Escape from Elba

Sports => Basketball => Topic started by: Administrator on July 30, 2018, 11:32:43 AM

Title: Knicks
Post by: Administrator on July 30, 2018, 11:32:43 AM
Discuss the Knicks chances this year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 30, 2018, 01:05:56 PM
At least 3 of them have a good chance of being turned away from a nightclub for being underaged.

Bon anniversaire, Frankly Bones. May your hard work pay off exponentially.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 30, 2018, 01:26:42 PM
Yikes.  I guess all past history just got wiped.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 30, 2018, 01:33:50 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 30, 2018, 01:26:42 PM
Yikes.  I guess all past history just got wiped.

Facil and BoD didn't get wiped, anywho. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 30, 2018, 01:37:47 PM
Hopefully the Search Feature will work better in this iteration.
The Past was always there, just largely inaccessible.
Title: Meanwhile...
Post by: chipstern on July 30, 2018, 01:38:00 PM
There was a YouTube posting about our Platinum Pup, Kevin Knox. 

At the conclusion, there was a picture of the coach/mentor Kevin has been working out with. 

ROD STRICKLAND.

Interesting, no?

Would indicate that he is still working really hard on his handle. 

Keep growing young man, keep growing. 

6'9"

6'11" would be sweet. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 30, 2018, 01:45:15 PM
Hoopshype had something about that, mentioning that Strickland is Kyrie's godfather (?), and connecting rather far apart dots I presume.

Melo continues to sound like a doofus.
His initial response to this Summer was he wouldn't take a buyout and wouldn't accept subsequently getting waived.  His pride was in his own way.  Coming off the bench is not on the table for him, because he doesn't consider team success, but just his own desire/want/self-estimation. 

Othersowise, glad they got this place back up and running.  I thought it might be down for weeks.
Title: Wubalubadubdub!
Post by: Kam on July 30, 2018, 02:24:09 PM
We out here.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 30, 2018, 03:21:36 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 30, 2018, 01:45:15 PM
Hoopshype had something about that, mentioning that Strickland is Kyrie's godfather (?), and connecting rather far apart dots I presume.

Melo continues to sound like a doofus.
His initial response to this Summer was he wouldn't take a buyout and wouldn't accept subsequently getting waived.  His pride was in his own way.  Coming off the bench is not on the table for him, because he doesn't consider team success, but just his own desire/want/self-estimation. 

Othersowise, glad they got this place back up and running.  I thought it might be down for weeks.

Perry got rid of his contract.  No way the team could move forward with such a me-Me-ME presence. 

Perry got back some decent assets: Kanter...Mudiay...Robinson. 

Melo heading where he wanted to be.  Knicks heading where we want them to be.

Kevin Knox and Timmy Hardaway will get to be the Alpha Dawgs while Kristaps is rehabbing.  Hezonja will get an opportunity to show what he's got under the hood with consistent minutes.  Kornet gets real minutes to make a case for himself both as a back-up center and a genuine NBA stretch-4.  Mitchell Robinson has the opportunity to make a case for himself as one of our BIGS of the future.  Enes Kanter will have an opportunity to be a dominant presence at the five-spot, an offensive focus in the blocks (and, God willing, like Embid, at long-range) and to demonstrate to Coach Fizdale and GM Perry's satisfaction that he can be more than a one-trick pony (well, two tricks, with low post scoring and an elite level of rebounding) and that he can evolve into a dependable defender and rim protector.  The PG scrum of Ntilikina-Burke-Mudiay will get to battle for minutes and survival.  While pups such as Dotson and Vonleh get to make a case for themselves as rotation players. 

Baby steps. 

Onwards.   
Title: We are all mere pups
Post by: Kam on July 30, 2018, 04:53:21 PM
Bunch of friggin newbies in here, just like the Knicks.

Title: Re: We are all mere pups OR TANKING DWEEBS
Post by: carlos123 on July 30, 2018, 05:54:53 PM
Quote from: Kam on July 30, 2018, 04:53:21 PM
Bunch of friggin newbies in here, just like the Knicks.

Bunch of newbies and at least one Tanking Dweeb, me for the coming season. I mean, play hard and lose hard too.

When the forum went down, did you guys get an error message mentioning “bad behavior”? I mean, I thought Chico had taken over the forum and kicked me out for “bad hombre”.  ;D
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 30, 2018, 06:42:04 PM
I saw something about a php command being out dated and deemphasized like the triangle offense and the GOP.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 30, 2018, 07:51:49 PM
............and the Obamas.
Title: Indy
Post by: chipstern on July 30, 2018, 08:40:03 PM
MSG replaying an early November game at the Garden where Knicks took on the Pacers. 

Occurred to me while taking it in, that both O'Quinn AND McDermott, and their back door game chemistry, are together again on the 2018-2019 Pacers. 
Title: Re: We are all mere pups OR TANKING WEEBS
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 30, 2018, 08:45:45 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on July 30, 2018, 05:54:53 PM
Quote from: Kam on July 30, 2018, 04:53:21 PM
Bunch of friggin newbies in here, just like the Knicks.

Bunch of newbies and at least one Tanking Weeb, me for the coming season. I mean, play hard and lose hard too.

When the forum went down, did you guys get an error message mentioning “bad behavior”? I mean, I though Chico had taken over the forum and kicked me out for “bad hombre”.  ;D

Damn - no IGGY function in the new room.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 30, 2018, 08:48:59 PM
Kid might find real thoughts are infiltrating his echo chamber.

The Pacers also grabbed Tyreke Evans for a very solid free agency. Does Nate have Reke play the 3? Does O’Quinn displace Young as a starter?

O’Quinn, Turner, Evans, Oladipo, and Collinson gives them an offensively versatile unit with double decker rim protection.
Title: Re: We are all mere pups OR TANKING WEEBS
Post by: Kam on July 30, 2018, 09:44:02 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 30, 2018, 08:45:45 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on July 30, 2018, 05:54:53 PM
Quote from: Kam on July 30, 2018, 04:53:21 PM
Bunch of friggin newbies in here, just like the Knicks.

Bunch of newbies and at least one Tanking Weeb, me for the coming season. I mean, play hard and lose hard too.

When the forum went down, did you guys get an error message mentioning “bad behavior”? I mean, I though Chico had taken over the forum and kicked me out for “bad hombre”.  ;D

Damn - no IGGY function in the new room.

Improved quote function - better visibility.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 30, 2018, 10:31:25 PM
Celts get ZIPPO for Abdel Nader.....

(player they received has been waived)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 30, 2018, 10:34:19 PM
Pacers

Collison, Oladipo, Bogdonavich, Young, Turner

But I'd sure be looking for Sabonis to challenge Young.
Title: Re: We are all mere pups OR TANKING DWEEBS
Post by: carlos123 on July 30, 2018, 10:47:13 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 30, 2018, 08:45:45 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on July 30, 2018, 05:54:53 PM
Quote from: Kam on July 30, 2018, 04:53:21 PM
Bunch of friggin newbies in here, just like the Knicks.

Bunch of newbies and at least one Tanking Dweeb, me for the coming season. I mean, play hard and lose hard too.

When the forum went down, did you guys get an error message mentioning “bad behavior”? I mean, I thought Chico had taken over the forum and kicked me out for “bad hombre”.  ;D

Damn - no IGGY function in the new room.

C'mon Chico, you love to read what I write. I know you're just pretending. Lo sé
Title: Porzingis on track to return by Kristmas
Post by: Kam on July 31, 2018, 12:33:59 AM
“He’s going to come back a different monster,” Sanders said in the installment. “His skills are more like a small forward. He was hard to deal with before, but he’ll be much harder to deal with after. He’s got the sense of urgency of a veteran going after his last contract.”
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 31, 2018, 12:36:44 AM
Workin out with Summer Sanders - that doesnt suck.

- always believed we would see Porzingis before midseason
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 31, 2018, 01:16:07 AM
No rush for KP.

I forgot about Sabonis. He could indeed start. It wouldn’t be a bad move.

With Evans on board, one of Collison or Bogdonovic is going to wind up coming off the bench.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 31, 2018, 04:21:50 AM
I was watching video of Vonleh playing perimeter D. He may not get a lot of steals or blocks, but he really gets low, hustles his ass off moving his feet while keeping balance and position.

With KP out for most or all of the year, our best lineup might be Robinson Vonleh Knox Hardaway Ntilikina. This isn’t an opening night starting group with the players being so raw, but it’s got key defensive standouts, guys who get shots off, who run in transition, who board and put back, and are better athletes than their size should permit, not that they’re not big for their positions.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 31, 2018, 05:03:34 AM
That team might be able to win a Championship . . . in Summer League.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Zupzup on July 31, 2018, 08:18:46 AM
Quote from: chipstern on July 30, 2018, 03:21:36 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 30, 2018, 01:45:15 PM
Hoopshype had something about that, mentioning that Strickland is Kyrie's godfather (?), and connecting rather far apart dots I presume.

Melo continues to sound like a doofus.
His initial response to this Summer was he wouldn't take a buyout and wouldn't accept subsequently getting waived.  His pride was in his own way.  Coming off the bench is not on the table for him, because he doesn't consider team success, but just his own desire/want/self-estimation. 

Othersowise, glad they got this place back up and running.  I thought it might be down for weeks.

Perry got rid of his contract.  No way the team could move forward with such a me-Me-ME presence. 

Perry got back some decent assets: Kanter...Mudiay...Robinson. 

Melo heading where he wanted to be.  Knicks heading where we want them to be.

Kevin Knox and Timmy Hardaway will get to be the Alpha Dawgs while Kristaps is rehabbing.  Hezonja will get an opportunity to show what he's got under the hood with consistent minutes.  Kornet gets real minutes to make a case for himself both as a back-up center and a genuine NBA stretch-4.  Mitchell Robinson has the opportunity to make a case for himself as one of our BIGS of the future.  Enes Kanter will have an opportunity to be a dominant presence at the five-spot, an offensive focus in the blocks (and, God willing, like Embid, at long-range) and to demonstrate to Coach Fizdale and GM Perry's satisfaction that he can be more than a one-trick pony (well, two tricks, with low post scoring and an elite level of rebounding) and that he can evolve into a dependable defender and rim protector.  The PG scrum of Ntilikina-Burke-Mudiay will get to battle for minutes and survival.  While pups such as Dotson and Vonleh get to make a case for themselves as rotation players. 

Baby steps. 

Onwards.

All looks good other than the PG situation (as I posted before re- Frank not looking like he will ever be more than a great promise...). That is a weak spot- where we'll need to improve via draft or trade. And needless to say will happily eat my hat on that one...
Title: Zup The Down Staircase
Post by: chipstern on July 31, 2018, 09:30:10 AM
I think our pups will benefit from a consistent system, unbridled competition, and team mates who can create their own shot. 

Worth noting that while Fizdale is willing to toss his pups into the deep end of the pool, to make their way and own their mistakes, Hornacek/Rambis basically abdicated player development.  Jack was a solid sender, and a positive presence, but Frank should've gotten more burn. 

I thought the difference between game 1 and game 2 of summer league was promising.  Frank needs to look for his own offense more often, though I thought it was interesting that when pressed, Coach Fizdale indicated that in terms of Ntilikina's development, he doesn't want to completely contradict Frank's base instincts and who he is as a player. 

A delicate balancing act. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on July 31, 2018, 10:14:37 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 30, 2018, 10:31:25 PM
Celts get ZIPPO for Abdel Nader.....

(player they received has been waived)

Payroll got lighter

It was a planned salary dump.

Nader was guarnteed $$, Purvis was not.

No room for Nader as Bird got 15th roster spot.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 31, 2018, 11:17:25 AM
I wish we traded for Rubio when available.
We would have some stability at PG.
Would make the whole team function better.
And we'd be further along.

Seems if you had someone on ignore previously, they are still on ignore in the new version, despite no explicit Ignore button. 
So I'm guessing you can go into your Profile Settings and add someone to Ignore from there.  But I haven't actually looked into it.



Title: Forum
Post by: Kam on July 31, 2018, 12:01:37 PM
It seems we lost some people or there are those that haven't made the switch to the new forum.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 31, 2018, 12:07:00 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 31, 2018, 11:17:25 AM
I wish we traded for Rubio when available.
We would have some stability at PG.
Would make the whole team function better.
And we'd be further along.

Seems if you had someone on ignore previously, they are still on ignore in the new version, despite no explicit Ignore button. 


Cool.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 31, 2018, 12:21:19 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 31, 2018, 11:17:25 AM
I wish we traded for Rubio when available.
We would have some stability at PG.
Would make the whole team function better.
And we'd be further along.

Seems if you had someone on ignore previously, they are still on ignore in the new version, despite no explicit Ignore button. 
So I'm guessing you can go into your Profile Settings and add someone to Ignore from there.  But I haven't actually looked into it.

Love Rubio.  Indeed. 

You are PRESUMING that the second-hand sources we were privy to were actually...correct. 

Ostensibly, the Wolves were willing to trade Rubio for Rose. 

Ostensibly, Phil Jackson was insisting on the Wolves adding Bjelica to the package. 

I'm not sure I buy into either scenario. 

Trades, that go down, it would seem, time and time again, are not played out in the media. 

Having said that, a great facilitator...a good rebounder and defender. 

A career .385 FG%.  Upped his efficiency considerably last season. 

Better team mates?  Better system?

Reminds me of the tears which flowed when Dolan put the kibosh on the Kyle Lowry deal, as if the Lowry who evolved under Coach Casey, would have done vaguely as well in our chaos oven. 

I'm happy with our current PG scrum. 

And if, God forbid, Kyrie Irving came available in the summer of 2019, well, que sera, Ricky Rubio. 

PS: I'm not feeling all that confident that Kyrie represents a real option for us.  Celtics are capable of getting to the NBA Finals.  Of course, Porzingis-Knox-Irving could make for a viable contender, but I do not see Irving leaving the Celtics. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 31, 2018, 12:25:03 PM
Knicks werent sure at the time if Rubio would be better for us than Rose.  Recall Derek was once very very good

When it became apparent we DID benefit from the deal, it was too late.

No, I dont believe Phil demanded Bjelica.  May have shown interest, sure.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 31, 2018, 12:26:36 PM
Chip - does Kyrie really want to live in Boston when he has his choice of......well...........the entire NBA nation pretty much?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on July 31, 2018, 12:57:43 PM
I'm not sure why KI wouldn't want to live in the Boston area, I suppose he could live on Nantucket or the Cape and jet to Logan and get to the TD Garden in about 30 minutes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 31, 2018, 01:06:45 PM
Chip was implying that having a shot at KI coming up is better than having had Rubio and having him still.

“I’m happy with our current PG scrum.”

Works for me as well.

Seasons’ first halves change people’s opinions and plans.

I’m just happy we have two solid guys who can defend our to the perimeter.

Waiting to see if Fizz spin has an actual engine behind it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 31, 2018, 01:11:43 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 31, 2018, 12:21:19 PM
 
You are PRESUMING that the second-hand sources we were privy to were actually...correct. 

Ostensibly, the Wolves were willing to trade Rubio for Rose. 
Ostensibly, Phil Jackson was insisting on the Wolves adding Bjelica to the package. 

I'm not sure I buy into either scenario. 
Trades, that go down, it would seem, time and time again, are not played out in the media. 

Lots of things leak out.
Allegedly Phil was holding out for an extra piece.  And Minny was unwilling.  Then just before deadline Phil finally agreed to the 1-4-1 Rose-Rubio swap but Minny was annoyed, had moved on, and said No.
That's what has been reported.

Not exactly verification, but Minny did subsequently expel Rubio and add Rose.

I'm no fan of Kyrie's.  But that's another discussion.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 31, 2018, 01:20:42 PM
https://sports.yahoo.com/jimmer-fredette-return-nba-160531208.html (https://sports.yahoo.com/jimmer-fredette-return-nba-160531208.html)

Jimmer and Team Fredette play semifinal Thursday 9 PM on ESPN
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 31, 2018, 01:26:00 PM
A Rockets fan twitter feed or somesuch speculates that HOU wants to trade Ryanderson's expiring for a longer contract belonging to a wing defender, to replace Ariza (and protects them from Melo's deficiencies, I'd add).

The 4 targets they came up with:
Quote
Bazemore, Courtney Lee, DeMarre Carroll, and Nic Batum were the targets we identified.

Batum would be a nice target and a realistic CHA salary dump.
DMC had a nice year for BKY, after an injury-plagued TOR stint.
Courtly fits in with the Rockets style, and it helps that he doesn't need lots of shots.  But why would the Knix take on Ryanders $20.4M?

Courtly and Lance for Ryan Anderson?
We'd get outside volume shooting while KZ is out.
And more importantly ditch $20M off next year's payroll.
have first crack at re-signing Ryan at a reasonable level if he fits in.
Gives HOU 2 wing defenders.  They have a few roster spots open (and should add a backup PG)  Edit: they added MCW.

I'd do it.
We had trouble finding value for Courtly last year.  Reportedly Knix were hoping to acquire a 1st rounder which nobody was willing to give, despite Courtly having a strong 1st half of the season.
He's a year older, so good deals aren't going to be easy to come by.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on July 31, 2018, 01:33:58 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 30, 2018, 10:34:19 PM
Pacers

Collison, Oladipo, Bogdonavich, Young, Turner

But I'd sure be looking for Sabonis to challenge Young.

I think this is it, although Reke will close a lot of games. Sabonis perhaps as well, although it's unclear if Myles/Sabonis on the court simultaneously is two-fifths of the Pacers' best lineup.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 31, 2018, 01:34:35 PM
Rockets Post-trade:
Chris Paul / Harden / MCW
Harden / Gordon / Gerald Green
PJ Tucker / Courtly
Melo / Lance
Capela / Nene

Basically, Lance replaces Luc M&M; Courtly replaces Ariza (sizing down a little there); and Melo replaces Ryan Anderson.
Side benefit: Melo already knows Courtly and Lance.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on July 31, 2018, 01:38:26 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 31, 2018, 01:26:00 PM
A Rockets fan twitter site or somesuch speculates that HOU wants to trade Ryanderson's expiring for a longer contract belonging to a wing defender, to replace Ariza (and protects them from Melo's deficiencies, I'd add).

The 4 targets they came up with:
Quote
Bazemore, Courtney Lee, DeMarre Carroll, and Nic Batum were the targets we identified.

Batum would be a nice target and a realistic CHA salary dump.
DMC had a nice year for BKY, after an injury-plagued TOR stint.
Courtly fits in with the Rockets style, and it helps that he doesn't need lots of shots.  But why would the Knix take on Ryanders $20.4M?

Courtly and Lance for Ryan Anderson?
We'd get outside volume shooting while KZ is out.
And more importantly ditch $20M off next year's payroll.
have first crack at re-signing Ryan at a reasonable level if he fits in.
Gives HOU 2 wing defenders.  They have a few roster spots open (and should add a backup PG)

I'd do it.
We had trouble finding value for Courtly last year.  Reportedly Knix were hoping to acquire a 1st rounder which nobody was willing to give, despite Courtly having a strong 1st half of the season.
He's a year older, so good deals aren't going to be easy to come by.

Courtly earns 13m next year, Lance has about 1m guaranteed, so it doesn't save us any money, it saves Houston $7m.  Not worth it for simply more shooting for a lottery bound team.

This deal makes no sense for the Knicks unless we are talking serious draft compensation. Similarly, don't see the Nets or Hawks biting. Hornets, maybe.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 31, 2018, 01:54:07 PM
Oh, I saw Lance listed as $7M for next year.
If we can bail on Lance for just $1M next year, then it isn't any help.
Also, I thought Anderson was expiring.  The article I read only mentioned his next year's salary, so I didn't check to see he had another year at $21M after that.
With 2 years left, it's just a bad contract we don't want.

Maybe they can flip Anderson to CHA for Batum's even more bloated 3 year deal.  Batum would be great for HOU.  He's been miscast as Scottie Pippen in CHA.  But as a 3rd or 4th option who can focus more on defense and facilitating, he'd be terrific.  If he stays healthy that is.
Batum is an upgrade over (the lost) Ariza.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 31, 2018, 02:00:50 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on July 31, 2018, 01:38:26 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 31, 2018, 01:26:00 PM
A Rockets fan twitter site or somesuch speculates that HOU wants to trade Ryanderson's expiring for a longer contract belonging to a wing defender, to replace Ariza (and protects them from Melo's deficiencies, I'd add).

The 4 targets they came up with:
Quote
Bazemore, Courtney Lee, DeMarre Carroll, and Nic Batum were the targets we identified.

Batum would be a nice target and a realistic CHA salary dump.
DMC had a nice year for BKY, after an injury-plagued TOR stint.
Courtly fits in with the Rockets style, and it helps that he doesn't need lots of shots.  But why would the Knix take on Ryanders $20.4M?

Courtly and Lance for Ryan Anderson?
We'd get outside volume shooting while KZ is out.
And more importantly ditch $20M off next year's payroll.
have first crack at re-signing Ryan at a reasonable level if he fits in.
Gives HOU 2 wing defenders.  They have a few roster spots open (and should add a backup PG)

I'd do it.
We had trouble finding value for Courtly last year.  Reportedly Knix were hoping to acquire a 1st rounder which nobody was willing to give, despite Courtly having a strong 1st half of the season.
He's a year older, so good deals aren't going to be easy to come by.

Courtly earns 13m next year, Lance has about 1m guaranteed, so it doesn't save us any money, it saves Houston $7m.  Not worth it for simply more shooting for a lottery bound team.

This deal makes no sense for the Knicks unless we are talking serious draft compensation. Similarly, don't see the Nets or Hawks biting. Hornets, maybe.

Correct you are. 

Anderson Trade makes zero sense unless Houston is willing to pony up draft picks. 

An considering that their pick would fall somewhere between 25-30, and we are saving them serious money, I'd think two #1 picks sounds about right. 

Having said that, why don't we simply get one of those printer guns and fire it repeatedly into our foot. 

Anderson is due 21 million dollars in 2019-2020. 

Yes, by all means, let's take away floor time from Kornet and dump our veteran leadership for a one-dimensional shooter who just turned 30, and pay him his bloated salary as opposed to signing a top free agent in 2019. 

Genius. 

PS: I do get tired, Tired, TIRED of the constant pissing upon Lance Thomas, whose defensive skill set and leadership and abillity to hit the odd three pointer (not unlike Trevor Ariza, no) is apparently not deemed sexy enough for Knick fans.  DUH. 

PPS: By all means, if Thomas and/or Lee could be moved ending contracts or cap space or draft picks, sure, why not...we're in rebuilding mode.  But Anderson was a lousy option in 2017, is a lousy option in 2018, and will be a fucking albatross in 2019...again, a good role player, a drop dead shooter, but motherfuckers complain about Hardaway and Noah's contracts?  Are you shitting me? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on July 31, 2018, 02:21:30 PM
http://www.espn.com/chalk/story/_/id/24245142/nba-first-league-betting-sponsor-deal-mgm (http://www.espn.com/chalk/story/_/id/24245142/nba-first-league-betting-sponsor-deal-mgm)

The NBA has become the first major U.S. sports league to sign an official betting sponsor.

On Tuesday, commissioner Adam Silver announced that the league struck a deal with MGM that will give the gaming company rights to use league highlights, names, logos and its direct data feed, as well as exclusively market itself as the official gaming partner of the NBA and WNBA.

Industry sources pegged the deal to be for three years and at least $25 million.

The next step for the Godfather is to get some of the vig.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on July 31, 2018, 04:01:56 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 31, 2018, 01:54:07 PM
Oh, I saw Lance listed as $7M for next year.
If we can bail on Lance for just $1M next year, then it isn't any help.
Also, I thought Anderson was expiring.  The article I read only mentioned his next year's salary, so I didn't check to see he had another year at $21M after that.
With 2 years left, it's just a bad contract we don't want.

Maybe they can flip Anderson to CHA for Batum's even more bloated 3 year deal.  Batum would be great for HOU.  He's been miscast as Scottie Pippen in CHA.  But as a 3rd or 4th option who can focus more on defense and facilitating, he'd be terrific.  If he stays healthy that is.
Batum is an upgrade over (the lost) Ariza.

Yes to all this. Batum is overpaid as a better-passing Ariza, and he brings in a bunch of extra question marks (Is he as willing as Ariza to be last on the pecking order offensively? Can he be consistent enough with the corner threes? Can he play any small-ball 4, if needed?). That said, Houston needs a roll of the dice, beyond simply signing Melo and James Ennis.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 31, 2018, 04:04:44 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 31, 2018, 01:34:35 PM
Rockets Post-trade:
Chris Paul / Harden / MCW
Harden / Gordon / Gerald Green
PJ Tucker / Courtly
Melo / Lance
Capela / Nene

Basically, Lance replaces Luc M&M; Courtly replaces Ariza (sizing down a little there); and Melo replaces Ryan Anderson.
Side benefit: Melo already knows Courtly and Lance.

Good stuff, though Fizz does state he likes Thomas.  Good glue guy all around who just cant provide offense at a good enough level.

Rockets like Zhou Qui as well.

Is Melo really a starter there?  Sure would keep him happy

https://houseofhouston.com/2018/07/26/houston-rockets-rotation-anthony/ (https://houseofhouston.com/2018/07/26/houston-rockets-rotation-anthony/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 31, 2018, 05:00:48 PM
Since it fits so well for HOU, I made a meek attempt to turn my Lance/Courtly trade into a 3-way.  About all I found was NYK gets Wes Mathews ($18M expiring).  And HOU would throw in 2 (late round) #1's to DAL for taking on Ryan Anderson.  Moving Wes would open room for Doncic to start.  And some extra late round picks to offset taking on Ryanderson's $21M next year (-- is that enough?)
Ryan replaces retired Dirk next year.

Wes turns 32 to start next season.
So maybe DAL was planning to re-sign him at a reasonable rate.
And he allows them to bring Doncic along slower.  But they threw Smith Jr into the starting fire last year.

Knix would swap Courtly's steadiness for Wes' 3's and effort.
Sort of a wash.  And we'd save Courtly's near $13M next year.
Court turns 33 to start next year, so we're not getting a 1st round pick for him.  Not too exciting for NY, but we'd get a comparable vet, and free up $13M in cap space for next year.  I wouldn't worry much about losing good soldier Lance.

Real good deal for HOU (imo)
Decent for DAL (if they aren't too attached to Wes and okay with Ryan)
Decent, mostly cap space move for NYK

Anyone in on the amended (not retarded) trade?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 31, 2018, 05:39:40 PM
Isaiah Hartenstein now with the Rockets as well

Just 21 but a stud.

G League -

6.6 boards, 1.1 blk in just 18 minutes per.

56/34/69 shooting
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 31, 2018, 05:54:17 PM
https://twitter.com/Jimmerosity/status/1024401814706241536 (https://twitter.com/Jimmerosity/status/1024401814706241536)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on July 31, 2018, 07:15:11 PM
I just got offered really cheap tickets (read: free) to see Jimmer play on Thursday night in Baltimore.  I'm not going to take them.  Kiid's right.  I'm not as fun as I once was.  20 years ago I'd jumped on them.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 31, 2018, 07:43:08 PM
It’s good Jimmer isn’t just letting himself go now that his NBA career is over. He may make it into the Big3 League one day.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 31, 2018, 07:53:59 PM
You deserve for Jimmer to be a 2019-20 Knick, with minutes

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 31, 2018, 08:05:01 PM
He did fine in Westchester but I think he makes more money in China.

Jamel Artis is with the Kings for two years partially guaranteed.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 01, 2018, 04:12:23 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 31, 2018, 08:05:01 PM
He did fine in Westchester but I think he makes more money in China.

Jamel Artis is with the Kings for two years partially guaranteed.

Whatsoever I think of Jimmer...I was always deeply offended by how Kurt Rambis treated him as a Knick when he got his call-up.  Went out of his way to publically mock him.  I was at a Garden game with Merciless; the fans were pulling for Jimmer, and he nailed a three as I recall.  His limitations notwithstanding, the kid worked hard in Westchester to improve his game.  Kurt Rambis was a smug douche, and I am glad that Mills jettisoned his ass and Hornacek's as well, the minute season ended.  Eliminating the last stench of Phil Jackson's uber alles. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 01, 2018, 05:13:24 AM
There was some talk that Jimmer had a star attitude, so he might have contributed to the problem.  But it does seem that our coaches often tend to be rather petty about things.  our players too -- such as Marbury jealous of the attention Frye received; Melo dissing Lin's coming out.  Knix specialize in self-inflicted problems.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on August 01, 2018, 09:40:01 AM
Jimmer ran himself out of every NBA stop because no coaches liked him. This one wasn't on the Knicks. There's really no reason to constantly come back to this issue.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 01, 2018, 10:12:30 AM
Quote from: chipstern on August 01, 2018, 04:12:23 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 31, 2018, 08:05:01 PM
He did fine in Westchester but I think he makes more money in China.

Jamel Artis is with the Kings for two years partially guaranteed.

Whatsoever I think of Jimmer...I was always deeply offended by how Kurt Rambis treated him as a Knick when he got his call-up.  Went out of his way to publically mock him.  I was at a Garden game with Merciless; the fans were pulling for Jimmer, and he nailed a three as I recall.  His limitations notwithstanding, the kid worked hard in Westchester to improve his game.  Kurt Rambis was a smug douche, and I am glad that Mills jettisoned his ass and Hornacek's as well, the minute season ended.  Eliminating the last stench of Phil Jackson's uber alles.

I saw Rambis at summer league.  Are you sure he is gone entirely?

(maybe he is with Lakers now........but he was right there, second row, in an official capacity)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 01, 2018, 12:16:27 PM
I hadn't thought of it before but wasn't Rambis basically a latter-day Phil.  Makes sense they'd find a connection.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 01, 2018, 12:59:37 PM
Lakers - yep

Considering hiring Rambis (Magic driven) for bench or front office.  Some scribes hate the idea, citing NY problems.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 01, 2018, 01:32:39 PM
Lends credence to the idea that the Lakers are building a cluster fuck around LeBron. However it works, it will be entertaining.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 01, 2018, 01:39:14 PM
Yeah.....

Likely I wont watch as much LAL this year.

Like some others.........MAVS, especially.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 02, 2018, 03:14:22 PM
I take this to mean you think Rondo will beat out Ball for the starting job and for starter’s minutes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 02, 2018, 04:10:19 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 02, 2018, 03:14:22 PM
I take this to mean you think Rondo will beat out Ball for the starting job and for starter’s minutes.

Luke Walton has his work cut out for him. 

LeBron

Rondo, Deng, Beasley, Stephenson, McGee

Ball, Ingram, Kuzma, Caldwell-Pope/Hart, Wagner

That's 12. 

Good luck with Pup Development or divining a rotation that keeps everyone involved, everyone happy. 

So, are we to assume LeBron is down with the Pups, or is he going to favor aged in oak vets? 

Stay tuned. 
Title: Draft Day Mulligan
Post by: chipstern on August 02, 2018, 04:14:53 PM
Meanwhile, having tried a similar approach for years, the Knicks double down on Pups. 

I like Mortiz Wagner's game; he impressed during the run up to the Final Fours. 

Be interesting to see if the Lakers end up with a case of buyer's remorse. 

Mortiz instead of Robinson. 

Russell instead of Porzingis.

[Cough] Ball...instead of Tatum. 
Title: Jimmer Is 29 And Counting
Post by: chipstern on August 02, 2018, 05:06:26 PM
https://nypost.com/2018/08/02/the-jimmer-fredette-show-is-back-but-its-getting-sadder/ (https://nypost.com/2018/08/02/the-jimmer-fredette-show-is-back-but-its-getting-sadder/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 02, 2018, 06:29:58 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 02, 2018, 03:14:22 PM
I take this to mean you think Rondo will beat out Ball for the starting job and for starter’s minutes.

I like Rondo

If this is the case I see a 27-25 type split, at worst for Lonzo.  They can certainly play together a stretch but only if each is effective.

Makes little sense for Ball to not push 30+ minutes as the season goes
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 02, 2018, 06:31:15 PM
Did he say DENG?

I dont think so
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 02, 2018, 06:32:08 PM
Hart will be pushing for starter minutes

Rondo with the most to prove.
Title: Re: Jimmer Is 29 And Counting
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 02, 2018, 06:37:54 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 02, 2018, 05:06:26 PM
https://nypost.com/2018/08/02/the-jimmer-fredette-show-is-back-but-its-getting-sadder/ (https://nypost.com/2018/08/02/the-jimmer-fredette-show-is-back-but-its-getting-sadder/)

Thanks for the reminder.  9 PM - feature game - ESPN

“I’ve always been pretty confident in my abilities to play the game and that if I get an opportunity to play consistently and be a part of team, then I feel like I’ve always been able to produce,” Fredette, the tournament’s leading scorer, told The Post this week in a phone interview. “And it’s great to be able to show that again.”

Every bucket Fredette drills brings back memories of his stellar college career, when he burst past overmatched Mountain West Conference defenses and redefined 3-point range.



As Jimmer recently said, the NBA has changed of late to fit his style.  All options open for 2019-20 or sooner

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 02, 2018, 08:53:25 PM
Re:  overmatched Mountain West defenses....

Like this ganme vs Kawhi Leonard SDSU:

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/game?gameId=310260252 (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/game?gameId=310260252)

Jimmer gets 43 on 24 shots

Kawhi 22 on 20

I assume Mr Leonard was out there defensively as well
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on August 02, 2018, 09:28:36 PM
Post some Jeff Fryer box scores!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 02, 2018, 09:55:54 PM
Rough go thus far - down 11

Fraschilla raving about the players' ability in this game
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 03, 2018, 01:47:45 AM
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23825970/zach-lowe-basketball-tournament-nba-crunch
An article about an idea to stop the game at the 4 minute mark, and the first team to get 7 points more than the score of the leading team wins. 

It's an odd proposal designed to eliminate fouling.
What I find interesting is I often do that during a game.  When it gets down to 3 or 4 minutes left with a lead of 5 or whatever, I often think that the leading team just needs to reach xxx points and they'll win.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on August 03, 2018, 04:46:43 AM
If Lee, Thomas, and Noah retired at once would they be missed at all? Please go! What was the plan, senior leadership in the play-offs?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 03, 2018, 10:59:31 AM
Udonis Haslem: @shannonsharpe84 keeping it a trillion on this one. Let me just make this clear. I don’t got no issues with Draymond Green but what I will say is now a days people be talking crazy on that court. I’ve heard disrespect from men towards other men that people know they wouldn’t say on the streets. If u ain’t bout that or ready to get it in when u see the man you disrespected then just play ball and kill him with your game. I don’t promote violence but I also don’t promote disrespecting another man. If you ain’t, u never know when u gon have to hang that 2pc up!!!👊🏾😂😭🤣 #og

Well said by Haslem
Title: Re: Draft Day Mulligan
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 03, 2018, 11:04:02 AM
Quote from: chipstern on August 02, 2018, 04:14:53 PM
Meanwhile, having tried a similar approach for years, the Knicks double down on Pups. 

I like Mortiz Wagner's game; he impressed during the run up to the Final Fours. 

Be interesting to see if the Lakers end up with a case of buyer's remorse. 

Mortiz instead of Robinson. 

Russell instead of Porzingis.

[Cough] Ball...instead of Tatum.

Still a great pick

I dont think LeBron wins a title with just any PG.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Zupzup on August 04, 2018, 11:28:18 AM
Putting aside (which is never easy) the Trump trolling, the Lebron interview on CNN, a long form session that make me respect him much more. He has as much to "lose" as MJ always had, but he goes for it. And keeps his cool. Powerful.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 04, 2018, 03:57:50 PM
Uh.................what?

So....

LaVar Ball says LBJ can win with his three kids and a fierce rebounder

Love this guy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 04, 2018, 04:35:10 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 04, 2018, 03:57:50 PM
Uh.................what?

So....

LaVar Ball says LBJ can win with his three kids and a fierce rebounder

Love this guy.

No surprise. He’s as empty of all but hot air as the rest of your fetishes.

Maybe LA can sign Lou Amundson to complete their quintet. I hear he’s not to busy.
Title: LaVar
Post by: carlos123 on August 04, 2018, 04:38:00 PM
LaVar Ball 2020

Endorsed by Chico Cartero, aka kiid

MOGA, Make Outrageous(ness) Great Again.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 04, 2018, 05:52:01 PM
Deng does not want to get shelved in LA again.

Loul Deng for Tim Hardaway straight up. It gives us a super clean cap in 2020, as Deng has 2 years left at 18 per, compared to Timmy’s 3. Lakes need more floor spreading and floor running. We could use more up front vets.

Kornet Kanter Mitchell Noah
Vonleh Deng Porzingis
Knox Hezonja Thomas
Lee Dotson
Burke Ntilikina Mudiay
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 04, 2018, 06:10:09 PM
Sure - book it

Give them 2 second rounders as well, as they surely see the game we are playing

Frank can then get 35 minutes at the 2

heh
Title: Re: We are all mere pups OR TANKING WEEBS
Post by: josh on August 04, 2018, 07:38:09 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 30, 2018, 08:45:45 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on July 30, 2018, 05:54:53 PM
Quote from: Kam on July 30, 2018, 04:53:21 PM
Bunch of friggin newbies in here, just like the Knicks.

Bunch of newbies and at least one Tanking Weeb, me for the coming season. I mean, play hard and lose hard too.

When the forum went down, did you guys get an error message mentioning “bad behavior”? I mean, I though Chico had taken over the forum and kicked me out for “bad hombre”.  ;D

Damn - no IGGY function in the new room.

You have but to log into your former screen name and all your old ignores will be back in place.

I will attempt to return that function if I get broader abilities than I have now. Wouldn't want you to have to be exposed to alternate perspectives.
Title: Re: We are all mere pups OR TANKING WEEBS
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 04, 2018, 08:26:03 PM
Quote from: josh on August 04, 2018, 07:38:09 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 30, 2018, 08:45:45 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on July 30, 2018, 05:54:53 PM
Quote from: Kam on July 30, 2018, 04:53:21 PM
Bunch of friggin newbies in here, just like the Knicks.

Bunch of newbies and at least one Tanking Weeb, me for the coming season. I mean, play hard and lose hard too.

When the forum went down, did you guys get an error message mentioning “bad behavior”? I mean, I though Chico had taken over the forum and kicked me out for “bad hombre”.  ;D

Damn - no IGGY function in the new room.

You have but to log into your former screen name and all your old ignores will be back in place.



Its blocked

Thats OK - I'm good.  Multiple iggys secured.
Title: Re: We are all mere pups OR TANKING DWEEBS
Post by: carlos123 on August 04, 2018, 09:41:57 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 04, 2018, 08:26:03 PM
Quote from: josh on August 04, 2018, 07:38:09 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 30, 2018, 08:45:45 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on July 30, 2018, 05:54:53 PM
Quote from: Kam on July 30, 2018, 04:53:21 PM
Bunch of friggin newbies in here, just like the Knicks.

Bunch of newbies and at least one Tanking Dweeb, me for the coming season. I mean, play hard and lose hard too.

When the forum went down, did you guys get an error message mentioning “bad behavior”? I mean, I though Chico had taken over the forum and kicked me out for “bad hombre”.  ;D

Damn - no IGGY function in the new room.

You have but to log into your former screen name and all your old ignores will be back in place.



Its blocked

Thats OK - I'm good.  Multiple iggys secured.

That's funny, only about 6 of us posting here. I guess you read only your own posts, well maybe yours plus boZ's.

Like Josh said very well:

Quote
Wouldn't want you to have to be exposed to alternate perspectives.

LOL
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 04, 2018, 10:00:33 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 04, 2018, 06:10:09 PM
Give them 2 second rounders as well, as they surely see the game we are playing


They are trading short salary for current production. We offer no picks. If they don’t like it, we walk away.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 04, 2018, 10:30:12 PM
oh wait - you were serious?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 04, 2018, 11:09:40 PM
I'm not a Tim Jr fan, but that's kinda crazy talk. 
Firts off, it would make more sense to move aging Courtly.
Then we have no G's capable of replacing Tim's scoring (except maybe Burke who seems best as a backup PG).
I really don't like the idea of moving an asset for nothing.
We did that with TyC, Shump, JEarl.  It makes the building process harder. 

The Lakes already have KCP at SG.
You could trade Tim for KCP, but why would the Lakes do that?
LAL need some steady players around LeBJ, not more erratic performers like Hardaway.  Maybe I'm wrong, but on-court isn't Hardaway turning into JEarl? -- an erratic bomber who can get hot and play inattentive D.  And LBJ has seen enough of playing with JEarl.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 04, 2018, 11:15:58 PM
Speaking of Mr Smith, I am hearing HOU has interest

When you get a chance check out JRs line vs Golden State in the Finals during championship year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 04, 2018, 11:35:25 PM
JEarl has had some good games and stretches (so has Tim).
JEarl was a more talented player than Tim, while many of his flaws were of the character and self-inflicted variety.  From what I gather, Tim Jr is a genuine hard-worker.

You can match JEarl's good GS series with the playoffs where JEarl was out night-clubbing late and played like ish for the Knickers.
Hard to know when JEarl will show up, and it's becoming less frequent as he ages.

Not sure I get HOU's interest.
JEarl as Eric Gordon insurance?
Maybe Melo put in a good word.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 04, 2018, 11:42:01 PM
They seek a wing defender.   Yeah, he'd be on the court plenty.

Not sure when Melo will be.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 05, 2018, 12:08:41 AM
https://sports.yahoo.com/m/eff6d86f-14b2-3335-bf0c-2cab5cc97610/ss_espn-projects-celtics-to.html (https://sports.yahoo.com/m/eff6d86f-14b2-3335-bf0c-2cab5cc97610/ss_espn-projects-celtics-to.html)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: josh on August 05, 2018, 12:29:37 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 05, 2018, 12:08:41 AM
https://sports.yahoo.com/m/eff6d86f-14b2-3335-bf0c-2cab5cc97610/ss_espn-projects-celtics-to.html (https://sports.yahoo.com/m/eff6d86f-14b2-3335-bf0c-2cab5cc97610/ss_espn-projects-celtics-to.html)

Looks stupid to me, Kiid.

Even if one assumed that they "should have been" a 51 win team in 2017-18, the notion that adding Gordon Hayward will only add 2 games to that total seems bizarre, if one also assumes a full year for Kyrie and any growth for their rookies from last year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 05, 2018, 12:57:10 AM
Disagree

You arent simply adding Hayward

You add Hayward and subtract (player x)

Same formula with Kyrie minutes.  Someone who was quite effective gets bounced.

Just 240 player minutes in a game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 05, 2018, 01:03:35 AM
I think there is opponents improvement to consider as well
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 05, 2018, 01:09:18 AM
Hawks sign Alex Len

2 years 8.5
Title: Team direction
Post by: 11to89 on August 05, 2018, 01:21:42 AM
Just a basic comment that I'm pleased to see the Knicks' youth movement. I suppose time will tell which players develop as NYK mainstays, but regardless of next year's record, at least there's the impression of a new start and the hope of a logical potential future direction.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 05, 2018, 05:59:28 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 04, 2018, 11:09:40 PM
I'm not a Tim Jr fan, but that's kinda crazy talk. 
Firts off, it would make more sense to move aging Courtly.
Then we have no G's capable of replacing Tim's scoring (except maybe Burke who seems best as a backup PG).
I really don't like the idea of moving an asset for nothing.
We did that with TyC, Shump, JEarl.  It makes the building process harder. 

The Lakes already have KCP at SG.
You could trade Tim for KCP, but why would the Lakes do that?
LAL need some steady players around LeBJ, not more erratic performers like Hardaway.  Maybe I'm wrong, but on-court isn't Hardaway turning into JEarl? -- an erratic bomber who can get hot and play inattentive D.  And LBJ has seen enough of playing with JEarl.

We have Lee, Mario, Dotson, Mudiay and Frank as functional shooting guards if we move Tim.

While it’s true that the Lakes have KCP and Hart at SG, they are moving as quick as they can into win now mode. This makes Deng’s contract, as useless to them as JoNo’s is to us, a big problem for LA. While expensive, Hardaway is far from useless. With all of LA’s playmakers, Hardaway’s skill set could be a valuable option as someone to get the ball to out in transition, on cuts, or from deep.

We’re not especially focused on winning now. Deng would be a good vet for both Knox and Vonleh to learn from. Adding Deng also gives us 3 major expiring deals to shop or eat the season after in JoNo, Deng, and Lee. We can use that 48 million in cap ballast to attack the market during the 2019 season before 2020 FA season gets started or use the space available in summer 2020 to make moves.

There is zero chance Deng gets run behind LBJ, Kuzma, and Wagner. There is a decent chance Timmy can keep pace with Hart and KCP and thereby carve out some minutes.

Mario at power forward is like Jimmer in the NBA, way out of his depth and in over his head. It’s not a position I want Knox playing at this point. Deng gives us another guy behind Vonleh and Thomas to man the spot ahead of Kevin & Mario while at the same time opening more minutes for those two on the perimeter in more natural positions.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on August 05, 2018, 06:08:57 AM
I'd trade THJr for Wesley Matthews, an expiring contract and savvy veteran who would get enough PT to be credible in the locker room. The main reason would be I think THJr is taking up too much cap space over the remaining years of his contract.

But I wouldn't do it for Deng without the Lakers first this year. Deng's extra year is basically worth a first rounder because that's what it will take to ditch him. And, as Bo explained, he doesn't really offer enough on the court. I much prefer holding on to Timmy. (Also, the Lakers would prefer cap space to taking on a contract)

There's a lot to like about THJr. I'd be fine building through the draft and not targetting big fish in free agency, in which case keeping him makes some sense, even at the unfortunately inflated price. But if you think the Knicks have a shot at blue chip FA, trading THJr is a worthwhile so you can at least make a pitch at Kyrie-Butler or some such combo.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 05, 2018, 06:23:58 AM
In a Matthews for THJ trade we’d have to give a pick or other asset to balance the deal.

DJ, Barnes, Doncic, THJ, Smith is a very interesting starting 5.

36 million over two years is a lot of salary to shed.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 05, 2018, 10:14:23 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 05, 2018, 06:23:58 AM
In a Matthews for THJ trade we’d have to give a pick or other asset to balance the deal.
36 million over two years is a lot of salary to shed.

Wes will be 32 to start next year; Tim just 26.
We wouldn't need to add an asset.
it's just if they like Tim and we are ready to move on.

If we did such a deal, I'd want a follow-up deal in which we move Wes or Court.  Tim at least in theory takes some of the scoring pressure off of KZ.  Though maybe Burke and Knox can step up(?)

Dallas has an new and somewhat odd starting lineup and a rather  iffy bench. Right now looks like they'd start a Eurook, a 2nd year PG, ancient Dirk, along with DeAndretheGiant and good under-the-radar Barnes.  Not bad but a bit shaky and needs time to marinate.
Then their bench seems to be Dwight Powell, Barea, and aging notgimpybutnotfullyhealthy again Wes.  And a bunch of mystery guys including one from China's restive Far West.
Hmm, I didn't know Brunson (2nd round rook) was born in New Brunswick, NJ.  Lived in Cherry Hill til he was 12.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 05, 2018, 10:45:20 AM
I'd be willing to flip Courtly +  ??  for Wes' expiring.
Give the Mavs a choice of Lance or Baker (or even Muddy, in my view).
We'd only be saving Courtly's next season $13M.
DAL get Courtly for next year (while Doncic learns the NBA), and a useful bench player, preferably Lance).

Certainly not exciting, but we'd allow Tim another year to find himself, move Courtly's money, while Wes is a comparable vet wing.  Also free up a roster spot by tossing in one of Lance/Baker/Mud.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on August 05, 2018, 11:38:16 AM
Sure, I'd do that as well. But I think Dallas would be less likely to do so than to acquire THJr, even with the extra year. THJr is much more appealing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 05, 2018, 01:34:12 PM
Maxi Kleber is a solid player for Dallas.

I also like the potential of Collinsworth and Yanhuang

Certainly one of the teams I am interested in watching when they are on
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 05, 2018, 01:43:23 PM
How about a contest -

Hardaway had 46 double digit efforts last year

He had 18 20+ point tallies

He had 5 games with 30+

(bear in mind this was over just 57 games)


So, make your picks for 2018-19

double digits - 20 and over - 30+


I will say 68 - 35 - 5

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 05, 2018, 02:17:11 PM
With KZ out and then likely returning slowly from Jan 1st on, Tim Jr. should be our primary scorer.  So the number of double digit games or 20 point outings is less important than his FG%, shot selection, efficiency, FT rate, etc.

If you do see DAL, let us know how things mesh.
Some Q's:
Can Barnes take over the leadership role?
Can Doncic have a smooth transition?
 (I think he'll be very up and down in terms of play and minutes).
Can Smith Jr. reign in his wildness?
Can anyone get lobs to DeAndre?
Can the bench hold its own or not suck?
Can Dirk stay healthy and competitive?
Title: Likewise...
Post by: chipstern on August 05, 2018, 02:31:46 PM
"With all of LA’s playmakers the Knicks point guards, Hardaway’s skill set could be a valuable option as someone to get the ball to out in transition, on cuts, or from deep."

Ah, the dawg days of summer...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 05, 2018, 02:58:21 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 05, 2018, 02:17:11 PM
With KZ out and then likely returning slowly from Jan 1st on, Tim Jr. should be our primary scorer.  So the number of double digit games or 20 point outings is less important than his FG%, shot selection, efficiency, FT rate, etc.

If you do see DAL, let us know how things mesh.
Some Q's:
Can Barnes take over the leadership role?
Can Doncic have a smooth transition?
 (I think he'll be very up and down in terms of play and minutes).
Can Smith Jr. reign in his wildness?
Can anyone get lobs to DeAndre?
Can the bench hold its own or not suck?
Can Dirk stay healthy and competitive?

FT%?  Hardaway?

heh - lol

Efficiency?  Do you like or hate PER?

I will say THJ hits a career high next year
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 05, 2018, 03:11:58 PM
If holding Hardaway spoils our starphucking expoditions, it could be a blessing in disguise long term, pushing the opening of our contention window back to 2021 or 2022, but ultimately making it more sustainable with homegrown talent getting a chance to mature together into major roles.

Title: Re: Likewise...
Post by: facilitatorn on August 05, 2018, 03:16:53 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 05, 2018, 02:31:46 PM
"With all of LA’s playmakers the Knicks point guards, Hardaway’s skill set could be a valuable option as someone to get the ball to out in transition, on cuts, or from deep."

Ah, the dawg days of summer...

Charlie Ward likes our point guards.

http://nypost.com/2018/08/04/ex-knicks-guard-sees-trait-that-can-make-kevin-knox-a-star/ (http://nypost.com/2018/08/04/ex-knicks-guard-sees-trait-that-can-make-kevin-knox-a-star/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 05, 2018, 03:34:11 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 05, 2018, 03:11:58 PM
If holding Hardaway spoils our starphucking expoditions, it could be a blessing in disguise long term, pushing the opening of our contention window back to 2021 or 2022, but ultimately making it more sustainable with homegrown talent getting a chance to mature together into major roles.

Let me set this straight - as it appears you are quite easily swayed....

There has been no thought of salary dumping Tim Hardaway.  Hardaway is seen as a piece of the puzzle in our return to being a playoff team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 05, 2018, 03:51:44 PM
Seeing things again?

Try less turpentine in your coffee
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 05, 2018, 04:38:08 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 05, 2018, 03:11:58 PM
If holding Hardaway spoils our starphucking expoditions, it could be a blessing in disguise long term, pushing the opening of our contention window back to 2021 or 2022, but ultimately making it more sustainable with homegrown talent getting a chance to mature together into major roles.

Where will Porzingis be then?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 05, 2018, 04:48:04 PM
Starting center, all-star caliber, middle of a big contract, deep in the playoffs, healthy, happy, a Knick hopefully.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 05, 2018, 04:55:26 PM
I think we can get into the Wizards of the past few seasons, i.e. 4-6 seed + short postseason, with Tim as the 5th starter or guard-wing off the bench paying what we pay him if many other things break right.

If he improves incrementally under Fizz, he could be a decent deal in year 3 and 4.

He’s sort of a backcourt ZBo, in terms of how you want to deploy him on what sort of teams.
Title: Moving Forward
Post by: chipstern on August 05, 2018, 06:28:55 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 05, 2018, 03:16:53 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 05, 2018, 02:31:46 PM
"With all of LA’s playmakers the Knicks point guards, Hardaway’s skill set could be a valuable option as someone to get the ball to out in transition, on cuts, or from deep."

Ah, the dawg days of summer...

Charlie Ward likes our point guards.

http://nypost.com/2018/08/04/ex-knicks-guard-sees-trait-that-can-make-kevin-knox-a-star/ (http://nypost.com/2018/08/04/ex-knicks-guard-sees-trait-that-can-make-kevin-knox-a-star/)

Yes, I saw that piece.  Was very lifted by Ward's insights about KK's father and his spiritual/athletic pedigree. 

Charlie was very undervalued as a Knick.  His (and Houston's) evangelical predilections rubbed many Knicks fans the wrong way, and he was not the second coming of Tiny Archibald/Tim Hardaway Sr. offensively. 

But over time he became a dependable three point shooter, and was an effective facilitator, defensive stalwart and one tough little motherfucker (if one might characterize a 6'3" Heisman winning quarterback as...little). 

I have shared this particular story countless times, but it bears repeating.  I will always cherish my memory of Ward establishing position just to the right of the paint, a few feet above the baseline, and fearlessly holding his ground while absorbing an offensive foul from Shaquille O'Neal, who had built up a full head of steam, and simply obliterated Charlie. 

Who got the call. 

"If holding Hardaway spoils our starphucking expoditions, it could be a blessing in disguise long term, pushing the opening of our contention window back to 2021 or 2022, but ultimately making it more sustainable with homegrown talent getting a chance to mature together into major roles."

GETTING A CHANCE TO MATURE TOGETHER. 

I am in no rush to expedite, nor to preclude the process, by rushing headlong into the free agent scrum, a la Donnie Douche Bag deconstructing our roster, and jettisoning all of our assets and youth in a pyrrhic pursuit of LeBron and Melo. 

There is something to be said for a stable, patient, purposeful path forward, step by step, inch by inch.  Obviously, Brad Stevens and  Danny Ainge deployed more than just youth and draft picks, but they did not unduly rush things, stockpiled assets, and at key junctures in the process, added veteran free agents and made trades that rebounded in their favor, as their young players matured and blossomed together in Coach Stevens' purposeful, forward-thinking modern system. 

As an acolyte of Pat Riley, David Fizdale projects a nice combination of charm and toughness, and while supportive of his youth, and something of a charmer therein, one never loses sight of the fact that he DEMANDS ACCOUNTABILITY and as he is wont to assert, I AIN'T GIVING NOBODY NOTHING--THEY HAVE TO EARN IT. 

As such, defense, Defense, DEFENSE. 

Are defenders made or are defenders born?

Debate amongst yourself. 

Still, one thing which seems manifestly demonstrable to me, is that on a very fundamental level, DEFENSE REPRESENTS A SHARED COMMITMENT. 

So the fact that in Robinson, Ntilikina and Porzingis (let alone, until further notice, Thomas, Lee and Noah) we have a cadre of long, tall, big wingspan YOUNG athletes with a genuine defensive pedigree and enormous upside, bodes well moving forward for players such as Kanter, Hardaway, Knox, Hezonja and Burke, who are genuinely gifted offensively, but have a considerable amount to prove on the defensive end of the ball, both individually and as a coherent collective.  If sharing is caring on offense--ball movement and good screens, cutters and movement and motion, IT IS EVEN MORE CRITICAL ON DEFENSE.  For years the Knicks have been seemingly committed to complicated, infuriating help schemes, where there was less emphasis placed on man a mano responsibilities.  Of course help, having your brother's back, is critical to any successful, coherent defensive scheme, but it starts with personal responsibility, and physical commitment to getting over screens and making even the most gifted offensive juggernauts work, and WORK HARD for everything they get, and to pay a physical price in terms of no layups, no EZ Pass lines through the paint, and the cumulative effect of how fatigue factors in come the fourth quarter. 

If our defense is keying our offense, as was the case under Holzman, Riley and Van Gundy, and if our young points can reflect the toughness and efficiency and leadership shown by the likes of Frazier and Ward, be our 2018-2019 Knicks a playoff or lottery team, and if the Knicks fans can chant DE-FENCE and have it translate on the court to EFFORT and TENACITY, I will consider myself well-served as a fan. 

As for all of these schemes regarding salary cap space, I respect where some of you are coming from, but speaking only for myself, I do not give a tinker's damn. 

If we are able to reel in good young #1 and #2 picks from the draft, and offer one max contract in 2019-2020, I will consider myself well-served. 

However, let me make it perfectly clear, that I AM NOT MARRIED TO THE INSTANT GRATIFCATION OF A FREE AGENT. 

The right player, the right skill set, the right age, the right position, the right commitment?  All for it.  Al Horford?  A veteran game changer for the Celtics. 

But, if as Facil suggests, we are destined to move forward with what we have, and perhaps forced to suck it up and wait for Lee and Noah and Thomas's contracts to expire, then SO FUCKING BE IT. 

PS: And as a footnote, while Mills and Perry have not tipped their hands regarding possible trades, buyouts, stretch provisions, etcetera, it is my sincere hope that...and I mean this...we retain all of our vets unless a deal comes along that is so advantageous it simply knocks our socks off.  Our youth needs the benefit of veteran mentoring; Thomas for Knox, Hezonja and Vonleh; Lee for Hardaway and Dotson and Ntilikina and Mudiay and Trier; and in particular, NOAH for Kanter and Porzingis and Robinson and Kornet.  While Noah has struggled with health issues, his original contract was ill-conceived, and the chemistry between him Coaches Hornacek and Rambis was unfortunate on both sides, it is worth remembering what a dominating defensive presence, and rebounder, gifted passer and opportunistic pick and roll/screen man he was in his salad days.  Looking at a defensively challenged talent such as Kanter and the intoxicating raw clay that is Mitchell Robinson, it makes a world of sense to me, to afford them the benefit of Noah's heady, teamwork/oriented experience as a top-tier defender.  People need to stop obsessing over his contract.  Fuck it.  That train has long left the station. And given, $18.5-19.3 million is a considerable sum to pay for a back-up center/player-coach, but again, what's done is done, and I fail to see the desperate race to divest ourselves of his contract.  We can always stretch him and open up a roster spot in 2019-2020, or perhaps, having re-established his value as a role player to a contender, entertain a trade with in the final year of his expiring year of his contract.  There is not need to demonize Noah for being a dubious signing, nor to bite our fucking nose to spite our face.  Anyway, I am in a distinct minority here, but I would love to see Mitchell Robinson have the benefit of Noah leaning on his ass in practice for one full season, and mentoring him in the finer MENTAL ASPECTS of being a defensive presence above and beyond his palpable athletic gifts, much as Kevin Knox can only benefit from career role-player/defensive stalwart Lance Thomas showing the uber-talented big wing how to make an enduring impact as something more than an offensive weapon, but as a fully rounded, multi-dimensional leader. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 05, 2018, 06:47:22 PM
"We can always stretch him......"

Ahhhhm fuck - you lost me there, pal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 05, 2018, 07:19:27 PM
From little snips of video, it looks like Noah is adjusting his approach by developing something like a basketball player’s jump shot.

I’m getting used to the idea that at this point, we cut Baker, add Kadeem Allen to the D-League and go to war.

Kanter Kornet Noah KP
Vonleh Thomas Mitchell
Knox Hezonja
Hardaway Lee Dotson
Ntilikina Burke Mudiay

Hicks Trier, one at at time till KP is healthy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 05, 2018, 07:43:05 PM
Noah has one of the stranger jump shots I've ever seen.  Too much palm of his hand; weird reverse rotation. 

I admire Ron Baker, and his work ethic. 

But we are loaded with ball-handler/facilitators (Ntilikina, Mudiay, Burke)

And we are loaded with big and medium sized wings (Hardaway, Lee, Dotson, Trier, Knox, Hezonja]. 

If Noah would ACCEPT a role with the Knicks, for spot minutes in the rotation, based on the expectation that he might often be supplanted by Robinson as the season wore on (the accumulation of fouls factoring in significantly here), and with the expectation that Mitchell could join both Vonleh and Kornet, Hezonja and Thomas in rotations at the four depending on whether we are going big or small, that to me would be a positive. 

Theoretically, Kanter could be part of that scrum at the 4 with Robinson, though he would have to dramatically step up his mid-long range shooting to merit such a role.  Seems counter-productive to me.  Would rather see Kanter AND Noah man the 5, and allow Kornet and Robinson to vector between the 5 spot and the stretch 4 (Robinson HAS jump shooting range). 

I agree with Facil that I should rather see Knox concentrate on the 3-spot until his body matures, adds some muscle mass and lower body strength, and learns the ins and outs of being bodied and physically challenged, as he was in that game against the Lakers.  With time, he will be fine, but in the short term, why feed him to the beasts; plenty of time to man up when he fills out physically.  In the short term, his evolution would seem more along the lines of a wing such as Kevin Durant (we should be so lucky), as opposed to a big like Kevin Garnett or Anthony Davis (who significantly, shares a trainer with Mitchell Robinson, and contributed to his evolution as a workout partner). 

Be curious how Hezonja fits at the 4-spot, and I'll need to be convinced on that front, but he is an older player, who has grown into his adult body, so let him and Lance Thomas absorb the wangs and bangs at the 4, and supplement Knox with Lee, Hardaway and Dotson at the 3. 

Anyway, what, two months till autumn beckons, the dog days of summer give way to the bittersweet colors of autumn, and we can stop speculating as to what we have, and where we are moving going forward. 

My God, an actual-factual rebuild. 

PS: I do hope that Fizdale and Perry are open to the notion of tapping in to the battle tested experience of such Knicks icons as Allan Houston, Charlie Ward, Latrell Sprewell, Walt Frazier, Earl Monroe, Dick Barnett, Bill Bradley, Willis Reed and Larry Johnson.  Not just for nostalgia's sake, but for the sake of identifying those aspects of the game and team play which were best exemplified by our championship teams and those of our perennial contenders.  I regret that Anthony Mason has left the arena, as I should very much have liked for him to have baptized Vonleh, Knox and Hezonja. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: NormaMigrooniug on August 05, 2018, 09:11:49 PM
 
   bosch    (https://remontbosch.com)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 05, 2018, 10:55:34 PM
Re:  Baker

You have to give him the opportunity to show what he has now that he is healthy

I cant say he will be worse than all those guys.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 05, 2018, 11:10:28 PM
I expect the Baker situation to clear up at least a couple of weeks before the regular season starts.

Hezonja is Historically bad at defending the post. Vonleh, Thomas, Mitchell, Kornet, and Knox before Hezonja at power forward. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 05, 2018, 11:34:17 PM
Best lineup right now has Kanter at the 4 defensively.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 06, 2018, 12:12:34 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 05, 2018, 02:58:21 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 05, 2018, 02:17:11 PM
With KZ out and then likely returning slowly from Jan 1st on, Tim Jr. should be our primary scorer.  So the number of double digit games or 20 point outings is less important than his FG%, shot selection, efficiency, FT rate, etc.

FT%?  Hardaway?
heh - lol

Efficiency?  Do you like or hate PER?

Read again.

FT Rate.
FG%
PER is mostly an offensive rating, so overvalues scorers who don't defend and undervalues defenders who don't score.  And of course doesn't capture anything outside of the box score (screens, deflections, nice cuts, ball movement that doesn't generate an assist, double teams, good def. rotations, etc)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 06, 2018, 02:48:15 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 05, 2018, 11:34:17 PM
Best No lineup right now has Kanter at the 4 defensively.

FIFY.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on August 06, 2018, 08:45:32 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 06, 2018, 02:48:15 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 05, 2018, 11:34:17 PM
Best No lineup right now has Kanter at the 4 defensively.

FIFY.

Thank you
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 06, 2018, 11:26:09 AM
Quote
Alex Kennedy: Trevor Booker is nearing a deal with the Shanxi Brave Dragons of the Chinese Basketball Association, according to league sources.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on August 06, 2018, 01:51:30 PM
latest NBA o/u win totals

Jeff Sherman, manager of the Westgate Las Vegas SuperBook, posted season win totals on Twitter on Sunday, and the two-time defending champion Golden State Warriors unsurprisingly lead with 62.5 projected wins. The Boston Celtics have the second-highest win total at 57.5, followed by the Houston Rockets, Philadelphia 76ers and Toronto Raptors at 54.5 wins each.


https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2018/08/05/nba-win-total-projections-westgate-superbook-warriors-rockets-lakers/911468002 (https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2018/08/05/nba-win-total-projections-westgate-superbook-warriors-rockets-lakers/911468002)


Atl 23.5
Bos 57.5
Brk 32.5
Cha 35.5
Chi 27.5
Cle 30.5
Dal 34.5
Den 47.5
Det 37.5
GS 62.5
Hou 54.5
Ind 47.5
LAC 35.5
LAL 48.5
Mem 34.5
Mia 41.5
Mil 46.5
Min 44.5
NO 45.5
NY 29.5
OKC 50.5
Orl 31.5
Phi 54.5
Phx 28.5
Prt 41.5
Sac 25.5
SA 43.5
Tor 54.5
Uth 48.5
Wsh 44.5
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 06, 2018, 02:38:03 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 06, 2018, 12:12:34 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 05, 2018, 02:58:21 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 05, 2018, 02:17:11 PM
With KZ out and then likely returning slowly from Jan 1st on, Tim Jr. should be our primary scorer.  So the number of double digit games or 20 point outings is less important than his FG%, shot selection, efficiency, FT rate, etc.

FT%?  Hardaway?
heh - lol

Efficiency?  Do you like or hate PER?

Read again.

FT Rate.
FG%
PER is mostly an offensive rating, so overvalues scorers who don't defend and undervalues defenders who don't score.  And of course doesn't capture anything outside of the box score (screens, deflections, nice cuts, ball movement that doesn't generate an assist, double teams, good def. rotations, etc)

You said efficiency

So you want to make that an "in your eyes" assessment, where you can make shit up about Hardaway, his help d, his "cuts", etc. (and gloss over what Clyde and others say about him)

You act like Hardaway is that dick at the Y we all hate - the guy who just asks for the ball, never gives back and stands around if he doesnt get it.

And by scoffing at stats you can say pretty much whatever you want.

Well, have at it for another year, pal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on August 06, 2018, 03:33:57 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on August 06, 2018, 01:51:30 PM
latest NBA o/u win totals

Atl 23.5
Bos 57.5
Brk 32.5
Cha 35.5
Chi 27.5
Cle 30.5
Dal 34.5
Den 47.5
Det 37.5
GS 62.5
Hou 54.5
Ind 47.5
LAC 35.5
LAL 48.5
Mem 34.5
Mia 41.5
Mil 46.5
Min 44.5
NO 45.5
NY 29.5
OKC 50.5
Orl 31.5
Phi 54.5
Phx 28.5
Prt 41.5
Sac 25.5
SA 43.5
Tor 54.5
Uth 48.5
Wsh 44.5

Damn, we’re only fifth!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 06, 2018, 03:52:34 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 06, 2018, 11:26:09 AM
Quote
Alex Kennedy: Trevor Booker is nearing a deal with the Shanxi Brave Dragons of the Chinese Basketball Association, according to league sources.

Better be for a lot of cash...

I like Booker over Mario - and we did have interest.

Tells me MGT are not as desperate at the 4 as fans would say.

Plans for Noah/Kanter?  Could be.

Expectations of Porzingis back by New Year?  Yes, that too.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on August 06, 2018, 04:21:31 PM
I'd have preferred Booker to Vonleh, but not Mario.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 06, 2018, 05:08:47 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on August 06, 2018, 04:21:31 PM
I'd have preferred Booker to Vonleh, but not Mario.

Trevor is 6'8" and 30 years old.  We already have the 6'8" Hezonja. 

Hell, we could have kept Beasley. 

Vonleh will be 23 later this month. 

6'10" 240 pounds. 

Consistent with exploring notions of youth with possible upsides. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fueE0QWQgxc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fueE0QWQgxc)

This was an interesting cameo, in a losing effort for the Bulls from last March.

Vonleh with four three pointers.  Pretty smooth stroke. 

Proving?  Very little.  He was 18-for-60 overall with the Bulls. 

But a big, springy, powerful body.  Free throw shooting has been up and down over a paltry 15.5 minutes a game in four seasons. 

However, his rebounding has shown a steady uptick, almost 7 a game for the Bulls in 21 games over 19 minutes. 

We shall see.  Seems like a reasonable roll of the dice, allowing Fizz to toss in a big body against beefier power forwards, and concentrate on Knox at the 3, which would allow Hezonja time at the 3 and even at the 4 when matchups permit...of course, he will have to evolve his defense considerably to be an option at the 4. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 06, 2018, 05:12:52 PM
Mario is a Sg-sf. He isn’t all that important.

Vonleh is a legit PF/ small ball C. If Fiz can get real growth out of Vonleh we have a much more competitive team than expected. Booker would have been good, but I think Vonleh moves the needle more.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 06, 2018, 05:35:35 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 06, 2018, 05:08:47 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on August 06, 2018, 04:21:31 PM
I'd have preferred Booker to Vonleh, but not Mario.

Trevor is 6'8" and 30 years old.  We already have the 6'8" Hezonja. 



Havent seen much of Booker, have you?

My guess is he sought a 2-year deal

OK with me if this is why we passed - but he'd have made us better this year, no doubt.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 06, 2018, 06:20:10 PM
Booker is probably looking to be an available UFA next year when the cap jumps. If so, the money is better in China and he still has the chance to join a team in spring, possibly one on track for a playoff spot where injuries have opened up minutes for a versatile forward.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 06, 2018, 06:35:22 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 06, 2018, 05:12:52 PM
Mario is a Sg-sf. He isn’t all that important.

Vonleh is a legit PF/ small ball C. If Fiz can get real growth out of Vonleh we have a much more competitive team than expected. Booker would have been good, but I think Vonleh moves the needle more.

Booker might indeed have been a more impactful player. 

However these are not the Knicks of Kidd, Camby, KT and Wallace.  We had a winning season and made it to the playoffs, where the wheels came off as the most significant person on the floor, Jason Kidd, finally exhausted his mojo. 

The idea, again, is not to milk another 5-7 short term wins out of our team, but to create a winning SUSTAINABLE culture, albeit with the knowledge that fielding such a tadpole team is going to lead to a goodly number of beatdowns in the short term, least ways until (and likely, thereafter) KP returns. 

Again, not to beat a dead horse, but what exactly are we debating here: BOOKER IS THIRTY YEARS OLD.  What's the point?  Booker brings nothing to this team that we do not already have, especially with a capable role player in Lance Thomas, who is also 30, also 6'8", albeit with a bigger body, and--IRONICALLY--a genuine threat from three-point range, significantly better than from 2-point range.  Booker brings nothing in that regard. 

2015-2016: .404%

2016-2017: .447%

2017-2018: .403%

I will be very curious to see how Mario responds to Fizdale's system.  Perry was obviously very invested in the kid. 

He is a very skilled player.  However, he is certainly not a complete player on the defensive end, and I too wonder how he would match up with real NBA power-forwards.  I'm not seeing it. 

Fizz is milking that position-less cow. 

We shall see. 
Title: Biz's Fave
Post by: chipstern on August 06, 2018, 06:44:18 PM
One of Biz's favorite players, PF-C Greg Monroe, signed on with the Raptors for the Vet's Minimum.

How the mighty have fallen.  Might actually be a good landing spot for Monroe.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 06, 2018, 07:04:10 PM
Thomas isnt Booker

This guy is a bull.  More like a less talented Kanter with a mean streak.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 06, 2018, 07:15:37 PM
I think Vonleh and Mitchell will provide all the Bookerness we need. I agree that Lance has a much different style and role.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 06, 2018, 11:03:33 PM
Robinson's playing G League
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 07, 2018, 12:08:20 AM
Agree with Chip.
I was interested in Trev Book when he was with UTA.  He is a bull.
Good role player.  A Quincy Acy type.

I keep going back to the KZ injury.
If KZ was healthy Booker and his vet beef might help the bench, bring toughness we lost with KOQ's departure, make hustle plays.

As it is, wins are not important next year.
Lance can fill in at PF.  Kornet too.  Knox some.  Hezonja can be tried,
There are options and KZ will return.

Perry Fizz have decided to go all in on dumpster diving trying to see if any young players who have been cast off can actually play this game.  Trey Burke looks like a legit backup PG.  Though we'll see if he can keep up his torrid pace on horrid mid-rangers.

I'm concerned we have too many reclamation projects (Burke, Mud, Zonja, Vonleh) combined with the uncertainty of Noah and the inconsistency of draftees (Frank & Knoxville & Robinson).
It's good to have some steady performers.

Courtly for one.  Kanter too, I guess.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 07, 2018, 12:20:42 AM
As for Tim Jr., I hope he looks at this as more a team and doesn't think this is his chance to be The Man, the #1 Option and go to it.  Because I don't think he can handle that at all.
He probably should shoot more, but needs to work within the system and not be greedy.

As for that earlier stuff.
I was pointing out that I didn't say FT % for Tim.  I said FT rate and FG %.  That's largely what I was thinking of when I mentioned efficiency.

I wasn't thinking of PER.
Also: +/-.  Shot selection. Turnovers and steals.
Can add assists and rebounds, which do factor into PER.

My discourse on PER was in general terms.  I'm not judging Tim on defensive rotations or cutting (though that would be nice).
I do judge him on defending his man, dealing with screens, getting burned backdoor when inattentive.

I won't be too hard on Tim Jr because he will be in the wrong role for the first half of the season, on a very hastily patched together team which will likely have minimal chemistry and a new system to learn. 

It would also be nice to see how young vet Hardaway plays if he had a genuine starting quality PG next to him.  I know he likes Burke and they know each other, but Burke is a scorer and weak defender.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 07, 2018, 02:55:16 AM
I think Tim will stick around as an improving then reliable vet. His contract makes him hella hard to move and though his production and productiveness will improve, his next deal won’t be as large as his current one.

It’s going to be easier to get Mitchell minutes at the 4 than the 5 this year and probably next year as well because he’s a very skinny kid. He moves well enough to cover power forwards and still provide weakside defebsive help.

Glad Frank is getting some National team ball in prior to the season
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 07, 2018, 05:15:12 AM
I think Tim is overpaid, but don't think he'd be too hard to move.  There are about 10 good SG's and then a drop off to many guys who are okay and/or have significant question marks (KCP, A Very, Lou Williams, LaVine, Barton, Smart, Reke, Waiters, Fournier).  Tim slips right among them.

LaVine 4/ $19.5M per
Fournier 3/ $17M per
Smart  4/ $52M ($13M ave)
Barton 4/ $54M ($13.5M ave)
Waiters 3/ $40M ($13M ave)
Reke, KCP & Bradley all signed 1 year $12M contracts hoping to cash in next year.

The newer contracts tend to be a little lower as the market has tightened.  Contracts from before, like Tim's and Fournier's, are a little pricier.  So probably Tim should be priced around $14M instead of his $18M ave.  can't say I like anyone on that list more than Tim, except maybe KCP.  And A Very if he is healthy and can get back to form.  But I like defenders with some offensive chops more than offenders with limited D.

One thing is that not that many teams need an SG, unlike previous years.  So that makes Tim  a bit harder to move.  Lot of SG young blood has arrived (Mitchell, Booker, Jaylen, Harris).  BUT NYK doesn't have a big need to move Tim anyway.  Likely to wait another year and see how/if he develops.

Here's a Hoopshype article ranking the Top 30 SG's
https://hoopshype.com/2018/08/06/nba-projections-top-30-shooting-guards-klay-thompson-james-harden/
They don't mention Courtly or Hardaway.  But one of them is our starting SG.
Title: Re: Biz's Fave
Post by: thebizneverloses on August 07, 2018, 05:21:34 AM
Quote from: chipstern on August 06, 2018, 06:44:18 PM
One of Biz's favorite players, PF-C Greg Monroe, signed on with the Raptors for the Vet's Minimum.

How the mighty have fallen.  Might actually be a good landing spot for Monroe.

We've been through this before. I was the one who was adamant we don't sign Monroe. Nagel was the one loved the idea of signing him.

Last I really advocated for Monroe was when he came out of college.

Incidentally, while he was the most talented big left on the market, I think it was curious that Toronto signed him. I thought Bebe was a better fit, although Monroe is definitely cheap insurance should JV get hurt.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on August 07, 2018, 05:23:28 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 06, 2018, 07:15:37 PM
I think Vonleh and Mitchell will provide all the Bookerness we need. I agree that Lance has a much different style and role.

I wanted Booker as much for the off-court stuff as on-court production. Too many kids, even in a rebuilding year, isn't ideal. Would have preferred one more grown up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 07, 2018, 11:06:26 AM
Really for vet presence and toughness, I would have liked to have kept KOQ, who signed with IND for 1/$4.5M (Ron Baker money!).

If we move Courtly (if there is a market for him), we'd be down to role player Lance as a vet; disgruntled Noah as another.
Kanter and Tim as 26 year old young vets.
Maybe we need Courtly's voice.  Seems he was more vocal last year.

We have an awful lot of yute and reclamation projects who could use structure and vet guidance.  Sometimes just understanding the right approach -- mental/physical preparation -- can help a young player improve.  Seems we're leaving a lot of this on Fizz and his staff, without much lockerroom support.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 07, 2018, 12:20:33 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 07, 2018, 05:15:12 AM
I think Tim is overpaid, but don't think he'd be too hard to move.  There are about 10 good SG's and then a drop off to many guys who are okay and/or have significant question marks (KCP, A Very, Lou Williams, LaVine, Barton, Smart, Reke, Waiters, Fournier).  Tim slips right among them.

LaVine 4/ $19.5M per
Fournier 3/ $17M per
Smart  4/ $52M ($13M ave)
Barton 4/ $54M ($13.5M ave)
Waiters 3/ $40M ($13M ave)
Reke, KCP & Bradley all signed 1 year $12M contracts hoping to cash in next year.

The newer contracts tend to be a little lower as the market has tightened.  Contracts from before, like Tim's and Fournier's, are a little pricier.  So probably Tim should be priced around $14M instead of his $18M ave.  can't say I like anyone on that list more than Tim, except maybe KCP.  And A Very if he is healthy and can get back to form.  But I like defenders with some offensive chops more than offenders with limited D.

One thing is that not that many teams need an SG, unlike previous years.  So that makes Tim  a bit harder to move.  Lot of SG young blood has arrived (Mitchell, Booker, Jaylen, Harris).  BUT NYK doesn't have a big need to move Tim anyway.  Likely to wait another year and see how/if he develops.

Here's a Hoopshype article ranking the Top 30 SG's
https://hoopshype.com/2018/08/06/nba-projections-top-30-shooting-guards-klay-thompson-james-harden/
They don't mention Courtly or Hardaway.  But one of them is our starting PG.

No Knicks PG in their top 30 either

Nets have TWO - and Ball is #16, ahead of Smith and a few other good ones.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 07, 2018, 12:45:08 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 07, 2018, 11:06:26 AM
Really for vet presence and toughness, I would have liked to have kept KOQ, who signed with IND for 1/$4.5M (Ron Baker money!).

If we move Courtly (if there is a market for him), we'd be down to role player Lance as a vet; disgruntled Noah as another.
Kanter and Tim as 26 year old young vets.
Maybe we need Courtly's voice.  Seems he was more vocal last year.

We have an awful lot of yute and reclamation projects who could use structure and vet guidance.  Sometimes just understanding the right approach -- mental/physical preparation -- can help a young player improve.  Seems we're leaving a lot of this on Fizz and his staff, without much lockerroom support.

OQuinn wasnt staying.  Wanted to play for a better team.

Not sure Noah comes in disgruntled this year

I think a good staff provides enough guidance.  And sometimes vets can stink up a joint as well.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 07, 2018, 01:49:07 PM
I guess the losing got to KOQ.
Good pickup for INDy

And obviously I meant one of Tim/Courtly was our SG, but mistakenly typed PG.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 07, 2018, 09:02:07 PM
The losing combined with the log jam. I feel like Vonleh can become a suitable replacement even if he doesn’t block many shots.

The question now is can Fizdale really instill what he preaches?

I want to see these guys come into preseason looking jacked and all working their asses off on both ends.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 07, 2018, 10:36:45 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 07, 2018, 09:02:07 PM
The losing combined with the log jam. I feel like Vonleh can become a suitable replacement even if he doesn’t block many shots.

The question now is can Fizdale really instill what he preaches?

I want to see these guys come into preseason looking jacked and all working their asses off on both ends.

Nothing is given.

But right now we have...

Three true veterans: Noah [33], Lee [32], Thomas [30]

Two young veterans Kanter [26], Hardaway [26]

Three young back court players on the cusp: Burke [25], Baker [25]

A sophomore vying for rotation minutes and a two way player looking to step up: Dotson [24], Hicks [24]

Two upstart Euros and an undrafted big: Porzingis [23], Hezonja [23], Kornet [23]

Two former high lottery picks looking to make a better second impression: Vonleh [22], Mudiay [22]

A two-way player who fell out of the draft: Trier [22]

Three tantalizing puppies looking to make a significant impact: Robinson [20], Nitilikina [20], Knox [19]

FIFTEEN PLAYERS between 19-26. 

Porzingis healing. 

Hicks and Trier looking at G-League.

Baker fighting for his Knicks life.

Noah and Lee suspended in limbo. 

PLENTY OF COMPETITION AT EVERY POSITION.

There should be a camp full of fiercely motivated pups looking to make a good impression on Coach Fizdale. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 07, 2018, 11:18:29 PM
I sure hope so. Signs are good so far.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 08, 2018, 01:19:28 AM
29.5 Wins
Here we come
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 08, 2018, 02:51:28 AM
Zhaire Smith out with a Jones Fracture.

So I click around to see what a Jones fracture exactly is, and it sounds exactly like the pain I've ben having the past 4 weeks in the middle outside part of my left foot.  I was hoping it was just a tissue bruise as if someone had stepped on my foot.  but I didn't remember anything happening like that.  Actually I can play fine, but quasi-limp around when walking.  Guess I need an Xray.  Might as well get my Big Toe zapped as well, since it has had some pain for the past 2 years and just seems to never heal. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 08, 2018, 03:03:56 AM
Christmas Day Games
LaLa @ GSW
OKC  @ HOU
'6ers @ BOS
POR  @ UTA
MIL   @ NYK

We're obviously the least compelling team out there and it looks like they had trouble scrounging up an interesting matchup for us.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 08, 2018, 04:07:56 AM
Bo, I hope you get your wheels patched and take your spinning and winning to another gear.

JoNo has made of himself part of the spectacle of Venice Beach. Anyone surprised?

He might be in great shape with some sort of jumper...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 08, 2018, 08:44:19 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 08, 2018, 04:07:56 AM
Bo, I hope you get your wheels patched and take your spinning and winning to another gear.

JoNo has made of himself part of the spectacle of Venice Beach. Anyone surprised?

He might be in great shape with some sort of jumper...

I would really like for J-Noah to be part of this re-tooling.  He could be a profound influence on Kanter, Kornet and especially Robinson. 

And for Coach Fizdale, attempting to finally, FINALLY, inculcate an authentic post-Holzman/Riley defensive culture, I mean, come on. 

The contract is what the contract is...time to let go and see if we cannot finally derive some value from Noah's presence, and reclaim his value as an asset, for us, for him, moving forward.  You just KNOW he is motivated.  Would be a damn shame to simply jettison him and see him make a solid contribution to another team, when he could be playing a role in improving our's. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 08, 2018, 12:53:18 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 08, 2018, 02:51:28 AM
Zhaire Smith out with a Jones Fracture.

So I click around to see what a Jones fracture exactly is, and it sounds exactly like the pain I've ben having the past 4 weeks in the middle outside part of my left foot.  I was hoping it was just a tissue bruise as if someone had stepped on my foot.  but I didn't remember anything happening like that.  Actually I can play fine, but quasi-limp around when walking.  Guess I need an Xray.  Might as well get my Big Toe zapped as well, since it has had some pain for the past 2 years and just seems to never heal.

Fifth mtetatarsal fractures:

http://www.aofas.org/footcaremd/treatments/Pages/Fifth-Metatarsal-Fracture-Surgery.aspx (http://www.aofas.org/footcaremd/treatments/Pages/Fifth-Metatarsal-Fracture-Surgery.aspx)

Up to a  15-20% chance of a refracture - and healing can depend on the shape of one's foot.  Wow, that's a load of uncertainty for Mr Smith.

The Jones itself:

Zone 2 fractures are typically known as Jones fractures. They occur at the intersection between the base and the shaft of the fifth metatarsal (figure 1). These fractures are known to have a higher chance of not healing (nonunion). They are also at risk of refracture even after healing. Surgical treatment is commonly performed for these fractures.

If I have a zone 2 fracture of the base of the fifth metatarsal, will I jeopardize my chance of bone healing if I try nonoperative treatment first?
A:  Most of these breaks will go on to heal after 12 weeks with appropriate treatment. The nonunion rate of these fractures may still be as high as 15 to 20 percent. A fracture that fails to heal and is painful may require surgical repair. The surgery can be more difficult at that point and can require a bone graft.


Foot surgery in general:

Metatarsals: There are five long bones in the foot which serve as bony struts between the toes and the midfoot. Some metatarsal fractures can be treated without surgery, but displaced fractures may benefit from surgery. Sometimes two or more metatarsals can be fractured as a result of a significant injury. The repair involves an incision over the fractured metatarsal. Additional incisions may be necessary for multiple fractures. The fractures are fixed with pins, screws or a plate, or combination.

Potential complications of foot fracture surgery include wound breakdown, failure of the fracture to heal (nonunion), fracture healing in a bad position (malunion), loss of fracture alignment prior to healing, implant failure, persistent pain, loss of motion and arthritis.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 08, 2018, 12:56:50 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 08, 2018, 03:03:56 AM
Christmas Day Games
LaLa @ GSW
OKC  @ HOU
'6ers @ BOS
POR  @ UTA
MIL   @ NYK

We're obviously the least compelling team out there and it looks like they had trouble scrounging up an interesting matchup for us.


YES!!!!!!!

Love my Christmas hoops.  Should be at least 4 excellent games  :)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 08, 2018, 01:20:16 PM
Apparently one problem with a Jones Fracture is it's located in a zone between two blood watersheds, so it's rather a low blood flow area, which limits healing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on August 08, 2018, 02:35:43 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 08, 2018, 03:03:56 AM
Christmas Day Games
LaLa @ GSW
OKC  @ HOU
'6ers @ BOS
POR  @ UTA
MIL   @ NYK

We're obviously the least compelling team out there and it looks like they had trouble scrounging up an interesting matchup for us.

San Antonio at Toronto would have been better than either of the last two games.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 08, 2018, 02:58:32 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 08, 2018, 01:20:16 PM
Apparently one problem with a Jones Fracture is it's located in a zone between two blood watersheds, so it's rather a low blood flow area, which limits healing.

Feel better homes. 

Meanwhile, the Sixers' First Rounder Curse continues. 

Odd.  Quite odd. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 08, 2018, 04:52:48 PM
Noel and Okafor can still play - not sure about a jinx.

I think when drafting guys younger and younger you always run the risk......

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 08, 2018, 05:17:11 PM
I think Saric was the last Philly rook to come right in and play, and even he took another season in Europe. The Sixers seem to have a pretty good behind the scenes Monstar training program. It could help more than it hurts Smith down the line.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 08, 2018, 05:49:55 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on August 08, 2018, 02:35:43 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 08, 2018, 03:03:56 AM
Christmas Day Games
LaLa @ GSW
OKC  @ HOU
'6ers @ BOS

San Antonio at Toronto would have been better than either of the last two games.

Good call.

I hadn't thought of it, but each of the first three premier games have a player meeting an old team or old nemesis.
LeBJ is an old GSW foe on a new team
Melo flipped from OKC to HOU
And BOS/PHI has the questionable Fultz/Tatum (+a #1) swap.

So Kawhi meeting his old team would fit with the theme.
And would be more dramatic than all but LeBron v. GSW.

I wonder why they chose to have the favored team play at Home.
A reward for being a top team?

I imagine the League hopes KZ returns on or before Xmas.
The past few years the Knix, even with weak teams, has been a solid first half of the season team, only to flame out spectacularly later.  Hard to see that happening again, especially without KZ, but it's surprised me a few years running.  Lotta new players and totally new coaching staff.  NBA has to hope Knix aren't a disaster heading into the New Year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on August 08, 2018, 09:35:44 PM
ESPN reporting Knicks want to stretch Noah next month.

That's pretty dumb. Some, like Chip and Kiid, really want to see him suit up. I just don't him on the books entering the next decade. Buying him out makes much more sense than stretching him. And if you stretch him, stretch him next summer.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 08, 2018, 09:53:40 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on August 08, 2018, 09:35:44 PM
ESPN reporting Knicks want to stretch Noah next month.

That's pretty dumb. Some, like Chip and Kiid, really want to see him suit up. I just don't him on the books entering the next decade. Buying him out makes much more sense than stretching him. And if you stretch him, stretch him next summer.

Have to explain that further.
Title: Re: Noah
Post by: carlos123 on August 08, 2018, 09:56:47 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on August 08, 2018, 09:35:44 PM
ESPN reporting Knicks want to stretch Noah next month.

That's pretty dumb. Some, like Chip and Kiid, really want to see him suit up. I just don't him on the books entering the next decade. Buying him out makes much more sense than stretching him. And if you stretch him, stretch him next summer.

For the record, I also want to see him suit up, see what he's got. If nothing, buy him out next year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 08, 2018, 10:32:04 PM
I’m down to let him come to camp and make his case where it matters.

The dropping Trou episode may have been a play by JoNo to get his situation resolved in time to latch on with another team.

13 mil relief next year and a 7 mil hit in two years when the cap is pegged to rise that much before gaming revenue is factored in. If it feels like he’d make a wave, set him free.

If he were playing right it would be nice to have him, but the roster doesn’t need him by any means.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on August 09, 2018, 06:54:32 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 08, 2018, 09:53:40 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on August 08, 2018, 09:35:44 PM
ESPN reporting Knicks want to stretch Noah next month.

That's pretty dumb. Some, like Chip and Kiid, really want to see him suit up. I just don't him on the books entering the next decade. Buying him out makes much more sense than stretching him. And if you stretch him, stretch him next summer.

Have to explain that further.

Stretching him now, with two years left on his contract, means we will be paying him 20% of his remaining total salary owed over each of the next five years, which will hurt our ability to attract free agents in 2020 and 2021. Not smart. I don't want him on the books past the 2019-2020 season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 09, 2018, 11:01:20 AM
They are saying September 1 is a key date - as far as the money works

One article said we "save 12.9 mil on the cap" but doesnt specify for when.  Would that be usable immediately in a deal where we take on money? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 09, 2018, 12:18:35 PM
Looks like Ryan Anderson may be on his way to the HEAT.

James Johnson or Tyler Johnson rumored to be the target as HOU still cant get Bazemore
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 09, 2018, 12:35:42 PM
I don't think Heat have changed one player from last season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on August 09, 2018, 01:05:20 PM
knicks should not stretch noah in september and still have 6 million of him on their books for 3 years.  Noah isn't going to give any money back to NY.  he isn't a stupid man.

you can always  stretch him if you need to BUT lesser players have been moved if a pick is included.  some distant heavily protected pick for an expiring deal.

that could save much more towards 2019.

that assumes anyone wants NY's money.

we won't know that for quite a while.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 09, 2018, 02:04:38 PM
Quote from: Nagel on August 09, 2018, 01:05:20 PM
knicks should not stretch noah in september and still have 6 million of him on their books for 3 years.  Noah isn't going to give any money back to NY.  he isn't a stupid man.

well, Knix can just hold on to his contract for 2 years and not play him.  He'll be 34 by then and his NBA career likely over after not playing for almost 3 years. 

Likely he would take a buyout at a slightly reduced rate, because he can get a $2M vet min (or whatever it is for a guy with his years), and he'd be able to pick which team to join.  he could be a backup on a contender.

So Knix have a little leverage and Noah has some incentive to drop at least $2M per year to divorce.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on August 09, 2018, 02:13:00 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 09, 2018, 02:04:38 PM
Quote from: Nagel on August 09, 2018, 01:05:20 PM
knicks should not stretch noah in september and still have 6 million of him on their books for 3 years.  Noah isn't going to give any money back to NY.  he isn't a stupid man.

well, Knix can just hold on to his contract for 2 years and not play him.  He'll be 34 by then and his NBA career likely over after not playing for almost 3 years. 

Likely he would take a buyout at a slightly reduced rate, because he can get a $2M vet min (or whatever it is for a guy with his years), and he'd be able to pick which team to join.  he could be a backup on a contender.

So Knix have a little leverage and Noah has some incentive to drop at least $2M per year to divorce.

not sure any team is going to give him 2 million after sitting for 2 years.  i think NY would try the buyout route but if I am  Noah i say no thanks.  just give me my money.  once they stretch him he can sign anywhere that will have him.  he can' t be happy with NY management .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 09, 2018, 02:34:00 PM
Knix don't have to stretch him.
That's the leverage.
They can derail another year of his dwindling career.
And another 2 years if they want to.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 09, 2018, 03:02:58 PM
Buyouts effect team bottom lines, but not salary cap implications. Our concerns are not with the real dollars, but with the cap. Mills and Perry have had a lot of time to interact with Noah and to discuss his predicament with Fizz. The rumor seems to be that the collective decision is that regardless of money, having Noah around would be detrimental to the development of the team. Knicks don’t want him & nobody will take him at what he’s paid.

With buyouts making no difference, Knicks choices are if and when to stretch

No stretch = $18.5 M in 2018, $19 M in 2019

Stretch before 9/1 = $7.5 M in 2018, $7.5 M in 2019, $7.5 M in 2020, $7.5 M in 2021, $7.5 M in 2022

Stretch between 9/1 and next season = $18.5 M in 2018, $6.4 M in 2019, $6.4 M in 2020, $6.4 M in 2021

If the Knicks want to keep Noah around to preserve flexibly to the very last second while at the same time keeping JoNo away from the squad, that causes trouble with the players, the union, and the agents, all of whom you need to favor you if you want to be a player destination.

The clean approach is to part ways as soon as you can lock this year’s salary into the books. We intend to be an over-cap under-tax team anyway in years where both lines are projected to jump up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 09, 2018, 03:20:00 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 09, 2018, 02:04:38 PM
Quote from: Nagel on August 09, 2018, 01:05:20 PM
knicks should not stretch noah in september and still have 6 million of him on their books for 3 years.  Noah isn't going to give any money back to NY.  he isn't a stupid man.

well, Knix can just hold on to his contract for 2 years and not play him.  He'll be 34 by then and his NBA career likely over after not playing for almost 3 years. 



But wise NBA types are not vindictive fucks, so no - we wont hurt ourselves just to hurt him
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 09, 2018, 03:22:24 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 09, 2018, 03:02:58 PM
Buyouts effect team bottom lines, but not salary cap implications. Our concerns are not with the real dollars, but with the cap. Mills and Perry have had a lot of time to interact with Noah and to discuss his predicament with Fizz. The rumor seems to be that the collective decision is that regardless of money, having Noah around would be detrimental to the development of the team. Knicks don’t want him & nobody will take him at what he’s paid.

With buyouts making no difference, Knicks choices are if and when to stretch

No stretch = $18.5 M in 2018, $19 M in 2019

Stretch before 9/1 = $7.5 M in 2018, $7.5 M in 2019, $7.5 M in 2020, $7.5 M in 2021, $7.5 M in 2022

Stretch between 9/1 and next season = $18.5 M in 2018, $6.4 M in 2019, $6.4 M in 2020, $6.4 M in 2021



Thanks

Yeah, so I like plan C
Title: Re: Knicks and Jeff’s
Post by: carlos123 on August 09, 2018, 03:30:13 PM
Whatever they do, let’s never get another coach named Jeff. They all seem to leave a toxic legacy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 09, 2018, 03:31:03 PM
Yeah. It’s a not good but least bad sort of decision. If this is the path, we should do it in a timeframe that gives Noah the best chance to lock on with another team. It’s a favor to him and his agent that will cost us nothing and build good will.
Title: Re: Knicks and Jeff’s
Post by: facilitatorn on August 09, 2018, 03:32:45 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on August 09, 2018, 03:30:13 PM
Whatever they do, let’s never get another coach named Jeff. They all seem to leave a toxic legacy.

Who since VanGundy has been as good or as fun as VanGundy?
Title: Re: Knicks and Jeff’s
Post by: carlos123 on August 09, 2018, 04:52:23 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 09, 2018, 03:32:45 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on August 09, 2018, 03:30:13 PM
Whatever they do, let’s never get another coach named Jeff. They all seem to leave a toxic legacy.

Who since VanGundy has been as good or as fun as VanGundy?

Hornacek
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 09, 2018, 06:52:23 PM
Well they’ve kept Baker around so far. He’s kind of like a Hornacek bobble head.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 09, 2018, 07:17:51 PM
Knicks can now afford Deng next year.....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on August 09, 2018, 08:24:13 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 09, 2018, 03:02:58 PM
No stretch = $18.5 M in 2018, $19 M in 2019

Stretch before 9/1 = $7.5 M in 2018, $7.5 M in 2019, $7.5 M in 2020, $7.5 M in 2021, $7.5 M in 2022

Stretch between 9/1 and next season = $18.5 M in 2018, $6.4 M in 2019, $6.4 M in 2020, $6.4 M in 2021

Anything but the first option is myopic
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 09, 2018, 09:07:29 PM
That means another year in addition to this one upcoming of building through internal improvements, the draft, and tinkering around the edges of free agency.

I don’t think it’s the worst plan, but it doesn’t seem to be where the organization is heading.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 09, 2018, 10:26:59 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on August 09, 2018, 08:24:13 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 09, 2018, 03:02:58 PM
No stretch = $18.5 M in 2018, $19 M in 2019

Stretch before 9/1 = $7.5 M in 2018, $7.5 M in 2019, $7.5 M in 2020, $7.5 M in 2021, $7.5 M in 2022

Stretch between 9/1 and next season = $18.5 M in 2018, $6.4 M in 2019, $6.4 M in 2020, $6.4 M in 2021

Anything but the first option is myopic

Well, if that's how it works, pretty obvious the 2nd one isn't an option.
If stretching you let this year's salary take effect and then stretch just the final year after Sept 1. 

A dead $6.4M for 3 years isn't great, but it's less than a mid-level contract and not much more than we paid Baker last year and this.
But lots of teams will have cap space next year, so it's not the best off-season to have money freed.
One day Knix might get ahead of the curve instead of following the pack.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on August 09, 2018, 11:23:28 PM
A true rebuild season with some interesting pieces along with the anchor weights.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 10, 2018, 11:58:11 AM
Seemingly we have THREE pieces in place (this if the Knox buildup holds - and assuming Kanter is history)

Need to get to TEN.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 10, 2018, 01:04:29 PM
KP, Robinson, Knox, and Frank make 4 foundational pieces. There are a number of prospects on the roster who could rise to compliment that group.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 10, 2018, 01:26:37 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 10, 2018, 01:04:29 PM
KP, Robinson, Knox, and Frank make 4 foundational pieces.

The Core Four

Jeter = KP
Mariano = Robinson
Pettitte=Frank
Posada = Knox
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 10, 2018, 01:27:12 PM
No

Its Porzingis, Hardaway and hopefully Knox

Guy with a 7.0 PER cannot factor in.  If Knox puts that up, will you be disappointed or just say, "well, he's 18...."

Stop protecting Frank
Title: Such As?
Post by: chipstern on August 10, 2018, 01:30:12 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 10, 2018, 01:04:29 PM
KP, Robinson, Knox, and Frank make 4 foundational pieces. There are a number of prospects on the roster who could rise to compliment that group.

(https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/enes-kanter-of-the-new-york-knicks-puts-his-arm-around-teammate-tim-picture-id895910986?s=612x612)
Title: A lieder in the making...das goot...
Post by: chipstern on August 10, 2018, 02:24:09 PM
(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/wtbc0_-glSXFlD9mXV9nEexiXyc=/0x0:3000x2000/1200x800/filters:focal(1364x167:1844x647)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/57691817/FrankieSmokes_Getty_Ringer.0.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 10, 2018, 02:36:02 PM
Minutes - 22 per game

FT attempted - 1 per game

Title: Youth in transition...
Post by: chipstern on August 10, 2018, 02:39:00 PM
 :-\
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 10, 2018, 02:36:02 PM
Minutes - 22 per game

FT attempted - 1 per game

Fair enough.

And now comes that part of the lecture where you explain away the Mudiay & Ball jump shot.

More to the game than STATs, right? 

All three players have some pretty significant arrows in their quiver. 

And yet you are only dismissive of Frank. 

Color me confused.

Kindly elucidate. 

 
Title: Re: Youth in transition...
Post by: chipstern on August 10, 2018, 02:46:27 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 10, 2018, 02:39:00 PM
:-\
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 10, 2018, 02:36:02 PM
Minutes - 22 per game

FT attempted - 1 per game

Fair enough.

And now comes that part of the lecture where you explain away the Mudiay & Ball jump shot.

More to the game than STATs, right? 

All three players have some pretty significant arrows in their quiver. 

And yet you are only dismissive of Frank. 

Color me confused.

Kindly elucidate.

PS: Lonzo?  Tallied 1.4 FTs per game, and a .451 FT %.  Frank's FT% was .721.  Proving?  Not much.  Just SAYING. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 10, 2018, 02:58:12 PM
There’s no accounting for Kiids...

On the Noah front, from NBC Sports via the Nothin But Knicks webcast, if we stretch Noah’s 2019-20 contract to open up 12.5ish Million in the 2019 free agency season we’ll have the possibility of reversing the decision before the start of the season to reverse the stretch and put his total number back on the books for 2019-20 and to be clear of him beyond next season. The displayed quote on NBK prefaced the potential to unstretch with “if the Knicks strike out in 2019 free agency,” but did not go into whether we had to start or wind up under the cap, under the tax, or could use this option regardless of salary cap situation.

I wasn’t able to find the clear rules governing this scenario, but if we can for instance use this when we’re over the cap so long as we stay under the tax line or hard cap line then using Noah to exceed the cap to within 12.5 mil of the tax line for a big payroll this year and no further consequences seems like a good avenue to keep open whether it’s to retain our own standouts or to bring in fresh faces.

As it in no way leaves us short up front this season, this “backsies” provision, should it really exist and not be a figment of the Internet & NBC Sports, makes me more in favor of executing the stretch of Jo.
Title: Re: Youth in transition...
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 10, 2018, 05:02:27 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 10, 2018, 02:39:00 PM
:-\
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 10, 2018, 02:36:02 PM
Minutes - 22 per game

FT attempted - 1 per game

Fair enough.

And now comes that part of the lecture where you explain away the Mudiay & Ball jump shot.



Has nothing to do with Frank

I dont have Mudiay in our core yet, as much as I like his potential.

Ball is in another class.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 10, 2018, 05:24:36 PM
The guard rotation has to be about who can dig in on defense, allow the least openings and cause the most trouble in the process.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 10, 2018, 06:15:17 PM
Just heard a respected NBA voice say how exciting DENVER will be - and in the next breath state how they added the 5-8 shrimp Thomas to the 27th ranked defense in the league

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 10, 2018, 06:35:27 PM
They’re paying Thomas close to max money right, so he’s guaranteed big minutes?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 11, 2018, 12:11:47 AM
The League trying to help the Knix lose:

Quote
The Hornets, Knicks and Wizards have 15 back-to-back sets.
The Hawks, Rockets, Heat, Thunder, Suns, Blazers and Raptors have 12 B2Bs.
Every other team has 13 or 14.
Title: A Loser's Schedule
Post by: bodiddley on August 11, 2018, 02:50:46 AM
Schedule is out and you might want to consider the under on 29.5 W's.

Knix play BKY 2x in Oct  (and a 3rd time in early Dec) so if you're rooting for W's you'd hope those games would be in 2019, when KZ is likely back.

But November is a brutal schedule.
11 Road games to just 4 Homers.
And the first two Nov Home games are Road-Home B2B's.

After an XMas game v. MIL, Knix go on a brutal 6 game road trip
(@: Mil - Uta - Den - LaL - Por - GS)
followed by games v. IND, PHI, @ Was, OKC, HOU
So that's a cruel stretch of 11 winning teams from Dec 27 to Jan 23.

Feb is 9 Home and 3 Road.
But by then Knix likely road kill.
Well, those rooting for another high pick have to like the schedule
And if Knix get buried in L's the first few months, KZ is coming back slowly and on a minutes restriction.  Might not see him til after the all-star break to be safe.

Knix also have a league high 15 2B pairings.
We meet BOS twice in the first 6 weeks, and both times it's the butt end of a B2B for the Knickers.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 11, 2018, 03:18:28 AM
We’ll be what we are by the end of November, a sneakily exciting young team on the rise or a source of other clubs’ players’ highlights. The big early road trip will give us a strong sense of what we’re working with this season.
Title: In The Words Of...
Post by: chipstern on August 11, 2018, 02:32:49 PM
Anyone remember Pat Riley's first season as head coach, when we took the Bulls to seven, absorbed their best shots, and delivered some telling smackdowns of our own (than you X-Man), before they turned on the after-burners in Game 7?

"Anyone in here who doesn't believe we can win this series, there's the door."

Or words to that effect. 

Y'all do what you feel. 

Everyone has their own agenda and set of expectations. 

Rose-Colored Me?

I am not pulling for the lottery. 

PS: November seems a tad early to make any Biblical Pronouncements.  Last year we started off strong, then faded fast as Timmy and KP went down.  I would look to the post-XMAS/Pre-AllStar Game period to gauge our progress or the lack thereof.  Need to go through the league at least once, and afford some return bouts to ascertain which lessons have been learned, and which ones are yet to be inculcated. 
Title: Re: Knicks Pronouncements
Post by: carlos123 on August 11, 2018, 05:04:33 PM
Non-Biblical Pronouncement in August: 28

But hoping for 22

Play hard, lose hard!
Title: Re: In The Words Of...
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 11, 2018, 11:52:27 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 11, 2018, 02:32:49 PM
Anyone remember Pat Riley's first season as head coach, when we took the Bulls to seven, absorbed their best shots, and delivered some telling smackdowns of our own (than you X-Man), before they turned on the after-burners in Game 7?

"Anyone in here who doesn't believe we can win this series, there's the door."

Or words to that effect. 

Y'all do what you feel. 

Everyone has their own agenda and set of expectations. 

Rose-Colored Me?

I am not pulling for the lottery. 

PS: November seems a tad early to make any Biblical Pronouncements. Last year we started off strong, then faded fast as Timmy and KP went down.  I would look to the post-XMAS/Pre-AllStar Game period to gauge our progress or the lack thereof.  Need to go through the league at least once, and afford some return bouts to ascertain which lessons have been learned, and which ones are yet to be inculcated.

Welllll....... KP's still down

Ya think Knoxie solves that divide?

Or maybe you like Mudiay that much.

Fizz magic?

Appreciate the "who knows" stance - just not seeing it.

Remember this though - there can be pretty usable players on a poor NBA team.  Let's be careful who we kill.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: josh on August 12, 2018, 03:12:20 PM
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2789744-2018-19-nba-schedule-win-loss-predictions-for-every-team?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_campaign=editorial&utm_medium=referral#slide2 (https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2789744-2018-19-nba-schedule-win-loss-predictions-for-every-team?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_campaign=editorial&utm_medium=referral#slide2)

Different projections.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on August 13, 2018, 04:16:38 AM
Yes I have seen enough of Franky and Noah. If they can be jettisoned to give time and space to talented newbies another rebuild year would be palatable.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 13, 2018, 01:26:56 PM
It looks like you are getting 1/2 your wish in Noah. If you are tired of seeing Frank, don’t watch the Knicks for the next dozen or so seasons. The growing bandwagon will quickly offer up someone to fill your seat.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 13, 2018, 01:31:29 PM
Actually, hearing that right now FN is not even in the rotation.

YOUR best look at him, Fac, may be to get tix behind the NYK bench

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 13, 2018, 02:28:41 PM
Nothing you ever claim to hear turns out to be true.

But please elaborate more on how a bizarro super-crap Knicks team would be run so I can know more about exactly what we won’t see this season. Kanter at the PF? A big contribution from Noah? Ron Burgundy making the opening roster? What else?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 13, 2018, 02:37:22 PM
Kanter has to play C now with the Noah decision.

And Knox could very well start at PF.  (I think I'd line it up that way now)

I did see one depth chart (CBS?) that had Frank starting at the 2, with Burke at the 1.

Many options for Fizz.  And lots of guesswork for fans and press.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 13, 2018, 05:02:08 PM
Team seems like a mess.
I'll start the bidding with 23 W's . . .
Title: Going...Going...GONE?
Post by: chipstern on August 13, 2018, 06:39:16 PM
That started when they traded Carmelo Anthony before last season, and it continued when they drafted two high-ceiling prospects in the first round of the NBA Draft: Kevin Knox and Mitchell Robinson. They’ll join Kristaps Porzingis (once he returns from injury) as the future of the Knicks franchise. One player who’s apparently not part of that “future” could be Courtney Lee. In an Instagram post designed to get fans excited for the “Future of New York,” the Knicks featured a mash-up of Porzingis, Knox, Robinson, Enes Kanter, Tim Hardaway Jr., Frank Ntilikina, Lance Thomas, Emmanuel Mudiay and Trey Burke. Noticeably absent is Lee, who led the Knicks in total minutes last season. Hmmm.
– via CBSSports.com

As Lee was scrolling through Instagram, he noticed the Knicks’ post and decided to chime in, saying “there I go” accompanied by a crying laughing emoji. Apparently Lee is taking this as a sign that he’s not long for New York, and that a trade could be in the works.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 13, 2018, 07:36:52 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 13, 2018, 05:02:08 PM
Team seems like a mess.
I'll start the bidding with 23 W's . . .

Dear Dear Dear...
Title: Re: Knicks Pronouncements
Post by: carlos123 on August 13, 2018, 09:48:31 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 13, 2018, 07:36:52 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 13, 2018, 05:02:08 PM
Team seems like a mess.
I'll start the bidding with 23 W's . . .

Dear Dear Dear...


Quote
Non-Biblical Pronouncement in August: 28

But hoping for 22

Play hard, lose hard!

Ok, “there I go”, 22 it is.
Title: Wishful Stinking
Post by: chipstern on August 13, 2018, 11:25:38 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on August 13, 2018, 09:48:31 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 13, 2018, 07:36:52 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 13, 2018, 05:02:08 PM
Team seems like a mess.
I'll start the bidding with 23 W's . . .

Dear Dear Dear...


Quote
Non-Biblical Pronouncement in August: 28

But hoping for 22

Play hard, lose hard!

Ok, “there I go”, 22 it is.

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-90LgcClqVp4/UeGN7FVVlqI/AAAAAAAAI78/dYThqQLea7g/s1600/T-34.jpg)

(http://a1.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=%2Fmedia%2Fmotion%2F2018%2F0621%2Fdm_180621_NBA_Draft_Knicks_boo%2Fdm_180621_NBA_Draft_Knicks_boo.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BDHH2WPCYAMqtFw.jpg)

(https://media3.giphy.com/media/pFUU7TSaUoDN6/giphy.gif)

Title: Re: Wishful Stinking
Post by: carlos123 on August 14, 2018, 12:22:31 AM
Quote from: chipstern on August 13, 2018, 11:25:38 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on August 13, 2018, 09:48:31 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 13, 2018, 07:36:52 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 13, 2018, 05:02:08 PM
Team seems like a mess.
I'll start the bidding with 23 W's . . .

Dear Dear Dear...


Quote
Non-Biblical Pronouncement in August: 28

But hoping for 22

Play hard, lose hard!

Ok, “there I go”, 22 it is.

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-90LgcClqVp4/UeGN7FVVlqI/AAAAAAAAI78/dYThqQLea7g/s1600/T-34.jpg)

(http://a1.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=%2Fmedia%2Fmotion%2F2018%2F0621%2Fdm_180621_NBA_Draft_Knicks_boo%2Fdm_180621_NBA_Draft_Knicks_boo.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BDHH2WPCYAMqtFw.jpg)

(https://media3.giphy.com/media/pFUU7TSaUoDN6/giphy.gif)

Hahaha

Chippo, I don’t look like any of those people, and I love the picks we made.

Here’s hoping for another great pick next year. 22 IT IS.

PS. The tank is kinda cool. Where you get it?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 14, 2018, 12:36:40 AM
Quote
D'Antoni also said he was not certain whether Anthony would be in Houston's starting lineup.

Quote
Mike D’Antoni on Carmelo Anthony:
“If I can put him in his right position & he flourishes & the team wins, we’re not going to have any problems.  Whether he starts or whether he doesn’t, doesn’t really matter. He needs to be happy & I need to find ways to make him happy.”

Of course, starting and getting his touches and iso's is what makes Melo happy . . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 14, 2018, 02:33:44 AM
https://twitter.com/JabariDavisNBA/status/1029219917567016960 (https://twitter.com/JabariDavisNBA/status/1029219917567016960)

Forget sometimes how good this guy was. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 14, 2018, 06:23:36 AM
He had a quality game & a decently long career. I was psyched we were pursuing for our bench.

If 23 wins is our goal and in our future, we should run a lot of Robinson, Vonleh, Knox, Hardaway, Ntilikina early in the season. If Robinson isn’t ready for a big lift, swap in Kornet so there is still a semblance of rim protection.
Title: Carlos
Post by: chipstern on August 14, 2018, 08:39:16 AM
A Soviet T-34 Tank.

Dominant armored vehicle of WWII. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 14, 2018, 01:18:33 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 11, 2018, 12:11:47 AM
The League trying to help the Knix lose:

Quote
The Hornets, Knicks and Wizards have 15 back-to-back sets.
The Hawks, Rockets, Heat, Thunder, Suns, Blazers and Raptors have 12 B2Bs.
Every other team has 13 or 14.

ATL having three less B2Bs than us is huge for the TANK
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 14, 2018, 01:21:02 PM
Fac - I really think the writing is on the wall that Frank is a 2-guard for most of this season

We will still see him handling some.  I sure wouldnt look for it early on.

He'd have to be on the court without Mudiay or Burke out there.  Dont we want Burke IN there when Mudiay is not?

(yes, I do agree Frank could bring it up some possessions in a Burke-Ntilikina or Emmanuel-Ntilikina set - just not primarily)

------

So, forum....

Lee's money off the books for 2019-20, Kanter's, an additional 12.5 from Noah.......

Optimism?

I wanted to deal KP but with that space plus Knox-Hardaway-KP core, plus the 2019 picks we could be OK in a couple years (45+ wins)

NBAdraft.net has us with (2019 draft)

2-guard and elite scorer (Indiana) Romeo Langford - passing on Jontay Porter and Hachimura

and

seasoned senior SF (Wichita St) Markis McDuffie - a New Yorker, I believe though after hitting on Robinson we might be intrigued by Brian Bowen





Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 14, 2018, 01:32:49 PM
No more Shockers.

Wichita State needs to prove it can develop NBA players.

Not too impressed with FVV RB and CE
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 14, 2018, 02:14:36 PM
Kid, I think you are right that one of our troika of lotto points will probably see many more minutes at the wing than at the point. It won’t be Frank shifting to the wing. It will be Mudiay. Frank or Burke will start and the other will be the primary backup.

Stretching Noah and only paying Lance his guaranteed million instead of paying his full contract has us with cap holds and rookie scales with between 65-70 mil on the books. This will put us in the neighborhood of 40 million under the cap. There’s no law saying we have to commit that space to pedigree vets at top dollar right away. We could be patient, and roll the space forward to a year where our key players are further developed and defined.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 14, 2018, 02:28:21 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 14, 2018, 02:14:36 PM
Kid, I think you are right that one of our troika of lotto points will probably see many more minutes at the wing than at the point. It won’t be Frank shifting to the wing. It will be Mudiay. Frank or Burke will start and the other will be the primary backup.

Stretching Noah and only paying Lance his guaranteed million instead of paying his full contract has us with cap holds and rookie scales with between 65-70 mil on the books. This will put us in the neighborhood of 40 million under the cap. There’s no law saying we have to commit that space to pedigree vets at top dollar right away. We could be patient, and roll the space forward to a year where our key players are further developed and defined.

Lance is due 7 million and change in both 2018-2019 and 2019-2020. 

Unaware of any outs or team options.  Can you point to some evidence to the contrary? 

Meanwhile...

Don't see the Knicks positioning Knox at PF. 

A) Young

B) YOUNG

C) Body still developing

D) Physical demands of bodying up with beefier more physical players

E) KP's return

At some point in the future, I could see KP playing some 5 with Knox at the 4.  For right now, I think Fizz prioritizes Knox's short term development, and leaves the future to define itself. 

The back court? 

I could see Burke tallying more minutes at the off guard than Frank or Emmanuel, as he is better able to create his own shot.  Sure, his lack of size puts him at a disadvantage defensively, but his quickness and off the ball skills could put pressure on bigger defenders as well...make them work. 

Otherwise, speaking of logjams...

Despite Fizz loving size and length, to accommodate all of his ballhandlers and wings, still think we will see significant minutes for Hardaway and Dotson at the 3-spot, as match-ups allow, and as we attempt to foster more three-point attempts. 

Dotson is a good defender, Timmy not so much. 

We shall see. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 14, 2018, 02:38:16 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 14, 2018, 02:14:36 PM
Kid, I think you are right that one of our troika of lotto points will probably see many more minutes at the wing than at the point. It won’t be Frank shifting to the wing. It will be Mudiay. Frank or Burke will start and the other will be the primary backup.

Stretching Noah and only paying Lance his guaranteed million instead of paying his full contract has us with cap holds and rookie scales with between 65-70 mil on the books. This will put us in the neighborhood of 40 million under the cap. There’s no law saying we have to commit that space to pedigree vets at top dollar right away. We could be patient, and roll the space forward to a year where our key players are further developed and defined.

True.  With 40 mil we can offer one year deal to Free Agent A and one year to Free Agent B at 20mil each to roll the money forward to next year.  Like the Lakers did with KCP.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 14, 2018, 03:18:21 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 14, 2018, 02:28:21 PM
Lance is due 7 million and change in both 2018-2019 and 2019-2020. 

Unaware of any outs or team options.  Can you point to some evidence to the contrary?   

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/new-york-knicks/lance-thomas-8713/ (http://www.spotrac.com/nba/new-york-knicks/lance-thomas-8713/)

In the notes at the bottom it mentions the 2019 is guaranteed to $1 million till 1/10/2020. I think he’d have banked more than that if he’s still around till January as a portion of a $7 million deal.
Title: Ball Vs. Ntilikina
Post by: chipstern on August 14, 2018, 03:26:30 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qNySpbjd5g

Worth a look. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 14, 2018, 03:28:50 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 14, 2018, 03:18:21 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 14, 2018, 02:28:21 PM
Lance is due 7 million and change in both 2018-2019 and 2019-2020. 

Unaware of any outs or team options.  Can you point to some evidence to the contrary?   

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/new-york-knicks/lance-thomas-8713/ (http://www.spotrac.com/nba/new-york-knicks/lance-thomas-8713/)

In the notes at the bottom it mentions the 2019 is guaranteed to $1 million till 1/10/2020. I think he’d have banked more than that if he’s still around till January as a portion of a $7 million deal.

Interesting. 

Not sure what the implications of that are.

Can the Knicks cut him without a cap hit for his full salary? 

We shall see.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 14, 2018, 03:33:08 PM
One nice thing about the way our roster is composed is that we seem to have somebody who matches every physical type prevalent in the NBA.

This means in camp, along with many reps at the SF, Knox will get matched up with Vonleh, Lance, and Hicks, all big boys in the 240 range. That will give the staff a clue about if, where, and when Knox can play power forward. Similarly, by matching up with Dotson, Lee, and Hardaway in camp Knox will answer how much he can do at shooting guard.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 14, 2018, 03:38:10 PM
“Released (waived) players with guaranteed contracts continue to be included in team salary. Players whose contracts are not guaranteed are included in team salary in the amount they made while they were with the team. Players on non-guaranteed "summer contracts" are not included in team salary unless they make the regular season roster.”

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap05.htm#Q57 (http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap05.htm#Q57)
Title: DA TANK
Post by: carlos123 on August 14, 2018, 09:06:59 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 14, 2018, 08:39:16 AM
A Soviet T-34 Tank.

Dominant armored vehicle of WWII.

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-90LgcClqVp4/UeGN7FVVlqI/AAAAAAAAI78/dYThqQLea7g/s1600/T-34.jpg)
Love it

(https://johnriddell.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/all_power_to_the_soviets.jpg)
Translation for Chico: "All Power to the Soviets"

GO KNICKS. PLAY HARD. LOSE HARD!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 14, 2018, 09:36:43 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 14, 2018, 02:14:36 PM
Kid, I think you are right that one of our troika of lotto points will probably see many more minutes at the wing than at the point. It won’t be Frank shifting to the wing. It will be Mudiay. Frank or Burke will start and the other will be the primary backup.

Stretching Noah and only paying Lance his guaranteed million instead of paying his full contract has us with cap holds and rookie scales with between 65-70 mil on the books. This will put us in the neighborhood of 40 million under the cap. There’s no law saying we have to commit that space to pedigree vets at top dollar right away. We could be patient, and roll the space forward to a year where our key players are further developed and defined.

Eh

We shall see

If I am betting I dont see Mudiay not quarterbacking this team when he is in
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 14, 2018, 11:24:59 PM
I think everyone winds up competing at as many positions as possible for a variety of roles.

The two (healthy) guys on the size extremes of this group, Kanter and Burke, are one position guys defensively who get hurt in switch situations not to mention cross-matches.

Otherwise, here are things to find out in camp that can determine rotational usage;

Can Kornet and/or Robinson check PF’s in space?

Are there SF’s Vonleh can cover?

Is Knox strong enough for some PF and sound enough for some SG’s?

Same for Mario.

Who is better defensively, Vonleh or Lance?

Can Hardaway eclipse Lee defensively?

Can Dotson?

Who, if anyone can Mudiay defend?

Can Frank defend SF’s yet, or just all the guards?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 14, 2018, 11:53:50 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 14, 2018, 11:24:59 PM
I think everyone winds up competing at as many positions as possible for a variety of roles.

The two (healthy) guys on the size extremes of this group, Kanter and Burke, are one position guys defensively who get hurt in switch situations not to mention cross-matches.

Otherwise, here are things to find out in camp that can determine rotational usage;

Can Kornet and/or Robinson check PF’s in space?

Are there SF’s Vonleh can cover?

Is Knox strong enough for some PF and sound enough for some SG’s?

Same for Mario.

Who is better defensively, Vonleh or Lance?

Can Hardaway eclipse Lee defensively?

Can Dotson?

Who, if anyone can Mudiay defend?

Can Frank defend SF’s yet, or just all the guards?

Thank you. 

Good analysis. 

We shall see. 

More fun as a narrative than rooting for a total tank. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 15, 2018, 12:12:08 AM
That was analysis?

heh
Title: Things To Watch
Post by: chipstern on August 15, 2018, 12:17:15 AM
Players competing for their next contracts?

Hungry campers.

Enes Kanter is many things, but stupid is not one of them.

I believe he would dearly like to be part of the NEW New York Knicks.  And I think management is open to the possibility. 

Can he step up defensively and develop an effective long-range jumper? 

Competing for his next contract.  Don't write him or his cap hold off quite yet.

Trey Burke?

Also competing for his next contract.  He played with enormous heart and soul when he finally got his chance.  At times, he was an offensive marvel.  Can he improve his defense and ramp up his efficiency. We know he can create for himself, sort of Iverson Light.  But can he make better decisions as a facilitator?

Emmanuel Mudiay.  Next summer the Knicks hold a player option.  Is Mudiay a wash out or simply in need of context and discipline.  Fizdale has already brushed off the notion that he did not receive good coaching in Denver, speaking up for Mike Malone.  Mudiay has enormous physical presence; a big ballhandler with a robust body and good instincts, but tremendously inconsistent, some of which might come down to experience, or the lack thereof, and conditioning, or the lack thereof.  There were times, one was dumbfounded by his lack of basic skills.  There were other times, when everything snapped into focus, and you saw the makings of a first rate point guard, and possibly a truly effective defender. 

Mario Hezonja.  On a one year make good, for MCE money.  It remains to be seen if he can fulfill Fizdale's vision of a positionless player, capable of playing effectively at the 2-3-4.  What is his ideal position?  Who and how well can he defend.  I think his ability to get to the rack, move without the ball, and hit from long range, is a given, least ways, a distinct likelihood, based on the final third of his season with the Magic.  Can he defend?  Who can he defend (2-3-4?).  And at what level?  If any. 

It could go either way. 

Could come next spring, we be exulting the future of our four reclamation projects Kanter-Burke-Mudiay-Hezonja with as much passion as we are currently projecting on to Ntilikina-Knox-Robinson?  Or simply pining away for the draft lottery and free agency? 

Stay tuned.   

Pray Hard For Retards. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 15, 2018, 12:18:15 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 15, 2018, 12:12:08 AM
That was analysis?

heh

You smirk and your snark has been duly noted. 

We look forward with keen anticipation to something other than drive bys. 

(https://78.media.tumblr.com/23703eac928c70735171d6ffc861b134/tumblr_mff4b1V8Ls1qksdrmo8_250.gif)

On that day, when Kiid offers something other than derision, an angel will get its wings. 

Help us, Clarence. 

 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 15, 2018, 12:39:44 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 14, 2018, 11:24:59 PM
Otherwise, here are things to find out in camp that can determine rotational usage;

Are there SF’s Vonleh can cover?
Who is better defensively, Vonleh or Lance?

Can Hardaway eclipse Lee defensively?

Who, if anyone can Mudiay defend?

Interesting idea that Vonleh is on trial to become the next Lance, as we look ahead to jettisoning an aging Lance with a $1M out after next season.  Can Vonleh hit an occasional open 3-ball?  Can he switch and handle some positions other than PF?

Tim Jr. just needs to become more consistent and focused on both ends.  With more attentiveness, he could be an average defender.

Mud needs defensive work, and also rim finishing.
He is athletic and can get into the paint, but his ups just aren't there when in deep.  Maybe with better conditioning.  Just so much he needs to work on, you can see why DEN gave up on him.  It's late in the day for himto learn how to be an NBA PG, and he can't shoot to play SG.  For this upcoming season, I'm a bit apprehensive the Mud Project may retard Franc's growth.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 15, 2018, 12:51:30 AM
I think we want the cap space, Chip

Kanter wanted a long term deal this summer - that he didnt get it speaks volumes

Like I said, it's..........

Porzingis, Hardaway, Knox,............ add.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 15, 2018, 03:35:16 AM
Toward cap space,

The Thunder get Courtney Lee, a defensive downgrade from Robeson, but still a defender and a legit vet sniper to space the floor.

Knicks get Kyle Singler, Alex Abrines, and one of Timothe Luwawu, Terence Furgeson, or Ray Felton (who can refuse to preserve his Bird rights). Alex expires this year for a little under 5 mil. Singler has a team option in 2019-20 and makes a little over 5 mil. The other three are in the 2 mil range and either expire or have team options next summer. We let the three fight it out with Dotson and Baker for the tail slots at wing and cut the rest. We get younger with more cap space in the process.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 15, 2018, 10:49:27 AM
Quote from: chipstern on August 14, 2018, 11:53:50 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 14, 2018, 11:24:59 PM
I think everyone winds up competing at as many positions as possible for a variety of roles.

The two (healthy) guys on the size extremes of this group, Kanter and Burke, are one position guys defensively who get hurt in switch situations not to mention cross-matches.

Otherwise, here are things to find out in camp that can determine rotational usage;

Can Kornet and/or Robinson check PF’s in space?

Are there SF’s Vonleh can cover?

Is Knox strong enough for some PF and sound enough for some SG’s?

Same for Mario.

Who is better defensively, Vonleh or Lance?

Can Hardaway eclipse Lee defensively?

Can Dotson?

Who, if anyone can Mudiay defend?

Can Frank defend SF’s yet, or just all the guards?

Thank you. 

Good analysis. 

We shall see. 

More fun as a narrative than rooting for a total tank.

One can appreciate BOTH a good effort by kids growing up in the NBA as well as appreciate the forces (internal an external) that land the team in a position to add a sublime talent.

Don't take the tank so personally.  Let its studded wheels roll over your prone squishy body.  And feel the relief.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 15, 2018, 12:42:44 PM
Stop calling it a tank when our troops are about to do everything in their power - working their tails off - to win every possible game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 15, 2018, 02:00:09 PM
538 projects the Knix with 25 W's and the 2nd worst record in the Association
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-our-way-too-early-nba-projections-can-tell-us-about-next-season/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 15, 2018, 02:26:37 PM
We could most definitely be a train wreck on scale with some of our big recent train wrecks record wise, if things don’t work out.

If our talent is held to high fitness levels, communicates well and finds a way to play fluidly, they could string some wins together. The fact that we have multiple athletes good enough to get open simultaneously can be a big help, like Tim, Kevin, and Mario all looking to make space at the same time off a 1-5 pick and roll.

We can roll out a lot of shot blocking in Mitchell and Kornet or we can bully the paint with Kanter and Vonleh. We can also mix and match.

Our back court has 3 double digit scorers returning and 3 more or less promising pups.

I think we can match last season’s win total and even exceed it by 3-5 games without any contribution from KP.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on August 15, 2018, 03:13:10 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 14, 2018, 11:24:59 PM
I think everyone winds up competing at as many positions as possible for a variety of roles.

The two (healthy) guys on the size extremes of this group, Kanter and Burke, are one position guys defensively who get hurt in switch situations not to mention cross-matches.

Otherwise, here are things to find out in camp that can determine rotational usage;

Can Kornet and/or Robinson check PF’s in space?

Are there SF’s Vonleh can cover?

Is Knox strong enough for some PF and sound enough for some SG’s?

Same for Mario.

Who is better defensively, Vonleh or Lance?

Can Hardaway eclipse Lee defensively?

Can Dotson?

Who, if anyone can Mudiay defend?

Can Frank defend SF’s yet, or just all the guards?

I've bolded the questions we already know the answer to. Otherwise, interesting questions.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 15, 2018, 03:26:04 PM
You can plug in various Knix to see their CARMELo projection for the next bunch of years.  It has an O & D +/-, projected $ value.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/carmelo/tim-hardaway-jr/

But what I found most interesting are the player comparisons.

Lance Thomas most matches Ira Newble, with some Damien Wilkins and Jerebko in the mix.

Muddy resembles a slew of players who dropped out of the league quickly:  Telfair, Tate Armstrong, Archie Goodwin, and most closely guys I never heard of: Larry Wright & Winfred Boynes (from 1978-80).

Kanter?  David Lee, Greg Monroe, Chris Wilcox.
His projected value next year is $8M next year, dropping to ... $6M

Jimmer, Telfair, ex-Rutgers John Battle, and N8 Robinson come up as Trey Burke similarities.

Tim?  Wes Person, Tracy Murray, Will Barton and Johnny Newman turn up.  Johnny Newman had a lot of promise, could score, was inconsistent, stopped no one.

Courtly?  Raja Bell

Tim Thomas and Kenny Sky Walker come up as comparisons for Hezonja

Vonleh?
Loy Vaught.  Jordan Hill.  Tyrone Hill.  Projected to have a negative value next year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 15, 2018, 03:35:40 PM
Kind of addictive:

Dray Green matches closest to Kirilenko.
Iguodala ~ Ron Harper
Lowry ~ Billups
Saric ~ Kiki Vandeweghe
Etc ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 15, 2018, 03:51:44 PM
Winfred Boynes!!!

Love it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on August 15, 2018, 04:03:57 PM
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24372973/nba-2019-free-agent-predictions-espn-summer-forecast (http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24372973/nba-2019-free-agent-predictions-espn-summer-forecast)


Irving and Butler would be not only be  logical but fit the pattern of putting together a super team a done previously by Miami or Golden State.  NY is a logical fit a the next location.  NY offered many things outside basketball if the basketball is successful. Madison avenue isn't far away.  Ask Clyde what's it like to win in NY.  ask Joe Namath or Keith Hernandez. 

If they truly want it to happen i believe it can happen.

Irving, Hardaway, Butler, Knox and KP ?  that would be sweet.

fantasy today? no doubt but the has been plenty of smoke in the air about this possibility.

one can only  hope it comes true.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 15, 2018, 04:23:23 PM
So many options for the cap space - I cant begin to hang hopes on a current Celts player
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 15, 2018, 04:29:30 PM
Nice Ball-Tatum piece

https://www.lakersnation.com/did-lakers-make-mistake-lonzo-ball-instead-jayson-tatum-2017-nba-draft/2018/08/14/ (https://www.lakersnation.com/did-lakers-make-mistake-lonzo-ball-instead-jayson-tatum-2017-nba-draft/2018/08/14/)
Title: Kam the Champion Tank
Post by: carlos123 on August 15, 2018, 09:59:28 PM
Quote from: Kam on August 15, 2018, 10:49:27 AM

One can appreciate BOTH a good effort by kids growing up in the NBA as well as appreciate the forces (internal an external) that land the team in a position to add a sublime talent.

Don't take the tank so personally.  Let its studded wheels roll over your prone squishy body.  And feel the relief.

Brilliant!!!

(http://www.renegadetribune.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/soviet-mine-sweeper-t34tral.jpg)

PLAY HARD. LOSE HARD
Title: Circular Firing Squad
Post by: chipstern on August 15, 2018, 10:57:15 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on August 15, 2018, 09:59:28 PM
Quote from: Kam on August 15, 2018, 10:49:27 AM

One can appreciate BOTH a good effort by kids growing up in the NBA as well as appreciate the forces (internal an external) that land the team in a position to add a sublime talent.

Don't take the tank so personally.  Let its studded wheels roll over your prone squishy body.  And feel the relief.

Brilliant!!!

(http://www.renegadetribune.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/soviet-mine-sweeper-t34tral.jpg)

PLAY HARD. LOSE HARD

(https://media.giphy.com/media/t8vI9EexNVS24/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 16, 2018, 02:40:30 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 15, 2018, 03:51:44 PM
Winfred Boynes!!!
Love it.

Actually I got it wrong, it's Winford Boynes.

Nets drafted Boynes with a 1st round pick they got from the Knix in the Phil Jackson trade.  Knix got a HOU 1st round pick from the NJ Nets, which NY used to draft Michael Ray Richardson.

I'm somewhat surprised I don't recall Boynes.  When the Nets joined the NBA for the 1977 season and moved to Piscataway, they were just 15 minutes away from my home.  My father would drop my brother and me and maybe a friend off at the stadium and we'd just call after the game ended.  Student tickets were I think $2.  Small stadium half full.

I mostly recall the 1977-78 season with Kevin & Howard Porter, rookie Bernard King, SuperJohn Williamson who continued shooting ABA 3-point shots despite no 3 point line, Jan van Bredakoff, Rutgers great Eddie Jordan.

The next year, Nets had Phil and Boynes, and I'm guessing we didn't go to as many games, as that team is less familiar.  Will have to ask my older brother.  And see if he recalls Winford Boynes.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 16, 2018, 04:23:30 PM
The Knicks Wall

Pretty cool site:

Perry was gifted a dumpster fire by Phil Jackson. He doused the flames and put a welcome sign with a David Fizdale fathead smack-dab in the middle. Mario Hezonja busted through the door like Kramer from Seinfeld in order to sign up. The details of Hezonja’s rumored offer from the Portland Trail Blazers hasn’t come out yet, but the fact that he declined a multi-year opportunity to sign a one-year contract with the Knicks is imperative to Perry’s narrative.

With that seemingly meaningless signing on the tiny desk, Perry and company tasted a bit of what they need in order to land their muse in 2019: desire. Hezonja’s desire to play for New York is rooted in two areas: self-actualization and culture.

The first part of Hezonja’s desire that Perry pinpointed was self-actualization. Self-actualization includes growth and reaching one’s ideal self, things Hezonja obviously craves after a disappointing start in the NBA. He still wishes to live up to the “Croatian Kobe” image he cultivated before the draft. Whatever the Blazers offered him wasn’t enough, whether it in terms of finances or his role on the team didn’t adequately feed his ego. A one-year deal where Fizdale said, “You keep what you kill”, is the exact situation that Hezonja, who was buried on Orlando’s bench at one point last season, desires. New York is offering him a shot at proving he’s worth the money he believes he deserves.

Culture, the second part of Hezonja’s decision, begins with Perry, one of the front office executives responsible for drafting Hezonja. Perry approached him after both have had multiple years of separation, with amicable yet less than favorable exits from the Magic organization, at least from their side of the table. And the culture aspect closes the deal with the sweetener the Knicks have locked up for the next four seasons: David Fizdale

Fizdale’s promise of a run & gun coaching style was part of the pitch that enamored Hezonja when it came to his duties on the court. A modern offense is a great look, and it goes hand-in-hand with Perry’s management philosophy on signings—Fizdale is as player-friendly as they come. In the immediate aftermath of his firing, a handful of future hall-of-famers tweeted in protest. They’re just tweets, but Perry recognized that when the most high profile ‘Coach Killer’ in the sport comes to your defense, your reputation is so sterling it could polish a turd, and indeed it did.

With ample cap space open for 2019 free agency, and the possibility of even more in 2020, Scott Perry has transformed the Knicks’ reputation from incompetence to growth like an expert manager. On court flubs are no longer mistakes—they’re learning opportunities. Unwanted underperformers aren’t cysts—they’re professionals who deserve to control their own destinies (ie: the nicest way to say GTFO). Over the past year, Perry hasn’t just given the Knicks a makeover with the rebrand; he put them through plastic surgery. His three tenants for favorable trades (modernity, cap flexibility, and player-centricity) combined with his specific criteria for signings, whether they be call ups for players with a chip on their shoulder or enticing free agents with the allure of Fizdale, creates a well-rounded philosophy, especially for a new GM. and a The organization still has a lot of work both on and off the court to complete, but if Perry can make Dolan disappear for a whole season, his next trick should be a doozie.



https://theknickswall.com/the-scott-perry-effect-rebranding-a-broken-knicks-organization/ (https://theknickswall.com/the-scott-perry-effect-rebranding-a-broken-knicks-organization/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 16, 2018, 06:27:36 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 16, 2018, 04:23:30 PM
The Knicks Wall

Pretty cool site:

Perry was gifted a dumpster fire by Phil Jackson. He doused the flames and put a welcome sign with a David Fizdale fathead smack-dab in the middle. Mario Hezonja busted through the door like Kramer from Seinfeld in order to sign up. The details of Hezonja’s rumored offer from the Portland Trail Blazers hasn’t come out yet, but the fact that he declined a multi-year opportunity to sign a one-year contract with the Knicks is imperative to Perry’s narrative.

With that seemingly meaningless signing on the tiny desk, Perry and company tasted a bit of what they need in order to land their muse in 2019: desire. Hezonja’s desire to play for New York is rooted in two areas: self-actualization and culture.

The first part of Hezonja’s desire that Perry pinpointed was self-actualization. Self-actualization includes growth and reaching one’s ideal self, things Hezonja obviously craves after a disappointing start in the NBA. He still wishes to live up to the “Croatian Kobe” image he cultivated before the draft. Whatever the Blazers offered him wasn’t enough, whether it in terms of finances or his role on the team didn’t adequately feed his ego. A one-year deal where Fizdale said, “You keep what you kill”, is the exact situation that Hezonja, who was buried on Orlando’s bench at one point last season, desires. New York is offering him a shot at proving he’s worth the money he believes he deserves.

Culture, the second part of Hezonja’s decision, begins with Perry, one of the front office executives responsible for drafting Hezonja. Perry approached him after both have had multiple years of separation, with amicable yet less than favorable exits from the Magic organization, at least from their side of the table. And the culture aspect closes the deal with the sweetener the Knicks have locked up for the next four seasons: David Fizdale

Fizdale’s promise of a run & gun coaching style was part of the pitch that enamored Hezonja when it came to his duties on the court. A modern offense is a great look, and it goes hand-in-hand with Perry’s management philosophy on signings—Fizdale is as player-friendly as they come. In the immediate aftermath of his firing, a handful of future hall-of-famers tweeted in protest. They’re just tweets, but Perry recognized that when the most high profile ‘Coach Killer’ in the sport comes to your defense, your reputation is so sterling it could polish a turd, and indeed it did.

With ample cap space open for 2019 free agency, and the possibility of even more in 2020, Scott Perry has transformed the Knicks’ reputation from incompetence to growth like an expert manager. On court flubs are no longer mistakes—they’re learning opportunities. Unwanted underperformers aren’t cysts—they’re professionals who deserve to control their own destinies (ie: the nicest way to say GTFO). Over the past year, Perry hasn’t just given the Knicks a makeover with the rebrand; he put them through plastic surgery. His three tenants for favorable trades (modernity, cap flexibility, and player-centricity) combined with his specific criteria for signings, whether they be call ups for players with a chip on their shoulder or enticing free agents with the allure of Fizdale, creates a well-rounded philosophy, especially for a new GM. and a The organization still has a lot of work both on and off the court to complete, but if Perry can make Dolan disappear for a whole season, his next trick should be a doozie.



https://theknickswall.com/the-scott-perry-effect-rebranding-a-broken-knicks-organization/ (https://theknickswall.com/the-scott-perry-effect-rebranding-a-broken-knicks-organization/)

Thank you for posting. 

And this is why, I do not look with good humor upon what I take to be a moronic fixation upon tanking or whatever you want to call it, wherein the allure of a lottery pick trumps any other considerations. 

What makes this manifestly stupid POV so appalling to me, is that as far as our future draft position goes, let the chips fall where they may.   

Looking at picks 1-14 in this latest draft, damn near any of the players picked before or after #9, could have made a solid contribution to our roster going forward. 

Perry & Fizdale did their due diligence, and while it is way too early to anoint Kevin Knox, nor to hang the franchise player albatross around his neck, clearly we got a solid all-around talent with good character to develop.  I remember when Trey Burke was having a wonderful run at season's end, and we were winning some meaningless games with good team play and even some defense, members of this forum were bemoaning the loss of prime draft position. 

[Expletive Deleted]

And son-of-a-bitch if we didn't get a prospect with a world of upside at #36. 

As for where we finish the season, I'm for winning as many games as possible, and let the chips fall where they may, as it were. 

Play Hard, Lose Hard.

[Expletive Deleted]

WRONG. 

Develop a winning culture. 

Do any of you simple-minded motherfuckers really think that a 22 win team and a lottery pick is going to have a tremendous appeal to the likes of Kyrie Irving or Jimmy Butler? 

A winning culture is what will cause top tier free agents to smell the coffee and dampen their undies.  And not just a winning culture.  A YOUNG WINNING CULTURE.  A young winning culture in NEW YORK.  A young winning culture in New York with KRISTAPS PORZINGIS as the bell cow. 

Not a fucking lottery pick.  Not draconian Donnie Douche Bite Your Noses To Spite Your Faces cap space self-immolation.  Not sell off your draft picks like every short term thinking, dumb-ass motherfucking Trader Vic in Knicks lore. 

But someone saying, hey [presumably, hopefully, God Willing], "Hey, look what they are building there in NY.  Man, I want a piece of that pussy.  Look at how Fizz matured and ressurected the games of castaways and re-treads like Burke, Mudiay, Herzonja and Vonleh.  Look at how they nurtured pups like Ntilikina, Kornet, Dotson, Knox and Robinson.  Look at how Fizz challenged Kanter and Hardaway to raise their games and how they responded. 

Of course, this is HIGHLY SPECULATIVE. 

And by committing to player development and fostering a winning culture, we are going to lose a lot of games. 

So no, I am not so stoned as to think we are a playoff team, but then, WHY THE FUCK NOT? 

Unlike doofusses who give the thumbs down to draft selections such as Porzingis and Knox, or who see sugarplum fairies in losses ("Keep 'em coming"), players playing for their NBA lives, players playing for a Coach like Pat Riley, like Brad Stevens, like David Fizdale, buy into the system, the concept of team play, a commitment to defense, and a passion for winning.  THEY HATE TO FUCKING LOSE. 

We have a lot of raw young talent on this team.  Very raw.  We have some big time talent (go ahead and laugh) in the likes of Enes and Timmy, that are just crying out for tough love and positive reinforcement, raising the bar for them to raise their game. 

New York wants a team to root for, a culture to finally believe in. 

Defense?  Look for the open man?  That's New York hoops is all about. 

Play Hard.  Compete Hard.  Leave It All On The Floor. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on August 16, 2018, 07:47:09 PM
to me the light can now be seen at the end of the tunnel.  KP and Knox are young and will attract a type A free agent. next year.

two would be ideal.
Title: FEEL THE RELIEF
Post by: carlos123 on August 16, 2018, 10:14:00 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 16, 2018, 06:27:36 PM

I do not look with good humor upon what I take to be a moronic fixation upon tanking or whatever you want to call it, wherein the allure of a lottery pick trumps any other considerations. 

What makes this manifestly stupid POV so appalling to me, is that as far as our future draft position goes, let the chips fall where they may.   

Looking at picks 1-14 in this latest draft, damn near any of the players picked before or after #9, could have made a solid contribution to our roster going forward. 


(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/ZIb0JDB7SDfYUfcArbLrsDlAcRI=/0x0:3000x2235/920x613/filters:focal(1299x405:1779x885):format(webp)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/60827099/1015905448.jpg.0.jpg)
While I'm very happy with the Knox pick, I would have been much happier with Doncic. Time will tell.

(http://www.renegadetribune.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/soviet-mine-sweeper-t34tral.jpg)

"Don't take the tank so personally.  Let its studded wheels roll over your prone squishy body.  And feel the relief."
Kam the Champion Tank

(https://i.imgur.com/GKUFQ3U.jpg)

PLAY HARD. LOSE HARD
(http://khurasanminiatures.tripod.com/europe-46-49.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 17, 2018, 01:04:03 AM
Hope those tanks had a/c and a good stereo system.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 17, 2018, 03:53:12 AM
I think you’d have to trick them out yourself, Bo.

Speaking of tricks, I’m ready for some more summer runs videos to over analyze.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 17, 2018, 04:01:28 AM
I assume Hezonja took a pretty decent Knick 1 year offer in order to try to up his stock and cash in next year.  If there was a POR multi-year offer, it was likely low (3/$10M maybe 3/$12M I'd guess).
Lots of players took one year deals looking towards next years FA.
So I'm not buying the PerryFizz genius scenario.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 17, 2018, 05:33:06 AM
They certainly didn’t buck any trends with their signings. They drafted following a paradigm that seems to be paying off, so that’s something. They also didn’t lock us into our next overpay. It does look like they are creating that opportunity for themselves next summer. If they can get through the next offseason in a cool measured fashion avoiding major mistakes then I’ll be impressed.
Title: The Psychic Friends Network
Post by: chipstern on August 17, 2018, 02:48:21 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 17, 2018, 04:01:28 AM
I assume Hezonja took a pretty decent Knick 1 year offer in order to try to up his stock and cash in next year.  If there was a POR multi-year offer, it was likely low (3/$10M maybe 3/$12M I'd guess).
Lots of players took one year deals looking towards next years FA.
So I'm not buying the PerryFizz genius scenario.

I was unaware that you had a crystal ball which allows you to divine contract offers so accurately. 

Color me impressed. 
Title: Re: The Psychic Friends Network
Post by: carlos123 on August 17, 2018, 08:44:44 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 17, 2018, 02:48:21 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 17, 2018, 04:01:28 AM
I assume Hezonja took a pretty decent Knick 1 year offer in order to try to up his stock and cash in next year.  If there was a POR multi-year offer, it was likely low (3/$10M maybe 3/$12M I'd guess).
Lots of players took one year deals looking towards next years FA.
So I'm not buying the PerryFizz genius scenario.

I was unaware that you had a crystal ball which allows you to divine contract offers so accurately. 

Color me impressed.

(https://previews.123rf.com/images/vtupinamba/vtupinamba1001/vtupinamba100100204/6254676-wizard-and-his-crystal-ball-waiting-for-your-future-.jpg)
BoZ and his crystal ball.

He also has a tank with AC and a good stereo system...

PLAY HARD. LOSE HARD
(http://khurasanminiatures.tripod.com/europe-46-49.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 17, 2018, 10:09:16 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 15, 2018, 12:42:44 PM
Stop calling it a tank when our troops are about to do everything in their power - working their tails off - to win every possible game.

The Knicks read the forum? 


:)


OK its not a tank. 

Feel Better?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 17, 2018, 10:10:52 PM
That's what bodiddley looks like Carlos?

I always pictured him more as a MR. Spock.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 17, 2018, 10:29:47 PM
This is so outterly moronic:

Quote
Do any of you simple-minded motherfuckers really think that a 22 win team and a lottery pick is going to have a tremendous appeal to the likes of Kyrie Irving or Jimmy Butler? 

We are already hearing rumors they want to team up here before next season even has started.

Unless Fizdale sexually harasses everyone on the team we just have to not majorly screw things up.

What could derail our free agent summer dreams.... bringing back KP too soon in a misguided quixotic attempt to squeeze lemon juice from an orange.

Going all out for wins to shoot ourselves in the lottery foot is crazy.
Title: Free Agents
Post by: Kam on August 17, 2018, 10:44:28 PM
Lakers won 35 games.  Got LeBron.

Dallas won 24 games.  Got Jordan.

Seems like free agents figure THEY are the difference.

As it should be.

I think we will be ok.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 17, 2018, 11:00:04 PM
Quote from: Kam on August 17, 2018, 10:29:47 PM
This is so outterly moronic:

Quote
Do any of you simple-minded motherfuckers really think that a 22 win team and a lottery pick is going to have a tremendous appeal to the likes of Kyrie Irving or Jimmy Butler? 

We are already hearing rumors they want to team up here before next season even has started.

Unless Fizdale sexually harasses everyone on the team we just have to not majorly screw things up.

What could derail our free agent summer dreams.... bringing back KP too soon in a misguided quixotic attempt to squeeze lemon juice from an orange.

Going all out for wins to shoot ourselves in the lottery foot is crazy.

KP will come back when he and his agent say so

Thats the NBA these days
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 17, 2018, 11:28:29 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 17, 2018, 11:00:04 PM
Quote from: Kam on August 17, 2018, 10:29:47 PM
This is so outterly moronic:

Quote
Do any of you simple-minded motherfuckers really think that a 22 win team and a lottery pick is going to have a tremendous appeal to the likes of Kyrie Irving or Jimmy Butler? 

We are already hearing rumors they want to team up here before next season even has started.

Unless Fizdale sexually harasses everyone on the team we just have to not majorly screw things up.

What could derail our free agent summer dreams.... bringing back KP too soon in a misguided quixotic attempt to squeeze lemon juice from an orange.

Going all out for wins to shoot ourselves in the lottery foot is crazy.

KP will come back when he and his agent say so

Thats the NBA these days

So it doesn't matter what any of us say.

If Janis and Kristaps are in the tank camp or if they are in the prove yourself camp. 

More importantly where they stand in between those extremes. 

Nobody here wants to go 0-82.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 17, 2018, 11:32:57 PM
When we say tank we aren't saying play to lose.

It could be as simple as telling KP in January "We know you say you're ready to go, why don't you take another 2-3 weeks off just to make sure"

That one organizational decision could be all that is required for the "tank" to roll through
Title: Winning Culture
Post by: Kam on August 17, 2018, 11:45:18 PM
You know who had a winning culture?

Toronto.

But they dumped their coach of the year.

They had continuity with a happy duo who had grown to be close friends off the court in Lowry and DeRozan.

Why mess with a winning culture?

Because there's winning and then there is WINNING.

And if you have to take steps back to step forward you do it.
Title: Re: The Psychic Friends Network
Post by: bodiddley on August 18, 2018, 12:59:49 AM
Quote from: chipstern on August 17, 2018, 02:48:21 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 17, 2018, 04:01:28 AM
I assume Hezonja took a pretty decent Knick 1 year offer in order to try to up his stock and cash in next year.  If there was a POR multi-year offer, it was likely low (3/$10M maybe 3/$12M I'd guess).
Lots of players took one year deals looking towards next years FA.
So I'm not buying the PerryFizz genius scenario.

I was unaware that you had a crystal ball which allows you to divine contract offers so accurately. 

Color me impressed.

"Likely" and "I'd guess" and offering a range are hardly accurate words.

First, we don't know if POR even extended an offer to Zonja.
2nd, POR has money woes.  5th highest payroll in a small market with a middling playoff team.  They let two key bench guys walk over minor Dollars.

BLazers let very useful Ed Davissign with the Nets for a mere 1 year/$4.4M (https://www.blazersedge.com/2018/8/8/17663966/nba-free-agency-2018-trail-blazers-nba-offseason-ed-davis-bargain-nets).
He's a very good PnR/rebounding Big.

They also let RFA Shabazz Napier, their backup PG, sign a 2/$3.8M deal with BKY without matching.  Napier had a good 1st half of the season, filled in for Lillard pretty well. 

Both of these moves stemming from owing $27M next year to Evan Turner & Myers Leopard.  Turner, Mo Hark, and Aminu all play SF, while the latter two are SF/PF's like Zonja.

So POR cheaped out on two of their key backups (a total of $6.3M for next year), but they were going to offer unproven Hezonja a multi-year contract more than the Knix $6.5M one year dealio?

POR was trying to save money and lose salary.
So they let their cheap FA's walk.
All of that is why I'm skeptical POR made an offer to Zonja, or if they did I assume it was a bargain deal they tried to get him on.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 18, 2018, 12:01:11 PM
Money went to Nurkic and Curry

Swanigan and Collins are ready for Davis;s minutes.
Title: Be Still My Heart
Post by: chipstern on August 18, 2018, 01:57:08 PM
"We are already hearing rumors they want to team up here before next season even has started."

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/PowerfulAnchoredGoa-size_restricted.gif)
Title: Meanwhile, Back On Planet Earth
Post by: chipstern on August 18, 2018, 01:58:16 PM
Walker also saved flattering words for another French PG in Ntilikina, taken eighth in the 2017 draft. Walker was the ninth pick in 2011 — the same slot as Knicks rookie Kevin Knox.

“I like him,” Walker said of Ntilikina. “I thought he got better every day as the season went on. I’m a fan of him. He can really defend and has great length. You can see he’s getting better, man. That’s what this league is all about. I can tell he works on his game. Got to respect that.”
Title: Re: Meanwhile, Back On Planet Earth
Post by: Kam on August 18, 2018, 02:30:47 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 18, 2018, 01:58:16 PM


“I like him,” Walker said of Ntilikina. “I thought he got better every day as the season went on. I’m a fan of him. He can really defend and has great length. You can see he’s getting better, man. That’s what this league is all about. I can tell he works on his game. Got to respect that.”

That's why Frank is in my Cour Four


Kevin
Frank
Tim
Kristaps

All homegrown#1 picks. 

Tho Tim (the only non-lottery blue chipper had a few semesters abroad)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on August 18, 2018, 09:58:39 PM
Quote from: Kam on August 17, 2018, 10:10:52 PM
That's what bodiddley looks like Carlos?

I always pictured him more as a MR. Spock.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/21/India_statue_of_nataraja.jpg/800px-India_statue_of_nataraja.jpg)

Like Shiva, he has different forms:

Shiva's body is said to consist of five mantras, called the pañcabrahmans. As forms of God, each of these have their own names and distinct iconography:

Sadyojāta
Vāmadeva
Aghora
Tatpuruṣa
Īsāna

Plus two additional modern pañcabrahmans:

New Age crystal ball seer
MR. Spock
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 19, 2018, 03:04:13 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 18, 2018, 12:01:11 PM
Money went to Nurkic and Curry

Swanigan and Collins are ready for Davis;s minutes.

The other Scurry got a small 2/$5.6M contract from POR.
He missed all of last year rehabbing, so was available on the cheap.

Nurkic's 4/$48 seems reasonable.
It's the Turner and Leonard contracts clogging up cap space.
Myers really needs a new team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 19, 2018, 10:35:58 AM
A good read:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/17/obituaries/johnny-kline-globetrotter-turned-advocate-is-dead-at-86.html
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 19, 2018, 02:06:18 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 19, 2018, 03:04:13 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 18, 2018, 12:01:11 PM
Money went to Nurkic and Curry

Swanigan and Collins are ready for Davis;s minutes.

The other Scurry got a small 2/$5.6M contract from POR.
He missed all of last year rehabbing, so was available on the cheap.

Nurkic's 4/$48 seems reasonable.
It's the Turner and Leonard contracts clogging up cap space.
Myers really needs a new team.

Dont confuse things

They couldnt do anything with Turner and Leonard

Allowing the 2 restricted guys to leave (which was the issue) gave more room for Nurkic and Curry.

Lillard hated losing Davis.  Hated losing Napier

We will have to see how Curry and Baldwin turn out and how the guys getting Ed Davis's minutes play before killing POR on their moves.

Does Nurkic get the same pact, does Curry get inked if Hezonja comes on board?  Maybe not.  I dont think saying Hezonja was never offered by Portland (or POR never discussed 2 years with him) is proper thought.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on August 19, 2018, 03:55:14 PM
Ed Davis is good but of course you let him go to free up minutes for Zach Collins.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 19, 2018, 04:38:22 PM
Yeah. Big picture.  Collins can play.

Keep the big guy Nurkic happy, first and foremost.  He and Lillard are your bread and butter.
Title: Noah's Arc
Post by: chipstern on August 19, 2018, 07:00:26 PM
https://nypost.com/2018/08/18/knicks-new-rebounding-machine-looks-to-reboot-career/ (https://nypost.com/2018/08/18/knicks-new-rebounding-machine-looks-to-reboot-career/)

Kanter
Hezonja/Vonleh
Knox
Hardaway
Ntilikina

First off the bench [a competitive scrum here].

Kornet/Robinson
Vonleh/Hazonja, Thomas
Burke/Mudiay, Dotson

Personally, I think Hezonja would be more valuable as a sixth man coming off the bench at SF/PF, but I suspect Fizz wants to amp up his confidence.  Vonleh might be a nice stablemate for Kornet. 

Lots of options.  Month and change before Fizz gets 'em in the playpen and tosses some raw meat to the dawgs. 

I could also see Burke playing off the ball with Mudiay at the point. 
Title: Re: Noah's Arc
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 19, 2018, 07:23:06 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 19, 2018, 07:00:26 PM
https://nypost.com/2018/08/18/knicks-new-rebounding-machine-looks-to-reboot-career/ (https://nypost.com/2018/08/18/knicks-new-rebounding-machine-looks-to-reboot-career/)

Kanter
Hezonja/Vonleh
Knox
Hardaway
Ntilikina

First off the bench [a competitive scrum here].

Kornet/Robinson
Vonleh/Hazonja, Thomas
Burke/Mudiay, Dotson

Personally, I think Hezonja would be more valuable as a sixth man coming off the bench at SF/PF, but I suspect Fizz wants to amp up his confidence.  Vonleh might be a nice stablemate for Kornet. 

Lots of options.  Month and change before Fizz gets 'em in the playpen and tosses some raw meat to the dawgs. 

I could also see Burke playing off the ball with Mudiay at the point.

Guess or preference?

I think Fiz likes Mudiay.  You have said yourself.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 19, 2018, 10:12:09 PM
I think a good way to preserve Mario’s confidence is to keep him from matching up with starting power forwards. The first bench wing role makes the most sense if Knox starts at small forward. When he got posted up, Mario allowed his man to score 70% of the time. Since we know Kanter will provide little to no help, it’s a very bad idea to play them together at center and power forward.

Mudiay has a lot of guys to outplay if he wants to carve out a significant role for himself.
Title: Kanter and Thomas
Post by: Kam on August 19, 2018, 10:24:25 PM
Considering Lance can be bought out for $1 mil next summer, he is essentially an ending contract.

At some point near the deadline we will probably hear rumors of (Insert Star player on under-performing team here) for Kanter and Thomas

Maybe Butler.
Title: Re: Kanter and Thomas
Post by: chipstern on August 20, 2018, 12:40:11 AM
Quote from: Kam on August 19, 2018, 10:24:25 PM
Considering Lance can be bought out for $1 mil next summer, he is essentially an ending contract.

At some point near the deadline we will probably hear rumors of (Insert Star player on under-performing team here) for Kanter and Thomas

Maybe Butler.

Bull

Shit
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 20, 2018, 12:50:42 AM
Quote
Kanter
Hezonja
Knox
Hardaway
Ntilikina

If you start Mud over Franc, that would be some ghastly defense.

And all of your primary defenders -- Franc, Vonleh, Courtly, Lance -- come off the bench.

Figure Hardaway & Kanter are locks to start.
Knox probably a starter because his development is important.
Then you need to get at least one of Vonleh or Franc in the starting 5.  Maybe you need both.  Gotta have someone setting the tone and trying on the less glamorous end.

Kant
Vonleh/Lance
Knox
Tim Jr.
Franc

Provides some balance.
Let's Tim and Knox offend.
Encourages Franc to shoot more.
Our Bigs clean the glass and get putbacks.

Then the bench offers up Burke's scoring paired with Courtly's muted balanced game.  Zonja shooting.  Muddy's erraticism.  Plus some Lance D.  [Kornet and Robinson in limited spot duty as Knix small out]

Mixes and matches some defenders and scorers on both units.

I kind of have Muddy in a mystery role until we see if he's improved on anything and/or until we move Courtly.
Title: Re: Kanter and Thomas
Post by: bodiddley on August 20, 2018, 12:58:30 AM
Quote from: Kam on August 19, 2018, 10:24:25 PM
Considering Lance can be bought out for $1 mil next summer, he is essentially an ending contract.

At some point near the deadline we will probably hear rumors of (Insert Star player on under-performing team here) for Kanter and Thomas

Maybe Butler.

This makes no sense . . .
Title: So you'd say it was
Post by: Kam on August 20, 2018, 01:27:06 AM
Highly illogical?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 20, 2018, 02:26:20 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 20, 2018, 12:50:42 AM
Quote
Kanter
Hezonja
Knox
Hardaway
Ntilikina

If you start Mud over Franc, that would be some ghastly defense.

And all of your primary defenders -- Franc, Vonleh, Courtly, Lance -- come off the bench.

Figure Hardaway & Kanter are locks to start.
Knox probably a starter because his development is important.
Then you need to get at least one of Vonleh or Franc in the starting 5.  Maybe you need both.  Gotta have someone setting the tone and trying on the less glamorous end.

Kant
Vonleh/Lance
Knox
Tim Jr.
Franc

Provides some balance.
Let's Tim and Knox offend.
Encourages Franc to shoot more.
Our Bigs clean the glass and get putbacks.

Then the bench offers up Burke's scoring paired with Courtly's muted balanced game.  Zonja shooting.  Muddy's erraticism.  Plus some Lance D.  [Kornet and Robinson in limited spot duty as Knix small out]

Mixes and matches some defenders and scorers on both units.

I kind of have Muddy in a mystery role until we see if he's improved on anything and/or until we move Courtly.

Makes sense in terms of a balance between offense and defense.  Hezonja as a sixth man, plugged in at SF/PF. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 20, 2018, 03:33:03 AM
I know Kanter gets a big salary this year, he’s fully dedicated, plays with heart, is among the best in his areas of strength, but I hope to see either Kornet or Robinson surpass and surplant him as #1 in the pecking order.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 20, 2018, 06:24:03 AM
I suspect Kornet and Robinson have a ways to go to even be decent rotation players.

My starting 5 of: Kant - Vonleh - Knox - Tim Jr. - Franc
is decidedly weak on 3-point shooting.
But once KZ comes back, plug him in at PF and the D and spacing improve significantly.

Fizz has mentioned speeding up the pace which could mean Burke gets a crack at starting PG.  But that craters the D, doesn't help with 3's, and means one of Franc/Mud get lost in the mix.

I don't really have much of a read on Fizz, except that he said he wants a genuine SF at SF.  And seems to want to push, which could help make up some for our lack of outside shooting.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 20, 2018, 01:28:27 PM
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.............
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: vitriTig on August 20, 2018, 02:37:41 PM
: , ,     (https://vitri.com.ua/lyuminoterapiya-svet-protiv-depressii/)
(http://www.domashnijspasalon.ru/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/88.jpg) (https://vitri.com.ua/lyuminoterapiya-svet-protiv-depressii/)
  2018-2019:       
: , ,     (https://vitri.com.ua/chto-rasskazat-rebenku-pro-ded-moroza/)
    2018-2019,    .   2018-2019      .     .
: , ,     (https://vitri.com.ua/otkuda-beretsya-cellyulit/)
           .      ,   ,           :         .    ,        ,       ,        2018-2019.            .     ,      ,  ,   ,    .         ,           2018-2019   .           2018-2019,               .         ,    2018-2019,      ,        .    2018-2019    ?       .    2018-2019         . ,   ,             2018-2019.     2018-2019          ,   ,    . ,         2018-2019  ,          ,   ,          .              ,       .         2018-2019.   2018-2019      .          2018-2019,     . -      , , , , ,   ,  .   ,     2018-2019  ,    ,    ,    .    ,      ,            . 2018-2019                 .     ,         (   ),         2018-2019.  2018-2019        .     2018-2019         . ,           ,    .    ,  2018-2019           .   , ,     .        .                   .     2018-2019    ,   .              .     ,         ,      .       ,      ,      .         ,      .    ,      ,         2018-2019.   2018-2019          .   ,   ,   ,  ,         .      ,         ,    ,        .   2018-2019     .          ,      .       ,    ,        .       .     2018-2019       .        2018-2019           .        ,    ,           2018-2019 .
: , ,     (https://vitri.com.ua/lyuminoterapiya-svet-protiv-depressii/)
Title: Re: Vitri
Post by: carlos123 on August 20, 2018, 02:56:59 PM
Vitri, you the masseuse or the massaged? One of the stones? A flower? Maybe a candle?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 20, 2018, 04:24:50 PM
Maybe we should all just relax about next year...

I, for one, am rather amped to see Kornet, Vonleh, Knox, Hardaway, and Ntilikina take the floor. I think Fizz can meld those individuals into a highly effective unit. The success will hinge on getting efficiency from four guys who shot under .420 from the field and a rookie. I think it can be done running the kind of plays Fizz ran in Memphis, especially if fundamentals truly get developed in camp and preseason.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 20, 2018, 04:40:22 PM
Nice

Now get excited about the others and we will be on the same page.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 20, 2018, 05:33:21 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 20, 2018, 04:24:50 PM
Maybe we should all just relax about next year...

I, for one, am rather amped to see Kornet, Vonleh, Knox, Hardaway, and Ntilikina take the floor. I think Fizz can meld those individuals into a highly effective unit. The success will hinge on getting efficiency from four guys who shot under .420 from the field and a rookie. I think it can be done running the kind of plays Fizz ran in Memphis, especially if fundamentals truly get developed in camp and preseason.

SIGH

Yet again, you have essayed an alternate universe in which Enes Kanter is not a part of this team going forward, let alone as part of the starting five for 2018-2019.   

You are my Brother, Facil, Brother Kam, too, but this sniffy, dismissive tonality (by my admittedly lesser lights) has gotten very old.  VERY old. 

Many have presumed, rather prematurely it seems, that Kanter is out of here. 

He is, until further notice, our starting center. 

Whether Fizz and Perry (and Enes) choose to move on, or to come to some sort of ongoing commitment moving forward, would seem to me, TO BE PREDICATED ON HOW HE PLAYS AND HOW HE IMPROVES IN 2018-2019. 

I will accept the mockery of others, this being a mostly free country, when I state what should seem obvious, which is that Kanter raised his game as a Knick, as did another player universally pissed on, Timmy Hardaway. 

They are both only 26.  Both have room for significant improvement under Coach Fizdale's watch. 

Oh right, old dogs, ergo, no new tricks.   

Hey, dogs gonna bark, and doubters going sniff.  My opinion has no more legitimacy than anyone else's on this forum. 

It's all chin music, and it's all good. 

But listening to members of our congregation rooting for the lottery, while others, as is their wont, piss on those players they view as busts or hypes or place holders for cap space (Ntilikina, Hardaway, Kanter) really fries my onions. 

Fizdale has proclaimed a clean slate going in for every Knick on the roster starting with training camp. 

It's called H-O-P-E, and until proven otherwise, it is nice to have some for a fucking change. 

Not hope for the fucking lottery, but hope for progress, commitment, a winning culture going forward. 

Would but that the team's fickle fans and amateur GMs felt the same. 

All of these newbies and reclamation projects share one thing.  They want to prove themselves, to each other, to the coach and to the fans of New York.  They want to be part of a team Knicks fans can be proud of.  And last time I checked, Enes bled blue and orange.  He is a competitor.  We need more like him, not less. 

I'm a pop pom gurl, right?

My devalued two cents. 

We now return to our regularly scheduled pogrom.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 20, 2018, 07:00:24 PM
I was initially with you Chip but not after hearing Knicks wouldnt give Enes a long term offer that he sought

I think he is a possible deadline deal guy - out of NY - if we can get any picks.


Potential free agent centers for 2019-20  (many wont be available   *unrestricted)


Horford
Pachulia*
B Lopez*
Biyombo
McGee*
Koufos*
M Gasol
Asik
Jordan*
Howard
P Gasol
Udoh*
R Lopez*
J Smith*
OQuinn*
Valenciunus
Cousins*
Gortat*
Kanter*
Nene
Baynes
Noel
Dedmon*
Ajinca*
Birch
Whiteside
Turner
Cauley Stein
Marjanovic*
Mejri*
Zubac
Hammons
D Jones
D Davis
G hernangomez
Poeltl
Onuaku
Maker
Zizic
Markaanen
Z Collins
Bradley
Kornet
Patton Adebayo
Allen
Bryant
D Johnson
Anigbogu




Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 20, 2018, 08:39:26 PM
Good Knicks on MSG - 8 and 10 PM

early season win and one from March
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 20, 2018, 08:46:23 PM
I’d just say that Hardaway is as close as we have to a locked in starter at this point.
Title: Enes and the Lotto
Post by: carlos123 on August 20, 2018, 09:32:27 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 20, 2018, 05:33:21 PM

SIGH

Yet again, you have essayed an alternate universe in which Enes Kanter is not a part of this team going forward, let alone as part of the starting five for 2018-2019.   

Many have presumed, rather prematurely it seems, that Kanter is out of here. 

He is, until further notice, our starting center. 

... Kanter raised his game as a Knick, as did another player universally pissed on, Timmy Hardaway. 

But listening to members of our congregation rooting for the lottery, while others, as is their wont, piss on those players they view as busts or hypes or place holders for cap space (Ntilikina, Hardaway, Kanter) really fries my onions. 

All of these newbies and reclamation projects share one thing.  They want to prove themselves, to each other, to the coach and to the fans of New York.  They want to be part of a team Knicks fans can be proud of.  And last time I checked, Enes bled blue and orange.  He is a competitor.  We need more like him, not less.


Chip, some of us tankers love Enes. At least I do, and hope he remains a Knick.

We also want the team to play hard and improve, but a playoff run in 2018-19 is just not realistic. Therefore we want the best lotto position we can get, hopefully by losing a lot of games by 1 point or 2. Not by playing to lose, but because there's a bunch of new players who are very young and haven't played together.

Then we get the best lotto pick and a transcendent FA or two, and run over Boston and Philly in 2019-20. Pompomgurly enough for you? I wanna revert to positive pussy #3, after you and Kam who share #1 & 2.

PLAY HARD. LOSE HARD
(http://khurasanminiatures.tripod.com/europe-46-49.jpg)


"Don't take the tank so personally.  Let its studded wheels roll over your prone squishy body.  And feel the relief."
Kam the Champion Tank
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 20, 2018, 10:27:20 PM
Johnny One Note

Roll over THIS. 
Title: 1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...Expiring Contracts
Post by: chipstern on August 20, 2018, 10:42:37 PM
Of course Enes wanted a long term contract. 

Knicks were not inclined to given ANYBODY a long term contract. 

Enes tested the market, and found what the THREE D's--DeAndre and DeMarcus and Dwight--discovered. 

With the exception of Kristaps, Kevin, Frank and Mitchell, everyone is on the clock. 

I think it is premature define Enes as in or out. 

The trading deadline will mean pins and needles for EVERYONE, not just Enes.  A lot of one and done contracts.  And there will be a lot of give and take between the Knicks and their free agents, as players are taking a chance on the Knicks, and Knicks are taking a flyer on players.  You have to think there is some understanding between players and the Knicks going forward.  Not that anyone is making guarantees to each other.  Just open lines of communication. 

In any event, Enes has considerable passion about remaining a Knick. 

Prove it, kid.  Prove it Enes.  Make your case.

Ditto Baker, Mudiay, Burke, Trier, Hicks, Hezonja, Vonleh...

That's SEVEN players besides Enes with expiring contracts (or, as with Mudiay, the Knicks can choose to pick up his option...or not).  Significantly, yes, Enes' contract is for what, $19 million?  Thus all of the conjecture and scenarios. 

We shall see. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 20, 2018, 10:43:15 PM
Riiiiight - then after losing all those close games the following year you start to win them

heh

Close losses suck.  Want the kids that w ill be with us to know how to close.

I expect .500 record or better in games decided by 4 or less.  THAT - not looking at a roster - will show promise.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on August 20, 2018, 10:52:21 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 20, 2018, 08:46:23 PM
I’d just say that Hardaway is as close as we have to a locked in starter at this point.

Based on his abilities......or based on his contract?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 20, 2018, 11:00:17 PM
Both

By ability to put the ball in the hoop nobody is close.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 21, 2018, 12:18:32 AM
Though he'll also lead the team in airballs ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 21, 2018, 01:26:08 AM
He’s also our most prolific pouter/sulker. There’s a non-zero chance he doesn’t stay on Fizz’s good side or slumps his way from starting to the bench.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 21, 2018, 06:22:02 AM
Happy thoughts about Hardaway. Let’s give him some stability at PG for a while, along with steady health and see how he performs.

Now to extend some cap space.

I’m assuming Noah is stretched regardless & we have an eye to giving Lance his million and free agency in a year the cap jumps at least 8 million. We my keep Lance for 2019-20 & pay out the stretch if we don’t like our options with free agents and trades next summer.

To create some more space we could offer Lee, Baker, and Burke for Shumpert and Zach Randolph.

This saves Sacramento about 4 million this year, but costs them Lee’s salary in addition to the 30 something million the currently have committed (to 9 guys, which is pretty damn good). So they’d still be in double-max territory.

Lee would be the sole productive vet of any league tenure on the Kings. As a floor stretcher, diligent defender, and passionate competitor who takes care of his body and has been remarkably consistent throughout his career, he can mentor Jackson, Bogdonovic, Artis, McLemore, and Hield. It would be similar to what we’ve asked and would ask of him if he stays in NY. He’d get more minutes backing up Buddy than Tim most likely. Tim has actually had some career molding already and is more of a finished product. In addition, Burke would be an upgrade to backup pg over Frank Mason, who they’d be able to keep as 3rd pg unless he beats out Burke.

We’d be down to 15 contracts. I’d also cut Shump who I don’t believe is really healthy and get Shabbaz Mohammed for a 2 year minimum deal, or 1 year with team option.

Kanter Kornet  KP
Vonleh ZBo Robinson
Knox Hezonja Thomas
Hardaway Dotson Mohammed
Ntilikina Mudiay Allen 

Next year it would be

KP
Robinson
Knox Mohammed
Hardaway Dotson
Ntilikina

With QO’s to Kornet & Mudiay, a first and second round pick, and about $60 million to work with under the cap.

This year we’d have more positional depth and balance.

Not sure if it’s more or less likely than Arbines and Singler.

I’d be willing to add a 2nd rounder in 2020 or later to either of those deals.

 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 21, 2018, 08:04:49 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 21, 2018, 12:18:32 AM
Though he'll also lead the team in airballs ...

Would make sense
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on August 21, 2018, 08:07:35 AM
I think Burke starts for the first 50-60 games.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 21, 2018, 09:06:32 AM
The upside appears to be there.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on August 21, 2018, 09:46:56 AM
Cribbing from an online discussion, and paraphrasing. Who would be the Knicks starting five under the following rules:

- one who can reasonably be viewed as the GOAT
- one star from the team's golden era
- one founding father / OG player, perhaps forgotten by modern fans
- one player with a strong local connection
- one underdog type player
- the coach is the one who was most beloved by the fans

Additionally, the players should form something approximating an actual starting five (ie, cannot start Ewing/Reed/Oakley/DeBusschere/Tyson)


My take:


PG - Clyde (golden era)
SG - Starks (underdog)
SF - King (local connection)
PF - Harry the Horse (founding father)
C - Ewing (GOAT)
Coach - JVG

Toughest pick, really, was local connection (Melo, Marbury, Mark Jackson, Richie Guerin, Carl Braun)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on August 21, 2018, 10:12:26 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on August 21, 2018, 09:46:56 AM
Cribbing from an online discussion, and paraphrasing. Who would be the Knicks starting five under the following rules:

- one who can reasonably be viewed as the GOAT
- one star from the team's golden era
- one founding father / OG player, perhaps forgotten by modern fans
- one player with a strong local connection
- one underdog type player
- the coach is the one who was most beloved by the fans

Additionally, the players should form something approximating an actual starting five (ie, cannot start Ewing/Reed/Oakley/DeBusschere/Tyson)


My take:


PG - Clyde (golden era)
SG - Starks (underdog)
SF - King (local connection)
PF - Harry the Horse (founding father)
C - Ewing (GOAT)
Coach - JVG

Toughest pick, really, was local connection (Melo, Marbury, Mark Jackson, Richie Guerin, Carl Braun)

Boston

PG - Cousy (local)
SG - Sharman (founding father)
SF - Cornbread (funderdog)
PF - Bird (GOAT)
C - Russell (golden era)
Coach - Auerbach

You could shuffle a lot of guys there, especially for Sharman or Cornbread.


Toronto

PG - Cory Joseph (local)
SG - Demar (golden era)
SF - Vince (founding father)
PF - JYD (underdog)
C - Bosh (GOAT)


Brooklyn / NJ

PG - Kidd (GOAT)
PG - Starbury (local)
SF - Dr J (founding father)
PF - KMart (golden era)
C- Jayson Williams (underdog)


Philly

SG - Greer (golden era)
SG - Toney (underdog)
SF - Dr J (GOAT)
PF - Schayes (founding father)
C- Wilt (local)

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 21, 2018, 10:45:33 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 21, 2018, 06:22:02 AM
Hardaway. Let’s give him some stability at PG for a while, along with steady health and see how he performs.

I've made mention of this as well.
Tim Jr. might look better with solid or league average PG play.
And as always it helps to stay healthy.

Fizz apparently wants to push the pace which could indicate Burke starting at PG.  Wouldn't surprise me, but our defense will be ugly, and one of Franc/Mud gets buried as 5th G.

I'd go with Franc.
But I guess it's more important who starts at PG after KZ is back.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 21, 2018, 12:25:49 PM
https://hoopshype.com/2018/08/20/new-york-knicks-courtney-lee-nba-trade-rumors/
Article touting Courtly and his trade value.
Mentions that PHI and WAS were supposedly interested.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 21, 2018, 01:13:57 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on August 21, 2018, 10:12:26 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on August 21, 2018, 09:46:56 AM
Cribbing from an online discussion, and paraphrasing. Who would be the Knicks starting five under the following rules:

- one who can reasonably be viewed as the GOAT
- one star from the team's golden era
- one founding father / OG player, perhaps forgotten by modern fans
- one player with a strong local connection
- one underdog type player
- the coach is the one who was most beloved by the fans

Additionally, the players should form something approximating an actual starting five (ie, cannot start Ewing/Reed/Oakley/DeBusschere/Tyson)


My take:


PG - Clyde (golden era)
SG - Starks (underdog)
SF - King (local connection)
PF - Harry the Horse (founding father)
C - Ewing (GOAT)
Coach - JVG

Toughest pick, really, was local connection (Melo, Marbury, Mark Jackson, Richie Guerin, Carl Braun)

Boston

PG - Cousy (local)
SG - Sharman (founding father)
SF - Cornbread (funderdog)
PF - Bird (GOAT)
C - Russell (golden era)
Coach - Auerbach

You could shuffle a lot of guys there, especially for Sharman or Cornbread.


Toronto

PG - Cory Joseph (local)
SG - Demar (golden era)
SF - Vince (founding father)
PF - JYD (underdog)
C - Bosh (GOAT)


Brooklyn / NJ

PG - Kidd (GOAT)
PG - Starbury (local)
SF - Dr J (founding father)
PF - KMart (golden era)
C- Jayson Williams (underdog)


Philly

SG - Greer (golden era)
SG - Toney (underdog)
SF - Dr J (GOAT)
PF - Schayes (founding father)
C- Wilt (local)

Cornbread?

How about Paul Pierce?

Also, Larry Bird played the 3-spot.  McHale played the 4-spot, as did Tommy Heinsohn and Paul Silas. 

Oh, and Ewing over Reed?  Starks over Monroe or Barnett?  JVG over Holtzman? 

To each his own.  A matter of our relative ages, I suspect. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 21, 2018, 01:16:15 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on August 21, 2018, 09:46:56 AM
Cribbing from an online discussion, and paraphrasing. Who would be the Knicks starting five under the following rules:

- one who can reasonably be viewed as the GOAT
- one star from the team's golden era
- one founding father / OG player, perhaps forgotten by modern fans
- one player with a strong local connection
- one underdog type player
- the coach is the one who was most beloved by the fans

Additionally, the players should form something approximating an actual starting five (ie, cannot start Ewing/Reed/Oakley/DeBusschere/Tyson)


My take:


PG - Clyde (golden era)
SG - Starks (underdog)
SF - King (local connection)
PF - Harry the Horse (founding father)
C - Ewing (GOAT)
Coach - JVG

Toughest pick, really, was local connection (Melo, Marbury, Mark Jackson, Richie Guerin, Carl Braun)

Ewing
Frazier
Fredette
King
Nauls
Holzman
Title: Re: 1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...Expiring Contracts
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 21, 2018, 01:48:33 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 20, 2018, 10:42:37 PM
Of course Enes wanted a long term contract. 

DECIDED he wants to be here

That's the point.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on August 21, 2018, 02:37:19 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 21, 2018, 01:13:57 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on August 21, 2018, 10:12:26 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on August 21, 2018, 09:46:56 AM
Cribbing from an online discussion, and paraphrasing. Who would be the Knicks starting five under the following rules:

- one who can reasonably be viewed as the GOAT
- one star from the team's golden era
- one founding father / OG player, perhaps forgotten by modern fans
- one player with a strong local connection
- one underdog type player
- the coach is the one who was most beloved by the fans

Additionally, the players should form something approximating an actual starting five (ie, cannot start Ewing/Reed/Oakley/DeBusschere/Tyson)


My take:


PG - Clyde (golden era)
SG - Starks (underdog)
SF - King (local connection)
PF - Harry the Horse (founding father)
C - Ewing (GOAT)
Coach - JVG

Toughest pick, really, was local connection (Melo, Marbury, Mark Jackson, Richie Guerin, Carl Braun)


Cornbread?

How about Paul Pierce?

Also, Larry Bird played the 3-spot.  McHale played the 4-spot, as did Tommy Heinsohn and Paul Silas. 

Oh, and Ewing over Reed?  Starks over Monroe or Barnett?  JVG over Holtzman? 

To each his own.  A matter of our relative ages, I suspect.

Pierce wasn't really an underdog, as he was a lottery pick who was the centre of the team for years.

Bird was a 3, sure (he'd be a 4 today), but just wanted to make room for Maxwell.

Monroe, like Pierce, doesn't count as the underdog type I was looking for over Starks. I agree that he was a better player than Starks.

Red over JVG makes more sense, I'll concede.

Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 21, 2018, 01:16:15 PM

Ewing
Frazier
Fredette
King
Nauls
Holzman

So the same team (I'll concede Holzman, as I said) save for Nauls over Gallatin and....Jimmer?
Title: Richie Guerin & The Big O
Post by: chipstern on August 21, 2018, 04:31:07 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on August 21, 2018, 02:37:19 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 21, 2018, 01:13:57 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on August 21, 2018, 10:12:26 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on August 21, 2018, 09:46:56 AM
Cribbing from an online discussion, and paraphrasing. Who would be the Knicks starting five under the following rules:

- one who can reasonably be viewed as the GOAT
- one star from the team's golden era
- one founding father / OG player, perhaps forgotten by modern fans
- one player with a strong local connection
- one underdog type player
- the coach is the one who was most beloved by the fans

Additionally, the players should form something approximating an actual starting five (ie, cannot start Ewing/Reed/Oakley/DeBusschere/Tyson)


My take:


PG - Clyde (golden era)
SG - Starks (underdog)
SF - King (local connection)
PF - Harry the Horse (founding father)
C - Ewing (GOAT)
Coach - JVG

Toughest pick, really, was local connection (Melo, Marbury, Mark Jackson, Richie Guerin, Carl Braun)


Cornbread?

How about Paul Pierce?

Also, Larry Bird played the 3-spot.  McHale played the 4-spot, as did Tommy Heinsohn and Paul Silas. 

Oh, and Ewing over Reed?  Starks over Monroe or Barnett?  JVG over Holtzman? 

To each his own.  A matter of our relative ages, I suspect.

Pierce wasn't really an underdog, as he was a lottery pick who was the centre of the team for years.

Bird was a 3, sure (he'd be a 4 today), but just wanted to make room for Maxwell.

Monroe, like Pierce, doesn't count as the underdog type I was looking for over Starks. I agree that he was a better player than Starks.

Red over JVG makes more sense, I'll concede.

Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 21, 2018, 01:16:15 PM

Ewing
Frazier
Fredette
King
Nauls
Holzman

So the same team (I'll concede Holzman, as I said) save for Nauls over Gallatin and....Jimmer?

Hard to argue with Jimmer, given his extensive resume as a Knick.

I guess I didn't understand your format. 

I'm old enough to remember those Knicks teams with Willie Naulls, and Jumping Johnny Green.  Dick McGuire was the PG on all of those '50s Knicks teams that challenged for the championship year after year, but kept running into George Mikan's Lakers.  I was born in 1952, so I was not really conscious of those Knicks teams or much else, save for Crusader Rabbit & Ragland T. Tiger, Abbott & Costello and The Lone Ranger. 

Tell you who I do remember as a Knick, was Richie Guerin who was a scoring machine from all over the floor. In 1961-62, he averaged 29.2 ppg, 6.4 boards and 6.5 assists.   
Alas, even then, to be a Knicks fan was to suffer. 

I remember attending a Knicks-Royals game at the old Garden on 50th & 8th; Lincoln's Birthday, 1961...I had just turned 9. 

Knicks jumped on the Royals in the first quarter by a score of 43-21.  Yikes.  Naulls, Green and Guerin were lighting it up.  But the Royals had this Oscar Robertson fellow.

Guerin scored 24.  Oscar scored 32.

Royals won...wait for it...Wait For It...WAIT FOR IT...105-104. 

Sound familiar? 

How do I remember all of this.

All I really remembered was that the Knicks were killing, Oscar stepped up, and they lost by one. 

I told this story to BoD, and he was kind enough to track down the original box score and pass it on to me. 

Loved those Royals teams of the 1960s with Oscar and Wayne Embry and Jack Twyman and Jerry Lucas.  Great teams, however, like those great Philly teams (save for 1966-67), they always ran into those damn Celtics.  They just didn't have the bench depth...or Bill Russell. 

Still, when people genuflect about Michael Jordan, and not to take anything away from him or his six rings, but the greatest of all time? 

Sorry, no sale...OSCAR ROBERTSON. 

For all intents and purposes, the man was a walking triple double night in, night out, season after season.  Great physical gifts, but what really set him apart was his intuition, his court vision, his genius for the game.  A very heady player.  And at 6'5", a big, powerful guard, with a great all around game: 25.7 ppg-7.5 rebounds-9.5 assists, with a career .838 FT%, playing 42.2 mpg over 14 seasons. 

Y'all know that butt bump Mark Jackson used to like to deploy to set up midrange shots?  That was Oscar Robertson's bread and butter.  He could get any shot he wanted, any time he wanted. 

Finally, let me preface this observation by cautioning that what follows is a one-dimensional, superficial comparison.  I reckon Kiid will like it though...fair enough. 

In looking at the Knicks roster, in terms of a physical specimen, a 6'5" guard with a big powerful body that reminds me of Oscar. 

EMMANUEL MUDIAY

Body.  Not game.  BODY. 

As for the kid's game, we shall see, won't we. 

I am intrigued to see how the competition between Burke, Ntilikina and Mudiay plays out.  If we could splice genetic material from all three into one PG, we'd be shitting in tall cotton, yes we would. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 21, 2018, 09:06:48 PM
Mudiay employed a nice turnaround J last season

Re:  the poll and Jimmer

We could take down Clyde and Jimmer and replace them with Lin (underdog) and Earl (player from golden era) if you like
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 21, 2018, 09:07:32 PM
Lin, Monroe, King, Nauls, Ewing
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 21, 2018, 09:14:56 PM
GOAT - Clyde
Golden era - Willis
Local - King
Underdog - Mason
Founding father - way before my time.
Title: Re: 1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...Expiring Contracts
Post by: Kam on August 21, 2018, 09:39:33 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 20, 2018, 10:42:37 PM
Of course Enes wanted a long term contract. 

Knicks were not inclined to given ANYBODY a long term contract. 

Enes tested the market, and found what the THREE D's--DeAndre and DeMarcus and Dwight--discovered. 

With the exception of Kristaps, Kevin, Frank and Mitchell, everyone is on the clock. 

I think it is premature define Enes as in or out. 

The trading deadline will mean pins and needles for EVERYONE, not just Enes.  A lot of one and done contracts.  And there will be a lot of give and take between the Knicks and their free agents, as players are taking a chance on the Knicks, and Knicks are taking a flyer on players.  You have to think there is some understanding between players and the Knicks going forward.  Not that anyone is making guarantees to each other.  Just open lines of communication. 

In any event, Enes has considerable passion about remaining a Knick. 

Prove it, kid.  Prove it Enes.  Make your case.

Ditto Baker, Mudiay, Burke, Trier, Hicks, Hezonja, Vonleh...

That's SEVEN players besides Enes with expiring contracts (or, as with Mudiay, the Knicks can choose to pick up his option...or not).  Significantly, yes, Enes' contract is for what, $19 million?  Thus all of the conjecture and scenarios. 

We shall see.

You are obsessed with enes.  The original post said he was excited to see the youngsters Frank, Knox etc... to which you took great exception as if he was setting his starting lineup.  You read that wrong and you inserted your enes bias into a post where he wasn't even mentioned.

This is the post by Fac that got your Enes antlers up:

Quote
I, for one, am rather amped to see Kornet, Vonleh, Knox, Hardaway, and Ntilikina take the floor.


DOES THAT SAY STARTING AT CENTER Koronet Pizza?  No.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 21, 2018, 11:19:26 PM
I think it implies that is his preferred lineup, yes.
Title: Re: 1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...Expiring Contracts
Post by: chipstern on August 21, 2018, 11:29:23 PM
Quote from: Kam on August 21, 2018, 09:39:33 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 20, 2018, 10:42:37 PM
Of course Enes wanted a long term contract. 

Knicks were not inclined to given ANYBODY a long term contract. 

Enes tested the market, and found what the THREE D's--DeAndre and DeMarcus and Dwight--discovered. 

With the exception of Kristaps, Kevin, Frank and Mitchell, everyone is on the clock. 

I think it is premature define Enes as in or out. 

The trading deadline will mean pins and needles for EVERYONE, not just Enes.  A lot of one and done contracts.  And there will be a lot of give and take between the Knicks and their free agents, as players are taking a chance on the Knicks, and Knicks are taking a flyer on players.  You have to think there is some understanding between players and the Knicks going forward.  Not that anyone is making guarantees to each other.  Just open lines of communication. 

In any event, Enes has considerable passion about remaining a Knick. 

Prove it, kid.  Prove it Enes.  Make your case.

Ditto Baker, Mudiay, Burke, Trier, Hicks, Hezonja, Vonleh...

That's SEVEN players besides Enes with expiring contracts (or, as with Mudiay, the Knicks can choose to pick up his option...or not).  Significantly, yes, Enes' contract is for what, $19 million?  Thus all of the conjecture and scenarios. 

We shall see.

You are obsessed with enes.  The original post said he was excited to see the youngsters Frank, Knox etc... to which you took great exception as if he was setting his starting lineup.  You read that wrong and you inserted your enes bias into a post where he wasn't even mentioned.

This is the post by Fac that got your Enes antlers up:

Quote
I, for one, am rather amped to see Kornet, Vonleh, Knox, Hardaway, and Ntilikina take the floor.


DOES THAT SAY STARTING AT CENTER Koronet Pizza?  No.

Nice try. 

Looks suspiciously like a starting five to anyone not buying into your Guiliani-ready argument. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on August 22, 2018, 12:46:35 AM
I am hoping for a Frank /Burke PG backcourt that last one year.

then of course i hope Irving leaves Boston to join NY.

EK's money will be needed to sign Irving.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 22, 2018, 01:25:47 AM
Quote from: Nagel on August 22, 2018, 12:46:35 AM
I am hoping for a Frank /Burke PG backcourt that last one year.

then of course i hope Irving leaves Boston to join NY.

EK's money will be needed to sign Irving.

Fair enough. 

Only one problem with that.

Everyone seems to be assuming that Kyrie is a lock to come here. 

They are building something in Boston. 

Why would Kyrie want to bolt when he could be competing for the EC Finals for the next five years? 

Knicks are going to be better.  Celtics are already there. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 22, 2018, 01:30:45 AM
Zaza started for the Dubs for how long? There are all kinds of reasons to start guys and all kinds of ways to deploy starters in rotations.

I think it is highly unlikely the combo of Kornet, Vonleh, Knox, Hardaway, and Ntilikina will be the starting group on opening night. There is something about a track record of production that takes a monstrous camp and preseason performance to overcome. Kanter averaged a solid double-double in short minutes and epitomized commitment last season. He will most likely start.

Burke was better at running the prior Knick system than Frank was at the close of last year. If that remains the case after camp and Burke shows effective D, he should start. Mudiay looked worse than both of them, but it’s a new system so who knows?

I expect Knox to beat out Mario for starting SF.

Tim I’ve talked about.

I think Vonleh is better than Lance, but I wouldn’t be shocked to see Lance start anyway.

Starters could be Kanter, Thomas, Knox, Hardaway, and Burke.

This lineup will be easy to attack at the C and PG for a lot of teams. Rebounding is there. Thomas provides some leadership on D and hits 3’s at a good clip. It still seems like a recipe for getting in the hole early.

Kornet, Vonleh, Knox, Hardaway, Ntilikina gives you good length at every position with four guys who at least somewhat cover three positions along with actual shot blocking production at center. On the other side, you can play 5 out and run double screens, back picks, and other actions until a bad matchup can be taken right into the post or driven by while a big is locked outside on Kornet. This could be good for everyone’s shooting percentage. You also have Frank, Tim, and Kevin to break with NV filling the lane. Vonleh also hoovers boards. 7’, 6’9”, 6’9”, 6’5”, 6’5” is pretty ideal size for an NBA lineup, but this group is inexperienced, so far inconsistent and inefficient. Can Fiz get this group to play like it seems they should be able to on paper? Also, KP should be able to replace Kornet in that lineup when he’s ready and find a group ready to cater to his strengths and protect his weaknesses from the jump. KP, Vonleh, Knox, Hardaway, Ntilikina makes even more sense. For now, Kornet is a stand in.

Robinson, Vonleh, Thomas, Dotson, and Ntilikina might be our best defensive lineup. You could say Lee over Dotson, but Lee was dogging it by the time the year wound down & isn’t getting any quicker which is key to exceptional D. If we are very lucky, Knox will be every bit the defender that Thomas is, in which case his offense would be welcomed in this lineup. Robinson, Vonleh, Knox, Dotson, Ntilikina. We’d need to see efficiency from our sophomore guards for this to be worth pursuing.

To open, we have 3 bigs (Kanter, Kornet, Robinson) with very different games. We need to make the best of them till KP gets back. We also have 3 forwards (Vonleh, Thomas, Knox) who are similarly dissimilar. The coach needs to find the right combination in each situation. Among the rest we need to find 4 or 5 outside players who help us all the time when they are on the court.

Because of the KP recovery (no matter who you prefer as the other big), our starting situation will be less than ideal this season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 22, 2018, 07:45:10 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 22, 2018, 01:30:45 AM
To open, we have 3 bigs (Kanter, Kornet, Robinson) with very different games.

Yeah. Proven, nascent, and raw.

I'd be surprised if Kornet Chop Suey gets more than 10 mins per game.  I think we'll small it up a good deal when Kanter is out.

I'm not really a fan of Kanter, but he's a workhorse with a good attitude.  Let him focus on what he's good at, and see if he can slightly improve his D.

And then see what the market rate for him is next year.
There's a distinct C glut and prices are dropping. 

The most valuable C's these days are the guys who can protect the rim and dominate in PnR.  Gobert, Capela, DeAndretheGiant (and to a lesser extent OKC's Grizzly Adams).   
Then there are the athletic scorers; Towns, Embiid, Drummond.
Followed by guys like Ma Gasol, Cousin Boogie, Kev Love who can score inside and shoot 3's as the next valuable type.
Jokic stands out for his passing ability (formerly a Ma Gasol speciality).
That's 11.

Next tier is a grab-bag of guys like Dwight (in decline), Miles Turner (should be ascending), Nurkic.  Whiteside, who seems to have mental issues.  Up to 15.

Guys who can score inside and board, but don't offer rim protection, PnR menace, passing or good D are kind of anomalies: Kanter, Valanciunas, Vucevic, Monroe.
They can be useful role players but not the type you want to pay too much for.  They can be exploited especially in the playoffs.

Young C's who might be heard from:
Turner, Poetl, Len, Dieng, Maker
Ayton is expected to make a rook year impact.
No idea on La Bomba.
Title: Re: 1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...Expiring Contracts
Post by: Kam on August 22, 2018, 10:35:54 AM
Quote from: chipstern on August 21, 2018, 11:29:23 PM
Quote from: Kam on August 21, 2018, 09:39:33 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 20, 2018, 10:42:37 PM
Of course Enes wanted a long term contract. 

Knicks were not inclined to given ANYBODY a long term contract. 

Enes tested the market, and found what the THREE D's--DeAndre and DeMarcus and Dwight--discovered. 

With the exception of Kristaps, Kevin, Frank and Mitchell, everyone is on the clock. 

I think it is premature define Enes as in or out. 

The trading deadline will mean pins and needles for EVERYONE, not just Enes.  A lot of one and done contracts.  And there will be a lot of give and take between the Knicks and their free agents, as players are taking a chance on the Knicks, and Knicks are taking a flyer on players.  You have to think there is some understanding between players and the Knicks going forward.  Not that anyone is making guarantees to each other.  Just open lines of communication. 

In any event, Enes has considerable passion about remaining a Knick. 

Prove it, kid.  Prove it Enes.  Make your case.

Ditto Baker, Mudiay, Burke, Trier, Hicks, Hezonja, Vonleh...

That's SEVEN players besides Enes with expiring contracts (or, as with Mudiay, the Knicks can choose to pick up his option...or not).  Significantly, yes, Enes' contract is for what, $19 million?  Thus all of the conjecture and scenarios. 

We shall see.

You are obsessed with enes.  The original post said he was excited to see the youngsters Frank, Knox etc... to which you took great exception as if he was setting his starting lineup.  You read that wrong and you inserted your enes bias into a post where he wasn't even mentioned.

This is the post by Fac that got your Enes antlers up:

Quote
I, for one, am rather amped to see Kornet, Vonleh, Knox, Hardaway, and Ntilikina take the floor.


DOES THAT SAY STARTING AT CENTER Koronet Pizza?  No.

Nice try. 

Looks suspiciously like a starting five to anyone not buying into your Guiliani-ready argument.

You're wrong.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 22, 2018, 11:30:38 AM
It's a big world, and there's ample room for all of us to be wrong. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on August 22, 2018, 12:47:58 PM
Lin and Mase are both great calls for underdogs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 22, 2018, 07:25:58 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 22, 2018, 11:30:38 AM
It's a big world, and there's ample room for all of us to be wrong.

That's right.
Title: Not rolling
Post by: carlos123 on August 22, 2018, 10:17:15 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 20, 2018, 10:27:20 PM
Johnny One Note

Roll over THIS.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/k_oKDc6U_8WCVFhZT7A9ePsya6SeaVSXCAETURgvU7khbahPini7Wkgn0_6qOLejkHX09khNBD5ixEcM0yVTLNXRTLgGtP8FTS-ijLV-1suB4V8FwLSxwqW9khm_9ogxGG0vOeBeLe41v6zCc6bpA1WXX9n97He6PS-gv5GEjXU5Sz5WAvlFYIVH03W4OYokWJz6vu1O8gxntakOqKdoetLRZ5dNOynlM0ZjLTbHbH7pp8nYgjk_GqbWbbgDUQiyXsOmYgtw6wxQlvfJ9sGF5aKzHuCNH9Qw7YTGRYNstZXR6hknaMnlkmgBxRoMOOsSnWYU7i_fkdjwMryZ7YU1qw0_XWB885vHlPdKYQJn1XCHPu1Idgv8qAFeliufdYEJldr1TYAHuuiWVuBEcEJfbVJvJneq3UHHRFFiD4H6vVq1XoT48k3KLNZ5tX0qD00MQX0wgAMYtn1upYfJA4Wr4otQV2yMhWLGuuOl9fxmYJ6yaIoICR088HdrHAXIvB0RPJErF3Rjx-TnF3oBb2lUTc67lVAFngA9KBGUwDMD8BzeKlmXvx2CylvQRNz9hmgd5pDkCHEvMg4osAIy8xoKCh8q4-8aDpQHC9uFwBM=w871-h537-no)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 23, 2018, 07:36:04 AM
Quote from: chipstern on August 22, 2018, 01:25:47 AM
Quote from: Nagel on August 22, 2018, 12:46:35 AM
I am hoping for a Frank /Burke PG backcourt that last one year.

then of course i hope Irving leaves Boston to join NY.

EK's money will be needed to sign Irving.

Fair enough. 

Only one problem with that.

Everyone seems to be assuming that Kyrie is a lock to come here. 

They are building something in Boston. 

Why would Kyrie want to bolt when he could be competing for the EC Finals for the next five years? 

Knicks are going to be better.  Celtics are already there.

a)  its a black man and Boston - you never know with that

b)  If they dont win - if there is any chemistry rift ..... curtain #3 becomes appealing

c)  If they do win......well,yeah, Kyrie likely takes the victory lap and tries to be the new LeBron in the East (multiple finals, titles)

Brad Stevens - YOU are on the clock, sir.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on August 23, 2018, 12:47:52 PM
all the above very valid plus

d) this guy is a verified "flat-earther" so logic may play absolutely no part in the decision
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 23, 2018, 02:54:57 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on August 23, 2018, 12:47:52 PM
all the above very valid plus

d) this guy is a verified "flat-earther" so logic may play absolutely no part in the decision

He isn't considered a true flat-earther by the orthodoxy.  More of a johnny come lately attention seeker.
Title: Tick Tock...Tick Tock
Post by: chipstern on August 23, 2018, 03:53:20 PM
Training Camp Opens September 24th, And Cannot Come A Moment Too Soon. 

Meanwhile, Ludicrous Conjecture Runs Rampant. 

Kyrie Irving & Jimmy Butler To The Knicks?

Some AssHat In The Post Just Took A Photo Of LeBron With Durant And Kawhi, Among Others, And Turned That Into The Lakers New Big Three For 2019-2020.

I Mean, COOL YOUR FUCKING JETS. 

Why Would Durant EVER Leave Golden State?  Seriously. 

Oh, Well. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 23, 2018, 04:51:21 PM
New challenge.
Chance to play with LeBronco.

Durant fits in well with GSW, but he would with LAL as well.
GS is going to have to re-sign Klay next year, and then Dray the year after (while Iggy comes off then).
So it'd also make some sense with GS cap management.

Sure it's not likely, but how many of the past dozen or so all-stars changing teams have been. 
Kawhi bailing on SAS. 
Kyrie ditching LeBJ. 
Hayward not sticking around to be The Man on Utah. 
Griffin traded to DET, after signing a huge contract with LAC.
Butler to MIN.
Chris Paul to HOU.
Etc.

Lotta left-field stuff.
Kawhi heading to LAL wouldn't surprise anyone.
And then perhaps KD gets intrigued.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 23, 2018, 05:10:57 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 23, 2018, 04:51:21 PM
New challenge.
Chance to play with LeBronco.

Durant fits in well with GSW, but he would with LAL as well.
GS is going to have to re-sign Klay next year, and then Dray the year after (while Iggy comes off then).
So it'd also make some sense with GS cap management.

Sure it's not likely, but how many of the past dozen or so all-stars changing teams have been. 
Kawhi bailing on SAS. 
Kyrie ditching LeBJ. 
Hayward not sticking around to be The Man on Utah. 
Griffin traded to DET, after signing a huge contract with LAC.
Butler to MIN.
Chris Paul to HOU.
Etc.

Lotta left-field stuff.
Kawhi heading to LAL wouldn't surprise anyone.
And then perhaps KD gets intrigued.

Kawhi?

Pehaps.

Durant?

Please.  They have established a winning, dominating culture in Golden State, where Kevin got to really be The Man without having to be THE ONLY MAN.  Chemistry counts for something, and he will get much pesos con El Warriors. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 23, 2018, 06:40:55 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 23, 2018, 04:51:21 PM
New challenge.
Chance to play with LeBronco.

Durant fits in well with GSW, but he would with LAL as well.
GS is going to have to re-sign Klay next year, and then Dray the year after (while Iggy comes off then).
So it'd also make some sense with GS cap management.

Sure it's not likely, but how many of the past dozen or so all-stars changing teams have been. 
Kawhi bailing on SAS. 
Kyrie ditching LeBJ. 
Hayward not sticking around to be The Man on Utah. 
Griffin traded to DET, after signing a huge contract with LAC.
Butler to MIN.
Chris Paul to HOU.
Etc.

Lotta left-field stuff.
Kawhi heading to LAL wouldn't surprise anyone.
And then perhaps KD gets intrigued.

Don't forget that Draymond, Stephon, and Klay all tell KD they have 3 rings to his measley 2.
Title: Don't underestimate
Post by: Kam on August 23, 2018, 06:41:29 PM
The pettiness and insecurity of NBA players.

ESPECIALLY Kevin "burner accounts" Durant.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on August 23, 2018, 09:45:13 PM
I agree with Bo.  I could see Durant leaving Golden State.  Especially if they lose.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 24, 2018, 02:58:18 AM
I think they hold tight as long as they are still winning chips. If GS takes four or five in a row, it’s not likely we see Durant leave in the middle of that.

To add a Knicks musing, the lineup of Kanter, Vonleh, Knox, Hezonja, and Frank has a lot of mismatch potential. I revisited some Mario video. We may have to play the kid. Vonleh, Knox, Hezonja, Hardaway, and Ntilikina would be a small ball version of that lineup. It could also be fun with Mitchell replacing Vonleh in the small version and Kanter in the bigger lineup I started with.

I’m hoping Fizz finds (and sticks with) groupings that groove.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 24, 2018, 01:03:31 PM
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.................

CLOSED TIL MID OCTOBER.  PLEASE VISIT AT THAT TIME.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on August 24, 2018, 07:01:54 PM
Brad's on the clock?

Doesn't strike me as a on the clock type guy.

But maybe that's why he puts you in long hours, he wants the time and half.
Title: Chico is bored with all of you
Post by: carlos123 on August 24, 2018, 07:28:34 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 24, 2018, 01:03:31 PM
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.................

CLOSED TIL MID OCTOBER.  PLEASE VISIT AT THAT TIME.

He's bored with the forum, and it ain't my fault cause he says he has me on ignore.

All of you need to find something more entertaining for him. You know what he likes...

...Jimmer Fredette, Chris Christie, (Em)manuel Mudiay, Jeff Sessions, Lonzo Ball, Ivanka T., Lavar Ball, ...

There are plenty of people he wants to talk about, maybe even his sidekick Mistral. I mean, if you show him the picture below he may engage. But do something people! We can't be without Chico "TIL MID OCTOBER"

(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/arthur/images/4/4a/Kid_Carter.png/revision/latest?cb=20120814234635)
Kid Carter the crooning cowboy and his Sidekick Mistral
Title: WTF
Post by: carlos123 on August 24, 2018, 07:36:07 PM
The post by Tarokpl looks funny. I wouldn't touch any of the many links in there just to play it safe. Reported it to Josh in case he thinks it should be deleted.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 24, 2018, 09:59:16 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 24, 2018, 01:03:31 PM
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.................

CLOSED TIL MID OCTOBER.  PLEASE VISIT AT THAT TIME.

Oh ok you're skipping training camp and preseason?
Title: Re: WTF
Post by: bodiddley on August 25, 2018, 12:37:29 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on August 24, 2018, 07:36:07 PM
The post by Tarokpl looks funny. I wouldn't touch any of the many links in there just to play it safe. Reported it to Josh in case he thinks it should be deleted.

So you think I should cancel my order of ketoconazole cream and cephalexin?  I thought these would help my shot arc and foot arch . . .

Btw, my possible/likely Jones fracture feels exactly like someone whacked the outer side of my foot with a hammer.  Oddly I barely notice it when playing, but slightly limp around for a day afterwards with some pain.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 25, 2018, 06:43:56 AM
We’ve made it to the big time boys!

Makes for choppier threads. I might employ the ignore function to make re-reading the conversation cleaner as this turbulence plays out. If you don’t click the links, it’s hopefully no more than a fart in the wind.

In my previous mullings on the roster I forgot to mention that Burke and Mudiay should get first crack at reserve guard minutes. I have two angles on this; they are the two of our lotto repo crew who we have bird rights to next year and Fizz wants guards who can do both jobs, to differing degrees this is true of Mudiay and Burke. It seems more true of them than it does of Dotson and Lee who I recon weaker point guards than Manny and Trey are shooting guards, even with Mudiay’s shooting percentages.

I think the Princeton Mafia out thunk themselves by not finding a way to get a team option for a year two with Mario (unless they tried and failed, which is actually perfectly ok and diffuses that particular issue). We should have tried the same with Vonleh who has a tiny contract, or even guaranteed him a second year to establish Bird Rights. Maybe even offered Mario 2 at his rate as well on the similar reasoning anticipating the market for two or three years and looking at our time frame. On the other hand, one can be resigned with some cap space and the other less impressive can be offered the bi-annual exception to return and with further progress get locked in down the road. I guess there is some hedge for success, but I would have preferred it to be a stronger hedge in that direction.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 25, 2018, 12:31:53 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 25, 2018, 06:43:56 AM

I think the Princeton Mafia out thunk themselves by not finding a way to get a team option for a year two with Mario (unless they tried and failed, which is actually perfectly ok and diffuses that particular issue). We should have tried the same with Vonleh who has a tiny contract, or even guaranteed him a second year to establish Bird Rights. Maybe even offered Mario 2 at his rate as well on the similar reasoning anticipating the market for two or three years and looking at our time frame. On the other hand, one can be resigned with some cap space and the other less impressive can be offered the bi-annual exception to return and with further progress get locked in down the road. I guess there is some hedge for success, but I would have preferred it to be a stronger hedge in that direction.

All these guys have agents.  They're not stupid.  They know this was a year teams didn't have money and next off-season will be different.  If we were a strong team like Boston or Golden State with many attractive suitors maybe we could flex our muscles and extract a second year option.  As it is we are one of the ugliest chicks in a sadie hawkins dance. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 25, 2018, 02:11:25 PM
Very good points, one and all. I also like that none of the new signings will struggle to compete physically with top players at their positions physically. Robinson ‘s weight and strength vs. centers is the biggest question mark in that group in terms of physical profile, but he may be more of a PF in early years at least. 

Talent gathering - check.

Talent retention & development - optimistic, but remains to be seen.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 25, 2018, 08:41:18 PM
Frank pulls out of WCC play. “Getting ready for upcoming NBA season” is the reason given.
Title: Spam
Post by: carlos123 on August 25, 2018, 09:36:02 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 25, 2018, 06:43:56 AM
We’ve made it to the big time boys!

Makes for choppier threads. I might employ the ignore function to make re-reading the conversation cleaner as this turbulence plays out. If you don’t click the links, it’s hopefully no more than a fart in the wind.


Well, it seems you're gonna have to use the ignore function a lot. Josh got rid of the first spammer, but we got 3 more, or maybe the same one with different names. All reported, just not sure it's worth Josh's time and effort to kick them out. Oh well ... Hope they eventually give up and leave us alone.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on August 26, 2018, 09:07:37 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 25, 2018, 08:41:18 PM
Frank pulls out of WCC play. “Getting ready for upcoming NBA season” is the reason given.

This is unwise.  Perfect setting for FN to up his game.  But I guess it may have been embarrassing to not get starter minutes.
Title: Chico is back?
Post by: carlos123 on August 26, 2018, 03:32:53 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on August 26, 2018, 09:07:37 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 25, 2018, 08:41:18 PM
Frank pulls out of WCC play. “Getting ready for upcoming NBA season” is the reason given.

This is unwise.  Perfect setting for FN to up his game.  But I guess it may have been embarrassing to not get starter minutes.

But is this the real Chico? In this version (triple i) he has only 6 posts. The other version (double i) has 377. Go figure

Now 7 posts even  before he posted again. This chiiico is magic!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 26, 2018, 03:43:07 PM
I’m reading the Frank pass on international play as him feeling great growth in the offseason program and wanting to keep continuity to maximize the benefit of development in the remaining time. Down the line this helps Frank, his Knicks team, and his national team.

He probably got a peep at Lonzo Ball’s latest flex shot and decided moving iron was better use of time than dominating a qualifying tournament.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 26, 2018, 08:32:30 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 26, 2018, 03:43:07 PM
I’m reading the Frank pass on international play as him feeling great growth in the offseason program and wanting to keep continuity to maximize the benefit of development in the remaining time. Down the line this helps Frank, his Knicks team, and his national team.

He probably got a peep at Lonzo Ball’s latest flex shot and decided moving iron was better use of time than dominating a qualifying tournament.

French Frank learned a lot in 2017-2018 and in summer league. 

Fizz made it clear how he wants Ntilikina to evolve his game, but that he does not want to eviscerate Frank's core instincts and personality. 

Frank is a man on a mission, only TWENTY years old, as of July 28. 

New York City regards its teams with very steep expectations, and having experienced the upside and downside of that, Frank unquestionably made the right decision.  Last year, he played for his French team in championship games, paid the price in lost time and injuries. 

New Coach, New Squad, New Teammates, New Expectations. 

The kid [one i] wants to hit the ground running come September 24, and to fulfill the expectations of Coach Fizdale and the fans of New York.  Going overseas at this point in time would be insane.  But of course, our forum contrarian has made his disdain for French Frank plain, so specious notions of dropping out because he might not get starter's minutes, abound.  As if starters' minutes will be any easier to come by with Burke, Baker and Mudiay vying for floortime. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 27, 2018, 09:59:24 AM
Quote from: chipstern on August 26, 2018, 08:32:30 PM

Frank learned a lot in 2017-2018 and in summer league. 

Yeah, including how to read a depth chart
Quote

Fizz made it clear how he wants Ntilikina to evolve his game, but that he does not want to eviscerate Frank's core instincts and personality. 

There's a personality?  What is it?
Quote

Last year, he played for his French team in championship games, paid the price in lost time and injuries.

Nah.... he just didnt produce.  Was overbilled, (frank)ly.

Quote


The kid wants to hit the ground running come September 24, and to fulfill the expectations of Coach Fizdale and the fans of New York. 

Yes, of course

Quote
Going overseas at this point in time would be insane. 


The competition wouldnt benefit Frank?  Its actually better for his development than summer league
Quote

But of course, our forum contrarian has made his disdain for French Frank plain

Well, he has not ben good
Quote
  As if starters' minutes will be any easier to come by with Burke, Baker and Mudiay vying for floortime.

I know getting the minutes will be tough for him.  This is what I have contended.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on August 27, 2018, 11:54:02 AM
Ntilikina still feels like more of a 2 than a 1 to me. And there's nothing wrong with that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 27, 2018, 01:40:27 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on August 27, 2018, 11:54:02 AM
Ntilikina still feels like more of a 2 than a 1 to me. And there's nothing wrong with that.

He has more/better true PG instincts than Mudiay or Burke IMO.

If i'm wrong about Frank i'll admit it, but one chaotic season ( Chief Backer in the org who just drafted you is gone, head coach doesn't have the time to develop you as he is on the block next ) where the team signed two veterans in front of you, (one new starter comes into the locker room after just three games), then traded for your putative replacement (who sucks btw) isn't enough time to formulate an opinion that he can't do that job he was drafted to do. No, not ready to predict his future as a non-PG.

Last season was a case study in how to turn a Quarter into three Nickles.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 27, 2018, 01:47:11 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 27, 2018, 09:59:24 AM
Quote from: chipstern on August 26, 2018, 08:32:30 PM
As if starters' minutes will be any easier to come by with Burke, Baker and Mudiay vying for floortime.

I know getting the minutes will be tough for him.  This is what I have contended.

If anything, its Burke who is more on an Iverson-ish SG.  Trade Lee and give Burke backup minutes behind former college teammate Hardaway Jr.

Let Frank and Mudiay platoon the PG.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 27, 2018, 01:51:17 PM
A heavy diet of pick up ball with NBA vets, strength & conditioning plus skills work is going to be more helpful to Frank in adjusting his playing style to be optimized for the NBA than international play in Euro style by FIBA rules. Getting time in w players on the team is also very positive and will take some of the hesitation that cost Frank last year out of his game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 27, 2018, 02:01:13 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 27, 2018, 01:51:17 PM
A heavy diet of pick up ball with NBA vets, strength & conditioning plus skills work is going to be more helpful to Frank in adjusting his playing style to be optimized for the NBA than international play in Euro style by FIBA rules. Getting time in w players on the team is also very positive and will take some of the hesitation that cost Frank last year out of his game.

That may be the case.

Not so much timorous as overly deferential at times. 

Also, when Frank was paired against the likes of Ball, Smith, Fox, he played well. 
Title: Manu Ginobli
Post by: chipstern on August 27, 2018, 05:51:32 PM
From the #57 pick in the second round to the Hall Of Fame. 

What a great, great competitor. 

No one more respected among his opponents, be it the Euro-Step or just the profile of a winner. 

Thanks for all the luster, sans the bluster. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 27, 2018, 06:19:23 PM
Quote from: Kam on August 27, 2018, 01:47:11 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 27, 2018, 09:59:24 AM
Quote from: chipstern on August 26, 2018, 08:32:30 PM
As if starters' minutes will be any easier to come by with Burke, Baker and Mudiay vying for floortime.

I know getting the minutes will be tough for him.  This is what I have contended.

If anything, its Burke who is more on an Iverson-ish SG.  Trade Lee and give Burke backup minutes behind former college teammate Hardaway Jr.

Let Frank and Mudiay platoon the PG.

Certainly one possible way to go - though when Burke was effective last year he was on the ball.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on August 28, 2018, 01:17:27 PM
Quote from: Kam on August 27, 2018, 01:40:27 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on August 27, 2018, 11:54:02 AM
Ntilikina still feels like more of a 2 than a 1 to me. And there's nothing wrong with that.

He has more/better true PG instincts than Mudiay or Burke IMO.

If i'm wrong about Frank i'll admit it, but one chaotic season ( Chief Backer in the org who just drafted you is gone, head coach doesn't have the time to develop you as he is on the block next ) where the team signed two veterans in front of you, (one new starter comes into the locker room after just three games), then traded for your putative replacement (who sucks btw) isn't enough time to formulate an opinion that he can't do that job he was drafted to do. No, not ready to predict his future as a non-PG.

Last season was a case study in how to turn a Quarter into three Nickles.

He was drafted to play in the Triangle, not to play point guard.

I don't put too much stock into having to play the position for which you were drafted. Boris Diaw came into the league as a 2 and languished until he became a damn 5. Draymond Green was viewed as a 3, not as history altering 5. Iverson and Penny were drafted as point guards, Shawn Marion as a small forward, even Michael Jordan came into the L with uncertainty over whether he'd be a 1, 2, or a 3 (granted, different era and a tough comparison).

Point being - aside from Diaw, those guys didn't fail at their initial positions. Better fits were discovered.

I think Ntilikina's best position is next to a guard who creates for self and others. Usually, that's a point guard, sometimes it's James Harden or (sniff sniff) Manu Ginobili. For us, it will hopefully be RJ Barrett. But, today, I see Ntilikina looking like his best fit when he's sharing the back-court with Trey Burke. They'll share duties of bringing the ball up or leading fast breaks, but Burke would handle the rock more.

Not discounting that Ntilikina can eventually grow into that. Just feels he can contribute more as a 2 right now. Nothing wrong with that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 28, 2018, 01:47:00 PM
Rajon Rondo is a PG who doesn't think me first and create for himself. 

His strength isn't Shooting, it's QB'ing the team.

He's got a ring.

That's the template.

A pocket passing QB.

Neither Rajon nor Frank would fit better at SG than PG.

Most of your best examples were small-ball bigs.

Frank aint that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on August 28, 2018, 03:34:14 PM
Who said think "me first"? Rondo creates for others.

Ntilikina has not shown that he's anything like Rondo. Wrong template. Rondo had incredible vision and patience, and he was bold when he needed to be. That ain't Frank.

I'd even add that Rondo is more selfish than Frank.

Frank is a George Hill type - a bit more athletic, hopefully, certainly more energetic, and if we're lucky a better spot up shooter. Maybe he develops the off-the-bounce game Hill never did (if he does, watch out). But his game, as far as we've seen, is nothing like Rondo. I think you completely missed my point (for example, I don't think it is relevant that the examples you liked best were small ball bigs, both because I had several guards on the list and because I simply was pointing out that views on fit often change in the early years of a prospect's career).

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 28, 2018, 07:39:07 PM
A good take on another aspect of our backcourt situation,

http://theknickswall.com/emmanuel-mudiay-longevity-question-knicks/ (http://theknickswall.com/emmanuel-mudiay-longevity-question-knicks/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 28, 2018, 10:23:53 PM
Fiz taking advance credit for Mudiay's strong season

Lame.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 29, 2018, 03:00:59 AM
Come on Kid, the article said Mudiay has a chance to rise as high as 4th guard, behind Hardaway, Burke, and Ntilikina, if he beats out Courtney Lee who may not even stay with the team. If he’s really changed his work ethic and honed his focus, he can achieve more. A Lance Stephenson backcourt bully off the bench role may be what he needs to aim for as a somewhat achievable career goal, rather than starting or star pg.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 29, 2018, 03:46:41 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 28, 2018, 10:23:53 PM
Fiz taking advance credit for Mudiay's strong season

Lame.

Speaking of lame, Fizdale did nothing of the sort. 

Just read the article, and of course, you completely misrepresent its conclusions and Fizdale's attempt to build up the kid's confidence and provide a nurturing support system. 

But then, handicapper that you are, seem to have already concluded with Biblical certitude that Ntilikina is a bust and that Mudiay is the putative starter. 

We shall see, won't we. 

I'm with Facil, here, and that for EM's immediate future something akin to an Avery Bradley/Rozier energizer role off the bench might be something to consider.  The highlights of his 24 point first quarter with Denver against the Celtics on their home court was a tantalizing hint at what EM might provide if he gets into a sustainable rhythm.  His inside/outside game was certainly clicking.  And while his offensive confidence was impressive--using his big body in the blocks, moving without the ball, and his jumper clicking off the dribble--what was absent from this particular highlight reel was any sense of command as a facilitator. 

Have to believe that Mudiay will get every opportunity to impress. 

Also, given how crowded the back court is, and projecting Burke, Hardaway, Ntilikina and Mudiay as rotation front runners, where does this leave Dotson, let alone Baker and Trier, not to mention the likely departure of Courtney Lee, who could be a terrific addition to a contender out West.  Hard to see a match or any draft picks or ending contracts coming our way. 

Scott Perry's ability to create a deal for Lee, and get some sort of assets in return, will be a signature move coming into the new season. 

Have to figure, given the glut of two way players in the back court, that Fizdale will relent on his desire to match up with size and length, and go with some three-guard alignments, to find added floor time for Hardaway and Dotson.  Trier looks to spend considerable time in Westchester unless he knocks everyone's socks off in training camp.  Knicks seem to still have some sort of expectation of Baker fulfilling a role, though at this time, it is difficult to discern.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on August 29, 2018, 11:16:20 AM
LOL, if Mudiay has the first strong season of his career, FIZ can have all the credit he wants...

{AND if this site keeps making me do some kind of CAPTCHA VERIFICATION AND TRIVIA QUIZ to allow me to post, before EACH post, I will be posting about once a year)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 29, 2018, 02:09:40 PM
I don’t have any issue like that posting, Les.

Let’s hope Fiz can have that effect on a few players.

I’m more concerned with Fiz getting everyone to run hard and to play their best defense.

For Mudiay, that’s actually about 2/3 of what he needs to do to have a career year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 29, 2018, 02:50:47 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 29, 2018, 02:09:40 PM
I don’t have any issue like that posting, Les.

Let’s hope Fiz can have that effect on a few players.

I’m more concerned with Fiz getting everyone to run hard and to play their best defense.

For Mudiay, that’s actually about 2/3 of what he needs to do to have a career year.

Crowded back court. 

Competition for floor time. 

LOTS OF COMPETITION. 

Good for everybody. 

Burke, Ntilikina, Mudiay. 

Underachievers all, battling for the bell cow role, the rudder, not the udder, seeking to raise their game to an NBA level of command and consistency, on both ends of the court. 

Competition?

Good.

Can't wait. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 29, 2018, 02:57:19 PM
The trick is going to be turning the competition into cohesion. It doesn’t have to happen right away, since we aren’t reaching any kind of glory this year. That’s going to be the sign for me that things are on the right track.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 29, 2018, 05:42:17 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 29, 2018, 03:00:59 AM
Come on Kid, the article said Mudiay has a chance to rise as high as 4th guard, behind Hardaway, Burke, and Ntilikina, if he beats out Courtney Lee who may not even stay with the team. If he’s really changed his work ethic and honed his focus, he can achieve more. A Lance Stephenson backcourt bully off the bench role may be what he needs to aim for as a somewhat achievable career goal, rather than starting or star pg.

Mudiay has done more in the league than all but Lee.

But no - I dont think Lee's status even affects Emmanuel.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 29, 2018, 10:00:07 PM
Let me guess. You see Mudiay, Hardaway, Knox, Kanter, and Hezonja or Thomas as the prime group, with other players like Burke, Lee, etc. filling in the margins. Does that sound about right, based on real competition and what you’ve seen of their career play so far?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 29, 2018, 10:15:53 PM
I like one spot open, 4 starters being EM, THJ, EK and KK (leaving room for Fiz possibly bringing Kev off the bench for Mario)

But if Mudiay loses it fair and square, I will be excited to watch whoever earned the spot
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 29, 2018, 10:37:08 PM
https://twitter.com/GerryCallahan/status/1034936455695613955 (https://twitter.com/GerryCallahan/status/1034936455695613955)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on August 30, 2018, 12:40:05 AM
https://nypost.com/2018/08/30/walt-frazier-delivers-blunt-take-on-durant-and-carmelo-legacies/ (https://nypost.com/2018/08/30/walt-frazier-delivers-blunt-take-on-durant-and-carmelo-legacies/)

Warriors won without him and won with him.

Clyde's point is old school but valid to me since I'm very old school.

actually maybe just old.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 30, 2018, 12:56:22 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 29, 2018, 10:15:53 PM
I like one spot open, 4 starters being EM, THJ, EK and KK (leaving room for Fiz possibly bringing Kev off the bench for Mario)

But if Mudiay loses it fair and square, I will be excited to watch whoever earned the spot

Why not Knox and Mario as forwards together with Kanter and the two guards?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 30, 2018, 01:21:04 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 29, 2018, 05:42:17 PM
Mudiay has done more in the league than all but Lee.

Another way of putting it is Franc had an okay, up-and-down rook campaign.

While Burke was a bigger bust than Muddy.  But now Burke has shown a defined skill set and role that Mud hasn't achieved.  Burke looks like a legit jitterbug scoring backup PG.  Though it will be interesting to see if he can sustain efficiency on his often difficult midrange shots.
The Iverson-lite mode isn't an easy thing to pull off.

My concern is Mud has too much to work on/improve to become a legit NBA player.  Cons: shooting, turnovers, focus, finishing, conditioning, defense, consistency.  Pros: has an NBA body, and shows flashes of skills now and then.  Can penetrate, but not pass or finish off of that.  Some passing vision. 

So what to work on?  What to build on?

Maybe if he develops a shot, the game would open up for him.
And perhaps better conditioning would give him the ups (and quicks) to finish inside.  For now he looks like old Melo trying to convert a layup.  Being able to score either in or out, better/credible D, and reduced turnovers and he'd be a guy you can develop ...

Probably an outside shot is key, since you can't really play SG without it, and that might be his future.

Obviously a key year for Mud.  So you'd expect him to be in contract year shape.  And the op is definitely there, if he's readywillingable to seize it.  Will be very interesting to see how Fiz uses Mud, and what the emphasis is on.  All the new faces and reclamations, and ending contracts doesn't make a PG's job easy (even if they were good at it).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 30, 2018, 03:16:57 AM
Burke can up his game by adding a reliable 3-point shot.
Though it seems he likes movement/rhythm on his shots, so might not be good at catch and shoot 3's.  And off-the-dribble 3's aren't easy if you aren't a range shooter.
I doubt Burke will ever be a good defender, but adding a 3-point shot would make him very tough to guard.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 30, 2018, 03:19:44 AM
Franc has a good deal to work on.
Being more decisive and aggressive.
He can cut down on turnovers by not telegraphing passes or tossing weak east-west passes.
Needs to work on his shot.
But has a good defensive foundation.
But have to hope he's more than Darrell Walker.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 30, 2018, 04:04:23 AM
Burke ended the season as clearly the most assertive directing traffic and setting things up also getting to the shot he wanted and finishing. Turning himself into a pull up reliably from anywhere guy, especially from deep and very deep would up his value. Fizz has to decide what works with him on D and do the balance.

Fizz is reportedly quite particular about how his players finish inside. If he can lead Mudiay to tame his hitch and harness his explosion, he could put up rookie level numbers on a decent percentages while actually helping the team out there. Being and staying in top shape is the key.

Frank has put in work. He’s going to need minutes and a decent leash to show how much he’s grown and what he can do for the team.

Our wings are even more promising with Knox, Mario, Hardaway, and Lee. I’m more worried about the D than scoring and playmaking from this group.

Lance and Vonleh can both make plays though neither should be leaned on. Lance is a good stretch four for Noah to learn from.

Kornet needs to be nimbler, stronger, and more intense.

Kanter can reprise last season or, if he wants to improve his FA position, he could elevate his D, especially his help D and work in space.

Kanter, Kornet, and Vonleh in camp can let us know what sort of positional D Mitchell can provide. He made his help potential evident in Summer League, along with rolling and cleaning up. Can he rebound against Vonleh and Kanter? When any of these guys are in tandems, who does what effectively?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on August 30, 2018, 11:10:16 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 30, 2018, 04:04:23 AM
Kanter can reprise last season or, if he wants to improve his FA position, he could elevate his D, especially his help D and work in space.

I don't know what role Fiz envisages for Kanter, nor if Kanter will ever be able to move quick enough or get low enough to be a neutral (let alone plus) defender. But I do know he looks absolutely shredded and that he will show up at camp ready to score better and more efficiently than anyone else on the team. Kanter is going to put up numbers this year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 30, 2018, 11:20:19 AM
Knix play MIA in London, and likely Kanter can't risk going.
Turkey revoked his passport and have warrant out for his arrest.
He has a US green card, but is essentially stateless until he can qualify for a US passport in 3 years or so.  Not sure what travel docs he would have and can't risk an Interpol warrant awaiting him, and court hassles and such.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 30, 2018, 11:48:23 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 30, 2018, 04:04:23 AM
Burke ended the season as clearly the most assertive directing traffic and setting things up also getting to the shot he wanted and finishing. Turning himself into a pull up reliably from anywhere guy,

So do you start Burke because he is the furthest along?  or do you slot him in as the backup PG which is where he projects when the Knix have a genuine team?  And try to develop Mud and/or Franc as the starting PG? 

I'd go the latter route.
I'd choose Franc since he's young, more malleable and we need defense among the starters (Hardaway/Kanter/probably rook Knox).

But another option is go with Mud since this is his last year to prove out.  And Franc is a better off guard option, so can fill both roles.
Give Mud every op to be a legit starting PG, allow him to work through mistakes.  Go with it for half the season.  And then when KZ is coming back, evaluate if Mud has developed enough to remain the starter, or if it's Franc's turn.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 30, 2018, 12:28:53 PM
Clyde:  "I grade (Durant) down......"

Sure - why wouldn't you?

But soon, with all the talent surrounding LBJ, Frazier will need to knock James down a notch as well - unless - unlike what has been reported - LBJ still domninates the rock and runs the show as he did in CLE
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 30, 2018, 01:35:26 PM
If Burke still seems furthest along in camp of the pgs, then the question is do Frank or EM seem like they are making progress and that one will ultimately get there. If so start the kid and run Burke as super sub. If the coaches don’t have confidence that Frank and EM have or will shortly turn the corner, then I think you start Burke so everyone else we are trying to develop can have the benefit of a competent pg. I Frankly expect Frankie to show enough growth to win the starting spot. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 30, 2018, 01:49:56 PM
David West retires.
Nice career.
Tough guy.
Wrenched out Melo's shoulder one time.
Good mid-range J.

I remember the late part of that (LBJ/Melo/Wade/Bosh) draft.
After a mid-round run of Guards, there were 3 PF's said to be intriguing:  David West, Brian Cook and Mario Austin.
Supposedly NO was choosing between them.

West went #18, Cook 23, Austin dropped to 37.
West made a couple all-star teams, became a leader, and very solid on both ends.  Cook had a decent career but no standout skill.  Kind of West-lite, with an acceptable midrange J and okay boarding.  Austin had a weird go of it.  Somehow wound up with a collapsed lung and next thing was playing in Russia.  Never stepped on an NBA court.

Not being a draft guy or college follower I had no idea which of the 3 was best.  Not sure why that sticks in my head from 15 years back, except that I wanted to keep an eye on how it panned out.  Fairly big difference in outcomes.  The draft got it right. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 30, 2018, 02:09:44 PM
Btw, that 2003 draft had some weirdness to it.
Darko taken #3.  Guy had a great physique and not much character.
Collected a paycheck for 10 years (just 463 games) totaling $52M.
Believe it or not, but Darko just turned 33 this Summer.

Jarvis Hayes #10 pick was said to be similar to Wade (#5 pick)
Troy Bell #16 pick had a 34 minute career.
Knick fans were excited somehow we got both Sweetney (#9 pick) and Magic Lampe (#31).  And somehow they both stunk.

Minny had a pick reinstated after being barred from the draft the previous 3 years due to the illegal Joe Smith signing.  So they drafted a skinny high school kid Ndubi Ebi (86 minute career) #26.  The next 3 players drafted all had 10+ year careers.

Speaking of, the 2nd round had 9 players who played 10 or more years.
Possibly a record.  Korver (and Zaza?) still going.
And 11 who never played in the NBA.
Plus 3 more who had a 2 game or less Nba career (including Knick 2nd rounder Slavko Vranes.  7'5" and a 3 minute career).

Very interesting draft.  One of my faves.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 30, 2018, 03:43:45 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 30, 2018, 11:48:23 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 30, 2018, 04:04:23 AM
Burke ended the season as clearly the most assertive directing traffic and setting things up also getting to the shot he wanted and finishing. Turning himself into a pull up reliably from anywhere guy,

So do you start Burke because he is the furthest along?  or do you slot him in as the backup PG which is where he projects when the Knix have a genuine team?  And try to develop Mud and/or Franc as the starting PG? 

I'd go the latter route.
I'd choose Franc since he's young, more malleable and we need defense among the starters (Hardaway/Kanter/probably rook Knox).

But another option is go with Mud since this is his last year to prove out.  And Franc is a better off guard option, so can fill both roles.
Give Mud every op to be a legit starting PG, allow him to work through mistakes.  Go with it for half the season.  And then when KZ is coming back, evaluate if Mud has developed enough to remain the starter, or if it's Franc's turn.

I think the only negative is that you have to spend cap cash next year to keep EM.

If you "develop" Frank, that's the cheap route.

(I put develop in parentheses because I dont believe in the word being used interchangeably with PLAY. Development could certainly be achieved in a bench - or even G League - role))
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 30, 2018, 04:01:15 PM
Slavko Vranes

5th tallest to play in the NBA

STILL playing professionally.

3 time Adriatic Legue champ
3-time Serbian League champ
Montenegran League champion
Euro Cup winner in 2011
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 30, 2018, 04:30:20 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 30, 2018, 02:09:44 PM
Btw, that 2003 draft had some weirdness to it.
Darko taken #3.  Guy had a great physique and not much character.
Collected a paycheck for 10 years (just 463 games) totaling $52M.
Believe it or not, but Darko just turned 33 this Summer.

Jarvis Hayes #10 pick was said to be similar to Wade (#5 pick)
Troy Bell #16 pick had a 34 minute career.
Knick fans were excited somehow we got both Sweetney (#9 pick) and Magic Lampe (#31).  And somehow they both stunk.

Minny had a pick reinstated after being barred from the draft the previous 3 years due to the illegal Joe Smith signing.  So they drafted a skinny high school kid Ndubi Ebi (86 minute career) #26.  The next 3 players drafted all had 10+ year careers.

Speaking of, the 2nd round had 9 players who played 10 or more years.
Possibly a record.  Korver (and Zaza?) still going.
And 11 who never played in the NBA.
Plus 3 more who had a 2 game or less Nba career (including Knick 2nd rounder Slavko Vranes.  7'5" and a 3 minute career).

Very interesting draft.  One of my faves.

Lampe had a solid Euro Career. 

I remember that Dick Vitale was aghast that the Knicks passed on Nick Collison to take Michael Sweetney. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on August 30, 2018, 06:11:03 PM
Is anyone ready to label Frankie a bust and think the knix should move-on, limited offensive skills and not good at defending the three? Right now I keep Burke and EM.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 30, 2018, 08:01:22 PM
There's room for all 3, Luee.

No.  Of course no such labels just yet.

I think 4 years is fair for the league to judge - though a player's first team might move on sooner.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 30, 2018, 10:18:27 PM
"I understand how deep our team is," Tatum said. "I just care about winning and doing what I can while I’m on the floor." He said he's "definitely gotten a lot stronger" this offseason, but the Celtics might still be leery of starting their prized 20-year-old at PF out of the gates. With Gordon Hayward healthy and Marcus Morris as the incumbent starter at PF, it's conceivable that Tatum will fill a sixth-man role -- at least initially. Regardless, Boston will find ways to get him 30+ minutes per game.


I dont see it
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 30, 2018, 11:26:04 PM
No, but 25 mpg is doable.

Link to the 2003 draft.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2003.html

Collison ended up with shoulder problems which pushed him to the bench and more into a limited role, iirc.

I saw Lampe last year in China in a close game, and he was fairly lazy on both ends.  He was The Man and bombed in some clutch 3's, but also failed to box out so that his man got a late rebound and layup, failed to run the floor and his man got an early offense layup.  I have no idea the context of his time in China, and assume he played harder in Euroland (pretty sure he was in Russia for some years).  What I saw, he showed a good deal of skills, but also bad habits.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 30, 2018, 11:38:49 PM
The Magic Lampe. I had some hopes. Glad he’s doing ok.

Tatum could easily get 30 minutes platooning with Hayward and Brown. I don’t think any of those three have a real leg up for minutes compared to the other two. I expect Hayward to be babied along somewhat, at least to the All Star break.

We’re putting Knox, Mario, Hardaway, and Thomas up against those guys. It could get rough.

Does Kanter get to bang with Baynes or does Al send him to the bench with nimble outside play?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 31, 2018, 12:37:35 AM
Quote
The Houston Rockets traded Ryan Anderson and De'Anthony Melton to the Phoenix Suns for Marquese Chriss and Brandon Knight, league sources tell ESPN.

HOU needed a backup PG since CP3 misses some games.
Knight is expensive but not as much as RyAnderson.
Chriss can rebound and run the floor, but doesn't really have a game yet.  Raw.
Looks like HOU saves a few $M as well.

Not earth-shaking but looks like a very solid Ryno dump for HOU.
Adds a backup PG, gets to test drive a young pogo stick PF, save some money.

Not sure I see much point for PHX.
Do they even have a PG now?
(not much point, get it?)
Maybe it's to make up for the year when they had 3.
Ayton and Josh Jackson aren't going to do much without a PG.

I would've traded them Muddy for Chriss (I think).
I'd go with Marquese's bounciness over Vonleh's no offense.
On 2nd thought probably better to have Mud and Vonleh than Chriss.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 31, 2018, 01:54:27 AM
I’m with you there on the second thought.

Houston catches a break. Knight and Chriss will be good depth pieces for them.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on August 31, 2018, 05:07:54 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 30, 2018, 11:20:19 AM
Knix play MIA in London, and likely Kanter can't risk going.
Turkey revoked his passport and have warrant out for his arrest.
He has a US green card, but is essentially stateless until he can qualify for a US passport in 3 years or so.  Not sure what travel docs he would have and can't risk an Interpol warrant awaiting him, and court hassles and such.

Can he go to Toronto?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 31, 2018, 05:17:58 AM
I think it would depend on which dictators trump was trying to kiss up to that week.

September is right around the corner. JoNo might find himself free of contractual obligations any day now...

We’re not trading Lee to OKC for Singler and Arbines. Singler just got stretched. He’s off their books and out in the wilderness.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 31, 2018, 05:33:52 AM
I saw last week that OKC saves something like $23M this year (mostly lux tax) by waiving Singler.  And I thought, " Okay, he's gone."
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 31, 2018, 09:25:11 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 31, 2018, 12:37:35 AM
Quote
The Houston Rockets traded Ryan Anderson and De'Anthony Melton to the Phoenix Suns for Marquese Chriss and Brandon Knight, league sources tell ESPN.

HOU needed a backup PG since CP3 misses some games.
Knight is expensive but not as much as RyAnderson.
Chriss can rebound and run the floor, but doesn't really have a game yet.  Raw.
Looks like HOU saves a few $M as well.

Not earth-shaking but looks like a very solid Ryno dump for HOU.
Adds a backup PG, gets to test drive a young pogo stick PF, save some money.

Not sure I see much point for PHX.
Do they even have a PG now?
(not much point, get it?)
Maybe it's to make up for the year when they had 3.
Ayton and Josh Jackson aren't going to do much without a PG.

I would've traded them Muddy for Chriss (I think).
I'd go with Marquese's bounciness over Vonleh's no offense.
On 2nd thought probably better to have Mud and Vonleh than Chriss.

Meet Elie Okobo

http://www.fiba.basketball/europecup/16-17/news/pau-lacq-orthez-youngster-okobo-turning-heads-in-the-fiba-europe-cup (http://www.fiba.basketball/europecup/16-17/news/pau-lacq-orthez-youngster-okobo-turning-heads-in-the-fiba-europe-cup)

I think we got the wrong frog.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 31, 2018, 09:31:13 AM
Gonna get me a Suns hat, I think.

Thinking they may make me some bucks this year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on August 31, 2018, 09:53:35 AM
It would be an accomplishment for the Suns to finish higher than 14th in the conference.
Title: Cracker Barrell
Post by: chipstern on August 31, 2018, 11:30:18 AM
Frog, huh. 

Just when it seems that you have bottomed out you reach a new low. 

Go fuck yourself...

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 31, 2018, 12:22:23 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 31, 2018, 09:25:11 AM
Meet Elie Okobo
I think we got the wrong frog.

Even the article you linked to says he's a combo guard learning the PG position (because he's 6'2").

He was the #31 pick.
Which tells you something.

NBADraftNet:
Quote
Overall: Elie Okobo is  :-\. His ability to score in every way possible (Pull-up, Catch and Shot, Spot up, Drive) along with his court vision, above average athleticism and defensive potential make him really intriguing. If he manages to play with the same motor all the time and become a point guard he could be a really good player in the future.

Quote
Weaknesses: He is not overly explosive ... He doesn't always play with the same aggressiveness ... Does not concentrate as he should at all times ... Has a lot of ups and downs, even within a game ... He is still learning the point guard position because he began his career as an off guard ... Gets sped up and plays too fast at times ... Has problems reading the game ...Turnover prone, his assist/turnover ratio could improve ... He must learn to take over a game when he has to ... He can be a streaky shooter ... He occasionally shows a little hesitation before shooting off the dribble which causes him to lose a split second and allows his opponent to contest his shot ... He can fall in love with his shot and not attack the basket as much as he should ... He settles for a 3-point more times than he should after a big is switched on him ... Shot selection is a question mark because he has the tendency to take contested shots ... Can be impatient when he hasn't taken a shot for a while ... He doen't always drive hard to the basket and go all the way into the paint ... When he attacks the basket he looks too willing to pass rather than finish the play, which leads to turnovers ... Has problems finishing at the rim through contact and in traffic ... Has the habit of telegraphing passes and trying to pass from tough angles ... He should learn to look for the simple play rather than the flashy one ... He must mix it up more on offense and find the balance between his favorite move (step back) and driving to the basket, maybe adding some floaters to his game ... He doesn't go to the free throw line as much as you would expect for a player with his athleticism and talent ... His Pick and Roll game still needs improving, since he has the tendency to look for a shooter rather than the rolling big ... He doesn't always has a low stance on defense, depending too much on his physical tools ... He is having some problems defending the Pick and Roll, looking lost at times ... He stands away from his opponent when he is defending the weak side, something that leads to either a free shot or a rushed and wrong close out by him, which adds pressure to his team ... He might be more than willing to help coming from the weakside, but there are moments when he just freezes and watches a play happen ...

Sounds a fair amount like Franc, except this guy is a scorer and Franc a defender.  But a good deal of the same flaws. (as bolded).
Franc has better size, so more able to play SG or be a genuine combo G.  Okobo at 6'2" needs to become a PG or his career won't go anywhere.

NBADraftnet comparison is Roddy Beaubois who I was kind of high on early.  Super quick and kind of fearless, but not a great shot.  then injuries added up and he never cut down on turnovers, and size limited him when he wasn't able to become a legit NBA PG.

Here's the link if you want to read all the positives on Okobo:
http://www.nbadraft.net/players/elie-okobo

But you don't want to have a 2nd round rook run your team.
Recipe for disaster.
Title: Re: Cracker Barrell
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 31, 2018, 12:47:40 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 31, 2018, 11:30:18 AM
Frog, huh. 

Just when it seems that you have bottomed out you reach a new low. 

Go fuck yourself...

Possibly the most likely cause of the term relates to heraldry and here there are two lines of thought. One relates to King Clovis who had three frogs or toads on his heraldic shield and flag, at least he did until he converted to Christianity when he adopted the Fleur-de-lis.

Now as I mentioned earlier, King Clovis converted to Christianity and as part of this the frogs/toads were given the elbow and the Fleurs de Lis was adopted. The French flag then had a blue background with gold fleur-de-lys on it. The ignorant English, not knowing that the fleur-de-lys was supposed to be a flower, though that it represented a gold frog. Hence “frog” became a derogatory term for the French.

meh - you'll live
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 31, 2018, 12:51:00 PM
Quote
With the loss of Knight, the Suns plan to continue pursuing a trade for a starting-level point guard before the regular season.

Sounds about right . . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 31, 2018, 12:51:46 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 31, 2018, 12:22:23 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 31, 2018, 09:25:11 AM
Meet Elie Okobo
I think we got the wrong frog.

Even the article you linked to says he's a combo guard learning the PG position (because he's 6'2").

He was the #31 pick.
Which tells you something.

NBADraftNet:
Quote
Overall: Elie Okobo is  :-\. His ability to score in every way possible (Pull-up, Catch and Shot, Spot up, Drive) along with his court vision, above average athleticism and defensive potential make him really intriguing. If he manages to play with the same motor all the time and become a point guard he could be a really good player in the future.

Quote
Weaknesses: He is not overly explosive ... He doesn't always play with the same aggressiveness ... Does not concentrate as he should at all times ... Has a lot of ups and downs, even within a game ... He is still learning the point guard position because he began his career as an off guard ... Gets sped up and plays too fast at times ... Has problems reading the game ...Turnover prone, his assist/turnover ratio could improve ... He must learn to take over a game when he has to ... He can be a streaky shooter ... He occasionally shows a little hesitation before shooting off the dribble which causes him to lose a split second and allows his opponent to contest his shot ... He can fall in love with his shot and not attack the basket as much as he should ... He settles for a 3-point more times than he should after a big is switched on him ... Shot selection is a question mark because he has the tendency to take contested shots ... Can be impatient when he hasn't taken a shot for a while ... He doen't always drive hard to the basket and go all the way into the paint ... When he attacks the basket he looks too willing to pass rather than finish the play, which leads to turnovers ... Has problems finishing at the rim through contact and in traffic ... Has the habit of telegraphing passes and trying to pass from tough angles ... He should learn to look for the simple play rather than the flashy one ... He must mix it up more on offense and find the balance between his favorite move (step back) and driving to the basket, maybe adding some floaters to his game ... He doesn't go to the free throw line as much as you would expect for a player with his athleticism and talent ... His Pick and Roll game still needs improving, since he has the tendency to look for a shooter rather than the rolling big ... He doesn't always has a low stance on defense, depending too much on his physical tools ... He is having some problems defending the Pick and Roll, looking lost at times ... He stands away from his opponent when he is defending the weak side, something that leads to either a free shot or a rushed and wrong close out by him, which adds pressure to his team ... He might be more than willing to help coming from the weakside, but there are moments when he just freezes and watches a play happen ...

Sounds a fair amount like Franc, except this guy is a scorer and Franc a defender.  But a good deal of the same flaws. (as bolded).
Franc has better size, so more able to play SG or be a genuine combo G.  Okobo at 6'2" needs to become a PG or his career won't go anywhere.

NBADraftnet comparison is Roddy Beaubois who I was kind of high on early.  Super quick and kind of fearless, but not a great shot.  then injuries added up and he never cut down on turnovers, and size limited him when he wasn't able to become a legit NBA PG.

Here's the link if you want to read all the positives on Okobo:
http://www.nbadraft.net/players/elie-okobo

But you don't want to have a 2nd round rook run your team.
Recipe for disaster.

Thank you, YOUR THOROGHNESS

Canaan is the starter
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 31, 2018, 12:56:00 PM
I am sure - by the way - you dont mean Ntilikina is better because he is taller or because he was the #8 pick.

You are smarter than that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 31, 2018, 01:07:40 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 31, 2018, 12:51:46 PM


Canaan is the starter

.......or maybe a Jarret Jack.....

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 31, 2018, 01:27:05 PM
from summer league play

Okobo is a true point guard, perhaps forgotten in today’s Steph Curry era of play. He’s effective in ways past the scoring column. He proved that he can run an offense, and he looked like he enjoyed doing so.

For a rookie, Okobo seemed confident in his game. He was vocal and commanding, and his aggressiveness on offense paired with his style of play in reminiscent of another French point guard (Tony Parker, not Frank Ntilikina).

Kokoskov has a history of developing quality point guards, and it’ll be exciting to see what he’s able to do with Elie Okobo. The young Frenchman plays much older than his age of 20.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 31, 2018, 01:44:57 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 31, 2018, 12:56:00 PM
I am sure - by the way - you dont mean Ntilikina is better because he is taller or because he was the #8 pick.

You are smarter than that.

Height = more able to play SG and more able to be a legit combo guard.  [important since there are doubts about both of them as PG's]

#8 pick v. #31 pick = better prospect.

Pretty self-explanatory really.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 31, 2018, 01:58:14 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on August 30, 2018, 11:10:16 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 30, 2018, 04:04:23 AM
Kanter can reprise last season or, if he wants to improve his FA position, he could elevate his D, especially his help D and work in space.

I don't know what role Fiz envisages for Kanter, nor if Kanter will ever be able to move quick enough or get low enough to be a neutral (let alone plus) defender. But I do know he looks absolutely shredded and that he will show up at camp ready to score better and more efficiently than anyone else on the team. Kanter is going to put up numbers this year.

I agree with this take.  And I liked Bo's comparison to David Lee.  They're not the same, but their net result is.  Good-to-Great on offense.  Worth mentioning (negatively) for their defense.  Good locker room guys.  Team leaders in their own ways.

With regards to Chipstern, i am open to the notion of him returning beyond this season.  But the number I have in mind might be deemed "insulting"
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 31, 2018, 02:05:25 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 30, 2018, 02:09:44 PM

Believe it or not, but Darko just turned 33 this Summer.


Will they take a #1 pick for him?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 31, 2018, 02:15:53 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 31, 2018, 12:37:35 AM
Quote
The Houston Rockets traded Ryan Anderson and De'Anthony Melton to the Phoenix Suns for Marquese Chriss and Brandon Knight, league sources tell ESPN.

HOU needed a backup PG since CP3 misses some games.
Knight is expensive but not as much as RyAnderson.
Chriss can rebound and run the floor, but doesn't really have a game yet.  Raw.
Looks like HOU saves a few $M as well.

Not earth-shaking but looks like a very solid Ryno dump for HOU.
Adds a backup PG, gets to test drive a young pogo stick PF, save some money.

Not sure I see much point for PHX.
Do they even have a PG now?
(not much point, get it?)
Maybe it's to make up for the year when they had 3.
Ayton and Josh Jackson aren't going to do much without a PG.

I would've traded them Muddy for Chriss (I think).
I'd go with Marquese's bounciness over Vonleh's no offense.
On 2nd thought probably better to have Mud and Vonleh than Chriss.

Melton was terrific in Summer League from what i remember.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 31, 2018, 02:38:16 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 31, 2018, 12:51:46 PM
Canaan is the starter

Canaan is almost 6 feet tall with a career 37% FG.
Marginal bench journeyman.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 31, 2018, 02:42:35 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 31, 2018, 01:44:57 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 31, 2018, 12:56:00 PM
I am sure - by the way - you dont mean Ntilikina is better because he is taller or because he was the #8 pick.

You are smarter than that.

Height = more able to play SG and more able to be a legit combo guard.  [important since there are doubts about both of them as PG's]



I dont doubt Okobo is a point
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 31, 2018, 03:02:12 PM
Mud too . . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 01, 2018, 05:01:16 PM
What about him?

Yes, he's certainly a PG.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 01, 2018, 06:25:03 PM
I’d love strong guard play to become a signature of our team. That means Mudiay and Frank need to develop, and Burke needs to maintain in the face of raised expectations and defensive focus.

A lot depends on Robinson and Vonleh picking up different defensive assignments and finding offensive roles that let them prosper.

I’m least concerned about our wings for a change heading into a season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 01, 2018, 06:49:03 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 01, 2018, 06:25:03 PM
I’d love strong guard play to become a signature of our team. That means Mudiay and Frank need to develop, and Burke needs to maintain in the face of raised expectations and defensive focus.

A lot depends on Robinson and Vonleh picking up different defensive assignments and finding offensive roles that let them prosper.

I’m least concerned about our wings for a change heading into a season.

Lots of interesting narratives at play. 

Not the least of which is COMPETITION at every position. 

PARTICULARLY at the point.  Feeling good about Burke, Ntilikina and Mudiay. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 01, 2018, 07:53:32 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 01, 2018, 06:25:03 PM
I’d love strong guard play to become a signature of our team. That means Mudiay and Frank need to develop, and Burke needs to maintain in the face of raised expectations and defensive focus.

A lot depends on Robinson and Vonleh picking up different defensive assignments and finding offensive roles that let them prosper.

I’m least concerned about our wings for a change heading into a season.

You really should stop putting them in the same boat.  Frank is on a lower rung of the ladder.  It will be so evident this year as Mudiay continues to blossom
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 01, 2018, 08:43:06 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 01, 2018, 07:53:32 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 01, 2018, 06:25:03 PM
I’d love strong guard play to become a signature of our team. That means Mudiay and Frank need to develop, and Burke needs to maintain in the face of raised expectations and defensive focus.

A lot depends on Robinson and Vonleh picking up different defensive assignments and finding offensive roles that let them prosper.

I’m least concerned about our wings for a change heading into a season.

You really should stop putting them in the same boat.  Frank is on a lower rung of the ladder.  It will be so evident this year as Mudiay continues to blossom

More drive by shootings masquerading as analysis from our PooBah of personal Prejudice, the same handicapper, one hastens to add, who had Sebastian Telfair and Jimmer Freddette singled out for greatness. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on September 01, 2018, 10:53:49 PM
I really didn't
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 01, 2018, 11:29:53 PM
Frank Ntilikina = a young Tom Brady
Kevin Knox = Randy Moss
Porzingis = Gronkowski (of course)
Hardaway Jr. = Dion Lewis

And we should win 12-14 games easy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on September 02, 2018, 12:03:50 AM
Knix get a chance to see and evaluate the youths and get rid of some of the anchorage uncle Phil brought in.
Title: Chiiico
Post by: carlos123 on September 02, 2018, 12:33:18 AM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on September 01, 2018, 10:53:49 PM
I really didn't

Triple-i chiiico is definitely weirder than Double-i chiico.

Both are equally entertaining.

Now that El Trumpo made clear he’s gonna fire (via Twitter of course) Mr. Sessions in November, I think either of the chiiicos should be his next AG, he couldn’t be much worse. But remember, one of them chiicos is Mexican. What is one to do?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 03, 2018, 02:52:34 AM
So Phoenix is reportedly on the hunt for a PG. Here is a way they could get one that would be beneficial to both teams. It works under the salary cap and fits with the idea that they need a pg badly now (though with Knight, the May have needed one badly before) and that they are acquiring vets for a playoff push.

Trey Burke and Courtney Lee for Daryl Aurthur and Mikal Bridges.

It gives them the services and bird rights for Burke along with Lee, another valuable 3&D vet to add to the vet group of Chandler, Ryno, and Ariza giving them a wing rotation of Ariza, Booker, Jackson, and Lee. Arthur wasn’t going to see time behind Ryno and TJ Warren so that’s no loss. The real cost is Mikal who was the fourth man in a group that needs a steady contributor more than another emerging talent.

Since we’re waiving JoNo anyway, we’ll wind up with

Kanter Robinson Kornet
Vonleh Aurthur  KP
Knox Hezonja Thomas
Hardaway Bridges Dotson
Frank Mudiay Baker

Kadeem Allen and Alonzo Trier remain on deck if Fizz wants more of a spark plug attacking guard.

It would be essentially leveraging Trey Burke to turn Courtney Lee into Mikal Bridges. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 03, 2018, 11:04:35 AM
Well, That's never happening.
If PHX somehow loved TB, we'd be lucky to extract TJ Warren.
Don't forget, Burke was on the scrap heap a year ago, and still only projects as a dangerous scoring backup PG, if he can replicate high efficiency on tough midrange J's.

But Burke is not really an orchestrator and is ball dominant.  Would be terrible next to Booker.  Both like to handle, get their own shot and are defenseless.  They are not giving up a late lottery pick for a shrimpy backup PG who would give them the worst defensive backcourt.  I like when people look for creative trades, but that seems awfully one-sided for NYK.

One interesting option for PHX is Pa Bev.
He's a defensive menace, can hit open 3's (a 3&D PG), and can run the offense enough, while allowing DevBook to do much of the playmaking.  Pa Bev is also one of 3 PG's LAC has.  Shai and Teodesic can fill the PG position.   So they don't really need an aging and ending PaBev. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 03, 2018, 11:18:09 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 03, 2018, 02:52:34 AM
So Phoenix is reportedly on the hunt for a PG. Here is a way they could get one that would be beneficial to both teams. It works under the salary cap and fits with the idea that they need a pg badly now (though with Knight, the May have needed one badly before) and that they are acquiring vets for a playoff push.

Trey Burke and Courtney Lee for Daryl Aurthur and Mikal Bridges.

It gives them the services and bird rights for Burke along with Lee, another valuable 3&D vet to add to the vet group of Chandler, Ryno, and Ariza giving them a wing rotation of Ariza, Booker, Jackson, and Lee. Arthur wasn’t going to see time behind Ryno and TJ Warren so that’s no loss. The real cost is Mikal who was the fourth man in a group that needs a steady contributor more than another emerging talent.

Since we’re waiving JoNo anyway, we’ll wind up with

Kanter Robinson Kornet
Vonleh Aurthur  KP
Knox Hezonja Thomas
Hardaway Bridges Dotson
Frank Mudiay Baker

Kadeem Allen and Alonzo Trier remain on deck if Fizz wants more of a spark plug attacking guard.

It would be essentially leveraging Trey Burke to turn Courtney Lee into Mikal Bridges.

When they say they want a PG they probably dont mean a Trey Burke

They just let Elfrid Payton go.

I think there are stronger teams that have a third PG that Suns might pry away - OR ......as I said - Jarret Jack, Ramon Sessions, Jameer Nelson route.  Tyler Ennis also rexently made available.

Too bad they missed on Calderon.  He was perfect as a leader but maybe not for how they want to play
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 03, 2018, 01:56:38 PM
I’m curious to see what Phoenix ultimately gets and what they give up for it. They may go the UFA route if they can’t deal for a player they like more.

I’m ok going into camp with what we’ve got and then going into the season with the best of that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 03, 2018, 02:49:53 PM
I think Okobo can be their starter at some point this year.  And Canaan is underrated.  Nelson makes sense, if he wants it.

Does anyone have Ty Lawson yet?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 03, 2018, 03:03:36 PM
I didn’t see anything about Lawson, but Jack, Sessions, and Nelson are all still available.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on September 03, 2018, 05:42:16 PM
Given the Serbian connection (Kokoskov), I could see: Milos Teodosic & Boban Marjanovic for Tyson Chandler & Richaun Holmes & Phoenix's next available second rounder.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 03, 2018, 06:42:49 PM
Kind of like the new look Clips

But I think Marjanovic is better than Chandler at this point.
Title: No News is News
Post by: Kam on September 03, 2018, 09:43:51 PM
We were supposedly waiving Joakim Noah on Sept 1...
Title: Re: No News is News
Post by: chipstern on September 03, 2018, 09:57:41 PM
Quote from: Kam on September 03, 2018, 09:43:51 PM
We were supposedly waiving Joakim Noah on Sept 1...

Hmmmmmmmm....

Would still rather keep him, as remote a possibility though that might be.  Why gift him to the T-Wolves when he could help mentor our bigs, and inculcate a defensive mindset? 

Courtly still a Knick as well. 

We shall see what happens after Labor Day.  Training camp breaks on September 24. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 03, 2018, 10:30:14 PM
Distinction was between pre 9/1 and post 9/1

EXACTLY on 9/1 is not an issue.
Title: Philosophy
Post by: carlos123 on September 04, 2018, 01:06:03 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 03, 2018, 10:30:14 PM
Distinction was between pre 9/1 and post 9/1

EXACTLY on 9/1 is not an issue.

Deep AND Profound.

EXACTLY on 9/3.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on September 04, 2018, 10:42:26 AM
You guys keep putting Robinson on the 12/15.  I am telling you - he will be G League when we tip in October.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 04, 2018, 10:42:38 AM
Financially we could cut him in early 2019 and it wouldn't make a difference to the tax/cap/apron from cutting him yesterday.

SO the question must be asked... why is he still on the roster?

So far one explanation is to make training camp more competitive.... since if we open up the roster spot before camp maybe nobody feels the urgency to compete.

That's the best explanation so far.  Open to other theories.


And i find that explanation unsatisfying.  What if he injures someone during camp?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 04, 2018, 12:55:52 PM
The flip side of that is what if one or more of our ambulatory bigs gets hurt. Then we may want to keep and play Noah, at least to start the year.

If we’re not trying to add someone, there is no urgency to cut Noah before camp.

Robinson may see plenty of GLeague time, but it will come as he holds his roster spot similar to Dotson last year. His rim protection, rim running, and finishing will keep him on the 12 man group and get him on the floor as early and often as possible.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 04, 2018, 01:42:19 PM
Apparently the FO thinks Noah can be bought out at a lesser # and wants to negotiate with Noah's camp if they want out to Minny.

I don't see the upside in this gambit.   We MAYBE save a million bucks against the cap?

The good will of setting him free is worth more.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 04, 2018, 02:16:11 PM
Deng let LAL off $7M or so.

No rush with Noah.
If he wants to meet up with Rose, Butler, Deng(?) and Thibs, he can take a small haircut.

He's getting around $50M for not playing for NYK (inc last year).
Why not try to claw $5M back?
Goodwill among players/agents is mostly bs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 04, 2018, 03:35:22 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 04, 2018, 02:16:11 PM
Deng let LAL off $7M or so.

No rush with Noah.
If he wants to meet up with Rose, Butler, Deng(?) and Thibs, he can take a small haircut.

He's getting around $50M for not playing for NYK (inc last year).
Why not try to claw $5M back?
Goodwill among players/agents is mostly bs.

5 mil across 3 years is at best a 1.67 mil cap savings.

I've never heard of anyone giving the Knicks back their money.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 04, 2018, 03:46:39 PM
If Noah comes to camp more ready to play a role than Kanter, Vonleh, or Kornet, he may win that roster spot. He’s had a couple of years to get healthy and retune his body. It seems he’s fazing out his tornado for an actual jumper. There’s no reason not to see what he’s got in comparison to the other bigs under contract.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 04, 2018, 04:32:28 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 04, 2018, 03:46:39 PM
If Noah comes to camp more ready to play a role than Kanter, Vonleh, or Kornet, he may win that roster spot. He’s had a couple of years to get healthy and retune his body. It seems he’s fazing out his tornado for an actual jumper. There’s no reason not to see what he’s got in comparison to the other bigs under contract.

I don't think Noah will come to camp MORE READY than Kanter or Robinson. 

[Vonleh projected as a PF...do you see him as O'Quinn Lite?  Kornet likely also projected as a stretch 4/hybrid 5]

Again, I am on record as believing we should keep Noah and allow him to compete and to get rotation minutes behind Kanter, and to help compete every day against Enes, and to help mentor Kornet, Robinson and Vonleh. 

I thought Hornacek really blew it big time last season in his treatment of Noah, and don't blame the big guy for freaking on him.  Look at all the minutes Jeff gave to Jack in lieu of tossing Ntilikina into the deep end of the pool.  Made a certain amount of sense, before we got Burke and Mudiay into the mix. 

Noah's contract is old news, over and done with.  We do not have to expunge every move Phil Jackson made: Porzingis, Ntilikina, Lee, Noah.  I doubt Knicks management is going to see it my way, but I fail to see the rationale in dispensing with Lee or Noah for a handful of magic beans or some illusory cap space.  Particularly, as Facil points out, when Noah is probably in the best shape he's been in since we signed him, and has something to contribute to this franchise going forward. 

Likewise, I don't like the idea of simply gifting him to the T-Wolves. 

My two cents, undervalued as it might be. 
Title: Noah
Post by: carlos123 on September 04, 2018, 10:04:41 PM
Make it 3 cents.

Keep Noah and Lee, unless we get something tempting in return.

Especially with Noah, why pay him to play with Minny? doesn't make any sense to me.
Title: Re: Noah
Post by: chipstern on September 04, 2018, 10:56:17 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on September 04, 2018, 10:04:41 PM
Make it 3 cents.

Keep Noah and Lee, unless we get something tempting in return.

Especially with Noah, why pay him to play with Minny? doesn't make any sense to me.

SO?

C: Kanter, Noah

PF-C: Porzingis, Kornet, Robinson, Vonleh, [Hicks]

SF-PF: Thomas, Knox, Herzonja

SG-SF: Hardaway, Lee, Dotson [Trier] [Allen]

PG-SG: Ntlilikna, Mudiay, Burke [Baker]

Hicks, Trier and Allen are G-League Bound. 

Noah, Lee and Baker are on the bubble. 

Depends on whether or not Perry is looking to deal or stretch Noah, Lee and/or Baker. 

Kiid sees Robinson as a lock to be on Westchester. 

Hmmmm...I doubt it. 
Title: Mindaugas Kuzminskas ???
Post by: chipstern on September 04, 2018, 10:57:32 PM
Signed with Milano in January, 2018. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 05, 2018, 01:15:58 PM
Don't put Noah in your player rotations just yet.

Looks like we have decided to dick with Noah and just cuz we still paying him, don't mean we playin him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 05, 2018, 02:31:03 PM
Seems we got ourselves a STAR.

Knox signs with Puma.

How long before KK clashes with KP?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 05, 2018, 04:14:56 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 05, 2018, 02:31:03 PM
Seems we got ourselves a STAR.

Knox signs with Puma.

How long before KK clashes with KP?

Blow it out your ass. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 05, 2018, 04:18:14 PM
Fiz wants KK to be the lead dog - sort of like Carmelo.

KP gonna just be cool with this?
Title: WTF?
Post by: chipstern on September 05, 2018, 05:34:45 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 05, 2018, 04:18:14 PM
Fiz wants KK to be the lead dog - sort of like Carmelo.

KP gonna just be cool with this?

wrong

Wrong

WRONG

LOUD WRONG.

Nothing about Carmelo

Nothing LIKE Carmelo

KP is not on the court last time I checked. 

And Knox has been communicating steadily with Porzingis, who has been encouraging him. 

Why WOULDN'T KP want KK to play like a lead dog, with OR without him.  Can only make things easier for KP coming back, if all of those double-triple teams he was facing last season after his hot start melted away.  Likewise Timmy.  Likewise Enes.  Likewise Frank-Emmanuel-Trey. 

Why do you feel this compulsion to fabricate BULLSHIT, where none exists.  And the steady drumbeat of your campaign to diminish Fizdale, when there has been ZERO EVIDENCE to suggest any negativity, such as your recent posts, which suggested "...Fiz taking advance credit for Mudiay's strong season...Lame."

Credibility cratering by the minute...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 05, 2018, 05:58:05 PM
No dislike of Knox here

Cal's guys usaully show pretty strong.

Hoping they mesh.  But not banking on it.

Even if they dont we may have one of our strongest teams since that one Woodson squad.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 05, 2018, 06:00:15 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 05, 2018, 05:58:05 PM
No dislike of Knox here

Cal's guys usaully show pretty strong.

Hoping they mesh.  But not banking on it.

Even if they dont we may have one of our strongest teams since that one Woodson squad.

Ever since KP showed Phool his ass, you've had a great big hard on for him, as if he were some punk, and not Phool. 

Duly noted. 

As for the Woodson team, you mean THE JASON KIDD TEAM. 

Proof?

Look at the record the next season with no Kidd. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 05, 2018, 06:20:10 PM
I dont care what the fuck you call it
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 05, 2018, 06:51:08 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 05, 2018, 06:20:10 PM
I dont care what the fuck you call it

I picked up on that. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 05, 2018, 08:04:56 PM
If he cared, he’d have better basketball opinions.

KP is a stretch big. Melo is a stretch big. When either is tasked with playmaking they are libel to be exposed. KK is a wing and perimeter creator. His skills mesh better with either KP or Melo than KP does with Melo.

Kid is upset his grease bomb president has set fire to his party. It’s making him salty on any topic, though it brings him no closer to truth.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 05, 2018, 08:29:03 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 05, 2018, 08:04:56 PM
If he cared, he’d have better basketball opinions.

KP is a stretch big. Melo is a stretch big. When either is tasked with playmaking they are libel to be exposed. KK is a wing and perimeter creator. His skills mesh better with either KP or Melo than KP does with Melo.

Kid is upset his grease bomb president has set fire to his party. It’s making him salty on any topic, though it brings him no closer to truth.

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/0d/96/5c/0d965c63702170aa5e605fdf8c3c40c1.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 05, 2018, 09:15:30 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 05, 2018, 08:04:56 PM
I

Kid is upset his grease bomb president has set fire to his party.



Nah, man - I get at least my 2.4 more years.
Title: AG chiiico
Post by: carlos123 on September 05, 2018, 10:24:16 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 05, 2018, 09:15:30 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 05, 2018, 08:04:56 PM
I

Kid is upset his grease bomb president has set fire to his party.



Nah, man - I get at least my 2.4 more years.

(https://arcabeanstalk.s3.amazonaws.com/var/www/html/web/custom/domain_1/image_files/sitemgr_dickjeffdickjeffdickjeff.png)

Yep, and the other chiiico may get his job
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on September 05, 2018, 11:50:00 PM
recent op ed in times https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/05/opinion/trump-white-house-anonymous-resistance.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/05/opinion/trump-white-house-anonymous-resistance.html)  calls  it out clearly.  trump calls it treason.  i call it truth.

the man is a simply a greedy bastard who sold the country for cash.

not sure what his "make america great  hat"  sells for on the web site but pretty sure it's made in china.

the whole thing is a very bad joke on us.

Russia placed the Manchurian candidate in the white house.  Either that or a first grader.

Hard to fathom.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 06, 2018, 02:29:24 AM
Dolan should invite trump to be his drummer. Tell him about all the groupies he meets after gigs, maybe offer to send him a billion dollars so he can clear some of his Russian debt as a signing bonus.

It would be money better spent than on Phil, Larry Brown, and Isiah.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 06, 2018, 06:08:25 AM
The idea that KZ is going to feel threatened by Knox is dumb on its  face.  First off KZ isn't even going to be playing for a few months.
And Knox won't likely be The Man, and anyway rooks tend to fade mid-season, coincidentally when KZ will return.

Quote
The message from new head coach David Fizdale has been in line with his own approach. “He wants me to stay in attack mode,” Knox said. “He wants me to be really aggressive on the offensive end, be able to make plays for my teammates. On defense be able to guard the best player on the other team. That’s a big responsibility for me to take, but I’m really looking forward to it.

Fizz probably also told Knox he sees him in the ROY conversation.
Fizz likes to blow smoke and pump guys up with flattering talk.
That's his motivation MO. 
Nothing wrong with challenging guys and setting lofty goals.
We'll see how it works.
Still not clear if Knox will even start, though I expect so (I mean, why not?)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on September 06, 2018, 10:45:34 AM
"Open to any theories (on Noah)"

Maybe management aren't all in agreement.  Could be a faction that feels JoNo can help on the court.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 06, 2018, 12:20:47 PM
Maybe they are intent on keeping Noah as part of their recruitment of Kevin Durant and Jimmer Freddette. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 06, 2018, 01:15:05 PM
Noah will be with us into camp. There are about eight guys competing for four spots. Noah may get one through his work or he may not.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 06, 2018, 02:45:34 PM
Funny about Durant - reading how ENES KANTER is making the push - the case to KD to consider NY.

Sounds like Enes expects to be here, which is strange, given that we decided we preferred next year's cap space.
Title: Enes
Post by: chipstern on September 06, 2018, 03:20:47 PM
Kanter likes to talk. 

He is a chatterbox. 

Comes by it honestly. 

Know he would dearly love to remain a Knick. 

Remains to be seen how his conditioning and response to Coach Fizdale's calculations (developing a dependable mid-range and long-range jumper) translates on the court and in the new conception of our offense. And if he can make another step forward on defense.   

What is surely ironic, is that given the possibility of Durant coming to New York--pretty damn remote a fantasy if you ask me--the team would likely have to let Kanter walk and use that 19 million in cap space to sign a stud muffin such as Durant. 

As we speak, hard to imagine KD not continuing with the Warriors.  I mean, why not?  Great team, great city, great community, great platform for him as a player and a person.  As presently constituted, they should be in the hunt for the NBA Finals every season for the next five years, unless some unspeakable injuries break the spell. 
Title: Note To Frank Ntilikina, Emmaneul Mudiay, Trey Burke Kevin Knox, Mario Hezonja
Post by: chipstern on September 06, 2018, 11:34:25 PM
Shawn Marion on J-Kidd: “He was one of the first guys that emphasized, ‘If you run I’ll get you the ball.’ I’m a firm believer that when I lace them up I’m ready to go. To have that reinforced to you by your point guard, isn’t that what you want to hear?”
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 07, 2018, 03:02:54 AM
Knicks announce Media Day this year as Sept. 24. …Training camp then at their facility from Sept. 25 to Sept. 30. …Open practice at Madison Square Garden will be Sept. 29 at 1 pm.

I was a big Shawn Marion fan.  Terrific on the baseline and in transition.  Great defender.  Early smallball PF. Unorthodox shot, but I modeled my near-basket flip shot on both him and Antoine Jamison.  I shoot J's with the ball slightly behind my head a la Jamaal Wilkes, and for anything within 6 or 8 feet it's too slow to load, easier to use a Marion/Jamison little push-flip.  Works especially well after catching a pass on the baseline.  You can get those off in a hurry, before the defense can respond.

And as much as I like Marion, Magic was certainly an earlier Run and I'll Get it to you PG.  Hell, Marion was in a Worthy role.

I was at the big fake market a few days ago, and a guy who sells glasses had a NJ Jason Kidd clock.  It no longer worked, but he kept it up out of nostalgia.

So I'm playing the other week, and one guy has a decent sized patch of gauze over some injury.  After a few minutes the tape starts coming off.  He sees me look at the wound, and says it was from a dog bite.  He pauses a bit, then adds, "a police dog."  Well, I'm glad he got away and all, but it's rather an odd comment.  Then a bit later he explains that his job is training police dogs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 07, 2018, 04:05:15 AM
The guys who started as guards on my HS team had this warm up where they’d methodically go to every spot within 18’ of the hoop, square their shoulders, hold the ball in front and just above the head, and shoot with just the wrist. Compared to competition, they weren’t that quick but if either could get an arm free it didn’t matter what shooting angle or coverage, the shot was usually going in.

From the film I’ve seen of Kadeem Allen, he has that in his game.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 07, 2018, 08:09:55 AM
Any time we can potentially steal a player from the Celtics it's fun.

Rooting for Allen.  Dotson better come to play.
Title: Celtics
Post by: chipstern on September 07, 2018, 11:44:07 AM
We almost stole Red Auerbach once. 

He was on his way to the airport, but a cabbie talked him out of it...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 07, 2018, 12:44:16 PM
I'm not quite sure signing a guy Ainge cut, is theft.

Its like grabbing a bag of trash left on the curb Sunday night, for pick-up by DPW Monday morning.

But if you have fun stealin' trash bags, so be it.

Auerbach?

Glad Auerbach came to his senses and put anger away.

Besides you guys had your Red, Celt's had their's.

And Auerbach could never find a good Chinese food in NYC.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 07, 2018, 01:20:12 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on September 07, 2018, 12:44:16 PM
I'm not quite sure signing a guy Ainge cut, is theft.

Its like grabbing a bag of trash left on the curb Sunday night, for pick-up by DPW Monday morning.

But if you have fun stealin' trash bags, so be it.

Auerbach?

Glad Auerbach came to his senses and put anger away.

Besides you guys had your Red, Celt's had their's.

And Auerbach could never find a good Chinese food in NYC.

Weak Partisan Poppycock
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 07, 2018, 01:21:04 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on September 07, 2018, 12:44:16 PM
I'm not quite sure signing a guy Ainge cut, is theft.


yeah, never mind

The dude sucks anyway
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 07, 2018, 01:35:08 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 07, 2018, 01:20:12 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on September 07, 2018, 12:44:16 PM
I'm not quite sure signing a guy Ainge cut, is theft.

Its like grabbing a bag of trash left on the curb Sunday night, for pick-up by DPW Monday morning.

But if you have fun stealin' trash bags, so be it.

Auerbach?

Glad Auerbach came to his senses and put anger away.

Besides you guys had your Red, Celt's had their's.

And Auerbach could never find a good Chinese food in NYC.

Weak Partisan Poppycock

That's not much of a rebuttal Chip, what is it that you object to?

I'll admit to the easy availability to good Chinese food in NYC, but I hope you understood that was TIC, but the rest is dead-on.

You want to steal Allen, a guy that Ainge cut, no problem here.

And Auerbach got over his anger at Kentucky-fried John Y Brown's idiotic meddling, stayed in Boston and rebuilt the '80s Celts from the late 70s clown-show.


 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 07, 2018, 02:22:41 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on September 07, 2018, 01:35:08 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 07, 2018, 01:20:12 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on September 07, 2018, 12:44:16 PM
I'm not quite sure signing a guy Ainge cut, is theft.

Its like grabbing a bag of trash left on the curb Sunday night, for pick-up by DPW Monday morning.

But if you have fun stealin' trash bags, so be it.

Auerbach?

Glad Auerbach came to his senses and put anger away.

Besides you guys had your Red, Celt's had their's.

And Auerbach could never find a good Chinese food in NYC.

Weak Partisan Poppycock

That's not much of a rebuttal Chip, what is it that you object to?


Not much of a post. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 07, 2018, 03:49:06 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 07, 2018, 02:22:41 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on September 07, 2018, 01:35:08 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 07, 2018, 01:20:12 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on September 07, 2018, 12:44:16 PM
I'm not quite sure signing a guy Ainge cut, is theft.

Its like grabbing a bag of trash left on the curb Sunday night, for pick-up by DPW Monday morning.

But if you have fun stealin' trash bags, so be it.

Auerbach?

Glad Auerbach came to his senses and put anger away.

Besides you guys had your Red, Celt's had their's.

And Auerbach could never find a good Chinese food in NYC.

Weak Partisan Poppycock

That's not much of a rebuttal Chip, what is it that you object to?


Not much of a post.

Well Chip I addressed the points brought up specifically about the Celts, and dealt with them efficiently and accurately.

Apparently you had a problem, but since you've chosen snark rather than an articulate thought, I can only guess at the real source of your irritation.

Always a pleasure

and best of luck with the stolen bag of trash and your dim sum

 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 08, 2018, 04:57:59 AM
Yawn
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 08, 2018, 06:04:15 AM
I think the Celts get beaten up in the frontcourt this year by the Bucks, Bulls, Sixers, and Pistons among others. Al’s not getting any younger. Theis is alright, but Baynes, big as he is isn’t that good.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 08, 2018, 10:32:44 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 08, 2018, 06:04:15 AM
I think the Celts get beaten up in the frontcourt this year by the Bucks, Bulls, Sixers, and Pistons among others. Al’s not getting any younger. Theis is alright, but Baynes, big as he is isn’t that good.

If there is a weakness its the 4 /5, but its relative to crazy depth (for now) the Celts have at at 3/4. Baynes added muscle and toughness and a tenacity on the boards that the Cs needed. And they held their own against most teams. Theis was showing real defensive skills before he was injured. Al is Al, and is not a 5. But he's way under-rated. he's a solid 2-way guy. And there is the new kid that if his alarm clock works might show something. And Jaylen Brown is turning into a 2-way monster that can be a PITA all over the court.   

I'm not too worried. Greek freak is a headache for everyone and Embiid is a match-up horror, but I've seen enough dominant 76ers centers lose to the Celts over the years.

Hoops is still a team game, where 1 on 5 usually doesnt win. and the Celts have bought into playing team D, the team is disciplined and deep (though a roster spot may be opening soon-Jabari Bird, google him) and are going to be a bitch to defend. I'm so looking forward to watching them play 2-way ball.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 08, 2018, 01:35:34 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on September 08, 2018, 10:32:44 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 08, 2018, 06:04:15 AM
I think the Celts get beaten up in the frontcourt this year by the Bucks, Bulls, Sixers, and Pistons among others. Al’s not getting any younger. Theis is alright, but Baynes, big as he is isn’t that good.

If there is a weakness its the 4 /5, but its relative to crazy depth (for now) the Celts have at at 3/4. Baynes added muscle and toughness and a tenacity on the boards that the Cs needed. And they held their own against most teams. Theis was showing real defensive skills before he was injured. Al is Al, and is not a 5. But he's way under-rated. he's a solid 2-way guy. And there is the new kid that if his alarm clock works might show something. And Jaylen Brown is turning into a 2-way monster that can be a PITA all over the court.   

I'm not too worried. Greek freak is a headache for everyone and Embiid is a match-up horror, but I've seen enough dominant 76ers centers lose to the Celts over the years.

Hoops is still a team game, where 1 on 5 usually doesnt win. and the Celts have bought into playing team D, the team is disciplined and deep (though a roster spot may be opening soon-Jabari Bird, google him) and are going to be a bitch to defend. I'm so looking forward to watching them play 2-way ball.

Yes, by all means GOOGLE Jabari Bird. 

Oh, are we being snarky? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 08, 2018, 02:53:49 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 08, 2018, 01:35:34 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on September 08, 2018, 10:32:44 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 08, 2018, 06:04:15 AM
I think the Celts get beaten up in the frontcourt this year by the Bucks, Bulls, Sixers, and Pistons among others. Al’s not getting any younger. Theis is alright, but Baynes, big as he is isn’t that good.

If there is a weakness its the 4 /5, but its relative to crazy depth (for now) the Celts have at at 3/4. Baynes added muscle and toughness and a tenacity on the boards that the Cs needed. And they held their own against most teams. Theis was showing real defensive skills before he was injured. Al is Al, and is not a 5. But he's way under-rated. he's a solid 2-way guy. And there is the new kid that if his alarm clock works might show something. And Jaylen Brown is turning into a 2-way monster that can be a PITA all over the court.   

I'm not too worried. Greek freak is a headache for everyone and Embiid is a match-up horror, but I've seen enough dominant 76ers centers lose to the Celts over the years.

Hoops is still a team game, where 1 on 5 usually doesnt win. and the Celts have bought into playing team D, the team is disciplined and deep (though a roster spot may be opening soon-Jabari Bird, google him) and are going to be a bitch to defend. I'm so looking forward to watching them play 2-way ball.

Yes, by all means GOOGLE Jabari Bird. 

Oh, are we being snarky?

Oh Chip you woke up from your nap, good.

I read your 5AM post earlier today and saw you were still sleepy and yawning and I didn't want to disturb your much needed slumber.

Is it from Insomnia? incontinence? Indigestion?

Well good luck with whatever it is that keeps you awake in the middle of the night, and makes you feel compelled to inform Elba you're tired at 5AM.

And my post was in response to Fac's Celtics observations, and I thought I did so in a straight forward manner, much as I did to yours about Auerbach.

There was no intended snark on my end. I guess its coming from elsewhere.

As to Jabari Bird's midnight troubles, given recent discussions and given kid's publicly stated appetite for Celtic leftovers and garbage I thought I'd give him a heads up that Ainge may be setting Jabari aside Sunday night, and he may be available for pick-up.

All the best, and here's hoping you enjoy a good nights sleep tonight.

But if i could suggest, perhaps if you removed the bug you got up your ass, that will result in a more uninterupted slumber.

Sweet dreams, Chip.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 08, 2018, 03:11:34 PM
The guy I am looking forward to seeing is Brad Wanamaker.  May be a real nice addition to their G rotation especially after Smahht depahts.

Not so down on Baynes as some of you.  Solid lunchpailer with underrated O skills.  And I do think Al is a pretty darn good 5 when asked to be.  Actually wish more teams would go BIG - hoping this small.......non positional trend dissipates.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 08, 2018, 08:10:37 PM
blame in on the Bosa Nova and the 3-pointer
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 09, 2018, 05:47:41 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on September 08, 2018, 02:53:49 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 08, 2018, 01:35:34 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on September 08, 2018, 10:32:44 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 08, 2018, 06:04:15 AM
I think the Celts get beaten up in the frontcourt this year by the Bucks, Bulls, Sixers, and Pistons among others. Al’s not getting any younger. Theis is alright, but Baynes, big as he is isn’t that good.

If there is a weakness its the 4 /5, but its relative to crazy depth (for now) the Celts have at at 3/4. Baynes added muscle and toughness and a tenacity on the boards that the Cs needed. And they held their own against most teams. Theis was showing real defensive skills before he was injured. Al is Al, and is not a 5. But he's way under-rated. he's a solid 2-way guy. And there is the new kid that if his alarm clock works might show something. And Jaylen Brown is turning into a 2-way monster that can be a PITA all over the court.   

I'm not too worried. Greek freak is a headache for everyone and Embiid is a match-up horror, but I've seen enough dominant 76ers centers lose to the Celts over the years.

Hoops is still a team game, where 1 on 5 usually doesnt win. and the Celts have bought into playing team D, the team is disciplined and deep (though a roster spot may be opening soon-Jabari Bird, google him) and are going to be a bitch to defend. I'm so looking forward to watching them play 2-way ball.

Yes, by all means GOOGLE Jabari Bird. 

Oh, are we being snarky?

Oh Chip you woke up from your nap, good.

I read your 5AM post earlier today and saw you were still sleepy and yawning and I didn't want to disturb your much needed slumber.

Is it from Insomnia? incontinence? Indigestion?

Well good luck with whatever it is that keeps you awake in the middle of the night, and makes you feel compelled to inform Elba you're tired at 5AM.

And my post was in response to Fac's Celtics observations, and I thought I did so in a straight forward manner, much as I did to yours about Auerbach.

There was no intended snark on my end. I guess its coming from elsewhere.

As to Jabari Bird's midnight troubles, given recent discussions and given kid's publicly stated appetite for Celtic leftovers and garbage I thought I'd give him a heads up that Ainge may be setting Jabari aside Sunday night, and he may be available for pick-up.

All the best, and here's hoping you enjoy a good nights sleep tonight.

But if i could suggest, perhaps if you removed the bug you got up your ass, that will result in a more uninterupted slumber.

Sweet dreams, Chip.

You humble me before my maker. 

Verily, I am not worthy. 

Oh, and...YAWN. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 09, 2018, 12:06:45 PM
Bird.

heh.

No room for bad actors there.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 09, 2018, 12:25:07 PM
I haven't seen any follows-up but supposedly Bird's in court tomorrow.

as an aside Knick's coulda had the orginal in the '78 draft but went with Michael Ray Richardson with the 4th pick (Bird was 6) and Spike Lee would have had to find a new foil and deal with an ethical dilemma
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 09, 2018, 05:12:57 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on September 09, 2018, 12:25:07 PM
I haven't seen any follows-up but supposedly Bird's in court tomorrow.

as an aside Knick's coulda had the orginal in the '78 draft but went with Michael Ray Richardson with the 4th pick (Bird was 6) and Spike Lee would have had to find a new foil and deal with an ethical dilemma

Red drafted Bird when he still had one more year of eligibility remaining, did he not, impervious to notions of instant gratification.  I reckon Larry was worth the one year wait, and an interval of sucking.  Something to be said for patience, vision, having a plan, and sticking to it. 

Pistol Pete played in Bird's rookie season, a shadow of himself, and Red wanted him back for another season, but The Pistol adjudged himself more harshly, and couldn't bear to play at something below his personal standards.  I always thought he was too harsh on himself, witness Bill Walton's phoenix-like ascension as a role player, spelling Parish.  Would like to think Pete could have endured as a canny veteran role player, but Pete didn't see himself that way, not out of misplaced ego, but because he didn't think he could bring it anymore.  A lost opportunity, to see Pistol Pete and Bird, as Larry was coming into full fucking bloom. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 09, 2018, 05:54:56 PM
It was a wise move by Red, no doubt.  But even he admits he didnt know just how good LB was.

No great risk at all.  He knew he was at least getting a perimeter shooter.

Knicks were loaded at forward.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 09, 2018, 05:57:51 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 09, 2018, 05:12:57 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on September 09, 2018, 12:25:07 PM
I haven't seen any follows-up but supposedly Bird's in court tomorrow.

as an aside Knick's coulda had the orginal in the '78 draft but went with Michael Ray Richardson with the 4th pick (Bird was 6) and Spike Lee would have had to find a new foil and deal with an ethical dilemma

Red drafted Bird when he still had one more year of eligibility remaining, did he not, impervious to notions of instant gratification.  I reckon Larry was worth the one year wait, and an interval of sucking.  Something to be said for patience, vision, having a plan, and sticking to it. 

Pistol Pete played in Bird's rookie season, a shadow of himself, and Red wanted him back for another season, but The Pistol adjudged himself more harshly, and couldn't bear to play at something below his personal standards.  I always thought he was too harsh on himself, witness Bill Walton's phoenix-like ascension as a role player, spelling Parish.  Would like to think Pete could have endured as a canny veteran role player, but Pete didn't see himself that way, not out of misplaced ego, but because he didn't think he could bring it anymore.  A lost opportunity, to see Pistol Pete and Bird, as Larry was coming into full fucking bloom.

Red/Bird-yup he saw an opportunity, much like he did with orchestrating Russell and figuring out a solution to Jo-Jo White's military service obligation. He was special.

And it would have been something to see younger/healthier Maravich and Cowens with Bird. That could have been specatcular.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 09, 2018, 06:04:02 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 09, 2018, 05:54:56 PM
It was a wise move by Red, no doubt.  But even he admits he didnt know just how good LB was.

No great risk at all.  He knew he was at least getting a perimeter shooter.

Knicks were loaded at forward.

The risk was substantial. Auerbach had a year to sign him or Bird could have opted into the next year's draft and would have likely been the #1 or #2 . (Magic was #1 that year).

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 09, 2018, 06:48:50 PM
Bird had no intention of tuning down Celts, who of course had plenty of cash.  They met his demand.  As all parties figured would occur.

But if you have factual evidence that it was ever in doubt, I'd be grateful.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 09, 2018, 08:17:37 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 09, 2018, 06:48:50 PM
Bird had no intention of tuning down Celts, who of course had plenty of cash.  They met his demand.  As all parties figured would occur.

But if you have factual evidence that it was ever in doubt, I'd be grateful.

Kid this is close to 40 years ago, but as I recall thefe was considerable talk as the deadline approached, and a fair amount of public negotiations, and considerable relief when he signed shortly before the deadline approached.

And it should be remembered, Bird became a star not when the Celtics drafted him after his junior year, but after his Sycamores went undefeated in his senior year, only to lose to Magic and Mich state, in the NCAA finals. Magic went #1 , Bird might have opted into that draft as a much bigger star, and gotten paid more like a #1 or $2 instead of a #6.

As to your beleif, that the "Celtics had plenty of cash" that is a phrase seldom used about the pre-Bird Celtics. The Celtics were the 4th team in Boston, and owned by a string of owners in the 60s 70s and 80s who generally ran the Celtics on the cheap.

Auerbach ran the team almost by himself, there wa little infra-strucutre it was him, Jan Volk (a lawyer/accountant), and Buddy Le Roux (trainer) that was about it.  To say the late 70's Celtic had plenty of cash is simply incorrect.

If Bird wanted to opt out he might have been avialbe to deeper pocket teams like the Lakers owned by Jack Kent Cooke or the Knicks owned by the conglomerate Gulf & Western, both who had far more financial resources than the Celtics.

If you have other specific knowledge of Bird's thinking at the time, and his negotiating strategy, please share.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 09, 2018, 09:30:09 PM
Bird got about 4 times what Magic got.

As a #1, 2.....3 with another team he would not have gotten more.  Celts basically "bought" him, as was their right at the time

And if you check the stats and awards history LB was AWESOME his first 2 years at State - and conference player of the year as a junior.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 09, 2018, 10:07:54 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 09, 2018, 09:30:09 PM
Bird got about 4 times what Magic got.

As a #1, 2.....3 with another team he would not have gotten more.  Celts basically "bought" him, as was their right at the time

And if you check the stats and awards history LB was AWESOME his first 2 years at State - and conference player of the year as a junior.

Kid
Bird as a freshman (he left IU for Indy St) or as a sophmore is irrelevant, he became known as a Jr. and a national sensation as a senior. But there's a big difference  between a mid-major conference player of the year as a junior and AP player of the year as senior.

Bird had all the leverage in his contract situation and he got what he could get from the Celts.

Auerbach was on record as stating publicly that he was not going to make Bird the highest paid player on the Celts, and Bird and Co, said they weren't going to give any discounts. And they settled on a contract shortly before the deadline.

And Bird did not get 4X Magic money. Bird got about 650K Magic got $460K.

Do you just make shit up?

Larry got the "Great White hope" premium and would have gotten it from either the Lakers or Knicks if the Celtics didn't pay up. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 09, 2018, 10:23:22 PM
Correction:

Bird got substantially more than Magic

https://www.si.com/vault/1979/10/15/824060/two-for-the-show-the-celtics-larry-bird-and-lakers-magic-johnson-have-the-hottest-hands-to-hit-the-beleaguered-nba-in-a-long-time (https://www.si.com/vault/1979/10/15/824060/two-for-the-show-the-celtics-larry-bird-and-lakers-magic-johnson-have-the-hottest-hands-to-hit-the-beleaguered-nba-in-a-long-time)

You mostly agreed with me in your last post

Forced arguments as always are down the hall.   ----->
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 09, 2018, 10:31:11 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 09, 2018, 10:23:22 PM
Correction:

Bird got substantially more than Magic

https://www.si.com/vault/1979/10/15/824060/two-for-the-show-the-celtics-larry-bird-and-lakers-magic-johnson-have-the-hottest-hands-to-hit-the-beleaguered-nba-in-a-long-time (https://www.si.com/vault/1979/10/15/824060/two-for-the-show-the-celtics-larry-bird-and-lakers-magic-johnson-have-the-hottest-hands-to-hit-the-beleaguered-nba-in-a-long-time)

You mostly agreed with me in your last post

Forced arguments as always are down the hall.   ----->

thanks for verifying my #s.

As I posted and as it says in the first paragraph of that article, Magic got $460K Bird got $650K,

4X 460 would have been almost $1.84 million.

Why did you make up 4X when a quick search can reveal the real $?

This is not a forced argument, I've pointed out your blanket observations were wrong.

If you had any recollection of the NBA pre-Bird and Magic you probably would not have tried to bullshit me.

 
Title: Saquon Barkley
Post by: chipstern on September 09, 2018, 11:02:45 PM
Watching the Giant play their season opener, they were competitive against a clearly better, more in-sync team. 

You could see burps and brain farts, failures to execute, the lack of chemistry, make that the lack of CONSISTENT CHEMISTRY which comes from playing together, lots of reps. 

Think Knicks...top-to-bottom rebuild, trying to cement an identity on both offense and defense. 

As with the Knicks, patience...learning from mistakes...remain patient and don't deviate from the plan.  The team had plenty of positive moments to go with all the stumbles. 

Having said that, I was always very, very strongly in favor of drafting Barkley at #2.  Darnold is going to be one hell of a quarter back for the Jets, but I perceived Barkley to be a very special back.  VERY SPECIAL.  What Giant brass characterized as once in a lifetime...okay, maybe once in a generation. Not making myself to a seer here, but I have fallen out of favor with the modern pro game, because they have in large part gone away from the running game.  Jaguars had an excellent running game, are committed to an equal number of runs to passes, and it enables them to control the ball and string together drives (having said that, they won on a turnover, a tipped pass and runback, so a solid, coherent defense as well). 

Well, #2 pick in the 2018 NFL draft took his lumps today, discovering unlike the collegiate level, you can't make something out of nothing just on sheer talent.  Dropped some passes, got stuffed at the line, was unable to routinely turn the corner...however. 

Saquon Barkley's first touchdown as a pro was one of the most electrifying runs I have EVER seen in 50 years of watching pro football.  OLD SCHOOL.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8PNljeoYVQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8PNljeoYVQ)

The offensive line finally gave him a hint of daylight; he burst forward into a breach within the defensive line, stopped on a dime and executed a decisive horizontal side step, a la Sayers & Sanders, turned one tackler completely around, made the next defender eat his dust in fending off an arm tackle, picked up speed breaking round end and along the sidelines as he went vertical, accelerating by a pair of defenders trying to disengage through a downfield block, stiff arming a tackler as he zoomed by, absorbing a glancing hit meant to knock him out of bounds, as he did some ballerina toe stepping along the sidelines, regaining his balance and forward momentum, shifting into his Secretariat gear as he pulled away from the final tackler, something of a speedster, but not speedster enough. 

Breathtaking.  I was screaming out loud, and I haven't given a damn about pro football in a while, but Saquon Barkley?  A throwback running back with size and speed, jukes and toughness.  Too soon to christen him as a bigger version of Barry Sanders, or to invoke the names of similarly sized and high velocity backs such as Eric Dickerson or Bo Jackson, but the strength the body the motor and the WILL are all there. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 10, 2018, 04:17:17 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 07, 2018, 01:20:12 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on September 07, 2018, 12:44:16 PM
I'm not quite sure signing a guy Ainge cut, is theft.

Its like grabbing a bag of trash left on the curb Sunday night, for pick-up by DPW Monday morning.

But if you have fun stealin' trash bags, so be it.

Auerbach?

Glad Auerbach came to his senses and put anger away.

Besides you guys had your Red, Celt's had their's.

And Auerbach could never find a good Chinese food in NYC.

Weak Partisan Poppycock

Quite weak.  Was not Jeremy Lin Houston's trash bag the Knicks scooped up - causing Daryl Morey so much heartburn he forked over nearly $50 million to get him back?

One man's trash can become that same man's regret.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 10, 2018, 04:35:35 PM
25 mil.

Lin hadnt yet played for HOU, was just with them in preseason before joining NY.  His first team was Golden State.

I dont think HOU ended up paying the last 15 mil of Lin's deal.  They dealt him to LA.  Good business.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 10, 2018, 04:46:32 PM
Trade (not mine)

https://twitter.com/NewEraKnicks/status/1039251949319794688 (https://twitter.com/NewEraKnicks/status/1039251949319794688)

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 10, 2018, 05:34:13 PM
Pretty chewy season preview

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/new-york-knicks-2018-19-nba-season-preview/ (http://www.basketballinsiders.com/new-york-knicks-2018-19-nba-season-preview/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 10, 2018, 05:58:34 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 10, 2018, 04:46:32 PM
Trade (not mine)

https://twitter.com/NewEraKnicks/status/1039251949319794688 (https://twitter.com/NewEraKnicks/status/1039251949319794688)

Thoughts?

That trade is almost the exact opposite of what we want to do. Dieng is the spiritual equivalent of Tim Hardaway, but at forward, in term of talent v. Contract. You can’t have “can he help you win?” questions about a 25 million per year player like Wiggins. His deal runs 3 more years like Hardaway and Dieng, a year longer than Noah.

No thanks to bailing Minny out.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 10, 2018, 07:45:22 PM
We could use the big, but I think Wiggins is the key guy in the deal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 10, 2018, 08:38:59 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 10, 2018, 07:45:22 PM
We could use the big, but I think Wiggins is the key guy in the deal.

No Sale.

No thanks to bailing Minny out. 

Perhaps Wiggins is chafing under the whip of Coach Thibs, but he seems oddly unmotivated last season, and Jimmy Butler is apparently not a fan.  He took a pretty significant backwards step last season, such as significant drops in FTA and FT%.  A good player, a nicely skilled player, but not a drop dead shooter or aggressive rebounder.  Oh, and 25-27-29 million a year through 2020-21?  Why? 

PS: You seem to be dismissing, well, overlooking, the presence of this Kevin Knox fellow who just showed up under the Xmas Tree at Small Forward.  Are you projecting Wiggins as a big wing SG?  Or demonstrably more upside than Knox?  And Dieng?  We get rid of Noah to add a player with an extra year at comparable money?  We need bigs?  We presently have Kanter, Noah, Kornet and Robinson (who you apparently think is a mirage).  And this Porzingis fellow is slated to return at some point. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 10, 2018, 08:52:33 PM
Who are you talking to?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 10, 2018, 08:59:20 PM
Whosoever is advocating for this trade. 

Someone was running it up the flag pole to see if anyone lurking about might salute.  Not you?  Might want to check in with the administrator and make it plain that there is only room for one Kiid on this forum. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 10, 2018, 10:35:23 PM
Are you a fucking moron?  It was a tweet.  The author is right on it.

I asked for opinions.  Didnt give one.  So, address your opinion to the masses.

I think Wiggins can play - and yeah...

a)  He had a down year, last year of his rook deal.  Cant imagine he looks like a 30 mil guy in the near future.
b)  We will likely just keep our cap space since we COVET certain talent.  Dont want to take ourselves out of the running for the best of the best.

If we did the deal, are there positives?

Yes.  Front line would be quite good, I believe.  And we still have Lee to play the 2.

But I appreciate as always your backing of THJ. 
Title: Timmy & Enes & Emmanuel & Kevin & Mario & Frank
Post by: chipstern on September 10, 2018, 10:44:49 PM
Yes, I am down with Timmy.  I think he is primed to have a career year.  The first month or two of last year, when both he and KP were clicking, we were a playoff team, until the God of Injuries intervened. 

Now if Enes and Emmanuel do likewise, and Kevin, Mario and Frank bring it, we could have an interesting team. 

I am sure the Wolves have yet to give up on Wiggins, but likely are entertaining inquiries. 

Thibs has to be flexible and find a comfort zone for him.  Third option behind Butler and Towns doesn't quite do it. 

Simmons and Embid in Philly is a nice template. 

PS: By the way, I'm not a fucking moron, but thank you for asking anyway. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 10, 2018, 10:55:09 PM
Wigs is their Otto Porter

Pretty good team over there
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 10, 2018, 11:17:51 PM
RIP, R J Adelman

https://theathletic.com/496769/2018/09/06/the-colorful-life-and-shocking-death-of-r-j-adelman-the-brains-behind-a-basketball-family/ (https://theathletic.com/496769/2018/09/06/the-colorful-life-and-shocking-death-of-r-j-adelman-the-brains-behind-a-basketball-family/)
Title: Double-i chiico tries to quote somebody
Post by: carlos123 on September 11, 2018, 12:42:37 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 10, 2018, 10:35:23 PM
Are you a fucking moron? 


“He’s a fucking moron.”
Rex Tillerson

But Rex was no referring to Chip. Now, was he chiico?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 11, 2018, 01:20:01 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 10, 2018, 10:55:09 PM
Wigs is their Otto Porter

Pretty good team over there

Kevin Knox is our Otto Porter/Andrew Wiggins, only younger and bigger. 

Exhale.  We got lucky.  Kevin is going to supercharge Hardaway and all the wings.  I remember what Allan Houston said during a brief transition in which he played with Marbury.  Said he was so open it scared him. 

Kevin & Timmy.  Guard THIS, motherfuckers. 

Now if only Hezonja can only hang with Power Forwards.

Kanter
Hezonja
Knox
Hardaway
Burke

I think Frank and Emmanuel come off the bench together like a sixth man. 

Burke?

Timmy's back court mate in college.  You can't bottle it, you can't grow it in a lab...it is the periodic table of chemistry. 
Title: Re: Double-i chiico tries to quote somebody
Post by: chipstern on September 11, 2018, 01:21:34 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on September 11, 2018, 12:42:37 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 10, 2018, 10:35:23 PM
Are you a fucking moron? 


“He’s a fucking moron.”
Rex Tillerson

But Rex was no referring to Chip. Now, was he chiico?

RX and I Don't Hang Anymore. 

It was an amicable divorce.  He got everything.  I got this little mirror. 

Color me satis-all-fired up. 
Title: Not TOO Shabby
Post by: chipstern on September 11, 2018, 02:05:09 AM
Sam Darnold.

Yes. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 11, 2018, 02:18:29 AM
Quote
Now if only Hezonja can only hang with Power Forwards.

He can’t. Fortunately we have Vonleh who can, and Lance who sorta can.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 11, 2018, 08:06:42 AM
I get such a kick out of folks using "younger" as a positive.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 11, 2018, 08:15:47 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 11, 2018, 02:18:29 AM
Quote
Now if only Hezonja can only hang with Power Forwards.

He can’t. Fortunately we have Vonleh who can, and Lance who sorta can.

Lance cant be relied on to score, which is why Mario is here.

Vonleh is a total wild card.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 11, 2018, 01:42:34 PM
Mario does score. He moves the ball and is willing to mix it up defensively more than he’s given credit for, but he gets absolutely eaten up in the post. He’s most effective as a small forward or shooting guard.

Lance may not bring scoring, but he can body up effectively and still credibly stretch the floor.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 11, 2018, 01:56:38 PM
Positionless basketball...........

Can he play?  If so, Hezonja will be on the floor at whatever position for more than five to ten minutes a night.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 11, 2018, 02:03:33 PM
He’ll probably get decent run by eating most of Lee’s minutes.

Speaking of the power forward slot, Hicks was chosen by Van Gundy for the World team this year.
Title: On the road to Zion
Post by: Kam on September 11, 2018, 03:50:58 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 11, 2018, 02:03:33 PM

Speaking of the power forward slot, Hicks was chosen by Van Gundy for the World team this year.

If so, the World Team should have top lottery odds this year
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 12, 2018, 10:38:31 AM
https://twitter.com/LakersNation/status/1039876287177711618 (https://twitter.com/LakersNation/status/1039876287177711618)

Would look good in Knicks colors
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 12, 2018, 01:19:06 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 12, 2018, 10:38:31 AM
https://twitter.com/LakersNation/status/1039876287177711618 (https://twitter.com/LakersNation/status/1039876287177711618)

Would look good in Knicks colors

Based on what?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 12, 2018, 02:14:50 PM
Kid just wants a center to play beside Kanter at PF. Think of the picks that they could set for Jimmer. He could get off 30 shots a game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 12, 2018, 02:38:50 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 12, 2018, 02:14:50 PM
Kid just wants a center to play beside Kanter at PF. Think of the picks that they could set for Jimmer. He could get off 30 shots a game.

Knee injuries are a daunting challenge to come back from. 

But my recollection of this young man on the way out the door is of a singularly self-absorbed, curiously unmotivated, pouty individual who really did not respect his own gifts, nor his commitment to those folks signing his checks. 

Also, while it is surely premature to anoint Mitchell Robinson as the second coming, Kiid's antipathy seems curiously wrought. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 12, 2018, 03:04:18 PM
The KP Robinson Knox frontcourt is worth waiting for.

Reports say Minny is in no way interested in signing a released Noah at the minimum. The same reports still have the Knicks intent on stretching him before the season.

Who is more likely to be on a roster in October, Bynum or Noah?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 12, 2018, 03:34:35 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 12, 2018, 03:04:18 PM
The KP Robinson Knox frontcourt is worth waiting for.

Reports say Minny is in no way interested in signing a released Noah at the minimum. The same reports still have the Knicks intent on stretching him before the season.

Who is more likely to be on a roster in October, Bynum or Noah?

Walt Bellamy
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 12, 2018, 04:26:20 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 12, 2018, 01:19:06 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 12, 2018, 10:38:31 AM
https://twitter.com/LakersNation/status/1039876287177711618 (https://twitter.com/LakersNation/status/1039876287177711618)

Would look good in Knicks colors

Based on what?

NEED
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 12, 2018, 06:22:36 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 12, 2018, 04:26:20 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 12, 2018, 01:19:06 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 12, 2018, 10:38:31 AM
https://twitter.com/LakersNation/status/1039876287177711618 (https://twitter.com/LakersNation/status/1039876287177711618)

Would look good in Knicks colors

Based on what?

NEED

You have outdone yourself. 

What need presupposes we pursue a 30 year old wash out who hasn't played in four years and who was physically and emotionally underwhelming when last he deigned to rehab or play? 

I'd rather have Noah. 

For that matter, if we are talking about an old school low post offensive center, why go for a gimpy mirage when we have a younger, healthier center in Brother Kanter, who is a better rebounder and FT shooter. 

And team mate.  I mean, because Bynum is a jerk.  Remember his going away ultra-cheap shot foul in the playoffs?  Hmmmm?

But hey, I'm a fucking moron.   

Duly noted. 

PS: Yes, Mitchell Robinson is slotted for G-League.  And youth is overrated. Heh. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 12, 2018, 08:22:06 PM
A washout.

Wow.

I don't see the problem with taking a look

Again - get age out of the 2018-19 equation.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 12, 2018, 09:11:49 PM
Chip has proclaimed my guy Kanter to be above Andrew Bynum, a comeback candidate to the league looking for a minimum deal.

Brilliant, that Chip.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 12, 2018, 10:20:51 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 12, 2018, 09:11:49 PM
Chip has proclaimed my guy Kanter to be above Andrew Bynum, a comeback candidate to the league looking for a minimum deal.

Brilliant, that Chip.

Yes, let's bring an immature, selfish, creaky player, four years out of the league (sporting crappy knees when last spotted among the living), on board for the minimum deal so he can pollute the gene pool, postpone the development of Kornet and Robinson, and create a log jam to prevent Kanter from discovering his true level under Coach Fizdale. 

I must confess that I did not immediately apprehend the sheer brilliance of your inspiration.  Player development at its best.  No wonder Scott Perry never makes a move without first consulting you. 

But then, mere mortals are honored to bask in your penumbra. 

Shine on...

PS: We now return to the further episodes of WET DREAMS WITH JIMMER.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 12, 2018, 10:45:00 PM
Minus Noah -if Kanter is shitcanned for 4th quarters again this guy could be a nice C option

You forgot how good Bynum was.

I forgive you.

(Fuck - he aint choosing us anyway - so lets close this case)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 13, 2018, 12:36:30 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 12, 2018, 10:45:00 PM
Minus Noah -if Kanter is shitcanned for 4th quarters again this guy could be a nice C option

You forgot how good Bynum was.

I forgive you.

(Fuck - he aint choosing us anyway - so lets close this case)

Bless you father.

Oh, and I DO recall how good he was...WAS.

We drafted Channing Frye ahead of him, and it quickly appeared that the Lakers had made a reach (Praise MITCHELL ROBINSON) that was going to pay dividends.  Of course, early in the the first round us even more daring. 

As for Kanter being pulled in the fourth quarter?

THAT was on Hornacek. 

And I would way way prefer Noah over Bynum. 

Nighty NIGHT. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 13, 2018, 01:09:08 AM
If we’re going to take a flyer on a redemptive return, I’d prefer Bosh (if enough doctors sign off) to Noah, Bynum, or Bellamy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 13, 2018, 02:14:02 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 13, 2018, 01:09:08 AM
If we’re going to take a flyer on a redemptive return, I’d prefer Bosh (if enough doctors sign off) to Noah, Bynum, or Bellamy.

Noah has a head's up on Bellamy. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 13, 2018, 03:05:19 AM
Yes. Yes he does.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on September 13, 2018, 09:05:29 AM
Heck, if Bellamy is in the mix, I'd prefer the Knicks take Reed as they did the last time they chose between the two.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 13, 2018, 09:51:50 AM
Walt Bellamy?

Without using the Google machine, (which full disclosure I did and I got the question wrong)

What was Bells 1st NBA team and who did he play for in his 2nd season?

And why would the Knicks use a roster spot on Bynum? Will he help 2-3 years from now?  Is he a mentor for young Knicks bigs?

 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 13, 2018, 10:47:30 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on September 13, 2018, 09:51:50 AM
Walt Bellamy?

Without using the Google machine, (which full disclosure I did and I got the question wrong)

What was Bells 1st NBA team and who did he play for in his 2nd season?

And why would the Knicks use a roster spot on Bynum? Will he help 2-3 years from now?  Is he a mentor for young Knicks bigs?

Thank you.

Kiid seems to believe that our current passion for youth is misplaced. 

Oh well. 

PS: Chicago Packers, which beget the Chicago Zephyrs, which beget the Baltimore Bullets.

PPS: And whom did the Knicks trade to the Bullets to get Bellamy in trade? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 13, 2018, 11:00:04 AM
Quote from: chipstern on September 13, 2018, 10:47:30 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on September 13, 2018, 09:51:50 AM
Walt Bellamy?

Without using the Google machine, (which full disclosure I did and I got the question wrong)

What was Bells 1st NBA team and who did he play for in his 2nd season?

And why would the Knicks use a roster spot on Bynum? Will he help 2-3 years from now?  Is he a mentor for young Knicks bigs?

[/Thank you.color]

Kiid seems to believe that our current passion for youth is misplaced. 

Oh well.

Bynum may be only 30, but his knees might be 70.

IMO Knicks should stick with kids this year, take their lumps, let them learn and grow, see who has a future and who doesn't, don't rush KP back and collect a decent lottery pick,

wash, rinse repeat.

IMO the tough part for Fizz is don't let the kids get too discouraged on what is going to be a discouraging year at times.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 13, 2018, 11:19:41 AM
Quote
PS: Chicago Packers, which beget the Chicago Zephyrs, which beget the Baltimore Bullets.

Chip--If you got that without the Google machine, kudos.

I forgot about the Chicago Packers, but remember the Zephyrs, and vaguely recall as a kid thinking that was a weird pro franchise name to choose to switch to. I wasn't wrong.

I think Bells was part of the trade to get Dave D, but I got no idea who the Knicks traded to get him originally.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on September 13, 2018, 11:27:38 AM
Knicks got Bellamy for Johnny Green (among others)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 13, 2018, 01:55:31 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on September 13, 2018, 11:27:38 AM
Knicks got Bellamy for Johnny Green (among others)

And Bad News Barnes, who was a #1 pick. 

And Bank, the trade for DeB involved Bellamy AND Howie Komives. 

Bells was a damn good player, who as I recall, would give the likes of Wilt and Russell fits, while occasionally vapor locking versus the Darrell Imhoff's of the world.  The motivation for the trade was a less a matter of displeasure with Walt, as the need to eliminate a log jam at the four & five spots. 

Willis was thus able to slide over from the 4 to the 5, and with Dave at the 4, we won our only championships...none before, and none since. 

Similar situation with Cartwright and Ewing, as Patrick chaffed at the notion Hubie had of him playing at the 4. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 13, 2018, 04:47:23 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on September 13, 2018, 11:27:38 AM
Knicks got Bellamy for Johnny Green (among others)

That YOUR Guitar, dude? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on September 13, 2018, 04:50:51 PM
God I wish it was.  It was Duane Allman's.  Not a great pic. 
Title: Doncic
Post by: Kam on September 13, 2018, 05:36:16 PM
too slow
Title: Re: Doncic
Post by: carlos123 on September 13, 2018, 06:04:35 PM
Quote from: Kam on September 13, 2018, 05:36:16 PM
too slow

For what?
Title: Doncic
Post by: chipstern on September 13, 2018, 07:23:15 PM
Doncic is going to be a force. 

As I recall, Larry Bird was slow and couldn't jump. 

Doncic ain't Larry Bird, but he is a heady player with physical gifts. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 13, 2018, 11:57:05 PM
He's a guard

So could be BIRD among guards

Listen to Nike.  No limits.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 13, 2018, 11:59:25 PM
Did I hear right?

Lonzo Ball in the top 100, per SI?  And Melo is not?

Also this AM - discussion of a top 5

KD, LBJ, AD, Curry and Harden

Can any player crack that 5?

Title: Chiico’s top 3
Post by: carlos123 on September 14, 2018, 12:17:57 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 13, 2018, 11:59:25 PM
Did I hear right?

Lonzo Ball in the top 100, per SI?  And Melo is not?

Also this AM - discussion of a top 5

KD, LBJ, AD, Curry and Harden

Can any player crack that 5?

Jimmer?

Lonzo?

Mudiay?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on September 14, 2018, 07:20:38 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 13, 2018, 11:59:25 PM
Did I hear right?

Lonzo Ball in the top 100, per SI?  And Melo is not?

Also this AM - discussion of a top 5

KD, LBJ, AD, Curry and Harden

Can any player crack that 5?
That's incredible! Number 100!. I'm willing to kick in 5 bucks toward the parade you're throwing
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 14, 2018, 08:21:16 AM
Certain to shoot up the list in time - I look forward to keeping you all updated on the progress.  Saw the "new" shooting form, which looks prettyt much like the old - with a small adjustment .

There was a question -

did Mitchell crack your top 25?  But quickly brushed aside by the panel.  Donovan's soph season surely one item to watch closely this season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 14, 2018, 08:40:30 AM
Interesting that Horford (16) checked in ahead of Irving (17).

A slight overrate for Al?  Not sure I'd have him in my 25.

LIST:

https://www.si.com/nba/2018/09/10/top-100-nba-players-2019-lebron-james-stephen-curry-dirk-nowitzki (https://www.si.com/nba/2018/09/10/top-100-nba-players-2019-lebron-james-stephen-curry-dirk-nowitzki)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 14, 2018, 08:45:13 AM
At his best, the 20-year-old Ball plays a beautiful weirdo brand of hoops that would merit a full chapter if “Free Darko” ever released a sequel. His passing and vision—hailed as elite by pre-draft analysts—lived up to the hype. He proved to be a capable pace-setter and a strong rebounder for his position. Most impressively, he was a plus defender right out of the gate thanks to his good size and instincts. On paper, Ball’s role in James’s new cast is intriguing. A successful blueprint would utilize him as a secondary passer and off-ball cutter, rather than as a full-time lead guard launching misguided threes in volume. Although Ball is hardly a textbook modern backcourt prospect, the dawn of “LeBronzo” promises to carry his distinctive game to new heights. — BG
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 14, 2018, 09:28:43 AM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on September 14, 2018, 07:20:38 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 13, 2018, 11:59:25 PM
Did I hear right?

Lonzo Ball in the top 100, per SI?  And Melo is not?

Also this AM - discussion of a top 5

KD, LBJ, AD, Curry and Harden

Can any player crack that 5?
That's incredible! Number 100!. I'm willing to kick in 5 bucks toward the parade you're throwing

I'm pretty sure that's what LaVar Ball kicked in to land Lonzo the 100 spot.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on September 14, 2018, 09:45:03 AM
I'm willing to add another $5.00 to the parade fund when the generational talent Lonzo Ball passes Fred VanVleet.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 14, 2018, 09:53:57 AM
I saw the list yesterday and thought, outside of maybe the top 15-20 guys, ranking current players becomes a mix of part art, part science politics and darts. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 14, 2018, 10:15:57 AM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on September 14, 2018, 09:45:03 AM
I'm willing to add another $5.00 to the parade fund when the generational talent Lonzo Ball passes Fred VanVleet.

attaboy
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 14, 2018, 10:25:16 AM
Nice to see my guys

Olynyk
Vucevic
Markaanen
Schroder
Sabonis
Randle

in the 51-100

Interesting that KP is at 52 while WIGGINS is not far behind at 74 (zzzzinnggggg, Chipster)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 14, 2018, 11:26:39 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 14, 2018, 10:25:16 AM
Nice to see my guys

Olynyk
Vucevic
Markaanen
Schroder
Sabonis
Randle

in the 51-100

Interesting that KP is at 52 while WIGGINS is not far behind at 74 (zzzzinnggggg, Chipster)

I like Maark & Sabonis, though I saw little of Indy last year.

Olynyk a rather unique player.  Needs the right situation.
Randle too, as a throwback bully PF.
I'm interested to see how he works with AD.
I like JRue so keep pulling for NOPe to right their ship.

Don't like Shroder or Vuc.

Good to see SI somewhat relevant ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 14, 2018, 11:40:01 AM
Randle does many things......

Now that he is not with Lonzo maybe you can stomach viewing his games  :)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 14, 2018, 11:48:44 AM
My guys 51-100

67 Miles Turner -- though again I didn't see INDy much last year.

71 Josh Rich -- SI touts his defense and persistence, but he can score and pass.  I'd like to see him more involved in the MIA offense.

82 Rozier - the secret's out after last year's playoffs.

94 FVV - interesting to see if he can keep it up another year, but he was perhaps the best backup PG last year.

As for vets: Batum, Rubio and 95 DMC, the skinny one, who bounced back nicely from injuries.  Aging a bit though. 
And 87 Iggy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 14, 2018, 11:58:04 AM
I like Lonzo.
Lonzo would be my 5th young guy (on the SI 51-100)
I don't care if his shot is limited for now or his Dad is a megalomaniac. He's got elite passing skills, rebounds well, and played solid D.
Let others shoot, and let him improve his shooting as his career develops.  He brings a lot.

Randle looks terrific some nights and others he just seems to barrel into people and take ugly shots.  Boards well but iffy defense.
I have trouble deciding where his career will go or what his value is.
Can he put it together and become more consistent, or will he remain erratic?  Seems like a worker bee. 

Might be one of those guys that needs the right fit/system.
Which is why the NO change-of-scenery is very intriguing.
I'm not sold on Randle, but if I were NOPe I would have also let Cousin Boogie walk and taken a chance with Randle.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 14, 2018, 11:59:26 AM
Re:  NO

Lots of PG there

Elfrid gets another shot

Darius Morris, Tony Carr, Ian Clark....

But the guy they really like - had a nice summer league - is FRANK JACKSON.

Randle, Miro, Davis TROIKA getting all the pub though.  They are really bullish on this team.

Etwuan, , Troy Williams, both Okafors......Aijinca, Diallo

Sleeper is high flying Garlon Green.  That's Gerald's bro.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on September 14, 2018, 12:20:27 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 14, 2018, 11:58:04 AM
I like Lonzo.
Lonzo would be my 5th young guy (on the SI 51-100)
I don't care if his shot is limited for now or his Dad is a megalomaniac. He's got elite passing skills, rebounds well, and played solid D.
Let others shoot, and let him improve his shooting as his career develops.  He brings a lot.

Randle looks terrific some nights and others he just seems to barrel into people and take ugly shots.  Boards well but iffy defense.
I have trouble deciding where his career will go or what his value is.
Can he put it together and become more consistent, or will he remain erratic?  Seems like a worker bee. 

Might be one of those guys that needs the right fit/system.
Which is why the NO change-of-scenery is very intriguing.
I'm not sold on Randle, but if I were NOPe I would have also let Cousin Boogie walk and taken a chance with Randle.
I like Lonzo too. And I think SI has him ranked correctly give or take. I expect him to move way up this year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 14, 2018, 12:38:11 PM
Heh

Well, that's settled.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 14, 2018, 01:05:16 PM
Does NO start AD-Randle-Mirotic?

Their bench looks pretty iffy which has been their Achilles for years.
While JRue and AD miss some games most years.

Sol Hill, OKa4's, Elfrid, Troy, Ian Clark (a mistake player).
Could work but I'm skeptical.

Might be another year of starters wearing themselves out and the bench giving up leads.
I like Gentry.  Maybe he can figure it out.
Randle might come off the bench ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 14, 2018, 01:07:03 PM
The funny thing is if Lonzo were another PG who could score and play poor defense, everyone would be fine with that (well, except Bo).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 15, 2018, 08:17:05 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 14, 2018, 01:07:03 PM
The funny thing is if Lonzo were another PG who could score and play poor defense, everyone would be fine with that (well, except Bo).

???
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 15, 2018, 11:46:42 AM
Seems clear to me.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 15, 2018, 12:48:11 PM
If for no other reasons than, a year of maturity and adding LeBron, Lonzo should benefit statistically, and the Lakers W/L record should improve dramatically. But whether he becomes a better outside shooter or much better player is another matter. I'm guessing a year of LBL and maybe a Rondo tutorial or two can't be bad.

IMO the more compelling question is how will Markelle Fultz, who did not show up in the SI's top 100 list, fair in '19?

If he's the guy who the 76ers thought when they traded for his rights, it will have a huge impact for the next several years.

if not?

A massive fuck-up.

After almost a year of tinkering in the lab has he rediscovered his mechanics?

Word out of Philly seem mixed.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 15, 2018, 02:51:22 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on September 15, 2018, 12:48:11 PM
If for no other reasons than, a year of maturity and adding LeBron, Lonzo should benefit statistically





Nah,  Not this year

Split time with Rajon.  LBJ on the ball.  LBJ gobbling boards.

In time could average a triple double minus 2-3 boards.  That type player.   Just not with the 2018-19 team.  (Would have had the chance had Celts taken him)

Wont be evaluating this soph on the statlines
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 16, 2018, 09:55:38 AM
great anecdote from today's Dan Shaughnessy (aka Shank) in today's Globe

A favorite nugget from “Basketball: A Love Story” (by Jackie MacMullan, Rafe Bartholomew, and Dan Klores, out Sept. 18) is Larry Brown recalling a 44-year-old Wilt Chamberlain showing up at UCLA for pickup games featuring Magic Johnson, who was in his prime with the Lakers. Chamberlain ends one game with a clean block of Magic at the rim, but Johnson tries to call goaltending. According to Brown, who was UCLA’s head coach at the time, “Wilt grabs the ball from Magic and says, ‘We’re gonna play another game, and they’ll be no more shots at this basket.’ And he proceeded to block everything."


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on September 16, 2018, 12:37:42 PM
Wouldn't be surprised to see Alonzo Trier kept instead of Ron Baker, if the decision comes down to that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 16, 2018, 01:06:38 PM
No question Trier is better than Baker. I wonder if Allen is better Trier at this point as well as being better than Baker. If so, Allen should get Baker’s spot and Trier should remain a 2-way guy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 16, 2018, 02:03:26 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on September 16, 2018, 12:37:42 PM
Wouldn't be surprised to see Alonzo Trier kept instead of Ron Baker, if the decision comes down to that.

I am going to say Knicks management likes Baker's makeup so much that he is almost in "will not cut" territory.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 16, 2018, 02:26:56 PM
Since you have zero basis for this, I am not going to believe you.

Baker is going to lock down Jimmer in pretty white boy battles in the Far East.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 16, 2018, 03:45:54 PM
Well, Baker has the contract going for him.

Be interesting to see what he's added to his game.
Good hustle, toughness, feel for the game.  Just needs to add one viable skill to that package.
Likely the difference between a 2-3 year career and a 6-7 year career.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 16, 2018, 05:46:10 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 16, 2018, 03:45:54 PM
Well, Baker has the contract going for him.

Be interesting to see what he's added to his game.
Good hustle, toughness, feel for the game.  Just needs to add one viable skill to that package.
Likely the difference between a 2-3 year career and a 6-7 year career.

Good tough defender. 

Knicks always rallied behind him on D when Ron was on the floor. 

All of these big wings Knicks are brining on board are a pointed message, not only to Ron, but to Timmy and Courtney. 

I really liked what I saw from Trier in summer league.  I think he is capable of creating his own shot at the NBA level. 

Baker will compete like hell with all of the wings, we know that going in. 

If as you suggest, he develops a skill, such as, oh,  A CONSISTENT SHOT FROM LONG RANGE, his chances increase dramatically. 

PS: Bo, while I was driving my taxi last night, I picked up a cat on the lower East Side and took him to Brooklyn.  Turned out to be the Nets dentist. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 16, 2018, 09:54:26 PM
Lets see.......

.333 a  year ago from deep

.369 in college, making 2 per game.

Trend would say RB gets to about an 11 PER this year.  We'll see.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 17, 2018, 12:21:19 AM
Also based on those identical trends, year 1 to year 2, his 2pt percentage should fall to .250, he should pull 0.1 rebounds, and he should play in 3 total games.

Maybe as a guy who knows his NBA career is on the line, he has transformed himself into a much more useful player. The picture will get clearer in a couple of weeks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 17, 2018, 04:48:58 AM
Bzdelik retiring to avoid having to coach defense out of Melo.

It is sort of weird timing.
With the season upcoming and the team a contender.
Lost Ariza and Luc M&M, who were their switch everything guys.

I was always surprised Buzz didn't get another head coaching op after Denver.  They were terrible his first year in the wake of McDyess' knee injury.  Then he got them to the playoffs with a winning record the next year behind a rook named Melo, then was canned part way through his 3rd year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 17, 2018, 07:53:06 AM
Fun time waster.
Each teams all-time starting 5.
Two requirements: 1) 5 years with the team & 2) one team per player (Kareem can only be a Buck or Lkae, not both).
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/photos/each-nba-teams-all-time-starting-five/

They cheat on positions a fair amount, and the thing I noticed was how weak the PF slot is/was.  Mostly they move another dominant C over to PF to cover.

I was surprised how good the Nuggets 5 were:
Fat Lever, David Thompson, Alex English, Melo, Issel.
That's some crazy scoring/shooting.

Richie Guerin over AH?

Pau needs to be on the Griz squad.  And Gay over Mike Miller as well.

3 of Atlanta's 5 were throwbacks: Wilkens, Lou Hudson, and Bob Pettit.

There's a number of throwback guys I know little or nothing about:
Paul Arizin, Guerin, Bob Love, Chet Walker ...



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 17, 2018, 09:12:11 AM
Nice piece on Bzdelik, including how Knicks lost him (dammit, Riley) and ties to NBA legend Wes Unseld

https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/bjpbd8/meet-the-defensive-genius-behind-the-rockets-championship-push-jeff-bzdelik-harden (https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/bjpbd8/meet-the-defensive-genius-behind-the-rockets-championship-push-jeff-bzdelik-harden)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 17, 2018, 09:52:29 AM
Give D'antmanbee credit for taking Bzdelik on as a defensive guru, covering for Dant's weakness.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 17, 2018, 10:18:29 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 17, 2018, 09:12:11 AM
Nice piece on Bzdelik, including how Knicks lost him (dammit, Riley) and ties to NBA legend Wes Unseld

https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/bjpbd8/meet-the-defensive-genius-behind-the-rockets-championship-push-jeff-bzdelik-harden (https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/bjpbd8/meet-the-defensive-genius-behind-the-rockets-championship-push-jeff-bzdelik-harden)

404 Error Message. 

Bzdelik. 

You win some.  You lose some. 

Anyone still lamenting how we didn't get Tom Thumb Thibs? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 17, 2018, 10:29:33 AM
A good piece.
The odd thing is the article loads for me, then goes to a 404 Error message.
So I just had to stop the loading process and then was able to read it.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on September 18, 2018, 10:00:04 AM
I didn't realize Scott Layden was GM of Minnesota.

They are gonna F'up Towns/Butler FOR SURE!

Maybe we can get JB for season opener.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 18, 2018, 11:38:31 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on September 18, 2018, 10:00:04 AM

Maybe we can get JB for season opener.

HYPOTHETICAL Fantasy trade

Would you trade #1 picks for Butler.  (And whatever salary is needed: THjr or Noah if they prefer)

Pro:

With Butler in trade, you only need to open up one more max salary
Makes it more likely you get Irving.

Cons:

Would take at least 2 #1 picks.

Title: Jimmy
Post by: chipstern on September 18, 2018, 12:01:30 PM
A wonderful player.  For sure.

But once again, I am forced to upchuck at the suggestion that we trade #1 picks. 

NONONONONO

No. 

And Scott Perry agrees with me, thank goodness, as he rejects the idea of trading our most valuable assets for players who we might be able to get in free agency without gutting our team. 

Melo and Marbury anyone? 

Hell, EDDY CURRY for fuck's sake. 

As for free agency, we will have plenty of free agents of our own come the spring/summer of 2019. 

Based on how our "busts" and "bust-outs" do, we will have some serious decisions to make about talent, and the decision making process will be very revealing of how this team proceeds going forward. 

That is to say, do we gut our own squad of our own free agents in order to create MAXIMUM SPACE, or TWO MAXIMUM SPACES. 

My own vote would be no, but it is too early to make any such determinations. 

On September 24 everyone, players, management, coaches, go ON THE CLOCK. 

WHO WANTS TO BE A KNICK.

WHO WANTS TO REMAIN A KNICK. 

PS: But Chip, are you saying that under no circumstances would you trade any of our #1 picks?  YES, that is exactly what I am saying.  No short cuts.  No instant gratification.  THAT IS WHAT I AM SAYING. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 18, 2018, 12:15:37 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on September 18, 2018, 10:00:04 AM
I didn't realize Scott Layden was GM of Minnesota.

They are gonna F'up Towns/Butler FOR SURE!

Maybe we can get JB for season opener.

Highly respected NBA coach/exec.  Always has been.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 18, 2018, 12:16:54 PM
Quote from: Kam on September 18, 2018, 11:38:31 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on September 18, 2018, 10:00:04 AM

Maybe we can get JB for season opener.

HYPOTHETICAL Fantasy trade

Would you trade #1 picks for Butler.  (And whatever salary is needed: THjr or Noah if they prefer)

Pro:

With Butler in trade, you only need to open up one more max salary
Makes it more likely you get Irving.

Cons:

Would take at least 2 #1 picks.

I will hold off on everything and take the shot at KD - thanks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 18, 2018, 12:18:56 PM
No #1s!!!!

Check out Chip - pining for the likes of Romeo Langford and Jontay Porter.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 18, 2018, 12:19:38 PM
Kid, if you were doing the picking any pick would be worthless, but you thankfully make none of those decisions.

Jimmy on the cheaps or not at all. No trading picks!

Laydumb is respected in so much as you are confusing ridicule for respect.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 18, 2018, 12:20:10 PM
Earl Monroe? A WONDFERFUL player, for sure.

But........



heh.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 18, 2018, 12:34:00 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 18, 2018, 12:15:37 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on September 18, 2018, 10:00:04 AM
I didn't realize Scott Layden was GM of Minnesota.

They are gonna F'up Towns/Butler FOR SURE!
Maybe we can get JB for season opener.

Highly respected NBA coach/exec.  Always has been.

Yeah, I was wrong.
After the Knix, I said Layden wouldn't get another GM job.
Though it's still Thibs as PoB Op calling the shots, right?

The GM title isn't what it used to be ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 18, 2018, 12:40:54 PM
An interesting outlook on the season...

http://basketball.realgm.com/analysis/251115/The-Knicks-Are-Finding-Direction-And-Identity-In-A-Lost-Year (http://basketball.realgm.com/analysis/251115/The-Knicks-Are-Finding-Direction-And-Identity-In-A-Lost-Year)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 18, 2018, 01:09:45 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 18, 2018, 12:19:38 PM
Kid, if you were doing the picking any pick would be worthless, but you thankfully make none of those decisions.

Jimmy on the cheaps or not at all. No trading picks!

Laydumb is respected in so much as you are confusing ridicule for respect.

The NBA exists outside of your tiny bubble.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on September 18, 2018, 01:34:39 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 18, 2018, 12:34:00 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 18, 2018, 12:15:37 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on September 18, 2018, 10:00:04 AM
I didn't realize Scott Layden was GM of Minnesota.

They are gonna F'up Towns/Butler FOR SURE!
Maybe we can get JB for season opener.

Highly respected NBA coach/exec.  Always has been.

Yeah, I was wrong.
After the Knix, I said Layden wouldn't get another GM job.
Though it's still Thibs as PoB Op calling the shots, right?

The GM title isn't what it used to be ...

Ha. Kiid freaked out when I tried to make the same point.

GM = the assistant GM
VP Basket Ops = the real GM
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 18, 2018, 02:16:19 PM
Kid like yes men, morons, and the otherwise unqualified or simply wrong headed. It’s true here, but even more true in the political forums.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 18, 2018, 02:19:19 PM
Pelicans sign Jarrett Jack.

Fans seem happy.  Some say Jrue can play some 2 guard.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 18, 2018, 02:30:44 PM
Nice Wolves interview - for those Jonesing for some Layden:

https://www.nba.com/timberwolves/news/layup-line-episode-4-timberwolves-general-manager-scott-layden (https://www.nba.com/timberwolves/news/layup-line-episode-4-timberwolves-general-manager-scott-layden)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 18, 2018, 03:19:52 PM
Sadly Celtics couldnt help Bird

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/251153/Jabari-Bird-Sought-Mental-Health-Help-Before-Domestic-Violence-Incident (https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/251153/Jabari-Bird-Sought-Mental-Health-Help-Before-Domestic-Violence-Incident)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 18, 2018, 04:11:32 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 18, 2018, 12:20:10 PM
Earl Monroe? A WONDFERFUL player, for sure.

But........



heh.

No #1 pick involved. 

Mike Riordan-Dave Stallworth-Cash

Also, not that it would matter to you, the Knicks were an established, championship grade franchise, with a solid core of proven veterans. 

So they gave value to get value. 

Heh?

DUH
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on September 18, 2018, 04:15:51 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 18, 2018, 02:19:19 PM
Pelicans sign Jarrett Jack.

Fans seem happy.  Some say Jrue can play some 2 guard.

Good landing spot for Jarrett.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 18, 2018, 04:58:41 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on September 18, 2018, 01:34:39 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 18, 2018, 12:34:00 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 18, 2018, 12:15:37 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on September 18, 2018, 10:00:04 AM
I didn't realize Scott Layden was GM of Minnesota.

They are gonna F'up Towns/Butler FOR SURE!
Maybe we can get JB for season opener.

Highly respected NBA coach/exec.  Always has been.

Yeah, I was wrong.
After the Knix, I said Layden wouldn't get another GM job.
Though it's still Thibs as PoB Op calling the shots, right?

The GM title isn't what it used to be ...

Ha. Kiid freaked out when I tried to make the same point.

GM = the assistant GM
VP Basket Ops = the real GM

It's Thibs

Then it's Layden

Unless you think Mr Yoshimoto is out making deals

https://www.nba.com/timberwolves/team/basketball-operations (https://www.nba.com/timberwolves/team/basketball-operations)

Have to think Scott does much of the legwork and Thibs has the hammer.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 18, 2018, 04:59:08 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on September 18, 2018, 04:15:51 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 18, 2018, 02:19:19 PM
Pelicans sign Jarrett Jack.

Fans seem happy.  Some say Jrue can play some 2 guard.

Good landing spot for Jarrett.

Happy for JJ.

A Pro's Pro. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 18, 2018, 05:24:36 PM
I guess Jamie Matthews, not Scott Perry, makes Knicks trades.

https://www.nba.com/knicks/front-office (https://www.nba.com/knicks/front-office)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 18, 2018, 05:39:03 PM
Seriously though - with Layden.....

UGH on the draft picks he did make

The forum liked Sweetney

heh

- and Harrington - while being a need - was an overpay.

But in Scott's defense -

he added Van Horn..... then Keith was jettisoned for Tim Thomas after Layden was fired

And Thomas begot Curry - again - under the new GM

You all got what you deserved after skewering the guy out of town
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 18, 2018, 05:52:00 PM
More Self-Inflated, Self-Congratulatory, Revisionist Bullshit. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 18, 2018, 06:09:51 PM
By the way - Andrei Kirilenko was a Layden fave - and could very well have been Knicks pick at 15 in place of Weis.  But he was hired AFTER that draft went down

Donnell Harvey was a very good collegian - and we just missed on Mo Pete and Claxton that year. At 22, whatareyougonnado?  Nene deal, say what you want - good pick. 

As I said - Harrington........  and Sweetney.......

Rest was B+ stuff.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 18, 2018, 06:12:54 PM
Last -

Scott fired -

and THIS happens

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2014/08/retrospective-stephon-marbury.html (https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2014/08/retrospective-stephon-marbury.html)

reminding all that Layden did legwork on this and WOULD NOT PULL THE TRIGGER WITH PENNY IN THE DEAL.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 18, 2018, 06:18:55 PM
Harvey was an empty vessel. 

In fairness, that draft was a desert after him.  A remarkable absence of talent. 

Weis was drafted by Affirmative Ed Tapscott, a bum's bum, who was put off by how street Ron Artest was.  Also, he was on his way out the door, so not beyond the realm of reason that he fucked the Knicks as a parting gift. 

Of course, poor Weis...douche nozzle Van Gundy punked and demeaned him, and they were experimenting with new rules & new refs in summer league, so Weis absorbed an orgy of foul calls, had what little confidence he possessed beaten out of him, and the rest is history. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 18, 2018, 07:03:25 PM
No

Not what happened - and yeah, I mentioned Layden didnt make the Weis pick -but thanks for filling the third graders in on who did

They trusted Ed and he liked Weis

Fred was a bit of a tin man - and preferred Europe

Likely an agent that convinced him to enter the draft.  Our loss.  FRED needed a role model stateside. None forthcame.  But you are right - we embarassed him by letting him be a foul machine in summer league

Again - not winning anything at that time anyway And RonRon was no guarantee to own NY

SWEETNEY was the killah.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 18, 2018, 09:20:18 PM
Shandon Anderson
Howard Eisley
Clarence Weatherspoon


were the killers
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 18, 2018, 09:26:24 PM
Quote from: Kam on September 18, 2018, 09:20:18 PM
Shandon Anderson
Howard Eisley
Clarence Weatherspoon


were the killers

Facts.
Title: Facts?
Post by: carlos123 on September 18, 2018, 10:47:18 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 18, 2018, 09:26:24 PM
Quote from: Kam on September 18, 2018, 09:20:18 PM
Shandon Anderson
Howard Eisley
Clarence Weatherspoon


were the killers

Facts.

Not so fast.

chiico has his alternative facts.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 18, 2018, 11:06:53 PM
Quote from: Kam on September 18, 2018, 09:20:18 PM
Shandon Anderson
Howard Eisley
Clarence Weatherspoon


were the killers

Like I said - team wasnt any good - didnt matter
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 18, 2018, 11:08:48 PM
I still laugh my ass off at all you Marbury lovers
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 19, 2018, 12:36:54 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 18, 2018, 11:08:48 PM
I still laugh my ass off at all you Marbury lovers

Says the Telfair promoter.

never liked anything about either of them.

And besides their questionable attitudes and styles of play, neither seemed like they could handle being in NYC around their homies.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 19, 2018, 12:38:31 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 18, 2018, 11:06:53 PM
Quote from: Kam on September 18, 2018, 09:20:18 PM
Shandon Anderson
Howard Eisley
Clarence Weatherspoon
were the killers

Like I said - team wasnt any good - didnt matter

So Layden decided to continue the trend.
Those contracts clogged us up.

Giving large and long contracts to UTA role players ...
Not good.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 19, 2018, 12:59:45 AM
My past laughs at the Forum:

- when some folks were turning in their Jr. Knick badges because Mozguy was tossed into the Melo trade.

- when some folks were going to stop being Knick fans because Knix let Jeremy Lin go instead of matching HOU's overpay.  As expected, Lin has been a solid backup PG, nothing more.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on September 19, 2018, 03:03:47 AM
Quote from: chipstern on September 18, 2018, 04:59:08 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on September 18, 2018, 04:15:51 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 18, 2018, 02:19:19 PM
Pelicans sign Jarrett Jack.

Fans seem happy.  Some say Jrue can play some 2 guard.

Good landing spot for Jarrett.

Happy for JJ.

A Pro's Pro.

Excellent.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 19, 2018, 04:45:27 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 18, 2018, 02:19:19 PM
Pelicans sign Jarrett Jack.
Fans seem happy.  Some say Jrue can play some 2 guard.

Oh, I don't think Jack will steal another starting PG job ...
But he is capable of stealing Elfrid's lunch.

JRue is best when he can play as a combo guard.
Lets him focus on scoring and saves energy for his very good defense.
He's less comfortable playing fulltime traditional PG.
But JRue needs to stay healthy.
Having Elfrid and Jack lets him keep his minutes/effort in check somewhat.  So much for Frank Jax.

Otherwise, I like DeAndre Liggins defense.
he's a bit too aggressive and foul prone.
But if he can amp down a little, he really gets at players.
Didn't realize he's 30 already.
Seems he still needs to slow down a little on both ends.

So a bench of Randle - Darius Miller - Ian Clark/Liggins - Elfrid/Jack
Ajinca and Okafors as backup Bigs.
(assuming Sol Hill starts and Randle rampages on the 2nd unit)

If JRue and AD stay healthy.
Mirotic and ETwuan bomb away.
They could be in contention for the 5-7 seed.
Though I'd expect them more around 8th.
Maybe Gentry can put it together for them.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 19, 2018, 09:01:13 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 19, 2018, 12:36:54 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 18, 2018, 11:08:48 PM
I still laugh my ass off at all you Marbury lovers

Says the Telfair promoter.

never liked anything about either of them.

And besides their questionable attitudes and styles of play, neither seemed like they could handle being in NYC around their homies.

Telfair never got the opportunity.

And was never in Stephon's class as an athlete.  Some similarities - but one had star quality, surely.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 19, 2018, 09:03:26 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 19, 2018, 12:38:31 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 18, 2018, 11:06:53 PM
Quote from: Kam on September 18, 2018, 09:20:18 PM
Shandon Anderson
Howard Eisley
Clarence Weatherspoon
were the killers

Like I said - team wasnt any good - didnt matter

So Layden decided to continue the trend.
Those contracts clogged us up.

Giving large and long contracts to UTA role players ...
Not good.

Yeah, no tear down. 

Like many before him, winning the most games THAT year was the quest.

Those guys (ShanAn, Clarence, Howard) werent stars - but werent meant to be.  I think you insult their drive and professionalism here.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 19, 2018, 09:11:27 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 19, 2018, 04:45:27 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 18, 2018, 02:19:19 PM
Pelicans sign Jarrett Jack.
Fans seem happy.  Some say Jrue can play some 2 guard.

Oh, I don't think Jack will steal another starting PG job ...
But he is capable of stealing Elfrid's lunch.

JRue is best when he can play as a combo guard.
Lets him focus on scoring and saves energy for his very good defense.
He's less comfortable playing fulltime traditional PG.
But JRue needs to stay healthy.
Having Elfrid and Jack lets him keep his minutes/effort in check somewhat.  So much for Frank Jax.

Otherwise, I like DeAndre Liggins defense.
he's a bit too aggressive and foul prone.
But if he can amp down a little, he really gets at players.
Didn't realize he's 30 already.
Seems he still needs to slow down a little on both ends.

So a bench of Randle - Darius Miller - Ian Clark/Liggins - Elfrid/Jack
Ajinca and Okafors as backup Bigs.
(assuming Sol Hill starts and Randle rampages on the 2nd unit)

If JRue and AD stay healthy.
Mirotic and ETwuan bomb away.
They could be in contention for the 5-7 seed.
Though I'd expect them more around 8th.
Maybe Gentry can put it together for them.

Certainlya  fun team to watch

Thought I saw Liggins was released.  More could be forthcoming.    Jack signing could foreshadow a Payton deal. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 19, 2018, 10:07:32 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 19, 2018, 09:01:13 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 19, 2018, 12:36:54 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 18, 2018, 11:08:48 PM
I still laugh my ass off at all you Marbury lovers

Says the Telfair promoter.

never liked anything about either of them.

And besides their questionable attitudes and styles of play, neither seemed like they could handle being in NYC around their homies.

Telfair never got the opportunity.

And was never in Stephon's class as an athlete.  Some similarities - but one had star quality, surely.

Sigh

More shameless revisionist bullshit. 

Now he "didn't get the opportunity."

He got EVERY OPPORTUNITY. 

Averaged 21.5 minutes in 564 games over ten seasons. 

Everyone on this forum has a functioning memory.  So best of luck in rewriting your well-documented assertions. 

PS: We now begin the countdown for Jimmer Fredette's inevitable return to the NBA, and your spin thereof. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on September 19, 2018, 10:22:11 AM
Quote from: chipstern on September 19, 2018, 10:07:32 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 19, 2018, 09:01:13 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 19, 2018, 12:36:54 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 18, 2018, 11:08:48 PM
I still laugh my ass off at all you Marbury lovers

Says the Telfair promoter.

never liked anything about either of them.

And besides their questionable attitudes and styles of play, neither seemed like they could handle being in NYC around their homies.

Telfair never got the opportunity.

And was never in Stephon's class as an athlete.  Some similarities - but one had star quality, surely.

Sigh

More shameless revisionist bullshit. 

Now he "didn't get the opportunity."

He got EVERY OPPORTUNITY. 

Averaged 21.5 minutes in 564 games over ten seasons. 

Everyone on this forum has a functioning memory.  So best of luck in rewriting your well-documented assertions. 

PS: We now begin the countdown for Jimmer Fredette's inevitable return to the NBA, and your spin thereof.
If I knew how to post clapping hands or a thumbs-up, I'd do that here.       
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 19, 2018, 12:30:07 PM
Yeah, seems Liggins was waived.

Telfair averaged 35 starts his first 5 seasons.
He was MINNy's starting PG for 2 seasons.

Couldn't shoot straight.
Career 39% FG and didn't have a reliable 3 point shot.

The sad thing is he couldn't even manage to be a reliable long-term backup PG, which he should have had enough skill for.
Some injuries and likely not enough hard work.
8 teams in parts of 10 seasons.
Out of the league at age 27.
But that's what happens when you can't shoot or defend.

What I found frustrating is that he had a good handle and was super-quick.  So he could get almost anywhere he wanted.  But then too often would stop, pause, and let the defense recover.
Didn't make quick passes, was reluctant to shoot, and rarely attacked the rim. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on September 19, 2018, 01:13:00 PM
Don't give up on the guy. He may still be "continuing to blossom."
Title: Brandon Jennings
Post by: Kam on September 19, 2018, 01:41:13 PM
Brandon Jennings had the career telfair could have had.
Title: Re: Brandon Jennings
Post by: chipstern on September 19, 2018, 01:49:36 PM
Quote from: Kam on September 19, 2018, 01:41:13 PM
Brandon Jennings had the career telfair could have had.

Except Brandon didn't get busted on weapons possession charges.

Lack of ambition, perhaps? 
Title: Jimmy Butler asks for a trade
Post by: Kam on September 19, 2018, 01:52:51 PM
Yesterday none of you wanted him if picks were involved.


Now he has a short list of 3 teams supposedly.


Are you still willing to be patient?
Title: Re: Jimmy Butler asks for a trade
Post by: chipstern on September 19, 2018, 01:55:12 PM
Quote from: Kam on September 19, 2018, 01:52:51 PM
Yesterday none of you wanted him if picks were involved.


Now he has a short list of 3 teams supposedly.


Are you still willing to be patient?

FUCK YES. 

By all means, let's trade draft picks for a man on an ending contract. 

DUH. 

PS: He his willing to extend, right.  Well, bully for him.  He's upset with Towns and Wiggins?  By all means, let's bring him on to get pissed off at our young players.  PASS. 
Title: Me
Post by: Kam on September 19, 2018, 01:58:00 PM
An ending contract -- no this is the Melo situation... he can extend and several suitors want him.

I would really think about trading this years #1 for a year of Jimmy Butler if i could get Top 3 protection on the pick.
(or if i could dump salary)

With a healthy motivated Jimmy Butler and his two-way game we should have a decent shot at the 8 seed.


And we would showcase MSG as a destination for a MAX level Free Agent next summer.

KD isn't coming here.

But Irving, Butler, Porzingis is a nice big 3
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on September 19, 2018, 02:45:06 PM
Come here, Jimmy, we want ya!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 19, 2018, 02:56:05 PM
Didn't Butler butt heads with everyone in CHI?
Had trouble taking on a leadership role.
Terrific player, but did his head overinflate?

I'd definitely talk to KZ on his opinion of Butler.

If Butler can you get you Kyrie, well then you do what you gotta do.
I'm not a Kyrie fan, but he is an impressive offensive talent.  And we need a PG.

If suddenly you can start: Kyrie - Tim Jr - Butler - Knox - KZ
well, then you have a genuine team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 19, 2018, 02:58:24 PM
Avery Bradley plus Wes Johnson or Teodosic make a salary match w the Clips, who can add some picks to that package. Avery’s next year is a team option at under 13 million. I hope it goes that way. I don’t think Brooklyn or Miami have anything that good to offer. I’d prefer that we stay out of it at this point.
Title: Re: Me
Post by: carlos123 on September 19, 2018, 03:35:33 PM
Quote from: Kam on September 19, 2018, 01:58:00 PM
An ending contract -- no this is the Melo situation... he can extend and several suitors want him.

I would really think about trading this years #1 for a year of Jimmy Butler if i could get Top 3 protection on the pick.
(or if i could dump salary)

With a healthy motivated Jimmy Butler and his two-way game we should have a decent shot at the 8 seed.


And we would showcase MSG as a destination for a MAX level Free Agent next summer.

KD isn't coming here.

But Irving, Butler, Porzingis is a nice big 3

We’re talking with Laydumb here... How ‘bout Noah for Jimmy AND their No. 1 pick?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on September 19, 2018, 05:12:50 PM
OK Phil and the triangle brain thrust have left the Garden, time to cut ties with the defensive specialists and just plain bad shooters. Franky and Lance starting? Nobody will mix these two with Mike or Kobe.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Hamilton Samuels on September 19, 2018, 05:24:14 PM
Any reason Cuban didn't get suspended?

https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/1358207002 (https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/1358207002)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 19, 2018, 06:02:42 PM
CBSports deal:
Quote
Timberwolves receive: Tim Hardaway Jr., Lance Thomas, New York's 2019 first-round pick

Knicks receive: Jimmy Butler

I'm on board.
Ditch Tim and his contract.
Protect the pick Top 3 or whatever.

Investigate Butler's attitude issues.
Run it by KZ.

Butler- KZ - Knox makes the Knix relevant.
Then search for a starting PG.

The other alternative is make this a complete developmental year and worry about getting a star in FA next Summer.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 19, 2018, 06:50:04 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 19, 2018, 10:07:32 AM

Sigh

More shameless revisionist bullshit. 

Now he "didn't get the opportunity."

He got EVERY OPPORTUNITY. 

Averaged 21.5 minutes in 564 games over ten seasons. 

Everyone on this forum has a functioning memory.  So best of luck in rewriting your well-documented assertions. 



In New York, no - no opportunity for Sebastian.

I dont recall ST having a  questionable attitude - but maybe you can link to some evidence.

I think he had a good enough career.   No shame in being a ten year NBA guy, eh, Shaman?
Title: Re: Jimmy Butler asks for a trade
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 19, 2018, 06:57:19 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 19, 2018, 01:55:12 PM
Quote from: Kam on September 19, 2018, 01:52:51 PM
Yesterday none of you wanted him if picks were involved.


Now he has a short list of 3 teams supposedly.


Are you still willing to be patient?

FUCK YES. 

By all means, let's trade draft picks for a man on an ending contract. 

DUH. 

PS: He his willing to extend, right.  Well, bully for him.  He's upset with Towns and Wiggins?  By all means, let's bring him on to get pissed off at our young players.  PASS.

Sounds like Shaman refuses to trust current management.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 19, 2018, 06:59:26 PM
"Run it by KZ...."

Screw that.  Kristaps and his brother dont run this ship.
Title: Re: Me
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 19, 2018, 07:19:06 PM
Quote from: Kam on September 19, 2018, 01:58:00 PM
An ending contract -- no this is the Melo situation... he can extend and several suitors want him.

I would really think about trading this years #1 for a year of Jimmy Butler if i could get Top 3 protection on the pick.
(or if i could dump salary)

With a healthy motivated Jimmy Butler and his two-way game we should have a decent shot at the 8 seed.


And we would showcase MSG as a destination for a MAX level Free Agent next summer.

KD isn't coming here.

But Irving, Butler, Porzingis is a nice big 3

You are setting yourself up for disappointment.

Getting Butler here now IS the best way to get him for '19-'20 and beyond.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 19, 2018, 07:32:16 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 19, 2018, 06:50:04 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 19, 2018, 10:07:32 AM

Sigh

More shameless revisionist bullshit. 

Now he "didn't get the opportunity."

He got EVERY OPPORTUNITY. 

Averaged 21.5 minutes in 564 games over ten seasons. 

Everyone on this forum has a functioning memory.  So best of luck in rewriting your well-documented assertions. 



In New York, no - no opportunity for Sebastian.

I dont recall ST having a  questionable attitude - but maybe you can link to some evidence.

I think he had a good enough career.   No shame in being a ten year NBA guy, eh, Shaman?

Perhaps getting busted with loaded weapons in his car. 

Which, as I recall, punched his ticket out of Boston. 
Title: Minority Report
Post by: chipstern on September 19, 2018, 08:15:11 PM
Jimmy Butler. 

What is it with Knicks fans?

No functioning retentive memory engrams? 

FIRST ATTRACTIVE SET OF TITS TO AMBLE DOWN THE STREET AND BINGO, YOU RIP OFF THE WEDDING BAND, TOSS YOUR WIFE INTO THE GUTTER, AND SWEAR FEALTY TO THE LATEST BIG NAME SAVIOR. 

I like everything about Butler's body, his body of work. 

He is a fierce competitor, good defender, gets to the line and shoots a high percentage, an authentic inside/outside game, will get you 20-5-4 night in an night out. 

So why am I resistant. 

He just turned 29, and wants a max contract. 

Okay. 

Now Kiid can explain to me why it makes sense and why this is not MELO 2.0

Minny not giving him the max this past summer is what apparently triggered his disdain for the franchise. 

I do not like the idea of cashing in assets, most significantly, #1 picks. 

I do not like the idea of repeating the MELO 2.0 template where we commit the lion's share of our cap space to a contract that carries him well into his mid-30s. 

I do not like the idea of changing horses in mid-stream, and basically contradicting all of the moves we made over the summer to make a mercenary our bell cow. 

Kiid is right about one thing.  A sign-and-trade right now is probably the best chance of getting him to the Knicks. 

Would I trade Hardaway-Noah and a lottery protected #1 for Butler?

Sigh.

Probably.  No...definitely. 

Would Scott Layden accept such an offer. 

I seriously doubt it. 

It would take a significantly more tasty package to gather Jimmy Butler into the fold. 

We have been down this road before. 

We are still recovering from INSTANT GRATIFICATION SYNDROME. 

I am most def prepared to follow the process through, and redefine our culture.  Free agents are not the be all and end all. 

Took Danny Ainge, what, a good four years to double down on free agents.  But first he let Stevens develop his culture, develop his youth, develop a winning template.  THEN AND ONLY THEN, did he go the free agent route. 

I recognize that I am in the minority here. 

So be it. 

I love Jimmy Butler's game and his competitive edge. 

But he WANTS THINGS HIS WAY, not the least of which is 40 Million per when he is 34. 

Let Coach Fizdale develop his own guys.  I do not wish to gift him a coach-breaker who wants things done his way. 

I mean, Butler cannot abide Coach Thibs, who helped make him the player he is, in Chicago. 

Butler cannot abide Towns & Wiggins, two of the more gifted young players, who are still going and growing through their evolution. 

AND THIS IS THE MOTHERFUCKER YOU WANT TO HAND THE KEYS TO THE FRANCHISE WITH ALL OF OUR KIDS? 

No Sale. 

Stay the course.  Get another talent with our #1 pick in 2019, and if a free agent is to be had, terrific.  If not, 2020. 

Meanwhile, let's see what we have, and how Fizdale's developmental chops can nurture what we have and put a positive stamp on the evolution of this franchise. 

No More Wire Hangers. 

Excuse Me.

No more quick fixes and instant fucking gratification. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 19, 2018, 09:24:46 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 19, 2018, 07:32:16 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 19, 2018, 06:50:04 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 19, 2018, 10:07:32 AM

Sigh

More shameless revisionist bullshit. 

Now he "didn't get the opportunity."

He got EVERY OPPORTUNITY. 

Averaged 21.5 minutes in 564 games over ten seasons. 

Everyone on this forum has a functioning memory.  So best of luck in rewriting your well-documented assertions. 



In New York, no - no opportunity for Sebastian.

I dont recall ST having a  questionable attitude - but maybe you can link to some evidence.

I think he had a good enough career.   No shame in being a ten year NBA guy, eh, Shaman?

Perhaps getting busted with loaded weapons in his car. 

Which, as I recall, punched his ticket out of Boston.

You may not have been a player or coach - but when you say "bad attitude" with a player it means ON THE COURT.

No sign ever that Bassie was a bad teammate.
Title: Re: Minority Report
Post by: lesterluv on September 19, 2018, 09:27:19 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 19, 2018, 08:15:11 PM

Now Kiid can explain to me why it makes sense and why this is not MELO 2.0


Well, I'll try, for starters the guy plays some pretty good D; for seconds, the price will be presumably be reasonable — Hardaway say, and a pick with some limited protection, not a christmas-buttload of assets (Mozgov alone ended up returning 2 #1s for the recipient) — not quite mortgaging the future; and for dessert, as Kiid notes, getting him here now is the best way if you want him. Now if you don't want him at all, that's another story....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 19, 2018, 09:36:09 PM
Kiiid never said he favored a Butler trade.

But I am for getting better. 

Thibs isnt selling cheap, having given up Dunn and LaVine plus the pick that became Markaanen - and with a team poised to make a top 4 West run.
Title: Re: Minority Report
Post by: chipstern on September 19, 2018, 09:54:23 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on September 19, 2018, 09:27:19 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 19, 2018, 08:15:11 PM

Now Kiid can explain to me why it makes sense and why this is not MELO 2.0


Well, I'll try, for starters the guy plays some pretty good D; for seconds, the price will be presumably be reasonable — Hardaway say, and a pick with some limited protection, not a christmas-buttload of assets (Mozgov alone ended up returning 2 #1s for the recipient) — not quite mortgaging the future; and for dessert, as Kiid notes, getting him here now is the best way if you want him. Now if you don't want him at all, that's another story....

Hardaway and a protected #1?

You bet.

Why not? 

Toss in Lee. 

Butler becomes our starting SG and fills in at SF behind Knox. 

What's not to like?

Easy.

Thibs.

"Fuck YOU."

Close quotes. 

NO DEAL, compadre...

I'll wait until next summer.  If Jimmy is still out there, we can talk then. 

Gladly. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 19, 2018, 10:01:35 PM
Pay attention

Butler may very well be traded NOW.  These things tend to happen when the player really wants it

AND - the team he goes to can offer 50 mil more than the Knicks, if we do not do a deal now.

So...........

quite unlikely we sign Butler as a FA
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 19, 2018, 10:06:10 PM
Butler to the Clippers

for 

Bradley
Scott
Evans
- picks
Title: So It Goes...
Post by: chipstern on September 19, 2018, 10:12:51 PM
(https://images.gr-assets.com/hostedimages/1420796803ra/13265602.gif)

But If You Try Sometimes...

(http://img.picturequotes.com/2/167/166295/you-cant-always-get-what-you-want-but-if-you-try-sometimes-you-might-find-you-get-what-you-need-quote-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 19, 2018, 10:16:30 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 19, 2018, 10:06:10 PM
Butler to the Clippers

for 

Bradley
Scott
Evans
- picks

Numbers work...

Still, pretty weak offer.

Does not get it done. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 19, 2018, 10:20:48 PM
This is how the NBA differs from MLB

You can increase your odds of getting a free agent under NBA rules.

If you like this player you should be happy if Scott Perry makes his move now.

a)  we will be better

b)  we will stay better, maybe much much better and soon.

If Perry and Mills take a shot and it fails, so be it.

(likely Ntilikina is a good fit for them)

Lee, Dotson, Ntilikina...........

Title: Nyets
Post by: chipstern on September 19, 2018, 10:28:18 PM
Just for giggles. 

Offer them...

D'Angelo Russell

And a choice of either DeMare Carroll or Kenneth Faried...both ending contracts.  Players ready to compete and D up for Thibs. 

A lottery protected #1.  And their #2. 

For the Nyets, an opportunity to go all in.  And possibly get Kyrie. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 19, 2018, 10:32:14 PM
Russell will cost Wolves more than Bradley next year
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 19, 2018, 10:37:58 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 19, 2018, 10:20:48 PM
This is how the NBA differs from MLB

You can increase your odds of getting a free agent under NBA rules.

If you like this player you should be happy if Scott Perry makes his move now.

a)  we will be better

b)  we will stay better, maybe much much better and soon.

If Perry and Mills take a shot and it fails, so be it.

(likely Ntilikina is a good fit for them)

Lee, Dotson, Ntilikina...........

Straight up?

No #1?

Numbers work. 

HATE TO GIVE UP ON FRANK, but got to give to get, and he could be an ideal long term piece for Thibs, who loves him some D. 

Pieces that would contribute right away.  And long term. 

Hard to see Thibs doing it without a #1. 

Hard to see Perry giving them FRANK & A #1. 

Hard to see Perry giving them Frank.  PERIOD. 

But straight up, your fantasy?  Sure thing. 

Only thing, this presupposed Knox at PF and Butler at SF and Timmy at SG. 

I believe the Knicks project Knox as a SF.  PF?  Further down the road.  Not strong enough yet. 

And KP as a PF.  Center further down the road.  Not strong enough yet.  Plus there is this Kanter fellow. 

Still...

Kanter-Knox-Butler-Hardaway-Burke nice resonance. 

With KP and [?] Irving in 2019?

A reasonable fantasy save for how Minny will never do it without our #1. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 19, 2018, 10:40:33 PM
"Numbers work"

You keep saying that

Usually check beforehand - that's the process.

Yeah, picks are always part of a deal for a star.  Thats what the ...... is
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on September 20, 2018, 01:16:54 AM
butler is close to being on the wrong side of 30.

5 years?  what will a 34 year old butler look like?

pass on a deal.

free agent is one thing.  trade?  no .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 20, 2018, 02:20:04 AM
I remember seeing Jimmy Butler in his rook year come in early 4Q in some random game.  And thinking Whoa, look at that guy.  Physical, tough, played hard, good athleticism.  Didn't do anything outstanding, but sure looked the part of a good NBA player.  I tucked the thought away, considering that maybe he played sparingly because he was an athlete without much feel for the game.

2nd year broke through.
3rd year some struggles as a high minute starter.
4th year = stud.

It certainly would have been a no-brainer to trade for Butler 2 years ago.  Now, you'll get him from 29-34 at big money.
And likely Knix not ready to compete his first two, key prime years.
So the timing isn't exactly perfect.
And his attitude is an issue these days as well.

But the mofo can play.
Probably a Top 5, certainly Top 10, two-way player.

I'd talk to KZ, because if you bring in Butler, it becomes Butler's team, especially since KZ will miss half the year.  And you've got a 1st year coach, and lots of impressionable yute, and you don't want power struggles and conflict.  Especially because you need Butler to re-sign.  You bring Butler in and he wields the power.  Is it possible to do an extend-and-trade?  Or is that no longer an option, or won't give Butler a big enough cash in?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 20, 2018, 02:29:07 AM
Avery Bradley will remain better than D’’Angelo Russell for the rest of his career.

Butler to the Clips seems most likely. The Nets don’t have the assets to outbid them
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 20, 2018, 04:08:42 AM
CBSports has the Knix starting 5 ranked as the worst in the Association:
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/ranking-every-nba-starting-lineup-for-opening-night-warriors-lead-way-how-do-lebron-james-lakers-stack-up/

Of course, Knox may start.  Or even Mario.
With Fizz on record not fond of starting two SG's on the wing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 20, 2018, 07:53:52 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 20, 2018, 04:08:42 AM
CBSports has the Knix starting 5 ranked as the worst in the Association:
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/ranking-every-nba-starting-lineup-for-opening-night-warriors-lead-way-how-do-lebron-james-lakers-stack-up/

Of course, Knox may start.  Or even Mario.
With Fizz on record not fond of starting two SG's on the wing.

Funny. 

Slotting in Lee & Thomas as starting front line. 

As you point out, goes against everything Fizdale has been espousing. 

Still, would expect Lance so see serious minutes off the bench at both SF and PF. 

Question...what role does Lee play if he remains a Knick? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 20, 2018, 08:10:32 AM
Lance has to play well to see time.

Is hard nosed defending enough to get him 20-25 minutes a night?

It would be different if he was a LOCKDOWN guy.

I see the Knicks better with Lance bolted to the pine.  JUICE it up.  Give me 5 guys who can score.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 20, 2018, 11:11:31 AM
I see Lance as more of a 10-15 min guy.
Maybe more some nights when Knox or Mario aren't right.
I don't see him as guy we are relying on.
Except to steady the bench and give effort and take a 3 now and then when open.

I'd be calling rook GM Elton Brand and inquiring about Fultz.
Too bad we don't have a decent vet PG to offer.

Emeka Oka4 dropped by NOPe.
Not surprising.
Gave them solid limited minute effort last year.
Title: Heh
Post by: chipstern on September 20, 2018, 02:05:27 PM
New coach David Fizdale seemed on board with not making any big splash before free agency. “We want to build it from the ground up culturally, through the draft, like Steve is talking about. We don’t want to jump at the shiny things,” Fizdale said. “We want to make solid decisions and be patient with this process. I’m a big part of that process. If I get rattled or start trying to nudge these guys, I’m too big a chunk to be disrupting this process. I’m locked into developing these kids and pouring in everything that I have into that right now.”
Title: Re: Minority Report
Post by: Kam on September 20, 2018, 02:37:52 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 19, 2018, 08:15:11 PM
Jimmy Butler. 

What is it with Knicks fans?


FIRST ATTRACTIVE SET OF TITS TO AMBLE DOWN THE STREET AND BINGO, YOU RIP OFF THE WEDDING BAND, TOSS YOUR WIFE INTO THE GUTTER, AND SWEAR FEALTY TO THE LATEST BIG NAME SAVIOR. 


I do this trade with the insight that Butler and Irving are angling to play together in 19-20.

Not just Tits. 
Title: Re: Nyets
Post by: Kam on September 20, 2018, 02:43:03 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 19, 2018, 10:28:18 PM
Just for giggles. 

Offer them...

D'Angelo Russell

And a choice of either DeMare Carroll or Kenneth Faried...both ending contracts.  Players ready to compete and D up for Thibs. 

A lottery protected #1.  And their #2. 

For the Nyets, an opportunity to go all in.  And possibly get Kyrie.

If he goes to the Nets Irving will follow.

That's why this is important to get done if you don't want a repeat of the early 2000s nets teams.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 20, 2018, 02:47:20 PM
Quote from: Nagel on September 20, 2018, 01:16:54 AM
butler is close to being on the wrong side of 30.

5 years?  what will a 34 year old butler look like?

pass on a deal.

free agent is one thing.  trade?  no .

What if...

Butler assures you Irving.

Still no?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 20, 2018, 02:55:17 PM
Quote from: Kam on September 20, 2018, 02:47:20 PM
Quote from: Nagel on September 20, 2018, 01:16:54 AM
butler is close to being on the wrong side of 30.

5 years?  what will a 34 year old butler look like?

pass on a deal.

free agent is one thing.  trade?  no .

What if...

Butler assures you Irving.

Still no?

"Nothing is written..."
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 20, 2018, 02:57:12 PM
The worry of not dealing for Butler and thus luring Irving is that even with room for 2 contracts there is no guarantee stars will come.

But you cant play the game (business of the NBA) scraed.  If it is DURANT you covet,then DURANT is who you go after

I think in Fizdale's vocabulary, "be patient, dont chase the shiny things" = "lets wait for the BIGGER prize".
Title: Nothing Is Written
Post by: chipstern on September 20, 2018, 03:12:59 PM
Yes, the bold moves. 

The bold moves that define a franchise. 

Eddy Curry

Stephon Marbury

Carmelo Anthony

BE Scared.  BE VERY SCARED.

Maybe we should try another approach, capiche? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 20, 2018, 03:19:41 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 20, 2018, 02:57:12 PM
The worry of not dealing for Butler and thus luring Irving is that even with room for 2 contracts there is no guarantee stars will come.

But you cant play the game (business of the NBA) scraed.  If it is DURANT you covet,then DURANT is who you go after

I think in Fizdale's vocabulary, "be patient, dont chase the shiny things" = "lets wait for the BIGGER prize".

Durant only wants things easy.  Why would he ever come to NYC?  He is too thin-skinned.
Title: Re: Nothing Is Written
Post by: Kam on September 20, 2018, 03:23:04 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 20, 2018, 03:12:59 PM
Yes, the bold moves. 

The bold moves that define a franchise. 

Eddy Curry

Stephon Marbury

Carmelo Anthony

BE Scared.  BE VERY SCARED.

Maybe we should try another approach, capiche?

Apples, Oranges, and Watermelons.

Think about the human being that Jimmy Butler is. 

Went from homeless to the NBA.

Think about the human beings that Curry (irresponsible with weight) Marbury (eats vaseline live) were.

Carmelo was a lot better investment than either of those guys were.
Title: Re: Nothing Is Written
Post by: chipstern on September 20, 2018, 03:24:32 PM
Quote from: Kam on September 20, 2018, 03:23:04 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 20, 2018, 03:12:59 PM
Yes, the bold moves. 

The bold moves that define a franchise. 

Eddy Curry

Stephon Marbury

Carmelo Anthony

BE Scared.  BE VERY SCARED.

Maybe we should try another approach, capiche?

Apples, Oranges, and Watermelons.

Think about the human being that Jimmy Butler is. 

Went from homeless to the NBA.

Think about the human beings that Curry (irresponsible with weight) Marbury (eats vaseline live) were.

Carmelo was a lot better investment than either of those guys were.

Watermelons

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/71699d5035aaae27c076cfd78064ff34/tenor.gif?itemid=5571366)

Pass
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 20, 2018, 03:29:16 PM
If you invest in people you don't pass on Jimmy Butler.

You want his blueprint on your team.

Whats going down in Minny says more about Andrew Wiggins than Jimmy Butler.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 20, 2018, 03:41:59 PM
Carmelo was a better investment. 

[COUGH]

Yes.  The benefits continue to accrue. 

Lordy. 

Knicks fans want the big tits and the quick fixes. 

Danny Ainge & Brad Stevens

25-57

40-42

48-34

53-29

55-27

Draft and trades. 

Patient.  Calculated.  PATIENT.  Built A System.  Built A Culture. 

First big free agent signing?

Season Four. 

4

Al Horford.  Right player.  Right time.  Right fit. 

Season Five.  Gordon Hayward.  Kyrie Irving Trade. 

Again.  Jimmy Butler.  Wonderful PLAYER. 

Again.  Jimmy Butler.  MOOT POINT.  Thibs ain't entertaining any of the bullshit "fans" and "media" are floating. 

Again.  Jimmy Butler.  FIRST YOU ESTABLISH A CULTURE.  A WINNING CULTURE.  A SUSTAINABLE CULTURE.  Then you plug in talent via the free agent market. 

The Carmelo Anthony Trade set back this franchise a decade. 

A great scorer.  Without a doubt. 

But the money we spent, and the draft picks we surrendered, left us with no room for prime free agents, nor for an infusion of youth, nor for complementary pieces, such as, oh,  A POINT GUARD. 

And of course, as a preamble to the Carmelo, we must get Carmelo feeding frenzy, because CARMELO WANTED A MAX, and we were unwilling to risk free agency or him ending up with the Nyets (gee, that argument has a familiar ring), we gutted our roster, having already gutted our roster in a pyrrhic pursuit of LeBron, thanks to kindly Uncle Donnie, pausing only to pass on all of the available point guards only to draft Jordan Hill (CUE Kiid, Stage Left, with passionate defense of an underrated player, no longer in the league). 

So.

In answer to your query, Brother Kam.

If Butler is available next summer?  You bet.  Let's talk. 

But a panic move now, passing as a foundational move, when we have seen this approach blow up in our fucking faces time and time and time again? 

NO
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 20, 2018, 03:48:22 PM
It's SO not a panic move.  It's a calculated move over two seasons.

EXACTLY - by the way- what the young Lakers team did.

They got LeBron this year so they can add a guy next year. Target: KL.

Think that will work out? Good investment, no?
Title: Big Trades
Post by: chipstern on September 20, 2018, 03:49:15 PM
Walt Bellamy & Howie Komives

We gave up a Hall Of Fame Center and our starting point guard. 

Serious assets. 

HOWEVER...

We had established a positive culture. 

Trading Walt opened up the 5-spot for Willis. 

Trading Komives opened up the point for Clyde. 

Dave DeB moved in to the 4-spot, in an established system, where a chemistry had been established, young talent nurtured and evolved. 

Results?

Two championships. 

GROW UP KNICKS FANS. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 20, 2018, 03:51:02 PM
Quote from: Kam on September 20, 2018, 03:48:22 PM
It's SO not a panic move.  It's a calculated move over two seasons.

EXACTLY - by the way- what the young Lakers team did.

They got LeBron this year so they can add a guy next year. Target: KL.

Think that will work out? Good investment, no?

Knock yourself out, dude. 

(https://media.giphy.com/media/11xl9RRxvAtrCE/giphy.gif)

PS: What assets did the Lakers give up to grab LeBron?  ANSWER: None, oh, save for some players they didn't reup to create cap space, such as Randle.  Did they gut their team to trade for LeBron, OR DID THEY FUCKING WAIT UNTIL HE WAS FUCKING AVAILABLE WITHOUT SURRENDERING ANY ASSETS.  Kiid is comfortable giving up Frank in a trade.  If I ask the same of Lonzo Ball, Kiid will caution me that they are levels apart.  Okay.  Still, be that as it may, hierarchies being what they are, Lonzo is a foundational piece.  We will find out soon if Frank is a foundational piece.  BOTTOM LINE.  Your LeBron argument?  THE LAKERS DID NOT SURRENDER ASSETS, nurtured their youth, were committed to growing pains and losing thereof, and opened up cap space.  Again, I am all in for considering Butler next summer.  Much as we should've done with Melo.  So your argument turns back on itself. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on September 20, 2018, 06:58:42 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 20, 2018, 02:55:17 PM
Quote from: Kam on September 20, 2018, 02:47:20 PM
Quote from: Nagel on September 20, 2018, 01:16:54 AM
butler is close to being on the wrong side of 30.

5 years?  what will a 34 year old butler look like?

pass on a deal.

free agent is one thing.  trade?  no .

What if...

Butler assures you Irving.

Still no?

"Nothing is written..."

i get your point KAM.  only problem is how do you know if one leads to another?  you can't.

I'll take my chances on another lottery pick and see who wants to join the party next year.

until KP is here and fully healthy we are sort of shooting in the dark IMO>
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 20, 2018, 07:52:33 PM
Quote from: Nagel on September 20, 2018, 06:58:42 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 20, 2018, 02:55:17 PM
Quote from: Kam on September 20, 2018, 02:47:20 PM
Quote from: Nagel on September 20, 2018, 01:16:54 AM
butler is close to being on the wrong side of 30.

5 years?  what will a 34 year old butler look like?

pass on a deal.

free agent is one thing.  trade?  no .

What if...

Butler assures you Irving.

Still no?

"Nothing is written..."

i get your point KAM.  only problem is how do you know if one leads to another?  you can't.

I'll take my chances on another lottery pick and see who wants to join the party next year.

until KP is here and fully healthy we are sort of shooting in the dark IMO>

Nagel cautioning forbearance. 

Film at 11. 

And I know Kiid will go into MOCK OVERDRIVE, but guess what.  This is Kristaps Porzingis' Team. 

Phil Jackson?

GONE.

Carmelo Anthony?

GONE.

Jeff Hornacek?

GONE. 

Frank Ntilikina?  Kevin Knox? 

On Board. 

Again, no one is turning their noses up at Jimmy Butler. 

But this is Kristaps Porzingis team.  He is our bell cow.  When he and Hardaway were grooving last fall, we were in the running for the playoffs.  When they were out, lottery here we come. 

Regarding free agents? 

How many times in the past twenty years have we been left at the altar by free agents, or had our free agent saviors blow up in our face. 

We gutted our team to make a run at LeBron.  We gutted our team to accommodate Carmelo. 

We are now at ground zero with an ACTUAL REBUILD & COMMITTMENT TO YOUTH. 

You have to go back to the 1960s to see the Knicks bottoming out, and rebuilding with YOUTH, in the person of Bill Bradley, Cazzie Russell, Phil Jackson, Willis Reed, Walt Frazier, Dave Stallworth, Mike Riordan. 

Whether you think KP is the second coming or a REACH--a projection of our hopes and prayers--he remains the most impactful player on this roster. 

It is in the Knicks best interest to build a roster about him, and let the youth, from elders Kanter and Hardaway, to wash out reclamation projects Burke, Mudiay, Vonleh and Hezonja, to have the opportunity to compete and make a case for themselves as KNICKS. 

It is not tanking, but not unlike the Celtics in the Stevens Era, or the Lakers under Walton, there is a willingness to TAKE YOUR LUMPS, and let your young talent play through the slaps and beat downs, learning and earning through taking their lumps...purposeful...patient...

I do not necessarily agree with Nages that we are a high lottery lock, but you never know. 

http://www.nbadraft.net/2019mock_draft (http://www.nbadraft.net/2019mock_draft)

Zion Williamson intrigues me.  A freak of nature.  Could be the second coming of Larry Johnson. 

Be that as it may, there is talent out there.  There is talent coming to training camp, and it makes more sense--TO ME ANYWAY--to allow the process to play out, for hard-nosed competition to ensue, and for the kids we have on site to feel as if they are actually competing for something, not merely as placeholders for the next big-titted free agent to excite our more impatient fans. 

Credit Fizz with being a bullshit artist if you like, but the idea that he put forth, wherein free agency doesn't mean a damn thing, unless we FUNDAMENTALLY CHANGE OUR CULTURE. 

Why gut our team now to import Jimmy Butler to A LOSING TEAM.  He's on a team with the likes of TOWNS & WIGGINS, to former #1 picks, big time talents, and he was not pleased in playing WITH THEM?  Hello?  WAKE UP CALL. 

Now, just for the sake of argument.  If come the summer of 2019, KP is healthy and ready to come back strong, we have a #1 pick (possibly a significant player), and some combination of Knox, Robinson, Ntilikina, Hezonja, Vonleh, Mudiay, Burke, Kanter and Hardaway have made a case for themselves, and learned how to play OLD SCHOOL KNICK DEFENSE and learned to play an aggressive brand of offense, then we will have a much better idea of who is a keeper. 

What's more, a potential free agent such as Butler (I honestly do not see Irving leaving the Celtics) could look at a team like the Knicks and think, "Hey, the skill-set and aggression and defensive intensity and experience and competitive tenacity I bring to the party would make for a great fit...I LIKE WHAT I SEE IN THEIR KIDS."

Well, that is a horse of a different fire department.  A BELL COW who can give us big minutes at SF-SG, and A LEADER on the Knicks, and not necessarily THE LEADER.  A piece that fits.  A player who could make the likes of KP and Knox better, and vicea versa.  That makes sense. 

Looking at the free agent class for 2019, Butler, Irving and Leonard would top my wish list. 

Not sure how realistic any of them are. 

Kevin Durant.

HAHAHA

Tell me about the rabbits, George. 

Be patient Knicks fans.  This is what an actual re-build looks like. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 20, 2018, 09:16:38 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 20, 2018, 03:51:02 PM
Quote from: Kam on September 20, 2018, 03:48:22 PM
It's SO not a panic move.  It's a calculated move over two seasons.

EXACTLY - by the way- what the young Lakers team did.

They got LeBron this year so they can add a guy next year. Target: KL.

Think that will work out? Good investment, no?

Knock yourself out, dude. 

BOTTOM LINE.  Your LeBron argument?  THE LAKERS DID NOT SURRENDER ASSETS, nurtured their youth, were committed to growing pains and losing thereof, and opened up cap space.  Again, I am all in for considering Butler next summer.  Much as we should've done with Melo.  So your argument turns back on itself.

Randle  - 72 in the Top 100
Nance Jr
Clarkson

Those guys are assets
Title: NO SALE
Post by: chipstern on September 20, 2018, 09:31:31 PM
Quote from: Kam on September 20, 2018, 09:16:38 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 20, 2018, 03:51:02 PM
Quote from: Kam on September 20, 2018, 03:48:22 PM
It's SO not a panic move.  It's a calculated move over two seasons.

EXACTLY - by the way- what the young Lakers team did.

They got LeBron this year so they can add a guy next year. Target: KL.

Think that will work out? Good investment, no?

Knock yourself out, dude. 

BOTTOM LINE.  Your LeBron argument?  THE LAKERS DID NOT SURRENDER ASSETS, nurtured their youth, were committed to growing pains and losing thereof, and opened up cap space.  Again, I am all in for considering Butler next summer.  Much as we should've done with Melo.  So your argument turns back on itself.

Randle  - 72 in the Top 100
Nance Jr
Clarkson

Those guys are assets

EARTH TO KAM...

Randle they let walk.  Nance on a rookie deal, but Clarkson was a long term contract, with 12 million-13 million due for next two seasons.

With Ingram and Kuzma, Ball and Hart, Nance and Clarkson and Randle were utterly redundant. 

They received two expiring contracts in Channing Frye and Isaiah Thomas.  THEY LET BOTH WALK. 

They did not give up a #1 pick, they received a #1 pick, which they used to take Wagner.

Ergo, you're spinning your wheels, dude. 

Assets? 

Uh huh. 

Road Kill is more like it. 

THEY GOT LEBRON WITHOUT GIVING UP ANYTHING. 

Let alone a #1 Pick.  Let alone Frank Ntiliknia, Lonzo Ball.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 20, 2018, 09:41:29 PM
heh

Anyone else tired of Shaman and his Celtics fixation?

They did it that way so we have to

Did what?  Exactly - aint won shit.  And about to lose their lead guard after passing on a generational one in the draft

heh, indeed.

But keep shittin green, Shaman.
Title: Comic Relief
Post by: chipstern on September 20, 2018, 10:31:49 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 20, 2018, 09:41:29 PM
heh

Anyone else tired of Shaman and his Celtics fixation?

They did it that way so we have to

Did what?  Exactly - aint won shit.  And about to lose their lead guard after passing on a generational one in the draft

heh, indeed.

But keep shittin green, Shaman.

Shitting Laker Purple, ain't you Urkel?

(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-_BS7A65W2zQ/WAyGMn6Zk2I/AAAAAAAAFJg/pe08nljYStwtkx5h-eGU0gNDmiF0KMEyQCLcB/s1600/rosemary.gif) 

Oh, the horror.  To be castigated by the Prophet Kiid.

As I understand your reasoned argument, the Celtics took that overrated Tatum and a #1 draft pick, instead of simply choosing the generational Lonzo Ball--spiritual successor to Sebastin Telfair and Jimmer Fredette, in your smug estimation.

And after a season of pissing on Jayson, when the evidence of his talent and maturity was overwhelming, you tried to claim you'd not been dumping on him. 

I'll leave it to Bankshot to bear witness to your Toadstill Dick on that one. 

And Boston ain't won shit. 

So, if you don't win the championship, you ain't shit?

Point taken. 

Finally, you assume, based on ZERO EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE, that Kyrie Irving is leaving the Celtics. 

(https://i.gifer.com/SEPo.gif)

Verily, you are the King Of Comedy. 

What is the sound of one hand clapping? 

(https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/013/974/clap.gif)
Title: Reality Check
Post by: chipstern on September 21, 2018, 04:43:20 AM
But multiple league sources told SNY.tv that Tom Thibodeau, Minnesota’s President and head coach, will want more than the Knicks can realistically offer. “Not enough for Minny,” one NBA executive said. “Tibs wants to win now.”  –  via SportsNet New York

“I think Jimmy does not see a future in Minny and is not real excited to finish his career playing alongside KAT and Wiggins,” the NBA executive said. “It’s all about Jimmy,” the executive added. “He is looking to get paid and to be the man.”  –  via SportsNet New York

Darren Wolfson: One Eastern Conference FO exec. today via text: “We watch with great interest but ultimately it comes down to not effing up the future – at what cost is it worth it?” #Twolves –  via Twitter DWolfsonKSTP
Title: Re: Comic Relief
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 21, 2018, 08:55:21 AM
Quote from: chipstern on September 20, 2018, 10:31:49 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 20, 2018, 09:41:29 PM
heh

Anyone else tired of Shaman and his Celtics fixation?

They did it that way so we have to

Did what?  Exactly - aint won shit.  And about to lose their lead guard after passing on a generational one in the draft

heh, indeed.

But keep shittin green, Shaman.

Shitting Laker Purple, ain't you Urkel?


I understand why LeBron is there but preferred they rocked without him.  Will certainly watch the Lakers plenty this year.

I havent applauded nor have I criticized their process. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 21, 2018, 09:00:18 AM
By tghe way - interesting thought brought up today pertaining to Chip's Celtics - on the best show in sports radio (Sirrius NBA with Isola and Scalabrine)

Would Boston cash in some youth to get Butler - as a means to having Irving stay in town?

The idea was eventually shot down......but food for thought since it would be alomng the lines of what Thibs seeks (start with Rozier, for instance, since Brown is likely a non-starter to the conversation)

Could the money even match (19 mil from Celts to Wolves)?  Don't know.  Some of these teams dont have the mid salaried players that work good as filler.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 21, 2018, 09:09:47 AM
By the way, re:  Kam's point on Randle, Clarkson and Nance - Lakers certainly hated giving up all three.  Have to give them some credit - it was "LBJ all the way" - and "how do we get there, however painful?"

In time - if Lakers do not win - from that perspective only (we know the business end will be properous with LeBron there) - you will have to ask the question - may we have been better off not jettisoning all three of those guys?

All three by the way (Randle, Nanc and Clarkson) are examples of how misguided fans of the league errantly demean players because their team is not winning.  Consistently winning in the league is about chemistry, coaching and getting that last leg over the hump - not just assembling talent.  A guy like Hardaway could seem like a real prize to a 50+ win Knicks team down the line - even playing in last year's state.  Look at Sprewell - looked real good on some of the better teams he played on - then was considered an OAF when Knicks werent winning.  (Insert Melo and even Marbury here if you wish).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 21, 2018, 09:11:58 AM
Qucik, surprising quiz

3 of the NBA's top 5 salaried teams reside in the EASTERN conference - and 5 out of 9

Can you name (no peeking) the first three - and the next 2?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 21, 2018, 09:39:19 AM
Morris, Baynes, Gabuscele, Rozier............

for Butler

comes close
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 21, 2018, 10:09:10 AM
MIA & TOR most likely.
MIA still toting Bosh's contract I believe.
TOR has Kawhi, Lowry, Ibaka & Valanciunas all making a lot.
And they gave NormPowell a significant contract, and he's underachieve lately.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 21, 2018, 10:11:13 AM
Per  HoopsHype

One eastern conference front office guy, on potential Butler acquisition:

"We watch with great interest but ultimately it comes down to not effing up the future - at what cost is it worth it?"

Hmmmm....

Knicks quote?  Not wanting to deal Frank and a #1?

Could be.

But that would run counter to the opinion of one analyst that "Knicks just don't  have enough to offer"
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 21, 2018, 10:13:20 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 21, 2018, 09:39:19 AM
Morris, Baynes, Gabuscele, Rozier............

for Butler

comes close

I'm assuming the salaries match, but I'm not looking it up as the trade is so dumb and ill-conceived conceptually it would never be seriously proposed.

Here's a hint the first part of that trade on the Celts side is the demand for Jaylen Brown. And then comes the salary matches and draft choices that Thibs would demand.

Here's the second hint, Browns not going anywhere, particularly for a guy who's 8 year older and makes several multiples of what Brown makes,  who the Celts have no need for.

Brown will likely be a player comparable to Butler in the near future, at a fraction of the cost.

Hard pass on Butler.

If the Knicks want the guy, can't see Ainge getting in the way.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 21, 2018, 10:17:59 AM
WAS has their Big 3 all maxed out.  And Mahinmi making double what he's worth.  not sure if they have other big/bad contracts, but a very top heavy payroll.

GS, OKC & HOU are the West big spenders.

I know that DET has a much higher payroll than their record warrants.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 21, 2018, 10:20:49 AM
WAS is at #5 and DET at #9.  Nicely done.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 21, 2018, 10:22:36 AM
Just hit up Hoopshype.
#9 payroll = DET
#10 = MEMf
Chandler Parsons pocketing $25M -- how'd that happen?

Forgot MIA has Tyler Johnson on that ridiculous backloaded deal.
James Johnson makes $14M.  Nice hustle guy, but that's an overpay for sure.  Forgot about Waiters too.

They signed Josh Rich for 4/$40M which seems like a bargain, especially if he keeps progressing.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 21, 2018, 10:24:22 AM
I've been using hoopshype a good dela this Summer for whatever reason.
So I often see their Top 10 salary list.
MIA at #1 is a head scratcher.
But knock off Bosh and they'd just be around 10th.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on September 21, 2018, 11:14:01 AM
I still believe the Melo deal was the right move at the time; Mozgov's yield to a desperate David Griffin later is a valid point but I think the Knicks, with Amare in hand and the likelihood that Melo would have gone to Brooklyn meant that the alternative - proceeding with Amare plus the youth we traded - made much less sense. I've heard the arguments, I suppose you've heard mine.

I see this situation differently. Butler is older than Melo was, and the core is younger. There is no win-now imperative that an Amare-type player might compel. The upcoming free agency the next two years is more favourable to NY than what Donnie faced. The draft, which meant little to the Knicks the year Amare had them flirting with the playoffs pre-Melo, means so much this year.

I think this Knicks team has the chance to do something special - 25 wins. If Kanter or Hardaway miss time before Christmas, then Porzingis' arrival may well be delayed until after the ASB. Then we might be in the mix for something even more special - under 20 wins. Add any of RJ (be still my heart), Little, Zion, Reddish or even Langford to the core of KP/Knox/Frank/TimJr, and our core becomes legitimately exciting. Plus we'd have one max spot this summer or two the following summer.

The big play I'd look isn't cashing chips in for Butler but rather trying to move Courtney Lee to Philly for Jerryd Bayless (expiring) and TimJr to Sacto for expirings (they have loads of flexibility) or to Dallas for Wessy Wes (expiring); I'd be willing to sacrifice either Burke or Mudiay to do it, but not picks. Those two moves would give us enough cap space for two max spots and still be in a position to resign either Hezonja or potentially even Kanter (as well as possibly Vonleh or Burke or Mudiay). We'd be one of the three worst teams in the league, yes, but with the payoff of lots of time for the kids and the belief that the rebuild would be expedited this summer, once we add a top-5 or so pick and, potentially, two stars. If the Fizdale aura is real, I could see Kyrie/Butler being in play. Hell, if we get Barrett or Little, I could see Kyrie/Durant being in play. We wouldn't be a team that looked like it was going to lose forever.

And, again, if they didn't come, we'd still be in great spot. I don't see a compelling enough reason to bring in Butler now.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 21, 2018, 11:24:07 AM
I dont fault the Knicks on Melo.  Walking away would have taken real balls.  Took too long to deal him - you could quibble.

Melo doesnt know how to lead in a losing atmosphere? (or at all, depending on who you ask)

Of course never thought we'd have to find this out.

News flash - this isnt uncommon.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 21, 2018, 11:26:43 AM
Do you think Jimmy Butler gives up 50 mil so he can play in NY with Kyrie (rather than staying in Clipperland with Kawhi)?

Strike now or no Butler, smart money says.

(not saying we should/shouldnt do it - leaving that to the execs)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 21, 2018, 11:57:35 AM
"And again if they (BUT and KI) didnt come, we'd still be in a great spot."

Here is the rub......

Knicks will chase Durant.

All the while KI (if he hasnt already reupped with BOS) and Jimmy (if he isnt already in Clipperland with a new 5 year 191) are what - just waiting for us?

Likely not.

Decision on Butler is now, no matter how you slice it.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 21, 2018, 12:30:47 PM
Re:  "still in a great spot"

I do sort of agree.  There are just levels

I see THJ having a pretty big year - and forming a nice returning dependable troika with KP and KK (center and PGs be damned!)

Other free agents, beyond the 3 mentioned (and Kanter)?  I guess that is the next thing to discuss.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 21, 2018, 02:00:10 PM
But.............sorry, cant let this go...

You are TURNING DOWN

(Free agent PG, Kyrie or other)
Hardaway
Butler
Knox
Porzingis

Really?





No.....

really?
Title: No...REALLY
Post by: chipstern on September 21, 2018, 02:32:55 PM
Really. 

There is NO...Zero...NO Guarantee that Irving is coming.  With or without Butler. 

Butler just hung his team out to dry. 

And that should motivate us to move heaven and Earth in to make him THE MAN on the Knicks, and that makes us a lock to get Kyrie? 

Evidence? 

Once again...

Thibs wants to win now...that is his mandate. 

That is his life/death sentence. 

His owner is beginning to get freaked.  Thibs does not have a great bedside manner. 

And the trade they made for Butler has blown up in their face. 

They basically gifted the Bulls three young starters for an uber-talented two way player, who, alas, has marked himself as a self-absorbed malcontent. 

PG: Kris Dunn
SG: Zach LaVine
PF: Lauri Markkanen

And the money they saved on Butler, they were able to spend on Jabari Parker, their new starting SF. 

And they just drafted Wendell Carter as their center of the future. 

That's five #1 picks, basically.  Three of which came the Bulls way for Butler. 

The Bulls have committed to moving on from their bell cow in favor of youth, and they are looking pretty damn good going into 2018-2019.  They have a youthful core, and a potential superstar in Markkanen.  And while Parker cannot be mentioned in the same breath as Butler, defensive-wise, he has the potential to be an offensive force.  Also, come next spring, Jabari will be 24.  Butler will be 30. 

So, we should put together an analogous package to give Mr. Butler a max deal, make him the bell cow, and leverage him to impact our chemistry, potentially blowing off our coach and dictating the future direction of this franchise. 

Really?

NO.

There is no guarantee that Butler's presence would presuppose Irving leaving the Celtics.

Nor is there any hard and fast evidence, that the lack of Butler's presence would presuppose losing Irving if he really wants to come to NYC. 

Butler is a mirage. 

Been down this road before, and what you and I think is essentially moot, because the Knicks AIN'T DOING IT. 

We have Knox and Hezonja (and Thomas) at SF-PF, we have Hardaway and Nitilkina (and for the moment, Lee and Dotson) at SG-SF. 

And like it or not, Porzingis is our bell cow.  I know you agree with Phil Jackson that we should trade him. 

Mazel Tov. 

The Knicks appear fine with their rebuild as presently constituted moving forward, the allure of this shining object and the drumbeat of fans and media notwithstanding.  I am sure they have done their due diligence, and I am just as sure Thibs has blown them off, or asked for the moon. 

While I do not necessarily share Biz's projections of us as a 20-win team, I do believe, a #1 in the summer of 2019, and room for one max contract looks fine, going forward. 

And Jimmy has said he wants to be traded before media day? 

Yup, just the kind of presence we want to define OUR FRANCHISE. 

"To dream, the impossible dream..." 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 21, 2018, 07:32:49 PM
EM lookin good

https://twitter.com/NewEraKnicks/status/1043279869931606016 (https://twitter.com/NewEraKnicks/status/1043279869931606016)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 21, 2018, 11:58:57 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 21, 2018, 07:32:49 PM
EM lookin good

https://twitter.com/NewEraKnicks/status/1043279869931606016 (https://twitter.com/NewEraKnicks/status/1043279869931606016)

If you ranked the EM fans on this board i'd be in last place but that video looked good, i saw a slowed-down, in control, confident Mudiay.

It may not be a sure sign of a good thing, but its not a bad thing either.

The more of these "wild card" reclamation projects we reclaim the better.  Gives us options.  Never a bad thing.  Rooting for EM.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 22, 2018, 12:07:55 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 21, 2018, 07:32:49 PM
EM lookin good

https://twitter.com/NewEraKnicks/status/1043279869931606016 (https://twitter.com/NewEraKnicks/status/1043279869931606016)

Watched it a couple times. It seems like videos from 2 different 3 on 3 scrimmages.  I can make out EM playing with Kanter and Ntilikina.  (Hope there were some passes from EM to Frank but i saw none) but i couldn't make out clearly who the opponents were.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 22, 2018, 12:24:36 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on September 21, 2018, 11:14:01 AM
I still believe the Melo deal was the right move at the time; Mozgov's yield to a desperate David Griffin later is a valid point but I think the Knicks, with Amare in hand and the likelihood that Melo would have gone to Brooklyn meant that the alternative - proceeding with Amare plus the youth we traded - made much less sense. I've heard the arguments, I suppose you've heard mine.

I see this situation differently. Butler is older than Melo was, and the core is younger. There is no win-now imperative that an Amare-type player might compel. The upcoming free agency the next two years is more favourable to NY than what Donnie faced. The draft, which meant little to the Knicks the year Amare had them flirting with the playoffs pre-Melo, means so much this year.

I think this Knicks team has the chance to do something special - 25 wins. If Kanter or Hardaway miss time before Christmas, then Porzingis' arrival may well be delayed until after the ASB. Then we might be in the mix for something even more special - under 20 wins. Add any of RJ (be still my heart), Little, Zion, Reddish or even Langford to the core of KP/Knox/Frank/TimJr, and our core becomes legitimately exciting. Plus we'd have one max spot this summer or two the following summer.

The big play I'd look isn't cashing chips in for Butler but rather trying to move Courtney Lee to Philly for Jerryd Bayless (expiring) and TimJr to Sacto for expirings (they have loads of flexibility) or to Dallas for Wessy Wes (expiring); I'd be willing to sacrifice either Burke or Mudiay to do it, but not picks. Those two moves would give us enough cap space for two max spots and still be in a position to resign either Hezonja or potentially even Kanter (as well as possibly Vonleh or Burke or Mudiay). We'd be one of the three worst teams in the league, yes, but with the payoff of lots of time for the kids and the belief that the rebuild would be expedited this summer, once we add a top-5 or so pick and, potentially, two stars. If the Fizdale aura is real, I could see Kyrie/Butler being in play. Hell, if we get Barrett or Little, I could see Kyrie/Durant being in play. We wouldn't be a team that looked like it was going to lose forever.

And, again, if they didn't come, we'd still be in great spot. I don't see a compelling enough reason to bring in Butler now.

You make good points for staying out of the Butler-Irving -- trifecta? 

But i don't think there is any chance KD ever plays for the Knicks. 

Hope i'm wrong but just don't see him as the guy to lead us to the promised land.

Not cut out for this cloth.

Mentally.

And you can't assume we will land a top 5 pick.

We were 9 this season.  And that was with a half-season from KP.  Same as next year.

That's a lot of teams to  -- leapfrog?

So to me... if you don't do Butler now and Irving later... you won't get either

And you're never gonna get KD....

so who are you making all this cap space for??

DeMarcus Cousins?  Draymond Green?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 22, 2018, 02:29:57 AM
Enes Kanter?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 22, 2018, 05:00:39 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 22, 2018, 02:29:57 AM
Enes Kanter?
Someone I’d happily ship out to make room for Jimmy Butler.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 22, 2018, 05:50:01 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 22, 2018, 05:00:39 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 22, 2018, 02:29:57 AM
Enes Kanter?
Someone I’d happily ship out to make room for Jimmy Butler.

Forgive them Lord, for they know not what they do. 
Title: Mudiay
Post by: chipstern on September 22, 2018, 06:40:02 AM
Emmanuel looks like he's dropped around 20 pounds. 

Just seems leaner, quicker and more decisive.  And much better technique on his jumper. 

A good first step. 

I'm looking forward to Fizz tossing some raw meat into the compound and watching those dogs Trey, Frank and Emmanuel 'fuss 'n fight. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on September 22, 2018, 09:25:45 AM
Kam - I think Butler and the kiddie corps is a bad enough fit I'm ok rolling with cap space even if we don't sign an all-star.

As for no guarantee of a top-5 pick, absolutely. But I think we will trend younger this year and Porzingis will play less than last year's 48 games (and still be recovering for those games he does play). So I see better chances at a top-5 pick.


re the Butler to Minny deal, the Wolves gave up Dunn, who doesn't look to me like he'll ever be a starter on a good team; Lavine, who smart teams would have let walk rather than sign to that crazy contract; and the Markannen/Patton swap. The latter is a genuine loss, the other two not so much. They made the playoffs for the first time since Bush was president because of the deal. It isn't the disaster of a deal some are making it out to be, even after the Wolves trade Butler for less than Markannen's worth.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 22, 2018, 10:53:41 AM
I largely agree.  But if the cost of Butler is just Tim Jr., Lance and a heavily protected 1st rounder, say Top 10 this year, Top 5 next.  I'm in.
Sure I'd worry about how it affects team chemistry, and why Butler has become difficult last two teams.  And the contract re-up. 
But suddenly the Knix would have two Top 20 NBA talents, plus a potentially studly pup in Knox, and another high top 10 pick coming.
I mean that's an instant team.
And in the playoffs next year, once KZ is fully back.
Then the clear focus is on getting a quality PG.
With KZ & Butler, we'd be a viable FA destination, with Kyrie or whoever as possibilities.
Add a good PG and NYK is vying for playoff homecourt in the weakened East.


And yes, Dunn was a washout in MINN.
Zach LeV was coming off an ACL op and has been a terrible defender, and looking for a new big contract.
And a #1 pick mid-late lotto is a crapshoot.  Maark looks good. 
Fits the modern game real well, and has more toughness than you'd expect.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 22, 2018, 01:52:49 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 22, 2018, 05:50:01 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 22, 2018, 05:00:39 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 22, 2018, 02:29:57 AM
Enes Kanter?
Someone I’d happily ship out to make room for Jimmy Butler.

Forgive them Lord, for they know not what they do.

Actually not the worst idea.....

I say this because it has been said that Thibs wants to compete this year - doesnt want to have a lesser chance of making the top 4-5-6 in the West by dealing JB

Kanter would surely add some - as losing Butler diminishes.  And of course you then add to that (more from NY) in picks or whatever
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 22, 2018, 02:08:55 PM
Plays PF next to Towns, right?

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 22, 2018, 03:34:58 PM
No idea

I do know he would be one of their top 7-8 players- and that he would be productive

Sucky thing to do to Enes though - he loves NY
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 22, 2018, 03:44:30 PM
Dunn in his second year was about what some of you feel Frank can be (went from an 8 PER toa  14+)

16 games cores of 15+ - in 52 games

Trend is up.  Will it plateau?  We shall see.

I liekLavine a bit more than Biz does but he makes a good point about the comeback from in jury

THOUGH - ine NBA Radio analyst this weeks ays he expects Heyward "fully back".

Different injury, true ....... but maybe these world class athletes do get "back"so much easier than us mere mortals.

(Microfracture is the one that most guys never become what they were.  Even Daniel Murphy in MLB has had this occur)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 22, 2018, 03:58:43 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 22, 2018, 03:34:58 PM
No idea

I do know he would be one of their top 7-8 players- and that he would be productive

Sucky thing to do to Enes though - he loves NY

Talk to your boy Layden. Tell him we’ll throw in Ron Baker to make the math work.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on September 22, 2018, 06:34:24 PM
Nah.  Unavailable.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 22, 2018, 10:20:36 PM
Be happy I’m not putting Mudiay on the table, someone who might actually make the regular season roster and contribute to winning basketball this year.
Title: Frank is a legit 6'6" now?
Post by: Kam on September 22, 2018, 10:49:50 PM
Frank Ntilikina, PG: Has grown 1 ¹/₂ inches since last season, but Knicks still listing him at same height, perhaps by his wishes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 23, 2018, 02:22:30 AM
Microfracture and Achilles tears.

Micro-fracture surgery means that a healing deficit already exists.  That blood flow is limited to the area that needs healing.  So you are creating a number of new small injury sites (drilled micro-holes) in order to stimulate blood flow and promote healing.  So you're already talking about not just an injury but an injury that isn't healing properly/effectively.

Not sure why Achilles can't be repaired so that they can perform close to pre-op days.  One issue in sports is that it's usually older players who blow out their Achilles (think Isaiah, Barkley, Kobe) and healing takes longer when you're older and their athleticism had already significantly declined.

Be interesting to see how Boogie comes back from his Achilles rupture. Of course he has a lot of weight to place on that.
I think there's been a few youngish guys with Achilles issues lately.  But I'm blanking on other names.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 23, 2018, 03:01:57 AM
http://basketball.realgm.com/analysis/251183/Thirty-Futures-Joakim-Noah (http://basketball.realgm.com/analysis/251183/Thirty-Futures-Joakim-Noah)
Title: Fuck Jimmy Butler
Post by: chipstern on September 23, 2018, 03:18:35 AM
Word is that now he is going to bail on training camp. 

With a signed contract for just under $20,000,000.

A real PUNK ASS move. 

And this is the motherfucker some of you are going Cuckoo For Cocoa Puffs over. 

By all means, let's trade Kanter, Hardaway, Ntilikina and a #1 and give this singularly self-absorbed individual $40,000,000 X Five Years and make him the face of the franchise, instead of focusing on our youth and allowing The Fizz Kids To Inculcate Coach's teachings while bonding with each other and forging a foundational T-E-A-M unit. 

Fuck Jimmy Butler. 

And...oh, nevermind. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 23, 2018, 03:29:58 AM
Oh come on, Chip. Once Butler gets over this minor ripple of career turbulence I’m sure the are no possible circumstances where he would trouble management or disrupt chemistry on a team again.

We should probably mortgage our future to get him. There’s a thought.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 23, 2018, 05:23:35 AM
Butler was part of the rift in Chicago too.
Again having to do with not getting along with younger players.
And the Knix of course are loaded with ... younger players.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 23, 2018, 05:46:34 AM
Now the owner doesn't want Butler in training camp and wants a deal done within days.  Certainly makes it harder for MINNy to get a good return.

The smart thing would have been to tell Butler's camp to cool it, and the team will do everything to find a trade.  Just act like everything is normal until a deal is reached.

Awkward: Thibs is the decider and he wants Butler to stay.  He's been vetoed by the owner.  So Layden will likely be handling offers.
But:
Quote
“The owner’s trading him,” one Board of Governors source told ESPN. “That was made clear. It’s just a matter of when.” “He basically said, ‘If you don’t get anywhere with [Layden], and you’ve got something good, bring it to me,” another high-ranking league official told ESPN. 

So even Layden is a figurehead/frontman and can be sidestepped.

This has turned into a mess rather quickly.
Also, Towns just got a Big max extension and doesn't get along with Thibs great.
So it looks like Wolves will need a new coach and new Head GM soon enough.
I guess Layden gets a crash audition to become the Top Man.
But he could easily be out as well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on September 23, 2018, 12:45:01 PM
usually the owner rules from where i come from.  if he wants Butler gone then Butler is gone.

Clippers seems like a good destination.

personally trading a #1 pick next year when despite chip's rose colored glasses and Frank is a really bad idea.

the kid is 20 years old and already shows true NBA defense.  we can't wait on him?  especially when the smart thing to do is let KP heal next year.  frankly if he gets 20 games i would be happy. that is the real reason why we are a high lottery pick.  if KP was fully healthy and here all year I would never say that.

 However he is as chip accurately says  the guy who makes NY run.  it's his team,

Jimmy Butler is 29 years old. i'm tired of giving guys that age big money when we have young talent like KP, Knox, Frank, Next year's lotto pick , Robinson and money for a younger free agent.

count me out on a deal unless it's for Hardaway straight up.  i guess that tells you how i feel about hardaway.  also allows us to get out of hardaway's deal and not sign butler next year if we choose.  giving us plenty of space next year.  now if Irving needs Butler to come ,then we have him. So a  different story.  simply for a former #1 pick (Frank) and a future #1 pick like next year .  no thank you.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 23, 2018, 02:00:40 PM
Why do you believe your pessimistic self over what has been reported on Porzingis (re:  injury)?
Title: Re: Frank is a legit 6'6" now?
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 23, 2018, 02:02:01 PM
Quote from: Kam on September 22, 2018, 10:49:50 PM
Frank Ntilikina, PG: Has grown 1 ¹/₂ inches since last season, but Knicks still listing him at same height, perhaps by his wishes.

Happens a lot

Antetokompo is now 7-3 1/4
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 23, 2018, 02:04:39 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 23, 2018, 03:29:58 AM
Oh come on, Chip. Once Butler gets over this minor ripple of career turbulence I’m sure the are no possible circumstances where he would trouble management or disrupt chemistry on a team again.

We should probably mortgage our future to get him. There’s a thought.

Come on, man - didnt you hear?  Jimmy is 29 going on 35.

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 23, 2018, 02:40:00 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 23, 2018, 05:23:35 AM
Butler was part of the rift in Chicago too.
Again having to do with not getting along with younger ENTITLED players.
And the Knix of course are loaded with ... younger players.

Young guys who slack on defense (KAT got killed by Capella in the playoffs) aren't in favor with Butler.


Or me.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 23, 2018, 02:56:10 PM
Need to learn to mentor, lead, show leadership -- not cause a huge rift in 2 different lockerrooms in successive years.
In CHI, Rondo stood up for the young pups against Butler's dismissal.

As for Towns, I remember LeBron playing chumpy D his first few years in the League.  But I think Wiggins is more the problem there.  His effort on both ends comes and goes.  At least KAT mostly dominates on O.

Coltrane Radio until the day is done:
http://wkcr.streamguys1.com/live.m3u
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on September 23, 2018, 03:45:22 PM
Waiving Jo No now rather than waiting to see what happens next summer sure is dumb.

THJr's contract and the Baker fiasco demonstrated Mills was in way above his head but Perry's entry gave the impression the ship had been righted. The Fiz hire, for example, was brilliant. The Melo trade has worked out well. Burke, Knox, Big Meech Robinson - there's stuff to be pleased with. Most of all, the talk of patience in the face of a star asking to come here has been reassuring and a far cry from how many administrations past would have handled the Butler situation.

But with how Noah's deal is being handled - no financial benefit waiving him now versus next summer, but losing the potential of including him in a sign-and-trade or, worse, stretching him and not needing the extra cap space and having to live with the dead money - implies either the dead hand of Steve Mills is back at it or Perry isn't strong enough to say no or that Perry's not very savvy either.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 23, 2018, 05:11:28 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on September 23, 2018, 03:45:22 PM
Waiving Jo No now rather than waiting to see what happens next summer sure is dumb.

THJr's contract and the Baker fiasco demonstrated Mills was in way above his head but Perry's entry gave the impression the ship had been righted. The Fiz hire, for example, was brilliant. The Melo trade has worked out well. Burke, Knox, Big Meech Robinson - there's stuff to be pleased with. Most of all, the talk of patience in the face of a star asking to come here has been reassuring and a far cry from how many administrations past would have handled the Butler situation.

But with how Noah's deal is being handled - no financial benefit waiving him now versus next summer, but losing the potential of including him in a sign-and-trade or, worse, stretching him and not needing the extra cap space and having to live with the dead money - implies either the dead hand of Steve Mills is back at it or Perry isn't strong enough to say no or that Perry's not very savvy either.

Maybe the roster spot is needed.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on September 23, 2018, 06:16:11 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on September 23, 2018, 03:45:22 PM
Waiving Jo No now rather than waiting to see what happens next summer sure is dumb.

THJr's contract and the Baker fiasco demonstrated Mills was in way above his head but Perry's entry gave the impression the ship had been righted. The Fiz hire, for example, was brilliant. The Melo trade has worked out well. Burke, Knox, Big Meech Robinson - there's stuff to be pleased with. Most of all, the talk of patience in the face of a star asking to come here has been reassuring and a far cry from how many administrations past would have handled the Butler situation.

But with how Noah's deal is being handled - no financial benefit waiving him now versus next summer, but losing the potential of including him in a sign-and-trade or, worse, stretching him and not needing the extra cap space and having to live with the dead money - implies either the dead hand of Steve Mills is back at it or Perry isn't strong enough to say no or that Perry's not very savvy either.

could not agree more. 
Title: Your Honor, I Rest My Case
Post by: chipstern on September 23, 2018, 07:04:57 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on September 23, 2018, 03:45:22 PM
Waiving Jo No now rather than waiting to see what happens next summer sure is dumb.

THJr's contract and the Baker fiasco demonstrated Mills was in way above his head but Perry's entry gave the impression the ship had been righted. The Fiz hire, for example, was brilliant. The Melo trade has worked out well. Burke, Knox, Big Meech Robinson - there's stuff to be pleased with. Most of all, the talk of patience in the face of a star asking to come here has been reassuring and a far cry from how many administrations past would have handled the Butler situation.

But with how Noah's deal is being handled - no financial benefit waiving him now versus next summer, but losing the potential of including him in a sign-and-trade or, worse, stretching him and not needing the extra cap space and having to live with the dead money - implies either the dead hand of Steve Mills is back at it or Perry isn't strong enough to say no or that Perry's not very savvy either.

A simplistic overreach.

A venal sin, and a minor cerebellum synapse.   

This too shall pass.  More of that anon. 

In a sense, I shared your focus on retaining Noah, not for cap/trade bait, but to mentor our young bigs and to fill in behind Kanter.  Not so much as a trade chip. 

For Mills and Perry, clearly their sense of things was that if Noah INSISTED ON PLAYING TIME, as a foundational piece for him remaining, it would be uncomfortable for ALL PARTIES INVOLVED.  As it was last season when Hornacek unduly wounded his professional pride.  Noah was ready to make a contribution. 

Not a dumb move, but one that was not limited in its focus to the Knicks needs, but to Noah's, and an ACT OF SIMPLE RESPECT.  I dare say Perry has been cooing into the ears of Noah's reps and trying to foster a compromise where Noah is able to seek out a soft landing portal before training camp begins, gives back probably a shade more money than he would've back last spring, and Knicks prune away an aged vet, who surely has some game remaining, and hopefully finds a nice match in the next few weeks. 

Didn't get back enough cap space to suit you?

Hey, they didn't try and set Noah's ass on fire, like Phil did with Melo, as a precursor to him going out the door. 

[Porzingis]
Kanter
Kornet
Robinson
Vonleh

Even with KP MIA For 2018-2019, that is four bigs who can give you minutes at C-PF.  Four YOUNG BIGS I hasten to add. 

For which Noah does not qualify.

So, really Brother B, THERE IS HOPE FOR MILLS, as this is consistent with all of the other moves you thought were prescient. 

For now, Fizdale still speaks of Coutney among the living.  And with Noah gone, less pressing need for a slow boat to China.  More likely with minutes to showcase Lee's more reasonable contract, skill-set and physical upside, between now and February, a deal might be made for a player with an expiring in the summer of 2019. 

Mills is pulling the trigger on Noah now for roughly the same reasons Steve & Scott are not bellying up to the bar, boys, and making a play for Jimmy Butler.  Because with KP on the mend, their is a rational reason to really let him heal prudently, maybe for all of 2018-2019, which is why 2018-2019 has been consecrated for THE FIZZ KIDS.  That is our roster.  Many free agent considerations with our cap space for all of our free agents. 

And as so prudent a handicapper as yourself has projected 20 wins, in a rosy projection of us having a roll of the dice for Holy Zion, well, it ain't TANKING If You Are TRYING To WIN.  Which we most definitely are, but but you see, Coach has carte blanche to let the FIZZ KIDS compete, get thrown into the cauldron, and TO TAKE THEIR FUCKING LUMPS, to learn how to win, how to finish, how to play the team game, HOW TO PLAY DEFENSE, even if it means losing two out of every three games.  If by next April we playing .500 ball, that is progress, and it ain't tanking, and their are no meaningful veteran players on the roster, save for Lee & Thomas, which is why, given the PRIORITY of doing a actual factual reboot with youth for the first time in 50 years, YOU DON'T GO AFTER BUTLER NOW.  Wrong cat to bond with youth, and what the fuck, if next summer we have a healthy KP and a ripe draft choice, and a clearer idea of what we have on our roster and in G-League, that THEN it might make sense to seek out one maybe two moderately priced vets, and top tier vet...such as fucking Jimmy Butler.

Mills & Perry are not allowing themselves to be stampeded by a fan feeding frenzy for what Fizz characterized as the shiny object. 

CULTURE FIRST IN 2018-2019

Free Agent Destination in 2019-2020

Sounds pretty fucking purposeful and well thought out to me. 

Your theory presupposes that Mills is too stoopid to learn from his mistakes, and he has made plenty of them, beginning with Isiah Thomas.  But Steve was a college point guard for Coach What's His Name with his system at Princeton.  So he ain't just a suit.  And we have a roster full of busts looking to be overachievers.  Motivation.  What a narrative.  Players to root for, such as Mudiay and Burke and Hezonja and Vonleh.  And our Kiddie Korps of Knox, Robinson, Ntilikina, Kornet.  Me thrilled.

The last thing Godfather Fizz needed at this time was the distraction of adding a $40,000,000 concielerge in the form of Jimmy Butler, when he is trying to turn Kevin, Mitchel and Frank in to capos. 

Keep Your Friends Close And Your Enemies Closer. 

The Salary Cap is NOT David Fizdale's focus. 

Player Development Is The Mantra, And Mills has given him a whole year to EMBRACE THE GROWING PAINS. 

PRETTY FUCKING SMART, if you ask me.  Noah was a distraction with two years left.  Lee and Thomas also have two years left, but they are role players, and as such, not a distraction. 

Whereas Noah didn't fit the pedigree of a role player with four bigs to fast track. 

STRETCH. 

So their's the door, Norton, for all of these off with their heads pronouncements. 

Brother Biz, Nagel, you are going to be very happy campers. 

Your NEW, Low Expectation Knicks.

(https://i.makeagif.com/media/3-17-2016/4YS1xY.gif)

The small victories, Ralph. 

Signed

Rosie The PomPom Gurl
Title: Jimmy Butler To...MIAMI
Post by: chipstern on September 23, 2018, 08:07:21 PM
Know what team makes sense for Jimmy Butler?

Miami. 

Leaves the Western Conference for the East.

Miami has more of a veteran roster.  Butler would be a good fit. 

What could they offer. 

Well, a #1 of course, as well as a #2 if they are trying to sweeten the pot, and two YOUNG Players in Tyler Johnson and  Justise Winslow. 

Miami has Dragic at PG.

Dwayne Wade, Dion Walters, Josh Richardson and Wayne Ellington at SG.

Butler at SF and SG.

James Johnson at SF

Whiteside, Bam Adebayo, Kelly Olynyk, Udonis Haslam at C-PF. 

Nice mix of youth, mid-youth and vets.  Better match for Butler than the Knicks.  And vicea versa. 

Gives Thibs offensive and defensive pieces to slot in at SG and SF in a rotation with Wiggins.  Tyler can rock a bit of point as well.  And Justis is Thibs type of ball player.  Less pressure to score in their offense.  And maybe Wiggins would be more comfortable at SG than SF.  Winslow gives him and Thibs some options. 

Anyway, that from someone who foresaw Melo for McDermott and Kanter (and the #2 that produced Robinson).

[In portals of my mind anyway.  Jumped out at me on REAL GM Trade Checker.] 

Not as good a call as Biz identifying Knox as our #1, but then, we aspire to greatness. 
Title: Noah Fence Joakim
Post by: Kam on September 23, 2018, 09:39:46 PM
I will be happy when Noah's Knick Arc is over.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 23, 2018, 10:15:49 PM
Ark Saga, 2018-19

If Noah is not going to be used you run the risk he could become a real dick, a nuisance.

So you are CREATING the situation - and can choose to let it simmer and do possible damage to your young team - or show the man the door -

Plan B may be wisest, no matter how it makes the team look short term.  Rather than saying, "F that, man - I aint lettin him dictate....", you make the proper call and release the man.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 24, 2018, 03:26:16 AM
Reminder: if we stretch Noah and strike out in 2019 FA pursuit, we can pay off the remainder of his salary that year and have no lingering cap hit. This may also be something we can exceed the cap and tax thresholds to do.

We do need the roster spot. Bye bye JoNo.
Title: Re: Jimmy Butler To...MIAMI
Post by: bodiddley on September 24, 2018, 08:41:40 AM
Quote from: chipstern on September 23, 2018, 08:07:21 PM
Well, a #1 of course, as well as a #2 if they are trying to sweeten the pot, and two YOUNG Players in Tyler Johnson and  Justise Winslow. 

MIA reportedly charging hard after Butler.

That would be a great deal for MIA.
They get out of Tyler's ridiculous contract, and Winslow is looking to get paid next year as an RFA.
And with Butler their draft pick will might be around 20 or so.

MINN gets some talent, but just two role players.  And a pick.
Enough?  Well, they have a short deadline and who knows what other offers will come in.
Butler rather a Sell low due to his attitude and desire for a max deal next Summer.

Apparently Miniapple would rather move Butler to the East rather than to a playoff contender in the West, such as da Clips.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 24, 2018, 08:45:54 AM
https://www.postingandtoasting.com/2018/9/21/17889392/the-knicks-signed-forward-jeff-coby-to-a-training-camp-deal (https://www.postingandtoasting.com/2018/9/21/17889392/the-knicks-signed-forward-jeff-coby-to-a-training-camp-deal)

Jeff Coby.  Columbia guy.  Interesting.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 24, 2018, 08:47:56 AM
Quote
The former GM believes the NBA should get rid of no-trade clauses, explaining that they are too player-friendly. He also believes trade kickers, which bump up a player’s pay by a certain percentage in the event of a deal, can sometimes be viewed as an incentive for a player to push for a trade rather what it was originally intended to be – a clause that gives them peace of mind that they won’t be dealt.

“It’s an absolutely criminal advantage in the favor of the player. If you give a player a no-trade clause, they have you by the balls,” the former GM said. “They can do whatever the f**k they want and there’s nothing you can do to force that player into listening to you or doing what you need him to do. And if they aren’t happy, they can hold a gun to your head and say, ‘I’ll only accept a trade to this one team,’ and you’re going to get pennies on the dollar. I don’t understand why owners ever agree to it. How much sense does it make to give that to a guy? Most of the really good players make more money if they’re traded because they have a big trade kicker, so they have an incentive to want a trade! Another team can give them even more money and handle all the relocation costs and kiss their a** – they’ll be completely coddled. Some teams do things that are totally against the rules like give the guy way more flights than he can get and fly the players’ family out private… They’re going to have their a** kissed to such an amazing degree that being traded isn’t a big deal for those superstar players. It’s a big deal for a minimum player, it’s a big deal for a lot of players, but not them. It’s almost the dream scenario for some guys, and the organization is getting absolutely f****d in the deal, which is why you can’t put yourself in that situation! The no-trade clause is the dumbest clause that exists in any deal. It’s the only clause where the player can do anything and the organization can just be completely screwed over.

Quote
When asked about no-trade clauses, agents acknowledged that they’ve become nearly impossible to land – even for the biggest of superstars.

“You’re never going to get a no-trade clause,” one agent said. “You can try – a handful of guys have gotten one – but you probably aren’t getting it. Everyone would love to have one, though.”

So Phil gave Melo the last no-trade clause ever.
(I'm kidding -- likely AD or Antetekounmpo or KD will get one if they press for it).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 24, 2018, 08:53:11 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 24, 2018, 08:45:54 AM
https://www.postingandtoasting.com/2018/9/21/17889392/the-knicks-signed-forward-jeff-coby-to-a-training-camp-deal (https://www.postingandtoasting.com/2018/9/21/17889392/the-knicks-signed-forward-jeff-coby-to-a-training-camp-deal)

Jeff Coby.  Columbia guy.  Interesting.

https://www.northjersey.com/story/sports/nba/knicks/2018/09/19/new-york-knicks-sign-tyrius-walker/1357634002/ (https://www.northjersey.com/story/sports/nba/knicks/2018/09/19/new-york-knicks-sign-tyrius-walker/1357634002/)

Tyrius Walker

6'1" Morehouse State point guard who made a positive impression on Knicks during summer league. 
Title: Douche
Post by: chipstern on September 24, 2018, 09:31:50 AM
Butler had his own double standard.

Privately and publicly he occasionally roasted both Wiggins and Towns for their shoddy defensive effort and acumen.

But the most consequentially bad defender on the Wolves, by far, last season was Jamal Crawford, the sixth man who played 42 percent of his team’s minutes and compiled a defensive rating of 112.9 points allowed per 100 possessions. Phoenix finished last in team defensive efficiency allowing 110.6 points per 100 possessions. Towns and Wiggins both had a defensive rating of 107.7 points allowed per 100 possessions.

But Butler never felt the need to criticize Crawford, who also had a higher usage rate on offense than anyone on the Wolves but Butler and another ex-Bull, Derrick Rose. –  via The Athletic

Relative to his production, Towns was woefully underutilized in the offense last season. Among the top 25 scorers in the NBA (KAT was 24th), only Stephen Curry had a higher true shooting percentage. None of them averaged fewer field-goal attempts per game than Towns at 14.3, down from 18 attempts the previous season. –  via The Athletic

Thank GOD, we didn't sign Thibs as our coach.  For all of his much-vaunted defensive acumen, he tends to burn players out in short rotations, is an offensive stick in the mud, and something of a douche, not unlike purported franchise player Butler.
Title: Re: Douche
Post by: lesterluv on September 24, 2018, 09:48:49 AM
Quote from: chipstern on September 24, 2018, 09:31:50 AM
Butler had his own double standard.

Privately and publicly he occasionally roasted both Wiggins and Towns for their shoddy defensive effort and acumen.

But the most consequentially bad defender on the Wolves, by far, last season was Jamal Crawford ...

Well, not so sure he would have gotten too far with Jamal. I didn't cry when we dumped him cause it was honestly way too painful to watch him on the other side of the court anymore, as bad as it gets. Harden-laughable bad. But if Jamal couldn't bring it at 25, don't think he was going to at 38! Far more important to instill some fight in your young dogs...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 24, 2018, 10:56:19 AM
You know Craw isn't going to stop anybody.  That's part of his package. And he was 38 to boot.  And a $4M investment.

But Wiggins is young, athletic and earning $25M ($6M more than Butler).  Towns = young, athletic, #1 overall pick, set to cash in Big.

I wouldn't equate the situations.

Wig and KAT were starters.  And if they could score in the clutch, MINN wouldn't have needed much Craw.  And if they could defend, Wolves would have been a much better team.
Not to excuse Butler being a jerk about it.

Craw one of my least favorite Knicks.  A chucker who didn't play D at all.  And then pouted when asked to come off the bench.  Which proved to be his best role.  A bench light'em scorer.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 24, 2018, 11:14:06 AM
Crawford Trivia:

1) What's his actual first name?

2) He's journeyed to 7 different teams.
Which did he play with the longest?
2nd longest?
3rd?

Craw has an ability to get off his shot, is willing to take tough shots, and can make tough shots.
But his career = 41% FG and 35% on 3's.
Very average for a shooter (and guy who didn't play D).
Title: Jamal
Post by: Kam on September 24, 2018, 01:26:08 PM
J-Crossover isn't just a shooter.

He added a unique "and-1" dribble style to the NBA that everyone has copied.

He is Bo's least favorite knick
(a bizarre claim)

but my most favorite ex-knick still playing in the NBA

He leads everyone in 4 point plays ever

He has managed to stick around as long as he has

He still looks 25

He made the pass to yourself off the backboard a thing.

There would be no KD without JC

he changed the game man
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 24, 2018, 02:45:29 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 24, 2018, 08:47:56 AM
Quote
The former GM believes the NBA should get rid of no-trade clauses, explaining that they are too player-friendly. He also believes trade kickers, which bump up a player’s pay by a certain percentage in the event of a deal, can sometimes be viewed as an incentive for a player to push for a trade rather what it was originally intended to be – a clause that gives them peace of mind that they won’t be dealt.

“It’s an absolutely criminal advantage in the favor of the player. If you give a player a no-trade clause, they have you by the balls,” the former GM said. “They can do whatever the f**k they want and there’s nothing you can do to force that player into listening to you or doing what you need him to do. And if they aren’t happy, they can hold a gun to your head and say, ‘I’ll only accept a trade to this one team,’ and you’re going to get pennies on the dollar. I don’t understand why owners ever agree to it. How much sense does it make to give that to a guy? Most of the really good players make more money if they’re traded because they have a big trade kicker, so they have an incentive to want a trade! Another team can give them even more money and handle all the relocation costs and kiss their a** – they’ll be completely coddled. Some teams do things that are totally against the rules like give the guy way more flights than he can get and fly the players’ family out private… They’re going to have their a** kissed to such an amazing degree that being traded isn’t a big deal for those superstar players. It’s a big deal for a minimum player, it’s a big deal for a lot of players, but not them. It’s almost the dream scenario for some guys, and the organization is getting absolutely f****d in the deal, which is why you can’t put yourself in that situation! The no-trade clause is the dumbest clause that exists in any deal. It’s the only clause where the player can do anything and the organization can just be completely screwed over.

Quote
When asked about no-trade clauses, agents acknowledged that they’ve become nearly impossible to land – even for the biggest of superstars.

“You’re never going to get a no-trade clause,” one agent said. “You can try – a handful of guys have gotten one – but you probably aren’t getting it. Everyone would love to have one, though.”

So Phil gave Melo the last no-trade clause ever.
(I'm kidding -- likely AD or Antetekounmpo or KD will get one if they press for it).

Irving had a no-trade

He waived it
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 24, 2018, 02:48:45 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 24, 2018, 08:53:11 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 24, 2018, 08:45:54 AM
https://www.postingandtoasting.com/2018/9/21/17889392/the-knicks-signed-forward-jeff-coby-to-a-training-camp-deal (https://www.postingandtoasting.com/2018/9/21/17889392/the-knicks-signed-forward-jeff-coby-to-a-training-camp-deal)

Jeff Coby.  Columbia guy.  Interesting.

https://www.northjersey.com/story/sports/nba/knicks/2018/09/19/new-york-knicks-sign-tyrius-walker/1357634002/ (https://www.northjersey.com/story/sports/nba/knicks/2018/09/19/new-york-knicks-sign-tyrius-walker/1357634002/)

Tyrius Walker

6'1" Morehouse State point guard who made a positive impression on Knicks during summer league.

yeah -  not as interesting
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 24, 2018, 03:50:56 PM
Eddy Curry, Jerome James and Pat Cummings were runners-up.

Most of what you credit him with seems like it was already around.
Jason Williams, Rafer Alston, Iverson, etc.
I don't recall Craw doing a backboard self-pass.  I do remember McGrady making it a thing.

What I will give Craw credit for is being an integral part of the Seattle area hoops network, where guys really look after each other.  Some recent rook said he stayed over at Craw's house a bunch during a high school Summer.  Fultz, maybe?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 24, 2018, 05:02:30 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 24, 2018, 02:48:45 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 24, 2018, 08:53:11 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 24, 2018, 08:45:54 AM
https://www.postingandtoasting.com/2018/9/21/17889392/the-knicks-signed-forward-jeff-coby-to-a-training-camp-deal (https://www.postingandtoasting.com/2018/9/21/17889392/the-knicks-signed-forward-jeff-coby-to-a-training-camp-deal)

Jeff Coby.  Columbia guy.  Interesting.

https://www.northjersey.com/story/sports/nba/knicks/2018/09/19/new-york-knicks-sign-tyrius-walker/1357634002/ (https://www.northjersey.com/story/sports/nba/knicks/2018/09/19/new-york-knicks-sign-tyrius-walker/1357634002/)

Tyrius Walker

6'1" Morehouse State point guard who made a positive impression on Knicks during summer league.

yeah -  not as interesting
w
r
o
n
g

Kid is a leader, a winner, the purest, most natural rudder on the 20 man roster. 

Westchester bound.  But a great stash.  Four year Point. 

Your snark has been duly noted. 
Title: Breakthrough Year A-Coming
Post by: chipstern on September 24, 2018, 05:10:58 PM
Enough males in the Ball Family. 

Could use a few men. 

Mike Trudell: Lonzo on becoming a father over the summer: “You gotta think about a whole other human being. When she was born, that changed my view on everything.”  –  via Twitter LakersReporter

Between his little girl, Rondo & LeBron, Lonzo has a nurturing posse of maternal wisdom to bond with. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on September 24, 2018, 05:38:16 PM
wonder if anyone actually asked Noah if he would be fine simply being a mentor to robinson.  getting a few minutes here and there.

did they even talk to him?  some of you are assuming he would of been a problem.

i don't see that.  he had a better chance to teaching ROBINSON WHAT IT TAKES TO BE AN NBA PLAYER THAN EK DOES.

THAT IS MY TAKE.

doesn't matter.

i'm not a fan of our president.  Perry and Fizdale seem to be saying the right things but the Hardaway/Baker signings leave me cold.  overpay on both to me.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 24, 2018, 06:32:36 PM
Quote from: Nagel on September 24, 2018, 05:38:16 PM
wonder if anyone actually asked Noah if he would be fine simply being a mentor to robinson.  getting a few minutes here and there.

did they even talk to him?  some of you are assuming he would of been a problem.

i don't see that.  he had a better chance to teaching ROBINSON WHAT IT TAKES TO BE AN NBA PLAYER THAN EK DOES.

THAT IS MY TAKE.

doesn't matter.

i'm not a fan of our president.  Perry and Fizdale seem to be saying the right things but the Hardaway/Baker signings leave me cold.  overpay on both to me.

As it so happens...

Perry talked to Noah earlier this summer, and THEY agreed that a mentor role was not something that work for him, as he needed a commitment to playing time that was not going to be forthcoming. 

And Christ almighty, Hardaway and Baker.  This is what keeps you fucking awake at night? 

Are you still upset about Stevenson getting pummeled by Eisenhower? 

PS: And Kanter has PLENTY to convey to Mitchell Robinson. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on September 24, 2018, 08:18:45 PM
if that was agree to thenOk.  no those two don't keep me up at night,  i don't give a fuck.
'
“I got a chance to play with him in open gym, and I was shocked a little bit,” Burke said Monday at media day at the MSG Training Center. “His ability to just get a rebound off of the rim, just go right back up and just dunk it, it reminded me of like a young — and this is high praise — it reminded me of like a young Shaquille O’Neal, just skinnier.

“Me seeing a rookie do that, I was like, man, this kid can be great.”

NBA ordered immediate drug testing for Burke.
Title: THEY GIT SOME GOOD DRUGS
Post by: chipstern on September 24, 2018, 09:37:54 PM
Quote from: Nagel on September 24, 2018, 08:18:45 PM
if that was agree to thenOk.  no those two don't keep me up at night,  i don't give a fuck.
'
“I got a chance to play with him in open gym, and I was shocked a little bit,” Burke said Monday at media day at the MSG Training Center. “His ability to just get a rebound off of the rim, just go right back up and just dunk it, it reminded me of like a young — and this is high praise — it reminded me of like a young Shaquille O’Neal, just skinnier.

“Me seeing a rookie do that, I was like, man, this kid can be great.”

NBA ordered immediate drug testing for Burke.

“When I think about the playoffs, my nipples get hard.”
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 24, 2018, 09:51:09 PM
I dont have a problem with folks calling THJ an overpay

As long as they realise he wouldnt be on the roster otherwise.

Baker was an organizational "we like this guy" keep.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 25, 2018, 12:34:44 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 24, 2018, 09:51:09 PM
I dont have a problem with folks calling THJ an overpay
As long as they realise he wouldnt be on the roster otherwise.

Baker was an organizational "we like this guy" keep.

But how would we replace Tim's 31% distance shooting?
Actually, you offer Tim a $15M starting salary, and ATL might not match that either, so he might be on the Knix at a $2M savings.
But at least with Tim, it's understandable that you overpay for an RFA (and a starter).  That's how you get your target.  Too low, and it's matched.  And the hope is that Tim Jr. grows into his contract.

But with Baker, we were bidding against ourselves.
2/$4M or 2/$5M should have been fine.  Or at a higher amount
a 2nd year team option.

These weren't huge overpays or big blunders, but if you save $2M on each, you have an extra $4M with which to pay another player or add to cap space.
Title: Re: THEY GIT SOME GOOD DRUGS
Post by: Nagel on September 25, 2018, 01:31:25 AM
Quote from: chipstern on September 24, 2018, 09:37:54 PM
Quote from: Nagel on September 24, 2018, 08:18:45 PM
if that was agree to thenOk.  no those two don't keep me up at night,  i don't give a fuck.
'
“I got a chance to play with him in open gym, and I was shocked a little bit,” Burke said Monday at media day at the MSG Training Center. “His ability to just get a rebound off of the rim, just go right back up and just dunk it, it reminded me of like a young — and this is high praise — it reminded me of like a young Shaquille O’Neal, just skinnier.

“Me seeing a rookie do that, I was like, man, this kid can be great.”

NBA ordered immediate drug testing for Burke.

“When I think about the playoffs, my nipples get hard.”

BB porn star
Title: Re: THEY GIT SOME GOOD DRUGS
Post by: chipstern on September 25, 2018, 03:16:24 AM
Quote from: Nagel on September 25, 2018, 01:31:25 AM
Quote from: chipstern on September 24, 2018, 09:37:54 PM
Quote from: Nagel on September 24, 2018, 08:18:45 PM
if that was agree to thenOk.  no those two don't keep me up at night,  i don't give a fuck.
'
“I got a chance to play with him in open gym, and I was shocked a little bit,” Burke said Monday at media day at the MSG Training Center. “His ability to just get a rebound off of the rim, just go right back up and just dunk it, it reminded me of like a young — and this is high praise — it reminded me of like a young Shaquille O’Neal, just skinnier.

“Me seeing a rookie do that, I was like, man, this kid can be great.”

NBA ordered immediate drug testing for Burke.

“When I think about the playoffs, my nipples get hard.”

BB porn star

Mid-Season Form
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 25, 2018, 04:32:48 AM
I take that back on Pat Cummings.  He gave a solid effort every night.  It wasn't his fault he was asked to be our starting C -- which is what I hated.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on September 25, 2018, 08:31:52 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 24, 2018, 03:50:56 PM
Eddy Curry, Jerome James and Pat Cummings were runners-up.

Most of what you credit him with seems like it was already around.
Jason Williams, Rafer Alston, Iverson, etc.
I don't recall Craw doing a backboard self-pass.  I do remember McGrady making it a thing.

What I will give Craw credit for is being an integral part of the Seattle area hoops network, where guys really look after each other.  Some recent rook said he stayed over at Craw's house a bunch during a high school Summer.  Fultz, maybe?

How can you forget the pass off the backboard....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on September 25, 2018, 08:35:28 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 24, 2018, 03:26:16 AM
Reminder: if we stretch Noah and strike out in 2019 FA pursuit, we can pay off the remainder of his salary that year and have no lingering cap hit. This may also be something we can exceed the cap and tax thresholds to do.

We do need the roster spot. Bye bye JoNo.

This is not my understanding of the rule, and I've checked the CBA. The reason I think it is dumb to waive Noah is precisely because we are stuck with the lingering cap hit. If you understand it differently, please share a link with an explanation (I certainly could be wrong).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on September 25, 2018, 08:59:05 AM
 Ron Baker can

score, inc from deep

handle

pass

defend 3 positions

Stop whining over 2 million bucks.   Randle and Kuzminskas don't have that skills list
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 25, 2018, 10:38:26 AM
For Chip, the Celts fan

https://twitter.com/Jack_Michael17/status/1044270421770731521 (https://twitter.com/Jack_Michael17/status/1044270421770731521)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 25, 2018, 01:47:56 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on September 25, 2018, 08:59:05 AM
Ron Baker can score, inc from deep handle pass defend 3 positions

He's also 3rd string, and our 6 or 7th best Guard...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 25, 2018, 03:28:43 PM
yeah, funny - they like the "more colorful" player.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 25, 2018, 04:16:08 PM
Can RB finish at the rim yet?  I remember i guy who could get there fearlessly.  And miss.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 25, 2018, 05:05:43 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 25, 2018, 01:47:56 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on September 25, 2018, 08:59:05 AM
Ron Baker can score, inc from deep handle pass defend 3 positions

He's also 3rd string, and our 6 or 7th best Guard...

This is what camp is for

(Chip will say he is 8th or 9th - heh)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 25, 2018, 05:29:29 PM
Quote from: Kam on September 25, 2018, 04:16:08 PM
Can RB finish at the rim yet? 

Occassionally.  Not sure what Fizzie wants

I think drawing and dishing is the better part of Bake's PG  game.

Initially to me he was just a 2 guard - but Knicks think otherwise (at least last year they did  - maybe this will change)

Frank, Bakes, THJ, Knox, KP wouldnt be a bad defensive look
Title: What Fizz Wants [One Lump Or Two?]
Post by: chipstern on September 25, 2018, 08:08:50 PM
Coach has given some pronounced clues to THE FIZZ KIDS.

Urging Kanter to practice this three point shot. 

So he wants to stretch the floor, and play the contemporary game. 

Suggesting he would play Mudiay-Burke-Ntilikina together.

So he wants to optimize ballhandling.

Telegraphing his intention to play Herzonja at the four. 

So Hezonja works this summer on his post-up game. 

Suggesting that he is going to toss Knox into the fire and let him take his lumps at the three. 

So Knox is conscious that defense is priority #1, and therein, GETTING OUT IN TRANSITION. 

During early workouts with the likes of Mudiay and Burke, he had them running layup drills, with an emphasis on footwork, finishing in rhythm, and finishing decisively.

So he is placing a premium on opening up passing/driving lanes with the three and attacking the rim, Attacking The Rim, ATTACKING THE RIM.

Burke
Mudiay
Ntilikina
Hardaway
Dotson
Baker

Crowded backcourt.

Knox
Lee
Thomas
Hezonja
Vonleh

Minutes up for grabs at SF/PF

Kanter
Kornet
Robinson

Enes is going to have to fight off the challenge of the two young pups he is likewise expected to mentor. 

Fizz is selling his Kids (and vets...Kanter...Hardaway...Lee...Thomas) on POSITIONLESS BASKETBALL & STARTERLESS BASKETBALL. 

I mean, okay, that's nice in principle...but it seems to me the motivation is to engender the fiercest levels of competition AND teamwork, a touchy balancing act. 

And maintaining that culture, having his charges ready to compete for 48 minutes, to learn how to close out and win, take your lumps and comeback. 

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/VainGregariousFrenchbulldog-max-1mb.gif)

Will that be one lump, or two...

(https://www.odt.co.nz/sites/default/files/styles/odt_landscape_extra_large_4_3/public/story/2018/03/sugar_cubes_tray_and_tongs.jpg?itok=m9RwCuNP)

Or three?

(https://media.giphy.com/media/D3OdaKTGlpTBC/giphy.gif)

Ladies & Gentlemen, Your New LOW EXPECTATION, New York Knickerbockers.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 25, 2018, 10:03:33 PM
heh

If Kanter is here he plays 30 minutes

Fighting off....

too funny
Title: Cracker Jack Off
Post by: chipstern on September 25, 2018, 11:26:59 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 25, 2018, 10:03:33 PM
heh

If Kanter is here he plays 30 minutes

Fighting off....

too funny

Would it be snarky of me to suggest you are a smug douche?

I thought not. 

We cool, then? 

Everyone please remember, vis a vis that inevitable point in the future, when Kiid sets out to re-write the evidence of the record, that Kiid Has Staked His Reputation On His Projection That
Mitchell Robinson is ticketed for Westchester and The G-League. 

(https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/001/131/honk.jpg)

PPS: Let's Squeeze The Our Forum Honky's Funny Nose...Peanuts....Popcorn...CrackerJackOff.

(https://media1.giphy.com/media/xT5LMVxrF7SnCyhbdm/giphy.gif)
Title: Basketball: A LOVE STORY
Post by: chipstern on September 25, 2018, 11:48:34 PM
Wonderful, comprehensive documentary on Pro Hoops, currently on ESPN2.

What a joy.

Currently reflecting on the ABA, which was a precursor to the modern game. 

Dr. J vs Sky Walker (Julius Erving vs David Thompson) in the first Slam Dunk Contest. 

Oh

My

GOD

"I won," Julius recalls.  "Got a $50 Gift Certificate."
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 26, 2018, 08:35:59 AM
Maybe Chip will name for us his 12 players in uniform opening night
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 26, 2018, 08:45:05 AM
G league or gone -

Trier, Coby, Walker, Allen, Hicks, Baker.......

Add one

Dotson?
Robinson?
Get rid of Lee?



What's the equation for Mitch to be active?
Title: 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-11-12
Post by: chipstern on September 26, 2018, 08:50:35 AM
Kanter, Kornet, Robinson

Hezonja, Vonleh, Thomas

Knox, Lee

Hardaway, Ntilikina

Burke, Mudiay

Title: Re: 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-11-12
Post by: chipstern on September 26, 2018, 09:41:27 AM
Quote from: chipstern on September 26, 2018, 08:50:35 AM
Kanter, Kornet, Robinson

Hezonja, Vonleh, Thomas

Knox, Lee

Hardaway, Ntilikina

Burke, Mudiay

+ Dotson

+ Baker

+ ??????
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 26, 2018, 11:03:59 AM
Keeping Robinson - Dotson and Baker make 14, without Porzingis.

12 dress.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 26, 2018, 12:26:29 PM
Butler says, "Knicks dont want me?  Fuck them then."

New desired team is HEAT

Good spot for Jimmy
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 26, 2018, 12:39:22 PM
Quote
Even though rookie Mitchell Robinson looked very sharp during summer league, the 19-year-old did not play college basketball and would need a lot more time to develop before receiving that much playing time.

But his trainer Marcell Scott believes he will be a starter midway through the year (via New York Post):
“I knew once they saw Mitchell on the court and saw all the stuff he brings to the table, the G-League would be eliminated from the conversation. I honestly think at the halfway mark, at the All-Star break, Mitch will be starting.”
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 26, 2018, 01:15:46 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 26, 2018, 12:39:22 PM
Quote
Even though rookie Mitchell Robinson looked very sharp during summer league, the 19-year-old did not play college basketball and would need a lot more time to develop before receiving that much playing time.

But his trainer Marcell Scott believes he will be a starter midway through the year (via New York Post):
“I knew once they saw Mitchell on the court and saw all the stuff he brings to the table, the G-League would be eliminated from the conversation. I honestly think at the halfway mark, at the All-Star break, Mitch will be starting.”

I said this in July.  I had a post saying Kanter won't finish the season our starter at C.
Title: It's Official
Post by: chipstern on September 26, 2018, 02:28:46 PM
Well, that makes it a plurality...of 2.
Title: Good Stuff
Post by: Kam on September 26, 2018, 02:51:15 PM
KP is rebounding for other Knicks in shooting drills.

Because it shows commitment to the team

AND

He needs to work on his rebounding.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on September 26, 2018, 02:52:17 PM
Robinson should been on the team and get minutes.

this is a developmental year.  so develop him.
Title: Rebound your height
Post by: Kam on September 26, 2018, 02:53:49 PM
Is that too much to ask KP?
Title: Mitchell Robinson for Lonzo Ball Trade Rumor
Post by: Kam on September 26, 2018, 02:59:43 PM
I don't know if there's anything to this. But if Rondo starts and if Mitchell emerges quickly...
Title: Re: Mitchell Robinson for Lonzo Ball Trade Rumor
Post by: chipstern on September 26, 2018, 04:05:33 PM
Quote from: Kam on September 26, 2018, 02:59:43 PM
I don't know if there's anything to this. But if Rondo starts and if Mitchell emerges quickly...

And your source for this [nonsense] is ______________?
Title: Ball Vs. Trier
Post by: chipstern on September 26, 2018, 05:25:09 PM
Could find zero evidence, to coin a phrase, of this "rumored" deal.

What I did find were numerous reports of the Lakers' promise to draft Robinson. 

They took Wagner instead.  Nice player.  More advanced technically at this point, at least on the offensive end.  Not sure he has Robinson's upside, though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WY53SR3Zviw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WY53SR3Zviw)

What I did stumble upon was this UCLA vs Arizona duel, in which Lonzo Ball and Alonzo Trier really went at it and acquitted themselves nicely. 

Knox
Robinson
Trier

Pretty nice haul. 

PS: Rondo may be starting, but that is more a reflection of accommodating LeBron, and allowing Lonzo to fully heal and to learn from Rajon.  I don't see the Lakers dangling Lonzo for anything, and when he is healthy, he is the lead sled dog for sure. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 27, 2018, 05:50:07 AM
Chris Dudley enters the Kavanaugh conversation (https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2018/09/26/chris-dudley-never-saw-brett-kavanaugh-blacked-out-drunk/1436058002/).
And . . . another missed FT.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 27, 2018, 08:02:51 AM
LeBron:

On Rondo:   "A competitor."

On Ball:   "Destined for greatness."
Title: Received Wisdom
Post by: chipstern on September 27, 2018, 02:00:05 PM
Fuck Jimmy Butler

PS: Note to Trader Vics.  Kyrie Irving is a Celtic.  Get over it. 

Heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Urethra_Franklin on September 27, 2018, 02:02:47 PM
I promise that Trey Burke will lead the team in scoring this season
Title: Re: Received Wisdom
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 27, 2018, 02:06:36 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 27, 2018, 02:00:05 PM
Fuck Jimmy Butler

PS: Note to Trader Vics.  Kyrie Irving is a Celtic.  Get over it. 

Heh

I like our team without Jimmy and with Kyrie

But if they have to be butt buddies, see ya to both.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 27, 2018, 02:07:32 PM
Butts has talked about playing with Kawhi in LA.

Not sure he is married to KI.  May be moreso the other way.
Title: Re: Received Wisdom
Post by: chipstern on September 27, 2018, 02:59:58 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 27, 2018, 02:06:36 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 27, 2018, 02:00:05 PM
Fuck Jimmy Butler

PS: Note to Trader Vics.  Kyrie Irving is a Celtic.  Get over it. 

Heh

I like our team without Jimmy and with Kyrie

But if they have to be butt buddies, see ya to both.

Please Note

The Narrative Which Held That Paying The Inflated Price For Jimmy Butler And His Fucking Ego Was The Road To Kyrie Irving's Heart Was Always BULLSHIT

Been Trying To Tell Suckers That This Was A False Flag And That The Idea Kyrie Would Bail On A Championship Caliber Team To Join His Bro ANYWHERE, Was Specious Nonsense. 

But hey, knock yourself out with this media fan circle jerk. 
Title: Re: Received Wisdom
Post by: Kam on September 27, 2018, 03:03:52 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 27, 2018, 02:59:58 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 27, 2018, 02:06:36 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 27, 2018, 02:00:05 PM
Fuck Jimmy Butler

PS: Note to Trader Vics.  Kyrie Irving is a Celtic.  Get over it. 

Heh

I like our team without Jimmy and with Kyrie

But if they have to be butt buddies, see ya to both.

Please Note

The Narrative Which Held That Paying The Inflated Price For Jimmy Butler And His Fucking Ego Was The Road To Kyrie Irving's Heart Was Always BULLSHIT

Been Trying To Tell Suckers That This Was A False Flag And That The Idea Kyrie Would Bail On A Championship Caliber Team To Join His Bro ANYWHERE, Was Specious Nonsense. 

But hey, knock yourself out with this media fan circle jerk.

That's like, your opinion, man.
Title: $1.99 for a limited time
Post by: Kam on September 27, 2018, 03:13:50 PM
The NBA believes it has the answer, and starting with the 2018-19 season, you’ll be able to buy portions of individual games through micro-transactions.

In a press release on Thursday, the NBA announced new offerings being added to its “NBA League Pass” program, which allows fans to watch out-of-market games over streaming services. These are being expanded to include the option for fans to buy single quarters of games, a revolutionary move that could change how fans consume live sports.

For current NBA League Pass subscribers all their viewing options will remain available, however fans can now pay $1.99 to watch from the conclusion of the third quarter until the end of the game.
Title: Re: Received Wisdom
Post by: chipstern on September 27, 2018, 03:37:10 PM
Quote from: Kam on September 27, 2018, 03:03:52 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 27, 2018, 02:59:58 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 27, 2018, 02:06:36 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 27, 2018, 02:00:05 PM
Fuck Jimmy Butler

PS: Note to Trader Vics.  Kyrie Irving is a Celtic.  Get over it. 

Heh

I like our team without Jimmy and with Kyrie

But if they have to be butt buddies, see ya to both.

Please Note

The Narrative Which Held That Paying The Inflated Price For Jimmy Butler And His Fucking Ego Was The Road To Kyrie Irving's Heart Was Always BULLSHIT

Been Trying To Tell Suckers That This Was A False Flag And That The Idea Kyrie Would Bail On A Championship Caliber Team To Join His Bro ANYWHERE, Was Specious Nonsense. 

But hey, knock yourself out with this media fan circle jerk.

That's like, your opinion, man.

That's like, my response to people who promulgated this wishful narrative as if it were F-A-C-T. 

By the way, not a Celtic F-A-N.  Miras damn near throttled me at MSG when I said, "You gotta love Paul Pierce."

Ha.

Celtics had just erased a huge first half Amare-Carmelo lead.  Paul Pierce.  Knicks Killer.  Right up their with Reggie.  Motherfucker DID IT AGAIN. 

R-E-S-P-E-C-T

The team Danny Ainge assembled.

The culture Brad Stevens nurtured. 

The attitude Celtics players play with and how they play WITH each other. 

Kiid sneers.  Good for him.  Celtics are the #1 team in the East.

Sixers coming on fast.  Raptors a force to reckon with. 

I point to the Celtics as a template for how to do it patiently and purposefully. 

That doesn't make me a fan, CrackerJack. 

But hey, it used to be damn near an honor to have Parish-McHale-Bird-Ainge-Johnson kick your ass.  Just a great tradition of team basketball.  That playoff series where Bernard and the Knicks took the Celtics to 7, with neither team yielding its home court?  Probably my fave Knicks playoff series, least ways top five for drama and competitive tenacity. 

In boxing, things are more cut and dry.  Man against Man.  Period. 

Team sports is a more complex paradigm.  Notice how Coach Fizdale made it a point to take his young charges to a playoff game last spring to witness first hand how it's done at the next level of winning hoops. 

And whom did Fizz take them to see?  The Celtics In BOSTON. 

And Irving is their bell cow. 

My opinion, huh?

Talk to y'all next June. 

In the meantime, I am getting behind Trey, Emmanuel and Frank. 

Free agency?  How about we grow our own for a hot minute or two. 

We got points.  Now let's see if we can't get a few wins. 

Your hometown LOW EXPECTATION New York Knickerbockers. 
Title: Re: Ball Vs. Trier
Post by: chipstern on September 27, 2018, 03:40:51 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 26, 2018, 05:25:09 PM
Could find zero evidence, to coin a phrase, of this "rumored" deal.

What I did find were numerous reports of the Lakers' promise to draft Robinson. 

They took Wagner instead.  Nice player.  More advanced technically at this point, at least on the offensive end.  Not sure he has Robinson's upside, though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WY53SR3Zviw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WY53SR3Zviw)

What I did stumble upon was this UCLA vs Arizona duel, in which Lonzo Ball and Alonzo Trier really went at it and acquitted themselves nicely. 

Knox
Robinson
Trier

Pretty nice haul. 

PS: Rondo may be starting, but that is more a reflection of accommodating LeBron, and allowing Lonzo to fully heal and to learn from Rajon.  I don't see the Lakers dangling Lonzo for anything, and when he is healthy, he is the lead sled dog for sure.

Ian Begley: David Fizdale has been impressed by Allonzo Trier this far. He said the Knicks have charted six chase-down blocks from Trier in scrimmages dating back to Summer League. Trier is on a two-way contract.
– via Twitter IanBegley
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 27, 2018, 03:56:28 PM
"Celts are the #1 team in the East......."

Raptors won the division

Cavaliers won the conference

Warriors won the league.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 27, 2018, 07:00:50 PM
No one promulgated shit. but knock yourself out. 

You read one article that supports  your bias and you write with biblical certitude what you feel will happen.

promulgate this.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 27, 2018, 07:29:28 PM
Quote from: Kam on September 27, 2018, 07:00:50 PM
No one promulgated shit. but knock yourself out. 

You read one article that supports  your bias and you write with biblical certitude what you feel will happen.

promulgate this.

Haha.

Nicely played...

However, I seem to have this vague recollection of a Facebook Friend, name of Kamiar (any relation?), earnestly asking if (IF) signing Butler guaranteed us getting Irving, would I still be opposed to giving up our #1.

There is the narrative that has been promulgated, conjecture based on more conjecture, based on wish fulfillment of a circle jerk, inculcated in the Classic Recipe by Iron Chef SHORT ORDER COOK for Minute Rice A La Melo. 

Kam.  Makes His Own Gravy. 

Silly me. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 27, 2018, 07:32:12 PM
That is me on Facebook Chipper.  Howdy!

Title: Delay Climax
Post by: chipstern on September 27, 2018, 08:10:57 PM
Quote from: Kam on September 27, 2018, 07:32:12 PM
That is me on Facebook Chipper.  Howdy!

It's all good, Kam-A-Matic. 

Where we differ, well, not differ, really, is in my stubborn patience with a slower, less rewarding process. 

And my willingness to take our lumps and allow that process to gestate. 

I have seen the appeal of the shiny object derail our franchise too many times. 

No less a handicapper than Biz, sees Mills as a congenital loser based on his faux pas concerning Hardaway, Baker and the Noah divorce. 

Fair enough. 

However, I see someone who has participated and frankly been complicit in any number of Knicks Front Office Brain Farts.  ANd I like the team he has assembled. 

Where we differ, is in my sense that he has learned from his mistakes, as has Dolan. 

Nagel sees Perry as a loser. 

I see someone who has also made his share of mistakes, but whose signature move so far, was to complete the Melo process in a gentlemanly manner, to resist pressure to send him packing for a bag of beans, and who maintained diplomatic relations with Melo, and whose final haul was Kanter, Mudiay and Robinson (not Ryan FUCKING Anderson). 

No more Phil aftertaste.  These Knicks, and these front office people, have tried every other approach, and failed with every other approach, and having now committed to a Coach where they are all on the same page and the mantra is Youth, Rebuild and (call me a Pom Pom Gurl) PATIENCE, I for one am willing to postpone orgasm. 
Title: PS
Post by: chipstern on September 27, 2018, 08:18:45 PM
Apparently Courtney, Baker and our #1 would not have been a winning offer. 
   
The Minnesota Timberwolves reportedly sought Ben Simmons in a potential Jimmy Butler trade with the Philadelphia 76ers. Appearing on The Bill Simmons Podcast on Thursday, The Ringer’s Kevin O’Connor explained just how high the Timberwolves’ asking price is for their disgruntled shooting guard: “One of the things that I’ve heard from a handful of sources is that—with the Sixers for example—the initial offer that they made, the counter-offer was like, ‘We need Ben Simmons in a deal.'”
– via Bleacher Report


Nothing ventured, nothing gained. 

Meanwhile, Butler collects paychecks, and refuses to play with his team. 

FUCK

JIMMY

BUTLER
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on September 27, 2018, 08:43:56 PM
Taylor has options

But would you call Butler's bluff, refuse to pay him, rather than work a deal?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 27, 2018, 09:08:59 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on September 27, 2018, 08:43:56 PM
Taylor has options

But would you call Butler's bluff, refuse to pay him, rather than work a deal?

Bluff?

Yes. 

He has a signed contract for just under $20 Million. 

Was disgruntled in Chicago and Minnesota ponied up a big package of assets to give him a second chance. 

Refuses to practice with his team? 

Willing to sit out the season?

Hey, in deference to your principles, we won't insist you suit up. 

WE JUST WON'T PAY YOU. 

No problema. 

PS: What Wolves are putting out there in terms of "deals" are utterly absurd.  BEN SIMMONS?  Seriously?  Thibs must be drinking absinthe. 
Title: Re: Delay Climax
Post by: Kam on September 27, 2018, 09:24:49 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 27, 2018, 08:10:57 PM
Quote from: Kam on September 27, 2018, 07:32:12 PM
That is me on Facebook Chipper.  Howdy!

It's all good, Kam-A-Matic. 

Where we differ, well, not differ, really, is in my stubborn patience with a slower, less rewarding process. 



I admit there is no - one way to build a team - but the slow stubborn process isn't a guarantee either.

Plenty of teams (Atlanta under Mike Woodson for instance) have a decent 3-4 year run from 20 something wins to 50+ build teams slow and stubborn.

MJ's Hornets.

The Bucks.

etc.

But those teams aren't NY.  They don't have the cache.  They can't pull off big Free Agents.  Or be on the short list for impending free agents.

We have - however diluted it now is - the advantage of playing in the Mecca.

Players still seem to hold being a Knick in some regard.

Its different from being an Orlando Magic,  Magi?  Mogwai?

When we CAN exploit this advantage we should always at least consider the SHOULD aspect.

That is all.
Title: Re: PS
Post by: Kam on September 27, 2018, 09:25:46 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 27, 2018, 08:18:45 PM
Apparently Courtney, Baker and our #1 would not have been a winning offer. 
   
The Minnesota Timberwolves reportedly sought Ben Simmons in a potential Jimmy Butler trade with the Philadelphia 76ers. Appearing on The Bill Simmons Podcast on Thursday, The Ringer’s Kevin O’Connor explained just how high the Timberwolves’ asking price is for their disgruntled shooting guard: “One of the things that I’ve heard from a handful of sources is that—with the Sixers for example—the initial offer that they made, the counter-offer was like, ‘We need Ben Simmons in a deal.'”
– via Bleacher Report


Nothing ventured, nothing gained. 

Meanwhile, Butler collects paychecks, and refuses to play with his team. 

FUCK

JIMMY

BUTLER

Is that Thibs/Layden talking or the owner Glen Taylor?
Title: Re: $1.99 for a limited time
Post by: Nagel on September 27, 2018, 10:15:25 PM
Quote from: Kam on September 27, 2018, 03:13:50 PM
The NBA believes it has the answer, and starting with the 2018-19 season, you’ll be able to buy portions of individual games through micro-transactions.

In a press release on Thursday, the NBA announced new offerings being added to its “NBA League Pass” program, which allows fans to watch out-of-market games over streaming services. These are being expanded to include the option for fans to buy single quarters of games, a revolutionary move that could change how fans consume live sports.

For current NBA League Pass subscribers all their viewing options will remain available, however fans can now pay $1.99 to watch from the conclusion of the third quarter until the end of the game.

how about a .25 cent option.?
Title: Re: Delay Climax
Post by: chipstern on September 27, 2018, 10:26:57 PM
Quote from: Kam on September 27, 2018, 09:24:49 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 27, 2018, 08:10:57 PM
Quote from: Kam on September 27, 2018, 07:32:12 PM
That is me on Facebook Chipper.  Howdy!

It's all good, Kam-A-Matic. 

Where we differ, well, not differ, really, is in my stubborn patience with a slower, less rewarding process. 



I admit there is no - one way to build a team - but the slow stubborn process isn't a guarantee either.

Plenty of teams (Atlanta under Mike Woodson for instance) have a decent 3-4 year run from 20 something wins to 50+ build teams slow and stubborn.

MJ's Hornets.

The Bucks.

etc.

But those teams aren't NY.  They don't have the cache.  They can't pull off big Free Agents.  Or be on the short list for impending free agents.

We have - however diluted it now is - the advantage of playing in the Mecca.

Players still seem to hold being a Knick in some regard.

Its different from being an Orlando Magic,  Magi?  Mogwai?

When we CAN exploit this advantage we should always at least consider the SHOULD aspect.

That is all.

Fair enough. 

To address one of your points. 

In what way, have you observed the clear cachet of the Knickerbockers or the allure of this major market in any free agent outreach over the past 20-25 years? 

What did it yield us? 

Joakim Noah

Amare Stoudamire

Jerome James

A trade for Carmelo Anthony, with his free agency looming, not unlike Butler, and an analogous desire to get a max contact now rather than later, wherein we eagerly gutted our team of young talent and draft choice for this once in a lifetime talent.  And thus, eliminated any hope of assembling complementary talent to so enable Anthony's talent.  What free agents did we attract during Melo's Knicks ascendancy, with all of his star power and talent, and the irrefutable allure of the MECCA--in the form of MSG and New York City. 

Did all of that star power and allure work on Grant Hill, Chris Bosh, Kevin Durant? 

So yes, there are many ways to build a contender. 

We have tried the star power and the allure route, we have overpaid for free agents and sacrificed youth and draft picks. 

And has it worked?

And so, now that we have arrived at the Sixers-Celtics trust the process, build through youth and the draft route, well, I for one would like to see us allow it proceed, without any burps and belches and back-stepping. 

That's all. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 27, 2018, 10:36:29 PM
The Strategy has worked...

when we want a guy, we have a more than fair shot at getting them,

perhaps only other team is the Lakers who can make that claim...

... the error was the targets selected.

Jerome James Joakim Noah... 

the METS sucked for years because they were afraid to give out money to a big Free Agent because of Bobby Bonilla.

Scared money don't make none.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 27, 2018, 10:43:39 PM
Good agent

https://sports.yahoo.com/report-celtics-apos-gordon-hayward-203549310.html (https://sports.yahoo.com/report-celtics-apos-gordon-hayward-203549310.html)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 27, 2018, 11:58:51 PM
Quote from: Kam on September 27, 2018, 10:36:29 PM
The Strategy has worked...

when we want a guy, we have a more than fair shot at getting them,

perhaps only other team is the Lakers who can make that claim...

... the error was the targets selected.

Jerome James Joakim Noah... 

the METS sucked for years because they were afraid to give out money to a big Free Agent because of Bobby Bonilla.

Scared money don't make none.

Targeted that LeBron James fellow, did we not? 

Rolled out the red carpet.

Since 1996, who were our free agent signings? 

Chris Childs

Andrew Lang

Allan Houston

Jerome James

Amare Stoudamire

Doesn't seem like we have been much of a destination, does it? 

Amare and Allan were legit signings, who gave us a couple of really good years before their knees gave out. 

Otherwise. 

NADA.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 28, 2018, 12:19:33 AM
Tim






Hardaway







JUNIOR!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 28, 2018, 12:25:29 AM
weren't the Knix usually capped out?

I have concerns and reservations about Butler.
But KZ & Butler gives you two of the Top 10 two-way players in the NBA.

I'd say:
LeBJ, Kawhi, Paul George, Embiid, Chris Paul,
Durant, Anthony Davis, KZ, Butler, Ben Simmons

3rd team all 2-way: Antetokounmpo, Oladipo (one good year so far), maybe Klay (but I think his D is overrated), Horford.  Guys like Covington and Middleton are next up.

Am I forgetting anyone?

Back to the Knix.
If you court two of the Top 10 best two-way players, it's not that hard to build a team around them.  Find a credible starting PG and you're in the homecourt playoff mix.  Add some pieces and you're a legit contender.  Butler would make the Knix relevant next year, and could help attract a legit FA.

Now if you don't think Fizz can handle such a dynamic.  Or the Knick team isn't ready for a top-flight vet, okay. 

I'm somewhat on the fence, but if the cost is say Courtly, Franc, and Lance, I pull the trigger.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 28, 2018, 12:29:03 AM
Quote from: chipstern on September 27, 2018, 11:58:51 PM
Quote from: Kam on September 27, 2018, 10:36:29 PM
The Strategy has worked...

when we want a guy, we have a more than fair shot at getting them,

perhaps only other team is the Lakers who can make that claim...

... the error was the targets selected.

Jerome James Joakim Noah... 

the METS sucked for years because they were afraid to give out money to a big Free Agent because of Bobby Bonilla.

Scared money don't make none.

Targeted that LeBron James fellow, did we not? 

Rolled out the red carpet.

Since 1996, who were our free agent signings? 

Chris Childs

Andrew Lang

Allan Houston

Jerome James

Amare Stoudamire

Doesn't seem like we have been much of a destination, does it? 

Amare and Allan were legit signings, who gave us a couple of really good years before their knees gave out. 

Otherwise. 

NADA.

We got JR Smith when he came back from China then we re-signed him on the cheap because of the hometown (NJ) discount.

LeBron had other plans.

Teams have diferent strengths in free agency... Lakers and NYKnicks have the allure of the Franchise Blue Bloods. the Texas and Florida teams have the lack of State Income tax. Lakers have Hollywood. LA Bron.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 28, 2018, 12:30:23 AM
And a lot is made about Butler turning 33 or whatever at the end of his deal.

LaMarcus Aldridge is 33.  He just had a pretty good year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 28, 2018, 12:41:41 AM
Butler is a high mileage 29 (heavy minutes under Thibs) and just had some knee issues.  And his game relies on athleticism more than LMA's. 

I think the last year of his max deal would be something like $42M during his age 34 campaign (but that's without looking anything up).

I also hold his bullshit attitude the past two seasons/teams against him.  But there's no question he has talent and plays hard.  Which is why you have a rumoured 20 teams asking about him.

All-Defensive 2nd team 4 of the past 5 years.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 28, 2018, 01:16:54 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 28, 2018, 12:19:33 AM
Tim Hardaway JUNIOR!!

True Dat. 

However,  I don't think we would consider Timmy as a Tier 1 Free Agent, along the lines of, oh, Klay Thompson. 

People talked about overpaying. 

Hey, it was a roll of the dice, and we wanted to put the kibosh on Atlanta matching. 

No guarantee that they would fail to match, even with those numbers. 

Nyets made big time/big money offers to Tyler Johnson and Allan Crabbe, both exceeding money Knicks proffered to Timmy. 

Miami regrets matching on RFA Tyler; Portland matched and ended up cutting their losses by trading Crabbe to the Nyets anyway. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 28, 2018, 01:26:51 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 28, 2018, 12:41:41 AM
Butler is a high mileage 29 (heavy minutes under Thibs) and just had some knee issues.  And his game relies on athleticism more than LMA's. 

I think the last year of his max deal would be something like $42M during his age 34 campaign (but that's without looking anything up).

I also hold his bullshit attitude the past two seasons/teams against him.  But there's no question he has talent and plays hard.  Which is why you have a rumoured 20 teams asking about him.

All-Defensive 2nd team 4 of the past 5 years.

Okay

Latest rumor?

Rockets making a push for Butler. 

Here is a trade that works for both teams, though Houston comes out ahead, for sure. 

Eric Gordon, JP Tucker, Brandon Knight and a #1

FOR

Jimmy Butler & Gorgui Dieng. 

Minny gets rid of Dieng and his contract, which is purportedly a priority, receive a starting SG, a solid defensive sixth man wing in PJ Tucker, and a point on Knight. 

Butler becomes Houston's starting SF. 

Paul-Harden-Butler-Anthony-Capella

Dieng off the bench at PF and C.

Perhaps some combo of Speights or Green or Carter-Williams sweetens the pot...extra draft picks...

I suppose this is a legit offer, but Minny asking Philly for Ben Simmons would signal delusions of grandeur. 

And this trade would turn Houston into a conference juggernaut, capable of nuking the likes of Minnesota for next two-three years. 

Still, only way the number work are with Gordon-Tucker-Knight and taking back Dieng. 

Perhaps if another team was involved, such as the Kings. 

Anyway, something for all of you Trader Vics to contemplate. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on September 28, 2018, 01:32:00 AM
Quote from: chipstern on September 28, 2018, 01:16:54 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 28, 2018, 12:19:33 AM
Tim Hardaway JUNIOR!!
Nyets made big time/big money offers to Tyler Johnson and Allan Crabbe, both exceeding money Knicks proffered to Timmy. 

Miami regrets matching on RFA Tyler; Portland matched and ended up cutting their losses by trading Crabbe to the Nyets anyway.

Other teams making dumb deals doesn't make THJr's deal any less ill-advised.

There were many teams that notably did not sign players to dumb deals, for example. Maybe the Celtics, not the Nets, should be the model. They never would have signed Timmy to that contract.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 28, 2018, 05:26:48 AM
I like that HOU deal.
You have to remember there's no guarantee Butler re-ups with his new team.

I'm wary of both RFA's and big/max contracts well into a player's 30's.
Both can be dangerous.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on September 28, 2018, 06:16:13 AM
I think the idea that the Knicks are an attractive team to free agents because New York is the mecca of basketball is a notion long-dead and buried. Terrible ownership, ridiculous player personnel decisions and the "nationalization" of the  NBA (i.e. you don't have to be in New York for exposure and commercial opportunity) puts paud to any such notion.

If the Knicks think (do they?) that the "New York" on the front of their jerseys gives  them an edge they'll never escape the rut they've been in. Of course as in most things with me, I think I'm good at indentifying problems but have no idea how to fix them.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 28, 2018, 08:14:43 AM
I laugh heartily at anyone who doesn't appreciate what Chris Childs brought to the Knicks

Oh, yeah - forgot - unless it was to a "winner", doesnt count.

OY.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 28, 2018, 01:43:10 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on September 28, 2018, 06:16:13 AM
I think the idea that the Knicks are an attractive team to free agents because New York is the mecca of basketball is a notion long-dead and buried. Terrible ownership, ridiculous player personnel decisions and the "nationalization" of the  NBA (i.e. you don't have to be in New York for exposure and commercial opportunity) puts paud to any such notion.

If the Knicks think (do they?) that the "New York" on the front of their jerseys gives  them an edge they'll never escape the rut they've been in. Of course as in most things with me, I think I'm good at indentifying problems but have no idea how to fix them.

You may be right.  But the last couple seasons (maybe because we can't guard anyone) I usually hear visiting players post-game interview talk about their big game in the garden and how it is a stage unlike any other in Basketball. 

Their words shape my opinion that there are some (not all) players who would relish playing here 41 times a season.

PLUS you have the CITY OF NEW YORK to live/hang out in year round.  And a lot (not all) of humans would relish living here 24/7.

So you take the Venn Diagram of players who like MSG and players who like NYC and that is not an insignificant number of players.

I think only the LA Lakers rivals that package.

That advantage has been eroded by the era of the Superteam and Players and their Agents conspiring to play with other players they like.

Thats a new thing... some blame the AAU circuit.  And also on the Shoe Contracts that rival what they get from the NBA.

But to refute your point about exposure... i am sorry but you're going to have to give me an example of the guy (Giannis, Dame Lillard, Anthony Davis, etc) who wouldn't have his profiled raised a lot higher with much more exposure if he were in a better (read: bigger) market.

And i bet if you took a poll of all the international players they would probably also want NY or LA or Chicago over say Charlotte or Memphis.
Title: My Lineup
Post by: Kam on September 28, 2018, 02:17:10 PM
Trey
Frank
Kevin
Mario
Mitch


6th man: THjr
7th man: Enes
8th man: Lee
Title: In case of emergency
Post by: Kam on September 28, 2018, 02:19:33 PM
Mudiay
Vonleh
Lance
Kornet
Title: Howdy
Post by: chipstern on September 28, 2018, 02:22:51 PM
So? 

Twenty Five Years And Counting. 

And our most recent free agents? 

Hezonja?  Vonleh?

Attracted by relationships with Scott Perry, and a desire to reinvent themselves, retool their careers. 

Still waiting on that Thoroughbred you posit would LOVE TO PLAY IN NEW YORK.

As Fizdale laid it out, if we don't create a legitimate winning culture, free agency won't matter worth a damn. 

Too many players have mainly used that "New York Allure" to drive up the price for their preferred destinations. 

Or blown us off completely as in, refusing to even consider a meeting, such as Durant. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on September 28, 2018, 02:28:11 PM
But to refute your point about exposure... i am sorry but you're going to have to give me an example of the guy (Giannis, Dame Lillard, Anthony Davis, etc) who wouldn't have his profiled raised a lot higher with much more exposure if he were in a better (read: bigger) market

Lebron James? James Harden? Kevin Durant?  Russell Westbrook?  I think your argument might work for baseball players, as MLB remains a regional sport. I don't think that's the case for today's NBA.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 28, 2018, 02:36:12 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on September 28, 2018, 02:28:11 PM
But to refute your point about exposure... i am sorry but you're going to have to give me an example of the guy (Giannis, Dame Lillard, Anthony Davis, etc) who wouldn't have his profiled raised a lot higher with much more exposure if he were in a better (read: bigger) market

Lebron James? James Harden? Kevin Durant?  Russell Westbrook?  I think your argument might work for baseball players, as MLB remains a regional sport. I don't think that's the case for today's NBA.

LeBron just went to a bigger market!  How can you use him as an example against my point?

KD escaped a small market to go to a bigger one.

Russ is an alien.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on September 28, 2018, 02:42:13 PM
Do you think Lebron going to LA is going to raise his profile?  Your question asked for examples of guys who wouldn't have a higher profile in a bigger market. I don't think those guys profiles could be any higher wherever they played. 

With a couple of nice seasons thrown in, the Knicks have been a garbage team with garbage management for years now.  "Everyone wants to play in New York" is dead.  Good management and good coaching is the way back. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 28, 2018, 02:50:02 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on September 28, 2018, 02:42:13 PM
Do you think Lebron going to LA is going to raise his profile?  Your question asked for examples of guys who wouldn't have a higher profile in a bigger market. I don't think those guys profiles could be any higher wherever they played. 

With a couple of nice seasons thrown in, the Knicks have been a garbage team with garbage management for years now.  "Everyone wants to play in New York" is dead.  Good management and good coaching is the way back.

Yes LeBron wants to be a Producer of movies.  He is doing Space Jam.  He was working on this plan for years. He wants to be a billionaire.  To him that  required being in the 2nd biggest market in the NBA.

Part of the allure of Golden State aside from Winning is the proximity to Silicon Valley and the opportunity to invest in so many tech start-ups.
Title: Knicks Window to Compete
Post by: Kam on September 28, 2018, 03:26:19 PM
Golden State's nucleus are all around 29-30 years old.  Steph and KD are 30.  Even if they keep everyone their window to win is 3 more years.

By the time the Knicks are ready to compete (not this year obviously, and next year is the first baby step) the path to winning will look different.

We don't have to build a team to beat the Warriors... but we will have somebody to target. 

Who do you think that team will be?  Boston?  Philly?  The Clippers?!
Title: From Fizz With Love
Post by: chipstern on September 28, 2018, 04:56:57 PM
Apologies to Facile & KamSandwich:

Mike Vorkunov: David Fizdale is enjoying coaching Enes Kanter. “How do you not like Enes? For me, he’s like our spirit. He keeps our gym light…And thinking about what he and his family is going through, the fact that he can come in here and still have enough energy to give to us? I love him.” pic.twitter.com/Ub0gNAImAM
http://twitter.com/MikeVorkunov/status/1045761112187252738
– via Twitter MikeVorkunov
Title: Enes is a Knick
Post by: Kam on September 28, 2018, 05:11:59 PM
I'm glad the coach likes him

He is the worst defensive C in the L
Title: JoNo wants out
Post by: Kam on September 28, 2018, 05:12:40 PM
Give back some money dude!
Title: Re: Enes is a Knick
Post by: chipstern on September 28, 2018, 05:13:49 PM
Quote from: Kam on September 28, 2018, 05:11:59 PM
I'm glad the coach likes him

He is the worst defensive C in the L

Glad Fizz is the coach and you're only the GM. 
Title: Re: My Lineup
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 28, 2018, 06:49:19 PM
Quote from: Kam on September 28, 2018, 02:17:10 PM
Trey
Frank
Kevin
Mario
Mitch


6th man: THjr
7th man: Enes
8th man: Lee

You just earned the first IGNORE of the season

1 week - see ya
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 28, 2018, 07:10:52 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 28, 2018, 01:16:54 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 28, 2018, 12:19:33 AM
Tim Hardaway JUNIOR!!

True Dat. 

However,  I don't think we would consider Timmy as a Tier 1 Free Agent, along the lines of, oh, Klay Thompson. 



I am not touching Thompson at 25 mil

Will be interesting to see what he can do if he has to be anything close to a lead guy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on September 28, 2018, 10:32:42 PM
I think the fact that he doesn't want to be the lead guy tells you everything you need to know about that question.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on September 29, 2018, 09:02:29 AM
Quote from: chipstern on September 28, 2018, 01:26:51 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 28, 2018, 12:41:41 AM
Butler is a high mileage 29 (heavy minutes under Thibs) and just had some knee issues.  And his game relies on athleticism more than LMA's. 

I think the last year of his max deal would be something like $42M during his age 34 campaign (but that's without looking anything up).

I also hold his bullshit attitude the past two seasons/teams against him.  But there's no question he has talent and plays hard.  Which is why you have a rumoured 20 teams asking about him.

All-Defensive 2nd team 4 of the past 5 years.

Okay

Latest rumor?

Rockets making a push for Butler. 

Here is a trade that works for both teams, though Houston comes out ahead, for sure. 

Eric Gordon, JP Tucker, Brandon Knight and a #1

FOR

Jimmy Butler & Gorgui Dieng. 

Minny gets rid of Dieng and his contract, which is purportedly a priority, receive a starting SG, a solid defensive sixth man wing in PJ Tucker, and a point on Knight. 

Butler becomes Houston's starting SF. 

Paul-Harden-Butler-Anthony-Capella

Dieng off the bench at PF and C.

Perhaps some combo of Speights or Green or Carter-Williams sweetens the pot...extra draft picks...

I suppose this is a legit offer, but Minny asking Philly for Ben Simmons would signal delusions of grandeur. 

And this trade would turn Houston into a conference juggernaut, capable of nuking the likes of Minnesota for next two-three years. 

Still, only way the number work are with Gordon-Tucker-Knight and taking back Dieng. 

Perhaps if another team was involved, such as the Kings. 

Anyway, something for all of you Trader Vics to contemplate.

Trade violates the CBA - Knight cannot be packaged with another player in a trade right now. Rockets can't put up a package right now where they take on Dieng.
Title: Re: JoNo wants out
Post by: thebizneverloses on September 29, 2018, 09:03:17 AM
Quote from: Kam on September 28, 2018, 05:12:40 PM
Give back some money dude!

Unless Facil is correct about being able to buy back the stretch (not my reading of the CBA), Noah needs to give back a significant amount of money to make this worthwhile for the Knicks, imo.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on September 29, 2018, 07:15:35 PM
Houston clearly not shy about going for it this year.

i would think Knight would not be in the final deal.

who knows.

i am happy we are not involved.

we are a auditioning players for the future and developing a culture.

no one has a lock on playing time until KP returns and we work him back in slowly.  very refreshing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on September 30, 2018, 01:31:47 AM
Quote from: Nagel on September 29, 2018, 07:15:35 PM
Houston clearly not shy about going for it this year.

i would think Knight would not be in the final deal.

who knows.

Again, Knight cannot be included in the deal right now as it would involve other players heading out from Houston.
Title: Re: My Lineup
Post by: thebizneverloses on September 30, 2018, 01:35:44 AM
Quote from: Kam on September 28, 2018, 02:17:10 PM
Trey
Frank
Kevin
Mario
Mitch


6th man: THjr
7th man: Enes
8th man: Lee

I think THJr and especially Enes can be written in by Sharpie; they're locks, irrespective of what Fiz says about all spots up for grabs.

I doubt Big Mitch will start the season in the rotation.

If I had to guess the opening night 9-man:

Burke/THJr/Courtly/Hezonja/Enes
Mudiay/Frank le Franc/Knox/Vonleh

It's a pretty inexperienced crew. Loads of new players, most of the guys don't know how to defend. There's skill and enthusiasm there, but I expect a very, very slow start.
Title: Re: My Lineup
Post by: chipstern on September 30, 2018, 03:50:48 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on September 30, 2018, 01:35:44 AM
Quote from: Kam on September 28, 2018, 02:17:10 PM
Trey
Frank
Kevin
Mario
Mitch


6th man: THjr
7th man: Enes
8th man: Lee

I think THJr and especially Enes can be written in by Sharpie; they're locks, irrespective of what Fiz says about all spots up for grabs.

I doubt Big Mitch will start the season in the rotation.

If I had to guess the opening night 9-man:

Burke/THJr/Courtly/Hezonja/Enes
Mudiay/Frank le Franc/Knox/Vonleh

It's a pretty inexperienced crew. Loads of new players, most of the guys don't know how to defend. There's skill and enthusiasm there, but I expect a very, very slow start.

Kanter-Hezonja-Knox-Timmy-Burke

Kornet-Thomas-Lee-Frank-Mudiay
Title: Re: My Lineup
Post by: bodiddley on September 30, 2018, 10:09:43 AM
Quote from: chipstern on September 30, 2018, 03:50:48 AM
Kanter-Hezonja-Knox-Timmy-Burke

That's about what I expect.
But man is that a terrible defensive team.
Who's your stopper on the 1st unit?  Rook Knox?  Tim Jr.?
Looks untenable.
So I wouldn't be surprised to see Lance (or Vonleh) start.

I would probably go with:
Franc - Tim Jr. - Knox - Lance - Kanter
2nd unit: Burke - Courtly - 'Zonja - Vonleh
Mud & Kornet would have to make a case for themselves or be used situationally.  Vonleh too more or less.

Quote
Kornet-Thomas-Lee-Frank-Mudiay

Don't think you can have 3 defenders all off the pine.
And our 4th defensive player, Vonleh, out of the rotation.

My Franc/Tim & Burke/Courtly pairings balances scoring with D.
Works if Tim (and Franc) have upped their ballhandling some.
Title: Re: My Lineup
Post by: chipstern on September 30, 2018, 11:16:31 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 30, 2018, 10:09:43 AM
Quote from: chipstern on September 30, 2018, 03:50:48 AM
Kanter-Hezonja-Knox-Timmy-Burke

That's about what I expect.
But man is that a terrible defensive team.
Who's your stopper on the 1st unit?  Rook Knox?  Tim Jr.?
Looks untenable.
So I wouldn't be surprised to see Lance (or Vonleh) start.

I would probably go with:
Franc - Tim Jr. - Knox - Lance - Kanter
2nd unit: Burke - Courtly - 'Zonja - Vonleh
Mud & Kornet would have to make a case for themselves or be used situationally.  Vonleh too more or less.

Quote
Kornet-Thomas-Lee-Frank-Mudiay

Don't think you can have 3 defenders all off the pine.
And our 4th defensive player, Vonleh, out of the rotation.

My Franc/Tim & Burke/Courtly pairings balances scoring with D.
Works if Tim (and Franc) have upped their ballhandling some.

I get the impression that Fizz is going to deploy a deep rotation, mix and match, with defense a deciding factor. 

Initially, we may be crappy, but the goal is to be scrappy. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 30, 2018, 02:02:47 PM
all you want defense but only i have mitch in for enes

and frank for THjr

y'all pay lip service to D

---

I'm a "The future is now" guy.

If Mitch is the future... play him now.

You can't do that in every league.  But in the NBA you can.

Why do anything half-way?   

We went young for a reason.

There are only - according to fizz- 5 low post threats in the NBA that mitch would be overmatched against.

Newsflash... so would anyone else on our squad.
Title: Re: My Lineup
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 30, 2018, 02:39:21 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 30, 2018, 11:16:31 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 30, 2018, 10:09:43 AM
Quote from: chipstern on September 30, 2018, 03:50:48 AM
Kanter-Hezonja-Knox-Timmy-Burke

That's about what I expect.
But man is that a terrible defensive team.
Who's your stopper on the 1st unit?  Rook Knox?  Tim Jr.?
Looks untenable.
So I wouldn't be surprised to see Lance (or Vonleh) start.

I would probably go with:
Franc - Tim Jr. - Knox - Lance - Kanter
2nd unit: Burke - Courtly - 'Zonja - Vonleh
Mud & Kornet would have to make a case for themselves or be used situationally.  Vonleh too more or less.

Quote
Kornet-Thomas-Lee-Frank-Mudiay

Don't think you can have 3 defenders all off the pine.
And our 4th defensive player, Vonleh, out of the rotation.

My Franc/Tim & Burke/Courtly pairings balances scoring with D.
Works if Tim (and Franc) have upped their ballhandling some.

I get the impression that Fizz is going to deploy a deep rotation, mix and match, with defense a deciding factor. 

Initially, we may be crappy, but the goal is to be scrappy.

We will win our share

IF we put the ball in the bucket

OFFENSE RULES!
Title: Re: My Lineup
Post by: chipstern on September 30, 2018, 04:36:48 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 30, 2018, 02:39:21 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 30, 2018, 11:16:31 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 30, 2018, 10:09:43 AM
Quote from: chipstern on September 30, 2018, 03:50:48 AM
Kanter-Hezonja-Knox-Timmy-Burke

That's about what I expect.
But man is that a terrible defensive team.
Who's your stopper on the 1st unit?  Rook Knox?  Tim Jr.?
Looks untenable.
So I wouldn't be surprised to see Lance (or Vonleh) start.

I would probably go with:
Franc - Tim Jr. - Knox - Lance - Kanter
2nd unit: Burke - Courtly - 'Zonja - Vonleh
Mud & Kornet would have to make a case for themselves or be used situationally.  Vonleh too more or less.

Quote
Kornet-Thomas-Lee-Frank-Mudiay

Don't think you can have 3 defenders all off the pine.
And our 4th defensive player, Vonleh, out of the rotation.

My Franc/Tim & Burke/Courtly pairings balances scoring with D.
Works if Tim (and Franc) have upped their ballhandling some.

I get the impression that Fizz is going to deploy a deep rotation, mix and match, with defense a deciding factor. 

Initially, we may be crappy, but the goal is to be scrappy.

We will win our share

IF we put the ball in the bucket

OFFENSE RULES!
Hey, nothing ventured, nothing gained. 
   
Stefan Bondy: Fizdale says he has not settled on a starting lineup for tomorrow’s game. Worth noting though the players in blue jerseys at practice: Burke, Hardaway, Knox, Hezonja, Kanter.
– via Twitter SBondyNYDN


Ever notice how getting your offense in gear influences your defense? 

Fizz wants to up the pace. 

We'll take our lumps, for sure, but I like that as a starting lineup. 

PS: Howdy, Kam: Robinson is a wonderful prospect, with a world of upside, but your are delusional if you project him beating out Kanter.  And just because Enes likes the kid, and is all in with a mentoring role, does not mean he will not kick his ass from end to end.  PROCESS?  Respect it.  Enes WANTS TO BE A KNICK.  Get over it, haters. 

PPS: Enes also a Turkish patriot, which to me is more significant than is "defensive" shortcomings.  He is a man on a young team.  Underestimate him at your peril.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 30, 2018, 04:41:38 PM
Well....its easier to play from ahead, if that is what you mean.

I think playing SMART defense is important.  Limit fouling, hold teams to 1 shot, defend the arc.

The latest lineup you posted sure looks like it is slanted toward scoring.

Fizz and Kid8 - sympatico

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 30, 2018, 04:44:24 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 30, 2018, 04:41:38 PM
Well....its easier to play from ahead, if that is what you mean.

I think playing SMART defense is important.  Limit fouling, hold teams to 1 shot, defend the arc.

The latest lineup you posted sure looks like it is slanted toward scoring.

Fizz and Kid8 - sympatico

heh

Kiid and Shaman.  Same page? 

Huh?

Strange bedfellows. 

Smart defense is 90% effort and commitment. 

PS: Very gratified to see how all of Burke's work in G League and that wonderful run he had the last month of the season has carried over.  And that competition with Frank and Emmanuel will only make us better...them, too. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 01, 2018, 07:57:52 AM
Scalabrine:

"People talk about Knox and some other guys, but THIS guy comes NBA ready.  Its only 2 games, but......"

- on MILES BRIDGES, who took the freakish on ball defending big Robert Williams off the dribble on a designed play for a key hoop late.

Scal and Isola also remind us to be careful of summer league stars, citing (MVP) Josh Hart's 2-5, -23 performance last night.

Notes 7-14 from Ingram and 8-10, 17 and 7 from McGee in 20 minutes as positives for LA - and notes all the negative +/- for LA while LBJ was at a +1.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on October 01, 2018, 11:09:42 AM
Lance and Franc are triangle left-overs and offensive liabilities.


---I would probably go with:
Franc - Tim Jr. - Knox - Lance - Kanter
2nd unit: Burke - Courtly - 'Zonja - Vonleh ---
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 01, 2018, 11:44:17 AM
We don't have a good team and Franc's a pup.
I'd like to see him get at least half a season at starting PG.
Whether that's to open the campaign or after KZ returns.
I want Franc to have a real opp to play PG with the starters.

I have both Franc and Knox starting, so our yute gets thrown in the mix and take their lumps and hopefully learn and develop.  Those two and KZ are hopefully our future.

Burke is a more advanced offensive player at this stage, but he projects as a backup PG, so I'd let him refine that role.  Though you could argue that starting now will make Burke a better backup PG when he returns to that role after the Knix get a legit starting quality PG.

Then there's also Muddy, who is an ending contract, so you need to either trade him or get him out there and see what he can do.  I'd be looking to toss Mud into any Courtly deals.  it's not going to be easy for Fizz to give minutes and confidence to Burke/Franc/Mud, especially if Courtly is primarily used at SG (if not traded).

Lance is the closest thing we have to a glue guy.  He hustles and knows what to do.  he's not overly skilled but has some 3&D qualities to him.  I like him as a steady the ship kind of guy, preferably off the bench, as our team improves.  As a starter, he provides some continuity and defense, which most of our other starting options lack.

I'm open to starting Vonleh, but he's new to the team and was terrible early in his career.  Really looked like he didn't know much about hoops.  Seems he improved as a defender and boarder last year, and I don't really know where he is now.

If we had a better team/set of starters, I wouldn't mind starting Zonja as a confidence builder.  But it seems unlikely that Knox and Zonja could defend well enough, especially paired with Kanter.

My starting lineup tosses out 2 defenders, 2 offenders and rook (with 2-way potential, but still a rook).  I get 2 young'uns court time.

Otherwise I'm amused by kam's notion that starting a 2nd round rook equates with a defensive focus. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 01, 2018, 01:15:06 PM
Only great defenders - despite and offensive woes - can project as starters, after all.

Uh-huh
Title: Expectations--We're #1?
Post by: chipstern on October 01, 2018, 02:51:24 PM
Curious

2018 NBA Draft

#9 Knox
#36 Robinson

2017 NBA Draft

#8 Ntilinkina
#44 Dotson

2015 NBA Draft

#4 Porzingis
#5 Hezonja
#7 Mudiay

2014 NBA Draft

#9 Vonleh

2013 NBA Draft

#9 Burke
#24 Hardaway

2011 NBA Draft

#3 Kanter
Title: Fizdale's Initial Starting Lineup For Monday, October 1
Post by: chipstern on October 01, 2018, 03:30:43 PM
C: Enes Kanter
PF: Lance Thomas
SF: Kevin Knox
SG: Tim Hardaway
PG: Trey Burke

Utah Jazz during the nascent days of the Eaton/Malone/Stockton Era, used to have an offensively gifted SF/PF name of Thurl Bailey. 

However, early on in his development, the Jazz used to start Mark Iavorani, a smaller and more defensively oriented SF/PF, and have Bailey, who got more cumulative minutes at SF, and offered more offensive fire power, come off the bench. 

One of the challenges Fizdale faces, is finding minutes for everyone, and divining a balance of offense and defense. 

Nothing is written in stone, vis a vis who starts, who comes off of the bench, and who finishes. 

But this lineup makes a certain amount of sense. 

Hezonja can come off of the bench to spell either Knox or Thomas at SF/PF, giving him an opportunity to find his rhythm against less daunting second unit players.  Likewise, Vonleh at PF say with Kornet at center, or, oh, say Robinson at center with Hezonja at PF. 

Having watched a number of Hezonja highlight reels from 2017-2018, when he finally saw some daylight for the Orlando Magic, I have a feeling that Perry's role of the dice might work out for Mario and the Knicks.  How his defense evolves, remains to be seen, but he is a lights out fucking shooter from the perimeter, moves well without the ball, and can create off of the dribble. 

Fingers crossed. 

Now, how Fizz deploys Frank and Emmanuel, let alone Dotson and Lee (and Trier) off of the bench, represents another interesting subtext. 

How to find minutes for everyone, minutes earned, presumably, yet keeping everyone involved and in some semblance of rhythm, is a big challenge...not to tamp down anyone's competitive fire. 

We shall see. 

Summer is gone, and the Knicks are here, and all those dog days of speculation draw to a close, as we may now have some empirical evidence as to what we've got, and how Fizz pushes everyone's buttons and manages the team. 

And can he succeed where coach after coach after coach has failed miserably--ESTABLISHING A DEFENSIVE CULTURE. 

I, personally, will be paying particular attention to opposing three point shooters, an area where other teams relished coming into the GARDEN to pad their stats and add to their highlight reels. 
Title: My lineup
Post by: Kam on October 01, 2018, 07:50:17 PM
Was who should start.  Not who I predict will start.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on October 01, 2018, 09:59:46 PM
clearly we should be the favorites in the East .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 01, 2018, 10:32:37 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 27, 2018, 05:50:07 AM
Chris Dudley enters the Kavanaugh conversation (https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2018/09/26/chris-dudley-never-saw-brett-kavanaugh-blacked-out-drunk/1436058002/).
And . . . another missed FT.

Looks like Chris protests too much...should have spent less time in bars and more time working on his free throws: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/01/us/politics/kavanaugh-bar-fight.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/01/us/politics/kavanaugh-bar-fight.html)

Title: The Fizz Kids
Post by: chipstern on October 01, 2018, 10:56:26 PM
I loves me some David Fizdale. 
Title: Re: Expectations--We're #1?
Post by: Kam on October 02, 2018, 12:11:31 AM
Quote from: chipstern on October 01, 2018, 02:51:24 PM
Curious

2018 NBA Draft

#9 Knox
#36 Robinson

2017 NBA Draft

#8 Ntilinkina
#44 Dotson

2015 NBA Draft

#4 Porzingis
#5 Hezonja
#7 Mudiay

2014 NBA Draft

#9 Vonleh

2013 NBA Draft

#9 Burke
#24 Hardaway

2011 NBA Draft

#3 Kanter

Couple of the guys listed were #2 picks.

But aside from the fact we have collected some first round talent there isn't anything particularly remarkable there

Lots of teams have first rounders and the fact is we have no Top 3 picks except Enes Kanter


Wizards:

John Wall #1 pick first rd
Bradley Beal #3 pick first rd
Otto Porter #3 pick first rd


It's not how many past first rounders you can acquire.  A patient rebuild requires a more cast-iron stomach.  And get REALLY BAD before you get good.

We (the Knicks) always play both sides of the fence.... "let's try to make the playoffs with a team going nowhere" year after year after year
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on October 02, 2018, 08:46:16 AM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on September 27, 2018, 08:43:56 PM
Taylor has options

But would you call Butler's bluff, refuse to pay him, rather than work a deal?

I would, if I didn't like the deal.

But a Brooklyn deal mentioned yesterday did seem plenty fair.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on October 02, 2018, 08:51:31 AM
Re:  our approach

A 4, 8, 9 and lets say 10 pick in successive drafts plus a great NBA vet to cash in plus tons of cap space should be plenty.

Many teams go the rock bottom route and never get good.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 02, 2018, 11:47:40 AM
Fultz playing WITH Simmons last night - Redick off the bench

Eltom Brand has said the quest is for that third big player, mentioning "Markelle" and "Dario", emphasis on Fultzie

Payton and Holiday also playing (starting) together in New O
Title: And Here's To You, Mitchell Robinson
Post by: chipstern on October 02, 2018, 12:43:35 PM
Nice effort by our Skinny Shaq last night. 

Running the floor and being in position to be the recipient of a couple of really sweet passes in the paint by Hezonja and a wonderful long lob on the run from Mudiay. 

As per his "confrontation" with Morris, I was struck by how he didn't back down, yet still kept his cool.  On the sequence in which MM got tossed, the Wizards PF was jabbering away in his ear, trying to, I don't know, if not provoke him, let the rook know who the fuck you think you messin' with, boy, and Mitchell kind of turned his back on him and refused to take the bait, and finally in walking away from the MF, he put up his hands as if to say NO MAS, with a big smile on his face as if to say, "Hey, Ref, it ain't me engaging," at which point MM got tossed. 

I was struck by what a chill, mature response that was, and how while the rook stood up for himself, he didn't take the bait. 

PS: Alonzo Trier looked very resourceful with the ball, in creating for himself, and was the one player Fizdale singled out as having a hall pass from his one second to create, nothing there, pass the ball down the line.  And Damyean Dotson looked good in OT, ringing up points.  Glad to see Baker getting a shot as well, besides the one in his eye (using his own saliva as a saline solution to re-insert his contact lenses).  My rook PG from Morehouse, Walker, was a turnover machine (and got waived today)  Still, Fizz gave him a good long look, despite clearly being ticketed for the G-League, along with everyone at the tail end of the roster, including Hicks, who looked quicker and more decisive (Vonleh looked interesting as well...bigger than I recall).  Anyway, plenty of work to do, particularly on the boards, and while one doesn't want to get all giddy over a pre-season game, I liked the pace at which The Fizz Kids are pressing the action, and how the coach is keeping everyone in the moment and involved and rooting for each other with a deep rotation. 

PPS: Waiving Walker means the Knicks can get forward Jeff Coby into camp, while still leaning on Noah to give back more money.  Can't quite gauge is Knicks told Noah not to show up or if he declined to show up, but considering the Knicks never dicked around with his money, coming off his suspension/mutual sabbatical following the Hornacek Dustup, it would seem the Knicks are committed to getting Noah to lighten up on his buyout demands/aspirations.  We shall see. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on October 02, 2018, 01:03:26 PM
the Super Mario signing may turn into one of our best deals.

the kid can play.  obviously he is not going to start once KP returns but he could be our third forward ( behind KP and Knox) capable of playing the 3 or the  4 giving us a shooter as either position.

he has a great opportunity this year to show what he can do.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 02, 2018, 01:12:11 PM
Watching some of the replay.
Tim Jr looked bad.
Uber-Kelly looked good.

Knix fouled a lot.
Knox looked good.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 02, 2018, 01:12:46 PM
Porzingis plays the 5, so Mario slots right in when Kanter leaves.

Only problem is he is on a one year deal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 02, 2018, 01:13:33 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 02, 2018, 01:12:11 PM
Watching some of the replay.
Tim Jr looked bad.
Uber-Kelly looked good.

Knix fouled a lot.
Knox looked good.

He always does
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 02, 2018, 01:30:53 PM
Just pre-season, but it'd be nice to see Tim look like a vet and play smart.

Trier has some razzle.
I always enjoy watching Ron Baker play.
Title: Re: Expectations--We're #1?
Post by: luee on October 02, 2018, 01:41:04 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 02, 2018, 12:11:31 AM
Quote from: chipstern on October 01, 2018, 02:51:24 PM
Curious

2018 NBA Draft

#9 Knox
#36 Robinson

2017 NBA Draft

#8 Ntilinkina
#44 Dotson

2015 NBA Draft

#4 Porzingis
#5 Hezonja
#7 Mudiay

2014 NBA Draft

#9 Vonleh

2013 NBA Draft

#9 Burke
#24 Hardaway

2011 NBA Draft

#3 Kanter

Couple of the guys listed were #2 picks.

But aside from the fact we have collected some first round talent there isn't anything particularly remarkable there

Lots of teams have first rounders and the fact is we have no Top 3 picks except Enes Kanter


Wizards:

John Wall #1 pick first rd
Bradley Beal #3 pick first rd
Otto Porter #3 pick first rd


It's not how many past first rounders you can acquire.  A patient rebuild requires a more cast-iron stomach.  And get REALLY BAD before you get good.

We (the Knicks) always play both sides of the fence.... "let's try to make the playoffs with a team going nowhere" year after year after year

It seems to work, last year you have Beasley and Burke producing. Salvaging a highly rated draft choice is a big deal at little cost. That is where the GM comes in. Any big redemptions on the knix in the recent past?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 02, 2018, 01:47:44 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 02, 2018, 01:30:53 PM
Just pre-season, but it'd be nice to see Tim look like a vet and paly smart.

Trier has some razzle.
I always enjoy watching Ron Baker play.

Tim only connecting on 1-6 from three. 

But 2-2 and 4-5/FT for 11 points in 12 minutes and a +5. 

Still has a tendency to hold on to the rock, at least on the possessions I saw (missed most of the first quarter).  Better to keep the ball moving around the horn and get it back in some sort of rhythm. 

Getting to the line five times in the space of 12 minutes a reasonable sign...fruit not falling from the outside, take it to the rack. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 02, 2018, 02:17:28 PM
I just hope Tim will play up to his contract and age, and it won't be another year of excuses.
With KZ out, Tim has the op to lead the team in scoring and shots.
It'd also be nice to see him lead some.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on October 02, 2018, 02:22:25 PM
Only the first PS game but KK looks like the real thing, fills up the stat line.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Pharoah on October 02, 2018, 02:23:30 PM
Hello all - are we ready for the first day of class?

Just watched last nights game.

Knox is going to be a star once he fully develops. His ability to grab a rebound and push the pace will lead to a lot of fast break points we were missing last season. I like how aggressive he was going after boards and the jumper looked smooth. He could end up leading the team in scoring this season until KP comes back.

Robinson showed what we saw in summer league against actual NBA talent. This kid is a game changer and I'm excited to see how he develops. Loved seeing him get under Morris' skin and show no fear. He will be a nuisance for opposing bigs. I can't wait to see what a Robinson and KP front court looks like.

Frank played his game which is fine by me. The team is just better when he is on the court because of his defense and making the right plays. We dont need him to be an offensive juggernaut to be successful. I did like that pull up 3 in transition during the 3rd quarter run. He has a knack for hitting big shots.

I really wish THJ would stop shooting so many quick pull up 3s. He is so good when he uses his athleticism to get to the basket. He should play more of a Dwayne Wade type of game.

Kanter doing what Kanter does. We know what he will bring this season. Was hoping to see that jumper he has been working on but he didn't really play much this game.

Trey didn't have the best game but I am still confident in him being the starting PG this season. He will make sure to establish a high pace and get this team running in transition. Love how he finds a way to get to the rim and find his spots on the floor.

Man I want to see Mudiay succeed but I'm losing faith he has what it takes to take the game serious enough to be an impact player. He is still doing to much instead of using a simple move to finish. He constantly puts himself in worse spots then he should be which result in crazy layups and pass outs. His mistakes are coachable but is he?

I think Hezonia is going to fit perfectly on this team in a high pace system as he becomes more comfortable with his teammates. I want to see him starting at some point.

Lance looks fully healthy and determined to start the season on a good note. Hopefully his 3 point shooting will be back to where it was a few seasons ago. I like him as a leader for this young team.

Trier is most definitely an NBA caliber player. He will carve himself a role off the bench for this team.

Vonleh is a straight up bully beast. Smith got the better of him a couple of times but Vonleh pushed him around like a small child. His ability to pound it down low and still knock down the 3 is nice off the bench. Showed off some nice handles as well on one play as well. Give me the occasional Vonleh-Kanter bully front court please.

Dotson will have his ups and down but he sure has confidence in himself. He looked better this game than he did all of preseason. He has a place on this team.

Love me some Ron Baker. He usually has the least amount of natural talent on the floor but always puts himself in the right place, makes the right reads and just plays hard. Keep him on this team! We need his IQ to rub off on the young guys. Baker will make a great coach someday if he chooses to go that route when his playing days are done.

I like Kornet but I just dont see him beating out Vonleh for a spot.

The rest of the guys can go work on their games in Westchester.
Title: Fort Knox
Post by: chipstern on October 02, 2018, 03:41:40 PM
Yes, Kevin Knox. 

(https://cdn.newsday.com/polopoly_fs/1.21315223.1538282287!/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_768/image.jpg)

My Goodness. 

(https://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/140508-joe-louis-eisenstaedt-crop.jpg?w=720)

NOTE: Is it just me, or does Kevin Knox look like a young Joe Louis Barrow on stilts?  

To those still obsessing over Timmy and Ron's contracts and reflexively calling out Mills and Perry as idiots?

* The Anthony Trade

* Trey Burke

* DAVID FIZDALE

* Kevin Knox

* Mitchell Robinson

* Alonzo Trier

* Mario Hezonja

* The Butler Trade

Mills and Perry looked at last year's personnel and coaching staff, decided we were not athletic enough to compete and needed a new direction in terms of leadership going forward. 

We need to see more of Mudiay and Vonleh, but I was encouraged by what I saw with both.  Mudiay still seems confounding in terms of finishing, but I liked his energy, his intensity, how he pushed the pace and how he teamed with French Frank.  Vonleh looks to be a legit physical presence and rebounder with a good motor.  So those two moves could also work out on the + side.

Don't know if there is even a roster space for Hicks, but he looks to have progressed in terms of speed and focus.  And Fizz obviously really likes Trier and showed a lot of 3-guard looks last night. 

C: Kanter, Robinson, [NOAH]
C/PF: Porzingis, Kornet
PF/SF: Thomas, Vonleh, Hicks
SF/PF: Knox, Hezonja
SG/SF: Hardaway, Lee, Dotson, Trier
PG/SG: Burke, Ntilikina, Mudiay, Baker

Looks like Hicks & Trier, our 2-Way/G-League Contracts could be Westchester Bound. 

Unless it comes down to a Baker or Trier decision.  And Baker showed good energy and toughness last night.  So...oh, and we have yet to hear from Courtney Lee, a solid veteran presence, in any event...though obviously he has trade value. 

Also, Noah needs to be resolved before opening night, right?  Contract still a factor in the Final Fifteen. 

Last fall, Carmelo's situation did not get resolved until what, a day or two before the beginning of training camp? 

So who knows what machinations remain from our freckle-faced GM, Commodore Perry. 
Title: Consistency
Post by: Kam on October 02, 2018, 04:08:21 PM
With all young and developing players you will see flashes of potential and suffer their mistakes. 
And our whole team is young basically.
And they don't have a lot of experience playing as a unit. 
And its the first pre-season game. 
First time going against opposing coaching and opposing players.

So i'm not going to make any statements about anyone off one game.
But i thought Knox looked bigger than he did in SL.
And Lance looks the part of leader, filling out the uniform, all grown up now.

The offense and the defense will both improve with more reps.
Let's look for and demand consistency out of the 8-10 man rotation of guys. 
If 9 and 10 aren't being consistent rotate in 11 and 12.
Title: Re: Consistency
Post by: chipstern on October 02, 2018, 04:56:07 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 02, 2018, 04:08:21 PM
With all young and developing players you will see flashes of potential and suffer their mistakes. 
And our whole team is young basically.
And they don't have a lot of experience playing as a unit. 
And its the first pre-season game. 
First time going against opposing coaching and opposing players.

So i'm not going to make any statements about anyone off one game.
But i thought Knox looked bigger than he did in SL.
And Lance looks the part of leader, filling out the uniform, all grown up now.

The offense and the defense will both improve with more reps.
Let's look for and demand consistency out of the 8-10 man rotation of guys. 
If 9 and 10 aren't being consistent rotate in 11 and 12.

I believe Fizz is inclined to go deep into his bench.

A) To push the pace and keep fresh greyhounds on the floor

B) To keep everyone's head in the game and to never take his foot off the pedal, vis a vis, competition

C) To hold out his trump card, which is DEFENSE, and the need to play it. 

PS: I was really proud of our three rookies last night.  Trier is a sleeper who reminds me of, don't laugh, Dwayne Wade, in terms of being able to create his own shot.  Robinson is just a freak, and I dare say Fizz wakes up in the middle of the night wondering what he did to deserve such a gift from the basketball Gods...and who plays with a little bit of a chip on his shoulder.  And Fort Knox?  Above and beyond his talent, which is everything John Calipari said it was, Kevin Know is COACHABLE.  Fizz keeps tossing challenges his way, and Kevin responds.  Given, he is still only 19, and has many BIG CHALLENGES and SLAP DOWNS a-coming, but he is the kind of kid who will wipe the custard pie from his face, come roaring down the floor, and answer back.  Kevin is MATURE beyond his years, and apros my obsessions with keeping our #1 picks and ignoring shiny objects, assuming KP takes the year off, or least ways, spends the season healing only to come back in the final few weeks a la Bernard King, Kevin Knox has the game and the aspirational maturity to emerge as a team leader.  FINALLY, A BIT OF LUCK. Luck being the residue of design.  RESPECT THE PROCESS.  P-A-T-I-E-N-C-E. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on October 02, 2018, 06:48:26 PM
I can see Bo at the Garden

"C Mon Tim play up to your age!"

Heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on October 02, 2018, 06:51:04 PM
Still have no idea why anyone thinks Porzingis will take the year or even half a year off.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 02, 2018, 07:57:54 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on October 02, 2018, 06:51:04 PM
Still have no idea why anyone thinks Porzingis will take the year or even half a year off.

Perhaps because he has the luxury of doing so. 

The Knicks have factored that in. 

Also, consider how it could benefit him for the team to divine a legitimate up tempo style and winning culture, and him airlift in as if, not a savior, but, a gifted free agent. 

No, I do not see Kristaps staying away if he feels ready and the doctors give him the AOK, but there is something to be said for letting the soup simmer a while, before adding the meat.

Again, let our pups develop a legit chemistry, and not be looking over their shoulders for The Savior. 

LesterDawg, who is the forum Bernard King Scholar, would know.  How many games did The King come back to play at the tail end of his TWO YEAR REHAB? 

Missed 23 games at the tail end of the 1984-1985 season in which he got injured and was averaging 32.5 ppg (Cartwright was out with his foot injury).

All of the following year. 

1986-1987, came back for the final six games. 

For KP, I'd day a number of factors play into the team's decision, such as, are we a playoff or a lottery team? 

Anyway, we shall see, and Kevin Knox has all the motivation in the world to step up to be the bell cow in KP's absence, and for the team to develop a template for him to step into. 

I am in no damn rush.  That was a nasty injury. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 02, 2018, 09:05:05 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 02, 2018, 07:57:54 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on October 02, 2018, 06:51:04 PM
Still have no idea why anyone thinks Porzingis will take the year or even half a year off.

LesterDawg, who is the forum Bernard King Scholar, would know.  How many games did The King come back to play at the tail end of his TWO YEAR REHAB? 

Missed 23 games at the tail end of the 1984-1985 season in which he got injured and was averaging 32.5 ppg (Cartwright was out with his foot injury).

All of the following year. 

1986-1987, came back for the final six games. 



And I was in the Garden the night he came back :)

Maybe I'll try to be there for KP's return...3 decades later, yow...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 02, 2018, 09:05:39 PM
YOW!

** yeah, I'm not in a rush either, been doing this for 5 decades, can wait til he's good and ready.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 02, 2018, 09:52:38 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on October 02, 2018, 09:05:39 PM
YOW!

** yeah, I'm not in a rush either, been doing this for 5 decades, can wait til he's good and ready.

Good

&

READY
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 02, 2018, 11:03:25 PM
Good to have ya back, Pharoah

What's a crazy pass out?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 03, 2018, 12:00:08 AM
"(Ron Baker) usually has the least amount of talent on the floor."

Well..... he is white.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 03, 2018, 02:25:15 AM
Ron Baker has a solid all-around game.
Nothing stands out, but no great flaws either.
I like his hustle and smarts.

As for Tim, some guys develop late.  Usually at PG and C which have extra responsibilities.  But wings tend to find their groove relatively early and stick with it.  Except for those guys you can see improving every year with a definite upward trajectory. There are probably exceptions.

Tim really needs to expand his game (he's shown flashes) and develop consistency.  I'm concerned he's going to be 26 then 28 then 30 and still erratic.  Needs to stay healthy too.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 03, 2018, 09:25:52 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 03, 2018, 02:25:15 AM
Ron Baker has a solid all-around game.
Nothing stands out, but no great flaws either.
I like his hustle and smarts.

As for Tim, some guys develop late.  Usually at PG and C which have extra responsibilities.  But wings tend to find their groove relatively early and stick with it.  Except for those guys you can see improving every year with a definite upward trajectory. There are probably exceptions.

Tim really needs to expand his game (he's shown flashes) and develop consistency.  I'm concerned he's going to be 26 then 28 then 30 and still erratic.  Needs to stay healthy too.

Really at this point, signs point toward a J.R.-lite. Not crazy, but erratic and insecure with flashes of the good stuff, much less talented than J.R. however. He may surprise us and mature, may produce at some point if surrounded by strong leadership on the floor (we don't have that now), but whoever posited him this summer as potential leader himself for the younger players was out of his f'n head.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 03, 2018, 09:34:36 AM
Trying to ignore the incessant knocking of Hardaway

Last year when THJ had the awesome ten, fifteen game run you were mostly silent.

heh

Simply stated - Hardaway does things on the court that coaches look for.

Quick first step, beat a man - score or  pass off, start the ball rotation for the open J

Advance the ball quickly, leading to a quick opp.

Get in the passing lane, muck up an opponent's set, even if not done 100% technically proper

And yes - VOLUME score.

NONE of this other than the points per minute is statline stuff.

But go ahead - focus on the shooting % and call Tim a  "poor defender" all year.  Its cool.  Its now expected of you

Even when his % gets well above acceptable levels and he is (easily) in the top 40 in league scoring you will be calling him out for his contract or some other crap.

Oh well, just another year on the forum.  Tell me again about Frank's long arms.  (oy)

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 03, 2018, 09:43:45 AM
Between Oct. 29 and Jan. 30, Hardaway averaged 19.2 points, 4.6 rebounds, 3.2 assists, 1.4 steals, and 2.6 three-point field goals made on a slash line of .456/.363/.802.

In the 21 games that followed Hardaway’s early February woes, he averaged 19.7 points on a slash line of .448/.338/.891.

If one combines those 46 games, Hardaway averaged 19.5 points, 4.2 rebounds, 2.9 assists, 1.2 steals, and 2.6 three-point field goals made on a slash line of .452/.351/.839. Those averages would certainly warrant the contract he was given, or at least something close to it.



https://dailyknicks.com/2018/07/24/new-york-knicks-quick-write-tim-hardaway-jr/ (https://dailyknicks.com/2018/07/24/new-york-knicks-quick-write-tim-hardaway-jr/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 03, 2018, 09:55:39 AM
Lakers chose WAGNER over Mitchell Robinson

"I didn't even know there was a Mitchell on their team," Morris said. “He’s a stupid-ass rookie talking too much... I'm supposed to be a bigger person, but what he said crossed the line as a man."



May be why.  And why Mitch didnt want to go to college, where you are expected to behave.

Character, young fellows.

Knicks got their athlete.  But.........CHARACTER counts - and I am not even willing to call this a work in progress.  I think many teams may have passed because of this.

Isaac BONGA  sure looks good about now.....as does Chimeze Metu
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 03, 2018, 10:09:49 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on October 03, 2018, 09:25:52 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 03, 2018, 02:25:15 AM
Ron Baker has a solid all-around game.
Nothing stands out, but no great flaws either.
I like his hustle and smarts.

As for Tim, some guys develop late.  Usually at PG and C which have extra responsibilities.  But wings tend to find their groove relatively early and stick with it.  Except for those guys you can see improving every year with a definite upward trajectory. There are probably exceptions.

Tim really needs to expand his game (he's shown flashes) and develop consistency.  I'm concerned he's going to be 26 then 28 then 30 and still erratic.  Needs to stay healthy too.

Really at this point, signs point toward a J.R.-lite. Not crazy, but erratic and insecure with flashes of the good stuff, much less talented than J.R. however. He may surprise us and mature, may produce at some point if surrounded by strong leadership on the floor (we don't have that now), but whoever posited him this summer as potential leader himself for the younger players was out of his f'n head.

Not too many true "leaders" in this sport, Les.  Tim's gonna play hard, produce.   Others have to take care of their own shit.  If his effort rubs off.......... hell - the young guys should be giving effort anyway.  Not sure what it is you want to be taught.  How to dress on the road, maybe?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 03, 2018, 10:37:24 AM
Who made a higher percentage of 2-point shots last year -

Tim Hardaway Jr or Jayson Tatum?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 03, 2018, 11:14:32 AM
Mario could take Hardaway’s starting spot by the end of preseason. Dotson could as well, though that seems less likely.

Kanter, Thomas, and Knox are far along in locking up starting spots. The backcourt right now seems more up for grabs.

Character is a big reason why MitchRob will be our long term starter along side KP, displacing Kanter.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 03, 2018, 11:20:36 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 03, 2018, 10:09:49 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on October 03, 2018, 09:25:52 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 03, 2018, 02:25:15 AM
Ron Baker has a solid all-around game.
Nothing stands out, but no great flaws either.
I like his hustle and smarts.

As for Tim, some guys develop late.  Usually at PG and C which have extra responsibilities.  But wings tend to find their groove relatively early and stick with it.  Except for those guys you can see improving every year with a definite upward trajectory. There are probably exceptions.

Tim really needs to expand his game (he's shown flashes) and develop consistency.  I'm concerned he's going to be 26 then 28 then 30 and still erratic.  Needs to stay healthy too.

Really at this point, signs point toward a J.R.-lite. Not crazy, but erratic and insecure with flashes of the good stuff, much less talented than J.R. however. He may surprise us and mature, may produce at some point if surrounded by strong leadership on the floor (we don't have that now), but whoever posited him this summer as potential leader himself for the younger players was out of his f'n head.

Not too many true "leaders" in this sport, Les.  Tim's gonna play hard, produce.   Others have to take care of their own shit.  If his effort rubs off.......... hell - the young guys should be giving effort anyway.  Not sure what it is you want to be taught.  How to dress on the road, maybe?

I'm not saying he's formed, but stating honestly what I see before my eyes. Hints of a leaky head, but no definitive proof. Two times in his career he's begun to face real NBA pressure — Hawks playoffs and Knicks scramble for the playoffs last year, he's disappeared — That is WAY TOO SHORT to be called a track record, and I am by no means predicting. He's had some good stretches. He needs a good season. Love to see him have one.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 03, 2018, 12:33:19 PM
Hardaway won’t stop a team from treading water. He might even be a slightly above average player. Nothing wrong with Tim as long as you keep your expectations low.
Title: Kiid
Post by: chipstern on October 03, 2018, 12:37:48 PM
I found your breakdown of Timmy compelling.

I found your dismissal of Robinson.  BIZARRE. 

Were we watching the same game? 

Character? 

Whatever Robinson said to upset MM, in the end, he responded to Morris' schoolyard taunts by walking away.  MM got tossed.  Very mature. 

But then, we have a standing watch, do we not, in which you are well documented as pooh-poohing forum enthusiasm for our bean pole, having asserted as to how Robinson was headed for G-League, right? 

Wagner was a nice collegiate.  I liked him. 

Think the Lakers might want a Mulligan? 

We shall see. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 03, 2018, 12:42:23 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 03, 2018, 09:43:45 AM
If one combines those 46 games, Hardaway averaged 19.5 points, 4.2 rebounds, 2.9 assists, 1.2 steals, and 2.6 three-point field goals made on a slash line of .452/.351/.839. Those averages would certainly warrant the contract he was given, or at least something close to it.

So for half a season he was almost an average 3-point shooter.
(I think league average is up to 36% now).
And that's supposed to be his strength.
So I guess he earned half his salary ...

Really if his shot selection improved, his %'s would be up, probably his confidence too.  He is streaky and can get hot.  But it doesn't last.  He's also equally slump prone.  A legit PG that could help Tim's game. 

If Tim's going to make any strides, this year and next are crucial.  Funny, I also had a JEarl comparison in my head but decided not to stir things up by typing it out.  Probably he's just best as a 3rd option (or a bench Lou Williams/Craw type role). 

Otherwise, I'll have to keep an eye out for how meaningful his boards and assists are.  And look for him busting up set plays with his defensive acumen.  Hopefully he stops getting beat on backdoor baseline cuts this year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on October 03, 2018, 01:45:49 PM
Hardaway's biggest problem, going back to Michigan, has been consistency. He'll give you months, he'll give you bad ones. Not games, months.
Title: Re: Kiid
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 03, 2018, 03:05:08 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 03, 2018, 12:37:48 PM
I found your breakdown of Timmy compelling.

I found your dismissal of Robinson.  BIZARRE. 

Were we watching the same game? 

Character? 

Whatever Robinson said to upset MM, in the end, he responded to Morris' schoolyard taunts by walking away.  MM got tossed.  Very mature. 

But then, we have a standing watch, do we not, in which you are well documented as pooh-poohing forum enthusiasm for our bean pole, having asserted as to how Robinson was headed for G-League, right? 

Wagner was a nice collegiate.  I liked him. 

Think the Lakers might want a Mulligan? 

We shall see.

I didnt watch the game
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 03, 2018, 03:08:00 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on October 03, 2018, 11:20:36 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 03, 2018, 10:09:49 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on October 03, 2018, 09:25:52 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 03, 2018, 02:25:15 AM
Ron Baker has a solid all-around game.
Nothing stands out, but no great flaws either.
I like his hustle and smarts.

As for Tim, some guys develop late.  Usually at PG and C which have extra responsibilities.  But wings tend to find their groove relatively early and stick with it.  Except for those guys you can see improving every year with a definite upward trajectory. There are probably exceptions.

Tim really needs to expand his game (he's shown flashes) and develop consistency.  I'm concerned he's going to be 26 then 28 then 30 and still erratic.  Needs to stay healthy too.

Really at this point, signs point toward a J.R.-lite. Not crazy, but erratic and insecure with flashes of the good stuff, much less talented than J.R. however. He may surprise us and mature, may produce at some point if surrounded by strong leadership on the floor (we don't have that now), but whoever posited him this summer as potential leader himself for the younger players was out of his f'n head.

Not too many true "leaders" in this sport, Les.  Tim's gonna play hard, produce.   Others have to take care of their own shit.  If his effort rubs off.......... hell - the young guys should be giving effort anyway.  Not sure what it is you want to be taught.  How to dress on the road, maybe?

I'm not saying he's formed, but stating honestly what I see before my eyes. Hints of a leaky head, but no definitive proof. Two times in his career he's begun to face real NBA pressure — Hawks playoffs and Knicks scramble for the playoffs last year, he's disappeared — That is WAY TOO SHORT to be called a track record, and I am by no means predicting. He's had some good stretches. He needs a good season. Love to see him have one.

All indications are that Hardaway Jr is a "pro's pro".  Works diligently at his craft, respects fans and the press, good teammate.

I think you should proceed accordingly with him.  That's all.  Paint a nicer pic.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 03, 2018, 03:10:05 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 03, 2018, 11:14:32 AM
Mario could take Hardaway’s starting spot by the end of preseason. Dotson could as well, though that seems less likely.




Troll.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 03, 2018, 03:14:21 PM
I didnt know Knicks were in a playoff hunt last year - thanks

But my numbers show Hardaway Jr averaged 20 PPG in games 59-79, shooting 45%

DNP last three games.

As you were......
Title: Re: Kiid
Post by: chipstern on October 03, 2018, 03:55:57 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 03, 2018, 03:05:08 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 03, 2018, 12:37:48 PM
I found your breakdown of Timmy compelling.

I found your dismissal of Robinson.  BIZARRE. 

Were we watching the same game? 

Character? 

Whatever Robinson said to upset MM, in the end, he responded to Morris' schoolyard taunts by walking away.  MM got tossed.  Very mature. 

But then, we have a standing watch, do we not, in which you are well documented as pooh-poohing forum enthusiasm for our bean pole, having asserted as to how Robinson was headed for G-League, right? 

Wagner was a nice collegiate.  I liked him. 

Think the Lakers might want a Mulligan? 

We shall see.

I didnt watch the game

Now THERE'S a shocker. 

Making you uniquely qualified to comment disparagingly on Mitchell Robinson's "character". 

Heh?

Character + Blackness = PUTDOWN

Character + Whiteness = WAGNER

Query?

Which one actually made a contribution to their team's preseason game? 

Heh2

Specious Comments + Absurd Assertions = Kiid Rock Conclusions
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on October 03, 2018, 06:54:50 PM
Lay off the reefer, Boog.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 03, 2018, 07:01:57 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on October 03, 2018, 06:54:50 PM
Lay off the reefer, Boog.

Lay off the balderdash, Broom.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 03, 2018, 07:15:25 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 03, 2018, 03:14:21 PM
I didnt know Knicks were in a playoff hunt last year - thanks

But my numbers show Hardaway Jr averaged 20 PPG in games 59-79, shooting 45%

DNP last three games.

As you were......

LOL, not 59-79...BEFORE KP went down, and we we're looking at #8 from the other side. THJ laid turd after turd after turd.  Once nothing was even remotely meaningful anymore, he could go back to giving us something tasty once in a while.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 03, 2018, 08:42:00 PM
Breen in midseason (homer) form

"Knicks ERUPT for 33 points in the second quarter"
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 03, 2018, 10:25:00 PM
The Hardaway love is a mystery. We're all pulling from him. But he was disappointing in his first stint with the Knicks, and he was disappointing last year. The big issue is consistency — it comes up with almost everyone who watched him play game after game. But there's also the question of WHEN he makes points and his capacity for clutch basketball. I haven't seen much of that. Maybe when he was playing for Atlanta?
Title: Trier & Dotson
Post by: chipstern on October 03, 2018, 10:50:49 PM
Damn. 

A #2 pick and an undrafted 2-way contract. 

Playing with confidence and attitude. 

Some nice aggression from Ron and Frank as well.  Trey as well.  Timmy up and down.  Mudiay & Hezonja seemed spooked. 

PS: Enes with 22 & 20, but let's hear about his defense.  Coach seemed to like it.  Go figure. 
Title: Re: Trier & Dotson
Post by: chipstern on October 03, 2018, 10:53:06 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 03, 2018, 10:50:49 PM
Damn. 

A #2 pick and an undrafted 2-way contract. 

Playing with confidence and attitude. 

Some nice aggression from Ron and Frank as well.  Trey as well.  Timmy up and down.  Mudiay and Hezonja seemed spooked. 

PS: Enes with 22 & 20, but let's hear about his defense.  Coach seemed to like it.  Go figure.

Came back with some tenacity after a desultory first quarter.  Getting after it on defense.  Okay, the Nets.  Pelicans at home on Friday, surely representing a more formidable challenge.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on October 04, 2018, 01:28:05 AM
Watching yanks but looking at knix stats wow. The Alonzo-Enes show. How can you start and play 18 even in preseason without scoring a single point? Fabulous job the past two years beating the bushes for talent.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 04, 2018, 01:32:24 AM
One Knick who knows where the bodies are buried (https://apnews.com/86ec9d89d4d34579b528845f5f8c1642/Cemetery-case-puts-property-rights-issue-before-high-court).

Warning: nothing to do with this forum
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 04, 2018, 01:48:21 AM
Catching a replay.
First play of the game, Breen says, Hardaway on Crabbe.
Tim makes a show of defending. Crabbe passes off.
Then simply drifts behind the ball handler, Tim gets totally lost and is about 10 feet below the ball, Crabbe with a wide open 3.
Crabbe gets another wide open shot a few plays later.
A little later Tim drifts off his man in the weakside corner, then totally loses sight of his guy.  Ball gets trapped on the strong side and Burke steals. But if Nets were able to swing it out, Tim was 20 feet from his man and trapped in behind two other players.
Way to D, Tim.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 04, 2018, 01:49:06 AM
Kurcus and LeVert the most intriguing and impactful Nets. Russell is almost average which is not good enough at all. He should play behind Dinwiddie and try to be meaningful against second units.

Mario and Manny are the least together of the projected rotation guys. Baker is clearly ahead of Mudiay if no one else. Dotson should have all of Mudiay’s minutes. Trier should have either Baker or Mudiay’s spot. Baker at least makes defensive plays between missed shots and turnovers so I’m voting dump Mudiay. Allen can fill the two-way spot.

Lance and KKnox can can eat the regular season skill forward minutes till Mario gets under control.

Kanter and Robinson are a very nice tandem. When we add KP that will be one hell of a frontcourt.

Backcourt pecking order so far for those who’ve played is Frank, Trier, Dotson, Hardaway, Burke, Allen, Baker, Mudiay. Baker and Allen are actually pretty close.

I can’t wait to see Frank, Knox, and Robinson together. That’s 3/5 of our death lineup so Fizz might be saving it for the regular season. Robinson, Vonleh, Knox, Dotson (or Trier), and Frank.

Who did Frank remind you of on his first dunk?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 04, 2018, 02:59:18 AM
I like LaVert.
Trier has a LaVert game with better jump shooting.
Trier quite a good 1-on-1 scorer,
Useful when you have a guy off the bench who can get his own shot.

I found it interesting how both Trier and Burke were trying to ram their shoulder into guys on layup attempts.  With mixed results.  Trier once knocked LaVert completely off the play.  Wonder if that's a point of emphasis by the Knix for the Guards.  Fizz said he was going to drill on finishing.  Seems like something Mud could use, as he's strong (and has trouble finishing).  Less good for small Burke.

Speaking of Mud, he kind of looks lost.  Needs to play up to his NBA years.  And is Zonja a mistake player? 

MitchRob is raw but interesting.
Blocks some shots,  Fouls a bit.
Needs to be ready for dish off passes inside.
As a 10 min a night backup C, he should be useful.

Kanter looked in midseason form.
For Nets, DMC looked disinterested in pre-season.
Dudley looks chubby.
I forgot they added Edavis.  Very solid role player.  Good pickup.

Bad all-around game for Tim.  Just pre-season, but his D was inattentive, and did nada on O.

Frank did well.  Good D, nice drive-n-dunk, a 3 ball.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 04, 2018, 03:14:37 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 04, 2018, 01:49:06 AM
Who did Frank remind you of on his first dunk?

Darrell Walker?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 04, 2018, 03:18:52 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 03, 2018, 08:42:00 PM
Breen in midseason (homer) form
"Knicks ERUPT for 33 points in the second quarter"

After having trouble scoring in the 1Q (11 points through the first 10 mins), they did erupt.  Plus when you're with Clyde you tend to slip in creative words.

Actually what I like is that the Knick broadcasters aren't big homers like most others.  They mention Knick flaws and praise the other teams good plays/players. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Pharoah on October 04, 2018, 11:33:41 AM
    Game two has come and gone, leaving us with a lot of hype for the youngsters and a sinking feeling about some of the reclamation projects. Usually, you get rookies who visibly appear to need time to get comfortable but our guys have chips on their shoulders. These kids should get minutes, especially while Hezonja and Mudiay are making MORE mistakes with their own opportunities. The Knicks have their young core and every effort should be made to focus on it. On the skeptical side, this was an iso-heavy and one pass before a FGA offense. I like the "anyone can attack" unpredictable offense concept; but it's not unpredictable when guys are just taking turns attacking a basic pick and roll. Game one was much more fluid and Iso Zo was obnoxiously effective so withhold judgement but let's keep an eye on that.

The Standouts:
    Allonzo Trier: 20 points in the 1st half matched with NBA caliber players all along (Crabbe, Levert and Carroll with Allen in the paint). Trier isolated A LOT, but that's because no one could stop him from getting to the rim. My theme for this kid has been his ability to get to the line and it showed again (8/8 on free throws). He's not without flaws. Defensively, he shines at times but has lapses that pushed him to 5 more fouls. I also don't trust his vision or passing; though he did seem mindful of passing, it felt like his mind was made up to pass before the play unfolded and that led to some shaky passes. But this is an NBA scorer through and through with serious upside and I'm ready to see the Knicks make space for him and sign him for real to get bird rights. 25 points, 1 assist, 4 boards in 26 minutes; he also flashed the chase down block ability that Fiz kept tracking.

    Frank Ntilikina: By the time Frank punched a Spencer Dinwiddie driving lay-up attempt into the third row; he'd already dunked on Allen Crabbe, hit a running jumper off a spin into the lane and knocked down a three pointer. The youngster showed flashes of scoring at every level while taking his defense to a higher level than his already high standard. He floated in and out of ball handling duty again, which was frustrating because the Knicks looked better when Frank brought the ball up period. Every other ball handler seemed too focused on scoring, Frank would throw a simple swing pass and suddenly the defense was off balance so the second ball handler could effectively attack. 9 points, 2 boards, an assist, 2 blocks and a steal doesn't do justice to how much impact he had as he ratcheted his intensity up...big time game and he's not much older than Pablo Sanchez was in Backyard Baseball.

    Enes Kanter: I've come to accept that Kanter is who he is. He's a flawed defender that could use a rim protector at PF to cover for his slow feet and forgettable timing. But once you get past that, he's a dominant post player who really does eat up the glass and the defensive effort has at least been there. 22 points and 20 boards...that's undeniable. He gives these guys a lot of second chances and wore down an undersized front line. I like him off the bench moreso than starting, but if he's gonna drop 20/20 games then I may have to re-evaluate even as a defense snob. Oh yeah; he actually attempted a couple of three pointers and I don't know how I feel about it.

    The rest of cast:
    Mitch: The iso heavy play of the ball handlers meant we didn't get the rim running chaos (a sprain ankle after 10 minutes of play didn't help). In spite of that, his presence as a rim protector was evident out the gate. He ran down and blocked a three point attempt just like Summer League and even saved the ball from going out of bounds. 2 points, 2 boards and 2 blocks but with 4 fouls in that 10 minute span. Having him planted behind Frank up top gives the Knicks promise as a tough, defensive team for the foreseeable future.

    Knox: Another victim of everybody taking turns looking for their own, this was a subdued performance for the big lottery pick. 7 points, 4 boards, 1 assist, steal and block to 2 TO's while shooting 3/6 from the field. His three misses were all 3 pointers and his jumper from range will take time to develop consistency but he's got plenty of time and seems willing to work on it. More importantly, he flashed some really solid defense at times and having two-way potential is big for someone with such a versatile game. I'm still in awe at Knox being able to grab a board and take it coast to coast at 6'10 and even younger than Frank.

    Burke: He made the most of his touches but the share the ball mechanics of this system means that he's not able to be in 24/7 attack mode. 9 points, 3 assists, 3 boards and 2 steals in 19 minutes but for some reason the performance felt forgettable. His defensive limitations are what they are and he's producing plenty to outweigh that. I can't explain my lack of enthusiasm for him other than that he mostly vanishes as an offball guard and the system places him off ball way more than last year.

    Lance Thomas: I'll take that 0/3 performance over him forcing things every single time out. Lance had 2 boards and 1 assist in 18 minutes but brought his intangibles for the second straight game. His 1 assist came from driving the baseline with his head up and that head up part has been missing in the past. Anyway, I'm feeling positive vibes for the man as he looks like he'll get the right role for a change...15 mpg and not going over 20 where his flaws begin to really show up.

    THJ: 9 pts, 1 assist, 2 boards, 3 TOs on 3/11 from the field. I'm hoping it's cobwebs. The times when he tries to assert himself, it's not working out and he just hasn't gelled with the system yet imo. I'm trying to be patient...but he should drive more.

    Mario: You know when someone shows up to a pick-up game in a full team uniform with an arm sleeve, wristband, knee pads and every other accessory...that guy is gonna try to do too much when he gets the rock guaranteed. That's where we've found ourselves with Hezonja after two games. He's pressing and trying to show skills that he doesn't really have, was that a sky hook? Did it touch the rim? Is Mario watching the ball handler while his own man just roams to open spots on the floor? Look, I'm a big fan of this guy's potential and even as he tries too hard there are flashes of ball handling, athleticism and ability but he HAS to figure out his limitations and stay motivated on BOTH sides of the floor.

    Mudiay: If Mario's struggles can teach us anything, it's that sometimes less is more. For Mudiay that motto holds true. Less FGA's, less reckless trips to the lane with no idea how he's going to finish, less time with the ball in his hands, less minutes...all of that should be beneficial for everybody. 2 pts on 5 FGA's, 2 boards and 1 assist to 2 TO's in fifteen minutes. Trier is pushing for a roster spot and Mudiay is looking like the most cuttable player right now outside of his contract being kinda pricy to just waive.

    Vonleh: In five minutes, this dude got a LOT done. Not all good, not all bad, just a lot. 2 pts, 2 boards, a block, 2 TO's and 3 FGA's in just five minutes. Honestly hard to evaluate because it was a high motor guy that was also pressing with limited opportunity.

    Dotson: Continues to be the standout of the garbage time guys and I'd love to see him replace some of Mudiay's minutes with Frank. I really want to watch how his motor holds up with the actual rotation guys because there's been promising signs through 2 games. 4/4 from the field, 8 points, 2 boards and 1 assist with a TO over 9 minutes.

    Baker: In 8 minutes he knocked down a three, tallied 2 assists, got 2 steals and injected the game with his typical brand of physicality to make up for lack of athleticism. He plays a likeable style of ball, especially for a Knicks fan, but can he be more than a bench depth guy? Not sure about that.

    Hicks: Hicks looks better than last year, but still G-League level. It's good to see a bit of progression though.

    Allen: I'll say this...I was sleepy, the garbage unit was in and I was focused on the guys that will make the roster; but he was still active enough to notice him. Good effort.

    Closing thought: How about those Yanks? I had to watch the Knicks game late because I stuck with New York's only playoff team. But with all the rebuilds going on, we may be on the verge of a resurgence of NY sports and the Knicks seem like they're finally in a position to build long term success.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 04, 2018, 12:30:36 PM
Pharaoh, we watched the same game though you gave a much better rundown.

I largely agree with your assessment of the current state of our players.

Based on what we’ve seen so far, this is the depth chart among our healthy players. I’ll offset the ones who should be out of the rotation till they improve. This leaves out KP & Lee.

Kanter Robinson    Kornet
Thomas Vonleh.    Hezonja
Knox                                   Mudiay
Dotson Hardaway  Baker
Ntilikina Trier        Burke

Cut or trade Mudiay &/or Lee, promote Trier. Get Allen on the other two-way and keep polishing Hicks.

Those are the moves I want to see from the brain trust.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 04, 2018, 12:33:36 PM
If we cut Mudiay and plug in Lee as the backup SF till Mario gets his head right, we might be better off than we could get through trades.
Title: Mario & Mudiay
Post by: chipstern on October 04, 2018, 12:39:10 PM
I saw what you saw, Pha...

However. 

Mario is a knock down three point shooter, and in the past two games I do not recall him getting a single look, open or otherwise. 

Trying too hard? 

Perhaps.  He is a willing passer...pressing. 

Mudiay?  Hard to get a read.  I like his energy and his aggression, but he is also pressing. 

Timmy?  Confounding.  When he is aggressive, going to the hoop, he makes good plays, and potentially creates opportunities for his team mates.  He is also pressing, vis a vis his intercontinental Ballistic game, and I saw a tendency to swallow the ball, and again, take questionable shots, whereas Trier, a rookie, shows more acumen for creating in the midrange and off the dribble. 

Knicks defensive effort is encouraging. 

Are pushing the tempo, as per Fizdale. 

Rebounding is suspect. 

Ball movement, so fluid in Game 1, took a dive in game two. 

I suspect Friday night could get...dicey. 

Still, absorbing a good ass-kicking might be useful in terms of a re-boot, and refocusing on fundamentals. 

We shall see. 

Davis most definitely a worthy challenge for my man Enes, who didn't face Howard in Game One.  The Nyets Allen is a very nice player, with a lot of upside in the paint for Brooklyn, but Enes had his way with him.  And in terms of defense, well, sometimes the best defense is a good offense, and 22 & 20 still represent a big time performance in the NBA, irrespective of the match-up. 

Trier & Dotson presenting Timmy with a palpable challenge, and a template for how to get it done. 
Title: Facil
Post by: chipstern on October 04, 2018, 12:45:00 PM
No way do I see the Knicks cutting Mudiay. 

I don't believe that is Fizdale's M.O. 

Also, I mean, two preseason games?  Off with his head?  I don't think the Knicks invested all of this time just to jettison him.  Wishful thinking. 

Still, Trier and Dotson and Baker giving Fizz a lot to think about.  Timmy, too. 

Be interesting to see how Perry finesses all of this going forward. 

Lee is a solid pro, and would be a worthy addition to any number of teams. 

Pulling that off, though, could be tricky. 

Lee and Noah the elephants in the room. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 04, 2018, 01:19:18 PM
Fizz, asked about Trier earning a full time roster spot said something like “roster spots are for guys that earn them. So far, Trier is earning a spot.”

I hope this means that guys who aren’t earning spots are moved or dumped  to make space for guys who do rather than tell the better players that they earned it but don’t get promoted because of short money owed to a guy that shows up less on the court.

Timmy is with Baker looking up at Trier and Dotson.

Baker had some ugly ass turnovers against the Nyets
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 04, 2018, 01:22:47 PM
Mario has incredible tools. If he’d signed a multiyear deal or given a team option, I’d say play him into the flow and accept higher volume mistakes and work to reduce them over time. He’s here on a one year. It’s on him right now to clean up his game. To a lesser extent this also goes for Vonleh.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 04, 2018, 01:25:58 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 04, 2018, 01:48:21 AM
Catching a replay.
First play of the game, Breen says, Hardaway on Crabbe.
Tim makes a show of defending. Crabbe passes off.
Then simply drifts behind the ball handler, Tim gets totally lost and is about 10 feet below the ball, Crabbe with a wide open 3.
Crabbe gets another wide open shot a few plays later.
A little later Tim drifts off his man in the weakside corner, then totally loses sight of his guy.  Ball gets trapped on the strong side and Burke steals. But if Nets were able to swing it out, Tim was 20 feet from his man and trapped in behind two other players.
Way to D, Tim.


IGGY
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 04, 2018, 01:30:37 PM
Watched a lot of this one

Will go back and watch game 1

And watched the postgame with Fizzy, plus the preseason panel with Fiz, Perry and Mills

I think what we have to remember when projecting minutes is that Fiz isnt going to go by just the preseason games.  He sees these guys every day in pratice - and despite what he says there was a pecking order coming in.

That said - ready for anything in terms of court time with these guys.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 04, 2018, 01:32:21 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 04, 2018, 01:25:58 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 04, 2018, 01:48:21 AM
Catching a replay.
First play of the game, Breen says, Hardaway on Crabbe.
Tim makes a show of defending. Crabbe passes off.
Then simply drifts behind the ball handler, Tim gets totally lost and is about 10 feet below the ball, Crabbe with a wide open 3.
Crabbe gets another wide open shot a few plays later.
A little later Tim drifts off his man in the weakside corner, then totally loses sight of his guy.  Ball gets trapped on the strong side and Burke steals. But if Nets were able to swing it out, Tim was 20 feet from his man and trapped in behind two other players.
Way to D, Tim.


IGGY

Tim is not a bad enough basketball player that you need to get a Jimmer-Ammo hardon for him. Calm down.

———

Tim is an eighth or ninth man on a good team, a sixth or seventh man on a decent team, and a starter on a lotto team, not that he can’t further improve.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 04, 2018, 02:17:20 PM
I'm not what a Courtly-Muddy trade gets you.  But they are excess.

Alternatively, Knix could think about moving a Tim-Mud package.
A team needing 3-point shooting might want Tim.  Though the SG position has solidified leaguewide, so not sure how many teams would be interested.
For NYK, Courtly can stay on as a steady vet (along with Lance*) and we'd potentially free up money going forward.  I'm sure Knix aren't at that point yet, but might be after another half season of evaluating Tim.  Courtly can start at SG, and we'd still have Trier, Dotson & Baker as backup SG's.  You heard it here first . . .


* speaking of Lance and Iggy, Lance had what I call an Iggy boxscore.  Limited stats and a big on court +.  For Lance, 0 points and a team leading +18. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 04, 2018, 04:18:17 PM
Courtney Lee and Emmanuel Mudiay (17 mil and 13 mil next year for Lee) for Moe Harkless and Miles Leonard (22 mil this year and 23 mil next). Portland sends us a second rounder for the cap help & we wind up only able to offer 1 not 2 max deals to FAs next year. We can let Kornet walk and try to get him in the D-League if he clears waivers.

Kanter Robinson Leonard
Thomas Vonleh KP
Knox Harkless Hezonja
Dotson Hardaway Baker
Frank Trier Burke

Hicks and Allen as the 2 way guys, though we just added Barrett who can push Allen and possibly take his spot.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 04, 2018, 05:20:57 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 04, 2018, 02:59:18 AM
Is Zonja a mistake player? 


Yes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 04, 2018, 05:32:00 PM
Quote from: Pharoah on October 04, 2018, 11:33:41 AM

    Frank Ntilikina


Should Start.

Quote
    Enes Kanter: I like him off the bench moreso than starting

Yes!

Quote

    Mitch: Having him planted behind Frank up top gives the Knicks promise as a tough, defensive team for the foreseeable future.


Start Frank and Mitch. Bring Enes off the bench.  I love it.  That's how it should be.  If Mitch gets in early foul trouble you just bring in Enes so Mitch gets the crash course in brain surgery as a starter and Enes gets to wail on second units.

Why wouldn't we do that?  Enes' ego? Mitchell's frailty?

Lets have some defense in the starting unit and not let some of these teams roll off 30-40 point first quarters on us.


Bench Mob: Enes, Tim
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 04, 2018, 05:46:52 PM
Starters should be two-way players.

Bench is for the specialists like Enes,  Lance, and Trier
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on October 04, 2018, 09:01:22 PM
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24896082/kyrie-irving-says-plans-re-signing-celtics (http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24896082/kyrie-irving-says-plans-re-signing-celtics)

Kyrie Irving says he intends to remain a member of the Boston Celtics beyond this season.

"I've shared it with some of my teammates as well as the organization as well as everyone else in Boston. If you guys will have me back, I plan on re-signing here next year," Irving said to rousing applause at an event for season-ticket holders at TD Garden on Thursday night.

I know some of you guys have spent a lot of time speculating/fantasizing on KI jumping ship and playing for the Knicks, but you might want to broaden your search.

 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on October 04, 2018, 09:27:51 PM
Yayyyyy....

Go, Kyrie!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 04, 2018, 09:45:41 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 04, 2018, 05:46:52 PM
Starters should be two-way players.

Bench is for the specialists like Enes,  Lance, and Trier

Calling Enes a specialist is just plain silly, but agree with ya 100 percent on Frank.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 04, 2018, 09:48:40 PM
Meanwhile, Carmelo looks like a perfect fit for the Houston Rockets offense, perhaps my least favorite in the league, yes, but he's perfect in it.
Title: Kyrie
Post by: chipstern on October 04, 2018, 10:07:54 PM
So much for all of that specious speculative conjecture about Butler and Kyrie on the Knicks...

And we still have our 2019 #1 pick. 

Imagine that. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on October 04, 2018, 10:29:09 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on October 04, 2018, 09:27:51 PM
Yayyyyy....

Go, Kyrie!!

Kid, sorry to burst your balloon.

But it look like you might get your wish with Kavanaugh on the Court.

Your keg is half full-

Seems Brett was a little thirsty after all that anger came out.
Title: Re: Mario & Mudiay
Post by: Pharoah on October 04, 2018, 10:33:04 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 04, 2018, 12:39:10 PM
I saw what you saw, Pha...

However. 

Mario is a knock down three point shooter, and in the past two games I do not recall him getting a single look, open or otherwise. 

Trying too hard? 

Perhaps.  He is a willing passer...pressing. 

Mudiay?  Hard to get a read.  I like his energy and his aggression, but he is also pressing. 

Timmy?  Confounding.  When he is aggressive, going to the hoop, he makes good plays, and potentially creates opportunities for his team mates.  He is also pressing, vis a vis his intercontinental Ballistic game, and I saw a tendency to swallow the ball, and again, take questionable shots, whereas Trier, a rookie, shows more acumen for creating in the midrange and off the dribble. 

Knicks defensive effort is encouraging. 

Are pushing the tempo, as per Fizdale. 

Rebounding is suspect. 

Ball movement, so fluid in Game 1, took a dive in game two. 

I suspect Friday night could get...dicey. 

Still, absorbing a good ass-kicking might be useful in terms of a re-boot, and refocusing on fundamentals. 

We shall see. 

Davis most definitely a worthy challenge for my man Enes, who didn't face Howard in Game One.  The Nyets Allen is a very nice player, with a lot of upside in the paint for Brooklyn, but Enes had his way with him.  And in terms of defense, well, sometimes the best defense is a good offense, and 22 & 20 still represent a big time performance in the NBA, irrespective of the match-up. 

Trier & Dotson presenting Timmy with a palpable challenge, and a template for how to get it done.

Hey Chip how was your summer?

I definitely think the trio you mention pressing could do with just smarter decision making. Hardaway and Hezonja especially have the skillsets to be positive impact players out the gate, especially THJ. I do wonder if trying to play with pace and follow that one second decision rule is part of their early struggles, but that oughtta become more clear with time and reps. As much as they're vets, they're pretty damned young. So pressing is definitely a fair description!

I'm definitely interested to see how they deal with a squad like NO. I'm hoping Fiz expands these guys' options with more practice time and as the preseason keeps going, but having a quality team force these players to smarten up would only be beneficial imo. One good thing about not sweating the record and focusing on development, the losses can actually be positive.

Dotson needs more opportunities...I really want to see him rock with a better group of players surrounding him because he's been head and shoulders above the garbage unit and also better than Mudiay and arguably Timmy too.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 05, 2018, 01:13:29 AM
Dotson over Timmy is an easy argument to make at this point.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 05, 2018, 02:21:50 AM
I love Fizz managing expectations on Kanter’s D. A motivator and a realist at once is our coach.

“I don’t expect him to out quick anyone, but he’s a positional defender and he’s smart.”

All true and all good things for the international man of mystery to focus on while knowing the coach thinks he’s smart. Everyone likes to feel smart. Nice 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 05, 2018, 02:37:15 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 04, 2018, 04:18:17 PM
Courtney Lee and Emmanuel Mudiay (17 mil and 13 mil next year for Lee) for Moe Harkless and Miles Leonard (22 mil this year and 23 mil next). Portland sends us a second rounder for the cap help & we wind up only able to offer 1 not 2 max deals to FAs next year.

Harkless would be a nice addition to NYK, but would probably mean Zonja gets buried.  My Leonard leads the league in needing a change of scenery, but not sure how useful he is, and would be redundant once KZ returns.  Kornet a much cheaper version.

And POR doesn't need another combo wing.  The have McCollum and EvTurner and Seth Curry.  After losing ed davis, they are thin upfront and can't part with Hark.  They could certainly use the cap savings.  And Leopard definitely expendable.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 05, 2018, 02:43:56 AM
Maybe something 3-way, where:

Knix get Hark ($10M this and next) & Wes Mathews ($18M) ending.

DAL gets Tim Jr. ($17M) and My Leonard (10.5M)

POR gets Dwight Powell ($9M, player opt for $10.5M), Mud ($4.5M) and either Zonja or Lance (~$7M). 

Zonja better since he can shoot 3's and is an ending deal.  But probably can't be traded until Dec 15 or whatever in a package.

Basically,
KNIX flip Tim for Hark, shoring up the SF/PF slots.  While adding $7M in cap space for next year.  Wes is a temp fill-in for Tim this year, while Trier and Dotson get their sea legs.  And Courtly steadies the ship.  Knix improve roster balance and add cap space.
Hark probably slides in as starting PF while KZ is out, moving Lance back to his better bench role.

DAL flips Wes' ending for Tim's scoring.  Basically an old-for-young wing swap for the Mavs.  Tim slots in with Smith Jr and Doncic with DeAndre down below.  In the process, they lose athletic Dwight Powel, but Mavs hope Dirk can light a fire under Myers ass, and teach him some tricks.

POR = basically a Hark for Powell swap, which allows them to ditch Leonard for endings.  What's not to like?
POR gets a lot of ending deals (tho Powell can opt in for same money as Hark/Leonard had).  A bouncy Powell, see if Zonja can shoot or Mud can play.  They can use the 3-point shooting Zonja supposedly brings.  But in any case they improve their salary cap for next year. 
Save $10M at least and $20M if Powell opts out (they can decide to keep him or not).

I really like this deal for NYK and POR.
Depends a lot on what DAL thinks of Tim (and his contract) and Powell.
DAL really can use more 3-point shooting.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 05, 2018, 08:45:05 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 05, 2018, 02:43:56 AM
Maybe something 3-way, where:

Knix get Hark ($10M this and next) & Wes Mathews ($18M) ending.

DAL gets Tim Jr. ($17M) and My Leonard (10.5M)

POR gets Dwight Powell ($9M, player opt for $10.5M), Mud ($4.5M) and either Zonja or Lance (~$7M). 

Zonja better since he can shoot 3's and is an ending deal.  But probably can't be traded until Dec 15 or whatever in a package.

Basically,
KNIX flip Tim for Hark, shoring up the SF/PF slots.  While adding $7M in cap space for next year.  Wes is a temp fill-in for Tim this year, while Trier and Dotson get their sea legs.  And Courtly steadies the ship.  Knix improve roster balance and add cap space.
Hark probably slides in as starting PF while KZ is out, moving Lance back to his better bench role.

DAL flips Wes' ending for Tim's scoring.  Basically an old-for-young wing swap for the Mavs.  Tim slots in with Smith Jr and Doncic with DeAndre down below.  In the process, they lose athletic Dwight Powel, but Mavs hope Dirk can light a fire under Myers ass, and teach him some tricks.

POR = basically a Hark for Powell swap, which allows them to ditch Leonard for endings.  What's not to like?
POR gets a lot of ending deals (tho Powell can opt in for same money as Hark/Leonard had).  A bouncy Powell, see if Zonja can shoot or Mud can play.  They can use the 3-point shooting Zonja supposedly brings.  But in any case they improve their salary cap for next year. 
Save $10M at least and $20M if Powell opts out (they can decide to keep him or not).

I really like this deal for NYK and POR.
Depends a lot on what DAL thinks of Tim (and his contract) and Powell.
DAL really can use more 3-point shooting.

Thoughts?

Pass
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on October 05, 2018, 09:21:29 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on October 04, 2018, 10:29:09 PM




Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on October 04, 2018, 09:27:51 PM
Yayyyyy....

Go, Kyrie!!

Kid, sorry to burst your balloon.

But it look like you might get your wish with Kavanaugh on the Court.

Your keg is half full-

Seems Brett was a little thirsty after all that anger came out.

Trump's wish.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on October 05, 2018, 09:28:48 AM
Can Mario Hezonja even be traded?

I wouldn't be looking for any player movement unless it is simply dealing a guy to open a roster spot (ex;  Trier making roster), for a pick and someone we could waive.

Not sure we are at that point with Mudiay but who knows?

I like our front court.  Lets remember Kornet.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on October 05, 2018, 09:29:56 AM
So it took young buck Mitch 2 games to get hurt?  Yes.  Rely on him.  Surely.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 05, 2018, 09:46:31 AM
Quote from: chipstern on October 05, 2018, 08:45:05 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 05, 2018, 02:43:56 AM
Maybe something 3-way, where:

Knix get Hark ($10M this and next) & Wes Mathews ($18M) ending.

DAL gets Tim Jr. ($17M) and My Leonard (10.5M)

POR gets Dwight Powell ($9M, player opt for $10.5M), Mud ($4.5M) and either Zonja or Lance (~$7M). 

Zonja better since he can shoot 3's and is an ending deal.  But probably can't be traded until Dec 15 or whatever in a package.

Basically,
KNIX flip Tim for Hark, shoring up the SF/PF slots.  While adding $7M in cap space for next year.  Wes is a temp fill-in for Tim this year, while Trier and Dotson get their sea legs.  And Courtly steadies the ship.  Knix improve roster balance and add cap space.
Hark probably slides in as starting PF while KZ is out, moving Lance back to his better bench role.

DAL flips Wes' ending for Tim's scoring.  Basically an old-for-young wing swap for the Mavs.  Tim slots in with Smith Jr and Doncic with DeAndre down below.  In the process, they lose athletic Dwight Powel, but Mavs hope Dirk can light a fire under Myers ass, and teach him some tricks.

POR = basically a Hark for Powell swap, which allows them to ditch Leonard for endings.  What's not to like?
POR gets a lot of ending deals (tho Powell can opt in for same money as Hark/Leonard had).  A bouncy Powell, see if Zonja can shoot or Mud can play.  They can use the 3-point shooting Zonja supposedly brings.  But in any case they improve their salary cap for next year. 
Save $10M at least and $20M if Powell opts out (they can decide to keep him or not).

I really like this deal for NYK and POR.
Depends a lot on what DAL thinks of Tim (and his contract) and Powell.
DAL really can use more 3-point shooting.

Thoughts?

Pass

Shoot.
Title: Re: Kyrie
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on October 05, 2018, 10:05:24 AM
Quote from: chipstern on October 04, 2018, 10:07:54 PM
So much for all of that specious

speculative conjecture about Butler and Kyrie on the Knicks...

And we still have our 2019 #1 pick. 

Imagine that.

Yeah ...  Brain trust stated on the preseason show that picks won't be dealt.

So... Look at #10-16 Or so on the nbadraft.net board. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on October 05, 2018, 10:08:51 AM
Will Knicks

a)  want to pull off a "keep KP on ice, get higher pick" maneuver?

b)  be able to convince Porzingis to go along?

I have contended all along it will be a "lets go, I am ready" situation, KP calling the shots.  But maybe this is a more crafty management group...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 05, 2018, 12:12:39 PM
I don't think Zonja can be packaged until Dec 15.
And he doesn't make enough to structure it as two deals; (a Hark-Zonja straight up and then the other stuff as a 2nd deal).

Knix have 5 SG's and two combo G's, so I definitely expect PerryMills to be looking to make a move.  Courtly (and Noah) on the trading block.  But Tim could get us more in return.  Knix also lacking a starting quality PG, but my trade doesn't address that.

My deal balances the roster by giving us a legit starting F in Hark.  And adding more defense.  I like Lance but he's best as a 15 min a night bench vet.  Hark and Knox could be a solid F pairing.  Then later KZ starting and either Hark or Knox to the bench.
Title: Sweet Merciful
Post by: chipstern on October 05, 2018, 04:33:47 PM
Two lousy exhibition games, and Knicks fans already have Mario Hezonja booked on a garbage trawler out of Bayonne. 

(Oh, and Kiid Rock has concluded that Mitchell Robinson's vitality is suspect based on turning his ankle by stepping on another player's foot, one of the most common injuries in all of hoops)

And, sweet merciful J____, will someone kindly explain the eternal appeal of Maurice Harkless to a generation of Trader Vics?  And whatsoever would justify queering the chemistry of this team before it has even started, and with Kevin Knox already earning his stripes at small forward. 

Having hopefully dispensed with the feeding frenzy Knicks fans held in regard to queering all of our plans to pursue fucking Melo 2.0 in Jimmy Butler ("...but see, he GUARANTEES you get Kyrie Irving in the summer of 2019, and without Jimmy, we don't stand a chance...it's a fact...I read it in the newspaper"), once again, here comes the savior from Galilee, Moe Harkless, starting small forward of our dreams.   

Yes, by all means, let's bail out Portland from a bad signing. 

By all means let's bring on board  a cat who in six seasons, SIX SEASONS, has yet to make a case for himself, and who in three seasons with Portland, THREE SEASONS, is averaging 6.8 ppg, with a FT% of .577 and a .309 3-point %.

(https://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/russian_roulette_all_in_the_family.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 05, 2018, 06:50:15 PM
I don't think Hark has been used that well in POR.
If he was doing great, he wouldn't be available (same with Tim).
He has shown improvement and can develop further.
Last two years shot 50% FG.  Last year 41% on 3's (just 2 attempts).  Year before 35% on 3's.  Last year's FT% up to 71%.  So he's not going to hurt you on offense (and can do more)
Solid defender.  Decent rebounder.

I hadn't thought of Hark as overpaid. $10M with one more year remaining.  League average is $8M now.
EvTurner and Myers are their problem contracts.

Really Hark would be a fill-in and then a backup F to KZ and Knox.  And if Knox struggles or hits the rook wall, Hark could start at SF.
So a backup F for $10M who can fill in and start at SF/PF as needed.
Plays D, and developing a 3&D profile.
Not a savior, but a solid role player.

Also, we'd save $7M on next season's cap.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 05, 2018, 07:00:45 PM
As for queering the chemistry.
I think moving mistake players such as Mud and Zonja helps.  Not to mention thinning out the G glut, both clarifying the PG situation -- just Burke and Franc -- while making a commitment to Courtly, who has been left dangling. 

I largely forgot about Vonleh.  Maybe the Knix hope he can be a Hark type and be a solid F role player.  I have doubts and don't see him able to legit start at either F spot.  But we'll see.

Another bonus: 3 players going out and 2 back means we open a roster spot for Trier, showing players that effort is rewarded.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on October 05, 2018, 09:17:06 PM
 Once again......Evan Turner much better than he  gets credit for.  Even the "overpaid" can be excellent contributors - and frankly sometimes you NEED to overpay.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 05, 2018, 09:59:48 PM
Damn. Talent is a good thing to have, and we have some. Go Knicks!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 05, 2018, 10:03:27 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 05, 2018, 07:00:45 PM
As for queering the chemistry.
I think moving mistake players such as Mud and Zonja helps.  Not to mention thinning out the G glut, both clarifying the PG situation -- just Burke and Franc -- while making a commitment to Courtly, who has been left dangling. 

I largely forgot about Vonleh.  Maybe the Knix hope he can be a Hark type and be a solid F role player.  I have doubts and don't see him able to legit start at either F spot.  But we'll see.

Another bonus: 3 players going out and 2 back means we open a roster spot for Trier, showing players that effort is rewarded.

Yeah, I mentioned how we would do that -

Deal a usable player for a bum and a pick.  Waive the bum.  Add Trier.

Though Fiz said the other night re:  Alonzo when asked if he'd be "G-league bound" -

"I dont know - but either way he is OURS.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on October 05, 2018, 10:35:45 PM
Looks like another fine game for the core and rotation, looking at the stat sheet. I only caught the final quarter, not so much from that end of the bench.
Title: True Dat
Post by: chipstern on October 05, 2018, 11:45:43 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 05, 2018, 09:59:48 PM
Damn. Talent is a good thing to have, and we have some. Go Knicks!

True Dat. 

Finally. 

PS: FUCK Moe Harkless. 

PPS: FUCK Moe Harkless TWICE.

PPPS: Timmy.

PPPPS: Looking forward to Pharoah's breakdown.  Yes, only a pre-season game, but winning is a good habit TO CULTIVATE.  And we are playing with good pace and getting after it defensively, albeit only baby steps.  BUT SOMETHING TO ROOT FOR. 
Title: Re: True Dat
Post by: chipstern on October 05, 2018, 11:46:37 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 05, 2018, 11:45:43 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 05, 2018, 09:59:48 PM
Damn. Talent is a good thing to have, and we have some. Go Knicks!

True Dat. 

Finally. 

PS: FUCK Moe Harkless. 

PPS: FUCK Moe Harkless TWICE.

PPPS: Timmy.

PPPPS: Looking forward to Pharoah's breakdown.  Yes, only a pre-season game, but winning is a good habit TO CULTIVATE.  And we are playing with good pace and getting after it defensively, albeit only baby steps.  BUT SOMETHING TO ROOT FOR.

Fuck Jimmy Butler.
Title: Re: Kyrie
Post by: Kam on October 06, 2018, 12:39:33 AM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on October 05, 2018, 10:05:24 AM
Quote from: chipstern on October 04, 2018, 10:07:54 PM
So much for all of that specious

speculative conjecture about Butler and Kyrie on the Knicks...

And we still have our 2019 #1 pick. 

Imagine that.

Yeah ...  Brain trust stated on the preseason show that picks won't be dealt.

So... Look at #10-16 Or so on the nbadraft.net board.

This next lottery is the first one with improved odds for every team in the lottery so as long as we are in it we stand a meaningful chance at a Top 4 pick

Finishing 10th would yield about 1 in 8 odds of landing one of the first four picks

I'm comfortable with that... seeing 35 wins possible as a rosy prediction.

That would be ideal... begin to set a winning culture while still maintaining a hope for lottery luck.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Zupzup on October 06, 2018, 04:21:50 AM
Sometimes its not about the numbers. THJ does not seem like a natural fit on this team. And I say this after a decent game from him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 06, 2018, 06:13:43 AM
We're not going anywhere.
So Lance and Vonleh can be the fill-in F's.
And then in backup roles once KZ returns.

A full year to evaluate Tim, Zonja, Mud.
Though since the latter 2 are endings, they can go in a package midseason perhaps. 

We have 6 SG's and 2 combo G's.
So a glut.  But maybe who cares.

What do the Knicks do if Kanter gets injured?  or abducted by Erdogan's goons?
He seems like an iron man and his ground bound game reduces possibilities of high flying injury.  But stuff happens.
 
Mitch ain't ready to start.
Neither is Kornet.
I don't expect to see KZ until FEB.
If Noah was still on board, he'd be a possibility.
But seems like that ship is disembarking, and we probably want that roster spot as well.

Maybe it would just help us tank.
But Micth/Kornet/Lance as our contingency starting C?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 06, 2018, 12:57:31 PM
Mitch, Kornet, and Vonleh. Lance is mostly PF with a little SF potential.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 06, 2018, 01:06:42 PM
http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/notable-trade-exceptions-available-this-offseason/ar-AAyHFFO (http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/notable-trade-exceptions-available-this-offseason/ar-AAyHFFO)

Blazers, Bulls, and Raptors all have big enough exceptions to absorb Courtney Lee.

The Clips, Pistons, and Cavs all have between five and seven mil available.

This might be the best route to off load our extra guard.

The question is which one...


Title: Trader Vic
Post by: chipstern on October 06, 2018, 01:08:36 PM
I appreciate your passion for "deals" BoD. 

Having said that, how would "dealing" Hezonja and/or Hardaway help our team?

More to the point, how would "dumping" Mario or Timmy enhance our standing among free agents?  There are more implications to deals than just talent. 

Who, among second or third tier free agents are going to be enthused about coming here, perhaps accepting one year deals or less money, because they are excited about the possibility of proving themselves and creating a home in NYC at the Garden. 

To then simply turn around and go, "Oooops, my bad," is not going to build trust or a family climate. 

Yes, yes, hard knocks and hard truths.  Got it. 

"Maybe it will help us tank?"

Well, now, that doesn't seem to be the goal, does it?

We could very well be a lottery team come next spring. 

Management and the coaching staff have not committed to tanking, they have committed to building a better, sustainable culture. 

Fizdale genuinely impresses me, because he seems to be able to reach & teach young players.  Again, baby steps, naught but baby steps, and in pre-season no less, but we've already seen his young charges getting after it defensively, and demonstrating better pacing and energy. 

What he did with Mudiay, responding to poor games by starting him, really struck me as foundational and supportive in a very...human response.  Mudiay's shooting continues to astonish in its ineptitude, but Emmanuel really set a very good tone in transition, made some excellent penetrations and reads in the open court and in the paint, and had a good defensive focus.  Perhaps the confidence Mudiay displayed will translate to his own offense.  Perhaps not.  Fizz got good minutes out of him. 

And we also saw progress from Hezonja and Hardaway and Vonleh in tangible ways.  Again, baby steps, but Mario seemed more under control, though I am still baffled at how few looks he gets (Alonzo Trier, please pick up the Hospitality Phone); Timmy still had too many heat check threes, but I liked his aggression, and how it mirrored Trier in using his athleticism, going to the rack, and getting to the charity stripe; and the sheer physicality and competitive ooomph of Vonleh was a welcome development...a double double in a handful of minutes, some nice aggression and hops around the rack, and a three pointer. 

I am confident that Perry is working the phones looking to find takers for our roster overflow. 

In the meantime, if Trier has to go to Westchester, along with Hicks, that is not the end of the world.  Meanwhile, Baker evincing his inner Mike Riordan, Dotson playing well in limited minutes.   

I sense that Perry is going to be a lot more patient with the likes of Hezonja, Mudiay, Hardaway than some of us on this forum might be. 

Which is all to the good. 

I am liking our chemistry, even as I wait for the other shoe to drop, and for this team to absorb some good old fashioned ass whuppings.  I will be interested to see how they respond post-loss, and how they respond when Fizz shortens up rotations and begins to settle in lineups and match ups. 

The time for deal-deals-deals is more distant than you would seem to project, and in terms of chemistry, some of what you propose, calculated and well-thought out as you always are, amounts to little more than a reshuffling not a reboot.  Harkless instead of Hezonja?  Giving up on Hardaway in the name of cap space; adding a Wes Matthews when we already have Dotson and Trier (AND COURTNEY LEE)? 

Oh, and yet another proposal for dumping Lance Thomas, who clearly is a significant contributor and a defensive force, and one of Fizz's faves?   A trendsetter in terms of our team culture, our defensive culture.  So we can replace him with Moe Harkless? 

Persuasive?  Perhaps.

Compelling? 

PASS. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 06, 2018, 01:11:19 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 06, 2018, 01:06:42 PM
http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/notable-trade-exceptions-available-this-offseason/ar-AAyHFFO (http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/notable-trade-exceptions-available-this-offseason/ar-AAyHFFO)

Blazers, Bulls, and Raptors all have big enough exceptions to absorb Courtney Lee.

The Clips, Pistons, and Cavs all have between five and seven mil available.

This might be the best route to off load our extra guard.

The question is which one...

All kind of crowded in the back court, alas. 

Be very interesting to see how Scott Perry finesses our roster over the next few weeks, if at all. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on October 06, 2018, 03:58:15 PM
Courtney Lee for Jerryd Bayless.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on October 06, 2018, 03:58:43 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 04, 2018, 03:18:52 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 03, 2018, 08:42:00 PM
Breen in midseason (homer) form
"Knicks ERUPT for 33 points in the second quarter"

After having trouble scoring in the 1Q (11 points through the first 10 mins), they did erupt.  Plus when you're with Clyde you tend to slip in creative words.

Actually what I like is that the Knick broadcasters aren't big homers like most others.  They mention Knick flaws and praise the other teams good plays/players.

I watch a lot of League Pass. Breen & Clyde are hands down the best in the business.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on October 06, 2018, 07:14:07 PM
I am amazed that clyde has not made the national jump, he is entertainingly good. Perry has given the franchise a recognition of talent it has not had in the recent past.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 06, 2018, 07:29:58 PM
Quote from: Zupzup on October 06, 2018, 04:21:50 AM
Sometimes its not about the numbers. THJ does not seem like a natural fit on this team. And I say this after a decent game from him.

Get rid of him at your peril

Guy scores points
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 06, 2018, 07:31:14 PM
Quote from: luee on October 06, 2018, 07:14:07 PM
I am amazed that clyde has not made the national jump, he is entertainingly good. Perry has given the franchise a recognition of talent it has not had in the recent past.

Clyde working with the guards this year, at Fiz's behest.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 06, 2018, 08:48:47 PM
Finally.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 06, 2018, 08:59:35 PM
Yeah, I've also been calling for that forever.
Clyde knows the game, knows how to teach it succinctly, and commands respect.

Clyde is too idiosyncratic for national TV.
Not just the vocab, but the way he offers silence when his broadcast partner says something Clyde isn't interested in following up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Zupzup on October 07, 2018, 07:07:55 AM
JRS and Smart, especialy Smart. Not so.
Title: The Old Ending Contract Play
Post by: chipstern on October 07, 2018, 01:45:50 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on October 06, 2018, 03:58:15 PM
Courtney Lee for Jerryd Bayless.

Other than an ending salary, how does this help with either our roster or back-court glut issues?  Or chemistry?

And, REALISTICALLY, why would Philly invest in Lee when they have Reddick? 

Oh, and that Fultz fellow.  And #1 pick Zhaire Smith

Also, as per projecting free agency moves in 2019?

Kevin Durant

Kawhi Leonard

Mychal Thompson

Jimmy Butler

On the Knicks?

If we had a prayer of a shot at Kawhi, well, but Durant?  Why would he leave GS?  Jimmy Butler?  Fuck Jimmy Butler.  And again, as regards the received wisdom which holds that Kawhi's move to Los Angeles is Biblically predestined?  Well, I can recall Forum members, who shall remain unnamed, who asserted with equally fervent Biblical certitude, that Butler/Irving was a done deal, a match made in heaven, a once in a lifetime opportunity we must surrender assets and draft picks to hit while the iron was hot, as in, RIGHT FUCKING NOW.  [Cough]

I'd say it's more likely we re-up our own free agents, starting with Enes Kanter. 

PS: Salary cap space sure comes in handy when trying to execute trades, or in leveraging draft picks to help other teams pull off complicated trades when they DO NOT HAVE CAP SPACE.  We are not obligated to simply commit $40 million x 5 to a Jimmy Butler, when we already have Timmy, Damyean, Alonzo and Frank.  And there is always 2020.  And me, personally, I'd rather have more draft picks and remain committed to a GROW YOUR OWN stratagem.  Clearly, we agree to disagree on this.  Cool. 

PPS: Forum members, not saying you, Biz, in seemingly each & every Trader Vic scenario, seem positively addicted to the notion of shipping Lance Thomas out of town on a Bayonne Garbage Trawler, as if he were naught but an overpaid bum.  And yet, Fizz regards him as his captain and an iconic symbol of what Coach envisions this team being/becoming going forward.  What does Fizz see that eludes Forum handicappers?   Or doesn't grab you by the short hairs when reading the morning box scores?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Urethra_Franklin on October 07, 2018, 06:45:09 PM
I've never understood the LT hate either. He's a prototypical 7-8th man and probably an excellent practice player.  Also doesn't seem like a dickhead
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 07, 2018, 07:20:02 PM
He seems a lot less bobbly this preseason at least. If Lance can carry that forward, he can be a quite effective player.

Forgetting contract status, our 15 best players for everyday basketball are

Kanter Robinson Kornet
Thomas Vonleh KP
Knox Hezonja Lee
Hardaway Dotson Baker
Ntilikina Trier Burke

To make this happen we have to finalize Noah’s goodbye & ship off or cut loose Mudiay. Mudiay might cut us some cash if it frees him up intime to get an overseas contract that lets him try again in March to latch on somewhere in the League, maybe a third of what can be arranged overseas.

I’m glad we have Hicks on a two-way. He looks like he can fit right in and we already expect to be down a key big for likely half the season at least. I like the way Hicks and Vonleh can push the ball for guys their size.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 07, 2018, 08:11:35 PM
Wait.

So now Jimmy Biutler isn't worth pursuing if we are giving up NOTHING?

Right.  Got it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 07, 2018, 08:12:25 PM
Quote from: Urethra_Franklin on October 07, 2018, 06:45:09 PM
I've never understood the LT hate either. He's a prototypical 7-8th man and probably an excellent practice player.  Also doesn't seem like a dickhead

Name one Dukie that has been a headcase in this league.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 07, 2018, 09:01:37 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 07, 2018, 08:11:35 PM
Wait.

So now Jimmy Biutler isn't worth pursuing if we are giving up NOTHING?

Right.  Got it.

$40 Million Per X Over Five Years?  THAT AIN'T NOTHING. 

That's KEVIN DURANT Money.  KAWHI LEONARD Money.  Players with championship rings

Are you going to front and pretend that Jimmy Butler is that kind of team changer.  You, the handicapper who declared that 25 Million would be irresponsible for Klay Thompson.

Notice all of the teams lining up to surrender serious assets for Butler

Don't Bogart that joint my friend. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 07, 2018, 09:12:48 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 07, 2018, 08:12:25 PM
Quote from: Urethra_Franklin on October 07, 2018, 06:45:09 PM
I've never understood the LT hate either. He's a prototypical 7-8th man and probably an excellent practice player.  Also doesn't seem like a dickhead

Name one Dukie that has been a headcase in this league.

Christian Laettner? 

And I liked CL. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on October 08, 2018, 12:32:13 AM
our point guard situation is NOT good at the moment.

Burke by default. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 08, 2018, 12:49:17 AM
If Frank develops a clean dependable goto move, he’s the guy. He may be the guy already anyway on his way to finding that move. With the ball skills of both forwards and the off guard (assuming Lance’s bobbles don’t return), the D helps and the tendency to defer doesn’t hurt that much. Playing with our first line helps Frank more than it helps Trey at this point. It will be easier to manage Trey’s defensive assignments dealing him out from the bench.

2 more games till we’re obliged to make a serious cut down.

I think there is some merit to the prospect of waiving Kornet with an offer of our two-way open to him if he clears the league (50-50, I’d guess). It lets us patch our bigs lineup with Hicks and Kornet into January or February if we play our cards right, which we’ve shown we can with the G-League. Combine that with the JoNo chop, and we have

Kanter Robinson Vonleh
Thomas KP
Knox Hezonja Lee
Hardaway Dotson Baker
Ntilikina Trier Burke Mudiay

Extra beef - Hicks & Kornet

It’s a little guard heavy, but so is today’s NBA.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 08, 2018, 01:02:03 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 08, 2018, 12:49:17 AM
If Frank develops a clean dependable goto move, he’s the guy. He may be the guy already anyway on his way to finding that move. With the ball skills of both forwards and the off guard (assuming Lance’s bobbles don’t return), the D helps and the tendency to defer doesn’t hurt that much. Playing with our first line helps Frank more than it helps Trey at this point. It will be easier to manage Trey’s defensive assignments dealing him out from the bench.

2 more games till we’re obliged to make a serious cut down.

I think there is some merit to the prospect of waiving Kornet with an offer of our two-way open to him if he clears the league (50-50, I’d guess). It lets us patch our bigs lineup with Hicks and Kornet into January or February if we play our cards right, which we’ve shown we can with the G-League. Combine that with the JoNo chop, and we have

Kanter Robinson Vonleh
Thomas KP
Knox Hezonja Lee
Hardaway Dotson Baker
Ntilikina Trier Burke Mudiay

Extra beef - Hicks & Kornet

It’s a little guard heavy, but so is today’s NBA.

Interesting. 

Not sure Knicks see it that way.

Or that I see it that way. 

But I think you're on to something. 

Kornet is only signed through this season.  Would he be amenable to a G-League return?  Would he clear waivers? 

I like him, but short term/long term, Vonleh's skill-set projects as more useful/versatile. 

O'Quinn made Hernan-Gomez expendable. 

Perhaps?

Vonleh (and Robinson) make Kornet expendable.

Vonleh would seem to fit the parameters of what O'Qunn gave us last year, though longer, quicker and more athletic.  Remains to be seen if he is as skilled at 6'10" 245. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 08, 2018, 01:16:31 AM
If Kornet didn’t clear waivers, we could try to secure Daniel Ochefu to that other two-way slot. For me, this would go a long way to dulling the pain of losing Luke.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 08, 2018, 09:54:45 AM
Quote from: chipstern on October 07, 2018, 09:01:37 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 07, 2018, 08:11:35 PM
Wait.

So now Jimmy Biutler isn't worth pursuing if we are giving up NOTHING?

Right.  Got it.

$40 Million Per X Over Five Years?  THAT AIN'T NOTHING. 

That's KEVIN DURANT Money.  KAWHI LEONARD Money.  Players with championship rings

Are you going to front and pretend that Jimmy Butler is that kind of team changer.  You, the handicapper who declared that 25 Million would be irresponsible for Klay Thompson.

Notice all of the teams lining up to surrender serious assets for Butler

Don't Bogart that joint my friend.

Butler will prove/disprove that he is worth those bucks by his (continued great or declining) play in 2018-19.

He's on the clock.

But at issue is that you dont feel signing top free agents is wise - after all this incessant talk of clearing room for two "max" players.

That the Knicks would really be in position to clear such room, then TURN DOWN such player is a bit ridiculous.

"Jimmy Butler is NOT a max player based on current NBA valuation methods" can be discussed.  Discuss away.  But its tough when all you have is age and some mangled version of "he is not a good teammate" as neg factors.

Your factoring in "teams not lining up" when

a)  they did

and

b)  he has just the one year left

is silly.

That there were even multiple suitors in such a scenario shows the player's high value.

**Latest is Wolves and Heat have suspended talks - this due to Thibs demands (wanted to rework parameters).  Current coach values this player so highly that he would rather walk away with nothing for next year than up this year's win potential.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 08, 2018, 10:02:13 AM
Quote from: chipstern on October 08, 2018, 01:02:03 AM


Vonleh (and Robinson) make Kornet expendable.



Can we see wonderrook play more than 2 games in a row first?

Vonleh as O'Quinn is overoptimistic.

I dont see Kornet as at risk.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 08, 2018, 10:24:12 AM
Klay Thompson is just 6 months younger than Jimmy Butler

Klay Thompson PER

2014    20.8
2015    18.6
2016    17.4
2017    16.1

Klay Thompson is a great shooter.  Knicks have long needed one and he'd be a pretty nice addition.

Any conversation saying he is close to a Jimmy Butler as a prospective eastern conference top dog is ridiculous.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 08, 2018, 10:51:52 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 08, 2018, 09:54:45 AM
Quote from: chipstern on October 07, 2018, 09:01:37 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 07, 2018, 08:11:35 PM
Wait.

So now Jimmy Biutler isn't worth pursuing if we are giving up NOTHING?

Right.  Got it.

$40 Million Per X Over Five Years?  THAT AIN'T NOTHING. 

That's KEVIN DURANT Money.  KAWHI LEONARD Money.  Players with championship rings

Are you going to front and pretend that Jimmy Butler is that kind of team changer.  You, the handicapper who declared that 25 Million would be irresponsible for Klay Thompson.

Notice all of the teams lining up to surrender serious assets for Butler

Don't Bogart that joint my friend.

Butler will prove/disprove that he is worth those bucks by his (continued great or declining) play in 2018-19.

He's on the clock.

But at issue is that you dont feel signing top free agents is wise - after all this incessant talk of clearing room for two "max" players.

That the Knicks would really be in position to clear such room, then TURN DOWN such player is a bit ridiculous.

"Jimmy Butler is NOT a max player based on current NBA valuation methods" can be discussed.  Discuss away.  But its tough when all you have is age and some mangled version of "he is not a good teammate" as neg factors.

Your factoring in "teams not lining up" when

a)  they did

and

b)  he has just the one year left

is silly.

That there were even multiple suitors in such a scenario shows the player's high value.

**Latest is Wolves and Heat have suspended talks - this due to Thibs demands (wanted to rework parameters).  Current coach values this player so highly that he would rather walk away with nothing for next year than up this year's win potential.

A) Signing top free agents pre supposes what CONSTITUES a top tier free agent.  Depends on the player, depends on the team, depends on the match.  Butler wants what Butler wants, which is a max deal for five years.  By training camp 2019, he will be 30.  Kawhi, on the other hand, speaking of someone with who I had issues as per how he leveraged his team to get out of Dodge, will be 28.  Multiple teams vying for someone's services indicated perceived value, and Butler most certainly has that,  However, looking at the last free agents we signed (Stoudamire, Anthony, Lopez, Noah, Lee, Hardaway), gives one pause.  The commitment we made to Anthony in particular, locked the team into an arrangement which did not lift the team up, but pulled it down, and we found ourselves with a declining market for a talented player on the downside of a fine career with a no-trade clause, compliments of Phool Of Himself Jackass.  I can recall you in particular, making an argument as to how Ryan Anderson was a good return, locking us into a one-dimensional player for years to come.  Jimmy Butler is significant talent, true, but one who will be 30 come the 2019 season, which in and of itself is not a negative.  LOCKING OUR TEAM INTO THIS MOTHERFUCKER AS OUR BELL COW FOR THE NEXT FIVE YEARS?  Now that seems rather dubious, especially considering how many young, maturing and up and coming wings we already have, such as Timmy, Frank, Allonzo and Demeyan. 

B) Now if we were talking Kyrie Irving, a top-tier talent, representing a need at PG, well, then a scenario in which you back up the Brinks Truck makes some sense.  Will be 27 next season, entering his prime, not exiting it.

C) Again, one needs to think long and hard about making a long term commitment to a max free agent.  And there is no NEED to accumulate cap space just to wily nilly use it.  Would I use it if we had a legit shot at Durant or Leonard.  YES I WOULD.  They are difference makers.  You perceive Butler as a difference maker at THAT LEVEL.  Well, we part company on THAT. 

D) As for me being an idiot, asked and answered.  I have been a Knicks fan since 1961, and I have seen this team lurch from one short term solution after another.  Those great Knicks teams that competed for championships from 68-75, certainly made significant inroads with trades, such as Bellamy-Komives/DeBussherre, Riordan-Stallworth/Monroe, Cazzie/Lucas, but many of the most critical elements, such as Van Arsdale, Cazzie, Bradley, Reed, Jackson, Frazier, arrived via the draft.  A patient approach, and when we'd had time to identify areas of need and chemistry issues, we pulled the trigger on the DeBussherre trade, and it is worth remembering that, Bellamy was a Hall Of Famer, Komives was our starting PG.  Trading Bells allowed Reed to slide over from PF to center, while trading Komives opened the door for Clyde at PG.  CHEMISTRY. 

E) My caution about Butler is based on what we have, what we need, and how we are going to move forward...is Butler really the ideal fit, the titular leader, the man you give all of that hard earned cap space to?  Worthy of consideration?  Possibly, but again, someone who will be 35 at the end of his contract, and who has had injury issues?  Nice tits, but can he cook?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 08, 2018, 11:44:39 AM
"Locking ourselves into this ****** ****** for the next 5 years - now that would be dubious"

You give no valid reasoning for this.

And stay away from using Kawhi.  He isnt coming to NY and you know it. 

You have to do the dance with the WILLING in free agency.  Thus far we know KANTER to be willing.  And BUTLER.  And know Kawhi to not be - Kyrie at least for now postured up as a NO as well (though I could see that change).

Give me some others if you'd like.

I'd sure LOVE - if we had 40 mil, to add 3-4 guys between 18 and 30 mil per - if we cant get any of the big fish.  But degrading a Butler+Kanter+ possibly a third FA + the draft pick for next season is ABSURD.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 08, 2018, 12:17:00 PM
Butler will be 34 at the end of a five year deal.  Plays the entire last season at age 34.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 08, 2018, 12:57:42 PM
I’m still pulling for Miami to sink itself by buying into Butler. One less conference rival will be able to compete for a handful of years while the temptation to fall into that particular trap would be removed.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 08, 2018, 01:13:53 PM
Heat have a shot at the east with this deal

I am sure they want to keep Adebayo - was surprised to see his name in there

Richardson-Haslem-Ellington and a 1..........

Not surprising Minnesota wants more (could be Adebayo is the sinking point)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 08, 2018, 01:20:30 PM
Getting down to our 15, trading Lee for Bayless works under the CBA because Philly is still underthe cap. We’d cut Jerryd of course. It saves us money this year and a ton of money next year. Philly would get an experienced floor stretcher and perimeter defender on a reasonable deal. It gives them an option besides throwing 20 mil at Reddick in a one year deal next year as well. For us it lets the Mudiay experiment continue.

Kanter Mitchell Kornet
Thomas Vonleh KP
Knox Hezonja
Hardaway Dotson Baker
Frank Trier Burke Mudiay
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 08, 2018, 02:25:34 PM
Spurs may need a point

Murray torn ACL out for the season.

Title: Spurs
Post by: chipstern on October 08, 2018, 05:47:25 PM
Feel terrible for the kid.  He worked so hard, and Tony Parker stepped aside for him. 

IT WAS HIS TIME. 

Damn. 
Title: Meanwhile
Post by: chipstern on October 08, 2018, 06:01:48 PM
Fascinating time of year. 

Players competing for roster spots and contracts. 

Trade speculation. 

Obviously we are all absorbed in that...but beyond that, really?  2019. 

I really don't give a damn. 

I am just happy that I'll be able to share 2018-2019 with the FIZZ KIDS. 

There are so many interesting narratives, and young, Young, YOUNG Works In PROGRESS, and interesting reclamation projects. 

And a sense that the coach has reached them and established a legitimate ground zero for progress and accountability. 

There is something to root for and abide in. 

A team that competes and appears to be trying to play the right way on both sides of the ball. 

Low expectations? 

Eh...no expectations, just progress is enough. 

How to gauge it?

We'll know it when we see it. 

Already have seen some glimmers. 

Not ready to anoint anyone. 

But, my God, a Knicks Fan since 1961, and I never thought I would ever see a legitimate reboot with young athletic players to root on. 

Looking forward to our first couple of smack downs, to see how we come back...if we can stay in the ball game on our own home court, even if out manned, even if beaten, let motherfuckers know they've been in a fight, and there will be no more layup lines at the Garden. 

Nagel bemoaned our point guards. 

Fair enough.  I don't look at it that way.  Fizz is trying to cobble together something based on the clay he has to work with.  Not ideal, obviously, but he is conniving to deflect the total burden from either Trey, Emmanuel, Frank of Ron, and spread the ball and point duties around.  When you have lemons, you make lemonade.  I like the character of this quartet of pretenders.  How they'll be challenged, and how they will challenge each other. 

As you were...

PS: Oh, boy HOOPS.  Thought that the summer would never end. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 08, 2018, 06:06:20 PM
Burke for this year’s second round pick and the right to swap the year after?

Gets us assets while thinning herd. Makes a universal commitment to bigger guards.

Kanter Mitchell Kornet
Thomas Vonleh KP
Knox Hezonja Lee
Hardaway Dotson Baker
Frank Trier Mudiay

Hicks & Allen as two-ways
Title: Trader Vic's Home Companion
Post by: chipstern on October 08, 2018, 06:17:00 PM
Just for giggles. 

Phoenix just fired their GM, pleasing both of the Morris Twins. 

Same GM who just traded away their only remaining point guard. 

If the Suns wanted to rent a PG for 2018-2019, and were prepared to throw in the towel on Euro Stretch 4 Dragan Bender and his two remaining years, presuming then don't have cap space or a trade exception (and are of course unwilling to give up an unprotected #1), both Ron Baker and Emmanuel Mudiay match up salary wise...Baker an expiring deal...Mudiay a team option. 

Just saying? 

PS: The Sixers?  Reddick was 7-7 from trey last night, and 3-3- from the deuce I believe, and, well...I don't think our own Courtly Lee holds any charms. 
Title: Fac
Post by: carlos123 on October 08, 2018, 06:17:23 PM
Burke is our best PG right now, and he wants to be a Knick.
Why do you want to get rid of anyone and everyone who WANTS to be a Knick?
Why don’t you go and root for OKC or the Nyets or something?
Title: Re: Spurs
Post by: Kam on October 08, 2018, 07:35:27 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 08, 2018, 05:47:25 PM
Feel terrible for the kid.  He worked so hard, and Tony Parker stepped aside for him. 

IT WAS HIS TIME. 

Damn.

I heard Pop-Buford only offered TP an assistant coach position.  Tony was pushed aside. 
Title: LANCE
Post by: Kam on October 08, 2018, 07:37:28 PM
Lance won the starting PF job.

Yay.
Title: Prediction
Post by: Kam on October 08, 2018, 07:52:31 PM
OK here is what i want to see but i feel like Fizz is gonna flip Tim for Frank

Enes
Lance
Keven
Frank
Trey

6th man: Tim
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 08, 2018, 08:04:06 PM
Not sure if this is the starting unit but heard Frank was starting tonight.  Following just online.  Will watch later if I get the time.
Title: If not Butler ...
Post by: Kam on October 08, 2018, 09:50:16 PM
Who?


KD? Haha
Klay? hahahaha

Why would they leave?

Kemba Walker?i  Same age as Butler.
Tobias Harris?
Khris Middleton?
Title: Kam and Chip playing Poker
Post by: Kam on October 08, 2018, 10:29:54 PM
Kam: I see your bet and i raise you $20

Chip: Pass.

Kam: What do you mean pass?

Chip: I mean why do you have to raise the stakes?

Kam: It's Poker it's what you are supp --

Chip: I prefer to bet one $1 at a time and slowly build from dollars that i start with.

Kam: Well what if i gave you a coin flip at 5 to 1 odds for $20

Chip: You make a good case but nah.. still pass.

Kam: Chip .. 50/50 odds and you stand to win $100 against your $20.... how do you pass?

Chip: $100?  You think I want that?  That's tits.  $100 is just a pair of jiggely juggely tits and I for one sir am not interested in tits at all!

Kam: Ok then.  Forget it. I call.

Chip: I got 10 high.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on October 08, 2018, 10:41:53 PM
Downgrade at the pivot is great with Enes resting.
Title: I expect a lineup will be announced before the last pre-season game
Post by: Kam on October 08, 2018, 10:54:45 PM
The guys who start on Friday against the Nets are probably the squad that will open the season vs ATL.

Kanter
LT
Knox
Jr./Frank
Burke

Lee/Mudiay substitute backcourt (Frank swings to the SF)

Those 8 guys.  Plus some Vonleh in the mix.  Everyone plays about 24-30 minutes.

Everyone else: Dotson, Trier, Kornet, Baker et al....  spot duty.

Trier could eventually displace EM

Subpar Mario was a mistake gamble -- yucky player.  He will have his moments, but not enough to warrant paying to keep.

Injured: JoNo, MitchRob, KZ
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 08, 2018, 11:07:24 PM
Mudiay isnt ready for 24 minutes.

Clear he is on the outs with the staff.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 08, 2018, 11:08:26 PM
Cant say he didnt show tonight though

2 steals to go with his 4 assists and 3 boards - in TEN minutes of run
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 09, 2018, 07:28:01 AM
I actually saw him make two very sweet passes last night. Shocked I was ...
Title: Re: If not Butler ...
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 09, 2018, 07:30:41 AM
Quote from: Kam on October 08, 2018, 09:50:16 PM
Who?


KD? Haha
Klay? hahahaha

Why would they leave?

Kemba Walker?i  Same age as Butler.
Tobias Harris?
Khris Middleton?

Why would Thompson stay?  More shots/stardom elsewhere.
Title: Re: If not Butler ...
Post by: Kam on October 09, 2018, 12:26:21 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 09, 2018, 07:30:41 AM
Quote from: Kam on October 08, 2018, 09:50:16 PM
Who?


KD? Haha
Klay? hahahaha

Why would they leave?

Kemba Walker?i  Same age as Butler.
Tobias Harris?
Khris Middleton?

Why would Thompson stay?  More shots/stardom elsewhere.

He only wants to win.  He isn't into stardom.  He is a mega-star in China.  He doesn't care about all that. 

I think Draymond is the most likely to leave the Warriors.

I can see him taking his talents elsewhere.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on October 09, 2018, 12:49:45 PM
would 25 wins be too high or too low?

Title: Re: Kam and Chip playing Poker
Post by: thebizneverloses on October 09, 2018, 12:57:22 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 08, 2018, 10:29:54 PM
Kam: I see your bet and i raise you $20

Chip: Pass.

Kam: What do you mean pass?

Chip: I mean why do you have to raise the stakes?

Kam: It's Poker it's what you are supp --

Chip: I prefer to bet one $1 at a time and slowly build from dollars that i start with.

Kam: Well what if i gave you a coin flip at 5 to 1 odds for $20

Chip: You make a good case but nah.. still pass.

Kam: Chip .. 50/50 odds and you stand to win $100 against your $20.... how do you pass?

Chip: $100?  You think I want that?  That's tits.  $100 is just a pair of jiggely juggely tits and I for one sir am not interested in tits at all!

Kam: Ok then.  Forget it. I call.

Chip: I got 10 high.

*searching for the like button....*
Title: Knicks Picks
Post by: thebizneverloses on October 09, 2018, 12:58:15 PM
Forgot to do that! List your Knicks win totals here. Sorry if we already started and I've lost it.

Biz 23
Title: Pass
Post by: chipstern on October 09, 2018, 03:08:55 PM
(http://www.darnoldhiking.com/uploads/4/3/1/8/43181693/5229110_orig.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on October 09, 2018, 03:18:36 PM
beautiful picture.

25 wins
Title: Circling The Bowl, With The One And Only NAGEL
Post by: chipstern on October 09, 2018, 05:43:56 PM
Quote from: Nagel on October 09, 2018, 03:18:36 PM
beautiful picture.

25 wins

(https://media.giphy.com/media/zyMkpTTRC8I2k/giphy.gif)

Mid
Season
Form

(https://media.giphy.com/media/eba7Wg5j89NWo/giphy.gif)
Title: Kam Sandwich
Post by: chipstern on October 09, 2018, 05:46:48 PM
(https://media.giphy.com/media/VgcBQLWyH7tyo/giphy.gif)

Now In New EXTRA LITE

Title: * LIKE *
Post by: chipstern on October 09, 2018, 05:49:49 PM
Oh

(https://media.tenor.com/images/1fdcfe351ee5f36f6f2b4e4eefbdca1a/tenor.gif)

Snap

(http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/2/mercyy8ox.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 09, 2018, 08:34:32 PM
34.

I think we’ll actually work towards a way of playing this season that isn’t self defeating and I think we have more talent around than usual.

I think this team is actually easier to coach than prior iterations.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 09, 2018, 09:19:03 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 09, 2018, 08:34:32 PM
34.

I think we’ll actually work towards a way of playing this season that isn’t self defeating and I think we have more talent around than usual.

I think this team is actually easier to coach than prior iterations.

I was thinking 33 myself. 

Anyone beside me felt like we were getting pushed around without Enes, let alone being able to get some easy hoops inside.  Wizards are a playoff team, and they came out to kick our ass. 

I was not discouraged.  Still saw plenty of sweet things to ameliorate the bitter. 

How Mudiay ran the club and some incredibly sweet assists.  Still can't hit a shot.  Hey, Rondo not the most efficient shooter.  I don't agree with Kiid that Mudiay has lost the confidence of the coaching staff.  I think they are still looking to put him into situations where he can succeed. 

Trier continues to look like as big a steal as Robinson.  He was passing more. 

Hezonja still has the jitters and is trying to do too much, but he had some big league possessions.  He just needs to get the ball in rhythm and hit a trey or two to get into the flow.  He has game.  Right now, he lacks for confidence.  Vonleh looked over matched at times. 

Timmy was looking really good in transition, and as a result, threes began to fall. 

Frank showing really well on offense, and oddly in brain fart mode with a lot of dinky fouls. 

I loved that possession where Kornet blocked three shots. 

Oh, and Knox was in an offensive funk, and a turnover machine, but that's okay.  Take your beating like a man, and come back.  Of course, Berman in the POST intimated as to how we should have taken Mikal Bridges.  Hey, wish we could have taken BOTH.  Kevin will be just fine, douche nozzle. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 09, 2018, 10:40:43 PM
There are Triers to be found every year.......

Timothy John McConnell, anyone?

Hope he can play well enough to help.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 09, 2018, 10:48:31 PM
I think Trier is closer to the Jonathan Simmons level than Tim McConnell.

Trier might be our A1 guard sooner rather than later.

Kanter, Thomas, Knox, Hardaway, and Trier could be our best opening unit as KP mends and Frank and Mitch grow into their games.
Title: Re: Circling The Bowl, With The One And Only NAGEL
Post by: Nagel on October 10, 2018, 12:17:50 AM
Quote from: chipstern on October 09, 2018, 05:43:56 PM
Quote from: Nagel on October 09, 2018, 03:18:36 PM
beautiful picture.

25 wins

(https://media.giphy.com/media/zyMkpTTRC8I2k/giphy.gif)

Mid
Season
Form

(https://media.giphy.com/media/eba7Wg5j89NWo/giphy.gif)

one more than Biz chipster!!!
Title: Prediction
Post by: Kam on October 10, 2018, 12:54:36 AM
I see 33 wins maybe more
Title: Re: Knicks Picks
Post by: thebizneverloses on October 10, 2018, 03:20:49 AM
Biz 23
Nagel 25
Chip 33
Kam 33
Fac 34
Title: Re: Knicks Picks
Post by: carlos123 on October 10, 2018, 04:25:33 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on October 10, 2018, 03:20:49 AM
Biz 23
Nagel 25
Chip 33
Kam 33
Fac 34

Los 22
Title: KAM SANDWICH: A 40 Million Doillar A Year Lap Dance
Post by: chipstern on October 10, 2018, 12:43:36 PM
While teams trying to deal with the Timberwolves as the Jimmy Butler saga drags have expressed frustration with the asking price — Miami’s offer was centered around solid, young two-way guard Josh Richardson and a draft pick, but the Wolves sought to add deadweight salary into the mix — there’s also a good deal of trepidation about acquiring Butler, league executives told Sporting News.

"As good as Jimmy is, I think you have to be concerned about the impact he is going to have in the locker room, on your younger guys, on your coaching staff, all of that,” one general manager said. “He has gotten the benefit of the doubt, but if you look at his history, he’s had trouble getting along in Chicago and now in Minnesota.

– via Sporting News
Title: Negotiating through the media
Post by: Kam on October 10, 2018, 02:10:40 PM
They're just trying to bring the asking price down.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 10, 2018, 02:21:29 PM
Thanks for the update, Chipper.

Yeah, my guess as well is that Miami balked at including Adebayo. 

Miami being fiscally proper - but Dieng is a pretty good player - imagine - keeping salary mess out of it - how they could reign in the East with the addition of that duo - or at leastv give the top 3 a great run.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 10, 2018, 03:38:33 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 10, 2018, 02:21:29 PM
Thanks for the update, Chipper.

Yeah, my guess as well is that Miami balked at including Adebayo. 

Miami being fiscally proper - but Dieng is a pretty good player - imagine - keeping salary mess out of it - how they could reign in the East with the addition of that duo - or at leastv give the top 3 a great run.

My sense of things is that Minny is not trying to move Butler. 

Thibs has a dim bulb of an owner, and it's pretty clear that both he and Layden are on the clock. 

I am quite sure that Pat Riley feels as though Butler could be the missing piece towards possibly coming out of the East against Boston and Toronto, and that his organization's existing culture is such that it would transmute Butler and not the other way around. 

Also not sure it's simply a matter of Miami being financially proper, vis a vis Dieng. 

MIAMI has the HIGHEST PAYROLL in the NBA. 

I believe it comes down more to the fact that Dieng would be kind of redundant, and that adding him and his salary to any deal would necessitate Miami giving back some more young talents to make the number line up: Adebayo, Winslow.  Riles ain't going to do it. 

And again, Minny is a contending team in the West with Butler.  Taking back young players and draft picks puts Thibs back in re-build mode, and possibly on the unemployment line.  He will try and out-wait Butler, unless his owner intervenes, which every day becomes more of a possibility, as he loses patience with Tom and Scott. 

I believe most of the GMs in the league realize this, and as a result, are in no hurry to sweeten the pot. 

Such as the Clippers?  Sure, why not, but Jerry West didn't just fall off the back of a turnip truck, and he ain't going to include Tobias Harris in any deal.  Danilo Gallinari?  Sure, why not.  Good enough for the Wolves?  I doubt it. 

Trading two starters and a #1 to the Bulls for Butler has blown up in Thibs' face.  And whether the perception of Butler being an irascible type who does not get on with team mates is fair, that is the impression he is promulgating both through the timing of his demands, and the manner in which he has steadfastly refused to work out with his current team, even though he is still getting paid.   

Patience is a virtue, and as opening day looms, who knows.

Scott Perry was exceptionally patient with Melo, and made an honest effort to get him to the team of his choice.  When that boat had plainly sailed, and Perry had made it clear he was not going to be hog-tied into accepting a bad deal, having rekindled diplomatic relations with Anthony since the departure of Phool, he was able the day before training camp opened, to get Melo to relent and offer other teams he would accept a move to.  Resulting in a good deal for both teams, though one year removed, a much better deal for NY than we had any hopes of seeing.

Can only figure that if this isn't Layden's approach, then he is trying to maneuver Butler into staying for his Coach.  Difference is, that Perry was answering to Mills, as Dolan kept his distance, while in Wolves owner Glenn Taylor, a Thousand Sheets Longer Scott is a dealing with a considerably dimmer bulb...

And he wants Butler...G-O-N-E. 

Stay tuned. 
Title: This Just In
Post by: chipstern on October 10, 2018, 03:50:12 PM
All-Star Jimmy Butler participated in the Minnesota Timberwolves’ practice on Wednesday, a session that included him verbally challenging teammates, coaches and front office executives, league sources told ESPN. Butler was vociferous and emotional at times, targeting president/coach Tom Thibodeau, general manager Scott Layden and teammates Karl-Anthony Towns and Andrew Wiggins, league sources said. He had not practiced with the team so far this season after requesting a trade three weeks ago.
– via ESPN

Adrian Wojnarowski: At one point in a scrimmage, sources said, Butler turned to GM Scott Layden and screamed, “You (bleeping) need me. You can’t win without me.” Butler left teammates and coaches largely speechless. He dominated the gym in every way. Jimmy’s back.
– via Twitter wojespn

Darren Wolfson: Here’s Tolliver and Teague on Butler, who did practice today – neither would fully confirm. Another player via text when I asked how Butler looked: “I’m legally blind!” Also, RIP me. I have now officially died on the hill of Butler never wearing a #Twolves uniform again. pic.twitter.com/nk20gWmm7B
– via Twitter DWolfsonKSTP

HEY, WHAT COULD GO WRONG?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on October 10, 2018, 04:06:32 PM
31
Title: A High Five To The Prophet Kiid From An Unexpected Source
Post by: chipstern on October 10, 2018, 07:18:03 PM
Ian Begley: NYK rookie Mitchell Robinson, who didn’t play organized basketball last season, on spending some time with the Knicks’ G League team: “Honestly, I feel it would help a lot.”
– via Twitter IanBegley
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 10, 2018, 09:58:47 PM
There are a number of guys who would benefit from some G-League shuffling

Mitch Rob, Knox, Dotson, Frank, and if they all stay on the big roster, Kornet, Baker, and Mudiay.

The Butler vs. Minny stand-off has really killed the mood for preseason trades.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 10, 2018, 10:43:37 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 10, 2018, 09:58:47 PM
There are a number of guys who would benefit from some G-League shuffling

Mitch Rob, Knox, Dotson, Frank, and if they all stay on the big roster, Kornet, Baker, and Mudiay.

The Butler vs. Minny stand-off has really killed the mood for preseason trades.

Mmmmm...

Dotson and Kornet did their time last season. 

Knox, Ntilikina, Baker, Mudiay?

This does nothing for their confidence, nor does it fast track their growth.  They need to play against the big dogs. 

Fizz seems inclined to give Mitch rotation minutes, but getting 30-35 minutes a night in G League might facilitate Mitchell's offensive game in terms of post-ups and jump shots, not to mention building up his endurance. 

Opening night is what, one week from tonight?

Knicks have some interesting decisions to make. 

Trier certainly making a case for himself. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 10, 2018, 10:48:03 PM
Melo deal

I dont see it as to our benefit if

a)  Mudiay doesnt have the reins

and

b)   Knicks show no interest in keeping Kanter

Getting just a second rounder makes it now a POOR deal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 11, 2018, 12:13:28 AM
Mudiay hasn’t shown he can keep hold of the reins when given the chance to grasp them.

Kanter might be around longer than I and many others figured, if that's what he still wants.

I don’t think you can give use all your fouls & play gassed some games to our youth at the big league level. At the show, you’ve got to manage these guys’ minutes. GLeage lets them work on things in live action till they get them right. This helps them perform better at the top level when they come back up. It only hurts if you think of it as a demotion rather than a crash course. Miller has proven to be a good supplemental instructor during his Wee Knicks tenure so far. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 11, 2018, 01:11:43 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 10, 2018, 10:48:03 PM
Melo deal

I dont see it as to our benefit if

a)  Mudiay doesnt have the reins

and

b)   Knicks show no interest in keeping Kanter

Getting just a second rounder makes it now a POOR deal.

Hardly. 

That pick turned into Mitchell Robinson. 

Or are your still invested in running him down and explaining to Knicks fans how we have over valued him? 

As for Mudiay and Kanter, Fizz does not seem to be undervaluing them, and as remote as our free agent options look to be next summer, I don't think we should be greasing the skids for either of them to be cut loose. 

We surely saw how much we missed Kanter the other night. 

And as for Mudiay, as tentative as he still appears as a jump shooter and finisher, his passing was superb against the Wizards, and he was focused on D.  So the jury is still out, and Fizz does not strike me as the type to cry Uncle, be it Mudiay or Hezonja or Timmy. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 11, 2018, 12:19:59 PM
This is CARMELO ANTHONY we are talking about

A 1 and a 2 yields......well - a 1 and Robinson.

Am I wrong about getting nothing in the end with Kanter - unless we deal him midway on this year?

Hope for Mudiay (the McDermott spot)?  We will know soon.  MINUTES the first handful of games will tell if Fiz has any inclination of Emmanuel being here long term.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 11, 2018, 12:22:27 PM
Now....

if we win 40+ games and make the playoffs.......something I would NEVER - heh - PREDICT -

yeah, Kanter addition sure had major relevance.

Not Knicks fault KP went down (if you see us as 40+ with a  full strength Latvian)?  OK, I will give you that too.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on October 11, 2018, 12:38:12 PM
I would be conservative on Knicks win # as I see zero reason to rush KP back.

get him healthy, develop kids, get a juicy lottery pick

the future ain't this year

I think the o/u is 28, so i might go 24

Celts if healthy and lucky might push 60 this year.

FYI an interesting story out of the town you guys love to hate is that Ainge and Rozier are negotiating a 4-year $14-16m per year extension for KI's back-up .

In addition to the KI insurance, Rozier at that salary level is nice chip to help match-up in a trade package.

 
Title: Kanter
Post by: chipstern on October 11, 2018, 01:39:34 PM
The presumption that Kanter is out of here, or that he won't be re-upped, is specious.

Enes WANTS to be here, and gives us a skill set and toughness at the 5-spot.  Right now, he and Timmy are our two best players. 

[Insert Snarky Comments Here]

Knicks "fans" as is inevitable, pine for what they don't have, and piss away at what we DO HAVE. 

But hey, what do I know...

Finally, you were a champion of the Knicks accepting whatever detritus Houston offered us.  Perry resisted until Carmelo relented. 

The deal we got was the best one on the table. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on October 11, 2018, 02:22:52 PM
NY is leaving it's options open.  if NY wanted EK for a long term deal now I'm sure he would jump on it..

they don't need to make that decision now.  they did not offer KP his deal now so they could open a little more room for next year. 

they understand adding an A level player is part of the plan. KP understands this and is on board.  one of the reasons   for KP to come back and play some games is for next year's recruitment process.  the other is for his development. i have no interest in risking his health at any cost however.   Will any Type A free agent  take their money is the question?

I think someone will.
Title: Re: Kanter
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 11, 2018, 02:43:10 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 11, 2018, 01:39:34 PM
The presumption that Kanter is out of here, or that he won't be re-upped, is specious.

Enes WANTS to be here, and gives us a skill set and toughness at the 5-spot.  Right now, he and Timmy are our two best players. 

[Insert Snarky Comments Here]

Knicks "fans" as is inevitable, pine for what they don't have, and piss away at what we DO HAVE. 

But hey, what do I know...

Finally, you were a champion of the Knicks accepting whatever detritus Houston offered us.  Perry resisted until Carmelo relented. 

The deal we got was the best one on the table.

Anderson plus a #1, was it?

hmmm.........
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 11, 2018, 03:09:48 PM
Good GMing dodged that mess.
Title: Robinson
Post by: Kam on October 11, 2018, 03:35:37 PM
If we got a Houston #1 pick late in the draft we would have been lucky to snag a talent on the level of Mitch.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on October 11, 2018, 03:54:40 PM
Might have had to be a 2020 number 1....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 11, 2018, 04:42:46 PM
So a strong Center and developing backup center for Anthony, plus Mudiay. Works for me.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 11, 2018, 05:47:46 PM
I am sure they are happy that you are happy......though the point flew by you like beauty flies by Maxine Waters...

(and yes, Chip - overall it could be much worse - for instance had we yakked on the second rounder)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 11, 2018, 06:35:17 PM
I would've kept McDermott
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 11, 2018, 09:00:54 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 11, 2018, 05:47:46 PM
I am sure they are happy that you are happy......though the point flew by you like beauty flies by Maxine Waters...

(and yes, Chip - overall it could be much worse - for instance had we yakked on the second rounder)

The point completely falls apart on the fact that Ryan Anderson is a now crap player near toast on a horrible contract. Nice try though.
Title: Musical Starters
Post by: Kam on October 11, 2018, 10:14:30 PM
The starting five for Friday’s preseason finale against the Nets will be Knox, Ron Baker, Tim Hardaway Jr., Lance Thomas and Mitchell Robinson.

It marks the first start for both Baker and Robinson, though the other three have been mainstays.


---


Maybe he can get away with this in his first year but this is dumb. You should start who you will start...

I hope this isn't another 40+ different starting lineup season
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 11, 2018, 11:50:22 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 11, 2018, 09:00:54 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 11, 2018, 05:47:46 PM
I am sure they are happy that you are happy......though the point flew by you like beauty flies by Maxine Waters...

(and yes, Chip - overall it could be much worse - for instance had we yakked on the second rounder)

The point completely falls apart on the fact that Ryan Anderson is a now crap player near toast on a horrible contract. Nice try though.

On a 25-win team - just as usable as Kanter

Again - try to catch the point.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 12, 2018, 12:52:49 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 11, 2018, 11:50:22 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 11, 2018, 09:00:54 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 11, 2018, 05:47:46 PM
I am sure they are happy that you are happy......though the point flew by you like beauty flies by Maxine Waters...

(and yes, Chip - overall it could be much worse - for instance had we yakked on the second rounder)

The point completely falls apart on the fact that Ryan Anderson is a now crap player near toast on a horrible contract. Nice try though.

On a 25-win team - just as usable as Kanter

Again - try to catch the point.

With a contract that runs one year longer than Enes. 

Not worth it missing out on using 21mil next summer.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 12, 2018, 04:19:22 AM
Quote from: Kam on October 12, 2018, 12:52:49 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 11, 2018, 11:50:22 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 11, 2018, 09:00:54 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 11, 2018, 05:47:46 PM
I am sure they are happy that you are happy......though the point flew by you like beauty flies by Maxine Waters...

(and yes, Chip - overall it could be much worse - for instance had we yakked on the second rounder)

The point completely falls apart on the fact that Ryan Anderson is a now crap player near toast on a horrible contract. Nice try though.

On a 25-win team - just as usable as Kanter

Again - try to catch the point.

With a contract that runs one year longer than Enes. 

Not worth it missing out on using 21mil next summer.

Also, is it worth pointing out, besides the fact that Ryan can't hold Kanter's jock strap, that a Houston #1 pick IS TANTAMOUNT TO A SECOND ROUNDER. 

Gee, guess the point is still eluding me like a penis in Ann Coulter's panties. 
Title: Re: Knicks Picks
Post by: thebizneverloses on October 12, 2018, 04:23:08 AM

Los 22
Biz 23
Bank 24
Nagel 25
J Straw 31
Chip 33
Kam 33
Fac 34
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on October 12, 2018, 04:24:47 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 10, 2018, 02:21:29 PM
Thanks for the update, Chipper.

Yeah, my guess as well is that Miami balked at including Adebayo. 

Miami being fiscally proper - but Dieng is a pretty good player - imagine - keeping salary mess out of it - how they could reign in the East with the addition of that duo - or at leastv give the top 3 a great run.

Appears reasonably definitive now that after Miami successfully dodged taking on Dieng's contract, it came down to J-Rich, Waiters Island, and a far distant #1 (2023 I believe) for Butler. Thibo came back demanding more picks (either the 2025 or pick swaps) and Riley called him a "motherfucker" and hung up on him.
Title: Re: Musical Starters
Post by: thebizneverloses on October 12, 2018, 04:25:15 AM
Quote from: Kam on October 11, 2018, 10:14:30 PM
The starting five for Friday’s preseason finale against the Nets will be Knox, Ron Baker, Tim Hardaway Jr., Lance Thomas and Mitchell Robinson.

It marks the first start for both Baker and Robinson, though the other three have been mainstays.


---


Maybe he can get away with this in his first year but this is dumb. You should start who you will start...

I hope this isn't another 40+ different starting lineup season

It's pre-season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 12, 2018, 05:50:38 AM
Max paranoia until opening night lineups are announced. Keep those floor burns coming in search of a defined role. Let no one feel safe. Let all our Knicks work harder. A full day between the preseason finale and cut down day. Show our or get blown up time for quite a few on our roster.

Hopefully Frank feels it & Mario puts it together. We really need those guys.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 12, 2018, 08:25:27 AM
Quote from: chipstern on October 12, 2018, 04:19:22 AM
Quote from: Kam on October 12, 2018, 12:52:49 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 11, 2018, 11:50:22 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 11, 2018, 09:00:54 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 11, 2018, 05:47:46 PM
I am sure they are happy that you are happy......though the point flew by you like beauty flies by Maxine Waters...

(and yes, Chip - overall it could be much worse - for instance had we yakked on the second rounder)

The point completely falls apart on the fact that Ryan Anderson is a now crap player near toast on a horrible contract. Nice try though.

On a 25-win team - just as usable as Kanter

Again - try to catch the point.

With a contract that runs one year longer than Enes. 

Not worth it missing out on using 21mil next summer.

Also, is it worth pointing out, besides the fact that Ryan can't hold Kanter's jock strap, that a Houston #1 pick IS TANTAMOUNT TO A SECOND ROUNDER. 

Gee, guess the point is still eluding me like a penis in Ann Coulter's panties.

Wasnt direted at you
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 12, 2018, 08:33:51 AM
Nice future draft pick site

https://www.prosportstransactions.com/basketball/DraftTrades/Future/Knicks.htm (https://www.prosportstransactions.com/basketball/DraftTrades/Future/Knicks.htm)
Title: Re: Knicks Picks
Post by: Nagel on October 12, 2018, 12:06:22 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on October 12, 2018, 04:23:08 AM

Los 22
Biz 23
Bank 24
Nagel 25
J Straw 31
Chip 33
Kam 33
Fac 34

stern, you went nuts went i went for 25.  cartoons all over the place.  yet right now i am above 3 others.  you are a monstrous 8 above me.

where are your cartoons?  it's all silly since none of us know how many games KP will play and will he be effective when he does play.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on October 12, 2018, 12:38:18 PM
Knix might finally have some scorers from the 5, although not drafted, in Burke and Trier combined into a system that may work I can see 35 wins with a half season of KP? If KK progresses maybe 40.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on October 12, 2018, 12:46:07 PM
I love 20-20 monsters who get touchy feely about playing at the Garden even if they are not perceived as defenders.
Title: Predictions
Post by: Kam on October 12, 2018, 02:38:26 PM
KP will likely play the same number of games this season as last season.   At least that was a given in my thought process.

So it comes down to if you think we are better or worse than last year and if the opposition is more better or more worse
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 12, 2018, 03:01:28 PM
 Bill Oram: The Lakers announce they signed Scott Machado. Former Iona point guard spent last season with the South Bay Lakers.
– via Twitter billoram

 The Los Angeles Lakers have signed guard Scott Machado, it was announced today. Machado played in 46 games (22 starts) for the South Bay Lakers last season, averaging 15.9 points (.450 FG%, .405 3P%), 8.7 assists, 3.8 rebounds and 1.0 steals in 31.4 minutes per game. The Lakers roster stands at 18, including two two-way players.
– via NBA.com
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 12, 2018, 08:34:16 PM
After that first half, Fizz better be getting into some folks’ ears.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on October 12, 2018, 10:34:49 PM
Luke and Mario finally showed something.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 12, 2018, 11:47:31 PM
18. 8 and 4, 1 turnover for Russell

Who???
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 13, 2018, 01:42:11 AM
It almost seems like he could have been the 7th or 8th pick in his draft. Finally showing some potential. Let’s see if he can do it in the regular season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on October 13, 2018, 12:42:54 PM
In the age of, "well, it was just an exhibition game... I have to say losing to Brooklyn still sucks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on October 13, 2018, 12:45:12 PM
So.....without Butler Wolves give up a cool 143

Ouch.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on October 13, 2018, 02:20:13 PM
knicks played the Noah situation in pure knick fashion.

disastrously.

other players see how an organization operates .

NY?

only one word dysfunctional come to mind  for a very long time.

exactly when did Dolan acquire the team? since then.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on October 13, 2018, 02:48:42 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 12, 2018, 03:01:28 PM
Bill Oram: The Lakers announce they signed Scott Machado. Former Iona point guard spent last season with the South Bay Lakers.
– via Twitter billoram

 The Los Angeles Lakers have signed guard Scott Machado, it was announced today. Machado played in 46 games (22 starts) for the South Bay Lakers last season, averaging 15.9 points (.450 FG%, .405 3P%), 8.7 assists, 3.8 rebounds and 1.0 steals in 31.4 minutes per game. The Lakers roster stands at 18, including two two-way players.
– via NBA.com

Happy to see a good guy make some dough without having to go back overseas.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 13, 2018, 04:58:59 PM
Quote from: Nagel on October 13, 2018, 02:20:13 PM
knicks played the Noah situation in pure knick fashion.

disastrously.

other players see how an organization operates .

NY?

only one word dysfunctional come to mind  for a very long time.

exactly when did Dolan acquire the team? since then.

How do you figure? 

Dysfunctional? 

Keep him on the team until next year to satiate your idealized cap room designs? 

When he would be a disruptive force?  On a young evolving team.

So because the Knicks had few options other than taking their lumps and moving forward, it elicits a piss take and some overt whining?  And negates everything else the team has done moving forward Post-PHOOL. 

Noah was Phool's most appalling legacy.  Phul left a turd in the punch bowl. 

An while I was open to the notion of him being a part of the team, mentor in this transitional year, clearly Fizz floated the idea, but Noah did not bite.  Even as the Knicks paid him every penny and did not butt ream him for conduct unbecoming. 

Back to the drawing board, Nages.  Your slip is showing and you're stuck in rewind mode.

We now pause so my brother can offer up some strained sarcasm and say something snarky to justify this epic over reaction.  Have at me.

One word for your take comes to mind. 

CLICHE. 

PS: Let's see how many teams jump at the opportunity to sign Noah up. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 13, 2018, 05:43:16 PM
The dude Noah just wants to play

And we know he has more heart than 90% of the league's players
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 13, 2018, 05:56:12 PM
Future Knicks:

https://usatodayhss.com/2018/mclamb-my-six-favorite-players-from-team-usa-minicamp?utm_source=usatodayhighschoolsports&utm_medium=recirc&utm_campaign=rail-most-popular (https://usatodayhss.com/2018/mclamb-my-six-favorite-players-from-team-usa-minicamp?utm_source=usatodayhighschoolsports&utm_medium=recirc&utm_campaign=rail-most-popular)

Johnny Juzang!

Love it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 13, 2018, 06:37:25 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 13, 2018, 05:43:16 PM
The dude Noah just wants to play

And we know he has more heart than 90% of the league's players

Wants to get paid, too, apparently. 
Title: Mudiay & Knox And The Pitfalls Of Soft-Tanking
Post by: chipstern on October 13, 2018, 06:54:20 PM
Have been impressed with Mudiay's defense, court vision and composure in end game situations. 

Runs the team well, sees openings developing or about to develop, hits the open man (often in full stride and with a court length pass), gets the team into a good rhythm. 

Obviously his offensive shortcomings are holding him back, but his aptitude for the PG position keeps him in any discussion. 

Emmanuel will get his minutes, one way or another. 

Just watching a DVR of last night's game, while plenty to be dismayed about, any number of encouraging signs, such as Ntilikina's sense of purpose and command, Hezonja staying aggressive and starting to build some confidence and get in some sort of rhythm, the possibility of Kornet's treys and of interior D, Vonleh's aggression (a double edged sword), Robinson's talent, Dotson being opportunistic in limited minutes, and Timmy focusing more on attacking the rim rather than simply launching ICBMs. 

Defense?  Too many breakdowns and lack of cohesion and communication.  The heart is willing but the flesh is weak.  Nyets fed them their face, and they seemed baffled as to how to close out on the open three.  Coach & His Staff won't let them phone it in, and will live with the breakdowns (more or less) we saw last night, in lieu of effort and commitment.  But while there were flashes of good D, too many breakdowns and brain farts, and a tad lackadaisical at points.  WILL NOT DO. 

Knox?  Welcome to the NBA, rook.  Fizz force feeding him, which makes sense in a season of soft-tanking (I.E; developmental).  He has to stay aggressive, which seems to be Coach's M.O.  Not that Fizz is soft pedaling his shortcomings.  Asked about the reality of earned minutes, Fizz allowed as how Kevin is an exception, which acknowledging in no uncertain terms that his play in the last two games: "He STUNK."

Not so much that Knox has been anointed, as he has been given the green light to play through his inexperience and mistakes in this transitional season.  Have to figure as Fizz arrives at some more steady rotations, that Knox will learn to pick his spots better, and teammates will put him in a more positive position to succeed.

Back to Mudiay. 

Coach has indicated he wants to kind of top out floor minutes at around 28 on average. 

Again, the standard wisdom is shorter manageable rotations. 

I get it. 

But Fizz clearly wants to keep everyone on their toes and involved and pulling for each other. 

Ergo, spotting Frank minutes at 1-through-4 in the small ball epoch, to open up more minutes for both Burke and Mudiay. 

Building confidence in the likes of Hezonja and Vonleh and Kornet. 

I would expect, as per those 28 minutes, to see Kanter and Hardaway get more burn, more usage, and upon occasion, Knox, to force feed him and fast track the growth process, in which nothing succeeds quite like success, save perhaps for the lack of success, and how you bounce back. 

Am quite keen to see Lee come back, vis a vis all of the small ball, multi-PG sets Fizz seems to favor. 

Anyway, such is life on Planet Knickerbocker in the Soft Tanking Epoch.  And check out how out of their minds the Garden faithful were when we made that late Mudiay-Assisted Run.  Always a cheer for honest effort and tenacity. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 13, 2018, 09:21:49 PM
After the cut downs, it seems to look like this

Kanter Robinson Kornet
Thomas Vonleh KP
Knox Hezonja Lee
Hardaway Dotson Baker
Frank Mudiay Burke

Hicks Trier
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on October 14, 2018, 03:14:26 AM
Quote from: chipstern on October 13, 2018, 06:37:25 PM
Quote from: ChicoCarteroOcho on October 13, 2018, 05:43:16 PM
The dude Noah just wants to play

And we know he has more heart than 90% of the league's players

Wants to get paid, too, apparently.

Nothing wrong with that.

Alternative reality:
Noah goes, Sorry Mr. Dolan. Phool gave me too much of your money, so I’m gonna take only one third of it. Chip convinced me that’s the cool thing to do.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 14, 2018, 05:25:31 AM
For what we expect of Burke and for what we’re paying him, Trier could easily replace Burke if Miller’s man school in Westchester gets Trier tuned up the way it has past guards.

I think Frank won the PG contest early going away and Fizz is just keeping his cards close by playing Frank at PG and Wing in practice while only playing him at wing in preseason.

Mitchell Vonleh Thomas Dotson Ntilikina is our killer defensive unit if Frank can really run point. Replace Mitchell or Vonleh with KP and you have a unit that should prove fairly problematic for the league.

Kanter, Thomas, Knox or Mario with that backcourt would be fairly formidable. Hardaway can give you more pop though less grit than Dotson.

Will Atlanta have (and be able to keep) their shit together Wednesday night?

Will we?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 14, 2018, 10:02:20 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on October 14, 2018, 03:14:26 AM
Quote from: chipstern on October 13, 2018, 06:37:25 PM
Quote from: ChicoCarteroOcho on October 13, 2018, 05:43:16 PM
The dude Noah just wants to play

And we know he has more heart than 90% of the league's players

Wants to get paid, too, apparently.
Alternative reality:
Noah goes, Sorry Mr. Dolan. Phool gave me too much of your money, so I’m gonna take only one third of it. Chip convinced me that’s the cool thing to do.

Robin Lundberg
✔
@robinlundberg

Joakim Noah brought hustle to the Bulls and a totally different kind of hustle to the Knicks.

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/DistinctCandidBluet-small.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on October 14, 2018, 12:20:18 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 14, 2018, 10:02:20 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on October 14, 2018, 03:14:26 AM
Quote from: chipstern on October 13, 2018, 06:37:25 PM
Quote from: ChicoCarteroOcho on October 13, 2018, 05:43:16 PM
The dude Noah just wants to play

And we know he has more heart than 90% of the league's players

Wants to get paid, too, apparently.

Nothing wrong with that

Alternative reality:
Noah goes, Sorry Mr. Dolan. Phool gave me too much of your money, so I’m gonna take only one third of it. Chip convinced me that’s the cool thing to do.

Robin Lundberg
✔
@robinlundberg

Joakim Noah brought hustle to the Bulls and a totally different kind of hustle to the Knicks.


Jeff made me do it.
Love,
Joakim
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on October 14, 2018, 01:10:47 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 13, 2018, 06:37:25 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 13, 2018, 05:43:16 PM
The dude Noah just wants to play

And we know he has more heart than 90% of the league's players

Wants to get paid, too, apparently.

unlike every other player in the league.

we gain nothing in cap space by cutting him now instead of later .  worse players than him have been moved. I  finally agree with baby trump.  Noah has heart.  he would not have bitched about any role. Mentor, back-up if EK goes down or just wearing a suit and teaching robinson what it takes to be an NBA player. saying anything less is a sad thing to do.  he deserves better.





fight amongst yourselves.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 14, 2018, 02:56:00 PM
Quote from: Nagel on October 14, 2018, 01:10:47 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 13, 2018, 06:37:25 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 13, 2018, 05:43:16 PM
The dude Noah just wants to play

And we know he has more heart than 90% of the league's players

Wants to get paid, too, apparently.
unlike every other player in the league.

we gain nothing in cap space by cutting him now instead of later .  worse players than him have been moved. I  finally agree with baby trump.  Noah has heart.  he would not have bitched about any role. Mentor, back-up if EK goes down or just wearing a suit and teaching robinson what it takes to be an NBA player. saying anything less is a sad thing to do.  he deserves better.

fight amongst yourselves.

Uh, he DID BITCH ABOUT HIS ROLE, did he not? 

Or was his dustup with Hornacek a mirage? 

Happy to take the money.

Not happy to take the role. 

Why would the Knicks have signed Vonleh if Noah was amenable to being a role player? 

Riddle me that? 

I was all for Noah hanging out another year.  Thought it would be good for Robinson. 

Your assumption is that the KNICKS closed all doors...of course, right.  Because they are morons, unable to ascertain how much more money they would've saved in the summer of 2019.  If only Nagel had been hired as the cap management expert. 

Because, of course, NO WAY that Noah talked with Fizdale and indicated he was not prepared to ACCEPT A ROLE. 

Hey, the Lakers cut ties with Luol Deng, who like Noah, had two years left on his contract for similar money.  Could they have squeezed him for more?  No doubt.  A better stretch next summer?  Sure.  But they also concluded it was best to cut bait, and eat the money, cap wise, rather than have an unhappy camper moping around, who had even less of a roll to play with LA than Noah projected to have on the Knicks.   Were they morons? 

Now on the other hand, Courtney Lee had a conversation with Phizz, and WAS WILLING TO ACCEPT A ROLE.  Obviously he will be shopped should a good opportunity for the Knicks, and Lee, present itself. At this juncture, a moot point. 

Chemistry

VS

Cap Space

?

The Knicks concluded it was best to eat the money and commit to Kornet and Robinson, and showcase Kanter, rather than squeeze money from a stone and extend on what was a bad match all around. 

We move on.

Well, some of us move on. 

I am rather looking forward to the coming season, conscious as I am that the potential for ugliness goes hand in hand with the promise of growth. 

This is what an actual rebuild looks like.  I wish the earthly remains Of Noah well, and hope he finds a soft landing spot in which to end his career with some class and dignity.  Phool was enraptured by his past body of work.  Alas.  Not unlike Rose.  In any event, bad matches, Band Aides on the Titanic. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on October 14, 2018, 11:49:44 PM
Derrick Rose shot 47/87 for NYK and averaged a cool 18 a night.  Not sure what you mean re:  Rose and Jackson
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 15, 2018, 01:05:37 AM
Rose was historically bad defensively for us. I also notice you don’t cite his 3pt shooting stats. Why might that be?

Unlike Noah, who was slightly less effective on the floor, at least he came relatively cheap.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 15, 2018, 02:20:29 AM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on October 14, 2018, 11:49:44 PM
Derrick Rose shot 47/87 for NYK and averaged a cool 18 a night.  Not sure what you mean re:  Rose and Jackson

WHAT I Mean?

They

LOST

And ask anyone here, if I wasn't a fervent Rose Booster.  He was an exciting player, on an ending contract, who got his audition, and was a very dynamic scorer, but as far as being a POINT GUARD, he did not successfully involve his team mates, and so...choose your poison--Either IsoMelo or HeroBallRose, charging to the glass. 

As Facil points out, pretty weak defensively.  Still, before he, inevitably, got hurt, Rose gave us some high spirits, but clearly on the back end of his career, and not the PG of our dreams, or our future. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 15, 2018, 05:32:34 AM
If you scroll down in this twitter feed, there are some interesting notes about the most recent practice.

http://mobile.twitter.com/MikeVorkunov (http://mobile.twitter.com/MikeVorkunov)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 15, 2018, 07:23:02 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 15, 2018, 01:05:37 AM
I notice you don’t cite his 3pt shooting stats. Why might that be?



Because he inconsequentially took less than 1 a game
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 15, 2018, 11:11:45 AM
DRose didn't really facilitate the offense.  He just went for his.  He was good at that. But we have another guy to give us the ISO ball now in Trier.  Much less expensive and less of an ego.  Won't leave the team for mysterious reasons.  I assume.
Title: D-Rose
Post by: chipstern on October 15, 2018, 01:55:58 PM
I really liked Rose, but he was a frustrating figure. 

The lack of three-point range was not a deal breaker.

But his lack of facilitation, particularly given how he could seemingly get to the rack at will, was confounding. 

And between D and Melo, we got into too much 1-On-4 with everyone else standing around watching. 

Additionally, while I was enthusiastic about the trade at the time (sound familiar?), I came to regret the loss of Robin Lopez, a positive force on and off the court, particularly in light of the bottomless depths of disappointment to be experienced with the earthly remains of Noah. 

Curious about the odd relationships between some of our coaches and players on the bubble. 

I remember Lenny Wilkens did not want to play Dikembe Mutumbo...felt he was a step slow, which he was, but still a defensive force who went on to be a positive role player off the bench for the Houston Rockets upon leaving the Knicks. 

Then there was the odd communication breakdown between D'Antoni and Marbury.

And Hornacek's inexplicable yanking of Noah at Gar-BAHGE Time. 

Fizdale seems more conscious of building up everyone's confidence, without pulling his punches, and generally less inclined to embarrass his players.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 15, 2018, 01:59:15 PM
Gettin fired up for tomorrow night doubleheader........

Celts go to 0-1.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 15, 2018, 02:01:51 PM
Re:  RoLO

Heard a great interview on NBA Radio with the Bulls GM

Lets just say that YEAH, Lopez is a valued presence in his 11th (or is it 12th) year.

Also some nice analysis of how Hoiberg had to coach guys that werent really his when he first arrived - and now can tailor the team more to his system

I'd say a bit of an East sleeper - sure, those Bulls.  Wide open for 5th slot on.
Title: My GOD
Post by: chipstern on October 15, 2018, 02:03:40 PM
Just revisiting some draft classes on Basketball-Reference.com

My God, did Isaiah REALLY draft Renaldo Blackman ahead of both Rajon Rondo AND Kyle Lowry? 

To be a Knicks fan is to suffer. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 15, 2018, 02:20:55 PM
heh

Balkman.

He was a FREAK athlete, remember?

Looking for basketball players wasn't our strength.

(What skills did Sweetney possess?, remind me.  Passer?  Multpiple space board guy? Shot blocker?  Cerebral?  Warrior?  No?   heh)

Title: Re: My GOD
Post by: lesterluv on October 15, 2018, 02:41:36 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 15, 2018, 02:03:40 PM
Just revisiting some draft classes on Basketball-Reference.com

My God, did Isaiah REALLY draft Renaldo Blackman ahead of both Rajon Rondo AND Kyle Lowry? 

To be a Knicks fan is to suffer.

That draft still hurts...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 15, 2018, 03:44:17 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 15, 2018, 02:20:55 PM
heh

Balkman.

He was a FREAK athlete, remember?

Looking for basketball players wasn't our strength.

(What skills did Sweetney possess?, remind me.  Passer?  Multpiple space board guy? Shot blocker?  Cerebral?  Warrior?  No?   heh)

Ask Scott Layden.

At the time he exulted about his Georgetown connection. 

Dick Vitale was deeply offended.  Contended that Scott should have taken Nick Collison. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on October 15, 2018, 08:54:17 PM
Poor draft after the first 5 or 6

I remember many wanted Pietrus.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 15, 2018, 09:29:51 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on October 15, 2018, 08:54:17 PM
Poor draft after the first 5 or 6

I remember many wanted Pietrus.

True. 

That draft class was a dog. 

HOWEVER...

David West at #18

Boris Diaw at # 21

Kendrick Perkins #27
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on October 16, 2018, 01:33:58 AM
The smart play was to keep Noah on board. If he didn't play nice, banish him; it's a rebuilding year, you can live with the lost roster spot.

But the stretch I'm not a fan of, as I think the Knicks better chance in free agency is in 2020, not 2019. This front office has done mostly good stuff - Fiz, restraint in the Butler situation, Knox/Robinson/Trier. But there's still that myopia - signing Baker and Hardaway to contracts that may not have hurt on day 1 but were ill-advised nonetheless, and now the failure to think sufficiently long-term with the Noah stretch.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on October 16, 2018, 01:34:25 AM
Quote from: Kam on October 11, 2018, 06:35:17 PM
I would've kept McDermott

Not at his current contract, not for this team and the free agency aspirations the FO has.
Title: Re: Knicks Picks
Post by: thebizneverloses on October 16, 2018, 01:34:39 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on October 12, 2018, 04:23:08 AM

Los 22
Biz 23
Bank 24
Nagel 25
J Straw 31
Chip 33
Kam 33
Fac 34

Nobody else, then?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 16, 2018, 01:45:24 AM
Quote from: chipstern on October 15, 2018, 09:29:51 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on October 15, 2018, 08:54:17 PM
Poor draft after the first 5 or 6

I remember many wanted Pietrus.

True. 

That draft class was a dog. 

HOWEVER...

David West at #18

Boris Diaw at # 21

Kendrick Perkins #27

WTF are you smoking?

It was top heavy yeah... but one of the best classes ever based on the top alone.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Zupzup on October 16, 2018, 02:04:44 AM
30
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 16, 2018, 04:25:35 AM
Quote from: Kam on October 16, 2018, 01:45:24 AM
Quote from: chipstern on October 15, 2018, 09:29:51 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on October 15, 2018, 08:54:17 PM
Poor draft after the first 5 or 6

I remember many wanted Pietrus.

True. 

That draft class was a dog. 

HOWEVER...

David West at #18

Boris Diaw at # 21

Kendrick Perkins #27

WTF are you smoking?

It was top heavy yeah... but one of the best classes ever based on the top alone.

You just answered your own question, Kamburger. 

By the time it was time for the Knicks to pick?  The cupboard was bare.

What aspect of that concept eludes you? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 16, 2018, 08:45:11 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on October 16, 2018, 01:33:58 AM
The smart play was to keep Noah on board. If he didn't play nice, banish him; it's a rebuilding year, you can live with the lost roster spot.

But the stretch I'm not a fan of, as I think the Knicks better chance in free agency is in 2020, not 2019. This front office has done mostly good stuff - Fiz, restraint in the Butler situation, Knox/Robinson/Trier. But there's still that myopia - signing Baker and Hardaway to contracts that may not have hurt on day 1 but were ill-advised nonetheless, and now the failure to think sufficiently long-term with the Noah stretch.

I think the numbers may be different than many of us think

Isola and Scalbrine on Sirrius say that with the Noah stretch Knicks will have 31 mil to spend on a player in 2019-20.

They then go on to remind us that this does not include Kanter.  Joking around, they mimick Enes trying to recruit a big name - only to find out then that he cannot stay.

"Knicks need to shed some more money if they want to add a max guy and also keep Kanter".
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 16, 2018, 08:45:48 AM
KP not extended and will now be a restricted free agent when his deal is done.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 16, 2018, 08:49:14 AM
And now, this:

https://www.lakersnation.com/lakers-news-feed-joakim-noah-provide-much-needed-depth-at-center/2018/10/15/ (https://www.lakersnation.com/lakers-news-feed-joakim-noah-provide-much-needed-depth-at-center/2018/10/15/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on October 16, 2018, 09:09:46 AM
Fantasy leaders for Hawks-Knicks. Young is one.

https://sports.yahoo.com/nba/atlanta-hawks-new-york-knicks-2018101718/ (https://sports.yahoo.com/nba/atlanta-hawks-new-york-knicks-2018101718/)



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 16, 2018, 11:00:24 AM
Quote from: chipstern on October 16, 2018, 04:25:35 AM
Quote from: Kam on October 16, 2018, 01:45:24 AM
Quote from: chipstern on October 15, 2018, 09:29:51 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on October 15, 2018, 08:54:17 PM
Poor draft after the first 5 or 6

I remember many wanted Pietrus.

True. 

That draft class was a dog. 

HOWEVER...

David West at #18

Boris Diaw at # 21

Kendrick Perkins #27

WTF are you smoking?

It was top heavy yeah... but one of the best classes ever based on the top alone.

You just answered your own question, Kamburger. 

By the time it was time for the Knicks to pick?  The cupboard was bare.

What aspect of that concept eludes you?

That it wasn't a good draft.

Leandro Barbosa 28
Josh Howard 29
Baby Shaq 34
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on October 16, 2018, 12:15:19 PM
I'll go with 30.
Title: Knicks Nix Starting Knox
Post by: Kam on October 16, 2018, 01:53:50 PM
Trey
Frank
The Junior
Sir Lance
EKant Playdee
Title: Re: Knicks Picks
Post by: risingearly on October 16, 2018, 02:29:58 PM
I'll pick 32...

Quote from: thebizneverloses on October 16, 2018, 01:34:39 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on October 12, 2018, 04:23:08 AM

Los 22
Biz 23
Bank 24
Nagel 25
J Straw 31
Chip 33
Kam 33
Fac 34

Nobody else, then?
Title: Website just in case Elba dies again
Post by: Kam on October 16, 2018, 02:31:04 PM
https://www.facebook.com/groups/277665976422244/about/ (https://www.facebook.com/groups/277665976422244/about/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on October 16, 2018, 03:25:00 PM
Well tip off is in about 4 hours and hoping for a better opener than last year.

I think the challenge for Stevens will be keeping everyone happy as he divvys the PT. And as it seems Gordo is still not 100% he may ease the PT problem initially. He looked slow and tentative in the pre-season games I saw.

Celts are deep and good and expectations are high-with a very legit chance to play for the championship, But lets see how they stack up against one of the other expected Eastern heavyweights, the 76ers and then another game Friday against the Raptors, and then Saturday night in the other Garden.

Should be fun.

Good luck guys.

Title: Hard Knox & Hard Realities
Post by: chipstern on October 16, 2018, 03:45:17 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 16, 2018, 01:53:50 PM
Trey
Frank
The Junior
Sir Lance
EKant Playdee

Makes sense. 

Take a bit of pressure off of Kevin, and make him earn it. 

So who is the second unit then?

Mudiay/Baker
Dotson/Lee
Knox/Lee/Hezonja
Hezonja/Vonleh
Vonleh/Kornet/Robinson

Also, Mudiay tweaked his ankle, so we could see Ntilikina plugged in at 1-3, and Baker getting real minutes at the 1.

It BEGINS. 

PS: Perry indicated that A) Noah did not fit with this group going forward, B) Spent all that time this past summer up through end of training camp trying to find a trade partner, C) Too expensive to come to a deal, as... D) Knicks unwilling to surrender #1 picks. 

PPS: So, the much heralded benefits of a 2019 stretch, weighed against chemistry of 2018-2019 roster, were weighed and rejected.  No surprise there. 

PPPS: As per roster space and cap space in 2019-2020?  Having cap space does not automatically presuppose a free agent signing, though it might.  It also sets the table for deals where some other team is looking to unload a contract, and if there is a team, such as the Knicks, who have cap space to absorb such a hit, there might be #1 picks available as a sweetener. 

PPPPS: In reviewing the history of the Knicks' Drafts from 2000-2018 on BASKETBALL-REFERENCE.COM, it is chilling to observe how many years we were going into the draft without #1 picks, and without #2 picks as well. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 16, 2018, 03:50:29 PM
Not really news, but in a similar vein

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/251438/Knicks-Trying-To-Trade-Courtney-Lee (http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/251438/Knicks-Trying-To-Trade-Courtney-Lee)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 16, 2018, 05:30:13 PM
LOL

Picks are nice but being married to every one of them is silly.

"NY would prefer not to add a second rounder in order to deal Lee"

Yeah - and I'd prefer not to lose my hair...
Title: Draft Picks R Us
Post by: chipstern on October 16, 2018, 06:00:26 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 16, 2018, 05:30:13 PM
LOL

Picks are nice but being married to every one of them is silly.

"NY would prefer not to add a second rounder in order to deal Lee"

Yeah - and I'd prefer not to lose my hair...

Point taken...

Fortunately, for you, Phool ascribed to that point of view, and traded away quite a few second rounders, both to draft Hernan-Gomez, and, as you intimate, as a useful tool with which to get rid of a contract, such as Lee (or in Phool's case, Travis Outlaw).  I believe we have already traded our own 2020 and 2021 second rounders.  We got back some second rounders from Charlotte in exchange for Wily. 

Checking NBADraft.net, we are projected to have our own #9 and #39 picks for the summer of 2019, based on our 2017-2018 W-L.  I'm aware that you yawn at the mention of Mitchell Robinson, but THAT was a sweet project to fall in our laps at #36 (thanks to the Chicago Bulls by way of the OKC Thunder and the earthly remains of Carmelo Anthony). 

Again, I invite your derision by mentioning Ainge, who made a point of stockpiling draft picks, doling them out as he did with the Nyets #1 when he had an opportunity to offload it for Kyrie Irving. 

We got Dotson with a second rounder.  We got Robinson with a second rounder. 

And hey, now that I think of it, back in the day, we got PHIL JACKSON with a second rounder.

And...

AND?

WILLIS REED
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 16, 2018, 06:09:46 PM
There were like 8 teams drafting back then CHIP :)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 16, 2018, 06:40:41 PM
https://www.prosportstransactions.com/basketball/DraftTrades/Future/Knicks.htm (https://www.prosportstransactions.com/basketball/DraftTrades/Future/Knicks.htm)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 16, 2018, 06:42:32 PM
Says we have EIGHT second rounders in the next three drafts
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 16, 2018, 07:12:03 PM
I would guess teams are asking for more than one 2nd rounder
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 16, 2018, 07:12:31 PM
The commercial for "The Grinch" featuring JR Smith is great.
Title: Re: Knicks Picks
Post by: AdeTheOba on October 16, 2018, 07:36:47 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on October 12, 2018, 04:23:08 AM

Los 22
Biz 23
Bank 24
Nagel 25
J Straw 31
Chip 33
Kam 33
Fac 34
[/quote

I'm projecting 23
Title: Transactions?
Post by: chipstern on October 16, 2018, 07:58:30 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 16, 2018, 06:42:32 PM
Says we have EIGHT second rounders in the next three drafts

Let's see.  Do not think we have eight second rounders between now and 2021. 

Sixers own Knicks 2020 & 2021 second rounders from Hernan-Gomez trade. 

Knicks own Hornets 2020 & 2021 second rounders from Hernan-Gomez trade. 

So that's two. 

Do we own our #2 for 2019? 

If so, that is three. 

We have the Rockets 2019 #2 from the Prignoni Trade.

Cleveland's 2019 #2 from the Shumpert-JR exchange. 

So that's five. 

Some sort of 2019 swap out of second most least desirable pick from the Kyle O'Quinn transaction  with Orlando.

And one of our #2 picks went to the Kings as compensation for signing Scott Perry.   Not sure which.

So that's four? 

So, for 2019, as I understand it, we own either our own #2 or that of the Kings or Orlando or Cleveland?  Pretty much a wash, that. 

From 2022 on, we have all of our own #2 picks. 

Not sure how you came up with eight.

In any event, thanks for posting that transactions link. 

PS: Point well taken, Kam.  Nine teams in the league when Reed was selected. 

Two Territorial Picks

1  CIN    George Wilson         
2  LAL    Mahdi Abdul-Rahman   

Round 1      

3   1   NYK   Jim Barnes   
4   2   DET   Joe Caldwell   
5   3   BAL   Gary Bradds   
6   4   PHI   Luke Jackson   
7   5   STL   Jeff Mullins   
8   6   SFW   Barry Kramer   
9   7   BOS   Mel Counts   

Round 2      

10   8   NYK   Willis Reed   
11   9   DET   Les Hunter
12   10   STL   Paul Silas   
13   11   PHI   Ira Harge                                          
14   12   LAL   Cotton Nash      
15   13   NYK   Howard Komives
16   14   SFW   Bud Koper      
17   15   CIN   Bill Chmielewski                                       
18   16   BOS   Ron Bonham   

Round 3      

19   17   NYK   Brian Generalovich                                    
20   18   DET   Wali Jones   
21   19   BAL   Jerry Sloan   

I believe we ended up trading Barnes in the Bellamy deal.

And of course, Bellamy & Komives for Dave D. 

Point being, having second rounders and good scouting, is better than having no second rounders. 

Robinson dropping and we pounced.  No second rounder from Melo Deal, no sale. 

Trier dropping out of the draft entirely.  Good scouting.  Pounced. 

In any event

SiXERS vs CELTICS

Here we go, 2018-2019. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 16, 2018, 08:26:20 PM
Looks like SEVEN

Magic second rounder in 2019 listed is a SWAP situation, where they have the option to take one of our picks if it is higher.  We get their pick, but give one.  Rockets, Cavs, Knicks picks start as ours.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 16, 2018, 08:27:29 PM
2020 and 2021 are the added picks (so we have 2 each year) from Willy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 16, 2018, 08:29:27 PM
Fizz announces the starting starting lineup

Kanter Thomas Ntilikina Hardaway Burke

Robinson 
Vonleh
Hezonja Dotson
Knox Lee
Trier Baker

With Mudiay, KP, Hicks, and Kornet in street clothes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 16, 2018, 09:05:26 PM
Should be interesting to see if Frank guards Trae Young.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 16, 2018, 09:35:09 PM
He’ll draw Prince most likely. Should be a fun matchup.

Trey vs. Trey unless Atlanta also benches it’s lotto pick.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 16, 2018, 09:38:16 PM
Love watching Young

Frank should be able to pile up boards.

I will say a line of 11-8-3 with 4 steals.

That'd be a nice start.
Title: Big Wings Ballhandler
Post by: chipstern on October 16, 2018, 09:54:08 PM
Horford
Brown, Hayward, Tatum
Irving

Kanter
Hardaway, Nitilinka, Thomas
Burke

The Modern NBA Template
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 16, 2018, 09:56:51 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 16, 2018, 08:26:20 PM
Looks like SEVEN

Magic second rounder in 2019 listed is a SWAP situation, where they have the option to take one of our picks if it is higher.  We get their pick, but give one.  Rockets, Cavs, Knicks picks start as ours.

Interesting
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 16, 2018, 10:06:30 PM
MORRIS has been real good tonight

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on October 16, 2018, 10:16:20 PM
when KI  and Gordo take off the rust, they might be ok.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on October 16, 2018, 10:23:44 PM
I haven't bought a poster since my college days, but Jaylen jamming on Embiid is must have.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 16, 2018, 10:26:18 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on October 16, 2018, 10:16:20 PM
when KI  and Gordo take off the rust, they might be ok.

Rozier is INSPIRED. 

Irving AND Rozier AND Smart.

Multiple points.  What a concept. 

Rozier wants that contract.  Love the way the Celtics brought him along like bourbon in an aged oak barrel. 

Man, being able to bring Morris, Baynes, Rozier and Smart off the bench. 

Stevens found a way to give everyone meaningful minutes.  NINE DEEP. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 16, 2018, 10:27:51 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on October 16, 2018, 10:23:44 PM
I haven't bought a poster since my college days, but Jaylen jamming on Embiid is must have.

Word. 

Although, that Embid hook shot was sweet. 

Simmons baffles me. 

Great rhythm and pace.  Gets to the rack at will.

Can't shoot a lick.

WTF? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on October 16, 2018, 10:41:44 PM
Embiid is a force, no ifs and or buts.

Simmons: If teams can keep him out of the the paint that's half the battle

And i'm still trying to figure out a Simmons/Fultz backcourt where neither guy can shoot.

I didn't see much of Fultz, (watching the Sox) but the little I did he was a non-factor.

SSS but Celts have too much talent/too deep for the 76ers

Title: Alfred Joel Horford Reynoso
Post by: chipstern on October 16, 2018, 10:55:26 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on October 16, 2018, 10:41:44 PM
Embiid is a force, no ifs and or buts.

Simmons: If teams can keep him out of the the paint that's half the battle

And i'm still trying to figure out a Simmons/Fultz backcourt where neither guy can shoot.

I didn't see much of Fultz, (watching the Sox) but the little I did he was a non-factor.

SSS but Celts have too much talent/too deep for the 76ers

Sir Charles hallucinating.

"Such a thing as having too much talent."

Bullshit. 

Stevens deployed a nine-man rotation to great effect. 

Charles thought Baynes should play more and Brown less. 

The Jet begged to differ.  As well he should. 

PS: Interesting stat.  Al Horford has been on nothing but winning teams.  Coincidence?  Now THAT'S The Kind Of Cat You Give Max Dollars to.

PPS: Just a reminder Knicks fans.  Gordon Hayward.  Drafted by Utah with the final #1 pick from the Marbury Trade.  Yes sir, Knicks fans, trading away our draft picks--A GIFT WHICH KEEPS GIVING. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 16, 2018, 10:55:54 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on October 16, 2018, 10:23:44 PM
I haven't bought a poster since my college days, but Jaylen jamming on Embiid is must have.

The shot actually banked in.  Very athletic by the great Brown.  Good to see he got almost his deserved minutes tonight.
Title: Re: Alfred Joel Horford Reynoso
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 16, 2018, 11:29:36 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 16, 2018, 10:55:26 PM


PPS: Just a reminder Knicks fans.  Gordon Hayward.  Drafted by Utah with the final #1 pick from the Marbury Trade.  Yes sir, Knicks fans, trading away our draft picks--A GIFT WHICH KEEPS GIVING.

uh huh

You have to stop with this shit already
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on October 16, 2018, 11:45:24 PM
Did we do predictions?

31 wins

I'd go for 82, but maybe that's a bit too optimistic this season even with Knox and Robinson already expected to make the all-star team as rookies.
Title: Frank
Post by: Kam on October 17, 2018, 12:39:26 AM
Looks like he has the Tony Parker passing gene + the Boris Diaw stretch-i-ness positionally and in raw length.

Excited he is starting.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 17, 2018, 01:18:18 AM
Looking at the play of Tatum vs. Fultz, it’s very clear why Philly had to sack its entire management.

The Celtics buried the Sixers with that trade. It’s worse than what Ainge did to the Nyets. At least the old dudes Brooklyn got were somewhat productive for a while.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Urethra_Franklin on October 17, 2018, 03:43:11 AM
36 wins
Title: Re: Knicks Picks
Post by: lesterluv on October 17, 2018, 09:02:04 AM
Quote from: AdeTheOba on October 16, 2018, 07:36:47 PM


Los 22
Biz 23
Bank 24
Nagel 25
J Straw 31
Chip 33
Kam 33
Fac 34
[/quote

I'm projecting 23

Max Knick wins during the Porzingis era = 32.
This year = Porzingis era without Porzingis.
For the most part, we have been jettisoning talent in exchange for projects and picks and seem likely (Lee) to continue down that path. (No problems with it.)
Our most productive player is likely gone next year and plays a position the league seems hell-bent to make obsolete.
None of our rookies project to add meaningfully to this year's win total.
21 seems intellectually honest.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 17, 2018, 09:19:46 AM
Curry starts the year 55/56/100
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 17, 2018, 09:20:36 AM
Porzingis will return by MLK Day
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 17, 2018, 09:53:11 AM
Maybe. Maybe. But if he wasn't inclined to be cautious already, the lack of the extension may trigger extra caution. He and his bro don't fool around with his career.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 17, 2018, 10:11:29 AM
Reminder to all

League Pass is FREE this week.

Wanna see TWolves

Heh - wouldnt surprise me if they beat Spurs and run out 5-1 or so.
Title: Re: Knicks Picks
Post by: carlos123 on October 17, 2018, 10:15:24 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on October 17, 2018, 09:02:04 AM
Quote from: AdeTheOba on October 16, 2018, 07:36:47 PM


Los 22
Biz 23
Bank 24
Nagel 25
J Straw 31
Chip 33
Kam 33
Fac 34
[/quote

I'm projecting 23

Max Knick wins during the Porzingis era = 32.
This year = Porzingis era without Porzingis.
For the most part, we have been jettisoning talent in exchange for projects and picks and seem likely (Lee) to continue down that path. (No problems with it.)
Our most productive player is likely gone next year and plays a position the league seems hell-bent to make obsolete.
None of our rookies project to add meaningfully to this year's win total.
21 seems intellectually honest.

Les, I like you, but don’t appreciate your going one lower than me.

Biz, can I change my bet to 20? Or one below Les if he tries to undercut me again.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 17, 2018, 10:27:27 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 17, 2018, 01:18:18 AM
Looking at the play of Tatum vs. Fultz, it’s very clear why Philly had to sack its entire management.

The Celtics buried the Sixers with that trade. It’s worse than what Ainge did to the Nyets. At least the old dudes Brooklyn got were somewhat productive for a while.

Weird trade.  Philly had Ben Simmons who is LeBron-like in that he is tall and dominates the ball. You want him dominating the ball because he is so good.  So you had your ball-handler.  So you trade up to draft a smaller ball-handler who is not as good??

And if that wasn't enough they make the same mistake again the next draft trading for another backcourt guy in Zhaire Smith.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 17, 2018, 10:30:42 AM
Quote from: Kam on October 17, 2018, 10:27:27 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 17, 2018, 01:18:18 AM
Looking at the play of Tatum vs. Fultz, it’s very clear why Philly had to sack its entire management.

The Celtics buried the Sixers with that trade. It’s worse than what Ainge did to the Nyets. At least the old dudes Brooklyn got were somewhat productive for a while.

Weird trade.  Philly had Ben Simmons who is LeBron-like in that he is tall and dominates the ball. You want him dominating the ball because he is so good.  So you had your ball-handler.  So you trade up to draft a smaller ball-handler who is not as good??

And if that wasn't enough they make the same mistake again the next draft trading for another backcourt guy in Zhaire Smith.

Yeah, guards rule, seems.......

Fultz is 20 years, 5 months old - and will be with Philly another 6-7 years at least

No rush.

Title: Re: Knicks Picks
Post by: lesterluv on October 17, 2018, 10:30:53 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on October 17, 2018, 10:15:24 AM

Les, I like you, but don’t appreciate your going one lower than me.

Biz, can I change my bet to 20? Or one below Les if he tries to undercut me again.

:) You know it's actually damn hard to lose 21 games in this league. I think your 22 is a pretty good bet.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 17, 2018, 10:35:19 AM
For you futbol guys:

https://twitter.com/PurelyFootball/status/1052559603693703169 (https://twitter.com/PurelyFootball/status/1052559603693703169)

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on October 17, 2018, 10:54:16 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 17, 2018, 10:30:42 AM
Quote from: Kam on October 17, 2018, 10:27:27 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 17, 2018, 01:18:18 AM
Looking at the play of Tatum vs. Fultz, it’s very clear why Philly had to sack its entire management.

The Celtics buried the Sixers with that trade. It’s worse than what Ainge did to the Nyets. At least the old dudes Brooklyn got were somewhat productive for a while.

Weird trade.  Philly had Ben Simmons who is LeBron-like in that he is tall and dominates the ball. You want him dominating the ball because he is so good.  So you had your ball-handler.  So you trade up to draft a smaller ball-handler who is not as good??

And if that wasn't enough they make the same mistake again the next draft trading for another backcourt guy in Zhaire Smith.

Yeah, guards rule, seems.......

Fultz is 20 years, 5 months old - and will be with Philly another 6-7 years at least

No rush.

At which time, kid will formally announce his winner of the Tatum + lottery pick for Fultz trade, which shall be known as the Lonzo Ball Award.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 17, 2018, 11:05:04 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 17, 2018, 10:30:42 AM
Quote from: Kam on October 17, 2018, 10:27:27 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 17, 2018, 01:18:18 AM
Looking at the play of Tatum vs. Fultz, it’s very clear why Philly had to sack its entire management.

The Celtics buried the Sixers with that trade. It’s worse than what Ainge did to the Nyets. At least the old dudes Brooklyn got were somewhat productive for a while.

Weird trade.  Philly had Ben Simmons who is LeBron-like in that he is tall and dominates the ball. You want him dominating the ball because he is so good.  So you had your ball-handler.  So you trade up to draft a smaller ball-handler who is not as good??

And if that wasn't enough they make the same mistake again the next draft trading for another backcourt guy in Zhaire Smith.

Yeah, guards rule, seems.......

Fultz is 20 years, 5 months old - and will be with Philly another 6-7 years at least

No rush.

So in 6-7 years they will play with two basketballs? 

No.

So it almost doesn't matter how much Fultz improves OVER what Tatum is doing.  If he ever does.

It would still create a problem with who the offense runs through.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 17, 2018, 11:25:48 AM
Yep.  Like with Earl and Clyde

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 17, 2018, 11:33:53 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on October 17, 2018, 10:54:16 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 17, 2018, 10:30:42 AM
Quote from: Kam on October 17, 2018, 10:27:27 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 17, 2018, 01:18:18 AM
Looking at the play of Tatum vs. Fultz, it’s very clear why Philly had to sack its entire management.

The Celtics buried the Sixers with that trade. It’s worse than what Ainge did to the Nyets. At least the old dudes Brooklyn got were somewhat productive for a while.

Weird trade.  Philly had Ben Simmons who is LeBron-like in that he is tall and dominates the ball. You want him dominating the ball because he is so good.  So you had your ball-handler.  So you trade up to draft a smaller ball-handler who is not as good??

And if that wasn't enough they make the same mistake again the next draft trading for another backcourt guy in Zhaire Smith.

Yeah, guards rule, seems.......

Fultz is 20 years, 5 months old - and will be with Philly another 6-7 years at least

No rush.

At which time, kid will formally announce his winner of the Tatum + lottery pick for Fultz trade, which shall be known as the Lonzo Ball Award.

Celts already didnt get what they really wanted in the deal - Doncic.

As this season rolls along and the Kings wins pile up, the deal looks more and more like just Tatum and a lottery prayer for Ball.

Ainge seemingly did well with choosing Tatum over Jackson, I give him that.

And withiout Ball for years, youc an tell me how good Celts MIGHT have been.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on October 17, 2018, 12:44:03 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 17, 2018, 11:33:53 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on October 17, 2018, 10:54:16 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 17, 2018, 10:30:42 AM
Quote from: Kam on October 17, 2018, 10:27:27 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 17, 2018, 01:18:18 AM
Looking at the play of Tatum vs. Fultz, it’s very clear why Philly had to sack its entire management.

The Celtics buried the Sixers with that trade. It’s worse than what Ainge did to the Nyets. At least the old dudes Brooklyn got were somewhat productive for a while.

Weird trade.  Philly had Ben Simmons who is LeBron-like in that he is tall and dominates the ball. You want him dominating the ball because he is so good.  So you had your ball-handler.  So you trade up to draft a smaller ball-handler who is not as good??

And if that wasn't enough they make the same mistake again the next draft trading for another backcourt guy in Zhaire Smith.

Yeah, guards rule, seems.......

Fultz is 20 years, 5 months old - and will be with Philly another 6-7 years at least

No rush.

At which time, kid will formally announce his winner of the Tatum + lottery pick for Fultz trade, which shall be known as the Lonzo Ball Award.

Celts already didnt get what they really wanted in the deal - Doncic.

As this season rolls along and the Kings wins pile up, the deal looks more and more like just Tatum and a lottery prayer for Ball.

Ainge seemingly did well with choosing Tatum over Jackson, I give him that.

And withiout Ball for years, youc an tell me how good Celts MIGHT have been.

How many ways do you insist on compounding your inability to admit a mistake about Tatum v Fultz and Balll?

My concern over the Kings is that they end-up sucking grandly, end up with the # 1 pick, which then would stay with Philly, and the Celts get a 20-something pick instead of a 2-3-4-5, whatever.

The Kings winning too many games this year is not remotely a concern of mine.

In either case Tatum + a #1 is a steal for Fultz, and is one more reminder to NBA GMs to think twice abouta deal Ainge wants to do.

and the Celts never had a shot at Doncic. The only high lottery pick they had in the '18 draft was the Nets #1 (which was was the 8th pick ) which went to Cleveland for KI.

And Ball might turn into a very good NBA player, but he, and the rest of the Ball family, were not in the Celtics plan last year.

They got the guy they wanted.

Plus a nice draft pick too.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 17, 2018, 12:54:40 PM
Nope

Celtics would have gotten the Lakers pick if it fell 2-5 - you know this.  And your clover-assed brethren counted on it.

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 17, 2018, 01:11:33 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on October 17, 2018, 12:44:03 PM


How many ways do you insist on compounding your inability to admit a mistake about Tatum v Fultz and Balll?



I made a mistake?

I had Ball as best player in the draft.  Never said who I thought was after that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on October 17, 2018, 01:27:27 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 17, 2018, 12:54:40 PM
Nope

Celtics would have gotten the Lakers pick if it fell 2-5 - you know this.  And your clover-assed brethren counted on it.

heh

Wrong again kid.

Ainge is not a fortune teller, but he had a good idea the Lakers would be a lottery team, but he could not foretell the Lakers hitting the 2-5 lottery window (what was it the 9?) so he got King '19 pick as insurance.  A smart move.

And being stocked with both players that go 9+ deep and with several #1 lottery picks as assets, last years Laker pick could easily be deferred (and prefered) to be pushed a year out the future. 

if I have one criticism of the Ainge trade with Philly, and I had it at the time, its the #1 protection he gave Philly in both years.

The Celts gave up a #1 pick, IMO Philly should have been at risk one of those years.

But I assume he figured Tatum plus a #1 was too good to pass for Fultz under any condition.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on October 17, 2018, 01:34:43 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on October 16, 2018, 10:23:44 PM
I haven't bought a poster since my college days, but Jaylen jamming on Embiid is must have.

I love Jaylen, but he didn't jam. He was blocked, mostly, and the ball banked in. Everyone is freaking out over a spectacular miss.

Again, I love Jaylen.
Title: Re: Knicks Picks
Post by: thebizneverloses on October 17, 2018, 01:40:06 PM
Quote from: risingearly on October 16, 2018, 02:29:58 PM
I'll pick 32...

Quote from: thebizneverloses on October 16, 2018, 01:34:39 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on October 12, 2018, 04:23:08 AM

Los 22
Biz 23
Bank 24
Nagel 25
J Straw 31
Chip 33
Kam 33
Fac 34

Nobody else, then?

Cool...have we met, btw?
Title: Re: Knicks Picks
Post by: thebizneverloses on October 17, 2018, 01:40:31 PM
Los 20
Les 21
Biz 23
Ade 23
Bank 24
Nagel 25
Zup 30
Yank 30
Ike 31
J Straw 31
Early 32
Chip 33
Kam 33
Fac 34
Klint 36
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on October 17, 2018, 01:43:11 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 17, 2018, 01:11:33 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on October 17, 2018, 12:44:03 PM


How many ways do you insist on compounding your inability to admit a mistake about Tatum v Fultz and Balll?



I made a mistake?

I had Ball as best player in the draft.  Never said who I thought was after that.

Kid as you were pumping Ball as ROY 1) you seemed blissfully unaware of Simmons, Tatum and other rookies who were outplaying your boy, 2) while you were carrying on your 1-kid PR campaign for Lonzo you seemed equally unaware that he was hurt and missed about 20 games mid-season, all but taking him out of the running for an award he was not going to win any way, 3) and while you were needlessly pumping up Ball, for reasons known only to you, you took obvious delight in trashing Tatum as he was putting together a pretty good rookie year, which now you have seem to have forgotten.

So yes, I would say you made a few mistakes in judgement.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on October 17, 2018, 01:46:35 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on October 17, 2018, 01:34:43 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on October 16, 2018, 10:23:44 PM
I haven't bought a poster since my college days, but Jaylen jamming on Embiid is must have.

I l.ove Jaylen, but he didn't jam. He was blocked, mostly, and the ball banked in. Everyone is freaking out over a spectacular miss.

Again, I love Jaylen.

"Jam" seemed to capture the essence of the move and Jaylen's attack to the rim and going straight at Embiid.

And in real time it happened so quick, I couldn't tell what really happened until I saw the replay.

lets call it poetic license
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 17, 2018, 01:50:32 PM
I don't throw this word around at all, but you fucking LIE, banks.

With LA at 11-27 and for some time after, worst record in the league, there was all kinds of talk in Celticland about getting that high lottery pick in 2018.

Could still be a pretty good player they get via Kings/Sixers in 2019 - we'll see

And even if it is not, even if it is a total MISS, you are in pretty decent shape.

DECENT suits you.  Maybe when it falls short you can buy another title.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 17, 2018, 01:54:16 PM
Celts are the Yanks of hoops

The "once-was"

1 title in 32 years
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on October 17, 2018, 02:18:55 PM
Seems I struck a nerve with kid.

Sure if the Lakers hit the 2-5 lottery window there would have been a 2-5 pick for the Celts, but it was hardly a lock to happen.

So as that probability was unknown and uncertain at best, Ainge also got an insurance policy.

Kid the only lie here are those you endlessly spin about what you've posted and you're inability to own your own words.

Its what a poorly socialized immature kid would do.

And 1-in 32 is a taunt?

Ok

LOL
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 17, 2018, 02:26:46 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 17, 2018, 10:11:29 AM
Reminder to all

League Pass is FREE this week.

Wanna see TWolves

Heh - wouldnt surprise me if they beat Spurs and run out 5-1 or so.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on October 17, 2018, 02:30:13 PM
The Ringer and Zach Lowe himself have predicted Kevin Durant to the Knicks next summer.

If the Knicks add RJ, Reddish, Zion, or Little, I could see it happening. Would need to move either Courtly or THJr to make space, mind you.

That would, uh, be pretty good.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on October 17, 2018, 03:04:30 PM
KD to NY makes sense if he wants his own team.

GS is Curry's team despite KD being the second best player on the planet.

KD in Ny has a similar feel as lebron in LA.

If KP comes back and is healthy that would give NY a dynamic 1-2 combination.

adding a top draft pick after this year won't hurt either.

i think it is a possibility. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 17, 2018, 04:14:53 PM
Instant 50+ wins

Is it 58-60-62 and a top seed?
Is it an NBA finalist?

That would depend on the other pieces and the staff.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 17, 2018, 04:19:26 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on October 17, 2018, 02:30:13 PM
The Ringer and Zach Lowe himself have predicted Kevin Durant to the Knicks next summer.

If the Knicks add RJ, Reddish, Zion, or Little, I could see it happening. Would need to move either Courtly or THJr to make space, mind you.

That would, uh, be pretty good.
\


Yeah..... for some reason I recall bigger numbers being tossed around but latest I hear is that Knicks post Noah deal will have about 31 mil to spend.
Title: Kevin Durant
Post by: chipstern on October 17, 2018, 06:50:30 PM
Been down this road before, have we not? 

Knick On Wood.

We need to proceed as if no one is coming. 

I am dubious about Durant leaving the Warriors. 

Why? 

Because it is "Curry's Team".

That's thin.

Anyway...

Ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Urethra_Franklin on October 17, 2018, 07:58:04 PM
I think I'm starting to hate Timmy more than I did Melo
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 17, 2018, 08:20:46 PM
Quote from: Urethra_Franklin on October 17, 2018, 07:58:04 PM
I think I'm starting to hate Timmy more than I did Melo

His shot selection might lead to Zion.
Title: Tank Lineup in play
Post by: Kam on October 17, 2018, 08:30:20 PM
Frank
Ron

and the three rookies

LOL.  We might be watching the two most tankiest teams.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on October 17, 2018, 08:32:15 PM
 Ok.  If we lose tonight....

14-68

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Urethra_Franklin on October 17, 2018, 08:44:42 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 17, 2018, 08:20:46 PM
Quote from: Urethra_Franklin on October 17, 2018, 07:58:04 PM
I think I'm starting to hate Timmy more than I did Melo

His shot selection might lead to Zion.

I spake way too soon lol
Title: Knox and Allan
Post by: Kam on October 17, 2018, 08:47:19 PM
Knox's first two makes were of the Allan Houston Series-Clinching Runner in Miami variety.  Fitting for #20.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 17, 2018, 08:48:07 PM
Quote from: Urethra_Franklin on October 17, 2018, 08:44:42 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 17, 2018, 08:20:46 PM
Quote from: Urethra_Franklin on October 17, 2018, 07:58:04 PM
I think I'm starting to hate Timmy more than I did Melo

His shot selection might lead to Zion.

I spake way too soon lol

His early shot selection was selfish and rushed.

He's slowed down.

Started when he began attacking the rim rather than chucking long bombs.

THjr might be Fizdale's most important mission this season.

If he can get Tim to take the next step... maybe we don't need that big Free Agent

His no look behind the back pass to Ekant was sublime...
Title: 49 point 2nd quarter??!
Post by: Kam on October 17, 2018, 09:06:47 PM
Franchise Record for points in a 2nd Q.
Most points in a Q this season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 17, 2018, 09:08:25 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 17, 2018, 08:48:07 PM
Quote from: Urethra_Franklin on October 17, 2018, 08:44:42 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 17, 2018, 08:20:46 PM
Quote from: Urethra_Franklin on October 17, 2018, 07:58:04 PM
I think I'm starting to hate Timmy more than I did Melo

His shot selection might lead to Zion.

I spake way too soon lol

His early shot selection was selfish and rushed.

He's slowed down.

Started when he began attacking the rim rather than chucking long bombs.

THjr might be Fizdale's most important mission this season.

If he can get Tim to take the next step... maybe we don't need that big Free Agent

His no look behind the back pass to Ekant was sublime...

Fiz doesnt have to do shit

Natural progression in THJ's career.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 17, 2018, 09:10:24 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 17, 2018, 09:08:25 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 17, 2018, 08:48:07 PM
Quote from: Urethra_Franklin on October 17, 2018, 08:44:42 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 17, 2018, 08:20:46 PM
Quote from: Urethra_Franklin on October 17, 2018, 07:58:04 PM
I think I'm starting to hate Timmy more than I did Melo

His shot selection might lead to Zion.

I spake way too soon lol

His early shot selection was selfish and rushed.

He's slowed down.

Started when he began attacking the rim rather than chucking long bombs.

THjr might be Fizdale's most important mission this season.

If he can get Tim to take the next step... maybe we don't need that big Free Agent

His no look behind the back pass to Ekant was sublime...

Fiz doesnt have to do shit

Natural progression in THJ's career.

Well now we know where you stand on the Nature vs Nurture debate.

Tim has always been capable of good games.  Fizdales mission is getting them to come consistently.  Even when the shot aint falling.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 17, 2018, 10:00:29 PM
The best coaches just stay out the way - and stay positive.

Seems to be in Fiz's coaching DNA to do just that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Pharoah on October 17, 2018, 10:23:11 PM
(https://media.giphy.com/media/TrKYvOKdnGQbkthn2S/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 17, 2018, 10:27:11 PM
That was a beautiful game.

It was anchored by 2 double-doubles and the invisible hand of Frank.

Ekant is beautiful. I’d like to adopt it, if that’s ok, Kam.

I’m glad the clock doesn’t start on 2ways for a little while.

I think we’re gonna see Longball Luke dress while Young Mitch heals and becomes a better monster.

Everyone still has a lot to learn after this one, but I really like the players assembled and their deployment throughout the game. I hope there will be hell to pay in the film sessions and at the next practice, not a hot hell but a witheringly sarcastic one - all about the details and about how the Celtics will kill you for doing this or that.

The more I think about it, the more I think it’s ok that KP and MR really can take time together on a side hoop and lay some intense roots in working out a two-man game on both ends. Safely, in slow-mo, they can put in the work. If health holds, we’ll be in good shape with Ekant (?) Vonleh and Kornet upfront for a while.

I hope fervently that of the guys not playing tonight that Dameon, Daredevil, Big-tits, Dotson survives the inevitable upcoming biggish guard purge. I have less strong feelings about Lee or Mudiay.

Maybe the Hawks will take one. It seems like they could use some help.

We’re not supposed to be very good without KP, ever.
Title: Manna From Heaven...Allonzo Trier
Post by: chipstern on October 17, 2018, 11:05:54 PM
Proof There Is A God. 

(https://www.ancient-code.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Manna-Food.jpg)

And SHE Is A Knicks Fan. 
Title: It's A Start [a.k.a. NOBODY BEATS THE FIZZ]
Post by: chipstern on October 17, 2018, 11:07:36 PM
(http://turksam.org/resimler/genel/images/1(33).jpg)

YES
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 18, 2018, 02:12:19 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 17, 2018, 10:27:11 PM

Ekant is beautiful. I’d like to adopt it, if that’s ok, Kam.


Go right ahead.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 18, 2018, 04:36:35 AM
I took a look at Bklyn vs. Detroit. Brooklyn is very short handed at the moment, but they are still worlds better than the Hawks. The trick seems to be wearing them down which we have the style and the horses to do. They have a lot of fight in them. Dudley, who I’m thinking about calling Subway while he’s in Brooklyn, is throwing out shades of post-Hawk Boris Diaw.

Langston Galloway is finding his way in the league. Casey is going to get a lot of work out of him. Kenard also looked good.

Knox needs to watch film of a young T. Prince under Larry Brown.

I’m really glad the coaching staff is letting players commune directly with Clyde. It can only help these young Knicks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 18, 2018, 06:22:24 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 18, 2018, 04:36:35 AM
I took a look at Bklyn vs. Detroit. Brooklyn is very short handed at the moment, but they are still worlds better than the Hawks. The trick seems to be wearing them down which we have the style and the horses to do. They have a lot of fight in them. Dudley, who I’m thinking about calling Subway while he’s in Brooklyn, is throwing out shades of post-Hawk Boris Diaw.

Langston Galloway is finding his way in the league. Casey is going to get a lot of work out of him. Kenard also looked good.

Knox needs to watch film of a young T. Prince under Larry Brown.

I’m really glad the coaching staff is letting players commune directly with Clyde. It can only help these young Knicks.

When Knox came off the bench tonight, it was to spell Lance Thomas.  I liked how he kept aggressive, even when the fruit wasn't falling.  It will.

Was gratified to see Hezonja start to find a comfort zone.  He is genuinely athletic.  We knew he could shoot.  Nice passer, even if he has been forcing things, but we get the idea.  And he had what, three steals. 

Sorry Mitchell tweaked his ankle again, but the upside was that Vonleh got significant minutes spelling Kanter.  They made for a formidable presence, with twin double doubles. 

Anyone want to chime in on Ron & Timmy's contracts?  Ron setting a defensive tone in Mudiay's ankle/absence, and Timmy with one of his best all-around games as a Knick.  Loved his aggression getting to the rack and not settling for treys.  A couple of heat checks, but a really mature all-around game, and sure enough, get a few layups and here come some made treys. 

Allonzo Trier with a John Starks moment on opening night.  Will be even more effective as he gets more adept at passing out of double teams.  How are the Knicks going to finesse his roster spot.  In Trier's case, the G-League most definitely does not beckon.  Nice problem to have. 

Trey and Frankie playing with confidence and spirit. 

Love me some Enes. 

I love how the Knicks got after it on defense for 48 minutes, brain farts notwithstanding.  Good effort, and the Garden crowd just ate it up.  Something to root for. 

Nyets are a lot tougher than the Hawks.  Well coached, tough defensively, and have shown the Knicks that they can light it up from trey.  A worthy challenge once the luster wears off from opening night. 

And the Celtics Juggernaut on Saturday. 

No moral victories. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 18, 2018, 08:17:53 AM
Little bit off on Frankie (predicted 11-8-3 with 4 steals)

Finishes 5-5-1-3

I guess checking the 3 was tough for him as well......or was it Tim on Prince?

But like I said on another forum - if we allow less than 30 in the first quarter and are down by 4 or less (or leading) then the lineup stays the same.
Title: Re: Knicks Picks
Post by: lesterluv on October 18, 2018, 09:42:44 AM
Those first six minutes unspeakably awful. What followed, sublime.
Against the Hawks. (Note to Carlos: Might be hard to stay at 20 if we play that team four times.)
Will wait to retract this until we play an actual basketball team ...
Quote from: lesterdog on October 17, 2018, 09:02:04 AM
None of our rookies project to add meaningfully to this year's win total.
... but that kid Trier.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on October 18, 2018, 01:39:21 PM
how do the the  Las Vegas bookies feel about the season?


Atl 23.5
Bos 57.5
Brk 32.5
Cha 35.5
Chi 27.5
Cle 30.5
Dal 34.5
Den 47.5
Det 37.5
GS 62.5
Hou 54.5
Ind 47.5
LAC 35.5
LAL 48.5
Mem 34.5
Mia 41.5
Mil 46.5
Min 44.5
NO 45.5
NY 29.5
OKC 50.5
Orl 31.5
Phi 54.5
Phx 28.5
Prt 41.5
Sac 25.5
SA 43.5
Tor 54.5
Uth 48.5
Wsh 44.5

obviously this is for betting purposes only.  .



Title: THAT Kid
Post by: chipstern on October 18, 2018, 01:40:10 PM
(http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2009/03/22/magazine/22cover-395.jpg)

(https://thenypost.files.wordpress.com/2018/09/trier.jpg?quality=90&strip=all&w=618&h=410&crop=1)

(http://a.espncdn.com/media/motion/2018/1017/dm_181017_NBA_One_Play_Trier_throws_down_vicious_dunk/dm_181017_NBA_One_Play_Trier_throws_down_vicious_dunk.jpg)

Title: Re: Knicks Picks
Post by: chipstern on October 18, 2018, 01:43:39 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on October 18, 2018, 09:42:44 AM
Those first six minutes unspeakably awful. What followed, sublime.
Against the Hawks. (Note to Carlos: Might be hard to stay at 20 if we play that team four times.)
Will wait to retract this until we play an actual basketball team ...
Quote from: lesterdog on October 17, 2018, 09:02:04 AM
None of our rookies project to add meaningfully to this year's win total.
... but that kid Trier.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/TrKYvOKdnGQbkthn2S/giphy.gif)
Title: Obviously
Post by: chipstern on October 18, 2018, 01:50:53 PM
Quote from: Nagel on October 18, 2018, 01:39:21 PM
how do the the  Las Vegas bookies feel about the season?


Atl 23.5
Bos 57.5
Brk 32.5
Cha 35.5
Chi 27.5
Cle 30.5
Dal 34.5
Den 47.5
Det 37.5
GS 62.5
Hou 54.5
Ind 47.5
LAC 35.5
LAL 48.5
Mem 34.5
Mia 41.5
Mil 46.5
Min 44.5
NO 45.5
NY 29.5
OKC 50.5
Orl 31.5
Phi 54.5
Phx 28.5
Prt 41.5
Sac 25.5
SA 43.5
Tor 54.5
Uth 48.5
Wsh 44.5

obviously this is for betting purposes only.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/yidUzG5KHfHkdi1sQ0/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 18, 2018, 02:10:49 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 18, 2018, 08:17:53 AM
Little bit off on Frankie (predicted 11-8-3 with 4 steals)

Finishes 5-5-1-3

I guess checking the 3 was tough for him as well......or was it Tim on Prince?

But like I said on another forum - if we allow less than 30 in the first quarter and are down by 4 or less (or leading) then the lineup stays the same.

Early in the game Frank's defense on the perimeter forced a bad pass where Tim picked up the steal.

The BOX score doesn't capture that under Frank which seems unfair.

Defense can't accurately be quantified with Steals and Blocks.

Frank may never post Russell Westbrookian stat lines where his greatness is easily appreciated.

One must see Frank to love Frank.

Title: Re: Knicks Picks
Post by: Kam on October 18, 2018, 02:13:21 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on October 18, 2018, 09:42:44 AM
Those first six minutes unspeakably awful. What followed, sublime.
... but that kid Trier.

How about that fan that hit the halfcourt shot and sparked the team?
Title: Re: Knicks Picks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 18, 2018, 03:24:31 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 18, 2018, 02:13:21 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on October 18, 2018, 09:42:44 AM
Those first six minutes unspeakably awful. What followed, sublime.
... but that kid Trier.

How about that fan that hit the halfcourt shot and sparked the team?

Season MVP so far.

How do we get him to hit that shot at road games?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 18, 2018, 03:27:58 PM



Atl 23.5 -  U
Bos 57.5 - U
Brk 32.5 - U
Cha 35.5 - O
Chi 27.5 - O
Cle 30.5 - O
Dal 34.5 - U
Den 47.5 - U
Det 37.5 - O
GS 62.5 - O
Hou 54.5 - O
Ind 47.5 - O
LAC 35.5 - U
LAL 48.5 - U
Mem 34.5 - U
Mia 41.5 - O
Mil 46.5 - O
Min 44.5 - U
NO 45.5 - O
NY 29.5 -
OKC 50.5 - U
Orl 31.5 - O
Phi 54.5 - O
Phx 28.5 - O
Prt 41.5 - O
Sac 25.5 - O
SA 43.5 - O
Tor 54.5 - O
Uth 48.5 - U
Wsh 44.5 - U

.
Title: A happy team
Post by: Kam on October 18, 2018, 04:17:18 PM
As impressive as the Knicks’ season-opening rampage was, they were facing a Hawks club with a chance of posting the NBA’s worst record. Trying to rid them of any sense of complacency, Fizdale showed film Thursday of only mistakes.

“A happy team is a soft team,” Fizdale said. “I told them, ‘What did you do? You didn’t do anything. We took care of home.’ We got into the film and watched a lot of mistakes we made. And guys were great in the film session, correcting each other. We didn’t watch anything that was positive.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 18, 2018, 07:35:45 PM
Sounds like Fizz is trying to get them mean and hungry for the Nyets - Celtics back to back.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 18, 2018, 09:06:43 PM
A game and a half in, and Fultz looks like a broken shell.
Maybe he'll get it going as early as next half, but if he doesn't, sooner than later, the folks on the floor playing to win are gonna get awful tired of waiting.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 18, 2018, 10:26:55 PM
Looks like a what?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 18, 2018, 11:54:58 PM
Looks better than Trey Young. Only a year away from being a year away.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 19, 2018, 01:22:26 AM
Fultz looks better than Ball as well.

Hart looks a lot lot lot better than both of them.

Lakers need to uncork Beasley if they are going to have any chance this year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 19, 2018, 08:07:07 AM
I hear Luke is looking for advice

Dial 1-800-DUM-FUKK
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 19, 2018, 10:09:35 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 18, 2018, 10:26:55 PM
Looks like a what?

You're not really gonna make me explain, right?


*** OK, OK, like somebody reached way deeeeep down on in and ripped out his soul

*** Alright, let me put it to you a different way. Do you remember Erick Dampier's body language late in the game as Amare was outscoring him 40-0 in Phoenix's blowout over Dallas?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 19, 2018, 10:20:31 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 19, 2018, 08:07:07 AM
I hear Luke is looking for advice

Dial 1-800-DUM-FUKK

That was a phone sex line. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 19, 2018, 01:38:44 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 19, 2018, 10:20:31 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 19, 2018, 08:07:07 AM
I hear Luke is looking for advice

Dial 1-800-DUM-FUKK

That was a phone sex line.

Yeah, one where they keep panting at you to play Lonzo Ball more, especially in crunch time.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on October 19, 2018, 01:48:06 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 18, 2018, 02:10:49 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 18, 2018, 08:17:53 AM
Little bit off on Frankie (predicted 11-8-3 with 4 steals)

Finishes 5-5-1-3

I guess checking the 3 was tough for him as well......or was it Tim on Prince?

But like I said on another forum - if we allow less than 30 in the first quarter and are down by 4 or less (or leading) then the lineup stays the same.

Early in the game Frank's defense on the perimeter forced a bad pass where Tim picked up the steal.

The BOX score doesn't capture that under Frank which seems unfair.
 Defense can't accurately be quantified with Steals and Blocks.

Frank may never post Russell Westbrookian stat lines where his greatness is easily appreciated.

One must see Frank to love Frank.

Sorry but I do not understand the love for Frank outside of being a #1 draft choice. Great, nowhere close. At best an old school defensive specialist but with potential. Trier, Burke, and Hezonja what finds! Dumpster diving at the highest level. Such a different atmosphere for the knix who used to indiscriminately throw big bucks at any FA available.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 19, 2018, 02:07:47 PM
Quote from: luee on October 19, 2018, 01:48:06 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 18, 2018, 02:10:49 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 18, 2018, 08:17:53 AM
Little bit off on Frankie (predicted 11-8-3 with 4 steals)

Finishes 5-5-1-3

I guess checking the 3 was tough for him as well......or was it Tim on Prince?

But like I said on another forum - if we allow less than 30 in the first quarter and are down by 4 or less (or leading) then the lineup stays the same.

Early in the game Frank's defense on the perimeter forced a bad pass where Tim picked up the steal.

The BOX score doesn't capture that under Frank which seems unfair.
 Defense can't accurately be quantified with Steals and Blocks.

Frank may never post Russell Westbrookian stat lines where his greatness is easily appreciated.

One must see Frank to love Frank.

Sorry but I do not understand the love for Frank outside of being a #1 draft choice. Great, nowhere close. At best an old school defensive specialist but with potential. Trier, Burke, and Hezonja what finds! Dumpster diving at the highest level. Such a different atmosphere for the knix who used to indiscriminately throw big bucks at any FA available.

Frank played 34 minutes last night. 
Tim was next with 29 minutes.
No one else had more than 27.

So its not just a handful of us Elbanians touting him.
Coach sees the value in a guy who can play the swiss army knife in lineups where playing fast requires unselfish long-armed players.

If you just look at stat lines and box scores and dont watch you are missing out.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 19, 2018, 02:11:42 PM
Quote from: luee on October 19, 2018, 01:48:06 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 18, 2018, 02:10:49 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 18, 2018, 08:17:53 AM
Little bit off on Frankie (predicted 11-8-3 with 4 steals)

Finishes 5-5-1-3

I guess checking the 3 was tough for him as well......or was it Tim on Prince?

But like I said on another forum - if we allow less than 30 in the first quarter and are down by 4 or less (or leading) then the lineup stays the same.

Early in the game Frank's defense on the perimeter forced a bad pass where Tim picked up the steal.

The BOX score doesn't capture that under Frank which seems unfair.
 Defense can't accurately be quantified with Steals and Blocks.

Frank may never post Russell Westbrookian stat lines where his greatness is easily appreciated.

One must see Frank to love Frank.

Sorry but I do not understand the love for Frank outside of being a #1 draft choice. Great, nowhere close. At best an old school defensive specialist but with potential. Trier, Burke, and Hezonja what finds! Dumpster diving at the highest level. Such a different atmosphere for the knix who used to indiscriminately throw big bucks at any FA available.

With all due respect, what game were you watching?

There's a significant reason why Coach Fizz played Frank more minutes than anyone, including Timmy. 

Like in boxing, where everyone is enchanted by big punchers, when the idea is NOT TO GET HIT. 

You are looking at Frank's stat line, when you should be looking at the final score. 

Like there is something less than manly about being a defensive specialist? 

Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet.
Title: Defense
Post by: Kam on October 19, 2018, 02:35:58 PM
Defense is half the game.

Ideally KP/Vonleh/Robinson are the last line of defense in the paint.

But you need a front line too. Especially in the age of the three pt shot.

We got a guy in Frank who could be our 3 and D guy.

Sprinkle in one or two other "defensive specialiasts" and you have the recipe for a respectable NY Knicks team.
Title: Re: Defense
Post by: Kam on October 19, 2018, 02:37:20 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 19, 2018, 02:35:58 PM


Sprinkle in one or two other "defensive specialiasts" and you have the recipe for a respectable NY Knicks team.

We have some guys who might fit that bill in Ron and Lance.  But they won't be here next year I think.
Title: Re: Knicks Picks
Post by: bodiddley on October 19, 2018, 04:39:31 PM
Just back from vacation.

Quote from: thebizneverloses on October 17, 2018, 01:40:31 PM
Los 20
Les 21
Biz 23
Ade 23
Bank 24
Nagel 25
Zup 30
Yank 30
Ike 31
J Straw 31
Early 32
Chip 33
Kam 33
Fac 34
Klint 36

We started a list earlier.
I was the first with some real low number and Carlos immediately undercut me.  I forget what exactly I chose (21?), but I'll go with the rather popular 23.  We won't win much, KZ might sit out longer than expected, but there are a lot of equally bad or worse teams out there (including ATL), and these Knix at least have energy and youth. 

Trier is interesting and confident.
How did Vonleh look?His box impresses in short minutes.
Title: Re: Defense
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 19, 2018, 06:47:51 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 19, 2018, 02:35:58 PM
Defense is half the game.

Ideally KP/Vonleh/Robinson are the last line of defense in the paint.

But you need a front line too. Especially in the age of the three pt shot.

We got a guy in Frank who could be our 3 and D guy.

Sprinkle in one or two other "defensive specialiasts" and you have the recipe for a respectable NY Knicks team.

Our WHAT and D guy?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 19, 2018, 08:30:55 PM
First 2 rebounds of the year for Knox

Now we look for that first assist.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on October 19, 2018, 10:24:36 PM
Entertaining game between evenly matched teams. Yes is the worst for homerism. KK did some nice things. Mostly though the Tim and Enes show. It looks like a good rebuild year.
Title: Re: Defense
Post by: facilitatorn on October 19, 2018, 10:29:39 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 19, 2018, 06:47:51 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 19, 2018, 02:35:58 PM
Defense is half the game.

Ideally KP/Vonleh/Robinson are the last line of defense in the paint.

But you need a front line too. Especially in the age of the three pt shot.

We got a guy in Frank who could be our 3 and D guy.

Sprinkle in one or two other "defensive specialiasts" and you have the recipe for a respectable NY Knicks team.

Our WHAT and D guy?

If he had backcourt mates who bothered to have a clue about how to set him up it would really be a big help in that department. His stroke is fine as are his decisions to launch. 11 & 5.5 & 1.5 steals is a good start and platform to grow for young Frank. He is the best guard on this team. I also think he adequately replaces Jared Jack of last year as the adult in the room.

Chuckaway chucked one away. Helps keep things to my possibly low number.

I also fail to see anything Baker really brings to the table that Dotson does not also bring to the table while lots of things Dotson brings that Baker can’t jump right out at me.

Good thing Hardaway is stepping in. I wasn’t sure we were going to have our Melo this year. Burke aids and abets this which is my only knock on Trey.

Knox had a growth game with its goods and its bads.

Ekant gave a great game.

It seems Fizz is still learning, still a very entertaining game. An even tougher one is coming.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on October 19, 2018, 10:31:58 PM
Impressed with the low turnovers, but that can't surmount a defense inconsistent, THJ's low efficiency and the rest of the guards low productivity.
Knox won't start so fast, so folks can relax, unless Fizdale is crazier than I thought.

P.S. do we really have to type a verification (I can barely read) for every post now? (or if someone posts at the same time as me!) OMG....Death of the forum looms if so...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 19, 2018, 11:49:45 PM
Holy shit. Utah with 81 first half points against the Warriors.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 20, 2018, 02:08:31 AM
Quote from: PrezIke on October 19, 2018, 10:31:58 PM

P.S. do we really have to type a verification (I can barely read) for every post now? (or if someone posts at the same time as me!) OMG....Death of the forum looms if so...

It seems it goes away after awhile ... at least it happened to me, after I was about to swear off the place forever.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 20, 2018, 03:44:22 AM
Probably if you delete the cookie(s) associated with the Elba site it'll stop.  Alternatively, you could log in using a different browser, if you have more than one installed.

So:

- bring it to Jerebko!

- Butler averaging 28 / 7 / 3 & 4 steals after two games.
Guy plays hard and a Top 5 2-way player.
His experiments in leadership are certainly dubious.
And I'd worry about how his alpha-dickhead approach would affect KZ.
But the guy has talent and plays hard.

Didn't see the game, but:
- looks like Knox had a good game
- BKY has limited talent.
- I am a LaVert fan.  If he can just reign in his wild side a little, he can be really good.  Great finisher.
- 14 assists won't cut it
- Tim with 25 FG's and 0 assists
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 20, 2018, 04:42:51 AM
Quote
- 14 assists won't cut it
Tim with 25 FG's and 0 assists

And there’s the rub...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on October 20, 2018, 09:30:07 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 17, 2018, 04:19:26 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on October 17, 2018, 02:30:13 PM
The Ringer and Zach Lowe himself have predicted Kevin Durant to the Knicks next summer.

If the Knicks add RJ, Reddish, Zion, or Little, I could see it happening. Would need to move either Courtly or THJr to make space, mind you.

That would, uh, be pretty good.
\


Yeah..... for some reason I recall bigger numbers being tossed around but latest I hear is that Knicks post Noah deal will have about 31 mil to spend.

Not only does it depend on which players we keep (Kanter, Burke, Mudiay, Lance) or trade (Courtly, THJr), but also where we draft. Big difference in salary earmarked for a 1st pick versus a 10th pick. You just have to guess a little this far out.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on October 20, 2018, 10:40:33 AM
81-1?

Raptors shattered my dreams and took it to the Celts last night particularly in the 2nd half, this was mostly a 3-point game, until late 4Q Raptor 10-0 run.

Game over.

No huge surprise, Raptors were good last year, and they might have gotten better with Kawhi, he's elite and rested. 

Brad is still figuring out rotations/minutes. Last night no good answer for KL or Ibaka.

The takeaways

Celts got lazy on D in the 2nd half Brad can't be happy but its October its fixable

Leonard killed them in the 2nd half-not fixable, he's really good, which is a good thing.

Gordo looked a lot better in this game than the opener, and I assume he'll get better

Its the 2nd game of the season way too soon to panic-3rd game is far more telling

Biggest disapointment last night was I didn't win Mega-Millions

Damn

Going hard on Power Ball tonight.

Hope the Celts do too and play a little more aggresively.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 20, 2018, 12:35:32 PM
Caught 9 mins of youtube highlights.

Was surprised how much Knix posted Kanter.
But Allen wasn't stopping him.
Still plenty of Nyet highlights where Kanter was chumped on D.

When you have Hardaway guarding the final play, you're very likely to lose.  Fizz postgame said Hardaway slid his feet well, but looked like Tim Jr. was first worried about a 3, then changed his stance allowing LaVert to go right.

At least Timaway says the right things:
Quote
Tim Hardaway Jr. on defending Caris LeVert on LeVert's game-winning drive and finish with one second remaining in Brooklyn's win over New York: "Got to know that he's going right. Got to know that. It falls on me. Just being around him all this time I should know that," Hardaway Jr. said of LeVert, his old Michigan teammate. "But you've got to move on. Next time it won't happen." Hardaway Jr. finished with 29 points on 10-for-25 shooting. He made big shots late in the game but said, "I think I shot the ball way too much tonight. That falls on me. I've got to get my teammates involved."

I don't believe that next time it won't happen, or it won't only because the Knix will hide Tim on weaker player, or not have him out there.

Tim's falling away 18' with 1:34 looked like a poor shot but went in.
Lotta ops for Tim to hone his game with KZ out.

Knox sounds real poised and mature for a teenager.
I can see why the Knix went with him.  The NBA body doesn't hurt either. Can't wait for him to get more physical.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 20, 2018, 01:43:07 PM
Yeah, I agree

Good coaching (posting Kanter, as Fiz had mentioned he oft times would - and why not?)

Poor coaching (the late matchup of THJ on LaVert out of a time out - I guess allowing his maligned SF to "show" he could handle a dynamic offensive player at a key game point).

Back to GOOD coaching - Atkinson recognizing the matchups - last year that ball is with Dinwiddie

Good to see Kanter at least on the fucking court in the 4th (off-def substitutions aside)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 20, 2018, 01:52:22 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 20, 2018, 03:44:22 AM
- Butler averaging 28 / 7 / 3 & 4 steals after two games.
Guy plays hard and a Top 5 2-way player.
His experiments in leadership are certainly dubious.
And I'd worry about how his alpha-dickhead approach would affect KZ.
But the guy has talent and plays hard.


Could be wrong, but I think his alpha-dickhead approach might be a nice complement to KZ.
Would still trade for him at a reasonable price. Not that it matters. Reasonable prices are being rejected.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 20, 2018, 02:48:20 PM
Paul George 7-27 last night
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 20, 2018, 04:24:47 PM
Quote
Boston Celtics forward Gordon Hayward will not play in Saturday's game against the New York Knicks, the team announced.

My concern is Butler would come in and make it his team.  Would KZ (and bro) be okay with that?  Because right now it's KZ's team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 20, 2018, 06:56:52 PM
Most top squads have some nice creative tension and variety of personality types: good cops, bad cops, gentlemen scholars, a$$holes. There's usually a leader with more relentless fire than our Latvian. Certainly some risk, but less with a guy who comes out to play every night and a plan to drop a balancing third dog into the lineup.




*** Greater risk is he becomes the broken-down Gerald Wallace who costs us a Damian Lillard, but I'd rate that possibility at only 11%, and it ain't happening anyway so nobody waste their time yelling at me.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 20, 2018, 07:27:54 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 20, 2018, 04:24:47 PM
Quote
Boston Celtics forward Gordon Hayward will not play in Saturday's game against the New York Knicks, the team announced.

My concern is Butler would come in and make it his team.  Would KZ (and bro) be okay with that?  Because right now it's KZ's team.

Hardaway's team

Porzingis has to mix back in.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 20, 2018, 07:30:10 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on October 20, 2018, 10:40:33 AM


No huge surprise, Raptors were good last year, and they might have gotten better with Kawhi, he's elite and rested. 


WORD.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 20, 2018, 08:12:45 PM
Russell 10-5-3 first half vs Pacers
Title: Iso Zo
Post by: Kam on October 20, 2018, 08:22:05 PM
The Garden certainly loves that Trier kid.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 20, 2018, 08:23:13 PM
Turning into a good game, at least for now
Title: Judging by the predicted win-loss records by the forum
Post by: Kam on October 20, 2018, 08:23:45 PM
No one seems too shaken up about dropping one in BKY
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 20, 2018, 08:32:56 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 20, 2018, 08:12:45 PM
Russell 10-5-3 first half vs Pacers

I'm sure you'll keep us updated when he does nada in the 2nd half, as per his MO.

Edit: he's 4-12 FG right now.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 20, 2018, 08:37:57 PM
Yeah - D'ang will be a monster when he gets those percentages up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 20, 2018, 08:42:43 PM
He tends to have good quarters, sometimes halves, rarely a full game.
Focus?  Intensity?  Conditioning?  Head?
Title: DD
Post by: chipstern on October 20, 2018, 08:57:28 PM
Dotson.

Happy for the kid.

And impressed. 

When fat intervened, and his number was called, Damyean WAS READY. 

Two young, hungry, talented 6'6" wings in DD and Trier. 

DD was a #2 Jackson Era Pick.  Props on that.

Trier, a Perry reach out.  BIG Props on that, undrafted as AT is. 
Title: PS
Post by: chipstern on October 20, 2018, 08:59:18 PM
Jayson Tatum is IMPRESSIVE. 

Yikes. 

Get well, soon, Kevin.

THERE'S The TEMPLATE. 

PS: Noah Vonleh pretty fucking impressive rebounder.

PPS: Kiid's projected lineup has manifested itself.  Robinson at Center, Kanter at PF. 
Title: Re: PS
Post by: bodiddley on October 20, 2018, 09:09:31 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 20, 2018, 08:59:18 PM
Jayson Tatum is IMPRESSIVE. 
Yikes. 
Get well, soon, Kevin.
THERE'S The TEMPLATE. 

That's really what I was thinking when I said I can't wait til Knox plays with physicality.  Jaylen and Tatum are quite physical for such young'uns.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 20, 2018, 09:18:45 PM
Knix hanging tough.

Also D-ing up full court.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 20, 2018, 09:27:36 PM
Oy - not a great Frank sequence to end the third

FN is a -23
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 20, 2018, 09:46:22 PM
Tangelo with a 2 point 2nd half . . .

Tim Jr takes a charge and hits a pair of 3's to tie the game with 4 mins left!
Title: JUNIOR!
Post by: Kam on October 20, 2018, 09:46:34 PM
Oh how sweet it looks when the shot is falling.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 20, 2018, 09:49:42 PM
Hardaway shootin too much again?

heh
Title: Oh but he's overpaid
Post by: Kam on October 20, 2018, 09:49:50 PM
snooze
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 20, 2018, 09:53:46 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 20, 2018, 09:46:22 PM
Tangelo with a 2 point 2nd half . . .



I assume you mean Russell

Tough opponent on the road

Paul George 7-27 last night
Title: Jayson Tatum is a baaad man
Post by: Kam on October 20, 2018, 09:58:47 PM
Make the bad man go away
Title: And the tank rolls on
Post by: Kam on October 20, 2018, 10:05:50 PM
Whoo hoo!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 20, 2018, 10:14:55 PM
I thought the Celts were gonna kill us.
Knix energy kept it close and the Celts under wraps.

16 TO's for NY + 10 missed FT's (okay last one on purpose).
But that's how you lose close games.

Slow starts?
Maybe Knox or Vonleh instead of Lance in the starting lineup.
Title: Still have an impressive point differential
Post by: Kam on October 20, 2018, 10:18:01 PM
thanks to blowout win and close losses
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 20, 2018, 10:29:44 PM
Meh. There was a lot to like but definitely some kinks to work out. Second night it took referee intervention and young squad mistakes on our part for our opponents to squeak out a win.

Definitely better game from Hardaway. He did much more of what worked in game one and less of what didn’t in game two. I would have liked to see him attack on one of those last two threes, at least for the sake of variety if not because you know the other team is going to bend over not to let you drain you third three in a row. Between Dad and Clyde getting in his ear, he’ll learn.

Vonleh needs to replace Thomas as a starter and main PF performer ASAP. EKant + Vonleh = maximum strength and energy. Plus Vonleh actually defends out to the perimeter.

Tatum is a gem. Tatum, Irving, and Horford are a synergistic top 3. With Hayward they are really damn good.

No rush with Knox he could use a strength, stance, and footwork week, as could Robinson once their ankles have actually healed.

Good game from Burke. Pretty good game from Trier, which was nice, and a nice run from Dotson.

Frank, Mario, and Robinson need tuning.

Ekant with a great steal at a pivotal moment that was called as his 6th foul.

On to the next, more trials by fire...
Title: The Fizz Kids
Post by: chipstern on October 20, 2018, 10:32:59 PM
I LOVE David Fizdale. 

His Knicks are competing purposefully and hard for 48 minutes. 

Toe to Toe with the Beast Of The East. 

Can't ask for anything more.

Well, a W. 

But we are making the Garden a tough out for visiting teams.

And NEXT Friday, the Warriors. 

If we keep the final margin under 20, it will be a moral victory.

PS: Noah Vonleh a very pleasant surprise.

PPS: I am quite keen to see how Fizz plugs Mudiay in there.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 20, 2018, 10:35:42 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 20, 2018, 10:29:44 PM
Meh. There was a lot to like but definitely some kinks to work out. Second night it took referee intervention and young squad mistakes on our part for our opponents to squeak out a win.

Definitely better game from Hardaway. He did much more of what worked in game one and less of what didn’t in game two. I would have liked to see him attack on one of those last two threes, at least for the sake of variety if not because you know the other team is going to bend over not to let you drain you third three in a row. Between Dad and Clyde getting in his ear, he’ll learn.

Vonleh needs to replace Thomas as a starter and main PF performer ASAP. EKant + Vonleh = maximum strength and energy. Plus Vonleh actually defends out to the perimeter.

Tatum is a gem. Tatum, Irving, and Horford are a synergistic top 3. With Hayward they are really damn good.

No rush with Knox he could use a strength, stance, and footwork week, as could Robinson once their ankles have actually healed.

Good game from Burke. Pretty good game from Trier, which was nice, and a nice run from Dotson.

Frank, Mario, and Robinson need tuning.

Ekant with a great steal at a pivotal moment that was called as his 6th foul.

On to the next, more trials by fire...

Good post. 

Good points.  TUNING, indeed. 

My God, win or lose, we actually have a team TO ROOT FOR, and a series of interesting, evolving narratives

PS: I think Vonleh is more effective coming off the bench. 
Title: Re: The Fizz Kids
Post by: lesterluv on October 20, 2018, 11:05:38 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 20, 2018, 10:32:59 PM
I LOVE David Fizdale. 

I'm taking a liking to him myself!

Quote from: chipstern on October 20, 2018, 10:32:59 PM
PPS: I am quite keen to see how Fizz plugs Mudiay in there.

I am somewhat less so ....
Title: With a few good bounces we could be 3-0
Post by: Kam on October 20, 2018, 11:05:46 PM
But i prefer 1-2
Title: In terms of divorcement from reality
Post by: lesterluv on October 20, 2018, 11:10:05 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 20, 2018, 07:27:54 PM

Hardaway's team

Porzingis has to mix back in.

That one might actually top "watch Mudiay continue to blossom."  )
Title: Re: The Fizz Kids
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 20, 2018, 11:16:38 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 20, 2018, 10:32:59 PM
I LOVE David Fizdale. 

His Knicks are competing purposefully and hard for 48 minutes. 

Toe to Toe with the Beast Of The East. 



Not saying I dont like him but we had similar efforts under the last regime.

A bit scattered with the lineups.
Title: I like that FIZZ shows emotion on the bench
Post by: Kam on October 20, 2018, 11:20:29 PM
That has been missing.
Title: Re: The Fizz Kids
Post by: lesterluv on October 20, 2018, 11:23:36 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 20, 2018, 11:16:38 PM

Not saying I dont like him but we had similar efforts under the last regime.

A bit scattered with the lineups.

And the regime before that...let's see what we look like round the 40 game mark.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 21, 2018, 02:30:48 AM
Dotson made a clear case for most if not all of the backup SG minutes. I think he can keep it up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 21, 2018, 02:43:38 AM
Lance and Baker are quickly earning mascot status with their on-court play.

Replacing Baker in the lineup is easy. Lance might be a little harder with our roster.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on October 21, 2018, 10:43:52 AM
good game last night, closer than I figured, turned into a nail-biter.

Celts still look disjointed on offense, the flow isn't there yet, or maybe it was great D, too early to tell., but the knicks played tough.

I was watching in a bar, so no sound, but it seemed when Baynes went out in 2Q that changed the game as Hordford was outmanned at big man and Kanter became more effective. Or it was the scotch.

Glad Tatum slipped to the Celts at #3, shit that kid got a feel for the game, although i almost lost it when he got a a little too ehthusiastic and bailed out (?) fouling at that prayer 35-footer.

The kid might have a future in the league.

shame about knox going out, wanted to see him play.

I thought KI drive through the Knick triangle D for a +1 might have been the play of the game.

good early season game.

or it was the scotch.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 21, 2018, 11:06:00 AM
Quote from: chipstern on October 20, 2018, 10:35:42 PM
PS: I think Vonleh is more effective coming off the bench.

But so is Lance.

Lance makes sense starting as he has been on the Knix for a while and is a vet, etc.  But if the team can't score in the 1Q, a change will be made.  Maybe wait til Courtly is ready.

I wouldn't be surprised if Mud drops out of the rotation and becomes a forgotten man.  Only thing that can save him is if Franc falters or Burke gets hurt.  Because Trier and Dot are both better backup SG's than Mud.

I assume Knix are looking to move Courtly & Mud and willing to take whatever.

Vonleh can board and screen.
So a useful role player.
Also bouncy.
I like using him as part of the fullcourt press.
He's long, athletic, and not going to play big minutes so can expend his energy in the backcourt on D.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 21, 2018, 12:40:26 PM
So they are saying the Rondo-CP3 mini-fight was the first since:

Quote
Then-Knicks coach Isiah Thomas was angered by Nuggets coach George Karl, who appeared to keep Anthony in the game late to run up the score.

Thomas made a late sub in Collins, who soon after flagrantly fouled then-Nuggets guard JR Smith with 1:15 remaining and the Knicks down 119-100. During the ensuing altercation after Collins' foul that included several players on both teams, Anthony punched Collins in the face and was ejected.

Anthony, the league's leading scorer at the time, received a 15-game suspension from the NBA three days later. The Knicks and Nuggets organizations were both fined $500,000. Smith and Knicks guard Nate Robinson were suspended 10 games, Collins was suspended six, Knicks forward Jared Jeffries was suspended four games, and Knicks center Jerome James and Nuggets center Nene were suspended one game for leaving the bench.

Hard to believe it was 12 years back, or that no one has thrown (connected?) on a punch since then.
They also fail to note that Melo threw his punch and immediately retreated in a pretty punk/cowardly display.

Looks like Ball will be starting the next few games.
I assume Rondo will get a 3 game maybe up to 5 game suspension, but who knows?  Not a big fight really.  Ingram should be in trouble for starting the incident then coming back and throwing punches after the delayed PG flare-up occurred.  Rondo and ChrisPaul are both kind of stubborn dickheads.  Rondo led with a left jab -- a left handed punch always a bit of a surprise, if you got one.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 21, 2018, 12:57:36 PM
I just watched the fracas.  It was a good one.  I think the main players (Ingram, Rondo, and Paul) all deserve anywhere from 3 to 5 game suspension.  Looking back at the previous suspensions... Stern was more draconian than Silver should be.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 21, 2018, 01:14:57 PM
I don't blame Ingram for being annoyed with Harden.
Hardon on a fast break drive just sticks out the ball and elbows a backpedaling Ingram in the face.  I'd call an offensive foul on that as it looked intentional.  But rather a punk move for Ingram to return to the scrum (form 25 feet away) and throw punches at CP3 while everyone is trying to break up his fight with Rondo.

Initially it was Lance who pulled Ingram away from the brouhaha.
I'm not an Ingram fan, but LeBJ should be in his ear and on him, and try to focus him.  He's got talent if he can play smart(er).  Who better to learn from?

Looking forward to Lonzo running the show.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 21, 2018, 01:16:36 PM
Without Butler (resting) Minny gave up 140 to DAL.
Scored 136 and lost . . .

Mini had DRose guard Smith Jr on the key endgame play.
Shades of Tim Jr flailing away . . .

DAL took 50 3's, more than half of their FG's.
A worrisome NBA trend.
Boring hoops.
Title: Let them go
Post by: Kam on October 21, 2018, 01:28:29 PM
Mario Mudiay Thomas
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 21, 2018, 01:36:55 PM
A butcher
A (shake and) baker
A candlestick maker
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 21, 2018, 01:41:37 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 21, 2018, 01:14:57 PM
I don't blame Ingram for being annoyed with Harden.
Hardon on a fast break drive just sticks out the ball and elbows a backpedaling Ingram in the face.  I'd call an offensive foul on that as it looked intentional.  But rather a punk move for Ingram to return to the scrum (form 25 feet away) and throw punches at CP3 while everyone is trying to break up his fight with Rondo.

Initially it was Lance who pulled Ingram away from the brouhaha.
I'm not an Ingram fan, but LeBJ should be in his ear and on him, and try to focus him.  He's got talent if he can play smart(er).  Who better to learn from?

Looking forward to Lonzo running the show.

Was actually CARMELO who was walking Ingram - actually aggressively stalking him - away from the pack initially.  CA could have acted more grandfatherly to the young pup, calm him down - instead of chasing and whoofing at the kid

Ingram at fault, immature.
Carmelo didnt help, when he certainly could have (sounds like his whole pro career - heh)
PAUL started the whole fuckin thing
RONDO the badass of the event.  Dont fuck with that cat.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 21, 2018, 03:55:48 PM
Quote
New York Knicks rookie Kevin Knox will be sidelined for at least one week due to a left ankle sprain.

An MRI on Sunday confirmed that Knox suffered a sprained ankle in the first quarter of the Knicks' loss to the Boston Celtics on Saturday, the team said.

Knox will not travel with the Knicks on their two-game road trip this week and will be re-evaluated in seven days. So the rookie will miss at least three games because of the injury.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on October 21, 2018, 05:06:57 PM
Trier and Burke make a nice guard rotation.
Title: Re: Let them go
Post by: chipstern on October 21, 2018, 05:46:17 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 21, 2018, 01:28:29 PM
Mario Mudiay Thomas

Blow it out your ass. 
Title: Patients
Post by: bodiddley on October 21, 2018, 06:43:58 PM
I think Mud is/will be a washout.
And Mario seems iffy.
But this is a development year.
So try a little patience.

We have lots of guys who were castoffs.
Burke looked terrible in Utah, spent a couple years in the wilderness and got it together in G-League.  Now he looks like a credible NBA backup PG, who can start some as needed.

Vonleh looked awful in CHA.  Clueless.  And largely a nonfactor in POR.
But already he's showing strong rebounding chops, good screening ability, and isn't trying to do too much on O.  Looks like a useful role player.  I don't think either are starters on a good team, but unearthing two solid role players from reclamation projects is pretty good.

So, patience.
Maybe Mario can reign in his mistake-prone tendencies and drain shots.  Perhaps he just hasn't figured out the NBA yet.

Maybe Mud can find a role that suits him.  Since we already have 5 SG's and he doesn't project as a PG, I assume another stop is likely needed for him.  Unfortunately, Mud has so much to work on. Also needs to stay healthy and ready.  But no reason to give up on him while he's still a Knick.

Guys develop at different rates and on different timetables.
Sure, some never get it, perhaps don't have the skills or the drive needed.  But I'll root for Mario and Mud while they are here.
Maybe a dozen games in, I'd like to see one or both out there in crunch time.  Who knows what one game winning or late clutch 3 might do for Zonja's confidence. 

And confidence is a big part of hoops.
Fizz said one reason he kept Tim Jr on LaVert was to keep his confidence up and show trust.  (of course, I'm not sure how much getting burned for the game winning basket helps one's confidence)

So patience.
And we already have too many players who need minutes.

As for Lance, he's not an offender.
But can hit a 3 now and then.  Had a big make v. BOS.
And he plays hard.  Just should be a limited minute role player.
Also, seems nobody has beat him out at PF.

Lance & Baker play hard, seem like good teammates, very likely good practice players.  Good soldiers.  Coaches and teammates like that.
I like watching Baker on the court.  Just an effort guy on both ends.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 21, 2018, 06:49:57 PM
"(Mudiay) doesnt project as a PG......."

heh

Funny stuff

Fact is we HAVE NO POINT right now, so he will be a welcome addition.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 21, 2018, 07:06:03 PM
Well, on a team with "no point" right now he's 3rd string PG, competing with Franc to be the backup.

Mud has shown some flashes, but also a real lack of fundamentals.
At least Franc has one NBA level skill to build upon.
And I'm not sure about Muddy's desire (how was he out of shape all last year?).  We'll see.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 21, 2018, 07:49:56 PM
"Mud" hasn't shown a thing.  He has been out, injured.

When he is back, you can say what he has shown.
Title: Mudiay
Post by: chipstern on October 21, 2018, 07:53:20 PM
Emmanuel is OBVIOUSLY a flawed project, based mainly on his lack of a consistent NBA jumper, and his enigmatic inability to finish at the rack on nicely executed drives. 

However, it is worth noting, that as far as pure point skills were involved, vis a vis, being the rudder, making passes that set up his team mates, all through the pre-season, Mudiay showed his best in fourth quarter runs, anchoring comebacks. 

Also, as BoD points out, we have seen players in Burke and Vonleh who were big time washouts in their previous stops, now showing a higher degree of competitive acumen and skill, wherein they have made palpable contributions, and project as solid, effective role players if not starters. 

Hey, are we going to write guys off after what, five preseason games, three regular season.  That is BULLSHIT.  No one has that prescience, not even our Coach, but then we are talking about a handicapper who, my personal affection notwithstanding, professes to be happy we are 1-2 rather than 3-0, and who never fails to dismiss Enes Kanter to extoll the virtues of a raw project in Robinson and project him as a starter in months to come, so that tells you all you need to know. 

Fizdale has shown an interesting degree of patience and ruthlessness, and while he is not going to give ANYONE a hall pass, even a pet project such as Knox, who responded to a run of crummy games and a benching, by coming back with a solid effort against the Nets, he is working on everyone's confidence, and trying to figure out what buttons to push, when to stroke and when to slap. 

We have seen palpable improvement in the overall games and leadership of both Timmy and Enes.  We have seen players such as Doston step out of oblivion and make a significant contribution.  We have seen Fizz put significant trust in a career role player such as Baker when injuries took Mudiay from the rotation.  We have seen him fishing around trying to push Hezonja's buttons to balance his talent and physical gifts with his confidence and execution. 

And of course, Lance Thomas gets dissed and dismissed by all but his Head Coach. 

We will have a much clearer idea as to who is chicken salad and who is chicken shit, come XMAS. 

Until then, everyone on the roster is a work in progress. 

A little patience, thank you very much, and no premature, presumptive Fatwahs based on such scanty evidence. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 21, 2018, 07:55:32 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 21, 2018, 07:49:56 PM
"Mud" hasn't shown a thing.  He has been out, injured.

When he is back, you can say what he has shown.

WORD. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 21, 2018, 07:59:19 PM
https://twitter.com/thekidet/status/1053901457815044096 (https://twitter.com/thekidet/status/1053901457815044096)

YEP

Stop the baby shit with Chris Paul

Lucky it was just two games
Title: Re: In terms of divorcement from reality
Post by: thebizneverloses on October 22, 2018, 01:58:34 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on October 20, 2018, 11:10:05 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 20, 2018, 07:27:54 PM

Hardaway's team

Porzingis has to mix back in.

That one might actually top "watch Mudiay continue to blossom."  )

Excellent, Les.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on October 22, 2018, 02:03:20 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 21, 2018, 12:40:26 PM
So they are saying the Rondo-CP3 mini-fight was the first since:

Quote
Then-Knicks coach Isiah Thomas was angered by Nuggets coach George Karl, who appeared to keep Anthony in the game late to run up the score.

Thomas made a late sub in Collins, who soon after flagrantly fouled then-Nuggets guard JR Smith with 1:15 remaining and the Knicks down 119-100. During the ensuing altercation after Collins' foul that included several players on both teams, Anthony punched Collins in the face and was ejected.

Anthony, the league's leading scorer at the time, received a 15-game suspension from the NBA three days later. The Knicks and Nuggets organizations were both fined $500,000. Smith and Knicks guard Nate Robinson were suspended 10 games, Collins was suspended six, Knicks forward Jared Jeffries was suspended four games, and Knicks center Jerome James and Nuggets center Nene were suspended one game for leaving the bench.

Hard to believe it was 12 years back, or that no one has thrown (connected?) on a punch since then.
They also fail to note that Melo threw his punch and immediately retreated in a pretty punk/cowardly display.

I was at that game. Melo was killing us.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 22, 2018, 02:12:56 AM
We’ve got five playable guards at the moment in Trey, Trier, Frank, Dotson, and Timmy. Fizz apparently likes to use 6 in his rotation, so Mudiay and Lee will get a chance to compete to be one of six with poor Ron who is struggling to hold down that spot, assuming one or more of them isn’t traded.

It would be nice if somehow Mario got on track. It’s going to take a while to train him up to where he can comfortably read and execute in most situations. From what I’ve seen, it would be well worth getting him there.

We need to be even more urgent advancing the ball and more willing to swing it in half court possessions, especially when the opposing unit is already starting to fatigue.

Also, fuck fashion. Knicks. Need to start fining players who show up to games without high and low ankle support.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 22, 2018, 05:38:53 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 21, 2018, 07:49:56 PM
"Mud" hasn't shown a thing.  He has been out, injured.
When he is back, you can say what he has shown.

Uh, Mud was with us end of last year.  Also played pre-season.  During that time he has shown brief flashes.  Obviously not during the 3-game regular season in which he hasn't played.  Somehow I didn't think it was necessary to specify that.

Last year Alex Len led the league in Needing a Change of Scenery.
Just put up 16 / 11 / 4 & 4 blocks.  Big mofo, still just age 25, and earning a paltry $4.5M.  He needs to become consistent.  But I said at the time of his signing he's quite a bargain now.  He's on terrible ATL, which gives him a chance to start again.

Last year's NCoS runner-up Myers Leonard really needs out of POR but is making $10M a year.  No doubt POR is looking for a home for him, and he could do well/okay under a different system.
Title: Re: Mudiay
Post by: bodiddley on October 22, 2018, 05:42:48 AM
Quote from: chipstern on October 21, 2018, 07:53:20 PM

We have seen palpable improvement in the overall games and leadership of both Timmy and Enes.

What are you basing this on?
Looks like the same old Tim to me so far (in of course a small sample).
Can get streaky hot, shoots a low %, not a defender.
What am I missing?
Title: Re: Mudiay
Post by: chipstern on October 22, 2018, 06:39:19 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 22, 2018, 05:42:48 AM
Quote from: chipstern on October 21, 2018, 07:53:20 PM

We have seen palpable improvement in the overall games and leadership of both Timmy and Enes.

What are you basing this on?
Looks like the same old Tim to me so far (in of course a small sample).
Can get streaky hot, shoots a low %, not a defender.
What am I missing?

What are you missing? 

Apparently the better part of all three games. 

Timmy's overall game is better balanced.  He is getting out on the break and attacking the basket more.  His shot selection is not so 3-point dominant.  He is looking to his team mates.  Yes, still a high volume shooter, but on this team, someone who can make shots needs to take shots. 

And Enes has been a double-double on demand. 

Both are working harder and more purposefully on the defensive end. 

People have reacted with predictable snark towards Fizdale as per him trusting Timmy on that final possession against LeVert.  Nothing ventured, nothing gained.  Coach's way of saying, I believe in you...I believe you can take the next step as a defender.  Putting Frank on LeVert makes a world of sense.  Fizz thinking long term, and the possibility that Timmy is capable of applying his athleticism to such a match-up, as in better days ahead...building his confidence and pride. 

Fizz's argument is that he didn't want to lose Hardaway. 

We shall see if it bears fruit. 

Some folks are unlikely to ever give Timmy any props, or so it would seem. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 22, 2018, 07:22:35 AM
The first two games were against very weak teams.
And BKY was missing RHJ and DMC.  Wing defenders.
I missed the first game.
Saw parts of the 2nd and the final 3Q's of the Celts game.

Until the terrific sequence where Tim nailed 2 3's and took a charge he was having a poor game v. BOS on both ends.
He's taken some bad shots and shown poor defense both games I saw.
25 FG's and 0 assists wasn't exactly looking for his teammates.
And he's averaging nearly 10 3's per game so far.

Really I think the opposite is true -- that some folks look to praise Tim when he does the slightest good.  In any case, saying he's roughly the same in a very small sample isn't really criticizing.

Othersowise, I don't think lead offensive option and 35 mins a night is a good role for Tim, and not the best way to evaluate him.
When he was tasked to defend LaVert on the final play, it was his 36th minute out there and he had undertaken a heavy offensive load.
And of course, Franc is a better defender regardless.
It also didn't help that our help defense was late and useless.

Kanter has been an M-A-N on offense, but his D has been pretty chumpy.  He's too afraid to come out and when he sags back he isn't quick enough of feet or decision to recover to his man.  It certainly doesn't help that we don't have any PF who can provide long-armed help defense.  Which I assume is why Fizz tried two brief stints with Kant and MitchRob both out there.  And later KZ will help Kant. 

Even before we traded for Kanter I noticed and commented that Kanter make a good faith effort of D.  He just reacts a bit slow, doesn't have long arms, and gets beat routinely.  But he tries.  So the coaches need to help him with angles, quicker reactions, and when to dish out a solid foul and when to back off, for some incremental improvement.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 22, 2018, 08:37:54 AM
Hardaway's PER is 21.9

Career is 13.6

Career high is 15.2

THJ is 6th in points and 12th in PPG
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 22, 2018, 08:40:21 AM
Meanwhile we are 1-2 - with a win over one of the worst NBA teams - and most here don't want to see what we look like with Mudiay.

Funny - when EM seemed to be playing well the masses wanted to credit Fizdale (not any natural progression) - now they want EM nowhere near the team after an ankle injury - and especially not after precious Franklitina (PER 7.5) had a couple of stinkers.

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 22, 2018, 08:55:35 AM
Although his play may not result in a large number of wins this year, Hardaway’s ascension with Porzingis out still plays a vital role in New York’s future.

If the former Michigan Wolverine can take the next step as a player and develop into a 20-22 point per game scorer, the Knicks offense could become potent as it adds a healthy Porzingis and a more developed Kevin Knox.

This season is Hardaway’s moment to develop into the complete scorer that would be a key piece of the Knicks future success.

As of right now, he is seizing that moment.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 22, 2018, 09:27:05 AM
We need consistency and better shooting %'s from Tim.
And given the roster construction he should be trying to facilitate more.

PER for Tim doesn't account for his defense.
Same for Franc.
As PER always.

Not sure who you are talking about.
I just said that I'd like to see Mud and Mario get some starts a dozen or two games in, once they are healthy and look ready.
Development year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 22, 2018, 09:34:48 AM
Shump had 26 for Sacto and really filled up the stat sheet.
I didn't even remember which team he was on.

Shump had 16 in the 1stQ, after just 14 the first two games.

OKC can't stop anybody so far.
Nerlens fouled out in 13 mins.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 22, 2018, 11:05:47 AM
THJ

39% from 3 (attempts up)
94% from line (attempts way up)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 22, 2018, 11:11:23 AM
THJ

Offensive rating -    112 (career high as starter)
Defensive rating -    104 (career high)
Title: Re: Patients
Post by: Kam on October 22, 2018, 01:01:11 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 21, 2018, 06:43:58 PM
I think Mud is/will be a washout.
And Mario seems iffy.
But this is a development year.
So try a little patience.

Maybe Mario can reign in his mistake-prone tendencies and drain shots.  Perhaps he just hasn't figured out the NBA yet.

Maybe Mud can find a role that suits him.   But no reason to give up on him while he's still a Knick.


Yeah i meant let them go after the season.  My crystal ball (for what its worth) can see these guys future is in Europe.

Mudiay HAS NOT improved from last season.

Mario is terrible at basketball.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 22, 2018, 01:04:21 PM
More Rondo-Paul video just in

https://twitter.com/BoringEnormous/status/1054143258908114944 (https://twitter.com/BoringEnormous/status/1054143258908114944)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 22, 2018, 01:05:40 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 22, 2018, 08:40:21 AM
Meanwhile we are 1-2 - with a win over one of the worst NBA teams - and most here don't want to see what we look like with Mudiay.

Funny - when EM seemed to be playing well the masses wanted to credit Fizdale (not any natural progression)



Who said that?  Quote the post.  I call BS that EM ever was "playing well" under Fizz.
Title: Timmy Revisited
Post by: chipstern on October 22, 2018, 01:08:35 PM
Admittedly a pretty thin sampling.

But over three games?

A .944 FT% [17-18]

A .393 3-PT% [11-28]

Checking in at 28ppg, with 2.7 assists and 3.7 rebounds [Career: 12.2ppg, 1.7 assists, 2.4 rebounds]

So yeah, same old Tim. 

Heh [Trademark Kiid, 2018]
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 22, 2018, 01:10:30 PM
Why the willful ignorance?

Tim is the same tim.  Just more.

More minutes, more shots, more the focus of the offense.

Small sample.
Title: Re: Patients
Post by: chipstern on October 22, 2018, 01:11:06 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 22, 2018, 01:01:11 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 21, 2018, 06:43:58 PM
I think Mud is/will be a washout.
And Mario seems iffy.
But this is a development year.
So try a little patience.

Maybe Mario can reign in his mistake-prone tendencies and drain shots.  Perhaps he just hasn't figured out the NBA yet.

Maybe Mud can find a role that suits him.   But no reason to give up on him while he's still a Knick.


Yeah i meant let them go after the season.  My crystal ball (for what its worth) can see these guys future is in Europe.

Mudiay HAS NOT improved from last season.

Mario is terrible at basketball.

And you can divine all of this from three regular season games?

Bon appetite. 

PS: And Lance Thomas?  Uh huh. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 22, 2018, 01:11:59 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 22, 2018, 01:10:30 PM
Why the willful ignorance?

Tim is the same tim.  Just more.

More minutes, more shots, more the focus of the offense.

Small sample.

Same old snark. 
Title: Re: Patients
Post by: Kam on October 22, 2018, 01:12:40 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 22, 2018, 01:11:06 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 22, 2018, 01:01:11 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 21, 2018, 06:43:58 PM
I think Mud is/will be a washout.
And Mario seems iffy.
But this is a development year.
So try a little patience.

Maybe Mario can reign in his mistake-prone tendencies and drain shots.  Perhaps he just hasn't figured out the NBA yet.

Maybe Mud can find a role that suits him.   But no reason to give up on him while he's still a Knick.


Yeah i meant let them go after the season.  My crystal ball (for what its worth) can see these guys future is in Europe.

Mudiay HAS NOT improved from last season.

Mario is terrible at basketball.

And you can divine all of this from three regular season games?

Bon appetite. 

PS: And Lance Thomas?  Uh huh.

Mudiay and Mario have been around for years.  DItto Lance a lot.

DID YOU NOTICE THE RECLAMATION PROJECTS THAT ARE WORKING ARE NOT THE SCOTT PERRY  "insert 25 cents to play again" VARIETY?

Perry  doubled down on old mistakes like a buffoon,.

IF Mudiay and Mario were good, why is Scott Perry the only one who can find them a job?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 22, 2018, 01:17:06 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 22, 2018, 01:11:59 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 22, 2018, 01:10:30 PM
Why the willful ignorance?

Tim is the same tim.  Just more.

More minutes, more shots, more the focus of the offense.

Small sample.

Same old snark.

No Snark you! You are playing with numbers posting a career average vs a three game sample size.  Classic Nagelian tactics.
Title: Re: Patients
Post by: chipstern on October 22, 2018, 01:17:59 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 22, 2018, 01:12:40 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 22, 2018, 01:11:06 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 22, 2018, 01:01:11 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 21, 2018, 06:43:58 PM
I think Mud is/will be a washout.
And Mario seems iffy.
But this is a development year.
So try a little patience.

Maybe Mario can reign in his mistake-prone tendencies and drain shots.  Perhaps he just hasn't figured out the NBA yet.

Maybe Mud can find a role that suits him.   But no reason to give up on him while he's still a Knick.


Yeah i meant let them go after the season.  My crystal ball (for what its worth) can see these guys future is in Europe.

Mudiay HAS NOT improved from last season.

Mario is terrible at basketball.

And you can divine all of this from three regular season games?

Bon appetite. 

PS: And Lance Thomas?  Uh huh.

Mudiay and Mario have been around for years.  DItto Lance a lot.

DID YOU NOTICE THE RECLAMATION PROJECTS THAT ARE WORKING ARE NOT THE SCOTT PERRY  "insert 25 cents to play again" VARIETY?

Perry  doubled down on old mistakes like a buffoon,.

IF Mudiay and Mario were good, why is Scott Perry the only one who can find them a job?

More willful bullshit.

Noah Vonleh?

Trey Burke?



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 22, 2018, 01:19:34 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 22, 2018, 01:17:06 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 22, 2018, 01:11:59 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 22, 2018, 01:10:30 PM
Why the willful ignorance?

Tim is the same tim.  Just more.

More minutes, more shots, more the focus of the offense.

Small sample.

Same old snark.

No Snark you! You are playing with numbers posting a career average vs a three game sample size.  Classic Nagelian tactics.

Uh huh. 

And you are writing off Hezonja and Mudiay based on a three game sample and a no game sample.

Classic Uncle Toonoose Vamboozle. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 22, 2018, 01:53:05 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 22, 2018, 01:05:40 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 22, 2018, 08:40:21 AM
Meanwhile we are 1-2 - with a win over one of the worst NBA teams - and most here don't want to see what we look like with Mudiay.

Funny - when EM seemed to be playing well the masses wanted to credit Fizdale (not any natural progression)



Who said that?  Quote the post.  I call BS that EM ever was "playing well" under Fizz.

Had you gone for a long WALK or something?

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 22, 2018, 02:03:15 PM
In each of their - FIRST THREE - preseason games, they have gone with a starting five of Emmanuel Mudiay, Trey Burke, Tim Hardaway, Knox and Enes Kanter.



But alas - Mudiay not healthy and Knoxie shot hit the skids.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on October 22, 2018, 02:15:48 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 22, 2018, 01:17:06 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 22, 2018, 01:11:59 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 22, 2018, 01:10:30 PM
Why the willful ignorance?

Tim is the same tim.  Just more.

More minutes, more shots, more the focus of the offense.

Small sample.

Same old snark.

No Snark you! You are playing with numbers posting a career average vs a three game sample size.  Classic Nagelian tactics.
leave me the fuck out of this.  i have said nothing.
Title: Re: Patients
Post by: Kam on October 22, 2018, 02:19:20 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 22, 2018, 01:17:59 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 22, 2018, 01:12:40 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 22, 2018, 01:11:06 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 22, 2018, 01:01:11 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 21, 2018, 06:43:58 PM
I think Mud is/will be a washout.
And Mario seems iffy.
But this is a development year.
So try a little patience.

Maybe Mario can reign in his mistake-prone tendencies and drain shots.  Perhaps he just hasn't figured out the NBA yet.

Maybe Mud can find a role that suits him.   But no reason to give up on him while he's still a Knick.


Yeah i meant let them go after the season.  My crystal ball (for what its worth) can see these guys future is in Europe.

Mudiay HAS NOT improved from last season.

Mario is terrible at basketball.

And you can divine all of this from three regular season games?

Bon appetite. 

PS: And Lance Thomas?  Uh huh.

Mudiay and Mario have been around for years.  DItto Lance a lot.

DID YOU NOTICE THE RECLAMATION PROJECTS THAT ARE WORKING ARE NOT THE SCOTT PERRY  "insert 25 cents to play again" VARIETY?

Perry  doubled down on old mistakes like a buffoon,.

IF Mudiay and Mario were good, why is Scott Perry the only one who can find them a job?

More willful bullshit.

Noah Vonleh?

Trey Burke?

Did i mention those names??  Weird response.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 22, 2018, 02:19:54 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 22, 2018, 01:19:34 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 22, 2018, 01:17:06 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 22, 2018, 01:11:59 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 22, 2018, 01:10:30 PM
Why the willful ignorance?

Tim is the same tim.  Just more.

More minutes, more shots, more the focus of the offense.

Small sample.

Same old snark.

No Snark you! You are playing with numbers posting a career average vs a three game sample size.  Classic Nagelian tactics.

Uh huh. 

And you are writing off Hezonja and Mudiay based on a three game sample and a no game sample.

Classic Uncle Toonoose Vamboozle.

On their CAREERS doofus.
Title: Alternative facts Alternative realities
Post by: Kam on October 22, 2018, 02:21:34 PM
You guys are crazy.
Title: Re: Patients
Post by: chipstern on October 22, 2018, 02:33:08 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 22, 2018, 02:19:20 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 22, 2018, 01:17:59 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 22, 2018, 01:12:40 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 22, 2018, 01:11:06 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 22, 2018, 01:01:11 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 21, 2018, 06:43:58 PM
I think Mud is/will be a washout.
And Mario seems iffy.
But this is a development year.
So try a little patience.

Maybe Mario can reign in his mistake-prone tendencies and drain shots.  Perhaps he just hasn't figured out the NBA yet.

Maybe Mud can find a role that suits him.   But no reason to give up on him while he's still a Knick.


Yeah i meant let them go after the season.  My crystal ball (for what its worth) can see these guys future is in Europe.

Mudiay HAS NOT improved from last season.

Mario is terrible at basketball.

And you can divine all of this from three regular season games?

Bon appetite. 

PS: And Lance Thomas?  Uh huh.

Mudiay and Mario have been around for years.  DItto Lance a lot.

DID YOU NOTICE THE RECLAMATION PROJECTS THAT ARE WORKING ARE NOT THE SCOTT PERRY  "insert 25 cents to play again" VARIETY?

Perry  doubled down on old mistakes like a buffoon,.

IF Mudiay and Mario were good, why is Scott Perry the only one who can find them a job?

More willful bullshit.

Noah Vonleh?

Trey Burke?

Did i mention those names??  Weird response.

Blanket Dismissal of Reclamation Projects by Scott Perry.

Not Working?

Weird that you would NOT MENTION THESE NAMES. 

Duly Noted. 
Title: Re: Patients
Post by: Kam on October 22, 2018, 02:41:43 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 22, 2018, 02:33:08 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 22, 2018, 02:19:20 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 22, 2018, 01:17:59 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 22, 2018, 01:12:40 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 22, 2018, 01:11:06 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 22, 2018, 01:01:11 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 21, 2018, 06:43:58 PM
I think Mud is/will be a washout.
And Mario seems iffy.
But this is a development year.
So try a little patience.

Maybe Mario can reign in his mistake-prone tendencies and drain shots.  Perhaps he just hasn't figured out the NBA yet.

Maybe Mud can find a role that suits him.   But no reason to give up on him while he's still a Knick.


Yeah i meant let them go after the season.  My crystal ball (for what its worth) can see these guys future is in Europe.

Mudiay HAS NOT improved from last season.

Mario is terrible at basketball.

And you can divine all of this from three regular season games?

Bon appetite. 

PS: And Lance Thomas?  Uh huh.

Mudiay and Mario have been around for years.  DItto Lance a lot.

DID YOU NOTICE THE RECLAMATION PROJECTS THAT ARE WORKING ARE NOT THE SCOTT PERRY  "insert 25 cents to play again" VARIETY?

Perry  doubled down on old mistakes like a buffoon,.

IF Mudiay and Mario were good, why is Scott Perry the only one who can find them a job?

More willful bullshit.

Noah Vonleh?

Trey Burke?

Did i mention those names??  Weird response.

Blanket Dismissal of Reclamation Projects by Scott Perry.

Not Working?

Weird that you would NOT MENTION THESE NAMES. 

Duly Noted.

Perry had nothing to do with drafting those guys. You're either being willfully obstinate or you just don't read good.
Title: Re: Patients
Post by: chipstern on October 22, 2018, 03:08:00 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 22, 2018, 02:41:43 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 22, 2018, 02:33:08 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 22, 2018, 02:19:20 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 22, 2018, 01:17:59 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 22, 2018, 01:12:40 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 22, 2018, 01:11:06 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 22, 2018, 01:01:11 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 21, 2018, 06:43:58 PM
I think Mud is/will be a washout.
And Mario seems iffy.
But this is a development year.
So try a little patience.

Maybe Mario can reign in his mistake-prone tendencies and drain shots.  Perhaps he just hasn't figured out the NBA yet.

Maybe Mud can find a role that suits him.   But no reason to give up on him while he's still a Knick.


Yeah i meant let them go after the season.  My crystal ball (for what its worth) can see these guys future is in Europe.

Mudiay HAS NOT improved from last season.

Mario is terrible at basketball.

And you can divine all of this from three regular season games?

Bon appetite. 

PS: And Lance Thomas?  Uh huh.

Mudiay and Mario have been around for years.  DItto Lance a lot.

DID YOU NOTICE THE RECLAMATION PROJECTS THAT ARE WORKING ARE NOT THE SCOTT PERRY  "insert 25 cents to play again" VARIETY?

Perry  doubled down on old mistakes like a buffoon,.

IF Mudiay and Mario were good, why is Scott Perry the only one who can find them a job?

More willful bullshit.

Noah Vonleh?

Trey Burke?

Did i mention those names??  Weird response.

Blanket Dismissal of Reclamation Projects by Scott Perry.

Not Working?

Weird that you would NOT MENTION THESE NAMES. 

Duly Noted.

Perry had nothing to do with drafting those guys. You're either being willfully obstinate or you just don't read good.

Your point was that Perry had not signed any worthwhile reclamation projects. 

Remember? 

You might want to change over from Indica to Sativa, sahib. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 22, 2018, 03:33:03 PM
The best thing about the Mudiay deal might be that it moved us on from Dougie who was a serious sieve.

Vonleh and Burke are good players on very good deals.

I have not seen enough Mario to have a strong feeling on whether he’s a player or a Jimmer.

If Mario is a player then Perry/Mills are 3 of 4 in the reclamation game. If he’s a Jimmer, they are still 2 and 2.

Much still depends on what Fizz can get them to do going forward.
Title: Re: Patients
Post by: Kam on October 22, 2018, 03:35:29 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 22, 2018, 03:08:00 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 22, 2018, 02:41:43 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 22, 2018, 02:33:08 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 22, 2018, 02:19:20 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 22, 2018, 01:17:59 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 22, 2018, 01:12:40 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 22, 2018, 01:11:06 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 22, 2018, 01:01:11 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 21, 2018, 06:43:58 PM
I think Mud is/will be a washout.
And Mario seems iffy.
But this is a development year.
So try a little patience.

Maybe Mario can reign in his mistake-prone tendencies and drain shots.  Perhaps he just hasn't figured out the NBA yet.

Maybe Mud can find a role that suits him.   But no reason to give up on him while he's still a Knick.


Yeah i meant let them go after the season.  My crystal ball (for what its worth) can see these guys future is in Europe.

Mudiay HAS NOT improved from last season.

Mario is terrible at basketball.

And you can divine all of this from three regular season games?

Bon appetite. 

PS: And Lance Thomas?  Uh huh.

Mudiay and Mario have been around for years.  DItto Lance a lot.

DID YOU NOTICE THE RECLAMATION PROJECTS THAT ARE WORKING ARE NOT THE SCOTT PERRY  "insert 25 cents to play again" VARIETY?

Perry  doubled down on old mistakes like a buffoon,.

IF Mudiay and Mario were good, why is Scott Perry the only one who can find them a job?

More willful bullshit.

Noah Vonleh?

Trey Burke?

Did i mention those names??  Weird response.

Blanket Dismissal of Reclamation Projects by Scott Perry.

Not Working?

Weird that you would NOT MENTION THESE NAMES. 

Duly Noted.

Perry had nothing to do with drafting those guys. You're either being willfully obstinate or you just don't read good.

Your point was that Perry had not signed any worthwhile reclamation projects. 

Remember? 

You might want to change over from Indica to Sativa, sahib.

No not my point at all.
Learn to read:

---

Quote
Mudiay and Mario have been around for years.  DItto Lance a lot.

DID YOU NOTICE THE RECLAMATION PROJECTS THAT ARE WORKING ARE NOT THE SCOTT PERRY  "insert 25 cents to play again" VARIETY?

There are your Vonlehs and Burkes.  The projects that are working.


Jeez - us

Do i have to spell out the words for you.... Mario and Mudiay were Perry's guys from the jump and he is too shortsided or stubborn to not throw more good money after bad.  The other 30 GMS had no interest in Mudiay or Mario at that money.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on October 22, 2018, 03:38:43 PM
Kam - I get what you mean about Subpar Mario (trademark Kamiar 2018), but what is the Perry-Mudiay connection?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 22, 2018, 03:40:54 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on October 22, 2018, 03:38:43 PM
Kam - I get what you mean about Subpar Mario (trademark Kamiar 2018), but what is the Perry-Mudiay connection?

Perry was very high on Mudiay at the time of the draft.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jerrya on October 22, 2018, 04:19:53 PM
Time to bench Lance Thomas...he doesn't bring much to the table.  No offence or defence.  Don't really care who replaces him but for a start I'd try Allonzo...I like his offence.


Knicks are getting 9 pts and 4 rebounds a game from their starting forwards.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 22, 2018, 04:28:24 PM
I wouldn’t mind a Ekant, Vonleh, Frank, Timmy, Trier lineup as starters. It takes a lot of punch out of our bench, putting pressure on Robinson, Kornet, Mario, and Knox once healthy to step up. Lance may also be more productive against second units. Dotson and Burke are more than adequate reserve guards. They’d be fairly strong when augmented by a healthy Courtney Lee.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 22, 2018, 04:44:36 PM
Start
EKant
Vonleh
Ntilikina
Junior
Burke

Bench
Trier
Lee
Knox
Thomas
Robinson
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Urethra_Franklin on October 22, 2018, 08:24:09 PM
Apparently Fizzy had a talk with Timmy about the importance of teamwork. I have a feeling he'll be coaching us for the next decade
Title: Re: Patients
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on October 22, 2018, 08:28:10 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 22, 2018, 03:35:29 PM
The other 30 GMS had no interest in Mudiay or Mario at that money.

I don't know what the fuck he means.......anyone else?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 22, 2018, 09:14:15 PM
Quote from: Urethra_Franklin on October 22, 2018, 08:24:09 PM
Apparently Fizzy had a talk with Timmy about the importance of teamwork. I have a feeling he'll be coaching us for the next decade

Actually THJ stated on his own to the press that he thought he shot too much vs Nets

When mentioned to Fizdale, Coach remarked that he didnt mind Tim taking that many.

The game was a bit of an outlier when it comes to assists of course (8 in the other 2 games combined)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 22, 2018, 09:27:54 PM
heh

Melo.....

https://sports.yahoo.com/did-carmelo-anthony-accidently-cause-163446224.html (https://sports.yahoo.com/did-carmelo-anthony-accidently-cause-163446224.html)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 22, 2018, 09:33:54 PM
Jonathan Isaac cooking Tatum tonight

MAGIC with 4 guys sporting double doubles

Isaac, Vucevic, Fournier and Augustin
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on October 22, 2018, 10:09:21 PM
Fun 3rd quarter and 4th.

Like the lineup before our non-defending "stars" came back into the game, even if it's clearly flawed.

Good energy and fight.

Another "Greek" tragedy awaits to end this one in the 4th?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on October 22, 2018, 10:30:25 PM
Celts couldn't buy a hoop tonight.

Improved ball movement, but nothing was falling.

Still a week before Halloween, but Celts are in full trick or treat mode.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 22, 2018, 10:38:55 PM
Glad we put some fight in it for a while. We got sucked in against GA and the resulting open 3s killed us. Middleton was automatic. Maybe Knox can start to guard one or both of them effectively in a year or two. Lopez has a nice new home.

I was very glad to see Mario and Dotson have productive games. We need them to keep getting better.

We need more Vonleh.

Ron played about the right number of minutes.

Hardaway has to figure out what to do with late game pressure.

Good scrappy games from Burke and Kanter.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on October 22, 2018, 11:42:59 PM
If its a rebuild (tank) year by all means go with Frank and Lance. The team can actually score 113 with those two goose eggs in the starting line-up, very entertaining.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 23, 2018, 04:49:00 AM
There you go, a solid game from Zonja.
Sorry Kam, but it's dumb to say Zonja should be gone after the season, without seeing how he does during the season.

I only saw the last 3 mins and some highlights.
Zonja had some nice fakes and drives, got to his spots and got his shot off.  Looked comfortable.  Something to build on.  Wally said Mario played pretty good D on Anti-Greek.

So was Tim mostly on Middleton?
Tim's statline looks allright, but I saw Tim shoot a late airball 3,  he fouled out, also a game worst -25 (Mario a - 14).  Though none of that will affect his PER (#heh)

Franc 5 assists, but just 5 Pts.
Baker 5 stitches in 1 minute of play.
Must be leading the league in stitches per minute.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 23, 2018, 11:29:21 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 23, 2018, 04:49:00 AM

So was Tim mostly on Middleton?


Middleton embarrassed most of the Knick lineup at one point or another ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Pharoah on October 23, 2018, 06:19:50 PM
Well...that Bucks game had my favorite offensive sequences of the early season. There was real ball movement, players not settling for jumpers and the team erased a couple of serious deficits...all with a second unit that threw out the isolations. The Frank/Dotson combo was on point, helped along by a Hezonja's spite for Clarence Gaines; Allonzo Trier buying-in; and the continued quality play of Noah Vonleh. The starting unit had flashes as well, with Trey Burke blacking out in the third quarter to hide three subpar quarters of play; Tim Hardaway is still not as efficient as we'd like but he's adding some assists in the past two; and Enes Kanter is still pumping out double-doubles even though his pick and roll defense is alarming to me. Fiz is gonna have to figure out how to make this mixture work, but he may have stumbled on a way to get his offense less stagnant all thanks to Ron Baker concussing himself like a Will Ferrell stunt-double.

Frank: Let's start with the most polarizing performance of the night. Frank Ntilikina led the Knicks in minutes with 35 but contributed very little scoring; 2/6 for 5 points. But Ron Baker's face first journey into Noah Vonleh's elbow also saw Frank shift to the primary ball handler of the second unit where he tallied 5 assists to just 1 TO and reminded everybody just how good he is defending the point of attack. The offense for Frank came on a variety of simple swings and pick and roll kickouts that took advantage of Dotson and Hezonja's offensive skillsets. The sequences without an iso-scoring floor general led to some of the best teamwork all season and as much as we want to see Frank take the scoring reins; I don't want that to happen at the expense of the Knicks offensive system continuing to look so stagnant. Equally important though, Frank's defense was really impressive last night in spite of logging no steals or blocks. When his defensive assignment can't knock Frank off balance with their size, he's close to a shut down presence already. I'd like to see him attack the paint more and pull the three pointer even if the defender is starting to close out, but his case for being a PG was laid out in how smooth the offense flowed when he finally got an opportunity.

THJ: Tim Hardaway Jr is always going to take some crazy shots in a game. But he also has a knack for making momentum baskets that come with the zero conscious shooting. 10/23 from the field and 3/9 from three for 24 points, 3 assists and 2 rebounds for the Knicks top scorer. He's playing himself into a volume role that I think he could be better than with just some restraint and more mindful passing. That's twice now that he's logged 3 assists in a game and that's with him settling for long contested jumpers early in the shot clock on multiple occasions. If he changes those to moments where he resets, the opportunity to pick up an extra assist or get a better shot off will come with it. Defensively, he like everyone else struggled to even contain Khris Middleton and if there's one starter that goes under the screen too often...

Kanter: Speaking of poor pick and roll habits; I've already gone off on this hole in Kanter's game after the Nets. Kanter just doesn't know how to stop teams from scoring in these situations and everybody knows it. The Bucks offense looked different when Kanter was out there compared to Vonleh. That said, Kanter is providing enough offense and rebounding that when he does piece together a couple of nice defensive plays in a row you notice it. 14 points and 13 rebounds in 32 minutes on 6/12 from the field. The Knicks are getting killed on the boards and he's keeping it from getting completely out of hand. Having the big man work in the post when the team needs to settle down is big too, because their other reliable offensive player is Tim Hardaway with the shot selection of Stacy Patton from Eddie. That said, at the end of close games I'm not sure you can afford to have a pick and roll liability in there. One wrinkle that does warrant mention; Kanter's shooting from midrange was really good last night. The Bucks gave him space and he took advantage which could be really helpful moving forward both to get Robinson/Vonleh extra minutes at the four (covering for Kanter's poor rim protection) and for opening lanes to guys like Hardaway and Trier.

Burke: I was getting ready to DOG Trey Burke after that first half. It was his worst defensive performance of the season imo and watching the offense flow with he and THJ off the court had me ready to go in. But then he found Trey.I. form in the third quarter and made that hard for me to justify. Burke is a microwave, who exploded for 15 points in the third quarter on 7/10 shooting to bring the Knicks back from a 19 point deficit to a neck and neck battle. For the night he pumped in 19 pts, 5 rebounds and 4 assists to 3 TO's in 22 minutes. That's a ton of production in short time and I want to see improvement in the Assist to TO ratio, but the third quarter explosion is why you get him out there for 20 minutes a night. He can be lightning in a bottle under the right circumstances. Like Kanter, there are points in the game where I just don't trust him out there but when the Knicks are looking for scoring...he's always worth a look.

Lance: Fan poll...what stood out to you from Lance's performance last night? If you said absolutely nothing, I don't blame you. 18 minutes for 4 points and 4 rebounds in a game where Giannis was too good for even Lance's typical intangibles to shine.

Dotson: Damyean Dotson has been flashing scoring ability and pure shooting since late last season but it has been frustratingly inconsistent. Even in summer league it felt like he could do so much more than he was for entire games. But he looked more assertive in preseason and that has continued into his first two appearances of the season. Last night he punctuated a 14 point, 8 rebound performance with a rabid defensive effort that saw him all over the floor. 32 minutes 5/13 from the field and 4/8 from three with a pair of steals to round out the night for Dotson. His willingness to pull that three is huge and his scoring ability gives him an immediate edge over Ron Baker as a value. He also showed good rebounding effort throughout his rookie campaign and that translated to 8 boards against the Bucks. For a team that's short on rebounders and three point shooting, he's got a chance to consume a role with plenty of opportunities to produce.

Super Mario: Clarence Gaines pulled some Phil Jackson woo woo magic; publicly criticizing a player who responded with his best performance of the young season. Mario played his best defense of the season from both an effort and focus perspective. He still made mistakes and gave up some baskets but more than made up for it on the other end. 8/16 and 2/5 from three for Mario to produce 18 points, 4 rebounds, 3 assists and 2 steals in 30 minutes. Offensively it was a combination of decisiveness and being willing to take what the defense gave him that got Mario going for most of the night. It's notable that he did slip into head scratching territory on some heat check chucks that even Tim Hardaway would apologize for taking. But credit Fiz for benching him for effort last game and Clarence Gaines for making sure we all knew it.

Vonleh: As a sucker for defense, I have to shout out Noah Vonleh who has either been really good on that end or just looks great conflated with Enes Kanter. Noah Vonleh was willing to challenge Giannis at the rack repeatedly and that's a scary circumstance. When he found himself on an island off a pick and roll switch, he dug in and gave good effort to mixed results. He had the Knicks only 2 blocks logged on the stat sheet. For a team lacking rim protection, he deserved a spotlight and some orchestral music. 11 points and 5 boards in 19 minutes for Vonleh who went 3/5 from the field and got to the line 6 times. As good as Enes Kanter has been in certain areas, I'd love to see Vonleh eat into Kanter's time a bit more. This kid turned 23 in August; is athletic as hell, plays within himself and I repeat...HE'S THE ONLY INTERIOR PRESENCE ON DEFENSE THAT FIZDALE HAS.

Trier: Allonzo Trier saw Dotson and Hezonja going off; let them do their work and set out to impact the game elsewhere...I loved it. 17 minutes just 4 points on 3 attempts but he added 4 assists with no TO's and also played some defense. Trier didn't let lack of attempts get to him, he actually helped spark other guys. He didn't force things to get himself going or slack defensively because someone missed him when he was open. The team mentality of that second unit was refreshing and the fact that they didn't need Trier to bail them out partially speaks to Trier making the cut or extra pass that makes things easier for other people at the expense of him getting to isolate. He'll need to find balance, of course. He's too good a scorer to only put in 4 points on a night; but that he can have a game where the shooting and dribbling takes a backseat to the passing and defending is a testament to potential that goes beyond typical scoring wing roles.

Baker: In one minute Ron Baker managed to tally -5 in +/-, 5 stitches to the forward and one full sprint into a teammate's elbow. Dude tried to tank the screen like he forgot he was on offense and that's literally all he did on the court.

Fiz: Fiz stuck with the hot hands and it meant the rotation tightened up but continuity looked really good. He kinda stumbled into....Baker stumbled into Frank becoming the second unit primary ball handler, but Fiz should get some credit for sticking with it. There was a timeout late where I thought the Knicks were riding momentum and Fiz shoulda let them keep going. Timmy had just taken and made a wild three pointer but it was part of a 5-0 run with back to back stops and the play out of that TO was ugly again. This is sorta me nitpicking though because a lot of Fizdale's moves worked out. Dotson got a much bigger role and rewarded his coach. The same is true of Hezonja. Everyone was working hard even after going down 19 points on the road to a top 4 Eastern Conference team. With the roster limitations, I can forgive Fizdale relying heavily on Timmy and Kanter early on. I HOPE that he'll slowly dilute their touches and time with looks for younger guys; but I get why he and team are relying so much on those two. I DO want to monitor his late game TO's and specifically the plays he's drawing up out of them. It's waaaay too early to panic or even make a bold claim, but I've been disappointed at what he's drawn up to get us late baskets in close games. Oddly enough, I've thought earlier in the game we've come out of time outs with some nifty movement to get guys good looks though. So idk, we do these every game to look for patterns and a third time would be a charm there.

Lastly: If the Knicks are going to pick top five, these are the kinds of losses I won't mind. The youth balled out and Fiz let the players that did the most effective work continue to play regardless of age. Hard work was rewarded both on the scoreboard and with coaching decisions. The message to the team was clear, if you earn minutes you'll get them. It's painful to lose of course and especially with how the Bucks closed so strong while the Knicks floundered. But that the youngest team in the NBA has forced the Celtics and Bucks to FIGHT and dig in late in games places the Knicks ahead of where I figured they would be right now. None of the young guys have been very consistent except for maybe Vonleh (who's been in the league a while himself); but there have been flashes of upside from Knox, Frank, Dotson, Hezonja, Vonleh, Trier and I'd even add Burke. You can see potential to fit into NBA rotation roles for all of these guys. Mitch seemed poised until his ankle injury too. We're already seeing some of the tools necessary to place around KP; likely another draft pick; and potentially another high paid free agent (Khris Middleton's audition was impressive). Don't get discouraged by the W/L, don't get too high or low on the kids and let's enjoy this ride.
Title: Thumbs Up
Post by: chipstern on October 23, 2018, 06:35:43 PM
Quote from: Pharoah on October 23, 2018, 06:19:50 PM
Well...that Bucks game had my favorite offensive sequences of the early season. There was real ball movement, players not settling for jumpers and the team erased a couple of serious deficits...all with a second unit that threw out the isolations. The Frank/Dotson combo was on point, helped along by a Hezonja's spite for Clarence Gaines; Allonzo Trier buying-in; and the continued quality play of Noah Vonleh. The starting unit had flashes as well, with Trey Burke blacking out in the third quarter to hide three subpar quarters of play; Tim Hardaway is still not as efficient as we'd like but he's adding some assists in the past two; and Enes Kanter is still pumping out double-doubles even though his pick and roll defense is alarming to me. Fiz is gonna have to figure out how to make this mixture work, but he may have stumbled on a way to get his offense less stagnant all thanks to Ron Baker concussing himself like a Will Ferrell stunt-double.

Frank: Let's start with the most polarizing performance of the night. Frank Ntilikina led the Knicks in minutes with 35 but contributed very little scoring; 2/6 for 5 points. But Ron Baker's face first journey into Noah Vonleh's elbow also saw Frank shift to the primary ball handler of the second unit where he tallied 5 assists to just 1 TO and reminded everybody just how good he is defending the point of attack. The offense for Frank came on a variety of simple swings and pick and roll kickouts that took advantage of Dotson and Hezonja's offensive skillsets. The sequences without an iso-scoring floor general led to some of the best teamwork all season and as much as we want to see Frank take the scoring reins; I don't want that to happen at the expense of the Knicks offensive system continuing to look so stagnant. Equally important though, Frank's defense was really impressive last night in spite of logging no steals or blocks. When his defensive assignment can't knock Frank off balance with their size, he's close to a shut down presence already. I'd like to see him attack the paint more and pull the three pointer even if the defender is starting to close out, but his case for being a PG was laid out in how smooth the offense flowed when he finally got an opportunity.

THJ: Tim Hardaway Jr is always going to take some crazy shots in a game. But he also has a knack for making momentum baskets that come with the zero conscious shooting. 10/23 from the field and 3/9 from three for 24 points, 3 assists and 2 rebounds for the Knicks top scorer. He's playing himself into a volume role that I think he could be better than with just some restraint and more mindful passing. That's twice now that he's logged 3 assists in a game and that's with him settling for long contested jumpers early in the shot clock on multiple occasions. If he changes those to moments where he resets, the opportunity to pick up an extra assist or get a better shot off will come with it. Defensively, he like everyone else struggled to even contain Khris Middleton and if there's one starter that goes under the screen too often...

Kanter: Speaking of poor pick and roll habits; I've already gone off on this hole in Kanter's game after the Nets. Kanter just doesn't know how to stop teams from scoring in these situations and everybody knows it. The Bucks offense looked different when Kanter was out there compared to Vonleh. That said, Kanter is providing enough offense and rebounding that when he does piece together a couple of nice defensive plays in a row you notice it. 14 points and 13 rebounds in 32 minutes on 6/12 from the field. The Knicks are getting killed on the boards and he's keeping it from getting completely out of hand. Having the big man work in the post when the team needs to settle down is big too, because their other reliable offensive player is Tim Hardaway with the shot selection of Stacy Patton from Eddie. That said, at the end of close games I'm not sure you can afford to have a pick and roll liability in there. One wrinkle that does warrant mention; Kanter's shooting from midrange was really good last night. The Bucks gave him space and he took advantage which could be really helpful moving forward both to get Robinson/Vonleh extra minutes at the four (covering for Kanter's poor rim protection) and for opening lanes to guys like Hardaway and Trier.

Burke: I was getting ready to DOG Trey Burke after that first half. It was his worst defensive performance of the season imo and watching the offense flow with he and THJ off the court had me ready to go in. But then he found Trey.I. form in the third quarter and made that hard for me to justify. Burke is a microwave, who exploded for 15 points in the third quarter on 7/10 shooting to bring the Knicks back from a 19 point deficit to a neck and neck battle. For the night he pumped in 19 pts, 5 rebounds and 4 assists to 3 TO's in 22 minutes. That's a ton of production in short time and I want to see improvement in the Assist to TO ratio, but the third quarter explosion is why you get him out there for 20 minutes a night. He can be lightning in a bottle under the right circumstances. Like Kanter, there are points in the game where I just don't trust him out there but when the Knicks are looking for scoring...he's always worth a look.

Lance: Fan poll...what stood out to you from Lance's performance last night? If you said absolutely nothing, I don't blame you. 18 minutes for 4 points and 4 rebounds in a game where Giannis was too good for even Lance's typical intangibles to shine.

Dotson: Damyean Dotson has been flashing scoring ability and pure shooting since late last season but it has been frustratingly inconsistent. Even in summer league it felt like he could do so much more than he was for entire games. But he looked more assertive in preseason and that has continued into his first two appearances of the season. Last night he punctuated a 14 point, 8 rebound performance with a rabid defensive effort that saw him all over the floor. 32 minutes 5/13 from the field and 4/8 from three with a pair of steals to round out the night for Dotson. His willingness to pull that three is huge and his scoring ability gives him an immediate edge over Ron Baker as a value. He also showed good rebounding effort throughout his rookie campaign and that translated to 8 boards against the Bucks. For a team that's short on rebounders and three point shooting, he's got a chance to consume a role with plenty of opportunities to produce.

Super Mario: Clarence Gaines pulled some Phil Jackson woo woo magic; publicly criticizing a player who responded with his best performance of the young season. Mario played his best defense of the season from both an effort and focus perspective. He still made mistakes and gave up some baskets but more than made up for it on the other end. 8/16 and 2/5 from three for Mario to produce 18 points, 4 rebounds, 3 assists and 2 steals in 30 minutes. Offensively it was a combination of decisiveness and being willing to take what the defense gave him that got Mario going for most of the night. It's notable that he did slip into head scratching territory on some heat check chucks that even Tim Hardaway would apologize for taking. But credit Fiz for benching him for effort last game and Clarence Gaines for making sure we all knew it.

Vonleh: As a sucker for defense, I have to shout out Noah Vonleh who has either been really good on that end or just looks great conflated with Enes Kanter. Noah Vonleh was willing to challenge Giannis at the rack repeatedly and that's a scary circumstance. When he found himself on an island off a pick and roll switch, he dug in and gave good effort to mixed results. He had the Knicks only 2 blocks logged on the stat sheet. For a team lacking rim protection, he deserved a spotlight and some orchestral music. 11 points and 5 boards in 19 minutes for Vonleh who went 3/5 from the field and got to the line 6 times. As good as Enes Kanter has been in certain areas, I'd love to see Vonleh eat into Kanter's time a bit more. This kid turned 23 in August; is athletic as hell, plays within himself and I repeat...HE'S THE ONLY INTERIOR PRESENCE ON DEFENSE THAT FIZDALE HAS.

Trier: Allonzo Trier saw Dotson and Hezonja going off; let them do their work and set out to impact the game elsewhere...I loved it. 17 minutes just 4 points on 3 attempts but he added 4 assists with no TO's and also played some defense. Trier didn't let lack of attempts get to him, he actually helped spark other guys. He didn't force things to get himself going or slack defensively because someone missed him when he was open. The team mentality of that second unit was refreshing and the fact that they didn't need Trier to bail them out partially speaks to Trier making the cut or extra pass that makes things easier for other people at the expense of him getting to isolate. He'll need to find balance, of course. He's too good a scorer to only put in 4 points on a night; but that he can have a game where the shooting and dribbling takes a backseat to the passing and defending is a testament to potential that goes beyond typical scoring wing roles.

Baker: In one minute Ron Baker managed to tally -5 in +/-, 5 stitches to the forward and one full sprint into a teammate's elbow. Dude tried to tank the screen like he forgot he was on offense and that's literally all he did on the court.

Fiz: Fiz stuck with the hot hands and it meant the rotation tightened up but continuity looked really good. He kinda stumbled into....Baker stumbled into Frank becoming the second unit primary ball handler, but Fiz should get some credit for sticking with it. There was a timeout late where I thought the Knicks were riding momentum and Fiz shoulda let them keep going. Timmy had just taken and made a wild three pointer but it was part of a 5-0 run with back to back stops and the play out of that TO was ugly again. This is sorta me nitpicking though because a lot of Fizdale's moves worked out. Dotson got a much bigger role and rewarded his coach. The same is true of Hezonja. Everyone was working hard even after going down 19 points on the road to a top 4 Eastern Conference team. With the roster limitations, I can forgive Fizdale relying heavily on Timmy and Kanter early on. I HOPE that he'll slowly dilute their touches and time with looks for younger guys; but I get why he and team are relying so much on those two. I DO want to monitor his late game TO's and specifically the plays he's drawing up out of them. It's waaaay too early to panic or even make a bold claim, but I've been disappointed at what he's drawn up to get us late baskets in close games. Oddly enough, I've thought earlier in the game we've come out of time outs with some nifty movement to get guys good looks though. So idk, we do these every game to look for patterns and a third time would be a charm there.

Lastly: If the Knicks are going to pick top five, these are the kinds of losses I won't mind. The youth balled out and Fiz let the players that did the most effective work continue to play regardless of age. Hard work was rewarded both on the scoreboard and with coaching decisions. The message to the team was clear, if you earn minutes you'll get them. It's painful to lose of course and especially with how the Bucks closed so strong while the Knicks floundered. But that the youngest team in the NBA has forced the Celtics and Bucks to FIGHT and dig in late in games places the Knicks ahead of where I figured they would be right now. None of the young guys have been very consistent except for maybe Vonleh (who's been in the league a while himself); but there have been flashes of upside from Knox, Frank, Dotson, Hezonja, Vonleh, Trier and I'd even add Burke. You can see potential to fit into NBA rotation roles for all of these guys. Mitch seemed poised until his ankle injury too. We're already seeing some of the tools necessary to place around KP; likely another draft pick; and potentially another high paid free agent (Khris Middleton's audition was impressive). Don't get discouraged by the W/L, don't get too high or low on the kids and let's enjoy this ride.

A learned, reasoned, witty analysis as always.

A refreshing change from self-absorbed, reactionary fatwas.

You have my proxy, dude. 

(https://media.giphy.com/media/OR2vyWHBcm9Us/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 23, 2018, 10:37:30 PM
OK lets hear the guesses

5 Knick players with PER above 15.0

7 players above 10.0  (OUCH)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 23, 2018, 10:50:11 PM
Vonleh Kanter Hardaway Burke and probably Trier

—————

Whoops! It was Dotson in 5th. Forgot how much the kid rebounds. Soooo much better than Baker in every aspect of basketball. Trier and Mario are the two in low teens.
Title: NAGELIAN Alert
Post by: chipstern on October 23, 2018, 11:35:47 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on October 23, 2018, 11:29:21 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 23, 2018, 04:49:00 AM

So was Tim mostly on Middleton?


Middleton embarrassed most of the Knick lineup at one point or another ...

This 6'8" SF sharpshooter has a player option in the summer of 2019.  Presently making 13 million. 

Certainly made a case for himself to be considered among options to accept Knicks cap dollars, as per the audition Pharoah spoke of...
Title: Free Throw Attempts
Post by: chipstern on October 24, 2018, 01:59:03 AM
Interesting Stat

Free Throws

Based On MOST ATTEMPTS

Hardaway

18-20

.900

Vonleh

12-18

.667

Trier

15-17

.882

Kanter

13-14

.929


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 24, 2018, 08:13:22 AM
Yeah... Middleton would be interesting

But Budenholzer has reworked his game - now up to 11 in 100 possessions that he shoots a 3 - double from previous norm

If Milwaukee shows the dollars - and especially if they are winning (certainly a darkhorse EC finalist this year) KM likely stays.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 24, 2018, 01:39:54 PM
We're young and rebuilding.
I'd rather look for the next Middleton, rather than pay a big price for him now.  In fact I was touting Middleton and Covington a few years ago before they blew up.

Bucks have a strong starting 5.  Need Bled to stay healthy.
And a decent bench.
Wonder if they'll get anything out of their yute: ThonMaker; DJ Wilson, Sterling Brown and DiVencenzo.  If one of them comes alive could really boost their rotation.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 24, 2018, 02:59:27 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 24, 2018, 01:39:54 PM
We're young and rebuilding.
I'd rather look for the next Middleton, rather than pay a big price for him now.  In fact I was touting Middleton and Covington a few years ago before they blew up.

Bucks have a strong starting 5.  Need Bled to stay healthy.
And a decent bench.
Wonder if they'll get anything out of their yute: ThonMaker; DJ Wilson, Sterling Brown and DiVencenzo.  If one of them comes alive could really boost their rotation.

You were ahead of the bell curve on Jaylen Brown as well. 

I believe we drafted Knox and signed up Hezonja as a hedge against the price of a Middleton, extra krispy or original recipe. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 24, 2018, 03:18:11 PM
Rebuilding?  Next year?  Are you DAFT?

THJ coming off a big year
KP back
PG situation all sorted out, via progression, trade or free agency
Knox out of Huggies
A top 14 2019 draft selection
Deeeeeep with athletes

2019-20 forecasts to be a playoff year.
Title: Nagel & Biz Meltdown Alert
Post by: chipstern on October 24, 2018, 04:29:49 PM
What happens if Courtney Lee cannot get healthy or establish some minimal trade value?

Ideally for a roster contract expiring in the summer of 2019, we can acquire and dump.

Dotson making a very strong case for himself as a swing SF/SG...big strong body, athletic, plays defense.  Has demonstrated a proclivity for draining treys going back to last season. 

Trier making a very strong case for himself as well.  His stats, in which he has shown a proclivity for consistently getting to the free throw line and draining just under 90%, while assist totals in the last game show him growing more aware as a facilitator, which will make his Isobaric Machinations even more deadly.   And Fizz has pointed to how he closes out on shooters on the defensive side. 

And so now, in the era of small ball, between Hardaway, Dotson and Trier we now find ourselves with a trio of roughly 6'6" athletes who can thrive in transition and drain from long range. 

Between them, many of the skill sets we have come to admire in Courtney Lee, including defensive focus, free throw shooting and long range efficiency, whose neck issues are infuriating, and which were apparently precipitated by a hard foul in pre-season by, who else, Coney Island Bumper Car Pro Temps, Ron Baker. 

So, if Perry & Mills opt to stretch Lee, does that make them morons? 

What options are out there for that idealized deal with a contender? 

And how much rust does Lee have to shake off between now and December to give Perry a gambler's chance of finding him a soft landing?  And us an open roster spot for Trier. 

I know ideas have been floated about re-configuring Kornet's contract to a G League Two-Way, or dispensing with Baker or Mudiay. 

Don't believe Fizz is feeling any of that. 

Looking more like Lee is a candidate for a stretch. 

Noah counts for 6.4 million through the summer of 2022. 

The Post says that a Lee Stretch would be on the books through 2021. 

Ah, me, PHIL JACKSON.  A Gift Which Keeps Giving. 

In the meantime, Trier is a player, and a miraculous stroke of good luck, pushing both Dotson and Timmy to compete even harder, and Fizz likewise seems to be experimenting with him as a ballhandler, least ways, a better option than Ron Baker, his grit and defense duly noted.   

Get QUITE WELL, Very Soon, COURTLY. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 24, 2018, 06:02:55 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 24, 2018, 03:18:11 PM
Rebuilding?  Next year?  Are you DAFT?

THJ coming off a big year
KP back
PG situation all sorted out, via progression, trade or free agency
Knox out of Huggies
A top 14 2019 draft selection
Deeeeeep with athletes

2019-20 forecasts to be a playoff year.

A low playoff seed in the East is still compatible with rebuilding.
After Courtly and Lance, the rest of our team is 26 or younger.
Knox will be just 20, our draft pick likely about the same.
The PG situation is the glaring concern.
Hopefully Tim can improve this year and not just put up scoring numbers due to high usage.

A team starting Burke-Hardaway-Kanter isn't going to go far due to serious defensive shortcomings.  Even if KZ is the next Bill Russell.
We have depth and athletes and some shooters, but really everybody else (including Burke) looks like 2nd unit guys as of now.

Hopefully Knox can have a solid year and become a starter.  And Franc can improve his offense.  That'd jump start our rebuild.  But yeah, I see this as a 3-4 year rebuild, starting last week.
A Key issue will be how well the Kanter-KZ combo is/can be.
And how we fill the starting PG slot.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on October 24, 2018, 08:45:57 PM
Kanter's cap hold is massive.

So big I heard from the guy who does Knicks Film School that we basically can't sign any other players this summer if we don't renounce him.

I don't think he's sticking around, baring some strange set of circumstances.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on October 24, 2018, 08:49:39 PM
Meanwhile Frank not convincing enough. My sense is most likely projected now as a 3 & D type of player.

I hear folks say he's a SF now, but he doesn't rebound.

And he's still so tentative.

I find it interesting Breen and MSG wanted to point out him getting mad at making a bad pass. Normally that's a sign you're losing it or feeling the pressure, but in his case they try to argue that it was a good thing.

I found that odd and maybe just propaganda. I think he may be feeling more pressure this season and knows he's not showing enough.

I'm not entirely giving up hope, but it was more tempered than some of the bigger pom poms last season over his game.

I'm not saying he can't be useful or an "asset" but he seems to lack the chutzpah needed at this level to make a bigger impact.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 24, 2018, 09:51:00 PM
Knix were up 11 after 1Q.
Got creamed in the 3rd.

Last 2 games have been giving up open 3's.

20 & 10 from Dotson.
Zonja was pretty bad.
Etc.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 24, 2018, 10:02:17 PM
Beaten in the second once Burke and Kanter were reinserted.

After Whiteside, Dotson had the second best game. The next three or for were Heat players.

We have to get better at getting the PGs free of pressure and shifting the D. We got lazy in the early parts of possessions. Dotson, Vonleh, and Hardaway brought the best energy there with Trier also being pretty good.

Mitch looked like a battler in his cameo. Hope he continues to work, improve, and earn minutes.

I think Courtney Lee can do well in the type of play we’re trying and that the league is headed to.

I’d rather see Mario work it out with often poor results than anything more from useless Lance.

The same goes double for any other guard over Baker.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 24, 2018, 10:03:21 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 24, 2018, 06:02:55 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 24, 2018, 03:18:11 PM
Rebuilding?  Next year?  Are you DAFT?

THJ coming off a big year
KP back
PG situation all sorted out, via progression, trade or free agency
Knox out of Huggies
A top 14 2019 draft selection
Deeeeeep with athletes

2019-20 forecasts to be a playoff year.

A low playoff seed in the East is still compatible with rebuilding.
After Courtly and Lance, the rest of our team is 26 or younger.
Knox will be just 20, our draft pick likely about the same.
The PG situation is the glaring concern.
Hopefully Tim can improve this year and not just put up scoring numbers due to high usage.

A team starting Burke-Hardaway-Kanter isn't going to go far due to serious defensive shortcomings.  Even if KZ is the next Bill Russell.
We have depth and athletes and some shooters, but really everybody else (including Burke) looks like 2nd unit guys as of now.

Hopefully Knox can have a solid year and become a starter.  And Franc can improve his offense.  That'd jump start our rebuild.  But yeah, I see this as a 3-4 year rebuild, starting last week.
A Key issue will be how well the Kanter-KZ combo is/can be.
And how we fill the starting PG slot.

Is that who you think is starting if we were to add Middleton?

Really?
Title: POSITIVE PUSSIES
Post by: carlos123 on October 24, 2018, 10:54:42 PM
I would like to read what our positive pussies have to say about this game.

I mean, our 2019 pick looks juicier by the game, so I’m happy. Still, true PPs wanna win some games, and even I hate losing by 23 points.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 24, 2018, 11:26:04 PM
If Tim had shot with better efficiency the first four games we would have maybe two more wins. 
Title: PPs #2
Post by: carlos123 on October 24, 2018, 11:34:27 PM
Kam, you ain’t no Positive Pussy, you actually with me in wanting to lose as many games as we can, by 1 point if possible.

I really wanna see Chip’s take on the game.
Title: Re: PPs #2
Post by: chipstern on October 25, 2018, 12:19:29 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on October 24, 2018, 11:34:27 PM
Kam, you ain’t no Positive Pussy, you actually with me in wanting to lose as many games as we can, by 1 point if possible.

I really wanna see Chip’s take on the game.

That was a stinker.

Team wise, for every positive step, three steps backwards. 

DD was a positive. 

Otherwise?  Burke was a disaster.  My man Hezonja hit a couple of sweet jumpers to start, a nice assist or two, then got tentative or began forcing things.  Oddly enough, three drives to the hoop that didn't find net, found rebounds and offensive putbacks.  Was getting burned on defense.  Timmy, in and out of rhythm. 

Team wise, amazing how many threes we hit, and how many twos rolled out.  Kanter and Frank were both out of sorts, though Frank notched five assists.  Fizz needs to find the right buttons to push with Frank in terms of whom he is out on the floor with at any given time.

And you are not going to want to hear this, El Pendejo Grosso, but...we often had no point guard out there tonight. 

We really need Emmanuel Mudiay. 

He is our purest point guard and best facilitator. 

We don't need him to score.

We need him to rudder the ship get us into rhythm and create east hoops for others. 

You know, like a POINT GUARD.  I mean God Bless Ron Baker.  Kid has a lot of heart but no game. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 25, 2018, 07:49:48 AM
Unless Manny shows he ain’t balky no more, I wouldn’t hitch the wagon to him just yet.

I want to see Frank, Dotson, Mario or Knox, Vonleh and Robinson get big burn. I’d like a heavy dose of Hardaway and Trier mixed in.

Kanter and Burke are more than fine offensively, but their physical limitations and the resulting express lane they open through our defense in a bad matchup should determine their deployment. We’re really not invested in either guy long term and they aren’t actually helping us win games though the sample size is admittedly small. They are both already having a hard time maintaining the energy and focus that made them effective in the opener though that is also a factor of increasing opposition talent.

We caught a light version of Boston with Hayward out and Baynes hurt early. Baynes was on his way to eating Kanter up before he pulled up lame.

I hope we manage some fun stretches against the Dubs and maybe even make their starters do some work in the fourth quarter.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 25, 2018, 08:11:39 AM
Cant judge team til Mudiay is out there.

And hope Fiz didnt kill Knoxie's mojo.

WTF last night with the lineups?  Trying to let Mario be the pseudo KP - I get it - but sure was a longleash

And I guess the feeling on Hardaway was to get him some rest.

Players have said the offense is free flowing, with no plays called - and this is to their liking. But it can lead to nights like this - when easy buckets dont come off your defense and THEIR D is stifling

Clearly apparent that the "they have one, we dont" plays poorly for us - when it comes to a shot changer like Whiteside (who Yankguy hates)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on October 25, 2018, 09:14:40 AM
I like Whiteside more than, say, Dwight Howard.  (who Kiid has a never-ending deep passion for) 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Pharoah on October 25, 2018, 11:43:36 AM
Brief thoughts

1. As of right now it appears that Trey Burke is good for scoring but that's it. He's not exhibiting the floor awareness to punish a collapsing defense consistently and when his roll man is covered there's an instinct to just shoot.

2. Timmy's decision making was better last night but watching him jaw at Trey Burke and Enes Kanter wasn't cool to me. Either do it calmly or do it during time out but don't make a scene on the court midgame when you're the biggest culprit for going under screens and late help (leading to and-ones).

3. Kanter can either slow down the PnR ball handler or he can stop the roll man from getting the ball. But he can't do both simultaneously which means when guards go over screens, they get punished more often than not.

4. Frank runs the pick and roll really well. If you hone in on those plays, he's productive point blank. The past two games, he's still splitting time between SF who sits in the corner as a decoy and primary ball handler, but the additional opportunities have led to back to back 5 assist games. 5 assists on limited opportunities is pretty damned good. His three pointer is looking much improved too. But he still only takes what the defense gives him right now and could do with improvising more often for sure.

5. Dotson should start. Let Burke be the guy you sub in and keep in when he's hot, but otherwise let Dotson get out there. He has the best motor on the team, a pure form from range, flashes some handling and played better D than even Frank last night. It was a Khris Middleton-lite game for him. Oh yeah...10 boards too, how long have I been on about his rebounding?

6. I actually was ready to applaud Lance since he made three's and grabbed 6 boards...still a 15 mpg guy in an optimal situation but my God are the rest of our wings bad on defense (honestly that might be why the Frank at SF experiment started too)

7. Mario goes Wario and isn't good enough to do that. He needs a shorter leash when he presses.

8. I really like Vonleh but he'll be undersized against bigger C's and it showed last night.

9. Mitch needs minutes. The Frank/Mitch PnR was really effective but they went to giving Baker chances to run the offense.

10. Baker doesn't need to play imo.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 25, 2018, 12:46:59 PM
Quote from: Pharoah on October 25, 2018, 11:43:36 AM
Brief thoughts

1. As of right now it appears that Trey Burke is good for scoring but that's it. He's not exhibiting the floor awareness to punish a collapsing defense consistently and when his roll man is covered there's an instinct to just shoot.

2. Timmy's decision making was better last night but watching him jaw at Trey Burke and Enes Kanter wasn't cool to me. Either do it calmly or do it during time out but don't make a scene on the court midgame when you're the biggest culprit for going under screens and late help (leading to and-ones).

3. Kanter can either slow down the PnR ball handler or he can stop the roll man from getting the ball. But he can't do both simultaneously which means when guards go over screens, they get punished more often than not.

4. Frank runs the pick and roll really well. If you hone in on those plays, he's productive point blank. The past two games, he's still splitting time between SF who sits in the corner as a decoy and primary ball handler, but the additional opportunities have led to back to back 5 assist games. 5 assists on limited opportunities is pretty damned good. His three pointer is looking much improved too. But he still only takes what the defense gives him right now and could do with improvising more often for sure.

5. Dotson should start. Let Burke be the guy you sub in and keep in when he's hot, but otherwise let Dotson get out there. He has the best motor on the team, a pure form from range, flashes some handling and played better D than even Frank last night. It was a Khris Middleton-lite game for him. Oh yeah...10 boards too, how long have I been on about his rebounding?

6. I actually was ready to applaud Lance since he made three's and grabbed 6 boards...still a 15 mpg guy in an optimal situation but my God are the rest of our wings bad on defense (honestly that might be why the Frank at SF experiment started too)

7. Mario goes Wario and isn't good enough to do that. He needs a shorter leash when he presses.

8. I really like Vonleh but he'll be undersized against bigger C's and it showed last night.

9. Mitch needs minutes. The Frank/Mitch PnR was really effective but they went to giving Baker chances to run the offense.

10. Baker doesn't need to play imo.

Obviously Mudiay and Knox getting hurt has had an effect on the rotations. 

[I found Kiid's comment about Fizdale queering Knox's mojo bizarre.  Had just come off of a positive all-around rebound when he hurt his ankle.  One may assume Fizz has triggered Kiid's snark mechanism.]

As soon as Emmanuel can show he's got 20 a night in him, got to figure Baker goes into cameo mode. 

Your idea about Dotson is interesting, as is Frank more on the point with Robinson.  Don't think Fizz is prepared to queer the confidence of Burke and Kanter off of a setback game, though a quicker sub may be coming. 

I can recall numerous possessions where Trier was bringing the ball into play.  Not sure about Dotson being effective in that mode.  Me?  I'd like to see how Frank starting at PG, with Timmy at SG and Demyean at SF, Vonleh at PF and Kanter at center works out, with some combo of Burke, Mudiay, Trier, Robinson, Thomas, Hezonja coming off the pine.   

As for the long leash on Hezonja, Fizz went from the short leash to the long leash, and I don't think he is going to go back to the short leash anytime soon, with Knox out, as he is trying to find that balance between confidence, efficiency and decision making. 

Certainly be interesting how our young guards respond to Steph Curry coming off of a nuclear performance, let alone how our thin front line responds to Durant, also playing at a high pitch. 

Defense, which had been encouraging coming out of the gate, took a punch in the mouth last night in a rain of treys.  And that was MIAMI, let alone GOLDEN STATE.  Looking for some pride tonight.  Interesting test for the team and our coaching staff. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on October 25, 2018, 02:33:13 PM
mud is going to save this team?

that is funny.

what is going to save this team is a healthy KP, signing a type A free agent next year, drafting a VERY high lottery pick, developing Knox and somehow finding a legit point guard who does not presently exist on this roster.

unless all of those things happen we will continue to be  irrelevant.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 25, 2018, 03:07:55 PM
Zonja was often out of position on D, and struggled on O.
He really is a mistake player, and it's going to take a lot to sort out his head/decision-making.

I was a little disappointed to see Vonleh force some shots, including one where he was triple-teamed.  Maybe the staff asked him to look to score more, but I was pleased when he was playing more within himself.  Wasn't a bad game for Vonleh, just some worrisome signs, imo.

Tim's defense was subpar, and there was nl reason to reinsert him down 16 going into the 4Q.  Especially since he has been playing big minutes.

Dotson has been better all around than I expected.  I hadn't seen him before the past few games, and I thought it was likely a case of folks here touting a 2nd rounder with limitations (like with Hicks & Kornet Chop Suey).  But Dotson has been shooting well from outside, cuts well, has taken some charges and played pretty good D.  We'll see if he can keep it up -- and he's no doubt made the scouting report by now -- but he has looked like a budding two-way player.

With Burke & Datsun in the rotation I kind of regret only checking out one Westchester game last year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 25, 2018, 04:17:15 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on October 25, 2018, 09:14:40 AM
I like Whiteside more than, say, Dwight Howard.  (who Kiid has a never-ending deep passion for)

14 years

1035 games

21.6 PER

128.3 win shares

110-99 offense-defense efficiency

Better in playoffs than reg season (10 trips in 14 years)

Playoff rebound per leader 5X
Playoff blocks per leader 3X

Has averaged SEVENTY FOUR games played over 14 seasons

Yeah, I like him, idiot.

Full story here..... had some baggage - and has persevered.

https://www.si.com/nba/2017/09/19/dwight-howard-hornets-magic-lakers-james-harden-kobe-bryant (https://www.si.com/nba/2017/09/19/dwight-howard-hornets-magic-lakers-james-harden-kobe-bryant)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 25, 2018, 04:37:40 PM
Quote from: Nagel on October 25, 2018, 02:33:13 PM


what is going to save this team is a healthy KP, signing a type A free agent next year, drafting a VERY high lottery pick, developing Knox and somehow finding a legit point guard who does not presently exist on this roster.



Of course

But we have to play THESE games first.
Title: But does the team want to be saved?
Post by: Kam on October 25, 2018, 04:51:20 PM
We might have the worst team in the league.  Play that to our advantage.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 25, 2018, 05:01:54 PM
By banking on Frank and thus not taking a point guard this year, we are almost locked into looking for one in the next draft.

Lots of good SG/SF types in the top of the draft - and alas......yes - we have THJ and Knox filling those roles.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 25, 2018, 05:03:04 PM
Dwight's also a career 56% FT shooter, with 3 years under 50%.
Also, never averaged 2 assists per game any season.
It's odd because he still puts up numbers, just not impactful numbers.

Distractions and some back injuries limited him.
And he never expanded his game.
Basically he lost his way, and never found who he was.
Seems for years now he plays basketball because it pays him well and he always played basketball.  Would probably be happier doing something else.

He's coming up on 33 (early December).
Should get to 20K points (1 shy of 18K now), if he plays two or 3 seasons.  Right now 14th in career rebounds (2 ahead of Shaq).
3x DPOY; 8x all-star.
HoF?
Probably, but maybe no one will be too excited.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on October 25, 2018, 05:04:07 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 25, 2018, 04:17:15 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on October 25, 2018, 09:14:40 AM
I like Whiteside more than, say, Dwight Howard.  (who Kiid has a never-ending deep passion for)

14 years

1035 games

21.6 PER

128.3 win shares

110-99 offense-defense efficiency

Better in playoffs than reg season (10 trips in 14 years)

Playoff rebound per leader 5X
Playoff blocks per leader 3X

Has averaged SEVENTY FOUR games played over 14 seasons

Yeah, I like him, idiot.

Full story here..... had some baggage - and has persevered.

https://www.si.com/nba/2017/09/19/dwight-howard-hornets-magic-lakers-james-harden-kobe-bryant (https://www.si.com/nba/2017/09/19/dwight-howard-hornets-magic-lakers-james-harden-kobe-bryant)
Heh.  "Idiot"
Title: We don't have to draft a PG
Post by: Kam on October 25, 2018, 05:06:21 PM
We can acquire one through draft trade or FA.

I would still give Frank at least one start at PG before moving on.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 25, 2018, 05:21:05 PM
Knix needed a lot and Knox looks like a good pick.

What PG were we going to take?
Shai?  #16 pick Zhaire?

You take Shai and then what do you do with Franc?
And then you still need a studly wing.

And Franc has plenty of room for growth.
Title: New Forum Post
Post by: Kam on October 25, 2018, 05:30:50 PM
http://forums.escapefromelba.com/index.php?topic=13.msg72837#msg72837 (http://forums.escapefromelba.com/index.php?topic=13.msg72837#msg72837)
Title: In case you missed it
Post by: Kam on October 25, 2018, 05:35:40 PM
http://forums.escapefromelba.com/index.php?topic=13.msg71168#msg71168 (http://forums.escapefromelba.com/index.php?topic=13.msg71168#msg71168)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 25, 2018, 07:55:01 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 25, 2018, 05:21:05 PM
Knix needed a lot and Knox looks like a good pick.

What PG were we going to take?
Shai?  #16 pick Zhaire?

You take Shai and then what do you do with Franc?
And then you still need a studly wing.

And Franc has plenty of room for growth.

Burke might be more effective coming off of the bench as an offensive fireplug, perhaps playing off the ball with Mudiay and Trier. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 25, 2018, 08:22:48 PM
I wouldn't dare try to guess lineups with this guy when Emmanuel returns.

Heck - when KP is back.

Who knows - at any specific time, which 5 will be out there?

A mess.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on October 25, 2018, 09:20:44 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 25, 2018, 04:37:40 PM
Quote from: Nagel on October 25, 2018, 02:33:13 PM


what is going to save this team is a healthy KP, signing a type A free agent next year, drafting a VERY high lottery pick, developing Knox and somehow finding a legit point guard who does not presently exist on this roster.



Of course

But we have to play THESE games first.

yes of course we do.  unfortunately.

our coach, who i like BTW, must use this time to see if any our talent is worth  keeping ( knox is a given) and our GM should really be trying to move Thomas and Lee to improve our cap space for next year.

Personally I'd give Burke,  Dotson, Vonleh and Frank lots of minutes to try to develop them and perhaps they could become valuable members of the bench.

PS

i don't see any of them a future starters.




Title: Mudiay
Post by: chipstern on October 25, 2018, 11:33:50 PM
2018-2019

We shall see what we've got.  Don't sleep on him. 
Title: Re: Mudiay
Post by: Kam on October 26, 2018, 12:24:37 AM
Quote from: chipstern on October 25, 2018, 11:33:50 PM

 Don't sleep on him.


(https://fashioncorner.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Sleeping-Better-dont-snooze-300x194.jpg)(https://ubisafe.org/images250_/attributed-clipart-executive.jpg)(https://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue41/images/Chip%20Stern%20Delta%20Moon%20[Potis].jpg)
 I love you Chip.  You never gave up on me.    But i'm so sleepy... tell me again about the rabbits.
(https://nbcprobasketballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/cd0ymzcznguwzdbhnduynddiytjhm2yyzthlmtjjotqwyyznpwu5mgexmmixmtnjmtfhmzyxmdvhmtq4ogzjzme4ngji-e1415557852296.jpeg?w=610&h=343&crop=1)
Title: 5 games in
Post by: Kam on October 26, 2018, 12:35:15 AM
Need to see 5 more games

Is Vonleh really ... good?

Is Hardaway really ... improved?

Is Ntilikina really ... part of the teams plans?
Title: Who am I?
Post by: Kam on October 26, 2018, 12:45:18 AM
1. I wear #11 for the Knicks
2. I'm from France
3. I was drafted 8th in 2017 as a PG
4. I've started exactly ZERO games at PG
5. My first name is Frank
6. My last name is Ntilikina
7. People call me Frank Ntilikina
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 26, 2018, 05:31:06 AM
Quote from: chipstern on October 25, 2018, 07:55:01 PM
Burke might be more effective coming off of the bench as an offensive fireplug, perhaps playing off the ball with Mudiay and Trier.

Does anyone see Burke as a starting PG on a good team?
I think it's pretty clear he's a backup PG who can score in bunches.
Burke's merely our default starter for the time being.
Pretty good for a scrap heap pickup, coming out of the Gamma-League. 

Getting a quality starting PG is Knick Major Priority #1.
Title: Re: Who am I?
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 26, 2018, 07:34:50 AM
Quote from: Kam on October 26, 2018, 12:45:18 AM
1. I wear #11 for the Knicks
2. I'm from France
3. I was drafted 8th in 2017 as a PG
4. I am NOT an NBA PG.  Knicks NEED a PG
5. My first name is Frank
6. My last name is Ntilikina
7. People call me Frank Ntilikina

fixed
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 26, 2018, 08:08:20 AM
I would hope we haven't seen the best of 2018-19 Burke yet.

But bears watching what effect Fizdale's "whatexactlyisit" offense has had on Trey.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 26, 2018, 11:18:00 AM
yeah that's a good descriptor.
So far under Fiz folks are excited and active, but it's usually that way early when everybody is playing and slots are up for grabs.
Still haven't seen anything that convinces me we shouldn't have furiously gone after Budenholzer or Casey (who are currently 8-0).
Not criticizing, yet, just saying.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 26, 2018, 12:07:47 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on October 26, 2018, 11:18:00 AM
yeah that's a good descriptor.
So far under Fiz folks are excited and active, but it's usually that way early when everybody is playing and slots are up for grabs.
Still haven't seen anything that convinces me we shouldn't have furiously gone after Budenholzer or Casey (who are currently 8-0).
Not criticizing, yet, just saying.

Slight disparity in talent.

Just saying. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 26, 2018, 12:27:07 PM
You are 100% correct.

And I am enjoying our season and am in no way disappointed in our coach.

The offensive vision is still really unclear, however. At some point we should be starting to understand even though it can't fully unfold until next year's roster is assembled.

But will be impossible to justify the choice unless it's pretty kick-ass when it finally does.

Given that the aforementioned two guys were free and clear, and our guy hadn't actually achieved a whole lot outside of really pissing off Marc Gasol.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 26, 2018, 02:23:40 PM
This will be the first game I won’t get a chance to watch. Whatever happens, I will take Pharoh’s word for it.

I’d see if Milwaukee would take Burke for Christian Wood. They’re not using Wood, they have copious rim protection and bigger guys who distribute already, and could use the change of pace scoring punch in getting on top of the East now. They are already invested in Maker at the same spot.

We have Trier to do a decent Trey impression, Mud coming back to get a pg look, and Frank emerging as the best PG on the team.

We could really use a mobile defensive big like Wood. Robinson will get there, but Wood’s outside corner game makes him compatible with our other bigs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 26, 2018, 02:28:37 PM
i like the idea of trading Burke.  A starter now but not in our long term plans.  Sell high as you can.  Get what you can get.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 26, 2018, 02:49:44 PM
I like the idea of being able to use Wood and Vonleh at least until Mitch and KP are ready. Kanter as well to bang the first 5 minutes and onward as the matchups are right. Mitch is ready for minutes and experiences but not a pivotal (excuse the pun) role. I feel like the longer we give KP the more we’ll get. We can let Kornet go and lock in Trier as a result.

Kanter Wood Robinson (raw)
Vonleh Thomas KP (ACL)
Dotson Hezonja Knox (ankle)
Hardaway Baker Lee (kneck)
Ntilikina Trier Mudiay (ankle)

With five guys out, you can look at the two-way guys, Hicks & I presume Kadeem Allen, though you could hold a tryout.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 26, 2018, 03:41:24 PM
I think Kornet, like Mudiay, has a role on this team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 26, 2018, 03:48:42 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 26, 2018, 03:41:24 PM
I think Kornet, like Mudiay, has a role on this team.

You like guys with slow feet and weak reflexes on D. I get it. You make it very clear. I’m sure that works great in today’s bump and grind NBA.

I like Kornet. I also see why we don’t use him.
Title: Kornets role
Post by: Kam on October 26, 2018, 04:07:37 PM
Guard KP in practice
Play garbage time minutes
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 26, 2018, 04:22:35 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on October 26, 2018, 12:27:07 PM
You are 100% correct.

And I am enjoying our season and am in no way disappointed in our coach.

The offensive vision is still really unclear, however. At some point we should be starting to understand even though it can't fully unfold until next year's roster is assembled.

But will be impossible to justify the choice unless it's pretty kick-ass when it finally does.

Given that the aforementioned two guys were free and clear, and our guy hadn't actually achieved a whole lot outside of really pissing off Marc Gasol.

Bud doing a great job in Milwaukee. 

Casey a great match for Detroit. 

I think Mills & Perry wanted to grow their own, as it were. 

Not that they were sniffing their noses at Bud, who interviewed and had strong interest in the job. 

But I think Fizz was a better match...for the Knicks. 

As for who sees floor time. 

I think Fizz is trying to make everyone feel as if they got a fair shot, such as Lance, though clearly, leadership notwithstanding, he is a role player and bench bulwark and not part of our long term future. 

I think Baker getting burn in lieu of an injured Mudiay, is also part and parcel of creating a team first ethos. 

Clearly, the likes of Hezonja and Mudiay, have great talent, but are flawed players. 

But the time has come to toss them into the deep end of the pool, though clearly, Fizz raised the bar for Mario in terms of his expectations and that defensive thingy. 

Again, in the minority here, but Mudiay's floor game impressed me in pre-season.  He got us out in transition, and made some great passes to cutters up court. 

Those point guard instincts are really enticing.  Next step for Emmanuel, like Mario, is defense.  Both good passers, whose confidence often buckles when they make mistakes or fail to finish. 

PS: I am NOT inclined to trade Burke off of one stinker, though I think he should come off the bench and play off the ball as often as not. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 26, 2018, 04:38:11 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 26, 2018, 02:28:37 PM
i like the idea of trading Burke.  A starter now but not in our long term plans.  Sell high as you can.  Get what you can get.

I doubt Burke would get us much return.
Nobody is going to want him as a starter.
Most teams have a PG and a backup.
I doubt it's very sell high anyway.

But what are you going to get for him?
A role player/project.
We have lots of role players, lots of projects.
We certainly don't need an SG.
We're not getting a PG back.
We don't need a vet.

I'm not against trading almost all of our team (except KZ & Knox).
But it's hard to see what return Burke would get that is better than Burke.  He looks like a reasonably solid sparkplug backup PG.
We've invested some time in Burke and it's largely paid off.  Reward is ship him out for whatever?

Can wait until closer to the deadline, and maybe some PG gets injured and a playoff team elevates their backup and needs a new backup PG.

In any case still a lot of evaluating to do between Burke, Franc & Mud.
Since Burke projects as a backup PG, I'd start Franc and Mud at the PG and see who rises to the occasion.

[hey Kam, the political pipe bomber used to live in Edison NJ]
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 26, 2018, 04:49:22 PM
And now................THIS:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpiUvIwtPlA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpiUvIwtPlA)
Title: A Berration
Post by: bodiddley on October 26, 2018, 05:11:01 PM
Mud was 3-5 on 3's in that GS game.
The rest of his season with NYK he was 6-41.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on October 26, 2018, 06:13:36 PM
This should be Phun to watch...

Ian Begley @IanBegley
Frank Ntilikina, Tim Hardaway Jr., Damyean Dotson, Noah Vonleh and Mitchell Robinson will start against GSW, David Fizdale says.
Title: Shuffling The Deck Chairs On The Titanic?
Post by: chipstern on October 26, 2018, 06:28:57 PM
Quote from: Jack Straw on October 26, 2018, 06:13:36 PM
This should be Phun to watch...

Ian Begley @IanBegley
Frank Ntilikina, Tim Hardaway Jr., Damyean Dotson, Noah Vonleh and Mitchell Robinson will start against GSW, David Fizdale says.

Well now.  A bold gesture. 

IMAGINATIVE. 

In baseball, that would be referred to as a message pitch. 

And what is the message?

D
E
F
E
N
S
E
Title: Re: A Berration
Post by: chipstern on October 26, 2018, 06:35:42 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 26, 2018, 05:11:01 PM
Mud was 3-5 on 3's in that GS game.
The rest of his season with NYK he was 6-41.

Still, not beyond the realm of possibility. 

Why Perry rolled the dice... 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 26, 2018, 06:55:01 PM
Should be an interesting game for Vonleh.
Also quite a challenge for Franc.
I'd like to see Franc post up Scurry.
Has Franc ever had a NBA post-up?
Burke would make Curry work more on D.
Lets hope Franc aggresses.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Pharoah on October 26, 2018, 07:00:36 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 25, 2018, 12:46:59 PM
Quote from: Pharoah on October 25, 2018, 11:43:36 AM
Brief thoughts

1. As of right now it appears that Trey Burke is good for scoring but that's it. He's not exhibiting the floor awareness to punish a collapsing defense consistently and when his roll man is covered there's an instinct to just shoot.

2. Timmy's decision making was better last night but watching him jaw at Trey Burke and Enes Kanter wasn't cool to me. Either do it calmly or do it during time out but don't make a scene on the court midgame when you're the biggest culprit for going under screens and late help (leading to and-ones).

3. Kanter can either slow down the PnR ball handler or he can stop the roll man from getting the ball. But he can't do both simultaneously which means when guards go over screens, they get punished more often than not.

4. Frank runs the pick and roll really well. If you hone in on those plays, he's productive point blank. The past two games, he's still splitting time between SF who sits in the corner as a decoy and primary ball handler, but the additional opportunities have led to back to back 5 assist games. 5 assists on limited opportunities is pretty damned good. His three pointer is looking much improved too. But he still only takes what the defense gives him right now and could do with improvising more often for sure.

5. Dotson should start. Let Burke be the guy you sub in and keep in when he's hot, but otherwise let Dotson get out there. He has the best motor on the team, a pure form from range, flashes some handling and played better D than even Frank last night. It was a Khris Middleton-lite game for him. Oh yeah...10 boards too, how long have I been on about his rebounding?

6. I actually was ready to applaud Lance since he made three's and grabbed 6 boards...still a 15 mpg guy in an optimal situation but my God are the rest of our wings bad on defense (honestly that might be why the Frank at SF experiment started too)

7. Mario goes Wario and isn't good enough to do that. He needs a shorter leash when he presses.

8. I really like Vonleh but he'll be undersized against bigger C's and it showed last night.

9. Mitch needs minutes. The Frank/Mitch PnR was really effective but they went to giving Baker chances to run the offense.

10. Baker doesn't need to play imo.

Obviously Mudiay and Knox getting hurt has had an effect on the rotations. 

[I found Kiid's comment about Fizdale queering Knox's mojo bizarre.  Had just come off of a positive all-around rebound when he hurt his ankle.  One may assume Fizz has triggered Kiid's snark mechanism.]

As soon as Emmanuel can show he's got 20 a night in him, got to figure Baker goes into cameo mode. 

Your idea about Dotson is interesting, as is Frank more on the point with Robinson.  Don't think Fizz is prepared to queer the confidence of Burke and Kanter off of a setback game, though a quicker sub may be coming. 

I can recall numerous possessions where Trier was bringing the ball into play.  Not sure about Dotson being effective in that mode.  Me?  I'd like to see how Frank starting at PG, with Timmy at SG and Demyean at SF, Vonleh at PF and Kanter at center works out, with some combo of Burke, Mudiay, Trier, Robinson, Thomas, Hezonja coming off the pine.   

As for the long leash on Hezonja, Fizz went from the short leash to the long leash, and I don't think he is going to go back to the short leash anytime soon, with Knox out, as he is trying to find that balance between confidence, efficiency and decision making. 

Certainly be interesting how our young guards respond to Steph Curry coming off of a nuclear performance, let alone how our thin front line responds to Durant, also playing at a high pitch. 

Defense, which had been encouraging coming out of the gate, took a punch in the mouth last night in a rain of treys.  And that was MIAMI, let alone GOLDEN STATE.  Looking for some pride tonight.  Interesting test for the team and our coaching staff.

Fiz appears to have been listening! https://twitter.com/IanBegley/status/1055939615637561345 (https://twitter.com/IanBegley/status/1055939615637561345) I'm genuinely hyped for tonight.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 26, 2018, 08:09:42 PM
Quote from: Pharoah on October 26, 2018, 07:00:36 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 25, 2018, 12:46:59 PM
Quote from: Pharoah on October 25, 2018, 11:43:36 AM
Brief thoughts

1. As of right now it appears that Trey Burke is good for scoring but that's it. He's not exhibiting the floor awareness to punish a collapsing defense consistently and when his roll man is covered there's an instinct to just shoot.

2. Timmy's decision making was better last night but watching him jaw at Trey Burke and Enes Kanter wasn't cool to me. Either do it calmly or do it during time out but don't make a scene on the court midgame when you're the biggest culprit for going under screens and late help (leading to and-ones).

3. Kanter can either slow down the PnR ball handler or he can stop the roll man from getting the ball. But he can't do both simultaneously which means when guards go over screens, they get punished more often than not.

4. Frank runs the pick and roll really well. If you hone in on those plays, he's productive point blank. The past two games, he's still splitting time between SF who sits in the corner as a decoy and primary ball handler, but the additional opportunities have led to back to back 5 assist games. 5 assists on limited opportunities is pretty damned good. His three pointer is looking much improved too. But he still only takes what the defense gives him right now and could do with improvising more often for sure.

5. Dotson should start. Let Burke be the guy you sub in and keep in when he's hot, but otherwise let Dotson get out there. He has the best motor on the team, a pure form from range, flashes some handling and played better D than even Frank last night. It was a Khris Middleton-lite game for him. Oh yeah...10 boards too, how long have I been on about his rebounding?

6. I actually was ready to applaud Lance since he made three's and grabbed 6 boards...still a 15 mpg guy in an optimal situation but my God are the rest of our wings bad on defense (honestly that might be why the Frank at SF experiment started too)

7. Mario goes Wario and isn't good enough to do that. He needs a shorter leash when he presses.

8. I really like Vonleh but he'll be undersized against bigger C's and it showed last night.

9. Mitch needs minutes. The Frank/Mitch PnR was really effective but they went to giving Baker chances to run the offense.

10. Baker doesn't need to play imo.

Obviously Mudiay and Knox getting hurt has had an effect on the rotations. 

[I found Kiid's comment about Fizdale queering Knox's mojo bizarre.  Had just come off of a positive all-around rebound when he hurt his ankle.  One may assume Fizz has triggered Kiid's snark mechanism.]

As soon as Emmanuel can show he's got 20 a night in him, got to figure Baker goes into cameo mode. 

Your idea about Dotson is interesting, as is Frank more on the point with Robinson.  Don't think Fizz is prepared to queer the confidence of Burke and Kanter off of a setback game, though a quicker sub may be coming. 

I can recall numerous possessions where Trier was bringing the ball into play.  Not sure about Dotson being effective in that mode.  Me?  I'd like to see how Frank starting at PG, with Timmy at SG and Demyean at SF, Vonleh at PF and Kanter at center works out, with some combo of Burke, Mudiay, Trier, Robinson, Thomas, Hezonja coming off the pine.   

As for the long leash on Hezonja, Fizz went from the short leash to the long leash, and I don't think he is going to go back to the short leash anytime soon, with Knox out, as he is trying to find that balance between confidence, efficiency and decision making. 

Certainly be interesting how our young guards respond to Steph Curry coming off of a nuclear performance, let alone how our thin front line responds to Durant, also playing at a high pitch. 

Defense, which had been encouraging coming out of the gate, took a punch in the mouth last night in a rain of treys.  And that was MIAMI, let alone GOLDEN STATE.  Looking for some pride tonight.  Interesting test for the team and our coaching staff.

Fiz appears to have been listening! https://twitter.com/IanBegley/status/1055939615637561345 (https://twitter.com/IanBegley/status/1055939615637561345) I'm genuinely hyped for tonight.

So far, so good.

Withstood a Curry Barrage. 

Nice chemistry with second unit. 

Kanter-Thomas-Hezonja-Trier-Burke.

Interesting. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 26, 2018, 08:11:31 PM
GS was doubling the post, but Knix weren't able to take advantage.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 26, 2018, 08:29:54 PM
Hardaway looks the same to me.

Edit: just got dinged up.
But looks like just a bone to bone hit.
Tremendously painful, but goes away after 5 minutes or so.
If it's what I think it is.

Franc must've watched that Mud vid, as he's 3-5 on 3's v GS.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 26, 2018, 08:41:23 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 26, 2018, 08:29:54 PM
Hardaway looks the same to me.

Edit: just got dinged up.
But looks like just a bone to bone hit.
Tremendously painful, but goes away after 5 minutes or so.
If it's what I think it is.

Franc must've watched that Mud vid, as he's 3-5 on 3's v GS.

W
R
O
N
G

Still too many heat check heaves, but he is an offensive force. 

Tied at halftime. 

Can we resist the inevitable 3rd Quarter Cluster Fuck From The Warriors?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 26, 2018, 08:50:18 PM
https://www.nba.com/article/2018/10/26/cousins-ejected-warriors-knicks-game (https://www.nba.com/article/2018/10/26/cousins-ejected-warriors-knicks-game)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 26, 2018, 09:16:29 PM
Pass that leads to the pass that leads to the bucket.......

Hardaway just an incredible talent.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 26, 2018, 09:35:42 PM
not credible.

Durant took over.
NYK could've stolen a W without KD going off.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 26, 2018, 10:00:54 PM
Didn’t realize NBATV was going to carry the game.

We were looking good, but left Kanter in WAY too long. Fizz left Burke in a bit too long as well despite his hot hand.

Tim is ok if he can keep his ego in check.

This should be our starting lineup till KP gets back.

The next job is to find out what bench guys can actually handle their responsibilities and figure out how to close games.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 26, 2018, 10:44:30 PM
Nice starting lineup. Fun to watch the first three quarters.
Coach killed it by leaving that start of the fourth crew in way too long.
But he's learning. And the Warriors would have woken up anyway.
I don't think there's any question left about what we should be doing at point guard. Basically what Kam said about a year ago.
Hardaway? Same as he ever was. Would ditch the contract if I could, but not gonna cry about it.
Very skilled kid. Muffins between the ears.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on October 26, 2018, 11:10:27 PM
Fell asleep after quarter 3, what happened. Good defense and timely shooting to than. Entertaining team with some good pieces for next year. Franky became an offensive threat!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 26, 2018, 11:18:38 PM
What happened? Lol, Fiz left Burke, Trier, Kanter, & Hezonja, then Tim to try and hold off the Warriors 4th quarter charge**




**...what was I saying about coaches? Not a hundred percent sold yet here.
Title: Re: Shuffling The Deck Chairs On The Titanic?
Post by: Kam on October 26, 2018, 11:58:20 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 26, 2018, 06:28:57 PM
Quote from: Jack Straw on October 26, 2018, 06:13:36 PM
This should be Phun to watch...

Ian Begley @IanBegley
Frank Ntilikina, Tim Hardaway Jr., Damyean Dotson, Noah Vonleh and Mitchell Robinson will start against GSW, David Fizdale says.

Well now.  A bold gesture. 

IMAGINATIVE. 


I told y'all Enes aint starting all year and y'all scoffed.


Imaginative that!
Title: Re: Shuffling The Deck Chairs On The Titanic?
Post by: chipstern on October 27, 2018, 01:53:28 AM
Quote from: Kam on October 26, 2018, 11:58:20 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 26, 2018, 06:28:57 PM
Quote from: Jack Straw on October 26, 2018, 06:13:36 PM
This should be Phun to watch...

Ian Begley @IanBegley
Frank Ntilikina, Tim Hardaway Jr., Damyean Dotson, Noah Vonleh and Mitchell Robinson will start against GSW, David Fizdale says.

Well now.  A bold gesture. 

IMAGINATIVE. 


I told y'all Enes aint starting all year and y'all scoffed.


Imaginative that!

(https://media.giphy.com/media/iiS84hOJXh1Pq/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 27, 2018, 04:26:33 AM
Fizz seems both a little more perceptive and sure of himself than our last several coaches.

Hopefully getting Lee and Knox back at some point will give us enough competitors to field a rotation with fewer major holes.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 27, 2018, 06:17:47 AM
What happened was Durant totally went off, outscoring the Knix 25-16 in the 4Q.  He started hitting everything so even tried some 30'+ shots, because hey Curry's allowed to.

It was tricky deciding when to sit Burke and bring Franc back in.  Both played well.  I was thinking maybe pair them for a couple minutes before shuffling Burke out. 

I wouldn't mind a lot of turnovers form a group not accustomed to courttime together.  But Knix were just tossing the ball away carelessly.   Surprisingly, GSW was too the first half which kept things close.

Vonleh and Robinson competed (even if a little overmatched v. GS)
Who coined "Subpar Mario"? (was that Kam's?) Good going -- it's entered my head.  But I want to root for him, so I'm holding back on using it (for now).  The guy really needs to lock in.

Otherwise, it looks like the same old Tim Jr ... just with more minutes and touches.  He's might bomb in some big 3's, make a few drives, maybe add in a nice cut, and then counter all that with some real bad 3's (was it just one airball this game?), chumpy defense (KD treated him like an orange cone a few times), a few unnecessary fouls and turnovers.  He's the definition of streaky.  Never can tell when he'll unleash a few terrific plays or have a boneheaded sequence.

 Making just 31% of his 3's so far.
Going to be a long season if Tim doesn't make some adjustments.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 27, 2018, 07:34:37 AM
L O fucking L
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 27, 2018, 10:34:14 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 27, 2018, 06:17:47 AM

It was tricky deciding when to sit Burke and bring Franc back in.  Both played well.  I was thinking maybe pair them for a couple minutes before shuffling Burke out. 

To me, that wasn't so tricky — especially considering the woeful defensive abilities of the other players on the floor. In his first PG start (it really took this long?) Frank had 17 points in 20 minutes, and was, as always, doing his thing at the other end against the finest offensive squad in the land. Then coach sat him for a full quarter's worth of game time.

From a win-the-game standpoint, bewildering, but that's not so important —yet. Fiz is juggling his priorities and doesn't seem a stupid fellow.

Anyway, this is certainly turning into Kam's dream season. 7% in, and we are currently looking at the #3 pick in the draft with lots of Mitchell Robinson floor-time on tap.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 27, 2018, 11:08:18 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 27, 2018, 07:34:37 AM
L O fucking L

About as good an analysis as Chip writing WRONG vertically in a different color.  Seems you guys got nothing (but faith).

Was just looking at early season +/- and only 6 players in the league below Kanter & Tim's -47.  That's the counter to citing PER.  One of those metrics incorporates Defense. 
Franc is barely above them at -45.
Hezonja next worst Knick with -27
https://www.foxsports.com/nba/stats?season=2018&category=MISC&group=1&sort=12&time=0&pos=0&team=0&qual=1&sortOrder=0&opp=0&page=10
And while it's early days/small sample this year, last season Kanter had the worst Knick +/- many a game. 

Maybe we should run a poll.

Who thinks Tim Hardaway Jr has:
Improved
Stayed the Same
Regressed
become an incredible talent
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 27, 2018, 11:18:20 AM
Melo at -37.
Quote
Switching is especially problematic for forward Carmelo Anthony, as opponents often target the 16-year veteran, trying to get him matched up against their best creators. According to NBA.com's statistics, the Rockets have allowed 116.1 points per 100 possessions with Anthony on the floor, compared to 105.3 points per 100 possessions when he sits.

Now Dantmanbee needs to correct the Rockettes D without Bzdelik and with Melo.  Good luck.
Title: Re: Shuffling The Deck Chairs On The Titanic?
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 27, 2018, 11:50:39 AM
Quote from: chipstern on October 27, 2018, 01:53:28 AM
Quote from: Kam on October 26, 2018, 11:58:20 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 26, 2018, 06:28:57 PM
Quote from: Jack Straw on October 26, 2018, 06:13:36 PM
This should be Phun to watch...

Ian Begley @IanBegley
Frank Ntilikina, Tim Hardaway Jr., Damyean Dotson, Noah Vonleh and Mitchell Robinson will start against GSW, David Fizdale says.

Well now.  A bold gesture. 

IMAGINATIVE. 


I told y'all Enes aint starting all year and y'all scoffed.


Imaginative that!

(https://media.giphy.com/media/iiS84hOJXh1Pq/giphy.gif)

heh

First guy to know Fiz is batshit crazy
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 27, 2018, 11:56:55 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 27, 2018, 06:17:47 AM


 Making just 31% of his 3's so far.
Going to be a long season if Tim doesn't make some adjustments.

THIRTY-SEVEN
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Pharoah on October 27, 2018, 12:09:26 PM
It's strange to see promise in a 28 point loss, but that's about what we got last night. The Knicks youth went neck and neck with the Warriors starting line-up for the better part of 3 quarters and the game only got out of hand in a fourth quarter while the kids were sitting. The bittersweet aspect of this game comes from the fact that the starting line-up didn't get a fair shot to win the game and then Fiz appeared to blame them for the blow out. But that first half of the statement is pretty big. The oldest player in the starting line-up was 26 year old Tim Hardaway and yet they hung with the defending champions to the point of fan frustration that they weren't relied upon sooner to close out that game. Let me admit, I don't think anything was stopping KD in God-mode, but any hope to have stopped his momentum would require the defensive minded kids being back out there. Let's go deeper:

Nickelina (Steph pronunciation): Frank Ntilikina's first start at PG, he had more TO's than Assists (3:2) and Steph Curry dropped 29 points...but he managed to give Knicks fans hope. For one, he put up 17 points on 6/11 from the field with 3 three pointers out of 7. In the first half where he got the bulk of his minutes, he went damn near point for point with Steph and dropped 13. Frank was aggressive as he's been in his career, scoring from three or on drives; catch and shoots or off the dribble. The low assists doesn't do justice to how well the ball moved with his new unit; but the 26 attempts from 3 for the starters is a good indication (38% accuracy on those attempts). Steph put up his numbers, but Frank was actually making him work just to get the ball. We all know how good Steph is, and Frank lost the defensive battle, but his ball denial and hustle were undeniable. Listen...it's this 20 year old kid's first start at PG in his career and we're in a tank season, this one performance where he was arguably our best player for chunks of time is enough to claim that starting spot for a season in my eyes. Let's see what he can become playing the role he was drafted to play. The frustrating bit? A season low in minutes with 26 in a game he'd made his mark on through 3 quarters.

THJ: Tim Hardaway has been pretty much locked in all season, but this was probably his most focused effort so far. He drove more often and limited the long, contested two pointers (they still happened but less often). Timmy also did a bit more creating, with some kickouts available on his drives where he showed faith in his teammates. 9/21 and 4/12 from the three point line for the scorer who dropped 24 points and 4 assists in a tough match-up with Klay. Even his defensive lapses felt less pronounced for much of the game as he thoroughly outplayed a quality two way guy like Thompson.

Dot:  Watching Dotson get his jumpers off even with just a little bit of space and playing with this confidence is a far cry even from his summer league performances. He started this one 0 for 6 but kept shooting and ended on a high note. He's playing at high speeds on both ends and his defense is as much a joy to watch as his shooting form. 5/12 from the field, 2/6 from 3 pumping in 12 points as a sophomore. Dot also led the starters in rebounds with 7. The kid is showing a ton of promise and putting together a nice run of consecutive quality performances.

Vonleh: The Vonleh/Robinson combo front court was surprisingly not too bad for spacing in this one. Vonleh knocking down a open three pointer early may have helped a bit and his ability to dribble the rock definitely helps him out in space. He's not a "force the issue" player which helps out a lot, as he moved the ball and tallied assists throughout the night. Most importantly, he's the dirty work guy. You'll catch him bumping guys and keeping them uncomfortable which works well as Mitch Robinson runs around looking for a shot to challenge. 7 pts, 5 boards, 4 assists and 2 steals off of 2/4 from the field in a relatively short 22 minutes run. He struggled a bit with Green, who was having a rare good shooting night, but Green shooting that well is an anomaly.

Mitch: I've mentioned this a few  times already but stat sheet and technique be damned, you can FEEL Mitch Robinson's presence whenever he's out there. The kid's motor was second to Dotson only last night and he did not back down from the GS trash talkers. He can suffer from being overpowered inside, but any other time he's out there changing shots or decisions from ball handlers. 7 points and 6 boards on 3/5 from the field and the guys that go heavy on tape can correct me if I'm wrong, but at least on first watch it felt like he was setting better screens last night. Now let's talk future, if he's able to co-exist with Vonleh and/or Kanter in effective line-ups than he will ABSOLUTELY co-exist with KP in the future. Let's hope it continues.

Burke: I feel like I'm gonna come across as a hater, but this felt like another one hot quarter performance from Burke while he struggled the rest of the way. It's just a lot easier to give a pass to when he's off the bench commanding touches with a lesser supporting cast that could actually use his attacking style. Burke's third quarter was really impressive and he shot the three ball damn well, but Fiz hung him out to dry by leaving him in the game too long in that fourth. 22 minutes that shoulda been 18 minutes imo; 5/12 shooting and three of the makes were from long range (out of 7). He also added 2 assists and boards without his defensive limitations standing out much, especially promising because he matched up with Steph Curry plenty. I think this is his real role and he can thrive in it, but Fiz has to know when to pull the plug and when to ride the wave. That may take some trial and error.

Mario: Hezonja is frustrating in that he can come out and show so much promise one night and then float through the next. 6 points, 2 assists and 2 boards in 18 minutes on an inefficient 3/9 from the field including 0/4 from three. He just never made his presence really felt, but with a whole new unit around him that may have contributed to the issue. Combine that chemistry shift with the fact that he has a lot of talent means I'll try to stay patient.

Trier: Over 16 minutes, Allonzo Trier got 3 attempts off and made 1 to put up 2 points. I mentioned in the preseason that he and Burke have no chemistry and that continues to be the case. It feels like they're completely redundant since only one guy can take advantage of an isolation at a time. His defense was still active and energetic at least, but the line-up changes may claim him as a casualty.

Lance: Lance managed similar minutes to when he starts, in fact...probably 4 minutes too many. 19 minutes to drop 2 points, 1 assist and 1 board. He was 1/4 and didn't put his stamp on the game defensively either. Probably his worst performance of a season where he has been struggling but at least his intangibles stood out. The intangibles just didn't do their job last night.

Kanter: I saved Kanter for last so I could go on a rant, you're welcome. I honestly really liked a lot of what he did out there. He tried to get in KD's head; managed 13 boards off the bench, 8 points on 4/9 and also had 2 assists though he coupled those with 3 TO's. Kanter got less touches but still made 'em count and did a good job offensively over 20 minutes. But when he gets on the court following Mitch and Vonleh; it's visible...the defensive drop off inside is really, extremely visible. Yet Kanter spent the post game presser with a crappy attitude and an especially bad response about moving to the bench. It's understandable that he's not happy, but making a scene of it in spite of how well the starters is lame. If he wants more minutes, he should focus all of his energy into mastering his positioning on pick and roll defense. Otherwise, he needs to accept that on any decent team he's a bench big that goes in for some post ups and rebounds...that's it.

Kornet: Luke Kornet got two minutes to give us a solid reminder that Allonzo Trier really doesn't need to go to the G-League when his 45 day allowance with the pro team run out.

Fiz: Man, Fizdale managed to win my faith back with his line-up changes and then make me worried with his complete lack of accountability for the blow out fourth quarter. Fiz saw Trey Burke go off in the third and then stuck with the second unit for far too long into the fourth quarter. By the time the kids came back in, the Warriors were on fire and carrying a big lead. The youth had zero chance to break the momentum and the blow out ballooned more. When Fiz got asked about the loss, he alluded to players not believing in themselves or playing for a full 48 minutes. But they didn't play for a full 48 minutes because you benched the guys that got you to the fourth so close buddy. They weren't just loafing when the kids came out in the third quarter, they were fighting. Let's be fair though, the starting line-up took some courage. Kanter's salty presser shows you how delicate these matters are. So props there but also, don't expect the kids to believe in themselves if you don't put faith in them until it's too late...that's not fair...and the shaky finish is on you.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 27, 2018, 12:10:57 PM
Knicks team offense/defensive rating is 104/112

Hardaway Jr is at 109/114

Best on team are:


Vonleh -  139/106

then
Kanter - 119/109
Dotson - 118/109

On the low side

Thomas - 81/112
Hezonja - 83/112
Trier - 90/115
Ntlikina - 96/113
Burke - 100/115

- left out Knox/Kornet/Baker/Robinson - low minutes
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 27, 2018, 12:35:01 PM
Pharoah - appreciate the sum up

But the only guy out there all game and NOT a kid is Lance Thomas.

And.......

a)  Fiz took his timeouts well enough - something I wasnt sure of (at 91-93 down was the first one, then at 8 down)

The "kids" came back in for last six minutes.  We were down EIGHT and lost by TWENTY EIGHT
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 27, 2018, 12:38:42 PM
By the way - it is one game.  I would NOT say Kanter has "moved to the bench".
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 27, 2018, 01:03:56 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 27, 2018, 12:35:01 PM

The "kids" came back in for last six minutes.  We were down EIGHT and lost by TWENTY EIGHT

Oh come on.....the game was done. Knick lead gone. Warriors in full charge mode. Maybe he was playing to other priorities, but clearly Fiz f'd up from any game management standpoint.  This really ain't rocket science sometimes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 27, 2018, 02:19:06 PM
Not disagreeing

At 93-01, down 2, maybe sub there.....

Plan was probably six minute mark and he stayed with it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on October 27, 2018, 03:21:13 PM
why would EK complain ( he didn't ) about the demotion.

he is a smart guy.  he knows his knick days are numbered.

Robinson will be here next year and EK won't be. 

as  the prophet stern says.

"this is what a rebuild looks like"
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 27, 2018, 03:24:56 PM
Kanter thought we was going to get paid off his high volume work as a starter. Now it looks like he has to demonstrate real defensive chops to maintain a significant bench role enough to earn him someone’s MLE. He may not have said what he felt, but his feelings are definitely showing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 27, 2018, 03:58:37 PM
I like this kind of mix and match approach.
Where everybody gets some run, combos explored and such.
Competition.  you suck, you sit
We have a team of role players and backups.  Battle it out.
Let's see who can break out.  Who works together well.

Though the argument against it is that players get unhappy being jerked out of starting roles.  But if we had legit starters, we wouldn't need to explore myriad lineups.  For example, if Kanter wants to start, he needs to play better D.  Simple.  If he can't then he's a borderline player, and Fizz can see what Mitch can do v. starters.  Fizz has also played Kant and Mitch together on a few occasions.

Kant and Hardaway are the closest thing we have to legit starters, and there are a number of unheralded guys trying to catch up to Tim.  Dotson, the man of the moment, playing genuine two-way ball.

And yes, my mistake, Tim is shooting 37% on 3's.  Solid.  League average bumped up to 36% the past couple of years.  A bit frustrating because he could be around 40% if he was just a bit more judicious and didn't go for a couple of adrenaline shots per game.   Tim was around 31% last year on 3's.  And just 41% FG this year.

I'd like to see Franc get the PG start the next dozen plus games.  Burke as sparkplug backup.  And at some point, get Mud some minutes and action, if he earns it in practice.  But I'd really like Franc to get starting reps so when KZ comes back, Franc is ready to run the team.  Our best bet is developing chemistry among Franc - Knox - KZ going forward.  All young pups with skills.  Then whether Tim remains or Dotson is elevated or whatever.  Mix in some MitchRob.  Ditch Kanter.

If Franc falters, then find a PG in the draft. trade, FA.
Franc turning into Charlie Ward is our best chance of rebuilding quickly.  Win 23 games this year, get a Top 5 pick.  Another quality yute and we're on the right path.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on October 27, 2018, 04:12:41 PM
This is a rebuild {tank} season and coach is eyeballing the merchandise?
Title: Pharoah & BoD & Dawg
Post by: chipstern on October 27, 2018, 04:49:33 PM
Interesting posts.

I always look forward to Pharoah's analysis. 

As per criticisms of Fizz's sub moves down the stretch?

A) He is being encouraged to mix and match and see what he has going forward.

B) Message about defense certainly coming through loud and clear, which is why leaving the Burke Crew in too long was something of a tell.

C) But really, he could've had Clyde, Jerry Sloan, Dennis Rodman and Michael Cooper out there, and it is hard to see what difference it would've made.  Kevin Durant was simply Ungodly. 

I am a big Kanter fan, and would love for him to remain a Knick, but considering his cap hold, and that it would take THE FULL MONTY MAX to even get Durant to sniff our shorts, let alone nibble on our ears, well, what is Turkish for best of luck. 

Dotson.  Gobs of upside.  One thing I noticed early on, not to nitpick, is he has work to do regarding CREATING HIS OWN SHOT OFF THE DRIBBLE, which was apparent during his 0-6 opening.  That and the overlooked level of defense GS plays.  But when he gets the ball in rhythm, coming off of picks and screens, YES.  And he plays defense like he means it. 

Trier has come down to Earth, but that's okay.  Many of his turnovers came less from forcing up shots, as CONSCIOUSLY trying to create opportunities for his team mates.  Again, GS defense is not going to allow him to put on a show.  But his faux pas were sins of commission, not him going into heat check mode on every possession. 

My God, was that REALLY Frank's first start?  Impressive. 

Robinson & Vonleh together was very interesting.  Some lunch bucket defense. 

FIZZ?

Again, questions arising as to owning some of his end game decisions?  Fair enough. 

But leave us not dismiss what he got out of our gaggle of role players for three quarters, and how he is clearly getting through to the likes of Timmy and Frank.  Seeing Timmy bark at someone during a game over a defensive assignment or a help.  Priceless. 

He is about creating a culture, and trying to give everyone an honest look and an honest shot. 

But, as Pat Riley once put it: "I know you are ready, but are you PREPARED." 

Fizz is a nurturing presence, but I didn't see his fourth quarter comments as an unwillingness to OWN HIS FAUX PASS, rather, getting his charges to own their performances, and the necessity of not playing three quarters, but all 48. 

Players coming in and out of the starting lineup and rotations? 

Dotson & Robinson buried on the bench at the season's opening, now inserted into starting lineup and looking at real minutes. 

Frank as his leading minutes man at SF and off guard, now getting real run at the point, yet curiously, less cumulative minutes, giving Burke burn off the pine.  Frank and Timmy and Dotson a better match than Burke and Treier and Thomas.  Mudiay will get a long look in the near future.   

Hey, we didn't cave in the third quarter, and that is significant.  However, when the GS run came, my GOD, Durant was like, I don't know George Gervin meets John Havlichek meets Bernard King meets Dirk Nowitzki meets Steph Curry.  DAMN. 

Given that GS can offer Kevin a fifth year and upwards of 40 million per, I don't find the argument that he would want to define his own brand in the Big Apple compelling. 

But who knows. 

Durant and Kawhi are the two most intriguing narratives leading up to the summer swoon of 2019.  And both their respective teams are clicking on all cylinders. 

We shall see. 

Or as the Prophet Nagle puts it, THIS IS WHAT A REBUILD LOOKS LIKE. 

Anyway, Wade's comments on Fizdale's appeal at the very least suggests the door might be slightly ajar for a real free agent to take the bait. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 27, 2018, 05:41:12 PM
Noah Vonleh actually does what Lance Thomas is supposed to be able to do.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on October 27, 2018, 05:48:51 PM
Nagel  not Nagle.

PS

Play Frank at the point and see if he can grow into the position.

if not we are still looking.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 27, 2018, 06:13:01 PM
Quote from: Nagel on October 27, 2018, 05:48:51 PM
Nagel  not Nagle.

PS

Play Frank at the point and see if he can grow into the position.

if not we are still looking.

Bagle

Beguiling
Title: Re: Pharoah & BoD & Dawg
Post by: bodiddley on October 27, 2018, 06:27:52 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 27, 2018, 04:49:33 PM
I am a big Kanter fan, and would love for him to remain a Knick, but considering his cap hold, and that it would take THE FULL MONTY MAX to even get Durant to sniff our shorts, let alone nibble on our ears, well, what is Turkish for best of luck.

Kanter really likes NY, and would be a fine backup C to KZ.  We could always renounce him (freeing up the cap hold), and then see what the market offers.  If he can't find a starting gig, or better than the $8M MLE (someone likely will dangle $10M or $12M, I suspect), we could re-sign him.

I was a harsh Kanter critic.  And his defense is still awfully problematic.  But he works hard, boards and scores inside, seems like a good teammate.  I also like the way he's taken to NYC and stood up to Erdogan at significant personal sacrifice.  He no doubt wants/expects a bigger role than 15-20 minute backup, but the NBA game has changed, making him anachronistic.

Quote
Given that GS can offer Kevin a fifth year and upwards of 40 million per, I don't find the argument that he would want to define his own brand in the Big Apple compelling. 

I really doubt KD would bail on a dynasty.
But I believe he's one of 3 players who make more in endorsements than NBA salary.  And he could count on likely an extra few $M off-court per year if he was in NY, up to an extra $10M if NYK actually won or became a true contender.

I think it's unlikely, but if you figure he'll get at least $20M that 5th year on a new contract.  Then he'd only need to make up $5M per year in extra endorsements over 5 years to get to the equivalent of $45M that 5th year.  Durant in NY would be a big deal and advertisers would jump on the bandwagon.

If KZ comes back healthy, Knox has a strong year and the Knix seem able to sort out the PG situation, we get a high draft pick, Knix might have a slight chance of landing KD. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 27, 2018, 07:12:04 PM
Brook Lopez for 3 mil or Ekant for 18?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 27, 2018, 08:06:12 PM
Looking like Ainge may have to cash in his prime draft pick mid season

Just not the same C's.  Not sure Hayward will be any help til next year, if that
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 27, 2018, 08:16:16 PM
LON-ZO!

https://twitter.com/LakersNation/status/1056335990585987072 (https://twitter.com/LakersNation/status/1056335990585987072)
Title: Re: Pharoah & BoD & Dawg
Post by: chipstern on October 27, 2018, 08:43:26 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 27, 2018, 06:27:52 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 27, 2018, 04:49:33 PM
I am a big Kanter fan, and would love for him to remain a Knick, but considering his cap hold, and that it would take THE FULL MONTY MAX to even get Durant to sniff our shorts, let alone nibble on our ears, well, what is Turkish for best of luck.

Kanter really likes NY, and would be a fine backup C to KZ.  We could always renounce him (freeing up the cap hold), and then see what the market offers.  If he can't find a starting gig, or better than the $8M MLE (someone likely will dangle $10M or $12M, I suspect), we could re-sign him.

I was a harsh Kanter critic.  And his defense is still awfully problematic.  But he works hard, boards and scores inside, seems like a good teammate.  I also like the way he's taken to NYC and stood up to Erdogan at significant personal sacrifice.  He no doubt wants/expects a bigger role than 15-20 minute backup, but the NBA game has changed, making him anachronistic.

Quote
Given that GS can offer Kevin a fifth year and upwards of 40 million per, I don't find the argument that he would want to define his own brand in the Big Apple compelling. 

I really doubt KD would bail on a dynasty.
But I believe he's one of 3 players who make more in endorsements than NBA salary.  And he could count on likely an extra few $M off-court per year if he was in NY, up to an extra $10M if NYK actually won or became a true contender.

I think it's unlikely, but if you figure he'll get at least $20M that 5th year on a new contract.  Then he'd only need to make up $5M per year in extra endorsements over 5 years to get to the equivalent of $45M that 5th year.  Durant in NY would be a big deal and advertisers would jump on the bandwagon.

If KZ comes back healthy, Knox has a strong year and the Knix seem able to sort out the PG situation, we get a high draft pick, Knix might have a slight chance of landing KD.

Agreed and agreed. 

I really dig Enes.  A good cat.  Fizz has thrown down the gauntlet to him.  Be interesting to see how he responds.  Is indeed anachronistic. 

As for Kevin, well, think he was inspired to put on a show?  I'm trying to remember?  Didn't Kobe light us up for 60-80 points one night. 

GS is dynasty, and a template for championship ball these next five years.  Kevin might very well be taken by the big stage, and I found his comments about how MSG reminded him of playing at Rucker Park, only on the inside, intriguing.  But the notion that GS is Curry's team, and KD wants a team OF HIS OWN? 

A little thin. 

But for once in our existence, even though both are EXTREME LONG SHOTS, we will have the cap space and potential core of youth, to attract, least ways, make a pitch, to the two premiere game changers in the coming summer of free agency: Kevin Durant and Kawhi Leonard.  And unlike our pathetic pursuit of LeBron and Bosh during the Donnie Dullard Epoch, we don't have to gut our team to make a pitch and open up cap space. 

We shall see.  The notion of a KP-Knox-Durant front court doth give one pause. 

Meanwhile, a lot of interesting narratives and sub-texts amidst a sea of reclamation projects. 
Title: Pharoah
Post by: chipstern on October 27, 2018, 09:08:36 PM
Mario: Hezonja is frustrating in that he can come out and show so much promise one night and then float through the next. 6 points, 2 assists and 2 boards in 18 minutes on an inefficient 3/9 from the field including 0/4 from three. He just never made his presence really felt, but with a whole new unit around him that may have contributed to the issue. Combine that chemistry shift with the fact that he has a lot of talent means I'll try to stay patient.

Ditto Mudiay. 

I must confess to having a rooting interest in both.  The flashes of sheer talent both Hezonja and Mudiay flash remain tantalizing.  And Fizz seems committed to pushing their buttons. 

Reminds me about that scene in SEABISCUIT where the trainer is commenting about how they have their thoroughbred all confused, and how he's forgotten how to be a horse.   

Meanwhile...you could see Dotson coming on strong the last month of the 2017-2018 season, and have been impressed as how he remained focused and READY at the deep end of the bench when Fizz called his number. 

And Vonleh? Who knew. Love his motor, his intensity and his athleticism.  Not the most skilled motherfucker, but has been playing within himself.  Takes the sting off of losing O'Quinn, and what...O'Quinn turned 28 this past March, while Vonleh turned 23 in August.  Most significant takeaway compared to his previous stints?  Roughly 8 boards and 2 assists per 18 minutes.  Nice.
Title: Free Wily
Post by: chipstern on October 27, 2018, 10:54:50 PM
Been checking in on Hornets box scores. 

Wily has been getting very little burn. 

Malik Monk, 1-for-8 tonight. 

Glad we passed and took Frank. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 28, 2018, 12:24:12 AM
Monk was pretty good his first 6 games.  Playing bigger minutes at age 20.  14 3s made.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 28, 2018, 04:03:21 AM
Not a Monk fan. His FG% is basically the same as his 3pt% (37%), which was also true his rook year.  Not my kind of player.  Has a lot to work on.

Kemba has been playing his ass off.
His 3's weren't falling on a B2B, but did counter with 14 FT's.

Saw BOS-DET.
Pistons took the first bad shot available.  Showed no patience on O, forced shots.  Celts D was good. they really smothered Blake, sometimes triple teaming him on drives.  Bulldog Drummond got hit with 2 cheapie fouls and never really got going.  RegJax was MIA.

Must admit, StanJohnson got me excited again.  He was dynamite on early offense attacks.  Popped in 3 treys (on too many attempts --8).
And relished D-ing up Tatum (2-9; 6 Pts).  Still has much to learn/improve, but just 22.

DET had been 4-0.  But besides beating PHI by 1 Pt when Blake scored 50, their 3 other wins were against 3 of the East expected lotto teams.

Saw a sloppy POR-UTA game a few days ago.  Jazz ran handoffs every other play.  Never saw a team so reliant on that.  With the freedom of movement emphasis, and guys getting foul calls when a player goes over the screen and they just stop, handoffs seem more common in the NBA this year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 28, 2018, 12:00:54 PM
Quote
Cavaliers fire coach Tyronn Lue after 0-6 start.

They can't figure out what's missing ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 28, 2018, 01:12:40 PM
Usually when the coach leaves the assistant goes with him.

Lue didnt go to LA....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 28, 2018, 01:37:46 PM
Good effort by LAL last night vs Spurs

LBJ had a three to tie at :05

Not the best of games for Lonzo - but did fine in the 4th quarter run, playing some with Rondo.
Title: Spurs
Post by: chipstern on October 28, 2018, 02:05:29 PM
Demar Derozan a man on a mission. 

In 39 minutes:

14-23 [NO TREYS], 30 points
12 rebounds
8 assists
2 steals

So far he is averaging 27.2 ppg, 6.0 rebounds, 7.8 assists, 1.0 steal

Is it worth mentioning that Donnie Duh picked Jordan Hill ahead of DD?

Nah, just let it go, Chip, let it go. 



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 28, 2018, 02:10:39 PM
Jordan Hill, the only guy who didn't look good in his own college highlight reel.  He was just longer than everybody, but awkward and didn't show any feel for the game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 28, 2018, 02:36:59 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 28, 2018, 02:10:39 PM
Jordan Hill, the only guy who didn't look good in his own college highlight reel.  He was just longer than everybody, but awkward and didn't show any feel for the game.

SIGH

7) Steph Curry

8) Jordan Hill

9) Demar Derozan

"To be a Knicks fan is to suffer..."

PS: #29, Toney Douglas, #55, Patty Mills

PPS: Oh, well...

(http://78.media.tumblr.com/bb5621b3551bbd467f98113c3c419415/tumblr_mrotejjgFj1rp2lbpo1_500.gif)

PPPS: Jordan Hill in the pre-draft workouts that sealed the deal for Donnie Duh

(https://66.media.tumblr.com/6b79280cfe0eddb650deb1d36c799a8a/tumblr_om9jifwwRD1s8gtxto1_400.gif)
Title: Telegram For Mongo
Post by: chipstern on October 28, 2018, 03:35:09 PM
Stefan Bondy: “Y’all coming off these screens bullshitting and lollygagging.” — Rasheed Wallace to the Knicks big men.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 28, 2018, 04:03:58 PM
You lollygag here

You lollygag there

What does that make you????



LOLLYGAGGERS.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 28, 2018, 04:19:12 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 28, 2018, 02:36:59 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 28, 2018, 02:10:39 PM
Jordan Hill, the only guy who didn't look good in his own college highlight reel.  He was just longer than everybody, but awkward and didn't show any feel for the game.

SIGH

7) Steph Curry

8) Jordan Hill

9) Demar Derozan

"To be a Knicks fan is to suffer..."

PS: #29, Toney Douglas, #55, Patty Mills





J could play

and we needed a big
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 28, 2018, 04:38:32 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 28, 2018, 04:19:12 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 28, 2018, 02:36:59 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 28, 2018, 02:10:39 PM
Jordan Hill, the only guy who didn't look good in his own college highlight reel.  He was just longer than everybody, but awkward and didn't show any feel for the game.

SIGH

7) Steph Curry

8) Jordan Hill

9) Demar Derozan

"To be a Knicks fan is to suffer..."

PS: #29, Toney Douglas, #55, Patty Mills






J could play

and we needed a big

Knowing that any mention of washout Jordan Hill will elicit the same predictable

bullshit...Bullshit...BULLSHIT.

Every time you take the bait and advance this stubborn, specious crap you evince ZERO CREDIBILITY.

PS: We needed A POINT...dimwit.   
Title: Rasheed Schooling Enes At Knicks Practice
Post by: chipstern on October 28, 2018, 04:45:05 PM
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/zaXkDQJag9A/hqdefault.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on October 28, 2018, 04:49:49 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 27, 2018, 08:06:12 PM
Looking like Ainge may have to cash in his prime draft pick mid season

Just not the same C's.  Not sure Hayward will be any help til next year, if that

Which pick and who's Ainge going to have to trade for?

Unless there's something huge (AD) out there can't see Celt's doing anything other than maybe trading Rozier near the dead-line for a future #1.

Gordo is still on restricted PT, and is coming around, looking better.

Celts started slowly, couldn't shoot for shit, but the D is there, they'll be fine.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 28, 2018, 05:00:29 PM
I’m more concerned with what Vonleh and Robinson can pick up from Wallace.

I do like that Fizz is willing to incorporate the voices outside of his staff to build up the players.

I also like that identification of a weakness didn’t just lead to lineup change. Instead of letting the demoted player drift toward the end of the bench, the organization is putting energy into refocusing and improving the player which gives the guy a clear path to stay a healthy part of the locker room and become a more useful piece in the rotation as well as a more valuable player over the remainder of his career.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 28, 2018, 05:42:49 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on October 28, 2018, 04:49:49 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 27, 2018, 08:06:12 PM
Looking like Ainge may have to cash in his prime draft pick mid season

Just not the same C's.  Not sure Hayward will be any help til next year, if that

Which pick and who's Ainge going to have to trade for?

Unless there's something huge (AD) out there can't see Celt's doing anything other than maybe trading Rozier near the dead-line for a future #1.

Gordo is still on restricted PT, and is coming around, looking better.

Celts started slowly, couldn't shoot for shit, but the D is there, they'll be fine.

The Knicks would like to think that when Trey Burke grows up he might be Terry Rozier. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 28, 2018, 06:18:24 PM
Knicks, I assume with Dantoni's blessing, had just dealt Z Bo for Mobley and T Thomas.  Had Galinari.  Had Lee.
 Needed a big.

Points?  Nate Robinson was coming off a fine season.  As was Chris Duhon.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 28, 2018, 06:20:54 PM
Who did we trade Lee for again?

Good God man - there were more problems than having drafted Jordan Hill.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 28, 2018, 06:29:55 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 28, 2018, 06:18:24 PM
Knicks, I assume with Dantoni's blessing, had just dealt Z Bo for Mobley and T Thomas.  Had Galinari.  Had Lee.
 Needed a big.

Points?  Nate Robinson was coming off a fine season.  As was Chris Duhon.

Verily, you are the King Of Comedy.

Knicks had a winning record when they traded ZBo. 

It was all about gutting the roster in pursuit of LeBron. 

With Mikey's blessings? 

HAHAHA. 

He was counting on Steph.  His new Nash. 

Instead he got a can of Spam. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 28, 2018, 06:41:16 PM
Which pick?

heh - funny.

Only one that has been seen as PRIMO from the getgo.

Remember?  The windfall - the EXTRA from getting the BETTER Tatum in the Philly deal?

(Sac is 3-3.  We will keep you posted.  Go, Vlade!)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on October 28, 2018, 06:59:29 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 28, 2018, 06:41:16 PM
Which pick?

heh - funny.

Only one that has been seen as PRIMO from the getgo.

Remember?  The windfall - the EXTRA from getting the BETTER Tatum in the Philly deal?

(Sac is 3-3.  We will keep you posted.  Go, Vlade!)

I'm well aware of the picks that the Celts have, and will track them as the season progresses, but I wanted to know what player you envisioned the Celts needed to trade for by the trading deadline.

My perspective is they have sufficient depth, maybe too much, (which may free up Rozier as a possble mid-year trade) so I'm curious if you have anything concrete to support your hot take.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 28, 2018, 07:50:05 PM
25-6-6  for Russell (5 to)

Coming along just fine, son.
Title: Who the Celts need ...
Post by: carlos123 on October 28, 2018, 07:54:18 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on October 28, 2018, 06:59:29 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 28, 2018, 06:41:16 PM
Which pick?

heh - funny.

Only one that has been seen as PRIMO from the getgo.

Remember?  The windfall - the EXTRA from getting the BETTER Tatum in the Philly deal?

(Sac is 3-3.  We will keep you posted.  Go, Vlade!)

I'm well aware of the picks that the Celts have, and will track them as the season progresses, but I wanted to know what player you envisioned the Celts needed to trade for by the trading deadline.

My perspective is they have sufficient depth, maybe too much, (which may free up Rozier as a possble mid-year trade) so I'm curious if you have anything concrete to support your hot take.

(http://tucmag.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/lavar-lonzo-liangelo-lamelo-ball-march-2017_orig.png)

Anyone on the photo, per Chico Cartero
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 28, 2018, 08:31:45 PM
Poor Gelo

Really the runt, isnt he?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 28, 2018, 09:39:22 PM
Weird game today for D Mitchell

0 free throw attempts - scores 20 but had just 1 rebound with 5 turnovers vs his 4 assists

Doncic also continues to turn it over (5 x today) - had a line of 14-6-5 on 5/13

HUGE game in losing effort for D'Andre.  Just 5 shots, gets 12-19 and dishes 9 assists
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 28, 2018, 10:31:47 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 28, 2018, 06:29:55 PM

Knicks had a winning record when they traded ZBo. 


What was it.... 9-6?  9-7?

Knicks had a winning record this year too. 

And the last two seasons 16-13.

Proves what?
Title: Knicks and Giants
Post by: Kam on October 28, 2018, 10:34:32 PM
I'm a fan of both teams.

two wins between them in a dozen games or so.

sigh.

at least the yankees seem poised to win the offseason
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 28, 2018, 10:38:22 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 28, 2018, 10:31:47 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 28, 2018, 06:29:55 PM

Knicks had a winning record when they traded ZBo. 


What was it.... 9-6?  9-7?

Knicks had a winning record this year too. 

And the last two seasons 16-13.

Proves what?

heh

Who knows what the fuck he meant.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 28, 2018, 11:18:59 PM
Robinson
Vonleh (til KP is ready)
Dotson  (til Knox is ready)
Junior
Frank

EKant/Kornet
Mario/Lance
Burke/Etc

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 29, 2018, 12:08:46 AM
I like what Fizdale is doing.

Ekant wanted to be an All Star on a 20 win team.
Not worth it.
So we move on to true commitment to YOUTH DEVELOPMENT and TEAM DEFENSE
Worth it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 29, 2018, 12:10:21 AM
Fizdale is smart doing it now rather than giving the team another 30 games of no-future ball.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 29, 2018, 05:10:31 AM
Has been a rocky start for Donovan.
Ups and Downs.
Utah has a strong starting 5, a good 6th man, and needs another 2 bench guys to step up.
Exum is very quick but can't make a layup and can't shoot.
Was very surprised they coughed up $9M per for him (4 year deal).
Burks is streaky.  Royce is a hustle guy.  Enough?

Doncic is doing better than I expected.  Turnovers are high, but he's 19 and playing 35 mins a night.  He had a lot of recklessness to his game and unnecessary pizzazz.  I thought he'd be high turnover and shooting poor on 3's.  If the only major flaw so far is high TO's, not a worry, they can work that out later.  He's transitioned pretty well so far.

Wiz are 1-5.  Their one win by 1 pt.  Hasn't been an easy schedule.
Teams get much easier for the next 3 weeks.  8 of first 12 on the Road isn't fun.  WAS has been underperforming the past few years. Starting Mahinmi, adding Dwight and Awful Rivers aren't improvements.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 29, 2018, 08:06:43 AM
Quote from: Kam on October 29, 2018, 12:08:46 AM
I like what Fizdale is doing.

Ekant wanted to be an All Star on a 20 win team.
Not worth it.
So we move on to true commitment to YOUTH DEVELOPMENT and TEAM DEFENSE
Worth it.

So, you think it wasnt just about facing Golden State?

You dont think Kanter is back starting next game?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 29, 2018, 08:11:50 AM
That takes care of Whipping Boy 1

Now, on to #2

https://twitter.com/SBondyNYDN/status/1056672880023519232 (https://twitter.com/SBondyNYDN/status/1056672880023519232)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 29, 2018, 08:34:46 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 29, 2018, 05:10:31 AM
Has been a rocky start for Donovan.
Ups and Downs.
Utah has a strong starting 5, a good 6th man, and needs another 2 bench guys to step up.
Exum is very quick but can't make a layup and can't shoot.
Was very surprised they coughed up $9M per for him (4 year deal).
Burks is streaky.  Royce is a hustle guy.  Enough?

Doncic is doing better than I expected.  Turnovers are high, but he's 19 and playing 35 mins a night.  He had a lot of recklessness to his game and unnecessary pizzazz.  I thought he'd be high turnover and shooting poor on 3's.  If the only major flaw so far is high TO's, not a worry, they can work that out later.  He's transitioned pretty well so far.

Wiz are 1-5.  Their one win by 1 pt.  Hasn't been an easy schedule.
Teams get much easier for the next 3 weeks.  8 of first 12 on the Road isn't fun.  WAS has been underperforming the past few years. Starting Mahinmi, adding Dwight and Awful Rivers aren't improvements.

Exum is a "great tools, cant pass him up" re-sign.  Had to do it.

I remind you of his profile when entering the league

Strengths: The 18-year-old Aussie is a fluid and versatile athlete, who shows a great deal of potential … Good size for a guard, and should fill out nicely over time … Excels at getting to the basket and drawing fouls … Finishes through contact and can score with either hand … Excellent body control allows him to make very acrobatic shots at the rim … Opposing defenders are constantly off-balance due to his effective hesitation moves and explosive first step … Moves well without the ball – makes good use of screens and does it at a relatively high rate of speed … Can create scoring opportunities for both himself and his teammates … Just scratching the surface in certain areas of his game – effective at making floaters, shooting off the step-back and posting up, but does not use these skills very often … Improving as an outside shooter – smooth and elevates well off the dribble … Very versatile – used at the 1, 2, and 3 spots … An active and alert team defender – his length and speed allows him to cover a lot of ground … Comes up with a lot of steals and loose balls … Does a little bit of everything, and is willing to do whatever is needed to win, including setting screens and mixing it up in the paint … A good kid – is coachable, affable, grounded, humble, and intelligent ...


Re:  A Rivers

Did you hear Clippers played him a video tribute on his return?

I kid you not.

I am still bullish on him as a decent energy packed combo guard.  May  be a bit of a prick (seems the rep he has) but time to mature, like everyone.

Dwight?  Nah - lets not go down that road today.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 29, 2018, 10:24:36 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 29, 2018, 08:11:50 AM
That takes care of Whipping Boy 1

Now, on to #2

https://twitter.com/SBondyNYDN/status/1056672880023519232 (https://twitter.com/SBondyNYDN/status/1056672880023519232)


Emmanuel Mudiay is probable for tomorrow’s game against the Nets. David Fizdale believes Mudiay is the best passer on the team and will eventually give him a chance to start at point guard, just not yet after missing opening six games of season with a sprained ankle.

But why tho?

Frank just had his first ever start at PG...

ARE WE GOING TO KILL HIS CONFIDENCE AGAIN BY YANKING HIM????
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 29, 2018, 10:26:16 AM
I would think Mudiay would replace Dotson

Would MITCH play with Kanter is the more interesting question

Mudiay-Ntlikina-Hardaway-Kanter-Robinson
Title: Kanter talks too much
Post by: Kam on October 29, 2018, 10:29:32 AM
"my thing is I’m trying to make the All-Star [team] this year."

Umm. No.  Bad Enes. 

Individual
Team 


or



Team
Individual


The individual must be subservient to the team.
Title: Enes talks too much two
Post by: Kam on October 29, 2018, 10:31:40 AM
He "want to retire a knick"

OK.  So retire.


Or say you will sign for the minimum.

No matter what your ass is getting renounced.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 29, 2018, 10:50:50 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 29, 2018, 08:06:43 AM
Quote from: Kam on October 29, 2018, 12:08:46 AM
I like what Fizdale is doing.

Ekant wanted to be an All Star on a 20 win team.
Not worth it.
So we move on to true commitment to YOUTH DEVELOPMENT and TEAM DEFENSE
Worth it.

So, you think it wasnt just about facing Golden State?

You dont think Kanter is back starting next game?

I'm pretty sure he didn't "bruise the egos" of the guys he benched for a one game experiment just to put some or all of them back in.  I want to see them get more of a chance to show what they got than one game against the Champs.   I mean can the Knicks show some faith in Frank?  Perry loved Mudiay because Larry Brown loved him.  Everyone wants to piss on Phil Jackson.

KP
Frank
Dotson


Phil did some good.  Perry is hell-bent to undo.
Title: Re: Kanter talks too much
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 29, 2018, 10:55:25 AM
Quote from: Kam on October 29, 2018, 10:29:32 AM
"my thing is I’m trying to make the All-Star [team] this year."

Umm. No.  Bad Enes. 

Individual
Team 


or



Team
Individual


The individual must be subservient to the team.

There is zero doubt in my mind that I will be able to make a good case for Kanter being on the team, vs one of the players named.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on October 29, 2018, 01:40:29 PM
Dayum I was in exile and couldn't log in for weeks although I read all the comments.  Now why couldn't this veteran get in our elite club.  Where is the manager.....
Title: Re: Kanter talks too much
Post by: Kam on October 29, 2018, 03:04:17 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 29, 2018, 10:55:25 AM
Quote from: Kam on October 29, 2018, 10:29:32 AM
"my thing is I’m trying to make the All-Star [team] this year."

Umm. No.  Bad Enes. 

Individual
Team 


or



Team
Individual


The individual must be subservient to the team.

There is zero doubt in my mind that I will be able to make a good case for Kanter being on the team, vs one of the players named.

Kanter can be on the team if he signs for none of our cap space.  I have no problem with that. 

How much does he expect another team to pay him?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 29, 2018, 03:14:03 PM
Brook Lopez is a year older than Enes Kanter.

He went from 21mi a year for three years l to 3.8mil this season only.

If Kanter is also willing to take that kind of haircut to remain where he claims to want to be... GREAT!
Title: Same starting lineup
Post by: Kam on October 29, 2018, 07:27:14 PM
Frank at PG again.
Title: Bench looks nice
Post by: Kam on October 29, 2018, 08:13:13 PM
I have a deeper appreciation for Enes, Trey, and Lance off the bench.   Role players in their right roles look best.
Title: Nets must not be that good
Post by: Kam on October 29, 2018, 08:27:10 PM
Cuz they're making us look good.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 29, 2018, 08:30:01 PM
I forgot Nets had Napier.
he's similar to Burke -- quick, good finisher, good shooter, poor defender.  Just a 2/$4M deal.  POR also cheaped out by letting Ed Davis go for just $4.5M.  BAd for Blazers, good for BKY.
Title: Unforced errors
Post by: Kam on October 29, 2018, 08:44:20 PM
Ekant throwing the ball away  trying to play PG
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 29, 2018, 08:45:23 PM
Looking at THJ's first half statline -

"Ya know.....but he didnt rebouind..."

heh
Title: Love that Vonleh/Robinson
Post by: Kam on October 29, 2018, 09:21:19 PM
Good together. Good as a platoon.  KP must be salivating.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 29, 2018, 09:50:46 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 29, 2018, 08:45:23 PM
Looking at THJ's first half statline -

"Ya know.....but he didnt rebouind..."

heh


Rebounded and Assisted well tonight.

Junior might just top out as a 42% SHOOTER though.

If he can up that to 46% overall we have a steal at 17mil
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 29, 2018, 10:03:50 PM
8 assists for Tim.

Tangelo, 8 early points then disappeared.
LaVert MIA.

B2B for BKY.
Were real sluggish most of the 3Q.

So far Knix have only beat ATL & BKY.
But have competed most games.

I like this new starting lineup.
4 defenders and Tim.
Young and bouncy.
Title: Damn!
Post by: carlos123 on October 29, 2018, 10:25:59 PM
There goes my tank!

Enjoyed watching it blow up though.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on October 29, 2018, 10:28:55 PM
The idea to move Enes was to build up the second unit, methinks. It did work with a 15-15 in 25 min.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 29, 2018, 11:00:14 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 29, 2018, 10:03:50 PM


I like this new starting lineup.
4 defenders and Tim.
Young and bouncy.

Yasss Kween!

Frank the PG.

We could've been had seen this all last season.

All those minutes that went to developing Moodyguy and Burkino Fatso were wasted.
Title: HELP !
Post by: carlos123 on October 30, 2018, 12:29:20 AM
Kam, I usually like what u write, but I’m beginning to have trouble understanding you.

What’s it mean “Yasss Kween”?

Who’s Burkina Fatso? I mean Burke ain’t fat, is he?
Title: Re: HELP !
Post by: bodiddley on October 30, 2018, 12:32:36 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on October 30, 2018, 12:29:20 AM
Who’s Burkina Fatso? I mean Burke ain’t fat, is he?

He is a little around his upper volta ....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 30, 2018, 12:34:14 AM
Quote from: Kam on October 29, 2018, 11:00:14 PM
All those minutes that went to developing Moodyguy and Burkino Fatso were wasted.

I assume Burkino Fatso = Burke and Fatso = Burke & Jack.

Is Jack still in the League this year?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 30, 2018, 03:36:15 AM
I think Burke has been developed in a solid backup guard. It’s a very good role for his talent and he should be able to hold it down and help the team in the process. Trier and all three starting guards are better players, but as that next guy, Burke’s not bad.

I doubt Mudiay will prove to be as good as Burke. I know Baker won’t.

Hustling Kanter is a huge weapon off the bench.

I hope this starting lineup continues to play its way into keeping all their jobs for a while.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 30, 2018, 07:00:59 AM
Knicks sched

Every other night now

Pacers (tomorrow)
Mavs
Wizards
Bulls
Hawks

Just 2 at home.

Then we get 2 days off and are at Toronto.

Title: Re: Bench looks nice
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 30, 2018, 08:34:50 AM
Quote from: Kam on October 29, 2018, 08:13:13 PM
I have a deeper appreciation for Enes, Trey, and Lance off the bench.   Role players in their right roles look best.

attaboy....
Title: Re: HELP !
Post by: Kam on October 30, 2018, 10:08:59 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on October 30, 2018, 12:29:20 AM
Kam, I usually like what u write, but I’m beginning to have trouble understanding you.

What’s it mean “Yasss Kween”?

Who’s Burkina Fatso? I mean Burke ain’t fat, is he?

Yas Queen = You go! or Good for you!

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/e4184b6ea44f18af834ccdf8fe548ec7/tenor.gif?itemid=11682301)

Burkino Fatso :) just for fun
Title: The Top 40 scoring performances in NBA History
Post by: Kam on October 30, 2018, 12:08:39 PM
Wilt has 23 games with 62 or more points.
The other 17 are below.
Who is Joe Fulks?

81 Kobe
73 David Thompson
71 Baylor
71 David Robinson
70 Devin Booker
69 Jordan
68 Pete Maravich
65 Kobe
64 Baylor
64 Rick Barry
64 Jordan
63 Jerry West
63 Baylor
63 Joe Fulks
62 Carmelo Anthony
62 Tracy MacGrady
62 Kobe


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on October 30, 2018, 12:20:37 PM
He was the first great BAA/NBA scorer.  He was also shot and killed by his girlfriend's son. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Pharoah on October 30, 2018, 12:23:03 PM
In a season that's less about wins and losses, last night's result wasn't nearly as important as the developments we were seeing on the court. It was like a series of visual affirmations as young up and coming players took turns giving the Knicks fanbase exactly what it's been asking for. Frank attacking the lane and looking for his shot? Check. Mitch turning defense and rebounding efforts into easy points? Yessir. Tim Hardaway making the extra pass instead of settling for contested jumpers? GTFOH, but yes it happened! Kevin Knox practicing jumpers in the pregame without the ankle showing issue? Even that! The Knicks took a tired Nets team and essentially pitched a shutout, holding Brooklyn under 30 points in each quarter. There were visible miscommunications on defense but hustle and effort help make up the difference in chemistry. Offensively, the Knicks are still very much a work in progress, but the moments of stagnation felt fewer and farther between. The beauty of all this positive energy is that it comes immediately after a shift to youth. Fiz made his rotation changes with an eye on the future, but improved the Knicks in the present by doing so.

Frank: Frank Ntilikina pulled threes and attacked the rim repeatedly in the first quarter, then shifted his focus to finding the roll man when he attacked through screens. That ability to demand defensive attention and then find the open man is foundational for a 20 year old PG in his first few starts as the ball handler. 16 points, 4 assists, 5 rebounds and a block from Frank who was every bit the defensive presence that his reputation portends. Efficiency wasn't great here; he shot 5/13 from the field, but he also tallied 3/5 from three point land (he's made 8 of 15 in his last three games) and got to the line three times. Drilling three pointers has opened up more opportunities to attack the lane and Frank has shown the aggression to finish or get the assist. He just looks so much more comfortable right now that it's easy to forget how few opportunities he's truly had through this point. I won't go too hard on the defensive aspects of his game except to say that he is the rare player that's actually fun to watch defend. His ball denial had Shabazz Napier looking salty before an inbounds play late and that ball hawking physicality gets hidden by Frank's unassuming nature overall.

Tim Hardaway Jr: Gonna drop the full name for this one, because Tim gave us everything that we could ask for. After giving up the game winner to Levert last time out, Tim Hardaway had every reason to come out even more fired up than usual. That could easily have meant pressing and showing teammates up like in Miami, but it didn't. Timmy made the extra pass early and often, opening up better opportunities and making him that much more challenging to guard. 25 points, 8 assists and 5 rebounds came from 8/19 shooting and 3/8 from the three point line for Timmy. When THJ is moving the ball freely and selective with his shots, he is a handful. His ability to attack a pick and roll is unlocked when he's unpredictable as opposed to being determined to get his own shot off. Defensively, Tim is going to make some mistakes but he was solid with a standout moment putting his body on the line to take a charge that left him bleeding on the court. There was one more moment of calling out a teammate for defensive miscommunications visibly, but overall Tim's leadership was at it's best last night. If Fiz can tap into that version of THJ, the sky is the limit. 8 assists just from being more thoughtful with his actions...there's plenty untapped in this guy.

Dot: I know pointing to the single night +/- is a no-no, but given his somewhat pedestrian boxscore his team leading +21 is worthy of mention. 4/10 from the field and a tough 1/6 from three; but Dotson tallied 10 points and 5 rebounds in 28 minutes where his impact meant more than those numbers. That's because he continues to be a rabid defender, hard cutter and willing passer out there. Dotson's willingness to pull the jumper commands attention and helps spacing even when it isn't falling. On those poor shooting nights, he'll get you back possessions with some nice rebounds and defensive stands. This is a sophomore that barely got opportunities last season but has flashed quality shooting and scoring abilities, including some jumpers off the dribble last night. I'll be excited to see how he looks in February as the reps are piling up and this team gets more comfortable.

Vonleh: With all the young scorers that needs reps to figure things out; Noah Vonleh is a perfect complimentary player. Last night he logged another 10 boards and put up 8 points on 3/6 from the field while also contributing 2 assists, 1 block and 1 steal. This is a player that doesn't need the ball to be productive or helpful to his teammates. Last night we saw Vonleh's freakish athleticism in a dunk on Jarrett Allen and also some of his ball handling as he took the ball up court himself twice in the first quarter (once he turned it over to be fair). There's a versatility to Vonleh's game that allows him to play with a Center or to play as a center and at just 23 years old, he's got room for growth. This may be the most pleasant surprise of the early season because I don't think anyone expected Vonleh to break into a starting role and actually produce from there.

Mitch: The season began with discussions about whether Mitch was ready for the NBA or if he'd be forced to get his reps in at the G-League level. That conversation might not have been necessary at all. Mitch contributed 11 points on 5/5 from the field; 3 rebounds, an assist, a block and a steal that he took coast to coast for an incredible dunk...all in just 15 minutes. The talk about his impact at a pro level comes down to Mitch being pretty skinny and still having plenty of fundamentals to work on, those are still notable issues. But if you can see him struggling with the technical aspects, you certainly aren't missing the motor and athleticism allowing him to make up for deficiencies. Robinson didn't get a freshman year in college to learn, he's rocking against quality big men any way. I want to see that 15 minutes bumped to 20 minutes or more very soon. That might be the point where Mitchell Robinson's flaws outweigh his contributions, but I'm ready to find out .

Enes Kanter: For as frustrating as his post game behavior was with Golden State, Enes Kanter has responded to coming off the bench with back to back strong performances. The PnR deficiency is likely a permanent issue but I did note him showing against the ball handler a lot stronger in the second quarter and sprinting back to his man as well. Offensively Kanter was every bit the handful that he always is, punishing the Nets on the boards and acting as a great escape hatch for the offense if it couldn't get motion working. 15 points, 15 boards and 2 assists in 26 minutes. Now there are two negatives that I have to address from the performance. The first is Kanter's 6 TO's, many of which came from miscommunications with the second unit. I don't want Kanter to be discouraged from passing, but you could tell that he wasn't on the same page as some teammates. I actually think he can develop rapport with a cutter like Hezonja in due time. On the other hand, the fourth quarter Nets run did appear to come with him slowing down from the second quarter efforts on defense. If he can only sprint for 20 minutes, I respect that and think that's all he should get. 4 or 5 extra minutes out there in the second half were probably the difference between a completely glowing review and this downer note at the end.

Mario: There was a moment in the game where Joe Harris drove at Mario Hezonja and dropped a real pretty floater in his grill. You could see Hezonja side-eyeing Harris and on the next play, he got the ball and drove for an even prettier finger roll. It was a boss moment from Super Mario, "oh you thought that was nice?" He then took it a step too far and drove into traffic with a floater of his own that was just ugly...but the competitive attitude is still awesome to see. Mario logged 11 points, 4 boards and an assist on a 5/12 night with 1 three pointer over 20 minutes. He probably attacking a couple of times too many right now, especially with Burke and Trier on the floor. But the forced stuff has reduced some and the defensive flaws haven't been quite so profound. Don't take that to mean his defense is by any means good, it's improving a bit though.

Trier: Allonzo Trier filled the stat sheet up last night. In 25 minutes, Iso Zo gave the Knicks 12 points, 5 boards and 2 assists without turning over the rock and converting 5/7 takes. When I talk about making your touches count, this stat-line is the shining example of what I'm looking for. He just didn't waste ANY possessions. There wasn't anything too new about how he produced those numbers, but the fact that he was so economical with his touches is a wrinkle unto itself. Defensively, I was nervous that pulling Trier apart from the every moving Dotson and Frank might cause a regression...not particularly. Zo is still putting in effort to make up for some mental mistakes and just overall playing his role to respectable results. Zo can score...we know that...now he's rounding things out with some boards, assists and flashes of defensive upside too.

Burke: Frank's ascension is cutting into Trey Burke's minutes. Top that off with the fact that when Trier is balling, Burke winds up taking a backseat as the iso guy and you end up with a tough night for Trey. In 14 minutes Burke put up 5 points on 2/4 shooting and nothing else of note. That sounds worse than it is. Trier and Kanter were the focal points of the second unit's successful runs and both guys score in isolation, which limited Burke's touches and assist opportunities. It's a compliment to the scorer that he did not press or force his offense. That said, the second unit is a threat to really mitigate Burke's strengths which are heavily reliant on having the ball in his hands and exacerbate his defensive weaknesses by leaving him without a defensive presence at the rim behind him. So it's worthwhile to consider fit and keep an eye on Burke at both ends with this new rotation.

Lance: Lance Thomas couldn't convert a strong preseason into regular season production early and with Knox nearing return, that could end up cutting his minutes heavily. Last night even without Knox, Lance got limited burn in spite of the second unit lacking much defense. The Knicks saw 9 minutes of Lance putting up 2 points, 1 board and 1 TO on 1/2 from the field. I've maintained that his is a 10-15 mpg player since his second year with the Knicks, so I'm not really complaining. I will say that with Burke/Trier and Kanter all in the same unit, Lance's intangibles could play a bigger role than they were in more two-way balanced starting units.

Ron, Luke and Mudiay: They got in when the game was over and the highlight of it all was Walt's response to the fan's chanting for Baker, "be careful what you wish for." But at the end of the day, they didn't get any opportunity to be notable.

Fizdale: Rasheed Wallace was with the Knicks bench mentoring Mitchell Robinson; the young rotation was the catalyst on multiple occasions in the game; and Fiz rode the right hot hands for most of the game. This was simply put, a strong performance from Fiz. Vets like Kanter, Burke and Lance all seem content for the time being and are playing their roles properly. Timmy showed a mentality shift that improved his game and everyone around him. Frank, Dotson and Mitch are all showing growth in mentality and play. Over the backdrop of a season that's more about next season, the energy is positive early and the first adjustments have looked reasonable and effective so far. If I have one complaint about the game last night, he probably kept the second unit vets in a bit too long in the fourth as the Nets tried to rally...but that's minor. The circumstances for this one were kinda perfect, so let's keep things reasonable for now. The Knicks are going to struggle inevitably and the vets' patience may be tested. But at the moment, let's enjoy the ride and hope for the best because last night's win was an injection of hope that I think everyone could have used.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 30, 2018, 12:42:18 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on October 30, 2018, 12:20:37 PM
He was the first great BAA/NBA scorer.  He was also shot and killed by his girlfriend's son.

Whoa!  Patricide.
Title: Burke
Post by: Kam on October 30, 2018, 01:02:51 PM
Not too concerned about Burke's future with the team.

Here is the list of guys, in least order of concern of losing:

Hicks
Kornet
Mudiay
Baker
Lee
Hey,ZoneUp
Thomas
Kanter
Burke
Hardaway Jr.
Vonleh
Iso Zo
Dotson
Hardwood Mitch
Knox
Frank
KP
Title: Re: The Top 40 scoring performances in NBA History
Post by: Nagel on October 30, 2018, 02:59:36 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 30, 2018, 12:08:39 PM
Wilt has 23 games with 62 or more points.
The other 17 are below.
Who is Joe Fulks?

81 Kobe
73 David Thompson
71 Baylor
71 David Robinson
70 Devin Booker
69 Jordan
68 Pete Maravich
65 Kobe
64 Baylor
64 Rick Barry
64 Jordan
63 Jerry West
63 Baylor
63 Joe Fulks
62 Carmelo Anthony
62 Tracy MacGrady
62 Kobe

Fulks invented the jump shot in the  NBA.

that's all he did.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 30, 2018, 04:38:31 PM
Our old friend Chasson Randle has hooked on with the Wizards.

One of Baker or Mudiay needs to get sent off the island to make room for Trier. The clock is going to start on that pretty soon. We need a multiyear pact while this season is still underway.

Once Knox is back he should have to string together a couple of games where he’s clearly better than Lance and Mario before there is any conversation about changing roles with Dotson.

Lee is also going to be interesting to work back in.

Soon our depth will be

Kanter
Mario
Knox
Lee
Trier
Burke

Behind

Robinson
Vonleh
Dotson
Hardaway
Frank


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 30, 2018, 08:21:32 PM
Trier at this point clearly goes G League.  Not an impact guy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Pharoah on October 30, 2018, 08:25:44 PM
(https://scontent-mxp1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/45261797_10158820003419616_1767256433872601088_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-mxp1-1.xx&oh=f04ce9edd75fb74b70723d7e5625e84e&oe=5C862BE7)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 30, 2018, 08:40:14 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 30, 2018, 08:21:32 PM
Trier at this point clearly goes G League.  Not an impact guy.

Yeah. One of the impacts Trier isn’t having is ensuring Ron Baker has played his last meaningful minute as a Knick. One of the other impacts he won’t have is making the bar very steep for Mudiay rejoining the Knicks rotation.

Think Kanter could pick up some defense in the G League?
Title: Ekant
Post by: Kam on October 30, 2018, 09:35:09 PM
Enes is great at a certain dollar amount in a role that suits him.  Inside scoring and rebounding off the bench.  At Lance's salary Enes would be a folk hero.


The new DLee.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on October 30, 2018, 10:07:04 PM
if You want NY to compete you need Durant or Leonard to jump ship and join KP.

simple.

of course more pieces need to be added but one star won't cut it.

ask L.A.
Title: Avatar
Post by: carlos123 on October 30, 2018, 10:22:17 PM
Hey Nagel, I think you need an avatar. How about Tyrone? I can change the Positive Pussy #2 for another message if you want

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/QT12OfKCC-QAuJoTLdQqvIsJsiOEq25QADcn5c1cgUA5_IuPbjrl-6nZhCV9YuSgBno7oGceN_MzKslBvPldq3JqRhe2STWWuGDdAltXbKW_9z3zIqQiHJSQJIrnLboIWKpZWq3yyOGJqbb7no9NfkaotbycdIyZ2PzGcvtwvgit3qPOrO5KBldE1t7bMtr4mzSv4WMn5PZvjA4NIWgEXVxU8VIN2lsF6egVMB2B90JobAS7xUuLpQoHB1XJtp3PdDofyk10uOpeTXZ51zEVDhEqG7iev6G8tfzD7qHTghSrUDigodRlR9tTLQYaXAAKxNJYlw0put1T70SHijxAW4lFjL_APuvGNeuqS18Wbgwaa5GCefCEBkU_qJeE_iWSzfREWk38Uy5Lofo31NF0FEjeCB1M93EsuMDINcbju2BAa29UdTfx_vgSg8uOdrfMtuSLOtc8LDyYEEBl8vadTgMETW5gdSVo2z0zCXMnB6uyRAwCkxw0K_du03q8c5ppyDoZuZW3DdPQmSGEh64kkZgfkLLlE5gyIcRPPT53voOuiA9XhixCfXU7NW8xO7ENWVX64gnlF3FkRTzXGobuSn-4v--yZ2XF3bNkOwpCrI40M-SDhuChRx-CeVJuUZvvmmaSjLOmt-ZH5AZ5swXpPJ0G=w900-h602-no)

Lets say: I want Durant AND Leonard
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 30, 2018, 10:47:11 PM
Jeez - lose the tights, Robinson.  Makes you (and guys like Ingram) look like weenies.
Title: Damn!
Post by: carlos123 on October 31, 2018, 12:47:06 AM
The Rockettes are ahead of us in the lotto sweepstakes.

C’mon Melo. Do something!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 31, 2018, 03:50:42 AM
Best thing Melo cando for the Rockets is get himself traded.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 31, 2018, 04:48:39 AM
Perry’s best move so far

http://theknickswall.com/inspecting-noah-vonleh-hot-start-positions-playmaking-potential/ (http://theknickswall.com/inspecting-noah-vonleh-hot-start-positions-playmaking-potential/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on October 31, 2018, 07:10:37 AM
Quote from: Kam on October 29, 2018, 03:14:03 PM
Brook Lopez is a year older than Enes Kanter.

He went from 21mi a year for three years l to 3.8mil this season only.

If Kanter is also willing to take that kind of haircut to remain where he claims to want to be... GREAT!

Agreed. The more I think about it the more
I could see him returning to us after we renounce him as fortunately the NBA market has smarter up to changes in player value.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 31, 2018, 10:06:38 AM
Quote
Wizards will sign Chasson Randle to reach the 14-player minimum. The contract will pay out $1.2M in salary for 2018-19, and cost another $2.4M in luxury taxes, if he makes it all the way through. They’d end up saving $4.4M from the Jodie Meeks trade ($8.1M – $3.7M for Randle).

What's wrong with the Wiz?  Besides their payroll being absurd.
Based on talent, Wall-Beal-Porter-Morris- a respectable C should be contenders.But every year they struggle and have trouble getting along.  The Wall-Beal combo isn't getting results.  Now 1-6 to start this year.  Terrible on both ends.  Beal & Wall calling out teammates already (no names used).

Every year they have dissension.  They added Jeff Green, Rivers and Dwight.  Underachievers, and the last two known for causing locker-room problems.  Why add those guys to an already fragile team?Dwight is butt sore and has missed every game so far.

They'll probably fire Coach Brooks before breaking up the core. 
But what a disappointment they've been the past 3 or so years.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 31, 2018, 10:08:51 AM
Meanwhile 2-5 has the Knix tied for 9th in the East.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 31, 2018, 03:03:48 PM
Re:  Wiz

Uh,,,,,,,,,,,,

Dwight has not played yet

And Porter refuses to assert himself.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 31, 2018, 03:49:23 PM
Wiz validating my long-held theory that whoever relies on Jeff Green is in trouble.

It's probably a combination of Porter not being assertive and the WallBeal not leaving much for him.

I noted Dwight hasn't played.  Hurt his bottom.  Which hasn't helped the team.  They could use his D, but he'll clog up the O and demand post touches and be little help on that end.  Should be better than foul-prone Mahinmi.  But neither want to guard outside.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 31, 2018, 07:05:56 PM
Jimmer Tracker is back

https://twitter.com/Jimmerosity/status/1057747275546423296 (https://twitter.com/Jimmerosity/status/1057747275546423296)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on October 31, 2018, 07:09:26 PM
Oddly I actually think Wall and Beal have no chemistry.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 31, 2018, 07:38:25 PM
This is their 7th year playing together.
They have had issues in the past.  maybe never resolved fully.
I used to think Wall was very difficult to play with, but he's expanded his floor game the past 2 or 3 years.

Wiz usually have a crappy bench, which obviously doesn't help.
I like Uber-Kelly.
Title: Wizards
Post by: Kam on October 31, 2018, 07:38:54 PM
Haven't been able to do any real team building other than though the draft.

Need to make a trade if they want to get better. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 31, 2018, 07:53:37 PM
Teams salivated over Beal.  Some likely still do.

I wasn't bullish on the Porter extension, though it looks cheap now compared to some other contracts - and he has played at a pretty good level.  I think there is just more to get out of him than 10 shots and 6 boards a night.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 31, 2018, 08:08:33 PM
Agree Porter could do more.
But he's way overpaid for what he gives.

2016-07-07 signed unrestricted free agent Ian Mahinmi to a 4-year, $64M contract
2016-07-07 signed unrestricted free agent Jason Smith to a 3-year, $16M contract

When they had money to spend they blew it.
$16M per on Mahinmi.

They've had big trouble finding a backup PG.
They tried Trey Burke, Jennings, Tim Frazier (who they barely played), Satoransky (another FA signing).

Gave Meeks the MLE and then ditched him for a 2nd rounder they'll never see.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 31, 2018, 08:20:28 PM
Re:  Mahinmi

I wont quibble

Guys with his size and skillset dont grow on trees.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 31, 2018, 08:33:27 PM
BUT..................

in checking his stats - scary that Ian has never scored 20 in a game and never blocked 5 shots

2 year gap - not sure where he was at that time - but that was proceeded by a deal which landed Dallas Darren Collison and Dahntay Jones.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mahinia01.html (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mahinia01.html)

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 31, 2018, 08:43:17 PM
For no reason...

https://twitter.com/natashazimbaro/status/1057784655892635648 (https://twitter.com/natashazimbaro/status/1057784655892635648)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 31, 2018, 09:16:29 PM
Mahinmi is foul and injury prone.
Also mechanical.  Can't guard the modern NBA.
And they signed him to $16M as their backup C, when they had Gortat.

interesting that Hardaway and Oladipo are guarding each other.

IND doing a good job of getting switches and taking advantage.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 31, 2018, 09:25:50 PM
Why did Tiago Splitter retire?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 31, 2018, 09:29:48 PM
Mahinmi was replacing NENE, who was making 13 mil.

They have Ian one more year - have ditched Gortat (wouldnt have if it was working) and may/may not keep Dwight another year......(may prefer the cap space)
Title: Noah Vonleh Statline
Post by: Kam on October 31, 2018, 10:21:56 PM
Stuffed
Title: Lance Thomas
Post by: Kam on October 31, 2018, 10:25:40 PM
Supposedly gets minutes for his defense but all I see is we give up the lead with him out there brickin
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 31, 2018, 10:34:57 PM
There's 240 minutes in a game.  We need to put up 110 points a game.

That is 11 points per 24 minutes.

Lance Thomas contributed 3 points in 16.
Enes Kanter contributed 7 points in 21.

You can't win with this.

But since we are hoping for losses... this was still a good game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 31, 2018, 10:49:01 PM
However good Hardaway is playing, once we start to run for him we are bound to lose.

Kanter was extra horrible tonight and got about 5 minutes too much burn.

Lance is entirely useless except as a mediocre defender. Lee and or Knox means we never see him on the floor again.

I liked what I saw from Vonleh, Dotson, and Trier.

7 dimes and really good D from Frank who needs to take more assertive shots.

Mitch will have to figure out how to be effective in games like this.

For all their talent, Indy needed big time luck to catch us. 

We have the tools to win games like these.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 31, 2018, 11:00:38 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 31, 2018, 10:49:01 PM

7 dimes and really good D from Frank who needs to take more assertive shots.


Clyde mentioned Frank made his first three pt attempt in the previous two starts.

But he missed his first three pt attempt tonight.

It's like he uses his first shot as evidence whether or not he should shoot more.

He has to break that habit.  We need his scoring, or drawing more fouls.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 31, 2018, 11:03:42 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 31, 2018, 10:49:01 PM

We have the tools to win games like these.

You're damn right.  No KP No Lee no Knox.  We aren't going to be at full strength for a while.

So as long as we show competitiveness (Miami game the exception) it's all good.

I praise Fizz so far.

He is ok eating losses in order to develop the team.

Not many coaches would be so generous with their personal W-L coaching record.

EDIT: Also i doubt we would've been close in this game with the previous starting lineup.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 31, 2018, 11:04:46 PM
It will continue to be a learning process for Frank. It’s clearly worthwhile at this point.

For all the crapping on Lance, he was two steals better than O’Quinn and McDermott combined.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 31, 2018, 11:07:24 PM
We need to find better ways to get somebody moving downhill with the ballahead of their defender in late game possessions. Once we do that, the record will start to correct itself.
Title: Vonleh and Trier
Post by: Kam on October 31, 2018, 11:12:03 PM
Noah "partially guaranteed" Vonleh can win comeback player of the year... let's see who else emerges.

Alonzo "two-way" Trier has a shot at All-Rookie 2nd Team.

Smart money.

Mary "mid-level" Ohezonya

Dumb money.

Title: Only 1 assist 2 rebounds
Post by: Kam on October 31, 2018, 11:56:14 PM
For Jr.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on November 01, 2018, 12:09:29 AM
Rose drops 50.

remarkable.

NY is on a pace to win 20.   however my 25 win pick includes 25 games of KP so i'm feeling pretty good at 25.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 01, 2018, 04:36:19 AM
If Tim is going to score 37 on very good %'s, I don't care if he has negative rebounds and assists.  Hall pass for that game.
5 turnovers more problematic as those are even worse than missed shots.

But I only saw the 1st half.
So no real idea what went down.

Oladipo usually plays poorly when I see INDy.  And again he had an ineffective low-key 1st half.  I shouldn't have turned off (had to work).

Sabonis played with fire.
Some serious stat stuffing in 21 mins.
Lotta good, plus 6 TO's & 6 Fouls.

Zonja too casual and careless (Breen called him "reckless").
Still a good gamble and 75 games to see if he can focus and tighten up his sloppy game. 

Mud/Burke; Vonleh/Subpar Mario ...
Who knew which of these cats would show NBA level play and which would continue to look a mess.
So far, Burke and Vonleh look legit.
Early on Noah, but he could even become a legit starter.
Burke looks like a legit backup PG.

Reclamations that become rotation players can really boost a team.
Jury still out on Mud & Zonja.  If they fail to work out, we simply move on.  2 out of 4 scrap heap guys proving out is still a very good ratio.

Trier a somewhat different case but also a good find.
Knix have had good scouting and drafting the past dozen or so years.

With KZ and Knox out, Knix can take some pride in competitive losses.
Too bad there are so many other bad teams this year, as we could use another Top 10, preferably Top 5 pick for all our losses.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on November 01, 2018, 06:57:02 AM
Good competitive game. KP was sorely missed. Main negative is Enes looking as though demotion is getting to him. Has THJ finally arrived? Amazing performance.
Title: For the Kanter beliebers
Post by: Kam on November 01, 2018, 11:10:53 AM
Jonathan Macri
@JCMacriNBA
 Among the Knicks early season +/- numbers, 2 really stand out:

Vonleh's on court rating: +9.9 (easily the best on NY)
Kanter off court: +4.5 (also easily the highest)

Fiz's greatest challenge: finding workable defensive units for Kanter while keeping good D in the starting 5.
Title: Re: For the Kanter beliebers
Post by: Kam on November 01, 2018, 11:14:16 AM
Quote from: Kam on November 01, 2018, 11:10:53 AM

Fiz's greatest challenge: finding workable defensive units for Kanter while keeping good D in the starting 5.

I doubt the juice is worth the squeeze.  Especially if KP comes back as our stretch 5 and Vonleh cements the 4.

KP/MR
NV
DD
JR
FN

Spells D - E - F - E - N - S - E

I am impressed with Tim's ability and willingness to draw charging fouls.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 01, 2018, 11:21:15 AM
Curiously,Thomas came in last night late in the 4th quarter and it was a decisively grim turn of events. Kanter had an unusually bad game. Hardaway Jr. trying to get to that next level — and succeeding — save for the last 5 minutes of the game. Which, you know, is a pretty important 5 minutes. That said, I love watching the surprises with the team this year. Like Trier last night. Confidence and control with the ball. We are genuinely close to winning these games. Who expected that?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Pharoah on November 01, 2018, 11:24:33 AM
  I   know getting that close only to lose hurts, but watching the youngest team in the league drag another playoff team into a dogfight is more sweet than bitter. The Pacers has Oladipo, the Knicks didn’t have KP. The game itself was neck and neck from start to finish with promising signs from a slew of players. A physical, defensive minded team went at the kids and they never backed down. We’ve witnessed teams of vets fold mentally under those circumstances in the past. It might not be clear yet, but the knicks feel like they’re on to something and it’d be a shame to let close losses to quality teams ruin that.

    Frank: Frank’s jumper abandoned him and the Pacers collapsed their defense to shut down his offense. He still managed to get into the lane on many of his touches and find players for assists while his defense anchored a great team effort from the starters. 2/8 from the field and 0/2 from three point land, but Frank contributed 4 points, 7 assists (two more gimmes were missed by teammates too), 1 steal and just 2 TO's in 33 minutes. He HAS to get some more points on the board in that time, but there were some really promising signs in his game. First and foremost, he found his ways to get into the lane against a defense that he couldn't keep honest with his jumper and once he got in the paint; he was able to find his big men consistently. On multiple occasions the Pacers forced Frank left and he responded with much improved comfort using that left hand. Defensively, he continues to anchor the entire team and that starting unit is really starting to show promise as the miscommunications have been reduced. Ntilikina's a work in progress, no doubt, but if he starts to find consistency with his jumper and getting into the lane...

    THJ: Tim Hardaway knocked down a long catch and shoot three to start the game and was on fire the rest of the way. His off the dribble jumpers were falling and he was unconscious from three point land. 37 points off 10/19 from the field, 7/11 from three and 10/10 from the free throw line. He was the picture of efficiency as a scorer. Now the rest of his statline isn't nearly as pretty. He only added 1 rebound and 1 assist to 5 TO's that included two times he just got his pocket picked by Oladipo during their fourth quarter duel. That's a lot easier to forgive because of how crucial he was to our offense. The Pacers played REALLY strong defense and they run out bigs that can hurt a team with weak spacing like ours. This led to a lot of situations where the shot clock ran low and somebody had to create. Surrounded by 23 and under players, Timmy stepped up and made a LOT of plays. I'm not sure I can really blame him for how the closing minutes went. I get the feeling late in games that Fiz isn't ready to trust the kids thanks to substitution habits and last night's ISO-THJ conclusion...so I'm giving Tim a pass for fading late against one of the top 5 SG's in the league, with no semblance of serious plays being run. But let's keep an eye on it.

    Dotson: Dot started the game 1/4 and struggling to hit even an open look. Then as the game got tight and the team needed buckets, he just started to make play after play. Damyean Dotson pumped in 13 points, 3 rebounds, an assist and a steal that led to an and-one with some foul trouble for Sabonis on the side. He went from 1/4 early to 5/11 closing and added another 2/4 from three point land. His defense was good enough that Breen kept bringing up how Dotson's motor wasn't going away regardless of those early offensive struggles. Most importantly, what Dot's doing feels sustainable. His shooting touch got him drafted, his defense is just plain good and the scoring will stick as long as he's willing to attack. The kid has shown that he belongs and the question now is "how much can he improve?" I think the answer is more than most would expect, feel free to ask if you want more on this viewpoint.

    Vonleh: As great as THJ was last night, Noah Vonleh was my favorite player. That's because his defensive presence was massive. At one point, Myles Turner made consecutive baskets off of Pick and Rolls that forced switches. The next time down when the switch came, you could hear Vonleh SCREAMING for an extra switch so that he could guard Turner. Vonleh came over, played post defense and knocked the ball off of Turner's leg and out of bounds. On another occasion; he blocked a shot, rebounded it, dribbled the ball up the court to push pace and found Hardaway open for a three pointer. He did EVERYTHING. 4/6 from the field, 1/2 from three (yep he's starting to shoot too) which translated to 14 points, 10 rebounds, 4 assists, 2 steals and 3 blocks. It's impossible to exaggerate how fun he is to watch on defense; chasing guards on a switch or shutting down bigs in the post. Now it wasn't a perfect night, he also had 5 TO's with that preseason offensive foul bug rearing it's head. But at this early point in the season Vonleh has been a revelation from his work at the top of the key with our guards to his defense in all situations...and also it feels like he dunks on at least one guy a game in spite of low FGAs.

    Mitch: So Mitch didn't give us any scoring but his presence was still clear as day. At one point he defended three consecutive jump shot attempts, blocking one from Myles Turner and forcing misses on all of 'em. Sheed's apprentice added 4 boards and 2 blocks while missing his only 3 attempts in an 18 minute run. He's still getting his legs under him and plays so intense that you can see him gassed fairly quickly, but the results of his time out there are hard to deny. I didn't count, but Vonleh reaped a lot of benefit from rebounding shots that Mitch had challenged when Pacers attacked (like the three I mentioned before). He did the NBA Street 2 "hold both shoulder buttons down" block too, grabbing a shot he blocked like it was a damned rebound. I'm just waiting for his cardio to improve and for his PnR footwork to gain some consistency. He's still bypassing his mistakes off pure athleticism and effort, but his impact will be even more pronounced when he masters the details.

    Burke: I think Burke got a bit of a raw deal last night as he let a lot of the guys around him take isolations or attack possessions and just never established the rhythm you need to be an impact scorer. 2/5 from the field for 6 points and 2 assists without a TO for Trey. I'm giving him a mulligan on the PnR defense last night too because none of our defenders were particularly good in that area while the personnel around him just does not help in any way defensively. It was an uneventful 14 minutes but that's better than forcing the issue.

    Allonzo: Allonzo Trier was in full Iso-Zo mode last night, scoring with great efficiency and snaking into the lane around the Pacers' many big men. Trier was 6/7 from the field, 2/2 from three for 14 points, 3 boards, 1 assist and a block. Let's not linger on what we already know about and point out a few stand out bits. This was only the second time that Zo has made multiple three's in a game and only the third time he's even attempted multiple three pointers. I'd like to see him look for that three ball a bit more and force defenders to find him further from the basket...he's already hard to stop going North to South so that additional space between the defender and his help ought to let Trier be even more crafty. Trier also stood out for a few very nice defensive stands against a tricky scorer in his own right, Tyreke Evans. Having this rookie's defense develop into a strength will be huge because he's already got that whole scoring thing figured out.

    Lance: Lance had a nice drive for an and-one as soon as he came into the game and spent the next 15 minutes unable to put the ball in the hoop or log much in the way of measurables. He put up 3 points and 2 steals in 16 minutes on 1/4 from the field including a missed corner three that was wide open late and would have tied the game. That miss stood out and may have made a pedestrian performance just look terrible. The Knicks leaned on him late to sure up the defense at the 4 slot and he did a commendable job but being unable to impact the game anywhere else while just being commendable...it was a step back in the facepalm direction. His defense and leadership has value but he has to either make those assets big enough to make their impact felt throughout his time on the floor or he needs to make his damned open looks...should do both, but beggars can't be choosers here and I'll take one.

    Mario: There was this brief moment after Sabonis had torched the front court in the first quarter, where Mario looked locked in and hungry. He had some nice defensive moments, a coast to coast attack and grabbed some boards...but that bit of time was sandwiched between an atrocious first quarter defensively and out of control play after. 3 points, 7 rebounds and 2 TO's in 13 minutes from Mario that were frustrating because we saw glimpses of the tools he has but it never came together. Making just 1 of 5 attempts is no way to stay on the floor.

    Kanter: Kanter tends to struggle with bigger bodied defenders and if you couple offensive struggles with his defensive struggles then that's a recipe for Knicks twitter to scream "off with his head" like a slept on Big Pun track. Kanter was unusually inefficient with 3/11 from the field for 7 points, 6 boards and 2 assists to 2 TO's in 21 minutes. Everyone is focused on Domantas Sabonis dropping 30 points on 12/12 from the field predominantly in pick and roll attacks against Kanter, so you've probably heard enough about that. If Kanter's on an island as the only big, these sorts of things can happen...especially against someone as talented as Sabonis has become. More importantly, if his defensive effort is going to wane like that then I don't think he should be getting 11 takes on the other end while we have isolation players like Burke and Zo out there. If he was making them it'd be one thing, but everyone should recognize when he's up against two bigs on the other end...it's a mismatch in the wrong direction and we don't need to force that. Either way, this was the first time I really felt frustrated about his effort so far. I think part of that was more personnel and confusion related against a tough PnR attack. But if that becomes habitual then Mitch needs to get the cardio up FAST.

    Fiz: The mixed bag that is Fiz coaching has really come down to mostly positive developments that get overshadowed by a handful of bad choices late. This game was no different in that aspect. I think Fiz left Kanter against Domantas for too damned long and the stat sheet doesn't even show how pronounced this was. Noah Vonleh matched with Domantas a few times late and was WAY more effective. Lance was out there too long late as well imo, but again, the missed corner three could be painting this in a worse light. Last on the negative tip, can we PLEASE make a shift to having Frank defend the player that's taking over in the fourth quarter. I love that Timmy is accepting the challenge but he's the weakest perimeter defender in the starting unit; we have a potential shutdown guard who could use the lessons that come with guarding elite scorers late; and Tim's shouldering too much offensive burden to expect to stop great scorers 45 minutes into the game. But let me add the positives to all of this. Our two sophomores that got no love last year logged 65 minutes combined in a neck and neck battle. When the team needed an extra scorer late, Fiz trusted the rookie Trier and Zo made a play almost immediately. There's a lot to be said about this team not folding in a physical game if only because so many previous rosters have had meltdowns over missed calls and high pressure defense. I'm not sure what to think of the unimaginative offense late in games, especially when Fiz says the team didn't execute the plays he drew up. Late game execution is something to watch but it's also one we probably should give Fiz some leeway and time on. He's gotta figure out what works and doesn't; he's got an extremely young team that hasn't been in these situations before; and he's missing that go-to player that has created separation in games like Milwaukee and last night. The in-game stuff has had a hit or miss feel, but the overall direction of the team and efficacy of rotations has been steadily improving. Add the fact that our young cats are showing sincere growth in their mindsets, decision making and defense...it's hard for me to be too mad right now.

    Visualize This: This hit me while watching Noah Vonleh in the first half last night. The offense tends to start plays with the ball handler heading for a wing and then swinging the ball to Vonleh who can hand it off or keep swinging it and set a screen. This means Noah's getting a lot of touches and a ton of action even off the ball. The big man has been really good here, making use of every option he has from passing to attacking off the dribble to even some shots last night. Now think about who that role is actually designed for with this franchise...KP is going to EAT in that role. I'm telling you, go through the Vonleh highlights or watch the first half again and just picture KP in that role. I can already picture it and while it feels far away, that means that the players around KP will be even more comfortable executing around him. I think this will be the foundation...and also I already want to re-sign Vonleh.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 01, 2018, 12:16:28 PM
These losses... this one didn't feel like a tough loss at all... i dunno what some of these scribes are talkin about.

Miami was a tough loss.
Title: Re: For the Kanter beliebers
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 01, 2018, 12:56:06 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 01, 2018, 11:10:53 AM
Jonathan Macri
@JCMacriNBA
 Among the Knicks early season +/- numbers, 2 really stand out:

Vonleh's on court rating: +9.9 (easily the best on NY)
Kanter off court: +4.5 (also easily the highest)

Fiz's greatest challenge: finding workable defensive units for Kanter while keeping good D in the starting 5.

We have been over this

Vonleh's Offense/defense rating is the best on the team

But Kanter's is 110/108, nearer the top than the bottom
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 01, 2018, 01:06:23 PM
Win shares per 48 minutes


Vonleh  -  .227

Hardaway -   .142

Robinson -   .141

Kanter -   .123

Dotson -    .109

Trier -   .063

Burke -  .035

Ntlikina -   .030

Hazonja looked the worst last night and is at the bottom (other than Kornet) -   at -.100


Complete Knick team  stats (sortable):

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/NYK/2019.html#all_per_poss (https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/NYK/2019.html#all_per_poss)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 01, 2018, 01:13:47 PM
I don't like Kant & Zonja out there at the same time.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 01, 2018, 02:33:26 PM
hey Chip remember when I was able to find the date and box score of the Oscar v. NYK game you went to?

Well I just pulled a similar trick:

Giants great Willie McCovey (https://apnews.com/6ecb49d6b22a4baba976e6099608f7fe)

My extremely minor Willie McCovey story.
As a kid I went to a doubleheader with my brother and father.
We were in the lower section, and as things dragged along in the 2nd game, lots of folks had left.  So my brother and I moved down and went eventually to the front row, where we got the bright idea of pounding on the top of the Padres dugout (possibly to the tune of Let's Go Mets).  After a while Willie McCovey pops out from the dugout and yells, "Hey! you kids ..."  My brother starts asking him to give us a ball, I guess hoping for a bribe to leave them alone.  Willie McC: "Get out of here" as he scans around for some security.  And Willie was a big guy, so we hustled back up a couple dozen rows to where our seats were.  My father mildly curious asked, "What was that all about?"  He hadn't really been paying attention to what we were up to.  My brother (excitedly): "We just talked to Willie McCovey."  I marveled at that positive spin, since I thought we were about to get kicked out of the stadium or otherwise get in trouble from some direction.  But it was the 70's and nobody really cared.  I had just turned 9 and my brother had just turned 12.

Through the magic of the internet, a quick 20 seconds of research confirms this occurred Sunday May 5, 1974.  I remembered it was NYMets v. SD Padres and McCovey only spent '74 & '75 with San Diego.  And easy to spot their only doubleheader in those two years v. NYM (https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/NYN/NYN197405052.shtml).  No wonder folks started leaving.  Both teams had losing records and the 2nd game went into extra innings with the Mets winning in the 10th.  Both games had a good deal of scoring late.  Mets record was 10-15 after splitting that doubleheader.  This after almost winning the World Series the year before.

Anyway, Willie McCovey had a terrific career and was still affiliated with the Giants.  Nice tribute when they moved into a new stadium and named the water beyond the outfield fence McCovey's Cove.
Title: AnalytKnicks
Post by: Kam on November 01, 2018, 04:14:02 PM
Finally the roster breakdown you never asked for:


Players that help the team more than hurt the team:

* Noah
* Damyean
* Alwaysonzo

Players that are basically net neutral, but marginally positive

* Junior
* Frank
* Trey
* Mitch

Players that are basically net neutral, but marginally negative

* Enes
* Ron

Players that hurt the team more than help

* Lance
* Mario


Injured

* KP
* Lee
* Knox

Reserve

* Emmannuel
* Luke
* Isiah
Title: Knicks Names
Post by: Kam on November 01, 2018, 04:21:05 PM
We finally have a good Noah.

Not that crappy one who tried to save all the animals in his boat.
Title: Nicknames
Post by: Kam on November 01, 2018, 04:45:27 PM
Novon Layups

Because he... like... blocks shots and stuff.  Say Novon fast enough and it still sounds like you're saying Noah Von.

E Kant

He can't defend inside. He can't shoot threes.  He's from the old world.  He philosophizes about his place in the world.

Junior!

His dad was better.  Also more famous.  But despised.  I won't utter the full name.  Instead i yell out JUNIOR! like the guy stalking Aaron Rodgers.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B7q5VvHCYAAc5Q0.jpg)

Hardwood Mitch

The only other Mitch in the NBA i know is Brentwood Mitch.  Because that's Kid's nickname for him.

Subpar Mario

This one is rather self-evident

(https://cdn.drawception.com/images/panels/2016/7-4/p68NQt7x13-6.png)

Lance alittle

Lance. a lot (he is not)

Iso Zo

This one is Alonzo's own Twitter handle.  So i'm not sure it qualifies, but its accurate and funny.
How about Always On Zo Trier/i]?

Moody Guy

I don't know how accurate this is. But its easy.

-----


Need to work on better names / find nicknames for:

Damyean Dotson

I like the simplicity of Dot. 
But i also like Damn Dotson  -  - Based on the Damn Daniel meme of 2016 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnI-byHtMN0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnI-byHtMN0)

Frank


Frank is kinda boring.  How aboutKnickilina after what Stiff Curry said about him?

Kristaps PorZingis

KZ?

Trey Burke

Trey Trey  His name is an aphorism for his play </Clyde Voice>

Ron Baker

Touchdown Maker?  Shout out to Stephen Baker 1987-1992 NY Giants

Kentucky's Kevin Knox

Nothing jumps out at me Hard Knox?  That's not a basketball adjective.

Luke Kornet

There's a place called Koronet Pizza on Broadway and 110th street.  Used to go there all the time in the 80s.  They had video game machines.

Courtney Lee

CLee is boring
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 01, 2018, 07:23:17 PM
Three-ball Burke

Kornet = Chop Suey
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 01, 2018, 08:12:00 PM
I don't think most people get the Kornet Chop Suey  reference.  It's 100 years old.
Title: Kaminheiro
Post by: carlos123 on November 01, 2018, 10:57:58 PM
Kaminheiro, you're becoming a Brazilian version of BoZ.

I know you ain't Brasileiro, but you probably have the flair to be one.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41ChMa2LxkL._SR600%2C315_PIWhiteStrip%2CBottomLeft%2C0%2C35_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 02, 2018, 12:18:05 AM
Paul George 4-20, 0-10 from deep - bailed out by nice performances by teammates Abrines and Shroder.

Monk has 21 in 23 minutes (7-15, 4-12), averaging 24 minutes and 13 points for 4-5 Hornets
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 02, 2018, 02:06:31 AM
Quote from: Kam on November 01, 2018, 08:12:00 PM
I don't think most people get the Kornet Chop Suey  reference.  It's 100 years old.

So it's educational.

Folks should know:
- who Louis Armstrong was
- what a cornet was/is
- what music from the Jazz Age sounded like

There's 100 years of recorded music, so no reason not to listen to great music and musicianship all the time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2fhRwAFA2Y

Anyway, I think it'd be pretty amusing if people called Luke Kornet "Chop Suey."  It's a rather oddball knickname, and the Louis Armstrong reference just makes it that much better.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 02, 2018, 02:15:19 AM
He needs more Jazz in his game.

I had such high hopes for Luke, but he’s a bit of a wet noodle. How bout Lo Mein?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 02, 2018, 10:58:54 AM
Laughing at the yahoos this morning re:  D'Aaron Fox

Let the players simmer, folks - before crucifying them (see Hardaway, Tim Jr)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 02, 2018, 11:42:00 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 02, 2018, 02:06:31 AM
Quote from: Kam on November 01, 2018, 08:12:00 PM
I don't think most people get the Kornet Chop Suey  reference.  It's 100 years old.

So it's educational.

Folks should know:
- who Louis Armstrong was
- what a cornet was/is
- what music from the Jazz Age sounded like


I've never even seen Chop Suey on a menu. 

I listened to that song.

It would be a good song to hear while being euthanized.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on November 02, 2018, 11:47:02 AM
seems koach has found religion or a chili recipe.

good game in Boston last night

took a shit ton of 3s to beat the paint-oriented Bucks-GF can get to the hoop whenever he wants-Ojeleye did a decent job though,

Celts did a nice job with ball movement, and hitting their shots.

good thing 3s beat 2s

another step forward for Gordo-he had a good game

game had a play-off feel, particularly as the Bucks came back from 15 down in 4Q.

not ready for 7 of those

yet. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 02, 2018, 12:07:16 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 02, 2018, 10:58:54 AM
Laughing at the yahoos this morning re:  D'Aaron Fox

Let the players simmer, folks - before crucifying them (see Hardaway, Tim Jr)

Yup. Particularly point guards. Need cooking. By the way, that "breakout game" was Fox's 69th career start. So let's stop f'ing around with our own guy....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 02, 2018, 02:43:55 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 01, 2018, 04:36:19 AM

Trier a somewhat different case but also a good find.
Knix have had good scouting and drafting the past dozen or so years.


2009 called and she disagrees.
Title: Since the Lineup Shuffle (3 game sample size)
Post by: Kam on November 02, 2018, 04:37:08 PM
Mitchell Robinson on the court: 109.2 Offensive Rating, 110.8 Defensive Rating
Mitchell Robinson off the court: 103.6 Offensive Rating, 114.0 Defensive Rating

Without Hardwood Mitch we get blown out.

Enes Kanter on the court: 103.6 Offensive Rating, 113.3 Defensive Rating
Enes Kanter off the court: 102.4 Offensive Rating, 100.0 Defensive Rating

Without EKant we win by 2.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 02, 2018, 05:30:59 PM
 Heh

Psychobabble
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 02, 2018, 08:41:19 PM
Dwight with a 13 point 1stQ, looking spry in his debut.

Nets were up 14 v. Rockettes.
End of half run has BKY just up 5.

DAL should be a good matchup for NYK
Title: Dotson Trier
Post by: Kam on November 02, 2018, 09:20:38 PM
Amazing how much we've relied on these unheralded guys. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 02, 2018, 09:27:26 PM
Wiz bench just rolled over,
then the team totally collapsed.
gave up a 44 point 2Q at home.

Zonja scoring after Lance and Vonleh fouled a lot.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 02, 2018, 09:46:47 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 02, 2018, 09:27:26 PM
Wiz bench just rolled over,
then the team totally collapsed.
gave up a 44 point 2Q at home.


They will blame dwight
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 02, 2018, 09:58:22 PM
Alright, Mudly!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on November 02, 2018, 10:58:04 PM
Watching mavs broadcast on net. They are impressed with energy of knicks. Kudos to Trier ,Robinson, and bench.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 02, 2018, 11:12:19 PM
The Mavs are funny. Lots of talent but no cohesion yet. Denny is a little dick. Glad we passed.

All our bigs got to work on not fouling.

Trier was awesome, but Clyde still needs to sit down with him.

Mitch is here. Who had the more impactful game, the second rounder or the undrafted guy?

It looks like we have a 9.5 man rotation till Sunday

Mitch Noah Dot Timmy Frank then Enes Lance Manny Zo. Mario and or Burke as needed for a short time.

Then we get back Knox

Then we get back Lee

We’re gonna be able to give a lot of energy, a lot of pressure, and a lot of looks.

We need to keep Kornet for depth, so Ron has got to go. There is nothing the likeable Mr. Baker does better than any of our other guards.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 02, 2018, 11:58:42 PM
6 points

4 assists

3 steals

2 rebounds

15 minutes
Title: COUGH
Post by: chipstern on November 03, 2018, 01:19:25 AM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on November 02, 2018, 11:58:42 PM
6 points

4 assists

3 steals

2 rebounds

15 minutes


Good show, EM. 

Meanwhile...

Allonzo Trier
8-10 FGs
6-7 FTs
23 points, 2 boards, 1 assist, 1 steal
24 minutes

Mitchell Robinson
13 points, 10 rebounds, 3 assists, 3 steals

According to the Prophet Kiid, a couple of slugs ticketed for the G League, eh?  

HEH

Jimmer Fredette
0 points, 0 boards, 0 assists
Title: Bo D
Post by: chipstern on November 03, 2018, 01:28:49 AM
Thanks for sharing the Willie McCovey story.

When he launched that two-out rocket into the glove of Bobby Richardson in Game 7 bottom of the ninth, I cried like a baby for my Giants...for Stretch, The Baby Bull, Say Hey, the Alou Brothers, Jim Davenport, Juan Marichal, Jack Sanford...

By the way, that OKC-Charlotte game on Thursday night?

I was there at the Spectrum Center, thanks to the generosity of my son-in-law. 

Malik Monk looked pretty damn good. 

Westbrook took a while to get it going, but that motherfucker is like the Barry Sanders of point guards.  Just kept coming like a human jet ski.  And in the final stanza, he finally executed in the half court, not simply attacking.  Showed a lot of respect for Kemba after the game.   

Zeller a nice player.  Wily got some burn.  Kaminsky and Biyombo got NADA. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 03, 2018, 06:06:43 AM
DAL does have talent, but limited cohesion.  Well put.

Knix had a couple discombobulated stretches.  but then would get it together.  Tryer and Datsun aren't afraid to offend.
I liked that Tim was moving the ball when his shots weren't going down (everything was long), then took some shots and got back ina  rhythm to wind up right around his averages.  he needs to gte more consistent, and that kind of patience helps.  Turning an off game into a decent/solid one.

Mitch was mostly really good besides the pair of blunders to end the half.  I like the way he gets up high and deflects passes when guys try to enter it towards the FT line.  Most Bigs just stick up a hand or feel their job is done since their man is passing, but he really goes at the ball.  Deflected at least two of those that turned into DAL turnovers.  Has done it before too.  Way to be lengthy long fella.

Doncic must have done allright 4Q, because through 3 he was 0-4 on 3's with lots of turnovers.  He sees things and makes some stellar passes, but also gets sloppy.  Takes some bad shots too.
And is it me, or does he look chunky, like he needs to drop 10 pounds?
Conditioning looked off.

Barea was just a little off on all his shots.
DeAndre the Giant did nada.
Finney Smith and Kleber had good games.

Knix left open 3-point shooters often.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 03, 2018, 07:43:11 AM
Slugs?


heh - good stuff.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on November 03, 2018, 10:03:43 AM
It must be Scott Perry. The knicks finally have someone in control who knows talent. Amazing really, no overpriced bench duds just dumpster diving gems hidden in the trash.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 03, 2018, 10:41:45 AM
If you see Minny, keep an eye on Josh Okogie.
He's already starting.
Very active and physical.
In 7 games he already has 3 steals twice.
He's shooting nearly 4 3's a game and hasn't the range yet, so his %'s are low.  But he's all over the court, and if you turn your head he'll backdoor a fool, or steal the ball. 
Looks like he's been playing NBA defense for 7 years not just 7 games ...

Minny had a close game v. GSW until they only managed 12 in the 4Q.
I caught a good deal of the 2Q & 3Q.  DRose followed up his 50 point performance with 3 in 5 minutes and a body part in rebellion.  Sore ankle, couldn't go more.  unfortunately Teague was out, so they were stuck with Ty Jones.
Title: Mudiay To Trier
Post by: chipstern on November 03, 2018, 12:01:04 PM
That little corner pocket pass Emmanuel made to Trier on the break was SWEET. 

And Mitchell's 360-Reverse Dunk was INSANE. 

Hard KNOX a coming...

Fizz is inculcating a competitive culture we can build on game by game by game, close-out losses and blow outs notwithstanding. 

I like how the FIZZ KIDS don't take bad games or injuries to heart, but work to meet Coach's expectations (Mario, Emmanuel) or exceed them (Mitchell, Allonzo, DD).   

PS: I am so happy to see how Timmy's game is evolving.  Still has mental lapses and heat checks, but is staying aggressive, not settling for 90% long bombs, going hard to the rack, looking to board and involve his team mates, and emerging as a leader. 
Title: Re: Shut up & Dribble
Post by: bankshot1 on November 03, 2018, 12:17:35 PM
A heads-up

Tonight on Showtime (Sat 11/3/18 9pm)

SHUT UP AND DRIBBLE, Season 1: This three-part documentary series chronicles the modern history of the NBA. By taking control of their own destinies, basketball players have helped to bring about social change and make their own political statements


Trailer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8ZYeVuzPKs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8ZYeVuzPKs)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 03, 2018, 02:03:52 PM
Next up: the Wiz-kids
Man they are struggling.
They actually made their first 7 shots v. OKC and got up 10.
Then a huge collapse.

Poor defense, rebounding, effort.
One play, late 1Q, Wall throws a bad pass into traffic near the rim.
Westbrook comes zooming out, and Wall became a door letting Westbrook zoom through.  Wall barely even stuck out a hand to feign transition defense.  He wanted time to pout.

Seems odd that Brooks brings in a full 2nd unit a la Hubie, when it seems like Beal and Wall should try more time apart.  Why not let Beal lead the 2nd unit, while Wall sits, then bring back in Wall and let Beal get a blow.  2nd unit: Oubre - AuRevoir - Mahinmi - others.
With Wall, I wouldn't really want a behemoth like Dwight or Mahinmi clogging things up.  Guess things weren't that bad with Gortat afterall (he was aging, but did set good screens and did solid rim running)

Quote
WASHINGTON (AP) — Scott Brooks knows he needs to try something to change the way things are going for his Washington Wizards. The problems are so plentiful, the coach just is not quite sure what to do.

All-Star guards John Wall and Bradley Beal lead the Wizards into their game against the visiting New York Knicks on Sunday with a 1-7 record, including 0-3 at home, and five consecutive losses overall.

“Patience is running low from everybody,” Beal said. “We’ve got to do it more collectively. The only way were going to get out of this slump is we’ve got to do it together.”

Their defense already was the worst in the NBA, giving up 122.4 points per game, before allowing even more than that in a 134-111 setback against Russell Westbrook and the Oklahoma City Thunder on Friday night.

“It just looks like nobody’s on the same page. I mean, like, if one person gets beat or somebody gives up a wide-open shot, nobody is there to help that person or pick that person up. Got to all be on one string,” Wall said. “You can’t teach effort. You can’t teach heart. You’ve got to go out there and compete. That’s just something you’ve got to be born with.”

The transition defense, in particular, is absent.
Washington’s rebounding isn’t much better.

Its second unit — which Brooks often deploys without a starter to lead the way — is slumping and turned a 30-all contest against OKC into a 79-50 blowout by halftime. Turnovers have become a real issue, with Beal and Wall combining for 12 on Friday.

So how will Brooks fix all of that?

“Everything’s open. We have to figure out ways to play better in all the 48 minutes that we’re on the floor, whether it’s going with a smaller rotation or it’s playing other guys. I have to figure it out,” he said. “We can’t just keep watching the same thing over and over and over and expect things are going to change.”

Against the Thunder, the Wizards led by 10 points in the first quarter, but were run off the court in the second, outscored by 24 in that period alone.

“That’s where they killed us,” Wall said. “When we’re not making shots, we don’t defend at a high level.”

this season is on the verge of spiraling out of control.
Last season, when Wall sat out 41 games because of a bad knee, Washington was the Eastern Conference’s No. 8 seed and lost in the first round of the playoffs to No. 1 seed Toronto. There were questions about chemistry, defense and rebounding.

Team architect Ernie Grunfeld hoped to help those last two areas by adding center Dwight Howard. But Howard wasn’t able to play in a Wizards uniform until Friday after dealing with a sore backside. And while his debut looked promising at the outset — 13 of his 20 points came in the first quarter — the result was the same for the team.

“Dwight,” Brooks noted, “was a bright spot.”
Those have been few and far between lately for the Wizards during what their coach called “a tough patch.”
That might be underselling it.
No one in the NBA has a worse record.

“We can’t keep looking at the negatives, negatives, negatives,” Beal said, “because it’s just going to continue to brainwash us and kill us mentally.”
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 03, 2018, 02:12:59 PM
If we defend ferociously, push the pace, and move the ball we have a good chance to beat those guys.

Jimmy Butler is keeping all NBA transactions on hold. 15-16 games in, so within another 2 weeks or so, something’s got to give.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 03, 2018, 02:20:05 PM
I think the answer for the WIZ is to start three guards
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on November 03, 2018, 02:30:10 PM
wiz could a team that blows it up.

so for my first trade off the year i offer EK and Frank for Wall.

on the face we are getting the star but we are also getting a 5 year contract.


Wiz get to rebuild.

we go into next year with Robinson
KP
Knox
Hardaway
Wall

and who knows who else.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on November 03, 2018, 03:27:57 PM
Quote from: Nagel on November 03, 2018, 02:30:10 PM
wiz could a team that blows it up.

so for my first trade off the year i offer EK and Frank for Wall.

on the face we are getting the star but we are also getting a 5 year contract.


Wiz get to rebuild.

we go into next year with Robinson
KP
Knox
Hardaway
Wall

and who knows who else.

Nagel

You want a Wall and to drain the Wiz?

I had you figured wrong.

I'm red-faced.

I understand that corruption and incompetence runs deep in DC, but I'm not sure its so prevalent it would allow the Wiz to ok a trade as 1-sided as that.

there's gotta be a HUGE kick-back, and I'm not seeing it.

Besides I'm pretty sure Chip won't allow the Knicks to trade the 1s you'd need to swap to snag one of the best PG in the league.

 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 03, 2018, 03:46:48 PM
Before we start fishing for him, let’s see what he has on the court compared to our pups. That is a lot of Chedder for what could continue to be prime Wall or not.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 03, 2018, 03:56:46 PM
We get 40+points from the wing, have 20 ish points of scoring reserve guards in Burke and Trier, guys who should get you a double double at the point along with some steals, pivots who together reliably score 20 and pull down 15 boards.

Aspects of Kanter’s defense are appreciably better when he’s not trying to preserve fouls. He’ll never be great at closing out, but if he can keep working in this direction, he can better hold on to his role and increase his market value.

Our two most talented fowards and most accomplished and experienced 3&D guy have yet to check in...
Title: Wizards
Post by: Kam on November 03, 2018, 05:47:02 PM
They will probably sign Enes in the offseason.

The Wizards have too much talent to not finish above .500
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on November 03, 2018, 05:50:31 PM
little knicks kick off tonight, anyone to watch?

https://westchester.gleague.nba.com/roster/ (https://westchester.gleague.nba.com/roster/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 03, 2018, 05:52:12 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 03, 2018, 03:56:46 PM


Our two most talented fowards and most accomplished and experienced 3&D guy have yet to check in...

Yup.  We haven't been whole all season.  Even the whole without KP hasn't been whole.

The trick for Fizz will be minutes for Knox, then Lee, then KP.

So if we are adding three to the rotation, three guys gotta lose minutes. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 03, 2018, 05:53:45 PM
Unless Knox really shits the bed I see Mario dropping out of the rotation at some point when KP returns.  You can't cater to everyone for minutes. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 03, 2018, 06:04:50 PM
If Trier doesn't make the All-Rookie First or Second Team then there shouldn't be an All-Rookie team.

This man can play.  He has forays to the hoop that are "All-Star" type moves. 
He can take any defender off the dribble "shakin and bakin" better than any current Knick (or Knick of recent vintage).

People are sleeping on Trier.  Not us.  But People.
Title: Dennis Smith is a Punk Ass
Post by: Kam on November 03, 2018, 06:17:05 PM
The officials may not have seen enough to call a flagrant but they could have assessed a technical for the push while Frank was in the air and the stepping over Frank as a taunt.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on November 03, 2018, 06:31:28 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on November 03, 2018, 03:27:57 PM
Quote from: Nagel on November 03, 2018, 02:30:10 PM
wiz could a team that blows it up.

so for my first trade off the year i offer EK and Frank for Wall.

on the face we are getting the star but we are also getting a 5 year contract.


Wiz get to rebuild.

we go into next year with Robinson
KP
Knox
Hardaway
Wall

and who knows who else.

Nagel

You want a Wall and to drain the Wiz?

I had you figured wrong.

I'm red-faced.

I understand that corruption and incompetence runs deep in DC, but I'm not sure its so prevalent it would allow the Wiz to ok a trade as 1-sided as that.

there's gotta be a HUGE kick-back, and I'm not seeing it.

Besides I'm pretty sure Chip won't allow the Knicks to trade the 1s you'd need to swap to snag one of the best PG in the league.

umm no #1 picks will be included.  Only Frank.  this is strictly a salary dump by the wiz getting out from the 160 million they owe him over the next 4 years.

in fact we might be overpaying.

this is just a musing.  more will come and none are that serious.

one thing is serious.

NY aced the fucking draft.

if the draft were held today Knox and Robinson might both be top 10 picks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 03, 2018, 06:35:20 PM
Miles Bridges looking every bit the top ten guy...

But its early
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 03, 2018, 06:53:43 PM
Embiid went for 39 & 17.
Took 23 FT'.
Now that's a game!

DET started the season with 4 W's; followed by 4 L's.
As usual they have a weak bench.
And their starting lineup seems shaky.
At least Blake is competing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on November 03, 2018, 07:43:42 PM
Quote from: Nagel on November 03, 2018, 06:31:28 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on November 03, 2018, 03:27:57 PM
Quote from: Nagel on November 03, 2018, 02:30:10 PM
wiz could a team that blows it up.

so for my first trade off the year i offer EK and Frank for Wall.

on the face we are getting the star but we are also getting a 5 year contract.


Wiz get to rebuild.

we go into next year with Robinson
KP
Knox
Hardaway
Wall

and who knows who else.

Nagel

You want a Wall and to drain the Wiz?

I had you figured wrong.

I'm red-faced.

I understand that corruption and incompetence runs deep in DC, but I'm not sure its so prevalent it would allow the Wiz to ok a trade as 1-sided as that.

there's gotta be a HUGE kick-back, and I'm not seeing it.

Besides I'm pretty sure Chip won't allow the Knicks to trade the 1s you'd need to swap to snag one of the best PG in the league.

umm no #1 picks will be included.  Only Frank.  this is strictly a salary dump by the wiz getting out from the 160 million they owe him over the next 4 years.

in fact we might be overpaying.

this is just a musing.  more will come and none are that serious.

one thing is serious.

NY aced the fucking draft.

if the draft were held today Knox and Robinson might both be top 10 picks.

nagel

EK and FF are not remotely enough in value to landing Wall.

This is a fantasy proposal without at least one unprotected lottery pick going back to the Wiz.

IMO the market for a player like Wall is deeper than you imagine with more than a few teams interested in a  AS-pg.

In any case Chip will be happy.
Title: Trades R Us--The Phool Jackass Chronicles
Post by: chipstern on November 03, 2018, 09:07:45 PM
A gift that keeps giving.

Phil Jackson. 

Remember the JR/Iman trade that got us Lance Thomas. 

Not much of a haul, eh?

Well, the good news is that Phool copped Cleveland's 2019 pick. 

The bad news? 

Phool traded that pick to Orlando for Kyle O'Quinn. 

Orlando has the right to swap picks and take the better of our two #2 picks. 

And next summer they can choose between Cleveland's #2

OR...

Houston's. 

To be a Knick fan is to suffer. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on November 03, 2018, 09:15:40 PM
G league now on twitch. Nets dominated up front. Monster game for Allan Williams 22-18, Jenkins scored 23 for lil knix who lost 114-105.
Title: Re: Trades R Us--The Phool Jackass Chronicles
Post by: Kam on November 03, 2018, 10:46:54 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 03, 2018, 09:07:45 PM
A gift that keeps giving.

Phil Jackson. 

Remember the JR/Iman trade that got us Lance Thomas. 

Not much of a haul, eh?

Well, the good news is that Phool copped Cleveland's 2019 pick. 

The bad news? 

Phool traded that pick to Orlando for Kyle O'Quinn. 

Orlando has the right to swap picks and take the better of our two #2 picks. 

And next summer they can choose between Cleveland's #2

OR...

Houston's. 

To be a Knick fan is to suffer.

Some of Jackson's finer moments.  O'Quinn was O'Kay for us.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 04, 2018, 01:39:31 AM
For the summer of 2019, assuming the Knicks find a way to be paying Trier Robinson money for as long as he’ll take, signing Vonleh for around 8 mil per, giving Lance his 1.5 mil prearranged buyout, and KP’s cap hold, we’ll be at 66-68 mil in salary on the books heading into the beginning of next season with rights to the following players,

Mitch
KP Vonleh
Knox Dotson
Hardaway Lee
Frank Trier Mudiay

A first and second round pick

We could give an enormous contract, extend KP, sign our draft picks and still have The biannual exception later in the process when team’s have hard time justifying paying guys they like at positions where they are committed to other guys and still be well under the tax threshold.

In the meantime, we’re surprisingly fun to watch and often competitive sometimes even against more polished, complete, and talented teams.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 04, 2018, 01:11:23 AM
Victor Oladipo and the Pacers pulled out a gritty one vs. the Celts.

Baynes shooting 3’s as well as he does makes quite a difference for how the C’s look.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 04, 2018, 02:59:34 AM
Suns release Tyson Chandler. He is looking to sign on with Lakers. McGee & Chandler is a very consistent very effective tandem on a team full of lob throwers.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on November 04, 2018, 09:19:09 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 04, 2018, 01:11:23 AM
Victor Oladipo and the Pacers pulled out a gritty one vs. the Celts.

Baynes shooting 3’s as well as he does makes quite a difference for how the C’s look.

Was a real good game. Back and forth, swapping leads for most of the 2nd half.

last minute it was KI and VO mano a mano.

Ironically KI made a couple of 3s in the final minute, but couldn't finish at the hoop on a tough back door reverse to seal the deal,

and then Victor shivved them with the 3. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 04, 2018, 09:33:21 AM
Tatum at 41%

Steals and blocks way down, turnovers way up.

Averaging just 5 boards his last five games
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 04, 2018, 09:33:59 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 04, 2018, 02:59:34 AM
Suns release Tyson Chandler. He is looking to sign on with Lakers. McGee & Chandler is a very consistent very effective tandem on a team full of lob throwers.

Lakers need shooters
Title: Re: Trades R Us--The Phool Jackass Chronicles
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 04, 2018, 09:38:16 AM
Quote from: chipstern on November 03, 2018, 09:07:45 PM
A gift that keeps giving.

Phil Jackson. 

Remember the JR/Iman trade that got us Lance Thomas. 

Not much of a haul, eh?

Well, the good news is that Phool copped Cleveland's 2019 pick. 

The bad news? 

Phool traded that pick to Orlando for Kyle O'Quinn. 

Orlando has the right to swap picks and take the better of our two #2 picks. 

And next summer they can choose between Cleveland's #2

OR...

Houston's. 

To be a Knick fan is to suffer.

I figured it out

Phil fucked Chip's sister and then never called

Only explanation for the continued vitriol against a guy who came back and tried to save a once proud franchise he once called home.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on November 04, 2018, 09:50:47 AM
Jackson's nobility only cost the Knicks 60 million.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on November 04, 2018, 10:01:21 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 04, 2018, 09:33:21 AM
Tatum at 41%

Steals and blocks way down, turnovers way up.

Averaging just 5 boards his last five games

Celtics offense in general is off, near the bottom of the league. Rotations and minutes are still being figured out. If i were to guess Marcus Morris is probably the only guy with YoY improvements. So I expect that will correct over time.

The team is 10 deep so Tatum is losing some opportunities, I expect that too will likely work out reaonably soon.

If it doesn't I exect to read a barrage of  posts which dump on Tatum.



Title: Re: Trades R Us--The Phool Jackass Chronicles
Post by: chipstern on November 04, 2018, 10:23:22 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 04, 2018, 09:38:16 AM
Quote from: chipstern on November 03, 2018, 09:07:45 PM
A gift that keeps giving.

Phil Jackson. 

Remember the JR/Iman trade that got us Lance Thomas. 

Not much of a haul, eh?

Well, the good news is that Phool copped Cleveland's 2019 pick. 

The bad news? 

Phool traded that pick to Orlando for Kyle O'Quinn. 

Orlando has the right to swap picks and take the better of our two #2 picks. 

And next summer they can choose between Cleveland's #2

OR...

Houston's. 

To be a Knick fan is to suffer.

I figured it out

Phil fucked Chip's sister and then never called

Only explanation for the continued vitriol against a guy who came back and tried to save a once proud franchise he once called home.

Don't have a sister. 

Fucked my brother.

Pausing only once to reload, fuck The Jizzer for 60 million on his way out the door, while enforcing a tired, outdated concept of triangular half court on a series ventriloquist dummies posing as coaches in the face of irrefutable evidence that the modern game had changed, saying he DIDN'T WANT ATHLETIC PLAYERS, then in a fit of pique, decided to destroy the trade value of our once a franchise player, then trade away our new franchise player because he hoit his fweelings. 

As you may or may not recall, I loved Phil Jackson, until he showed us all his ASS. 

PS: How did your sister like Phil's triangular dick?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on November 04, 2018, 10:41:49 AM
and I just took a quick look at Tatum's #s after 9 games.

talk about kid's cherry picking a small sample size.

if Tatum averages a few more steals and blocks over the next 9 games, that small bag of cherries might be seen another way

And for some reason kid seemed to exclude that Tatum's assists are WAY up.

and fwiw in 9 games Tatums ppg (15.8  ) is up versus last year (13.9)

lies, damn lies, stats...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 04, 2018, 10:56:25 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on November 04, 2018, 10:41:49 AM


if Tatum averages a few more steals and blocks over the next 9 games, that small bag of cherries might be seen another way





If ifs and buts were candy and nuts........

---

Re:  Tatum stats to date

With Heyward back you wouldnt thing Taco Jay would be shooting more - but he is (and again - 41% - Fultz territory)

To be fair, rebounds and assists are up.  As is the very impressive FT% (.88)


Win shares/48 (.117 from .139)  and VORP  (0.2 from 1.8) are of course down.  Maybe even Celts fans - the reasonable ones - expected that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 04, 2018, 11:02:55 AM
Tatum O/D rating

103/100

again - way down
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on November 04, 2018, 11:04:46 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 04, 2018, 10:56:25 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on November 04, 2018, 10:41:49 AM


if Tatum averages a few more steals and blocks over the next 9 games, that small bag of cherries might be seen another way





If ifs and buts were candy and nuts........

---

Re:  Tatum stats to date

With Heyward back you wouldnt thing Taco Jay would be shooting more - but he is (and again - 41% - Fultz territory)

To be fair, rebounds and assists are up.  As is the very impressive FT% (.88)


Win shares/48 (.117 from .139)  and VORP  (0.2 from 1.8) are of course down.  Maybe even Celts fans - the reasonable ones - expected that.

Word to the wise: So I understand you won't understand.

9 games is a small sample size to draw conclusions particularly with injured players being re-integrated into a deep team.

that is to say its all but meaningless to draw conclusions today about what you might find in January, April or June.

But i see after I called you out for your cherry picking, you've included a few more cherries in your bag, but those cherries are also kind of meaningless.

Again basketball is a team game, where skills are blended, and flaws hidden, its not a fantasy game where one player's #s are necessarily indicative of success.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 04, 2018, 11:08:51 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 04, 2018, 11:02:55 AM
Tatum O/D rating

103/100

again - way down

The point you are trying to make eludes me, homes?

Tatum is overrated? 

Uh huh. 

This from someone who obsessively posts about Glimmers of Jimmer piling up stats against Class A Podunk competition. 

If our own Kevin Knox evolves along the lines of the Celtics' Tatum I will be ecstatic. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 04, 2018, 11:21:56 AM
Yes.  Like many good players Tatum - who I have always liked and would have loved to be a Knick - is a bit overrated

In Boston it becomes more vast.  But thats fandom.  Look at Benintendi - they have him in the Hall already.
Title: Tatum
Post by: chipstern on November 04, 2018, 11:28:19 AM
Tatum is a prototypical big wing in the new look run and gun NBA. 

Unless I miss my guess, you do not share my enthusiasm for Danny Ainge and the deal he crafted in copping both Tatum and a #1 for Fultz.

Fultz looks to be coming along, but I make that trade 99 times out of 100. 

MEANWHILE: Warming up to Robinson & Trier yet? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on November 04, 2018, 11:43:41 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 04, 2018, 11:21:56 AM
Yes.  Like many good players Tatum - who I have always liked and would have loved to be a Knick - is a bit overrated

In Boston it becomes more vast.  But thats fandom.  Look at Benintendi - they have him in the Hall already.

Kid everyone on this forum knows you spent most of last year shitting on Tatum until it became more than obvious he was a player with a lot of talent and a huge upside.

So stop the BS.

and for this forum's reference kid crapped on Benintendi, a pretty good player, (and no one in Boston has him HoF bound) for the past 2 years.

It became a joke on the AL baseball forum, where after a 10D good play or he delivered a big hit, I would generally post  "10d sucks"

kid has a hard time owning his hot takes that are mind-numbingly dumb, but to his credit he keeps on pumping them out, and bullshitting about them when he's proven wrong.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 04, 2018, 12:20:16 PM
If only he could keep it to baseball and basketball...

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 04, 2018, 12:48:41 PM
I only caught the first half of IND-BOS.
Tatum looked pretty good, like usual.
Splashed ina  picture perfect elbow 3.  Came flying in form the weak side (the 3 point line where he had spotted up) for a rebound/putback jam.  And he played good defense.  Talented cat, a little less involved so far this year.

Whenever I see IND, Oladipo plays poorly.  He was 1-5 in the 1Q with 3 turnovers.  Did get some deflections and steals which he excels at.
Apparently he has bronchitis.  And came alive late, (which I missed).
Title: Re: Tatum
Post by: Nagel on November 04, 2018, 01:02:03 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 04, 2018, 11:28:19 AM
Tatum is a prototypical big wing in the new look run and gun NBA. 

Unless I miss my guess, you do not share my enthusiasm for Danny Ainge and the deal he crafted in copping both Tatum and a #1 for Fultz.

Fultz looks to be coming along, but I make that trade 99 times out of 100. 

MEANWHILE: Warming up to Robinson & Trier yet?

i sure am. .

Trier looks like the perfect weapon for the second team ( then again so does Dotson) and Robinson will be manning the middle for years ( he is 20) to come.

he is the true steal of the draft at 36.  he hasn't touched his potential as a rim protector and rebounder and allows KP to stay exactly where he should.

the 4. those two will make going to the rim very uncomfortable for a very long time.

Fizzle going to Robinson so early in the season let's EK know what's his future is.  his money is more important than him.  Robinson is relentless.  he goes after everything.  so much to learn.  so much time to learn it.he may still be growing.  he certainly will fill out. 

a win vs the Wiz will warm my cold heart and make me re-think my pre-season prediction.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 04, 2018, 01:11:54 PM
NBA is nicely built right now for Robinson

Not many post up guys being used as such

I would love to see some of these practices where he goes against Kanter.  That's great schooling.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 04, 2018, 01:25:15 PM
Bank is politicking re:  Tatum

He knows I only "shit on" Jayson as being the top overall pick in 2017.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on November 04, 2018, 01:30:56 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on October 26, 2018, 12:27:07 PM
Given that the aforementioned two guys were free and clear, and our guy hadn't actually achieved a whole lot outside of really pissing off Marc Gasol.

Casey was fired after Fiz was hired, so Casey was neither free nor clear.

I think Bud was the best coach for a team wishing to win now. But I love Fiz for a team trying to win two years from now.
Title: Re: Pharoah & BoD & Dawg
Post by: thebizneverloses on November 04, 2018, 01:37:37 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 27, 2018, 06:27:52 PM
If KZ comes back healthy, Knox has a strong year and the Knix seem able to sort out the PG situation, we get a high draft pick, Knix might have a slight chance of landing KD.

I think in order for KD to come here, the following must happen:

- Ntilikina looks like an all-D type player with a passable enough offensive game to not be simply another MKG
- KP shows enough this year to give confidence he'll be an all-star again next year
- Knox goes for 20+ a few times, showing he can fill it up
- Lee comes back healthy, plays a bit, and is traded for a lump of coal expiring contract OR (less likely) Timmy is moved in a cap-clearing move
- Goodbye Baker, Mudiay, Kanter, Hezonja
- Vonleh sticks around, barely has a cap hold so no worries. Same with Dotson. And obviously Iso Zo
- Hardwood Mitch! remains a phenomenon (h/t Kam)
- Knicks players gush over Fiz
- Knicks get one of RJ, Little, or Reddish or another player with potential as both a defender and playmaker (don't think, say, Bol or Zion make sense around a Durant/Porzingis pair)
- Warriors win, but Lebron looks happy enough in LA that Durant sees the appeal of joining up with a bunch of kids and being king of the coast.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on November 04, 2018, 01:40:41 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 27, 2018, 08:06:12 PM
Looking like Ainge may have to cash in his prime draft pick mid season

Just not the same C's.  Not sure Hayward will be any help til next year, if that

Best D in the league. Look to me like the second best team in the East come playoff time. They're still scary, and they haven't even traded Rozier/Smart/Kings/Grizz/Clippers pick or whatever.

(Should Ainge offer Hayward, Thies and the Kings pick for Butler and Dieng?)
Title: Re: Burke
Post by: thebizneverloses on November 04, 2018, 01:42:14 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 30, 2018, 01:02:51 PM
Not too concerned about Burke's future with the team.

Here is the list of guys, in least order of concern of losing:

Hicks
Kornet
Mudiay
Baker
Lee
Hey,ZoneUp
Thomas
Kanter
Burke
Hardaway Jr.
Vonleh
Iso Zo
Dotson
Hardwood Mitch
Knox
Frank
KP

I can't quibble more than one spot about any of these guys. Even if, say, Timmy has been the best player, once you factor in age and contract this makes sense.

(Exception being Lee should be last. We need the cap space)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on November 04, 2018, 01:42:34 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 01, 2018, 01:13:47 PM
I don't like Kant & Zonja out there at the same time.

Fiz has to move away from this. It's hard on the eyes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on November 04, 2018, 01:48:45 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 24, 2018, 02:59:27 PM
You were ahead of the bell curve on Jaylen Brown as well. 

Over the past year people have made suggestions that both Jaylen and Tatum were somehow discoveries after they were drafted. Both guys entered their lone years of college as the TOP prospect on DraftExpress (the bible of draft rankings). They both slipped to third, but these guys were known blue chippers, I don't know, 18-months before they were drafted. They've turned out to be who they were supposed to be.

Title: Re: COUGH
Post by: thebizneverloses on November 04, 2018, 01:49:24 PM
Best one-liners while I was gone:

Quote from: chipstern on November 03, 2018, 01:19:25 AM
Jimmer Fredette
0 points, 0 boards, 0 assists

Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 28, 2018, 01:12:40 PM
Usually when the coach leaves the assistant goes with him.

Lue didnt go to LA....

Quote from: bodiddley on October 30, 2018, 12:32:36 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on October 30, 2018, 12:29:20 AM
Who’s Burkina Fatso? I mean Burke ain’t fat, is he?

He is a little around his upper volta ....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 04, 2018, 02:27:21 PM
Cap saving?

Heh

You trade Hardaway and you will be looking for a Hardaway.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on November 04, 2018, 02:48:35 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 04, 2018, 01:25:15 PM
Bank is politicking re:  Tatum

He knows I only "shit on" Jayson as being the top overall pick in 2017.

kid-The only one spinning here is you. There are no politics involved at all.

You shit on Tatum, and noted and seemingly took pleasure in noting every off night Tatum had last year, much as you did earlier today noting (and cherry-picking) his 9-game stats.

I've no idea why you do it, as its just dumb, but you're just a kid.

And he wasn't the top pick last year, Fultz was. And then your boy Lonzo. And then Tatum.

As to the best pick in '17, you should probably wait a couple of years, you'll have a better idea then as some muscle and maturity are added to the potential.

You're welcome
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 04, 2018, 03:11:07 PM
Did I ever say a player picked after 3 was better than Tatum?

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on November 04, 2018, 04:07:36 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on November 04, 2018, 03:11:07 PM
Did I ever say a player picked after 3 was better than Tatum?

Kid you are conflating two issues.

1) you were pumping Lonzo harder than his old man or his girl friend as ROY and best player in draft

2) you were continually dumping on Tatum

these are separate issues.

And i've no idea if you posted or felt anyone picked after Tatum was better than Tatum, but given your continual misplaced criticisms of Tatum, it would not surprise me if you did.

and kid I comped Tatum's 9 games counting stats this year v last year, and

points 142-123  (15.8-13.7)
boards 69-59     (7.7-6.6)
assists 23-17      (2.6-1.9)
steals 5-6
blocks 4-8
TO 18-19

so wouldn't you agree its fairer to say his #s in general have increased apples to apples, with steals and blocks off?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 04, 2018, 04:58:19 PM
Game preview:

https://wizofawes.com/2018/11/04/washington-wizards-wizards-look-to-bounce-back-vs-new-york-knicks/ (https://wizofawes.com/2018/11/04/washington-wizards-wizards-look-to-bounce-back-vs-new-york-knicks/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 04, 2018, 05:11:15 PM
Knicks win could spell trouble for Brooks

https://wizofawes.com/2018/11/03/washington-wizards-3-takeaways-wizards-loss-vs-oklahoma-city-thunder/2/ (https://wizofawes.com/2018/11/03/washington-wizards-3-takeaways-wizards-loss-vs-oklahoma-city-thunder/2/)

Title: Enes The Menace
Post by: chipstern on November 04, 2018, 07:01:57 PM
Most everyone on this forum has Enes booked on a garbage trawler headed for Jimmerland.

Meanwhile, without Kanter's 10 & 7, and we're behind by 20 instead of ten.

Be careful what you wish for. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 04, 2018, 07:12:59 PM
Datsun kept us in it. Nice 2Q.

I liked Zonja pushing the ball after rebounds.
Which led to a last second bucket for Dot.

not sure why a banged up hardaway was out there immobile.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 04, 2018, 07:58:45 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on November 04, 2018, 02:27:21 PM
You trade Hardaway and you will be looking for a Hardaway.

Might not have to look too far  . . .
Title: Second Unit
Post by: chipstern on November 04, 2018, 08:01:04 PM
Knicks within three. 

Let's make a game of it, guys. 

Second Unit

Kanter-Hezonja-Trier-Mudiay-Burke

Go figure. 

Good to see Mario getting boards and assists. 

Let the game come to you, kid.  Nothing to prove.  Don't force things.  Make plays.  Shots will come.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 05, 2018, 01:51:25 AM
Young pups will foul especially against vet teams. It’s going to be a big part of keeping tank hopes alive.

I think Vonleh can chill out and he can find a way to play aggressively without commission of fouls.

Mitch showed the rawness as well, as did Frank.

Dotson was very steady.

If the team is smart, Hardaway will sit tomorrow and possibly for a while after that. It gives a window to evaluate guards further down our rotation.

We slowed it down against Washington. This was the closest I’ve seen to a Jeff Hornacek offense this year. We also let them chase our handoff actions way higher than normal due to a combination of bad screens and bad setups. Skilled vets made us pay.

On to the Bulls and hopefully a better result.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 05, 2018, 06:39:46 AM
Putting Hardaway back in Fizzled.
And might mean that he can't go for next game.
Clyde&Breen kept talking about how Tim didn't look right for about 6 mins of play in the 2Q after Tim came back in.  Not smart.
We have a deep team and can absorb losses.  they should have played it safe.  Or taken him out when it was clear he was stiff.  back troubles are limiting in all aspects.

Knix really need to limit the fouls, especially the useless ones.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 05, 2018, 07:02:41 AM
Vonleh needs to play smarter on D.
Taking himself out of games with his fouls.

Mud had a messy game.

Datsun looked good.
Tryer with fire.  Gotta like the kid standing up to Wall and others.
Got a bit emotional, but kept it in check and played hard.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 05, 2018, 08:41:00 AM
Struggling Wizards D holds scattered Knicks to 95

Pfffffffffffttttttttttt........
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 05, 2018, 09:02:02 AM
"Mud had a messy game"

90-86 Wiz

Substitution - Ntilikina enters game for Mudiay

NOT a point guard
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 05, 2018, 10:23:51 AM
Did you see Mud nearly toss away 4 passes in a short span?  And lose his dribble.  Mud did steal a real lazy Wiz backcourt pass.  And got 3 FT's when Jeff Green decided to foul him on a late closeout.  Which somewhat redeemed an otherwise very poor outing.  Mud also looks chunky again. Green mostly had a good game, but I never trust that guy's head.

Franc didn't do much and missed 3 treys mid to late 4Q.
Those plus a Kanter missed 3 meant a lot of empty trips for NYK.
I also think Franc's defense gets overpraised.  He takes good angles, tries to get over picks mostly, but is foul prone and gets caught napping at times.

Clock's ticking on Mud's career . . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on November 05, 2018, 11:19:07 AM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on November 04, 2018, 02:27:21 PM
Cap saving?

Heh

You trade Hardaway and you will be looking for a Hardaway.

Actually if you trade Hardaway and Courtly and draft one of RJ/Reddish/Little, renounce all FAs but Vonleh, Dotson and Trier, you have enough money to sign Kemba (Bronx stand up!) and Kevin Durant.

Kemba/RJ/KD/KP/Big Meech with Franc/Trier/Knox/Vonleh/MLE signing off the bench works.

This is an example of a deal which gets you far enough under the cap to try:

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ybt293hk  (http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ybt293hk)

or

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y83nakcf  (http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y83nakcf)  (this version saves the Kings $7m this year which they can use to take on other teams' contracts along with 1st rounders)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 05, 2018, 12:10:19 PM
Early whistles on both ends got us second guessing everything which is no way to play. Communicationon the floor wasn’t there for us to pick it back up. This won’t be the last time our starters pick up quick fouls, though please let’s work on that also, so we need to address refocusing on the fly or things will be prone to fall apart under pressure. It’s something teams and players have to learn.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 05, 2018, 01:08:12 PM
Floor games vs Wiz


ALONSO TRIER  - assists - 0  turnovers - 3

Noah Vonleh -   assists - 0  turnovers - 1

Enes Kanter  - assists  0   turnovers  1

Mitchell Robinson -   a - 0   t -  0

Baker -   a - 0   t - 0

Kornet -   a - 0    t - 0

Thomas -   a - 0   t - 0

Frank Ntilikina  -   a - 4  t - 4

Trey Burke -  a - 3  t - 3

Dameyan Dotson -  a - 2  t - 2

TIM HARDAWAY -   a - 4  t - 1

Mario Hezonja -   a - 3  t - 1

EMMANUEL MUDIAY -   a - 3  t - 2




Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 05, 2018, 01:14:15 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 05, 2018, 10:23:51 AM
Did you see Mud nearly toss away 4 passes in a short span?  And lose his dribble.  Mud did steal a real lazy Wiz backcourt pass.  And got 3 FT's when Jeff Green decided to foul him on a late closeout.  Which somewhat redeemed an otherwise very poor outing.  Mud also looks chunky again. Green mostly had a good game, but I never trust that guy's head.

Franc didn't do much and missed 3 treys mid to late 4Q.
Those plus a Kanter missed 3 meant a lot of empty trips for NYK.
I also think Franc's defense gets overpraised.  He takes good angles, tries to get over picks mostly, but is foul prone and gets caught napping at times.

Clock's ticking on Mud's career . . .

Mudiay showed a bit that he is the infusion we need.

Chunky - or solidly fit/strong?  We will see in time. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on November 05, 2018, 02:08:53 PM
So who gets cut to make sure IsoZo can stay with the team full-time? Baker, Mudiay, or Kornet?

I'll stick with my summer prediction that it will be Baker who makes way for Trier. But it might be Kornet if the Knicks really think Porzingis is coming back before the all-star break.
Title: Signs we are competing
Post by: Kam on November 05, 2018, 02:44:39 PM
The Knicks have been at least tied in the final frame in six of their seven losses but ultimately collapsed.

Sounds like we are one KP away....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 05, 2018, 02:45:38 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on November 05, 2018, 02:08:53 PM
So who gets cut to make sure IsoZo can stay with the team full-time? Baker, Mudiay, or Kornet?


Kornet will finally be Chop Suey
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 05, 2018, 02:52:23 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 05, 2018, 01:08:12 PM
Floor games vs Wiz


When you introduce a new PG (EM) into the mix now everyone is afraid of making a mistake lest they lose minutes,  and they begin thinking too much instead of just playing and their floor games can suffer accordingly.

I hope Fizz settles on 2 guys at the PG.  Not all 3.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 05, 2018, 03:04:33 PM
Looks pretty much decided.

Last night Burke played 20 minutes and Mudiay 22.

Expect this to push up and maybe beyond 48 total.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 05, 2018, 03:05:55 PM
Frank, AT, Dotson and THJ split the 2/3 minutes

I dont expect to see Courtney Lee suit up this year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 05, 2018, 03:07:52 PM
Baker is something like 7th or 8th G, pretty much 5th SG.
Contract only thing keeping him around.
Also, work ethic.

Kornet?
Can always practice and have him int he KZ role for future preparedness.  He's the weakest link, but young and his position not as clogged.  Though he doesn't see any court time.

Mud, Knix still evaluating and he could possibly be thrown into a deal as a sweetener. 


Quote
It's becoming increasingly clear that when you hear a Cavs veteran talk about younger players not knowing their role, or knowing how to win, or what to do on the court, they mean Sexton. Throughout the organization, the line on Sexton is that he does not 'know how to play.' He doesn't know how to defend the pick and roll. He doesn't know how to set up teammates as a point guard... They know he's 19 and he only played one year of college ball. They still think he's a nice kid. But they see his deficiencies, they know he's going to be on the court, and they're discouraged when after these losses, he doesn't seem bothered by them."

Sexton is just 19 years old, and there is still a long way to go before the verdict is out on him as an NBA player. However, it is clear that dysfunction is currently permeating throughout the Cavs organization, and such a situation won't do anything to help his development in the league.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 05, 2018, 03:13:13 PM
Cavs seek the high pick, its become apparent after the Love injury.

Wont use Sexton to start games, choosing to crash and burn with the plodding George Hill.

They want Collin to cry after games? 
Title: Splits - After 10 Games
Post by: Kam on November 05, 2018, 03:55:19 PM
Tim Hardaway Jr.  @ Home   28.2 ppg  4.2 apg  44% FG  43% 3G
Tim Hardaway Jr.  on ROAD  18.4 ppg  2.4 apg  39% FG  36% 3G

Enes Kanter @ Home  12 rpg
Enes Kanter on ROAD   9 rpg

Frank Ntilikina @ Home  3 apg
Frank Ntilikina on ROAD 5 apg

So Junior is an All-Star at MSG and not so good elsewhere.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 05, 2018, 04:11:41 PM
Small Sample Size Theater

I do find it interesting when guys put up H/R splits like that for the whole season.  Partying?  Running another family on the side? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 05, 2018, 05:33:52 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 05, 2018, 03:13:13 PM
Cavs seek the high pick, its become apparent after the Love injury.

Wont use Sexton to start games, choosing to crash and burn with the plodding George Hill.

They want Collin to cry after games?

The same George Hill you wished Phil had signed? 

Imagine that. 

THANK GOD WE DIDN'T END UP WITH SEXTON
Title: Chop Suey
Post by: chipstern on November 05, 2018, 05:34:44 PM
Luke on his way to Westchester
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 05, 2018, 05:53:49 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 05, 2018, 05:33:52 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 05, 2018, 03:13:13 PM
Cavs seek the high pick, its become apparent after the Love injury.

Wont use Sexton to start games, choosing to crash and burn with the plodding George Hill.

They want Collin to cry after games?

The same George Hill you wished Phil had signed? 

Imagine that. 

THANK GOD WE DIDN'T END UP WITH SEXTON

We had a team.  They dont

Hill fits well with a team like SA or with a guy like LeBron.

Sexton should be fine

Or are you judging him my what two Cleveland vets say?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 05, 2018, 05:58:30 PM
Would have been a good Knick

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/divindo01.html (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/divindo01.html)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 05, 2018, 07:25:44 PM
 Trier gets the start.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 05, 2018, 07:33:09 PM
Knox is active.  As is Hardaway. 

Heard a cool stat on THJ

Only SIX players have had a full season of what THJ is currently doing

40% 3 point with 25.8 pts per 36 minutes

Any guesses?  3 are active.
Title: Trier starts
Post by: Kam on November 05, 2018, 07:41:08 PM
Junior available off the bench
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 05, 2018, 07:44:49 PM
Robinson wins tap from Carter Jr.

That settles it.
Title: Knick Kryptonite
Post by: Kam on November 05, 2018, 09:08:52 PM
Mudiay is Ntilikina Kryptonite.
Title: Trade
Post by: Kam on November 05, 2018, 09:30:49 PM
Mudiay for Sexton should make the Cavs happy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 05, 2018, 09:38:06 PM
Quick - who was the last Knick with a 20-20-5 game?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 05, 2018, 09:39:33 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 05, 2018, 09:38:06 PM
Quick - who was the last Knick with a 20-20-5 game?

DLEE?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 05, 2018, 09:47:13 PM
Damn - fat guy is quick.
Title: Faces of former Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 05, 2018, 09:59:46 PM
Holiday and Fropez!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 05, 2018, 10:15:26 PM
THIS will be brutal
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 05, 2018, 10:16:55 PM
Thought Bulls might be given the ball back on inadvertent whistle.

And Kanter for the win.................

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on November 05, 2018, 10:31:57 PM
crazy game
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 05, 2018, 10:33:59 PM
Mudiay taketh and he giveth
Title: Good fun game after a dreary first half
Post by: Kam on November 05, 2018, 10:37:56 PM
And we got the lottery win.

Both teams without all their top guns.

A battle of wills at the end.

Lavine is better at what Trier does best.
Title: Trier commanding double teams
Post by: Kam on November 05, 2018, 10:42:51 PM
I think it was smart for Hoiberg to send doubles at Allonzo from the very first possession.  It prevented him from getting a hot hand early.
Title: Mario
Post by: Kam on November 05, 2018, 10:44:02 PM
Did he have a good game or a bad game?  Missed the gimme to win in regulation.   Shot poorly.   Scored a little.
Title: Knicks Tank game is rollin
Post by: Kam on November 05, 2018, 10:47:49 PM
Giving Ws to the two teams below us in the standings, WAS and CHI

<smart>
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 06, 2018, 12:06:51 AM
On track for 22 wins. I forget, who's got 22?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 06, 2018, 12:27:14 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on November 06, 2018, 12:06:51 AM
On track for 22 wins. I forget, who's got 22?

KP isn't missing the whole year tho...  so 22 sounds low.

We have lost some games in which KP might have been the difference.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on November 06, 2018, 12:59:14 AM
That was the worst-played 2OT game I've ever seen. Clyde and Breen were aghast at all the turnovers (especially the sequence where everyone kept stepping out of bounds).

Mudiay's best game as a Knick, maybe as an NBA player? Bad D at the end, of course. Burke looks like the odd man out if Fiz takes a liking to Mudiay, at least when Knox and THJr are back. Baker will be cut.

Kanter just a monster. He certainly has a claim to more minutes.

If Hezonja can't get too much run with Knox and THJr out, he's going to struggle for big minutes all season.

That was a bad loss to a bad team. Good for the tank, but disappointing to watch.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 06, 2018, 02:27:48 AM
I’m a little impressed that we got back in it at all. But the Bulls were being pretty awful. A good game to have behind us.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 06, 2018, 04:35:47 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on November 06, 2018, 12:06:51 AM
On track for 22 wins. I forget, who's got 22?

No one.
I should have taken the empty slot, but I said 23 in a hurry, since we were already 1-0 when I got back from vacation, and I didn't look at carefully at the prediction list.

I need to check, but doesn't our schedule turn massively ugly soon?
And if our record goes deep in the tank, we'll probably be more cautious about bringing KZ back. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 06, 2018, 04:50:18 AM
Hopefully we’re equally cautious regardless of record. Don’t play him when he’s back, play him when he’s better.

Dotson should have had more touches tonight.

We’re also way to slow advancing the ball and getting into our sets. It makes life so easy for the D.

We also stand around way more than cut away, cut through, or screen away to open up someone else’s run.

I’m glad Vonleh controlled his fouls today.

Goose eggs from our 20 year olds and we still made it to two OT’s and we’re .2 seconds away from a third.

It’s exciting down here in lotto land.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 06, 2018, 08:12:49 AM
2 sub .500 teams are currently playoff bound in the EAST.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 06, 2018, 08:59:40 AM
"bad loss to a bad team"

Well, let's see.....

Bulls have beaten

HORNETS, HAWKS , KNICKS

Bulls have lost to 

HORNETS (road), WARRIORS, SIXERS, PISTONS (by 2), MAVS (road), ROCKETS, PACERS (by 2), NUGGETS (by 1)

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 06, 2018, 09:31:01 AM
D'Angelo update:

https://nothinbutnets.com/2018/11/06/brooklyn-nets-dangelo-russell-see/ (https://nothinbutnets.com/2018/11/06/brooklyn-nets-dangelo-russell-see/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 06, 2018, 09:53:32 AM
https://twitter.com/fakeshoredrive/status/1059580897492721664 (https://twitter.com/fakeshoredrive/status/1059580897492721664)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on November 06, 2018, 10:53:46 AM
Second game in a row that the Celts pissed away the hard work and the lead built by the starters in Q1. Murray dropped 48 on them and killed them in the 4Q , but this game was really lost by the bench in Q2.

They got biology nailed, theres a lot of good genes out there, but the chemistry is off, particularly on offense.

Ball movement and spacing is key, but once they get into hero ball, bad things happen. 

And for reasons not entirely clear, they don't get to the line.

Yeah, I know they shoot (and so far miss) a lot of 3s, but they're not getting calls, paint to rim, they should get.

its the loser's lament.

Brad got some more tinkering and homework to do.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 06, 2018, 12:02:14 PM
Shout out to the now THIRTY year old Danilo Gallinari - for his fine first ten games for the 6-4 Clippers

Shooting 45/46/98 - yielding 20 ppg in 29 minutes.

Hoping Gallo has an extended run of excellent health after just 21 games a year back.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 06, 2018, 12:12:25 PM
Bulls are pretty similar to the Knix.
LeVine - Hardaway
Markaanen - KZ
Carter Jr - Knox

Blakenay - Trier
Hutchinson - Dotson
Payne - Franc
Dunn - Burke

Portis - Vonleh

We don't have a Parker, they don't have a Kanter.
Our other depth is better than theirs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 06, 2018, 12:30:32 PM
Carter-Knox, eh?

I dont know......

Hutchison-Knox....

And Holiday-Dotson

Do they have a Mudiay?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 06, 2018, 12:50:00 PM
Bulls and Knicks both recently moved on from All-Stars (Butler, Melo) but the Bulls star was still young and the return was better.  We are still in the Melo-salary epoch as we mostly transferred his money to Mudiay and Kanter.  Once we roll out of the shadow of that dead money (both Mudiay and Kanter will be renounced, recanted, and possibly repatriated) we will be masters of our own destiny.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 06, 2018, 01:10:55 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 06, 2018, 12:50:00 PM
Bulls and Knicks both recently moved on from All-Stars (Butler, Melo) but the Bulls star was still young and the return was better.  We are still in the Melo-salary epoch as we mostly transferred his money to Mudiay and Kanter.  Once we roll out of the shadow of that dead money (both Mudiay and Kanter will be renounced, recanted, and possibly repatriated) we will be masters of our own destiny.

You know, your snark regarding Mudiay and Kanter has gotten really stale. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 06, 2018, 01:15:34 PM
I forgot, they're unassailable.  Did you ever take your action figures out to play or did you keep them in their original packaging?  I say the latter.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 06, 2018, 01:39:50 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 06, 2018, 01:10:55 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 06, 2018, 12:50:00 PM
Bulls and Knicks both recently moved on from All-Stars (Butler, Melo) but the Bulls star was still young and the return was better.  We are still in the Melo-salary epoch as we mostly transferred his money to Mudiay and Kanter.  Once we roll out of the shadow of that dead money (both Mudiay and Kanter will be renounced, recanted, and possibly repatriated) we will be masters of our own destiny.

You know, your snark regarding Mudiay and Kanter has gotten really stale.

Cant wait to see the lines he spouts if Mudiay works his way into a long term deal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 06, 2018, 01:46:18 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 06, 2018, 12:50:00 PM
(both Mudiay and Kanter will be renounced, recanted, and possibly repatriated) we will be masters of our own destiny.

Kanter won't be going back to Turkey anytime soon.
They'd toss him in jail along with the tens of thousands of other political prisoners.  And he'd be lucky if that is all that would happen.
Not sure of his exact status, think he has a US green card or will get it soonish.  Turkey revoked his passport (when he was abroad in Europe).

Mud might be playing in China in the near future, but won't likely be back in Congo.

Did nobody comment on Kanter's bench 20/20?
He was killing Feliciano.  Surprised Bulls didn't go to Lopez sooner.

Man, those OT periods were hugely ugly.
Mud and Zonja continue to be mistake players, but they do show flashes here and there.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 06, 2018, 02:51:05 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 06, 2018, 01:46:18 PM

Mud and Zonja continue to be mistake players, but they do show flashes here and there.

That's what mistake players do.  They do something to get the viewer to go ... "hey that was good -- " and then 20 seconds later you're cursing at your TV in an alien language.
Title: Kam Sandwich
Post by: chipstern on November 06, 2018, 05:12:16 PM
Enes notches a 20 & 20 and Kam is unimpressed. 

________________

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 06, 2018, 05:53:44 PM
Breen said it was the first 20/20 off the bench since Barkley in 1986.
Kant did play 41 mins, but had the 20/20 before the 2nd OT.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on November 06, 2018, 08:54:20 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 06, 2018, 02:51:05 PM
-- " and then 20 seconds later you're cursing at your TV in an alien language.


That could be Farsi (you?), Brazilian Portuguese (Kaminheiro) or Spanish (me and Chico Cartero).

PS. Enes Kanter is a very good player, a very nice guy, and I want to keep him as a Knick. Maybe if we call him Kamter then Kam would come around to root for him?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 06, 2018, 09:32:20 PM
Enes likely gonna be gone. He wants to play and win games. Fiz's priority isn't the latter.
Title: Re: Kam Sandwich
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 06, 2018, 09:40:44 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 06, 2018, 05:12:16 PM
Enes notches a 20 & 20 and Kam is unimpressed. 

________________

Kam's a joke

What else is there to say?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 06, 2018, 10:08:33 PM
ohhhhhhh boy

Knox is better that THIS GUY?

https://twitter.com/BleacherReport/status/1059969821104918528 (https://twitter.com/BleacherReport/status/1059969821104918528)
Title: Ekant be all bad
Post by: Kam on November 06, 2018, 10:17:36 PM
I'm just saying you're going to have your heart broke when we let him go.

Celebrate him. A two-season Knick at most.  Why would he come back here after we let him go?
Title: Re: Ekant be all bad
Post by: facilitatorn on November 07, 2018, 04:10:47 AM
Quote from: Kam on November 06, 2018, 10:17:36 PM
I'm just saying you're going to have your heart broke when we let him go.

Celebrate him. A two-season Knick at most.  Why would he come back here after we let him go?

Also, no matter what stats he puts up there is simply no way to get any value for him. We might as well enjoy him while he’s here.

Bridges has nice shooting percentages, but he’s not exactly lighting the world on fire. He’s also got Kemba, Nic, and Tony setting him up which doesn’t hurt. Knox has played through 3 games not counting the one he got hurt in or his time against the Bulls. Let them both get a few more games in at least before making comparisons.
Title: Re: Ekant be all bad
Post by: chipstern on November 07, 2018, 08:27:22 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 07, 2018, 04:10:47 AM
Quote from: Kam on November 06, 2018, 10:17:36 PM
I'm just saying you're going to have your heart broke when we let him go.

Celebrate him. A two-season Knick at most.  Why would he come back here after we let him go?

Also, no matter what stats he puts up there is simply no way to get any value for him. We might as well enjoy him while he’s here.

Bridges has nice shooting percentages, but he’s not exactly lighting the world on fire. He’s also got Kemba, Nic, and Tony setting him up which doesn’t hurt. Knox has played through 3 games not counting the one he got hurt in or his time against the Bulls. Let them both get a few more games in at least before making comparisons.

I saw Bridges play in Charlotte against the Thunder, and he has a nice motor and big time hops. 

Was on the outside looking in as far as the team's set offense, and anything he did was opportunistic in terms of offensive boards and the like. 

Looking at him longingly while seemingly dismissing Knox is all too typical of our Brother Kiid, who having most recently lamented what a nice Knick DiVincenzo would've made [nicer than Demyean Dotson or Allonzo Trier?], floats the notion that somehow we blew it in selecting Knox. 

I eagerly await Kiid's posts about how we should have traded up to select Wagner ahead of Robinson. 

Sigh. 

A pattern seems to emerge, no?  A Rhapsody In Beige. 

Bridges was most definitely on our radar screen at #9, as was the equally impressive Wendell Carter, had he fallen to us. 

In point of fact [FACT], it was how Knox comported himself and competed in a pre-draft scrimmage against Bridges himself that sealed the deal as far as Fizdale-Perry-Mills were concerned. 

Would I have been chill with Miles Bridges?

Most def. 

Do I think he is "better" than Knox? 

No. 

And at 6'7" 220, compared to the 6'9" 215 Knox? 

Alas, one cannot draft EVERYONE. 

Dismissing  Knox based on a sample of what, three games. 

Get a grip dude. 

PS: You want to project a player to target for these Lottery Bound Knicks in the age of positionless hoops, to pair up front with KP & KK?  ZION WILLIAMSON.  My...GOD.  Puts me in mind of Larry Johnson and Hank Gathers and Grant Hill. 

PPS: Nagel & Kam & Biz & Dawg are all tight with THE DIVINE.  By all means, ratchet up the level of prayer, petition for a Top Three Pick and prepare human sacrifices if needs be. 

Zion...Zion...ZION...OOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMM....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 07, 2018, 08:48:52 AM
Trade DOWN was the idea (fpr Donte plus).  But I dont know who was dealing up to 9.

And I was surprised LA didnt take Robinson.  I think it was a worry about maturity.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 07, 2018, 09:12:18 AM
Watched a fair amount of WAS-DAL.
Neither team looked good.
But at least Mavs played together.

Wiz just go one on one and take the first shot available every time.
Their transition D is terrible (especially Wall who does that Wade mopey thing before deciding maybe to get back).

Wall-Beal-Porter-Morris-Dwight should be a Top starting unit.
But alas no unity.  Really, none of those 5 have any chemistry with any other, and you have to lay a lot of that on Wall.  maybe Coach Brooks too. 

And their bench is ragged and bad.  I like Oubre, but he can be mistake prone, and has that same individual attacking style that permeates WASH.  Jeff Green unreliable.  AuRevoir another out-for-himself type.  Satoransky marginal.  Mahinmi afoul prone stiff.

Porter might be their only team player ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 07, 2018, 09:14:08 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 07, 2018, 08:48:52 AM
Trade DOWN was the idea (fpr Donte plus).  But I dont know who was dealing up to 9.

And I was surprised LA didnt take Robinson.  I think it was a worry about maturity.

Pretty precipitous drop in talent at/after #14 where Porter was was taken.  DiV at #17.

If Porter pans out, which seems like a pretty good bet, Denver could be sitting in tall cotton.

I like Donte, but not THAT MUCH. 

Don't see anything from #9 onwards that I like as much as Knox.   And I was pretty enthusiastic about the Villinova Bridges. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 07, 2018, 09:38:33 AM
A little surprised WIZ didnt unleash Chasson Randle last night after he scored 37 in G League debut.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 07, 2018, 09:45:10 AM
That'd be something at least.
But isn't he another one-on-one guy?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 07, 2018, 01:01:19 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 07, 2018, 09:12:18 AM
Mahinmi afoul prone stiff.


Getting paid like a super-villain and taken two spots before we selected David Lee in 2005.

It is good to be tall.
Title: Re: Ekant be all bad
Post by: Kam on November 07, 2018, 01:02:57 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 07, 2018, 04:10:47 AM
Quote from: Kam on November 06, 2018, 10:17:36 PM
I'm just saying you're going to have your heart broke when we let him go.

Celebrate him. A two-season Knick at most.  Why would he come back here after we let him go?

Also, no matter what stats he puts up there is simply no way to get any value for him. We might as well enjoy him while he’s here.


I enjoy enes when he isn't pouting over not starting.  He's young and enjoying life.   I envy him. 
Title: Re: Ekant be all bad
Post by: lesterluv on November 07, 2018, 01:51:17 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 07, 2018, 01:02:57 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 07, 2018, 04:10:47 AM
Quote from: Kam on November 06, 2018, 10:17:36 PM
I'm just saying you're going to have your heart broke when we let him go.

Celebrate him. A two-season Knick at most.  Why would he come back here after we let him go?

Also, no matter what stats he puts up there is simply no way to get any value for him. We might as well enjoy him while he’s here.


I enjoy enes when he isn't pouting over not starting.  He's young and enjoying life.   I envy him.

That's cause apparently you're stupid as fuck and have neither talent nor ambition.
If you are a skilled competitive athlete you want to play and to win.
We should trade or cut Enes before it blows up. Current situation serves nobody.
Title: Re: Ekant be all bad
Post by: carlos123 on November 07, 2018, 02:19:50 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on November 07, 2018, 01:51:17 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 07, 2018, 01:02:57 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 07, 2018, 04:10:47 AM
Quote from: Kam on November 06, 2018, 10:17:36 PM
I'm just saying you're going to have your heart broke when we let him go.

Celebrate him. A two-season Knick at most.  Why would he come back here after we let him go?

Also, no matter what stats he puts up there is simply no way to get any value for him. We might as well enjoy him while he’s here.


I enjoy enes when he isn't pouting over not starting.  He's young and enjoying life.   I envy him.

That's cause apparently you're stupid as fuck and have neither talent nor ambition.
If you are a skilled competitive athlete you want to play and to win.
We should trade or cut Enes before it blows up. Current situation serves nobody.

We’ll come to regret it. We’ll just make him the next big Knick killer for dropping him when he really wanted to be here. You dumb fucks can’t see talent and heart right in front of your eyes.
Title: Re: Ekant be all bad
Post by: chipstern on November 07, 2018, 02:23:10 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on November 07, 2018, 01:51:17 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 07, 2018, 01:02:57 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 07, 2018, 04:10:47 AM
Quote from: Kam on November 06, 2018, 10:17:36 PM
I'm just saying you're going to have your heart broke when we let him go.

Celebrate him. A two-season Knick at most.  Why would he come back here after we let him go?

Also, no matter what stats he puts up there is simply no way to get any value for him. We might as well enjoy him while he’s here.


I enjoy enes when he isn't pouting over not starting.  He's young and enjoying life.   I envy him.

That's cause apparently you're stupid as fuck and have neither talent nor ambition.
If you are a skilled competitive athlete you want to play and to win.
We should trade or cut Enes before it blows up. Current situation serves nobody.

That is BREATHTAKINGLY Dumb. 
Title: Re: Ekant be all bad
Post by: Kam on November 07, 2018, 02:25:25 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on November 07, 2018, 01:51:17 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 07, 2018, 01:02:57 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 07, 2018, 04:10:47 AM
Quote from: Kam on November 06, 2018, 10:17:36 PM
I'm just saying you're going to have your heart broke when we let him go.

Celebrate him. A two-season Knick at most.  Why would he come back here after we let him go?

Also, no matter what stats he puts up there is simply no way to get any value for him. We might as well enjoy him while he’s here.


I enjoy enes when he isn't pouting over not starting.  He's young and enjoying life.   I envy him.

That's cause apparently you're stupid as fuck and have neither talent nor ambition.
If you are a skilled competitive athlete you want to play and to win.
We should trade or cut Enes before it blows up. Current situation serves nobody.

suck yuh madda you butt-clot
Title: Re: Ekant be all bad
Post by: lesterluv on November 07, 2018, 02:30:05 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 07, 2018, 02:23:10 PM
That is BREATHTAKINGLY Dumb.

Why? Enes isn't in any kind of late-period "mentor the youth" stage.
He's entering his prime and is not the retiring type.
Things will get ugly fast unless Fiz starts playing to win.

Quote from: Kam on November 07, 2018, 02:25:25 PM
suck yuh madda you butt-clot

 ;) :-*
Title: Trade Proposal
Post by: Kam on November 07, 2018, 03:11:28 PM
Kanter to the Lakers for Caldwell-Pope and Lonzo Ball. 

Title: End Game Lineup
Post by: Kam on November 07, 2018, 03:18:25 PM
One of the least hopeful developments over the last 5 seasons was that we had just one obvious GO-TO player option in a close game late.


First Melo.
Later KP.

Now both are gone.

Tim was the guy early this year.
It's Allonzo's turn now.

But at least all these injuries are giving different players turns at the end game.


When we are healthy Fizz will be able to put a closing lineup consisting of KP, Tim, and Allonzo... making the job of the defense and the opposing coach much tougher in that last timeout of the game.

This is a good development.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 07, 2018, 03:26:14 PM
I dont think trading Kanter is dumb

Its all about the picks, isnt it?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 07, 2018, 03:30:06 PM
Imagine Mitchell Robinson inbounding the ball at halfcourt over the outstretched arms of the defender, throwing it into the backcourt to Trier, who catches it and pushes the ball up towards a KP screen above the three pt line... meanwhile down near the basket Jr.Hard uses a screen set by NoVon to lose his man and run to the baseline.

ZO can either attack the hoop; shoot the three; slip a bounce pass in-stride to a rolling towards the basket Porzingis; or zip a pass into the corner for Junior before the defense closes out on him.

If Trier or Jr. misses you have Vonleh and KP to get the offensive rebound.

If Trier slips it to KP and Vonleh's man comes up to challenge then KP can throw it up to Vonleh to dunk it at the rim.

Execution. Victory.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 07, 2018, 03:43:27 PM
In light of end of season tiebreakers, WFAN's Greg Giannotti sees tonight as a "must lose" for the Knicks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 07, 2018, 04:17:03 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 07, 2018, 03:43:27 PM
In light of end of season tiebreakers, WFAN's Greg Giannotti sees tonight as a "must lose" for the Knicks.

The Hawks have a negative 9.6 point differential per game. 

Our is a mere negative 3.3.

We are better.

But if Jr. sits it may not matter.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 07, 2018, 04:29:20 PM
NBAdraft.net finally updated

Knicks at #5

Brooklyn at 10 and 28

Celtics at 19, 21, 22, 23

Cavs get Batrrett
Suns get Williamson
Knicjs take another SF

http://www.nbadraft.net/2019mock_draft (http://www.nbadraft.net/2019mock_draft)

Title: Re: Trade Proposal
Post by: carlos123 on November 07, 2018, 05:01:56 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 07, 2018, 03:11:28 PM
Kanter to the Lakers for Caldwell-Pope and Lonzo Ball.

Kam to the Nyets for a retiring Brooklynette and a one-on-one interview with LaVar Ball.
Title: Re: Trade Proposal
Post by: Kam on November 07, 2018, 05:48:45 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on November 07, 2018, 05:01:56 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 07, 2018, 03:11:28 PM
Kanter to the Lakers for Caldwell-Pope and Lonzo Ball.

Kam to the Nyets for a retiring Brooklynette and a one-on-one interview with LaVar Ball.

Actually i just Barclays Center for the first time two weeks back for a concert.

Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds.

From where I sat i had a good view of the retired jersey's of Melchioni, Kidd, and Williamson.

Haven't seen the Nyets up close since the Meadowlands.
Title: Re: Trade Proposal
Post by: Nagel on November 07, 2018, 07:22:32 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 07, 2018, 03:11:28 PM
Kanter to the Lakers for Caldwell-Pope and Lonzo Ball.

ball traded only if lebron asks magic to dump him.

you want Lavar Ball anywhere near our team?

I don't.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 07, 2018, 07:27:39 PM
LaVar Ball is a non entity with the Lakers.  He's busy running his league.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 07, 2018, 08:03:23 PM
I don't like this Kanter pump-fake to J move.  He hasn't made one yet that i've seen.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 07, 2018, 08:08:43 PM
It's more of a set shot than a J.. . He looks stiff.
Title: NoVon
Post by: Kam on November 07, 2018, 08:09:59 PM
11 Point 9 Rebound 1st Quarter.

Might we see another 20/20?

Kanter had 19 boards in regulation.
Title: Zion
Post by: chipstern on November 07, 2018, 08:32:27 PM
“If you’re coming up with a comparison, you’re making it up,” Bilas said. “There’s never been anyone like him. There [have been players] that have one or two things like him, but never the complete package.

“It’s the combination of all those things you can’t wrap your head around, how explosive and agile he is at 6-foot-7, 285 pounds. He’s basically an offensive lineman that has a dancer’s feet and gets off the floor like a guy that’s 175 pounds.”

Former Knicks guard and Turner Sports analyst Greg Anthony played with Larry Johnson, one of the premier athletes the college game has ever seen, for two seasons at UNLV. Johnson had the ability to play inside and out, to jump over and through opponents, and shoot from the perimeter. Williamson’s game, Anthony said, is more advanced as a freshman than Johnson’s was as a junior.

“His game is a little more evolved,” said Anthony, who has seen Williamson up close on the AAU circuit while following his son, Cole, a top-rated senior guard at Oak Hill Academy. “Larry was a power forward who could play on the perimeter; Zion is a perimeter player who can play in the paint.”
Title: JUNIOR!
Post by: Kam on November 07, 2018, 10:14:54 PM
Averaging 32.5 ppg 4 ast 2.5 stl this season vs his former squad.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 07, 2018, 10:21:04 PM
Hardaway 2-11 on 3's, yet ATL keeps fouling him all over the court.

Kanter has ben making sloppy passes lately.
Kant  & Mud's passes get deflected a lot, stolen some.

Plumlee really brought energy and got Hawks back in it.
Looked worlds better than Len or Dedmon Walking.

Both teams with 30 fouls.
Knix with 47 FT's.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Pharoah on November 07, 2018, 10:47:13 PM
Still in Charleston for work, so no recap tomorrow. A few things that stood out to me though:

Vonleh and Mudiay combined 5/8 from three...how crazy that those makes are the difference. I'm grouping 'em too because Vonleh did all his scoring in the first (but was pretty good everywhere else all night) and then Mudiay played frustrating ball in the first half but balled in the second. Mudiay took the baseline a lot in the first half and I don't think even looked to score on 'em. In the second half though...he hit his jumpers and made some plays (even a defensive show out). Maybe Fiz is finding something here.

We over rely on THJ to close every game. He was great tonight, don't get me wrong but I want a more team oriented approach.

Kanter's been really good off the bench but his defense stands out in fourth quarters as much or more than his contributions and the TO thing is starting to get worrisome. 5 TO's tonight from a center.

Knox doesn't have his rhythm or feel back yet on either end. I'm not worried about it though, he got five minutes last game and 9 in this one. Good to bring him back in slowly.

I wouldn't mind Dot having a low scoring game except that he only took 1 FGA. He had one of his weaker defensive nights too. Just a really strange night overall considering that he started the game with something like 3 or 4 consecutive impact possessions offensively.

16 points off 9 shots from Trier (5 makes)...his potential is all in learning to create when teams start keying on him to get stops, but he's already cut back on forces.

Kanter and Vonleh had 24 rebounds combined. The Hawks had 30 as a team.

Mitch only needed 15 minutes to get 2 blocks and a steal. Even with Vonleh and Kanter playing so well, I'd like to see Fiz carve out more time for him.

Young got some buckets late in this one but Frank shut him down when they matched up (and half his fouls came against Spellman not Trae). But that's Frank being Frank. The scoring was a damned pleasant bounce back though...he scored his first bucket on a post up, made 2 threes out of 4 tries and attacked the basket a few times; all of those are promising signs for him getting his offense back on track.

Honestly, huge swaths of ugly play in this one but it was the Hawks on a back to back so the Knicks got away with it. Not the most promising win imo, but they need to get some W's to keep everyone optimistic; especially if vets are already seeing minutes cut like Lance and Burke.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 07, 2018, 10:52:24 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 07, 2018, 10:21:04 PM
Hardaway 2-11 on 3's, yet ATL keeps fouling him all over the court.




The two are unrelated

They arent fouling THJ as he just stands still outside the arc.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Pharoah on November 07, 2018, 11:03:29 PM
https://twitter.com/KnickFilmSchool/status/1060378555861876738 (https://twitter.com/KnickFilmSchool/status/1060378555861876738)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 07, 2018, 11:38:46 PM
Quote from: Pharoah on November 07, 2018, 11:03:29 PM
https://twitter.com/KnickFilmSchool/status/1060378555861876738 (https://twitter.com/KnickFilmSchool/status/1060378555861876738)

Great.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 08, 2018, 12:06:47 AM
Quote from: elephant on November 07, 2018, 11:38:46 PM
Quote from: Pharoah on November 07, 2018, 11:03:29 PM
https://twitter.com/KnickFilmSchool/status/1060378555861876738 (https://twitter.com/KnickFilmSchool/status/1060378555861876738)

Great.

Frank haters can go kick rocks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 08, 2018, 02:25:26 AM
Quote from: Kam on November 08, 2018, 12:06:47 AM
Quote from: elephant on November 07, 2018, 11:38:46 PM
Quote from: Pharoah on November 07, 2018, 11:03:29 PM
https://twitter.com/KnickFilmSchool/status/1060378555861876738 (https://twitter.com/KnickFilmSchool/status/1060378555861876738)

Great.

Frank haters can go kick rocks.

K

And what about Mudiay haters?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 08, 2018, 02:52:19 AM
They have to kick different rocks tonight.

It’s good to have a range of potentially effective guards. It would look better if more of them could be more effective more often. That seems to be what we’re working towards.

Mudiay could not have done what Frank did defensively tonight on even his best day.

Good nights from all our bruisers. Mitch even hit a short J.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 08, 2018, 08:04:27 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 08, 2018, 02:52:19 AM
They have to kick different rocks tonight.

It’s good to have a range of potentially effective guards. It would look better if more of them could be more effective more often. That seems to be what we’re working towards.

Mudiay could not have done what Frank did defensively tonight on even his best day.

Good nights from all our bruisers. Mitch even hit a short J.

Frank still not as effective at ruddering an offense as Emmanuel. 

Both growing up before our eyes. 

Consistency should come over time. 

Also, after seeing Mudiay fail to convert/get blocked one time after another in the paint, was gratifying to see that it WAS NOT EFFECTING his jumper, which looked smoother than at any time for the Knicks, save that one game last year where he briefly found himself in a zone. 

Likewise, it was good to see Frank applying pressure on offense. 

Now let's see if Trey can amp things up.  He has not been playing with the dynamism he displayed the last two months of 2017-2018. 
Title: Re: Trade Proposal
Post by: thebizneverloses on November 08, 2018, 08:40:21 AM
Quote from: Kam on November 07, 2018, 03:11:28 PM
Kanter to the Lakers for Caldwell-Pope and Lonzo Ball.

Dude.
Title: Re: Trade Proposal
Post by: Kam on November 08, 2018, 09:02:59 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on November 08, 2018, 08:40:21 AM
Quote from: Kam on November 07, 2018, 03:11:28 PM
Kanter to the Lakers for Caldwell-Pope and Lonzo Ball.

Dude.

Gotta give to get

:)
Title: Rookie Leaders
Post by: Kam on November 08, 2018, 10:48:52 AM
PPG

1. Doncic
2. Young
3. Ayton
4. Bagley
5. Jackson
6. Trier


FG%

1. Ayton
2. Bridges
3. Bagley
4. Bamba
5. Trier
6. Doncic


3P%

1. Bagley
2. Trier
3. Huerter
4. Bridges
5. Spellman
6. Doncic





Title: Likewise...
Post by: chipstern on November 08, 2018, 12:24:26 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 08, 2018, 10:48:52 AM
PPG

1. Doncic
2. Young
3. Ayton
4. Bagley
5. Jackson
6. Trier


FG%

1. Ayton
2. Bridges
3. Bagley
4. Bamba
5. Trier
6. Doncic


3P%

1. Bagley
2. Trier
3. Huerter
4. Bridges
5. Spellman
6. Doncic

Allonzo in 24.5 mpg

9-20 from Three [.450%]

38-44 FTs [.864%]

Undrafted and a few months short of his 23rd birthday [January 17, 1996]
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 08, 2018, 03:15:48 PM
 I see Kyrie is playing the whiny bitch after  the Murray game.

Complaining that a team that is up shouldn't shoot at the end.

Heh  tff
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 08, 2018, 03:40:06 PM
I never get the problem.
How terrible, a team shot the ball.
So what if a guy takes an extra shot to try to get 50.
Who cares about this stuff.
It's unimportant.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on November 08, 2018, 03:48:19 PM
My thought has always been that if you're actually angry about him taking that shot to get to 50, you shouldn't have given up the other 47 or 48. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 08, 2018, 04:38:33 PM
I like the rule.  Unwritten rule.  If you can't score 50 when they're playing defense then you don't deserve 50.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 08, 2018, 05:09:52 PM
Play defense the whole 48 minutes and it's not an issue . . .

Game's over when the horn sounds and the clock hits 0:00
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 08, 2018, 05:12:15 PM
I get annoyed by the guys who wait until a quarter or half ends before they fling up a long shot at the basket.  Would rather not try to help their team than hurt their FG% or whatever.  Btw, Melo was often accused of this.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 08, 2018, 05:27:38 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 08, 2018, 12:06:47 AM
Quote from: elephant on November 07, 2018, 11:38:46 PM
Quote from: Pharoah on November 07, 2018, 11:03:29 PM
https://twitter.com/KnickFilmSchool/status/1060378555861876738 (https://twitter.com/KnickFilmSchool/status/1060378555861876738)

Great.

Frank haters can go kick rocks.

I dont think anyone hates the young man.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 08, 2018, 06:01:23 PM
I had just checked stats and was thinking that Franc shouldn't be taking 4 3's a game, when he popped in a key one v. ATL  (which was coincidentally his 4th attempt, making him 2-4 for the game)

His trio of missed 4Q treys the game before cost the Knix.
But hell, Muddy and Franc were making their 3's in the 2nd half v. ATL.  And development is more important than W's this season.
So while it's often not pretty, I'm okay with both of them shooting 3's when they are open or feel it's time.

Both of them need to be more careful with their passes. 
Neither looks comfortable running a team.

As for Trier, he's trying to make plays and keep the offense going and not just iso.  Clyde has been bemoaning that at times Trier isn't looking at the basket but is too intent on passing.  But I like the fact he's trying to expand his game and be more of a team player.  He's not there yet, so it's a little awkward, but he's trying. 

His offense is on scouting reports by now and he's even seen some double teams the past 3 games.  So he's going to need to be able to pass and create for others.  This will pay off and he'll learn to strike a balance.  It's still a huge learning curve, and he's performed admirably.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 08, 2018, 07:18:21 PM
When we have a health KP and Tim, Allonzo won't see as m(any) double teams and will kill em with it now.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 08, 2018, 10:02:03 PM
Got Celts -9.5 tonight

How does it look?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 08, 2018, 10:09:17 PM
Seems like we get a practice or two in before the Raps game. Hopefully we clean up some of our messier aspects going forward.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on November 09, 2018, 03:25:48 AM
Any number of players may turn out better than Knox, it's rather foolish to assume that the Knicks will always take the best player available in every draft. No team does that, and it isn't peevish to point out better options so much as pointless *unless* the Knicks passed on an obvious choice and reached for a different player.

So you can't blame the Knicks for passing on Donovan Mitchell or John Collins, but you can, if you are so inclined blame them for DSJ. TBD.

Similarly, I don't think you can blame the Knicks for passing on SGA (the only rookie drafted after Knox whom we can definitively say looks like he would go higher in a re-draft, although I think the Cavs are the ones who should be second guessing themselves most right now), but you can, if you are so inclined, blame them for either of the Bridges boys. But neither of those latter two have shown enough in games for a very convincing argument.

I'm still happy with the Knox pick.


Lottery redraft, if held today, without trades:

1. Suns - Ayton
2. Kings - Doncic
3. Hawks - Trae
4. Grizz - Jaren Jackson
5. Mavs - Wendell Carter
6. Magic - Bamba (although they'll take a look at SGA)
7. Bulls - Bagley
8. Cavs - SGA
9. Knicks - Knox (although possibly any of the eight players ahead would be preferred to Knox, no shame there)
10. Sixers - Miles Bridges
11. Hornets - Mikal Bridges
12. Clippers - Mitchell Robinson
13. Clippers - Sexton
14. Nuggets - Porter Jr
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 09, 2018, 08:53:14 AM
Looks like a strong class, as advertised.
Bamba and Trae look better than I expected.

Doncic adjusting better than I expected.
It helps that Dallas is totally allowing Donkey to play his game, including crazy passes and contested 3's.  From what I've seen he has long rough stretches and then adds in some terrific runs most games.  Looks like they'll let him do his thing and then try to reign him in maybe next year.  He has a knack for getting into open spaces, so once he erases some of the more contested shots, his %'s will go up.  For DAL, a lot depends on what Smith Jr. becomes.  He's pretty erratic now with a weak outside shot and iffy at best D.  So Doncic gets to handle the ball good deal.  Finney-Smith looks solid.  DeAndretheGiant needs better PG play.  Barnes still enigmatic.

But I got off the rook topic.

Knox looks like a terrific pick.  19.  And hasn't played much yet.
Mature, confident, talented.
Both of the Bridges look solid. 
SGA still a bit of a mystery man, but he's got some skills.

Of the guys I've seen below the Top 12 (post-bridge-building):

Okogie #20 is a high energy defender.  Will have a long career.
Huerter #19 looked aggressive
Hutchinson 22, a nice slasher and driver.  Good bounce, defends. No 3.
Spellman 30 has looked solid.  Had a double-double v. NYK.  Can bang and hit 3's

Only saw Divencenzo and Grayson Allen briefly, both looked like they can hang.  At least solid long term backups.  Possible starters (didn't see them do much except look competent).

Shamet's done well, but I haven't seen him.
Never heard of Jerome Robinson (#13) or Troy Brown #15.
Porter, Zaire and Lon Walker (14/16/18) all out with long-term injuries.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 09, 2018, 09:39:07 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on November 09, 2018, 03:25:48 AM
Any number of players may turn out better than Knox, it's rather foolish to assume that the Knicks will always take the best player available in every draft. No team does that, and it isn't peevish to point out better options so much as pointless *unless* the Knicks passed on an obvious choice and reached for a different player.

So you can't blame the Knicks for passing on Donovan Mitchell or John Collins, but you can, if you are so inclined blame them for DSJ. TBD.

Similarly, I don't think you can blame the Knicks for passing on SGA (the only rookie drafted after Knox whom we can definitively say looks like he would go higher in a re-draft, although I think the Cavs are the ones who should be second guessing themselves most right now), but you can, if you are so inclined, blame them for either of the Bridges boys. But neither of those latter two have shown enough in games for a very convincing argument.

I'm still happy with the Knox pick.


Lottery redraft, if held today, without trades:

1. Suns - Ayton
2. Kings - Doncic
3. Hawks - Trae
4. Grizz - Jaren Jackson
5. Mavs - Wendell Carter
6. Magic - Bamba (although they'll take a look at SGA)
7. Bulls - Bagley
8. Cavs - SGA
9. Knicks - Knox (although possibly any of the eight players ahead would be preferred to Knox, no shame there)
10. Sixers - Miles Bridges
11. Hornets - Mikal Bridges
12. Clippers - Mitchell Robinson
13. Clippers - Sexton
14. Nuggets - Porter Jr

Maybe.

I think you are missing some good ones - but teams would still draft on "potential" (read:  athleticism, size, speed - sometimes above ball skills.)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 09, 2018, 10:26:30 AM
Bagley has double digits all but one game.  7 a bit low.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 09, 2018, 11:20:06 AM
Caught a HOU@OKC repaly.
Rockettes were full-strength, Thunderous had Westbrook out.
HOU looked bad.
They played with energy but couldn't make shots and didn't get stops.

Melo was particularly bad, finished 1-11 for 2 points.  but even that 1 FG came down 20 mid-4Q, and he didn't actually get the ball through the rim, but his layup was partially blocked and they called it a goaltend.  O FT's too.

Only Capela looked good for HOU.  And he was matched bY Steven Adams.  When Rocks went small, Adams punished them by getting switched on to Melo/Harden/Paul.  And Adams grabbed boards by being the largest human out there.

Paul George didn't shoot well, but filled up the stat sheet with a half dozen steals and assists. 

Only scoring 80 with their full lineup has to be worrisome for HOU.
4-6 record.  And the defense is wobbly.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on November 09, 2018, 01:41:40 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on November 09, 2018, 10:26:30 AM
Bagley has double digits all but one game.  7 a bit low.

So who takes him before 7 in a re-draft? Definitely not the Kings, not the way their new identity.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 09, 2018, 02:23:45 PM
Never mind

The fact you still have Knox ahead of Bridges says enough
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 09, 2018, 04:39:29 PM
Miles is going to be decent. It remains to be seen what Knox will be.

The money situation says that Trey is gone by January to make room for Zo.

Trey is better and more valuable than Baker, but his money isn’t guaranteed. $400k vs. $4mil.

We should cut Baker, but we will cut Trey.

It doesn’t really matter since neither will play.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 09, 2018, 04:48:09 PM
Do Knix really worry about a few $M?
Burke could be a trade sweetener, and still is our best PG.
And could be a medium term backup PG at a reasonable rate.

Baker plays hard and probably a good practice player, but can't get minutes as we've become surprisingly deep.
I'd think Kornet or Baker gets tossed.

Burke sticks around.  He could have a future here, the other two unlikely.  And what if either Franc or Mud gets hurt, especially after KZ is back?  Burke provides insurance. 

While Baker is about 6th string SG.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 09, 2018, 04:57:32 PM
Can Burke accept Baker's role?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 09, 2018, 05:02:00 PM
Checking in on Nuggets-Nets tonight

See if Russell can hold Murray under 40.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 09, 2018, 05:53:21 PM
Quote
Knicks say Lance Thomas underwent arthroscopic surgery of his left knee for removal of loose bodies. Thomas will begin rehab immediately and be re-evaluated in four weeks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 09, 2018, 07:59:46 PM
Wizards still struggling - and still wont play 3 guards

Morris or Porter to the bench would be extremely helpful.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on November 10, 2018, 12:27:09 AM
What is the love shown here for Miles Bridges?

I did not even know he was gone.

---Knicks’ depth takes hit with Lance Thomas surgery.---

Miss the gritty defense and goose eggs on the box score already. A centerpiece for the triangle master plan.
---“The biggest thing is that we get that knee healthy, and Lance is our leader, and we just get him back feeling good and get him back in that locker room with his voice,” Fizdale said.--- Huh!


https://nypost.com/2018/11/09/knicks-depth-takes-hit-with-lance-thomas-surgery/ (https://nypost.com/2018/11/09/knicks-depth-takes-hit-with-lance-thomas-surgery/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 10, 2018, 01:09:12 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 09, 2018, 07:59:46 PM
Wizards still struggling - and still wont play 3 guards
Morris or Porter to the bench would be extremely helpful.

Starting Awful Rivers in place of Porter/Morris is ridiculous.
He's having a terrible year, is foul prone & 38% FG; 63% FT; 6.5 PER
He's already playing 23 mins a night and isn't helping any.
While Satoransky is a marginal NBA player.

Besides it would turn their bench into Satoransky and all F's.
The bench is already a weakness.  And I'd much rather have Porter shooting 3's (and playing D) than Rivers.

Morris had been injured.
Have to hope to get him healthy/fit and Wall alter his style and provide genuine leadership.  The friction with Gortat came to a head when he talked about how nice it was playing without Wall (who was injured) and how everyone got touches and enjoyed the game, and the team was winning.  Is starting AuRevior going to change how Wall plays or spread the touches?  Doubt it.  While weakening their D and mucking up their bench.

Brooks would have to be desperate and fearful for his job.
And if they were going to try 3 Guards, I'd go centerless and sit Dwight.  Worsens the D for sure, but hopefully opens driving lanes for Beal and Wall, with kickout possibilities.

Some team should swoop in and steal Beal.
A talented player being held back.  Work some 3-team dealio in which the Wizbangs get a couple players and save money (absorbed by the mythical 3rd team under the cap).
Same goes for Porter, but he's owed a lot and the ceiling seems to be lower.  Things so bad for WAS, you have to due your diligence on the motivation and desire for those guys.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on November 10, 2018, 08:15:48 AM
I think Beal is the one guy they won't/shouldn't trade.

I can't see who will take Wall in a trade, mind you. Zach Lowe was musing about it, but I think he's going to be hard to move. There's a sense that he should bring back starters + picks and I just don't think teams are lining up to give that up for a player with his attitude/reputation, contract and knees. Maybe Orlando, in a salary dump (Augustin/Ross expirings plus a heavily protected first rounder)? Maybe Memphis, along with Austin Rivers, for Conley, with no picks involved? To Detroit, for Reggie Jackson and Stanley Johnson?  It's hard to conjure Wall deals that make sense.

That leaves two options: trade Porter or just assume nothing needs to be changed. But Porter, at his salary, isn't going to be highly sought after. He can play for anyone, in any system, but his salary right now looks double what it ought to be and it's a sell-low move for the Wiz.

I don't see a reason why the Knicks should go for either Porter or Wall when there's still a chance at a guy like Kemba (let alone Durant). Not saying those guys will come, just that I'd try for them and risk missing out then take on Porter or Wall. Same reason I'd move Hardaway.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 10, 2018, 09:37:46 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on November 10, 2018, 08:15:48 AM
I think Beal is the one guy they won't/shouldn't trade.

Beale St. is the guy who could be moved and bring a return.
Wall's new deal pays him something like $40M, and if they move him then they need a starting caliber PG.  So that's a big mess.
Porter won't get you much because his salary is too large.

So the easiest fix is move Beal for value and get a return that can keep the team in the playoffs.  (you try to get something like Caldwell-Pope & Ingram, a solid role player and a yute with upside.  Not that that is necessarily available and doesn't have the right cap numbers to work -- but that would be the idea).

Moving Wall is hard to do and involves a significant degree of rebuilding.  Moving Porter is likely a downgrade.  Moving Beal shuffles things and retains a competitive core.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 10, 2018, 11:32:51 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on November 10, 2018, 08:15:48 AM
I think Beal is the one guy they won't/shouldn't trade.

I can't see who will take Wall in a trade, mind you. Zach Lowe was musing about it, but I think he's going to be hard to move. There's a sense that he should bring back starters + picks and I just don't think teams are lining up to give that up for a player with his attitude/reputation, contract and knees. Maybe Orlando, in a salary dump (Augustin/Ross expirings plus a heavily protected first rounder)? Maybe Memphis, along with Austin Rivers, for Conley, with no picks involved? To Detroit, for Reggie Jackson and Stanley Johnson?  It's hard to conjure Wall deals that make sense.

That leaves two options: trade Porter or just assume nothing needs to be changed. But Porter, at his salary, isn't going to be highly sought after. He can play for anyone, in any system, but his salary right now looks double what it ought to be and it's a sell-low move for the Wiz.

I don't see a reason why the Knicks should go for either Porter or Wall when there's still a chance at a guy like Kemba (let alone Durant). Not saying those guys will come, just that I'd try for them and risk missing out then take on Porter or Wall. Same reason I'd move Hardaway.

Kemba is a fixture in Charlotte, the face of the franchise. 

Watched him go head to head with Westbrook at the Spectrum Center last week.

Kemba ain't going nowhere. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on November 10, 2018, 12:15:36 PM
Lots of players move. He's from the Bronx. You're wrong to speak with such certainty.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on November 10, 2018, 01:06:43 PM
The Butler did it.

He got out of Minny.

TWolves send him to 76ers

for Saric, Covington and (I heard a 2)


I'm not sure if giving up 2 starters for Butler is smart, but 76ers star power increased.

They got most of the season to figure it out.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 10, 2018, 01:41:04 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on November 10, 2018, 01:06:43 PM
The Butler did it.

He got out of Minny.

TWolves send him to 76ers

for Saric, Covington and (I heard a 2)


I'm not sure if giving up 2 starters for Butler is smart, but 76ers star power increased.

They got most of the season to figure it out.

Wow.

Two starters. 

Covington a SF.

Saric a PF. 

Excellent haul for Minny. 

Covington a very underrated sniper from trey at the three spot.  Allows Wiggins to play Big Wing/SG...okay, positionless hoops.   

Saric could be a star playing next to Towns at the 4.  Leaves a big hole at the 4 for Philly next to Embid.  Wilson Chandler at the 4?

Layden and Thibs did it.  Credit where credit is due. 

Butler on Philly?  SF.  Could be a significant leader.  Or detonate.  I reckon the former. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on November 10, 2018, 02:19:23 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 10, 2018, 01:41:04 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on November 10, 2018, 01:06:43 PM
The Butler did it.

He got out of Minny.

TWolves send him to 76ers

for Saric, Covington and (I heard a 2)


I'm not sure if giving up 2 starters for Butler is smart, but 76ers star power increased.

They got most of the season to figure it out.

Wow.

Two starters. 

Covington a SF.

Saric a PF. 

Excellent haul for Minny. 

Covington a very underrated sniper from trey at the three spot.  Allows Wiggins to play Big Wing/SG...okay, positionless hoops.   

Saric could be a star playing next to Towns at the 4.  Leaves a big hole at the 4 for Philly next to Embid.  Wilson Chandler at the 4?

Layden and Thibs did it.  Credit where credit is due. 

Butler on Philly?  SF.  Could be a significant leader.  Or detonate.  I reckon the former.

That's my take as well.

I'm not a big Butler fan, so I'm probably missing the obvous allure of a 1 year rental who for that 1 year has to find his place and points on a team that has its  2 young franchise stars in place.

I think its a pretty good trade for Minny all things considered. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 10, 2018, 02:38:43 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on November 10, 2018, 01:06:43 PM
The Butler did it.

He got out of Minny.

TWolves send him to 76ers

for Saric, Covington and (I heard a 2)


I'm not sure if giving up 2 starters for Butler is smart, but 76ers star power increased.

They got most of the season to figure it out.

Its a great deal unless you think Covington is irreplaceable.

Have to look at it as Jimmy vs Saric - and Jimmy/Ben/Joe-el is the BIG 3 every team looks for.

From the other end of course you love to have the extra guy - and hope Saric gels immeidately with the Wolves core.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on November 10, 2018, 02:41:13 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 10, 2018, 01:41:04 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on November 10, 2018, 01:06:43 PM
The Butler did it.

He got out of Minny.

TWolves send him to 76ers

for Saric, Covington and (I heard a 2)


I'm not sure if giving up 2 starters for Butler is smart, but 76ers star power increased.

They got most of the season to figure it out.

Wow.

Two starters. 

Covington a SF.

Saric a PF. 

Excellent haul for Minny. 

Covington a very underrated sniper from trey at the three spot.  Allows Wiggins to play Big Wing/SG...okay, positionless hoops.   

Saric could be a star playing next to Towns at the 4.  Leaves a big hole at the 4 for Philly next to Embid.  Wilson Chandler at the 4?

Layden and Thibs did it.  Credit where credit is due. 

Butler on Philly?  SF.  Could be a significant leader.  Or detonate.  I reckon the former.

Before the season they turned down Josh Richardson, Kelly Olynyk and a first rounder. That's a much better haul. I wouldn't give Layden and Thibs too much credit.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 10, 2018, 03:07:12 PM
But of course the situation changed.

Minnesota is 4-9 and a bit frustrated.

And J-Buts has refused game play.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on November 10, 2018, 04:51:36 PM
giving Butler 190 million caps you our for 5 years.

you are not getting his best 5 years.

i don't like the deal for Philly long term.

Title: 3rd Quarter Score 82-100
Post by: Kam on November 10, 2018, 04:52:33 PM
We're not playing badly.  Just not shooting well enough to hang.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on November 10, 2018, 04:53:29 PM
NY going down as expected. Raptors way too good for this version of NY.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 10, 2018, 05:02:47 PM
Real good team

WERE best in the East

Not sure now after the Butler deal
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 10, 2018, 05:14:46 PM
So.....Russell outscored both starting guards combined last night.

Nice win for BK
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on November 10, 2018, 05:37:14 PM
Good loss, a lot of improving contributions. As long as Enes is on the bench you know it is a tank. This the year that Rapters finally overtake the Celts?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on November 10, 2018, 08:25:44 PM
stop with the tanking talk.  Ny is not winning anything with or without EK.  you need to develop Robinson for the future because NY is not giving EK a large piece of their cap.

team is simply not good enough right now to complete.

let's see what we look like a year from now.

KP back,  Knox and Robinson get a year under heir belt.  we get another lottery pick.  someone takes our money.  hopefully.

we shall see.  the present is not good.  the future is the unknown.

Title: Enes
Post by: carlos123 on November 10, 2018, 09:15:38 PM
Nagel, the Knicks don't need to give EK a large piece of their cap. They could just negotiate a reasonable extension. I realize he most likely wouldn't take it after being demoted. Robinson could be developed playing the same number of minutes off the bench, but I guess it's too late for all of that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 10, 2018, 11:15:09 PM
Same type player, that Robinson?

Heh.
Title: Hey Chico!
Post by: carlos123 on November 11, 2018, 12:23:21 AM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on November 10, 2018, 11:15:09 PM
Same type player, that Robinson?

Heh.

Hola Chico!

You talking to me? I knew you didn’t really have me on ignore, u like what I have to say, can’t help yourself. Te encanta!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 11, 2018, 12:39:45 AM
Minny did very well.
If PHI could have added Butler while keeping Covington, they'd be in great shape.  As it is they add Butler's D but lose Covington's (he was guarding PG's to end a game recently, and can guard 1-4, whereas Butler can't move up to handle Bigs).  They lose two 3-point shooters for Butler.  Btw, Covington a much better player than Saric.

PHI must have gotten assurance that Butler would re-sign with them.
Now they have to worry that Butler will mesh with the team and not dominate the locker room.  I don't think PHI has the depth to make such a trade.   Now they have to count on creaky vets Wil & Amir.

I would have offered only Saric, McConnell & one of Amir/Wil.  Or if you really wanted Butler, been willing to do Saric, McConehead, Shamet.  Going forward, PHI doesn't need all of Fultz, Zhaire, Shamet.
Fultz - Butler - Covington - Simmons - Embiid would be murderous.

I'd much rather lose Shamet than Covington.  Part of the problem is that both MIni and Philly have surplus PG's.

Good haul for Minny - gives them a 3&D reolacement for Butler and adds depth (though thins them out at SG (where Wig can play).  Opens minutes for Okogie.
PHI gave up too much and imbalanced their lineup, weakening their bench.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 11, 2018, 01:07:55 AM
If there is someone you really like in the lottery, playing Kanter big minutes is the ticket to improving our lotto position.

If Kanter gets us Zion to take his spot next year then he will have been a great help to the Knicks though never a great Knick.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 11, 2018, 03:22:07 AM
Zion was 6'6" 280 in high school.  Then dropped 30 pounds.
Lets see how he does in College . . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 11, 2018, 11:25:22 AM
 SIXTY TWO in one half for JIMMER

24-34 from the field for the game.  Sharks unfortunately lose on a buzzer beater 137-136

75 points
62 in second half
40 in 4th quarter

7-10 on 3s
20-21 from ft line

8 rebounds
7 assists
4 steals
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 11, 2018, 11:28:21 AM
If Knicks get KD and stay pat after that are we better than Boston?

How about KD and a top 5?

Celtics as we know will be bottom scraping this draft as they wonder if they erred with Tatum and if Kyrie lied to them.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on November 11, 2018, 12:08:08 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on November 11, 2018, 11:28:21 AM
If Knicks get KD and stay pat after that are we better than Boston?

How about KD and a top 5?

Celtics as we know will be bottom scraping this draft as they wonder if they erred with Tatum and if Kyrie lied to them.

kid your obssession and obtuseness re young Mr. Tatum is fascinating.

No matter where the Celts pick settles from the 76ers re Fultz trade, (my hope remains a nice lottery pick-its long season) it should have occured to you that the 76ers by getting Butler and adding another ball dominant guy, are de-emphasizing Fultz's role in Philly. at a minimum Fultz needs the ball, and he ain't gonna be getting it, not with 3 hungrier and better guys who will demand it. 

Put another away the clock is ticking for Mr Fultz in Philly. 

But like most things that take some thought and understanding this escaped you.

and whether you understand it or not, Tatum is the real deal, and the trade was a steal,

Of far greater interest than rehashing your misunderstanding of that trade, is the battles to come atop the East.

Raptor-Celts-Bucks-76ers

the depth in the East is getting pretty deep.
   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 11, 2018, 12:22:29 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on November 11, 2018, 12:08:08 PM


Raptor-Celts-Bucks-76ers

the depth in the East is getting pretty deep.
 

Yep.


Curious.  How would you rank the East best?

My Top Players in the Eastern Conference.

1. MIL  Giannis
2. TOR Kawhi
3. PHI  Embiid
4. PHI  Simmons
5. PHI  Butler
6. BOS Irving
7. MIL  Middleton
8. CHA Walker
9. TOR Lowry
10. ????   Junior?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on November 11, 2018, 12:57:03 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 11, 2018, 12:22:29 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on November 11, 2018, 12:08:08 PM


Raptor-Celts-Bucks-76ers

the depth in the East is getting pretty deep.
 

Yep.


Curious.  How would you rank the East best?

My Top Players in the Eastern Conference.

1. MIL  Giannis
2. TOR Kawhi
3. PHI  Embiid
4. PHI  Simmons
5. PHI  Butler
6. BOS Irving
7. MIL  Middleton
8. CHA Walker
9. TOR Lowry
10. ????   Junior?

Honestly I don't think about it.

I'd probably add Victor O to your list, he's impressed me over the past couple of years and John Wall

your 1-2-3 looks reasonable, but IMO Butler and Simmons too high.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 11, 2018, 01:09:54 PM
Quote from: Nagel on November 10, 2018, 08:25:44 PM
stop with the tanking talk.  Ny is not winning anything with or without EK.  you need to develop Robinson for the future because NY is not giving EK a large piece of their cap.

team is simply not good enough right now to complete.

let's see what we look like a year from now.

KP back,  Knox and Robinson get a year under heir belt.  we get another lottery pick.  someone takes our money.  hopefully.

we shall see.  the present is not good.  the future is the unknown.

Nice thought - to develop Robinson

But Knicks have to also keep Kanter's value up.  He is almost DEFINITELY being dealt.

To develop Mitchell you would need to post him up - and at times bring him out to receive facing the basket.  Not sure this is plan A, B or Z for these Knicks for this season.   MR's high flying act will have to suffice (and I am fine with that)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 11, 2018, 01:16:15 PM
Meanwhile THJ continues to play at an All Star level (20.3 PER amidst his improving defense and leadership)

But sometimes you have to wait a year.  As we saw with KP.....maybe Tim makes it NEXT season off what he does this campaign
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 11, 2018, 01:18:03 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on November 11, 2018, 12:57:03 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 11, 2018, 12:22:29 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on November 11, 2018, 12:08:08 PM


Raptor-Celts-Bucks-76ers

the depth in the East is getting pretty deep.
 

Yep.


Curious.  How would you rank the East best?

My Top Players in the Eastern Conference.

1. MIL  Giannis
2. TOR Kawhi
3. PHI  Embiid
4. PHI  Simmons
5. PHI  Butler
6. BOS Irving
7. MIL  Middleton
8. CHA Walker
9. TOR Lowry
10. ????   Junior?

Honestly I don't think about it.

I'd probably add Victor O to your list, he's impressed me over the past couple of years and John Wall

your 1-2-3 looks reasonable, but IMO Butler and Simmons too high.

Yeah - he forgot Vic (top 5) and a couple others
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on November 11, 2018, 01:36:56 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on November 11, 2018, 11:25:22 AM
SIXTY TWO in one half for JIMMER

24-34 from the field for the game.  Sharks unfortunately lose on a buzzer beater 137-136

75 points
62 in second half
40 in 4th quarter

7-10 on 3s
20-21 from ft line

8 rebounds
7 assists
4 steals

Pierre Jackson got 65/8/5 opposite Jimmer. Pierre Jackson.

Third tier league, at best.

Reminds me of the time I played pick-up against a point guard who had just finished his first year playing pro in the Adriatic League. He was shooting from two steps in half court, etc, scoring at will while mostly looking just to set people up. There were decent players, I had thought, who normally came out to this weekly game but this 5'8 dude was destroying us.

That's Jimmer.

You're posting breathless highlights like it matters in any way in an NBA context.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 11, 2018, 01:45:58 PM
Very little D in China.
Plus, JimJam is allowed to shoot anything at anytime.
It's all a little crazy.

Blake, Drummond, Wall, Beal.
This year so far Ibaka and Whiteside are killing it.
Title: Butler
Post by: Kam on November 11, 2018, 02:30:12 PM
Butler going to the 76'ers this season swings the balance.

If he stays long-term in Philaldelphia it doesn't change the face of the East very much.

Boston and Philly were always gonna be near the top.

Glad he didn't go to Miami, as that is a team we should be competing with next season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on November 11, 2018, 03:52:40 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 11, 2018, 01:09:54 PM
Quote from: Nagel on November 10, 2018, 08:25:44 PM
stop with the tanking talk.  Ny is not winning anything with or without EK.  you need to develop Robinson for the future because NY is not giving EK a large piece of their cap.

team is simply not good enough right now to complete.

let's see what we look like a year from now.

KP back,  Knox and Robinson get a year under heir belt.  we get another lottery pick.  someone takes our money.  hopefully.

we shall see.  the present is not good.  the future is the unknown.

Nice thought - to develop Robinson

But Knicks have to also keep Kanter's value up.  He is almost DEFINITELY being dealt.

To develop Mitchell you would need to post him up - and at times bring him out to receive facing the basket.  Not sure this is plan A, B or Z for these Knicks for this season.   MR's high flying act will have to suffice (and I am fine with that)

everyone already knows what EK can do now.  so keeping his value up is makes no sense what so ever.  his game won't be changing.  he bounds and he scores down low.  that is it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 11, 2018, 04:15:28 PM
For Orlando:
Isaac out; Gordon a game time decision (ankles for the pair)

Saw the 2nd half and OT of a hard-fought but ragged MIL-LAC game.

Gorgeous-Alexander looked pretty good.
Had two nice drives where he dropped off passes for Gortat.
Popped in a pair of 3's.  Fought on D.
Has some trouble with PnR D, but he follows and his length allows him to get back into plays.  Got one of his 3 blocks that way. 
Missed a 10' baseline shot late, where he looked a bit nervous.
But the kid is good and going to get better.

Gallo looked chunky, but played credible D on Anti-Greek. 
Shot poorly but made some plays.

Was a sloppy disjointed game for MIL.
I really enjoy watching Brogdan.  And Middleton plays hard.
DiVinnie more athletic than you'd think (as advertised).  But had a rough game besides a nice late off rebound.

There was one early 4Q sequence where Brook Lopes missed three straight 3's.  two of them a couple step behind the line.  Not sure whya  7' needs to be that deep.  Now I see in the box Brook went 6-12 on 3's for the game.  Guess he was feeling hot.  But those misses let CLips pull ahead.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 11, 2018, 05:12:45 PM
Pierre Jackson is averaging 45 Pts & 9 Assists in China.

His first 10 games in China this season (p/a/r).
46/6/7
36/4/8
67/10/8
29/7/5
44/14/5
58/10/6
24/10/8
48/10/5
32/10/6
63/8/5
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 11, 2018, 06:19:23 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 11, 2018, 01:45:58 PM
Very little D in China.
Plus, JimJam is allowed to shoot anything at anytime.


heh

I repeat -

SIXTY TWO in a HALF

FORTY IN A FUCKING QUARTER
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 11, 2018, 06:21:11 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 11, 2018, 05:12:45 PM
Pierre Jackson is averaging 45 Pts & 9 Assists in China.

His first 10 games in China this season (p/a/r).
46/6/7
36/4/8
67/10/8
29/7/5
44/14/5
58/10/6
24/10/8
48/10/5
32/10/6
63/8/5

So Jimmer held him under his season high  :)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on November 11, 2018, 09:48:22 PM
knicks looking like a CBA team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 11, 2018, 09:52:25 PM
didnt watch...what the heck happened out there
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on November 11, 2018, 10:33:23 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on November 11, 2018, 09:52:25 PM
didnt watch...what the heck happened out there

We were missing Jimmer  :D

(Especially his defense).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 11, 2018, 11:04:28 PM
Jimmer has found his level. There is no way he could ever conceivably help an NBA team. He would even be a couple of steps below Kanter who is a step or two below Melo.

This looks to be the start of a very rough stretch for our Knicks. I hope we can at least get back to a more respectable style of losing.
Title: Enes & other players
Post by: carlos123 on November 11, 2018, 11:33:54 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 11, 2018, 11:04:28 PM
Jimmer has found his level. There is no way he could ever conceivably help an NBA team. He would even be a couple of steps below Kanter who is a step or two below Melo.

This looks to be the start of a very rough stretch for our Knicks. I hope we can at least get back to a more respectable style of losing.

Melo used to be a star in the wrong place, Enes is a (limited) very good player. Jimmer is a joke.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on November 12, 2018, 12:29:30 AM
So what happened with Melo? And now what happens with Melo?


That was an awful game. Can't believe I watched the whole thing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 12, 2018, 04:21:57 AM
Tuned in a few minutes inot the 2nd half.
Knix down 26 at home to a weak ORL team missing two of its better players.  B2B for the Knix, but we're young and deep.  Are we that dependent on Tim Jr?

Mitch Rob with 9 blocks.  he has a knack for getting fingertips on them and keeping them in play, often to himself.  That last one where he was on the ground in the paint and got up to close out on a corner 3 was impressive (especially because down 5,000 at the time).
Those 9 blocks are 3 more than Kanter has all year,

And at least Knox was more involved.
Knix had just 13 assists, only 1 from their starting 5.
Not good.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 12, 2018, 09:24:57 AM
Terrence Ross, criticized on this forum at times, sure looked good.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 12, 2018, 09:35:45 AM
Was Frank injured last night?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on November 12, 2018, 11:53:31 AM
If you're going to ask serious questions, Klint, why use that name?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 12, 2018, 01:16:23 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on November 12, 2018, 09:24:57 AM
Terrence Ross, criticized on this forum at times, sure looked good.

He got hot and started making mostly contested shots.
For his career, he's averaging 1 assist, almost 1 turnover and 1 FTA.  He's a decent shooter and okay backup, I guess.  But I wouldn't want to pay him $10M, his current salary.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 12, 2018, 01:17:07 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on November 12, 2018, 09:35:45 AM
Was Frank injured last night?

Fizz was keeping him out of the splash zone as Hardaway turned into a puddle of shit on the garden floor.
Title: Mellow Down Easy
Post by: bodiddley on November 12, 2018, 01:20:38 PM
So Rockettes reportedly getting set to jettison Melo.
Dantmanbee prefers G-League Gary Clark, a two-way player currently on a two-way contract.

BOS & possibly PHI might be interested in Melo.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 12, 2018, 01:51:40 PM
Haha haha

Hahaaaaaahhhaaaahaha

Boston and Philly

Hahahaaaaa
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 12, 2018, 01:53:06 PM
Jimmer is waiting for you, Melo

(But he may be gone if you don't hurry)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 12, 2018, 01:57:36 PM
Kyrie seemingly just made overtures.
And BOS wants him happy so he'll re-sign.

PHi needs outside shooting.

A min contract involves min risk.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 12, 2018, 02:08:19 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on November 12, 2018, 09:35:45 AM
Was Frank injured last night?

Frank was lousy last night. 

His shooting was off, but what seemed to really fry Fizz's onions was when he telegraphed one of those circa 2016-2017 cross court passes, if not lazy, surely mechanical...which led to a turnover, which led to a basket, and that was the end of Ntilikina's evening. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 12, 2018, 02:09:59 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 12, 2018, 04:21:57 AM
And at least Knox was more involved.
Knix had just 13 assists, only 1 from their starting 5.
Not good.

Our average is 19 per game, dead last in the league....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 12, 2018, 03:22:49 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on November 12, 2018, 02:09:59 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 12, 2018, 04:21:57 AM
And at least Knox was more involved.
Knix had just 13 assists, only 1 from their starting 5.
Not good.

Our average is 19 per game, dead last in the league....

We don't get any assists from our Forwards.  Vonleh, Hezonja, Lance, Knox COMBINE for 3.5 ast per game
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 12, 2018, 03:24:56 PM
Mario should be more of a facilitator.  He does some good things with the ball, but usually for himself.
Title: Pop Quiz: Who are the Top 5 players Fizdale has played the most minutes per game
Post by: Kam on November 12, 2018, 03:32:06 PM
The first is obvious

1. Tim Hardaway Jr.  32.2 mpg
2. XXXXXXXXXXXX    29.0 mpg
3. XXXXXXXXXXXX    26.6 mpg
4. XXXXXXXXXXXX    26.0 mpg
5. XXXXXXXXXXXX    23.9 mpg

.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
   Take a guess?
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.


#2  Dotson
#3  Kanter
#4  Frank
#5  Trier   
Title: This just in: We're bad
Post by: Kam on November 12, 2018, 04:01:39 PM
Teams we should beat:

PHX
ATL
CLE

Teams that should beat us:

Everyone else.


This is what rebuilding looks like ---> "rebuilding"

It is a developmental year.

The kids are all right.

Title: Fast Twitch Mitch Robinson
Post by: Kam on November 12, 2018, 04:16:07 PM
Set a NY Knicks Rookie Record with 9 blocks.

Accomplished in a mere 22 minutes.

In the process he moved up from 6th place to ranking 2nd in Blocks per game for Rookies

(behind Mister-Wendell Carter)
Title: Re: Mellow Down Easy
Post by: bankshot1 on November 12, 2018, 04:24:31 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 12, 2018, 01:20:38 PM
So Rockettes reportedly getting set to jettison Melo.
Dantmanbee prefers G-League Gary Clark, a two-way player currently on a two-way contract.

BOS & possibly PHI might be interested in Melo.

Celts current problem seems too many guys, not enough minutes, and an ongoing search for the right combos.  And getting down 20+ points to good teams before mounting 17 point comebacks.

I can't see adding Melo solves anything and would only make the math harder and maybe create chemitry problems.

While I think its still pretty early I could see the Celts pursuing addition by subtraction.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on November 12, 2018, 04:27:30 PM
Its sad it think that knox and Robinson are the most valuable players we have based on age, talent, salary and potential.

they are several years away from reaching that potential.

Hardaway is clearly our best player yet his game is ONE-dimensional.

when he is on he can shoot and he can score. However he is off just as much as he is on.

career  .42%   34% from 3.  Poor.  .  Assists.  career  1.8 and rebound 2.4.  that just sucks. 

he is a erratic shooter, weak defender, terrible passer and poor rebounder.

he is our best player while KP is injured.

we are a joke.





Title: Junior.Trier
Post by: Kam on November 12, 2018, 04:50:13 PM
3 of the guys we play most play the same position;  Junior, Dot, Trier

Fantasy Trades:

1. If we can trade Tim to Miami for Waiters and Ellington we should.
2. Trade Kanter for Taj Gibson+filler and a 2nd round pick in 2020
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 12, 2018, 04:51:14 PM
Quote from: Nagel on November 12, 2018, 04:27:30 PM
Its sad it think that knox and Robinson are the most valuable players we have based on age, talent, salary and potential.

they are several years away from reaching that potential.

Hardaway is clearly our best player yet his game is ONE-dimensional.

when he is on he can shoot and he can score. However he is off just as much as he is on.

career  .42%   34% from 3.  Poor.  .  Assists.  career  1.8 and rebound 2.4.  that just sucks. 

he is a erratic shooter, weak defender, terrible passer and poor rebounder.

he is our best player while KP is injured.

we are a joke.

Actually, you are...if not a joke, surely a cliche machine. 

Timmy has improved his offensive game on every level, and while he still goes postal on occasion, forcing shots when nothing and no one is hitting, he goes to the rack more often and effectively, is a willing passer, and has improved his rebounding and defense.  Try watching a game instead of aimlessly tossing around stats. 

And sorry, but WE ARE NOT A JOKE.  We are rebuilding, and finally committed to such a process. 

Doesn't please you?

Awwwww...

Too much to bear, well, "Go Clippers" and your doom and gloom with it.  Happy trails, homie. 
Title: We are not a joke
Post by: Kam on November 12, 2018, 04:54:45 PM
Jokes are funny
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 12, 2018, 05:02:50 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 12, 2018, 03:24:56 PM
Mario should be more of a facilitator.  He does some good things with the ball, but usually for himself.

Mario is a willing and effective passer, and has made some nice hookups on the go with Enes and Noah. 

He is frustrating, because one can see the skill set, and his ability to handle the rock, bring the ball up, get to the rack, and hit the three in rhythm. 

Final grades?  Too early to tell, and remains to be seen how much Fizz can build his confidence and consistency.

With Lance Thomas out for a 4-6 weeks minimum, we stand to see a lot of Herzona & Knox on the floor at the same time, probably with Enes, though I would like to see some of a Vonleh/Robinson-Herzona-Knox front court.

Anyway, we have been more than competitive for the most part, even as we are still wet behind the ears. 

Yesterday versus Orlando was an out and out stinker...our defense cratered, and we couldn't hit the broad side of a barn from trey. 

Still, some positive signs from Knox, Herzona, Trier and Burke. 

PS: And as per Kam Sandwich, we are still right up there in the Zion Sweepstakes.  So, there is THAT. 

PPS: Remains to be seen if there is a Kristaps Trajectory.  I get the impression he does not hold with this sitting out the season scenario.  Still, leave us err on the side of caution. 

PPPS: Free Agency?  Hey, it is good to have cap space in any event, as cap space presupposes being able to absorb contracts and stockpile draft picks, if all else fails.  And while Biz thought me unduly pessimistic regarding the likes of Kemba Walker, I attended a Charlotte home game last week, and believe me, Kemba ain't going anywhere.  And now with Butler in Philly, Kyrie in Boston, Kawhi in Toronto, all emerging powerhouses in the East, who does that leave.  Kevin Durant?  [COUGH].  Vis a Vis cap space and free agency, we best have a Plan B, because right now, the cupboard appears bare. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 12, 2018, 05:09:30 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 12, 2018, 03:22:49 PM



We don't get any assists from our Forwards.  Vonleh, Hezonja, Lance, Knox COMBINE for 3.5 ast per game

Ain't just about players...Milwaukee currently 2cnd in league, 14th last year.
Title: Re: We are not a joke
Post by: chipstern on November 12, 2018, 05:11:23 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 12, 2018, 04:54:45 PM
Jokes are funny

Sometimes. 

But doom and gloom and WE SUCK, and WE ARE A JOKE and PERRY AND MILLS ARE MORONS. 

B-O-R-I-N-G. 

We are going to be struggling all year, but, with a purpose. 

Me, schmuck that I am? 

I enjoy the narrative, I respect the process, and I am at peace with the growing pains. 

For the only time in my lifetime, save the period in the mid-60s which presaged our emergence by decade's end as a perennial contender, we have committed to growing pains and a process. 

Right now, part of the process that is most frustrating, are the growing pains, most tellingly of our point competition.  At times, Frank, Emmanuel and Trey all show signs of getting it.  At other times...NOT.  Our assist stats are not an aberration.  And yes, Kemba would look mighty good, but he is the face of the Hornets franchise, and I am not sanguine about our chances. 

In any event, how did Carlos's chant go?  Play hard, lose close, tank like men...

Whatever. 

Robinson, Knox and Trier are nice XMAS gifts to find under the tree.   Raw they may all surely be. 

As DAWG suggests and Dinah Washington sang, vis a vis Milwaukee's progression, "What a difference a day makes..." 
Title: Frank[ly] Speaking
Post by: chipstern on November 12, 2018, 05:17:44 PM
Fizdale gave a hint Sunday that not all his players are naturally suited for his fast-paced mission, hence he’s had to adjust.

“It all sounds great when you come in and you say, ‘I want to do this, I want to do that,’” Fizdale said. “But you got to work with what you have right now. My job now is to try to put them in the best scenario to give them a chance to win games and to have success and grow. So our pace is definitely slow since then but I’m still emphasizing it, getting it up the court.”

One NBA scout’s observation in supporting Ntilikina is: “He’s only 20.’’
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 12, 2018, 05:27:20 PM
Quote from: Nagel on November 12, 2018, 04:27:30 PM
Its sad it think that knox and Robinson are the most valuable players we have based on age, talent, salary and potential.

they are several years away from reaching that potential.

Hardaway is clearly our best player yet his game is ONE-dimensional.

when he is on he can shoot and he can score. However he is off just as much as he is on.

career  .42%   34% from 3.  Poor.  .  Assists.  career  1.8 and rebound 2.4.  that just sucks. 

he is a erratic shooter, weak defender, terrible passer and poor rebounder.

he is our best player while KP is injured.

we are a joke.

Toss those career numbers on THJ

He is clearly a 3+ assist guy now and a gifted scorer, among the league's elite.

Should he rebound more?  Sure.  I could get behind that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 12, 2018, 05:53:03 PM
I think Fiz would be best served right now by marrying himself to a lineup.

Mudiay/Burke
Dotson/Trier/Ntilikina
Hardaway/Hezonja
Vonleh/Kanter
Robinson/add
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on November 12, 2018, 07:11:49 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 12, 2018, 04:51:14 PM
Quote from: Nagel on November 12, 2018, 04:27:30 PM
Its sad it think that knox and Robinson are the most valuable players we have based on age, talent, salary and potential.

they are several years away from reaching that potential.

Hardaway is clearly our best player yet his game is ONE-dimensional.

when he is on he can shoot and he can score. However he is off just as much as he is on.

career  .42%   34% from 3.  Poor.  .  Assists.  career  1.8 and rebound 2.4.  that just sucks. 

he is a erratic shooter, weak defender, terrible passer and poor rebounder.

he is our best player while KP is injured.

we are a joke.

Actually, you are...if not a joke, surely a cliche machine. 

Timmy has improved his offensive game on every level, and while he still goes postal on occasion, forcing shots when nothing and no one is hitting, he goes to the rack more often and effectively, is a willing passer, and has improved his rebounding and defense.  Try watching a game instead of aimlessly tossing around stats. 

And sorry, but WE ARE NOT A JOKE.  We are rebuilding, and finally committed to such a process. 

Doesn't please you?

Awwwww...

Too much to bear, well, "Go Clippers" and your doom and gloom with it.  Happy trails, homie.

being called a cliche machine by Mr. Chip Stern is quite accurate.  If being a cliche means saying the same thing year after year. 

Wonder why that is?  is it because we are terrible year after year? 

our last 5 years have been a torture session devised by the Taliban.

wins  156  losses   264.

this year we are on our way to another 50 plus loss year and our 6th year out of the playoffs.   the Knicks are the cliche.

i have praised our current draft but like a good grape it will take time to ripen into a fine wine.

IMO we have drafted truly  poorly other than KP ( i believe we lucked into that one) since the 2005 pick of Dlee.

Last year players refused to even talk to us about coming to NY.

so i guess I am a cliche.

believe it or not I hope I won't have to write the same thing next year.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 12, 2018, 07:22:24 PM
Hardaway was a good draft pick.

Turned him into Grant, which could have been better.
Title: Uh, Get Real
Post by: chipstern on November 12, 2018, 07:47:13 PM
So, you propose a rotation with no Kevin Knox. 

Is that to make room for Jimmer? 
Title: Nagel
Post by: chipstern on November 12, 2018, 07:48:37 PM
You don't discern any key differences between this year and those since Jason Kidd left town.

Bets of luck. 
Title: Re: We are not a joke
Post by: Kam on November 12, 2018, 07:57:56 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 12, 2018, 05:11:23 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 12, 2018, 04:54:45 PM
Jokes are funny

Sometimes. 

But doom and gloom and WE SUCK, and WE ARE A JOKE and PERRY AND MILLS ARE MORONS. 

B-O-R-I-N-G. 

We are going to be struggling all year, but, with a purpose. 


Yeah anyone who thought we were gonna be good didn't predict a high win total. 

This is the type of season you have when you're developing young guys.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on November 12, 2018, 07:59:22 PM
Does Dwight Howard look like he's lost a ton of weight?
Title: Re: Frank[ly] Speaking
Post by: Kam on November 12, 2018, 08:20:05 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 12, 2018, 05:17:44 PM
Fizdale gave a hint Sunday that not all his players are naturally suited for his fast-paced mission, hence he’s had to adjust.


One NBA scout’s observation in supporting Ntilikina is: “He’s only 20.’’

Frank better "get it" soon because no matter his age, his contract demands he show strides or the Knicks won't do the early extension thing and he heads towards journeyman status.  He has this year and next.  It's why i was so keen on him getting more reps last year to accelerate development.  We are going to have to decide soon on frank.  It isn't looking good but I hope this is just a sophomore slump.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 12, 2018, 08:24:47 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on October 22, 2018, 02:04:14 AM

Los 20
Les 21
Biz 23
Ade 23
BoD 23
Bank 24
Nagel 25
Zup 30
Yank 30
Ike 31
J Straw 31
Early 32
Chip 33
Kam 33
Fac 34
Klint 36

So you were in on the joke?
Title: Re: Nagel
Post by: Nagel on November 12, 2018, 09:04:18 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 12, 2018, 07:48:37 PM
You don't discern any key differences between this year and those since Jason Kidd left town.

Bets of luck.

did i say i liked our picks this year?

or did you simply leave that out.

bets of luck to you as well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on November 12, 2018, 09:04:37 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 12, 2018, 08:24:47 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on October 22, 2018, 02:04:14 AM

Los 20
Les 21
Biz 23
Ade 23
BoD 23
Bank 24
Nagel 25
Zup 30
Yank 30
Ike 31
J Straw 31
Early 32
Chip 33
Kam 33
Fac 34
Klint 36

So you were in on the joke?

always.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on November 12, 2018, 09:53:05 PM
Quote from: Nagel on November 12, 2018, 09:04:37 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 12, 2018, 08:24:47 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on October 22, 2018, 02:04:14 AM

Los 20
Les 21
Biz 23
Ade 23
BoD 23
Bank 24
Nagel 25
Zup 30
Yank 30
Ike 31
J Straw 31
Early 32
Chip 33
Kam 33
Fac 34
Klint 36

So you were in on the joke?

always.

I was originally at 22, but moved down to 20 cause the devil made me do it.

I mean, Les made me do it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 12, 2018, 11:08:13 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on November 12, 2018, 09:53:05 PM
Quote from: Nagel on November 12, 2018, 09:04:37 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 12, 2018, 08:24:47 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on October 22, 2018, 02:04:14 AM

Los 20
Les 21
Biz 23
Ade 23
BoD 23
Bank 24
Nagel 25
Zup 30
Yank 30
Ike 31
J Straw 31
Early 32
Chip 33
Kam 33
Fac 34
Klint 36

So you were in on the joke?

always.

I was originally at 22, but moved down to 20 cause the devil made me do it.

I mean, Les made me do it.

I think 22 is the sweet spot. Me & Carlos were just showing off. Biz, Ade, BoD and Bank were wildly optimistic.


** the sweet spot unless you think KP is coming back for half a season. You really think he's coming back for half a season? Or play even 25 games with a .285 team? He's gonna risk being a boogie cousins or Caris Lavert with a max on the line? You nuts. Mixed nuts. Dry roasted nuts. Salted or unsalted nuts.


**** c'mon, these days, folks sit out entire seasons for a tender little tweaked quad
Title: Re: Frank[ly] Speaking
Post by: lesterluv on November 12, 2018, 11:15:11 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 12, 2018, 08:20:05 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 12, 2018, 05:17:44 PM
Fizdale gave a hint Sunday that not all his players are naturally suited for his fast-paced mission, hence he’s had to adjust.


One NBA scout’s observation in supporting Ntilikina is: “He’s only 20.’’


Frank better "get it" soon because no matter his age, his contract demands he show strides or the Knicks won't do the early extension thing and he heads towards journeyman status.  He has this year and next.  It's why i was so keen on him getting more reps last year to accelerate development.  We are going to have to decide soon on frank.  It isn't looking good but I hope this is just a sophomore slump.

Soon as in like 60-80 more starts at PG? OK. Fair enough. I actually think it's looking damn good for his first 7.


*or 5 or 10 or whatever it is ... almost astoundingly good, if we're being honest, considering who he is on the floor with most of the time
Title: Re: Frank[ly] Speaking
Post by: Kam on November 13, 2018, 12:54:16 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on November 12, 2018, 11:15:11 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 12, 2018, 08:20:05 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 12, 2018, 05:17:44 PM
Fizdale gave a hint Sunday that not all his players are naturally suited for his fast-paced mission, hence he’s had to adjust.


One NBA scout’s observation in supporting Ntilikina is: “He’s only 20.’’


Frank better "get it" soon because no matter his age, his contract demands he show strides or the Knicks won't do the early extension thing and he heads towards journeyman status.  He has this year and next.  It's why i was so keen on him getting more reps last year to accelerate development.  We are going to have to decide soon on frank.  It isn't looking good but I hope this is just a sophomore slump.

Soon as in like 60-80 more starts at PG? OK. Fair enough. I actually think it's looking damn good for his first 7.


*or 5 or 10 or whatever it is ... almost astoundingly good, if we're being honest, considering who he is on the floor with most of the time

He is slumping bad right now with his shot and it is affecting the rest of his game.   If he misses early he loses confidence in his entire game.  You say 60-80 more starts and i hope he gets those but with Trier, Burke, and (clears throat) Mudiay also options at the PG it may not be Frank's to keep.

I'm a Frank fan. I want him to keep his spot.  But he has to change his offensive mentality.  Somehowz.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 13, 2018, 02:22:45 AM
I would not object to a DLeague stint for Frank about now. Bring him back when he’s put up 20 and 10 in a win down there two or three times.

It didn’t hurt Hardaway’s career or or production when the Hawks did it with him. We have a pretty good system there for helping guards.

It also opens time to give run to the set of guards, Mudiay, Burke, and Baker, who are likely on the cut block to make room for Trier.

We may not be able to win without his D, but when he’s giving goose eggs his D doesn’t help us win.
Title: Re: Frank[ly] Speaking
Post by: lesterluv on November 13, 2018, 02:27:28 AM
Quote from: Kam on November 13, 2018, 12:54:16 AM

He is slumping bad right now with his shot and it is affecting the rest of his game.   If he misses early he loses confidence in his entire game.  You say 60-80 more starts and i hope he gets those but with Trier, Burke, and (clears throat) Mudiay also options at the PG it may not be Frank's to keep.

I'm a Frank fan. I want him to keep his spot.  But he has to change his offensive mentality. 


Mudiay and Burke have been in the league for years, with well over 100 games started each and both look like their upper cap is crap. They are not options. They are roster filler. You got one guy who has any potential and who already looks like Tony Allen on D. Did you see his D in the Raptors first quarter? That was one game ago so it couldn't be much of a slump. A slump is when THJ looks like shit for a full month. What you see is a PG in his 7th career start at his position.


*** You know who is in a slump? Fizwiz...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 13, 2018, 02:38:43 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 13, 2018, 02:22:45 AM

It also opens time to give run to the set of guards, Mudiay, Burke, and Baker, who are likely on the cut block to make room for Trier.

Jeezus that would be hard to watch. And to find out what, who your 5th or 6th guard is?

Quote from: facilitatorn on November 13, 2018, 02:22:45 AM
We may not be able to win without his D, but when he’s giving goose eggs his D doesn’t help us win.

actually, his D can still help us to win, even if he's giving goose eggs, .... but it's very clear that winning isn't the priority this year anyway so why is that a concern? Do Mudiay, Burke & Baker take you from .285 to what, .315? Fantastic, we achieved absolutely nothing but moving one spot further away from Zion...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 13, 2018, 04:02:33 AM
Les, I think we’d take more losses while Frank was in GLeague if he were sent down. I think he would be better and we could see more wins once he got back.

I could see someone taking Burke off our hands for a small off-roster asset, like some overseas guy’s draft rights or a highly protected distant 2nd rounder, especially if he can put up 10 & 5 for a few weeks shooting a decent percentage.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 13, 2018, 08:03:39 AM
Re:  Ntilikina

Backers like to note how other execs like him so much.

I think we will get to see just how much when Frank becomes RFA.

Shump redux.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 13, 2018, 08:07:50 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 13, 2018, 04:02:33 AM
Les, I think we’d take more losses while Frank was in GLeague if he were sent down. I think he would be better and we could see more wins once he got back.

Ok, Ok, I can watch G League games right?

*** I had to suffer through 99 Howard Eisely starts & 228 Rory Sparrow starts. Why can't I watch 75 Frankie starts? Is the floor Charlie Ward (272 starts) or Darrell Walker (101 starts) or something much lower? I enjoyed those 373 starts for the most part. Or maybe much higher? His stroke his much sweeter than either (though they rarely go in) as are the growing palette of moves in the lane (which he rarely ever utilizes). Maybe he's a chump...I don't care. I want to watch, and if he somehow hurts the team THAT MUCH we get Zion Williamson. This is by definition a no-lose situation!

**** Haters are projecting the floor is Frank Williams (3 starts). Maybe they are right ... I want to find out ... the right way.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 13, 2018, 08:11:17 AM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on November 13, 2018, 08:03:39 AM
Re:  Ntilikina

Backers like to note how other execs like him so much.

I think we will get to see just how much when Frank becomes RFA.

Shump redux.

I would surely like us to know how much we like him when that day comes because we've given our own "failed" lottery pick nearly as much play as we've given to the failed lottery picks of others.

**will be interesting to see how our Frenchboy bounces back from Wizdale's tough love 6 min. pull
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 13, 2018, 08:42:51 AM
".....looks like Tony Allen on D"

Come on, man.  Really?

Watch the possessions.

Kid has long arms and pretty good instincts but much to learn on technique and team play.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 13, 2018, 09:01:07 AM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on November 13, 2018, 08:42:51 AM
".....looks like Tony Allen on D"

Come on, man.  Really?

Watch the possessions.

Kid has long arms and pretty good instincts but much to learn on technique and team play.

ok.ok..a budding perhaps.. but he is really good. Keep in mind, it is so much harder to play defense now. Practically outlawed. That trend has accelerated even just since Tony Allen's very recent Hay Day.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 13, 2018, 10:04:44 AM
play the guy we drafted high for a good long while and see what happens, no brain surgery needed here
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 13, 2018, 10:04:57 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on November 13, 2018, 08:11:17 AM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on November 13, 2018, 08:03:39 AM
Re:  Ntilikina

Backers like to note how other execs like him so much.

I think we will get to see just how much when Frank becomes RFA.

Shump redux.

I would surely like us to know how much we like him when that day comes because we've given our own "failed" lottery pick nearly as much play as we've given to the failed lottery picks of others.

**will be interesting to see how our Frenchboy bounces back from Wizdale's tough love 6 min. pull

You know Frank played a lot last year, right?  You act as if it were 10 minutes a night
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 13, 2018, 10:14:38 AM
Ntilikina is 11th in minutes among players drafted in 2017

6th in assists
8th in steals
17th in points
17th in 3 pointers made
21st in free throws made
6th in turnovers
91st (all 2017 rookies) in FG%
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 13, 2018, 10:18:46 AM
Minutes

Simmons
Mitchell
Tatum
Kuzma
Brooks
Fox
Smith Jr
Bogdanovic
Jackson
Ball
NTILIKINA
Markaanen
Ju Jackson
Hart
Collins
Title: Shout Out
Post by: chipstern on November 13, 2018, 10:24:03 AM
Heartbreaking injury for Nets Caris LeVert.

Kid was playing at an all-star level and establishing himself as the franchise bell cow. 

God knows he was hooping in nuking the Knicks.

Seemed like a great kid as well. 

You could tell from the reaction of his team mates, where the reaction went well beyond hoops. 

Hey, Caris, stay strong.  Zach Lavine had a terrible injury and he came back like a motherfucker. 

You will, too.   
 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 13, 2018, 11:59:35 AM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on November 13, 2018, 10:14:38 AM
Ntilikina is 11th in minutes among players drafted in 2017

6th in assists
8th in steals
17th in points
17th in 3 pointers made
21st in free throws made
6th in turnovers
91st (all 2017 rookies) in FG%

Great  ... now give him some more minutes.


*** and if the minute clock is up on Frankie.... the minute clock has expired on mudiay about 39 times over..
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 13, 2018, 01:11:51 PM
Frank has a conscience.  He stops playing confidently when he misses his first shot. 

Allonzo Trier has no conscience.  He will miss his first 6 shots and still make 5 of his next 6.


More minutes won't necessarily change that for Frank.

He needs coaching.  Shooter Psychology.  ANd i liked the idea of G-League time to build a scorer's confidence.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 13, 2018, 01:20:18 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 13, 2018, 01:11:51 PM
Frank has a conscience.  He stops playing confidently when he misses his first shot. 

Allonzo Trier has no conscience.  He will miss his first 6 shots and still make 5 of his next 6.


More minutes won't necessarily change that for Frank.

He needs coaching.  Shooter Psychology.  ANd i liked the idea of G-League time to build a scorer's confidence.

Maybe, maybe, you and Fac are right. But I think he's been handled all wrong. Repeatedly pushed aside for other teams' junky rejects. Me, I would let him play forever and only pull him if he doesn't probe the lane five times every five minutes.

But I didn't see the game, so for all I know that's what the yank was about. Let's see what happens next.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 13, 2018, 01:21:52 PM
I agree with you that Frank should've played more at the PG last year.  I like Frank a lot but he might be a bench guy if Trier takes his job.  They double-teamed Trier in his first start.  And that was when THjr was injured.  I want to see a lineup of:

Trier
Junior
Knox
Vonleh
Robinson

For five games or so....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 13, 2018, 02:30:09 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 13, 2018, 01:21:52 PM
I agree with you that Frank should've played more at the PG last year.  I like Frank a lot but he might be a bench guy if Trier takes his job.  They double-teamed Trier in his first start.  And that was when THjr was injured.  I want to see a lineup of:

Trier
Junior
Knox
Vonleh
Robinson

For five games or so....

That would be an interesting look. Mudiay, Burke, Dotson, Mario, and Kant would be the bench squad. One more functional front court defender would really help.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 13, 2018, 02:34:56 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 13, 2018, 02:30:09 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 13, 2018, 01:21:52 PM
I agree with you that Frank should've played more at the PG last year.  I like Frank a lot but he might be a bench guy if Trier takes his job.  They double-teamed Trier in his first start.  And that was when THjr was injured.  I want to see a lineup of:

Trier
Junior
Knox
Vonleh
Robinson

For five games or so....

That would be an interesting look. Mudiay, Burke, Dotson, Mario, and Kant would be the bench squad. One more functional front court defender would really help.

I'd bring Frank off the bench too. Put him on defense vs 3s and some 4s.  Unless you have him in G league.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 13, 2018, 02:48:08 PM
I kinda have him in the gleague. There is a tightrope a good pg has to work out of tiptoeing the line of both making his teammates shine while asserting control of them and the game. The process of getting this is often hit or miss for young PGs. Rather than accumulate chemistry misses figuring it out at the highest level with and against more mature teams, do it where he faces less pressure and where guys will accept more leadership from a young unorthodox player.

By the way, Kornet is absolutely killing it in the GLeague. 18/9/4 with 3 blocks on 58% shooting and 50% on 7 threes a game. He might be how we get away from Kanter in a little bit.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on November 13, 2018, 03:31:48 PM
Terry rosier will be a RFA next year and will receive deals boston cannot swallow.

if Irving signs as expected and Smart is already signed Boston is fixed at the point and will be paying over 50 million for those 2.

so why not offer Frank and Burke to Boston for Terry now.

If Terry hits the RFA market NY should be involved heavily unless KD or Kawhi wants NY ( both unlikely)


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Urethra_Franklin on November 13, 2018, 03:55:22 PM
Why is Kanter coming off the bench?  His defense is no weaker than Timmy's
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 13, 2018, 04:02:42 PM
Quote from: Urethra_Franklin on November 13, 2018, 03:55:22 PM
Why is Kanter coming off the bench?  His defense is no weaker than Timmy's

Why put two below average defenders on the court at the same time
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on November 13, 2018, 04:47:26 PM
Quote from: Nagel on November 13, 2018, 03:31:48 PM
Terry rosier will be a RFA next year and will receive deals boston cannot swallow.

if Irving signs as expected and Smart is already signed Boston is fixed at the point and will be paying over 50 million for those 2.

so why not offer Frank and Burke to Boston for Terry now.

If Terry hits the RFA market NY should be involved heavily unless KD or Kawhi wants NY ( both unlikely)

I like Rozier a lot, and he'll have lots of interested as a RFA, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if Ainge traded Rozier before next year, as it might be the addition by subtraction solution (too much depth/division of 240) that yields the best return to the Celts. I would be a little surprised though if he traded Rozier within the division, but if the return was good enough... 


 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 13, 2018, 04:53:08 PM
Fizz has gone with Tim Jr surrounded by 4 defenders.

Tim Jr can be hidden on whichever wing is weakest (except when Fizz decided Tim should guard LaVert on the final play).  As a C, Kant is the backline rim defender and just too porous down low, while teams can also abuse him with stretchy Bigs or involving him in the PnR.
Besides, Tim's D isn't as bad as Kants.

I like the idea of a former starter coming in and dominating off the bench.  We saw that with Valunciunas the other night.  Lou Williams and Craw (after crying about the bench role in NYC) made a career out of that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 13, 2018, 05:16:46 PM
Our best two defenders... Robinson and Ntilikina ... are also offensive liabilities. 
I don't know why Coach doesn't call for more Pick and Rolls between them.
Frank is supposed to be good at that.
Why can't we get some lob slams.
lob city?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on November 13, 2018, 06:54:49 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on November 13, 2018, 04:47:26 PM
Quote from: Nagel on November 13, 2018, 03:31:48 PM
Terry rosier will be a RFA next year and will receive deals boston cannot swallow.

if Irving signs as expected and Smart is already signed Boston is fixed at the point and will be paying over 50 million for those 2.

so why not offer Frank and Burke to Boston for Terry now.

If Terry hits the RFA market NY should be involved heavily unless KD or Kawhi wants NY ( both unlikely)

boston loses Terry with no return unless they make a deal.

suns interested.

I like Rozier a lot, and he'll have lots of interested as a RFA, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if Ainge traded Rozier before next year, as it might be the addition by subtraction solution (too much depth/division of 240) that yields the best return to the Celts. I would be a little surprised though if he traded Rozier within the division, but if the return was good enough...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 13, 2018, 07:25:26 PM
Suns, Magic, Knix the teams that need a starting PG.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 13, 2018, 07:57:02 PM
Sexton is smoking Kemba Walker.
Title: Kwak
Post by: Kam on November 13, 2018, 08:07:13 PM
Forum Fave Kemba is 1-9 at the half.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on November 13, 2018, 08:10:56 PM
Quote from: Nagel on November 13, 2018, 06:54:49 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on November 13, 2018, 04:47:26 PM
Quote from: Nagel on November 13, 2018, 03:31:48 PM
Terry rosier will be a RFA next year and will receive deals boston cannot swallow.

if Irving signs as expected and Smart is already signed Boston is fixed at the point and will be paying over 50 million for those 2.

so why not offer Frank and Burke to Boston for Terry now.

If Terry hits the RFA market NY should be involved heavily unless KD or Kawhi wants NY ( both unlikely)

boston loses Terry with no return unless they make a deal.

suns interested.

I like Rozier a lot, and he'll have lots of interested as a RFA, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if Ainge traded Rozier before next year, as it might be the addition by subtraction solution (too much depth/division of 240) that yields the best return to the Celts. I would be a little surprised though if he traded Rozier within the division, but if the return was good enough...

I had read Suns, Magic, Spurs and 3-4 other teams were interested in Rozier.

So it seems there's a mrket for Ainge to play in.
My guess is Ainge trades Rozier, the question is pre-trade deadline, or match/sign and trade.

I'd guess before February deadline.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 13, 2018, 10:19:05 PM
Walker 2-16 7 pts
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on November 14, 2018, 01:08:48 AM
Quote from: Kam on November 13, 2018, 10:19:05 PM
Walker 2-16 7 pts

Don't be Kiid.
Title: Re: Junior.Trier
Post by: thebizneverloses on November 14, 2018, 01:20:24 AM
Quote from: Kam on November 12, 2018, 04:50:13 PM
3 of the guys we play most play the same position;  Junior, Dot, Trier

Fantasy Trades:

1. If we can trade Tim to Miami for Waiters and Ellington we should.
2. Trade Kanter for Taj Gibson+filler and a 2nd round pick in 2020

That THJr trade is pretty terrible. I'm only moving him for cap space. Otherwise, he's a good (if overpaid) player, he's dedicated, he improves a little ever year. He's a good guy to have on the team, unless you want space. Why take those contracts on when rebuilding?

Similarly, the Kanter for Taj deal doesn't make sense for either Minny or NY. Why take on that salary?

We stretched Noah rather than buy him out. Had we bought him out, it would have meant we were hedging on 2019 FA with an eye to 2020 FA. Instead, we have nearly 7MM in dead cap money in both 2019 and 2020. That means the move only makes sense if we're spending money this summer.

Durant is a fair #1 target, but the odds are long, longer than Lebron to LA.

With Butler, Klay and Kyrie all presumably off the board, I think Kemba is the next priority. Chip believes there is no chance Kemba walks. I think he probably stays in Charlotte (not because of the adoration, he'll get that in NY, but because a small point guard has to take the fifth year if he can get it), but NY will offer him a better basketball and marketing situation than Charlotte, and some guys really want to come home. He'd be a fantastic fit even if we didn't add anyone else but our lottery pick (not a strong year for PGs, although the kid from Vandy looks interesting so far). If those first three guys aren't off the board, I think the Knicks end up on the short list for each.

If not Kemba, Rozier, if he isn't traded to the Magic or Suns, would be an interesting target. We'd have to overpay to ensure Boston doesn't match, and I worry that point guards do better under Stevens than under other systems. But he can ball.

I'm not interested in Boogie for this particular team, nor DeAndre. Middleton is great, but not the right team for him either (plus Milwaukee probably over pays). I think Bledsoe only leaves for one for one of the LA teams. Surely Mirotic and (NYer!) Tobias Harris won't actually be available. Maybe Rubio if we get desperate to spend money

Dark horse targets: Delon Wright, Julius Randle. Would be pretty pleased with adding those two and, say, Cam Reddish to this squad for next year, while keeping Vonleh and one of Mudiay or Hezonja if we aren't able to create a tonne of cap space, win the lottery, or sing an A-list free agent. That would be a fun squad.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 14, 2018, 04:23:35 AM
Jaren Jackson Jr. looks pretty good for MEMf.
A large guy at 6'11" 245, but pretty mobile.

The two games I saw had his season high in blocks -- 5 each.
Utah game was his first double-double.

He somewhat plays in spurts, but he's hard to stop when engaged.
But they rarely run any plays for him, so he's mostly just taking opportunistic stuff at this point.

A good help defender.  Averaging nearly 2 blocks per.
Really filling a role nicely for the surprising Grrrlz.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 14, 2018, 08:12:23 AM
There were murmurs pre draft that multiple teams looked to deal up for J Jax.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 14, 2018, 09:48:05 AM
You do actually get cap space with the Hardaway-Waiters deal.

But a bit silly to deal down a 20 PER to a 10.

Plus - Waiters has his positives when right but have to wonder why one of his nicknames is HEADACHE.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 14, 2018, 09:54:12 AM
Minus Melo Rockets played just 8 guys last night in 10 point road win.

Tucker got 40 minutes and Isiah Hartenstein was 8th man, playing 11 and change

Gordon is back and played 33. Now we can see HOU take shape.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 14, 2018, 11:18:53 AM
It's been one month and Noah is still un-signed.

Does anyone still think we should have held on to him for a trade?

Stretching him helps our cap figure a lot this summer.

If we don't use our cap space then stretching him was a mistake.
Title: As Spock Might Opine, That's ILLOGICAL
Post by: chipstern on November 14, 2018, 11:38:08 AM
Quote from: Kam on November 14, 2018, 11:18:53 AM
It's been one month and Noah is still un-signed.

Does anyone still think we should have held on to him for a trade?

Stretching him helps our cap figure a lot this summer.

If we don't use our cap space then stretching him was a mistake.

That's illogical.

Keeping Noah under any circumstances meant we'd have had lousy chemistry with an unhappy relic on the roster...an unhappy relic watching Mitchell Robinson, a mere puppy, getting all of his minutes, let alone Enes Kanter. 

Also, as per roster slots? 

How does keeping Noah impact the evolution of Robinson and Trier. 

He didn't want to be here...didn't want to be a mentor. 

He had to go.

The whole issue of whether or not we deploy our cap space this coming summer is irrelevant. 

Again, if cap space means we might have a shot, however remote, at a Kevin Durant, well, you have to pull the trigger on Noah.

If, as free agents are falling by the wayside, there is no one worth extending our cap space on, or perhaps, secondary targets such as Kemba Walker stay put, calling the decision to jettison Noah a mistake is just over wrought. 

As has been discussed, having any significant reservoir of cap space allows the Knicks to facilitate trades as a third party, wherein, our ability to absorb contracts, allowing the numbers in complex transactions to work, means we could receive additional #1 and #2 draft picks for our troubles. 

You want to agonize over something?

Light some incense and a prayer candle on behalf of our own beloved Courtney Lee, that he might experience good health and a full recovery from a Ron Baker-administered neck injury, wherein he could strut his stuff out on the Garden floor, and thus engender a trade to Philly, who are in some need of bench depth and long range shooting with their recent trade. 

Would be a great landing spot for Lee, and if we could get an expiring contract (whom we could immediately cut) and perhaps some sort of draft compensation, well, win-win all around...oh, and much more cap space next summer. 

You are in tight with the Divine. 

Make it happen Kam. 

Ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on November 14, 2018, 12:34:27 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 14, 2018, 11:18:53 AM
It's been one month and Noah is still un-signed.

Does anyone still think we should have held on to him for a trade?

Stretching him helps our cap figure a lot this summer.

If we don't use our cap space then stretching him was a mistake.

Yes, I do. I would have sent him home with pay but away from the team*, and I would have waived Baker and Kornet to make room for Trier.

No chemistry issues, no long-term cap hit.

Then I would have either traded him with picks or stretched him next summer if I needed the cap space. And if I didn't need the cap space, I would have just bought him out next summer.

*Unless he agreed to a generous buyout, like Luol Deng did.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on November 14, 2018, 01:05:23 PM
Knicks might be a bit better with Mudiay starting at point, but, for all the reasons Les said, I'd prefer it were still Frank.

I'm agnostic on Dotson vs Knox starting.
Title: Postscript
Post by: chipstern on November 14, 2018, 01:07:26 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on November 14, 2018, 12:34:27 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 14, 2018, 11:18:53 AM
It's been one month and Noah is still un-signed.

Does anyone still think we should have held on to him for a trade?

Stretching him helps our cap figure a lot this summer.

If we don't use our cap space then stretching him was a mistake.

Yes, I do. I would have sent him home with pay but away from the team*, and I would have waived Baker and Kornet to make room for Trier.

No chemistry issues, no long-term cap hit.

Then I would have either traded him with picks or stretched him next summer if I needed the cap space. And if I didn't need the cap space, I would have just bought him out next summer.

* Unless he agreed to a generous buyout, like Luol Deng did.

Which apparently he did not. 

And there has clearly been a stampede to add him to a veteran contending roster, has there not? 

Waived Kornet? 

You over estimate cap space. 

One man's opinion, anyway. 

And Kornet might yet evolve into a decent rotation player, particularly, if as everyone seems to project, Kanter is out the door come next June. 

CRYING

OVER

SPILLED

MILK

What's done is done.  Get over it. 

Wake me up when Noah gets a contract offer. 
Title: Caption This
Post by: Kam on November 14, 2018, 02:21:02 PM
(https://thenypost.files.wordpress.com/2018/11/frank-ntilikina1.jpg?quality=90&strip=all&w=300)

So...  am i allowed to shoot the ball?
Title: The Unwritten Rules
Post by: Kam on November 14, 2018, 02:25:18 PM
Denver has last four straight... after going 9-1 since  Murray went for 50 at the last second.

Don't mess with the Baskektball God
Title: PhiLEEdelphia?
Post by: Kam on November 14, 2018, 04:53:57 PM
Courtney a 76'er?  Are we trying to get him to play for every Atlantic Division team?


After PHI he needs to play for Toronto and he would have the cycle complete.


OMMMMMMMM
Title: Trouble in Paradise
Post by: Kam on November 14, 2018, 05:00:29 PM
If the season ended today we might have a shot at KD.
Title: Toilet Bowl
Post by: Kam on November 14, 2018, 08:18:07 PM
Wizards are spanking the Cavs by 20 at the half.

Houston and Washington both bouncing back to form.
Title: No D
Post by: Kam on November 14, 2018, 08:20:08 PM
No defense In the new starting lineup
Title: Trier is the first substitution
Post by: Kam on November 14, 2018, 08:23:59 PM
For Vonleh who wasn't in foul trouble.  He was just sitting on a 6 Trillion.  6 minutes.  Zero stats.

One minute later in comes Kanter and Mario  for Knoxy and Mitch

Kanter gets some polite OKC applause
Title: Five possessions later
Post by: Kam on November 14, 2018, 08:27:00 PM
Frank and Dotson in for Bootie Guy and Junior

Trier still hasn't touched the ball!

Mudiay froze him out.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 14, 2018, 08:34:05 PM
Kanter kant hit jumpshots.  Wasting a nice bounce pass from The Knickilina.
Title: PG Wanted
Post by: Kam on November 14, 2018, 08:44:56 PM
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSr2c2QTYL79nsw37t91HixKeCbsSgTrdmepaMSKumSAXb4p0J0bg)
Title: Hardwood Mitch hurt again
Post by: Kam on November 14, 2018, 08:46:30 PM
Ankle.Snakebit

Hardluck mitch
Title: Mitch aint no bitch
Post by: Kam on November 14, 2018, 08:58:11 PM
Back in the game after a short stint to get the ankle re-taped.
Title: Getting waxed in Oklahoma
Post by: Kam on November 14, 2018, 09:32:48 PM
By George. I think he's got it.
Title: Georgie have mercy!
Post by: carlos123 on November 14, 2018, 09:38:49 PM
This is painful to watch.
Title: Re: Postscript
Post by: thebizneverloses on November 15, 2018, 12:27:57 AM
Quote from: chipstern on November 14, 2018, 01:07:26 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on November 14, 2018, 12:34:27 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 14, 2018, 11:18:53 AM
It's been one month and Noah is still un-signed.

Does anyone still think we should have held on to him for a trade?

Stretching him helps our cap figure a lot this summer.

If we don't use our cap space then stretching him was a mistake.

Yes, I do. I would have sent him home with pay but away from the team*, and I would have waived Baker and Kornet to make room for Trier.

No chemistry issues, no long-term cap hit.

Then I would have either traded him with picks or stretched him next summer if I needed the cap space. And if I didn't need the cap space, I would have just bought him out next summer.

* Unless he agreed to a generous buyout, like Luol Deng did.

Which apparently he did not. 

And there has clearly been a stampede to add him to a veteran contending roster, has there not? 

Waived Kornet? 

You over estimate cap space. 

One man's opinion, anyway. 

And Kornet might yet evolve into a decent rotation player, particularly, if as everyone seems to project, Kanter is out the door come next June. 

CRYING

OVER

SPILLED

MILK

What's done is done.  Get over it. 

Wake me up when Noah gets a contract offer.

You don't get it Chip - It's not about anyone wanting Noah, nobody does. You wouldn't trade him to a team that thought he could play, but rather to a team with cap space next summer along with a pick if you've got someone lined up to sign. Or, not, but you hold off on stretching him unless you know you need the cap space.

And if I overestimate cap space, what about management that stretched him for cap space before they knew if they could us it?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 15, 2018, 12:59:46 AM
I would not want to offload picks to offload Noah.  Even if it meant a Superstar.  Now we can get the Superstar without picks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 15, 2018, 08:35:01 AM
"....for cap space before they knew if they could use it"

Que?
Title: Re: Postscript
Post by: chipstern on November 15, 2018, 09:46:28 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on November 15, 2018, 12:27:57 AM
Quote from: chipstern on November 14, 2018, 01:07:26 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on November 14, 2018, 12:34:27 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 14, 2018, 11:18:53 AM
It's been one month and Noah is still un-signed.

Does anyone still think we should have held on to him for a trade?

Stretching him helps our cap figure a lot this summer.

If we don't use our cap space then stretching him was a mistake.

Yes, I do. I would have sent him home with pay but away from the team*, and I would have waived Baker and Kornet to make room for Trier.

No chemistry issues, no long-term cap hit.

Then I would have either traded him with picks or stretched him next summer if I needed the cap space. And if I didn't need the cap space, I would have just bought him out next summer.

* Unless he agreed to a generous buyout, like Luol Deng did.

Which apparently he did not. 

And there has clearly been a stampede to add him to a veteran contending roster, has there not? 

Waived Kornet? 

You over estimate cap space. 

One man's opinion, anyway. 

And Kornet might yet evolve into a decent rotation player, particularly, if as everyone seems to project, Kanter is out the door come next June. 

CRYING

OVER

SPILLED

MILK

What's done is done.  Get over it. 

Wake me up when Noah gets a contract offer.

You don't get it Chip - It's not about anyone wanting Noah, nobody does. You wouldn't trade him to a team that thought he could play, but rather to a team with cap space next summer along with a pick if you've got someone lined up to sign. Or, not, but you hold off on stretching him unless you know you need the cap space.

And if I overestimate cap space, what about management that stretched him for cap space before they knew if they could us it?

Not ONE team has so far reached out to Noah, now that he can be had for the Veteran's Minimum. 

And yet YOU, as Knicks GM would have packaged him with a draft choice [presumably a #1, as nothing else would suffice] in the name of your grand designs and superior cap management. 

I DO GET IT. 

[Response & Invective DELETED]
Title: Cap Space
Post by: chipstern on November 15, 2018, 10:08:23 AM
Biz answered his own question, basically.

You trade him to a team that can absorb his salary.

And that team gets a #1 for their troubles.

Not unlike the position OUR KNICKS will be in next summer, whether or not we cop a Kevin Durant. 

Cap space?

GOOD. 

Good for more than just signing free agents. 

GET IT BIZ? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 15, 2018, 11:16:36 AM
Surrendering a #1 to dump Noah ... (to save 6 mil two summers in a row)  would be ALMOST as bad as Surrendering a #1 to acquire Andrea Barniarney.
Title: Trending Low
Post by: Kam on November 15, 2018, 11:26:01 AM
Averaging 19 assists per game before last night's shake up that produced... 18 assists.
Title: If Fitzdel doesnt start Trier soon
Post by: Kam on November 15, 2018, 11:28:37 AM
He should be fined, fired, and fillet.
Title: Re: If Fitzdel doesnt start Trier soon
Post by: chipstern on November 15, 2018, 12:14:34 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 15, 2018, 11:28:37 AM
He should be fined, fired, and fillet.

Stretched, perhaps? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on November 15, 2018, 12:48:06 PM
talking about Noah is avoidance at it's best.

Berman 's column mentioned a few more salient points.  like defense.  like lack of a assists.

dismiss him all you want.

however you can't dismiss the fact his team does not play like a team.

we however getting closer to Zion territory which is a good thing.

Berman
OKLAHOMA CITY — Five observations from Wednesday’s 128-103 loss to the Thunder.

1. Bill Parcells’ fabled line is: You are what your record says you are. It now holds true for the Knicks. They are as bad as 4-11 suggests following three straight blowout losses in which they were outscored by a combined 67 points. The Knicks haven’t owned a lead in 10 straight quarters. No longer can coach David Fizdale talk about the club never being out of a game. In seven of their first eight losses, the Knicks were at least tied in the fourth quarter.

The Knicks have to figure out the reasons behind the regression, especially on defense. Lance Thomas’ knee surgery last week is one reason. Another theory is Fizdale’s experimentation with starting lineups. There have been two major shakeups through 15 games and three different starting point guards. There is more tinkering on the way, according to Fizdale. Of the Knicks’ four victories, none have come against an above-.500 club. Two have been against Atlanta and one apiece against the Nets and Mavericks.

The Knicks have played three of their past four games on the road and the schedule is not letting up. Starting with Friday’s game in New Orleans, six of the next eight contests are away from the Garden. The other reason the Knicks’ losses could mount is the three rookies in their rotation — Kevin Knox, Mitchell Robinson and Allonzo Trier — are strong candidates to hit the first-year wall. The bit of a silver lining is Kristaps Porzingis making hints all over the place his rehab is nearly complete.

2. Demoted point guard Frank Ntilikina will never use injuries as an excuse, but he admitted he has shoulder issues. His right shoulder was taped in Oklahoma City. In the locker room after the game, the Frenchman was getting ice treatment to the left shoulder. Ntilikina confirmed he’s got two strained shoulders. That could be why Fizdale declined to use Ntilikina’s length to attempt to stop Paul George, who torched Tim Hardaway Jr. for 35 points.

 
3. Fizdale’s lineup change to trigger more ball movement with Emmanuel Mudiay at the point worked early, but ultimately the Knicks’ offense devolved. The Knicks are last in the league in assists — a stat that gnaws at the coach. The Knicks registered 17 assists to the Thunder’s 32. Hardaway, like Carmelo Anthony before him, is a major culprit. The Knicks were 7-of-26 from 3-point range, bringing their percentage down to 31.6, ranking them 28th out of 30.

Modal TriggerKevin Knox
Kevin KnoxNBAE/Getty Images
4. In his first career NBA start, rookie Kevin Knox scored 15 points but was just 5-of-16 from the field, including missing badly on a couple of wild runners. He had one assist and three turnovers in 29:20. Knox’s shooting percentage is 32.5 percent, though his 3-point percentage is a tad higher at 34.3 percent. He shot 35 percent in summer league, despite showing flashes of brilliance. He shot 32 percent in five preseason games, losing his starting job.

“They say he’s a very good shooter but I haven’t seen it yet,” one NBA scout said.

5. Trier, the undrafted rookie, registered 11 points, but also had four turnovers with zero assists. Besides the failed drug tests, one reason Trier went undrafted was concerns about fitting in as far as passing the ball.

It was a bad job by the public-address announcer who repeatedly mispronounced his last name despite Trier having played high-school ball in the Oklahoma City area for three years. The correct pronunciation is “Tree-er.” One of his former high-school teammates took in the game at Chesapeake Arena and laughed at Trier’s gunner style.

“He was even cocky as an eighth-grader — didn’t pass the ball,’’ he reminisced. “I knew what kind of player he’d be when he announced to the team his favorite player was Carmelo Anthony.’’

Thunder coach Billy Donovan said the club worked out Trier but indicated he wasn’t a consideration at 45 when the Thunder did well in taking native New Yorker Hamidou Diallo, who scored a career-high 11 points vs. the Knicks.
Title: Re: If Fitzdel doesnt start Trier soon
Post by: Kam on November 15, 2018, 01:31:38 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 15, 2018, 12:14:34 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 15, 2018, 11:28:37 AM
He should be fined, fired, and fillet.

Stretched, perhaps?

Coach keeps talking about how he has Burke, Frank, and Mudiay at that spot.  The best player for the spot is someone he never talks about.

Trier plays D and scores.  He doesn't facilitate as well as the others.  So what.  We suck at that anyway.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 15, 2018, 01:49:29 PM
Good piece by Berman, taking 2 of the rooks to task, excepting that OKC did not draft Diallo
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on November 15, 2018, 02:08:45 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 15, 2018, 11:16:36 AM
Surrendering a #1 to dump Noah ... (to save 6 mil two summers in a row)  would be ALMOST as bad as Surrendering a #1 to acquire Andrea Barniarney.

You only surrender the #1 after Durant or whomever agrees to sign. Otherwise, you just buy him out.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on November 15, 2018, 02:14:29 PM
And, no, Chip, you don't get it.

The team that acquires Noah will waive him. Presumably nobody is trading for him because they think he's an NBA player today. They just don't have any better way to spend their money because the likes of Durant aren't even meeting with them. Like Atlanta with Carmelo this summer, or what Sacramento aims to be this February.

The Knicks should aim higher because they're going to get meetings next summer.

And it would have made more sense to fire the Noah bullet next summer.

What did we gain by doing it now? Primarily roster spots for Luke Kornet and Ron Baker. Definitely not worth the cap space we will have surrendered if we don't sign anyone this summer, the very cap space which you rightly say can get us draft picks if we strike out. I want that cap space. I just don't see the need to cannibalise future cap space for 2019 summer if we aren't sure we are going to get a free agent.

Again - send Noah home, waive Kornet and Baker (we'll live...neither is going to be irreplaceable), see if any big guns are going to sign this summer, if so stretch or trade Noah as necessary to create the cap space, otherwise keep proceeding with the rebuild without sacrificing our cap flexibility in 2020.

So, no, you don't get it because you keep talking about teams not signing Noah like that has any relevance. Using coloured fonts doesn't make your argument more sound.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 15, 2018, 02:23:18 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on November 15, 2018, 02:14:29 PM
And, no, Chip, you don't get it.

The team that acquires Noah will waive him. Presumably nobody is trading for him because they think he's an NBA player today. They just don't have any better way to spend their money because the likes of Durant aren't even meeting with them. Like Atlanta with Carmelo this summer, or what Sacramento aims to be this February.

The Knicks should aim higher because they're going to get meetings next summer.

And it would have made more sense to fire the Noah bullet next summer.

What did we gain by doing it now? Primarily roster spots for Luke Kornet and Ron Baker. Definitely not worth the cap space we will have surrendered if we don't sign anyone this summer, the very cap space which you rightly say can get us draft picks if we strike out. I want that cap space. I just don't see the need to cannibalise future cap space for 2019 summer if we aren't sure we are going to get a free agent.

Again - send Noah home, waive Kornet and Baker (we'll live...neither is going to be irreplaceable), see if any big guns are going to sign this summer, if so stretch or trade Noah as necessary to create the cap space, otherwise keep proceeding with the rebuild without sacrificing our cap flexibility in 2020.

So, no, you don't get it because you keep talking about teams not signing Noah like that has any relevance. Using coloured fonts doesn't make your argument more sound.

No

SALE
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on November 15, 2018, 10:41:57 PM
Anthony lasted 10 games.

as Tmac said.

"retire"
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 16, 2018, 03:38:21 AM
There are plenty of teams with weak benches and aspirations.
Pels, Wiz, Pistons come to mind.

Plenty of guys have been useful bench scorers while not defending anyone.  Craw and Lou W come to mind.

Now Melo would have to change his mindset a little.  Be willing to come off the bench and be a 2nd unit scorer.  Be a mentor.  Show some vet leadership.  Think about how an old Pierce righted WAS that one year.  Vince Carter is still out there at 40+.  Not that Melo has ever displayed leadership, but he has been through a lot and can tell Olympic stories.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on November 16, 2018, 03:44:19 AM
If you were Melo's closest advisor, which available team would you counsel him to choose?

I'd say Philly.

And to avoid Washington at all costs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 16, 2018, 04:09:04 AM
PHI should want to add more of a deadeye 3-point shooter.
Though like last year they can try to add two shooters. 
Melo can take on the ilyasova role (he also boarded well for them as a backup).

Melo has to be careful, because if this next audition bombs, no teams might want to be bothered with him anymore.  At the vet min, Melo gets something like $2.1M and the league picks up around $1.5M of that.  So the money gamble is small.  But who needs the headache.

PHI he could be the most inconspicuous.  But would be asked to only spot up for 3's.  Wouldn't get to post or midrange much as they already have enough/too much of that.  So hoopswise I don't see it as a good fit.

NOP might be the best fit, in terms of giving Melo a good sized bench role, and needing some vet vibes floating around.
DET somewhat similar.

WAS would put him back near his hometown and they could use a bench vet and some change.  Give him the chance for the most impact while the blame would go to others if the team continues to rot.
Title: Chop Chop
Post by: bodiddley on November 16, 2018, 06:14:46 AM
The one 19th-century typeface with an unmistakably Asian name and a suggestive appearance is Chinese (Cleveland Type Foundry, 1883). Known since the mid-’50s as Mandarin, the face is characterized by curved and pointed wedge strokes that superficially resemble two of the eight basic strokes of Chinese calligraphy: the downward left stroke and the upward right stroke. Unfortunately, the strokes, forced onto the armature of Roman letters, are assembled in a manner that ignores a calligraphic emphasis on structural balance and harmony.

Mandarin is the granddaddy of what have come to be known as “chop suey” types. It’s a fitting name—just as chop suey is an American invention, so, too, are the letters of Mandarin and its many offspring. Neither the food nor the fonts bear any real relation to true Chinese cuisine or calligraphy. But this has not prevented the proliferation of chop suey lettering and its close identification with Chinese culture outside of China. 

By the end of World War I, chop suey lettering had become synonymous with San Francisco’s Chinatown. This could have been a way to distinguish the rebuilding of Chinatown as a tourist destination following the 1906 earthquake. The new Chinatown was flamboyantly, theatrically “Chinese,” complete with pagoda roofs and other exaggerated and stylized details.

By the ’30s, chop suey letters were being used to promote Chinese restaurants across the country. Chop suey, the dish, invented 40 years earlier, had become a culinary craze. Restaurants responded by including the dish in their name and emphasizing it in their signs and advertising.  Ironically, it was Chinese-American restaurateurs who
were choosing the chop suey lettering (and serving the dish), conferring a bit of authenticity on two American inventions.

Ethnic type — not just chop suey but all of the varieties — survives for the simple reason that stereotypes, though crude, serve a commercial purpose. They are shortcuts, visual mnemonic devices. There is no room for cultural nuance or academic accuracy on a shop’s facade. Restaurant owners want passersby (often in cars rather than on foot) to know immediately that they serve Chinese (or Greek, or Jewish) food, and a lettering style that achieves this is welcome.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 16, 2018, 08:28:11 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on November 16, 2018, 03:44:19 AM
If you were Melo's closest advisor, which available team would you counsel him to choose?

I'd say Philly.

And to avoid Washington at all costs.

Not necessarily a team in the thick of the fight.....

Charlotte/Orlando/Miami would be perfect.  Look to get your game back with less pressure.  Vets around to hang with.

Amongst playoff teams, POPOVICH could probably get the most from Melo and would treat him fairly.  And last I checked, SA could use a boost.

If he got his shot back, even in 18-22 miniutes per night - that would be a nice story and good way to finish up - IN the playoffs and with a role.  HOU was just too much for him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 16, 2018, 09:40:02 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on November 16, 2018, 03:44:19 AM
If you were Melo's closest advisor, which available team would you counsel him to choose?

I'd say Philly.

And to avoid Washington at all costs.

The LA Fakerz
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on November 16, 2018, 10:32:54 AM
Philly has playing time open at the 4. I think the mid-range issue you brought up, BoD, matters but that's going to be an issue most places. Philly is also face-saving - they're contenders for a deep playoff run, which Melo absolutely will be considering.

Charlotte is a good suggestion by Kiid. But they're a borderline playoff team.

I can't see Orlando being considered. Miami is risky - they're deep and in dire need of a 2 for 1 trade to clear up playing time, and adding Melo would exacerbate that problem (already, they have Whiteside, Bam, Olynyk, and James Johnson at the two power spots plus you have to have some small lineups with Winslow at the 4). I could see Melo going to Miami and then ending up with the same problem he had in Houston: coach says we're playing better when we play you less, so prepare for some DNP-CDs. That said, Miami could use Melo's scoring off the bench.

I think the Lakers would be silly to give Kuzma's minutes and role to Melo. But it might happen. Is it clear who is the better player between the two right now?

New Orleans could definitely use Melo, their bench needs boosting specifically in terms of scoring. But they've got a very functional three man big rotation going so bringing in Melo means Gentry is willing to play Miro and/or Melo at the 3. Might work against bench units. But Melo is probably never closing games when that team is healthy.

Detroit would have a more clear role for him. Less pressure, likely playoff team. Not much glam, but a solid choice.

San Antonio is interesting, but can you see the Spurs adding yet another mid-range scorer to go with Gay/Demar/LMA? I think Melo might get squeezed there. But I agree with Kiid that Pop could get a lot out of Melo.

Still Washington is the worst place for him. That team could end up viewed as one of the era's most crisis-ridden, Melo should want no part of that. Maybe he goes and the team stabilises, but I just don't trust it.

Maybe I'd re-rank it as follows, counting only the teams mentioned:

1. NOLA
2. Philly
3. Detroit
4. Charlotte
5. San Antonio
6. Miami
7. Washington
8. Orlando
Title: Melo
Post by: chipstern on November 16, 2018, 10:40:59 AM
Philly
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 16, 2018, 11:30:07 AM
Melo wouldn't supplant Kuzma.  He'd go there because of LeBron and La La.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 16, 2018, 11:59:36 AM
Lakers already being investigated for the Chandler addition - league eyes would be on them with HOU dropping him and LA again getting something for nothing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on November 16, 2018, 01:48:31 PM
Starting Mudiay-IsoZo-THJr-Knox-Big Mitch isn't going to lead to a lot of coherence (although it will be quick).

But it has the advantage of putting Ntilikina and Vonleh next to Kanter, which makes sense defensively.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on November 16, 2018, 03:52:58 PM
knicks future rest in KD's hands.

one would have to give a big thank you to Draymond if that happens.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on November 16, 2018, 03:55:31 PM
fizzle is all in to tanking.

starting all 3 rookies means losing.

i say.

you go Fizzle.
Title: Ommmmmmmmm
Post by: chipstern on November 16, 2018, 05:02:49 PM
Zion & Kevin?

Bring the pain, Fizz.

Ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on November 16, 2018, 10:10:18 PM
KI and KL put on a great Friday night show in TD Gaaahden

great game

Gordo might have pkayed his best all-around game
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 16, 2018, 10:30:25 PM
 Fizzy baby.....

Play in for that high pick...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 16, 2018, 10:38:51 PM
I tuned in with Knix up 11 in Nawlins with just under 7 minutes to play.

Then a lot of Knick mistakes.
Culprits: Tim, Trier and Knox.
With some rebounding failures.
Those 1 of 2 FT trips didn't help as well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 16, 2018, 10:43:48 PM
Mud & Burke 49 mins, 43 Pts, 1 Assist.
I only saw the ending, but that's an odd statline for your PG tandem.
Title: Takeaways
Post by: chipstern on November 16, 2018, 10:47:07 PM
* Anthony Davis is a BEAST. 

* Mudiay and Burke both playing with a lot of confidence.  Creating mostly for themselves, but I'll take it [18-25 between them]. 

* Knox shot the ball well...got undone by fouls. 

* Some late faux pas, but Timmy played his ass off, an all-around game.  A LEADER'S GAME.  30 points, 8-of-10 from the stripe, 8 rebounds, 2 assists, 2 steals. 

* A world of promise, and many good signs, but seriously, Mitchell Robinson has got a long ways to go. 

* Trier is being challenged and game-planned.  Needs to step up to the next level.  Still, five assists. 

* Good offensive coherence and defensive focus, before things unraveled. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on November 16, 2018, 10:59:15 PM
Muds best game. I feel good about an actual rebuild season. Parts are progressing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 16, 2018, 11:06:12 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on November 16, 2018, 10:10:18 PM
KI and KL put on a great Friday night show in TD Gaaahden

great game

Gordo might have pkayed his best all-around game

Who?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on November 16, 2018, 11:19:58 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on November 16, 2018, 11:06:12 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on November 16, 2018, 10:10:18 PM
KI and KL put on a great Friday night show in TD Gaaahden

great game

Gordo might have pkayed his best all-around game

Who?

He's on first.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on November 16, 2018, 11:25:50 PM
Hayward played a real solid 2-way game 15-5-5 with 4 steals.

And he did not seem tentative, there was a fluidity to his game, which was the biggest positive.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 17, 2018, 12:53:51 AM
Heh

All about Kyrie...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 17, 2018, 01:08:48 AM
Meanwhile Donovan Mitchell has about the worst 31 pt game I have seen in a while.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on November 17, 2018, 02:08:44 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 16, 2018, 10:38:51 PM
I tuned in with Knix up 11 in Nawlins with just under 7 minutes to play.


Shame, as it was a lot of fun for the first 3.5 quarters.

Mudiay genuinely improving.

Too much Davis.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 17, 2018, 05:44:33 AM
I'll try to catch a replay.
Though the last promised 11:AM (for you) replay of the OKC never materialized.  Instead MSG was showing people playing cards while listing Knix.

Pels were just missing Melo, that's all.

And speaking of, WASh went 3-18 on 3's and lost at home to BKY.  The scrappy no-name Nets are 7-9.  Looks like a foulathon with the teams combining for 72 FT's.  Dwight went off for 25 & 17 in 27 mins before fouling out.  Wiz dropped to 5-10 and might start thinking about Melo.

Nets replay start an hour earlier than NYK's, and YES is reliable -- if I'm back in time.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 17, 2018, 06:07:11 AM
Knix next 10 games are all tough.
At least 3 national TeeVee showings.

Mon  Nov 19  @Orlando
Wed  Nov 21  vs Portland    NBATV
Thu   Nov 22  @Boston   
Sat   Nov 24  vs New Orleans
Mon  Nov 26  @Memphis 
Wed  Nov 28  @Detroit
Thu  Nov 29  @Philadelphia   NBATV
Sun  Dec 2   vs Milwaukee
Tue  Dec 4   vs Washington
Fri   Dec 7   @Boston      TNT

MEMf and ORL playing surprisingly well.
the 4 Home games are POR, NOP, MIL and the underperforming WAS who still have much more talent then NYK.
2-8?
Only 3 teams with fewer wins than NYK, but those teams are really bad.  We're scrappy bad.

The upcoming @ORl game looms large, as Knix already on a 4 game skid and the 4 games after that very challenging.  Lose to Magic and could be a 9 game slide and trying to beat DET on the road.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on November 17, 2018, 10:13:48 AM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on November 17, 2018, 12:53:51 AM
Heh

All about Kyrie...

he did a lot of heavy lifting last night.

he played a spectacular game
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 17, 2018, 11:25:43 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on November 17, 2018, 02:08:44 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 16, 2018, 10:38:51 PM
I tuned in with Knix up 11 in Nawlins with just under 7 minutes to play.


Shame, as it was a lot of fun for the first 3.5 quarters.

Mudiay genuinely improving.

Too much Davis.

Was good to see Mudiay and Burke so dynamic offensively. 

Timmy playing like a bello cow. 

And for the Knicks to come out so focused on defense. 

Our bigs couldn't hang, and that Davis fellow is a Top 5/TOP TIER NBA player, and Holiday's veteran leadership brought home the bacon at crunch time. 

PS: Knox seemed more comfortable at the 4-spot than the three.  Fouls did him in.  That and inexperience. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 17, 2018, 11:43:36 AM
Missed the 1st half again.
Seems I tuned in the first time with 10:40 left and Knix up 10.

So again I missed Mud, but caught good Burke in the 3Q.
Didn't like his loosey stuff like a behind the back pass, behind the back dribble (stolen), and some other casualness.  But I assume those folks who had him out of the picture, might want to reconsider.  He's a solid scoring backup PG dynamo.

Holiday really amped up his game in the 4Q, especially on D.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on November 17, 2018, 12:26:08 PM
When Kanter gets bought out later this year, you guys think he'll look for a starting role with a bad team or a bench role on a playoff team that could use bench scoring?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 17, 2018, 12:56:58 PM
Is that before or after Mitch hits the rook wall?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on November 17, 2018, 01:38:14 PM
It's the Knicks, so the buyout is probably concluded 48 hours before Mitch rolls his ankle and is out for a couple of months (and well after the Knicks decide to keep Baker and not Kornet, when converting Trier).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 18, 2018, 07:19:21 AM
BakerBoy is out of the rotation even with Courtly in street clothes.
He's our 8th G; 5th SG.
So when we need a roster spot he should be axed and Chop Suey kept on the menu.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on November 18, 2018, 09:58:37 AM
Yes (and well worded). But I'm just kind of expecting the worst.

Also, Baker is pretty easy to root for. You want him to succeed.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on November 18, 2018, 04:23:30 PM
fizzy is saying the right things.

"“I try to balance it,” Fizdale said. “That’s the tough decisions you got to make. But we know ultimately this season’s biggest, most important thing we do is development. You can’t put anything above that. I do try to respect all of the guys and the situation that they’re in, but our No. 1 priority, I can’t put anything above it, is our player development.”

so he plays guys who may be in  our future and sits guys who are not.

sorry EK.

Perry needs to find out who wants in next year.  In a  perfect storm NY gets KD , a top 5 pick and gets a legit point guard.

the only guy not expendable to me is not playing and sitting in a suit.

Title: Good L
Post by: Kam on November 18, 2018, 08:36:16 PM
We came, we competed, we lost.

The real Question in all these losses.... would we have won if KP were healthy?

Does his defense make the difference?  I hope so.  Because offensively our gunners shot well enough.

Most of the players on tonight's roster that KP would take shots from... actually shot well tonight.
Title: Still don't trust Mudiay
Post by: Kam on November 18, 2018, 08:42:06 PM
Fiz should starts 3 guards who are all a threat to score

Burke
Trier
Tim

Knox or Vonleh at the PF
Mitch or Enes at C


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on November 18, 2018, 09:28:08 PM
This is a wonderful rebuild season. Develop youngsters, lose entertainingly, and be competitive next year. More of a matter of developing MR than dropping Enes?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on November 18, 2018, 09:30:48 PM
Quote from: luee on November 18, 2018, 09:28:08 PM
This is a wonderful rebuild season. Develop youngsters, lose entertainingly, and be competitive next year. More of a matter of developing MR than dropping Enes?

what the hell are you watching?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 18, 2018, 10:17:08 PM
This starting lineup is an abomination, things getting kind of unwatchable. On the positive side, Zion train is coming our way....



*** marc gasol is really happy this year
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on November 19, 2018, 12:32:26 AM
this is Hawthorne Wingo era redux.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on November 19, 2018, 06:25:59 AM
Harthorne Wingo won a championship.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on November 19, 2018, 10:06:09 AM
This is a rebuild year. Better than winning 29 with expensive OTH players. Knix are the youngest team in the league and there is budding talent.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 19, 2018, 10:43:02 AM
Quote from: Nagel on November 19, 2018, 12:32:26 AM
this is Hawthorne Wingo era redux.

That would make you Ziggy Starburst

(http://78.media.tumblr.com/ddbfa1c5e8ff57ac65ac1b0e3206153c/tumblr_nocx1aKFeD1tjlwcho3_500.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 19, 2018, 10:57:43 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 13, 2018, 02:22:45 AM
We may not be able to win without his D, but when he’s giving goose eggs his D doesn’t help us win.

Last night was a rather extreme rebuttal of the above.

Goose eggs on O. (not surprising as he was parked in the corner most of the time)

22 minutes tonight with Frank on the court Knicks had a 91.5 DRtg.

26 minutes with Frank of the court the Knicks had a 166 DRtg.

If you watched, you know.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 19, 2018, 11:00:44 AM
Speaking of watching, I may be doing a bit less. The season is already getting a little tiresome.

Adam Silver may have put the final feather on a decade-long progression toward defense-free ball. Those who still excel at the art despite the handicaps really are magicians.

Call me what you will, but I find nothing exciting about watching crap teams put up 130 points. It's like watching rec league ball and I certainly wouldn't pay for that.

Just saying.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 19, 2018, 11:34:04 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on November 19, 2018, 10:57:43 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 13, 2018, 02:22:45 AM
We may not be able to win without his D, but when he’s giving goose eggs his D doesn’t help us win.

Last night was a rather extreme rebuttal of the above.

Goose eggs on O. (not surprising as he was parked in the corner most of the time)

22 minutes tonight with Frank on the court Knicks had a 91.5 DRtg.

26 minutes with Frank of the court the Knicks had a 166 DRtg.

If you watched, you know.

Thank you. 
Title: Something For Everyone...
Post by: chipstern on November 19, 2018, 11:58:47 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on November 19, 2018, 11:00:44 AM
Speaking of watching, I may be doing a bit less. The season is already getting a little tiresome.

Adam Silver may have put the final feather on a decade-long progression toward defense-free ball. Those who still excel at the art despite the handicaps really are magicians.

Call me what you will, but I find nothing exciting about watching crap teams put up 130 points. It's like watching rec league ball and I certainly wouldn't pay for that.

Just saying.

I feel you.

But I'm experiencing it the other way. 

There are bursts of individual excellence, sort of coming and going as Fizz keeps tweaking his lineups. 

Hardaway and Burke emerging as genuine offensive threats, likewise Mudiay. 

[Interesting stat for Ziggy...Hardaway #2 in he league behind Lowry for taking charges]. 

Our Three Rooks have been up and down.  Trier in particular coming down to Earth, offensively, though his assists are up.  Knox looks befuddled and Robinson basically getting his G-League time against NBA competition the likes of Anthony and Nikola, which is...uh, a source for embarrassment. 

Likewise, on offense, those who are ready to buy out Kanter, pointing to Mitchell's innate defensive potential, well, at the moment, when Mitchell is out there, it's like we're playing 4 on 5 offensively, as he has NO GAME, outside of rolling to the hoop (been missing most of his recent attempts there) and put-backs.  I'm not breaking on the kid, but, this is what throwing a tadpole into the deep end of the pool with full grown gators looks like. 

But of course, let's get rid of Kanter because he's a defensive liability.  Uh huh.  Meanwhile who amongst our front court players is even coming close to his points or boards. 

There was a stretch when Robinson was basically playing PF next to Kanter's Center, and that showed some promise, as did Vonleh playing alongside him. 

Right now, Knox and Hezonja are out of sorts (or in my main man Stupor Mario's case, out of the rotation). 

I get Fizz's good intentions in trying to start all three of his rooks for future development. 

However, he is doing a player such as Knox no favors in tossing him out there to get undressed and over-matched defensively against much more experienced players. 

For me, accepting the reality of our loses, both based on extreme youth, soft tanking and lack of cohesion (on both the players AND the coaches part), there are still enough moments, as was it Luee suggested, of positive play and competitive tenacity (such as how we came back in the second quarter yesterday, instead of simply folding up like a cheap beach chair as recent "vet" Knicks teams, well, VETERAN'S HOSPITAL Knicks teams, would). 

As such, confounding as the inconsistency might be, it fulfills the stated mission of Kamster and Don Carlos to compete hard, show growth and position ourselves for the possibility of Zion, however remote. 

Meanwhile, gratifying to see Timmy's growth as an all around NBA scoring guard, taking charges, getting to the FT line, serving up assists...Trey and Mudiay finding their offensive games.

And of course, nothing quite like Ziggy Starbust getting to shout we suck, We Suck, WE SUCK at the top of his lungs...or as Zero Mostel sang in A FUNNY THING HAPPENED TO ME ON THE WAY TO THE FORUM...

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMDk2ODZkMzItODEwNy00OTlmLTgzNzItOGRhZDQ0ZWU0MDk4XkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyNzU1NzE3NTg@._V1_CR0,45,480,270_AL_UX477_CR0,0,477,268_AL_.jpg)

"Something for everyone, a comedy TONIGHT."

(https://media-af-photos.ancientfaces.com/650/1315056/1315056-medium.jpg?6)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 19, 2018, 01:28:14 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 19, 2018, 11:34:04 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on November 19, 2018, 10:57:43 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 13, 2018, 02:22:45 AM
We may not be able to win without his D, but when he’s giving goose eggs his D doesn’t help us win.

Last night was a rather extreme rebuttal of the above.

Goose eggs on O. (not surprising as he was parked in the corner most of the time)

22 minutes tonight with Frank on the court Knicks had a 91.5 DRtg.

26 minutes with Frank of the court the Knicks had a 166 DRtg.

If you watched, you know.

Thank you.

Let’s say after his steal he had hit the layup or got the foul, or even better the and 1 instead of being swatted by Ross. We’d have been down 5 or 6 with momentum and five minutes on the clock. What is the best path to help Frank gain the timing, craft, and confidence to regularly hit that shot? I’m sure he will get it and be the most valuable guard on his team when he does.

I can see where having Frank on a noticeably shorter hook than our other players may help reinforce points of emphasis in his development while also giving Mudiay and Burke reps and opportunity to showcase themselves. Somebody is going soon, and it might be nice if that somebody got us something in return rather than hit the waiver wire.

I just think Frank needs the opportunity to have games where he misses 4, hits 2, misses 3, then hits 5, feeling his way into games through mistakes.

I like starting Mitch. Should he survive the season, which seems likelier given his limitations leading to quick hooks and low miles, he’ll have a real sense of where he needs to be heading into the offseason. Kanter is a good guy both for Mitch to practice against and to carry the load this season.

There is a ton of development to do and a lot of season left to do it in. It wasn’t that long ago that Orlando looked like us with basically the same personnel they play now, but through development they look like a decent team this year. That path exists and the hope that we are on a similar path takes a lot of the sting out of the game by game results.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 19, 2018, 02:02:15 PM
Mudy 5-8 in 22 minutes

Yep - scorer.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 19, 2018, 02:05:19 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 19, 2018, 01:28:14 PM
What is the best path to help Frank gain the timing, craft, and confidence to regularly hit that shot? I’m sure he will get it and be the most valuable guard on his team when he does.

I can see where having Frank on a noticeably shorter hook than our other players may help reinforce points of emphasis in his development while also giving Mudiay and Burke reps and opportunity to showcase themselves. Somebody is going soon, and it might be nice if that somebody got us something in return rather than hit the waiver wire.

I just think Frank needs the opportunity to have games where he misses 4, hits 2, misses 3, then hits 5, feeling his way into games through mistakes.


Well, that's the question isn't it. Not sure of the answer, just know it has to happen. Against the Pelicans, the first game after the "yank," he came back and did this kind of stuff in a handful of minutes.

https://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=1&GameID=0021800222&GameEventID=159&Season=2018-19&title=Ntilikina%2017%27%20Pullup%20Jump%20Shot%20(2%20PTS)&sct=plot (https://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=1&GameID=0021800222&GameEventID=159&Season=2018-19&title=Ntilikina%2017%27%20Pullup%20Jump%20Shot%20(2%20PTS)&sct=plot)

https://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=1&GameID=0021800222&GameEventID=167&Season=2018-19&title=Kanter%201%27%20Reverse%20Layup%20(4%20PTS)%20(Ntilikina%201%20AST)&sct=plot (https://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=1&GameID=0021800222&GameEventID=167&Season=2018-19&title=Kanter%201%27%20Reverse%20Layup%20(4%20PTS)%20(Ntilikina%201%20AST)&sct=plot)

https://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=1&GameID=0021800222&GameEventID=200&Season=2018-19&title=Ntilikina%2015%27%20Pullup%20Jump%20Shot%20(4%20PTS)%20(Burke%201%20AST)&sct=plot (https://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=1&GameID=0021800222&GameEventID=200&Season=2018-19&title=Ntilikina%2015%27%20Pullup%20Jump%20Shot%20(4%20PTS)%20(Burke%201%20AST)&sct=plot)

https://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=1&GameID=0021800222&GameEventID=192&Season=2018-19&title=Burke%2025%27%203PT%20Jump%20Shot%20(7%20PTS)%20(Ntilikina%202%20AST)&sct=plot (https://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=1&GameID=0021800222&GameEventID=192&Season=2018-19&title=Burke%2025%27%203PT%20Jump%20Shot%20(7%20PTS)%20(Ntilikina%202%20AST)&sct=plot)

So maybe he does need more yanks. Who knows. What I know is that he's the only plausible answer at permanent PG on our roster and remains exceedingly plausible in my mind. Guys who get hot every other game and leak like a sieve every game are a dime a dozen.

Playing a guy who can D like he does rarely hurts us. What hurts us is to extol a new defensive culture with your lips and hand out playing time like candy to folks who can't guard a sponge. Maybe that's part of the reason Gasol detested him with a capital D.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 19, 2018, 02:53:36 PM
Perry goofed big letting Troy Williams go for Mario. We lost the better player on the better contract.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 19, 2018, 03:11:51 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on November 19, 2018, 02:02:15 PM
Mudy 5-8 in 22 minutes
Yep - scorer.

I thought he was a PG?
____________________________________________

Was looking for trades with WASh where we could get Beal or Wall or even OP(P).

Really the only thing mildly plausible is to flip Hardaway for Beal with some additional players on ending contracts from NY.  Say Mud & Baker (both ending deals).  But that does nothing to help the Wiz D problems.  And only saves them $8M next year and nothing this year.
And is Beal going to help NY when we have no PG and no passing?
Seems sideways and awkward for both teams.  If Knix really wanted Beal, they could offer to expand the deal to include a Kanter for Mahinmi flip.  Putting NYK on the hook for another year of a big C at $15M, freeing up Wiz next year of $15M (+ $8M form the Mud/Bake expirings).  Replacing Beal with Hardaway to save $23M?
Is it worth it for either team?
Both would still require other moves to make such a deal pay off.

Presumably for Wall, they'd want a PG back, since they don't even have a genuine backup PG for him.  And Knix don't have much to offer WASH except possible backups (to Wall).  Trading Wall and Mahinmi for ending deals, picks and a yute (Franc and/or Knox) would gut the Washerwomen and make Porter's contract a complete albatross.
And would you really want Wall, who hasn't won anything and will be paid over $40M on his new deal?  That's make me super-nervous. 

I don't even know what you offer for Porter.  He's owed $27M this and two more years.  Courtly, Lance & Zonja (I'm assuming he can be packaged after Dec 15).   That's not too bad as Lance & Courtly make $19M next year.  [but isn't Lance only minimally guaranteed?].  Wiz could use the extra defense those two give them.  Knix would get a solid two-way player, a 3&D wing, at the cost of $28M on the cap 2 years form now (and an extra hit of some proportion next year).

If Lance is only $1M guaranteed next year, we'd be giving WIZ a ton of cap relief.  While taking on a lot of money. 

Knix should probably be hoarding their cap space and looking for a starting caliber PG, instead of any of this nonsense . . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 19, 2018, 03:23:56 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 19, 2018, 02:53:36 PM
Perry goofed big letting Troy Williams go for Mario. We lost the better player on the better contract.

I liked Troy.  But basically he was replaced by Datsun and Trilateral Commission.  Compared to last year's sluggards, Troy brought bounce and energy.  But now we have more young legs.  Tory and Dot seem equivalent.  Troy's largely redundant on this squad.

Zonja is a mistake player, but has size and some skills.  A reasonable gamble/reclamation project who still might get it together.  He has a pretty good stroke and makes some nice cuts.  Not a defender and prone to do stupid things with the ball, but also makes some nice passes.  He needs to focus, lock in, and play more fundamental hoops, rather than flashy stuff.  He's playing for a contract and possibly his NBA career, which shouldn't be underestimated.  he should be watching clips of Hedo Turk-o-glue every night.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 19, 2018, 03:49:07 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 19, 2018, 03:23:56 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 19, 2018, 02:53:36 PM
Perry goofed big letting Troy Williams go for Mario. We lost the better player on the better contract.

I liked Troy.  But basically he was replaced by Datsun and Trilateral Commission.  Compared to last year's sluggards, Troy brought bounce and energy.  But now we have more young legs.  Tory and Dot seem equivalent.  Troy's largely redundant on this squad.

Zonja is a mistake player, but has size and some skills.  A reasonable gamble/reclamation project who still might get it together.  He has a pretty good stroke and makes some nice cuts.  Not a defender and prone to do stupid things with the ball, but also makes some nice passes.  He needs to focus, lock in, and play more fundamental hoops, rather than flashy stuff.  He's playing for a contract and possibly his NBA career, which shouldn't be underestimated.  he should be watching clips of Hedo Turk-o-glue every night.

Mario is still finding himself, and I know that is kind of thin...

And I liked Troy.

But characterizing letting Troy go to give Hezonja an audition as a major blunder on Perry's part is just absurd. 

Hezonja has comparable energy and hops, is bigger, more versatile and with a greater skill set. 

We have seen evidence of a really good motor and ballhandling, a willing and crafty passer. 

Trey got his wake up call on the bench.  Mario needs to be less rash in some of his decision making; he sometimes forces the issue in trying to make plays at the rack, though some impressive finishes.  Not enough though.  And his jumper has been a tease.  He has genuine, nuclear three point range. 

Hey, I liked Troy.  He was a grinder and had good energy. 

Still, gimme a break. 

Who would you rather roll the dice on?  Detlef Schrempf of Anthony Bonner.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 19, 2018, 04:42:13 PM
Mario may be bigger, but Troy defends bigger and smaller players better not to mention ones his own size. Mario may have the rep, but Troy has actually hit threes and is shooting a nice percentage this year. He’s a low mistake player who knows his lane and brings relentless energy to his work. It’s never bad to give your coach more actuall defenders to work with. Both guys are up after this season so it’s less about future and more about who has their shit together now. Dotson and Knox provide similar play, but with what we’re doing Troy could slot between them or shift among them in tandem. Mario just accentuates the negative without consistently adding positives. Not the end of the world. Next year, unless things change, I’d still prefer we pursue Troy over Mario though we’ll be competing with more bidders. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 19, 2018, 04:55:59 PM
"I thought he was a PG."

Hmmm...?

I don't tell u what to think.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on November 19, 2018, 06:40:03 PM
TW was waived. He played for seven teams during his short career and did a 6.3-2.7. Nothing there. Hezonja is better than that with more promise? You can always pick up TW when he gets waived again this year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 19, 2018, 08:57:26 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 19, 2018, 01:28:14 PM


I just think Frank needs the opportunity to have games where he misses 4, hits 2, misses 3, then hits 5, feeling his way into games through mistakes.


You think Fizdale isn't telling him to keep creating for himself?  He can't keep playing 20-26 minutes a game and attempting 1 shot.  Or 3 shots. 
If Frank ever takes as many as 4+2+3+5... 14 shots it is because he made his first four.  Frank shuts himself down after his first miss or three.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 19, 2018, 09:06:51 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on November 19, 2018, 02:05:19 PM

So maybe he does need more yanks. Who knows. What I know is that he's the only plausible answer at permanent PG on our roster and remains exceedingly plausible in my mind. Guys who get hot every other game and leak like a sieve ever


He is averaging less than one FT per game and only 7.2 shots a game.  Shooting 36 percent. 
Offensively he has not improved, which in this league = regressed.

And the frustrating thing is he is doing it to himself.  Fizdale can try to inspire confidence with playing time and starts (and he has) but he can't instill confidence and aggression in his game.  Frank is on the clock.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 19, 2018, 09:10:43 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on November 19, 2018, 02:05:19 PM

Playing a guy who can D like he does rarely hurts us. What hurts us is to extol a new defensive culture with your lips and hand out playing time like candy to folks who can't guard a sponge. Maybe that's part of the reason Gasol detested him with a capital D.

To be fair to Frank, we could get by with his no-scoring ass if we didn't have another one in Mitch playing at the same time. 
Again, why can't they throw fucking LOBS to each other.  Or at least Frank to Mitch.
As it is we are playing 3 on 5 on offense when they start together.


Throw some fucking lobs already.  Frank is supposedly a pick and roll PG so he must know how to throw a lob.
Run more PnRs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 19, 2018, 10:09:58 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 19, 2018, 02:53:36 PM
Perry goofed big letting Troy Williams go for Mario. We lost the better player on the better contract.

I mean... i don't know if Troy was that great but there had to be better ways to spend Mario's 6.5m bag.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on November 19, 2018, 10:25:03 PM
Phil Jackson on Drafting Frank Ntilikina

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gahF9d54GVI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gahF9d54GVI)

Huh!
Title: Phool J
Post by: carlos123 on November 19, 2018, 10:35:59 PM
Quote from: luee on November 19, 2018, 10:25:03 PM
Phil Jackson on Drafting Frank Ntilikina

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gahF9d54GVI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gahF9d54GVI)

Huh!

Speaking of Phool ...

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/av_aZMq4N7Pvcc7tFCHc490p-UiS0Acd1CJSuo4pEnvK4W1Bp-lk1VuCr2q94SCxiGk2vcveAGnschMhxQ=w856-h440-rw)

My friend Nagel was the first one to call him a dinosaur. Good for you Nagel!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on November 20, 2018, 12:53:52 AM
Carlos,,

check what a real knick fan thinks.

i guess  the same as me.  only he is much younger.

https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/ny-sports-knicks-rappaport-dolan-20181119-story.html (https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/ny-sports-knicks-rappaport-dolan-20181119-story.html)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 20, 2018, 09:34:01 AM
Quote from: luee on November 19, 2018, 10:25:03 PM
Phil Jackson on Drafting Frank Ntilikina

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gahF9d54GVI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gahF9d54GVI)

Huh!

Thanks for the link.

Phil says the staff argued about the pick.  Would love to know which members of management liked which other players in that draft.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 20, 2018, 10:31:18 AM
Clearly Dennis Smith Jr, who went with the next pick.
Knix were in need of a PG.  So I assume it was either Franc or Smith Jr, who is small, a weak defender, and has had knee issues.
Possibly Monk who is more of an SG, and is currently slumping badly.  An SG who can't shoot.

Phil has always preferred Big G's and D at the G positions (Clyde in his playing days; Fisher in LA; also Ron Harper).
Which is probably why we tabbed Franc.

Also Phil is partial to everybody moving the ball, and that not being just the PG's responsibility.  Think early 70's Knix; Jordan/Pip Bulls; Kobe Lakes.

So Phil might view the PG position differently than most.
It's become a scoring gig, with most Points able to hit the 3 and get to the rack, making kickouts, and reads as needed.

Knix needed a PG and Phil likes size and D = Franc.

From 10 to the end, the best players so far:
#13 Donovan Mitchell
#23 OG Anunoby
#19 John Collins
#14 Bam Adebayo
#27 Kyle Kuzma
#22 Jarrett Allen
#30 Josh Hart

A pretty strong 2nd round, with players who look like they could stick around as bench players for years.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on November 20, 2018, 10:48:11 AM
We were looking closely at Donovan Mitchell.

I like Frank, but I've never seen his value tied to him being a starting PG. I think he's more likely a starting SG next to a Kemba/Kyrie type at PG, or third guard.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 20, 2018, 11:18:11 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on November 20, 2018, 10:48:11 AM
We were looking closely at Donovan Mitchell.

I like Frank, but I've never seen his value tied to him being a starting PG. I think he's more likely a starting SG next to a Kemba/Kyrie type at PG, or third guard.

He looked more confident as a rookie when he knew his role as primary backup PG.  I don't think it serves him well to get moved around this much this early in his NBA career.  The Mudiay move was a hedge against Frank completely falling out.  But it backfired to make his role even cloudier.  Frank is not just a rookie/young player these first couple years - he is a foreign player, and one who never played AAU so he hasn't seen these guys for the last 6-7 years.  So i would keep things simple for him.  He has enough to adjust to as it is.  Let him play an entire season at one spot and don't mess with his confidence. Well... we just couldn't leave well enough alone last year with the TB pickup and the EB trade.   Where do you think Frank's  head went to when he saw two guys brought in to take his playing time in the span of a month, just three months into his rookie year in a new league.


Just leave Frank as the backup PG the rest of the year.  I don't care where that leaves Mudiay.  Start Burke.  Try to win games.  The losses will come on their own.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 20, 2018, 12:16:38 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 20, 2018, 10:31:18 AM
Clearly Dennis Smith Jr, who went with the next pick.
Knix were in need of a PG.  So I assume it was either Franc or Smith Jr, who is small, a weak defender, and has had knee issues.
Possibly Monk who is more of an SG, and is currently slumping badly.  An SG who can't shoot.

Phil has always preferred Big G's and D at the G positions (Clyde in his playing days; Fisher in LA; also Ron Harper).
Which is probably why we tabbed Franc.

Also Phil is partial to everybody moving the ball, and that not being just the PG's responsibility.  Think early 70's Knix; Jordan/Pip Bulls; Kobe Lakes.

So Phil might view the PG position differently than most.
It's become a scoring gig, with most Points able to hit the 3 and get to the rack, making kickouts, and reads as needed.

Knix needed a PG and Phil likes size and D = Franc.

From 10 to the end, the best players so far:
#13 Donovan Mitchell
#23 OG Anunoby
#19 John Collins
#14 Bam Adebayo
#27 Kyle Kuzma
#22 Jarrett Allen
#30 Josh Hart

A pretty strong 2nd round, with players who look like they could stick around as bench players for years.

If you listen to the interview Phil didn't take Frank because he sought a point guard.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 20, 2018, 12:20:48 PM
Was just curious. Maybe an exec liked Kuzma.  Or either Collins. 
Or Giles.   Or Bam.  Or Allen.  Or......MaMo.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 20, 2018, 12:28:17 PM
Watching rerun of Bagley and Kings

No. I don't believe Sactown will take a redraft.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on November 20, 2018, 12:41:26 PM
On the advice of his lawyer 76er's Fultz won't practice or play until his shoulder is seen by a specialist next week.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 20, 2018, 12:51:48 PM
Good win, Kings.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 20, 2018, 01:00:15 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on November 20, 2018, 12:41:26 PM
On the advice of his lawyer 76er's Fultz won't practice or play until his shoulder is seen by a specialist next week.

Isn't that the job of an Agent?  Maybe the lawyer is the agent??  Or perhaps the agent doesn't want to piss of the 76'ers under his own name.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 20, 2018, 01:04:56 PM
I will say i have had a shoulder injury.  It's not fun.  Did Fultz ever have surgery?  Without surgery your strength will never return to what it was.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on November 20, 2018, 01:24:28 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 20, 2018, 01:00:15 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on November 20, 2018, 12:41:26 PM
On the advice of his lawyer 76er's Fultz won't practice or play until his shoulder is seen by a specialist next week.

Isn't that the job of an Agent?  Maybe the lawyer is the agent??  Or perhaps the agent doesn't want to piss of the 76'ers under his own name.

You would think given all the attention/drama re Fultz the 76ers would have had a team of specialists look at the guy for every conceivable malady.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on November 20, 2018, 01:54:23 PM
Asked about how his team plans to contain the Trail Blazers’ high-scoring backcourt, David Fizdale responded simply, “Prayer.”

i guess that's what we are down to now.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 20, 2018, 02:19:48 PM
Shoulders take a long time to heal.
Easy to reinjure.

I saw a game a few days ago, and Fultz's FT shooting looked funky.
He made the first with a hitch in his shot.
the 2nd he missed badly to the left side, but alertly followed and got his own rebound.  But those FT's looked unusual.

Speaking of shoulders, didn't Franc have tape on both last game?  I knew he had one bum shoulder, which does affect shooting and maybe has him less willing to shoot.  Are both his arm-hubs dinged up?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on November 20, 2018, 02:22:09 PM
I haven't seen anything that leads me to believe in Frank as our future point guard.

love his defense.  Love his size. however his playmaking skills, handle,  and shooting ability are way below what we would need long term.

as of now his future is coming off the bench to guard.  that's not a bad thing.  every good team could use a defensive  specialist. he can guard 3 positions.  so that's good. 

the only hope is he is so young he could work his ass off and improve his game . no reason he can't shoot better than he does.  36%/30% simply won't cut it.

he really has  a long way to go. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 20, 2018, 02:26:12 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on November 20, 2018, 10:48:11 AM
We were looking closely at Donovan Mitchell.

I like Frank, but I've never seen his value tied to him being a starting PG. I think he's more likely a starting SG next to a Kemba/Kyrie type at PG, or third guard.

And whom do you project as being...AVIALABLE to us? 

There ARE NO Kemba/Kyrie types coming available in the summer of 2019. 

I'm afraid we will need to grow our own. 

https://hoopshype.com/2018/08/09/nba-free-agency-2019-point-guards/ (https://hoopshype.com/2018/08/09/nba-free-agency-2019-point-guards/)

How can I say that? 

Do we really see Kyrie leaving the Celtics? 

Or Kemba leaving the Hornets? 

Seriously?

Let alone Rubio leaving the Jazz? 

Is Eric Bledsoe significantly better than anyone we currently have on board? 

For that matter would the Nyets let us hijack unrestricted FA Spencer Dinwiddie? 

Does Terry Rozier project as significantly better than Trey Burke as a shoot first lead guard?  Two inches taller...I await Bank's snark on this.  And I really like Rozier, but an RFA.  Would not come cheap in a trade, if Ainge would even entertain dealing with his EC rival. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 20, 2018, 02:29:55 PM
Quote from: Nagel on November 20, 2018, 02:22:09 PM
I haven't seen anything that leads me to believe in Frank as our future point guard.

love his defense.  Love his size. however his playmaking skills, handle,  and shooting ability are way below what we would need long term.

as of now his future is coming off the bench to guard.  that's not a bad thing.  every good team could use a defensive  specialist. he can guard 3 positions.  so that's good. 

the only hope is he is so young he could work his ass off and improve his game . no reason he can't shoot better than he does.  36%/30% simply won't cut it.

he really has  a long way to go.

Indeed. 

Nothing the matter with projecting him as a sixth man who can bring D off the bench. 

His lead dawg instincts seem to be a work in project. 

Worth wondering, as in DUH, how the return of Kristaps affects the dynamics of everyone, and how assists totals might rise with the targets of passes were looking at single coverage 24/7...oh, and MAKING SHOTS. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 20, 2018, 02:31:14 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on November 20, 2018, 01:24:28 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 20, 2018, 01:00:15 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on November 20, 2018, 12:41:26 PM
On the advice of his lawyer 76er's Fultz won't practice or play until his shoulder is seen by a specialist next week.

Isn't that the job of an Agent?  Maybe the lawyer is the agent??  Or perhaps the agent doesn't want to piss of the 76'ers under his own name.

You would think given all the attention/drama re Fultz the 76ers would have had a team of specialists look at the guy for every conceivable malady.

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQSBk3j7VyL5Bmnl0YVuj-f8kntA2HYH0y4eTE5Q1cq3vPOjCQXhQ)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on November 20, 2018, 02:45:57 PM
how about this chip.  a Nagel fantasy. that might become a reality.

first we must agree that KD is leaving GS  ( i also think Klay is going to LA) to go to NY to play with the Unicorn. KD of course gave him that nickname.

so they who do we have.

Durant
KP
Hardaway.
Robinson

I agree with you about Trey.  i would start him with this group

3 guys who can block shots.  4 guys who can score and very, very big.  KD would own the Garden with KP.

the bench?

knox
Frank
Vonleh
Dotson
Trier
our #1 pick in 2019  likely top 5

we need to try to buy out or trade Lee / thomas.  However if lee could fit in the cap he could help off the bench.

would that make you happy?  i would be very happy.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 20, 2018, 03:06:09 PM
Durant and a top pick?  Damn Daniel!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 20, 2018, 03:07:49 PM
Quote from: Nagel on November 20, 2018, 02:45:57 PM
how about this chip.  a Nagel fantasy. that might become a reality.

first we must agree that KD is leaving GS  ( i also think Klay is going to LA) to go to NY to play with the Unicorn. KD of course gave him that nickname.

so they who do we have.

Durant
KP
Hardaway.
Robinson

I agree with you about Trey.  i would start him with this group

3 guys who can block shots.  4 guys who can score and very, very big.  KD would own the Garden with KP.

the bench?

knox
Frank
Vonleh
Dotson
Trier
our #1 pick in 2019  likely top 5

we need to try to buy out or trade Lee / thomas.  However if lee could fit in the cap he could help off the bench.

would that make you happy?  i would be very happy.

Not sure I agree about Klay to LA. 

And Durant to New York? 

Over the summer, I would've said no way. 

No, make that no fucking way.

Now I'd say we have a puncher's shot. 

I am confident that Kerr & Curry will right the ship. 

But I think the blow-up with Green very much means KD is in play. 

As per the rest of your phantasy, Zigster, let me do some errands and get back to you. 
Title: Klay to LA
Post by: Kam on November 20, 2018, 03:11:10 PM
People who say Klay to LA are banking on the connection with his father and the Lakers and how he would be the perfect complement to LeBron.

But those are his Dad's dreams.  Or LeBrons.  Klay wants for nothing.  He has no desires.  He is like the NBA Buddha.  Content where he is.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 20, 2018, 04:57:18 PM
If we got KD I would expect a vet PG to come in.  But short of that even Frank is ok at starter

And we should then keep the effective vet defender Thomas.
Title: Nagel's Dream
Post by: chipstern on November 20, 2018, 05:08:25 PM
We part company on the general predilection of this Forum and yourself to simply write off Mudiay and Kanter, let alone Hezonja.  Mudiay and Kanter have been coming on, and I suspect a light bulb is going to go off for Hezonja in due time, given how Fizz keeps everyone believing and ready, even if they are nailed to the pine...Burke being exhibit A. 

Nor am I ready to anoint Mitchell Robinson as a fixture at the 5/4 in 2019-2020, my own enthusiasm for his upside notwithstanding.  Trier.  Love him, but the league is paying attention.  Would benefit from KP drawing attention, as would Knox, who should be coming off the bench. 

It is not even XMAS and I am not ready to consign ANYONE to the scrap heap. 

As for our team and all the losing? 

We are not a joke. 

Look at Orlando last year and look at them THIS YEAR.  New coach, new system, many pups a year older and a year wiser. 

We have talent.  We lack cohesion.  We lack consistency.  We lack confidence. 

This is what tossing Pups into the deep end looks like. 

The All-Rookie starting lineup gave us a terrific start against NO and a desultory one against Orlando (both teams which have been playing really tough against all manner of competition. 

We have not closed out well, but in the greater majority of our games, we have been competitive and the hunt most of the way. 

Oh, and while you were snoozing, Timmy Hardaway has made major strides as a bell cow and a leader and a more well-rounded player. 

In any event, our aspirations are roughly comparable, save for the odd vapor locks where I recoil at your muscle memory of past abominations, understandable though they most definitely are, and the manner in which you are wont to recoil from bumps in the road as if NOTHING HAS CHANGED. 

It has.  Most DEF. 

PS: The Dream, the impossible dream of a possible KD/ZION jackpot notwithstanding, reflect if you might on the manner in which Anthony Davis is leading and supercharging the Pelicans, and how KP could very well do likewise...and how any number of Knicks, going up, going down, could very well reach a new level of consistency facing single coverage, and with a Bell Cow who simply demands double and triple teams, yet still can get to the rack and get off one-leg/Dirk perimeter missiles. Anyway, Go KNICKS.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 20, 2018, 05:28:04 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on November 20, 2018, 04:57:18 PM
If we got KD I would expect a vet PG to come in.  But short of that even Frank is ok at starter

And we should then keep the effective vet defender Thomas.

If we got KD, the Puppy Points we are presently nurturing, would have more room to grow and to play with command. 

The veteran points who might come available? 

A) How desirable?

B) How affordable?

Whether or not we re-up Kanter, let alone Hezonja and Mudiay, we are not likely to have funding to get a Rubio or a Teague or a Bledsoe in addition to a Durant. 

If we have a Top Five Pick, a truly dominant PG prospect has yet to emerge. 

I am dreaming of Zion, but, whereas we are in Soft Tank Mode, Cleveland is in TOTAL TANK MODE.  So, that is a remote Wet Dream.

However, Durant is suddenly on the radar, though I wouldn't get my hopes up too damn high.

Still, the availability of a veteran PG notwithstanding, the prospect of having both Durant and KP at the 3 & 4, let alone at the 4 & 5, would most certainly afford those projects and pups currently auditioning and going through their growing pains, the opportunity to excel in a team game with two bonafide inside-outside threats demanding coverage and transforming our overall team game. 

PS: Just for the sake of argument, as I do not have a dog in this hunt, the Knicks were sitting on the #5 pick in the draft, as I believe we presently are, and the Wizards dangled John Wall, would you bite?  Even given his baggage and the immensity of his contract?  Just asking?   And this from someone who does not believe in bartering our #1 picks.  Still, if we could add a top tier PG to Durant and KP and Hardaway, well? 

PPS: As perhaps the only two Mudiay enthusiasts on this board, I've been gratified to bear witness to the level of confidence he has displayed under Coach Fizdale, who refused to give up on him.  Scoring more than assisting?  Ditto Burke?  Motherfuckers might have more assists if their targets could nail their jumpers. 

PPPS:  But then the quality of ball movement we showed flashes of coming out of the gate has taken a step backwards, as has the defense.  Plainly, we're going to have to take our lumps. 
Title: Dream A Little Dream For Me
Post by: chipstern on November 20, 2018, 05:37:19 PM
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/HJyinBemz-g/maxresdefault.jpg)

Ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...Ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...Ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm


Former Knicks guard and Turner Sports analyst Greg Anthony played with Larry Johnson, one of the premier athletes the college game has ever seen, for two seasons at UNLV. Johnson had the ability to play inside and out, to jump over and through opponents, and shoot from the perimeter. Williamson’s game, Anthony said, is more advanced as a freshman than Johnson’s was as a junior.

“His game is a little more evolved,” said Anthony, who has seen Williamson up close on the AAU circuit while following his son, Cole, a top-rated senior guard at Oak Hill Academy.

“Larry was a power forward who could play on the perimeter; Zion is a perimeter player who can play in the paint.”

Title: Zion isn't the #1 pick
Post by: Kam on November 20, 2018, 05:54:47 PM
on his own team
Title: Enes Kanter
Post by: Kam on November 20, 2018, 06:00:42 PM
should stop making waves
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 20, 2018, 07:46:06 PM
Kanter starting, along with Zonja, Mud & Tim.
Vonleh the only defender out there to open the game.
Interesting.

My guess is we get creamed early.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 20, 2018, 08:20:38 PM
Nice 1Q from Vonleh and Tim.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 20, 2018, 08:38:18 PM
"Vet" lineup clicking.

In other news.... Jimmer gets 43-6-5 today in Sharks win.
Title: Phew
Post by: carlos123 on November 20, 2018, 09:50:23 PM
PERFECT GAME!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on November 20, 2018, 09:54:34 PM
Tanks a lot!
Title: Re: Phew
Post by: Kam on November 20, 2018, 09:56:49 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on November 20, 2018, 09:50:23 PM
PERFECT GAME!!!

Those missed Vonleh free throws were so clutch for the tank.
Title: Re: Phew
Post by: carlos123 on November 20, 2018, 09:59:31 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 20, 2018, 09:56:49 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on November 20, 2018, 09:50:23 PM
PERFECT GAME!!!

Those missed Vonleh free throws were so clutch for the tank.

The tank is BEAUTIFUL .... But I wouldn’t mind beating the f’in Celts mañana.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on November 20, 2018, 09:59:39 PM
Quote from: Nagel on November 20, 2018, 02:45:57 PM
how about this chip.  a Nagel fantasy. that might become a reality.

first we must agree that KD is leaving GS  ( i also think Klay is going to LA) to go to NY to play with the Unicorn. KD of course gave him that nickname.

so they who do we have.

Durant
KP
Hardaway.
Robinson

I agree with you about Trey.  i would start him with this group

3 guys who can block shots.  4 guys who can score and very, very big.  KD would own the Garden with KP.

the bench?

knox
Frank
Vonleh
Dotson
Trier
our #1 pick in 2019  likely top 5

we need to try to buy out or trade Lee / thomas.  However if lee could fit in the cap he could help off the bench.

would that make you happy?  i would be very happy.

I hope you're right, bro.

I don't know how much more of these types of seasons leading to no fruit I can take as a fan (this one at least feels more worthwhile). Yes, we could wait another season if we can't get any of these top players, and the "new" approach we finally started following like the rest of the NBA has just started, so I'm not completely abandoning ship.

I've already taken some steps back, watch more soccer than b-ball which is crazy talk for me 5-10 years ago. Did far worse to baseball which I don't even follow.

Still love basketball but this team has been tough on us all. I think we have the most dedicated fanbase in the NBA, and we're all old or really old compared to a young man's sport like basketball because we can't attract anyone but loyal naive young NYers, and the old ones who still think the Nets belong in Jersey or Long Island. It ain't golf.

Heard Ho Beck on Knicks Film School seem to think as some fans fear that we may never reach a promised land as long as Dolan owns the team. That we may be fooled by the "changes in culture", and the word and culture may still be out there that doubts the lure of the Knicks because of the management, not the city.

That all being said, enjoying the games far more this season.
Title: Triple Half-Double
Post by: Kam on November 20, 2018, 10:02:19 PM
EKant with 7pts 5 rbs 6 ast
Title: Re: Triple Half-Double
Post by: PrezIke on November 20, 2018, 10:04:56 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 20, 2018, 10:02:19 PM
EKant with 7pts 5 rbs 6 ast

Yet he still probably has no use to us after this season, most likely, as you know.

Was on the bench during the stretch though as Fiz went with all guards and Vonleh.
Title: Kanter value
Post by: Kam on November 20, 2018, 10:28:58 PM
Best case scenario trade: Kanter and Mudiay  ($23mil in expiring salary)  for Bradley Beal or John Wall.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 21, 2018, 05:12:34 AM
I assumed if WASH were to do any salary dump involving Wall/Beal that they'd want to dump Mahinmi (another year @ $15M) as well.  So a Kanter<->Mahinmi swap to save them money as part of a Beal/Wall trade.

Wiz managed a 39 Pt 4Q to beat the Clips.
Wiz were down 19 @ Home after 1Q, and if they quit or even just lost, things could have gotten ugly.  Scrapping out a home win, they at eats showed fight and some pride.

I was flipping to their game during Kick timeouts.
Wiz now 6-11

And their next 5 are tough:
Sat Nov 24  @Toronto 
Sun Nov 25  vs New Orleans 

Tue  Nov 27 vs Houston
Thu  Nov 29 @ New Orleans 
Sat  Dec 1   @ Philadelphia

Then 4 weak sisters (but 3 of them Road games):
Sun  Dec 2  vs Brooklyn   
Tue  Dec 4  @New York
Thu  Dec 6  @Atlanta
Sun  Dec 9  @Cleveland
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 21, 2018, 10:52:26 AM
 Re:  the draft, at #6-8 pick

Looking now at  more seasoned players - both SF -Hachimura and Wilkes, both playing out West

If a younger guy, maybe Indiana SG Langford or Frank's former teammate Doumboya.

Bol Bol should be somewhere in the picture.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 21, 2018, 11:10:46 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 20, 2018, 07:46:06 PM
Kanter starting, along with Zonja, Mud & Tim.
Vonleh the only defender out there to open the game.
Interesting.

My guess is we get creamed early.

Heh....

Offense, baby.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 21, 2018, 11:58:54 AM
What's this I hear?

20-9-9 for DANGelo in a road win?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on November 21, 2018, 02:43:16 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on November 21, 2018, 10:52:26 AM
Re:  the draft, at #6-8 pick

Looking now at  more seasoned players - both SF -Hachimura and Wilkes, both playing out West

If a younger guy, maybe Indiana SG Langford or Frank's former teammate Doumboya.

Bol Bol should be somewhere in the picture.

Hachimura has looked like a bubble-first round player so far, not a mid-lottery type. His hoops IQ is just so low. Let's see if he sorts things out, but I doubt the Knicks would consider him for too seriously.

Porter Jr is the kid to watch in that draft area, although he could get hot and put pressure on Reddish and Little and join that second tier in the 3-5 range, just ahead of where you are talking about. Maybe Langford or Grimes or Keldon Johnson will get looks, but not sure any of those guys are the right fit unless THJr gets moved unexpectedly.

Watch Jalen McDaniels for a potential draft riser - he's a Jonathan Isaac type, he'd fit well on the team, although he'd also be a project. Simi Shittu another lottery-worthy project, but he may want another year in school unless he recovers from his ACL quicker than expected.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 21, 2018, 03:23:00 PM
Lol

#3 team in nation 24 ppg scorer.

61% from field.

Yeah.....late first, surely for Hachimura

Heh.
Title: ESPN Real Plus Minus
Post by: Kam on November 21, 2018, 05:11:18 PM
Tim Hardaway Jr.: 0.70 RPM (92nd)
Noah Vonleh: 0.66 RPM (93rd)
Mitchell Robinson: 0.58 RPM (97th)
____________________________
Lance Thomas: -0.91 (206th)
Trey Burke: -1.00 (221st)
Luke Kornet: -1.08 (232nd)
Emmanuel Mudiay: -1.31 (267th)
Ron Baker: -1.62 (308th)
Damyean Dotson: -1.86 (332nd)
Enes Kanter: -2.11 (359th)


Frank, Trier, Mario and Knox not in the top 400
Title: Re: Kanter value
Post by: Nagel on November 21, 2018, 05:30:45 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 20, 2018, 10:28:58 PM
Best case scenario trade: Kanter and Mudiay  ($23mil in expiring salary)  for Bradley Beal or John Wall.

seriously?

While Beal is a better version of Hardaway we already have a scorer at the 2 and have you actually looked at Wall's deal?  40 million per over the next 4 years.

please.

you are giving up any chance at KD or Kawhi with this deal.  Wall just told his coach to fuck off.  perfect choice.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 21, 2018, 05:42:45 PM
Told the press to fuck off.

But I agree the 40+ mil per is not something I want to give to that type player

Could Beal play with Hardaway?  I don't see why not.

But I am all in on smooching KD then using a plan B if we don't land him.
Title: Re: Kanter value
Post by: Kam on November 21, 2018, 06:02:02 PM
Quote from: Nagel on November 21, 2018, 05:30:45 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 20, 2018, 10:28:58 PM
Best case scenario trade: Kanter and Mudiay  ($23mil in expiring salary)  for Bradley Beal or John Wall.

seriously?

While Beal is a better version of Hardaway we already have a scorer at the 2 and have you actually looked at Wall's deal?  40 million per over the next 4 years.

please.

you are giving up any chance at KD or Kawhi with this deal.  Wall just told his coach to fuck off.  perfect choice.

A bird in hand vs one in the bush mean anything to you?
Title: Re: Kanter value
Post by: chipstern on November 21, 2018, 06:11:22 PM
Quote from: Nagel on November 21, 2018, 05:30:45 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 20, 2018, 10:28:58 PM
Best case scenario trade: Kanter and Mudiay  ($23mil in expiring salary)  for Bradley Beal or John Wall.

seriously?

While Beal is a better version of Hardaway we already have a scorer at the 2 and have you actually looked at Wall's deal?  40 million per over the next 4 years.

please.

you are giving up any chance at KD or Kawhi with this deal.  Wall just told his coach to fuck off.  perfect choice.

Fuck both Wall AND Beal. 

Wall?  40 million. 

Beal?  We have Timmy...and Dotson...and Trier. 

No quick fixes.  No shiny objects.  No DDD Cup Tits. 

Been there.  Done that. 

Being in rebuild mode is painful, but purposeful. 

Stay the course. 

Again, don't start spreading out the Welcome Mat for KD quite yet. 

Winning team...$40-$50 million per for five years. 

That's...persuasive. 

You can deep dry your turkey.

Or Slo-Cook it in the Crock Pot. 

Mark me down for the Crock. 

Wall is a great talent.  But not winning in DC with Beal as his back court partner? 

WAKE UP CALL. 

PS: Remote, very remote, as possibilities go, but Rubio is an FA in the summer of 2019.

PPS: Best case scenario?  Come on Kam.  23 million in expiring contracts for some ME-FIRST Loser?  I'll wait for the summer of 2019, thanks.  NO MORE WIRE HANGERS!
Title: If you don't get Durant who else is better than Wall?
Post by: Kam on November 21, 2018, 06:30:43 PM
40 mil is the new 28 mil
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 21, 2018, 06:36:26 PM
I would take Wall  or Beal+Mahinmi

Not taking Wall + Mahinmi
Title: Re: If you don't get Durant who else is better than Wall?
Post by: lesterluv on November 21, 2018, 07:16:35 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 21, 2018, 06:30:43 PM
40 mil is the new 28 mil

I'd rather have my fat Uncle Pete and 39.15 mil still left in the bank account.



*** we can safely assume Uncle Pete will sign for the league minimum
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 21, 2018, 07:20:45 PM
Wow. Duke is explosive.

Good game.  Zags super well-coached.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 21, 2018, 07:27:34 PM
I don't see Wall as a me-first loser.  If LeBron had played in the West instead of the East we'd have a different appreciation for Wall and company.
Title: That said
Post by: Kam on November 21, 2018, 07:36:38 PM
Tim Hardaway has shown actual improvement to the point that his $17mil contract is a non-factor or even a slight positive.

What a difference a year makes.

He has genuinely improved from a Bad defender (his first few years) to a still not good but trying level that coaches love.

His drawing charging fouls sacrificing the body and his increased effort to rebound and share the ball has him as a Top 100 player for a reason.

I think the premium paid to sign him from ATL as a RFA was worth it.

He has actual trade value, and value to us if we keep him. His contract is no longer a negative.
Title: Celtic Goon
Post by: Kam on November 21, 2018, 07:48:31 PM
Baynes is a Cro-Magnon Basketball "player"
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on November 21, 2018, 07:58:31 PM
C's not at their best lately eh?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 21, 2018, 08:00:36 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on November 21, 2018, 07:58:31 PM
C's not at their best lately eh?

They better not ruin tanksgiving.
Title: Eleven years later
Post by: Kam on November 21, 2018, 08:07:09 PM
https://vimeo.com/23822575 (https://vimeo.com/23822575)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on November 21, 2018, 08:13:15 PM
Fiz has this team playing so much harder than any coach we've had in ages.
Title: Re: Eleven years later
Post by: PrezIke on November 21, 2018, 08:14:15 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 21, 2018, 08:07:09 PM
https://vimeo.com/23822575 (https://vimeo.com/23822575)

Wow these videos!  lmao
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 21, 2018, 08:18:19 PM
Celticcs announcer:

"No disrespect to the Knicks but the Celtics are playing the CELTICS tonight."
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on November 21, 2018, 08:18:59 PM
Wonder what Tommy has to say about this start
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 21, 2018, 08:27:15 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on November 21, 2018, 08:18:19 PM
Celticcs announcer:

"No disrespect to the Knicks but the Celtics are playing the CELTICS tonight."

What does that mean?  How is that not disrespect?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on November 21, 2018, 08:38:50 PM
Treysanity!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on November 21, 2018, 08:49:36 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 21, 2018, 08:27:15 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on November 21, 2018, 08:18:19 PM
Celticcs announcer:

"No disrespect to the Knicks but the Celtics are playing the CELTICS tonight."

What does that mean?  How is that not disrespect?

I turned the game on about mid-way through the 2nd qtr and the Knicks were up by 15 and stretched it to 22, so I did not hear the above statement, but I think it meant the Celts have done a pretty good job of beating themselves over the past 2 weeks with mostly terrible offense and terrible (3 pt)  shooting.

Tonight it seems they've tried to overlay no D atop of terrible shooting.

Getting close to the time for a team shrink (Dr and lost minutes for some guys).



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on November 21, 2018, 08:54:03 PM
1 for 13 on 3s

brutal
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 21, 2018, 09:20:37 PM
Celt fan myth:  Knicks are not talented.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 21, 2018, 09:21:54 PM
Do the Celts have a Duke-like run in them?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on November 21, 2018, 09:30:57 PM
Impressive performance I have to say.

One game, but even in the landscape of tanking a good win, if we can pull it off.
Title: f'in C's
Post by: carlos123 on November 21, 2018, 09:38:01 PM
Bank, nothing personal, but I'd really like to win this game.

Tanking is overrated if we play the f'in C's!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 21, 2018, 09:45:19 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on November 21, 2018, 09:21:54 PM
Do the Celts have a Duke-like run in them?

Apparently they do.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on November 21, 2018, 09:46:03 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on November 21, 2018, 09:45:19 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on November 21, 2018, 09:21:54 PM
Do the Celts have a Duke-like run in them?

Apparently they do.

Don't you mean an NBA like run (good team vs bad team with a big lead, especially)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on November 21, 2018, 09:46:47 PM
I just realized...is that Howard Eisley on the C's bench?

EDIT:

Our bench?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 21, 2018, 09:54:02 PM
No composure from #7
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on November 21, 2018, 09:55:59 PM
Melo-esque dare I say from Burke
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 21, 2018, 09:56:20 PM
BIG BLUE dagger!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on November 21, 2018, 09:56:29 PM
burke is our point.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on November 21, 2018, 09:56:40 PM
Boston is one of the biggest disappointments (so far) in the NBA.

i thought hey would be leading the East not a 9-8 team and maybe just a .500 team if they lose to the Knicks.

Haywood?  clearly not recovered.  Horford?  way under his career numbers.  brown?  shooting % way down.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 21, 2018, 09:57:55 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on November 21, 2018, 09:46:03 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on November 21, 2018, 09:45:19 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on November 21, 2018, 09:21:54 PM
Do the Celts have a Duke-like run in them?

Apparently they do.

Don't you mean an NBA like run (good team vs bad team with a big lead, especially)

Sorry.  Duke/Gonzaga still fresh in my mind
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on November 21, 2018, 09:58:48 PM
Yet, I remember beating the Cavs in Cleveland last season early on and getting hyped.

Not the same thing, but both teams in some disarray it seems.

Still, good performance. Won't count on it, but good for the team development.
Title: Re: f'in C's
Post by: bankshot1 on November 21, 2018, 10:03:17 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on November 21, 2018, 09:38:01 PM
Bank, nothing personal, but I'd really like to win this game.

Tanking is overrated if we play the f'in C's!


All good Carlos, good win for you guys.

Happy Thanksgiving
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on November 21, 2018, 10:08:04 PM
Celt fans expected the usual feast against the Knix. Learned  how to hit from beyond the arc.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 21, 2018, 10:11:30 PM
We needed the positive vibes.

We still got to figure out how to close games, but building a huge lead prior to the 4th Q seems to be one way to do it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on November 21, 2018, 10:12:46 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on November 21, 2018, 09:20:37 PM
Celt fan myth:  Knicks are not talented.

Celtic fan fact: When good NBA teams play like shit they can be beaten by anyone.

And the Celts have played like shit for the past 3 weeks and for most of tonight and got beat.

And to Nagel's point, Celts have been very disappointing so far. Gordo is maybe 90% but Jaylen Brown has been really disappointing, he seems distracted.

This is the 4th game over the past 3 weeks they got down by 20+ points only to battle back to 3 down.

Too little too late.

Too often.

Too many guys believed the pre-season hype. 

Title: Re: f'in C's
Post by: carlos123 on November 21, 2018, 10:36:06 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on November 21, 2018, 10:03:17 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on November 21, 2018, 09:38:01 PM
Bank, nothing personal, but I'd really like to win this game.

Tanking is overrated if we play the f'in C's!


All good Carlos, good win for you guys.

Happy Thanksgiving

Thanks Bank.

Happy Thanksgiving to you too

And Haspy Thanksgiving to everyone
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 21, 2018, 11:10:07 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on November 21, 2018, 08:49:36 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 21, 2018, 08:27:15 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on November 21, 2018, 08:18:19 PM
Celticcs announcer:

"No disrespect to the Knicks but the Celtics are playing the CELTICS tonight."

What does that mean?  How is that not disrespect?
I turned the game on about mid-way through the 2nd qtr and the Knicks were up by 15 and stretched it to 22, so I did not hear the above statement, but I think it meant the Celts have done a pretty good job of beating themselves over the past 2 weeks with mostly terrible offense and terrible (3 pt)  shooting.

Tonight it seems they've tried to overlay no D atop of terrible shooting.

Getting close to the time for a team shrink (Dr and lost minutes for some guys).

NO.

I strongly disagree. 

I remember thinking during the first half: "What the Knicks are doing and how they are playing AS A TEAM, more closely resembles CLASSIC CELTICS BALL than what the Celtics themselves are doing."

Oh, and the notion that the Celtics defeated themselves. 

Like all of those missed threes occurred in a vacuum? 

I BEG TO

Differ

The Knicks played with a focused defensive tenacity throughout. 

Fizz's current deployment of the starting lineup and the second unit...WORKED. 

Everyone made a contribution and felt involved. 

Mudiay [PG] Hardaway [SG], Hezonja [SF], Vonleh [PF], Kanter [C]

I like this unit coming off the bench. 

Burke [PG], Trier/Hardaway [SG] Ntilikina [SF], Knox [PF], Robinson/Vonleh [C]. 

And I mean...I like the idea of Mudiay starting and Trey coming in off the pine.  Gives us a lift. 

Take a bow, KEMBA BURKE. 

Would 

Not

Let

Us

LOSE

Okay.  That felt good.  Because the Celtics are a damn good team, going through changes, much as the Warriors are, much as Houston did.  Hey, the CELTICS MADE ONE HELL OF A LATE RUN.  And we bent but did not buckle, as we did against the Pelicans and Blazers, both of whom we played tough, but couldn't close out. 

Enjoy the holiday, Knicks, and let's see what we can bring against the Pelicans, who have a more dominating bell-cow/big in Davis, and a better set of three point shooters. 

PS: Anyone notice at game's end, who were the two Knicks with the biggest smiles and the most nachas for Trey Burke...Emmanual Mudiay and Frank Ntilikina, that's who.  Go FIZZ.  Go KNICKS. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on November 22, 2018, 12:20:23 AM
Chip

The Celts have beaten 1 good team in the past 2+ weeks, Toronto, and it took Kyrie playing one of the best games of his career to win that game in OT.

But the Celts haven't played well really all season, and their 3-point shooting has been brutal against everyone. And its become an issue.

This isn't a just tonight thing. Their offense isn't working.

But they had been playing good D, so they were getting by, barely, and until a few nights ago was the stingiest in the league in ppg.

But they've slacked off there too, the last few games.

there is nothing Celtic-like about the Celts right now.

Brad and Danny have lots to be thankful for, mostly they got a talented team and a lot of time to try and fix some problems.

And yes the Knicks played well and shot well and it was a good win.

So congrats.

and have a Happy Thnaksgiving
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 22, 2018, 04:26:44 AM
Only saw the 1st half, when the Knix looked terrific and the Celts were sluggish and not cohesive.

Not sure we can count on Noah V to score 8 every 1Q, but it sure helps the games when he does.  And Mud has been a decent scorer, not afraid to shoot.  Knix looked like a team.
That full 48 of play v. POR helped, methinks.

Celts?
Now I'm trying to remember who I traded Hayward for last season . . .

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on November 22, 2018, 09:57:58 AM
Hahahaha. Kam wants us to get Beal for basically Mudiay and Chip says "No thanks, we have Allonzo Trier". Self parody. Ridiculous.

(If you get Beal for that price, it actually helps you get Durant, although it would cost you first rounders to get rid of THJr plus Courtly. Still, worth it if it means you've got a core of KD/KP/Beal plus Knox/Ntilikina/2019 1st rounder and the ability to keep some combination of Dotson, Trier and Vonleh).


Quote from: Kam on November 21, 2018, 07:36:38 PM
Tim Hardaway has shown actual improvement to the point that his $17mil contract is a non-factor or even a slight positive.

What a difference a year makes.

He has genuinely improved from a Bad defender (his first few years) to a still not good but trying level that coaches love.

His drawing charging fouls sacrificing the body and his increased effort to rebound and share the ball has him as a Top 100 player for a reason.

I think the premium paid to sign him from ATL as a RFA was worth it.

He has actual trade value, and value to us if we keep him. His contract is no longer a negative.

I've been as loud as anyone suggesting that the path to cap freedom is moving Timmy. He's made me a believer, and I think Kam has done a good job articulating why. He wasn't this player last year. I suppose what was apparent was his fire and competitive spirit. He put a lot of work in. He doesn't put his head down when he misses (he's still a streaky player, but he just shoots his way out of his bad runs a lot more quickly than he used to). He's shown some leadership skills. He puts his body on the line. He brings much needed intensity. Credit due to management for seeing this. My bad for not.

I'd be willing to attach assets to rid ourselves of Courtly, either second rounders and cash now or, if we need to in the summer, first rounders or Dotson or Trier or all of the above if that's what it takes to clear the space for KD. But Timmy looks like part of the solution if you answer yes to this question: Can he be this valuable as the third option (behind KP and another player) on a great team as opposed to just the first option on a bad team?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 22, 2018, 10:37:53 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on November 22, 2018, 12:20:23 AM
Chip

The Celts have beaten 1 good team in the past 2+ weeks, Toronto, and it took Kyrie playing one of the best games of his career to win that game in OT.

But the Celts haven't played well really all season, and their 3-point shooting has been brutal against everyone. And its become an issue.

This isn't a just tonight thing. Their offense isn't working.

But they had been playing good D, so they were getting by, barely, and until a few nights ago was the stingiest in the league in ppg.

But they've slacked off there too, the last few games.

there is nothing Celtic-like about the Celts right now.

Brad and Danny have lots to be thankful for, mostly they got a talented team and a lot of time to try and fix some problems.

And yes the Knicks played well and shot well and it was a good win.

So congrats.

and have a Happy Thnaksgiving

(https://i.chzbgr.com/full/4622249984/h0CB377BF/)

Better days a comin'

(https://cbschicago.files.wordpress.com/2018/08/sister-mary-jo.gif?w=420&h=236)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on November 22, 2018, 10:55:52 AM
Chip-season's still early so I'm not giving up hope yet.

and fwiw that nun has a 99-mph heater and a nasty breaking ball and made Jaylen look really bad last night.
Title: Mister Self-Parody, Meet SENOR FARCE
Post by: chipstern on November 22, 2018, 12:28:06 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on November 22, 2018, 09:57:58 AM
Hahahaha. Kam wants us to get Beal for basically Mudiay and Chip says "No thanks, we have Allonzo Trier". Self parody. Ridiculous.

(If you get Beal for that price, it actually helps you get Durant, although it would cost you first rounders to get rid of THJr plus Courtly. Still, worth it if it means you've got a core of KD/KP/Beal plus Knox/Ntilikina/2019 1st rounder and the ability to keep some combination of Dotson, Trier and Vonleh).


Quote from: Kam on November 21, 2018, 07:36:38 PM
Tim Hardaway has shown actual improvement to the point that his $17mil contract is a non-factor or even a slight positive.

What a difference a year makes.

He has genuinely improved from a Bad defender (his first few years) to a still not good but trying level that coaches love.

His drawing charging fouls sacrificing the body and his increased effort to rebound and share the ball has him as a Top 100 player for a reason.

I think the premium paid to sign him from ATL as a RFA was worth it.

He has actual trade value, and value to us if we keep him. His contract is no longer a negative.

I've been as loud as anyone suggesting that the path to cap freedom is moving Timmy. He's made me a believer, and I think Kam has done a good job articulating why. He wasn't this player last year. I suppose what was apparent was his fire and competitive spirit. He put a lot of work in. He doesn't put his head down when he misses (he's still a streaky player, but he just shoots his way out of his bad runs a lot more quickly than he used to). He's shown some leadership skills. He puts his body on the line. He brings much needed intensity. Credit due to management for seeing this. My bad for not.

I'd be willing to attach assets to rid ourselves of Courtly, either second rounders and cash now or, if we need to in the summer, first rounders or Dotson or Trier or all of the above if that's what it takes to clear the space for KD. But Timmy looks like part of the solution if you answer yes to this question: Can he be this valuable as the third option (behind KP and another player) on a great team as opposed to just the first option on a bad team?

(https://i.gifer.com/1eO2.gif)

(https://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/tumblr_m8qne2xbnH1rxlmf0o1_250.gif)
Title: Post Script
Post by: chipstern on November 22, 2018, 03:05:22 PM
Lost in the joy of a win on Boston's home court, and the heroics of Trey Burke. 

The manner in which Fizz is keeping the Burke, Ntilikina and Mudiay competition active and positive, finding meaningful minutes for all. 

Last night Trey was first off the bench at PG and Frank was first off the bench at SF. 

(https://media.nexstardigitalmedia.com/nxsglobal/feedsite/photo/2018/11/22/201811212117766746953-p3_62870636_ver1.0_1280_720.jpeg)

Trey [32 minutes] was spectacular. 

Frank [27 minutes] was solid.

Emmanuel [20 minutes] got the starting five into rhythm, even though his own offense was sputtering (still two assists, a trey and 2-2 from the line). 

Ntilkina had a couple of really impressive drives to the hoop, and one has to believe that such aggressive penetration should be a bigger part of his offensive game.  He missed both of his threes, but hit a Trey Burke midrange jumper, and had two really impressive penetration-finishes. 

Ntilikina also drew the defensive assignment on Celtics bell cow Jayson Tatum, who had 15 points and 8 rebounds in 29 minutes, but was 4-12 from the floor and 6-9 from the charity stripe.  French Frank got up in his grill and really made him work. 

Oh, and a shout out to Senor Farce [Farsi?]...Trier had 8 points and 3 assists in 15 minutes, with a team leading +14. 

Pardon me while I slink away to get a grip.  Bradley Beal a wonderful player [21.8 ppg, 4.5 rebounds, 3.7 assists], playing with one of the league's premier point guards.  Meanwhile, Timmy getting it done for the Knicks in a less settled rotation, and is putting up comparable numbers [24.2 ppg, 3.7 rebounds, 2.9 assists, 1.1 steals and second in the league in taking charges behind Kyle Lowry of the Raptors].  Oh, and last season, over 57 games, Timmy was 146-179 from the charity stripe.  This year, in 18 games, he is already 96-115.  If he stays healthy and maintains that pace of FTAs, might we be looking at something on the order of 475 attempts? 

So riddle me this.  Playing as Beal does with one of the league's premier PGs, and being so demonstrably superior to Timmy (and eliciting a hearty Falstaffian guffaw from the Bizzer when I dared utter the 22 year old Trier's name in the same breath, upside be damned), how come the Wizards, a playoff team last season, are currently 6-11 and the demonstrably inferior Knicks, with a demonstrably inferior SG, are 5-14?  Riddle me that, Trader Vic. 

[We now pause so that Senor Farsi can lock and load and return fire, Biz Be Praised]

PS: Again, the Pelicans would appear to have our number.  Let's see which Knicks team shows up on its home floor tomorrow, and if we can string together TWO/48 Minute Team Efforts & Executions in a row, let alone exacting some payback from a team which ought to be piping hot after an photo finish with the Sixers.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 22, 2018, 07:59:13 PM
LOL

Sure.  Frank checked Tatum good.
Title: Bears Repeating
Post by: chipstern on November 22, 2018, 10:19:56 PM
Again, at the risk of repeating myself. 

I just love that picture of Mudiay and Ntilinka exulting in Burke's success. 

Says it all. 

Competition yielding individual growth, and joy for a team mate and the greater good, not jealousy. 

TEAM FIRST. 

Happy that Mudiay is finding confidence in his jumper. 

And praying for Frank at add another inch or two to his frame and that pterodactyl wingspan. 

Hope you had a peaceful day with your family, Kiid. 
Title: ñ and Ñ
Post by: carlos123 on November 22, 2018, 10:30:23 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 22, 2018, 03:05:22 PM

[We now pause so that Senor Farsi can lock and load and return fire, Biz Be Praised]

PS: Again, the Pelicans would appear to have our number.  Let's see which Knicks team shows up on its home floor tomorrow, and if we can string together TWO/48 Minute Team Efforts & Executions in a row, let alone exacting some payback from a team which ought to be piping hot after an photo finish with the Sixers.

Chip, for Señor and SEÑOR you can use Alt-164 and Alt-165. You're welcome.

Now, much as I enjoyed beating the f'in C's, time to get back to the beautiful tank. Pels are not our rivals. PLAY HARD, LOSE TIGHT, GO KNICKS, GO NTILIKINA!

Hope you all had a very happy Thanksgiving day.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on November 23, 2018, 12:26:11 AM
If Beal is so good why are the Wizards struggling? That's a pretty silly question. Basketball is a team game, chemistry, coaching and context matter. You'd think someone who saw the Knicks of the early 1970s would understand that.

Beal is, uh, better than Trier or Mudiay or whatever. That point is so self-evident I'm not going to debate it any further.

As for Kiid's question of whether Timmy and Beal can co-exist...I think there are legitimate questions on whether that pair can be a championship wing combo but surely they can be the wing combo for, say, a 48 win team next year, if KP were healthy and with cap space to add other pieces at PF and PG. Beal is also an excellent backcourt partner for Ntilikina if you're going to play Frank at PG. That's the type of off-guard Frank needs if he's going to start at the 1.
Title: Little things
Post by: thebizneverloses on November 23, 2018, 01:17:04 AM
Knicks leaders:

Deflections - THJr/Meech (Dot and Mudiay close)
Loose balls recovered - THJr (Dot and Kanter close)
Screen assists - Kanter (Vonleh and Meech close, nobody else though)
Charges - THJr (nobody close)
Contested shots - Meech! (Kanter and Vonleh very close, THJr not far off)
Pts off turnovers - THJr (a bit back are Burke and Kanter)
2nd chance points - Kanter (nobody close)
Opponent points off turnovers (not a good thing) - THJr (Dot right behind him)
Opponent points in the paint - THJr
% pts assisted - Lance (Knox right there)
% pts unassisted - Burke
Usage - THJr
Opp FG% - Dot (Vonleh and Franc right there)
Opp turnovers - Franc (Vonleh and THJr kinda close)
+/- : Knox! (Franc and THJr a bit back)
Drives - Burke (THJr and IsoZo follow)
Box Outs - Kanter (Vonleh and Lance are quite a ways back, and the team rebounds poorly off of Vonleh and Meech box outs)
Average running speed - Lance (Mudiay right behind him)
eFG% on catch and shoot - IsoZo, by a mile (do not let Kanter shoot catch and shoot jumpers)
eFG% on pull up jumpers - Mudiay (THJr right behind him, Burke a bit farther back)
Title: Re: Bears Repeating
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 23, 2018, 08:36:47 AM
Quote from: chipstern on November 22, 2018, 10:19:56 PM
Again, at the risk of repeating myself. 

I just love that picture of Mudiay and Ntilinka exulting in Burke's success. 

Says it all. 

Competition yielding individual growth, and joy for a team mate and the greater good, not jealousy. 

TEAM FIRST. 

Happy that Mudiay is finding confidence in his jumper. 

And praying for Frank at add another inch or two to his frame and that pterodactyl wingspan. 

Hope you had a peaceful day with your family, Kiid.

Thanks, bro

Yeah.  It was cool.

Had the hoops night Wednesday, including Duke-Zags, which I nailed - football day yesterday - and of course time with la familia.

Today its some Black Friday (read:  kids take my money) and high school football.  Some poker tonight.  Great week and still the weekend to play with.

Life is good.  Hope you had a great day yourself.

(Maybe Bank can confirm how many minutes Frank was checking Jayson)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 23, 2018, 08:46:59 AM
By the way, Wiz were 2-9.

4-4 when Dwight plays more than 8 minutes.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 23, 2018, 09:42:47 AM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on November 23, 2018, 08:46:59 AM
By the way, Wiz were 2-9.

4-4 when Dwight plays more than 8 minutes.

Missing Gortat.
Title: Re: Little things
Post by: thebizneverloses on November 23, 2018, 12:18:55 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on November 23, 2018, 01:17:04 AM
Knicks leaders:

Deflections - THJr/Meech (Dot and Mudiay close)
Loose balls recovered - THJr (Dot and Kanter close)
Screen assists - Kanter (Vonleh and Meech close, nobody else though)
Charges - THJr (nobody close)
Contested shots - Meech! (Kanter and Vonleh very close, THJr not far off)
Pts off turnovers - THJr (a bit back are Burke and Kanter)
2nd chance points - Kanter (nobody close)
Opponent points off turnovers (not a good thing) - THJr (Dot right behind him)
Opponent points in the paint - THJr
% pts assisted - Lance (Knox right there)
% pts unassisted - Burke
Usage - THJr
Opp FG% - Dot (Vonleh and Franc right there)
Opp turnovers - Franc (Vonleh and THJr kinda close)
+/- : Knox! (Franc and THJr a bit back)
Drives - Burke (THJr and IsoZo follow)
Box Outs - Kanter (Vonleh and Lance are quite a ways back, and the team rebounds poorly off of Vonleh and Meech box outs)
Average running speed - Lance (Mudiay right behind him)
eFG% on catch and shoot - IsoZo, by a mile (do not let Kanter shoot catch and shoot jumpers)
eFG% on pull up jumpers - Mudiay (THJr right behind him, Burke a bit farther back)

The moral of this story: Timmy is not providing empty stats, he's a real team leader. Kanter, his atrociously weak defensive help aside, provides more value than many believe he does. Vonleh is putting in work. Burke provides something very unique to the team. All the rookie contract kids are a ways behind these guys in terms of contributing today, much as we are excited by them and their upside.
Title: Re: Little things
Post by: chipstern on November 23, 2018, 02:29:45 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on November 23, 2018, 12:18:55 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on November 23, 2018, 01:17:04 AM
Knicks leaders:

Deflections - THJr/Meech (Dot and Mudiay close)
Loose balls recovered - THJr (Dot and Kanter close)
Screen assists - Kanter (Vonleh and Meech close, nobody else though)
Charges - THJr (nobody close)
Contested shots - Meech! (Kanter and Vonleh very close, THJr not far off)
Pts off turnovers - THJr (a bit back are Burke and Kanter)
2nd chance points - Kanter (nobody close)
Opponent points off turnovers (not a good thing) - THJr (Dot right behind him)
Opponent points in the paint - THJr
% pts assisted - Lance (Knox right there)
% pts unassisted - Burke
Usage - THJr
Opp FG% - Dot (Vonleh and Franc right there)
Opp turnovers - Franc (Vonleh and THJr kinda close)
+/- : Knox! (Franc and THJr a bit back)
Drives - Burke (THJr and IsoZo follow)
Box Outs - Kanter (Vonleh and Lance are quite a ways back, and the team rebounds poorly off of Vonleh and Meech box outs)
Average running speed - Lance (Mudiay right behind him)
eFG% on catch and shoot - IsoZo, by a mile (do not let Kanter shoot catch and shoot jumpers)
eFG% on pull up jumpers - Mudiay (THJr right behind him, Burke a bit farther back)

The moral of this story: Timmy is not providing empty stats, he's a real team leader. Kanter, his atrociously weak defensive help aside, provides more value than many believe he does. Vonleh is putting in work. Burke provides something very unique to the team. All the rookie contract kids are a ways behind these guys in terms of contributing today, much as we are excited by them and their upside.

Pain

+

PAIN

=

Progress

Happy Holy Daze, Biz.
Title: Kanter & Robinson
Post by: chipstern on November 23, 2018, 02:42:49 PM
Fizz making sense, to me anyway.

Kanter-Vonleh-Hezonja-Hardaway-Mudiay

Robinson-Knox-Ntilkiina-Trier-Burke

I must confess to a rooting interest in Subpar Mario.  Am waiting, hoping, he gets on track, and am impressed that Fizz has not given up on him. 

Like watching Mudiay last season...the idea, the execution, but not the finish. 

Knick on wood...let's see him hit two jumpers in a row, and one of those off the dribble drives to the hoop.

Meanwhile, anyone notice how hard Burke is working on the defensive end?  Not his forte, but like Timmy, he recognizes his shortcomings (like Timmy owning his 7 turnovers against the Celtics in an otherwise good outing).  Proving now that last season's late run was no fluke.  Loving his passion. 

And sorry Don Carlos but I am rooting for wins.  Given that Cleveland is in TOTAL TANK MODE, our shot at Zion seems, for practical reasons, remote.  Sort of like KD and Kemba. 

So in the short run, in lieu of those two, doubling down on my Roo Toot for Kevin and Trey. 

Was glad to see Kevin make a bee-line for the hoop and free throws instead of simply settling for long jumpers. 

Progress. 

And Mitchell Robinson seems more effective letting Enes warm things up for him, and joining French Frank as defensive stalwarts in the second unit. 

Tommy Beer: Mitchell Robinson  is on pace to become just the ninth rookie since 1990 to average at least 2 blocks per game.  Here are the other eight players in this exclusive club: David Robinson, Dikembe Mutombo, Alonzo Morning, Shaq, Chris Webber, Michael Stewart, Pau Gasol and Tim Duncan.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 23, 2018, 03:07:46 PM
While it hasn’t generated the kind of chemistry and discipline to get regular wins yet, Fizz seems to have the young vets performing, at least in the past week or two, at or beyond career bests. He is also getting more focused and impactful play from the youngins. He moved everyone in that 10 man rotation through the starting lineup, and while our pups cycled back out the experience gave them firsthand knowledge of what they will have to do to take and hold that job. You see it in the performances of Trier, Frank, Mitch, and Knox over the last couple of games. It will be interesting to see what becomes of Mario. Can he rise to par? If so, in what capacity?

I think we can stay as close as 4 to 6 spots off the bottom record while still competing and improving, especially if KP stays under wraps into the spring. It’s low odds Zion territory, but it’s still a neighborhood where a team can find seriously helpful talent.

Most importantly, if we keep things up, we’ll be fun to watch all season.
Title: Re: Bears Repeating
Post by: bankshot1 on November 23, 2018, 03:18:18 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on November 23, 2018, 08:36:47 AM
Quote from: chipstern on November 22, 2018, 10:19:56 PM
Again, at the risk of repeating myself. 

I just love that picture of Mudiay and Ntilinka exulting in Burke's success. 

Says it all. 

Competition yielding individual growth, and joy for a team mate and the greater good, not jealousy. 

TEAM FIRST. 

Happy that Mudiay is finding confidence in his jumper. 

And praying for Frank at add another inch or two to his frame and that pterodactyl wingspan. 

Hope you had a peaceful day with your family, Kiid.

Thanks, bro

Yeah.  It was cool.

Had the hoops night Wednesday, including Duke-Zags, which I nailed - football day yesterday - and of course time with la familia.

Today its some Black Friday (read:  kids take my money) and high school football.  Some poker tonight.  Great week and still the weekend to play with.

Life is good.  Hope you had a great day yourself.

(Maybe Bank can confirm how many minutes Frank was checking Jayson)

Sorry kid I can't confirm French Frank's defensive contribution-I put the game on mid 2nd qtr, Celts were already down about 15 and within minutes were down 26. Only thing I really checked at the half was the Celts 3s, and they were 1 for 13. Don't win a whole lotta games hitting 7%. So garbage time kicked in early. I poured myself a double, probably a triple, and didn't pay close attention until the game got close with a few minutes left.

But I can find out FF's #s if its important.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 23, 2018, 04:31:02 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 23, 2018, 03:07:46 PM
While it hasn’t generated the kind of chemistry and discipline to get regular wins yet, Fizz seems to have the young vets performing, at least in the past week or two, at or beyond career bests. He is also getting more focused and impactful play from the youngins. He moved everyone in that 10 man rotation through the starting lineup, and while our pups cycled back out the experience gave them firsthand knowledge of what they will have to do to take and hold that job. You see it in the performances of Trier, Frank, Mitch, and Knox over the last couple of games. It will be interesting to see what becomes of Mario. Can he rise to par? If so, in what capacity?

I think we can stay as close as 4 to 6 spots off the bottom record while still competing and improving, especially if KP stays under wraps into the spring. It’s low odds Zion territory, but it’s still a neighborhood where a team can find seriously helpful talent.

Most importantly, if we keep things up, we’ll be fun to watch all season.

I believe Fizz would like Mario to function as a sixth man/instant offense plug-in at SF & PF. 

So far...seems to be overthinking things...pressing...trying to PROVE he deserved the shot Perry gave him. 

Knick on wood.  I am hoping he finds his BURKE Moment, wherein he concludes, THIS IS WHO I AM, a tiger cannot change its stripes. 

We shall see.  We are not even into December yet.  Looking at his post-All-Star break highlights with the Magic from last season is tantalizing. 

As for FIZZ and his rotations...

He is genuinely trying to give everyone a look, a shot, to build their confidence (and team spirit) by showing confidence in them. 

Remember how many big minutes Baker got. 

Dotson was nailed to the pine, then got showcased.  Now sitting and waiting....knowing his time will come again. 

Likewise Burke.  Who seems to be thriving in coming off the bench with the second unit, and finishing off with the best five at fourth quarter crunch time. 

Not so much that he has players on a yo-yo, as media pundits such as Berman suggests, as he is still sorting out what he has, which combos work, and when to pull the trigger; finding a balance between offensive/defensive lineup balances. 

EVERYONE has been up and down, but Burke's emergence is really a testament to the confidence and trust Fizz is working to instill.

Or as Padre Riles liked to put it, "I know you're ready, but are you prepared."

Likewise, while I recognize the good-humored snark in Don Carlos' desire for lots of close losses, my attitude about the lottery is that the draft will take care of itself. 

We didn't get Towns, and ended up with Porzingis. 

We didn't get Doncic, and ended up with Knox. 

We didn't get Bomba and ended up with Robinson. 

I would offer up my mother to Hamas for the opportunity to draft Zion (luckily, she is dead, and thus, very open-minded about such a transaction), but hey, look at what Philly did with multiple lottery picks.  Simmons and Embid?  Winners, who missed out on one and two seasons respectively.  Elsewise?  Noels...Okafor...Fultz...

NOTHING IS WRITTEN. 
Title: Re: Lotto
Post by: carlos123 on November 23, 2018, 06:01:54 PM
Chip, missing out on KAT and Doncic was missing out on two stars, KP consolation prize notwithstanding. I’m not buying what you selling.

GO KNICKS, PLAY HARD, LOSE TIGHT!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 23, 2018, 06:57:57 PM
I think Fizz would prefer to start Mitch and have Kanter rampage against 2nd units.  But Mitch was getting into early foul trouble.  hence the flip.

This is a development year, so Mario will get ops/reps.  But since Knox returned, there's less time for Mario.  Of course, with lance out, things are fairly open for Mario.

One interesting development this year is how vets have been removed from the equation.  Courtly is either injured or forgotten.  Maybe we'll showcase him for a trade later.  Noah was sent packing (with suitcases full of money).  Lance had minor surgery that likely could have waited if we were a playoff team.  Basically Kant and Tim, young vets at 26, have graduated to old vets.

Edit: I didn't realize Trey Burke just turned 26 two weeks ago.
Born in 1992, same year as Tim and Kant.

Only 167 minutes this season have gone to a Knick over age 26.
And that's all Lance.
Title: Re: Post Script
Post by: Kam on November 23, 2018, 08:17:16 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 22, 2018, 03:05:22 PM

Ntilkina hit a Trey Burke midrange jumper, and had two really impressive penetration-finishes. 


I did a double-take when i saw that shot. It was pure Burke.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 23, 2018, 09:45:50 PM
Dang, forgot about the Knick game.

Was watching Hou@DET and Cha@OKC.
Some undrafted guy Deonte Burton provided OKC with lots of 2nd half energy.  Kemba looked super-confident and great 1st half, then looked beat late 2Q and started playing terrible.  A real odd change.
 
Tuned in with 7 minutes left Knix down 7 or 8.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 23, 2018, 09:48:16 PM
Knix with 21 assists.
Mud suddenly taking over the 4Q.

Never liked Ian Clark -- mistake player.

Knix win with Mud & Trier.
NOPe lost their mojo.
KNix were playing harder.
Title: WOW!!!
Post by: carlos123 on November 23, 2018, 10:07:55 PM
This was fun.

Maybe I should abandon the beautiful tank and become a full fledged POSITIVE PUSSY.

What’s a Knicks fan to do?

Playoffs anybody???
Title: Re: Little things
Post by: Kam on November 23, 2018, 10:08:06 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on November 23, 2018, 12:18:55 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on November 23, 2018, 01:17:04 AM
Knicks leaders:

Deflections - THJr/Meech (Dot and Mudiay close)
Loose balls recovered - THJr (Dot and Kanter close)
Screen assists - Kanter (Vonleh and Meech close, nobody else though)
Charges - THJr (nobody close)
Contested shots - Meech! (Kanter and Vonleh very close, THJr not far off)
Pts off turnovers - THJr (a bit back are Burke and Kanter)
2nd chance points - Kanter (nobody close)
Opponent points off turnovers (not a good thing) - THJr (Dot right behind him)
Opponent points in the paint - THJr
% pts assisted - Lance (Knox right there)
% pts unassisted - Burke
Usage - THJr
Opp FG% - Dot (Vonleh and Franc right there)
Opp turnovers - Franc (Vonleh and THJr kinda close)
+/- : Knox! (Franc and THJr a bit back)
Drives - Burke (THJr and IsoZo follow)
Box Outs - Kanter (Vonleh and Lance are quite a ways back, and the team rebounds poorly off of Vonleh and Meech box outs)
Average running speed - Lance (Mudiay right behind him)
eFG% on catch and shoot - IsoZo, by a mile (do not let Kanter shoot catch and shoot jumpers)
eFG% on pull up jumpers - Mudiay (THJr right behind him, Burke a bit farther back)

The moral of this story: Timmy is not providing empty stats, he's a real team leader. Kanter, his atrociously weak defensive help aside, provides more value than many believe he does. Vonleh is putting in work. Burke provides something very unique to the team. All the rookie contract kids are a ways behind these guys in terms of contributing today, much as we are excited by them and their upside.

A lot of Kanter's 2nd chance points are a direct result of him missing the first chance.
Title: Re: Kanter & Robinson
Post by: Kam on November 23, 2018, 10:12:19 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 23, 2018, 02:42:49 PM

And sorry Don Carlos but I am rooting for wins.  Given that Cleveland is in TOTAL TANK MODE, our shot at Zion seems, for practical reasons, remote.  ]

Familiarize yourself with the odds.  The bottom 4 have the same shot.

http://www.tankathon.com/pick_odds (http://www.tankathon.com/pick_odds)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 23, 2018, 10:17:20 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 23, 2018, 09:42:47 AM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on November 23, 2018, 08:46:59 AM
By the way, Wiz were 2-9.

4-4 when Dwight plays more than 8 minutes.

Missing Gortat.

Heh.
Title: Re: Little things
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 23, 2018, 10:18:03 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 23, 2018, 10:08:06 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on November 23, 2018, 12:18:55 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on November 23, 2018, 01:17:04 AM
Knicks leaders:

Deflections - THJr/Meech (Dot and Mudiay close)
Loose balls recovered - THJr (Dot and Kanter close)
Screen assists - Kanter (Vonleh and Meech close, nobody else though)
Charges - THJr (nobody close)
Contested shots - Meech! (Kanter and Vonleh very close, THJr not far off)
Pts off turnovers - THJr (a bit back are Burke and Kanter)
2nd chance points - Kanter (nobody close)
Opponent points off turnovers (not a good thing) - THJr (Dot right behind him)
Opponent points in the paint - THJr
% pts assisted - Lance (Knox right there)
% pts unassisted - Burke
Usage - THJr
Opp FG% - Dot (Vonleh and Franc right there)
Opp turnovers - Franc (Vonleh and THJr kinda close)
+/- : Knox! (Franc and THJr a bit back)
Drives - Burke (THJr and IsoZo follow)
Box Outs - Kanter (Vonleh and Lance are quite a ways back, and the team rebounds poorly off of Vonleh and Meech box outs)
Average running speed - Lance (Mudiay right behind him)
eFG% on catch and shoot - IsoZo, by a mile (do not let Kanter shoot catch and shoot jumpers)
eFG% on pull up jumpers - Mudiay (THJr right behind him, Burke a bit farther back)

The moral of this story: Timmy is not providing empty stats, he's a real team leader. Kanter, his atrociously weak defensive help aside, provides more value than many believe he does. Vonleh is putting in work. Burke provides something very unique to the team. All the rookie contract kids are a ways behind these guys in terms of contributing today, much as we are excited by them and their upside.

A lot of Kanter's 2nd chance points are a direct result of him missing the first chance.

Heh.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 23, 2018, 10:21:27 PM
Fun game for sure, but kinda think we don't take it if MitchRob doesn't go full-on Zaza Pachulia. He better get over that if he wants to keep his teeth. Somebody's gonna get real mad sooner or later.
Title: Do you guys remember Kurt Thomas
Post by: Kam on November 23, 2018, 10:21:30 PM
Kurt could get a low double-double AND ALSO be a real asset on defense.

Since then we've had a bunch of double-double guys who are just turnstyles.

Yeah, you can stuff your stats if you increase pace and trade baskets.
Title: The Tank Diaries
Post by: Kam on November 23, 2018, 10:29:37 PM
The tank may have misfired this week, but i'm not upset. It's always worth it to stick more pain to the Celtics, and dropping them to 9-9 was fun.  And nobody expected a full season without a winning streak.  Currently at 2.  Nice to beat another good team while we're at it.

PS:  I fully expect the tank to be rolling down Beale street Sunday night
Title: Top 3 things to be Thankful for this Thanksgiving
Post by: Kam on November 23, 2018, 10:33:25 PM
1. The 2018 NBA draft:  With Mitch and Zo it really looks like we got two guys who should have been first round picks.
2. The improvement and improved consistency of Tim Hardaway jr.
3. Coach Fizdale for giving everyone multiple chances and trying multiple lineups with no regard to salary.
Title: and considerable mention
Post by: Kam on November 23, 2018, 10:42:40 PM
4. Noah Vonleh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 23, 2018, 10:54:52 PM
I was just about to bring up Vonleh as a Dirty Kurty kind of player we have on this squad who gives substance with his recent string of double-doubles.

We have a lot of guards who can go off and they all play hard on or off.

Kanter has turned up his D to effortfull and almost passable. It makes him a scratch player which is a big help.

The big thing holding Knox and Mitch back at this point are fouls.

I don’t know if we’ll always win if we play this well, but I hope we can sustain our level of play and find out.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 23, 2018, 11:07:09 PM
Some wins here and there, esp against decent teams, are the fertilizer this crop occasionally requires.  I have no issue there.  I don't like the wins against the weak teams.  That's a dual back breaker.  Gives them a loss and us a W.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 23, 2018, 11:08:12 PM
Kanter-Vonleh might be what is needed in the SL

Offense/Defense
Title: MUDIAY & VONLEH
Post by: chipstern on November 23, 2018, 11:37:05 PM
Fizz won't give up on any of his pups or reclamation projects. 

Emmanuel was a bulldog tonight: 7 rebounds and 4 steals to go with 27 points. 

And nobody was happier for him than Trey Burke.

Just as no one was happier for Trey the other night than Mudiay and Ntilikina. 

Like Fizz say, pulling for each other, no jealousy, team first,

Then go after each other in practice. 

Oh, and the Noah Vonleh/Kurt Thomas comparisons made me smile.  As did Vonleh's 4-7 from trey, 11 rebounds, 5 assists, 2 steals and 2 blocks.  He and Enes make for a nice dynamic balance...the much maligned EK with 7-12, 12 boards, 2 assists, 1 steal and 3 blocks, thank you very much. 

Mudiay & Vonleh. 

Two of our reclamation projects are evolving nicely. 

And our puppy Trier...HOLY SHIT.  Sorry Biz, your Kanter/Mudiay for Beal scenario is fascinating, but the Wiz can keep Beal, with all due respect to BB: Allonzo, 9-12, 3-3 from trey, with 8 rebounds and 4 assists.  Still think I'm tripping? 

Fuck ME. 

And on an evening when Timmy couldn't find his ass with both hands in a rainstorm, a big defensive play leading to the Mudiay breakaway, 4 assists and 2 FTs to seal the deal. 

Two good wins against Two GOOD TEAMS. 

And Sunday on the road in Memphis. 

[Gulp]

We Shall See. 

Anyway, that was fun...and once again, the Garden was rocking with chants of defense.  Been a while. 

PS: Not missing Kyle O'Quinn. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 24, 2018, 04:31:52 AM
Enes is going to have to defend like he did in his good stretches this game for a while before I stop missing O’Quinn. I don’t know if he would have been too alike to function with Vonleh and I don’t think we’re likely to ever find out. The Pacers certainly aren’t getting much use out of him.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2018/11/how-new-lottery-odds-will-affect-nbas-race-to-the-bottom.html (https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2018/11/how-new-lottery-odds-will-affect-nbas-race-to-the-bottom.html)

This is a good reference if you want to clarify your stance vis-a-vis tanking as our record oscillates over the course of the season. 


Teams 1-6 should be excited about their prospects. After that there is a pretty good drop off.

It seems there’s a chance we’ll see Lee in the next homestand.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 24, 2018, 05:25:47 AM
Speaking of Courtney Lee, assuming he looks good in his return, I dreamed up a little deal with one of our division rivals who are definitely in the hunt and have recently weakened their frontcourt and depth for a star wing. We give Philly pieces for their run at the East this year. We shuffle our strengths and get Courtney Lee off the books.

Kid’s insistence that Enes can play PF with the right center partially inspired this.

Enes Kanter, Courtney Lee, and Trey Burke for Mike Muscala, Wilson Chandler, and JJ Reddick.

Reddick would have to agree.

The Sixers would have the Embid Kanter thing, consecutively or concurrently as they see fit. Enes is a big upgrade over Muscala to compensate for the drop off from Reddick to Lee who as a 3&D guy might be a better compliment to Butler and Simmons. They also get a spark plug scorer in his prime in Trey which would help them swallow the Lee money next year.

All the guys we bring in would expire.

We’d still have sixteen guys. Muscala would give us a completely different dynamic, but paired with Vonleh would be stout enough up front with better weakside help in exchange for rebounding. On offense the frontcourt could keep up with the guards. Wil gives Knox and and Mario a great mentor while being a 2 way adult 3-4. JJ is JJ. We’d have at shooting guard a similar bounty to what we’d let Philly have a center.

Muscala Mitch Kornet
Vonleh Chandler KP
Mario Knox Thomas
Hardaway Reddick Dotson
Mudiay Trier Frank

Bye bye Baker unless Reddick would want a buyout so he could pick a contender. Even then I’d probably be for this deal for the cap savings and influx of mobile skill up front.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on November 24, 2018, 07:55:09 AM
Sixers aren't giving up JJ Redick for that return. Not even for Timmy.

How about Courtney Lee and Trey Burke for Markelle Fultz?  They'd say no, but it does give them shooting. Hurts us this year, but Fultz is still worth a roll of the dice. And we'd have about enough money with that trade to sign KD to a max deal.


Vonleh has turned into my fave Knick. He *must* be re-signed. KP/Meech/Vonleh/Knox is fine as the four bigs next year if we are still rebuilding and don't acquire any big name vets.

I can live without Subpar Mario. I'd rather see Dotson get those minutes.

Knox is not a good NBA player right now. Hope Fiz continues to give him time, however. He doesn't need to start or play >25 mpg, but I'd like to see him get consistent minutes.


Kam, Lester - we need to have a heart-to-heart on Mudiay. He might be here next year. Are you ready to reconcile yourselves with that possibility?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on November 24, 2018, 07:56:54 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 23, 2018, 03:07:46 PM
Most importantly, if we keep things up, we’ll be fun to watch all season.

For me, this is the second most fun team of the past decade, after our 54 win team that would have beat Indy in the playoffs had Lance and Augustin not had career games and had Woody benched Amare earlier and had Kidd hit one of his last, what was it, 25 shots?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on November 24, 2018, 08:18:12 AM
Please say no to anyone over 26 except a major star missing piece. Knix have been looking for major band aid fixes for decades. Flawed clunkers all.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 24, 2018, 08:34:52 AM
Fizz called Vonleh the Knix "most complete player"
Funny since we got him off the scrap heap.

I like what he's brought, but lets see if he can keep up with double digit scoring.  It wasn't too long ago where he was bricky.  And then there was a foul-prone stretch.  He has been fine in this good stretch.
If he can keep fouls in check and score efficiently, he's a keeper.  Like most young players he needs to develop consistency.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 24, 2018, 10:06:49 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on November 24, 2018, 07:55:09 AM

Kam, Lester - we need to have a heart-to-heart on Mudiay. He might be here next year. Are you ready to reconcile yourselves with that possibility?

If he keeps playing like last night AND ups it on "D," I'll handle it.

** small sample size, but extremely impressed that he has almost eliminated those bonehead make-me-cringe-drives-to-nowhere. I keep expecting to cringe and then I DON'T!

*** in no way does this recent "blossoming" change my position on priorities. Frank's development, by whichever method turns out to be correct (benching, starting, unlimited minutes, limited minutes, g-league, unfettered green light, quick yanks), remains a much greater priority

Title: Re: MUDIAY & VONLEH
Post by: Kam on November 24, 2018, 10:19:36 AM
Quote from: chipstern on November 23, 2018, 11:37:05 PM

PS: Not missing Kyle O'Quinn.

Heh.

Told you.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 24, 2018, 10:27:46 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on November 24, 2018, 10:06:49 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on November 24, 2018, 07:55:09 AM

Kam, Lester - we need to have a heart-to-heart on Mudiay. He might be here next year. Are you ready to reconcile yourselves with that possibility?

If he keeps playing like last night AND ups it on "D," I'll handle it.

** small sample size, but extremely impressed that he has almost eliminated those bonehead make-me-cringe-drives-to-nowhere. I keep expecting to cringe and then I DON'T!

*** in no way does this recent "blossoming" change my position on priorities. Frank's development, by whichever method turns out to be correct (benching, starting, unlimited minutes, limited minutes, g-league, unfettered green light, quick yanks), remains a much greater priority

Emmanuel Mudiay  aka Hey man you'll boo the guy has looked ok.  Won't we have to renounce him to have a shot at anyone?
Title: Kam Sandwich, The Continuing Saga
Post by: chipstern on November 24, 2018, 11:48:36 AM
Vonleh is younger than O'Quinn, and has proven more athletic. 

We have an option on Mudiay for 2019-2020, in the form of a qualifying offer of $5.75. 

Kanter, Mudiay, Robinson. 

Where is Melo these days? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 24, 2018, 12:46:57 PM
There will be a cap hold on Mudiay but not for an exorbitant amount.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on November 24, 2018, 01:25:33 PM
NY needs enough cap space to sign KD if if he wants to come.

that's pretty simple.

Perry need to keep that in mind and I am sure he thinks about it every day.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 24, 2018, 02:42:01 PM
KO'Q has been used sparingly by IND.
He played v. SAS as MyTurn was out.
KOQ looked pretty sharp, did a nice give and go backdoor to CoryJoe, from the 3-point line.  5 Boards and 3 assist in 12 mins.  Problem was he picked up 3 quick fouls, two that looked rather minor/maybe.  He looked ready. to have a nice game, but the 4 fouls limited his minutes. 

TJ Leaf played well.  11 Pts in 16 mins.  Athletic 6'10".  Ran the floor and played above the rim.  One miscue where he tried to drive and the ball went zooming out of bounds way ahead of him.  Only his 4th game this year with double digit minutes.  first with double digit Points.  Hell, only 2nd game with more than 2 points.  But he looked good in his best game of the season.

I didn't realize Spurs were below .500.  The win got them to even.
or that LMA was at just 42% FG this year.  Yikes.  He got into his office and killed in this game.  14-25 FG and 14 boards.  IND missed Turner.  Sabonis couldn't stop LMA.

First I've seen Aaron Holiday.  The 3rd Holiday in the League.
This was his 4th straight games with good minutes and double digit scoring.  He looks like a 6'1" version of JRue.  Lots of energy but he made lots of mistakes too.  A blatant charge on a fast break (for shame).  Didn't pass on another 2-on-1 fast break and had his layup blocked.  Missed all 5 of his 3's.  But he did have energy and speed and you can see a player there if he just reigns it in a little, slows down a bit.  made one nice pass, had one nice steal (leading to the 2-on-1 break).  When Oladipo returns, he'll probably go back to 3rd PG role.

Tyreke Evans looked like he was auditioning to be a cousin of Lance Stevenson.  Went 1-12 FG and got back to that fling the ball at the rim style he used to have years ago.  Embarrassing game.  And with Oladipo out, that's how you lose.  Reke is shooting 37% FG this year.  Ouch.

For Spurs, Gay Rudy did a lot of everything.  Cunningham did nice grunt work.  Mills matched Holiday's energy, but also shot well.  Forbes kept miscuing -- 4 fouls and 4 turnovers, mostly when I was watching.  I like Poeltl and good to see Q Pondexter is still in the Association.  He had a rough go of things healthwise for a few years.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 24, 2018, 02:48:48 PM
Wiz continue to stink.
They started some beefy 2nd rounder Thomas Bryant.  With Dwight buttsore.  Mahinmi DNP.

Awful Rivers = PER of 6.06.
Shooting splits: 38% / 33% / 60%

Wash with as many W's as NYK.
They really need to shake things up.
And drop salary.  On paper they have a terrific starting 5.  No excuse for their weird bench, and poor chemistry.

ESPNetwork has some trade idea of Beal for Lonzo and Ingram.
WIZ should try to interest LAL in Wall for Lonzo and KCP.
Would improve WASH defense greatly.
Unload Wall huge upcoming deal.

Lakes should say No.  Wall overpaid and too ball dominant for an LBJ team.  Beal would go with the Add Shooters To LBJ theory of life.
But I don't see how that help WASH, adding players at PG and SF where they have Wall & Porter.  Money saving and young talent would be the lure.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 24, 2018, 03:04:47 PM
These trade machine guys

A)  can't judge talent

B)  should pay attention to news, feelings out of the respective cities.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 24, 2018, 03:55:26 PM
This is a take on money deal for us, so the Spurs will need to kick in their second rounder or Toronto’s first if as expected it falls outside the top 20 picks.

Davis Bertans for Trey Burke and Ron Baker.

We get a young Latvian effective though light weight stretch 4 and a pick while clarifying our backcourt and getting the roster to 15 without making cuts.

Pop gets Trey to compete with Forbes and Mills and to see if he can possibly get something out of Baker.

We’d have

Kanter Mitch Kornet
Vonleh Bertans KP
Mario Knox Thomas
Hardaway Dotson Lee
Mudiay Trier Frank
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 24, 2018, 05:15:30 PM
Why not keep Burke, a bench scoring machine?

When DeJounte comes back next year, Spurs don't need DJMurray, Mills & Burke.

Not a good deal for either team, methinks.
Knix could simply waive Baker and keep Burke.

I saw an article lambasting the Knix for trading Willy Hernancortez.
Yeah, it was something of a Sell Low.  But Kanter is a much better rebounder, inside scorer, non-defender.  And we have two 2nd rounders coming from CHA (2020 & 2021).  Once CHA moved on from Dwight, it gave Willy a chance to play.  Still had to beat out $17M Biyombo.  Willy wanted more playing time or out.  Knix accommodated.  Maybe just a useful move for both teams.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on November 24, 2018, 05:45:04 PM
Not to many teams around with the scoring skills of the Knix PG trio (Burke, Trier, and Mud). HC just needs to develop assist mentality which should come mainly from repetition.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 24, 2018, 05:59:23 PM
Trier not a PG.
Tho he's been used there some.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 24, 2018, 09:26:58 PM
Don't know if this is Holiday Hangover Hoops or what, but some ugly games ongoing.
OKC struggled to score 40 in the 1st half at Home v. DEN.  Down 21.
The most interesting thing si watching Grizzled Adams and Jokic annoy each other.

WIZ-NOP is a complete no defense affair.  Neither team looks interested in winning.
Pels 2nd unit not even bothering to guard Wizards 3-pointers.  Lots of sloppy turnovers and
general poor play.

Also, Rockettes losing to Cavs.

And I have a 3rd game, BOS losing to DAL.
Just started watching that.

Three games, so I might find one that's watchable . . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on November 24, 2018, 11:04:14 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 24, 2018, 10:27:46 AM
Emmanuel Mudiay  aka Hey man you'll boo the guy has looked ok.  Won't we have to renounce him to have a shot at anyone?

Mudiay's cap hold is 9 million (edit: it's actually 12.8). He definitely would need to be renounced to make an offer on a $30 million max (not even enough for Durant, but would be enough for someone like Khris Middleton or Kemba Walker, if we went that route).

But Mudiay's salary will be less than that. And if Courtly is somehow moved, that opens up a lot more flexibility, such as the ability to sign Mudiay to a two year, $10m deal; that would reduce the impact of his cap hold and leave us enough money to sign Durant, for example.

The other Durant scenario possibility is that we sign Mudiay to the room exception. As a cap space team, we wouldn't have access to the full $9.0m MLE, but Mudiay might be willing to sign for the room exception (4.6m next year).

Finally, if the Knicks don't get a player who's a good fit in free agency, they may bite the bullet and accept that the Noah stretch was just really myopic, pass on free agency this year, and build from within. Mudiay would presumably stay in that scenario.

Worth noting that while the Knicks don't need a C with Porzingis or Robinson, it's mostly a weak draft for PGs (and to a lesser extent SGs). There may not be a point worth taking in the middle of the lottery. So that may be a context in which NY wishes to bring back at least one if not both of Mudiay and Burke, especially if Ntilikina is not viewed as a full-time PG.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 25, 2018, 12:36:07 AM
Biz, Mudiay is under the 15-16 CBA. He was picked 7th so his QO after this his 4th year is 34.1% more than his current salary of $4,294,480.00 - That comes to $5,756,215.68

I get this from Bkref for the salary numbers and Realgm for the 15-16 rookie scale which would apply. Here are the links

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mudiaem01.html (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mudiaem01.html)

http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/info/rookie_scale/2016 (http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/info/rookie_scale/2016)

At the under 6 million number we’d be nuts to renounce him if he can keep up his recent level of play.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on November 25, 2018, 01:19:08 AM
whatever it takes to get KD ( if he wants NY) we do.

so please stop talking about keeping anyone but KP.  does anyone really care about the rest of the team?

EVERYONE can go if they have to.

If we have KD and KP then plenty of guys will want in.  In fact I think there would be a flood of talent begging to join.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 25, 2018, 09:07:59 AM
Quote from: Nagel on November 25, 2018, 01:19:08 AM
whatever it takes to get KD ( if he wants NY) we do.

so please stop talking about keeping anyone but KP. does anyone really care about the rest of the team?

EVERYONE can go if they have to.

If we have KD and KP then plenty of guys will want in.  In fact I think there would be a flood of talent begging to join.

Yes
Title: The New Analytics
Post by: chipstern on November 25, 2018, 09:19:59 AM
In last night's Minny V Chicago epic?

Wiggins and Covington were a combined 1-30.

That is not a misprint. 

Oh, and 0-14 from trey. 

Meanwhile Colin Sexton was 14-21 as Cleveland beat Houston, and was 1-3 from trey. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on November 25, 2018, 10:47:35 AM
Quote from: chipstern on November 25, 2018, 09:07:59 AM
Quote from: Nagel on November 25, 2018, 01:19:08 AM
whatever it takes to get KD ( if he wants NY) we do.

so please stop talking about keeping anyone but KP. does anyone really care about the rest of the team?

EVERYONE can go if they have to.

If we have KD and KP then plenty of guys will want in.  In fact I think there would be a flood of talent begging to join.

Yes

I also care about lots of guys on this team. Mgmt has done an excellent job finding overlooked talent, and Fiz seems like the right coach. You don't win with even a guy like Durant, let alone get him to pay attention to your team in the first place, if your team isn't attractive. And the Knicks have found talent in all kinds of places:

Dotson, Meech - 2nd round
Burke, Vonleh - scrap heap
Trier - unsigned hype
Mudiay - trade for a guy we weren't keeping 

Even Hezonja is a reclamation of sorts, although I'm of the opinion that there won't be enough run for everyone to make it in New York, and Subpar is the one I'm least invested in.

Maybe these guys are bundled the way Ainge bundled Isaiah (nabbed for a late first rounder) and Crowder (kind of a throw-in in the Rondo deal) along with the Brooklyn pick for Kyrie freaking Irving. Or the way Brand bundled Covington (scrap heap) and Saric (the only good part of the disastrous Vucevic/Iguodala trade that netted them Bynum) to get Jimmy freaking Butler. Or the way Morey bundled Beverley (scrap heap), Sweet Lou, and Montrezl (good drafting) along with a couple other assets for Chris freaking Paul. It's what smart teams do.

But in order to get those A or A+ assets, you have to have some B or B+ assets. We've got a couple. Some will stay, some won't, but all of them matter right now. You should be cheering them on heartily, by the way, because they are actually lots of fun.
Title: Starbury
Post by: thebizneverloses on November 25, 2018, 10:49:03 AM
"I’m still a diehard Knicks fan, this is what we go through, I even put us through it."
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on November 25, 2018, 11:03:59 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 25, 2018, 12:36:07 AM
Biz, Mudiay is under the 15-16 CBA. He was picked 7th so his QO after this his 4th year is 34.1% more than his current salary of $4,294,480.00 - That comes to $5,756,215.68

I get this from Bkref for the salary numbers and Realgm for the 15-16 rookie scale which would apply. Here are the links

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mudiaem01.html (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mudiaem01.html)

http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/info/rookie_scale/2016 (http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/info/rookie_scale/2016)

At the under 6 million number we’d be nuts to renounce him if he can keep up his recent level of play.

His QO is that figure. But a cap hold is actually different and it is always higher. For a rookie coming off of his fourth year at a salary below the MLE, it is 300% of the salary.

So Mudiay's hold is actually 12.8m, three times his salary this year.

Similarly, Porzingis has a cap hold of 17m, three times his salary this year.

Those cap holds basically count as the equivalent of salaries when calculating cap space until we resign them to a different amount or renounce them.

Burke and Vonleh are on on a minimum salary deals and have small holds, meaning we can sign them last. But, as said before, I will be surprised if we bring back all three of Burke, Mudiay, and Ntilikina to add to Hardaway and Trier, especially given that we might well be drafting a wing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 25, 2018, 01:58:31 PM
If Mudiay continues to play as I feel he will it will be a tough call whether or not to match offers

I do think the idea posted above - to get him at 2-3 years at cheaper than his hold - is a good one.

3-21, maybe.

I could live with the fallout of the lost cap space - plenty of free agents.
Title: Gut Your Roster For Durant Cap Space
Post by: chipstern on November 25, 2018, 03:11:04 PM
Yes, that strategy worked like a charm when we surrounded Carmelo with NADA. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 25, 2018, 03:22:00 PM
KD would be just another me-first loser who couldn't get it done if he hadn't taken the EZ-Pass to the Finals.
Title: Re: Gut Your Roster For Durant Cap Space
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 25, 2018, 04:05:38 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 25, 2018, 03:11:04 PM
Yes, that strategy worked like a charm when we surrounded Carmelo with NADA.

Hardaway is better than Melo was.

And Melo didn't have KP
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 25, 2018, 04:20:47 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 25, 2018, 03:22:00 PM
KD would be just another me-first loser who couldn't get it done if he hadn't taken the EZ-Pass to the Finals.

Oh, come now.  That's utter bullshit. 

Still, even so great a player as KD will need more than KP and Nagel's jizz to get it done in NY. 

The idea of gutting the team to get anybody. 

Remember how Donnie Douche eviscerated all of our talent for cap space. 

Dumb then.

DUMBER NOW. 

Fizz is actually building a culture and reclaiming "busts."

Mudiay

Vonleh

Burke

Hezonja still on the clock. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 25, 2018, 05:07:49 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 25, 2018, 04:20:47 PM
Fizz is actually building a culture and reclaiming "busts."
Mudiay
Vonleh
Burke
Hezonja still on the clock.

And you cash some of them in when you can: improve the team, upgrade, see their limits, avoid overpaying, balance the roster, etc.

Vonleh is probably the best because he shows possible 2-way ability and can project as a starter.  Also, defenders get paid less.

Burke looks useful but as a backup.
Who knows with Mud?  Can he ever become consistent?
I'd want to know his habits, and mentality and practices before deciding on him.   And see how the rest of his season unfolds.

Most importantly, Knix need a starting PG.
That's the real conundrum facing this team.
it's fun to have yute and depth, but right now, NYK is courting a rather weak starting 5.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 25, 2018, 07:19:43 PM
Pretty much what I said.  Keep Mudiay if cheap enough, spend on players other than KD.

Could expenditure be on PG?  Sure.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 25, 2018, 08:07:23 PM
C'mon fizzzz

Get Mudy in there
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 25, 2018, 08:08:59 PM
12 points 4 assists 19 minutes
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 25, 2018, 08:20:40 PM
Now he has been in 4 minutes and hasn't touched the ball

Hero ball by Burke
Title: IT’S OFFICIAL
Post by: carlos123 on November 25, 2018, 08:30:11 PM
Even before the end of this game I’ve decided to become a fully committed POSITIVE PUSSY.

I love this team. Tanking is overrated when winning is so much fun.

GO KNICKS!!!
Title: Bad Cats? [Positive Pussy Postscript]
Post by: chipstern on November 25, 2018, 08:36:44 PM
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/-f26yPh6cwU/maxresdefault.jpg)

Yes

(http://www.newvideo.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/PussyRiot-DVD-F.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on November 25, 2018, 08:47:30 PM
Yes, young with a new 3 headed scoring monster at guard. Now going toe to toe against a good team on the road. A very different and easy to like knix team.
Title: PS
Post by: chipstern on November 25, 2018, 08:50:53 PM
In lieu of all the specious, flippant, dismissive, ignorant-ass posts which we have to look forward to regarding Enes The Menace.

Just this once...

Fuck Each And Every One Of You Dipshits.

There...that feels better. 

Well...

Anyone else where you saw a stat line in a win of 21 points, 26 rebounds, 3 assists, against arguably the best old school center on the best old school team with the best record in the Western Conference, there might be some crow sashimi on the menu, not to mention that Emmanuel Mudiay fellow...

Too much to expect.  Or as Coach Fizz put it, "ENES WAS A MAN ON A MISSION."

Stick those cap holds up your ass. 

Get rid of the whole roster Nagel? 

There are no words...Earth To Ziggy--WE HAVE A TEAM TO ROOT FOR.  We are NOT A JOKE, capiche?

Anyway, three in a row.
 
D
E
F
E
N
S
E

Damn

PS: Jaren Jackson?  HOLY SHIT. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on November 25, 2018, 08:52:56 PM
Missed the game, but Mudiay really had one of the most striking turn arounds I can recall of a player over the last few games. Maybe Lin is the only one that stands out more, as it was also over a longer stretch.

No one with any semblance of sanity expected him to contribute much this season and I feel like a week or so ago was expected to be a likely candidate to be cut so Trier can stay on the roster.

Fiz is the biz. Hard to put this on anyone else.

The way the team interacts, and how they responded even after some very tough losses that could have led to the season spiraling out of control is like another universe compared to what we've seen. I've had my false moments of excitement, but the players really seem to play for him and almost everyone has improved their game on both ends.

He's beginning to seem like a potential Pep Guardiola of the NBA.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 25, 2018, 08:53:29 PM
Quote
Most importantly, Knix need a starting PG.
That's the real conundrum facing this team.
it's fun to have yute and depth, but right now, NYK is courting a rather weak starting 5.

Cough.

Ahem.

Yup

Weak.

Knicks just won a Knicks game. It’s been a little while since we even played in one.

Mudiay put a little dot on the point guard role.

Jaren Jackson is a truly scary kid.

I’m starting to think Fizz can coach.

I’m glad our rookies and retreads got a sample of that. There is no way this whole season will be this fun.

I do like what they are doing in Memphis, but they are light a gun for their conference.

Nice F***ing Win!
Title: The Mudiay Breakway Slam+1 On The Trey Burke Steal
Post by: chipstern on November 25, 2018, 09:00:41 PM
A John Starks Moment

I Am So Proud Of Emmanuel Mudiay

I Am SO HAPPY FOR EMMANUEL MUDIAY

"We're going to fix him..."

Give it up for David MOTHERFUCKING Fizdale.

Emmanuel said before the game that HE WANTED A WIN FOR COACH, that this was a special mission for him to his coach. 

WHAT THE FUCK DID I JUST WATCH?

Mirasja, it may be safe to come home.
Title: Re: IT’S OFFICIAL
Post by: lesterluv on November 25, 2018, 09:31:54 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on November 25, 2018, 08:30:11 PM

I love this team. Tanking is overrated when winning is so much fun.


 ;)


* the Burke steal...Kanter all game long
Title: Re: IT’S OFFICIAL
Post by: carlos123 on November 25, 2018, 10:58:03 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on November 25, 2018, 09:31:54 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on November 25, 2018, 08:30:11 PM

I love this team. Tanking is overrated when winning is so much fun.


 ;)


* the Burke steal...Kanter all game long

Enes is a beast. I’ve loved him since he became a Knick. Hope we keep him long term.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 26, 2018, 02:37:29 AM
Kanter really dominated.
Played 41 mins.
I was hoping to see him get 30 boards.
MEMf a perfect team for him to play against, as they play and stay Big.
But they couldn't match Enes' power.

Jackson was I impressive.  Imagine if he ups his motor or touches the ball.

I was surprised GRiz rarely took the ball to the rim.  On penetration they much preferred to kick out.  Knix are foul prone -- Kant, Vonleh, Mithc; Franc, Mud -- yet MEM stayed with a perimeter game.  30 3's; 19 FT's.  Thought they did NYK a favor.

Knix displayed a swarming defense that was effective.  Griz took a long time to get into their sets and their PnR offense was perfunctory and uninspired (looked like going through the motions).  Knix had more energy, more fight.

I thought they were smart to have Temple stick all over Tim and make other Knix beat them.  Kanter stepped up and wrecked that.   I always wonder why teams don't play ball denial and keep their bets defender glued to the other team's best scorer.  Try to make it a 4-on-4 game.
Instead the guy defending the best shooter usually sags off in help defense allowing the best shooter easy passes and open looks.

Odd development, that the Knix are suddenly Road Warriors.  And that our starting unit played well. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 26, 2018, 02:54:27 AM
With this starting unit every player on the other squad is going to have to work their ass off. On a one-on-one basis the opponent can expect to get run around (Mario & Timmy), knocked around (Enes & Noah), or both (Mud). This cause wear and tear, leading to gassed bell cows and coaches having to make uncomfortable decisions in the 4th quarter. Burke, Trier, Frank, and Mitch also force hard work on one or both ends. Our frontcourt rooks have to find adequate defensive fundamentals to stay on the floor long enough to even look for a groove, but we have just enough to keep after it on nights it just isn’t going to happen. If they keep getting regular opportunities, sooner or later one or both will start making more out of them.

I feel like the Pistons are in some ways like a stronger version of the Pels. It will be interesting to see how we hold up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 26, 2018, 08:17:01 AM
Quote from: PrezIke on November 25, 2018, 08:52:56 PM
Missed the game, but Mudiay really had one of the most striking turn arounds I can recall of a player over the last few games. Maybe Lin is the only one that stands out more, as it was also over a longer stretch.

No one with any semblance of sanity expected him to contribute much this season and I feel like a week or so ago was expected to be a likely candidate to be cut so Trier can stay on the roster.



Doubling down on idiocy
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 26, 2018, 09:09:16 AM
At least DET has a .500 Road record; NOPe just 2-9.

Home dominance:
In the West all but two teams have a winning home record.
(Utah Somehow 2-5 at Home 7-6 on the Road; PHX just bad).
Only 4 West teams have winning Road records -- and all just one loss away from .500

Mavs and Wolves a combined 2-15 on the Road.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 26, 2018, 09:33:08 AM
Quote
Willie Naulls, Knicks All-Star and Celtics Champion, Dies at 84

Willie Naulls, a four-time All-Star forward with the Knicks, a member of three consecutive N.B.A. championship teams with the Boston Celtics and one of pro basketball’s early black stars.

A fine outside shooter and a rugged rebounder at 6 feet 6 inches and 225 pounds or so, Naulls was an All-American at U.C.L.A. in 1955, his senior season, playing for the future Hall of Fame coach John Wooden.

He was a second-round draft pick of the St. Louis Hawks but was distraught over the city’s racial climate, his family having moved from Dallas to Southern California to escape segregation.

“To go to St. Louis and its segregated hotels, restaurants, cabs, living districts and attitude was a cultural shock,” Naulls once told the Knicks’ Hardwood Classic website. “As a 21-year-old man, I had rarely experienced that since I was 8 years old.”

But the Hawks traded Naulls to the Knicks in December 1956 after he played in 19 games for them, and he spent all or parts of seven seasons in New York. He teamed with guard Richie Guerin and forward Kenny Sears as outstanding players on lackluster teams.

When Naulls played in his first All-Star Game, in January 1958, he joined Bill Russell and Maurice Stokes as the only black players on the court.

He became the Knicks’ captain in the early 1960s, the first black athlete to hold such a post for any team in a major American sport, according to the Knicks.

Naulls once held two Knicks scoring records. He set a single-season mark in 1960-61 with 1,846 points, an average of 23.4 a game, and another record when he scored at least 30 points in seven consecutive games.

During that streak, his tally of 31 points against the Philadelphia Warriors on March 2, 1962, went essentially unnoticed. On the same court in Hershey, Pa., Wilt Chamberlain had astonished the basketball world with a 100-point game. That night, putting the trouncing aside, Naulls and a few other Knicks drove back to New York with Chamberlain, who was living there while owning a Harlem nightclub.

Naulls shed the burden of playing for losing teams when he joined the Celtics in 1963 after a brief stint with the San Francisco Warriors. He played on Boston teams that won N.B.A. championships in 1964, 1965 and 1966.

Naulls was a basketball star at San Pedro High School before Wooden recruited him. He averaged more than 15 points and 11 rebounds per game in his three seasons at U.C.L.A. but he battled weight problems, bringing him the unwanted nickname Willie the Whale.

His biggest game may have come in December 1954 when his Bruins earned a 47-40 victory over the University of San Francisco, which was led by Russell and K.C. Jones, his future Celtics teammates. It was the only defeat that season for the Dons, who would win the first of two consecutive N.C.A.A. tournament championships.

After all those poor seasons with the Knicks and briefly with the Warriors, Naulls considered retiring. But he changed his mind after receiving a phone call from Russell urging him to become a Celtic.

Red Auerbach, the Celtics’ coach, who oversaw the franchise’s personnel moves, obtained him from the Warriors for cash and a future draft pick.

Naulls was unaccustomed to Auerbach’s grueling preseason drills preparing his team for its fast-break offense, and he fainted during his first workout. But he grew to like playing in an up-tempo style he had not experienced since his U.C.L.A. years.

Naulls was part of the N.B.A.’s first all-black starting lineup, along with Russell at center, K.C. and Sam Jones at the guards and Satch Sanders at forward for a December 1964 game against the Hawks in St. Louis.

Pretty nice career.
An all-star 4 out of 5 seasons for NY in his early/mid-20's.
Then won 3 titles as a Celt role player to close out a 10 year career.
Retired at 31.

In 3 consecutive all-star years he was a 20/10 guy, averaging around 23 & 13.
Before my time. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 26, 2018, 10:27:57 AM
I think Knickerbocker retiring aNaulls' #6 would be a proper move. Thanks for the bio.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 26, 2018, 11:59:44 AM
That was from the NYT.
I cut some out.
I should've provided the link.

It's always good to remember that the Knix have a history pre-dating the championship.  Naulls, Guerin, Sweetwater Clifton, et al.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 26, 2018, 02:47:20 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 26, 2018, 11:59:44 AM
That was from the NYT.
I cut some out.
I should've provided the link.

It's always good to remember that the Knix have a history pre-dating the championship.  Naulls, Guerin, Sweetwater Clifton, et al.

Dick McGuire, the quintessential point guard. 

They were in the championship hunt a few years in a row during McGuire's ascendancy, however they had the misfortune to keep running astern of the MINNEAPOLIS LAKERS and that George Mikan fellow, for which they had no answer. 
Title: The Continuing Saga Of Trader Vic
Post by: chipstern on November 26, 2018, 03:40:29 PM
That Kanter-Mudiay for Bradley Beal Deal looking like found money.

Perhaps if we toss in our 2019 #1 we can get the Bullets to bite. 

Too bad I'm too stupid to look a gift horse in the mouth. 
Title: Re: The Continuing Saga Of Trader Vic
Post by: Kam on November 26, 2018, 03:54:30 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 26, 2018, 03:40:29 PM
That Kanter-Mudiay for Bradley Beal Deal looking like found money.

Perhaps if we toss in our 2019 #1 we can get the Bullets to bite. 

Too bad I'm too stupid to look a gift horse in the mouth.

It's important to know ones limitations.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 26, 2018, 04:03:42 PM
Beal in that deal becomes a free agent in hand.

If you are under the assumption that Mudiay and Kanter are to be renounced.

(In which case we could instead try to deal them for picks, just to give the third alternative)
Title: Re: The Continuing Saga Of Trader Vic
Post by: chipstern on November 26, 2018, 04:09:44 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 26, 2018, 03:54:30 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 26, 2018, 03:40:29 PM
That Kanter-Mudiay for Bradley Beal Deal looking like found money.

Perhaps if we toss in our 2019 #1 we can get the Bullets to bite. 

Too bad I'm too stupid to look a gift horse in the mouth.

It's important to know ones limitations.

Just add water and I make my own gravy. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 26, 2018, 04:14:29 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on November 26, 2018, 04:03:42 PM
Beal in that deal becomes a free agent in hand.

If you are under the assumption that Mudiay and Kanter are to be renounced.

(In which case we could instead try to deal them for picks, just to give the third alternative)

Kanter
Mudiay
Robinson

Just to beat a dead horse...our haul for Carmelo. 

Seems to me, innocent that I am, Perry and Fizz are in no hurry to renounce any of them. 

Yes, yes, I know, all we want for XMAS is Kevin Durant under the tree. 

Reason to hope, but still, a long...Long...LONG SHOT...they have a dynasty in GS, and can offer him a fifth year at 40 million per.

What's not to like? 

Draymond Green?

Chuckle...

200 Million Smackers Is A Considerable Amount Of Salve To Soothe Wounded Feelings. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 26, 2018, 04:20:32 PM
The more remote a possibility you think getting a KD is, the more you should be creating ways to get the next-best guy (Philly just did it with Jimmy Butler) without relying on the limited free agent market.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 26, 2018, 04:23:41 PM
Kanter/Mudiay's salary are what we have to rid ourselves of (and waive Lance) to even have a shot at KD giving us a sniff.

If we actually use the Kanter Mudiay Lance money to re-sign Kanter and Mudiay to anything more than a one year deal with team option then it will be a

Failure on Perry and company.
Title: No kidding
Post by: carlos123 on November 26, 2018, 04:39:54 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 26, 2018, 04:23:41 PM
Kanter/Mudiay's salary are what we have to rid ourselves of (and waive Lance) to even have a shot at KD giving us a sniff.

If we actually use the Kanter Mudiay Lance money to re-sign Kanter and Mudiay to anything more than a one year deal with team option then it will be a

Failure on Perry and company.

The Kamster is a Jokester.

And KD is an Oakland warrior, and good for him.

Speaking of which, how about Courtney, Lance and Baker for Beal?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 26, 2018, 04:43:12 PM
KD lands in the East, keeping us far from the Finals during KP.'s tenure.
Title: No Kidding #2
Post by: carlos123 on November 26, 2018, 05:14:15 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on November 26, 2018, 04:43:12 PM
KD lands in the East, keeping us far from the Finals during KP.'s tenure.

Right, they're both 30 yo.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 26, 2018, 05:37:26 PM
Attaboy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 26, 2018, 05:38:28 PM
So no one is heading to Mt. Zion any more?

I browse the early draft chatter (there’s a lanky French kid who plays positionless basketball... )
And I touch base on team and player dynamics, but mostly I’m enjoying this season.

All our vets, except Courtney who is just perfect, we’re headed to washout and within the last couple of years or even right now have had come to Jesus moments about their bodies, games and careers. Kanter, Vonleh, Mario, Tim, Mud, Burke, and its reasonable to include KP.

Fizz has them on a program to be fit enough to play sound defense against all comers for all their minutes while still having energy to attack early and late. This is so obviously a good idea that everyone is on board.

With the rookies, their defensive assignments are like having a manual car parked facing up a steep incline. If you want to go for a run, you must demonstrate the ability to get the car out of the spot. Of our three rookies, the undrafted one is already tearing up the road. The task for Mitch and Knox is difficult but not impossible, handle certain defensive assignments that make them worth playing while they figure out and get woven into offensive sets. Mitch didn’t score against Memphis, but provided Kanter his few minutes rest, did a little twin towers making us harder to score on and commanded boxouts. Not all of what you want to see but enough of what we very much needed from him to win. Mitch will work out the balance between challenging everything and preserving his threat, both strategically and tactically.

Knox presented a dilemma, get his footwork up to speed to cover quicker and craftier players, or get his judo up to speed to cover stronger guys. Up until the last two games I’d say it all needed and was all getting work. The last two Fizz has tested the judo. I’d like to see Knox pass the test. Randle and then Green were quickly too much for him. Obviously Blake is out of his depth, so see what happens with Stanley Johnson?

Title: Is It Just Me...
Post by: chipstern on November 26, 2018, 06:06:11 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 26, 2018, 04:20:32 PM
The more remote a possibility you think getting a KD is, the more you should be creating ways to get the next-best guy (Philly just did it with Jimmy Butler) without relying on the limited free agent market.

Next best?

Kawhi?

You see him coming to NY before the Raptors or Clippers? 

Kyrie?

Leaving the Celtics?  I know they are struggling now, and looking to reboot on some level, but...

Klay?

Leave the Warriors?  Chuckle. 

Jimmy Butler?

Seems to have found a nice soft landing place in Philly.

Kemba Walker?

Biz will mock me, but he is a fixture in Charlotte. 

La Marcus Aldridge?

We've got this Porzingis fellow playing PF, and due a max contract. 

Tobias Harris?

Love him.  But he would appear to be a fixture on the Clippers.  Gave up Blake Griffin to get him.

Who else in the land of Player Options? 

Khris Middleton.  But they are surely building something enduring in Milwaukee. 

DeMarcus?  DeAndre?

DeNOWAY. 

Ricky Rubio.  Nikola Mirotic.  Eric Bledsoe. 

Is It Just Me...

Or might the CUPBOARD BE BARE?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 26, 2018, 06:12:19 PM
Bledsoe playing at a very high level.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 26, 2018, 06:14:58 PM
Mar Morris
Dinwiddie
Lamb
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 26, 2018, 06:17:37 PM
Hood
Matthews
Barrea
I Thomas
R Jackson
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 26, 2018, 06:19:31 PM
Looney
Th Young
Collison
Joseph
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 26, 2018, 06:20:36 PM
Marjanovic
Caldwell Pope
Rondo
Title: Free Agents
Post by: chipstern on November 26, 2018, 07:00:24 PM
Not exactly a garden of Earthly Delights. 

Which is why I saw little need to list them.  But thanks for filling out the canvas. 

Do you see Bledsoe as demonstrably better than the PGs we have on board now?

And worthy of a mega-contract? 

Will be 29 in a couple of weeks.  Seems to have found a nice match in Milwaukee.  A talented player, in a Trey Burke frame. 

I like Dinwiddie.  Nice size and game.  Think he remains with the Nets. 

As for the rest?

Matthews?  Rondo?  Barrea? 

Kind of long in the tooth.  Dallas desperately looking to dump Matthews contract.  Rondo?  That ship has sailed. 

Caldwell-Pope? 

Better than Trier, let alone Timmy? 

Reggie Jackson?

I'd rather have Mudiay and Burke. 

Again, cap space is good for facilitating trades as a third team in, and getting draft picks for one's troubles. 

I think many Knicks fans love the IDEA of free agency. 

The reality is not that sexy. 

I think Durant is a mirage.  A very tempting mirage, but not a very realistic one. 

Of course, we keep our options open...still...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 26, 2018, 08:16:56 PM
Gibson
Vucevic
Redick
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 26, 2018, 08:17:57 PM
Ariza
Aminu
Gay
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 26, 2018, 08:19:25 PM
D Green
Kieff Morris
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 26, 2018, 08:21:52 PM
Lets reunite the Morrises.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 26, 2018, 08:22:53 PM
Of course none of the restricted free agents or team option guys made my list.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 26, 2018, 09:02:05 PM
So your question is would I take Bledsoe?  Of course.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on November 26, 2018, 09:14:21 PM
R.I.P.

Willie

loved watching him play.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 26, 2018, 09:24:52 PM
WIZ look pretty good tonight
Title: Re: Is It Just Me...
Post by: Kam on November 26, 2018, 09:45:56 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 26, 2018, 06:06:11 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 26, 2018, 04:20:32 PM
The more remote a possibility you think getting a KD is, the more you should be creating ways to get the next-best guy (Philly just did it with Jimmy Butler) without relying on the limited free agent market.

Next best?


Or might the CUPBOARD BE BARE?

Hence BRADLEY F BEAL
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 26, 2018, 09:48:47 PM
21-8-4 for Jeremy Lamb
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Hamilton Samuels on November 26, 2018, 10:05:08 PM
The greatest basketball player of all time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBUOHVIZPco (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBUOHVIZPco)
Title: Re: Is It Just Me...
Post by: chipstern on November 26, 2018, 11:01:52 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 26, 2018, 09:45:56 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 26, 2018, 06:06:11 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 26, 2018, 04:20:32 PM
The more remote a possibility you think getting a KD is, the more you should be creating ways to get the next-best guy (Philly just did it with Jimmy Butler) without relying on the limited free agent market.

Next best?


Or might the CUPBOARD BE BARE?

Hence BRADLEY F BEAL

Fuck Bradley Beal
Title: Re: Is It Just Me...
Post by: Kam on November 26, 2018, 11:18:32 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 26, 2018, 11:01:52 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 26, 2018, 09:45:56 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 26, 2018, 06:06:11 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 26, 2018, 04:20:32 PM
The more remote a possibility you think getting a KD is, the more you should be creating ways to get the next-best guy (Philly just did it with Jimmy Butler) without relying on the limited free agent market.

Next best?


Or might the CUPBOARD BE BARE?

Hence BRADLEY F BEAL

Fuck Bradley Beal

Go for a walk.
Title: Trade Proposal
Post by: Kam on November 26, 2018, 11:59:12 PM
On December 15th we should trade CLee to DET (ranked 26th in team 3pt shooting) for Ish Smith (6mil expiring contract) and Glen Robinson III (4.3 mil team option)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on November 27, 2018, 12:20:17 AM
That's a pretty good deal fro us. I'd try keep rather than waive GR3 this year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 27, 2018, 12:48:32 AM
Best I’ve heard or thought of so far. Does Detroit want to do that? Ish is a pretty big part of what they do and not so easy to replace, unless they are capped so as not to be able to bid for their own free agents. In that case, can they afford to pay Lee?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 27, 2018, 01:36:06 AM
Detroit may ask for more.  Maybe a Kornet as a sweetener?  Maybe a 2nd rd pick.  Hopefully not Dot.
Title: Pistons Capped Out
Post by: Kam on November 27, 2018, 01:53:47 AM
Their payroll for next year is already 108 mil.
Title: Re: Is It Just Me...
Post by: Kam on November 27, 2018, 02:04:52 AM
Quote from: chipstern on November 26, 2018, 11:01:52 PM

 Fuck Bradley Beal


12-18 FG 4-8 3PT  4-5 FT  32 PTS 4 AST
Title: Re: Is It Just Me...
Post by: facilitatorn on November 27, 2018, 02:08:03 AM
Quote from: Kam on November 27, 2018, 02:04:52 AM
Quote from: chipstern on November 26, 2018, 11:01:52 PM

 Fuck Bradley Beal


12-18 FG 4-8 3PT  4-5 FT  32 PTS 4 AST

And some pretty good D.

Lavine is still more impressive to me among the smaller heavily paid SGs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 27, 2018, 03:50:52 AM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on November 26, 2018, 09:48:47 PM
21-8-4 for Jeremy Lamb

Lamb was really good last year, especially the first half of the season while someone (Batum?) was injured and Lamb started.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on November 27, 2018, 06:26:22 AM
CLee for a bag of balls. Sweet trade! He is the oldest and 17th best player on the roster. Last remnant of the PJ extend the career nightmare.
Title: Re: Is It Just Me...
Post by: chipstern on November 27, 2018, 10:59:59 AM
Quote from: Kam on November 27, 2018, 02:04:52 AM
Quote from: chipstern on November 26, 2018, 11:01:52 PM

 Fuck Bradley Beal


12-18 FG 4-8 3PT  4-5 FT  32 PTS 4 AST

Yeah?

So?

Proving?

That he is a gifted player?

No arguments there. 

Last time I checked, Timmy Hardaway was our starting SG. Emmanuel Mudiay our starting PG, Enes Kanter our starting Center, and Scott Perry our GM. 

And Kam Sandwich?

A Purveyor Of Dreams. 

(https://littleblacksubs.files.wordpress.com/2017/01/images-1.jpg?w=736)

God Bless & Bon Voyage
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 27, 2018, 11:57:02 AM
You never want to make any moves shaman.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 27, 2018, 12:23:11 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 27, 2018, 11:57:02 AM
You never want to make any moves shaman.

But then, I would appear have very little influence over Scott & Steve. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 27, 2018, 12:41:42 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 27, 2018, 12:23:11 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 27, 2018, 11:57:02 AM
You never want to make any moves shaman.

But then, I would appear have very little influence over Scott & Steve.

With the Wizards on the verge of holding a fire sale Scott $ Steve are in a position to decide if we want to use next summer's cap space now.  I submit Bradley Beal is worth the squeeze.  That is all.
Title: The Intersection of Fantasy & Reality
Post by: chipstern on November 27, 2018, 12:43:30 PM
You want to contemplate possible deals? 

Fair enough. 

Berman in the POST reports that teams have inquired as to Damyean Dotson's availability. 

I really, really like DD.  Good body at 6'6".  Plays with fire and defensive commitment.  Has a good three point stroke. 

Seems to have fallen out of the rotation again. 

As per Berman's conspiracy theories, his conjecture is that DD represents a last gasp of the Phil Jackson/Clarence Gaines Brain Trust. 

I think that might be something of a stretch. 

Still...

What appears to have happened is that in terms of the starting lineup, where during Knox's absence, DD was getting starts and serious minutes at SF.

Hezonja has taken those minutes, and Knox coming in behind him, as Vonleh has solidified his stature at PF in tandem with Kanter at center. 

As for SG, Timmy is presently a lock, until details of the Beal Trade are finalized, with Mudiay emerging as the starting PG with Burke in rotation behind him. 

As such, when, as is often the case, Fizz goes three-guards, French Frank draws first blood at the 3-spot, and Trier at the 2-spot. 

What Allonzo appears to have going for him in comparison to DD, is his ability to bring the ball up and to create his own shot off the dribble. 

Presently out of the rotation? 

Dotson

Baker

Lee

Clearly, Lee is going to see some daylight at the 2 & 3, both for his veteran leadership, his steadying influence, his three point and FT prowess, and as a showcase for possible trades. 

How will this play out? 

Hint.

We are not getting Fultz.  We are not getting Beal. 

Expiring contracts and/or draft picks would seem more plausible. 

One, two or all three of our excess wings could be going, going, gone...

I believe the Knicks "Brain Trust", if we may be so bold, would like to find some minutes on the big roster for Kornet and to give Trier a big boy contract. 

Meanwhile, John Jenkins has been putting up Burke-like numbers for Westchester. 

"Boss, the plane, the plane..." 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 27, 2018, 12:48:43 PM
The takeaway here is we have assets to move.  Guys who are not in our rotation.  Guys who are.  Guys with ending deals.

We can be in the trade game if we so desire.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 27, 2018, 12:54:32 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 27, 2018, 12:41:42 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 27, 2018, 12:23:11 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 27, 2018, 11:57:02 AM
You never want to make any moves shaman.

But then, I would appear have very little influence over Scott & Steve.

With the Wizards on the verge of holding a fire sale Scott $ Steve are in a position to decide if we want to use next summer's cap space now.  I submit Bradley Beal is worth the squeeze.  That is all.

See my last post. 

We have a glut of wings. 

Beal is no doubt a genuine talent. 

However...

A) We have a log jam of wings at the 2 & 3

B) We are just starting to get some chemistry going

C) I believe your call, or was it Biz's, was Kanter and Mudiay for Beal

D) This would presuppose us going forward with NO CENTER (loves me some Mitchell, but he ain't ready), and that Beal is our point of the future in a back court with Timmy

That's all...

I apologize for being such a damp dish rag vis a vis trades conjecture...

But I am kind of enjoying the baby steps we have been making, and the palpable improvements we are witnessing on such flawed piece as Enes & Emmanuel. 

This all being chin music in any event, me never wanting to make any moves? 

Mmmmm...more like wanting to commit to building chemistry. 

Be that as it may, you and I are both captive to the machinations of Scott Perry moving forward, such as they are. 

But no, even in the pure realm of pure fantasy, I am not a fan of making moves for the sake of making moves. 

Anyway, vis a vis the machinations of Kam-Facil-Biz-Nagel, I shall attempt to recuse myself from such discussions, given my wet noodle status. 

Let the trading begin...anew. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 27, 2018, 12:57:52 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 27, 2018, 12:54:32 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 27, 2018, 12:41:42 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 27, 2018, 12:23:11 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 27, 2018, 11:57:02 AM
You never want to make any moves shaman.

But then, I would appear have very little influence over Scott & Steve.

With the Wizards on the verge of holding a fire sale Scott $ Steve are in a position to decide if we want to use next summer's cap space now.  I submit Bradley Beal is worth the squeeze.  That is all.

See my last post. 

We have a glut of wings. 

Beal is no doubt a genuine talent. 

However...

A) We have a log jam of wings at the 2 & 3

Let the trading begin...anew.

So we could  move some of those wings in our log jam for one of THE best wings in the game.

Wizards might take a Lee or a Hardaway within a larger package.

Give to get.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 27, 2018, 01:33:06 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 27, 2018, 12:57:52 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 27, 2018, 12:54:32 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 27, 2018, 12:41:42 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 27, 2018, 12:23:11 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 27, 2018, 11:57:02 AM
You never want to make any moves shaman.

But then, I would appear have very little influence over Scott & Steve.

With the Wizards on the verge of holding a fire sale Scott $ Steve are in a position to decide if we want to use next summer's cap space now.  I submit Bradley Beal is worth the squeeze.  That is all.

See my last post. 

We have a glut of wings. 

Beal is no doubt a genuine talent. 

However...

A) We have a log jam of wings at the 2 & 3

Let the trading begin...anew.

So we could  move some of those wings in our log jam for one of THE best wings in the game.

Wizards might take a Lee or a Hardaway within a larger package.

Give to get.

Perhaps. 

Would seem a kind of cruel betrayal of Hardaway, as well as he has been playing and as committed as he has been to his coach and team mates. 

Again, spoil sport that I am, I took a similar position vis a vis Butler, also an exemplary player. 

I am, alas, a bit gun shy about changing horses in mid-stream, Kam. 

Beal would likely cost us more than spare parts, least ways, I DO NOT CONSIDER Timmy, Emmanuel, Enes spare parts. 

Hard to imagine us even being in a discussion without including our #1 pick as well. 

True, I am unduly conservative in such matters, and while I am sure we are going to take plenty of lumps going forward, the last three wins were most encouraging, and validated the patience Fizz has shown in our flawed assets, even as he is playing wheel of fortune with personnel. 

I genuinely like the starting lineup that has emerged of Kanter-Vonleh-Hezonja-Hardaway-Mudiay. 

True, all still works in progress, but what did Fizz say about our pups learning how to take a punch, and still come back. 

I re-watched the second half of the Memphis game yesterday, and was very encouraged by how we came back from a deficit in the third quarter and held on against a tough ass team. 

Believe me, I get the allure of a Jimmy Butler and a Bradley Beal. 

And is there a precedent for trading our starting center and starting PG and it working out?

Well, yes actually.

Walt Bellamy & Howard Komives for Dave DeB. 

Willis moved over from PF to C. 

Clyde moved from the bench to starting PG. 

Dave became the starting PF. 

Bradley became the starting SF.  Cazzie the Sixth Man. 

I do not see a similar match chemistry wise in our present roster. 

KP still out. 

Trading Kanter leaves us with NO CENTER. 

Trading Mudiay leaves us with Beal & Hardaway as the starting back court. 

Again, ALL IN THE REALM OF FANTASY. 

But I really like how Kanter and Mudiay have stepped up in recent weeks, and not because it amps up their trade value. 

This Knicks team is not in the same developmental stage we were when we offloaded our starting Center and PG 50 years ago. 

Oh, and just to draw another parallel. 

We made a trade with the Bullets not too long after that, which might give on pause. 

We traded SF Dave Stallworth and SG Mike Riordan for SG Earl Monroe. 

To my way of thinking, Clyde & Earl was a better balance than Timmy and Bradley would be. 

But, hey, what do I know. 

We also traded young Cazzie for veteran Jerry Lucas, when Willis began to break down. 

I am, you see, a little gun shy about SHINY OBJECTS.  The Carmelo Anthony Trade soured me on that concept.  Melo put up some serious numbers for us.  But the only playoff burn we got was with Jason Kidd, and he flamed out by the second round. 

I believe the play is STILL, to construct a sustainable edifice around Porzingis. 

And yes, to create cap space. 

But I still believe that patience is a virtue and rarely have we exercised such restraint in the past. 

I am not frustrated by our conservative bent at the moment, but encouraged. 

CHEMISTRY. 

Hey, even Don Carlos is toying with the notion of signing on as a Positive Pussy. 

Who knows.  Maybe Detroit cleans our clock tonight.  Not sure we have an answer for Blake. 

We shall see. 
Title: Jungle Drums
Post by: chipstern on November 27, 2018, 01:48:40 PM
Smoke signals from the West floating the idea of Brandon Ingram in some package for Beal. 

Even packaging Ingram and Pope, numbers simply don't work. 

This, by the way, is where salary cap space comes in handy. 

A third team, facilitating such a deal, could perhaps garner a #1 pick for their troubles. 
Title: PS
Post by: chipstern on November 27, 2018, 02:38:50 PM
Personally, I don't think the Wizards are having a fire sale. 

Butler was pushing for a trade. 

Beal is not. 

They had a rough start. 

Worth remembering that we are all still in NOVEMBER. 

One Quarter of the season gone. 

Knicks are 7-14. 

And actually within hailing distance of the 8th playoff spot. 

Wizards are 8-12. 

Hardly the end of the world. 

Beat Houston last night. 

Rockets are 9-10.  Are they having a fire sale? 

Celtics are 11-10.  WTF?

Meanwhile, Dwayne Casey's Pistons are 10-7. 

Be interesting to see which Knicks team shows up tonight. 

And tomorrow against the Sixers.  YIKES. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 27, 2018, 02:50:53 PM
We may never lose another game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 27, 2018, 02:57:52 PM
Knix could offer Tim and Mud for Beal.
Would save Wiz money, give them a replacement SG and a backup PG, which they need.

If Wiz liked Tim and were interested, they'd counter with expanding the deal to include a Kanter for Mahinimi swap.  That's an ending deal for a solid offensive player for another $15M year of Mahinmi, who is kind of a stiff.  I guess it covers Chip's No Center worries (sort of).

- WASH saves some good money ($15M) next year, replaces Beal's offense while saving another $8M, improves their bench significantly, hopes the Wall/Beal non-chemistry was the root of their lameness,  while getting a free look at Mud and Kant.

- Knix gain an all-star level SG, upgrading from Tim to Beal, a two-way player and more experienced offender.  Knix cash in Mud and reduce their PG rotation to Franc and Burke.  Taking on the Mahinmi extra year is the price of doing business (and not having to kick in a 1st rounder).  Does add another C to the roster so both he and Mitch can foul everyone in sight.  Mahinmi would be our newest reclamation project.  Basically cashing in the ending deals and play of Mud and Kant to upgrade at SG.

Tricky.  I'd nervously do it.  Got to give to get.
KZ & Beal are 2-way players who can shoot from distance and do a lot besides.   2 all-star level starters for the long-term. 
Menawhile: Burke/Beal for O; Franc/Beal for D.

Knix get the best player in the deal.  Take on salary to do it.
Knix still need to gin up a genuine starting PG, but IND is doing all right the past two years with Collison; ORL this year with Augustine.  Burke/Franc is all right for another year or so until we can seriously upgrade at PG.

Knix:
Burke - Beal - Knox - Vonleh - Mitch
Franc - Trier - Zonja/Dot - (KZ) - Mahinmi

Soon to be:
Burke - Beal - Knox - Vonleh - KZ
Franc - Trier - Datsun - (Zonja) - Mitch

I'd rather grow with that then what we currently have.
Be on the lookout for a starting PG and a solid F.
We'd have a high draft pick coming.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 27, 2018, 03:03:26 PM
Wiz have the highest payroll and just aren't a contender.
The Wall-Beal-Porter core hasn't cut it.
They've underperformed for years now.

Doesn't help that Ernie G cannot construct a bench.
But easier to trade players than fire yourself.

Last off-season they jettisoned Gortat. 
Wiz played much better as a team when Wall was out last year and Gortat verbalized that getting on Wall's bad side.

WAS needs to move Wall or Porter or Beal.
One of them is gone by trade deadline if WIZ can find a decent deal.

Wall has an insane contract set to kick in and it's hard to replace a starting PG.  (Lonzo/Ingram?).  Porter seriously overpaid for what he provides.  Beal is moveable and desirable.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 27, 2018, 03:08:24 PM
BTW, on my NYK-WaWiz trade proposal.
If you don't want to do the Mahinmi-Kanter swapola, Knix could counter with this year's 1st rounder (on the theory that there's not a PG to draft Top 8 and we have already a good deal of yute) and maybe one of Dot/Trier.

But really WASH needs the money savings on any WallBealPorter deal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 27, 2018, 03:26:09 PM
I'll do Bos trade.  It's a no-brainer for me.  Unless you can guarantee KD will come.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 27, 2018, 03:31:30 PM
Upgrading from Tim to Beal alone is worth playing with Luke Kornet at C for the rest of the year.  But sure, if it saves us our picks i'll take on Mahinmi's deal.  In fact, his deal would have value the following trade deadline to possibly take on another high salaried player who wants out from their team or whose team is willing to deal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on November 27, 2018, 03:38:03 PM
we currently sit at #5.  you don't trade that pick.

this is a very good draft.

Dotson is a better player than Super Mario.

why is Dotson open the block instead ?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 27, 2018, 03:39:21 PM
Dotson's contract-to-actual value is much higher than Mario's.  Hence the interest from other teams. 

Nobody knockin on our door for Mario.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 27, 2018, 03:44:29 PM
If we were gonna do one of these type of things, I would rather have done it for Butler.
He's an assh^^e who likes to win. We badly need one of those. Plus he can play small forward.  I'm far less confident in Knox becoming a useful player than I am say of Frankie. We have no particular shortage of guards who can do something with the rock. I even like that Courtney Lee fellow. Quite a lot.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 27, 2018, 03:46:14 PM
And Mario is Scott Perry's little Pinocchio.  His maker wishing him to become a real boy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 27, 2018, 03:47:41 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on November 27, 2018, 03:44:29 PM
If we were gonna do one of these of type things, I would rather have done it for Butler.
He's an assh^^e who likes to win. We badly need one of those. Plus he can play small forward.  I'm far less confident in Knox becoming a useful player than I am say of Frankie. We have no particular shortage of guards who can do something with the rock. I even like that Courtney Lee fellow. Quite a lot.

You're not gonna win much with Timmy as your second best player.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 27, 2018, 03:49:23 PM
Exactly. That's why I woulda been happy to ship him out in a Butler trade.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 27, 2018, 04:08:08 PM
Or a Beal trade.

Wolves got Covington and Saric and a 2nd rounder
That's better than what we could have offered.

Datsun and Tryer largely overlap.
So one is expendable.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 27, 2018, 05:17:56 PM
None of our bigs are currently expendable.

It looks like Fizz wants to play Lance and Knox at power forward more than small forward. Mario seems to be full time small forward. Frank, Lee, and Dotson can cover small forwards. Of those Dotson and Frank can probably cover bigger ones better and provide more rebounding. Frank still needs to find his offense.

Hardaway is the starting SG. Trier is behind him. Frank, Lee, and Dotson do as well here, if not better, as they do at SF. Knox and Mario can see stretches possibly as well. I’d actually rather have Hardaway on the rest of his deal than Beal on the rest of his. This looks like a good draft to get a defensive freak with offensive potential at SF in the mid lottery, if Knox or Mario aren’t making strides in that direction by the spring. Pairing Tim with defensive SFs and Mudiay, Trier, or Frank gives solid enough perimeter D and tougher D with Dotson.

Hardaway plus Dotson at next year’s salaries is a pretty hard tandem to beat in next year’s market. I guess I thank Phil for that.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 27, 2018, 05:35:46 PM
Hardaway isn't as good as Beal is and it's no small gap.  You can save money on a cheaper tandem but you could keep Trier and trade for Beal and be better.
Title: We don't have a center
Post by: Kam on November 27, 2018, 05:45:59 PM
So we have to keep Kanter?

At what price are you paying to keep Enes next season?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 27, 2018, 06:25:08 PM
Washington has only 13 big league contracts right now, so they can absorb 2 spots.

Hardaway, Thomas, Kornet, plus Dot for Beal & Jason Smith. Kornet would have to agree. It saves them money, about 16 mil next year, bringing them under the cap at least to start and likely keeping them under the tax entirely.

We’d have

Kanter Mitch Smith
Vonleh  KP
Mario Knox Lee
Beal Trier Frank
Mudiay Burke Baker

We’d either want to promote Hicks and find two more two-ways (Jenkins and ???) or find a free range PF.

Unlikely, but it may work for both teams

Howard Mahimi Bryant
Morris Green Kornet
Porter Oubre Thomas
Hardaway Dotson Brown
Wall Satoransky Rivers
Title: Re: We DO have a center
Post by: carlos123 on November 27, 2018, 06:37:19 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 27, 2018, 05:45:59 PM
So we have to keep Kanter?

At what price are you paying to keep Enes next season?

I’d open with an offer of 10 mil a year for 5.

We DO have a center and, Chip, I’m NOT toying with the idea of becoming a POSITIVE PUSSY. I’m one, and it’s official.

And if Washington wants to trade Beal, then fine, they can have Lee and Baker or even THJ and Baker but no picks and no Enes. Maybe a second rounder if they insist.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 27, 2018, 06:45:58 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 27, 2018, 06:25:08 PM
Hardaway, Thomas, Kornet, plus Dot for Beal & Jason Smith. Kornet would have to agree. It saves them money, about 16 mil next year, bringing them under the cap at least to start and likely keeping them under the tax entirely.

That'd be a great deal for us.
Basically Tim & Dot for Beal while only having to take on Jason Smith.
Overall, it's plausible, but I think Wiz could do better.
Title: Re: We DO have a center
Post by: Kam on November 27, 2018, 07:19:22 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on November 27, 2018, 06:37:19 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 27, 2018, 05:45:59 PM
So we have to keep Kanter?

At what price are you paying to keep Enes next season?

I’d open with an offer of 10 mil a year for 5.

Way too high.  Who are we bidding against?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 27, 2018, 07:23:49 PM
I'd guess Enes gets somewhere between 4mil and 8mil on his next deal.  Maybe a one year deal with the remainder of some team's cap room.
Title: Re: We DO have a center
Post by: carlos123 on November 27, 2018, 07:59:53 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 27, 2018, 07:19:22 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on November 27, 2018, 06:37:19 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 27, 2018, 05:45:59 PM
So we have to keep Kanter?

At what price are you paying to keep Enes next season?

I’d open with an offer of 10 mil a year for 5.

Way too high.  Who are we bidding against?

The rest of the league.

10 may be too high, but 4 is way too low.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 27, 2018, 08:03:51 PM
There's a Center glut while teams are using a C less.

Stan John always looks good to me.
DET bench outbenching ours.
Title: Re: We DO have a center
Post by: Kam on November 27, 2018, 08:07:46 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on November 27, 2018, 07:59:53 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 27, 2018, 07:19:22 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on November 27, 2018, 06:37:19 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 27, 2018, 05:45:59 PM
So we have to keep Kanter?

At what price are you paying to keep Enes next season?

I’d open with an offer of 10 mil a year for 5.

Way too high.  Who are we bidding against?

The rest of the league.

10 may be too high, but 4 is way too low.

So split the difference and say Enes is gonna get 7.   

1. Do we have 7 for Enes? 
2. Say we strike out on the big names... will he wait until we exhaust all the other options?
3. Will he sign without guarantee of starting?
4. Will he want to "feel wanted" and accept a lesser offer from another team who promises more winning (see O'Quinn, Kyle)?

Nobody is targeting Enes with their FA dollars.  He might get a Mid Level deal.
Title: Trier gets Near - Triple Double
Post by: Kam on November 27, 2018, 09:32:23 PM
24 pts 10 rbs 7 ast
Title: Icarus falls
Post by: Kam on November 27, 2018, 09:36:36 PM
Mudiay shooting coming back down to earf the last two games only 9-25 from the field.

Title: Re: We don't have a center
Post by: Nagel on November 27, 2018, 09:39:45 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 27, 2018, 05:45:59 PM
So we have to keep Kanter?

At what price are you paying to keep Enes next season?

ZERO

if it means not getting a shot at Durant or Kawhi.

we do we need  to get Durant?  36 million?  gotta come from somewhere.

we are now 7-15 a solid 5th.

major disappointments lately include our recent draft picks Knox, Robinson (foul prone) and  Frank.

I'm in a knick fan believe it or not so rooting to lose changes nothing. i want a top pick.  in fact i want the highest pick possible  and meaningless wins like the last 3 do nothing for me.

at least Dotson got some burn tonight and showed what he can do.

yet I read he is on the block for a second round pick.  brilliant.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 27, 2018, 09:42:27 PM
3 Knix fouled out -- all in under 20 mins.

Knix need to get Knox going.
Involve him more.
I'd start him over Zonja.
Maybe with the starters he'd look better.
Instead of playing with 1-on-1 types, Trier* and Burke.
* Trier with 7 assists tonight and he has definitely been trying to look for teammates the past few weeks.
And it's not like Zonja is doing anything.
Title: Re: Trier gets Near - Triple Double
Post by: PrezIke on November 27, 2018, 09:56:24 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 27, 2018, 09:32:23 PM
24 pts 10 rbs 7 ast

Love this dude already, and went to the line 11 times + basically kept us in the game, but didn't take away from others either.

Sorry to add to the Frank pile on, but been higher on Trier upon my early observations since summer league, when compared to the same amount with our Frenchman.

Hilariously ironic if he ends up being our future point 1 year after masses of Knick fans go bananas with their love/hate for Frank.

Meanwhile Frank can still become our Swiss Army Knife player, but seems to have more of a way to go.

Trier seems to be getting better game to game, is more unselfish than the "Iso-Zo" label makes him sound, and can already play 2 ways more so than other exciting guards I've heard him compared to.
Title: Re: Trier gets Near - Triple Double
Post by: Kam on November 27, 2018, 09:58:04 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on November 27, 2018, 09:56:24 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 27, 2018, 09:32:23 PM
24 pts 10 rbs 7 ast

Trier seems to be getting better game to game, is more unselfish than the "Iso-Zo" label makes him sound

Wally called him "No Fear" Trier
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 27, 2018, 09:58:39 PM
I think Allonzo can play point.  You have to let him try Coach.  You've given everyone else a chance.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 27, 2018, 10:00:54 PM
Philly last played Sunday in Brooklyn, beating them on a Butler buzzer beater.
We play them at Philly tomorrow, coming off this desultory performance

Seems like you can open your app and bet on another L.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 27, 2018, 10:15:12 PM
We are a young team and Detroit is more mature. We had certain guys who were ready to hold their own in this game which kept us more or less in contact.

Gotta do something about Trier by December 8 or send him down till it’s sorted out.

He might could get benefit from the Mike Miller pg clinic for a week or two while FA’s become tradeable.

Knox and Mitch are getting weight room motivation. I’m glad that Knox got to try for a good few minutes against Blake.

Free Dot. Mario got his look. He can pick up his game from the pine.

Had calls gone the other way on Trier and Vonleh (swat v goal tend & offensive foul v putback), it would have been a down to the wire game despite extreme ugliness on our part.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 27, 2018, 10:59:10 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 27, 2018, 10:15:12 PM

Gotta do something about Trier by December 8 or send him down till it’s sorted out.

He might could get benefit from the Mike Miller pg clinic for a week or two while FA’s become tradeable.


He should go down to Westchester for a week so that at the very least we don't have to make a decision until Dec 15th when players who signed contracts in the offseason are eligible to be traded. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 28, 2018, 01:18:08 AM
More fouls from Dot and Lee should help defending prime wings, though they’re both undersized.

We need to definitely free Dot against Philly. How will our energy be on the back of a back to back?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 28, 2018, 01:30:19 AM
Only Kanter (36), THjr (31) , and Trier (31) played more than 23 minutes vs Detroit.

So the "Top Guns" (Clyde voice) may be a little winded.  But they should be young enough to handle it.

Foul trouble kept the rest of the team pretty fresh.

We could use a big game from Vonleh (19) and Burke (15).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on November 28, 2018, 07:44:03 AM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on November 26, 2018, 08:17:01 AM
Quote from: PrezIke on November 25, 2018, 08:52:56 PM
Missed the game, but Mudiay really had one of the most striking turn arounds I can recall of a player over the last few games. Maybe Lin is the only one that stands out more, as it was also over a longer stretch.

No one with any semblance of sanity expected him to contribute much this season and I feel like a week or so ago was expected to be a likely candidate to be cut so Trier can stay on the roster.




Doubling down on idiocy

Can you explain, please?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on November 28, 2018, 08:01:41 AM
BG dominated for the pistons. Dot coming out party?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 28, 2018, 09:16:03 AM
'BG'

Another one left off the top ten in the east list that was posted

Heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 28, 2018, 09:19:12 AM
Quote from: PrezIke on November 28, 2018, 07:44:03 AM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on November 26, 2018, 08:17:01 AM
Quote from: PrezIke on November 25, 2018, 08:52:56 PM
Missed the game, but Mudiay really had one of the most striking turn arounds I can recall of a player over the last few games. Maybe Lin is the only one that stands out more, as it was also over a longer stretch.

No one with any semblance of sanity expected him to contribute much this season and I feel like a week or so ago was expected to be a likely candidate to be cut so Trier can stay on the roster.

Doubling down on idiocy

Can you explain, please?

I think there was zero chance Mud was a waiver candidate and I think that's what got the impolite response.
Baker or Kornet were clearly of less importance to the team.

Otherwise, even a long-time Mud skeptic such as Bo thought Mud could contribute and improve this year.  I just think he has a ton to work on: judgment, shooting, defense, finishing -- and I don't think he's a genuine PG. But the guy has size, athleticism and flashes good passing on occasion.  Some of what he needed was merely better conditioning, more confidence and more experience.  Besides Fizz let it be known this was a development year, said he was committed to getting Mud right, and PG minutes have been up for grabs with both Burke and Franc playing well at times and struggling others.  Mud has already made some improvement in all the areas I listed.  Still much work to be done.

I just wouldn't get too up when Mud strings together a few good performances, just as I wouldn't get too down when Mud slumps.  He's young and learning and like most yute is far from exhibiting consistency.  Mud like Franc and Knox and Vonleh (and Subpar Mario) is a work in progress.  Development.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 28, 2018, 09:20:46 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 27, 2018, 08:03:51 PM
There's a Center glut while teams are using a C less.

Stan John always looks good to me.
DET bench outbenching ours.

Yep

Absolute NOTHING games from our 3 kids

It will happen...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 28, 2018, 09:29:17 AM
15 game update on Jimmer

51/47/95 shooting

38 points
6 assists
5.8 rebounds
3.5 steals
3.1 turnovers
11 wins
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 28, 2018, 11:17:13 AM
Pierre Jackson    

57.7/45.5/90.9 shooting

43.5 points
9.3 assists
6.3 rebounds
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 28, 2018, 12:17:39 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on November 28, 2018, 09:16:03 AM
'BG'

Another one left off the top ten in the east list that was posted

Heh

STFU til you post your own list cryboy
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 28, 2018, 12:58:57 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 28, 2018, 11:17:13 AM
Pierre Jackson    

57.7/45.5/90.9 shooting

43.5 points
9.3 assists
6.3 rebounds

Pierre has always been a very talented player.
Title: Re: Is It Just Me...
Post by: thebizneverloses on November 28, 2018, 01:08:50 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 27, 2018, 02:08:03 AM
Lavine is still more impressive to me among the smaller heavily paid SGs.

That's a disgusting comment, Fac. I just vomited in my mouth.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on November 28, 2018, 01:16:46 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 27, 2018, 12:41:42 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 27, 2018, 12:23:11 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 27, 2018, 11:57:02 AM
You never want to make any moves shaman.

But then, I would appear have very little influence over Scott & Steve.

With the Wizards on the verge of holding a fire sale Scott $ Steve are in a position to decide if we want to use next summer's cap space now.  I submit Bradley Beal is worth the squeeze.  That is all.

Again, the notion of Beal for two expirings is self-evidently a no-brainer. It significantly increases our chances of getting Durant, because KP/Beal plus a bevy of intriguing yutes (Mitch, Trier, Knox, Franc, Dot, Vonleh, Burke could all conceivably be retained, plus presumably our pick) is going to be a core that demands attention.

The argument that Mudiay and Kanter are currently starting is completely specious. They are nice players, but KP is next year's starting 5. Post surgery and in a league trending small, there should be no debate where his natural position is. So don't view Kanter as a starting 5, at least not ours. As for Mudiay, it would be better to keep him than not, but in this fantasy deal (which would cost us at a minimum a top-8 protected 1st as well), Mudiay is part of the price. You live with Burke or Franc or see if Dinwiddie is coming over, or maybe try to flip some guys for Rubio in a sign-and-trade. Point is, you make the move.

As for Timmy Jr, he gets traded to make room for KD. You break up a 25-win team for the likes of Durant, no matter how excited you are about your young guys.

The only problem with the deal is that it's too good to be true. But it's silly to suggest, today, it's too high a price to pay.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on November 28, 2018, 01:17:21 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 27, 2018, 09:58:39 PM
I think Allonzo can play point.  You have to let him try Coach.  You've given everyone else a chance.

He's a good shooting guard. Why mess with that?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on November 28, 2018, 01:17:47 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 27, 2018, 10:59:10 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 27, 2018, 10:15:12 PM

Gotta do something about Trier by December 8 or send him down till it’s sorted out.

He might could get benefit from the Mike Miller pg clinic for a week or two while FA’s become tradeable.


He should go down to Westchester for a week so that at the very least we don't have to make a decision until Dec 15th when players who signed contracts in the offseason are eligible to be traded.

This is a pretty good idea, actually.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 28, 2018, 01:29:20 PM
Zach Lowe with a long article on Kemba
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25391986/kemba-walker-never-saw-nba-superstar-turn-coming

Interesting about how CHA changed his shooting mechanics.

As for the team he's on:
Quote
Charlotte turned four top-nine picks into Kidd-Gilchrist, Cody Zeller, Bismack Biyombo and Frank Kaminsky. A fifth, Noah Vonleh, became Nicolas Batum

They also drafted Monk #11 when Donovan Mitchell was there at #13.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 28, 2018, 01:33:03 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on November 28, 2018, 01:17:21 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 27, 2018, 09:58:39 PM
I think Allonzo can play point.  You have to let him try Coach.  You've given everyone else a chance.

He's a good shooting guard. Why mess with that?

He's too small to guard SGs.  He has the right aptitude for the modern PG.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on November 28, 2018, 01:57:46 PM
I don't think he has the vision.

As for size - he's the exact same height and weight as Bradley Beal.

Same weight and one inch shorter than Timmy Hardaway Jr.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 28, 2018, 02:46:40 PM
Found bankshot twitter handle

https://twitter.com/isjanosnba/status/1067835315996356608 (https://twitter.com/isjanosnba/status/1067835315996356608)
Title: Jizz
Post by: chipstern on November 28, 2018, 03:00:08 PM
No

Brainer
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 28, 2018, 04:01:42 PM
Trier stat note

https://twitter.com/bball_ref/status/1067884626428026881 (https://twitter.com/bball_ref/status/1067884626428026881)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on November 28, 2018, 06:43:59 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 28, 2018, 02:46:40 PM
Found bankshot twitter handle

https://twitter.com/isjanosnba/status/1067835315996356608 (https://twitter.com/isjanosnba/status/1067835315996356608)

that guy's got 30,000 followers.

and apparently kid is one of them.

TFF



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 28, 2018, 06:51:44 PM
 Monk is 20

Looking at upward trend PER for all these guys.  Malik 10.5ish to 11.8ish second year.  Should rise steadily then hit a bigger increase one year pre age 25

As always decision will be to reup or deal him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on November 28, 2018, 07:08:31 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 28, 2018, 09:19:12 AM
Quote from: PrezIke on November 28, 2018, 07:44:03 AM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on November 26, 2018, 08:17:01 AM
Quote from: PrezIke on November 25, 2018, 08:52:56 PM
Missed the game, but Mudiay really had one of the most striking turn arounds I can recall of a player over the last few games. Maybe Lin is the only one that stands out more, as it was also over a longer stretch.

No one with any semblance of sanity expected him to contribute much this season and I feel like a week or so ago was expected to be a likely candidate to be cut so Trier can stay on the roster.

Doubling down on idiocy

Can you explain, please?

I think there was zero chance Mud was a waiver candidate and I think that's what got the impolite response.
Baker or Kornet were clearly of less importance to the team.

Otherwise, even a long-time Mud skeptic such as Bo thought Mud could contribute and improve this year.  I just think he has a ton to work on: judgment, shooting, defense, finishing -- and I don't think he's a genuine PG. But the guy has size, athleticism and flashes good passing on occasion.  Some of what he needed was merely better conditioning, more confidence and more experience.  Besides Fizz let it be known this was a development year, said he was committed to getting Mud right, and PG minutes have been up for grabs with both Burke and Franc playing well at times and struggling others.  Mud has already made some improvement in all the areas I listed.  Still much work to be done.

I just wouldn't get too up when Mud strings together a few good performances, just as I wouldn't get too down when Mud slumps.  He's young and learning and like most yute is far from exhibiting consistency.  Mud like Franc and Knox and Vonleh (and Subpar Mario) is a work in progress.  Development.

Hear and agree with what you mostly write here.

I would add that Baker would seem a likely candidate, but given what I understand is a high effort level given practice I can understand and hear why this would also be a tough call.

Reiterating my point, I do find it hard to think it would have been exactly shocking if Mudiay was the one cut if he didn't perform as he showed recently, regardless. At some point he had to show some value to warrant keeping him if Baker was the better practice player, and keeping another big in Kornet in case one gets injured, and arguably most key, this all due to Trier, who would be taking minutes Mudiay may not get.

Anyway, the point is almost moot now, as things have changed.

The bigger debates rage on now about Frank vs. Trier or Burke and Kanter's long term value from pretty much the usual perspectives as I see it.

Mine is Frank doesn't need to be given up on, is of value, but expectations should be tempered and simply because one is more enamored with the sexy but flawed, yet also improving play of Trier (especially, as I am) it does not mean I hate Frank. Yet, I also think Trier is showing signs of potentially becoming a legit scoring PG, as he has demonstrated more unselfish play.

To knock Trier as a defense of Frank is simultaneously mind boggling to me while reminding me how insanely insecure and willing to dig in no matter what (IMHO) our fans can be, and arguably especially about scrappy players that are good at defense plus young. Toney Douglass and Shump come to mind, but they were lower picks and older.

The age component is also interesting as simply because he is young doesn't mean aging will automatically translate into development of some traits. The biggest one I feel arises with Frank is his level of chuzbah on the court and whether being less aggressive can really increase. I think quite obviously he also get treated harsher also due to where he was selected in the draft, which may or may not be fair. I can see him becoming a strong utility/role player, who may have a chance to be more, but with Trier you just feel he has more of a chance to be more than that.

As for Kanter, the short answer to me is I like him, and maybe he stays, but I wouldn't be counting on that. We would have to renounce him, and also probably miss out on KD/Leonard, and take a MAJOR pay cut (see Brook Lopez)

While he may be a beast against some opposition, like a team who plays with a low pace old school bball like the Grizz, he can also be wildly exposed for his lack of athleticism and length against others, and the NBA is made up of more teams/player like this now. His offensive and rebounding skills are strong, and of course his attitude is enjoyable as a fan, but again I cannot be shocked if he is gone next season, so I'm not going to get too attached even if he wants it badly.

He's been a pleasure to have as a Knick in many ways, and could be a good role player to have around, but will he take that kind of salary? Someone else may be willing to offer him more.





Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on November 28, 2018, 07:09:56 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on November 28, 2018, 01:17:21 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 27, 2018, 09:58:39 PM
I think Allonzo can play point.  You have to let him try Coach.  You've given everyone else a chance.

He's a good shooting guard. Why mess with that?

Fair point, but I am curious to see if he could develop into more of a combo guard.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 28, 2018, 07:42:43 PM
Celtics back to top dog to win conference (+190 with Raptors)

+750 to win it all

Meanwhile for the division it is Boston +440, Toronto -220.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 28, 2018, 07:59:29 PM
Knix look bad on both ends.

No coherence on either end.

Knix 2-17 on 3's in the 1st half.
Both makes form Zonja.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 28, 2018, 08:05:19 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on November 28, 2018, 06:43:59 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 28, 2018, 02:46:40 PM
Found bankshot twitter handle

https://twitter.com/isjanosnba/status/1067835315996356608 (https://twitter.com/isjanosnba/status/1067835315996356608)

that guy's got 30,000 followers.

and apparently kid is one of them.

TFF

Nah....

I follow 445 .. but not that dude
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 28, 2018, 08:27:59 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 28, 2018, 01:30:19 AM
Only Kanter (36), THjr (31) , and Trier (31) played more than 23 minutes vs Detroit.

We could use a big game from Vonleh (19) and Burke (15).

4 pts combined halfway through the 3rd period.  SMH
Title: Chico’s Twitter interests
Post by: carlos123 on November 28, 2018, 09:10:00 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on November 28, 2018, 08:05:19 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on November 28, 2018, 06:43:59 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 28, 2018, 02:46:40 PM
Found bankshot twitter handle

https://twitter.com/isjanosnba/status/1067835315996356608 (https://twitter.com/isjanosnba/status/1067835315996356608)

that guy's got 30,000 followers.

and apparently kid is one of them.

TFF

Nah....

I follow 445 .. but not that dude

And I’m No. 2 of the 446 that Chico follows. “That dude” is No. 3.
Title: Frank
Post by: Kam on November 28, 2018, 09:12:42 PM
Time to send Frank to the G League.  He needs to learn to be a leader.  He is great defensively but he is not progressing offensively.
Title: Positive Pussies
Post by: carlos123 on November 28, 2018, 10:05:14 PM
Us positive pussies didn’t see the game.
Title: Re: Frank
Post by: lesterluv on November 28, 2018, 10:21:29 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 28, 2018, 09:12:42 PM
Time to send Frank to the G League.  He needs to learn to be a leader.  He is great defensively but he is not progressing offensively.

Who is our G-League coach? Maybe he has an offense to progress in.
Title: Re: Positive Pussies
Post by: Nagel on November 29, 2018, 12:12:30 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on November 28, 2018, 10:05:14 PM
Us positive pussies didn’t see the game.

how can you be a PP?

are you taking drugs?

bad boy.
Title: Re: Positive Pussies
Post by: carlos123 on November 29, 2018, 12:36:39 AM
Quote from: Nagel on November 29, 2018, 12:12:30 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on November 28, 2018, 10:05:14 PM
Us positive pussies didn’t see the game.

how can you be a PP?

are you taking drugs?

bad boy.

The Memphis game made me do it.

Plus the name, which you created, is very ... inspirational.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 29, 2018, 09:15:16 AM
https://basketball.realgm.com/staff/Mike-Miller/Summary/1753 (https://basketball.realgm.com/staff/Mike-Miller/Summary/1753)
Title: Positive Pussy Panic
Post by: chipstern on November 29, 2018, 11:51:47 AM
In the interests of full disclosure...

Pussy is not for everyone, positive or otherwise. 

The Knicks game against Memphis was so riveting, I texted Mirasja, whom some might recall as a Mudiay enthusiast, going back to that draft night, to suggest he watch the game replay on MSG. 

Having suggested it was safe to go back into the water, the Merciless One takes my enthusiasm to heart, and proceeds to watch a couple of game...Detroit...Philly...as the Knicks..."shit the bed." 

"Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice..."

Anyway, looking to find silver hairs among the mold, Dotson and Hezonja (three steals) gave one (well, this one anyway) something to hang on to. 

Elsewise, is it just me, or did Fizz kind of bite the bullet in the second quarter and consciously allow our second unit Pups to not only take their lumps, but to experience what a total beat down against the best in breed looks like?  Raising the bar by lowering the boom?

Philly was impressive. 

There was a play early on where Simmons took the ball into the paint, found his way blocked, feigned taking it back outside the three point arc to reboot, then turned back around and drove to the hoop for a jam.  SLICK. 

The Sixers may have struck out with Noel, Okafor and Fultz, but they sure struck paydirt with Embid and Simmons, even coming off season ending injuries. 

Speaking of Fultz, protestations to the contrary, that experiment would appear to be over. 

Even if determined healthy, why would they start him in the back court with Simmons when they can deploy Reddick, who was certainly a force last night.  Likewise, McConnell is surely a nice energizer bunny off the bench at PG.  Kind of begs the question, pre-Elton Brand, as to why so ever did they make that draft night trade? 

In any event, be interesting to see how we handle the Sixers tsunami when next they hit the Garden hardwood. 

Meanwhile, Milwaukee should provide a more than adequate test on Saturday night.  Be interesting to see how Fizz is able to "build upon" three good wins, one tough loss, and one utter asswhupping. 

The whole subtext of our bigs and puppies getting into foul trouble will surely vex us for a while. 

PS: I most definitely would like to see the Knicks bite the bullet and give Ron Burgundy his walking papers, find a home for Lee, and bring Kornet back up.  We need another serviceable big in lieu of Robinson's foul extravaganzas and on the job training.  The notion, as floated by Berman, of the Knicks looking to dispense with Dotson based on his spurious connection to Clarence Gaines, and thus, to Phuul, certainly seems specious, based on how he popped off the bench with instant offense and energy the past two losses, even after being nailed to the pine in the previous four or so games. 

 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 29, 2018, 12:27:14 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 29, 2018, 09:15:16 AM
https://basketball.realgm.com/staff/Mike-Miller/Summary/1753 (https://basketball.realgm.com/staff/Mike-Miller/Summary/1753)

I'm about ready to call him up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 29, 2018, 01:59:22 PM
It’s nice to see Wilson Chandler so well used and appreciated. Philly has a monster team.

Our penchant for not getting assists is pretty alarming. I don’t know if it’s a factor of being a young team, our personnel, or the system, but we have to find a way to turn it around.
Title: Re: Positive Pussy Panic
Post by: Kam on November 29, 2018, 02:55:20 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 29, 2018, 11:51:47 AM
In the interests of full disclosure...

The Sixers may have struck out with Noel, Okafor and Fultz, but they sure struck paydirt with Embid and Simmons, even coming off season ending injuries. 


And the buyers remorse on missing on Tatum while sending him to a strong division rival AND ceding another first round pick.

The Process wasn't pretty.
Title: Re: Positive Pussies
Post by: Nagel on November 29, 2018, 03:18:48 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on November 29, 2018, 12:36:39 AM
Quote from: Nagel on November 29, 2018, 12:12:30 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on November 28, 2018, 10:05:14 PM
Us positive pussies didn’t see the game.

how can you be a PP?

are you taking drugs?

bad boy.

The Memphis game made me do it.

Plus the name, which you created, is very ... inspirational.

then i take it back and please look at our record and take a very hard look at the stats .

we can't shoot ( LAST in FG%) 

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/team/_/stat/offense-per-game/sort/shootingEfficiency (http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/team/_/stat/offense-per-game/sort/shootingEfficiency)


(or defend (25th in the league)

that's why we are 7-16  which translates to around 24 wins.

i am pretty disappointed in our last two first round picks so far.

Frank looks like a bust offensively and it's simply way too early to make any judgment about knox but i expected much more.

basically the team sucks.  Even KP couldn't save this gang who can't shoot straight.

hardaway is now under 40%.  that's our shooing guard?  please.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 29, 2018, 03:38:13 PM
Frank might be playing through some type of shoulder issue.  Maybe he figures it doesn't hurt his defense.  But he has lost all confidence in his shot.  Fultzian levels.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 29, 2018, 03:43:00 PM
Hoopshype has the Magic showing interest in Frank.

I say steady on.

This is a year to pack beef on and drill fundamentals into Mitch, Knox, and Frank. It doesn’t matter if they see the court. It doesn’t matter if they produce. It’s nice if they show progress, but the important thing is that they can cover multiple positions at a level that helps the team on both ends next season. They are what they are and they need to get better.

I love stretches of good play and hopeful signs.

None of our guards are quite good enough to keep it up when they are the focus of the opposition. None of our bigs or wings give them much support by cutting or screening well. It may be the system or just where these players are at.

I’m interested to see what Courtney Lee brings to the dynamic.

We need at least one more playable big or there will be some games where we just can’t compete.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 29, 2018, 03:46:28 PM
Quote from: Nagel on November 29, 2018, 03:18:48 PM


i am pretty disappointed in our last two first round picks so far.

Frank looks like a bust offensively and it's simply way too early to make any judgment about knox but i expected much more.

basically the team sucks.  Even KP couldn't save this gang who can't shoot straight.

hardaway is now under 40%.  that's our shooing guard?  please.

Really? Maybe. A coach might help. Our offense is "go get some points, boys...oh, and dump it in to Enes once in awhile." Here's what Philly was doing, in contrast.

https://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=1&GameID=0021800307&GameEventID=131&Season=2018-19&title=Redick%2025%27%203PT%20Jump%20Shot%20(12%20PTS)%20(Embiid%203%20AST)&sct=plot (https://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=1&GameID=0021800307&GameEventID=131&Season=2018-19&title=Redick%2025%27%203PT%20Jump%20Shot%20(12%20PTS)%20(Embiid%203%20AST)&sct=plot)

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 29, 2018, 03:53:09 PM
Frank is young.  And has size.  Can defend multiple positions.  But for some reason he has mostly been used as an off-the-ball player not a PG.  And I believe Frank sees himself as a PG.  A G-league stint might awaken his latent confidence.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 29, 2018, 05:08:36 PM
yeah, probably a better use of his time than having him stand in the corner waiting for Burke or IsoZo to finish up....
Title: Re: Positive Pussies
Post by: PrezIke on November 29, 2018, 05:49:27 PM
Quote from: Nagel on November 29, 2018, 03:18:48 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on November 29, 2018, 12:36:39 AM
Quote from: Nagel on November 29, 2018, 12:12:30 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on November 28, 2018, 10:05:14 PM
Us positive pussies didn’t see the game.

how can you be a PP?

are you taking drugs?

bad boy.

The Memphis game made me do it.

Plus the name, which you created, is very ... inspirational.

then i take it back and please look at our record and take a very hard look at the stats .

we can't shoot ( LAST in FG%) 

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/team/_/stat/offense-per-game/sort/shootingEfficiency (http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/team/_/stat/offense-per-game/sort/shootingEfficiency)


(or defend (25th in the league)

that's why we are 7-16  which translates to around 24 wins.

i am pretty disappointed in our last two first round picks so far.

Frank looks like a bust offensively and it's simply way too early to make any judgment about knox but i expected much more.

I wish I could bring up the posts I made somewhere (here or UK) about Knox and how I felt our fans were going way too crazy over his SL performance, trying to recall the N8 and other former SL great performances and how that doesn't automatically translate into stardom.

Knox could come good, as he is one of the youngest players in the league, but too many of our fans already anointed him a starter who would make a huge contribution this year. I was wary of such expectations and sadly so far is holding true.

As for Frank, a lot of our fans also don't want to face the reality that he may just become a bust or just a mediocre rotation player that sticks around for his D.

That happens. I have had my doubts since we drafted him over the exact issues that we saw in the videos of him and what we saw last season. It's gotten worse it seems now, so that's concerning, and the pressure growing on him especially on social media, which you have to wonder may be affecting him as well.

The idea that we cannot trade or explore trades with any young players, especially those we draft, because we messed up with some others strikes me as grossly negligent and a form of overcompensating. Holding all assets does not automatically lead to gains in value.

The NBA has become the craziest league (to me) with the word "asset" thrown around by fans and journalists more than any sport because of it's economist/lawyer friendly and laymen unfriendly CBA that's led to the pool of journalists that have arisen to fame to come increasingly from such backgrounds.

Frank is an "asset" and accumulation of "young talent" is the way more teams try to improve, but at some point you also may look to flip them into something else. Actually, I think some who talk like this all of the time forget that the players/agents know this and also aren't going to always let you use them in this way.

I enjoy Knicks Film School now, but they were discussing "developing" Burke, Mudiay, etc. and then for whatever reason only offering them 1 year deals and assuming they will take them, and/or trading them so we can get KD. It sounded as if they had no thought about the interest of the player, just the Knicks fan/organization perspective and it was surprising. You don't think they already know this is the idea? Players like this are vying for long term contracts, not 1 year deals and don't want to be used, unless they are getting something out of it.

The team this year knows this is up, but also want to improve their own value and get better deals or not drop too much (Kanter).

Anyway, Frank may turn out fine, but I am a doubter about much more than a role player.

Here's to hoping I'm wrong...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 29, 2018, 08:08:19 PM
Franc's young, has had some shoulder trouble, and the team and his role are constantly in flux.  Give him time.  Coaches can work with him on his shot.  Looks to me like his 3-point shot is almost always short -- front-rimming.

Quote
Trier’s two-way G-League contract will be converted to a mainstream NBA contract but it doesn’t have to be for his $838,000 minimum. The New York Knicks never used their $3.3 million biannual exception and could use a portion of it to ink Trier.

One issue is whether the Knicks can negotiate a multi-year pact with a team option if they give him more than the minimum

I assume Baker gets waived.  Unless we can toss him in some 2-for-1 deal.  Kornet more intriguing at a weaker Knick position.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on November 29, 2018, 08:54:43 PM
Franc looks at best a defensive role player with limited offensive skills. Now 3rd on the PG list behind Burke and Mudiay. Yes a healthy KP and developed KK would help. Wait until next year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 29, 2018, 09:30:58 PM
Quote from: luee on November 29, 2018, 08:54:43 PM
Franc looks at best a defensive role player with limited offensive skills. Now 3rd on the PG list behind Burke and Mudiay.

"at best" . . . geez ... maybe for the next month or so.
All Franc needs to do is develop a solid 3-point shot and it will open up things for him and up his confidence.  His release is a bit slow, and he often comes up short.  He'll work on it.  it might take a Summer or two.  Maybe never come.  But if he can hit 35% on 3's, it'll open up his drives and then he can get more FTs (he's only missed 1 Ft this year -- 15-16).

Franc is 18-70 on 3's this year.  26%
If he made just 6 more of those 52 misses, he'd be at a decent 34%.  7 more and he's at league average 36%.
Last year shot 32%.
Take better 3's, get his legs into the shot more, add confidence, and that's all doable.  How soon we can expect it, is unclear.
Lingering shoulder issues don't help.  Shoulders heal slowly.

For this year, let's hope franc can get a few games where he's hot and hits 20 points.  He had B2B 16 and 17 point games earlier this year.
Had 17 & 16 to close out last year as well.

Franc needs to put in the work, Knix need to work with him.  Hopefully we'll see offensive improvement. Burke and Mud are up and down.  Let's wait for Franc to hit an upswing.

Both Burke and Vonleh looked terrible with their first teams.   I thought they were both marginal NBA players.   Both look like fairly useful role players now.  Still have flaws, but they've found roles and developed their strengths.   Have some patience with 20 year old Francophone.
Title: Re: Positive Pussies
Post by: carlos123 on November 29, 2018, 09:57:02 PM
Quote from: Nagel on November 29, 2018, 03:18:48 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on November 29, 2018, 12:36:39 AM
Quote from: Nagel on November 29, 2018, 12:12:30 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on November 28, 2018, 10:05:14 PM
Us positive pussies didn’t see the game.

how can you be a PP?

are you taking drugs?

bad boy.

The Memphis game made me do it.

Plus the name, which you created, is very ... inspirational.

then i take it back and please look at our record and take a very hard look at the stats .

we can't shoot ( LAST in FG%) 


Positivepussyness is blind, especially after a long time of seeing nothing but horrible bball. Then the Memphis game happens, what can I tell you?

OTOH, Positivepussynes doesn't last forever (except for Chip, that is).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 30, 2018, 02:11:28 AM
https://www.metro.us/sports/knicks-nba-trade-rumors-idea-frank-ntilikina-evan-fournier (https://www.metro.us/sports/knicks-nba-trade-rumors-idea-frank-ntilikina-evan-fournier)


Article says Lee and Frank for Fournier.  But incorrectly assumes Lee is an expiring contract.  Lee back to ORL?

Also says could be Frank for Jerian Grant and a first round pick.  Grant a Knick again?

Patience is a virtue. Sometimes.
Title: Re: Positive Pussy Panic
Post by: thebizneverloses on November 30, 2018, 08:19:16 AM
Quote from: chipstern on November 29, 2018, 11:51:47 AM
PS: I most definitely would like to see the Knicks bite the bullet and give Ron Burgundy his walking papers, find a home for Lee, and bring Kornet back up.  We need another serviceable big in lieu of Robinson's foul extravaganzas and on the job training.  The notion, as floated by Berman, of the Knicks looking to dispense with Dotson based on his spurious connection to Clarence Gaines, and thus, to Phuul, certainly seems specious, based on how he popped off the bench with instant offense and energy the past two losses, even after being nailed to the pine in the previous four or so games.

Fully agree.

ps Don't they dare trade Franc
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on November 30, 2018, 08:52:16 AM
Kam - we need an update on your Knicks player power rankings. Do you have your old copy for comparison?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 30, 2018, 10:46:29 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on November 30, 2018, 08:52:16 AM
Kam - we need an update on your Knicks player power rankings. Do you have your old copy for comparison?


As of October 30:

Hicks
Kornet
Mudiay
Baker
Lee
Hey,ZoneUp
Thomas
Kanter
Burke
Hardaway Jr.
Vonleh
Iso Zo
Dotson
Hardwood Mitch
Knox
Frank
KP
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 30, 2018, 11:11:18 AM
Knix just used to Orlando's hand-me-down wings?
Afflalo, Courtly, Fournier.

All kind of the same player.
Fairly solid, but less impact than they appear able to provide.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 30, 2018, 12:12:40 PM
I've been meaning to point out that Durant is kind of an asshole and a prima donna.  And that GS has had trouble winning without Scurry and Dray.  But KD has been playing at a pretty high level, so I'll wait until he slumps to do it.   ;)

On OKC I was always critical of Durant because he would slack on D   and make a lot of turnovers in the clutch.  But he defends since being in GS and has been less sloppy, more focused in key moments.  He's become a much more complete player, but that's surrounded by stars and in a great framework. 

I only saw the 1st half of the GS-TOR game.  Raps should have been up by more than 7 at the half after outplaying the Warriors the whole way.  Looks like a great game.
Title: Hello?
Post by: chipstern on November 30, 2018, 12:36:39 PM
Berman And The POST

Spare us. 

Why exactly would the Knicks trade Frank? 

Why would the Knicks trade Frank to the Magic?

Why would the Knicks trade Frank for Fournier, when they already have Hardaway, Dotson and Trier. 

A load of crap masquerading as news. 
Title: Tick Tock
Post by: chipstern on November 30, 2018, 01:37:40 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 30, 2018, 12:36:39 PM
Berman And The POST

Spare us. 

Why exactly would the Knicks trade Frank? 

Why would the Knicks trade Frank to the Magic?

Why would the Knicks trade Frank for Fournier, when they already have Hardaway, Dotson and Trier. 

A load of crap masquerading as news.

Knicks have until December 15th to finalize Trier and perhaps, dust off Lee, although he might have more value to a contender when the February 15th Trading Deadline rolls around. 

Hard to fathom how the Knicks have any other move to make than to jettison Ron Baker. 

Kornet is still a work in progress, but he is a seven-foot work in progress who can nail treys, block shots and give us six more fouls to play around with. 

Baker is a good kid with a lot of heart and defensive tenacity but...

Just stating the obvious

Hardaway-Dotson-Trier-Lee

Mudiay-Burke-Ntilikina

The idea of trading either Frank or DD and keeping Baker, as Mister Spock might opine, is illogical. 

PS: If we are going to be patient with Mudiay and Burke, if we are going to be patient with Hezoinja and Knox, we can be patient with Frank.  I remember when we traded away Darrell Walker, also a defense-first guard, and that did not bode well for us.  Neither did giving up on Rod Strickland for the earthly remains of Maurice Cheeks, one of the worst trades in Knicks History. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 30, 2018, 01:39:28 PM
Fournier to Knicks is in the works?

No....not athletic enough!

Heh.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 30, 2018, 02:05:31 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on November 30, 2018, 01:39:28 PM
Fournier to Knicks is in the works?

No....not athletic enough!

Heh.

Not in the works. 

In Berman's shorts.

Hold out for Jimmer, dude. 

Worth noting that Fournier is 26 and his FT shooting and 3-point percentage [29%] is down significantly, though his assists are up. 

This is BULLSHIT, folks. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 30, 2018, 02:07:13 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 30, 2018, 12:12:40 PM
I've been meaning to point out that Durant is kind of an asshole and a prima donna.  And that GS has had trouble winning without Scurry and Dray.  But KD has been playing at a pretty high level, so I'll wait until he slumps to do it.   ;)

On OKC I was always critical of Durant because he would slack on D   and make a lot of turnovers in the clutch.  But he defends since being in GS and has been less sloppy, more focused in key moments.  He's become a much more complete player, but that's surrounded by stars and in a great framework. 

I only saw the 1st half of the GS-TOR game.  Raps should have been up by more than 7 at the half after outplaying the Warriors the whole way.  Looks like a great game.

Missed a good finish

I liked the over 227.5 total. And it barely came in.  Warriors had failed to cover in 8 of 9 before last night but seem to have something figured out with sub patterns and heavy reliance on lead dog (40+ in 3 straight)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 30, 2018, 02:09:22 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 30, 2018, 02:05:31 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on November 30, 2018, 01:39:28 PM
Fournier to Knicks is in the works?

No....not athletic enough!

Heh.

Not in the works. 

In Berman's shorts.

Hold out for Jimmer, dude. 

Worth noting that Fournier is 26 and his FT shooting and 3-point percentage [29%] is down significantly, though his assists are up. 

This is BULLSHIT, folks.

Nah

You guys have me more intrigued on Jackson.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on November 30, 2018, 02:17:08 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on November 30, 2018, 01:39:28 PM
Fournier to Knicks is in the works?

No....not athletic enough!

Heh.

We would be stealing him
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on November 30, 2018, 02:23:33 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 30, 2018, 10:46:29 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on November 30, 2018, 08:52:16 AM
Kam - we need an update on your Knicks player power rankings. Do you have your old copy for comparison?


As of October 30:

Hicks
Kornet
Mudiay
Baker
Lee
Hey,ZoneUp
Thomas
Kanter
Burke
Hardaway Jr.
Vonleh
Iso Zo
Dotson
Hardwood Mitch
Knox
Frank
KP

I figured you'd re-do them! Anyhow, here's my stab at it:

Hicks
Baker
Courtly
Kornet
Subpar
Thomas
Kanter
Burke
Dotson (biggest faller)
Mudiay (biggest riser)
Vonleh
Iso Zo
Hardaway Jr.
Knox
Franc
Hardwood Mitch
KP

Knox and Franc may not have fallen far in these rankings, but neither has impressed so far this season; I'm especially underwhelmed with Knox, whose game has been rather hard on the eyes. But I'm hopeful the front office will actually be patient with both of them, at least until this summer, and hopefully beyond.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 30, 2018, 02:33:10 PM
I don't have a problem with your rankings.  THjr moved up but his play has mostly warranted it.  Frank and Knox and Mitch are super young and ranked high on potential.  Trier, Vonleh and Dotson the more consistent youth.  Burke and Kanter bringing what we thought they would. 

Mudiay had some good moments... but he is back to shooting poorly -- just 33% his last three games.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 30, 2018, 02:49:55 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on November 30, 2018, 02:17:08 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on November 30, 2018, 01:39:28 PM
Fournier to Knicks is in the works?

No....not athletic enough!

Heh.

We would be stealing him

Like we don't have enough shooting guards already. 

Pass. 
Title: Knicks Luck
Post by: Kam on November 30, 2018, 03:12:55 PM
2009 NBA Draft:

1. Blake
2. Thabeet
3. Harden

4. Tyreke
5. Rubio
6. Flynn

7. Curry
8. Hill
9. Derozan

That Top 10 (Brandon Jennings went 10) was loaded with busts and MVP candidates

Had we simply drafted Derozan we could have traded him for Kawhi

We could have Steph or Kawhi....  we got shit.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 30, 2018, 05:12:52 PM
If we’re moving Frank and Memphis has interest as reported, Frank and Baker for Green works. We have the biannual exception to get Trier on a multiyear deal.

Kanter Mitch Kornet
Vonleh Lance KP
Green Mario Knox
Hardaway Dotson Lee
Mudiay Trier Burke

Green is averaging 9pts and 7rbs and shoots .385 from 3. 6’9” 225. Just what the doctor ordered. His deal expires at the end of the year.
Title: Seeing is Believing
Post by: bodiddley on November 30, 2018, 08:02:36 PM
I don't think there's any rush in deciding on Franc's fate.
And if you move Franc, you're pretty much committing to keeping Mud.

Seems to make sense to wait and see how this year plays out:
See if Vonleh is a potential starter or, more likely, a bench F.
See if Mario is Super or Subpar.
See how Mud does the next 60 games.
See how far along Knox is/isn't by year's end.
See a full year of Trier and Datsun.
See who we draft and what position he plays.
And of course, see how's Franc's 20 year old 2nd season plays out.
And maybe the granddaddy of them all, see how all of these cats look next to NYK cornerstone KZ later in the year.

All of that info, plus the draft and FA, can tell us what to do with Franc.
He'll likely have the same value next year.  I don't think anyone is looking to add Franc to bolster a playoff run this year.

Except for Courtly, Lance & Baker, I don't think it's time to make a move.  Okay, I'd trade Zonja too.  But it's Sell Low on the lot of them. 
So even a deal for any of them might need to wait for a month or two, when they are playing again, by which time Baker is most likely toast.
Don't forget that Lance and Court are bench vets who can help a playoff hopeful.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 30, 2018, 08:13:53 PM
Trier:

He grew up in OKC and got to know Durant as a high school star.

Paywalled article, so I only read the first 3 visible paragraphs.
https://theathletic.com/685313/2018/11/30/the-knicks-passed-on-allonzo-trier-twice-and-still-landed-a-rookie-gem-but-another-big-decision-looms-and-it-could-get-tricky/

(on NYT and WaPo, you can simply download a paywalled article and you get the whole thing, but that didn't work the way this site is set up.  For those, the paywall loads separately as an overlay, while for The Athletic, it's part of the article itself until unblocked)

More Trier:
Quote
his first detailed explanation as to why Ostarine, which can produce effects similar to anabolic steroids, was in his system. He said it stemmed from a car crash prior to his sophomore season at Arizona, when he destroyed a new white Mustang.

“Both cars were totaled. We were both taken to the hospital. I wasn’t feeling good. I was given medication by the doctor, Vicodin….My body was in a lot of pain and I was given something to take, unknowingly. And it ended up being something...that was a banned substance,” Trier said.

Trier said he had no knowledge there was a banned substance in his body and is adamant he had no competitive advantage.

“Never did I do any steroids, never did I do anything intentionally or anything like that,” Trier said. “The headline kind of throws people off.”

Trier was suspended 19 games during his sophomore season, then tested positive again as a junior. In both instances, Trier won an appeal. He said the second positive test was simply the product of leftover Ostarine stored in his fat from the first ingestion.

“It was a fat-soluble drug. I ended up taking a drug test at 5 a.m. from the NCAA, randomly.  Anytime the NCAA showed up, I had to get tested,” Trier said. “I got tested all throughout the year. So I showed up, was dehydrated, first urine of the day, and it happened to show up.”

Nonetheless, the saga undoubtedly hurt Trier’s draft stock and he would’ve likely declared for the NBA a year earlier if not for the first suspension. Once a top-12 recruit out of high school and a McDonald’s All-American, Trier settled for a two-way contract with the Knicks

Interesting.  Says Trier might have gone into the draft a year earlier if not for the positive test and suspension.  And the negative taint probably kept him undrafted when he did come out.

I'm also wondering where Trier got a new Mustang as a college sophomore . . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 01, 2018, 12:00:55 AM
Conversation at the casino

Top 10 players of 21st century.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 01, 2018, 12:06:44 AM
You want to move Franc and be bold?

How about Franc & Baker for Fultz.
Money matches almost exactly.

PHI gets a young PG who can defend and handle 20 mins a night this year, as they go for the prize. 
Ending games with Franc - Butler - Simmons - Wil - Embiid
That's a killer defensive lineup.

NYK gets to Fizz Fultz.
We're in the development game.
If it pans out we'd have Fultz - Tim - Knox - KZ - Mitch as our youthful core.  Add draft pick.  Plus Trier, Vonleh, Burke, Datsun.

We don't need Fultz to be good right away.  We don't need him to shoot 3's.  A much more relaxed environment for him in NY.  Where his draft slot would be less of an issue as well.  Just another Knick reclamation project to add to the list.  Fultz is a good defender, a genuine PG, and his ceiling is much higher than Frankie goes to Philly.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 01, 2018, 12:07:21 AM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 01, 2018, 12:00:55 AM
Conversation at the casino

Top 10 players of 21st century.

Hardaway, Jimmer ... all the usual suspects ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 01, 2018, 01:28:02 AM
Frank can work the AV for Philly
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on December 01, 2018, 01:59:42 AM
Is Franc a terrible assist man at present? Varying opinions.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 01, 2018, 02:17:47 AM
Statistically he’s not as bad as Mudiay and not as good as Burke, both in terms of number of dimes and in terms of assists to turnovers.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 01, 2018, 02:22:19 AM
Heh.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 01, 2018, 02:29:36 AM
Remember or lead chucker cant quite hit .400, so a lot of good set up passes hit a shooter who goes clang and those passes go unmarked and unremembered.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on December 01, 2018, 11:38:17 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 01, 2018, 02:17:47 AM
Statistically he’s not as bad as Mudiay and not as good as Burke, both in terms of number of dimes and in terms of assists to turnovers.

Checked the stats Mud is considerably better at APG than Franc.

https://www.foxsports.com/nba/stats?season=2017&category=ASSISTS&group=1&sort=5&time=0&pos=0&team=0&qual=1&sortOrder=0&opp=0&page=1 (https://www.foxsports.com/nba/stats?season=2017&category=ASSISTS&group=1&sort=5&time=0&pos=0&team=0&qual=1&sortOrder=0&opp=0&page=1)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 01, 2018, 11:51:45 AM
That was for 2017-2018.

This year frank is getting 2.7 dimes to 1.3 TOs.

This year manny is getting 2.3 dimes to 1.5 TOs.

http://www.foxsports.com/nba/new-york-knicks-team-stats?season=2018&category=ASSISTS&group=1&time=0 (http://www.foxsports.com/nba/new-york-knicks-team-stats?season=2018&category=ASSISTS&group=1&time=0)

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on December 01, 2018, 12:34:05 PM
so they both suck in other words.

but they are only 19.  or 23 or whatever.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 01, 2018, 02:07:10 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 01, 2018, 11:51:45 AM
That was for 2017-2018.

This year frank is getting 2.7 dimes to 1.3 TOs.

This year manny is getting 2.3 dimes to 1.5 TOs.

http://www.foxsports.com/nba/new-york-knicks-team-stats?season=2018&category=ASSISTS&group=1&time=0 (http://www.foxsports.com/nba/new-york-knicks-team-stats?season=2018&category=ASSISTS&group=1&time=0)

Heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 01, 2018, 02:19:40 PM
Tough to get assists when running with Burke or Trier

Mudy's assist % IS a tick higher this year than Ntilikina.

Last year was much higher.

Both down this year playing with off guards who like to do their own creating

Would love to see some Mudiay/Frank, KNOX, Hardaway, Vonleh, Kanter minutes.  2 knock down wings.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on December 01, 2018, 02:29:38 PM
are you looking at the stats?

knock down what?

bowling pins?

the Coen brothers are writing this forum.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 01, 2018, 02:57:10 PM
A lot of #'s for a lot of guys might be a lot different if we actually had some plays and players ran together for a lot of minutes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 01, 2018, 05:34:25 PM
Quote from: Nagel on December 01, 2018, 02:29:38 PM
are you looking at the stats?

knock down what?

bowling pins?



You can't be serious.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 01, 2018, 05:38:43 PM
When Mudiay plays with Burke or Trier he often stands in the corner to start the action

Is this deferring or by design

At 7-16 I would think a new "design" might be pondered.

Pick and roll with your most athletic point guard?  OUTLANDISH!, they screamed.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 01, 2018, 05:42:11 PM
Hardaway got 2 minutes at the point first quarter

Shocking.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 01, 2018, 07:27:29 PM
I get on the computer, Knix down about 12 late 3rd.
By the time I get the game on, Knix down 2 to start the 4Q.
Knox looks terrific, then does a lot more.
Knix get down, crowd gets loud, Knix tighten it up late.
Great game.

4Q heroes:
Knox, Mud, Datsun, Vonleh, Tim

OT
Title: POSITIVE PUSSY FOREVER
Post by: carlos123 on December 01, 2018, 07:57:15 PM
Wow, what a game!

Go Knicks!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 01, 2018, 08:15:53 PM
Mud makes an awkward pass to Vonleh which gets batted away right back to Mud who makes a layup.  Thereafter Mud decides he's hot and starts canning jumpers and 3's.  I don't think Bucks minded Mud taking clutch 3's, and they defended him well, and he knocked them down.  Mud's best game as a Knick?
Franc - DNP; Burke Uno Minuto.

I've been wondering if all of our Points need Big Minutes to impact a game.  Franc seems to play better when he gets closer to 30 mins.  Mud too.  Burke seems to do better with long stretches, until he gets winded (he plays at a high tempo).
Something to think about.

Anyway, great game. 
Lopez should have knocked down 2 FT's to send it to 2OT.
And Anti-Greek got the 2nd rebound but couldn't hold the ball cleanly. Probably rushed because of the minimal time left.

I was a bit nervous about Kornet out there to rebound.  I don't like bringing in a guy cold for a key moment, especially a real young guy.  but it turned out Giannis slithered around our main boarder, Kanter.
 
Wonder why Middleton didn't play 4Q & OT.  He's kind of a Knick killer. 

Knix really looked like a team on both ends.
Really enjoyed Vonleh's grit.
And Tim willing to defer when Mud was hot and Tim was off.
Lotta up and down from Tim.
Tim's in a regularly scheduled Tim shooting slump, but doing some other things.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 01, 2018, 08:29:55 PM
Knox answered the question of if he’s the kind of guy who can play an important role in a tough close game.

Dotson Hardaway Mudiay Trier will be enough guards to go against most teams most nights.

If our staff can do for Frank what they did for Mudiay’s finishing and confidence, hold Frank. It doesn’t matter if he falls out of the rotation. Keep training and growing the kid.

Though both Vonleh and Robinson fouled out, it was key that they did it over more minutes and were able to heavily impact the game.

The occasional win is good for morale. I really enjoyed this one.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 01, 2018, 11:06:30 PM
Oh crap. We caught the Nyets.
Title: "...so they both suck in other words..."
Post by: chipstern on December 02, 2018, 03:32:40 AM
(https://www.shutterstock.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2014/10/img11.gif)

(https://www.lequzhai.com/data/out/3/463581.gif)

(https://media.giphy.com/media/ulyzw1r9xBuak/giphy.gif)

(https://i1.wp.com/media.giphy.com/media/ZziHFdI5i0eEo/giphy.gif?resize=640%2C481&ssl=1)

(https://media.giphy.com/media/hVIwZxkH4dAis/source.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on December 02, 2018, 03:51:14 AM
What happened to mud? He has taken a quantum leap this year. Shooting is up to 47% from the  mid30s. He is a completely different, much better, player from even last year. Yes there might be hope for franky. Looks as though the knix finally got it right on a kiddy training coach.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 02, 2018, 03:52:44 AM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 01, 2018, 05:34:25 PM
Quote from: Nagel on December 01, 2018, 02:29:38 PM
are you looking at the stats?

knock down what?

bowling pins?



You can't be serious.


Afraid so. 

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/wxUAAOSwdGJawekt/s-l300.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 02, 2018, 03:54:42 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 01, 2018, 08:15:53 PM
Mud makes an awkward pass to Vonleh which gets batted away right back to Mud who makes a layup.  Thereafter Mud decides he's hot and starts canning jumpers and 3's.  I don't think Bucks minded Mud taking clutch 3's, and they defended him well, and he knocked them down.  Mud's best game as a Knick?
Franc - DNP; Burke Uno Minuto.

I've been wondering if all of our Points need Big Minutes to impact a game.  Franc seems to play better when he gets closer to 30 mins.  Mud too.  Burke seems to do better with long stretches, until he gets winded (he plays at a high tempo).
Something to think about.

Anyway, great game. 
Lopez should have knocked down 2 FT's to send it to 2OT.
And Anti-Greek got the 2nd rebound but couldn't hold the ball cleanly. Probably rushed because of the minimal time left.

I was a bit nervous about Kornet out there to rebound.  I don't like bringing in a guy cold for a key moment, especially a real young guy.  but it turned out Giannis slithered around our main boarder, Kanter.
 
Wonder why Middleton didn't play 4Q & OT.  He's kind of a Knick killer. 

Knix really looked like a team on both ends.
Really enjoyed Vonleh's grit.
And Tim willing to defer when Mud was hot and Tim was off.
Lotta up and down from Tim.
Tim's in a regularly scheduled Tim shooting slump, but doing some other things.

Like 8 Assists
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on December 02, 2018, 11:26:00 AM
didn't see the game but good game for yous guys last night.

Garden musta rocked.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on December 02, 2018, 12:50:34 PM
Was a thriller. I was getting all cozy ready to rationalise a soak in a low double digit loss as some sort of moral victory, and then Mudiay happened.

How fantastic was Vonleh, btw? You won't get the whole story from the box score.

Franc being a DNP in a game where Burke couldn't play tells a lot. The coaching staff do not view him, at this point, as a point guard, preferring to run THJr and IsoZo out of position (neither looked their best while playing point; they're both good playmakers but better when the responsibility isn't setting everyone else up).

Now I'd rather see Franc than Subpar out there for those wing minutes, but Fiz isn't going to keep him nailed to the bench for long.

Still, as I said before the season, we have more players who are interesting than minutes to dole out, a conundrum that would be simpler if we were more focussed on winning than development.

Bud and Fiz were my top two choices for us last spring, btw. Great coaches both, but I think Bud is better with a more advanced team, and Fiz a nice fit with these kids.
Title: Mitchell Robinson comes up BIG when it counts
Post by: Kam on December 02, 2018, 01:26:04 PM
OT, 40 seconds left, Giannis shooting 60% for the game has the ball facing up, then backing down Mitchell in the paint, Mitch (with 5 fouls) defends him perfectly for the miss.  Next possession Erick Bledsoe, also shooting 60% for the game drives to the cup for the layup and Mitchell's intimidation causes Bledsoe to go up weak and get his shot blocked leading to the scrum fighting for the loose ball causing the jump ball preceeding Lopez's missed FTs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 02, 2018, 01:30:03 PM
Vonleh worked hard on D.
But there was one mid-4Q play where Vonleh got the ball on the wing around the 3-point line, started his drive, a defender came over and Von did a hesitation like he was going to pass or pull up to shoot, froze the defender, and then continued in for a layup.  Beautiful.  I didn't know he had such a move.

That game was the loudest I've heard The Garden in quite some time.

I think Bled fumbled the ball and that's why he got an awkward shot up that was easily blocked.

Caught a bunch of the Celts game.
Both BOS & MIN looked disjointed at times.
Haywire had a terrific game.  Canning 3's, drives, everything.
Kyrie was pretty silent.  As was Wiggins for Minny.
Smart just makes plays.

I thought Tatum was being underused.
One possession, Horford got 4 touches.  While Tatum got 1 touch on 4 possessions.  There were consecutive possessions where Tatum had Tyus Jones and then Kyrie on him and the Celts didn't get him the ball.  But then Tatum was more involved in the 4Q.  Often seems he doesn't get the ball much, so when he does he feels obligated to make something happen.  So he tends to force the issue.
Btw, Horford still looks a little chunky and a half-step slow to me.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 02, 2018, 01:42:58 PM
Why did they hide this game at 5 p.m. in the afternoon with me forgetting to set my DVR?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 02, 2018, 01:49:51 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 02, 2018, 01:30:03 PM

I think Bled fumbled the ball and that's why he got an awkward shot up that was easily blocked.


I credit the fumble to the intimidating presence of a genuine shot blocker.  I don't think he necessarily fumbles vs. a Kanter for instance.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 02, 2018, 01:53:49 PM
I dunno.
Anti-Greek fumbled the last OT ball against Kanter
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on December 02, 2018, 01:55:43 PM
I thought other than a 2-3 minute stretch in the 4th qtr, Celts played a pretty well, and was generally in control over a decent team. It was a legit 10 point game.

there was good ball movement, and a flow that has been getting better the last few games.

Gordo was terrific and played by far his best game. He's been getting better the last week or so, but while the points weren't there the boards and smart passing was there. Last night he was more willing to take his shot and was hitting.

Smart is a handful, he made one play last night, that was pure basketball porn, Played harassing D, anticipated a pass, stole the ball, made a blind over the shoulder pass while on his ass facing the other way to a breaking Tatum, who passed to KI who return ally ooped to Tatum.

Pure hoop porn.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 02, 2018, 02:02:13 PM
Both teams looked bad 1Q.
After that it was a game of runs.
Lots of 10-1 scoring stretches.
Where one team looked good and the other flat.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 02, 2018, 02:11:20 PM
There is something to be said for no dribble fast breaks. About time the Celtics started to get their act together.

With all the runs in the Knicks-Bucks game, it’s nice to see we didn’t implode and go passive.

We pass the Wiz in the standings if we beat them on Monday.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on December 02, 2018, 02:36:06 PM
in the Celts TWolves game there were a shit ton of travelling calls on the TWolves

I hadn't seen that many whistles for travelling in years

that and the TWolves living at the line, led to a choppiness in the game.

Quote
...about time the Celtics started to get their act together

Brad has a math problem, 240/too many guys.

Jaylen hurt his back a couple of games ago and has sat, so his reintegration probably as a 2nd unit guy with fewer minutes bears watching.

Whether the math problem turns into a chemistry might need a command of psychology 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 02, 2018, 03:20:17 PM
Just watched replay

Great to see Knicks mob Mudiay at the end

Not sure we can cut him, guys.  Sorry.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 02, 2018, 03:39:16 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 02, 2018, 03:20:17 PM
Just watched replay

Great to see Knicks mob Mudiay at the end

Not sure we can cut him, guys.  Sorry.

Hey, we can trade him and Kanter for Beal.

No brainer. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 02, 2018, 03:58:30 PM
The cut Mudiay ship has definitely sailed. His cap hold may wind up looking like a fortunate opportunity.

Certain guys have already struck lightning one or more times by putting up big games and, in addition, play vital roles in the functional depth of our rotation.

Two, KP and Burke, are on the shelf. Lance is also on the shelf, though his role may be reduced once he gets cleared to play.

Kanter Mitch Vonleh Knox Dotson Hardaway Mudiay are the other solid rotation guys.

Trier has been heavily in the rotation and needs a contract worked out and a roster spot created very soon.

Frank and Mario are vehicles that start but stall and are bubble useful with serious work to do.

Lee has yet to show where he’s at.

Fizz finally thinks it makes more sense to dress Kornet than Baker. This possibly could be a result of Kornet hitting the Marks set for him in his Westchester stint. With our foulathons and Kanter’s defensive limits, having some frontcourt depth behind the 3 bigs we play is good insurance compared to dressing another guard. What this means in terms of Luke getting run remains to be seen. 

Fizz may like Baker nearly as much as Horny did and management may love him as well. In that case, an injured Burke with a smaller deal and a partial guarantee in this year’s salary may be the casualty of numbers that makes room for Trier when he gets his deal.

It’s a good thing we saved our biannual exception.
Title: No WAY
Post by: chipstern on December 02, 2018, 05:15:29 PM
No WAY...

The Knicks cut Burke for Baker. 

It's only money, and Dolan's money at that. 

Ron, we hardly knew ye, and to hardly know you was to know you well...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 02, 2018, 05:37:05 PM
Mud wasn't getting cut.
Neither is Burke.

Baker (or less likely Kornet) will be jettisoned.

Just want to hold on to Baker's $4M for a little while longer as that might prove useful salary ballast in a deal moving Courtly or Lance (or whoever).  More players become trade eligible after December 15.  Including I assume Zonja. 
And Knix could swing a 2-for-1 trade with or without Baker involved.  And could always see Trier down in the G League for a week or two as Knix gauge deals, if anything seems close to happening.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 02, 2018, 05:53:51 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 02, 2018, 03:39:16 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 02, 2018, 03:20:17 PM
Just watched replay

Great to see Knicks mob Mudiay at the end

Not sure we can cut him, guys.  Sorry.

Hey, we can trade him and Kanter for Beal.

No brainer.

You can either trust Perry or not.

I like him if he deals Frank while the kid still has some perceived value.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 02, 2018, 06:23:09 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 02, 2018, 05:53:51 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 02, 2018, 03:39:16 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 02, 2018, 03:20:17 PM
Just watched replay

Great to see Knicks mob Mudiay at the end

Not sure we can cut him, guys.  Sorry.

Hey, we can trade him and Kanter for Beal.

No brainer.

You can either trust Perry or not.

I like him if he deals Frank while the kid still has some perceived value.

Not
Happening
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 03, 2018, 12:19:02 AM
You are a FOOL if you think it won't be considered.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 03, 2018, 02:40:32 AM
I hope Kiid isn’t trying to open up a roster spot for Jimmer.

When the doctors tell frank that the space in his growth plates has been tapped out, his training regimen will change as will his development. You don’t develop defense like he has without hard work. With more hard work you’ll see a 210-215 pound Frank with more stamina and more burst. With the work he has already done you will probably see him take over a quarter or two and swing a game or two with the play he is currently capable of this year. He has done every individual thing you can ask a player to do. His challenge is to stay involved and successful through the course of an entire game.

I hope that Kornet gets his moment and steps up as well as he did in his best games last year if not better. This might help Fizz rethink the value of DLeague in developing Frank if not anyone else. Dot came through it. Burke came through it. Tim did it in his prior stop. If Fizz is working on developing his rotation, he can trust Miller to develop his next man up.

Have Frank roll with Westchester till we come to the deadline or a decision on Trier. What possible harm could it do?
Title: Frank[ly] Speaking
Post by: chipstern on December 03, 2018, 05:59:12 AM
Agree.  My FOOL status with The Prophet Kiid, notwithstanding (his Bromance with Jimmer, and Hard On for Frank, already a matter of public record). 

Not sure Fizz wants Frank in Westchester anymore than he wanted Knox or Robinson. 

And with all due respect to Biz, I do not believe that the Knicks have CONCLUDED that Frank is not a PG. 

He has not been BENCHED anymore than Mario or Demyean. 

Fizz seems intent not on benching players but on what parents like to call TIME OUT. 

Not so much as an exercise in sitting in the corner until you eat your spinach, as a point of reflection, a way of observing the game and reflecting on how you might impact it through creative visualization. 

Sometimes, in the creative realm, you need to step back and take another perspective. 

Certainly worked like a charm for Kevin and Mitchell and Demyean in a dramatic overtime win against one of the league's best teams, particularly for Dotson, who has responded to this TIME OUT, and speculation about his contract and trade inquiries with a stretch of dramatic shooting efficiency. 

Now, with Burke nursing a sprained knee, Frank will see some burn at the point, with the template of Emmanuel's aggression and efficiency to motivate him.  Ditto those physical growth issues Facil duly noted. 

PS: Aw Chip, you never want to entertain any trades.  Not so...however, aspersions as to my reticence to package draft picks and assets and SUNDER TEAM CHEMISTRY for shiny objects, and expletives such as FUCK JIMMY and FUCK BEAL, are not so much insults as to the OBVIOUS TALENT of such players, as an expression of my willingness to be patient, based on our Knicks's well-documented and dubious history of quick fixes.  I am certainly prepared to have Forumites mock me for expressing a predilection to dance with the girls you brung, and, to borrow a well-used phrase, TRUST THE FUCKING PROCESS.  So, does that make Demyean Dotson a better player than Bradley Beal?  Does that mean I am too dense to kowtow to the notion that trading our starting center and our starting point guard for said expensive shining object is a no brainer?  YOUR CALL.  What it means to me is that I value our player developments and our draft picks; that the process of watching Tim Hardaway rack up assists, drain free throws [okay, he was 2-4, but 3-8 from trey] and take offensive fouls in the form of charges [#2 in the league] in winning TEAM EFFORTS is gratifying when the majority his shots aren't falling; that watching Alonzo Trier evolve into a combo guard capable at times of initiating the offense and racking up assists is as gratifying as pulling my pud at the prospect of cashing in assets for a shiny object; and that Demyean Dotson may not [yet] rate a comparison to Bradley Beal, but when I witness a stat line against a top tier team that includes 7-9 shooting, on 5-5 from trey, with 5 rebounds an assist and a steal and only 1 personal foul and no turnovers for a team leading +15 in 33 minutes off the bench, well, I'm going to be so bold as to say FUCK BEAL, trust the process, revel in the coming of age of players such as Dotson and Mudiay and Vonleh, and exercise PATIENCE in the nurturing process of Fizz regarding the likes of publically mocked UNDERACHIEVING PUPPIES such as Knox and Robinson as well as BUSTS such as French Frank and Subpar Mario. 

PPS: That's the long answer.  The short answer?  FUCK YOU TOO, Kiid. 
Title: The JiZZ WiZZ of FiZZ
Post by: chipstern on December 03, 2018, 06:11:45 AM
“Yeah, I think my actions speak for themselves. … No guy has gotten buried here,” Fizdale said. “If you’re available for me, I’ll use you. Just be ready to get out there and play well. Like Dot, there were a few ups and downs for him there, but he never let it bother him. He just came back and kept going.

“I would even say that about Enes [Kanter]. I moved Enes to the bench and he wasn’t happy about it necessarily because he’s a competitor. … But he never let it affect him, and that’s what a professional is. It doesn’t mean you have to be excited or happy about not playing, but it’s how you handle it and the way you go about competing.”

Point guard Emmanuel Mudiay similarly had trouble securing steady minutes early this season, but in 10 games since moving into the starting lineup on Nov. 14 against Oklahoma City, the former lottery pick (seventh overall by Denver in 2015) has averaged 14.3 points and 2.9 assists, including seven of his season-high 28 in OT against the Bucks.

“I think the team has a really good mindset of next-man-up mentality,” Mudiay said. “Like I said, there’s no real egos in this locker room. Everybody wants to see everybody succeed, so it’s been pretty good.

“Of course, the coaches are believing in you, believing in the whole team really, and they’re just instilling confidence in everybody, so it’s pretty fun.”
Title: A rose by any other name
Post by: Kam on December 03, 2018, 03:06:17 PM
Forum: We tankin'
Chip: Its not a tank guys!

Also
Chip: It's a soft tank

-

Forum: About time Fizz benched Frank
Chip: Fizz didn't bench Frank

Also
Chip: Fizz put Frank in time-out
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 03, 2018, 03:08:45 PM
Fizz didn't bench Frank.

He just moved him off the ball.

Completely.
Title: Kam Sandwich, The Continuing Saga
Post by: chipstern on December 03, 2018, 03:13:25 PM
Nicely played, homie. 
Title: Re: Kam Sandwich, The Continuing Saga
Post by: Kam on December 03, 2018, 03:30:42 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 03, 2018, 03:13:25 PM
Nicely played, homie.

You are my inspiration :)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 03, 2018, 04:47:33 PM
I suspect Frank gets some burn tonight with Trier, Dotson, Knox and Robinson/Kornet.

With the added bonus of seeing the Wall/Beal back court. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 03, 2018, 05:59:32 PM
Oubre has been a horror.

Forum favorite if I recall
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on December 03, 2018, 06:06:49 PM
Save Pierce and Manning , haven't liked a Kansas player since Wilt.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 03, 2018, 06:12:07 PM
Just about impossible to get just 0.7 assists per game in 24.8 minutes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 03, 2018, 06:19:00 PM
Bulls fired Hoiberg.
Yeah 5-19 is unsightly, but they've been without there best player Markaanen, Portis and Dunn have missed a ton.  Whaddaya expect?
They beat the 5 weak teams they faced.  Have had 6 close losses in a fairly tough schedule:  Lost to SA by 1; 3 point loss @ MIL; 2 point L v. IND; OT 1 Pt near-miss v. DEN; 2 pt loss to DET.

They have a young not great team with lots of injuries.
Looking at the schedule I can't see where they should have picked up more wins.  Lost to MIA at Home -- shrug.  Then @MIN was a Home/Road B2B.  Lost to DAL 2x, but they've been a pretty good team so far.

And again, the young Bulls have been injured.
Again, LaVine and Jabari and rook Carter Jr the only healthy decent players.  And that's some seriously bad defense.

Mark, Dunn, Portis, Valentine out for long stretches.
Not a good team, very young, lots of injuries.
Jim Boylan?
He's going to make a difference?

Well, here's a good article on the roster turmoil during Hoiberg's tenure and the shifts in direction: http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25442532/the-bulls-fred-hoiberg-ton-work-left
[edit: didn't notice it was Zach Lowe ... no wonder it's logn and in-depth]

A summation:
Quote
The bottom line is this: If you know after those three-plus seasons that Hoiberg is either a good or a bad NBA coach, I am both impressed and a little worried about the confidence you have in your convictions. I freely admit I have little idea. The Bulls have had zero on-court identity over that entire span, and a lot of that confusion -- likely most of it -- lays at the feet of Gar Forman and John Paxson above him.
&
Quote
The Bulls -- Forman, Paxson, ownership -- did not put Hoiberg in a position to succeed. Chicago's failures post-Rose are more about their choices and franchise circumstances -- digging out from the Rose-Noah era -- than anything Hoiberg did in games or in practices.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 03, 2018, 06:35:47 PM
I like uber-Kelly.
Plays with good energy, defends, rebounds.
WIZ use him as a spot-up shooter mostly, when his game is slashing and cutting.  Last year and this, nearly half his shots are 3's.  Last year he hit an acceptable 34%.  This year just 29%, which is more in line with his first two seasons.  I wouldn't have him hoisting nearly five 3's a game (in 25 mins).  I'd be using him as an energy bench guy, defending, slashing, cutting, midranging. 

But the whole team has been a disaster.  With poor chemistry.
So hard to judge him.
Oubre is 22, turns 23 next week.   He's been very up and down shooting and I think that affects his confidence and has made him somewhat foul prone.  WAS should play to his strengths while developing his 3-ball slowly over the next 2 or 3 years.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 03, 2018, 07:40:24 PM
Clearly a guy we had no interest in, nor should we have.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 03, 2018, 08:01:46 PM
2 years ago he would have been a good addition.
Right now we're loaded with young wings.
Still a guy to keep an eye on.

Young all-around guys who can't hit 3's (yet) could be good value pickups.  It's my StanJohnson theory of the NBA.
And if they develop a 3-point shot after a while, a la Crowder/DMC, then you have a great bargain on your hands.
Not that Uber's D is at StanJohnson's level.
But yeah, I'd keep monitoring Oubre.

Edit:  And as I was posting, Oubre forces a Knox turnover, then gets an offensive foul called on Vonleh, as Oubre forces his way over a screen.
Small plays that help a team.  Just fighting over screens, getting your hand in, etc.
Further edit:  Oubre just blocked a Dotson J.
3 good plays, and only one will show up in the box score.  But the coaches chart that stuff.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 03, 2018, 08:14:02 PM
Satoransky is the better player

I know he was maligned here earlier
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 03, 2018, 08:20:33 PM
Oubre much better.
Watch him on rebound scrums.
Watch him on D.

Sato is marginal.

If you can't see the difference between Uber-Kelly and Satoransky, I can't help you.  I presume this is just another example of your affirmative action scouting.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 03, 2018, 08:49:04 PM
Heh.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 03, 2018, 09:18:22 PM
I recommend you brush up on Satoransky's career

Wiz about to go to 2-0 since finally listening to me and going 3 guards
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 03, 2018, 09:46:09 PM
SEXTON playing another nice game for Cavs tonight at BK

Has been excellent since Knucklehead Smith said he couldn't play and they jettisoned asshole coach who wouldn't start him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 03, 2018, 10:16:11 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 03, 2018, 09:18:22 PM
I recommend you brush up on Satoransky's career
Wiz about to go to 2-0 since finally listening to me and going 3 guards

Wiz beat the Knix and Nets.
Not a big accomplishment.
With ATL next.
More schedule than lineup.

I assumed you wanted Awful Rivers to start.
Another favorite of yours.
I have no problem with Satoransky as a 15 min a night $3M role player.

WIZ sure played in spurts.  And looked awful the last 3 minutes, with Wall misdirecting things, and allowing the Knix to get back in it. Could've been a 1 pt game if Courtly made an uncontested layup.

Btw, Uber-Kelly is same age as Trier (22, soon to be 23) and 2 years younger than Dotson.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 03, 2018, 10:22:59 PM
Welcome back Courtney Lee.

Another DNP for young Frank.

Mitch got robbed on the oop.

I only saw the second half, which was tank-tastic. We need to choreograph better stuff to get guys open against tougher D. As it is, our best option is early offense.

Both Oubre and Satoransky would tell Kiid how wrong he is.
Title: The Prophet Kiid
Post by: chipstern on December 03, 2018, 10:35:09 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 03, 2018, 05:59:32 PM
Oubre has been a horror.

Forum favorite if I recall

H
E
H
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 03, 2018, 10:36:25 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 03, 2018, 07:40:24 PM
Clearly a guy we had no interest in, nor should we have.

No bromance?

Et, tu, Jimmer?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on December 04, 2018, 01:37:08 AM
Knix seem headed in the right direction. Not often you could say that this century. So whats the story on Franky?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 04, 2018, 04:06:04 AM
Fizz lets players sit on the bench and store up their scoring and other stats, so when they play again their numbers are higher.  Has worked for Trier, Dotson, Mud, even Mario.  Might be time to sit Mud back down and unleash Franc soon.

If Trier did what Oubre did tonight, Knick fans would be ecstatic.
If Oubre ever becomes a reliable 3-point shooter, he'd be a very solid wing starter.  But I like his effort, his energy, his intangibles.  There were a number of plays where Oubre was sneaking in for rebounds, including on some made baskets.  And his defense is good.

He's still 22 and makes mistakes.  He shot a 4Q 3-point airball.  He gambled to pick off a pass, but at least quickly switched on to another Knick when he saw an interior teammate pick up his man.

The issue with Oubre is he's going to be an RFA looking for a payday.  And while he's shown promise and has a nice all around game, at age 22/23 has yet to put it together and shown he's a legit starter.  And WASH payroll is terrible.

It seems too early to jettison Porter and have Oubre start at SF.  And the market for $26M Porter is going to be somewhat limited. (Sacto said to be interested).   And then even if that gamble paid off, their bench would still be threadbare.  Wiz relying on unreliable journeymen such as Jeff Green, Au Revoir, Dwight, Mahinmi.
Poor job of filling out the bench by Ernie G the past 3 or 4 years.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 04, 2018, 09:34:05 AM
Satoransky clearly a starter for quite a few NBA teams.  Wiz obviously included.

2-0.  Lets see where it goes

Good shooting game for Oubre.
Title: I clearly and obviosuly disagree
Post by: bodiddley on December 04, 2018, 10:59:32 AM
I don't think Satoransky would start anywhere.
He's not really a 3-point shooter, and this year his % is low.
He's slow-footed on D.  He's not a penetrator.  He is crafty and knows what he should be doing.  But he's also 27, so teams won't expect much progression.

PHX needs a PG, but Sato would be a bad pairing with Booker.
Reportedly they think Franc and his defense would pair up well, with Booker handling the ball mostly.
ORL needs a PG, but DJ Auggiemysonmyson is probably better than Sato. TJ McC a better player and fit in Philly.
Sato wouldn't start in Knickland.

Who else needs a starting G?
Where are these mythical "few teams" where Sato would start?

Wiz are trying to shake things up.
They are searching for chemistry and cohesion.  As well as trying to balance things so that they have a decent bench.
Again, they beat Nets, Knicks and have ATL and CLE next.
So it's a 4 game stretch v. weak opps that the WIZ are fully expected to beat.  No one would say the Wiz beat the Knix because Sato started.

Oubre had a nice all-around game with good shooting to boot.
I think you'd have a hard time finding a few people who think Satoransky is better than Oubre.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 04, 2018, 11:32:13 AM
So....

I guess we just wait and see where Satoransky signs this summer.

Real good player.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 04, 2018, 12:22:35 PM
Quite a few teams

Such as?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 04, 2018, 01:16:38 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 03, 2018, 10:22:59 PM
Welcome back Courtney Lee.

Another DNP for young Frank.

Mitch got robbed on the oop.

I only saw the second half, which was tank-tastic. We need to choreograph better stuff to get guys open against tougher D. As it is, our best option is early offense.

Both Oubre and Satoransky would tell Kiid how wrong he is.

You

A - favor black players

B - don't know shit about Satoransky

At least one of the above is true.
Title: Knox 28 minutes
Post by: Kam on December 04, 2018, 01:23:10 PM
The good: 8 pts 9 rbs 4 ast


The bad: 3-11  0-3  2-4


He just needs to keep shooting and put more good games together

good game = rebound, pass, score efficiently (threes, drives and free throws)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 04, 2018, 01:25:07 PM
Satoransky - Per 100 posessions:

Offensive rating -  121
Defensive rating -  116

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 04, 2018, 01:26:34 PM
Oubre is at

Offense -  103
Defense -  114
Title: Hey Fizz
Post by: Kam on December 04, 2018, 01:27:29 PM
Why did Mitch get so few minutes in a game he didn't foul out of?

4 pts 3 blks 2 ast 

(robbed of another 2 pts on that oop they called goaltending)

actually canned 2 free throws (out of 2)

14 minutes??
Title: About last night
Post by: Kam on December 04, 2018, 01:32:19 PM
Should disprove the notion that THjr and BEAL are at the same level.   Doubtful Washington would allow such a player to leave.
Title: Dotson last four games
Post by: Kam on December 04, 2018, 01:34:57 PM
18 pts 5 rbs per game.


Nice.
Title: Beal
Post by: chipstern on December 04, 2018, 02:46:57 PM
Did we suggest that Timmy and Beal were at the same level?

My recollection is more along the lines of not wanting to send our starting center and PG to entertain a Hardaway-Beal back court. 

But point taken.

Or not. 

Berman in today's POST concocted something where we traded Frank, Dotson, Lee, our 2020 #1 and some #2s for Wall. 

I rather fancy Dotson.  He is coming on strong, is a robust 6'6", plays tough D and has been, as Clyde put it, a FLAMETHROWER of late. 

DD responded to Fizz's time out by playing as h never wants to see the pine again. 

Trier in a bit of a funk, as teams prepare for him. 

Timmy a yoyo. 

As for Mitchell, Vonleh and Kanter were both effective. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on December 04, 2018, 04:53:31 PM
---Knicks Rumors: NYK Believed to Be Collecting Assets for Possible John Wall Trade---

More typical Dolan. Kill the cap and trade away choices for a diva name? Rebuild season must really irk him.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2809231-knicks-rumors-nyk-believed-to-be-collecting-assets-for-possible-john-wall-trade (https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2809231-knicks-rumors-nyk-believed-to-be-collecting-assets-for-possible-john-wall-trade)



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 04, 2018, 05:32:07 PM
Quote from: luee on December 04, 2018, 04:53:31 PM
---Knicks Rumors: NYK Believed to Be Collecting Assets for Possible John Wall Trade---

More typical Dolan. Kill the cap and trade away choices for a diva name? Rebuild season must really irk him.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2809231-knicks-rumors-nyk-believed-to-be-collecting-assets-for-possible-john-wall-trade (https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2809231-knicks-rumors-nyk-believed-to-be-collecting-assets-for-possible-john-wall-trade)

Chill. 

This is a media concoction. 
Title: Re: About last night
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 04, 2018, 06:04:39 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 04, 2018, 01:32:19 PM
Should disprove the notion that THjr and BEAL are at the same level.   

Has this been stated somewhere?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 04, 2018, 06:06:08 PM
Horrible Knicks offer for Wall, by the way
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 04, 2018, 08:21:04 PM
Wall has a horrible upcoming contract.
I saw one article claiming that Wall had the worst contract in the NBofA.

Otherwise I do recall at least one poster saying that Hardaway is a gifted, elite scorer.  Beal is better than that?

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 04, 2018, 08:33:58 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 04, 2018, 08:21:04 PM
Wall has a horrible upcoming contract.
I saw one article claiming that Wall had the worst contract in the NBofA.

Otherwise I do recall at least one poster saying that Hardaway is a gifted, elite scorer.  Beal is better than that?

Like Wall, for sure, but once again, while he may [or may not] be the peak of his career, turned 28 in September...surely an electrifying player, but dig: $38,150,000  $41,202,000  $44,254,000  $47,306,000 through the summer of 2023. 

Seriously. 

No

Thank

U

A horrible offer, Kiid? 

Sheeet, just matching numbers on his current salary of 19 million.  Frank, DD, Lee, a #1? 

Wiz are not going to do any better than THAT, not with the numbers coming beginning in the summer of 2019.  Would save a lot of money.  You kidding?  And what would your offer be? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 04, 2018, 08:54:21 PM
Bullsh×t

The number one is like a 16-20 pick.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 04, 2018, 08:55:02 PM
I don't have an offer.  But Mudiay would surely be in it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 04, 2018, 09:00:08 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 04, 2018, 08:55:02 PM
I don't have an offer.  But Mudiay would surely be in it.

Bless your heart. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 04, 2018, 09:06:16 PM
Like the man said - its a shi t contract.

Doesn't give me confidence at all that Perry is even discussing it.

All in for KD.  And Plan B, C, D after that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 04, 2018, 09:07:53 PM
Give up a 1st rounder for the honor of paying Wall $40M per year?
I wouldn't.

I don't even know if I like Wall as a player.
Is he any kind of leader?  Do his teams win?
And he's not Mr. Durable.

Why would the Knix win more with Wall than the Wizards have?
There's a reason he's likely available.
Watch the last 3 mins of the Knick-Wiz game again and get back to me ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 04, 2018, 10:23:53 PM
Wizards last losing season was 2012-13
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 05, 2018, 01:58:58 AM
You pay a guy $40M to lose in the 1st or 2nd round?

Last 5 years:
2017-18  43-39 .524   Lost E. Conf. 1st Rnd.   8th seed
2016-17  49-33 .598   Lost E. Conf. Semis      4th seed
2015-16  41-41 .500   Missed Playoffs            10th seed
2014-15  46-36 .561   Lost E. Conf. Semis      5th seed
2013-14  44-38 .537   Lost E. Conf. Semis      5th seed

That's Wall-Beal-Porter (Morris-Gortat)
One good year (one Home playoff series) and a bunch of decent/okay years.  44, 41, 43 wins and a losing record so far this year.
A .500 record and missed the playoffs?
With an all-star backcourt?
Unimpressive.  Underachieving.

How do you build a team around Wall?
You'd think you want some shooters and defenders.
Beal and Porter hit 3's and defend.
Gortat and Morris defend and board.
Didn't work out that well.

I really don't know how you construct a contending team around Wall.
Is there just a ceiling on a Wall-led team?
Can Wall actually lead a team?
I'm not paying $160M to find out.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 05, 2018, 03:56:53 AM
Didn’t we just do exactly that through the last CBA?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 05, 2018, 09:04:23 AM
 Alan Hahn: Literally no one believes this. No one. This is the definition of Fake News
– via Facebook.com

Trade, John Wall, New York Knicks, Washington Wizards
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 05, 2018, 10:35:51 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 05, 2018, 01:58:58 AM
You pay a guy $40M to lose in the 1st or 2nd round?

Last 5 years:
2017-18  43-39 .524   Lost E. Conf. 1st Rnd.   8th seed
2016-17  49-33 .598   Lost E. Conf. Semis      4th seed
2015-16  41-41 .500   Missed Playoffs            10th seed
2014-15  46-36 .561   Lost E. Conf. Semis      5th seed
2013-14  44-38 .537   Lost E. Conf. Semis      5th seed

That's Wall-Beal-Porter (Morris-Gortat)
One good year (one Home playoff series) and a bunch of decent/okay years.  44, 41, 43 wins and a losing record so far this year.
A .500 record and missed the playoffs?
With an all-star backcourt?
Unimpressive.  Underachieving.

How do you build a team around Wall?
You'd think you want some shooters and defenders.
Beal and Porter hit 3's and defend.
Gortat and Morris defend and board.
Didn't work out that well.

I really don't know how you construct a contending team around Wall.
Is there just a ceiling on a Wall-led team?
Can Wall actually lead a team?
I'm not paying $160M to find out.

In fairness to Wall, some of those starting fives did just fine. Ernie couldn't build a bench to save his life, and it's not on John that they got KILLED once the starters left the court. BUT ... that was then, at this point Wall looks so disinterested I wouldn't touch his contract with a you-know-what.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 05, 2018, 11:28:52 AM
I don't think that's a bad EC run.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 05, 2018, 11:30:55 AM
How many high picks were on those squads?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 05, 2018, 02:07:43 PM
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y8wsczqv (http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y8wsczqv)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 05, 2018, 02:26:36 PM
That trade saves us enough to cut Baker without blinking, which we’ll want to do to sign Trier.

Trading an old sore neck for a young sore neck.

I like Lee, but he’s not that important. Fultz is cheaper this year and next and could turn out to be a decent player if he gets right. If not the team has a lot of options to not be stuck with him.

Lee slots in nicely between Butler and Reddick.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 05, 2018, 02:30:25 PM
Baker using his 999th forum life.

Heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 05, 2018, 02:34:44 PM
Re:  trade

My guess is they would have better offers

Lee isn't even game dependent.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 05, 2018, 03:46:59 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 05, 2018, 02:34:44 PM
Re:  trade

My guess is they would have better offers

Lee isn't even game dependent.

Fultz has almost zero trade value.  My guess is the 76'ers would jump at a player closer to his contract year.  For this season Lee can help replace the depth they lost in the Jimmy Butler deal.  For next season Lee's expiring $$$ could be dealt for Philly's "Final Piece"
Title: The Continuing Saga Of Trader Vic[s]
Post by: chipstern on December 05, 2018, 05:38:38 PM
Fultz, huh?

Bottom's Up.

(http://www.guildtavern.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/mai-tai-ad.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 05, 2018, 07:39:20 PM
G League alert

Westchester vs Lakers (no Machado)

Currently on msg.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 05, 2018, 07:41:21 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 05, 2018, 03:46:59 PM


Fultz has almost zero trade value. 

Heh.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 05, 2018, 07:53:20 PM
I saw an article predicting a Fultz for Ariza trade.

With Ariza filling the Covington 3&D SF gap.
And being just a 1 year rental.
And PHX in such a rebuild and so far off the NBA tourist map that they could be patient with Fultz and hope he pairs with Booker well.
Opens up time for Bridges.

Philly will certainly wait until after Dec 15 to make a deal.

Ariza was always a weird FA acquisition for the Suns.
But he got a payday and they got an asset and a couple months of mentoring Bridges and their other wing yute.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 05, 2018, 07:55:00 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 05, 2018, 07:39:20 PM
G League alert

Westchester vs Lakers (no Machado)

Currently on msg.

So.....

ask me who looks good.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 05, 2018, 07:58:33 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 05, 2018, 07:53:20 PM
I saw an article predicting a Fultz for Ariza trade.

With Ariza filling the Covington 3&D SF gap.
And being just a 1 year rental.
And PHX in such a rebuild and so far off the NBA tourist map that they could be patient with Fultz and hope he pairs with Booker well.
Opens up time for Bridges.

Philly will certainly wait until after Dec 15 to make a deal.

Ariza was always a weird FA acquisition for the Suns.
But he got a payday and they got an asset and a couple months of mentoring Bridges and their other wing yute.

Well..........Sun's misusing Anderson.   :)

Sure.  Good deal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on December 05, 2018, 08:03:45 PM
kid is still assessing the 76ers- Celts trade.

I've have a pretty good idea what the Celts got, but am still pondering if the 76er end of the bargain was half-empty or half-Fultz?

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 05, 2018, 08:09:26 PM
As for Wiz, Yes their bench has been and still is poor.

Wall did improve his game from end-to-end blur to actually passing to teammates.  But Wall still plays iffy D.  And terrible transition D.  He's taken up the mantle of superstar who rarely bothers to get back from Wade.  Wall still isn't good in halfcourt clutch situations.  Because his 3-ball isn't that good and he gets smothered on drives and isn't good at running halfcourt sets.  He's also somewhat injury prone.

The idea of Wall is reminiscent of Melo.  Get a somewhat flawed star who is one of the highest paid in the League and watch him lead your team nowhere while sucking up cap space.  But Melo was (I think) 2 years younger, had impressive Olympic credentials, had been very clutch on Denver and was fully healthy.  Players liked Melo and his conditioning was never an issue.  The only advantage I see for Wall is that he plays the crucial PG position and it can be hard to obtain a high quality starting PG.  Also he'll be too old to re-sign to a ridiculous follow-up 2nd contract. 

Neither play defense or seem good at the "leadership thing" (tip of the hat to our recent dead president there).  Not denying Wall has talent, just that his salary outweighs that, and his flaws likely to keep his teams from going far.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 05, 2018, 08:23:28 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on December 05, 2018, 08:03:45 PM
kid is still assessing the 76ers- Celts trade.

I've have a pretty good idea what the Celts got, but am still pondering if the 76er end of the bargain was half-empty or half-Fultz?

I have never assessed it from Sixers end.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on December 05, 2018, 08:30:25 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 05, 2018, 08:23:28 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on December 05, 2018, 08:03:45 PM
kid is still assessing the 76ers- Celts trade.

I've have a pretty good idea what the Celts got, but am still pondering if the 76er end of the bargain was half-empty or half-Fultz?

I have never assessed it from Sixers end.

you didn' like "half-Fultz"?

To be fair, Fultz hasn't given you a lot to assess.

maybe closer to 1/10 Fultz.

But you did spend a fair amount of time last year taunting/trashing Tatum until it became glaringly obvious that Tatum was a standout rookie.

So a year+ post-trade, have you made any progress in assessing the pros and cons of the trade?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 05, 2018, 08:32:35 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 05, 2018, 07:53:20 PM
I saw an article predicting a Fultz for Ariza trade.

Philly will certainly wait until after Dec 15 to make a deal.


Philly would have to include more to make the salaries work.

Maybe if they trade Fultz for Lee they can trade Lee for Ariza.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 05, 2018, 08:37:21 PM
Hmmm

My bad - Machado IS playing

One of 3 NBA quality players in this game

All are Lakers though Knicks lead by 5.  Funny.

MVP has been Theresa Wetherspoon behind the mike.
Title: Philly
Post by: Kam on December 05, 2018, 08:42:46 PM
Philly's GM (Elton Brand) did not draft Fultz.  He did not trade for Fultz.  He has no allegiance to Fultz and little invested in him.  To Brand, Fultz is just another young player on their talented roster.  This young player is making 8.5mil going up 2 mil to 10.5 and another 2 to 12.5.  So he is not just a player, he is a player with a contract far outstripping his current value on the court. 

So he has no need or reason to be patient with Fultz.  Even if you believe in Fultz, is he worth that salary?

This is not a desirable asset - not just for the shoulder issues, but for the #1 pick contract that accompanies it.

Forget living up to expectations of greatness, just living up to 12.5 in two more years is in question.

Young players are usually Salary neutral or great bargains.  Fultz is neither.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 05, 2018, 08:55:59 PM
Hmmm

Good point about the contract
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 05, 2018, 08:57:47 PM
Kadeem Allen is a horror
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 05, 2018, 09:01:49 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on December 05, 2018, 08:03:45 PM
kid is still assessing the 76ers- Celts trade.

I've have a pretty good idea what the Celts got

...and I know what you didn't get

Does Tatum get Porter money plus?

For dwindling percentages, little ball movement and MEH board skills?

Lonzo would have been an All time great Celtic.  Ainge was spooked by dad.  Sad.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on December 05, 2018, 09:13:57 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 05, 2018, 09:01:49 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on December 05, 2018, 08:03:45 PM
kid is still assessing the 76ers- Celts trade.

I've have a pretty good idea what the Celts got

...and I know what you didn't get

Does Tatum get Porter money plus?

For dwindling percentages, little ball movement and MEH board skills?

Lonzo would have been an All time great Celtic.  Ainge was spooked by dad.  Sad.

Tatum + a potential lottery pick for Fultz was the trade.

Not the hundreds of millions Tatum will earn in future years, or the years spent on the shrink couch for Fultz.

its all irrelevant.

and you know it.

Kid-your childish insecurity to continue to skirt the issue and evade the glaringly obvious answer, as you seem think it  would be a sign of weakness is the only thing that is sad here.

SSDD
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 05, 2018, 09:29:05 PM
Blake looking real good v MIL.
But Bled just eating up Ish and Reg Jax.
ThonMaker having a real nice game, hustling on D, setting picks, popping in 2 corner 3's.

Most fun is Zaza and The Greek annoying each other.  Finally, Anti-Greek just barrels right over Zaza, getting called for a charge, with both players getting knocked down backwards.

Zaza such an annoying physical presence.   Tough guy, not particularly skilled.

I get to watch Brogdon and Stan John.  The former playing well.  Stan just a little off.  been aggressive on both ends but just not finishing. 

MIL getting to all loose balls.
Title: La opinion del Trumpo Chico
Post by: carlos123 on December 05, 2018, 09:50:31 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 05, 2018, 07:55:00 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 05, 2018, 07:39:20 PM
G League alert

Westchester vs Lakers (no Machado)

Currently on msg.

So.....

ask me who looks good.

Afraid nobody's interested in mini-Trump's opinion, la opinión del Trumpo Chico.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 05, 2018, 09:54:56 PM

Quote from: bankshot1 on December 05, 2018, 08:03:45 PM




Tatum + a potential lottery pick for Fultz was the trade.



How so?  They didn't like Fultz.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on December 05, 2018, 10:37:33 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 05, 2018, 09:54:56 PM

Quote from: bankshot1 on December 05, 2018, 08:03:45 PM




Tatum + a potential lottery pick for Fultz was the trade.



How so?  They didn't like Fultz.

Celts didn't like Fultz, or not enough to draft him #1, but 76ers liked him alot.

I boiled down the trade parameters to its essential elements.

Tatum + a lottery pick for Fultz.

Whether you insist on playing dumb or are dumb does not make for an adequate return on my time.

So I will take it that you would not have made the Ainge side of the deal as you seem incapable then and now how to value the pieces. 

Thanks for confirming.

 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 05, 2018, 10:37:51 PM
"Stan just a little off"

Heh.  No shit?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 05, 2018, 11:00:06 PM
Boston didn't like Fultz?  Or they did?  Which is it?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on December 05, 2018, 11:44:05 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 05, 2018, 11:00:06 PM
Boston didn't like Fultz?  Or they did?  Which is it?

Its irrelevant how Ainge really felt about Fultz as it relates to the trade.

Ainge wanted Tatum and got paid an additional 1st round draft choice for swapping with the 76ers.

that you keep trying to change the subject and evading the real issue is funny as hell.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 06, 2018, 01:01:20 AM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 05, 2018, 10:37:51 PM
"Stan just a little off"
Heh.  No shit?

What I was referencing at halftime, Stan had missed a 3 that kicked off both sides of the rim.  Drove hard, spun and missed a layup.  Got his hand on the loose rebound buy had it swiped away by Bled.  Another driving layup that missed but drew 2 defenders and should have been an easy Drummond O-board, but he was sluggish all night.

With Bulldog Drummond invisible, Jax and Ish playing like ish, and Bullock out, StanJohn was aggressive and tried to provide offense.  But he couldn't get the ball down and had a 3-16 FG stinker.  5 other Piston bench guys (including good ol' Jose) combined 3-18 FG.  DET was getting killed and Johnstan tried to step up.
 
On D Stan was The Man.  Forced Anti-Greek into a travel.  Covered a lot of court.  One early 4Q Bucks fast break, Johnstan short-circuited by running next to Bled, making a moving double team sandwich.  Stan nearly stole the ball, forcing Bled to pick up his dribble 30'+ out.  So Stan left that job done and sprinted to the corner to guard an open shooter.  Getting there the same time as the pass, for a clean steal.  A great effort play, down 20 or whatever.

Fun player to watch.  Hope he doesn't need to take 8 3's any other game ...   Stan needs to learn how to generate some easy shots, the type that can help a player get in rhythm.
 

Otherwise DiVencenzo looks pretty good out there.  My 2nd oe 3rd time seeing him get 10+ mins.  He only shot 1-5 FG, but his form is good and he knows where to be on the court.  Nearly blocked a Thon layup as a help defender coming from behind.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 06, 2018, 04:42:49 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on December 05, 2018, 11:44:05 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 05, 2018, 11:00:06 PM
Boston didn't like Fultz?  Or they did?  Which is it?

Its irrelevant how Ainge really felt about Fultz as it relates to the trade.

Ainge wanted Tatum and got paid an additional 1st round draft choice for swapping with the 76ers.

that you keep trying to change the subject and evading the real issue is funny as hell.

Bottom line?

End of discussion. 

Ainge wins, any way you slice it.

The Celtics apparently are sitting on FOUR #1 picks in the first round come the summer of 2019. 

One would think that all four could be packaged to move into the Top 3. 

Meanwhile...

The Tatum-Fultz Exchange pays further dividends for the Celtics, as the Fultz circles the fucking drain.  I find notions that the Knicks should trade for Fultz...well...get a fucking grip. 

MEANWHILE...

The Celtics will get the more desirable of the Sixers or Kings 2019 #1 pick. 

Kings are right on the cusp of the playoffs and the lottery out west.  And unless there is some untoward descent or injuries, Sacramento is a better team this season.  So currently the Celtics are looking at the player they wanted (Tatum) with serious upside, and the #12 pick in next summer's draft. 

Bank?

Why are you engaging on this? 

End of discussion...

Game

MATCH

CELTICS
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on December 06, 2018, 08:41:51 AM
Where does Ainge rank in GMs? Top 5 and face of Celts.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 06, 2018, 08:53:47 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 06, 2018, 01:01:20 AM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 05, 2018, 10:37:51 PM
"Stan just a little off"
Heh.  No shit?

What I was referencing at halftime, Stan had missed a 3 that kicked off both sides of the rim.  Drove hard, spun and missed a layup.  Got his hand on the loose rebound buy had it swiped away by Bled.  Another driving layup that missed but drew 2 defenders and should have been an easy Drummond O-board, but he was sluggish all night.

With Bulldog Drummond invisible, Jax and Ish playing like ish, and Bullock out, StanJohn was aggressive and tried to provide offense.  But he couldn't get the ball down and had a 3-16 FG stinker. 

He' a 38/30 career shooter.  These nights are expected.

Continue the love......you and his momma
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 06, 2018, 08:56:47 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on December 05, 2018, 11:44:05 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 05, 2018, 11:00:06 PM
Boston didn't like Fultz?  Or they did?  Which is it?

Its irrelevant how Ainge really felt about Fultz as it relates to the trade.

Ainge wanted Tatum and got paid an additional 1st round draft choice for swapping with the 76ers.



Liked 5 guys

Figured why not take the extra pick

a)  Jury still out on if he picked the right cat
b)  The PICK is turning much more sour than Danny expected.

Hey - some times you get unlucky.......
(and sometimes you pass on a generational player)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on December 06, 2018, 09:23:22 AM
Quote from: chipstern on December 06, 2018, 04:42:49 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on December 05, 2018, 11:44:05 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 05, 2018, 11:00:06 PM
Boston didn't like Fultz?  Or they did?  Which is it?

Its irrelevant how Ainge really felt about Fultz as it relates to the trade.

Ainge wanted Tatum and got paid an additional 1st round draft choice for swapping with the 76ers.

that you keep trying to change the subject and evading the real issue is funny as hell.

Bottom line?

End of discussion. 

Ainge wins, any way you slice it.

The Celtics apparently are sitting on FOUR #1 picks in the first round come the summer of 2019. 

One would think that all four could be packaged to move into the Top 3. 

Meanwhile...

The Tatum-Fultz Exchange pays further dividends for the Celtics, as the Fultz circles the fucking drain.  I find notions that the Knicks should trade for Fultz...well...get a fucking grip. 

MEANWHILE...

The Celtics will get the more desirable of the Sixers or Kings 2019 #1 pick. 

Kings are right on the cusp of the playoffs and the lottery out west.  And unless there is some untoward descent or injuries, Sacramento is a better team this season.  So currently the Celtics are looking at the player they wanted (Tatum) with serious upside, and the #12 pick in next summer's draft. 

Bank?

Why are you engaging on this? 

End of discussion...

Game

MATCH

CELTICS

Chip

I think thats a fair assessment on the trade. The winners and losers of the trade has been obvious for some time.  At least to most semi-conscious observers.

And this new Fultz ailment just drives home the point.

this thing has turned into a  semi-disaster for the 76ers.

Sac?
So far they've been a lot better than anyone predicted pre-season, most pundits had them as one of the worst team in the West. I figured there will be a reversion to the mean (for them and a lot of teams in the West) and the pick will fall in the 8-12 lottery range.

And with the talk about the Knicks trading for Fultz, I thought I'd have a little fun with kid and see him squirm his way out of discussing the subject or pronounce he was always a HUGE Tatum fan...

LOL
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 06, 2018, 10:32:00 AM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 06, 2018, 08:53:47 AM
He' a 38/30 career shooter.  These nights are expected.
Continue the love......you and his momma

The problem is almost everyone here doesn't want a player until a guy breaks through and is no longer available and/or no longer cheap.  Guys like DMC on Utah; Crowder on DAL; Dray Green when he was on the bench behind DavidLy; Middle- and Coving- tons.  All guys I targeted and touted, which met with shrugs and disinterest.

Really I'd prefer JohnStan to have another up-and-down poor shooting year to keep his value low-ish.  That's when you swoop in and nab him via trade or FA.  Is there a better defender in the League at 23 or younger?  (he turns 23 soon).  Well, I'd have to check Embiid and some other ages.  So amend that to: is there a better wing defender so young? 

Stan is also excellent on the fast break/open court.  You pay him for his defense and work with him to develop his shot.  If he can finish his drives better and hit league average 3's, then you would have a terrific player on a very favorable contract.  Again, he's almost 23.

I'm not looking for finished products.  I try to find guys with some viable skills who have the ability to develop and progress.  I tend to like defenders and guys with good motors.  And avoid high turnover guys, mistake players, shooters who shoot poorly (Malik Monk) and do little else.

Of course it's hard to know who is highly motivated and is willing to work hard.  As those are the guys most likely to progress.  Fans aren't really privy to that kind of info.  Though I do tend to assume that guys who work hard at defense are willing to put in the time to improve on O.  Because defense takes effort and most guys want to get some touches and shots which they only will if they can score.
Who was that recently who said "they don't pay guys to play defense"  -- Jabari?  That's the mentality I dislike. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 06, 2018, 01:13:08 PM
Celts-Sixers deal

I have no problem with Celts claiming victory on this.  But the return has diminished.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 06, 2018, 01:29:25 PM
Yeah, I guess the Celts probably came out ahead more or less, but ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 06, 2018, 01:39:33 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 06, 2018, 01:29:25 PM
Yeah, I guess the Celts probably came out ahead more or less, but ...

1997 ... Detroit trades Otis Thorpe to Vancouver, who had just gotten over their loss in the Stanley Cup, for a future first round pick
2003 ... Memphis Grizzlies hold their breath and watch as Joe Dumars selects Darko Milicic with that pick

Who won the trade?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on December 06, 2018, 01:56:22 PM
“I don’t know if it’s a learning lesson,” Fizdale said of Ntilikina’s demotion. “I want him to keep working hard and working on the things we talk about so when his time comes again, he’s ready to go.”

go?

if I'm frank i'm ready to go to another team.

there are others who would love him on their team.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 06, 2018, 02:19:20 PM
Where he would still have the same issues.

Patience . . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 06, 2018, 02:41:38 PM
Remember that Kiid doesn’t see the Celts Sixers trade as one where Ainge passed on Fultz for Tatum and a pick, but rather as one where Ainge passed on Ball. He is saying that the guy shooting .397 from the field while getting 5 boards 4 dimes and 8 points is the generational player while the guy getting 6 boards 2 dimes and 16 points while shooting that well from 3 and shooting far better closer in is the lesser player.

To make a classic Kiid ridiculous argument, it helps to start with an inarguably false premise or two.
Title: If I Were Frank
Post by: chipstern on December 06, 2018, 02:48:32 PM
Quote from: Nagel on December 06, 2018, 01:56:22 PM
“I don’t know if it’s a learning lesson,” Fizdale said of Ntilikina’s demotion. “I want him to keep working hard and working on the things we talk about so when his time comes again, he’s ready to go.”

go?

if I'm frank i'm ready to go to another team.

there are others who would love him on their team.

Funny.

I was just thinking the same thing about you. 

Fortunately, you are NOT Frank. 
Title: Douche Nozzles
Post by: chipstern on December 06, 2018, 02:55:31 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 06, 2018, 02:19:20 PM
Where he would still have the same issues.

Patience . . .

Thank you. 

I love Frank and want to see him advance, and advance as a Knick. 

The bar has been raised. 

Bud took more extreme actions when he challenged Timmy in Atlanta.  Hell, sent him down to G League. 

Fizz raised the bar for Mudiay and Burke. 

Both pined on the pine. 

Frank's turn in the bucket. 

The media, douche nozzles like Berman, and certain old women of our acquaintance, putting such an apocalyptic spin on things, doesn't help. 

But that comes with the territory. 

Please note, how Berman keeps advancing the narrative where Dotson and Ntilikina are on their way out of town as they were Jackson/Gaines picks, and not Mills/Perry picks.

Sigh.

Dare we point out how PORZINGIS was a Jackson/Gaines pick?

Even a broken crock is right twice a day.  More or less. 
Title: More Berman Bullshit
Post by: chipstern on December 06, 2018, 03:49:57 PM
A POST piece which purported to have Fizdale projecting the arrival of free agents, specifically, Kyrie Irving, to NY. 

Advance Warning. 

BULLSHIT. 

You may now return to this veil of tears. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on December 06, 2018, 05:35:41 PM
the honeymoon is OVER for me.

fuck him.

we are getting Durant, Irving, Kawhi and who did i miss?

because of our great TEAM of Dolan (cough, cough) and his group of brainiacs.

oh and it's NY.

Fuck him.  keep Frank on the bench to "GET READY"
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 06, 2018, 06:23:55 PM
Quote from: Nagel on December 06, 2018, 05:35:41 PM
the honeymoon is OVER for me.

fuck him.

we are getting Durant, Irving, Kawhi and who did i miss?

because of our great TEAM of Dolan (cough, cough) and his group of brainiacs.

oh and it's NY.

Fuck him.  keep Frank on the bench to "GET READY"

Yawn.

You'll be missed. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 06, 2018, 06:43:37 PM
Yes

Ainge passed on Ball.

Boston press never delved into that decision, since Celtics were always said to be favoring Fultz at #1.

When the deal was made not sure the suddenly soft Boston press uttered any critique - again since it appeared primo pick was coming in '18 or '19 (the pick that is now NOT coming).  This prior to Kyrie deal, which then made the Tatum deal more appealing short term

Long term is another story altogether.  Maybe in time a Boston press guy will grow some balls and ask something tough of his Aingeness.

Or maybe 1 title for Danny and OUGHT for Brad is just a-o-spiffin-k.

Heh.
Title: HEH
Post by: chipstern on December 06, 2018, 06:55:55 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 06, 2018, 06:43:37 PM
Yes

Singe passed on Ball.

Boston press never delved into that decision, since Celtics were always said to be favoring Fultz at #1.

When the deal was made not sure the suddenly soft Boston press uttered any critique - again since it appeared primo pick was coming in '18 or '19 (the pick that is now NOT coming).  This prior to Kyrie deal, which then made the Tatum deal more appealing short term

Long term is another story altogether.  Maybe in time a Boston press guy will grow some balls and ask something tough of his Aingeness6.

Or maybe 1 title for Danny and OUGHT for Brad is just a-o-spiffin-k.

Heh.

Uh, heh?

Kind of a willful misrepresentation of history, is it not? 

No surprise, there. 

Did not TEAM BALL and Padre BALL make it clear that The LAKERS were their ONLY CHOICE? 

Might that then explain why both Boston AND Philly passed on this generational talent? 

No, thank YOU. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on December 06, 2018, 07:44:33 PM
Franky's 6 and 2 is sorely missed.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 06, 2018, 07:54:26 PM
Quote from: luee on December 06, 2018, 07:44:33 PM
Franky's 6 and 2 is sorely missed.

Mudiay looked pretty sad for a long stretch back last spring. 

All things in time.

Unless, of course, you are Nagel. 

Then, we will shelve no whine before its time. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on December 06, 2018, 08:17:29 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 06, 2018, 06:43:37 PM
Yes

Singe passed on Ball.

Boston press never delved into that decision, since Celtics were always said to be favoring Fultz at #1.

When the deal was made not sure the suddenly soft Boston press uttered any critique - again since it appeared primo pick was coming in '18 or '19 (the pick that is now NOT coming).  This prior to Kyrie deal, which then made the Tatum deal more appealing short term

Long term is another story altogether.  Maybe in time a Boston press guy will grow some balls and ask something tough of his Aingeness6.

Or maybe 1 title for Danny and OUGHT for Brad is just a-o-spiffin-k.

Heh.

Perhaps you should just accept the realization that the Celts passed on both Futlz and Ball, and got the guy they wanted and a likely lottery pick as a kicker.

What's the tough question you thinik that wasn't asked Ainge?

Why did you pass on Futlz?

Ainge had him in to kck the tires but passed on Fultz, when they had IT, Rozier, and Smart as guards, but they needed another scorer/wing.

And Tatum was their guy, and they found a willing trade partner who had the currency to do the deal.

And the pick you say is not not coming, is still coming, as are 3 other 1st round picks.

Which suggests trader Danny might have some work to do.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 06, 2018, 10:04:51 PM
Vonleh has looked good.
Mud looked good 1st half, then started making mistakes and trying to do too much 3Q.
Trier and Dot didn't get much time as Fizz wen with Mud-Tim a long stretch.  Knox out of sorts.

On the flip side, best I've seen Horford look this year.
Tuatm's done a lot of good stuff including some saves that won't show up in the box.
Kyrie even putting in some effort on D.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 06, 2018, 10:23:26 PM
Haven't been watching but all I can say is Celtics unis are absolutely gruesome.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on December 06, 2018, 10:35:01 PM
kid's not gonna like his secret Santa present.

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on December 06, 2018, 10:36:59 PM
not a lot of buzz in that game

or D (particularly 1st half)

a boring game
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 06, 2018, 10:39:58 PM
It did demonstrate that if Ball, Fultz, and Tatum are all available and you can only pick one, you take Tatum unless you are an idiot.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 06, 2018, 11:02:58 PM
Yup, boring f'ing game. More points does not = more fun. Hope the NBA takes note after this tragic experiment of a season. Doubt it though.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 07, 2018, 01:14:37 AM
We broke Baynes again.

GMs have to build better squads. You need two centers at least who can switch out credibly on a Kyrie or a Reddick and defend the rim and help in space. Checking those boxes is far more important than winning the body and the rebound battle against other centers. That said, Kanter is now pretty solid in his back wall D. If he could rim protect and handle pick and rolls better, a modern team could compete while giving him a starter’s role. He may develop those skills beyond where he’s at and grow more valuable as he matures. You can’t say he hasn’t already added things to his game, though the 3 pointer isn’t one of them.

It was nice to see Kornet stretch his legs for more than 2 seconds. He spent a chunk of his time wide open under the basket with his hands up, which might just be rust from Yabusele and Odjeli (sp?), though I take as a good sign from a 7’ tall guy and a byproduct of him being a real threat to shoot.

Has the buyer’s remorse kicked in on Mario yet?

Also some decent baby steps from our actual draft picks tonight, though both still need a lot of work.

Celts can be very good when they are intent on getting 50/50 balls, as we saw tonight.

We looked young and disorganized under pressure, which was no surprise. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on December 07, 2018, 02:53:54 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 03, 2018, 06:35:47 PM
I like uber-Kelly.

Really missed an opportunity to call him Oubremensch.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on December 07, 2018, 02:54:51 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 05, 2018, 08:09:26 PM
As for Wiz, Yes their bench has been and still is poor.

Wall did improve his game from end-to-end blur to actually passing to teammates.  But Wall still plays iffy D.  And terrible transition D.  He's taken up the mantle of superstar who rarely bothers to get back from Wade.  Wall still isn't good in halfcourt clutch situations.  Because his 3-ball isn't that good and he gets smothered on drives and isn't good at running halfcourt sets.  He's also somewhat injury prone.

The idea of Wall is reminiscent of Melo.  Get a somewhat flawed star who is one of the highest paid in the League and watch him lead your team nowhere while sucking up cap space.  But Melo was (I think) 2 years younger, had impressive Olympic credentials, had been very clutch on Denver and was fully healthy.  Players liked Melo and his conditioning was never an issue.  The only advantage I see for Wall is that he plays the crucial PG position and it can be hard to obtain a high quality starting PG.  Also he'll be too old to re-sign to a ridiculous follow-up 2nd contract. 

Neither play defense or seem good at the "leadership thing" (tip of the hat to our recent dead president there).  Not denying Wall has talent, just that his salary outweighs that, and his flaws likely to keep his teams from going far.

I wouldn't take Wall if all we had to give up was cap space and a heavily protected second rounder.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on December 07, 2018, 02:56:25 AM
Quote from: Kam on December 05, 2018, 02:07:43 PM
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y8wsczqv (http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y8wsczqv)

Most teams can offer more to the Sixers.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 07, 2018, 02:59:03 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on December 06, 2018, 10:35:01 PM
kid's not gonna like his secret Santa present.

Split the difference -- get him a Lonzo Ball Celt uni ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 07, 2018, 03:09:30 AM
Celts with 7 fellers in double figures.
Good game from Rozier. 
Confident and very active (hell on one play he fouled two Knix 20 feet apart trying to stop a fast break).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 07, 2018, 03:16:45 AM
Benching and reinsertion worked well for Burke, Mud, Trier, Dot.
But all those guys have gone through more career adversity than Franc or Knox.
Everyone is different and may respond differently.
At least the template has been set that you can bounce back from being out of the rotation to starting under Fizz.
But just a cautionary note that DNP's might motivate some guys and sap the confidence of others.  Franc and Knox are quite young and are important to the franchise.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 07, 2018, 03:24:02 AM
Btw, without Wall, WIZ set a season high with 35 assists.  Shades of last year.  And WASH still went with 3 guards starting: Beal-Sato-Rivers. Beal had a huge game.  Caveat: it was only against creampuff ATL.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on December 07, 2018, 03:51:42 AM
Knox, until the other day, hadn't been any better in games than Frank. But he was given a longer rope.

Additionally, this is two coaches who have been frustrated by Frank. Something's up. All we see in games and interviews is someone who appears diligent and determined to get better, always saying the right things. But two coaching staffs have liked him less than we have. Why?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 07, 2018, 05:00:17 AM
Not sure about that.
Seems most here worry that Franc might not be a starter, might not be a PG, might not be able to offend.

I'm of the opinion that Mud, Burke and Franc all play better when allowed to have long minutes.  That they get in rhythm, read the flow and feel more confident.

I'm also underwhelmed by the Trier at backup PG experiments.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on December 07, 2018, 06:24:07 AM
I agree with your latter couple points. Our O looks lost with Trier at the 1. And young players need to be able to establish their rhythm.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 07, 2018, 08:39:20 AM
 Lakers 12-4 when Rondo does not play 20 minutes.  3-5 when he does
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 07, 2018, 08:42:02 AM
3 guards for the Wizards?

What a concept!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 07, 2018, 08:51:35 AM
Kelly Oubre had his 12th 0 assist game of the year Wednesday

He has 11 games with 1 assist

This is in 25 games

That is 92% where he couldn't provide more than one helper for a teammate

Scary bad.

Yeah, lets throw money at that

Heh.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 07, 2018, 08:53:22 AM
Re:  Mario

How much is Perry judged on this - and how much on the draft picks?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 07, 2018, 09:28:02 AM
Jury out on Knox.  And Mitch kind of fell in our laps.  Metu and Kurucs drafted later and doing well.....

Just keeping it real.  Biggest job for Perry of course lies ahead.
Title: Re: HEH
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 07, 2018, 09:34:35 AM
Quote from: chipstern on December 06, 2018, 06:55:55 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 06, 2018, 06:43:37 PM
Yes

Singe passed on Ball.

Boston press never delved into that decision, since Celtics were always said to be favoring Fultz at #1.

When the deal was made not sure the suddenly soft Boston press uttered any critique - again since it appeared primo pick was coming in '18 or '19 (the pick that is now NOT coming).  This prior to Kyrie deal, which then made the Tatum deal more appealing short term

Long term is another story altogether.  Maybe in time a Boston press guy will grow some balls and ask something tough of his Aingeness6.

Or maybe 1 title for Danny and OUGHT for Brad is just a-o-spiffin-k.

Heh.

Uh, heh?

Kind of a willful misrepresentation of history, is it not? 

No surprise, there. 

Did not TEAM BALL and Padre BALL make it clear that The LAKERS were their ONLY CHOICE? 

Might that then explain why both Boston AND Philly passed on this generational talent? 

No, thank YOU.

No.

Boston and Philly both preferred Fultz

And that still might be wise.  We will see how it plays out.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 07, 2018, 09:36:55 AM
Now...if either team postures taking Ball at 1, what do the Lakers do?  Do they surrender something to move up?

Reports were saying no but not sure I believe them.  Nor do I believe Ball wouldn't report to Boston.

You?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 07, 2018, 10:20:27 AM
Mudiay starts

63-137 fg
17-44 3 pt
33-40  ft

Starts and plays 30 minutes

21-48 fg
8-14 3 pt
11-12 ft
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 07, 2018, 10:27:32 AM
Still open to welcoming a starting pg for next season.  But at least we are beyond the "Frank is the future at the position" malarchy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 07, 2018, 10:37:24 AM
Lol. We ain't. Mudiay still sucks as a starting PG. Not as bad as Trier, tho.



** Well, if you enjoy giving up 38 points a quarter, he could be the guy for you. Onward New Defensive Culture.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 07, 2018, 10:48:18 AM
I like pgs that score 20.

But that's just me.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 07, 2018, 11:02:16 AM
Well, me, I'd be very happy with a guy who scores less, moves the rock, and has a significant impact on the other team's offensive output.

I guess it's all aesthetic preference.

I'd never be happy giving up 38 point first quarters.

You'd be happy giving up 38 point first quarters as long as we score 41. Fair enough.


***"We just had fun kicking people's ass," Irving said.
Glad the other team had fun last night.
Title: Carmelo Anthony & The New Analytics
Post by: chipstern on December 07, 2018, 11:23:01 AM
The Last Great American Ballhog

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25459090/carmelo-anthony-last-great-american-ball-hog (http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25459090/carmelo-anthony-last-great-american-ball-hog)

Writer breaks down how NBA Rules Changes following the Pistons winning their last NBA Championship with a clogging defensive style, relegated Anthony to the LaBrea Tar Pits along with the other dinosaurs. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 07, 2018, 12:07:27 PM
Well....if Mudy was playing entire first quarters you might have a point

30-38
32-26
28-35
27-41
19-24
21-26
28-34

Last 7 games

First quarters we are a -39.

But funny - combined for those games EM is just a -10.

Not a big +/- guy usually but this stands out.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 07, 2018, 03:26:02 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on December 07, 2018, 03:51:42 AM

Additionally, this is two coaches who have been frustrated by Frank. Something's up. All we see in games and interviews is someone who appears diligent and determined to get better, always saying the right things. But two coaching staffs have liked him less than we have. Why?

Franc is a Larry Borwn type.  Play the right way.  Chess not checkers type. Today's offensive-centric game is more checkers than chess.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 07, 2018, 03:43:56 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 07, 2018, 08:53:22 AM
Re:  Mario

How much is Perry judged on this - and how much on the draft picks?

Perry repeated his draft error.  He just couldn't leave bad enough alone.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on December 07, 2018, 04:29:04 PM
starting super Mario and benching frank show how brainless our coach is.

telling the world players will come to Ny because of our strong leadership and mentioning Dolan makes me ill and proves my point.

i feel bad for KP.


just get out brother.  Clippers and Kawhi are waiting.
Title: George Hill traded to MIL
Post by: Kam on December 07, 2018, 06:20:06 PM
for their entire 2021 draft, John Henson, and Matthew Dellavedova.



That is a a ton to give up for G.Hill.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 07, 2018, 07:48:12 PM
Quote from: Nagel on December 07, 2018, 04:29:04 PM
starting super Mario and benching frank show how brainless our coach is.

telling the world players will come to Ny because of our strong leadership and mentioning Dolan makes me ill and proves my point.

i feel bad for KP.


just get out brother.  Clippers and Kawhi are waiting.

Nah

Wiz are better with the 3 guards.  But Knicks best with THJ at the 2

If not Mario someone else would be in frontcourt.

LEE is the only other G I would consider but he isn't ready yet.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 07, 2018, 08:38:52 PM
Ouberman, last 5 games:
48% FG /52% on 3's; 15 Pts / 5 Boards. .8 blocks 1.2 steals.
In that 5 game span had a game of 22, 21 & 19 pts.
3 blocks v. NYK.
But kiid wants to worry about the 22 year old's assists.

KO has one of those odd H/R splits:
Home 22.4 mins  37.1% FG   3's: 0.8-3.7  20.5%   9.2 Pts
Road  27.5 mins  46.3% FG   3's: 2.2-5.5  38.9%   15.2 Pts

The Road shooting/scoring is terrific.
Awful at Home.  Wonder what that is all about?
Distracted in DC?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 07, 2018, 09:40:10 PM
Bucks keep maneuvering.

Now it’s George Hill and Jason Smith to the Bucks, Henson and Delly to the Cavs, and Sam Dekker to the Wiz.

Bucks are getting seasoned depth for their run.

Wiz get a little younger and a little cheaper.

Cavs be tearing it down, but getting a link to their olden days along with a pick and Henson.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 07, 2018, 10:16:58 PM
Bucks were mainly dropping salary.
Hill just $1M guaranteed for next year.
Cavs get a late 1st rounder for absorbing $20M in next year salary.
They also get a good boarder in Henson.

Henson's been injured, so maybe JasonSmiff can help MIL.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 07, 2018, 10:21:14 PM
Nets beat Raps in OT.

RHJ played good D on Kawhi.
Tangelo scored 7 early OT points.
Then drove out of bounds and after dribbled around til finally out of bounds.  Yute.

I saw that Nets have 2nd worst Home attendance.
But it must've been capacity for TOR and was loud at the end.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 07, 2018, 10:22:55 PM
Jason Smith... "once a knick always a knick" has been diluted a bit

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 07, 2018, 11:19:09 PM
Disagree about Bucks intent

Hill provides another steady ballhandler for this year's run in wide open east.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 07, 2018, 11:32:15 PM
Meanwhile I see Noah has landed in first place

Heh.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 08, 2018, 12:21:26 AM
PERFECT FIT
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 08, 2018, 12:37:14 AM
For Bucks a minor PG upgrade, a minor PF downgrade.
I'm sure they are hoping Hill can steady things and provide some organization to the Bucks offense.  And do more than Deli.  If Hill can stay healthy.  Just missed 11 games to end Nov.

But the impetus was to ditch their two worst contracts to free up $19M for next year so they can re-sign key guys.  While not hurting this year's run (and maybe helping it).

They certainly need more than Giannis Runs Over People to finish games.  GS game, Anti-Greek bowls over people, or contested Lopez 3's.  Brogdon needs to hit his open 3's.  I'm a big Brog fan -- heady player -- but he was missing short, long, everywhichway.  And what's up with Middleton?  He should be the primary 2nd option.

Bucks bench is okayish, some inconsistent folk. 
Not sure how far you can go with Bledsoe as your PG. 
not to mention your star unable to hit from outside.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 08, 2018, 10:21:05 AM
Quote from: Nagel on December 07, 2018, 04:29:04 PM
starting super Mario and benching frank show how brainless our coach is.


Jesus. Really? Brainless?

I think we got a real coach.

But I would have liked to see Frank's defense in that Celtics game. It gets a little embarrassing when you can't get stops for 4 continuous quarters. So many easy baskets.
Title: ClipperJane
Post by: chipstern on December 08, 2018, 11:09:37 AM
Quote from: Nagel on December 07, 2018, 04:29:04 PM
starting super Mario and benching frank show how brainless our coach is.

telling the world players will come to Ny because of our strong leadership and mentioning Dolan makes me ill and proves my point.

i feel bad for KP.


just get out brother.  Clippers and Kawhi are waiting.

(https://media.self.com/photos/59f3980bf885920bb1091751/4:3/w_728,c_limit/eyes.gif)

(http://rsmg.pbsrc.com/albums/v68/SassyOphelia/GIFs/cryingsohardrightnow.gif~c200)


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on December 08, 2018, 02:55:51 PM
Quote from: elephant on December 08, 2018, 10:21:05 AM
Quote from: Nagel on December 07, 2018, 04:29:04 PM
starting super Mario and benching frank show how brainless our coach is.


Jesus. Really? Brainless?

I think we got a real coach.

But I would have liked to see Frank's defense in that Celtics game. It gets a little embarrassing when you can't get stops for 4 continuous quarters. So many easy baskets.

the brainless part is mentioning dolan as part of the reason free agents would want to come to NY.


he actually said that.



playing Mario and benching Frank may have a purpose I can't see so he gets a pass on that.  paying Mario 8 million makes no sense to me.
Title: Re: ClipperJane
Post by: Nagel on December 08, 2018, 03:01:23 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 08, 2018, 11:09:37 AM
Quote from: Nagel on December 07, 2018, 04:29:04 PM
starting super Mario and benching frank show how brainless our coach is.

telling the world players will come to Ny because of our strong leadership and mentioning Dolan makes me ill and proves my point.

i feel bad for KP.


just get out brother.  Clippers and Kawhi are waiting.

(https://media.self.com/photos/59f3980bf885920bb1091751/4:3/w_728,c_limit/eyes.gif)

(http://rsmg.pbsrc.com/albums/v68/SassyOphelia/GIFs/cryingsohardrightnow.gif~c200)

i know how you feel.  don't cry now.   you've had 6 years of this.  aren't the  tears used up?

think of the Ewing deal?  think the our draft record?   picture James Dolan.  Lowry?  naw we don't need that guy.

PS

i'm still s knick fan.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 08, 2018, 04:36:18 PM
Sub-par Mario?  It's a 1 year dealio.
And you can see glimpses of a good player, hidden among the dopey plays.  Good size, fairly good looking shot, maybe our best cutter.
He just has a preference for flashy stuff and looks too casual.  Not much on D.  I've labeled him a mistake player, and not sure his head can adjust to what he should be doing.  But a good gamble, just like Vonleh, Mud, Burke.  Not every reclamation will pay off or work out.

Basically just pretend Vonleh is making Mario money and Mario has Noah V's contract.  There now, all better?

Also, Knox is clearly not ready to start at SF.  Vonleh more of a 4/5 type.  Lance on low boil.  So Mario is the default SF.  If Mario continues to underperform, we may see recently resurrected Courtly at paired with Tim at SF.  And at some point Lance will return.
For now, Mario gets to try to figure things out.  Starting should boost his confidence and effort and hopefully focus.  If I were coach, I'd be yelling at Mario, Make the simple play. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on December 08, 2018, 06:45:45 PM
NY in 5th place in the lottery.

come on guys.

you are better than that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 08, 2018, 07:40:57 PM
DEN super banged up.
Harris out a month.
Millsap probably 2.
Barton still out.

Murray maybe returning.

And long term gimps Porter Jr and IT

Monte Morris and Juancho have stepped up nicely.
I thought Juancho looked like a smart player Y1 in DEN.  Then got injured and forgotten.  Smart, good skills, nice effort.
Morris very poised.

So they have a pretty good bench:
Morris - Barton - Lyles - Plumlee (Beasley and Craig)
They just need good health, especially from Milsap.

Wonder how the Porter pick will turn out.
I like the gamble, but there were other good options: Okogie, DiVencenzo, Shamet, our own Mitch, Zhaire, etc.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 08, 2018, 08:02:43 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 08, 2018, 12:37:14 AM
For Bucks a minor PG upgrade, a minor PF downgrade.
I'm sure they are hoping Hill can steady things and provide some organization to the Bucks offense.  And do more than Deli.  If Hill can stay healthy.  Just missed 11 games to end Nov.

But the impetus was to ditch their two worst contracts to free up $19M for next year so they can re-sign key guys.  While not hurting this year's run (and maybe helping it).

They certainly need more than Giannis Runs Over People to finish games.  GS game, Anti-Greek bowls over people, or contested Lopez 3's.  Brogdon needs to hit his open 3's.  I'm a big Brog fan -- heady player -- but he was missing short, long, everywhichway.  And what's up with Middleton?  He should be the primary 2nd option.

Bucks bench is okayish, some inconsistent folk. 
Not sure how far you can go with Bledsoe as your PG. 
not to mention your star unable to hit from outside.

Thus....

Foresee a Hill/Bledsoe backcourt at times?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 08, 2018, 08:05:31 PM
Good to get a look at Kurucs tonight

Fiz says he will look at Trier at PG

Of course.  After all we have just one

Tempted to rescue Machado from Laker G League action.  But heard he was about to join Brazil.  (Or is that over now?)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 08, 2018, 08:11:41 PM
As I said....

Knicks -7 first quarter

Mudy -2
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 08, 2018, 08:19:31 PM
Sure, we're worse with Trier at PG.
Free Franc.

Mud: 2 FG's; 3 TO's early.

9 Nets have scored in 14 mins
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 08, 2018, 08:29:16 PM
There's that overpaid Crabbe guy again...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 08, 2018, 08:35:29 PM
Celtics appear to have things solved with Gordie out of the lineup.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 08, 2018, 08:42:20 PM
Wow - Otto Porter took 9 first half shots and had a 15-6 half

Sexton (just should have started him, Lue) with 17 and 5.  Cavs up 16
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 08, 2018, 08:52:34 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 08, 2018, 08:29:16 PM
There's that overpaid Crabbe guy again...
He's been playing better lately, but is still shooting just 32% FG.
Making $18.5M.
I thought he was better than Hardaway.  I was wrong.
Been a disappointment as a Net.
Crabbe doesn't do much besides shoot 3's fairly well.
I prefer Joe Harris, a dead-eye shooter who cuts around and puts pressure on the D.  Also, playing good D on Tim Jr so far.

Knix lucky to be down just 11 at the half.
How many times did the announcers mention that Tim was a streaky shooter?  Must be a record for a half.  Tim with a 3 point 1st half.  Sort of a trend lately, with him perking up 2nd half.  We shall see.

And not surprised Knix give up a lot of 1Q points starting Mud-Tim-Mario-Kant
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 08, 2018, 09:09:25 PM
Check the MSG marquee.

I think it says:

Kanter v. Brooklyn Nets
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 08, 2018, 09:18:19 PM
Great oop by Mitch

WTF is with Knox's kicks?  Bad, man.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 08, 2018, 09:19:49 PM
2 new teams just called about Daem.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on December 08, 2018, 09:48:18 PM
solid loss lead by our dynamic 2 guard.

Garden fans paying 150 bucks a game must be thrilled.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 08, 2018, 10:08:08 PM
Hey, he's an elite scorer, leave him alone.

Frank, Knox & Mitch all did some good things.
Also, Franc's 3's are unlikely; Mitch fouled a lot and missed all his FT's; Knox got beat on the boards and embarrassed on the Nets last inbounds play.

Franc had 3 quick assists, but one was a simple pass to Dotson for a 25 footer.  And Mitch made a great play converting Franc's off-target lob.  I don't recall the other one.
Franc did play good defense and slowed down Dimwilly.

At least the pups showed energy and fight. 
Knix gave up 94 in 3Q's before Fizz gave up on his starters.
I guess we just needed the Loss more.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 08, 2018, 10:16:45 PM
The 4th Quarter made this easier to take.

I’ve never seen Frank that vocal before.

Knox had a couple of plays where he showed why it’s worth having patience as he goes through his toddler phase.

Somehow Robinson did not foul out. I find that pretty amazing considering how early he got his 5th and how much perimeter trapping he was doing.

This game was a mess, but combined with wins by the Hawks and Cavs it helped the tank.

Kanter is a great player. How come no one ever calls about Kanter?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on December 08, 2018, 10:34:58 PM
Celts just played about as flawless a game as I can easily remember.

133-77.

Got off to a 17-0 run and rolled from there.

Celts D was choked the life out of the Bulls.

Bulls dogged it in 2nd half and lead peaked at 58, and ended as (tied) for largest road margin of victory in NBA history at 56.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 08, 2018, 10:39:48 PM
Who the F is Daniel Theis?

He just laid down the only +50 plus minus I can ever remember seeing in my life.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on December 08, 2018, 10:55:54 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on December 08, 2018, 10:39:48 PM
Who the F is Daniel Theis?

He just laid down the only +50 plus minus I can ever remember seeing in my life.

He was a huge on both ends of the court.

Started in place of a hurting Horford.

Usually the 7th, 8th, 9th guy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 08, 2018, 11:02:04 PM
He’s got a really nice game. I always worry about Theis when we play the Celts.

I have to hand it to the Nyets, they come at you with a solid game plan. Dinnwidie is worth thinking about with free agent bucks unless we see a lot of internal improvement from someone.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 09, 2018, 03:06:07 AM
That was probably Hoiberg's fault . . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 09, 2018, 03:07:04 AM
I didn't realize that was the 1st game of a Home-Home B2B for NYK.
CHA soon.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 09, 2018, 03:29:35 AM
on Vonleh:

"I didn't realize how versatile he was," New York coach David Fizdale said. "And [general manager] Scott Perry just kept saying it to me. He said, 'Coach, when this kid was in high school, man, this kid could do everything.'"





Despite being discarded by the Hornets, Blazers and Bulls,
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 09, 2018, 10:16:31 AM
What you call a post hype sleeper.

Went to Indiana as a Mcdonalds All American and came out way early for a reason.

Big Ten Freshman of the Year and 3rd team all Big Ten
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 09, 2018, 02:20:14 PM
Vonleh must've come out too early.
Because I recall seeing him on CHA and he looked completely clueless.
In POR he looked limited, but at least like he had played the game before.

Really, all these Knick reclamations make for pretty good storylines and make the guys easy to root for.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 09, 2018, 04:24:16 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 09, 2018, 02:20:14 PM
Vonleh must've come out too early.
Because I recall seeing him on CHA and he looked completely clueless.
In POR he looked limited, but at least like he had played the game before.

Really, all these Knick reclamations make for pretty good storylines and make the guys easy to root for.

Was working last night, so I missed the game. 

Checked ESPN Scoreboard out on the road, and saw that the Nyets were eviscerating us. 

Last time I checked, another fourth quarter run. 

Woke up this morning to double check the box scores, as I was encouraged to see Herzonja had 5 boards in 20+ minutes, and hit 3-4 from trey...a positive sign, as he has a deadly jumper with range, the desultory, up-and-down start to his season notwithstanding.  Then I saw that he had a -14, highest amongst the Knicks.  Wassup wid dat? 

Also saw that Frank had the highest Knicks + in limited minutes.

PS: The Merciless One texted me, vis a vis my eternal optimism amidst this season's player development and slow tank.  He eviscerated me for my belief in the same old same old: "Win one lose three."  He then, in a moment of brotherly outreach, invited me to "Suck my dick."  I wondered if he had washed his testicles.  TO BE A KNICKS FAN IS TO SUFFER.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 09, 2018, 04:45:57 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 09, 2018, 04:24:16 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 09, 2018, 02:20:14 PM
Vonleh must've come out too early.
Because I recall seeing him on CHA and he looked completely clueless.
In POR he looked limited, but at least like he had played the game before.

Really, all these Knick reclamations make for pretty good storylines and make the guys easy to root for.

Was working last night, so I missed the game. 

Checked ESPN Scoreboard out on the road, and saw that the Nyets were eviscerating us. 

Last time I checked, another fourth quarter run. 

Woke up this morning to double check the box scores, as I was encouraged to see Herzonja had 5 boards in 20+ minutes, and hit 3-4 from trey...a positive sign, as he has a deadly jumper with range, the desultory, up-and-down start to his season notwithstanding.  Then I saw that he had a -14, highest amongst the Knicks.  Wassup wid dat? 

Also saw that Frank had the highest Knicks + in limited minutes.

PS: The Merciless One texted me, vis a vis my eternal optimism amidst this season's player development and slow tank.  He eviscerated me for my belief in the same old same old: "Win one lose three."  He then, in a moment of brotherly outreach, invited me to "Suck my dick."  I wondered if he had washed his testicles.  TO BE A KNICKS FAN IS TO SUFFER.

All prepared to pucker up, but Mirasja has yet to get back to me. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on December 09, 2018, 05:59:36 PM
Kemba( our future signing) is coming in.

Kemba
Hardaway
Knox
Kanter
KP

good for a run at 7th or 8th.

EK has to take less or he is out.

call me optimistic.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 09, 2018, 08:09:27 PM
Quote from: Nagel on December 09, 2018, 05:59:36 PM
Kemba( our future signing) is coming in.

Kemba
Hardaway
Knox
Kanter
KP

good for a run at 7th or 8th.

EK has to take less or he is out.

call me optimistic.

No Vonleh?

I'd pay Noah before Enes.
Title: Blow out city
Post by: Kam on December 09, 2018, 08:27:44 PM
Charlotte by 18 in the 2nd Q

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 09, 2018, 08:52:23 PM
Julius Randle with the start today

28, 6 and 5
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 09, 2018, 08:54:11 PM
Mudiay a -6 in first half, playing 2/3 of minutes.  Team a -14.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 09, 2018, 08:55:08 PM
But ready for a kiddie corps 4th quarter again
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 09, 2018, 08:58:48 PM
Sorry.  Call it what it is

FIZDALE being embarrassed at home.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on December 09, 2018, 09:00:51 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 09, 2018, 08:09:27 PM
Quote from: Nagel on December 09, 2018, 05:59:36 PM
Kemba( our future signing) is coming in.

Kemba
Hardaway
Knox
Kanter
KP

good for a run at 7th or 8th.

EK has to take less or he is out.

call me optimistic.

No Vonleh?

I'd pay Noah before Enes.

ok. by me.  money difference would be substantial but Vonleh hasn't proven himself.  he has the rest of the year to do just that.

Kemba clearly wants to come home.

unless Durant wants NY.  I'd happily take him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on December 09, 2018, 09:01:44 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 09, 2018, 08:52:23 PM
Julius Randle with the start today

28, 6 and 5

kid is really good.  he started showing it last year and it continues now.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on December 09, 2018, 09:03:02 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 09, 2018, 08:58:48 PM
Sorry.  Call it what it is

FIZDALE being embarrassed at home.

not just Fitzdale . it's the players.  no defense.,  no pride.  imagine paying to see this crap.

chip?  you have anything positive to say?


am i being too harsh or just a pissed off fan?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 09, 2018, 09:12:52 PM
Get Knox the fuck out already.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 09, 2018, 09:22:37 PM
I guess we've put an end to that Mudiay as starting PG malarky........lol.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 09, 2018, 09:32:01 PM
And KEITH SMART is finally the Knicks coach.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 09, 2018, 09:34:15 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on December 09, 2018, 09:22:37 PM
I guess we've put an end to that Mudiay as starting PG malarky........lol.

I doubt it but we'll see

Entire team roasted to start the third.  Mudy must do better there on Kemba, agreed.
Title: PP#2
Post by: carlos123 on December 09, 2018, 09:49:37 PM
Quote from: Nagel on December 09, 2018, 09:03:02 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 09, 2018, 08:58:48 PM
Sorry.  Call it what it is

FIZDALE being embarrassed at home.

not just Fitzdale . it's the players.  no defense.,  no pride.  imagine paying to see this crap.

chip?  you have anything positive to say?


am i being too harsh or just a pissed off fan?

Us positive pussies didn’t see this game.

(Only some Knick Knox and Knick tilikina).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on December 10, 2018, 01:06:16 AM
Quote from: chipstern on December 09, 2018, 04:24:16 PM
Woke up this morning to double check the box scores, as I was encouraged to see Herzonja had 5 boards in 20+ minutes, and hit 3-4 from trey...a positive sign, as he has a deadly jumper with range, the desultory, up-and-down start to his season notwithstanding.  Then I saw that he had a -14, highest amongst the Knicks.  Wassup wid dat? 

Box scores lie. Mario was terrible against the Nets.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on December 10, 2018, 01:07:41 AM
Quote from: Kam on December 09, 2018, 08:09:27 PM
Quote from: Nagel on December 09, 2018, 05:59:36 PM
Kemba( our future signing) is coming in.

Kemba
Hardaway
Knox
Kanter
KP

good for a run at 7th or 8th.

EK has to take less or he is out.

call me optimistic.

No Vonleh?

I'd pay Noah before Enes.

Can't imagine there's even much debate, here. Enes does some things very well but Vonleh would fit just about any team configuration we have next year. Keeping Kanter only makes sense if one of Mitch or KP is traded AND we surround him with a bunch of defenders. Let Kanter take his double doubles elsewhere (although I'll cheer him on, cause I like him, but he's not a good fit here).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on December 10, 2018, 01:08:09 AM
Btw, Charlotte is a lot better than their record.
Title: tank bowl qualifier match @ CAVS next
Post by: Kam on December 10, 2018, 01:24:16 AM
Big one on the schedule wednesday night in the land of Cleve.  Winner gets to keep playing and a set of steak knives.  Second place is you're fired.
Title: Re: tank bowl qualifier match @ CAVS next
Post by: chipstern on December 10, 2018, 02:11:43 AM
Quote from: Kam on December 10, 2018, 01:24:16 AM
Big one on the schedule wednesday night in the land of Cleve.  Winner gets to keep playing and a set of steak knives.  Second place is you're fired.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/3ov9jPiOE6pbl3cPAc/giphy.gif)

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 10, 2018, 03:08:17 AM
A team trying to secure the #1 draft pick next year will offer Enes more than we should be willing to pony up.

Any chance the Trier hamstring issue is a means to stop the clock onhis NBA time till FA signings become tradable?

Frank had a pretty run in the second half. His D tonight was terrible.

Knox took a hell of a lot of shots.

I think we are nearing the end of the Mario starting experiment.

We need to find a unit that can play D, start them, and build out the bench from there.

We were terribly overmatched in terms of experience and cohesion. That will happen a lot this year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 10, 2018, 05:09:27 AM
Missed the game.
Strange box.
Knix shoot 50% overall and from 3 and lose by 12.
Just 7 FTA's.  CHA made 13 23
Vonleh with 9 assists.
Knox with 25 FG's, 26 Pts & 15 boards.  in 41 mins.
Think they said he was the youngest ever to have a 25 & 10 game.
Franc 7-11 FG but fouled out.
Btw, Mud finished with a -20.

Seems like an interesting, unusual game . . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 10, 2018, 05:14:40 AM
Good to see Tim Frazier has been set free.  I quite like the guy, but ops have been few for him the past couple years.  Last 7 games, he averaged 8 assists and 9 points and 4 boards in 30 mins. 
The guy is feisty and good on the PnR.  Frees up Jrue to play his combo guard game, much like Rondo did last year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 10, 2018, 07:27:52 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 10, 2018, 05:09:27 AM
Missed the game.
Strange box.
Knix shoot 50% overall and from 3 and lose by 12.
Just 7 FTA's.  CHA made 13
Vonleh with 9 assists.
Knox with 25 FG's, 26 Pts & 15 boards.  in 41 mins.
Think they said he was the youngest ever to have a 25 & 10 game.
Franc 7-11 FG but fouled out.
Btw, Mud finished with a -20.

Seems like an interesting, unusual game . . .
Yeah.  Mudiay was with that group that was -16 to start the third quarter.  And never returned.

 Knox should never have been out there at that time.  He is clueless re: team defense

Someone please tell Calipari.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 10, 2018, 07:29:51 AM
Bucks beat Raptors

Yyepppp.  An east contender for sure.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on December 10, 2018, 12:03:14 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 10, 2018, 05:14:40 AM
Good to see Tim Frazier has been set free.  I quite like the guy, but ops have been few for him the past couple years.  Last 7 games, he averaged 8 assists and 9 points and 4 boards in 30 mins. 
The guy is feisty and good on the PnR.  Frees up Jrue to play his combo guard game, much like Rondo did last year.

Might be too slight to play in the playoffs, mind you. Like Trey Burke.

Some types of players are good regular season contributors, but not usable in the playoffs (Kanter, Valunciunas).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 10, 2018, 12:28:57 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on December 10, 2018, 12:03:14 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 10, 2018, 05:14:40 AM
Good to see Tim Frazier has been set free.  I quite like the guy, but ops have been few for him the past couple years.  Last 7 games, he averaged 8 assists and 9 points and 4 boards in 30 mins. 
The guy is feisty and good on the PnR.  Frees up Jrue to play his combo guard game, much like Rondo did last year.

Might be too slight to play in the playoffs, mind you. Like Trey Burke.

Some types of players are good regular season contributors, but not usable in the playoffs (Kanter, Valunciunas).

Kanter only got 18 minutes last night.  Mitchell got 19. 
Vonleh played 30 minutes.  That's 67 C/PF minutes out of 96.
The 29 other "BIG" minutes went to the likes of Kevin Knox.


If KK becomes our small ball 4 (Shawn Marion esque)...  Then Mitchell and Noah are our bench bigs.


There won't even be time for a Kanter.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on December 10, 2018, 02:13:12 PM
I think Knox will have a tough time covering some 4s this season. Maybe next as well? But he's 19, he'll fill out.

KP is going to be mostly a 5. Mitch a full time 5, of a different sort. There will be no minutes for Kanter, and I don't think there are many people who see otherwise. A couple on this forum, sure, but doubtful any at MSG.

I am very curious to see where he ends up. He works very hard, he's an automatic double double, he can't be played in the playoffs because he joined the league 10 years too late (otherwise, he would have been at least Al Jefferson). What's that worth today? Will any upper echelon teams even look at him? Or is he destined to put up numbers for bad teams?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 10, 2018, 02:21:55 PM
Without putting numbers to it, Knicks seek TWO frontcourt starters for next season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 10, 2018, 02:31:06 PM
Fortunately the placeholders, Kanter and Mario, both expire this year. Unfortunately, Vonleh, the only real candidate in our current set expires as well. He will be more expensive this time around.

KP, Mitch, and Knox are candidates depending on how they finish the season and progress over the summer.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 10, 2018, 02:38:29 PM
You know the frontcourt includes the THREE, right?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 10, 2018, 04:01:34 PM
KP Mitch
Vonleh (draft or free agent)
Knox (draft or free agent)
Dotson Trier
Frank Mudiay

Everything else is negotiable
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 10, 2018, 04:24:23 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on December 10, 2018, 12:03:14 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 10, 2018, 05:14:40 AM
Good to see Tim Frazier has been set free.  I quite like the guy, but ops have been few for him the past couple years.  Last 7 games, he averaged 8 assists and 9 points and 4 boards in 30 mins. 
The guy is feisty and good on the PnR.  Frees up Jrue to play his combo guard game, much like Rondo did last year.

Might be too slight to play in the playoffs, mind you. Like Trey Burke.

Frazier actually plays hard on D, but too hard, and fouls overplaying.

NOPe isn't going far as configured.
Recently they saw ETwaun miss potential game winners.
Their bench is weak.
Using Frazier to control pace and operate the offense steadies things and frees up JRue to play hard on both ends.
Seems NO needs to take a chance, which is probably why they gave Frazier a go.

I want to see them with him starting at Point.  He just needs to settle down, not foul manically, not shoot too much, run the offense.
Frazier is a good penetrator and can slip passes into tight spaces.

His creeping age, the fact he's gotten little use the past two years (I thought WASh should have used him much more), and we already have Burke and a PG logjam is why I haven't been touting him lately.  But I think the guy has talent and can be a solid 15+ min backup in this league.
Title: Re: tank bowl qualifier match @ CAVS next
Post by: Kam on December 10, 2018, 06:41:15 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 10, 2018, 02:11:43 AM
Quote from: Kam on December 10, 2018, 01:24:16 AM
Big one on the schedule wednesday night in the land of Cleve.  Winner gets to keep playing and a set of steak knives.  Second place is you're fired.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/3ov9jPiOE6pbl3cPAc/giphy.gif)


Same night, 90 minutes later:  Atlanta @ Dallas      The TreyTL vs My name is Luka (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZt7J0iaUD0)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 10, 2018, 06:48:55 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 10, 2018, 12:28:57 PM

Kanter only got 18 minutes last night.  Mitchell got 19. 
Vonleh played 30 minutes.  That's 67 C/PF minutes out of 96.
The 29 other "BIG" minutes went to the likes of Kevin Knox.

If KK becomes our small ball 4 (Shawn Marion esque)... Then Mitchell and Noah are our bench bigs.

There won't even be time for a Kanter.

“He knows when he puts me at the 4, I’ve got to go out and rebound,” Knox said. “I’m in kind of a big-man position so I’ve got to go down there, I have to fight in the paint. So he’s really been stressing it, and I have to be consistent with it and get eight, nine, 10 every single game. Especially at that 4 position.

“When I rebound more, the whole game revolves around that and I play really well because it helps me start the break and gets the ball moving really well. I just think when I rebound more, I play really well. And talking to Coach, I’ve just got to do it consistently. It’s hard as a rookie, but that’s the next step — having a good game and back it up the next game.”

Asked if he prefers power forward over small forward, Knox added: “It’s a little bit easier because I can rebound more, but that’s not an excuse. I should rebound wherever I’m at. Both positions really, I can impact both.”
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 10, 2018, 07:58:40 PM
Even if we can use him as small ball PF, running KP, Vonleh, and Knox gives you every kind of threat with defense and rebounding. You’d see some Mitch and KP together as well as Knox at PF. Vonleh would have to get it done in 20-24 minutes, which he’s proving he can. We still need one more guy who can really play in the frontcourt to fill out the rotation.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on December 10, 2018, 09:55:41 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 10, 2018, 12:28:57 PM

Kanter only got 18 minutes last night.  Mitchell got 19. 
Vonleh played 30 minutes.  That's 67 C/PF minutes out of 96.
The 29 other "BIG" minutes went to the likes of Kevin Knox.


If KK becomes our small ball 4 (Shawn Marion esque)...  Then Mitchell and Noah are our bench bigs.

There won't even be time for a Kanter.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/59pJXkWbXT88celNegdz5wnKbHkm0YDo4I_otScSasgMT67YHuKoWZPTEnXH0Qlk1taXpUUi4n86tpK7rbncZgWQEQgAlIXqT2D-U9HNyhY6FWRBerP4Ew_sZktEYuT4TS_yvxujPgvYzbpImrW_i-3Jh-nj1f-mB8EGSHJOa1gUiWADynUXJbXJ5cHIm_p8Efv2ZXAfG9k_mZYzwUZzMCLklM84uX-XN8ENe27_h1NH6cDSoKtb9pg0d2qGRFRG8zlZWV4qMLdQm-sidrjv3x3yXwtll2mNyd3qpIjIQB2A6vVW8bmQPABTtSh-KQinFdJ6fD5BrZ_0HGZRwBClPSkv2ncKm_e2WmJTVpMTo6_nNpZQVIH9q8vkhk48EcJBzmVn2lzTT5kgC2uX7Ae4fVoAwW60R28VJycioDQXE0j3NuG8TgnlQkYMYh6PzluCnK_W4b0_fxSSkjOldIRFKjUjn9YcX8DZD8cpUd2994XVhIYf3nh2dExB246M2ucGQUkkbjo8uUGHQQugZ7k8tnVsKiTwHJDi-5SM_kIjo48DLO5e8c-hTp8t5A4Wo_KUmrGy2bAaVYkaW-MdgN5A5IzxzuFCpP2HSjlr4JhZJdTBXRFOTmP3fN8iefUpUtOEhG9AIKCr347bcd2IPQTgq-zo=w1138-h758-no)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 10, 2018, 10:05:42 PM
Ask for Recep at Bosporus
Title: Enes says
Post by: carlos123 on December 10, 2018, 11:08:13 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 10, 2018, 10:05:42 PM
Ask for Recep at Bosporus

Kamster, you know I'd never ask for that SOB.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on December 11, 2018, 10:09:58 AM
Bo - this year's Jae Crowder / Demarre Carroll is Dorian Finney Smith. He's going to get a decent contract this summer.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on December 11, 2018, 10:27:55 AM
Celts played NO last night are were w/o KI, Horford, Hayward, Baynes so my expectations were modest.

Expectations exceeded, Celts young'uns came through huge, and in particular mostly stashed in Maine (Red Claws) Robert Williams showed more than flashes of brilliance, wth boards and blocks galore in his much needed 25 minutes of action.

He blocked AD twice, was a force on the D-end  and more than held his own.

The alley-oop seems to be his shot of choice so far, but if he doesn't oversleep, with time and more schooling, he can be real-deal defensive monster.
Title: KKK [Free Agents, Summer 2019]
Post by: chipstern on December 11, 2018, 10:49:13 AM
Be interesting to see if any of the free agents we are interested in are actually on the move. 

Kawhi, Kevin, Kemba. 

I think they all stay put. 

Nagel projects Kawhi as a done deal to the Clippers. 

Mmmm, I'm not so sure.  He has been a very good fit on the Raptors, who can offer him that fifth year. 

Likewise Kevin and Kemba. 

As for Kemba...well, I think we have half a shot at him, being a New Yorker, and that whole Garden connection and all. 

But he is THE FACE OF THE CHARLOTTE FRANCHISE.  And they are building something, seemingly....finally...

Failing our Big Three, to whom do the Prophets Of Hoops project us offering our cap space to? 

As for the received wisdom which discounts a nightly double double, well, we shall see. 

I do not believe that position-less hoops notwithstanding, KP projects himself as a center, but as a Stretch Four. 

Obviously, he will get minutes at the 4 and the 5 spots. 

But he had a good chemistry with Kanter, though the prevailing narrative is that this is meaningless moving forward. 

We shall see. 

A lot depends on the draft, and if the ghost of Dave DeBusshere bequeaths us the mighty Zion, well, the domino effect would appear to anoint KP as our 5, Zion as the 4 and Knox as the 3, or Zion as the 3 and Knox as the 4. 

Anyway, without hope the spirit must perish. 

Robinson and Vonleh and KP as our sole cadre of bigs seems a touch thin going forward. 
Title: Chicago White Sox--Dave DeBusshere
Post by: chipstern on December 11, 2018, 10:58:18 AM
At the age of 21 & 22, Dave D pitched 102 innings at the MLB level for the White Sox in 1962-1963.

He had a career 2.90 ERA.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 11, 2018, 12:10:28 PM
and at age 24 he became the youngest head coach in NBA history....
Title: Re: K&K&K&K [Free Agents, Summer 2019]
Post by: carlos123 on December 11, 2018, 12:18:25 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 11, 2018, 10:49:13 AM
Be interesting to see if any of the free agents we are interested in are actually on the move. 

Kawhi, Kevin, Kemba. 

I think they all stay put. 

Nagel projects Kawhi as a done deal to the Clippers. 

Mmmm, I'm not so sure.  He has been a very good fit on the Raptors, who can offer him that fifth year. 

Likewise Kevin and Kemba. 

As for Kemba...well, I think we have half a shot at him, being a New Yorker, and that whole Garden connection and all. 

But he is THE FACE OF THE CHARLOTTE FRANCHISE.  And they are building something, seemingly....finally...

Failing our Big Three, to whom do the Prophets Of Hoops project us offering our cap space to? 

As for the received wisdom which discounts a nightly double double, well, we shall see. 

I do not believe that position-less hoops notwithstanding, KP projects himself as a center, but as a Stretch Four. 

Obviously, he will get minutes at the 4 and the 5 spots. 

But he had a good chemistry with Kanter, though the prevailing narrative is that this is meaningless moving forward. 

We shall see. 

A lot depends on the draft, and if the ghost of Dave DeBusshere bequeaths us the mighty Zion, well, the domino effect would appear to anoint KP as our 5, Zion as the 4 and Knox as the 3, or Zion as the 3 and Knox as the 4. 

Anyway, without hope the spirit must perish. 

Robinson and Vonleh and KP as our sole cadre of bigs seems a touch thin going forward.

et tu Chip?

Enes Kanter will be a free agent that we need and can have. Never mind the Kamster.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 11, 2018, 12:47:09 PM
We don't NEED much from a 23-29 win team.

How much did we NEED Kyle O'Quinn?  Or Michael Beasley?  The Forum wanted to keep both.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 11, 2018, 12:55:53 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on December 11, 2018, 10:09:58 AM
Bo - this year's Jae Crowder / Demarre Carroll is Dorian Finney Smith. He's going to get a decent contract this summer.

I've liked what I've seen of Finney-Smith.
Looked good v NYK.
And I've seen DAL two other times.
Good energy, smart player.

Also, Check out Okogie.  He's intriguing as well. Mr Effort type.

DAL v. HOU.  Doncic was having a messy game.  lot of effort, but not getting much done.  Good plays mixed with bad.  But then down 8 with under 3 mins left, Luca popped in a wide open corner 3.  Then did a step back straight on 3 over Capela!  Hit a short midrange shot getting free in the paint.  then another stepback 3 over Capela.  A Doncic 11-0 run (helped that CP3 missed a pair of FT's in the middle), and DAL won.  Crazy.  Doncic really has a knack.  He works hard and tries all the time, and when he gets hot even questionable shots work.  The guy has that special something.  It will be something when he tightens up his game, but the razzle is part of his package.  Having a terrific season.

Title: But WHY Tho?
Post by: Kam on December 11, 2018, 12:56:54 PM
Quote
Fizdale said he would never allow his young prospects — Mitchell Robinson, Kevin Knox and Ntilikina — to try a game in the G League when their minutes were reduced, feeling he’d rather have them under his supervision. Before last season, the Knicks hired Craig Robinson as player developmental director to upgrade the prestige of their G League program.

This is a slap at the Knick organization.  The G-League should be a legit breeding ground for our young talent.
It's Westchester. They can play in G League AND come sit on the bench under his supervision.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 11, 2018, 01:03:51 PM
Also, a different position, but check out Monte Morris.
A #51 pick in 2017, he's having a great season for DEN.
Very solid all-around game, doesn't make mistakes.  Plays hard. 
Really they got lucky, because MM is better than the erratic Wil Barton, and they probably wouldn't have found out without Barton getting injured.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 11, 2018, 01:07:49 PM
Let the guy coach how he sees fit.

And I like all this experimentation.
And without legit starters at some positions, everyone gets a shot.

I've been critical of Trier at PG.  But I could see it paying off down the road.  As Trier could feel more confident handling the ball and making passes, whether or not he ever plays PG again.  Fizz simply said you don't know if Trier can do it unless you give him an op and see how it goes.  This is a non-playoff/development year, so I'm onboard with see what works.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 11, 2018, 01:14:03 PM
WIZ lost another game.
Sato with a decent stat line but finished -23.
Uber netted 23 points on 9-14 FG, along with 7 FT's, 5 boards, 3 steals and a block.  But I guess I should lament just one assist ...

Wall was out (bone spurs) and OP3 left after 7 mins with a thigh booboo.  Oubre played 37 mins filling in for Porter.
Title: Re: But WHY Tho?
Post by: chipstern on December 11, 2018, 01:17:23 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 11, 2018, 12:56:54 PM
Quote
Fizdale said he would never allow his young prospects — Mitchell Robinson, Kevin Knox and Ntilikina — to try a game in the G League when their minutes were reduced, feeling he’d rather have them under his supervision. Before last season, the Knicks hired Craig Robinson as player developmental director to upgrade the prestige of their G League program.

This is a slap at the Knick organization. The G-League should be a legit breeding ground for our young talent.
It's Westchester. They can play in G League AND come sit on the bench under his supervision.

Uh, NO IT ISN'T.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 11, 2018, 01:29:28 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 11, 2018, 01:07:49 PM
Let the guy coach how he sees fit.

And I like all this experimentation.
And without legit starters at some positions, everyone gets a shot.

I've been critical of Trier at PG.  But I could see it paying off down the road.  As Trier could feel more confident handling the ball and making passes, whether or not he ever plays PG again.  Fizz simply said you don't know if Trier can do it unless you give him an op and see how it goes.  This is a non-playoff/development year, so I'm onboard with see what works.

Maybe Fizz has the right approach but he is explaining it the wrong way. 
He speaks of the G League as if it were solely a demotion. 
He has to get his foot out of his mouth out of his head out of his ass.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on December 11, 2018, 02:03:35 PM
I think the Knicks "organization" is beyond insult.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 11, 2018, 02:11:34 PM
The G League produced some of our top guns:

Junior Hardaway, Damyean Dotson,

and previously Langston Galloway
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 11, 2018, 02:24:35 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 11, 2018, 01:29:28 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 11, 2018, 01:07:49 PM
Let the guy coach how he sees fit.

And I like all this experimentation.
And without legit starters at some positions, everyone gets a shot.

I've been critical of Trier at PG.  But I could see it paying off down the road.  As Trier could feel more confident handling the ball and making passes, whether or not he ever plays PG again.  Fizz simply said you don't know if Trier can do it unless you give him an op and see how it goes.  This is a non-playoff/development year, so I'm onboard with see what works.

Maybe Fizz has the right approach but he is explaining it the wrong way. 
He speaks of the G League as if it were solely a demotion. 
He has to get his foot out of his mouth out of his head out of his ass.

Fizz is NOT Demeaning The G-League. 

Hell, Burke recaptured his mojo there. 

His is prioritizing having the likes of Robinson & Knox taking their lumps at the major league level, and practicing every day with the A-Team. 

And next season, unless my man Mario gets his game in gear, one might expect young Hicks to take the next step. 

Knicks and C-Lee have apparently concluded some major minutes in Westchester might facilitate him getting in rhythm.  And punch his ticket out of town to a contender. 

Fizz apparently prefers to use the Pine and the concept of a TIME OUT to double clutch our yute.  Seems to have had a pretty good effect on Dotson and Ntilikina.  And Burke. 
Title: The double-double machine
Post by: carlos123 on December 11, 2018, 03:30:36 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 11, 2018, 12:47:09 PM
We don't NEED much from a 23-29 win team.

How much did we NEED Kyle O'Quinn?  Or Michael Beasley?  The Forum wanted to keep both.

Enes is a much better player than those two. Why you want an automatic double-double out of town? Just make a reasonable offer and see if he accepts.
Title: Luka
Post by: carlos123 on December 11, 2018, 03:35:06 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 11, 2018, 12:55:53 PM

DAL v. HOU.  Doncic was having a messy game.  lot of effort, but not getting much done.  Good plays mixed with bad.  But then down 8 with under 3 mins left, Luca popped in a wide open corner 3.  Then did a step back straight on 3 over Capela!  Hit a short midrange shot getting free in the paint.  then another stepback 3 over Capela.  A Doncic 11-0 run (helped that CP3 missed a pair of FT's in the middle), and DAL won.  Crazy.  Doncic really has a knack.  He works hard and tries all the time, and when he gets hot even questionable shots work.  The guy has that special something.  It will be something when he tightens up his game, but the razzle is part of his package.  Having a terrific season.

DONCIC, that’s the guy I wanted. Pity that ship has sailed!
Title: Re: The double-double machine
Post by: Kam on December 11, 2018, 03:52:51 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 11, 2018, 03:30:36 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 11, 2018, 12:47:09 PM
We don't NEED much from a 23-29 win team.

How much did we NEED Kyle O'Quinn?  Or Michael Beasley?  The Forum wanted to keep both.

Enes is a much better player than those two. Why you want an automatic double-double out of town? Just make a reasonable offer and see if he accepts.

I don't know... i think the value of the "walking double double" is overrated in today's game.

A) With faster space and scoring up there are more possessions and shot attempts taken - so more opportunities to get 10 and 10.
B) He would probably need to average 20 and 15 to make up for the lack of defense
C) Can't shoot threes, or even the standard Kurt Thomas /  David Lee 2-Pt Set shot. 
D) Needs to score off of misses.  Has limited low post game against good defenses.
e) double double in Pt/Rebs is the easiest type of double double to find a replacement for.  He is big and near the rim.  Not an exclusive skill. 
f) He is an "Elite" rebounder on the offensive glass.  Not much else in his game.  Not a slick passer.  Average IQ.  Clueless on D though effortful.

What's that worth?  A Mario Hezonja type deal maybe.  But I wouldn't prioritize Enes this summer and he will probably take an offer before we get around to him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on December 11, 2018, 09:40:41 PM
---While New Orleans is trying to win enough to convince Davis to stay, the rest of the league is ruminating about what it would take to pry Davis away. Such speculation is happening constantly now, but executives around the league see virtually no chance that Davis is traded before the Pelicans can offer him that super-max extension in July. New Orleans, as it should, will do everything it can to keep Davis — and will move on from him only if it absolutely has to.---

Best big in the NBA?

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 11, 2018, 10:09:24 PM
Davis? Probably yeah. Who’s better?

Kam, your breakdown on Kanter is spot on. You might be overvaluing him. Baker money is the most I’d pay.
Title: Re: Luka
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 11, 2018, 10:25:05 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 11, 2018, 03:35:06 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 11, 2018, 12:55:53 PM

DAL v. HOU.  Doncic was having a messy game.  lot of effort, but not getting much done.  Good plays mixed with bad.  But then down 8 with under 3 mins left, Luca popped in a wide open corner 3.  Then did a step back straight on 3 over Capela!  Hit a short midrange shot getting free in the paint.  then another stepback 3 over Capela.  A Doncic 11-0 run (helped that CP3 missed a pair of FT's in the middle), and DAL won.  Crazy.  Doncic really has a knack.  He works hard and tries all the time, and when he gets hot even questionable shots work.  The guy has that special something.  It will be something when he tightens up his game, but the razzle is part of his package.  Having a terrific season.

DONCIC, that’s the guy I wanted. Pity that ship has sailed!

As far as I know we never tried to deal up for him.
Title: Re: The double-double machine
Post by: carlos123 on December 11, 2018, 11:32:49 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 11, 2018, 03:52:51 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 11, 2018, 03:30:36 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 11, 2018, 12:47:09 PM
We don't NEED much from a 23-29 win team.

How much did we NEED Kyle O'Quinn?  Or Michael Beasley?  The Forum wanted to keep both.

Enes is a much better player than those two. Why you want an automatic double-double out of town? Just make a reasonable offer and see if he accepts.

I don't know... i think the value of the "walking double double" is overrated in today's game.

A) With faster space and scoring up there are more possessions and shot attempts taken - so more opportunities to get 10 and 10.
B) He would probably need to average 20 and 15 to make up for the lack of defense
C) Can't shoot threes, or even the standard Kurt Thomas /  David Lee 2-Pt Set shot. 
D) Needs to score off of misses.  Has limited low post game against good defenses.
e) double double in Pt/Rebs is the easiest type of double double to find a replacement for.  He is big and near the rim.  Not an exclusive skill. 
f) He is an "Elite" rebounder on the offensive glass.  Not much else in his game.  Not a slick passer.  Average IQ.  Clueless on D though effortful.

What's that worth?  A Mario Hezonja type deal maybe.  But I wouldn't prioritize Enes this summer and he will probably take an offer before we get around to him.

I actually think the value of the "walking double-double" is underrated. We have to adjust to what we have, not necessarily to what almost everybody else is doing.

and B) a 20-15 average for Kanter is very doable, given enough minutes and continuity.

Quote from: facilitatorn on December 11, 2018, 10:09:24 PM

Kam, your breakdown on Kanter is spot on. You might be overvaluing him. Baker money is the most I’d pay.

Fac, don't be so cheap. You'll regret it.

Title: Re: Luka
Post by: carlos123 on December 11, 2018, 11:34:59 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 11, 2018, 10:25:05 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 11, 2018, 03:35:06 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 11, 2018, 12:55:53 PM

DAL v. HOU.  Doncic was having a messy game.  lot of effort, but not getting much done.  Good plays mixed with bad.  But then down 8 with under 3 mins left, Luca popped in a wide open corner 3.  Then did a step back straight on 3 over Capela!  Hit a short midrange shot getting free in the paint.  then another stepback 3 over Capela.  A Doncic 11-0 run (helped that CP3 missed a pair of FT's in the middle), and DAL won.  Crazy.  Doncic really has a knack.  He works hard and tries all the time, and when he gets hot even questionable shots work.  The guy has that special something.  It will be something when he tightens up his game, but the razzle is part of his package.  Having a terrific season.

DONCIC, that’s the guy I wanted. Pity that ship has sailed!

As far as I know we never tried to deal up for him.

So? We didn't have anything to offer other than KP and that wasn't gonna happen. The ship sailed when our pick was #9.
Title: Re: KKK [Free Agents, Summer 2019]
Post by: thebizneverloses on December 12, 2018, 12:36:26 AM
Quote from: chipstern on December 11, 2018, 10:49:13 AM
Be interesting to see if any of the free agents we are interested in are actually on the move. 

Kawhi, Kevin, Kemba. 

I think they all stay put. 


I think at least one of them bounces. Probably Durant.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on December 12, 2018, 12:37:14 AM
Quote from: Kam on December 11, 2018, 12:47:09 PM
We don't NEED much from a 23-29 win team.

How much did we NEED Kyle O'Quinn?  Or Michael Beasley?  The Forum wanted to keep both.

Excellent point. Forumites fall in love every year with replacement-level players (in the case of Beasley, sub-replacement-value players).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 12, 2018, 01:53:45 AM
I’d much rather have O’Quinn than Kanter. I’d rather have Beas than Kanter and see what we can get out of Kornet. But untradeable Kanter was the price for getting out from under Anthony. So be it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 12, 2018, 05:55:58 AM
Knix might have gotten a bit lucky.
I think we wanted KO'Q back but he wanted to Win elsewhere.
In his place we got Vonleh who is 5 years younger.
Maybe we would have picked up Vonleh anyway, but if KO stayed you lose a roster spot for one of Trier/Dotsun/Mitch.  And maybe fewer mins for Vonleh, if we brought him in.

KOQ has played sparingly for IND.
The two fill-in games in which he got over 12 mins he played quite well.  12 Pts on 6-11 FG / 10 boards 2 of each assists/blocks/steals in
27 mins recently v. ORL.  I saw half that game and O'Quinn the mighty eskimo looked spry.
3rd game of the season he had a 16 & 8 2 blocks and a steal game in 19 mins.

I thought KOQ was a great lockerroom guy and held the team accountable on D and made things friendly and fun.
But our lockerroom seems just fine.  Despite a lot of positional competition, guys seem to root for each other and get along well.  Kanter seems one of the fulcrums of team disposition now.  And Fizz.
Maybe an emphasis on D has sipped a bit.  Mitch certainly tries but goes for fakes and is foul prone.  Vonleh a stout defender but also foul prone at times.  I liked how KOQ would make hard fouls, which send a message.  Now we foul a lot but they're often dopey minor fouls.  Sometimes way out on the floor or away form the ball.  At least our foulers are mostly guys trying to play defense hard (include Franc in that).

Anyway, seems that we didn't need KOQ and neither does IND apparently.  But he's a good solid bench player.  he might have just gone to the wrong team.
Title: Re: Luka
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 12, 2018, 07:15:18 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 11, 2018, 11:34:59 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 11, 2018, 10:25:05 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 11, 2018, 03:35:06 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 11, 2018, 12:55:53 PM

DAL v. HOU.  Doncic was having a messy game.  lot of effort, but not getting much done.  Good plays mixed with bad.  But then down 8 with under 3 mins left, Luca popped in a wide open corner 3.  Then did a step back straight on 3 over Capela!  Hit a short midrange shot getting free in the paint.  then another stepback 3 over Capela.  A Doncic 11-0 run (helped that CP3 missed a pair of FT's in the middle), and DAL won.  Crazy.  Doncic really has a knack.  He works hard and tries all the time, and when he gets hot even questionable shots work.  The guy has that special something.  It will be something when he tightens up his game, but the razzle is part of his package.  Having a terrific season.

DONCIC, that’s the guy I wanted. Pity that ship has sailed!

As far as I know we never tried to deal up for him.

So? We didn't have anything to offer other than KP and that wasn't gonna happen. The ship sailed when our pick was #9.

Right.  I mean....you're not offering Franc for him at that point.

You still aren't.  Folly that you need to own.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 12, 2018, 08:15:43 AM
Re:  O'quinn

Indiana is 17-10.  He got what he wanted.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 12, 2018, 09:03:11 AM
Well, one problem with that scenario is that DAL already had Smith Jr, and ATL wanted Trey.  So neither of them was taking Franc for a chance to draft Doncic.  And I don't think Franc had Top 5 or even Top 9 1st round value after last year.

I'm sure KOQ wants to play.
And be involved in the winning.
Should have gone to DET or NO or WASh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on December 12, 2018, 09:09:56 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 12, 2018, 01:53:45 AM
I’d much rather have O’Quinn than Kanter. I’d rather have Beas than Kanter and see what we can get out of Kornet. But untradeable Kanter was the price for getting out from under Anthony. So be it.

Huh!  Enes does a 20-15 per 36 minutes, a 15-12 in real time. Yes stats matter. OQ is a 6-3 bench warmer. Beas is 13-5  but over 30yo. There is more younger talent on this team than ever this century with a missing piece or two. Yeah, yeah not enough gritty defensive players like Lee, Noah, and Lance hanging on for one more big paycheck?
Title: Re: Luka
Post by: carlos123 on December 12, 2018, 11:06:21 AM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 12, 2018, 07:15:18 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 11, 2018, 11:34:59 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 11, 2018, 10:25:05 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 11, 2018, 03:35:06 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 11, 2018, 12:55:53 PM

DAL v. HOU.  Doncic was having a messy game.  lot of effort, but not getting much done.  Good plays mixed with bad.  But then down 8 with under 3 mins left, Luca popped in a wide open corner 3.  Then did a step back straight on 3 over Capela!  Hit a short midrange shot getting free in the paint.  then another stepback 3 over Capela.  A Doncic 11-0 run (helped that CP3 missed a pair of FT's in the middle), and DAL won.  Crazy.  Doncic really has a knack.  He works hard and tries all the time, and when he gets hot even questionable shots work.  The guy has that special something.  It will be something when he tightens up his game, but the razzle is part of his package.  Having a terrific season.

DONCIC, that’s the guy I wanted. Pity that ship has sailed!

As far as I know we never tried to deal up for him.

So? We didn't have anything to offer other than KP and that wasn't gonna happen. The ship sailed when our pick was #9.

Right.  I mean....you're not offering Franc for him at that point.

You still aren't.  Folly that you need to own.

I’m offering Franc for Doncic in less than a New York minute. Problem is Dallas would laugh off the offer, what a joke!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 12, 2018, 01:21:12 PM
Franc and the 9 for the 3

Many here would not have done that.
Title: Luka
Post by: carlos123 on December 12, 2018, 01:49:36 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 12, 2018, 01:21:12 PM
Franc and the 9 for the 3

Many here would not have done that.

Well, I’m certainly not one of those many. Been a Doncic booster for more than a year before the draft.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 12, 2018, 01:57:13 PM
Yeah, was a move up draft.

Atlanta ended up getting 5 and next year 1st for 3. Suspect it would have taken 9 and next years 1st AND Frank to beat that...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 12, 2018, 02:04:06 PM
The Atlanta 2019 is heavily protect ed.  They still get RJ Barret if at 2.

Meanwhile nbadraft.net update had Knicks with the 6, tabbing Kevin Porter, just after Nets nab Hachimura.
.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 12, 2018, 02:04:46 PM
Heh......

Boston is at 14

Heh

Big payoff.
Title: SmugRat Report [HEH]
Post by: chipstern on December 12, 2018, 04:54:45 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 12, 2018, 02:04:46 PM
Heh......

Boston is at 14

Heh

Big payoff.

Still pulling your pud, huh? 

Be lucky to have any foreskin left. 

Ainge scored a perennial all-star in the making in Tatum.

Avoided getting stuck with psycho-case Fultz. 

And pocketed a paltry #14 pick.

A weak-ass asset in your worthy opinion. 

Guess what? 

Bucks picked Giannis Adetokoubo at #14.

Nuggets picked Michael Porter at #14.

Spurs picked Kawhi Leonard at #15. 

Celtics picked Terry Rozier at #16.

Houston picked Cliff Capela at #25.

Wizards picked Tomas Satoransky at #32.

So yeah, butt plug, a big payoff. 

PS: Oh, by the way Smugrat, the Celtics are currently sitting on the #14, #19, #22, #26 picks in the first round.  How about them apples? Nice set of chips to cash in or barter come the summer of 2019.  So let's hear again about Ainge doesn't measure up to your exacting standards. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 12, 2018, 06:37:26 PM
But Ainge didn’t take Ball.

Kiid is polishing his Ball statue till it glows.

He’s even thinking about taking his Jimmer bust down to make room on his mantle.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 12, 2018, 06:40:58 PM
Ball has his shooting percentage up to .383, right between Timmy and Frank. Tatum is shooting better from 3 than any of that trio do from the field.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 12, 2018, 06:58:49 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 12, 2018, 06:37:26 PM
But Ainge didn’t take Ball.

Kiid is polishing his Ball statue till it glows.

He’s even thinking about taking his Jimmer bust down to make room on his mantle.

Kiid's just a lot smarter than everyone on this board.

We move on. 

PS: Ball & Family made it pretty motherfucking clear they wanted the Lakers.  Hey, Kobe and his agent refused to play for Charlotte.  KP refused to work out for the Sixers.  Of course, Kiid would then wonder why didn't Ainge engage the Lakers.  Celtics engage the Lakers?  COUGH.  When was the last time the Celtics and Lakers engaged in a trade?  For that matter, when was the last time the Celtics and the Knicks engaged in a deal?  Never mind that Lonzo father is a douchenozzle...you think Ainge wanted Father Ball Kibbitzing him and his coach?  Get Fucking REAL.  The only shitgibbon who doesn't think Ainge made a swell deal is our beloved Smugrat. 

PPS: At the #3 pick, Tatum has been a much Much, MUCH More Impactful player than Fultz or Ball, let alone those who came after him--arguably THE MOST IMPACTFUL PLAYER IN THE 2017 DRAFT, with the exception of Lauri Markannen at #7 and Donovan Mitchell at #13...Jarrett Allen at #22 and Kyle Kuzma at #27 (and our own Damyean Dotson at #44) were also significant picks, despite Smugrat's disdain for draft picks out of the Top 3.  The other PGs taken after Fultz and Ball, Fox, Ntilikina and Smith, are all works in progress, our own Frank lagging behind. 

PPPS: Ergo, Ainge gets THE BEST PLAYER IN THE 2017 DRAFT, and a Top 15 #1 pick (stay tuned, the Kings are playing well), and Kiid thinks that deal is something to be mocked.  Meanwhile, Ball is a work in progress, with great size and court vision and good defensive instincts...offensively?  Up and down.  Fultz is an untradeable head case.  Is Ball a generational player?  Sheeeet...BEN SIMMONS, his own up and down jumper and free thown shooting notwithstanding, is a generational player.  Saquon Barkley is a generational player.  Kiid is a generational smartypants. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 12, 2018, 07:01:54 PM
Get to see a true top ten pg tonight
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 12, 2018, 07:03:53 PM
Singe had a list of 5 players
Ball was on it.  Fultz topped it for most of the redraft period.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 12, 2018, 07:08:29 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 12, 2018, 07:03:53 PM
Singe had a list of 5 players
Ball was on it.  Fultz topped it for most of the redraft period.

Yawn. 

And he took Tatum and a #1 pick. 

Get over it, Nathan Detroit. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 12, 2018, 08:44:11 PM
Good game.  Frank showing the nice release.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 12, 2018, 08:53:08 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 12, 2018, 07:08:29 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 12, 2018, 07:03:53 PM
Singe had a list of 5 players
Ball was on it.  Fultz topped it for most of the redraft period.

Yawn. 

And he took Tatum and a #1 pick. 

Get over it, Nathan Detroit.

Missing the whole point of the conversation

Celt fans were crowing about the haul, not just Tatum
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 12, 2018, 08:58:23 PM
Enes actually made a three tonight.  But he looks so awkward on shots outside the deep paint.  He messed up an easy assist for Frank who found him wide open on the free throw line.  He shooting mechanics are sped up as if he is afraid if getting blocked even though he is wide open.  He needs to take a beat ala Durty Kurty and make that shot 2 out of 3 times.   Right now he is more like 0 out of 3.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 12, 2018, 09:12:38 PM
You get the better player + a 1st rounder.
It IS a great haul.

Only catching the 2nd half (form 67all)
Knox looking weak.
Franc pretty good.
Tim & Sexton with weak D.

Well, Knox just hit a big 3 with a minute left and then a jam on the break.  Nice.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 12, 2018, 09:17:26 PM
If you want to see a C shoot 3's, check out Lopez.

He puts up a huge #.  11 so far tonight.

Last game he was sidestepping the close out and shooting 3's (twice).
Then did a step-back 3.
From a 7 footer?
Playing like a wing.

Tonight I saw him fake the corner 3, drive past the closeout and spin around the help defender on the baseline.  It got a little wild and he didn't come close. 

But must be fun to be able to play like an SG and have a green light to make any play/move he wants.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 12, 2018, 09:17:41 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 12, 2018, 09:12:38 PM
You get the better player + a 1st rounder.
It IS a great haul.

Knox looking weak.

Well, Knox just hit a big 3 with a minute left and then a jam on the break.  Nice.

Knox had a big first Q.  He started the game and had ten points after one. 
Scored only 4 more all game until the final minute where he made the three and the slam.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 12, 2018, 09:18:24 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 12, 2018, 09:17:26 PM
If you want to see a C shoot 3's, check out Lopez.


With a salary 1/6 Enes'
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 12, 2018, 09:21:52 PM
Fiz outcoached

Too busy celebrating.
Title: Re: tank bowl qualifier match @ CAVS next
Post by: Kam on December 12, 2018, 09:22:07 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 10, 2018, 02:11:43 AM
Quote from: Kam on December 10, 2018, 01:24:16 AM
Big one on the schedule wednesday night in the land of Cleve.  Winner gets to keep playing and a set of steak knives.  Second place is you're fired.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/3ov9jPiOE6pbl3cPAc/giphy.gif)


What a TANKTASTIC finish!

A perfect L.

The blueprint is set.  It's the ABC's of tanking:

A) We came back from a huge deficit
B) our young players played key roles in the comeback and built confidence
C) we gave a WIN to our heated rivals.

Always be tankin'
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 12, 2018, 09:23:57 PM
Mud was doing well.
But then had two miscues very late.
Oh & well.

I was amazed that last play of 3Q, Tim passed and Franc hit a 3.
Both surprising.
Nwaba was playing good tight D on Tim.  So he passed a last shot!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on December 12, 2018, 09:34:04 PM
cleveland?

excellent loss for the tank squad.  i am nominating myself head cheerleader .

superb all around  effort by Hardaway with a fabulous 6-18 shooting effort by our "elite" scorer  ( someone said that earlier and yet he is shooting .395 for the year)  elite?  can you be elite and shoot under 40%?  just asking.    and ONE dime.   yes ONE dime.  the ultimate team player.

KK a cool -15.  was he guarding anyone?

we have a shot at top 3 if KP doesn't come back.  unfortunately that's not the plan.  short sighted.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 12, 2018, 09:37:52 PM
Kurucs and Nets top Sixers in Philly.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 12, 2018, 10:04:44 PM
Quote from: Nagel on December 12, 2018, 09:34:04 PM


KK a cool -15.  was he guarding anyone?



Go easy on the teenager.  Sexton was also.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 12, 2018, 10:06:16 PM
CAvs without Tristan (playing very well lately), JEarl, Henson.
Love also, but that's equivalent to KZ missing for NY.

CLE also played two guys who just joined te team this week -- one starting.  And Blossomgame in just his 4th NBA game.
Not to mention starting a rook PG (5 turnovers).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on December 12, 2018, 10:10:14 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 12, 2018, 08:53:08 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 12, 2018, 07:08:29 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 12, 2018, 07:03:53 PM
Singe had a list of 5 players
Ball was on it.  Fultz topped it for most of the redraft period.

Yawn. 

And he took Tatum and a #1 pick. 

Get over it, Nathan Detroit.

Missing the whole point of the conversation

Celt fans were crowing about the haul, not just Tatum

Kid you're the only one consistently missing the point.

and you keep on missing.

Markelle Fultz would shrug his shoulders and give a knowing sigh at your misses.  He understands what it is to miss so badly.

Tatum and what looked like and may still be a lottery pick (still got 3/4 of the season left) was always a good trade. It turned out to be a theft rivaled only by the hesits of Bonnie and Clyde Frazier when it was discovered Fultz couldn't shoot for reasons unknown.

I understand you hate the Celts.

But you've let that hatred so cloud what little common sense you may have that your judgements are clsoe to meaningless.


You should accept the fact that Tatum + a 1st rounder for Futlz was a haul.

and let the matter drop,

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on December 12, 2018, 10:13:12 PM
Hugely entertaining game in DC, Celts won a fun game in OT.

OT was a blast as Wall and KI went mano a mano.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on December 12, 2018, 10:21:03 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 12, 2018, 10:04:44 PM
Quote from: Nagel on December 12, 2018, 09:34:04 PM


KK a cool -15.  was he guarding anyone?



Go easy on the teenager.  Sexton was also.

that is easy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 12, 2018, 10:30:08 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on December 12, 2018, 10:10:14 PM
(still got 3/4 of the season left)

2/3
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on December 12, 2018, 10:45:13 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 12, 2018, 10:30:08 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on December 12, 2018, 10:10:14 PM
(still got 3/4 of the season left)

2/3

actually for the team in question (Sac) its about 69%.

And just checked pre-season odds at a couple of places and Sac was among 5-6 teams (Orlando, Phx, Chic) with the longest odds (ie. the expected worst teams).

And even with "good start" new lines still have Sac among bottom 6-10 NBA teams
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 12, 2018, 11:09:59 PM
Sac crushing Minnesota.

Warriors next.

Celts pick...mwah mwah wahhhhh...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 13, 2018, 12:39:03 AM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 12, 2018, 11:09:59 PM
...mwah mwah wahhhhh...

Most intelligible thing you’ve ever posted. It gets right to the core of your philosophical and your psychological underpinnings. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 13, 2018, 01:29:48 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 13, 2018, 12:39:03 AM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 12, 2018, 11:09:59 PM
...mwah mwah wahhhhh...

Most intelligible thing you’ve ever posted. It gets right to the core of your philosophical and your psychological underpinnings.

Like that compassionate American Corey Lean Ass Dowski. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on December 13, 2018, 09:26:50 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 13, 2018, 12:39:03 AM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 12, 2018, 11:09:59 PM
...mwah mwah wahhhhh...

Most intelligible thing you’ve ever posted. It gets right to the core of your philosophical and your psychological underpinnings.

A lot of people here attack Kiid. None as well as Fac, though.
Title: Trier signed to 2 year deal worth 7mil
Post by: Kam on December 13, 2018, 10:58:57 AM
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25525263/new-york-knicks-allonzo-trier-agree-two-year-7m-deal (http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25525263/new-york-knicks-allonzo-trier-agree-two-year-7m-deal)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 13, 2018, 11:04:58 AM
No!!!!!

Not Baker.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on December 13, 2018, 11:52:44 AM
Team option on the second year, too. A smart move.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on December 13, 2018, 12:31:05 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 12, 2018, 02:04:06 PM
The Atlanta 2019 is heavily protect ed.  They still get RJ Barret if at 2.

Meanwhile nbadraft.net update had Knicks with the 6, tabbing Kevin Porter, just after Nets nab Hachimura.
.

Hachimura going 5th overall would be hilarious.

Porter would be solid value at 6. Not sure he's the right fit on a team with Knox or THJr, but he's going to be exciting wherever he goes.

(Reddish might make more sense between those guys, but I don't think there's any other wings in their tier. RJ is better, UK's Johnson and others don't seem to be on the same level).

At 6 Knicks might have a tough decision on Ja Morant or Bol Bol. I'd take Porter or Reddish ahead of either of those guys.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 13, 2018, 01:05:48 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on December 13, 2018, 12:31:05 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 12, 2018, 02:04:06 PM
The Atlanta 2019 is heavily protect ed.  They still get RJ Barret if at 2.

Meanwhile nbadraft.net update had Knicks with the 6, tabbing Kevin Porter, just after Nets nab Hachimura.
.

Hachimura going 5th overall would be hilarious.

Porter would be solid value at 6. Not sure he's the right fit on a team with Knox or THJr, but he's going to be exciting wherever he goes.

(Reddish might make more sense between those guys, but I don't think there's any other wings in their tier. RJ is better, UK's Johnson and others don't seem to be on the same level).

At 6 Knicks might have a tough decision on Ja Morant or Bol Bol. I'd take Porter or Reddish ahead of either of those guys.

Why are the NETS picking before us?  Lottery shenanigans?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 13, 2018, 01:06:30 PM
I would be happy with Bol Bol


two 7 footers who can shoot?  sign me up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 13, 2018, 01:33:49 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on December 13, 2018, 11:52:44 AM
Team option on the second year, too. A smart move.

The only move.

Don't want to commit any of that cap space.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 13, 2018, 02:53:20 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on December 12, 2018, 10:10:14 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 12, 2018, 08:53:08 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 12, 2018, 07:08:29 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 12, 2018, 07:03:53 PM
Singe had a list of 5 players
Ball was on it.  Fultz topped it for most of the redraft period.

Yawn. 

And he took Tatum and a #1 pick. 

Get over it, Nathan Detroit.

Missing the whole point of the conversation

Celt fans were crowing about the haul, not just Tatum

Kid you're the only one consistently missing the point.

and you keep on missing.

Markelle Fultz would shrug his shoulders and give a knowing sigh at your misses. 









Nah

Fultzie:  "Why are you judging my entire future on 33 games?"

And do you really hate my 13.5/6/6 with 2 steals+blk over 36 minutes that much at 20 yrs old?

Heh.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 13, 2018, 02:58:36 PM
Tatum around 17/6.5/2/2

Ball at 11/7/7/2.5

All on winning teams, which is rare for a top 3 after just over 100 games post draft
Title: Capped
Post by: chipstern on December 13, 2018, 03:45:43 PM
The cap space for New York in 2019-20 now projects to be $29.5M after the Allonzo Trier signing ($3.55M cap hit). The room takes into account: 1) All free agent cap holds renounced except for Kristaps Porzingis 2) Waiving the non-guaranteed contract of Lance Thomas 3) Their own first round pick. The projected max for a player with 7-9 years of service like Kyrie Irving is $32.7M and for 10+ years like Kevin Durant $38.15M.
– via ESPN

So now the priority would be getting an expiring for Courtly.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 13, 2018, 03:54:00 PM
Trier can be renounced pre free agency period.  Just has the raise for this year and the '19-'20 contract if we choose to keep him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 13, 2018, 04:01:41 PM
That should be no problem with the way Lee is lighting up the GLeague.

We save about six mil cutting Lance after the season. That moves us from 29.5 mil under to 35.5 mil under. That is easier to pull off than finding a taker for Lee.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 13, 2018, 04:09:27 PM
7.58 mil
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 13, 2018, 04:26:48 PM
7.58 is his salary number. He has a partial guarantee for the minimum, at about 1.7 mil, thus the 6 mil savings. Unfortunately, the world knows we will cut him so the 6 mil has already been factored in to the 29.5 mil space we expect.
Title: Re: Capped
Post by: Kam on December 13, 2018, 04:41:05 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 13, 2018, 03:45:43 PM
The cap space for New York in 2019-20 now projects to be $29.5M after the Allonzo Trier signing ($3.55M cap hit). The room takes into account: 1) All free agent cap holds renounced except for Kristaps Porzingis 2) Waiving the non-guaranteed contract of Lance Thomas 3) Their own first round pick. The projected max for a player with 7-9 years of service like Kyrie Irving is $32.7M and for 10+ years like Kevin Durant $38.15M.
– via ESPN

So now the priority would be getting an expiring for Courtly.

Would you surrender a future pick for the space for a shot at KD?

Or would you punt entirely on this summer's FA's and make a trade to TAKE MORE SALARY on?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on December 13, 2018, 05:02:10 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 13, 2018, 01:06:30 PM
I would be happy with Bol Bol


two 7 footers who can shoot?  sign me up.

Count me as a Bol sceptic.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 13, 2018, 05:06:54 PM
Bol gets plenty of tv time.  Get a good look and report back.
Title: Roster Spot and 2-way deal
Post by: Kam on December 13, 2018, 05:14:00 PM
Couple a things:


Any candidates?
Title: Re: Roster Spot and 2-way deal
Post by: chipstern on December 13, 2018, 05:20:27 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 13, 2018, 05:14:00 PM
Couple a things:

  • We now have an open 2-way player contract spot
  • We don't have to use the open roster spot

Any candidates?

We have PF Isiah Hicks on a two-way. 

Now with the Trier signing, we have one open two-way spot. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 13, 2018, 05:31:51 PM
Yeah.  That's what he fuckin' said.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on December 13, 2018, 05:33:06 PM
I've seen enough of Bol to know that he's a long way from NBA ready.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 13, 2018, 05:40:07 PM
21 and 9.5 not a bad start for his first 9 games.  Toss in 24 blocks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on December 13, 2018, 05:43:24 PM
Even in today's NBA he would be broken in two little pieces.
Title: Re: Roster Spot and 2-way deal
Post by: facilitatorn on December 13, 2018, 05:48:47 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 13, 2018, 05:20:27 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 13, 2018, 05:14:00 PM
Couple a things:

  • We now have an open 2-way player contract spot
  • We don't have to use the open roster spot

Any candidates?

We have PF Isiah Hicks on a two-way. 

Now with the Trier signing, we have one open two-way spot.

Jenkins would be one choice, especially if we want to be sellers from our crop of SGs.

I’d also see if we can maneuver for Cam Oliver as a frontcourt athlete or a viable center with a well rounded skill set. Whatever happened to Daniel Ochefu?

———EDIT———

Ochefu is with the Baby Kings getting 11 ppg, 8 boards, and 1.5 blocks.

Oliver is with Delaware getting 14 ppg, 8 boards, and 2.2 blocks.

We’d probably need to work a GLeague swap to get one into Westchester before promotion. If we don’t two-way Jenkins, he could probably be a piece that facilitates that kind of move.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 13, 2018, 06:09:14 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 13, 2018, 05:31:51 PM
Yeah.  That's what he fuckin' said.

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/3e/a9/2c/3ea92c207b2833c0f2d3d0d7bfa391b2.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 13, 2018, 08:13:10 PM
FUCK YOU JO NOAH!

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/3e/a9/2c/3ea92c207b2833c0f2d3d0d7bfa391b2.jpg)

BITCH ASS KNICK FAN
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 13, 2018, 08:23:49 PM
Baker can now try to outscore Jimmer in the CBA, mostly on Dolan’s dime.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 13, 2018, 08:31:06 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 13, 2018, 08:23:49 PM
Baker can now try to outscore Jimmer in the CBA, mostly on Dolan’s dime.

Thanks to Bo i now know how unlikely it is that RB plays in the CBA.

There's only 38 positions open for grabs across 19 teams.

You need to be a big-time scorer or else you will be cut and your money isn't guaranteed.

Ron's done with pro ball.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 13, 2018, 09:26:55 PM
Australia?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 13, 2018, 10:02:19 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 13, 2018, 09:26:55 PM
Australia?

Aye that's more his speed!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUiUXGj_KC8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUiUXGj_KC8)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 13, 2018, 10:31:13 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 13, 2018, 08:31:06 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 13, 2018, 08:23:49 PM
Baker can now try to outscore Jimmer in the CBA, mostly on Dolan’s dime.

Thanks to Bo i now know how unlikely it is that RB plays in the CBA.

There's only 38 positions open for grabs across 19 teams.

You need to be a big-time scorer or else you will be cut and your money isn't guaranteed.

Ron's done with pro ball.

Surely Baker is Phoenix bound
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 13, 2018, 10:45:51 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 13, 2018, 10:31:13 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 13, 2018, 08:31:06 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 13, 2018, 08:23:49 PM
Baker can now try to outscore Jimmer in the CBA, mostly on Dolan’s dime.

Thanks to Bo i now know how unlikely it is that RB plays in the CBA.

There's only 38 positions open for grabs across 19 teams.

You need to be a big-time scorer or else you will be cut and your money isn't guaranteed.

Ron's done with pro ball.

Surely Baker is Phoenix bound

They can do better.
Title: Not bad
Post by: Kam on December 13, 2018, 10:50:18 PM
Mitch and Kevin are tied - ranked 8th in RPG for Rookies

Knox is ranked 10th in PPG.  Trier is 7th.

Two rookies in Top 10 Points and Rebs.
Title: Re: Not bad
Post by: facilitatorn on December 13, 2018, 11:46:17 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 13, 2018, 10:50:18 PM
Mitch and Kevin are tied - ranked 8th in RPG for Rookies

Knox is ranked 10th in PPG.  Trier is 7th.

Two rookies in Top 10 Points and Rebs.

Here’s to growth & development!
Title: Re: Not bad
Post by: Kam on December 13, 2018, 11:49:32 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 13, 2018, 11:46:17 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 13, 2018, 10:50:18 PM
Mitch and Kevin are tied - ranked 8th in RPG for Rookies

Knox is ranked 10th in PPG.  Trier is 7th.

Two rookies in Top 10 Points and Rebs.

Here’s to growth & development!

Dilly Dilly!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 13, 2018, 11:58:28 PM
I bet Trier’s hamstring is feeling much better now.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 14, 2018, 02:47:58 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 13, 2018, 11:58:28 PM
I bet Trier’s hamstring is feeling much better now.

HAHAHA
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 14, 2018, 04:02:46 AM
Some team will be willing to give Baker a minimum deal.  He already pocketed nearly $5M from NYK this year.  He's a hard-worker, low maintenance, knows the NBA, is in shape.  Lotta teams have weak benches. And injuries are an on-going thing.  DET, NOP, OKC, WAS, etc all need bench depth.  Plus a weak team like ATL and PHX might want to give Baker a try to see if he fits long term.  That's a half dozen possible spots off the top of my head.

And there are pro-leagues all over the world.
Turkey, Italy, France are highish level.
And much more team-oriented than China, where a Ron Baker could do well.
Lesser leagues: Russia, Philippines, Japan, Israel, Greece, Slovenia.
Venezuela probably has gotten too unsafe and out of money.
Probably other leagues such as Estonia, Lithuania, Poland and wherever. 

The point being that there are pro jobs all around the world.
But I don't think that the NBA is done with Baker or vice versa.
If he hadn't gotten injured last year, NYK might have stuck with him and not taken on so many other Sg's.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 14, 2018, 04:09:07 AM
Boylen and Jabari don’t mix. Despite a good year in counting stats, he’s now out of the rotation.

Does Chicago want a near all star who is finally earning his salary by stepping into an Alfa role?

Hardaway & Thomas for Parker and Felicio

Carter Lauri Hardaway Lavine Dunn with the cost of Hardaway somewhat offset by not having to pay Felicio.

If we turned down Parker’s option, we save 11 mil next summer putting us 40 mil under the cap.

In the meantime,

Kanter Mitch Kornet
Vonleh Felicio KP
Knox Parker Hezonja
Dotson Trier Lee
Mudiay Frank Burke

With these guys sticking around

Mitch Felicio
KP
Knox
Dotson Trier Lee
Frank

if we miss out on a Max FA we like, we can alternatively keep Vonleh and Mudiay, get an impactful but cheaper FA and kill in the draft.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 14, 2018, 02:15:19 PM
Hardaway is better this year. Plays hard. More consistent scorer.

But I doubt anyone here would argue that he's a star or a high impact ballplayer.

Lot of games like the one in Cleveland, if we had one driven go-to player (let's say there are maybe 2 dozen of those guys in the NBA), the game is ours. But that’s something we obviously don’t have. Timmy was insignificant in the last few minutes.

That's one reason why it's just way more fun to see what the other guys can come up with. I had no idea about Mudiay's grit and aggression. Interesting to see someone developing before your eyes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 14, 2018, 02:17:29 PM
Maybe that's not quite right. Hardaway has been an impact player at times.

Just not the right times.

By the way, Fuck Noah.
Title: Facil
Post by: chipstern on December 14, 2018, 02:23:31 PM
Not to be a killjoy.

Yes, cap space, I get it. 

Durant is not coming.  Neither is Kawhi.  Nor Kemba.

Yes, I get the cap space aspect of your permutations. 

However, Parker is on record as being rather desultory, regarding defense. 

Okay, we drop him come next summer. 

Cap space.

In the meantime?

Chemistry?

Down the ceramic device. 

Everyone took note of Timmy's offensive inefficiency.

What about the charges he took?  Among other things. 

Yes, thins out the herd at SG and saves cap space. 

Still, not much of a message to potential free agents as to their potential shelf life in NYC. 

Anyway, kiljoy I am. 

Interesting deal. 

Still...

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 14, 2018, 02:24:14 PM
Quote from: elephant on December 14, 2018, 02:17:29 PM
Maybe that's not quite right. Hardaway has been an impact player at times.

Just not the right times.

By the way, Fuck Noah.

Amen.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on December 14, 2018, 02:28:35 PM
Praise for Perry: https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamzagoria/2018/12/14/knicks-gm-perry-makes-latest-shrewd-move-by-signing-allonzo-trier/#75fd38326730 (https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamzagoria/2018/12/14/knicks-gm-perry-makes-latest-shrewd-move-by-signing-allonzo-trier/#75fd38326730)
Title: Noah
Post by: carlos123 on December 14, 2018, 03:11:23 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 14, 2018, 02:24:14 PM
Quote from: elephant on December 14, 2018, 02:17:29 PM
Maybe that's not quite right. Hardaway has been an impact player at times.

Just not the right times.

By the way, Fuck Noah.

Amen.

Why would Noah want to help the Knicks? It’s not like he was treated with respect over here.
Title: Re: Noah
Post by: Kam on December 14, 2018, 03:19:56 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 14, 2018, 03:11:23 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 14, 2018, 02:24:14 PM
Quote from: elephant on December 14, 2018, 02:17:29 PM
Maybe that's not quite right. Hardaway has been an impact player at times.

Just not the right times.

By the way, Fuck Noah.

Amen.

Why would Noah want to help the Knicks? It’s not like he was treated with respect over here.

We were paying him to help the Knicks and he was partying and getting suspended.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 14, 2018, 04:02:49 PM
I''m so mad at Joakim Noah i'm ready to trade Noah Vonleh for Houston's #1
Title: Re: Noah
Post by: carlos123 on December 14, 2018, 04:50:30 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 14, 2018, 03:19:56 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 14, 2018, 03:11:23 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 14, 2018, 02:24:14 PM
Quote from: elephant on December 14, 2018, 02:17:29 PM
Maybe that's not quite right. Hardaway has been an impact player at times.

Just not the right times.

By the way, Fuck Noah.

Amen.

Why would Noah want to help the Knicks? It’s not like he was treated with respect over here.

We were paying him to help the Knicks and he was partying and getting suspended.

... after being discarded by stoopid Jeff et all.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on December 14, 2018, 05:50:03 PM
Another must lose but develop in the mean time. A lot of depth at the swing, KP and a #1 would be perfect for next year's run. Difficult not to like this version despite the tanking. No divas or overpriced has beens.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on December 14, 2018, 07:52:19 PM
top ten tanks in the world ( minus Knicks of course)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDgGxJWfALE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDgGxJWfALE)

how is  deadeye doing so far?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on December 14, 2018, 08:41:28 PM
22 minutes and ZERO dimes.

"elite" was that you bo?  you said that?  does a .393 shooting % define elite.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on December 14, 2018, 09:26:14 PM
fucking up an important loss?

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 14, 2018, 09:32:03 PM
Quote from: Nagel on December 14, 2018, 08:41:28 PM
22 minutes and ZERO dimes.



Oubre?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 14, 2018, 09:39:23 PM
When you lose 5 in a row you can afford a feel-good come from behind win against a .500 team on the road.
Development requires winning on occasion to stave off bad habits and acceptance of losing.  No learned helplessness.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 14, 2018, 09:57:44 PM
Quote from: Nagel on December 14, 2018, 08:41:28 PM
22 minutes and ZERO dimes.
"elite" was that you bo?  you said that?  does a .393 shooting % define elite.

Uh, I was mockingly quoting kiid ....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 14, 2018, 09:59:09 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 14, 2018, 09:32:03 PM
Quote from: Nagel on December 14, 2018, 08:41:28 PM
22 minutes and ZERO dimes.
Oubre?

4 games after the Knick game Uber averaged 20 Points and 6 boards on close to 50% shooting.  With steals.  Been playing real well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 14, 2018, 10:03:34 PM
Kornet, Vonleh, and Knox make an excellent improvement to the starting and closing frontcourt.

Mario did nicely with his cameo.

Lee is slowly dialing it in.

Frank & Mitch get some time to hit the buffet and the weight room and go back over a ton of film.

Mudiay has got to feel really good about this one.

With the free throws we were missing, I thought this was going to be another night for the tank.

I enjoyed the broadcast cutaways to Jordan throughout the overtime.

Vonleh definitely remembers which team drafted and shipped him.

Knox might be able to sustain a reasonable level of play while getting his legs. Imagine that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 14, 2018, 10:05:31 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 14, 2018, 09:59:09 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 14, 2018, 09:32:03 PM
Quote from: Nagel on December 14, 2018, 08:41:28 PM
22 minutes and ZERO dimes.
Oubre?

4 games after the Knick game Uber averaged 20 Points and 6 boards on close to 50% shooting.  With steals.  Been playing real well.

Timmy was the dimeless wonder. He stretched that goose egg over 34 minutes by the time All was said and done.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 14, 2018, 10:08:38 PM
Yeah

3 per game guy.

Not so bad.

Add Hachimura to this group and it gets interesting.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 14, 2018, 10:10:47 PM
I tuned in Knix up 1 with 4 mins left 104-103, after some crazy huge comeback.  It was on TV here too, so I didn't have to watch on the computer and could really see what is going on.
So I was rooting for OT all the way.  Just to see more game.

I thought Vonleh played great the 9 mins I saw.
He was bounding tough, driving through people, faking a 3 and then crunching a little fool on a screen.  Just looks confident.
Speaking of, is that Mud's twin brother out there?  He looks so much more confident.  Mud has learned not to always go to the rim where he doesn't finish that well on layups, but bump a guy and then shoot a short shot.  Adds more uncertainty for the defender.  And Mud has been able to free himself up with that little bump.

Kemba played awful the part I saw.
Batum looked good, despite playing in slow motion.
Late in OT Lamb got the ball down 5 wide open straight on and didn't even look at the basket, just passed.  I guess 1-8 sapped his confidence.

Refs let the guys play.
Vonleh bowled over batum .. no call.
Kemba mugged Mud on a fats break ... no call.
Actually I liked that no call, but you almost never see that much contact in the NBA without a whistle.

Anyway, fun game.
Mud, Vonleh and Chop Suey the heroes.
Wow!
(Knox was the weak link last 9 mins ...)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 14, 2018, 10:15:04 PM
Sounds like Ariza to WASH and Uber to MEMf . . .

developing.

Quote
The Washington Wizards were in advanced talks Friday night on a three-team deal in which they would acquire Phoenix Suns forward Trevor Ariza, league sources told ESPN.

Kelly Oubre would be dealt to the Grizzlies with Austin Rivers and two Memphis role players going to Suns, league sources told ESPN.

So the dysfunctional WIZ fall to 11-18 v. the Nets and think that bringing in a 33 year old Ariza for a 22 year old Uber is a smart move.
OOps, he turned 23 a few days ago.

I gte that their payroll is a disaster, which has them nervous about paying Uber-K.  And it's not to get rid of Awful Rivers, though he's an ending deal.  But this is desperation.  I guess Ariza in the adult/Paul Pierce role.  But he's ending and they won't re-sign.  So why not see what they can do with Oubre in the Summer.

Unclear what Memf is giving up, but looking like a nice move for them.
Uber to replace the always gimpy Chandler Parsons.
Conley -    - Uber - Jackson - Gasol
They really need an SG.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on December 14, 2018, 10:28:36 PM
another useless win.  damn.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 14, 2018, 10:37:39 PM
Oubre traded - imagine that

Wiz also deal Rivers, get ARIZA.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 14, 2018, 11:02:21 PM
Quote from: Nagel on December 14, 2018, 10:28:36 PM
another useless win.  damn.

There’s a good amount of room between us and the team above us. We can afford to win occasionally.

I think Washington wants to get a decent run out of Wall and Beal and figure the rest out later.

Memphis is the clear winner despite having to take on Rivers. The price of acquiring talent is sometimes you drag along dreck as part of the deal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 14, 2018, 11:27:38 PM
Funny stuff -

Ariza deal now off because Suns thought they were getting Dillon Brooks, not Marshon.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 14, 2018, 11:28:40 PM
Rivers was going to the Suns, by the way.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 15, 2018, 02:09:24 AM
Probably helped tip them toward bowing out.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 15, 2018, 03:11:10 AM
Funny stuff.
WASH front office can't even communicate to other teams properly.

Hey I have trouble knowing who's on MEmf as well.  I was watching an ATL game last week and kept having to figure out who was who.  That guy running around setting 5 screens per play?  Dedmon.  Beefy guy with some burst? Omari Spellman ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 15, 2018, 03:29:40 AM
The reason Wiz are trading Oubre is because he's due for a good payday and they can't afford it because they are paying 3rd string C Mahinmi $17M, and none of their stars is earning their bloated paychecks (Wall bouncing to ~$40M next year!).

Also, unless Porter can cover the 4 full-time, Oubre won't be a starter.  WIZ not in a position to invest $12M in a 6th Man, thanks to Ernie's bad math skills.

Definitely some teams that will want Uber as a 23 year old starter.  I didn't realize how random and iffy MEMf's wings were.  Lotta role players there.

About the only player kiid and I both like is oddly enough Lonzo Ball.
Kiid tends to like erratic chuckers; Bo prefers defenders and more all-around players.
I notice that LaVert pushed his way ahead of Tangelo.  Then after he got injured, Tangelo was supplanted by Dimwilly.  After the Knick game I tuned into the end of the Nets beating the Wazoos, and there was Tangelo nailed to the pine for the last 4 mins as Dinwiddie ran the show.  Might want to ask yourself why  that was?  T'angelo 3-12 FG & 5 TO's.  Dinwiddie 11FT's; 27 Pts.  and since nets just committed to Spencer D long-term and LaVert looks like a long-term G for the Nets, you have to wonder how long Tangelo will be there.  Though I guess any of them could be traded.

Au Revoir used to be a kiid favorite as well.  Not only was he a lockerroom nuisance, but erratic and never expanded his game. 
39 / 30 / 56 shooting splits this year.  Seems like his career is winding down, but he's just 26.  Maybe he can light it up in China(?)  Actually another team or two will kick the tires on him, but he was never worth the contract that his Dad gave him, paying him $12.5M this year.  His main value right now is as an ending deal. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 15, 2018, 05:18:14 AM
Quote from: Nagel on December 14, 2018, 10:28:36 PM
another useless win.  damn.

another useless post
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 15, 2018, 05:51:33 AM
WaPo:
Quote
Luka Doncic has already changed an awful lot for the Mavericks, but he’s arguably making his biggest impact late in games. Dallas was nothing short of a late-game train wreck in 2017-18, posting the NBA’s worst record (12-38) and worst net rating (minus-27.4) in clutch situations. With then-rookie guard Dennis Smith Jr. getting his feet wet and a roster lacking in initiators and playmakers, the Mavericks’ late-game struggles were somewhat understandable, even if they were unbearable for fans.

This season has been a totally different story: Dallas is 7-5 in clutch games. And with a plus-12.3 net rating that ranks sixth in the league, the Mavericks currently enjoy the biggest year-over-year improvement in clutch performance. Doncic, who recently lit up the Rockets with a personal 11-0 run in the fourth quarter, has been a major driver of the turnaround. The Slovenian rookie is 14 for 22 from the field in clutch situations, tying him with Indiana’s Victor Oladipo for the best field goal percentage among players with at least 20 attempts.

While Doncic’s “Hero-ball” step-back threes get all the attention, don’t overlook the secondary benefits of his confidence and craftiness as a lead attacker. With Doncic on the court, auxiliary options including Harrison Barnes, DeAndre Jordan and Smith are able to settle into supporting roles that are more suited to their skill sets, thereby leading to a healthier balance for the Dallas offense.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 15, 2018, 05:54:42 AM
On the flipside:

Quote
Josh Jackson, the fourth pick in 2017, has come by those ugly statistical rankings honestly: He’s registered more turnovers than assists in both of his NBA seasons; he’s a below-average rebounder for a 6-foot-8 athlete; and he’s proved to be one of the worst shooters in the league. Among players with at least 200 shot attempts this year, he has the third-lowest true shooting percentage, topping only the New York Knicks’ Kevin Knox and Mario Hezonja. Perhaps the only good news for the Suns, who have the league’s worst record at 4-23, is that Jackson has emerged as a powerful tanking weapon.

Draft analysts viewed Jackson as an NBA-ready wing who could guard multiple positions and help compensate for his lack of shooting with persistent energy. That profile simply hasn’t come to fruition. Jackson hasn’t just looked bad compared to his fellow top-five picks, he’s looked bad compared to his entire class. Of the 53 players selected in the 2017 draft to appear in an NBA game, Jackson ranks dead last with minus-1.9 career win shares. Out of 449 players in ESPN’s real plus-minus database, which tracks a player’s impact on his team’s performance, Jackson ranks 441st.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 15, 2018, 06:15:21 AM
If anyone is wondering why PHX is so bad:

Quote
The list of draft mistakes made by former Phoenix Suns general manager Ryan McDonough, who was fired just before the season started, is long. Phoenix has already given up on recent lottery picks Alex Len and Marquese Chriss; Dragan Bender, the fourth pick in 2016, is barely seeing the court this season.

Josh Jax is athletic but struggling.  I've seen a couple good games from him though, where he does bring energy and defense.

Booker of course was a big time hit.  Funny, as it was the one draft where they were picking low -- #13.  Ayton looks good, but needs work on D.   But far too many misses, especially among Bigs.
They also did that weird thing where they had too many PG's (Dragic, Bled, IT) and wound up with none.

I'm not sure what happened with Len.  Initially he looked like a fairly mobile giant.  But his game didn't progress, the NBA changed, and he started to look lumbering.  At least Len is on a very reasonable $4M contract now for ATL.  Somehow he's shooting 56% on the Road and just 40% in 12 Home games.  You're 7'1" -- how do you shoot 40%?
Sometimes his motor seems low, but maybe he's just not focused enough.

You have to wonder about PHX player development.  But maybe it's just on the players themselves. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 15, 2018, 10:10:59 AM
Latest on that trade -

Memphis didn't want to lose Dillon Brooks JUST TO GET OUBRE.

High praise for KO.

Heh.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on December 15, 2018, 10:40:45 AM
With Celts bigs (Baynes Horford) being down over the past week or so, some minutes have opened for Robert "Time Lord" Williams, and he has been making the most of it.

So far his offensive contribution is setting picks and the alley-oop. He doesn't have a shot per se, but he has a real knack for boards and blocks and has been a blast to watch on the D end and is making his presence more than felt in the paint.

He is about as raw as rookies come, but there is a lot of talent there and hopefully Coach Brad can bring it out.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 15, 2018, 11:17:30 AM
NBA = National Basketball Accounting:

Uber will be an RFA and WASH let it be known they won't pay what it takes.  Why lose a good role player to get a rental, a guy you can pick up in free agency?   If Uber becomes too expensive, Memf risks losing Dillon and Uber.  Griz not in a hurry and need to keep their salary in check.

Translation: Griz wanted Uber, just not at any price.  Unsure what the going rate will be, they decided to sit/wait it out and keep a role player they like.


Knick game (post-replay):

- Loved the play where Kemba decided the loose ball was his.

- The play where Vonleh shoves Batum out of the way and scores was pivotal.   If an off. foul on Vonleh (er, which it looked like), Knix would be down 4 around the one minute mark.  Down 2, they brought it to OT.

- That Hornets court is pretty wild.  I like the honeycomb paint.  The teal-purple spread is a bit much.  Also, those teal sweatsuits are kind of odd. 

- Knox had a very good 1st half
- Mud was really feeling it all game.
- Tim was silent
- Zeller kicked ass
- Batum reminded me why I used to say he was the next Grant Hill (apparently including injuries sapping his powers for years).  He really kept the ball moving and had some nice passes.  And his shot was on.
- Monk had some nice dishes.  Also makes some dumb plays.  Young.

- Hornets are a team of role players.
But it's not adding up to something greater.
While the Knix went on a big run (20-5 or whatever), Hornytoads were content to launch 3's.  Didn't drive.  Didn't get FT's (all game).  There 3's were clanky; Lamb lost all confidence in his shot.  And they rolled over.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on December 15, 2018, 11:27:18 AM
Quote from: chipstern on December 15, 2018, 05:18:14 AM
Quote from: Nagel on December 14, 2018, 10:28:36 PM
another useless win.  damn.

another useless post

I don’t think so.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 15, 2018, 11:33:24 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 15, 2018, 11:27:18 AM
Quote from: chipstern on December 15, 2018, 05:18:14 AM
Quote from: Nagel on December 14, 2018, 10:28:36 PM
another useless win.  damn.

another useless post

I don’t think so.

TankU2
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 15, 2018, 11:51:06 AM
Clearly Hornets ignored Monk, to their detriment.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 15, 2018, 12:55:39 PM
I also thought they should have inserted Monk.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 15, 2018, 01:18:53 PM
Monk needs to toughen up. We broke him well before crunch time.

Trade seems back on without Memphis as middleman. Phoenix sends Ariza for Oubre and Rivers.

A simple case of Memphis having too many Brooks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 15, 2018, 02:29:15 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 15, 2018, 01:18:53 PM
Monk needs to toughen up. We broke him well before crunch time.

Trade seems back on without Memphis as middleman. Phoenix sends Ariza for Oubre and Rivers.

A simple case of Memphis having too many Brooks.

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMTc3MTA5NjA3MF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTgwNDk1NDc3MjE@._V1_.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 15, 2018, 03:08:12 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 15, 2018, 01:18:53 PM
Monk needs to toughen up. We broke him well before crunch time.

Trade seems back on without Memphis as middleman. Phoenix sends Ariza for Oubre and Rivers.

A simple case of Memphis having too many Brooks.

And Washington seeing the minimal on court value of Oubre...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 15, 2018, 03:12:12 PM
But there surely has to be more to the deal unless PHX reall wants to overpay KO in 2019 and beyond.

Maybe they do.... feeling it is tough to get players to go there......

We'll see..  But I'd expect pick(s) also included somehow.

I do notice Knicks have space and you have not put Oubre to NY in play... .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 15, 2018, 03:18:35 PM
Trade opens up a Wiz roster spot for Ronnie Baker.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 15, 2018, 03:26:15 PM
Ernie's been abysmal for some time.
Hmm, we have chemistry issues ... let's bring in Dwight and Rivers.

Reportedly many teams wanted Ariza.
PHX could've had KCP.  And whatever else was offered.
They chose Uber.
Young athletic, fits in with Booker and Ayton's time frame.
They can wait a year or two while he learns to be a starter.
Title: Mudiay
Post by: chipstern on December 15, 2018, 03:29:41 PM
So proud of Emmanuel.

Fizz promised, we're going to get you right, and clearly Mudiay took it to heart, playing with confidence and aggression, showing up to camp in great shape.  How did BoD put it, was that Mudiay's Twin Brother out there? 

Too bad we won a lose-able game as per Nagel and Carlos. 

We Suck

WE SUCK

We have no talent, get rid of them all

Oh, fuck, we won.   

Trenchant analysis from Clipper Jane, with a high five from his enabler Pau Pendejo. 

My bad. 

DON'T GO KNICKS. 

There...better? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 15, 2018, 03:31:53 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 15, 2018, 11:33:24 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 15, 2018, 11:27:18 AM
Quote from: chipstern on December 15, 2018, 05:18:14 AM
Quote from: Nagel on December 14, 2018, 10:28:36 PM
another useless win.  damn.

another useless post

I don’t think so.

TankU2

Fizz can't lose every game or he will lose the team.
Players need to feel the sun shining on them after a win.
We lost five straight and had a fun comeback victory on the road in overtime.
Mudiay building his trade value.
Knox now a 20ppg scorer of late
We beat MJ
Not useless at all.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on December 15, 2018, 04:06:14 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 15, 2018, 11:33:24 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 15, 2018, 11:27:18 AM
Quote from: chipstern on December 15, 2018, 05:18:14 AM
Quote from: Nagel on December 14, 2018, 10:28:36 PM
another useless win.  damn.

another useless post

I don’t think so.

TankU2

Wrong on that one too, as I switched to PP awhile back. My point is that Nagel’s posts are not useless as you pound over and over every time he has something to say. GO NAGEL!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 15, 2018, 05:16:04 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 15, 2018, 04:06:14 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 15, 2018, 11:33:24 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 15, 2018, 11:27:18 AM
Quote from: chipstern on December 15, 2018, 05:18:14 AM
Quote from: Nagel on December 14, 2018, 10:28:36 PM
another useless win.  damn.

another useless post



I don’t think so.

TankU2

Wrong on that one too, as I switched to PP awhile back. My point is that Nagel’s posts are not useless as you pound over and over every time he has something to say. GO NAGEL!

Johnny
One
Note
Title: Knox last three games
Post by: Kam on December 15, 2018, 05:27:13 PM
avg 22 and 8 and 1 block

Needs to up the assist rate but other than that.. he is looking more like the player we hoped for

read: Big Time Scorer

Effortless
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on December 15, 2018, 05:28:32 PM
---Mudiay building his trade value.---

For a burnt out bench warmer perhaps? Too young and talented for Dolan Knicks. KK and Mud for Mello and Noah? What part of rebuild year is not understood?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 15, 2018, 05:55:54 PM
Phoenix chose Oubre over handing anything to the Lakers, if you've been keeping up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 15, 2018, 06:12:14 PM
Quote from: luee on December 15, 2018, 05:28:32 PM
---Mudiay building his trade value.---

For a burnt out bench warmer perhaps? Too young and talented for Dolan Knicks. KK and Mud for Mello and Noah? What part of rebuild year is not understood?

If we are all in for KD we should be trading guys we are going to renounce anyway. 
If he plays well enough maybe extract a late #1 or a couple #2s from a team looking to make the playoffs that needs a PG.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 15, 2018, 06:14:10 PM
The Lakers got nothing for Julius Randle.  He was renounced.  He's starting for the Pelicans now.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 15, 2018, 06:42:25 PM
Re:  renouncing

Isn't there a chance we would know on KD before the renounce date?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 15, 2018, 07:46:16 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 15, 2018, 06:14:10 PM
The Lakers got nothing for Julius Randle.  He was renounced.  He's starting for the Pelicans now.

Yeah that was a weird case.  Lakers needed every buck and had lots of talent.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 15, 2018, 08:11:28 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 15, 2018, 06:42:25 PM
Re:  renouncing

Isn't there a chance we would know on KD before the renounce date?

It seems like you can renounce players or tender QOs during the signing moratorium during which you can negotiate with but not actually sign FAs.

In theory you could reach an agreement with KD or Kemba or someone and have a few days to clear space by cutting ties and avoiding cap holds. The agreement would not be binding so either side could back out, but the team or agent that did would we tarnished by it somewhat.

Alternatively if all our big targets chose to stay put or sign elsewhere early in the moratorium, we’d have time to render QO’s before our guys could sign elsewhere if that’s our plan B. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 15, 2018, 08:13:17 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 15, 2018, 05:55:54 PM
Phoenix chose Oubre over handing anything to the Lakers, if you've been keeping up.

The Suns aren't on the Lake/LeBJ timeframe.
I think they just preferred Oubre to KCP.
Uber is aggressive, KCP more in the Courtly mold.
Both would need to be re-signed.

If I were PHX, I'd try to move Ariza for someone under contract and/or a pick.  Also I don't see the rush.  Saturday is the first day Ariza (and many others) could be traded.  I'm sure they've been listening to offers for a couple weeks.  But what's the need to make the first deal?
 
 I assume they just liked Uber-K.
And/or their Rent-Ariza offers weren't that great (not so easy to match $15M when Suns want yute -- which is where AwfulRivers ending $12M  came in).

In any case, a core of Booker-Oubre-Bridges-Ayton is super young but needs a PG badly.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 15, 2018, 08:27:46 PM
KCP wouldn't be RFA right?
Title: History Repeating Itself
Post by: chipstern on December 15, 2018, 08:59:28 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 15, 2018, 06:12:14 PM
Quote from: luee on December 15, 2018, 05:28:32 PM
---Mudiay building his trade value.---

For a burnt out bench warmer perhaps? Too young and talented for Dolan Knicks. KK and Mud for Mello and Noah? What part of rebuild year is not understood?

If we are all in for KD we should be trading guys we are going to renounce anyway. 
If he plays well enough maybe extract a late #1 or a couple #2s from a team looking to make the playoffs that needs a PG.

Brilliant.  God knows THE KNICKS DON'T NEED A PG. 

Yes, let's build up a large pool of talent to renounce. 

That was the Donnie Douche Strategy for LeBron. 

Worked like a charm. 

Followed shortly thereafter by the ALL IN FOR MELO Transaction. 

Someone just shoot me...

Go on Nages, you've earned the privilege...

PS: Still waiting for the magic bullet.  In the meantime...AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.  Mudiay finally beginning to fulfill his promise and pay dividends, so now, LET'S TRADE HIM.

(https://i.warosu.org/data/tg/img/0266/56/1376675353523.gif)

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
Title: Jabari
Post by: chipstern on December 15, 2018, 09:07:48 PM
New Bulls coach Jim Boylen removed Parker from the rotation because of poor defensive effort and individual offensive play, sources said. Several teams have contacted the Bulls to express interest in Parker and begin preliminary talks, sources said. With both sides amenable to a trade, there’s incentive to finalize a deal sooner rather than later.
– via Chicago Tribune
Title: Baby Chip
Post by: carlos123 on December 15, 2018, 09:38:08 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 15, 2018, 05:16:04 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 15, 2018, 04:06:14 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 15, 2018, 11:33:24 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 15, 2018, 11:27:18 AM
Quote from: chipstern on December 15, 2018, 05:18:14 AM
Quote from: Nagel on December 14, 2018, 10:28:36 PM
another useless win.  damn.

another useless post



I don’t think so.

TankU2

Wrong on that one too, as I switched to PP awhile back. My point is that Nagel’s posts are not useless as you pound over and over every time he has something to say. GO NAGEL!

Johnny
One
Note

(https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/63918173.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 15, 2018, 10:11:30 PM
Lmao Carlos
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 15, 2018, 10:46:51 PM
All-around not a bad sequence of deals for PHX. 
They had Ariza as a mentor for 1/3 of a season.
They move him for a long look at Uber and Rivers.
None of it affects next year's salary cap.
They get to see how 23 year old Uber fits their team, have matching rights on him as an RFA, can decide how much to pay.
And who knows maybe they'll even keep Rivers on a $3M or so contract.  Worked the recent 1 year FA deals pretty well.

Bulls hoping to do the same with Jabari.  Though he's at $20M.  They did get a team option 2nd year, but pretty worthless at that rate now.
Title: Funny How That Works
Post by: chipstern on December 15, 2018, 11:33:50 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 15, 2018, 09:38:08 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 15, 2018, 05:16:04 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 15, 2018, 04:06:14 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 15, 2018, 11:33:24 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 15, 2018, 11:27:18 AM
Quote from: chipstern on December 15, 2018, 05:18:14 AM
Quote from: Nagel on December 14, 2018, 10:28:36 PM
another useless win.  damn.

another useless post



I don’t think so.

TankU2

Wrong on that one too, as I switched to PP awhile back. My point is that Nagel’s posts are not useless as you pound over and over every time he has something to say. GO NAGEL!

Johnny
One
Note

(https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/63918173.jpg)

(http://www.chipstern.com/chip_bio_files/image002.jpg)

The Godfather

And James Brown
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on December 15, 2018, 11:36:59 PM
How does G league eligibility work? Can any NBA team put in a claim, or must they negotiate with the parent team?
Title: Re: Funny How That Works
Post by: Kam on December 16, 2018, 12:01:13 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 15, 2018, 11:33:50 PM

(http://www.chipstern.com/chip_bio_files/image002.jpg)

The Godfather

And James Brown

LOL
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 16, 2018, 12:07:24 PM
Quote from: luee on December 15, 2018, 11:36:59 PM
How does G league eligibility work? Can any NBA team put in a claim, or must they negotiate with the parent team?

If another team wanted one of our junior leaguers their G League team must trade for the player.  That's how i understand it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on December 16, 2018, 12:10:50 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 14, 2018, 10:08:38 PM
Yeah

3 per game guy.

Not so bad.

Add Hachimura to this group and it gets interesting.

If we draft Hachimura I presume it means we've either made the playoffs or managed to trade for a pick in the teens. So, yes, that would be interesting.

(In other words, no way Hachimura is going in the top five or so, where we'll hopefully be drafting. I've seen Hachimura play in person, by the way)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on December 16, 2018, 12:20:02 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 15, 2018, 07:46:16 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 15, 2018, 06:14:10 PM
The Lakers got nothing for Julius Randle.  He was renounced.  He's starting for the Pelicans now.

Yeah that was a weird case.  Lakers needed every buck and had lots of talent.

Either a) they chose to sign Rondo and KCP rather than pay Randle or b) Randle didn't want to fight for time/touches with Lebron and Kuzma.

Either way, they let a real talent get away.

That said, NO has been terrible with Randle at the 5. Bleeding points. He needs a rim protector on the court with him, so he and Lebron or Kuz wouldn't have made for much of a frontcourt.

They've been brilliant with AD at the 5 and Payton at the 1, but those two have only played four full games together.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on December 16, 2018, 12:20:45 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 15, 2018, 10:10:59 AM
Latest on that trade -

Memphis didn't want to lose Dillon Brooks JUST TO GET OUBRE.

High praise for KO.

Heh.

Oubre an ending deal, Brooks (who is a better player than the stats would suggest) has two years after this one at the minimum.

Kiid is on a very long losing streak of posts, by the way.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 16, 2018, 02:15:56 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on December 16, 2018, 12:10:50 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 14, 2018, 10:08:38 PM
Yeah

3 per game guy.

Not so bad.

Add Hachimura to this group and it gets interesting.

If we draft Hachimura I presume it means we've either made the playoffs or managed to trade for a pick in the teens. So, yes, that would be interesting.

(In other words, no way Hachimura is going in the top five or so, where we'll hopefully be drafting. I've seen Hachimura play in person, by the way)

Have you seen him 8 times?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 16, 2018, 02:33:29 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 16, 2018, 12:07:24 PM
Quote from: luee on December 15, 2018, 11:36:59 PM
How does G league eligibility work? Can any NBA team put in a claim, or must they negotiate with the parent team?

If another team wanted one of our junior leaguers their G League team must trade for the player.  That's how i understand it.

Yup. If a player was drafted and a team retains his draft rights, 2-ways, and affiliate players who are already on NBA rosters must be traded for. Anyone else can be signed outright by any team.
Title: Granny Chip
Post by: carlos123 on December 16, 2018, 02:34:13 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 16, 2018, 12:01:13 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 15, 2018, 11:33:50 PM

(http://www.chipstern.com/chip_bio_files/image002.jpg)

The Godfather

And James Brown

LOL

(http://www.funnymemes.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Being-wrong-feels-like-what.png)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 16, 2018, 03:09:16 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 16, 2018, 02:33:29 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 16, 2018, 12:07:24 PM
Quote from: luee on December 15, 2018, 11:36:59 PM
How does G league eligibility work? Can any NBA team put in a claim, or must they negotiate with the parent team?

If another team wanted one of our junior leaguers their G League team must trade for the player.  That's how i understand it.

Yup. If a player was drafted and a team retains his draft rights, 2-ways, and affiliate players who are already on NBA rosters must be traded for. Anyone else can be signed outright by any team.

Then he is wrong.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 16, 2018, 04:00:27 PM
Sorry Kam.

The example is Nigel Hayes, who was signed by the Lakers on a 10 day right off our GLeague team in Westchester with no trading necessary.

It’s in the professional career section.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigel_Hayes (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigel_Hayes)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 16, 2018, 04:27:24 PM
Latest nbadraft.net mock has us nabbing REDDISH one pick after Cavs take Hachimura.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 16, 2018, 04:34:43 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 16, 2018, 04:00:27 PM
Sorry Kam.

The example is Nigel Hayes, who was signed by the Lakers on a 10 day right off our GLeague team in Westchester with no trading necessary.

It’s in the professional career section.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigel_Hayes (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigel_Hayes)

So... If the guy is a JAG ( just another G-leaguer ) with no Parent team affiliation then he can be signed by any team. 

Makes sense.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 16, 2018, 05:42:11 PM
Ahhhhhh....fuckin' Burke's back.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 16, 2018, 06:23:57 PM
I wonder how D'Angelo Russell looked today.
Title: The Junior Slump
Post by: Kam on December 16, 2018, 07:01:11 PM
Timmy in a genuine scoring slump.  Averaging mid teens the last five games instead of the 23 ppg average he was rocking the first 25 games or so.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 16, 2018, 07:37:05 PM
Other people are getting shots. He was a pretty reliable source of points in a game they were hard to come by in, if you take away the two shots after the Pacers blew it up late to double digits, it was a pretty bad night despite a steal and a block.

It was a contest until that stretch where we just got the damn ball ripped out of our hands. I guess it’s part of the process of learning how to beat tough teams on the road.

It was disappointing but not surprising to see Frank all jittery again.

I’m hoping Kanter keeps these numbers up over the next couple of months and that we pull out some surprise wins.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 16, 2018, 07:41:26 PM
WTF is this clown FIZDALE doing?
Under 7 minutes and scrubinis were still on the court.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 16, 2018, 07:53:02 PM
Just constantly outcoached.  Can't even run a fucking out of bounds play.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 16, 2018, 08:01:14 PM
Worried they wouldn’t have finished beautifully down the stretch like our starters did?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 16, 2018, 08:24:09 PM
Starters were asked to come in cold, down 7 with 647......

Joke.

Give em the last 9 minutes at least (no. If its me they aren't even resting to start the 4th)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on December 16, 2018, 09:00:53 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 16, 2018, 07:53:02 PM
Just constantly outcoached.  Can't even run a fucking out of bounds pla  .

What part of rebuild dont you understand? The purpose is to pick and develop young ones. A loss is a win.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 16, 2018, 10:00:13 PM
Tonight's loss is why you enjoy the WINS like the ones vs. Charlotte.


We are young and will cough games up naturally.  No effort required.
Title: Knicks beat spread... just barely. Under wins.
Post by: Kam on December 16, 2018, 10:58:48 PM
Westgate   
+12
-12   
214.5
   
NY: +650
IND: -1000

Caesar's   
+11.5
-11.5   
217   

William Hill   
+11.5
-11.5   
217   


Wynn   
+12
-12   
217   

Unibet   
+11.5
-11.5   
214.5   
Title: Just imagine
Post by: Kam on December 16, 2018, 11:06:24 PM
KP returns and all the things that will mean for the rest of the team. 

Timmy becomes the #2 scorer. 
Frank improves automagically (Frank and KP were NY's best duo statistically last season).
Fewer Mario Hezonja / Lance Thomas minutes.
SWAG.
etc
Title: Tank Update
Post by: Kam on December 16, 2018, 11:13:49 PM
PHX has won two in a row and we could give them their third straight and cut their lotto lead in half.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 17, 2018, 12:13:10 AM
Sad we won’t see Mitch against Ayton.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on December 17, 2018, 12:40:21 AM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 16, 2018, 04:27:24 PM
Latest nbadraft.net mock has us nabbing REDDISH one pick after Cavs take Hachimura.

Again, a joke website. Rui is not going top 5.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 17, 2018, 03:04:59 AM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 16, 2018, 06:23:57 PM
I wonder how D'Angelo Russell looked today.

Take that Atlanta!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 17, 2018, 08:41:53 AM
We play PHX & ATL this week.  Major tank alert.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 17, 2018, 09:49:36 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on December 17, 2018, 12:40:21 AM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 16, 2018, 04:27:24 PM
Latest nbadraft.net mock has us nabbing REDDISH one pick after Cavs take Hachimura.

Again, a joke website. Rui is not going top 5.

I guess you have a guy like Indiana's Langford at 5

That's cool.  Supposedly a nice player.

Or Reddish.... also cool beans.

I want a more seasoned pick this year if possible.  But if we are in the top 5 tough to miss.  Gets tricky further down.
Title: Knicks for sale
Post by: carlos123 on December 17, 2018, 01:18:57 PM
Dolan selling the team (probably, per ABC News).

Any takers?
Title: Re: Knicks for sale
Post by: chipstern on December 17, 2018, 02:44:02 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 17, 2018, 01:18:57 PM
Dolan selling the team (probably, per ABC News).

Any takers?

Kiid & Nagel
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 17, 2018, 02:46:39 PM
Mudiay dunkin all over your asses

I think THJ has a chance to hold on to high scorer honors.
Title: Cracker Barrell
Post by: chipstern on December 17, 2018, 03:04:05 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 17, 2018, 02:46:39 PM
Mudiay dunkin all over your asses

I think THJ has a chance to hold on to high scorer honors.

Mudiay reaching his potential.  Still only 22. 

But that moron Fizdale gets no credit?

Gee, wonder why? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 17, 2018, 03:46:38 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 17, 2018, 02:46:39 PM
Mudiay dunkin all over your asses


Ironic how he missed the dunk that turned the game
Title: Re: Knicks for sale
Post by: Kam on December 17, 2018, 03:48:09 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 17, 2018, 02:44:02 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 17, 2018, 01:18:57 PM
Dolan selling the team (probably, per ABC News).

Any takers?

Kiid & Nagel

He is only asking for $5mil

Clippers were a bargain at $2mil
Title: Re: Knicks for sale
Post by: chipstern on December 17, 2018, 03:49:53 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 17, 2018, 03:48:09 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 17, 2018, 02:44:02 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 17, 2018, 01:18:57 PM
Dolan selling the team (probably, per ABC News).

Any takers?

Kiid & Nagel

He is only asking for $5mil

Clippers were a bargain at $2mil

Cute

BILLION
Title: Re: Knicks for sale
Post by: Kam on December 17, 2018, 04:45:16 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 17, 2018, 03:49:53 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 17, 2018, 03:48:09 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 17, 2018, 02:44:02 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 17, 2018, 01:18:57 PM
Dolan selling the team (probably, per ABC News).

Any takers?

Kiid & Nagel

He is only asking for $5mil

Clippers were a bargain at $2mil

Cute

BILLION

Billion?  Oy!  Are players made of gold?!
Title: Re: Cracker Barrell
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 17, 2018, 04:56:26 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 17, 2018, 03:04:05 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 17, 2018, 02:46:39 PM
Mudiay dunkin all over your asses

I think THJ has a chance to hold on to high scorer honors.

Mudiay reaching his potential.  Still only 22. 

But that moron Fizdale gets no credit?

Gee, wonder why?

Best games are when he gets deserved  minutes

Like I said ....Burke back and Fiz just had to play him

Heh
Title: Mudiay
Post by: chipstern on December 17, 2018, 05:08:14 PM
Yes, Emmanuel "Only" got 30 minutes from Fizz at the point. 

Heh. 

18 points and 6 assists.

Frank and Trey with a combined 31 minutes and for 6 points and 7 assists.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 17, 2018, 05:31:26 PM
I think all three of our PGs would benefit from playing primary PG minutes.

Pick a horse and ride him for 30-35 per night. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 17, 2018, 06:06:13 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 17, 2018, 05:31:26 PM
I think all three of our PGs would benefit from playing primary PG minutes.

Pick a horse and ride him for 30-35 per night.

Mudiay has won that scrum.

41 minutes in OT game on Friday.

30 minutes last night. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 17, 2018, 07:29:38 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 17, 2018, 06:06:13 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 17, 2018, 05:31:26 PM
I think all three of our PGs would benefit from playing primary PG minutes.

Pick a horse and ride him for 30-35 per night.

Mudiay has won that scrum.

41 minutes in OT game on Friday.

30 minutes last night.

PS: You want back court minutes?  Hardaway out tonight.  So are Trier and Dotson.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 17, 2018, 08:13:35 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 17, 2018, 07:29:38 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 17, 2018, 06:06:13 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 17, 2018, 05:31:26 PM
I think all three of our PGs would benefit from playing primary PG minutes.

Pick a horse and ride him for 30-35 per night.

Mudiay has won that scrum.

41 minutes in OT game on Friday.

30 minutes last night.

PS: You want back court minutes?  Hardaway out tonight.  So are Trier and Dotson.

Mudiay: Triple Double tonight?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 17, 2018, 09:08:57 PM
PER

Mudiay - 16.3
Jamal Murray - 14.0

Heh.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 17, 2018, 09:13:16 PM
Frank a boy among men....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 17, 2018, 09:23:46 PM
The "stiff" Josh Jackson...

5-8, 14, 7 and 3
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on December 17, 2018, 09:30:19 PM
Surprise surprise, mud has emerged as the star of the bunch. Nice tank against big draft competitor with matador D in 3rd.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 17, 2018, 09:31:28 PM
Nice squad out there

Frank, Trey (why?), Luke, Knox, Mario

Heh.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 17, 2018, 09:36:38 PM
Mudy in Frank out - here we go
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 17, 2018, 09:47:26 PM
Jamal Crawford with 14 assists
Knicks as a team with just 14
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 17, 2018, 11:42:27 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 17, 2018, 09:23:46 PM
The "stiff" Josh Jackson...
5-8, 14, 7 and 3

Who called JoshJax a stiff?
I said he looked pretty decent in the 2 Suns games I saw, energetic, bouncy, good on defense.

Not too many others here even talk about other teams much.
I did quote an article lamenting Suns draft picks: Bender, Chriss, Len and wondering if Jackson was another high miss.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on December 17, 2018, 11:56:39 PM
direct TV with a week free so I get to watch our beloved Knicks.

perfect night.  Mud looks like a point guard and Fizle looks like a high school coach with his zone defense.

how is that working?

NY has a legit shot at top 3 in the draft.

keep up the good work fizzle.

Title: Ogun
Post by: carlos123 on December 18, 2018, 12:26:37 AM
Nagel, may Ogun protect you from the wrath of Chip, which may (or may not) be coming upon you!

By the way, coach Fizzle Lmao.
Title: Unacceptable
Post by: chipstern on December 18, 2018, 12:35:43 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 18, 2018, 12:26:37 AM
Nagel, may Ogun protect you from the wrath of Chip, which may (or may not) be coming upon you!

By the way, coach Fizzle Lmao.

(https://images.gr-assets.com/hostedimages/1461060779ra/18815302.gif)

(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-XVgopnA6p4g/VzfQmCPYVLI/AAAAAAAAEK4/_zemhe4HdkUFNodxot6WdXUHhvWUSvNRwCLcB/s1600/top%2Bsf%2B12.gif)

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/eIRZgPAkuIU/hqdefault.jpg)

(http://66.media.tumblr.com/9fdfbdd4fd70f56bdfc3f5daed8db7e1/tumblr_o1kv8kmI3i1uy8p1no1_500.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 18, 2018, 01:54:10 AM
Mud 2-4 on 3's at the half.  the two he made a stepback elbow 3 with the shotclock winding down.  And a lean-in floating straight-on 3,  Both tough shots.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 18, 2018, 02:13:50 AM
Jeez, PHX waived Awful Rivers and just ate his (pro-rated) $12.5M.
And this while they have a rook PG Melton and 38 year old Craw as their only PG's.

Really I thought AuRevoir was more of a need than Oubre, since PHX already has Bridges, TJ Warren Commission, Josh Jax, and Holmes -- ie they don't really need another SF.

Funny:  I check ESPN's depth chart for PHX and they list Rivers as the Suns starting PG.   ESPN often does a poor job with their depth charts.  But just underscores that Rivers looked like a useful piece.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 18, 2018, 04:31:11 AM
Not sure how much longer Mud is going to be able to make some of these tough shots he's been putting up.  His get in the paint, plant a shoulder in the opponent, and shoot a short fall-away J has been a new-found go-to move.  That's encouraging and sustainable, though teams may start to have a 2nd defender sag in from the perimeter to affect that. 

Mud also has been making some good reads/passes at times.  And his penetration has been nice, while his rim finishes seem up.  Still some bad passes and a good deal of off-balance shots.

His confidence level is sky high and that makes a huge difference for players.  Props to Fizz. 

IF Mud becomes a genuine starting quality PG, it raises a few Q's for the Knickers.  What to do with Franc.  The defense of a Mud-Tim Jr backcourt.  How much do you re-sign Muddy for.  Etc.

And another question I have: has Mud developed any chemistry with another teammate.  Kanter first comes to mind, and he might not be back next year.  Others?   I still think the biggest issue for a NYK PG is how they work with KZ.  Which means Mud's (& Franc's) biggest challenge still lies ahead.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 18, 2018, 06:00:49 AM
Mudiay is in really good shape. If he stays healthy, he should easily maintain his counting stats if not up them a decent amount. Because the season is still early, his shuffled in and booty played games still loom large. It’s likely though his percentages slip as teams give him more focus and energy in opposition. Hopefully he stays involved and sets new career highs despite the pressure. I’d give him his tender and pay him over his cap hold if he can do that.

How many players set a career high in any category at Jamal’s age? Not many I’d hazzard.

I’d like us to keep, develop, and play Mudiay, Ntilikina, and Trier as lead guards who can play with each other. I’d take calls on Hardaway, Lee, and Burke hoping they play better and better all the time.

I’d also take calls on Kanter and Mario though there’s no urgency. I just don’t expect them back except possibly as cheap depth filler for one or two if they don’t find better options. If he has more games like tonight’s rather than his better games, Luke is in that list as well.

Mitch, KP, Vonleh, Knox, and Dotson are all keepers to build up. Fortunately 3 are already sown up for next year. I’m done with Lance and hope soon the same can be said of the Knicks.

This is the earliest I can remember being fully behind a tank. It strange though because I fully want to win each game. When it starts to not happen this year, I find it ok instead of maddening. I just hope it stays fun.

TJ Warren isn’t as good as we made him look, but he can play. I think he’ll be a value player through his contract if healthy.

Who takes Rivers for the minimum? He can earn that surely...

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 18, 2018, 07:29:37 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 17, 2018, 11:42:27 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 17, 2018, 09:23:46 PM
The "stiff" Josh Jackson...
5-8, 14, 7 and 3

Who called JoshJax a stiff?

You're kidding, right?

Don't be so sensitive.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 18, 2018, 07:33:44 AM
Austin Rivers was horrible after leaving Dad.

May have been a fine player if he found the nerve to stay 3-4 years at Duke

No.  He is no Crawford.

Austin not the guy you think of keeping on for "presence", to say the least.

Back with Clips on a min deal?  We shall see.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 18, 2018, 07:57:37 AM
Yeah.....Suns didn't do too well for Ariz a

Strange 15 mil signing.  Tough number for teams to fit.  And metrics weren't good on him this year

But of course Trev gets a bit of a rebirth now.  They always liked him in Wash. (fans....etc).

Sat likely back to second unit.  And Deker has looked pretty good with KO's minutes.  I think Sammay be kept andblossom.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jerrya on December 18, 2018, 12:01:07 PM
My take so far with 32 games in the book...the season is over.  After watching all games and trying to be patient here's why:

1.  We don't have shooters...good shooters don't miss the rim entirely and hit backboard only or throw up a UFO. Too many of those.

2.  Lack of talent...Take away our lack of good shooters we have below average post players.

3.  Coaching...This might be a classic example of the Peter Principle...Great assistant but not HC material.  Fitz might be a nice guy but his sub patters and variety of lines up are not good for consistency.  Plays too many players... pick your best 8 and go with them unless forced by injuries or fouls.

I see nothing in the near future that can change any of these which brings me to the conclusion there are many bad years ahead. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 18, 2018, 01:14:49 PM
Some of y'all are just now -32games in- realizing the nature and reason for the season.

This Season was over the last time KP played.

The moment that Fugly Greek stretched out his big ass feet underneath the only place KP could have landed ---

That was it.

This season was always about losing with youth.

Fizz is doing a masterful job.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on December 18, 2018, 02:03:10 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 17, 2018, 11:42:27 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 17, 2018, 09:23:46 PM
The "stiff" Josh Jackson...
5-8, 14, 7 and 3

Who called JoshJax a stiff?
I said he looked pretty decent in the 2 Suns games I saw, energetic, bouncy, good on defense.

Not too many others here even talk about other teams much.
I did quote an article lamenting Suns draft picks: Bender, Chriss, Len and wondering if Jackson was another high miss.

Well, Fox went right after Josh Jax, so certainly lament is unavoidable.


Rivers would be a good fit in Houston, but he's not playing on the same team as CP3, so scratch that. Clippers' backcourt is too loaded, no PT for him there, not even a roster spot.

Philly or New Orleans or possibly Detroit, those are the teams that make the most sense. I'd like to see him with the Hornets who are desperate for wing play.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on December 18, 2018, 02:03:33 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 17, 2018, 09:49:36 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on December 17, 2018, 12:40:21 AM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 16, 2018, 04:27:24 PM
Latest nbadraft.net mock has us nabbing REDDISH one pick after Cavs take Hachimura.

Again, a joke website. Rui is not going top 5.

I guess you have a guy like Indiana's Langford at 5

That's cool.  Supposedly a nice player.

Or Reddish.... also cool beans.

I want a more seasoned pick this year if possible.  But if we are in the top 5 tough to miss.  Gets tricky further down.

Langford might go top 5, I suppose, but he fall to the back end of the lottery. But I think Reddish is generally accepted as being in a tier above, right at or near the level of Kevin Porter or even RJ Barrett. We get one of those three (or Zion), we will be a very interesting squad going into next year, irrespective of what happens in free agency.

The one top five guy I do NOT want is Bol.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 18, 2018, 02:07:21 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 18, 2018, 01:14:49 PM
Some of y'all are just now -32games in- realizing the nature and reason for the season.

This Season was over the last time KP played.

The moment that Fugly Greek stretched out his big ass feet underneath the only place KP could have landed ---

That was it.

This season was always about losing with youth.

Fizz is doing a masterful job.

I understand some of the calls on Fizz's questionable coaching. 

Coaching for next season as much as this. 

Again, I am on record as being extremely doubtful a high level free agent arrives. 

So, it is down to nurturing what we have, and not losing anyone because of challenges of finding minutes for everyone, and juggling rotations. 

Anyone other than me notice how in one recent blowout, Fizz got Ron Baker some significant fourth quarter burn?

Kiid eviscerates Fizz for finding minutes for the likes of Burke and Ntilikina. 

Fair enough. 

Disagree. 

Trying to get Burke back in rhythm after missing considerable time with sprained knee. 

Trying to build Frank's confidence and efficiency and production...not unlike how he has done with MUDIAY, who God help me, looked like a poor man's BIG O on some possessions of late [Nagel/Carlos' Deity Ogun is preparing to strike me dead for that]. 

Not a tanking season.  Neither a slow tank nor a deliberate one.

But Fizz, Perry, Mills trying to see who is a keeper, and who is not. 

Mudiay and Vonleh the most significant feel good stories of the retreads. 

Hezonja shows signs, but still not there. 

Knox showing significant growth on offensive end...defense?  Call me in March. 

Trier and Dotson responding well to Fizz's doting. 

Timmy up and down, streaky, but taking charges, making passes, doing other things...still, high volume.  Be interesting to see how he and Mudiay mesh when he gets back, and if Timmy can facilitate Mudiay and leave him room to develop offensive game. 

Still have not really settled on any rotations. 

And defense is up and down. 

Effort is generally there.  Kids have a lot of fight in them. 

But when our defense is bad, it is really bad, and you can see the air let out of their balloon. 

48

48

48

Last night, good first half, settled down in fourth quarter, but a complete third quarter shit storm of earthly delights. 

Be interesting to see how we respond to Philly, considering being finger fucked by Phoenix, and the beat-down Sixers laid on us last time. 

PS: Sure missing Trier, who apparently really was hurt.  Considering the inconsistency of our shooting, having guy who can create his own shots...I look forward to some Mudiay-Trier burn. 

PPS: Anyway, so many new faces, so many kids, looking for cohesion and consistency, Fizz grasping at defensive straws with roll of the dice on zone.  This is what a rebuild looks like.  Alas. 

PPPS: Texted Miras last night, offering compensatory fellatio, in light of win 1 lose 5 proclamation for the prince of darkness.  No response to date.  Lips puckered. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 18, 2018, 02:23:03 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 18, 2018, 07:33:44 AM
Austin Rivers was horrible after leaving Dad.

May have been a fine player if he found the nerve to stay 3-4 years at Duke

No.  He is no Crawford.

Austin not the guy you think of keeping on for "presence", to say the least.

Back with Clips on a min deal?  We shall see.

Memphis.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 18, 2018, 02:23:52 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 18, 2018, 06:00:49 AM

Who takes Rivers for the minimum? He can earn that surely...

Memphis gets him after all.  No picks required.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 18, 2018, 04:33:02 PM
Memphis holding off. May have something todo with buyout negotiations between Rivers and Suns.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 18, 2018, 05:14:42 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 18, 2018, 02:23:52 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 18, 2018, 06:00:49 AM

Who takes Rivers for the minimum? He can earn that surely...

Memphis gets him after all.  No picks required.

Mem wasn't getting him in the initial deal.
Title: Rivers I Have Known
Post by: chipstern on December 18, 2018, 06:00:42 PM
Word now is that Memphis in NOT interested in Rivers. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 18, 2018, 07:37:04 PM
Many rivers to cross
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on December 18, 2018, 07:39:03 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 18, 2018, 01:14:49 PM
Some of y'all are just now -32games in- realizing the nature and reason for the season.

This Season was over the last time KP played.

The moment that Fugly Greek stretched out his big ass feet underneath the only place KP could have landed ---

That was it.

This season was always about losing with youth.

Fizz is doing a masterful job.

the zone is not an NBA option. it's for college , high school and Pee wee ball.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 18, 2018, 07:56:11 PM
Quote from: Nagel on December 18, 2018, 07:39:03 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 18, 2018, 01:14:49 PM
Some of y'all are just now -32games in- realizing the nature and reason for the season.

This Season was over the last time KP played.

The moment that Fugly Greek stretched out his big ass feet underneath the only place KP could have landed ---

That was it.

This season was always about losing with youth.

Fizz is doing a masterful job.

the zone is not an NBA option. it's for college , high school and Pee wee ball.

We have mostly college guys.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 18, 2018, 09:05:54 PM
How does D'Angelo look tonight?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on December 18, 2018, 09:41:44 PM
russell looks good.

cats with an surprising win over Indy.

good for us who hoping for a top 3 pick..
Title: Race to the bottom
Post by: carlos123 on December 18, 2018, 10:11:01 PM
Quote from: Nagel on December 18, 2018, 09:41:44 PM
russell looks good.

cats with an surprising win over Indy.

good for us who hoping for a top 3 pick..

Atlanta won also
Title: Don't GO Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 18, 2018, 11:40:19 PM
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/2ae57f4ef83d76156ab337f3b2b14103/tenor.gif?itemid=8534951)

(https://media.giphy.com/media/SGoCKJ0A6X85y/giphy.gif)

(https://media.giphy.com/media/NwHo5JFZoQ7ok/giphy.gif)

(https://i.imgur.com/o5bvmTF.gif)

(https://pa1.narvii.com/6457/f85aa55fff591bc4d0b763b4fef91d586ef8fa9d_hq.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on December 19, 2018, 12:08:57 AM
weed is too strong tonight for the  taxi man.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 19, 2018, 02:00:04 AM
Wizards guard Chasson Randle, waived on Nov. 12, was re-signed to a one-year deal and had seven points.

Jeremy Lin scored 12 of his 16 points in the final period.

Nets winners of 6 in a row.

Knicks barely ahead of the key bottom-dwellers.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 19, 2018, 02:41:42 AM
We’re getting them right where we want ‘em. We’re just developing our way into a very early pick in the draft.

Take that for data!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 19, 2018, 05:15:14 AM
Quote from: Nagel on December 19, 2018, 12:08:57 AM
weed is too strong tonight for the  taxi man.

(https://i.gifer.com/47GY.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 19, 2018, 08:03:13 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 19, 2018, 02:41:42 AM
We’re getting them right where we want ‘em. We’re just developing our way into a very early pick in the draft.

Take that for data!

Yes.  And when we get Reddish then FIZDALE will turn into a great strategist!  I'm in.  And I am in on that GE stock as well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 19, 2018, 08:13:52 AM
Quote from: Nagel on December 18, 2018, 09:41:44 PM
russell looks good.





18, 6 and 4 averages in 29 minutes

42/37/75

Turns 23 in 2 months

Making just 7 mil.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on December 19, 2018, 12:08:42 PM
Dallas-based rumour of Wes Matthews for Tim Hardaway Jr. I'd suggested this deal over the summer, before Timmy showed out a bit. Dallas guy said a second rounder as well. Not sure there's anything to it, tbh, but it still makes sense for the Knicks.

This trade would give the Knicks the freedom to sign a max contract while likely keeping all of Frank, Knox, Mitch, Trier, Dotson, Mudiay and Vonleh (unless Mudiay keeps going for 30 every now and again, or Vonleh wants a deal north of MLE money).

Moving Courtney Lee means you give up at least one of those guys (losing one other than Dotson and Mitch, whose contracts are pennies) if you sign a big name.

Move both Lee and Timmy, and you've got the space to not only sign a big name but to bring in an MLE-sized contract as well (Kanter, if you really want, or a wing, depending on who you draft).
Title: Guess What
Post by: chipstern on December 19, 2018, 01:52:23 PM
Timmy has plantar fasciitis.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 19, 2018, 02:24:30 PM
 Well alright then.  Make the deal.


Too fuckin' funny.
Title: Deal?
Post by: chipstern on December 19, 2018, 04:32:45 PM
I'm not advocating shipping Timmy out. 

Biz is the progenitor of that narrative. 

Nor is her alone. 

The endless allure of cap space. 

PS: Biz, is there a link to this "rumor"?  I haven't found a reference on line. 
Title: Deal? BULLSHIT
Post by: chipstern on December 19, 2018, 04:49:55 PM
BILL SIMMONS thinking out loud, so to speak. 

One deal that Bill Simmons theorized was offering Matthews and a second-round pick to the New York Knicks for Tim Hardaway Jr. and Frank Ntilikina. For the Knicks, Hardaway has a very large contract that eats up cap space that could otherwise be offered to an upcoming big-name free agent (like, say, Kevin Durant in July).

Plus, Hardaway will help New York win some games when it may make more sense to tank for a top talent like Zion Williamson. Since Dallas is focused on winning, Hardaway could make more sense alongside their young core. With that said, Stein shot down this particular theory because the Mavs’ front office wants to keep the cap space they will have this offseason:

In other words?

Total

BULLSHIT
Title: Tank Alert
Post by: carlos123 on December 19, 2018, 11:24:39 PM
Phoenix won again, but the f’in Bulls managed to lose in the last 27 seconds or so after being ahead the whole game. The Cavs weren’t even close.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on December 20, 2018, 12:55:38 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on December 19, 2018, 12:08:42 PM
Dallas-based rumour of Wes Matthews for Tim Hardaway Jr. I'd suggested this deal over the summer, before Timmy showed out a bit. Dallas guy said a second rounder as well. Not sure there's anything to it, tbh, but it still makes sense for the Knicks.

This trade would give the Knicks the freedom to sign a max contract while likely keeping all of Frank, Knox, Mitch, Trier, Dotson, Mudiay and Vonleh (unless Mudiay keeps going for 30 every now and again, or Vonleh wants a deal north of MLE money).

Moving Courtney Lee means you give up at least one of those guys (losing one other than Dotson and Mitch, whose contracts are pennies) if you sign a big name.

Move both Lee and Timmy, and you've got the space to not only sign a big name but to bring in an MLE-sized contract as well (Kanter, if you really want, or a wing, depending on who you draft).

I had seen it from someone in Dallas, not Simmons, but as I said above my point was less that it was veracious (I expressed my doubts) but more that I thought the Knicks should do it.

I'd rather move Courtly than Timmy. But that's going to be harder to accomplish, I think.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on December 20, 2018, 12:57:18 AM
Nice to see Baker sign with the Wiz!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 20, 2018, 02:29:44 AM
McConnell was trying the Pigioni inbounds steal play.  Worked onc,e almost twice.

Wil was fouling a lot.

Shamet was killing us.
PHI had 7 bench guys all +

Dotson shot well; but couldn't handle a double team, made a poor foul to give Reddick 3 FT's ...

Knox was good in the first half.

Mud - Hardaway - Kanter - Rook = 69 1st half opp points.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 20, 2018, 04:19:44 AM
Kornet and Frank had very disappointing games.

Some of these guys just are what they are.

We might get a rare one against Atlanta, then back to getting roughed up again.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 20, 2018, 09:58:14 AM
6 rebounds in 29 minutes.

Kanter feasts on the weak and puts up ZERO offensive rebounds against real comp.

Tired of his 3 offensive rebound to make one basket stat-padding.

You guys are being duped.

Not a starter on a good team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 20, 2018, 10:59:50 AM
I like the way Fizz has handled the minutes/team.
Sure starting Mario was painful, but it bought time for Knox to get himself together physically (ankle) and mentally.  Now Knox has looked good most 1st halves.  Gaining confidence, reps, experience.

Not a fan of the limited defensive starting 5 were suing now, but Fizz is willing to try everything, and losing isn't exactly a bad thing for us.

We need to start getting Courtly back into the thick of things.  Maybe a spot start or two while Tim rests his footsies.  Because we need to audition Courtly for a trade.  HOU said to be interested in KCP.  They might take Court if something can be worked out.  NOP?  DET?  WAS?
Title: Re: THjr's next step in his evoloution
Post by: Kam on December 20, 2018, 11:47:45 AM
Quote from: Kam on December 20, 2018, 11:43:49 AM
More field goals made than three-pointers attempted.

Being a 39% shooter is, as per Nagel, no bueno

But he is capable of taking the ball to the hoop and getting the layup or sent to the FT line.

He really just needs to be smarter about his shot selection instead of gunning for threes like he does early in games.

This year he is averaging 6.3 field goal makes and 7.4 threes attempted, right about his career avg spread.

Only in his breakout ATL season did he manage the feat 5.3 field goals per game and 5.3 3s attempted.
Title: Manny
Post by: Kam on December 20, 2018, 11:53:05 AM
Mudiay.... i'm not paying him to put this act up.


Vonleh is the keeper.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on December 20, 2018, 11:58:06 AM
Quote from: Kam on December 20, 2018, 09:58:14 AM
6 rebounds in 29 minutes.

Kanter feasts on the weak and puts up ZERO offensive rebounds against real comp.

Tired of his 3 offensive rebound to make one basket stat-padding.

You guys are being duped.

Not a starter on a good team.

Nobody thinks he's a starter on a good team, I don't believe.

He's an excellent sub on a good team during the regular season - he'll crush second units and a lot of starters because he tries so hard and he's skilled. But he probably can't be anything other than a fourth big on a contender in the playoffs, because of his defensive deficiencies.

He's a fun guy to have around. Too bad there won't be a spot for him with the Knicks next year.
Title: Re: Manny
Post by: thebizneverloses on December 20, 2018, 12:00:47 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 20, 2018, 11:53:05 AM
Mudiay.... i'm not paying him to put this act up.

Vonleh is the keeper.

Let's say no trades, no big name signings, Vonleh resigns, Kanter walks, and we draft, say, Cam Reddish. Do you prefer a) Mudiay at 15m/3 or b) Delon Wright at 24/3 or c) trade Trier + Dotson to Memphis for Mike Conley's $30m a year deal?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 20, 2018, 02:26:26 PM
Conley is just 2 years (67 mil)....so you could foresee another big signing after that
Title: Re: Manny
Post by: Kam on December 20, 2018, 02:26:59 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on December 20, 2018, 12:00:47 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 20, 2018, 11:53:05 AM
Mudiay.... i'm not paying him to put this act up.

Vonleh is the keeper.

Let's say no trades, no big name signings, Vonleh resigns, Kanter walks, and we draft, say, Cam Reddish. Do you prefer a) Mudiay at 15m/3 or b) Delon Wright at 24/3 or c) trade Trier + Dotson to Memphis for Mike Conley's $30m a year deal?

Obviously C is my first choice if Memphis is daft enough to make that deal.

or D  Do nothing
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on December 20, 2018, 02:38:35 PM
I don't necessarily think it's daft for a team going nowhere anyway to trade a 31-year old 30-million dollar a year (for this year and next year at least) smallish guy who's been hurt a lot the last few years.

What I think would be daft is bringing him in thinking he would change things.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 20, 2018, 02:53:10 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on December 20, 2018, 02:38:35 PM
I don't necessarily think it's daft for a team going nowhere anyway to trade a 31-year old 30-million dollar a year (for this year and next year at least) smallish guy who's been hurt a lot the last few years.

What I think would be daft is bringing him in thinking he would change things.

This team really has no PG.  I think if we went from no PGs to having a two-way quality PG ... 30 million or 3 million... I think he would change things and accelerate the coachability  of the team since he knows what Fizz wants and expects already.  He would also have the veteran experience to tell Timmy to stop chuckin.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 20, 2018, 02:55:10 PM
Yeah....

I don't think that is how it works.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on December 20, 2018, 03:05:06 PM
Sobering, but welcome take on Knicks Film School by Mike Vorkunov (https://twitter.com/MikeVorkunov") when he appeared on their podcast last week. I listened this AM and after the last two games resonated more than maybe had I heard it then.

I thought did a great job of challenging the more rosy outlook that some Knick fans have about things right now while also delving slightly into a debate about media coverage/social media, etc. of teams as Knicks Film School hosts also explained their reasoning for being more "optimistic" compared to some beat writers and aggregator sites who they feel just look to stir things up/post things without context.

Anyone else hear this? Vorkunov did fairly well to challenge the notion that KP is sure to stay given the potential limbo status over resigning since we want the cap space for the summer, and also given those incidents with he and the Knicks leadership could point to his own skepticism about their relationship. I'll say how we handle when he comes back, which was not raised, I could see being something that causes friction. KFS pushed back but I was happy to hear their views challenged in a reasonable way as even though I like them, sometimes I feel it does sound like too much of what we think and not others.

Primiarly, I think of how they sounded convinced that the players we have who are ending their contracts will all be willing to sign 1 year deals if we whiff on KD/Leonard (aka big free agent that's not Walker). That sounded like a big assumption when I heard that a few weeks ago. Vorkunov challenged that, and they did accept it as possible. I know Davis is being touted as possible next summer now, but if we whiff I really wonder what we will do.

Last other point that was key was the touting of our youth and trying to compare to Philly's rebuild. Vorkunov said the players we've drafted of late he does not consider top 10 potential (maybe some fans will think Knox is, KFS didn't refute that statement) and that's a big difference. Also, chances are not all will work out so sometimes that seems to not be kept in mind or assumed. He did say Trier was a good signing, and that if Frank becomes an even average offensive player he will be valuable.

Claimed THJ is likely staying no matter what due to his salary as even teams that miss on a big free agent over the summer they'd rather sign someone who offers the same for less. I will say, we shall see to that one because overpaying in free agency for lesser talent seems to be a theme in the NBA especially since the cap increased so much.

Anyway, their podcast is generally great and most listenable to, and brining on guests like this makes it even more worthwhile.
Title: Re: Deal?
Post by: PrezIke on December 20, 2018, 05:24:55 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 19, 2018, 04:32:45 PM
I'm not advocating shipping Timmy out. 

Biz is the progenitor of that narrative. 

Nor is her alone. 

The endless allure of cap space. 

PS: Biz, is there a link to this "rumor"?  I haven't found a reference on line.

It’s not just cap space though, chip. It’s value for what is spent. He’s not really close to that value for what he offers, which is something, but his cap hit hurts our flexibility.

He’s a high volume low efficiency shooter and scorer who has improved going to the line and arguably defensively but neither are enough to warrant his cost. We need him because we haven’t got consistent scorers from the perimeter but we’re a very bad and young team.

Maybe the injury was causing decline of late as he started better. I hope that’s true.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 20, 2018, 05:39:44 PM
So much for Ntilikina’s rebirth since getting those three straight DNPs. Ntilikina averaged 14 points in his first three games back from banishment — with Burke injured. Fizdale said Ntilikina gets timid and loses confidence when things go badly early in his stint, and he’s trying to change his mindset.

“It’s just like any habit is,” Fizdale said. “You’ve just got to stay with it where you build a habit of playing free without worrying about what people say, about what the coach is thinking, what anybody is thinking. It’s just because he’s so unselfish, he’s concerned about that stuff.

“You can see it. When you’re around him long enough, you can tell when he’s like, ‘Screw it. I’m just letting it all hang out and I’m just going to play.’ And you can see when he’s thinking about, ‘If I miss this or if I screw this up, what’s going to happen?'

--


Gee, you guys,  that's what i've been saying for a month or two.  Glad Fizzle sees it too.
Title: Re: Deal?
Post by: Kam on December 20, 2018, 05:42:52 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on December 20, 2018, 05:24:55 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 19, 2018, 04:32:45 PM
I'm not advocating shipping Timmy out. 

Biz is the progenitor of that narrative. 


We need him because we haven’t got consistent scorers from the perimeter but we’re a very bad and young team.


Timmy for Jabari Parker?  Do Bulls do that?

CLee and Mud for Jabari? 

Lee and Lance for Jabari?


Let's make a dealio.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 20, 2018, 09:32:26 PM
Lee and Lance makes sense for us. Don’t think the Bulls would want to though.
Title: Re: Deal?
Post by: thebizneverloses on December 21, 2018, 12:42:48 AM
Quote from: Kam on December 20, 2018, 05:42:52 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on December 20, 2018, 05:24:55 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 19, 2018, 04:32:45 PM
I'm not advocating shipping Timmy out. 

Biz is the progenitor of that narrative. 


We need him because we haven’t got consistent scorers from the perimeter but we’re a very bad and young team.


Timmy for Jabari Parker?  Do Bulls do that?

CLee and Mud for Jabari? 

Lee and Lance for Jabari?


Let's make a dealio.

A smart Chicago front office says a quick no to all those deals. Perhaps ForPax might say yes to the first two?

The third is beyond even the worst of management teams (which Chicago clearly is....despite how good WCJ and Lauri look).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 21, 2018, 05:07:05 AM
Yeah, they are certainly not taking on two vets and extra money going forward to unload Jabari.  So scrap 3.

With ZlaV it doesn't make much sense to add Tim, though they do need outside shooting.

Mud & Dunn as a PG tandem?

Othersowise, it seems that franc doesn't really have 3 point range yet.  Most of his misses are front-rimmers.  And most of his shots involve putting some extra body and arm into the shot to get it that far, or occasionally in.  maybe that's just his form, but if so, it's borne of not naturally having the range.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 21, 2018, 07:06:23 AM
Quote
Houston Rockets point guard Chris Paul will be out indefinitely after suffering a strained left hamstring

Paul is 33 and not even half a season into a four-year, $159.7 million contract that he signed with Houston in July.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 21, 2018, 08:25:45 AM
Laughing all the way

All contracts after 32 should be 1 year.  In every sport.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 21, 2018, 08:36:11 AM
Knox at the Duke game with.....

Mudy.

Good to see.

All reports today on Zion to Knicks.

Zion:  "Nah.  That's RJ's team"

Shows they follow the draft order.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 21, 2018, 08:47:21 AM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 21, 2018, 08:25:45 AM
Laughing all the way
All contracts after 32 should be 1 year.  In every sport.

I've proposed all NBA contracts to be only 50% guaranteed.
Bad contracts wouldn't hamper teams nearly as much.
Injuries wouldn't wreck the cap and team as easily.
Would reduce insurance costs as well.

But there's no way I would have given CP3 a 4 year contract averaging $40M.  2 year?  Okay, I guess.  Or a 3 or 4 year at half that value ($20M a year).   Maybe.

Was any other team paying CP3 4/$160M?
And if so, you keep Ariza and find a PG somewhere.
Mostly Harden can play PG anyway.

CP3 is aging and has a long history of leg injuries.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 21, 2018, 09:09:04 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 21, 2018, 07:06:23 AM
Quote
Houston Rockets point guard Chris Paul will be out indefinitely after suffering a strained left hamstring

Paul is 33 and not even half a season into a four-year, $159.7 million contract that he signed with Houston in July.

Noah is also hurt again. 

surprise...Surprise...SURPRISE
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 21, 2018, 09:24:07 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 21, 2018, 08:47:21 AM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 21, 2018, 08:25:45 AM
Laughing all the way
All contracts after 32 should be 1 year.  In every sport.

I've proposed all NBA contracts to be only 50% guaranteed.
Bad contracts wouldn't hamper teams nearly as much.
Injuries wouldn't wreck the cap and team as easily.
Would reduce insurance costs as well.

But there's no way I would have given CP3 a 4 year contract averaging $40M.  2 year?  Okay, I guess.  Or a 3 or 4 year at half that value ($20M a year).   Maybe.

Was any other team paying CP3 4/$160M?
And if so, you keep Ariza and find a PG somewhere.
Mostly Harden can play PG anyway.

CP3 is aging and has a long history of leg injuries.

Yeah......problem is that when at his best CP3 can be the difference between a conference finalist and an NBA champ.

"Odds he stays healthy" doesn't enter the equation.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 21, 2018, 10:11:20 AM
Quote from: chipstern on December 21, 2018, 09:09:04 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 21, 2018, 07:06:23 AM
Quote
Houston Rockets point guard Chris Paul will be out indefinitely after suffering a strained left hamstring

Paul is 33 and not even half a season into a four-year, $159.7 million contract that he signed with Houston in July.

Noah is also hurt again. 

surprise...Surprise...SURPRISE

Too bad.  He was playing well.
Title: Re: Manny
Post by: thebizneverloses on December 21, 2018, 10:15:23 AM
Quote from: Kam on December 20, 2018, 02:26:59 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on December 20, 2018, 12:00:47 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 20, 2018, 11:53:05 AM
Mudiay.... i'm not paying him to put this act up.

Vonleh is the keeper.

Let's say no trades, no big name signings, Vonleh resigns, Kanter walks, and we draft, say, Cam Reddish. Do you prefer a) Mudiay at 15m/3 or b) Delon Wright at 24/3 or c) trade Trier + Dotson to Memphis for Mike Conley's $30m a year deal?

Obviously C is my first choice if Memphis is daft enough to make that deal.

or D  Do nothing

You'd rather have Frank and Trier as PGs next year than bring back Mudiay at sub-MLE money? Or are you saying you'd sign Burke?

I'm assuming Burke is elsewhere next year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 21, 2018, 10:23:03 AM
A few on this forum, as with Hardaway, will never admit to being mistaken when evaluating Mudiay's potential.
Title: Re: Manny
Post by: Kam on December 21, 2018, 12:26:17 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on December 21, 2018, 10:15:23 AM
Quote from: Kam on December 20, 2018, 02:26:59 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on December 20, 2018, 12:00:47 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 20, 2018, 11:53:05 AM
Mudiay.... i'm not paying him to put this act up.

Vonleh is the keeper.

Let's say no trades, no big name signings, Vonleh resigns, Kanter walks, and we draft, say, Cam Reddish. Do you prefer a) Mudiay at 15m/3 or b) Delon Wright at 24/3 or c) trade Trier + Dotson to Memphis for Mike Conley's $30m a year deal?

Obviously C is my first choice if Memphis is daft enough to make that deal.

or D  Do nothing

You'd rather have Frank and Trier as PGs next year than bring back Mudiay at sub-MLE money? Or are you saying you'd sign Burke?

I'm assuming Burke is elsewhere next year.

The uptick in play from Mudiay we have seen.... (he looks more confident, finishing in the paint much better, still terrible shooter and defender)

do you want to pay for that .... or

play the younger kids and see what their uptick brings.

Is Mudiay the higher ceiling guy who will always tantalize with potential but semi-deliver?

I'd rather have someone more steady at the helm.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 21, 2018, 12:28:22 PM
Would i roll the dice on Frank one more year... yes.  Not Mudiay.  Frank just needs to stop being the Wizard of OZ scarecrow/cowardly lion.  He is closer to being a more complete player than Mudiay will become.
Title: Heh
Post by: carlos123 on December 21, 2018, 01:07:14 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 21, 2018, 10:23:03 AM
A few on this forum, as with Hardaway, will never admit to being mistaken when evaluating Mudiay's potential.

Which goes to prove YET AGAIN that Chico is always right and the rest of us are wrong, with maybe a few exceptions. Mr. Utley comes to mind...
Title: Re: Manny
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 21, 2018, 02:17:30 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 21, 2018, 12:26:17 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on December 21, 2018, 10:15:23 AM
Quote from: Kam on December 20, 2018, 02:26:59 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on December 20, 2018, 12:00:47 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 20, 2018, 11:53:05 AM
Mudiay.... i'm not paying him to put this act up.

Vonleh is the keeper.

Let's say no trades, no big name signings, Vonleh resigns, Kanter walks, and we draft, say, Cam Reddish. Do you prefer a) Mudiay at 15m/3 or b) Delon Wright at 24/3 or c) trade Trier + Dotson to Memphis for Mike Conley's $30m a year deal?

Obviously C is my first choice if Memphis is daft enough to make that deal.

or D  Do nothing

You'd rather have Frank and Trier as PGs next year than bring back Mudiay at sub-MLE money? Or are you saying you'd sign Burke?

I'm assuming Burke is elsewhere next year.

The uptick in play from Mudiay we have seen.... (he looks more confident, finishing in the paint much better, still terrible shooter and defender)

do you want to pay for that .... or

play the younger kids and see what their uptick brings.

Is Mudiay the higher ceiling guy who will always tantalize with potential but semi-deliver?

I'd rather have someone more steady at the helm.

Is Mudiay really semidelivering now?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 21, 2018, 02:18:52 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 21, 2018, 12:28:22 PM
Would i roll the dice on Frank one more year... yes.  Not Mudiay.  Frank just needs to stop being the Wizard of OZ scarecrow/cowardly lion.  He is closer to being a more complete player than Mudiay will become.

You don't see things Mudiay is doing that Frank just doesn't/can't?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 21, 2018, 02:35:30 PM
Allowing 40 point first quarters, or is that on Kanter?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 21, 2018, 02:56:13 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 21, 2018, 02:18:52 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 21, 2018, 12:28:22 PM
Would i roll the dice on Frank one more year... yes.  Not Mudiay.  Frank just needs to stop being the Wizard of OZ scarecrow/cowardly lion.  He is closer to being a more complete player than Mudiay will become.

You don't see things Mudiay is doing that Frank just doesn't/can't?

Is Mudiay the guy who puts up stats on a bad team tho?

Frank's unselfishness is the kind of gene winning teams are built on.
Frank has three years more runway to see to even get to Mudiay's age. 
Frank is already better on Defense.

I just like Frank's makeup more long term than a peaking Mudiay now.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 21, 2018, 02:59:33 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 21, 2018, 02:35:30 PM
Allowing 40 point first quarters, or is that on Kanter?

Its been addressed.

A 39-29 quarter can't be Mudiay's when he was a -2.
Title: Re: Deal?
Post by: PrezIke on December 21, 2018, 02:59:45 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 20, 2018, 05:42:52 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on December 20, 2018, 05:24:55 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 19, 2018, 04:32:45 PM
I'm not advocating shipping Timmy out. 

Biz is the progenitor of that narrative. 


We need him because we haven’t got consistent scorers from the perimeter but we’re a very bad and young team.


Timmy for Jabari Parker?  Do Bulls do that?

CLee and Mud for Jabari? 

Lee and Lance for Jabari?


Let's make a dealio.

I'd do any of those, but like Biz pointed out. Would they?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 21, 2018, 03:04:05 PM
Who replaces Hardaway?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 21, 2018, 03:04:47 PM
Draft pick, I guess.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on December 21, 2018, 03:05:32 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 21, 2018, 10:23:03 AM
A few on this forum, as with Hardaway, will never admit to being mistaken when evaluating Mudiay's potential.

I gather this is in part a reference to me given my comments that you responded to about Mudiay.

When he was drafted he was highly touted, but it does seem odd to me to be so confident he was sure to turn things around after how low he had fallen.

Not saying this was not at all possible, and Fiz deserves some credit I think, but not sure what you saw that made you so completely certain he'd turn things around.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on December 21, 2018, 03:15:18 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 21, 2018, 03:04:47 PM
Draft pick, I guess.

Increase Trier's minutes at the 2 and give Frank more time at point.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 21, 2018, 03:54:09 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on December 21, 2018, 03:05:32 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 21, 2018, 10:23:03 AM
A few on this forum, as with Hardaway, will never admit to being mistaken when evaluating Mudiay's potential.

I gather this is in part a reference to me given my comments that you responded to about Mudiay.

When he was drafted he was highly touted, but it does seem odd to me to be so confident he was sure to turn things around after how low he had fallen.



According to who?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 21, 2018, 04:39:58 PM
It should go without saying that you don't judge a player on his best 5 or 10 game stretch.  If you want to use that to talk potential, I guess it works somewhat.
But so far Mud's season has been very up and down.
Now he's young and consistency is always a problem for yute.
I look for sustainability.
And I'm not confident Mud will keep making tough shots, which are about 1/3rd or more of his repertoire.
He has improved.  And confidence is possibly the biggest gain.
There's also some injury concerns with Mud.  And defense.
Mud was mostly drafted on athletic profile and was largely an international man of mystery.

I think we need to wait til the AS break or the end of the season to know what we really have in Mud and where he's at, and if he's a keeper.  Does he project as a starting PG? or a backup combo guard?
We've had this convo before with Lin who had a much better run.  And more recently with Burke.

As for Tim, everyone was getting excited when he was paying well.  Then his usual slump kicked in.  The lack of consistency is more worrisome with him as he's a young vet who has been around for a while.  Also some health concerns.  He's a streaky shooter who plays iffy D.  I wouldn't mind him as a 3rd option (behind KZ & ?).  It is encouraging that Tim has done a better job of attacking and getting FT's, and taking charges.  And he's tried to pass more especially when his shot is off.  [v. CHA Tim passed up an open 3 to swing it to Franc who canned the 3 -- something Tim would never have done previously, but his shot was off and the next man round the horn was wide open too.  Smart hoops].
Tim's effort has been good this year.  And he's improved in some facets.  Long-term keeper?  For me, depends on who are PG is long-term and who mans the other wing slot.

Anyway, making declarations and projections based on a player's hot streak is a fool's game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 21, 2018, 05:36:29 PM
Porzingis will be re-evaluated again in mid-February.
Title: Knocks On Knox
Post by: chipstern on December 21, 2018, 08:43:12 PM
So...

So, can we anticipate any more snarky posts about how we blew it big time by selecting Kevin Knox instead of Miles Bridges? 

Bridges is a damn tough competitor. Really like the kid. 

But a higher ceiling than Kevin Knox? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 21, 2018, 08:44:19 PM
Good half for Mudy and Knox.

Trae Young hasn't shot much (1-4, but 6 assists and no TO).  Expect this to change.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 21, 2018, 09:06:39 PM
Frank, in a nutshell:

Beats Young to the paint, then kicks out to a guarded Kanter 23 feet 9 away.

Oy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 21, 2018, 09:16:02 PM
Fuck man.  Again.  Penetrates left side then tosses 12 feet behind him to Lee who was not in shooting position.  Eye test says there is just something missing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 21, 2018, 09:18:55 PM
Good game.  Maybe we will lose.

Huerter looks solid.  Major hops.
Title: Tanks? Your Welcome
Post by: chipstern on December 21, 2018, 10:00:59 PM
Now THAT was impressive. 

Knox completely unconscious in the first quarter, showing the complete offensive repertoire. 

Sits for a substantial part of the second...and from that point on the Knicks STOP GETTING HIM THE BALL. 

By the time gets the ball in the fourth, he's gone cold, along with the entire Knicks team.

I mean, okay, the Hawks made some adjustments, but still...

How did the BAND put it?

"A drunkard's dream if ever I did see one." 
Snatching Defeat From The Jaws Of Victory
...don't go knicks...Don't Go Knicks...DON'T GO KNICKS
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on December 21, 2018, 10:01:43 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 21, 2018, 10:23:03 AM
A few on this forum, as with Hardaway, will never admit to being mistaken when evaluating Mudiay's potential.
how did our deadeye three point shot do tonight?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on December 21, 2018, 10:02:59 PM
oh i see we lost and he went 1-6.

NY tied for most losses in the NBA.

shocking!!!

Title: Never mind
Post by: carlos123 on December 21, 2018, 10:09:50 PM
Quote from: Nagel on December 21, 2018, 10:02:59 PM
oh i see we lost and he went 1-6.

NY tied for most losses in the NBA.

shocking!!!

Zion, baby, Zion!
Title: Re: Tanks? Your Welcome
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 21, 2018, 11:25:06 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 21, 2018, 10:00:59 PM
Now THAT was impressive. 

Knox completely unconscious in the first quarter, showing the complete offensive repertoire. 

Sits for a substantial part of the second...and from that point on the Knicks STOP GETTING HIM THE BALL. 

By the time gets the ball in the fourth, he's gone cold, along with the entire Knicks team.

I mean, okay, the Hawks made some adjustments, but still...

How did the BAND put it?

"A drunkard's dream if ever I did see one." 
Snatching Defeat From The Jaws Of Victory
...don't go knicks...Don't Go Knicks...DON'T GO KNICKS

Heh

Knox was 0-7 at one point.  Got plenty of looks.

Would I have let him play 24 minutes first half?  Maybe

But he wasvwinded in the secoFiz statement was that to be a top scorer in this league requires a certain fitness level.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 21, 2018, 11:27:18 PM
Quote from: Nagel on December 21, 2018, 10:02:59 PM
oh i see we lost and he went 1-6.

NY tied for most losses in the NBA.

shocking!!!

Mudiay is the leader and must take the blame for this loss, despite his lofty stats

Tim had a good game but really rushed a late 3, down 6.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on December 22, 2018, 12:00:22 AM
Burke and Trier are missed, good showing by Mud and KK. Nice loss. Wonderful rebuild!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on December 22, 2018, 01:37:07 AM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 21, 2018, 10:23:03 AM
A few on this forum, as with Hardaway, will never admit to being mistaken when evaluating Mudiay's potential.

Imagine a poster who was so committed to their beliefs, no matter how obviously wrong, that they kept posting about it. And that they never admitted they were wrong. Would be ridiculous, wouldn't it?

On a totally unrelated note, when is Jimmer big break in the NBA going to happen?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 22, 2018, 01:42:19 AM
Wow.  Knox was terrific in the 1Q.
Lotta talent there.
Just a pup.
But he's been showing that he can play.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 22, 2018, 07:33:41 AM
 Kings come back on Grizz.

Hield 6 threes
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 22, 2018, 08:19:37 AM
Pretty clear at this point that L's are better than W's.
We're just a 1/2 game out of dead last.
Could have a Top 3 Worst record.

Any close games, let Knox and Mud and Franc try game winners.
Trier and Dot too.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 22, 2018, 09:48:06 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on December 22, 2018, 01:37:07 AM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 21, 2018, 10:23:03 AM
A few on this forum, as with Hardaway, will never admit to being mistaken when evaluating Mudiay's potential.

Imagine a poster who was so committed to their beliefs, no matter how obviously wrong, that they kept posting about it. And that they never admitted they were wrong. Would be ridiculous, wouldn't it?

On a totally unrelated note, when is Jimmer big break in the NBA going to happen?

The current plan is for Jimmer to return to the NBA when the current CBA season is over, yes.

Last year his wife had a baby and he passed.

Kobe recently tweeted about Jimmer's 75 point game and encouraged him to continue the process.

Recently its been written that Jimmer is the most underpaid among international stars at 1.8 mil.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on December 22, 2018, 09:53:15 AM
Because Kid knows things jumped on here this morning looking for an another update and further details on the greatness of D'angelo Russell.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 22, 2018, 10:14:27 AM
Yeah, I get a kick out of one game updates to tout a player.

For NYK, a brutal dozen games up next:
Buckaroos on Xmas.
Followed by a 6 game West Conf swing.
Return to MSG for IND & PHI, then a "home" game in London v. the Wizards of Id.  Then OKC & HOU in NYC.

2-10?
Knix could have the worst record a month from now.

That's
Title: Re: Never mind
Post by: PrezIke on December 22, 2018, 03:30:29 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 21, 2018, 10:09:50 PM
Quote from: Nagel on December 21, 2018, 10:02:59 PM
oh i see we lost and he went 1-6.

NY tied for most losses in the NBA.

shocking!!!

Zion, baby, Zion!

Of course, being the worst isn't as great in the draft anymore.

Bottom 5 all have a relatively similar chance.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 22, 2018, 04:21:37 PM
But is it the same where only three slots are lotteried off?
Under the old system the worst record got at worst the 4th pick.

Lets say we continue to lose and have the 2nd worst record.
If that guarantees the 5th pick at worst, with lottery chances of moving up.
Probably wind up 4th and possibly better.
I'm in.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 22, 2018, 04:31:21 PM
But will KP’s return derail the tank?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 22, 2018, 05:07:04 PM
KZ will play around 15 games or so.  (20 max, I'd assume)
Just enough so he can regain some confidence, test out his repaired knee, and remind FA's what the Knix have and will look like next year.
Expect KZ to be somewhat rusty the first half dozen, maybe on a minutes restriction -- so you can sit him in the 4Q and let our reclamations and rooks lose close games.

Unfortunately, our schedule is a bit easy the last 8 games or so.
I just think we'll rack up enough losses that KZ will be brought back late and will play limited minutes mostly.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 22, 2018, 08:18:15 PM
Someone wanted a Russel update

17.5, 6.2, 3.7

How many other NBA players average even 15, 6 and 3.5?
Title: Re: Never mind
Post by: carlos123 on December 22, 2018, 08:41:39 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on December 22, 2018, 03:30:29 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 21, 2018, 10:09:50 PM
Quote from: Nagel on December 21, 2018, 10:02:59 PM
oh i see we lost and he went 1-6.

NY tied for most losses in the NBA.

shocking!!!

Zion, baby, Zion!

Of course, being the worst isn't as great in the draft anymore.

Bottom 5 all have a relatively similar chance.

Well, they're No. 5. Lets not climb to 6.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 22, 2018, 11:52:53 PM
How'd Bradley Beal do tonight?
Title: To Be Expected
Post by: chipstern on December 23, 2018, 04:51:13 AM
https://nypost.com/2018/12/22/knicks-summer-plan-may-not-include-a-big-free-agent-splash/
 (https://nypost.com/2018/12/22/knicks-summer-plan-may-not-include-a-big-free-agent-splash/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 23, 2018, 05:31:43 AM
Teodosic.  Another Euro-PG ready to go back to Euroland a failure.
Word is a Turkish team with Roddy Beaubois and Shane Larkin are interested in him when/if the Clips let him go.

I recall a few here being really high on Teodosic.
I'm always skeptical of Euro-points.
Tony Parker, Jose, Rubio balanced by a long list of washouts.
PG is a different role over there, where everybody is expected to pass and move the ball somewhat equally.

Teodosic was okayish last year and this year beaten out by rook Gorgeous-Alexander and Pa Bev.  Teo is also 31.  Turkey-bound it looks like. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 23, 2018, 09:26:03 AM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 22, 2018, 08:18:15 PM
Someone wanted a Russel update
17.5, 6.2, 3.7
How many other NBA players average even 15, 6 and 3.5?

As for Tangelo, for most of this season he had games like Know recently.  Where he'd put up strong numbers in 1Q and then disappear.  Hell, there was even one game where kiid posted T'Angelo's strong 1Q numbers, and then I posted his barely more final game stats. 

Now, if he's started to find more in-game consistency, great.  Also needs to become more consistent game to game.  He's still plenty young.  Consistency takes time and is hard in the NBA.  But it's the difference between a solid pro, a guy you can rely on, and a journeyman.

It'll be interesting to see how Nets handle the LaVert-Tangelo-Dimwitty guard triumvirate.  I haven't tuned into the Nets in a couple weeks, and my internet connection has been spotty, but I'll try to see what's going on there.  Joe Harris has looked good.  Nice player.  Two years ago I thought every shot he took was going to go in.  Then last year he was injured.  Crabbe's quaking gave Joe more burn.  Though Crabbe has started shooting much better of late.  Still doesn't do much of anything else though.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 23, 2018, 09:59:33 AM
 Yeah......I think Milos is a proud guy who was brought in to play.  The rookie is good.  And MT didn't always stay 100% healthy in the tougher NBA grind.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 23, 2018, 10:04:56 AM
15+ game score 12 times for Russell this year.

Wall has 17

Mudiay has 6 in 20 starts

Frank - 0-and just 4 times over 10.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 23, 2018, 10:21:02 AM
Russell is 12th among PG in average game score.

Mudiay is 15th, though only starting 20 games.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 23, 2018, 11:13:39 AM
Quote from: Kam on December 22, 2018, 11:52:53 PM
How'd Bradley Beal do tonight?

I don't know.  But Oubre has zero assists again.  In a 3OT affair

Heh.

Please Suns .    don't pay this guy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 23, 2018, 12:26:56 PM
Uber also had 20 pts in around 40 mins.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 23, 2018, 12:49:15 PM
Didn't say he couldn't score

You give KO more credit than most assessments when the deal was made.
Title: Hands Across The Water
Post by: chipstern on December 23, 2018, 04:12:21 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BrlcdA-CMAABiT0.jpg)

Noah Vonleh is 6’9 and weighs 245 lbs. His wingspan of 7’4 is enormous for his height and his hand spread is greater than most players in the league’s history including Shaq’s and Jordan’s at 11.75 inches

Giannis?

13.00 inches.

Boban Marjanovic

14
Title: Summer 2019
Post by: chipstern on December 23, 2018, 04:31:31 PM
Realistically speaking.

No matter how much cap space we have come the summer of 2019?

Are we in the running for top tier free agents? 

Durant? 

Is he on the move?

Kawhi? 

Happy in Toronto or looking to go home to Los Angeles.

YES, THESE ARE PLAYERS YOU MOVE HEAVEN AND EARTH TO HAVE A SHOT AT. 

We have no shot. 

Kyrie? 

Why would he leave the Celtics? 

Klay?

Seriously...does anyone see him leaving the Warriors? 

So where does that leave the Knicks? 

Kemba?

Turns 29 in May.  Love him, but he is a fixture in Charlotte. 

Would require a full max offer.  Do the Knicks commit such resources?

I doubt it.  Besides, more than likely Hornets give him the max. 

Would I offer Kemba the max?

More to the point, would Steve Mills? 

Obviously, KP is on track for the max. 

And at this point in time, likely the Knicks will look to re-up Vonleh and Mudiay and Dotson. 

Kanter?  Hezonja?  Burke? 

Up in the air.  Depending on how they close out 2018-2019.  How much the Knicks value cap space in the case of Enes, and projections on the effectiveness of Kristaps at 4/5 moving forward. 

Moves?  Trades? 

Given the development of both Dotson AND Trier [Biz's bold trade proposal for Mike Conley notwithstanding], it would seem likely that not only is Lee on the clock, but Hardaway as well.  Both of whom would seem to have some sort of appeal to contenders where they wouldn't have to function as the bell cow and leading scorers. 

Be interesting to see if anything breaks between now and February 15, but right now, our future expectations look to center around our own free agents and the draft. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on December 23, 2018, 07:18:38 PM
---Report: Young Knicks were told not to go out with Joakim Noah---

near useless party animal. So many bad pick-ups over the past two decades, but he was the absolute worst.

https://sports.yahoo.com/report-young-knicks-were-told-220003108.html (https://sports.yahoo.com/report-young-knicks-were-told-220003108.html)

Felton Spencer, Larry Robinson, Travis Knight, Clarence Weatherspoon, Mc Dyess, Hardaway, Baker, Starbury, Curry, Jerome James, Jeffries, Randolph, Malik Rose, Hughes, Timmy Thomas, Harrington, Mc Grady, Melo, Stroudemier, Bippy, Chandler, Skip 2013, Barganini, World Peace, Dalenbert, Lance, Sasha, Calderon, Lee, Noah, Rose were other lowlights. Not to forget the five year Houston comeback tour. This is a true rebuild team for a big change.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 23, 2018, 09:09:10 PM
If we have Barrett or Reddish to go with KP and Knox, why wouldn't KD consider us?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 23, 2018, 09:11:23 PM
Really don't think there is any chance Hardaway is dealt.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on December 23, 2018, 10:04:01 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 23, 2018, 09:09:10 PM
If we have Barrett or Reddish to go with KP and Knox, why wouldn't KD consider us?

GS is a great team.  NY is a bad team.  could that be a reason?
Title: Trauma warning
Post by: carlos123 on December 23, 2018, 10:48:39 PM
Quote from: Nagel on December 23, 2018, 10:04:01 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 23, 2018, 09:09:10 PM
If we have Barrett or Reddish to go with KP and Knox, why wouldn't KD consider us?

GS is a great team.  NY is a bad team.  could that be a reason?

Nagel, stop it!

You’re being too logical for Chico.

What if he gets traumatized by your lack of sensitivity??? What you gonna do, celebrate?
Title: ???
Post by: chipstern on December 24, 2018, 01:38:13 AM
Money?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 24, 2018, 03:08:30 AM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 23, 2018, 09:11:23 PM
Really don't think there is any chance Hardaway is dealt.

This year and offseason, I'd mostly agree.
I doubt we'd jettison Tim until KZ is re-signed.
That's the top priority, and not a good look of loyalty (unless KZ isn't a Tim fan).  Also Tim helps entice FA's, who can project Hardaway as 3rd scoring option (behind KZ and the FA).  And lastly, probably another year before one of Trier or Dotson can legitimately be projected as a starting SG and a cheaper version of Tim.  Being overly yute-oriented isn't that appealing to a vet FA.  And if rumors got out that Tim was being shopped, that would be a distraction.

Then there's also the Catch-22 of Tim's play.  If he continues to slump and/or get dinged up, he's hard to trade.  And if he bounces back and plays well, Knix more likely to want to keep him. 

Of course it matters what the return would be.  Knix almost certainly looking to move Courtly.  But you could move Tim and have Courtly be a placeholder for another year until Trier/Dot are ready.  With the gain being cap space.  The mythical Tim for Wes' ending deal.  I also don't think it's easy to construct a deal for Tim.  The starting SG position has solidified significantly leaguewide the past 2 or 3 years.  You need a team that needs an SG and 3 point sniping and has $17M of contracts they are willing to send out.  A team like DET has Reg "Never Mind The" Bullock starting and needs the outside bombing, but what do they have to offer?

In any case, it's clear that Knix have an SG glut.  As Ron Baker knows too well.  So while Courtly is likely on the block, I imagine some Knix execs have questioned whether Tim is the right player going forward.
Hell, I'd say KZ and to a lesser extent Knox are the only 2 Knicks in the definite long-term plans.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 24, 2018, 03:37:37 AM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 23, 2018, 12:49:15 PM
Didn't say he couldn't score
You give KO more credit than most assessments when the deal was made.

Uber can score, rebound, hustle, defend fairly well.
Turned 23 last week.
The issue with him is how much his next contract will be.
I'd guess around 12M (+/- 2M).  Could the market push him up to $16, which would be worrisome.

Uber needs to put on some muscle.  To me, he projects as a legit starter next year or the year after.  Which requires an adjustment.  Then develop a more consistent 3 point shot -- he has a good foundation now.  Then later, he could learn to create and dish some. 

Seems the type to continue to work hard after he cashes in -- his game depends a lot on movement and effort.  But we don't really know a player's mentality, lifestyle, distractions, commitment, mental toughness -- except for the glimpses we get on court.

I don't care about the lack of assists, because he does a lot else well.  I'd rather he gain extra muscle/weight to be able to defend stronger F's better.  And become a more consistent 3-ball threat.  When I watched WASH Uber wasn't a ball stopper who'd pound or go one-on-one.  Mostly he'd get the ball on cuts or off rebounds or for catch-and-shoot 3's.  That was his role.  I thought Wiz should have had him cutting and backdooring more.  If he didn't shoot or drive quickly, he'd keep the ball moving, but usually just back to one of the stars.  Which is fine.  He wasn't turning the ball over or forcing anything.  And as an SF, I'm less concerned about passing than I would be for a G.

Uber is a young player with a nice active game.  The question is whether he can take it to another level.  To repeat, I'm more concerned with his 3 & D progression than whether he can get assists.  As with many young players these days, his next contract is a year or two ahead of his development.  So you're paying somewhat dearly for potential and promise.    Used to be that a 23 year old would be on rookie scale.  Now he's cashing in already and set to make starter money.  That's the conundrum with Uber and many other emerging yute.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 24, 2018, 06:47:30 AM
Quote
Austin Rivers has agreed to a guaranteed deal for the rest of the season with the Houston Rockets, a league source told ESPN's Adrian Wojnarowski.

Rivers will likely help Houston replace Chris Paul, who will miss at least two weeks with a Grade 2 strain of his left hamstring suffered in Thursday's loss to the Miami Heat.

Rivers and Paul had an acrimonious history with the Clippers, but sources said Paul had no objections to the Rockets' decision to sign Rivers.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 24, 2018, 08:09:24 AM
Quote from: Nagel on December 23, 2018, 10:04:01 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 23, 2018, 09:09:10 PM
If we have Barrett or Reddish to go with KP and Knox, why wouldn't KD consider us?

GS is a great team.  NY is a bad team.  could that be a reason?

No.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 24, 2018, 08:46:09 AM
"If Hardawa continues to slump...."

Scored 27 4 nights ago.

Title: A Tale of Two Teams
Post by: bodiddley on December 24, 2018, 09:06:10 AM
Repeat after me:

One game is meaningless.
One game is meaningless.
One game is meaningless.

Last 4 games Tim is 6-24 on 3's.  His supposed specialty.
Under 40% FG for the season.

After a hot start (8 games in OCt 43% FG and 41% on 3's), his efficiency has been poor.

You can mark his current slump to Nov 23 v. TOR when he scored 7 points in 36 mins on 2-15 FG; 1-7 on 3's.
3 games later he had a 1-11 stinker v. PHI to end the month.

Since Nov 23, Tim's shooting 35% FG.  Up until the last 2 games, his FTA's had taken a huge hit as well.
That's 14 games, nearly half of what he's played so far this year.  We're talking a full month of 35% FG.  So don't humbug me with a single game or some other small sample theater. 
It's been a tale of two seasons for Tim.




Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on December 24, 2018, 09:19:18 AM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 23, 2018, 09:09:10 PM
If we have Barrett or Reddish to go with KP and Knox, why wouldn't KD consider us?

Exactly.

Leaving the Warriors happens if he's happy with his two or three titles but wants to win somewhere where he, not Curry, is loved/feted/granted the legacy.

For that reason, I don't see the Lakers as a realistic option. Celtics, Heat, Raptors are unlikely because a sign-and-trade won't work.

I would handicap it:

Warriors: 35%
Clippers: 26%
Knicks: 24%
Nets: 5%
Lakers: 5%
Field (Mavs being most likely among this group): 5%

For Klay:

Warriors: 75%
Lakers: 15%
Clippers: 5%
Knicks: 4%
Field: 1%

Kawhi:

Raptors: 40%
Clippers: 40%
Lakers: 15%
Field: 5%

Kemba is the star most likely to leave, in my opinion, since just about any other situation will be better than Charlotte:

Hornets: 30%
Knicks: 25%
Clippers: 20%
Nets: 10%
Lakers: 10%
Field: 5%

Butler:

Sixers: 65%
Clippers: 20%
Lakers: 10%
Field: 5%

Dr Tobias Funke Harris:

Clippers: 70%
Nets: 15%
Knicks: 10%
Field: 5%
Title: Re: A Tale of Two Teams
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 24, 2018, 09:44:31 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 24, 2018, 09:06:10 AM
Repeat after me:

One game is meaningless.
One game is meaningless.
One game is meaningless.

Last 4 games Tim is 6-24 on 3's.  His supposed specialty.
Under 40% FG for the season.

After a hot start (8 games in OCt 43% FG and 41% on 3's), his efficiency has been poor.

You can mark his current slump to Nov 23 v. TOR when he scored 7 points in 36 mins on 2-15 FG; 1-7 on 3's.
3 games later he had a 1-11 stinker v. PHI to end the month.

Since Nov 23, Tim's shooting 35% FG.  Up until the last 2 games, his FTA's had taken a huge hit as well.
That's 14 games, nearly half of what he's played so far this year.  We're talking a full month of 35% FG.  So don't humbug me with a single game or some other small sample theater. 
It's been a tale of two seasons for Tim.

40% for the month

And year

35% from 3

Month

And year

18 ppg in December.  Nicked up a bit so makes a little sense.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 24, 2018, 10:59:54 AM
Next up, Mudman.

This article agrees with what I've said.  Mud is taking (and making) a lot of tough shots lately.  Interspersed with some bricks.  So you have to wonder how sustainable his significant scoring uptick is.
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/thats-pretty-interesting-3-and-d-not-enough-anymore-raptors-glaring-flaw-and-monitoring-emmanuel-mudiay/

(you have to scroll down for the Muddy comments, which includes clips of 4 tough made shots v. PHX)

Quote
He has never been known as a shooter, but lately he has aggressively called his own number. I have frankly been stunned by the degree of difficulty on some of his shots, but New York Knicks coach David Fizdale seems pleased with his boldness.

"I think his confidence is up, knowing that I'm going to give him full throttle to shoot open 3s and take those shots," Fizdale said. "I'm really happy with the way he's been attacking."

A third of Mudiay's made field goals against the Suns made me shake my head.
Title: Mudiay
Post by: chipstern on December 24, 2018, 12:21:54 PM
Don't have many options now, do we? 

Kemba Walker?

Remote.  Far more remote than Biz handicaps it...plus, I do not see Mills-Perry maxing him out.  Hell, people are still pooping their shorts about Timmy's contract. 

Kemba Walker IS NOT Joakim Noah, but a thousand times bitten, twice shy. 

Dinwiddie would've been my target in the offseason, but the Nyets precluded that. 

Terry Rozier? 

There's a thought. 

But at what price?

PS: The entire is it sustainable narrative on Mudiay seems a tad...odd.  He is blossoming before our eyes.  I suppose, given the up and down paradigm that IS Timmy Hardaway Jr., perhaps it is too early to...BELIEVE THE EVIDENCE OF ONE'S EYES.  Still, encouraging.  Meanwhile, time to get Trey back in the scrum, and maybe get Frank a lap dance or something to loosen his loins.  Keep the competition coming. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 24, 2018, 12:31:40 PM
Rozier isn't upgrading Mudy enough to be worth the effort.  If the price on Mudiay rises to heights we didn't expect......we can talk.

Don't overlook that the draft pick could be our starting 1 man.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on December 24, 2018, 01:33:54 PM
KD is over 30 and has been -playing in the NBA for over a decade with achy bones probably looking for a retirement nest egg. Just say no. If you have not checked the NBA has made the league faster for younger players who can run and shoot. The knix finally seem to get it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 24, 2018, 02:25:00 PM
Rozier is a genuine PG who plays D and can hit 3's. 
I think he'd bring more consistency too.
I'd say that's a significant upgrade over Mud.
Rozier could look pretty good playing alongside KZ and Knox.

Nothing odd about trying to evaluate Mud.  That's what this year is about.  If a lot of what is working for him now is making rather tough shots, it's fair to worry how long that will continue, especially since he has not been known as a shooter.  Suddenly he's a mid-range genius who hits some crazy 3's to boot.  Uh, okay.  Mud is still iffy on D, throws some wild passes, bricks some shots badly, doesn't finish at the rim that well.  My main plus for Mud is he gets into the paint well, and has become adept at planting his shoulder and fading for a short midrange.  That and his passing/vision has improved.  Is he a starter ona  good team?  How much is his production worth?
Title: Ideal
Post by: chipstern on December 24, 2018, 03:20:33 PM
Durant & Zion.

So far, this is not shaping up as a PG draft. 

I like Rozier. 

I like Mudiay. 

(https://cdn.newsday.com/polopoly_fs/1.11909339.1465838976!/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/display_960/image.jpg)

Tanks for the memory of Dave DeBusshere getting the #1 pick. 

Ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 24, 2018, 03:55:54 PM
Murray State PG Morant would be the consideration.

After Barrett and ZW of course.
Title: Re: Tanks? Your Welcome
Post by: Nagel on December 24, 2018, 04:21:15 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 21, 2018, 10:00:59 PM
Now THAT was impressive. 

Knox completely unconscious in the first quarter, showing the complete offensive repertoire. 

Sits for a substantial part of the second...and from that point on the Knicks STOP GETTING HIM THE BALL. 

By the time gets the ball in the fourth, he's gone cold, along with the entire Knicks team.

I mean, okay, the Hawks made some adjustments, but still...

How did the BAND put it?

"A drunkard's dream if ever I did see one." 
Snatching Defeat From The Jaws Of Victory
...don't go knicks...Don't Go Knicks...DON'T GO KNICKS

well said taxi man.  more to come on the west coast trip.
Title: Re: To Be Expected
Post by: Nagel on December 24, 2018, 04:22:34 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 23, 2018, 04:51:13 AM
https://nypost.com/2018/12/22/knicks-summer-plan-may-not-include-a-big-free-agent-splash/
 (https://nypost.com/2018/12/22/knicks-summer-plan-may-not-include-a-big-free-agent-splash/)

wonder why?  could it be that no one wants to come to NY?
Title: Re: To Be Expected
Post by: chipstern on December 24, 2018, 04:26:07 PM
Quote from: Nagel on December 24, 2018, 04:22:34 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 23, 2018, 04:51:13 AM
https://nypost.com/2018/12/22/knicks-summer-plan-may-not-include-a-big-free-agent-splash/
 (https://nypost.com/2018/12/22/knicks-summer-plan-may-not-include-a-big-free-agent-splash/)

wonder why?  could it be that no one wants to come to NY?

Wrong, you Nattering Nabob Of KneeJerk Negativity. 

You are fast becoming the Spiro Agnew of this Forum. 

Let's see how many of the top tier free agents leave their team for any other team, ass hat. 

"WE SUCK WE SUCK WE SUCK"

Thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on December 24, 2018, 04:29:22 PM
your welcome Dick Nixon.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 24, 2018, 04:42:10 PM
Quote from: Nagel on December 24, 2018, 04:29:22 PM
your welcome Dick Nixon.
Oooooooh

What a comeback. 

You write your own material? 

We Suck We Suck WE SUCK.

Johnny One Note. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 24, 2018, 04:46:18 PM
We do suck, Chip. Tied for 3rd worst record in the league.

We’re also playing without our best player and getting more from young complimentary players then they have ever produced before. It’s not enough to win much, but when you have no shot at winning it all, not winning much is just the thing to do.

Unless and until KP comes back and shows he is at least as effective as he was, there are more attractive destinations than NY for FAs that do in fact want to leave their teams.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 24, 2018, 04:58:32 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 24, 2018, 04:46:18 PM
We do suck, Chip. Tied for 3rd worst record in the league.

We’re also playing without our best player and getting more from young complimentary players then they have ever produced before. It’s not enough to win much, but when you have no shot at winning it all, not winning much is just the thing to do.

Unless and until KP comes back and shows he is at least as effective as he was, there are more attractive destinations than NY for FAs that do in fact want to leave their teams.

"Well I may be wrong, but I won't be wrong all ways..."

(https://iconicimages.net/app/uploads/2017/01/TW_JR001.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 24, 2018, 04:59:39 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 24, 2018, 04:46:18 PM
We do suck, Chip. Tied for 3rd worst record in the league.

We’re also playing without our best player and getting more from young complimentary players then they have ever produced before. It’s not enough to win much, but when you have no shot at winning it all, not winning much is just the thing to do.

Unless and until KP comes back and shows he is at least as effective as he was, there are more attractive destinations than NY for FAs that do in fact want to leave their teams.

Fair enough. 

And who exactly are those free agents who WANT TO LEAVE THEIR TEAMS. 

Name ONE. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on December 24, 2018, 05:10:55 PM
Kawhi Leonard

L.A.  Clippers.

PS

Fuck you
Title: Re: Ideal
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 24, 2018, 07:08:49 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 24, 2018, 03:20:33 PM
Durant & Zion.

So far, this is not shaping up as a PG draft. 

I like Rozier. 

I like Mudiay. 

(https://cdn.newsday.com/polopoly_fs/1.11909339.1465838976!/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/display_960/image.jpg)

Tanks for the memory of Dave DeBusshere getting the #1 pick. 

Ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Ironically I am back to rooting for Patrick again.

Happy to report Georgetown fouled intentionally at the :08 mark with a 3 pt lead in their victory over Little Rock.
Title: The Gift That Keeps Giving
Post by: chipstern on December 24, 2018, 08:48:58 PM
Quote from: Nagel on December 24, 2018, 05:10:55 PM
Kawhi Leonard

L.A.  Clippers.

PS

Fuck you

(https://media.giphy.com/media/HUQhHdmaySmis/giphy.gif)

(https://theadventureisafoot.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/leslie-knope-bff-forever.gif)

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/WebbedGiantHorsefly-size_restricted.gif)

(https://media.giphy.com/media/xig1JXCmS9xpm/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 24, 2018, 09:01:17 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 24, 2018, 04:59:39 PM
Fair enough. 

And who exactly are those free agents who WANT TO LEAVE THEIR TEAMS. 

Name ONE.

Candidates emerge as teams underachieve in or miss the playoffs or owners become stingy. It’s less likely for the top tier thanthe next tier.
Title: PEACE
Post by: carlos123 on December 24, 2018, 09:38:19 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 24, 2018, 04:58:32 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 24, 2018, 04:46:18 PM
We do suck, Chip. Tied for 3rd worst record in the league.

We’re also playing without our best player and getting more from young complimentary players then they have ever produced before. It’s not enough to win much, but when you have no shot at winning it all, not winning much is just the thing to do.

Unless and until KP comes back and shows he is at least as effective as he was, there are more attractive destinations than NY for FAs that do in fact want to leave their teams.

"Well I may be wrong, but ...

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/gOT0M4BW9Q9ks9U-_KKPBy3pN2hujvBMkOuqzCEdH3UlE9F0ojJ1VWQwTBc7b-UY4dDA7pO7zlt-MRYfdZau0FdGqDfcMi7Eun_dfPmwPijqyLcMKKwCwu74hABBc9EdNuIpiOlogDXHYwmEvDgEgYgWfMB-hoce2MyyN_ybjSKPPT-mJRZhi1aAWAkxkjCT1FyWxA3inDj4smYV3A9sgrY_A1l2PGVqQGz3pBqXWry-7XizF0T3siCbBFF0-Ns_pmrZUAU2MvNgbtkteyrdk87ruDoH1Euqt1EqjLB9ZsKlDvgKDe97WpbPwbewxzw3rjoy_MIExKygAIo7fPnqX3SDGl4l28uzdxKr9Ah2hfqgR25uUc5cxCYv-YBHdCVlN_l_FUuI2VppH12Wyq566jOxQLSeIXPHg0YQuZHeRTGyXbG4fuuqu1BJ-rQrIIMZz_-5upirAEchFGwuan7ic5ITu7a591dxHb6AoW7SD0SGxoQr1LKiAdAvyv5MDGUgWrsiaJoEc0TZUdsjlAPxMUBv34O-7_AK8-asoclzZmFytnHShSPXLHjkfxNbiMQvyFGQEDuMmSjme2trwxjwi87ICedyS7LVyToUtYIlcO6nB1p_UXKG99FECCeh3c1TVFBUqkampn5y2sY2ZivExqWD=w527-h444-no)

... I am not familiar with the sensation."

Granny Chip explains to James Brown, back in the day.

And, by the way, HAPPY HOLIDAYS TO ALL.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on December 25, 2018, 12:23:43 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 24, 2018, 02:25:00 PM
Rozier is a genuine PG who plays D and can hit 3's. 
I think he'd bring more consistency too.
I'd say that's a significant upgrade over Mud.
Rozier could look pretty good playing alongside KZ and Knox.

Nothing odd about trying to evaluate Mud.  That's what this year is about.  If a lot of what is working for him now is making rather tough shots, it's fair to worry how long that will continue, especially since he has not been known as a shooter.  Suddenly he's a mid-range genius who hits some crazy 3's to boot.  Uh, okay.  Mud is still iffy on D, throws some wild passes, bricks some shots badly, doesn't finish at the rim that well.  My main plus for Mud is he gets into the paint well, and has become adept at planting his shoulder and fading for a short midrange.  That and his passing/vision has improved.  Is he a starter ona  good team?  How much is his production worth?

Is that the Rozier who scores 8 a game? Oh yes 3 assists.  Look better with Franky and Lance. Gritty defensive player.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 25, 2018, 04:08:37 AM
You can't just wait for a player to blow up and then try to get them in a trade or RFA, as you'll pay heavily.  [Though that's very typical l here].  You have to project what a guy can develop into.  Hell, I was trying to trade Melo for Jaylen and Rozier when both of them were largely stuck to the bench.

Look at how the Knix Bought Low on Vonleh, Burke, Mud.  We might have 2 or 3 rotation pieces from these low level/low-risk pickups.  Which is why I think the criticism regarding signing Zonja is misguided.  It was a good calculated gamble on a guy with physical and some on-court skills.  Low risk, high potential reward.  If it doesn't work out, we part ways in the off-season.  I was a pretty harsh Mud critic, but still thought it was a good move to bring him in and see if the Knix could "get him right." 

Rozier, like Uber, is one of those guys who has shown nice flashes and a varied skillset, but are looking to cash in before they've really proved out.  For young guys whose games I like and are coming off their rook contracts and into RFA, I actually hope they slump some so they can be picked up cheaply.  Of course then the bloom is off and you have to have confidence in your evaluation and development system.  But it's to our benefit if guys like StanJohnson, Uber, Rozier (or whoever else is intriguing and going into RFA status) struggle some this year.  Nothing makes Bo more nervous than guys who put together a fine contract year season. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 25, 2018, 08:21:12 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 25, 2018, 04:08:37 AM
You can't just wait for a player to blow up and then try to get them in a trade or RFA, as you'll pay heavily.  [Though that's very typical l here].  You have to project what a guy can develop into.  Hell, I was trying to trade Melo for Jaylen and Rozier when both of them were largely stuck to the bench.

Look at how the Knix Bought Low on Vonleh, Burke, Mud.  We might have 2 or 3 rotation pieces from these low level/low-risk pickups.  Which is why I think the criticism regarding signing Zonja is misguided.  It was a good calculated gamble on a guy with physical and some on-court skills.  Low risk, high potential reward.  If it doesn't work out, we part ways in the off-season.  I was a pretty harsh Mud critic, but still thought it was a good move to bring him in and see if the Knix could "get him right." 

Rozier, like Uber, is one of those guys who has shown nice flashes and a varied skillset, but are looking to cash in before they've really proved out.  For young guys whose games I like and are coming off their rook contracts and into RFA, I actually hope they slump some so they can be picked up cheaply.  Of course then the bloom is off and you have to have confidence in your evaluation and development system.  But it's to our benefit if guys like StanJohnson, Uber, Rozier (or whoever else is intriguing and going into RFA status) struggle some this year.  Nothing makes Bo more nervous than guys who put together a fine contract year season.

Well done. 

Jerome James, anyone. 

Mudiay and Vonleh certainly not projecting for more than Dinwiddie money. 

I like Rozier.  I love Walker. 

Still, the idea of tossing wheel-barrels full of cash at them makes me nervous.  Not because it's my money, but because cap space flexibility is more than just a matter of being ready to strike is and when a Durant or Anthony Davis comes on the market, but is just prudent in terms of player development on those low risk rolls of the dice BoD has outlined, let alone for when other teams are looking to shed salary/talent, or when being the third wheel in a trade can yield draft picks, because one has cap space available. 

PS: Melo for Jaylen and Rozier? 

PPS: Melo for Kanter, Mudiay and Robinson. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 25, 2018, 11:19:49 AM
(https://a.espncdn.com/photo/2018/1224/THJ_XMAS.png)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 25, 2018, 01:46:32 PM
Looks like the funk has returned to Mud.
And non-slumping Tim is 4-17 FG.
Good thing MIL missed 16 straight 3's.
So we're only down 13.

I really enjoy watching Brogdon.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 25, 2018, 01:56:28 PM
Whatever happens, let's just not embarrass ourselves on Christmas.



Oops.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 25, 2018, 01:56:40 PM
My Christmas Wish is for THJ to get out of his slump long enough for us to trade his a$$.


*** think his old man ruined his head somehow
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 25, 2018, 02:02:32 PM
Hmmm

Statline not pretty for EM but Knicks have sure been better with him out there.

Poor Burke.  Must be about 75% health right now.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 25, 2018, 02:05:20 PM
Don't know why Fiz went back to Burke after the first half.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 25, 2018, 02:10:12 PM
Dislike listening to Billups.
Lotta platitudes.
Extends minor points on and on.
Likes to refer to himself and who he played with.
Often gets things wrong.  (said, Knox always plays at a controlled pace, when Knox was just talking about how the game only recently slowed down for him).

In other announcing news, I think Wally does a great job post-game, but his in-game commentary is just off.  Doesn't have a flow, doesn't sound comfortable, or hasn't developed a style yet.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on December 25, 2018, 02:39:41 PM
CB is the worst ever. Marble mouth, unlistenable. I came late and thought I was hearing the Lithuanian broadcast on the web, say what! Burke and Lonzo need time to shake the rust, no problem, take a week or two.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 25, 2018, 05:31:34 PM
Ahhhh...

Just settling into check out the Tatums.

Butler should go off.

Always love to see Kyrie and Jaylen play.  TJ as well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 25, 2018, 05:34:48 PM
I see Rivers is 1-0 as a Rocket, with a solid 31 bench minutes today.
Title: Kyrie Irving
Post by: chipstern on December 25, 2018, 08:17:55 PM
Terrific match up between the Sixers and Celtics.

As far as fantasy free agents go, Kyrie Irving is right up there with Durant and Leonard. 

Alas. 
Title: Re: Kyrie Irving
Post by: bankshot1 on December 25, 2018, 08:50:08 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 25, 2018, 08:17:55 PM
Terrific match up between the Sixers and Celtics.

As far as fantasy free agents go, Kyrie Irving is right up there with Durant and Leonard. 

Alas.

that was a great game, and great entertaining

Kyrie was outstanding. The guy's money.

Fun stat-he took 33 shot tonight (made 17) and only got to the line once.

thats about impossible for the amount of time he has the ball.

btw he made the T

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 25, 2018, 08:57:28 PM
Things I like:

THjr seems like he is always on the lookout for and looking to pass to KK

To counter his 2nd half swoons I noticed that to start the third period Fizz featured the offense through KK who scored some floater / push shots and assisted also.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 25, 2018, 09:25:50 PM
Kanter

Underplayed.  Underutilized.

Discuss.
Title: Excuses
Post by: Kam on December 25, 2018, 09:39:10 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 25, 2018, 09:25:50 PM
Kanter

Underplayed.  Underutilized.

Discuss.

But Lopez scored 20 in similar minutes.

Enies, great teammate and all,  doesn't make his own offense.  He needs to be assisted or score off of a miss.

His limited game outside of 5 feet isn't enough to account for what he gives up.

Bucks scored in the paint at will. We had to bring in Kornet to stand a chance.  At least he might block a shot.

Next year our top 4 PF/C platoon could be starters playing 33 minutes per: KP, Vonleh,
                                                             subs: Mitch, and Kornet,
                                                             with some small ball lineups eating away at the PF/C minutes
 




Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 25, 2018, 09:48:54 PM
D Green is an overrated mutt.

Ball doing a nice job on Steph.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on December 25, 2018, 10:05:11 PM
 Zubac is a nice player
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on December 25, 2018, 11:04:30 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 25, 2018, 09:48:54 PM
D Green is an overrated mutt.

Ball doing a nice job on Steph.
I'm not sure if Draymond is overrated, but I have him as a winner of "The Rasheed Wallace Memorial Guys You Don't Want On You Team When Things Go Badly" award.
Title: Re: Excuses
Post by: luee on December 26, 2018, 01:04:57 AM
Quote from: Kam on December 25, 2018, 09:39:10 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 25, 2018, 09:25:50 PM
Kanter

Underplayed.  Underutilized.

Discuss.

But Lopez scored 20 in similar minutes.

Enies, great teammate and all,  doesn't make his own offense.  He needs to be assisted or score off of a miss.

His limited game outside of 5 feet isn't enough to account for what he gives up.

Bucks scored in the paint at will. We had to bring in Kornet to stand a chance.  At least he might block a shot.

Next year our top 4 PF/C platoon could be starters playing 33 minutes per: KP, Vonleh,
                                                             subs: Mitch, and Kornet,
                                                             with some small ball lineups eating away at the PF/C minutes
 

If you do not count rebounds. 14- 11 has to be respected except for those who value intangibles.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 26, 2018, 01:20:53 AM
Enes has singlehandedly brought the 2-3 zone back to the NBA. It takes a special player to do that. He’s perfect for us this year in our quest for Dukies, despite improvements elsewhere on the roster.

We played a pretty reasonable first half. I cut off the replay after that.

I finally caught the Black Panther movie as background to a swirl of familial activity.

So that was Christmas. I hope it had its merriments for all of you. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 26, 2018, 08:33:15 AM
Good to see Knox with some 2nd half activity.
One thing I noticed is that he sometimes hunches down or leans with his paint shots, making himself smaller.  You're 6'9" or taller, go up and make yourself taller.  The hunch worked for him on some flip shots, but that'll get snuffed out. 

Re: Dray.
A perennial defensive player of the year candidate who leads his championship team in assists.  Probably just overrated . . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on December 26, 2018, 10:21:24 AM
Re: Dray.
A perennial defensive player of the year candidate who leads his championship team in assists.  Probably just overrated . . .

That's an okay response to Kid's assertion but doesn't address mine which is Draymond, going back to college, is one of the great front-runners of all-time.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on December 26, 2018, 11:30:42 AM
Triple double in a one-possession G7 loss to the Cavs - that wasn't frontrunning, was it?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on December 26, 2018, 12:01:53 PM
 I think you don't understand what I mean by front-running.  But you can certainly look to his getting suspended in the 2016 Finals as an example of it. 
Title: Re: Excuses
Post by: Kam on December 26, 2018, 12:02:38 PM
Quote from: luee on December 26, 2018, 01:04:57 AM
Quote from: Kam on December 25, 2018, 09:39:10 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 25, 2018, 09:25:50 PM
Kanter

Underplayed.  Underutilized.

Discuss.

But Lopez scored 20 in similar minutes.

Enies, great teammate and all,  doesn't make his own offense.  He needs to be assisted or score off of a miss.

His limited game outside of 5 feet isn't enough to account for what he gives up.

Bucks scored in the paint at will. We had to bring in Kornet to stand a chance.  At least he might block a shot.

Next year our top 4 PF/C platoon could be starters playing 33 minutes per: KP, Vonleh,
                                                             subs: Mitch, and Kornet,
                                                             with some small ball lineups eating away at the PF/C minutes
 

If you do not count rebounds. 14- 11 has to be respected except for those who value intangibles.

What season have we not had a player on the team who couldn't get a double-double?  It's not a rare thing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 26, 2018, 12:08:51 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 26, 2018, 08:33:15 AM
Good to see Knox with some 2nd half activity.
One thing I noticed is that he sometimes hunches down or leans with his paint shots, making himself smaller.  You're 6'9" or taller, go up and make yourself taller.  The hunch worked for him on some flip shots, but that'll get snuffed out. 

Re: Dray.
A perennial defensive player of the year candidate who leads his championship team in assists.  Probably just overrated . . .


Would you - if you were not the Warriors -  pay him the max and hope he gets assists on a team without three of the most gifted basket makers of all time?

Let's see his assists when he plays for Brooklyn.  He will still get some as you hope he isn't shooting much.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 26, 2018, 12:27:49 PM
I don't care if a player is an ass, as long as he's a hard-working ass (and not alienating his teammates).  Dray arguably cost GS one title with stupid behavior.  And got in KD's face which made GS very nervous. 

A guy like Rasheed let his temper and attitude diminish his performance.  He was still a good player, but could've been great.
Dray (usually) channels his emotions to play harder and better.
But it's a fair question if he's let some of this go to his head this year.

As for paying Dray the max or something hefty near it ... I'd be super-concerned.  And it depends on GS other options.  But Dray was playmaking at a high level before Durant arrived.  And I'd rather have Curry-Klay-Dray than Curry-Klay-Durant.  Though that was more true before KD started to play D and when Dray used to shoot at a respectable level, which has dropped off this year. 

But really, GS needs to keep at least one of KD or Dray.
So I'd be inclined to offer Dray a large salary but not max.
And have more leverage if KD re-signs.  If KD resigns, than probably necessary to pay Dray what he wants or close to it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 26, 2018, 12:33:45 PM
Oh, I see I misread your question.
I was talking should GS max Dray.

Should another team max Dray?
How much is his max?
$30M to start?$35M?
Knix are paying $36M this year to Tim/Courtly/the Ghost of Noah.

Depends on your cap, team structure, fit, playoff contention level.
Wouldn't Dray be perfect on NOPe?
POR could certainly use him to kick some ass.
Dray for Otto Porter?  Could he help resurrect WIZ?
I'd rather try him than aging Ariza.
Dray would be gold on HOU.
DET?  With Drummond and Blake?  They could certainly use the passing and toughness.

I don't think too many teams with playoff/contention aspirations have max cap space.  Wiz and Blazers have a very high payroll (which is why I suggested trading Porter for Dray).
But yeah, I could see Dray fitting in on some teams quite well.
Title: Re: Excuses
Post by: chipstern on December 26, 2018, 07:23:43 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 26, 2018, 12:02:38 PM
Quote from: luee on December 26, 2018, 01:04:57 AM
Quote from: Kam on December 25, 2018, 09:39:10 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 25, 2018, 09:25:50 PM
Kanter

Underplayed.  Underutilized.

Discuss.

But Lopez scored 20 in similar minutes.

Enies, great teammate and all,  doesn't make his own offense.  He needs to be assisted or score off of a miss.

His limited game outside of 5 feet isn't enough to account for what he gives up.

Bucks scored in the paint at will. We had to bring in Kornet to stand a chance.  At least he might block a shot.

Next year our top 4 PF/C platoon could be starters playing 33 minutes per: KP, Vonleh,
                                                             subs: Mitch, and Kornet,
                                                             with some small ball lineups eating away at the PF/C minutes
 

If you do not count rebounds. 14- 11 has to be respected except for those who value intangibles.

What season have we not had a player on the team who couldn't get a double-double?  It's not a rare thing.

(https://www.artsjournal.com/audience/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/arrowmont-backwards-300x279.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 26, 2018, 08:16:49 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/nba/2018/12/23/18153584/ron-baker-washington-wizards-signs-home-jersey-number (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/nba/2018/12/23/18153584/ron-baker-washington-wizards-signs-home-jersey-number)

Number eighty-four......


RON.......



BAKER........
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on December 26, 2018, 10:18:03 PM
http://www.tankathon.com (http://www.tankathon.com)
Title: FWIW if we don't win the lotto
Post by: Kam on December 26, 2018, 10:34:13 PM
Hope New Orleans gets Zion.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 26, 2018, 11:18:38 PM
I played it five times. New Orleans got #1 twice! The Jazz did once! Knicks never did better than 4....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 26, 2018, 11:25:37 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on December 26, 2018, 11:18:38 PM
I played it five times. New Orleans got #1 twice! The Jazz did once! Knicks never did better than 4....

I got Minny twice, New Orleans once, the Knicks once and Washington once
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on December 27, 2018, 12:35:23 AM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on December 26, 2018, 12:01:53 PM
I think you don't understand what I mean by front-running.  But you can certainly look to his getting suspended in the 2016 Finals as an example of it.

I honestly don't understand the term. If anyone can elucidate, I'd be grateful...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 27, 2018, 01:28:18 AM
I understand it to mean that when things are going well a player contributes and rides the wave; but when adversity hits and things head south the guy makes it worse and becomes a negative reinforcement. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 27, 2018, 01:42:49 AM
So far the Donkey ride has been pretty wild.
Doncic v. NOP: 0-5 on 3's.  But 11-12 FT.  Missed a triple-dub by one rebound.

Game before v. POR, Doncic was having a rough game (finished 7-21 FG).  Missing some shots.  And late 3Q, Blazers went right at him 3 straight possessions.  With Mo Hark scoring twice and Aminu once with Doncic getting abused.  So it's a rather poor 2nd half for Doncic, but then with 0.6 secs left he gets an inbounds pass and shoots a high arcing contested 3 from the corner while falling out of bounds.  Swish!  Game into OT.  Crazy stuff.  Kid competes.  First game I've seen where a team really took advantage of his D.  Donkey did have a mild hip injury which had him as questionable.
But the tough shots Donc hits in the clutch -- often stepback 3's -- are impressive (if a little crazy at times).

Can't wait til he ups his conditioning, learns the league, and just tightens up his game some.  Mavs might have their Dirk/cornerstone replacement.  Meanwhile Dirk is extra gimpy and fading out.  Be a great story if they make the playoffs and Dirk can be a contributing bench player.  That might be where things stand now, trying to get Dirk healthy and in condition for the playoffs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 27, 2018, 01:57:15 AM
Knix with worst Home record in NBA: 4-12.
Tied with Bulls and Suns for 2nd worst record; just a game behind Cavs.

Fizz doing a terrific job of instilling confidence, getting everyone to mins and to play hard, while losing.

A losing record and high draft pick is what we need since KZ is out.
Add a Top 5 pick to a KZ, Knox, Vonleh, Mitch frontcourt, and a Tim, Franc, Trier/Dotson, Mud backcourt.
Maybe hook a quality FA.  Search for a starting-level PG.  Stir.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 27, 2018, 10:28:37 AM
Bucks again?  Schedule-maker never did an Xmas home and home before that i can remember.
Seems cruel and unusual on the heels of our xmas massacre.

Maybe Mario will get to nut punch Giannis this time.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on December 27, 2018, 11:30:25 AM
Bo, here's the new NBA Draft Rules:

http://www.nba.com/article/2017/09/28/nba-board-governors-approves-changes-draft-lottery-system

I should have said top 4 not top 5, all have similar chances picks 1-3 having a 14% chance (#1 used to have 25%), 2nd has 12.5% and 5 gets 10.5%.

As for the worst record team, the guaranteed lowest pick is 5 now instead of 4.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on December 27, 2018, 11:39:33 AM
In other worrying NBA draft news for us...

More and more scouts I hear identify an "ocean" as a gap between Zion (who's suggested not at Lebron level) and #2 (Barrett) in terms of talent, and in general express reservations about this year's draft. I heard Jonathan Wasserman of Blecher Report on Knicks Film School call it "pretty weak" after Barrett (so picks #3 and below) as it's made up of a giant pack of players that he claims are difficult to separate.

So, if you don't get top 1 or 2 at this point sounds as though chances of getting it right with one's pick is more of a "crapshoot" and makes relying upon it all the more concerning if you are trying to use it to build a team as some hope it willl.

We're gonna need a lot of Ommmmms this summer that's for sure.

One player he mentioned the Knicks might look at - suggesting that need is then what may be the "tie breaker" if you can't differentiate players clearly enough - is Ja Morant from Murray State, as he's a PG who's a top level athlete who can pass/create/handle the ball(!) and rising.

Last thing he said, was "I think [Frank] will be successful, but not in New York."
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 27, 2018, 11:56:51 AM
Draft picks are rarely - if ever - sure things. 

The 76'ers 'process' (everyone only remembers Simmons and Embiid ... maybe Saric) had its own share of lesser picks. 

Nerlens Noel, J' Okafor to name a couple.

That is why as an organization you must stomach multiple lotteries.

In our net we've caught KP, FN, KK and another to come.

If we get a 50% success rate thats fine.  Hope for better.  But you take the good with the bad.

The 2018 draft looks like a three-run HR

the 2019 draft might only be a ground rule double

We survive on the strength of our former selections.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on December 27, 2018, 12:04:46 PM
I hear and understand that, but will KP really want to stick around for that? I think he may bounce if we don't get significantly better going into next season.

We need the higher pick not even for the player, but the hope and/or asset that they could become.

I think that's part of the problem with the Knicks, combined with high salary players still here no wherenear worth their cost like THJ and having to stretch Noah's awful contract (I heart Phil) we've really not helped ourselves.

Also, Philly had some top top top level draft picks.

I like Knox and Robinson, but no one rates them as high as some of us. They can all come good, but we also have to come to terms with Frank's future as not looking great and could become a wasted pick.

Thank goodness for Trier and Vonleh could be a decent asset/rotation player on a good team.

Kanter needs to go, but we all know that's likely going to happen anyway, but as much as I am glad to see us go with youth, we are in a very precarious situation this year/summer and it's tough to tell if it could lead to further set back for the next 3-5 seasons or a major turnaround. I think you could argue either is plausible if we're being honest.
Title: Re: FWIW if we don't win the lotto
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 27, 2018, 12:23:54 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 26, 2018, 10:34:13 PM
Hope New Orleans gets Zion.

????
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 27, 2018, 12:32:58 PM
Noel and Okafor examples show why we shouldn't be upset or embarrassed to deal Frank.
Title: Re: FWIW if we don't win the lotto
Post by: Kam on December 27, 2018, 12:47:58 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 27, 2018, 12:23:54 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 26, 2018, 10:34:13 PM
Hope New Orleans gets Zion.

????

Help them keep AD.  He needs a running mate.
Title: Re: FWIW if we don't win the lotto
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 27, 2018, 03:05:25 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 27, 2018, 12:47:58 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 27, 2018, 12:23:54 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 26, 2018, 10:34:13 PM
Hope New Orleans gets Zion.

????

Help them keep AD.  He needs a running mate.

Trading AD only way Pels get ZW
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 27, 2018, 03:08:51 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on December 27, 2018, 11:39:33 AM
In other worrying NBA draft news for us...

More and more scouts I hear identify an "ocean" as a gap between Zion (who's suggested not at Lebron level) and #2 (Barrett) in terms of talent, and in general express reservations about this year's draft. I heard Jonathan Wasserman of Blecher Report on Knicks Film School call it "pretty weak" after Barrett (so picks #3 and below) as it's made up of a giant pack of players that he claims are difficult to separate.

So, if you don't get top 1 or 2 at this point sounds as though chances of getting it right with one's pick is more of a "crapshoot" and makes relying upon it all the more concerning if you are trying to use it to build a team as some hope it willl.

We're gonna need a lot of Ommmmms this summer that's for sure.

One player he mentioned the Knicks might look at - suggesting that need is then what may be the "tie breaker" if you can't differentiate players clearly enough - is Ja Morant from Murray State, as he's a PG who's a top level athlete who can pass/create/handle the ball(!) and rising.

Last thing he said, was "I think [Frank] will be successful, but not in New York."

Ike do you get a chance to see the games?

Williamson is a freak athlete and a special player.  But others do impress.

Ask Bank about Hachimura.  He will fill you in

(Seriously though you have to like Barrett and Bol.)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 27, 2018, 03:09:36 PM
Waiting to see Murray State's PG.
Title: Re: FWIW if we don't win the lotto
Post by: Kam on December 27, 2018, 04:06:17 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 27, 2018, 03:05:25 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 27, 2018, 12:47:58 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 27, 2018, 12:23:54 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 26, 2018, 10:34:13 PM
Hope New Orleans gets Zion.

????

Help them keep AD.  He needs a running mate.

Trading AD only way Pels get ZW

We are talking about the lottery and the odds may be low, but not zero. 
New Orleans is unlikely to be a playoff squad.
Only PHX has a worse record out west!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on December 27, 2018, 04:58:50 PM
the first episode of Games of Thrones was called "winter is coming"

should have been used in 1999 when Dolan took control.

example.

Media Relations (Wikipedia)
Dolan rarely speaks with members of the media and communicates to the press through released statements or in interviews with MSG Network. In 2000, Dolan instituted media training for all Garden employees who might deal with the press and instituted an ironclad rule against team personnel criticizing others in the organization via the media.[39] Under Dolan's watch MSG implemented controversial media policies limiting access to players. Some of these measures included prohibiting reporters and Knicks' beat writers from interviewing players without an MSG public relations official present, forbidding one-on-one interviews, and excommunicating writers who write articles critical of the organization. The policies also forbid the MSG Network from being critical of the Knicks and the Rangers, regardless of their performance. Such measures were not standard practice for other NBA teams.[40] In addition, the Knicks did not make their medical staff available to the press.[41] In 2004, longtime broadcaster Marv Albert's contract was not renewed by MSG Network, allegedly because of his criticism of the Knicks' play.[42][43]

sounds very much like what's his name?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 27, 2018, 05:29:15 PM
I see with the new odds Knicks in the 2 slot have a 50% chance to pick 5th or 6th.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on December 27, 2018, 07:59:43 PM
Quote from: Nagel on December 27, 2018, 04:58:50 PM
the first episode of Games of Thrones was called "winter is coming"

should have been used in 1999 when Dolan took control.

example.

Media Relations (Wikipedia)
Dolan rarely speaks with members of the media and communicates to the press through released statements or in interviews with MSG Network. In 2000, Dolan instituted media training for all Garden employees who might deal with the press and instituted an ironclad rule against team personnel criticizing others in the organization via the media.[39] Under Dolan's watch MSG implemented controversial media policies limiting access to players. Some of these measures included prohibiting reporters and Knicks' beat writers from interviewing players without an MSG public relations official present, forbidding one-on-one interviews, and excommunicating writers who write articles critical of the organization. The policies also forbid the MSG Network from being critical of the Knicks and the Rangers, regardless of their performance. Such measures were not standard practice for other NBA teams.[40] In addition, the Knicks did not make their medical staff available to the press.[41] In 2004, longtime broadcaster Marv Albert's contract was not renewed by MSG Network, allegedly because of his criticism of the Knicks' play.[42][43]

sounds very much like what's his name?

Kim Jong-un?
Chico Cartero?
Xi Jinping?
Vladi?
Viktor Orban?
Sarah Huckasanders?

....................??
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 27, 2018, 08:06:31 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 27, 2018, 07:59:43 PM
Quote from: Nagel on December 27, 2018, 04:58:50 PM
the first episode of Games of Thrones was called "winter is coming"

should have been used in 1999 when Dolan took control.

example.

Media Relations (Wikipedia)
Dolan rarely speaks with members of the media and communicates to the press through released statements or in interviews with MSG Network. In 2000, Dolan instituted media training for all Garden employees who might deal with the press and instituted an ironclad rule against team personnel criticizing others in the organization via the media.[39] Under Dolan's watch MSG implemented controversial media policies limiting access to players. Some of these measures included prohibiting reporters and Knicks' beat writers from interviewing players without an MSG public relations official present, forbidding one-on-one interviews, and excommunicating writers who write articles critical of the organization. The policies also forbid the MSG Network from being critical of the Knicks and the Rangers, regardless of their performance. Such measures were not standard practice for other NBA teams.[40] In addition, the Knicks did not make their medical staff available to the press.[41] In 2004, longtime broadcaster Marv Albert's contract was not renewed by MSG Network, allegedly because of his criticism of the Knicks' play.[42][43]

sounds very much like what's his name?

Kim Jong-un?
Chico Cartero?
Xi Jinping?
Vladi?
Viktor Orban?
Sarah Huckasanders?

....................??

Ehhh... none of those policies really bother me.  The Knicks aren't a public trust.  They're a private company.  They don't have to criticize their own product.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 27, 2018, 08:17:14 PM
Mudy has become an NBA unguardable.
Title: Use the force Luke
Post by: Kam on December 27, 2018, 08:22:44 PM
Kornet making me forget Kanter already
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 27, 2018, 08:23:13 PM
Getting a look at current top 20 guys Garland (pg) and Shittu (of) of Vandy tonight.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 27, 2018, 08:27:26 PM
Check that - just found out Garland out for season
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 27, 2018, 08:42:21 PM
Knicks are actually playing great defense as a team!
Title: Re: Use the force Luke
Post by: PrezIke on December 27, 2018, 09:14:57 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 27, 2018, 08:22:44 PM
Kornet making me forget Kanter already

He really just needs to go and some of our fans need to wake up. Sorry, and sad as I have mad love for the guy, but he really has no future here.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on December 27, 2018, 09:15:23 PM
Vonleh doing work and showing why he's a potential long term player here.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on December 27, 2018, 09:17:02 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 27, 2018, 03:08:51 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on December 27, 2018, 11:39:33 AM
In other worrying NBA draft news for us...

More and more scouts I hear identify an "ocean" as a gap between Zion (who's suggested not at Lebron level) and #2 (Barrett) in terms of talent, and in general express reservations about this year's draft. I heard Jonathan Wasserman of Blecher Report on Knicks Film School call it "pretty weak" after Barrett (so picks #3 and below) as it's made up of a giant pack of players that he claims are difficult to separate.

So, if you don't get top 1 or 2 at this point sounds as though chances of getting it right with one's pick is more of a "crapshoot" and makes relying upon it all the more concerning if you are trying to use it to build a team as some hope it willl.

We're gonna need a lot of Ommmmms this summer that's for sure.

One player he mentioned the Knicks might look at - suggesting that need is then what may be the "tie breaker" if you can't differentiate players clearly enough - is Ja Morant from Murray State, as he's a PG who's a top level athlete who can pass/create/handle the ball(!) and rising.

Last thing he said, was "I think [Frank] will be successful, but not in New York."

Ike do you get a chance to see the games?

Williamson is a freak athlete and a special player.  But others do impress.

Ask Bank about Hachimura.  He will fill you in

(Seriously though you have to like Barrett and Bol.)

Admittedly kid, nah.

Just commenting on what I hear and read.

I'll check on those players.
Title: Kanter feels slighted again.
Post by: Kam on December 28, 2018, 12:17:28 AM
Does he think he's Marc Gasol?

--


Head coach David Fizdale opted to send the center to the bench in favor of the unheralded Luke Kornet for Thursday night’s game, a rematch with the Bucks.

When the news came out, Kanter took to Twitter and posted a face palm emoji, seemingly expressing displeasure with the benching.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 28, 2018, 12:20:12 AM
I was actualy kinda liking Fizdale's decision to just go with a different look.  In the end it made little difference in the W column, but it did worlds for player development.  Even Ntilikina came out like a different player with a more take it to the rim attitide.  I like coach for this squad.  He's great as the guy before the guy.... be nice to find our Steve Kerr.  Maybe its the same guy.  At any rate i think we are on the right path for this group and this coach.

And Enes,  get off the Twitter.
Title: Kevin Knox - in good company
Post by: Kam on December 28, 2018, 01:40:28 AM
His streak of 8 straight games of 15 or more points was snapped tonight.  12 / 6  with foul trouble.
The last Knick Rookie to post 8 straight 15+ point games was..... Patrick Ewing.
(Who also did it on Christmas.)

After a slow start, Knox is starting to show why he was a Top 10 pick. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 28, 2018, 02:09:42 AM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 27, 2018, 08:17:14 PM
Mudy has become an NBA unguardable.

Except for layups, which he can't make.
Or does that mean that he's not an NBA guard?

So if Tim is an elite scorer and Mud is unguardable, then we must have one of the best backcourts in the League.  Good to know ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 28, 2018, 02:20:59 AM
Vonleh and Know played pretty solid D on Anti-Greek.
And Kornet went all General Tsao's chicken out there.

Wimpy Days NBA:  Double techs and Kanter ejected for a terribly minor confrontation.  Worse is that it took over 5 minutes to resolve while the refs watched TV.  Nothing happened,  that could have been resolved in 1 minute.  Either call nothing or double techs and gte on with it.  I guess the delay was they decided to give Kant a Tech for a uncalled foul on the play before.  Anyway = boring.

NBA needs to learn how and when and for how long to employ Reviews.

Well, here's where we play a ton of tough teams for another 4 weeks.  Good time for Fizz to mix and match, and earn those L's while developing.  So far, who hasn't played well for the Knix this year at some point? 

Mario needs to get going.  But we tried starting him before.  if Bo be Fizz I would have inserted Mario in after the Kant-Greek dustup, and Kant leaving to get stitches.  We were down 10 with 7 minutes to go on the Road against a better team.  I would have sent a message by sending in another Anti-Greek antagonist.  Maybe get in his head a little.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 28, 2018, 03:11:24 AM
Trier and Datsun combined 3-19 FG.
Trier got blocked a couple times going to the rim against 3 guys.
Trier and Mud didn't consider kicking out, preferring to get blocked.

Geo Hill has been a useful piece.  And gave Trier a taste of his own off-arm push off.  But basically Hill is a solid bench cog, and Brogdon has slid in next to Bledsoe, allowing him to combo guard more.  Kind of like Tim Frazier and Jrue in NO, only JRue a much better shooter than Bled.  Brog is such a steady smart customer.  Probably appreciates getting advice from vet Hill who has been around.

But overall, I just don't see MIL as a true contender.  In the playoffs, teams aren't going to let Anti-G just bulrush to the rim.  [I liked one play where Vonleh dropped off 15 feet and let Greek have a wide-open practice 3 .. even though he made that one].  Their 3-Pt shooting is erratic (Lopez, Brogdon), while Middleton can get hot.  But he's the only one you have to seriously guard out there.  When their offense stalls, they wind up with things like The Maker shooting 3's. 

Nobody to really initiate the half court offense.  Bled and Brog and Greek all do some of that.  Just seems like more of a strong regular season team, than any real playoff threat.  Their bench is okay, but I wouldn't trust any of them to come through in the playoffs except for Hill.  Ilya has been around and can get hot and occasionally have an impact but is also usually quiet and chumpy on D.  Snell okay, but up and down.  Maker, DJ Flip Wilson, DiVicenzo, Connaughton, Sterling all decent young role players but inexperienced.

I have TOR, BOS and PHI ahead of the Bucks.  Who are probably more in the tier with IND, imo.  Best case for MIL is to finish Top 3 and win a  1st round series v. DET or MIA.  And then PHI has fewer anti-anti-Greek stoppers than TOR (Siakim/Ibaka/Kawhi/og) or BOS (Tatum/Horford/Brown)


Title: Re: Kanter feels slighted again.
Post by: PrezIke on December 28, 2018, 08:33:04 AM
Quote from: Kam on December 28, 2018, 12:17:28 AM
Does he think he's Marc Gasol?

--


Head coach David Fizdale opted to send the center to the bench in favor of the unheralded Luke Kornet for Thursday night’s game, a rematch with the Bucks.

When the news came out, Kanter took to Twitter and posted a face palm emoji, seemingly expressing displeasure with the benching.

Would be interesting to hear what all of our fans that "love him" because he fronts as a tough dude, talks a good game, and loves being in NY think about this.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 28, 2018, 08:47:06 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 28, 2018, 02:09:42 AM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 27, 2018, 08:17:14 PM
Mudy has become an NBA unguardable.

Except for layups, which he can't make.
Or does that mean that he's not an NBA guard?

So if Tim is an elite scorer and Mud is unguardable, then we must have one of the best backcourts in the League.  Good to know ...

Uh, THAT'S NOT TRUE.  Mudiay is much improved in finishing at the rack. 

All the Knicks missed their share yesterday, at the rack and otherwise, in good part because of the Bucks's defense, which was pretty stifling. 

We also got out-rebounded 57 to 43, which is indicative of how Bucks gradually ground us down and established dominance, after a competitive first quarter. 

Hell, neither Trier nor Dotson could find the hoop consistently, either on drives or jumpers.  Mudiay missed his share as well, but he has been creating separation and making those midrange jumpers, and getting into the paint with pretty good regularity. 

In any event, other than Vonleh and Kornet, and to a lesser extent, Lee and Kanter, Knicks all struggled as a team, shooting 37%.  Interesting that Vonleh had one of those ho-hum no big deal double doubles Kam is so unimpressed by, played good D, and had 3 blocks, for a team high +2 in 35 minutes, while Kornet, who was 7-11 from trey and 1-6 otherwise, had 5 assists in 34 minutes. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on December 28, 2018, 08:54:37 AM
Enes also is also one of the best rbs in the game. 15 per 36 minutes as a knick. No problem replacing him?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on December 28, 2018, 09:11:50 AM
Quote from: PrezIke on December 27, 2018, 11:39:33 AM
In other worrying NBA draft news for us...

More and more scouts I hear identify an "ocean" as a gap between Zion (who's suggested not at Lebron level) and #2 (Barrett) in terms of talent, and in general express reservations about this year's draft. I heard Jonathan Wasserman of Blecher Report on Knicks Film School call it "pretty weak" after Barrett (so picks #3 and below) as it's made up of a giant pack of players that he claims are difficult to separate.

So, if you don't get top 1 or 2 at this point sounds as though chances of getting it right with one's pick is more of a "crapshoot" and makes relying upon it all the more concerning if you are trying to use it to build a team as some hope it willl.

We're gonna need a lot of Ommmmms this summer that's for sure.

One player he mentioned the Knicks might look at - suggesting that need is then what may be the "tie breaker" if you can't differentiate players clearly enough - is Ja Morant from Murray State, as he's a PG who's a top level athlete who can pass/create/handle the ball(!) and rising.

Last thing he said, was "I think [Frank] will be successful, but not in New York."

Wasserman was with nbadraft.net many years ago and the site totally fell apart without him. He's definitely worth listening to. Note how he says you draft for talent first, and then need. Smart teams use tier systems, and draft mistakes come from drafting for need over talent.

While what he says about a top two pick seems sensible, I'd caution that in supposedly weak drafts, often what happens is you have a lot of busts in the lottery and a lot of surprises later in the draft. Makes it an ideal to draft to trade down or, since that is difficult, to trade out of. On the other hand, the Knicks tend to draft well, so maybe we just trust our scouting process here.

Really, the best strategy is to pick in the top two.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 28, 2018, 09:46:17 AM
Big game for Lonzo.  20-12-9.

Kings got Lakers at buzzer.


No Rondo. No LeBron.

An indication what Ball could do on an above average to very good team with no superstar (Celtics without Irving)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 28, 2018, 09:50:03 AM
Re:  Mudiay

The layup misses last year were the aberration.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 28, 2018, 10:23:51 AM
I guess Mud's whole career has been an aberration then ...

I think it's more likely that Mid-range Mud is the aberration.
And Yes, he still has trouble finishing layups, though not as bad as awful last year.  So "much improved"  off a very low baseline.  Still not good.

This article accords with what I've seen and been saying:

Quote
I have frankly been stunned by the degree of difficulty on some of his shots, but New York Knicks coach David Fizdale seems pleased with his boldness.  A third of Mudiay's made field goals against the Suns made me shake my head. He brought the ball down the court and isolated against De'Anthony Melton, making a contested midrange fadeaway as his teammates just stood around:

When these shots go in, they look awesome. The problem is that they don't always go in, and it's not clear that he can keep making them at this rate. It's still not shocking to see him airball or badly brick a 3, and he's still shooting just 54 percent at the rim, per Cleaning The Glass. Mudiay is having a career year, but most of it is because he has been one of the best midrange shooters in the league, so skepticism about sustainability is warranted.

If you follow the link and scroll down to the Mud section, there are clips of some of the tough shots he made. PHX.
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/thats-pretty-interesting-3-and-d-not-enough-anymore-raptors-glaring-flaw-and-monitoring-emmanuel-mudiay/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 28, 2018, 10:34:48 AM
Caught a 2nd half replay.
I liked that the Knix were physical with Anti-Greek.
Can't just let a guy bullrush to the rim 20 times a game.
Have to knock him down and whack him in the head a couple times to make him think twice.  Vonleh, Kant and Knox played The Greek well and made him pass off a number of times, leading to some turnovers and almost always no advantage.

Trier had some good looks that usually he'd make.  Though that 1-on-3 break where he was easily blocked was a poor decision.

DJ Wilson had a very solid role player game.  Looks like he's just about grown into his body.  Could be a Taj Gibson, Amir Johnson type, with a long run as a 6th Man.  Though DJ has some 3-ball pop -- as the evolution of the game persists.

Can anyone access and share a KirkGoldsberry chart for Mud's shooting this season? 

Don't forget we went through the same thing with Burke last year where he was one of the 3 best mid-range shooters and had a career year.  And lots of Burke's makes were of the high-degree of difficulty type. And I made the same comments about sustainability.  Not sure why Burke has disappeared so much.  Maybe we'll get more of him as Mud comes down to earth on this road trip and the follow-up brutal comp.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on December 28, 2018, 10:48:55 AM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 28, 2018, 09:46:17 AM
Big game for Lonzo.  20-12-9.

Kings got Lakers at buzzer.


No Rondo. No LeBron.

An indication what Ball could do on an above average to very good team with no superstar (Celtics without Irving)
So does that make him the "generational talent" you've been touting or merely a good player "on an above average to very good team with no superstar"?
Title: LeBron Speaks
Post by: chipstern on December 28, 2018, 11:21:10 AM
Is it just me, or is LeBron fantasizing out loud about how 'cool' it would be to play with Anthony Davis a real punkass  move? 

We have moved on from the Jordan Rules to the JAMES RULES. 

Wonder when the league moves in and slaps him, or if they just back channel it, this being The GREAT LeBron.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 28, 2018, 11:55:27 AM
Quote from: luee on December 28, 2018, 08:54:37 AM
Enes also is also one of the best rbs in the game. 15 per 36 minutes as a knick. No problem replacing him?

May as well replace him

Coach has no interest in allowing Kanter to seek his 22 and 15 level.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 28, 2018, 11:58:14 AM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on December 28, 2018, 10:48:55 AM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 28, 2018, 09:46:17 AM
Big game for Lonzo.  20-12-9.

Kings got Lakers at buzzer.


No Rondo. No LeBron.

An indication what Ball could do on an above average to very good team with no superstar (Celtics without Irving)
So does that make him the "generational talent" you've been touting or merely a good player "on an above average to very good team with no superstar"?

Watch the games and tell me.

LeBron has said Ball could be at "best defender in the league" status.

That he is also getting triple doubles should signal something to you.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on December 28, 2018, 12:12:06 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 28, 2018, 11:58:14 AM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on December 28, 2018, 10:48:55 AM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 28, 2018, 09:46:17 AM
Big game for Lonzo.  20-12-9.

Kings got Lakers at buzzer.


No Rondo. No LeBron.

An indication what Ball could do on an above average to very good team with no superstar (Celtics without Irving)
So does that make him the "generational talent" you've been touting or merely a good player "on an above average to very good team with no superstar"?

Watch the games and tell me.

LeBron has said Ball could be at "best defender in the league" status.

That he is also getting triple doubles should signal something to you.
In terms of evaluating him, why should I watch the games (which I do anyway, do you?) when you seem to be telling me that his statistics are the measure of his greatness?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 28, 2018, 12:30:39 PM
Really?

At 8, 5 and 5?

I have to see the player.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 28, 2018, 12:35:46 PM
Is it your stance that Ball will be merely a good player?

If you say, "I don't know we will have to see" this pretty much is your admission that there is more to Ball than average.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on December 28, 2018, 12:59:58 PM
I think Ball will be a good NBA player and I never said otherwise. A transformational once every decade player? Hardly.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Pharoah on December 28, 2018, 01:00:37 PM
The Knicks lost by 16 but also showed some good signs with a new rotation. Luke Kornet and Courtney Lee starting meant two of the Knicks worst defenders were switched out and it showed. Giannis and Middleton did what superstars do and were the difference, but otherwise New York kept competitive on that end. It was the offense that came up a bit flat. Knox, Dotson and Trier went a combined 7/34 shooting on the night in spite of getting plenty of good looks. In the absence of THJ and Burke, with Kanter's minutes limited; those three are gonna be the guys Fiz needs to step up.

Mudiay: It's really been almost one for one with Emmanuel Mudiay trading good for light performances. This one wasn't bad but certainly wasn't good for the starting PG. Mudiay went 6/15 and 0/3 from three on the night, posting 13 points, 6 assists and 3 boards on a night where very little came easy. The passing was absolutely the nicest touch for Mud, he had some legit dimes early on in this game with the open floor spacing and four shooters out there. The Bucks length really took away from him though; Mudiay got into the lane but settled for inside jumpers often with forgettable results. If anyone should benefit from Kornet starting, Mudiay is the guy. He's gonna get inside and have every kickout option, but this match-up held him in check.

Lee: Courtney Lee looked like his typical self for the most part putting up 9 points, 2 assists and 2 boards in 23 minutes on 4/7. He was steady, didn't force anything and made shots when they were available. Lee also added in 2 steals. The one thing missing was his three ball (0/2). Overall though, it looks like we're getting Lee back for real now and that gives Fiz more options on the wing.

Knox: Kevin Knox struggled with his shot all night, exemplified by going 3/6 from the free throw line. The 15 point streak ended with Knox putting up 12 points and 6 boards on 6/15 shooting and a rough 1/6 from three. By the end of the game, the rookie looked fatigued and that makes sense because he was out there for 39 minutes. In spite of battling his own shot all night, Knox did have some really nice makes. The Bucks closed hard on him and he used pump fakes to get open for a few makes. There was also another near dunk that Giannis blocked. Yes, Knox keeps just barely missing these slams; but he can take off from pretty far out and that's before one of these personal trainers starts building his physique. The last knock is his lack of assists, but I never got the sense he was forcing or hogging the rock. It's still a point of improvement though.

Vonleh: Noah Vonleh might deserve the bag that some team will throw at him. Vonleh went head to head with Giannis and held his own all night, matching the physicality of that athletic freak for 35 minutes. Noah put up 15 points, 13 rebounds, 2 assists and also 3 blocks. This all came with efficiency; 5/10 shooting and 2/3 from three point range though it was marred by 4 TO's. Defensively, Vonleh backed off far and challenged Giannis to shoot. It was the transition that helped Greek Freak post great efficiency and scoring but in the halfcourt, Vonleh met him and competed. We also got some ole Noah Vonleh post ups which are straight up bully ball with just a pinch of finesse. It was fun to see and I really do hope the Knicks find a way to keep him long term. He's 23 years old guys!

Kornet: So if you're gonna be a big man that hangs around the perimeter, I demand that you shoot just below Steve Novak's absurd numbers. That's what I expect from a 7 footer that can't hang inside! And Luke Kornet gave us that Klay Thomas with a pituitary gland problem type game last night. 23 points, 5 assist, 3 rebounds on 8/17 shooting with 7/11 of the makes coming at the three point line. The past few games, Luke's been able to get open all the time. He just hasn't been converting at the clip that I wanted. In this one...he was lights out. Defensively, he has most of the same limitations as Kanter but a better mentality. That's to say that Kornet defends with his hands up and tries to beat slashers to the spot instead of trailing and boxing out for the rebound. That said, Kornet's slow feet got him dunked on off a blow by from Brook Lopez. He only grabbed 3 boards in 34 minutes too. If he can shoot like this and space the floor so well; Kornet has utility but in order to be a viable long term rotation player there's still more development necessary. Otherwise he's a specialist when everyone's healthy.

Ntilikina: Roll your eyes at me but Frank had a better performance than his box score suggests. Getting the negatives out first, there was a godawful TO where he got into the lane out of control and he also spent the third quarter letting Allonzo Trier force too many possessions without taking command. But Frank was better than his 5 points, 2 assists, 5 boards on 2/5 and 1/2 from three suggests. Frank attacked the lane and passed the ball really well for most of the night. He got inside and made good passes but Giannis must have flown in to block otherwise open players on at least 3 potential assists (and we're talking blocks only Giannis' athleticism could allow for). It's also just really clear that Frank and Dot are the two best players at making crisp defensive rotations when they pair on that end. This was promising folks, the sharpest Frank has looked has a playmaker in some time.

Trier: Allonzo Trier is another guard that had issues with the Bucks length and physicality. It got a bit frustrating to watch him force shots in the third quarter and argue with the refs. Someone has to rein that in, coach or teammate because he started forcing things. Zo tallied 7 points, 4 assists and 2 boards on 2/10 from the field. As much as I mention the forces, that was on 3 or 4 takes while the rest were shots that he usually makes. Whether it was the length, rust or frustration though; Trier couldn't find his shot. One promising bit was his chemistry with Dot. The two moved the ball well together in tandem and it would have shown more clearly if either one was making the jumpers they typically do.

Dot: As I just mentioned, Damyean Dotson missed a lot of shots that he typically makes. While Trier's shooting suffered from a few forces in traffic; Dot's shooting was just plain off target. Dotson put up 4 points and 4 boards on 1/9 shooting over 29 minutes playing. He was getting good looks and playing quality defense; the shot just refused to fall. It's hard to be too mad at this because it's been such a rarity. The frustrating part is that the second unit executed well overall but the shots that normally fall just wouldn't last night.

Kanter: I feel like Enes Kanter's tweet before the game last night really painted his performance in a bad light. He seemed pouty to me, not celebrating even when he made a play and then he got ejected on a frustration foul. Kanter put up 8 points and 5 boards in 14 minutes on 4/9 shooting. That's a lot of production but also a lot of shooting over a 14 minute span. His post ups should be more sporadic, especially when the ball is moving as well as it did last night. Overall though, I feel like this was just the Kanter we know with a salty mug on.

Fiz: I like the new rotation and hope we see it more. Kornet changes the spacing so much that it's night and day. Lee and Kornet made the defense better, not great but visibly more competitive on that end. Frank/Dot/Trier was a combination that showed some chemistry in spite of the scorers not shooting well. The looks were there and the ball was moving fluidly; plus the defense from everyone was solid although Trier had lapses. I found myself watching that second crew and wondering how it would look if Mitch was in. Frank/Trier/Dot/Vonleh/Mitch will be a defense to watch that I think will produce a lot of transition opportunities. So now I'm just crossing my fingers that this rotation holds long enough for Mitch to get back.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 28, 2018, 01:06:18 PM
Merely a good player.  Ok.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on December 28, 2018, 01:11:35 PM
Yep. A good NBA player. Might even make an All Star game or two along the way.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 28, 2018, 02:40:07 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 28, 2018, 10:23:51 AM
I guess Mud's whole career has been an aberration then ...

I think it's more likely that Mid-range Mud is the aberration.
And Yes, he still has trouble finishing layups, though not as bad as awful last year.  So "much improved"  off a very low baseline.  Still not good.

This article accords with what I've seen and been saying:

Quote
I have frankly been stunned by the degree of difficulty on some of his shots, but New York Knicks coach David Fizdale seems pleased with his boldness.  A third of Mudiay's made field goals against the Suns made me shake my head. He brought the ball down the court and isolated against De'Anthony Melton, making a contested midrange fadeaway as his teammates just stood around:

When these shots go in, they look awesome. The problem is that they don't always go in, and it's not clear that he can keep making them at this rate. It's still not shocking to see him airball or badly brick a 3, and he's still shooting just 54 percent at the rim, per Cleaning The Glass. Mudiay is having a career year, but most of it is because he has been one of the best midrange shooters in the league, so skepticism about sustainability is warranted.

If you follow the link and scroll down to the Mud section, there are clips of some of the tough shots he made. PHX.
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/thats-pretty-interesting-3-and-d-not-enough-anymore-raptors-glaring-flaw-and-monitoring-emmanuel-mudiay/

Making tough shots is a positive

I have always seen EM as a scorer, not a great (classic) shooter.

Not unlike so many scoring points coming before him.

19.7 points per 36
(16.1 career)

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 28, 2018, 03:22:37 PM
Only 52 current players average 20
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 28, 2018, 03:46:30 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 28, 2018, 03:11:24 AM
Trier and Datsun combined 3-19 FG.

but they were on the floor when the knicks had some of their best defensive stands.  Along with Frank and  Vonleh.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 28, 2018, 04:37:12 PM
Quote from: luee on December 28, 2018, 08:54:37 AM
Enes also is also one of the best rbs in the game. 15 per 36 minutes as a knick. No problem replacing him?

OMG.  Nobody cares about his inflated empty stat padding.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 28, 2018, 05:43:29 PM
Even at 15 rebounds in 36 minutes....  (Nobody plays 36 minutes) You're paying more than a million per rebound.

If you're a big who can't block/alter shots and can't stretch the floor on offense... your salary ceiling is like...  10 mil.


We don't have that to spend on a guy who has one skill.

Title: Rebounder
Post by: Kam on December 28, 2018, 05:44:34 PM
The easiest skill to replace.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on December 28, 2018, 05:51:39 PM
Mud is evolving from a talented but overrated draft bust into a possible quality starting NBA pg before our eyes. Yes rebounds do count. Empty stat.? Only looks bad because he gets no help on knix. He worked well with KP. Another empty stat. no one on knix is close in RBs. Not in the same time zone even! He does have very good inside scoring skills when he is not the only one to defend. Yes everyone in the NBA is grossly overpaid by real life standards.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 28, 2018, 06:26:38 PM
Quote from: luee on December 28, 2018, 05:51:39 PM
Yes rebounds do count. Empty stat.? Only looks bad because he gets no help on knix. He worked well with KP.

Most 6'10 NBA guys can stand near the hoop (cuz he has no outside shot) and get rebounds. 

Kurt Thomas and David Lee gave us the same with MORE benefits like outside shooting.

We can pick up Bro Lopez and actually stretch the floor. He got 3 mil.

Or try to bring back Kyle O.... he got 4 mil.

Kanter is NOT worth more.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on December 28, 2018, 06:57:52 PM
36 minutes out of 48 is the statistical standard used for comparisons of starters. No one plays 48 minutes and the numbers are skewered when comparing part timers.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 28, 2018, 06:59:00 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 28, 2018, 04:37:12 PM
Quote from: luee on December 28, 2018, 08:54:37 AM
Enes also is also one of the best rbs in the game. 15 per 36 minutes as a knick. No problem replacing him?

OMG.  Nobody cares about his inflated empty stat padding.

Rebounds often a result of.... "Well, someone needs to grab the missed shots".  The tough second chance offensive variety of more importance

I know you aren't saying points and shoiting % aren't conducive to winning.
Title: Kam and Kan(ter)
Post by: carlos123 on December 28, 2018, 07:23:22 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 28, 2018, 04:37:12 PM
Quote from: luee on December 28, 2018, 08:54:37 AM
Enes also is also one of the best rbs in the game. 15 per 36 minutes as a knick. No problem replacing him?

OMG.  Kam cares not about his inflated empty stat padding...

... or anything else Enes does for that matter.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/rmVA6om_im7CSpXus23a-Q1_JRAZk9DTunkbskz0xUxarZludXllDRsAisymcJGjO7EhvJsQIPIecMkTHc7-o8nOMP3YGvfwcMSIsSD15Q2avrHWFbR6aspcQWD-2SpU6nX5W88MEzfFOgjZri1Hbf94wTqh4uY_31sTgOJb2lOW76cB3_Hwd0gosJLjA_-WqF5wEUOFWLGx6uN1N8tSQOBJX2NODIGLBUQXpLHMU5DgMuFaGN7fiSYSrx-0ntxiF_xOQFbIGsr8JpoR12Y5h07gc7BvwpYT-6BKyGZw7JMiNlZdU-eYRelRI_Zj0YNeyw51EiRmQqhc2yKrTJHj9_SvltU-FrOXaCtbxldfaJJRj016iaytmyTh4VqVD91IVpfVMB_f9OiN2W2SLAELv1TB3SwhCvxs049FSxxs5W4jrO0-HhMbttncze_UWpomK25Wa9NZPOmgl8ZrEmCt1I9enKV5nwbYRNMybIyGqUHUfVoRUCRFEqGCLHkmhomKJYgxWlnDrd9BBYV1cMcYlaVFGqyJxedxoZ3qvbIU9LiS5ptetias1NjXN4UDwtbrA62c12YZuyeE2XV1iEr8ccbcXNiUIU5TBLHMucgq8_JsxOFpVsPurjvN8687HQyUMOgl4qNgZjrG6OyaaHVh6dvh=w1138-h758-no)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 28, 2018, 07:59:09 PM
The new mantra is that David Lee had a killer J

Heh.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 28, 2018, 08:01:01 PM
Quote from: luee on December 28, 2018, 05:51:39 PM
Mud is evolving from a talented but overrated draft bust into a possible quality starting NBA pg before our eyes. Yes rebounds do count. Empty stat.? Only looks bad because he gets no help on knix. He worked well with KP. Another empty stat. no one on knix is close in RBs. Not in the same time zone even! He does have very good inside scoring skills when he is not the only one to defend. Yes everyone in the NBA is grossly overpaid by real life standards.

Alan Hahn on ESPN Radio today cited Mudiay's team presence and leadership ability.

Interesting.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 28, 2018, 09:23:06 PM
Someone else will get those rebounds of course.  Maybe the other team will grab a couple more per game if we don't have Kanter.  But whoever else we put in for Kanter (or other Knicks) will make up most of the ones we lose.

Look what Kornet gave us .... three pt shooting, floor spacing. And more shotblocking to boot.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 28, 2018, 10:24:35 PM
Quote from: luee on December 28, 2018, 06:57:52 PM
36 minutes out of 48 is the statistical standard used for comparisons of starters. No one plays 48 minutes and the numbers are skewered when comparing part timers.

Yes, but I always thought per 30 mins was better, more reasonable.
It's more around what guys actually play (so what you might actually get per game).  Plus it is easy to adjust the numbers up or down slightly to relate to actual minutes.  Per 36 makes the numbers sound inflated for all but guys playing more than 36 mins.  ie. Most guys.

30 also an easy number to work with.  So for a guy averaging around 10, 15 or 20 mins, you can adjust to per 30 in your head easily.  Not sure why per 36 became the standard.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 28, 2018, 11:46:53 PM
Suns played Thunder even for 3Q's before falling apart in the final frame. 

A weak offensive game for Uber, who didn't look confident in his 3's.  At least one missed corner 3 he followed and tipped the rebound to a teammate.  But Uber did play good D.  Westbrook went for 17-29 FG.  But by my count Westbrook was 0-5 FG when guarded by Uber.  Once Rustbrook drove baseline past Uber who recovered and knocked the ball out of Westbrook's hands as he tried for a layup.  And PHX got possession.   But it was Shroder who led the 4Q push, with some 3's and dishes to Adams.

Uber did have a PHX high +/-.
Funny to see Fatty Felt and Craw guarding each other some.
Old time Knick throwback stuff.
Nerlens Xmas had a pretty good game.
4 steals in 13 mins, including picking Craw when he danced at the 3-point line.  Ftaher Noel had a block and 2 steals as well.

First I've really seen Bridges.  He looked good.  Guarded that Shroder cat in the 2Q & 3Q.  Also Westbrook some.  Looked versatile.  An solid 3-8 on triples, despite missing one or two open shots.  5-10 FG.  Filled the sheet: 3 Boards, 2 Blocks, 2 Steals, 2 Assists.  Was nicely active on both ends.  Good player.

Josh Jackson looked athletic but kind of lost.  Had 4 turnovers.  Kind of the anti-Bridges.  PHX has to be concerned that his shooting = 39% / 29% / 63% with an equal number of turnovers and assists.
Not panic time, but Jax is coming up on 22 real soon, and needs to find a game.  They've seen this play out with Chriss and Bender.  Worrisome.

Checking his splits, he's been much better off the bench than starting.  So let him gain confidence against 2nd units.  And oddly he's shot 40% on 3's at Home but just 17.5% on the Road.  And in PHX's 9 wins his offense has been terrific.  And awful in their 26 losses.  So a few minor silver linings.  I didn't realize he's just 6'8" -- I thought he was 6'9" or 10"
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 29, 2018, 05:28:18 AM
I think with reps that Vonleh and Kornet can be a very effective two-way frontcourt pairing. Mitch will be another piece of that puzzle. Add a healthy and still somewhat mobile KP as well, and you have the basis of a very serious set of bigs. Knox and Dot are already rotation level wings, as is a more advanced Hardaway. Unless Mudiay can further tighten up his game on both ends, I don’t want him as a long term starter but I’m fine with him starting this season and being 3rd or 4th guard down the line. Frank and Zo are nearing that level as well. I’d hold off on most FAs to let those three develop.

Everyone else is more or less filler.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 29, 2018, 08:24:00 AM
They've had Bernard mentoring Knox some.
I'd bring in Kurt Thomas to talk and work with Vonleh.
Maybe Sheed as well.

If Vonleh can be our starting PF next to KZ, Knix are one step ahead.
Kornet/Mitch as very different backup C's.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on December 29, 2018, 08:41:40 AM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on December 28, 2018, 12:59:58 PM
I think Ball will be a good NBA player and I never said otherwise. A transformational once every decade player? Hardly.

Exactly.

Same with Ben Simmons.

Both will be all-stars, but neither is going to be Anthony Davis that their proponents may think.

(I play basketball with a Laker fan who talks about Lonzo like Kiid does, btw. It's not a niche opinion)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 29, 2018, 09:36:54 AM
Yeah.  He watches the games.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 29, 2018, 09:40:15 AM
I don't have a problem at all with the take that Lonzo will reach All Star status  but fall short of what you would call a Hall of Famer.

That's an uptick from last year's assessment
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 29, 2018, 09:42:32 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 29, 2018, 08:24:00 AM
They've had Bernard mentoring Knox some.
I'd bring in Kurt Thomas to talk and work with Vonleh.
Maybe Sheed as well.

If Vonleh can be our starting PF next to KZ, Knix are one step ahead.
Kornet/Mitch as very different backup C's.

Sheed was in earlier, working with Mitchell Robinson as I recall. 

Love the idea of KT, though.  Vonleh has that potential.  KT was a big time scorer in college, who redefined himself at the pro level as more of blue collar kind of grinder. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on December 29, 2018, 09:47:12 AM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 29, 2018, 09:40:15 AM
I don't have a problem at all with the take that Lonzo will reach All Star status  but fall short of what you would call a Hall of Famer.

That's an uptick from last year's assessment
No it's not.   Nothing Ball has done in the NBA so far has caused an "uptick" in my "assessment."  But, if you want to make things up, feel free. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 29, 2018, 10:24:17 AM
KT could mentor Vonleh.
Another option: LJ.

Both would have a lot to impart.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on December 29, 2018, 11:19:08 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on December 29, 2018, 08:41:40 AM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on December 28, 2018, 12:59:58 PM
I think Ball will be a good NBA player and I never said otherwise. A transformational once every decade player? Hardly.

Exactly.

Same with Ben Simmons.

Both will be all-stars, but neither is going to be Anthony Davis that their proponents may think.

(I play basketball with a Laker fan who talks about Lonzo like Kiid does, btw. It's not a niche opinion)

Simmons is very talented, but he needs, and the 76ers need him to have a decent outside shot. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 29, 2018, 11:36:51 AM
Caught IND dismantling DET.
At the end they were just toying with them, and for some reason Blake was still in down 30 with 6 mins to play, and -30 with 4 mins to play, then I stopped watching.
Blake had a rough time with 7 turnovers.
Got outhustled too.

Thad Young played Blake well.
On one play Thad had two terrific hustle plays on opposite sides of the court a few seconds apart.  going to the floor to outhustle a casual Blake for a loose ball, then knocking the ball off Bullock as it was going out of bounds cross court off IND.  Great stuff.  he was pumped.

IND shot 60% for the game and 70% on 2-pointers.
DET defense was so bad, one time Sabonis just dribbled casually straight up court and right to the rim.  Zaza merely pointed.  The entire lane was wide open.  One of the slowest, least defended early offense end-to-ends you'll ever see.  Embarrassing.

Collison was smoking hot in the 2nd half.  Didn't miss a shot all game.
Sabonis 19 & 12.
But DET made every Pacer look good.

RegJAx was invisible.
Drummond was good only for tip in rebounds.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 29, 2018, 01:38:08 PM
In the NBA I think it is ok to be outhustled down 30 late

Stay healthy at that point.

What is your overall impression of Jackson?  Did we miss on him or get lucky?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 29, 2018, 05:03:07 PM
I ordered it poorly.

Blake got outhustled by a feisty Thad when it was perhaps a 12 point game.

My down 30 comments were why on earth Blake was still in.  Save his knees.  Imagine if he got injured.  Gotta be smart.  Also, let the bench get more burn.  Who knows maybe they could make some dent in the lead.  But sometimes you just gotta throw in the towel and live to fight another day.

Re Josh Jax.  I saw an earlier game where he rebounded and defended well.  This game he just looked kind of lost.  But it's a poorly constructed Suns team, without any real PG play.  Also TJ & Bridges play more or less the same position.   So hard to evaluate. 

But the Suns help make the Draft For Need argument.  Jax is stuck behind Bridges and TJ.  PHX could have drafted De'Aaron Fox as their PG (instead of Jax).  And then last draft they could have gone with Gorgeous Alexander instead of Bridges.
Instead they loaded up on another 6'8" F.
(they also have Richuan Holmes and had Ariza).
Desperate for a PG, PHX went with two F's instead.
I think they blew it twice.

And when you draft the guy you think is the best player on the board regardless of position, you risk the guy getting stuck in a crowded rotation and not getting minutes and possibly losing confidence, developing slowly, etc.   It would be as if the Knix drafted an SG instead of Knox while we already had Tim and Courtly.  (which we did with oru 2nd rounder, which is different). Last year Knix needed a PG and drafted one.  this year we needed an SF and drafted one.

I think context matters a lot.  It depends on who is left on the board.  And depends on what the team needs are.  If you need everything, you take the best player.  If you don't need a starter, you do the same probably.  But if you have an obvious gap, you try to fill it if a solid candidate is available.  Suns needed and still need a PG.  They had B2B drafts where a solid PG candidate was there (both times went the pick after PHX), and instead they went with a 6'8" F of which they had some already.  they'd be a better team with a brighter future of they picked Fox over Jackson, or Shia G-A over Bridges (even if, for argument's sake, Bridges is a slightly better player).

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 29, 2018, 05:43:08 PM
Kornet starts again tonight.

For Brooklyn, they have been winning too much, so D'Angelo sits tonight after netting 33.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 29, 2018, 05:53:12 PM
Re:  drafting BPA vs need

Players piled on depth charts are still assets.

I would expect some Suns trades.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on December 29, 2018, 08:41:14 PM
Worst 1st quarter beatdown ever.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 29, 2018, 09:11:52 PM
Well its not all his fault but damn .... Kevin Knox is a -37..... in one half!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on December 29, 2018, 09:29:06 PM
Spike.  One question.   how do you feel about  buying those seats now?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 29, 2018, 09:55:38 PM
WIZ win

13-5-2 for Dekker on 6-10.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 29, 2018, 09:58:03 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 29, 2018, 09:11:52 PM
Well its not all his fault but damn .... Kevin Knox is a -37..... in one half!

Fiz has no feel
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on December 29, 2018, 10:02:37 PM
are things getting worse or am I mistaken?
Title: Spike
Post by: carlos123 on December 29, 2018, 10:07:55 PM
Quote from: Nagel on December 29, 2018, 09:29:06 PM
Spike.  One question.   how do you feel about  buying those seats now?

Spike says: “Ask the other positive pussies”
Title: Where are the Enes lovers today
Post by: Kam on December 29, 2018, 10:18:30 PM
17 minutes
0-6 fg


0 pts
4 rebs

Now of those 4 rebounds three were offensive.  That is a big negative - not a positive as some may think.
Defensive rebounds are what give your team possession.  He only snagged one.
Those 3 offensive rebounds were worth ZERO as he went scoreless (he rarely gets an offensive board and  does anything but shoot it himself)

So in summation: no points, four rebounds  (only one of which was consequential)

Face Palm em0ji indeed
Title: Re: Where are the Enes lovers today
Post by: Kam on December 29, 2018, 10:21:56 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 29, 2018, 10:18:30 PM
17 minutes
0-6 fg


0 pts
4 rebs

Now of those 4 rebounds three were offensive.  That is a big negative - not a positive as some may think.
Defensive rebounds are what give your team possession.  He only snagged one.
Those 3 offensive rebounds were worth ZERO as he went scoreless (he rarely gets an offensive board and  does anything but shoot it himself)

So in summation: no points, four rebounds  (only one of which was consequential)

Face Palm em0ji indeed

Sorry....
 I failed to mention his per 36 tonight was:  0 pts and 2.1 def boards.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 29, 2018, 10:30:11 PM
The game was lost before Enes checked in. Kornet was flat out embarrassing. Gobert had like six dunks in that time, looked like the kid standing under the Pinata when it busted open.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 29, 2018, 10:31:28 PM
Another solid game for Mudy.
Title: Re: Where are the Enes lovers today
Post by: carlos123 on December 29, 2018, 10:46:30 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 29, 2018, 10:21:56 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 29, 2018, 10:18:30 PM
17 minutes

Face Palm em0ji indeed

Sorry....
 I failed to mention his per 36 tonight was:  0 pts and 2.1 def boards.

Lovers are here, same as the hater.

U still a nice kid though.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 29, 2018, 10:56:35 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on December 29, 2018, 10:30:11 PM
The game was lost before Enes checked in. Kornet was flat out embarrassing. Gobert had like six dunks in that time, looked like the kid standing under the Pinata when it busted open.

Kornet is basically a rookie.  Embarassing vs Gobert? OK.  How would we  describe Enes tonight...  Humiliating?  Depressing?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 29, 2018, 10:57:47 PM
Kam gets Booooed.
One game doesn't mean squat.
And you're argument hasn't been that Kant disappears or is inconsistent.  But rather that his consistently big numbers are empty.  Seizing on one off game is bush league stuff.  You could get demoted to the Nets forum for such.

I get that Fizz started to start Kornet and wanted to keep that going.  But doesn't Gobert require Kanter's beef, and it is his former team, etc.  Well, I didn't see the game and Kornets #'s and +/- look fine.

Again, didn't see minute one, but sure looks like Mud's counterpart, the erratic Exum, killed us with 13 & 13.
The usual Knickiller Jingles looks quiet.

Looks like our bench (Frank/Kant/etc) got killed.
Why would Knox play 41 mins, when almost every game he fades and looks fatigued in the 2nd half?  Kid is just 19.  Doesn't have 41 min a night stamina, and the Knix got blown out by 32...   Strange choice by Fizz.  (I guess Lance & Mario were particularly ineffective?)
Tim with 5 apple turnovers and nary an assist probably didn't help the cause ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 29, 2018, 11:03:57 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 29, 2018, 05:53:12 PM
Re:  drafting BPA vs need
Players piled on depth charts are still assets.
I would expect some Suns trades.

Chriss and Bender failed to develop in crowded rotations.    Reduced to limited value.  Crowded rotations usually ensure someone plays poorly and/or minimally, and often retard development, kill confidence.  A good way to diminish your assets . . .

Edit:  I forgot about Uber.
So Josh Jax is the 4th best 6'7"/6'8" F on his team.  TJ / Uber / Mikal / Jax.  And those are also young cats: 25 / 23 / 22 respectively.  How do you develop both Bridges (NBA ready) and Jax (rawer) when you have TJ and Uber ready to go.  (both around 30 mins a night).  A 2nd lost season for Jax would be worrisome.  Jax was horrendous in 9 starts (not ready for 1st unit work), and getting 20 mins a night off bench.  So they are getting Jax about all the courttime he can handle.

It doesn't help that their PG's are 20 year old 2nd round rook Melton and 38 year old Craw.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 29, 2018, 11:18:16 PM
Trier just 7-28 since he came back last 3 games.
Maybe his hammy needs more rest or he needs to get his condition/rhythm back.  But something's not right.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 29, 2018, 11:23:54 PM
Kanter was frustrated and slightly-off, but by no means embarrassed.
Kornet was embarrassed. It was dunk-after-dunk-after-dunk. Nothing quite like it in recent memory.
Idiocy on Fiz's part.
Tone for the game was set.

Kornet must have gotten some junk baskets late when we were already down 40 and nobody cared to make his line look better.
(I turned it off long before...)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on December 29, 2018, 11:26:31 PM
No positives even in a tank season. KK and mud regressed from recent good streaks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 29, 2018, 11:43:11 PM
Wiz with 35 assists, 130 points 7 players in double figures, without Wall.  Maybe Walls are overrated . . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 30, 2018, 12:22:38 AM
The guards gave Kornet no help guarding the pick and rolls with Gobert.  Hardaway said so himself.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 30, 2018, 12:26:11 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 29, 2018, 10:57:47 PM
Kam gets Booooed.
One game doesn't mean squat.
And you're argument hasn't been that Kant disappears or is inconsistent.  But rather that his consistently big numbers are empty.  Seizing on one off game is bush league stuff.  You could get demoted to the Nets forum for such.


More nuanced than that Bo... he feasts against some weaker defenses puts up 20 and 20 a couple times... but more recently you're seeing the 12 and 6 stat line.  Fans get excited about a few good games against poorer teams and excuse his bad ones.  And how he has HELLO no offensive game.  No low post moves apparently.  Does he ever post up?  It's all clean up work off the glass.  He's a cleaner.  Nothing else.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 30, 2018, 12:32:20 AM
Quote from: Kam on December 29, 2018, 10:56:35 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on December 29, 2018, 10:30:11 PM
The game was lost before Enes checked in. Kornet was flat out embarrassing. Gobert had like six dunks in that time, looked like the kid standing under the Pinata when it busted open.

Kornet is basically a rookie.  Embarassing vs Gobert? OK.  How would we  describe Enes tonight...  Humiliating?  Depressing?

Pretty sad castration of Kanter by Fiz
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 30, 2018, 01:10:14 AM
Kanter was very helpful to the Jazz defense when he was on the floor. He impeded our drivers both in the half court and on the break. He was more successful stopping our guys from scoring than he was at stopping theirs. 

As a team it does seem like we are regressing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 30, 2018, 01:38:38 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 30, 2018, 01:10:14 AM

As a team it does seem like we are regressing.

Well earlier in the season THJr was carrying the offense and doing an OK-ish job keeping us close enough in games to feel good about the losses.

Now with a slumping/innjured THjr we are without our A1 Rocker.

Keep the hope alive.   If we had KP we could withstand such a slump.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 30, 2018, 02:41:51 AM
Mudiay, Hardaway, a top 6 protected pick protected top 3 the following year for Beal. The money works.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 30, 2018, 05:01:13 AM
Wall out for the year getting heel surgery.
Trading Beal would mean fully tanking this year.
Trying to get 2 Top 10 picks -- theirs and NYK.
I assume WAS would bargain that down to a Top 3 protected.

I assume they'd wait another month to see how the team does without Wall, and with Beal and Porter together.  ie to see if they should trade Wall.  Of course that would be better for them, but he's an insanely paid star with some health issues and hasn't shown to be a leader or one to take a team far.  There are also rumors of his penchant for a good time. 

Beal the guy they should want to keep.  I doubt Ernie is going to do that deal and give up his best player.  We could get Porter for that package.  That'd be my Ernie counter.  Howsoever, we have Knox and Porter is overpaid, though a very nice player.  If Franc and Trier were further along, I'd consider such a Porter deal.  But I doubt Ernie would trade solid Beal for a decided lack of certainty (average and erratic SG Hardaway; erratic and below average Mud; unknown pick in a somewhat weak draft, maybe postponed to next year.)  And Knix aren't giving up that much for overpaid and slumping OPP.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 30, 2018, 05:19:07 AM
Ok, Kam you have complained about Kanter's no-showing against stronger C's/teams.  But the one-game I Told You So, rubbed me the wrong way.  But I just don't get the Kant animus. He's almost certainly a placeholder this year keeping down the C position as best he can.  And less than halfway through the year, Fizz is already experimenting with General Tsao as our stretch 5.  And Mitch will be back soonish (I'd imagine). 

Does anyone have Kant as our longterm C?
KZ, Mitch and Kornet are our yute brigade at the 5.  But for now:
KZ still rehabbing.  Mitch is raw (and out with an ankle).  And Kornet a sharpshooting pup who can be banged around.

So Kant serves a useful purpose.  Absorbing minutes (and should be protecting Egg Foo Too Yung from Gobert).  Some games Kant totally beasts fools under the rim.  Great hands, good work ethic, physical, fearless, and dexterous on putbacks.  He's been fun to watch, easy to root for and a bright spot for much of this season.  Unfortunately his defense is poor and he is no rim deterrent.  And he clogs the paint on O.  David Lee's bigger Turkish cousin.

And the NBA has changed.  So Kant is most likely either a good-numbers-bad-team player, or a tough cover on a 2nd unit.  If Knix extend him, I assume the latter would be his role.  Which means he wouldn't get paid more than the mid-level (ie under $8.5M) and would be a bench/role player.  I expect Kant will want and look for a bigger payday and role than that.  I'd welcome him back at say $6M if he was willing to take on that role (I again, I doubt he wants that).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 30, 2018, 05:20:31 AM
It would be Hardaway, Lee, and a second rounder for Porter.

The Beal for Manny, Tim, and a protected first gets Washington very close to the cap next year even once they add a lottery salary if they let Mudiay walk. Hardaway is only a tier or two down from Beal for a good bit less cheddar.

Wall is untradable. Porter is nearly so. I don’t think they will have many options, but we’ll see.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 30, 2018, 05:58:50 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 30, 2018, 05:20:31 AM
It would be Hardaway, Lee, and a second rounder for Porter.

But wouldn't they prefer a genuine two-way SF (OP) over a streaky SG (TIM) who would fill in at SF, for the same money.  The only benefit is they could try to move Courtly's ending deal next year.  And a 2nd round yawn.

What if they wanted Tim and Franc and a 2nd rounder for Porter? (just talking general parameters, not worrying about who else to make the numbers work).  Do Knix want a $25M Porter?

How about if Ernie countered your Mudiay, Hardaway, a top 6 protected pick/protected top 3 the following year for Beal. By adding Mahinmi and Kanter into the mix.  The money works**. 

That would get them out of Mahinimi's bad deal* and save them real money as Kant expires.  Knix would clog up their cap, but get an all-star level young SG.
Franc - Beal - Knox - Vonleh - KZ
Burke - Trier - Dot - Kornet - Mitch
and maybe a Top 5 rook pick or the pick traded to WIZ

* Mahinmi is just one more year at $16M.  2 or 3x his value, but not  long.

** you blithely say "the money works" but you have WAS giving up the best player in the deal AND adding an extra $4M in salary, which amounts to $10M or so given their tax status.  While WIZ want to avoid the tax entirely in a losing/lost season.  So they'd need to throw in Dwight ($5M) to make the numbers actually work for them.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 30, 2018, 09:17:21 AM
 :'(j
Quote from: Kam on December 30, 2018, 01:38:38 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 30, 2018, 01:10:14 AM

As a team it does seem like we are regressing.

Well earlier in the season THJr was carrying the offense and doing an OK-ish job keeping us close enough in games to feel good about the losses.

Now with a slumping/innjured THjr we are without our A1 Rocker.

Keep the hope alive.   If we had KP we could withstand such a slump.

I think it will come out later on that Fiz was totally behind a tank.

We can't even run an out of bounds play with the game on the line.

Will be interesting to see if this changes when he gets his reinforcements.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on December 30, 2018, 01:19:51 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 30, 2018, 05:58:50 AM
Do Knix want a $25M Porter?

No. He's a nice player, but not at that price, not on this roster.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on December 30, 2018, 01:20:31 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 29, 2018, 01:38:08 PM
In the NBA I think it is ok to be outhustled down 30 late

Stay healthy at that point.

What is your overall impression of Jackson?  Did we miss on him or get lucky?

Given the contract, we're super lucky we don't have Reggie Jackson on our roster.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 30, 2018, 01:30:55 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 30, 2018, 09:17:21 AM

I think it will come out later on that Fiz was totally behind a tank.

We can't even run an out of bounds play with the game on the line.


He's doing an absolutely stellar job. Too bad achieving absolute putridity is no longer so strongly rewarded as it was in year's past.


*** The guy somehow makes Derek Fisher look like John Wooden
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 30, 2018, 01:34:02 PM
 I don't know......5/80 deals aren't such a big deal any more

And all players don't have to earn every cent statistically

It is how they fit together ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 30, 2018, 02:12:01 PM
Best coach we've had in ages.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 30, 2018, 02:18:41 PM
I think RegJax has been a disappointment.
Not an impact player, disappears for stretches (in games and in the schedule), has trouble staying healthy.  His salary isn't really bad anymore, but he doesn't really lead or deliver.  I thought he could advance his game.  I think he's mostly stagnated.  Seems kind of mopey too.
Title: Enes
Post by: Kam on December 30, 2018, 02:34:49 PM
This guy has some New Yorkers fooled... thinking he's such a great guy.

I admit he has a likeable quality at times... kind of like Borat in that you root for him to succeed despite obvious .... limitations.

But he is NOT a good teammate, posting facepalm emojis and complaining to the media while also giving them quotes about how he is trying to help the young players get better...

His disingenuity is just too much.

It was gratifying and instructive to hear the Utah fans boo Enes.  They went through this with him once already.  He hasn't learned...
Title: Re: Enes and Kam(s)ter
Post by: carlos123 on December 30, 2018, 03:49:36 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 30, 2018, 02:34:49 PM
This guy has some New Yorkers fooled... thinking he's such a great guy.

I admit he has a likeable quality at times... kind of like Borat in that you root for him to succeed despite obvious .... limitations.

But he is NOT a good teammate, posting facepalm emojis and complaining to the media while also giving them quotes about how he is trying to help the young players get better...

His disingenuity is just too much.

It was gratifying and instructive to hear the Utah fans boo Enes.  They went through this with him once already.  He hasn't learned...

Which proves that Utah fans are smarter than Newyorkers ..., according to the Kam(s)ter, that is.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 30, 2018, 04:22:23 PM
Tough to tell but if we had Jackson we might not have been drafting in the slot where we took Frank.

If we were maybe we take Monk.  Or Z Collins - or Adebayo.
Title: Re: Enes and Kam(s)ter
Post by: Kam on December 30, 2018, 06:18:33 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 30, 2018, 03:49:36 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 30, 2018, 02:34:49 PM
This guy has some New Yorkers fooled... thinking he's such a great guy.

I admit he has a likeable quality at times... kind of like Borat in that you root for him to succeed despite obvious .... limitations.

But he is NOT a good teammate, posting facepalm emojis and complaining to the media while also giving them quotes about how he is trying to help the young players get better...

His disingenuity is just too much.

It was gratifying and instructive to hear the Utah fans boo Enes.  They went through this with him once already.  He hasn't learned...

Which proves that Utah fans are smarter than Newyorkers ..., according to the Kam(s)ter, that is.

Rather, it exposes the me-first guy he is.

He has admitted he was playing this year for All-Star honors.

That don't sit well with me.
Title: Les and Kam(s)ter
Post by: carlos123 on December 30, 2018, 09:08:37 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on December 30, 2018, 01:30:55 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 30, 2018, 09:17:21 AM

I think it will come out later on that Fiz was totally behind a tank.

We can't even run an out of bounds play with the game on the line.


He's doing an absolutely stellar job. Too bad achieving absolute putridity is no longer so strongly rewarded as it was in year's past.


*** The guy somehow makes Derek Fisher look like John Wooden

Les, I knew you missed this situation, after all you like to have phun.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/tvagO1lRtSRGjznxwTtEfX52IyPFQjj2_kaRWiVydYLv9eBrEJ5QTxfVG6Gj-STdAvaiXoYcSxbMoa1-qIwC7lUWeBfro1Jift-s2AOtU2FQLHaVRry87Lt1poSfoEDegIKNJvYIzjgK--BmI_JmqNfXqPsuNpPpjPfn8e4jtKs1JOruYs-SItiUPmAkw1MKfrywHplDftj9XBe4D1_wmIiVXsf9EaMu4jPFgFKhZPK_1o24YFb9YWZ2tHG3rj2Wc3G0teHkM6jHIZOvMglNavh0wxSAmtjVG4ZrYQiFCF4iFJMD7L6YLUCtQW6GdYVD3u0XObWoUglNd22ddxXM5u5f-doGgroCuDcL_5B-qBljrCkvJwPnznyTTrIpaGGe4N4o3uiuyRmGzfw-hpfYINEuy7D2g-W2J0aYTuVswsUfmN6LV1ajtbaO2VabEYsxS4lC-0NRlxCEPB5TJNRu-zKg_VO9wkpQ0Ctqqg13SAWoo5L11UaA3ekuySEy-efZp-4_bOvEFhnULSmhPWeQV01dsh5UoFgctKabKs6yjJxpMjZBi2XeP7d97sToAe6XEPDzMT2AtnLfiK6LiopMg0NnnTriVnlEU6Ei4aHgNdSBPVqEupM_7wUfSHUgbOQ35fZ7v8wWnbtG-C-r1_ov-0o_=w876-h445-no)

But our Kam(s)ter didn't see it that way. And now he just don't like Kanter's looks, that has to be it.

While I agree with you that Fiz is doing a great tanking job, nobody could be a worse coach than Fish. Well, maybe Woodson or JVG.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 31, 2018, 12:22:28 AM
If Kanter could learn the bench big role, which requires subsuming his ego to focus more on getting guys open and cleaning up junk, he could have a decent long term career at a lower number.

If we let him go and he signs somewhere at the minimum, we get the minimum back. If he’s willing to leave 2 or 3 mil on the table to be free, so much the better.

It gives us a crack at a GLeague or scrap heap big who might be more conducive to the kind of game we want to run.

If Mitch gets healthy, Kornet & Mitch can hold it down till KP returns, or till the end of the season. The spot then could go to someone to back up Vonleh.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 31, 2018, 02:26:09 AM
selfish player, subsume ego, me-first guy, what the f are you idiots talking about?

Our coach isn't trying to win games. Players who care about winning are pissed as fuck.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 31, 2018, 09:10:58 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on December 31, 2018, 02:26:09 AM
selfish player, subsume ego, me-first guy, what the f are you idiots talking about?


Heh

Fac the Confused
Title: Dawg Pound[ing]
Post by: chipstern on December 31, 2018, 09:21:41 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on December 31, 2018, 02:26:09 AM
selfish player, subsume ego, me-first guy, what the f are you idiots talking about?

Our coach isn't trying to win games. Players who care about winning are pissed as fuck.

Agree about the idiots part. 

Not that coach isn't trying to win. 

Enes

Courtney

Lance

Perhaps Timmy? 

Are clearly not part of 2019-2020 going forward. 

Coach has been empowered to let our kids take their lumps. 

Does throwing Luke Kornet straight out of the bassinet in against the likes of Rudy Gobert betray a consciousness of guilt?  Anymore than tossing tadpole Mitchell Robinson into the fray, his shot blocking instincts notwithstanding, before he even has the semblance of a rounded NBA game? 

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

If this season is a wash, down time for Porzingis, an inevitable march towards Zion (hey, REALITY CHECK: even the worst record doesn't guarantee the #1 pick...luck of the fucking draw, and it would be out dumb luck, wouldn't it...), then hey, conduct open tryouts for next season. 

But agree with you about Kam Sandwich's screeds against Kanter.  Whatever his limitations, real or projected, he has stood up and competed as a Knick, stood up for his fellow Knicks, a team mate's team mate.  Me first?  Bull SHIT.  My personal fave of analytics being that double doubles are no big deal, and that Kanter is just selfishly padding his stats. 

This being a forum of FANS, there are widely disparate narratives at play, and several of our brothers in blue and orange have decidedly personal feelings as regards certain players...

What can you do? 

Still, I can see how you'd be rubbed the wrong way by evaluations that vector from the analytic to the hyper-personal. 

Still, Dawg, this is what a 9-28 season feels like, when the rallying cry is DON'T GO KNICKS, and all that remains are too fantasize about draft picks, conjure trades, and attach Scarlett Letters and propose public dunkings for players who are made to bear the weight of our current distress. 

Not much to hold on to is there? 

Progress from the likes of pre-hamstring Trier, pre-ankle Robinson, Mudiay, Vonleh, Dotson.  Knox and Kornet showing great offensive aptitude and growth, while getting regularly undressed on D.  Frustration as regards the up/down play of Ntilikina.  Injuries afflicting Timmy and Trey. 

DON'T GO KNICKS...DON'T GO KNICKS.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 31, 2018, 10:35:47 AM
Development, Fiz?

Why was Robinson not placed in the G League from the outset?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 31, 2018, 11:12:51 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on December 31, 2018, 02:26:09 AM
selfish player, subsume ego, me-first guy, what the f are you idiots talking about?

Our coach isn't trying to win games. Players who care about winning are pissed as fuck.

Wanting to win is fine but he isn’t capable of doing so. 
Were you a fucking sleep last season?
Title: Re: Dawg Pound[ing]
Post by: Kam on December 31, 2018, 11:43:10 AM
Quote from: chipstern on December 31, 2018, 09:21:41 AM


But agree with you about Kam Sandwich's screeds against Kanter.  Whatever his limitations, real or projected, he has stood up and competed as a Knick, stood up for his fellow Knicks, a team mate's team mate.  Me first?  Bull SHIT.  My personal fave of analytics being that double doubles are no big deal, and that Kanter is just selfishly padding his stats. 


10pts is no big deal.
10rebs is only a big deal if you're small.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 31, 2018, 11:45:13 AM
Oh ... i see... MY screens offend the CHipwhich  BUT  Enes Kanter can go on a locker-room tirade and Chip loves the smell.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 31, 2018, 12:13:15 PM
Tough game for Lonzo last night.  -20 in a win as Hart carried the mail in the comeback.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 31, 2018, 12:50:36 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 31, 2018, 11:45:13 AM
Oh ... i see... MY screens offend the CHipwhich  BUT  Enes Kanter can go on a locker-room tirade and Chip loves the smell.

He is a competitor who wants to contribute and wants to win. 

I wouldn't expect you to relate to that. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 31, 2018, 12:56:12 PM
Knicks 3-11 when Kanter doesn't start
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 31, 2018, 01:32:44 PM
Program note

Celts tonight on tv

7 pm...NBA TV

Anyone to watch on Spurs?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 31, 2018, 02:14:23 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 31, 2018, 12:56:12 PM
Knicks 3-11 when Kanter doesn't start

So, that means we are 6-17 when Enes does?

We appear to be fucked either way. 

I don't appreciate the way Enes is being hung out to dry, but Fizdale has certainly given EVERYONE time in the bucket and time to turn it around. 

I have a rooting interest in Hezonja, and am impressed by his skill set and athleticism, but he has not strung together any runs of consistent play, doing just enough to tease us about his potential. 

Still, Fizz gave him the staring nod, and endeavored to build his confidence. 

Not to the degree he has with French Frank, but for real. 

Mario has not so far responded as he might. Looking like a different player from one possession to another.  Fizz can't keep playing Knox 40+ a night, so Lance and Mario should see some burn. 

As for Frank...for short stretches he puts it all together, and you can see the package...then, he goes turtle and recedes into his shell. 

As for Enes? 

Fizz clearly likes what Robinson brings on D, and Kornet brings as a stretch 5/4.  Thus, Enes getting squeezed, as that old school style does not seem to fit what Coach envisions going forward.  Still, nice to have someone who can get you a basket in the box.  Would be surprised if he simply drops out of the rotation. 

We shall see.  Enes is frustrated.  Wouldn't respect him if he wasn't.  However ginning him up as a malcontent and speaking of the smell is smug jive. 

I've seen Enes for Jabari floated.  Robbing Peter to pay Paul.  No thanks. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on December 31, 2018, 02:47:14 PM
Not sure what you mean

Mitch has missed last 7 games.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 31, 2018, 04:10:22 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 31, 2018, 01:32:44 PM
Anyone to watch on Spurs?

Bertans has been lighting it up.  Shooting 48% from 3 for the season.
49% FG; 91% FT.

Poeltl has been strong.  5 boards in 15 mins.  63% FG (same as his FT% though)

Pau might be back.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on December 31, 2018, 04:22:01 PM
KP can get out of here soon.

no reason to stay.  NONE.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 31, 2018, 04:24:41 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 31, 2018, 04:10:22 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 31, 2018, 01:32:44 PM
Anyone to watch on Spurs?

Bertans has been lighting it up.  Shooting 48% from 3 for the season.
49% FG; 91% FT.

Poeltl has been strong.  5 boards in 15 mins.  63% FG (same as his FT% though)

Pau might be back.

DeRozan and Poeltl...pretty decent return.  Plus a 2019 #1 pick. 

Way high first rounder.  But hey, could've been worse.  A lot worse. 

PS: I believe that Poeltl is the center the Raptors drafted with...wait for it...wait for it...WAIT FOR IT...The #1 pick the Knicks gifted them in the Bargnani Heist.  I believe this was the handiwork of Glen Grunwald, White Boy Pro Temps, and Donnie Walsh's parting present to Knicks fans. 

PPS:  Cathal Kelly of The Star wrote at the time, "What was new GM Masai Ujiri wearing when he negotiated this deal? A ski mask? Getting picks in return for a cap-sagging player everyone in the NBA knew you were aching to be rid of is theft."
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 31, 2018, 04:25:39 PM
Quote from: Nagel on December 31, 2018, 04:22:01 PM
KP can get out of here soon.

no reason to stay.  NONE.

Actually I was going to make that same suggestion about you, ClipperJane. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 31, 2018, 04:30:46 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 31, 2018, 10:35:47 AM
Why was Robinson not placed in the G League from the outset?

Basically because Kornet was.
So Mitch was our backup C.
And his defense/rim protection was a nice change of pace from Kant.

Otherwise, Fizz has said he prefers guys with the team, practicing and learning, rather than G-League.  There are advantages to both approaches, but I agree I'd rather see a guy every day and know what his work routine is and who's telling him what, rather than trusting an affiliate elsewhere. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 31, 2018, 04:46:04 PM
I still think Frank would get a lot out of extended run in Westchester. He needs to lock in the things he’s shown glimpses of. He can pull double duty on concurrent home stands.

Enes needs to look at Greg Monroe to understand the future path of his career.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 31, 2018, 06:00:32 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 31, 2018, 04:46:04 PM
I still think Frank would get a lot out of extended run in Westchester. He needs to lock in the things he’s shown glimpses of. He can pull double duty on concurrent home stands.

Enes needs to look at Greg Monroe to understand the future path of his career.

Unless the Knicks are afraid Frank won't succeed there it is bizarre how we can't get him some G league appearances.
You can play a game for Westchester and be ahealthy DNP-Coaches Decision the next day --
The two aren't mutually exclusive.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 31, 2018, 06:02:52 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 31, 2018, 04:30:46 PM
There are advantages to both approaches, but I agree I'd rather see a guy every day and know what his work routine is and who's telling him what, rather than trusting an affiliate elsewhere.

He isn't -- ELSEWHERE -- he would still be here.  LOL.

It's as if you think we place him in the G League and he is transported to another dimension.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 31, 2018, 06:05:46 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 31, 2018, 12:50:36 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 31, 2018, 11:45:13 AM
Oh ... i see... MY screens offend the CHipwhich  BUT  Enes Kanter can go on a locker-room tirade and Chip loves the smell.

He is a competitor who wants to contribute and wants to win. 



When it was Joachim Noah you didn't like it.  CONGRATS CHIP!

With Enes your standard has doubled!! Yay!  Double Standard!!!


Quote
I wouldn't expect you to relate to that.

:)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 31, 2018, 06:07:59 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 31, 2018, 04:46:04 PM
Enes needs to look at Greg Monroe to understand the future path of his career.

Yes!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 31, 2018, 06:10:16 PM
Once again to be clear...

Westchester is 90 minutes from MSG


When the Knicks are on a homestand one can play in the afternoon for Westchester and be wearing a Knicks jumpsuit that evening.

One can practice with the Knicks one morning ... under their watchful eyes ... and catch an Uber and play in a G League game that night.

Stop with the outdated perception of what a stint in the G League would be like.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 31, 2018, 06:11:18 PM
LOL at the idea y'all got... Frank riding in the back of a greyhound squeezed between two fat businessmen on their way to Palooka-ville.
Title: Pay no attention
Post by: carlos123 on December 31, 2018, 09:07:43 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 31, 2018, 04:25:39 PM
Quote from: Nagel on December 31, 2018, 04:22:01 PM
KP can get out of here soon.

no reason to stay.  NONE.

Actually I was going to make that same suggestion about you, ClipperJane.

Hey Nagel, pay no attention to your friend Chip. I want you here!

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/at7OApJhR3ZRcbuLTP0946zA6b6gSMr1z0pNAVo6ta_bZvYh8CIfeLy5GnELCl82XoeFHsl0v4pB5XSUddN0o4wDBU39YCDM8MnFhEm_Q2cSfXUaDP5Ma_Mad6P9qiZgyUCJxkAp7rI_JxG4xBfSYab9yCn4LL_AddZavVCFOtZpzf6LLcI5ZJLvWUi2wzmawMgTxdwE1mYSuNRk_npQCX1CRPWnqIMQluHRPFBtL_vaIv7D-YXakb0lIUwLzYHKjQcU4C6QtgAoQu0yA877uR0DohUpUOmOLhid6cowzmwxiHIKMCEVds-aTq-eUbSuG2f0aFb6LNtB20oq1p_U51QKBbkogVc3_FORVRg_Mgsef-j5iPoccd3WrIS-jLZPCYm4Y0vegal6aoHsHiPlRAaJmlrIUERutZgocDYND1WI0MCOkpzo3rWYvhmgGsHmQ57GOx7utqOQU086T5QF2c3zZPuHaP5-Pl8e9FSC3fK071-1zlJ0YDzDhuUSL0sNv6h8gZlUcgjy96QQ0vaxNmWdfs39YUO6uBY7nGRpfeol54oRy1_GzPQxzY21cbOCwNQA2o2oWx86DNCOa5fA54Bfu1-gjZHabCOWD9wCqgneDrR25gYNKQrVnOUhCVI7dN9bTtaNVha2LwqUAQ95dVkH=w500-h375-no)

HAPPY NEW YEAR Y'ALL
Title: Viva la Franc
Post by: bodiddley on January 01, 2019, 12:02:26 AM
Why demote Franc to greenlight him?
You can simply start him for these Knix and tell him to take 10+ shots  a half.  Or alternatively, have him lead the 2nd unit with the same directive to shoot and drive.  It's not like Knix have a stable rotation to disrupt or are trying to Win.

Start Franc- Tim - Fort Knox - Vonleh - Kornet -- your scoring lineup and tell Franc to shoot and pass.  Let Franc be ball dominant with those scorers.  Then stick Franc out there with Courtly - Lance - Vonleh - Mitch -- your all-defense, quiet-offense players and let him again dominate and lead.

The true test anyway is how a knick pairs with KZ, which is still a ways off.  Maybe try to build Franc-Tim compatibility in the meantime.  Franc as a defender who lets Tim do some ballhandling/creating as well.

Re: Westchester.  You make it like Westchester Knix never have a road trip or that the Knix and Suburb NY Knix always play at Home at the same time.  You can probably find overlapping homestands here and there, but travel is the nature of things.  Anyway, my point was that I'd rather have hands-on and work with a player directly then leave it to others.  I don't think AAA ball would be useful for Franc's confidence or development. 

Just start him again and give him extended minutes.
Free Franc . . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 01, 2019, 12:32:16 AM
Speaking Frankly.
I thought this article was wrong on every count.
Writer lists 9 NBA do-overs teams would want if allowed (ie the Fultz -Tatum fiasco) and drafting Franc is #9?  Absurd. 
My comments at the end.

Quote
9. Knicks draft Frank Ntilikina No. 8 overall (2017)

This is simple: Ntilikina is already a sporadic bench-warmer for the Knicks, and even when he plays, it's not for that long and he doesn't do much with his time. This was Phil Jackson's pick, and what makes it even harder to swallow is the Knicks were reportedly very high on Donovan Mitchell, who went five picks later at No. 13 to the Nuggets (who promptly traded him to the Jazz).

The draft is a crapshoot, and in most cases it's just too easy to say a team "made a mistake" after you have the results of their early performance to guide your analysis. But Ntilikina was flawed from the start. He projects as an elite defender, and in limited time, he's already a guy who has played at that level defensively. But his offense is a mess, and it always has been, and I'm here to tell you there is a laundry list of guards who can't shoot who have gone in the lottery and wound up as disappointments: Emmanuel Mudiay, Elfrid Payton, Kris Dunn, Shabazz Muhammad, Dante Exum, Michael Carter-Williams, and on and on. Stretch it out to all perimeter players and you have Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, Justise Winslow and Stanley Johnson. Even Ricky Rubio and Tyreke Evans haven't been anywhere near the players they were expected to be. Not a single All-Star among any of those groups.

There is obviously more to a player than whether he can shoot or not, but you better be seriously elite at other things on the offensive end to make up for it -- i.e. John Wall and Russell Westbrook. There was absolutely no evidence that Ntilikina was ever going to be anything close to that kind of player. There is no question the Knicks would change this pick if they could, even with the understanding that Ntilikina won't turn 21 years old until next summer and still has plenty of time to improve.

1. "The draft is a crapshoot, and in most cases it's just too easy to say a team "made a mistake" after you have the results of their early performance to guide your analysis. But ..."

But then he goes on to play that game anyway.  Nobody knew that Don Mitchell was a potential all-star or would play like Dwayne Wade his rook season.  He went 13th for a reason (and I didn't even realize he was then traded to boot). Donovan's flaws were talked up, a bit slow, not much of a defender, sort of a combo guard, etc. 

And there was a good chance Knix would have taken Smith Jr if not Franc.  Though Phil prefers tall guards.  And Smith had the prior knee injury as a red flag.

2.  "But Ntilikina was flawed from the start ... his offense is a mess, and it always has been"

Who knew much about his offense?  I recall some were concerned that Franc didn't have a quick first step and worried he couldn't get to the NBA rim.  He was seen as fairly NBA ready for a 19 year old, savvy, confident, an orchestrator and defender.

3.  "there is a laundry list of guards who can't shoot who have gone in the lottery and wound up as disappointments: Emmanuel Mudiay, Elfrid Payton, Kris Dunn, Shabazz Muhammad, Dante Exum, Michael Carter-Williams ..."

Ignoring guys like Kidd, Ball, Rondo (not a lottery pick, but so what), PG's who couldn't shoot but make an impact with Defense, vision, effort.  Hell, Hall of Fame Pony Tarker couldn't shoot when he started.

Plus PG's take time to develop, so I wouldn't give up on Mud, Dunn or Exum (or Franc) yet.  Mud, Dunn & Elfrid were starting to come around this year before injuries got to the latter two.

4.  "and wound up as disappointments"  . . . "Not a single All-Star among any of those"
 
Was that the sound of goalposts moving?
So Franc is a disappointment if he doesn't make an all-star team.  Who was expecting to draft an all-star at #10.  Sure it happens, but is not a realistic expectation.

5.  "you better be seriously elite at other things on the offensive end to make up for it -- i.e. John Wall and Russell Westbrook.  There was absolutely no evidence that Ntilikina was ever going to be anything close to that kind of player."

Uh, Wall was an overall #1 pick.  Russ was the 4th pick.
That's blue chip territory.  no one thought Franc was going to be a franchise cornerstone getting a max contract. 
Comparing #10 pick Franc to all-stars is misguided.  Stupid.
If Franc turns into the passer/defender that Rubio is, we'd be satisfied.

6."There is no question the Knicks would change this pick if they could, even with the understanding that Ntilikina won't turn 21 years old until next summer and still has plenty of time to improve."

For Mitchell, sure.  Otherwise Collins, Adebayo even Kennard look like nice rotation players.  But Franc is still a solid pick with potential.
If he can get more consistent with his 3's, stop making next-station Euro-passes, be a little more aggressive and creative in scoring and passing, he'll be fine.  Or maybe he's Darrell Walker ...

To have drafting Franc as one of the Top 10 NBA mistakes of the past couple years is silly.  Just for the Knix, how about the Noah signing?  He's a $6M tax hit for the next few years while playing for MEMf.  Couldn't handle NYC, gave us nothing over 2 years and we're still paying him.  Give me a gerry mulligan on that . . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 01, 2019, 01:23:40 AM
Quote from: Kam on December 31, 2018, 06:07:59 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 31, 2018, 04:46:04 PM
Enes needs to look at Greg Monroe to understand the future path of his career.

Yes!

You get stupider by the minute. Greg Monroe is contributing nicely on the second best team in the NBA. They play to win every night. Anyway, Enes is a different player.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 01, 2019, 03:45:18 AM
Enes is a better scorer and rebounder and a worse passer and defender, though not by much. Both are 20 minute guys on a bad team, 10 minute guys on a good one. With those minute parameters, big stats won’t come. Setting good screens, getting hands up to contest, and other details are a better focus than getting post ups, not that they are mutually exclusive. He’s got to realize that with the holes in his game no serious team can accommodate him and hope to win despite the assets he has made his bread and butter. if he can’t adjust he won’t ever find a Monroe role down the line. 
Title: Re: Pay no attention
Post by: chipstern on January 01, 2019, 08:30:24 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 31, 2018, 09:07:43 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 31, 2018, 04:25:39 PM
Quote from: Nagel on December 31, 2018, 04:22:01 PM
KP can get out of here soon.

no reason to stay.  NONE.

Actually I was going to make that same suggestion about you, ClipperJane.

Hey Nagel, pay no attention to your friend Chip. I want you here!

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HAPPY NEW YEAR Y'ALL

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Happy New Year

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Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on January 01, 2019, 01:52:54 PM
Yeah I disagree on the Frank article as well.  Doesn't profile as elite defender - just has long arms.

A tall point guard who can't do PG things or an average size sg who can't score at a high level.

A bench guy, regardless.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on January 01, 2019, 04:17:17 PM
Haqppy New Years guys

all the best for 2019
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on January 01, 2019, 05:59:18 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 31, 2018, 04:25:39 PM
Quote from: Nagel on December 31, 2018, 04:22:01 PM
KP can get out of here soon.

no reason to stay.  NONE.

Actually I was going to make that same suggestion about you, ClipperJane.


sounds good.  sorry carlos.  you can carry the rest of the year and I'll take the rest of this miserable year off.  arguing with the taxi man is juvenile and not worth the time.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on January 01, 2019, 08:08:44 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 29, 2018, 10:24:17 AM
KT could mentor Vonleh.
Another option: LJ.

Both would have a lot to impart.

Sadly, all probably too old for this role.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on January 01, 2019, 08:15:59 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 30, 2018, 05:19:07 AM
Ok, Kam you have complained about Kanter's no-showing against stronger C's/teams.  But the one-game I Told You So, rubbed me the wrong way.  But I just don't get the Kant animus. He's almost certainly a placeholder this year keeping down the C position as best he can.  And less than halfway through the year, Fizz is already experimenting with General Tsao as our stretch 5.  And Mitch will be back soonish (I'd imagine). 

Does anyone have Kant as our longterm C?
KZ, Mitch and Kornet are our yute brigade at the 5.  But for now:
KZ still rehabbing.  Mitch is raw (and out with an ankle).  And Kornet a sharpshooting pup who can be banged around.

So Kant serves a useful purpose.  Absorbing minutes (and should be protecting Egg Foo Too Yung from Gobert).  Some games Kant totally beasts fools under the rim.  Great hands, good work ethic, physical, fearless, and dexterous on putbacks.  He's been fun to watch, easy to root for and a bright spot for much of this season.  Unfortunately his defense is poor and he is no rim deterrent.  And he clogs the paint on O.  David Lee's bigger Turkish cousin.

And the NBA has changed.  So Kant is most likely either a good-numbers-bad-team player, or a tough cover on a 2nd unit.  If Knix extend him, I assume the latter would be his role.  Which means he wouldn't get paid more than the mid-level (ie under $8.5M) and would be a bench/role player.  I expect Kant will want and look for a bigger payday and role than that.  I'd welcome him back at say $6M if he was willing to take on that role (I again, I doubt he wants that).

6m seems WAY too much, Bo.

Bropez is getting almost half of that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on January 01, 2019, 08:17:35 PM
P.S. Kanter HAS to be renounced before the Knicks can sign him due to his cap hold.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on January 01, 2019, 08:35:14 PM
 Brook Lopez averaged FOUR rebounds per game before getting his current sub 4 mil deal.

He shot .465 after .475 the year before.

PER had fallen to 16.4

Lopez was also 4 years older
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on January 01, 2019, 09:32:27 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on January 01, 2019, 08:35:14 PM
Brook Lopez averaged FOUR rebounds per game before getting his current sub 4 mil deal.

He shot .465 after .475 the year before.

PER had fallen to 16.4

Lopez was also 4 years older

Okay, but that's never been his game to me. And we're talking since he was drafted. He got better, sure.

Trust me I've never been a huge fan of Lopez either for that reason, yet who's the better rim protector, shooter and doesn't get his shot constantly blocked by more athletic players?

Kanter is going to face a harsh reality in free agency, I suspect, but maybe someone desperate will splurge with so many having cap space - on say a 1 or 2 year deal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on January 01, 2019, 09:33:35 PM
Knox at least...excites
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on January 01, 2019, 09:44:59 PM
Frank able to perform thus far well. Good for him.

Hope he shuts my azz up.  :)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on January 01, 2019, 09:48:18 PM
Kanter has 9 and 5 in 8 minutes

Take him out!!!
Title: Re: Viva la Franc
Post by: Kam on January 01, 2019, 10:40:45 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 01, 2019, 12:02:26 AM
Why demote Franc to greenlight him?


Re: Westchester.  You make it like Westchester Knix never have a road trip or that the Knix and Suburb NY Knix always play at Home at the same time.  You can probably find overlapping homestands here and there, but travel is the nature of things.  Anyway, my point was that I'd rather have hands-on and work with a player directly then leave it to others. I don't think AAA ball would be useful for Franc's confidence or development. 

Just start him again and give him extended minutes.
Free Franc . . .



Didn't Burke and Kornet do the daily double a few times? There are enough overlapping homestands to make it work.
 
And didn't it serve Tim Hardaway well to be demoted to AAA

You shouldn't be looking at it as a demotion but an opportunity.

There were days we would practice but Fiz wouldn't play Frank.

Those nights he could've gone to Westchester.

There's really no reason to have a G league affiliate if you're going to say no rookie  or 2nd year guy should go there.
Title: Chip v. Carlos
Post by: carlos123 on January 01, 2019, 10:41:36 PM
Quote from: Nagel on January 01, 2019, 05:59:18 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 31, 2018, 04:25:39 PM
Quote from: Nagel on December 31, 2018, 04:22:01 PM
KP can get out of here soon.

no reason to stay.  NONE.

Actually I was going to make that same suggestion about you, ClipperJane.


sounds good.  sorry carlos.  you can carry the rest of the year and I'll take the rest of this miserable year off.  arguing with the taxi man is juvenile and not worth the time.

I was hoping Chip wouldn't prevail.

That's too bad.

(https://media.tenor.com/images/0fc7dfd2b5c5d2db1083a422d4ad68f6/tenor.gif)
That's Chipstern Jane eating his cell phone JUST BEFORE apologizing to Nagel.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 01, 2019, 10:45:26 PM
Franks issues stems from ... he's always thinking too hard to make the right play... too willing to defer.  Sharing is good.  Frank does it to a fault.

The G Leauge .... one would hope ... Frank would see... there's nobody to defer to.  And it may help his development.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 01, 2019, 10:52:31 PM
Plumlee just used a pick and roll to dunk the ball on Kanter.


DON"T effin tell me that  he woulda done squat vs Gobert.
Title: Re: Viva la Franc
Post by: bodiddley on January 01, 2019, 11:08:12 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 01, 2019, 10:40:45 PM
There's really no reason to have a G league affiliate if you're going to say no rookie  or 2nd year guy should go there.

Positions don't have to be absolutes.
I don't think it would be good for Franc.
He was a pro back in France.  He seems sensitive.
His confidence seems to ebb and flow in games.
I could see the G-League sapping not strengthening him.
Also his game -- not a big scorer, I think you'd have to leave him in Westchester for a month or more to really get results.

Also, the purpose of West-Knix is to evaluate some marginal talent, monitor some potential guys and spread the Knick brand.  I don't think anyone had a problem with Kornet in W-Knickland.  Hardaway needed a fire lit under his posterior an to take his ego down a peg -- and still it was a risk. 

As for Bropez, he was coming off a poor year in LA.  And lots of guys took one year deals as the market was tight, hoping to cash in this Summer when more teams had more money.  I don't think you'll see Kant or too many guys taking one year deals this Summer.  unless that becomes the new normal, or at the end of FA after the money has dried up.  But I think the rash of 1 year deals was mostly a one-time thing.  A 3/$18M for a backup C of Kant's level seems like a bargain to me.  Hell, that's what we'll be paying Noah the next two years.  But  think Kant will get a closer to $10M deal from someone else.  There is a C glut leaguewide and a number of teams have bad C deals on their books and might be shy.  We'll see.  Don't forget the MLE is now $8.5M (or so)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 01, 2019, 11:19:08 PM
Hardaway Jr was out of bounds when Jokic saved the ball.  So Jokic threw the ball back and hit a guy who was out of bounds.  That should be Knick ball, no?
Title: Re: Viva la Franc
Post by: Kam on January 01, 2019, 11:20:57 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 01, 2019, 11:08:12 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 01, 2019, 10:40:45 PM
There's really no reason to have a G league affiliate if you're going to say no rookie  or 2nd year guy should go there.
As for Bropez, he was coming off a poor year in LA.  And lots of guys took one year deals as the market was tight, hoping to cash in this Summer when more teams had more money.  I don't think you'll see Kant or too many guys taking one year deals this Summer.  unless that becomes the new normal, or at the end of FA after the money has dried up.  But I think the rash of 1 year deals was mostly a one-time thing.  A 3/$18M for a backup C of Kant's level seems like a bargain to me.  Hell, that's what we'll be paying Noah the next two years.  But  think Kant will get a closer to $10M deal from someone else.  There is a C glut leaguewide and a number of teams have bad C deals on their books and might be shy.  We'll see.  Don't forget the MLE is now $8.5M (or so)

From a basketball standpoint... what in the hell do you see in Kanter?  His skills are not worth what you posit.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 01, 2019, 11:23:45 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 01, 2019, 11:19:08 PM
Hardaway Jr was out of bounds when Jokic saved the ball.  So Jokic threw the ball back and hit a guy who was out of bounds.  That should be Knick ball, no?

No.
That means Tim touched it while out of bounds.
Title: Re: Viva la Franc
Post by: Kam on January 01, 2019, 11:24:12 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 01, 2019, 11:08:12 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 01, 2019, 10:40:45 PM
There's really no reason to have a G league affiliate if you're going to say no rookie  or 2nd year guy should go there.

I don't think it would be good for Franc.
He was a pro back in France.  He seems sensitive.
His confidence seems to ebb and flow in games.of Kant's level seems like a bargain to me.  Hell, that's what we'll be paying Noah the next two years.  But  think

The G League is also made of pros.  You see it as some type of stigma and that's a defeatist perspective.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 01, 2019, 11:26:51 PM
Courtney Lee volunteered to play a game in the G League to knock off some rust and develop a second wind.

Was he made fun of?  No longer a pro?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 01, 2019, 11:32:10 PM
Frank doesn't need a single G league minute.
Title: Re: Viva la Franc
Post by: bodiddley on January 01, 2019, 11:54:38 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 01, 2019, 11:20:57 PM
From a basketball standpoint... what in the hell do you see in Kanter?  His skills are not worth what you posit.

Kant has great hands, rebounds well, can score around the rim, can beast smaller less active fools.  Also plays chumpy D, doesn't pass.
$6M would be a bargain.  He could beats 2nd units.
Title: Re: Viva la Franc
Post by: Kam on January 02, 2019, 01:03:19 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 01, 2019, 11:54:38 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 01, 2019, 11:20:57 PM
From a basketball standpoint... what in the hell do you see in Kanter?  His skills are not worth what you posit.

Kant has great hands, rebounds well, can score around the rim, can beast smaller less active fools.  Also plays chumpy D, doesn't pass.
$6M would be a bargain.  He could beats 2nd units.

OK but he's not the only NBA player who can do those things.  Why are we so in love with "rebounds well can score at the rim" the game isn't about the rim anymore unless you can defend the rim ....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 02, 2019, 01:05:00 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on January 01, 2019, 11:32:10 PM
Frank doesn't need a single G league minute.

DNP-coaches decisions are better.
Title: Kanter comparison
Post by: Kam on January 02, 2019, 01:07:34 AM
The Detroit Pistons had the luxury of Corliss Williamson on their 2nd unit and he did indeed beast fools.

But the Pistons were a championship team.

We have needs, can't afford to carry a guy on the bench for one specific archaic skill.

Also i don't think is makes sense... if your plan is to be a running and 3pt shooting team... to have your second unit play a totally different halfcourt style.

We don't feature Kanter as a post up guy as much as last season.  Plays aren't run for him to be the scorer. So his scoring around the rim is limited to putbacks.

Maybe you can make the counter that we are mis-using him.  And should run more plays for him.  But as long a Fiz is here.... aint gonna work.

And oh yeah... Kanter has expressed severe displeasure at being a 2nd unit man.  Sowing the seeds of discord.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 02, 2019, 04:19:23 AM
O-boards are valuable, rebounds are good, scoring at a 55% clip is good.  Kant could post up more especially v. 2nd unit C's. 

It's simple: Kant fills a void this year.  This Summer we are unlikely to bring him back unless it's at a reduced rate and he's willing to accept a reduced role.

So we, and more to the point he, will wait to see what the market is for his services.  It's all not an issue right now.  Kant is basically our default starting C.  Unless you think Kornet is going to start the rest of the year.   Maybe carve out a genuine 2nd unit with a strong Kanter role so he can see how he'd be used next year.  Craw cried about a bench role as a Knick and it went on to define his career.

Yeah, it'd be better if Kant sucked it up and didn't complain.  Especially since almost every Knick but Tim has been in and out of the starting lineup, and most get a 2nd chance and have made the best of it.  Which is why I very much expect Framc to get another starting run, expecially after KZ is back.  This is a development/evaluation year.

Kant is a rather odd minor element to fixate on ....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 02, 2019, 04:25:07 AM
When I was watching the 2nd half in blur-o-vision, I saw Mud miss 2 out of 3 layups.  The only one he made was when he head-faked 3 defenders into thinking he was pulling the ball back out and then cleverly drive to the rim uncontested.  Missed a layup at 2:20 and again around 0:30.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 02, 2019, 04:34:45 AM
Malik Beasley looked good.  Has been on a nice run lately.
last time I saw DEN, Monte Morris looked terrific.
His shooting has cooled but he's averaging almost 5 assist lately.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 02, 2019, 01:28:50 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 02, 2019, 04:25:07 AM
When I was watching the 2nd half in blur-o-vision, I saw Mud miss 2 out of 3 layups.  The only one he made was when he head-faked 3 defenders into thinking he was pulling the ball back out and then cleverly drive to the rim uncontested.  Missed a layup at 2:20 and again around 0:30.

His forays to the rim are still pretty bad. Gets blocked. Turns it over. Misses. Falls down.
The other stuff — well, D excepted — generally significantly better.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on January 02, 2019, 02:03:26 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on January 02, 2019, 01:28:50 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 02, 2019, 04:25:07 AM
When I was watching the 2nd half in blur-o-vision, I saw Mud miss 2 out of 3 layups.  The only one he made was when he head-faked 3 defenders into thinking he was pulling the ball back out and then cleverly drive to the rim uncontested.  Missed a layup at 2:20 and again around 0:30.

His forays to the rim are still pretty bad. Gets blocked. Turns it over. Misses. Falls down.


Kicks to a 3 pt shooter, who misses....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 02, 2019, 02:33:58 PM
Yes, he's doing more of that, and a bit less getting stuffed, but there is still a ways to go...


*** The offensive side of the ball not so much my concern; a Hardaway-Mudiay backcourt puts a sieve in front of Kanter, Kornet, Robinson or anyone else, regardless of those centers much discussed defensive merits or demerits — completely implausible as starting two on a future +.500 team, so really, what's the plan and the point? Just asking.

**** Fiz actually had Mud & Frank together for a few minutes last night (not nearly enough for Frank, he was easily our best guard on the court against Denver) would like to see more of that
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 02, 2019, 03:31:41 PM
Saw DET for a 2nd time in a week.
There's something just wrong there.
Blake works his ass off for diminishing returns late.
RegJax might or might not be on the court at any given time.  It's hard to tell.  He had 3 assist and 3 turnovers and I don't remember any except one oop to Drummond.  Nobody passes to Drummond.    Well Blake tried to get it to Drummond a few times, but only once effectively.  So every time Bulldog Drummond gets a rebound he's putting it back up.  Triple teamed?  No problem.  He misses with a lot of junk flips, but makes his dunks.

DE^ staye din the game early with Blake and Bullock 3's.  But they're not a good 3-pt shooting team, and that wasn't going to last.  In contrast, Bropez went 7-12 on 3's for MIL!  MIL shot 60%FG for the game and basically scored inside, got open 3, and open midrange J's all they wanted.   StanJohnson didn't play and DET could have used his defensive hustle.

On offense, DET needs more ballhandlers.  Guys who can drive.  And they are a slow team.  Drummond, Blake, Kennard, Jose, Bullock, Leuer.  Mostly plodders.  They put up a stat that DET is first in distance covered on offense and I think 3rd in number of passes.  Yet all that results in 25th in assists and some other negative stat.
They ran a fair amount of weave and dribble hand-offs, but it was so predictable a few times Bledsoe knew what was up and got over the pick almost before his man, blowing it up, so the handoff couldn't occur.

Seems that the system is either flawed or simply doesn't fit the personnel.  Drummond is underutilized.  He had 5 FT's and zero the two games before that, including the IND game I saw.  RegJax has no presence on either end.  They are an erratic 3-ball team.
They need more penetration.
DET is in trouble.  The pieces don't fit.

Just checked and Pistons give up the 4th fewest 3-pointers and hold teams to the worst 3-pt%.  So I guess that's a point of emphasis for them.  Sure didn't bother Lopez, but the rest of the Bucks went 3-15 on 3's.  Bucks got layups, dunks and wide open midrange J's all game.  They shot 71% FG on 2 point shots! 
Despite giving up just 31% on 3's, DEt allows 47% overall FG, bad for 22nd in the League.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on January 02, 2019, 03:56:31 PM
Best 100-1 bet to win it all

Portland
Memphis
Indiana
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on January 02, 2019, 04:17:38 PM
Drummond is a shot blocking Kanter
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on January 02, 2019, 04:27:55 PM
Thinking the odds I gave may have been from start of season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 02, 2019, 10:41:33 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on January 02, 2019, 02:33:58 PM
a Hardaway-Mudiay backcourt puts a sieve in front of Kanter, Kornet, Robinson or anyone else, regardless of those centers much discussed defensive merits or demerits — completely implausible as starting two on a future +.500 team, so really, what's the plan and the point? Just asking.

Knicks Film School:

Two starting lineups, two different results in terms of net rating:

Kanter + Vonleh/Knox/THJ/Mudiay
▪️ORtg: 100.2
▪️DRtg: 118.4
▪️Net: -18.2

Kornet + Vonleh/Knox/THJ/Mudiay
▪️ORtg: 125.7
▪️DRtg: 102.8
▪️Net: +22.9
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 03, 2019, 01:06:54 AM
Do you actually watch basketball?

Did you watch the Utah game?

Or do just sit around cherry-picking little stat portraits and cursing the day that the Turks raped your grandmother and burned down your uncle's house.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 03, 2019, 03:03:09 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on January 03, 2019, 01:06:54 AM
Do you actually watch basketball?

Did you watch the Utah game?

Or do just sit around cherry-picking little stat portraits and cursing the day that the Turks raped your grandmother and burned down your uncle's house.

If you ONLY watch the offensive side of the game you can talk yourself into idealizing him as this awesome force.  Every fifth game or so that is.
Title: Do YOU watch the games
Post by: Kam on January 03, 2019, 03:09:58 AM
Opening sequence of a game not too long ago....

Knick player in the corner (maybe Hardaway?  maybe some other guy) shoots the three.  Misses.

Offensive Rebound.. Enes Kanter (YAY!!)

Enes goes back up with it withh two defeners all over him.. misses

BUT he gets ANOTHER offensive rebound (Yay!)  .. misses again

BUT he gets ANOTHER offensive rebound (yay) .. makes 2 pt basket.


So that is three offensive rebounds... but you can't score three times in a possession.  2pts.  3rebs. 


NET Effective Off Rebound was +1   ... the other two were essentially meaningless when it comes to contributing to the score.

Please watch the games and pay attention to how many offensive rebounds he gets vs how many points come from them.

I do it all the time because i'm amazed at his ability to pad his one good skill.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 03, 2019, 03:42:35 AM
If you discount those 2 o-boards, then you should also offset his FG%.  Bump his 55% FG up to say 62%.

Rebounding your own miss is still valuable.  You want possessions to end in points.  Young Melo was quite good at that when he'd force contact on a drive.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on January 03, 2019, 07:08:40 AM
Quote from: Kam on January 03, 2019, 03:03:09 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on January 03, 2019, 01:06:54 AM
Do you actually watch basketball?

Did you watch the Utah game?

Or do just sit around cherry-picking little stat portraits and cursing the day that the Turks raped your grandmother and burned down your uncle's house.

If you ONLY watch the offensive side of the game you can talk yourself into idealizing him as this awesome force.  Every fifth game or so that is.

I'd argue, as do those numbers and other observers, that Kanter's presence also stifles the offensive flow as we are not running an offense, nor do most NBA teams, that suits his 90's-esque style of play.

Also, against more athletic bigs, he can struggle offensively because he lacks hops. He can use his tremendous strength and savvy around the rim, but it can fail him more times than it should.

He is a square peg that will be gone after this season I think no matter what some of our fans who have this strange love affair with him because he talks a good game about being a Knick, fronts like a tough guy, and has an old school game some fans seem to love, I think, fortunately.

Also, his defense is so glaringly bad I'm surprised all of the old school heads on here don't notice it. For his position it's pretty awful and this isn't just a hater thing:

http://www.espn.com/videohub/video/clip/_/id/25669949/categoryid/2378529
Title: Oop Dunk Shot
Post by: lesterluv on January 03, 2019, 08:56:45 AM
I don't see anybody here idealizing Kanter as this awesome force.

I only see somebody here obsessing over Kanter's defensive deficiencies as if he were the root cause of why we are the 3rd worst team in the league.

Like any other player, it's how you use him. When. With whom. There's a fair amount there to use.

What makes the obsession really odd is that at least 3 of our starters have equal defensive deficiencies, I would argue 4.

As for the opening sequence of the game you remember...here are the opening sequences of the game I remember, much more recent, two games ago to be exact, and public enemy #1 wasn't on court for any of this:

UTA - Gobert Alley Oop Dunk Shot: Made (2 PTS)
UTA - Gobert Dunk Shot: Made (4 PTS)
UTA - Favors Alley Oop Layup shot: Made (2 PTS)
UTA - Exum Driving Layup Shot: Made (2 PTS)
UTA - Gobert Dunk Shot: Made (6 PTS)
UTA - Favors Alley Oop Dunk Shot: Made (4 PTS)
UTA - Gobert Alley Oop Dunk Shot: Made (9 PTS)
UTA - Gobert Putback Layup Shot: Made (11 PTS)
UTA - Gobert Alley Oop Layup shot: Made (13 PTS)
NYK - Kornet Substitution replaced by Kanter

I'm sure Enes' presence in the arena made that happen.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 03, 2019, 11:25:55 AM
I was a big Kanter critic before he got to NYC.  Because of his terrible defense.  Though watching carefully in his late OKC period, I noticed that he did actually try on D, just wasn't good at it -- not mobile enough, poor instincts, limited hops.  His boarding and paint offense has improved in NY.  He's turned out to be a fun guy, stood up to Erdogan and has a burgeoning tough guy routine.  He's useful this season while Mitch & Kornet apprentice.  Not likely back next year.  KZ, Mitch, Kornet likely our C's going forward.

Some appreciate his grunt work on O, some don't.  Kant can suck up some minutes as needed and contribute to losing.  When Mitch returns, Kant's minutes might get further squeezed.  He might become the Trey Burke of our C platoon. 

I don't really see what the issue is. 
I've liked the way that Fizz has doled out minutes, mixed-and-matched personnel.  Including the recent featuring of Kornet.  I assume the goal going forward is to get Kornet & Mitch as much court time as they can handle.  Guys like Kant, Lance, Courtly are not the future.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 03, 2019, 11:46:16 AM
I think you nailed it, Bo.

I liked the plays he had at the wide elbow against Denver. It led to some short Js, which he canned, and some curl feeds to shooters. It kept the offense more fluid than it usually is when he’s in. If that stays in the game plan, he can be a decent backup C for us for the duration of this season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on January 03, 2019, 02:05:06 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 02, 2019, 10:41:33 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on January 02, 2019, 02:33:58 PM
a Hardaway-Mudiay backcourt puts a sieve in front of Kanter, Kornet, Robinson or anyone else, regardless of those centers much discussed defensive merits or demerits — completely implausible as starting two on a future +.500 team, so really, what's the plan and the point? Just asking.

Knicks Film School:

Two starting lineups, two different results in terms of net rating:

Kanter + Vonleh/Knox/THJ/Mudiay
▪️ORtg: 100.2
▪️DRtg: 118.4
▪️Net: -18.2

Kornet + Vonleh/Knox/THJ/Mudiay
▪️ORtg: 125.7
▪️DRtg: 102.8
▪️Net: +22.9

Interesting.

Is this for the season?  How many minutes each?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 03, 2019, 05:56:20 PM
Well, it involves Knox, so it's this season.
82games.com used to be really good for the lineup stats, but last I checked they didn't have anything up for this season.  Not sure if they've ceased to operate or what's happened to that site.

I thought the most interesting lineup NYK has featured was Tim surrounded by defenders.
Franc - Tim - Vonleh - Mitch
(and was it Mario at SF?  or Knox/Lance).
Had Tim doing more playmaking.  Though I think that was when Von Leh was nailing 3's at a high rate.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 03, 2019, 06:26:15 PM
Knicks forward Kevin Knox has been named Eastern Conference Rookie of the Month for December.

Ian Begley believes KZ will be shut down for the whole year.
(I still think he'll play 12-20 games, limited minutes at first, to get rust off, confidence back, see who plays well with KZ, and to help attract FA's.  Don't Knix want to get a sense of KZ and Mitch together?  KZ and Knox?  KZ & von Leh?  See how this version of MUd & Franc play with KZ, etc)

Kant is 60th of 61 C's in defensive +/-

Knix with just 9 W's at nearly the halfway point, with a brutal next 8 games. 
Title: Re: Oop Dunk Shot
Post by: Kam on January 03, 2019, 06:51:00 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on January 03, 2019, 08:56:45 AM
I don't see anybody here idealizing Kanter as this awesome force.

I only see somebody here obsessing over Kanter's defensive deficiencies as if he were the root cause of why we are the 3rd worst team in the league.


Well... isn't he?

Kanter + Hardaway is a recipe for our record.
Title: Re: Oop Dunk Shot
Post by: Kam on January 03, 2019, 06:52:58 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on January 03, 2019, 08:56:45 AM


UTA - Gobert Alley Oop Dunk Shot: Made (2 PTS)
UTA - Gobert Dunk Shot: Made (4 PTS)
UTA - Favors Alley Oop Layup shot: Made (2 PTS)
UTA - Exum Driving Layup Shot: Made (2 PTS)
UTA - Gobert Dunk Shot: Made (6 PTS)
UTA - Favors Alley Oop Dunk Shot: Made (4 PTS)
UTA - Gobert Alley Oop Dunk Shot: Made (9 PTS)
UTA - Gobert Putback Layup Shot: Made (11 PTS)
UTA - Gobert Alley Oop Layup shot: Made (13 PTS)
NYK - Kornet Substitution replaced by Kanter

I'm sure Enes' presence in the arena made that happen.

Enes wouldn't have provided any resistance against the high flying Gobert.  None. 
Title: Who would you rather have this year
Post by: Kam on January 03, 2019, 07:00:12 PM
Enes or Tyson Chandler?

Enes or Splash Mountain*?

Enes or Kyle O'Quinn?

I could go on.  But why bother. Bo already told you Enes is 60th out of 61 centers.

* (Brook Lopez)


When he is gone we won't miss the guy. 
Sensitive tough anti-edrogan enforcer that he is (none of which has squat to do with basketball)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 03, 2019, 07:12:00 PM
The only reason i post about Kanter is there are some here who actually want him back next year.  Or can't even entertain the idea of trading his contract.
Title: Kanter Cited As Source of Ebola Outbreak in D.R. Congo
Post by: lesterluv on January 03, 2019, 07:26:43 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 03, 2019, 06:52:58 PM

Enes wouldn't have provided any resistance against the high flying Gobert.  None.

Kanter started the last time we played Utah.
We beat them.
Kanter had the game high +/- at +19.

He also started the previous game against Utah.
And we beat them as well.

I have never in my entire Knick fandom seen the lane as undefended as it was at the beginning of the last Utah game. Never.

Honestly, you are so stupid you make my brain hurt. But I'm done. Press on. Post 1000 more times about how bad he is, lol.

If you're right, and he personally delivers us Zion, well, god bless.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on January 03, 2019, 08:19:12 PM
No such stat as defensive +/-
Title: Kam(s)ter Film School
Post by: carlos123 on January 03, 2019, 08:22:55 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 02, 2019, 10:41:33 PM

Knicks Film School:

Two starting lineups, two different results in terms of net rating:

Kanter + Vonleh/Knox/THJ/Mudiay
▪️ORtg: 100.2
▪️DRtg: 118.4
▪️Net: -18.2

Kornet + Vonleh/Knox/THJ/Mudiay
▪️ORtg: 125.7
▪️DRtg: 102.8
▪️Net: +22.9

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/6f36867c9148da99628b62284ae0c0bc/tenor.gif?itemid=8991438)

(https://media.giphy.com/media/Whf1emCaIoTIY/giphy.gif)
                                          YOU KAM'T

     (http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/d-wade-bosh-gif.gif)

                 (http://wanna-joke.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/funny-gif-jump-wall.gif)

Quote
Sensitive tough anti-edrogan enforcer

Now, Kam, What the hell is an anti-erdogan ENFORCER?

Are you an Erdogan fan? Is that why you dislike Enes so much?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on January 03, 2019, 08:24:38 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 03, 2019, 07:12:00 PM
The only reason i post about Kanter is there are some here who actually want him back next year.  Or can't even entertain the idea of trading his contract.

Even if it brings back Bradley Beal, apparently.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on January 03, 2019, 08:35:52 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 02, 2019, 04:19:23 AM
O-boards are valuable, rebounds are good, scoring at a 55% clip is good.  Kant could post up more especially v. 2nd unit C's. 

It's simple: Kant fills a void this year.  This Summer we are unlikely to bring him back unless it's at a reduced rate and he's willing to accept a reduced role.

So we, and more to the point he, will wait to see what the market is for his services.  It's all not an issue right now.  Kant is basically our default starting C.  Unless you think Kornet is going to start the rest of the year.   Maybe carve out a genuine 2nd unit with a strong Kanter role so he can see how he'd be used next year.  Craw cried about a bench role as a Knick and it went on to define his career.

Yeah, it'd be better if Kant sucked it up and didn't complain.  Especially since almost every Knick but Tim has been in and out of the starting lineup, and most get a 2nd chance and have made the best of it.  Which is why I very much expect Framc to get another starting run, expecially after KZ is back.  This is a development/evaluation year.

Kant is a rather odd minor element to fixate on ....

I don't think anyone is giving Kanter more than the MLE. The catch is: He can a top-3 back-up pivot during the season (Valunciunas being the best) but he absolutely cannot be relied upon during the playoffs because opponents will PNR him to death. "Can't Play Kanter". If Valunciunas can't be played against some teams, as Toronto knows all too well, Kanter won't have better luck.

How much do you pay a guy who can help you win regular season games by destroying second units and providing spot starts but not be of much help in playoff games? If you're lottery-bound, the MLE makes sense - he's a walking double double, he'll go for 20 once or twice a week if given regularly 25mpg. If you have designs of making noise in the playoffs, then it depends if you have three other reliable bigs. If so, then the $6m Bo says is sensible. It might be less.

For the Knicks, it's a pretty simple decision. KP and Mitch should take all 48 minutes at the 5 spot in competitive games. Maybe there's five minutes at most left over some games for when the Knicks go with a twin towers lineup (which is what KP at the 4 represents in today's NBA - a gimmick, to be used infrequently). And if the Knicks keep Vonleh - which I hope they do - then there really isn't a single minute left for Kanter barring injury. And if the Knicks draft Zion...well, you get the picture.

So he's gone this summer. You can book it. I, for one, am going to enjoy watching his great hands and footwork and nose for the ball when he's on the court for the rest of the season, cringing along with the rest of you when he sets those soft picks which he bails on before contact is made (because he wants to roll to the basket), or when he doubles prematurely and then looks lost trying to find his man when he abandons the double, or when he shows up a second too late and with his hands by his side when a guard drives to the basket. Mostly I wish him well and I'll cheer on any enemy of Erdogan.

(ps If the Knicks trade Mitch as part of an unlikely deal for a superstar, then maybe Kanter comes back as the back-up 5. But only if Mitch is gone, because the team needs to built around KP)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on January 03, 2019, 08:58:17 PM
The kind of player we often miss on when picking so high:

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/shamorie-ponds-1.html (https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/shamorie-ponds-1.html)
Title: KP
Post by: carlos123 on January 03, 2019, 09:01:03 PM
You’re all assuming KP is going to return the same player he was.

I hope you’re right, I mean, his injury was pretty serious.
Title: Re: Kam(s)ter Film School
Post by: Kam on January 03, 2019, 09:54:20 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 03, 2019, 08:22:55 PM


Are you an Erdogan fan? Is that why you dislike Enes so much?

No.  I saw a poster on a telephone pole saying i could make as much as $1000 a week from my own home.

Part of the gig is bashing Enes. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on January 03, 2019, 09:55:17 PM
"KP and Mitch take all the minutes at the 5"

I still like Porzingis as a 4.

Will be interesting to see what Fiz thinks.

Theoretically....if we get a real strong point, THJ could be out of the picture (lunch pail 5 and Knox at the 3)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 03, 2019, 10:00:14 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on January 03, 2019, 08:35:52 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 02, 2019, 04:19:23 AM
O-boards are valuable, rebounds are good, scoring at a 55% clip is good.  Kant could post up more especially v. 2nd unit C's. 

Yeah, it'd be better if Kant sucked it up and didn't complain.  Especially since almost every Knick but Tim has been in and out of the starting lineup, and most get a 2nd chance and have made the best of it. 

Kant is a rather odd minor element to fixate on ....

I don't think anyone is giving Kanter more than the MLE. The catch is he absolutely cannot be relied upon during the playoffs because opponents will PNR him to death. "Can't Play Kanter".  If so, then the $6m Bo says is sensible. It might be less.

For the Knicks, it's a pretty simple decision. KP and Mitch should take all 48 minutes at the 5 spot in competitive games. Maybe there's five minutes at most left over some games for when the Knicks go with a twin towers lineup (which is what KP at the 4 represents in today's NBA - a gimmick, to be used infrequently). And if the Knicks keep Vonleh - which I hope they do - then there really isn't a single minute left for Kanter barring injury. And if the Knicks draft Zion...well, you get the picture.



You left out Luke "Corner 3" Kornet

He changes our offense completely.  You don't miss Kanter's yeomen gruntwork when Kornet is raining them in from distance.

Even when he isn't shooting he stretches the floor and opens the lane.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 03, 2019, 10:03:03 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on January 03, 2019, 09:55:17 PM
THJ could be out of the picture (lunch pail 5 and Knox at the 3)

THJ's slump has coincided with KK's emergence.

Apropos of nothing.   Just interesting.

Agree with BO that Knicks front office should WANT KP to play.

KP may have other ideas.

If he doesn't come back i would be of a mind that he is out the door as soon as he can leave.
Title: Re: Kam(s)ter Film School
Post by: carlos123 on January 04, 2019, 12:33:05 AM
Quote from: Kam on January 03, 2019, 09:54:20 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 03, 2019, 08:22:55 PM

Are you an Erdogan fan? Is that why you dislike Enes so much?

No.  I saw a poster on a telephone pole saying i could make as much as $1000 a week from my own home.

Part of the gig is bashing Enes.

Recep must be disappointed in the job you’re doing, poor baby.
Title: James Harden
Post by: Kam on January 04, 2019, 01:16:46 AM

DAAAAAAAAMN...   HE'S A BAD MAN

OKC really kept the worst guy... Harden KD and Russ would have prevented the DUB Dynasty
Title: Re: Kam(s)ter Film School
Post by: Kam on January 04, 2019, 01:18:17 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 04, 2019, 12:33:05 AM
Quote from: Kam on January 03, 2019, 09:54:20 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 03, 2019, 08:22:55 PM

Are you an Erdogan fan? Is that why you dislike Enes so much?

No.  I saw a poster on a telephone pole saying i could make as much as $1000 a week from my own home.

Part of the gig is bashing Enes.

Recep must be disappointed in the job you’re doing, poor baby.

He will be somewhere else next year and you'll have no choice but to come to my side.
Especially when he opens his mouth to trash the Knicks.
Title: Re: Kanter Cited As Source of Ebola Outbreak in D.R. Congo
Post by: Kam on January 04, 2019, 01:30:02 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on January 03, 2019, 07:26:43 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 03, 2019, 06:52:58 PM

Enes wouldn't have provided any resistance against the high flying Gobert.  None.

Kanter started the last time we played Utah.
We beat them.
Kanter had the game high +/- at +19.


Dude.... for all your cryin about GObert last game Kanter was a -30 and Kornet was a -3
AND  the game you're saying we won last ... Gobert didn't play.... LMAO

How'm i doing now Carlos.
Title: I aint not as dum as you look
Post by: Kam on January 04, 2019, 01:34:05 AM
http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400974957 (http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400974957)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 04, 2019, 01:36:02 AM
http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400975418 (http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400975418)

Gobert with 23 and 14 on Kanter.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 04, 2019, 01:49:59 AM
Harden with the OT dagger.
Man, KD was a disaster late 4Q.
For some reason, GS went to Durant every time and he was missing form outside, so he started to drive.  Was stripped once, then blocked on a dunk attempt.  Finally with 1:00 they got the ball to Stpeh who missed a straight on 3, maybe because he hadn't touched the ball in the last 3 mins of the KD Show.

Then Durant didn't notice that HOU threw a full court pass to Capela, right past clueless Durant.  To make matters worse, Durant fouled Capela on the layup.  It was a 6 point game right at the 1 min mark.  Allow the layup and it's a 4-point/2 possession game, and GS has the ball.  The dual defensive errors by Durant made it a 3-pt/1 possession affair.

Durant continued spotty play in OT.
Refs weren't much better with Durant taking 3 steps out of bounds and then "saving" a ball rolling off the court.  I mean, he didn't even get near being in the court, tossed the ball to Steph who made a foul line J.  Harden was pretty incredulous that the refs didn't notice that Durant was way off the court.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 04, 2019, 02:06:50 AM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on January 03, 2019, 08:19:12 PM
No such stat as defensive +/-

Really?

Quote
Kanter scored 17 points and grabbed 12 rebounds in just 20 minutes of work Tuesday night. He is averaging 14.4 points and 10.6 rebounds per game, but he ranks 60th in defensive real plus-minus amid the 61 qualified centers.

Yeah, my mistake,
Kanter's 61 out of 61 now.
http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/2/sort/DRPM/position/9
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 04, 2019, 02:43:06 AM
More defensive real plus-minus:

Muddy Mud: -1.34 = 75th of 80 PG's
Trey Burke:  -1.63 = 80 of 80
Franc Ntilikina: -2.26 = 81st

Hardaway Jr: -2.52  = 93 of 100 SG's
Allonzo Trier: -2.78  = 95 of 99

Kevin Knox:   -3.87 = 85 of 85 SF's

Noah Vonleh: +2.33 = 8 of 93 PF's
Luke Kornet:  +0.97 = 36 of 93

Enes Kanter:   -1.80  = 61 of 61 C's
Mitch Robson: +1.18 = 38 of 61

Lance strong & Courtly solid for DRPM, but they've played little.
Mario somehow not too bad.  Dotson poor.

** For some reason, Franc & Tim are missing from the position lists.
I found them on the full list of NBA players.  So I slotted them in where they would fit, but didn't alter the other rankings.
Which is why there are 99 SG's for Trier, but 100 for Tim.
Adding Tim would really bump Trier to 96 of 100, but I just stuck with the available list.

BTW:
T'Angelo Russell: -1.25  72 of 80 PG's
Kemba Walker:    -1.26  73 of 80
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 04, 2019, 02:53:51 AM
This is interesting.
A Center ranking from 2 seasons ago.
Just after the season finished.
Kant on OKC; returning home Dwight on ATL, etc.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2702639-nba-position-power-rankings-end-of-regular-season-edition-centers

They were disappointed with some Capela regression.  Had him 27th. 
He was fairly young at 22 years old.
GS ZaZa was 25th.  Monroe 23.
Kanter was 29th:
Quote
Enes Kanter remains an offensive rebounding demon who displays remarkable touch around the basket, and he's showcased solid chemistry with Russell Westbrook when diving to the hoop. But his limited role should leave him with enough energy to contribute defensively, and he's not. According to ESPN.com's defensive real plus/minus (DRPM), only five centers have fared worse on the less glamorous end. 

Steven Adams 23rd (he was young)
Noel 22nd!
Dwight 11th!
Cousin Boogie 4th

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2702639-nba-position-power-rankings-end-of-regular-season-edition-centers


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on January 04, 2019, 03:50:56 AM
Knicks are tanking by not playing defense? Probably the simplest way to do it. Just coach team D. down. Biggest disappointment is Frank. He was drafted for defense mainly.  Clean up the rough edges next year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on January 04, 2019, 10:05:24 AM
Quote from: Kam on January 03, 2019, 10:03:03 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on January 03, 2019, 09:55:17 PM
THJ could be out of the picture (lunch pail 5 and Knox at the 3)

THJ's slump has coincided with KK's emergence.

Apropos of nothing.   Just interesting.

Agree with BO that Knicks front office should WANT KP to play.

KP may have other ideas.

If he doesn't come back i would be of a mind that he is out the door as soon as he can leave.

Knox has been a volume shooter/scorer.  Not overly efficient.  Hopefully this will come in time.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 04, 2019, 10:06:57 AM
Knix have a lot of subpar defenders.
And few if any 2-way players (Courtly, Vonleh sorta, injured KZ)

The mix-and-match starting units also factors against any kind of cohesive defense.  As does playing lots of rook and yute.
But it all starts with having poor defenders.

As for Franc, I think you can see a good deal of defensive effort, which is a big part of it.  But he fouls too much, and often small unnecessary fouls.  That's my biggest concern, but something that can be corrected with experience.  I think Franc is a solid defender, but his ability on that end has often been exaggerated.  Still long arms and effort and some sense of what to be doing goes a long way.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 04, 2019, 10:08:41 AM
Be interesting to see Knox's scoring and shooting %'s broken down by quarter.  Because he has been a 1Q and 1st half demon.  And often very inefficient in 2nd halves.  Not sure where to unearth such data.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on January 04, 2019, 10:11:29 AM
2 8-17
2 7-15
1 9-20

.500 and above just twice

3-6
3-5
Title: Re: Kam(s)ter Cited As Source of Ebola Outbreak in D.R. Congo
Post by: carlos123 on January 04, 2019, 10:51:16 AM
Quote from: Kam on January 04, 2019, 01:30:02 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on January 03, 2019, 07:26:43 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 03, 2019, 06:52:58 PM

Enes wouldn't have provided any resistance against the high flying Gobert.  None.

Kanter started the last time we played Utah.
We beat them.
Kanter had the game high +/- at +19.


Dude.... for all your cryin about GObert last game Kanter was a -30 and Kornet was a -3
AND  the game you're saying we won last ... Gobert didn't play.... LMAO

How'm i doing now Carlos.

You’re doing very well as the source of Ebola.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on January 04, 2019, 01:10:03 PM
Austin Rivers 5-0 with Rockets, including wins over OKC, Boston and Golden State.

37 minutes per.
40% from deep.
Title: Re: Kam(s)ter Cited As Source of Ebola Outbreak in D.R. Congo
Post by: lesterluv on January 04, 2019, 01:14:17 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 04, 2019, 10:51:16 AM
Quote from: Kam on January 04, 2019, 01:30:02 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on January 03, 2019, 07:26:43 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 03, 2019, 06:52:58 PM

Enes wouldn't have provided any resistance against the high flying Gobert.  None.

Kanter started the last time we played Utah.
We beat them.
Kanter had the game high +/- at +19.


Dude.... for all your cryin about GObert last game Kanter was a -30 and Kornet was a -3
AND  the game you're saying we won last ... Gobert didn't play.... LMAO

How'm i doing now Carlos.

You’re doing very well as the source of Ebola.

Kam is just way too much bong, way too little brain.
And yes, Gobert did play...29 minutes and 46 seconds, here's the box:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201801190UTA.html
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on January 04, 2019, 01:37:19 PM
Knox is 50% from deep in 1st and 3rd (16-32 in each)

23% in 2nd and 4th (6-33 and 11-40)
Title: Re: Kam(s)ter Cited As Source of Ebola Outbreak in D.R. Congo
Post by: Kam on January 04, 2019, 02:02:06 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on January 04, 2019, 01:14:17 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 04, 2019, 10:51:16 AM
Quote from: Kam on January 04, 2019, 01:30:02 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on January 03, 2019, 07:26:43 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 03, 2019, 06:52:58 PM

Enes wouldn't have provided any resistance against the high flying Gobert.  None.

Kanter started the last time we played Utah.
We beat them.
Kanter had the game high +/- at +19.


Dude.... for all your cryin about GObert last game Kanter was a -30 and Kornet was a -3
AND  the game you're saying we won last ... Gobert didn't play.... LMAO

How'm i doing now Carlos.

You’re doing very well as the source of Ebola.

Kam is just way too much bong, way too little brain.
And yes, Gobert did play...29 minutes and 46 seconds, here's the box:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201801190UTA.html

In one of those games AND he kicked ENES butt. 
Title: Re: Kam(s)ter Cited As Source of Ebola Outbreak in D.R. Congo
Post by: Kam on January 04, 2019, 02:04:01 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 04, 2019, 10:51:16 AM
Quote from: Kam on January 04, 2019, 01:30:02 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on January 03, 2019, 07:26:43 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 03, 2019, 06:52:58 PM

Enes wouldn't have provided any resistance against the high flying Gobert.  None.

Kanter started the last time we played Utah.
We beat them.
Kanter had the game high +/- at +19.


Dude.... for all your cryin about GObert last game Kanter was a -30 and Kornet was a -3
AND  the game you're saying we won last ... Gobert didn't play.... LMAO

How'm i doing now Carlos.

You’re doing very well as the source Herald of Ebola Elba .

Correct!
Title: Re: Kam(s)ter Cited As Source of Ebola Outbreak in D.R. Congo
Post by: lesterluv on January 04, 2019, 02:13:47 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 04, 2019, 02:02:06 PM

In one of those games AND he kicked ENES butt.

OK, OK, ...you win!(http://www.flockandherd.net.au/other/images/horsesuddendeath02.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on January 04, 2019, 02:24:48 PM
KNOX

Complete shooting splits

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/k/knoxke01/shooting/2019 (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/k/knoxke01/shooting/2019)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on January 04, 2019, 02:27:42 PM
42-135 between 3 and 22 feet

Ouch.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 04, 2019, 03:18:48 PM
Quote
The Chicago Bulls have traded forward Justin Holiday to the Memphis Grizzlies for guard MarShon Brooks and guard/forward Wayne Selden Jr., as well as the Grizzlies’ 2019 and 2020 second-round picks. In a related move, the Bulls also waived guard Cameron Payne.

I saw Cam Payne play just the other day and he looked like he knew what he was doing but was just not good at it.  Right ideas, poor execution.  I wasn't sure if it was just rust or he's a bum, so I didn't mention it.  Reportedly Bulls looking to drop Brooks.  He's one of the few to play in China and return to the NBofA (excluding the strike year).  Holiday a nice pickup for Memf.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on January 04, 2019, 04:38:42 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 04, 2019, 02:06:50 AM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on January 03, 2019, 08:19:12 PM
No such stat as defensive +/-

Really?

Quote
Kanter scored 17 points and grabbed 12 rebounds in just 20 minutes of work Tuesday night. He is averaging 14.4 points and 10.6 rebounds per game, but he ranks 60th in defensive real plus-minus amid the 61 qualified centers.

Yeah, my mistake,
Kanter's 61 out of 61 now.
http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/2/sort/DRPM/position/9

So the thing about RPM is that it realises that regular +/- is highly susceptible to small sample size and all kinds of uncontrollable factors (did an opponent have an unusually strong or weak game that had nothing to do with you and skews your stats and provides little predictable value?). There was just too much variance within years and between years for +/- to be too useful a stat.

So what they've done is tried to reduce standard errors by "regularising". This means subjecting the data to stuff like similarity scores, looking at three years data rather than just year, a player's age, the score of the game, even a player's height (which is why taller players have better DRPMs...the model presumes taller players are better defenders). The model makes assumptions on what parameters should be set as limits for a players contributions and uses them as inputs for the stat.

RPM suffers from two major flaws: 1) there's an awful lot they haven't ever explained (like how much each factor is worth), and 2) like all +/- stats, it cannot completely isolate a player's contribution as opposed to who the player tends to play with (collinearity or multicollinearity issues). It still relies on loads of presumptions (a short, aging point guard who only plays garbage time minutes and has struggled for the past couple of years can only have x impact on a game and his stats should be massaged accordingly).

Most stats guys begrudgingly say it's probably as good a +/- stat as any (begrudgingly, I'm guessing, because it's proprietary and also they stole most of the model and refurbished it). But it ain't gospel.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 04, 2019, 07:13:20 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on January 04, 2019, 04:38:42 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 04, 2019, 02:06:50 AM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on January 03, 2019, 08:19:12 PM
No such stat as defensive +/-

Really?

Quote
Kanter scored 17 points and grabbed 12 rebounds in just 20 minutes of work Tuesday night. He is averaging 14.4 points and 10.6 rebounds per game, but he ranks 60th in defensive real plus-minus amid the 61 qualified centers.

Yeah, my mistake,
Kanter's 61 out of 61 now.
http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/2/sort/DRPM/position/9

So the thing about RPM is that it realises that regular +/- is highly susceptible to small sample size and all kinds of uncontrollable factors (did an opponent have an unusually strong or weak game that had nothing to do with you and skews your stats and provides little predictable value?). There was just too much variance within years and between years for +/- to be too useful a stat.

So what they've done is tried to reduce standard errors by "regularising". This means subjecting the data to stuff like similarity scores, looking at three years data rather than just year, a player's age, the score of the game, even a player's height (which is why taller players have better DRPMs...the model presumes taller players are better defenders). The model makes assumptions on what parameters should be set as limits for a players contributions and uses them as inputs for the stat.

RPM suffers from two major flaws: 1) there's an awful lot they haven't ever explained (like how much each factor is worth), and 2) like all +/- stats, it cannot completely isolate a player's contribution as opposed to who the player tends to play with (collinearity or multicollinearity issues). It still relies on loads of presumptions (a short, aging point guard who only plays garbage time minutes and has struggled for the past couple of years can only have x impact on a game and his stats should be massaged accordingly).

Most stats guys begrudgingly say it's probably as good a +/- stat as any (begrudgingly, I'm guessing, because it's proprietary and also they stole most of the model and refurbished it). But it ain't gospel.

And you need three years experience to look decent.
Our squad is the 2nd youngest in the L

But Mud, Kant, and Tim have no such excuse
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 05, 2019, 01:17:18 AM
Nice to win at Staples.

Kanter with good all around effort.

Mudiay outplayed Ball which was key.

The sloppy shooting team overcame the sloppy passing team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 05, 2019, 01:49:52 AM
Big offensive AND defensive plays by Kanter to help close the win.

Lol, you are so stupid, Kam. But amusing.

Nice subbing by Fizzy, he coached to win for a change.

*** and decent second half by Mudiay, despite getting stuffed 5! times — and that inexplicable rush offense play with 1:20 left in a kill-the-clock situation...Wot was that??
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 05, 2019, 03:35:40 AM
Defensive real plus-minus provides a metric for defense.  And so it's useful on that level.  Of course you always should apply the eye test as well, and see if things seem to line up.  Mostly the visually good defenders are at the top and weak defenders at the bottom.

I noticed that Klay Thompson was near the bottom for SG's.  I think he's a solid defender but overrated.  He understands position and angles, but he fouls a bit much and guys can drive by him.  I rate him as an average defender from watching games.  DRPM puts him much lower.  But mostly the ratings correspond to what most folks see.

There's always things that won't be counted by stats.  Things like box outs so teammates get the rebound (sort of rebound-assists -- though I think overall boxouts are being charted).  Sometimes I'm playing and will set an unexpected screen and my teammate goes in for an easy layup, and I think that was my score.  Or even I see that my teammate can beat his defender off the dribble so I cut to clear the side for him.  And when it works, I think I should get an assist.  Of course, that kind of intangible is easier to pull in 4-on-4 halfcourt.

I'm rambling, but there's a lot going on in 100 possessions a game.  And defense requires more coordination and communication than offense.  I do think it's clear that the Knicks have more offenders than defenders.  And some of our players are rather weak at D.  As Les asks, going forward is Mud-Tim any kind of reliable backcourt pairing?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 05, 2019, 03:47:15 AM
Saw some of a very streaky Mavs- Celts game. To end the half, Doncic dribbles behind his back, jukes Smart, sidesteps and launches and off-balance 3 that goes in just before the ohrn.  Doncic actually wanted a foul too, as Smart landed in basically Doncic's spot and they both went down.  The kid makes crazy plays.
Dirk went 0-10 FG; 0-8 on 3's/  Zero points, 3 fouls.

Yikes
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 05, 2019, 03:52:27 AM
I liked Knox early and late. The consistency will come when he gets further along in puberty.

I think the trick to Kanter is he’s got to be willing to run his ass off, pick hard, and risk fouls, all of which he did this game. It’s not how he was approaching things while he was angling for an All-star bid. It makes a lot more sense for him to play that way now the prior approach got him benched for greener less physical players and he’s fighting for a next contract. If Enes keeps it up, it might slightly derail the tank.

Mudiay had quite the rebound from an abysmal first half.

We’re pretty good when we can steal the ball. We should do more of that.

Our 20 year olds, Mitch and Frank, get to rest ankles, pump iron, work on handles and one-footed, and chair shots.

Mario & Trey showed why they were here.

Full strength Blazers should put us back in the dumps again. It would be good to play them close at least.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 05, 2019, 03:55:37 AM
Knox has stamina issues.  That's fine.  Play him 1Q & 3Q.

Mud again with rim issues.
Blew a 2-on-1 fast break layup.  And got blocked by ball on another.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on January 05, 2019, 10:13:30 AM
Kant KAN, baby!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on January 05, 2019, 10:20:58 AM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on January 04, 2019, 01:10:03 PM
Austin Rivers 5-0 with Rockets, including wins over OKC, Boston and Golden State.

37 minutes per.
40% from deep.

Since you love to cherry pick stats of your fave players, can we start getting game-by-game updates of how Lonzo Ball shoots on free throws? Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on January 05, 2019, 11:31:51 AM
No.  But you can provide for the masses.

Point on Rivers is he seems to have been a good pickup for D'ant's team.  Nothing else.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on January 05, 2019, 11:36:19 AM
Mudy had about the best 4-16 I have seen.  Key in 3rd quarter spurt.  Once again many a dime not cashed.

Unguardable.

What happens when the help comes needs to be better.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 05, 2019, 03:12:00 PM
Yup, pretty nice second half. Liked how he ran the offense. Only got stuffed once at the rack vs. 4 times in the first half. 4-16 likely because he couldn't get off the lane step back that has been his staple over the last few weeks. The trouble with evolving is that people evolve to you.

You could see that with Kornet last night. The 3 that goes in so easy when wide open and in-rhythm barely hits the side of a barn when not the case...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on January 05, 2019, 03:57:41 PM
Korn-o had a nice take down the lane.  McGee got there but the move was quite strong.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 05, 2019, 04:40:00 PM
he's slowly unveiling other stuff, besides the 3, which is as it should be
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on January 05, 2019, 05:38:18 PM
I love this group. A total commitment to picking and developing young ones. A win once a week, tons of competitive losses.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on January 05, 2019, 05:39:45 PM
I think we may be ok if we bring everyone back.  Maybe still look to deal Lee, sure.  Can cut bait with Burke since you love Trier and will massage Frank.

Mudiay/KP hasn't been seen yet right?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 05, 2019, 06:24:57 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on January 05, 2019, 03:12:00 PM
Yup, pretty nice second half. Liked how he ran the offense. Only got stuffed once at the rack vs. 4 times in the first half. 4-16 likely because he couldn't get off the lane step back that has been his staple over the last few weeks. The trouble with evolving is that people evolve to you. hitting tough shots is your luck eventually runs out.
.

Good point.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on January 05, 2019, 08:10:03 PM
Yep.

They were lucky shots in high school too.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on January 05, 2019, 08:20:38 PM
https://www.nbadraft.net/players/emmanuel-mudiay (https://www.nbadraft.net/players/emmanuel-mudiay)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 06, 2019, 12:32:59 AM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on January 05, 2019, 08:10:03 PM
Yep.

They were lucky shots in high school too.

Hitting shots 5 years ago.....   where was that his first three years? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 06, 2019, 02:53:04 AM
Kanter not going on the London trip.
UK won't care about any Erdogan Interpol requests.
But Kant is concerned about being kidnapped or assassinated.
Might sound dramatic, but Putin has done such.
And we saw Erdogan security thugs beating up protesters in Washington DC last year.
So why take the risk?
And this after Kant was stripped of his Turkish passport while in Europe last year, with Interpol notices out on him, and had to scramble to get US protection before something bad happened.
I'd be paranoid too.  Sometimes paranoia just means that you correctly understand what's going on.

In Turkey, scores of journalists have been jailed, most independent media shuttered, thousands of political prisoners languishing in jail for being suspected Gulen followers.  Tens of thousands removed from their jobs and under surveillance.  A virtual dictatorship with a democratic facade, like Putin's Russia.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 06, 2019, 03:06:53 AM
If trump hangs around much longer, LBJ might find himself in a similar predicament here. Trump favors that same style of government also popular with Fredette fans.

I hope Mudiay can keep inching closer to his ceiling. He’s no longer a clear liability which is major progress.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 06, 2019, 02:36:33 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 06, 2019, 02:53:04 AM
Sometimes paranoia just means that you correctly understand what's going on.


When said best:


Just because you're paranoid, don't mean they're not after you.
Title: Tank alert
Post by: Kam on January 06, 2019, 04:26:01 PM
I can't be mad about beating LA.

Bulls
Hawks
Suns

All have winnable home games today
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on January 06, 2019, 08:12:55 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 06, 2019, 03:06:53 AM


I hope Mudiay can keep inching closer to his ceiling. He’s no longer a clear liability which is major progress.


Attaboy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 06, 2019, 09:13:44 PM
Hawks did it. Bulls fell short. Phoenix was up early.

Thibs got the boot in Minny.

Mudiay is close to playing like he’s worth his cap hold, but has yet to get over the hump.

The Hobbled Lakers got waxed again, showing that our achievement wasn’t all that grand, however good it felt.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 06, 2019, 10:46:46 PM
Phoenix flops, unable to contain Kemba.

I think the bulls and Suns will both finish with worse records than the Knicks. The Cavs could as well, unless we hit some bad luck along the way.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 06, 2019, 11:16:23 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 06, 2019, 02:36:33 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 06, 2019, 02:53:04 AM
Sometimes paranoia just means that you correctly understand what's going on.

When said best:
Just because you're paranoid, don't mean they're not after you.

Actually my favorite iteration:

Even paranoids have real enemies

From Delmore Schwartz, and I believe the origin of that sentiment.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 06, 2019, 11:56:37 PM
Cavs dropped McCaw and added Cam Payne.

I thought McCaw was a Holiday replacement, and a young guy with two-way potential to build with.  But who knows his conditioning or readiness.

Adding Cam Payne not exactly a vote of confidence for Dunn or Arcidiacono.  Acidflashback had a pretty strong start , but has been slumping since December.  Sometimes that's what happens once you make the scouting report.  But I haven't seen the Bulls except for one game a month back.

Cam Payne looks China-bound to me.  But I guess the hope is he can stay healthy and become a viable backup PG.  He doesn't do anything well. 

As for Bulls, I'm not a ZLaV fan, but I guess their starters going forward are:  PG? - Zach - SF? - Markaanen - Carter Jr.
Portis looks like a solid backup F.
Dunn or Arcidiacono might be able to be a backup PG.
So that's 3 starters and likely just 2 backups.
They'll add another high draft pick this Summer.
But they really need an infusion of talent.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on January 07, 2019, 12:01:47 AM
D'Angelo!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on January 07, 2019, 12:09:46 AM
Bulls omissions

Valentine
Portis
Hutchison
Title: Re: Jinx alert
Post by: carlos123 on January 07, 2019, 12:21:11 AM
Quote from: Kam on January 06, 2019, 04:26:01 PM
I can't be mad about beating LA.

Bulls
Hawks
Suns

All have winnable home games today

You jinxed the Bulls and the Suns.

That, in addition to being the main source of Ebola :)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 07, 2019, 01:05:44 AM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on January 07, 2019, 12:09:46 AM
Bulls omissions

Valentine
Portis
Hutchison

I have Portis in there as a quality backup.  A Taj type they hope.
Edit: autocorrect turned him into Porter.

Hutch, Val, Blakenay -- maybe they can get one rotation player out of that.  I haven't really seen Hutch.  Blake is a Trier type chucker, good on corner 3's, but never passes.  They also just picked up Selden from Memf, but he seems marginal.  Valentine plays with effort.  they all seem like minimum level players, but I'll try to see the Bulls again to decide.

As for Thibs:
I'd rather have Covington & Saric than Zach/Dunn/Marakaanen (he was the pick, right).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on January 07, 2019, 07:22:45 AM
Wow

No on that last part.

Markaanen is special and Lavine could be.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on January 07, 2019, 08:29:54 AM
Lonzo!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on January 07, 2019, 08:54:24 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 07, 2019, 01:05:44 AM
As for Thibs:
I'd rather have Covington & Saric than Zach/Dunn/Marakaanen (he was the pick, right).

Interesting question! I guess it depends on what you like to see on the basketball court. Cov is so good defensively, he's the best of the bunch today. Lauri has the highest ceiling, but Lavine is terrible defensively (and overrated offensively, imo, even if he is certainly skilled and athletic) and they may not pair well together defensively. Dunn looks like an average back-up PG.

I'll use Lavine's terrible contract as a tie-breaker and go with the ex-Sixers duo too. But it's close.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on January 07, 2019, 12:36:43 PM
 How many guys are shooting 46/35/87 this year?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on January 07, 2019, 12:41:29 PM
And is Dunn really getting near FIVE boards a game and shooting 48%?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 07, 2019, 12:44:24 PM
I'll take Cov over Maark; Saric over Zach.

Covington is a high level 2-way player.
Saric does a lot of little things that help a team.

Maark is a nice player, but I see him as more of a high plateau guy than someone who keeps getting better.  Seems like he already has a mature game, so I don't anticipate a high ceiling.
Zach is a defensive mess, erratic shooter, overpaid, injury history.
Dunn = defensive effort, shooting woes.  A backup PG.

When the first Butler trade was made, Zach was an erratic gimp looking for a big payday, Dunn a mess, the pick an unknown.
It was an infusion of (risky) yute.  CHI lucky they hit on the pick.  Maark taken 7th one slot ahead of Franc. 
Title: Zards Waive Burgundy
Post by: Kam on January 07, 2019, 01:39:53 PM
Ron Baker bye bye
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 07, 2019, 02:27:29 PM
Turkoglu, now some kind of paid toady for Erdogan, dismisses Kanter's beef as some ongoing "smear campaign."

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25705352/hedo-turkoglu-says-enes-kanter-new-york-knicks-irrational-smear-campaign-turkey (http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25705352/hedo-turkoglu-says-enes-kanter-new-york-knicks-irrational-smear-campaign-turkey)

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 07, 2019, 02:43:47 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 07, 2019, 02:27:29 PM
Turkoglu, now some kind of paid toady for Erdogan, dismisses Kanter's beef as some ongoing "smear campaign."

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25705352/hedo-turkoglu-says-enes-kanter-new-york-knicks-irrational-smear-campaign-turkey (http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25705352/hedo-turkoglu-says-enes-kanter-new-york-knicks-irrational-smear-campaign-turkey)


Not that i would ever want to sound anti-Kanter but .. get off the twitter already.  It's not making your life any easier.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 07, 2019, 03:00:23 PM
yeah, dooder, I don't know why ya'd ever want to speak out against a dictator when ya could just spend the time sucking that bong s'more....
Title: Re: Zards Waive Burgundy
Post by: facilitatorn on January 07, 2019, 03:07:14 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 07, 2019, 01:39:53 PM
Ron Baker bye bye

Outplayed by Mr. Randle, a good small guard to bring off your bench.

I’m seeing ripples of Kanter to Kings for Kufos being discussed. I’d be in favor of it. I support him shitting on Edrogan from a perch on the west coast. Vlade can tutor him personally and he could be sixth man of the year. WCS and Bagely would both pair well with him. He’s entering his “prime”, they’re “on the cusp”.

We could use a little adult supervision from a guy with a solid base at the pivot.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 07, 2019, 03:55:59 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on January 07, 2019, 03:00:23 PM
yeah, dooder, I don't know why ya'd ever want to speak out against a dictator when ya could just spend the time sucking that bong s'more....


So you're saying every other Turkish NBA player is a piece of shit erdogan thug.  Why can't they be more like Enes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Turkish_NBA_players (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Turkish_NBA_players)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 07, 2019, 03:59:36 PM
lol, that does not follow logically in the least from what I said, but it sure looks like Hedo is😉
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 07, 2019, 04:00:25 PM
Enes troubles all stem from his open mouth.

Sprewell Syndrome
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 07, 2019, 04:10:38 PM

92% of Kam's stupidest posts stem from his Enes obsession;)

Kanter Kondition


*** Actually, Sprewell's problems didn't originate with his mouth; they stemmed from his inability to control his temper and the resultant physical manifestations of that lack of self control, i.e. choking his coach, breaking his hand in a fistfight. One could argue that bad business decision making was another issue, i.e. turning down a 21 million dollar contract, failing to pay mortgages on various properties. Wrong here, just like everywhere else..
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 07, 2019, 04:14:52 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 07, 2019, 04:00:25 PM
Enes troubles all stem from his open mouth.

Sprewell Syndrome

jest another uppity nigro...

*** shet that piehole and dribble Inez
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 07, 2019, 05:15:14 PM
I noticed Randle was getting minutes and Baker wasn't.

Kanter's travel issues stem from Turkey cancelling his Turkish passport when he was in Europe.  And putting an Interpol red notice out on him, which could have had him sent to Erdogan's gulags in a hurry.  BS charges: insulting the president, supporting Gulen. 

Really, I'd prefer that Kanter do more talking.  Shift from talking in general terms and cite more specifics about the number of newspapers closed, journalists thrown in jail, political prisoners in Turkey.  Kanter has a platform and can reach folks who otherwise wouldn't be much aware of what Erdogan is up to.  So he should use it to educate and provide facts.  He should also consider testifying in Congress if the House holds many hearings on Turkey.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on January 07, 2019, 05:23:24 PM
Fiz ain't playing Koufos.

Pass.  Unless we get picks.
Title: Re: Zards Waive Burgundy
Post by: thebizneverloses on January 07, 2019, 06:23:15 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 07, 2019, 03:07:14 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 07, 2019, 01:39:53 PM
Ron Baker bye bye

Outplayed by Mr. Randle, a good small guard to bring off your bench.

I’m seeing ripples of Kanter to Kings for Kufos being discussed. I’d be in favor of it. I support him shitting on Edrogan from a perch on the west coast. Vlade can tutor him personally and he could be sixth man of the year. WCS and Bagely would both pair well with him. He’s entering his “prime”, they’re “on the cusp”.

We could use a little adult supervision from a guy with a solid base at the pivot.

Worth it if we can get a second rounder or two. Enes isn't going to be here, and his presence might be a bit toxic after a while given his reasonable expectation of playing time over inferior players, in a contract year. But in a rebuilding situation, trading him to a playoff bubble team for a second rounder or two is a good idea, irrespective of which expirings come back.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on January 07, 2019, 07:40:27 PM
Nice double dip tonight

Dangelo vs Kyrie
EM vs Lillard
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on January 07, 2019, 07:41:48 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/nothinbutnets.com/2019/01/06/brooklyn-nets-dangelo-russell-becoming-leader-another-gm-craved/amp/ (https://www.google.com/amp/s/nothinbutnets.com/2019/01/06/brooklyn-nets-dangelo-russell-becoming-leader-another-gm-craved/amp/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on January 07, 2019, 07:43:10 PM
Napier starting tonight

Ian Eagle stating how Tatum has regressed year 2.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on January 07, 2019, 08:00:34 PM
Nets have six threes and are down 5.  Kenneth Faried (5 points) sighting.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on January 07, 2019, 08:06:19 PM
Smart being a bit of a dick.  May have been some pregame Nets chatter.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 07, 2019, 10:16:36 PM
Over Under 19.5 wins?

Quote
Quote from: thebizneverloses on October 22, 2018, 02:04:14 AM

Los 20
Les 21
Biz 23
Ade 23
BoD 23
Bank 24
Nagel 25
Zup 30
Yank 30
Ike 31
J Straw 31
Early 32
Chip 33
Kam 33
Fac 34
Klint 36
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 07, 2019, 10:16:48 PM
Nurkic swiftly pulling a Gobert on Kornet.  Word gets around quick..
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 07, 2019, 10:19:05 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on January 07, 2019, 10:16:48 PM
Nurkic swiftly pulling a Gobert on Kornet.  Word gets around quick..


That's weird...

Your mom's name is Word?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on January 07, 2019, 10:21:49 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on January 07, 2019, 08:29:54 AM
Lonzo!

Big game tonight
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 07, 2019, 10:22:47 PM
Kornet strikes back!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on January 07, 2019, 10:27:50 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on January 07, 2019, 10:21:49 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on January 07, 2019, 08:29:54 AM
Lonzo!

Big game tonight
D'Angelo!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on January 07, 2019, 10:30:50 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on January 07, 2019, 10:27:50 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on January 07, 2019, 10:21:49 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on January 07, 2019, 08:29:54 AM
Lonzo!

Big game tonight
D'Angelo!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/clutchpoints.com/nets-news-dangelo-russell-eligible-for-9-1-million-qualifying-offer/amp/ (https://www.google.com/amp/s/clutchpoints.com/nets-news-dangelo-russell-eligible-for-9-1-million-qualifying-offer/amp/)
Title: Super Mario World
Post by: Kam on January 07, 2019, 10:50:34 PM
Okay Okay.... i see you.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 07, 2019, 11:21:03 PM
Yeah, Tangelo 5 Pts & 6 TO's.

Tuned in early 2Q and Kanter has played well.
Two nice O-boards.  Got fouled on a putback.  Reset the other.  Some good passing to get Zonja some buckets.

Meyers Leonard always looks fine whenever I see the Blazers.  3 assists and 1 O-board, a dunk in 8 mins.

Zonja playing well, but then a travel and a poor pass.  Kornet with a feeble pass as well.  Tighten that stuff up guys.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 07, 2019, 11:47:04 PM
Lillard providing no resistance.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 07, 2019, 11:52:57 PM
Knix rolled over in 3Q.
Finished with a quick8-0 run in the last minutes to possibly salvage something.  Down 10 instead of 18.  But I don't have time to see the 4Q.
Title: Burke Island
Post by: Kam on January 07, 2019, 11:58:18 PM
Burke plays like he isn't part of the offense.  He plays as if he is the offense.  It just doesn't feel like he is part of the team fabric.

Title: 13 assists as a team
Post by: Kam on January 08, 2019, 12:02:29 AM
Everything is one - on - one
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on January 08, 2019, 12:03:55 AM
Why did Knox start the 3rd quarter?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on January 08, 2019, 12:05:16 AM
Knick sets are non existent.
Title: Kam(s)ter and his boss Recep
Post by: carlos123 on January 08, 2019, 12:33:23 AM
Quote from: Kam on January 07, 2019, 03:55:59 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on January 07, 2019, 03:00:23 PM
yeah, dooder, I don't know why ya'd ever want to speak out against a dictator when ya could just spend the time sucking that bong s'more....


So you're saying every other Turkish NBA player is a piece of shit erdogan thug.  Why can't they be more like Enes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Turkish_NBA_players (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Turkish_NBA_players)

Kam(s)ter, as you know, every other Turkish player who wants to get back to Turkey has to at least pretend they’re with your boss Recep. U know how dictatorships work, don’t you?

Now, go back to spreading Ebola  ;D
Title: Re: Kam(s)ter and his boss Recep
Post by: Kam on January 08, 2019, 12:38:37 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 08, 2019, 12:33:23 AM
Quote from: Kam on January 07, 2019, 03:55:59 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on January 07, 2019, 03:00:23 PM
yeah, dooder, I don't know why ya'd ever want to speak out against a dictator when ya could just spend the time sucking that bong s'more....


So you're saying every other Turkish NBA player is a piece of shit erdogan thug.  Why can't they be more like Enes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Turkish_NBA_players (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Turkish_NBA_players)

Kam(s)ter, as you know, every other Turkish player who wants to get back to Turkey has to at least pretend they’re with your boss Recep. U know how dictatorships work, don’t you?

Now, go back to spreading Ebola  ;D

When i said his mouth is his biggest problem it wasn't about Turkey.  The guy burns bridges unnecessarily.  He could have took his demotion, said nothing, and maybe not cost himself several million on his next deal by crying about how he can't believe Knicks have more faith in Chop Suey than him.  How is that supposed to  make his teammates (Namely Luke) feel?  How is the veteran leadership and mentoring going.... what kind of example is that?  He is a doofus.  Lovable doofus? ok.  Still a doof.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 08, 2019, 12:41:26 AM
He is basically upset the Knicks didn't support his All-Star bid.

That type of player for me is no bueno Carlos123.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 08, 2019, 03:11:31 AM
Rockets beat the West leading Nugz

Impressive that Portland beat them by basically the same score we lost by.

Houston is back.

—-


We should definitely be sellers at the deadline ... now less than thirty days away.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 08, 2019, 04:40:21 AM
A dud from non-slumping elite Tim.
Edit: Aside from his hot start in 8 games in October.
Tim has shot 37.4% in Nov; 37.6% in Dec and so far 38.1% in Jan.
3-pointers: 31.8%, 34.5%, 23.8% (just 3 Jan. games), respectively.
2 solid months of poor shooting (while he has upped his FT's and passing some)

Kant with a solid game, tied with Zonja with a game high +7.  6 o-boards.  Just think he's a high caliber backup that most teams 2nd units can't handle.  So if reasonably priced (~$6M) and willing to be primarily a backup, I'd like him back.  I'm also fine hitching my horse to Chop Suey and MitchRider -- or are they the horses in this metaphor and I'd hitch my reigns to them? -- however it works.

I'm much more concerned about our backcourt, where Mud & Tim aren't players I like, not reliable, weak defense, etc.

Othersowise, it's very easy to get thrown in jail in Turkey these days.  Or to lose your job, or have your family harassed (or lose their jobs), or have your passport revoked, or just generally be surveilled and harassed.  Nebulous charges include: insulting the president; belonging to the Gulen movement (previously affiliated with Erdogan); threatening state security, etc.

I assume pressure was brought on Turkoglu to counter Kanter.  Folks are being forced to choose sides.  It's the: You're either with us, or you support terrorism.   (Erdogan defines the Gulenists as a terrorist movement).  Rough time for civil society in Turkey.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 08, 2019, 05:16:11 AM
Tim was the tank saving dog in this one.

Kanter did a lot, but it was a full mix of the bad and the good. His screens were noticeably on today. His hands seemed shaky and his help D was what we have come to expect.

Vonleh was tight but still provided Kanter level production with excellent agile defense.

We got an uncharacteristic bad stretch of D from Dot.

Jake Layman killed us. He’s an interesting player.

It’s nice to see Mario find a grove. It helps Fizz raise the standards for Knox.

Let’s go stick it to the Dubs.
Title: Re: Burke Island
Post by: thebizneverloses on January 08, 2019, 09:28:27 AM
Quote from: Kam on January 07, 2019, 11:58:18 PM
Burke plays like he isn't part of the offense.  He plays as if he is the offense.  It just doesn't feel like he is part of the team fabric.

Agree
Title: Re: Kam(s)ter and his boss Recep
Post by: carlos123 on January 08, 2019, 10:27:16 AM
Quote from: Kam on January 08, 2019, 12:38:37 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 08, 2019, 12:33:23 AM
Quote from: Kam on January 07, 2019, 03:55:59 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on January 07, 2019, 03:00:23 PM
yeah, dooder, I don't know why ya'd ever want to speak out against a dictator when ya could just spend the time sucking that bong s'more....


So you're saying every other Turkish NBA player is a piece of shit erdogan thug.  Why can't they be more like Enes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Turkish_NBA_players (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Turkish_NBA_players)

Kam(s)ter, as you know, every other Turkish player who wants to get back to Turkey has to at least pretend they’re with your boss Recep. U know how dictatorships work, don’t you?

Now, go back to spreading Ebola  ;D

When i said his mouth is his biggest problem it wasn't about Turkey.  The guy burns bridges unnecessarily.  He could have took his demotion, said nothing, and maybe not cost himself several million on his next deal by crying about how he can't believe Knicks have more faith in Chop Suey than him.  How is that supposed to  make his teammates (Namely Luke) feel?  How is the veteran leadership and mentoring going.... what kind of example is that?  He is a doofus.  Lovable doofus? ok.  Still a doof.

Oh, now you don’t wanna hurt poor Luke sensitivities.

Phuck Luke and phuck you too  ::)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 08, 2019, 11:06:05 AM
Tune in 3 mins into the 3Q and Griz up 5.  Pels proceed to go on a  15-0 run for the next 5 mins, with Memf turning the ball over like mad and fouling a lot.  Griz only managed 44 2nd half points.
Frank Jackson had a great scoring game for NOPe.
Career high 17 Pts in 19 mins.  7-10 FG; 3-5 on treys.
I thought he was shorter, but he looked a legit 6'3".
Was the #31 pick last year.
I guess everyone looks good in their career high, but he looked confident.  Looked quite comfortable and confident.  Didn't hesitate on 3's.  Even faked a 3, drove baseline and then tossed a behind-the-back pass to Davis.  Nice for NO if they have another player.  I already like Frank Jax better than Ian Clark.

Noah put up a lot of stats for Griz.  8 7 8 in 14 mins.  + 3 turnovers.  One play he got a nice feed down low, dunked and got called for a tech for rim-hanging.  One of his 3 o-boards he hesitated and had it stripped by a small guard (Frazier).  Noah was active but looked a bit rusty.

Jah Okafor did all right.  But man, even on his offensive highlights he looks awkward. 

You can see the promise of Jaren Jax, but he had 5 fouls and just 1 rebound.  One foul was just a close out on a 3-point shooter where he clearly whacked the guy on the hand after the release.  Gotta learn to close out better than that.

Both teams with similar records, struggling to get to .500.
Title: Re: Kam(s)ter and his boss Recep
Post by: Kam on January 08, 2019, 11:56:45 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 08, 2019, 10:27:16 AM

Oh, now you don’t wanna hurt poor Luke sensitivities.

Phuck Luke and phuck you too  ::)

Phuck Turkey
Title: Spanish lessons
Post by: carlos123 on January 08, 2019, 02:43:10 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 08, 2019, 12:41:26 AM
He is basically upset the Knicks didn't support his All-Star bid.

That type of player for me is no bueno Carlos123.

Kam(s)ter, I think you need Spanish lessons before you use the language. May I suggest you seek help form your friend Chico Cartero, aka Kiid.

Oh, and phuck Turkey too  :)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 08, 2019, 03:16:08 PM
Hardaway is rarely a subject of discussion anymore.

Is this because it's just commonly understood that he's a disappointment? And at this point, there's no reason that should change?

It will be much easier to accept his erratic play when he isn't designated as the main scoring option (or even the 2nd or 3rd option).
Title: Re: Spanish lessons
Post by: Kam on January 08, 2019, 03:37:00 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 08, 2019, 02:43:10 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 08, 2019, 12:41:26 AM
He is basically upset the Knicks didn't support his All-Star bid.

That type of player for me is no bueno Carlos123.

Kam(s)ter, I think you need Spanish lessons before you use the language.


Yo Entiende Senor

4 years of Spanish at PS 145
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 08, 2019, 03:40:10 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 08, 2019, 03:16:08 PM
Hardaway is rarely a subject of discussion anymore.

It will be much easier to accept his erratic play when he isn't designated as the main scoring option (or even the 2nd or 3rd option).

He has improved around the edges... (passing, rebounds, charges taken) but his shooting is still around 39%

Option
1. KP
2. KK
3. JRhard
Title: Re: Spanish lessons
Post by: carlos123 on January 08, 2019, 03:51:58 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 08, 2019, 03:37:00 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 08, 2019, 02:43:10 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 08, 2019, 12:41:26 AM
He is basically upset the Knicks didn't support his All-Star bid.

That type of player for me is no bueno Carlos123.

Kam(s)ter, I think you need Spanish lessons before you use the language.


Yo Entiende Senor

4 years of Spanish at PS 145

Afraid PS 145 didn’t do a good job with your Spanish. You really should consult with Chico.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on January 08, 2019, 10:02:55 PM
Tanking teams have no heroes?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on January 08, 2019, 10:21:09 PM
4 assists tonight for Oubre replacement Sam Dekker (14-4-3)

Yeah, lets first get more guys who can pass.  Solid mantra for any team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on January 08, 2019, 10:29:18 PM
Wishing Flip's kid well in Minnesota

Has a 1 point lead with 3 to play in his debut.

Looks like first order of business was to let Wiggins loose.
Title: Tank Alert
Post by: carlos123 on January 08, 2019, 11:32:23 PM
Wow!!!

The Suns won a game!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 08, 2019, 11:40:04 PM
We're due for a Tim hot streak.
But he has expanded his game.  Also getting FT's, which can help a scorer get going, or at least can offset a poor shooting night.
And yes Tim is in the wrong role.  At least while slumping he really hasn't been trying to be the 1st option every night.  But people did get atad too excited during the opening 8 game hot streak.  Tim is capable of going off.  But streaky, oftentimes even within games.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 08, 2019, 11:43:39 PM
Not going to stay up late for the second half. Can't be tired at work on account of a team not being coached to win.

First half. Competitive every minute Inez was on the floor.
Noncompetitive every minute he wasn't.

Happy to get the end results of a purposeful tank, but don't need to watch it!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 08, 2019, 11:53:23 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on January 08, 2019, 10:21:09 PM
4 assists tonight for Oubre replacement Sam Dekker (14-4-3)
Yeah, lets first get more guys who can pass.  Solid mantra for any team.

And Wiz lost by 17.
Meanwhile, Ubermensch had 26 / 5 / 4 assists, 3 steals and 1 block in a Suns win.  Hell, might be his career high in assists, but just more bad timing on your part.

Kind of an odd season for Uber.
Road:  45.6% FG   38.4% on 3's  FT's 2.8-3.3 .848  = 15.1 Pts
Home: 39.2% FG   22.9% on 3's  FT's 1.6-2.1 .750  =   9.3 Pts

Those Road #'s are really good.
Home numbers poor.  Even his FT% reflects that.
To me, that shows the promise is there.  If he can put up those Road #'s at Home, then he's very solid and a starter-level player.

More on (in)consistency:
October (7 games) 44.6% FG  38.% on 3's   92.0% FT's  5.3 Boards
November (15 g's) 38.8% FG  22.4% on 3's  72.2% FT's  4.1 Boards
December (14 g's) 46.3% FG  38.6% on 3's  81.4% FT's  3.9 Boards

Oct & Dec he has above average shooting #'s, slumped in Nov.

Again to me it says the talent is there and the kid just turned 23 and isn't consistent yet.  Plays with energy.  Hustles, defends.

I always think teams can always use defenders.
Playmaking can be done by your playmakers.
Title: Looney making Kanter look foolish
Post by: Kam on January 09, 2019, 12:09:06 AM
Grabbing rebounds in traffic, taking the ball out of Kanter's hands.
Title: KAM(s)TER ALERT: Looney making Kanter look foolish
Post by: carlos123 on January 09, 2019, 12:38:21 AM
Quote from: Kam on January 09, 2019, 12:09:06 AM
Grabbing rebounds in traffic, taking the ball out of Kanter's hands.

There you go again!

Every Knick looks foolish and frustrated tonight. Alas we’re just a bad team being ABUSED by the Dubs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 09, 2019, 11:32:14 AM
Quote
Dallas is one of just two N.B.A. teams, along with the Knicks, to hire Orreco, which proposes customized remedies to combat fatigue and tries to identify increased risk for injury and illness by obtaining a range of data from players’ blood and feeding it into machine-learning programs.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/07/sports/basketball/dallas-mavericks-blood-samples.html
Title: Re: KAM(s)TER ALERT: Looney making Kanter look foolish
Post by: Kam on January 09, 2019, 12:05:00 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 09, 2019, 12:38:21 AM
Quote from: Kam on January 09, 2019, 12:09:06 AM
Grabbing rebounds in traffic, taking the ball out of Kanter's hands.

There you go again!

Every Knick looks foolish and frustrated tonight. Alas we’re just a bad team being ABUSED by the Dubs.

Is your full name Carlos Dolan123

Knicks owner James Dolan is close to Kanter and is one of his son’s favorite players, according to a source.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 09, 2019, 12:05:37 PM
Or is Dolan one of Kanter's sons favorite guitar players?
Title: Re: KAM(s)TER ALERT: Looney making Kanter look foolish
Post by: carlos123 on January 09, 2019, 12:23:33 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 09, 2019, 12:05:00 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 09, 2019, 12:38:21 AM
Quote from: Kam on January 09, 2019, 12:09:06 AM
Grabbing rebounds in traffic, taking the ball out of Kanter's hands.

There you go again!

Every Knick looks foolish and frustrated tonight. Alas we’re just a bad team being ABUSED by the Dubs.

Is your full name Carlos Dolan123

Knicks owner James Dolan is close to Kanter and is one of his son’s favorite players, according to a source.

You found me out!!!

Just the poor cousin from “South of the Border”
Title: Zach Randolph for Enes Kanter
Post by: Kam on January 09, 2019, 01:32:02 PM
I'm really rooting for this trade to happen to make Lesters head explode.  His two favorite players ever.

Quote
Knicks brass unhappy with Enes' big mouth.

Knicks officials also weren’t thrilled with Kanter over the timing of Friday night’s inflammatory rant in Los Angeles about his decision not to go to London amid his political war with the Turkish leaders. It came after the Knicks broke an eight-game losing streak, against the Lakers.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 09, 2019, 03:13:57 PM
If we get Mitch healthy, ZBo would be just fine.

Kornet Mitch
Vonleh ZBo

Zach has a lot more craftiness to impart to our pups, which is the point this year anyway.
Title: The Kam(s)ter v. Enes Kanter
Post by: carlos123 on January 09, 2019, 03:14:33 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 09, 2019, 01:32:02 PM
The Kam(s)ter unhappy with Enes' big mouth.

The Kam(s)ter and Recep also weren’t thrilled with Kanter over the timing of Friday night’s explanation  in Los Angeles about his decision not to go to London amid his political persecution by Recep & Co. It came after the Knicks broke an eight-game losing streak, against the Lakers.

I thought your original post needed some fixin’. Why did you change it?

Stop it already! Me and my cousin are keeping Enes.
Title: Re: The Kam(s)ter v. Enes Kanter
Post by: Kam on January 09, 2019, 03:15:33 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 09, 2019, 03:14:33 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 09, 2019, 01:32:02 PM
The Kam(s)ter unhappy with Enes' big mouth.

The Kam(s)ter and Recep also weren’t thrilled with Kanter over the timing of Friday night’s explanation  in Los Angeles about his decision not to go to London amid his political persecution by Recep & Co. It came after the Knicks broke an eight-game losing streak, against the Lakers.

I thought your post needed some fixin’

Stop it already! Me and my cousin are keeping Enes.

ZBO!
Title: Les and ZBo
Post by: carlos123 on January 09, 2019, 03:21:48 PM
That love story is old news Kam(s)ter.

Me, my cousin and Les are all in for Enes.
Title: Re: Les and ZBo
Post by: Kam on January 09, 2019, 03:58:13 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 09, 2019, 03:21:48 PM
That love story is old news Kam(s)ter.

Me, my cousin and Les are all in for Enes.

I think Les likes ZBO more.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 09, 2019, 09:52:23 PM
Get me ZION-bow!

but they have to kick somehting in.
Title: Re: Les and ZBo
Post by: carlos123 on January 09, 2019, 10:03:27 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 09, 2019, 03:58:13 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 09, 2019, 03:21:48 PM
That love story is old news Kam(s)ter.

Me, my cousin and Les are all in for Enes.

I think Les likes ZBO more.

Nah, that was when ZBo was in Memphis.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/tmrzAiptXj-L6trlJKTrN-FznWqsm-NItKBLEQOoWhuOapA4Dz2W03bhIZsFu-GpZw6GQv4ljRbjJcnt1Q8e1SILE4RbFnkyHfMloljdTxBRujQhJWc29mnQmbCK9pF3tXFxiaKxzo-woT2GwW7xopU4iVKgKCkKg0CfnUeyYGAv9FGt_K5TGTNvWKeBM6_b_oEtUEga2qFsxqzW6rezn-OlmRgMmh6m-ciDscT8oBSZKih8yZqPPBFdIjTdfF8pYU4PXTtGGwoCV2n1PiH4l62C2Sxb1VdaHh_QQg4Q9CoMF5FA3VOkjUJAYygO2_kiKQFpfSj_Taw0lkn-xe2sS4xi9kr-PHmI_g_lqnzVwUDHJslOuxnDFKyfiaq29QD8kt5TUshDKoaTmNLxLqiaEzMZmzu1nuPB-O_GysQNaW8Trd9s5wygErCg3Uj9ZsWHAlZrufSLTa_vv6jOnZg7WP40-mbQ10sRarYxhdyA1tt2NeU6WUNFJamJaD_XYxyAAkoDKS7ZSkRhhLTJzHI-rkxCV5SYiiJE0ci3GnxnV4As-LaANoBvWCam8f2ZFplGxyILyu-QruzeYTgsxsGDicBglf6vE_UTbLvJggiUbX9E6GkKAb0rNvbwN34ROJkyiaTh1d2aGZINFg_A1llqN4I8=w788-h542-no)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 09, 2019, 11:38:04 PM
1 more assist for Oubre tonight - averaging 1 with Suns

Lonzo with 5 dimes and 5 boards first half, LA up 4 on Det.
Title: Tank Alert
Post by: carlos123 on January 09, 2019, 11:59:15 PM
Damn!

All of the competition lost. Atlanta lost, Cavaliers lost, Phoenix lost and the f’in Bulls are gonna lose.

Damn!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 10, 2019, 04:06:23 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 09, 2019, 11:38:04 PM
1 more assist for Oubre tonight - averaging 1 with Suns

Off the bench, Uber played the 2nd most minutes.
PHX had 5 guys with 5 or more fouls, with rook Melton fouling out.
DAL took 45 FT's.

Worrying about Uber's assists seems like worrying about Trey Burk's dunks or Kanter's 3-pointers.  Uber averages nearly 1 steal and 1 block per game ... and just 1 assist.  But if he had 3 assists per and negligible blocks or steals kiid would be satisfied.

I'd rather get the steals, blocks and hustle defense, and not worry about his passing.  He's 23 in his 4th year.  I'd be more concerned about consistency, especially 3-pt consistency for Uber, than upping his assists. The more he becomes a solid 3&D wing is where his value lies.  He also could use to add a little muscle/weight.

He's a good cutter and solid boarder.  He can add ballhandling and drives and passing later, but I don't think that's ever going to be a significant part of his game. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on January 10, 2019, 10:33:36 AM
Lonzo with 5 dimes and 5 boards first half....

Wow!! Generational talent!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 10, 2019, 10:50:11 AM
Couple of insane plays while I was watching.

I take it you missed the action once again.

Sad - it might enhance your posts if you were a more avid viewer.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on January 10, 2019, 10:56:20 AM
No, I watched.  And saw him break somebody's ankle.  He should take the ball to the rim more often.  GENERATIONAL TALENT!!!

Fortunately he didn't have to take any foul shots.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on January 10, 2019, 04:06:44 PM
I've got Anthony Davis and the seven little dwarfs and I am leading my fantasy league. How is he not an MVP candidate?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on January 10, 2019, 04:10:05 PM
Though I think Davis is no worse than 3 or 4th best player in the league, it's kind of hard to win MVP in the NBA if your team doesn't even make the playoffs. 
Title: I miss Nagel
Post by: carlos123 on January 10, 2019, 10:29:58 PM
Hey Chipster(n), TIME TO APOLOGIZE  to Nagel.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/SMElaLEBZAxG3HRh084ZSEn8HV8KEBAAs1yvStoAg_GmDncl9gxArV54BFUX5SFEj9aDzzwwPclpMOatt5tNcdmX0pZDGLPmFp0-hTCzngidoZv1E_WklWBBdpjICE4ReZ_YI0WfhUtCxaDhWbQGUgdKn9u6vggUSfCsrOVtiXzcGi3bGdFAYh1wC8GrPrWzF7eHrAXjSnYZL6iCgcRxVOWcUVXHoQBganN3g_JbKdNTIOew3sFfb8ktWZYTEuTW-d0r-Rldhcv8WwCmsZeNoMv2cK5JDjGZblaBKx1RbTzIk_DQEz4AEbnadPdSNfYyhcCjwyCsxiJSsoWUQA2edF77MB36Z6bVruYoLhNDMn1ENRMctmQiKBUQs7TG0jZq8l5JrDq-XjE6PZujBW3XUuFPzoTaqWPcWACS8VWQI1Y8-fTJmDXgTK0RDWQSgiSWEa5NjNCmUcfrTWeY5XFxQaLzISIdtoQFesLuK1esdIVWaXEGpJIyphVZmyraWfwbt9Myl4LeQpMCKkoL3jdY7y_GPMzaDiyDf3QKZAeeQqrmTX5C5LSX16Yy3XVmV_PdZx7AejVWH7iacEl-zHA2kxntrAu3Cfara1QfJU-hFU5gE_JcTZWJMfDDnQizTejBvdtVQbAgaJ2OwW4dWu2t3IfA=w938-h683-no)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 11, 2019, 12:47:43 AM
now Spurs Thunder was worth staying up for...wow
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 11, 2019, 07:33:25 AM
https://twitter.com/NewEraKnicks/status/1083580637553061888 (https://twitter.com/NewEraKnicks/status/1083580637553061888)
Title: From the You can't make this Up! dept.
Post by: Kam on January 11, 2019, 03:37:10 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 07, 2019, 04:00:25 PM
Enes troubles all stem from his open mouth.


Kanter sitting out ill from practice because he ate too many cheeseburgers.
Title: Re: From the You can't make this Up! dept.
Post by: Kam on January 11, 2019, 03:41:32 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 11, 2019, 03:37:10 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 07, 2019, 04:00:25 PM
Enes troubles all stem from his open mouth.


Kanter sitting out ill from practice because he ate too many cheeseburgers.

You guys aren't embarassed by his terrible defense
You aren't embarassed when he stupidly tweets opponents like Devin Booker who comes back roast him
What about when he can't practice because he tweeted himself eating 7 cheeseburgers??!

HOW ARE YOU NOT EMBARRASSED BY THIS FOOL??

HE is a laughingstock.

Starbury level pariah
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 11, 2019, 05:31:23 PM
Enes should have gone to the Wine n’ Dine. Clyde would have fed him right.
Title: Kam(s)ter boss happy with his work (maybe)
Post by: carlos123 on January 11, 2019, 05:35:17 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 11, 2019, 03:41:32 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 11, 2019, 03:37:10 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 07, 2019, 04:00:25 PM
Enes troubles all stem from his open mouth.


Kanter sitting out ill from practice because he ate too many cheeseburgers.

You guys aren't embarassed by his terrible defense
You aren't embarassed when he stupidly tweets opponents like Devin Booker who comes back roast him
What about when he can't practice because he tweeted himself eating 7 cheeseburgers??!

HOW ARE YOU NOT EMBARRASSED BY THIS FOOL??

HE is a laughingstock.

Starbury level pariah

Poor Enes is just traumatized by the Kam(s)ter’s unrelenting attacks.

I heard Recep is finally warming up to your work. “At least he’s trying”, he said.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 11, 2019, 06:00:03 PM
Well, alriiiiiight -

another nice doubleheader tonight

Mudiay followed by Lonzo.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 11, 2019, 07:06:27 PM
Knix with a rare ESPN game.

But on the back end, I'd rather catch the TWolves-Mavs game than Lakes-Jazz
Title: Re: From the You can't make this Up! dept.
Post by: lesterluv on January 11, 2019, 07:44:05 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 11, 2019, 03:41:32 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 11, 2019, 03:37:10 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 07, 2019, 04:00:25 PM
Enes troubles all stem from his open mouth.


Kanter sitting out ill from practice because he ate too many cheeseburgers.

You guys aren't embarassed by his terrible defense
You aren't embarassed when he stupidly tweets opponents like Devin Booker who comes back roast him
What about when he can't practice because he tweeted himself eating 7 cheeseburgers??!

HOW ARE YOU NOT EMBARRASSED BY THIS FOOL??

HE is a laughingstock.

Starbury level pariah

the funny thing, Kam, is he's not.

but you with your obsession have certainly made yourself the laughingstock of this forum
Title: Re: From the You can't make this Up! dept.
Post by: Kam on January 11, 2019, 08:03:08 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on January 11, 2019, 07:44:05 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 11, 2019, 03:41:32 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 11, 2019, 03:37:10 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 07, 2019, 04:00:25 PM
Enes troubles all stem from his open mouth.


Kanter sitting out ill from practice because he ate too many cheeseburgers.

You guys aren't embarassed by his terrible defense
You aren't embarassed when he stupidly tweets opponents like Devin Booker who comes back roast him
What about when he can't practice because he tweeted himself eating 7 cheeseburgers??!

HOW ARE YOU NOT EMBARRASSED BY THIS FOOL??

HE is a laughingstock.

Starbury level pariah

the funny thing, Kam, is he's not.

but you with your obsession have certainly made yourself the laughingstock of this forum

Yeah... Enes eats himself out of town but i'm the bad guy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 11, 2019, 08:16:40 PM
Pretty blah 1Q.
Mud with 2 TO's and a blown layup.
Tim off.

Vonleh looking pretty good.
Edit:  Besides Vonleh the only other points by a Knick starter in the 1Q was Tim putting back a blown Mud layup on a fats break (Vonleh stole the ball).

Nets game more interesting . . .
Title: The Kam(s)ter eating JUST ONE burger
Post by: carlos123 on January 11, 2019, 09:42:58 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 11, 2019, 08:03:08 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on January 11, 2019, 07:44:05 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 11, 2019, 03:41:32 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 11, 2019, 03:37:10 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 07, 2019, 04:00:25 PM
Enes troubles all stem from his open mouth.


Kanter sitting out ill from practice because he ate too many cheeseburgers.

You guys aren't embarassed by his terrible defense
You aren't embarassed when he stupidly tweets opponents like Devin Booker who comes back roast him
What about when he can't practice because he tweeted himself eating 7 cheeseburgers??!

HOW ARE YOU NOT EMBARRASSED BY THIS FOOL??

HE is a laughingstock.

Starbury level pariah

the funny thing, Kam, is he's not.

but you with your obsession have certainly made yourself the laughingstock of this forum

Yeah... Enes eats himself out of town but i'm the bad guy.

(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/H6e50OfjuNdbAnd8b13XnHw_PRE=/0x0:1280x853/1200x800/filters:focal(0x0:1280x853)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/35776242/CAM00033.0.jpg)

No, you're the good guy. Eating JUST ONE burger.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 11, 2019, 09:47:54 PM
3 guard, no Oubre Wizards beat Bucks.   The not so good Satoransky goes for trip doub.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 11, 2019, 09:52:20 PM
Mudiay sticks 2 3s in a row and Burke has something to say on the way back to the bench (sure wasnt "nice shot")

Sad.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on January 11, 2019, 09:56:13 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 11, 2019, 09:52:20 PM
Mudiay sticks 2 3s in a row and Burke has something to say on the way back to the bench (sure wasnt "nice shot")

Sad.

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/b7fa34cfa773259b246ae3ebb5ec1a91/tenor.gif?itemid=7870267)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 11, 2019, 10:05:42 PM
24, 9 and 6 for the not so good Russell.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 11, 2019, 10:08:11 PM
Saric 0-5 in 18 minutes
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 11, 2019, 10:16:46 PM
The not so good Kris Dunn - last eleven games, all starts:

16 points
7 assists
5 boards

8 of the 12 at 50% or above.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 11, 2019, 11:00:21 PM
Doesn’t look like we’ll be seeing Timmy for a few weeks. Dot should have that spot locked in before he’s ambulatory again.

Getting Mitch and Frank back will be helpful.

I don’t know what Mudiay is at this point. 2 assists to 3 turnovers hardly makes him a point guard.
Title: Re: From the You can't make this Up! dept.
Post by: elephant on January 11, 2019, 11:53:10 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 11, 2019, 08:03:08 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on January 11, 2019, 07:44:05 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 11, 2019, 03:41:32 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 11, 2019, 03:37:10 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 07, 2019, 04:00:25 PM
Enes troubles all stem from his open mouth.


Kanter sitting out ill from practice because he ate too many cheeseburgers.

You guys aren't embarassed by his terrible defense
You aren't embarassed when he stupidly tweets opponents like Devin Booker who comes back roast him
What about when he can't practice because he tweeted himself eating 7 cheeseburgers??!

HOW ARE YOU NOT EMBARRASSED BY THIS FOOL??

HE is a laughingstock.

Starbury level pariah

the funny thing, Kam, is he's not.

but you with your obsession have certainly made yourself the laughingstock of this forum

Yeah... Enes eats himself out of town but i'm the bad guy.

He's right, man.

You've never been a tedious motherfucker, but I have no idea what's going with you now. We get it. You don't like Kanter. Are you going to spend another 10,000 messages telling us that?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 12, 2019, 02:41:25 AM
Ball’s education continues.

Hopefully Kanter to Sacto will be concluded soon.
Title: Futed Again (and again ...)
Post by: bodiddley on January 12, 2019, 03:03:14 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 11, 2019, 09:47:54 PM
3 guard, no Oubre Wizards beat Bucks.   The not so good Satoransky goes for trip doub.

Try watching the game.
And being informed.

First off, Wiz didn't use 3 guards.
Saturn-Beal-JeffGreen-Ariza-Bryant.
Remember, they waived AuRevior. And Baker.  Chasson played 13 backup mins.  2 guards.

Secondly, the key is no Wall.  They play better as a team, with more guys involved, and a bigger role for Beal.  With no Wall. No Wall.
Get it into your head, better with No Wall ...

As for Uber, they replaced a promising pup with a solid vet at the same position.  Swapping Uber for Ariza is a win-now for Wiz.  Says nothing about Uber.

Thoid or is it 4th by now(?), Saturn had 6 TO's including one where he just chucked the ball into the stands.  Bucks also hunted him on D.  One sequence three straight possessions they went at him.  Brogdon scored over him in the paint, then Middleguy posted Sato up, followed by Bledsoe attacking him.  Saturn gives effort on D, but gets jittery feet and isn't terribly strong.  So while Saturn had a good game, you missed the negatives (TO's and weak D). 

The real heroes for WASH were Green and Ariza (combined 10-19 on 3's).  JeffGreen was having a rather JeffGreen game, driving coast-to-coast and losing the handle on the gather, clanking shots, driving baseline and getting blocked at the rim.  But then when Bucks got within two mid-3Q, Green splashed a pair of key 3's.  Then Ariza pumped in 2 more.  And Ariza and Beal forced Buck turnovers.  2nd half, Sato was the 4th best starter for Wiz.  Basically Wiz rode a strong 1Q (+14 Pts) and when MIL made a run, Green & Ariza took care of bizness.

Brogdon was thinking about his own trip-dub but then in the 4Q had two poor turnovers.  Well, good ideas poorly executed, easily stolen. 
Bo = big Brogdon fan.

The other game you were touting Double Dekker as an Uber replacement.  He had a nothing stint in this game, including missing both of his FT's.  A zero in 13 mins. 

As for Geo Hill, who you had as a significant pickup and tabbed as a starter next to Bleedingso, he was 0-4 FG with 2 turns and 0 points. 
I do think Hill can help them, but he's inconsistent.  And a bench guy behind Brog.

Story of the game was probably that Anti-Greek didn't play.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 12, 2019, 12:56:21 PM
Hawks with a road win v. Philly.
Embiid was out, but that's a bad loss for '6ers.
Good for us.

So here are some questions:

1) Should the Knix trade for Lonzo?
Some package of Mud +.  Or Franc +
Lakes probably need someone more steady than Mud, and he's not much good without the ball and that's gonna be in leBj's hands.  So not very likely to work.

2) Should the Knix trade for Fultz?
PHI is getting nada from him, he doesn't seem to want to be there anymore, PHI wants to make a run this year, his value might sink lower, etc.  Do they want Mudman?  Same problem as LAL, ball is going to be in Simmons hands.  They could use shooting.  Do they want Courtly?  Dotson?  Tim?  Geez, Fultz makes $8.5M this year and almost $10M next.  NY hardly seems the place to rehabilitate, but we've become known for reclamations under Fizz.

3) What would it take to get Simmons?
Simmons is super-talented, except for the most basic thing in basketball, actually shooting the ball.  And the fit isn't great with Embiid, also an interior scorer.  And they need to make sure Butler is happy.

Would they take: Mud + Tim + Vonleh?  It would give them a PG (of sorts), a 3-point shooter (streaky), and a hardworking handyman to fill in.  PHI might consider it if we threw in this year's 1st rounder, say just Top 4 protected.  And next year just Top 1 protected.
Knix would have KZ - Simmons - Knox to build around.
That could attract a legit FA.

4) Pa Bev?
What does LAC need?
We could part with one of Dot/Trier.
I'd love to have Pa Bev's pitbullishness next to Tim.
He'd up the intensity on these Knix, even if he is aging.
Too bad it looks like they are giving up on Teodosic.

5) John Wall.
He's set to make $38M next year escalating to $47M 3 years later.
Mopey, poor shooting, lax on D, injury concerns.  gets to the rim at will.  Probably available and not hard to match his current $19M --  Wall for Courtly and Mud -- but what a crazy risk he'd be.  It'd be some bold ish for NYK, but likely a disaster. 
Wall - Tim - Knox - Vonleh - KZ


These are all unlikely, but just trying to see how we could snag a quality starting PG.  Obviously, Fultz would be a gamble, Ball intriguing, Simmons a prize, Pa Bev a somewhat minor move, and the final option off-the-wall.

Usually I look for backup PG's who could take over, but I don't think there's much out there.  I like VanVleet, but he's short and his margin for error low.  This year a bit below last year.  Terrific backup.  I'll have to see who else it out there, but I don't think there's much.
Title: Phew!
Post by: carlos123 on January 12, 2019, 01:14:22 PM
So glad BoZ is not our GM!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 12, 2019, 01:28:36 PM
I'd like to have Simmons, Ball or PaBev.
I'd take a chance on Fultz if the price was reasonable.
Knix have a lot of minor assets.
Need to find a PG somewhere, sometime.
A good GM should be exploring options.

Wall is the scary option.
Best to stay away.

Bo's Parameters:
1) The only untradeable Knick is KZ.
2) I'd rather not trade Knox or this year's 1st round pick -- but would part with one of those for a high level talent.
3) I'd like to keep Vonleh, but don't want to overpay to do so.
4) Everyone else is available.

Anyone disagree with those?

5) I'd like to keep one of Dot/Trier and see Mitch and Franc develop -- but any or all of them could be tossed in deals.  Problem is their value isn't that high yet.  So they are probably worth more to us than to other teams.
6) I'd like to trade Courtly, Mud, Tim, Lance, Kant.  For value and/or cap space.

Any quarrels?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 12, 2019, 02:47:20 PM
Interesting

Not sure I would be moving that first rounder at this point.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on January 12, 2019, 03:03:26 PM
We couldn't get Simmons even if we included our pick, unless it was after the lottery and we had the top pick. So you can safely remove that from consideration. We just don't have the blue chip player to send back which they would demand.

Fultz is interesting on one level for the Knicks given Fiz having some success with reclamation projects. But it's a bit odd to invest in Mudiay and then toss him for a more expensive, higher upside, more troubled version who is similar in many ways. It wouldn't send a great message to the other young players.

For cap reasons, they'd have to include Wilson Chandler, which means they'd need Vonleh back (they've supposedly already inquired about Vonleh). So the question is, re-wording your trade offer, would you do this:

THJr + Vonleh + Mudiay for Fultz + Wilson Chandler and, say, a top-18 protected 1st and a future second?

We don't need Chandler but he still has value, so I'd like to reroute him to Sacto along with Courtly and the Philly second rounder for Z-Bo, McLemore, and either Koufos or Shump.


In addition to Simmons not being attainable, Wall should be avoided at costs given the contract and injury risk, the Clippers aren't a trading partner given we are free agency rivals with them and Beverley is not on the right timeline for the Knicks. We should be targeting 26 and under players only in trades.
Title: Re: From the You can't make this Up! dept.
Post by: Kam on January 12, 2019, 04:09:31 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 11, 2019, 11:53:10 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 11, 2019, 08:03:08 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on January 11, 2019, 07:44:05 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 11, 2019, 03:41:32 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 11, 2019, 03:37:10 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 07, 2019, 04:00:25 PM
Enes troubles all stem from his open mouth.


Kanter sitting out ill from practice because he ate too many cheeseburgers.

You guys aren't embarassed by his terrible defense
You aren't embarassed when he stupidly tweets opponents like Devin Booker who comes back roast him
What about when he can't practice because he tweeted himself eating 7 cheeseburgers??!

HOW ARE YOU NOT EMBARRASSED BY THIS FOOL??

HE is a laughingstock.

Starbury level pariah

the funny thing, Kam, is he's not.

but you with your obsession have certainly made yourself the laughingstock of this forum

Yeah... Enes eats himself out of town but i'm the bad guy.

He's right, man.

You've never been a tedious motherfucker, but I have no idea what's going with you now. We get it. You don't like Kanter. Are you going to spend another 10,000 messages telling us that?

When Enes misses games because he ate 7 cheeseburgers i expect someone on this forum to mention it.

You guys let me do it.

If it were Jerome James i'm sure there's be a whole chorus of voices joining mine.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 12, 2019, 05:58:22 PM
Quote
THJr + Vonleh + Mudiay for Fultz + Wilson Chandler and, say, a top-18 protected 1st and a future second?

At that point, you'd have to know that Fultz is fixed and ready to go.
Lotta risk otherwise, giving away 3 assets for a question mark (and possibly a zero).  No can do.

Wil is kind of broken down.
He fouls a good deal because he can't really do what he tries to on defense anymore.

Vonleh & Mud for Fultz seems more like it.
And hard to do without knowing more on where Fultz is at. 
It's conceivable the guy just pockets his full rook contract and leaves the NBA quietly.  Or maybe the injury is unfixable.  Or gets fixed.  Just an enigma for now.

I'd probably stick with Mud & Vonleh unless we thought Von was going to be hard to re-sign.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 12, 2019, 06:40:44 PM
Wil, Mud, and Noah are all on expiring deals.

Essentially you are looking at Fultz v Hardaway. I’d take the chance on Fultz at ten million less knowing you can cut bait on him a year early or keep him for just over mid level money if he seems to be pulling his weight. We’d have cash to throw a sheet at Vonleh in free agency where Philly would have no special rights.

I think we’re seeing peak Hardaway and there is no clear evidence he’s a top 5 guy on a winning team. Fultz may still have that potential if he can recover and break through what has caught up with him so far in his career.

If we’re also getting picks back sign me up all the more.

Kufos or Zach for Kanter. Kanter and Burke for Kufos and Zach.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 12, 2019, 07:00:59 PM
No indication Ball or Fultz will be dealt
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 12, 2019, 09:08:50 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 12, 2019, 01:28:36 PM
I'd like to have Simmons, Ball or PaBev.
I'd take a chance on Fultz if the price was reasonable.
Knix have a lot of minor assets.
Need to find a PG somewhere, sometime.
A good GM should be exploring options.

Wall is the scary option.
Best to stay away.

Bo's Parameters:
1) The only untradeable Knick is KZ.
2) I'd rather not trade Knox or this year's 1st round pick -- but would part with one of those for a high level talent.
3) I'd like to keep Vonleh, but don't want to overpay to do so.
4) Everyone else is available.

Anyone disagree with those?

5) I'd like to keep one of Dot/Trier and see Mitch and Franc develop -- but any or all of them could be tossed in deals.  Problem is their value isn't that high yet.  So they are probably worth more to us than to other teams.
6) I'd like to trade Courtly, Mud, Tim, Lance, Kant.  For value and/or cap space.

Any quarrels?



Heh
Title: GM BoZ
Post by: carlos123 on January 12, 2019, 10:06:14 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 12, 2019, 01:28:36 PM
I'd like to have Simmons, Ball or PaBev.
I'd take a chance on Fultz if the price was reasonable.
Knix have a lot of minor assets.
Need to find a PG somewhere, sometime.
A good GM should be exploring options.

Wall is the scary option.
Best to stay away.

BoZ's Parameters:
1) The only untradeable Knick is KZ.
2) I'd rather not trade Knox or this year's 1st round pick -- but would part with one of those for a high level talent.
3) I'd like to keep Vonleh, but don't want to overpay to do so.
4) Everyone else is available.

Anyone disagree with those?

5) I'd like to keep one of Dot/Trier and see Mitch and Franc develop -- but any or all of them could be tossed in deals.  Problem is their value isn't that high yet.  So they are probably worth more to us than to other teams.
6) I'd like to trade Courtly, Mud, Tim, Lance, Kant.  For value and/or cap space.

Any quarrels?

BoZ's Parameters

1) Guess you mean KP. Lets see if he's the same player he was before we decide he's untradeable.
2) You were trading this year 1st round pick (top 4 protected, ain't that something) AND next year 1st round pick (TOP 1 = UNPROTECTED). How about adding another 1st round pick, just for the heck of it!

Quote
Would they take: Mud + Tim + Vonleh?  It would give them a PG (of sorts), a 3-point shooter (streaky), and a hardworking handyman to fill in.  PHI might consider it if we threw in this year's 1st rounder, say just Top 4 protected.  And next year just Top 1 protected.

Oh, and you're getting rid of our vets, but would like PaBev. Nice consistency.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 13, 2019, 12:27:11 AM
You Miss Understand.

Just one pick with a Top 4 protection this year, and just Top 1 protected next year (which is not quite unprotected).  Not two different picks.  Two different protection levels, if it doesn't transfer this year.

Our vets -- Courtly, Lance, Kant -- are redundant/unnecessary.
It is good to have some vets on a young team.
Pa Bev = a PG, a position of need.
Likely he'd start for 2 or 3 years as a stopgap.
Or if someone beats him out, he'd be a top backup PG.
If we're committed to Tim then a defensive presence at PG is a good idea.  Could just stick with the franc development plan.

Courtly right now is our 4th SG.
He's a very obvious trade candidate.
Last year, Knix were trying to get a 1st round pick for him.
This year, it's probably best to get a 2nd round pick, or a role player, just to free up the $12M cap space.  And keep things clear for Trier/Datsun.

Lance is all right.  But Vonleh is younger and better.  And Knox needs reps. 

I'm fine with Kant sticking through the season, as I expect.  But he's Disgruntled Goatish.  Mitch and Chop Suey aren't really ready.  KZ not back yet, and might just not play more than 15 games to 20 (if any).

Really, I'd keep Kant, doubt Lance will attract any useful asset, and so would be working hard to move Courtly for anything (except a longer contract).  Not at all against vets.  Not in favor of moving all our vets.  Pa Bev would be a welcome addition.

I wouldn't do Mud & Vonleh for Fultz.  Mud might be better than Fultz.  Mud & a 2nd rounder is all I'd go.  I'd like to Buy Low on Fultz.

If Bo had been GM this conversation wouldn't be necessary, as we'd already have Rubio.  He was available.  And Phil failed to pull the trigger.  I heard there was mutiny in his shorts that he had to attend to which distracted him until the deadline passed.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on January 13, 2019, 01:25:25 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 13, 2019, 12:27:11 AM
You Miss Understand.

Just one pick with a Top 4 protection this year, and just Top 1 protected next year (which is not quite unprotected).  Not two different picks.  Two different protection levels, if it doesn't transfer this year.

I don’t think I miss understood. Maybe you didn’t mean what you actually wrote.

Oh, and top 1 protection? Gimme a break! Might as well leave the pick unprotected.
Title: Nitpicking
Post by: bodiddley on January 13, 2019, 07:58:05 AM
So leave it unprotected the 2nd year.
If we have KZ and Simmons it wouldn't matter.

All you'd really want to do is protect it in this our tank year so you don't lose out on a Top 3 or 4 talent.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 13, 2019, 10:33:34 AM
We should not take on any PG that is offensively challenged - who cannot get shots for himself AND his teammates.  (You can decide where Beverly falls with this parameter)

Dealing Mudiay now would be asinine.

Allow him to show ANY and ALL glimmers of what he may be if we re-sign him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 13, 2019, 12:09:46 PM
Bulls kids played well in Utah but Jazz caught them in 4th.

Markaanen back.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 13, 2019, 12:11:41 PM
Re:  Celts

Brown and Rozier getting just a combined 41 minutes is criminal.  Brad has to stop it with the Gordie love.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 13, 2019, 01:08:48 PM
ORL sure tried to choke away the game in the last 2 mins.
Lotta blunders.

ORL often plays Big: Vucevic, Gordon, Isaac at the same time

Knick game starting now -- MLK matinee.
Title: Re: Nitpicking
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 13, 2019, 01:20:06 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 13, 2019, 07:58:05 AM
So leave it unprotected the 2nd year.
If we have KZ and Simmons it wouldn't matter.

All you'd really want to do is protect it in this our tank year so you don't lose out on a Top 3 or 4 talent.

Protect it top 10.......

If Knox is so so and Frank a NADA then we need that one extra young guy who pay POP.  Hachimura in that grouping.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on January 13, 2019, 01:25:50 PM
OK absolute tank mode, all the biggies not playing and Lancela and Datsun starting. Oboy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 13, 2019, 01:31:11 PM
Dotson earned it.

Lance?  I guess the plan all along was to get him healthy and use his defense and leadership

Fiz is trying to win.

This should scare you, if just a little :)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 13, 2019, 01:33:03 PM
I see Isiah Hicks is up

Hadnt heard.

Open mind on him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 13, 2019, 01:48:15 PM
Franc & Knox are very young.
Both show promise.
Knox has a pretty high ceiling.
Both still learning.

Franc playing well early this game.
Nice 1st half for Franc.
Knox too.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 13, 2019, 02:29:17 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 13, 2019, 10:33:34 AM

Dealing Mudiay now would be asinine.

Allow him to show ANY and ALL glimmers of what he may be if we re-sign him.

What if he doesn't sign here? 
Then we missed an opportunity to add to the cupboard.

We need to amass assets for a future deal.
Title: FUCK EMBIID
Post by: Kam on January 13, 2019, 02:54:51 PM
Poor sport.

He didn't even get fouled.... then takes his anger out on Kornet.... could've ended his career.
Title: Use the force
Post by: Kam on January 13, 2019, 03:18:21 PM
Kornet is a +20 this game

I will leave that which is unsaid... unsaid ; )
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 13, 2019, 03:23:13 PM
Got all the way up to a +26 when Mudiay hit that trey to bring it to a one possession game.

Only other Knicks:  Knox and Frank and Mario are positive +/- this game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 13, 2019, 03:49:12 PM
The Knicks just played the perfect argument for moving on from Kanter.

I think Knox might have a future in this league.

I’m ready to get Mitch back.

The time split between Mudiay and Frank should be maintained.

It was a tanksquisite performance.

Good time for the bulls to get healthy and run off some wins.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 13, 2019, 04:36:32 PM
Technical note: the Knicks perform better when Lance Thomas is NOT replacing Luke Kornet in the lineup.
Title: Technical note #2
Post by: carlos123 on January 13, 2019, 05:09:34 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 13, 2019, 04:36:32 PM
Technical note: the Knicks perform better when Lance Thomas is NOT replacing Luke Kornet in the lineup.

Rebounds:
Philly 56
NYK   34
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 13, 2019, 08:26:33 PM
Assists

Frank 6
Luke  5
Dot  5
EM  4
Mario  2
Lance 1
Noah  1
KNOX   Gooseegg
Title: Kam(s)ter #2
Post by: carlos123 on January 13, 2019, 08:53:09 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 13, 2019, 03:49:12 PM
The Knicks just played the perfect argument for moving on from Kanter.


As the 22 rebound differential clearly proves.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 13, 2019, 10:14:57 PM
I like rebounders who defend.
Title: PMURT
Post by: carlos123 on January 13, 2019, 11:07:53 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 13, 2019, 10:14:57 PM
I like rebounders who defend.

And I like presidents who don’t betray their country. Why o why can’t we have it all? But if Enes were there for some of Lance’s minutes maybe the difference in rebounds woulda been less embarrassing.

By the way, the rest of your post was spot on, especially the part about the tanksquisite performance. Bravo!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 13, 2019, 11:16:54 PM
Guess I should have caught the 2nd half ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 14, 2019, 12:09:24 AM
Wiz-Raps DubOT game looks fun.
Bela with a Hardenesque 40 point triple-double.
Ariza one board form a tandem triple-double.
Sato followed up his trip-dub with 2-13 FG and 5 fouls (-16).

Wiz playing much better without Wall.
Reminiscent of last year.
Title: Re: Kam(s)ter #2
Post by: Kam on January 14, 2019, 12:59:49 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 13, 2019, 08:53:09 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 13, 2019, 03:49:12 PM
The Knicks just played the perfect argument for moving on from Kanter.


As the 22 rebound differential clearly proves.


We lost by  three points.

Kornet scored 23

Quote
if Enes were there for some of Lance’s minutes maybe the difference in rebounds woulda been less embarrassing.

Who gives a spit about rebounds.

Points matter!  Not useless secondary stats.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 14, 2019, 01:01:58 AM
Would've been fun to see Kant go up against Embiid.
Because kant wouldn't be putting up with the shit Kornet took.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 14, 2019, 01:07:13 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 14, 2019, 01:01:58 AM
Would've been fun to see Kant go up against Embiid.
Because kant wouldn't be putting up with the shit Kornet took.

No.  All i can see coming from that is Embiid destroying Kanter on and off the court.

What "would've been fun" is winning with a healthy KP and Kornet bombing away.

Philly at full strength as we were missing our supposed TOP 2 guys  (Kanter, Junior) and we almost took it to OT.
Title: Re: Kam(s)ter #2
Post by: bodiddley on January 14, 2019, 01:27:40 AM
Quote from: Kam on January 14, 2019, 12:59:49 AM
Who gives a spit about rebounds.

A number of times we stopped Embiid, only to have Simmons grab the O-board.  2nd chance points killed the Knix.  Happened down 5 with 1:23 left and PHI wound up with a Reddick 3 to go up by 8.  Secure that board and Knix down 5 at 1:23 with the ball.  Instead down 8 with 1:08 because they couldn't secure a rebound.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 14, 2019, 01:38:37 AM
I like how Knox goes for 31 & 7 and kiid mocks him for no assists.
Might be so-so in kid's world, but I think Knox has all-star potential.

Kornet played well.  lotta grit.
Mitch should be back soon.
Apparently it's a groin now after his ankle healed ...
Title: Re: Kam(s)ter #2
Post by: Kam on January 14, 2019, 01:49:46 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 14, 2019, 01:27:40 AM
Quote from: Kam on January 14, 2019, 12:59:49 AM
Who gives a spit about rebounds.

A number of times we stopped Embiid, only to have Simmons grab the O-board.  2nd chance points killed the Knix.  Happened down 5 with 1:23 left and PHI wound up with a Reddick 3 to go up by 8.  Secure that board and Knix down 5 at 1:23 with the ball.  Instead down 8 with 1:08 because they couldn't secure a rebound.

Well... Simmons is a freak of nature at the PG position.    I don't think Kanter would be responsible for boxing him out.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on January 14, 2019, 06:25:33 AM
Lancela almost got a 5-3, his lifetime career average. You start him and you are looking for the tank which is OK. Mud, KK, and Luke looking good. Burke and Trier regressed a bit. Enes is in rebel FA mode? Franky, I  dont know.
Title: New Knick: Kadeem Allen
Post by: Kam on January 14, 2019, 10:37:58 AM
https://nypost.com/2019/01/14/knicks-signing-kadeem-allen-to-2-way-deal-as-another-guard-hope/ (https://nypost.com/2019/01/14/knicks-signing-kadeem-allen-to-2-way-deal-as-another-guard-hope/)

6'3" 215lb defensive-oriented guard

Middle name: Frank
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 14, 2019, 11:02:05 AM
Having the youngsters Knox go for 30+ in 44 minutes  and Kornet go for 20+ in 32 minutes

Let's us have perspective over the current ICONS  Hardaway and Kanter

Might not be a coincidence that we had 24 assists!  Two black holes taken out of the lineup

Other than Mario +2, and Frank's regularly  scheduled comeback game (+10) before his aggression wears off again,   in a game we were down 20 something.. Kornet was a +25 and Knox a +11.

I think it's hard to be a +11 and play 44 minutes and still lose by 3 because your teammates gave 14 points back in the 4 minutes you weren't on the court.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 14, 2019, 11:04:18 AM
Frank Knox and Kornet all had great/career games yesterday.


They should be kept and played alongside Kristaps.


Everyone else is an extra.
Title: Selective reading
Post by: carlos123 on January 14, 2019, 11:21:16 AM
Kam(s)ter ignoring the part where I proposed that Enes woulda made a difference with Lance’s, NOT KORNET ‘s, minutes.
Title: Re: Selective reading
Post by: Kam on January 14, 2019, 12:52:21 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 14, 2019, 11:21:16 AM
Kam(s)ter ignoring the part where I proposed that Enes woulda made a difference with Lance’s, NOT KORNET ‘s, minutes.


Oh.  I guess i did.   Sorry.   As long as  you budget time for Luke.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 14, 2019, 01:16:45 PM
Re :  Knox

I posted to Twitter that scoring 30 as a rook proves the Knox kid can be an NBA scorer.  But let’s now see if he can be more than an average player
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 14, 2019, 01:20:03 PM
I hear Kev is good friends with Oubre

Heh

(multiple assists in just 7 games)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 14, 2019, 02:15:16 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 14, 2019, 11:02:05 AM
Having the youngsters Knox go for 30+ in 44 minutes  and Kornet go for 20+ in 32 minutes

Let's us have perspective over the current ICONS  Hardaway and Kanter

Might not be a coincidence that we had 24 assists!  Two black holes taken out of the lineup

Other than Mario +2, and Frank's regularly  scheduled comeback game (+10) before his aggression wears off again,   in a game we were down 20 something.. Kornet was a +25 and Knox a +11.

I think it's hard to be a +11 and play 44 minutes and still lose by 3 because your teammates gave 14 points back in the 4 minutes you weren't on the court.

Yeah, THJ has just 6 assists his last 6 games

Shooting 40/30/90.  Really scuffling, even the points down - at 14.4

This following a better stretch of 15 games at 36% from deep and 18.7 overall.

How much is not being healthy?   Dont know - but staying healthy is a necessary skill as well, so......

(hear that, Mitch?)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 14, 2019, 02:31:39 PM
Staying healthy as a 20 year old rookie big man and staying healthy as a wing in his mid prime are two different cans of worms, but yeah, hopefully Mitch is paying attention to his health. No Kanter cheat days, Mitch. If you get the hunger, head to the Wine and Dine for defensive tips and grilled fish. You can even practice free throws while waiting for your order.

Is it a surprise we went for Allen over Jenkins with the two-way?

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 14, 2019, 02:43:24 PM
Doesnt matter

Allen is a (Celtic) stiff but Jenkins has no where to play on this team
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 14, 2019, 02:52:26 PM
Knox is just 19 and learning when to shoot.
(as is Trier, Chop Suey, etc).
I'm much more interested/concerned with Knox's defense than passing. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 14, 2019, 04:14:18 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 14, 2019, 01:16:45 PM
scoring 30 as a rook proves the Knox kid can be an NBA scorer.  But let’s now see if he can be more than an average player

  and now?

Knox, 19,  became the sixth youngest player in NBA history to score at least 30 points.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 14, 2019, 04:25:23 PM
KP didn’t crack the 30-point barrier until he was 21 years old
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 14, 2019, 04:57:46 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 14, 2019, 02:52:26 PM
Knox is just 19 and learning when to shoot.


What? Are u watching?  He shoots when he touches it.  Unless defended strongly.  Then he would kick to someone.  Nothing wrong with this.  And court awareness can be improved.  But let’s call it what it is.  Ball stops.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on January 14, 2019, 06:12:09 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 14, 2019, 11:02:05 AM
Having the youngsters Knox go for 30+ in 44 minutes  and Kornet go for 20+ in 32 minutes

Let's us have perspective over the current ICONS  Hardaway and Kanter

Might not be a coincidence that we had 24 assists!  Two black holes taken out of the lineup

Other than Mario +2, and Frank's regularly  scheduled comeback game (+10) before his aggression wears off again,   in a game we were down 20 something.. Kornet was a +25 and Knox a +11.

I think it's hard to be a +11 and play 44 minutes and still lose by 3 because your teammates gave 14 points back in the 4 minutes you weren't on the court.

We do have quite a few black holes I must say.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 14, 2019, 07:18:03 PM
Program note

Zion on ESPN
Title: Stars Aligning
Post by: Kam on January 14, 2019, 08:08:23 PM
Keep your fingers and toes crossed that Knox continues to prove he got enough game to be Batman to KP's Robin.  Or Vice-a-versa.

You don't need to win the lottery to strike gold. 

If we've managed to nab two All-Star calibre guys who are still under 25 we will have our best decade to look forward to since the 90s.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 14, 2019, 09:28:29 PM
Two all-stars or near all-stars is a good start. Both attack and spread the floor and have the potential to demand heavy doubling. Unfortunately, we won’t know for sure what they neeed between or around them beyond the obvious; guards who defend like devils and skillfully and purposefully distribute the ball.
Title: Howboutdat
Post by: Kam on January 14, 2019, 09:46:40 PM
Syracuse comes back from disastrous start and beats Duke!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 14, 2019, 09:50:15 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 14, 2019, 09:28:29 PM
Two all-stars or near all-stars is a good start. Both attack and spread the floor and have the potential to demand heavy doubling. Unfortunately, we won’t know for sure what they neeed between or around them beyond the obvious; guards who defend like devils and skillfully and purposefully distribute the ball.

Since Knox and KP should combine to form 2/3 of the frontcourt, the other guy would need to be a Draymond type.  A guy who won't need to have plays run for him, but who can really defend and do the dirty work, guard the other teams best big.  Doesn't need to be a big assist guy but that would obviously be great.

Is that guy Noah Vonleh?  Maybe.  But if he is, i think we need another one of those.

Not to replace Luke.  Luke is like a taller Steve Novak.  Keep Luke as 2nd/3rd string.

I would trade all our guards for a franchise PG.
Title: Noah Vonleh
Post by: Kam on January 14, 2019, 10:27:24 PM
We are in a really interesting situation with NV.

He has drawn interest from teams and will look to score a payday this summer.

No guarantee he stays here unless we make a godfather offer.

Meanwhile Philly is looking for another big man who can shoot and is willing to offer their #1.

What is the correct course of action?

* Sign him to a generous offer that uses some of the $29mil cap space
* Allow him to walk to another team and get nothing in return
* Trade him now for a #1 while selling high
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 14, 2019, 10:53:09 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 14, 2019, 04:57:46 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 14, 2019, 02:52:26 PM
Knox is just 19 and learning when to shoot.

What? Are u watching?  He shoots when he touches it.

Learning when to shoot implies also learning when not to.
Which is Trier's issue as well.

I should have added when and how to shoot.
Knox sometimes makes himself smaller instead of unfurling his length.
And Knox's little flips in the paint can be useful at times but frequently get blocked.

How and when to shoot (and when and how not to for those who need things very explicit).
Title: Trade Proposal
Post by: Kam on January 15, 2019, 01:09:36 AM
Mudiay+HardawayJR+CLee  for Mike Conley

PRO:  Upgrade the PG position for us. 
PRO:  Played under Fizz before.  Will help install Fizz concepts and accelerate development of the young'uns (good veteran role model)
PRO:  We preserve all our cap space this summer since the salaries offset
PRO:  Could help attract a Free Agent like Durant or Leonard
PRO:  Can avoid a long term offer to Mudiay and get a 2.5 year mentor for Frank Ntilikina

CON:  Conley makes 34.5 mil in 20-21 ($16mil more than we would be paying Timmy if we kept him)
CON:  Memphis would have other offers if they decide to blow things up so we may need to throw other asset(s) like a future #1
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 15, 2019, 01:26:44 AM
Maybe it's this good Sensimilla but ... <toke>  cough cough... i think a Conley - KP - Knox trio could provided a very attractive landing spot for a KD.


And if he don't come we still have a respectable playoff worthy outfit.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 15, 2019, 01:30:44 AM
I think O’quinn Only signed a one year deal. I like him still between KP and Knox. Vonleh is just fine, quicker and younger. For more offensive pop with a bigger price tag, Tobias Harris is unrestricted this summer. Alex Poythress is a lesser option. Marcus Morris and Theis are possible, though Celts have bird rights. DMC, RHJ, and Faried. Portis as RFA. Thad Young is a bit older, but with the right skill set. Wil Chandler, Muscala, and Amir Johnson are worth consideration. Markieff will be free. Maxi Klebler from Dallas. Trey Lyles RFA. Rudy Gay is an old timer who still produces. Aminu and Layman will be free from Portland. Richaun Holmes. Nicola Mirotic and Cheik Diallo from NO. Taj and Tolliver. Green from Memphis. Beasley back. Marquis Chriss is iffy but young. Jerebko, Looney, and Bell need new deals as well.

Many of these guys would not be looking to join the Knicks all things being equal, but a team wanting you more can mean a lot.

I like all these guys for next year better than Lance and Enes, who drag on the floor in different ways.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 15, 2019, 02:42:05 AM
Lots of options.  If we can become known for developing young players that would be quite a feather in the cap.

Some of those we develop we must move.

Might have to move Vonleh and find the next Vonleh.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 15, 2019, 02:42:50 AM
No Knick in the Top 50 Dunkers this season.

Lack  of easy baskets.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 15, 2019, 03:35:16 AM
Quote from: Kam on January 15, 2019, 02:42:05 AM
Lots of options.  If we can become known for developing young players that would be quite a feather in the cap.

Some of those we develop we must move.

Might have to move Vonleh and find the next Vonleh.

Keep Vonleh and find the other part of the bruising PF tandem assuming Zion doesn’t fall in our laps. Even if we sign a pricy forward I think Vonleh might still come back for the MLE.

Tobias, Thad, Taj, Looney, Aminu, Layman, O’Quinn, Theis, Muscala, would all be good. Only the first 5 could command Big time contracts based on where they are at.

KP Mitch Kornet
Looney Vonleh
Knox and maybe Mario who I’m warming up to as he calms down, dials in, and finds a role

That looks like a formidable front court, and leaves money for a young PG who thinks he can beat out our incumbents or even Mudiay if he further establishes himself this year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 15, 2019, 07:15:54 AM
Our five best 3 point shooters so far are Vonleh, Kornet, Knox, Dotson, and Trier. With Dot shouldering more set the play and floor balance responsibility, this may be a viable unit, especially if Iso Zo can learn to save his isos for the later half of the clock. You have three smart play makers and two scorers, which we’ve seen can work.

This may have to be tabled for a while since Trier seems to still be limited and not all the way back with his burst or confidence. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on January 15, 2019, 08:50:31 AM
Quote from: Kam on January 15, 2019, 01:26:44 AM
Maybe it's this good Sensimilla but ... <toke>  cough cough... i think a Conley - KP - Knox trio could provided a very attractive landing spot for a KD.


And if he don't come we still have a respectable playoff worthy outfit.

Also add a top draft pick this year to that mix.

Here's the catch - I don't believe we'll have enough cap space for Durant if we do that deal, even if we include Trier. We're likely going to be short now, especially if we draft high, and we need to shed one of Courtly or Timmy.

But you could trade that package for Conley and sign, say, Khris Middleton, for example.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on January 15, 2019, 08:53:53 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 15, 2019, 03:35:16 AM
Quote from: Kam on January 15, 2019, 02:42:05 AM
Lots of options.  If we can become known for developing young players that would be quite a feather in the cap.

Some of those we develop we must move.

Might have to move Vonleh and find the next Vonleh.

Keep Vonleh and find the other part of the bruising PF tandem assuming Zion doesn’t fall in our laps. Even if we sign a pricy forward I think Vonleh might still come back for the MLE.


As we're under the cap, we can only sign Vonleh to the room exception (about half the MLE). I have to think someone else will offer more. Otherwise, we have to dip into our cap space.

So, unless Timmy or Courtly are moved, it's a choice between Vonleh and signing a max free agent. Can't really do both.

I love Vonleh. So I'd like to move Timmy or Courtly to make room for him as a third big. But if someone's offering a first round pick, you have to consider it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 15, 2019, 09:01:48 AM
If ...unlike OQuinn....Vonleh will wait...we can sign him after we miss on all the big free agents
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 15, 2019, 01:51:24 PM
The Conley idea is interesting.
But Memphis would have to be fairly high on Muddy.
Would they see him as long-term starting PG?

Quote
The 21-year-old Dennis Smith Jr was the No. 9 overall pick in the 2017 NBA Draft, but the Mavericks have apparently already decided that he doesn't fit (https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-trade-rumors-mavericks-looking-to-trade-dennis-smith-jr-with-magic-suns-showing-interest-report-says/) with the direction the team is headed. Primarily, there are concerns about whether Smith can be a long-term fit next to the Mavericks' face of the future, Luka Doncic.

DAL reportedly giving up on Smith Jr already.
Would anyone swap Franc for Smith Jr.?
(I'm not advocating such, just taking a survey).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 15, 2019, 03:52:28 PM
Keep Franc.

Deal the 2020 #1 lightly protected
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 15, 2019, 05:06:05 PM
https://twitter.com/thejimmerwatch/status/1085023262755774464 (https://twitter.com/thejimmerwatch/status/1085023262755774464)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 15, 2019, 05:56:25 PM
Frank is 11th on the Knicks  in 3 point percentage (.297)

Guess where he ranks on 2 pointers.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 15, 2019, 06:02:20 PM
No to D Smith.......

https://twitter.com/NewEraKnicks/status/1085310038116364288 (https://twitter.com/NewEraKnicks/status/1085310038116364288)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 15, 2019, 07:32:06 PM
No to D Smith. Frank will come along. 

Kanter and Burke for Kufos, Randolph and a 2nd Rounder.

Kornet Robinson Kufos
Vonleh Randolph KP
Knox Mario Thomas
Hardaway Dotson Lee
Mudiay Frank Trier

Vonleh and Kornet need help while KP is mending and Mitch is raw. Zach and Kufos give you that in capable but non spectacular ways.

You have one vet in every role except PG.

No one on the roster would be shorter than 6’4”.

I don’t think it would move the needle, but it would support the development of our youth and give us a more fun team to watch. The embryonic pg play will keep us squarely in the tank, or some one will take several more steps and that will wind up cheaper than Conley or Kemba. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 15, 2019, 08:52:16 PM
Quick

Top 5 Hawks of all time
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on January 15, 2019, 08:57:53 PM
Wilkins, Pettit, Hudson, Joe Johnson, Wilkens

Maravich wasn't a great Hawk.
Title: The tale of the two Chicos
Post by: carlos123 on January 15, 2019, 09:01:41 PM
There's a Hero Member kiidcarter8 with 1,638 posts at this time.

There's also a Jr. Member kidcarter8, currently at 69 posts.

Both of them are fans of Jimmer Fredette, the Great White Hope of China.

Are they the same person, or does the double-i vs. single-i make them two similar but different individuals?
Title: WHERE'S CHIP?
Post by: carlos123 on January 15, 2019, 09:10:48 PM
I mean, other than fighting bears.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/a0h5IVCI2b6nPZDQNMyhDYE8QSof4ZNgCNWSLPwAWP8nIU3OQNKkLyOVw7dYBPm38uUyXey8xaGIKaYljz7HJ90YeKMaSSpSFXX74Z_jI4sEPoG2JVzM8cWwDn898tiHokorALb_XGhl6XmgPRn99WrfSDhBvs0F_wuWIsSGwLDlSGUk963mGl5NMIqiLRDYNHf9XiEcLJmUAx_k78G2u0p05Je_IaRfALZ7ehqT9EuVHfbHMJigdwHtB2qHODA-wrYged9dYmMsicWzNTGRCJTmQaZ81bYiuFUQ1GuMf-RVlBdyohTaBX5ZPks67w-1vXTo3h39fctXs-RYHkxmqhduZEu0eiIpewMRrp9PUV2r_TcdywCtOjURXCQk4M-NCdZRB8BzgTD7pHYfE-8_j0ZNr3tBSTw6GD7wBWHUiOFzPQBrBW66SG3Gzv5TmgUfRl6ptwrtCNJhclhCTSzNRIpaMLt1Jd5fsGvh_e7VPmDIlWehvQUFgwrm5o0LDWJpV3TvhMEBKDCLUoQ88P3CgIi9Dwnq17ESFxlgKnDYP9i23LUEgRfFzll2yrtGxA2j7uoBEtV-JiBOoybKu8zWYX3Q4iU8vJIqcay-6KMzG9myz6jLRLJ8CzMlC0_TrbPqyPlChojln6QhRWrePwYavXXX=w740-h610-no)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 15, 2019, 09:31:06 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on January 15, 2019, 08:57:53 PM
Wilkins, Pettit, Hudson, Joe Johnson, Wilkens

Maravich wasn't a great Hawk.

Fans have it Horford Johnson Maravich Wilkins and Trae Young.....ahem..I mean Mutombo
Title: Re: WHERE'S CHIP?
Post by: chipstern on January 15, 2019, 11:53:55 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 15, 2019, 09:10:48 PM
I mean, other than fighting bears.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/b4/Goodbye_album.PNG/220px-Goodbye_album.PNG)

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/InsecureSandyArmedcrab-size_restricted.gif)
Title: Chip!
Post by: Kam on January 16, 2019, 12:51:14 AM
Chip sighting
Title: Tank Alert
Post by: Kam on January 16, 2019, 12:55:23 AM
Atlanta Wins!


Team  W-L     GB

WAS  18-26    7.5
ATL    14-30    3.5
PHX    11-34   
---
NYK  10-33       --
CHI   10-34       --
CLE     9-35       --
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 16, 2019, 01:41:33 AM
There was a time where Morey seemed to make tons of smart moves.
But lots of questionable decisions the past year or two.

Letting Ariza go.
Adding Melo.
A max contract for an aging, injury-prone Chris Paul.

Danuel House Jr. has been playing terrific, starting the past dozen games, as a 2-way GLeaguer.  His NBA time was up, so Morey cheaped out offering him first a 3 year non-guaranteed minimum deal, then making it guaranteed.  So House balked, Is back in GLeague and will be an RFA.  House was playing well, making some key plays on both ends.  Maybe they'll pay up, but it's really become the harden all-alone show.

I was thinking about how it would suck to HOU's 3rd or 4th option because Harden dominates, but so does Paul.  But smartly they've added specialists like Caplea, a rim-running dunker, and corner-3 PJ Tuck.  Gordon gets to spot up for 3's and be more creative when the stars sit.  But HOU really misses Montrezl, Ariza, Luc.  Hard working defenders, and energy role players.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 16, 2019, 08:51:30 AM
Austin Rivers says hello.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 16, 2019, 11:15:28 AM
AuRevoir has been a help since Gordon and CP3 are gimpy.
He was Awful Rivers in WASh this season.
And continues to shoot 54% FT.
HOU could use defensive help.

Look at who'd been on the Rockettes roster this year:

Bums:
Melo
Zhou Qi
MCW
Marquise Chriss

Gimps:
Brandon Knight
Nene Hilario

D-Leaguered:
Danuel House
Gary Clark
James Nunnally (being added to replace House)

Erratics:
Gerald Green
Au Rivers

A weird assortment of players.


So is Melo's career over?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 16, 2019, 02:04:04 PM
James Nunnaly is reportedly on the way to HOU

Melo should finish his career in Brooklyn.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 16, 2019, 03:14:23 PM
Houston should've kept D'anthony Melton.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 16, 2019, 03:17:54 PM
Melo is trying to decide if he actually misses basketball at all.

Both Rivers are better off now Austin is off the Clippers.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 16, 2019, 04:46:35 PM
Enes' piece in the Washington Post.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/enes-kanter-anyone-who-speaks-out-against-erdogan-is-a-target-that-includes-me/2019/01/15/dea79a90-1846-11e9-88fe-f9f77a3bcb6c_story.html?utm_term=.5733b8f4bac5 (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/enes-kanter-anyone-who-speaks-out-against-erdogan-is-a-target-that-includes-me/2019/01/15/dea79a90-1846-11e9-88fe-f9f77a3bcb6c_story.html?utm_term=.5733b8f4bac5)

Turkey puts out an Interpol red arrest notice:https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwikqoSsovPfAhV9ThUIHTD8AvUQ0PADMAF6BAgAEAU&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.espn.com%2Fnba%2Fstory%2F_%2Fid%2F25776360%2Fturkey-seeking-warrant-enes-kanter-new-york-knicks&usg=AOvVaw1dhTKIS8UkI8NymWhBmCWn
 (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwikqoSsovPfAhV9ThUIHTD8AvUQ0PADMAF6BAgAEAU&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.espn.com%2Fnba%2Fstory%2F_%2Fid%2F25776360%2Fturkey-seeking-warrant-enes-kanter-new-york-knicks&usg=AOvVaw1dhTKIS8UkI8NymWhBmCWn)

Nothing you didn't know..about Enes' situation..about the situation in Turkey, about Erdogan, but a good reminder  — whatever you think of his game or his place on the Knicks, of the situation he's been playing under and what an insipid babbling little piece of shit Kam is;)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 16, 2019, 05:07:37 PM
Yeah, its quite revolting when anyone makes light of Enes's political situation

Mike Francessa is also guilty of this today
Title: Enemy of my enemy aint my fren
Post by: Kam on January 16, 2019, 09:48:58 PM
Fuck Erdogan.

Fuck Kanter too.
Title: Re: Enemy of my enemy aint my fren
Post by: chipstern on January 16, 2019, 10:23:43 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 16, 2019, 09:48:58 PM
Fuck Erdogan.

Fuck Kanter too.

FUCKU NOSEBLEED
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 16, 2019, 10:43:29 PM
That's what Kanter needed to do.  Publicize Erdogan's dictatorship and crimes.  I wish he also mentioned how many newspapers and tv stations have been closed.  And the number of reporters jailed in Turkey (most in the world?).  And maybe a little about the high level of corruption Erdogan presides over.  I'm glad he highlighted the abductions in Kosovo, which made a lot of Turks in exile in Bosnia and other Balkan countries rather nervous.
Good job by Kanter using his platform and risking his safety for what is right.  Not easy standing up to a dictator. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 16, 2019, 10:59:24 PM
Crazy-ass Nets game.
I tuned in with a few minutes left and thendown 6 with 28 secs left, I switched to the Raps-Celts game, which was a 1 point Raps lead with 3 mins left, and then Kyrie killed TOR from there.  Then I look and Nets took it to OT somehow.  Dinwiddie scored 25 points in the 4Q and OT.  Made crazy 3's to send it to OT and kept rolling in OT.

Towards the end Nets started ball denying Harden and double teaming him.  Nunnaly hit a big 3 late in the 4Q and again in OT.  AuRiv missed a key 3 with 6 secs left in OT that could have won it.  Rattled out. 

Nets game had a 46-37 4Q.
HOU shot an NBA record 70 3-pointers(23-70 = 33%)

Crazy game.
Big W for Nets.
Dinwiddie!
Quote
Dinwiddie forced overtime, making three 3-pointers in the last 30 seconds of regulation.
Title: Re: Enemy of my enemy aint my fren
Post by: Nagel on January 16, 2019, 11:56:20 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 16, 2019, 10:23:43 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 16, 2019, 09:48:58 PM
Fuck Erdogan.

Fuck Kanter too.

FUCKU NOSEBLEED

ditto, nosebleed too kind.
Title: MESSAGE FROM RECEP
Post by: carlos123 on January 17, 2019, 01:18:28 AM
Quote from: Nagel on January 16, 2019, 11:56:20 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 16, 2019, 10:23:43 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 16, 2019, 09:48:58 PM
Fuck Erdogan.

Fuck Kanter too.

FUCKU NOSEBLEED

ditto, nosebleed too kind.

Quoted from Anadolu press service:

“Agent Kam(s)ter is going too far. He was never authorized to insult his excellence just to hide whom he serves. Praise our heroic President, or else...”

And this from carlos123:
Hey Nagel, WELCOME BACK. About time!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 17, 2019, 01:52:05 AM
Dray Green averaging more rebounds and more assists than points.  Though just slightly.  Close to 7 / 7 / 7.
He's had a poor shooting season.

NOPe left GreenDay open a good deal in order to double Scurry, and Dray made them pay popping in 4-7 3's and dishing out 14 assists (mostly on drive and dishes).

NO scored 140 and lost by 7.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 17, 2019, 03:09:17 AM
Kanter is earning major respect for the way he’s using his platform as a prominent NBA player to bring to light the the tightening autocracy in Turkey. He can continue doing this as a prominent NBA player on a different team. If he gets traded he’s National news for a minute there, giving him a broader audience than he normally has to expose the situation. If he helps that team secure a playoff spot, a prospect that has dissipated with the Knicks this year, he has again scored a broad audience deeper into the year. 

Title: Kanter fans are losers
Post by: Kam on January 17, 2019, 08:40:57 AM
Kanter makes $18mil a year and can say whatever he wants  from these borders while he plays no defense and imagines himself an All-Star.

Those who defend Kanter as some kind of sympathetic figure need to have their panties changed.

Fuck you thrice bitches.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 17, 2019, 09:23:42 AM
Kam diagnosed with Jerry Yang syndrome ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 17, 2019, 09:34:55 AM
BTW, one of the worst things Erdogan has done is to derail the peace process with the Turkish Kurds and ratchet up the war against them.  This was done to assure that Erdogan would be able to have a 2/3rds majority in parliament and thereby be able to change the constitution and governing system (a la Putin) to continue as leader/dictator indefinitely. 

So Erdogan started jailing and killing and repressing Kurds again as part of a power grab to keep control and keep corruption flourishing to his family and friends.  He reignited the dirty war and then made the Kurdish parties illegal so they couldn't run, as they were part of a coalition blocking him from taking over the gov't in full.  If that isn't a crime against humanity . . .

It also informs his policy vis a vis the Syrian Kurds who he wouldn't need to fight with if he allowed the Kurds in his own country to engage in politics and speak their own language and live their lives without oppression and violence from the state.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 17, 2019, 02:05:21 PM
Program.m note

Game is at 3 pm today...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on January 17, 2019, 03:02:39 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 17, 2019, 09:23:42 AM
Kam diagnosed with Jerry Yang syndrome ...

No kidding.

Let it go, Kam. You're otherwise one of the, if not the, most interesting poster here. But let the Kanter stuff go. It's too much, and it's beneath you.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 17, 2019, 03:10:02 PM
lol.  I woke up to a smear campaign.  Just returning the fuck yous.


---

You don't need to fucking tell me about Turkey and Erdogan. Jeezus christ.

Some ppl here are so stupid they think hating Kanter = supporting Erdogan.

Or that by being a Kanter bball fan you're on the right side of history.
Title: Game on
Post by: Kam on January 17, 2019, 03:17:48 PM
Knicks wearing their road blues.  Hardaway back.  Five guys spaced around the three pt line as Kornet sinks a 3 to get the road team on the board.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on January 17, 2019, 03:21:55 PM
I think it was Bill Simmons that was pushing the Timmy/Frank for DSJ/Wessy deal, but I'm not sure I'd do that.

Here's a more complicated version that may work better for us and still work for Dallas:

Dallas gets: Timmy / Vonleh / TJ Warren
Dallas gives: Wessy Wes / Barea / DSJ / lotto protected 1st

Phoenix gets: Mudiay / Lee / Dal lotto protected 1st
Phoenix gives: TJ Warren / Troy Daniels / 2nd rounder

NY gets: DSJ / Wessy (expiring) / Barea (expiring) / Daniels (expiring) / Phx 2nd rounder
NY gives: Timmy / Vonleh / Mudiay / Lee

It would be tough to lose Vonleh. But I don't think we can chase free agents and expect to have a shot at him, it's one or the other. He's never had a big contract, and if a team offers him an MLE type deal he's not going to tell them to hold on while NY dances with every big name in the FA market.

Mudiay is better than DSJ now, so there's definite risk in that swap. But the contract situation is in DSJ's favour, and the upside is greater, I'd say. This would be a bet on Fizdale's ability to rehabilitate DSJ.

The deal would also create roughly ~24m extra in cap space next year on top of the $30 or so we have (depends on where we draft, and what the cap ends up being).

Any takers?


Another version, where we keep Timmy/Vonleh, but tough to see either Phoenix or Dallas agreeing to this unless the latter really wants TJ Warren and the former wants to clear the books:

Dallas gets: Lee / TJ Warren / NYK 2nd rounder
Dallas gives: Wessy Wes / DSJ

Phoenix gets: Mudiay / Hezonja
Phoenix gives: TJ Warren / Troy Daniels

NY gets: DSJ / Wessy (expiring) / Daniels (expiring)
NY gives: Mudiay / Lee / Hezonja / 2nd rounder
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on January 17, 2019, 03:37:18 PM
Kornet plays smart, usually, and has good hands. But he's so awkward when he gets out of his lane.  Both the post-up and the fast-break were well below NBA quality.

Timmy needs to stop losing players off the ball (he ball watches).

Mitch!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 17, 2019, 03:52:08 PM
I'm ok with Kornet's limitations.   Him posting up?  Wasn't the whole point of starting him is to open up driving lanes?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 17, 2019, 04:07:33 PM
Frank sparking Knicks

+16 in 10 minutes
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 17, 2019, 05:10:00 PM
I tune in to start the 4Q.  Knix up 12.
And they fail to score for 5 mins.
2 points in the first 6 mins of the 4Q.

I guess we need the loss ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 17, 2019, 05:11:21 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 17, 2019, 05:10:00 PM
I tune in to start the 4Q.  Knix up 12.
And they fail to score for 5 mins.


Sage your apartment.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 17, 2019, 05:27:26 PM
Well, no OT ...
Title: International Game - There's no Goaltending
Post by: Kam on January 17, 2019, 05:27:39 PM
NBA Game - Goaltending



They should invoke FIBA rules
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 17, 2019, 05:29:48 PM
Morris is wearing a hoodie with a suit jacket ...
Title: Fizzle
Post by: Kam on January 17, 2019, 05:31:25 PM
I don't like the play call to end the game.  Should've ran the play Washington ran and at least get a guy going towards the hoop.

Instead we get a Muddy turnaround prayer.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 17, 2019, 05:45:33 PM
Ulgy 4Q.
Lotta poor turnovers.
Mud just falling down when driving for a layup.
(I guess technically that wasn't a turnover since the ball rolled out to Knox who had to quickly jack a 3 as the shot clock expired).
3-on-2 fast break and Tim just failed to catch the ball.

All the Knick points in the last 3 mins came off Vonleh post-ups. 
2 Vonleh hook shots and a kick out for a Mud 3.
Otherwise, Knix scored just 4 points all quarter.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 17, 2019, 06:06:51 PM
Starting backcourt 3 assists to 8 turnovers.

Zo’s Spike keeps our tank game strong.

Satoransky is definitely a better player than Hardaway.

We still have a lot of players with a lot to work on. Some will move up and some will move on.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 17, 2019, 06:08:01 PM
Looked like a surefire win through three quarters.  Was building a narrative around... ok at least we can be winners in Europe... but no....snorting defeat from the bowels of victory, we shat the 4th q bed.
Title: Fiz drives the tank
Post by: carlos123 on January 17, 2019, 06:19:02 PM
Or else, why leave Timmy on the court and Frank on the bench for the last Wash. play.

We needed the loss as both Chicago and Phoenix are gonna lose today. Trier goaltend was the play of the game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 17, 2019, 10:06:11 PM
Maront ahead of Reddish.  Hmmmmmm

https://twitter.com/erecasner/status/1086096505587421184 (https://twitter.com/erecasner/status/1086096505587421184)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 17, 2019, 11:00:13 PM
Oubre goes for 18 and 9
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 17, 2019, 11:11:36 PM
Suns only lost to Raps on a Siakam buzzer shot.

Oubre went 3-15 FG but 11-13 FT's . . .
5 O-boards so maybe got fouled on putback attempts(?)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 17, 2019, 11:46:28 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 17, 2019, 05:45:33 PM
Ulgy 4Q.
Lotta poor turnovers.
Mud just falling down when driving for a layup.
(I guess technically that wasn't a turnover since the ball rolled out to Knox who had to quickly jack a 3 as the shot clock expired).
3-on-2 fast break and Tim just failed to catch the ball.

All the Knick points in the last 3 mins came off Vonleh post-ups. 
2 Vonleh hook shots and a kick out for a Mud 3.
Otherwise, Knix scored just 4 points all quarter.

If Knox hits the rim we win the game
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 18, 2019, 12:30:59 AM
Too bad Mud went into Disaster Mode
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 18, 2019, 12:38:37 AM
Can't expect a rookie to bail out a W
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 18, 2019, 12:53:33 AM
It’s nice when they do though.

The Hardaway fumble on the break was pretty brutal to our chances.

In a one point game you can point to any mistake, early or late.

If left alone, would the shot Trier altered have gone in?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on January 18, 2019, 01:37:34 AM
Wonderful game almost ruined by a win. Trier and Mud  coming back. Luke evolving with use.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 18, 2019, 01:45:28 AM
Every loss that is this close.... have to allow the imagination to picture KP back and a much better record with his added presence alone.

Say we don't get a KD or a Kemba.... we can still retain guys like Vonleh and be able to build more slowly. 

May be a longer route to the promised land, but it would be a more fulfilling one.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 18, 2019, 02:00:41 AM
This season we project to lose about 20 games by two possessions or less. 

One outta every three losses or so are these "close calls" or "moral victories"

If we had a healthy KP.... I figure he could easily add 15 Wins by himself and perhaps even more.

If he don't then we are in deep doodoo next year also.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on January 18, 2019, 02:10:52 AM
Quote from: Kam on January 18, 2019, 01:45:28 AM
Say we don't get a KD or a Kemba.... we can still retain guys like Vonleh and be able to build more slowly. 

May be a longer route to the promised land, but it would be a more fulfilling one.

Especially with some lottery luck
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 18, 2019, 04:03:10 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 18, 2019, 12:53:33 AM
It’s nice when they do though.

The Hardaway fumble on the break was pretty brutal to our chances.

In a one point game you can point to any mistake, early or late.

If left alone, would the shot Trier altered have gone in?

hit




the



fucking




rim
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 18, 2019, 04:05:23 AM
Quote from: Kam on January 18, 2019, 01:45:28 AM
Every loss that is this close.... have to allow the imagination to picture KP back and a much better record with his added presence alone.

Say we don't get a KD or a Kemba.... we can still retain guys like Vonleh and MUDIAY and be able to build more slowly. 

May be a longer route to the promised land, but it would be a more fulfilling one.

fixed
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on January 18, 2019, 04:46:25 AM
I can see mud as a possible star at PG. KK a productive forward. Luke a rotational plus and Trier OK. Add KP, a lotto, and a FA fit or two and voila. Burke, Tim, Von ? Corlee, lancela definitely not the missing pieces.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 18, 2019, 08:01:28 AM
https://twitter.com/rex_rexchapman/status/1086156146061250560?s=20 (https://twitter.com/rex_rexchapman/status/1086156146061250560?s=20)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on January 18, 2019, 08:46:47 AM
That was close, I thought them idiots were gonna win that game :D.  My keepers are definitely Mudiaye as soon as players start playing good for the knicks we trade them.  I'd keep Vonleh, forget about the cap space we need players and we got a few good role players to stick around.  I like Dotsons game although he gets overlooked.  Mudiay, Dotson, Trier, My boy KNOX fuh sho, Vonleh, Robinson, and Kanter.  The rest we can trash and look for an upgrade.  That is my core.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 18, 2019, 09:20:05 AM
Keep Kanter.   Dump Frank.

Jacques with the facial!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 18, 2019, 02:53:25 PM
Frank will be a more dependable scorer than Mudiay in a year’s time. Maybe resign Mudiay, especially if we can move Tim.

We’ll see what the Market has to say about Enes.

Keep Vonleh if at all possible.
Title: On the road to Zion
Post by: Kam on January 18, 2019, 03:44:02 PM
Jah will be waiting there
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 18, 2019, 03:54:47 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 18, 2019, 02:53:25 PM
Frank will be a more dependable scorer than Mudiay   N E V E R

Fixed
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 18, 2019, 04:24:52 PM
https://twitter.com/SiriusXMNBA/status/1086363705309306881 (https://twitter.com/SiriusXMNBA/status/1086363705309306881)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 19, 2019, 12:45:22 AM
D'Angelo!!!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 19, 2019, 01:36:16 PM
The Nyets have some nice pieces.

The Bulls have upped their tank game now Wendell Carter broke his thumb.

Mudiay is projecting somewhere between Lance Stevenson and Lou Williams. It is an impressive jump for the kid from what he was.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 19, 2019, 02:26:29 PM
Laying some $ on Nets to win East
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 19, 2019, 02:46:17 PM
Nets dropped Faried who is set to join HOU once they clear a roster spot.  Faried has been a terrible defender, so not sure how that will help HOU.  Plus no need to guard him outside the paint so that only clogs things up.  He can dunk so will get a few lobs from Harden.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 19, 2019, 04:51:57 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 19, 2019, 02:26:29 PM
Laying some $ on Nets to win East

A better bet than trump re-election, though not by much.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on January 19, 2019, 05:35:37 PM
---Rumor: Suns, Magic have inquired about Knicks’ Frank Ntilikina---
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on January 19, 2019, 06:18:52 PM
interesting last few seconds in the 76ers-OKC game.

looked like Simmons was petrified to shoot/couldn't get rid of the ball fast enough
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 19, 2019, 07:11:12 PM
Bulls need to beat the Heat.
Title: Tankathon
Post by: carlos123 on January 19, 2019, 09:19:33 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 19, 2019, 07:11:12 PM
Bulls need to beat the Heat.

Yeah, right. Like the Suns needed to beat the Hornets and the Cavs. need to beat Denver.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 19, 2019, 09:29:32 PM
Have to thank Phil Jackson for not trading #1 picks.

Granted he kinda backdoored into Kristaps

Frank looks now like a reach as a #8 pick PG of the future.  A selection made to fit the Triangle.  Though his growth spurt leads one to believe he can be a Boris Diaw type useful player.  His usefulness may well be realized in another destination as his extreme youth and stage of development make it unlikely we match a RFA offer if we have other options.

Kevin Knox looking like he will become a capable scorer and perhaps future All-Star candidate

The 2019 pick is sure to be Top 5 and bring another highly desired player/asset.

If no Superstar comes i'm fine with that.  I'm less fine with paying big money too a lesser player/borderline All-Star.

Would Middleton be worth it?  Or should we just resign Vonleh and Mudiay to reasonable contracts we could trade when a big time talent becomes available.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 19, 2019, 09:34:04 PM
I think i vote don't sign any free agents not named Kevin or Kyrie.

Sign the reclamation players done good.

Play a season with KP and the kids next year.

In 2021 when Hardaway's contract is ending, package him and maybe a Mudiay for a guy who wants to leave wherever he is and come here.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on January 20, 2019, 12:11:52 AM
Quote from: Kam on January 19, 2019, 09:34:04 PM
I think i vote don't sign any free agents not named Kevin or Kyrie.

Sign the reclamation players done good.

Play a season with KP and the kids next year.

In 2021 when Hardaway's contract is ending, package him and maybe a Mudiay for a guy who wants to leave wherever he is and come here.

Add Kemba to that list and I'm ok.

I'd also look at some mid-tier players on a decent contract (someone like Delon Wright might be gettable).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 20, 2019, 01:02:07 AM
Quote from: luee on January 19, 2019, 05:35:37 PM
---Rumor: Suns, Magic have inquired about Knicks’ Frank Ntilikina---

I'll take Troy Daniels

Or Jarrel Martin
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 20, 2019, 05:26:21 AM
Khem Birch is interesting.
But we have Mitch and Von Leh.

Jon Isaac could be an all-star if he learns how to play the game of basketball ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 20, 2019, 05:53:26 AM
Young Lakes couldn't close out HOU.
Also had a lot of trouble running inbounds plays late 3Q and OT.
Might have helped if Luke was still there (ejected 3Q) instead of Shaw(?)   It's going to be a tough playoff road for the Lakes if they are 6-8 seed.  Though outside of GS, unclear who else is going to be a playoff juggernaut.  DEN inexperienced; Rustbrook prone to bad shooting with an iffy OKC bench; POR looks like a regular season team; HOU could be deadly, though their defense has slipped; Spurs old & slow and more a regular season team.

Remember when LeBJ seemed indestructible?
Just missed his 13th game with a groin strain.
Remember when Kobe was going to pass Kareem for most points ever?
Old guys get injured, recover slower, and when things drop off, the cliff is often precipitous. 

CP3 just missed his 14th game.
And look at poor Dirk.  Barely can get on the court, 3-17 FG in his last 4 games, every shot a 3 out of necessity.   His season high is 16 mins and he went 0-10 FG in that one for 0 points.  He's a mummy now.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 20, 2019, 09:16:41 AM
No Walton?

Please.

No Lonzo.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 20, 2019, 02:04:04 PM
I was specifically referring to the inbounds plays.

I still don't like Ingram much.  There's talent there, but also sloppiness.  And a too-cool-for-school attitude or whatever vibe I'm picking up.

Was watching the Clips the other day and Shy-Gorgeous was doing Sean Livingston post-ups and shooting over the smaller Scurry.  Since he doesn't really have a 3-point shot yet, Livingston would be a good model for him.  (SGA is shooting 35% on 3's, but just 1.5 hoists a game).  SGA is basically what we hope for in Franc.  Not that ShyGuy is there yet, but he shows definite promise on both ends.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 20, 2019, 04:44:44 PM
Shay and Monk over Knox and Frank.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 20, 2019, 05:50:21 PM
Ingram may be the next Harden

LA doesnt want to deal him but may have to.  Next locale - stardpm?  We will see
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 20, 2019, 06:36:11 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 20, 2019, 04:44:44 PM
Shay and Monk over Knox and Frank.

Not sure SGA is as good as Frank long term.

Monk is one dimensional and not all that good.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 20, 2019, 06:45:29 PM
Monk looks limited.
Might take years before he finds his game (akin to Jeremy Lamb who has supplanted him) ... if he has one.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 20, 2019, 07:03:03 PM
Monk has been averaging 18 minutes all season

Ar 20, improved over 19.....

Knoxish?  Different player, but sure - when speaking of levels.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 20, 2019, 07:22:31 PM
Monk hasn't started a game.
He's an undersized SG who can't shoot.
The only NBA skill he's demonstrated is FT shooting and he rarely gets to the line. 

Maybe on defense Knox and Monk have something in common (for now).  You'd be better off comparing Monk to Franc.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 20, 2019, 09:42:35 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 20, 2019, 07:22:31 PM
Monk hasn't started a game.


Never said he did

Like Mudiay he gets 20 points per 36 minutes
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on January 21, 2019, 12:09:07 AM
I like Frank but I'd definitely take Shai over him. SGA just understands the game so well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 21, 2019, 05:15:35 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on January 21, 2019, 12:09:07 AM
I like Frank but I'd definitely take Shai over him. SGA just understands the game so well.

Yep.  And has a nice bounce to him.
Been slumping some in January, but it's a long season for rooks.
And not easy to be a starting PG as a rook.

Uber-Watch:
Last 5 games averaging 20 & 7 boards on 48% / 42% shooting in 28 bench minutes.  Toss in roughly one block and one steal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 21, 2019, 11:06:11 AM
Yeah

14, 3 and 1 overall with Suns but the shooting % is notable (46/38/73)

Still time for the young man.

Dekker has played less and is at 54% for Washington with some of Oubre's minutes.

Kelly had 0.7 assists in 26 minute with Wash - while Dekker gets 0.9 in 16.  Rebound per minute slightly to Dekker, who possesses a 16.3 PER for the year overall.

I think WASH did OK.  Many decisions still to make (I would deal Porter)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 21, 2019, 03:12:23 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 21, 2019, 11:06:11 AM
I think WASH did OK.  Many decisions still to make (I would deal Porter)

I don't think they did okay.  They traded a young promising SF for an old vet SF in Ariza, hoping to make the playoffs.  I don't think that was going to work, but almost immediately thereafter, Wall is done for the season, and adding Ariza looks pointless.*

Also, they waited too long to move Uber, so his value was down since he is a rookie-contract-ending deal, meaning he needs to get paid, while he's shown promise and flashes but not clearly starter material yet.  Still they could have moved Ube for another young guy.  Especially to a team with a good balance sheet that wouldn't mind paying Uber next year (a la PHX).  I'd have to look around for possibilities, but perhaps Skal Labisserie who has trouble finding minutes in Sacto.  Or Khem Birch in ORL.  Thon Maker?  Hell, I'd rather add Rich Holmes from PHX, a hard worker, rather than Ariza who will bolt first chance he gets. 

If they were going to deal Porter (not easy given his contract), then they should have kept Oubre as a replacement at likely half the cost or less next year.  The reason they dealt Uber was their cap is all clogged up with deals such as Wall and Porter's, so they weren't going to pay Uber the $12M +/-$2M he'll want.

So, I think Ernie made a hash of things.
* They should view Ariza as a trade asset and look to move him to a contender (HOU! or OKC or ??) before the deadline, and give Double Dekker bigger minutes.  That could salvage something from the mess they've made.

Can't say I trust Ernie to know Bernard King from Burger King these days, after he thought it was a good idea to add Au Revoir and Dwight to an already underperforming, dysfunctional team . . .

Meansowhile, Uber is averaging 14.5 & 4.2 Boards with PHX.  Your numbers tend to be wrong.  Also, when you support someone you like to inflate their contributions by citing per36, but apparently don't do it on players you don't like.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on January 21, 2019, 03:45:41 PM
Bang on about everything there, Bo.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 21, 2019, 05:55:13 PM
Bulls win!  : )
Cavs lose. : (
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 21, 2019, 07:02:06 PM
We have sole possession of the second worst record.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on January 21, 2019, 07:10:58 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 21, 2019, 07:02:06 PM
We have sole possession of the second worst record.
Well-earned.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 21, 2019, 09:36:28 PM
They dealt Rivers to get rid of Gortat
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 21, 2019, 09:39:48 PM
If they did now move Ariza it would be getting something (future) for

a)  Gortat, who needed to go
B)  Oubre, who was not coming back

One recent analysis by a Wiz guy said the only other way to use Oubre would have been to tack him onto a Porter or Wall to somewhat sweeten a deal getting a  LT contract out of town.   But a lowly team like PHO would likely be the only team that might extend KO, so the pickin there was slim.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 21, 2019, 10:12:52 PM
3 guard lineup clicks again for Wiz

Dekker with 11 and 5 in 19 minutes

Ariza 20-12-4

I am sure Randle was again effective despite his 1 point.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 21, 2019, 10:14:26 PM
Dangelo continues solid play with 31-8-4
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 22, 2019, 02:11:12 AM
Melo finds a home in Chicago. They should play him along side Parker because why not?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 22, 2019, 07:26:18 AM
Anthony will not suit up for the Bulls.

Hoping its not Lakers and not Brooklyn
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 22, 2019, 11:04:00 AM
The Bulls don't want Melo and Melo doesn't want the Bulls.
Bulls are so bad that Wade swapped jerseys with Benny the Bull, their mascot (true).

Rockettes paid Bulls some $$ to take Melo.

Things got a bit complicated and HOU had to cut Nunnaly to add Faried, because they couldn't get rid of Melo soon enough.  MLK holiday affected things.  First off, Nunnaly might be better than Faried.  Should have had Faried wait a day.  Second, Faried ain't no C.  3rd, why was MLK holiday a week late?  His birthday is Jan 15 ...

HOU got mangled in PHI anyway.
AuRevoir started and submitted a goose egg in 27 mins for a team worst -28.  The non Harden starters were just 5-23 FG.
And PHI was without Butler ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on January 22, 2019, 12:36:15 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 21, 2019, 10:14:26 PM
Dangelo continues solid play with 31-8-4

Playing career best ball for a month now.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 22, 2019, 01:18:39 PM
Weird season. We’re bloody awful, of course. But I like a lot of these players. Fun to watch. Many of them are improving before our eyes. But despite that, one doesn’t see much…chemistry. I’m just talking about two or three guys who seem to play quite well together. Or am I missing something?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 22, 2019, 01:41:07 PM
I think the kind of chemistry that holds up against cohesive, talented, and experienced defense takes at least a couple of seasons to pull together. We are running a lot with first and second year players and guys who were put together this season. This leads to sequences where two wings scramble to the same corner leaving a guy wide open on the other side or instead of having a sure option A, B, and C in mind when someone comes to set a pick, the ball handler is a little uncertain about what the other guys will do. These kind of glaring uglies will cost us quarters and games as they frequently are already this season. Among the set of guys flailing around on the court in Knicks uniforms this year is a subset of players who can grow into the core of a squad that plays with chemistry in those same jerseys down the line.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on January 23, 2019, 12:05:22 AM
Quote from: elephant on January 22, 2019, 01:18:39 PM
Weird season. We’re bloody awful, of course. But I like a lot of these players. Fun to watch. Many of them are improving before our eyes. But despite that, one doesn’t see much…chemistry. I’m just talking about two or three guys who seem to play quite well together. Or am I missing something?

I'd agree with this. Fiz had done a commendable job getting players to believe in themselves and to try hard despite difficult circumstances. He hasn't had as much success in building any sort of cohesion. The Hawks, for example, play a lot more cohesively despite not having much more talent or experience than the Knicks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 23, 2019, 01:05:44 PM
Kings were super sloppy v. Raps.
SAC might want to have a backup PG over 6 feet tall.
Fox was out and they have midges running the show.
Mason was a stumblebum.

14 Turnovers, but a million deflected passes and awkward nearly lost dribbles.  Bogdanovich was close to a trip-dub and was the only King who looked like he'd seen a basketball previously.

Siakam looks pretty terrific.  Took a leap form last year's strong showing.
TOR can court a defense of Lowry - Green - Kawhi - Siakam - Ibaka.
I should check if they've used that, but sure sounds formidable.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 23, 2019, 01:38:28 PM
Well...it WAS the Raptors, preseason kings of the east
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 23, 2019, 01:54:06 PM
Kawhi, Valanciunas & OG were all out.

Though I think the Kings can't function without Fox.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 23, 2019, 02:47:07 PM
That’s why I’ve been saying Kanter & Burke for ZBo & Kufos. It gives them someone fairly effective with the ball in his hands while Fox gets his rest.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 23, 2019, 03:32:57 PM
They don't need Kant.
They have WCS, Bagley3, Bjelica as their Bigs.
Will Kant be happy there backing up WCS?
Also, Knix don';t need to move Kant, we need to move Courtly or Tim.

I'd be trying to interest them in Burke and Courtly for their expirings.
Right now, they start Shump at SG and he's also expiring as is McLemore who they don't seem to trust.  Tim Jr is more of a commitment for Sacto to take on, and Hield is already better in a similar role.

Actually, looking at their roster, you can see why they are around .500.
Fox - Yogi/Mason
Shump - Bogdanovic
Hield - Jackson
Bejelica - Bagley III
WCS - Koufos

Pretty solid with a lot of young legs.  Fox & Hield having nice seasons.
Bog is pretty slick.  WCS is solid.  Bejelica is good.  Bagley athletic and big.  I'm not really sure what Justin Jax's game is. 

They have the lowest payroll this season, with at least $37M in ending deals.  They could bring back Shump on a cheaper deal -- say $6M instead of his current $11M.  And maybe that is preferable to paying Courtly $12M.  But they'll need to add players just to meet the minimum payroll for next year.  Koufos, McLemore and Zach all likely gone.  I'd think Courtly is more reliable than Shump.
Really Bogdan x2 should be readywillingable to start next year.

I haven't seen the Kings enough to know what's going on with them.
Seems they need to upgrade their backup PG and SG slots.

Burke and Courtly for whichever endings they want to toss our way.
McLemore & Koufos would match the $$ almost exactly
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 23, 2019, 05:14:07 PM
You have convinced me, Bo.

Kufos and McLemore for Lee and Burke.

I’m sold.

Now we’ve just got to convince the Kings...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 23, 2019, 06:48:35 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 20, 2019, 06:36:11 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 20, 2019, 04:44:44 PM
Shay and Monk over Knox and Frank.

Not sure SGA is as good as Frank long term.

Monk is one dimensional and not all that good.

You funny.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 23, 2019, 11:14:49 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 23, 2019, 05:14:07 PM
You have convinced me, Bo.
Kufos and McLemore for Lee and Burke.

Or any other combo of their ending deals.
That was just the one that matched the $$ best.

Apparently the feeling around the league is that the Knix would need to attach a 2nd rounder to get a team to bite on Courtly.  (Or maybe Datsun?).  But come the trade deadline perhaps a playoff-aspiring team will need a steady SG.  Injuries or slumps happen.  And Courtly is a low-key vet who can fill in anywhere easily.  Knix should start auditioning Courtly a couple weeks prior to the deadline.  Let him start over Tim Jr a couple games.  Or at minimum be the featured 2nd unit scorer.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 23, 2019, 11:33:19 PM
So no one watched the game?
Looks like a barnburner.
Knix with admirable fight in a deserved L.

Doesn't look like starting Lancelot helped.
Why not have Kanter bully the small Rockettes?  Not like anyone worries about Faried knocking down 3's.

Mud 2 assists/7 turns.
Franc 6 assists/ 0 points
At least Knick bench did well (though foul prone).  Helps that HOU barely has a bench these days.   

With all the injuries, maybe HOU should have held on to Melo for a few more weeks(!)  Sad the way his career nose-dived.  Knix moved him just in time.  I always said the end of his deal would be an albatross.
Hard to remember the game moving on from a player faster.
If he gets a next team, who?  NOPe?  DET?  PHI?  UTA?  LBJ?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 24, 2019, 12:00:42 AM
We need to attach a pick with Courtney because we haven't played him all year. If he were averaging 10+ a game, shooting 40 percent from 3 and bringing his usual attention to defense, it wouldn't be a problem. Typical Knick managerial ineptitude.

The game had its moments, but overall, more coaching in the direct service of losing.

We are on track 4 Zion 4 sure.

Knicks, again, much better with Frank on the floor than Mudiay. Nice passing. Very fine defense. Inexplicable that he wasn't out there for the last two key defensive possessions. Unless winning is not the goal. You can imagine him as part of a winning lineup. Mudiay, still, not so much.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on January 24, 2019, 01:56:41 AM
Lancela starts, only scores by accident. Worst offensive starter in the league. Phil brings in cortly, and Franky, and this nonentity. Defensive grit, good locker room presence? I do not remember anyone like him with Bulls or Lakers. Even in a tank year he is a tough watch.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 24, 2019, 02:06:29 AM
Next couple weeks will be rough.  Constant trade rumors.  Hopefully we do something to clear space and air out the stink of these ill-fitting parts.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 24, 2019, 04:37:30 AM
This game was way too fast for Enes. He played exactly the right amount of minutes.

Super Mario could have taken Lance’s minutes without costing us production.

Mitch blocked two Harden 3s.

Mudiay’s play is falling below the value of his cap hold. Good thing Frank and Trier will be able to hold the position down after this season.

Good to see Knox getting boards and blocks.

Close but no cigar works best in the season of the tank.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 24, 2019, 09:49:26 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 24, 2019, 04:37:30 AM


Good to see Knox getting boards and blocks.



And AN assist.

Progress - that's SIX in 5 games.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 24, 2019, 09:57:00 AM
Knicks offense to defense rating

Robinson -  +26
Kornet -  +8
Kanter -  +6
Vonleh -  +3
LEE -  +1  (and 109-109 for career)


I think NBA types KNOW Lee enough without seeing the game minutes.  They just wont want that salary on their books for next year unless they see Courtney's skills putting them in much better shape for this year's playoffs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 24, 2019, 10:08:02 AM
Like all sports, METRICS will only become more important in pro hoops

That said -

Knicks positive VORP

Vonleh    1.0
Robinson   1.0
Kanter     1.0
Kornet    0.4
Hardaway  0.1
Mudiay    0.1
Dotson   0.1
Lee     0.1

Top 20 in league are between 2.2 and 5.9

Very clearly we do not have a star.  Even KP's VORP topped at 1.2
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 24, 2019, 10:46:29 AM
Well, caught the last 3 mins.
Didn't realize the game was on Chinese Tv.
But got home too late for most of the replay.

Fun stuff.
Trier must've scored 8+ in the last 2 mins.
Fizz got worried we might win and get T'd up to help HOU.
Mud was erratic -- you could never tell if he was going to turn it over or score or get fouled or foul somebody.  He wasn't passing though.

Two oddball plays.  After a made Trier FT, HOU inbounds the ball, and for some reason PJ Tuck thinks he can't touch it.  Gifting the Knix a possession/layup.  Absolutely bizarre.  Where was his mind?
Friar Tuck also missed a late corner 3 and got burned by Trier for a layup. 

The other peculiar play was the Knix inbounding to Vonleh with 8 secs left, and he decides to dribble towards mid-court and Harden steals the ball easily.  Sure sometimes you have to inbound into a Big, but he needs to get the ball to a playmaker (Mud or Trier or Tim) rather quickly.

Anyway, it was a fun last 3 mins even if the Knix basically only iso-ed Mud or Trier.  Mitch's block of Harden's late 3 was quite nice.  Length.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on January 24, 2019, 11:31:14 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on January 24, 2019, 12:00:42 AM
Knicks, again, much better with Frank on the floor than Mudiay. Nice passing. Very fine defense. Inexplicable that he wasn't out there for the last two key defensive possessions. Unless winning is not the goal. You can imagine him as part of a winning lineup. Mudiay, still, not so much.

I thought Frank really made a difference on the defensive end, and the Knicks made runs when he entered the game in both the 1st and 3rd. But, as Breen says, he has to start hitting some of his shots.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on January 24, 2019, 11:33:04 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 23, 2019, 01:05:44 PM
Siakam looks pretty terrific.  Took a leap form last year's strong showing.
TOR can court a defense of Lowry - Green - Kawhi - Siakam - Ibaka.
I should check if they've used that, but sure sounds formidable.

That's their normal starting lineup, one they tend to use whenever everyone is dressed.

Siakam leader so far for MIP and a darkhorse all-star candidate.


Quote from: bodiddley on January 23, 2019, 03:32:57 PM
They don't need Kant.
They have WCS, Bagley3, Bjelica as their Bigs.
Will Kant be happy there backing up WCS?

Additionally there is Giles who
shares the back-up 5 minutes with Koufos (MB3/Bjely tend to play 4). So even less need for Kanter. They need a wing stopper, hence the talk of Otto Porter (but the Wizards wanted more than the expirings, which is all the Kings wanted to offer).


Quote from: bodiddley on January 23, 2019, 11:33:19 PM
With all the injuries, maybe HOU should have held on to Melo for a few more weeks(!) 
If he gets a next team, who?  NOPe?  DET?  PHI?  UTA?  LBJ?

All good suggestions, although maybe Utah is not really an option barring a trade. Portland is. I'll guess Philly.


Quote from: bodiddley on January 24, 2019, 10:46:29 AM
After a made Trier FT, HOU inbounds the ball, and for some reason PJ Tuck thinks he can't touch it.  Gifting the Knix a possession/layup.  Absolutely bizarre.  Where was his mind?

I have no idea. It was one of the most bizarre plays of the season. Has there been an explanation?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 24, 2019, 12:01:53 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on January 24, 2019, 11:31:14 AM
I thought Frank really made a difference on the defensive end, and the Knicks made runs when he entered the game in both the 1st and 3rd. But, as Breen says, he has to start hitting some of his shots.

It surely would be nice. But honestly, his 0-5 doesn't hurt much in Fiz's  "Offense."

Not more than any five hardaway clanks. Or five mudiay fumbles.

And how much is our PG going to have to shoot next to Porz, Trier, [front line freeagent], [top 3 pick] [three point shooting big man]?

If that's the plan, he'll work out fine.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 24, 2019, 12:18:23 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on January 24, 2019, 11:31:14 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on January 24, 2019, 12:00:42 AM
Knicks, again, much better with Frank on the floor than Mudiay. Nice passing. Very fine defense. Inexplicable that he wasn't out there for the last two key defensive possessions. Unless winning is not the goal. You can imagine him as part of a winning lineup. Mudiay, still, not so much.

I thought Frank really made a difference on the defensive end, and the Knicks made runs when he entered the game in both the 1st and 3rd. But, as Breen says, he has to start hitting some of his shots.

Its stupefying how he has regressed with his shot making.  It HAS to be an injury he is playing through. Otherwise.... ugh.  He needs to work on his ball handling skills all summer.  If he has to fix his shot also.... he has too far to go.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 24, 2019, 12:22:43 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on January 24, 2019, 11:33:04 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 23, 2019, 01:05:44 PM


Quote from: bodiddley on January 24, 2019, 10:46:29 AM
After a made Trier FT, HOU inbounds the ball, and for some reason PJ Tuck thinks he can't touch it.  Gifting the Knix a possession/layup.  Absolutely bizarre.  Where was his mind?

I have no idea. It was one of the most bizarre plays of the season. Has there been an explanation?

Procedure error.


After the free throw make PJ was supposed to be the inbounder.  So he knew his role was not to touch the ball first.  When E Gordon inbounded the ball instead... it threw him off.  In his mind he thought he was the guy who inbounded it so he can't be the first guy to touch it.

It is still a mistake to be sure... but we have seen this before:

Keenum threw a deep pass near the right sideline to Diggs, who made a leaping catch near the Saints' 35-yard line. Williams was in front of Diggs when he made the catch, but while trying to make a tackle, he completely missed Diggs and instead collided with Crawley, leaving the receiver with no one around him. Diggs nearly fell over at this point, but was able to stay on his feet by using his off-hand and stay in bounds as he ran all the way to the end zone for a 61-yard touchdown completion to give the Vikings a 29–24 win. After several minutes of pandemonium, the Vikings knelt on the extra point try to close out the victory.

Williams didn't hit Diggs because he was afraid of creating a pass interference penalty.   

In both instances the player actually is thinking but they are thinking about Procedure and not about the actual play right in front of their eyes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on January 24, 2019, 01:17:27 PM
Man, that is a bizarre rationale.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on January 24, 2019, 01:20:09 PM
Bovada odds:

Where will Anthony Davis play Game 1 of next season?

Pelicans: +160
Lakers: +190
Celtics: +275
Knicks: +850
76ers: +850
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 24, 2019, 02:32:35 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 24, 2019, 04:37:30 AM
This game was way too fast for Enes. He played exactly the right amount .

You think you beat the Rockets by playing a third-rate version of their game? Of course not. Huge advantdage to be seized with Capela out.

But thats why we haven't won a game since anybody can remember , and why we have the second worst record in the league.

Mission accomplished. And if that's not the mission, it means Fiz may be the worst coach in franchise history.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 24, 2019, 02:38:08 PM
Bad roster for winning now, but a good one to develop. That has to be factored in.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 24, 2019, 02:46:18 PM
No doubt...but make no mistake, there's a penalty you pay when "establishing a winning culture" is just a catch phrase, especially when lottery process has been significantly modified.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 24, 2019, 04:12:23 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on January 24, 2019, 01:17:27 PM
Man, that is a bizarre rationale.

If you keep telling yourself that you're the inbounder, not the guy to handle it, then when someone else inbounds it to you -- you might get brain lock.

There is no other rationale other than he had bet money on the Knicks to win.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 24, 2019, 04:44:10 PM
Look at the replay from the under the basket camera.... PJ makes a little jump move after boxing out in order to go out of bounds to become the inbounder. But he cuts his jump short as Gordon beats him there and flips it to PJ as he is landing.  In that nanosecond PJ didn't flip the mental switch to being a ball handler (he shouldn't be handling the ball there anyway!) and looked at the inbounded ball as it bounced off the floor and raised his hands.


Quite obvious what PJ's thought process was there.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 24, 2019, 06:06:13 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on January 24, 2019, 02:32:35 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 24, 2019, 04:37:30 AM
This game was way too fast for Enes. He played exactly the right amount .

You think you beat the Rockets by playing a third-rate version of their game? Of course not. Huge advantdage to be seized with Capela out.

But thats why we haven't won a game since anybody can remember , and why we have the second worst record in the league.

Mission accomplished. And if that's not the mission, it means Fiz may be the worst coach in franchise history.

Yeah, that game had 25-20 written all over it for EK.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 24, 2019, 06:08:58 PM
Couldnt help ut think of Frank today when listening on NBA Radio:

"Guys got to be able to play.  Teams draft a 6-4 guy with a 6-9 wingspan.......GREAT.....but can the dude play???"

No wingspan on Jimmer

Just fucking points.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 24, 2019, 06:15:24 PM
Vonleh didn't even pick up the ball right away.  Just a weird weird play.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 24, 2019, 06:16:16 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 24, 2019, 06:08:58 PM

No wingspan on Jimmer


No defense from Jimmer
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 24, 2019, 06:16:48 PM
Reggie Jackson is an immature doofus,
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 24, 2019, 06:20:52 PM
The Knicks have made Tim Hardaway Jr. and Courtney Lee available via trade in advance of the N.B.A.’s Feb. 7 trade deadline, according to three people familiar with the team’s stance. - NY Times

Quote from: Kam on January 24, 2019, 02:06:29 AM
Next couple weeks will be rough.  Constant trade rumors.  Hopefully we do something to clear space and air out the stink of these ill-fitting parts.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 24, 2019, 06:34:58 PM
Got to move one of them.

Trier says Tim was supposed to switch on to Gordon, instead of Knix giving up a wide open 3 walk up 3.  Tim not so happy about that going public.  Wouldn't be surprising if there is some tension between those two, as nobody Trier has taken on a lot of Tim's role of iso-ing and scoring from the wing. 

Oladipo is done for the year.
Oladeepshit for IND.
A shame.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 24, 2019, 07:56:23 PM
If we could package Lee with an attractive contract like a Lance or a Kanter we could take back a guy who will stay on our books next year as long as that number is smaller than Lee's 13mil.

For example Lee and Lance combine to make $19.3 mil this season.
Just for giggles: Tyreke Evans and Doug McDermott combine to make the same salary

But next season, if Evans walks, we have Doug on the books at his 7mil figure rather than Lee at 13
Doug's contract is one year longer than Lee's so we get some relief next year and the Pacers get relief in two years.

Not saying this would be a realistic trade.   But it represents the kind of trade we could make without necessarily attaching a desired asset.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 24, 2019, 08:52:14 PM
The discontent is rearing some more of its head.

Kanter continues to hurt the value of his next contract.

Timmy and Trier are starting to publicly but heads. It’s not surprising now that Trier is starting to regularly out perform Timmy. I don’t think Tim has the juice Tim thinks he does. He should have worked to get his shooting over .400
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 24, 2019, 09:13:04 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 24, 2019, 08:52:14 PM


Kanter continues to hurt the value of his next contract.



You've got it completely backwards. Kanter isn't affecting the value of his next contract. The Knicks have continued to hurt the value of anything they could have gotten in return for him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on January 24, 2019, 09:16:55 PM
trade Hardaway, EK and Lee to anyone who will reduce our cap next next year.

none of them are worth their salaries.

all of them could help a team trying to win.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 24, 2019, 10:05:05 PM
I think if you deal THJ you can keep Courtney

Let's hear some Hardaway deals.  Must have #1 attached, but can be heavily protected.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 24, 2019, 10:14:43 PM
Nice night for Satoransky vs GSW

Wiz had it a 2 point game with 5 left, then went cold.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 24, 2019, 10:19:18 PM
Oooooooooo

GS -9 was the number - and Curry held the ball last 12 seconds...... win by 8

Class.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 24, 2019, 10:21:45 PM
Sato a 49/40/82 shooter this year, about in line with career

3-1 assists to turnovers.  (10-2 tonight)
Title: LES IS ALWAYS RIGHT!
Post by: carlos123 on January 24, 2019, 10:27:00 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on January 24, 2019, 09:13:04 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 24, 2019, 08:52:14 PM


Kanter continues to hurt the value of his next contract.



You've got it completely backwards. Kanter isn't affecting the value of his next contract. The Knicks have continued to hurt the value of anything they could have gotten in return for him.

You the man!

Always right about Enes, and our coach.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 24, 2019, 10:50:26 PM
Youse guys r morons.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 24, 2019, 10:50:59 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 24, 2019, 06:16:16 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 24, 2019, 06:08:58 PM

No wingspan on Jimmer


No defense from Jimmer

Just a bunch of steals
Title: Kam(s)ter
Post by: carlos123 on January 24, 2019, 11:25:22 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 24, 2019, 10:50:26 PM
Youse guys r morons.

You seem desperate. Is Recep putting more pressure on you?

Listen, if you fear for your life maybe you should apply for asylum in ... lemme think ... how ‘bout Russia?
Title: Disparate not desparate
Post by: Kam on January 24, 2019, 11:34:23 PM
Just like this dog here, Carloss iz bein a bit of  a dick

(https://i.forfun.com/jqot0rdi.jpeg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 24, 2019, 11:39:59 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 24, 2019, 10:50:59 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 24, 2019, 06:16:16 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 24, 2019, 06:08:58 PM

No wingspan on Jimmer


No defense from Jimmer

Just a bunch of steals

Oh is he pickin pockets in China?  A league not renowned for guard play.

Are you watching the games?  Does he prevent anyone from scoring?

Touting steals as a defensive metric is kinda like counting passes as an offensive metric.

Frank makes a lot of passes.  Doesn't mean he is an offensive wiz.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 25, 2019, 12:16:33 AM
I think he was referring to whatever Jimmer banked on his rookie contract. It was very disappointing, but I wouldn’t go so far as to call it theft.

There is no hurry to trade Kanter since he’s gone in May.

I don’t get the sense that anyone would actually take Tim.
Title: Eastern Conference Frontcourt Voting Results
Post by: Kam on January 25, 2019, 02:50:34 AM
____Player ______  Player Votes _____Player Rank

Kevin Knox                               2                         41
Enes Kanter                              1                         57
Mario Hezonja                           1                         57
Noah Vonleh                             1                         57
Mitch Robinson                         1                         57
Lance Thomas                          1                         57
Luke Kornet                              0                        88
Isiaih Hicks                               0                        88
Kristaps Porizontal                     0                        88

https://ak-static.cms.nba.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/46/2019/01/2019-Eastern-Conference-Frontcourt-NBA-All-Star-Starter-Voting-Results.pdf (https://ak-static.cms.nba.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/46/2019/01/2019-Eastern-Conference-Frontcourt-NBA-All-Star-Starter-Voting-Results.pdf)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 25, 2019, 02:54:06 AM
This makes me think players can vote for themselves.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 25, 2019, 03:12:28 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 25, 2019, 02:54:06 AM
This makes me think players can vote for themselves.

Players will be able to complete one ballot, featuring three frontcourt players and two guards from both the Eastern Conference and the Western Conference.  Players may vote for their teammates or themselves.  [/b]
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 25, 2019, 05:03:29 AM
Thanks. It figures.

Timmy and Burke to Charlotte for Marvin Williams and Frank Kaminski

It saves us about 3.5 mil next year if we let Kamo walk getting us north of 30 mil under the cap. It also gets us a real vet in the frontcourt.

Kornet Robinson Kaminski Kanter
Vonleh Williams KP
Knox Mario Lance
Dotson Trier Lee
Mudiay Ntilikina

 Next year

KP Robinson   
Williams
Knox
Dotson Lee
Frank Trier

Looking to re-sign Kornet, Vonleh, and maybe Mario.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on January 25, 2019, 08:05:53 AM
Quote from: Kam on January 24, 2019, 11:39:59 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 24, 2019, 10:50:59 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 24, 2019, 06:16:16 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 24, 2019, 06:08:58 PM

No wingspan on Jimmer


No defense from Jimmer

Just a bunch of steals

Oh is he pickin pockets in China?  A league not renowned for guard play.

Are you watching the games?  Does he prevent anyone from scoring?

Too easy to dunk Kid, especially when he's touting Jimmer.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 25, 2019, 08:41:12 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 25, 2019, 12:16:33 AM
I think he was referring to whatever Jimmer banked on his rookie contract.

Yes.   That's it, exactly.

Meanwhile multiple teams looking at Jimmer for their stretch run.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 25, 2019, 10:05:13 AM
Sure, the Nanjing Monkey Kings, Liaoning Flying Leopards and the Fujian Sturgeons are reportedly all interested in Jimmer.  But the Shanghai Sharks won't let him go ...

Btw, JimJam's team is in 9th place, just one game over .500

Some guy named Kyle Fogg just dropped 60 the other day.
Pierre Jackson leading the CBA in scoring with 39.8.  He's also 3rd in assists with 9.3.  + 6 boards.  His team also has Thomas Robinson and is in dead last.

Darius Adams 36.7 & 8.2 assists.
I think Jimmer has a 0.056% chance of getting an NBA invite this season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 25, 2019, 12:10:52 PM
I heard he was getting feelers from Adelaide, until they watched tape and came to their senses.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 25, 2019, 02:49:48 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 25, 2019, 10:05:13 AM


Btw, JimJam's team is in 9th place, just one game over .500


Thanks for the update

Quote
I think Jimmer has a 0.056% chance of getting an NBA invite this season.

Hearing Orlando and others are interested.  If you are giving those odds I am in for a buck.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 25, 2019, 03:20:16 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on January 24, 2019, 09:13:04 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 24, 2019, 08:52:14 PM


Kanter continues to hurt the value of his next contract.



You've got it completely backwards. Kanter isn't affecting the value of his next contract. The Knicks have continued to hurt the value of anything they could have gotten in return for him.

I disagree with this idea about diminished value. Kanter has shown what he can do this year. Any team that has paid attention understands that. But I'm irritated by how they're dealing with a guy who has abilities — and what other players might discern from that. There was a report, for instance, that K was told he would start against Houston. And then never saw any action.

If true, that ain't good.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 25, 2019, 03:26:18 PM
Tail waggin the dog and fools petting the tail
Title: Mudiay out - 2 weeks
Post by: Kam on January 25, 2019, 05:39:36 PM
with a shoulder

The conspiracy theorist in me asks:

is this a preventive measure to make sure he doesn't get seriously hurt before the deadline?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 25, 2019, 07:46:59 PM
We shall see

Get ready to be pissed off that Frank doesnt get the majority of minutes
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 25, 2019, 07:47:24 PM
The first five shots for us were all by Noah (James Harden) Vonleh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 25, 2019, 07:51:17 PM
The only time Lance touched the ball on offense was when he stole the ball and passed it.
Title: Frank vs D'angelo
Post by: Kam on January 25, 2019, 08:03:38 PM
4 points 4 assists 1 rebound for Franc
0 points 1 assist 1 rebound 2 Turnovers for D'angelo
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 25, 2019, 08:09:39 PM
Good start

Can't foul.

As Dangelo scores v Burke...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 25, 2019, 09:00:32 PM
Big nights cooking for Satoransky and Rivers
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 25, 2019, 09:03:45 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 25, 2019, 08:09:39 PM
Good start

Can't foul.

As Dangelo scores v Burke...

2 more fouls in 4 more minutes (4 in 12 overall)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 25, 2019, 10:03:59 PM
Last 2 minutes of Knick games are always fun
Title: Kam(s)ter's tail waggin' his doggie
Post by: carlos123 on January 25, 2019, 10:34:36 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 25, 2019, 03:26:18 PM

(https://i.forfun.com/jqot0rdi.jpeg)

Tail waggin the dog and fools petting the tail


got a nice garden view
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on January 25, 2019, 10:35:56 PM
One of the most real & best press conference I've heard right there from Fiz.

Props due.

That's why he's a coach for us.

Didn't throw Kanter under the bus, but said things are the way they are and didn't hide.

Also bigged up Frank for those thinking he's against him.

Great response referring to Philly, Denver and the Nets as to understanding growth and pains as way of building resilience.

#like
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 25, 2019, 11:56:41 PM
Quote

That's why he's a coach for us...

He's a coach for us cause he's like a missile headed straight down to rhe center of the earth.

Worst ever! Stunningly inept. He's incredible.

Hence, best ever.

Gonna bring us to Zion, I can feel it!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on January 26, 2019, 01:10:28 AM
agree with lester the molester.

disaster written all over it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 26, 2019, 03:26:35 AM
We only had two functional frontcourt players tonight. It might be time to call up Hicks.

Ed Davis was a beast. As was Pinson. He’s one to keep track of in the off-season.

Vonleh got off to a good start, but got gassed. I can easily see him hitting 30 at some point this season, especially if Frank can avoid fouls long enough to stay on the floor with him.

Hardaway is regressing defensively. It likely has something to do with the plantar fasciitis. We won’t be able to trade him and we might be best off shutting him down. Would explain the recent shooting as well.

Burke helped make his case as a trade sweetener that might help us do something without involving picks or our developing youth.

Russell & Trier are about a wash.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 26, 2019, 07:23:23 AM
Wonder if Mud hurt his shoulder pushing off on someone to get a paint shot off. 

Otherwise, just one month to plan something Big for Jimmer's 30th birthday.  Scola's on his team, and he's coming up on 40 39 in a few months.  Still gooning and chumping fools.  I'm casually glancing at a SH Sharks game and after a made basket, Scola gets the inbounds, lumbers up court and it's 2-on-4 so he shoots a straightaway 3.  Odd.  It kicks around the rim a bunch and drops through.

Sharks also have the very tall Max Zhang who was briefly on some NBA bench.  Xinjiang his Haddadi,  who went for something like 27 & 25.  Like an Iranian Kanter (at least in China).

At least what I'm seeing it's not the same put-the-ball-in- Jimmer's-hands-every-time offense.  Jim Jam also seems rather off in this game (1st half v. Xinjiang).  A somewhat subdued 28 points for JimJam, who hit a key late 3, but then was upset his team never got him another shot in the final 20 secs.

The CBA is really poor hoops though.  Lot of terrible turnover that would have me shaking my head in my regular weekly games.  Dumb fouls.  Lackadaisical D.  Even for the Jimmers, Jamaal Franklins, Pierre Jax, Darius Adams guys who dominate, it's still a proving ground for bad habits on both ends.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 26, 2019, 08:53:46 AM
I think more Bigs should emulate Ed Davis.  Just plays a simple smart game.  Set a solid pick and head rimwards.  Find an open spot and camp out ready.  Look for an open line and crash the boards.  He puts pressure on the other team by just getting into the right position.  Really just basic solid old-fashioned PF work.  Mitch could do watching some Ed Davis tape.

I was surprised that POR let him go instead of paying relatively small money.  Apparently he's a terrific teammate too -- there was an article a month back saying how everyone loves him from all his stops, I think he's godfather to a Lillard kid, etc.  I like Napier too, but he's a scorer and non-defender and POR's starting guards are similar.  Both good cheap pickups by BKY.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 26, 2019, 11:03:07 AM
Well, whaddayaknow -- Knix were on Chinese Tv again, so I caught a full game replay in one hour.  And not like those poorly edited, now-move-forward-in-the-action excise job MSG shows. 

Burks and Napier rather similar players.
Knix had trouble with Nape's speed.

Terrible 1st half for Tangelo.  Capped by getting a T from the bench.
Then to start the 3Q looked like he threw a pass to the official.  I wonder about his focus.

I never heard of Pinson, but he had a nice impact.  Kept Nets in it the 1st half.

Datsun looked detached.  Where's the energy?
Why didn't Courtly get all of Datsun's minutes?

Nets had 4 bench players in double figures!

Damn, Ed Davis finished with 17 & 16 (7 O-boards).  Sure pays to make yourself available and in position to get things done.  His FT's looks like he's about to unleash a Noah tornado though.

Knox had a decent 1Q and then disappeared. 

11 3's is way too many for Vonleh.  Nets played off him all game outside.  he could have taken another 8.  But as Clyde likes to say, 'Sometimes you're open for a reason.'

A nothing game from Tim.  And Franc.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 26, 2019, 12:17:00 PM
Saw part of the game. Grim. Hate to get your ass kicked by the Nets.

Feels like Knicks now spiraling in wrong direction. If there's a right way and a wrong way to lose, this is the latter.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 26, 2019, 01:55:11 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 26, 2019, 11:03:07 AM

A nothing game from Tim.  And Franc.

Actually Franc had a very lovely, glimpse of the future, first quarter.

https://twitter.com/KnickFilmSchool/status/1088965044946255872 (https://twitter.com/KnickFilmSchool/status/1088965044946255872)

https://twitter.com/KnickFilmSchool/status/1088963664877678592 (https://twitter.com/KnickFilmSchool/status/1088963664877678592)

https://twitter.com/KnickFilmSchool/status/1088962682924027904 (https://twitter.com/KnickFilmSchool/status/1088962682924027904)

Disclaimer: I didn't watch anything after the first quarter as I had a birthday party to go to, and I know how these things end.


*** I'm going to say this for the last time. This boy is going to have a fine career, with significant roles on winning teams — no doubt whatsoever — even if the odds keep going down that he's going to have it here.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 26, 2019, 02:21:05 PM
Franc had some decent plays here and there, but picked up too many minor fouls, was tentative with his shot (front-rimmed an open 8 footer; clanked a wide-open 3).  He barely played the middle quarters when Burke got burn.  And in the 4Q Franc didn't do much (except minor fouls).

I kind of like Franc, even if I sometimes compare him to Darrell Walker.
But he has to expand his offense significantly.  It's not even necessarily about scoring.  He needs to be able to run the team.  But he can't be afraid to shoot or drive.  And for now, his D is overrated.  He puts in long-armed effort but fouls too much.

Is Franc going to become an NBA starting PG?
Hope so, but I'd guess he's 3 or 4 years away from that.
A definite issue for NYK, and one of the reasons Mudman was brought in.
Title: I forget, was that his 12th or 16th career start at PG? Birdboxers All Over...
Post by: lesterluv on January 26, 2019, 03:59:22 PM
decent plays here and there.
D'overrated.
lol.

When I checked out, D. Russel who has been on a tear was invisible, and the Knicks were right in it. That's what matters.

He front-rimmed this. He la'la'd that.
Apply the same scrutiny to the 9 Knox clanked. Or the 12 out of 14 Hardaway clanked.

We all know what Frank needs to do.
He's gonna do it.

If we don't have the time or the plan, there are plenty of coaches who are whetting their lips for the opportunity.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 26, 2019, 04:05:32 PM
so have we watched 30,000 or 40,000 THJ clanks as he "developed"
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 26, 2019, 05:06:25 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 26, 2019, 02:21:05 PM

Is Franc going to become an NBA starting PG?
Hope so, but I'd guess he's 3 or 4 years away from that.


*Shooting - Well below average for a PG
*Driving      - Kinda just average           
*Ball handling - Average at best
*Passing      -Average
*Defense     -Good against rookies and young players. Average vs veterans.



Long way to go to be a starting PG


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 26, 2019, 06:33:33 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 26, 2019, 05:06:25 PM



*Defense     -Good against rookies and young players. Average vs veterans.




It's like you have an ongoing internal battle to outstupid whatever your previous statement was.
Title: Coach
Post by: carlos123 on January 26, 2019, 07:51:02 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on January 26, 2019, 06:33:33 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 26, 2019, 05:06:25 PM


*Defense     -Good against rookies and young players. Average vs veterans.



It's like you have an ongoing internal battle to outstupid whatever your previous statement was.

I want Les to coach the New York Knicks.

Kam(s)ter could be an assistant IF:
- Moderates his bong use.
- Breaks free of his Recep chains.

C'mon Les, wouldn't you enjoy being Kam(s)ter's boss? After all, he used to like Frank. Lately, it's just too much weed and too much Recep, but there's hope there, I think.

(https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/news/2019/01/14/TELEMMGLPICT000185508223_trans_NvBQzQNjv4BqyuLFFzXshuGqnr8zPdDWXiTUh73-1IAIBaONvUINpkg.jpeg?imwidth=450)
RECEP AND SOME FRIENDS ...
(https://www.tccb.gov.tr/assets/resim/album/konuk/2017/k-20171006-venezuella-30-yemek.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 26, 2019, 10:30:45 PM
Noah can still play

Gettin it done in win vs Pacers tonight
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 26, 2019, 11:44:03 PM
Looked like Tangelo wasn't focused at all.
Once Franc put token backcourt pressure on Russell, who responded by dribbling the ball off his foot.  He retrieved the ball and hurried to get across midcourt in time.  Passed to another Net, got the ball back right away and quickly jacked a 3 that barely grazed the rim.  Did I mention when he picked up his dribble near midcourt, turned and passed the ball to the ref?

Tangelo failed to score much because he picked up a few careless fouls that sent him to the bench.  His own lackluster D prevented him form scoring.

Franc's effort on D is usually better than the results.
Also, that was a game where Franc should have gotten lots of minutes, but his own unnecessary fouls limited his minutes.

As for Tim, I try not to be too negative while he's slumping.  Not a player, contract, nor game I like -- but I've probably made that clear enough over the years.  Glad to see the Knix are finally willing to move him.  Probably won't happen, since he's overpaid, his defense is poor, he's erratic even when not slumping, and the SG position has firmed up leaguewide the past few years.  At least after months of subpar play, he's probably due for a hot streak soon.

Knox (like Trier and Mitch) is a rook.  I'll accept inconsistency and admire the flashes.  The NBA schedule is a huge travel-and-play grind against Men.  Overall, I'd like to see Knox's motor rev higher and he needs to clue in on D.  We do have a team with huge playing time flux and no quality PG play, which doesn't help any rooks.  While I like Knox, he's probably earning around a C grade so far this season. (maybe something like 1Q = B+ and D's for the other 3 quarters)

Concerning that Franc's numbers across the board are almost identical to last year.  Actually they're marginally down in every category.
If Knox repeats his rook year in his second season, I'll start getting worried about him too.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 27, 2019, 02:16:27 AM
I can’t remember any NBA player getting over plantar fasciitis while still out there playing. Fortunately the tank and our depth at SG and guard in general mean it’s not hard to at least limit Tim’ minutes going forward. If there was a run to consider, the wise move would have been to shut him down till the condition improved. As it is, he’ll be shooting and defending as he does.

The thing I am most concerned with about Frank is his one or two late clock throw away passes he seems to have every game. Those tend to be momentum killing plays. I’d rather he jack up a prayer in those situations than force the ill advised pass.

The shot making will come. The shot getting has already advanced dramatically in a season and a half.

The big question surrounding all our youth is will the Knicks’ training program succeed building power and stamina on young skinny frames? If so we have the basis for a projectable core. If not, our young guys are a lot closer to their ceilings, at least for these contracts, than I’d like.

Trier, Dot, Mario, Mudiay, and Vonleh have about the right amount of muscle, Frank, Knox, Mitch, and Kornet still need to thicken up. All of them need to up their stamina. KP is his own set of question marks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 27, 2019, 05:35:57 AM
I'll look for some Tim deals.

I thought DET could use an injection of anything and especially distance shooting.  Only thing bad is that Bullock is contributing exactly what Tim is ... except at just $2.5M.  And better defense.  Bullock must be one of the lowest paid starters in the NBofA.  [dang, Vonleh is just $1.7M!]

Only DET deal I can really find is Leuer ($10M/$9.5M next year) and  Stan Johnson ($4m) for Tim.  Half of Tim's next year salary would go to Leuer, so it's only half-useful at cap clearing.  We would get a look at young defender Stan John.  He'll become an RFA with a $5.3M qualifying offer.  But then you either let him go or pay him and likely lose almost all the cap space savings from Tim. 

Other complication is DET's cap is bad so they'd want to toss in Jose to make the money match, but Knix don't have that may roster spots.  Plus DET would be degrading their defense.  And might not see Tim as much of an improvement over Bullock.  They might as well keep their defenders in place (Bullock starting and Stan John off the bench), and hope that Kennard can come through as their sharp shooter.  Seems a better path than hoping Tim de-erraticizes . . .

Leuer + GRobIII would also work, but then the Knix get very little for Tim and only half the cap space we'd want (open $8M up).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 27, 2019, 05:41:40 AM
Knix might have to throw in Burke or Datsun to move Tim for genuine cap relief.

Here's a list of all contracts:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/players.html
You can see the ending deals just by going down the 2nd column and seeing which players have no salary listed for 2019-20.  Helps that it starts with the largest salaries on down ...
You can sort by teams too.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 27, 2019, 11:38:39 AM
Knicks decided on drafting Mtlikina after seeing him drop 30+ in a  Euro game.

Sort of like if we signed Jimmer for 3-27 after seeing him score 50 in China, no?

Face it - they thought they were getting a guy who could score and defend.  A Conley.

Monk or Adebayo was the better play.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on January 27, 2019, 12:32:10 PM
 There must be a reason why the subject of a nearly 30-year old "shooting guard "who has already demonstrated that he's not an NBA player keeps popping up here, but I'll be damned if I can figure out why.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 27, 2019, 01:33:05 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 27, 2019, 11:38:39 AM
Knicks decided on drafting Mtlikina after seeing him drop 30+ in a  Euro game.

You got a link to this?
Franc wasn't a scorer in Euroland.
Averaged 10 pts his last year, less before that.


Quote
Monk or Adebayo was the better play.

I'd take Trier over Monk.
Mitchell over either if those two.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on January 27, 2019, 01:35:57 PM
I don't think Burke is part of the plan, but Dotson I kinda like. I'd sacrifice him to move either Courtly or Timmy, because the former isn't useful for us and the pain of the latter's contract outweighs his utility. But I'm not optimistic.


Let's play "Who says no?":

Memphis or Toronto?
Marc Gasol & Ivan Rabb for Jonas Valunciunas, CJ Miles, and two second round picks (Grizz can't take back any more money without ending up in the luxury tax, although they could use Delon Wright. This would be Memphis admitting Gasol has low trade value. Raps would have to convince one of Gasol or Ibaka to come off the bench)

Sacramento or Washington?
Zach Randolph, Iman Shumpert, Kosta Koufos (all expiring) for Otto Porter, Ian Mahinmi and a second round pick (clears >$42 million in cap space for Washington next year, when Wall's contract spikes, and takes them out of the luxury tax this year. Sacto upgrades Shumpert in time for a playoff run, but at a heavy financial price)

San Antonio or Memphis?
Patty Mills, Pau Gasol and Derrick White for Mike Conley and Ivan Rabb (San An rarely makes in-season deals, but Conley-Derozan-Aldridge are all on the same timeline, and Conley just feels like a Pop type player. White is the draw for Memphis, who only have their pick protected top-8 this year and top-6 next year)

Boston or Orlando?
Gordon Hayward and Terry Rozier for Aaron Gordon and DJ Augustin (Boston gets out of the tax and more importantly clarifies the roles going forward for Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum. Marcus Morris gets squeezed, despite an excellent year, but he's a UFA this year. This presumes Boston doesn't want to pay Rozier. Augustin would be an offensive upgrade, and Gordon would be useful as a scorer who didn't need plays run for him. As for Orlando, they'd have to love Rozier as ready to become a Patrick Beverley type starter, but they could think playoffs next year if Hayward improves even slightly)

Philadelphia or New Orleans?
Markelle Fultz, Wilson Chandler and the Miami Heat 2021 unprotected #1 for Nikola Mirotic, Etwaun Moore and a second round pick (NOLA gives up this year, since everyone else knows they aren't making the playoffs, but gives them a roll of the dice for next year in Fultz, either with Davis or as part of post-Davis core with Jrue and Randle or whatever treasure they secure for Davis. The Miami pick is a major trade asset. Philly gets much needed shooting, and perhaps makes themselves the team to beat in the East)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 27, 2019, 04:41:49 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on January 26, 2019, 06:33:33 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 26, 2019, 05:06:25 PM



*Defense     -Good against rookies and young players. Average vs veterans.





It's like you have an ongoing internal battle to outstupid whatever your previous statement was.


You think his defense is good vs the Westbrooks of the world... or the Top 15 PGs for that matter? 

Then you're more stupid than your name would suggest.


--

Frank will get better as he learns how the league has adjusted to him and he adjusts.  So that he defends cleanly vs foul.

In a couple years if Frank continues to develop... all of the incoming rookie classes he will continue to dominate .... and the guys he can't guard right now will get older and Frank will get wiser on how to defend vs them.  Frank could become a member of the All-Defense teams.

But to say he is there now is stupid.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 27, 2019, 08:42:28 PM
Look at Knox

https://nypost.com/2019/01/26/knicks-need-to-hope-fizdale-is-right-as-culture-deteriorates/ (https://nypost.com/2019/01/26/knicks-need-to-hope-fizdale-is-right-as-culture-deteriorates/)

This is NOT good for his development.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 27, 2019, 08:52:15 PM
TRADE




THIS





PLAYER



!!!!!


https://nypost.com/2019/01/26/knicks-need-to-hope-fizdale-is-right-as-culture-deteriorates/ (https://nypost.com/2019/01/26/knicks-need-to-hope-fizdale-is-right-as-culture-deteriorates/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 27, 2019, 10:15:19 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 27, 2019, 08:42:28 PM
Look at Knox

https://nypost.com/2019/01/26/knicks-need-to-hope-fizdale-is-right-as-culture-deteriorates/ (https://nypost.com/2019/01/26/knicks-need-to-hope-fizdale-is-right-as-culture-deteriorates/)

This is NOT good for his development.

Are you talking about his posture on the bench?  He's 19.  Are you willing to trade him for bad posture?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 27, 2019, 10:37:17 PM
I missed the game tonight vs Miami.  Lookin at the box... what happened to Noah Vonleh?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on January 27, 2019, 10:42:59 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 27, 2019, 08:52:15 PM
TRADE




THIS





PLAYER



!!!!!


https://nypost.com/2019/01/26/knicks-need-to-hope-fizdale-is-right-as-culture-deteriorates/ (https://nypost.com/2019/01/26/knicks-need-to-hope-fizdale-is-right-as-culture-deteriorates/)

Jimmer and Berman - that's quite the dynamic duo
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 27, 2019, 10:51:56 PM
https://twitter.com/BR_NBA/status/1089551480368103425 (https://twitter.com/BR_NBA/status/1089551480368103425)

yyyeppp
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 27, 2019, 11:30:17 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 27, 2019, 10:15:19 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 27, 2019, 08:42:28 PM
Look at Knox

https://nypost.com/2019/01/26/knicks-need-to-hope-fizdale-is-right-as-culture-deteriorates/ (https://nypost.com/2019/01/26/knicks-need-to-hope-fizdale-is-right-as-culture-deteriorates/)

This is NOT good for his development.

Are you talking about his posture on the bench?  He's 19.  Are you willing to trade him for bad posture?

Where did I say trade him?

Stop the tank.  Losing leaves scars.  Have some class, Knicks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on January 28, 2019, 12:00:03 AM
if you are 26 the to Knicks management you are too old..

that is completely nuts.

i guess LeBron , KD, Curry etc are just too old.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 28, 2019, 12:32:05 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 27, 2019, 11:30:17 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 27, 2019, 10:15:19 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 27, 2019, 08:42:28 PM
Look at Knox

https://nypost.com/2019/01/26/knicks-need-to-hope-fizdale-is-right-as-culture-deteriorates/ (https://nypost.com/2019/01/26/knicks-need-to-hope-fizdale-is-right-as-culture-deteriorates/)

This is NOT good for his development.

Are you talking about his posture on the bench?  He's 19.  Are you willing to trade him for bad posture?

Where did I say trade him?

Stop the tank.  Losing leaves scars.  Have some class, Knicks.
  when you wrote:

TRADE




THIS





PLAYER



!!!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 28, 2019, 01:16:41 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on January 27, 2019, 01:35:57 PM
Let's play "Who says no?":

Memphis or Toronto?
Marc Gasol & Ivan Rabb for Jonas Valunciunas, CJ Miles, and two second round picks

Does TOR really want to tinker when things are going well.
Also it depletes their bench some, which hasn't been as strong as last year.  Memf gives up an aging local hero for not much.  Fans would kill them.  I don't think ether team does that.


Quote
Sacramento or Washington?
Zach Randolph, Iman Shumpert, Kosta Koufos (all expiring) for Otto Porter, Ian Mahinmi and a second round pick

How good is Porter?  Can't Hield do much of what Porter does?  Or maybe Hield + Shump can. Taking on Mahinmi is a big price to get an overpaid Porter.  It's like paying Porter $40M!  I'd say WASh would do it, and SACto wouldn't.  They can wait.


Quote
San Antonio or Memphis?
Patty Mills, Pau Gasol and Derrick White for Mike Conley and Ivan Rabb (

Nice deal for SAS.  What's the point for MEMf?  A Sell Low, No Pay Off for MemF.  They could find something better.  I'd take say Reg Jax, Stan John and Leuer for Conley.  And even that might be iffy.  Or say Rubio, Favors, etc (I didn't look up salaries, but something could be matched)

Quote
Boston or Orlando?
Gordon Hayward and Terry Rozier for Aaron Gordon and DJ Augustin (Boston gets out of the tax and more importantly clarifies the roles going forward for Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum.

Hard for me to evaluate since I don't like A. Gordon much.
Not sure either team does it, as ORL likes their Gordon.
Sounds like a panic move for BOS.


Philadelphia or New Orleans?
Quote
Markelle Fultz, Wilson Chandler and the Miami Heat 2021 unprotected #1 for Nikola Mirotic, Etwaun Moore and a second round pick

Is that the plan to lose Davis?
Because all it takes is for Fultz to continue to have his faults.
And the MIA pick fall around 10th and become a mediocre player or even a Knox?Franc type project.  And then you've gutted your thin team.  And Davis goes elsewhere.  At least now he has some genuine players on his side, just a weak bench and poor health.  Easier to imagine fllling in the bench with some creative pickups, rather than losing two borderline starters for the enigma of Fultz and a draft pick.
Great deal for PHI.

The BOS-ORL trade is the only really interesting one.
PHI & SAS trades appear unbalanced.
TOR & SAC trades don't seem to accomplish enough.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 28, 2019, 12:09:15 PM
My guess is Davis would like to play with (a fixed) Fultz.....

But I think he leaves anyway
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 28, 2019, 12:16:52 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 28, 2019, 12:09:15 PM
My guess is Davis would like to play with (a fixed) Fultz.....

But I think he leaves anyway

Davis wants out!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 28, 2019, 01:16:28 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 28, 2019, 12:09:15 PM
My guess is Davis would like to play with (a fixed) Fultz.....
But I think he leaves anyway

JRue also seems better alongside another PG, so he can do his combo G routine and play defense and not have to orchestrate fulltime (his weak spot).  Needless to say, a quality Fultz would be good for them.

While everyone gushes over Davis, NO tends to lose close games because he isn't that good in the clutch.  And takes terrible last second shots.  Something he needs to work on, or they need someone else to step up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 28, 2019, 01:59:20 PM
So it's news now that Davis wants out ...

I was going to concoct a crazy trade of Mirotic, Sol Hill and Wes Johnson for . . . the return of Chris Paul.  He's owed a ridiculous amount of money and red lights pop up on his dashboard frequently.  But he could add focus and direction.  HOU gets out from his mammoth contract, and adds another sharpshooter around Harden, and a warm body defender in Hill.
Chris Paul - JRue - ETwuan - Randle - Davis
Be fun.

They'd still have their crappy bench.
Elfrid, Okafor, Frazier, Diallo.

NOPe never could construct a bench.  Wasted money on Sol Hill -- brought in iffy players like Elfrid, Wes John and Ian Clark who at least makes little.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 28, 2019, 03:09:12 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 27, 2019, 11:30:17 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 27, 2019, 10:15:19 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 27, 2019, 08:42:28 PM
Look at Knox

https://nypost.com/2019/01/26/knicks-need-to-hope-fizdale-is-right-as-culture-deteriorates/ (https://nypost.com/2019/01/26/knicks-need-to-hope-fizdale-is-right-as-culture-deteriorates/)

This is NOT good for his development.

Are you talking about his posture on the bench?  He's 19.  Are you willing to trade him for bad posture?

Where did I say trade him?

Stop the tank.  Losing leaves scars.  Have some class, Knicks.

Totally agree. This has been my point with the (colossal) mishandling of Kanter.

Take minutes from Kanter to give the younger guys more burn. Okay. But to pin him to the bench? Embarrassing. And dispiriting.

This isn't Noah, with all the issues he brought to the table. Kanter gives strong effort every fucking game. He wanted to be here. It doesn't take deep analysis to realize that that kind of energy could exert a strong influence on others guys  — lose or win, you play 100%.

Now, especially the last month or two, we're not just losing games — we're playing like losers. It's an unmistakable shift from the first months of the season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 28, 2019, 04:39:08 PM
Because Fiz is a fraud - or diabolically dead set on the #1 draft odds, which is flat-out stupid as 1-3 are basically the same, not much better than 4, and not nearly as good as they used to be for super losers in any case.

Young guys don't evolve by just dumping on more minutes anyway. They grow by being part of a winning system and culture. One in which vets play a necessary role. All anyone is learning here is how to be a loser for life.

** and we're gonna get slapped soon anyway if this keeps up ... just way too blatant. League no like, even if they prob wouldn't mind us grabbing something good in the draft.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 28, 2019, 04:57:13 PM
Number 6, for example, has a chunky 9% percent shot at top spot, while Number 1 bad is only 14%.

***That makes Porzingis kind of attractive in pre-deadline NY-NO trade for Davis, btw, as he won't really play and thus keep NO from hitting 6, easily done unless Memphis tanks harder without Conley or Gasol.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jerrya on January 28, 2019, 06:00:18 PM
Well I think I'm taking the year off...watching this team is painful.  Look who is in charge, we have Clueless Steve Mills running the organization.  How about the Nets. They  had less assets than us and somehow have   more talented team.   Marks is a much better GM than Perry. Our coach is awful, no game plan, no preparation, he is all talk and I'm tired of it already. We are doomed. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 28, 2019, 06:13:46 PM
All eggs in top FA and top draft pick basket - as cure all - and we only have 29 mil.  NO loyalty to any player except the last 3 number ones.

Sad.  The Princeton boys making their U look putrid. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on January 28, 2019, 06:26:16 PM
davis said he wants to go to a winning team why is NY being talked about?

trading KP who actually wants to be there is a complete joke.

of course the team is a complete joke where 26 is the new 40.
.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on January 28, 2019, 07:26:30 PM
https://twitter.com/KnickFilmSchool/status/1090022918183178240

https://twitter.com/BleacherReport/status/1089984661013626887

https://twitter.com/NYKNYG123/status/1089907130994442240

https://twitter.com/JCMacriNBA/status/1090036969365819394
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on January 28, 2019, 07:31:24 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on January 28, 2019, 04:39:08 PM
Because Fiz is a fraud - or diabolically dead set on the #1 draft odds, which is flat-out stupid as 1-3 are basically the same, not much better than 4, and not nearly as good as they used to be for super losers in any case.

Young guys don't evolve by just dumping on more minutes anyway. They grow by being part of a winning system and culture. One in which vets play a necessary role. All anyone is learning here is how to be a loser for life.

** and we're gonna get slapped soon anyway if this keeps up ... just way too blatant. League no like, even if they prob wouldn't mind us grabbing something good in the draft.

I don't LOVE Fiz, but what did you exactly expect this year?

I predicted something like low 20s for wins. We're below that, so fine, you can go there, but we're not trying to be good. We're in major transition, and fielding a very young team.

The team has been in most games all season, as I can only recall a few stinkers. There were far more of those the last few seasons, to my recollection. Other than Kanter, there seems to be better team cohesion even while losing 9 games in a row.

I'm not sure I get the reason, other than X's and O's for a team that has very low levels of talent, why fans are so crazy against him.

Which vets? Kanter? lol

You mean a player who has no future with the team, barely the NBA, and stats shows causes more harm than good on the floor?

THJ started off well, getting to the line more, and maybe it's the plantar injury, but he's been particularly inefficient since.

Lee also not up to par, so I guess you're thinking of Lance? He's playing now.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on January 28, 2019, 07:38:20 PM
Quote from: Nagel on January 28, 2019, 06:26:16 PM
davis said he wants to go to a winning team why is NY being talked about?

trading KP who actually wants to be there is a complete joke.

of course the team is a complete joke where 26 is the new 40.
.

Lol. Aww...really man? Kanter's age has zip to do with us rebuilding.

You don't mean that seriously, right?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 28, 2019, 07:58:31 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on January 28, 2019, 07:31:24 PM


I don't LOVE Fiz, but what did you exactly expect this year?


Losing basketball,of course. Is that a serious question? But winning culture, accountability, individual and team growth. Defensive and offensive plans.  You lay the foundation. You help the youth grow. Good coach can provide that. We have a guy who talks game...

You clearly don't understand basketball or how teams work if you don't know what you're seeing or should be seeing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 28, 2019, 08:12:01 PM
This is our last best shot at pairing a Top draft pick with KP and KK.  Yes you can win the lotto from anywhere.  But why not ensure your best shot.  Plenty of time to have a feel-good final fifteen games where we show some promise ESPECIALLY if KP plays.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 28, 2019, 08:16:26 PM
Knicks always F*** up and go like 5-5 over their last ten games.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 28, 2019, 08:19:23 PM
Adam Silver isn't gonna punish the New York Knicks for tanking after all these years of other teams tanking. He'd be beheaded on Park Ave. if he took our pick away.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 28, 2019, 08:24:01 PM
That photo may have done more for Knox's game than all of Fiz's coaching....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 28, 2019, 08:37:49 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on January 28, 2019, 07:31:24 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on January 28, 2019, 04:39:08 PM

 vets play a necessary role.


I don't LOVE Fiz, but what did you exactly expect this year?

Which vets? Kanter? lol

You mean a player who has no future with the team, barely the NBA, and stats shows causes more harm than good on the floor?

THJ started off well, getting to the line more, and maybe it's the plantar injury, but he's been particularly inefficient since.

Lee also not up to par, so I guess you're thinking of Lance? He's playing now.

Lance plays because Fiz has a preference for guys who play Defense and for bigs who do multiple things on the floor.

In Mitch case its the lobs and rim protection.
In Luke's case its the threes and the open driving lanes and the occasional blocked shot.
Title: Fizdale's strategy makes sense
Post by: Kam on January 28, 2019, 08:42:50 PM
Fizdale expects more than one season.  And he will be given more than one season. 

Why play guys this year who won't be here next year?

Why not give minutes to the guys you know will be here next year?

Only a shortsighted person (or person-canine hybrid) would play the vets and slow the growth of NEXT years team.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on January 28, 2019, 09:02:04 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on January 28, 2019, 07:58:31 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on January 28, 2019, 07:31:24 PM


I don't LOVE Fiz, but what did you exactly expect this year?


Losing basketball,of course. Is that a serious question? But winning culture, accountability, individual and team growth. Defensive and offensive plans.  You lay the foundation. You help the youth grow. Good coach can provide that. We have a guy who talks game...

You clearly don't understand basketball or how teams work if you don't know what you're seeing or should be seeing.

Defense much improved last two games...so say Clyde and Breen as well.

Oddly enough one of our worst defensive players...a vet...not playing and a few games later the defense improved dramatically.

TBF, Mudiay has been out and you could argue that's someone he gave time to, and there is a correlation there

I think most of the players like him, and respect him. 

Accountability? Doesn't benching various players for periods after giving them chances in the rotation count?

He seemed to speak honestly about why Kanter was benched after Enis constantly complained via social media/the media in ways that some might argue were unprofessional. I suspect Fiz wanted to do it sooner, but enough body of work was provided to justify dropping him

Frank may not be developing how we wanted, but Trier, Robinson, Knox, Vonleh and Mudiay have made strides.

Saying I don't know what basketball is sounds pretty silly though, doesn't it? Come on Les. I'm not going there.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on January 28, 2019, 09:03:33 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 28, 2019, 08:16:26 PM
Knicks always F*** up and go like 5-5 over their last ten games.

Guaranteed
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on January 28, 2019, 09:06:17 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 28, 2019, 08:37:49 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on January 28, 2019, 07:31:24 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on January 28, 2019, 04:39:08 PM

 vets play a necessary role.


I don't LOVE Fiz, but what did you exactly expect this year?

Which vets? Kanter? lol

You mean a player who has no future with the team, barely the NBA, and stats shows causes more harm than good on the floor?

THJ started off well, getting to the line more, and maybe it's the plantar injury, but he's been particularly inefficient since.

Lee also not up to par, so I guess you're thinking of Lance? He's playing now.

Lance plays because Fiz has a preference for guys who play Defense and for bigs who do multiple things on the floor.

In Mitch case its the lobs and rim protection.
In Luke's case its the threes and the open driving lanes and the occasional blocked shot.

Right. That I get.

However wasn't really playing so much when Kornet was healthy and took Kanter's spot.
Title: Re: Fizdale's strategy makes sense
Post by: PrezIke on January 28, 2019, 09:06:39 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 28, 2019, 08:42:50 PM
Fizdale expects more than one season.  And he will be given more than one season. 

Why play guys this year who won't be here next year?

Why not give minutes to the guys you know will be here next year?

Only a shortsighted person (or person-canine hybrid) would play the vets and slow the growth of NEXT years team.

Yep
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 28, 2019, 09:18:28 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on January 28, 2019, 07:31:24 PM

Which vets? Kanter? lol

You mean a player who has no future with the team, barely the NBA, and stats shows causes more harm than good on the floor?


You don't like the guy's game? Cool. But saying Kanter barely has any future in the NBA? That's some simple shit, hyperbole drifting toward incoherence.
Title: Re: Fizdale's strategy makes sense
Post by: elephant on January 28, 2019, 09:22:03 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 28, 2019, 08:42:50 PM
Fizdale expects more than one season.  And he will be given more than one season. 

Why play guys this year who won't be here next year?

Why not give minutes to the guys you know will be here next year?

Only a shortsighted person (or person-canine hybrid) would play the vets and slow the growth of NEXT years team.

Why play guys who won't be here next year? Lesterdog answered that on the previous page:

"Young guys don't evolve by just dumping on more minutes anyway. They grow by being part of a winning system and culture. One in which vets play a necessary role. All anyone is learning here is how to be a loser for life."
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 28, 2019, 09:24:46 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on January 28, 2019, 09:02:04 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on January 28, 2019, 07:58:31 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on January 28, 2019, 07:31:24 PM


I don't LOVE Fiz, but what did you exactly expect this year?


Losing basketball,of course. Is that a serious question? But winning culture, accountability, individual and team growth. Defensive and offensive plans.  You lay the foundation. You help the youth grow. Good coach can provide that. We have a guy who talks game...

You clearly don't understand basketball or how teams work if you don't know what you're seeing or should be seeing.

Defense much improved last two games...so say Clyde and Breen as well.

Oddly enough one of our worst defensive players...a vet...not playing and a few games later the defense improved dramatically.

TBF, Mudiay has been out and you could argue that's someone he gave time to, and there is a correlation there

I think most of the players like him, and respect him. 

Accountability? Doesn't benching various players for periods after giving them chances in the rotation count?

He seemed to speak honestly about why Kanter was benched after Enis constantly complained via social media/the media in ways that some might argue were unprofessional. I suspect Fiz wanted to do it sooner, but enough body of work was provided to justify dropping him

Frank may not be developing how we wanted, but Trier, Robinson, Knox, Vonleh and Mudiay have made strides.

Saying I don't know what basketball is sounds pretty silly though, doesn't it? Come on Les. I'm not going there.


With tonight's loss we are right on track for worst record ever.

With our history, that really takes doing.

I'll stick with everything I said.
Title: Re: Fizdale's strategy makes sense
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 28, 2019, 09:35:24 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 28, 2019, 08:42:50 PM
Fizdale expects more than one season.  And he will be given more than one season. 

Why play guys this year who won't be here next year?

Why not give minutes to the guys you know will be here next year?

Only a shortsighted person (or person-canine hybrid) would play the vets and slow the growth of NEXT years team.

This year's minutes dont make anyone better next year.  Just not how it works

A winning culture doesnt come from losing.  Maybe ONE team can point to that - the Spurs - and they didnt lose for long pre-Duncan.

Fiz says, look at the Nuggets, look at the Sixers, look at the Nets

OK, lets see how far those teams go.

You have to LAND draft picks = not GET high picks.

Curry and Thompson were like 7 and 11.  Giannis was a 15, Brogdon a second rounder.  Demarr, who begot Kawhi.....was a TEN.

Knicks didnt land picks........up til KP. 

Title: PERSON-CANINE HYBRID
Post by: carlos123 on January 28, 2019, 11:19:20 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 28, 2019, 08:42:50 PM
Fizdale expects more than one season.  And he will be given more than one season. 

Why play guys this year who won't be here next year?

Why not give minutes to the guys you know will be here next year?

Only a shortsighted person (or person-canine hybrid) would play the vets and slow the growth of NEXT years team.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ae9Tf6Kme-qB5TNpzSZTi9cvBCPnPRt8yXcUELjJh25HF0llAaTfdX3TjrcfGKsIhAU_qkHXfXzefHPnt7u7-16m63guCoohn-uURpwRFLeop6coV5mG3IRO-IxtWOaZUDvOLLCYzuxffnzB98vSa4m7rfebxcdinTwH728bZ97z0euGHQw4gi6qrmiQ32wx8FK5lHo2FbeTq9boC0_WhXodVb6phQ9OP3Dc1keIYesmX38ASKaS25WFXf3i6q2DwaEIXjBl5IeIUaV36-LQ8CWilWZfcDnd8iiItVgZaFdfK_UP0BZMOVjCTZOmAIkfPG2z_sjdbgkLlKWVocxZhb3WI50OzW38a3F1Y1Wzd513UwbBzUpI2QT1kJTkUHGkbhVJJ6w24Uf6NA22ehYe1wYGN_buwVCeBlkm5bQQPS8IMdTpFyRAfdbU5fDgY81lQQd3FL9v6LMLOMQufW_9HXQSxpv3uhcJMHwxLXWGh4mTL11R1YkZ1iD4WpU_vwsSWvt20yINX6mMyX5enijN8elUT9jbu0ew-DqQKT-3P7Xu5xS4AFKJU3SqC958RezAFRdT_pxChEHDsOuhZW-b7K2oNILt6Nvy72GLv-Xmdu2LkxUHkZl6YnYqFvCfADmOmwzWmFKnmWrO1vf8Pn1oE9bs=w325-h405-no)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on January 28, 2019, 11:31:17 PM
Mud could well be the point the knix have been seeking for two decades. Home nurtured, sorry but he is a must resign. Get him, Trier, KK, and a baller in lotto and things wil be fine in 19. This is a tank, you minimize your chances to win.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on January 28, 2019, 11:40:41 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 28, 2019, 09:18:28 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on January 28, 2019, 07:31:24 PM

Which vets? Kanter? lol

You mean a player who has no future with the team, barely the NBA, and stats shows causes more harm than good on the floor?


You don't like the guy's game? Cool. But saying Kanter barely has any future in the NBA? That's some simple shit, hyperbole drifting toward incoherence.

Sadly, his game is outdated and not useful in the modern NBA. Tell me I'm making that up. I don't think that's exactly crazy talk.

His personality, while our desperate fans and bitter beat writers searching for someone to love or create as a false idol to remind us of Oak eat it up here, is not something that's been terribly endearing to his teammates or coaches as he seems very focused on himself over the rest. He did not leave Utah in such nice ways, and his comments after games have not been helpful, IMHO.

I respect him for his stance regarding Erdogan, and he has some talent on offense, in the paint on the offensive glass, but it's really not enough to warrant much consistent playing time. If it were 1995 then he'd be more valuable, sure.

He cannot defend against athletic teams which in the current NBA leads a player like he to literally be a huge problem against more than a few NBA teams.

How many teams use post players and bigs that aren't highly athletic/long (of which he is neither) or can shoot 3s? I feel bad for him as he's not a lump but things are just different now.

Tell me how useful that is to many NBA teams? He'll get a contract next year, but it won't be more than a role player on a team that has quite a few good defensive players already on the floor and real rim protection.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on January 28, 2019, 11:45:18 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on January 28, 2019, 09:24:46 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on January 28, 2019, 09:02:04 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on January 28, 2019, 07:58:31 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on January 28, 2019, 07:31:24 PM


I don't LOVE Fiz, but what did you exactly expect this year?


Losing basketball,of course. Is that a serious question? But winning culture, accountability, individual and team growth. Defensive and offensive plans.  You lay the foundation. You help the youth grow. Good coach can provide that. We have a guy who talks game...

You clearly don't understand basketball or how teams work if you don't know what you're seeing or should be seeing.

Defense much improved last two games...so say Clyde and Breen as well.

Oddly enough one of our worst defensive players...a vet...not playing and a few games later the defense improved dramatically.

TBF, Mudiay has been out and you could argue that's someone he gave time to, and there is a correlation there

I think most of the players like him, and respect him. 

Accountability? Doesn't benching various players for periods after giving them chances in the rotation count?

He seemed to speak honestly about why Kanter was benched after Enis constantly complained via social media/the media in ways that some might argue were unprofessional. I suspect Fiz wanted to do it sooner, but enough body of work was provided to justify dropping him

Frank may not be developing how we wanted, but Trier, Robinson, Knox, Vonleh and Mudiay have made strides.

Saying I don't know what basketball is sounds pretty silly though, doesn't it? Come on Les. I'm not going there.


With tonight's loss we are right on track for worst record ever.

With our history, that really takes doing.

I'll stick with everything I said.

So the Sixers, Lakers, Nets, etc. all had fantastic records prior to their recent turn arounds?

You sure you wanna stick to this line of reasoning?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on January 29, 2019, 12:34:05 AM
Here's why the Knicks are bidding: https://twitter.com/DragonflyJonez/status/1089985427061264384

(ps BoD fair feedback on the fake trades, but I think NOLA would jump at Fultz and a pick for Miro + Moore, and Philly would have done well as well, especially if they can also finagle Payton out of it...insta depth)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 29, 2019, 01:31:50 AM
Quote from: PrezIke on January 28, 2019, 11:45:18 PM


So the Sixers, Lakers, Nets, etc. all had fantastic records prior to their recent turn arounds?

You sure you wanna stick to this line of reasoning?

I am very sure I want to stick with the line of reasoning I have put in my posts.

I think you need to read them.

I never said we should have a fantastic record, lol, nor a winning one, nor even that we should not have a really bad one. Read.

But for many reasons, your three examples are all awful.

The Nets couldn't tank because they didn't have any picks.
The 76's multi-year "process" is especially stupid these days with the new lottery structure.
The Lakers...well.... LEBRON (jeezus..yeah, replicable, ok)

Oh my, I'm going to sleep.

build a culture...have young ones learn by playing with "old ones" ...LAND picks....add talent...avoid idiotic moves...don't needless antagonize players and come up with a different explanation every f'ing day
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 29, 2019, 01:37:36 AM
Quote from: elephant on January 28, 2019, 09:18:28 PM


You don't like the guy's game? Cool. But saying Kanter barely has any future in the NBA? That's some simple shit, hyperbole drifting toward incoherence.

Yup. That's how I know it's time to go to sleep....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 29, 2019, 02:57:16 AM
If Kanter was a useful player we could not have traded Melo for him. This year, the screwups were hanging on to Baker when his roster spot could have gone to an actual player and overpaying Mario. Otherwise, our moves made sense.

We’re on our 3rd and 4th string PGs and our PF is playing center and our 14th man is playing PF. It’s a sure recipe for ugly losses.

It’s looking like we’ll get a top 5 pick. Nailing that, locking in KP, getting value from the late 2nd round pick, resigning Vonleh and Kornet without breaking the bank are our chief challenges this offseason. Trying for the big time FA is a move that will probably backfire. The market will be really good for smart effective complimentary players who will price themselves off of their current teams.

The games are ugly right now, but they are in line with expectations.

Tank on.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on January 29, 2019, 03:40:54 AM
Knix have had their share of truly bad vacationing type bigs recently but Enes is not one of them.  Fiz had problems with Gasol, slowish bangers  just do not fit his coaching style. I just do not understand or like the lack of respect he shows.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 29, 2019, 04:03:49 AM

Quote
Los Angeles Lakers get:
Anthony Davis


New Orleans Pelicans get:
Brandon Ingram

Lonzo Ball

Kentavious Caldwell-Pope

2020 first-round draft pick
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 29, 2019, 04:31:41 AM
We've been competitive most games.
Everybody has had ops.
A number of players have improved.

Kanter hasn't handled this well.
Burke sat and was quiet.  Lance and Courtly bided their time (yes, they had some health issues).   Lance is starting now.  Kant was complaining when he was coming off the bench and playing 25 mins.

Kant probably lucky he got as many minutes as he did.  Mitch was foul-prone then had B2B minor injuries.  Noah was banished.  Kornet wasn't ready.

Enes isn't as good as he thinks he is.  And the goal is to develop the yute, not help a young vet put up numbers on a bad team to get his next contract.  Kant should take a break, get his body right and be ready when he gets minutes instead of complaining publicly.  Knix have leverage.  Kant doesn't get mins and his value drops and his next contract is less.  Simply, if Kant played acceptable defense, he could be in Knix future plans and starting.  That's on him.

Fizz has been willing to try different combos, bench a guy for weeks, then start him, etc.  For the most part it has worked.  Vonleh and Mud having career seasons (admittedly from a low bar).  Trier and Mitch contributing and looking like genuine NBA bench players.

Knix heading to a Top 6 draft pick.  Fizz isn't a fave of mine, but I like how he's used this season.  Prioritize development.  Give everyone a chance.  See what combos work and such.

I'll be interested to see what the team looks like next year and how Fizz will coach with KZ leading the show. 

This year requires patience.  But I don't see why anyone would want the Knix to have say 5 extra wins at this point.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 29, 2019, 04:47:45 AM
Thank you Bo. You are a poet and a scholar.

Who first posted that LA proposal? It’s not bad.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on January 29, 2019, 08:30:45 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on January 29, 2019, 01:31:50 AM
Quote from: PrezIke on January 28, 2019, 11:45:18 PM


So the Sixers, Lakers, Nets, etc. all had fantastic records prior to their recent turn arounds?

You sure you wanna stick to this line of reasoning?

I am very sure I want to stick with the line of reasoning I have put in my posts.

I think you need to read them.

I never said we should have a fantastic record, lol, nor a winning one, nor even that we should not have a really bad one. Read.

But for many reasons, your three examples are all awful.

The Nets couldn't tank because they didn't have any picks.
The 76's multi-year "process" is especially stupid these days with the new lottery structure.
The Lakers...well.... LEBRON (jeezus..yeah, replicable, ok)

Oh my, I'm going to sleep.

build a culture...have young ones learn by playing with "old ones" ...LAND picks....add talent...avoid idiotic moves...don't needless antagonize players and come up with a different explanation every f'ing day

Les, I am responding to what I read. What am I missing? I can go back again, but I directly responded to things you wrote.

"Accountability," for example.

Was that not what you wrote?

No disrespect, but speaking of reading, where did I write the word "tanking" in that comment about the other teams, or refer to it being about getting a draft pick AT ALL?

I didn't.

I didn't specifically indicate what I meant about losing, but I intended to refer to the process of losing as not necessarily a clear indicator of things going so wrong, as you did imply is a problem you have right now, in so many words in the first post I read and responded to. I am suggesting, as did Fiz after his press conference the other day, that this may be part rather of what it might take to get to becoming good.

How you seem to be dismissing that was what I was directly responding to.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 29, 2019, 09:28:39 AM
Real good stuff, Prez

It is true of Kanter that the game having changed has hurt his stock.

But I dont appreciate those saying the agme has opened up so much also stating teams need to be more defensive minded

Kanter's game could evolve a little bit - and depending on the team he could be a useful starter (for an above .500 outfit). 

GREAT players fit on all 30 clubs.

Kanter is not great.  True.  And we of course dont want to give him a big chunk of our 29 mil.  But that's teh NY Knicks, not the league in total.

I think we see a deal.

I also think we look to deal Burke - and maybe Vonleh

Evan Roberts proposed a deal yesterday where Vonleh and Burke go to Brooklyn and we net a  first rounder.  And he is a Nets fan.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 29, 2019, 10:46:54 AM
Quote from: PrezIke on January 29, 2019, 08:30:45 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on January 29, 2019, 01:31:50 AM
Quote from: PrezIke on January 28, 2019, 11:45:18 PM


So the Sixers, Lakers, Nets, etc. all had fantastic records prior to their recent turn arounds?

You sure you wanna stick to this line of reasoning?

I am very sure I want to stick with the line of reasoning I have put in my posts.

I think you need to read them.

I never said we should have a fantastic record, lol, nor a winning one, nor even that we should not have a really bad one. Read.

But for many reasons, your three examples are all awful.

The Nets couldn't tank because they didn't have any picks.
The 76's multi-year "process" is especially stupid these days with the new lottery structure.
The Lakers...well.... LEBRON (jeezus..yeah, replicable, ok)

Oh my, I'm going to sleep.

build a culture...have young ones learn by playing with "old ones" ...LAND picks....add talent...avoid idiotic moves...don't needless antagonize players and come up with a different explanation every f'ing day

Les, I am responding to what I read. What am I missing? I can go back again, but I directly responded to things you wrote.

"Accountability," for example.

Was that not what you wrote?

No disrespect, but speaking of reading, where did I write the word "tanking" in that comment about the other teams, or refer to it being about getting a draft pick AT ALL?

I didn't.

I didn't specifically indicate what I meant about losing, but I intended to refer to the process of losing as not necessarily a clear indicator of things going so wrong, as you did imply is a problem you have right now, in so many words in the first post I read and responded to. I am suggesting, as did Fiz after his press conference the other day, that this may be part rather of what it might take to get to becoming good.

How you seem to be dismissing that was what I was directly responding to.

No disrespect, but it seems like we are being paid by the word. I made two points in two very short paras in the first post you read and responded to, and I stick by them. They are here:

http://forums.escapefromelba.com/index.php?topic=11.msg82053#msg82053 (http://forums.escapefromelba.com/index.php?topic=11.msg82053#msg82053)

I didn't specifically indicate what I meant about winning system, but I intended to refer to the process of instilling such a culture as necessary to any turnaround, and it is not one that necessarily reflects itself immediately in the record. Yes you can have a losing record, even a terrible record while doing so. It is exactly what Marks & Atkinson have done and now is bearing fruit. But that is not what I see happening here — whatsoever.

And am not writing one more word about this. I'm on a "project rate" not a "word rate." If you still don't understand, talk to my editor. If you still don't agree, well that's fine, we completely disagree.



*** And just how did the Nets build, with all those losses and all those players, along the way, by the way, since you brought them up.

In 2016/2017, the pair’s first season, the most minutes went to two old vets who wouldn’t be there the next year. (actually 5 out of 6 most mins went to oldest players on the club) Did they waste all those minutes and that floor time by not giving it to folks who would be around when they started to win? Should they have started LeVert & Dinwiddie every game? After all, those guys were the future, right? No, they shouldn’t and didn’t, because they knew that the way to grow their young players who would be around later was by teaching the game in the way it is meant to be played and by fielding the best squad they could every game. They did that, and lost 62 btw, but the foundation was being laid.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 29, 2019, 10:52:26 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 29, 2019, 04:47:45 AM
Who first posted that LA proposal? It’s not bad.

It was among a handful of Davis trade ideas on cbssports site.  The others weren't much, but that one is intriguing.

The other interesting idea is Davis for Ben Simmons +.
Simmons played college in Louisiana.  A top player return for NOPe. 
PHI might figure Embiid and Simmons aren't a good pairing.  But PHi would be taking a chance Butler and AD could leave.  And risky to shake thing up mid-season.  Plus, who plays Point?  McConnell is solid, but is he going to guide you through the playoffs?  Butler isn't a PG, but could help facilitate.  Sexier cities to live in than Philly, but it is a good hoops town.  Kind of opens a lot of questions.  But a Simmons for AD swap is intriguing.
Title: Re: Fizdale's strategy makes sense
Post by: Kam on January 29, 2019, 12:03:32 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 28, 2019, 09:22:03 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 28, 2019, 08:42:50 PM
Fizdale expects more than one season.  And he will be given more than one season. 

Why play guys this year who won't be here next year?

Why not give minutes to the guys you know will be here next year?

Only a shortsighted person (or person-canine hybrid) would play the vets and slow the growth of NEXT years team.

Why play guys who won't be here next year? Lesterdog answered that on the previous page:

"Young guys don't evolve by just dumping on more minutes anyway. They grow by being part of a winning system and culture. One in which vets play a necessary role. All anyone is learning here is how to be a loser for life."

This is BULLSHIT.  Look at the NETS this year and what they were last year.  Look at Sacramento.  You lose and take your lumps and you come back stronger.  Not all rookies have the luxury of being dropped into a winning system yet somehow the NBA manages to have different teams become successful over time after going through a losing cycle.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 29, 2019, 12:14:40 PM
LOL, you are so funny. Yes, look at the Nets, per previous post, they are the perfect rebuttal to your drug-addled ranting.

*** the kings too, actually, like the Nets, precisely the opp of Wizdale approach
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 29, 2019, 12:46:57 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on January 29, 2019, 12:14:40 PM
LOL, you are so funny. Yes, look at the Nets, per previous post, they are the perfect rebuttal to your drug-addled ranting.

And you are comparing apples to oranges. 
You cite 2016-2017  -- that was two years ago.   
2017-2018 was last year.

You wanna go to last years Knicks too?  When we played the veterans and gave Ntilikina ZERO starts at PG?



Title: The Derrick Rose rule
Post by: Kam on January 29, 2019, 12:56:46 PM
OK i understand the rule ... but why do we need this rule?  It punishes smart teams like Boston.


Quote
Back in 2011, the NBA’s new collective bargaining agreement included a rule named after Derrick Rose. From ESPN:

The rule allows a player finishing his rookie contract to make 30 percent of a team’s salary cap — up from 25 percent — if he’s twice been voted an All-Star starter, twice been voted All-NBA or won an MVP award.

It was named after Rose because was NBA MVP in 2010-11, a rule that would reward players who exceeded their value while on their rookie deals.

Why is that a problem for a Davis and Celtics trade? Because NBA teams are only allowed to have two playera who signed a “Rose Rule” extension and are still on that contract  but only one can be acquired through a trade and the Celtics dealt for Irving in 2017. Both Kyrie Irving and Davis received Rose Rule extensions on their current contracts.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 29, 2019, 01:07:01 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 29, 2019, 12:46:57 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on January 29, 2019, 12:14:40 PM
LOL, you are so funny. Yes, look at the Nets, per previous post, they are the perfect rebuttal to your drug-addled ranting.

And you are comparing apples to oranges. 
You cite 2016-2017  -- that was two years ago.   
2017-2018 was last year.



No, I want to go Apples to Apples. Fiz first year vs. Atkinsons first year.  How each laid a foundation  (requires air quotes for Fiz) Now go back to your bong before I have to lay out Joerger's work for you.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 29, 2019, 01:32:56 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on January 29, 2019, 01:07:01 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 29, 2019, 12:46:57 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on January 29, 2019, 12:14:40 PM
LOL, you are so funny. Yes, look at the Nets, per previous post, they are the perfect rebuttal to your drug-addled ranting.

And you are comparing apples to oranges. 
You cite 2016-2017  -- that was two years ago.   
2017-2018 was last year.



No, I want to go Apples to Apples. Fiz first year vs. Atkinsons first year.  How each laid a foundation  (requires air quotes for Fiz) Now go back to your bong before I have to lay out Joerger's work for you.

Can't admit when you're wrong eh?

We played the VETS under Hornacek,

To do so again would be insane.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 29, 2019, 03:14:01 PM
Um. No. Cause I'm right. The teams you brought up specifically prove why I'm right. The Kings also have used a vet/yute mix throughout their resurgence. Joerger has taken a lot of heat for not pulling a Fiz, but stays the course and as a result developing some nice trajectory there. You just spout the same wrong shit over and over again. Which is really boring, btw —and a healthy part of the reason why we are down to about a handful of posters in here.


*** arguing with a weed-addled Turk-hater is naturally gonna be about as fruitful as buying lotto tickets to fund your retirement. Out for real.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 29, 2019, 03:21:32 PM
OK you win. Not because you are right but because I'm tired of your pointless negativity regarding how playing time is being distributed. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 29, 2019, 03:23:53 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on January 29, 2019, 03:14:01 PM
You just spout the same wrong shit over and over again. Which is really boring, btw —and a healthy part of the reason why we are down to about a handful of posters in here.


*** arguing with a weed-addled Turk-hater is naturally gonna be about as fruitful as buying lotto tickets to fund your retirement. Out for real.

I haven't mention Enes in my last dozen or so posts when Bo called me jerryang. I adjusted to not mention him anymore as the subject of my posts.  You just are seeing other people now posting similar observations.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 29, 2019, 03:40:58 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 29, 2019, 03:21:32 PM
OK you win. Not because you are right but because I'm tired of your pointless negativity regarding how playing time is being distributed.

No you are going to win because after the trade deadline, there shouldn't be anyone older than 25 on the roster — with the exception of Lance Thomas who is destined to achieve a greater longevity with this organization than Herb Williams — and then it really will be pointless for me to say anything about playing time.
Title: Les and Kam(s)ter
Post by: carlos123 on January 29, 2019, 09:53:29 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on January 29, 2019, 03:40:58 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 29, 2019, 03:21:32 PM
OK you win. Not because you are right but because I'm tired of your pointless negativity regarding how playing time is being distributed.

No you are going to win because after the trade deadline, there shouldn't be anyone older than 25 on the roster — with the exception of Lance Thomas who is destined to achieve a greater longevity with this organization than Herb Williams — and then it really will be pointless for me to say anything about playing time.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/SfypsfCBMapYbBSlmyY2qbjVC3fPS1GL5ZGXEVBrsuKvwdsd50qDaHogg_HQDyoCYfa9YhjUR6otCBEtnBEjRZfdSAWXbddylo5Le0CJuIkNTD-wf_3S56Uq1TN4SJplN2QECDXHuRIKjsVixGmr5F6bK704MeEdswQI3PYsY-UZmRYURfKOfGz_knT4MxQSmFYD2BeqW_uUv4EfMb1Hff9GGHw4djRG1S6rztwizIfh9oA8r9wx045gEplwSvPMHy06JS5T0WOdH018CWCfbLEjHOhsA241b39qKypmuPC3eb4h9bbtGH4J-qU6_QtR3CLM1APJ-_WUi7w7o2cMA7j4lyq3BJaGYZJssb4wF4QmBdQaELm-ppRq7I5GqEDtUERrDivprkvCh2fVrDqJ7zSy-QBd8Dmw97B4xVrzXKCX32vRc-53vl3n6flgEYwqUY9j74toIXsK5OekuzkZ0bOAbqb6-7gf1AFqjE2WErPFIyLYnWb5O3GFjPXbySmGbY7zL9x_2BjWiEUpS9sY6Tw0o7Pk45qSCmdK-J6D_Oq12IW9qH29rzCWUyCbNiXVwvOjsu-IPSbPAkwKoiJouFJZ8RBd000Gd2ZBe0ASGkEheGfcNBmOj4ri-Bdh-hs_1w96r-hy5jCvmfYm7y7fSvJe=w889-h600-no)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 29, 2019, 10:12:28 PM
Quote from: luee on January 28, 2019, 11:31:17 PM
Mud could well be the point the knix have been seeking for two decades. Home nurtured, sorry but he is a must resign. Get him, Trier, KK, and a baller in lotto and things wil be fine in 19. This is a tank, you minimize your chances to win.

I'm not as optimistic about Mud as you, and he doesn't quite fit my model as a true point guard who elevates everyone around him. BUT I do think he's improved significantly. I mean, a real leap. I love his tenacity and want to see whether he continues to evolve next year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 29, 2019, 10:16:54 PM
BTW, am I the only one who loves watching Mitchell Robinson? Entertainment value in that guy. It's not just his reach, he's got some real instincts as a shot blocker. If he gets better....I mean if he actually gets better....who knows what the man will turn into.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 29, 2019, 11:23:54 PM
Meanwhile, Jahlil Okafur says Anthony Who and throws down some of that old school out-moded game of the past goodness on Houston.

Imagine that. Play D on Harden. Hit em with a big. Win.

*** but, but, but, Fiz told me a Houston game is way too fast for big guys with archaic stylze

Flashback:
Quote from: lesterdog on January 24, 2019, 02:32:35 PM


You think you beat the Rockets by playing a third-rate version of their game? Of course not. Huge advantage to be seized with Capela out.


Title: He Did It He Done It He Did It WOO M'FN HOO
Post by: lesterluv on January 29, 2019, 11:33:12 PM
VICTORY ACHIEVED

Courtesy of the Cavs, with their win over the Wiz, Fiz is now the Shiz.

WORST RECORD IN THE LEAGUE


* Where'd you put those fireworks boys? Break out the plastic cups and ripple.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 29, 2019, 11:41:40 PM
That is good.

And Suns nearly beat the Spurs.
Suns have blown a number of tight games.  Knix too, I suppose.

Worst record is a good thing (but not as good as it was).
Top 5 pick sounds good to me.  With a  40% chance of Top 3 (or whatever the actual numbers).  I'll take it.

But just 1 W less than Suns, Bulls, Cavs.
Won't be easy, but something to root for . . .
Title: OUR MONSTER
Post by: carlos123 on January 29, 2019, 11:58:21 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 29, 2019, 10:16:54 PM
BTW, am I the only one who loves watching Mitchell Robinson? Entertainment value in that guy. It's not just his reach, he's got some real instincts as a shot blocker. If he gets better....I mean if he actually gets better....who knows what the man will turn into.

Mitchell all the way. He’s a beast, on his way to being OUR MONSTER. Love the guy, we never had anything like him.

Les, I don’t particularly like Fiz and especially his picking fights with players he don’t like and lack of coaching abilities. That being said, I’m very happy we’re last. We must ensure we’re in the bottom three to give us the best chance at landing you-know-who. Then we can give Enes a reasonable contract and get us a real coach. Not that is going down that way, but what the heck, one can hope.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 30, 2019, 12:03:40 AM
We end up with Zion, we're gonna owe him for sure. Start naming our babies Wizdale. Nothing half-assed about this plane ride to hell.

***Of course, then you gotta pick up the pieces and build a basketball team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 30, 2019, 12:10:21 AM
The next team won't just have a Top 5 draft pick.

It will have Kristaps Porzingis.

Fizdale should show he can win 45-50 with that group.

He deserves that chance.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on January 30, 2019, 12:53:51 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on January 30, 2019, 12:03:40 AM
We end up with Zion, we're gonna owe him for sure. Start naming our babies Wizdale. Nothing half-assed about this plane ride to hell.

***Of course, then you gotta pick up the pieces and build a basketball team.

That’s where the part about getting us a real coach comes into play.

Name Wizdale sounds cool though.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on January 30, 2019, 12:57:01 AM
this is considered  a weak draft after the top 3.

NY will have an excellent chance to fall out of that group.

even with Zion and KP this team is not a .500 team unless they snare  KD or Irving.  (why they would leave great teams to go to a poor one is beyond me.

as constituted they are a lottery team again.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 30, 2019, 06:36:53 AM
Knix need a starting PG.
That will make a big difference.

I'm not a draftnik, but there's always a handful of guys outside the elite top group who are quality NBA starters (with usually an all-star tucked in there somewhere).  With a Top 6 pick  or better, the Knix will have a chance to add a talented young player.  We've been a pretty good drafting team the past decade plus.

.500 in the East isn't that difficult.  MI and CHA hanging around there.  Nets zoomed past that.  Really the 5th seed is wide open in the East.  Hell, maybe the 4th seed this year with Oladipo done.

Knix will be a very young team next year.  KZ, Knox, Franc, Draft pick, Trier, Mitch, Kornet.  Plus whoever sticks around out of Von La, Mud, Datsun, etc.  That's up to 10.  We could probably use some savvy vets as fill-in.  Hopefully just one of Tim/Courtly.  Kant gone.  Zonja probably gone.  Burke doesn't seem in the plans (?)  Maybe another year of Lance.  Hopefully healthy.

So add in Kyrie, Kemba, Conley and you have a playoff competitive team.  Might want to consider Biz's idea of Conley.  NYK can see if some package of Tim Jr, Franc and Lance would be enough.  Conley a grinder who has health issues now and then and owed $66M the next two years.  But he's a 2-way PG who could run the show and steady a young group.  Would add just $1.5M to Knix next year cap.

Doable if Griz liked Franc and Tim enough.  Conley only aging on a team going nowhere ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 30, 2019, 10:46:33 AM
Caught the last 1/3 of the Suns-Spurs tilt.

Rich Holmes fouled out and oddly Uber guarded LMA the last 4 mins.
Didn't do badly, with some help.  Mostly had to front LMA.
Uber was active on the boards all game.  Missed 2 open 3's and had 2 dunks in the last 5 mins or so.  Up and down, good effort game.

Funny, Forbes has a by-far worst -19 for SA, but made a few big shots that kept them with the lead around the 5 and 4 minutes mark.

Big game for Booker.  He had B2B highlight plays.  A 1-on-2 fast break in which he reached back and flipped it in.  Then got stymied on a drive blindly reached around Vertans and bounced it to the corner.  Craw wasn't there yet, but Booker bounced it slowly, so craw was there when the ball got there.  Craw launched and hit.  Craw shot everything and did well. 

Bridges got unleashed in the last few minutes, with a layup, a dunk and a big time steal and dunk with 20 secs left to tie the game.  Setting the stage for a Gay 20 footer at the buzzer.  Fun game.
Scrappy.  One play there were 4 bodies on the floor (Uber first man down defending the rim).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 30, 2019, 02:24:05 PM
I see KO back to wayward shooting (33%) the last 4, though his combined -20 vs strong teams, 3 on the road, not too bad.

Gettin his chance....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 30, 2019, 02:25:32 PM
I should add Kelly has had more than 2 assists 4 times in his last 12.......(inc 7 in one game)

Progress, I guess.
Title: Re: OUR MONSTER
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 30, 2019, 02:29:48 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 29, 2019, 11:58:21 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 29, 2019, 10:16:54 PM
BTW, am I the only one who loves watching Mitchell Robinson? Entertainment value in that guy. It's not just his reach, he's got some real instincts as a shot blocker. If he gets better....I mean if he actually gets better....who knows what the man will turn into.

Mitchell all the way. He’s a beast, on his way to being OUR MONSTER. Love the guy, we never had anything like him.



Joe C Meriwether says hello.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on January 30, 2019, 02:36:36 PM
Always liked that guy.  He died too young. 

Excellent college player.  He played with Mike Glenn.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on January 30, 2019, 05:42:14 PM
Quote from: Nagel on January 30, 2019, 12:57:01 AM
this is considered  a weak draft after the top 3.

NY will have an excellent chance to fall out of that group.

even with Zion and KP this team is not a .500 team unless they snare  KD or Irving.  (why they would leave great teams to go to a poor one is beyond me.

as constituted they are a lottery team again.

Actually, I heard some say after 1 it's questionable, but after 2 or I guess maybe 3 (Morant - who's risen quite a bit - or Barrett - dropping?) there's another big drop off.

We know that the NBA now is so much about the concept of "assets" as well as other such themes taken from lawyer and economist paradigms. These perspectives are ever more used to understand decision making by teams, and is often attributed to what goes on inside of the "wiser" organizations.

The Knicks have historically not been so good at this, particularly with Phil, yet now we're trying to be more like this. As if chelu2 finally had a say.

The hiring of Fiz, as far as I understand, was in line with this. He was vetted by Perry and Mills as a FLEXIBLE and MODERN NBA coach, open to new ideas, analytics, all the new NBA stuff, as well as for his personality. I suspect this was not just about handling the media, or appealing to the newer generation of NBA players with as they call it in soccer, "man management," but also to coaching as more of a manager - so one who uses those who they surround themselves with - to help guide their work. So being not the best Xs and O's coach isn't as much of a problem.

I could be wrong, but it strikes me that this could be what's going on, and in other words, part of this relates to our losing. It's part of the process and not just about getting the worst record, which everyone knows is not as valuable as it was before the new draft rules this year.

So, this pick, despite Knick fans desperate for young players to "develop" may not be for that. It may be used in other ways to improve the team. Sadly this is hard to swallow for a decent portion of our fans.

We've been so traumatized by so many bad situations with young players traded that we can barely think straight about it. The idea of trading KP or Frank, or Knox or the draft pick, even for someone of AD's qualty is too difficult to fathom as even a concept. That type of response sounds like those I work with that say they won't trust anyone because they've been burned, when we know that's not a healthy concept for human beings to follow.

Let's see what happens. Right now I'm not exactly overjoyed, but we could get pretty good next year, or really good if things go our way.

If we don't get the #1 pick all is not necessarily lost, nor do I suspect it to be the plan. Why? Fiz and the Knicks would be even more completely ridiculous than we ever have been to assume we'd get because probability says is far more likely to not happen.

No #1 pick means the world will not end, and the season will not necessarily be a waste. If we don't get a top 1-2 pick, although it may still hurt, because part of building a "winning culture" is going through growing pains and transition of players you want in and don't want out. Fiz, Perry and Mills, as far as I can tell, are on the same page about this, so like Kam says, we have to see what happens over the summer to get some better sense of where we will be.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 30, 2019, 06:30:09 PM
Like I have said - brother - just have to HIT on the pick, be it 1, 3, 6 or 9.

I like Marant enough

I like Hachimura

Reddish and Barrett - sure.

I am sure there will be 2 or 3 others.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on January 30, 2019, 07:54:27 PM
Ike,  mordant is flying the bird and Barrett is considered a solid wing.

so Zion clearly the #1 pick then Morant or Barrett based on need.  almost every mock has those 3 at the top and Morant you tube videos are eye popping.

I'd take any of those 3.


hopefully Ny can trade some contracts to open as much space as possible because only Knox and Robinson are keepers IMO.

deal #!



Hardaway and EK packaged for   Rondo, Pope, Lance, Beasley ( all expiring)  Lakers get rebounder ( expiring) and shooter.

we get space.
Title: TH Jr.
Post by: carlos123 on January 30, 2019, 08:37:06 PM
Nagel, I appreciate your wishful thinking, but doubt there are any takers for Hard-away.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 30, 2019, 08:37:42 PM
Nice to see Smith Jr available tonight.

And the mystery of Kadeem Allen somewhat revealed - he lost 25 pounds since camp.

Whaaaaaaat?  He was that fat?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 30, 2019, 09:37:49 PM
Why do we have to call him Smith Jr... That's too close to Jr Smith
Title: Re: TH Jr.
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 30, 2019, 10:26:42 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 30, 2019, 08:37:06 PM
Nagel, I appreciate your wishful thinking, but doubt there are any takers for Hard-away.

Celtics......

Nets........

OKC.......

Bucks...........

Mavs............
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 30, 2019, 10:41:31 PM
All these other teams have nothing to give us that we want.  They still think they can rip us off because we've continuously been bent over in trades.  We will take Hardaway Jr if you include a #1. Blah  Blah BS
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 31, 2019, 12:29:43 AM
https://twitter.com/SageRosenfels18/status/1090828480743383040 (https://twitter.com/SageRosenfels18/status/1090828480743383040)
Title: Trade
Post by: carlos123 on January 31, 2019, 12:51:05 AM
Quote from: Kam on January 30, 2019, 10:41:31 PM
All these other teams have nothing to give us that we want.  They still think they can rip us off because we've continuously been bent over in trades.  We will take Hardaway Jr if you include a #1. Blah  Blah BS

Ok, Dallas

THJ and our top three protected pick for Luka Doncic + filler.

(Not that I think they need or want THJ, even for free).

Same applies to Tatum, Dinwiddie, Russell, Giannis, ... So, no sale Chico, nobody wants him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 31, 2019, 02:48:57 AM
Quote from: Kam on January 30, 2019, 09:37:49 PM
Why do we have to call him Smith Jr... That's too close to Jr Smith

because he was almost a Knick ... ?

Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 30, 2019, 10:26:42 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 30, 2019, 08:37:06 PM
Nagel, I appreciate your wishful thinking, but doubt there are any takers for Hard-away.

Celtics...... have Smart and Jaylen (and Gordon)

Nets........ have LaVert and Tangelo and Joe Harris is a better shooter than Tim.  They also have Crabbegrass.

OKC.......  OK, they could use Tim.  But what could they trade us?  We don't want Shroeder, and they need him.  Roberson (with another year left at $10M) + PatPat or Arbrines.

Bucks........... ha ha ha.  I mean, Brogdon is having a great year at starting SG.  52% / 42% / 95%. Complements Bled well.  Smart player on both ends.  $17M for a backup Tim?  Snell is $7M cheaper plays defense and shoots at least as well (45/ 40/89)

Mavs............ I'd rather re-sign Wes (41% / 37%) for 1/2 the money and twice the defense.

Reality Check:  Is Tim better than Wes Matthews, Snell, Jeremy Lamb, Bazemore, Satoransky, Evan Fournier, Reggie Bullock, Joe Harris ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on January 31, 2019, 07:06:49 AM
Oh my Lancela is a starter again. Full tank mode, havent seen that spirit ever in knickland. They always tried the bandaid cure. It might work look at the Nets. Are mud, trier, and Burke for real, can KP come back, does KK progress, which FAs want to play in this mess, Zion?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 31, 2019, 09:06:13 AM
Quote from: Kam on January 30, 2019, 10:41:31 PM
All these other teams have nothing to give us that we want.  They still think they can rip us off because we've continuously been bent over in trades.  We will take Hardaway Jr if you include a #1. Blah  Blah BS

Yeah.....

I guess some of those outfits have same eyes on their '19-'20 cap space as we do - but THJ helps all of the teams mentioned.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 31, 2019, 09:07:11 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 31, 2019, 02:48:57 AM
Quote from: Kam on January 30, 2019, 09:37:49 PM
Why do we have to call him Smith Jr... That's too close to Jr Smith

because he was almost a Knick ... ?

Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 30, 2019, 10:26:42 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 30, 2019, 08:37:06 PM
Nagel, I appreciate your wishful thinking, but doubt there are any takers for Hard-away.

Celtics...... have Smart and Jaylen (and Gordon)

Nets........ have LaVert and Tangelo and Joe Harris is a better shooter than Tim.  They also have Crabbegrass.

OKC.......  OK, they could use Tim.  But what could they trade us?  We don't want Shroeder, and they need him.  Roberson (with another year left at $10M) + PatPat or Arbrines.

Bucks........... ha ha ha.  I mean, Brogdon is having a great year at starting SG.  52% / 42% / 95%. Complements Bled well.  Smart player on both ends.  $17M for a backup Tim?  Snell is $7M cheaper plays defense and shoots at least as well (45/ 40/89)

Mavs............ I'd rather re-sign Wes (41% / 37%) for 1/2 the money and twice the defense.

Reality Check:  Is Tim better than Wes Matthews, Snell, Jeremy Lamb, Bazemore, Satoransky, Evan Fournier, Reggie Bullock, Joe Harris ...

Does he have to be?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 31, 2019, 09:41:18 AM
Check out Chris Clemons of Campbell

https://twitter.com/erecasner/status/1090884012934131717 (https://twitter.com/erecasner/status/1090884012934131717)

second round......perhaps?

stats

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/chris-clemons-2.html (https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/chris-clemons-2.html)

164 points to 3000

381 more points to catch Lionel Simmons as all time leading scorer in NCAA history

Getting near SIX rebounds a night, at 5 foot 9.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 31, 2019, 10:04:09 AM
https://twitter.com/footbalIfights/status/1090940825536811009 (https://twitter.com/footbalIfights/status/1090940825536811009)
Title: Re: TH Jr.
Post by: bankshot1 on January 31, 2019, 10:23:22 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 30, 2019, 10:26:42 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 30, 2019, 08:37:06 PM
Nagel, I appreciate your wishful thinking, but doubt there are any takers for Hard-away.

Celtics......



Speaking only to the Celts needs-I can't see them adding him, IMO they got too many guys right now.

I suspect Ainge is mostly thinking about his current too deep depth and trying to figure out an AD deal (one I posted about a couple of years ago).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 31, 2019, 11:05:31 AM
Ugly Memf-Minn game.
I almost always root for OT , especially when I tune in for the 2nd half of a replay.  But this was such a mistake-fest I dreaded OT.
Maybe the classic play was tied in OT with 30 secs left, Gasol drives bumps into Taj has it stripped, everybody ends up on the ground. 

Jump ball with 27 secs left.  Tied.
KAT v. Gasol.  KAT totally whiffs on the toss.  Gasol just has to bat it to his guy, but awkwardly hits it towards the floor.  Ball kicks around, everyone ends up on the floor again.  Another jump ball.  That kind of ugly scrappy game.

MINi wins the 2nd jump ball.  Wiggins holds for the last shot and clanks an ugly 18 footer off the back iron.  He finished 4-19 FG and looked awful.  Long rebound towards the corner.  KAT gets it and gets off an 18 footer with 0.01 left.  Swish. Game over.

Gasol and Conley both had airballs in OT. 
One play, Griz drive and kicked it to the corner.  Jackson holds it, hesitates, then throws up a one-handed prayer.  there was still 6 on the shot clock, but he seemed to panic.
Not good to see Bayless outplay Conley late 4Q and OT.

MInny starters went 2-21 on 3's.
As for Wiggins, is he just dumb??
Rose & Covington were out, so I'll give MIN a pass. But that was a real ugly game.  KAT was apparently in foul trouble much of the game, then 4 mins left in the 3rd, he bangs into Gasol on a 3, gtes his 4th foul and has to sit again.  Terrible foul, since it was a late contest on a  7 footer.  And after he lunged out, he turned around to watch the shot, not noticing that he was bumping into Gasol.  Ugly.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 31, 2019, 11:25:24 AM
I dont think Hardaway is exactly like any player the Celts have.......

but playing time concerns are important, of course....

Celts also dont match up with many teams in terms of deling salaries.   Likely they stand pat.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 31, 2019, 11:43:24 AM
Pretty hard to imagine who would take Timmy. Has to be a team with a real need. Pacers maybe? Tyreke Evans has been a big disappointment. Could see it if they can't do better. While Hardaway is looking like an awful bargain at that 18 mil per, he did have a promising start this year. Maybe some are willing to attribute part of his descent to the plummeting overall team environment.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on January 31, 2019, 11:43:51 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 31, 2019, 11:25:24 AM
I dont think Hardaway is exactly like any player the Celts have.......

but playing time concerns are important, of course....

Celts also dont match up with many teams in terms of deling salaries.   Likely they stand pat.

I don't see the need nor the fit.

IMO the Cetls will likely keep their ammo dry for possible deals next year.

Their one real concern is getting Hayward to 100%.  He's been hard to watch lately. He reminds me of a '70 Bailey Howell.
Title: Re: TH Jr.
Post by: Nagel on January 31, 2019, 12:45:07 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 30, 2019, 08:37:06 PM
Nagel, I appreciate your wishful thinking, but doubt there are any takers for Hard-away.
0

true
PS

EK on Knicks

 I’ll say in five to seven years they’ll definitely get that ring"
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on January 31, 2019, 12:59:32 PM
Thought experiment: If the Knicks win the lottery, then trade Courtly + Zion + Lance + future picks for Anthony Davis, and are unable to entice a free agent to come and so don't move Timmy and instead spend their remaining cap space on Ricky Rubio on a contract similar to what he has right now, how does Timmy then look? If he's not taking those tough shots, the end of shot clock isos, the bailout plays, do his percentages all of a sudden pick up? Does he continue to improve at doing the little things? Is his secondary playmaking useful in the below rotation, or a wasted talent since he'll only be a spot-up guy? I mean, he's still not going to be worth that contract, but does he help the team win enough that one doesn't gnash one's teeth so often anymore, in this scenario? And does he help the team win enough that Davis sees a contender here and decides to stay - or do we say that if we trade for Davis we absolutely must get rid of Timmy and replace him with a better player, no matter how many picks we give up?

Rubio/THJr/Knox/Brow/KP
Mudiay/Ntilikina/Dotson/free agent PF /Mitch

(presume for a second that's what we can afford)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on January 31, 2019, 01:08:29 PM
Btw, the absolute best case scenario, that I can figure, is the Knicks use some combination Vonleh/Dotson/Burke to entice a team to take on Courtney Lee.

Then win the lottery. Under normal circumstances, you definitely keep a potentially generational talent like Zion. But if the Knicks hear that Davis coming to NY means that any one of Kemba/Kyrie/Klay/Kevin (Durant) is willing to come play at MSG, in front of Celebrity Row and Breen&Clyde and all that good stuff, then you take a deep breath and move Zion because Zion < Davis + another all star. But you'd obviously want to be pretty confident in what you're hearing from the agents.

Anyhow, then you trade Zion/THJr/Lance/future picks for Davis. And you'd have enough cap space for a) Durant + MLE sized player + a mini-MLE exception  or b) one of the other guys plus almost two MLE size players. And once you have Davis+Durant+Porzingis in NYC, then you get vets taking sweetheart deals at the end of their careers, like the Warriors get. You can then have a rotation that looks like this:

Rubio/Ntilikina/Durant/Davis/Porzingis
Mudiay/IsoZo/Knox/Taj Gibson/Mitch

(Presume Durant to a max contract, Rubio to ~$11 per contract, Mudiay to the mini-MLE on some sort of loyalty discount, and Taj signing for the vet min to come play in his hometown)

That's the best case scenario. It's good enough to win the East, possibly the title. It just requires a) a Courtly trade in the next week and b) all the luck in the world.
Title: Spinning
Post by: carlos123 on January 31, 2019, 02:11:56 PM
You guys are making my head spin. We don’t have Zion, most likely (86%) we won’t get him, and are already giving up on him for a player who don’t want to be in NY. All I can say is Lordy have mercy!

Grateful you’re not our GMs. Perry/Mills looking pretty good right now, and that ain’t easy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 31, 2019, 02:21:00 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on January 31, 2019, 11:43:51 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 31, 2019, 11:25:24 AM
I dont think Hardaway is exactly like any player the Celts have.......

but playing time concerns are important, of course....

Celts also dont match up with many teams in terms of deling salaries.   Likely they stand pat.

I don't see the need nor the fit.

IMO the Cetls will likely keep their ammo dry for possible deals next year.

Their one real concern is getting Hayward to 100%.  He's been hard to watch lately. He reminds me of a '70 Bailey Howell.

Hayward will play sparingly come playoffs if not producing

Celtics cant afford to let this opportunity pass.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on January 31, 2019, 02:33:54 PM
where there is smoke there is  fire.

https://nypost.com/2019/01/31/kristaps-porzingis-vents-to-knicks-bosses-in-alarming-meeting/ (https://nypost.com/2019/01/31/kristaps-porzingis-vents-to-knicks-bosses-in-alarming-meeting/)

if I am KP I am thinking get me OUT OF THIS MESS.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 31, 2019, 02:49:37 PM
Yup.

Lotta risks brought about by the crap that's been created.

And great players don't think hey, it will all get great when I get there.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 31, 2019, 03:01:44 PM
Quote from: Nagel on January 31, 2019, 02:33:54 PM
where there is smoke there is  fire.

https://nypost.com/2019/01/31/kristaps-porzingis-vents-to-knicks-bosses-in-alarming-meeting/ (https://nypost.com/2019/01/31/kristaps-porzingis-vents-to-knicks-bosses-in-alarming-meeting/)

if I am KP I am thinking get me OUT OF THIS MESS.

Just got a report that Knicks are looking to trade KP before the deadline!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on January 31, 2019, 03:18:08 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 31, 2019, 02:21:00 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on January 31, 2019, 11:43:51 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 31, 2019, 11:25:24 AM
I dont think Hardaway is exactly like any player the Celts have.......

but playing time concerns are important, of course....

Celts also dont match up with many teams in terms of deling salaries.   Likely they stand pat.

I don't see the need nor the fit.

IMO the Cetls will likely keep their ammo dry for possible deals next year.

Their one real concern is getting Hayward to 100%.  He's been hard to watch lately. He reminds me of a '70 Bailey Howell.

Hayward will play sparingly come playoffs if not producing

Celtics cant afford to let this opportunity pass.

Passing on Hardaway is the only play.

There is no fit nor need to add the guy when they got too much depth as is. And they can use the $20MM per for other guys.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 31, 2019, 03:23:28 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on January 31, 2019, 12:59:32 PM
Thought experiment: If the Knicks win the lottery, then trade Courtly + Zion + Lance + future picks for Anthony Davis, and are unable to entice a free agent to come and so don't move Timmy and instead spend their remaining cap space on Ricky Rubio on a contract similar to what he has right now, how does Timmy then look? If he's not taking those tough shots, the end of shot clock isos, the bailout plays, do his percentages all of a sudden pick up? Does he continue to improve at doing the little things? Is his secondary playmaking useful in the below rotation, or a wasted talent since he'll only be a spot-up guy? I mean, he's still not going to be worth that contract, but does he help the team win enough that one doesn't gnash one's teeth so often anymore, in this scenario? And does he help the team win enough that Davis sees a contender here and decides to stay - or do we say that if we trade for Davis we absolutely must get rid of Timmy and replace him with a better player, no matter how many picks we give up?

Rubio/THJr/Knox/Brow/KP
Mudiay/Ntilikina/Dotson/free agent PF /Mitch

(presume for a second that's what we can afford)

Good post

First scenario seems right to me.

But I think Davis is gone by then.  They wont wait til we get the Zion pick, will they?.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 31, 2019, 03:26:14 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on January 31, 2019, 03:18:08 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 31, 2019, 02:21:00 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on January 31, 2019, 11:43:51 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 31, 2019, 11:25:24 AM
I dont think Hardaway is exactly like any player the Celts have.......

but playing time concerns are important, of course....

Celts also dont match up with many teams in terms of deling salaries.   Likely they stand pat.

I don't see the need nor the fit.

IMO the Cetls will likely keep their ammo dry for possible deals next year.

Their one real concern is getting Hayward to 100%.  He's been hard to watch lately. He reminds me of a '70 Bailey Howell.

Hayward will play sparingly come playoffs if not producing

Celtics cant afford to let this opportunity pass.

Passing on Hardaway is the only play.

There is no fit nor need to add the guy when they got too much depth as is. And they can use the $20MM per for other guys.

Probably right

Would have to be a 3-way anyway......maybe get Tim and others to Pelicans and Davis to Celts?
Title: Porzingis to Dallas for Dennis Smith Jr
Post by: Kam on January 31, 2019, 03:47:38 PM
We are also dumping Timmy and Courtney on the MAVS for DeAndre DeJordan and Worldwide Wes Matthews.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on January 31, 2019, 03:53:05 PM
Francesa says there is a report KP traded to the Mavs

no details on return from Mavs.

According to Woj

"New York has agreed with Dallas on trade that includes Kristaps Porzingis, Courtney Lee, Tim Hardaway Jr., for Wesley Matthews, Dennis Smith Jr. and DeAndre Jordan, league sources tell ESPN. Players and agents are being notified of particulars. Deal may include more draft assets."

Damn Celts could have used Hardaway.

Title: Re: Porzingis to Dallas for Dennis Smith Jr
Post by: Kam on January 31, 2019, 03:55:51 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 31, 2019, 03:47:38 PM
We are also dumping Timmy and Courtney on the MAVS for DeAndre DeJordan and Worldwide Wes Matthews.

We now have $55mil in cap room
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 31, 2019, 03:57:36 PM
Cuban trying to recreate Nash-Nowitzki with LD-KP
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 31, 2019, 04:00:50 PM
This move takes some balls by the Knicks FO.

Fans are gonna be pissed if we don't land some big names in July.

By getting DSJ we are out on Kyrie and Kemba
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 31, 2019, 04:02:39 PM
So nobody would take THJ and CL without an asset attached after all.

That's one hell of an asset we attached.




*** jeez


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on January 31, 2019, 04:03:13 PM
A salary dump/chance to bag a couple on big FAs next year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 31, 2019, 04:03:21 PM
Somewhere Frank Ntilikina's confidence just went sub-atomic.
Title: Re: Porzingis to Dallas for Dennis Smith Jr
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 31, 2019, 04:04:44 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 31, 2019, 03:47:38 PM
We are also dumping Timmy and Courtney on the MAVS for DeAndre DeJordan and Worldwide Wes Matthews.

gullible much?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 31, 2019, 04:08:42 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 31, 2019, 04:03:21 PM
Somewhere Frank Ntilikina's confidence just went sub-atomic.

He'll be gone soon enough, too, and like KP, with luck, get a chance to play for an actual coach.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 31, 2019, 04:11:08 PM
Somewhere Phil Jackson is smiling.  Charley Rosen is dusting off his teletype.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 31, 2019, 04:12:06 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on January 31, 2019, 04:08:42 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 31, 2019, 04:03:21 PM
Somewhere Frank Ntilikina's confidence just went sub-atomic.

He'll be gone soon enough, too, and like KP, with luck, get a chance to play for an actual coach.

I hope we at least get a #1 back.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 31, 2019, 04:13:15 PM
So ... Dennis Smith Jr.... DSJ... Dennis the menace....


What happens to Mudiay?
Title: Ancillary benefits of the trade
Post by: Kam on January 31, 2019, 04:14:07 PM
Carlos can stop correcting BoZ
Title: So hard to say Goodbye.
Post by: Kam on January 31, 2019, 04:15:25 PM
Wow... goodbye Kristaps.  Stay healthy man.
Title: Kris Stops!
Post by: Kam on January 31, 2019, 04:16:42 PM
Porzin - gone
Title: Re: Ancillary benefits of the trade
Post by: Kam on January 31, 2019, 04:18:26 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 31, 2019, 04:14:07 PM
Carlos can stop correcting BoZ

39% FG Tim Hardaway Jr is gone
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 31, 2019, 04:19:05 PM
hmmmm......

I guess it is a deal.

heh

Knicks of course get a first rounder at least......

Smith Jr can show me something if deal is official by showing up tomorrow
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 31, 2019, 04:22:18 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on January 31, 2019, 04:08:42 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 31, 2019, 04:03:21 PM
Somewhere Frank Ntilikina's confidence just went sub-atomic.

He'll be gone soon enough, too, and like KP, with luck, get a chance to play for an actual coach.

I dont know.......

seeing Frank as the starting 2 guard now.

Oh....wait - thsat was if we had Monk.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 31, 2019, 04:22:59 PM
I'm sure that, in the last few years, the Knicks management could have handled things worse.

But I have no idea how.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 31, 2019, 04:31:17 PM
Quote from: Nagel on January 31, 2019, 04:28:35 PM
it's been less than a pleasure. but I am done with the morons at MSG after 560 years of being a knick fan.

amazing.

I don't blame any fan for feeling this way.  Hang tough homie.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 31, 2019, 04:32:08 PM
Truth is, after chatting with an NBA foot specialist a couple of years back who gave me odds regarding KP's career and injuries......I've never been comfortable with seeing him as some kind of a messiah.

But I always figured we'd get something more substantial for him if we let him go.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on January 31, 2019, 04:32:15 PM
talk about pushing the pace...radical surgery...immediate impression - whiplash and bad mojo...
what year is the first rounder?
Title: Re: Ancillary benefits of the trade
Post by: Kam on January 31, 2019, 04:33:04 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 31, 2019, 04:18:26 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 31, 2019, 04:14:07 PM
Carlos can stop correcting BoZ

39% FG Tim Hardaway Jr is gone

Won't have to hear the words "injury prone" or fear another fracture
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 31, 2019, 04:34:34 PM
I like Cuban.

And he did fine here

But still much work to do there.

Knick fans have always overrated Porzingis.  The exit interview shit followed him.  It was a sign.

I dont fault KP for agreeing with me that a losing culture was simmering here - and speaking up abouyt it.  But he could have seen the positives......

Somewhere in this KP made it clear he was gone if given the option.  And the talk of Knicks liking Smith all along also didnt go away.....

What they decide to do with Frank will be interesting.  And will we renounce evryone?

Smith deal, by the way:

4.46 in 19-20
5.68 in 20-21
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 31, 2019, 04:35:23 PM
Quote from: Jack Straw on January 31, 2019, 04:32:15 PM
talk about pushing the pace...radical surgery...immediate impression - whiplash and bad mojo...
what year is the first rounder?

I am guessing 2020.  No protection.
Title: Re: Ancillary benefits of the trade
Post by: Kam on January 31, 2019, 04:37:39 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 31, 2019, 04:33:04 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 31, 2019, 04:18:26 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 31, 2019, 04:14:07 PM
Carlos can stop correcting BoZ

39% FG Tim Hardaway Jr is gone

Won't have to hear the words "injury prone" or fear another fracture

With DSJ as PG of the Future.. we don't have to place a bet on Mudiay's next deal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 31, 2019, 04:38:21 PM
So now that we have all that cap space......who's going to come here?

A real question.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on January 31, 2019, 04:41:43 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 31, 2019, 04:35:23 PM
Quote from: Jack Straw on January 31, 2019, 04:32:15 PM
talk about pushing the pace...radical surgery...immediate impression - whiplash and bad mojo...
what year is the first rounder?

I am guessing 2020.  No protection.
no protection - really nails it to describe the Knicks and their fans...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 31, 2019, 04:45:53 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 31, 2019, 04:38:21 PM
So now that we have all that cap space......who's going to come here?

A real question.

I don't think this FO makes this trade without feeling like they have a good shot at Kevin Durant.

Enes Kanter came out recently saying someone mindblowing would sign here but he can't reveal who it is.

Who else could he be talking about?  Kevin is his former teammate.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 31, 2019, 04:46:30 PM
Trey Burke has been mentioned as part of the deal now.  Makes sense.

Knicks with contracts for 19-20

Robinson
Ntlikina
Knox
Smith Jr
(the pick)

Smith acquisition would signal we will likely not be adding Marant. 

So...

who do we take at

2 - if Zion gone
3 - if Zion and Barrret gone
4 - if Zion, Barret, Marant gone
5 - if Zion, Barrett, Marant, Hachimura gone

Of course if we done get the 1, 2, 3....

we could deal our pick plus Frank to move up.  I dont think we would move Mitch or Knoxie.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 31, 2019, 04:48:06 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 31, 2019, 04:38:21 PM
So now that we have all that cap space......who's going to come here?

A real question.

Francessa:  Why WOULDNT Durant come here?  He could choose the second guy.

So....what do we do if DeAndre shows up and kicks ass?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 31, 2019, 04:49:05 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 31, 2019, 04:45:53 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 31, 2019, 04:38:21 PM
So now that we have all that cap space......who's going to come here?

A real question.

I don't think this FO makes this trade without feeling like they have a good shot at Kevin Durant.

Enes Kanter came out recently saying someone mindblowing would sign here but he can't reveal who it is.

Who else could he be talking about?  Kevin is his former teammate.

Sure. Get me dreaming like that.


(the cycle of pain goes on forever)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 31, 2019, 04:49:29 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 31, 2019, 04:35:23 PM
Quote from: Jack Straw on January 31, 2019, 04:32:15 PM
talk about pushing the pace...radical surgery...immediate impression - whiplash and bad mojo...
what year is the first rounder?

I am guessing 2020.  No protection.

Trying to be the youngest team in the league again and again
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 31, 2019, 04:52:15 PM
Hearing now that KP would not stay with Pelicans, which nixed a Davis deal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 31, 2019, 05:06:22 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 31, 2019, 04:38:21 PM
So now that we have all that cap space......who's going to come here?

A real question.

This is a pretty good piece with the usual suspects.

https://sports.yahoo.com/new-york-knicks-free-agency-primer-bombshell-kristaps-porzingis-trade-215431798.html (https://sports.yahoo.com/new-york-knicks-free-agency-primer-bombshell-kristaps-porzingis-trade-215431798.html)

"The dream, for the Knicks, is mostly like luring Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving away from the Golden State Warriors and Boston Celtics, respectively. The joke, for everyone familiar with the Knicks, is that they will end up spending north of $60 million on borderline stars like Tobias Harris and Eric Bledsoe."

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 31, 2019, 05:07:45 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 31, 2019, 05:06:22 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 31, 2019, 04:38:21 PM
So now that we have all that cap space......who's going to come here?

A real question.

This is a pretty good piece with the usual suspects.

https://sports.yahoo.com/new-york-knicks-free-agency-primer-bombshell-kristaps-porzingis-trade-215431798.html (https://sports.yahoo.com/new-york-knicks-free-agency-primer-bombshell-kristaps-porzingis-trade-215431798.html)

"The dream, for the Knicks, is mostly like luring Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving away from the Golden State Warriors and Boston Celtics, respectively. The joke, for everyone familiar with the Knicks, is that they will end up spending north of $60 million on borderline stars like Tobias Harris and Eric Bledsoe."

I really would have to consider Nage's exit plan if that is what came to pass.
Title: Message Received LeBron
Post by: Kam on January 31, 2019, 05:11:22 PM
Smith also has LeBron James in his corner because the four-time MVP mentored him in high school. James made waves last year when he said the Knicks drafted the wrong point guard.

“The Knicks passed on a really good one, and Dallas got the diamond in the rough,” James said in November 2017. “He should be a Knick. That’s going to make some headlines, but he should be a Knick. Dallas is definitely, I know they’re excited that he didn’t go there.
Title: Question
Post by: Kam on January 31, 2019, 05:28:06 PM
Why do the trade today and not wait to see if there are any better offers?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 31, 2019, 05:33:50 PM
Yep

Burke gone

And it is now being reported as multiple first rounders to NY
Title: Re: Question
Post by: PrezIke on January 31, 2019, 05:34:31 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 31, 2019, 05:28:06 PM
Why do the trade today and not wait to see if there are any better offers?

My guess is Knicks already put out feelers about KP already. In fact, that's being reported, or at least that they contacted Dallas days ago, as there's been inclinations KP was lukewarm about staying.

Can't believe I'm saying this but he can go for all I care now, and I loved him. I just didn't feel he had his heart in being here, seemed impatient.

How many teams can offer that much in ending contracts? Knicks probably also didn't want a circus after the rumors came out about the meeting and MUST have strong belief that they can get Kyrie and KD. Also suspect we have a strong probability we will be trading our pick as well, especially if it drops out of the top 3.

We are getting 2 future 1st rounders btw, per Michael Kay.
Title: Potential All-Star in the East ... out west?
Post by: Kam on January 31, 2019, 05:35:23 PM
(https://imagesvc.timeincapp.com/v3/mm/image?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn-s3.si.com%2Fs3fs-public%2F2019%2F01%2F31%2Fkp_site.jpg&w=800&q=85)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on January 31, 2019, 05:35:53 PM
I actually think this was the right move given what's going on. Again, hearing SAS saying exactly how I feel. He didn't want to be here, so goodbye.
Title: Re: Question
Post by: Kam on January 31, 2019, 05:37:59 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on January 31, 2019, 05:34:31 PM

We are getting 2 future 1st rounders btw, per Michael Kay.

Maybe this was the best deal out there.  The picks help.  DSJ and Cap Space for KP wasn't enough. 

Now those picks become trade assets as well.

It's not just Kevin or bust.  We can do sign and trades of RFAs as well now.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on January 31, 2019, 05:39:17 PM
SAS saying he's hearing Kyrie is not so keen on staying in Boston and idea of staying is a "smokescreen."

Saying Ainge also more into AD than giving Kyrie a max deal.
Title: Re: Question
Post by: lesterluv on January 31, 2019, 05:42:20 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on January 31, 2019, 05:34:31 PM
Can't believe I'm saying this but he can go for all I care now, and I loved him. I just didn't feel he had his heart in being here, seemed impatient.

LOL, impatient. He'd endured 4 years of the deepest kind of crap including a pilot's-eye view of 50 games of Fiz. Patience of a saint is more accurate.

Rick Carlisle & Mark Cuban or Wizdale & Dolan. I'd say he did just fine for himself as well he should have.
Title: No Nonsense Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 31, 2019, 05:45:56 PM
Mills and Fizdale don't F*** around.

Complain to the press about starting? Well now you're benched.

Don't like the direction of the franchise? Goodbye, you're traded.

That's actually a message sent to the rest of the players.

Is that what it takes to "change the culture"?


Scaring them into getting in line. I mean they are kids so maybe not a bad idea.
Title: Re: Question
Post by: lesterluv on January 31, 2019, 05:48:50 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 31, 2019, 05:28:06 PM
Why do the trade today and not wait to see if there are any better offers?

Because we have been and continue to be the dimmest bulbs in the whole bunch.

*** KP for a guy who spent the bulk of the last month in exile from his own team? Sounds great! Where do I sign...
Title: Re: No Nonsense Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 31, 2019, 05:50:34 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 31, 2019, 05:45:56 PM
Mills and Fizdale don't F*** around.

Complain to the press about starting? Well now you're benched.

Don't like the direction of the franchise? Goodbye, you're traded.

That's actually a message sent to the rest of the players.

Is that what it takes to "change the culture"?


Scaring them into getting in line. I mean they are kids so maybe not a bad idea.

Yes, let's jettison the Unicorn to make sure Kornet and Trier and Franc learn a lesson!


*** ok, Knox too...
Title: Re: Question
Post by: Kam on January 31, 2019, 05:51:28 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on January 31, 2019, 05:48:50 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 31, 2019, 05:28:06 PM
Why do the trade today and not wait to see if there are any better offers?

Because we have been and continue to be the dimmest bulbs in the whole bunch.

*** KP for a guy who spent the bulk of the last month in exile from his own team? Sounds great! Where do I sign...

It certainly supports that assertion to have a meeting with an unhappy player and then trade him an hour later.  Even if we'd been working on this deal for weeks it creates the appearance of a reactionary franchise.  Was this deal going to be taken off the table, if not made today, like Cuban does on his TV show?
Title: Re: No Nonsense Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on January 31, 2019, 05:51:59 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 31, 2019, 05:45:56 PM
Mills and Fizdale don't F*** around.

Complain to the press about starting? Well now you're benched.

Don't like the direction of the franchise? Goodbye, you're traded.

That's actually a message sent to the rest of the players.

Is that what it takes to "change the culture"?


Scaring them into getting in line. I mean they are kids so maybe not a bad idea.

Yes.

You want players that want to be here, but also those that are actually fit in and buy into things unlike Kanter, using faux love for the team as a way to stay in NYC which gives him all of the attention he craves for his pending WWE career.
Title: Re: No Nonsense Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 31, 2019, 05:52:46 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on January 31, 2019, 05:50:34 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 31, 2019, 05:45:56 PM
Mills and Fizdale don't F*** around.

Complain to the press about starting? Well now you're benched.

Don't like the direction of the franchise? Goodbye, you're traded.

That's actually a message sent to the rest of the players.

Is that what it takes to "change the culture"?


Scaring them into getting in line. I mean they are kids so maybe not a bad idea.

Yes, let's jettison the Unicorn to make sure Kornet and Trier and Franc learn a lesson!

lol.

More like Knox Mitch and Trier. 

We are going super young so if we strike out on FA's we will still suck and get more lottos.
Title: Re: No Nonsense Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 31, 2019, 05:56:46 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 31, 2019, 05:52:46 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on January 31, 2019, 05:50:34 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 31, 2019, 05:45:56 PM
Mills and Fizdale don't F*** around.

Complain to the press about starting? Well now you're benched.

Don't like the direction of the franchise? Goodbye, you're traded.

That's actually a message sent to the rest of the players.

Is that what it takes to "change the culture"?


Scaring them into getting in line. I mean they are kids so maybe not a bad idea.

Yes, let's jettison the Unicorn to make sure Kornet and Trier and Franc learn a lesson!

lol.

More like Knox Mitch and Trier. 

We are going super young so if we strike out on FA's we will still suck and get more lottos.

I'm telling you that lotto ain't like it used to be.
Philly needed like 6 wiffs to get 2 hits.
Now, you need like 12 chances to get those 6 wiffs and 2 hits!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 31, 2019, 06:09:49 PM
Incomplete list


K Walker

Parker

Hood

Clarkson

T Thompson

Dedmon

Marc Morris

Irving

Horford

Carroll

E Davis

J Lamb

Parker

Isiah T

Ish

Klay

DeMarcus

KD

Tobias

Gortat

Rondo

C-Pope

McGee

Whiteside

Dragic

Bledsoe

Taj

J Randle

Mirotic

Vucevic

Noel

Redick

Bender

Gay

Kawhi

Rubio

Mark Morris

Ariza



Title: Re: No Nonsense Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 31, 2019, 06:15:32 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on January 31, 2019, 05:50:34 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 31, 2019, 05:45:56 PM
Mills and Fizdale don't F*** around.

Complain to the press about starting? Well now you're benched.

Don't like the direction of the franchise? Goodbye, you're traded.

That's actually a message sent to the rest of the players.

Is that what it takes to "change the culture"?


Scaring them into getting in line. I mean they are kids so maybe not a bad idea.

Yes, let's jettison the Unicorn to make sure Kornet and Trier and Franc learn a lesson!


*** ok, Knox too...

Hearing that KP requested a trade at the meeting.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 31, 2019, 06:26:41 PM
If so that means it went down like this: https://twitter.com/_JohnGonz/status/1091080191567220736?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1091080191567220736&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fsportsday.dallasnews.com%2Fdallas-mavericks%2Fmavericks%2F2019%2F01%2F31%2Fnational-reaction-kristaps-porzingis-trade-knicks-inept-dallas-new-nash-dirk
 (https://twitter.com/_JohnGonz/status/1091080191567220736?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1091080191567220736&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fsportsday.dallasnews.com%2Fdallas-mavericks%2Fmavericks%2F2019%2F01%2F31%2Fnational-reaction-kristaps-porzingis-trade-knicks-inept-dallas-new-nash-dirk)
Kristaps: I want out

Knicks: OK.

Dallas: We’ll take him.

Knicks: Should we call other teams?…nah. Easier this way. Let’s get lunch.

But more likely it went down like this:
https://www.12up.com/posts/6285562-knicks-definitely-had-kristaps-porzingis-trade-with-mavericks-in-place-before-tense-meeting (https://www.12up.com/posts/6285562-knicks-definitely-had-kristaps-porzingis-trade-with-mavericks-in-place-before-tense-meeting)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 31, 2019, 06:38:09 PM
The fix was in on both sides so i can't be mad at anyone. 
He wanted to go play with Luka. Not Zion.
Did we get enough? Time will tell.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on January 31, 2019, 06:40:18 PM
Of course this was in the works, if the Mavs pick this conveys to ATL then Knicks looking at 2021 & 23, what a typical Knicks move...dumb all over a little ugly on the side, but in this case coyote ugly on the side

Time for Kiid to regale onwhat a great job laydumb did....and sadly Laydumb is looking better by the year
Title: One way to look at it
Post by: Kam on January 31, 2019, 06:49:23 PM
A 10-40 team just traded their #1(injured) and #2 scorer(inefficient). 

They got back .... hope.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 31, 2019, 06:51:00 PM
Quote from: Jack Straw on January 31, 2019, 06:40:18 PM
Of course this was in the works, if the Mavs pick this conveys to ATL then Knicks looking at 2021 & 23

The pick in 2023 has no protection on it.  Root for Dallas to be snakebit.
Title: Re: Ancillary benefits of the trade
Post by: carlos123 on January 31, 2019, 07:11:49 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 31, 2019, 04:14:07 PM
Carlos can stop correcting BoZ

Well, he earned the BoZ name in perpetuity. Also, in addition to KZ, don’t forget El Zingerino. That was his masterpiece. Can’t wait for his comments about DonZiZ and DallaZ.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on January 31, 2019, 07:24:05 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on January 31, 2019, 06:26:41 PM
If so that means it went down like this: https://twitter.com/_JohnGonz/status/1091080191567220736?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1091080191567220736&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fsportsday.dallasnews.com%2Fdallas-mavericks%2Fmavericks%2F2019%2F01%2F31%2Fnational-reaction-kristaps-porzingis-trade-knicks-inept-dallas-new-nash-dirk
 (https://twitter.com/_JohnGonz/status/1091080191567220736?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1091080191567220736&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fsportsday.dallasnews.com%2Fdallas-mavericks%2Fmavericks%2F2019%2F01%2F31%2Fnational-reaction-kristaps-porzingis-trade-knicks-inept-dallas-new-nash-dirk)
Kristaps: I want out

Knicks: OK.

Dallas: We’ll take him.

Knicks: Should we call other teams?…nah. Easier this way. Let’s get lunch.

But more likely it went down like this:
https://www.12up.com/posts/6285562-knicks-definitely-had-kristaps-porzingis-trade-with-mavericks-in-place-before-tense-meeting (https://www.12up.com/posts/6285562-knicks-definitely-had-kristaps-porzingis-trade-with-mavericks-in-place-before-tense-meeting)

Yeah, so? Duh. Not sure that's too shocking. Of course we were shopping him as they probably knew he wasn't so happy. We've sensed that for a while.  If he hinted he wanted to stay this would not be happening.

KP is a very talented player, but he's not proven himself to stay healthy and be consistent enough to be considered among the best yet. I wish he wanted to stay, but he didn't seem to suggest that. I hear he was telling us he'd only sign the qualifying offer, or that this was a risk, as would be signing him to a max deal this summer after he hadn't even played following such a serious, life altering, injury.

Doesn't it make sense for a team to have players that completely buy into what management is doing? I know it's easy to lump the way the Knicks are run now to what they were in the past, but it doesn't seem that way as much with Perry and Fiz now. Mills is here, sure, but this trade is a sign of things different. Sorry that KP had to endure Jax, and he's paying for that failure, but if things are that bad, then why did we trade, in part, for 2 max contracts worth of cap space THIS summer? Come on now.

We didn't even just trade for just cap space, we got 2 1st rounders, and we will still be bad now, so we have added other assets. It may not pan out for us, sure, but it's not clearly a failure as the usual suspects everywhere are all lining up to moan about.

I can see why he wanted out, maybe it was time to move on, and I do blame Phil and of course Dolan, but I'd like to see how things pan out with the current management for the foreseeable future before I pass the strongest judgement.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 31, 2019, 07:29:21 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on January 31, 2019, 07:24:05 PM

Doesn't it make sense for a team to have players that completely buy into what management is doing? I know it's easy to lump the way the Knicks are run now to what they were in the past, but it doesn't seem that way as much with Perry and Fiz now. Mills is here, sure, but this trade is a sign of things different.

If management is the management with the worst record in the league, worst owner in the league, with a proven track record of abysmal failure, and a GM who is desperately flailing to get out of an idiotic contract he signed barely yesterday.

Then, no. You don't want players who buy in to that because those players would be idiots and it takes smart players to win basketball games.

We're going to Make the Knicks Great Again. Duh. O.K. Where's my hat?

*** Now Carlyle is a very smart coach and a very smart player would love to play for him. Now, a stupid 2nd year player would end up in a January holdout from that team. Which one did we end up with?
Title: Re: No Nonsense Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 31, 2019, 07:40:50 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on January 31, 2019, 05:51:59 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 31, 2019, 05:45:56 PM
Mills and Fizdale don't F*** around.

Complain to the press about starting? Well now you're benched.

Don't like the direction of the franchise? Goodbye, you're traded.

That's actually a message sent to the rest of the players.

Is that what it takes to "change the culture"?


Scaring them into getting in line. I mean they are kids so maybe not a bad idea.

Yes.

You want players that want to be here, but also those that are actually fit in and buy into things unlike Kanter, using faux love for the team as a way to stay in NYC which gives him all of the attention he craves for his pending WWE career.

Strong argument. Yes, Kanter is an evil faker.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 31, 2019, 07:44:38 PM
I love the ongoing hysterical Kanter hate. Positively obsessed. ;) We'll find out later the passport holders are Armenian. Only rational explanation.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 31, 2019, 07:50:22 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on January 31, 2019, 07:44:38 PM
I love the ongoing hysterical Kanter hate. Positively obsessed. ;) We'll find out later the passport holders are Armenian. Only rational explanation.

Armenia?  Did you just make that word up?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 31, 2019, 07:50:38 PM
I'm from Narnia.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 31, 2019, 07:51:51 PM
Some of my best friends are Armenian.

 (https://images-cdn.9gag.com/photo/aB02ZbQ_700b.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 31, 2019, 07:52:18 PM
I always suspected that Kam  :)
Title: Remember This:
Post by: Kam on January 31, 2019, 08:48:25 PM
January 25 2017

DALLAS — In usual outlandish form, Mavericks owner Mark Cuban said from his locker-room StairMaster he wouldn’t be happy if Dirk Nowitzki worked out with Knicks phenom Kristaps Porzingis this summer.

Porzingis said in November a plan was in the works to work out with his German idol after plans were foiled last season.

Cuban doesn’t want his superstar — even if he’s at the end of his career — giving a young rival any shooting pointers.

“F–k no,’’ Cuban said playfully about the prospect. “You know how much money I pay Dirk? Unless he teaches him how to shoot like me, then I’ll be really excited about it.”
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on January 31, 2019, 08:53:33 PM
https://twitter.com/Enes_Kanter/status/1091150834023522304

What a team player. All time great Knick after 1 season who warrants no criticism.

I'm hysterical, clearly.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 31, 2019, 09:01:41 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on January 31, 2019, 06:26:41 PM
If so that means it went down like this: https://twitter.com/_JohnGonz/status/1091080191567220736?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1091080191567220736&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fsportsday.dallasnews.com%2Fdallas-mavericks%2Fmavericks%2F2019%2F01%2F31%2Fnational-reaction-kristaps-porzingis-trade-knicks-inept-dallas-new-nash-dirk
 (https://twitter.com/_JohnGonz/status/1091080191567220736?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1091080191567220736&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fsportsday.dallasnews.com%2Fdallas-mavericks%2Fmavericks%2F2019%2F01%2F31%2Fnational-reaction-kristaps-porzingis-trade-knicks-inept-dallas-new-nash-dirk)
Kristaps: I want out

Knicks: OK.

Dallas: We’ll take him.

Knicks: Should we call other teams?…nah. Easier this way. Let’s get lunch.

But more likely it went down like this:
https://www.12up.com/posts/6285562-knicks-definitely-had-kristaps-porzingis-trade-with-mavericks-in-place-before-tense-meeting (https://www.12up.com/posts/6285562-knicks-definitely-had-kristaps-porzingis-trade-with-mavericks-in-place-before-tense-meeting)

More like this:

KD: Yo I am NOT coming there for less than the MAX

PerryMills: We hear you Mr. Durant and we are working dilligently on opening up enough space for a max cont --

KD: And i aint coming by myself neither

PerryMills: For uhh for umm TWO max contracts.  Yes, two contracts...  that was the plan all along.  Yep.  Secret plan. 

KD: Good

PerryMills:  But will you be mad if we have to move the Unicorn to get it done?

KD: Nah.  All you need is KD

PerryMills: Great... just KD

KD: And one other elite talent. Don't forget that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on January 31, 2019, 09:03:23 PM
https://twitter.com/NateDuncanNBA/status/1091134139808460800

I don't think the Knicks could have moved Hardaway and Lee's salaries for the cost of 2 first round picks, so it's like the Mavs are giving 4 first round picks."

"Did I miss this part of the season where Kristaps Porzingis returned, and...looked awesome and didn't get injured again...or wasn't going to get injured again? Because this trade had been more appropriate if he never had the ACL injury."
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Merciless on January 31, 2019, 09:06:54 PM
Monty Python's Flying Circus starring the NY Knicks in Twit of the Year

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/70/52/6c/70526c00176e5448651b0327d2d79c50.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 31, 2019, 09:07:49 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on January 31, 2019, 08:53:33 PM
https://twitter.com/Enes_Kanter/status/1091150834023522304

What a team player. All time great Knick after 1 season who warrants no criticism.

I'm hysterical, clearly.

I certainly don't want to buy out DeAndre.  He would be a good player to mentor Mitch for the last 30 games.

Wes Matthews can go join the Houston Rockets.
Title: Re: No Nonsense Knicks
Post by: Merciless on January 31, 2019, 09:17:48 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 31, 2019, 05:45:56 PM
Mills and Fizdale don't F*** around.

Complain to the press about starting? Well now you're benched.

Don't like the direction of the franchise? Goodbye, you're traded.

That's actually a message sent to the rest of the players.

Is that what it takes to "change the culture"?


Scaring them into getting in line. I mean they are kids so maybe not a bad idea.

um, yeah - except these "kids" are pretty much all alike. They don't give a fuck and know the team needs them more than they need the team. Not right, just reality.

This smells like panic. Perry is bonafide moron. Hoping that they will get max FA's is an old recipe that's given us nothing but food poisoning.

Your NY Knicks...the more things change, the more they stay the same.

Mills doesn't fuck around you say?

Wasn't it Mills that gave Hardaway that stupid contract in the first place and could've drafted D Smith Jr ahead of Frenchy?

Mills is a corporate suit douche that has done nothing to improve this franchise

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 31, 2019, 09:19:09 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on January 31, 2019, 08:53:33 PM
https://twitter.com/Enes_Kanter/status/1091150834023522304

What a team player. All time great Knick after 1 season who warrants no criticism.

I'm hysterical, clearly.

You said it :)
Title: Sobering realization
Post by: Kam on January 31, 2019, 09:33:36 PM
KP had the power here.  Just because he was heading into RFA didn't make him ma shoe-in to stay here. His agent said as much.

"The most important question here is this: What do you really want to achieve in your career?" Janis Porzingis said in an interview in Latvian with Sportacentrs, according to a translation by Eurohoops.net. "Because money - if Kristaps performs at least on his normal level, is gonna come. We are more focused on some other values and not just to quickly sign a new contract so we can collect the money. That's definitely not our goal, so we won't be feverishly counting minutes or counting points. You can't escape the reality and the Knicks must also see that.

He had threatened to play his fifth season under the 7.5 mil qualifying offer in order to become a UFA.

Had that come to pass we would not have received good offers knowing that any team that wanted him would just have to wait.
Title: Breaking up sucks
Post by: Kam on January 31, 2019, 09:35:52 PM
This is just a break-up.

 Lotta Knick fans are feeling jilted by the organization but KP orchestrated his exit as much as the FO facilitated it.

So it was never meant to be Knicks fans.

Cheer up.  We came away with a warchest of goods for an asset that wasn't going to increase in value under his present deal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on January 31, 2019, 09:37:21 PM
https://twitter.com/KnickFilmSchool/status/1091161195569131520

Our other, now gone, "loyal servant" to the team. Who fans have bent over backwards to reign terror on the front office for trading based on history rather than the present moment.

Sad.

https://twitter.com/RebeccaHaarlow/status/1091155966131884032

Time to move on. I ain't crying.

I like what the leadership is trying to do. I think our approach has more of a chance to finally lead us to where our less reactive fans have been begging for us to go for ages.

I'm not ecstatic, but cautiously optimistic. This move was bold, but I think we did well, as did that podcast I just posted a link to as well, saying that they were surprised to realize this after the original reactions from the media.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 31, 2019, 09:41:09 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on January 31, 2019, 09:37:21 PM


I like what the leadership is trying to do. I think our approach has more of a chance to finally lead us to where our less reactive fans have been begging for us to go for ages.


This trade is the logical conclusion to the old  "Nagel Rule" philosophy.  Clear the decks.  We had to dump Lee and Jr. to be players in free agency.  This is the first time we have had enough money to land Two big name free agents.  Rectifying the mistake of 2010 where we pitched LeBron no running mate.

Also i think Brooklyn having more space made the Knicks nervous.
Title: Re: Sobering realization
Post by: Merciless on January 31, 2019, 09:45:01 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 31, 2019, 09:33:36 PM
KP had the power here.  Just because he was heading into RFA didn't make him ma shoe-in to stay here. His agent said as much.

"The most important question here is this: What do you really want to achieve in your career?" Janis Porzingis said in an interview in Latvian with Sportacentrs, according to a translation by Eurohoops.net. "Because money - if Kristaps performs at least on his normal level, is gonna come. We are more focused on some other values and not just to quickly sign a new contract so we can collect the money. That's definitely not our goal, so we won't be feverishly counting minutes or counting points. You can't escape the reality and the Knicks must also see that.

He had threatened to play his fifth season under the 7.5 mil qualifying offer in order to become a UFA.

Had that come to pass we would not have received good offers knowing that any team that wanted him would just have to wait.


He left because he didn't like the direction of the team. This is all on the guys that you said "don't fuck around". We are running out of rebuild plans my friends. Whose to say this doesn't happen again with the next great young talent that we draft when he realizes he has nothing to gain by staying with a lost franchise that can't get it right? 

Max FA's - KD, Irving, others? You guys are smoking crack.
Title: Re: Sobering realization
Post by: Kam on January 31, 2019, 09:46:58 PM
Quote from: Merciless on January 31, 2019, 09:45:01 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 31, 2019, 09:33:36 PM
KP had the power here.  Just because he was heading into RFA didn't make him ma shoe-in to stay here. His agent said as much.

"The most important question here is this: What do you really want to achieve in your career?" Janis Porzingis said in an interview in Latvian with Sportacentrs, according to a translation by Eurohoops.net. "Because money - if Kristaps performs at least on his normal level, is gonna come. We are more focused on some other values and not just to quickly sign a new contract so we can collect the money. That's definitely not our goal, so we won't be feverishly counting minutes or counting points. You can't escape the reality and the Knicks must also see that.

He had threatened to play his fifth season under the 7.5 mil qualifying offer in order to become a UFA.

Had that come to pass we would not have received good offers knowing that any team that wanted him would just have to wait.


He left because he didn't like the direction of the team.

He doesn't understand what a rebuild looks like. 

Hey Dum-Dum (not you Miras... KP)

Hey Dum-Dum ... we took this direction when your ass got hurt.

He aint a dummy... he knows this "direction of the team" thing is a smokescreen.

"We are more focused on other values"

In other words.... he wants to play with  Luka, pay no state tax, and avoid 8 degree weather.

Rather than be 2nd fiddle to KD in NY or perhaps fearing being 1st fiddle in NY with no help a la Patrick Ewing.

Mazel tov!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 31, 2019, 10:22:29 PM
So this was a terrible trade.

Um, unless it was an amazing trade.

We'll know in 5 months or so.

Until then, blaming KP for wanting to go? Do we really have to do that? These are men, not children.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Merciless on January 31, 2019, 10:39:13 PM
5 months? So color me confused.

Are we rebuilding or are we back in the FA race? Who in their right mind comes here and plays with our current crop of players? Wasn't KP the real appeal of coming here.

We already know Mills is a no-nothing idiot -- Perry is right on his tail it seems.

Leadership? These cats have changed their course yet again after preaching patience.

This is a new low. They flat-out panicked and were fleeced by the Mavs. Draft picks? Fucking meaningless when they come from a competitive team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 31, 2019, 10:40:27 PM
Have to wonder - Dallas is 5 games out - do they try to make a run in getting KP back - or do they tank?

I am guessing we hear some glowing stuff out of Dallas tomorrow on THJ.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 31, 2019, 10:57:29 PM
I don't blame KP for wanting out.

I'm just saying don't blame the Front Office for making this deal.
Title: Kam(s)ter the Non-Armenian.
Post by: carlos123 on January 31, 2019, 10:58:34 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 31, 2019, 07:51:51 PM
Some of my best friends are Armenian.

 (https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/IK0aq-L5NAS7cL738NAxKdtLLRPbysrTK4Pgp6qMnvRqdGql0riRLRvXKEWKodUltaRmLVLLiZEj7M0MHaApxKgC7VjCGSxYx-qomy67GYZyh2fMWUaKY9KRI_KOFeGYz6vC-GdpPbUstCXpbFnM9czNeOPYZQl1UPrwmIAuwiQhNvDDzKxUE4wVFvgId37gL4bZ3U3IXIRwQPp0L5nELHkjbDPzHRzUUU76ZG7niip8kaeF45Kfb03U7SPEWko4favzfXRMtuZml_fj_NNxEKXQT8v4kT56r9-MXTNoh89jlcgMD0Y1ve3FjdBle-jt9ceBpIBnDWZY_2w0diq_Csspf-xtb8upgh-shp5E_Hdv3VktnnX4XvpoXbC174ZlVDr67sqABXi2Z9L1Klt5cw7E7NQT9UO3o4XvAqRYfhfemoMsW3jbmPgB45i1atpMxlVX6dtbTF0gjI4GXFOoUlOUzrqFBZTyQBlXC9-dg2GFHQIcoScunqbhknSLdo66bgnKSbJCB2r6bQCehF82v1fqK74mhbidh8NaliClusjZzI8jzP96p_4Rx2e-W0vH1T2fcjKA9A19Scd5xPLhoyOE0mwuIrPuhpwiPi-7FR_JiLq3zcMtVsFy8sGTkte7vlux670u7uzQ15GsLadOEHtv=w1138-h758-no)

Now that we don't have KP, the Kam(s)ter is ok with keeping EK.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 31, 2019, 10:59:11 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 31, 2019, 10:40:27 PM
Have to wonder - Dallas is 5 games out - do they try to make a run in getting KP back - or do they tank?

I am guessing we hear some glowing stuff out of Dallas tomorrow on THJ.

Atlanta gets the pick so they have no incentive to tank, right?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 31, 2019, 11:00:47 PM
Why is everything i say twisted into being Anti-Kanter.  I haven't said anything bad about the guy whose teams all get better after trading him.


Oops.
Title: The Kam(s)ter changes his mind
Post by: carlos123 on January 31, 2019, 11:06:48 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 31, 2019, 11:00:47 PM
Why is everything i say twisted into being Anti-Kanter.  I haven't said anything bad about the guy whose teams all get better after trading him.


Oops.

No, no. Me and Enes thought you were now ok with keeping him.

I guess Recep told you off.


Oops.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 31, 2019, 11:10:23 PM
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Yk72bnhbaMI/XFPGhppmRMI/AAAAAAAAEhQ/Pjjl_-vE53cAXIaYfsh0fXJ7-J9UcqQbwCLcBGAs/s640/kanter.jpg)
Title: Re: The Kam(s)ter changes his mind
Post by: Kam on January 31, 2019, 11:11:29 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 31, 2019, 11:06:48 PM
Me and Enes thought you were now ok with keeping him.


What on earth gave you that idea?

I'm ok with keeping Kornet.
Title: Dallas
Post by: Kam on January 31, 2019, 11:14:41 PM
Did they just mortgage their future?  If KP signs and gets injured again that pick in 2023 could turn to Gold.

Luka and KP could become an Amazing Duo.  But even if they do...  is that enough?  Can they add more?
Title: Re: Dallas
Post by: Merciless on January 31, 2019, 11:19:33 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 31, 2019, 11:14:41 PM
Did they just mortgage their future?  If KP signs and gets injured again that pick in 2023 could turn to Gold.

Luka and KP could become an Amazing Duo.  But even if they do...  is that enough?  Can they add more?

Or the mofo becomes one of the top talents in the NBA for the next 15 years and its looked back on as one of the worst trades in Knicks history
Title: Re: Dallas
Post by: Kam on January 31, 2019, 11:23:51 PM
Quote from: Merciless on January 31, 2019, 11:19:33 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 31, 2019, 11:14:41 PM
Did they just mortgage their future?  If KP signs and gets injured again that pick in 2023 could turn to Gold.

Luka and KP could become an Amazing Duo.  But even if they do...  is that enough?  Can they add more?

Or the mofo becomes one of the top talents in the NBA for the next 15 years and its looked back on as one of the worst trades in Knicks history

Even if he is... they're in the West. 

KP has to leapfrog guys like Anthony Davis and Karl Anthony Towns for All-Star honors and playoff appearances.

To say nothing of the guys who are already Winners out West.

Can Dallas add a third player and form a super team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 31, 2019, 11:39:33 PM
Wows!

Knick return:
- Smith Jr. who the team wanted to ditch, was semi-exiled for 2 weeks.
- DeAndrethe Giant, who the team complained was dogging it early season.  There was even minor talk of a buyout.
- Wes' ending contract.
Dallas with the Sell Low trade win.

Sure Tim is overpaid and so is Courtly, but it took KZ to move them?!? You move KZ and get very little back?!?
There wasn't a better deal out there?

For DAL, right now Burke is better than Smith Jr.
Wes could prove useful if you can re-sign him in the $6M-$8M range.  Need some vets and he can be a solid reasonably 2-way wing.  Otherwise it's just Trier-Datsun-Franco.
No idea on DeAtheG for NYK.

Really this whole fiasco makes me think we should have kept Noah and ditched him in this mess.  He's an extra $6M clogging up next and nextnext year.  I guess we used the roster spot well, but still ...

Those 1st round picks are a ways out.  And unless KZ gets injured, DAL should be a good team and the picks around 20 or wherever. 

Was KZ really going to risk injury and play on a $7.5M one year contract?    Doubt it muchly.  You re-sign him to a big deal with the understanding that you'll try to move him to a good team if he's unhappy with the direction of the team.  I think once he was back and it was His Team again, with the depth we have, and an added FA, and a high pick, things would have gone fine.

KZ was the FA lure.  Now you have to get a FA tandem, because nobody wants to come to play with Knox and Smith Jr.
Maybe Knix were worried KZ would get injured again.  that's all I can see possible.  Otherwise it's a complete muck up.
Title: Re: Dallas
Post by: bodiddley on January 31, 2019, 11:40:57 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 31, 2019, 11:23:51 PM
Can Dallas add a third player and form a super team.

Harrison Barnes' time to shine ....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 01, 2019, 12:02:10 AM
Dallas also has Jalen Brunson and Dwight Powell and Maxi Kleber, all ready to play more minutes. Still, they're not even a lock for the playoffs next year (when they have their pick), but they certainly look better for the year after, when Luka's flirting with averaging a triple double and Porzingis presumably is healthy from his ACL tear.

I think:
- KP was ridiculously myopic about this, blaming this regime for Phil Jackson's insanity

- A bidding war still made sense. But not sure who else but Sacto could have given us all that cap space

- it's impossible to say if this is a good return or not. If you sign Kyrie and Durant it's the greatest Knicks trade ever, if you spend the money on max contracts for Bledsoe and an injured Boogie Cousins and DSJ never reaches so much as Dennis Schroder levels (and if Porzingis ever makes first team all-NBA) then it's one of the worst Knicks trades (there's a lot of competition there, mind). And there's all kinds of permutations in between. So it's tough to call it.

- I mean, what do you do with this: "Pick details via league memo: NYK receives next avail DAL 1st-rounder unprotected. Depending on when that happens, NYK then receives either DAL 2023, 2024, or 2025 1st-round pick-- top-10 protected in all three years. If they haven't received 1st by 2025, they get Mavs 2025 2nd."

- Ntilikina as a 2-guard next to DSJ makes more sense than him as a PG. I still like Ntilikina as a keeper. Mudiay, however, should be moved. Or DSJ should be moved. But with free agency coming, don't keep both.

- Vonleh now is a keeper! No matter who we sign, he makes sense. Kanter still has to go.

- We have more cap space than just for two max contracts - there will still be money left over for an MLE type contract to throw at Delon Wright

- There's a real chance next year's team has a host of depressing players, like Isaiah Thomas and DeAndre Jordan and Jabari Parker surrounding max contract Eric Bledsoe. But even then, we'd have our picks and a lot of youth. It's something. The catch: Fizdale gets a pass from me on this year...he hasn't exactly been Lloyd Pierce, but maybe he's still evolving as a coach. But there has to be actual cohesion next year.
Title: Hope
Post by: Kam on February 01, 2019, 12:12:07 AM
DSJ/Ntilikina
Jimmy Butler/Trier
Zion Williamson / Kevin Knox
Kevin Durant / Vonleh
DeAndre / Kornet / Mitch
Title: Re: Dallas
Post by: Kam on February 01, 2019, 12:21:07 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 31, 2019, 11:40:57 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 31, 2019, 11:23:51 PM
Can Dallas add a third player and form a super team.

Harrison Barnes' time to shine ....

We gave them Hardaway.  Be interesting to see how they use him. 
He is going to clog their cap.  When his contract falls off they will have to pay Luka.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 01, 2019, 12:28:12 AM
Well we got very little in return for Trey Burke.

I was hoping we could get at least a #2 for Mudiay.

But now i don't think so.

The Pacers?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 01, 2019, 12:36:42 AM
There is top 5 protection on Dallas’ pick conveying to Atlanta. If they land in the lottery, and get lucky, the pick goes to us & Atl has to wait until 2021. If we wind up with 2 guys in the top 5 this year, it would go a long way to dulling the breakup pain.

I hope we keep Jordan and Matthews around this year.

I think we are looking at more than 70 million in cap space if we don’t take on money in follow up trades.

Smith, Trier, Frank, and Dot, guys on our books next year, is a promising young backcourt. We should definitely eat into our Hoard to make QOs to Vonleh and Kornet.

We’ve also cleared a roster spot.

I wouldn’t wager this is the group we end out the year with.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Merciless on February 01, 2019, 12:41:34 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 31, 2019, 11:39:33 PM

Sure Tim is overpaid and so is Courtly, but it took KZ to move them?!? You move KZ and get very little back?!?
There wasn't a better deal out there?


Therein lies the rub...We got very little back for an All-Star with rare and unique talents to fix Mills' biggest mistake in THJ.

This team doesn't have much to offer any FA at this point in terms of BB goals so we're right back to 2010 all over again.

So what's their strategy....Hope?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 01, 2019, 12:58:16 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 01, 2019, 12:36:42 AM
There is top 5 protection on Dallas’ pick conveying to Atlanta. If they land in the lottery, and get lucky, the pick goes to us & Atl has to wait until 2021. If we wind up with 2 guys in the top 5 this year, it would go a long way to dulling the breakup pain.


Imagine that? 

What are the odds we get the Top 2 picks? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 01, 2019, 01:02:53 AM
We should ad CJ Fair on a ten day deal to push Mario and more importantly Knox.

The strategy is to develop skills and awareness in the players we’ve got, draft the best guys we can, then sign the best guys we can, then get them to play great together. How much confidence you have in this working out depends on how you read what has transpired so far.

I’m hoping for dramatic development that gets us close to but not actually winning games, insane lotto luck (1 & 2 please), great drafting, and a conservative approach to free agency. Paying Durant max money is conservative. I don’t have confidence in all this, but I do have hope.

We shall see.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 01, 2019, 01:06:19 AM
Quote from: Kam on February 01, 2019, 12:58:16 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 01, 2019, 12:36:42 AM
There is top 5 protection on Dallas’ pick conveying to Atlanta. If they land in the lottery, and get lucky, the pick goes to us & Atl has to wait until 2021. If we wind up with 2 guys in the top 5 this year, it would go a long way to dulling the breakup pain.


Imagine that? 

What are the odds we get the Top 2 picks?

Dallas could finish as low as 6 or 7 from the bottom or as high as 12 or 13. So basically not good odds.
Title: Today was ridiculous
Post by: Kam on February 01, 2019, 01:16:20 AM
Either it was an Amazingly Good or Amazingly Bad day for the Franchise.

Either way.  It was important.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 01, 2019, 01:26:17 AM
Kornet Robinson
Leonard Vonleh
Durant Knox
Dotson Ntilikina
Smith Trier

A lotto pick or 2, second rounder, and a ring chaser or two. If you don’t like KD & KL, but need a mind blowing fantasy, try a Boogie, Durant, and Zion front-court.

Luka is exactly what KP needs, and we currently do not have one. Also a nice slide from Dirk for the Dallas fans.

Here’s hoping it works as well for us.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 01, 2019, 01:30:56 AM
Hope is all we have.

The team gave itself a lot more options today and upped it's probability of salvation.  Or it didn't. 

Anybody who says they know doesn't know.

We just have to see.

Is this a riskier road or was not making this deal riskier?

We just have to see.
Title: Re: Hope
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 01, 2019, 01:34:16 AM
Quote from: Kam on February 01, 2019, 12:12:07 AM
DSJ/Ntilikina
Jimmy Butler/Trier
Zion Williamson / Kevin Knox
Kevin Durant / Vonleh
DeAndre / Kornet / Mitch
start
Zion won't be playing 3, at all. Replace DeAndre with, say, the aforementioned Delon Wright, start Mitch or Vonleh, and you've got a team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 01, 2019, 01:35:08 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 01, 2019, 12:36:42 AM
There is top 5 protection on Dallas’ pick conveying to Atlanta. If they land in the lottery, and get lucky, the pick goes to us & Atl has to wait until 2021. /quote]

Are we sure about this? This makes Dallas losing kind of a big deal! Even in a terrible draft. Come on Luka, sprain an ankle!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 01, 2019, 01:49:09 AM
http://www.tankathon.com/ (http://www.tankathon.com/)

I played and Dallas got the #2 pick and we got the #5 pick.  it said the pick was not conveyed to Atlanta because of 1-5 protection. 


So we would get both!


woo!


We have a 52.1 % Chance at a Top 4 pick and Dallas has a 9.4% chance at a Top 4 pick.

We have a 14% chance at the #1 and Dallas as a 2% chance at the #1
Title: We traded KP for some Powerball tickets
Post by: Kam on February 01, 2019, 01:52:29 AM
Essentially
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on February 01, 2019, 02:06:14 AM
Wow knix are totally in. I like it, I remember the Allan Houston comebacks which cost them a decade. I like rich FAs over comeback kids. Knix have their PGs in mud and Smith, swing in trier, KK and tons of cap space.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 01, 2019, 02:11:29 AM
Quote from: Kam on February 01, 2019, 01:49:09 AM

We have a 52.1 % Chance at a Top 4 pick and Dallas has a 9.4% chance at a Top 4 pick.

We have a 14% chance at the #1 and Dallas as a 2% chance at the #1

All Knicks fans must now root for teams like Orlando, Detroit, Washington, New Orleans, and Minnesota to win and Dallas to lose.

That 9.4% chance jumps to 13.9% and then 20% and then 26% with each team that Dallas falls behind.

Wait... WHAT AM I SAYING?   They got Timmy.   We are all set!
Title: Re: We traded KP for some Powerball tickets
Post by: facilitatorn on February 01, 2019, 03:29:14 AM
Quote from: Kam on February 01, 2019, 01:52:29 AM
Essentially
A year of KP at the qualifying offer then “adios, amigo” for powerball plus getting to the clean sheet a year earlier.

Jordan, Vonleh, Knox, Matthews, and Smith should be fun to watch for 20 something games.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 01, 2019, 05:23:11 AM
The Pistons helped us out tonight. Another loss for Dallas.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 01, 2019, 05:48:56 AM
Can't see how it's anything but a home run for DAL.\
Of course KZ can get re-injured.  But any player can gte hurt.
Otherwise they added a 2nd star to go with their prized rook.  Their skills blend, they know and like ach other already.  KZ is 23 and Luka 19 or whatever.  And they only traded 3 guys not in their plans (they might have re-signed Wes at a mid-level rate), and some future #1's when they expect to be competitive.  And they guys they added form NYC can play and fill in even if overpaid.  Burke a Barea replacement for this year. 

DAL: A+

NYK?
Mills said, "you don't want to commit a max [contract] to a player who clearly says to you he doesn't want to be here."
Uh, why not?  Then he's an asset and a trade chip.
And a rehab year isn't easy.
KZ gets on the court and could easily change his mind, enjoy playing with Trier and Knox and Mitch -- guys he's never played with before.
And the Knix new 1st round pick would make a difference as well.
We should have built around KZ, and made him happy.

I don't see KZ coming off a severe injury doing a 1 year $7.5M high risk deal.  Lock in a max deal and you have $150M or whatever guaranteed.  You take the payday and decide where you want to be later.  And Mills' statement seems to confirm what I'm saying.

Why Sell Low on KZ (unsigned, hasn't returned to the court yet), when getting not much at all back?  Just cap space.  And erratic Smith Jr.

Worth noting that Durant couldn't win with Westbrook and Kyrie having trouble with an absolutely loaded Celt team.  Knix are going to be so far below the min salary next year that if we don't add 2 max players, we'll need to give out some inflated 1 year deals just to reach the mandatory floor.

NYK: D -
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 01, 2019, 08:42:19 AM
Trier is a club option.  So not on rolls for 19-20

Just Knox MitchFrank Dennis and our #1
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 01, 2019, 08:44:20 AM
Alarming stat

Charlie Ward was the last draft pick we extended
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on February 01, 2019, 09:05:04 AM
Am I the only one who knows Durant is 30 years old, and after 30 the body and skillset starts decreasing.  I'd much rather a Kyrie and Boogie deal.  Boogie played good next to Davis in Narleans.  Kyrie, Dennis, Knox, Boogie, Mitch.  Thats a hellohvuh starting five.  All young, Kyrie drives the team, Dennis takes over when he needs a rest, We got Trier in the wings.  Also unlike everybody else in the forum I like Kanter.  People downplay the importance of offensive rebounds.  Kanter gets them all. He is definitely an asset. and he is young.  Defense can be taught.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on February 01, 2019, 09:07:26 AM
Correction, KP is injured. Mavs messages seem very against trade. They like Jordan and Smith has nice numbers. Gamble is all with Mavs, can KP get back to form?

New York Knicks guard Allonzo Trier -- a rookie revelation on a two-way contract --- has signed a new deal, the team announced Thursday.

The deal is for two years, $7 million with a team option for the second year, sources told ESPN.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 01, 2019, 10:59:03 AM
Quote from: Kam on February 01, 2019, 01:49:09 AM
http://www.tankathon.com/ (http://www.tankathon.com/)

I played and Dallas got the #2 pick and we got the #5 pick.  it said the pick was not conveyed to Atlanta because of 1-5 protection. 


So we would get both!


woo!


We have a 52.1 % Chance at a Top 4 pick and Dallas has a 9.4% chance at a Top 4 pick.

We have a 14% chance at the #1 and Dallas as a 2% chance at the #1

I think Tankathon will change this. I don't think Dallas is in a position to trade that pick given the prior agreement with Atlanta. We should definitely not hope Dallas moves up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 01, 2019, 11:08:48 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 01, 2019, 05:48:56 AM

Why Sell Low on KZ (unsigned, hasn't returned to the court yet), when getting not much at all back?  Just cap space.  And erratic Smith Jr.


Yup, extremely expensive erasure of a GM's mistake.

What if we go a different way? What if coach plays to win. Everybody looks better when they're playing with a team, like a team.He instills some defense rather than cruising to last in the league. Puts in a coherent offense rather than just go shoot. Young ones still get plenty of time, but Joerger or Atkinson style, in the service of ball. They actually learn something. Meanwhile,  Lee's value maximized. He was coming off an excellent year. Team play helps THJ look better. He clearly came into this season pumped and ready to go. We're sitting in the 7 or 8 spot. Then, bet you can move your guys at the trade deadline with minimal pain, without attaching the most promising two-way player we've had in a gen.  Increase your guys value not destroy it, imagine that! Then, after they're moved, as much Kornet and Kadeem time as you like, drift down to 3-4-5 in the second half. Functionally not much different then 1-2-3. This is not your father's lotto, really. You win Zion or you don't. But there's no actual path to losing your way to him. Plus, the house looks much more attractive to free agents. Did you see that? Fiz had those guys winning a few. He's got something good going on. I want to be a part of that. With Porzingis coming back and Barrett or Ja or Zion or whoever coming on. And you've actually built something.

This can still all work out. An unprotected pick can always turn to gold if things go wrong at the other end. A bum in the garbage dump can win lotto. But make no mistake, most expensive failure cover up ever.



*** And then, of course, there are the aesthetic and emotional rewards of such an alternate path.   I watch basketball because seeing the game played well gives me pleasure, not for the # of championship trophies my home team possesses. Which is a good thing. Since my home team hasn't earned any since I was 8 years old. Seeing repeated self-immolations is far less rewarding to me than seeing something develop and grow.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 01, 2019, 11:58:56 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on February 01, 2019, 10:59:03 AM
Quote from: Kam on February 01, 2019, 01:49:09 AM
http://www.tankathon.com/ (http://www.tankathon.com/)

I played and Dallas got the #2 pick and we got the #5 pick.  it said the pick was not conveyed to Atlanta because of 1-5 protection. 


So we would get both!


woo!


We have a 52.1 % Chance at a Top 4 pick and Dallas has a 9.4% chance at a Top 4 pick.

We have a 14% chance at the #1 and Dallas as a 2% chance at the #1

I think Tankathon will change this. I don't think Dallas is in a position to trade that pick given the prior agreement with Atlanta. We should definitely not hope Dallas moves up.

They can trade the pick because it is still theirs if it is top 5.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 01, 2019, 12:17:40 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 01, 2019, 11:58:56 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on February 01, 2019, 10:59:03 AM
Quote from: Kam on February 01, 2019, 01:49:09 AM
http://www.tankathon.com/ (http://www.tankathon.com/)

I played and Dallas got the #2 pick and we got the #5 pick.  it said the pick was not conveyed to Atlanta because of 1-5 protection. 


So we would get both!


woo!


We have a 52.1 % Chance at a Top 4 pick and Dallas has a 9.4% chance at a Top 4 pick.

We have a 14% chance at the #1 and Dallas as a 2% chance at the #1

I think Tankathon will change this. I don't think Dallas is in a position to trade that pick given the prior agreement with Atlanta. We should definitely not hope Dallas moves up.

They can trade the pick because it is still theirs if it is top 5.

Tankathon has already fixed this - top five picks are now being retained by Dallas, correctly. They cannot trade the pick, but they can remove the protection and let it to go directly to Atlanta (which they aren't going to). The pick next year is promised to Atlanta if this year's doesn't convey and you cannot send out two picks in a rule due to the Stepian Rule, so, in fact, the first pick the Knicks can get is in 2021, not this year. If Dallas keeps their pick by landing in the top 5, the Knicks won't get a pick until 2022, and at that point the Mavs will have not only added a top-5 pick this year but also had an extra year for Luka to approach MVP levels and to sort out the supporting cast. All that said - one should definitely, definitely not hope for the Mavs to move up in the draft. In fact, there is little downside to the Mavs winning.

Don't want the Kings to move up in the draft, Celtics own that pick.
Don't want the Lakers to move up in the draft, in case there's any chance Davis ends up in NY.
Don't want the Mavs to move up in the draft for the aforementioned reasons.

Anyone else, especially in the West, and it doesn't matter except to the extent it means the Knicks have moved down in the draft.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 01, 2019, 12:38:38 PM
Then it was a bad trade.
Title: By the way
Post by: Kam on February 01, 2019, 12:55:25 PM
Fuck Unicorn

(https://res.cloudinary.com/teepublic/image/private/s--Kq9XpqKg--/t_Preview/b_rgb:c62b29,c_limit,f_jpg,h_630,q_90,w_630/v1536057911/production/designs/3107624_0.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 01, 2019, 01:09:54 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 01, 2019, 05:48:56 AM
I don't see KZ coming off a severe injury doing a 1 year $7.5M high risk deal.  Lock in a max deal and you have $150M or whatever guaranteed.  You take the payday and decide where you want to be later.  And Mills' statement seems to confirm what I'm saying.

Why Sell Low on KZ (unsigned, hasn't returned to the court yet), when getting not much at all back?  Just cap space.  And erratic Smith Jr.

Worth noting that Durant couldn't win with Westbrook and Kyrie having trouble with an absolutely loaded Celt team.  Knix are going to be so far below the min salary next year that if we don't add 2 max players, we'll need to give out some inflated 1 year deals just to reach the mandatory floor.

NYK: D -

I don't see an unhappy KP recruiting anyone to come here this summer.   We let chumps like Carmelo and Kanter poison his mind.   

Don't like the direction... we are fucking tanking you big doofus!  Because you can't stay upright. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 01, 2019, 01:12:16 PM
Don't think we will be drafting any Euro players anymore.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 01, 2019, 01:39:26 PM
Didn’t Perry take Mario?

Hopefully we get guys who are more dog than hype and the players we get are good together soon.

Time to buy out Kanter.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 01, 2019, 01:47:28 PM
I'm mad at KP. Fuck you dude.  You have nothing but boos coming.

I can be mad at the Knicks but I have no insight into if there were  better deals coming. 

I have to believe the Knicks did what was best for the Knicks.

Just like KP and his bro were only looking out for themselves.

KP posted a pic of him and Luka before posting a picture thanking the NY fans.

Boo this man.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 01, 2019, 02:08:13 PM
https://twitter.com/rex_rexchapman/status/1091111908743163904 (https://twitter.com/rex_rexchapman/status/1091111908743163904)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: NeedsAdjustments on February 01, 2019, 02:54:21 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 01, 2019, 01:47:28 PM
I have to believe the Knicks did what was best for the Knicks.

What in the history of Knicks management over the last 20+ years would lead you to "have" to believe that?  Has anything they have done over that period been what is best for the Knicks?

You can choose to believe it.  If you want.  But Howard Beck, for one, says the trade talk wasn't a demand.  That it came up in discussions.  Leads me to believe that Knicks management could have/should have been able to convince Kristaps to give this a shot.  He hasn't played for Fiz, hasn't played with Knox, hasn't played with their upcoming top draft pick...This wasn't a requirement.

I can't think of a team that traded their franchise player in his early twenties and then went on to greatness.  Can you?  And to do that just to clear cap space?

I have to believe the Knicks did a trade that will turn out to be dumb.  Thats the history.  And thats what it looks like now.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Merciless on February 01, 2019, 03:11:41 PM
Quote from: NeedsAdjustments on February 01, 2019, 02:54:21 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 01, 2019, 01:47:28 PM
I have to believe the Knicks did what was best for the Knicks.

What in the history of Knicks management over the last 20+ years would lead you to "have" to believe that?  Has anything they have done over that period been what is best for the Knicks?

You can choose to believe it.  If you want.  But Howard Beck, for one, says the trade talk wasn't a demand.  That it came up in discussions.  Leads me to believe that Knicks management could have/should have been able to convince Kristaps to give this a shot.  He hasn't played for Fiz, hasn't played with Knox, hasn't played with their upcoming top draft pick...This wasn't a requirement.

I can't think of a team that traded their franchise player in his early twenties and then went on to greatness.  Can you?  And to do that just to clear cap space?

I have to believe the Knicks did a trade that will turn out to be dumb.  Thats the history.  And thats what it looks like now.

Finally the voice of reason.

Not sure what is more maddening, the Knicks trade or Kam and others embracing yet another reboot and change in direction.

(https://thecomeback.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Porzingis-banner-768x416.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on February 01, 2019, 04:14:44 PM
Maybe they saw the medical reports and decided it was a good time to eject. Could be why he was not extended. If so it was a fantastic deal. Antonio McDyess was never the same after knee surgery?
Title: Medical reports
Post by: carlos123 on February 01, 2019, 04:21:13 PM
Luee, I’m pretty sure Dallas looked them up too. They’re not as dumb as the Knicks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 01, 2019, 04:24:31 PM
https://twitter.com/RyanWardLA/status/1091434072117628928 (https://twitter.com/RyanWardLA/status/1091434072117628928)

Conventional wisdom is Hawks made a mistake.  I am not so sure.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 01, 2019, 04:28:24 PM
Quote from: Merciless on February 01, 2019, 03:11:41 PM
Quote from: NeedsAdjustments on February 01, 2019, 02:54:21 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 01, 2019, 01:47:28 PM
I have to believe the Knicks did what was best for the Knicks.

What in the history of Knicks management over the last 20+ years would lead you to "have" to believe that?  Has anything they have done over that period been what is best for the Knicks?

You can choose to believe it.  If you want.  But Howard Beck, for one, says the trade talk wasn't a demand.  That it came up in discussions.  Leads me to believe that Knicks management could have/should have been able to convince Kristaps to give this a shot.  He hasn't played for Fiz, hasn't played with Knox, hasn't played with their upcoming top draft pick...This wasn't a requirement.

I can't think of a team that traded their franchise player in his early twenties and then went on to greatness.  Can you?  And to do that just to clear cap space?

I have to believe the Knicks did a trade that will turn out to be dumb.  Thats the history.  And thats what it looks like now.

Finally the voice of reason.

Not sure what is more maddening, the Knicks trade or Kam and others embracing yet another reboot and change in direction.

(https://thecomeback.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Porzingis-banner-768x416.jpg)

Don't put words in my mouth. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 01, 2019, 04:30:11 PM
Quote from: NeedsAdjustments on February 01, 2019, 02:54:21 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 01, 2019, 01:47:28 PM
I have to believe the Knicks did what was best for the Knicks.

What in the history of Knicks management over the last 20+ years would lead you to "have" to believe that?  Has anything they have done over that period been what is best for the Knicks?

You can choose to believe it.  If you want.  But Howard Beck, for one, says the trade talk wasn't a demand.  That it came up in discussions.  Leads me to believe that Knicks management could have/should have been able to convince Kristaps to give this a shot.  He hasn't played for Fiz, hasn't played with Knox, hasn't played with their upcoming top draft pick...This wasn't a requirement.

I can't think of a team that traded their franchise player in his early twenties and then went on to greatness.  Can you?  And to do that just to clear cap space?

I have to believe the Knicks did a trade that will turn out to be dumb.  Thats the history.  And thats what it looks like now.

Don't cherry pick what i wrote

Quote
I can be mad at the Knicks but I have no insight into if there were  better deals coming. 

I have to believe the Knicks did what was best for the Knicks.

Nobody knows yet you all act like you know.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 01, 2019, 04:31:59 PM
Quote from: NeedsAdjustments on February 01, 2019, 02:54:21 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 01, 2019, 01:47:28 PM
I have to believe the Knicks did what was best for the Knicks.

What in the history of Knicks management over the last 20+ years would lead you to "have" to believe that?  Has anything they have done over that period been what is best for the Knicks?

You can choose to believe it.  If you want.  But Howard Beck, for one, says the trade talk wasn't a demand.  That it came up in discussions.  Leads me to believe that Knicks management could have/should have been able to convince Kristaps to give this a shot.  He hasn't played for Fiz, hasn't played with Knox, hasn't played with their upcoming top draft pick...This wasn't a requirement.

I can't think of a team that traded their franchise player in his early twenties and then went on to greatness.  Can you?  And to do that just to clear cap space?

I have to believe the Knicks did a trade that will turn out to be dumb.  Thats the history.  And thats what it looks like now.

KP and his brother have been dicks from the very beginning

I dont see how this turns out bad.  Are you really going to say, "yeah, we have_________________ but could have been so much better if we kept KP"?

Think about what you are saying.  We didnt even have enough to pay max to a 7 year vet.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on February 01, 2019, 05:01:40 PM
In the shadow of the hit and run/pick and roll to Dallas trade, and with renewed speculation that KI may not re-sign with the Celts, It should be an interesting event at MSG tonight.

My Knick win guestimate of (IIRC 22-24) assumed KP would be back by late January.

I probably should look at a slighly lower total,
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on February 01, 2019, 05:05:25 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 31, 2019, 09:41:09 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on January 31, 2019, 09:37:21 PM


I like what the leadership is trying to do. I think our approach has more of a chance to finally lead us to where our less reactive fans have been begging for us to go for ages.


This trade is the logical conclusion to the old  "Nagel Rule" philosophy.  Clear the decks.  We had to dump Lee and Jr. to be players in free agency.  This is the first time we have had enough money to land Two big name free agents.  Rectifying the mistake of 2010 where we pitched LeBron no running mate.

Also i think Brooklyn having more space made the Knicks nervous.

Also sounds like we still could be players for AD, as rumors are we're still a team he'd be down to join. With 7 #1 picks in 5 years we have that plus other young players we could use as part of a package to land him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on February 01, 2019, 05:08:33 PM
Quote from: Merciless on January 31, 2019, 10:39:13 PM
5 months? So color me confused.

Are we rebuilding or are we back in the FA race? Who in their right mind comes here and plays with our current crop of players? Wasn't KP the real appeal of coming here.

We already know Mills is a no-nothing idiot -- Perry is right on his tail it seems.

Leadership? These cats have changed their course yet again after preaching patience.

This is a new low. They flat-out panicked and were fleeced by the Mavs. Draft picks? Fucking meaningless when they come from a competitive team.

We could actually be trying for a big 3, not just 2 max FA's, somewhat on DL with this trade.

After that you will have loads of vets FA's lining up to join a KD, Kyrie, AD partnership (if it comes to pass)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on February 01, 2019, 05:11:59 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 31, 2019, 10:40:27 PM
Have to wonder - Dallas is 5 games out - do they try to make a run in getting KP back - or do they tank?

I am guessing we hear some glowing stuff out of Dallas tomorrow on THJ.

Kid, I wonder if this is what KP meant when he posted, "The truth will come out."

Maybe he's "fit" to play, or close to it, and Knicks didn't want to risk him, as well as holding him out to get a better asset by increasing chances of getting a higher pick, instead of trying to win a few more games, like we always have tried, annoyed many of us, and has done us absolutely no good in the past.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on February 01, 2019, 05:12:31 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 31, 2019, 11:00:47 PM
Why is everything i say twisted into being Anti-Kanter.  I haven't said anything bad about the guy whose teams all get better after trading him.


Oops.

You're hysterical, bro.
Title: Re: Dallas
Post by: PrezIke on February 01, 2019, 05:19:48 PM
Quote from: Merciless on January 31, 2019, 11:19:33 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 31, 2019, 11:14:41 PM
Did they just mortgage their future?  If KP signs and gets injured again that pick in 2023 could turn to Gold.

Luka and KP could become an Amazing Duo.  But even if they do...  is that enough?  Can they add more?

Or the mofo becomes one of the top talents in the NBA for the next 15 years and its looked back on as one of the worst trades in Knicks history

Or that happens and we still turn what we've done into a 2 or 3 superstar combo team that competes for the titles every year.

Or something in between.

Look at the Melo deal. It was bad for us, but a lot of those players have not had the careers some hoped. Gallo is good, but what some hoped here who were enamored, while Wilson has had a good career and now a solid starter on a top team. Felton barely in the NBA and Moz was valuable at one time, but is badly injured and has a bad contract. The draft picks have not been all that I think. So it wasn't great for anyone really.

It ain't so clear its one or the other, or what just yet, but bottom line is KP wanted to go, so this idea that we "call his bluff" as I read Zach Lowe post, is a huge risk that could have led us to, as Kam wrote, get nothing for him at all.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on February 01, 2019, 05:41:44 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 31, 2019, 11:39:33 PM
Wows!

Knick return:
- Smith Jr. who the team wanted to ditch, was semi-exiled for 2 weeks.
- DeAndrethe Giant, who the team complained was dogging it early season.  There was even minor talk of a buyout.
- Wes' ending contract.
Dallas with the Sell Low trade win.

Sure Tim is overpaid and so is Courtly, but it took KZ to move them?!? You move KZ and get very little back?!?
There wasn't a better deal out there?

For DAL, right now Burke is better than Smith Jr.
Wes could prove useful if you can re-sign him in the $6M-$8M range.  Need some vets and he can be a solid reasonably 2-way wing.  Otherwise it's just Trier-Datsun-Franco.
No idea on DeAtheG for NYK.

Really this whole fiasco makes me think we should have kept Noah and ditched him in this mess.  He's an extra $6M clogging up next and nextnext year.  I guess we used the roster spot well, but still ...

Those 1st round picks are a ways out.  And unless KZ gets injured, DAL should be a good team and the picks around 20 or wherever. 

Was KZ really going to risk injury and play on a $7.5M one year contract?    Doubt it muchly.  You re-sign him to a big deal with the understanding that you'll try to move him to a good team if he's unhappy with the direction of the team.  I think once he was back and it was His Team again, with the depth we have, and an added FA, and a high pick, things would have gone fine.

KZ was the FA lure.  Now you have to get a FA tandem, because nobody wants to come to play with Knox and Smith Jr.
Maybe Knix were worried KZ would get injured again.  that's all I can see possible.  Otherwise it's a complete muck up.

How did we get little back, bo?

We dumped THJ's awful contract and inefficient shooting, plus unload Lee's making us one of 3 players for 2 max FA's this summer (Clips & Nets), and got 2 #1 picks, plus a youngin some fans wanted badly over Frank and whined all last season about, and does have potential at 21.

You should listen to that Nate Duncan pod I posted. They really favor the Knicks in the trade, even though its a risk for them too, and think the Mavs are taking a huge gamble.

KP made this happen through his poor attitude over the past few seasons about being here, although blame does need to be placed on Phil at a minimum.

We are trying to build a team the right way (FINALLY) and his bloated ego and injury prone self (let's be real here, he's never played a full 82 games and has missed more games each season since he was drafted - 72, 66, 48, 0). With his size there are major?s about that as this could be a problem. His brother, who I think is also part of the problem, hinting KP could do things to become an UFA, possibly leaving the Knicks...for nothing. He's not playing on the court, so of course we're trash, so not sure what he expected, and we clearly wanted to sign at least 1 FA this summer.

Yet, that could be too much of an unknown for KD, Kyrie, etc. even as much of a once in a lifetime talent he is.

We reportedly were looking at other teams interested in him, but none could offer the kind of player you'd get in return for his value, or would take on THJ's and Lee's contracts, plus give us 2 #1's and a young talent. If KP was playing and showing who we know he can be, then I hear you, but his value is lower because of this. That pod I referred to, actually said this deal makes more sense if KP was fit, so they actually have the opposite POV.

It may not all work, but I don't think this is the same as when Donnie did things wrong in 2010. The big ? is if we whiff how will we play it. I don't think we will just sign mediocre FA's, but hold the fort with all of the assets we have and maintain PATIENCE.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on February 01, 2019, 05:55:31 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on February 01, 2019, 12:02:10 AM
Dallas also has Jalen Brunson and Dwight Powell and Maxi Kleber, all ready to play more minutes. Still, they're not even a lock for the playoffs next year (when they have their pick), but they certainly look better for the year after, when Luka's flirting with averaging a triple double and Porzingis presumably is healthy from his ACL tear.

I think:
- KP was ridiculously myopic about this, blaming this regime for Phil Jackson's insanity

- A bidding war still made sense. But not sure who else but Sacto could have given us all that cap space

- it's impossible to say if this is a good return or not. If you sign Kyrie and Durant it's the greatest Knicks trade ever, if you spend the money on max contracts for Bledsoe and an injured Boogie Cousins and DSJ never reaches so much as Dennis Schroder levels (and if Porzingis ever makes first team all-NBA) then it's one of the worst Knicks trades (there's a lot of competition there, mind). And there's all kinds of permutations in between. So it's tough to call it.

- I mean, what do you do with this: "Pick details via league memo: NYK receives next avail DAL 1st-rounder unprotected. Depending on when that happens, NYK then receives either DAL 2023, 2024, or 2025 1st-round pick-- top-10 protected in all three years. If they haven't received 1st by 2025, they get Mavs 2025 2nd."

- Ntilikina as a 2-guard next to DSJ makes more sense than him as a PG. I still like Ntilikina as a keeper. Mudiay, however, should be moved. Or DSJ should be moved. But with free agency coming, don't keep both.

- Vonleh now is a keeper! No matter who we sign, he makes sense. Kanter still has to go.

- We have more cap space than just for two max contracts - there will still be money left over for an MLE type contract to throw at Delon Wright

- There's a real chance next year's team has a host of depressing players, like Isaiah Thomas and DeAndre Jordan and Jabari Parker surrounding max contract Eric Bledsoe. But even then, we'd have our picks and a lot of youth. It's something. The catch: Fizdale gets a pass from me on this year...he hasn't exactly been Lloyd Pierce, but maybe he's still evolving as a coach. But there has to be actual cohesion next year.

Interestingly, and correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that if we end up with the #1 pick we won't actually have enough for 2 max contracts due to the cap hold for that slot.

https://twitter.com/KnickFilmSchool/status/1091433134405705728

We'd have to renounce IsoZo, sadly.

Noah's contract is so infuriating, and many of us were against it from the moment we heard about it. Phil set us back so far it's nuts. Mills THJ signing was also insane, but whatever, at least that's finally gone.

No fool would trade for a 2 year dead cap contract of that amount, even with what they got although I'd bet we tried to put it into the deal. If KP was not so injury prone then we might have been able to include it.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on February 01, 2019, 06:13:11 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 01, 2019, 05:48:56 AM
Can't see how it's anything but a home run for DAL.\
Of course KZ can get re-injured.  But any player can gte hurt.
Otherwise they added a 2nd star to go with their prized rook.  Their skills blend, they know and like ach other already.  KZ is 23 and Luka 19 or whatever.  And they only traded 3 guys not in their plans (they might have re-signed Wes at a mid-level rate), and some future #1's when they expect to be competitive.  And they guys they added form NYC can play and fill in even if overpaid.  Burke a Barea replacement for this year. 

DAL: A+

NYK?
Mills said, "you don't want to commit a max [contract] to a player who clearly says to you he doesn't want to be here."
Uh, why not?  Then he's an asset and a trade chip.
And a rehab year isn't easy.
KZ gets on the court and could easily change his mind, enjoy playing with Trier and Knox and Mitch -- guys he's never played with before.
And the Knix new 1st round pick would make a difference as well.
We should have built around KZ, and made him happy.

I don't see KZ coming off a severe injury doing a 1 year $7.5M high risk deal.  Lock in a max deal and you have $150M or whatever guaranteed.  You take the payday and decide where you want to be later.  And Mills' statement seems to confirm what I'm saying.

Why Sell Low on KZ (unsigned, hasn't returned to the court yet), when getting not much at all back?  Just cap space.  And erratic Smith Jr.

Worth noting that Durant couldn't win with Westbrook and Kyrie having trouble with an absolutely loaded Celt team.  Knix are going to be so far below the min salary next year that if we don't add 2 max players, we'll need to give out some inflated 1 year deals just to reach the mandatory floor.

NYK: D -

Any player? Umm, don't you mean a 7' 3" player with a track record for injuries already and the last one that is arguably one of the THE WORST for taking athleticism from people?

He has to agree to sign the contract. He's clearly threatening to possibly bounce as a UFA. You're making a big assumption that he wouldn't do a 1 year deal. This is not a normal situation. Do you recall, or have you read what his brother and agent said last year:

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/11/kristaps-porzingis-knicks-contract-brother-warning

Quote
“The most important question here is this: What do you really want to achieve in your career? Because money – if Kristaps performs at least on his normal level, is gonna come. We are more focused on some other values and not just to quickly sign a new contract so we can collect the money. That’s definitely not our goal, so we won’t be feverishly counting minutes or counting points.”

“You can’t escape the reality and the Knicks must also see that. From their point of view, Kristaps is the focal point at the moment so you cannot upset him much or otherwise, at the end of the season, he will say “it’s not so cool here.” The second question is: Who is the New York audience coming to watch now? To a large extent, it’s Kristaps. So the organization has to take that into account.”

Is this common at all? No. He's worshiped by fans more than any player in ages, the team is trying to get past the bad history with better FO management and a more in touch coaching staff, but the message from him has not really changed, trying to strong arm us, as he came into this meeting expressing his problems, again, not sounding like a committed player willing to work with the organization. TBF he did go through crap with Jax and Horny, but that's not here now - so they're supposed to call his bluff, another huge risk based on the message that did not change from KP - that the Knicks clearly decided was the last straw after the meeting - as they were already concerned about this, put out feelers in case the concern didn't dissipate, being smart, and as an alternative know they could change rapidly with 2019 FA's and the 7 #1 draft picks in 5 years to try and add talent and become a top team?

Why is that automatically a bad move? I think it makes sense, even if it may not work.

Also, again, suggest to listen to this and see what you think:

https://twitter.com/NateDuncanNBA/status/1091134139808460800

or here:

https://www.spreaker.com/user/10451190/duncd-on-190201-mixed-final?utm_medium=widget&utm_source=user%3A10451190&utm_term=episode_title

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on February 01, 2019, 06:15:16 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 01, 2019, 01:47:28 PM
I'm mad at KP. Fuck you dude.  You have nothing but boos coming.

I can be mad at the Knicks but I have no insight into if there were  better deals coming. 

I have to believe the Knicks did what was best for the Knicks.

Just like KP and his bro were only looking out for themselves.

KP posted a pic of him and Luka before posting a picture thanking the NY fans.

Boo this man.

This all day.

The player we all had to keep, less than 24 hours after being traded:

https://twitter.com/JCMacriNBA/status/1091474770967871488
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on February 01, 2019, 06:32:32 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=7&v=u8BfJn8hKC0

Thank you.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on February 01, 2019, 06:38:22 PM
Right, I forgot. NO said they didn't want KP as well.

His injury record, and size, cannot be overlooked as a fear.

TBF, part of that is if he wants to resign, and NO's rep as an organization is arguably worse than the Knicks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 01, 2019, 07:06:55 PM
What team trades away their young franchise player for cap space?

I'd much sooner fire Perry/Mills than trade KZ for crapola.
Fizz too ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on February 01, 2019, 07:27:33 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 01, 2019, 07:06:55 PM
What team trades away their young franchise player for cap space?

I'd much sooner fire Perry/Mills than trade KZ for crapola.
Fizz too ...

He wanted to go and because of the injury concerns, and if he'll even re-sign, other teams may be proceeding with caution on his value.

Also, because of the AD thing, the Lakers and maybe some other teams who might have bitten, are waiting.

We reportedly offered him for AD, and they wouldn't take him. What does that say to you?

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 01, 2019, 08:18:33 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on February 01, 2019, 06:15:16 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 01, 2019, 01:47:28 PM
I'm mad at KP. Fuck you dude.  You have nothing but boos coming.

I can be mad at the Knicks but I have no insight into if there were  better deals coming. 

I have to believe the Knicks did what was best for the Knicks.

Just like KP and his bro were only looking out for themselves.

KP posted a pic of him and Luka before posting a picture thanking the NY fans.

Boo this man.

This all day.

The player we all had to keep, less than 24 hours after being traded:

https://twitter.com/JCMacriNBA/status/1091474770967871488

Wait, what?

There's a picture of KP smiling since he's been traded?

My God! What an evil scum bucket!

Show me no more. You've shattered my faith in human beings.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 01, 2019, 08:18:54 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on February 01, 2019, 05:55:31 PM

Interestingly, and correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that if we end up with the #1 pick we won't actually have enough for 2 max contracts due to the cap hold for that slot.

https://twitter.com/KnickFilmSchool/status/1091433134405705728

We'd have to renounce IsoZo, sadly.


Or Frank.

I'll sign for that kind of problem.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 01, 2019, 08:24:57 PM
7'3" guys in the NBA

Nevitt
Eaton
Sampson
Smits
Sabonis
Ming
Ilguaskus
Porsingis

Only Eaton stayed healthy for a decade

5 years 130 million was what KP was going to get this summer.

We *may have* dodged a potential bullet.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on February 01, 2019, 08:31:28 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 01, 2019, 08:18:33 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on February 01, 2019, 06:15:16 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 01, 2019, 01:47:28 PM
I'm mad at KP. Fuck you dude.  You have nothing but boos coming.

I can be mad at the Knicks but I have no insight into if there were  better deals coming. 

I have to believe the Knicks did what was best for the Knicks.

Just like KP and his bro were only looking out for themselves.

KP posted a pic of him and Luka before posting a picture thanking the NY fans.

Boo this man.

This all day.

The player we all had to keep, less than 24 hours after being traded:

https://twitter.com/JCMacriNBA/status/1091474770967871488

Wait, what?

There's a picture of KP smiling since he's been traded?

My God! What an evil scum bucket!

Show me no more. You've shattered my faith in human beings.

Are you a block of ice or a human being? Or perhaps a troll apparently trying to one up people instead of understanding reasons he could have played it a bit more kind to Knick fans?

Do you care about that at all? You know the ones that called him some kind of savior and found any possible way to make excuses, watching those comeback videos over the summer, and defending him profusely, some loudly against trading him as he didn't show the same interest back? How should they take it or we interpret that?

It feels like you don't give a care that a lot of our fans are very upset about this, or KP's messages through social media. I'm actually not as mad, but making a point that the guy didn't care about us as much as we did - to the point where he was not buying in NOW and wanted out - and that's part of the reason why we were right to trade him.

His first Twitter post shortly after the trade with a smirking emojie and video clip/gif joking with Doncic at his last game at MSG. Then an Instagram post saying, "The Truth will come out :)"

Then this image and story. All less than a day later. Fans deserve better than someone like him.

Sorry to know you have such low standards for how fans should be treated by someone who leaves and is loved so much. Melo, who didn't win jack got a standing O. You think KP will get that?

Hellz no. Hmmm...wonder why???

Actually...Eureka, you're best friends with KP and Kanter (It was you who went out of your way to defend that other false idol, right?)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on February 01, 2019, 09:07:45 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 01, 2019, 08:24:57 PM
7'3" guys in the NBA

Nevitt
Eaton
Sampson
Smits
Sabonis
Ming
Ilguaskus
Porsingis

Only Eaton stayed healthy for a decade

5 years 130 million was what KP was going to get this summer.

We *may have* dodged a potential bullet.

Not to smitpick but Smits was pretty sturdy and  durable, 3 out of 12 seasons with less than 70 games...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on February 01, 2019, 09:21:49 PM
And once Z got past his early career foot issues, he was very durable
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 01, 2019, 10:08:34 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on February 01, 2019, 08:31:28 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 01, 2019, 08:18:33 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on February 01, 2019, 06:15:16 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 01, 2019, 01:47:28 PM
I'm mad at KP. Fuck you dude.  You have nothing but boos coming.

I can be mad at the Knicks but I have no insight into if there were  better deals coming. 

I have to believe the Knicks did what was best for the Knicks.

Just like KP and his bro were only looking out for themselves.

KP posted a pic of him and Luka before posting a picture thanking the NY fans.

Boo this man.

This all day.

The player we all had to keep, less than 24 hours after being traded:

https://twitter.com/JCMacriNBA/status/1091474770967871488

Wait, what?

There's a picture of KP smiling since he's been traded?

My God! What an evil scum bucket!

Show me no more. You've shattered my faith in human beings.

Are you a block of ice or a human being? Or perhaps a troll apparently trying to one up people instead of understanding reasons he could have played it a bit more kind to Knick fans?

Do you care about that at all? You know the ones that called him some kind of savior and found any possible way to make excuses, watching those comeback videos over the summer, and defending him profusely, some loudly against trading him as he didn't show the same interest back? How should they take it or we interpret that?

It feels like you don't give a care that a lot of our fans are very upset about this, or KP's messages through social media. I'm actually not as mad, but making a point that the guy didn't care about us as much as we did - to the point where he was not buying in NOW and wanted out - and that's part of the reason why we were right to trade him.

His first Twitter post shortly after the trade with a smirking emojie and video clip/gif joking with Doncic at his last game at MSG. Then an Instagram post saying, "The Truth will come out :)"

Then this image and story. All less than a day later. Fans deserve better than someone like him.

Sorry to know you have such low standards for how fans should be treated by someone who leaves and is loved so much. Melo, who didn't win jack got a standing O. You think KP will get that?

Hellz no. Hmmm...wonder why???

Actually...Eureka, you're best friends with KP and Kanter (It was you who went out of your way to defend that other false idol, right?)

It's a goddamn game. Yeah, I've got a passion for it, but I'm not making a villain of Kanter or imagining that an image of KP smiling or weeping means fuckall.

Everyone has an opinion why KP is gone. We'll know in the future, just like we'll know whether the trade doomed the franchise or saved it. Until then...I'll hang on to fantasies of an Irving-Duncan lineup or some such shit, but I'm not going to vilify anyone. These guys just play ball.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 01, 2019, 10:18:07 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on February 01, 2019, 09:21:49 PM
And once Z got past his early career foot issues, he was very durable

He couldn't move.  As durable as a guy who can't move can be.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 01, 2019, 10:18:52 PM
By the way, listen to Alan Hahn, he said that KP and Enes were not friends and the Enes thing wasn't a factor.  KP even laughed when Enes kissed the court.

Hahn said he had tried to give Janis (the brother-agent) some advice about handling new york and not skipping the exit meeting with phil before he had won anything  and the brother kinda dismissed him as if he didn't know anything.
Title: Fizdale visited KPs family in Latvia
Post by: Kam on February 01, 2019, 10:40:50 PM
Don't see how y'all can blame Fizdale.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DjD6PwyVsAAF_Fr.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: NeedsAdjustments on February 01, 2019, 10:47:55 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 01, 2019, 07:06:55 PM
What team trades away their young franchise player for cap space?


Yup. Everything I am reading are weak excuses for the Knocks making what is fundamentally a dumb move. No other team in the league does this.

He wanted out?  No. He didn’t demand a trade. And a 23 year old kid doesn’t get to decide where he goes in this league. Makes the Knicks look weak, and undesirable.

We won’t ever prefer him over a player we get for the cap space?  Bullshit. Very possible we will. He was a phenomenally exciting player on both sides of the court, and still learning the game.  Called a unicorn for good reason.

He’s a permanent injury risk?  Well I guess you guys can hope so if it makes you feel better over a fundamentally stupid move made by what is simply the most fundamentally stupid franchise in all of sports.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 01, 2019, 10:56:42 PM
I don't blame anyone for feeling that way. 

That's why this was such a stupefying astonishing move.... the Knicks had to know their fans would MURDER them,

And they did it ANYWAY.


WHOA..... ballz
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 01, 2019, 11:12:58 PM
Nuggets got 83 points in first half.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 01, 2019, 11:34:15 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 01, 2019, 11:12:58 PM
Nuggets got 83 points in first half.

With their starting backcourt out.

Malik Beas killing it.
Torrey Craig and Monte Morris in on the damage.
Also Jokic steamrolling Rockettes smallballers.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 01, 2019, 11:36:32 PM
Quote from: jaqdavisone on February 01, 2019, 09:05:04 AM
Am I the only one who knows Durant is 30 years old, and after 30 the body and skillset starts decreasing.  I'd much rather a Kyrie and Boogie deal.  Boogie played good next to Davis in Narleans.  Kyrie, Dennis, Knox, Boogie, Mitch.  Thats a hellohvuh starting five.  All young, Kyrie drives the team, Dennis takes over when he needs a rest, We got Trier in the wings.  Also unlike everybody else in the forum I like Kanter.  People downplay the importance of offensive rebounds.  Kanter gets them all. He is definitely an asset. and he is young.  Defense can be taught.

Name the great players that became mush at 30.  Especially since intense workouts became common.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 01, 2019, 11:38:47 PM
Quote from: NeedsAdjustments on February 01, 2019, 10:47:55 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 01, 2019, 07:06:55 PM
What team trades away their young franchise player for cap space?


Yup. Everything I am reading are weak excuses for the Knocks making what is fundamentally a dumb move. No other team in the league does this.

He wanted out?  No. He didn’t demand a trade. And a 23 year old kid doesn’t get to decide where he goes in this league. Makes the Knicks look weak, and undesirable.

We won’t ever prefer him over a player we get for the cap space?  Bullshit. Very possible we will. He was a phenomenally exciting player on both sides of the court, and still learning the game.  Called a unicorn for good reason.

He’s a permanent injury risk?  Well I guess you guys can hope so if it makes you feel better over a fundamentally stupid move made by what is simply the most fundamentally stupid franchise in all of sports.

The brother was a dick.  Why don't you see it?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 01, 2019, 11:39:44 PM
And doesn't "the truth will come out" just speak for itself?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 01, 2019, 11:47:15 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 01, 2019, 07:06:55 PM
What team trades away their young franchise player for cap space?

I'd much sooner fire Perry/Mills than trade KZ for crapola.
Fizz too ...

Smith.   Check
Number 1.   Check.
Second #1.   Check
Glimpses at Wes and the Giant.    Check Check
Room for one 7 year max free agent.    Check
Room for second 7 or 10 year free agent.    Check

But yeah.  Keep the udickorn instead.
Title: The Cover-Your-Ass Meeting
Post by: bodiddley on February 01, 2019, 11:50:27 PM
We'll likely hear more, but from what I'm getting, that KZ meeting sounded like a set-up.  They brought him in to talk for all of 5 minutes.  They reportedly gave him a set binary choice -- if he was all-in on what they were doing, or if he was out.  Perry-Mills decided KZ wasn't fully on board.  And they had him traded within an hour.

Sure sounds like they had the trade they were going to make, and manufactured a pretense to justify it.  Gee, KZ showed some concerns over a 10-40 situation, without a genuine starting PG, rotations and starting slots a free-for-all, etc. 

No meeting was needed.  And if there was a brief one, all they needed to know was if KZ was okay with the develop the youth approach and planned to sign a max deal with NYK.  Both of which should already have been discussed.

They should have just been waiting for KZ to be evaluated in FEB.  Getting a feel if he wanted to return this year or next.  Explaining how they were developing the youth, and positioning for a high draft pick.  And that they'd add some vet help as well.

But of course the Knix always outsmart themselves and try to skip a few steps in any process.  Now, we're told that no stars is the path to two, as we plan to free agent in an instant team.

The meeting sounds like it was a sham . . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 01, 2019, 11:54:49 PM
I'm getting behind it being the right move long term. 
It was a panic move not because of the meeting with an unhappy KP
but because the franchises in the glamour towns (LAC and BKN) had more space this summer.
Only an idiot would claim there's no chance it backfires.  KP could be a hall of fame guy if it works out.
We could end up with no max free agents.
What are you gonna do; stop being a fan?
Not me.
Title: Re: The Cover-Your-Ass Meeting
Post by: Kam on February 01, 2019, 11:59:45 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 01, 2019, 11:50:27 PM


The meeting sounds like it was a sham . . .


We have heard KP asked for a trade.    True or false? I don't know.
We have heard that the brother threatened playing for the QO and going UFA.  True or false? I don't know.


You think both are false.

That's cool. You can think that.  But there's only a 1 in 4 chance of that being the case.
Title: Re: The Cover-Your-Ass Meeting
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 02, 2019, 12:14:13 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 01, 2019, 11:50:27 PM
We'll likely hear more, but from what I'm getting, that KZ meeting sounded like a set-up.  They brought him in to talk for all of 5 minutes.  They reportedly gave him a set binary choice -- if he was all-in on what they were doing, or if he was out.  Perry-Mills decided KZ wasn't fully on board.  And they had him traded within an hour.

Sure sounds like they had the trade they were going to make, and manufactured a pretense to justify it.  Gee, KZ showed some concerns over a 10-40 situation, without a genuine starting PG, rotations and starting slots a free-for-all, etc. 

No meeting was needed.  And if there was a brief one, all they needed to know was if KZ was okay with the develop the youth approach and planned to sign a max deal with NYK.  Both of which should already have been discussed.

They should have just been waiting for KZ to be evaluated in FEB.  Getting a feel if he wanted to return this year or next.  Explaining how they were developing the youth, and positioning for a high draft pick.  And that they'd add some vet help as well.

But of course the Knix always outsmart themselves and try to skip a few steps in any process.  Now, we're told that no stars is the path to two, as we plan to free agent in an instant team.

The meeting sounds like it was a sham . . .

It wasn't just 10-40

Wasn't just this year's losing ..  But I am not sure Perry was ready to offer max money just yet.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on February 02, 2019, 12:49:40 AM
Quote from: elephant on February 01, 2019, 10:08:34 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on February 01, 2019, 08:31:28 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 01, 2019, 08:18:33 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on February 01, 2019, 06:15:16 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 01, 2019, 01:47:28 PM
I'm mad at KP. Fuck you dude.  You have nothing but boos coming.

I can be mad at the Knicks but I have no insight into if there were  better deals coming. 

I have to believe the Knicks did what was best for the Knicks.

Just like KP and his bro were only looking out for themselves.

KP posted a pic of him and Luka before posting a picture thanking the NY fans.

Boo this man.

This all day.

The player we all had to keep, less than 24 hours after being traded:

https://twitter.com/JCMacriNBA/status/1091474770967871488

Wait, what?

There's a picture of KP smiling since he's been traded?

My God! What an evil scum bucket!

Show me no more. You've shattered my faith in human beings.

Are you a block of ice or a human being? Or perhaps a troll apparently trying to one up people instead of understanding reasons he could have played it a bit more kind to Knick fans?

Do you care about that at all? You know the ones that called him some kind of savior and found any possible way to make excuses, watching those comeback videos over the summer, and defending him profusely, some loudly against trading him as he didn't show the same interest back? How should they take it or we interpret that?

It feels like you don't give a care that a lot of our fans are very upset about this, or KP's messages through social media. I'm actually not as mad, but making a point that the guy didn't care about us as much as we did - to the point where he was not buying in NOW and wanted out - and that's part of the reason why we were right to trade him.

His first Twitter post shortly after the trade with a smirking emojie and video clip/gif joking with Doncic at his last game at MSG. Then an Instagram post saying, "The Truth will come out :)"

Then this image and story. All less than a day later. Fans deserve better than someone like him.

Sorry to know you have such low standards for how fans should be treated by someone who leaves and is loved so much. Melo, who didn't win jack got a standing O. You think KP will get that?

Hellz no. Hmmm...wonder why???

Actually...Eureka, you're best friends with KP and Kanter (It was you who went out of your way to defend that other false idol, right?)

It's a goddamn game. Yeah, I've got a passion for it, but I'm not making a villain of Kanter or imagining that an image of KP smiling or weeping means fuckall.

Everyone has an opinion why KP is gone. We'll know in the future, just like we'll know whether the trade doomed the franchise or saved it. Until then...I'll hang on to fantasies of an Irving-Duncan lineup or some such shit, but I'm not going to vilify anyone. These guys just play ball.

A villain? Nah, mostly concerned with fans going crazy over him when I see a used car salesman, and I know I'm not alone.

Kanter seems to me to be trying to hustle our desperate, traumatized fan base for his own personal gain. He's playing the public image game, in one regard, but playing himself in other ways. Some think he's just who he is. Really? I dunno, I have doubts, and I don't expect miracles either with him, like fans who say just play defense. To me, he just can't. Like Amar'e and other players who no matter what won't be good at it. if that's the case, and you cause more harm than good to a team, why do I want you as a fan?

His approach to his being benched could represent a particular version of capitalism, one that utilizes convenience and practical ideas such as negotiation tactics, political capital, etc. to get what you want, no matter what. Sometimes it seems this way.

Problem is this is a business with fans as the primary source of revenue. Something is amiss here, part of which is a lack of understanding of NY fans. We're not all chanting for Kanter to play. A lot feel the complete opposite, but he either doesn't realize that or blocks it out. That's one aspect of the misread but so is the concept of "getting mine" in a hyper-competitive world of the highest level of pro sports for top athlhetes, and particularly the NBA with its more complex CBA/salary cap. We can go back to Lebron's "decision" (similar), Melo's, Lakers blocked trade for Paul, KD's move to GS, AD's moves and now KP, but bigger problem is KP and Kanter are not on that level.

That doesn't make them villains, just shitty at working the crowd. Maybe it's due to not being American or not in NY long enough to understand. I dunno, but something is awry and we're done with them both, clearly.

Kanter, fortunately, is mostly irrelevant so it means less for us and will be forgotten by most. If he was still in OKC he'd be invisible. No one would care at all as he'd have no audience. Wonder if he's figured that out?? Hmmm...

KP comes across as possibly similarly ignorant to me about who he is and where he is. It's very sad, but I think both have shown colors that I would never want as a manager or leader on my team after feeling I've tried to work with them repeatedly, or even honestly sent messages that one's time was up (Kanter). Then to have that employee try to hustle the leadership by using their popularity with a certain loud, and who I'd call ignorant set of fans who he does not realize is not the full fanbase? Nah, you're stepping outside of your area. Maybe it's a mistake, as that can happen, but it's not just one time. It's a pattern.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 02, 2019, 01:11:18 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 link=topic=11.msg82534#msg82534 date=1549056719

Think about what you are saying.  We didnt even have enough to pay max to a 7 year vet.
[/quote

We actually did. But we didn't have enough for a 10 year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 02, 2019, 01:11:43 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 01, 2019, 08:44:20 AM
Alarming stat

Charlie Ward was the last draft pick we extended

Indeed alarming. Hopefully Frank will be the next one.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 02, 2019, 04:37:24 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 01, 2019, 11:47:15 PM
Smith.   iffy
Number 1.    2.5 years out -- but an asset
Second #1.   4.5 years or more out -- guaranteed 11th or lower
Glimpses at Wes and the Giant.   Maybe can re-sign Wes at MLE
Room for one 7 year max free agent.   Cap space
Room for second 7 or 10 year free agent.    Cap space

So basically got very very little.  For a an-star caliber player.
Either the cap space pays off (as in at least one all-star level guy), or the whole thing is a total fiasco.

With KZ, you could see guys like Kawhi, Kyrie, Durant possiblywanting to come.  Now we just nix our betas player, have a team of whozits and kiddies, and  it's harder to imagine two top level guys wanting to hop on over to struggle getting NYK in shape.  NY looks like a mess, a place to avoid.  And it's really all-in, because why would one top player come here?  So you almost have to land 2.  Good luck.

Isn't it easier for KD, Kyrie, Kawhi, Butler to stay where they are -- all in winning situations -- or move to another winning team.  Lakes and Clips for example look much more promising.
Title: Re: The Cover-Your-Ass Meeting
Post by: bodiddley on February 02, 2019, 05:04:52 AM
Quote from: Kam on February 01, 2019, 11:59:45 PM
We have heard KP asked for a trade.    True or false? I don't know.

From what I'm seeing, PerryMills backtracked from that fairly quickly.  They say KZ didn't completely buy in.  That he didn't really/fully want to be here.  Which is different than him saying he wanted out or wanted a trade.

Quote
We have heard that the brother threatened playing for the QO and going UFA.  True or false? I don't know.

I wouldn't doubt loose-cannon brother issued such a threat.  I pretty sure he said as much even before KZ got injured.  But given a player coming off a serious injury who can sign either a 1 year $7.5M deal or a 5 year/ $130M guaranteed deal, I assume the latter.  Nearly a $125M difference.  You can work on where you want to be later, after your bank account and future generations are taken care of.

KZ's camp wanted influence that they didn't have under Phil and apparently PerryMills weren't willing to allow.  But I strongly believe that was an idle threat.

Quote
You think both are false.
That's cool. You can think that.  But there's only a 1 in 4 chance of that being the case.

I think the first one is false based on the measured statements of Perry-Mills.  The second one likely true and just an empty threat.

I assume you mean one out of four possible combinations, not a 1-in-4 chance.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 02, 2019, 08:52:44 AM
Quote from: Jack Straw on February 01, 2019, 09:07:45 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 01, 2019, 08:24:57 PM
7'3" guys in the NBA

Nevitt
Eaton
Sampson
Smits
Sabonis
Ming
Ilguaskus
Porsingis

Only Eaton stayed healthy for a decade

5 years 130 million was what KP was going to get this summer.

We *may have* dodged a potential bullet.

Not to smitpick but Smits was pretty sturdy and  durable, 3 out of 12 seasons with less than 70 games...

Yeah Smits was pretty great. I'm not 100% sure what definition of healthy Kam is using. Sabonis Sr. played something like 23 pro seasons after all. One of my all-time faves. We only saw him at 30+ after his legs were already shot. He was still awesome.

***Seems to have taught his son well, too. I would very much love to pick up Sabonis jr. if Indy ever decides that paying two big $$ guys at the same position isn't sensible for midwesterners. Could be a nice use of those new draft picks down the road.

And is 7'3 really all that different from 7'2"?

Which gives you 3 Hall of Famers — Artis Gilmore  (17 seasons including ABA) and Kareem (20) and Dikembe (18) just off the top of my head.

Yeah KP may turn out to be injury prone, but somehow I don't think the extra inch is automatically the longevity kiss of death.
Title: Re: The Cover-Your-Ass Meeting
Post by: NeedsAdjustments on February 02, 2019, 09:16:01 AM
Quote from: Kam on February 01, 2019, 11:59:45 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 01, 2019, 11:50:27 PM


The meeting sounds like it was a sham . . .


We have heard KP asked for a trade.    True or false? I don't know.
We have heard that the brother threatened playing for the QO and going UFA.  True or false? I don't know.


You think both are false.

That's cool. You can think that.  But there's only a 1 in 4 chance of that being the case.

The “trade request” was pure propaganda meant to sell the trade to the fan base, and it fell apart almost immediately. Read the interview with Fozz, who just a few weeks earlier was talking about how invested KP was. Now he seemed “disengaged” over the last ten days, not watching as much film....so they traded him?  They just can’t manage a 23 year old with a total of two years experience when he gets down on how things are going.

Oh, and you know, his brother is kind of a dick.

Pfffftt.

Knicks fashioned a false choice to trick the fans into oking yet another dumb win now move and judging from posts here it seems to have worked. But the rest of the league is laughing their ass off.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on February 02, 2019, 10:57:09 AM
Knick fan hero, and self-awareness master, Enes Kanter:

https://twitter.com/Schmeelk/status/1091547675403657216
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on February 02, 2019, 11:08:16 AM
So...

If the Knicks manage to get the #1 pick, and then sign KD and Kyrie.

Do you trade Zion + whatever for AD, if NO still has him?

I still do it even as exciting as Zion's potential may be.

That big 3 will be in the Finals for 2, probably 3 years, even with KD aging.

Then you still have those two still not even 30 and an older KD, who could still be a very good player.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on February 02, 2019, 11:27:14 AM
Quote from: PrezIke on February 02, 2019, 10:57:09 AM
Knick fan hero, and self-awareness master, Enes Kanter:

https://twitter.com/Schmeelk/status/1091547675403657216

I'm not going to defend Enes's Knick knocks - he was acted like a real jerk and far exceeded his "juice".  But I will just add this. I work in Turkey and have quite a number of liberal, progressive Turkish friends.  In 2007/8 there was this ill defined conspiracy "case" called Ergenekon.  The Ergenekon  case was very ill defined and hazy but it totally freaked out western oriented Turks and continues to do so up until now.  It was the first time the Gulanists came to the attention of the west.  It also was broadly defined as a case of a Turkish "Deep State." (Which ultimately has become part of the far right code in the US and elsewhere in the West).

Kanter has staked out a very dangerous political position (and can't return to Turkey as long as Erdogan and the AKP are in power).  This all to say, that in may way Enes is living in a different and dangerous world in which he is under a lot of stress.

jes sayin'....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on February 02, 2019, 11:37:42 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 02, 2019, 04:37:24 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 01, 2019, 11:47:15 PM
Smith.   iffy
Number 1.    2.5 years out -- but an asset
Second #1.   4.5 years or more out -- guaranteed 11th or lower
Glimpses at Wes and the Giant.   Maybe can re-sign Wes at MLE
Room for one 7 year max free agent.   Cap space
Room for second 7 or 10 year free agent.    Cap space

So basically got very very little.  For a an-star caliber player.
Either the cap space pays off (as in at least one all-star level guy), or the whole thing is a total fiasco.

With KZ, you could see guys like Kawhi, Kyrie, Durant possiblywanting to come.  Now we just nix our betas player, have a team of whozits and kiddies, and  it's harder to imagine two top level guys wanting to hop on over to struggle getting NYK in shape.  NY looks like a mess, a place to avoid.  And it's really all-in, because why would one top player come here?  So you almost have to land 2.  Good luck.

Isn't it easier for KD, Kyrie, Kawhi, Butler to stay where they are -- all in winning situations -- or move to another winning team.  Lakes and Clips for example look much more promising.

So, all the chatter about KD coming to NY, that many "in the knows" in the NBA have been hinting at since the before the season started, is irrelevant to the Knicks decision making?

I'm not saying it's absolutely true, but to ignore or dismiss this entirely, as well as the ongoing issues Kyrie appears to be having with the C's and the increasing ambiguity about his future - documented here in some detail today:

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25903463/kyrie-irving-nba-superstars-going-all-in

strikes me as odd. I read this past week that Ainge may have even been shopping Kyrie around as well.

So, the pursuit of cap space is useless because you think no one will want to come here, even though there are increasing signs all season of the opposite?

I know we have a reason through history to doubt the Knicks FO, but Dolan is not in charge, nor is Phil. He had to approve the KP trade, but that came from convos with Perry and Mills. Mills I think we can gather, however, is really guided by Perry, as we all know that THJ's offer sheet came from Mills. Perry and Fiz are the most influential, I'd suggest, and they are more new.

They literally raised this yesterday when referring to part of why they traded KP. They felt that he was judging them based on what happened with Phil, said they were new and were trying their way with hopes he would buy in. It was probably the combination of factors that led to him being moved, but when you have an injured star who we don't know how he will look, on a very bad team, and is threatening to possibly bolt, and isn't really buying in, what would you do and what do you think that does to his value?

Did you listen to that podcast I posted or watch that ESPN video? I'm curious what you think about their comments given that I'm noticing you repeating yourself and not responding to some points made.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on February 02, 2019, 11:44:19 AM
Quote from: Jack Straw on February 02, 2019, 11:27:14 AM
Quote from: PrezIke on February 02, 2019, 10:57:09 AM
Knick fan hero, and self-awareness master, Enes Kanter:

https://twitter.com/Schmeelk/status/1091547675403657216

I'm not going to defend Enes's Knick knocks - he was acted like a real jerk and far exceeded his "juice".  But I will just add this. I work in Turkey and have quite a number of liberal, progressive Turkish friends.  In 2007/8 there was this ill defined conspiracy "case" called Ergenekon.  The Ergenekon  case was very ill defined and hazy but it totally freaked out western oriented Turks and continues to do so up until now.  It was the first time the Gulanists came to the attention of the west.  It also was broadly defined as a case of a Turkish "Deep State." (Which ultimately has become part of the far right code in the US and elsewhere in the West).

Kanter has staked out a very dangerous political position (and can't return to Turkey as long as Erdogan and the AKP are in power).  This all to say, that in may way Enes is living in a different and dangerous world in which he is under a lot of stress.

jes sayin'....

I've said this here and elsewhere, but nothing I say about him has to do with his political stance and risk he takes regarding it.

I admire and respect him for that, no question. Erdogan is not exactly someone I support in any way whatsoever. I have Turkish friends who are afraid to return as well over their own views and activities. There are plenty of issues to criticize including from Kurds who we all know have had long standing issues with the government, and that was long before the coup attempt.

What Enes is doing as a Knick now, to the team and fans, however, is where my beef lays specifically.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on February 02, 2019, 11:59:57 AM
Yup, I agree Prez...

the only small distinction I am making, is that Enes' political situation maybe broadly affecting his overall perspective on everything, and if he's tense, vulnerable, threatened, his sense and proportions as an NBA player are probably "off".  Not excusing it, just saying the guy is probably half out of his mind on any given day, wondering if his çorba and ekmek have been tainted - is that really so far out of the question...

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 02, 2019, 12:01:01 PM
So two minutes shy of noon.

Amazing amount of stuff going on with the Knicks and around the league, but based on what we've seen so far, I'm still going to set today's over-under on Kanter-hate clown posts at ... 27.



***keep on keeping on boys:)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 02, 2019, 12:08:37 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 02, 2019, 04:37:24 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 01, 2019, 11:47:15 PM
Smith.   iffy
Number 1.    2.5 years out -- but an asset
Second #1.   4.5 years or more out -- guaranteed 11th or lower
Glimpses at Wes and the Giant.   Maybe can re-sign Wes at MLE
Room for one 7 year max free agent.   Cap space
Room for second 7 or 10 year free agent.    Cap space

So basically got very very little.  For a an-star caliber player.
Either the cap space pays off (as in at least one all-star level guy), or the whole thing is a total fiasco.

With KZ, you could see guys like Kawhi, Kyrie, Durant possiblywanting to come.  Now we just nix our betas player, have a team of whozits and kiddies, and  it's harder to imagine two top level guys wanting to hop on over to struggle getting NYK in shape.  NY looks like a mess, a place to avoid.  And it's really all-in, because why would one top player come here?  So you almost have to land 2.  Good luck.

Isn't it easier for KD, Kyrie, Kawhi, Butler to stay where they are -- all in winning situations -- or move to another winning team.  Lakes and Clips for example look much more promising.

I now wonder which alternative actually gives us a better chance of landing one of these superstars. You talk about guys who "possibly" might want to come here to play with KP. But unlike these other dudes, KP never proved himself the "superstar." It was always about his potential for greatness. Plus he had a major injury, has been out a long time, and no one knows — no one — whether he'll fully recover his mojo.

With the non-KP scenario, if we just get ONE of these motherfuckers — KD or Kyrie or Butler — it gets far easier to get the second, no? In this case, they know they're coming to a team with another GREAT player in his prime AND a crew of strong young players.

Okay, okay, maybe this is just something I'm telling myself. But I think the current scenario gives us a better chance to land a superstar than the one we had a week ago.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 02, 2019, 12:48:58 PM
Scenario a)
If we get Zion, I think we have an excellent chance at getting two of Durant/Kawhi/Kyrie/Klay/Kemba/Butler/Tobias/Middleton/Bledsoe...obviously you only bring in the some of the latter guys at max or near max money if it's necessary to get one of the first I'd say three guys. And I don't think Kawhi even takes a meeting in NY, tbh. But still, Zion/all-star/all-star (or all-star-ish)/Knox/Ntilikina/Robinson/Dotson/possibly IsoZo/Room Exception/vet mins eager to play at MSG will be exciting! And, yes, more so if we trade all of the supporting cast for Anthony Davis.

I think if Zion is drafted, we get two all-stars here. Possibly two all-NBA guys.

Scenario b)
Let's say we don't win the lottery. 86% chance and all. Is RJ going to be viewed as a draw to any of those top notch free agents? I think yes. Is he going to be interesting enough as a centrepiece to NOLA? Again, I think yes but it might cost an extra future 1st. I wonder if NOLA will be more keen to do the trade if they, in fact, win the lottery...

I think the odds are less of attracting the big names, but not hugely less.

Scenario c)
What if it's Ja Morant or Cam Reddish or (shudder) Bol Bol or some other player in one of the tiers well below Zion? The Knicks obviously have a win-now mentality and it's not clear that any of those guys are going to be viewed as playoff ready. I think the odds of attracting free agents takes a hit, and I think the chances of acquiring Davis also do (unless Kyrie is determined to leave Boston for New York and then it really becomes a question of whether the Pelicans prefer Zo/Ingram/Hart/Zubac or Knox/DSJ/Reddish/Ntilikina).

Anyhow, if, as should mathematically be expected, the Knicks pick lower than second in the draft, I don't think Anthony Davis is coming. I think Durant + Kyrie is a possibility but not a great one. And I would hope the Knicks would prefer to be humble and extend the rebuild than, say, max out Kemba Walker and Khris Middleton. I love a lot about both players! But the ceiling on the franchise becomes pretty low at that point.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 02, 2019, 01:43:38 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on February 02, 2019, 10:57:09 AM
Knick fan hero, and self-awareness master, Enes Kanter:

https://twitter.com/Schmeelk/status/1091547675403657216

Does he have people?  Someone needs to tell him to STFU.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 02, 2019, 01:47:02 PM
Quote from: Jack Straw on February 02, 2019, 11:27:14 AM

Kanter has staked out a very dangerous political position (and can't return to Turkey as long as Erdogan and the AKP are in power).  This all to say, that in may way Enes is living in a different and dangerous world in which he is under a lot of stress.

jes sayin'....

And this engenders sympathy from some of the fan base.  Everything he does is about garnering sympathy.  For his plight... either the Knicks are screwing him or Turkey is.  He is the guy who is screwed over and wants everyone to know.

That act gets old.  Just saying.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 02, 2019, 01:56:30 PM
I'd rather have one all-star (KZ) and try to lure a 2nd via FA.  Rather than have none and hope to lure two together.  Seems we're counting a lot on Kyrie being buds with these other guys.  Who knows, maybe agent chatter favors us.  Or maybe KZ's recovery is not as good as hoped.  There's possibly stuff we're not privy to, but otoh it's usually impressive how much leaks out all the time.

I'd just note that right now Kyrie and KD, Butler and Kawhi are all in much better spots and on better teams than what the Knix will be next year even if NYK adds any two of those guys.  Look at their rosters and compare to ours.  AD is the exception as NOPe has a middling team.  It's possible Knix get lucky.  Kyrie is a bit of an oddball, so he seems to be the major wildcard out there.   Otherwise, I think counting on getting Zion with the 14% lotto chance is pretty fanciful.

Fwiw, Zach Lowe had this to say about the KZ/bro threat:
"By the way: I'll believe Porzingis takes his one-year qualifying offer when I see it. Pure posturing."
He's obviously more in the know than Bo, and he also thinks it smacks of total BS.

Maybe part of the Knix problem is Dolan ... has been ... too uninvolved.  He let Phil talk KZ trades.  He let PerryMills trade KZ for cap space.  Old days, I'd wager Dolan would have said that KZ is untouchable.  Like when he stepped in to secure Melo.  Dolan knows the allure of star power in NYC.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 02, 2019, 01:57:08 PM
I think the Knix have far more to be concerned with than Kanter's twits ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 02, 2019, 01:59:09 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 02, 2019, 12:08:37 PM

Okay, okay, maybe this is just something I'm telling myself. But I think the current scenario gives us a better chance to land a superstar than the one we had a week ago.

I agree with this. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 02, 2019, 02:02:09 PM
The guys who get their raises to play here together very well might not be of the current super-duper-star tier.

One example, Middleton for $25 mil, Portis at $17, and Aminu at $17 million. You have some cap space left to retain your own guys.

Robinson Kornet
Portis Vonleh
Aminu Knox
Middleton Dotson Frank
SmithJr Trier

We’d have 2 draft picks, some wiggle room & future assets to build up from there.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 02, 2019, 02:02:31 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 02, 2019, 01:43:38 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on February 02, 2019, 10:57:09 AM
Knick fan hero, and self-awareness master, Enes Kanter:

https://twitter.com/Schmeelk/status/1091547675403657216

Does he have people?  Someone needs to tell him to STFU.

two minutes shy of 2 pm and I'm upping the days Hi-Lo to 35.

***I forgot how much y'all hate it when the plantation nigras get uppity
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 02, 2019, 02:09:38 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 02, 2019, 01:56:30 PM

Maybe part of the Knix problem is Dolan ... has been ... too uninvolved.  He let Phil talk KZ trades.  He let PerryMills trade KZ for cap space.  Old days, I'd wager Dolan would have said that KZ is untouchable.  Like when he stepped in to secure Melo.  Dolan knows the allure of star power in NYC.

I think Dolan soured on KZ when he skipped the exit interview.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 02, 2019, 02:10:50 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on February 02, 2019, 02:02:31 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 02, 2019, 01:43:38 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on February 02, 2019, 10:57:09 AM
Knick fan hero, and self-awareness master, Enes Kanter:

https://twitter.com/Schmeelk/status/1091547675403657216

Does he have people?  Someone needs to tell him to STFU.

two minutes shy of 2 pm and I'm upping the days Hi-Lo to 35.

***I forgot how much y'all hate it when the plantation nigras get uppity

OH the plantation that pays $18 million?  Sign me up. 
How  much is Enes paying you to carry his jockstrap?

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 02, 2019, 02:46:06 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 02, 2019, 02:02:09 PM
The guys who get their raises to play here together very well might not be of the current super-duper-star tier.

One example, Middleton for $25 mil, Portis at $17, and Aminu at $17 million. You have some cap space left to retain your own guys.

Robinson Kornet
Portis Vonleh
Aminu Knox
Middleton Dotson Frank
SmithJr Trier

We’d have 2 draft picks, some wiggle room & future assets to build up from there.

Portis at $17m over four years is iffy, but I might do it. His usage is entirely inappropriate (he only shoots the ball when he has it, as they say) and he offers nothing otherwise. But he can shoot.

What the hell were you thinking suggesting that for one season???

It's also too much for Aminu. And Middleton shouldn't be the first option.

All in all - I consider this an absolute worst case scenario, barring one where we send out picks for some reason.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 02, 2019, 03:14:29 PM
I kind of like Portishead, but think he's most likely a solid 6th man rather than a starter.  Though haven't seen much of CHI this year.

Isn't he fairly chumpy on D?
$17M?  Didn't we just go through this with Tim*?

Edit: D Real +/- has him 91 of 93 PF's.
No way do I give him $17M per.

Vonleh is an equivalent player and (hopefully) can be had for half that.
One beneficiary of the KZ trade should be Vonleh.  NYK very likely to re-sign him now.  The trade probably just added $2M to his starting price.

* Speaking of Tim, I've been figuring he was due for a hot streak.  Now it'll probably happen once he joins DAL.  Hardaway really had a nice start to the season, and then mostly slumped since October ended.

Knix likely to have a 14% chance at Zion and a 15% chance of signing 2 top FA's.  If we whiff, I wouldn't be surprised if we give out some large one year contracts, in order to fill out the roster, meet the min salary, and take a look at some players.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 02, 2019, 03:23:58 PM
I was surprised when we ditched both Hernancortez and Kuz, both of whom were KZ buds.  Apparently, Willy still a good friend of KZ, in regular contact.

The constant turnover couldn't have helped.  What did we get for Willy anyway?  A 2nd rounder I think, and we've actually used those pretty well lately.
Title: The original Kam(s)ter
Post by: carlos123 on February 02, 2019, 03:26:11 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 02, 2019, 01:47:02 PM
Quote from: Jack Straw on February 02, 2019, 11:27:14 AM

Kanter has staked out a very dangerous political position (and can't return to Turkey as long as Erdogan and the AKP are in power).  This all to say, that in may way Enes is living in a different and dangerous world in which he is under a lot of stress.

jes sayin'....

And this engenders sympathy from some of the fan base.  Everything he does is about garnering sympathy.  For his plight... either the Knicks are screwing him or Turkey is.  He is the guy who is screwed over and wants everyone to know.

That act gets old.  Just saying.

This coming from the original Anti-Kanter. Really! How many Lire are you getting from Recep? Where do you go to exchange them?
Title: Re: The original Kam(s)ter
Post by: Kam on February 02, 2019, 03:30:54 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 02, 2019, 03:26:11 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 02, 2019, 01:47:02 PM
Quote from: Jack Straw on February 02, 2019, 11:27:14 AM

Kanter has staked out a very dangerous political position (and can't return to Turkey as long as Erdogan and the AKP are in power).  This all to say, that in may way Enes is living in a different and dangerous world in which he is under a lot of stress.

jes sayin'....

And this engenders sympathy from some of the fan base.  Everything he does is about garnering sympathy.  For his plight... either the Knicks are screwing him or Turkey is.  He is the guy who is screwed over and wants everyone to know.

That act gets old.  Just saying.

This coming from the original Anti-Kanter. Really! How many Lire are you getting from Recep? Where do you go to exchange them?

You like his game?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 02, 2019, 03:31:15 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 02, 2019, 03:23:58 PM
I was surprised when we ditched both Hernancortez and Kuz, both of whom were KZ buds.  Apparently, Willy still a good friend of KZ, in regular contact.

The constant turnover couldn't have helped.  What did we get for Willy anyway?  A 2nd rounder I think, and we've actually used those pretty well lately.

I thought it was 2 2nd rounders.
Title: Re: The original Kam(s)ter
Post by: carlos123 on February 02, 2019, 03:39:04 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 02, 2019, 03:30:54 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 02, 2019, 03:26:11 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 02, 2019, 01:47:02 PM
Quote from: Jack Straw on February 02, 2019, 11:27:14 AM

Kanter has staked out a very dangerous political position (and can't return to Turkey as long as Erdogan and the AKP are in power).  This all to say, that in may way Enes is living in a different and dangerous world in which he is under a lot of stress.

jes sayin'....

And this engenders sympathy from some of the fan base.  Everything he does is about garnering sympathy.  For his plight... either the Knicks are screwing him or Turkey is.  He is the guy who is screwed over and wants everyone to know.

That act gets old.  Just saying.

This coming from the original Anti-Kanter. Really! How many Lire are you getting from Recep? Where do you go to exchange them?

You like his game?

Recep’s game? NO!

Enes game? YES! He ain’t perfect but, at a reasonable price I’d very much like to keep him. See, I’m one of those (according to Prez-Ike) IGNORANT FANS who value his rebounding and scoring. He just needs to play next to a good defender. And to you, I’d submit that it ain’t his fault somebody gave him a $17 mil contract.

In addition to all that, me and other IGNORANT FANS also appreciate his seeming love for NY and the Knicks and his obvious political bravery. Hey, who wants to join the IGNORANT FAN CLUB?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on February 02, 2019, 04:25:51 PM
NY has a 86% ( or less chance of NOT  getting Zion)  so talk of him on NY is simply typical wishful thinking.

NY has a beter chance at luring 2 free agents at max salary.  who they may be is a complete unknown and won't be for another 6 months.

If KP asked for a trade then NY did the right thing.  if he didn't then they fucked up.  fairly simple.

i have no faith in NY Management.  that goes from Dolan to Mills to Perry to the coach.  Perhaps KP felt the same way.
Title: Re: The original Kam(s)ter
Post by: elephant on February 02, 2019, 05:54:13 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 02, 2019, 03:39:04 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 02, 2019, 03:30:54 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 02, 2019, 03:26:11 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 02, 2019, 01:47:02 PM
Quote from: Jack Straw on February 02, 2019, 11:27:14 AM

Kanter has staked out a very dangerous political position (and can't return to Turkey as long as Erdogan and the AKP are in power).  This all to say, that in may way Enes is living in a different and dangerous world in which he is under a lot of stress.

jes sayin'....

And this engenders sympathy from some of the fan base.  Everything he does is about garnering sympathy.  For his plight... either the Knicks are screwing him or Turkey is.  He is the guy who is screwed over and wants everyone to know.

That act gets old.  Just saying.

This coming from the original Anti-Kanter. Really! How many Lire are you getting from Recep? Where do you go to exchange them?

You like his game?

Recep’s game? NO!

Enes game? YES! He ain’t perfect but, at a reasonable price I’d very much like to keep him. See, I’m one of those (according to Prez-Ike) IGNORANT FANS who value his rebounding and scoring. He just needs to play next to a good defender. And to you, I’d submit that it ain’t his fault somebody gave him a $17 mil contract.

In addition to all that, me and other IGNORANT FANS also appreciate his seeming love for NY and the Knicks and his obvious political bravery. Hey, who wants to join the IGNORANT FAN CLUB?
I totally agree with Carlos. The man is not an all-star and he has issues on defense. But he rebounds, he scores, and he plays as hard as he can. The level of animus against him seems way out of proportion to his play.
Title: Re: The original Kam(s)ter
Post by: Kam on February 02, 2019, 05:59:23 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 02, 2019, 03:39:04 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 02, 2019, 03:30:54 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 02, 2019, 03:26:11 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 02, 2019, 01:47:02 PM
Quote from: Jack Straw on February 02, 2019, 11:27:14 AM

Kanter has staked out a very dangerous political position (and can't return to Turkey as long as Erdogan and the AKP are in power).  This all to say, that in may way Enes is living in a different and dangerous world in which he is under a lot of stress.

jes sayin'....

And this engenders sympathy from some of the fan base.  Everything he does is about garnering sympathy.  For his plight... either the Knicks are screwing him or Turkey is.  He is the guy who is screwed over and wants everyone to know.

That act gets old.  Just saying.

This coming from the original Anti-Kanter. Really! How many Lire are you getting from Recep? Where do you go to exchange them?

You like his game?

Recep’s game? NO!

Enes game? YES! He ain’t perfect but, at a reasonable price I’d very much like to keep him. See, I’m one of those (according to Prez-Ike) IGNORANT FANS who value his rebounding and scoring. He just needs to play next to a good defender. And to you, I’d submit that it ain’t his fault somebody gave him a $17 mil contract.

In addition to all that, me and other IGNORANT FANS also appreciate his seeming love for NY and the Knicks and his obvious political bravery. Hey, who wants to join the IGNORANT FAN CLUB?

I don't want to handicap the Knicks for his Bravery. How about that?  This is a Knicks forum. Not a Kanter Klub.
Title: Re: The original Kam(s)ter
Post by: Kam on February 02, 2019, 06:00:06 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 02, 2019, 05:54:13 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 02, 2019, 03:39:04 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 02, 2019, 03:30:54 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 02, 2019, 03:26:11 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 02, 2019, 01:47:02 PM
Quote from: Jack Straw on February 02, 2019, 11:27:14 AM

Kanter has staked out a very dangerous political position (and can't return to Turkey as long as Erdogan and the AKP are in power).  This all to say, that in may way Enes is living in a different and dangerous world in which he is under a lot of stress.

jes sayin'....

And this engenders sympathy from some of the fan base.  Everything he does is about garnering sympathy.  For his plight... either the Knicks are screwing him or Turkey is.  He is the guy who is screwed over and wants everyone to know.

That act gets old.  Just saying.

This coming from the original Anti-Kanter. Really! How many Lire are you getting from Recep? Where do you go to exchange them?

You like his game?

Recep’s game? NO!

Enes game? YES! He ain’t perfect but, at a reasonable price I’d very much like to keep him. See, I’m one of those (according to Prez-Ike) IGNORANT FANS who value his rebounding and scoring. He just needs to play next to a good defender. And to you, I’d submit that it ain’t his fault somebody gave him a $17 mil contract.

In addition to all that, me and other IGNORANT FANS also appreciate his seeming love for NY and the Knicks and his obvious political bravery. Hey, who wants to join the IGNORANT FAN CLUB?
I totally agree with Carlos. The man is not an all-star and he has issues on defense. But he rebounds, he scores, and he plays as hard as he can. The level of animus against him seems way out of proportion to his play.

The other team loves him too.
Title: Fuck You KP
Post by: Kam on February 02, 2019, 06:04:47 PM
We went through a  17 win season for you.
We suffered through your season ending injury last year.
We knew it was a 2-year sentence in purgatory.
We waited for you to come back and you can't commit to us?

FUCK YOU ASS CLOWN
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 02, 2019, 06:05:54 PM
Still waiting for KP to say he didn't want to be traded.
Title: Re: The original Kam(s)ter
Post by: carlos123 on February 02, 2019, 07:13:01 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 02, 2019, 05:59:23 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 02, 2019, 03:39:04 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 02, 2019, 03:30:54 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 02, 2019, 03:26:11 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 02, 2019, 01:47:02 PM
Quote from: Jack Straw on February 02, 2019, 11:27:14 AM

Kanter has staked out a very dangerous political position (and can't return to Turkey as long as Erdogan and the AKP are in power).  This all to say, that in may way Enes is living in a different and dangerous world in which he is under a lot of stress.

jes sayin'....

And this engenders sympathy from some of the fan base.  Everything he does is about garnering sympathy.  For his plight... either the Knicks are screwing him or Turkey is.  He is the guy who is screwed over and wants everyone to know.

That act gets old.  Just saying.

This coming from the original Anti-Kanter. Really! How many Lire are you getting from Recep? Where do you go to exchange them?

You like his game?

Recep’s game? NO!

Enes game? YES! He ain’t perfect but, at a reasonable price I’d very much like to keep him. See, I’m one of those (according to Prez-Ike) IGNORANT FANS who value his rebounding and scoring. He just needs to play next to a good defender. And to you, I’d submit that it ain’t his fault somebody gave him a $17 mil contract.

In addition to all that, me and other IGNORANT FANS also appreciate his seeming love for NY and the Knicks and his obvious political bravery. Hey, who wants to join the IGNORANT FAN CLUB?

I don't want to handicap the Knicks for his Bravery. How about that?  This is a Knicks forum. Not a Kanter Klub.

I also submitted good reasons to keep him as a player on a new reasonable contract. Welcome to the other club, the IGNORANT ANTI-KANTER KLUB.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 02, 2019, 07:16:28 PM
Caller to FAN:

"I have it on GOOD AUTHORITY that Porzingis walked into Perry's office - and said, "Fizdale goes or I go"
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on February 02, 2019, 07:27:13 PM
the knicks have 75 million plus the mid-level.

that is a lot of cash.

does anyone want it is the question.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 02, 2019, 07:41:47 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 02, 2019, 02:02:09 PM
The guys who get their raises to play here together very well might not be of the current super-duper-star tier.

One example, Middleton for $25 mil, Portis at $17, and Aminu at $17 million. You have some cap space left to retain your own guys.

Robinson Kornet
Portis Vonleh
Aminu Knox
Middleton Dotson Frank
SmithJr Trier

We’d have 2 draft picks, some wiggle room & future assets to build up from there.

hahahahhhh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 02, 2019, 09:22:05 PM
I haven’t watched too much Bulls action recently, so let me withdraw Portis and put some more money on the table, probably by paying Lance to go away. I still think Middleton is a very good piece to have for his 2 way production at SG and SF. Guys like that give us more flexibility in how we can deploy our kids without taking training wheels off. Instead of Portis, Tobias Harris, who is putting up KP numbers with more dimes and less (much less) blocks.

I’m still sticking with Aminu as the third contract.

Kornet Robinson
Aminu Vonleh
Harris Knox
Middleton Dotson Ntilikina
SmithJr Trier

Add rooks and stir.

Title: Re: Fuck You KP
Post by: Merciless on February 02, 2019, 09:33:02 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 02, 2019, 06:04:47 PM
We went through a  17 win season for you.
We suffered through your season ending injury last year.
We knew it was a 2-year sentence in purgatory.
We waited for you to come back and you can't commit to us?

FUCK YOU ASS CLOWN

I guess we know which camp you're sitting in. You've bought into the FO bullshit and spin. Question is how the fuck can you trust Mills?If there is an ASS CLOWN in the org, its Mills. He should've taken that ridiculous THJ contract he signed off on and shoved it up his ass if he wanted to make it disappear.

https://clutchpoints.com/mavs-rumors-willingness-take-tim-hardawayjr-courtney-lee-contracts-sealed-kristaps-porzingis-trade/ (https://clutchpoints.com/mavs-rumors-willingness-take-tim-hardawayjr-courtney-lee-contracts-sealed-kristaps-porzingis-trade/)
Title: Re: Fuck You KP
Post by: Kam on February 02, 2019, 11:25:47 PM
Quote from: Merciless on February 02, 2019, 09:33:02 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 02, 2019, 06:04:47 PM
We went through a  17 win season for you.
We suffered through your season ending injury last year.
We knew it was a 2-year sentence in purgatory.
We waited for you to come back and you can't commit to us?

FUCK YOU ASS CLOWN

I guess we know which camp you're sitting in. You've bought into the FO bullshit and spin.

I'm certainly not in the MAVS camp.

We are all still waiting for KP to say he didn't want to be traded.

Demar Derozan gets traded. He takes it hard.

KP gets traded.

All smiles.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 03, 2019, 12:24:13 AM
Quote from: Kam on February 02, 2019, 03:31:15 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 02, 2019, 03:23:58 PM
I was surprised when we ditched both Hernancortez and Kuz, both of whom were KZ buds.  Apparently, Willy still a good friend of KZ, in regular contact.

The constant turnover couldn't have helped.  What did we get for Willy anyway?  A 2nd rounder I think, and we've actually used those pretty well lately.

I thought it was 2 2nd rounders.

Indeed it is.
Title: Hey Chip
Post by: carlos123 on February 03, 2019, 01:35:54 AM
What’s up with you?

We’re missing your input on KP, and also on EK.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 03, 2019, 02:10:22 AM
Quote from: Kam on February 02, 2019, 03:31:15 PM
I thought it was 2 2nd rounders.

As far as I can tell we traded two of our 2nd round picks (2020 & '21) to 76ers to get Willy.  And then traded him to CHA for 2 of their 2nd rounders, same years.  Anyway, it was another Sell Low trade by the Knix.  With a friend of KZ's heading out.

Quote from: Kam on February 02, 2019, 06:04:47 PM
We are all still waiting for KP to say he didn't want to be traded

Uh, no.  We're waiting to hear that KZ said he wanted to be traded.  That could have forced PerryMills' hand.  But they had a deal in place, ready to Sell Low.

Quote
Demar Derozan gets traded. He takes it hard.
KP gets traded.  All smiles.

DeMar had been on a winning team for a decade where he built friendships, enjoyed playoff runs and was part of the community.  KZ was a few years on a dysfunctional losing team with a revolving cast of coaches, players, management.  Big difference.

Even if KZ wanted out, I'd call his bluff, get him signed to a 5 year max, get him back on the court (and see if he could get back into the team), and then look to trade him if he still wanted out.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 03, 2019, 03:14:03 AM
You were dead set to commit $130 million to a guy coming off major surgery who had questions about the team?  He said he would recruit players to come play with him in NYC.  He stopped singing that tune.  Who did we get... Mario?
Title: Re: Fuck You KP
Post by: elephant on February 03, 2019, 04:38:17 AM
Quote from: Kam on February 02, 2019, 11:25:47 PM

We are all still waiting for KP to say he didn't want to be traded.

Demar Derozan gets traded. He takes it hard.

KP gets traded.

All smiles.

I get that you're pissed at the guy. But this comparison is absurd.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on February 03, 2019, 06:45:40 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 03, 2019, 02:10:22 AM
Quote from: Kam on February 02, 2019, 03:31:15 PM
I thought it was 2 2nd rounders.

As far as I can tell we traded two of our 2nd round picks (2020 & '21) to 76ers to get Willy.  And then traded him to CHA for 2 of their 2nd rounders, same years.  Anyway, it was another Sell Low trade by the Knix.  With a friend of KZ's heading out.

Quote from: Kam on February 02, 2019, 06:04:47 PM
We are all still waiting for KP to say he didn't want to be traded
Quote

Uh, no.  We're waiting to hear that KZ said he wanted to be traded.  That could have forced PerryMills' hand.  But they had a deal in place, ready to Sell Low.

Quote
Demar Derozan gets traded. He takes it hard.
KP gets traded.  All smiles.

DeMar had been on a winning team for a decade where he built friendships, enjoyed playoff runs and was part of the community.  KZ was a few years on a dysfunctional losing team with a revolving cast of coaches, players, management.  Big difference.

Even if KZ wanted out, I'd call his bluff, get him signed to a 5 year max, get him back on the court (and see if he could get back into the team), and then look to trade him if he still wanted out.

I think the knix learned by the Allan H. misadventure. KP was frustrated by the lack of recovery. Mavs willing to gamble.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 03, 2019, 11:17:49 AM
Quote
New York began to speak to teams about different trade scenarios involving Porzingis in the days leading up to Thursday.

"When the meeting occurred this morning, we'd already been having many conversations with a number of teams," Perry said Thursday. "So we decided to act upon one."

At the time of their trade of Porzingis, the Knicks had several offers for the 23-year-old big man, league sources told ESPN.

But multiple teams interested in making an offer for Porzingis said that they were unable to do so before New York traded Porzingis to Dallas, league sources said.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 03, 2019, 12:22:44 PM
A level of diligence and acumen we have come to expect.



***Stay Woke, my brothers!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 03, 2019, 12:26:58 PM
Reminiscent of signing Baker to the two year MLE when nobody wanted him at more than the minimum. Or blowing our budget on Timmy Jr, overpaying him (a move which several here defended, but now clearly looks like a mistake). I blame Steve Mills - he's got that Isiah Thomas tendency where once he's got his mind made up, no price is too high.

This deal is great is if we replace KP with another all-star plus something else, OR if KP continues to be injury prone. Otherwise, there may have been better ways to go about the same end goal.

The reason I'm not as down as Bo is because a) I think DSJ may yet be an asset, it's still early (especially for a PG) b) if we strike out on the big names and do NOT take the path Fac has suggested in terms of stockpiling effective but high-priced role players, I think we can do a bit of a Philly-type process, learning from both their hits and misses and c) as much as I would have preferred to build around KP rather than DSJ and two future picks, I wasn't without my misgivings regarding his injury. (I think his attitude issues have been a bit overblown).

Really, my biggest problem is how quickly the deal was done. I fear - as was the case with, say, the Tyson Chandler deal, coincidentally also with Dallas - that there were better offers out there.
Title: An optimistic view
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 03, 2019, 12:39:23 PM
As of today, in 100 alternate universes, the Knicks end up with the 1st pick and Zion 14 times. They end up with the 2nd pick (and presumably RJ?) 13 times, the third pick 13 times, the fourth pick 12 times. These odds are the same so long as the Knicks stay in the bottom three teams.

I think if the Knicks get Zion, they get at least one all-NBA guy in free agency, let's say 13 out of 14 times. The hype will be too great.

If they get RJ, I'd say we're still looking at 8-10 out of 13 times; perhaps some of those are factoring in the pick being traded for Anthony Davis. If the Celtics don't put Jayson Tatum on the table, RJ Barrett might appeal more than Jaylen Brown or Brandon Ingram.

If they get someone else 3rd or even 4th, I think we're still looking at something like something like 6-12 out of 25 times. And if we pick just a bit lower, we're still not out of the game.

All that to say that between now and early July is a long time, and it's hard to have a definitive view that the Knicks have erred until, at the earliest, we see how free agency shakes out. I think it's best to withhold becoming too committed to any judgments.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 03, 2019, 01:01:05 PM
Well I wouldn't bet on it, but this can all still end up wildly entertaining, no doubt, despite the continued amateur-hour management & Trumpian obfuscation of truth under the auspices of the sporting world's most noxious owner-musician.

My personal preference in the candy store, since we are apparently going to buy rather than grow, and which will no doubt make Bo cringe, but won't happen — no worries — is for landing a Kawhi/Boogie combo. A nice marriage of introvert/extrovert. The  best all-rounder of the crop, a guy who can proven bring it in the final round, and then, despite his ludicrous flaws, an amazingly multi-talented true big, something I can't help but always have a soft spot for. Kyrie? He is just turning out to be so flaked. Davis? So dull. Durant? Was never impressed with end-game when it counted at OKC though maybe he's learned something with the Warriors. We seem to have the necessary young jackrabbit scoring guards to mix in (or, should it be preferred in such a line-up, our much-maligned French defender in the making)

The draft pick? Well, you throw in Zion of course and it all becomes extra-delicious, but I'm not counting on that. The lottery is really just a carnival crane claw machine what with the new odds.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 03, 2019, 01:22:27 PM
So.......

as we get a look at Mr D A Jordan...

what do we do if we really like him?

---

Hearing on telecast that Fiz will in fact use Frank and Dennis together at times, with Frank playing off the ball and checking the taller guy (likely the 2 as well)

How good can Frank be as an off the ball, play the passing lanes, read defender?  I'd like to see.

IOf he can scorer - and can play 30 minutes, could we have an NBA steals leader (or top 5)  type that coukld vye for All Defense teams?  I still see the backup role....... but who knows,as we seem to have no desire, no vision to deal him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 03, 2019, 01:29:25 PM
Steve Mills on MSG

Felt they should do something by 2/7 ......that was the key date.....before the leverage shifted

Had about EIGHT scenarios they were comfortable with to deal KP.

KP made it clear to Knicks in a meeting HE requested that he was NOT re-signing with the Knicks

Wow.

Also

----

D Smith Jr hits his only shot then sits with 2 fouls.  Isnt there something in terms of coaching that Fiz can impart to these young guys to stay on the freaking court? Frank, Mitch.......now the Young Dennis after his first Fiz pregame..........

Fouling SUCKS!  We sure have enough coaches - maybe they can start having an impact.  Is it just Fiz's scrambling D he likes so much?  Possibly.

Thoughts on Mills info and the team defensive approach?
Title: Re: An optimistic view
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 03, 2019, 01:32:04 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on February 03, 2019, 12:39:23 PM
As of today, in 100 alternate universes, the Knicks end up with the 1st pick and Zion 14 times. They end up with the 2nd pick (and presumably RJ?) 13 times, the third pick 13 times, the fourth pick 12 times. These odds are the same so long as the Knicks stay in the bottom three teams.

I think if the Knicks get Zion, they get at least one all-NBA guy in free agency, let's say 13 out of 14 times. The hype will be too great.

If they get RJ, I'd say we're still looking at 8-10 out of 13 times; perhaps some of those are factoring in the pick being traded for Anthony Davis. If the Celtics don't put Jayson Tatum on the table, RJ Barrett might appeal more than Jaylen Brown or Brandon Ingram.

If they get someone else 3rd or even 4th, I think we're still looking at something like something like 6-12 out of 25 times. And if we pick just a bit lower, we're still not out of the game.

All that to say that between now and early July is a long time, and it's hard to have a definitive view that the Knicks have erred until, at the earliest, we see how free agency shakes out. I think it's best to withhold becoming too committed to any judgments.
I think with the #1 slot (worst record) the lowest we can drop is #4

With the 2 - to 5

3 to 6

etc
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 03, 2019, 01:35:12 PM
KP with his cryptic "stay woke" message?

Yeah, that's kind of dickish.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 03, 2019, 01:52:27 PM
Funny thought for those of you already ordering your Zion Knicks jersey:

What if we start winning with the new guys?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on February 03, 2019, 02:04:57 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 02, 2019, 01:59:09 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 02, 2019, 12:08:37 PM

Okay, okay, maybe this is just something I'm telling myself. But I think the current scenario gives us a better chance to land a superstar than the one we had a week ago.

I agree with this.

Me too.

Happy to know I can agree with elephant (what was your old handle?) on something at least.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on February 03, 2019, 02:09:14 PM
Quote from: Nagel on February 02, 2019, 04:25:51 PM
NY has a 86% ( or less chance of NOT  getting Zion)  so talk of him on NY is simply typical wishful thinking.

NY has a beter chance at luring 2 free agents at max salary.  who they may be is a complete unknown and won't be for another 6 months.

If KP asked for a trade then NY did the right thing.  if he didn't then they fucked up.  fairly simple.

i have no faith in NY Management.  that goes from Dolan to Mills to Perry to the coach.  Perhaps KP felt the same way.

https://twitter.com/KnickFilmSchool/status/1092130151704526854

Quote
Mills: "It was a meeting that [KP] requested, they made it clear to us that he did not want to play for the Knicks, that he was not going to re-sign with us as a free agent."

And then if you want to "pretend" that the Knicks had no idea about it and were wrong to shop him around this season:

https://twitter.com/KnickFilmSchool/status/1092133984459546624

Quote
@wojespn recently said “it was no mystery around the league and it was no mystery among other players that [KP] didn’t like being there, didn’t want to be there anymore, and obviously told them that Thursday”

So, what do all who are mad at the Knicks for trading him think of this now?

KP can do one, as they say across the pond, for all I care.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on February 03, 2019, 03:38:58 PM
i'm not mad at KP.  he will be happier in Dallas with Doncic.

one hell on a 1-2.

summer will tell if NY will hold any interest for me.

clearly if Durant and Irving sign then of course.  if not then very unlikely.  Zion is a pipe dream and I gave that up years ago.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on February 03, 2019, 03:43:13 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on February 03, 2019, 02:09:14 PM

So, what do all who are mad at the Knicks for trading him think of this now?

KP can do one, as they say across the pond, for all I care.

Really hard to triangulate:  an incompetent FO (Baker & THJ contracts, muddying Frank's waters, or Franking Muds stamp on the team - either way too much redundancy too much), an evil brother Janis who clearly outgrew Riga, is very impressed with himself, and sees himself a player, and a young unicorn who is still very immature and like his brother very impressed with himself...

Does anyone really think the FO let the KP offer percolate and stew the required time to get the best offer?   On the one hand  threats were made about comfort and fit, but who really thinks a player coming of an ACL would really sign a QO and take on the risk?  The FO didn't have the moxie to call that bluff I guess...

Between the three of them communications must have been fraught, jumbled, and fuzzy at best.
And god knows where Dolan's hand was in all this - but it was somewhere...
A very typical Knicks CF...and in that regard nothing has changed...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on February 03, 2019, 03:47:03 PM
Of course all will be forgiven if the FO actually manages to sign either KD or Kawhi plus one...

but who really believes this FO can pull that off?  Let's just hope Perry is not in a wheel chair with a huge collar around his neck when he meets with KD's handlers...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 03, 2019, 03:51:08 PM
It’s going to be more than 10 games settling rotations and adjusting to tendencies to have a chance to play our better ball, with the new guys, and then Frank and Manny to work in. We’ll easily have stacked up 50 losses before we’re in any danger of winning one.

Potential sell offs by Bulls and Cavs are a bigger danger to our lotto chances at the moment.

Some ugly waters ahead.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on February 03, 2019, 04:46:32 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 03, 2019, 03:51:08 PM
It’s going to be more than 10 games settling rotations and adjusting to tendencies to have a chance to play our better ball, with the new guys, and then Frank and Manny to work in. We’ll easily have stacked up 50 losses before we’re in any danger of winning one.

Potential sell offs by Bulls and Cavs are a bigger danger to our lotto chances at the moment.

Some ugly waters ahead.

An interesting by-product of the new draft chances are that *more* teams are tanking harder than ever to go low.

This is resulting in a tsunami of mid-grade talent being shopped in February as a fire sale.  The FO was wise in trading early.

They need not to wait too long.  A number of teams are going to be stuck with players they would prefer to have moved.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on February 03, 2019, 05:06:32 PM
Quote from: Jack Straw on February 03, 2019, 03:43:13 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on February 03, 2019, 02:09:14 PM

So, what do all who are mad at the Knicks for trading him think of this now?

KP can do one, as they say across the pond, for all I care.

Really hard to triangulate:  an incompetent FO (Baker & THJ contracts, muddying Frank's waters, or Franking Muds stamp on the team - either way too much redundancy too much), an evil brother Janis who clearly outgrew Riga, is very impressed with himself, and sees himself a player, and a young unicorn who is still very immature and like his brother very impressed with himself...

Does anyone really think the FO let the KP offer percolate and stew the required time to get the best offer?   On the one hand  threats were made about comfort and fit, but who really thinks a player coming of an ACL would really sign a QO and take on the risk?  The FO didn't have the moxie to call that bluff I guess...

Between the three of them communications must have been fraught, jumbled, and fuzzy at best.
And god knows where Dolan's hand was in all this - but it was somewhere...
A very typical Knicks CF...and in that regard nothing has changed...

From what I read and hear, the Knicks had been looking at offers for KP before the meeting so they had already assessed what they could get. Nets, and I forget what other teams made offers, and we offered him to N.O. who said nope.

Dallas' one was probably the best for what they thought they should do if they traded him. When he approached them with the meeting and told them what's up they must have thought if this comes out in the media (i.e. AD's situation) then his value would be even less, so they took the offer.

Had they sat on it or shopped him elsewhere, it might have led to even worse offers, especially if the story came out...which it did anyway that morning, about the meeting between he and the FO. His value could  have diminished had it been clear to other teams he wanted out.

Who knows, but I can see why they did it when they did rather than wait. That meeting likely clarified things between KP and the FO so they then moved immediately on the best offer they felt they had received, and ironically just finalized the night before with Dallas in town.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on February 03, 2019, 05:08:25 PM
Quote from: Jack Straw on February 03, 2019, 03:47:03 PM
Of course all will be forgiven if the FO actually manages to sign either KD or Kawhi plus one...

but who really believes this FO can pull that off?  Let's just hope Perry is not in a wheel chair with a huge collar around his neck when he meets with KD's handlers...

We haven't heard Kawhi at all as an option for us though have we? Possible, but that depends on a lot of things we don't know yet.

Seems most likely Kyrie and KD together, with possibly AD joining as well depending on what happens with the lotto and the Knicks thinking.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on February 03, 2019, 05:26:33 PM
No Prez, Kawhi has not been mentioned, but he can't be ignored or dismissed.  Max plus one is max plus one, and due diligence is due diligence.

But do you really trust "the inside dope" that KD is really interested in NYC?  It's along time until July...

Also Kyrie - he of the flat worlders - seems pretty skittery about how he feels on any given day...say the Celts make a deep run, then maybe Kyrie will decide - hey the earth is round and the navel is Beantown...

just saying - who knows what lurks in the hearts of men.....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on February 03, 2019, 05:30:28 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on February 03, 2019, 05:06:32 PM
Quote from: Jack Straw on February 03, 2019, 03:43:13 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on February 03, 2019, 02:09:14 PM

So, what do all who are mad at the Knicks for trading him think of this now?

KP can do one, as they say across the pond, for all I care.

Really hard to triangulate:  an incompetent FO (Baker & THJ contracts, muddying Frank's waters, or Franking Muds stamp on the team - either way too much redundancy too much), an evil brother Janis who clearly outgrew Riga, is very impressed with himself, and sees himself a player, and a young unicorn who is still very immature and like his brother very impressed with himself...

Does anyone really think the FO let the KP offer percolate and stew the required time to get the best offer?   On the one hand  threats were made about comfort and fit, but who really thinks a player coming of an ACL would really sign a QO and take on the risk?  The FO didn't have the moxie to call that bluff I guess...

Between the three of them communications must have been fraught, jumbled, and fuzzy at best.
And god knows where Dolan's hand was in all this - but it was somewhere...
A very typical Knicks CF...and in that regard nothing has changed...

From what I read and hear, the Knicks had been looking at offers for KP before the meeting so they had already assessed what they could get. Nets, and I forget what other teams made offers, and we offered him to N.O. who said nope.

Dallas' one was probably the best for what they thought they should do if they traded him. When he approached them with the meeting and told them what's up they must have thought if this comes out in the media (i.e. AD's situation) then his value would be even less, so they took the offer.

Had they sat on it or shopped him elsewhere, it might have led to even worse offers, especially if the story came out...which it did anyway that morning, about the meeting between he and the FO. His value could  have diminished had it been clear to other teams he wanted out.

Who knows, but I can see why they did it when they did rather than wait.

The idea that the FO is incompetent is one of the assumptions preventing many Knicks fans from understanding the dynamics of this trade and its significance.

The FO has probably had a number of potential Porzingis buyers in their back pocket since this past summer. They were also plenty aware of and had a belly full of the Porzingis brothers complaints and -cough- recommendations.  THE FO didn't particularly need any more excuse to cut this idiot out.

The first phone call they probably made may have been to New Orleans to see if they could acquire AD and by all reports NO said, "No thanks."  What went unreported is what else NO might have said.

Because NO might have added, "Come back to us with a couple of draft picks and we can get serious."

And, as they say, "the plot thickens".

In the meantime, AD is being roasted by pundits and professionals for having been had [by LA and their minions].

AND..., the Lakers are melting down in turmoil as we post.  None of that can be appetizing to AD on second and third thought.

So forget the mega-ocean of cash the Knicks have to spend this summer. In the coming few days the Knicks can offer NO a couple of unprotected first round picks for AD, and expiring contract or two, and maybe a young player or two.  And that offer for AD doesn't even make a dent in the remaining flexibility to could a blue chip FA or two.

And if not AD, how about Gasol? or...

Good time to be a Knicks fan.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on February 03, 2019, 05:31:53 PM
Quote from: Jack Straw on February 03, 2019, 05:26:33 PM
No Prez, Kawhi has not been mentioned, but he can't be ignored or dismissed.  Max plus one is max plus one, and due diligence is due diligence.

But do you really trust "the inside dope" that KD is really interested in NYC?  It's along time until July...

Also Kyrie - he of the flat worlders - seems pretty skittery about how he feels on any given day...say the Celts make a deep run, then maybe Kyrie will decide - hey the earth is round and the navel is Beantown...

just saying - who knows what lurks in the hearts of men.....

Kyrie ain't coming.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 03, 2019, 05:51:09 PM
AD has said he is playing one year then going to LA. Knicks could have tried to get him, with those parameters.  As Celtics now can.

Can Celtics take AD for 2020 then do a sign and trade,netting assets from Lakers?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 03, 2019, 05:52:27 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on February 03, 2019, 05:30:28 PM
Good time to be a Knicks fan.

Like saying, Good time to have a lobotomy ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on February 03, 2019, 06:01:11 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 03, 2019, 05:51:09 PM
AD has said he is playing one year then going to LA. Knicks could have tried to get him, with those parameters.  As Celtics now can.

Can Celtics take AD for 2020 then do a sign and trade,netting assets from Lakers?

Well, what's so special about the Celtics?  Any team could play that game. Correct?  The real question is, what could you get from a Lakers team that will have an aging, evermore desperate Lebron trying to fix the odds?  Most of their players who aren't geriatric are rather pedestrian talent-wise.  Boston, today has better players.

More picks? AD ain't coming for free. Is there a net gain?

Sounds dubious.

If Boston or NY trades for AD - they plan on locking him up not risking one and done.

NY is a nice fit. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on February 03, 2019, 06:03:04 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 03, 2019, 05:52:27 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on February 03, 2019, 05:30:28 PM
Good time to be a Knicks fan.

Like saying, Good time to have a lobotomy ...

The Porzingis trade will go down as one of NY's finest.  The first in a domino effect.

 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 03, 2019, 06:03:38 PM
Wonder if KZ wanted the meeting and wanted out because he heard the Knix were shopping him. 

Even if KZ wanted out, that doesn't absolve PerryMills.
The other issue is why did KZ want out?
Why wouldn't he want to play in NYC?
The roster/team/management turnover and disarray certainly didn't help.  Neither did Phil's interest in trading him.  Firing Longstaff, the coach who worked closely with KZ.  The way Melo was treated.  Etc.

Btw, last 2 Knick big FA signings -- Tim Jr & Noah ...
Further, the way Melo was treated (and Noah and Kanter) and KZ jettisoned can't endear the Knix to agents and players.  I assume the perception is that the team is still a dumpster fire and unstable.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on February 03, 2019, 06:15:39 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 03, 2019, 06:03:38 PM
Wonder if KZ wanted the meeting and wanted out because he heard the Knix were shopping him. 

Even if KZ wanted out, that doesn't absolve PerryMills.
The other issue is why did KZ want out?
Why wouldn't he want to play in NYC?
The roster/team/management turnover and disarray certainly didn't help.  Neither did Phil's interest in trading him.  Firing Longstaff, the coach who worked closely with KZ.  The way Melo was treated.  Etc.

Btw, last 2 Knick big FA signings -- Tim Jr & Noah ...

KP was a bad apple.  It was obvious to Phil and his team and KP simply confirmed it this season.  I personally shuddered at the thought of being stuck with the SOB.  Couldn't be happier that he's gone - rotten to the core.

KP didn't necessarily want out, he wanted power, he wanted the FO to cave in so he could act like a Melo gangstah.  He's a player who because of money imagines himself to be somebody when he's a nobody.  THE fo was well prepared - Porzingis was out before the door could hit him in the ass.

Dallas will show him that same door the minute he pulls that crap there. In three years they'll be erecting a statue in China of Porzingis. He's not long for the NBA.

THE FO has been stable for a long time except in the fiction of fan forums.  Dolan sleeps well.  Mills has been great and Perry is doing a fine job.  This is a year of sacrifice that feels awful.  Its almost over.

BTW: we still have a unicorn in Frankie - he's the real deal and always was.  We are loaded with players on the cusp of greatness and we haven't been punked as the NBA dumping ground for a long time.

To the top!

As for agents, I'm expecting Durant to reunite with Westbrook in NY, not Kyrie.

Unfinished business.

 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 03, 2019, 07:41:46 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 03, 2019, 05:52:27 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on February 03, 2019, 05:30:28 PM
Good time to be a Knicks fan.

Like saying, Good time to have a lobotomy ...

Great time to stick your arm in a meat grinder ...

14th straight home loss. Another record. Again, given the history of this franchise, achieving milestones like these requires truly extraordinary abilities.


*** Fiz is troooooly extraordinary
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 03, 2019, 07:55:56 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on February 03, 2019, 06:15:39 PM

KP was a bad apple.  It was obvious to Phil and his team and KP simply confirmed it this season.  I personally shuddered at the thought of being stuck with the SOB.  Couldn't be happier that he's gone - rotten to the core.


This forum has become better than any comedy channel that existed in the past, exists today or will ever exist in any possible future.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 03, 2019, 07:56:57 PM
Conley & Gasol were fine wine today. Very interesting to see if and where they move.
Title: WELCOME
Post by: carlos123 on February 03, 2019, 08:12:28 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on February 03, 2019, 07:55:56 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on February 03, 2019, 06:15:39 PM

KP was a bad apple.  It was obvious to Phil and his team and KP simply confirmed it this season.  I personally shuddered at the thought of being stuck with the SOB.  Couldn't be happier that he's gone - rotten to the core.


This forum has become better than any comedy channel that existed in the past, exists today or will ever exist in any possible future.

Hey, Les, as the founder of the IGNORANT FAN CLUB, I welcome you into it, and hereby name you as the spokesman for us IGNORANT FANS.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 03, 2019, 08:15:47 PM
We are proudly, the IFC...IGNANT FANS CLUB of NYC!
Title: IFC of NYC
Post by: carlos123 on February 03, 2019, 08:29:53 PM
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/rO4wqblfDajJt1rwvdiVo0c9QRXxMZRyb-M6TiblM3rzOIyQ6GfoBRxRp7Rna1TzqddhQqBwswA73NDI1olMAnsJM6L0nePOkkC35lE3eBLErJ8PBdHIDVb45ki5nlo-47lak1jZMvw0zwr83ErGtg4WSxKKcCo8aaHLQF-WhI570SVt-xj5iox7rpDA9zenxcXxfhqwhgA-J-6t8SrOPsGm3j5W8wmxbHi_cZUtKME3J-OSq8nJyV2hcIkm-FV4lXSB2B80O8_vbxzEC_ebtuihw67D76qL32JxBGHb4nsst8AX40x7Gr8UiVOM-YIm6TAU7rIjQjLrxloNUNrDqFlg5bgSzvile4UpzdA95H7nddGGrsZyFfbWfRGRlYil3medPxI9QIrCT8GTeMC1-COINP41LdJlY7JYIDNL8pfupknSLbaBZvUxkrsMiNOvbF6MoAhwxQsGOVV0-4Awo6QReaYpKnTjXT-Pt40IQNf2DKh2YUD3hF7kdeiGVm3EX5EkaMohEB-n3xY0DE4iqK8k53emq-7lSKr-6j_V05SEcI0j_DrCkrvwqnZIeMHBa3Hpwk8UvrHizghms49oh4E3-pH4HwcBSO2oVTak2St5EOnhJO4Lo9mV87pE_MnG8eMMcNQoz3vuCTjGmUN-3sDigBCrZMk=w542-h518-no)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 03, 2019, 08:46:45 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 03, 2019, 06:03:38 PM

The other issue is why did KZ want out?
Why wouldn't he want to play in NYC?

Doesn't matter why. We will never forgive him.
Why would you leave? Exactly.  Why KP?

Fuck him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 03, 2019, 09:15:40 PM
Quote from: Nagel on February 03, 2019, 03:38:58 PM
i'm not mad at KP.  he will be happier in Dallas with Doncic.

one hell on a 1-2.

summer will tell if NY will hold any interest for me.



Nobody gives a fuck if you are interested
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 03, 2019, 09:19:12 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on February 03, 2019, 05:06:32 PM
Quote from: Jack Straw on February 03, 2019, 03:43:13 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on February 03, 2019, 02:09:14 PM

So, what do all who are mad at the Knicks for trading him think of this now?

KP can do one, as they say across the pond, for all I care.

Really hard to triangulate:  an incompetent FO (Baker & THJ contracts, muddying Frank's waters, or Franking Muds stamp on the team - either way too much redundancy too much), an evil brother Janis who clearly outgrew Riga, is very impressed with himself, and sees himself a player, and a young unicorn who is still very immature and like his brother very impressed with himself...

Does anyone really think the FO let the KP offer percolate and stew the required time to get the best offer?   On the one hand  threats were made about comfort and fit, but who really thinks a player coming of an ACL would really sign a QO and take on the risk?  The FO didn't have the moxie to call that bluff I guess...

Between the three of them communications must have been fraught, jumbled, and fuzzy at best.
And god knows where Dolan's hand was in all this - but it was somewhere...
A very typical Knicks CF...and in that regard nothing has changed...

From what I read and hear, the Knicks had been looking at offers for KP before the meeting so they had already assessed what they could get. Nets, and I forget what other teams made offers, and we offered him to N.O. who said nope.

Dallas' one was probably the best for what they thought they should do if they traded him. When he approached them with the meeting and told them what's up they must have thought if this comes out in the media (i.e. AD's situation) then his value would be even less, so they took the offer.

Had they sat on it or shopped him elsewhere, it might have led to even worse offers, especially if the story came out...which it did anyway that morning, about the meeting between he and the FO. His value could  have diminished had it been clear to other teams he wanted out.

Who knows, but I can see why they did it when they did rather than wait. That meeting likely clarified things between KP and the FO so they then moved immediately on the best offer they felt they had received, and ironically just finalized the night before with Dallas in town.

Only thing that might be questionable is why Knicks didnt look to do a three way with Lakers and Pels.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 03, 2019, 09:39:04 PM
Could Dallas have sweetened the pot?  We got all their assets.


We got youth (w/upside), picks, and cap space.

The trade checked all three boxes.

Was there a better deal to be made?

Maybe.   I don't know.  But i don't see how Dallas could've done more.
Title: There you go again, Chico
Post by: carlos123 on February 03, 2019, 10:02:01 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 03, 2019, 09:15:40 PM
Quote from: Nagel on February 03, 2019, 03:38:58 PM
i'm not mad at KP.  he will be happier in Dallas with Doncic.

one hell on a 1-2.

summer will tell if NY will hold any interest for me.



Nobody gives a fuck if you are interested

Chico, nobody gives a fuck about your many opinions, this one in particular.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 03, 2019, 10:29:43 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 03, 2019, 06:03:38 PM
Wonder if KZ wanted the meeting and wanted out because he heard the Knix were shopping him. 

Even if KZ wanted out, that doesn't absolve PerryMills.
The other issue is why did KZ want out?
Why wouldn't he want to play in NYC?
The roster/team/management turnover and disarray certainly didn't help.  Neither did Phil's interest in trading him.  Firing Longstaff, the coach who worked closely with KZ.  The way Melo was treated.  Etc.

Btw, last 2 Knick big FA signings -- Tim Jr & Noah ...
Further, the way Melo was treated (and Noah and Kanter) and KZ jettisoned can't endear the Knix to agents and players.  I assume the perception is that the team is still a dumpster fire and unstable.

Knicks upper management appears to be NO NONSENSE right now

The coach is another story.  He was the final straw with Porzingis.  Knicks reaction to KP missing the exit interview (justified) and their firing his personal coach (questionable but nothing to throw a hissy over) were the first two blocks laid, followed by Fiz questioning KP rehab and THE LOSING.
Title: Re: There you go again, Chico
Post by: Nagel on February 03, 2019, 10:33:07 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 03, 2019, 10:02:01 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 03, 2019, 09:15:40 PM
Quote from: Nagel on February 03, 2019, 03:38:58 PM
i'm not mad at KP.  he will be happier in Dallas with Doncic.

one hell on a 1-2.

summer will tell if NY will hold any interest for me.



Nobody gives a fuck if you are interested

Chico, nobody gives a fuck about your many opinions, this one in particular.
.

carlos spare me.  ignore is there for a reason.  thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 03, 2019, 10:38:08 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on February 03, 2019, 06:01:11 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 03, 2019, 05:51:09 PM
AD has said he is playing one year then going to LA. Knicks could have tried to get him, with those parameters.  As Celtics now can.

Can Celtics take AD for 2020 then do a sign and trade,netting assets from Lakers?

Well, what's so special about the Celtics?  Any team could play that game. Correct?  The real question is, what could you get from a Lakers team that will have an aging, evermore desperate Lebron trying to fix the odds?  Most of their players who aren't geriatric are rather pedestrian talent-wise.  Boston, today has better players.

More picks? AD ain't coming for free. Is there a net gain?

Sounds dubious.

If Boston or NY trades for AD - they plan on locking him up not risking one and done.

NY is a nice fit.

Davis isnt signing an extension with anyone except LA.

Thus the question - would Boston take him for a year?
Title: Re: There you go again, Chico
Post by: carlos123 on February 03, 2019, 10:40:08 PM
Quote from: Nagel on February 03, 2019, 10:33:07 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 03, 2019, 10:02:01 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 03, 2019, 09:15:40 PM
Quote from: Nagel on February 03, 2019, 03:38:58 PM
i'm not mad at KP.  he will be happier in Dallas with Doncic.

one hell on a 1-2.

summer will tell if NY will hold any interest for me.



Nobody gives a fuck if you are interested

Chico, nobody gives a fuck about your many opinions, this one in particular.
.

carlos spare me.  ignore is there for a reason.  thanks in advance.

You’re welcome.

Also, I enjoy messing around with Chico. He’s so dumb he’s kinda funny sometimes, especially when he shows his maliciousness.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on February 03, 2019, 11:05:58 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 03, 2019, 10:38:08 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on February 03, 2019, 06:01:11 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 03, 2019, 05:51:09 PM
AD has said he is playing one year then going to LA. Knicks could have tried to get him, with those parameters.  As Celtics now can.

Can Celtics take AD for 2020 then do a sign and trade,netting assets from Lakers?

Well, what's so special about the Celtics?  Any team could play that game. Correct?  The real question is, what could you get from a Lakers team that will have an aging, evermore desperate Lebron trying to fix the odds?  Most of their players who aren't geriatric are rather pedestrian talent-wise.  Boston, today has better players.

More picks? AD ain't coming for free. Is there a net gain?

Sounds dubious.

If Boston or NY trades for AD - they plan on locking him up not risking one and done.

NY is a nice fit.

Davis isnt signing an extension with anyone except LA.

Thus the question - would Boston take him for a year?

Yes. Yes.  Now that you mention it Boston *has* built its pedigree on trading for opportunism when it presents itself and then allowing itself to be bent over a table when the asset decides to bid adieu.

Sure, Boston will do that.

When did you become AD's manager that you're so sure he wouldn't sign with NY?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 04, 2019, 12:41:17 AM
Quote from: FWK00 on February 03, 2019, 06:01:11 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 03, 2019, 05:51:09 PM
AD has said he is playing one year then going to LA. Knicks could have tried to get him, with those parameters.  As Celtics now can.

Can Celtics take AD for 2020 then do a sign and trade,netting assets from Lakers?

Well, what's so special about the Celtics?  Any team could play that game. Correct?  The real question is, what could you get from a Lakers team that will have an aging, evermore desperate Lebron trying to fix the odds?  Most of their players who aren't geriatric are rather pedestrian talent-wise.  Boston, today has better players.

More picks? AD ain't coming for free. Is there a net gain?

Sounds dubious.

If Boston or NY trades for AD - they plan on locking him up not risking one and done.

NY is a nice fit.

Welcome back Fwk, hope you're healthy and happy.

Good point that any team can do this, not just the Celtics, but it presumes the Lakers don't roll over cap space and simply sign AD outright, which is what they probably would do.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 04, 2019, 12:42:24 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 03, 2019, 06:03:38 PM
Even if KZ wanted out, that doesn't absolve PerryMills.
The other issue is why did KZ want out?
Why wouldn't he want to play in NYC?
The roster/team/management turnover and disarray certainly didn't help. 

I think this is a pretty fundamental question, and what bothers me the most.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 04, 2019, 12:43:53 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 03, 2019, 01:29:25 PM
D Smith Jr hits his only shot then sits with 2 fouls.  Isnt there something in terms of coaching that Fiz can impart to these young guys to stay on the freaking court? Frank, Mitch.......now the Young Dennis after his first Fiz pregame..........

Fouling SUCKS!  We sure have enough coaches - maybe they can start having an impact.  Is it just Fiz's scrambling D he likes so much?  Possibly.


Of all the complaints about Fiz, this is the most absurd. Fiz is to blame because after a whole 48 hours as a Knick DSJ still hasn't learned how to stop fouling?
Title: Re: An optimistic view
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 04, 2019, 12:44:55 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 03, 2019, 01:32:04 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on February 03, 2019, 12:39:23 PM
As of today, in 100 alternate universes, the Knicks end up with the 1st pick and Zion 14 times. They end up with the 2nd pick (and presumably RJ?) 13 times, the third pick 13 times, the fourth pick 12 times. These odds are the same so long as the Knicks stay in the bottom three teams.

I think if the Knicks get Zion, they get at least one all-NBA guy in free agency, let's say 13 out of 14 times. The hype will be too great.

If they get RJ, I'd say we're still looking at 8-10 out of 13 times; perhaps some of those are factoring in the pick being traded for Anthony Davis. If the Celtics don't put Jayson Tatum on the table, RJ Barrett might appeal more than Jaylen Brown or Brandon Ingram.

If they get someone else 3rd or even 4th, I think we're still looking at something like something like 6-12 out of 25 times. And if we pick just a bit lower, we're still not out of the game.

All that to say that between now and early July is a long time, and it's hard to have a definitive view that the Knicks have erred until, at the earliest, we see how free agency shakes out. I think it's best to withhold becoming too committed to any judgments.
I think with the #1 slot (worst record) the lowest we can drop is #4

With the 2 - to 5

3 to 6

etc

You're thinking of the old lotto rules. The new ones are as I posted. Worst team, right now the Knicks, has a 48% chance of picking fifth and a 52% chance of finishing in the top four (14/13/13/12 odds).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 04, 2019, 12:52:54 AM
I wonder if the Knicks Brass makes this deal without some faith that Kevin Knox would take over this team from KP eventually anyway.

We have reset the team's window from the 23 year old porsingis' timeline  ($150 come due)
Having to look up at Embiid the next 10 years and his dirty tactics vs our fragile chandelier

To the 20 year old (is he 20 yet) Knox's timeline (rookie wage scale)

+ Mitch and Trier (as 6th man)

+ Frank and Datsun  (if they're not traded)

+ 7 #1 picks in the next 5 drafts

In moving our window out we are setting ourselves to ascend far after the GS dynasty is done
Even after the also-rans have decided to self-immolate:  Houston and others
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 04, 2019, 12:54:37 AM
Knicks FO didn't wanna give him a max deal and then watch Greek Freak and Embiid spend the next decade dunking on a hobbled unicorn
Title: Cavs trade Hood to Blazers
Post by: Kam on February 04, 2019, 12:58:41 AM
Rodney Hood for Nik Stauskas, Wade Baldwin, and picks
Title: 1-25
Post by: Kam on February 04, 2019, 02:10:27 AM
Knicks record when Kevin Knox starts o.0
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 04, 2019, 02:15:26 AM
First, coach Rick Carlisle said on KESN-FM (103.3) that Porzingis' return from his ACL tear last February will be "later than sooner." Then owner Mark Cuban told The News that Porzingis will not play this season because "we want to make sure we are very conservative."
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 04, 2019, 02:27:47 AM
The Knicks have heard from at least one team interested in trading for veteran Wes Matthews, league sources told ESPN. If the Knicks don’t trade Matthews, he’d be a candidate for a buyout. His contract expires after this season.

Sixers
Blazers
Raptors

?
Title: Doomsday Scenarios
Post by: Kam on February 04, 2019, 02:45:05 AM
If we don't land a Top 3 pick and strike out on the Upper Level FAs...

Re-sign DeAndre Jordan
Re-sign Noah Vonleh
Kevin Knox
Frank Ntilikina
Dennis Smith Jr.

Trier
Mudiay
Dotson
Kornet
Robinson

The first rounder
The second rounder
Title: Re: Doomsday Scenarios
Post by: bodiddley on February 04, 2019, 03:06:27 AM
Quote from: Kam on February 04, 2019, 02:45:05 AM
If we don't land a Top 3 pick and strike out on the Upper Level FAs...

Re-sign DeAndre Jordan
Re-sign Noah Vonleh
Kevin Knox
Frank Ntilikina
Dennis Smith Jr.

Trier
Mudiay
Dotson
Kornet
Robinson

The first rounder
The second rounder

One, that's an awful team.  Maybe another sub-20W season.  With Smith Jr or Knox perhaps the #1 option.  Maybe Trier leading us in scoring.  2nd, the minimum salary is pretty high.  Knix likely would need to sign one or two vets to high-priced one year deals.  Like DeAndretheGiant for 1/$20M or whatever.  Maybe we'd have so much cap space we could offer Butler or AD or Kawhi a 1/$40M deal.  Why they'd want to come is hard to fathom.  Not sure my made up #'s align with reality.  But we would have to top up significantly to meet the NBA spending floor.

Maybe the Knix made the trade early so they could flip Wes or DeAtheG to a playoff team.  POR could use Wes more than Robin Hood.  But likely can only get a 2nd rounder for Wes.  And a team would have to have a good deal of expiring $ to send back.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 04, 2019, 06:29:14 AM
Nets should be in the running for a significant FA.
Only $40M committed next season.
They'll re-sign T'angelo.

Tangelo-Dinwiddie-Lavert backcourt.
Joe Harris-Crabbe wing shooters.
RHJ is a good middle cog, but needs to get paid some.
Kurucs a cheap swiss army knife F.
Jarrett Allen down Low.
I'd bring Ed Davis back on a similar $5M deal.
That's 9.

Maybe re-sign DMC if he comes cheap $5M-ish.
Napier is PG insurance at a mere $1.8M team option.

I'm not a Cousin Boogie fan at all.  But maybe he's just what BKY needs.  Actually AD would fit perfectly on this Net team. 
They've got a defensive C so he can play his preferred PF.
They've got shooters and scorers, so AD won't be tasked with carrying a huge load.  Can score efficiently and play defense.  Lotta guys to take a last shot (LaVert; Tangelo; Dimwit) so that AD weakness can be covered up.  Though he'd be a great decoy and/or 2nd/3rd option.

Take this Nets team and add AD and they could be Top 3 East.
Somebody needs to pitch him on this.

Tangelo - Dimwiddie
LaVert - Joe Harris
RHJ - Kurucs
AD - Ed D
Jarrett Allen

Slot in Boogie and it's interesting too.

gad, Nets still paying Deron this year and next ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 04, 2019, 08:26:26 AM
Tobias mentioned prominently for Brooklyn.  But yes, many options.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on February 04, 2019, 08:43:54 AM
Quote from: Jack Straw on February 03, 2019, 05:26:33 PM
No Prez, Kawhi has not been mentioned, but he can't be ignored or dismissed.  Max plus one is max plus one, and due diligence is due diligence.

But do you really trust "the inside dope" that KD is really interested in NYC?  It's along time until July...

Also Kyrie - he of the flat worlders - seems pretty skittery about how he feels on any given day...say the Celts make a deep run, then maybe Kyrie will decide - hey the earth is round and the navel is Beantown...

just saying - who knows what lurks in the hearts of men.....

I just heard Spencer Pearlman in the last Knicks Film School pod day that heard from two different in the knows (on on GS side and one Knicks) that KD is coming. Not might but is.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 04, 2019, 08:50:28 AM
Why are you asking all those questions?  Its all over the news.  KP requested the meeting and the trade

Then, Mills...

"We don't want anyone here that doesn't want to be here"

Of course ideas were already in the works, because that is their job.

And among a reported 8 scenarios, Dallas was best. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 04, 2019, 09:55:38 AM
Quote from: PrezIke on February 04, 2019, 08:43:54 AM
Quote from: Jack Straw on February 03, 2019, 05:26:33 PM
No Prez, Kawhi has not been mentioned, but he can't be ignored or dismissed.  Max plus one is max plus one, and due diligence is due diligence.

But do you really trust "the inside dope" that KD is really interested in NYC?  It's along time until July...

Also Kyrie - he of the flat worlders - seems pretty skittery about how he feels on any given day...say the Celts make a deep run, then maybe Kyrie will decide - hey the earth is round and the navel is Beantown...

just saying - who knows what lurks in the hearts of men.....

I just heard Spencer Pearlman in the last Knicks Film School pod day that heard from two different in the knows (on on GS side and one Knicks) that KD is coming. Not might but is.

Yeah.  Knicks are hiring all of Durant's friends.  Looks promising. 

I still think we need a center.  How about we consider keeping Jordan?  Hopefully KD would be OK with this.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 04, 2019, 10:01:40 AM
Why would Durant come to NYK?
To play with Knox and Smith Jr and Franc?

Durant would be a terrific fit for BKY!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on February 04, 2019, 10:25:39 AM
From Pearlman's lips to gods' ears but  we've got five months to slog through before an UF has to make a decision.  Seems a bit early  to start picking out the drapes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 04, 2019, 11:10:30 AM
Obviously Durant would be amazing, but the key is Kyrie.

- if Kyrie comes Boston is pretty much out of the running for Anthony Davis (AD is far less likely to resign if Kyrie isn't there, and that means Boston's offer is going to be less rich given the risk it's only a rental). I like the Knicks odds of outbidding the Lakers much more than I do their odds of outbidding the Celtics with Kyrie

- it damages the most promising team in the East, with all due respect to the good looking teams in Philly, Milwaukee and Toronto

- Durant is obviously more likely to come if Kyrie comes

- it frees us up to trade DSJ for another piece. DSJ has loads of potential, but he isn't ready for a super team. He's all tools and no hoops IQ right now; he'd actually be a bad fit on a team with Durant. Mudiay is better, but not much, but maybe Mudiay settles for the room exception after all our cap is spent. Anyhow, trade DSJ for a similarly rated defensive minded wing or a big that can soak up minutes at the 5, depending on the situation.

Durant is the better player. But Kyrie is the key piece.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 04, 2019, 11:58:55 AM
What would you have?

Kyrie - Mud
Trier - Franc
Knox
Durant
Kornet - Mitch

+ 1 high 1st round pick, something you get for trading Smith Jr, some vet exception pickup.

Don't think we have too many (any?) players ready for a super-team.
Kornet would likely benefit.  Franc wouldn't take a shot for whole months.

We'd have too much yute and probably need to flip Franc and Knox for a solid vet.  But we wouldn't have any salary to attach (Lance?)

Even with Kyrie and Durant coming, Knix would probably be in the 4-6 range in the East.  Guess it depends how we patch things around them.   Just seems way too much of a gamble with their careers to believe that the Knix yute and management can come through.

Looks to me like the Nets could have as much cap space as NYK (actually looks like $2M more) by simply stretching Crabbe after he opts in to $18M.  Or see if anyone under the cap takes his ending $18M deal if they attach a 1st rounder.  Two ways to get rid of Crabbe and Nets could sign 2 max FA's.  They wouldn't have Tangelo signed, but with Dimwiddie and Lavert, they could get along without him.

Nets have a better baseline of talent, a better coach, a more superstar ready team.
Kyrie - Dimwiddie
Lavert -Joe Harris
RHJ - Kurucs
Durant - Ed Davis
Jarrett Allen

That's pretty damn good.
Not sure if they could re-sign both RHJ.  Maybe bring back DMC at $5M.  Ed Davis round the same.  Do-able especially if you can clear all of Crabbe off the books.
Title: Re: Doomsday Scenarios
Post by: Kam on February 04, 2019, 12:08:21 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 04, 2019, 03:06:27 AM
Quote from: Kam on February 04, 2019, 02:45:05 AM
If we don't land a Top 3 pick and strike out on the Upper Level FAs...

Re-sign DeAndre Jordan
Re-sign Noah Vonleh
Kevin Knox
Frank Ntilikina
Dennis Smith Jr.

Trier
Mudiay
Dotson
Kornet
Robinson

The first rounder
The second rounder

One, that's an awful team.  Maybe another sub-20W season. 


Right.  Hence the subject: Doomsday Scenario.  You expected what... 60 wins?

Quote
  Knix likely would need to sign one or two vets to high-priced one year deals.  Like DeAndretheGiant for 1/$20M or whatever. 

OK you didn't read my post.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 04, 2019, 12:14:11 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 04, 2019, 08:50:28 AM
Why are you asking all those questions?  Its all over the news.  KP requested the meeting and the trade

Then, Mills...

"We don't want anyone here that doesn't want to be here"

Of course ideas were already in the works, because that is their job.

And among a reported 8 scenarios, Dallas was best.

Why are we hearing Mills and not Perry?

The main thing that the FO could have done better was wait until the deadline.

But its weird we are hearing Mills' voice.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 04, 2019, 12:18:11 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 04, 2019, 10:01:40 AM
Why would Durant come to NYK?
To play with Knox and Smith Jr and Franc?

Durant would be a terrific fit for BKY!

Do you have any sense of the oceans of magnitude difference in gravitas between the franchises?

Why would Durant come to NYK?

Maybe you are Janis Porzingis???
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on February 04, 2019, 01:20:22 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 04, 2019, 10:01:40 AM
Why would Durant come to NYK?
To play with Knox and Smith Jr and Franc?

Durant would be a terrific fit for BKY!

Winning the title for the Knicks would make you an icon and NYC hero for life. Our fans are desperate for this. Melo tried, and is partially given respect despite his downsides because he WANTED to be a Knick, and win here.

Think Messier to the Rangers. No one remembers that he won multiple Stanley Cups for Edmonton, as Gretzky was given the credit, but he's an icon for just the 1994 season.

Nets have no where near the fan base or history in NYC as they are still second fiddle. I live and work in BK with live long folks and talk is always more about the Knicks. In fact, I rarely hear anyone talk about the Nets, even as they have improved a lot this year.

KD + Kyrie both won titles as clear second fiddles to their teams, Lebron and Curry are the faces where as both could be seen as winning it together and remembered together as the two that did it.

Not saying the Nets are an unattractive destination but it's just not the same.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on February 04, 2019, 01:34:53 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on February 04, 2019, 11:10:30 AM
Obviously Durant would be amazing, but the key is Kyrie.

- if Kyrie comes Boston is pretty much out of the running for Anthony Davis (AD is far less likely to resign if Kyrie isn't there, and that means Boston's offer is going to be less rich given the risk it's only a rental). I like the Knicks odds of outbidding the Lakers much more than I do their odds of outbidding the Celtics with Kyrie

- it damages the most promising team in the East, with all due respect to the good looking teams in Philly, Milwaukee and Toronto

- Durant is obviously more likely to come if Kyrie comes

- it frees us up to trade DSJ for another piece. DSJ has loads of potential, but he isn't ready for a super team. He's all tools and no hoops IQ right now; he'd actually be a bad fit on a team with Durant. Mudiay is better, but not much, but maybe Mudiay settles for the room exception after all our cap is spent. Anyhow, trade DSJ for a similarly rated defensive minded wing or a big that can soak up minutes at the 5, depending on the situation.

Durant is the better player. But Kyrie is the key piece.

Absolutely, biz.

When I heard the Lakers wanted to trade for AD I was dubious about what they have right now to offer. Some of their young players are not showing enough to be worth it to NO. We also have some intriguing prospects, even as bad as we are, IsoZo, Mitch, DJS, Frank (still, I guess) but of course our pick this year + extra future picks.

One issue is if we get the #1 pick, I believe I posted this, we would need to renounce Trier. We could then use the room exception on him, who I gather we'd rather keep than Mudiay. Yet, if we trade Frank that could solve that problem instead.

Kyrie has to sign with us for AD to have a chance of coming.

Pearlman, who's known for his draft scouting, also noted that the gap between Zion and the rest has gotten even wider.  He also feels that the 2nd tier of talent (which he no longer included Moran, btw, after his recent showings), picks 2 & 3, is only as good as the 3rd tier of talent last year. Of course, things change and some players grow or regress, but right now it seems whoever wins the lotto this year is practically a PowerBall winner in terms of how big it seems.

One thing about Moran is if we are keeping DJS, would wonder if we'd draft a PG, yet we also know as raised by him is that you shouldn't draft based on need, unless it's not quite clear who's the better prospect.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 04, 2019, 02:25:19 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 04, 2019, 10:01:40 AM
Why would Durant come to NYK?
To play with Knox and Smith Jr and Franc?

Durant would be a terrific fit for BKY!

If he is picking the coach, I agree.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 04, 2019, 02:37:40 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on February 04, 2019, 11:10:30 AM
Obviously Durant would be amazing, but the key is Kyrie.

- if Kyrie comes Boston is pretty much out of the running for Anthony Davis (AD is far less likely to resign if Kyrie isn't there, and that means Boston's offer is going to be less rich given the risk it's only a rental). I like the Knicks odds of outbidding the Lakers much more than I do their odds of outbidding the Celtics with Kyrie

- it damages the most promising team in the East, with all due respect to the good looking teams in Philly, Milwaukee and Toronto

- Durant is obviously more likely to come if Kyrie comes

- it frees us up to trade DSJ for another piece. DSJ has loads of potential, but he isn't ready for a super team. He's all tools and no hoops IQ right now; he'd actually be a bad fit on a team with Durant. Mudiay is better, but not much, but maybe Mudiay settles for the room exception after all our cap is spent. Anyhow, trade DSJ for a similarly rated defensive minded wing or a big that can soak up minutes at the 5, depending on the situation.

Durant is the better player. But Kyrie is the key piece.

I think Kyrie may be the best player this side of LeBron

That said - I dont look to bring him in just yet.  My focus is on D Smith at the point.

Now...... if Durant and Kyrie truly WERE a package, of course you go that way and move on from Smith.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 04, 2019, 02:50:46 PM
Prez - Davis isnt free til next year.  Knicks will likely spend their cash - there wont be money remaining for Davis in summer 2020.

We can VIA TRADE absorb him into our cap by dealing for him after July 1 this year.  But what do we have to offer?  Are you giving up the Zion ticket?  Or do you see Pelicans taking 2/3 of the other 6 number 1s plus a player or 2?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 04, 2019, 03:22:06 PM
NEW ON DAVIS/LAKERS

Magic met with Demps today.  Lakers are willing to give multiple young players, multiple picks and also additional cap relief
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 04, 2019, 03:25:22 PM
And.......this just in, maybe an attempt at levereage:

THE NY KNICKS are now one of 4 teams that Anthony Davis says he WILL re-sign with if dealt there - along with LAL, LAC  and MIL.

Interesting.

Knox.............our 2019 #1................Jordan...............ADD.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 04, 2019, 03:28:37 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 04, 2019, 03:25:22 PM
And.......this just in, maybe an attempt at levereage:

THE NY KNICKS are now one of 4 teams that Anthony Davis says he WILL re-sign with if dealt there - along with LAL, LAC  and MIL.

Interesting.

Knox.............our 2019 #1................Jordan...............ADD.

I'd back up the truck for AD.  AD in NYC with room for 2 more Max FAs???

(https://media.tenor.com/images/fa9281eeb4b5761f3b0f6877fb8b4444/tenor.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 04, 2019, 03:37:06 PM
Allan Houston
Amare Stoudamire


Knicks didn't want to risk Max $ on a ? again
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 04, 2019, 03:37:19 PM
1 more, Kam. AD counts as ONE.

Pelicans want a PG.  Maybe we include Smith in the offer.  They already nixed Frank in the Porzingis deal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 04, 2019, 03:38:17 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 04, 2019, 03:37:19 PM
1 more

Allan Houston
Antonio McDyess
Amare Stoudamire
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 04, 2019, 04:01:12 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on February 03, 2019, 08:15:47 PM
We are proudly, the IFC...IGNANT FANS CLUB of NYC!

So that makes the trade supporters the BRAVO channel?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 04, 2019, 04:10:27 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 04, 2019, 03:37:19 PM
1 more, Kam. AD counts as ONE.

Pelicans want a PG.  Maybe we include Smith in the offer.  They already nixed Frank in the Porzingis deal.

If we trade for AD with guys like Knox and DSJ we just need to include a little filler like Lance and Trier to make the salaries close enough to match.  Throw in Mario too.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 04, 2019, 04:13:46 PM
Part of the "Some teams didn't get to make an offer for Porzingis" stuff is overblown.

I'm sure teams like the Celtics or Philly or even Brooklyn wanted to make an offer and i'm sure the Knicks had no intention of dealing him those places.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 04, 2019, 04:19:20 PM
KP said he wasn't happy with how the Knicks planned to handle his return from injury. 


We all would guess the Knicks plan was to have KP come back the last 10-12 games of the year and show he is healthy.


Now we hear KP is shut down til next year.


So obviously KP (or his brother) didn't want to play at all this year.

Once again   Fuck You KP and Janis.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on February 04, 2019, 05:57:17 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 04, 2019, 04:13:46 PM
Part of the "Some teams didn't get to make an offer for Porzingis" stuff is overblown.

I'm sure teams like the Celtics or Philly or even Brooklyn wanted to make an offer and i'm sure the Knicks had no intention of dealing him those places.

Interesting point made here on what the Knicks actually could have gotten for KP aka it was limited and these ideas thrown out can't make sense given what the Knicks would have wanted in return:

https://twitter.com/KnickFilmSchool/status/1092545273635717121

https://twitter.com/shwinnypooh/status/1092545923874541568

Basically saying that only
Title: IFK of Kam(s)ter
Post by: carlos123 on February 04, 2019, 05:59:44 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 04, 2019, 04:01:12 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on February 03, 2019, 08:15:47 PM
We are proudly, the IFC...IGNANT FANS CLUB of NYC!

So that makes the trade supporters the BRAVO channel?

No, not necessarily. Here's the other Klub:

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/c5raNOFxNN2D5H4uM1sKd5mVXGCulF9zFQwqKldGrAZ9rURqUCbUekKR6ULPOoGTrWAvdSC_sPlfv676n5LLYoEl4rXTon3Ew40TsBH_Jly5cvEE2kM-HC6YzhfXU-M_23laXKhKL4VdDOTZteQlvOKUC-HjLdazYey3nhGnqCTPAqhPgf1h92cybog6U6H2hSKKSPHYWfeGhRa8LftTDtzZ3rbib7g3CnQsBA-mkqyNhlE9ti7URVp8plawDB_mBPVAg0IHOdEc4rRjT4fjXh4APckye81QcunSxNPgzg_kyLhPkgbDxtIDE9fELNZpQgDR36pRbpuR2QE_cYk6X7eqBjHBNuWAjT0k0sAQv0Lh93-Fczpy4bbn4Wf_1VKpFXhNChrGfXxCOIzE-Iyvd7cpHynsHybcno-m8mdBcT5VBg7ZqWTyoBWAd_RPcvqDSju5Af6VWngOpaUKsBv2d7PZLYYtrPOASQdPjughgYRjG6i-HHUs6VG56KbducM1dQE-je7UJ57U263M_jToJFAMzK_OadnUKDutQJTFhjvbARuuOGBWTOkocJKK6WqnfPfKQaZFrKrCjIWShadXs8NEyTFZV0XsfJ3Zk1VqcVuZBDtPbFCf_WA4w_9LLx7mkhy-uFxoWak0eQqDqUri_FgFWzm-fz8=w542-h518-no)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on February 04, 2019, 06:02:33 PM
Wow...how about this:

https://twitter.com/shwinnypooh/status/1092519499780292609

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on February 04, 2019, 06:05:53 PM
https://twitter.com/JCMacriNBA/status/1092471895805644800

Kanter post of the day. Going out to all you lovers out there...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 04, 2019, 07:12:22 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on February 04, 2019, 06:05:53 PM
https://twitter.com/JCMacriNBA/status/1092471895805644800

Kanter post of the day. Going out to all you lovers out there...

So basically 89% of Knick fans on twitter want Enes to have played his last game as a Knick and 11% want him to remain.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 04, 2019, 07:27:00 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 04, 2019, 07:12:22 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on February 04, 2019, 06:05:53 PM
https://twitter.com/JCMacriNBA/status/1092471895805644800

Kanter post of the day. Going out to all you lovers out there...

So basically 89% of Knick fans on twitter want Enes to have played his last game as a Knick and 11% want him to remain.

So basically in addition to having 0% understanding of basketball, you have 0% understanding of social media.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 04, 2019, 07:28:12 PM
Here, let me have a go at experiencing what it's like to be Kam or PrIke.

(https://tectuma.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/maxresdefault-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 04, 2019, 07:28:53 PM
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-pi043pqkg24/Tv_4K-TXRQI/AAAAAAAASwA/ZYBr3vm5BU0/s640/dead-horse.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 04, 2019, 07:29:49 PM
(https://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/1/590x/secondary/129031.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 04, 2019, 07:31:21 PM
(https://images.wagwalkingweb.com/media/articles/horse/immune-deficiency-diseases-1/immune-deficiency-diseases-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 04, 2019, 07:31:58 PM
(http://www.horsetalk.co.nz/features/pics/hm1.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 04, 2019, 07:32:32 PM
(http://weekinweird.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/snippy_mutilata_cavalla_mutilazione.jpeg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 04, 2019, 07:34:04 PM
(https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/missoulian.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/3/1e/31eb4608-3519-56ee-9798-28a9c0302652/547f322127370.image.jpg?resize=400%2C300)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 04, 2019, 07:34:45 PM
(https://savetheworldshorses.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/wild-horse-foal-shot-002.jpg?w=450)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 04, 2019, 07:36:00 PM
(https://publiceyemaritzburg.co.za/wp-content/uploads/sites/53/2015/10/burnt-horse-small.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 04, 2019, 07:36:33 PM
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3165/2856591295_ec4792dd4c_o.jpg)
Title: Kam(s)ter and his dead horse
Post by: carlos123 on February 04, 2019, 07:36:57 PM
(https://i.redd.it/23pwc3yme6a11.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 04, 2019, 07:37:46 PM
oops, sorry. have to run so no time to post the next 23 in the series....
Title: Dead horses
Post by: carlos123 on February 04, 2019, 07:43:26 PM
Dear Kam(s)ter and Prez and all other people who beat dead horses,

Please. Stop.

It’s inhumane!

Now, far be it from me to defend horses. I think they’re total jerks and probably deserve to be beaten to death, but no creature deserves to be beaten after death.

That horse is clearly not moving so why do you insist on continuing to take a bat after it?

(https://cdn.ricochet.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/beating-a-dead-horse-gif-11.gif)

I don’t understand your passion in sending the horse to the afterlife without a bone left intact. It’s just not right. Please stop trying to re-kill it, it’s already dead! You’re like a vulture, but instead of eating the corpse, you just keep beating it with a bat. Do you enjoy the squishing noises that spring up from every thwack? Are you trying to kill the flies that keep landing on it? What is going on in your head?!

This horse is no more! It is an ex-horse!

Please, I’m begging you, just step away from the ex-horse.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on February 04, 2019, 08:00:19 PM
Facts? Sound reasoning? Reasonable discussion?

Meet Lester and Carlos' fists of cognitive dissonance flavored fury.

"Can't we all just get along?"

misterearl: ***sfx crickets***

Peace.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 04, 2019, 08:05:06 PM
Hey Carl,

How's the new OS123 treatin ya?

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 04, 2019, 08:06:31 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 04, 2019, 08:05:06 PM
Hey Carl,

How's the new OS123 treatin ya?


Apparently the Molester Virus has infected you!
Title: IFC of NYC
Post by: carlos123 on February 04, 2019, 08:09:58 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on February 04, 2019, 08:00:19 PM
Facts? Sound reasoning? Reasonable discussion?

Meet Lester and Carlos' fists of cognitive dissonance flavored fury.

"Can't we all just get along?"

misterearl: ***sfx crickets***

Peace.

Remember Les and I are members of the IGNORANT FAN CLUB, as defined by you.

OTOH, no fury here, just having fun with our ignorance and the dead-horse beaters wisdom.
Title: Look who’s talking
Post by: carlos123 on February 04, 2019, 08:13:15 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 04, 2019, 08:06:31 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 04, 2019, 08:05:06 PM
Hey Carl,

How's the new OS123 treatin ya?


Apparently the Molester Virus has infected you!

Maybe the flies from your dead horse are clouding your vision, but it’s kinda funny when you quote yourself. 😂
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 04, 2019, 08:13:28 PM
Bravo channel!  IFC sucks!
Title: Re: Look who’s talking
Post by: Kam on February 04, 2019, 08:14:13 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 04, 2019, 08:13:15 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 04, 2019, 08:06:31 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 04, 2019, 08:05:06 PM
Hey Carl,

How's the new OS123 treatin ya?


Apparently the Molester Virus has infected you!

Maybe the flies from your dead horse are clouding your vision, but it’s kinda funny when you quote yourself.

Carl!  Lester's Trojan Horse has infected your OS! 
Title: Two - Timin Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 04, 2019, 08:15:17 PM
Marcus Camby
Kurt Thomas
Mark Jackson
Tim Hardaway Jr

I bet this isn't the last we've seen of Tim
Title: Re: Look who’s talking
Post by: carlos123 on February 04, 2019, 08:18:26 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 04, 2019, 08:14:13 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 04, 2019, 08:13:15 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 04, 2019, 08:06:31 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 04, 2019, 08:05:06 PM
Hey Carl,

How's the new OS123 treatin ya?


Apparently the Molester Virus has infected you!

Maybe the flies from your dead horse are clouding your vision, but it’s kinda funny when you quote yourself.

Carl!  Lester's Trojan Horse has infected your OS!

Is the Trojan Horse dead? I mean, so you could go and beat him 😀😅😂🤣
Title: Kevin Durant
Post by: Kam on February 04, 2019, 08:21:01 PM
If KD doesn't come here .... whoa boy.   Fans are gonna riot.
EVERYONE is saying KD is coming.  What if he and Boogie come?
Dare to dream.


Last week we had KP as a piss-poor recruiter trying to get a MAX guy on a Mid-Range budget.
This week we have a team with no stars to worry about fitting-into.... the Summer Pickups will Captain the team.
That is a desirable situation.  No other big egos. The team is yours the locker room is yours, the city is yours.

The Top guys will choose the Mecca over Barclays.
The question is will they choose West Coast or Eastern Conf?

Title: Re: Look who’s talking
Post by: Kam on February 04, 2019, 08:21:56 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 04, 2019, 08:18:26 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 04, 2019, 08:14:13 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 04, 2019, 08:13:15 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 04, 2019, 08:06:31 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 04, 2019, 08:05:06 PM
Hey Carl,

How's the new OS123 treatin ya?


Apparently the Molester Virus has infected you!

Maybe the flies from your dead horse are clouding your vision, but it’s kinda funny when you quote yourself.

Carl!  Lester's Trojan Horse has infected your OS!

Is the Trojan Horse dead? I mean, so you could go and beat him 😀😅😂🤣

If one of my post triggers 14 of yours who is really beating dead meat?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 04, 2019, 08:35:41 PM


Blast from the past

Kukoc to Pippen

https://twitter.com/rex_rexchapman/status/1092477408547127302 (https://twitter.com/rex_rexchapman/status/1092477408547127302)
Title: Re: Look who’s COUNTING
Post by: carlos123 on February 04, 2019, 09:12:35 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 04, 2019, 08:21:56 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 04, 2019, 08:18:26 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 04, 2019, 08:14:13 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 04, 2019, 08:13:15 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 04, 2019, 08:06:31 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 04, 2019, 08:05:06 PM
Hey Carl,

How's the new OS123 treatin ya?


Apparently the Molester Virus has infected you!

Maybe the flies from your dead horse are clouding your vision, but it’s kinda funny when you quote yourself.

Carl!  Lester's Trojan Horse has infected your OS!

Is the Trojan Horse dead? I mean, so you could go and beat him 😀😅😂🤣

If one of my post triggers 14 of yours who is really beating dead meat?

Looks like your math is failing you.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 04, 2019, 11:37:07 PM
We might be able to trade Wes.  Maybe package our #2 and move up?
Title: 4 first round picks for AD?
Post by: Kam on February 05, 2019, 01:44:14 AM
Pelicans asking the Lakers for 4 firsts.

We can and should match that.

DeAndre and 4 first round picks. 

or

Lance/Mario/Mudiay and 4 firsts
Title: Re: 4 first round picks for AD?
Post by: Kam on February 05, 2019, 01:58:18 AM
Mudiay + Dotson and filler
(Kanter Lance Mario)
 and 4 firsts

For AD and Solomon Hill

AD and KD. 
DSJ, Knox, Trier, Mitch, Frank. 
Vonleh. Hill. Kornet.

New Orleans gets cap space and picks and a couple of young players to tank with next season.
Title: Lotto Spot Clinched already?
Post by: Kam on February 05, 2019, 02:52:36 AM
Atlanta was won 2 straight.  They are the 4th worst team in the NBA. They have 18 wins.  We have 10.

Are we really going to win 8 more games with Atlanta losing every game the rest of the way?

There's no way we are n ot one of the bottom three teams with 14% odds at 1.

52% odds Top 4.

48% odds its the 5th pick.

3 teams have a 48% chance at the 5th pick somehow....

Any team really could win the lottery so using it as a trade chip seems like a smart idea if you can get Top #1 protection


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 05, 2019, 05:07:37 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 04, 2019, 03:37:19 PM
1 more, Kam. AD counts as ONE.

Pelicans want a PG.  Maybe we include Smith in the offer.  They already nixed Frank in the Porzingis deal.

Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 04, 2019, 03:25:22 PM
And.......this just in, maybe an attempt at levereage:

THE NY KNICKS are now one of 4 teams that Anthony Davis says he WILL re-sign with if dealt there - along with LAL, LAC  and MIL.

Interesting.

Knox.............our 2019 #1................Jordan...............ADD.

Just to be clear, none of the guys acquired from the Mavs can be packaged in a deal for AD before the trade deadline. So Jordan won't be a part of the deal.

And for Davis to come to NY and join two max guys, it depends on who the max guys are, but if it is indeed Durant/Kyrie and they both take the full max, the Knicks will have to trade everyone of their 2019 draft pick, Knox, Ntilikina, and DSJ (and Lance) to make the math work. Unclear as of yet if Dotson or Mitch would have to be included, depends on where the cap actually lands. Mudiay would be renounced.

Would also take multiple future draft picks. And a willingness on the part of the Pels to not insist on the inclusion of Solomon Hill.

(Yes, I would do that trade. You'd still have your room exception and
Title: Re: 4 first round picks for AD?
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 05, 2019, 05:15:30 AM
Quote from: Kam on February 05, 2019, 01:44:14 AM
Pelicans asking the Lakers for 4 firsts.

We can and should match that.

DeAndre and 4 first round picks. 

or

Lance/Mario/Mudiay and 4 firsts

Make it five first rounders (three Knicks, both of the Mavs picks). Throw in second rounders. But, really, we're not getting AD without giving up at least two of Knox/DSJ/Ntilikina in addition to our pick
Title: Re: 4 first round picks for AD?
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 05, 2019, 05:16:22 AM
Quote from: Kam on February 05, 2019, 01:58:18 AM
Mudiay + Dotson and filler
(Kanter Lance Mario)
 and 4 firsts

For AD and Solomon Hill

AD and KD. 
DSJ, Knox, Trier, Mitch, Frank. 
Vonleh. Hill. Kornet.

New Orleans gets cap space and picks and a couple of young players to tank with next season.

Lakers offer is better. You're dreaming if Knox and Frank are being held out.
Title: Don't tell Bankshot or Kiid!
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 05, 2019, 05:17:31 AM
(whispers: If the Lakers had drafted Tatum instead of Lonzo Ball, AD would already be a Laker)

(I mean, the Lakers may end up getting him anyway. But if they don't, it's because they bought into the Lonzo hype)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 05, 2019, 05:25:16 AM
Quote from: Kam on February 04, 2019, 11:37:07 PM
We might be able to trade Wes.  Maybe package our #2 and move up?

A few trade thoughts (all of which fit under the rules)....I tried to trade Wes to Brooklyn to get our own second rounder back this year, even if we included the Houston pick, but couldn't figure out a way.


Wessy Wes for Z-Bo and Ben McLemore and and the Orlando second rounder this year (we can try to package that with our Houston first rounder and cash to get into the first round if we really want at the draft)


Wes to Bulls for Jabari Parker (Bulls save a tiny bit of money, Knicks get a look at Jabari since Wes obviously wants a buyout)


Wes, Nance to Raptors
Norm Powell, CJ Miles, two future Knicks second rounders to Cleveland
Alec Burks, Cam Payne, Malachi Richardson, lotto protected 2021 Raps first rounder to Knicks


DeAndre, Justin Jackson to Wizards (who get out of the luxury tax and save more than $15 million with this trade)
Otto, Jeff Green, Dwight Howard, future Wizards second rounder, future Knicks second rounder to Kings
Z-Bo, Koufos, 2021 lotto protected Kings 1st rounder to Knicks


(Ok, so the last two are wishful thinking...but not impossible)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 05, 2019, 07:53:36 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 04, 2019, 11:58:55 AM
Looks to me like the Nets could have as much cap space as NYK (actually looks like $2M more) by simply stretching Crabbe after he opts in to $18M. 

I believe stretching Crabbe will leave the Nets with quite a bit less the Knicks, depending on a various factors (IsoZo, where people draft). They wouldn't have enough for two 7-9 max slots even if they stretched Crabbe, let alone what the Knicks have (enough for one 7-9 max, one 10+ max, and MLE-ish money left over for another starter). That presumes they renounce everyone, including RHJ (not sure they could get him for the room exception, there's going to be a lot of money swishing around this summer)

And if they want to retain D'Angelo's Bird rights, they might not even have enough for a 10+ max unless they stretch Crabbe.

I wouldn't overstate their ability to overtake the Knicks in free agency, including for the reasons Kam has stated.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 05, 2019, 08:29:49 AM
How is anything the Knicks can give better than Kyle Kuzma, let alone adding an Ingram and/or a Lonzo Ball?

I will say though that LA wants this done now - as opposed to NO being willing to wait til summer - since LA fears

a)  Knicks can come up with something NO might accept

or

b)  Davis decides he WOULD in fact sign an extension in Boston
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 05, 2019, 09:27:35 AM
I think Knox might be valued higher than you're implying. And I think RJ Barrett - let alone, obviously, Zion - would be valued more than the lot of them.

Lavar Ball might already be hurting Lonzo's value to New Orleans by running his mouth. It's possible Ms Benson wants nothing to do with that noise; these are NFL people who run the Pelicans, they don't have much time for this kind of individuality.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 05, 2019, 09:41:55 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on February 05, 2019, 05:07:37 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 04, 2019, 03:37:19 PM
1 more, Kam. AD counts as ONE.

Pelicans want a PG.  Maybe we include Smith in the offer.  They already nixed Frank in the Porzingis deal.

Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 04, 2019, 03:25:22 PM
And.......this just in, maybe an attempt at levereage:

THE NY KNICKS are now one of 4 teams that Anthony Davis says he WILL re-sign with if dealt there - along with LAL, LAC  and MIL.

Interesting.

Knox.............our 2019 #1................Jordan...............ADD.

Just to be clear, none of the guys acquired from the Mavs can be packaged in a deal for AD before the trade deadline. So Jordan won't be a part of the deal.



Got it, thanks

DAndre could be dealt but just by himself, right?

I would love to just keep him around, see what he looks like for 30 games.  Give him what Kanter deserved - a chance to keep his FA value high.

Kanter meanwhile will be bought out, no doubt
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on February 05, 2019, 10:17:46 AM
They are doing what they always do, Use the name of Knicks to get the deal to LA done.  We are not interested,  AD is always hurt, true he is a great player but I'd wait to see if we get Zion.  Knox is getting better, Trier is getting better, Mudiay getting better, Now we got DSJ.  We slowly building a team.  Everybody needs to stop being so impatient and let the Pups grow.  we may have a decent team before it's all said and done. We should not gut the team for another so called star.  LET THE PUPS GROW.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 05, 2019, 10:21:23 AM
Ainge desparately implores Demps to hold off dealing Davis

https://www.lakersnation.com/nba-trade-rumors-danny-ainge-imploring-pelicans-keep-anthony-davis-past-feb-7-deadline-with-promise-celtics-will-make-aggressive-offer/2019/02/04/ (https://www.lakersnation.com/nba-trade-rumors-danny-ainge-imploring-pelicans-keep-anthony-davis-past-feb-7-deadline-with-promise-celtics-will-make-aggressive-offer/2019/02/04/)

Danny knows his team is short and the Davis deal also may be his only hope to keep Irving.

Maybe our Celtic friends can chime in on what they see a Boston offer might look like this summer.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on February 05, 2019, 10:34:46 AM
Quote from: jaqdavisone on February 05, 2019, 10:17:46 AM
They are doing what they always do, Use the name of Knicks to get the deal to LA done.  We are not interested,  AD is always hurt, true he is a great player but I'd wait to see if we get Zion.  Knox is getting better, Trier is getting better, Mudiay getting better, Now we got DSJ.  We slowly building a team.  Everybody needs to stop being so impatient and let the Pups grow.  we may have a decent team before it's all said and done. We should not gut the team for another so called star.  LET THE PUPS GROW.

YEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

Good to read someone who don’t wanna throw out all the fin’ babies with the bath water.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 05, 2019, 10:41:16 AM
Likely Jaq is correct - as I believe the Knicks offer to Pelicans that included Porzingis did NOT also include the 2019 (possibly #1 overall) draft pick.

Perry and Mills seem content to see if that haul comes in - so dont expect the 2019 pick offered anywhere.

Will there be offers for it?  I'd bet YES.  We are in a good spot.  Might even win 30 games next year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 05, 2019, 10:45:28 AM
Was watching Nets lose to MIL.
In garbage time Nets had a team of Whozits out there.
I'm already used to relative unknowns Kurucs and Aussie Mitch Creek and Theo Pinson.  But Dzanan Musa and Alan Williams (undrafted guy who played parts of 3 years with PHX).

Pinson a hustle guy with a suspect shot.
Kurucs looks pretty good on both ends.  But Bucks were taking it at him for profit, despite Kurucs being in good position.  Had 5 fouls.

Creek plays bigger than his listed 6'5".  Had 8 / 5 /4 in a nice game v. MIL.  Aside from getting blocked twice by Anti-Greek.

Musa was a 1st rounder (#29 pick).  Listed as a 6'9" SG.  Didn't get to see what he could do in 8 minutes (his season high).  Missed a trio of triples.

Nets sure have a lot of undrafted guys.  Trev Graham started (30%FG for the year).

DMC was awful.  Was trying but looked like he was running in mud.  Tangelo with one of those distracted looking games.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 05, 2019, 10:46:06 AM
Uh, KZ was one of the pups.
And our most promising path of developing form within . . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 05, 2019, 10:53:56 AM
As for a BOS offer for AD.
You have to figure it'd involve Tatum and Rozier.
Tatum a prized young up-and-comer.
NOPe needs a PG next to JRue.

Then to make the numbers work, you either have to add in Smart, or BOS takes on Sol Hill and NOPe takes Hayward's enormous contract.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: NeedsAdjustments on February 05, 2019, 11:33:15 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 05, 2019, 10:34:46 AM
Quote from: jaqdavisone on February 05, 2019, 10:17:46 AM
They are doing what they always do, Use the name of Knicks to get the deal to LA done.  We are not interested,  AD is always hurt, true he is a great player but I'd wait to see if we get Zion.  Knox is getting better, Trier is getting better, Mudiay getting better, Now we got DSJ.  We slowly building a team.  Everybody needs to stop being so impatient and let the Pups grow.  we may have a decent team before it's all said and done. We should not gut the team for another so called star.  LET THE PUPS GROW.

YEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

Good to read someone who don’t wanna throw out all the fin’ babies with the bath water.

No, better to throw the babies out for bath water.
Title: Question for Bankshot
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 05, 2019, 12:17:35 PM
Can the Boston faithful forgive Kyrie? Will it all be water under the bridge if he re-signs? How's he going to be viewed in the meantime?

Bill Simmons had some nasty heat-of-the-moment tweets.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on February 05, 2019, 12:29:48 PM
Listening to Open Floor pod with some comments regarding the Knicks:

https://twitter.com/TheCrossover/status/1092815147733843969

Quote
Andrew Sharp: [sounding exasperated] The idea that they're just gonna stockpile draft picks and then slowly build a title contender that way.

Ben Golliver: [laughing in background] What you are trying to say is Frank Ntilikina is not going to bring you a ring.

Andrew Sharp: [laughing] Exactly!

Ben Golliver: Kevin Knox and Frankie are not gonna get you a championship

Andrew Sharp: [laughing] And neither is Porzingis! The reality is if you go down the list of teams that have won titles in the last 30 years its very rare that you win it with home grown players....If it's not a #1 pick or HOFer it's rare that you can build a title team around [them]. If you draft Tim Duncan, one of the 10 best players of all time yes, you can 5 titles with your home grown draft picks. Had you just had Manu and Toney Parker you're not winning a title with those guys. Same deal with the Warriors.

Ben Golliver: I think your real point here is that Porzingis is not Tim Duncan...

Andrew Sharp: My point with the draft picks conversation is I saw a lot of people chiding the Knicks for not building "the right way" when I actually think there are a handful of teams around the NBA who actually can  if they take care of the foundation, hire a good coach and clear cap space can go sign superstars and that gives a much better chance of winning a title than just betting the next 8 years on draft picks. The Knicks are one of them.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: NeedsAdjustments on February 05, 2019, 12:58:27 PM
Don't know who those people are, but they don't seem so well informed.

Homegrown warriors- Green, Curry, Thompson.  They mention the Spurs.  James left Cleveland, they didn't trade him.  And obviously would have won more than once had they kept him.  There is no big three in Miami if the Heat had traded Wade.  Lakers; Bryant.  Dallas; Dirk.

Its a stupid argument.

Better argument is the one I made when the trade first happened.  What team found success by trading their 23 year old franchise player for cap space?

...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 05, 2019, 01:17:56 PM
Yeah, kind of dumb. As you point out, homegrown actually has been key & in fact the past is littered with cap space clearing that's come to naught. And absolutely nobody would expect Franc + Kevin to bring a title. Nor Porzingis to be Duncan. Who is? He can be Klay. What's the point?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: NeedsAdjustments on February 05, 2019, 01:28:38 PM
Past is a clear guide.  Winners build, at least partially, via the draft.  And you don't build a super-team starting with a roster no super-star would want to play with.

Who knows, maybe in the end the Knicks might luck into something.  Or maybe Durant really has promised to come here.  But pretty amazing to hear someone try to justify the trade with an argument about history.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 05, 2019, 02:23:45 PM
Anyway. Today, let's just be glad we are not the Wizards. Jeez....

https://nypost.com/2019/02/05/john-wall-will-miss-12-months-after-slip-and-fall-at-home/ (https://nypost.com/2019/02/05/john-wall-will-miss-12-months-after-slip-and-fall-at-home/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on February 05, 2019, 02:30:37 PM
Quote from: NeedsAdjustments on February 05, 2019, 12:58:27 PM
Don't know who those people are, but they don't seem so well informed.

Homegrown warriors- Green, Curry, Thompson.  They mention the Spurs.  James left Cleveland, they didn't trade him.  And obviously would have won more than once had they kept him.  There is no big three in Miami if the Heat had traded Wade.  Lakers; Bryant.  Dallas; Dirk.

Its a stupid argument.

Better argument is the one I made when the trade first happened.  What team found success by trading their 23 year old franchise player for cap space?

...

So, I edited out part of what they said about GS as they refer to your point, meaning the HG players outside of Curry, who is of course one of the best players in the world. The real point is that they don't see KP as the same caliber as those two at this point, someone to just surround with all of the young players the Knicks currently have. That they all have a good chance to become on the level of Green, Clay, etc. for the Knicks. You do, it seems, or correct me if I am wrong.

Would you argue for this idea (KP + draft picks developing = title contender) even if the Knicks don't get the #1 pick this year?

I think that's hard but if the Knicks get the #1 pick, that COULD work, but according to your logic and the problem they raise, is would we really say the probability of the Knicks getting Zion is better (we know the odds) is greater than using cap space to sign 2 big FA's this summer?

I don't think so, nor do they.

We shall see. No?

Also, their point was outside of Curry btw, their HG talent, Clay & Green, on their own would not make them a title contender. That's what they are talking about and the idea of using HG talent as the PRIMARY way to create a title contending team with KP is what they are worried about compared to big FA's this summer + more flexibility with the picks + DSJ, and bad contracts gone.

The other teams you are referring to, mostly, did not primarily use their picks to build the rest of the team at all. You listed one star player, but we are talking about 1 drafted star + the other draft players. That's what the discussion is about, and also this is key as the '20 FA market is not good at all, so you have to wait 2 summers, or make trades with assets/picks (one option that is better after the KP trade).

Here's one thing they said that may refer to your sentiments:

Sharp: My thoughts on that trade last week come down to my read on Porzingis. If you're a Knicks fan who just loved Porzingis and didn't want to see them trade him, then I totally see why you wouldn't like the trade. If you're a Knicks fan who thought Porzingis was going to be the cornerstone of a title winning team, I think you're probably wrong, but that's another reason to not like it."

Everything else I posted by them earlier was referring how some have "chided the Knicks for not building the right way" and showing why that is not accurate because at least Sharp contends that what the Knicks are doing gives them a "much better chance at winning the title than betting the next 8 years on draft picks."

Does that make more sense?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on February 05, 2019, 02:58:56 PM
https://static.nytimes.com/email-content/MSB_10011.html

Quote
The Knicks spent much of January quietly canvassing the league for potential Porzingis trades, according to a person familiar with the talks who was not authorized to discuss them publicly. They tried for untouchables such as Utah’s Donovan Mitchell and Sacramento’s De’Aaron Fox and, predictably, were rebuffed.

But the Knicks knew all along that the Mavericks had the wherewithal to meet many of their trade objectives, and, just as crucially, that Dallas was generally unfazed by Porzingis’s injury history.

Quote
Perhaps you are a Smith skeptic. Or just a Knicks skeptic. Those are both understandable positions. But a trade that returns three quality assets in addition to creating the kind of salary-cap space this summer that the Knicks must have to chase Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving is no salary dump.

It’s a gamble, true, and one that could go numerous directions depending on how free agency and Porzingis’s career play out. But it is an undeniable haul.
Title: Re: 4 first round picks for AD?
Post by: Kam on February 05, 2019, 03:58:33 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on February 05, 2019, 05:15:30 AM

Make it five first rounders (three Knicks, both of the Mavs picks). Throw in second rounders. But, really, we're not getting AD without giving up at least two of Knox/DSJ/Ntilikina in addition to our pick

We would be also taking on Solomon Hill.

Knox
2019 #1
DSJ
IsoZo

PLUS Salary (Kanter Lance)

Plus 


HOW MANY #1s gets it done?
Title: No toad
Post by: Kam on February 05, 2019, 05:06:00 PM
I think we can make a trade for AD...

...but we wouldn't want to pay the Pelican's price.
Title: Re: 4 first round picks for AD?
Post by: FWK00 on February 05, 2019, 06:25:56 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 05, 2019, 03:58:33 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on February 05, 2019, 05:15:30 AM

Make it five first rounders (three Knicks, both of the Mavs picks). Throw in second rounders. But, really, we're not getting AD without giving up at least two of Knox/DSJ/Ntilikina in addition to our pick

We would be also taking on Solomon Hill.

Knox
2019 #1
DSJ
IsoZo

PLUS Salary (Kanter Lance)

Plus 


HOW MANY #1s gets it done?

Look, there's at least two chess games going on aside from the Lake show.  In the big picture, Boston is terrified of the rising Knicks' fortunes.  With AD, Boston would dominate the East at exactly the time our guys are mature enough to compete.  The Knicks would spend another decade getting out under the thumb of Boston.

So, those are the real stakes in the East.

Now,  I do think the Knicks have the goods to acquire AD - no, he wouldn't come inexpensively.  But I think that's why Frankie's name is still being bantered about as trade bait - strictly for an AD exchange.

IMO, The Knicks would be sending Knox, Frankie, Vonleh, Robinson, Kanter, Lance, and four future #1s (not 2019), and some cash to buyout Kanter for AD, Hill, and Payton (or a useful third player).

NO can tank all on their own this year and have a very nice foundation for two years out.
Title: Knicks Power Rankings
Post by: Kam on February 05, 2019, 08:22:29 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on November 30, 2018, 02:23:33 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 30, 2018, 10:46:29 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on November 30, 2018, 08:52:16 AM
Kam - we need an update on your Knicks player power rankings. Do you have your old copy for comparison?


As of October 30:

Hicks
Kornet
Mudiay
Baker
Lee
Hey,ZoneUp
Thomas
Kanter
Burke
Hardaway Jr.
Vonleh
Iso Zo
Dotson
Hardwood Mitch
Knox
Frank
KP

I figured you'd re-do them! Anyhow, here's my stab at it:

Hicks
Baker
Courtly
Kornet
Subpar
Thomas
Kanter
Burke
Dotson (biggest faller)
Mudiay (biggest riser)
Vonleh
Iso Zo
Hardaway Jr.
Knox
Franc
Hardwood Mitch
KP

Knox and Franc may not have fallen far in these rankings, but neither has impressed so far this season; I'm especially underwhelmed with Knox, whose game has been rather hard on the eyes. But I'm hopeful the front office will actually be patient with both of them, at least until this summer, and hopefully beyond.

2 months later... need new rankings! (previous rank)


15 Enes Kanter          (11)
14 Isiah Hicks            (17)
13 Mario Hezonja       (13)
12 Lance Thomas       (12)
11 Wes Matthews
10 Damyean Dotson    (9)
9. Luke Kornet            (14)
8. Emmanuel Mudiay  ( 8 )
7. DeAndre Jordan
6. Noah Vonleh          (7)
5. Frank Ntilikina       (3)
4. Alonzo Trier           (6)
3. Mitchell Robinson   (2)
2. Dennis Smith Jr.
1. Kevin Knox            (4)


Knox's December performance elevates him past the injured Robinson/Ntilikina tandem. 
Kornet jumps on the strength of his shot finally falling, along with Kanters intransigence and traded players vacant spots.
Title: All Star Participants - Slam Dunk
Post by: Kam on February 05, 2019, 08:45:39 PM
NYK Dennis Smith Jr
ATL John Collins
CHA Miles Bridges
OKC Hamidou Diallo
Title: 25 pt 5 reb 5 ast games for NYK this year
Post by: Kam on February 05, 2019, 11:38:53 PM
Tim Hardaway Jr:   2
Trey Burke:           1
Emmanuel Mudiay: 1
Dennis Smith Jr.:    1


*Luke Kornet almost made this list too!   But he only had 23pts.
Title: Re: Knicks Power Rankings
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 06, 2019, 12:50:28 AM
Quote from: Kam on February 05, 2019, 08:22:29 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on November 30, 2018, 02:23:33 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 30, 2018, 10:46:29 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on November 30, 2018, 08:52:16 AM
Kam - we need an update on your Knicks player power rankings. Do you have your old copy for comparison?


As of October 30:

Hicks
Kornet
Mudiay
Baker
Lee
Hey,ZoneUp
Thomas
Kanter
Burke
Hardaway Jr.
Vonleh
Iso Zo
Dotson
Hardwood Mitch
Knox
Frank
KP

I figured you'd re-do them! Anyhow, here's my stab at it:

Hicks
Baker
Courtly
Kornet
Subpar
Thomas
Kanter
Burke
Dotson (biggest faller)
Mudiay (biggest riser)
Vonleh
Iso Zo
Hardaway Jr.
Knox
Franc
Hardwood Mitch
KP

Knox and Franc may not have fallen far in these rankings, but neither has impressed so far this season; I'm especially underwhelmed with Knox, whose game has been rather hard on the eyes. But I'm hopeful the front office will actually be patient with both of them, at least until this summer, and hopefully beyond.

2 months later... need new rankings! (previous rank)


15 Enes Kanter          (11)
14 Isiah Hicks            (17)
13 Mario Hezonja       (13)
12 Lance Thomas       (12)
11 Wes Matthews
10 Damyean Dotson    (9)
9. Luke Kornet            (14)
8. Emmanuel Mudiay  ( 8 )
7. DeAndre Jordan
6. Noah Vonleh          (7)
5. Frank Ntilikina       (3)
4. Alonzo Trier           (6)
3. Mitchell Robinson   (2)
2. Dennis Smith Jr.
1. Kevin Knox            (4)


Knox's December performance elevates him past the injured Robinson/Ntilikina tandem. 
Kornet jumps on the strength of his shot finally falling, along with Kanters intransigence and traded players vacant spots.

I'd move DeAndre down to 10th, and Dot ahead of Kornet given the contract situations. And Frank is still ahead of IsoZo. If we had been smart enough to add a team option for Vonleh he would have been top 3.
Title: Re: Knicks Power Rankings
Post by: Kam on February 06, 2019, 01:05:03 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on February 06, 2019, 12:50:28 AM
Quote from: Kam on February 05, 2019, 08:22:29 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on November 30, 2018, 02:23:33 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 30, 2018, 10:46:29 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on November 30, 2018, 08:52:16 AM
Kam - we need an update on your Knicks player power rankings. Do you have your old copy for comparison?


As of October 30:

Hicks
Kornet
Mudiay
Baker
Lee
Hey,ZoneUp
Thomas
Kanter
Burke
Hardaway Jr.
Vonleh
Iso Zo
Dotson
Hardwood Mitch
Knox
Frank
KP

I figured you'd re-do them! Anyhow, here's my stab at it:

Hicks
Baker
Courtly
Kornet
Subpar
Thomas
Kanter
Burke
Dotson (biggest faller)
Mudiay (biggest riser)
Vonleh
Iso Zo
Hardaway Jr.
Knox
Franc
Hardwood Mitch
KP

Knox and Franc may not have fallen far in these rankings, but neither has impressed so far this season; I'm especially underwhelmed with Knox, whose game has been rather hard on the eyes. But I'm hopeful the front office will actually be patient with both of them, at least until this summer, and hopefully beyond.

2 months later... need new rankings! (previous rank)


15 Enes Kanter          (11)
14 Isiah Hicks            (17)
13 Mario Hezonja       (13)
12 Lance Thomas       (12)
11 Wes Matthews
10 Damyean Dotson    (9)
9. Luke Kornet            (14)
8. Emmanuel Mudiay  ( 8 )
7. DeAndre Jordan
6. Noah Vonleh          (7)
5. Frank Ntilikina       (3)
4. Alonzo Trier           (6)
3. Mitchell Robinson   (2)
2. Dennis Smith Jr.
1. Kevin Knox            (4)


Knox's December performance elevates him past the injured Robinson/Ntilikina tandem. 
Kornet jumps on the strength of his shot finally falling, along with Kanters intransigence and traded players vacant spots.

I'd move DeAndre down to 10th, and Dot ahead of Kornet given the contract situations. And Frank is still ahead of IsoZo. If we had been smart enough to add a team option for Vonleh he would have been top 3.

Let's evaluate  again after the deadline.  I'm thinking Jordan is worth keeping as a mentor the rest of the season,  and thus his ranking.    Frank's production still doesn't deter his believers. But it dings him here.
Title: Reggie Bullock
Post by: Kam on February 06, 2019, 01:40:31 AM
Drops 19 and 7 on the Knicks with 2 steals and 2 assists and gets traded to the Lakers.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 06, 2019, 02:34:16 AM
Never mind Bullock, Knix lost again.

Actually, a pretty weak move by DET.
Bullock has been a solid starter for them.  38% on 3's, reasonable D.
They ditched him and his puny ending $2.5M to get under the lux tax.

Bull should have been a guy to re-sign at $5M or $6M or so.  So a team lacking depth excises a useful player. ... Now they have to insert StanJohn or Kennard at starting SF.  And neither look ready.  I guess that's DET's white flag.  But it's just a sad commentary on where DET is right now.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 06, 2019, 02:59:53 AM
Haven't seen the last 4 games or so.  Slingbox on the fritz.
What's going on with Von Leh & Knox?
Both seem to be slumping heavily.

So I guess the verdict is in on whether Tim Jr's contract was a bad one or not.  At one point I think I was trying to trade Tim for expiring Wes straight up ...   Hope we don't do a buyout.  Wes could be a good transitional vet at a reasonable price next year.  Yeah, he'd likely prefer a playoff team.  But he could start for NYK.  And if Durnat or a top rook comes ...

As for Vonleh, a lot of players took one year deals since money was tight last Summer, looking to cash in this year when many teams would have cap space and spending dollars.  So I don't think a Team Option was an option.  Nets got one on Napier for very cheap, but most players who took one year deals didn't agree to that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 06, 2019, 03:04:47 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 06, 2019, 02:59:53 AM
Haven't seen the last 4 games or so.  Slingbox on the fritz.
What's going on with Von Leh & Knox?
Both seem to be slumping heavily.


Knox is going to have ups and downs.  He's hit the rookie wall.  He might have dead legs for a while.

Vonleh has started looking for his offense early.. there was a game not long ago he took the first 5 or 6 shots of the game. And he is attempting more threes.  It's like hig agent told him he should do more stretch-4 things.  He shouuldn't do that.  Or maybe he should. But his production isn't there yet to be that guy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 06, 2019, 03:47:15 AM
The game where he took the first 6 shots, he scored something like 10 of the Knix first 12 points.  He was hitting 3's earlier in the year.  But these days his boxscores are rather limp across the board.  A few weeks back VOnleh was regularly getting in foul trouble.  But not lately it seems.

So maybe Vonleh is hogging Knox's 1Q shots, and Knox has been fairly bad other quarters all year (?)

I know it's early days, but how has SMith Jr. looked as a Knick so far?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 06, 2019, 03:52:40 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 06, 2019, 03:47:15 AM

I know it's early days, but how has SMith Jr. looked as a Knick so far?

Throwing lobs to DJ and Mitch.  Attack the rim "with gusto".   
Title: Clippers trade Tobias Harris for Philly's future
Post by: Kam on February 06, 2019, 03:54:30 AM
Tobias Harris, Boban Marjonovic, and Mike Scott to 76ers for Wislon Chandler, Larry Shamet, 2 first round picks, and 2 second round picks
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 06, 2019, 03:56:26 AM
Thx.
That's promising.

And DeAtheG can be the Mitch mentor Noah could have been.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 06, 2019, 04:07:14 AM
Kam turning inot the Woj of the forum ...

Wil breaks down easily.
Gets reunited with Gallo -- the Injury Brothers.

Shamet can shoot, but is chumpy on D.
A shame to lose Chicken Muscala, as he's a pretty useful gritty bench guy.

But wow.  Now PHI has 4 near all-stars starting.
Too bad Fultz is faulty
They also have the largest C tandem.
But what about their bench?

Kind of a lot to give up for Tobias who needs to be re-signed.  He's good, but not great, but he'll ask for a king's ransom.

The East is fairly wide open this year.  So Elton going for it.
See how the pieces fit, and they just really need to re-sign one of Butler/Tobias ...

Clips can sign 1 max FA for $37M.  And they have a better base of talent/role players than Los Nix.  Gallo, Shai, Pa Bev, Lou W, Gortat, Montrezl, A Very.  Notably a bunch of defenders and hustlers that a star would look good surrounded by.
Quote
The Clippers now have a clear path to a max contract this summer with Tobias Harris shipped to Philadelphia. Removing the Harris hold now has Los Angeles with $37M in room. The team could see room increase to $49M if Avery Bradley is waived in the offseason and up $70.7M if they find a team to take back the $22.6M contract of Danilo Gallinari this summer.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: semperknick on February 06, 2019, 04:19:35 AM
"Marc Stein reported that Porzingis was so fed up with the New York Knicks that he was willing to spend the rest of his rehab process in Spain (via New York Times):

According to Stein, his meeting with the Knicks was originally scheduled for earlier in January. But he and older brother Jānis Porzingis delayed it and then sat with the front office for “less than five minutes” before they requested an official trade."

The older brother starting to look more and more like the main actor in the whole process.  Quite telling that Carlisle felt the need to acknowledge him so specifically in the press conference. 

I think  - for what it is worth - that the NY hype just got to their heads, a little bit.  Thet started feeling bigger than they really are.  The indicators were all there - I keep thinking about the "KP Recovery" documentary on youtube which was actually quite well done, and they stopped it after two episodes, I think - probably just when it would have been natural to start talking about how hyped he was to be getting closer to being back on the court for his beloved franchise...awkward. 

AD can pull this kind of crap while under contract for another 18 months - and only just about, because he has the game to carry it. 

KP ain't AD. The way I see it, he chose to make himself part of the problem, rather than part of the solution.  Wish him well, maybe he will smarten up and become great - maybe not.  Maybe he will blow another tendon, or slip and fall at home like John Wall did.  Fuck knows.  He's Cuban's problem now.  We move on.

Pipe dream scenario:  Kyrie, Frank, KD, Knox and DeAndre.  This is top 4 in the East for years to come - Boston, Philly, Milwaukee and NYK.  The way it fucking should be.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 06, 2019, 06:05:33 AM
If Kawhi stays, add in TOR.
I'm not sold on MIL.
Let's see how they do in the playoffs.

The older brother Janis (36 years old) is KZ's agent.
The other brother Martins is his manager.
They were living together last year and I assume this year during the rehab.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on February 06, 2019, 06:58:14 AM
Wow 25-6 after one day, have not seen those numbers from a knick point in a while. How can anyone forget the Allan Houston comeback years? Yes a knee injury in his prime ended in disaster for the home team. A never again lesson? Mavs should be ready for a rude awakening. Ow! my aching knee.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 06, 2019, 10:21:06 AM
Mudiay did this (25-6) twice this season.

I see Fiz kept Smith on the court (39 and change).  Nice.  Mud got those minutes ONCE - and went for 34 and 8 in a win.
Title: Re: Knicks Power Rankings
Post by: elephant on February 06, 2019, 11:52:39 AM
Quote from: Kam on February 05, 2019, 08:22:29 PM

2 months later... need new rankings! (previous rank)

15 Enes Kanter          (11)
14 Isiah Hicks            (17)
13 Mario Hezonja       (13)
12 Lance Thomas       (12)
11 Wes Matthews
10 Damyean Dotson    (9)
9. Luke Kornet            (14)
8. Emmanuel Mudiay  ( 8 )
7. DeAndre Jordan
6. Noah Vonleh          (7)
5. Frank Ntilikina       (3)
4. Alonzo Trier           (6)
3. Mitchell Robinson   (2)
2. Dennis Smith Jr.
1. Kevin Knox            (4)

Knox's December performance elevates him past the injured Robinson/Ntilikina tandem. 
Kornet jumps on the strength of his shot finally falling, along with Kanters intransigence and traded players vacant spots.

Vonleh's play rates him higher (imho)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 06, 2019, 12:00:09 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 06, 2019, 10:21:06 AM
Mudiay did this (25-6) twice this season.

I see Fiz kept Smith on the court (39 and change).  Nice.  Mud got those minutes ONCE - and went for 34 and 8 in a win.

A good reminder. Mud has not had an easy job this year, but he's done well, much better than I imagined.

And he's still learning and improving.
Title: Semper & FWK
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 06, 2019, 12:07:36 PM
Welcome back!

Wonder who else will return after we sign KD?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 06, 2019, 12:08:21 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 06, 2019, 02:34:16 AM
Never mind Bullock, Knix lost again.

Actually, a pretty weak move by DET.
Bullock has been a solid starter for them.  38% on 3's, reasonable D.
They ditched him and his puny ending $2.5M to get under the lux tax.

Bull should have been a guy to re-sign at $5M or $6M or so.  So a team lacking depth excises a useful player. ... Now they have to insert StanJohn or Kennard at starting SF.  And neither look ready.  I guess that's DET's white flag.  But it's just a sad commentary on where DET is right now.

From the pun to start to everything afterwards, this is a mighty fine post.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 06, 2019, 12:11:43 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 06, 2019, 02:59:53 AM
Haven't seen the last 4 games or so.  Slingbox on the fritz.
What's going on with Von Leh & Knox?
Both seem to be slumping heavily.

So I guess the verdict is in on whether Tim Jr's contract was a bad one or not.  At one point I think I was trying to trade Tim for expiring Wes straight up ...   Hope we don't do a buyout.  Wes could be a good transitional vet at a reasonable price next year.  Yeah, he'd likely prefer a playoff team.  But he could start for NYK.  And if Durnat or a top rook comes ...

As for Vonleh, a lot of players took one year deals since money was tight last Summer, looking to cash in this year when many teams would have cap space and spending dollars.  So I don't think a Team Option was an option.  Nets got one on Napier for very cheap, but most players who took one year deals didn't agree to that.

Haven't looked at the box scores but I think Kam has it about right. Vonleh is pressing, and it's not working out well. But he hasn't been super selfish or anything, just less judicious than in the past. I don't mind him seeing if he can expand his game a little bit. He may improve. But right now, it's not working.

As for his contract - Vonleh didn't even have a guarantee to begin the year. He only got locked in after the season started. I think the Knicks might have had enough leverage to have given him a 1+1 back in August.

(Elephant - Vonleh's UFA status is the only reason he's so low on the power rankings)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 06, 2019, 12:42:36 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 06, 2019, 10:21:06 AM
Mudiay did this (25-6) twice this season.

I see Fiz kept Smith on the court (39 and change).  Nice.  Mud got those minutes ONCE - and went for 34 and 8 in a win.

In overtime.  He had 26.9% of Knick points that day.
Dsj actually had 27.1% of Knick points scored.
Title: Re: Knicks Power Rankings
Post by: Kam on February 06, 2019, 12:47:55 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 06, 2019, 11:52:39 AM
Quote from: Kam on February 05, 2019, 08:22:29 PM

2 months later... need new rankings! (previous rank)

15 Enes Kanter          (11)
14 Isiah Hicks            (17)
13 Mario Hezonja       (13)
12 Lance Thomas       (12)
11 Wes Matthews
10 Damyean Dotson    (9)
9. Luke Kornet            (14)
8. Emmanuel Mudiay  ( 8 )
7. DeAndre Jordan
6. Noah Vonleh          (7)
5. Frank Ntilikina       (3)
4. Alonzo Trier           (6)
3. Mitchell Robinson   (2)
2. Dennis Smith Jr.
1. Kevin Knox            (4)

Knox's December performance elevates him past the injured Robinson/Ntilikina tandem. 
Kornet jumps on the strength of his shot finally falling, along with Kanters intransigence and traded players vacant spots.

Vonleh's play rates him higher (imho)

I agree.  He has been our most consistent guy.  The question is regarding his longevity as a Knick.
 Is he in our plans?  If he were signed he would be higher than Trier.

The list is a mix of factors reflecting trade value, potential, and production.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 06, 2019, 01:10:51 PM
Pistons pick up Svi and Thon Maker, ship out Bullock and Stanley J. We see them again next.

Vonleh and Knox regressions May have something to do with the absence of regular PGs, at least for the last several games. Allen and Smitty don’t have the reps with our guys that Frank and Mudiay do.

The Sixers went big on now. It will be interesting to see how they perform and if they can keep their band together.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 06, 2019, 01:43:51 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 06, 2019, 01:10:51 PM

The Sixers went big on now. It will be interesting to see how they perform and if they can keep their band together.


If they extend Ben Simmons this summer the 76ers could be on the hook to pay $120mil for their Top 4 guys
Embiid, Simmons, Butler, and Harris. 

I could see a bunch of our ex-Knicks landing there as Bench Bros.
Title: Kevin Knox - Rising Star
Post by: Kam on February 06, 2019, 02:35:16 PM
Kevin Knox will replace Lonzo Ball in the USA vs. World Rookies and Sophomore challenge.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 06, 2019, 02:44:42 PM
Nice. Hope he plays well.

The Clips added picks, have a fatty trade exception, and are in the playoff hunt. Any of our guys they’d trade a pick for under 9 mil? I’m thinking possibly Mario...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 06, 2019, 02:53:36 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 06, 2019, 02:44:42 PM
Nice. Hope he plays well.

The Clips added picks, have a fatty trade exception, and are in the playoff hunt. Any of our guys they’d trade a pick for under 9 mil? I’m thinking possibly Mario...

This was a lets fall into the lottery move for them --  i think.
Title: Knick Most Likely To Be Moved at Deadline?
Post by: Kam on February 06, 2019, 02:59:45 PM
Vonleh has the most value.
Mudiay could intrigue some teams.

Mario i think has no value.

Wes Matthews has no value.  Or value if we package a pick with him.

DeAndre same deal.

Frank apparently we don't want to trade.  Frank Knox and Dennis are our untouchable core.

I think its Lance Thomas.  Friendly contract.  Team making a playoff push could use him.


Lance and Vonleh could help Houston.   If only they had something we wanted.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Urethra_Franklin on February 06, 2019, 03:52:49 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0wQ8MYUFbI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0wQ8MYUFbI)



Title: Re: Knick Most Likely To Be Moved at Deadline?
Post by: Urethra_Franklin on February 06, 2019, 04:12:58 PM
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yck5p9m4 (http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yck5p9m4)

We'd obviously have to add a couple draft picks to the pot.  DeAndre has to stay if we're going to be competitive for the next few seasons.  Pairing him with AD would easily make us a playoff team, and adding Durant or Kawaii to the mix makes us contenders.  Landing Davis is the only way I see the KP trade as being worth it.

DeAndre
Davis
Kawaii
Matthews?
Dennis

We'd also have a deep bench under this scenario.  Don't wake me up from my wet dream, guys
Title: Re: Knick Most Likely To Be Moved at Deadline?
Post by: Urethra_Franklin on February 06, 2019, 04:16:56 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 06, 2019, 02:59:45 PM
Vonleh has the most value.
Mudiay could intrigue some teams.

Mario i think has no value.

Wes Matthews has no value.  Or value if we package a pick with him.

DeAndre same deal.

Frank apparently we don't want to trade.  Frank Knox and Dennis are our untouchable core.

I think its Lance Thomas.  Friendly contract.  Team making a playoff push could use him.


Lance and Vonleh could help Houston.   If only they had something we wanted.


Maybe Matthews has value for the Pacers after they lost Oladipo?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on February 06, 2019, 05:39:19 PM
Lancela hanging by his fingernails on the leagues worst team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 06, 2019, 06:28:25 PM
https://www.lakersnation.com/lakers-rumors-growing-sense-grand-plan-is-trade-for-anthony-davis-sign-kyrie-irving/2019/02/06/ (https://www.lakersnation.com/lakers-rumors-growing-sense-grand-plan-is-trade-for-anthony-davis-sign-kyrie-irving/2019/02/06/)
Title: Re: Knick Most Likely To Be Moved at Deadline?
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 06, 2019, 06:53:27 PM
Quote from: Urethra_Franklin on February 06, 2019, 04:16:56 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 06, 2019, 02:59:45 PM
Vonleh has the most value.
Mudiay could intrigue some teams.

Mario i think has no value.

Wes Matthews has no value.  Or value if we package a pick with him.

DeAndre same deal.

Frank apparently we don't want to trade.  Frank Knox and Dennis are our untouchable core.

I think its Lance Thomas.  Friendly contract.  Team making a playoff push could use him.


Lance and Vonleh could help Houston.   If only they had something we wanted.


Maybe Matthews has value for the Pacers after they lost Oladipo?

If you are getting a second rounder only I would just as soon keep him
Title: Re: Knick Most Likely To Be Moved at Deadline?
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 06, 2019, 06:58:17 PM
Quote from: Urethra_Franklin on February 06, 2019, 04:12:58 PM
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yck5p9m4 (http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yck5p9m4)

We'd obviously have to add a couple draft picks to the pot.  DeAndre has to stay if we're going to be competitive for the next few seasons.  Pairing him with AD would easily make us a playoff team, and adding Durant or Kawaii to the mix makes us contenders.  Landing Davis is the only way I see the KP trade as being worth it.

DeAndre
Davis
Kawaii
Matthews?
Dennis

We'd also have a deep bench under this scenario.  Don't wake me up from my wet dream, guys

Cant afford all that......
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 06, 2019, 11:12:04 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on February 06, 2019, 12:11:43 PM
Haven't looked at the box scores but I think Kam has it about right. Vonleh is pressing, and it's not working out well. But he hasn't been super selfish or anything, just less judicious than in the past. I don't mind him seeing if he can expand his game a little bit. He may improve. But right now, it's not working.

As for his contract - Vonleh didn't even have a guarantee to begin the year. He only got locked in after the season started. I think the Knicks might have had enough leverage to have given him a 1+1 back in August.

(Elephant - Vonleh's UFA status is the only reason he's so low on the power rankings)

right, right, thanks i forgot.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 06, 2019, 11:16:04 PM
Quote from: Urethra_Franklin on February 06, 2019, 03:52:49 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0wQ8MYUFbI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0wQ8MYUFbI)

Funny. This is the first time I realized that Rapaport is the same guy who plays a slur-spouting cop in Spike's Do the Right Thing
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 06, 2019, 11:27:09 PM
Wiz score 129 and get blown out by Bucks.
I saw the 2nd half.
Check the box score and O. Porter Jr is listed as DNP-Trade.

Portis and Jabari for Porter.
I like it.  No way WIZ pick up Jabari's option.  So he's an ending and done there.  Portis for Porter get WAS out of Big money and they can decide on re-signing Portis.  CHI has a low payroll and can add Porter's big contract.  Get a nice player.  Maybe he'll up his aggressiveness.

Yesterday, Chian TV was running a pormo for the Wiz-Bucks game.  They start off showing Wall on a fastbreak, spinning and banking in a layup.  Then Uber up high smashing down a vicious dunk.  And I'm wondering if they realize both guys don't play there this season.

Other news:
Mavericks trading Harrison Barnes to Kings for Justin Jackson, Zach Randolph.  DAL gets younger and drops Barnes overpriced deal.  Just Jax has looked mediocre to me.  But he's young and bouncy.
SAC converts cap space, an ending deal, and unproven yute into a solid vet.  Trying to make a move.  Another nice deal where both teams meet their objectives.  Though I like it more for Kings.

Getting a nice player is always better looking than getting cap space.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 06, 2019, 11:41:47 PM
Some other rumors

Grizz and Raps -

Conley and Gasol for Jonas V and Lowry.  Lowry has already commented.

Reggie Bullock for Svi Michialuk - I think this one is done.  Pistons get a good athlete.....

Miami now has dealt Tyler Johnson to the Suns, who get their PG......
Heat get our old pal Ryan Anderson

Couple others......

Title: Hey Biz.... how is this allowed?
Post by: Kam on February 07, 2019, 02:03:24 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 06, 2019, 11:41:47 PM

Couple others......

This strikes me as weird...




FEB. 6

 team    ROCKETS
Acquired: Iman Shumpert, Nik Stauskas, Wade Baldwin

 team CAVALIERS
Acquired: Brandon Knight, Marquese Chriss, 2019 first-round pick (via Rockets, lottery protected)



FEB. 3

 team CAVALIERS
Acquired: Nik Stauskas, Wade Baldwin, 2021 second-round pick, 2023 second-round pick

 team TRAIL BLAZERS
Acquired: Rodney Hood
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 07, 2019, 02:04:25 AM
So can we combine Wes and DeAndre together?

And can we combine them with another player?


Looks like the CAVS did just that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 07, 2019, 04:39:15 AM
Ending contracts brought in solid overpaid players for teams willing to take on more salary.
Jabari turned into Otto Porter.
ZBo's corpse flipped for Barnes.

Lotta movement this deadline.

Mavs traded away all of its starters not named Doncic.
Wizbangs ditched Porter and Morris to skirt under the tax.
Basically traded away everyone but Beal and the crippled, untradeable Wall.

Probably more trades as I was typing.

Shump has played pretty well this year, and Rocks need the extra defense.  HOU also traded MCW to CHI.  Gave them cash for some very future 2nd.  CHI expected to waive MCW.  Basically paid CHI to get a roster spot.  Not sure why not just cut him.  Weird non-career he's had. 

Title: Re: Hey Biz.... how is this allowed?
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 07, 2019, 08:29:13 AM
Quote from: Kam on February 07, 2019, 02:03:24 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 06, 2019, 11:41:47 PM

Couple others......

This strikes me as weird...




FEB. 6

 team    ROCKETS
Acquired: Iman Shumpert, Nik Stauskas, Wade Baldwin

 team CAVALIERS
Acquired: Brandon Knight, Marquese Chriss, 2019 first-round pick (via Rockets, lottery protected)



FEB. 3

 team CAVALIERS
Acquired: Nik Stauskas, Wade Baldwin, 2021 second-round pick, 2023 second-round pick

 team TRAIL BLAZERS
Acquired: Rodney Hood

Since they were just acquired, the players cannot be aggregated in a deal, thus the Cavs and Rockets will make separate deals

Per NBAhoopsrumors

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/ (https://www.hoopsrumors.com/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 07, 2019, 08:30:48 AM
Some Knicks info in there as well

Knicks may offer DeAndre their 5 mil exception for next year

Teams have been calling onn Dotson - Sacramento being one

John Jenkins may be brought back if Wiz let him go after his 10-day

And Kanter may in fact be bought out
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 07, 2019, 08:55:21 AM
Quote from: Kam on February 06, 2019, 01:43:51 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 06, 2019, 01:10:51 PM

The Sixers went big on now. It will be interesting to see how they perform and if they can keep their band together.


If they extend Ben Simmons this summer the 76ers could be on the hook to pay $120mil for their Top 4 guys
Embiid, Simmons, Butler, and Harris. 

I could see a bunch of our ex-Knicks landing there as Bench Bros.

Conventional wisdom has Harris OR Butler being kept by Philly.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 07, 2019, 10:20:44 AM
That's what I was thinking.

Kings got crushed by Rockettes.
Fox was ineffectual: 6 / 6 / 5 turnovers.
Hield with another half dozen miscues.
Giles is athletic and raw.  Interesting.

Odd team.  They pass the ball around for no advantage more than one would expect possible.

Not sure what the plan is with Hairy Barnes.
Fox - Hield - Barnes - Bjelica - WCS
Fairly solid.

I guess Barnes can play some PF and they can go smaller.
Now, they do a lot of Big lineups with WCS and Bagley.

One funny game subplot: CP3 kept getting Bigs switched on him, so he'd pound and pound and then jack off-target 3's.  This was mostly 2nd half when they were up 30, so no one cared.  But CP3 went 1-8 on 3's.  and it was kind of funny how he was determined not to pass but to "take advantage" of the mismatch.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 07, 2019, 11:04:26 AM
Quote from: Kam on February 07, 2019, 02:04:25 AM
So can we combine Wes and DeAndre together?

And can we combine them with another player?


Looks like the CAVS did just that.

Thanks Kiid for the explanation. Moves happened so fast I wasn't able to keep up.

Definitely cannot trade anyone with Wessy or DeAndre. The Kings and Wizards trades pretty much removed any hope of either player (or obviously Kanter) being moved since I don't think there is a market for them among teams with expiring deals.

All that to say - I'd be surprised if the Knicks made any trades. But Kanter will definitely be bought out, Wessy also likely. Hezonja a possibility.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 07, 2019, 11:06:07 AM
Quote from: Kam on February 06, 2019, 02:53:36 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 06, 2019, 02:44:42 PM
Nice. Hope he plays well.

The Clips added picks, have a fatty trade exception, and are in the playoff hunt. Any of our guys they’d trade a pick for under 9 mil? I’m thinking possibly Mario...

This was a lets fall into the lottery move for them --  i think.

Exactly. Fascinating that they've been on the cusp of the playoffs two years in a row and basically traded out of the playoffs. Jerry West/Lawrence Frank/Steve Ballmer all deserve credit for their being far-sighted. Also, Doc was not supposed to win this many games this year or last year, he's kind of getting in the way of the tank. A better coach as an underdog than as the fave.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 07, 2019, 11:09:18 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 07, 2019, 08:55:21 AM
Quote from: Kam on February 06, 2019, 01:43:51 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 06, 2019, 01:10:51 PM

The Sixers went big on now. It will be interesting to see how they perform and if they can keep their band together.


If they extend Ben Simmons this summer the 76ers could be on the hook to pay $120mil for their Top 4 guys
Embiid, Simmons, Butler, and Harris. 

I could see a bunch of our ex-Knicks landing there as Bench Bros.

Conventional wisdom has Harris OR Butler being kept by Philly.

It might happen that one of those guys bolts (perhaps to Brooklyn?), but I don't think that's the conventional wisdom. More are presuming they keep all four and whoever they end up acquiring for Markelle Fultz.

By the way, Tobias Harris is better than Otto Porter or Harrison Barnes...but he is not two first round picks and Landry Shamet better than those guys. And you could argue Porter fit better in Philly as a fourth option and defender than Harris will (conversely, I don't think Chicago is a great team for Otto).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 07, 2019, 11:12:45 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 06, 2019, 11:41:47 PM
Grizz and Raps -

Conley and Gasol for Jonas V and Lowry.  Lowry has already commented.

Reggie Bullock for Svi Michialuk - I think this one is done.  Pistons get a good athlete.....

Miami now has dealt Tyler Johnson to the Suns, who get their PG......
Heat get our old pal Ryan Anderson

Raps/Grizz deal appears to be dead, although Memphis, like Charlotte and Atlanta, is a team that I'm convinced will do something today because they kind of just have to.

Tyler Johnson isn't, in my eyes "their PG". He's just a guard, who can shoot, sure. But it's more likely that by opening night it's Garland or Ja or Brogdon or Sato or Rozier - any of those guys would have more appeal as a PG than Tyler Johnson will.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 07, 2019, 11:22:27 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on February 07, 2019, 11:12:45 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 06, 2019, 11:41:47 PM
Grizz and Raps -

Conley and Gasol for Jonas V and Lowry.  Lowry has already commented.

Reggie Bullock for Svi Michialuk - I think this one is done.  Pistons get a good athlete.....

Miami now has dealt Tyler Johnson to the Suns, who get their PG......
Heat get our old pal Ryan Anderson

Raps/Grizz deal appears to be dead, although Memphis, like Charlotte and Atlanta, is a team that I'm convinced will do something today because they kind of just have to.

Tyler Johnson isn't, in my eyes "their PG". He's just a guard, who can shoot, sure. But it's more likely that by opening night it's Garland or Ja or Brogdon or Sato or Rozier - any of those guys would have more appeal as a PG than Tyler Johnson will.

Actually, I realise now that by keeping TJ they won't have the cap space to be important players in free agency, unless they renounce Kelly Oubre. So either they're planning on operating above the cap and think they can a) draft a PG b) get a starting PG with the MLE (you're not getting Brogdon for that money, but maybe someone like Sato or Delon) or, Kiid's right, and c) they already have their PG.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 07, 2019, 11:32:04 AM
Marc Stein reporting that The Brow is equally interested in NYK and LAL as a long term home.  So the Knix could have looked for a 3rd team that wanted KZ to work out a way to get AD here. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 07, 2019, 12:19:34 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 07, 2019, 11:32:04 AM
Marc Stein reporting that The Brow is equally interested in NYK and LAL as a long term home.  So the Knix could have looked for a 3rd team that wanted KZ to work out a way to get AD here.

Well, NOLA wasn't likely to be trading him before the deadline/draft/Tatum's availability so by trading with Dallas the Knicks have effectively done this. NY couldn't wait until the summer to trade Porzingis for AD, too many complications would have arose
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 07, 2019, 01:28:45 PM
Stauskas and Baldwin on the move again.... to Pacers.
Title: Mirotic three-way
Post by: Kam on February 07, 2019, 01:31:11 PM
NO trades Nikola Mirotic to the Bucks for Detroit's Stanley Johnson  and a bunch of 2nd rd picks are exchanging hands.
Title: Re: Mirotic three-way
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 07, 2019, 01:36:46 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 07, 2019, 01:31:11 PM
NO trades Nikola Mirotic to the Bucks for Detroit's Stanley Johnson  and a bunch of 2nd rd picks are exchanging hands.

Unfair. That's robbery.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 07, 2019, 01:39:31 PM
So Bucks get Mirotic for Maker

Lets see how he fits
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 07, 2019, 01:51:39 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 07, 2019, 01:39:31 PM
So Bucks get Mirotic for Maker

Lets see how he fits

Well, and four second rounders.

And if you say second rounders don't matter, I'd like to point out four of them just bought Nikola Mirotic. So they do matter.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 07, 2019, 01:58:46 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 07, 2019, 01:28:45 PM
Stauskas and Baldwin on the move again.... to Pacers.

Sunday Feb 3: From Portland to Cleveland
Wednesday Feb 6: Cleveland to Houston
Thursday Feb 7: Houston to Indiana
Today: Cut
Title: gas ol raptor
Post by: Kam on February 07, 2019, 01:59:11 PM
Toronto gets Ma Gasol.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 07, 2019, 02:05:26 PM
So the West has recently been the dominant conference. But since Lebron went out West, we have:

Butler to the Sixers
Tobias to the Sixers
Marc Gasol to the Raps
Mirotic to the Bucks
Durant to the Knicks
Davis to the Knicks

Really, a startling shift in power.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 07, 2019, 02:15:05 PM
lol, lol
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 07, 2019, 02:39:50 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on February 07, 2019, 02:15:05 PM
lol, lol

Don't make fun of me just because I didn't put Zion to Knicks. He gets sent to NOLA in the Davis trade, dummy.
Title: For Fac
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 07, 2019, 02:40:09 PM
K.C. Johnson  @KCJHoop
Definitely surprised Bulls traded Portis. But don't agree with talk of "no loyalty." They offered him a multi-year extension worth $40-50M last Fall. He said no, which is certainly Portis' right. Also, word around league is Portis is looking for $16M annually this summer in RFA.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 07, 2019, 02:45:07 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on February 07, 2019, 02:39:50 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on February 07, 2019, 02:15:05 PM
lol, lol

Don't make fun of me just because I didn't put Zion to Knicks. He gets sent to NOLA in the Davis trade, dummy.

That trade is gonna suck.
Title: Markelle Fultz to Orlando
Post by: Kam on February 07, 2019, 02:57:27 PM
76ers get Jonathan Simmons, a #1 and a #2

76ers now have all the Simmons
Title: Worldwide Weschester
Post by: Kam on February 07, 2019, 02:57:52 PM
Wes Matthews to be bought out.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 07, 2019, 03:04:09 PM
Head scratchers:

-Atlanta and Charlotte doing nothing. I thought for sure they would.
-Orlando preferring to keep Terrence Ross and give up Simmons and a 1st rounder (they could have kept the pick otherwise)
-Why Tobias cost sooooo much more than Harry Barnes and Otto. He's better than those guys, but not two firsts and Shamet better
-Sacramento preferring Barnes to Porter
-As mentioned before, why didn't Philly just go after Porter?
-Why the Lakers gave up Zubac for Muscala (I'd definitely have kept Zubac. He can play!)
-Miami not making one more trade to get under the cap
-Ariza and Justin Holiday not being traded


Best move as of right now has to be Mirotic. Also like Gasol. And Orlando did the right thing making a play for Fultz - Terry Rozier's agent is not going to be happy today.
Title: Re: Worldwide Weschester
Post by: Kam on February 07, 2019, 03:27:49 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 07, 2019, 02:57:52 PM
Wes Matthews to be bought out.

Wes a Pacer.

Title: Re: Knick Most Likely To Be Moved at Deadline?
Post by: Kam on February 07, 2019, 03:28:46 PM
Quote from: Urethra_Franklin on February 06, 2019, 04:16:56 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 06, 2019, 02:59:45 PM
Vonleh has the most value.
Mudiay could intrigue some teams.

Mario i think has no value.

Wes Matthews has no value.  Or value if we package a pick with him.

DeAndre same deal.

Frank apparently we don't want to trade.  Frank Knox and Dennis are our untouchable core.

I think its Lance Thomas.  Friendly contract.  Team making a playoff push could use him.


Lance and Vonleh could help Houston.   If only they had something we wanted.


Maybe Matthews has value for the Pacers after they lost Oladipo?

We didn't get shiz for that bish
Title: Glory Glory Hallelujah
Post by: Kam on February 07, 2019, 03:29:34 PM
Kanter bought OUT!

OY DIOS MIO
Title: Re: Glory Glory Hallelujah
Post by: Kam on February 07, 2019, 03:31:30 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 07, 2019, 03:29:34 PM
Kanter bought OUT!

OY DIOS MIO

Deuces Carlos. It's been real.  We will always have our irrational love.

(https://thenypost.files.wordpress.com/2018/12/Bucks_Knicks_Basketball.jpg?quality=90&strip=all)
Title: Re: Glory Glory Hallelujah
Post by: carlos123 on February 07, 2019, 03:57:09 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 07, 2019, 03:31:30 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 07, 2019, 03:29:34 PM
Kanter bought OUT!

OY DIOS MIO

Deuces Carlos. It's been real.  We will always have our irrational love.

(https://thenypost.files.wordpress.com/2018/12/Bucks_Knicks_Basketball.jpg?quality=90&strip=all)

You really need to work on your Spanish, maybe sue the school where you “learned” it 😂

Glad Kanter was bought out. Now he has a chance to play for a better coach.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on February 07, 2019, 03:59:17 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 07, 2019, 02:45:07 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on February 07, 2019, 02:39:50 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on February 07, 2019, 02:15:05 PM
lol, lol

Don't make fun of me just because I didn't put Zion to Knicks. He gets sent to NOLA in the Davis trade, dummy.

That trade is gonna suck.

Wow!!! I’m amazed at the situation, but I have to admit it. I AGREE WITH CHICO HERE.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 07, 2019, 04:13:41 PM
Hard to keep track of all the moves.

Nice haul by PHI for Faultz.
So for their bench, they sent out Muscala and Shamet (& Fultz)
Added Simmons, Mike Scott & Boban the Ogre and Ennis.

And of course swapped in Tobias for Wil in the starting lineup.
Quite busy and looks like they added some depth.
Shamet nailed 3's but played awful D.
Simmons and Ennis give them switchy wings.

Tobias is better than Porter and PHI will have options how to proceed.  Porter locks them into big money without knowing the fit.
Tobias is more assertive too.

Interesting the way PHI, MIL and TOR all upgraded.

(the other recentish movement East was Kawhi for Demar, and Blake to DET)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on February 07, 2019, 04:31:57 PM
The Fultz error seems to be over in Philly.
Title: Once again, KP fuckery
Post by: Kam on February 07, 2019, 05:35:11 PM

Jonathan Macri
@JCMacriNBA

 On ESPN now, @ramonashelburne painted the picture that the Knicks offered KP an Embiid-type extension (i.e., with injury protections) last summer, and he was “happy to wait.” Then the team continued to see his discontent. Also, that final meeting was rescheduled “several times.”
Title: Marchin Orders
Post by: Kam on February 07, 2019, 06:00:22 PM
Clippers waive Marcin Gortat
Title: Anthony Davis
Post by: Kam on February 07, 2019, 06:05:05 PM
Good news for us that he wasn't traded.   
Pelicans are waiting to see what pick we land.
If we get #1 or #2 we might use it for AD.

It is sad but it looks like no Zion train.
Title: Re: Once again, KP fuckery
Post by: lesterluv on February 07, 2019, 06:18:05 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 07, 2019, 05:35:11 PM

Jonathan Macri
@JCMacriNBA

 On ESPN now, @ramonashelburne painted the picture that the Knicks offered KP an Embiid-type extension (i.e., with injury protections) last summer, and he was “happy to wait.” Then the team continued to see his discontent. Also, that final meeting was rescheduled “several times.”

Fuckery, my A$$. We know you hate uppity nigras, but teams don't give a rats ass about their players. They have to watch their own backs. KP's managed his career very well. No way he could trust his future to THE WORST ORGANIZATION IN SPORTS over the last two decades. You are too funny.

Good for you, KP.
It's gonna be fun to watch you and Luka.

It's also gonna be fun as heck to watch the Eastern Conference Semis on up this year.
Title: Re: Once again, KP fuckery
Post by: Kam on February 07, 2019, 06:31:31 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on February 07, 2019, 06:18:05 PM
We know you hate uppity nigras,

I don't like players who put themselves above the team silly.
Title: Lets pretend we get Zion - Do we trade him for AD?
Post by: Kam on February 07, 2019, 06:38:25 PM
How much more young talent and picks would we need to give NO for a players on an ending deal?

Does Zion, sign and traded Noah Vonleh, and a future 1 get it done?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 07, 2019, 08:05:15 PM
The star-phucking makes me queasy.

Let’s see what we can do with this roster and our draft first.

Jordan Robinson
Vonleh Kornet Thomas
Knox Mario
Dotson Trier
Smitty Mudiay Frank

We’re going to be obliged to pick up some guys. I like the opportunity to find a diamond in the rough.
Title: Phuck ‘em
Post by: carlos123 on February 07, 2019, 08:41:08 PM
Phuck NO and AD.

I don’t wanna give ‘em Zion if we get him.

AD TO LA !!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 07, 2019, 08:53:44 PM
Demps:  "We will preserve the integrity of the game"

https://twitter.com/sam_amick/status/1093681044933423104 (https://twitter.com/sam_amick/status/1093681044933423104)

Hear that, Fiz?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on February 07, 2019, 09:00:10 PM
nice opportunity for the Pels to see the candidates audition head to head.

LMAO
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 07, 2019, 09:02:47 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 07, 2019, 08:05:15 PM
The star-phucking makes me queasy.

Let’s see what we can do with this roster and our draft first.

Jordan Robinson
Vonleh Kornet Thomas
Knox Mario
Dotson Trier
Smitty Mudiay Frank

We’re going to be obliged to pick up some guys. I like the opportunity to find a diamond in the rough.

Jenkins should be one of them.

They may discuss Jimmer - but likely he goes elsewhere.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 07, 2019, 09:53:09 PM
Sydney?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on February 07, 2019, 10:03:49 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 07, 2019, 09:53:09 PM
Sydney?

No, not Sydney.

Auckland it is.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on February 07, 2019, 10:38:10 PM
Celts playing efense tonight.

isgusted,

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 07, 2019, 10:54:46 PM
Good FT defense though . . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 07, 2019, 10:55:41 PM
https://hoopshype.com/2018/11/27/jimmer-fredette-nba-return-shanghai-sharks-contract-details/ (https://hoopshype.com/2018/11/27/jimmer-fredette-nba-return-shanghai-sharks-contract-details/)

JIMO DASHEN
Title: Re: Once again, KP fuckery
Post by: lesterluv on February 08, 2019, 01:34:49 AM
Quote from: Kam on February 07, 2019, 06:31:31 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on February 07, 2019, 06:18:05 PM
We know you hate uppity nigras,

I don't like players who put themselves above the team silly.

What team?

A bunch a guys, most of whom won't be around too long and know it, put on the floor in combinations designed to maximize losing, and three empty chairs hoping to be filled?

Teams have systems, cultures, and shared purposes.

***build a winning culture, lol, lol, there is nobody more full of shaz then fiz in the entire league, nobody

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 08, 2019, 01:44:36 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 07, 2019, 04:13:41 PM
(the other recetnish movement East was Kawhi for Demar, and Blake to DET)

Thanks, I forgot.


Quote from: Kam on February 07, 2019, 06:38:25 PM
How much more young talent and picks would we need to give NO for a players on an ending deal?

Does Zion, sign and traded Noah Vonleh, and a future 1 get it done?

We don't have bird rights on Vonleh, so no point signing and trading him. He won't be part of the deal.

If we sign Durant and Kyrie to their full amounts and want Davis, ALL of Knox/Ntilikina/DSJ need to go; possibly Dot and Mitch too.

Even if we don't, guessing two of that trio and at least two #1s would need to be included in the deal. In general, I'd rather send out lots of future #1s and keep as many guys as we can, but cap constraints will be very tight if we manage to secure a big 3 of AD/KD/Kyrie. We'd also waive all our rights to Mudiay.

(If it is anyone other than KD we're signing for the max, say, Boogie or Butler, to pair with Kyrie, we'd save enough to keep at least one if not two of the aforementioned trio. DSJ is the most logical to move given his position. If it's anyone other than Kyrie we sign, no change to cap hit).

(And if KD and Kyrie want to be nice, they'll leave a tiny bit of change on the table to help us keep either Knox or more likely Ntilikina)
Title: Re: Once again, KP fuckery
Post by: Kam on February 08, 2019, 01:48:02 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on February 08, 2019, 01:34:49 AM
Quote from: Kam on February 07, 2019, 06:31:31 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on February 07, 2019, 06:18:05 PM
We know you hate uppity nigras,

I don't like players who put themselves above the team silly.

What team?


(https://d2z1w4aiblvrwu.cloudfront.net/ad/IOu0/office-depot-officemax-the-team-hp-ink-large-3.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 08, 2019, 08:34:34 AM
Give LeBJ credit, he turned a somewhat hokey all-star draft into a recruitment seminar.

1st pick: Kevin Durant
2nd: Kyrie Irving
3rd: Kawhi Leonard
Bench
AD & Klay

Why not get the guys you want your team to sign in FA to hang out on your team, where you can talk and set them up and pitch the Lakes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 08, 2019, 09:00:59 AM
Re:  Kawhi to Raptors

DeMarr says hello - from his playoff team out West.

And Tobias/Blake is a double dip.  Harris was in the East initially....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 08, 2019, 09:36:50 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on February 08, 2019, 01:44:36 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 07, 2019, 04:13:41 PM
(the other recetnish movement East was Kawhi for Demar, and Blake to DET)

Thanks, I forgot.


Quote from: Kam on February 07, 2019, 06:38:25 PM
How much more young talent and picks would we need to give NO for a players on an ending deal?

Does Zion, sign and traded Noah Vonleh, and a future 1 get it done?

We don't have bird rights on Vonleh, so no point signing and trading him. He won't be part of the deal.

If we sign Durant and Kyrie to their full amounts and want Davis, ALL of Knox/Ntilikina/DSJ need to go; possibly Dot and Mitch too.

Even if we don't, guessing two of that trio and at least two #1s would need to be included in the deal. In general, I'd rather send out lots of future #1s and keep as many guys as we can, but cap constraints will be very tight if we manage to secure a big 3 of AD/KD/Kyrie. We'd also waive all our rights to Mudiay.

(If it is anyone other than KD we're signing for the max, say, Boogie or Butler, to pair with Kyrie, we'd save enough to keep at least one if not two of the aforementioned trio. DSJ is the most logical to move given his position. If it's anyone other than Kyrie we sign, no change to cap hit).

(And if KD and Kyrie want to be nice, they'll leave a tiny bit of change on the table to help us keep either Knox or more likely Ntilikina)

I am still not sure the money is there for Davis plus two maxes.  A deal for Davis would absorb his deal into our cap after keeping Knox, Mitch, Frank and Dennis.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 08, 2019, 09:41:37 AM
Keeping just Dennis and dealing the other three, I guess - would be the aim.

Along with losing the #1.......

So we start with Davis and Smith, lets be generous and say a re-signed Dotson - and add 2 guys?  Is this what we want - even if it could be done? Leaving us how many picks?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 08, 2019, 09:47:23 AM
Smith, Davis, Dotson, 2 free agents and 3 future #1 picks in next 5 drafts

vs

Smith, Frank, Kevin, Mitch, 2 free agents, ZION OR RJ and SIX more number 1s the next 4 years
.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 08, 2019, 11:10:15 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 08, 2019, 09:47:23 AM
Smith, Davis, Dotson, 2 free agents and 3 future #1 picks in next 5 drafts

vs

Smith, Frank, Kevin, Mitch, 2 free agents, ZION OR RJ and SIX more number 1s the next 4 years
.

It's not just a question of what picks these Knicks can afford to send away.

Can the Knicks afford to let AD go to Boston?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 08, 2019, 11:28:28 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 08, 2019, 08:34:34 AM
Give LeBJ credit, he turned a somewhat hokey all-star draft into a recruitment seminar.

1st pick: Kevin Durant
2nd: Kyrie Irving
3rd: Kawhi Leonard
Bench
AD & Klay

Why not get the guys you want your team to sign in FA to hang out on your team, where you can talk and set them up and pitch the Lakes.

Maybe it's because LBJ and Giannis have charisma, but I found the whole affair surprisingly entertaining
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 08, 2019, 11:32:45 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 08, 2019, 09:36:50 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on February 08, 2019, 01:44:36 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 07, 2019, 04:13:41 PM
(the other recetnish movement East was Kawhi for Demar, and Blake to DET)

Thanks, I forgot.


Quote from: Kam on February 07, 2019, 06:38:25 PM
How much more young talent and picks would we need to give NO for a players on an ending deal?

Does Zion, sign and traded Noah Vonleh, and a future 1 get it done?

We don't have bird rights on Vonleh, so no point signing and trading him. He won't be part of the deal.

If we sign Durant and Kyrie to their full amounts and want Davis, ALL of Knox/Ntilikina/DSJ need to go; possibly Dot and Mitch too.

Even if we don't, guessing two of that trio and at least two #1s would need to be included in the deal. In general, I'd rather send out lots of future #1s and keep as many guys as we can, but cap constraints will be very tight if we manage to secure a big 3 of AD/KD/Kyrie. We'd also waive all our rights to Mudiay.

(If it is anyone other than KD we're signing for the max, say, Boogie or Butler, to pair with Kyrie, we'd save enough to keep at least one if not two of the aforementioned trio. DSJ is the most logical to move given his position. If it's anyone other than Kyrie we sign, no change to cap hit).

(And if KD and Kyrie want to be nice, they'll leave a tiny bit of change on the table to help us keep either Knox or more likely Ntilikina)

I am still not sure the money is there for Davis plus two maxes.  A deal for Davis would absorb his deal into our cap after keeping Knox, Mitch, Frank and Dennis.

The money is definitely there - this is simple arithmetic, there's no salary demand from anyone that can change that. It costs us the players listed above, so if someone wants to argue it isn't worth it, a question you raised in a subsequent post, that's a legitimate debate (I, personally, strongly feel you trade for Davis if you can).

But don't sweat the math - it's feasible. First you sign your first rounder, then Durant and Irving (in this scenario), and then, 30 days after your first rounder put pen to paper, you aggregate all your remaining contracts, including the first rounder, and trade them for Davis (whose contract would be more expensive, but within the 25% allowable range).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 08, 2019, 12:52:32 PM
If you say so.......

I would be perfectly happy with whoever wants to come on top of what we have now and (Barrett).  Can't get too giddy about having the fortune to land Zion.

Dennis
RJ Barrett
Knox
XXXX
Jordan

Frank
Mitch
add
add
add

Hoping the X is Durant of course -
and we then have $$ still available to improve the lot (maybe including taking back Vonleh and matching on Dotson)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 08, 2019, 01:25:02 PM
If we don't trade any of our youth for Davis and sign Durant and don't waive Dotson, we'd still have about $36 million left over ($33 with Trier retained). DeAndre will cost in the $5-8m range, same with Vonleh. You can dream a bit bigger than this year's terrible team plus Durant.

Moreover, Durant is coming if he's inheriting the same squad plus RJ Barrett. He needs another potential 2020 all-star to sign. Kyrie, Kemba, Butler, someone else has to be coming with him.

This almost certainly means Vonleh is gone, btw.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 08, 2019, 01:53:38 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on February 08, 2019, 01:25:02 PM
If we don't trade any of our youth for Davis and sign Durant and don't waive Dotson, we'd still have about $36 million left over ($33 with Trier retained). DeAndre will cost in the $5-8m range, same with Vonleh. You can dream a bit bigger than this year's terrible team plus Durant.



Right - like I said

7 number ones has a nice ring to it.  Especially with 2 max free agents.

But go on with your Davis envy.....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 08, 2019, 02:03:44 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on February 08, 2019, 11:32:45 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 08, 2019, 09:36:50 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on February 08, 2019, 01:44:36 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 07, 2019, 04:13:41 PM
(the other recetnish movement East was Kawhi for Demar, and Blake to DET)

Thanks, I forgot.


Quote from: Kam on February 07, 2019, 06:38:25 PM
How much more young talent and picks would we need to give NO for a players on an ending deal?

Does Zion, sign and traded Noah Vonleh, and a future 1 get it done?

We don't have bird rights on Vonleh, so no point signing and trading him. He won't be part of the deal.

If we sign Durant and Kyrie to their full amounts and want Davis, ALL of Knox/Ntilikina/DSJ need to go; possibly Dot and Mitch too.

Even if we don't, guessing two of that trio and at least two #1s would need to be included in the deal. In general, I'd rather send out lots of future #1s and keep as many guys as we can, but cap constraints will be very tight if we manage to secure a big 3 of AD/KD/Kyrie. We'd also waive all our rights to Mudiay.

(If it is anyone other than KD we're signing for the max, say, Boogie or Butler, to pair with Kyrie, we'd save enough to keep at least one if not two of the aforementioned trio. DSJ is the most logical to move given his position. If it's anyone other than Kyrie we sign, no change to cap hit).

(And if KD and Kyrie want to be nice, they'll leave a tiny bit of change on the table to help us keep either Knox or more likely Ntilikina)

I am still not sure the money is there for Davis plus two maxes.  A deal for Davis would absorb his deal into our cap after keeping Knox, Mitch, Frank and Dennis.

The money is definitely there - this is simple arithmetic, there's no salary demand from anyone that can change that. It costs us the players listed above, so if someone wants to argue it isn't worth it, a question you raised in a subsequent post, that's a legitimate debate (I, personally, strongly feel you trade for Davis if you can).

But don't sweat the math - it's feasible. First you sign your first rounder, then Durant and Irving (in this scenario), and then, 30 days after your first rounder put pen to paper, you aggregate all your remaining contracts, including the first rounder, and trade them for Davis (whose contract would be more expensive, but within the 25% allowable range).

AD only makes 27mil.

The other 2 maxes would be 65-75 mil. depending on years of service.  Cap will be around 110.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 08, 2019, 02:04:59 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on January 27, 2019, 01:35:57 PM
I don't think Burke is part of the plan, but Dotson I kinda like. I'd sacrifice him to move either Courtly or Timmy, because the former isn't useful for us and the pain of the latter's contract outweighs his utility. But I'm not optimistic.


Let's play "Who says no?":

Memphis or Toronto?
Marc Gasol & Ivan Rabb for Jonas Valunciunas, CJ Miles, and two second round picks (Grizz can't take back any more money without ending up in the luxury tax, although they could use Delon Wright. This would be Memphis admitting Gasol has low trade value. Raps would have to convince one of Gasol or Ibaka to come off the bench)

Sacramento or Washington?
Zach Randolph, Iman Shumpert, Kosta Koufos (all expiring) for Otto Porter, Ian Mahinmi and a second round pick (clears >$42 million in cap space for Washington next year, when Wall's contract spikes, and takes them out of the luxury tax this year. Sacto upgrades Shumpert in time for a playoff run, but at a heavy financial price)

San Antonio or Memphis?
Patty Mills, Pau Gasol and Derrick White for Mike Conley and Ivan Rabb (San An rarely makes in-season deals, but Conley-Derozan-Aldridge are all on the same timeline, and Conley just feels like a Pop type player. White is the draw for Memphis, who only have their pick protected top-8 this year and top-6 next year)

Boston or Orlando?
Gordon Hayward and Terry Rozier for Aaron Gordon and DJ Augustin (Boston gets out of the tax and more importantly clarifies the roles going forward for Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum. Marcus Morris gets squeezed, despite an excellent year, but he's a UFA this year. This presumes Boston doesn't want to pay Rozier. Augustin would be an offensive upgrade, and Gordon would be useful as a scorer who didn't need plays run for him. As for Orlando, they'd have to love Rozier as ready to become a Patrick Beverley type starter, but they could think playoffs next year if Hayward improves even slightly)

Philadelphia or New Orleans?
Markelle Fultz, Wilson Chandler and the Miami Heat 2021 unprotected #1 for Nikola Mirotic, Etwaun Moore and a second round pick (NOLA gives up this year, since everyone else knows they aren't making the playoffs, but gives them a roll of the dice for next year in Fultz, either with Davis or as part of post-Davis core with Jrue and Randle or whatever treasure they secure for Davis. The Miami pick is a major trade asset. Philly gets much needed shooting, and perhaps makes themselves the team to beat in the East)

I kinda called it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 08, 2019, 02:16:43 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 08, 2019, 02:03:44 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on February 08, 2019, 11:32:45 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 08, 2019, 09:36:50 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on February 08, 2019, 01:44:36 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 07, 2019, 04:13:41 PM
(the other recetnish movement East was Kawhi for Demar, and Blake to DET)

Thanks, I forgot.


Quote from: Kam on February 07, 2019, 06:38:25 PM
How much more young talent and picks would we need to give NO for a players on an ending deal?

Does Zion, sign and traded Noah Vonleh, and a future 1 get it done?

We don't have bird rights on Vonleh, so no point signing and trading him. He won't be part of the deal.

If we sign Durant and Kyrie to their full amounts and want Davis, ALL of Knox/Ntilikina/DSJ need to go; possibly Dot and Mitch too.

Even if we don't, guessing two of that trio and at least two #1s would need to be included in the deal. In general, I'd rather send out lots of future #1s and keep as many guys as we can, but cap constraints will be very tight if we manage to secure a big 3 of AD/KD/Kyrie. We'd also waive all our rights to Mudiay.

(If it is anyone other than KD we're signing for the max, say, Boogie or Butler, to pair with Kyrie, we'd save enough to keep at least one if not two of the aforementioned trio. DSJ is the most logical to move given his position. If it's anyone other than Kyrie we sign, no change to cap hit).

(And if KD and Kyrie want to be nice, they'll leave a tiny bit of change on the table to help us keep either Knox or more likely Ntilikina)

I am still not sure the money is there for Davis plus two maxes.  A deal for Davis would absorb his deal into our cap after keeping Knox, Mitch, Frank and Dennis.

The money is definitely there - this is simple arithmetic, there's no salary demand from anyone that can change that. It costs us the players listed above, so if someone wants to argue it isn't worth it, a question you raised in a subsequent post, that's a legitimate debate (I, personally, strongly feel you trade for Davis if you can).

But don't sweat the math - it's feasible. First you sign your first rounder, then Durant and Irving (in this scenario), and then, 30 days after your first rounder put pen to paper, you aggregate all your remaining contracts, including the first rounder, and trade them for Davis (whose contract would be more expensive, but within the 25% allowable range).

AD only makes 27mil.

The other 2 maxes would be 65-75 mil. depending on years of service.  Cap will be around 110.

But you have to pay for "incomplete roster" spots (which, depending on how much you strip the team down, could be as high as $7-9 million total), and you have to set aside $6.4 million for Jo Noah and over $1 million for Lance Thomas (presume we kept him to keep in an Anthony Davis trade).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 08, 2019, 02:22:14 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on February 08, 2019, 02:16:43 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 08, 2019, 02:03:44 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on February 08, 2019, 11:32:45 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 08, 2019, 09:36:50 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on February 08, 2019, 01:44:36 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 07, 2019, 04:13:41 PM
(the other recetnish movement East was Kawhi for Demar, and Blake to DET)

Thanks, I forgot.


Quote from: Kam on February 07, 2019, 06:38:25 PM
How much more young talent and picks would we need to give NO for a players on an ending deal?

Does Zion, sign and traded Noah Vonleh, and a future 1 get it done?

We don't have bird rights on Vonleh, so no point signing and trading him. He won't be part of the deal.

If we sign Durant and Kyrie to their full amounts and want Davis, ALL of Knox/Ntilikina/DSJ need to go; possibly Dot and Mitch too.

Even if we don't, guessing two of that trio and at least two #1s would need to be included in the deal. In general, I'd rather send out lots of future #1s and keep as many guys as we can, but cap constraints will be very tight if we manage to secure a big 3 of AD/KD/Kyrie. We'd also waive all our rights to Mudiay.

(If it is anyone other than KD we're signing for the max, say, Boogie or Butler, to pair with Kyrie, we'd save enough to keep at least one if not two of the aforementioned trio. DSJ is the most logical to move given his position. If it's anyone other than Kyrie we sign, no change to cap hit).

(And if KD and Kyrie want to be nice, they'll leave a tiny bit of change on the table to help us keep either Knox or more likely Ntilikina)

I am still not sure the money is there for Davis plus two maxes.  A deal for Davis would absorb his deal into our cap after keeping Knox, Mitch, Frank and Dennis.

The money is definitely there - this is simple arithmetic, there's no salary demand from anyone that can change that. It costs us the players listed above, so if someone wants to argue it isn't worth it, a question you raised in a subsequent post, that's a legitimate debate (I, personally, strongly feel you trade for Davis if you can).

But don't sweat the math - it's feasible. First you sign your first rounder, then Durant and Irving (in this scenario), and then, 30 days after your first rounder put pen to paper, you aggregate all your remaining contracts, including the first rounder, and trade them for Davis (whose contract would be more expensive, but within the 25% allowable range).

AD only makes 27mil.

The other 2 maxes would be 65-75 mil. depending on years of service.  Cap will be around 110.

But you have to pay for "incomplete roster" spots (which, depending on how much you strip the team down, could be as high as $7-9 million total), and you have to set aside $6.4 million for Jo Noah and over $1 million for Lance Thomas (presume we kept him to keep in an Anthony Davis trade).

We can exceed the cap when trading for AD.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 08, 2019, 02:33:47 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on December 24, 2018, 09:19:18 AM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 23, 2018, 09:09:10 PM
If we have Barrett or Reddish to go with KP and Knox, why wouldn't KD consider us?

Exactly.

Leaving the Warriors happens if he's happy with his two or three titles but wants to win somewhere where he, not Curry, is loved/feted/granted the legacy.

For that reason, I don't see the Lakers as a realistic option. Celtics, Heat, Raptors are unlikely because a sign-and-trade won't work.

I would handicap it:

Warriors: 35%
Clippers: 26%
Knicks: 24%
Nets: 5%
Lakers: 5%
Field (Mavs being most likely among this group): 5%

For Klay:

Warriors: 75%
Lakers: 15%
Clippers: 5%
Knicks: 4%
Field: 1%

Kawhi:

Raptors: 40%
Clippers: 40%
Lakers: 15%
Field: 5%

Kemba is the star most likely to leave, in my opinion, since just about any other situation will be better than Charlotte:

Hornets: 30%
Knicks: 25%
Clippers: 20%
Nets: 10%
Lakers: 10%
Field: 5%

Butler:

Sixers: 65%
Clippers: 20%
Lakers: 10%
Field: 5%

Dr Tobias Funke Harris:

Clippers: 70%
Nets: 15%
Knicks: 10%
Field: 5%

UPDATED!

Durant:
Clippers: 30%
Knicks: 30%
Warriors: 25% 
Nets: 10%
Field (Lakers being most likely among this group): 5%

Klay:
Warriors: 80%
Lakers: 15%
Clippers: 4%
Field: 1%

Kawhi:
Clippers: 49% 
Raptors: 40%
Lakers: 10%
Field: 1%

Kemba:
Hornets: 30%
Knicks: 20%
Lakers: 20% 
Nets: 15% 
Clippers: 10%
Field: 15% (Watch Boston if Kyrie leaves)

Butler:
Sixers: 55%
Clippers: 20% 
Nets: 10%
Lakers: 10%
Field: 5%

Harris:
Sixers: 45%
Nets: 35%
Lakers: 10%
Knicks: 5%
Field: 5%

Kyrie:
Celtics: 40%
Knicks: 35%
Clippers: 24%
Field: 1%

Boogie:
Lakers: 25%
Mavs: 20%
Clippers: 20%
Knicks: 10%
Field: 25%

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 08, 2019, 02:36:39 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 08, 2019, 02:22:14 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on February 08, 2019, 02:16:43 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 08, 2019, 02:03:44 PM
AD only makes 27mil.

The other 2 maxes would be 65-75 mil. depending on years of service.  Cap will be around 110.

But you have to pay for "incomplete roster" spots (which, depending on how much you strip the team down, could be as high as $7-9 million total), and you have to set aside $6.4 million for Jo Noah and over $1 million for Lance Thomas (presume we kept him to keep in an Anthony Davis trade).

We can exceed the cap when trading for AD.

Ok, I misunderstood your point. In the scenario I outlined, we'd definitely be exceeding the cap, which is why you have to sequence it by signing the FAs first and then making the trade, rather than the other way around.

(Whereas, if we needed to increase our appeal to Durant/Irving before signing them and didn't think Davis was an option, we might do something like trade Knox + DSJ for Bradley Beal if we knew that would clinch Durant/Irving....if you don't think the Knicks would make that kind of win-now move, you don't know this franchise)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 08, 2019, 03:38:31 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on February 08, 2019, 02:36:39 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 08, 2019, 02:22:14 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on February 08, 2019, 02:16:43 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 08, 2019, 02:03:44 PM
AD only makes 27mil.

The other 2 maxes would be 65-75 mil. depending on years of service.  Cap will be around 110.

But you have to pay for "incomplete roster" spots (which, depending on how much you strip the team down, could be as high as $7-9 million total), and you have to set aside $6.4 million for Jo Noah and over $1 million for Lance Thomas (presume we kept him to keep in an Anthony Davis trade).

We can exceed the cap when trading for AD.

Ok, I misunderstood your point. In the scenario I outlined, we'd definitely be exceeding the cap, which is why you have to sequence it by signing the FAs first and then making the trade, rather than the other way around.

(Whereas, if we needed to increase our appeal to Durant/Irving before signing them and didn't think Davis was an option, we might do something like trade Knox + DSJ for Bradley Beal if we knew that would clinch Durant/Irving....if you don't think the Knicks would make that kind of win-now move, you don't know this franchise)

and even if this is all true - AD would be long gone by then.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 08, 2019, 03:39:56 PM
If we are trading for him,

a)  Say goodbye to ZION/BARRETT

b)  plan on ONE major free agent joining him

c)  dont count on an immediate extension

- Just keepin it real, bro.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 08, 2019, 03:44:39 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 08, 2019, 03:39:56 PM
If we are trading for him,

a)  Say goodbye to ZION/BARRETT

b)  plan on ONE major free agent joining him

c)  dont count on an immediate extension

- Just keepin it real, bro.

A lot of us fans would not make this deal.  But i agree with Biz that the franchise would sacrifice it all for 2 stars.  To say nothing of a BIG 3.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 08, 2019, 05:08:44 PM
We dont have to sacrifice. Thats the point.

I love RJ Barrett.  I dont need to see him excelling with another team (with our luck in our conference) for 10 years.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 08, 2019, 07:48:51 PM
I'm not trading the #1 or #2 pick.

#3?  Open for business.
Title: New Knicknames
Post by: Kam on February 08, 2019, 07:57:15 PM
Mitchell B. Robbin' sons.   
Alonzo Three-er
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 08, 2019, 08:10:44 PM
So, sooooo tough to watch Mario....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 08, 2019, 09:35:54 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 08, 2019, 08:10:44 PM
So, sooooo tough to watch Mario....

Should probably have kept Beasley instead... if we were trying to win a couple more games. 
At l east MB  had a ton of 20 and some 30 point nights.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 08, 2019, 09:49:50 PM
Bulls look mighty good.....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 08, 2019, 09:52:40 PM
Program note

BROW back in lineup

ESPN, still 1st quarter
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 09, 2019, 01:58:02 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 08, 2019, 03:38:31 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on February 08, 2019, 02:36:39 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 08, 2019, 02:22:14 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on February 08, 2019, 02:16:43 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 08, 2019, 02:03:44 PM
AD only makes 27mil.

The other 2 maxes would be 65-75 mil. depending on years of service.  Cap will be around 110.

But you have to pay for "incomplete roster" spots (which, depending on how much you strip the team down, could be as high as $7-9 million total), and you have to set aside $6.4 million for Jo Noah and over $1 million for Lance Thomas (presume we kept him to keep in an Anthony Davis trade).

We can exceed the cap when trading for AD.

Ok, I misunderstood your point. In the scenario I outlined, we'd definitely be exceeding the cap, which is why you have to sequence it by signing the FAs first and then making the trade, rather than the other way around.

(Whereas, if we needed to increase our appeal to Durant/Irving before signing them and didn't think Davis was an option, we might do something like trade Knox + DSJ for Bradley Beal if we knew that would clinch Durant/Irving....if you don't think the Knicks would make that kind of win-now move, you don't know this franchise)

and even if this is all true - AD would be long gone by then.

Haha. "If". This reminds me of last year when you kept insisting we had more second round picks than, you know, all of the internet said we have. This is basically climate change denial. The facts are out there.

And obviously you don't wait to make the AD deal. You make it in principle and wait for the 30 days to pass to finalise it. That part won't be a problem.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 09, 2019, 01:59:34 AM
Quote from: Kam on February 08, 2019, 07:48:51 PM
I'm not trading the #1 or #2 pick.

#3?  Open for business.

Can't get AD unless Zion or RJ goes the other way. Like I said, reasonable people can disagree on whether that is worth it, but it's unreasonable to expect NOLA to agree to a deal otherwise when we already know the Lakers can beat an offer headlined by Knox and DSJ and, say, Jarrett Culver.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 09, 2019, 05:16:23 AM
Apparently NOPe thought about sitting AD the rest of the year, so he doesn't get injured and doesn't muck up the team.  And the League wasn't up for that.
He played but sat the 4Q despite KAT rampaging late and MINN threatening.

Pels have a lot of whozats.  Some guy Williams made a defensive play, then canned a 3, and made another shot.  Kenrich Williams.  24 year old 6'7" undrafted guy.  Been playing great lately.  Last 5 games averaging 35 mins 14.4 Pts, 7.4 Boards & 3 Assists 1.2 Blocks. 
On 49.5% FG and 45% on 3's.  Barely played before the last 6 games.  6 games back he had 16 boards in his first big minute game.

Tim Frazier had a near trip-dub.   Always looks solid to me.  Hustles.
StanJohnson played with his usual effort.  Had a nice drive to the rim, missed a wide open corner 3, picked up an unnecessary foul guarding Wiggins.  Guarded KAT a few times.  Nice awareness on D.  But missed all 3 of his 3's.

Awkward stuff in NO.
I'd be kind of pissed if the best player on my team didn't want to be there and was bailing on the team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 09, 2019, 12:03:13 PM
Be funny if they make the playoffs.
Be funnier if they refuse to trade AD over the summer.
Be funniest if they sign Rondo back away from the Lakers.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 09, 2019, 12:43:23 PM
Kenrich Williams isn't leading them to the playoffs.
They're 5 games out of 8th, with 4 other teams ahead of them trying to bump the Clips out of 8th, where they don't want to be.  Most likely, the LALebrons move into the Top 8.

I like how Kanter sits and no one cares except Kanter.
But the League is willing to force NOPe to play AD.
Guy doesn't want to be on the team.  Team doesn't want him injured. And really minutes are about all the coach has to control the players.
Van Gundy thought it utter BS that they would be forced to play AD. 

First game with WASh, Portis scores 30 in 27 mins off the bench.  While Jabari nears a trip-dub in 23 mins.  Only against the Cavs, but still, nice debuts.

I still don't get what some teams are up to.
DET moved both Bullock and StanJohn.  Left with Canard at SF.
WAS moved Porter and Uber, left with Ariza who won't be back next year.  I get that neither team wanted to pay a lot for those guys coming off rook contracts.  But I'm not sure either gets a big deal.  Uber maybe around $8M - $10M.  StanJohn maybe $5M or $6M.  maybe a lot of money will be sloshing around and they'll wind up with larger deals.  But ti would make more sense if they didn't trade away their starting SF as well.

So after the buyouts go down and get claimed, is anyone going to pick up Melo?  DET or CHA could take a flyer on him.  DET to try to get into the playoffs.  CHA to try to have a puncher's chance.  But my guess is Melo is done.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 09, 2019, 01:39:32 PM
Melo to the Lakers, probably.

Oubre will get more than $10m/per, and Stanley Johnson certainly shouldn't be getting $5m/per. He's never been better than replacement level under two different coaches now (three after he gets squeezed for minutes behind Kung Fu Kenny and Etwaun); I'd be ok with the Knicks signing him for the minimum this summer, but not more. He may get better, but it's not the most likely scenario.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 09, 2019, 02:12:21 PM
In case you missed it, this is sweet: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/05/fashion/weddings/relationship-advice-from-two-who-have-withstood-the-test-of-time-and-rhyme.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/05/fashion/weddings/relationship-advice-from-two-who-have-withstood-the-test-of-time-and-rhyme.html)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 09, 2019, 02:56:30 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 09, 2019, 12:43:23 PM
Kenrich Williams isn't leading them to the playoffs.
They're 5 games out of 8th, with 4 other teams ahead of them trying to bump the Clips out of 8th, where they don't want to be.  Most likely, the LALebrons move into the Top 8.

Ain't talking about Kenrich Williams. They still got AD and Jrue and a bunch of other guys who can play. Actually, they should have won a lot more already. On point differential, they're sitting 7th right now.

You never know how teams react in situations like these, sometimes it's not the obvious way. Not saying likely, but would be fun as hell.

***(and Gentry is 100% getting fired if he doesn't pull off a miracle, and the only miracle he can possibly perform is pulling that team together.)

***(and if they don't, would be fun as hell if they end up with Zion, lol.)

***(sound crazy? Well, to me, 95% chance they don't right now aint that different from the 85% chance we don't right now after all Fiz Fraud's hard work in service of the cause. All that destruction for a 10% difference from a team that actually has AD playing for them right now.)


UPDATE: Hmmm...what'd ya know: http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25960935/anthony-davis-plays-vs-memphis-rest-expectations (http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25960935/anthony-davis-plays-vs-memphis-rest-expectations)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 09, 2019, 05:58:16 PM
Dell Demps, not the league, decided to play AD.

And Davis wants to play - like Kanter.

Knicks MGT took the other road.

Kenrich Williams was on my list pre-draft and I was shocked at his status on draft day.  Good collegian - and SURPRISE - they often make good pros

The other Williams - Frank?  Really - you never heard of him?  UNC?  Scoring point but small for a SG - and doesnt put up the assist numbers

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 09, 2019, 08:05:47 PM
first 5 minutes of this game the best 5 ive seen all year...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 09, 2019, 09:28:13 PM
And now in the 4th, defense and ball movement more often than not, only 9 players, nice. I'm sure it ends as it always ends, but it's been kinda fun.

**** update: as expected, Franchise Record Losing Streak Matched Tonight
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 09, 2019, 10:14:04 PM
I figure Uber will be looking for $12M and will settle for $10M or less.
Still unclear if he's a starter (I think he can be).
As for StanJohn, he plays good defense over 3 or 4 positions, is becoming an effective driver, terrific in the open court, has shown some nascent 3-point ability.  Working towards becoming a 3&D wing.  3/$15M would be a good low risk deal which at least nets you a decent rotation player who could possibly become something more.  If he can hit 3's at a decent clip he'd be very valuable.
I know the NBofA devalues defense, but there's no way he's available at minimum salary.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 09, 2019, 10:33:18 PM
Glad you enjoyed it, Les

I guess you think this cat can coach.  Lets hope the free agents agree.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 09, 2019, 10:53:18 PM
The offense is beyond rudimentary. It was clear from day one that some junk would need to be cleared and new talents assembled. I can see Fizz making the choice to focus on energy, communication, dedication, and relationships rather than x’s and o’s. It definitely makes us an easier team to defend. Hopefully this is something that can be addressed in the lead up to next season.

DJ and Mitch make me miss Kanter not at all.

Smith’s shot was off, but his TO’s were down. He had a hard time trying to cover Green.

I like Allen’s game.

I hope Dot can refocus. He’s definitely in the scouting report now along with drawing heavier defensive assignments. Hopefully the all star break will help him out.

It will be interesting to see what happens when Frank and Mudiay come back.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 09, 2019, 11:33:38 PM
NOPe's point dif looks better than W's for two reasons.  They have fairly competitive starters, but a weak bench has killed them (and they just shipped out Mirotic).The other issue is they don't have a closer, so they don't win close games.  AD is really bad at last possession plays.

Kenrich: 10 / 13 & 7 (though didn't shoot well)
The team was 6-33 on 3's.

At least Gentry figured out that JRusskie is best as a combo guard playing alongside another PG.  Rondo last year made that clear. 

I would have done the AD for Lake pups trade.
If you get Ball, Ingram and Kuzma + a pick or two, I think you've done fine.  Ball & Jrue would be a formidable defensive backcourt.
Not an Ingram fan, but he has talent if he can focus better.  And Kuzma is a legit scorer.  Yeah, the picks likely to be around 20, but still can add players that way.  And you hope Ball fixes his shot and Ingram gets his head straight.  Maybe you can get a killer offer from BOS, but not if AD doesn't plan to re-sign there.  And if Kyrie bolts, then the trade is likely off anyway. 

Once Lakes (reportedly) included Kuz, NO should have pulled the trigger.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 10, 2019, 12:50:42 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 09, 2019, 10:33:18 PM
Glad you enjoyed it, Les

I guess you think this cat can coach.

Well, I wouldn't go that far yet ;)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 10, 2019, 12:56:17 AM
Rustbrook with a quadruple-double (10 turnovers)

Paul George was terrific.  45 points.  18 FTA's
T Fergie looked pretty good.  Active.

Faried made some late hustle plays (blvoked a Grant dunk attamept, scooped up a loose ball and got a TO before Grizzled Adams could tie him up.  But right at the end, Rockettes up 1, Faried came out to double-team Westbrook, who just cut between Faried and Gordon and went in for the go-ahead layup.  Oops.

CP3 almost had a trip-dub, but made mistakes down the stretch.
Lotta mistakes by both teams in the last few minutes,
Btw, game-sealing deflection by Adams on an inbounds with 3.5 secs left.  Rocks needed a 3 to tie, but Gerald Green couldn't corral the pass due to the deflection.  Fun game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 10, 2019, 01:09:41 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 09, 2019, 11:33:38 PM
Once Lakes (reportedly) included Kuz, NO should have pulled the trigger.

I agree.  I think they were just playing the Lakers the whole time and didn't expect the Godfather Offer to come.




Once it came i think they panicked.   


But I can't say that for sure because we don't know what the Politics are of keeping the team in New Orleans.



They might not be able to sell an AD trade to the fanbase season ticket holders BUT
they can sell then on "AD left as a Free Agent though we offered the Super MAX"
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 10, 2019, 01:22:24 AM
AD announced he was leaving.
You get the best return you can get.
With the Lake effect, you get 3 young starters and probably two late 1st round picks down the road.  You've got JRue and Randle.

Ball - JRue - Ingram - Kuz - Randle (at least as good as the team with AD).
Frazier, ETwuan, StanJohn, Kenrich, Sol Hill as your bench for now.
Pick up a C in the off-season -- there's a glut so you can get someone decent for cheap.

 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 10, 2019, 01:38:28 AM
The Pels won’t be in any stronger position than they were at the deadline.

I like the prospect of fuller and wiser Knox and Mitch playing big roles in our frontcourt.

It will be interesting to see who emerges as our most complete guard.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 10, 2019, 04:28:41 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 10, 2019, 01:38:28 AM
I like the prospect of fuller and wiser Knox and Mitch playing big roles in our frontcourt.

In 3 years when they need to get paid.
One problem with drafting young guys (Knox, Franco) and projects (Mitch) is that they usually take a few years to pan out and are then looking to cash in on their next contract before they've proven much.
At this rate, Franc won't be expensive -- and it looks more and more like he won't be here long anyway.  Too early to say much for sure on Knox, but by the time he gets more consistent, adds muscle and grows into his body and learns NBA defense, he'll likely be looking ot get paid before really performing.  Hope I'm wrong and his development is faster than that.  But that all takes time . . .

Everytime I saw Zubac, dating back to last season, he looks good.  But the Lakes brought in TyC (when they already had JaVale), crimping Zubac's minutes.  And then they moved Zubac for Muscala.  Not sure why they didn't trust Zubac.  Young guy with good touch, solid rim protector though a little foul prone at times, fairly mobile, good in the PnR. 

I rather like Muscala.  He has some range that LAL covets (they also brought in Bullock), and I've seen him defend and bound well some games.  But Chicken Muscala is also pretty inconsistent.  Might have a big game one night and then disappear the next. 

Just not sure why the Lakes didn't like Zubac.  Maybe LeBJ feels there are too many yutes and he wants to win now.  But that won't/wouldn't be the case if they pulled off the AD deal.

Really for NO, I would have taken Ball, Ingram, Kuz, Zubac and one 1st rounder if that was available.  Boom, an instant team around Jrue.
A fast rebuild.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 10, 2019, 10:36:29 AM
Not such a no brainer. Maybe they don't like any of those Laker guys that much. Maybe they want good draft picks. Maybe they want Zion instead of four lesser lights or just see who has what in the draft. Maybe they want a season and half of play and what they get in a sign-and-trade. They have a long ass time to trade him. Nobody's ageless, and Lebron is gonna be old as hell by the time AD actually is a free agent.  The only pressure was on the Lakers.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 10, 2019, 11:39:47 AM
I would take Zion or Tatum before any of the Lakers kids.

Bo- that Thunder/Rockets was a fantastic game. Incredible that PG13 is somehow still getting better. OKC likely second seed and Golden State's toughest competition. I don't trust Houston's D, nor Denver's experience.

Speaking of great teams out West - shame Jazz didn't pick up Conley. Had they managed Rubio/Favors/Exum for Conley/J-Mike, I think they could have been the third best team in the West.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 10, 2019, 11:41:21 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on February 10, 2019, 11:39:47 AM
I would take Zion or Tatum before any of the Lakers kids.

....

Speaking of great teams out West - shame Jazz didn't pick up Conley. Had they managed Rubio/Favors/Exum for Conley/J-Mike, I think they could have been the third best team in the West.

Exactly*** ... and indeed.


*** absolutely ZERO problems selling this to the New Orleans fan base, lol: https://deadspin.com/zion-williamson-temporarily-activates-his-flying-abilit-1832506609 (https://deadspin.com/zion-williamson-temporarily-activates-his-flying-abilit-1832506609)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 10, 2019, 12:39:33 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 10, 2019, 12:56:17 AM
Rustbrook with a quadruple-double (10 turnovers)

Paul George was terrific.  45 points.  18 FTA's
T Fergie looked pretty good.  Active.

Faried made some late hustle plays (blvoked a Grant dunk attamept, scooped up a loose ball and got a TO before Grizzled Adams could tie him up.  But right at the end, Rockettes up 1, Faried came out to double-team Westbrook, who just cut between Faried and Gordon and went in for the go-ahead layup.  Oops.

CP3 almost had a trip-dub, but made mistakes down the stretch.
Lotta mistakes by both teams in the last few minutes,
Btw, game-sealing deflection by Adams on an inbounds with 3.5 secs left.  Rocks needed a 3 to tie, but Gerald Green couldn't corral the pass due to the deflection.  Fun game.

Adams play was what Tatum could not do vs LA.  And didn't seem like he tried, sadly

Celtics now a road playoff opener and with a gimpy pg.  Go, Brad. (What has he won again?)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 10, 2019, 01:01:40 PM
Wiz got a good one, but it will cost

https://www.nba.com/bulls/features/bobby-portis-makes-surreal-return-united-center (https://www.nba.com/bulls/features/bobby-portis-makes-surreal-return-united-center)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 10, 2019, 01:31:41 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 10, 2019, 01:22:24 AM
AD announced he was leaving.
You get the best return you can get.
With the Lake effect, you get 3 young starters and probably two late 1st round picks down the road.  You've got JRue and Randle.

Ball - JRue - Ingram - Kuz - Randle (at least as good as the team with AD).
Frazier, ETwuan, StanJohn, Kenrich, Sol Hill as your bench for now.
Pick up a C in the off-season -- there's a glut so you can get someone decent for cheap.

 

I think maybe the other way you do it is to see where you are midseason next year (50 game mark) and then decide whether to deal AD.

Any thought of doing this just drives the price UP for the summer.

Heard Ainge was dangling Rozier for another decent #1...... to add to the offer.  Interesting.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 10, 2019, 03:57:47 PM
this is just about right:

In the end, I think Fiz is like that substitute teacher we all had at one point in school: charismatic, looked the best ever for the first two weeks because he/she wasn’t grilling our asses on homework and tasks while giving us the chance to openly speak our mind in class, we couldn’t stop raving about him/her for finally “freeing us”. Then after a month you realized that substitute teacher couldn’t teach a thing and you were late a month in learning useful (or at the very least exam-necessary) notions, and you’d have to work your ass out double if you wanted to be par on the course. I commend the fact that, in the end, he’s playing a lot our youngsters. I can’t commend anything else about his work in the first 55 games of the season.

http://knickerblogger.net/toronto-raptors-104-new-york-knicks-99-game-recap/ (http://knickerblogger.net/toronto-raptors-104-new-york-knicks-99-game-recap/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 10, 2019, 04:30:45 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 10, 2019, 01:22:24 AM
AD announced he was leaving.

 

KP says he won't resign, and you say the Knicks should've kept him and offered him the money to see if he really turns it down.
AD says he won't resign and you say the Pelicans should have dealt him rather than tempt him with $80 million more.

Can't have it both ways.
Title: Kam(s)ter is right some times
Post by: carlos123 on February 10, 2019, 05:25:23 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 10, 2019, 04:30:45 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 10, 2019, 01:22:24 AM
AD announced he was leaving.

 

KP says he won't resign, and you say the Knicks should've kept him and offered him the money to see if he really turns it down.
AD says he won't resign and you say the Pelicans should have dealt him rather than tempt him with $80 million more.

Can't have it both ways.

Ok, good argument, I’m convinced. Phuck KP and his silly brother.

Now, phuck AD and NO as well. I’d rather keep DJ AND Mitchell, and if we get Zion there’s no way I give him up for AD. I’m not even sure I want KI over Dennis Smith. Now, going after KD and KL with Dolan’s money or even Klay would be sweet.

Then we give Fiz some FO job for his excellent  tanking, get a real coach and we’re all set.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 10, 2019, 07:50:47 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on February 09, 2019, 08:05:47 PM
first 5 minutes of this game the best 5 ive seen all year...

Team defense was on point. DJ  DSJ and Knox delivered on O.

Hezonja and Dotson looked like the game still hasn't slowed down for them yet they managed to contribute to the cohesive whole.

Oh and Vonleh didn't start the game.

---

Methinks we should have dealt NV.  As i doubt he stays a Knick. 

We've had other one-year wonders in the past.  Mike Beasley. Christopher Copeland.  Jerry Lin.   

When you're clearing cap space and have a player playing well on a bad team on an ending deal... try to get something before he leaves or you have to renounce his hold.

Philly has 10 second round picks over the next three years... we couldn't tempt them to part with a couple for Noah?
Title: The other Noah
Post by: Kam on February 10, 2019, 08:23:51 PM
Joakim leading the Grizz to a victory over AD and the Plexicans  -- in 30 minutes off the bench he contributed 19pts 14rebs and 3 assists.
Title: Mitchell B. Robbin'sons last 10 games
Post by: Kam on February 10, 2019, 08:38:00 PM
9.4 ppg 5.8 rpg 2.8 bpg .766 fg%
Title: Re: Mitchell B. Robbin'sons last 10 games
Post by: Kam on February 10, 2019, 08:39:42 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 10, 2019, 08:38:00 PM
9.4 ppg 5.8 rpg 2.8 bpg .766 fg%

in 19.1 minutes while only fouling 2.4 times.

Only thing stopping Mitch is Fiz.
Title: Re: The other Noah
Post by: carlos123 on February 10, 2019, 08:45:27 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 10, 2019, 08:23:51 PM
Joakim leading the Grizz to a victory over AD and the Plexicans  -- in 30 minutes off the bench he contributed 19pts 14rebs and 3 assists.

Yep, Horrible Hornacek poisoned Knicks relationship with Noah just like Fizzy Fizz did with Kanter. Both will contribute on other teams with Dolan’s money. Oh well ... water under that bridge.
Title: Re: The other Noah
Post by: Kam on February 10, 2019, 08:54:06 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 10, 2019, 08:45:27 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 10, 2019, 08:23:51 PM
Joakim leading the Grizz to a victory over AD and the Plexicans  -- in 30 minutes off the bench he contributed 19pts 14rebs and 3 assists.

Yep, Horrible Hornacek poisoned Knicks relationship with Noah just like Fizzy Fizz did with Kanter. Both will contribute on other teams with Dolan’s money. Oh well ... water under that bridge.

NBA players live in an alternate universe.  They're empowered to the Nth degree to the point of misusing that power.
I can't keep mouthing off about my boss at work and complaining to everyone about not getting the most work or best jobs.
Do your job. You get paid. Coach controls minutes.  That's how shit works when shit works right.

Players who fancy themselves in charge of minutes are delusional.
Title: Re: The other Noah
Post by: carlos123 on February 10, 2019, 09:02:03 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 10, 2019, 08:54:06 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 10, 2019, 08:45:27 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 10, 2019, 08:23:51 PM
Joakim leading the Grizz to a victory over AD and the Plexicans  -- in 30 minutes off the bench he contributed 19pts 14rebs and 3 assists.

Yep, Horrible Hornacek poisoned Knicks relationship with Noah just like Fizzy Fizz did with Kanter. Both will contribute on other teams with Dolan’s money. Oh well ... water under that bridge.

NBA players live in an alternate universe.  They're empowered to the Nth degree to the point of misusing that power.
I can't keep mouthing off about my boss at work and complaining to everyone about not getting the most work or best jobs.
Do your job. You get paid. Coach controls minutes.  That's how shit works when shit works right.

Players who fancy themselves in charge of minutes are delusional.

We want Kam(s)ter
We want Kam(s)ter

Chanted the shareholders ... er fans.
Title: Re: The other Noah
Post by: Kam on February 10, 2019, 09:15:49 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 10, 2019, 09:02:03 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 10, 2019, 08:54:06 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 10, 2019, 08:45:27 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 10, 2019, 08:23:51 PM
Joakim leading the Grizz to a victory over AD and the Plexicans  -- in 30 minutes off the bench he contributed 19pts 14rebs and 3 assists.

Yep, Horrible Hornacek poisoned Knicks relationship with Noah just like Fizzy Fizz did with Kanter. Both will contribute on other teams with Dolan’s money. Oh well ... water under that bridge.

NBA players live in an alternate universe.  They're empowered to the Nth degree to the point of misusing that power.
I can't keep mouthing off about my boss at work and complaining to everyone about not getting the most work or best jobs.
Do your job. You get paid. Coach controls minutes.  That's how shit works when shit works right.

Players who fancy themselves in charge of minutes are delusional.

We want Kam(s)ter
We want Kam(s)ter

Chanted the shareholders ... er fans.

Those were Receps goons
Title: Re: Mitchell B. Robbin'sons last 10 games
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 10, 2019, 09:19:48 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 10, 2019, 08:38:00 PM
9.4 ppg 5.8 rpg 2.8 bpg .766 fg%

Mitch looking to be just the second rook since 2000 to get 2 blocks per game.
Title: Re: The other Noah
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 10, 2019, 09:21:07 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 10, 2019, 08:23:51 PM
Joakim leading the Grizz to a victory over AD and the Plexicans  -- in 30 minutes off the bench he contributed 19pts 14rebs and 3 assists.

Could have done just fine here if they had just put him on the court.
Title: Re: The other Noah
Post by: Kam on February 10, 2019, 10:20:20 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 10, 2019, 09:21:07 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 10, 2019, 08:23:51 PM
Joakim leading the Grizz to a victory over AD and the Plexicans  -- in 30 minutes off the bench he contributed 19pts 14rebs and 3 assists.

Could have done just fine here if they had just put him on the court.

Which would have happened eventually.  But he felt the minutes were owed to  him... On a season he started suspended.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 11, 2019, 12:37:29 PM
Anyone see this new film on Netflix High Flying Bird?

It's about basketball, money, race, ownership, directed by Steven Soderbergh, written by the Tarell McCraney (the dude who wrote Moonlight), has great actors and cinematography.......

But it struck me as a bore. Lots of talk, weak story, and a critique that seemed more obvious than revealing.

Wondering what others here think.
Title: Question for the administrator
Post by: newfan on February 11, 2019, 05:53:53 PM
Why was carlos123 banned from this forum?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 11, 2019, 08:31:22 PM
Can't help you, sorry 


heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 11, 2019, 10:57:50 PM
He was usurped by czarlos345?

Yeah, something weird going on.
I was banned indefinitely yesterday, but back today.
My indefinite ban lasted about 24 hours or so.

I emailed josh the admin, but didn't hear back so don't know if that worked.  I couldn't even re-register under a different name as both my browsers showed me as banned and unable to use any function including register.  And my phone couldn't see the captcha code to finish the registration process.  Maybe if I emptied cookies  I could have registered on my PC?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 11, 2019, 11:26:52 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 10, 2019, 04:30:45 PM
KP says he won't resign, and you say the Knicks should've kept him and offered him the money to see if he really turns it down.
AD says he won't resign and you say the Pelicans should have dealt him rather than tempt him with $80 million more.
Can't have it both ways.

Different situations.
Including this season, AD has already banked $94M.
He's got a guaranteed $27M for next year.
With a player option for a further $29M.
He's looking to win as he has already has the money locked in.

KZ has made just $19M including this year.  Sure sounds like a lot, but with nearly half going to taxes, he got about $10M.  You buy a house for $1M or more, gift money to family and spend some on yourself (cars, jewelry, etc) and you could easily be down to $5M or so.  Not really a lifetime of high living. 

KZ needs to cash in.  He also has to worry about his health.  Another injury before signing a new contract would wipe away a potential $130M guaranteed max deal.  Playing on a $7M qo next year would be awfully risky for him.  Extremely unlikely that he'd take a guaranteed 1 year $7M deal instead of a guaranteed $130M deal.  So I'd call his bluff.

Also, I think the team dynamics are different.  AD has been in NO for a long time and wants out.  That kills the teams chance at the playoffs this year and next.  KZ was on a team very much in flux.   I think he could have been sold on a team built around him.  The draft and FA market this Summer would have changed things.  New coach if need be.  So many current Knix won't be back that his wanting out could be easily forgotten, and forgiving giving the losing.

Lastly, NOPe got a big legit offer, with lots of young players coming in order to rebuild.  Knix got cap space and one young player.  Chose to jettison salary and get a weak return for KZ.  If anyone offered Knix 3 good young players for KZ, I would have been interested.

So: 1) KZ needs to cash in.  Couldn't risk a one year deal given his injury (and not having had a big contract yet).  2) Team situations different.  3) NO got a reasonable offer, not the nonsense the Knix dealt for.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 11, 2019, 11:44:23 PM
Banning explained:

Quote from: josh on February 11, 2019, 04:00:22 PM
Quote from: Barton on February 11, 2019, 12:43:20 PM
Josh, when I tried to log in from an android last night and this a.m. I got a "banned" screen.  Looks like someone else got it, too.  Seems to be okay from this desktop.  Is there a problem with IP addresses from mobiles and tablets?

Sorry - I tried to block a ton of spammers all at once and apparently your IP was among those I caught.

I have undone that ban and will see if I can fine tune it or if I am going to have to deal with that one piecemeal.
Title: Re: Question for the administrator
Post by: Kam on February 12, 2019, 12:31:21 AM
Quote from: newfan on February 11, 2019, 05:53:53 PM
Why was carlos123 banned from this forum?

Receps goons got him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 12, 2019, 12:34:17 AM
Quote from: elephant on February 11, 2019, 12:37:29 PM
Anyone see this new film on Netflix High Flying Bird?

It's about basketball, money, race, ownership, directed by Steven Soderbergh, written by the Tarell McCraney (the dude who wrote Moonlight), has great actors and cinematography.......

But it struck me as a bore. Lots of talk, weak story, and a critique that seemed more obvious than revealing.

Wondering what others here think.

I just watched it.  I liked it even though it felt a little too tidy.  Like there were never any real stakes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 12, 2019, 12:40:30 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 11, 2019, 11:26:52 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 10, 2019, 04:30:45 PM
KP says he won't resign, and you say the Knicks should've kept him and offered him the money to see if he really turns it down.
AD says he won't resign and you say the Pelicans should have dealt him rather than tempt him with $80 million more.
Can't have it both ways.

Different situations.
Including this season, AD has already banked $94M.
He's got a guaranteed $27M for next year.
With a player option for a further $29M.
He's looking to win as he has already has the money locked in.

KZ has made just $19M including this year.  Sure sounds like a lot, but with nearly half going to taxes, he got about $10M.  You buy a house for $1M or more, gift money to family and spend some on yourself (cars, jewelry, etc) and you could easily be down to $5M or so.  Not really a lifetime of high living. 

KZ needs to cash in.

KZ already is set for life from his rookie deal. AND the QO would pay him more.  And even if he broke down he would still get some mid level offers for some teams.  He and his brother-wife said they don't care about the money.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 12, 2019, 02:58:09 AM
$5M or $8M savings isn't really set for life, unless you want to live an upper middle class lifestyle.  It doesn't fully secure your children and grandchildren.  Plenty of players have had that much in savings and blew through it or got burned on investments or scammed or were too generous or whatnot, and wound up broke.  The Porzingises seem relatively grounded, but there are probably plenty of scams available in Latvia, especially in the more Russian eastern region.

Perhaps they don't care solely about the money, but when it comes down to another $7M or a guaranteed $130M that becomes just talk.  Posturing.  Yeah, I'd be pretty dang sure taking the $7M QO was an empty threat (especially given the injury history).
Who takes a chance on being able to go through life saying: Well, I could have earned another $125M but I took advice from my brother and then blew out my knee again.

Hell, KZ could sign a $130M max with the Knix (or another team as an RFA, with Knick matching rights) and then complain and say he wants out after another year or whatever if the Knix don't fix themselves and cater to whatever demands he has.  He could probably also engineer a sign-and-trade with the Knix as well (though I'm not up on how that stands under the new, new CBA).
Title: Re: The other Noah
Post by: bodiddley on February 12, 2019, 03:05:24 AM
Quote from: Kam on February 10, 2019, 08:54:06 PM
NBA players live in an alternate universe.  They're empowered to the Nth degree to the point of misusing that power.
I can't keep mouthing off about my boss at work and complaining to everyone about not getting the most work or best jobs.
Do your job. You get paid. Coach controls minutes.  That's how shit works when shit works right.

Players who fancy themselves in charge of minutes are delusional.

It is an alternate universe:
1) Salary guaranteed ... for multiple years ... regardless of performance.
You have any part of that?
2) You're not making more than your boss
3) You're not one of a handful of workers who affect the company's bottom line and image.

Minutes (and rotation spot) are really all a coach controls.  And players have the power to challenge that and foment dissent. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 12, 2019, 03:28:36 AM
Look at it from KZ's POV.

1) He saw how the Knix treated a HOF player in Melo.  How they exiled and treated Noah.  How Kanter got jerked around minutes-wise and became vocally unhappy.  (all of that + KZ's departure can't make FA's that excited to come to Knickland)

2) He's seen what, 3 or 4 coaches, a 2nd management team, a few complete roster turnovers -- all in 3.5 years.  The constant roster flux combined with the way a few key vets were treated (see #1 above) doesn't exactly breed loyalty or trust.

3) Has it ever been clear what his beef was that he blew off the exit meeting with Phil?  But the result was that the Knix openly mused about trading him and fired Longstreet his personal coach.  And with the roster reshuffles he lost teammates and friends (Willy, maybe Kuz, probably others), and obviously didn't feel too connected to this version of the squad.  But moreover, didn't trust the team to do the right thing by him, the team, others.

4) Given all of that and the Knick track record of being poorly run, changing direction frequently, and losing for decades, it's understandable KZ had doubts about the direction and competence of the franchise.  I'd say the crappy trade of a franchise player confirms those suspicions about Knick ineptitude.

I still things fences could have been mended and bridges built and a long term future cemented and whatever other construction metaphors I haven't employed yet.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 12, 2019, 03:31:39 AM
So the Knix had the guy who signed a 10-day contract earlier in the day take the final game-tying shot?  Sure, why not ...?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 12, 2019, 06:18:02 AM
Here's the list of Knick draftees dating back to Chollie Ward and what we did with them instead of extending them.
https://hoopshype.com/2019/02/01/kristaps-porzingis-trade-analysis-new-york-knicks-second-contract/

1) in the 90's the Knicks were usually in the 18-22 range and didn't draft well.  Plus many years had no pick due to trades.

2) From 2004 on (post Sweetney 2003), the Knix drafted well, often late in the draft.  David Lee was extended one year, then sign-and-traded when he required a big contract.  Which I was fine with because his defense was awful and he got overpaid.

3) the Knix frequently flipped promising 3rd year players for aging vets:
Ariza (& Penny) for Stevie Franchise
Frye for Zach
Wil & Gallo for Melo & Billups

4) Landry FieldGoal and Shump (like Mr Lee) outperformed their draft slots, but  weren't worth their next contract.  While Jordan Hill underperformed and was no loss.

5) they should have included Nate and Jerian Grant, draft picks the Knix bought.   While Tim Jr was traded away and then brought back on a rookie extension.  So it's like the Knix gave their draftee a multi-year extension, just after trading him away for two years.

It's really Gallo, Ariza, Frye & Wil who could/should have been extended.  But the Knix were always in a hurry and wanted to bring in some big name vet to Win Now.  Never worked.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on February 12, 2019, 07:09:35 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 11, 2019, 08:31:22 PM
Can't help you, sorry 


heh

Always so gracious, Chico.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on February 12, 2019, 07:10:52 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 11, 2019, 10:57:50 PM
He was usurped by czarlos345?


Good one 😀😅😂🤣
Title: Re: Question for the administrator
Post by: carlos123 on February 12, 2019, 07:11:38 AM
Quote from: Kam on February 12, 2019, 12:31:21 AM
Quote from: newfan on February 11, 2019, 05:53:53 PM
Why was carlos123 banned from this forum?

Receps goons got him.

Pretty good too!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 12, 2019, 09:17:49 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 12, 2019, 03:31:39 AM
So the Knix had the guy who signed a 10-day contract earlier in the day take the final game-tying shot?  Sure, why not ...?

Yeah, that was very special.

Fiz is VERY special.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 12, 2019, 12:52:02 PM
We got a lead taking and 2 tying shots. That’s at least a sign of drawing things up ok.

Quote from: bodiddley on February 12, 2019, 06:18:02 AM
It's really Gallo, Ariza, Frye & Wil who could/should have been extended.  But the Knix were always in a hurry and wanted to bring in some big name vet to Win Now.  Never worked.

And that is some spilled milk truly worth crying over.

DJ Mitch and Kornet seem to have revitalized our big man game. Kadeem Allen is excellent and it hasn’t just been garbage time. He lived a while in the Celtic’s system. It shows.

Vonleh is worth way more than his cap hold.

Allen Trier and DSJ make Mudiay expensive.

Did anyone see enough to get a sense of Jenkins defensively in his 9 minutes?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 12, 2019, 02:35:13 PM
https://twitter.com/KnickFilmSchool/status/1095328450385195009 (https://twitter.com/KnickFilmSchool/status/1095328450385195009)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 12, 2019, 02:54:09 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 12, 2019, 02:58:09 AM
Yeah, I'd be pretty dang sure taking the $7M QO was an empty threat (especially given the injury history).
Who takes on a chance on being able to go through life saying: Well, I could have earned another $125M but I took advice from my brother and then blew out my knee again.

Hell, KZ could sign a $130M max with the Knix (or another team as an RFA, with Knick matching rights) and then complain and say he wants out after another year or whatever if the Knix don't fix themselves and cater to whatever demands he has.  He could probably also engineer a sign-and-trade with the Knix as well (though I'm not up on how that stands under the new, new CBA).

You are using your value system on a Latvian.

But even if you are correct and they're all about the money.... why the F did they POSTURE at all?

Fizdale took his wife to LAtvia to meet these fools who, couple months later are commenting "THIS IS #! BULLSHIT" to a Fizdale quote


WHAT HAPPENED?  WHY POSTURE? WHY POST SUCH AN AGGRESSIVE RESPONSE to FIZ?

FUCKING DOUCHES.   If you're happy and injured STFU.  If you're unhappy and injured STFU.

Get back on the court and then talk.

They were assholez who provoked the whole thing.   No FO trades a happy non-injured superstar.
Title: Re: The other Noah
Post by: Kam on February 12, 2019, 03:01:32 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 12, 2019, 03:05:24 AM


Minutes (and rotation spot) are really all a coach controls. 

EXACTLY! 

Let Dad Drive?

KP played zero minutes under Fiz.  Not because of Fiz restricitng his minutes.

Quote
And players have the power to challenge that and foment dissent.

Fuck no.  What the hell is this?  Iz Kz Michael Jordanz?  Majicz Jaahnsan? 

Get out of here if you're unhappy. 

Knicks were supposed to keep a guy who wasn't recruiting others to come?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 12, 2019, 03:04:11 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on February 12, 2019, 09:17:49 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 12, 2019, 03:31:39 AM
So the Knix had the guy who signed a 10-day contract earlier in the day take the final game-tying shot?  Sure, why not ...?

Yeah, that was very special.

Fiz is VERY special.

He was hot.  His skill is sharpshooter.   What do you want?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 12, 2019, 03:06:15 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 12, 2019, 06:18:02 AM

It's really Gallo, Ariza, Frye & Wil who could/should have been extended.  But the Knix were always in a hurry and wanted to bring in some big name vet to Win Now.  Never worked.

That's not a great team either.  Never more than a 5 seed and the wheel of mediocrity.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 12, 2019, 03:09:22 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 12, 2019, 02:35:13 PM
https://twitter.com/KnickFilmSchool/status/1095328450385195009 (https://twitter.com/KnickFilmSchool/status/1095328450385195009)

Don't let Lester see this.  He thinks players only develop on winning teams.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 12, 2019, 03:21:22 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 12, 2019, 03:06:15 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 12, 2019, 06:18:02 AM

It's really Gallo, Ariza, Frye & Wil who could/should have been extended.  But the Knix were always in a hurry and wanted to bring in some big name vet to Win Now.  Never worked.

That's not a great team either.  Never more than a 5 seed and the wheel of mediocrity.

You dont ever know this for sure.  Right coach, right band of teammates.....anything can happen with a team good enough to be a 5.

By the way - why are you doiscounting totally the Fizdale commentary on Porzingis's rehab?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 12, 2019, 03:28:16 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 12, 2019, 03:21:22 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 12, 2019, 03:06:15 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 12, 2019, 06:18:02 AM

It's really Gallo, Ariza, Frye & Wil who could/should have been extended.  But the Knix were always in a hurry and wanted to bring in some big name vet to Win Now.  Never worked.

That's not a great team either.  Never more than a 5 seed and the wheel of mediocrity.

You dont ever know this for sure.  Right coach, right band of teammates.....anything can happen with a team good enough to be a 5.

By the way - why are you doiscounting totally the Fizdale commentary on Porzingis's rehab?

Did Fizz say anything BAD about KP?  He said he was doing only light running. Is that such an insult? 
Could not KP have just posted  "Actually.... here's a photo of me running hard, coach"
"this is #1 bullshit"  They didn't teach that in the Rookie Symposium.   That's a dick move.
You talk to your coach with that mouth?

Or was KZ hoping that other teams would prepare offers for him if he showed his health?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 12, 2019, 03:40:25 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 12, 2019, 03:09:22 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 12, 2019, 02:35:13 PM
https://twitter.com/KnickFilmSchool/status/1095328450385195009 (https://twitter.com/KnickFilmSchool/status/1095328450385195009)

Don't let Lester see this.  He thinks players only develop on winning teams.

There are two possible outcomes when you open your mouth.
You say something that's a lie or you say something incredibly stupid.
Actually three. Both.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 12, 2019, 04:01:31 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 12, 2019, 03:28:16 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 12, 2019, 03:21:22 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 12, 2019, 03:06:15 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 12, 2019, 06:18:02 AM

It's really Gallo, Ariza, Frye & Wil who could/should have been extended.  But the Knix were always in a hurry and wanted to bring in some big name vet to Win Now.  Never worked.

That's not a great team either.  Never more than a 5 seed and the wheel of mediocrity.

You dont ever know this for sure.  Right coach, right band of teammates.....anything can happen with a team good enough to be a 5.

By the way - why are you doiscounting totally the Fizdale commentary on Porzingis's rehab?

Did Fizz say anything BAD about KP?  He said he was doing only light running. Is that such an insult? 
Could not KP have just posted  "Actually.... here's a photo of me running hard, coach"
"this is #1 bullshit"  They didn't teach that in the Rookie Symposium.   That's a dick move.
You talk to your coach with that mouth?

Or was KZ hoping that other teams would prepare offers for him if he showed his health?

hahaha    -   ya think?

Plan was ALWAYS for Porzingis to PLAY this year.  And to comeback to a team that could make a playoff run.  The TANKING was impossible for him to stomach.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 12, 2019, 04:33:40 PM
https://jmoneysports.com/2019/02/12/the-jimmer-fredette-tracker-2018-19-game-36-fredette-has-monster-all-around-performance-in-biggest-win-of-the-year/ (https://jmoneysports.com/2019/02/12/the-jimmer-fredette-tracker-2018-19-game-36-fredette-has-monster-all-around-performance-in-biggest-win-of-the-year/)

15 40-point games for Jimmer.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 12, 2019, 08:20:46 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 12, 2019, 04:01:31 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 12, 2019, 03:28:16 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 12, 2019, 03:21:22 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 12, 2019, 03:06:15 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 12, 2019, 06:18:02 AM

It's really Gallo, Ariza, Frye & Wil who could/should have been extended.  But the Knix were always in a hurry and wanted to bring in some big name vet to Win Now.  Never worked.

That's not a great team either.  Never more than a 5 seed and the wheel of mediocrity.

You dont ever know this for sure.  Right coach, right band of teammates.....anything can happen with a team good enough to be a 5.

By the way - why are you doiscounting totally the Fizdale commentary on Porzingis's rehab?

Did Fizz say anything BAD about KP?  He said he was doing only light running. Is that such an insult? 
Could not KP have just posted  "Actually.... here's a photo of me running hard, coach"
"this is #1 bullshit"  They didn't teach that in the Rookie Symposium.   That's a dick move.
You talk to your coach with that mouth?

Or was KZ hoping that other teams would prepare offers for him if he showed his health?

hahaha    -   ya think?

Plan was ALWAYS for Porzingis to PLAY this year.  And to comeback to a team that could make a playoff run.  The TANKING was impossible for him to stomach.

We were tanking because he was hurt.   We wanted him to come back, show he can play and recruit. 

Porzingis never wanted to play this year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 12, 2019, 08:22:01 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on February 12, 2019, 03:40:25 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 12, 2019, 03:09:22 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 12, 2019, 02:35:13 PM
https://twitter.com/KnickFilmSchool/status/1095328450385195009 (https://twitter.com/KnickFilmSchool/status/1095328450385195009)

Don't let Lester see this.  He thinks players only develop on winning teams.

There are two possible outcomes when you open your mouth.
You say something that's a lie or you say something incredibly stupid.
Actually three. Both.

I keep my mouth closed whilst typing
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 12, 2019, 10:01:47 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 12, 2019, 08:20:46 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 12, 2019, 04:01:31 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 12, 2019, 03:28:16 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 12, 2019, 03:21:22 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 12, 2019, 03:06:15 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 12, 2019, 06:18:02 AM

It's really Gallo, Ariza, Frye & Wil who could/should have been extended.  But the Knix were always in a hurry and wanted to bring in some big name vet to Win Now.  Never worked.

That's not a great team either.  Never more than a 5 seed and the wheel of mediocrity.

You dont ever know this for sure.  Right coach, right band of teammates.....anything can happen with a team good enough to be a 5.

By the way - why are you doiscounting totally the Fizdale commentary on Porzingis's rehab?

Did Fizz say anything BAD about KP?  He said he was doing only light running. Is that such an insult? 
Could not KP have just posted  "Actually.... here's a photo of me running hard, coach"
"this is #1 bullshit"  They didn't teach that in the Rookie Symposium.   That's a dick move.
You talk to your coach with that mouth?

Or was KZ hoping that other teams would prepare offers for him if he showed his health?

hahaha    -   ya think?

Plan was ALWAYS for Porzingis to PLAY this year.  And to comeback to a team that could make a playoff run.  The TANKING was impossible for him to stomach.

We were tanking because he was hurt.   We wanted him to come back, show he can play and recruit. 

Porzingis never wanted to play this year.

heh

gonna start calling you MAK...........(backwards ass.....)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 12, 2019, 10:14:20 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 12, 2019, 10:01:47 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 12, 2019, 08:20:46 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 12, 2019, 04:01:31 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 12, 2019, 03:28:16 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 12, 2019, 03:21:22 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 12, 2019, 03:06:15 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 12, 2019, 06:18:02 AM

It's really Gallo, Ariza, Frye & Wil who could/should have been extended.  But the Knix were always in a hurry and wanted to bring in some big name vet to Win Now.  Never worked.

That's not a great team either.  Never more than a 5 seed and the wheel of mediocrity.

You dont ever know this for sure.  Right coach, right band of teammates.....anything can happen with a team good enough to be a 5.

By the way - why are you doiscounting totally the Fizdale commentary on Porzingis's rehab?

Did Fizz say anything BAD about KP?  He said he was doing only light running. Is that such an insult? 
Could not KP have just posted  "Actually.... here's a photo of me running hard, coach"
"this is #1 bullshit"  They didn't teach that in the Rookie Symposium.   That's a dick move.
You talk to your coach with that mouth?

Or was KZ hoping that other teams would prepare offers for him if he showed his health?

hahaha    -   ya think?

Plan was ALWAYS for Porzingis to PLAY this year.  And to comeback to a team that could make a playoff run.  The TANKING was impossible for him to stomach.

We were tanking because he was hurt.   We wanted him to come back, show he can play and recruit. 

Porzingis never wanted to play this year.

heh

gonna start calling you MAK...........(backwards ass.....)

ok SSA
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 13, 2019, 12:04:40 AM
Quote from: Kam on February 12, 2019, 02:54:09 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 12, 2019, 02:58:09 AM
Yeah, I'd be pretty dang sure taking the $7M QO was an empty threat (especially given the injury history).
Who takes on a chance on being able to go through life saying: Well, I could have earned another $125M but I took advice from my brother and then blew out my knee again.

You are using your value system on a Latvian.

But even if you are correct and they're all about the money.... why the F did they POSTURE at all?

Fizdale took his wife to LAtvia to meet these fools who, couple months later are commenting "THIS IS #! BULLSHIT" to a Fizdale quote

WHAT HAPPENED?  WHY POSTURE? WHY POST SUCH AN AGGRESSIVE RESPONSE to FIZ?

In my experience, people in post-communist, post-Marxist societies understand the value of wealth accumulation and often have a get it while you can mentality towards money (as you don't know when the opp will no longer be there).  Latvia has been independent for less than 30 years.  His parents lived under the old commie regime.

Latvia in particular is in a somewhat precarious position, as it has a sizeable Russian population in the East, and Russia has used that as an excuse to foment separatism and invade in the cases of Moldova (look up Transnistria)  and Ukraine (Crimea & Donbass) and Georgia (South Ossetia & Abkazia).  Now Latvia is a member of NATO, but does anyone think Trump would go to war with Russia over Latvia?  Even the phrase "go to war with Russia" is mindboggling.  Russia doesn't need more Western sanctions.  But Putin could meddle in Latvia, stir up grievances and encourage separatism, and then use irregular Russian troops to go in and cause trouble (as was done in eastern Ukraine).

I'm getting a little away from KZ, but the moral of the story is accumulate wealth while you can, secure a US green card, and you have contingency plans in case things go awry in your country. 

NATO membership valuable enough, Macedonia just changed its name to get in, and get its protections from Russia (after significant Russian meddling there).  Though they also want to enter the EU as well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 13, 2019, 12:19:30 AM
Fizz going to Latvia is a nice get acquainted gesture, but not much more.

It is a good question why KZ & bro were so down on the Knix.
I laid some grievances out.  Lack of winning, lack of direction, mistreating players, petty disputes with KZ (and others).

I was fine with trading Gallo & Wil for Melo.  We gave up a lot, but got a star player in his prime.  Both turned out to be injury prone, and we sort of knew/suspected that about Gallo.  Though it would have been nice to build around Gallo & Wil.

I'm more bothered by ditching Frye and Ariza for aging vets.
Ariza has had a good long career and never a huge contract.  A 2 way, 3&D glue guy of the type Knix never have.  Very good complementary piece.  Frye has had a solid career.

Extending your rooks provides stability to your roster and direction to your team and a commitment from fans.  Hopefully Knox will remain with us a long time.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 13, 2019, 01:13:09 AM
Quote from: Kam on February 12, 2019, 03:06:15 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 12, 2019, 06:18:02 AM

It's really Gallo, Ariza, Frye & Wil who could/should have been extended.  But the Knix were always in a hurry and wanted to bring in some big name vet to Win Now.  Never worked.

That's not a great team either.  Never more than a 5 seed and the wheel of mediocrity.

The Ariza trade was terrible, the Frye move didn't make any sense either. But I've not changed my mind on the Melo deal, still think it was the right move and would have worked had the Knicks been smarter afterwards. So I'm not sweating Gallo or Chandler.

(Just saw Bo said the same!)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 13, 2019, 01:16:39 AM
Kam - I'm with you that Janis & KP seemed to have been running their mouth unnecessarily. But I think it would still have been salvageable. I wish had been salvaged. Given the whole situation I can see why the Knicks made the trade and the return is actually pretty good, but the ideal scenario was kiss-and-make-up (unless the Knicks have intel that they're signing two all stars)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 13, 2019, 09:24:10 AM
Ideal scenario was to use KP to deal up to get Dokic.

Only one of us was considering a deal of KP way back then.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 13, 2019, 09:47:57 AM

Updated mock 2/9 (this past Saturday)

https://www.nbadraft.net/2019mock_draft

I dont think we take the #2 Marant now that we have Smith Jr.

Hachimura is at #4......

Likely Knicks go Williamson, Barrett, then if both are gone consider taking Hachi or Fernando, maybe dealing down and getting either of them or a SG.

Not sure I take Reddish at 3 if we drop that low.

For sake of simplicity, top 2 is of course what we seek - and I'd be keeping the player.  Then you can look at/discuss all the AD deals you like using that draft position.  We of course become more willing to deal out of #3 or down for Davis.  Maybe New O likes Marant..
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on February 13, 2019, 09:53:27 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 13, 2019, 09:24:10 AM
Ideal scenario was to use KP to deal up to get Dokic.

Only one of us was considering a deal of KP way back then.
Was it the same guy who thinks Jimmer Fredette is an NBA player?  Curious minds want to know.     
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 13, 2019, 11:05:57 AM
Fredette has already played five NBA seasons
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on February 13, 2019, 11:09:48 AM
IS IS IS IS IS IS IS
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 13, 2019, 11:10:06 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 13, 2019, 09:47:57 AM

Updated mock 2/9 (this past Saturday)

https://www.nbadraft.net/2019mock_draft

I dont think we take the #2 Marant now that we have Smith Jr.

Hachimura is at #4......

Likely Knicks go Williamson, Barrett, then if both are gone consider taking Hachi or Fernando, maybe dealing down and getting either of them or a SG.

Not sure I take Reddish at 3 if we drop that low.

For sake of simplicity, top 2 is of course what we seek - and I'd be keeping the player.  Then you can look at/discuss all the AD deals you like using that draft position.  We of course become more willing to deal out of #3 or down for Davis.  Maybe New O likes Marant..

This is a pretty terrible draft site, tbh. There's so much good stuff out there on the draft.

A few quick thoughts:

-These guys don't even have Grant Williams, which is an egregious omission.

-Knicks are not going to consider Rui Hachimura at the #3 or #4 pick, that's absolutely ridiculous. For starters, he's going to be viewed as Kevin Knox but much poorer defensively and much poorer passer (seriously)

-Bruno Fernando as the first 5 off the board and at #7 no less isn't happening

- Garland isn't falling to 15th overall (although I think he has high bust potential, he'll go higher than that. It's a poor draft with no scoring point guard options)

- Jontay isn't likely to fall to the 20s unless his knee is way more wrecked than people know, and this isn't the site that would know that. 

The whole thing is riddled with misleading rankings.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 13, 2019, 11:32:17 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on February 13, 2019, 01:13:09 AM
Quote from: Kam on February 12, 2019, 03:06:15 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 12, 2019, 06:18:02 AM

It's really Gallo, Ariza, Frye & Wil who could/should have been extended.  But the Knix were always in a hurry and wanted to bring in some big name vet to Win Now.  Never worked.

That's not a great team either.  Never more than a 5 seed and the wheel of mediocrity.

We wont make the mistake again

Dealing Galinari to get Melo.......

Dealing Williamson to get Davis....

Keep your young players

ADD

GROW

WIN

If a guy cant really play that's a different story.  If you make a determination that said player wont help you much beyond a replacement level guy......

This type decision with Frank is pending.




The Ariza trade was terrible, the Frye move didn't make any sense either. But I've not changed my mind on the Melo deal, still think it was the right move and would have worked had the Knicks been smarter afterwards. So I'm not sweating Gallo or Chandler.

(Just saw Bo said the same!)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 13, 2019, 11:44:34 AM
I'm conflicted but my feeling is this: It would be most fun to keep Zion, he has the potential to be transformational. But if trading him is what is required to not only get Brow but convince Kyrie and Durant to sing, you do it, especially if you're able to move the other rookie contract guys for value somewhere other than New Orleans (ie trade them all for future first round picks).

That big 3 is better than keeping Zion and using our money on Eric Bledsoe, Bobby Portis and Delon Wright.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 13, 2019, 12:56:26 PM
We have Smith.  Bledsoe not in that mix.  Kyrie would be if he was coming with a second player.

Might be more like

Smith
Knox
HARRIS
ZION
DeAndre
Mitch
Frank
(maybe VONLEH)
**add a player at 15-20 mil per.**
add 7 other low salaried players  that fit the cap.

I like this team.....
and I LOVE the position we would be in at next year's deadline, with all those picks and youngsters
Keep 6 other first round draft picks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 13, 2019, 01:01:34 PM
Or

Smith
Knox
Mitch
Frank
ZION
DURANT
- and whatever else (including a second big $$ guy) -
plus the six picks, some of which we would likely use to add players KD likes.

"Guys like KD are NOT going anywhere to play with young kids" - I have heard.

Let's test that out.

If KD comes to NY outright he is immediately a GOD for not making us deal the entire franchise for him in a S and T.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 13, 2019, 01:33:03 PM
yup, yup
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 13, 2019, 02:53:38 PM
I think if the Lakers and Lebron miss the playoffs this year, Durant might be somewhat dissuaded from coming alone to play with a bunch of kids.

And I think that was part of the logic behind creating the second max slot.

And I think the Knicks are far more likely to trade the pick then keep it based on the implied priorities of the organisation.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 13, 2019, 05:11:20 PM
As much as I've recently admitted clutching on to the ongoing fantasy of the Knicks attracting top players — and I'm still clutching to that fantasy, unless you got something better — wiser commentators than I have asked: Why would these luminaries come to a losing, fucked-up organization?

And the answer that always emerges is the chestnut about how they would become a GOD in New York and so on.

Painful shit.

We might observe (again) that all the illustrious free agents will have plenty of choices. Indeed most of them are already on strong, winning teams. If they stay put, they will be going deep in the playoffs for as long as they like. But there are up-and-coming teams that offer plenty of promise to an NBA superstar. Are the Knicks really among them? A team losing at a historic rate? A chronic loser?

Bad play....and bad mojo.

If we keep losing, by God, we've got a 14% chance to pick Zion! It's insane to salivate at odds so shitty. And yet the young man's name keeps coming up in this forum.

So maybe this is all a way of observing that Knicks fans slather their desires with a coating of reason and analysis. But it's essentially a dreamscape, nourished by hope, prayer....and little else.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 13, 2019, 07:35:45 PM
At least we have the Yankees and the Giants as Winning Franchises.  (welll... not lately)
Title: DeAndre can stay
Post by: Kam on February 13, 2019, 07:53:02 PM
He has old school knicks DNA
Title: Portland for Kanter
Post by: Kam on February 13, 2019, 08:10:58 PM
Enes signs with Portlandia
Title: Daaaaaaaaaaamn
Post by: Kam on February 13, 2019, 08:37:17 PM
Kevin Knox hangs a POSTER on Ben Simmons
Title: Keep on robbin son
Post by: Kam on February 13, 2019, 09:55:48 PM
Mitch rejects Embiid!
Title: Again!
Post by: Kam on February 13, 2019, 09:58:36 PM
Blocks Embiid....


Embiid fouls him with an elbow   (EDIT: Looks like it was a blatant elbow to send a message)



Blocks Embiid AGAIN!  (Message not delivered)


EMBIITCH
Title: Enes Who?
Post by: Kam on February 13, 2019, 10:03:22 PM
14  Points
13  Rebounds
3    Blocks
2    Steals
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 13, 2019, 10:09:17 PM
Latvian Heritage night  -- cancelled!  Thats an unnecessary "Fuck You" to David Bertans!  The BEST Latvian in the NBA. 

When's Turk night?
Title: Turk Night
Post by: carlos123 on February 13, 2019, 10:22:27 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 13, 2019, 10:09:17 PM
Latvian Heritage night  -- cancelled!  Thats an unnecessary "Fuck You" to David Bertans!  The BEST Latvian in the NBA. 

Q: When's Turk night?
A: When Recep buys Knicks thru Kam(s)ter LLC.
Title: 97 points
Post by: Kam on February 13, 2019, 10:42:43 PM
For Philly's Starters
Title: Re: Turk Night
Post by: Kam on February 13, 2019, 10:43:32 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 13, 2019, 10:22:27 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 13, 2019, 10:09:17 PM
Latvian Heritage night  -- cancelled!  Thats an unnecessary "Fuck You" to David Bertans!  The BEST Latvian in the NBA. 

Q: When's Turk night?
A: When Recep buys Knicks thru Kam(s)ter LLC.


Good one!  Atta-turk.
Title: Re: Daaaaaaaaaaamn
Post by: Kam on February 13, 2019, 10:52:38 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 13, 2019, 08:37:17 PM
Kevin Knox hangs a POSTER on Ben Simmons

In case you missed it...

http://www.espn.com/core/video/iframe?id=25991647 (http://www.espn.com/core/video/iframe?id=25991647)

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 13, 2019, 11:15:47 PM
Quote
Giannis Antetokounmpo's agent, Giorgos Panou, reveals in the ‘Finding Giannis' documentary that the Knicks were the one team that didn't send a scout or team staffer to see Antetokounmpo in Greece before the 2013 NBA Draft. The Knicks selected Tim Hardaway Jr. with the 24th pick in that draft. It's surprising, though, that New York wouldn't do its due diligence and see Antetokounmpo in person.

Hmm.  And Knix have been good at Euro-scouting.
Greek went #15 & Knix had the #24 pick, but you can always trade up especially mid-round.  Or a guy can drop unexpectedly.

Also, after Tim, the next 3 picks were Reg Bullocks, Andre Roberson, Rudy GoBear.  Obviously Gobert is the prize there.  Bullocks has transformed himself into a solid wing, after early career struggles.  Roberson a premier defender with no shot, and has been injury prone lately. 

It was a strange draft with a very weak Top 9.
Only Otto Porter and Oladipo have panned out. 
10-18 was better than the Top 9.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2013.html
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 13, 2019, 11:52:07 PM
NOEL sporting a  19.2 PER

Caldwell-Pope is a player

Zeller doing just fine - 14, 10 and 3 per 36.  56/79 shooting

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 14, 2019, 12:29:41 AM
https://twitter.com/barstoolsports/status/1095753532240740357 (https://twitter.com/barstoolsports/status/1095753532240740357)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 14, 2019, 01:20:04 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 13, 2019, 11:52:07 PM
NOEL sporting a  19.2 PER

The new Jordan Hill!
He plays 14 mins a night.

Quote
Caldwell-Pope is a player

The new Courtney Lee!
Adequate but too passive.
Lakes need outside shooting and defense and yet were looking into trading KCP ...

Quote
Zeller doing just fine - 14, 10 and 3 per 36.  56/79 shooting

Fuzzy is allright.  Sets good screens.  Plays hard.  Not exactly high pick worthy, but yeah, fine.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 14, 2019, 02:10:51 AM
GS meltdown (courtesy of Dray with assist form Klay and Kerr) led to an 8 point play.  Dray gave a hard foul to unexpected GS antagonist Zach Collins.  These days it gets looked at and becomes a flagrant foul.  Kerr goes nuts and gets tossed.  So it's 2 tech FT's from Kerr, apparently another T on Dray, and 2 FT's and the ball for POR.  Dame Lillard makes 3 Techs FT's, Zach a pair of FT for the foul, and POR gets the ball back with Layman canning a 3.

So a 7 point POR lead with 4 mins left becomes a 15 point lead after one possession.  8 point play!

POR bench won the game.  McCollum never even got back in.
Layman with 17 (the player GS kept leaving open), Seth Curry with 11 and burned his bro a couple times (especially a driving layup and hustling down a long rebound), feisty Zach Collins 3 blocks and nice hustle and riled up the Warriors.

Klay 2-16 FG and let Zach get under his skin. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 14, 2019, 06:59:01 AM
I am sure you feel Collins is a failed pick as well.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 14, 2019, 11:09:59 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 14, 2019, 06:59:01 AM
I am sure you feel Collins is a failed pick as well.

Collins is interesting.  Usually scrappy when I see him.  But he plays limited minutes and is up/down.  Too early to tell if he's a future starter or a bench guy.  He's young and has improved nicely over his iffy rook year.  Not a bad player to have drafted, but jury's still out.

For a #10 pick, that's okay, but not great.  This Lillard-McCollum-Nurkic team could have used a more NBA-ready yute.

There's at least a half dozen other 1st rounders in that class who are better:  Don Mitchell, the other Collins (John), Kuzma, Justin Jax, Jarrett Allen, OG, Bam.  [13, 19, 27, 15, 22, 23, 14 respectively]
That's 7.  Monk, Kennard, DJ Wilson might be around his level too.

A very solid draft.
Derrick White, Josh Hart and T Ferguson are all stepping up this year[29, 30; 21].  Giles a real wildcard at #20 .  And it was super deep, as the 2nd round could set a record for the number of player to stick 3 years or more in the League.  Kadeem Allen was the #53 pick; Dotson #44.

Btw, Zach was taken 2 picks after Franc and directly after Dennis Jr.
Title: Re: Daaaaaaaaaaamn
Post by: LarryBnDC on February 14, 2019, 12:55:12 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 13, 2019, 10:52:38 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 13, 2019, 08:37:17 PM
Kevin Knox hangs a POSTER on Ben Simmons

In case you missed it...

http://www.espn.com/core/video/iframe?id=25991647 (http://www.espn.com/core/video/iframe?id=25991647)

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2019/02/joel-embiid-regina-king
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 14, 2019, 02:58:22 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 14, 2019, 11:09:59 AM


Btw, Zach was taken 2 picks after Franc and directly after Dennis Jr.



Uh huh......

Collect those first rounders, SP.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 14, 2019, 04:03:18 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 14, 2019, 11:09:59 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 14, 2019, 06:59:01 AM
I am sure you feel Collins is a failed pick as well.

There's at least a half dozen other 1st rounders in that class who are better:  Don Mitchell, the other Collins (John), Kuzma, Justin Jax, Jarrett Allen, OG, Bam.  [13, 19, 27, 15, 22, 23, 14 respectively]
That's 7.  Monk, Kennard, DJ Wilson might be around his level too.

Give me Zach Collins over Justin Jackson, Monk, Kennard or DJ Wilson. But the rest are all fantastic picks outside of the lottery.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 14, 2019, 06:23:51 PM
Some of these guys are 21-22 years old

Too early.

Of course teams like their guys to at least be good enough to help in a trade or to re-sign.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 14, 2019, 08:34:03 PM
Interesting about the wait for Harry Giles' emergence -

Harry was the absolute best prep player in the nation when he was 16/17

Hiiiiiiiigh ceiling
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 14, 2019, 10:03:17 PM
Just win baby!

3 wins vs ATL this season
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 14, 2019, 11:20:14 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on February 14, 2019, 04:03:18 PM

Quote from: bodiddley on February 14, 2019, 11:09:59 AM
There's at least a half dozen other 1st rounders in that class who are better:  Don Mitchell, the other Collins (John), Kuzma, Justin Jax, Jarrett Allen, OG, Bam.  [13, 19, 27, 15, 22, 23, 14 respectively]
That's 7.  Monk, Kennard, DJ Wilson might be around his level too.

Give me Zach Collins over Justin Jackson, Monk, Kennard or DJ Wilson. But the rest are all fantastic picks outside of the lottery.

My mistake, I was thinking Jaren Jackson.
Justin Jax has been underwhelming, just bench material.  Tossed into a trade already.
Too many Jacksons the past few years going to small market teams.

Yeah, that's where I had Zach as well, behind a half dozen later choices and slightly ahead of Monk, Kennard, DJ.  I'd also agree that it's too early to say too much about any of them.  DJ & Zach both looked overwhelmed their rook year but have made strides this year. 

Overall, I'd say Zach wasn't a good pick at #10 given POR needed a ready player not a standard slow developer, and there were a half dozen starter-level options still on board.  John Collins, Bam OG, Kuzma would have fit there real well.

Unfortunately in that stacked draft, Franc is looking like a blown pick.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 14, 2019, 11:33:23 PM
Looks like that was John Collins worst game as a pro.
Only his 3rd single digit game, and the other two were back in Nov.
Also his lowest rebound (and assist) game.


Nerlens Xmas with 22 & 13 (8 o-boards) in 22 mins.
I guess he went up against Jah Okafor and his 12 & 8 in 23 mins.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 15, 2019, 12:09:18 AM
I have never heard of DJ Wilson.  Drawback on JusJax is that he is a bit older.  Career of course is young.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 15, 2019, 01:38:41 AM
Quote from: Kam on February 14, 2019, 10:03:17 PM
Just win baby!

3 wins vs ATL this season

Hope we draw them in the playoffs this year!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 15, 2019, 01:58:55 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 15, 2019, 12:09:18 AM
I have never heard of DJ Wilson.  Drawback on JusJax is that he is a bit older.  Career of course is young.

Wilson was a Jr. on that Moe Wagner Michigan Sweet 16 team.
He barely played his first two seasons there.
Late bloomer and some minor injuries.

DJ looked marginal and confused in his rook year.
But was limited to 29 games due to injury (hamstring) and unreadiness. 
Rook year he looked gangly/awkward/energetic.
But he added muscle and his frame filled out this year.

Good size at 6'10" 230.  Shot 37% on 3's this year and last, though limited tries (2.5 3FGA's this year).  Good hands.  Capable rebounder.  A bit foul prone on D -- but most young'uns are -- and he can switch across most positions.
Can move his feet.  Athletic and can block some shots.

Plays 18 mpg for a top MIL team.  Been a solid bench contributor.  His stats are right about the same as Ilyasova, playing the same number of mins.  Still feeling out the NBA game, but much improved over a shaky rook year where he looked athletic and jittery.  I can see him becoming an NBA starter, if he continues to expand his game.
One red flag: 40% FT shooter this year and last, though few attempts.  That can get into a guy's head, and make him shy from contact/attacking.

DJ's emergence allowed MIL to trade $11M Henson who has been out most of the year after wrist surgery, but would be back in time for the playoffs.  Henson more experienced than DJ, but DJ and Ilya spread the floor allowing Anti-Greek room to obliterate fools at the rim.  So for Henson and Deli, MIL ditched salary and shored up their backcourt with Geo Hill.

For MIL, I'm a big Brogdon fan.  The guy really knows how to play.  Solid on both ends.  Right now his shooting splits are 40 / 50 / 94.
16 / 5 / 3 assists in 29 mins.  Heady player.  Not that athletic for the NBA, but he uses a change of pace and hesitation dribble to get to layups.  Good combo guard size at 6'5".  Really a joy to watch.

Btw, if he were a Knick, I would call him Frogdon for a while than later switch to The Frog ... then just Frog.  Look at him, there is something amphibian about his appearance.  he could do interviews in an Edward G Robinson voice and Georgie Auld's I've Got A Right To Know would be his theme song . . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 15, 2019, 04:32:04 AM
There are some interesting front courts emerging around the league. The Serge, Pascal, Kawhi group in Toronto stands out. I’m liking DJ, Kornet, Knox, Mitch, and Noah. I’m hoping to see guys who emerge as steady contributors from our fleet of talented guards.

Pulling for Phoenix to catch a little hot streak and up its win total.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 15, 2019, 10:00:40 AM
And what about Vucevic-Gordon-Isaac?
I'm somewhat kidding, but ORL has been on a hot streak (won 6 of 7), and they totally thumped CHA last night.  CHA only managed 36 1st half points and late in the half they put up a stat that ORL bench had more points than the whole CHA team.  ORL wound up with 64 bench points and 63 from their starters. 

ISaac is coming on.  Last 5 games nearly 16 & 6 with close to 3 blocks.
v. CHA he got two steals in succession, tipped in a Vuc missed, and a little later bombed in a high arcing corner 3.  Probably no coincidence that this hot Feb stretch of 7 games coincides with Isaac going off.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 15, 2019, 10:36:53 AM
Why kidding?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 15, 2019, 03:34:45 PM
Maybe the Magic are better off getting out of the hunt and aiming for a place in the flattened lotto that gets them a crack at Ja.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 15, 2019, 04:44:55 PM
Philly, Toronto, Boston, and Milwaukee are all pretty well geared to do playoff damage. Indy was there with Oladipo, now along with the Nyets, slated for roadkill. A four team scrap is on for the last two spots.

Is Otto in Chicago in any way sustainable? He got off to quite the start.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 15, 2019, 05:11:25 PM
Uh,,,,,Boston plays Philly round 1......
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 15, 2019, 06:12:53 PM
https://twitter.com/LakersNation/status/1096530843865014272 (https://twitter.com/LakersNation/status/1096530843865014272)

Knox plays tonight

Will sure miss Lonzo
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 15, 2019, 07:26:15 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 15, 2019, 05:11:25 PM
Uh,,,,,Boston plays Philly round 1......

Indy drops 2 spots, maybe 3 if the Nyets surge. Matthews does not replace Olidipo.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 15, 2019, 07:39:08 PM
Certainly what most people expect, but by no means a given.
They lost four straight immediately after Oladipo went down. They've won 6 of 7 since.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 15, 2019, 10:15:19 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 15, 2019, 10:36:53 AM
Why kidding?

Well, Isaac just a chrysalis.
There's been talk of trading Gordon or Vuc.
Vuc a throwback post C (non-stretchy).

They might stick with all 3, and it might work.  But will still take time for Isaac to be consistent.  Looks good when it is working (last 7 games).  And they could really use a better PG than DJ Auggiemysonmyson.

ORL draft history spotty.  And they haven't been good at developing players (Oladipo; almost gave up on Gordon multiple times).
Zonja was a #5 pick.
They just took MoBomb #6, probably with the idea of moving on from Vuc.

They traded Oladipo & Sabonis for Ibaka, then at the end of that year flipped Ibaka for T Ross and a 1st which they used on a 7'2" Latvian who hasn't come over yet.
OKC flipped Ola & Sab for Paul George.

ORL 4 straight years of high drafting: OLadipo (#2), Gordon (4), Zonja 5, Sabonis 11.  And all they have is Gordon left.  Then drafted Isaac 6 and Bamba 6.  Bamba could well be a bust from a solid draft.
They could have taken Shai, Sexton or Zhaire to address their PG void. 

Golden Age of Latvian hoops:
Kristaps Porziņgis, Davis Bertans, Rodions Kurucs and Anzejs Pasecniks drafted by ORL.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 16, 2019, 12:00:16 AM
I didn't realize that SAC drafted Zach Collins #10 then traded him immediately to POR for the #15 Justin Jax and #20 Henry Giles.

It was a very deep draft so the trade down for 2 picks move was terrific in theory.  Just too bad they didn't take John Collins at 15 and  OG/Kuz at 20 (though Giles is a good flyer at that slot).

JusJax played high school ball on a Hoston Homeschool Christian Youth team ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 16, 2019, 12:10:23 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 15, 2019, 07:26:15 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 15, 2019, 05:11:25 PM
Uh,,,,,Boston plays Philly round 1......

Indy drops 2 spots, maybe 3 if the Nyets surge. Matthews does not replace Olidipo.

They have won 6 of 7
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 16, 2019, 12:18:25 AM
Bojan averaging 20 with Vic out - on 50/40/85 sniping (12 games)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 16, 2019, 01:00:40 AM
If Indy has a much weaker remaining schedule than the two stronger teams they might hang on.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 16, 2019, 01:56:09 AM
Quote
The New Orleans Pelicans have parted ways with general manager Dell Demps, the team announced on Friday, clearing the way for a new top basketball executive to oversee the Anthony Davis trade talks.

Demps had been Pelicans GM for nine years, which included three trips to the playoffs but advancing only once past the first round.

Former Cleveland Cavaliers and Atlanta Hawks GM Danny Ferry, a consultant for the Pelicans, has been named the team's interim GM.

Dumps did a poor job of adding depth and constructing a bench.

So the Curry All-star weekend.
Seth Curry engaged to Carrie Rivers, Doc's daughter.  They had a baby last year.  She used to date Paul George.  Steph's sister Sydel Curry is married to Damion Lee, who just joined Steph on the GS Warriors.  Pretty hard-core basketball family.

Saw the 2nd half of the Yute game.
Just oops and dunks and 3's.  And when they started to play more serious in the 4Q it quickly stopped being close.  I didn't really see what Knox did.

Ugly court, with the paint unpainted and the 2 point area a sea of green.  Also, how dumb is it to have 2 players on the same team wearing the same number. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 16, 2019, 01:58:27 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 15, 2019, 10:36:53 AM
Why kidding?

Gordon and Isaac might play the same position, and there may not be sufficient spacing with them on the court at the same time. But both will be too good to keep on the bench next year. It's an awkward fit.

It's why I was proposing before the deadline (and Fultz acquisition): Hayward + Rozier (plus maybe late 1st?) for Gordon + Augustin.


Orlando's previous management was a bit confused and while there's a lot to like about Mo Bamba, Shai would certainly have been the better pick in hindsight for the Magic.  Still, otherwise, the new mgmt team seems a bit more sensible. Hired a good coach, took a reasonable flyer on Fultz (the salary obligation is less of a risk to a team like Orlando that isn't going to be either a cap team or a free agency destination in the next two years), kept Vooch (I hope they resign him rather than let him walk, because Bamba is not ready).

Orlando's one of those teams that would make for a very confusing Zion destination. They'd have to trade multiple players to make room for him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 16, 2019, 02:02:18 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on February 15, 2019, 07:39:08 PM
Certainly what most people expect, but by no means a given.
They lost four straight immediately after Oladipo went down. They've won 6 of 7 since.

McMillan is a top-three COY candidate, along with Bud and Malone. He did a great job last year. Just a fantastic coach. Watch how hard the players cut on offense, how well they communicate on D, how few dumb shots they take. Very little selfisness.

They lost their lone all star in Dipo, Myles Turner has stagnated offensively, the two free agency signings have mostly failed (Reke) or underwhelmed for their price point (McBuckets), no contribution from recent first rounders (TJ Leaf and Aaron Holiday), and yet, here they are, in a better position than last season. They've got a great culture, from top to bottom. One of my fave teams. Sabonis might even win 6MOY.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 16, 2019, 02:05:37 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 15, 2019, 07:26:15 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 15, 2019, 05:11:25 PM
Uh,,,,,Boston plays Philly round 1......

Indy drops 2 spots, maybe 3 if the Nyets surge. Matthews does not replace Olidipo.

There's no chance Brooklyn makes up 8.5 games on Indy, dude, come on.

Best case scenario for Knicks is certainly that Indy hold that 3 seed. You want Kyrie to face Philly, then Milwaukee, then Toronto. Hopefully Celtics lose as early as possible, increases the chances that he walks to NY.

Similarly, you want Miami or Orlando to overtake Charlotte for the playoffs, to maybe help shake Kemba loose from Charlotte.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 16, 2019, 08:55:16 AM
Always liked McMillan.
Old school.

But I expect Bud is the frontrunner for COY.

Quote
Of those six wins, only one came against a plus-.500 team, the Clippers, who just traded away their best player
After losing four straight games immediately following Victor Oladipo's season-ending quad rupture, the left-for-dead Pacers rattled off six straight wins before losing to the Bucks on Wednesday night. It's a nice story, but a little perspective here:. The other victories were against the Heat, the Cavs, the Hornets, a Pelicans team playing without Anthony Davis and Nikola Mirotic, and the post-trade-deadline Lakers who were busy bathing in self pity. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 16, 2019, 09:27:00 AM
Bud would be a perfectly cromulent pick. As would Malone.

A lot of "old school" coaches just look out of touch. The ex-players from McMillan and Bryant's generation who have really succeeded as coach have evolved with the game (Doc, Carlisle, Kerr if you consider him old enough), whereas many have flamed out.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 16, 2019, 10:19:51 AM
Collison and Sabonis having very big years.

Sometimes those - liek Corey Joseph and Evans - that arent at peak are still contributing plenty to the overall MESH of the outfit.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 16, 2019, 11:05:26 AM
Defense, preparation, discipline, move the ball
I think those values hold up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 16, 2019, 12:21:21 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 16, 2019, 11:05:26 AM
Defense, preparation, discipline, move the ball
I think those values hold up.

I agree. Byron Scott, for example, wasn't able to impart those lessons effectively.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 16, 2019, 06:15:36 PM
https://twitter.com/rex_rexchapman/status/1096892315027865606 (https://twitter.com/rex_rexchapman/status/1096892315027865606)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 17, 2019, 04:04:36 AM
Somewhat accidentally tuned in midway through 1st round of 3-Pt contest. Told my cat Joe Harris was going to win.  Cat had Scurry.
Then dunk contest started right after breakfast.
Not too good.
Smith Jr. missed his first attempt and I thought Uh-oh, Nate redux.  Sure enough he took forever on every dunk with multiple tries.
Didn't he practice this ish?

Was glad Diallo won as he was better and actually completed good dunks on the 1st try.  Of course, not great when a guy you've barely heard of wins the dunk contest.  Hometown Bridges had some creative dunks, but couldn't get the 1st one down.  2nd was spiffy.

Along with most of the 2nd half of the Yute game this is the most A-S weekend I've seen in well over a decade.  Maybe 2.
I think this is mostly for kids.

I remember back in the pre-cable day when the AS game was useful a interesting -- a chance to see guys you've only read about in newspaper boxscores (newspaper?  what's that?).  Like Dennis Johnson, Sikma, David Thompson, later even Karl Malone.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 17, 2019, 05:10:09 PM
I’ve definitely caught more of the newbie games than main events the last few years. Condensed games, the uptick in national games, and free league pass windows give a fan many more opportunities to look in than a generation ago. I’m glad that our guys are getting some days to rest up, heal, and refocus.

DJ, Luke, and Knox make for a competitive enough for now starting frontcourt. DSJ seems to have the inside track on the PG reins.

If it does turn in to wins it effects how far we can fall more than it does our odds of rising or staying on top in the draft.

This season is still more fun than any since our ECF run with the geriatric squad.

I’m starting to think about doing next season at or near the salary floor.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 17, 2019, 11:23:27 PM
Yeah, the yute game is better because you get to see guys you might not be too familiar with.  Though these days it's easy to see rooks, watch highlights, get news about everything and everyone.  problem is Yute game is the first thing and I almost always miss it.

Saw much of the 2nd half of the AS game.  Jeez, 3Q it looked like everyone was going half-speed, like it was a practice.  Then devolved into guys trying to make long 3's.  Yawn.  Wound up with the best players shooting league average on mostly uncontested 3's.  Not much sizzle or flash or creativity or intensity.  Bunch of great players lollygagging.

Well, I somehow saw half of most of the AS weekend stuff (though could only take 10 secs of Quavo).  I'll try to miss it next year . . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 17, 2019, 11:37:53 PM
What's happened to Chip?
Didn't he survive the KZ trade?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 18, 2019, 02:41:16 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 17, 2019, 04:04:36 AM
Was glad Diallo won as he was better and actually completed good dunks on the 1st try.  Of course, not great when a guy you've barely heard of wins the dunk contest.

This is a little unfair to Diallo. He was one of the top ranked players in high school, hotly recruited to Kentucky. He disappointed and slipped to the second round (and was looking like a solid pick until his injury).

Agree with you that the right guy won, and also that, had Bridges hit his first dunk, things may have progressed differently.

I liked Collins first dunk and his second was so ridiculous - especially when he tore up the plane - that I couldn't help but to laugh. I'm down for one overly elaborate gimmick gone terribly wrong every dunk contest.

There was some funny online chatter pre-contest amongst Knick fans over who/what would be the funniest thing DSJ could jump over. Best suggestions:

- an actual tank
- a unicorn
- a piece of wood (in reference to his tweet from when he was 15 years old: https://www.si.com/nba/2017/06/22/nba-draft-old-tweets-dennis-smith-jr-terrance-ferguson (https://www.si.com/nba/2017/06/22/nba-draft-old-tweets-dennis-smith-jr-terrance-ferguson))

and my personal fave:

- Janis Porzingis
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 18, 2019, 03:57:48 AM
Collins 1st dunk looked really ho-hum.
He had much better in the rook game.

I was surprised how improvised most of the Dunk Contest appeared considering this was a major national stage for relatively unknown players.   

- Diallo supposedly was going to use Wade as a hold-the-ball prop, but DSJ tabbed Wade first, so he went with the rapper.  Scurry seemed unaware he was going to be asked to toss the ball up, so he asked Diallo how he wanted it and then did a few quick practice lobs to get ready. 

- Obviously Collins prepared the plane prop (prop plane?) but he first put on the aviator goggles and quickly realized they were going to hamper him and discarded the antiquated eyewear.  He also didn't seem to know how to arrange the scarf.  Didn't he even try a practice dunk wearing the scarf and goggles?  Apparently not.

- DSJ and Bridges has significant trouble completing their dunks.  Leading me to wonder how much they prepped.  Were they making these in practice?  Did they practice much?  I imagine changing teams recently probably crimped DSJ's free time to get ready for the dunk contest.

Every year I think of dunks that these guys could try.
When Bridges heaved it off the backboard and then had to do it again.  I thought it'd be great to have him throw it off the backboard, catch it and then run towards the other basket and either do a FT line dunk or something else.   Of course the cameras and such wouldn't be in place, but the complete misdirection would be amusing.

I'd also like to see a big guy dunk it straight down and then the contestant fly in and grab the bounce of that dunk and re-dunk.  There should be a way to make that look cool.

Then there are my more wacky ideas from years past.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 18, 2019, 01:59:27 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 15, 2019, 10:15:19 PM


Golden Age of Latvian hoops:
Kristaps Porziņgis, Davis Bertans, Rodions Kurucs and Anzejs Pasecniks drafted by ORL.

Which is why it was a mistake to cancel Latvian night!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 18, 2019, 03:50:31 PM
We’ve got room for a ten day.

http://www.ridiculousupside.com/2019/2/7/18216166/former-rockets-forward-terrence-jones-is-ready-for-second-chance-in-the-nba-erie-bayhawks-g-league (http://www.ridiculousupside.com/2019/2/7/18216166/former-rockets-forward-terrence-jones-is-ready-for-second-chance-in-the-nba-erie-bayhawks-g-league)

This guy is adding a lot of passing to his game. Could be worth a look.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 18, 2019, 11:17:49 PM
I always thought TJones looked good and had nice tools.  Was surprised he dropped out of the league.  Thought it might be a maturity/effort/focus thing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 19, 2019, 01:00:57 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 18, 2019, 03:50:31 PM
We’ve got room for a ten day.

http://www.ridiculousupside.com/2019/2/7/18216166/former-rockets-forward-terrence-jones-is-ready-for-second-chance-in-the-nba-erie-bayhawks-g-league (http://www.ridiculousupside.com/2019/2/7/18216166/former-rockets-forward-terrence-jones-is-ready-for-second-chance-in-the-nba-erie-bayhawks-g-league)

This guy is adding a lot of passing to his game. Could be worth a look.


Waiting for a player from China
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 19, 2019, 01:50:39 PM
T Jones is the guy who stomped on a homeless guy outside a Portland club.  Wouldn't be surprised if teams just thought he was an a**hole.
5+ years ago.  He's 27 now.  Hopefully he's matured.  But that's horrendous judgment for anyone, let alone a wealthy, large strong guy.

(I forgot who had done that.  Now that I see it was TJones, I'm glad he dropped out of the League.  I'm willing to give him a 2nd chance, but good to see karma is still operating)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 19, 2019, 02:16:04 PM
I had totally forgotten about that. No to Jones. He can work on redemption elsewhere.

Speaking of derailed careers, bad decisions in youth, and China, Michael Beasley is going back to China. He’ll be a low mileage high ability minimum bet at 31 next year as we look to fill out the back of the roster. Otherwise there’s not much of interest in the CBA.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 19, 2019, 02:21:13 PM
Lester Hudson - 10 day.......

WE have seen enough of our current guards to know what options they carry for next year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 19, 2019, 03:00:00 PM
Ridiculous.
Les Hud is 34, hits 35 this Summer.
And what would that do push Franc to 4 PG and 7th G overall?
How does that (or Les) benefit anything?
Complete nonsense.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 19, 2019, 05:10:23 PM
Les would be a shooting guard here.  Its just a look see.  I have seen enough of these other guys

The age doesnt bother me.  But sure - look at the other top scorer - the guy ahead of Jimmer instead - ,,,,,if he will come.  I dont include Fordson, who is a point.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 19, 2019, 06:39:12 PM
There are more interesting guys in the Gleague than China.

What are the current team needs?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 20, 2019, 12:30:49 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 19, 2019, 06:39:12 PM
There are more interesting guys in the Gleague than China.

What are the current team needs?

Well... we just traded a Euro stiff.  We could fill up our quota.

Someone who is tearing up the G-League could be Henry Ellenson
Title: Aint it a Sham man?
Post by: Kam on February 20, 2019, 12:38:57 AM
Shams Charania
✔
@ShamsCharania
 Forward Henry Ellenson plans to sign a 10-day contract with the New York Knicks, league sources tell @TheAthleticNBA @Stadium.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 20, 2019, 12:40:47 AM
Just saw that.
Not sure why Ellenson was a FA.
But sure, why not take a look at him.

Quote
Last week:
Pistons officially have signed guard Wayne Ellington and waived forward Henry Ellenson.
Title: Now a Knick: Henry Ellenson
Post by: Kam on February 20, 2019, 12:47:07 AM
Always a Knick.

Drafted 18th in 2016

But 2016 is  looking like one of the weakest drafts ever

Worse than 2013*

Ellenson was drafted by the Pistons, a couple picks after the Hernangomez brother, and two picks before Caris Lavert

He was Big East Freshman of the year at Marquette grabbing 9.7 rebounds per game along with 17 points







*  (except for Ben Simmons going #1 vs. Anthony Bennett)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 20, 2019, 01:27:43 AM

DET drafting pretty uninspired since Darko in 2003.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DET/draft.html
Last 6 lotto picks: Kennard (#12), StanJohn 8, KCP 8, Drummond 9, Brandon Knight 8, Greg Monroe 7 in last 8 years.
Also, Ellenson 18, and before that Austin Daye 15, Rod Stuckey 15.
That's a decade of mediocre.

[Have to admit I liked Drummond, StanJohn, and KCP.
But all seemed to stagnate and not add to their game.  Maybe that's on DET's player development, but seems to be the player's limitations.
KCP a genuine 2-way player who is frustratingly passive (Courtly Syndrome); StanJohn a high level defender without a jump shot, can run the court and adding a dribble-drive game; Drummond too inconsistent and puts up stats without impacting winning].

A few scattered good late picks.
2nd rounders Dinwiddie, Amir Johnson, 25 pick Afflalo, Bring it to Jerebko.

Maybe that's just the dangers of drafting around #8 every year.
I guess the real story is last 5 years: Kennard, Ellenson, Stan John and two years without a 1st rounder.  That's a long time without getting a yute to stick.  Though jury out on Kennard.  Looks okay/average, but important distinction whether he can be starter average or just bench average.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 20, 2019, 01:37:50 AM
The two picks directly after Kennard: Donovan Mitch & Bam Onthebayou.

I'll let them slide on Ellenson in a weak draft, but there were of course some better prospects lower (LaVert, Siakim, Brogdon, DeJounte)

Three out of the 5 picks after StanJohn: Winslow, My Turner, Dev Book

KCP a solid #8 pick, but McCollum #10, Grizzled Adams #12, Giannis Superhero #15.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 20, 2019, 02:06:40 AM
2013 a much worse spread than 2016.

'16 looks pretty solid to me.
Top 7 you have 5 guys who could become all-stars.
Simmons, Ingram, Jaylen, Hield, Jamal Murr.
Bender the one bust.
Dunn will probably become a solid backup PG.  Maybe a late bloomer.  Probably more like a mid-round level pick.
That's completely solid, possibly strong, if Jaylen or Ingram reach their potential.

Sabonis (11) is very nice.
Poeltl (9) with a poorly spelled name but solid game.
Thon Maker (10) raw with upside.
Taureen Prince (12) coming along nicely.
Chriss 8 a bust so far, but hugely athletic.

Top dozen rather strong and solid.
Just a top heavy draft.
Not deep, as 13 down is fairly weak.

Yet Juancho (15) is a nice player.
LaVert #20 is LeGit.
Siakim #27 nearly an all-star, having a break out year.
DeJounte #29 a top PG defender learning the craft til his leg fell off.
Damion Jones #30 married into the Curry family.

2nd round:
The Frog, Mr Steady, Malcolm Brogdon 36;
Zubac 32; McCaw 38; Layman 47

Still time for mid-round picks Bembry, Valentine, Beasley, Korkmaz, Luwawu, Skal . . . or even Ellenson to make it as rotation contributors or possible starters.  While Chriss still could get it.
If a few of these guys pan out it could go from an average/solid but top-heavy draft to a strong draft class.
 
Overall looks to me like a very typical draft.  Just distributed funny.
A rather strong Top 12 and then thins out considerably.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 20, 2019, 02:14:37 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 19, 2019, 03:00:00 PM
Ridiculous.
Les Hud is 34, hits 35 this Summer.
And what would that do push Franc to 4 PG and 7th G overall?
How does that (or Les) benefit anything?
Complete nonsense.

Thank you. Although I wonder why bother.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 20, 2019, 04:53:52 AM
Since we like what we’re seeing with Kornet, it makes sense to kick the tires on Henry since he has a somewhat similar profile and skill set. It will be interesting to get a glimpse of where he is in his development.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 20, 2019, 07:57:43 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 19, 2019, 02:16:04 PM
I had totally forgotten [Ed. homeless stomping] about that. No to Jones. He can work on redemption elsewhere.

I have a belief that you don't judge a person based solely on their worst moment.  [Of course you can extend that only so far].  But people are complex, have various facets, and bad judgment or handling a situation badly can occur easily at almost any time. 

I also have a belief that a good percentage of NBA players engage in plenty of awful behavior ranging from the standard cheating on wives, to driving drunk, and probably including various degrees of rape/exploitation, and possibly worse.  But when you have a lot of wealth at such a young age, and so many followers/fawners, it also must be very hard to keep your head and not yield to temptation.
Many also do a fair amount of charity/community work. 

I really focus on on-court contributions and have little interest in their personal life.  That trial made it somewhat hard for me to root for DRose.  But overall, I'd rather not know, and would prefer to separate the personal from the professional even when I do learn something.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 20, 2019, 03:06:25 PM
Romeo with the crossover

https://twitter.com/BleacherReport/status/1098066452647739392 (https://twitter.com/BleacherReport/status/1098066452647739392)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 20, 2019, 03:46:41 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 20, 2019, 07:57:43 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 19, 2019, 02:16:04 PM
I had totally forgotten [Ed. homeless stomping] about that. No to Jones. He can work on redemption elsewhere.

I have a belief that you don't judge a person based solely on their worst moment.  [Of course you can extend that only so far].  But people are complex, have various facets, and bad judgment or handling a situation badly can occur easily at almost any time. 

I also have a belief that a good percentage of NBA players engage in plenty of awful behavior ranging from the standard cheating on wives, to driving drunk, and probably including various degrees of rape/exploitation, and possibly worse.  But when you have a lot of wealth at such a young age, and so many followers/fawners, it also must be very hard to keep your head and not yield to temptation.
Many also do a fair amount of charity/community work. 

I really focus on on-court contributions and have little interest in their personal life.  That trial made it somewhat hard for me to root for DRose.  But overall, I'd rather not know, and would prefer to separate the personal from the professional even when I do learn something.

As a teenager Lance Stephenson stomped on his girlfriends fathers head or something like that

He seems to have left that in the past
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 20, 2019, 04:41:11 PM
Re:  Ellenson

"You get rid of a Kanter, you will be looking for a Kanter"

- more often used with Jacob deGrom
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 20, 2019, 07:46:08 PM
A Kanter deGrom 1-2 punch in a short series.... watch out!
Title: Antonio Brown
Post by: Kam on February 20, 2019, 07:50:19 PM
Look at how AB effectively used media and social media as a way to get off the Steelers (eventually... they agreed to trade him)


Look at how EK used media and social media in his misguided attempt to remain a Knick.


They did all the same exact things basically.    Their messages were different but their actions were the same to produce the outcome that is coming.


Shut up and play if you wanna stay.  The moment you talk, you got to walk.


I'm not being a hardliner against uppity nigras as Lester puts it.   These are TEAM sports.  No room for DIVAS like EK.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 20, 2019, 09:01:53 PM
I would agree that the Knicks didnt need the extra baggage (visa issues, stuff with Turkish govt) - and they werent going away for next season.

So they fukked him good - to look at other guys and (likely) get a higher pick

Is what it is.  Go, Blazers.

(we still need a Kanter, which is why getting Zion is real important and keeping Jordan is a necessity if we dont)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 20, 2019, 09:08:23 PM
Zion's foot just blew out the side of his shoe - first minute of Carolina game

Injured right knee

Unreal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 20, 2019, 09:12:22 PM
Kanter has less on the floor than Ellison and much less than Zion (on one leg or two) or Jordan.

He won’t be much help to Portland either.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 20, 2019, 09:26:32 PM
He’s really strong,” Damian Lillard said, offering a first impression of his new teammate. “Each time he got the ball, he was able to get a quality shot on the block. He was really good on the block. Really good offensive rebounder. The game looked easy to him.”

Kanter will instantly become the Blazers’ backup center behind Jusuf Nurkic, playing alongside Evan Turner, Seth Curry, Jake Layman and Rodney Hood in a retooled second un

https://www.oregonlive.com/blazers/2019/02/emotional-enes-kanter-joins-portland-trail-blazers.html (https://www.oregonlive.com/blazers/2019/02/emotional-enes-kanter-joins-portland-trail-blazers.html)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 20, 2019, 09:30:06 PM
Kanter, the anti-Porzingis

https://www.sportingnews.com/ca/nba/news/enes-kanter-says-hed-recommend-knicks-to-upcoming-free-agents/1cl1hfo9q89u01l7u8i5mzowwi (https://www.sportingnews.com/ca/nba/news/enes-kanter-says-hed-recommend-knicks-to-upcoming-free-agents/1cl1hfo9q89u01l7u8i5mzowwi)

- recommends Knicks to Durant and others
Title: No more tryin for Zion
Post by: Kam on February 20, 2019, 09:47:04 PM
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/duke-vs-unc-zion-williamson-blows-out-of-his-sneaker-during-first-minute-of-game/ (https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/duke-vs-unc-zion-williamson-blows-out-of-his-sneaker-during-first-minute-of-game/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on February 20, 2019, 11:39:11 PM
Mild sprain
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 20, 2019, 11:44:47 PM
He should shut it down.   Get drafted #1.  Sit for a year to heal ( the Porzingis plan)  so his team can draft #1 again next year.
Title: Evil Agent Kam(s)ter
Post by: carlos123 on February 21, 2019, 12:07:26 AM
Quote from: Kam on February 20, 2019, 11:44:47 PM
He should shut it down.   Get drafted #1.  Sit for a year to heal ( the Porzingis plan)  so his team can draft #1 again next year.

You’re too ambitious for the kid Zion. Or are you trying to be just like Janis? 😅
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 21, 2019, 12:17:19 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 20, 2019, 09:01:53 PM
(we still need a Kanter, which is why getting Zion is real important and keeping Jordan is a necessity if we dont)

I'm not one of the Kanter haters, and the Blazers are a team I really hope does well so I'll still be cheering for Enes in his new digs. But in no way are DeAndre or Zion "a Kanter".
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 21, 2019, 02:41:21 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 20, 2019, 09:01:53 PM
I would agree that the Knicks didnt need the extra baggage (visa issues, stuff with Turkish govt) - and they werent going away for next season.

I don't think this was an issue.  He has a US green card.  I assume that's fine for going to Toronto, and Canada is not going to care about any Erdogan Interpol notice.
It did become an issue for the London game, but that was a one off.  And mostly he was concerned about the reach of Turkish goons, a la Putin's Russian henchmen.

Basically for next year, the Knix simply preferred cap space to Kanter.  Or another way of putting it is the Knix weren't planning on paying Kanter what he would be looking for next year.  So when he became a distraction they dropped him.  Kanter is a terrific rebounder and strong inside scorer.  But can't really defend anywhere on the court.

POR needed to improve their bench (I still don't know why they didn't keep Ed Davis).  Kant is a vet and can help, especially against 2nd units in short stretches.  Rod Hood is erratic and a guy I never trusted, but he can get hot, is fairly athletic and a decent defender (though prone to dumb fouls).   Layman has looked good recently, but who knows how he'll perform in the playoffs. 

Quote
Kanter, Evan Turner, Seth Curry, Jake Layman and Rodney Hood
Also Zach Collins and Meyers Leonard.  Those guys likely to play more than Layman.  Pretty much Rod Hood takes all minutes from Layman, unless he stinks.  While Kanter knocks MyLeonard from the rotation.
While both Kant and RodHood have glaring flaws, I like that POR is adding depth and trying to be a playoff threat.
If you can keep a game close, Lillard is a great closer.
And a stronger bench helps get you there.

I missed this:
Quote
The Kings traded Labissiere to the Trail Blazers in exchange for Caleb Swanigan.

Skal a future asset.  Won't be ready this year and for these playoffs.
All I know of Swanigan is he was the guy who was 350 pounds in 8th grade ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 21, 2019, 09:05:31 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on February 21, 2019, 12:17:19 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 20, 2019, 09:01:53 PM
(we still need a Kanter, which is why getting Zion is real important and keeping Jordan is a necessity if we dont)

I'm not one of the Kanter haters, and the Blazers are a team I really hope does well so I'll still be cheering for Enes in his new digs. But in no way are DeAndre or Zion "a Kanter".

Big board guys......

Of course they also change shots.....

Just dont see going forward without that type being added to Mitch and the others.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: NeedsAdjustments on February 21, 2019, 08:36:41 PM
NBA draft age going to 18.

Always a little sad and disappointing when it takes something bad happening to make people realize the current state of things is stupid.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 21, 2019, 10:46:45 PM
Fun Bucks-Smelts game.
Bit of a sloppy ending.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on February 21, 2019, 10:52:35 PM
Smelts

heh

thats some clever stuff.

good game, rough ending.

looked like the Smelts (still LMAO) tried to run a back-door play for Morris, but he got jammed at line

get 'em next time
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on February 22, 2019, 05:41:29 AM
If I'm Toronto or especially Philly, I fear Boston more than Milwaukee.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 22, 2019, 07:01:41 AM
I like how Celts switched Smart on to Giannis a couple times late.
He was the only one to get in front and block and hound him.
Tough dude.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 22, 2019, 07:10:17 AM
MIL doesn't have the playoff experience BOS and TOR do.
Neither does PHI, but they are stacked.
I favor experience.  Plus I don't think the Giannis Bulls People Over act will work in a playoff series.  We'll see.  Maybe get enough 1st round momentum to be primed for the 2nd round.  BOS pups did well last year. 

I'm leaning towards TOR because they play D and Kawhi can score in the clutch fairly well.  BOS has the pieces but needs to get it together.
The 2nd round in the East should be a lot of fun.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 22, 2019, 08:29:28 AM
Lakes started Bullock over KCP.
Can't be passive in this league.

I think Ball should be back soon.
Good defender and passer.
I figure Lakes make it into the playoffs.
And Clips somewhat willingly drop out.

An LBJ v. GSW 1st round series would be fun.
Ball on Scurry; Ingram/LBJ on Durant; Bullock/KCP on Klay
They don't match up badly, and this year GSW isn't that deep.
Kuz a bit of a weak link defender.  Hide him on Dray.
JaVale & TyC wrestle with Cousin Boogie.
So they match up fairly well.  GSW just more coherent.

LAL offense a bit of a ?
But just need Kuz to do his thing and Ingram to be aggressive but not out of control (he's really bad when doubled).  Get some solid shooting from Hart. Bullock, KCP and you have a potential upset.

Might depend how much energy LeBJ has to expend just to get Lakes to the playoffs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 22, 2019, 08:53:26 AM
Quote
The Rockets are signing power forward Terrence Jones to a 10-day deal, sources told ESPN. Jones, 27, a former Rockets first-round pick, has been out of the NBA since 2016-17. He’s been dominant in the G League this season, averaging 23.5 points, 9.6 rebounds and 5.7 assists.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on February 22, 2019, 09:48:21 AM
No team falls apart like Houston falls apart (even with Paul playing). 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 22, 2019, 05:14:35 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 20, 2019, 09:12:22 PM
Kanter has less on the floor than Ellison and much less than Zion (on one leg or two) or Jordan.

He won’t be much help to Portland either.

18 points, 9 rebounds and a victory in his first game for Portland.

Oh, I'm sure it's just a fluke.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 22, 2019, 05:46:12 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 22, 2019, 05:14:35 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 20, 2019, 09:12:22 PM
Kanter has less on the floor than Ellison and much less than Zion (on one leg or two) or Jordan.

He won’t be much help to Portland either.

18 points, 9 rebounds and a victory in his first game for Portland.

Oh, I'm sure it's just a fluke.

His bench crew only gave up a little of the lead. He’s always been worth it as a minimum guy, maybe even bi-annual level. -3 in the game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 22, 2019, 07:43:47 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on January 28, 2019, 11:40:41 PM
Sadly, his game is outdated and not useful in the modern NBA. Tell me I'm making that up. I don't think that's exactly crazy talk.

The idiocy that enveloped Kam & PriK's 10,000,000 Enes-Hate posts all the more striking as he slips seamless into sig minutes with the #4 team in the west.

Onward.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 23, 2019, 08:24:19 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on February 22, 2019, 05:41:29 AM
If I'm Toronto or especially Philly, I fear Boston more than Milwaukee.

heh

No.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 23, 2019, 08:37:03 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 22, 2019, 05:46:12 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 22, 2019, 05:14:35 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 20, 2019, 09:12:22 PM
Kanter has less on the floor than Ellison and much less than Zion (on one leg or two) or Jordan.

He won’t be much help to Portland either.

18 points, 9 rebounds and a victory in his first game for Portland.

Oh, I'm sure it's just a fluke.

His bench crew only gave up a little of the lead. He’s always been worth it as a minimum guy, maybe even bi-annual level. -3 in the game.

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 23, 2019, 11:08:05 AM
So Datsun scored 18 1Q points and finished with 20?
Knix had 20 turns to 15 assists ...

And looks like their bench killed us.

Seems like an odd game, but I only caught fragments of a replay, since my internet connection was crap.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 23, 2019, 02:44:48 PM
Mudiay is no substitute for Kadeem Allen. That was pretty much our downfall.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 23, 2019, 03:47:41 PM
Paul George at or about career highs in every category.

Quote
The NBA's Last Two Minute Report for the Bucks' 98-97 win listed three incorrect calls on the final play alone, as well as an incorrect ruling on Brook Lopez's attempted tip-in with 3.7 seconds remaining.
On the ensuing possession for the Celtics, however three calls were said to be missed: an illegal screen by Kyrie Irving on Khris Middleton; a subsequent hold by Middleton on Marcus Morris to prevent him from using Irving's screen to catch a wide-open lob at the rim; and an Eric Bledsoe foul on Irving on his drive before he missed what would have been a game-winning shot.

I'd have to see it again, to judge the screens.  But the Bledsoe contact on the shot wasn't much.  I think that's a judgment call and usually the refs won't call anything but a clear foul on a last second shot.

The real blown call was the Bropez tip, which would have left BOS with very little time left. 

Also, it's reasonable to let some non-calls offset.  If you let Kyrie make a questionable screen because you don't want to ruin the last play with an off-the-ball call, then it's reasonable to allow a hold on the guy being freed by the screen, as long as not too egregious.

Sort of like when the refs realize they didn't call a foul on Team A when a ball gets knocked out of bounds, and even though it went out off Team B, they give it to Team B to rectify the non-call.

I'm not a fan of these last 2 Min reports, but I think they should have two levels: 1) a foul should have been called and 2) a foul could have been called.

But generally letting the action occur during the last play is preferable to a foul call, especially for minor or off-ball fouls. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 23, 2019, 07:50:48 PM
Paul George at or about career highs in every category.


----

Good news I guess for Hayward
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 23, 2019, 10:02:29 PM
Good news for OKC.
Also good news for PG13's decision to stay.
PG 2nd in the League in scoring; 1st in Steals.
Has to be in the MVP convo.

Cavs won.
Bullies crushing the Smelts . . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 24, 2019, 08:57:41 AM
Would be nice to see Lebron finish third or lower in MVP.  Nothing against him.....

Harden now sits at +150, which is likely not a bad wager.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 24, 2019, 09:48:57 AM
1. Anti-Greek
2. Paul George John & Ringo
3. Hardon

LeBJ missed a month, borderline playoff team, he doesn't put the effort into defense he used.  He's still Top 5. 

Who else rounds out the Top 10?
Jokic
Kawhi
Embiid
Scurry
Durant
10. Lillard/Kyrie

AD (drops 'cause he sabotaged his team and won't make the playoffs)

Am I forgetting anyone?

Next tier:
Westbrook, Kemba, Blake, LMA, Beal, Gobert

Butler, Tobias, Ibaka, Siakim, Luca, Fox . . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on February 24, 2019, 09:50:37 AM
I turned off the Celts game mid-3Q.

Disgusted.

giving up 126 points to the Bulls is inexcusable.

I want to see Brad get pissed off.

 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 24, 2019, 09:59:32 AM
Sheck Diallo

8-8
18 and 10 in 18 minutes as Pels top LAL

Gotta keep an eye on those developing young NBA players
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 24, 2019, 10:05:22 AM
LeBron played 21 minutes at center.

McGhee 16, Chandler 4, Wagner 7.
Randle logged C minutes for NO.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 24, 2019, 08:21:59 PM
Electric Mud!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 24, 2019, 09:30:17 PM
Sadly, he seems to revert when it matters.


* Fiz not letting him anywhere near the end of this game for once...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 24, 2019, 10:11:17 PM
First Knick game I've seen in a while.
Lotta yutes had big games.
Mitch with big plays on both ends.
Datsun 8-13 on 3's, and hit a big one late to really seal things with 2 mins left.
Knocks aggressive 19 & 10 ( a few bad fouls though)
Mud with a big 2Q
DS Jr. with a number of nice lobs.

Knix with 130; scored 30 or more very Q; outscored SAS every Q.
Defense was pretty good.  Some dopey fouls (mostly Knox and Mitch), but only Demar and Poetl had good games for SA.  And DeMar had to work for his 32.  LMA rather quiet.  And it certainly wasn't Latvian night out there.

Good to see the Young Knix able to hold off a late Spurs run.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 24, 2019, 10:28:09 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on February 24, 2019, 09:30:17 PM
Sadly, he seems to revert when it matters.


* Fiz not letting him anywhere near the end of this game for once...

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 25, 2019, 11:35:58 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 24, 2019, 10:11:17 PM
First Knick game I've seen in a while.
Lotta yutes had big games.
Mitch with big plays on both ends.
Datsun 8-13 on 3's, and hit a big one late to really seal things with 2 mins left.
Knocks aggressive 19 & 10 ( a few bad fouls though)
Mud with a big 2Q
DS Jr. with a number of nice lobs.

Knix with 130; scored 30 or more very Q; outscored SAS every Q.
Defense was pretty good.  Some dopey fouls (mostly Knox and Mitch), but only Demar and Poetl had good games for SA.  And DeMar had to work for his 32.  LMA rather quiet.  And it certainly wasn't Latvian night out there.

Good to see the Young Knix able to hold off a late Spurs run.

I dont think the defense was good at all

Won the game on the offensive end.  Lets progress toward being that kind of team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 25, 2019, 03:12:36 PM
Mitch blocked 5 shots and altered more.
DeRozan had to work fairly hard for his shots.
SAS shot poorly form 3-land, and didn't have many wide open 3's (which had been a Knick specialty).

There were some breakdowns and dumb fouls, but frequently Spurs had to go late into the shot clock.
So overall I thought the defense was fairly good, despite mistakes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 25, 2019, 06:46:42 PM
We defended reasonably well, though we were pretty vulnerable to Smith switching to a big then getting caught in the post with no or late help. We were able to play a high paced game without unraveling which was nice for a change.

We had a high degree of team quickness and kept moving on both ends.

The Magic are a lot more spry than Ole’ San Antone.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 26, 2019, 03:48:26 AM
Spurs got waxed by the Nyets. Phoenix wins one, though they’ve already hit 50 losses.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 26, 2019, 09:16:34 AM
Forbes 2-14
Beliinelli 1-7
Mills 1-7


D'Angelo 23-8-7

May be looking at some all-NBA votes
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 26, 2019, 09:26:34 AM
Michael Porter Jr update

https://twitter.com/mellentuck/status/1100141843650670592 (https://twitter.com/mellentuck/status/1100141843650670592)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 26, 2019, 11:25:13 AM
Spurs have been a weak Road team.
1-7 on the Rodeo Trip.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 26, 2019, 03:40:04 PM
Everyone focusing on Enes Kanter

You're not loyal to the standout Knick whose development came at Kanter's expense.

Our fierce new Center of the Future and Clint Accapella clone: Mitchell Fandango Robinson
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 26, 2019, 04:08:38 PM
We will know in time but it seems LA made a mistake choosing Wagner over Mitch.....

What type offer do you think he gets when a RFA?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 26, 2019, 04:10:35 PM
Mitch of course IS only getting 12 and 10 per 36.  The 4.4 blocks of course stand out.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 26, 2019, 06:51:38 PM
https://twitter.com/rex_rexchapman/status/1100539212619833345 (https://twitter.com/rex_rexchapman/status/1100539212619833345)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 26, 2019, 07:01:14 PM
Good TNT double dip tonight.  Knicks-Orlando provide a little warmup.

Dotson price continues to rise - in a bit of a conundrum as he does his Allan Houston impersonation.
D Smith Jr appears to be a pretty good answer at least for a couple of years.
With Barrett that looks like a good backcourt next year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 26, 2019, 07:13:48 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 26, 2019, 04:08:38 PM
We will know in time but it seems LA made a mistake choosing Wagner over Mitch.....

What type offer do you think he gets when a RFA?

I remember Wagner could shoot it a little in College.  He got injured and it hurt his progress.  So he can still become a stretch 5.

I say this because Mitch can't shoot the ball at all.  But has the vertical game for oops, putbacks, and his main weapon: blocks/rim detterance.

Different players.

Mitchell should get to ink an 60-75mil 5 year contract extension someday.

Maybe something in the 85-100 range if he can hit his FTs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 26, 2019, 07:15:37 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 26, 2019, 07:01:14 PM
Good TNT double dip tonight.  Knicks-Orlando provide a little warmup.

Dotson price continues to rise - in a bit of a conundrum as he does his Allan Houston impersonation.
D Smith Jr appears to be a pretty good answer at least for a couple of years.
With Barrett that looks like a good backcourt next year.

I love RJ Barrett.   Fuck Zion.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 26, 2019, 07:16:35 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 26, 2019, 04:10:35 PM
Mitch of course IS only getting 12 and 10 per 36.  The 4.4 blocks of course stand out.

Baby steps.   I'd rather have 12 and 10 per 36 on a young high-ceiling guy under contract who plays Offense to a similar PER as Enes and actually plays Defense as well... than whatever Enes was giving us as an expiring guy.

I get the Enes love.  It's a reflex.  I liked him as a hustle guy.  Didn't like him as a wannabe All-Star who felt minutes were deserved.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 26, 2019, 07:56:52 PM
https://twitter.com/kylekuzma/status/1100513132798066688 (https://twitter.com/kylekuzma/status/1100513132798066688)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 26, 2019, 08:04:56 PM
Asses kicked early.....

Mudiay trying to save us.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 26, 2019, 08:05:46 PM
Starters were 2-15
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 26, 2019, 09:41:34 PM
#1 finishing off the win.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 26, 2019, 09:43:13 PM
Insane statline for Mitchell.

Not bad for Mr Ellenson either
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 26, 2019, 10:18:13 PM
Locking up Ellison cheaps would be a good idea. Aside from how he clicked with Mitch and passed generally, he also looked good with Kornet in a legit 5 out that provided some actual size and protection up front.

Mitch Kornet
Ellison
Knox Frank
Dot Trier Jenkins
Smith

If we’re not landing the biggest possible fishes, keeping Mudiay and Vonleh are also good ideas if they come at reasonable salary numbers.

It’s fun to watch a little winning now and then.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 26, 2019, 11:12:26 PM
I keep seeing:

Quote
LeBron James passed Andre Miller tonight for 10th on the all-time in assists list with 8,525 and counting. He is the only player in league history to rank in the top 10 in both assists and scoring

I imagine this is just poor phrasing/writing.  Because I'm certain Oscar Robertson was Top 10 soring and assists when he retired in the early 70's.  What I assume they meant is that LeBJ is the only one currently in the top 10 in both categories.  Hell, today, The Big O is 6th in Assists and 12th in Scoring 45 years later.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 26, 2019, 11:35:46 PM
uh.....right

Ralph Beard and Dolph Schayes were also top ten in both after the 49-50 season
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 27, 2019, 05:48:41 AM
The "only player in league history" sounds like it's never been done before.  And your examples prove how dumb that is.

LeBJ is the only player in the Top 10 in both Career Scoring and Assists.

Actually the past decade plus there are frequent errors, poor writing and typos throughout media because the business model is collapsing and the first things they chintz on are copywriters and editors. 

And while it is undoubtedly an accomplishment, passing Andre Miller for 10th most assists makes it sound less impressive.
Title: Dr. Ho
Post by: bodiddley on February 27, 2019, 05:59:28 AM
Jeez, prior to the Knick game replay, they present a show about shitting.  Cleanse, detox . . .  It's time to go with Dr. Ho.
And by go they mean empty your bowels thoroughly.  Yuck.

Who the hell watches a show about pooping to improve your health?
Who buys such a thing?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 27, 2019, 01:00:57 PM
Magic had been playing well and got off to a good start.  But they played poorly in the 4Q.  I guess that's part of lacking a PG.

Mud might have finished, but he was rather messy.  One possession around the 6 min mark, Muddy started to lose his dribble, recovered and passed off, got the ball back and tried to lose his dribble again.  he got called for a charge when he used his favorite shoulder-push-off to clear space int he paint.  Had a rim shot blocked.  Clanked a 3.

Granted he was better than Jr Smitty who had a poor game and displayed really bad defensive instincts.  He likes to gamble on D, and frequently has no idea where to switch.  I haven't seen much lately, but Smith was mostly a mess on both ends.

The comeback hero might have been Trier who forced the issue, had one sweet whirligig layup and forced fouls on ORL.

Hellenson played a solid game.  He's a little jittery like the game hasn't slowed down yet, but he was active, hit the floor once, and canned the biggest shot. 

Knox.  <sigh>  He played hard but just wasn't able to do anything.  He needs to go up strong near the rim.  He plays smaller than his size the way he crouches and doesn't take advantage of his athleticism.  Some muscle will help, but you need to go up strong and confident.  Force contact and make the refs blow their whistle if need be. 

Mitch was pretty great.  17 & 14 with 6 Blocks and 8 O-boards.
Besides the half-dozen blocks there were a few intimidations.  Once Fournier drove, saw the Mitch-switch and he became uncertain and just lost his dribble out of bounds.

Knick management should be thinking of having Mitch and Knox long term, 10 year Knix.  Now that might not be possible, but that should be the thinking.  We need to develop players, keep them around, let fans watch them grow and root them. 

Continuity is a good thing.  As far as I can tell, there are only two players -- Franc and Lance -- left from last year's opening day roster. And they are both bench guys this year.
I saw DeAndretheGiant clapping for Ellenson, and I was wondering if he even knew Ellensons' first name ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 27, 2019, 01:30:39 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 27, 2019, 01:00:57 PM


Mitch was pretty great.  17 & 14 with 6 Blocks and 8 O-boards.
Besides the half-dozen blocks there were a few intimidations.  Once Fournier drove, saw the Mitch-switch and he became uncertain and just lost his dribble out of bounds.

Knick management should be thinking of having Mitch and Knox long term, 10 year Knix.  Now that might not be possible, but that should be the thinking.  We need to develop players, keep them around, let fans watch them grow and root them. 

Continuity is a good thing.  As far as I can tell, there are only two players -- Franc and Lance -- left from last year's opening day roster. And they are both bench guys this year.
I saw DeAndretheGiant clapping for Ellenson, and I was wondering if he even knew Ellensons' first name ...

DeAndre clapping for Henry .... who would've predicted that three weeks ago?

Mitch Robinson is the feel-good story of the Knicks season.   Knox has performed like a mid to late lottery pick.   Trier has shown he should've been drafted.  Happy for him that he got a contract.   But Mitch... Mitch is playing these days like he should have gone twenty to thirty spots higher.

He is already an elite defensive force.  I don't even call him a rim-protector anymore because last night he blocked three jumpers (three-point shots!)  and Breen remarked how he had never seen that before.    Blocks shots, changes other shots,  covers more space laterally to close on shooters.... this guy defends in and out of his area, cleaning up his teammates mistakes.   You can afford a sieve at PG if you have a backline like Mitch.

Offensively.... he has no game outside three feet.  BUT the game he has is very efficient and effective.  You don't NEED to run plays for him but you SHOULD throw him at least 5 LOBS a game.   The pick and roll is the Wildcat offense of the NBA.  The quarterback of the team, our PG, takes a pick and slashes rimward, when the defense reacts he has the option to lob the ball to a head-full-of-steam Robinson grabbing the ball at 13-14 feet in midair and cradling it downward to the basket and through the net.  I recall early in the season bemoaning the fact that we never ran any lobs off the pick and roll and that was why Mitch was only scoring three points a game back then.   

He should be a ten year knick.  He will be an All-Star if he develops a bit of an offensive repertoire.  But i look at Rudy Gobert and I see no reason Mitch can't be better.

I like that we've lined up guys on two year deals like Jenkins and Trier so that we are ready to keep their small cap holds in the offseason while chasing big free agents.   It seems like there was some backdoor wink wink dealings with Durants agents (Rich Kleinmann?) and PerryMills were given some certified information such that they KNOW FOR SURE that they're only in the DURANT game if they also open up Cap-space for his plus+ONE.

It is still not a guarantee that he comes and frankly... i might not want his plus+ONE.   Reminds me of when we had to eat Penny's deal to take Stephon Marbury.  So if Durant doesn't come.... i'm fine with the team we have assembled as the one that we move forward with, building around the pieces acquired from the last two drafts (Mitch, ZO, Knox, Frank, DSJ, Dot) and the G-leaguers (Jenk, Ellen)  perhaps a re-signed DJ (one year above-market deal to preserve cap space) and Vonleh.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 27, 2019, 02:23:13 PM
Quote
a business dispute between Clippers owner Steve Ballmer and New York Knicks owner James Dolan has turned nasty and will probably result in a legal fight that could interfere with NBA business.

Dolan owns the Forum in Inglewood, California, a building the Madison Square Garden Company spent $100 million renovating to make a first-class concert venue. Ballmer has his own deal with the city of Inglewood to develop a new arena for the Clippers to move to, essentially across the street from the Forum, when their Staples Center lease ends. As you might imagine, MSG and Dolan aren't thrilled with this development.

The issue is MSG used to control the land via a lease to be used for overflow parking. But the company gave up the lease when the city indicated it wanted to build a technology park there. When Ballmer showed up in Inglewood to announce his glorious new home for the Clippers, Dolan was, um, furious. He sued.

According to sealed documents and emails from the case that were unearthed by the Los Angeles Times last week, .the mayor of Inglewood and Ballmer were working together for months to plan the arena while taking steps to hide their plans from Dolan so MSG would be willing to give up the lease on the land

It would probably benefit the NBA for the Clippers to have their own facility. Their unfavorable lease with Staples Center sees them earn more than $20 million less than the co-tenant Lakers in annual arena income. But the Clippers' current arena plan sure wouldn't benefit Dolan or the Forum.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 28, 2019, 05:05:20 AM
That’s great. Let’s hope Dolan keeps all the focus of his ownership influence on the west coast.

I’m going to start trying to catch more Grizzlies games. Bradley and Wright are a nice compliment to Conely. JV is no Marc, but he’s a bit of a beast in his own right. Noah is even finding his game again there. It seems fun.

DWade is going out in style.
Title: Warriors Durant jersey discounted 75%
Post by: Kam on February 28, 2019, 10:31:46 AM
Kevin Durant Warriors jerseys now 75 percent off as Knicks rumors grow originally appeared on nbcsportsbayarea.com (http://nbcsportsbayarea.com)

Does Nike know something we don't know?

Kevin Durant jerseys now are 75 percent off. That's a big sale for a superstar who recently won his second NBA All-Star Game MVP and is looking to claim a third consecutive NBA Finals MVP in the next few months.

All anyone can talk about with Durant is speculation on where he will play next. And for good reason. Durant went on a nine-day silence with the media following the Knicks' trade of Kristaps Porzingis, and now it's been reported Porzingis wasn't too high on possibly playing with Durant.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 28, 2019, 10:43:54 AM
Bottom line:  Knick FO had to know that the Knick fans reaction to the trade would be massively unfavorable. 

So you only do such a thing if you:

A) Are crazy/hate NYC/are ready to get fired
B) Know something

Game theory suggests that the Knicks know something

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 28, 2019, 10:44:30 AM
And yes - I am concerned about a tampering charge coming if we sign KD.
Title: KP didn't want to play with KD
Post by: Kam on February 28, 2019, 10:56:34 AM
Knicks reporter, Ian Begley.

"There is the possibility that they (the Knicks) got the sense that he wasn't psyched of how aggressively they were going to court bigger names than him. That's possible.

"I'm confident after talking to a lot of people -- I don't think he was psyched about playing with Durant. I don't know how directly that was verbalized to the Knicks. I'm confident that it wasn't something that was like his Plan A he was super thrilled about it.

"He wanted to be the face of the franchise. I think that's known, that's fair. Kevin Durant will be the face of the franchise if he comes. That's it. That's decided.

"There are other guys who for various reasons I don't think would be the face of the franchise. Kemba Walker would not be. You could argue Kyrie Irving would not be if he were here with Porzingis. It would be close."

First and foremost, it needs to be made clear to everybody that Lowe is not specifically reporting that sources told him Porzingis flat out didn't want to play with KD. So don't get that twisted.

However, Lowe is as connected as it gets and he wouldn't just say something like this unless there was some degree of truth. His assertion is obviously newsworthy because of the connections between the reigning two-time Finals MVP and the Knicks.
Title: Fuck you KP
Post by: Kam on February 28, 2019, 11:01:16 AM
You wont be missed when we have KD.

You will be booed mercilessly for the rest of your life in New York.

You had the opportunity to be the face, or co-face, or eventual-face (when KD leaves)of the MOST VALUABLE FRANCHISE IN SPORTS.

Enjoy Texas and the culture of Cows Oil and Guns.  Cosmopolitan NYC says Buh-Bye in latvian.  Fuck you.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 28, 2019, 11:38:53 AM
You have so much anger in you. Maybe a therapist?

And you are only showing your extreme provincialism. Texas is a whole lot more than that. I love every trip down there.

Personally, I'm not going to boo him nor my fan friends, who, btw, could give a flying f' about how much the Knicks are worth. It's just not on their radar. They care about watching basketball.

And quite frankly, are jealous of the Mavs. It's a whole lot more satisfying watching two young stars develop and grow than the seeing the 13th and 14th seasons of a player who, while marvelously skilled, is the NBA's most extreme carpet-bagger to date and a proven failure as co-lead dog when not surrounded by existing champions. Will be interesting to see what happens if he is in fact joined here by a guy who not only believes in a flat earth, but seems to be proving out a pretty big failure as a lead dog himself.




Title: Root for the Mavs then
Post by: Kam on February 28, 2019, 12:48:54 PM
You're probably a fucking Cowboys fan too.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 28, 2019, 02:02:01 PM
Durant is an absolutely beautiful ball player.

If he wants to prove something and has the balls to head to a fucked-up franchise where he will be undeniably top dog, good for him. It's about time. That arrival washes away all past sins.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 28, 2019, 02:07:46 PM
One thing is Durant is often prickly with the media.
And where do you get more media attention than anywhere else?
In that way, it's an odd match.
Besides the fact that we likely have a gutted roster for him to join.

I really don't see KD to NYC, but the rumor is out there . . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 28, 2019, 03:28:42 PM
Knick management should be thinking of having Mitch and Knox long term, 10 year Knix.  Now that might not be possible, but that should be the thinking.  We need to develop players, keep them around, let fans watch them grow and root them. 


Frank Ntilikina - age 19  PER  7.0

Kevin Knox -  age 19   PER 8.1

How are you so sure on Knox?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 28, 2019, 03:37:21 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 28, 2019, 02:07:46 PM
One thing is Durant is often prickly with the media.
And where do you get more media attention than anywhere else?
In that way, it's an odd match.


Quote from: elephant on February 28, 2019, 02:02:01 PM
If he wants to prove something and has the balls to head to a fucked-up franchise where he will be undeniably top dog, good for him. It's about time. That arrival washes away all past sins.

These two quotes are useful. 

YES - Durant IS prickly to all Criticism.  Media. Social Media. Fans. Everyone.  He is a MILLENIAL.

But how better to prove himself and shut up ALL the critics who say his Titles are tainted by joining a Champion... (BTW it is interesting that Basketball is the sport where this criticism comes up most.  I never hear anyone getting criticized for joining the Patriots or Red Sox.) ... than by joining the Cleveland Cava....  err the New York Knickerbockers?

Kevin "Slim Shady" Durant is clearly, yet quietly, following the LeBron James Academy Career Plan.  He will have three titles to LeBron's three titles.  But LeBron's Cleveland title is worth more than his two with the Heatles.  Durant knows his three GS titles won't = LeBron's 2 Heat +1 Cav.

But if if IF IIIIIIIF Durant delivers NYC's first NBA Championship in 45-50 years??!   The chorus of voices coming from prisoner-of-the-moment fans and media calling Durant "Better than LeBron"  will be SO LOUD... it will be Kobestan-like in its insistence (It may be wrong but it will be LOUD wrong and mad annoying #MambaDementality (#post_MambaDementality)). 

And KD will have all of NYC backing him.  You don't need anyone else.  New Yorkers will make KD's case for him.  No burner accounts needed buddy!  We got dis.  You can even bring along a running mate of your choosing like Jimmy Butler (Fuck the Process), Kawhi Leonard (laughs nervously) or someone tired of all the entitled massholes up North.

This is the best possible scenario for Durant (minus the 50 million he will lose).... win a ring in NYC.   Out-ring LeBron.  He will make up a lot of that cash in other ways.  Look at how Clyde has parlayed his playing career.  He earns more now than he did playing. 

Being KING of NY is NO SMALL THING.

Come KD... your destiny awaits.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 28, 2019, 04:03:35 PM
I worry more about KD's age and viability throughout his contract than his ability to handle the media.

If for some reason he hates the Media so much and asks for a trade we will be able to recoup assets for him.

if he gets hurt (ala LeBron this year) we are farked (unless we get Kawhi also)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 28, 2019, 04:13:17 PM
Dont shoot so high

Take the one star that will come, keep the picks and add 3 mid range free agents for 3+ years each (include Jordan).

Then go to work for the 3 years, at which point we will have the seasoned young guys and also the one star who signed the max (to keep or swap)

3 fun seasons ahead.  Hope the coach doesnt need to be switched out.....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 28, 2019, 04:56:18 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 28, 2019, 04:13:17 PM
Dont shoot so high

Take the one star that will come, keep the picks and add 3 mid range free agents for 3+ years each (include Jordan).

Then go to work for the 3 years, at which point we will have the seasoned young guys and also the one star who signed the max (to keep or swap)

3 fun seasons ahead.  Hope the coach doesnt need to be switched out.....

Yes i agree.  I will be happy with just one.

And i agree about the fun being back... we control our own destiny. 

If we sign the right guys, great.  If we sign nobody, we can work with that too.

Multiple draft picks coming down the pipeline.   Current pups getting their game reps at the NBA level against the best.

Mitchell - genuine improvement (less fouling, more endurance)

Knox and Trier showing more than just flashes of their potentiates.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 28, 2019, 04:59:59 PM
If we offer DeAndre the mid-level ($9 mil) will he take it?

I think we keep one of DeAndre or Noah.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 28, 2019, 05:16:21 PM
I will add -----

if we have to deal 2-3 of the 7 picks to get someone we really desire - fine - as long as it is not next year's #1 and any pick has proper (top 10ish) protection.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 28, 2019, 05:33:00 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 28, 2019, 05:16:21 PM
I will add -----

if we have to deal 2-3 of the 7 picks to get someone we really desire - fine - as long as it is not next year's #1 and any pick has proper (top 10ish) protection.

Yep, after this season we are not a "trying to lose" team. (We only were a tank squad because KP was injured.) 

So i would be fine dealing the picks in the right deal.  No bargnani deals.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 28, 2019, 06:22:39 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 28, 2019, 04:13:17 PM
Dont shoot so high
Take the one star that will come, keep the picks and add 3 mid range free agents for 3+ years each (include Jordan).

I just don't get why one star would come.
KD, Kawhi, Kyrie, Butler are all on winning teams right now.
Why switch to a perennial loser with a young iffy roster?
At least if a star duo comes, you probably have a playoff team and can build around them.  But one prime star and it's probably Melo redux.

And speaking of ... the way Melo and Noah and KZ were treated doesn't exactly inspire confidence that the Knick organization is actually organized.  More like a place where careers and legacies go to die. . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 28, 2019, 06:23:17 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on February 28, 2019, 11:38:53 AM
You have so much anger in you. Maybe a therapist?

And you are only showing your extreme provincialism. Texas is a whole lot more than that. I love every trip down there.

Personally, I'm not going to boo him nor my fan friends, who, btw, could give a flying f' about how much the Knicks are worth. It's just not on their radar. They care about watching basketball.

And quite frankly, are jealous of the Mavs. It's a whole lot more satisfying watching two young stars develop and grow than the seeing the 13th and 14th seasons of a player who, while marvelously skilled, is the NBA's most extreme carpet-bagger to date and a proven failure as co-lead dog when not surrounded by existing champions. Will be interesting to see what happens if he is in fact joined here by a guy who not only believes in a flat earth, but seems to be proving out a pretty big failure as a lead dog himself.

What players do you see Cuban surrounding KP and Doncic with, Les?  Long road to catch up in the West.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 28, 2019, 06:25:21 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 28, 2019, 05:33:00 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 28, 2019, 05:16:21 PM
I will add -----

if we have to deal 2-3 of the 7 picks to get someone we really desire - fine - as long as it is not next year's #1 and any pick has proper (top 10ish) protection.

Yep, after this season we are not a "trying to lose" team. (We only were a tank squad because KP was injured.) 

So i would be fine dealing the picks in the right deal.  No bargnani deals.
Heh - we are not trying to lose NOW - which is what concerns me about the coach.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 28, 2019, 08:01:36 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 28, 2019, 06:25:21 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 28, 2019, 05:33:00 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 28, 2019, 05:16:21 PM
I will add -----

if we have to deal 2-3 of the 7 picks to get someone we really desire - fine - as long as it is not next year's #1 and any pick has proper (top 10ish) protection.

Yep, after this season we are not a "trying to lose" team. (We only were a tank squad because KP was injured.) 

So i would be fine dealing the picks in the right deal.  No bargnani deals.
Heh - we are not trying to lose NOW - which is what concerns me about the coach.

I'm not worried about the coach.  We are playing youth over experience.  Youth will find ways to lose because they haven't learned to win.

As an organization Knicks prioritized youth this year. 

No Noah. Very little Kanter. Very little LT.  Knicks didn't sign any veterans last offseason on more than a one year tender.

The Front Office and Coach are aligned  ... and not because they're the same person.

Knicks are pointed in the right direction.

Especially if the Dolan sale rumors are true.
Title: New Guy
Post by: Kam on February 28, 2019, 09:13:37 PM
Ellenson looks like he knows what he is doing.   Feels like he has been here all year.  He's the anti-Mario
Title: Tank Alert
Post by: carlos123 on February 28, 2019, 09:32:54 PM
We may be catching the Bulls very soon, and that would be really bad.

Goodbye 14%

(https://www.vgr.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/cavs-rumors-zion-williamson-nba-2k19-creation-600x300.jpg)
Title: Re: Tank Alert
Post by: Kam on February 28, 2019, 09:39:27 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 28, 2019, 09:32:54 PM
We may be catching the Bulls very soon, and that would be really bad.

Goodbye 14%

Hello 12.5%


it's basically the same odds thanks to Adam the Tank Killer Silver.
Title: Re: Tank Alert
Post by: carlos123 on February 28, 2019, 09:41:49 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 28, 2019, 09:39:27 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 28, 2019, 09:32:54 PM
We may be catching the Bulls very soon, and that would be really bad.

Goodbye 14%

Hello 12.5%


it's basically the same odds thanks to Adam the Tank Killer Silver.

Think about this, for an f'in 1.5%

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DwhfZZUVYAA1k-q.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 28, 2019, 09:55:09 PM
I don't think you get math.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 28, 2019, 10:05:48 PM
Back up to 15%!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 28, 2019, 10:06:49 PM
Never mind that RJ and Cam may be better pros than Zion.
Title: Phew!
Post by: carlos123 on February 28, 2019, 10:07:09 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 28, 2019, 09:55:09 PM
I don't think you get math.

And I don’t think you get a brain.

Wonderful loss! Very artful 👌
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 28, 2019, 11:16:54 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 28, 2019, 03:28:42 PM
Knick management should be thinking of having Mitch and Knox long term, 10 year Knix.  Now that might not be possible, but that should be the thinking.

Frank Ntilikina - age 19  PER  7.0
Kevin Knox -  age 19   PER 8.1
How are you so sure on Knox?

Knox has good size (needs to use it better) and athleticism, and some definite skills.  Don't know how his development will go, but there are encouraging signs.  It's a long season and there have been slumps and frustrating stretches.  But he was also rook of the month in Dec.
I'm most concerned about his D, but he can learn.  And he'll get stronger. 

I just think keeping a promising draftee long-term is the right way of thinking.   But you need some continuity and you need legit starters.  The goal should be developing Knox into a legit starter long-term that's all.  Events may intervene.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 28, 2019, 11:22:39 PM
heheh

Fiz again was trying to win

Not his fault their roster is better, I guess.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 28, 2019, 11:23:21 PM
Looks like the first strong game in a while for Vonleh.  Though he was solid v. ORL.
Datsun the only Knick with a game +. 
+15.
Knix were -25 in the 19 minutes he sat.

Knix got smoked in the 4Q.
Looks like a fine loss.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 01, 2019, 02:49:38 AM
Gives us wiggle room if we decide to win another game.

Knox seems to be pressing the last few games.

Ellison is getting a Jenkins style contract. We should still have him next year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on March 01, 2019, 03:48:35 AM
Quote from: Kam on February 28, 2019, 10:43:54 AM
Bottom line:  Knick FO had to know that the Knick fans reaction to the trade would be massively unfavorable. 

So you only do such a thing if you:

A) Are crazy/hate NYC/are ready to get fired
B) Know something

Game theory suggests that the Knicks know something

C) The hubris to believe these moves will lead to success without any assurance
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on March 01, 2019, 04:06:37 AM
Quote from: Kam on February 28, 2019, 04:59:59 PM
If we offer DeAndre the mid-level ($9 mil) will he take it?

I think we keep one of DeAndre or Noah.

We won't have the MLE as we'll be under the cap, but we will have the room and BAE.

For the sake of argument, say the Knicks, sign Durant and Kyrie. There will be something like $5-6m or so in cap space, depending on where we draft and presuming we waive all of IsoZo, Ellenson and Jenkins. If we can move Lance Thomas we can create an extra million in space. Additionally, there will be the room exception ($4.5 m) and the biannual exception (a bit over $3m).

If the Knicks trade for Davis after having signed KD and Kyrie, everyone on the roster including the 2019 draft pick but not Durant and Kyrie has to go; I suppose KD and Kyrie could take tiny discounts to allow Mitch and Dotson to stay or slightly bigger ones to allow one of DSJ, Knox or Ntilikina to stay. If the Knicks want to, say, trade for Beal, they have the flexibility to keep all the young guys save for two of Knox/Ntilikina/DSJ/draft pick.

IsoZo, Ellenson and Jenkins need to be either traded by 29 June, or waived, or we're not expecting to use all of our cap space and they will be retained. I'm guessing the Knicks will roll the dice. They can always be brought back once free agency shakes out.

Two guys to whom I wouldn't get too attached: Mudiay and DSJ. If the Knicks sign either Kemba or Kyrie, they're both gone for fit reasons. If the Knicks trade for Davis, they're both gone for cap reasons. If the Knicks sign KD and some all star who isn't a point guard, likely one stays while the Knicks pursue a Pat Beverley type for the other lead guard position and either trade DSJ or let Mudiay walk. If the Knicks completely strike out in free agency, I can see both coming back, but only on deal for Mudiay that is closer to the room exception than the MLE in terms of value. Similarly, there aren't too many scenarios where Vonleh (or Hezonja, for that matter) come back next year.

The one guy you can feel free to love: Mitch Robinson. He's cheap, he doesn't need the ball, he plays a game that's friendly next to superstars. Of all the Knicks yutes, he's the most likely to be on the team in 12 months. Caveat: the Pels will fight hard to get the New Orleans native included in any Davis deal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on March 01, 2019, 04:08:25 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 28, 2019, 05:16:21 PM
I will add -----

if we have to deal 2-3 of the 7 picks to get someone we really desire - fine - as long as it is not next year's #1 and any pick has proper (top 10ish) protection.

That might get you Beal, but if you're acquiring Davis and pairing him with Durant and/or Kyrie, I'm not too worried about protection next year.

If the Knicks win the lottery though, will we have to give up a lot of picks? Zion + DSJ with just one first rounder is still better than the Lakers offer, and if the Celtics don't include Tatum it beats whatever the Celtics can conjure.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on March 01, 2019, 04:14:44 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on March 01, 2019, 04:06:37 AM
Quote from: Kam on February 28, 2019, 04:59:59 PM
If we offer DeAndre the mid-level ($9 mil) will he take it?

I think we keep one of DeAndre or Noah.

We won't have the MLE as we'll be under the cap, but we will have the room and BAE.

For the sake of argument, say the Knicks, sign Durant and Kyrie. There will be something like $5-6m or so in cap space, depending on where we draft and presuming we waive all of IsoZo, Ellenson and Jenkins. If we can move Lance Thomas we can create an extra million in space. Additionally, there will be the room exception ($4.5 m) and the biannual exception (a bit over $3m).

If the Knicks trade for Davis after having signed KD and Kyrie, everyone on the roster including the 2019 draft pick but not Durant and Kyrie has to go; I suppose KD and Kyrie could take tiny discounts to allow Mitch and Dotson to stay or slightly bigger ones to allow one of DSJ, Knox or Ntilikina to stay. If the Knicks want to, say, trade for Beal, they have the flexibility to keep all the young guys save for two of Knox/Ntilikina/DSJ/draft pick.

Extending the Davis/Durant/Kyrie fantasy: I think it's reasonable to expect a tiny discount to at least keep Mitch. Perhaps Dot as well. That would mean you have those five players on your roster and nobody else, and then $4.5m and $3.5m exceptions to fill out the roster before asking players to take vet minimums. A lot of good vets are going to consider those exceptions, especially given the playing time and exposure. The types of players I see in play are Taj Gibson, Jeremy Lin, Cory Joseph, Iman Shumpert, Mike Muscala....DeAndre Jordan and Noah Vonleh would be nice but they might be just too pricey. Emmanual Mudiay wouldn't be the best fit, as much as a back-up PG would be a priority given Kyrie's injury history.

There's a clear championship contender in there, by the way, but this is of course presuming a lottery win, a few landmark defections in free agency, and a couple different players agreeing to leave varying degrees of money on the table to play at MSG.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 01, 2019, 05:28:26 AM
If we give Lance his guaranteed million to go away and renounce Mudiay, we can QO Kornet and pick up all the options on Jenkins, Ellison, and Trier and still be under 33 million committed. We’ll have about 75 mil in cap space that way, 10 mil less if we get Zion though the odds are better it will be in the 7-5 mil range + 1.5 for the second rounder. Kornet and Trier give or take Jenkins lets you absorb the pick and keep the 75. They might have to go depending on the pick. I’d like to keep Trier and Ellison.

Mitch
Ellison
Knox
Dotson Trier
DJS Frank

Adding Zion to that group would be nice, but I’m warming up to DeAndre Hunter at UVA, especially if picking him means taking him at a spot where his salary lets us keep Zo.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on March 01, 2019, 06:27:11 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 01, 2019, 05:28:26 AM
If we give Lance his guaranteed million to go away and renounce Mudiay, we can QO Kornet and pick up all the options on Jenkins, Ellison, and Trier and still be under 33 million committed. We’ll have about 75 mil in cap space that way, 10 mil less if we get Zion though the odds are better it will be in the 7-5 mil range + 1.5 for the second rounder. Kornet and Trier give or take Jenkins lets you absorb the pick and keep the 75. They might have to go depending on the pick. I’d like to keep Trier and Ellison.

Mitch
Ellison
Knox
Dotson Trier
DJS Frank

Adding Zion to that group would be nice, but I’m warming up to DeAndre Hunter at UVA, especially if picking him means taking him at a spot where his salary lets us keep Zo.

Cost in millions:


Frank 4.9
DSJ 4.5
Knox 4.4
IsoZo 3.5 (my error, this is the biannual exception, which means we don't have it for anyone else)
Ellenson 1.7 (guaranteed on 29 June)
Dot 1.6 (guaranteed on 15 July)
Mitch 1.6
Jenkins 1.7

Rookie contract: 6.8/6.1/5.5/4.9/4.5/4.0 (depending on where we draft...so Zion costs 6.8, RJ 6.1, etc)
Noah 6.4 dead cap
Lance 1.0 guaranteed (7.6 otherwise)

Kornet cap hold = 2.1
Mudiay cap hold = 12.9
Second rounder cap hold = 0
Roster charges = 900k per spot

Max spot for 10 yr vets (eg Durant) 38.2 (presuming 109m cap)
Max spot for 7-9 yr vets (eg Kyrie, Kemba) 32.7


So, in your scenario (note we don't pay for the second rounder until after our cap space is used), assuming we pick second overall, we actually have ~67.8 million left over by my math, once you factor in all the various forms of dead money. Maybe you get Durant/KD with that, but that means they're leaving three million on the table. Casting aside Jenkins and Ellenson saves, total, 1.5 million (because we'd still have to pay for their roster spots), and trading Lance saves us a million (which should be doable if we simply pay the cash to do it).

But that doesn't leave any money for DeAndre or Vonleh or anyone else, unless one of them is coming for the room exception. And it means Mudiay is gone.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 01, 2019, 09:58:31 AM
Knicks would TRADE Dennis Smith, not just let him go - and Kyrie or Kemba coming - or a deal for Conley are the only scenarios I see this would happen.

Have to have something to show for KP in terms of talent (not just relief and picks)

My guess is he stays next year as starter or second unit PG.  If we strike out on a lot of guys, Mudiay has a chance to return as a combo guard.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 01, 2019, 11:03:31 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on March 01, 2019, 03:48:35 AM
Quote from: Kam on February 28, 2019, 10:43:54 AM
Bottom line:  Knick FO had to know that the Knick fans reaction to the trade would be massively unfavorable. 

So you only do such a thing if you:

A) Are crazy/hate NYC/are ready to get fired
B) Know something

Game theory suggests that the Knicks know something

C) The hubris to believe these moves will lead to success without any assurance

There are no assurances in any path.  You take the path that has the brightest outlook.

What assurance did we have that a supposedly less than thrilled KP and $27mil in cap would lead us past Philly Toronto Boston Milwaukee Indiana

That spells out a middling team to me unless we struck GOLD with the draft picks.

Two max guys... or the right max guy and a trio of very good players AND two more picks....that's an opportunity to raise the ceiling on this teams' potential.

They were MORE sure of this path leading to greater opportunity than hitching the wagon to the Unicorn with a Broken leg.

Best laid plans and all.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 01, 2019, 11:05:51 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 01, 2019, 02:49:38 AM

Ellison is getting a Jenkins style contract. We should still have him next year.

Smart moves.  Rather than pickup some minimum contract vets in the summer, you build some continuity from this roster to the next. Trier Jenkins and Ellenson get an extended look.  But we will have decisions to make come next year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 01, 2019, 11:20:56 AM
Quote from: Kam on March 01, 2019, 11:03:31 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on March 01, 2019, 03:48:35 AM
Quote from: Kam on February 28, 2019, 10:43:54 AM
Bottom line:  Knick FO had to know that the Knick fans reaction to the trade would be massively unfavorable. 

So you only do such a thing if you:

A) Are crazy/hate NYC/are ready to get fired
B) Know something

Game theory suggests that the Knicks know something

C) The hubris to believe these moves will lead to success without any assurance

There are no assurances in any path.  You take the path that has the brightest outlook.

What assurance did we have that a supposedly less than thrilled KP and $27mil in cap would lead us past Philly Toronto Boston Milwaukee Indiana

That spells out a middling team to me unless we struck GOLD with the draft picks.

Two max guys... or the right max guy and a trio of very good players AND two more picks....that's an opportunity to raise the ceiling on this teams' potential.

They were MORE sure of this path leading to greater opportunity than hitching the wagon to the Unicorn with a Broken leg.

Best laid plans and all.

I think KP and Mitch would have been nice together defensively.  KP, Mudiay and Tim effective at the other end.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 01, 2019, 11:33:09 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on March 01, 2019, 04:14:44 AM

There's a clear championship contender in there, by the way, but this is of course presuming a lottery win, a few landmark defections in free agency, and a couple different players agreeing to leave varying degrees of money on the table to play at MSG.

The fact that you can say that there is a clear path to a championship NOW ....  that was the point of the KP trade.

There was no clear path before unless injured unhappy KP became the best player in the League AND we got value from the $27 mil AND landed a Zion.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 01, 2019, 11:37:18 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 01, 2019, 11:20:56 AM
Quote from: Kam on March 01, 2019, 11:03:31 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on March 01, 2019, 03:48:35 AM
Quote from: Kam on February 28, 2019, 10:43:54 AM
Bottom line:  Knick FO had to know that the Knick fans reaction to the trade would be massively unfavorable. 

So you only do such a thing if you:

A) Are crazy/hate NYC/are ready to get fired
B) Know something

Game theory suggests that the Knicks know something

C) The hubris to believe these moves will lead to success without any assurance

There are no assurances in any path.  You take the path that has the brightest outlook.

What assurance did we have that a supposedly less than thrilled KP and $27mil in cap would lead us past Philly Toronto Boston Milwaukee Indiana

That spells out a middling team to me unless we struck GOLD with the draft picks.

Two max guys... or the right max guy and a trio of very good players AND two more picks....that's an opportunity to raise the ceiling on this teams' potential.

They were MORE sure of this path leading to greater opportunity than hitching the wagon to the Unicorn with a Broken leg.

Best laid plans and all.

I think KP and Mitch would have been nice together defensively.  KP, Mudiay and Tim effective at the other end.

Sure. I'd go along with that.  But does "nice defensively" and "effective offensively" get you to a Finals? Let alone winning one?

The beauty of the Durant plan is it hurts the team we would meet in the Finals.

And if that secondary player is a Kawhi or a Butler you hurt a team in your way to the finals.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 01, 2019, 01:05:03 PM
Never know who GS adds should they lose KD and Klay
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 01, 2019, 01:23:57 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on March 01, 2019, 04:06:37 AM


The one guy you can feel free to love: Mitch Robinson. He's cheap, he doesn't need the ball, he plays a game that's friendly next to superstars. Of all the Knicks yutes, he's the most likely to be on the team in 12 months. Caveat: the Pels will fight hard to get the New Orleans native included in any Davis deal.

One for One!   Straight up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 01, 2019, 01:24:55 PM
Quote from: Kam on March 01, 2019, 01:23:57 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on March 01, 2019, 04:06:37 AM


The one guy you can feel free to love: Mitch Robinson. He's cheap, he doesn't need the ball, he plays a game that's friendly next to superstars. Of all the Knicks yutes, he's the most likely to be on the team in 12 months. Caveat: the Pels will fight hard to get the New Orleans native included in any Davis deal.

One for One!   Straight up.

Don't wanna hear Les say we gave up EIGHT starters, lol, for AD.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 01, 2019, 01:25:49 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 01, 2019, 01:05:03 PM
Never know who GS adds should they lose KD and Klay

Trade for Love?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 01, 2019, 02:35:16 PM
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-rookie-power-rankings-trae-young-takes-top-spot-from-luka-doncic-after-entertainingly-productive-week/ (https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-rookie-power-rankings-trae-young-takes-top-spot-from-luka-doncic-after-entertainingly-productive-week/)

3 Knick rooks in top ten this week
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 01, 2019, 02:53:10 PM
I would like to see Trae Young finish strong and steal some ROY votes from Doncic.  Dallas may yet lose on that deal depending on who the pick becomes.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 01, 2019, 03:36:17 PM
What do we know about Western Kentucky's Charles Bassey, currently slated to go to Hawks at #12 after they take Reddish at 5?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 01, 2019, 04:00:30 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 01, 2019, 03:36:17 PM
What do we know about Western Kentucky's Charles Bassey, currently slated to go to Hawks at #12 after they take Reddish at 5?

Reddish is a Top3 or 4 player.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 01, 2019, 05:13:21 PM
Hasnt been great

Superior athlete.  Some better actual basketball players out there.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 01, 2019, 08:57:49 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 01, 2019, 05:13:21 PM
Hasnt been great

Superior athlete.  Some better actual basketball players out there.

Bassey or Reddish?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 01, 2019, 09:02:53 PM
Reddish

He's a scattershot - and takes plenty of bad ones.  Bad trait for a wing player.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 01, 2019, 09:19:04 PM
3 TO’s to .7 assists raise some questions about a big man. His conference says postseason and Portsmouth (if they’re still doing that) would be a big deal for Bassey.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 02, 2019, 12:35:49 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 01, 2019, 09:02:53 PM
Reddish

He's a scattershot - and takes plenty of bad ones.  Bad trait for a wing player.

Isn't that why they have Coaches.  Is Coach K exploiting all of Cam's game?
Title: LeWhat?
Post by: Kam on March 02, 2019, 12:52:37 AM
Brandon Ingram waiving off LeBron James calling for the ball in a one possession game.... oooh weee
Title: Even KP didn't wanna go to Texas
Post by: Kam on March 02, 2019, 12:58:43 AM
Quote
The Knicks shopped Porzingis for weeks before pulling the trigger on Feb. 6, just hours after a four-minute meeting where Porzingis declared his desire to be traded to either the Raptors, Heat, Nets or Clippers. The Knicks knew a trade request was coming and acted swiftly, using Porzingis to dump ugly contracts and create enough cap space for two max free agents this summer.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 02, 2019, 01:00:03 AM
He wanted out.  Says Knicks fans deserve better.  He wasnt treated well enough.

Sounds liike he thought HE deserved better.
Title: Re: LeWhat?
Post by: facilitatorn on March 02, 2019, 01:58:31 AM
Quote from: Kam on March 02, 2019, 12:52:37 AM
Brandon Ingram waiving off LeBron James calling for the ball in a one possession game.... oooh weee

The Lakers seem very unlikely to make the postseason cut at this point.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on March 02, 2019, 02:55:22 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 01, 2019, 03:36:17 PM
What do we know about Western Kentucky's Charles Bassey, currently slated to go to Hawks at #12 after they take Reddish at 5?

Mostly that no respectable draft site would have him going 12th.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on March 02, 2019, 02:56:47 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 01, 2019, 09:58:31 AM
Knicks would TRADE Dennis Smith, not just let him go - and Kyrie or Kemba coming - or a deal for Conley are the only scenarios I see this would happen.

Ugh....he's under contract. Nobody suggested the Knicks were going to "just let him go".

If Kyrie or Kemba come, I see DSJ traded for someone like Mikal Bridges.
Title: 2018 Redraft
Post by: thebizneverloses on March 02, 2019, 02:59:16 AM
(assuming no trades)

1. Phoenix – Doncic (3)

2. Sacto – JJJ (4)

3. Atlanta – Trae (5)

4. Memphis – Bags (2)

5. Dallas - Ayton (1) (would this have meant no Porzingis trade?)

6. Orlando - Shai (11)

7. Chicago – WCJ (7)

8. Cleveland – Mitchell Robinson (36)

9. New York - Knox (9)

10. Philadelphia – MPJ (14)

11. Charlotte - Huerter (19)

12. Clippers – Mikal  (10)

13. Clippers - Bamba (6)

14. Denver – Bob Williams (27)

15. Washington – Miles (11)

16. Phoenix – Sexton (8)

17. Milwaukee – Kurucs (40)

18. San Antonio – Zhaire (16)

19. Atlanta – Shamet (26)

20. Minnesota – Okogie (20)

21. Utah – IsoZo (undrafted)

22. Chicago – Hutchinson (22)

23. Indiana - LW IV (18)

24. Portland – Holiday (23)

25. Lakers – Melton (46)

26. Philadelphia – Musa (29)

27. Boston – Vanderbilt (41)

28. Golden State – Brunson (33)

29. Brooklyn – K. Williams (undrafted)

30. Atlanta – Diallo (45)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 02, 2019, 02:54:44 PM
So if we can only keep one (for whatever reason) who do people favor: Datsun or Tryer?

I really haven't seen enough the past month or two to decide.  Dot might be a more complete player, with Try able to go off more.  But again, I haven't seen enough.
I guess I'm largely wondering which of them is more likely to become consistent. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 02, 2019, 03:09:55 PM
Dot is a wing who can play SF or SG. Zo is a combo guard. For a combined 5 million, definitely keep both.
Title: Re: 2018 Redraft
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 02, 2019, 03:16:00 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on March 02, 2019, 02:59:16 AM
(assuming no trades)

1. Phoenix – Doncic (3)

2. Sacto – JJJ (4)

3. Atlanta – Trae (5)

4. Memphis – Bags (2)

5. Dallas - Ayton (1) (would this have meant no Porzingis trade?)

6. Orlando - Shai (11)

7. Chicago – WCJ (7)

8. Cleveland – Mitchell Robinson (36)

9. New York - Knox (9)

10. Philadelphia – MPJ (14)

11. Charlotte - Huerter (19)

12. Clippers – Mikal  (10)

13. Clippers - Bamba (6)

14. Denver – Bob Williams (27)

15. Washington – Miles (11)

16. Phoenix – Sexton (8)

17. Milwaukee – Kurucs (40)

18. San Antonio – Zhaire (16)

19. Atlanta – Shamet (26)

20. Minnesota – Okogie (20)

21. Utah – IsoZo (undrafted)

22. Chicago – Hutchinson (22)

23. Indiana - LW IV (18)

24. Portland – Holiday (23)

25. Lakers – Melton (46)

26. Philadelphia – Musa (29)

27. Boston – Vanderbilt (41)

28. Golden State – Brunson (33)

29. Brooklyn – K. Williams (undrafted)

30. Atlanta – Diallo (45)



Hmmm

Interesting exercise.

Knicks pass on Bomba?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 02, 2019, 03:17:35 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on March 02, 2019, 02:56:47 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 01, 2019, 09:58:31 AM
Knicks would TRADE Dennis Smith, not just let him go - and Kyrie or Kemba coming - or a deal for Conley are the only scenarios I see this would happen.

Ugh....he's under contract. Nobody suggested the Knicks were going to "just let him go".

If Kyrie or Kemba come, I see DSJ traded for someone like Mikal Bridges.

Right

And I don't.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 02, 2019, 05:19:27 PM
He’s a bit older, but while we still have a 15th spot I’d like to give CJ Fair a look

http://youtu.be/am_y8Y5IkMM (http://youtu.be/am_y8Y5IkMM)

Last month, against the mighty Westchester Knicks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 02, 2019, 09:15:40 PM
Nah....

from China it shall come.
Title: Chico Fredette and The Boss
Post by: carlos123 on March 02, 2019, 10:01:38 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 02, 2019, 09:15:40 PM
Nah....

from China it shall come.

Q-Who's Number 10 in China, Chico Fredette or The Boss?

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/r3aMWofHocjl4eNd5rLQATCc50_Umold_6NDDcZY8l9rNRh3NbELR6UHZYLr-pqMNeI3LS5HHYg27Km6k-fsVZL30nQg2-WnzER-kjx3DOUuIVhiHZLzaYwU2ark5qtE8NNLG8zw3wi4ksZhdcX9nOqPddQsfsIV6TFIEIudOwzAh-9EKOUW3n9PUXUgO4sc9CIKPJuWemggovA_5RYKKnBG1Gb510NOcsa5BEipatObemSp5QxnVt9pNX5rfJynrGi8uw6fgr5CHD2X_YOI0rH9Z2KxtSzzAr-i0sycem_RywJJVQEvalkjiI_JV7_bacA3jIcmfQu3sT4vK7CzXNyuZugvCvtGQFusRf6_mTU8cWTGwFcBTBRPTe33_oL0FNx2ibaXZDIUbYZTUe8RjHT7dpm1mEH1jXvcPrKtw-Z9Vyq2qG70K6wOFbNqCM5cgVa61jjpweFgFJk_tT7Gzbw4SiZlaNtG8jGYj2EVcWtOS4ypa0hm4RACxYCKsnO8Of8doXrMpWW4tTIzd2FdxlZL5uqdKZbWqmwlSMlXhdBxcSFNMjEUqH38Wz5vWeU9O1UBXhjEvAf8TUMl0mieDuBS3O-PiCkqYF3u180qPo9cze3pqyWeeB-7w9391bQUonyGa_mZmDS4H2LNH2LjSDLzI9sh3F4=w960-h539-no)

A-In China, it's Fredette.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 02, 2019, 10:59:02 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 02, 2019, 09:15:40 PM
Nah....

from China it shall come.

Would definitely welcome Beasley back, but that will have to be next year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 03, 2019, 03:02:00 AM
There’s a way to keep Mudiay without having a bonkers $12 mil cap hold killing our free agency options. Get him to agree to a one year or year and a player option deal starting at no more than $6 mil, sign him up right away, then kiss Lance goodbye. We wind up paying Lance money to keep Mudiay and push him further while freeing up some cap space we’d block by dealing with it later. This makes more sense if we go frontcourt in the draft. If he thinks he can get more elsewhere then we all move on.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jerrya on March 03, 2019, 12:35:53 PM
I just had a wake up call...Looking back, I would have never bet we would only have 13 wins going into March.  Something is definitely wrong with this organization.  It's not like they don't have the market or money to run a franchise. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 03, 2019, 03:41:08 PM
We pushed our way firmly into the deep lotto off of the spectacular play of THJ and Kanter along with a green ass pg crew and a diaper wearing supporting cast. It led to a ton of losses.

We shuffled our roster, improving our Cap and our personnel. The reshuffle creates a holy mess. We keep losing.

We’re sort of figuring some stuff out and looking like a middling core, on the cheap, with some room to grow.

Hard to see a lot of the growth in games like we just played. Gallo and Shamet blitzed us our the door.
Title: The Real Growth
Post by: carlos123 on March 03, 2019, 09:55:23 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 03, 2019, 03:41:08 PM

Hard to see a lot of the growth in games like we just played. Gallo and Shamet blitzed us our the door.

(https://chumley.barstoolsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/21/8zrk2qiaqlu11.jpg)

We pretty much in the clear for the 14%

And phuck AD and the king's ransom demanded by NO. We have Jordan and Mitchell. Concentrate on free agents!
Title: Trades
Post by: Kam on March 04, 2019, 03:08:17 AM
Don't neglect trades just because AD would cost a fortune.

Look for fire sales.

I think we can pretty much have Kevin Love if we want him.

I don't like his salary though.  They might need to include a #1
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 04, 2019, 09:46:45 AM
I think the Cavs plan is to build with Sexton and Love.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 04, 2019, 12:59:14 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 04, 2019, 09:46:45 AM
I think the Cavs plan is to build with Sexton and Love.

Sexton is 20 and Love is 30.  By the time Collin is ready to be an All-Star the Love will have faded.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 04, 2019, 03:52:09 PM
Sprinkle in RJ Barrett's first 4 seasons......
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 04, 2019, 05:35:24 PM
It doesn't make sense for Cleveland to let Love play into his dotage and get nothing for him. 

Knicks got lucky with the Melo haul.  Mitchell Robinson is a keeper and Mudiay had a career year.  Might remain a Knick.

Not bad for a guy we didn't want to pay/play.
Title: This just for fun
Post by: carlos123 on March 04, 2019, 09:47:34 PM
(https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2019/03/04/USAT/eba2e424-9a0b-4309-8ae5-d6fa014ec806-AP_Trump.JPG?width=540&height=&fit=bounds&auto=webp)

NO HAMBERDERS TODAY

Oh, and if the Cavaliers don't want Kevin Softie Love, they can send him to the Lakers.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 04, 2019, 10:29:35 PM
Cavs have won 5 of the 7 games Love has played since his return.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 04, 2019, 10:41:02 PM
Knix twice, Suns once ...

I think they'd love to cash Love in for yute and cheaper contracts.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 05, 2019, 04:14:21 AM
Did somebody call an Uber?
27 & 13 w/ 3 Blocks as PHX knocked off 1st place MIL and put the Knix into last place.  Uber had 17 FT's, but kiid will probably focus on his sad and lamentable 1 assist.

LeBJ hasn't exactly delivered playoff mode.
I saw the 2nd half of a loss to lowly ATL last week, and LeBJ was pretty poor on both ends for the first 4 minutes of the 4Q. 
Another game, LAL was down 5 with 45 seconds and LBJ missed a pair of FT's.
The other game he inbounded the ball into the back of the backboard for a turnover.  They lost to PHX.

There's already been some talk Lakes would be better off trading LBJ.
I'd rather keep Lonzo, Ingram, Kuz and adding to them (I would have kept Zubac too), rather than cash in your yute for a hoped-for vet title run with LeBJ.   I'd also rather stick with Luke than get TyLu or whatever Friend of LeBron replaces him as coach next year.

I'm not sure what contract LBJ is on, and whether a trade is feasible or requires his permission. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on March 05, 2019, 08:34:00 AM
Lebron's contract can totally be moved. But obviously it will never happen. a) It's the Lakers, they don't ship out stars (especially not with Magic/Rob Lowe running the show) and b) Lebron moved to LA for more than just basketball reasons. He doesn't want to go to Indianapolis or Salt Lake City.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 05, 2019, 01:06:35 PM
Well, in between championship runs, they missed the playoffs two years in a row with Kobe (iirc), then brought in Pau.
But LeBJ is aging.

Supposedly Lakes were getting close to adding Melo until they started losing to crappy teams and looked like they won't make the playoffs.

What would BOS give to get LBJ?
PHI could move Simmons.
Hell, work out a 3-way where LBJ gets somewhere he wants to be, and AD comes to LAL.  That's make it worth the Lakes while.  Get a 25 year old Top player for a 34 year old one.  Involve Celts, they have assets they can part with.  team up LBJ and Kyrie again!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 05, 2019, 01:20:39 PM
Young players are rejecting LeBron.  Kristaps had the Clippers on his list.  Lakers have tied their fortunes to LeBron.  LeBron would never agree to a trade.  It would be another thing his critics would use against him.  He is stuck there.  The clever clippers will have Kawhi and the best record in LA for years to come.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 05, 2019, 05:06:10 PM
Get to see Oubre tomorrow night.  He should kill the Knicks

I hear they may just let him and Iso go 1 v 1 the entire 4th.

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 05, 2019, 06:55:49 PM
Quote from: Kam on March 04, 2019, 05:35:24 PM
It doesn't make sense for Cleveland to let Love play into his dotage and get nothing for him. 


That's my worry with Durant. He'll be 31 when we get him. I think after we sign him we should trade him before the season starts.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 05, 2019, 09:38:43 PM
Quote from: Kam on March 05, 2019, 01:20:39 PM
Young players are rejecting LeBron.  Kristaps had the Clippers on his list.  Lakers have tied their fortunes to LeBron.  LeBron would never agree to a trade.  It would be another thing his critics would use against him.  He is stuck there.  The clever clippers will have Kawhi and the best record in LA for years to come.

I will take that bet
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 06, 2019, 12:17:41 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on March 05, 2019, 06:55:49 PM
Quote from: Kam on March 04, 2019, 05:35:24 PM
It doesn't make sense for Cleveland to let Love play into his dotage and get nothing for him. 


That's my worry with Durant. He'll be 31 when we get him. I think after we sign him we should trade him before the season starts.

We only have 4 years we’re giving. I think KD is a reliable all star till 35. You hope by that point younger players have seasoned up and KD can take a lesser role. If we can starphuck without shedding youth or picks, I’m less against it than I am most years. I’d be more ready to buy avoiding big rep big salary guys this summer and building through picks and guys still trying to make their bones, with the Reddick style contracts for mentors to get us up to the cap floor.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 06, 2019, 01:16:56 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 06, 2019, 12:17:41 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on March 05, 2019, 06:55:49 PM
Quote from: Kam on March 04, 2019, 05:35:24 PM
It doesn't make sense for Cleveland to let Love play into his dotage and get nothing for him. 


That's my worry with Durant. He'll be 31 when we get him. I think after we sign him we should trade him before the season starts.

We only have 4 years we’re giving. I think KD is a reliable all star till 35. You hope by that point younger players have seasoned up and KD can take a lesser role. If we can starphuck without shedding youth or picks, I’m less against it than I am most years. I’d be more ready to buy avoiding big rep big salary guys this summer and building through picks and guys still trying to make their bones, with the Reddick style contracts for mentors to get us up to the cap floor.

And KD is a Top 5 player while K Love is a Top 35 player.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 06, 2019, 01:20:04 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 05, 2019, 09:38:43 PM
Quote from: Kam on March 05, 2019, 01:20:39 PM
Young players are rejecting LeBron.  Kristaps had the Clippers on his list.  Lakers have tied their fortunes to LeBron.  LeBron would never agree to a trade.  It would be another thing his critics would use against him.  He is stuck there.  The clever clippers will have Kawhi and the best record in LA for years to come.

I will take that bet

Ok... if i said in the next 5 seasons (not counting this one) the Clippers will have the Better W-L  Record at least 3 out of the 5 seasons....



Would you take that bet? And what is the wager?
Title: Since the trade deadline
Post by: Kam on March 06, 2019, 01:29:09 AM
Knicks have a better record than the Mavericks.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on March 06, 2019, 02:38:30 AM
Quote from: Kam on March 06, 2019, 01:16:56 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 06, 2019, 12:17:41 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on March 05, 2019, 06:55:49 PM
Quote from: Kam on March 04, 2019, 05:35:24 PM
It doesn't make sense for Cleveland to let Love play into his dotage and get nothing for him. 


That's my worry with Durant. He'll be 31 when we get him. I think after we sign him we should trade him before the season starts.

We only have 4 years we’re giving. I think KD is a reliable all star till 35. You hope by that point younger players have seasoned up and KD can take a lesser role. If we can starphuck without shedding youth or picks, I’m less against it than I am most years. I’d be more ready to buy avoiding big rep big salary guys this summer and building through picks and guys still trying to make their bones, with the Reddick style contracts for mentors to get us up to the cap floor.

And KD is a Top 5 player while K Love is a Top 35 player.

Agree, Kam, but I'd add that I don't think the plan is to just sign Durant.

The Lakers would have made the playoffs had they kept Lopez (instead of Beasley) and Randle (instead of Lance and half of Rondo's contract...nobody else was giving him that much money). It may have cost McGee, but otherwise the Lakers had a terrible off-season and had they simply kept two of their own FAs, they'd be alright.

Also, Wagner and Svi provided nothing. Kinda tough to expect them to do so given where they were drafted, but the Lakers had a recent history of drafting well late in drafts. Didn't work this year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 06, 2019, 05:26:03 AM
Should've kept Zubac, instead of adding TyC.
Not that that necessarily impacted this year, but certainly a long term blunder.

The trade was Zub for Muscala.  Muscat's not bad but hasn't done bupkus for the Lakes yet.  But Zubac is a nice rim protector and can score inside.  Young guy (just 21) with a nice feel for the game.

Reportedly, Lakes wanted to get rid of Beasley (CLips simply waived him; no contract next year) and JaVale was unhappy Zu took his lunch money.  Lakes weren't sure about re-signing Zubac, but I would have worried about that over the Summer.  As I never tire of noting the C market is all a-glut, and C's aren't getting paid Big Money anymore unless they are Top 7 or so.  Bropez is making what, $4M or so.

Anywho, I like Zubac and as he gets more used to the NBA game, muscles up a little more, cuts down on fouls, he can become a real nice starting C.  Just 21.  Nice steal for Doc's Clips.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 06, 2019, 06:57:31 AM
I know Durant to NYK is the rumor, but I don't see KD or any other lone FA choosing to come to the Knix.

Next year will be Durant age 31.  Still in his prime but on the downslope.  Even with a 2-star addition it's real hard to see the Knix competing for the East title next year.  But with Durant as the lone star addition (and the draftpick and minor tweaks), Knix just a Road playoff team.  Even in the two star model (let's say KD and Kyrie), it probably takes 2 to 3 years to be truly competitive.  Just adding KD means he is guaranteed of wasting 2-4 years towards the end of his career treading water in NY.  What's the point?   A lot of better team/Win Now options available for him. 

So basically Knix need to hit on 2 FA's.  Draw two cards to try to his on a straight flush. 

If anyone can make a case as to why Durant (or another single star) would come to NYK, I'd love to hear it . . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 06, 2019, 08:30:33 AM
Case has already been made all over the press.

Only KD knows.

I still say Fizdale is a deterrent.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 06, 2019, 08:47:25 AM
Zubacka is not signed for next season.
Title: Re: Since the trade deadline
Post by: lesterluv on March 06, 2019, 12:08:38 PM
Quote from: Kam on March 06, 2019, 01:29:09 AM
Knicks have a better record than the Mavericks.

That's got to be the idea. Mavs can up their chances of keeping their pick to almost 40%.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 06, 2019, 12:10:09 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 06, 2019, 05:26:03 AM
Lakes weren't sure about re-signing Zubac, but I would have worried about that over the Summer.  As I never tire of noting the C market is all a-glut, and C's aren't getting paid Big Money anymore

Twas noted.

Re KD, why would he or any other single star come to an ultra-young Knick team?  I just don't see it at all.  Even two FA stars coming to NYK probably only means a Top 5 East team likely a few years away from genuine contention.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 06, 2019, 12:26:27 PM
Odd ORL-PHI game.
Magic go on a nice run to get within 2 with 7 mins left.  Then an extended 3 minute sequence where both teams miss really easy shots (Simmons blows a putback right at the rim somehow).  Followed by another 2 minute sequence where everybody gets the ball poked away.  Twice a strip is followed by a re-turnover. 

Finally Butler asserts himself by making a pair of turnaround J's and stealing a pass.  Plus pokes away the ball when Vuc was posting him down deep.  Nice two-way game-winning work from Butler who only had 6 points going into the 4Q. 

Finally with 1 min left, Mike Scott bombs in a 3 to put PHI up 6.  Scott had spent most of the 4Q being a mistake player and I was surprised they left him in so long, while he was busy offensive fouling (x2), throwing a pass into the stands, blowing a defensive coverage, and airballing a 3.  One of those guys with talent and effort whose concentration seems iffy.  Be interesting to see how he does in the playoffs.  I favor Amir who is less flashy but solid on both ends.  I'm not sure how well his body parts are functioning but did see him rise up to oop an alley, or whichever way that works.

ORL has an interesting young team.  They really need a legit starting PG.  And someone who can get his own shot in crunch time.  Last few times I've seen them lately, they rely on Fournier when they need a basket.  He tries, but isn't as good as he thinks he is.  But a real PG would help down the stretch of what seems a lot of close ORL games.

Embiid was out for PHI.
But they kind of slog around sometimes and don't often seem to find a killer instinct.  Let teams hang around. 

I have TOR coming out of the East.  BOS has the talent, but Kyrie is a mopey/poor leader.  And if they remain in the 5 slot, it's going to be awfully hard to get through, especially if IND holds on to 3rd, so then  BOS would have to meet PHI, then MIL, followed by likely TOR.  That's a gauntlet, compounded by doing it on the road.  MIL doesn't have the experience, and I think the one-man show is more regular season than playoffs.  PHI will be a tough out, but also inexperienced and they can get into funks.  Also, teams can game plan Simmons in a series.  TOR
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 06, 2019, 08:33:59 PM
FULTZIE leads Magic next year

Team option for 12.3 mil in '20-'21.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 06, 2019, 09:03:08 PM
https://twitter.com/mariohezonja/status/1103343532922814466 (https://twitter.com/mariohezonja/status/1103343532922814466)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 06, 2019, 10:42:47 PM
Fultz, in theory.
Good trade/gamble for ORL.

Tuned in just before the half.
Uber in foul trouble.
Mud with a dirty 4 turnovers in 9 mins.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 06, 2019, 10:50:31 PM
Trier loves to push off with the off arm.
For some reason they let that go this year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 06, 2019, 11:30:19 PM
Solid game from Uber.
18 & 4 + 2 steals in 28 mins.
Good offensive variety.
Popped a pair 3's.  A nice drive or two.  A baseline cut.
Trier too small to guard him.  Knox too inattentive.
Ube also has a nice block on Hellenson in the paint.
Missed the 1st half and his 1st 3 fouls, but I'd imagine they involved effort at least.

Knix guard play was terrible.  (maybe Dot excepted, I didn't see much of him really)
A well-deserved L.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on March 06, 2019, 11:46:35 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 06, 2019, 06:57:31 AM
I know Durant to NYK is the rumor, but I don't see KD or any other lone FA choosing to come to the Knix.

Next year will be Durant age 31.  Still in his prime but on the downslope.  Even with a 2-star addition it's real hard to see the Knix competing for the East title next year.  But with Durant as the lone star addition (and the draftpick and minor tweaks), Knix just a Road playoff team.  Even in the two star model (let's say KD and Kyrie), it probably takes 2 to 3 years to be truly competitive.  Just adding KD means he is guaranteed of wasting 2-4 years towards the end of his career treading water in NY.  What's the point?   A lot of better team/Win Now options available for him. 

So basically Knix need to hit on 2 FA's.  Draw two cards to try to his on a straight flush. 

If anyone can make a case as to why Durant (or another single star) would come to NYK, I'd love to hear it . . .

the only reason any player would come to NY is to collect large amounts of cash and lucrative commercial deals.   winning anything is NOT part of the equation.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 07, 2019, 06:31:49 AM
Nagel, welcome back. That’s a mighty cynical view. It’s correct in the sense that we don’t get discounts or favors, so going for the biggest bangs may leave us short of what’s needed to round out a contending team.

We still have a number of guys under contract. Some few are doing good things. Some have holes to fix before they routinely have positive impacts. Some are on their way to washing out.

This team doesn’t have anything to self correct to. Trips like this are to be expected and help our lottery range.

Im assuming the Knicks keep the band together in terms of Fizz and the Princeton Mafia. It means this summer’s moves and player programs should be more informed than they were for this season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 07, 2019, 08:09:17 AM
That Zach Levine ain't much of a player, eh?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 07, 2019, 11:26:12 AM
Poor defender and erratic, but he can light it up when he gets hot.

Othersowise,  just noticing that Tim Jr. is shooting 30% on 3's for DAL.  Still jacking over 7 a game.  Oddly even his FT shooting has dropped to 73%.  I saw a DAL game the other day where he got burned back door and driven past.  Clanked a few shots.  His highlight when I was watching (2nd half v. Nets) was taking a charge v. DeMarre, a surprising Tim specialty this season.

DET winners of 10 of their last 12.  I saw them beat INDy a few games back, and Ish did a fine job, was much better than RegJax.  When Jax came back in late 4Q, he alternated between bad plays and heroics.  Was sloppy, but he made a couple big plays surrounding his miscues.
Blake's had a Big year, Kennard starting to contribute nicely.  Thon gives them some Big depth.  They're not going far, but good to see them competing and getting some W's.  Their games can still be rather sloppy, their offense can stagnate, but they're clawing out W's for now.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 07, 2019, 11:35:53 AM
You don't need to be in NYC to get endorsements and make commercials.  LA better for that, but anywhere you win or play as a Top 10 player will do.

Durant coming with another star seems unlikely to me.  Durant coming alone seems like complete fantasy.

LAkes the worst FT shooting team at 69%.  LeBJ's drags them down a little with his 66% and many attempts.  Zubac was their best FT shooter before being gifted to the Clips.  (nice easy trade where you don't have to move and go to the same building to play).  So Lakes left with only two players shooting above 75% on FT's.  KCP (86% but less than 2 Ft's per) and Kuz at 76%.  The only other Lake above 70% is Muscala who just arrived.  Seems like a significant roster flaw . . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 07, 2019, 01:13:58 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 06, 2019, 06:57:31 AM


If anyone can make a case as to why Durant (or another single star) would come to NYK, I'd love to hear it . . .

Why did LeBron go to LA?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 07, 2019, 01:16:38 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 06, 2019, 12:10:09 PM
Even two FA stars coming to NYK probably only means a Top 5 East team likely a few years away from genuine contention.

This is another of bo's way out on a limb statements.

KD and Kyrie or KD and Kawhi.... Instant Contention.  You weaken the two EAST juggernauts while improving yourself.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 07, 2019, 01:27:25 PM
Though hell bent on over-achieving, Fiz really had to do little else than give Knox those minutes to assure our draft position. He is a one-man team-tank machine.

https://www.postingandtoasting.com/2019/3/7/18253643/kevin-knox-has-been-historically-bad-heres-the-stats-to-prove-it (https://www.postingandtoasting.com/2019/3/7/18253643/kevin-knox-has-been-historically-bad-heres-the-stats-to-prove-it)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 07, 2019, 02:04:42 PM
Quote from: Kam on March 07, 2019, 01:16:38 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 06, 2019, 12:10:09 PM
Even two FA stars coming to NYK probably only means a Top 5 East team likely a few years away from genuine contention.

This is another of bo's way out on a limb statements.

KD and Kyrie or KD and Kawhi.... Instant Contention.  You weaken the two EAST juggernauts while improving yourself.

He doesn't value our current players - or the coach.

Can't say I blame him too much.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 07, 2019, 04:53:04 PM
Celts might be a better team without Kyrie!
Kawhi not coming here.  But he might go to LAC.
But I take your point that some of the Top East teams might lose a player.  PHI might not re-sign both Butler and Tobias.  MIL has FA's

I don't think you slap together a team and instantly compete.
Look at Westbrook and Paul George.  Y1 was rocky.  Y2 much better. And they have a top C in Steven Adams.  And they're still 3rd or 4th best in the West and need to add more.  So likely Y3 or Y4 til they have a legit shot at the Finals.

Adding two major stars certainly would make the Knix intriguing.
And in the East mix.  But I wouldn't expect a Top 2 East team in Y1 and there would still be much work do to do put together a conference finals or Finals team.  Would really help if one them is Kyrie (though I don't like him much), since it pays to have a strong PG. 

Knix would likely have to let go Vonleh, Mud, DAtheGiant and others to add 2 top-paid stars.  Knox, Jr. Smith, Mitch, Franc, Trier are all 2-3 or more  years away from being legit starters.  Mitch mostly due to foul trouble, but also a somewhat raw offensive game.  I'm reserving judgment on Jr. Smith and Fizz, but I like much of what Fizz did this year and we needed a genuine PG (or to audition another potential starting PG). 

Basically, we'd be adding two major stars (if very lucky) and not really have another legit starter.  Sure we could try to flip Smith for a starting quality wing if Kyrie came.  Not sure if you can get any vet min starters.  So KD - Kyrie - Knox - Trier - Mitch.  Good, interesting but definite weaknesses.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 07, 2019, 07:50:11 PM
Quote from: Nagel on March 06, 2019, 11:46:35 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 06, 2019, 06:57:31 AM
I know Durant to NYK is the rumor, but I don't see KD or any other lone FA choosing to come to the Knix.

Next year will be Durant age 31.  Still in his prime but on the downslope.  Even with a 2-star addition it's real hard to see the Knix competing for the East title next year.  But with Durant as the lone star addition (and the draftpick and minor tweaks), Knix just a Road playoff team.  Even in the two star model (let's say KD and Kyrie), it probably takes 2 to 3 years to be truly competitive.  Just adding KD means he is guaranteed of wasting 2-4 years towards the end of his career treading water in NY.  What's the point?   A lot of better team/Win Now options available for him. 

So basically Knix need to hit on 2 FA's.  Draw two cards to try to his on a straight flush. 

If anyone can make a case as to why Durant (or another single star) would come to NYK, I'd love to hear it . . .

the only reason any player would come to NY is to collect large amounts of cash and lucrative commercial deals.   winning anything is NOT part of the equation.

Who would have gone to GS a few years back?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 07, 2019, 07:51:03 PM
TEN free agents will consider NY.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 07, 2019, 08:04:12 PM
Off of what I have seen, (signed) keepers would be Mitch and Dennis -

and I'd keep Trier if we can somehow swing the $$.  He's a one way microwave but that's the NBA nowadays.

If Kyrie comes I still keep Smith or Mudiay.

By the way, re:  Mitch - got to see 26 minutes of Moritz Wagner last night.  No way should we assume Lakers would take Robinson if they had to do it again. 

Mo will be fine in this league.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 07, 2019, 08:29:37 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 07, 2019, 04:53:04 PM

Look at Westbrook and Paul George.  Y1 was rocky.  Y2 much better.
Adding two major stars certainly would make the Knix intriguing.
And in the East mix;    KD - Kyrie - Knox - Trier - Mitch.  Good, interesting but definite weaknesses.

Maybe PG is truly healthy this year.
I imagine the lineup you posted is capable of finishing 3rd and competing in a 7 game series vs anyone in the East.  In year one.
Especially if Kawhi jumps off the Raps and Milwaukee stumbles recreating this year's MoJo.
You roll the dice with that lineup.

And perhaps a key veteran or two on the minimum. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 07, 2019, 10:17:22 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on March 07, 2019, 01:27:25 PM
Though hell bent on over-achieving, Fiz really had to do little else than give Knox those minutes to assure our draft position. He is a one-man team-tank machine.

https://www.postingandtoasting.com/2019/3/7/18253643/kevin-knox-has-been-historically-bad-heres-the-stats-to-prove-it (https://www.postingandtoasting.com/2019/3/7/18253643/kevin-knox-has-been-historically-bad-heres-the-stats-to-prove-it)

Yeah, I like Knox, but I don't grasp why he's referred to as a developing star. Might be. Hope so (really). But the dude does not come across as a high energy impact player. I mean, in the summer league, he was exciting. But amid the big boys, he's a bit of a snooze.
Title: #8 and #9 Picks of recent vintage
Post by: Kam on March 07, 2019, 10:29:16 PM
2014 Nik Stauskas, Noah Vonleh
2015 Stan Johnson, Frank Kaminsky
2016 Marquese Chriss, Jakob Poetl
2017 Frank Ntilikina, Dennis Smith
2018 Collin Sexton, Kevin Knox



Title: Re: #8 and #9 Picks of recent vintage
Post by: thebizneverloses on March 08, 2019, 02:23:50 AM
Quote from: Kam on March 07, 2019, 10:29:16 PM
2014 Nik Stauskas, Noah Vonleh
2015 Stan Johnson, Frank Kaminsky
2016 Marquese Chriss, Jakob Poetl
2017 Frank Ntilikina, Dennis Smith
2018 Collin Sexton, Kevin Knox

Ha. We might have the best #8 pick in recent years. And while I think Poeltl might be the best #9 pick right now DSJ and Knox still have time to get there. Interesting catch, Kam.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 08, 2019, 05:04:40 PM
Fanboy alert

Heh
Title: Say Whaaaaa...
Post by: carlos123 on March 08, 2019, 08:37:45 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 08, 2019, 05:04:40 PM
Fanboy alert

Heh

(https://media2.giphy.com/media/3vAlDoo4QwTUw0GK3H/source.gif)

(https://media.giphy.com/media/YWJJ4CVyGodEY/giphy.gif)  (https://i.gifer.com/embedded/download/FxpA.gif)

(https://media3.giphy.com/media/CiYImHHBivpAs/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 09, 2019, 05:23:36 AM
I'd take Sexton and StanJohn over Franc.
Interesting how there is almost no difference between 8 & 9 and in fact 9 looks better almost every year.  None of those 10 has broken out yet, though Poetl looks solid and is closest to a legit starter.

For a few years folks were hand-wringing about the weak East and wanted to reformat the playoffs eliminating conferences.  And of course that overreaction has dried up as balance has returned.
Currently there are 7 East team above .500 and 3 losing teams battling for 8th.  But if you look out West there are 8 winning teams playoff bound and 9th place is currently .500. 
And if WASh had played to potential or Dragic had been hamstrung in MIA you'd likely have 8 winning East teams.  Anyway, tradition is good in some cases.  Short-term fixes aren't always good or necessary.  Even in some previous unbalanced years, you know that conference Top 8 = playoffs.  And the other conference standings don't matter to you.  Simple and effective.

Anyone notice the proliferation of ads on and around courtside?  Nearly all courts have the name of the stadium sponsor on the floor rather large, on each end.  The sidelines now frequently have a large company name in front of the benches (Draftkings for the Knix).  State Farm has been on the basket arm for a number of years now in most cities, but now there are often one or two other adverts crammed on the support arm as well.  The latest is under the seats of the bench there are adverts, mostly a big G for Gatorade, but one or two places have KIA.  Shows up between seated players legs.  A few teams have backrest covers on the bench chairs with ads too. 

The top edge of the backboard became common recently for teams to place their website address, as sky cameras became common.  But now perhaps half the team have ads on there.  Think about it, the top edge of the backboard has become its own ad space.  And there seems to be more ads throughout the arena that gets on to TV or into fans brains.  Have to say being bombarded with advertising isn't what I want when paying $50 and up or whatever to see an NBA game.
It's even starting to turn me off to watching on TV.
I'm actually usually excellent at tuning out ads and not noticing them, but the NBA courtside and TV experience is so crammed with ads its distracting and hard to miss.

And of course in the televised feed, every stat and replay seems to have its own sponsor and pays to get its name mentioned.  Unpleasant.    I guess the NBA is a hot commodity and is looking to squeeze out extra revenue while it can.  But it detracts from the experience.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 09, 2019, 02:11:59 PM
Yeah.....Oubre a bit underwhelming for most of the Suns game....

Today - still puzzled by rotations - tough team to watch - but some of the talent makes it bearable.  Knicks hanging with Kings....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on March 09, 2019, 02:44:56 PM
knox looks like a bust at this point.  kid should have stayed in college.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 09, 2019, 03:55:13 PM
Knox has shown promise.
Wasn't he East Rook of the Month in Dec?
Has a lot to learn.
On a good team he'd be playing maybe 15 mins a night off the bench.
He's not ready to start and play 30+ a night and go for 82 games.
So he's taking his lumps.
But it's experience and should pay off down the road.
In 3 years, he'll be just 22.
Patience.

Also who would you take instead?
It was a top-heavy draft and not deep.
The Bridges look allright, though not as NBA ready as advertised.
Shai is intriguing, but we likely weren't drafting a PG with the needs we had.  Porter was too risky while we were so bereft of talent.
Maybe if we drafted Kurucs, KZ woulda stayed ... ha & ha.

Just pretend we drafted Mitch #9 and Knox in the 2nd round and you'll be happier. 

Here's a Q from that draft:
Who is going to have a better career -- Luka or Trae?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 09, 2019, 04:05:54 PM
It was either of Bridges boys, Knox or Porter, realistically.

My idea to deal down had some merit.

Deal up?  Heh - none of you wanted to consider moving KP - who is gone anyway.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 10, 2019, 09:03:57 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 09, 2019, 04:05:54 PM
It was either of Bridges boys, Knox or Porter, realistically.

And we weren't in position to draft a guy who would likely miss the entire year and whose injury/career prospects were uncertain.  So realistically you can scratch Porter too.

Knox or Bridges x 2.
We did fine.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 10, 2019, 09:13:27 AM
Lakes pack in the season.
Ball won't play anymore this year.
Ingram too, has a blood clot on his arm.
Be interesting to see how much LeBJ plays.
Why wear him down and risk injury?
I'd pack him in for the rest of the season.
This will be the first Summer in almost a decade LBJ won't play a full month of playoff hoops.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on March 10, 2019, 11:59:59 AM
Trae's good, maybe a future all-star. Luke looks like a lock to have multiple all-NBA seasons.

Shai is better than Knox or any of the Bridges. MP3, though, would be my pick, then Shai.

Bo, your sustained belief in Stanley Johnson is quite admirable. He looks terrible offensively time I see him. I think Frank has a way higher ceiling.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 10, 2019, 02:11:49 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 10, 2019, 09:03:57 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 09, 2019, 04:05:54 PM
It was either of Bridges boys, Knox or Porter, realistically.

And we weren't in position to draft a guy who would likely miss the entire year and whose injury/career prospects were uncertain.  So realistically you can scratch Porter too.

Knox or Bridges x 2.
We did fine.

Ignoring the trade down and really mistaken re:  Porter.

Heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 10, 2019, 02:33:51 PM
Satoransky 50/44/80 over 23 games, all starts

Double digit assists in 8 of them (7.4 average)

11 wins, positive +/-
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 10, 2019, 06:27:32 PM
Pistons stay hot behind Griffin, Ellington, Kennard and our old friend Langston Galloway
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 10, 2019, 06:55:38 PM
Trade down?  Your annual fantasy/
The #9 pick isn't that sexy.  It wouldn't have made sense to trade down below 15, where the picking were slim, and only then if you knew how far Porter would fall.  Since there wasn't that much of a ratings difference between Bridges and Knox and a crippled Porter, I doubt any asset of value could have been obtained.
Much better to take the player you like best and be satisfied.
Porter slipped for a reason.  Couldn't even manage a workout pre-draft and needed another back surgery.  Huge red flags.  Knix couldn't wade into that uncertainty.

When I saw DET twice recently, Ish was an important stabilizer, as RegJax was erratic.  Blake, Ish and Kennard were coming up big.

As for StanJohn, he's a high-level defender, far ahead of Franc on that end.  He's also dynamite in the open court on breaks.  Has added some driving ability.  Occasionally shoots well.  Fixes his shot some and he's a starter.   Franc?  Can make an occasional drive with a hesitation move.  Long-armed defense but very foul prone.  Long ways to go.  And unfortunately this injury means he isn't getting reps.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 10, 2019, 07:02:06 PM
The crux of the matter is always HOW GOOD WILL THE PLAYER BE?

With Porter there is a pretty good chance still that he pops

Bridges boys already contributing - and the one I preferred is just 20 years old so save the Knox is young schpiel.

Trade down below 15?

Like where?  Wagner's spot?

Heh.
Title: Heh
Post by: carlos123 on March 10, 2019, 07:17:30 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/McAyGt5.gif)

This is somebody's future reincarnation. Who would that be???
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 10, 2019, 07:26:28 PM
That Sacto game was brutal.
Barnes and Bogdanovich were mostly invisible.
It was a disaster every time Giles Goatboy touched the ball.
Fox bailed the Kings out.
They are a young team and Road Wins aren't easy to come by, but that was ugly.

As for the Knix, Knox just couldn't get anything down.
You could sense him thinking what to do.  Sometimes he wasn't sure when to cut or when to drift out to the 3 point line.  He rushed one late 4Q 3-pt shot when he had plenty of time.  Ended up missing the rim.  There were consecutive 3Q possessions where he had Bjelica and then Fox on him and he didn't do anything.  Looked like he passed off covered by Bjelica and afterwards realized he should have driven.  With Fox on him he just stood far out and didn't call for the ball.

Did any Knick have a good game.  Mitch was fine.  Kornet played pretty good D.  I especially liked when Giles thought he'd rip through this skinny white boy and couldn't.  Too bad Luke's shot was off. 

Mud very up and down with some very feeble turnovers.
Trier was aggressive but missed 4 FT's.
Lance was having a solid game until he missed a key corner 3 which would have cut the lead to 2 with 1:40 left.  Wide open, but you don't want to rely on lance in crunch time.  Then he made a dumb foul as well.
Oh, Jenkins canned a trio or trips.  Looked good for a spell late.
Jr. Smith had a strong 1Q, but I find him tough to root for.

Ugly disjointed game.  Lots of possession for both teams went deep into the shot clock.  Credit Fox for figuring out a W.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 10, 2019, 07:38:40 PM
Heh

Beautiful, 'los.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 10, 2019, 07:55:00 PM
There's also a significant chance that Porter never has much of a career.  Two back surgeries before playing an NBA game is unprecedented. 

Mo Wagner looks okay.  Might become a starting C someday.  But there's a C glut.  And the value of C's has fallen in the current switchy/smallball world.  Knix did the smart thing and grabbed a high potential wildcard C in the 2nd round. 

Mikal Bridges is 3 years older than Knox.  Miles has one year on him.  And that extra year of college does help.  So does one more year to grow into your growing body.  But it's not just about age, it's about physical development.  Miles Bridge is mature.  Knox's physical development will take a few more years, btu he has a good frame.

I think we had 3 good players to pick from at a position of need.
It was clear that Mikal was more ready at 22, that Miles would need some time, and Knox was rawer with better size.  I like the way the draft played out, the fact that we had 3 solid choices for a talented SF, and am good with the Knox pick.  I think trading down would've been a big mistake.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 10, 2019, 08:13:37 PM
Trade up coulda been fine. Trade down coulda been fine. Kevin Knox ain't looking very fine. Suspect motor and basketball IQ. Check. No D. Check. (& can't shoot, unlike the rest, that wasn't supposed to be part of the package.)



 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 10, 2019, 08:29:48 PM
Mini without KAT, Little Wiggy and Covington . . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 10, 2019, 09:15:06 PM
Wagner also fits the mold of a stretch 4 - and can guard centers in most lineups.  Can play facing or back to basket.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 10, 2019, 09:21:20 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 10, 2019, 07:55:00 PM
There's also a significant chance that Porter never has much of a career.  Two back surgeries before playing an NBA game is unprecedented. 

Mo Wagner looks okay.  Might become a starting C someday.  But there's a C glut.  And the value of C's has fallen in the current switchy/smallball world.  Knix did the smart thing and grabbed a high potential wildcard C in the 2nd round. 

Mikal Bridges is 3 years older than Knox.  Miles has one year on him.  And that extra year of college does help.  So does one more year to grow into your growing body.  But it's not just about age, it's about physical development.  Miles Bridge is mature.  Knox's physical development will take a few more years, btu he has a good frame.

I think we had 3 good players to pick from at a position of need.
It was clear that Mikal was more ready at 22, that Miles would need some time, and Knox was rawer with better size. I like the way the draft played out, the fact that we had 3 solid choices for a talented SF, and am good with the Knox pick.  I think trading down would've been a big mistake.

well alright - you hold onto that

I am not sure anyone was dealing from the top 7 but KP sure would have been an enticement.  May have affected our $$ but maybe not........  I will remain happy with the picks we got for him.

Teams were certainly dealing from below 15.  Dont know if Denver was and if we would have had a shot at MP in their slot

DiVincenso (Bucks at 17), Williams were the 2 I mentioned at the time.  No idea where they were on Knicks list.  Didnt have to be Celtics dealing for us to have taken R Williams.

We will be fine.  But the question now is whether or not to deal Knox and/or Ntilikina
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 10, 2019, 10:05:58 PM
Porter injury, recovery, etc

https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2018/6/15/17362958/michael-porter-jr-nba-draft-stock-pick-back-injury-surgery (https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2018/6/15/17362958/michael-porter-jr-nba-draft-stock-pick-back-injury-surgery)
Title: Heh
Post by: carlos123 on March 10, 2019, 10:10:35 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 10, 2019, 07:38:40 PM
Heh

Beautiful, 'los.

I knew you'd like it (https://i.imgur.com/wcODazE.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on March 11, 2019, 01:19:20 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 10, 2019, 07:55:00 PM
There's also a significant chance that Porter never has much of a career.  Two back surgeries before playing an NBA game is unprecedented. 

Mo Wagner looks okay.  Might become a starting C someday.  But there's a C glut.  And the value of C's has fallen in the current switchy/smallball world.  Knix did the smart thing and grabbed a high potential wildcard C in the 2nd round. 

Mikal Bridges is 3 years older than Knox.  Miles has one year on him.  And that extra year of college does help.  So does one more year to grow into your growing body.  But it's not just about age, it's about physical development.  Miles Bridge is mature.  Knox's physical development will take a few more years, btu he has a good frame.

I think we had 3 good players to pick from at a position of need.
It was clear that Mikal was more ready at 22, that Miles would need some time, and Knox was rawer with better size.  I like the way the draft played out, the fact that we had 3 solid choices for a talented SF, and am good with the Knox pick.  I think trading down would've been a big mistake.

Again, the right pick was Shai. I also would have liked MPJ. Either instead of the Bridges.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 11, 2019, 02:09:43 AM
Knox will be fine, though DJS & Mudiay made a great argument for Shai today against the Wolves.

We have a little cushion now in our race to the bottom. No harm in winning one now, just to remind the fans what it’s like.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 11, 2019, 04:34:32 AM
I do recall the week or two prior to the draft hearing good buzz for Shai. He's young and a bit raw/inconsistent, but has talent.  Nice future.  Would have been a good pick. 

But we weren't ready to 1) give up on Franc as PG  2) wanted more of a chance to see what Muddy could do (also had Burke)  3) had definite need at SF/F where there were 3 (or 4) quality players.  And if we had drafted Shai and he didn't pan out we'd have 4 iffy pseudo-PG's, and no F's.  Too risky.  Too many gaps to fill.

We did the safe thing in drafting an SF, and still took some risk by taking the pup.

Only saw the first 1/3 of the game.
Looks like Knox did well.  13 & 5 & 4 in 27 mins.
Bounce back game from Dot.
DAtheG looked somewhat lethargic last game.  Wasn't up for a B2B.  You know there's an issue when your 7' has trouble dunking.  He doesn't look in shape.
Mud & Jr Smith sloppy.
Mitch did his thing.  It's nice to see his confidence level, when he was switched on to Teague on the perimeter, he bends those knees, keeps shifting his position slightly ready to move, just looked determined  Instead of trying to exploit the "mismatch", the PG is better off moving the ball so the team can find a player with a weaker defender on him.

MINNy was without their 3 best players.
Bates-Diop looked pretty good in just his 2 start.  Hadn't started before, now B2B games with 35 & 37 mins.  Double digit scoring in both.  Looks like a fine 2nd rounder.  48th pick
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 11, 2019, 04:53:23 AM
So far, Mitch and Kurucs looking good as 2nd round rooks.
Bates-D someone to keep watch on.  Brunson a gamer.
Don't know too many other 2nd rooks yet.

I didn't realize, or forgot, but Knix did a great job of locking Mitch up longterm.
Mitchell Robinson signed 4-yr/$6.5MM contract on July 8, 2018.
New York Knicks $1,485,440 / $1,559,712 / $1,663,861 / $1,802,057
•2020-21 is not guaranteed.
•2021-22 is team option.

Just a 2 year guaranteed deal at a combined $3M.  Basically Knix have a team option on both the 3rd & 4th years at roughly $1.7M each.  Fire that agent, Mitch!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on March 11, 2019, 12:32:22 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 11, 2019, 04:34:32 AM
I do recall the week or two prior to the draft hearing good buzz for Shai. He's young and a bit raw/inconsistent, but has talent.  Nice future.  Would have been a good pick. 

But we weren't ready to 1) give up on Franc as PG  2) wanted more of a chance to see what Muddy could do (also had Burke)  3) had definite need at SF/F where there were 3 (or 4) quality players.  And if we had drafted Shai and he didn't pan out we'd have 4 iffy pseudo-PG's, and no F's.  Too risky.  Too many gaps to fill.

We did the safe thing in drafting an SF, and still took some risk by taking the pup.

An excellent argument for BPA, not drafting for need.

Also, Shai/DSJ/Frank actually works as a three guard rotation. Shai playing off the ball a lot with Sweet Lou and Pat Bev, and looking good doing it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 11, 2019, 01:40:29 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 11, 2019, 04:53:23 AM
So far, Mitch and Kurucs looking good as 2nd round rooks.
Bates-D someone to keep watch on.  Brunson a gamer.
Don't know too may other 2nd rooks yet.

I didn't realize, or forgot, but Knix did a great job of locking Mitch up longterm.
Mitchell Robinson signed 4-yr/$6.5MM contract on July 8, 2018.
New York Knicks $1,485,440 / $1,559,712 / $1,663,861 / $1,802,057
•2020-21 is not guaranteed.
•2021-22 is team option.

Just a 2 year guaranteed deal at a combined $3M.  Basically Knix have a team option on both the 3rd & 4th years at roughly $1.7M each.  Fire that agent, Mitch!
[/b]

Mitch did fire that agent a week after signing that moronic deal. 

https://nypost.com/2018/07/14/mitchell-robinsons-agent-cost-himself-a-job-with-pre-draft-ploy/ (https://nypost.com/2018/07/14/mitchell-robinsons-agent-cost-himself-a-job-with-pre-draft-ploy/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 11, 2019, 01:42:01 PM
Shai has gotten minutes.......

worked out well for him

and has shot it just a tick off his college level (34.5 down from 40 from 3)

High ceiling?  Not sure.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 11, 2019, 01:45:11 PM
If anyone knew that Shai was the best player, he would have been taken before Knox and the Bridges.  He started moving up late.

Officially Shai went 11th, but then was traded for the 12th pick Miles Bridges.  So Shai went to the #12 selecting team and Knox + 2 Bridges went to the 9-11th teams.

Also, I'm not sold that Shai is better than Knox.   His development might be a little faster, but he is a year older.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 11, 2019, 01:46:02 PM
Robinson cost himself more money by not going to school.  Fire the agent, sure.....

He also didnt need to sign for the 3rd. 4th seasons.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 11, 2019, 01:51:51 PM
Shai WAS actually taken before Miles Bridges.  LA dealt for him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 11, 2019, 01:55:29 PM
Teams really try to get a 3rd year option on 2nd rounders these days, and since they have no money or job guaranteed, they have little power to say no.  $3M guaranteed ain't bad, with another possible $1.7M out there.  But that 4th year is very questionable. 

Almost sure teams can't actually have more than one team option in a contract.  But the non-guaranteed 3rd year gets around that.
It was a strange draft strategy for Mitch including skipping the combine when you were already a mystery kid.  4 years with a cheapo salary with only 2 guaranteed was a bad agreement for Mitch to sign.
__________________________________

I noted where Shai went and how.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 11, 2019, 02:32:26 PM
In the NFL the recent recipe for (Non-NewEngland) success is to draft a QB pay him cheap for the first few years and pay everyone else.. hopefully win a SB before you have to pay that QB his second contract.

We have the opportunity to BUILD AROUND MITCH for the next three years with his contract.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 11, 2019, 03:51:31 PM
If Mitch is that good Knicks will extend him before year 4

As is....

Wagner got about 9.9.  Mitch 6.4 with no game history.  Nothing to cry about.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 11, 2019, 07:45:50 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 10, 2019, 07:02:06 PM
The crux of the matter is always HOW GOOD WILL THE PLAYER BE?

NOTHING ELSE MATTERS.





* and that goes double when the plan is to fill up two or three of your starter spots at the grocery store
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 11, 2019, 11:48:46 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 11, 2019, 03:51:31 PM
Wagner got about 9.9.  Mitch 6.4 with no game history.  Nothing to cry about.

50% more.
The guaranteed first 2 years not much different.
But Mo makes almost $4M if the Lakes pick up his 3rd year option, Mitch just $1.8M.  Big difference.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 12, 2019, 01:32:22 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on March 11, 2019, 12:32:22 PM
Also, Shai/DSJ/Frank actually works as a three guard rotation. Shai playing off the ball a lot with Sweet Lou and Pat Bev, and looking good doing it.

A laughable comparison and thoroughly misguided.
Shai is doing all right surrounded by two very savvy vets.  Pa Bev a vicious defender who can pop some 3's.  LouW a professional assassin.
They steady things for young Shai.

Franc and Smith Jr. are still struggling to define themselves, and both mistake and foul prone.  You'd have three G's vying to see who would make the next turnover.  Rarely do teams play an all-yute backcourt, let alone 3 young G's together.

I've seen Shai look pretty good some games and look shaky others.  He needs vet support for now.

We'd be very fortunate if Franc ever became the defender Pa Bev is, or Smith near the scorer Lou is.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 13, 2019, 01:33:04 AM
A competitive loss.  Good stuff.

Knox dropped in 4 of 5 treys.
Worst +/-  though.

Jr SMith with mostly ugly stats, but game high +/-

Just catching fragments of the replay and won't be able to make it through the 2nd half.  But looks like an interesting game, despite zero comments here.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 13, 2019, 09:23:31 AM
No matter how many treys he dropped I'm sure he gave back double on the other side of the court. He is the one-man tank monster. Can't win if he's in.

Tuned in to about a minute and a half of the Timberwolves game.

First play I saw, Knox was inexplicably bringing the ball up court. Teague strips him
and takes it straight down for a layup.

Can't really imagine watching more than a minute and a half these days...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 13, 2019, 09:54:16 AM
Knox did have 4 assists vs Minny?

Court vision along with improvement in percentages are areas of concern.

The latter often comes.  Not sure the former.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 13, 2019, 09:57:42 AM
Mudiay had the best line.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: NeedsAdjustments on March 13, 2019, 10:01:23 AM
The Idiot Flu that infected the Knicks before the Porzingis trade seems to be spreading in New York.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: NeedsAdjustments on March 13, 2019, 10:46:06 AM
Quote from: NeedsAdjustments on March 13, 2019, 10:01:23 AM
The Idiot Flu that infected the Knicks before the Porzingis trade seems to be spreading in New York.

Yankees have scheduled an announcement re: Aaron Judge.

Stay tuned...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 13, 2019, 01:15:56 PM
Knox's D is somewhat concerning.
Bu there's a lot on his plate, he plays big minutes, and is trying to figure things out on O.  Also the mix-and-match lineups aren't conducive to good defense.  So I cut him some slack.  He makes some good defensive plays now and then.  Still growing into his body. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 13, 2019, 01:33:14 PM
Odd Lakes-Bulls match.
Bulls were up 18 after 1Q, with Lakes looking disorganized and sluggish.

But after scoring 16 in the 1Q, LA went off for 82 in the middle two quarters.  They had 22 fast break points ... in the 3Q.  Some of the ish they were doing looked like all-star game action: Kuz tossed a lob from the backcourt that LeBJ caught off the bounce in stride and reverse-jammed.  Later Hart tossed LBJ an off the backboard pass for a killer slam on a 3-on-none break.  Bulls were awful in transition while LeBJ and Rondo killed them with long outlet passes.

Some pretty impressive work for 34 year old LeBron.  He scored 14 in the 2Q to get LLA back in it, and he was posting fools, driving, hitting 3's.  Just bullied the Lakes back into the game.

Oddly Fropez was the Bulls main offense for much of the game.  Posting, driving, hooks -- finished with 20 on 9-14 FG.  Was aggressive.  Then Dunn took over.  Pretty decent game from Dunn. 
Bit of a rough game from Markkanen, but he scrapped.

Bulls looked great 1Q, then awful 2nd & 3rd, and competent in the 4Q.
Lotta whozats -- Wayne  Selden, Brandon Sampson, Arcidiacono (32 mins and the start); Caruso, Johnathon Williams, Andre Ingram (GLeauge legend).  At one point LeBJ was out there with 3 guys I barely heard of and Big Moe Wag.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 13, 2019, 03:00:41 PM
When you’re a lotto team what else is there to do but hold auditions?

Quote from: bodiddley on March 13, 2019, 01:15:56 PM
Knox's D is somewhat concerning.
Bu there's a lot on his plate, he plays big minutes, and is trying to figure things out on O.  Also the mix-and-match lineups aren't conducive to good defense.  So I cut him some slack.  He makes some good defensive plays now and then.  Still growing into his body. 

I completely agree with this. It would be nice if he showed more good and less bad on D in the remaining games this season. I want to see him trying the right things, like seeing man & ball, even if he doesn’t have the strength, balance, and stamina to make it work consistently yet.

DJS and Mudiay are not doing it for me. I’m assuming Mudiay lands somewhere else. Can the Knicks and DJS execute an offseason that transforms him into a high functioning point guard? I’m not sure I see it.

Our bigs are looking nice though and there are some good moments from Dotson and Trier.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 13, 2019, 04:20:20 PM
Time to think of Dotson as the former lottery pick and Frank as the second rounder.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 13, 2019, 09:13:25 PM
heh.....
Title: Chico's favorite Hehs
Post by: carlos123 on March 13, 2019, 11:06:57 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 13, 2019, 09:13:25 PM
heh.....

(http://i.imgur.com/7Ix5jUz.gif) (https://thumbs.gfycat.com/IndolentMediocreJumpingbean-size_restricted.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 14, 2019, 11:57:45 AM
Harden has shot poorly recently.
38% FG and 25% on 3's.
But dishing out lots of assists and getting to the line a ton.  And HOU has been winning ugly games.

The storyline oddly was all about Cousin Boogie.  Who had a good statline but an up and down game.  Got stripped a few times, fouled on both ends, scored some.  I thought the bigger deal was GS rebounding.  Where they killed HOU and got lots of 2nd chance ops.
Also, Klay had a big game and GS is generally better when he busts out.

DET averaging 74.5 pts the last two games.
This after a 12 of 14 winning streak.
They play a rather ugly brand of ball, which is very dependent on Blake.  RegJax and Bulldog Drummond are still erratic.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 14, 2019, 12:09:22 PM
John Collins just a hair below 20 & 10.
Quite a nice sophomore campaign.

If BOS finishes 4th, they could get a Home matchup with IND, and then the Bucks in the 2nd round.  Sounds like a perfect road to the conference finals for them.  Avoid TOR & PHI.  Not bad for a shaky season. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 14, 2019, 01:25:21 PM
You would rather face Milwaukee than Philadelphia?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 14, 2019, 01:58:59 PM
For BOS, yes.
Horford has done well against Embiid.
And BOS shut down Simmons last year.
But Tobias and Butler make PHI dangerous.
Good defense.

Also, my working theory is that MIL is vulnerable in a playoff series vs a well-coached team . . .
I'm a big Brogdon and Middleton fan.
But the team, and those two, don't have the playoff experience.
Their bench is suspect.  And it will be key how Bledsoe does.  Having a breakout season (finally), but the playoffs are another story.
I have them pegged as regular season juggernaut with clay feet.
Hope I get to see them before the playoffs, as I haven't seen a Bucks games in months now.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 14, 2019, 02:48:59 PM
Budenholzer is a bad-ass coach who we should have gone after with guns blazing and wallet wide open instead of this asshat Fizdale.

The Bucks have been doing it all year long, consistently and effortlessly — their point differential is nearly double anybody else's — and unlike the Atlanta teams, have the playoff-necessary first tier star. Maybe they need to get smacked once before moving on, but I wouldn't assume they are an easier matchup for anyone. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 14, 2019, 03:36:32 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on March 14, 2019, 02:48:59 PM
Budenholzer is a bad-ass coach who we should have gone after with guns blazing and wallet wide open instead of this asshat Fizdale.


Coaches don't play.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 14, 2019, 03:40:46 PM
yes, and?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 14, 2019, 03:42:32 PM
Don't you think the W-L record and conference placement of the respective teams has more to do with roster makeup?

Remember... those Milwaukee cats wanted to by the Knicks and Dolan said no sale.  So they bought the Bucks and take Knick scraps.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 14, 2019, 03:47:38 PM
I think coaching can make a tremendous difference, and that Budenholzer has made a tremendous difference.



**disclaimer..am very biased, am a coach  ;)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 14, 2019, 04:09:51 PM
Milwaukee's bench being bad is a weak take.
Title: Bucks
Post by: carlos123 on March 14, 2019, 09:27:04 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 14, 2019, 04:09:51 PM
Milwaukee's bench being bad is a weak take.

Why?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 14, 2019, 10:05:14 PM
G Hill, P Gasol, Mirotic, Connaughton, Ilyasova and Snell.

Maker and Wilson in tow

Donte waiting it out.
Title: Bucks
Post by: carlos123 on March 14, 2019, 10:37:44 PM
Ok, I’m convinced.
BoZ, what do you have to say to dat?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on March 14, 2019, 11:14:42 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 14, 2019, 10:05:14 PM
G Hill, P Gasol, Mirotic, Connaughton, Ilyasova and Snell.

Maker and Wilson in tow

Donte waiting it out.
Maker?
Title: Lakers
Post by: Kam on March 14, 2019, 11:15:39 PM
What if Lakers win the Zion lottery?  New Orleans would make the AD trade.  LeBron will win another Chip.  Jordan still won't care.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 14, 2019, 11:20:21 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on March 14, 2019, 11:14:42 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 14, 2019, 10:05:14 PM
G Hill, P Gasol, Mirotic, Connaughton, Ilyasova and Snell.

Maker and Wilson in tow

Donte waiting it out.
Maker?

yeah......he's gone

inconsequential - though they could use a shotblocker
Title: Re: Bucks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 14, 2019, 11:23:12 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on March 14, 2019, 10:37:44 PM
Ok, I’m convinced.
BoZ, what do you have to say to dat?

Not athletic enough (4 white guys)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 14, 2019, 11:26:57 PM
https://poststar.com/sports/fredette-helps-shanghai-into-playoffs-leads-league-in-scoring/article_827206a6-ae27-53f7-a61a-62d42e692c4f.html (https://poststar.com/sports/fredette-helps-shanghai-into-playoffs-leads-league-in-scoring/article_827206a6-ae27-53f7-a61a-62d42e692c4f.html)
Title: Re: Bucks
Post by: carlos123 on March 15, 2019, 01:21:41 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 14, 2019, 11:23:12 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on March 14, 2019, 10:37:44 PM
Ok, I’m convinced.
BoZ, what do you have to say to dat?

Not athletic enough (4 white guys)

Nah, I think you’re the only one who thinks of b-ball in terms of race.

I mean, you were doing so well, and then ... just can’t help yourself.
Title: Re: Bucks
Post by: Kam on March 15, 2019, 01:45:40 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 14, 2019, 11:23:12 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on March 14, 2019, 10:37:44 PM
Ok, I’m convinced.
BoZ, what do you have to say to dat?

Not athletic enough (4 white guys)

The Duke Bench?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 15, 2019, 01:49:23 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 14, 2019, 10:05:14 PM
G Hill, P Gasol, Mirotic, Connaughton, Ilyasova and Snell.
Maker and Wilson in tow
Donte waiting it out.

I like DJ's development and Connaugthon is a scrapper.  But neither ready for the playoffs.  And Pa Gasol is smart but a fossil.  GrandPau Gasol.  So basically they aren't going to help.

Geo Hill is decent but past his prime.  Shows up every 3rd game.  Could get hot at the right time, but also his body could continue breaking down at the wrong time.  Kiid thought Hill was going to be a gamechanger for MIL, and he's been helpful but not much more.  I should look it up, but think he's around 15 or 16 mins per.

Mirrortrick, Ilya and Snell all are erratic.  Any of them could have a good or very poor game any given night.  But all have tendencies to go quiet.  Streaky/erratic players.  Snell has been more consistent this year, but I still wouldn't trust him with a big shot in playoff crunch time, which likely will occur.  When I've seen MIL, Snell has mostly made plays.  So he might just be better now than I give him credit for, but he used to be pretty iffy. 

My main argument is that you can gameplan MIL.  Either double and take away Giannis to the rim and let others try to beat you.  Or stay tight on the shooters and let Giannis try to win it himself.  Depending on your personnel and preference.

Secondly, the supporting cast -- Bled, The Frog and Middleguy -- all have a lot to prove come playoff  time.  (Again, Brogdon is probably my favorite NBA player right now, and I've been a Middletony fan for years as well).  but playoffs is trial by fire.  Experience really helps.  can Frog stay poised and efficient and not make turnovers.

3rd is the bench issue.

I agree that Buttholer is a terrific coach, just too bad about that nickname.  Okay, we'll go with Buttonholer because he is a savant.  Can he outcoach for 3 series, so a team with limited experience can go far?  I have MIL as regular season champs.  Which means little except home court once the 2nd season commences.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 15, 2019, 01:59:10 AM
The past week, when I've glimpsed SH Sharks games on TV, they had blowouts going and Jimmer was hot.  But I only watched a few minutes each time.  Seemed like they had 2 or 3 blowout wins to close the season strong.  but I'd have to check to be sure.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 15, 2019, 08:38:29 AM
Must be a weird playoff system

Article says Sharks earned final slot but then said their opponent is the 5 seed.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 15, 2019, 08:59:21 AM
Connaughton has playoff experience

I dismissed Wilson as a Who He earlier

Only thing I linked George Hill to was Phil Jackson, who liked GH before he was canned and we went with Sessions.

I have Milwaukee over Boston and Boston as a toss up with Philly.  (Bucks 2-1 vs Celts I think.  Philly 0-3)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 15, 2019, 09:04:00 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 15, 2019, 08:38:29 AM
Must be a weird playoff system

Article says Sharks earned final slot but then said their opponent is the 5 seed.

Maybe top 4 get bye and 12 teams in.....

5 v 12.  Winner plays 4
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 15, 2019, 09:19:57 AM
CBA bracket

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_CBA_Playoffs

Jimmer looking for a couple of upset rounds to get to Final 4.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 15, 2019, 10:57:13 PM
The Sharks were a little below .500 most of the year until a strong finish put them slightly over.  Not going to be easy to get far.  Especially since the Top few teams win a lot.  The top team finished something like 44-4.  Yi Jian Lian's team.  He's still the best Chinese player.  probably the only Chinese player to score over 20 pts/game.

Brog, Connaught and Grandpa Gasol are usually poised fellows.  But I think that whole team has a lot to prove in the playoffs.    Beat up a 1st round opponent should help confidence.  But there's often a sea change between round 1 & 2.  It's matchups that matter.  We'll see.
TOR is my East pick.
But the East playoffs should be a lot of fun.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 16, 2019, 01:55:00 AM
Nobody watched the game?

Nearly a trip-dub for DeGiant.
Was doing a nice job with backdoor passes.

Big game for Kadeem.
I looked him up and turns out he's the NBA's all-time leading scorer.
I didn't know that . . .

and Clyde calls pest control on bees?
That's not cool.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 16, 2019, 03:37:59 AM
Out West, GSW has a mighty fine Road record (22-11)
After that only 3 teams have a winning road record, and three of them just barely.  If HOU and LAC had lost one of their Home wins, they'd be .500.  And one OKC road win was lost they'd be below water.  DEN and POR .500 on away games.

Basically the same story in the East, with MIL and TOR with strong Road records and only IND (17-16) above .500.
Tough to get W's on the Road these days.

Knix one of 3 teams with a better Road than Home record.
Along with CHI and strangely #8 seed MIA (a solid 16-16 on the Road, but just 16-20 at Home)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 16, 2019, 07:41:03 AM
We.are.just.so.bad.

I know they're young. I know there's not a ton of talent there. But at this point, I can't glimpse anything the coach is accomplishing.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 16, 2019, 08:59:15 AM
Losing.

Well, I think this year is about individual development.
And a lot of guys have shown promise.  Limitations as well.
But that's part of the evaluation process.

Right now, Datsun looking like a genuine rotation player, even possible future starter.  Mitch too, despite the mini-slump.

I think it's time to cut back Knox's minutes.
Have him off the bench, and go against 2nd units.  Or if you want him with reps paired with Jr Smith, start Knox and just play him the first half.   Too many crappy games can sap confidence.

Kind of ironic to see DeAndre the Giant do the role Noah was brought in for.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 16, 2019, 12:23:04 PM
Indiana 17-16


nice
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 16, 2019, 03:58:25 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 16, 2019, 08:59:15 AM

I think it's time to cut back Knox's minutes.
Have him off the bench, and go against 2nd units.  Or if you want him with reps paired with Jr Smith, start Knox and just play him the first half.   Too many crappy games can sap confidence.


Getting Mario back to break up the work load will help. SF is the only spot we’re actually numerically thin, especially with Dot doing best at SG.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on March 16, 2019, 08:52:28 PM
https://www.perell.com/blog/naked-brands-basketball (https://www.perell.com/blog/naked-brands-basketball)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on March 16, 2019, 09:34:25 PM
"He is and always will be the reason they don't get free agents," a longtime NBA executive told Sports Illustrated's Chris Mannix. "

re  James Dolan.

PS

is he going anywhere?

sorry boys but the answer is No and No.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 17, 2019, 03:16:27 AM
Did you see the fan encounter after a recent game.  Fan in stands yells SELL THE TEAM!  Dolan, below and going into the tunnel and with bodyguards around him, confronts the fan.

JD: "Oh so you think I should sell the team?  How'd you like not to come to games any more?
Fan: That's my opinion.
JD: That's not an opinion ... And that's rude.
(I guess the fan needed to say I think you should sell the team, so Dolan could recognize n opinion easier)
Fan: ...
JD: Maybe you can watch the games on TV from now on.
And he motions security to detain the fan.

I guess the fan was a bit surprised to be taking to Dolan.  But a very lame interaction.  I would have pointed out that the Knix have been a terrible team for much of the two decades Dolan has owned the team.  that there is a revolving door of players, coaches, management, and the only constant was the poor ownership.  Politely mention that the team has the worst record and just traded their best player for cap space.  That IMO the Knick would be better off as a team with a  better owner and more stable and competent management.

Then if Dolan was a jerk or unpleasant or told security to grab me, that's when I'd ask him how Phil Jackson was doing.  And Oakley.  And when he was going to bring Isiah back to fix things. 

IF any of you go to a Knick game, you should coach your section during halftime and arrange for a 3Q SELL THE TEAM chant.  If one section gets started, I imagine it could spread to the entire stadium.  Especially when the Knix are down double digits and playing poorly.  Thin-skinned Dolan would hate that.  Cameras would pan on to him to see his reaction.  And it would make all the sports news.   CHip?  Miras? Whoever the hell actually attends these games anymore ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 17, 2019, 03:44:44 AM
Milwaukee Bucks guard Malcolm Brogdon is expected to miss six to eight weeks with a minor plantar fascia tear in his right foot, league sources told ESPN.

There is optimism that he could return closer to the six-week mark, sources said.

Based on that timeline, the Bucks could potentially be without Brogdon deep into the playoffs. With the first round set to begin in less than a month, he certainly won't be playing in that series. The tentative start date for the second round, meanwhile, is April 29 or 30, which is right at the beginning of the reported timeline.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 17, 2019, 04:35:32 AM
Sterling Brown, who I’d want as next man up has a lingering wrist issue. More George Hill now, I guess.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on March 17, 2019, 04:45:32 AM
Quote from: elephant on March 16, 2019, 07:41:03 AM
We.are.just.so.bad.

I know they're young. I know there's not a ton of talent there. But at this point, I can't glimpse anything the coach is accomplishing.

This hasn't been an inspiring season from Fizdale. Dealt a very poor hand, sure, but the rotations have been too wacky and inconsistent for my tastes, meaning nobody developed a sense of their role. Without that, it's hard to implement a proper identity. He gets some credit for building confidence in Mudiay, DSJ, and in particular Mitch and Vonleh. But I'm not sure Ntilikina and Knox have developed as much as they could have in a more structured environment.

Let's see how he does next year. He won't have the same excuses (he'll have different ones, mind you). I'm not saying all hope is lost, but I'm really hoping to see a lot more from Fiz next year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 17, 2019, 07:18:03 AM
I understand that mix and match lineups and everybody gets to start  for extended stretches (and not just in their hometowns a la Larry Brown) is unconventional and generally frowned upon.  But I've liked it -- think it's been useful, interesting and fun.

The only ones who didn't play much were Courtly & Lance, and other than trying to raise their trade value, there was no reason to play such decent vets much.    Noah another vet who was unwanted, though that largely predated Fiz and was apparently for different reasons.

Franc's main problem has been poor play.  And some minor dings.  And of course we've had Mud/Burke and now Jr. Smith/Mud and Franc hasn't beaten anybody out.  While the SG slot has had a lot of guys competing hard.

Knox has been given a ton of minutes and ops and has been up and down like most rooks.  KK had a terrific Dec. and a stretch where he was really good in 1Q's.  Hopefully all this experience pays off down the road.

Dot, Mitch, Vonleh, Trier have all done well.
Zonja hasn't.  Kornet has been interesting.  Started as a sharpshooter, but has morphed into a pretty good interior defender.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 17, 2019, 09:48:37 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 17, 2019, 04:35:32 AM
Sterling Brown, who I’d want as next man up has a lingering wrist issue. More George Hill now, I guess.

Ilyasova, Snell, Connaughton
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on March 17, 2019, 11:25:38 AM
Ntilikina clearly isn't viewed as a point guard. I don't think the expectation has ever been that he'd beat out those guys for time at the 1. He's competing for wing minutes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 17, 2019, 12:07:42 PM
I also expect Hill will be called on to play more, if he's up to the extra minutes.

If Franc can't be at least a backup PG, then he's fairly useless and likely not long for this league.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on March 17, 2019, 12:54:17 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 17, 2019, 07:18:03 AM
I understand that mix and match lineups and everybody gets to start  for extended stretches (and not just in their hometowns a la Larry Brown) is unconventional and generally frowned upon.  But I've liked it -- think it's been useful, interesting and fun.

The only ones who didn't play much were Courtly & Lance, and other than trying to raise their trade value, there was no reason to play such decent vets much.    Noah another vet who was unwanted, though that largely predated Fiz and was apparently for different reasons.

Franc's main problem has been poor play.  And some minor dings.  And of course we've had Mud/Burke and now Jr. Smith/Mud and Franc hasn't beaten anybody out.  While the SG slot has had a lot of guys competing hard.

Knox has been given a ton of minutes and ops and has been up and down like most rooks.  KK had a terrific Dec. and a stretch where he was really good in 1Q's.  Hopefully all this experience pays off down the road.

Dot, Mitch, Vonleh, Trier have all done well.
Zonja hasn't.  Kornet has been interesting.  Started as a sharpshooter, but has morphed into a pretty good interior defender.

Generally speaking, mix and match lineups make a lot of sense when the coach has a philosophy of playing hot-hand lineups.  That can be very much fun as players truly compete and complement each other's play.

My favorite instance of this happened when the Yankees after a decade of drudgery were putting together Munson, Lyle, Rivers and that gang of players who in their formative years really showed the spark of something special. 

I find the Knicks games unwatchable because I see no such sparks. Every game provides a statistical standout or two but the inevitable, conscripted losing is unbearable.  The NBA is responsible for this shitshow across the league.  And the normalization of disingenuous "we really are trying to win" rhetoric is simply teaching kids that adults are all full of sh@t.

If there every was a year to introduce a system and stick to it hell or high water, this was it.  I don't care if we sign five FAs all of whom are great - I don't see a systematic foundation for playing any kind of even "let's pretend"  the right way.

We have drifted a long way from Kansas without heart, a brain, or a lucky charm.

I also disagree on Franc.  His play is predictably immature for good reason - he's a freakin' kid. Same deal with most of our roster.  No amount of diet or conditioning is going to change that.  That said, Fizdale has done nothing to mold these guys in a way that they could contribute within their means.  And regardless of age, these kids should be working on conditioning day and night - no excuses.

Zonja is the canary in the coal mine.  He is an absolutely obvious bust.  If he sticks around longer than having the time to clean out his locker then we need to start asking for Fizdale's replacement. The ship be stinking.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 17, 2019, 02:41:17 PM
Hezonja!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 17, 2019, 03:19:57 PM
Sucks when Mudiay has to play so many minutes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on March 17, 2019, 06:29:48 PM
Just awaiting that #5 pick to arrive in a weak draft.

Spencer Pearlman's recent assessment of the draft is...I dunno...just a tad bit depressing given how bad we are this year, unless you are the king of homers.

Yes, it may work out just fine, but rather ironic that one of the worst seasons in our history is also one of the most PowerBall like drafts in memory (Zion or bust!), as I can recall. We won it with Ewing, but I was barely a fan then so means little to me and those born later than most here.

The tinge of hope in free agency is highly prevalent, but is really one of those things where you do wonder if fans' hopes are once again too high, too low, or too "balanced" in contrarianism as seems to be the dynamic of Knick fans based on my experience.

Anyway...we'll all "live," Dolan will still own the team, and the Nets will still have fewer fans for now.

We shall over...something
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on March 17, 2019, 06:35:46 PM
https://www.thestepien.com/2019/03/16/mike-gribanovs-pre-ncaa-tournament-2019-big-board/

Maybe he's off as there's always a "chance," sure, but basically, his view is if you don't get Zion, the next 3 picks he would trade down from. Is that normal?? This seems really quite bad for teams that don't win the lottery, or is highly risky for all teams as bad, or about as close to where we are.

If we had a "typical Knicks" season of being in the 6-9 pick range, this of ALL years, based on evidence - and he is basing it on evidence not "feelings" - would be more ideal as we'd get better value.

The risk-reward is better with Zion the prize, but some "big" prospects are not really showing enough to warrant top 5. That's the real f**k you to us. We always whined that top 5 was needed to get top talent, but one of the few seasons we are in that range, is one of the seasons where we don't see that kind of talent available after #1.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 17, 2019, 06:59:04 PM
He's a fucking loon.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on March 17, 2019, 07:38:56 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 17, 2019, 06:59:04 PM
He's a fucking loon.

Why would you say that?

As far as I understand he's using data to support his findings over the course of this season in college hoops.

He makes these points on the latest KnicksFilmSchool Podcast.

I'll be real. I think we have reason to worry, and good reason to suspect we could trade our pick, or it will turn into a decent NBA player, but not what some might expect from a top 5 pick...unrealistically or not.
Title: Re: Loons
Post by: carlos123 on March 17, 2019, 08:58:18 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on March 17, 2019, 07:38:56 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 17, 2019, 06:59:04 PM
He's a fucking loon.

Why would you say that?


He means this kind of loon...

(https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/0e3977a5945c55071de579f2ac323738951a626b/c=134-0-2265-1598/local/-/media/2015/09/03/Tallahassee/B9318695375Z.1_20150903131320_000_G25BQ7T86.1-0.jpg?width=534&height=401&fit=crop)
Title: More loons
Post by: carlos123 on March 17, 2019, 09:06:47 PM
Or this kind?

(https://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/5c8e7cd42300007f006bf96e.jpeg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 17, 2019, 10:20:56 PM
The list, for one, is ridiculous. 

Second - I take Barrett in a heartbeat at 2.

(Admit I havent yet seen Culver)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 18, 2019, 02:15:26 AM
The most useless ranking I've ever seen.
After his Top 4, he says:
Quote
all 13 of these guys are really interchangeable to me. The players separated by only slashes are seriously tied and I can put them in a different order based on seeing a single good or bad possession. That’s how close it is.

Why bother with any rankings if you're just going to punt and say Well everybody's roughly equal.  Geez.  And zero analysis of what anyone's strengths or weaknesses are.  What did he have, a 2 minute deadline, and he quickly whipped that out?  Embarrassing.  Almost the definition of a useless internet article.  And you're going to panic based on that?  Jeez x 2.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 18, 2019, 07:30:23 AM
Quote from: FWK00 on March 17, 2019, 12:54:17 PM
If there every was a year to introduce a system and stick to it hell or high water, this was it.  I don't care if we sign five FAs all of whom are great - I don't see a systematic foundation for playing any kind of even "let's pretend"  the right way.

Completely disagree.  This was a year for individual development.  And team losing.  We didn't need a system because we have few legit starters and plenty of players who won't be back.

Once we get some legit starters we can worry about implementing a style of play.  Next year.  This year was getting players up to NBA level and gaining experience.

As for Franc, I'm not that down on him.  I'm still counting on him developing as a PG.  But if he's not at least a backup PG, then his role/usefulness will be rather limited. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 18, 2019, 12:05:50 PM
Looks like most of you didn't get a chance to see the early game against the Lakers Sunday. Big first quarter. But it wasn't especially beautiful after that. Lot of  faltering. The same shit we've seen all year.

But those last few minutes. Wow. How many times this year have you seen the Knicks come back in the last few minutes of a game and win?

And win on a final play? With a defensive stop? Against fucking Lebron?!

For all the pain, the rare burst of pleasure comes welcome.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 18, 2019, 12:55:25 PM
Making both free throws to take the lead in last minute is almost unprecedented with this group.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 18, 2019, 01:04:39 PM
Absolutely! It's funny how that shit translates as high drama for me.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 18, 2019, 01:05:30 PM
A pretty dumb foul from KCP.
Certainly more pressure when you need to make both to tie.
And there was still a fair amount of time left.
But yeah, gotta knock down your FT's.
DeAndretheGiant also put in a pair around the 2 min mark getting fouled going for a stuff off a good Mud dropoff pass.

Zonja actually guarded LeBJ well from what I saw.  With 4 mins left LBJ drove and Zonja stuck with him and then reached in and tied him up.  Around the 2 min mark LBj brought the ball upcourt and Zonja applied full court pressure, taking a few swipes at the dribble just past midcourt.  Then the crucial block.  LeBJ didn't seem to have great legs in the game.

Unfortunately my internet connection was erratic, so I saw maybe half the game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 18, 2019, 01:15:15 PM
Buck release Christian Wood to make room for Tim Frazier. We should grab CW from waivers so we have him for next year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 18, 2019, 01:48:05 PM
I like Frazier ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 18, 2019, 02:23:10 PM
I guess they will take a look at some minutes of Frazier-Bledsoe - looking for options with Malcolm out.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 18, 2019, 02:36:04 PM
Frazier is probably just insurance in case Hill gets injured or ineffective.

I read recently that Jarrett Jack is playing the GLeague.
He'd be a solid vet pickup as 3rd PG for someone.
Edit: Just looked him up and he just tore his ACL two days ago.
Well, that's likely career over heading into 36 years old.  Shame.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 18, 2019, 03:32:05 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on March 16, 2019, 08:52:28 PM
https://www.perell.com/blog/naked-brands-basketball (https://www.perell.com/blog/naked-brands-basketball)

Thanks for sharing the post!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 18, 2019, 05:32:47 PM
Quote from: elephant on March 18, 2019, 12:05:50 PM

And win on a final play? With a defensive stop? Against fucking Lebron?!

For all the pain, the rare burst of pleasure comes welcome.

I'm about to type something i never thought i would:

Super Mario for the win!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on March 18, 2019, 05:39:56 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 18, 2019, 07:30:23 AM
Quote from: FWK00 on March 17, 2019, 12:54:17 PM
If there every was a year to introduce a system and stick to it hell or high water, this was it.  I don't care if we sign five FAs all of whom are great - I don't see a systematic foundation for playing any kind of even "let's pretend"  the right way.

Completely disagree.  This was a year for individual development.  And team losing.  We didn't need a system because we have few legit starters and plenty of players who won't be back.

Once we get some legit starters we can worry about implementing a style of play.  Next year.  This year was getting players up to NBA level and gaining experience.

As for Franc, I'm not that down on him.  I'm still counting on him developing as a PG.  But if he's not at least a backup PG, then his role/usefulness will be rather limited.

IMO, implementing some system basics is good for players as well as staff, IMO. Yes, the point would have been losing but the mindfulness of it would have been worthwhile.

I didn't see much individual development per se.  Some players got minutes and made the best of them but I'm not chalking that up to development.  Franc I thought lost more than gained.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on March 18, 2019, 06:36:09 PM
https://medium.com/@getxpire/how-we-used-ai-to-make-nba-players-dance-2fdbe6c63a97 (https://medium.com/@getxpire/how-we-used-ai-to-make-nba-players-dance-2fdbe6c63a97)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 18, 2019, 07:56:46 PM
No Kawhi......
Title: No Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on March 18, 2019, 10:27:54 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 18, 2019, 07:56:46 PM
No Kawhi......

No that they needed him 🤬
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on March 18, 2019, 11:46:46 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 18, 2019, 02:15:26 AM
The most useless ranking I've ever seen.
After his Top 4, he says:
Quote
all 13 of these guys are really interchangeable to me. The players separated by only slashes are seriously tied and I can put them in a different order based on seeing a single good or bad possession. That’s how close it is.

Why bother with any rankings if you're just going to punt and say Well everybody's roughly equal.  Geez.  And zero analysis of what anyone's strengths or weaknesses are.  What did he have, a 2 minute deadline, and he quickly whipped that out?  Embarrassing.  Almost the definition of a useless internet article.  And you're going to panic based on that?  Jeez x 2.

So glad to know your snide side has dissipated over the years. ::)

Did I steal your lunch money or something? Sheesh.

Maybe I'm off, but I've felt you've had the same swift, dismissive reaction (or have ignored my responses) at times to of a number of things I've posted (including the podcasts from an intelligent defense of the KP trade in a podcast which I tried to quote), making very strong and rude statements from what seems clear to me without doing much investigation.

You basically have no idea what you are talking about, yet somehow you felt comfortable saying " Embarrassing.  Almost the definition of a useless internet article."

The article was not intended to break down every player. They've already done that. It's also not "his" rankings. It's what they have come to conclusions as a group based on data.

You are making yourself look foolish.

Here's the article you expected breaking down their views of players (from midseason) and their latest rankings...satisfied?

https://www.thestepien.com/2019/01/25/spencer-pearlmans-midseason-big-board/

https://www.thestepien.com/2019-draft-rankings/

That article is making the point of where things are according to their findings. There is not a whole lot to get excited about if you don't get the #1 pick. Capiche? It's showing how weak the draft is in tiers that might more typically have more highly rated talent and on top of this it's hard to differentiate in that range. It's so bad, according to their findings, that getting pick 2-4 is not worth drafting at that slot and better to trade down, but not THAT far down as you can see their findings indicate 8-10 are also worth trading down. How all that makes the article worthless I really fail to understand for someone I consider as educated as yourself.

oh...yeah...there's this to help understand some of what they use to come to conclusions (on Pearlman's last appearance on KFS he said that we now have a good amount of data for players on the top NCAA teams who play against top competition regularly enough, i.e. Barrett):

https://www.thestepien.com/player-distribution-tool/

https://www.thestepien.com/shot-chart/

So, using, you know...DATA. That not acceptable?

Really striking that you came to such a harsh conclusion so fast. Strange and sad really.

I've been listening to the Spencer Pearlman, who's been commenting all season on the Knicks Film School pod about concerns regarding this draft, including Barrett whose numbers/ratings do not show him to be something to get too excited about:

https://knicksfilmschool.com/2019/03/16/knicks-film-school-podcast-pre-tourney-prospect-review-knicks-draft-board-with-spencer-pearlman/

He was also picked up locally to discuss the draft last month:

https://wfan.radio.com/media/audio-channel/spencer-pearlman-2019-nba-draft

Did you bother to explore the site? Of course not because your response would have read different. It's like you take one piece of info and if it doesn't immediately satisfy what you were looking for, even if that's not the point...it's crap.

Am I wrong? Is that too much work? Just like you didn't listen to the pod I directed you to defending the KP trade, or probably won't listen to the pods I post here, because you act like you know more and it's really fucking obnoxious and why posting on here can be wack and not even interesting. It's a pissing contest for grumpy old men.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 18, 2019, 11:49:19 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 18, 2019, 07:30:23 AM
This was a year for individual development.  And team losing.  We didn't need a system because we have few legit starters and plenty of players who won't be back.



Nobody "develops" playing in trash soup. The teams that have built and progressed implemented winning ways even though they lost plenty at first and players shuffled in-and-out. Fizdale talks complete crap. His big trick is to throw a g-leaguer into the starting lineup or the last minute of a close game to "show confidence." Long run, however, you just have a bunch of guys running around who can't play.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 19, 2019, 12:12:33 AM
I read the link you gave and it was worthless.  I explained why.
Really I thought that article was draft trolling -- intentional fear-mongering -- and you took the bait.
I had/have no comment on the entire site it came from. 

The new stepien link at least has some beginning of analysis and all the slots filled in.  Let me know when they move beyond 3 or 4 word evaluations and maybe graduate to full sentences.

I'm not going to start listening to podcasts to know what you think/agree with.  You can simply summarize or give your views along with such links.  Next thing I'm going to have to listen to Talk Radio (the Mad Dog if he's not in jail) to get kiid's take on the Knix.

So you're in favor of trading down if not the #1 pick?
kiid will undoubtedly join you.  He never wants to hold position.
But in his case I think it stems from an elusive desire to never be wrong on a draft.  It's a handy backup.  Well, I said we should have traded up/down/lived in an alternate universe.

I'm not a draftnik and completely ignorant of the college game.  So rely on what I pick up here and from other sites.  Your fave site has Reddish very low and Culver very high.  If so, Reddish may be a good trade down option (?)

Cool to see there's a Georgian player in their late lottery (Clyde's from Georgia  ...  I kid)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 19, 2019, 08:22:18 AM
I think I made it fairly clear Barrett is my pick at #2.  Have a Coke and a smile.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 19, 2019, 08:23:35 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on March 18, 2019, 11:49:19 PM


Nobody "develops" playing in trash soup.

Good line.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 19, 2019, 08:25:55 AM
Thanks for the links, Prez.  Point made.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 19, 2019, 11:54:28 AM
Gaining experience and confidence is part of development.  So is bouncing back from bad games.  And figuring out how your skills translate to an NBA role.  And learning what you need to work on.

IMO:
Mitch developed and is already a legit 15-20 min rotation player.
Datsun developed and also looks like he belongs in an NBA rotation.
- Not bad for a  pair of 2nd rounders.

I think both Mud and Trier developed.  Their flaws were also on display, but they both showed growth and potential, and that they have some reliable skills.
Vonleh had a strong, steady first half of the season.  Check.
Knox absorbed a ton of minutes and entered the school of hard knox at times.  This should be good for his future.  He's still growing into his body.
Kornet improved on defense.

That's half the team who developed/improved/gained useful experience.   7 of the 9 who were here all season benefitted from this year under Fizz.  Not bad for castoffs, 2nd rounders and pups.  The two other guys with the team the whole year were Franc & Zonja who struggled with injuries and poor play and didn't have good years.

Other roster spots are held by either new additions, didn't play much or both.  Jr. Smith not here long enough.
Lance is who he is, will be gone, and didn't play much.
DeAndre a newly-added vet who can work in a system next year if still here.
Kadeem, Jenkins, Hellenson -- limited mins in limited games, but each has had a good game or two.

NY fans always in a rush.
We have perhaps the youngest team in the League.
So you can't expect consistency or wins or good defense.
We'll start building that up next year from scratch, when hopefully we've added one or two legit starters.  Rotations and units and such will begin to crystallize.  But unless we hit a grand slam in FA, this is a multi year process which started from Less than Zero last Summer.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 19, 2019, 12:16:32 PM
Of course there's some improvement through minutes alone — but not nearly as much as would have been with a coach who walked the walk. Pretty minimal overall. Coming from his background, Mitch had nowhere to go but huge up with any significant time. Datsun, yes, generally upward. Trier is basically the same player he was week one. Vonleh not much different. Knox still looks like crap most of the time then has a decent offensive performance once-in-awhile. Kornet is actually far less impactful then initially after the five minutes it took for the league to figure out you got a throw a hand at him on the perimeter and he'll miss.

I'm not in a rush. I don't expect consistency or wins or good defense.

But I expect improved defense, improved game situation performance, improved team play, improved court awareness, improved ball movement. That you build on. That you take with you. That's the first step in the multi-year process.

Trash soup delivered.
Crap coach by all we've seen so far. All IMHO.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on March 19, 2019, 01:05:20 PM
I've been reading The Stepian all year. There's fantastic material there, one of the best sites on the draft.

That said, this was a terrible article. There's much better stuff elsewhere on the site.

I don't advocate trading down normally because it's really hard to do. Very few of those trades can be pulled off. But it's really easy to claim before/after every draft that the team should draft out of a position. If you're looking for lazy analysis, look to the guy who says trade out of the pick.

All that said, I think RJ is really underrated by the stat heads because his intangibles don't show up. And Morant has a tonne of potential although NY is a bad spot for him. So maybe it's a three person draft, but after the second pick, I'm less excited for the Knicks. I'd definitely take calls about trading down, sure, why not. But if not, I'm excited to learn about more of those "Tier 3" guys, because a couple of them are likely to turn out to be bonafide starters, and quite a few busts.
Title: Let me play both sides of the fence
Post by: Kam on March 19, 2019, 01:16:13 PM
Yeah a lot of these young kids are going to develop with minutes.  The coach controls minutes.  So Fizdale could be the worst strategic and motivational coach in the world but some players will still get better if he gives them minutes.

So i'm not going to say Mitch is Mitch because of Fizz.  But the minutes helped.   (And fwiw Mitch has credited Fizz a good deal with his success.)

Fizdale entertains me more than our previous coaches.  I don't know if he's been good.   Grade?  Can't see giving him anything better than a C minus.  You give him an F?   OK.  That's fine.   

Bigger fish to fry.  Those fish are named Perry and Mills.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 19, 2019, 01:25:40 PM
Regarding the article PrezIke initially posted,  I saw all the negative comments to it first, and then i went back and clicked on the link.  I actually appreciated the opinion espoused that the 2, 3, and 4 slots were worth less than in a normal draft.   

I always wish draft sites listed players drafted at the position in recent years.... so you have an idea at the relative talent that you should expect with a #2 pick.   I didnt see their analysis of prior drafts but i appreciate the NEW opinion that if RJ Barrett is the #2 in this draft... he would've been #7 last year (for example).  That lets you know the strength of the draft.

Now the advice to trade down is easier said than done.  I don't feel comfortable doing that and watching RJ become a stud so we can take a "safer" pick.

So the link was a mixed bag from a good site.  I have no regrets clicking.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 19, 2019, 01:37:03 PM
One thing I've found interesting from past drafts are players who generate buzz in the week or two prior to the draft.  After lots of analysis and film and especially workouts, there starts to be a consensus, or at least a strong minority opinion, that these late risers are NBA ready.  Last year it was Shai and John Collins.  And both look good.

I'd have to look up the previous year's draft to recall who was a late riser then.

Going back quite a ways, I remember that Amare had a good deal of late buzz, with one scout going so far as to say that he might be the best player in the whole class.

Again, the draft is not my specialty.  And picking Top 5, the Late Riser phenomena is probably less important (unless we Trade Down!).    But it seems most years the late buzz and late risers turn out pretty good.
Title: In a way
Post by: Kam on March 19, 2019, 02:18:19 PM
This article preps us for the 52% chance that we don't get the #1 #2 #3 or #4 pick.

So if we draft at #5 keep an eye on guys not named Williamson Morant and Barrett. 

Tier ONE

1. Zion
2. Morant
3. Barrett


Drafting #5 is really like having the #2 pick in the 2nd tier.


So is there a difference between Reddish, Culver, Langford, Washington, etc...?

Let's find out.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 19, 2019, 02:57:16 PM
".........which started from less than zero last summer"

Heh - very funny line.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 19, 2019, 04:03:57 PM
Get your tourney winners in on the NCAA board.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 19, 2019, 07:15:55 PM
https://tournament.fantasysports.yahoo.com/t1/group/174291/invitation?key=4ae1ca665fccc402&soc_trk=lnk (https://tournament.fantasysports.yahoo.com/t1/group/174291/invitation?key=4ae1ca665fccc402&soc_trk=lnk)

Tourney pickem

Password is Hachimura
Title: PICK'EM
Post by: carlos123 on March 19, 2019, 09:50:43 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 19, 2019, 07:15:55 PM
https://tournament.fantasysports.yahoo.com/t1/group/174291/invitation?key=4ae1ca665fccc402&soc_trk=lnk (https://tournament.fantasysports.yahoo.com/t1/group/174291/invitation?key=4ae1ca665fccc402&soc_trk=lnk)

Tourney pickem

Password is Hachimura

Only one member so far ...

C'mon guys, don't be like me and join Chico already!

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/M2wRcDMi0m8/maxresdefault.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on March 20, 2019, 03:08:46 PM
carlos

14%  say that with me  14%.

try it this way 86% against.
Title: Zion Williamson
Post by: carlos123 on March 20, 2019, 03:39:10 PM
Quote from: Nagel on March 20, 2019, 03:08:46 PM
carlos

14%  say that with me  14%.

try it this way 86% against.

I can dream until draft day.

Did you join Chico’s group? I didn’t 😉
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 20, 2019, 03:54:03 PM
Quote from: Nagel on March 20, 2019, 03:08:46 PM


try it this way 86% against.

In the old format it would still be 75% against.

I think the real pain in the new format for the worst team is that they've a better shot at 5th when previously could do no worse than 4th.
Title: Who ya got?
Post by: Kam on March 20, 2019, 04:59:56 PM
Derrick Rose

or

Derrick White


The winner will have a flavor of Wine named after them.


I take my back-court players the same way i take my wine.

On the rocks!
Title: Wine on the rocks? 🥴
Post by: carlos123 on March 20, 2019, 05:32:43 PM
Quote from: Kam on March 20, 2019, 04:59:56 PM
Derrick Rose

or

Derrick White


The winner will have a flavor of Wine named after them.


I take my back-court players the same way i take my wine.

On the rocks!

Guess you never had a decent wine 🍷
Title: Re: Zion Williamson
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 20, 2019, 08:00:41 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on March 20, 2019, 03:39:10 PM
Quote from: Nagel on March 20, 2019, 03:08:46 PM
carlos

14%  say that with me  14%.

try it this way 86% against.

I can dream until draft day.

Did you join Chico’s group? I didn’t 😉

blocked
Title: Re: Wine on the rocks? 🥴
Post by: Kam on March 20, 2019, 09:11:21 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on March 20, 2019, 05:32:43 PM
Quote from: Kam on March 20, 2019, 04:59:56 PM
Derrick Rose

or

Derrick White


The winner will have a flavor of Wine named after them.


I take my back-court players the same way i take my wine.

On the rocks!

Guess you never had a decent wine 🍷




The 🍷 emoji!!  Where was that all season when we needed it?


🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 20, 2019, 09:51:00 PM
Who watched Knicks-Jazz? Who watched Celtics-Philly?



* I chose the latter, and it was awesome!
** And I dare any of you beeyatches to tell me Kevin Knox had a good game. Nobody had a good game when the opponent has 111 points by the end of the 3rd, lol...
*** And if you made the mistake of choosing the Knicks, here is my gift to you:
https://twitter.com/HoHighlights/status/1108545167844405248 (https://twitter.com/HoHighlights/status/1108545167844405248)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 20, 2019, 09:59:15 PM
I didn't realize there was a Knicks game.  I was watching Philly Celts.  But nothing matters until the playoffs start.  This part of the NBA season is tough.  There are almost no compelling playoff races.  Its mostly about seeding 3-8 in the west and 6-8 in the east.

James Harden needs to finish his case for MVP.  It is his to lose. 
Trae Young can try to make his case for CO-ROY
What else is there to follow...  Miami and Dwade getting in over Orlando?

Just praying for no injuries to key players.
Title: BLOCKED BY CHICO ... LMAO!!!
Post by: carlos123 on March 20, 2019, 11:56:04 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 20, 2019, 08:00:41 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on March 20, 2019, 03:39:10 PM
Quote from: Nagel on March 20, 2019, 03:08:46 PM
carlos

14%  say that with me  14%.

try it this way 86% against.

I can dream until draft day.

Did you join Chico’s group? I didn’t 😉

blocked

(https://i.gifer.com/8rWn.gif)

Or was it Nagel that you BLOCKED?

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/37a23d448379500929033492525f1cb2/tenor.gif?itemid=12159259)
Title: OKC - TOR
Post by: Kam on March 21, 2019, 12:18:12 AM
Quite a comeback late in OKC to force OT 110-110

it was TOR with a 100-89 lead under 6 minutes to play in the game.
And OKC makes a furious comeback behind threes from Westbrook (1) and PG (2)

With Russ or PG on LEonard
Toronto runs their offense through Siakam
And it worked!

PG fouled out in regulation.

Raps scored like the first 10 points of overtime and it was over.

OKC drops from 5th to 8th in the West.   Hmmm... KD-Russ first round?

10 games to go.
Title: St. Johns
Post by: Kam on March 21, 2019, 01:07:42 AM
Chris Mullins' crew -- OUT!  Don't make the final 64.   A bunch of losses to end the season.


Come coach the Knicks!
Title: October 2019 Starting Lineup
Post by: Kam on March 21, 2019, 01:16:47 AM
Mitchell Robinson/Brook Lopez (one year $12.5 mil)
ONE Max Free Agent let's say KD
First round Draft pick let's say another Wing
Dame Dotson
Ricky Rubio (one year 12.5 mil)

6th man: Iso-ZO

Bench mafia: Knox, DSJ, Franc, Jenkins, and
a resigned Noah Vonleh or DeAndre Jordan (one year 12.5 mil)
and some of the best veteran role players for the league minimum
Title: NBA Summer League goes International!
Post by: Kam on March 21, 2019, 01:32:45 AM
Team China and Team Croatia added to NBA Summer League?!!  This aggression shall not stand!

https://www.nba.com/article/2019/03/20/2019-nba-summer-league-teams-announced (https://www.nba.com/article/2019/03/20/2019-nba-summer-league-teams-announced)

Quote
NEW YORK -- The NBA announced today that the Chinese and Croatian National Teams will join all 30 NBA teams to compete at MGM Resorts NBA Summer League 2019, marking the first time that the league will feature two international teams.  The 15th NBA Summer League will take place July 5-15 at the Thomas & Mack Center and Cox Pavilion on the campus of the University of Nevada, Las Vegas.

Team China previously played in Las Vegas at NBA Summer League 2007. Team Croatia will make its NBA Summer League debut.
Title: Re: NBA Summer League goes International!
Post by: Kam on March 21, 2019, 01:38:26 AM
Quote from: Kam on March 21, 2019, 01:32:45 AM
Team China added to NBA Summer League?!!


Now those Chinese kids can get chance to shoplift from us! Steal some BBBs.
Title: Scouting Report
Post by: Kam on March 21, 2019, 01:39:49 AM
Bo can give us the Team China scouting report.  Who gonna guard Zion and who checkin MVP Knox?
Title: Re: Scouting Report
Post by: Kam on March 21, 2019, 01:40:10 AM
Quote from: Kam on March 21, 2019, 01:39:49 AM
Bo can give us the Team China scouting report.  Who gonna guard Zion and who checkin MVP Knox?

Jimmer?
Title: Re: NBA Summer League goes International!
Post by: Kam on March 21, 2019, 01:41:46 AM
Quote from: Kam on March 21, 2019, 01:32:45 AM
Team China and Team Croatia added to NBA Summer League?!!  This aggression shall not stand!


The China-man isn't the issue!
Title: Re: Scouting Report
Post by: Kam on March 21, 2019, 01:45:35 AM
Quote from: Kam on March 21, 2019, 01:40:10 AM
Quote from: Kam on March 21, 2019, 01:39:49 AM
Bo can give us the Team China scouting report.  Who gonna guard Zion and who checkin MVP Knox?

Jimmer?

Actually it was Josh Hart of the Lakers who stole the MVP from Knox by getting the Summer Lakers to the championship game
Title: Re: Scouting Report 🍸
Post by: carlos123 on March 21, 2019, 02:16:38 AM
Quote from: Kam on March 21, 2019, 01:40:10 AM
Quote from: Kam on March 21, 2019, 01:39:49 AM
Bo can give us the Team China scouting report.  Who gonna guard Zion and who checkin MVP Knox?

Jimmer?

Jimmer ain’t gonna check any of those two, but he’s gonna be the MVP!

Just ask Chico 🍷
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 21, 2019, 02:19:05 AM
Phoenix, worried they are getting outtanked, is reportedly in talks with Jimmer who still has more freak appeal than their equally talented ball boy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 21, 2019, 07:07:55 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on March 20, 2019, 09:51:00 PM
Who watched Knicks-Jazz? Who watched Celtics-Philly?

* I chose the latter, and it was awesome!
** And I dare any of you beeyatches to tell me Kevin Knox had a good game. Nobody had a good game when the opponent has 111 points by the end of the 3rd, lol...
*** And if you made the mistake of choosing the Knicks, here is my gift to you:
https://twitter.com/HoHighlights/status/1108545167844405248 (https://twitter.com/HoHighlights/status/1108545167844405248)

Guilty. Yeah, it was pretty miserable. Feels a little masochistic as this point.

Guys seem to be playing worse...or is it my imagination? I like how Utah runs their offense though. The contrast jumps out.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 21, 2019, 08:50:37 AM
Quote from: Kam on March 20, 2019, 09:59:15 PM
I didn't realize there was a Knicks game.  I was watching Philly Celts.  But nothing matters until the playoffs start.  This part of the NBA season is tough.  There are almost no compelling playoff races.  Its mostly about seeding 3-8 in the west and 6-8 in the east.



.....unless you care about top seed and home court
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on March 21, 2019, 09:09:23 AM
I think the Sixers had to find a way to beat the Celtics at least once this season. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 21, 2019, 09:18:35 AM
Quote from: elephant on March 21, 2019, 07:07:55 AM

Guilty. Yeah, it was pretty miserable. Feels a little masochistic as this point.


You earned a medal! I'm out for the rest of the season, save maybe a few quarters if Frank comes back.

Nothing to see here fellas, just move right along

*** 111 points through 3 quarters, lol, lol, got to get Kanter out of there, he's a sieve, what? what do you mean he's not on the team? when did that happen....

Actually, I definitely would have watched had Frankie been around, for the hope of seeing this again:
https://youtu.be/E8kU5w7bYDA (https://youtu.be/E8kU5w7bYDA)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 21, 2019, 09:25:06 AM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on March 21, 2019, 09:09:23 AM
I think the Sixers had to find a way to beat the Celtics at least once this season.

Yeah.... but momentum can be important.  Conference final if Celts can get there would be interesting
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 21, 2019, 09:26:02 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on March 21, 2019, 09:18:35 AM
Quote from: elephant on March 21, 2019, 07:07:55 AM

Guilty. Yeah, it was pretty miserable. Feels a little masochistic as this point.


You earned a medal! I'm out for the rest of the season, save maybe a few quarters if Frank comes back.

Nothing to see here fellas, just move right along

Yeah, Jimmer made the playoffs so never came back over
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on March 21, 2019, 09:31:47 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 21, 2019, 09:25:06 AM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on March 21, 2019, 09:09:23 AM
I think the Sixers had to find a way to beat the Celtics at least once this season.

Yeah.... but momentum can be important.  Conference final if Celts can get there would be interesting
Right.  Which is why I thought the game last night was important.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 21, 2019, 09:57:24 AM
Misread that a bit.  My bad.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on March 21, 2019, 10:05:07 AM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on March 21, 2019, 09:09:23 AM
I think the Sixers had to find a way to beat the Celtics at least once this season.

I think Dave Zinkoff was reffing the game
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on March 21, 2019, 10:07:34 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 21, 2019, 09:25:06 AM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on March 21, 2019, 09:09:23 AM
I think the Sixers had to find a way to beat the Celtics at least once this season.

Yeah.... but momentum can be important.  Conference final if Celts can get there would be interesting

The East is going to be a fun war. Not sure the Celts will survive it. About the only thing consistent about their play has been their inconsistency.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 21, 2019, 10:15:40 AM
Good for the league if they dont
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on March 21, 2019, 10:32:27 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 21, 2019, 10:15:40 AM
Good for the league if they dont

Why?

There's star power, young players, history to market.

I'm pretty sure the league might prefer the Celts to Milwaukee, Toronto or Indy in the Finals, Philly would be a push.

Celts have been way too inconsistent/infuriating this year, for lots of reasons. They need to get on the same page soon.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 21, 2019, 10:40:52 AM
Star power?

I think Kyrie's decision is a good story line, should they fail.

And how long do they wait with Stevens?

https://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/stevebr99c.html (https://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/stevebr99c.html)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on March 21, 2019, 11:12:26 AM
I think the Celts have suffiicent "star power" for TNT/ABC/ESPN to market with KI, Tatum Brown Horford.

YMMV

and the KI's story line of  "will he/won't he" is there

IMO there's a lot to sell and very attractive about the Celts

except half the time they play with their collective heads up their ass.

Brad get some blame, but he had an unusual situation to balance with Gordo coming back at way less than 100%, but he needed PT, the KI drama, Rozier having an off year,  and the AD trade talk that added insecurity and all but killed the Lakers.

Brad's  a good coach (though he sucks at calling TOs-sometimes I swear we're watching different games) but he's safe. Ainge gets some blame too.

its been a strange year.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 21, 2019, 12:34:53 PM
Welcome back, JIMMER!

https://sports.yahoo.com/jimmer-fredette-reportedly-meeting-with-suns-could-sign-for-rest-of-season-142412734.html (https://sports.yahoo.com/jimmer-fredette-reportedly-meeting-with-suns-could-sign-for-rest-of-season-142412734.html)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 21, 2019, 12:45:42 PM
I'm seeing that Jim Jam signed for the rest of this year and a PHX team option for next season.
https://nba.nbcsports.com/2019/03/21/report-suns-signing-jimmer-fredette-to-two-year-contract/

Being reported as a 2 year deal.  technically true, but really it's more like a 10-day contract with a team option on next year.

Anyway a chance.
Hit some 3's pass to Ayton & Booker, that's my advice.
If he gets minutes.

They play at Utah on Monday, so they could easily insert him for a few minutes to the crowd's delight . . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 21, 2019, 01:06:59 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on March 21, 2019, 10:32:27 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 21, 2019, 10:15:40 AM
Good for the league if they dont

Why?

There's star power, young players, history to market.

I'm pretty sure the league might prefer the Celts to Milwaukee, Toronto or Indy in the Finals, Philly would be a push.

Celts have been way too inconsistent/infuriating this year, for lots of reasons. They need to get on the same page soon.


I want a Toronto-Milwaukee conf. final.

Remember when Vince missed the last shot in Game 7 to attend his college graduation? Or something like that?

http://ballislife.com/2001-vince-carters-bittersweet-graduation-day-ends-with-a-missed-shot-in-gm7/ (http://ballislife.com/2001-vince-carters-bittersweet-graduation-day-ends-with-a-missed-shot-in-gm7/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 21, 2019, 01:17:16 PM
PHX has a slew of players dinged up.
Tyler Johnson, Holmes, TJ Warren, Oubre.

Uber had been playing well until he hurt his thumb.
Averaged 24 Pts his last 4 games.  Had 3 straight games with 2 assists.  Incremental improvement.

For PHX, Uber has averaged 17 / 5 / 1.6 assists and 1.4 steals in 40 games.  45% / 33 / 76 shooting splits.  4 FTA's per.  Pretty solid
numbers for a 23 year old.

Since becoming a starter post-AS, in 12 games, Uber 20 Pts  5.7 boards 1.6 assists, 2 steals and a block.  47% FG and 34% on 3's.

Edit: Phoenix Suns forward Kelly Oubre Jr. will undergo a minor procedure on his left thumb and miss the rest of the season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 22, 2019, 01:02:18 AM
I dreamed Jimmer scored 101 in Utah
Title: Re: In a way
Post by: thebizneverloses on March 22, 2019, 01:44:53 AM
Quote from: Kam on March 19, 2019, 02:18:19 PM
This article preps us for the 52% chance that we don't get the #1 #2 #3 or #4 pick.

So if we draft at #5 keep an eye on guys not named Williamson Morant and Barrett. 

Tier ONE

1. Zion
2. Morant
3. Barrett


Drafting #5 is really like having the #2 pick in the 2nd tier.


So is there a difference between Reddish, Culver, Langford, Washington, etc...?

Let's find out.

Let's see where we pick but I'd be rather uncomfortable taking Ja over RJ.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 22, 2019, 05:04:34 AM
5-8th seeds in the west are all tied. It’s crazy.

Beyond Mr. Obvious Williamson I don’t have a strong fix on where anyone is in this draft. Tourney will tell some more of the story as it progresses.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 22, 2019, 08:42:02 AM
It's more about the predraft workouts, camps and the combine.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 22, 2019, 10:18:33 AM
Thunder were on a tear, then slumped.  At least they lost to good teams during a tough stretch.
SA slumped through a 1-7 roadeo trip, then won 9 in a row mostly at home before a loss to MIA.
Only DEN (30) has more home wins than SAS.  Spurs with an ugly 13-22 road record.

For the lower tier out West, #5 seed looks good, as POR is always playoff beatable.
Then I'd take #7, preferring DEN to GSW or HOU.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 22, 2019, 10:24:17 AM
Saw MEM-HOU the other day and Griz coughed up a 14 point lead with 4:30 left, in just 2 mins I think.  Some real sloppy play.  Up 2 with 23.5 secs left, Justin Holiday just needs to get across halfcourt and Rockettes would have to foul.  Instead he gets stripped in the backcourt and Harden gets a clear layup.  Ugh.

In OT it was nice to see Chandler Parsnips hit a pair of Big 3's.
I didn't even realize he was playing again.
I think he finished 3-7 on 3's, and was just 0-4 in regulation, but hit some big shots to get an odd W.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 22, 2019, 11:08:02 AM
Harden takes 40 f'n shots in a loss to a mediocre team, and no doubt he shot well, but even in the "new NBA" I can't be convinced that squad will ever win anything. 8 assists not impressive when you're handling the ball that much and getting that much attention. Can't find Capela for two more easy buckets and get the win?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 22, 2019, 12:10:48 PM
Zion might be Charles Barkley 
Ja might be Dame Lillard

Zion might be The Greek Freak 0.9
Ja might be Russ Westbrook


I'm more comfortable with the Ja archtype in the NBA than the Zion one.

Is Zion gonna be able to play Defense vs taller dudes?  The Paul Georges of the world. Everyone in the frontcourt in the NBA is 6'9 and above.  Zion gonna stop anyone?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on March 22, 2019, 12:20:27 PM
Does anybody in the NBA stop the Paul Georges of the world?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 22, 2019, 01:35:40 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on March 22, 2019, 12:20:27 PM
Does anybody in the NBA stop the Paul Georges of the world?

Will Zion even be in the same tier as .... take your pick

Kawhi
PG13
Giannis

Or is he in the

Blake Griffin tier... one step below.

Blake was incredible early on.  Same type of power and athleticism but in a taller frame.
He is still pretty good. 

Just wondering if THAT guy will be the best player to take to win.  Can you build around a scores-in-the-paint guy in this NBA?  Yes if his name is Giannis.  If his name is Zion?  Maybe... or maybe he gets stuffed a lot.  Maybe he looks like Carmelo circa 2016, getting his shots blocked at the rim.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on March 22, 2019, 01:41:04 PM
I see no reason why he's not in that top tier.  But, I think it's essentially a two-player draft, he and Morant.  I think the Reddish and Barretts of the world are available in every draft.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 22, 2019, 02:05:23 PM
https://twitter.com/RexChapman/status/1108844817654734848 (https://twitter.com/RexChapman/status/1108844817654734848)

Where do LAL go from here?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 22, 2019, 02:33:18 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on March 22, 2019, 01:41:04 PM
I see no reason why he's not in that top tier.  But, I think it's essentially a two-player draft, he and Morant.  I think the Reddish and Barretts of the world are available in every draft.

I agree about wanting one of the top 2 picks.  I'll sign for #2 right now.


But Zion is playing Center.  He is the same height as Draymond Green.  So he isn't a bad choice.  Will the team that takes him build around Zion as a Center?


BUT we are still wondering the answer to the question: Can Draymond Green lead a team?  Can you build around that guy? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 22, 2019, 02:38:38 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 22, 2019, 02:05:23 PM
https://twitter.com/RexChapman/status/1108844817654734848 (https://twitter.com/RexChapman/status/1108844817654734848)

Where do LAL go from here?

That was so fun for me!  I loved every moment.   Gosh if LeBron had been a Knick i'd be such a stan but it is sooo fun to see him lose BIGLY.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 22, 2019, 02:54:45 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on March 22, 2019, 01:41:04 PM
I see no reason why he's not in that top tier.  But, I think it's essentially a two-player draft, he and Morant.  I think the Reddish and Barretts of the world are available in every draft.

I think Barrett has separated himself from Reddish.  Cam is a freak athlete, however.  RJ more complete.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 22, 2019, 02:57:35 PM
Isnt Bolden Duke's center?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on March 22, 2019, 03:08:37 PM
I think Williamson is a positionless player. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 22, 2019, 03:31:08 PM
Interesting viewing choices - wanting to see the pro prospects in the 2 16 vs 1 games tonight - but knowing there is more dramatic action to tune in to.

Getting a good look tonight at White, Little (UNC), Reddish and Virginia's Hunter, if possible.  Saw Ky's Keldon Johnson yesterday for a bit.  He's interesting.  But after Knox......
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 22, 2019, 03:32:21 PM
Then of course there is Gonzaga's Hachimura and his rising teammate Brandon Clarke
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 22, 2019, 03:36:33 PM
That there’s experience with a rim running type center and three perimeter guys is a good sign.

It will be curious to see whether Morant is public with his weight closer to the draft.

Barrett seems safe at least to give a team something between John Simmons and Norm Powell. If Derozan is his ceiling, it’s not a terrible pick.

There are other guys I can see taking over three, but the top two have a big lead. 

Clarke is better than Hachimura.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 22, 2019, 03:47:08 PM
Ja over Barrett sure happened quickly.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 22, 2019, 03:49:37 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 22, 2019, 03:47:08 PM
Ja over Barrett sure happened quickly.

He is leading his own team, a mid-major, to a win in the Tourney behind his Triple Double.  He doesn't have a 1a like Zion or a 2 like Reddish
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 22, 2019, 03:53:06 PM
None of this matters

It is about projecting success as a pro.

Barrett has been the KING for quite some time.

Duke players underrated?  Yeah.... this is an example ("Well, he plays with Zion.......")

Reddish is falling based on a missing skill - this is different.  Kennard never rose - and likely should have.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 22, 2019, 04:49:44 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 22, 2019, 03:53:06 PM
None of this matters

It is about projecting success as a pro.


Morant will be a better pro than Zion.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 22, 2019, 04:52:15 PM
RJ Barrett is not Andre Barrett's kid by the way.
Title: Miles Plumlee?
Post by: Kam on March 22, 2019, 05:01:06 PM
https://nypost.com/2019/03/22/porn-star-teanna-trump-claims-she-had-sex-with-indiana-pacers-player-at-age-16/ (https://nypost.com/2019/03/22/porn-star-teanna-trump-claims-she-had-sex-with-indiana-pacers-player-at-age-16/)

Quote
Trump, for her part, did not identify the NBA player in question, citing her no-snitching policy. But she did acknowledge that she’s been considering naming a “famous athlete” she allowed to log into her social media accounts under the guise of “helping out” her business — only to find that he used that access to catfish unwitting men.

“I’ve been thinking about it,” Trump said when asked if she’s considering outing the latter athlete, who she later confirmed was also in the NBA.

She continued: “No, he went on there messaging men — hey, messaging men acting like me — but he was like, ‘I got a new number, hit me up, I got a new iPhone 10.’ And he would message them, ask them for videos.”

Trump further claimed that the unnamed NBA star posed as her while trying to get other men to send videos of them masturbating or having sex with women.

“Swear to God,” Trump said.

Seemingly unaware of the bombshell she had just dropped, Trump said she didn’t expect the player to be identified — although she did have some choice words for him in closing.

“But no one would ever know because I don’t follow anybody,” Trump said. “I’m not even kidding — and f–k you, you know who you are. I’m so pissed off about that s–t right now.”
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 22, 2019, 06:16:13 PM
Quote from: Kam on March 22, 2019, 04:49:44 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 22, 2019, 03:53:06 PM
None of this matters

It is about projecting success as a pro.


Morant will be a better pro than Zion.

It has happened before.

Are you saying we pass on Z?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 22, 2019, 09:20:47 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 22, 2019, 06:16:13 PM
Quote from: Kam on March 22, 2019, 04:49:44 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 22, 2019, 03:53:06 PM
None of this matters

It is about projecting success as a pro.


Morant will be a better pro than Zion.

It has happened before.

Are you saying we pass on Z?

Good question.   

We know the Knicks front office is obsessed with acquiring "Stars" so I think they happily draft Zion with no second thoughts. 

But if we ping-pong our way to the #2 pick and can choose between Ja and RJ i would have no complaints.

Title: Odds
Post by: Kam on March 22, 2019, 09:24:59 PM
As i understand it, we have about a 40% chance to draft one of the top three guys. 

If we get no luck and land 4th we still might get someone like Culver.

At fifth lots of choices...   Reddish, Romeo, and others....  or trade the pick.
Title: Zion
Post by: Kam on March 22, 2019, 09:31:15 PM
Scores at an above 70% clip in the paint.

DeAndre Jordan does too.

Zion scores in the paint using his 285 lb frame against players almost 100 lbs less.

He's not going to be able to be as dominant against bigger athletes.

Projecting HOW dominant is the question.
Title: Re: Zion
Post by: carlos123 on March 22, 2019, 09:40:46 PM
Quote from: Kam on March 22, 2019, 09:31:15 PM
Scores at an above 70% clip in the paint.

DeAndre Jordan does too.

Zion scores in the paint using his 285 lb frame against players almost 100 lbs less.

He's not going to be able to be as dominant against bigger athletes.

Projecting HOW dominant is the question.

THAT'S HOW
(https://theundefeated.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/GettyImages-1125441249-e1550491755602.jpg?w=700)
DOMINANT

Quote from: Kam on March 22, 2019, 09:24:59 PM

At fifth lots of choices...   Reddish, Romeo, and others....  or trade the pick.

Lets trade KK and the pick for a bag of beans.
Title: Sleeper
Post by: Kam on March 22, 2019, 10:00:32 PM
Nassir Little.
Title: The pick is an asset
Post by: Kam on March 22, 2019, 10:02:36 PM
I seriously doubt we trade the pick.  But if we end up 5th and don't like any of the guys there maybe we can parlay that into a later first rounder and another first next year.
Title: Re: Odds
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 22, 2019, 10:40:42 PM
Quote from: Kam on March 22, 2019, 09:24:59 PM
As i understand it, we have about a 40% chance to draft one of the top three guys. 

If we get no luck and land 4th we still might get someone like Culver.

At fifth lots of choices...   Reddish, Romeo, and others....  or trade the pick.

Nah - higher than 40.

We cannot go lower than 5.  No way 4 and 5 make up 60%
Title: Re: Odds
Post by: Kam on March 22, 2019, 11:56:22 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 22, 2019, 10:40:42 PM
Quote from: Kam on March 22, 2019, 09:24:59 PM
As i understand it, we have about a 40% chance to draft one of the top three guys. 

If we get no luck and land 4th we still might get someone like Culver.

At fifth lots of choices...   Reddish, Romeo, and others....  or trade the pick.

Nah - higher than 40.

We cannot go lower than 5.  No way 4 and 5 make up 60%

I'm fairly certain this is the breakdown

14% chance at 1 (certain)
12.5% chance at 2
11.5% chance at 3
10% chance at 4
52% chance at 5 (certain)


38% chance we land a Zion a Ja or a RJ

10% Culver

52% Little


Damn... when is this lottery... May 14th?  Lots can happen.
Title: Marial Shayok - Iowa State
Post by: Kam on March 23, 2019, 12:07:36 AM
Name to watch in the 2nd round. He improved his stock in a loss.

6'6"  200lbs   SG  88% shooter from the line.

Ranked 100 on ESPN's board but that's gonna change.
Title: Kevin Knox - bright sign?
Post by: Kam on March 23, 2019, 12:37:10 AM
averaging 19.3 and 5.5 the last 4 games.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 23, 2019, 01:38:07 AM
De’Andre Hunter from UVA could be someone to think about with a 4th or 5th pick.
Title: Re: Kevin Knox - bright sign?
Post by: lesterluv on March 23, 2019, 08:27:47 AM
Quote from: Kam on March 23, 2019, 12:37:10 AM
averaging 19.3 and 5.5 the last 4 games.

no.
actually watched the game (to see Frank).
Nuggets destroyed us while he was "playing."
Didnt when he wasn't.
Title: Re: Odds
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 23, 2019, 10:54:38 AM
Quote from: Kam on March 22, 2019, 11:56:22 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 22, 2019, 10:40:42 PM
Quote from: Kam on March 22, 2019, 09:24:59 PM
As i understand it, we have about a 40% chance to draft one of the top three guys. 

If we get no luck and land 4th we still might get someone like Culver.

At fifth lots of choices...   Reddish, Romeo, and others....  or trade the pick.

Nah - higher than 40.

We cannot go lower than 5.  No way 4 and 5 make up 60%

I'm fairly certain this is the breakdown

14% chance at 1 (certain)
12.5% chance at 2
11.5% chance at 3
10% chance at 4
52% chance at 5 (certain)


38% chance we land a Zion a Ja or a RJ

10% Culver

52% Little


Damn... when is this lottery... May 14th?  Lots can happen.

ok.....

lets lock in on the 5 then. Gotta look at Gonzaga more closely.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 23, 2019, 02:36:31 PM
I will look at Hunter as well.  Reddish certainly an interesting talent for the right coach.  Not sure we have that.  But if we plan on having Frank play - Cam is an excellent thought as defensive force with Frank and Mitch.  (Frank has to embrace his defensive identity and stamp that type will on the game).  Likely I go away from Hunter and Reddish at 5.  Culver very likely gone but if he is there he is certainly near top of list.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 23, 2019, 02:46:47 PM
Kentucky's Johnson also on the list - game vs Wofford about to start  (Washington not playing)
Title: Re: Kevin Knox and a bag of beans
Post by: carlos123 on March 23, 2019, 09:03:45 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on March 23, 2019, 08:27:47 AM
Quote from: Kam on March 23, 2019, 12:37:10 AM
averaging 19.3 and 5.5 the last 4 games.

no.
actually watched the game (to see Frank).
Nuggets destroyed us while he was "playing."
Didnt when he wasn't.

That's why I suggested trading KK and our #5 pick for a ...

(https://www.futons.net/images/products/detail/bagofbeans.jpg)

Just to get rid of Knox. Maybe we could find us an actual coach while we're at it. Whaddaya think Les?

(https://i.imgur.com/70UE79a.gif)    (https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/WRAQzItXfQh5PMNOOuKQqIe5_MV6ydOi2ZBMt0oz7mRlSInllWiUrWjccgiOOttZwUjFrqlx8FGUMktNEJsssSp7zt8RCJ7MKCMZS0tD24LMxMryK3OWrigE8CzHabg5qwI4Doz5dRr_LD7DIoTOo_8XtidCzU9aYrUoXWYVJ9aqnW2JyLwnpmEaXCSusMpQXU3cC6ntSS345CmmCdO1b2VIkStIoNrqZyn2S6kiV3dh_6santA6dIL6OT5rIJW6xIeBwqqs5Y1vFjBA1H3Fb_tMTB_INeh5lwNfA9UrVObKJayJ-Xl3Y9CHpNH888VBnYi5-59438uMaxmu6RTXyhJBeyXQNyE6RqUZpI5YnN52fnmvW-a7bsQmJit7s3gYKaaGNM98rau1u1rXESc4vQg2NWIQHkGPM_DyOZ0KPcGFKrznEvjKRIAZRQw6NQ7k5esrTdI1O5fgMr1tu9ZYfC6QkzL41J6JZFewwiFlt6vao8nOsq3v2GdhKgvmSSAZVHYtVtLsPTxZWqT-R1ajboYWJJHHaDYLygdPhiKQYKgWI9QxLVuYWYapbdaP30mklZvQ0cM8y94kxJyuvIwOfi8KgQIvd3w8pHwZmU6FGoCSv0D3VlOv-guHg02AAH3xN3ygMonUeBRBbjKkRgFIYI-ejdGCJ7M=w1199-h600-no)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on March 23, 2019, 10:15:27 PM
JA is #2 or #3.  NY really needs not to fall out of top 3.

however Dolan"s Karma insures a #5 pick.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 24, 2019, 02:58:40 AM
Quote
14% chance at 1 (certain)
12.5% chance at 2
11.5% chance at 3
10% chance at 4
52% chance at 5 (certain)

Assuming that's correct, it's a 26% chance of #1 or #2.
21% chance of 3 or 4.
Nearly 75% chance of 3-5.

slightly over 50% chance of 5th.
And the 48% chance of 1-4 is split nearly evenly between those 4 slots.  If you switch from %'s to ratios it sounds (slightly) better.
1st - 1 in 7 chance
2nd - 1/8
3rd - 1/9
4th - 1/10
5th - 1/2\

Basically, without some major luck, Knix be drafting 3-5, and most likely 5th, more likely 4th or 5th, etc.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 24, 2019, 03:09:11 AM
MIL with some ill-timed injuries.
Brogdon, Mr Key Guy, probably missing 1st round of playoffs.
Mirrortrick* out for rest of season, hopefully back for playoffs.
GrandPau Gasol bum ankle out a month.

Not shaping up well for MIL.  Gotta hope to sweep the 1st round and have time to heal up.  Need the Frog back for 2nd round, and Mirotic important too in any tough series.


* try to logically explain why a mirror reverses left and right but not top and bottom.  We all know this is true, but explaining it is surprisingly complicated.  I think I have a simple elegant explanation, but it's not one of the 2 or 3 scientific explanations competing out there. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 24, 2019, 02:42:16 PM
Another loss. So....what happened to Kornet? Injured? In as much as these games don't mean shit, it's odd that he's not even playing a minute.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 24, 2019, 02:49:59 PM
Pretty good Knick game.
I just accidentally tuned in early 1Q.
Thought it was a replay for some time, before I realized it was live.

Both teams played hard and competed.
DeAndre the Giant was revved.
Mud was having a fine game until he started making mistakes left and right and center the last few minutes.
Lost his man for a wide open Clip 3.
Barreled into Gallo twice -- once a fortunate no-call (no charge), the second time he didn't have a layup and threw the ball away.
Lost his focus.

Franc got mildly reinjured; Know turned his ankle; Zonja tried but is sloppy.  Dot and Mitch were effective. 
Knix played pretty well, until they started losing everyone on the perimeter late.

Love the tenacity of Harrell & Pa Bev.
Shai Guy also gets into it on D, but sometimes overdoes it.
63 points for Clips bench v. 61 from their starters.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 24, 2019, 03:00:25 PM
You can't make chop suey out of ... wait, how does that saying go?

Fizzy went with Kadeem and Jenkins.
Chop Suey and Hellenson pined away.
Lance played a lot.  But I think that's because Fizz wanted someone who wouldn't be afraid of Montrezl.

I haven't seen enough lately to know what's going on with rotations and such.  But Fizz played 3 guards a lot, with Kadeem out there with Dot and Mud.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 24, 2019, 03:09:22 PM
Quote
“Having veterans, I think, solid veteran play, always helps young guys,” Knicks coach David Fizdale said. “I was thinking about Scott Perry’s teams in Detroit when Tayshaun [Prince] got there. He wasn’t great at everything, but he could be impactful on games, because he had Chauncey and Rip and Rasheed and Ben Wallace and Lindsay Hunter. So he could come along a little slower with his process, figure things out. His warts didn’t show as much because other guys weren’t messing up."

“Kevin’s warts show, because everybody else is screwing up, too. So we can’t tuck him away and hide those things right now. But I think going through this is as good as going through it with veterans, because , and I think he’s going this fast-tracks you. This forces you to have to go through all of it and really face what you’re weak at in an immediate way. So I think all of this stuff has been good for himto be different than those numbers.”

I can endorse this.
I've said much the same.

It's not ideal to have your prized rook struggle for stretches.
But it's also not good to limit his minutes if he isn't doing well at times on a good vet team.

Fizz is keeping Knox positive and letting him work through things.
An 82 game season is long, especially when you lose 65 of them.
Lots of Knix got experience and learned about the NBA this year.

it's good DeGiant and Lance and Bernard the King are all talking with Knox and helping him through the end of this year.

Knox might miss a few games with the ankle, though it didn't look serious.  And they get better treatment than just my bag of ice.

Be a shame if Franc doesn't get at least 5 or more games in to finish the year.  There's a sense Franc could be shipped out.
Title: Boston & NY
Post by: carlos123 on March 24, 2019, 03:11:09 PM
Hey Bank, I think your team misses Kelly Olynyk. Maybe that’s why they’re losing so much.

Knicks play better without KK. Today it was interesting until they started throwing the ball away and not defending the 3 in the last few minutes. Well, maybe they just don’t know defense.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 24, 2019, 07:16:19 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 24, 2019, 03:09:11 AM


* try to logically explain why a mirror reverses left and right but not top and bottom.  We all know this is true, but explaining it is surprisingly complicated.  I think I have a simple elegant explanation, but it's not one of the 2 or 3 scientific explanations competing out there.

Because our eyes are left/right not top/bottom.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 24, 2019, 09:12:08 PM
I like this team with Mudiay playing 35 minutes

Frank 6:50 and a -11
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 24, 2019, 09:15:56 PM
19, 5 and 3.5 over 7 games for EM

49-103, 13-32, 21-22 shooting
Title: Mudiay
Post by: Kam on March 24, 2019, 09:51:03 PM
Mudiay has done his thing this year.  Definitely good for his NBA career.  Not sure how good it was for Frank's career but Mudiay has shown up as an NBA player able to finish more often than not at the hoop.

What it takes to retain him?  That's dependent on a calculus of differential equations.  Who knows. 


Is he the answer at pg?  I don't know.  What do i know?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 24, 2019, 10:12:37 PM
Mudiay is Lance Stevenson light. He can’t start on a good team, but brings useful attributes to any bench.

Is he worth his cap hold? Is he worth his cap hold to the Knicks?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 24, 2019, 11:41:02 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 24, 2019, 09:12:08 PM
I like this team with Mudiay playing 35 minutes

As long as all the minutes come before the game's final eight or so....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 25, 2019, 09:21:19 AM
Not sure Dennis has closed games too well

Give Mudiay 2 .more scorers to work with.....

Would be a shame to see him come to full potential elsewhere.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 25, 2019, 11:58:36 AM
Lol, Dennis hasn't begun or middled most games very well.

Of course, everybody is playing in a cosmic slop.

Despite what some others say, I find this to be a very suspect environment for either individual assessment or growth.


••• Mudiay has certainly evolved into a pretty potent scorer through 3/4s. Nice. Still showing the same poor D and notably bad crunch-time decision-making when stuffs at the rack, strips in the lane, and bad pass turnovers become his norm. Would very much like to see him try to take the next step amidst something more resembling a team. Would still not be inclined to extend him any kind of long-term contract to do it.
Title: Re: Boston & NY
Post by: bankshot1 on March 25, 2019, 12:10:57 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on March 24, 2019, 03:11:09 PM
Hey Bank, I think your team misses Kelly Olynyk. Maybe that’s why they’re losing so much.



Carlos-Not sure KO is the answer to what ails the Celts. They have massively underperformed so far this year. And IMO the responsibility flows from Ainge to Brad to what is a very deep and talented team playing well below their talents. Times running out for them to get their shit together.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 25, 2019, 12:56:15 PM
Kyrie ain't no leader.
Kyrie like to do it himself.
Kyrie play bad D.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on March 25, 2019, 01:39:51 PM
another RIP, aging beats the only other option.....  https://twitter.com/NY_KnicksPR/status/1110231390526820354 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on March 25, 2019, 02:01:26 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 22, 2019, 03:32:21 PM
Then of course there is Gonzaga's Hachimura and his rising teammate Brandon Clarke

Give me Clarke over Rui.
Title: Re: Boston & NY
Post by: carlos123 on March 25, 2019, 02:11:09 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on March 25, 2019, 12:10:57 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on March 24, 2019, 03:11:09 PM
Hey Bank, I think your team misses Kelly Olynyk. Maybe that’s why they’re losing so much.



Carlos-Not sure KO is the answer to what ails the Celts. They have massively underperformed so far this year. And IMO the responsibility flows from Ainge to Brad to what is a very deep and talented team playing well below their talents. Times running out for them to get their shit together.

Well, I don’t know how Ainge and Brad can go from tops in the NBA to running an underperforming team which played much better as a team with the same coach before they brought in new talent, such as KI and Hayward. Maybe the new talent doesn’t fit with the system or the remaining players. Maybe they miss some of the talent they let go.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on March 25, 2019, 02:52:52 PM
NY has  a 14 % chance of landing a top free agent and a 14% chance off landing Zion.  in other words .  86% we are looking at 50 plus L's again. year 7 out of the playoffs coming up.

just when we really suck the NBA changes the lottery.  I call this Dolan's Karma.

PS.. 

How many years before Robinson or knox are legit NBA players?  4? 5?

OK then  add in 5 lottery picks and we will be OK in  2023.
Title: So you're saying
Post by: Kam on March 25, 2019, 03:05:21 PM
We can only go up from here.

The eternal Optimist.   The Glass is 1/14 full he says!
Title: Ntilikina
Post by: Kam on March 25, 2019, 03:12:41 PM
I am confident in Frank.  He seems like with his skills and youth and professionalism he will carve out a home in the NBA.  Not unlike Trevor Ariza.

But i'm confident also in calling it what it is   a bust.   A bad decision that set the franchise back.


Just need to admit it.  Now decide if we keep Frank or give him a change of scenery.  He deserves a clean slate and he won't get it here as a "Phil" guy.
Title: Re: Boston & NY
Post by: bankshot1 on March 25, 2019, 04:18:47 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on March 25, 2019, 02:11:09 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on March 25, 2019, 12:10:57 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on March 24, 2019, 03:11:09 PM
Hey Bank, I think your team misses Kelly Olynyk. Maybe that’s why they’re losing so much.



Carlos-Not sure KO is the answer to what ails the Celts. They have massively underperformed so far this year. And IMO the responsibility flows from Ainge to Brad to what is a very deep and talented team playing well below their talents. Times running out for them to get their shit together.

Well, I don’t know how Ainge and Brad can go from tops in the NBA to running an underperforming team which played much better as a team with the same coach before they brought in new talent, such as KI and Hayward. Maybe the new talent doesn’t fit with the system or the remaining players. Maybe they miss some of the talent they let go.

I think there were too many factors to lay the blame disproportionately on any one GM, coach, super-star or role player.  And I would not materially rethink Ainge or Brad's strengths. IMO they're both very good at what they do. short answer I think ultimately the Celts are too deep (Ainge's fault?) for their own good, and Brad struggled with trying to keep eveyone happy, and he couldn't. IMO in general they played their best ball when Baynes, one of their least gifted players, and a guy who does not need the ball, was on the court.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 25, 2019, 04:20:46 PM
If we’re talking about not taking Donavan Mitchell instead, of course you’re right. His career has been much more fruitful than Frank’s so far.

Moving Frank just to move on from Frank is plain stupid. If moving on from Frank is part of the price of acquiring someone specific who is substantially better, then it would make sense to move on from Frank. Otherwise let him work for another summer and see what you have.
Title: JIMMER!!!
Post by: thebizneverloses on March 26, 2019, 02:05:04 AM
1 for 10 in 14 minutes. 41% usage!! I caught a few minutes and he dribbled and dribbled and dribbled and missed and missed and didn't make a single NBA play. I hope he didn't throw away his chopsticks.
Title: Nurkic
Post by: Kam on March 26, 2019, 02:06:34 AM
Sad.   Hope he can play again ... injuries suck.  And for a big man i imagine the recovery is even harder.
Title: Blazers
Post by: Kam on March 26, 2019, 02:10:02 AM
Are 15 points better with Nurkic.  10 pts offensively and 5 points defensively.

They're 8 games under .500 without him.

We are going to see a lot of Enes Kanter in the playoffs.

In the first round.  Where they should be an underdog now even at home against SAS or OKC.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 26, 2019, 03:08:34 AM
Blazers are missing Ed Davis right now. Hopefully Collins can step up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 26, 2019, 03:59:45 AM
Some food for thought (that isn’t even all that depressing)

http://theknickswall.com/most-effective-lineups-reveal-about-knicks/ (http://theknickswall.com/most-effective-lineups-reveal-about-knicks/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 26, 2019, 05:11:21 AM
Jimmer & Booker combined for 65 Points!

Didn't see the game, but JimJam has bad habits from years in China.
Also, the NBA 3-point line is more than a foot deeper form around the arc than China/int'l ball.  So that makes a difference and takes a little getting used to.  Also, PHX is playing a lot of yute and mix-and-match fellers, including Jimmer.

Believe it or not, but I'm pulling for Jimmer.  He's a Shanghai guy.
And he's got genuine shooting talent.  And not too many 30 years olds gte another op.

Montiejunas got picked up by someone the other day from China.  Always seems like a guy who could/should have an NBA role.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 26, 2019, 05:27:40 AM
Was watching the BKY-POR game.
Tangelo pulled a Muddy.
Played a strong game until crunch time when he made lots of mistakes.

End of regulation, Nets up 1 with the ball at 27 secs left.
With 7 on the shot clock, Russ starts making his move, his fancy dribbling gtes away form him and Seth Curry steals the ball.  Two Nets get back and one fouls Scurry for no reason.  But an 85% FT shooter misses the first, makes the 2nd.  Nets heave misses.  OT.

That was an egregious mistake by Tangelo.  But there were more.  around 2:30 left when POR was making a comeback, tangelo again lost his fancy dribble, poked away by Nurk.  Recovers, passes off and immediately demands the ball back.  Loses his handle again and recovers near midcourt where he heaves a 40' to beat the shot clock.  Tangelo made other messes in the OT's as well.

Funny, watching the game I was thinking a big difference is how confident T'angelo appeared.  But he's too confident and goes in for too much razzle when a simple play is needed.  Loves to get fancy.  Which works for him some, but also leads to many mistakes.

The Nurk injury.  I needed to leave, but kept watching the OT's.  Nurk was outworking folks on the glass, tipping a lot of balls.  But the smaller Nets were scrappy and Nurk hit the floor a few times late in the game.  I thought he got injured a few minutes earlier when he got floored.
 
Blazers weren't going far in the playoffs anyway.  But injuries really suck.
Guess we'll see how Kanter does.  Big Op for him, playing for a new contract in the playoffs.  Also, an op for Zach and Myers Leonard to step up.  With McCollum out, Stotts rode Roddy Hood for 43 minutes, which surprised me.

When Nurk went down, he had been fouled, so Nets got to select any active player to shoot his FT's.  They picked little-used rook Anfernee Simons who calmly dropped both in.  in Double OT.  Nice moment.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 26, 2019, 09:41:55 AM
Good to see Lavert back for BK.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on March 26, 2019, 09:48:12 AM
Yep.  Good player and apparently a good teammate. 
Title: Standings
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 26, 2019, 09:52:44 AM
Utah and LAC tied with 8 left - looking for 5 slot to avoid Rockets

Spurs - Thunder - same thing (dang - are Thunder really going to be an 8?) - to avoid (likely) Warriors.


And I believe last 8 games for Boston are ultra important.  Not sure they win vs Indy without home court.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 26, 2019, 02:29:55 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 26, 2019, 03:59:45 AM
Some food for thought (that isn’t even all that depressing)

http://theknickswall.com/most-effective-lineups-reveal-about-knicks/ (http://theknickswall.com/most-effective-lineups-reveal-about-knicks/)


Good read.  For those who skipped it -- the Knicks 2nd best lineup:

Frank, Trier, Dot, Knox, Mitch

All-rookie/sophmores

No vets need apply
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 26, 2019, 02:32:12 PM
All keepers with contracts next year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on March 26, 2019, 05:42:37 PM
  Zion, Morant, Barrett  if we get 4 or above try to move the pick.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 26, 2019, 06:24:06 PM
Quote from: Nagel on March 26, 2019, 05:42:37 PM
  Zion, Morant, Barrett  if we get 4 or above try to move the pick.

I would stay at 4.   There are some decent options there.
Title: Unassisted Dunks
Post by: Kam on March 26, 2019, 06:39:06 PM
Who leads the Knicks in Unassisted Dunks

1. DeAndre  167 (31 unassisted) 5th overall in total dunks
2. Mitchell     99 (29 unassisted) 21st overall in total dunks
3. Noah V.     39 (19 unassisted) 80th overall in total dunks

The Knicks are the worst assisting team in the league.


If we keep two of these three guys, and add a premier distributor who can assist some more dunks.. with dunks being made at a 90% clip with occasional and1s the Dunk shot attempt is worth almost as much as the three point shot attempt when you talk expected points. And might be the simplest way to improve 6-8 points a game offensively without changing the offense at all.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 26, 2019, 07:14:45 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 26, 2019, 02:32:12 PM
All keepers with contracts next year.

I will say YES - they will all be here next year

Believe it or not the guy with the best chance to not be is Dotson - off his value and our depth.  But yeah - all 5 could be there for the opener.
Title: Fac
Post by: carlos123 on March 26, 2019, 09:49:07 PM
Hey Fac, nice avatar you got

(http://www.the-immoral-minority.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/putin-puppet.jpg)
Welcome to the "Deep State"🥴
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 27, 2019, 02:34:34 AM
To go political, I don't get any of this Trump was exonerated and the press should be ashamed.  Trump and close associates/family members will not be charged with crimes.  That's all.  This was an investigation.  To determine if laws were broken and indictments should be issued.  Brought about by and uncovering many shady activities, including:
Flynn meeting with Russians and lying about it;
Russian hacking of Dem emails and Trump support for such;
Russian interference in the US election and Trump Jr supporting such;
Trump lying about his Moscow hotel deal;
Manafort's sleazy connections to various Russian gov't officials;
Stone's involvement with wikileaks;
Trump's continued praise for czar Putin;
various Trump activities that could be construed as obstruction of the investigation;
Cohen lying about everything;
and side issues such as:
illegal campaign contributions to silence a porn star or two;
Trump foundation illegalities;
Trump possible fraud in bank loans, etc

To me the most striking elements are that both the National Enquirer and Putin's Russia knew that Trump was lying and covering up compromising info (porn star hush money/sex & the Moscow hotel deal), meaning that both had leverage over Trump.

But just because Mueller determined that Trump and inner circle shouldn't be criminally indicted doesn't mean that nothing wrong or even illegal didn't occur, that there wasn't corrupt and questionable dealings with Russia, or that there aren't other illegal activities (bank/tax fraud) Trump might be guilty of.

That is, there was plenty of cause for an investigation, it found a lot of putrid stuff and a few Trump associates are going to jail, And it all seems to have been handled professionally.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 27, 2019, 09:46:50 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 27, 2019, 02:34:34 AM




But just because Mueller determined that Trump and inner circle shouldn't be criminally indicted doesn't mean that nothing wrong or even illegal didn't occur, that there wasn't corrupt and questionable dealings with Russia, or that there aren't other illegal activities (bank/tax fraud) Trump might be guilty of.



Uh......... Ok.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 27, 2019, 10:06:05 AM
https://twitter.com/cavs/status/1110893728976302080?s=20












 (https://twitter.com/cavs/status/1110893728976302080?s=20)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 27, 2019, 12:18:00 PM
Saw Hornytoads v Spurs.
Pretty entertaining game.
Kemba played his ass off.  38 / 9/ 11 assists.
11 points in OT.

Dwayne Bacon had a career high 24, besting his previous high of 20 in the prior game.  Was really active on both ends.  One play late he guarded 4 different guys.  With some nice switches.  He's a little raw and jittery, but had a strong game on both ends.  Listed as an SG.  But at 6'7" 220, he looked like a combo F to me.  Averaging 17 points in his 6 starts.  Interesting guy to watch as he settles down some.

Bridges had 10 1Q pts then didn't sore again.  But had a big block late, and some good defensive energy.

Willy was up and down.  Scored some, missed half his FT's, boarded allright, but had some bad hands on interior passes.  Good effort on D but a little slow on reaction time.  Good bench cheering.

CHA pulled out a zone defense that bothered the perimeter-challenged Spurs.  They also whipped out some full-court press which you rarely see anymore.  Also gave PG/ballhandling-challenged SA trouble.
I like when a coach mixes things up, and with a lot of young bodies, why not go all out on D.

Spurs probably have the worst hair in the League.  Lonnie Walker looks like a Buckwheat descendant.  Derrick White looks interplanetary.
Bertans should boycott the barber who f*cked up his head, etc.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 27, 2019, 01:12:55 PM
Missed the Bucks game, then?

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 27, 2019, 03:31:06 PM
Yup.  Was disappointed that wasn't on, especially since the Rockets are essentially China's team.

I don't know what's up here,  but the last few weeks  most of the televised games are mediocre to poor teams.  And the marquee matchups generally aren't on. They also have a bad habit this season of showing game replays during one of the usual/former live game slot.  Sometimes the replays are a week or two old.  Sometimes I've even seen the replay before.

All I can guess is that the NBA has started charging China a lot more than before when they were building the brand and giving the games away for little.  And China's response has been to pick up less pricey fare and to replay games more, including in place of live games.

Just speculation, but all I can come up with.
So I've been routinely missing big games.

I wanted to see how the Bucks irritated Harden.  Bledsoe's play.  And how the role players are stepping up for the Bucks amidst a rash of injuries.  Seems I was right that Frazier is just insurance and barely plays.  He's feisty, but overdoes it and becomes foul prone.

Edit: to bolster my theory, after every single game replay (every evening at 10:PM), as soon as the game finishes they switch tot he same 2+ year old NBA filler material.  It used to be every basket Kobe scored getting when he got 62 v. Dallas (outscoring the Mavs through 3Q's by 1).  For the past 3 months, they've switched it to Jason White Chocolate highlights, for some reason.  After that they go to a David Lee feature where he talks about how great his new team, the Celtics, are.  And there Mr. Lee is hanging with Jared Sullinger and Greg Monroe and Evan Turner and whoever else is long gone from the Celts.  Scurry talks about what a great teammate David Lee was in GS and how they're glad they got him a championship.  And we see Bogut spraying champagne on DLee during the celebrations.

There's some other NBA material from 2 years ago as well.  One is about Melo discussing his Summer workouts and rehabbing his knee and getting ready to come back for a big season with NY. 

My impression is they just use and re-use this old crap because they've already bought the rights to it.
CHina TV used to get new NBA filler material regularly.
But this season, it's ridiculous how they repeat endlessly old material.
It's like they just don't care or even pretend to make an effort.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 27, 2019, 03:33:32 PM
Lopez playing excellent ball - wasnt really a part of your assessment.

Wilson did some good things - can lose the bun though.  Connaughton simply a quite valuable player.  Does a little of everything.

If Celts get them to six they did well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 27, 2019, 03:57:44 PM
Connaughton is a savvy player.  Hustles.
But he also/still has games where he disappears.
I like him, but wouldn't want to have to trust him too much in the playoffs.

Same with DJ WIl who made nice progress this year after looking lost last year.  Came into his body, gained confidence.  Interesting athletic guy.  Developing.

Divincenzo out for the rest of the year and playoffs.
Not that he was going to get minutes really.
But not a great 1st season for him.

Lopez has played real well.
But his puny $4M contract or whatever seemed like a bargain no matter what.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 28, 2019, 08:39:09 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 27, 2019, 03:31:06 PM
Yup.  Was disappointed that wasn't on, especially since the Rockets are essentially China's team.

You ever checked out this for streams?

https://www.reddit.com/r/nbastreams

I've been working in Berlin recently and find it a good way to still watch games.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 28, 2019, 12:41:08 PM
Looks confusing.
Maybe I need to sign up first(?)

I have a SLingbox and that used to do me fairly well.
But, the PRC has arranged things so that the intranet within China is fast, but connecting to overseas sites is slow.  So sometimes I can watch games on the Slingbox and other times it's blurvision or choppy.  The recent problem is something wrong with the Slingbox so I can't change channels.  It's set to MSG/Knick games for now.  But means I can't go to NBATv or Nets games, or any weekend national televised games.  Been 3 weeks of one channel US cable Tv for me.

One friend says he watches game son Youtube a few hours after they're over.  But I haven't found such.

Just saw GS @ Memf, which was okay, until Griz meekly rolled over in the 4Q.  Wasn't much of a lineup of games, but the marquee matchup was IND-OKC, which I didn't get to see.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on March 28, 2019, 04:06:18 PM
I find League Pass to be well worth the money. I happily sign up every year.
Title: My ballot
Post by: thebizneverloses on March 28, 2019, 04:19:06 PM
MVP
1. Giannis
2. Harden
3. PG13
4. Jokic
5. sCurry

MIP
1. Siakam
2. D'Angelo
3. Fox

DPOY
1. Gobert
2. PG13
3. Giannis

6MOY
1. Sweet Lou
2. Sabonis
3. Trez

COY
1. Doc
2. Nate
3. Bud

ROY
1. Doncic
2. Trae
3. MB3

EOY
Masai

First Team All-NBA
G Curry
G Harden
F Giannis
F PG13
C Jokic

Second Team
G Lillard
G Rusty
F Durant
F Kawhi
C Embiid

Third Team
G Kemba
G Beal
F Lebron (!!)
F Blake
C Gobert

First Team All Rookie
Trae
Sexton
Doncic
MB3
Ayton

Second Team All Rookie
Mitch
JJJ
Shamet
Huerter
Shai
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on March 28, 2019, 06:16:25 PM
garland at 4.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 28, 2019, 06:31:11 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 28, 2019, 12:41:08 PM
Looks confusing.
Maybe I need to sign up forst(?)

No. Take another look. Very simple. Just pan down the page a bit. If it's around the time of an NBA game, you'll see (various) links to the game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 28, 2019, 11:57:46 PM
livestreams.  Got it.

Hope to catch a replay of the latest slaughter.
Mitch with almost a 20/20 game in 31 mins.
Impressive.

Mud & Jr. Smith combined for 45 minutes and 2 assists!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on March 29, 2019, 12:32:24 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 28, 2019, 11:57:46 PM

Mud & Jr. Smith combined for 45 minutes and 2 assists!

Fizzy’s “SYSTEM” calls for as few assists as possible. It’s a “STRATEGY”.

To what end? Fizzy is a little fuzzy about that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 29, 2019, 12:45:56 AM
Mavs swingman Tim Hardaway Jr. will probably undergo surgery to insert a rod in his leg to repair the stress reaction that ended his season, Mark Cuban said. Hardaway would be recovered well in advance of training camp

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 29, 2019, 08:10:01 AM
Yep

Huge year for THJ in '19-'20.

I will not be watching.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 29, 2019, 08:39:53 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on March 29, 2019, 12:32:24 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 28, 2019, 11:57:46 PM

Mud & Jr. Smith combined for 45 minutes and 2 assists!

Fizzy’s “SYSTEM” calls for as few assists as possible. It’s a “STRATEGY”.

To what end? Fizzy is a little fuzzy about that.

It's absolutely essential to the FIZ "development" program that young players attempt as many bad shots outside of a team ball framework as possible.

Naturally that will reduce assist #'s for point guards. It's the program. You got a problem with it?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 29, 2019, 09:07:03 AM
Do the Knicks have their pg situation solved?

Nope.

Keep an eye on Cassius Winston tonight.
Title: FIZZY ‘S PROGRAM
Post by: carlos123 on March 29, 2019, 11:05:43 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on March 29, 2019, 08:39:53 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on March 29, 2019, 12:32:24 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 28, 2019, 11:57:46 PM

Mud & Jr. Smith combined for 45 minutes and 2 assists!

Fizzy’s “SYSTEM” calls for as few assists as possible. It’s a “STRATEGY”.

To what end? Fizzy is a little fuzzy about that.

It's absolutely essential to the FIZ "development" program that young players attempt as many bad shots outside of a team ball framework as possible.

Naturally that will reduce assist #'s for point guards. It's the program. You got a problem with it?

Hmmmmm... no. Now that u splained the program I understand. Not so fuzzy after all.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 29, 2019, 12:25:41 PM
Caught HOU-DEN.
DEN played poorly after the 1Q.
Got killed 40-19 in 2Q.

Jokic had a poor game.  Couldn't get shots to drop, couldn't post effectively on harden, fumbled away rebounds, got beat downcourt by Capela a few times.

DEN bench was mostly a no-show.
Trey Lyles looked terrible.
3 TO's in 12 mins.  0-3 on Trey treys.
I recall someone here liking him.  Always looked bummish to me.
Just 23, will probably be a Knick reclamation project next year ...

DEN looked like they had no game plan for Harden.  Let him get his shots and left 3 point shooters open everywhere.  CP3 was largely a non-factor and still a blow out.

Nugs seem like one of those momentum teams who play well and with high energy when things are going well.   I've seen them look great and fluid with a dynamite bench, and also seen them slog through a loss or two. 

I assume OKC desperately wants the 7th seed and a crack at untested DEN, and to avoid GSW. OKC had D.  DEN has depth.  Would be a good matchup.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 29, 2019, 06:56:57 PM
Yep

Lyles

Nice talent

18-8-3-1-1 per 36 minutes
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 29, 2019, 08:21:56 PM
https://twitter.com/NoelChambers7/status/1111747663714795520 (https://twitter.com/NoelChambers7/status/1111747663714795520)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on March 30, 2019, 02:46:37 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 29, 2019, 08:21:56 PM
https://twitter.com/NoelChambers7/status/1111747663714795520 (https://twitter.com/NoelChambers7/status/1111747663714795520)

For the thousandth time, don't play Frank at the 1. Play him off the ball.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 30, 2019, 04:43:32 PM
The better Franc is as at playing Point, the more value he has, both to NYK or other teams.  Even if later he becomes mostly a combo G.  Same for Mud, who at least has started looking like he has some decent SG potential. 

We're a terrible team and can afford time to develop Franc's Point abilities.  Unfortunately, Franc right now is our 3rd PG and 3rd SG.  Basically he's our 5th G.  Yeah, Dot can play some 3.  But Kadeem is chasing after a roster spot/minutes as well.

Kind of a lost season for Franc.  And I still think his defense is overrated.  Knix need to think about moving Franc while he still has some value.  Looks like Sell Low now, but another season like this and it will definitely be Sell Low(er).  I like Franc, but Knix need to think how and if he fits.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 30, 2019, 05:41:35 PM
I think you are mistakenly assuming the Knicks do not wish to make a playoff run next year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on March 30, 2019, 06:51:56 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 30, 2019, 04:43:32 PM
The better Franc is as at playing Point, the more value he has, both to NYK or other teams.  Even if later he becomes mostly a combo G.  Same for Mud, who at least has started looking like he has some decent SG potential. 

We're a terrible team and can afford time to develop Franc's Point abilities.  Unfortunately, Franc right now is our 3rd PG and 3rd SG.  Basically he's our 5th G.  Yeah, Dot can play some 3.  But Kadeem is chasing after a roster spot/minutes as well.

Kind of a lost season for Franc.  And I still think his defense is overrated.  Knix need to think about moving Franc while he still has some value.  Looks like Sell Low now, but another season like this and it will definitely be Sell Low(er).  I like Franc, but Knix need to think how and if he fits.

All youngsters thrash around for a bit while in college and even afterward.  But for the ones who get it and turn that corner - that's when the adventure starts.  All of our guards are still essentially youngsters anticipating turning that corner.  We won't keep them all. We also know a lot about where that corner is when it comes to NBA PG development - approx. 4 years from their starting time.

The FO drafted nothing but kids. That can't be an accident or a brainfart.   And I'm not buying any argument asserting that the FO couldn't have known how raw these kids would be.  I have to believe that they knew what they were doing and they will stick with the majority of them.

The mystery to me is what kind of conversation Fizdale had with the FO.  I think its safe to speculate that Fizdale was told with no uncertainty that the Knicks WILL lose more games than any other team in the NBA. The more interesting question given how ugly the season has been is whether Fizdale intentionally held back Frank, Dotson, and the gamers or whether Fizdale just floated downstream because he could knowing that the kids would be gone at seasons end and basketball would start in the Fall of 2019.

The "Keep what you kill" mentality makes more sense with hungry vets looking to have a career rather than physically and mentally undeveloped kids.  Presumably Fizdale is *that* smart.

So I think your argument should be more general to say that any of our guys who either have talent or showed promise this year *could* be traded and *should be* [given the right deal] because next year they might regress.  The argument applies to many more than just Frank.

I don't know that there's any pecking order of PG candidates worth hanging a hat on yet.  And as I said I'm not sure the team was allowed to play NBA winning ball so calling the team 'terrible' is misleading, IMO.  But the toxic NY and ESPN media love to F with Knicks fans by periodically tar and feathering one player or another.  Frank is this year's Pinata.

I am an unabashed Frank fan.  Trade the rest of them all but keep Frank would be my advice. Its likely not a majority opinion.

Pragmatically, if he is being teased as trade bait, the Knicks FO needs to get value back - talent for talent and not talent for a filler.  IMO, Frank is likely got more talent and NY charisma than whoever is being offered.  And I will qualify that by saying if he's part of a package to secure AD or a top-notch talent I have no objections to trading him.

But if he's jettisoned for a bag of chips, many of our worst fears about this FO become reality.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 30, 2019, 08:34:31 PM
Didn't we just have a conversation about KEEPING all of them?
Title: bag of chips
Post by: carlos123 on March 30, 2019, 09:21:19 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on March 30, 2019, 06:51:56 PM

But if he's jettisoned for a bag of chips, many of our worst fears about this FO become reality.

Ok, I proposed a bag of beans the other day, but no problem with a bag of chips either.
(https://previews.123rf.com/images/jakkapan/jakkapan1403/jakkapan140300371/26565823-potato-chips-in-bag-open-on-white-background-barbecue-bbq.jpg)

FO happy thinking about the chips.
(https://mondrian.mashable.com/uploads%252Fstory%252Fthumbnail%252F23903%252FScreen_Shot_2016-10-10_at_3.53.24_PM.png%252F950x534.png?signature=pT4SixGKsHK6pUqi5AA_5FwZiEQ=&source=https%3A%2F%2Fblueprint-api-production.s3.amazonaws.com)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 30, 2019, 10:12:39 PM
Pretty sure we’re getting another year of Robinson and Knox.

Among the guards, Ntilikina, Dotson, Trier, and Allen are the ones I hope come back. I wouldn’t mind a Smith or a Mudiay, but we don’t need both.

I’d like to see Vonleh and Kornet back. I’m skeptical that free agency lands us any of the biggest fish. We shall see, but I’m not holding my breath.
Title: MITCH!
Post by: carlos123 on March 30, 2019, 10:50:36 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 30, 2019, 10:12:39 PM
Pretty sure we’re getting another year of Robinson and Knox.

Among the guards, Ntilikina, Dotson, Trier, and Allen are the ones I hope come back. I wouldn’t mind a Smith or a Mudiay, but we don’t need both.

I’d like to see Vonleh and Kornet back. I’m skeptical that free agency lands us any of the biggest fish. We shall see, but I’m not holding my breath.

Hope we get much more than 1 year of Robinson.

PS. Why did Jordan get a DNP?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on March 30, 2019, 11:03:18 PM
carlos,

tyrone is up.  so spring is officially here.

Jim Dolan has now gone to sleep.

it's a cycle .
Title: Tyrone and Porzingis
Post by: carlos123 on March 30, 2019, 11:12:04 PM
Tyrone: I love Tyrone.

Porzingis: hey Kam, wassup with KP? Did he do it or didn’t he?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 31, 2019, 02:10:23 AM
Terrible is just a shorthand description.
The Knix had few legit starters.  Didn't have consistent players.  Relied on yute and reclamations.  Which was fine for a development year with the goal of getting a high draft pick.
But you don't win or get to the playoffs with a team like that.  I picked 22 W's before the start, and that was thinking we'd have KZ back the last month or two. Tim for the full year.  And expecting the Knix to foolishly wait too long before embracing tanking.

Fizz gave everyone a chance to play, and start and do what they could do.  Most/many responded.  At least in stretches or in some facets.  Franc got lost in the shuffle and then injured.  Yeah, he's still young, but he was also playing pro ball in Euroland.  Has a lot to work on this Summer to improve his O.

A problem with picking very young guys like Franc and Knox is that it might take them 3 or 4 years until they are ready to develop into solid NBA players, at which point you have to re-sign them before they've proven out.

There are a number of guys I'd likei to see back next year and stick around longer.  But I have only Knox and Mitch as long-term holds.  Both young, showing promise and locked up for a few more years.  Everyone else subject to whatever goes on in FA and the draft and whatever deals might materialize.  Franc as 3rd PG and 5th G is sub-optimal.  So we'll see how that gets resolved.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 31, 2019, 02:32:57 AM
KZ allegations are awfully odd.
This supposedly happened a few hours after the game in which he tore his knee up?  Wouldn't he be in pain?  Wouldn't someone be with him just to make sure he gets home okay.  Wouldn't it be somewhat easy to fend off a guy with one leg?
Stranger things have happened, but maybe she needs to change the date?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 31, 2019, 08:53:19 AM
On its face, seems implausible. Having had serious knee injuries and surgeries can't really imagine.
BUT.
Filled with pain and rage and a good mix of meds and alcohol — think I read he did shots with brother and trainer that night — and if he's not a nice guy or worse (I have no idea),  I guess who really knows.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 31, 2019, 09:53:50 AM
I'm fortunate never to have had a serious knee injury.
OF course, by now I've adapted my game so I rarely drive anymore and don't try to make overly athletic plays.  I remember when I was young(er) and a big oldhead would show up, and invariably they'd have some sort of knee brace on.

I had a weird incident 2 months ago, where I overdid it the week before Chinese New Year, knowing I'd have two weeks off.  (I played 4 hours Tues night and then both TH and FRI for two each).  Woke up Saturday around 3:AM and my knee hurt as though sleeping on my side had pushed it out of joint/alignment somehow.  So I got up, limped out into the garden, and fed all the outdoor cats (5).  Was able to go up and down a ladder-- most are roof cats above the back and side walls.  But was limpy with discomfort.  Came back in and the knee felt like it'd pop with a few gentle swings.  Being tired I thought it'd pop back into place, like I do with my elbow now and then when carrying groceries and it gets awkwardly out of joint/painful feeling.  And I often pop the knee with a few gentle sitting leg bends.

This time, it got ready to pop, then did some bizarre triple pop.  Felt like first behind the knee, then the cap, and then deep in the middle, with a weird feeling of pseudo-pain between pops.  Afterwards, the alignment felt better/right but then my knee felt a bit unstable.  And the next few days when I'd bend it I'd hear gravelly crunching inside.  And I thought I might be farked.  But after two weeks, I played my usual Tuesday night game, moving  a bit carefully.  No problem.  And after a week or two of playing, it seemed fairly stable and almost normal. 

I've kind of forgotten about it now.  Not sure what I did, but at least one of those pops led to some loose material floating about internally.  Cartilage?  Meniscus tear?  It turned out to be minor enough and short-term that I didn't even ask my doctor friends what might have happened in my knee.  Well, they are brain surgeons anyway, but pretty sharp fellas.  Have to say I was a bit worried about the prospect of having to retire form hoops.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 31, 2019, 11:08:05 AM
Speaking of, Wade still looks pretty good.  And nice the Garden treated him well.  Mighty fine career  I was wondering why he wouldn't go another year or two, but didn't realize that he's 37.  Also, he's somewhat in the Melo mold, whereby he can still play some but isn't that much of an asset since his D is lacking and he can't reliably hit 3's.  Though he still is a pretty solid playmaker, which Melo can't claim.  But not clear an old Wade would help a playoff bench much.

Too bad he wasted a year in CHI.  Be better if he had joined DET or WAS (like old Pierce did) or OKC or MIL before they fixed their bench.  That hometown reunion was a bust.  Would have preferred him trying to push a playoff team with a weak bench.  This MIA team is an oddity.  I hope they make the playoffs.  I like Josh Rich a lot.  And Dragic is nice but has had trouble staying healthy.  Sort of a throwback team that plays D and scraps but can't score much.

So with Ginobili up in the rafters, Wade with a handful of games left (and maybe a 1st round), and Vince in his 40's, that generation of SG's is done.  That's a mighty fine trio.  While Kobe and Ray Allen tie in with that generation.   

I've said before that Eric Gordon and Brandon Roy (34 now) were supposed to be the next generation of elite SG's but both succumbed to injuries.  Nice that Gordon has managed a string 2nd (3rd?) act with HOU.

Seemed like there was a 5 or 6 year gap where SG was the weakest position.  With DeRozan trying to break into the elite.  Until the emergence of Harden and Klay and to a lesser extent Beal, Butler.
And the new generation of Donovan Mitch and Devin Book coming on.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on March 31, 2019, 12:47:49 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 31, 2019, 02:10:23 AM

Fizz gave everyone a chance to play, and start and do what they could do.  Most/many responded.  At least in stretches or in some facets.  Franc got lost in the shuffle and then injured.  Yeah, he's still young, but he was also playing pro ball in Euroland.  Has a lot to work on this Summer to improve his O.

For me the litmus test will be how he plays with a more mature lineup that is both trying to win and complementing each other's strengths. I thought there were stretches where is 'O' was just fine but he lost confidence.

Secondly, I'm not sure the complaints about his 'O' continue if he's contributing to a winning Knicks team.


Quote from: bodiddley on March 31, 2019, 02:10:23 AM

A problem with picking very young guys like Franc and Knox is that it might take them 3 or 4 years until they are ready to develop into solid NBA players, at which point you have to re-sign them before they've proven out.
This is more to the point. I would even say "will" rather than "might". However, if we stock the cupboard with young kids who are talented enough to take a chance on AND have the cap space we have  to bulk up the starting lineup, then resigning these guys when they are entering their prime is fine - MSG can go over the cap to resign guys they have the rights to.  Not necessarily a bad position to be in and pretty much the pattern established by SA and GS.
[/quote]


Quote from: bodiddley on March 31, 2019, 02:10:23 AM

There are a number of guys I'd like to see back next year and stick around longer.  But I have only Knox and Mitch as long-term holds.  Both young, showing promise and locked up for a few more years.  Everyone else subject to whatever goes on in FA and the draft and whatever deals might materialize.  Franc as 3rd PG and 5th G is sub-optimal.  So we'll see how that gets resolved.

Assuming a great trade isn't the reason anyone gets traded my long-term keepers would be Frankie, Dotson, Vonleh, and Mitchell.

Of the rest Trier for some reason simply doesn't look like a team ball player to me.  This year, largely playing horse, a number of players scored points but man watching them play was painful.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 31, 2019, 07:56:40 PM
Seeing Trier adjust defensively and develop a left hand as the season progressed, makes me think you can coach him up, and he can develop into a microwave easily. If the staff is capable of coaching point guards, he should be able to grow into that as well.

I’d add Knox and Trier to the keeper crew of Frank, Dot, Noah, and Mitch.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on March 31, 2019, 08:06:17 PM
How's that RJ as a top 5 pick looking?

Quote
35% FG with 70 assists and 96 turnovers

hmmm
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 31, 2019, 08:28:55 PM
Is Cassius Winston going to be in the draft?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 01, 2019, 04:57:56 AM
Looks like an odd upset day in the NBofA.
OKC lost at Home to DAL.
Spurs lost to Kings in SA (usually SAC blows 4Q leads).
Nugs lost at Home to Wiz.
Bucks lost in ATL.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 01, 2019, 05:19:28 AM
For MIL, Lopez was the only starter who started.
Tim "Down Goes" Frazier played all 53 mins: 20 / 15/ 7 (also 5 turns).
Not bad for a late pick up.  The guy has talent and is feisty.
I've always felt the right team/coach/environment could get a good deal out of him.
Somebody calling himself Bonzie Colson had 15 & 16 on pretty bad shooting.  Started.  41 mins.
Good game to let the bench flex their mucles and get playoff ready.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 01, 2019, 05:31:33 AM
OKC's bench has cratered,
In 20 post-AS games, Shroeder has shot 37% FG and 28 on 3's.
Versus 43% and 36 % the 1st half, when he was a 1-on-1 dynamo.
Never liked his game much, but he's picked a bad time to go all slumpy.  March: 39% and 30%
For the season: 39% and 31% at Home; Road 44% & 36%
Wins: 45% & 38%; Losses: 36% & 29%
Title: We Better Hope KP Is A Good Man, A Properly Behaved Man
Post by: lesterluv on April 01, 2019, 07:21:25 AM
cause if not, we may end up having to give back some of those lovely first rounders

A day after news broke that Kristaps Porzingis was being investigated by the New York Police Department over a rape allegation, the Mavericks are now disputing what they were and were not told as they negotiated a blockbuster trade for the star.

ESPN’s Adrian Wojnarowski initially reported Saturday that the New York Knicks informed the Mavericks of the rape allegation, and that the NBA league office was also aware of the situation.

The Dallas Morning News reports that the Mavericks disputed this, saying they were only told of an extortion attempt against the forward during a conference call with league officials to finalize the trade:

"The word that was used was 'extortion,'" one of the sources told The Dallas Morning News on Sunday.

"The word 'rape' was never used, only 'extortion,'" the second source told The News.


https://sports.yahoo.com/kristaps-porzingis-rape-allegations-dallas-mavericks-new-york-knicks-231817050.html (https://sports.yahoo.com/kristaps-porzingis-rape-allegations-dallas-mavericks-new-york-knicks-231817050.html)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on April 01, 2019, 12:44:28 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 29, 2019, 09:07:03 AM
Do the Knicks have their pg situation solved?

Nope.

Keep an eye on Cassius Winston tonight.

Good call, and you're probably thinking he might be another Monte Morris, but I think Winston is too small to have the impact Morris had.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 01, 2019, 01:02:03 PM
The woman alleges there is a doc KZ signed agreeing to pay $68K (for her brother's college tuition).  News orgs have seen it, and the question seems to be if it is indeed KZ's sig. 
Otherwise, wouldn't DAL ask what the extortion was related to?
Getting odd. 

Chinese TV provided the LAL-NOPe game, the only matchup not involving a playoff team.  Pretty useless.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 01, 2019, 01:36:46 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on March 30, 2019, 02:46:37 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 29, 2019, 08:21:56 PM
https://twitter.com/NoelChambers7/status/1111747663714795520 (https://twitter.com/NoelChambers7/status/1111747663714795520)

For the thousandth time, don't play Frank at the 1. Play him off the ball.

To what end? 

He isn't a starting PG that doesn't make him a starter anywhere else. If he can't play his position in the NBA and start for the worst team in the league... why are we holding onto him?  Sentiment?  He needs reps at PG if he is to develop.

He was drafted to play PG

He will sink or swim here or elsewhere as such.  If his true value is "utility guy off the bench you play for defensive purposes"  we had one of those already in Lance Thomas.
Title: Re: Tyrone and Porzingis
Post by: Kam on April 01, 2019, 01:44:35 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on March 30, 2019, 11:12:04 PM
Tyrone: I love Tyrone.

Porzingis: hey Kam, wassup with KP? Did he do it or didn’t he?

He fucks up his knee when Giannis undercuts him and then hours later he is having sex? Maybe i'm just old now but i can't have sex unless all my chakras are aligned, i've stretched for twenty minutes, and my girlfriend has helped me roll on my compression socks.  But a young latvian sans his knee can still be hor-knee enough to fornicate.... i would've paid her the 68k if i was him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on April 01, 2019, 02:34:57 PM
Yes, it's an odd, odd business and thankfully KP is in Dallas for it.
Which may be just the right place. For tips on how to handle the situation. If it isn't true. Didn't Dirk have some kind of bizarre relationship with a woman who blackmailed him and the FBI had to intervene ?
Title: Nassir Little
Post by: Kam on April 01, 2019, 03:15:24 PM
hires an agent and enters the draft.

He was ranked #6 before the season began.


Preseason rankings;

RJ
Zion
Cam
Bol
Romeo
Nas
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 01, 2019, 05:28:15 PM
Now it looks more like

Zion
Culver
Ja
RJ
...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on April 01, 2019, 05:47:24 PM
Zion
Morant
RJ
Culver
Garland
Title: Knicks favored by 3.5 tonight
Post by: Kam on April 01, 2019, 07:02:26 PM
Only the 10th time the Knicks have been favored to win all year.

Two terrible defenses and the O/U is only 214.5

Take the Bulls and the Over
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 01, 2019, 09:46:18 PM
Like i said, take the Knicks and the Under.
Title: Fizzy and the vets
Post by: carlos123 on April 01, 2019, 10:37:56 PM
Q. Why is Jordan not playing?

A. Fizzy doesn't like vets not named Lance.

MEANWHILE ... Enes Kanter doing quite well for Portland, thank you:


STARTERS   MIN   FG   3PT   FT   OREB   DREB   REB   AST      BLK   TO   PF   +/-   PTS

E. Kanter C  26    7-10 0-1   6-8      6           5      11      1        5       2      3    +2    20
Title: Emmanuel Mudiay
Post by: Kam on April 02, 2019, 12:41:25 AM
Emmanuel Mudiay has now reached starter criteria and is eligible for a $5.75M Qualifying Offer. The New York Knicks point guard met the criteria by starting 41 games during the 2018-19 season. The cap hold of $12.88M in the off-season remains the same. New York will have until June 29 to extend the one-year guaranteed contract


So we either sign him right before the cap hold goes in effect to a lesser figure.... or  we set him free.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 02, 2019, 02:19:28 AM
Mudiay at 4 mil per year is ok. Hard to justify paying him any more than that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on April 02, 2019, 09:11:24 AM
Went to the game last night, only Garden appearance of the year for yours truly. My buddy had the tix, some kind of suite with complimentary hot dogs and sushi.

We've been going to games together for three decades. Got thrown out of a home opener together back in 88 or 89 and discovered MSG has an elevator that deposits you directly out onto the street. We yapped a lot last night so didn't focus hard on the game even as our boys built an unprecedented-for-this-season lead.

Kornet was involved in the game's two highlights. He was absolutely destroyed on a monster dunk by somebody named JaKarr Sampson who was playing his first game with the Bulls early in the 3rd. Then absolutely gave it back with a monster of his own later in the quarter.

The crowd liked the dunks, but like us, not very focused, didn't seem to notice when the lead got near 30, nor when it was cut back down to 5. And why should they. Basically one cut above summer league this game. Pete Rock was the guest DJ. I love Pete Rock, but something kind of sad about watching a true legend mix Michael Jackson songs during timeouts in a lost season.

•How close to summer league was it? The Bulls opened with Walt Lemon Jr., Shaquille Harrison, Timothe Luwawu-Cabarrot, Wayne Selden Jr. and Robin Lopez.

•• The Jakarr Sampson slam. Notice how the play is triggered by a prototypical Mudiay stumble-and-be-stripped in the lane. Yeah, he's gotten better. No, you cannot give this guy real money over real years. https://twitter.com/NBCSBulls/status/1112881276573437954

•••Luke gives it back: https://twitter.com/SomosBasketweb/status/1113049735525527552
Title: Re: Nassir Little
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 02, 2019, 09:53:15 AM
Quote from: Kam on April 01, 2019, 03:15:24 PM
hires an agent and enters the draft.


And stops going to class.....

I really don't like this system.  But have no suggestions for a fix.

If the kids finish school year it cuts into workout time and costs dollars

If you move the combines and draft back it affects summer league.
Title: Re: Emmanuel Mudiay
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 02, 2019, 09:56:27 AM
Quote from: Kam on April 02, 2019, 12:41:25 AM
Emmanuel Mudiay has now reached starter criteria and is eligible for a $5.75M Qualifying Offer. The New York Knicks point guard met the criteria by starting 41 games during the 2018-19 season. The cap hold of $12.88M in the off-season remains the same. New York will have until June 29 to extend the one-year guaranteed contract


So we either sign him right before the cap hold goes in effect to a lesser figure.... or  we set him free.

Why wouldn't you give Mudiay 5.75 for 1?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 02, 2019, 09:59:02 AM
Cap hold goes away if he signs elsewhere right?  So we lose 12 mil temporarily.  And if he signs say for 4-32 somewhere maybe we decide to match.
Title: Re: Emmanuel Mudiay
Post by: lesterluv on April 02, 2019, 11:16:56 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 02, 2019, 09:56:27 AM

Why wouldn't you give Mudiay 5.75 for 1?

That's reasonable. Unless we need the cap space to sign our 3rd star, lol...
Title: Re: Fizzy and the vets
Post by: lesterluv on April 02, 2019, 11:22:21 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on April 01, 2019, 10:37:56 PM

MEANWHILE ... Enes Kanter doing quite well for Portland, thank you:


yep, as a reserve and as a starter, Blazers 3 out of 4 since Nurkic went down and still holding third in the West.

Could be why the chucklehead who wrote this is too embarrassed to show his face around here anymore.

Quote from: PrezIke on January 28, 2019, 11:40:41 PM

You mean a player who has no future with the team, barely the NBA, and stats shows causes more harm than good on the floor?

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on April 02, 2019, 12:45:39 PM
Quote from: Kam on April 01, 2019, 01:36:46 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on March 30, 2019, 02:46:37 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 29, 2019, 08:21:56 PM
https://twitter.com/NoelChambers7/status/1111747663714795520 (https://twitter.com/NoelChambers7/status/1111747663714795520)

For the thousandth time, don't play Frank at the 1. Play him off the ball.

To what end? 

He isn't a starting PG that doesn't make him a starter anywhere else. If he can't play his position in the NBA and start for the worst team in the league... why are we holding onto him?  Sentiment?  He needs reps at PG if he is to develop.

He was drafted to play PG

He will sink or swim here or elsewhere as such.  If his true value is "utility guy off the bench you play for defensive purposes"  we had one of those already in Lance Thomas.

a) He was "drafted to play PG" by a guy who didn't really believe in PGs as they actually exist
b) I said around draft night he seemed more like an SG to me than PG. I stand by that.
c) I think he can become a rotation guard who can guard the opponent's 1, 2 or 3, and who can be, at best, a secondary playmaker. I think forcing him to play the 1 is putting a square peg into a round hole at this point, and he needs to develop where he is most likely to contribute, as an off-guard and secondary ball-handler. If he can develop into something further, great. But I don't see that as the priority right now. His best position is the 2, he needs to focus on that. You say he needs reps as a PG to develop, but I don't get why. He needs reps at his best, most natural position to develop.
d) You hold on to him because not all development is linear, because his trade value is low, because we're likely going to need players next year and if we are lucky enough to bring on an all-star or two, we're going to need guys who don't need the ball to be effective. You move him if you need cap space or if someone else offers a piece that fits better next year, but not because you already have Lance Thomas, who by the way is likely not a Knick next year.
e) Most of the most likely all-NBA calibre players to come to NY are point guards. And we have DSJ and Mudiay to consider. I don't see Frank beating any of those guys for minutes, no matter how things shake out, at the 1. But I can see a path to minutes off the ball.
Title: Re: Emmanuel Mudiay
Post by: Kam on April 02, 2019, 01:58:54 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 02, 2019, 09:56:27 AM
Quote from: Kam on April 02, 2019, 12:41:25 AM
Emmanuel Mudiay has now reached starter criteria and is eligible for a $5.75M Qualifying Offer. The New York Knicks point guard met the criteria by starting 41 games during the 2018-19 season. The cap hold of $12.88M in the off-season remains the same. New York will have until June 29 to extend the one-year guaranteed contract


So we either sign him right before the cap hold goes in effect to a lesser figure.... or  we set him free.

Why wouldn't you give Mudiay 5.75 for 1?

Because we might need that 5.75 for better players starting July 1.   

So we have to decide by Jun 29 to give him that 5.75

I would re-sign Mud after we know we aint getting anyone and he is what we have left over.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 02, 2019, 02:03:11 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on April 02, 2019, 12:45:39 PM
Quote from: Kam on April 01, 2019, 01:36:46 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on March 30, 2019, 02:46:37 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 29, 2019, 08:21:56 PM
https://twitter.com/NoelChambers7/status/1111747663714795520 (https://twitter.com/NoelChambers7/status/1111747663714795520)

For the thousandth time, don't play Frank at the 1. Play him off the ball.

To what end? 

He isn't a starting PG that doesn't make him a starter anywhere else. If he can't play his position in the NBA and start for the worst team in the league... why are we holding onto him?  Sentiment?  He needs reps at PG if he is to develop.

He was drafted to play PG

He will sink or swim here or elsewhere as such.  If his true value is "utility guy off the bench you play for defensive purposes"  we had one of those already in Lance Thomas.

a) He was "drafted to play PG" by a guy who didn't really believe in PGs as they actually exist
b) I said around draft night he seemed more like an SG to me than PG. I stand by that.
c) I think he can become a rotation guard who can guard the opponent's 1, 2 or 3, and who can be, at best, a secondary playmaker. I think forcing him to play the 1 is putting a square peg into a round hole at this point, and he needs to develop where he is most likely to contribute, as an off-guard and secondary ball-handler. If he can develop into something further, great. But I don't see that as the priority right now. His best position is the 2, he needs to focus on that. You say he needs reps as a PG to develop, but I don't get why. He needs reps at his best, most natural position to develop.
d) You hold on to him because not all development is linear, because his trade value is low, because we're likely going to need players next year and if we are lucky enough to bring on an all-star or two, we're going to need guys who don't need the ball to be effective. You move him if you need cap space or if someone else offers a piece that fits better next year, but not because you already have Lance Thomas, who by the way is likely not a Knick next year.
e) Most of the most likely all-NBA calibre players to come to NY are point guards. And we have DSJ and Mudiay to consider. I don't see Frank beating any of those guys for minutes, no matter how things shake out, at the 1. But I can see a path to minutes off the ball.

a SG who can't shoot or won't shoot because he is too unselfish?  Isn't that a PG?
Title: Re: Emmanuel Mudiay
Post by: facilitatorn on April 02, 2019, 03:11:48 PM
Quote from: Kam on April 02, 2019, 01:58:54 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 02, 2019, 09:56:27 AM
Quote from: Kam on April 02, 2019, 12:41:25 AM
Emmanuel Mudiay has now reached starter criteria and is eligible for a $5.75M Qualifying Offer. The New York Knicks point guard met the criteria by starting 41 games during the 2018-19 season. The cap hold of $12.88M in the off-season remains the same. New York will have until June 29 to extend the one-year guaranteed contract


So we either sign him right before the cap hold goes in effect to a lesser figure.... or  we set him free.

Why wouldn't you give Mudiay 5.75 for 1?

Because we might need that 5.75 for better players starting July 1.   

So we have to decide by Jun 29 to give him that 5.75

I would re-sign Mud after we know we aint getting anyone and he is what we have left over.

Kadeem Allen would take less and is better at basketball in every phase of the game.
Title: Re: Emmanuel Mudiay
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 02, 2019, 04:00:18 PM
Quote from: Kam on April 02, 2019, 01:58:54 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 02, 2019, 09:56:27 AM
Quote from: Kam on April 02, 2019, 12:41:25 AM
Emmanuel Mudiay has now reached starter criteria and is eligible for a $5.75M Qualifying Offer. The New York Knicks point guard met the criteria by starting 41 games during the 2018-19 season. The cap hold of $12.88M in the off-season remains the same. New York will have until June 29 to extend the one-year guaranteed contract


So we either sign him right before the cap hold goes in effect to a lesser figure.... or  we set him free.

Why wouldn't you give Mudiay 5.75 for 1?

Because we might need that 5.75 for better players starting July 1.   

So we have to decide by Jun 29 to give him that 5.75

I would re-sign Mud after we know we aint getting anyone and he is what we have left over.

5.75 is a bargain.  He turns it down .... Is the cap hold then still on until he signs with someone?
Title: Re: Emmanuel Mudiay
Post by: Kam on April 02, 2019, 04:26:19 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 02, 2019, 04:00:18 PM
Quote from: Kam on April 02, 2019, 01:58:54 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 02, 2019, 09:56:27 AM
Quote from: Kam on April 02, 2019, 12:41:25 AM
Emmanuel Mudiay has now reached starter criteria and is eligible for a $5.75M Qualifying Offer. The New York Knicks point guard met the criteria by starting 41 games during the 2018-19 season. The cap hold of $12.88M in the off-season remains the same. New York will have until June 29 to extend the one-year guaranteed contract


So we either sign him right before the cap hold goes in effect to a lesser figure.... or  we set him free.

Why wouldn't you give Mudiay 5.75 for 1?

Because we might need that 5.75 for better players starting July 1.   

So we have to decide by Jun 29 to give him that 5.75

I would re-sign Mud after we know we aint getting anyone and he is what we have left over.

5.75 is a bargain.  He turns it down .... Is the cap hold then still on until he signs with someone?

If we give him a qualifying offer, there's a $12.9mil cap hold. He'd become a restricted free agent but we could go over the cap and match whatever contract he gets with his Bird Rights. This is obviously not ideal if we want to chase a max free agent.

If we don't give him a qualifying offer, we'd give up his Bird Rights. Mudiay would become a restricted free agent but we would not be able to go over the cap to sign him. It'd be up to how much other teams are willing to pay him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 02, 2019, 06:32:13 PM
No QO. If he hasn’t found a market and we haven’t hit a budget, we can hook up later.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 02, 2019, 07:28:57 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 02, 2019, 06:32:13 PM
No QO. If he hasn’t found a market and we haven’t hit a budget, we can hook up later.

Exactly.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 02, 2019, 08:01:57 PM
He will be long gone.  You had better be very confident in the other guards you can bring in.  Big free agent signings playing with Dennis and Frank doesn't seem too appealing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 02, 2019, 08:33:06 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 02, 2019, 08:01:57 PM
He will be long gone.  You had better be very confident in the other guards you can bring in.  Big free agent signings playing with Dennis and Frank doesn't seem too appealing.

Kyrie and Kemba are available.  If you get one of those you're good and don't need EM.  Backup Frank is fine.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 02, 2019, 11:19:01 PM
yyyeppp

I even like the part about trading Dennis
Title: Re: Emmanuel Mudiay
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 02, 2019, 11:19:57 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 02, 2019, 03:11:48 PM
Quote from: Kam on April 02, 2019, 01:58:54 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 02, 2019, 09:56:27 AM
Quote from: Kam on April 02, 2019, 12:41:25 AM
Emmanuel Mudiay has now reached starter criteria and is eligible for a $5.75M Qualifying Offer. The New York Knicks point guard met the criteria by starting 41 games during the 2018-19 season. The cap hold of $12.88M in the off-season remains the same. New York will have until June 29 to extend the one-year guaranteed contract


So we either sign him right before the cap hold goes in effect to a lesser figure.... or  we set him free.

Why wouldn't you give Mudiay 5.75 for 1?

Because we might need that 5.75 for better players starting July 1.   

So we have to decide by Jun 29 to give him that 5.75

I would re-sign Mud after we know we aint getting anyone and he is what we have left over.

Kadeem Allen would take less and is better at basketball in every phase of the game.

heh
Title: Re: Nassir Little
Post by: bodiddley on April 02, 2019, 11:59:56 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 02, 2019, 09:53:15 AM
Quote from: Kam on April 01, 2019, 03:15:24 PM
hires an agent and enters the draft.
And stops going to class.....
I really don't like this system.  But have no suggestions for a fix.
If the kids finish school year it cuts into workout time and costs dollars

For the student athletes who only want the second half of that description and don't want to attend any classes, pay them $40K a year.  And admit one more student paying full tuition (probably a foreigner).  Problem solved.
Title: Chico is a heh happy camper
Post by: carlos123 on April 03, 2019, 01:35:17 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 02, 2019, 11:19:57 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 02, 2019, 03:11:48 PM
Quote from: Kam on April 02, 2019, 01:58:54 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 02, 2019, 09:56:27 AM
Quote from: Kam on April 02, 2019, 12:41:25 AM
Emmanuel Mudiay has now reached starter criteria and is eligible for a $5.75M Qualifying Offer. The New York Knicks point guard met the criteria by starting 41 games during the 2018-19 season. The cap hold of $12.88M in the off-season remains the same. New York will have until June 29 to extend the one-year guaranteed contract


So we either sign him right before the cap hold goes in effect to a lesser figure.... or  we set him free.

Why wouldn't you give Mudiay 5.75 for 1?

Because we might need that 5.75 for better players starting July 1.   

So we have to decide by Jun 29 to give him that 5.75

I would re-sign Mud after we know we aint getting anyone and he is what we have left over.

Kadeem Allen would take less and is better at basketball in every phase of the game.

heh

What’s so funny?
Title: Re: Emmanuel Mudiay
Post by: thebizneverloses on April 03, 2019, 01:35:53 AM
Quote from: Kam on April 02, 2019, 01:58:54 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 02, 2019, 09:56:27 AM
Quote from: Kam on April 02, 2019, 12:41:25 AM
Emmanuel Mudiay has now reached starter criteria and is eligible for a $5.75M Qualifying Offer. The New York Knicks point guard met the criteria by starting 41 games during the 2018-19 season. The cap hold of $12.88M in the off-season remains the same. New York will have until June 29 to extend the one-year guaranteed contract


So we either sign him right before the cap hold goes in effect to a lesser figure.... or  we set him free.

Why wouldn't you give Mudiay 5.75 for 1?

Because we might need that 5.75 for better players starting July 1.   

So we have to decide by Jun 29 to give him that 5.75

I would re-sign Mud after we know we aint getting anyone and he is what we have left over.

Exactly
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 03, 2019, 02:16:15 AM
Mud is erratic.  Mud is sloppy.  Mud is inattentive on D.  But Mud also has improved a lot.  Can be useful.  Certainly not essential.

What's the feeling here about Jr. Smith?
I haven't seen enough to judge or project his future.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 03, 2019, 02:21:46 AM
Smith is on the Mudiay train two years behind.  Already traded once his value isn't too high.  His year 2 stats aren't an improvement on Mudiy's year 2.  The hope is DSJ matures quicker than EM.
Title: 20-20-21
Post by: Kam on April 03, 2019, 02:22:36 AM
Russell Westbrook making his case for MVP of April.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 03, 2019, 08:15:22 AM
Quote from: Kam on April 03, 2019, 02:21:46 AM
Smith is on the Mudiay train two years behind.  Already traded once his value isn't too high.  His year 2 stats aren't an improvement on Mudiy's year 2.  The hope is DSJ matures quicker than EM.

Commit to EM (4-40).  He has done what has been asked and there is more room for growth.

Deal Smith for a pick if you want to even out the money some.

But they won't.  The CAP HOLD will lead us to keeping the lesser player.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 03, 2019, 11:37:32 AM
Kid, 4-40 is both a great plan to turn Mudiay into an albatross and a perfect example of the kind of move that got Phil Jackson fired. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 03, 2019, 11:49:13 AM
http://theknickswall.com/free-agent-knicks-reclamation-projects-emmanuel-mudiay-noah-vonleh-mario-hezonja/ (http://theknickswall.com/free-agent-knicks-reclamation-projects-emmanuel-mudiay-noah-vonleh-mario-hezonja/)

Numbers match the eye test on all three guys.

Mario back for the minimum wouldn’t be the end of the world.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 03, 2019, 11:55:31 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 03, 2019, 11:37:32 AM
Kid, 4-40 is both a great plan to turn Mudiay into an albatross and a perfect example of the kind of move that got Phil Jackson fired.

Heh

19.8 points per 36 minutes = $$$$$$

Only 10 other PG do this - 11 if you include Harden
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 03, 2019, 12:31:22 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 03, 2019, 11:37:32 AM
Kid, 4-40 is both a great plan to turn Mudiay into an albatross and a perfect example of the kind of move that got Phil Jackson fired.

That'd be an awful deal.
If you think Mud is worth $10M, at most you sign him to a 3/$30M deal with a team option on the Y3.  So if you're going to overpay him, only guarantee 2 years.  Problem is, Mud still ain't really a good player, nor worth $10M each of the next two years, so you'd be overpaying.

I don't think they'll be much of a market for Mud.
He's sloppy at lead guard.  Which maybe 5 teams need, but likely won't want him.  He's sort of the inverse of a 3&D player -- a midrange shooter with weak D,.  That's not where the game is going and what's valued these days.  And if he can't keep up his midrange FG%, achieved in a  contract year on a weak team, he could be pretty useless unless he can gets his 3 into shape.

As of now, Mud is really a 2nd unit combo guard, who is inconsistent and mistake prone, but can score.  Which is okayish.  But not worth near $10M.  4/$22M would be reasonable.  Because he'd likely retain trade value at that level.  And he could develop/improve.  If Mud falls into the $7M-$8M range, which is possible, I'd want to know how else that money could be spent and again be wary of any long term commitment.  Over $6M, I'd wash my hands of Mud, anoint Jr. Smith starting PG and begin the rehab of Frankina. 

That might be the best move for clarity anyway. 
Who you prefer?  Smith & Mud?  or Smith and Franc?  The latter tandem is cheaper and gives you one PG who plays D, so I'd opt for Franc over Mud.  [I guess the 3rd option is Mud & Franc, but it's be Sell Low on Jr. Smith with him being shifted again so soon, and he deserves time to show what he can do.

Maybe that can be a new poll:
Who do you prefer at PG:
* Smith & Mud
* Smith & Franc
* Mud & Franc
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 03, 2019, 01:12:24 PM
Smith Frank and Trier with the long bets on Frank and Trier.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 03, 2019, 03:23:57 PM
"....you sign himfor 3-30 with year 3 an option..."

Bo seems to miss the part where EM becomes a free agent - off his strongest season and at age 23.

15 mil a year is OK for Oubre though.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 03, 2019, 03:30:48 PM
Oubre is a wing getting you 16 pts, 5 rebs, and plays D. That’s at least twice as valuable as a pg who doesn’t pass or defend much, which is what we see from Mudiay.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Urethra_Franklin on April 03, 2019, 08:19:43 PM
This is the first time I've really wanted the Knicks to win since early December as I want to see D-Wade in the playoffs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 03, 2019, 09:22:33 PM
Knicks were not able to accommodate you.

Mudiay and Mario with prototypical swan song games. Might be too little too late to help their values this offseason.
Title: Enes Kanter
Post by: carlos123 on April 04, 2019, 01:34:19 AM
Nice line again today: 21 points and 15 rebounds with a +23, second only to Dame’s +25.

I see Jordan doing the same for another team next year.

I mean, Mitchell is a wonderful player and all, but it wouldn’t hurt having another productive C.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on April 04, 2019, 07:29:32 AM
Guy just has no place on a winning team, or even anywhere in the modern NBA;)

https://twitter.com/NBAFantasy/status/1113648357661188101

lol, lol, lol, lol, lol, lol, lol, lol


Both Portland and Houston are barking at Denver for that 2 spot now. Trailblazer/Nuggets home and home on tap.
Title: Re: Enes Kanter
Post by: bodiddley on April 04, 2019, 12:07:23 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on April 04, 2019, 01:34:19 AM
Nice line again today: 21 points and 15 rebounds with a +23, second only to Dame’s +25.
I see Jordan doing the same for another team next year.
I mean, Mitchell is a wonderful player and all, but it wouldn’t hurt having another productive C.

A lot depends on what we do in FA.
But there's a C glut, so it's not too hard to pick up a credible Big who can split time with and mentor Mitch.  Btw, DeAndretheGiant should be a good Mitch mentor.

I was watching the 2nd half of ATL v SAS, and Alex Len popped in 3 straightaway treys.  The last one a little before the quarter ended.  This is a Brook Lopez sized human starting to pop 3's.  Len only shot 25 3-pointers his first 5 years in PHX, but has already jacked 179 this year for ATL, hitting at a solid 36% clip.  He looked comfortable shooting out there.

He did start the 4Q by catching a lob underneath, not going up that strong, getting fouled and missing a pair of FT's.  He isn't terribly nimble or comfortable guarding on the perimeter, but gives effort, though sometimes a little slow reacting/deciding.  But turning into a solid floor spacer, and sets good picks.

Just 25, hitting 26 this Summer.
Not saying Len is the answer, but the Hawks picked him on a bargain 2/$8.5M deal.  Bucks got Brook Lopez on a similar sized deal.  After FA, we'll know how competitive the Knix will be next year.  And how much money is left to fill out the roster.  But there should be some C's available at good rates.  I'll have to check on FA C's.

Hell, Hawks have Plumlee at $12M, Dedmon $7M and Spellman and Deyonta Davis as cheap yute, so they'd probably trade Len for Franc, if we wanted to do such.  Just saying that there should be plenty of options to get a decent C at a bargain rate.  If we project as a lower playoff seed or a below .500 team, then I might prefer Mitch starting. Hard to say too much when we don't know next year's roster construction, but I've managed a long post anyway . . .
Title: Re: Enes Kanter
Post by: carlos123 on April 04, 2019, 01:14:21 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 04, 2019, 12:07:23 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on April 04, 2019, 01:34:19 AM
Nice line again today: 21 points and 15 rebounds with a +23, second only to Dame’s +25.
I see Jordan doing the same for another team next year.
I mean, Mitchell is a wonderful player and all, but it wouldn’t hurt having another productive C.

A lot depends on what we do in FA.
But there's a C glut, so it's not too hard to pick up a credible Big who can split time with and mentor Mitch.  Btw, DeAndretheGiant should be a good Mitch mentor.

. . .

Well, Fizzy ain’t playing him. I don’t see how he’d want to be back next year. Actually I don’t see any vet wanting to play for Fizzy, that is unless his name is Lance...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 04, 2019, 07:26:27 PM
We can extend a min level QO for Kadeem Allen which should be a 3 or 4 million dollar cap hold instead of doing the same for Mudiay at 12 and change. He definitely counts as capable cheap guard depth.

Smith Jr., Allen, Trier, Dotson all give good value. Can Frank stay healthy and make progress? One more season like the last two would make this summer the cut bait point if that’s what we expect. Decent progress in execution and a healthy start to the season would raise his value if not make him a keeper. The calculus changes again on whether or not other team are coming forward with substantial offers or if they are shying away. I’m feeling good about giving him one more spin. I’m trusting Perry and Mills to know if there is a reason or reasons not to and to pull the trigger in that event.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 04, 2019, 08:05:54 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on April 04, 2019, 07:29:32 AM
Guy just has no place on a winning team, or even anywhere in the modern NBA;)



Come on Les you are better than this.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 04, 2019, 11:36:58 PM
Article on Knox and Trae's deficiencies:
https://cleaningtheglass.com/first-year-frustrations/
It seems to be paywalled, but maybe someone has access.(?)

Saw 4Q of Bucks-Sixers.
Embiid had a 30+ trip-dub, but he was moving slow in the 4Q.  Maybe a combo of the knee and fatigue.  But he looked iffy.  Couldn't get back on D a few times.  Sloppy shooting.  Missed FT's.  Did tie up Anti-Greek once on a drive.  If Embiid is not in in good health/form, PHI isn't going too far.  1st round not a big threat, so still time to get him right.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 05, 2019, 06:11:42 AM
Recapping the Season in general terms:

Disappointing year for:

WASH -- Wall finally breaks down.  Bringing in Dwight and JeffGreen unsurprisingly didn't help.  Trading both your quality SF's (Porter and Uber) and bringing in old vet Ariza to win now.  32 W's with 3 left.
At least they finally canned Ernie.  WIZ stay too loyal to their front office and players.  It costs them.  [they overpaid/longtermed Blatche, Mahinmi, Gortat?, Wall, Porter -- with little result]

MIA -- Wade's reunion was a positive.  Injuries derailed them (Dragic, Winslow, JoshRich, etc).  Scrappy, hard-nosed team.  That has trouble scoring.  And a losing Home record.  How are they 20-18 on the Road and just 18-22 at Home?  A few more Home wins and theyre in the playoffs.  Whiteside still enigmatic; Dragic still frail.  Lotta role players, no stars.

BOS -- Might be the 4th seed, so the season still salvageable.  And of the Top 4 East, MIL and PHI inexperienced in the playoffs.  But with Kyrie and Gordo joining last year's powerhouse, they seemed poised to be a much better reg season team.  Kyrie not much of a leader.  Haywire up and down (they seem a much better team the games he plays well.  Horford seemed slightly diminished, with nagging injuries.
Jaylen and Rozier took a step back.  Nearly 50 W's isn't bad; the playoff path is there; lotta talent and still a terrific coach; but a losing Road record (19-20) doesn't inspire confidence and the chemistry never came together (I blame Kyrie).

CHA -- but that's not exactly surprising.  Kemba played his ass off. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 05, 2019, 06:32:19 AM
Successful Year for:

MIL -- Auntie-Greek probably turned in an MVP campaign with great 2-way play and the league's best record.  Gonna hit 60 W's and have Home court throughout.  Congrats.  Bud did a great job of orchestrating Giannis + shooters.  With a strong defense.  A lot of 3&D, around the best paint attacker in the game.  props to Middlguy; Brogdon, Lopez, Bled.  Best starting 5 in the NBofA.  I'm still concerned about their bench and over-reliance on Greek during the playoffs.

IND -- Oladipo went down and they shrugged.  Bog stepped up.  Nice two-way team play.  Congrats Nate.  They really could use that 4th seed to beat Smelts, but nice year.

TOR -- won a lot.  Upgraded from DeMar to Kawhi, which hopefully takes playoff pressure off Lowry.  Did everything to make Kawhi happy (winning, minutes restrictions, sitting games out, great fan base).

BKY -- They started awful, lost their best scorer, and ... came together.  Props to Dinwiddie, Tangelo, Joe Harris, Jarrett Allen and whoever the hell is on their team.

ORL -- looks like they'll squeeze into the playoffs.
They use Fournier as their go-to scorer late.  But big years from Vuc, Ross form the bench; solid Gordon and Fournier; Isaac showed flashes.  Get them a starting PG and things could start to happen.
Playoff experience will be a good thing.

ATL -- One more and they hit 30 W's.  Trae belongs; Collins a potential stud.  Huerter looks solid; Len was a bargain pickup.  Price, Bembry, Bazemore play hard (look like scrappy Heat players).  Will take a few years at least, but you can certainly see the outlines of The Future there.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 05, 2019, 06:51:57 AM
The other 5 EAST Teams:

PHI -- loaded up their starting lineup.  Some fit issues.  Bench questions.  I hated to see Covington go, which will be an issue if Butler bolts.  Don't think it's their year.

DET -- Blake played his @ss off and has started breaking down in the stretch.  Nobody else did much.  Terrible Road record.  Irrelevant.

NYK --   A development, reclamation, tryout year.  Started over 100 players, including a few members of this forum, iirc.  Lots of guys showed promise or flashes.  Mitch, Knox, Mud, Vonleh, Dot, Tryer.
Ditched Tim Jr again.  Franc & Zonja disappointed.  Some rough times for Ft Knox.  Secured a Top 5 draft pick.

CHI -- seemed to have a lot of injuries.  Markk is genuine; swapping Porter for Jabari is a huge positive.  Wendell Crater looks solid.

CLE -- Still have a team apparently.  Sexton got his O in gear post A-S.
Exiled JR Smith.  Pretty much just a bummer of a season, and couldn't even out-lose the Knicks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on April 05, 2019, 08:56:04 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 04, 2019, 08:05:54 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on April 04, 2019, 07:29:32 AM
Guy just has no place on a winning team, or even anywhere in the modern NBA;)



Come on Les you are better than this.

Lol, i'm not...you don't know me by now after all these years? — THE MOLESTER

That asshat PriIke clogged up this board posting 10,000x about how Kanter sucks. I'm allowed to have fun with his idiocy two or three times....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 05, 2019, 09:15:04 AM
Heh

I read it wrong, my bad.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 05, 2019, 02:13:39 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 05, 2019, 06:11:42 AM
Recapping the Season in general terms:

Disappointing year for:

WASH -- Wall finally breaks down.  Bringing in Dwight and JeffGreen unsurprisingly didn't help.  Trading both your quality SF's (Porter and Uber) and bringing in old vet Ariza to win now.  32 W's with 3 left.
At least they finally canned Ernie.  WIZ stay too loyal to their front office and players.  It costs them.  [they overpaid/longtermed Blatche, Mahinmi, Gortat?, Wall, Porter -- with little result]


They won the Stanley Cup.  Forgot Ovechkin's contract. Can't say Leonsis had a bad year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 05, 2019, 02:51:43 PM
Extended MOCK  4/4

https://www.nbadraft.net/2019-extended-mock-draft-10

They are sticking with Hachimura at 4.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on April 05, 2019, 02:58:21 PM
I find him an extremely unimpressive #4. 
Title: Re: Enes Kanter
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 05, 2019, 03:01:52 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 04, 2019, 12:07:23 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on April 04, 2019, 01:34:19 AM
Nice line again today: 21 points and 15 rebounds with a +23, second only to Dame’s +25.
I see Jordan doing the same for another team next year.
I mean, Mitchell is a wonderful player and all, but it wouldn’t hurt having another productive C.

A lot depends on what we do in FA.
But there's a C glut, so it's not too hard to pick up a credible Big who can split time with and mentor Mitch.  Btw, DeAndretheGiant should be a good Mitch mentor.

I was watching the 2nd half of ATL v SAS, and Alex Len popped in 3 straightaway treys.  The last one a little before the quarter ended.  This is a Brook Lopez sized human starting to pop 3's.  Len only shot 25 3-pointers his first 5 years in PHX, but has already jacked 179 this year for ATL, hitting at a solid 36% clip.  He looked comfortable shooting out there.

He did start the 4Q by catching a lob underneath, not going up that strong, getting fouled and missing a pair of FT's.  He isn't terribly nimble or comfortable guarding on the perimeter, but gives effort, though sometimes a little slow reacting/deciding.  But turning into a solid floor spacer, and sets good picks.

Just 25, hitting 26 this Summer.
Not saying Len is the answer, but the Hawks picked him on a bargain 2/$8.5M deal.  Bucks got Brook Lopez on a similar sized deal.  After FA, we'll know how competitive the Knix will be next year.  And how much money is left to fill out the roster.  But there should be some C's available at good rates.  I'll have to check on FA C's.

Hell, Hawks have Plumlee at $12M, Dedmon $7M and Spellman and Deyonta Davis as cheap yute, so they'd probably trade Len for Franc, if we wanted to do such.  Just saying that there should be plenty of options to get a decent C at a bargain rate.  If we project as a lower playoff seed or a below .500 team, then I might prefer Mitch starting. Hard to say too much when we don't know next year's roster construction, but I've managed a long post anyway . . .

Pencil in Durant and we can move on from there
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 06, 2019, 01:37:20 AM
I will guarantee that Durant does not come to NY unless it's paired with another megastar.  Heading into his 30's I doubt he wants to be like LeBJ in LA.

IND got smushed by Celts in the flatland.
Nate really stuck with his bench far too long when they were getting smoked late 3Q and more early 4Q.  There was a painfully long stretch where they were relying on Tyreke (38% FG for the season); Aaron "shrimpy" Holiday and McDermott for scoring ... and abysmal defense.  Stuck way too long with what wasn't working.  Yeah, the starters had been outplayed too, but the bench was awful and Nate stuck with it, so a 12-14 lead went to 24.  Bo no understand.  Key game, you have to compete with your best players.

DEN-POR.   Don't know if it was a POR-specific strategy, but NUGs constantly sagged in the paint or switched and left guys wide open on the weak side.  They got away with it as Lillard went 0-6 on 3's in an uncharacteristically quiet game.  While the team went an okay 10-29.  10-24 other than Lillard.  Maybe can do that with McCollum out, but seemed a risky strategy to leave guys open.  Frequently a wide open weak side Blazer cut towards the middle caught a pass on the move with nobody within 8 feet and easily made a move for a score.  So it wasn't just open 3's, but guys  catching the ball in space while moving forward.

Kant with a POR game high 24.  They showed his shot chart and 16 FG's were in the restricted area, and just one in the paint 4 feet further out.  He was hustling and feisty.  But couldn't contain crafty burly Jokic.  And when you're known as a weak defender, guys go at you. 

Very much a West Coast game, with shooting at a premium and marginal defense.  POR made the hustle plays 2nd half, but DEN shot well.  Didn't look like a playoff-type game to me.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 06, 2019, 01:44:33 AM
Who was the last Knick to record a triple-double?

Watching Caruso in the GS game, I thought he looked like a mini-Ginobili.  Wasn't even a particularly good game for him.  But bounced back with 32 / 10 / 5 v. the other other LA team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 06, 2019, 02:01:46 AM
Before Mario it was Jack.

We have such a weirdo team this year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 06, 2019, 12:32:58 PM
A truly awful defensive performance.
Countless times 2 Knix would belatedly head to the same perimeter player.  Usually seemed to involve Knox or Jenkins or both.
Does anyone like Jenkins?
He seems useless and duplicative.

I kept waiting for Zonja to go off.  He was passing, but more like hockey assists and guys missing shots.  Also looked to me like he had 6 turnovers.  At least 6 of his 16 points were late $Q down by 30+.  But I missed most of his other stats.  Missed the first 7 mins, maybe he started off well(?)

I thought the only positive was Kornet's D.  And now I see that he was the only Knick with a positive +/-.  He's really improved on D all year.  Keeps the fouls in check, contests, blocks some.
Was also a pretty solid game by Hellenson.  Scrapped, banged, went at Harden.

I found it real odd that HOU kept their starting unit out there to finished the 2Q when the lead was over 30.  Then Harden was out there fairly late too.  Bzdelik wanting to make sure of the W(?)
I would have run Harden into picks and gone at him every trip until they took him out.   The Rockettes all flaked off to the lockerroom and left Shump as the lone guy sitting on the bench most of the 4Q?  Odd.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 06, 2019, 12:53:07 PM
Quote
Moncrief played four years at Arkansas, where he led the Razorbacks to a Final Four appearance in 1978. The following year, the Milwaukee Bucks drafted him fifth overall, where he played for 10 years before spending his final season with the Atlanta Hawks. Moncrief was a two-time Defensive Player of the Year and a five-time All-Defensive Team choice.

Always liked Moncrief.
Sort of a smaller Pippen, a generation earlier.
Glad he's getting in the HoF.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on April 06, 2019, 02:05:39 PM
Now do the West conference, Bo. East was well done.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 06, 2019, 05:35:42 PM
Re:  Durant and "second star" -

Kev's gotta have some pull, wouldnt you believe?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 06, 2019, 05:37:41 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 06, 2019, 01:44:33 AM
Who was the last Knick to record a triple-double?

Watching Caruso in the GS game, I thought he looked like a mini-Ginobili.  Wasn't even a particularly good game for him.  But bounced back with 32 / 10 / 5 v. the other other LA team.

Problem is we will never know about Caruso - he doesnt have the King's blessing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on April 06, 2019, 09:20:28 PM
 :-
Quote from: bodiddley on April 06, 2019, 12:53:07 PM
Quote
Moncrief played four years at Arkansas, where he led the Razorbacks to a Final Four appearance in 1978. The following year, the Milwaukee Bucks drafted him fifth overall, where he played for 10 years before spending his final season with the Atlanta Hawks. Moncrief was a two-time Defensive Player of the Year and a five-time All-Defensive Team choice.

Always liked Moncrief.
Sort of a smaller Pippen, a generation earlier.
Glad he's getting in the HoF.
Ditto that. Moncrief was a great player.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 07, 2019, 04:18:04 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 06, 2019, 05:35:42 PM
Re:  Durant and "second star" -
Kev's gotta have some pull, wouldnt you believe?

To an extent.
He also seems kind of aloof and annoying at times.
And he likes to shoot a lot.
I'd rather play with a Paul George or Kawhi -- 2 way guys who are easier to fit with.

Durant gets all prickly with the media, so NY still seems a bad fit to me. 

And I think the way NYK dealt with Melo, Noah and KZ will turn off FA's.  Players talk.

Vague report yesterday said PG13 wasn't much interested in the Lakes partly because they waived Cory Brew who then signed on with OKC and proceeded to badmouth LAL.

And, uh, our team is for the most part without starters.
Can't believe there aren't other more attractive situations to go to.

Otherwise it really seems you need KD and a top Point (Kyrie or Kemba I guess) in order to be truly competitive and not just a replay of the Melo years . . .

I'd say a 9.284% chance of Durant coming to NY this Summer.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 07, 2019, 04:38:03 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on April 06, 2019, 02:05:39 PM
Now do the West conference, Bo. East was well done.

West is for you.

A number of teams I didn't see much of.  Especially OKC and Utah. I didn't see as many games this year as I usually do.
There were also oddities, like almost every time I saw DAL, Doncic was out. 

I only saw the Spurs, Kings, Lakes and Rockettes a lot.
Kings have no go-to guy and die in 4Q's. 
Spurs such an up and down team.  Have trouble with young athletic teams.  Can look sharp or terrible any game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 07, 2019, 01:33:07 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 07, 2019, 04:18:04 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 06, 2019, 05:35:42 PM
Re:  Durant and "second star" -
Kev's gotta have some pull, wouldnt you believe?

To an extent.
He also seems kind of aloof and annoying at times.
And he likes to shoot a lot.
I'd rather play with a Paul George or Kawhi -- 2 way guys who are easier to fit with.

Durant gets all prickly with the media, so NY still seems a bad fit to me. 

And I think the way NYK dealt with Melo, Noah and KZ will turn off FA's.  Players talk.

Vague report yesterday said PG13 wasn't much interested in the Lakes partly because they waived Cory Brew who then signed on with OKC and proceeded to badmouth LAL.

And, uh, our team is for the most part without starters.
Can't believe there aren't other more attractive situations to go to.

Otherwise it really seems you need KD and a top Point (Kyrie or Kemba I guess) in order to be truly competitive and not just a replay of the Melo years . . .

I'd say a 9.284% chance of Durant coming to NY this Summer.

I take Durant with DeAndre and the draft pick.  That is plenty competitive.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 07, 2019, 01:33:38 PM
Of course I do half expect a trade as well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 07, 2019, 04:28:10 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 06, 2019, 12:53:07 PM
Quote
Moncrief played four years at Arkansas, where he led the Razorbacks to a Final Four appearance in 1978. The following year, the Milwaukee Bucks drafted him fifth overall, where he played for 10 years before spending his final season with the Atlanta Hawks. Moncrief was a two-time Defensive Player of the Year and a five-time All-Defensive Team choice.

Always liked Moncrief.
Sort of a smaller Pippen, a generation earlier.
Glad he's getting in the HoF.

Yeah.  I see the Basketball Hal of Very Good welcomed quite a few.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 07, 2019, 04:55:45 PM
Tough OT loss for Heat.  Had last shot in regulation but tip came just after buzzer.  Raptors clamped down on D bigtime.

21 for Wade.  Winslow played well.  Just not enough vs Raps.

Still not out.  Home vs Philly next, then away to Nets.  If Nets lose today that could be a win and in for both teams in Game 82.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 07, 2019, 06:42:51 PM
Nets - up 13 vs sloppy unenthused Pacers -  12 minutes away from likely playoff date with Sixers.

7th/8th spot still open.
Title: Knox
Post by: Kam on April 07, 2019, 08:06:53 PM
With 4 assists and 2 rebounds in the first q.

Along with 8 points
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 07, 2019, 09:01:20 PM
Career High 5 assists for Knox so far.
First 10/5/5 game of his career.
First 15/5/5 game of his career.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 07, 2019, 09:21:31 PM
D'Angelo was told after the game that it was the clincher.  Had no clue.

Heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on April 07, 2019, 09:50:22 PM
Mario's stock rising. Showing grit, tenacity and smarts.

Title: 24 assists
Post by: Kam on April 07, 2019, 09:54:54 PM
Four guys with 5 assists

Kevin Knox
Ma hero Hezonja
Dennis And Smith
NY Dot
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 07, 2019, 10:07:57 PM
Parts of that game actually looked ok.

Glad we had worst record clinched already.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 07, 2019, 11:46:57 PM
Quote from: elephant on April 07, 2019, 09:50:22 PM
Mario's stock rising. Showing grit, tenacity and smarts.
... and turnovers.

I don't think NBA execs care much about these late season garbage games.
Delon Wright just put up a trip-dub.
Certainly useful for Zonja since he'll be looking for a contract and otherwise had a poor year.  Would a good team actually want him?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 08, 2019, 12:29:31 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 07, 2019, 04:28:10 PM
Yeah.  I see the Basketball Hall of Very Good welcomed quite a few.

Well, no clear-cut HoFers, which probably helps the borderline cases.

Moncrief
Quote
One of the finest defensive guards in NBA history, Moncrief played 10 of his 11 seasons with the Milwaukee Bucks, and he was a five-time All-Star and a two-time Defensive Player of the Year.  A four-time second-team All-NBA player and a first-team All-NBA selection in 1982-83

A great defender who also scored 20 PPG 5 straight seasons and averaged 50% FG for his career.  Led those 80's Bucks teams who were very good but couldn't get past the top East teams (PHI & BOS).

Really the only knock is that his 10 years with the Bucks was short.  Was a 4 year college player and then knee trouble shut him down after 10 years (+ one year comeback try).
I'm always in favor of defenders being recognized.

Sikma & Westphal & Bobby Jones were very good.  I could see them getting in, or on the bubble.  I was a bit surprised by Vlade.  Didn't strike me as a Hall player.  But maybe if you tack on his int'l career, plus exec work now, as a basketball lifer whose been involved in so many aspects.  Not bad for a guy who smoked 5 packs a day (I kid).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 08, 2019, 12:30:37 AM
JimJam got some minutes v Utah.
5-11 FG, but now 0-11 on NBA 3's, which is why he's out there ...
Title: Vlade Divac
Post by: Kam on April 08, 2019, 12:36:47 AM
https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/kings/why-kings-vlade-divacs-hall-fame-enshrinement-long-overdue (https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/kings/why-kings-vlade-divacs-hall-fame-enshrinement-long-overdue)

The Serbian-born 7-footer is one of just seven players in NBA history to record more than 13,000 points, 9,000 rebounds, 3,000 assists and 1,500 blocks. The other seven players are either in the Hall of Fame, or likely will be heading there when they become eligible.

Divac concluded his 14-year NBA career following the 2004-05 season. He averaged 11.8 points, 8.2 rebounds and 3.1 assists over 1,134 regular season games.

While his NBA totals are very good, they only tell a small portion of Divac’s impact on the sport.

As a teenager, Divac joined a talented group of young stars on the Yugoslavian National team in 1988. Prior to the split of Yugoslavia, Divac, along with Dino Radja, Toni Kukoc, Drazen Petrovic and Zarko Paspalj, took the international stage by storm.

“It was a great group of guys that each other better,” Divac told ESPN on Saturday following the announcement. “A lot of those guys made it to the NBA.”

Yugoslavia made it all the way to the gold medal game in Seoul, Korea, before falling to Arvydas Sabonis, Sarunas Marciulionis and their Soviet Union teammates by a final of 76-63. This was only the beginning for this squad.

Over his time playing for either the Yugoslavian or Serbian national teams, Divac took home EuroBasket gold medals in 1989, 1991 and 1995, as well as gold medals at the FIBA World Championship in 1990 and 2002.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 08, 2019, 01:10:31 AM
One time All-Star Vlade Divacs . . .

He was a solid, very useful presence on those good Kings teams.
But he really helped the Lakes.
A late 1st round pick (#26), Vlade became a starter by his 2nd year.  Then after 7 solid Lake seasons, they flipped him for Kobe.  After being drafted, Kobe refused to play for CHA and threatened to sit out.  LAL swooped in with a solid offer of a quality starting C.

Vlade with just 2 years in CHA then signed with SAC as a FA.
Where he had a nice 2nd act.
I recall early in his career, Magic getting in Vlade's face and exhorting him to play harder and smarter.  In the playoffs I think.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 08, 2019, 04:55:26 AM
Bobby Jones, another prime defender getting in.

What about Ben Wallace, Chris Webber, Marques Johnson?

I think CWebb would get in if not for his infamous college blunder; the kings choking and never getting to the Finals; and that he took money in college causing his school to get penalized years later.  On NBA play alone, he's borderline and probably gets in.  But those team and college issues hold him back, methinks.

I'm on the fence on Wallace.  4 or 5 great defensive years in DET.
But after he left DET he started breaking down and didn't have much impact.  Also, the poor FT shooting hurt his teams.
But he was a force in the paint, boarding and blocking and intimidating.

I was a Marques Johnson fan back in the day.  Prototypical SF of his era.  5x AS.  Roughly 21 / 7 / 4 assists over a 9 year career.  Bad neck injury cut his career short.  So he was done at 30.
So like Moncrief, didn't have the longevity.
Might have been the first Point-Forward and coined the term.  Pretty fine UCLA career too. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on April 08, 2019, 05:04:39 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 07, 2019, 11:46:57 PM
Quote from: elephant on April 07, 2019, 09:50:22 PM
Mario's stock rising. Showing grit, tenacity and smarts.
... and turnovers.

I don't think NBA execs care much about these late season garbage games.
Delon Wright just put up a trip-dub.
Certainly useful for Zonja since he'll be looking for a contract and otherwise had a poor year.  Would a good team actually want him?

Well, I only know what I'm watching.

It's weird that he's actually running point, and weirder still that he's not bad at it.

I wasn't a great fan, but it's obvious he's playing better. Knicks have won a meager 16 games, but surprisingly, several of them have come directly from his play.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 08, 2019, 08:08:53 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 08, 2019, 12:30:37 AM
JimJam got some minutes v Utah.
5-11 FG, but now 0-11 on NBA 3's, which is why he's out there ...

I believe they will pick up his option.  Was tough to guard in the one stretch I saw.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 08, 2019, 10:25:13 AM
Detroit has Memphis and AT the Knicks.  Ultimate choke if they lose both

Miami gets Philly and AT Brooklyn

Charlotte has AT Cleveland and Orlando
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on April 08, 2019, 03:57:27 PM
Quote from: elephant on April 07, 2019, 09:50:22 PM
Mario's stock rising. Showing grit, tenacity and smarts.

His quotes on understanding why the young guys had to play were just as endearing as his play. He's not worth the money he's making, but I'd love him back as a 10th or 11th man type.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on April 08, 2019, 04:01:50 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 08, 2019, 12:29:31 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 07, 2019, 04:28:10 PM
Yeah.  I see the Basketball Hall of Very Good welcomed quite a few.

Well, no clear-cut HoFers, which probably helps the borderline cases.

Vlade.  Didn't strike me as a Hall player.  But maybe if you tack on his int'l career, plus exec work now, as a basketball lifer whose been involved in so many aspects.  Not bad for a guy who smoked 5 packs a day (I kid).

a) CWebb to me is a clear-cut HOFer to me
b) Vlade got in primarily on his international career, where voting is a lot more forgiving (as it is for college coaches, for example)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 09, 2019, 12:32:33 AM

I'd put CWebb in, but also no rush to do so.

CWebb put up strong numbers.  Was a very good passing Big.  But often seemed to come up short in big moments.
Without the knee injuries, he would have put up 20K points and clear HoF numbers.  But nearly 21 & 10 for a career is HoF.
He'll get in.

He has weird negatives:
- was taking money UM booster money since 8th grade
(UM W's when he was there have been voided from the records)
- the infamous timeout boner
- bailed on his first team GSW (as a #1 overall pick)
- lack of playoff success

Positive intangibles:
- the UM Fab Five were iconic -- brash, young, hip-hop
- brought sad SAC to prominence
- is an engaging announcing personality

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on April 09, 2019, 03:00:52 PM
very good final four game. don't judge a player on one game. 

Post had an article that made it sound like Durant is coming.  ( Maybe Irving as well)

IF true and clearly that is a big if NY needs to trade guaranteed deals like Thomas and Frank to free up money to keep Jordan.

NY then make biggest leap in NBA history.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 09, 2019, 03:08:12 PM
Quote from: Nagel on April 09, 2019, 03:00:52 PM
very good final four game. don't judge a player on one game. 

Post had an article that made it sound like Durant is coming.  ( Maybe Irving as well)

IF true and clearly that is a big if NY needs to trade guaranteed deals like Thomas and Frank to free up money to keep Jordan.

NY then make biggest leap in NBA history.

Lance Thomas can be cut and only count $1 million against the cap.   

DeAndre isn't worth losing Frank over.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 09, 2019, 04:13:09 PM
Quote from: Kam on April 09, 2019, 03:08:12 PM
Quote from: Nagel on April 09, 2019, 03:00:52 PM
very good final four game. don't judge a player on one game. 

Post had an article that made it sound like Durant is coming.  ( Maybe Irving as well)

IF true and clearly that is a big if NY needs to trade guaranteed deals like Thomas and Frank to free up money to keep Jordan.

NY then make biggest leap in NBA history.

Lance Thomas can be cut and only count $1 million against the cap.   

DeAndre isn't worth losing Frank over.

Nagel, to which final four game were you referring?

As it regards our offseason, I agree with Kam that letting Lance walk with his guarantee frees up more money at less cost than swapping Frank for a future draft pick. Swapping Frank for a current pick nets us even less space assuming we make the pick and sign the player. A Frank deal would have to be as much or more about the quality of the return as about any space created. I’m still bullish on him finding a sustainable offensive role that will keep him on the floor.
Title: DJ
Post by: Kam on April 09, 2019, 05:24:12 PM
I would pay DeAndre Jordan for a two year deal up to $10 mil per year with a player option for year 2.

I think he would accept that deal. 

It pays him enough to be respectable and he gets to play with his friend KD on a stacked team.

After that contract is up after 2 years with his bird rights we could go over the cap to re-sign him.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 09, 2019, 06:49:40 PM
Quote from: Kam on April 09, 2019, 03:08:12 PM


DeAndre isn't worth losing Frank over.

Heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 10, 2019, 03:38:55 AM
If you get two star FA's to sign, than DeAndretheGiant becomes much more important than neophyte Franc.   A 2/$10M is a bargain, if the money is available and he is willing.  And very trade-able.    I assume the 2nd year would be a player option.  But further assume he'd be looking for more like $10M +.  Average salary is now over $8M.

Magic disappears.
He lasted longer as an exec than he did as coach.
Putting the Lake front office in disarray just before a key Summer is questionable.  Much better if Magic was there recruiting FA's to join LBJ, and then afterwards quietly retires.  But I guess Magic doesn't do things quietly.  Likes the attention. 

I don't have a lot of criticism of individual moves, but building a team around LeBJ with lots of vets, lots of 1 year contracts, and not much outside shooting is questionable.  Of course if LeBJ didn't break down midseason, they'd likely be in the payoffs.

Magic traded Tangelo, but it was mostly to ditch Mozguy's contract, and they got Brook and a late draft pick (wisely used on Kuzma).  So a good return (maybe lucky on the pick, but luck counts).  And Tangelo not a good fit with LeBJ, and not with LeBJ and Ball.  Letting Brook go is harder to defend, since he signed for so little and had a great year in MIL.  But JaVale a reasonable substitute.  I didn't like trading Zubac for Muscala, or bringing TyC in.

Similar to the Tangelo trade, Lakes traded away Nance to move Clarkson's contract.  Which worked out since Kuzma is good.
Lakes drafted well under Magic: Ball, Kuzma, Hart, Wagner.
Fox might turn out better than Ball, but Ball still a solid pick.
Kuz & Hart nice very late 1st round picks.

Don't like the timing and suddenness of Magic bailing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 10, 2019, 03:40:23 AM
Q: Who has the most Win Shares among Rookies this season?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 10, 2019, 05:43:01 AM
LeBron, Ingram, Ball and Kuzma combine to play just 23 games together. L.A. goes 15-8 in those games.

Quote
Houston will be the No. 3 seed if Denver wins and the Portland Trail Blazers lose, but a Denver win combined with a Portland win will drop Houston to No. 4, with the Blazers clinching No. 3.  Houston Rockets will get No. 2 if the Nuggets lose

Timberwolves at Nuggets
Kings at Blazers

Both should win at Home.  So Rockettes might start off with the #4 seed, meeting a hot Utah team and being in the same bracket as GS for Round 2.  Utes don't really have a Harden stopper.   Royce is strong with size.  Crowder can take some turns.  And they can funnel Harden to Gobert.  Didn't Jazz pioneer the sit on Harden's left side and force him to drive?

As #3 seed, HOU would likely meet OKC.  A tougher 1st round team than Utah, I'd say.  But you avoid 2nd round with GS.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 10, 2019, 10:59:34 AM
Paul George drained that 3 last night like he wanted Blazers round 1.  Great play by Russ, Adams and PG off the Harden missed FT.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 10, 2019, 11:02:08 AM
PG rained praise on Westbrook after the game. 

"This is why I came back"

If only Knicks since departed star could have inspired such emotion in league stars.

K- peeee indeed.
Title: Jamal Crawford
Post by: Kam on April 10, 2019, 11:21:32 AM
Jamal Crawford with 51 off the bench.  Only player to score 50 for 4 franchises. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on April 10, 2019, 11:26:57 AM
Yep.  He and Jimmer combined for 51 last night.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 10, 2019, 12:57:39 PM
JIMMER!!!!!!

+7 with 4/1 assist/to

But you guys are right - he will never come back to the league

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on April 10, 2019, 01:05:31 PM
Nobody uses a straw man the way Kid uses a straw man.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 10, 2019, 02:09:00 PM
Jimmer will be schooling the young cats ahead of him on the depth chart with a full camp.   Definitely a rotation guy for '19-'20.

I dont dislike Okobo and Melton.  Fun team to keep an eye on, along with Kings.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 10, 2019, 02:10:05 PM
Meanwhile - really hope Knicks look to China for some summer league invitees.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 10, 2019, 03:08:08 PM
Quote
Jimmer will be schooling the young cats

As a GLeague developmental coach after a couple more spins in China.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 10, 2019, 10:20:29 PM
At least we’ve determined that Mario is not our future at the point.

A cluster fucked season is now in the books.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 11, 2019, 02:30:44 AM
JimJam got a 10-day contract.  Minimal commitment allowing PHX to take a look at a guy who scored a ton in the PRC.  Too bad DET didn't take a flyer on him,  the fact that Jimmer didn't make an NBA 3 didn't exactly help his case.  But who knows what PHX roster will look like next year.  They need shooting, but also a deferring ball handler.  Be good if he can use their facilities and play Summer League with PHX.  I'm not sure how these things work for a 30-year old vet.

Grayson Allen dropped 40 for UTA.  Didn't get much run this year.  So that's gotta feel real good.
 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 11, 2019, 03:07:34 AM
Every team with a .500 or better record made the playoffs; every team with a losing record left out.

Smart injury a killer for BOS.  They still should defeat IND, but I think that's enough to rescind having them beat MIL in the 2nd round.  He makes plays, provides energy and is their best defender.  Maybe BOS rallies, Kyrie goes nuts, or Playoff Rozier returns.  But looks like the decks clear for a MIL-TOR East final.
[Smelts over Buckaroos had been my East upset]

OKC 6th seed.  Get POR who they swept this year.  Much better than DEN who beat them I think all 4.

HOU @ 4.  Get a tough UTA team that plays D.  Then GSW next.  Followed by DEN/OKC.  Tough road.  The Rubio/CPS matchup could be key.  Also, Jingles play.  Neither team has a deep bench.
Should be a good series.  Winner gets GSW.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 11, 2019, 03:10:13 AM
Q: Who has the most Win Shares among Rookies this season?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 11, 2019, 08:05:43 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 11, 2019, 02:30:44 AM
JimJam got a 10-day contract. 


well.....not exactly

Made 198 k after signing 3/22.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 11, 2019, 08:06:41 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 11, 2019, 02:30:44 AM
Minimal commitment allowing PHX to take a look at a guy who scored a ton in the PRC. 



yes
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 11, 2019, 08:09:18 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 11, 2019, 02:30:44 AM
But who knows what PHX roster will look like next year. 


You're a smart guy - you can probably figure it out.  We can do it together if you wish.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 11, 2019, 08:15:48 AM
NBA playoff pool - 2 winners

a)  Pick each series - and keep your tally.  2 points for team picked correctly and 1 bonus for number of games (so if your team loses, you still pick the next series - pick as you go)

b)  Pick the bracket.  Most wins gets the hardware.

So for now -

- Give the 8 series winners and how many games it will take
- Pick the BRACKET

Series entries close when each series begins
Bracket picks close tipoff of playoff Game 1

Enjoy.

https://sportshub.cbsistatic.com/i/r/2019/04/11/b9f7490e-abd5-4923-b050-ffdb9889c73d/resize/670x377/4d0830f1b83fe68d71145e7786c73368/nbaplayoffbracket-041019.jpg
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 11, 2019, 09:27:58 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 11, 2019, 03:07:34 AM


Smart injury a killer for BOS.  They still should defeat IND, but I think that's enough to rescind having them beat MIL in the 2nd round.  He makes plays, provides energy and is their best defender.  Maybe BOS rallies, Kyrie goes nuts, or Playoff Rozier returns.  But looks like the decks clear for a MIL-TOR East final.
[Smelts over Buckaroos had been my East upset]


Heh

Now you are right either way

Nice
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 11, 2019, 09:30:33 AM
Key to Utah-Hou is MITCHELL, plain and simple.

No.  He will not get it done.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on April 11, 2019, 12:45:23 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on April 10, 2019, 01:05:31 PM
Nobody uses a straw man the way Kid uses a straw man.

Imagine gloating "He's Back!!!" after Jimmer looked like trash while playing garbage minutes for the worst team in the conference. Now imagine doing so without a hint of embarrassment.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 11, 2019, 12:56:00 PM
Well, I don't need to decide on a 2nd round matchup yet.
But now I'll likely take MIL, especially if Brogdon returns and Smart is out.  I had already planned to go bold with BOS over #1 MIL.  But Smart is really a key player for them.  And BOS never pulled things together.

As for PHX, I'm wondering what their backcourt will look like next year.  I assume they'll try to add a starting PG somehow.  Imagine they'd love to draft Ja Morant.

Looks like Suns have a crowded backcourt.
Tyler Johnson is going to opt-in for $19M
Okobo & Melton are signed for next year at Jimmer money. 
2nd round PG's don't usually amount to much.  And both shot 39% FG and 30% on 3's.  One or both might really be just an SG who can't shoot.  But they are young and have guaranteed contracts. 

Dev Book is the starting SG.
So that's 4 G's.

Troy Daniels should have inside track ahead of Jimmer, though could cost more.  But younger and knows the team/system.
So if they keep Daniels, that's 5 G's, with Jimmer hoping to be 6th.  There's also Craw, who also would compete with JimJam for vet bench scorer who doesn't defend.  Though you'd think Craw would want to be on a playoff team.  Not even sure why he was in PHX.

And I suspect PHX will try to draft or trade for a starting caliber PG.  Could always toss a Melton or Okobo into such a deal, but the backcourt numbers start adding up.  Okobo, Melton, Daniels make it hard to give a roster space to Jimmer.  Would they really let Daniels and Craw leave to keep JimJam.  Crowded backcourt without many proven options -- outside Booker.

If I were running PHX, Book, Ayton and at least one of Bridges/Uber would be my young core.  Everybody else would be expendable.  And I'd be working hard to figure out ways to get a young starting PG.  I'd want to re-sign Uber so you then could trade Bridges or Uber if needed.

Otherwise, I'd assume Bender is out.  Who knows if they sign Uber.  They might let him go and try to add a shooting F.  Add a wing who can can 3's and that would weigh against Jimmer.  Keeping Uber helps Jimmer's case.  Btw, I saw something last week that said Uber led the league in deflections (not sure where to find such a stat).

In 40 PHX games, Ube: 17 Pts, 5 Boards, 1.6 Ass, 1.4 Steals, 1 .0 blocks.  45 / 33 / 76 shooting splits.  4 FTA's.
Half a season on a crap team.  But he fit in and asserted himself.
Probably depends what Uber can command.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 11, 2019, 01:59:01 PM
http://theknickswall.com/contract-year-knicks-who-deserves-to-be-re-signed/ (http://theknickswall.com/contract-year-knicks-who-deserves-to-be-re-signed/)

I’m on board with Kornet and Allen as keepers.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 11, 2019, 02:28:20 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on April 11, 2019, 12:45:23 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on April 10, 2019, 01:05:31 PM
Nobody uses a straw man the way Kid uses a straw man.

Imagine gloating "He's Back!!!" after Jimmer looked like trash while playing garbage minutes for the worst team in the conference. Now imagine doing so without a hint of embarrassment.

Played well, actually.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 11, 2019, 02:31:48 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/poststar.com/sports/jimmer-fredette-enjoying-return-to-nba-u-s/article_7512b21b-8594-5efd-9b36-a0ae389b54d2.amp.html
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 11, 2019, 02:35:03 PM
Jimmer chimes in on St Johns job

https://twitter.com/jimmerfredette/status/1116317255283773445?s=20
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 11, 2019, 03:55:46 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 11, 2019, 02:28:20 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on April 11, 2019, 12:45:23 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on April 10, 2019, 01:05:31 PM
Nobody uses a straw man the way Kid uses a straw man.

Imagine gloating "He's Back!!!" after Jimmer looked like trash while playing garbage minutes for the worst team in the conference. Now imagine doing so without a hint of embarrassment.

Played well, actually.

Jimmer crushed it.

Shot .278 overall and .000 on over 2 threes a game while playing his usual stellar defense. That’s why he got so much run, 10 minutes a game.

Big 3 or overseas for not so young Jimmer.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jerrya on April 11, 2019, 05:30:30 PM
It's over, but how can you rationally explain this.   We are one of the biggest markets in the league and we finish with the worse record...can't believe it.  Something has got to change.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 11, 2019, 06:38:10 PM
There are many twists and turns on the road from sucking to not sucking. It’s also taken us an incredibly long time to decide on an actual tear down rather than a patch up job on the roster.

There’s no guarantee the next moves will trend is back toward competitive basketball let alone contention, but we have a lot of options now.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 11, 2019, 07:16:22 PM
I could give you a guarantee with a different coach - and there will be some good ones available.  6-8 spot next year. with the right guy.   Could Fiz do it?  I'd be surprised but content.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 11, 2019, 08:15:10 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 11, 2019, 12:56:00 PM
Well, I don't need to decide on a 2nd round matchup yet.
But now I'll likely take MIL, especially if Brogdon returns and Smart is out.  I had already planned to go bold with BOS over #1 MIL.  But Smart is really a key player for them.  And BOS never pulled things together.

As for PHX, I'm wondering what their backcourt will look like next year.  I assume they'll try to add a starting PG somehow.  Imagine they'd love to draft Ja Morant.

Looks like Suns have a crowded backcourt.
Tyler Johnson is going to opt-in for $19M
Okobo & Melton are signed for next year at Jimmer money. 
2nd round PG's don't usually amount to much.  And both shot 39% FG and 30% on 3's.  One or both might really be just an SG who can't shoot.  But they are young and have guaranteed contracts. 

Dev Book is the starting SG.
So that's 4 G's.

Troy Daniels should have inside track ahead of Jimmer, though could cost more.  But younger and knows the team/system.
So if they keep Daniels, that's 5 G's, with Jimmer hoping to be 6th.  There's also Craw, who also would compete with JimJam for vet bench scorer who doesn't defend.  Though you'd think Craw would want to be on a playoff team.  Not even sure why he was in PHX.

And I suspect PHX will try to draft or trade for a starting caliber PG.  Could always toss a Melton or Okobo into such a deal, but the backcourt numbers start adding up.  Okobo, Melton, Daniels make it hard to give a roster space to Jimmer.  Would they really let Daniels and Craw leave to keep JimJam.  Crowded backcourt without many proven options -- outside Booker.

If I were running PHX, Book, Ayton and at least one of Bridges/Uber would be my young core.  Everybody else would be expendable.  And I'd be working hard to figure out ways to get a young starting PG.  I'd want to re-sign Uber so you then could trade Bridges or Uber if needed.

Otherwise, I'd assume Bender is out.  Who knows if they sign Uber.  They might let him go and try to add a shooting F.  Add a wing who can can 3's and that would weigh against Jimmer.  Keeping Uber helps Jimmer's case.  Btw, I saw something last week that said Uber led the league in deflections (not sure where to find such a stat).

In 40 PHX games, Ube: 17 Pts, 5 Boards, 1.6 Ass, 1.4 Steals, 1 .0 blocks.  45 / 33 / 76 shooting splits.  4 FTA's.
Half a season on a crap team.  But he fit in and asserted himself.
Probably depends what Uber can command.

I project Oubre to be a Sun, as they will match even if it is stupid money (bird in hand).  Gone are  Bender - and Daniels - and very likely Crawford.

I agree Suns seek a court general.  And Marant would be perfect.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 11, 2019, 08:18:40 PM
Marant, Booker, Jackson, Warren, Ayton

Bridges, Johnson (1 year), Oubre, add a big, add another

Jimmer and whoever........
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 11, 2019, 08:19:15 PM
Also would not discount Jimmer being in a deal.
Title: Deal
Post by: carlos123 on April 11, 2019, 09:33:38 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 11, 2019, 08:19:15 PM
Also would not discount Jimmer being in a deal.

Trade proposal, just to make Chico happy ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...  ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...  ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...  ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...  ... ... ... ... ... 

... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...  ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...  ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...  ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...  ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...

JIMMER FOR OUR #1
(https://clutchpoints.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Zion-Williamson.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 11, 2019, 09:59:34 PM
Will never again be a Knick.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on April 11, 2019, 11:04:11 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 11, 2019, 07:16:22 PM
Could Fiz do it?  I'd be surprised but content.

I'd be very surprised. No reason to wait and find out. Hire Joerger this very evening would be the move.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 12, 2019, 02:06:15 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 11, 2019, 09:59:34 PM
Will never again be a Knick.

 A healthy sign that management is improving.

He might be able to get a spot on the Washington Generals if he wants to stay in the US.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 12, 2019, 04:04:53 AM
I seem to be the only one who liked how Fizz managed minutes and checked out what everybody could do, while managing the tank quite effectively.  Sure it means that he'll have to start over implementing a system on both ends and setting up roles and rotations.  But he'll be doing it with the addition of a Top 5 draftee, and likely at least one relatively high-profile FA.  Plus with the benefit of knowing what Mitch and Mud, Dot and Trier, Kornet and Vonleh are capable of.

I thought it was a productive year, except for the KZ fiasco.
Unless we get Zion or two top-level FA's -- both long-shots -- we'll still be a young developing team, with zero reason to change coaches.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 12, 2019, 04:16:39 AM
On a per minute (or per 36, if you prefer) basis, Uber finished 2nd in deflections (3.9 per 36 mins).  Behind Noel. 

Per game, Uber tied with Jimmy Butler for 9th, just slightly behind Dray, Kawhi, Westbrook . . .

        Deflections            Per Game
1.   Paul George    OKC   3.8
2.   James Harden HOU   3.6
3.   Chris Paul       HOU   3.3
4.   Dray Green     GSW   3.2
4.   Kawhi Leonard TOR   3.2
4.   Thad Young     IND   3.2
7.   Jrue Holiday    NOP   3.1
7.   Russ Westbrook OKC   3.1
9.   Jimmy Butler    PHI   3.0
9.   Kelly Oubre Jr.  PHX   3.0

The two surprises in the Top 10 would be Uber and Harden.
Uber he only young guy in there.  Harden's rank probably largely reflects how many times opponents attacked him.  Think I saw that he was posted up more than any other player.  But he's strong and solid at individual post defense.  And I did see him poke the ball away from bigger guys a fair amount.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 12, 2019, 04:22:08 AM
Here's a stat I like:

     Contested Threes     Per Game
1.   Dray Green     GSW   4.8
1.   Pascal Siakam TOR   4.8
3.   Jrue Holiday    NOP   4.5
4.   Andrew Wiggins MIN   4.4
4.   Thad Young      IND   4.4
6.   Marcus Smart   BOS   4.3
6.   Derrick White   SAS   4.3
8.   John Collins      ATL   4.2
8.   Paul George     OKC   4.2
8.   Jayson Tatum   BOS   4.2

Mostly F's, with Jrue, Smart and White in there as well.  Nice to see young Collins up there.
On a per36 basis, Mitch Rob ties for 4th with Smart and Bagley.
Mitch did some mighty fine long-armed perimeter close-outs.
Might have led the league in blocking 3 point attempts.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on April 12, 2019, 04:59:29 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 12, 2019, 02:06:15 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 11, 2019, 09:59:34 PM
Will never again be a Knick.

 A healthy sign that management is improving.

He might be able to get a spot on the Washington Generals if he wants to stay in the US.

My hats off to you, Fac, for your consistent hilarity when dealing with Kid's Jimmer fantasies.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on April 12, 2019, 05:00:14 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 12, 2019, 04:22:08 AM
Here's a stat I like:

     Contested Threes     Per Game
1.   Dray Green     GSW   4.8
1.   Pascal Siakam TOR   4.8
3.   Jrue Holiday    NOP   4.5
4.   Andrew Wiggins MIN   4.4
4.   Thad Young      IND   4.4
6.   Marcus Smart   BOS   4.3
6.   Derrick White   SAS   4.3
8.   John Collins      ATL   4.2
8.   Paul George     OKC   4.2
8.   Jayson Tatum   BOS   4.2

Mostly F's, with Jrue, Smart and White in there as well.  Nice to see young Collins up there.
On a per36 basis, Mitch Rob ties for 4th with Smart and Bagley.
Mitch did some mighty fine long-armed perimeter close-outs.
Might have led the league in blocking 3 point attempts.

Interesting that, save for Wiggins and Collins and Tatum, everyone of these players is known a great, not good, defender.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on April 12, 2019, 05:12:01 AM
If I get, I don't know, at least two other people to play (DM me) I'll keep score for this playoff points-only pool:



$7: Giannis, Curry, KD

$6: Harden, Kawhi, Embiid, PG13

$5: Klay, Lillard, Jokic, Kyrie, Butler

$4: Mitchell, Tobias, Middleton, J Murray, Westbrook, McConnell

$3: Bojan, B Simmons, Lowry, Bledsoe, CP3, Siakam, Draymond

$2: Derozan, Aldridge, D’Angelo, Capela, Sweet Lou, JJ Redick, Adams, Tatum

$1: Everyone else

 

$25 to spend on six players. After each round you can replace that player with a different one however the cost of a player goes up by $1 every time his team wins a round (ie, if the Rockets lose in the first round and the Sixers win, you can replace Harden with Embiid). You also substitute their total points as well (so you don’t keep the points of the guys you draft initially, only of those who you have in the end).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 12, 2019, 08:12:37 AM
Moving pool to NBA forum

Points pool - 2 points per series win + 1 bonus point for correct games - pick as you go

Bracket pool - 1 point for each win.  Must fill out bracket entirely before tip of Game 1
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 12, 2019, 09:54:45 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 12, 2019, 04:16:39 AM
On a per minute (or per 36, if you prefer) basis, Uber finished 2nd in deflections (3.9 per 36 mins).  Behind Noel. 

Per game, Uber tied with Jimmy Butler for 9th, just slightly behind Dray, Kawhi, Westbrook . . .

        Deflections            Per Game
1.   Paul George    OKC   3.8
2.   James Harden HOU   3.6
3.   Chris Paul       HOU   3.3
4.   Dray Green     GSW   3.2
4.   Kawhi Leonard TOR   3.2
4.   Thad Young     IND   3.2
7.   Jrue Holiday    NOP   3.1
7.   Russ Westbrook OKC   3.1
9.   Jimmy Butler    PHI   3.0
9.   Kelly Oubre Jr.  PHX   3.0

The two surprises in the Top 10 would be Uber and Harden.
Uber he only young guy in there.  Harden's rank probably largely reflects how many times opponents attacked him.  Think I saw that he was posted up more than any other player.  But he's strong and solid at individual post defense.  And I did see him poke the ball away from bigger guys a fair amount.

Thanks.  I love the deflection stat.  Was charting them back in the early 80s.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 12, 2019, 09:56:22 AM
Harden, along with Oubre, is also a bit of a gamble defender.

Do they describe what constitutes a deflection?
Title: Throw this perfume counter salesman out on his ass...
Post by: lesterluv on April 12, 2019, 11:04:19 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 12, 2019, 04:04:53 AM
I seem to be the only one who liked how Fizz managed minutes and checked out what everybody could do, while managing the tank quite effectively.  Sure it means that he'll have to start over implementing a system on both ends and setting up roles and rotations.  But he'll be doing it with the addition of a Top 5 draftee, and likely at least one relatively high-profile FA.  Plus with the benefit of knowing what Mitch and Mud, Dot and Trier, Kornet and Vonleh are capable of.

I thought it was a productive year, except for the KZ fiasco.
Unless we get Zion or two top-level FA's -- both long-shots -- we'll still be a young developing team, with zero reason to change coaches.

Well I'm glad you enjoyed it. To me, a complete waste with absolutely nothing gained that couldn't have been done way better by someone else. 100 reasons to change coaches. Implemented zero system or culture. Offensively, defensively, nothing whatsoever to see.Totally unlike what successful coaches like Stevens or Atkinson did in ground up situations. Was great article recently on Spurs young player development, best in the league, polar opposite to Fakewhale's approach. Random buckets of minutes amidst summer leaguers do not improve players ability to learn winning ball and any improvement over what could have been expected was negligible. Random crunch time assignments to fresh-off the bus g-leaguers not a positive. You start practicing how to handle game situations on day 1. Fiz's approach was unbelievably corrosive to fandom, despite a Garden still full nightly with package tourists. I can't count on two hands the number of longtime committed fan friends I have who totally checked out in disgust; really, the games were unwatchable. And going a different way, the tank could still have easily been managed — with the new rules, another handful of big chunk of wins wouldn't have meant a sig difference in the moonshot. We win 10 more games? Our chances of Zion drop from 14 to 12.5 percent, lol, and of a top-3 from 40 to 37 percent. And whereever you end up — with Zion not the least bit likely — you gotta stick the pick. One of the worst Knick coaching jobs I've ever seen, and I've been through a lot of bad ones.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 12, 2019, 11:05:44 AM
".......except for the KZ fiasco"

Too fucking funny.

A catastrophe is what it was.  Go back and read the posts from last fall.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 12, 2019, 11:08:04 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on April 12, 2019, 05:12:01 AM
If I get, I don't know, at least two other people to play (DM me) I'll keep score for this playoff points-only pool:



$7: Giannis, Curry, KD

$6: Harden, Kawhi, Embiid, PG13

$5: Klay, Lillard, Jokic, Kyrie, Butler

$4: Mitchell, Tobias, Middleton, J Murray, Westbrook, McConnell

$3: Bojan, B Simmons, Lowry, Bledsoe, CP3, Siakam, Draymond

$2: Derozan, Aldridge, D’Angelo, Capela, Sweet Lou, JJ Redick, Adams, Tatum

$1: Everyone else

 

$25 to spend on six players. After each round you can replace that player with a different one however the cost of a player goes up by $1 every time his team wins a round (ie, if the Rockets lose in the first round and the Sixers win, you can replace Harden with Embiid). You also substitute their total points as well (so you don’t keep the points of the guys you draft initially, only of those who you have in the end).

Sure, I will play
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 12, 2019, 11:09:49 AM
Cant replace Harden with Embiid, right?  His price would then be 7 with the increase
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 12, 2019, 11:10:14 AM
$1 guys could be key
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 12, 2019, 11:17:37 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 12, 2019, 09:56:22 AM
Harden, along with Oubre, is also a bit of a gamble defender.

Do they describe what constitutes a deflection?

Westbrook very much a gamble defender.

I got those stats from NBA.com.
https://stats.nba.com/players/hustle-leaders/
The whole page is full of interesting stats
Not sure how they define deflections.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 12, 2019, 11:43:07 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 12, 2019, 11:05:44 AM
".......except for the KZ fiasco"

Too fucking funny.
A catastrophe is what it was.  Go back and read the posts from last fall.

I can't decode this at all.

Fiasco -- a complete failure, especially a ludicrous or humiliating one.
synonyms:  failure · disaster · catastrophe · debacle · shambles · farce · ruination · 

Does that help?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 12, 2019, 11:48:16 AM
PRODUCTIVE YEAR is where you went astray.  You cannot HAVE that with the FIASCO, CATASTROPHE imbedded.

"Wait til you see this guy play with KP"

Heh

Too funny.

KP and Knicks future was not all that.  I recall being the lone voice.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 12, 2019, 11:49:55 AM
I dont think the Putzicorn will be making any friends across the league while playing with Mavs.  He's a prick, pure and simple.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on April 12, 2019, 12:36:32 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 12, 2019, 11:09:49 AM
Cant replace Harden with Embiid, right?  His price would then be 7 with the increase

Argh! I had switched Giannis and Harden after Houston fell in Golden State's side of the bracket and forgot to edit the rules. I meant to say "(ie, if the Bucks lose in the first round and the Sixers win, you can replace Giannis with Embiid)". Good catch.

Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 12, 2019, 11:10:14 AM
$1 guys could be key

If you can find a decent one, more power to you. But you can't sub them out for active players given the rule about prices increasing with each playoff round.


Anyhow, if one more plays, I'll keep score. Fac, Carlos, and Kam have played similar games in the past.

I will spend my $25 on:
PG Curry (7)
SG Westbrook (4)
SF Durant (7)
PF Siakam (3)
C Capela (2)
6th Adams (2)

(You don't actually have to have positions, I'm just being silly)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 12, 2019, 12:57:22 PM
Win 3 more games and worse case scenario goes from #5 to #7 pick; win 6 more games and 8th pick could loom.
If we were going to be bad and have a roster of rooks and reclamations, I like finishing dead last.  A lot of Knick L's were close games, at least in the first half of the season.  Competitive losses.

Unfortunately, Knix chose to tank in the first year in which the benefits are reduced (worse lotto odds, and only Top 5 guarantee instead of Top 4).  And it's said to be a weak draft.  But I'm glad we're adding a Top 5 pick.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 12, 2019, 12:59:05 PM
Most Win Shares by a Rookie in 2018-19:
M. Robinson (6.1)
D. Ayton (5.8)
L. Doncic (4.9)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on April 12, 2019, 01:05:12 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 12, 2019, 12:57:22 PM
Win 3 more games and worse case scenario goes from #5 to #7 pick; win 6 more games and 8th pick could loom.
If we were going to be bad and have a roster of rooks and reclamations, I like finishing dead last.  A lot of Knick L's were close games, at least in the first half of the season.  Competitive losses.

Unfortunately, Knix chose to tank in the first year in which the benefits are reduced (worse lotto odds, and only Top 5 guarantee instead of Top 4).  And it's said to be a weak draft.  But I'm glad we're adding a Top 5 pick.

Yes, worst case scenario does go from 5 to 8, but you gotta stick the pick there anyway. There's no unfortunately Knicks chose to tank in the first year with benefits reduced, there's no fortune in it, wasn't an accident, as was well known beforehand - we made a stupid choice, more idiocy from a franchise that is doing its best to monopolize idiocy.

You must be bored as fuck in China if you enjoyed watching that shit because NOBODY i know here did. And the damage done....massive. You like finishing dead last, well, glad it felt good to you. Coach showed me, zip, nada good, and whole heap of suck.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 12, 2019, 01:24:43 PM
17 W's.  27 W's.  Not much difference to me.  I'll take the higher pick, thank you.

I liked watching a lot of young guys and castoffs show their stuff.
Thought lots of Knix did well individually.
Mitch, Mud, Vonleh.  Trier, Dot, Knox, Kornet were more up and down, but shined at times.  Even Kadeem was fun to watch and pull for.  I didn't get a good look at Smith Jr.  Without caring about W's, I liked this season more than any of the last 5 or so losing seasons. 

Jettisoning Tim Jr was a minor plus too.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 12, 2019, 01:29:20 PM
Hey, Biz, isn't it time to roll out the start of the year Knick win predictions?  So we can all laugh at Chip picking a winning record for the 10th consecutive year . . .
Title: Buying lotto tickets to fund your retirement.
Post by: lesterluv on April 12, 2019, 02:01:37 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 12, 2019, 01:24:43 PM
I liked watching a lot of young guys and castoffs show their stuff.

I like watching chickens thrash about for 5 or 8 seconds after their heads have been cut off — basically what was going on out there most of the time...oh wait, I don't like, at all.

Quote
17 W's.  27 W's.  Not much difference to me.  I'll take the higher pick, thank you.

Lol, lol, You don't have a higher pick, you have a TINY CHANCE at a higher pick. 17 W's with nothing built. 27W's with something built. MASSIVE DIFFERENCE TO ME.  I'll go with the higher W's and a 1.5 percent smaller chance of Zion, thank you very much.

REPRISE: 10 more wins..chance of a top three pick moves from 40 to 37 percent.

* I'm right there with you on THJ however
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 12, 2019, 02:57:18 PM
KL, PG13, D Mitchell, Ben Simmons, DeRozan, Enes one buck Kanter is my $25

I enjoyed watching this team almost as much as the squad we blew up for Melo and the moldy-oldie ECF team that ran aground on Mt. Hibbert. Other than those two years, this was the most watchable for me in the last dozen.

No Mudiay or Hardaway or Kanter will make for a better product next year.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on April 12, 2019, 03:49:02 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 12, 2019, 01:29:20 PM
Hey, Biz, isn't it time to roll out the start of the year Knick win predictions?  So we can all laugh at Chip picking a winning record for the 10th consecutive year . . .

I believe we lost them in the great Elba flood of 2018, no? Will have a look.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on April 12, 2019, 04:17:18 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on April 12, 2019, 03:49:02 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 12, 2019, 01:29:20 PM
Hey, Biz, isn't it time to roll out the start of the year Knick win predictions?  So we can all laugh at Chip picking a winning record for the 10th consecutive year . . .

I believe we lost them in the great Elba flood of 2018, no? Will have a look.

I think I missed the total wins by 1 👍
Title: Re: Knicks Picks
Post by: bodiddley on April 13, 2019, 03:18:37 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 19, 2018, 04:39:31 PM
Just back from vacation.

Quote from: thebizneverloses on October 17, 2018, 01:40:31 PM
Los 20
Les 21
[Bo 23]
Biz 23
Ade 23
Bank 24
Nagel 25
Zup 30
Yank 30
Ike 31
J Straw 31
Early 32
Chip 33
Kam 33
Fac 34
Klint 36

We started a list earlier.
I was the first with some real low number and Carlos immediately undercut me.  I forget what exactly I chose (21?), but I'll go with the rather popular 23.  We won't win much, KZ might sit out longer than expected, but there are a lot of equally bad or worse teams out there (including ATL), and these Knix at least have energy and youth. 

Trier is interesting and confident.
How did Vonleh look?  His box impresses in short minutes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 13, 2019, 03:37:35 AM
So Los & Les were closest.  Good job.
Then the 23 W brigade.

My pick was 23, though I meant to strategically choose 22 to slot into that virgin territory.  But got back from Italy/Slovenia/San Marino after the first game, so rushed my pick.  I thought 20-27 W's was the range.

The lowest Win totals were still over what the Knix "accomplished."  Knix embraced tanking and of course KZ never existed.  The optimists were the 30+ Win crowd. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 13, 2019, 04:25:59 AM
I did not realize how brilliant “getting Mudiay right” was for the tank or that we’d really give Enes the opportunity to go out and get his numbers (Portland helps him in ways we simply could not. He should re-sign there).

I thought we’d win more, but I never thought we be so asset rich and commitment light heading into the summer.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 13, 2019, 04:27:28 AM
Who has less distance to go from how they played for us this season, Dennis Smith or Alonzo Trier?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on April 13, 2019, 07:53:40 AM
I predict both DSJ and Trier will be gone next year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 13, 2019, 08:14:47 AM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on October 17, 2018, 08:32:15 PM
Ok.  If we lose tonight....

14-68

heh

........
Title: Let the Back-Patting Commence
Post by: bodiddley on April 13, 2019, 10:11:13 AM
More great predictions to start the season:

Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 17, 2018, 09:20:36 AM
Porzingis will return by MLK Day

Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 17, 2018, 10:30:42 AM
Fultz is 20 years, 5 months old - and will be with Philly another 6-7 years at least
No rush.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 13, 2019, 10:37:08 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 13, 2019, 08:11:53 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 12, 2019, 11:08:04 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on April 12, 2019, 05:12:01 AM
If I get, I don't know, at least two other people to play (DM me) I'll keep score for this playoff points-only pool:



$7: Giannis, Curry, KD

$6: Harden, Kawhi, Embiid, PG13

$5: Klay, Lillard, Jokic, Kyrie, Butler

$4: Mitchell, Tobias, Middleton, J Murray, Westbrook, McConnell

$3: Bojan, B Simmons, Lowry, Bledsoe, CP3, Siakam, Draymond

$2: Derozan, Aldridge, D’Angelo, Capela, Sweet Lou, JJ Redick, Adams, Tatum

$1: Everyone else

 

$25 to spend on six players. After each round you can replace that player with a different one however the cost of a player goes up by $1 every time his team wins a round (ie, if the Rockets lose in the first round and the Sixers win, you can replace Harden with Embiid). You also substitute their total points as well (so you don’t keep the points of the guys you draft initially, only of those who you have in the end).

Sure, I will play

OK, first round picks for BIZ playoff pool:

Curry - 7
Harden - 6
Kyrie - 5
Mitchell - 4
Russell - 2
Ibaka - 1

Just noticed you have Curry, so I will change it up,

Revised pool picks

HARDEN
KAWHI
KYRIE
BUTLER
RUSSELL
IBAKA
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on April 13, 2019, 12:49:31 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on April 13, 2019, 07:53:40 AM
I predict both DSJ and Trier will be gone next year.

I'm predicting that Mudiay is the backup for either Kemba or Kyrie. But I'm a lot less confident in that happening than I was before the Clippers won the trade deadline.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 13, 2019, 02:05:38 PM
I’ve got Kawhi, though I don’t remember player replication being ruled out in this contest.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on April 13, 2019, 02:17:00 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 13, 2019, 02:05:38 PM
I’ve got Kawhi, though I don’t remember player replication being ruled out in this contest.

Not ruled out.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on April 13, 2019, 03:50:25 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 13, 2019, 03:37:35 AM
So Los & Les were closest.  Good job.
Then the 23 W brigade.

Yeah, I believe Los came in with a savvy last minute undercut. Was pretty positive KP wasn't going to play much or at all, not with his contract situation and our tank ambitions. I failed to anticipate, however, just how relentless the tank would be, or the abject refusal of Fiz to even pretend to assemble a functioning squad.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on April 13, 2019, 04:02:37 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on April 13, 2019, 03:50:25 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 13, 2019, 03:37:35 AM
So Los & Les were closest.  Good job.
Then the 23 W brigade.

Yeah, I believe Los came in with a savvy last minute undercut. Was pretty positive KP wasn't going to play much or at all, not with his contract situation and our tank ambitions. I failed to anticipate, however, just how relentless the tank would be, or the abject refusal of Fiz to even pretend to assemble a functioning squad.

I originally went for 22. When Les undercut me I moved down to 20. I thought the numbers were 20 and 18, but even I couldn’t see how bad this team was gonna be.

OTOH, I don’t think Fizzy was trying to tank. He’s just incompetent. Would be nice if we fought off Sacramento for Walton. Nah ... ain’t gonna happen.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 13, 2019, 04:19:44 PM
As we usually demonstrate almost every year, pretending to assemble a functioning squad fucks up a tank.

My top 5 at the moment are Zion, Morant, then Culver, Clark, and Hunter tied for 3rd.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 13, 2019, 07:00:09 PM
The Netizens.
I noted Embiid is moving poorly on a bum knee.
Had trouble changing ends in Wade's final Home game.
And read that PHI has been awful against penetrating PG's.
Which Embiid's knee makes worse.

Add to all that, PHI's iffy bench, and Simmons inability to shoot, and they are a shaky playoff team.  Nice to see Nets plan to make it a series.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 13, 2019, 07:44:31 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on April 13, 2019, 04:02:37 PM
I don’t think Fizzy was trying to tank. He’s just incompetent. Would be nice if we fought off Sacramento for Walton. Nah ... ain’t gonna happen.

Not the time to change coaches.
It was a clear tank form early on.
Everybody got to start, tons of different combos, etc.
Competitive losses was the mandate fulfilled.

And Luke unlikely to come to NYK after how Phil was ousted and how he was nixed from a weirdly constructed team in the other media center. 

SAC shouldn't have let Joerger go really.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on April 13, 2019, 10:19:40 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 13, 2019, 07:44:31 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on April 13, 2019, 04:02:37 PM
I don’t think Fizzy was trying to tank. He’s just incompetent. Would be nice if we fought off Sacramento for Walton. Nah ... ain’t gonna happen.

Not the time to change coaches.
It was a clear tank form early on.
Everybody got to start, tons of different combos, etc.
Competitive losses was the mandate fulfilled.

And Luke unlikely to come to NYK after how Phil was ousted and how he was nixed from a weirdly constructed team in the other media center. 

SAC shouldn't have let Joerger go really.

(https://www.nydailynews.com/resizer/eFGiPvKq76y0mS6wD5bXNn9HNa4=/1400x0/www.trbimg.com/img-5be5dfc9/turbine/ny-1541791683-fufdsb1qvu-snap-image)
After pissing off Kristaps Porzingis, Knicks coach David Fizdale reaches out to his injured star to make things right.
(https://chumley.barstoolsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/16/gif.gif)
MASTER OF OFFENSE AND DEFENSE
(https://www.doubleclutch.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Fizdale.jpg)
Managed players so as to attract every free agent to NY.
(https://thenypost.files.wordpress.com/2019/02/deandre-jordan-2.jpg?quality=90&strip=all)
DNP DNP DNP DNP DNP ...
(https://cdn.newsday.com/polopoly_fs/1.29682344.1555028722!/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_768/image.jpg)
COACH'S DECISION
       (https://sportshub.cbsistatic.com/i/r/2017/08/16/bb9d93bc-6378-4a71-8eb4-52bd53333238/resize/770x575/89e25ea883daf91342b8824f57e0fc93/george.gif)

WHATEVER
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on April 13, 2019, 10:32:44 PM
The artist at work:)

I love this whole idea of competitive losses the perfume salesmen has tried to sell.

We have a f'ing -9.2 point differential. Right down there with the other 2 garbage dwellers.

Let's put that in perspective. That's worse than the 2009 Nets team that won 12 games.

Nothing remotely competitive about this team.

If you can hire an actual coach, you do so immediately, of course.

You don't waste another millisecond teaching youngsters crap.


** Q: Anyone think Bryn Forbes and Derrick White could've been doing what they were doing last night if they were "developed" by FizDale?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 14, 2019, 05:01:47 AM
First 10 games:

DATE   OPPONENT   RESULT   W-L   
Thu, Oct 18 vs Atlanta      W126-107    1-0   
Sat, Oct 20 @Brooklyn      L107-105     1-1   
Sun, Oct 21 vs Boston       L103-101    1-2

Tue, Oct 23 @ Milwauk      L124-113    1-3
  [game was tied 110-all with 3:42 left]
   
Thu, Oct 25 @ Miami         L110-87      1-4   
  [2 Pt game at halftime, blown out in 3Q]

Sat, Oct 27 v GoldenState   L128-100    1-5
Tue, Oct 30  vs  Brooklyn    W115-96     2-5   
Thu, Nov 1 vs Indiana        L107-101     2-6   
   [Knix up 1 with 2:59 left] 
Sat, Nov 3   @ Dallas           W118-106     3-6
Mon, Nov 5 @ Washington  L108-95     3-7
  [tied 84-all with 9 mins left]

First 7 Losses:
3 close losses
1 3Q meltdown
1 4Q meltdown + 1 last 4 min meltdown
1 blowout L v GS

Matches what I recall from early in the season.  Knix with competitive/even 1st Halves, then falling apart in the 3Q (or 4Q).
2 Pt loss to BOS on 2nd game of B2B;  tied with under 4 mins left @MIL; up 1 w/ 3 mins left to IND.  For a young team with a roster of nobodaddies, I'd call that 6 competitive Ls' and just one blowout to the League's best team in the opening 10 games.

More in the series to follow . . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 14, 2019, 06:45:11 AM
http://www.thestepien.com/2019/04/13/nba-notes-transition-basketball-orlando-trouble-toronto/ (http://www.thestepien.com/2019/04/13/nba-notes-transition-basketball-orlando-trouble-toronto/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on April 14, 2019, 08:55:49 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 14, 2019, 05:01:47 AM
First 10 games .....

More in the series to follow . . .

LOL, yeah, like 72 more games in the series to follow, the whole fucking season.

Those were the best 10 games by far.
Ntilikina started all of them, no surprise.
Kanter started first 5 and 20 plus minutes in all five that followed.
Shortly thereafter the season became an acid nightmare.

-9.2 doesn't lie.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 14, 2019, 08:58:02 AM
Nice effort by Jamal "better than Mudiay" Murray last night
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on April 14, 2019, 10:11:21 AM
Heh.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 14, 2019, 10:28:06 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on April 14, 2019, 08:55:49 AM
-9.2 doesn't lie.

Doesn't tell you much either, without context.
You lose 65 games you're gonna be underwater.
Some final scores don't reflect how competitive the game was:


Tue, Oct 23 @ Milwaukee    L124-113    1-3
  [game was tied 110-all with 3:42 left]
   
Mon, Nov 5 @ Washington  L108-95     3-7
  [tied 84-all with 9 mins left]

An 11 & a 13 Point loss which the Knix were right in until a late collapse.  Competitive losses without good final scores.
Just two examples.  Which you're all-in-one useless stat doesn't address well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on April 14, 2019, 11:16:59 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 14, 2019, 10:28:06 AM
Which you're all-in-one useless stat doesn't address well.

lol, 10,000,000x. You are straining and struggling so hard this morning.

my all-in-one usesless stat. You're killing me. Really.

Point differential is the most significant and undeniable indicator with which God has gifted humankind.

But keep on keeping on as much as you like. :)


** You don't like that one, choose another one. Maybe you like this one. NBA Clutch, defined as w/i +/- 5 pts last five minutes. We had 34 such game situations, 1 above LEAST in the league and our performance in them was WORST IN THE LEAGUE.  If you don't like that one, just go back to your rosy memories of all those valiantly hard fought battles from late October.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 14, 2019, 01:16:09 PM
The Ballad of Les and the Ever-Closed Mind.

Not sure if anyone else cares, and you're obviously (as always) a waste of time to engage with.  I guess that's just how things are these days -- no one ever changes their mind and no one is ever wrong.

So this is starting to feel like a big waste of time:

Games 11-20:

DATE   OPPONENT   RESULT    W-L   

Tue, Nov 6 vs Chicago    L116-115 2OT  3-8
Thu, Nov 8 @ Atlanta        W112-107     4-8

Sun, Nov 11@Toronto       L128-112     4-9
 [down by one 3 mins into the 3Q]
Mon, Nov 12 vs Orlando    L115-89    4-10
   [smoked by 20 in 1Q]   
Thu, Nov 15 @OK City       L128-103     4-11
   [down 15 after 1Q]
   
Sat, Nov 17 @ New Orleans L129-124      4-12
   [Knix led entire game until under 3 mins left]   
Mon, Nov 19 @ Orlando      L131-117      4-13
   [3 Pt game with 9:40 left]
Wed, Nov 21 vs Portland     L118-114      4-14   
   [Knix led almost all 3Q]
Thu, Nov 22 @ Boston        W117-109      5-14   
Sat, Nov 24 vs New Orleans W114-109   6-14

So another 3-7 sequence:
3 Wins (inc. BOS)
3 Close Losses (2 OT CHI); @NO; POR
= 6 Close, Competitive Games
2 Losses competitive until a 3Q & a 4Q breakdown
2 Blowouts losses; ugly 1Q disasters.

6 of 10 Competitive Games
2 2nd half breakdowns
(but 27 mins playing TOR even on the Road isn't bad)
2 Blowout Losses
(ORL smoked us on 2nd game of Road-Home B2B)

First half of the season we had a number of 3Q failures.
One bad quarter killed the Knix frequently.

Of course we were terrible in the clutch.  Who did we have?  Tim Jr as our main option?  Or Trier?  Mudman?  Etc.
We didn't have the talent to win close games.
And later we traded even uneven Tim away.
But we scrapped and fought and kept a lot of games close.
I'd also argue that Fizz wasn't terribly worried about winning anyway.

So that's 1/4 of the season and mostly competitive games and competitive losses.
Title: Eternal March of the Ever-Closed Diddley-Widdley
Post by: lesterluv on April 14, 2019, 01:22:31 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 14, 2019, 01:16:09 PM
The Ballad of Les and the Ever-Closed Mind.

Not sure if anyone else cares, and you're obviously (as always) a waste of time to engage with.  I guess that's just how things are these days -- no one ever changes their mind and no one is ever wrong.

Sheeittt...things must be awfully slow out there on the other side of the pacific.

You don't address why either of those stats don't matter. Clearly the most important two in demonstrating competitiveness. They don't lie. Now Chicago kept things competitive if you go and actually look at what happened. Full 25 percent more clutch moment games. Not even talking about whether they won or lost them more, were they competitive?

You continue on with a mindless exposition of games from back BEFORE FIZ completely chucked it into the crappot.

Do the LAST THREE QUARTERS OF THE SEASON PLEASE.

Otherwise, quit being the pot calling the kettle black, cause you're absolutely the worst offender of what you accuse me of;))



*** last defense of the desperate as always — attack the poster not the post
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 14, 2019, 01:36:13 PM
It seems like you've had trouble understanding from the start that I was planning to do the whole season.  But I'm not sure why the first 1/4 of the season doesn't count.  Sure the tank went all-in later, as we gave up KZ and traded away Tim Jr.

Quote
*** last defense of the desperate as always — attack the poster not the post

Quote from: lesterdog on April 14, 2019, 11:16:59 AM

lol, 10,000,000x. You are straining and struggling so hard this morning.

Which of course, as usual, you initiated.

I actually try to have a conversation and discussion, while you're up for putdowns and smackdowns.  And for some reason dismiss the first 1/4 of the season, since it doesn't fit your narrative.

Really I try to avoid people who post the way you do on the internet.  It's counter-productive and uninteresting.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on April 14, 2019, 01:51:21 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 14, 2019, 01:36:13 PM
It seems like you've had trouble understanding from the start that I was planning to do the whole season.


Really, I was kidding. Just don't. Do a crossword puzzle. Bake a pie. Volunteer in a kids' home. Something




Quote
Which of course, as usual, you initiated.

I actually try to have a conversation and discussion, while you're up for putdowns and smackdowns.

Oh, so it was Big Bad Lester who made poor little dignified and civil Bo Peep go bad...all hail the power of the MOLESTER

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 14, 2019, 02:10:23 PM
Games 21-30

Mon, Nov 26 @ Memphis  W103-98    7-14   
Wed, Nov 28 @ Detroit     L115-108    7-15
   
Thu, Nov 29 @ Phila      L117-91       7-16   
Sun, Dec 2 vs Milwaukee W136-134 OT 8-16   
Tue, Dec 4    vs Washington  L110-107     8-17
   
Fri, Dec 7   @ Boston      L128-100     8-18   
Sun, Dec 9 vs  Brooklyn      L112-104     8-19
  [5 Pt game with 5 mins left]   

Mon, Dec 10 vs Charlotte    L119-107     8-20
[not as close as final score; Knick 4Q comeback never close]
Thu, Dec 13  @ Cleveland   L113-106      8-21
 [Knix were up 1 with 32 secs left; Lost by 7!]   
Sat, Dec 15  @  Charlotte   W126-124 OT 9-21

Another 3-7 Sequence:
3 W's, inc beating MIL!
3 Close Losses
1 in-between Loss where the Knix got down double digits, and couldn't close the gap with DET, losing by 7.
1 poor loss to CHA where Knix fell behind in 2Q & 3Q
2 Blowouts -- but at least to PHI & BOS on the Road.

Again, 6 or 7 Competitive Games;
2 of the Blowouts to Powerhouses.
The CHA Loss at Home was poor.  2nd game of a B2B, as was the @PHI thrashing.

30 games in, 9-31, and mostly competitive games.

One thing I didn't like was how the Knix didn't defend Home court well all year, including some slow starts.
Title: The Big Reveal
Post by: lesterluv on April 14, 2019, 02:13:22 PM
Feeling a wee bit of remorse at having played a role in corrupting Bo's dignity and subjecting him to uninteresting discourse unworthy of his elevated nature, come Easter Sunday, the artist formerly known as lesterdog will cease to exist. I hereby announce the forthcoming birth of:

lesterlamb
(https://i.chzbgr.com/full/4586060288/hC0F6285E/)



*** unlike his predecessor, lesterlamb is all about the boingie boingie happees

******* FYI: Fiz still sucks ass. Save the yout. Can him quick. Bo, stop. Nobody wants to see games 61-70. No has boings.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 14, 2019, 02:35:19 PM
I try to keep an open mind.
I was Fizzdale's harshest critic when he was hired.  Thought he was a flim-flam man.  A BS-er.  Even his glasses-and-beard combo seemed vaguely annoying.  But I like the way he doled out minutes and gave guys confidence and secured the tank.  So I've come around.  I'm willing to wait til we have a team to see how he does.  But I more or less like him now. 

I was saying Mud might be out of the League soon.  I was wrong.  He still has a messy game I'm not fond of, but he figured some things out, mostly how to lower his shoulder and get off fairly open midrange shots.  He's also better at finishing around the rim.  Still strikes me as a Tyreke Evans or Evan Turner type.  And his D needs work.  But he looks like he has another 5+ years in the League, and hopefully will find a good fit for what he brings.  If he gets his 3-shot consistent, then he could be interesting. 
A lot to work on for Mud, but he's young and has stuff to build on now.  I'd give some credit to Fizz ...

Tangelo has proven a better player than I thought.  He's still turnover prone, but has become more consistent within games, whereas he used to have one big quarter and then disappear.  I don't like his style, and his focus comes and goes, but his effort is mostly good.  And he's got a swagger this year.  growing up, methinks.

From Mud & Tangelo, I'm trying to learn not to worry too much if a player is a PG or not.  Combo guards can start if there are other facilitators.  Positions are blurring and disappearing, and I'm probably latching on to PG as a set position too much.  Hard thing to let go of, after being conditioned so long.  Maybe I just need to watch more Scurry.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on April 14, 2019, 03:49:20 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 14, 2019, 08:58:02 AM
Nice effort by Jamal "better than Mudiay" Murray last night

Do you really believe Mudiay is better than Murray? It's unfathomable.
Title: Unfathomable
Post by: carlos123 on April 14, 2019, 04:11:52 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on April 14, 2019, 03:49:20 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 14, 2019, 08:58:02 AM
Nice effort by Jamal "better than Mudiay" Murray last night

Do you really believe Mudiay is better than Murray? It's unfathomable.

Unfathomable is Chico’s middle name.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 14, 2019, 07:41:14 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on April 14, 2019, 03:49:20 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 14, 2019, 08:58:02 AM
Nice effort by Jamal "better than Mudiay" Murray last night

Do you really believe Mudiay is better than Murray? It's unfathomable.

I believe if Mudiay remained the starter there Denver would have had a very fine season
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on April 14, 2019, 07:48:08 PM
As for Kanter (again)

The dude got 18 rebounds and 20 points in Portland's playoff win over OKC.

Not fucking bad.
Title: No Place In The Modern Game (unless the team in the modern game has a coach)
Post by: lesterluv on April 14, 2019, 07:51:12 PM
Meanwhile....

Enes the Menace lays down a big 20/18 with a few blocks & assists in 34 minutes with the game-best plus/minus for players on either team.

He's quite literally saved the Blazers' season.


A George three with 2:38 left brought the Thunder to within 1, sending a serious scare into the Blazers faithful, but Lillard answered back with a patented logo three. Whenever Portland missed a shot after, it seemed like Kanter was there to snag the offensive board and give them another possession.


Fiz's issues with three really talented tall Euro's not a good look, for him or for our team. They can smell horseshit and just don't seem to feed on his country-fried cheese.

•••• What hole ya hiding' in Ike? Best keep digging deeper....lol, where you hiding at Kam, lol, lol, lol...


Oklahoma City scored just .81 points per chance in 27 pick-and-rolls involving Kanter according to Second Spectrum tracking, as compared to the Thunder's average of .91 points per chance during the regular season.

••••• I still like the Thunder in this series, but maybe Portland busts through for a change instead of just busting.

••••• Bo, if you're still working on section 41-50 of the "competitiveness log" you don't need to finish it.

Damian Lillard on @Enes_Kanter: "He was the MVP of the game."
Title: Enes Kanter Gots The Boingee Boingee Happees
Post by: lesterluv on April 14, 2019, 07:52:05 PM
OOPs, ya beat me to the Turkish Delight!

This is lovely: Enes smacks the *^& out of Westbrook and then does his "one-dimensional" thing at the other end of the floor. :))

https://twitter.com/TheRenderNBA/status/1117519538239754242 (https://twitter.com/TheRenderNBA/status/1117519538239754242)

Impact in The Modern Game:
Blazers' last 10 playoff games without Enes: 0-10
Blazers' playoff record with Enes: 1-0

Title: NO Big Reveal
Post by: carlos123 on April 14, 2019, 08:36:59 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on April 14, 2019, 02:13:22 PM
Feeling a wee bit of remorse at having played a role in corrupting Bo's dignity and subjecting him to uninteresting discourse unworthy of his elevated nature, come Easter Sunday, the artist formerly known as lesterdog will cease to exist. I hereby announce the forthcoming birth of:

lesterlamb

Oh, NOOOOOOOO .....
(https://media.tenor.com/images/f45dc3deb54ae86b9276bd0aaa790972/tenor.gif)

YOU'LL ALWAYS BE ...MY DOGGIE!
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/bY4LiIHEX6Pqmj9TkXeCzaF-45HAZ2HTVS75LivZhUyOXAG3ppflXypyuzZ67cg_rmOHBHu9jzWYRaYXe_ylYR17b09Jfoa0n9VZ6xOpFKMS4Gbmxiye1KSbbYvdEnBa3kbzXUOPS9Yo2bD_b8ecvPgg7khIt8u2BNEvj9R2QXa7dsP2LBojasr4TiWsQq2khbRX5OcnhlR1qpIFQOZL4LsXAhI4-yebYPUcvHioy5TLFlXPYbofPPJdmoRZlXEXa6a8QhjM3S9Cj5PLUGK13OLgext1lhqWy2R2eGs6hEoFRyrrVkSyeuxk0VTc8iJcS7ILfdgLISdJKXMVg09NZJ5XKtx2bnWhChVRC79j5Y8R2O6TZcrfBvgK80k7OrGkK9RlRyaGtrcWvazeWbJI_ExATjLx_ObsPuF9hWvEy8PjI-r4ib4yrJ6wCEhbZFn8GdzqbX_MOPsYY3d_Xu4vk5qIehlhgjVZUMJFmmPHI5n6hZVCjkA7y9D17s3Ucs1arh0mW7tGCluuE0Aip2dIVT_YsgS8NlcBYOcQxXFaE0DqlqGaikrDIbkF9W8Q5Oqz0nRPgbdIqCRoTy_rXI-kdJwT3YH9aox3TEJ-3LGDY5pR3zSN-WmlnXPZ1XI5q7FBgrInmrUd3isAxwhHSjc-wWx-WkqoEig=w1199-h600-no)
Title: Re: No Place In The Modern Game (unless the team in the modern game has a coach)
Post by: carlos123 on April 14, 2019, 09:00:14 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on April 14, 2019, 07:51:12 PM
Meanwhile....

Enes the Menace lays down a big 20/18 with a few blocks & assists in 34 minutes with the game-best plus/minus for players on either team.

He's quite literally saved the Blazers' season.


A George three with 2:38 left brought the Thunder to within 1, sending a serious scare into the Blazers faithful, but Lillard answered back with a patented logo three. Whenever Portland missed a shot after, it seemed like Kanter was there to snag the offensive board and give them another possession.


Fiz's issues with three really talented tall Euro's not a good look, for him or for our team. They can smell horseshit and just don't seem to feed on his country-fried cheese.

•••• What hole ya hiding' in Ike? Best keep digging deeper....lol, where you hiding at Kam, lol, lol, lol...


Oklahoma City scored just .81 points per chance in 27 pick-and-rolls involving Kanter according to Second Spectrum tracking, as compared to the Thunder's average of .91 points per chance during the regular season.

••••• I still like the Thunder in this series, but maybe Portland busts through for a change instead of just busting.

••••• Bo, if you're still working on section 41-50 of the "competitiveness log" you don't need to finish it.

Damian Lillard on @Enes_Kanter: "He was the MVP of the game."

Les, I just thought some parts of your post needed re-sizing.

I personally was for the tank. Hey, you never know what you can get with an extra 1.5% or whatever. But Fizzy wasn't tanking. Like I said before, he's just INCOMPETENT. No "system" whatsoever. "Hey guys, just play, I'll dole out minutes after checking out which way the wind is blowing, that's in my job description."

And with the way he mismanaged players, any star would have to be crazy to come and play for him. I mean, in addition to the fiasco with KP and with EK, why all the DNP's inflicted on Deandre?

Here's one "STAR" that we can get.
(http://2xnw2mt2bw82xppry3quo8xq.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/cms/26/2629/262960-294x163.jpg)
Title: Cassowary
Post by: carlos123 on April 14, 2019, 09:19:39 PM
Nothing to do with the Knicks (that I know of). Just a really cool birdie.

(https://o.aolcdn.com/images/dims?thumbnail=640%2C420&quality=80&format=jpg&image_uri=https%3A%2F%2Faol-releases-assets-production.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fgenerator%2FF9542278.jpg&client=amp-blogside-v2&signature=5efce44954f5f78ff2fbd9d7ca0fe9e99d94b8f8)

And very competitive, ... maybe.

(https://animals.sandiegozoo.org/sites/default/files/2017-12/norhtern-cassowary.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on April 15, 2019, 01:16:11 AM
Quote from: elephant on April 14, 2019, 07:48:08 PM
As for Kanter (again)

The dude got 18 rebounds and 20 points in Portland's playoff win over OKC.

Not fucking bad.
yet we throw him away.  old dude right.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 15, 2019, 06:04:18 AM
I find the Fire Fizz chants bewildering.
This was a weak roster of scattered talents with many cast-offs and rooks.
It was a Development and Tanking Year.  Imo, we accomplished both.
Unless you think we're competing for a deep playoff run next year, then this was Y0 of the rebuild.
And Fizz gets Y1 next year with a new top rook and hopefully some sort of useful FAgent.

As for Kanter, he was more concerned about his contract year and numbers than any team plan.
He was still playing a good amount and putting up big bench numbers.
But he started whining and complaining very publicly, and forced the issue.
Basically, the Knix were unlikely to re-sign Kant at any price he'd be looking for.
Knix have extensive other needs, hope to make a splash in FA, and it's not hard to find a cheap decent C these days.

As for DeAndretheGiant, what would be the point of playing him late season? 
Maybe to see how he paired with Knox?  But Knix wanted to see Knox and Mitch more.
According to Fizz, DeAndre was fine with sitting out, and was supportive of Mitch.
I suppose FA and DeAndre's market value will decide if he'll be back.`

He turns 31 this Summer.  Was up and down for the Knix. 
Some games active, some games lethargic.
Did some nice high post passing.
Knix were only 2-17 when he played.
And he only sat 7 games.
I fail to see the crisis.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on April 15, 2019, 08:48:28 AM
Kanter wasn't down with the team plan? Lol. What team plan? To be total shit?

Nobody who belongs on a playoff team in this league is ever good with that.

Fiz talked all this crap about new winning culture, winning system, earning minutes. Utter twattle. Stuff matters.

In case anybody missed, Kanter's exclamation point on the evening with 11 seconds left:

https://twitter.com/HeymanHustle/status/1117549968032698370 (https://twitter.com/HeymanHustle/status/1117549968032698370)


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on April 15, 2019, 01:29:42 PM
you are talking to a wall.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 15, 2019, 01:56:43 PM
Biz pool

Kid 8 score is 136......
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 15, 2019, 02:50:19 PM
Did I miss something?
What was Fizz' role in KZ wanting out?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 15, 2019, 03:29:12 PM
We have no Aminu or Harkless who each cover a position and a half, allowing Enes to root out the post and gather rebounds. We have no Lillard or McCollum. If Kanter is smart, he’ll stay in Portland for what they can give him. Otherwise he’s odds on to feel a bit Jerome Jamesy signing a bigger deal somewhere else.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 15, 2019, 03:48:34 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 15, 2019, 02:50:19 PM
Did I miss something?
What was Fizz' role in KZ wanting out?

Comments re:  Porzingis rehab/conditioning.  I would also say CONDONING/ACCEPTING LOSING factored in.
Title: As always -- you're wrong
Post by: Kam on April 15, 2019, 04:24:41 PM
OKC shot 5 for 33 from 3 pt range.

I don't think Kanter held their perimeter shooters to 15%

So if OKC makes its usual percentage Portland loses big.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 15, 2019, 04:27:31 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 15, 2019, 03:48:34 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 15, 2019, 02:50:19 PM
Did I miss something?
What was Fizz' role in KZ wanting out?

Comments re:  Porzingis rehab/conditioning.  I would also say CONDONING/ACCEPTING LOSING factored in.

He only commented that KZ was only doing light jogging and wasn't full on sprinting yet.

It was a fairly neutral comment and not a critique on KZ's conditioning.

It was KZ's brother-agent who posted the incendiary "This is #1 Bullshit" remark to it.

Makes me think that was part of the plan by Janit -- take a hairline fracture in the relationship and chip it with the blunt edge of an Axe
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 15, 2019, 05:15:45 PM
If that doesn’t happen, the hope in New York is that until the roster improves, Fizdale can develop the talents of the Knicks’ trio of guards -- Frank Ntilikina, Emmanuel Mudiay and Tim Hardaway, Jr. -- in which New York has invested Draft and literal treasure the last couple of seasons. (It will help that Fizdale’s relationship with Hardaway, Jr., goes back to when the latter was a kid and his father, the master of the killer crossover, worked in the Heat organization after Tim Hardaway Sr.’s playing days ended.)



- Didnt develop
- About to be gone
- Gone

https://www.nba.com/article/2018/05/07/morning-tip-david-fizdale-new-york-knicks-new-coaching-opportunity
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on April 15, 2019, 07:31:39 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 15, 2019, 06:04:18 AM
As for Kanter, he was more concerned about his contract year and numbers than any team plan.
He was still playing a good amount and putting up big bench numbers.
But he started whining and complaining very publicly, and forced the issue.
Basically, the Knix were unlikely to re-sign Kant at any price he'd be looking for.
Knix have extensive other needs, hope to make a splash in FA, and it's not hard to find a cheap decent C these days.


As Lester asks...What team plan? That deserves an answer.

Moreover, you begrudge him complaining when his role is reduced to nothing? He's not an aging baller. The guy has pride. Shut up, sit there, and let the team tank?

There were many ways to handle this better and still develop other big men on the team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 15, 2019, 07:34:52 PM
Kanter was "concerned about his contract year"


Yes.

Thus he wanted his deserved minutes


What is your point?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 15, 2019, 07:35:46 PM
Knicks in the end did him a solid.

Enes will make plenty of money after his playoff appearance.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 15, 2019, 08:01:48 PM
Big Snacks says hello!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 15, 2019, 08:33:38 PM
Hot start for Deeay.

But Philly looks determined
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 15, 2019, 09:32:08 PM
Quote from: elephant on April 15, 2019, 07:31:39 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 15, 2019, 06:04:18 AM
As for Kanter, he was more concerned about his contract year and numbers than any team plan.
He was still playing a good amount and putting up big bench numbers.
But he started whining and complaining very publicly, and forced the issue.
Basically, the Knix were unlikely to re-sign Kant at any price he'd be looking for.
Knix have extensive other needs, hope to make a splash in FA, and it's not hard to find a cheap decent C these days.


As Lester asks...What team plan? That deserves an answer.


Mitchell ROBINSON. 

Maybe Mitch develops even quicker without catering to Enes Kanter and his ending salary.  He had no reason to be loyal to NYK and would've taken the highest offer as a FA.  Mitchell is our for four years.  Makes sense to PLAN AROUND THE NEW KID.  Thats the plan.  Invest in your long term asset.  Not your moustached asshat.

It should not be a question.  Enes was never in the plan.  He was plan Z.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on April 15, 2019, 09:47:25 PM
Quote from: elephant on April 15, 2019, 07:31:39 PM
There were many ways to handle this better and still develop other big men on the team.


100 percent. And the small men on the team. A fiasco all round. By week three, Fiz was already well out of his league.
Title: Re: As always -- you're wrong. YES INDEED!
Post by: carlos123 on April 15, 2019, 10:42:22 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 15, 2019, 03:29:12 PM
We have no Aminu or Harkless who each cover a position and a half, allowing Enes to root out the post and gather rebounds. We have no Lillard or McCollum. If Kanter is smart, he’ll stay in Portland for what they can give him. Otherwise he’s odds on to feel a bit Jerome Jamesy signing a bigger deal somewhere else.

STARTERS   MIN   FG   3PT   FT   OREB   DREB   REB   AST   STL   BLK   TO   PF   +/-   PTS

E. KanterC   34   8-15   0-1   4-6      7            11            18    2    1    2    2    1   +15   20

Even if Kanter went for 36 rebounds, 4 assists, 4 blocks, 40 points and a +30 you two would still find that it was all due to the other players, both on his team and the opponent.

Quote from: Kam on April 15, 2019, 04:24:41 PM
OKC shot 5 for 33 from 3 pt range.

I don't think Kanter held their perimeter shooters to 15%

So if OKC makes its usual percentage Portland loses big.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/AW8uKiVH0RD8FwVe_D0Q8RtW7Qwwz1efcOgdlRirCw8P9_J5MnjoCcckFtlVevsYDWTwRStI9_csrg53iOZOq6vFxH3P2wvj2ys0PmcJR1riQY2R0T4OEA9Va-Ak6OuhzmztNwqlC9bLPkJ4SQiyKfqBIImLY0zBsmRPJX_C3RBCpbUnpycs90HQ25EDDJV5CA-QysV4e3oUwu5uVSiqVH7EFstB0iR3ePzgf4JA2iqgEOXCIJ1KQiVwZ-8c-XeeP_MaXru-oiGNrpBzWrCV34z7kvnG0PjWht4Wz26W32EgCrg4Uk4C5sjKPCOK12KzHKqLTWLxF88BY7hQopdBoX4_vhLA9yapoZnDN1Tdatj1eQyLwLkud2nycZVU17zD0yHhBKN376p1kLY2hjzDd3XsKEOPQMRL6xN1qVJH_1JS-oMfqzQAJWx_FgNxAgrdh-pctaeVYEnVXMyfBpGSTP6mcg7tFRoHcoEq79tJBCnTAZ5P8gVU95iFpSPgxS76hF9HuAj5Vv3mdyKFniYLiphITNLuzmj8OiU6-egUfQWna4WB0h_qwPvVtmnUstPKsZISwD7aActGQf5yah4QEjzzvRCgPvUSWOoJjd3K2Bsl4UgQQrDQRt9WEz7Mk94nbRBaa9B6lB_QGq1qzDG41ysz86qcHL0=w1136-h757-no)
"Your moustached asshat" just for you Kam.
Why the hate? What did Kanter do to the Kam(s)ter?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 15, 2019, 11:17:26 PM
Kanter can usually get his numbers and plays no defense.  So he gets numbers and his team loses unless it can make up for his deficiencies.  His team won this time.  They were able to survive playing Kanter because the opponent wasn't making their threes.

Lets monitor the rest of the games please.  I hope everyone will entertain my future posts on the man.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 15, 2019, 11:19:47 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on April 15, 2019, 09:47:25 PM
Quote from: elephant on April 15, 2019, 07:31:39 PM
There were many ways to handle this better and still develop other big men on the team.


100 percent. And the small men on the team. A fiasco all round. By week three, Fiz was already well out of his league.

Fizzdale could've handled it better.... but Enes wasted no time talking to the media and looking upset on the bench.  Once Enes reacted to his benching unprofessionally the org basically rolled its eyes, held its nose, and waited for the deadline to dump him.  He was easy to get rid of once he became a distraction instead of a mentor.  You all saw Mitch bloom once DeAndre was here.
Title: Re: As always -- you're wrong. YES INDEED!
Post by: Kam on April 15, 2019, 11:21:49 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on April 15, 2019, 10:42:22 PM

"Your moustached asshat" just for you Kam.


Thanks Carlos.  I had a feeling you'd like that.
Title: Why?
Post by: carlos123 on April 16, 2019, 01:23:58 AM
Quote from: Kam on April 15, 2019, 11:21:49 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on April 15, 2019, 10:42:22 PM

"Your moustached asshat" just for you Kam.


Thanks Carlos.  I had a feeling you'd like that.

Did you forget this part?
Quote from: carlos123 on April 15, 2019, 10:42:22 PM
Why the hate? What did Kanter do to the Kam(s)ter?

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/AW8uKiVH0RD8FwVe_D0Q8RtW7Qwwz1efcOgdlRirCw8P9_J5MnjoCcckFtlVevsYDWTwRStI9_csrg53iOZOq6vFxH3P2wvj2ys0PmcJR1riQY2R0T4OEA9Va-Ak6OuhzmztNwqlC9bLPkJ4SQiyKfqBIImLY0zBsmRPJX_C3RBCpbUnpycs90HQ25EDDJV5CA-QysV4e3oUwu5uVSiqVH7EFstB0iR3ePzgf4JA2iqgEOXCIJ1KQiVwZ-8c-XeeP_MaXru-oiGNrpBzWrCV34z7kvnG0PjWht4Wz26W32EgCrg4Uk4C5sjKPCOK12KzHKqLTWLxF88BY7hQopdBoX4_vhLA9yapoZnDN1Tdatj1eQyLwLkud2nycZVU17zD0yHhBKN376p1kLY2hjzDd3XsKEOPQMRL6xN1qVJH_1JS-oMfqzQAJWx_FgNxAgrdh-pctaeVYEnVXMyfBpGSTP6mcg7tFRoHcoEq79tJBCnTAZ5P8gVU95iFpSPgxS76hF9HuAj5Vv3mdyKFniYLiphITNLuzmj8OiU6-egUfQWna4WB0h_qwPvVtmnUstPKsZISwD7aActGQf5yah4QEjzzvRCgPvUSWOoJjd3K2Bsl4UgQQrDQRt9WEz7Mk94nbRBaa9B6lB_QGq1qzDG41ysz86qcHL0=w1136-h757-no)
Kanter loves you too.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 16, 2019, 05:00:17 AM
Yep, the plan was to develop Mitch and even Kornet at the 5.

I can understand Kant not being happy with that, but:
1) he opted in to a team on a very definite ground-up rebuilding plan. He wanted his $18 (fair enough), but Kant and NYK knew he wasn't going to be here next year.  So once the tank was full-on and it was entirely a development year, his role unsurprisingly shrank.
2) we were losing significantly with him and his numbers
3) he could have handled things behind the scenes and not have gone straight to the media and complained, undermining the new coach of a very young team.  Does anyone think Kant handled it well?  professionally?

Kant was treated badly and DeAndre got DNP's so Fizz is a bad coach seem ludicrous to me, as though people don't have much understanding of tanking and playing yute after a season is shot.
Seems like plenty of folks either didn't have a stomach for tanking or didn't understand the concept and what it entails. 

Btw, it's a multi-year process, and next year, when hopefully we have more legit starters and a more credible/coherent team, Fizz can begin implementing a system and establishing rotations and such.  Imo, Fizz largely aced the Y0 tanking and development portion of this major rebuild.  I am hugely disappointed that Y1 won't be with KZ, but that's not on Fizz.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 16, 2019, 05:17:04 AM
Shee-it, I was semi-watching the GS game while getting ready to leave.  Had to head out with GS up around 12 with 8 mins or so left.
So at least LAC cut down the 16 point lead.
But I wasn't expecting much.
Come back a few hours later, and LAC completed the comeback.
Crazy.

GS up 16 with 9 mins left.  Who'd bet against that?

I've never been sold on KD as a closer.  Favors tough shots (which he can make because he is talented).  Turnover prone.  Focus issues.  Seems he offensive-fouled a lot to wind down this game.  I'll have to see a replay.  KD was often a turnover machine and bonehead in the clutch for OKC.  Better for GS, but still lapses.

Lou W Scoring Genius.
Pa Bev and Montrezl can play on any team of mine.
Gallo asserted himself after a quiet G1.

GS gave up 85 2nd half points.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 16, 2019, 08:22:05 AM
Bo - do you think when we dealt for Kanter that we thought he would opt in - expected it and were happy about it?

Dont let the fact it all crumbled be your impetus for "this was the plan all along".

No.  When Fizdale was hired a TANK was NOT the plan.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 16, 2019, 09:45:44 AM
Think of what Doc Rivers could do with Knicks.....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on April 16, 2019, 09:54:23 AM
talk about the real deal ....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 16, 2019, 12:10:07 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 16, 2019, 08:22:05 AM
Dont let the fact it all crumbled be your impetus for "this was the plan all along".
No.  When Fizdale was hired a TANK was NOT the plan.

Teams do not announce that they plan to tank.  I don't think the League would allow it.

We knew that KZ was out for likely 2/3rds of the year (turns out the entire year missed).  Our opening day starting lineup featured two legit starters, Tim Jr. and Kant -- with neither good at defense.  Put simply, having Tim as your #1 scoring option does not lead one to expect W's.  Or Kant as your last line of defense.

I called 23 Wins and probably would have dropped to 20 if I knew KZ wouldn't suit up.  Prior to the season I also noted the brutal schedule from Thanksgiving through to Jan 24 -- lots of Roadies, lots of Top Teams -- and said that our record would probably be so bad that we wouldn't bring KZ back until after the A-S game.
I think I guessed KZ games would play 20 games.

The roster was larded with rooks and reclamations.
I think Knix had the youngest team.  Did anyone else have 4 rooks?  And we played them all good minutes. 

The rest of the early starting lineup:
- journeyman Lance started for stability and defense, and not to overly rush Knox.
- Frank, a non-scorer, at SG
- Burke, a small terrible defender at PG.
Revealing.

Then the bench:
Baker, Knox, Trier all played more than half the game (24+ mins).  Zonja and Vonleh in the 16-19 range.
That's 2 rooks playing half the game from opening day.
Two reclamation projects with solid mins.  Journeyman Baker with 27 mins.

G3 v. BOS almost identical with the exception of Knox blowing out his ankle after just 4 mins, replaced by Dotson, another rook, with 22 mins.

So Fizz was playing 10 man rotations.  With 2 or 3 rooks (Knox, Trier, Dotson); 19 year old 2nd year Franc as an added honorary rook; 3 reclamations in Burke, Vonleh, Zonja (and soon enough Muddy); 2 bench journeymen in Lance and Baker; and 2 legit starters (Tim/Kant).  Later Mitch would impress and be added to the mix.  And then Kornet as well midseason. 

All the ingredients were there to win very few games and get a high draft pick in the year our best player was injured.  The tank was pretty obvious to me prior to the season.  Sorry if the memo got to you late.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on April 16, 2019, 12:19:26 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 15, 2019, 01:56:43 PM
Biz pool

Kid 8 score is 136......

Sent you a Fac a message with the scores of game 1 for everyone.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 16, 2019, 12:26:32 PM
OK, cool.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 16, 2019, 01:38:40 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 12, 2019, 02:57:18 PM
KL, PG13, D Mitchell, Ben Simmons, DeRozan, Enes one buck Kanter is my $25


Khaki is my KL. Should have 25 more points for 142.

Thanks Biz
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 16, 2019, 02:04:13 PM
John MacLeod, 81 (https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/15/obituaries/john-macleod-dead.html)

Our last coach before Riley ushered in a decade of winning.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 16, 2019, 03:08:17 PM
I would change this to Bob Hill and Rick Pitino

Forever grateful for Rick.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on April 16, 2019, 03:13:46 PM
I thought Pitino was a very good coach for the Knicks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on April 16, 2019, 04:59:52 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 16, 2019, 01:38:40 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 12, 2019, 02:57:18 PM
KL 25,
PG13 26,
D Mitchell 19,
Ben Simmons 9, (one game only)
DeRozan 18,
Enes one buck Kanter 20

25+26+19+9+18+20 = 117


Khaki is my KL. Should have 25 more points for 142.

Thanks Biz

My answer in the original box.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 16, 2019, 06:32:45 PM
Lol.

Dawg can't count.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 16, 2019, 06:48:02 PM
I shouldn't laugh.  Shorted myself 5 points (thought KL had 20)

Fac trailin the pack....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 16, 2019, 09:01:47 PM
In that case I could use 25 more points.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 16, 2019, 10:23:32 PM
Jamal Murray 0 for 6, -13 first half of game 2.

Mudiaaaayyyyyyyyyyy!!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 16, 2019, 10:42:08 PM
Time to unleash Isaiah.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 16, 2019, 11:21:34 PM
Woke Murray up.  Love it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 16, 2019, 11:45:06 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 16, 2019, 11:21:34 PM
Woke Murray up.  Love it.

Nugs owe you one
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 17, 2019, 04:20:25 AM
Murray's young  (22).  Playoffs ain't easy.
But the guy can score.  21 4Q points is impressive.
Hard to believe Mud would excel in the playoffs.

Experience crucial int he playoffs.
DEN nearly dropped 2 at Home.
PHi gave up home court ad in G1.

The Kant express slowed down significantly in G2.
Looks like My Leonard did well  with Kant in foul trouble.
Leonard always looks pretty good/solid when I see him.

But all I saw was the TOR rout.

OKC has talent but very slumpy the last couple months.
T-bomb Ferguson has been a pretty terrible starter.
Shroder killed 1-on-1 1st half of the season, then faded badly since.  Surprised they can't get more out of Morris.
You know you're in trouble when RayFelt has by far the best game +/-.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on April 17, 2019, 05:59:05 AM
So maybe they should have kept Mud.
Watched a good chunk courtesy of a stream through that reddit that was posted.
Murray was horrid through 3. Absolutely exquisite in 4.
We know our guy seems to have the exact opposite tendency.
Put em together for a full 48.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 17, 2019, 07:25:35 AM
They were much better off jettisoning Mud and letting Murray develop.  I think this year is too soon for things to come together post-seasonally, but they have a bright future.

During the year, Nugs got some terrific bench play from previous unknowns Monte Morris, Torrey Craig, Malik Beasley.  Plus Plumly.  Juancho and TreyLyle found it hard to get much court time.
I'm not much of a Barton fan.  Streaky, mistake-prone.

As for ORL, DJ Auggie came back to earth.  Raps left Isaac open for corner 3's.  0-6.  And would have been 0-7 but Lowry ran into him on a late closeout, for 3 FT's.  Lowry played a strong game, but you can't run into a guy on a close out, especially when he's 8" taller.  Just make the effort, but play it safe.  Leaving Isaac open paid off for the Raps.  Able to collapse inside on Vuc and DJ drives, and stick to Ross reasonably well.  Playoffs are tough for young guys.  See if Isaac can adjust.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 17, 2019, 08:18:15 AM
Would love to continue the argument, but I have the NUGGETS in the Finals

heh - Go, Jamaaaaal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 17, 2019, 11:09:23 AM
https://twitter.com/HoopsRumors/status/1118299731468402688
Title: Louisville as NBA factory
Post by: Kam on April 17, 2019, 02:27:06 PM
The University of Louisville has had 75 players taken in the NBA Draft, including eight in the last six years.

There are seven guys who are currently getting opportunities in the NBA — Deng Adel (Cleveland Cavaliers), Gorgui Dieng (Minnesota Timberwolves), Montrezl Harrell (Los Angeles Clippers), Damion Lee (Golden State Warriors), Donovan Mitchell (Utah Jazz), Terry Rozier (Boston Celtics) and Ray Spalding (Phoenix Suns). Of those seven, four are playing with their respective teams in the NBA playoffs and are key pieces on their rosters.
Title: Mitchell
Post by: Kam on April 17, 2019, 02:35:22 PM
Robinson joins Mark Eaton as the only NBA rookies to average more than two blocks per game in 20 minutes per game or fewer.
Title: Steven Adams
Post by: Kam on April 17, 2019, 02:49:39 PM
7 for 8 from the field.  Guarded by Ekant.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on April 17, 2019, 03:02:03 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 17, 2019, 08:18:15 AM
Would love to continue the argument, but I have the NUGGETS in the Finals

heh - Go, Jamaaaaal.

There's no argument. Nobody in the world thinks the Nuggets kept the wrong guy, and there's no way to prove that they did. So when you make this declaration, understand it is not one anyone can engage.

What we know: Murray is inconsistent but at times brilliant, while Mudiay is just the former. There is no professional on record as thinking the two are in the same class. Their salaries are going to be a strong indication of how much more Murray is valued than Mudiay (likely Jamal receives at least three or four times the total guaranteed salary). The Denver press has been ecstatic since they chose Murray over Mudiay.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 17, 2019, 03:21:11 PM
heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 17, 2019, 03:23:09 PM
I think you are correct on the salaries as Denver will re-up Murray while they did not with Emmanuel.

And I never said to get rid of Murray, by the way.
Title: Clyde - not sold on Frank. Not being sought out for advice.
Post by: Kam on April 17, 2019, 06:07:03 PM
https://www.reddit.com/r/NYKnicks/comments/bdlhib/im_having_a_dinner_shootaround_with_clyde_in_30/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/NYKnicks/comments/bdlhib/im_having_a_dinner_shootaround_with_clyde_in_30/)

And Knox is clueless on D
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on April 17, 2019, 09:28:33 PM
Interesting reading. Yeah, he's not sold on any of our point guards. Well, why should he be? As for Knox, nothing we couldn't see....
Title: Congratulations!
Post by: carlos123 on April 17, 2019, 09:43:13 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 17, 2019, 03:21:11 PM
heh

Better to have a crush on Muddy than on...
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/1_3ca3lnVOruixKF_j3Q2iInw8kD_JYqtz4j0D6SEB2YFhB2HB-x4pPOS3903qlfBDAxuf8WTaSs5ahLqCdWf8-TOB7LDCigSs2IO8ECIi9fdTXYj0-JpMkphx5eCdSajaaPmrIB1VAa7h6_7BVihWsQnGJIYJajiXunPgh0Wr7wE8rpVif27tpaWuTTMSEcgMlMPNOkzZzK2E_5EEFgdhZL7dBGHix60JGR4YSIh9FBNFOC7eMEWKJedT3h8nFCdn5N2K8mky7702GMRC7vfj3W9GgTtXbsnpT2k5TmPwLuKSZqqCbXEkapaxrvXdhqXP567WoSFG5vZk9vhSlgqk1tYl3LRUdTt9lvFkH1-jozt1C8gvqJ1rsgLrMNkSsKyzJ6plQUja6btCieAbYtHeorhDml8rqpFUNvTSiX-2ZPlbEaBnEO-heaRiTv60ONOvBx5518Nd-ZEMdMBy7ZUrw-4_44t57Jv8U6sRQN2PFmvWxFGKEoerI5h5OFHqMR7yBhTUKM6T5tW_L9ac3XzphMzoEnjK7D5LL3maYEVz0vikZE5zcScLaX-q9IQocLwT4Lh_vSBQOoTOsw1pnQ1Lr2kTfI11GthZr9L5pCjF9Rny7MxJdYljhEtF5-Lj6Nxnnh3qwhc_9MZRnzHKq5ruLJMjzWNnM=w960-h539-no)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 18, 2019, 01:40:39 AM
Knox has a lot to work on, but also a good deal to build on.
He's real young.  Good body.  Needs more strength and to fill out more.  His defensive awareness was not good.  But he has other things ahead of that (though that should be a focus too).

Franc is Rory Sparrow.
Looking like a backup combo guard.
But he's young.  And only got half a season in.
I'd put him in Summer League and tell him to be super-aggressive, look to score to make an assists every time down. 
Try to alter his mentality some.

I think his defense is reasonably solid, but overrated.  Foul prone. Sometimes not good angles or stance.  Might navigate a pick well or poorly.  Good effort.  Long arms.

Never understood why players, especially Points don't seek out Clyde's help.  Some might be intimidated a bit, others might think Clyde's got his job and role. Maybe some of the young guys and especially the foreigners don't really know who he was to some extent.

Always thought the team could help by giving Clyde some sort of semi-official role.  Pay Clyde $250K a year as a Defensive Consultant or Special Guard Guru.  I'm sure Clyde wouldn't mind the extra money and he's around the team most of the year and has down time in the hotel.  So he could give some advice and do some small side-work with some of the players on a weekly basis or whatever.  He knows his ish, knows how to communicate lessons pithily and effectively, and is basically scouting the team all season anyway.

So not just on the players, the Knicks could make it something semi-official.  I don't think a little Clyde on the Side would step on the toes of the coaching staff.

Mud, Franc, Jr. Smith could all use some overall guidance, especially on D.  Zo & Dot should be young sponges as well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 18, 2019, 02:51:48 AM
Agree that Clyde’s input would help. It’s not like he’s been away from the game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on April 18, 2019, 09:58:36 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 18, 2019, 01:40:39 AM
Franc is Rory Sparrow.

I remember first time I saw Mark Jackson in a Knick uni. First time on the court. As a rookie. It was like "holy f.." What talent. What game feel. The Rory Sparrow era is really, really over...finally, a real PG for the Knicks. So wonderful it was.

I remember the first time I saw Marbury in a Knick uni. First game after the trade. Similar feeling. All the Howard Eisleys washed away, though the glow quickly faded.

Looking forward to feeling that feeling again.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on April 18, 2019, 10:04:11 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 18, 2019, 01:40:39 AM
Knox has a lot to work on

The problem is what are the problems? Motor. Awareness. Court IQ.....head & heart issues like these often not fixable, different from say shooting mechanics. Rarely see those rectified satisfactorily. That's why I didn't and still don't like the pick. Not saying never, but to me, it is not promising.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on April 18, 2019, 10:38:38 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on April 18, 2019, 09:58:36 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 18, 2019, 01:40:39 AM
Franc is Rory Sparrow.

I remember first time I saw Mark Jackson in a Knick uni. First time on the court. As a rookie. It was like "holy f.." What talent. What game feel. The Rory Sparrow era is really, really over...finally, a real PG for the Knicks. So wonderful it was.

I remember the first time I saw Marbury in a Knick uni. First game after the trade. Similar feeling. All the Howard Eisleys washed away, though the glow quickly faded.

Looking forward to feeling that feeling again.
I had the same feeling about Mark Jackson (and had it for him when he was in college).  And then I had the same feeling about Rod Strickland......
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 18, 2019, 10:57:01 AM
The Love God - Rory Sparrow

Great Knick.

Still works for the NBA, I believe.  Local North Jersey guy - ran clinics in Paterson, I think.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 18, 2019, 10:58:28 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on April 18, 2019, 10:04:11 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 18, 2019, 01:40:39 AM
Knox has a lot to work on

The problem is what are the problems? Motor. Awareness. Court IQ.....head & heart issues like these often not fixable, different from say shooting mechanics. Rarely see those rectified satisfactorily. That's why I didn't and still don't like the pick. Not saying never, but to me, it is not promising.

MILES BRIDGES appears to be the selection that should have been made.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 18, 2019, 11:13:46 AM
I think when we judge Knox and to a lesser extent Frank - you have to ask what the opportinty cost is in keeping them and waiting out development.

With the fleeting praise we heard of Ntlikina from some NBA execs you would think Frank had some trade value prior to '18-'19

And likewise now - prior to '19-'20 the same can be said of Knox.

So if we do NOT deal them and they are mediocre to below par, what did we forego in not moving them?   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on April 18, 2019, 11:30:36 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 18, 2019, 10:57:01 AM
The Love God - Rory Sparrow

Great Knick.

Still works for the NBA, I believe.  Local North Jersey guy - ran clinics in Paterson, I think.

I'm not disparaging Rory, who was a good Knick, but then when the real thing shows up, it's like....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 18, 2019, 11:52:03 AM
Loved that '83-'84 Hubie team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on April 18, 2019, 12:03:39 PM
Oh indeed...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 18, 2019, 02:22:56 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 18, 2019, 01:40:39 AM
Knox has a lot to work on, but also a good deal to build on.
He's real young.  Good body.  Needs more strength and to fill out more.  His defensive awareness was not good.  But he has other things ahead of that (though that should be a focus too).

Franc is Rory Sparrow.
Looking like a backup combo guard.

I was thinking as Franc as a backup to a backup.  Because you want your backup to still be able to do starter things. 
Franc regressed infinitely in year 2.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 18, 2019, 02:26:24 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 18, 2019, 02:51:48 AM
Agree that Clyde’s input would help. It’s not like he’s been away from the game.

He even flies with the team.  Talk to him on the jetway.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 18, 2019, 02:36:36 PM
If the big knock on Knox is defense you can live with that and still win.  If he becomes a significant force on offense you can surround him with other players who make up for that.  I would rather he work on offensive brilliance.

In general in life.... everyone should all be sharpening their strengths.   People and States and Cities and Nations.

If you work on your weakness, it will never be a strength. It will only be less weak.  The effort might result in 2 less points given up per game.  Wooopeeee.... rather you focus on scoring 4 more points per game.
Title: James Harden
Post by: Kam on April 18, 2019, 02:39:04 PM
He is an MVP candidate every year for his offense.   He is not a MVP for his defense. 

Do you think he wishes he worked less on offense and more on defense?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 18, 2019, 02:57:04 PM
Harden has improved his defense significantly.
GOne are the days when he just spaces out or doesn't bother to react or loses his man totally.  his post defense was surprisingly effective, and I think I read that he was posted up more than any other player.  I don't think HOU is a genuine contender this year and last without Harden playing acceptable defense.  Especially this year after letting Ariza and Luc M&M go.

Knox is athletic, has a good frame, good size, should add muscle easily.  I see no reason he can't become a solid defender.  Agree that isn't the main priority right now.  But yes, he needs to lift weights, watch film and learn what he should be doing out there on D.
Title: Clyde
Post by: carlos123 on April 18, 2019, 02:58:22 PM
Quote from: Kam on April 18, 2019, 02:26:24 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 18, 2019, 02:51:48 AM
Agree that Clyde’s input would help. It’s not like he’s been away from the game.

He even flies with the team.  Talk to him on the jetway.

Maybe Fizzy don’t want “his” players to talk to him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 18, 2019, 03:00:33 PM
That seems 180 from the general Fizz approach to as many HOF cooks as possible.

I expect both Knox and Frank to improve and ultimately thrive in the league as useful players. I hope they are both with the team next year.
Title: Cooks
Post by: carlos123 on April 18, 2019, 04:21:09 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 18, 2019, 03:00:33 PM
That seems 180 from the general Fizz approach to as many HOF cooks as possible.

I expect both Knox and Frank to improve and ultimately thrive in the league as useful players. I hope they are both with the team next year.

The other HOF cooks don’t travel with the team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 18, 2019, 04:22:00 PM
There seems to be a 2 decade trend of not utilizing Clyde.

As facil mentions, Fizz has been bringing in Bernard and Sheed to work with and talk to players.  And other ex-Knix have spoken to the team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 18, 2019, 08:11:23 PM
Maybe they’re doing it but keeping it under wraps. 2am practices followed by film sessions and early breakfast from the secret training menu at the Wine&Dine. Halo drops on a dark summer’s night onto the island of St. Croix. Moving and groovin like disco ninjas.

The only way we’ll ever know is to see if the players get smarter and better. That, and what kind of flavor they bring to their wardrobes.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 18, 2019, 08:39:57 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 18, 2019, 04:22:00 PM
There seems to be a 2 decade trend of not utilizing Clyde.

As facil mentions, Fizz has been bringing in Bernard and Sheed to work with and talk to players.  And other ex-Knix have spoken to the team.

Pat Cummings and Neal Walk are coming to help Mitch when we let DeAndre leave.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on April 18, 2019, 09:47:03 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 18, 2019, 02:57:04 PM
Harden has improved his defense significantly.
GOne are the days when he just spaces out or doesn't bother to react or loses his man totally.  his post defense was surprisingly effective, and I think I read that he was posted up more than any other player.  I don't think HOU is a genuine contender this year and last without Harden playing acceptable defense.  Especially this year after letting Ariza and Luc M&M go.

Knox is athletic, has a good frame, good size, should add muscle easily.  I see no reason he can't become a solid defender. 

Yes. There is a reason. You haven't talked about what's between the ears.

And lol, I can't believe Harden's name is even coming up in a discussion of Knox...spectacular, can always count on Kam to amaze and astound :)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on April 18, 2019, 09:49:41 PM
and R.I.P. Pat Cummings, he brought it for us back during the tough years, or what we thought back at the time were the tough years.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 19, 2019, 03:36:47 AM
Knox seems pretty grounded and mature for 19.
I'd be more confident saying what Knox can and can't do if he played on a more talented organized team, rather than the extended Summer League we just witnessed (which yes, I heartily endorsed).

Knox seems willing to put in the work, doesn't seem to be easily distracted by NYC (hard to know for the fans).  Knix need to implement a development and conditioning program for him.

Encouraging:
- Knox was pretty dominant and aggressive in Summer League.
- Knox was frequently able to dominate a quarter (usually in the 1st half).  Sometimes he looked a bit gassed in the 2nd half. 
75 games and nearly 30 mins per is a lot to ask of a rook. 
- Even in a very up and down year, Knox finished at 34% on 3's.

We knew that Knix chose a young somewhat raw player whose risk/reward factor was high.  I said before the season that the more seasoned Bridges would likely have better rook seasons than Knox.  We are/were looking for the long-term.  On a better team, Knox would have been brought along slower and played less.  All the court time is terrific experience but put his teenage flaws on display too.

Of course the plan, at the time, was to build around a very young core of KZ, Knox, Franc, and hopefully some of Mitch, Trier, Datsun.  Now we've switched to all-in on vet FA's, which again likely won't give Knox the chance to grow and develop slowly.  But the Knix are always about changing the overall plan.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 19, 2019, 04:26:32 AM
We’ll go shopping among the FAs, but I hope we’re not necessarily buying in a big way unless it looks like a home run. Otherwise I want to see smaller moves to get us either upgrades from what a particular kid is likely to grow into or players who slot in with said youth. The team has to have the balls and brains to bat away the striking out noise that would come from the media if they took that path.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 19, 2019, 04:56:54 AM
So you think there's a chance the Knix either whiff on FA or pull back and stick with the yute development program?
Seems like the smart backup, but it's felt like the Knix are pretty all-in on (the next quick fix). 

I think trading Knox now while he has decent value is extremely shortsighted.  But if you add KD and Kyrie, then can you really trot out and year 20 year old who is going to make mistakes, while playing well in spurts?

Forgot to mention Knox highlights:
Rook of Month in December
a 31 point game
15 rebound game
Not bad for 19.
Yeah, he took his lumps too.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on April 19, 2019, 06:22:32 AM
https://www.postingandtoasting.com/2019/3/7/18253643/kevin-knox-has-been-historically-bad-heres-the-stats-to-prove-it (https://www.postingandtoasting.com/2019/3/7/18253643/kevin-knox-has-been-historically-bad-heres-the-stats-to-prove-it)

 [....] The defense is equally appalling. According to Cleaning the Glass, the Knicks have a defensive rating of 117.3 points per 100 possessions (fifth percentile) when Knox is on the court. Knox’s on-off differential is +5.9, meaning the Knicks are roughly six points worse when Knox is on the court. That figure is in the seventh percentile of all wing players.

You might be thinking, “Drew, single-player on-off figures are noisy because there are so many variables that can affect the numbers.” While this is a fair assessment, the adjusted plus-minus figures that control for those factors also support the claim that Knox is a disaster on defense. Knox is 491st of 494 players in defensive RPM (-3.94), 504th of 508 players in defensive RAPM (-1.75), and 485th out of 511 players in defensive PIPM (-1.8). Quick tangent, for some reason PIPM via BBall Index rounds its figure to the nearest tenth and seven players share a figure of -1.8 in DPIPM. Knox may very well be ranked at 485 or have the worst -1.8 figure when the integer is expanded to the hundreth.

PIPM is more forgiving on Knox’s defense than RPM and RAPM, but even if you subscribe to that silver lining, this is very concerning. It’s one thing to be a negative on defense as a rookie in these metrics because, well, you’re young and need to adjust to the speed of the NBA. It’s a whole other thing to be filtering with the worst figures in the entire league and regularly being unaware on the floor like Knox is.

And it’s more than just “worst in the league” for this specific season for Kevin Knox. Since RPM has been available on ESPN (2013–14 season), Knox’s -7.37 RPM is the sixth-worst of all time. Of players who averaged more than 20 minutes per game, Knox has the worst RPM of all time. Over that same time frame for RAPM, Knox’s -3.45 RAPM is the 31st-worst of that sample. Of players who have played more than 1,600 minutes (Knox has played 1,602 minutes so far this season), Knox has the 10th-worst RAPM of that sample.

Let’s also bring BPM into the discussion, because it too isn’t forgiving of Knox. Of the 25-minutes-per-game qualified rookies, Knox has the worst BPM figure (-6.4) of the group. Only Antonio Blakeney and Jamal Crawford have worse BPM figures than Knox this season, and neither player has reached the 1,000 minute mark. Of all players who have played at least 1,600 minutes in a season, Knox’s -6.4 BPM is the second-worst all time during the 3-Point Era. Only John Amaechi posted a nice worse -6.9 BPM in the 2000–01 season.

If you want to point to things such as “he’s young” or “he’s on team where he’s being asked too much” or “he’s in the 62nd percentile in pick-and-roll ball handling and transition points per possession” or “he has a nice floater already,” that’s fine. Some aspects of his game should theoretically improve as Knox gets stronger and gains more experience as a professional.

Even if Knox does improve, it does not change the fact that his impact on the court is, in many cases, the worst in history during specific ranges of NBA seasons. We aren’t talking about a flawed player on one side of the ball, either. Frank Ntilikina took a lot of crap from Knicks fans last year about his play — understandably, given how poor he still is on offense — but he at least had a 1.41 defensive RAPM that was second on the team behind Kristaps Porzingis and ranked 44th in the entire NBA. Knox is posting extremely poor offensive and defensive numbers.



... of course, there's the eye test, too...


*** That's what I used, personally. I don't even know what all those numbers mean, but they sound harrrrrrrrrrrible.


**** but you're feeling good about him, Bo, body, mind and soul so here's hoping you're correct.


OT:
Quote from: lesterdog on April 13, 2019, 10:32:44 PM


** Q: Anyone think Bryn Forbes and Derrick White could've been doing what they were doing last night if they were "developed" by FizDale?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 19, 2019, 08:23:09 AM
Adding a top 5 NBA player and a running mate still in their primes is a "quick fix" now, eh?  While also having a top 5 pick and 6 other first rounders the next 5 years?

Okey doke.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 19, 2019, 10:07:43 AM
Re:  Knox's playing time if we do get Durant+ -

I'd love to see him coming off the bench - but I believe Fizdale with start him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 19, 2019, 10:11:56 AM
Congratulations by the way for noting Bridges would better Knox in year 1.  I believe Knicks thought otherwise.

Nice looking rook in Charlotte.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 19, 2019, 12:17:03 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 19, 2019, 08:23:09 AM
Adding a top 5 NBA player and a running mate still in their primes is a "quick fix" now, eh?  While also having a top 5 pick and 6 other first rounders the next 5 years?
Okey doke.

Trying to go from a 17 W league youngest team to a playoff contender in one year is almost the definition of quick fix.

And there would be ripples and ramifications.  We wouldn't have money for much else.  There'd be a lot of pressure to contend right away, as 30-something Durant doesn't have years to waste.
Knix would probably try to nab a savvy vet or two on the very cheap.  Would likely be packaging out Franc and at least one of Trier/Dot, and maybe Knox, for young vet types.  [something like flipping Knox + for a Hollis-Jefferson type of solid unspectacular role player -- just to whip out an example].

If Kyrie came, likely Jr. Smith would be made available.
Knix wouldn't be able to afford developing and waiting on 2nd and 3rd year players.  So likely we'd have lots of new faces who haven't played together before.  And some patchwork role players.
I'm guessing that only Mitch, Datsun and maybe Kornet would return/remain.  Despite Two Star FA's and a Top 5 draft pick, the Knix would face an uphill peace of mind to get everyone on the same page and become a strong contending team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on April 19, 2019, 12:37:06 PM
Kid, Fac- updated scores sent
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 19, 2019, 12:37:51 PM
"....as 30-something Durant..."

Clear you think he is another Marbury or Carmelo

That's real funny.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 19, 2019, 12:38:46 PM
My apologies - "quick fix", on this board, usually connotes an air of negativity.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 19, 2019, 12:48:38 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on April 19, 2019, 12:37:06 PM
Kid, Fac- updated scores sent

Games played about to become important.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 19, 2019, 12:53:33 PM
I think the Knix knew that Knox was a bit of a project.  That's how he was talked about around draft time.  Young, with lots of potential, but will take time to develop.  We were a development team when we drafted Ft. Knox.

As for his defense.  I tend to give rooks a pass.  Few rooks defend well.  I remember a 19 year old LeBron being very chumpy on D (heh -- I managed to top Kam!).
The two players with worse Defensive Real +/- than Knox last year?  513 Collin Sexton and 514 Trae Young.  Bagley was 492
In the Bottom 10:
505 Lou Williams; 506 Dinwiddie; 510 Crawford -- useful players as they offend at high level.

Mud was 495 of 514.  Not a helluva lot better than Knox.
Devin Book 496; Trier at 490.

Last year, Mud was 517 of 521
(his last year in DEN, every single Nug was better with Mud off the court)
Trey Burke 513th.
Rooks: Malik Monk was 519.  Fox was 509.  This year Fox was 183/514 -- 18th among PG's and in positive territory.  Monk was still bad but slightly better in Y2.

Not saying I'm fine with Crawful level defense from Knox.
But high draft picks turning in abysmal defense in Y1 is fairly common.  I'd like to see improvement next year, and decent defense by 3rd/4th year.  More stable lineups and a more talented teammates would certainly help Knox on D.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 19, 2019, 12:54:09 PM
Some of you must really love Hardaway.

After all you saw us as a solid team for '19-'20 simply with KP and a top 3 pick

Now that we dont have KP and Hardaway but will add Durant and another top name, you call it a tough go......

heh

Seriously - explain it - you were positive then as long as we were tanking for the pick - but negative now.  Maybe there IS some concern about the puppies.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 19, 2019, 12:55:19 PM
By the way - I say NEGATIVE on dealing Smith Jr.  Just dont see a scenario where we would do this.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 19, 2019, 12:56:13 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 19, 2019, 12:37:51 PM
"....as 30-something Durant..."

Clear you think he is another Marbury or Carmelo
That's real funny.

On the Knix, yup.

And I am somewhat negative on the Quick Fix, because I don't think it will yield much.  The Melo years, Pt. II.  But without KZ, it's hard to see what else to hope for, except the 14% Solution (Zion).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 19, 2019, 01:04:36 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 19, 2019, 12:54:09 PM
Some of you must really love Hardaway.
After all you saw us as a solid team for '19-'20 simply with KP and a top 3 pick

I thought Hardaway was part of the problem.  Glad he's gone again.

Not sure how solid we'd be in '19/'20.  I thought we'd be a fun team with lots of young pups to watch incubate.  KZ likely an all-star stud.  Knox developing.  Mitch promising.  Top 5 draft pick. 
Likely we'd be in that somewhat unsightly scrum for 6-8 seed and trying to keep our heads above .500.  I would have gladly taken the Nets season this year for the Knix next year.

We'd have a genuine plan, with a pathway forward, and lots of young players to get behind.  I thought it would take a few years (3 to 5) to contend.  But you can afford to wait when your franchise player is 22 and your last three high picks (including this Summer's) are 20 and under.

I seem to be the only one who thinks trading KZ was a complete disaster that will haunt us for a decade or more, and that we will whiff in FA, mostly because our talent isn't that good and too young.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 19, 2019, 01:27:48 PM
It may have been a disaster that we didnt deal him on draft day 2019.

But lets make that determination when we see what we actually get from the deal moving forward.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 19, 2019, 02:03:31 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on April 19, 2019, 12:37:06 PM
Kid, Fac- updated scores sent

Thanks biz.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 19, 2019, 03:32:22 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 19, 2019, 12:48:38 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on April 19, 2019, 12:37:06 PM
Kid, Fac- updated scores sent

Games played about to become important.

Pretty sure Butler and Russell totals are incorrect
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 19, 2019, 04:48:13 PM
Just saw the Nuggets stats
  Ouch.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 19, 2019, 10:22:54 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 19, 2019, 03:32:22 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 19, 2019, 12:48:38 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on April 19, 2019, 12:37:06 PM
Kid, Fac- updated scores sent

Games played about to become important.

Pretty sure Butler and Russell totals are incorrect


Never mind.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 20, 2019, 11:34:53 AM
Best series so far seems to be POR-OKC.
Just seems to have a playoff intensity and chippiness to it largely lacking elsewhere.

But I haven't seen that much playoff action really.

SAS- DEN is pretty good.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 20, 2019, 11:45:24 AM
Lets see if anyone (Denver, Nets, OKC) can get to 2-2

Not ruling Utah dead yet as they havent played at home yet

Indiana should get their game - and lose in 5.  Celts might be better off - treat the home fans - and limit their layoff time.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on April 20, 2019, 02:37:00 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 19, 2019, 12:55:19 PM
By the way - I say NEGATIVE on dealing Smith Jr.  Just dont see a scenario where we would do this.

If we sign Kemba or Kyrie?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 20, 2019, 04:14:44 PM
yes - even then


not dealing this cat just to clear money
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 20, 2019, 04:26:13 PM
Interesting

https://twitter.com/FanDuel/status/1119651395060293637
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 20, 2019, 08:06:33 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 20, 2019, 04:14:44 PM
yes - even then


not dealing this cat just to clear money

Decent backup pg at decent backup money.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 21, 2019, 04:54:27 AM
Agree that Knix would like to keep Jr. Smith as backup and possible future PG Starter.  But Knox and Smith would be our only decent trade assets -- Trier and Dot could be sweeteners, but have limited value -- and one or both of them would go to bring in a vet starter, say an Aminu/PJ Tucker/Uber type who could start on a playoff team.  If Kyremba comes probably Knox goes and maybe Smith too.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 21, 2019, 05:06:11 AM
UTES blew a key game.
With harden misfiring, the game was there for the taking.
Aroudn 2 mins left, Jingles missed an open 3 that would have put Utah up 2.  It was a 4-on-5 situation as Harden fell down on the baseline on an awkward shot.  Jingles misses, Gordon hit a 3, and HOU up 4.  And UTAh could never close the gap in the last 1:45.

Looked like Harden got away with a charge, but got 2 FT's.  (Maybe Gobert banged him before Harden whacked GoBear in the head(?).  Other end, Mitchell gets a friendly (makeup?) call,

MItch got a pretty good look for a tying 3, but in a semi-crowded area, and no Jazzmen under for the rebound.  Plus with 10 secs left he shot it at 7, so even if he made the tying shot, Rockettes would have plenty of time to get a winning shot off.
Didn't like the UTA out of bounds play much, and they had to run two and burn their final timeout just to get an iffy early shot.  Meh.

UTAH wins and it's a series.  Now they're just Roadkill playing for pride at Home in G4.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 21, 2019, 05:34:40 AM
The killer Jazz quintet this year included Favors.  I can understand wanting to start either Crowder or Royce to guard Harden.  Makes perfect sense.  And they want Jingles out there for another 3-point shooter. 

But UTE defense is best with Gobert and Favors down low.
And then they'd have someone to switch on to Capela when Gobert challenges Harden.
You kind of start losing the battle early when you change your team to match the opp.

I don't know what the best solution is, but G3 Jingles missed a crucial late open 3 with 2 mins left that would have put Jazz up 2.
Then when Mitch missed a 3 with 15 secs left, Jingles man, PJ MotherTucker blasted past Farmer Joe and grabbed the rebound to seal the win. There were 3 jazzmen there, and Jingles simply didn't locate and box his man who crashed in from the baseline.
Crowder/Royce a better bet to have boxed PJT out.

Jingles hasn't been aggressive, hasn't been too effective, and he's the defensive weak link.  I think it was G1, where HOU gave Rubio 3 uncontested corner 3's and he made just 1.  So without a 2nd good 3-point threat, HOU could load up on Mitchell more, and the paint would be more crowded with Favors for Mitch drives.

I would probably just stick with my usual starting 5 (Favors & Jingles), and if Jingles can't guard Harden (mostly by funneling him to GoBear/Favor), and isn't scoring, then you bring in Crowder/Royce.  The main UTA strategy is to sit on Harden's left and force him to drive right.  Jingles can do that.  At the end of G3 it was often Rubio on a switch doing that, and he isn't tall enough to bother Harden's shot (Rubio was timid about even getting a hand close to the shot), so Harden just made 3's next to Rubio.

I'd just rather go to war with my best jazz Quintet.
Hard to believe Favors is just 27, hitting 28 this Summer.
Seems like he's been around forever.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on April 21, 2019, 07:54:45 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 21, 2019, 04:54:27 AM
Agree that Knix would like to keep Jr. Smith as backup and possible future PG Starter.  But Knox and Smith would be our only decent trade assets -- Trier and Dot could be sweeteners, but have limited value -- and one or both of them would go to bring in a vet starter, say an Aminu/PJ Tucker/Uber type who could start on a playoff team.  If Kyremba comes probably Knox goes and maybe Smith too.

I'm with Bo. I think it's more like DSJ is gone next year than he stays.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 21, 2019, 10:15:20 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 21, 2019, 04:54:27 AM
Agree that Knix would like to keep Jr. Smith as backup and possible future PG Starter.  But Knox and Smith would be our only decent trade assets -- Trier and Dot could be sweeteners, but have limited value -- and one or both of them would go to bring in a vet starter, say an Aminu/PJ Tucker/Uber type who could start on a playoff team.  If Kyremba comes probably Knox goes and maybe Smith too.

This is why I said deal Smith only for VALUE
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 21, 2019, 02:18:44 PM
++GS plays like a vet team and closes out quarters strongly.
Been killing Clips in last 3 mins of seemingly every quarter.
+
So what's with Bulldog Drummond?  Is he just a slug?  Low motor?  Doesn't care?  Not in good shape?
Sure he puts up numbers because he's huge.
But he's lazy on defense, lazy changing ends, doesn't bother doing small stuff, just reacts when the ball is near.
Bucks shot a lot of 3's when Drummond sagged and didn't close out.  Drum also 2-8 on FT's. 
Drummond should be having Embiid like dominance, but doesn't seem interested in working for that.

I thought SVG did a good job when he put together Drummond, Reg Jax, added Stan John.  I thought that looked like a genuine core.  But RegJax is always injured, hasn't improved and isn't much of a floor general.  Bucks ripped off their biggest lead in G3, going up 14.  So Reg Jax comes down, does some fancy dribbling and multi-fakes and winds up taking a contested 18 footer over a taller defender.  Ugly, and at the very wrong time.

My one takeaway from the last month of the season is how bad so many players are at reading the moment and understanding what is necessary.  usually after the other team has a big run, and a team needs to settle down and get a good shot and easy basket, you get these knuckleheads taking stupid difficult shots.  Drives me crazy.

Drummond has stagnated.  Gets his and is impactful every 5th game or so.  StanJohn already shipped out.  Nice athlete, strong defender, but limited offense.  Actually SJ is terrific on the break and started adding some dribble drive, but his J is just bad for now.

I have no idea why DET could never put together a bench.  But draft picks such as Ellenson and Kennard and StanJohn haven't panned out.  And since RegJax and Drummond stagnated, even adding Blake hasn't done much except put them in position to get thrashed by MIL.  The last month I saw DET 3 times and mostly just hoped Blake wouldn't hurt himself doing everything out there.  And of course he's very dinged up for these playoffs.  He's Mr Effort.

For years I was keen on adding Bledsoe.  And this year he finally busted out.  Still more of a combo G, but he's playing hard and with confidence and purpose.  Had injuries over the years.  I wanted RegJax too, though less sure if he's be a good starting PG.    He's still not consistent and doesn't run a team well.  Oftentimes DET looks better with Ish at the helm.

I was always down on Boogie and big on Drummond.  But looks like DET should have moved him while he was still intriguing.  Wha't his value now?  The new NBA isn't favorable for a load like Bulldog who isn't going to guard the 3-line at all.  Guy needs to get in shape and learn to make FT's.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 21, 2019, 05:05:20 PM
Kennard has 49 points on 50% shooting
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 22, 2019, 01:11:28 AM
Yeah, he's okay.
Coming around.
Is he going to become a legit starter? 
Or just a bench guy?
Or in between?
Not terribly consistent, and shooting his only calling card.
Playoff experience good for him.

Gallo has had a poor playoffs.
His one good game, the Clips won.
29% FG / 30% on 3's.
He should be their #1 scorer.
11-48 FG in the 3 L's.
1-13 on 3's in the last 2 games.
Ouch.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 22, 2019, 01:29:42 AM
Last 10 DET Draft Picks:
2018 no 1st rounder
2017  #12   Luke Kennard
2016  #18   Henry Ellenson
2015  # 8   Stanley Johnson
2014    No 1st rounder
2013 # 8   Kentavious Caldwell-Pope   
2012 # 9   Andre Drummond
2011 # 8   Brandon Knight
2010 # 7  Greg Monroe
2009 #15 Austin Daye

Last 5 years, only 3 1st round picks and didn't get much.
Two draftees gone, and only Kennard left.

They got stuck in the rut of picking mostly 7-9.
These picks don't even seem bad, just a bunch of average guys, no one who popped.  Maybe Drummond qualifies.
Bulldog Drummond and KCP the only 2 starters in that list.

They had a few good 2nd round picks they moved on from too soon:
2012 #39   Khris Middleton
2014 #38   Spencer Dinwiddie
&
2018 #42   Bruce Brown

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 22, 2019, 07:57:53 AM
Well.....

they have Maker from the Johnson deal

And going past 5 years Brandon Knight actually extends out to the acq of Griffin

Knight+ for Jennings
Jennings+ for T Harris
Harris+ for Griffin

Got nothing for Pope, true
Nothing for Ellenson
Nothing for Monroe (except some big years)

NBA is tough business.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 22, 2019, 09:11:34 AM
Yeah, I thought SVG was building something with RegJax-KCP-StanJohn-Drummond.
Seems like pieces that fit together.  But RegJax didn't make a leap, and Drummond got sluggish.

I'd have to look see how/why those 2 1st rounders went.
And who they passed on with those picks.
But no big mistakes pop out.
Just the players they got had some talent but couldn't put it together or develop enough.
I still find KCP enigmatic.  He's really Courtly 2.0.  A decent two-way player who just is too passive.

My only real knock is year after year they did a poor job of outfitting a bench for years.

Sometimes you build a team and it doesn't work for whatever reason.  Injuries occur,
or chemistry is off (think WAS with Wall-Beal-Porter), young players fail to develop, money
issues force a GM's hand, etc.

I thought DET and WAS were two team that started building nicely in the 21st C Teens,
without it every coming together.  Blake was kind of a last ditch, Hail Mary move for DET.
which (barely) scraped them into the playoffs
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 22, 2019, 01:03:27 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on April 21, 2019, 07:54:45 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 21, 2019, 04:54:27 AM
Agree that Knix would like to keep Jr. Smith as backup and possible future PG Starter.  But Knox and Smith would be our only decent trade assets -- Trier and Dot could be sweeteners, but have limited value -- and one or both of them would go to bring in a vet starter, say an Aminu/PJ Tucker/Uber type who could start on a playoff team.  If Kyremba comes probably Knox goes and maybe Smith too.

I'm with Bo. I think it's more like DSJ is gone next year than he stays.

Even if we don't sign a PG in Free Agency?

Would we re-sign Mudiay??
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 22, 2019, 01:52:30 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 22, 2019, 09:11:34 AM
Yeah, I thought SVG was building something with RegJax-KCP-StanJohn-Drummond.
Seems like pieces that fit together.  But RegJax didn't make a leap, and Drummond got sluggish.

I'd have to look see how/why those 2 1st rounders went.
And who they passed on with those picks.
But no big mistakes pop out.
Just the players they got had some talent but couldn't put it together or develop enough.
I still find KCP enigmatic.  He's really Courtly 2.0.  A decent two-way player who just is too passive.

My only real knock is year after year they did a poor job of outfitting a bench for years.

Sometimes you build a team and it doesn't work for whatever reason.  Injuries occur,
or chemistry is off (think WAS with Wall-Beal-Porter), young players fail to develop, money
issues force a GM's hand, etc.

I thought DET and WAS were two team that started building nicely in the 21st C Teens,
without it every coming together.  Blake was kind of a last ditch, Hail Mary move for DET.
which (barely) scraped them into the playoffs

Detroit -

Jackson is fine.  Stanley was overrated - and they get Maker now for him - one year left on deal.

Kennard will get extended off rook deal, with Jackson, Drummond and Griffin - and another middling pick this year which they may hit on......

Others for '19-20 ---- G Robinson III, Galloway, Mychialuk and Leur.

I dont know Bruce Brown and Khyri Thomas

Possibilities.......

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 22, 2019, 01:59:00 PM
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/washington-wizards/cap/2019/

Wizards

Option on Jabari Parker

Wall, Beal. Howard, Mahinmi...........then wide open.

Crucial to hit on their top ten pick and their FA signings (sounds like NY)
Title: NBA playoffs
Post by: Kam on April 22, 2019, 02:51:45 PM
I haven't watched too much of the playoffs so far.

Only one series tied 2-2 (Denver/SAS)

Boston already swept INDI sans Ola Dipo

Hoping for HOU and MIL to close it out with sweeps on the road tonight.

2nd round can't start soon enough.  Epic Western Clash: Hou vs GS

And the eastern powers collide as well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 22, 2019, 04:01:53 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 22, 2019, 01:59:00 PM
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/washington-wizards/cap/2019/
Wizards
Option on Jabari Parker
Wall, Beal. Howard, Mahinmi...........then wide open.
Crucial to hit on their top ten pick and their FA signings (sounds like NY)

Minimal chance they pick up Jabari's option for $20M
He's maybe worth half that ($8-$10M range).

Wall said he might miss all next year!

Dwight had a wasted year, is 33, and not motivated.
They will be thrilled when Mahinmi finishes the last year on his bloated contract.  $15M per.  For a backup C, a fossil who can't handle the perimeter on either end.
One of many disasters in the nation's capitol.

As for DET, RegJax is okayish.
Probably around 20th best PG (a total guess).
Since Blake can help playmake, you need a 3&D SG next to RegJax.  Good luck finding that.

Blake aging and prone to breaking down.  Especially if they ride him like they did this year, with their perennial weak bench.  Jax and Drummond also miss games.  Going nowhere, they should be looking for a Blake suitor.  Or offload Drummond.

I'd quibble and say StanJohn wasn't overrated, but has underperformed.  Very good athlete, terrific defender, just no shooting ability.  Which has hurt his confidence.

You seem somewhat high on Maker.  He had a terrific Summer League.  But he's raw on both ends.  last game I was watching Drummond's apathy towards 3-point shooters.  Finally Bulldog sits and Maker came in.  So Maker closes out like a demon, flies by after a rudimentary head fake and the shooter drives into the wide open paint.  Long & Raw.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 22, 2019, 04:45:41 PM
Drummond has to play lighter if he wants to continue as a major postseason pivot. Maker is still figuring it out, but he has nice tools to develop and got a post season taste to think about, plus a good stretch working with Drummond and Blake. It will be interesting to see what he does next year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 22, 2019, 07:46:28 PM
Good discussion re:  Detroit.   I think they have a chance.  Of course I dont judge teams by winning a title.  And havent judged their cap space.

On Maker - havent seen him play much, if at all.  But I am pro giving guys a chance to get better.  DET took him on.  Lets see what happens with a full camp.  Has some pros and some cons in statline.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 22, 2019, 07:52:04 PM
Need Bucks and Jazz tonight for the bonus pool points.

But looking forward to seeing Pistons battle.  May even watch Mitchell a little.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 22, 2019, 09:22:39 PM
REGGIE!!!!!!!

Follow slam to end the first half.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 23, 2019, 12:20:18 AM
Looks like that was the last DET highlight.
Bucks 39 in 3Q.
DET 42 in 2nd half.

Maker 5 fouls, 2 Turns in 15 minutes.
I was mildly bullish on him early, but his development has been slow.  It's good he tries to pop in 3's (not bad form the corners), and that he willing to guard outside.  But he should be watching film of our own Mitch Rob. 

UTA containing Harden but just up 1 at home.
Not good.
Mitchell needs to access his inner Wade.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 23, 2019, 09:08:56 AM
Yes.  Nice rescue by Mitchell.

Got a further appreciation fo Blake Griffin last night - not that I needed any.  NBA Radio guys were wondering why he would even play last night.  Clearly they dont understand true warrior athletes.

Casey did a nice job in not pulling Blake from the game - allowing him to just fall on his own sword with his sixth foul, leading to a  thunderous ovation from DET faithful.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on April 23, 2019, 09:17:02 AM
Quote from: Kam on April 22, 2019, 01:03:27 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on April 21, 2019, 07:54:45 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 21, 2019, 04:54:27 AM
Agree that Knix would like to keep Jr. Smith as backup and possible future PG Starter.  But Knox and Smith would be our only decent trade assets -- Trier and Dot could be sweeteners, but have limited value -- and one or both of them would go to bring in a vet starter, say an Aminu/PJ Tucker/Uber type who could start on a playoff team.  If Kyremba comes probably Knox goes and maybe Smith too.

I'm with Bo. I think it's more like DSJ is gone next year than he stays.

Even if we don't sign a PG in Free Agency?

Would we re-sign Mudiay??

No, I'm assuming we sign an FA and choose to trade DSJ for value elsewhere, and spend similar or less money on either Mudiay or a reliable vet backup. I give that a better than even chance - let's say 55%. And 45% that DSJ comes back.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 23, 2019, 09:26:08 AM
Getting virtually nothing but cap space for Porzingis is not a good look for Knicks brass.  I think they will allow DSJ to become a rotation guy here.  I could even see him playing with Kemba or Kyrie - and certainly have a nice vision of DSJ-Barrett if we cant land a FA point and cant afford Emmanuel.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 23, 2019, 12:42:25 PM
A total FUBAR in my O, but I try not to harp on it since apparently no one else here agrees.  But seems to me that if the cap space doesn't turn into gold during FA, that it be a disaster, with or without Jr. Smith on the team.

As for those who oddly cried about DA Jordan's late DNP's, I read somewhere that the Knix offered to release him, if he wanted to latch on with a playoff team.  But he reportedly declined and said he was fine with mentoring.  And Fizz said DAJ was very professional and didn't mind having Mitch start and getting DNP's.
If accurate, a very large disparity from Kanter's tantrums.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 23, 2019, 12:58:35 PM
Blake was a warrior this season, especially when Drummond and others missed time.
I only saw the middle quarters of the UTE game.
And even by the end of the 3Q I was getting ready while trying to keep an eye on it.  Same with first few mins of 4Q.  Didn't see the end or know that Jazz won.
Gotta have some pride, and give your fans a W.

Crowder was the 1st half hero, played hard all night.
Jingles only scored 3 points in 23 mins.
Looks like Favors (24) and Royce (33) got more run.
I think Quinn should have limited Jingles sooner in the series when he was underperforming.  Also, Jazz are best with Favors in the mix.

Rubio looks awful shooting 3's.  Kind of pushes the ball.
Went 1-7 and HOU is happy enough letting him get 3's up.
At least he had 11 assists in this one.  But he either has to start making 3's, or take fewer.  Gotta make open shots.  Or drive and make something happen.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 23, 2019, 01:33:45 PM
Smith walked in where you hope Mudiay will get to if he takes the next step. It would be great for Smith’s career to back up and play in small units with a top shelf experienced PG.

How we do in the lottery and the draft itself will reset the parameters on subsequent free agency push.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 23, 2019, 02:21:36 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 23, 2019, 12:42:25 PM

As for those who oddly cried about DA Jordan's late DNP's, I read somewhere that the Knix offered to release him, if he wanted to latch on with a playoff team.  But he reportedly declined and said he was fine with mentoring.  And Fizz said DAJ was very professional and didn't mind having Mitch start and getting DNP's.
If accurate, a very large disparity from Kanter's tantrums.


Everyone knows how i feel about him and I am not making an excuse for his media outbursts but IN DEFENSE OF KANTER....  he is 26 to Jordan's 30.  So they're at different points of their career with different priorities.

His agent is Mark Bartelstein who also represents Brad Beal and Kyle Kuzma.  So he has good representation.  I don't know who gave him the advice to be a prick but it worked. He got out while maintaining the whole time how he wanted to stay a knick.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 23, 2019, 02:35:19 PM
Kanter got what he needed. May he make the most of his opportunity. He didn’t help us very much & I didn’t expect him to. He was the price of getting rid of Melo.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 23, 2019, 07:02:50 PM
Fiz:  "We laid down our culture"

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2832607?iid=ob_article_organicsidebar_expansion
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on April 23, 2019, 07:22:23 PM
Quote from: Kam on April 23, 2019, 02:21:36 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 23, 2019, 12:42:25 PM

As for those who oddly cried about DA Jordan's late DNP's, I read somewhere that the Knix offered to release him, if he wanted to latch on with a playoff team.  But he reportedly declined and said he was fine with mentoring.  And Fizz said DAJ was very professional and didn't mind having Mitch start and getting DNP's.
If accurate, a very large disparity from Kanter's tantrums.


Everyone knows how i feel about him and I am not making an excuse for his media outbursts but IN DEFENSE OF KANTER....  he is 26 to Jordan's 30.  So they're at different points of their career with different priorities.

His agent is Mark Bartelstein who also represents Brad Beal and Kyle Kuzma.  So he has good representation.  I don't know who gave him the advice to be a prick but it worked. He got out while maintaining the whole time how he wanted to stay a knick.

Yeah, this is a disappointingly dim observation from BD. Not only are they at different places in their careers, but they came to the team at totally different junctures in the season. It's too tedious to bring up the Kanter condemnations again, but I will say that his response and Jordan's response both make sense to me vis-a-vis their careers.
Title: ODDLY am I
Post by: carlos123 on April 23, 2019, 09:25:53 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 23, 2019, 12:42:25 PM

As for those who oddly cried about DA Jordan's late DNP's, I read somewhere that the Knix offered to release him, if he wanted to latch on with a playoff team.  But he reportedly declined and said he was fine with mentoring.  And Fizz said DAJ was very professional and didn't mind having Mitch start and getting DNP's.
If accurate, a very large disparity from Kanter's tantrums.

ODDLY I cried, and as a result got TOTALLY HUMBLED by the infinite wisdom of the one who knows it all.

What were the conditions of Jordan's release? I just don't know them, or if there was any offer. But BoZ sure knows.

How is it ok to DNP a very good player still in his prime in the final 7 games of a contract year?

Maybe Berman is THE SOURCE. https://nypost.com/2019/04/04/deandre-jordan-open-to-knicks-future-even-with-awkward-present/ (https://nypost.com/2019/04/04/deandre-jordan-open-to-knicks-future-even-with-awkward-present/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 24, 2019, 07:21:19 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on April 23, 2019, 09:25:53 PM
What were the conditions of Jordan's release? I just don't know them, or if there was any offer. But BoZ sure knows.
Quote from: bodiddley on April 23, 2019, 12:42:25 PM
I read somewhere ...  But he reportedly declined ...  And Fizz said ... If accurate ...

Uh, not sure I could have qualified more or made my source and belief in it sound any vaguer.  I'll work on that in the future.
Really that's just a plain bad faith interp of what I wrote.
If the article I saw had definite info I would have searched for it and provided the link. 

My point was that the Knix concluded there was no benefit in playing DeAndre the last 7 games (maybe we could have won 18 games!).
If it's true the Knix offered to waive him, then they were solid with him.  Why he wouldn't want to leave and get onto a playoff team is unclear to me.  Which makes me wonder about the rumor/report.

If true, then it's pretty clear that DeAtheGiant just ain't in the Knix future plans.  But I guess 7 end-season DNP's underscored that as well.  I assume  because of his age, the promise of Mitch, wanting to use cap space elsewhere, the C glut, and the devaluing of big, slow C's.  And if the Knickers decided he wasn't in their plans, it makes sense they offered to set him free.
_____________________________________________________

Sure the Kant situation is somewhat different.  But it is a situation he opted into, when the Knix would most likely have preferred not paying him $18M.  Kant also made it pretty clear during the season that he was all about stats and his own value.  Which isn't exactly uncommon on a losing team with one year contracts.  But also a reason such teams fragment and lose.

Kant pretty quickly complained in the media, undermining a new coach of a young team.  And in the end, the Knix did him a solid and set him free.  I thought Kant and his agent could have handled things quieter behind the scenes and got the same result without adding controversy and distractions to the team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 24, 2019, 07:57:00 AM
I found it odd that many here jumped into DeAndre's corner and used that as a knock on Fizz.

That Berman article, complete with quotes from DeAndre, makes it clear that Fizz worked it out with Jordan who agreed to sit the last 7 games.
Quote
the Knicks coach said he would not have engineered this move to Robinson-Kornet unless Jordan gave the full stamp of approval.

It doesn't address whether the Knix offered to let him go, which is what I read somewhere or other.

DeAndre seems like a likeable guy.
Who was it who was really big on him early?  Klint, I'm pretty sure.
Which he caught flack for for a few years.

DeAndre was a 2nd rounder, #35 pick, so I bet he can identify with Mitch, a #36 pick 10 years later.  Really is there anyone else with a more similar profile upon entering the NBA?

Here's a fun article on Mitch from March:
https://www.si.com/nba/2019/03/07/mitchell-robinson-new-york-knicks-rookie-mysterious-shot-blocker
Good illustrative vid clips, though all against crummy teams.
Mitch hedging out on a G beyond the 3-point line than getting back to get a block on an F on the baseline is impressive.
Mitch blocking a step-back 3 is kind of crazy.

Quote
In just 918 minutes, Robinson has blocked more total three-point attempts this season than any other player—and, for that matter, than half the NBA’s teams.

That was from early March.
I guessed earlier that Mitch might have led the league in blocked 3-pointers.  Who else even does it?  I couldn't get their stat-link to open, and not sure where to find blocked 3's elsewhere.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 24, 2019, 08:07:49 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 23, 2019, 07:02:50 PM
Fiz:  "We laid down our culture"

Basically just a throwaway line at the end of a longer spiel about other matters (FA, draft and yute).  But that's Fizz.  He's an optimist, a PR-speak guy and a bit of a BSer.  Which put me on guard against him when we first hired him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 24, 2019, 09:23:38 AM
No - are you saying Mitch is the superior player to Jordan over the next season?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 24, 2019, 09:27:05 AM
Unfair re:  Kanter

Enes knows - and its true - that our chances to win games was greater with him getting big minutes.

So no... It wasn't all about "his stats".

I would say Kanter hated to lose MORE than the next guy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on April 24, 2019, 09:32:22 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 24, 2019, 08:07:49 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 23, 2019, 07:02:50 PM
Fiz:  "We laid down our culture"

Basically just a throwaway line at the end of a longer spiel about other matters (FA, draft and yute).  But that's Fizz.  He's an optimist, a PR-speak guy and a bit of a BSer.  Which put me on guard against him when we first hired him.

Yeah, now, if he can only show signs of being a good coach. I really loved this guy earlier in the season, his energy and pluck. Thought it was refreshing. But after awhile, it just seemed mystifying what they worked on in practices. Yes, most teams had more talent than we did. But it felt like we were outcoached every game. That he failed to put the players in a position to win. That kind of tanking is dismal.

For what it's worth, I thought DeAndre showed us he could still play at a very high level. I know the money might not work out, but I'd love to have him stay here with Mitch.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on April 24, 2019, 09:33:07 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 24, 2019, 09:27:05 AM
Unfair re:  Kanter

Enes knows - and its true - that our chances to win games was greater with him getting big minutes.

So no... It wasn't all about "his stats".

I would say Kanter hated to lose MORE than the next guy.

That's a great way of putting it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 24, 2019, 09:59:57 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 24, 2019, 09:23:38 AM
No - are you saying Mitch is the superior player to Jordan over the next season?

Not at all.  Maybe in 2 or 3 years they will be even, as DeAtheG declines and Mitch develops. 

All about the money:
Mitch is cheap.
You can pick up a decent quality C cost-effectively. 
The C position isn't as important as before. 
We want to spend on s*t*a*r*s.

If DeAndre would come back for $5M, I assume Knix would be thrilled.  Great mentor for Mitch.
The longshot is that Durant comes, leading to Kyrie or Kemba joining ... then DeAndre decides to sign a cheap one year deal to play on a suddenly very interesting NY team.  Dredge up another starter, add in the draft pick, cash in some of our yute.
See if Fizz can coach . . .
(he'll probably look better with genuine NBA talent ...)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 24, 2019, 10:11:01 AM
Quote from: elephant on April 24, 2019, 09:32:22 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 24, 2019, 08:07:49 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 23, 2019, 07:02:50 PM
Fiz:  "We laid down our culture"

Basically just a throwaway line at the end of a longer spiel about other matters (FA, draft and yute).  But that's Fizz.  He's an optimist, a PR-speak guy and a bit of a BSer.  Which put me on guard against him when we first hired him.

Yeah, now, if he can only show signs of being a good coach. I really loved this guy earlier in the season, his energy and pluck. Thought it was refreshing. But after awhile, it just seemed mystifying what they worked on in practices. Yes, most teams had more talent than we did. But it felt like we were outcoached every game. That he failed to put the players in a position to win. That kind of tanking is dismal.

For what it's worth, I thought DeAndre showed us he could still play at a very high level. I know the money might not work out, but I'd love to have him stay here with Mitch.

Yes

All of it.

Good post.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 24, 2019, 11:12:58 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 24, 2019, 09:27:05 AM
I would say Kanter hated to lose MORE than the next guy.

I'd say Kant hated to lose out on a big contract next year.
If he was so much about winning he wouldn't have opted into the Knix, and would have gone to a better team, one that was trying and capable of winning.
He wanted to put up all-star stats, according to him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on April 24, 2019, 12:56:56 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 24, 2019, 07:21:19 AM
I thought Kant and his agent could have handled things quieter behind the scenes and got the same result without adding controversy and distractions to the team.

I would agree with this.


Quote from: bodiddley on April 24, 2019, 11:12:58 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 24, 2019, 09:27:05 AM
I would say Kanter hated to lose MORE than the next guy.

I'd say Kant hated to lose out on a big contract next year.
If he was so much about winning he wouldn't have opted into the Knix, and would have gone to a better team, one that was trying and capable of winning.
He wanted to put up all-star stats, according to him.

But this I think is unfair. He wasn't getting $18m any other way. He had to opt in, it made no sense not to. Once he opted in, I thought he came ready to play his game, and he did effectively. Problem was he wasn't a great team player, however - he needed Hezonja to tell him to cheer, he made his DNPs too much of a story, he was unable to adjust his game at all (although he is passing more/better in Portland, it seems). Both the Knicks and Kanter were put in a tough position, Kanter could have handled it better, and he's playing great in Portland now. I'm happy for him and I'm cheering for him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 24, 2019, 01:22:19 PM
He should take a journeyman contract in Portland for a couple of years then look for a payday. That team really masks his flaws and gives him the best chance to continue changing his rep in the league.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 24, 2019, 01:34:36 PM
Quote from: elephant on April 24, 2019, 09:33:07 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 24, 2019, 09:27:05 AM
Unfair re:  Kanter

Enes knows - and its true - that our chances to win games was greater with him getting big minutes.

So no... It wasn't all about "his stats".

I would say Kanter hated to lose MORE than the next guy.

That's a great way of putting it.

So Kornet and Mitch are ok with losing..... riiiiiiight.

That goes back to the point Bo made about Enes opting in.   EVERYONE knew the Knicks weren't trying to compete this year.   Enes didn't read the memo.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 24, 2019, 01:38:08 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on April 24, 2019, 12:56:56 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 24, 2019, 07:21:19 AM

He wanted to put up all-star stats, according to him.

But this I think is unfair. He wasn't getting $18m any other way. He had to opt in, it made no sense not to. Once he opted in, I thought he came ready to play his game, and he did effectively.

He got his money AND wanted his STATS.   You can't have everything.  On a young team minutes go to development.  If he didn't know or acknowledge that, its on him.
Title: ODDLY am I
Post by: carlos123 on April 24, 2019, 01:40:27 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 24, 2019, 07:21:19 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on April 23, 2019, 09:25:53 PM
What were the conditions of Jordan's release? I just don't know them, or if there was any offer. But BoZ sure knows.
Quote from: bodiddley on April 23, 2019, 12:42:25 PM
I read somewhere ...  But he reportedly declined ...  And Fizz said ... If accurate ...

Uh, not sure I could have qualified more or made my source and belief in it sound any vaguer.  I'll work on that in the future.
Really that's just a plain bad faith interp of what I wrote.
If the article I saw had definite info I would have searched for it and provided the link. 

Oh, what a lesson... in sanctimony.
First I ODDLY have an opinion (about Jordan) that doesn’t meet BoZ’s standards of non-oddity.
And then I show my BAD FAITH by questioning BoZ’s infinite wisdom when stating IRONICALLY  that he sure knows something we odds don’t.
Aren’t we blessed to have Mr. Know-it-all to tell us off when we’re odd or when we interpret what he wrote in plain bad faith?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 24, 2019, 01:45:12 PM
You guys keep harping on Enes wanting to win....

OK i'll play along....

Let's say Fizzdale forfeited decision-making on C minutes to Enes and Enes played 36 mpg and put up 20/15


How many more wins do we have?


A) 3?

B) 5?

C) 7?

D) 9?

E) More?


OK then what happens?  Enes becomes a Free Agent.


For us NOTHING changes except worse draft position.  (and a lesser mitch)


You think FIZZDALE wouldn't rather have more wins on his ledger??


He didn't play ENES because playing ENES (at best) would only benefit Fiz's W-L record and not the Knicks future.


We should all THANK FIZZ
Title: Thank you Fizzy
Post by: carlos123 on April 24, 2019, 01:59:36 PM
Quote from: Kam on April 24, 2019, 01:45:12 PM


OK NO changes except worse draft position.  (and a lesser mitch)


You think FIZZDALE wouldn't rather have more wins on his ledger??


He didn't play ENES because playing ENES (at best) would only benefit Fiz's W-L record and not the Knicks future.


We should all THANK FIZZ

Ok, thank you Fizzy.

Now go away. Or go to the FO. You did a good job re. draft position.

Now we need a real coach.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 24, 2019, 01:59:48 PM
Quote from: Kam on April 24, 2019, 01:34:36 PM
Quote from: elephant on April 24, 2019, 09:33:07 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 24, 2019, 09:27:05 AM
Unfair re:  Kanter

Enes knows - and its true - that our chances to win games was greater with him getting big minutes.

So no... It wasn't all about "his stats".

I would say Kanter hated to lose MORE than the next guy.

That's a great way of putting it.

So Kornet and Mitch are ok with losing..... riiiiiiight.

That goes back to the point Bo made about Enes opting in.   EVERYONE knew the Knicks weren't trying to compete this year.   Enes didn't read the memo.

Opting in was a great way to earn a new KNICKS contract, which he definitely wanted.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 24, 2019, 02:03:01 PM
Quote from: Kam on April 24, 2019, 01:45:12 PM
You guys keep harping on Enes wanting to win....

OK i'll play along....

Let's say Fizzdale forfeited decision-making on C minutes to Enes and Enes played 36 mpg and put up 20/15


How many more wins do we have?


A) 3?

B) 5?

C) 7?

D) 9?

E) More?


OK then what happens?  Enes becomes a Free Agent.


For us NOTHING changes except worse draft position.  (and a lesser mitch)


You think FIZZDALE wouldn't rather have more wins on his ledger??


He didn't play ENES because playing ENES (at best) would only benefit Fiz's W-L record and not the Knicks future.


We should all THANK FIZZ

We would keep our self respect.  And Fizz's culture would be improved.
Wasn't just about Enes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 24, 2019, 02:14:39 PM
Maybe Enes will team up with Jimmer some day. At the Big 3 level I’m guessing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 24, 2019, 03:03:21 PM
What usually happens on this forum.....

 

LOUDMOUTHS hated Kanter from the start - thought he couldnt play - read:  wouldnt put up numbers here.  So they need to hold out against any glimmer, let alone a boatload of solid play by the man they unwisely made their target.

"Kanter cant play"
"Jimmer will never be back in the league"

Mwahhh wahhhhh....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on April 24, 2019, 03:39:00 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 24, 2019, 01:22:19 PM
He should take a journeyman contract in Portland for a couple of years then look for a payday. That team really masks his flaws and gives him the best chance to continue changing his rep in the league.

Come on, he has to take the money when he can get it. Dude is damn-near stateless. If someone offers double what the Blazers offer, he should take it. He's vulnerable.
Title: Enes Kanter thanks the Knicks for waving him
Post by: Kam on April 24, 2019, 04:58:52 PM
Dick move from a dick.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 24, 2019, 05:00:56 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on April 24, 2019, 03:39:00 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 24, 2019, 01:22:19 PM
He should take a journeyman contract in Portland for a couple of years then look for a payday. That team really masks his flaws and gives him the best chance to continue changing his rep in the league.

Come on, he has to take the money when he can get it. Dude is damn-near stateless. If someone offers double what the Blazers offer, he should take it. He's vulnerable.

Dude... put down the violin.  He can get American citizenship.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on April 24, 2019, 05:16:10 PM
That Kid continues to take credit for foresight in predicting Jimmer being "back" in the NBA, rather than as a publicity stunt signing by a dysfunctional team again proves it to me:

Kid knows things. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 24, 2019, 05:56:57 PM
No great foresight necessary.  Dude can play.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 24, 2019, 06:08:36 PM
Here's a bone for ya.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/deadspin.com/complete-farce-of-a-basketball-team-ends-blowout-loss-i-1833575154/amp
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 24, 2019, 10:19:02 PM
Chance for lead - Mitchell passes off to Rubio.

Ouch.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 24, 2019, 10:26:03 PM
Jazz could use a Kanter.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 24, 2019, 10:37:35 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on April 24, 2019, 03:39:00 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 24, 2019, 01:22:19 PM
He should take a journeyman contract in Portland for a couple of years then look for a payday. That team really masks his flaws and gives him the best chance to continue changing his rep in the league.

Come on, he has to take the money when he can get it. Dude is damn-near stateless. If someone offers double what the Blazers offer, he should take it. He's vulnerable.

He should already has stupid money from the last contract. Steady employment that burnishes his reputation should be more valueable. He’s already in the citizenship process. A couple of years at around the mle should buy him a vast swath of the great north woods as he needs to worry about his security based on his political situation.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 25, 2019, 01:38:18 AM
I can see how Kanter's political worries and justifiable paranoia might have affected how he dealt with the Knix.  The guy is under some pressure.

But saying he's near-stateless so he needs to cash in is a little rich.  Kant made $18M last year.  And the year before.  He could buy a Palestinian or Syrian refugee camp.  Whole thing -- people and UN guards included.  Being an elite level hoopster, he could also probably easily arrange Philippine or some other citizenship in a pinch.   He's got a US green card and is on the path to citizenship.  He also has a legit asylum claim in the US, which he likely won't need to use.  But that's another backup option.

I like that he's stood up to Erdogan, and kept his beliefs despite substantial hardships being attached to that decision.  I like that he plays hard, and at least tries on D.  I didn't like his complaining, but maybe I just had Craw flashbacks.

Like Craw, Kant's best role going forward could well be as a bench energizer who beasts 2nd units.  Of course he'll want starter money and probably minutes.  Be interesting to see what he signs for and who wants him.

Just scanning the standings, only Memf and CLE popped out as teams needing a starting C.  Probably some others.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 25, 2019, 01:46:48 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 24, 2019, 10:19:02 PM
Chance for lead - Mitchell passes off to Rubio.
Ouch.

Yup, Rubio airballed a corner 3 over the rim with around 1:10 left, Jazz down 1.  Sad.  Thereafter, the Jazzmen got stripped 3 times in the paint.  DMitch twice, one after an O-board, one on a drive (poked away by a helping Gordon), and Harden with 5 fouls poked the ball away from Gobert.  This was all while the game was within 3 points.  Great hands and strips by HOU.  UTA had ops, could have forced a G6 in UTA easily and been in position to make it a 7G series. 

Blown ops.  Harden had 5 fouls, I thought they needed to go at him strong. 

I think Jingles best years are behind him.  Might need to be a 6th man.  If you're going to play GoBear and Favors, you need another aggressive 3-shooter and driver to pair with Mitchell. 
Jingles looking too limited pn O, and he's their weakest defender.  He's a nice player, but they could use a starting SF upgrade.  (did someone order an Uber?).
Relying on Rubio 3's is death.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 25, 2019, 04:34:29 AM
Clips are staying alive.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 25, 2019, 09:29:56 AM
Ingles would be a good Knick.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 25, 2019, 12:04:23 PM
To correct my last post.
Mitchel got stripped down low after an O-board just inside the 2 min mark.  Not after Rubio's over-the-rim-shot.

And re-watching the Mitchell pass to Rubio was a good basketball play.  He was open, there were guys underneath for a rebound.  1 pt game, and 1:12 when the pass was made, so still decent amount of time.  Maybe should have kept the ball and forced the issue, but an open guy in the corner ...
A play just a little before that Mitchell passed to O'Neale who missed a right elbow 3.  Not really Donovan's fault the guys' he set up couldn't knock down open shots in the clutch.  Just needed one of those 2 to drop . . .

The other two HOU strips were inside 1 min and really sealed the win.  Harden picked up his 5th foul with about 3:40 left.   I would have tried to get him out of the game.  Or at least get easy baskets if he played it cautiously.  NBA coaches rarely seem to try to get a player in foul trouble or foul him out when a guy has 5.  Not sure why, since sans Harden, Rockettes would have a tougher time.  Make Chris Paul force things.

I'd have to look over the series, but sure seemed Capela outplayed or at least outhustled GoBear.  GoBear just didn't seem locked in, including getting stripped by Harden just before a rim attack that would have cut it to 1 with ~34 secs left.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 25, 2019, 01:17:23 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 24, 2019, 10:26:03 PM
Jazz could use a Kanter.

Jazz could use a Blake Griffin!
They desperately need another player who can create his own shot.

Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 11, 2019, 09:30:33 AM
Key to Utah-Hou is MITCHELL, plain and simple.
No.  He will not get it done.

I talked about Rubio and Jingles as keys.
And both underperformed leading to the result.
But you were probably more on the money saying it was up to Mitchell and he would come up short.
Rocky season for him.  Tough playoffs as well.
If he made that late 3 in I think it was G2, things coulda been different.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 25, 2019, 09:35:02 PM
C'mon, Jamaal!

(No way Nuggets win a game 7)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on April 25, 2019, 10:13:26 PM
As a 11 year old kid, I watched jarring John, the bouncing Buck Eye from Ohio State, as a rookie and marveled at his tireless energy and all-around excellence first as a C's 6th man and then as a true NBA super star. He was an all-time great and legend.

I feel older and much sadder learning of his passing.

RIP Hondo
Title: Hey Fac
Post by: carlos123 on April 25, 2019, 10:18:06 PM
Nice pic you got

(http://www.motherjones.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/20180803-trumpputinsign-2000.jpeg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 26, 2019, 02:26:51 AM
Havlicek one of the all-time greats.
A little before my time, but I recall a tribute to him at the RAC (Rutgers) during a Nets game on his farewell tour.
8 titles in 15 years.  Played hard every game.
So in his final season, age 37, Hondo played all 82 games, averaged 34 min per, and put up 16 / 4 / 4.
(while 37 40 years ago was more like 40 today)
2 seasons Havlicek averaged over 45 mins per game.
Skilled and relentless.
Title: Re: Hey Fac
Post by: facilitatorn on April 26, 2019, 02:45:49 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on April 25, 2019, 10:18:06 PM
Nice pic you got

(http://www.motherjones.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/20180803-trumpputinsign-2000.jpeg)

If you could only see where Putin has put his other hand...
Title: Uh Oh
Post by: Kam on April 26, 2019, 04:36:50 PM
When was the last time the NY Knicks and the NY Giants both take a Duke player with their #1 pick?


I guess we're getting Morant
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 26, 2019, 05:09:09 PM
As long as it is top 3....

4-5....  well..you really have to think.

A ballhawk like Hachimura Pippen does fit.  Why is it nobody is looking for the next Scottie?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 26, 2019, 06:20:44 PM
For a Pippen you might try Clarke or Culver. Rui might grow up into a Harrison Barnes type. Might.
Title: Re: Hey Fac
Post by: carlos123 on April 26, 2019, 09:28:42 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 26, 2019, 02:45:49 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on April 25, 2019, 10:18:06 PM
Nice pic you got

(http://www.motherjones.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/20180803-trumpputinsign-2000.jpeg)

If you could only see where Putin has put his other hand...

I dunno ... Blonde with a big booty ...

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/oKIUVlWq5GztVabwAxMsKE1-jWE5wamWG7HwMavDIevrTAk-jHRTsdMdeU0xAUvUiNozfuGT-AtKac1t-zFu2UgTwgclkVUM9Qn0fNH4ojhvBnBlMrNwBe8cgJAsSY3J-oqLxo68ltYf6hGI5bUsAdU9Vzhi0oaBd3dWnkoyTbe0rPApkJHoTkc_x8soYzQH6hhQ5D4j0Wi_hkClnebeEs-aLnrR9dR_2jIFQaTznD3OxN3FPTpnbiTq3potpqNFllGTQco7BeKC9SZwGn2LQSgfW7DgDyUcmNkywQcsfNZs-QeTXkQyw_WxJgPNn_0exlE2uOLDZys8BJ009YDllqy_ERADUB7hTYQBXSt5iw5ZlrxnrRCMY0ivyukHDjVQYuj4W0gpr4ZxWDa4_H0Xl8KRaqZilEHdPa5edyx9Er5_L-qB0iT13RPH-E-eeKbqeuv47OtipqYf2Ubhpwib9vAA8nM5UxMk92zTs-R2hLhnrT_HeunqxdgxkBqjoiPM2jP9mJq1O5P2zyAy6esvLFjoR5MandwxFf1RFr6B_Bi7oYhXWwuXL9EbkDPGqxk0wab2mNG15pH3bM0aWxU3fxttBCPOaJ-48gJQgo1aNda20VNkt2EGRVIv58U67JAPWU-myhANLm88MfiugYzxBVQV_gb2wo0=w308-h230-no)

Here?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 26, 2019, 09:42:45 PM
Quote
A ballhawk like Hachimura Pippen does fit. 
Why is it nobody is looking for the next Scottie?

Always should be looking for 2-way players.

But how many Pippen types are there?
Moncrief, Pippen, Paul George, Kawhi ...
And at a young age it's hard to evaluate guys who have solid all-around games without any one standout feature.

Pippen was a #5 pick but traded on draft night for Olden Polynice.
Kawhi #15; Paul George #10

Btw, the original pick #5 pick used by Seattle to draft Pippen:
Quote
November 12, 1986: Traded by the New York Knicks (as a future 1987 1st round draft pick) with a 1990 2nd round draft pick (Steve Henson was later selected) to the Seattle SuperSonics for Gerald Henderson and a 1987 1st round draft pick (Mark Jackson was later selected).

Pippen might have had more of a Paul George career if he didn't team up with Jordan.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 26, 2019, 11:37:31 PM
I find it interesting that some of the best wing defenders in today's NBA were 2nd round draft picks: Dray, Middleton, Covington

Did LAC come to win.
Sure it's tough when Durant is hitting everything, but Clips don't look focused.  I was calling for Gallo to assert himself.  And soon after he drove by Dray and dunked.  But Gallo also missed a 3 in each corner on B2B possessions then went back to being tentative.  Had an open 3 and passed off to JM Green for a 3.

Clips traps and double-teams haven't been effective.  Getting burned by passing.  I'd drop that.  GSW switching nicely.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 27, 2019, 08:56:28 AM
Articles kicking around ESPn and elsewhere saying Durant is likely to come to NYC.  A bit unclear what it's all based on, except some players feeling that way, possibly including some Warriors.  His agent is a Knick fan.  Other vague dots.  Etc.  But it's a rumor that persisting.

I guess NYK fans should root for the Bucks to knock off the Celts (for Kyrie).  Since Durant not coming here alone.  Not sure if what GSW does matters.  Kemba would probably take our money and ditch CHA if we had Durant locked up (and Kyrie wasn't leaving BOS).

Probably Durant Knix only hope of a BIG FA Summer.
Kawhi and Klay certainly don't seem like NY guys.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 27, 2019, 05:15:05 PM
I picked TOR to win the East.
And with Embiid hobbled they have to be definite favorites to beat PHI. 

Guess I'll go with MIL over BOS.
But this should be a terrific series.
A real test for both teams.
Wouldn't be surprised to see 2 blowouts during the series.
Both teams can hit slumps.

A shame Smart and Brogdon are out.  2 key role players.
I think Middleton and Tatum are keys to the series.  Maybe Hayward ...  Also, who will be more consistent, Kyrie or Bled?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 27, 2019, 06:09:38 PM
Milwaukee - Boston will be fun. Philly is a bit of a mystery. No first round upsets so potentially competitive the rest of the way
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 27, 2019, 08:17:00 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 26, 2019, 09:42:45 PM
Quote
A ballhawk like Hachimura Pippen does fit. 
Why is it nobody is looking for the next Scottie?

Always should be looking for 2-way players.

But how many Pippen types are there?
Moncrief, Pippen, Paul George, Kawhi ...
And at a young age it's hard to evaluate guys who have solid all-around games without any one standout feature.

Pippen was a #5 pick but traded on draft night for Olden Polynice.
Kawhi #15; Paul George #10

Btw, the original pick #5 pick used by Seattle to draft Pippen:
Quote
November 12, 1986: Traded by the New York Knicks (as a future 1987 1st round draft pick) with a 1990 2nd round draft pick (Steve Henson was later selected) to the Seattle SuperSonics for Gerald Henderson and a 1987 1st round draft pick (Mark Jackson was later selected).

Pippen might have had more of a Paul George career if he didn't team up with Jordan.

Pippen dwarfs Paul George
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 27, 2019, 08:20:56 PM
Houston in 6

to go with

Milwaukee in 7
Toronto in 5
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 27, 2019, 08:26:22 PM
For the player points pool I suppose I need to pick a one point guy to replace D Russell.

I will work on that before tomorrow (obviously I cant choose a Raptor or Sixer, since they strated round 2 already)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 27, 2019, 08:35:39 PM
My total should be

Harden  139
Leonard  139
Russell  97
Irving  90
Butler   79
Ibaka  47
===========

591
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 28, 2019, 12:06:59 AM
GARY HARRIS for Russell.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 28, 2019, 06:47:25 AM
Weird ugly G7.
At least SAS made a late run and got within 2.
Rudy Gay kept them in it 1st half, even if he had to try to do too much.  Spurs started and finished the game unable to get any rebounds.  2nd chance points helped put NUGs ahead, then Spurs couldn't get a rebound late.

LMA was mostly useless.
DeMar had his usual playoff deflation, but scored okay 2nd half (after a terrible 1st half,m where he'd drive into paint traffic.
Belineli looked spent and got beat backdoor frequently.  He did move the ball, but looked half-retired.

Jokic picked up 2 (and what could have been a 3rd) completely unnecessary fouls.  Had a triple-double and scored late over LMA when DEN needed points.  Milsap was useless until he scored twice late (over LMA, I think?).
DEN won despite going 2-20 on 3's.
Gary Harris hit a key late 3.

Weird game.
DEN barely survived.
Experience is important in the playoffs.
We'll see if MIL can overcome their newbieness.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on April 28, 2019, 07:57:31 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 27, 2019, 08:26:22 PM
For the player points pool I suppose I need to pick a one point guy to replace D Russell.

I will work on that before tomorrow (obviously I cant choose a Raptor or Sixer, since they strated round 2 already)

I say you can, as the first round didn't end until the following game. But you won't find a better pick than Gary Harris, I'm thinking. Let me know if you want to change. Here are the new prices (and McConnell was meant to be McCollum, my mistake, hope that's obvious):

$8: Giannis, Curry, KD

$7: Harden, Kawhi, Embiid,

$6: Klay, Lillard, Jokic, Kyrie, Butler, (PG13)

$5: Tobias, Middleton, J Murray,  McCollum

$4: B Simmons, Lowry, Bledsoe, CP3, Siakam, Draymond, (Westbrook), (Mitchell)

$3: Capela, JJ Redick, Tatum, (Bojan)

$2: Everyone else, (Derozan, Aldridge, D’Angelo, Adams, Sweet Lou)


I should replace my Adams with Gary Harris, but don't want to steal your good idea. So I'll take Millsap. And Westbrook becomes Siakam.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 28, 2019, 08:29:04 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 27, 2019, 08:56:28 AM
Articles kicking around ESPn and elsewhere saying Durant is likely to come to NYC.  A bit unclear what it's all based on, except some players feeling that way, possibly including some Warriors.  His agent is a Knick fan.  Other vague dots.  Etc.  But it's a rumor that persisting.

I guess NYK fans should root for the Bucks to knock off the Celts (for Kyrie).  Since Durant not coming here alone.  Not sure if what GSW does matters.  Kemba would probably take our money and ditch CHA if we had Durant locked up (and Kyrie wasn't leaving BOS).

Probably Durant Knix only hope of a BIG FA Summer.
Kawhi and Klay certainly don't seem like NY guys.

Durant, Jordan, Barrett - add vet PG and play
Durant, Jordan, Marant........and play
Durant, Williamson, add second big free agent, OK with Smith at point......play

Will Durant wait?  What FA signs with uswhile he does - and do we lose out on Jordan in the meantime?
I wonder if conversations with agents start, "If KD is coming........." or if they deal with players just by recruiting them with current roster in mind?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 28, 2019, 01:22:28 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on April 28, 2019, 07:57:31 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 27, 2019, 08:26:22 PM
For the player points pool I suppose I need to pick a one point guy to replace D Russell.

I will work on that before tomorrow (obviously I cant choose a Raptor or Sixer, since they strated round 2 already)

I say you can, as the first round didn't end until the following game. But you won't find a better pick than Gary Harris, I'm thinking. Let me know if you want to change. Here are the new prices (and McConnell was meant to be McCollum, my mistake, hope that's obvious):

$8: Giannis, Curry, KD

$7: Harden, Kawhi, Embiid,

$6: Klay, Lillard, Jokic, Kyrie, Butler, (PG13)

$5: Tobias, Middleton, J Murray,  McCollum

$4: B Simmons, Lowry, Bledsoe, CP3, Siakam, Draymond, (Westbrook), (Mitchell)

$3: Capela, JJ Redick, Tatum, (Bojan)

$2: Everyone else, (Derozan, Aldridge, D’Angelo, Adams, Sweet Lou)


I should replace my Adams with Gary Harris, but don't want to steal your good idea. So I'll take Millsap. And Westbrook becomes Siakam.

Are we working out of our change or do we replace the bucks for the guy not moving forward?

If I’m going cheap, Wil Barton Sterling Brown , Iggy, and Mo Harkless
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 28, 2019, 03:02:36 PM
Gad, MIL looks terrible.
I though they come out strong and then they'd barely hang on in a low-scoring 2nd half.  Well, I did call a few blowouts ...

Bled looks shaky.  I thought he was playing real confident and would boost MIL.  But he's never been there before.

MIL doesn't try for O-boards at all.  Think that's a mistake.  And even so, there transition D has been fair.  Speaking of D, Hill has been right with Kyrie, but unable to stop him.  Cannaughton tries hard but is overmatched v. everybody.  BOS getting a ton of 8-10 foot paint shots.

BOS is tough when Horford and Kyrie are on their games.  And they're vets ready for this stuff. 

MIL had Kyrie guarding Mirotic a number of times and didn't do anything with it.  Once they overthrew a lob to Mirrortrick for a turnover.

My whole post-season mantra has been Experience.  I should have stuck with it.  No substitute for playoff experience.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on April 28, 2019, 03:24:12 PM
When the Celts play D like that, they can beat anyone

horford was the best player on the court today-he was awesome-both ends
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 28, 2019, 03:52:41 PM
Btw, GS wins this series . . . and the next . . . and the next . . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on April 28, 2019, 04:10:03 PM
ODDS TO WIN THE 2018-19 NBA FINALS (6/15/19)
Team                          Odds

Golden State Warriors   10/13
Milwaukee Bucks   11/2
Houston Rockets   6/1
Toronto Raptors   8/1
Boston Celtics   20/1
Denver Nuggets   25/1
Portland Blazers   30/1
Philadelphia 76ers   40/1



ODDS TO WIN THE 2018-19 EASTERN CONFERENCE (6/1/19)
Team   Odds
Milwaukee Bucks   1/1
Toronto Raptors   7/5
Boston Celtics   6/1
Philadelphia 76ers   12/1


ODDS TO WIN THE 2018-19 WESTERN CONFERENCE (6/1/19)
Team   Odds
Golden State Warriors   5/11
Houston Rockets   13/5
Denver Nuggets   12/1
Portland Blazers   15/1


http://www.vegasinsider.com/nba/odds/futures/ (http://www.vegasinsider.com/nba/odds/futures/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on April 28, 2019, 04:33:52 PM
Re Warriors-Rockets. I think the refs need to keep handing out techs until the players start playing and coaches start coaching. The amount of barking is absurd and the game is borderline unwatchable.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on April 28, 2019, 07:04:24 PM
Fully unwatchable. This is the year the NBA finally ruined the game.

Harden whining his ass off after he takes a final three from FIVE FEET BEHIND THE THREE POINT LINE and his feet end up TWO FEET IN FRONT OF THE THREE POINT LINE and that's sposed to be a foul.

Landing area is a joke. He wants the landing area for an Aeroflot Mi-26 helicopter.

“I just want a fair chance man. Call the game how it’s supposed to be called and that’s it. I’ll live with the results.”

LMAO.

Call the game how it's supposed to be called, and he's not even in the conversation for first team NBA.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 28, 2019, 07:17:00 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 28, 2019, 03:02:36 PM
Gad, MIL looks terrible.
I though they come out strong and then they'd barely hang on in a low-scoring 2nd half.  Well, I did call a few blowouts ...

Bled looks shaky.  I thought he was playing real confident and would boost MIL.  But he's never been there before.

MIL doesn't try for O-boards at all.  Think that's a mistake.  And even so, there transition D has been fair.  Speaking of D, Hill has been right with Kyrie, but unable to stop him.  Cannaughton tries hard but is overmatched v. everybody.  BOS getting a ton of 8-10 foot paint shots.

BOS is tough when Horford and Kyrie are on their games.  And they're vets ready for this stuff. 

MIL had Kyrie guarding Mirotic a number of times and didn't do anything with it.  Once they overthrew a lob to Mirrortrick for a turnover.

My whole post-season mantra has been Experience.  I should have stuck with it.  No substitute for playoff experience.

Bailin' a littttttttle quick.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 28, 2019, 07:23:36 PM
Re:  Rockets

No - no foul on Harden there...

But I think CP was fouled after the rebound.  And I also thought the ball was out off Curry before it hit Gordon.

HOU lost their chance to steal as GSW were up against heavy legs due to the schedule. 

Tougher to win in 6 now, obviously.  But each game is a tossup.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on April 28, 2019, 09:37:12 PM
Didn't see or pay attention to the rest ... don't have the patience.

But Harden continues to be the game's worst bad joke.

https://twitter.com/Quotemeorelse/status/1122625190511276032
 (https://twitter.com/Quotemeorelse/status/1122625190511276032)

He gets at least 12-15 points a game on crap that would be laughed at at any prior point in the game's history.

Hard to believe he had the cojones to compare the last play to the Kawhi-Pachulia incident. On that incident, Kawhi lands BEHIND where he jumped for the shot. Pachulia slides FORWARD to undercut him.

If it does get to a game 6 or 7, he will surely choke as he has in an unparalleled manner every single time in the past.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 28, 2019, 10:27:52 PM
Green did move forward.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on April 29, 2019, 04:51:26 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 28, 2019, 10:27:52 PM
Green did move forward.

As recovery from the Harden push-off, which is much closer to a foul than what the Beard is crying about. He still lands THREE FEET SHY of Harden's launch point. Harden KICKS BOTH LEGS UP HORIZONTALLY, extending 7 FEET from his launch point.

This is no one's natural shooting motion.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on April 29, 2019, 04:57:45 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D5RyHDwWsAUD_H-.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D5RyHDxWkAAaQ1h.jpg)

Nuff said...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on April 29, 2019, 05:01:51 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on April 29, 2019, 04:57:45 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D5RyHDwWsAUD_H-.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D5RyHDxWkAAaQ1h.jpg)

Nuff said...


*** actually, not enough said. Harden's move is potentially as dangerous to Draymond Green as Pachulia's 3 foot forward slide was to Kawhi. Calling an offensive foul on the shooter for putting your legs through the defender's crotch and into the defender's landing area would put an end to this crap instantly.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 29, 2019, 06:34:43 AM
Not sure why they don't call an offensive foul on the push-offs, but they didn't all year.  Trier was a beneficiary, as he loves the off-arm push-off.  I recall him getting called once or twice for it.

I dislike all the foul-hunting the modern game has become, with Harden a major practitioner. 

Dray came forward somewhat, but safely away from the normal landing area for that shot.  Agree that Harden could have been called for 2 O-fouls on that play.

All the endgame controversy obscures the botch by Durant.  Up 3 16 secs left or so, catches the inbounds pass and stays still facing away from his halfcourt.  Doesn't try to dribble or pass or seem to have any plan.  Apparently waiting for a double team or foul. 

CP3 pokes the ball away (I could hear Clyde telling a Big to hold the ball high).  Durant has always been prone to mental lapses in the clutch.  While CP3 has been prone to overamp the intensity and make mistakes.  Here he got the steal and then the rebound -- both terrific.  But then things got a bit weird.  Klay might have fouled him, I didn't see any good/close replay.  But CP3 got too intense.  Both of these guys clutch tendencies have hurt their teams in the past.  CP3 with two terrific plays and then things went wrong.  Came close to salvaging the game.
But a bad play/nonplay from KD.
Title: A Very Mellow Contract . . .
Post by: bodiddley on April 29, 2019, 07:12:03 AM
Btw, Durant starts next season turning 31 at the end of Sept.
So he really can't afford to join a rebuilding young team.  he needs to pair up with some superfriends, or stay put.

His 3Pt% this season was league average and just about a career low (just 35.3%, after 42% last year).  And these are shots he gets playing with all-stars and very good passers.  His blocks were near a career low as well.  Rebounds career low except for his rook season.  Slippage?  Sign of things to come?  Or merely noise and part of the unique situation playing on GSW?
His assists, otoh, were at a career high.

Next contract for Durant takes him from age 31 to 34 or 35.
The extra year if he signs with GS.
His max would start at $38M and rise to nearly to $44M in Y4.

(https://i1.wp.com/knicksfilmschool.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Screen-Shot-2018-10-26-at-1.29.45-?resize=1024%2C679&ssl=1)

So signing with GSW, KD can make $7M more the first 4 years (bigger raises), and also get a 5th year at a whopping $50M in his age 35 season.  Yikes.  I'll just say, the market rate is 4 years, and that 5th year will likely be a complete albatross.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 29, 2019, 10:28:53 AM
Well..... refs agreed on the particular Harden play, as did I

But I am not sure it was called as the rule is written, which is what has upset James and Coach D.

Still............PAUL was fouled.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 29, 2019, 12:28:53 PM
Mother Tucker had a definite rough time.  5 fouls, 0 points.
Even once he had a wide open 3, mid 3Q I think, and passed off.
Yet, a team high +9.
Similarly, Shump seemed like a warm body and nothing more (3 points, 4 fouls), but was +3.
Nene +7 and showed some skills.

I was looking to get a suit made last week, and at two of the tailor shops in the big market, they had pics of the staff with Nene up on the wall.  One of those shops also had snaps of Anthony Davis and Alvin Gentry, who they said was very funny and friendly.
Wonder if they charge extra for enormously large individuals?  I would think so.

Down the stretch, Harden got some friendly calls.
Down 4, just under 2 mins left, Harden drove, bumped Iggy, Looney blocked the shot, but Iggy was called for a phantom foul.    40 secs left, Klay got called for a foul on a Harden drive.  Looked like good D to me.  So there were 4 FT's for HOU/Harden on questionable calls within the last 2 mins.

It was an oddly disjointed, choppy game.  Lot of weird turnovers, like guys stepping out of bounds or losing the ball out of bounds for no reason.  Once a pass just hit Klay in the chest and bounced away as he wasn't ready.

No one seemed sharp except Dray in the 1st half.
GSW took some poor shots in the endgame.
A contested 18' step back from Durant?
Scurry's 25' bomb over Nene with 25 secs left went in and was the difference, but wasn't what I'd want to see then.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on April 29, 2019, 12:45:33 PM
What I really hate — with all the new protect-the-shooter focus, aside from removing "the art formerly known as defense" from the game, is that it puts even more of the outcome in the hands of the refs. The game should be moving in the other direction entirely. The penalty for faking and flopping should be ejection, or better yet, execution. Harden should NEVER EVER get a call. Harden wants fair play? His whole game is predicated on unfair play. If he suddenly evaporated from the Earth, the NBA would be a 10 percent better place immediately. Still, there is nothing quite like the pleasure of watching him implode when anything counts, so I guess I will just sit back and enjoy once again.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on April 29, 2019, 12:59:23 PM
Jokes of capital punishment aside, you make a pretty good case, Les, that it shouldn't be a foul. I didn't think so watching the game, but I'm convinced now.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on April 29, 2019, 01:00:05 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 28, 2019, 01:22:28 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on April 28, 2019, 07:57:31 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 27, 2019, 08:26:22 PM
For the player points pool I suppose I need to pick a one point guy to replace D Russell.

I will work on that before tomorrow (obviously I cant choose a Raptor or Sixer, since they strated round 2 already)

I say you can, as the first round didn't end until the following game. But you won't find a better pick than Gary Harris, I'm thinking. Let me know if you want to change. Here are the new prices (and McConnell was meant to be McCollum, my mistake, hope that's obvious):

$8: Giannis, Curry, KD

$7: Harden, Kawhi, Embiid,

$6: Klay, Lillard, Jokic, Kyrie, Butler, (PG13)

$5: Tobias, Middleton, J Murray,  McCollum

$4: B Simmons, Lowry, Bledsoe, CP3, Siakam, Draymond, (Westbrook), (Mitchell)

$3: Capela, JJ Redick, Tatum, (Bojan)

$2: Everyone else, (Derozan, Aldridge, D’Angelo, Adams, Sweet Lou)


I should replace my Adams with Gary Harris, but don't want to steal your good idea. So I'll take Millsap. And Westbrook becomes Siakam.

Are we working out of our change or do we replace the bucks for the guy not moving forward?

If I’m going cheap, Wil Barton Sterling Brown , Iggy, and Mo Harkless

You can replace Spider Mitchell for one of the $4 guys above, Derozan for a $2 guy (ie unnamed guy, so maybe of your three above), PG13 for a $6 guy. Let me know who you take and I will post the scores.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on April 29, 2019, 01:00:13 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on April 28, 2019, 07:57:31 AM
I should replace my Adams with Gary Harris, but don't want to steal your good idea. So I'll take Millsap. And Westbrook becomes Siakam.

I already have Siakam. Make that Draymond.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 29, 2019, 01:32:19 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on April 29, 2019, 01:00:05 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 28, 2019, 01:22:28 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on April 28, 2019, 07:57:31 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 27, 2019, 08:26:22 PM
For the player points pool I suppose I need to pick a one point guy to replace D Russell.

I will work on that before tomorrow (obviously I cant choose a Raptor or Sixer, since they strated round 2 already)

I say you can, as the first round didn't end until the following game. But you won't find a better pick than Gary Harris, I'm thinking. Let me know if you want to change. Here are the new prices (and McConnell was meant to be McCollum, my mistake, hope that's obvious):

$8: Giannis, Curry, KD

$7: Harden, Kawhi, Embiid,

$6: Klay, Lillard, Jokic, Kyrie, Butler, (PG13)

$5: Tobias, Middleton, J Murray,  McCollum

$4: B Simmons, Lowry, Bledsoe, CP3, Siakam, Draymond, (Westbrook), (Mitchell)

$3: Capela, JJ Redick, Tatum, (Bojan)

$2: Everyone else, (Derozan, Aldridge, D’Angelo, Adams, Sweet Lou)


I should replace my Adams with Gary Harris, but don't want to steal your good idea. So I'll take Millsap. And Westbrook becomes Siakam.

Are we working out of our change or do we replace the bucks for the guy not moving forward?

If I’m going cheap, Wil Barton Sterling Brown , Iggy, and Mo Harkless

You can replace Spider Mitchell for one of the $4 guys above, Derozan for a $2 guy (ie unnamed guy, so maybe of your three above), PG13 for a $6 guy. Let me know who you take and I will post the scores.

I’ll take Lowry as my $4 for Mitchell and Lillard for my $6, and keep Iggy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 29, 2019, 02:29:20 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on April 29, 2019, 12:45:33 PM
What I really hate — with all the new protect-the-shooter focus, aside from removing "the art formerly known as defense" from the game, is that it puts even more of the outcome in the hands of the refs. The game should be moving in the other direction entirely. The penalty for faking and flopping should be ejection, or better yet, execution. Harden should NEVER EVER get a call. Harden wants fair play? His whole game is predicated on unfair play. If he suddenly evaporated from the Earth, the NBA would be a 10 percent better place immediately. Still, there is nothing quite like the pleasure of watching him implode when anything counts, so I guess I will just sit back and enjoy once again.

They let em play last night.  The refs were consistent in not calling that foul.  You should be pleased.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 29, 2019, 04:41:04 PM
NBA report said Klay didn't foul CP3 at the end.  And when I saw a reverse-angle replay it looked like Klay was there, and no foul.  But they said that Scurry fouled Gordon, bumping him out of bounds or whatever.  A lot going on and the refs prefer not to make a bailout call late.  I didn't see another replay to see any Scurry-Gordon contact.  But these reports are a bit silly.  In the moment, it's best to let the players play, unless a clear foul, and the last minute or two is officiated a bit differently. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on April 29, 2019, 04:43:59 PM
I think the NBA should make no further comments about the officiating unless it's to tell the players to shut up and play basketball.  And that means getting rid of the last two minute thing and releasing reports that "this or that" should have been called.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 29, 2019, 06:00:09 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 29, 2019, 04:41:04 PM
NBA report said Klay didn't foul CP3 at the end.  And when I saw a reverse-angle replay it looked like Klay was there, and no foul.  But they said that Scurry fouled Gordon, bumping him out of bounds or whatever.  A lot going on and the refs prefer not to make a bailout call late.  I didn't see another replay to see any Scurry-Gordon contact.  But these reports are a bit silly.  In the moment, it's best to let the players play, unless a clear foul, and the last minute or two is officiated a bit differently.

It would have been Curry's 6th foul.  To add insult, Curry then went on to point at the out of bounds line (after being the reason for the out of bounds and getting away with non getting ejected).   

These reports would matter if there was some retroactive penalty in the playoffs.  Like Houston should start next game with a technical free throw and possession.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 29, 2019, 07:14:43 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on April 29, 2019, 04:43:59 PM
I think the NBA should make no further comments about the officiating unless it's to tell the players to shut up and play basketball.  And that means getting rid of the last two minute thing and releasing reports that "this or that" should have been called.

Donaghy
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on April 29, 2019, 07:17:31 PM
What about him?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 29, 2019, 08:48:31 PM
https://twitter.com/RexChapman/status/1122991513452064770
Title: Les, the executioner doggie
Post by: carlos123 on April 29, 2019, 10:14:10 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on April 29, 2019, 12:45:33 PM
The penalty for faking and flopping should be ejection, or better yet, execution.

(https://i3.cpcache.com/product/959186634/trust_me_im_an_executioner_dog_tshirt.jpg?side=Front&color=White&height=460&width=460&qv=90)
This is Les in his executioner uni.

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/l1gkNxjoNJc/hqdefault.jpg)
And this his victim, looking terrified of what's coming...

... or maybe just pleading with the refs. for another foul.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on April 30, 2019, 12:01:29 PM
Quote from: Kam on April 29, 2019, 02:29:20 PM
They let em play last night.  The refs were consistent in not calling that foul.  You should be pleased.

Couldn't tell you. Didn't watch except the last minute DVR'd. Very jetlagged after a 15 hour flight. Fell asleep during the first quarter of Philly-Toronto last night, too. Looking forward to getting back on schedule though. Seems like we'll have four good series — well, as good as they can be in the new NBA.

Kerr: "I don't remember people falling down on 3 point shots all the time when I played. It was a different rule. Once you released the ball you were allowed to make contact, there was no foul. But the game has gotten -there's so much deception as part of it, as part of the game"

"There’s no basketball anymore, there’s no beauty in it,” Popovich said back in November. “Now you look at a stat sheet after a game and the first thing you look at is the 3s. If you made 3s and the other team didn’t, you win. You don’t even look at the rebounds or the turnovers or how much transition D was involved. You don’t even care.”

I agree. Guess I'm just an old, you-know-what.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 30, 2019, 01:57:04 PM
DEN-POR didn't seem to have playoff intensity.
There were a lot of plays where things seemed in slow motion and in the middle of plays I was left wondering if a foul had been called.

The end of the TOR-PHI game was fun.  Danny Green had 2 open 3's for the tie -- first exactly at the 1 min mark, the other around 15 secs.  Green had the team high +/-, but shot poorly, and needed to can one of those.  Embiid was real sloppy in the 4Q, but then came through with a spinning drive to up the lead to 3 with under 20 ticks left.  Butler was scoring like mad in the 4Q.
Enjoyable last 5 mins (I missed the 1st half).

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 30, 2019, 02:17:29 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on April 30, 2019, 12:01:29 PM


Kerr: "I don't remember people falling down on 3 point shots all the time when I played. It was a different rule. Once you released the ball you were allowed to make contact, there was no foul. But the game has gotten -there's so much deception as part of it, as part of the game"

"There’s no basketball anymore, there’s no beauty in it,” Popovich said back in November. “Now you look at a stat sheet after a game and the first thing you look at is the 3s. If you made 3s and the other team didn’t, you win. You don’t even look at the rebounds or the turnovers or how much transition D was involved. You don’t even care.”

I agree. Guess I'm just an old, you-know-what.


I also lament the over-reliance on the 3.  I want the line moved back.  Don't make it so easy to shoot threes.

I disagree with Kerr.   Protect the shooter.  He is saying that only because no one has injured one of his guys.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 30, 2019, 02:21:32 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 30, 2019, 01:57:04 PM
  Butler was scoring like mad in the 4Q.
Enjoyable last 5 mins (I missed the 1st half).

Jimmy Butler playing like Latrell in 2001
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 30, 2019, 07:26:50 PM
Butler has to shoot more to lead more.  Just the way it is as they are constructed.
Title: Modern Big
Post by: Kam on April 30, 2019, 09:52:03 PM
I want the Knicks to sign Brook Lopez
Title: Re: Modern Les
Post by: carlos123 on April 30, 2019, 11:08:03 PM
Quote from: Kam on April 30, 2019, 09:52:03 PM
I want the Knicks to sign Brook Lopez

And I want’em to sign Lester Dawg to the FO.

Clean house baby!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 01, 2019, 01:06:00 AM
Houston is never short of excuses when they lose.   But damn.... GS gets ALL the breaks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 01, 2019, 05:25:23 AM
GS creates a fair number of its breaks. Houston could be in serious trouble.

On Bucks - Boston, I want the Bucks to advance mainly to give Kyrie more incentive to leave but if he goes out with production like he had in game 2, do you have to wonder a little if he’ll perform in the future the way a team would want? I expect a bounce back, especially with two games at home for Boston.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 01, 2019, 05:34:18 AM
Thought the GS-HOU game was mostly boring.
GSW would have had a been up a good deal more, but Rockettes finished the 1Q and half strong.

Up 10 with 1:30 left, Durant had B2B turnovers, both resulting in GSW fouls, which stopped the clock and gave HOU 4 FT's.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 01, 2019, 10:50:21 AM
I loved the game.

Interesting certainly at the end for the bettors.

113-104 late - game already decided.  GS giving 5 points

Rivers drains uncontested 3.
Curry stripped - turnover
Harden uncontested layup
4-point game, 2 ticks left. 
A gift from the gods for HOU bettors.
Then Harden love taps Durant and they call it
KD foer the cover - drains 2 - up 6
But 2 ticks left for Harden to please HOU bettors.
Shoots long 2/3 court shot after buzzer to preserve his shooting %.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 01, 2019, 12:58:41 PM
I'm predicting Durant signs a 4 year deal with  . . .  BKY. 
* Gets to play in NYC with less media attention than the Knix. 
* Joins a team with good young players (LaVert, Tangelo, Jarrett Allen, Kurucs, RHJ is only 24) and solid role player vets (DMC, Edavis, Dudley)
* Good coach

Durant could either play with Tangelo or the Nets could let him go.
Tangelo - Dinwiddie
Lavert -   Joe Harris
DMC -     RHJ
Durant -  Kurucs
Allen -     EdDavis

Pretty nice team with balance.
Btw, KD averaging 1.5 mental errors in the last 2 mins of games this series ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 01, 2019, 01:35:36 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 01, 2019, 12:58:41 PM
I'm predicting Durant signs a 4 year deal with  . . .  BKY. 

I will walk to Barclays if that happens.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 01, 2019, 02:17:48 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on May 01, 2019, 05:25:23 AM
GS creates a fair number of its breaks.

True.  Draymond created the stabbing of Harden's eyes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 01, 2019, 10:15:06 PM
Kanter only player in double figures for either team at the half, lol, lol, lol, lol....Portland up by 15.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 01, 2019, 10:20:05 PM
At about 85 per cent strength
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Not Elephant on May 01, 2019, 10:23:53 PM
Hey, can anyone offer an idea why I (Elephant) was banned from this site?

I mean I would have hoped that banishment followed some inspired bit of despicable venom. But I was sort of just standing around with my hands in my pockets.

Perhaps the name change is a chance for a whole new life.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 01, 2019, 10:50:44 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 01, 2019, 10:20:05 PM
At about 85 per cent strength

yup..the separated shoulder...he is just beasting right now...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 01, 2019, 11:14:44 PM
he just laid foul #5 on Jokic..lol, 500X
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 02, 2019, 02:28:06 AM
Quote from: Not Elephant on May 01, 2019, 10:23:53 PM
Hey, can anyone offer an idea why I (Elephant) was banned from this site?

I mean I would have hoped that banishment followed some inspired bit of despicable venom. But I was sort of just standing around with my hands in my pockets.

Perhaps the name change is a chance for a whole new life.

liquidsilver bans people who he thinks are spammers.  I think we have all been banned at least once.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 02, 2019, 09:24:31 AM
I'm getting hit with the captcha things to get in the last few days.
So I think he tried to block some spammers and `we're collateral damage.  You can send a message to Josh or just wait a few days and see if it your old username works again.

Here's a wacky article on potential rule changes to diminish 3's and bring more variety back to the game.
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26633540/the-nba-obsessed-3s-let-fix-thing

A 3-sec rule on standing in the corner would be an additional burden on the refs, while the spot up corner guys would just count to 3, step over the 3 point line and step back to reset for another 3 secs.  So that's useless (and silly in any case).

Making the 3-line longer and/or widening the court are the two obvious solutions.

Allowing goaltending on 3's is too gimmicky.  And what happens if you goaltend what looked like a 3 but the guy had a foot on the line so it was a 2?  Plus you'd end up with more fouls down low as guys tried to box out legal goaltenders.

I'm impressed with the number of goofy and mostly unworkable ideas Goldsberry came up with.  Each team deciding on their own 3-point line like baseball outfield walls?  Problem is that would just increase Home court ad, which wouldn't be good.  Though it would be amusing if some teams eliminated the corner 3, or had a real long or short line.

Change is okay, but continuity and history are also important.  Moving back the line the simplest solution to 3-dominance.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 02, 2019, 11:23:20 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 02, 2019, 09:24:31 AM
I'm getting hit with the captcha things to get in the last few days.
So I think he tried to block some spammers and `we're collateral damage.  You can send a message to Josh or just wait a few days and see if it your old username works again.

Here's a wacky article on potential rule changes to diminish 3's and bring more variety back to the game.
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26633540/the-nba-obsessed-3s-let-fix-thing

A 3-sec rule on standing in the corner would be an additional burden on the refs, while the spot up corner guys would just count to 3, step over the 3 point line and step back to reset for another 3 secs.  So that's useless (and silly in any case).

Making the 3-line longer and/or widening the court are the two obvious solutions.

Allowing goaltending on 3's is too gimmicky.  And what happens if you goaltend what looked like a 3 but the guy had a foot on the line so it was a 2?  Plus you'd end up with more fouls down low as guys tried to box out legal goaltenders.

I'm impressed with the number of goofy and mostly unworkable ideas Goldsberry came up with.  Each team deciding on their own 3-point line like baseball outfield walls?  Problem is that would just increase Home court ad, which wouldn't be good.  Though it would be amusing if some teams eliminated the corner 3, or had a real long or short line.

Change is okay, but continuity and history are also important.  Moving back the line the simplest solution to 3-dominance.

Just make every field goal (outside of the paint) worth three points.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 02, 2019, 12:35:10 PM
Hmm.  Why not just do away with a 3-point line/shot altogether then?

Kant had a real good 1st half.
Not as good 2nd half.
some of those DEN O-boards were on his watch.
And up 5 with 35 secs, Kant made a feeble inbounds pass which was stolen, and gave DEN a chance.

DEN missed lots of open shots.
Especially 2Q.  Jokic set guys up.

This series is a real good matchup for Kant.
Nugs always play one Big C -- Jokic or Plumly.
They're a jumpshooting team without penetration.
So Kant can board and bang and doesn't have to scramble or rim protect much.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 02, 2019, 01:15:34 PM
Credit Kanter yesterday

Jokic only TOOK one 3 pointer - and only 4 free throws, down from 5 and 12 in Game 1.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 02, 2019, 02:08:42 PM
yeah, 4th quarter not as strong for Kant, but by that time he'd been banging his seperated shoulder with Jokic & Millsap for a long time. Played some good D last night. Helluva playoff run for him. no bad games. no days off....and, he's only 25, lol.
Title: Enes and Fizzy
Post by: carlos123 on May 02, 2019, 02:17:56 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on May 02, 2019, 02:08:42 PM
yeah, 4th quarter not as strong for Kant, but by that time he'd been banging his seperated shoulder with Jokic & Millsap for a long time. Played some good D last night. Helluva playoff run for him. no bad games. no days off....and, he's only 25, lol.

Only 25 and wanted to be a Knick.

But not to worry Les. We still have Fizzy to “coach” us to a championship. LMAO.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 02, 2019, 02:41:20 PM
Cant wait til Mitchell blocks a shot down Enes' throat as Les and Carlos suffer simultaneous coronaries...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 02, 2019, 02:45:06 PM
The first time he tried to defend all season he over extends his shoulder.  Should've been had playing defense.
Title: Stat Whore
Post by: Kam on May 02, 2019, 03:14:26 PM
Enes doing nothing to dispel the notion he is all about HIS stats.

https://nypost.com/2019/05/02/why-enes-kanter-is-ripping-the-turkish-government-again/ (https://nypost.com/2019/05/02/why-enes-kanter-is-ripping-the-turkish-government-again/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 02, 2019, 03:17:20 PM
You continue to clown yourself to a degree to which few humans have ever clowned themselves regarding our Turkish friend. That is fine.

I don't think coronaries lie ahead for Les or Los.

I do think a lot of wins and meaningful minutes lie ahead for Enes.

*** I have no Enes jones. I am however rooting for Portland in the West. Mainly because of how much fun it would be in Turkey for the Government to try and explain why they are not televising the NBA finals.
Title: Re: Stat Whore
Post by: lesterluv on May 02, 2019, 03:30:35 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 02, 2019, 03:14:26 PM
Enes doing nothing to dispel the notion he is all about HIS stats.

https://nypost.com/2019/05/02/why-enes-kanter-is-ripping-the-turkish-government-again/ (https://nypost.com/2019/05/02/why-enes-kanter-is-ripping-the-turkish-government-again/)

LOL 100000000000000000000X

Honestly, you aren't like this outside the forum right? You're just jestering? I really hope so.

It's not about his stats.

It's about censorship and that apparently, NBA Turkey media is cooperating full-on with Turkish censorship. NBA NBA posted same with his name and stats. NBA Turkey stripped it.

LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
Title: Mitchell
Post by: carlos123 on May 02, 2019, 04:42:34 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 02, 2019, 02:41:20 PM
Cant wait til Mitchell blocks a shot down Enes' throat as Les and Carlos suffer simultaneous coronaries...

I love Mitchell. Hope he does. But that was not my point.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 02, 2019, 06:32:05 PM
Quote
Brooklyn Nets point guard D'Angelo Russell was cited for marijuana possession after being detained Wednesday at New York's LaGuardia Airport following a baggage check, a spokesperson for the New York Port Authority Police said.

Russell was en route to Louisville, Kentucky, where he was raised.

Russell was summoned for possession of less than 50 grams of marijuana and later released. The marijuana was found inside a hidden compartment of an Arizona Iced Tea can that was in Russell's possession.

The 23-year-old Russell is set to become a restricted free agent this offseason.

Rather dumb.
Why bring weed through an airport?
Have a friend buy some in Kentucky.

Not the best idea when you're a FA.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 02, 2019, 07:00:46 PM
Kanter is a sneaky quick shooter around the hoop.  Not the easiest guy to pin.

But please - let us know when the Kid does so.  So important in the scheme of things.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Not Elephant on May 02, 2019, 07:03:03 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 02, 2019, 09:24:31 AM
I'm getting hit with the captcha things to get in the last few days.
So I think he tried to block some spammers and `we're collateral damage.  You can send a message to Josh or just wait a few days and see if it your old username works again.

Yeah, I've been out of the country the last couple of months, using a VPN, etc.

I'll give it some time, but if I need to contact him, can you tell me the best way?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 02, 2019, 09:21:58 PM
8 first half shots for Butler.  That's more like it.

11-7-5 for Jimmy B.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 02, 2019, 09:43:30 PM
Where oh where are all the Kyle Lowry fans?

Gasol has been poor - hope to see him wake up.  Bad trade thus far.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 03, 2019, 05:19:09 AM
I like Lowry, but he's never been a good post-season player.
With the addition of Kawhi and emergence of Siakim, Lowry just needs to be the 3rd scorer.  Lowry is short and kept rushing things.  He needs to drive more against PHI bigger players.\

'6ers kept attacking Lowry on D.
He plays hard on D, but can't manage against Simmons or other large PHI. 

Ma Gasol looked sluggish.
VanVleet hasn't looked good.
He had a solid season, but didn't have the mojo and confidence of last year, when he was a handful.

Ennis a nice boost for PHi.
TOR has to get their D together.
Title: Kudos to NBA (Was: Re: Stat Whore)
Post by: lesterluv on May 03, 2019, 09:42:38 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on May 02, 2019, 03:30:35 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 02, 2019, 03:14:26 PM
Enes doing nothing to dispel the notion he is all about HIS stats.

https://nypost.com/2019/05/02/why-enes-kanter-is-ripping-the-turkish-government-again/ (https://nypost.com/2019/05/02/why-enes-kanter-is-ripping-the-turkish-government-again/)

Honestly, you aren't like this outside the forum right? You're just jestering? I really hope so.

It's not about his stats.

It's about censorship and that apparently, NBA Turkey media is cooperating full-on with Turkish censorship. NBA NBA posted same with his name and stats. NBA Turkey stripped it.


NBA does the right thing:

https://www.oregonlive.com/blazers/2019/05/nba-fires-turkish-company-that-left-enes-kanter-off-tweet-following-trail-blazers-game-2-win-over-nuggets.html (https://www.oregonlive.com/blazers/2019/05/nba-fires-turkish-company-that-left-enes-kanter-off-tweet-following-trail-blazers-game-2-win-over-nuggets.html)
Title: Re: Stat Whore
Post by: Kam on May 03, 2019, 11:50:25 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on May 02, 2019, 03:30:35 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 02, 2019, 03:14:26 PM
Enes doing nothing to dispel the notion he is all about HIS stats.

https://nypost.com/2019/05/02/why-enes-kanter-is-ripping-the-turkish-government-again/ (https://nypost.com/2019/05/02/why-enes-kanter-is-ripping-the-turkish-government-again/)

LOL 100000000000000000000X

Honestly, you aren't like this outside the forum right? You're just jestering? I really hope so.

It's not about his stats.

It's about censorship and that apparently, NBA Turkey media is cooperating full-on with Turkish censorship. NBA NBA posted same with his name and stats. NBA Turkey stripped it.

LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

Censorship?  Please educate yourself.  You make the word meaningless when its about your stats.
Title: Willful Blindness
Post by: carlos123 on May 03, 2019, 01:13:00 PM
Kam(s)ter, I don’t know what’s doing it to you, either love of Erdogan or hatred of Kanter, but you may be losing it.

A dictator suppresses any non-negative information about a real or perceived political opponent, no matter how banal that information.

PS. Enes says hello 👋
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 03, 2019, 01:33:04 PM
2014 draft was rather weird:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2014.html
Wiggins 1 then Jabari 2.
Ahead of Embiid (#3)
Exum 5th; Smart 6th
Stauskas #8;  Vonleh #9, Elfrid 10, McDermott 11.
Aaron Gordon 4 and Jules Randle 7.

4 Starting Foreign C's:
Embiid 3; Nurkic 16; Capela 25; JOKIC 42

Knix took Cleanthony Early #34
Missing out on Dinwiddie #38; Jerami Grant 39; Jokic 42; Dwight Powell 45; Jordan Clarkson 46.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 03, 2019, 03:26:17 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 03, 2019, 01:33:04 PM
2014 draft was rather weird:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2014.html
Wiggins 1 then Jabari 2.
Ahead of Embiid (#3)
Exum 5th; Smart 6th
Stauskas #8;  Vonleh #9, Elfrid 10, McDermott 11.
Aaron Gordon 4 and Jules Randle 7.

4 Starting Foreign C's:
Embiid 3; Nurkic 16; Capela 25; JOKIC 42

Knix took Cleanthony Early #34
Missing out on Dinwiddie #38; Jerami Grant 39; Jokic 41; Dwight Powell 45; Jordan Clarkson 46.

Interestingly, Jokic would have been a perfect Triangle 5-man.
Title: Re: Willful Blindness
Post by: Kam on May 03, 2019, 10:50:05 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 03, 2019, 01:13:00 PM
Kam(s)ter, I don’t know what’s doing it to you, either love of Erdogan or hatred of Kanter, but you may be losing it.

A dictator suppresses any non-negative information about a real or perceived political opponent, no matter how banal that information.

PS. Enes says hello 👋

You're obsessed with someone who isn't on the squad.    You openly root for him to do well.  He sucked here as a teammate/mentor and openly undermined the coach. He never bought into a team mindset. After one game not playing he went right to the media.... not his coach... to air his anger that his All-Star bid would be hurt!* He wasnt worth the cap hold it would take to keep him here. We were never going to negotiate with him. He was absolutely never ever whatsovever part of any long term plan here.  The plan was max space in free agency.  That meant it was pretty sillyto get attached to a guy just passing through.  Yeah i liked him at first as this jovial personality we haven't had since Robin Lopez. But when he became a pain in the ass i soured on him. I'm a Knick fan.   He trashed the team.  You have misplaced loyalty or are just loyal to trying to prove yourself right.  So... not much of a fan.


PS The Knicks say "WTF carlos"

--------------------------------------------------------------------

* He wasn't getting the Turkish votes - that much is certain
Title: Re: Willful Blindness
Post by: Kam on May 03, 2019, 10:52:01 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 03, 2019, 01:13:00 PM
Kam(s)ter, I don’t know what’s doing it to you, either love of Erdogan or hatred of Kanter, but you may be losing it.

A dictator suppresses any non-negative information about a real or perceived political opponent, no matter how banal that information.

PS. Enes says hello 👋

Why do you care so much about THIS dictator?  All of a sudden he's the poster boy for politically correct sports fandom.  That's pretty convenient, this until now hidden passion for Turkish politics.  I must've missed all those pre-Kanter posts you made about Turkey.  (Lost in the purge - alas) 

Re: Erdogan/Turkey/Kanter IDGAF i have mullahs to ignore.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 03, 2019, 11:21:23 PM
You continue to clown yourself to a degree to which few humans have ever clowned themselves :).

** like more than just forum laughingstock of the year, more like forum laughingstock of the ever!


***and that means beating out the legendary Phil5c, a feat long-thought scientifically impossible
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 03, 2019, 11:36:58 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on May 03, 2019, 11:21:23 PM
You continue to clown yourself to a degree to which few humans have ever clowned themselves :).

** like more than just forum laughingstock of the year, more like forum laughingstock of the ever!


***and that means beating out the legendary Phil5c, a feat long-thought scientifically impossible

I proudly accept the nomination.
  Do we have a second?
Title: Re: Willful Blindness
Post by: carlos123 on May 03, 2019, 11:40:04 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 03, 2019, 10:50:05 PM



PS The Knicks say "WTF carlos"

--------------------------------------------------------------------

* He wasn't getting the Turkish votes - that much is certain

Kam(s)ter, Enes and I love u too 💕
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 04, 2019, 12:44:41 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on May 03, 2019, 03:26:17 PM


Interestingly, Jokic would have been a perfect Triangle 5-man.

How did Phil miss on the Joker?

And if Phil takes him there do we ever draft KP?
Title: Re: Willful Blindness
Post by: Kam on May 04, 2019, 12:50:43 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 03, 2019, 11:40:04 PM

A dictator suppresses any non-negative information about a real or perceived political opponent, no matter how banal that information.

PS. Enes says hello 👋

Its like when you stalk your ex-Girlfriend's facebook page to see the negative stuff she says about you.

Enes should move on already.   

Quote

Kam(s)ter, Enes and I love u too 💕

I love you too boo.  But you and Lester need to let go.
Title: Re: Willful Blindness
Post by: carlos123 on May 04, 2019, 01:17:10 AM
Quote from: Kam on May 04, 2019, 12:50:43 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 03, 2019, 11:40:04 PM

A dictator suppresses any non-negative information about a real or perceived political opponent, no matter how banal that information.

PS. Enes says hello 👋

Its like when you stalk your ex-Girlfriend's facebook page to see the negative stuff she says about you.

Enes should move on already.   

Quote

Kam(s)ter, Enes and I love u too 💕

I love you too boo.  But you and Lester need to let go.

Oh Lord!!! Look who’s talking. U really funny 🤣
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 04, 2019, 02:38:31 AM
56 minutes for EK tonight.....heckuva game, crazy game....


*** the irony... 56 is exactly kam's IQ
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 04, 2019, 03:39:57 AM
That air ball to end the second OT.  That’s your man crush.  Coming up short.  Like your Father. Yeah I said it, your pops was short. SHOTS FIRED!

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 04, 2019, 08:17:14 AM
So 2 interesting playoff games, and the forum is stuck on a Kanter smackdown . . .

I didn't think MIL could win with Bled not playing well.  But Hill scored off the bench.  Connaught was also very solid.
I only saw 2 & 4Q's, so missed MIL taking the lead with a 40 Pt 3Q.  BOS starters all scored well, so the story seemed to be their sluggish D. 

Bucks got shaky in the end.  Up 14 with 5 then 4 mins left they kept fouling, letting BOS score without using much clock.  Finished as a 7 pt game, and MIL needs to cure that inexperience if they face a tight endgame.

New Poll:
Kyrie Irving--
- Leader?
- Overrated Bum?

Irving has terrific 1-on-1 skills, but he also puts in these blah low-impact games.  Again, I only saw half the game.  4Q, MIL was hunting Kyrie out and feasting on his weak D.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on May 04, 2019, 10:06:30 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 04, 2019, 08:17:14 AM
So 2 interesting playoff games, and the forum is stuck on a Kanter smackdown . . .

I didn't think MIL could win with Bled not playing well.  But Hill scored off the bench.  Connaught was also very solid.
I only saw 2 & 4Q's, so missed MIL taking the lead with a 40 Pt 3Q.  BOS starters all scored well, so the story seemed to be their sluggish D. 

Bucks got shaky in the end.  Up 14 with 5 then 4 mins left they kept fouling, letting BOS score without using much clock.  Finished as a 7 pt game, and MIL needs to cure that inexperience if they face a tight endgame.

New Poll:
Kyrie Irving--
- Leader?
- Overrated Bum?

Irving has terrific 1-on-1 skills, but he also puts in these blah low-impact games.  Again, I only saw half the game.  4Q, MIL was hunting Kyrie out and feasting on his weak D.

the Celts-Bucks was decided in the 3rd qtr.

Bucks/GF contiunually attacked the rim and was rewarded.

and Celts lost their compsure and focus late in the 3rd

4th qtr was largely book-keeping and make-up calls

don't let the scoreboard fool you, that was an ass-kicking
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 04, 2019, 12:04:13 PM
Caught a replay.
3Q, Anti-Greek kept barreling into folks and getting FT's.
Stevens tried Olejeyi (whatever his name is), but he just fouled  non-stop.  But it was a 1 pt game when AuntieGreek sat around the 4:30 mark, and George Hill ran amuck and got the Bucks a 7 point lead.
Hill was fantastic, really the difference.
When Greek came back around the 2 min mark, MIL extended the lead.
Did seem Celts lost focus.
I didn't like how Kyrie played for himself instead of instigating team play.

Ilya made a few timely plays in the 3Q (also missed one easy layup off a nice feed).  My 4Q take-away was how shaky the Buckos were on holding on to their lead.  Didn't play smart by fouling like crazy stopping the clock.  Lucky it was a solid 14 point lead they were defending.  This is the playoffs, and these Bucks haven't been deep before.

Hill was terrific.  Missing Brog, and with Bled not playing well, Hill was really key.  Of course it would have been interesting to see Smart defending Hill, instead of Kyrie.  Injuries always a drag in the playoffs.  Brogdon might be back soon ...

Jaylen played real well, but got hit with a number of minor fouls.  His 5th foul was ticky-tack, but he had just gotten his 4th right before, and there was no reason to press up on Bled 27 feet out with nothing happening.  Need to play smarter and more careful with 4 fouls.  Seemed like Tatum couldn't knock down a 3 and it took him out of his game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 04, 2019, 01:47:28 PM
Siakim might have injured himself intentionally tripping Embiid, and might miss G4.  Something like an Amare and fire extinguisher stupid moment.

I've certainly made a number of anti-Erdogan posts here.
Basically, he's imitated Putin.  Probably Erdogan's nastiest move was restarting the dirty war v. the Turkish Kurds because the Kurdish parties were able to block him from rewriting the Constitution, which he needed to pull the switch to a Presidential system, consolidating power and avoiding term limits.  Right out of the Putin playbook.   
Putin similarly used the brutal civil war v. Chechnya to up his popularity.

They both run a similar kleptocracy.  When it became clear Turkey was selling "illegal" Iraqi oil (from the Kurdish territory), it was Erdogan's son-in-law benefiting.  Erdogan has outlawed most Kurd political parties, closed almost all independent news outlets, locked up many journalists and many Kurdish politicians.  A nasty authoritarian who doesn't tolerate opposition and readily throws opponents in jail. 

No wonder Putin and Erdogan get along well these days.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 04, 2019, 07:45:48 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 04, 2019, 12:44:41 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on May 03, 2019, 03:26:17 PM


Interestingly, Jokic would have been a perfect Triangle 5-man.

How did Phil miss on the Joker?



He was built like John Pinone.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 04, 2019, 09:19:13 PM
 I do love watching Houston when Harden is on the bench.
Title: BoZ knows better
Post by: carlos123 on May 04, 2019, 09:38:18 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 04, 2019, 08:17:14 AM
So 2 interesting playoff games, and the forum is stuck on a Kanter smackdown . . .


Thankfully, we have Mr. Know-it-All to tell us off.

Les, you're a baaaaaad boy (just like me)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/7D9m0yc_-BEAmE2UvA3t5uqJjZgFfD_hwhBsUjou9tEQ_m9RJqjXd5d7Hr2iWhyPsuvLuOQezlM6-gyOZroMgFaOJq2EG9eYcv_14sv4Coev4oqESeqJQpNtAGmlL_ateY75Pik733-WJ0A8Zt-fTJPkDlholBcGLNkMUN2gXLfB7EbqhcfquJ1ShMuxpHuJx0bz9uIqYAjJxV57BIHGs2Dn4bmlA8Sr6ZatW76VcjBqRL81hCNWlBpFK-VdKotOBEt22mMm2IgoyFpw9BbTklyXaMZnRtBbLkNBU1VLTgeBv2s679juH56fxkIyR3RSAWD6fJM5xruzMb8PFqMlJdBl9VVqAXKUbkf1j6MwBScZ1juVCCHQ6cwLpw5hN6xzlgI1nlUjuZVv4zpMserJhkYpOfejII3Ai7aQdJQmf8nAz0MlcVcjusvW-cC_l8xI7ayc01LjAIYgu1FemPKdaI553hY7jGGZZ3rOwpY6VSEC30aacDjhnZHvfFIlWWGFVDr3fNvIBjpcOUAmotWBU2fqVtfafGmqb4kfVe-XOl26C_rgjtvngWaLYiXu_dSpa5GqpQKkC1eLS2MAoNjQN2RmVsiHa4bdSKx8HjSxJPxTrsbNOqZvUc9dA-Ca-UdZlt-nD5yh5OxbKsKE6vAUm-w_eZJycbE=w1199-h600-no)

(https://media.tenor.com/images/f45dc3deb54ae86b9276bd0aaa790972/tenor.gif) INTERNET EVIL TYPE CLUB
Title: Steph Curry
Post by: Kam on May 04, 2019, 11:16:23 PM
Clowned himself two possessions late.   Hubris loses.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on May 05, 2019, 09:47:06 AM
Durant and Zion mentioned about, the perfect fix for what ails.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 05, 2019, 12:29:59 PM
Gordon had a good game.  Outplayed Klay.
Slumpert showed up and outscored the GSW bench.
PJ Tuck outhustled GS on the boards.
I meant to see who he beta to those rebounds (Durant at least once or twice), but got a phone call during the replay and wasn't able to pay attention.

Scurry had a poor game and missed a few layups.  Durant missed a 4Q layup too.
Was a weird game.  The W was there for GS and they just failed to take it.
A 3-0 series lead was there.  Where was the urgency? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 05, 2019, 12:47:37 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 04, 2019, 08:17:14 AM
New Poll:
Kyrie Irving--
- Leader?
- Overrated Bum?

Irving has terrific 1-on-1 skills, but he also puts in these blah low-impact games.  Again, I only saw half the game.  4Q, MIL was hunting Kyrie out and feasting on his weak D.

Put me down for being a much bigger Kyrie fan than you. As long as he's the second star coming to NY, I'd be delighted were he to take a max from NY. Just as Boston will be delighted if he stays. I hate that Ainge stole him in the way that he did.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 05, 2019, 02:37:54 PM
Raps season on the line in an hour, and Siakam is "doubtful". Sixers need to be hungry and aggressive early, especially towards Lowry. When he scores well, the Raps are tough to beat.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 05, 2019, 02:42:56 PM
Who recently said:
"I'm an actual genius when it comes to this game."

Okay, so it was Kyrie.  Weird guy.
Without KZ, I'm left hoping we get two max stars, I guess.

I'd rather watch Kemba plays his ass off, than the more talented Kyrie mope and show up half the time.  Because the only guarantee is valKyrie will be moody and somewhat unhappy.  There's recent minor chatter that Kyrie prefers BKY, which I see as a better landing spot for KD as well.

Not sure exactly why but I can see Durant returning to GS (say 60%), but I think Kyrie has one foot out the door and is likely leaving Beantown (30% return).  Though the reports are Durant is the one half-gone and likely coming to NYC.  And a BOS run to the Finals could alter the calculus.  Kyrie a hoops genius so he's using differentials to decide . . .

So who is a max player?
I saw an article that expected Tobias and Middleton to both get max deals.  I'm a Middleguy fan, have been for a few years, but a max contract?  Yee-ikes.  Tobias isn't that level.
Of course a max contract varies based on years, ranging form something like starting at around $26M up to $36M for a 10 year player.  So I wish they attached numbers instead of using a sliding scale term like max contract.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 05, 2019, 02:52:50 PM
Van Vleet needs to lock in.  He just looks blah out here.  Last year he was oozing confidence. 
If Siakim is out, Serge needs to find the urge to surge.
I expect Siakim to give it a shot and play at leats 20 mins, with whatever he's got.  Even half=speed, he helps them. 
I forgot about Anunoby.  Unfortunately timed appendicitis.

But yeah, Lowry should be key.
I'd run an early play or two to get Lowry an open 3, or better yet a rim attack layup, where he either scores or gets fouled.
Try to give him some confidence early.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 05, 2019, 03:54:51 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 05, 2019, 12:29:59 PM
Gordon had a good game.  Outplayed Klay.
Slumpert showed up and outscored the GSW bench.
PJ Tuck outhustled GS on the boards.
I meant to see who he beta to those rebounds (Durant at least once or twice), but got a phone call during the replay and wasn't able to pay attention.

Scurry had a poor game and missed a few layups.  Durant missed a 4Q layup too.
Was a weird game.  The W was there for GS and they just failed to take it.
A 3-0 series lead was there.  Where was the urgency?

Why do you think Golden State did not give effort?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 05, 2019, 04:05:10 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on May 05, 2019, 02:37:54 PM
Raps season on the line in an hour, and Siakam is "doubtful". Sixers need to be hungry and aggressive early, especially towards Lowry. When he scores well, the Raps are tough to beat.

You had bad intel.

Raps take this one.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 05, 2019, 06:47:39 PM
 If I could have one, any one (which I can't),  K.Leonard is without a doubt, that one...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 05, 2019, 07:41:14 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on May 05, 2019, 06:47:39 PM
If I could have one, any one (which I can't),  K.Leonard is without a doubt, that one...

Agreed. 


For me, KL and KD would be tops.
Title: Re: Raps
Post by: carlos123 on May 05, 2019, 08:56:27 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 05, 2019, 04:05:10 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on May 05, 2019, 02:37:54 PM
Raps season on the line in an hour, and Siakam is "doubtful". Sixers need to be hungry and aggressive early, especially towards Lowry. When he scores well, the Raps are tough to beat.

You had bad intel.

Raps take this one.

Nice line for Gasol, with a team high +13.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 05, 2019, 09:22:48 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 05, 2019, 07:41:14 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on May 05, 2019, 06:47:39 PM
If I could have one, any one (which I can't),  K.Leonard is without a doubt, that one...

Agreed. 


For me, KL and KD would be tops.

What's the news flash?
Title: Re: Raps
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 05, 2019, 09:23:50 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 05, 2019, 08:56:27 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 05, 2019, 04:05:10 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on May 05, 2019, 02:37:54 PM
Raps season on the line in an hour, and Siakam is "doubtful". Sixers need to be hungry and aggressive early, especially towards Lowry. When he scores well, the Raps are tough to beat.

You had bad intel.

Raps take this one.

Nice line for Gasol, with a team high +13.

Ibaka importantly up to 32 minutes
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 05, 2019, 09:36:43 PM
Meanwhile Blazers have their shot....... and misfire.

Kanter 2-5 in 29 minutes
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 05, 2019, 09:48:41 PM
great game, love watching these teams. yeah, you could see EK was feeling the 57 min from the other night, played excellent defense though.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 05, 2019, 09:52:20 PM
https://twitter.com/KnickFilmSchool/status/1124899391339470850
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 06, 2019, 08:48:15 PM
CONNAUGHTON!!!!

Shoot the rock, Kyrie.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 06, 2019, 09:16:23 PM
This is on Ainge, not Stevens.

Bucks are just better
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on May 06, 2019, 10:05:00 PM
Ainge took a 24 win team rebuilt them and got them to 2 ECF.

Bucks are/were better.

They straight out beat the Celts

They had no answer for GF and they disappeared in the 3rd qtr.

Gordo ran out of gas.

Kyrie was a no-show.

He was terrible.

I think John Havlicek had a better series.

I wonder if KI will be happy in NYC?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on May 06, 2019, 10:45:04 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on May 06, 2019, 10:05:00 PM
Ainge took a 24 win team rebuilt them and got them to 2 ECF.

Bucks are/were better.

They straight out beat the Celts

They had no answer for GF and they disappeared in the 3rd qtr.

Gordo ran out of gas.

Kyrie was a no-show.

He was terrible.

I think John Havlicek had a better series.

I wonder if KI will be happy in NYC?

Well, GF is SUPERMAN right now. Not sure anyone can beat his team.

If KI comes to NY, I hope it's to the Nyets. I'd gladly take either D'Angelo or Dinwiddie, so they can make space for Kyrie.

Thankfully, this guy is not a Knick. But I can't resist putting here his funny posterior.
(https://o.aolcdn.com/images/dims?thumbnail=640%2C420&quality=80&format=jpg&image_uri=https%3A%2F%2Faol-releases-assets-production.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fgenerator%2F46C5121A.jpg&client=amp-blogside-v2&signature=0229d717275f49bcc34e49f4bc15a877850bf283)

... Wait. Is that a face?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on May 06, 2019, 10:54:03 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 06, 2019, 10:45:04 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on May 06, 2019, 10:05:00 PM
Ainge took a 24 win team rebuilt them and got them to 2 ECF.

Bucks are/were better.

They straight out beat the Celts

They had no answer for GF and they disappeared in the 3rd qtr.

Gordo ran out of gas.

Kyrie was a no-show.

He was terrible.

I think John Havlicek had a better series.

I wonder if KI will be happy in NYC?

Well, GF is SUPERMAN right now. Not sure anyone can beat his team.

If KI comes to NY, I hope it's to the Nyets. I'd gladly take either D'Angelo or Dinwiddie, so they can make space for Kyrie.

If they're hitting their 3s, their tough.

And they play D.

Maybe a healthy Embiid gives him a tough time in the paint, but i think the 76ers are a fraud.

So so far the Bucks look like the tram out of the East.

KoD.

KI (after G1) and Gordo have been no-shows in this series.

Coach Brad has sort of sucked too.

I got mixed feelings about KI leaving, but he's a pain in the ass prima dona and I'm not sure he's worth the drama and I wonder how much this bullshit impacts Tatum and Brown.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 07, 2019, 12:42:53 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on May 06, 2019, 10:54:03 PM
Bucks are/were better.

Bucks have a coherent style.
Giannis and shooters.
Hrorford 7 Co stopped him G1.
Celts have the talent, but not the coherence.
A healthy Smart and BOS wins the series, imo.

Quote
I wonder if KI will be happy in NYC?

He won't be happy anywhere.

Quote
I got mixed feelings about KI leaving, but he's a pain in the ass prima dona and I'm not sure he's worth the drama and I wonder how much this bullshit impacts Tatum and Brown.

But I'm sure Kyrie will be a terrific mentor to Knox and Jr. Smith and Trier . . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on May 07, 2019, 12:59:38 AM
If Boston gets a healthy Smart does Milwaukee get a healthy Brogdon?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 07, 2019, 01:06:58 AM
Can we not use GF for Giannis?


GF to me means girlfriend or gluten-free
Title: Can't wait for
Post by: Kam on May 07, 2019, 01:08:46 AM
Giannis vs Kawhi

the Freak vs the Storm
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 07, 2019, 04:55:51 AM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on May 07, 2019, 12:59:38 AM
If Boston gets a healthy Smart does Milwaukee get a healthy Brogdon?

wish they both were out there.
Hill has stepped up.
Rozier hasn't.

GSW continues to get outrebounded by PJ MotherTucker.
Also HOu seems to get to most loose balls.
GSW misses layups.  Haven't gotten calls on rim attacks -  mostly Iggy and Scurry.  If Dray can just blast his way to the rim, why can't Durant?  BIz, you are also more of a KD than Bo.

I liked GSW strategy of having Steph blitz out on Harden when the Rockettes try to force a switch.  Harden isn't doing anything quickly.  Gets momentarily frozen far out and then GS can switch back.  This was effective in G's 1 & 2.  Done less in G3 & 4 when HOU was more ready for it, but also tried to get Scurry on a switch less.  I thought that was a clever Kerr adjustment.

GWS really needs to box out.  When a shot goes up (with Capela out) really just need to locate Tucker.  Can't let a 6'6" and under lineup outboard you.  And use the height advantage more.

I still think i'd spend the 1Q attacking Harden.  Try to tag him with fouls, make him play D and switch, make him chase G's.  Score on him, and get him in foul trouble and tire him out playing D.  Without Harden, Rockettes have little chance. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 07, 2019, 07:08:02 AM
What a great night!

One good game, one great -

Topped it off with my first look at the electric Chris Paddack in San Diego.

Golden State vs Houston is like watching an unscripted ballet.  Incredible.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on May 07, 2019, 09:40:13 AM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on May 07, 2019, 12:59:38 AM
If Boston gets a healthy Smart does Milwaukee get a healthy Brogdon?


Smart is one of my favorite role players, and plays a fun aggressive style, and he'd help, but he would not really address the mismatch with Giannis.

IMO the Celts played best this year when Baynes and Horford played together. They were solid defensively, and the transiton game with ball movement was there. When KI dribbles endlessly 1-on-5 they suck.

I'm assuming Baynes is playing hurt, as he's played very little. I thought as part of a double-team, (Brown/Baynes/Tatum/Loscy/Embry/whoever) they might be able to contain GF in the paint. Beat him up legally and if he passes out, and they hit 3s so be it. Baynes is also not selfish and doesn't need the ball. But he just hasn't played.

Bucks are just better and are playing good ball.
Title: Re: Can't wait for
Post by: lesterluv on May 07, 2019, 10:00:16 AM
Quote from: Kam on May 07, 2019, 01:08:46 AM
Giannis vs Kawhi

the Freak vs the Storm

Would surely be a treat...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 07, 2019, 12:29:05 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on May 07, 2019, 12:59:38 AM
If Boston gets a healthy Smart does Milwaukee get a healthy Brogdon?

Brogdon's probably my favorite player these days.
But Geo Hill has been able to provide much of what The Frog brings.  While Connaughton has stepped up into 7th man role.

But BOS doesn't have anyone to take on the Smart pitbull role (Rozier hasn't).  And so it's been easier to expose Kyrie's weak D.

Also, I think Smart sets the tone, gets others to play hard, and takes on the heart&soul role.  And he makes timely plays.

G4, MIL took the lead with their bench in the last 2:30 of the 3Q, with Anti-Greek sitting.  Greek has gotten his, but Hill and Connaught have played a big role in winning these last 2 games in Baked Bean Town.  And that's the kind of ish, a healthy Smart could put a stop to.

I will give Kyrie some credit.  With his shot not falling -- I only saw a 2nd half replay and missed his 5-17 or whatever 1st half -- he started driving and getting fouled or kicking to open perimeter shooters.  3Q Celts missed 2 wide open 3's off Kyrie passes.  Another good pass looked like it would end in a hockey-assist 3, but Jaylen Brown chose to drive on the 2nd pass.  4Q was similar.

I still think Kyrie should get everyone involved and run the team better.  But he at least adjusted to his shooting slump.
Speaking of, Tatum was 0-11 on 3's for the series before making one in the 4Q.  He looked somewhat out of sync.
Horford wasn't sharp in G4.
Haywire a no-show. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 07, 2019, 02:06:25 PM
Fac gettin a workout in

https://twitter.com/overtime/status/1125222907070828544
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 07, 2019, 02:12:04 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 07, 2019, 02:06:25 PM
Fac gettin a workout in

https://twitter.com/overtime/status/1125222907070828544

That’s a great video Kid. The guy kinda reminds me of Jimmer washing out of the NBA.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 07, 2019, 06:30:54 PM
did I mention.....

The Lesterdawg Household are all LIVERPOOL FANS....woohoo!!!!!!!!


* hope to experience another Knick moment as meaningful and wonderful as today's quick corner 4th goal sometime, someday......please, please, please, please, please, pleases.....

*** and hope to hear a Knick coach be able to call his players "f*cking mentality giants" afterwards :))

**** “I said to the boys before the game that this is impossible, but because it’s you, it’s possible,”
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 07, 2019, 06:35:46 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 07, 2019, 02:06:25 PM
Fac gettin a workout in

https://twitter.com/overtime/status/1125222907070828544

Best response i saw:   Still a better shooter than Ben Simmons
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 07, 2019, 09:03:11 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on May 07, 2019, 06:30:54 PM
did I mention.....

The Lesterdawg Household are all LIVERPOOL FANS....woohoo!!!!!!!!


* hope to experience another Knick moment as meaningful and wonderful as today's quick corner 4th goal sometime, someday......please, please, please, please, please, pleases.....

*** and hope to hear a Knick coach be able to call his players "f*cking mentality giants" afterwards :))

**** “I said to the boys before the game that this is impossible, but because it’s you, it’s possible,”

Fuckin A!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 08, 2019, 01:35:38 PM
Lowry played a good game.  Scored early, was a pest on D.
Took the ball away from Monroe twice underneath in the 1Q.
Both Lowry and vanVleet did a nice job of preventing Butler post-ups.  PHI seemed intent on posting it's bigger players and it didn't work well.  Embiid was a disaster.  Losing the ball frequently.
With Butler mostly manning the point, Simmons isn't effective.

In garbage time, Lin looked good.
made a nice drop off pass for a layup, popped a 3, came around from behind on a sneaky double-team and stripped a posting up PHI Big.  Got to dribble out the clock.  Lin looked pretty sharp.  Good insurance.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 08, 2019, 03:05:04 PM
A bit tiring listening to analysts micromanage player stocks based on a playoff series

Embiid deserves bettter from Shaq.  Kyrie from everyone.

Yes, Irvig is still quite desirable, with or without a "second star".  NY radio talking heads have to reboot on their "Kyrie is just Melo redux without a Durant coming with him" take.

Hope over the summer we get better analysis in general.  (NBA radio on Sirrius highly recommended)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 08, 2019, 06:28:42 PM
Kyrie:
+ : Terrific Offender, with a great handle, very good shot, can get to the rim, and get off clutch shots.
- : Weak defense; moody, not a great teammate, doesn't run a  team that great.

You also have to factor in somewhat injury-prone and the red flag of wanting out of a perennial finals contender.

Kyrie has enough talent and the Knix are desperate for a quality starting PG that they'd have to offer him a max.  But it's certainly a risk putting the franchise in his hands.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 08, 2019, 06:37:37 PM
Draft combine attendees

https://www.nba.com/article/2019/05/08/66-players-attend-nba-draft-combine
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on May 08, 2019, 06:38:15 PM
If you believe in the concept of "defensive metrics" (and I can't say that I do because I don't know what half the components that go into it mean), than Irving has improved defensively a huge amount.
Title: Kyrie
Post by: carlos123 on May 08, 2019, 10:20:18 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 08, 2019, 03:05:04 PM
A bit tiring listening to analysts micromanage player stocks based on a playoff series

Embiid deserves bettter from Shaq.  Kyrie from everyone.

Yes, Irvig is still quite desirable, with or without a "second star".  NY radio talking heads have to reboot on their "Kyrie is just Melo redux without a Durant coming with him" take.

Hope over the summer we get better analysis in general.  (NBA radio on Sirrius highly recommended)

No, Chico ... Kyrie is just STEPHON redux WITH OR WITHOUT a Durant coming with him. Let him just go to the Brooklyn Nyets. Like I said, we can take D'Angelo or Dinwiddie to help them clear a spot for him. And lets keep Dennis Smith Jr. while we're at it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 08, 2019, 10:28:20 PM
Mr Ainge

You are ON THE CLOCK.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 08, 2019, 10:32:18 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 08, 2019, 06:28:42 PM
Kyrie:
+ : Terrific Offender, with a great handle, very good shot, can get to the rim, and get off clutch shots.
- : Weak defense; moody, not a great teammate, doesn't run a  team that great.

You also have to factor in somewhat injury-prone and the red flag of wanting out of a perennial finals contender.

Kyrie has enough talent and the Knix are desperate for a quality starting PG that they'd have to offer him a max.  But it's certainly a risk putting the franchise in his hands.

INCREDIBLE that anyone would be saying this after all the years looking for a lead guy.

Only negative on Kyrie to Knicks is Coach Fiz can't use the "I am going to mold him" sentiment in the summer.

Oh, wait - that's right - that's a positive.

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on May 08, 2019, 10:42:39 PM
Celts know they had a game tonight?

No one except Smart and MaMo showed.

A merciful end to a very unsatisfying year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 08, 2019, 11:12:50 PM
Kyrie:
- Leader?
- Overrated?


Btw, Durant is the next Melo . . .

You can see GSW put more emphasis on rebounding after getting beat by HOU's 6'6" and under team.  Kerr using Looney more and his job is to board.
Title: Re: Celts
Post by: carlos123 on May 08, 2019, 11:13:11 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on May 08, 2019, 10:42:39 PM
Celts know they had a game tonight?

No one except Smart and MaMo showed.

A merciful end to a very unsatisfying year.

If it serves as consolation, I hope you guys get to keep Kyrie 😉
Title: Re: Celts
Post by: bankshot1 on May 08, 2019, 11:19:22 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 08, 2019, 11:13:11 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on May 08, 2019, 10:42:39 PM
Celts know they had a game tonight?

No one except Smart and MaMo showed.

A merciful end to a very unsatisfying year.

If it serves as consolation, I hope you guys get to keep Kyrie 😉

LOL

He had a tough year, and a brutal last 4-games. Almost inexplicably bad. 

So he may be on to his next team to bring his basketball genius IQ and leadership skills to.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 09, 2019, 12:07:18 AM
If Kyrie bolts, then he missed one BOS postseason with injury and was sub-par the next year ... and gone.

GSW let HOU of the hook at the end of the 2Q, so just a 14 lead, down form a high of 20.  Late 2Q, Durnat missed a wide open corner 3; Klay missed consecutive elbow 3's on the next possession; then Scurry missed the rim on a 3 attempt. 

Scurry and Durant have both blown.  Weird.
Scurry 2-10 for 5 Pts mid 3Q.

GSW got out in transition a fair amount 1st half, for some easy scores.  G5 has very much been a game of runs.
HOU has done a good job of closing quarters these playoffs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 09, 2019, 01:19:33 AM
Warriors got it done in the last frame. On to game 6. Volleyball players are a game up on the middle linebackers.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 09, 2019, 01:58:19 AM
Sloppy game.
Klay threw a very weak pass out of a double team.
GS was lucky Gordon stumbled and couldn't corral it and Looney saved it in the corner.  Nearly a turnover up 3 with 8 secs left.

Anyone notice that Chris Paul has aged 3 years between the regular season and the playoffs?  Actually he had a somewhat down season, but a lot was masked by Hardon doing everything on offense.  CP3 turned 34 a few days ago.  Fairly old for a PG.
Never was Mr. Post-Season, which will hurt his legacy.

Dray's 6th foul was awful.  A dumb reach in as the help defender, when Klay had Gordon bottled up fairly well.  Just under the 1:30 mark.  Stopped the clock.  Gave HOU 2 FT's/Pts.  And with Durant out, Green can't exit on a dumb foul like that.  I thought the Tech Dray got after taking a charge with 5 fouls was garbage.  Refs called things tight all 4Q, which was annoying/boring.
The Tech revved Dray up and then he hit a key 3 pointer, before dumbly fouling out.

I thought Looney was the unsung hero.  He got boards and kept possessions alive.  had a terrific late block on CP3, just prior to Dray's foul-out.  Saved the ball in the corner with 8 secs left and fed Klay to seal the game.  Good effort and impact.  Jerebko was ineffective.   

Klay, Dray & Scurry all played big minutes (45, 40, 44 respectively).  This is a thin GSW team.  Better hope KD can play the rest of this series.

Harden and MotherTucker played 45 mins each.  Harden seemed kind of quiet 4Q.  One late possession, harden took his time crossing midcourt, when HOU was running a Chris Paul set.

Awful Rivers had a bad outing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 09, 2019, 09:18:27 AM
Lakers need to interview some white coaches.  (Hollins, Kidd next on list after Monty and Tyrone got looks) 

Mark Jackson, Mike Woodson and Juwan Howard also mentioned
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 09, 2019, 09:22:28 AM
Waiting for the 2 minute report

Greenburg of ESPN thinks Klay may have stepped out of bounds - and I thought Looney was fouled before passing to Klay (Looney to line for 2 shots, up 3, 6 ticks left would have been outcome)
Title: Re: Celts
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 09, 2019, 09:23:36 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 08, 2019, 11:13:11 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on May 08, 2019, 10:42:39 PM
Celts know they had a game tonight?

No one except Smart and MaMo showed.

A merciful end to a very unsatisfying year.

If it serves as consolation, I hope you guys get to keep Kyrie 😉

Slim and None - and Slim just left town.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 09, 2019, 09:24:59 AM
Actually hearing opinions of "Blow it up" today re:  Celts.

Also heard LeBron to Knicks for Zion pick +, should we get it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 09, 2019, 12:20:02 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 09, 2019, 09:18:27 AM
Lakers need to interview some white coaches.  (Hollins, Kidd next on list after Monty and Tyrone got looks) 

Why?
Fwiw, Kidd looks white to me.

(https://cdn-s3.si.com/s3fs-public/images/1996-jason-kidd-mom-anne-girlfriend-joumana.jpg)

There he is with his Mom and ex-wife-to-be Joumana (in pre-battered condition).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 09, 2019, 01:50:28 PM
Why is interviewing no white coaches a problem?

heh

(I do now see Vogel on the list, though no interview scheduled)
Title: Coaches and Chico
Post by: carlos123 on May 09, 2019, 02:31:49 PM
Chico, I don’t think the rest of us really care if a coach is black, white, brown, green or any other color.

But I would like a Knicks coach who knows his business. Wouldn’t that be nice?
Title: Re: Coaches and Chico
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 09, 2019, 02:35:52 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 09, 2019, 02:31:49 PM
Chico, I don’t think the rest of us really care if a coach is black, white, brown, green or any other color.

But I would like a Knicks coach who knows his business. Wouldn’t that be nice?

Had one

He is coaching Harden now
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 09, 2019, 03:01:05 PM
Nice job by Smart defending Kyrie

https://twitter.com/JaredWeissNBA/status/1126546491177406467
Title: Re: Coaches and Chico
Post by: carlos123 on May 09, 2019, 03:35:25 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 09, 2019, 02:35:52 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 09, 2019, 02:31:49 PM
Chico, I don’t think the rest of us really care if a coach is black, white, brown, green or any other color.

But I would like a Knicks coach who knows his business. Wouldn’t that be nice?

Had one

He is coaching Harden now

True dat.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 09, 2019, 05:12:23 PM
I'm glad you don't hide your views, because I often forget there are people who think like you do.

I thought the Lakes brass already interviewed Vogel and were so impressed they wanted him on Lue's staff -- when Lue was LeBJ's choice and looked like he'd be the next coach.
Apparently LBJ wanted Thibs as lead assistant.

Iirc, D'Ant was reluctant to have a defensive guru when he was in NY.  Wound up with Woodson. But with HOU he can't live without Bzdelik (a guy I always liked).  Melo wanted Dant gone.
Title: What views and what people?
Post by: carlos123 on May 09, 2019, 09:07:41 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 09, 2019, 05:12:23 PM
I'm glad you don't hide your views, because I often forget there are people who think like you do.


Whose views, what views and what people?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 09, 2019, 09:15:29 PM
me? I'd like to see Jimmy Buckets in a Knick uni....
Title: Baaad boy Les
Post by: carlos123 on May 09, 2019, 09:42:34 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on May 09, 2019, 09:15:29 PM
me? I'd like to see Jimmy Buckets in a Knick uni....

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/KE2NO6ZsXZHI2MaN5zZWP_O-FDY6PYMAVuEpYnCu0KIiCgApCqY2sFajG74HTugOzp_V-AyWrJx-b6U-e-JGkZnuxSH8fUs9T3H8Cm5NcjnHh41FCz-awZ6XRbWdy2TwziLEWQ696fwqH_nm-jrou5Alzp70rq2nqCagDPcetra4sflud0-3bcJ8MqMwqQtJq_SRPO3e4rXlr0RtvefitHTGU9siiMArgS3D-FBFP-5gYTdy2bFThEKbT19WW9ZIuAq0NF9S49W8724AtQWggGWeN103NkMbFg9SfFQrIo_M5xQizkvpB6XRTJhG0RIe9VlS11xEBRNXZN4WcX06yS8X3HwHv-cYJECFnjOD2QfCLPXb6_kJlOvCaikaWahCwOkKhzgq2F_3EQsGPNwsKEumPNWyafnVaCJvGXYbs_OCWSbfoCsbbNWe8pHusrVpmhnWIDqMvQx3Xno6pSBm5_WROlL5t_zJdbiAQeQcFvo76yc2Yx5s7kq84JZsKZK8DG2XZHmHYGo0pVgvxmGjFTy_1wDXxR2H9RcQwLw7dJ8X5z5GupIRr4yjOpLYRYdcD-payEDOd1Z7Afj8azimG8pBePBJswn6rqNqOQFHz09r7JUopwIEiB-CUbjSMCk3MhG_XQCRdG3jkhx6obsV3ipJR25H2VU=w491-h624-no)

(https://media.tenor.com/images/f45dc3deb54ae86b9276bd0aaa790972/tenor.gif) INTERNET EVIL TYPE CLUB
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 10, 2019, 12:13:57 PM
TOR had trouble scoring in G6.
Missed a lot of shots, 3's, 6 foot jump hooks by Ibaka, etc.
2nd half, Embiid blocked kawhi twice near the rim.
Siakim didn't have a good game.
Lowry didn't get going.
Green misfired.

6ers took advantage of their size down low.
Seems these whole playoffs the team that rebounds best wins (most games).

Here's something in my mind the last few years.
In these days of analytics and data, how come no one seems to have a good idea of how to manage the last few minutes when down a fair amount.  At some point it should become a necessity to shoot a 3 every time, or get fouled quickly and make 2.  For instance, when a team is down 18 with 4 mins left, is it time to shoot only 3's?  How about 18 down and 3'30" left? 18 and 3'?

Sure the opps time of possession will vary, but it's not hard to watch a ton of film and calculate an average possession length for a team with a big lead and under 5 mins left.  When they have an incentive to play slow.  Let's say an average opp possession is 16 secs.  And the comeback-attempting team needs an average of 8 secs to get a quality shot.  If the lead team fails to score, it takes 24 secs on average to score and cut the deficit.  At some point, scoring 2 points most trips is useless.
And of course the lead team will score some.

I see all the time, teams down say 12 with 2 mins left, run plays, take a bunch of time and get a midrange shot after 15 secs or more.  It seems like a recipe for defeat, essentially a concession speech.  I'd much rather see them take the first decent 3 point shot even if a bit rushed.  At some point, that's the only way to win.  A relatively quick 3.
I always expect to see teams go for quick 3's and they almost never do except when it's say 6 points and 12 secs, desperation time and reasonably close.

Seems teams should know when they need to get off a 3-pointer quickly to have any chance of getting back into a game.
I also think teams should put on fullcourt pressure and try to get 8-sec backcourt violations.  Things that almost never occur.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 10, 2019, 03:15:46 PM
Coaches usually lean toward, "lets score here then see if we can get a quick steal"

I don't mind it.

Hey...check Bermans Kyrie piece today in Post.  Takes a shot at Knicks for passing on Bud

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 10, 2019, 04:25:58 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 10, 2019, 03:15:46 PM
Coaches usually lean toward, "lets score here then see if we can get a quick steal"

That makes sense for a down 5 with maybe 20 secs left type of scenario.  But I'm talking about down double digits with time dwindling (4 mins or less).  At some point a team needs to get a quick shot off, and it ought to be a 3.  I find it frustrating when teams don't take the first available 3, instead wasting time running a possession that ends with a 2 point shot.  I don't get the idea of just playing out the clock instead of making a genuine effort to win.  At some point 3's become the only winning option, unless you can get 4 or 5 steals in a row (extremely rare) or draw bonus fouls very quickly (in just a few secs) to stop the clock.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 10, 2019, 08:50:05 PM
HOU -7.5

Lock it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on May 10, 2019, 11:41:00 PM
Thanks, Kid! I thought you know things. Now I have to pull my daughter out of college.
Title: Splash Brothers say ...
Post by: carlos123 on May 10, 2019, 11:43:06 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 10, 2019, 08:50:05 PM
HOU -7.5

Lock it.

Really? 😂
Title: Tonight clinched KD leaving GS
Post by: Kam on May 10, 2019, 11:56:19 PM
They won without him, and Steph returned to being Steph.  Steph set a personal record for pts in the 4th tonight.


This was Steph's team, it will always be about Steph, Dray and Klay.   


They didn't need KD and they didn't need Cousins.


Barry should've never taken the roids either.


Just another example of San Fran doin too much
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 11, 2019, 07:21:14 AM
I always go into these Houston - GS elimination games expecting to root for the Rockets.
Sick of the Warriors. Let Houston have its turn., etc, etc., etc.,....

While watching, however, always end up rooting for GS.
They play basketball. Gotta respect that. Unlike that cynical, bastardized, boring-ass crap D'Ant & Harden serve up.

Plus, James Harden clearly doesn't believe in himself.
And if he doesn't, why should anybody else?

***Now...Go Blazers. Go Nuggets. Go 76ers. Go Bucks. Go Raptors...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 11, 2019, 07:23:46 AM
I think they are better without Boogie.
And it was always clear they were a top team with or without KD.
Durant adds a good deal, but also takes away some too.

The main issue is GSW has a thin, not solid bench.
Looney has been playing well, understands his role, foul prone.
McKinnie athletic but inexperienced.
Livingston has aged.
Jereb a decent journeyman.
They don't seem to trust Jordan Bell.
Some talk Damion Jones might return in another series or two.

Adding KD and Boogie came at the cost of shoring up their bench.
I would have gone for a solid bench piece instead of Boogie, but I guess at $5M or whatever he was too tempting.

Other players who signed 1 year deals for $5.3M or less:
Brook Lopez: $3.4M
Ed Davis: $4.5M
Kyle O'Quinnthemightyeskimo: $4.4M
Tony Parker: $5M (2 years at $5M each)
Nene: $3.7M (2 year deal)
Elfin Payton: $3M
Lance: $4.5M
Seth Curry: $2.8M
Luol Deng: $2.4M
Vonleh: $1.6M

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 11, 2019, 07:28:41 AM
In this series, prob better without Boogie. 

Now, if you're going up against Embid or Jokic, not so clear.

But, yes, their bench certainly isn't what it has been.

Next series will be fun. Finals, whether they are in it or not, should be fun.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 11, 2019, 08:14:42 AM
Verrrry disappointing last night.  Just a supreme HOF effort by Curry.  And credit the other Warriors for a first half that set the tone.

Go, Nuggets.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on May 11, 2019, 08:24:57 AM
If I needed money I'd never bet on a James Harden team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 11, 2019, 09:45:48 AM
Chris Paul ain't won nothing neither ...

So with Durant out, GSW will probably add Melo to fill the void ...

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 11, 2019, 11:10:40 AM
Kid/Fac - picks for next round after the two G7s are done. Will post scores. Everyone will need to make some changes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 11, 2019, 11:11:09 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on May 11, 2019, 07:21:14 AM
I always go into these Houston - GS elimination games expecting to root for the Rockets.
Sick of the Warriors. Let Houston have its turn., etc, etc., etc.,....

While watching, however, always end up rooting for GS.
They play basketball. Gotta respect that. Unlike that cynical, bastardized, boring-ass crap D'Ant & Harden serve up.


Totally.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 11, 2019, 11:44:46 AM
I always watch Rockettes games wondering how anybody can root for them.  And HOU is basically China's team, so lots of Rockets/Harden fans here.

I wonder if Harden played the same style, but did things quickly if that would make a significant difference.  Instead of the standing with the ball, multiple dribbles and fakes, if he just drive, stepped-back, or passed quickly.  I think it'd be much more watchable and one could appreciate his game then.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 11, 2019, 12:05:43 PM
Just caught a replay.
GSW got good minutes out of their bench.
Bench scored 1st half and sucked up useful minutes 3Q.
especially useful sicne Scurry & Dray had minor foul trouble.

Weird lull with 5 to 3 left in 4Q, where no one could score.
Klay had the dagger 3.
Iggy hit timely 3's.
Looney was effective.

CP3 showed up.
Harden was somewhat quiet.
Two errors down the stretch -- off. foul for shoving Dray with a little over 2 mins left; dribbled off his foot down 6 with 16 secs or so left.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on May 11, 2019, 12:21:07 PM
During that lull, my son (who lives in SF) and I sent each other simultaneous "what the hell is going on?" texts. Each team was getting wide open shots, even lay-ups, nobody was making them. But nobody was getting back on or playing much D either. I assume everyone was exhausted.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 11, 2019, 01:48:31 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on May 11, 2019, 08:24:57 AM
If I needed money I'd never bet on a James Harden team.

I think that's not entirely fair.   If you had said D'antoni team i'd agree.

In defense of the beard he played 39 minutes and looked exhausted in the last five minutes.

Curry played 34 minutes.  And ironically for all the talk of the weak W's bench, their bench out scored Houston's 33-17.


Houston had no scorers on their bench.  So the starters had to carry too much of the load.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 11, 2019, 02:15:00 PM
If Durant leaves, I think Houston has to run it back with some better bench wings. If Durant comes back, I have no idea how Houston recovers from this.

If Boogie and Durant are gone for at least the first 2-4 games of the next round, do either Denver or Portland cause any concern for the Warriors? Which one is more worrisome?

On a related note, who do you think Milwaukee would prefer to face?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 11, 2019, 05:31:45 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 11, 2019, 01:48:31 PM
Houston had no scorers on their bench.  So the starters had to carry too much of the load.

Not true ...
AuRevoir and Green Gerald are both scorers. Just erratic ones.
Faried is very much a scorer but barely played in the GS series (just 5 mins in G2).  House only played G1 & 5 mins in G2.

D'ant went with Shump and Nene over House and Faried.  Preferred defenders and guys with playoff experience.

For the most part Rivers and Shump played better than Green, but all 3 were up and down with good and bad games in the GSW series.
Title: Vogel it is
Post by: carlos123 on May 11, 2019, 08:36:55 PM
Lakers land on former Pacers coach Frank Vogel as next head coach
Yahoo Sports
JACK BAER
May 11th 2019 7:39PM
After multiple twists and turns, the Los Angeles Lakers coaching search has reportedly reached what the team hopes to be its final destination.

Former Indiana Pacers head coach Frank Vogel has reached an agreement with the Lakers to be the team’s next head coach, ESPN’s Adrian Wojnarowski reports. The news was later confirmed by the Los Angeles Times’ Tania Ganguli.


Adrian Wojnarowski
✔
@wojespn
 Frank Vogel has agreed to a deal to become the next coach of the Los Angeles Lakers, league sources tell ESPN.

Vogel will bring eight years of head coaching experience and a 304-291 record with him to the Staples Center, where expectations remain undoubtedly high as fans grow increasingly desperate to see the winning promised by the arrival of LeBron James last year.

Also headed to the Lakers coaching staff is former Milwaukee Bucks coach Jason Kidd, whose addition was reportedly a point of contention in negotiations with the team’s previous pick for their head coaching job, Tyronn Lue.


Adrian Wojnarowski
✔
@wojespn
 Jason Kidd has agreed to join Vogel's Lakers staff in a prominent assistant coaching role, league sources tell ESPN.

Adrian Wojnarowski
✔
@wojespn
Frank Vogel has agreed to a deal to become the next coach of the Los Angeles Lakers, league sources tell ESPN.

Another point of contention was reportedly contract length. Lue wanted a five-year deal, the Lakers insisted on three. Vogel’s contract length: three years, according to Wojnarowski.
Title: Lakers can't help themselves
Post by: Kam on May 11, 2019, 10:45:03 PM
The Vogel hire was a professional adult decision... something a "well-run franchise" would do.

The addition of Kidd is gonzo!  The mark of an organization with its head firmly up its asshat.

Let us not forget that Jkidd  once tried to get his bosses job (Brooklyns former GM) and that failed power grab ended with him as Coach remember being traded to Milwaukee for a couple of 2nd rounders.

Why does JKidd need to be the Prominent Assistant?  Why is he there at all if not as eventual Coach/spy.

This is wrong wrong wrong.

But i don't care.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 11, 2019, 10:53:27 PM
Well, that's good.

----

Kidd can coach.  Vogel is OK with it.  Play on.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 11, 2019, 10:56:41 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 11, 2019, 10:53:27 PM
Well, that's good.

----

Kidd can coach.  Vogel is OK with it.  Play on.

Vogel was ok with it because the Lakers made that a part of the Job.  Ty Lue didn't accept that BS.   
How long before Kidd backstabs Vogel?  Kidd wants to be the Head Coach of the Lakers. 
You don't invite a wolf into the henhouse.
Title: Henhouse
Post by: carlos123 on May 12, 2019, 12:02:26 AM
Kam(s)ter, it’s a Fox 🦊

Ur welcome 😎
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 12, 2019, 12:08:08 AM
Quote from: Kam on May 11, 2019, 10:56:41 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 11, 2019, 10:53:27 PM
Well, that's good.

----

Kidd can coach.  Vogel is OK with it.  Play on.

Vogel was ok with it because the Lakers made that a part of the Job.  Ty Lue didn't accept that BS.   
How long before Kidd backstabs Vogel?  Kidd wants to be the Head Coach of the Lakers. 
You don't invite a wolf into the henhouse.

I think they will do just fine next year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 12, 2019, 04:37:37 AM
You also thought the Rockets would beat the Warriors.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 12, 2019, 09:14:39 AM
I don't mind having ambitious or high-powered assistants.
Seems the theory is that Kidd can work with Lonzo who could be the next Kidd.  Remember Kidd wasn't much of a shooter for most of his career.  Kidd a great mentor for Ball.  Ball could be a key for LAL.

Sure it has vibes of Lue as Blatt's assistant, and LeBJ gravitating towards Lue (and blowing off Blatt).  If Kidd is the better head coach, he can slot in later.  But I like when D'antmanbee gave Bzdelik great sway over the Rockets D.  D isn't what Dant does, so he outsourced it (or insourced it I guess).

I like Vogel, preaches D, is well-prepared -- my kind of coach.
One EsPN article said that the Vogel hire has the fingerprints of Rambo and Phil on it, as they almost offered Vogel the Knick job before going with Hornacek.  I didn't know that (or forgot it).

There's also a new rumor that Kyrie is considering LAL and to reteam with LBJ.  Kind of crazy, but who thought LBJ would leave CLE and then return (uh, and leave again)?  Or that Kyrie would bail on LBJ and guaranteed trips to the Finals in the weak East?  Or that Kawhi would demand a trade out of always-well-run SAS?
Strange things happening every off-season ...

I have one of Kyrie/Durant going to BKY (maybe both!).
But that's just based on a  hunch, and the market dynamics, and the rosters.  I'd say there's a 75% chance Kyrie leaves BOS; while Durant might be more 50/50.  But who knows what young rich egomaniacs might do. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 12, 2019, 02:44:20 PM
Neither goes to BK.

One or both to NY.

Other to Golden State or Bulls or Clippers.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 12, 2019, 02:45:11 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on May 12, 2019, 04:37:37 AM
You also thought the Rockets would beat the Warriors.

Might...
Title: Market dynamics
Post by: Kam on May 12, 2019, 02:51:27 PM
There is no way you go to the #2 Franchise in the #1 Market if the #1 Franchise is available.
Title: Kristaps Porzingis apparently got jumped in his hometown
Post by: Kam on May 12, 2019, 03:27:58 PM
KP got his ass beat in a fight in his hood back in Europa.

https://nypost.com/2019/05/12/video-surfaces-of-bloody-kristaps-porzingis-after-latvia-fight/ (https://nypost.com/2019/05/12/video-surfaces-of-bloody-kristaps-porzingis-after-latvia-fight/)


He dressed like a 12-year old wannabe gangster with his chains and white T.

Remember his corn-rows phase?

You aint about that life KP
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 12, 2019, 03:37:24 PM
very mobile, the knee looks good...
Title: Re: Market dynamics
Post by: bodiddley on May 12, 2019, 03:41:24 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 12, 2019, 02:51:27 PM
There is no way you go to the #2 Franchise in the #1 Market if the #1 Franchise is available.

Yeah, well wait til Kawhi signs with the Clippers.
(actually I think/hope he'll stay with TOR)

The way I see it:
1) BKY has a better team with significant role players ready to play with a star or two.  LaVert, Dinwiddie, Jarrett Allen, DMC, Kurucs, RHJ, JoeHarris.  Maybe Ed Davis and possibly Tangelo.
They have a 20+ game head start on NYK.  They got a taste of the playoffs.  They have a terrific young coach.
Who is the Knix best player next year?
Maybe the incoming rook ...
Jr. Smith, Mud, Mitch, Knox, maybe Vonleh, possibly DeAndre.
That's a lot more unproven talent than BKY.
Nets players are ready for a leap; Knix aren't.
And I think it will dissuade Durnat, because you don't know who the Knix would bring in and who would go to make a competitive team.  Figure Mitch stays, and everyone else potentially gone.

2) Knix always have drama and problems and distractions.  Always.  You get dumb stuff like Larry Brown holding roadside press conferences.  Or rape trials.  Guys getting sent away from the team.  I can't believe the way Melo, and KZ and Noah were treated goes unnoticed.  Knix also churn through coaches and have a 2nd year coach returning. 

3) The pressure and press attention is less in BKY.   The expectations lower.  Durant and Kyrie both are good with the press.  And would invite more of the Knick paranoid style of media dealings.  With NYK you always get measured by the long-ago championship teams or the 90's Riley/JVG teams.  In BKY, if you win or are very competitive there you can create a new legacy, not merely try to match what has been done before.  NYK sets you up for failure, BKY is almost a blank slate, with the NJ days in the past.  Succeed in BKY and you make a huge splash.

Summary: Knix offer too much uncertainty, unreadiness and potential for failure.  BKY lets you breathe and is a more ready-made gig.
Title: Re: Market dynamics
Post by: Kam on May 12, 2019, 03:44:45 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 12, 2019, 03:41:24 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 12, 2019, 02:51:27 PM
There is no way you go to the #2 Franchise in the #1 Market if the #1 Franchise is available.

Yeah, well wait til Kawhi signs with the Clippers.

Lakers (with LBJ) are unavailable to Kawhi if he wants HIS team.

KD can be the savior/hero of the Nets or the Knicks.

When his legacy is written he doesn't want to be the NETS guy.

The NETS traded for JKidd after his welcome was worn out in PHX.

They aint getting high profile names in free agency.

There is no charisma that comes with being the #1 guy on the NETS.

Knicks brand  > Nets brand no matter how many seasons.

Just like Yankees brand > Mets brand.

Its a Knicks town.
Title: Re: Market dynamics
Post by: Kam on May 12, 2019, 03:51:59 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 12, 2019, 03:41:24 PM

Summary: Knix offer too much uncertainty, unreadiness and potential for failure.  BKY lets you breathe and is a more ready-made gig.

None of this matters.   Guys say to themselves.... if i go there, i'll make that team great.


They don't examine the trees - they think about how they can own the entire forest.


Owning the Knicks forest is better.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on May 12, 2019, 04:47:41 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 12, 2019, 02:45:11 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on May 12, 2019, 04:37:37 AM
You also thought the Rockets would beat the Warriors.

Might...
You gave 7.5 points and instructed all to do the same. Might.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 12, 2019, 05:48:23 PM
I think guys look at who they'll be playing with, who will be coaching, the team's reputation.  Knix have been losers for a long time.  Players and coaches reputations tend to go bad in NY.  Etc.

Good G7.
I basically assumed that the home teams will win.
But I don't have faith in either DEN or POR.  POR with more experience.  But can you win relying on RodHood?
McCollum having a terrific game.

Teams combined 6-45 on 3's.

Mo Hark had a nice 3Q.
Zach played damn hard.
Fun game, even with Lillard struggling to shoot, POR won.
Lillard did make 2 key 3's in the 4Q.
Title: Ertogan's Biggest Nightmare (Where You At PrickIke?))
Post by: lesterluv on May 12, 2019, 06:19:13 PM
Enes "no room for me in the modern game" Kanter on the floor at crunch time in the best game of the 2019 playoffs.... lol, lol, lol.....

*** 40 f'n minutes, needed every one, and hasn't had a sip of water since dawn

What a game.
Love both these teams.
Bright future for Denver.
Can't wait for the next series.

*** sorry Kam, you can't take off your co-dunce of the millenium hat for another round
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 12, 2019, 06:28:16 PM
Kanter was up and down in G7.
Had some shaky moments on both ends.
Schooled by Jokic a few times; tried to pass to the corner on the move and threw the ball out of bounds 4Q, clanked a shot slightly out of his range 4Q.  Lost a late rebound that Ev Turner recovered.

Did keep a number of balls alive on the glass.
Did a credible job v. Jokic late.
Was on and off court late as POR needed his boarding.
Overall, a fairly solid game from Kant, with hiccups.
Jokic a tough cover.

Btw, Joker made DEN's only 2 3-pointers.  Rest of Nugs were 0-17.  Funny thing is JVG and Jax kept harping on POR missing 3's and what their % was, while DEN was worse but went unremarked upon..
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 12, 2019, 06:34:42 PM
Thought his two makes during the run back were pretty key. He got schooled maybe more than a few times. But also turned Jokic back more than a few times. A couple times, Jokic felt him, decided not to go in, and just passed the ball out. That's the Nuggets' biggest advantage nullified. Also, a few big boards and tips. What with his shoulder, probably best as he could do, and they don't move on otherwise.

Basketball is so much better when big men are involved.

*** And as for all those missed Denver threes, Kanter did a really credible man-on-man vs. a guy who is a top 5 mvp candidate; Portland defenders stayed on the shooters, goes a long way to helping to explain.


**** Also, sooner or later Denver's inexperience had to show up, that's just how it is..
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 12, 2019, 06:59:11 PM
DEN always keeps a Big out there.
Gonna be interesting with GSW.
If KD is healthy, they might not even bother with Bogut.
Making POR decide if/when/how to use Kanter.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 12, 2019, 07:15:53 PM
would expect a reduced role either way, which is good for EK as maybe he can heal up a little bit for the subsequent round  :)
Title: LMAO
Post by: carlos123 on May 12, 2019, 08:23:48 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 12, 2019, 02:45:11 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on May 12, 2019, 04:37:37 AM
You also thought the Rockets would beat the Warriors.

Might...

LMAO


Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 10, 2019, 08:50:05 PM
HOU -7.5

Lock it.

Really? 😂
Title: Re: KAM(S)TER'S Biggest Nightmare
Post by: carlos123 on May 12, 2019, 08:31:39 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on May 12, 2019, 06:19:13 PM
Enes "no room for me in the modern game" Kanter on the floor at crunch time in the best game of the 2019 playoffs.... lol, lol, lol.....

*** 40 f'n minutes, needed every one, and hasn't had a sip of water since dawn

*** sorry Kam, you can't take off your co-dunce of the millenium hat for another round
GO LES GO !!!

(https://media.tenor.com/images/f45dc3deb54ae86b9276bd0aaa790972/tenor.gif) INTERNET EVIL TYPE CLUB
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 12, 2019, 08:39:54 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 12, 2019, 08:31:39 PM

GO LES GO !!!

(https://media.tenor.com/images/f45dc3deb54ae86b9276bd0aaa790972/tenor.gif) INTERNET EVIL TYPE CLUB

Well, you know I've been holding it in for a while.
I've been pretty restrained lately, even when Harden choked for the 5th time.

*** mainly cause as awful as he was this time, it was nothing compared to last year, or, to the greatest no-show in NBA Playoff History, his game six performance in the forty point home elimination loss to the Spurs in 2017....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 12, 2019, 09:32:57 PM
JIMMMMMMMMMY BUCKETS!!!!

this is fun...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 12, 2019, 09:34:24 PM
KAWHI LEONARD!!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 12, 2019, 09:35:53 PM
those are the two guys I want, don't give a rat's ass about space case irving or carpetbag king durant....




**** OK, OK, we ain't getting either, but as long as we are dream shopping...THAT'S WHO I WANT
Title: WOW
Post by: carlos123 on May 12, 2019, 09:38:58 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on May 12, 2019, 09:34:24 PM
KAWHI LEONARD!!!!

What a performance.

A.M.A.Z.I.N.G

JUST F’IN AMAZING!!!
Title: KAWHI
Post by: carlos123 on May 12, 2019, 09:44:30 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on May 12, 2019, 09:35:53 PM
those are the two guys I want, don't give a rat's ass about space case irving or carpetbag king durant....


**** OK, OK, we ain't getting either, but as long as we are dream shopping...THAT'S WHO I WANT

You’re too ambitious. Kawhi is enough for me.

Ok, and finding a real coach. No KI!

But I’m ok with KD.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 12, 2019, 09:47:42 PM
well I wouldn't turn him down....



*** good stuff today, basketball is fun sometimes, maybe, by the time the grandson I don't have yet gets married Knick basketball will be fun again
Title: And by the way ...
Post by: carlos123 on May 12, 2019, 09:50:33 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on May 12, 2019, 09:47:42 PM
well I wouldn't turn him down....



*** good stuff today, basketball is fun sometimes, maybe, by the time the grandson I don't have yet gets married Knick basketball will be fun again

... don’t restrain yourself. I’m here to have fun 😎
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 13, 2019, 12:51:15 AM
Great game.  Credit Philly.


Kawhi stays

Kyrie leaves

KD leaves

Butler stays

Harris leaves

Kemba stays


- Nice job by much maligned Evan Turner by the way in the earlier contest.

Title: Well that sucked
Post by: Kam on May 13, 2019, 02:25:34 AM
I wanted Houston to beat GSW,  and i thought Denver had a better chance to beat GSW.

GO Blazers, i guess.

Enes did a great job playing if he was observing Ramadan.  He was always lauded for playing hurt.  Came to a game on crutches, played the game, and left on crutches.  All that stuff i can respect.   And he gets to keep playing.  Hope he keeps it up.  I am glad we won't be paying his next contract. 

For all the talk of Space Jam 2... Enes is actually re-living Jerome James's 2005

(https://i1.wp.com/bp0.blogger.com/_HvnrtGqYrfY/Ryl9fCN5VnI/AAAAAAAAAtk/JVVwyQxIsp4/s400/Jerome+James.jpg?zoom=2)


Title: Re: Market dynamics
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 13, 2019, 02:32:05 AM
Quote from: Kam on May 12, 2019, 03:51:59 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 12, 2019, 03:41:24 PM

Summary: Knix offer too much uncertainty, unreadiness and potential for failure.  BKY lets you breathe and is a more ready-made gig.

None of this matters.   Guys say to themselves.... if i go there, i'll make that team great.


I'd agree.
Title: Free Agents
Post by: Kam on May 13, 2019, 02:32:14 AM
Jimmy Butler is only one year younger than Kevin Durant but i feel like KD's game will age much more gracefully.
Title: Game 7s
Post by: Kam on May 13, 2019, 02:50:02 AM
Lester mentioned Denver's inexperience.  True dat.  The NBA is a different league.... you don't get any Las Vegas Golden Knights in the NBA like the NHL.  There are no worsts to firsts like in the NFL.   No Cinderellas. You gotta take your lumps.  Even the mighty Warriors had to lose to the Clippers in 2014 (1st rd, Game 7 loss) and Spurs in 2013 (2nd rd).  In 2015 many (myself included) said the Warriors got lucky in their WCF opponent (remember the favored Clippers choked away Game 7 with James Harden on the bench Houston game from behind in the 4th to upset them) but their previous playoff losses were the sacrifices unto the NBA gods that allowed their ascension.  It wasn't luck*. It was the residue of design.  A design born of necessity from the demise of previous incarnations.  Evolution is how it works in the NBA.  You must die a thousand deaths to develop the resistance so that you may live another day.

Portland is on a similar journey.  I won't say any more.  Don't want to jinx them.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I'm so happy for Toronto.   I'm so happy for us that we get to watch Giannis vs. Kawhi.


Philedelphia has a very unlikeable team.  And as previously stated.   They haven't evolved yet.  There was no way the NBA gods would see fit to allow them to advance.  Next year may be an entirely different story.  But as journey's go i think they are a year or two behind where Portland is. 

And the great thing about the NBA.... its like real life Game of Thrones..... you slow build these fledgling playoff squads year after year hoping one day a Portland or a Philadelphia might capture the throne... and you know they may never do it!  You might have to just be satisfied with the journey and not the result.  Knick fans of a certain age know that pain all too well.  All of us included.

--------------


*Ok  they did get pretty lucky LeBron chose to break up the Heatles.  Would've liked to have seen Dubs vs. Heat in 2015.  Instead they got Cleveland with Kevin Love and Kyrie Irving injured.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 13, 2019, 04:01:44 AM
The EC teams both have coaches who are in their first go around with their squads. The West has two teams with long tenured coaches. Does that give whichever western team emerges a leg up in the finals?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 13, 2019, 09:35:58 AM
https://twitter.com/SerenaWinters/status/1127784906204037121

Exactly, Joel!

Same goes for Harden and the Rockets

Fuck the so called analysts.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 13, 2019, 10:00:46 AM
Joel Embiid is a monster. He's still got a hell of a lot to learn about basketball and taking care of his body. I suspect he will do so if the body doesn't break down first.

James Harden actually had a better playoffs then in some of his prior, putrid performances, but he ain't never gonna win nothing nonetheless, certainly not while playing D'Antoni's rancid version of the game.

I don't think Budenholzer stands at a disadvantage to anyone in the league in terms of coaching matchups. Not so sure about Nurse.

I think the Blazers actually have a small, but real shot against the Warriors, especially given some of the strange dynamics there. Portland's starting backcourt is absolutely on par. Their role players, Turner, Hood, Collins, are doing what they're supposed to do for a team that's in sync and on a run, and they've got some others like Layman still in the trunk.

Big Snacks, lol, Big Snacks. Yeah that guy did parlay one playoff run into the contract-of-a-lifetime and taunted his tormentors while doing so, ala Enes. Not many other similarities though. Was like 30 years old averaging 4 points a game career when we laid the bucks on him. EK is 25 with a 20+ PER and one cheeseburger cheat day notwithstanding, can't keep out of the gym.


*** we had Jerome James and Eddy Curry on the team at the same time??? No wonder we continue to pay the supreme karmic price for past transgressions. If there were a way for us to bump down 29 slots to the last pick in the draft in Tuesday's draft lottery it would happen..surely no franchise, in any sport, in any era, has been so long term laughable
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 13, 2019, 10:28:49 AM
Disagree

Lean toward Warriors in 4 or 5.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 13, 2019, 11:32:43 AM
Small chance, I say, but real.


*** CJ is really in a special place right now. Damian every other game. For Klay & Curry, on the other hand, despite game six, it's kinda feeling like an effort to get there. Not predicting it by any means, but saying I can visualize it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 13, 2019, 12:19:48 PM
Helluva game 7.  The Rapture of the Raptors.
I made sure all day not to know who won, so I could watch a replay with the drama intact.  Turned out to be a great move.

Crazy last shot.  Though Kawhi should have just made his FT.
Unfortunately Chinese Tv cut right off after the game ended, in a  rush to get to their cricket-fighting show.  So I didn't even get one replay of the final shot.

Butler struggled much of the game, but made a few key shots.
Kawhi struggled much of the night, but persevered and had a strong 4Q.  Ibaka canned some important 3's, mostly 3Q.
Siakim was invisible.  Lowry couldn't get going (but had one tough basket down the stretch.  Really it was Kawhi doing it all.  41 Points in 43 minutes on a night when he really wasn't on much of the game.

Embiid had a string defensive game.  but every time he lined up a 3, I felt he was doing TOR a favor.  Gad, PHI was -9 in the 2 minutes that Embiid sat (and Monroe tried to play).  I have two words for that: Bo Ban.

Not sure how VanVleet was a +10.  Looked like he had no confidence in his shot.  Siakim also didn't want to shoot most of the game.

Bucks-Raps should be a good one.
Hope Brog and Anunoby will play.
Title: Rigged in Riga
Post by: bodiddley on May 13, 2019, 12:40:26 PM
So a group of Russian Knick fans whacked KZ with a chair in a Latvian bar because he left NY?
Title: Re: Rigged in Riga
Post by: carlos123 on May 13, 2019, 01:20:46 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 13, 2019, 12:40:26 PM
So a group of Russian Knick fans whacked KZ with a chair in a Latvian bar because he left NY?

They thought he had left the Nyets.

I think nobody can stop Giannis this year. He’s the true NBA Superman, ready to win it all.
Title: Re: Rigged in Riga
Post by: Kam on May 13, 2019, 02:29:26 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 13, 2019, 12:40:26 PM
So a group of Russian Knick fans whacked KZ with a chair in a Latvian bar because he left NY?

No. Because he sexually assaulted that poor woman.
Title: Reddit says
Post by: Kam on May 13, 2019, 03:14:31 PM
A Latvian poster on Reddit weighs in with his .02 Euros

The following is cut and pasted:


Porzingis with friends was partying at Cukurfabrik nightclub/bar (?). At the same time some country retards from Karosta (local nearby town, near Liepaja) also wanted to go there. The bouncers did not let them in or threw them out. They decided to wait outside and deal with that bouncer after his shift is done.
While waiting outside they met with Porzingis and his friends and started an argument (typical for local country retards). And a brawl began. One of Porzingis friends was beaten that bad that he was unconsciousness; there is a rumor that Porzingis broke arm +eye.

Eyewitnesses are saying that it was a real good bloody brawl.

EDIT: those country thugs may be Russian, but I doubt that because Kurzeme (Curland- western part of Latvia) has low % of Russians. And argument for sure was not about Porzingis going to Dallas. It was most likely something like: “oh, you are that rich NBA player from Liepaja, we country rednecks hate you, city snobs”. Something like that.
Title: Suspension coming?
Post by: Kam on May 13, 2019, 04:18:32 PM
Should KP be suspended for that shove?  He didn't have to get physical with that young woman.  If she falls....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 13, 2019, 04:26:06 PM
I will wait to hear what Cuban says
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 13, 2019, 04:38:39 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 13, 2019, 04:26:06 PM
I will wait to hear what Cuban says


You think he will make an example of KP because of the bad press his company received from the last scandal?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 13, 2019, 05:19:31 PM
??

no

I just know Cuban will have all required info
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 13, 2019, 05:27:13 PM
If Cuban wants to run for president he has to get his house in order.

https://sportsday.dallasnews.com/dallas-mavericks/mavericks/2018/09/19/shouldnt-forget-mark-cubans-role-mavericks-sexual-harassment-scandal (https://sportsday.dallasnews.com/dallas-mavericks/mavericks/2018/09/19/shouldnt-forget-mark-cubans-role-mavericks-sexual-harassment-scandal)
Title: Re: Reddit says
Post by: bodiddley on May 14, 2019, 12:51:31 AM
Quote from: Kam on May 13, 2019, 03:14:31 PM
EDIT: those country thugs may be Russian, but I doubt that because Kurzeme (Curland- western part of Latvia) has low % of Russians.

Courland has an interesting history.  In the 13th C, the Livonian Order, a branch of the Teutonic Knights took over the area and ruled for 300 years.  Middle Ages religious knights on horses killing pagans and whatnot. 

Then in 1561, Courland became a duchy and the Duke of Courland became a fairly powerful local player.  During Courland's 17thC heyday, KZ's town Liepaja became a major irona nd shipbuildign center, with one of the largets merchant fleets in Europe.  Courland even got in on the European colonization craze, taking over an island in the mouth of the Gambian River, and claiming Tobago in 1637 and running it off an on for a few decades (seems everybody wanted Tobago and it changed hands among Brits, French, Ditch, Spanish and Courlanders dozens of times).  Tobago is where the word tobacco is believed to be derived from.
Trade and war were kind of interrelated cocnepts in the early mecanilist days (and still are come to think of it -- cf Bush and Iraq oil).

Unfortunately tucked between Sweden (then a major power), an expanding Russia, and the Lithuanian-Poland Empire (the biggest in Europe in the 16th/17th C), Courland lasted a little over 150 years.
Title: Good read
Post by: Kam on May 14, 2019, 01:07:49 AM
https://sportsday.dallasnews.com/dallas-mavericks/mavericks/2019/05/13/mavericks-trade-kristaps-porzingis-always-risky-now-risks-just-keep-piling (https://sportsday.dallasnews.com/dallas-mavericks/mavericks/2019/05/13/mavericks-trade-kristaps-porzingis-always-risky-now-risks-just-keep-piling)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 14, 2019, 11:42:48 AM
Draft lottery night...

So -

if we get the 2 and PHX the 1.....

assume PHX might be willing to deal with us so that we get Zion - and they can take their PG Ja.

So....

what are we willing to deal to move up?  A future 1?
Title: Let's not talk about it
Post by: Kam on May 14, 2019, 12:06:34 PM
Shhhh.....    how many no hitters have you jinxed?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 14, 2019, 12:08:08 PM
Phuck Phoenix
Phuck Arizona
Phuck Kliff Kingsbury
Phuck Kyler Murray
Phuck dem all
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 14, 2019, 12:42:40 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 14, 2019, 11:42:48 AM
Draft lottery night...

So -

if we get the 2 and PHX the 1.....

assume PHX might be willing to deal with us so that we get Zion - and they can take their PG Ja.

So....

what are we willing to deal to move up?  A future 1?

Don't think it's even worth planning for.

How anti-tank is this lotto? There's less than a 50% chance that any of the worst three teams lands the Zion ticket. We might well be bargaining with the Mavs, Lakers, or Timberwolves.

Let's just see what happens.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 14, 2019, 01:58:43 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 14, 2019, 11:42:48 AM
if we get the 2 and PHX the 1.....
PHX has a 14% chance of getting the #1 pick.  And after that the Knicks would have something similar to get #2.  To get both of those to happen would be around a 2% chance, I believe.
So it's a hypothetical, but the chance of that going down is real low.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 14, 2019, 02:38:50 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 14, 2019, 01:58:43 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 14, 2019, 11:42:48 AM
if we get the 2 and PHX the 1.....
PHX has a 14% chance of getting the #1 pick.  And after that the Knicks would have something similar to get #2.  To get both of those to happen would be around a 2% chance, I believe.
So it's a hypothetical, but the chance of that going down is real low.

Good point Bo.

14% x 14% = 1.96%
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 14, 2019, 02:41:11 PM
What about my math? I don't get compliments? Just cause I smack you around about Turkish Delight?

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 14, 2019, 02:54:42 PM
Turkish Tv won't televise the W Conf Finals.
And won't show the Finals if POR makes it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 14, 2019, 03:25:16 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 14, 2019, 02:38:50 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 14, 2019, 01:58:43 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 14, 2019, 11:42:48 AM
if we get the 2 and PHX the 1.....
PHX has a 14% chance of getting the #1 pick.  And after that the Knicks would have something similar to get #2.  To get both of those to happen would be around a 2% chance, I believe.
So it's a hypothetical, but the chance of that going down is real low.

Good point Bo.

14% x 14% = 1.96%

This isnt accurate

I figured foolks might just answwetr the question, since the forum has been dead.

Do we try to get Zion if PHX is listening for the #1 - or just stay where we are at 2?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 14, 2019, 03:26:18 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 14, 2019, 02:54:42 PM
Turkish Tv won't televise the W Conf Finals.
And won't show the Finals if POR makes it.

Nor should they.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 14, 2019, 03:58:21 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on May 14, 2019, 02:41:11 PM
What about my math? I don't get compliments? Just cause I smack you around about Turkish Delight?

Your Turkish Delight won't play in Toronto if they make it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 14, 2019, 03:59:51 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 14, 2019, 03:25:16 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 14, 2019, 02:38:50 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 14, 2019, 01:58:43 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 14, 2019, 11:42:48 AM
if we get the 2 and PHX the 1.....
PHX has a 14% chance of getting the #1 pick.  And after that the Knicks would have something similar to get #2.  To get both of those to happen would be around a 2% chance, I believe.
So it's a hypothetical, but the chance of that going down is real low.

Good point Bo.

14% x 14% = 1.96%

This isnt accurate

I figured foolks might just answwetr the question, since the forum has been dead.

Do we try to get Zion if PHX is listening for the #1 - or just stay where we are at 2?

We stay.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 14, 2019, 04:24:29 PM
Discussion now on ESPN New York radio

Deal for Antonio after signing a 38 mil and a 32 mil player.

Get THREE top guys while unloading everyone.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on May 14, 2019, 04:30:55 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 14, 2019, 04:24:29 PM
Discussion now on ESPN New York radio

Deal for Antonio after signing a 38 mil and a 32 mil player.

Get THREE top guys while unloading everyone.

No. Not everyone.  AD can be had I think without a wheelbarrow full of players.  Zion, a future first or two [maybe the Dallas picks] and a couple of kids - a PG and Knox - something like that.

Sign KD and a less than max complementary talent - there are plenty to choose from who don't eat salary and who have upside.

Good to go.  Our picks going forward remain intact.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 14, 2019, 04:43:06 PM
Thats not three maxes - but sure - could go that way.

But I think the feeling is it is easier to get KD if another is coming.

Murmurs that he is real close to D Jordan, I understand.  Would this be enough?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Not Elephant on May 14, 2019, 05:24:22 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 13, 2019, 12:51:15 AM
Great game.  Credit Philly.


Kawhi stays

Kyrie leaves

KD leaves

Butler stays

Harris leaves

Kemba stays


- Nice job by much maligned Evan Turner by the way in the earlier contest.

Why do you think Butler stays?

I know Philly has a strong young team, but he clearly hasn't been the same force that he's been in the past. Have you heard he's happy there?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 14, 2019, 05:32:52 PM
I think Butler fits in well with Sixers.

He [played well this past series - and they relied on him plenty.
Title: Toronto
Post by: carlos123 on May 14, 2019, 05:33:16 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 14, 2019, 03:58:21 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on May 14, 2019, 02:41:11 PM
What about my math? I don't get compliments? Just cause I smack you around about Turkish Delight?

Your Turkish Delight won't play in Toronto if they make it.

Doesn’t matter. Toronto won’t be in the finals.

No to the AD trade. If we get Zion it would be crazy to deal him and all the other assets involved. Let the Fakers unload everybody but LeBron, and good luck with that!

I thought you guys were high on Mitchell. And that Jordan was friends with KD. What do we do with them? Just let Fizzy go and concentrate on free agents. And let NO solve their own problems.

MAY 14 ... 14% DAY
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 14, 2019, 05:40:09 PM
Not sure I want to see AD in a Celtics uniform.  But this is the risk we need to take.  I agree - only deal for Davis by using cap space, thus keeping Smith and Knox, Dot and Robinson.  If that is short, so be it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 14, 2019, 05:42:05 PM
Actually the only way I see it happening is WITH Robinson.  THIS I would consider.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 14, 2019, 06:02:13 PM
Interesting -

if Hawks have the #2 pick they will PASS on Morant and Barrett.

per peachtreehoops.com

https://twitter.com/peachtreehoops/status/1128411503609155584
Title: Fuck
Post by: Kam on May 14, 2019, 08:43:59 PM
We lost
Title: 4th
Post by: Kam on May 14, 2019, 08:44:44 PM
Damn
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 14, 2019, 08:46:28 PM
lol gonna be lakers
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 14, 2019, 08:47:57 PM
lol lol kam...
Title: Re: Fuck
Post by: AdeTheOba on May 14, 2019, 08:48:12 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 14, 2019, 08:43:59 PM
We lost
why?
Title: 3rd
Post by: Kam on May 14, 2019, 08:50:46 PM
Damn
Title: New Orleans gets Zion
Post by: Kam on May 14, 2019, 08:51:09 PM
AD goin nowhere,
Title: Welcome to the Knicks RJ
Post by: Kam on May 14, 2019, 08:51:28 PM
Barrett
Title: Re: 4th
Post by: carlos123 on May 14, 2019, 08:52:25 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 14, 2019, 08:44:44 PM
Damn

You jinxed us!

Maybe AD will now decide to stay.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 14, 2019, 08:52:30 PM
I am so f'ing happy it's not the Lakers...
Title: Zion
Post by: Kam on May 14, 2019, 08:52:41 PM
Doesn't look happy,
LeBron must be pissed.
Title: Re: 4th
Post by: Kam on May 14, 2019, 08:53:18 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 14, 2019, 08:52:25 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 14, 2019, 08:44:44 PM
Damn

You jinxed us!

Nope.  We had already lost.  3 teams crept into the top 4. If anything i reverse jinxed us out of the 4th.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 14, 2019, 08:53:39 PM
Actually, I'm really happy.
I had no expectations for us. Tanking made absolutely no sense, and this proves it.
And Grizz and Pelicans were top of my wish list for his destination.
Nice outcome.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 14, 2019, 08:55:01 PM
Many high on Culver - and Hunter.

But yep - Barrett fits.

We have to watch the guy we pass on play for Lakers for years.  Big decision.

I dont think they were serious about dealing Ball but I would surely consider Lonzo plus the 4 if they want to move up.

Celtics nail the 14.  Nice job by Ainge.
Title: New Orleans
Post by: Kam on May 14, 2019, 08:55:08 PM
Was my choice for Zion if the Knicks didn't get him.
Title: What do we go with Frank and Dennis
Post by: Kam on May 14, 2019, 08:56:11 PM
Now that we have RJ
Title: Les
Post by: carlos123 on May 14, 2019, 08:56:18 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on May 14, 2019, 08:53:39 PM
Actually, I'm really happy.
I had no expectations for us. Tanking made absolutely no sense, and this proves it.
And Grizz and Pelicans were top of my wish list for his destination.
Nice outcome.

Baaaad doggie!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 14, 2019, 08:56:26 PM
Why do you think New Orleans wouldnt consider dealing with Lakers for the 4 pick PLUS, team that guy with Zion?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 14, 2019, 09:01:55 PM
Because its a three player draft
Title: Why do that?
Post by: Kam on May 14, 2019, 09:02:43 PM
With Zion you can convince AD to stay.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on May 14, 2019, 09:05:22 PM
Zion looked VERY unhappy and sounded like he didn't know where he'd be.  He already wants out.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on May 14, 2019, 09:07:56 PM
I started laughing/swearing when I saw Lakers jumped into 1-4 land.

Fuck the Lakers


AD probably doesn't want to babysit Zion and waste his prime/wait until Zion grows up.

OK night for the Celts. They did not want the Memphis pick to convey at #9-14 this year.

Its 1-6 protected next year. Unprotected in '21.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 14, 2019, 09:08:50 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on May 14, 2019, 09:05:22 PM
Zion looked VERY unhappy and sounded like he didn't know where he'd be.  He already wants out.

Yep...  sucks for him,  he had  50% chance of NY or LA.   Who would've dealt him to ... New Orleans..

..  lol...
It is your Destiny, Zion.
Title: Re: Why do that?
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 14, 2019, 09:09:05 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 14, 2019, 09:02:43 PM
With Zion you can convince AD to stay.

I doubt it - though Griffin helps
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Merciless on May 14, 2019, 09:09:15 PM
Oh to be a Knicks fan...finally tank and still get fucked.....bunch of suckers
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 14, 2019, 09:10:00 PM
Do we want Conley?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 14, 2019, 09:11:33 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on May 14, 2019, 09:07:56 PM


AD probably doesn't want to babysit Zion and waste his prime/wait until Zion grows up.


I would imagine Adam Silver is calling AD right now to tell him to not pull any funny business.


Silver to AD:  You're starting for New Orleans and playing 30 a night.  If they trade you they trade you.  Now STFU and play.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on May 14, 2019, 09:11:42 PM
And nobody was surprised except people who think Powerball is a viable way to make money
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on May 14, 2019, 09:12:42 PM
Quote from: Merciless on May 14, 2019, 09:09:15 PM
Oh to be a Knicks fan...finally tank and still get fucked.....bunch of suckers

14% is 14%
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Merciless on May 14, 2019, 09:17:53 PM
and for the record...Adam Silver's new draft format sucks. How the Knicks were the only team out of the bottom 6-7 to land a top 3 pick is a fucking farce. No way for bottom feeders to crawl their way out of the barrel...expect changes again.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on May 14, 2019, 09:23:47 PM
Quote from: Merciless on May 14, 2019, 09:17:53 PM
and for the record...Adam Silver's new draft format sucks. How the Knicks were the only team out of the bottom 6-7 to land a top 3 pick is a fucking farce. No way for bottom feeders to crawl their way out of the barrel...expect changes again.

I doubt that will happen anytime soon.

It is meant to get teams to stop tanking. Isn't that good for the NBA?

It tells teams to not rely on the unlikely chance of landing the highest pick or even staying in the top 5 (as you can drop out easily if you aren't the worst team) as a way to get better.

Yes, we will see more Orlando Magic moments where mediocre teams will win the draft. It will be more random and that's better for the league, IMHO.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 14, 2019, 09:28:34 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on May 14, 2019, 09:12:42 PM
Quote from: Merciless on May 14, 2019, 09:09:15 PM
Oh to be a Knicks fan...finally tank and still get fucked.....bunch of suckers

14% is 14%

This is correct.  We actually won.  Only had what - a 40% at top 3?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 14, 2019, 09:40:10 PM
3 & our second rounder for 8 & 10, or take Culver.
Title: Lol, Lol, Turkish Delight vs. Idiot of the Millennium
Post by: lesterluv on May 14, 2019, 10:02:06 PM
Three Times Golden State double teams EK in the post first quarter.
Three Times Turkish Delight makes them pay with the delish assist.....


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 14, 2019, 10:02:34 PM
Hey, did the Knicks end up with the fourth pick?
Title: No and You're welcome
Post by: Kam on May 14, 2019, 10:04:37 PM
Reverse Jinxes are my ting.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Merciless on May 14, 2019, 10:05:14 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on May 14, 2019, 09:23:47 PM
Quote from: Merciless on May 14, 2019, 09:17:53 PM
and for the record...Adam Silver's new draft format sucks. How the Knicks were the only team out of the bottom 6-7 to land a top 3 pick is a fucking farce. No way for bottom feeders to crawl their way out of the barrel...expect changes again.

I doubt that will happen anytime soon.

It is meant to get teams to stop tanking. Isn't that good for the NBA?

It tells teams to not rely on the unlikely chance of landing the highest pick or even staying in the top 5 (as you can drop out easily if you aren't the worst team) as a way to get better.

Yes, we will see more Orlando Magic moments where mediocre teams will win the draft. It will be more random and that's better for the league, IMHO.

understand the thought behind the tanking argument, but 5 other bottom ranked teams did not "tank" and none wound up with a top 4 pick? Not sure how that makes the league better in those markets.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 14, 2019, 10:06:16 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 14, 2019, 09:10:00 PM
Do we want Conley?

Lakers should trade the 4 for Conley

I guess we would look at a deal if we land KD
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 14, 2019, 10:08:35 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 14, 2019, 09:10:00 PM
Do we want Conley?

We always want Conley. Team IQ triples instantly.
Title: Re: Why do that?
Post by: Merciless on May 14, 2019, 10:10:38 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 14, 2019, 09:02:43 PM
With Zion you can convince AD to stay.

Zion's worst nightmare..the last place on earth he thought he would wind up. AD wants out for the opportunity to play with LBJ and/or a bigger market.
Title: Re: No and You're welcome
Post by: lesterluv on May 14, 2019, 10:20:51 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 14, 2019, 10:04:37 PM
Reverse Jinxes are my ting.

Alright, I guess we owe you.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 14, 2019, 10:39:39 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on May 14, 2019, 09:23:47 PM
Quote from: Merciless on May 14, 2019, 09:17:53 PM
and for the record...Adam Silver's new draft format sucks. How the Knicks were the only team out of the bottom 6-7 to land a top 3 pick is a fucking farce. No way for bottom feeders to crawl their way out of the barrel...expect changes again.

I doubt that will happen anytime soon.

It is meant to get teams to stop tanking. Isn't that good for the NBA?

It tells teams to not rely on the unlikely chance of landing the highest pick or even staying in the top 5 (as you can drop out easily if you aren't the worst team) as a way to get better.

Yes, we will see more Orlando Magic moments where mediocre teams will win the draft. It will be more random and that's better for the league, IMHO.

Absolutely. Nobody, with the possible exception of the ever-incredible Knicks, will ever be stupid enough to purposefully tank again.

Good management will be rewarded. Got to stick your picks, whereever they are. Draft well. Trade well. Develop well.

*** so with our braintrust, we are obviously f'd, better sign KD or KL +++ or it's all over forever...


***** if we had hired Budenholzer instead of FukWhale, actually played to develop, grow and win, tried to maximize the value of our vets for trades, we probably would have ended up right about 33 & 49...and have a much better team, and Zion or Jah:)) And the thing is, this is no surprise, any idiot could see what was going on as soon as they announced the new system. Believe the math.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 14, 2019, 10:49:18 PM
And how is Portland still in this game while playing like absolute crap...
Title: Arithmetic
Post by: carlos123 on May 14, 2019, 11:14:42 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 14, 2019, 08:53:18 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 14, 2019, 08:52:25 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 14, 2019, 08:44:44 PM
Damn

You jinxed us!

Nope.  We had already lost.  3 teams crept into the top 4. If anything i reverse jinxed us out of the 4th.

By the way Kam(s)ter, you need to go back to ‘rithmetic school 📈📉
Title: Re: Why do that?
Post by: Kam on May 15, 2019, 01:59:29 AM
Quote from: Merciless on May 14, 2019, 10:10:38 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 14, 2019, 09:02:43 PM
With Zion you can convince AD to stay.

Zion's worst nightmare..the last place on earth he thought he would wind up.

I don't think you're accurate about New Orleans being the last place he thought he would wind up.  Aside from the 6% chance, he was always thought of as trade bait for AD if he would up on the Knicks or the Lakers.

Didn't you post a fantasy trade for AD centered around Zion and Knox?
Title: Re: Arithmetic
Post by: Kam on May 15, 2019, 02:03:36 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 14, 2019, 11:14:42 PM

By the way Kam(s)ter, you need to go back to ‘rithmetic school 📈📉

Lakers (2%) New Orleans (6%)  Knicks (14%)  ... that's over 50% chance he was gonna be a Pelican!
Title: Re: No and You're welcome
Post by: Kam on May 15, 2019, 02:05:03 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on May 14, 2019, 10:20:51 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 14, 2019, 10:04:37 PM
Reverse Jinxes are my ting.

Alright, I guess we owe you.

I do it for the love. 

Of money,


Paypal me
Title: Re: Arithmetic
Post by: Kam on May 15, 2019, 02:05:43 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 14, 2019, 11:14:42 PM
By the way Kam(s)ter, you need to go back to ‘rithmetic school 📈📉

I was Home schooled.  Bad teachers.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 15, 2019, 02:18:49 AM
You have to be happy as a Knicks fan. 

We were most likely to finish 5th.  (47.9% chance of that)

We managed to get a Top 3 pick in a draft where the first tier after Zion are two reasonably identically valued players.

For us the tank worked out decently. 

We only had a 12.7% chance of the #3 pick.  We managed t avoid the most likely scenario (5th)  and because we were the absolute worst team record-wise we didn't drop like Cleveland and Phoenix did.

So once again the anti-tankers are wrong.

14.0   13.4   12.7   11.9   47.9
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 15, 2019, 03:40:16 AM
Knix did well.  Tank worked.
Credit to Fizzybottom.

Even under the old system, there was only a 25% chance of getting the #1 pick.  While the new threat of being the worst team and dropping to 5th (previously 4th) didn't affect us.  Even under the old system, 3rd would be a pretty solid outcome.   There was a 60% chance that we'd draft 4th or 5th. 

So 3rd is damned good.  Evaluate properly and we should have a long term starter/possible all-star/a Jayson Tatum level player.
I'm struggling to see how the Tank didn't work out pretty well for NYK.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 15, 2019, 03:58:38 AM
A lot depends on what we do next.

In the meantime, we get to see the playoffs play out and the prospects jockey.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 15, 2019, 06:49:11 AM
LOL. You guys are even stupider than I thought you were if you think the tank worked.



*** and I thought you were pretty stupid!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 15, 2019, 07:34:36 AM
And the end of tanking is a great thing.

Players hate tanking.

Fans hate tanking.

Non-fraudulent coaches hate tanking.

It is, as Adam Silver says, corrosive.

Kudos to the NBA.

*** for once
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 15, 2019, 10:06:56 AM
If the Knicks won 7 more games, we would have been in the Bulls slot and they would up with the 7th pick.  Would that have been  preferable to anyone -- to win 7 more games and pick 4 slots lower at 7th? 

I think only an idiot would want that, but maybe that's where some are coming from ...

Tanking for the worst record got us the #3 pick.
#3 pick should be a gem.

New Poll
The TANK:
- Worked
- Failed

Look at Pelinka and the Lakes nearly peeing themselves with glee over the #4 pick:
Quote
"This is a powerful asset for us," an ecstatic Pelinka said on a conference call. ...this gives us the ability to either select an impact player at [No.] 4 or possibly use this as an extremely valuable asset in trade.

"I think it's an extraordinary shift for us," Pelinka said. "I mean, top-five picks in the draft, if you go back in the history and study them, those picks can alter and impact franchises. This is a big moment for us."

And all that gushing is for getting to select after us.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 15, 2019, 10:45:20 AM
Quote from: Kam on May 15, 2019, 02:18:49 AM
You have to be happy as a Knicks fan. 

We were most likely to finish 5th.  (47.9% chance of that)

We managed to get a Top 3 pick in a draft where the first tier after Zion are two reasonably identically valued players.

For us the tank worked out decently. 

We only had a 12.7% chance of the #3 pick.  We managed t avoid the most likely scenario (5th)  and because we were the absolute worst team record-wise we didn't drop like Cleveland and Phoenix did.

So once again the anti-tankers are wrong.

14.0   13.4   12.7   11.9   47.9

I don't like tanking, but I think in this instance the tank did happen to work out for the reasons Kam says.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 15, 2019, 10:50:48 AM
If Knicks didn't tank they could have got the 1 or 2.

But even if not...

Winning every game possible would have been beneficial to our players psyche moving forward

I also don't agree that this is a 3 player draft.  I think at 5 thru 8 we get something of value we could use or deal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 15, 2019, 10:59:06 AM
Should be fun when Knicks take this guy at 3

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/rui-hachimura

Likeness to Antawn.  Not too bad.  Though I also think he has some Pippen in him.
Title: Re: Arithmetic
Post by: carlos123 on May 15, 2019, 11:17:48 AM
Quote from: Kam on May 15, 2019, 02:03:36 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 14, 2019, 11:14:42 PM

By the way Kam(s)ter, you need to go back to ‘rithmetic school 📈📉

Lakers (2%) New Orleans (6%)  Knicks (14%)  ... that's over 50% chance he was gonna be a Pelican!

😅😂🤣


Quote from: Kam on May 15, 2019, 02:05:43 AM

I was Home schooled.  Bad teachers.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 15, 2019, 01:31:59 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 15, 2019, 10:50:48 AM
If Knicks didn't tank they could have got the 1 or 2.

But even if not...

Winning every game possible would have been beneficial to our players psyche moving forward

I also don't agree that this is a 3 player draft.  I think at 5 thru 8 we get something of value we could use or deal.

x10
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 15, 2019, 01:34:14 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 15, 2019, 10:06:56 AM


Look at Pelinka and the Lakes nearly peeing themselves with glee over the #4 pick:
Quote
"This is a powerful asset for us," an ecstatic Pelinka said on a conference call. ...this gives us the ability to either select an impact player at [No.] 4 or possibly use this as an extremely valuable asset in trade.

"I think it's an extraordinary shift for us," Pelinka said. "I mean, top-five picks in the draft, if you go back in the history and study them, those picks can alter and impact franchises. This is a big moment for us."

And all that gushing is for getting to select after us.

Nothing bad about a #4 pick (earned by pure luck, not tanking), but all that gushing is what Pelinka has to say, and in any case, Pelinka is simply the latest Laker Ass-Clown in charge.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 15, 2019, 02:54:50 PM
At least they avoided Phil running the team . . .
Title: The TANK worked for us
Post by: Kam on May 15, 2019, 02:55:06 PM
Our tank was strong.

Cleveland and Phoenix had weak tanks and fell out of the top 4.

The lesson here, as with anything you do in life: If you are going to tank, tank all the way.
Title: Last night was rigged
Post by: Kam on May 15, 2019, 03:07:18 PM
Hear me out:

New Orleans fanbase had to deal with the AD drama.  He is still not long for their franchise. But the NBA rewarded them with Zion.

Lakers were about to implode next season and have to face a LeBron trade demand.  Now they have the ammo to trade for a 2nd Star to pair with LBJ.

Knicks tanked and the NBA didn't want to be seen rewarding tanking - BUT NBA needed the Knicks relevant and they had to stay in the Top 3.  They did. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 15, 2019, 03:16:52 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 15, 2019, 10:06:56 AM
New Poll
The TANK:
- Worked
- Failed


Already created a poll

(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Sfs7X1NKDB8/XNxlROVwkRI/AAAAAAAAEos/ThmWm9X_cUQeUWTmkjjI73hCFkdltkuNwCLcBGAs/s640/tankpoll.png)
Title: RJ Highlights
Post by: Kam on May 15, 2019, 03:54:59 PM
Watch this video first and then tell me how the tank failed

https://youtu.be/369GE2FF94s (https://youtu.be/369GE2FF94s)
Title: Guess who TANKING worked great for?
Post by: Kam on May 15, 2019, 04:13:59 PM
The Pelicans TANKED 

23-28  - Prior to AD trade demand

10-21  - After AD trade demand, benching and subsequent minutes limit

The Pels gave up at the end of January.    They tanked.   It worked.
Title: Re: Last night was rigged
Post by: bankshot1 on May 15, 2019, 04:27:12 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 15, 2019, 03:07:18 PM
Hear me out:

New Orleans fanbase had to deal with the AD drama.  He is still not long for their franchise. But the NBA rewarded them with Zion.

Lakers were about to implode next season and have to face a LeBron trade demand.  Now they have the ammo to trade for a 2nd Star to pair with LBJ.

Knicks tanked and the NBA didn't want to be seen rewarding tanking - BUT NBA needed the Knicks relevant and they had to stay in the Top 3.  They did.

Kam

Can you explain to me why the NBA needs the Knicks to be relevant?

I agree that NO tanked post AD trade talks started.

And i agree with the sentiment that tanking sucks and in general that it cuts to the integrity of the game.

its a problem with no easy solution as long as 1 18-YO kid can massively impact the future of a franchise.
 
Title: Re: Last night was rigged
Post by: Kam on May 15, 2019, 04:29:34 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on May 15, 2019, 04:27:12 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 15, 2019, 03:07:18 PM
Hear me out:

New Orleans fanbase had to deal with the AD drama.  He is still not long for their franchise. But the NBA rewarded them with Zion.

Lakers were about to implode next season and have to face a LeBron trade demand.  Now they have the ammo to trade for a 2nd Star to pair with LBJ.

Knicks tanked and the NBA didn't want to be seen rewarding tanking - BUT NBA needed the Knicks relevant and they had to stay in the Top 3.  They did.

Kam

Can you explain to me why the NBA needs the Knicks to be relevant?


If the Knicks are a powerhouse team the next time that Disney/ABC contract is up for renewal the NBA can ask for the moon and the stars.  More prime time games in New York means more $$$.   

If the NBA wants to take down the NFL.... it needs the major cities LA, CHI, PHI, HOU, BOS, BRK, NYK to all be great and have legendary battles.  They should be aiming to take down Monday Night Football and replace it with Monday Night Hoops.


THINK BIG HERE.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 15, 2019, 04:31:15 PM
Tank worked great.  For Kanter.  For Mitch.  For...... KP.  Maybe Dotson and Kornet.
Title: Knicks saved money on the cap not drafting 1st
Post by: Kam on May 15, 2019, 04:36:52 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/KnickFilmSchool/status/1128727211647864833 (https://mobile.twitter.com/KnickFilmSchool/status/1128727211647864833)

Cap situation got better.  Now we do not have to lose Dotson in order to sign 2 Max guys.
Title: Re: Last night was rigged
Post by: bankshot1 on May 15, 2019, 04:45:32 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 15, 2019, 04:29:34 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on May 15, 2019, 04:27:12 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 15, 2019, 03:07:18 PM
Hear me out:

New Orleans fanbase had to deal with the AD drama.  He is still not long for their franchise. But the NBA rewarded them with Zion.

Lakers were about to implode next season and have to face a LeBron trade demand.  Now they have the ammo to trade for a 2nd Star to pair with LBJ.

Knicks tanked and the NBA didn't want to be seen rewarding tanking - BUT NBA needed the Knicks relevant and they had to stay in the Top 3.  They did.

Kam

Can you explain to me why the NBA needs the Knicks to be relevant?


If the Knicks are a powerhouse team the next time that Disney/ABC contract is up for renewal the NBA can ask for the moon and the stars.  More prime time games in New York means more $$$.   

If the NBA wants to take down the NFL.... it needs the major cities LA, CHI, PHI, HOU, BOS, BRK, NYK to all be great and have legendary battles.  They should be aiming to take down Monday Night Football and replace it with Monday Night Hoops.


THINK BIG HERE.
I wasn't aware that attendence or ratings were suffering in NYC.

NBA has generaly flourshised here and globally over the past 20 years while the Knicks were largely irrelevant and the NBA universe was icentered in n cities like Cleveland and San Antonio.

As long as there are several competitive teams the NBA will be fine.

What they can't do is screw with the integrity of the game, as gambling is the next huge revenue source to be tapped.

 
Title: Re: Last night was rigged
Post by: Kam on May 15, 2019, 04:51:41 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on May 15, 2019, 04:45:32 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 15, 2019, 04:29:34 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on May 15, 2019, 04:27:12 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 15, 2019, 03:07:18 PM
Hear me out:

New Orleans fanbase had to deal with the AD drama.  He is still not long for their franchise. But the NBA rewarded them with Zion.

Lakers were about to implode next season and have to face a LeBron trade demand.  Now they have the ammo to trade for a 2nd Star to pair with LBJ.

Knicks tanked and the NBA didn't want to be seen rewarding tanking - BUT NBA needed the Knicks relevant and they had to stay in the Top 3.  They did.

Kam

Can you explain to me why the NBA needs the Knicks to be relevant?


If the Knicks are a powerhouse team the next time that Disney/ABC contract is up for renewal the NBA can ask for the moon and the stars.  More prime time games in New York means more $$$.   

If the NBA wants to take down the NFL.... it needs the major cities LA, CHI, PHI, HOU, BOS, BRK, NYK to all be great and have legendary battles.  They should be aiming to take down Monday Night Football and replace it with Monday Night Hoops.


THINK BIG HERE.
I wasn't aware that attendence or ratings were suffering in NYC.

NBA has generaly flourshised here and globally over the past 20 years while the Knicks were largely irrelevant and the NBA universe was in cities like Cleveland and San Antonio.

As long as there are several competitive teams the NBA will be fine.

What they can't do is screw with the integrity of the game, as gambling is the next huge revenue source to be tapped.

Bro
I said THINK BIG not THINK FINE

NBA doesn't want to be just fine.  It wants to capture the imagination of the casual fan.  The casual fan is having a hard time tuning into San Antonio v Cleveland over say.... American Idol.

Even with the Game 7 drama north of the border, most NBA heads were watching Game of Thrones. 

Its also not about ratings in NYC. If the Knicks are beasts then their games in OTHER markets will be bigger.  Their NATIONAL games will be bigger.  I think they were only on National TV once last year.   If Boston is not good you will still tune in to root for the Knicks to lose.  The NBA wants eyeballs.  Love it or hate it, people will watch New York and root one way or the other.  Nobody cares that strongly about say the Raptors or Portland.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on May 15, 2019, 05:13:58 PM
(https://pictures.abebooks.com/WITTENBORN/5785057968.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 15, 2019, 05:26:30 PM
So you don't think the NBA revival in the early 80s had anything to do with the fact you had Boston and LA facing each other in the finals year after year after year?   Those series had everything.  East vs West. White vs. Black.  But mostly two RABID fanbases with concentration of Superstar talent.

If Adam Silver had a wishlist going into last night, he got all his wishes granted.
Title: Re: Last night was rigged
Post by: bankshot1 on May 15, 2019, 05:27:23 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 15, 2019, 04:51:41 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on May 15, 2019, 04:45:32 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 15, 2019, 04:29:34 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on May 15, 2019, 04:27:12 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 15, 2019, 03:07:18 PM
Hear me out:

New Orleans fanbase had to deal with the AD drama.  He is still not long for their franchise. But the NBA rewarded them with Zion.

Lakers were about to implode next season and have to face a LeBron trade demand.  Now they have the ammo to trade for a 2nd Star to pair with LBJ.

Knicks tanked and the NBA didn't want to be seen rewarding tanking - BUT NBA needed the Knicks relevant and they had to stay in the Top 3.  They did.

Kam

Can you explain to me why the NBA needs the Knicks to be relevant?


If the Knicks are a powerhouse team the next time that Disney/ABC contract is up for renewal the NBA can ask for the moon and the stars.  More prime time games in New York means more $$$.   

If the NBA wants to take down the NFL.... it needs the major cities LA, CHI, PHI, HOU, BOS, BRK, NYK to all be great and have legendary battles.  They should be aiming to take down Monday Night Football and replace it with Monday Night Hoops.


THINK BIG HERE.
I wasn't aware that attendence or ratings were suffering in NYC.

NBA has generaly flourshised here and globally over the past 20 years while the Knicks were largely irrelevant and the NBA universe was in cities like Cleveland and San Antonio.

As long as there are several competitive teams the NBA will be fine.

What they can't do is screw with the integrity of the game, as gambling is the next huge revenue source to be tapped.

Bro
I said THINK BIG not THINK FINE

NBA doesn't want to be just fine.  It wants to capture the imagination of the casual fan.  The casual fan is having a hard time tuning into San Antonio v Cleveland over say.... American Idol.

Even with the Game 7 drama north of the border, most NBA heads were watching Game of Thrones. 

Its also not about ratings in NYC. If the Knicks are beasts then their games in OTHER markets will be bigger.  Their NATIONAL games will be bigger.  I think they were only on National TV once last year.   If Boston is not good you will still tune in to root for the Knicks to lose.  The NBA wants eyeballs.  Love it or hate it, people will watch New York and root one way or the other.  Nobody cares that strongly about say the Raptors or Portland.

The NBA is a star league.

people watch stars.

And they don't seem to care what jersey they have on.

The Knicks have largely been irrelevant competively over much of the past  40 years and NBA popularity has soared relative its competitors.

I think you need the Knicks to be good a lot more than the NBA does.

and Yank got it right.

a picture is worth...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 15, 2019, 05:30:09 PM
It's a star driven league yes. 
That doesn't mean it wants all their stars in the small markets.
For the good of the league.... they want the Bell-Cow markets to succeed.

Its why you expand into New Orleans and don't start your league there.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on May 15, 2019, 05:31:22 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 15, 2019, 05:26:30 PM
So you don't think the NBA revival in the early 80s had anything to do with the fact you had Boston and LA year after year after year?

If Adam Silver had a wishlist going into last night, he got all his wishes granted.

I think that having 2 super teams with a history, packed with great players, playing stupendous basketball, coming off a difficult period (late 70s-coke) and also having a white/black element to it, had a lot to do with ithe NBA revival of the early 80s.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on May 15, 2019, 05:34:31 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 15, 2019, 05:30:09 PM
It's a star driven league yes. 
That doesn't mean it wants all their stars in the small markets.
For the good of the league.... they want the Bell-Cow markets to succeed.

Its why you expand into New Orleans and don't start your league there.

How many strawmen can you erect?

Yes having good teams in several cities is good for competition and for the consumer.

But your argument was the NBA needs the Knicks to be a powerhouse.

They don't.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 15, 2019, 06:26:59 PM
The NBA doesn't need the Knix to be strong.  And they've done quite well with a star-driven more than team-driven model.

But I agree with Kam that if the Knix become highly competitive, that could turbo-charge the NBA.  GS-CLE was a fun rivalry, but a LA-NY rivalry would be magnify the hype and interest greatly. 
If the NBA has LAL, NYK, CHI and BOS all winning and competing, things would go to the next level.

With that said, these conspiracy theories are highly unpersuasive.  The #3 pick isn't changing the Knickers into a contender or luring KD & KI.  Likely a couple players take below #3 will turn out better.  Zion might or might not be such a franchise player.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 15, 2019, 07:09:20 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on May 15, 2019, 05:34:31 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 15, 2019, 05:30:09 PM
It's a star driven league yes. 
That doesn't mean it wants all their stars in the small markets.
For the good of the league.... they want the Bell-Cow markets to succeed.

Its why you expand into New Orleans and don't start your league there.

How many strawmen can you erect?

Yes having good teams in several cities is good for competition and for the consumer.

But your argument was the NBA needs the Knicks to be a powerhouse.

They don't.

Not a strawman. You're thinking about league survival. I'm saying... for the league to be in its best incarnation ESPECIALLY as it relates to how much ABC can charge for AD time.... you want the Knicks vs the Lakers every year.
With Chicago and Houston in the Conference Finals respectively.  So ABC charges more.  So the NBA charges more.  So the avg annual NBA contract rises more. etc.

Adam Silver wants the small markets to SURVIVE. But he wants the BIG markets to THRIVE.  Don't pretend otherwise.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on May 15, 2019, 08:07:20 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 15, 2019, 07:09:20 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on May 15, 2019, 05:34:31 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 15, 2019, 05:30:09 PM
It's a star driven league yes. 
That doesn't mean it wants all their stars in the small markets.
For the good of the league.... they want the Bell-Cow markets to succeed.

Its why you expand into New Orleans and don't start your league there.

How many strawmen can you erect?

Yes having good teams in several cities is good for competition and for the consumer.

But your argument was the NBA needs the Knicks to be a powerhouse.

They don't.

Not a strawman. You're thinking about league survival. I'm saying... for the league to be in its best incarnation ESPECIALLY as it relates to how much ABC can charge for AD time.... you want the Knicks vs the Lakers every year.
With Chicago and Houston in the Conference Finals respectively.  So ABC charges more.  So the NBA charges more.  So the avg annual NBA contract rises more. etc.

Adam Silver wants the small markets to SURVIVE. But he wants the BIG markets to THRIVE.  Don't pretend otherwise.

Again more strawmen.

And you've changed the argument and now changed my argument.

No one said the NBA doesn't want robust big markets.

I specifically said the NBA need strong competition in several markets to attract consumers.

And I disagreed with your opinion that the NBA needs the Knicks to be a powerhouse to continue to grow.

The NBA rate of revenue growth has surged during the time period when, the powers of the league were in Cleveland, San Antonio, Oakland, and not the coastal mega markets of LA and NYC.

[url]http://fortune.com/2018/05/26/nfl-vs-nba-americas-biggest-sport]http://fortune.com/2018/05/26/nfl-vs-nba-americas-biggest-sport][url]http://fortune.com/2018/05/26/nfl-vs-nba-americas-biggest-sport (http://[url=http://fortune.com/2018/05/26/nfl-vs-nba-americas-biggest-sport)[/url]

" Overall revenues might be a better metric, and though that’s still somewhat opaque, it’s where the NFL’s weakness is most obvious. NFL revenue grew an estimated $900 million to $14 billion in 2017, or just short of 7% growth. Forbes, meanwhile, reports the most recent NBA season generated $7.4 billion for teams, up a staggering 25% from the year before.

That suggests the NBA is growing more than three times as fast as the NFL – and that could have startling impacts in just a few years. Using the most basic sort of growth calculation, current trends point to NFL revenues of around $28 billion by 2029 – about in line with a goal of $25 billion by 2027 Commissioner Roger Goodell set a little over a decade ago.

But the same calculations using the most recent growth numbers suggest that by 2029, NBA revenues will be – brace yourself – over $68 billion."

Kam-The NBA appears to be doing fine without Dolan's Dunkers dominating.

As already posted the next revenue bonanza might come from legal wagering or maybe international expansion.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 15, 2019, 11:37:58 PM
We shall see.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 15, 2019, 11:54:35 PM
Celtics will keep not making Finals.  This is good for the league as well.

heh
Title: Bankshot
Post by: carlos123 on May 16, 2019, 12:48:40 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 15, 2019, 11:54:35 PM
Celtics will keep not making Finals.  This is good for the league as well.

heh

You sayin this just to make Bank happy 😊
Title: Re: Bankshot
Post by: bankshot1 on May 16, 2019, 02:00:51 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 16, 2019, 12:48:40 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 15, 2019, 11:54:35 PM
Celtics will keep not making Finals.  This is good for the league as well.

heh

You sayin this just to make Bank happy 😊

Carlos

our mutual firiend says so many childish things at this point I shrug my shoulders.

whaddyagonnado?

Celts not making the Finals this year may be the answer to a trivia question in the making.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 16, 2019, 02:42:19 PM
9th straight year

30th out of 32.

Go, Celts!!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 16, 2019, 03:19:31 PM
TOR let a winnable game slip away.
Down 101-100 at the 2:20 mark.
Thereafter, Kawhi missed a long 3
Lopez knocks down a long 3.  104-100.
Kawhi gets blocked on a slow-motion paint adventure.
Raps waste time by letting Anti-Greek get a rebound over Siakim

Green misses an open wing 3.
Lowry rushes a long 3 off the rebound. 
It was a 4 point game with 1:09 left and 14 on the reset shot clock.  Lowry should have run a play for a better shot.  hate to give him a hard time since he was the Rap doing much in the 4Q.

Under 1 minute, I didn't see anyone touch Bledsoe, but maybe there was something and not just the phantom foul it looked like.
Last chance and Gasol misses a tentative J.
Down 8 with 29 ticks left and I would jack the first available 3.  TOR runs a play that ends with Lowry getting blocked on a feeble 2.

Down the stretch, TOR decided to die with the 3.  Green's shot was open.  Kawhi and Lowry both took long 3's, and Lowry's was rushed.  Blech.  I guess that's the new NBA.  7' Lopez makes his 3, TOR misses three 3's.  Game.

Lopez was the hero.  And made funny faces.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 16, 2019, 03:39:47 PM
Thanks for the recap.  Heard Lopez was fantastic.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 16, 2019, 03:42:34 PM
I would say, if I had critiqued Harden - didn't Kawhi disappear late?  Always have to realize the flow of the game and what the defense is allowing.  Poor game for Giannis relative to his norm but I am sure he had his team's d in order late.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 16, 2019, 03:43:21 PM
And this wouldn't have been untrue had they lost.

Go, NBA!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on May 16, 2019, 03:47:03 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 16, 2019, 02:42:19 PM
9th straight year

30th out of 32.

Go, Celts!!!!

its been awhile since last finals appearance, but generally they've been fun to watch over the past decade.

this year they were a disappointment.

what does the 30th of 32 refer to?

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 16, 2019, 03:48:11 PM
30th year missing Finals.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on May 16, 2019, 04:04:56 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 16, 2019, 03:48:11 PM
30th year missing Finals.

of the past 32, got it.

I guess you take note of different benchmarks than I do.

I would view it as they've made the play-offs 22  of the past 32.

and 11 of the past 12.

But i'm a glass half-full type guy.

But as you said,

GO CELTS.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 16, 2019, 04:29:05 PM
Wouldn't you say Yanks have won just one time in last 18 years?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on May 16, 2019, 04:31:36 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 16, 2019, 04:29:05 PM
Wouldn't you say Tanks have won just one time in last 18 years?

I wouldn't say as I don't know.

And have given it zero thought.

Is Cleveland the tank you are referring to?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 16, 2019, 04:44:52 PM
Kawhi missed a long 3 and then got blocked in the last 2 mins.
Kawhi also was overly methodical in the 2nd half, and often had 3 guys around him when he tried to maneuver.  Looked like tired legs to me.  Ya got 2 or 3 defenders on you there's open guys out there.

Apparently outside of Lowry and Kawhi, Raps only made one other 2nd half FG.  Maybe that explains not passing.

Brogdon had a nice impact.  15 points and a +10.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 16, 2019, 04:48:20 PM
Both G1's were somewhat sloppy affairs with miscues and missed shots.  Mistakes on O & D aplenty.
Made for interesting games.

But let's hope the play picks up, and things get sharper on both ends in both series.

Did someone here say that POR's backcourt = GS backcourt ...?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 16, 2019, 05:11:24 PM
So would BOS have been better off trading Hey Gordy as I had proposed.  Would have sorted out roles better, and not had to work back in a recovering guy who had lots of ups and downs all season.  And now at his salary, you have to wonder how trade-able Haywire is.

The goofy rule that prevented the Kyrie-Celts from adding AD, might have been a league changing/shaping technicality.  Kyrie might be leaving now instead of having a super-friend in BOS.  AD might not go anywhere now that the Promised Land has appeared in NOLA. Etc.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 16, 2019, 07:18:10 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 16, 2019, 04:48:20 PM


Did someone here say that POR's backcourt = GS backcourt ...?

lol, I did, but at least I didn't quote Rob m'fn Pelinka as a basketball authority

**let's see what game 2 brings shall we, blazers looked a bit hungover 4 game 1
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 16, 2019, 09:29:32 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 16, 2019, 04:48:20 PM
Both G1's were somewhat sloppy affairs with miscues and missed shots.  Mistakes on O & D aplenty.
Made for interesting games.

But let's hope the play picks up, and things get sharper on both ends in both series.

Did someone here say that POR's backcourt = GS backcourt ...?

Mccollum averages 23 points over his last 32 playoff games.  40% on threes.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 16, 2019, 10:18:22 PM
looking kinda = 2 me, lol, lol...


***let's axe Pelinka what he thinks...or Freddy Weiss...or Don Rickles...

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on May 16, 2019, 11:11:45 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 16, 2019, 05:11:24 PM
So would BOS have been better off trading Hey Gordy as I had proposed.  Would have sorted out roles better, and not had to work back in a recovering guy who had lots of ups and downs all season.  And now at his salary, you have to wonder how trade-able Haywire is.

The goofy rule that prevented the Kyrie-Celts from adding AD, might have been a league changing/shaping technicality.  Kyrie might be leaving now instead of having a super-friend in BOS.  AD might not go anywhere now that the Promised Land has appeared in NOLA. Etc.

Trading Gordo off the injury/lost year would have been impractical, wouldn't have looked good and probably not have yielded close to par value.

He was Brad's boy, and no way Brad was going to bail on him after he lost the year "(17-18).  And most teams would want to see if he was good Gordo before picking up 3 yrs and a $90+ million comittment. 

He started to get better the last month of the season, but that series against the Bucks he was really tentative.

But even when he sucked, he played smart ball.

I could see him getting moved this year. If KI leaves, and the #1 opens up,  maybe Gordo gets swapped to Memphis for Mike Conley.

Conley is on a similar contract as Gordo (2/66) is 2 years older and is about to become redundant as Memphis is going to draft Ja Morant.

So maybe they take a shot at a former all-star wing bwho might regain his game, as they start their rebuild?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 17, 2019, 02:53:59 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on May 16, 2019, 11:11:45 PM
Trading Gordo off the injury/lost year would have been impractical, wouldn't have looked good and probably not have yielded close to par value.

Addition by subtraction.  As Gordy's comeback year left a trio of BOS yute disgruntled (probably Morris as well).  So the team would have gotten better by not having to baby Haywire back to prominence, and they would have gotten decent value.  I don't think his value went up after that season of okayness.

Quote
He was Brad's boy, and no way Brad was going to bail on him after he lost the year "(17-18).  And most teams would want to see if he was good Gordo before picking up 3 yrs and a $90+ million commitment. 

Wasn't Brad's call.  And sentiment isn't how you win.
If Gordo was jettisoned, it would have made Brad's job easier and more players would have been on board.  The Gordy affair, plus Kyrie's individualism, undermined Brad's message/authority.
Could have been a different season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 17, 2019, 02:59:12 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on May 16, 2019, 10:18:22 PM
looking kinda = 2 me, lol, lol...

And then came the last 5 mins . . .

(I only saw a few minutes of the middle quarters)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 17, 2019, 03:15:06 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 16, 2019, 09:29:32 PM
Mccollum averages 23 points over his last 32 playoff games.  40% on threes.

Klay 19 Pts on 41% on 3's in the 2019 playoffs.
And a much better and more versatile defender than McCollum.

Lillard & McCJ are damn good players, but haven't reached the levels Scurry & Klay have.  And playoff experience is part of that equation.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 17, 2019, 03:28:26 AM
Zach: 5 fouls & 2 apple turnovers in 8 mins!

My Leonard always looks decent to me.
Maybe just needs a little more focus or toughness.
His D seems somewhat suspect.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 17, 2019, 06:14:59 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on May 16, 2019, 04:04:56 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 16, 2019, 03:48:11 PM
30th year missing Finals.

of the past 32, got it.

I guess you take note of different benchmarks than I do.

I would view it as they've made the play-offs 22  of the past 32.

and 11 of the past 12.

But i'm a glass half-full type guy.

But as you said,

GO CELTS.

They're probably the best franchise in the East. Toronto also appears to be a top-to-bottom great franchise too. Nothing to be defensive about.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on May 17, 2019, 08:47:48 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on May 17, 2019, 06:14:59 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on May 16, 2019, 04:04:56 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 16, 2019, 03:48:11 PM
30th year missing Finals.

of the past 32, got it.

I guess you take note of different benchmarks than I do.

I would view it as they've made the play-offs 22  of the past 32.

and 11 of the past 12.

But i'm a glass half-full type guy.

But as you said,

GO CELTS.

They're probably the best franchise in the East. Toronto also appears to be a top-to-bottom great franchise too. Nothing to be defensive about.

Not defensive at all. The Celts were disappointing this year and under performed expectations. And for several reasons. I didn't feel like getting in a peeing contest with kid, who enjoys taunting Celtic short-comings. So I addressed his comments with a a different approach. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 17, 2019, 08:55:17 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 17, 2019, 02:59:12 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on May 16, 2019, 10:18:22 PM
looking kinda = 2 me, lol, lol...

And then came the last 5 mins . . .


yup...sigh


**** but you gotta like these cats, and so much more so than the despicable Houston backcourt. no whining about refs, no call for an NBA investigation, no audit...personally responsibility taken, let's see if they can up it a level back at home.

 "I know it's a tough position for the referees to be in to make a call at that point in the game," said Lillard, who finished with 23 points but didn't score in the final 7 minutes, 42 seconds. "Tried to get a little bit of space the first time. He grabbed my arm, and I lost the ball a little bit. I regained it, and I was going to shoot it again. He got his hand on the ball.

"For me, as the offensive player, I felt like it was contact. There was a lot of contact. But obviously, the ref is not going to decide the game or jump in at that point. You know, so ... good defensive play."

The play put the finishing touches on an ugly display of crunch-time offense by Portland, which led by 15 points at halftime and eight points after backup center Meyers Leonard made a 3 off a Lillard feed with 4:28 remaining.

The Trail Blazers missed eight of their final nine shots, the lone exception a 3 by Seth Curry that put Portland up by a point with 1:03 remaining. CJ McCollum, the star of the Blazers' Game 7 win over the Denver Nuggets in the West semifinals, missed all five of his field goal attempts down the stretch.

"We got some good looks," said McCollum, who had 22 points on 9-of-23 shooting. "I personally had some good looks. I had an open 3 I missed, and I had a floater I missed late. I had a switch with Draymond ; I missed a 3-pointer. I think it's just a make-or-miss league. They played good defense, but I can live with the shots I missed every day of the week."
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on May 17, 2019, 09:12:02 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 17, 2019, 02:53:59 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on May 16, 2019, 11:11:45 PM
Trading Gordo off the injury/lost year would have been impractical, wouldn't have looked good and probably not have yielded close to par value.

Addition by subtraction.  As Gordy's comeback year left a trio of BOS yute disgruntled (probably Morris as well).  So the team would have gotten better by not having to baby Haywire back to prominence, and they would have gotten decent value.  I don't think his value went up after that season of okayness.

Quote
He was Brad's boy, and no way Brad was going to bail on him after he lost the year "(17-18).  And most teams would want to see if he was good Gordo before picking up 3 yrs and a $90+ million commitment. 

Wasn't Brad's call.  And sentiment isn't how you win.
If Gordo was jettisoned, it would have made Brad's job easier and more players would have been on board.  The Gordy affair, plus Kyrie's individualism, undermined Brad's message/authority.
Could have been a different season.

Hindsite may be 20/20 but trading Gordo before he proved he was healthy would likely have been a fool's errand.

What teams would have picked up his 3 years at $95 million AND given up talents (players and/or picks) before knowing he was playing like all-star Godo?

And Ainge understoood that AND that Brad personally recruited Gordo to the Celts and that Brad and Gordo had a deep relationship.

Would Ainge undermine his coach for a reason that Ainge really could not fix?

Maybe loyalty and team building and branding is different in your part of the world, but jettisoning Gordo would not have played well. It wouldn;t have been a good look and there was no upside to sand-bagging the guy. 

And there was no "babying" him. He needed real minutes to prove he could play, and while in general he got better as the year progressed, it was a one step forward-one step back process for him, and a very frustrating year.

And yes Gordo took minutes from other guys who wanted them.

As I posted pre-season Brad's biggest challenge would be finding minutes for a real deep (too deep) team.

I hope his rehab continues and he's better in '19 than he was in '18

And teams now have a benchmark to assess him. And perhaps a team like Memphis with an expensive player they might want to trade, might see Gordo as a fix to their problem of a redundant expensive point-guard.

And lastly the problems the Celts had this year came from several players, not just Gordo.

KI, Rozier and to a lesser extent, Tatum played under expectations.

Ainge and Brad have some tough assessments and decisions to make in the wake of the '18-19 season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 17, 2019, 11:50:05 AM
Not hindsight.
I was proposing Haywire trades well before the trade deadline.
Get a pick and a role player and ditch his salary, and have a happier team.  Ainge probably didn't look into it.  That was probably a mistake.

For some reason Chinese Tv failed to show its standard 10:PM replay.  And when I found an 11:30PM NBA game listed on another sports channel, it turned out to be GSW-HOU G6. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on May 17, 2019, 12:04:41 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 17, 2019, 11:50:05 AM
Not hindsight.
I was proposing Haywire trades well before the trade deadline.
Get a pick and a role player and ditch his salary, and have a happier team.  Ainge probably didn't look into it.  That was probably a mistake.

For some reason Chinese Tv failed to show its standard 10:PM replay.  And when I found an 11:30PM NBA game listed on another sports channel, it turned out to be GSW-HOU G6.

What team would have committed 3/98 and assets for a still recovering and far less than 100% Hayward?

There were no rumors of any interest in the guy after the injury or during his rehab.

Decsion makers wanted to see him play healthy.

And even at the end of this year he was not 100%.

Gordo was a risk not worth taking.

It was a fools errand
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 17, 2019, 12:30:44 PM
After a year off, I think many expected Haywood to be back to his old self by mid-season.  I was pretty surprised he was so up/down inconsistent this year.  And he might have been better on a more functional team, or one that relied on him more.

Every situation is different, but DAL gave NYK two picks and a few players for gimped-up KZ, and are expected to hand out a similar to Gordy 5 year contract.  There's no guarantee when/if KZ will be back to his old form.  PHX, CHI, maybe WAS, MIN might have been interested in Haywire.  Maybe others.  Hey Gordy has talent, smarts, and a good work ethic.

So what do folks think about RJ Barrett.  Seems like not much of a 3-point shot.  Doesn't even shoot FT's well.  But I have no idea what he looks like.  Thoughts on him?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 17, 2019, 12:38:52 PM
So.....

what do we think, Knick fans - Mitch vs Allen

https://twitter.com/NewEraKnicks/status/1129102109826256897
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 17, 2019, 12:41:03 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 17, 2019, 12:30:44 PM
After a year off, I think many expected Haywood to be back to his old self by mid-season.  I was pretty surprised he was so up/down inconsistent this year.  And he might have been better on a more functional team, or one that relied on him more.

Every situation is different, but DAL gave NYK two picks and a few players for gimped-up KZ, and are expected to hand out a similar to Gordy 5 year contract.  There's no guarantee when/if KZ will be back to his old form.  PHX, CHI, maybe WAS, MIN might have been interested in Haywire.  Maybe others.  Hey Gordy has talent, smarts, and a good work ethic.

So what do folks think about RJ Barrett.  Seems like not much of a 3-point shot.  Doesn't even shoot FT's well.  But I have no idea what he looks like.  Thoughts on him?

I dont think Gordie had much trade value mid year.

Re:  Barrett -

he's a scorer.  He WILL score in this league.  Boards quite well - gets out on the break - will be a gteam changer

That said - Knicks said to have had a great visit with Marant.
Title: Celtics
Post by: carlos123 on May 17, 2019, 01:02:52 PM
Mistake was getting Hayward in the first place. They didn’t need him and crowding out other young/promising players was only going to create trouble.

They shoulda gone for none other than my main man ENES KANTER. A front court of him with Al Horford would be terrific.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 17, 2019, 01:08:09 PM
I cant disagree, 'los

I have been on Ainge all along for his overall work (mostly Tatum deal) - but the Gordie Hayward knee sure wasnt his fault - the setback becoming a wall for DA to get over.

As I said - time to see what his work brings now - when it gets real tough.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on May 17, 2019, 01:28:29 PM
Gordo was a 20 ppg 6 rebound all-star wing wiho could shoot, and who played smart in Utah.

And Brad loved and trusted the guy

We never saw Utah-Gordo as a Celt.

And comping the KP trade and a potential Gordo trade is apples and oranges.

KP was making what- $5MM?  Any trade for Gordo would have required ~$31MM in salary matches.

It was too big a risk for damaged goods.

IMO there may be a Gordo trade possibility with Memphis, but it depends on what KI does.


And kid it was Gordo's ankle that got destroyed not his knee.

and help me out here, are you still unsure of Ainge's Tatum + a lottery pick for Fultz trade?

TFF

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 17, 2019, 02:05:57 PM
Yes


Ankle.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 17, 2019, 02:46:07 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 17, 2019, 01:02:52 PM
Mistake was getting Hayward in the first place. They didn’t need him and crowding out other young/promising players was only going to create trouble.

Disagree.  It's just things changed.  They couldn't foretell that Hayward would become Injuryward after 5 mins as a Celt.  While the Jayson/Jalen timeline changed dramatically as well.  It's just once you have those changes, I would have been looking to move Gordy and gone with my studly yute.

Quote from: bankshot1 on May 17, 2019, 01:28:29 PM
KP was making what- $5MM?  Any trade for Gordo would have required ~$31MM in salary matches.
It was too big a risk for damaged goods.

Wes Matthews ending contract of $18M was always available.  Either in a deal with DAL or in a 3-way.
Could always trade with a team under the cap or bring them in to complete a trade.  There are ways.  Not overly hard.

Btw, KZ was $5M going on $31M (his max deal can be 5/$158M)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 17, 2019, 02:58:39 PM
31 million reasons...........
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on May 17, 2019, 03:13:32 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 17, 2019, 02:46:07 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 17, 2019, 01:02:52 PM
Mistake was getting Hayward in the first place. They didn’t need him and crowding out other young/promising players was only going to create trouble.

Disagree.  It's just things changed.  They couldn't foretell that Hayward would become Injuryward after 5 mins as a Celt.  While the Jayson/Jalen timeline changed dramatically as well.  It's just once you have those changes, I would have been looking to move Gordy and gone with my studly yute.

Quote from: bankshot1 on May 17, 2019, 01:28:29 PM
KP was making what- $5MM?  Any trade for Gordo would have required ~$31MM in salary matches.
It was too big a risk for damaged goods.

Wes Matthews ending contract of $18M was always available.  Either in a deal with DAL or in a 3-way.
Could always trade with a team under the cap or bring them in to complete a trade.  There are ways.  Not overly hard.

Btw, KZ was $5M going on $31M (his max deal can be 5/$158M)

Bo you first proposed the Celts trade Gordo as a salary dump and a draft pick.

Nobody was trading anything for for a broken Gordo that was going to cost 3/98 and a lot of uncertainty.

It was a trade that would only take place in a fantasy world far far far removed from reality. 

But I agree nothing's overly hard in a fantasy world.
Title: Finals
Post by: carlos123 on May 17, 2019, 09:10:49 PM
I still think trading for Hayward was a mistake, regardless of his subsequent injury. It woulda been a mistake even if he never gets injured.

Anyway, I think the Bucks beat GS in the finals, just haven't decided if it'll take'em 5, 6 or 7 games.

They won't make the finals, but still... Go Blazers!

(https://thenypost.files.wordpress.com/2018/12/USA_BASKETBALL_NBA-1.jpg?quality=90&strip=all)
                                ANTETOKANTER

(https://thenypost.files.wordpress.com/2019/04/enes-kanter-1.jpg?quality=90&strip=all&w=618&h=410&crop=1)
                                         McKANTER

We love u too, Kam(s)ter
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on May 17, 2019, 10:34:41 PM
Carlos

Gordo was a FA. It wasn't a trade. All he cost was money and the opportunity cost, however that may be defined.

And when they got him, Tatum had never played a pro-game, and Brown was a swing guy. What he gave them was potentially a lot of flexibility in their rotation.

Hopefully he continues his rehab/recovery and gets his game back.


Title: Ok
Post by: carlos123 on May 17, 2019, 10:45:58 PM
Ok Bank, you convinced me 😉
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 17, 2019, 11:00:03 PM
espn3 has draft combine and scrimmages from today
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on May 17, 2019, 11:22:08 PM
I don't feel any better about the Celts crappy performance against the Bucks, (losing 2 at home!) but the Bucks dominance tonight puts a little different spin on it. Monster message game against a very good team.
Title: Bucks
Post by: carlos123 on May 18, 2019, 12:48:08 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on May 17, 2019, 11:22:08 PM
I don't feel any better about the Celts crappy performance against the Bucks, (losing 2 at home!) but the Bucks dominance tonight puts a little different spin on it. Monster message game against a very good team.

Ok, do they beat GS in 5, 6 or 7?

Giannis is SUPERMAN ⛹🏾‍♂️!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 18, 2019, 03:50:16 AM
Hayward was not too different form Paul George.  A former all-star in his prime who suffered a bad leg injury (but not the dreaded Achilles).  After a full year of rehab -- not unlike PG then and KZ now -- teams expected him to round back into form Y2 post-injury.  A returned-to-health Hayward is a high level player most teams would want, including the Celts.  [problem is they didn't really need him anymore and his start-stop on-court recovery negatively affected the team].  A lot of teams need talent and are willing to take a chance on a player at Hayward's level.  I think team bet on talent and pray for health.

A pick, a role player, and an ending salary was doable then and now.  $31M is a lot, but again, it's likely what Mavs are going to pay KZ without him having played a game post-rehab.  [Knix got 2 first rounders, 2 role players (Jr. Smith and DeAndre), took on one ending deal and dumped 2 unwanted contracts (Tim Jr and Courtly)].  Celts probably could have added a role player, got a future asset and improved their cap space.

Unfortunately, Celts got little out of 2 years of Haywire and the ripple effects might have Kyrie bolting.  Oops ....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 18, 2019, 04:00:07 AM
I can see the Conley trade, but then Rozier probably still wants out.  And with aging vets like Conley and Horford, Celts might be setting themselves up to be Horford's ATL or Conley's Griz.  A solid playoff team who doesn't go very far.

Conley - [Rozier]
Jaylen - Smart
Tatum - Ojeleye
Morris - Williams
Horford - Baynes/Theis

Would need to add to the bench.  Those are young F's I have slotted in as backups.  I don't think Yabusele is ready/good.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 18, 2019, 04:16:19 AM
Everytime Raps cut the 2nd half lead down to 13, MIL responded and bumped it back up to 17 or 19.  Good job of staying focused.

TOR had its chance in G1. 
Only positive in G2 was Norman Powell looked like the guy who broke out 2 or 3 years ago.  Energetic and effective.
Fleet VanFred has been terrible these playoffs.  last year he really had his mojo going.  This year he was less confident, less effective.  I'd be ready to replace FVV with JerLin, but i guess that's not the kind of move teams do heading into a crucial G3 home game.  But I think Lin has more to offer at this point.  Including belief in his shot.

Siakim needs to bust out.
Kawhi needs to be less methodical.
Lowry needs to grasp the playoffs.
And get Granny Deen more corner 3's.
Actually I think TOR will get back to form and play their game in TOR.  Don't forget how they looked in G1 in MIL.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 18, 2019, 05:24:28 AM
Brook, Ilya, Mirotic, and le Freak make a long, strong and skilled frontcourt. Everyone is deadly from every spot. Nobody has to pound the ball. I feel like GS is going to be undermanned in their quest to defend their crown.

I’m warming up to Barret. I’m also wondering about the best way to get another pick somewhere in the twenties.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 18, 2019, 07:49:24 AM
Ilya and Mirotic can be overpowered and disappear.
Also foul prone.  I'd have Siakim and Ibaka go out them.  Also Kawhi on switches.  MIL's size is swallowing up Kawhi on his slow motion drives deep into the paint.  But with 3 guys around him, shooters are open.

The Frog is a nice stabilizer for MIL and means that Hill doesn't have to do too much, and can have bad games.  Wish OG was playing for TOR.  Injuries suck, and an appendectomy just before the playoffs is a real fluke.

Basically, Lowry should outplay Bledsoe
Middleton > Siakim.  Pascal needs to try to match him
Brogdon > Green
Gasol = Lopez (if Gasol plays as capable)
Anti-Greek > Kawhi (but close)

Lowry and VFF need to run the team better.
Kawhi needs to make passes when surrounded.
And Raps need to unwrap their D.  They've got a lot of good defenders, who need to cohere.  Get steal, get stops, get out on the break.

Ibaka needs to be the best reserve.  He's better than Ilya.
VFF needs to at least equal Hill.
I didn't account for Mirotic, I guess that's where OG would come in.  Maybe a Powell revival can have him match Connaught.

Is Brogdon the untold hero of this series?
Title: Re: Bucks
Post by: bankshot1 on May 18, 2019, 10:13:50 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 18, 2019, 12:48:08 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on May 17, 2019, 11:22:08 PM
I don't feel any better about the Celts crappy performance against the Bucks, (losing 2 at home!) but the Bucks dominance tonight puts a little different spin on it. Monster message game against a very good team.

Ok, do they beat GS in 5, 6 or 7?

Giannis is SUPERMAN ⛹🏾‍♂️!!!

if KD plays I think the Warriors win in a 6 game series, if he's out or playing hurt, I think the Bucks can steal it in a long series, 6 or 7 games.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on May 18, 2019, 12:39:44 PM
KP and Hayward are really bad comps on so many bases, from money (5 v 31, but really closer to $100 million for Gordo), to the nature and severity of the injuries (ACL v broken bones, KP was expected to be playing by mid-year, Gordo was expected to miss a whole year), to perceived value (no one called Gordo a basketball unicorn-KP was seen as a unique player), to attitudes (KP demanded the trade out of NYC) .

Just a terrible comp to try and find a rational for a trade that was never going to happen.

Not a peep of a rumor at any point that teams were approaching the Celts about Gordo's availability before he returned.

No one was going to take a $100 million cap killer on an injured player without seeing him play.

I vaguely remebering posting (I think it was here) that Gordo looked slow and tentative in the pres-season games I watched.

And i wasn't on the hook for $100 million.

But Bo knows, Gordo would have been easy to trade.

TFF.

Today is different, there may be a market for him on the assumption he gets better and might need a fresh start elsewhere. Like Memphis.

if I were to blame Ainge for any one decision this year, it might be not trading Rozier by the trade deadline, who by most reports was a major pain in the ass. While I appreciate the KI insurance he provided, his me-me-me attitude as he approached his RFA year, and out of control level of play this year was destructive.

He's gone.
Title: Re: Bucks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 18, 2019, 02:55:49 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on May 18, 2019, 10:13:50 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 18, 2019, 12:48:08 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on May 17, 2019, 11:22:08 PM
I don't feel any better about the Celts crappy performance against the Bucks, (losing 2 at home!) but the Bucks dominance tonight puts a little different spin on it. Monster message game against a very good team.

Ok, do they beat GS in 5, 6 or 7?

Giannis is SUPERMAN ⛹🏾‍♂️!!!

if KD plays I think the Warriors win in a 6 game series, if he's out or playing hurt, I think the Bucks can steal it in a long series, 6 or 7 games.

Hedggge

Heh
Title: Re: Bucks
Post by: bankshot1 on May 18, 2019, 03:29:58 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 18, 2019, 02:55:49 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on May 18, 2019, 10:13:50 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 18, 2019, 12:48:08 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on May 17, 2019, 11:22:08 PM
I don't feel any better about the Celts crappy performance against the Bucks, (losing 2 at home!) but the Bucks dominance tonight puts a little different spin on it. Monster message game against a very good team.

Ok, do they beat GS in 5, 6 or 7?

Giannis is SUPERMAN ⛹🏾‍♂️!!!

if KD plays I think the Warriors win in a 6 game series, if he's out or playing hurt, I think the Bucks can steal it in a long series, 6 or 7 games.

Hedggge

Heh

were you aware KD is out, and will be out at least 2 more games?

And that the absence of one of the best players in the world may impact a possible final series outcome?

kid-do you practice clueless, or does it come naturally to you?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 18, 2019, 03:57:34 PM
Everybody is tradeable.

And I don't see much difference between Haywire now and prior to the trade deadline. 

Jan/Feb he started to play fairly well, after a rough first two months.  He was more consistent in Mar, then some shaky playoffs -- a good 1st round, followed by cratering v. MIL.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 18, 2019, 04:05:56 PM
Almost forgot some NBA Trivia:

The Scurry Bros combined for 53 points the other game.  2nd most ever for a pair of brothers in a playoff game.  Which brother-combo holds the record for most points in a single playoff game?

Bonus: Which pair of brothers hold 3rd place now?

(and yes, both brothers had to have been in the same playoff game and played)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 18, 2019, 04:49:28 PM
The only team that would have traded for Gordo and $100 mill worth of ass-basketball without a Tatum-like sweetener would have been the Knicks, and fortunately management seems to have changed its policies recently.

GM's more likely to think Chandler Parsons not K Porzingis when looking at that...
Title: Naturally
Post by: carlos123 on May 18, 2019, 04:52:06 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on May 18, 2019, 03:29:58 PM

kid-do you practice clueless, or does it come naturally to you?

That a trick question or what? 😅😂🤣
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on May 18, 2019, 04:55:31 PM
saw this today in The Ringer

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/5/17/18629224/mike-conley-trade-market-memphis-grizzlies-ja-morant-nba-draft (https://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/5/17/18629224/mike-conley-trade-market-memphis-grizzlies-ja-morant-nba-draft)


"The Grizzlies are reportedly zeroing in on Ja Morant as the point guard of the future. So what happens to the best point guard in franchise history? We look at some of the teams that probably will inquire about Conley and nominate a few that probably should."

According to the writer, the Lakers, Knicks and Celts are among the favorites, and here is an excerpt from the Celts write-up.


Boston Celtics: If Irving leaves and Terry Rozier gets rewarded by another team for his brave sacrifice, the Celtics will suddenly be in desperate need of ball handlers....

Other than stuffing Memphis’s pockets with draft picks, the only reasonable option would be Gordon Hayward.


"Hayward’s contract goes for as long as Conley’s, at only a negligible markup, meaning you could simply swap one team’s problem for another’s. The big unknown is obviously Hayward’s health; he played in 72 games, with an average of 26 minutes a night, but his shot looked flat most of the time, he played timid, and his physique looked too swole to move fluidly. But it’s not like Conley hasn’t spent his share of time in the training room—he played only 11 more games than Hayward in 2017-18 because of a left heel injury—and Hayward has three fewer seasons and 7,600 fewer minutes on his surgically repaired lower extremity. It’d be selling low on Hayward, a player once as important to Boston’s master plan as Irving, but it may be better for both parties to start fresh, especially if Brad Stevens wants to rid himself of any suggestions that he’s still playing favorites.


Sounds familiar.

heh

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 18, 2019, 05:01:43 PM
It was more of a Paul George freak broken bone type injury.
Parsons had multiple knee surgeries -- like a McDyess -- and never was as good as Hayward anyway.

Quote
After Marc Gasol struggled in Game 2, scoring two points on 1-for-9 shooting in 19 minutes, Nurse was asked about the possibility of making a lineup change. He said that, in fact, he could make multiple -- perhaps a sign that, in addition to replacing Gasol with Serge Ibaka, he's considering benching Danny Green, who struggled for a third straight game, in favor of Norman Powell, who scored 14 points on 6-for-9 shooting in Game 2.

I had mentioned going with Lin over FVV.
Thought about Ibaka over Gasol.  Ma Gasol looked like he had varicose veins out there.  One play a lose ball dropped near him, and by the time he registered that and creakily moved towards it, a Buck snatched it.  Another play, Ma Gas twice passed up an open perimeter shot, having lost confidence in ball going through hoop.  But it's not like Ibaka is Mr. Reliable, but maybe starting would light a fire under him.  'Baka was active in G2 and certainly looked better than Gasol.

A Green-Powell swap seems like an overreaction off one good game for Norm.  You could always just have a short hook for Granny Deen if he plays tentatively.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 18, 2019, 05:09:13 PM
Quote
Lillard's inability to produce anything near the basket is particularly disappointing. Consider these two stats:

In the regular season, Lillard averaged over 11 points per game on 2-pointers. In the first two games of this series, he has scored just six total points on 2s.

Lillard averaged 6.5 shots per game within 8 feet of the basket in the regular season. In this series, he has tried just three total in that zone.

Be interesting to see if Lillard tries to attack the rim, sticks with 3's at Home, runs PnR's or eschews them for one-on-one drives.
Lotta pressure on Dame.  Of course, it's a team game, and POR a good home team.  Should be a good game.

Both POR & TOR down 0-2 heading home, but certainly feels more demoralizing for TOR.  Though POR facing the more experienced foe.  Both POR & TOR familiar with playoff failure . . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 18, 2019, 06:16:54 PM
So...

What happens to your respective prognoses should POR win handily tonight?
Title: Re: Bucks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 18, 2019, 06:19:50 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on May 18, 2019, 03:29:58 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 18, 2019, 02:55:49 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on May 18, 2019, 10:13:50 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 18, 2019, 12:48:08 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on May 17, 2019, 11:22:08 PM
I don't feel any better about the Celts crappy performance against the Bucks, (losing 2 at home!) but the Bucks dominance tonight puts a little different spin on it. Monster message game against a very good team.

Ok, do they beat GS in 5, 6 or 7?

Giannis is SUPERMAN ⛹🏾‍♂️!!!

if KD plays I think the Warriors win in a 6 game series, if he's out or playing hurt, I think the Bucks can steal it in a long series, 6 or 7 games.

Hedggge

Heh

were you aware KD is out, and will be out at least 2 more games?



Yes

You are a serial hedger.
Title: Re: Bucks
Post by: bankshot1 on May 18, 2019, 07:05:25 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 18, 2019, 06:19:50 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on May 18, 2019, 03:29:58 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 18, 2019, 02:55:49 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on May 18, 2019, 10:13:50 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 18, 2019, 12:48:08 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on May 17, 2019, 11:22:08 PM
I don't feel any better about the Celts crappy performance against the Bucks, (losing 2 at home!) but the Bucks dominance tonight puts a little different spin on it. Monster message game against a very good team.

Ok, do they beat GS in 5, 6 or 7?

Giannis is SUPERMAN ⛹🏾‍♂️!!!

if KD plays I think the Warriors win in a 6 game series, if he's out or playing hurt, I think the Bucks can steal it in a long series, 6 or 7 games.

Hedggge

Heh

were you aware KD is out, and will be out at least 2 more games?



Yes

You are a serial hedger.

I hedge when I see the advantage to doing so.

Carlos asked me a question, and I gave him answers dependent upon the largest variable that I saw and how that varible could impact the series.

if you do not understand that KD playing/not playing could materially impact the outcome, I don't know what to say, other than I'm not terribly surprised.

Both teams full-strength, I like GS.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 18, 2019, 07:43:41 PM
 :Attaboy...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 18, 2019, 10:19:37 PM
MEYERS LEONARD!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 18, 2019, 10:23:47 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 18, 2019, 06:16:54 PM
So...

What happens to your respective prognoses should POR win handily tonight?



wellll?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 18, 2019, 11:11:09 PM
I expected both Home teams to win G3.
GSW hasn't had the killer instinct this year.
And their bench is iffyville.

With that said, right now, GSW is up 3 after a huge 3Q, and essentially POR's season comes down to One Quarter.
Interesting.

Green Day having a huge game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 18, 2019, 11:40:49 PM
Judging from this game, GS should hope Durant doesn't come back. Wow...that's the fire they used to have...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 19, 2019, 12:04:31 AM
Missed the 1Q and saw patches until the last 1/3.
Both teams shuffled their starting lineups.  Though Dame Jones lasted just 3 mins, in a foul a minute outing.

Anything happen to Iggy or was McKindredspirit just more effective?  McK had 9 boards in 21 mins, and hit a big late 3 which was exactly an Iggy shot.  Finished with a whopping +24.
Usually Iggy is a pretty key catalyst, and a low stats +/- darling.

POR scored 37 in the 2Q and 33 in the 2nd Half.
So Meyers Leonard started.  Guess they couldn't play Kanter .. .
I always like My Leonerd, but his defense kind of sucks.  Always seems to be half a step slow.  He did have one play under 2 mins where he really stayed on Scurry at the 3-point line.  That was good.  He's the kind of guy I wouldn't mind picking up on the cheap once his $11M contract finishes up.

Lillard 5-18, 5 turnovers, got smothered all night.
-23 in 40 mins.  Which means POR outscored GSW by 12 in the 8 mins Lily sat.  Not a good enough team to W without their best player coming through.  Search that soul, young man.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 19, 2019, 03:52:45 AM
Ja needs to take Dame and Scurry out to dinner as soon as he signs his rookie deal. Hat tip to Steve Nash. Ja can buy him dinner as well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 19, 2019, 04:31:14 AM
I was doing stuff while watching the 2Q & 3Q.
But seemed like the refs were calling things really tight.
Little bumps were being called.

POR missed 13 FT's.
One thing bugging me all through these playoffs has been teams missing FT's when down in the 2nd half.  McC had a 1 of 3 trip.  Unacceptable.
[even when GSW was down, Klay missed a FT as they were trying to close the gap]  Edit: Was Scurry after a made 3.

My other all season complaint is time management
Down 9 and 45 secs left.  They let GSW inbounds easily, let Scurry dribble cross midcourt unmolested.  Why concede?  Even a straight 24 violation, = down 9 21 secs left.  Done.  Pressure the inbounds.  Go for a steal.  Trap.  Try to get a steal or backcourt violation.  Play to Win.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 19, 2019, 10:39:41 AM
Portland shoots 40% at home

Nuff said.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 19, 2019, 10:39:55 AM
Well we agree on that.
Reggie Miller, 8 points 9 seconds.
The best way to prepare for high pressure time management comeback situations is to go full out every time until it's over.
That's why Pops was so disgusted with his team's Game 7 last 28 second/4 point down fiasco.
It's just another basketball situation. You plan for it. You prep for it.
Giving up does not sit well.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on May 19, 2019, 10:43:14 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on May 18, 2019, 11:40:49 PM
Judging from this game, GS should hope Durant doesn't come back. Wow...that's the fire they used to have...

Bingo.

Unless Walton-Lucas-Hollins and Twardzik are ready for G4, series ended last night.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 19, 2019, 10:54:01 AM
So long ago, it's easy to forget just how great that team was, predecessor to the 80s Celtics teams and these Warriors in terms of team play, ball movement, off ball movement.

Absolutely fun to watch this: https://youtu.be/7vTGoG53bF4 (https://youtu.be/7vTGoG53bF4)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on May 19, 2019, 11:40:44 AM
Yup. Walton's briitle bones probably kept Portland from winning more championships, but that '77 championship team played beautiful basketball.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 19, 2019, 01:47:05 PM
Bill should never have signed with the Clippers.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 19, 2019, 07:23:23 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on May 16, 2019, 10:18:22 PM
looking kinda = 2 me, lol, lol...


As usual you don't know what you're talking about.
Title: Re: Bucks
Post by: Kam on May 19, 2019, 08:18:10 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on May 18, 2019, 10:13:50 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 18, 2019, 12:48:08 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on May 17, 2019, 11:22:08 PM
I don't feel any better about the Celts crappy performance against the Bucks, (losing 2 at home!) but the Bucks dominance tonight puts a little different spin on it. Monster message game against a very good team.

Ok, do they beat GS in 5, 6 or 7?

Giannis is SUPERMAN ⛹🏾‍♂️!!!

if KD plays I think the Warriors win in a 6 game series, if he's out or playing hurt, I think the Bucks can steal it in a long series, 6 or 7 games.

I don't think the Warriors are better deferring to KD rather than riding Steph and Klay.   They won 73 games without him.  ANd they haven't lost since he went out.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 19, 2019, 08:21:40 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 18, 2019, 04:05:56 PM
Almost forgot some NBA Trivia:

The Scurry Bros combined for 53 points the other game.  2nd most ever for a pair of brothers in a playoff game.  Which brother-combo holds the record for most points in a single playoff game?

Bonus: Which pair of brothers hold 3rd place now?

(and yes, both brothers had to have been in the same playoff game and played)

Barry Brothers
King Brothers
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 19, 2019, 08:33:16 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on May 19, 2019, 03:52:45 AM
Ja needs to take Dame and Scurry out to dinner as soon as he signs his rookie deal. Hat tip to Steve Nash. Ja can buy him dinner as well.

Nash is RJ Barrett's godfather
Title: Re: Knicks coaching staff
Post by: carlos123 on May 19, 2019, 09:38:24 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 19, 2019, 08:33:16 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on May 19, 2019, 03:52:45 AM
Ja needs to take Dame and Scurry out to dinner as soon as he signs his rookie deal. Hat tip to Steve Nash. Ja can buy him dinner as well.

Nash is RJ Barrett's godfather

Can the Knicks fire Fizzy and hire Nash?

Budenholzer is not going to be available after winning the finals with Milwaukee.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 19, 2019, 10:45:15 PM
I think Nash has a place in the city. No reason not to see if he wants to work with the organization. I think he still has a place in the City, downtown somewhere. He used to play football (global, not American) in the Lower East Side.

Ja should take RJ’s godfather to dinner because his non-power school prodigious PG performance translated up to the NBA, as did Dame’s and Steph’s and CJ’s. Have to add CJ to the list.

Speaking of Canadians Toronto found its fight at home. It’s almost a series again.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 19, 2019, 10:59:20 PM
Gasol is a fucking horror
Title: Re: ???
Post by: carlos123 on May 20, 2019, 12:23:33 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 19, 2019, 10:59:20 PM
Gasol is a fucking horror

45 min. 5-10 FG. 4-8 3PT. 12 REB. 7 AST. 5 BLK. +5. 16 PTS.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 20, 2019, 02:44:20 AM
Quote from: Kam on May 19, 2019, 08:21:40 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 18, 2019, 04:05:56 PM
Almost forgot some NBA Trivia:

The Scurry Bros combined for 53 points the other game.  2nd most ever for a pair of brothers in a playoff game.  Which brother-combo holds the record for most points in a single playoff game?

Bonus: Which pair of brothers hold 3rd place now?

(and yes, both brothers had to have been in the same playoff game and played)

Barry Brothers
King Brothers

57 for the Kings.
Bernard scored 40 (on 16-21 FG; 8-9 FT's) and Albert 17 on April 20, 1983.  Pretty damn efficient.
Here's the box score: https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/198304200NJN.html
Rory Sparrow scored 22.
All 5 Net starters in double figures.
Sly Williams made NYK's only 3 Pt attempt.
Nets went 1-5 on 3's, with Albert making his only attempt.

3rd place brother-playoff tandem . . .
George & Ed Mikan!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 20, 2019, 03:08:54 AM
Since it is a growing rumor that the FO is seeing if there is interest in Frank for a pick, what team would you target, what pick would you ask, and who would you hope to select with the pick?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 20, 2019, 08:15:44 AM
Full court press on KD/Kawhi -

then quickly shift to Kemba.

can't be left with nothing.

I would be willing to draft Barrett, add Kemba and deal for A Davis using the rest of the cap space.

Do not get greedy.  If AD was a FA we would be fine with adding him as one of the 2 big acquisitions.  Why do we need him plus 2 others?

Kemba
Barrett
Knox
(power forward)
Davis

Sign me up.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 20, 2019, 09:38:27 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on May 19, 2019, 03:52:45 AM
Ja needs to take Dame and Scurry out to dinner as soon as he signs his rookie deal. Hat tip to Steve Nash. Ja can buy him dinner as well.

Different type of player.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 20, 2019, 09:41:22 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on May 20, 2019, 03:08:54 AM
Since it is a growing rumor that the FO is seeing if there is interest in Frank for a pick, what team would you target, what pick would you ask, and who would you hope to select with the pick?

The fact that they are targetting something like Phoenix' 32nd pick overall is pretty depressing.

Unless we're desperate for the cap space, this feels like a mistake to me. Frank's game will look better next to high usage guys who play smartly.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 20, 2019, 09:52:07 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 20, 2019, 08:15:44 AM
Full court press on KD/Kawhi -

then quickly shift to Kemba.

can't be left with nothing.

I would be willing to draft Barrett, add Kemba and deal for A Davis using the rest of the cap space.

Do not get greedy.  If AD was a FA we would be fine with adding him as one of the 2 big acquisitions.  Why do we need him plus 2 others?

Kemba
Barrett
Knox
(power forward)
Davis

Sign me up.

Doubtful we can get Davis without giving up the 3rd pick, and pretty much impossible if Boston is actually in on the bidding.

I think Kyrie has to leave Boston, and the Pelicans have to feel unsure about Ingram's health for the Knicks to have any sort of leverage in a trade. Even then, DSJ + Frank + Mitch + Dot + IsoZo + three first rounders might not be enough.

All that said, Mirotic would be a PF that fits in capwise
Title: very divisive mikey
Post by: lesterluv on May 20, 2019, 12:10:24 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 20, 2019, 08:15:44 AM
Full court press on KD/Kawhi -


And let's hope it's Kawhi. KD's head is 100% NOT New York ready. Losing his sh%*^% on Instagram after win when Warriors fan praises his teammates. Too funny.

https://twitter.com/PrimeNickKerr/status/1130292368383434752 (https://twitter.com/PrimeNickKerr/status/1130292368383434752)


***fuck wrong wit u talking about curry, klay & dray , lol, lol, lol

***Dray's game was really a thing of wonder, might have focused on that instead, ya think?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 20, 2019, 01:06:59 PM
TOR let MIL hang around all game.
When Anti-Giannis was playing terrible.
Raps just never could get that secondary run to up the lead to double digits, instead just maintaining a 5 or 6 point lead.

The Frog was again brilliant for MIL.
Captain Vleetheart was terrible for TOR.
Why not give Lin some run?  FVV has lost confidence.  1-11 and foul prone.  Looks awful.

Don't get any Ma Gasol criticism.  This was his first good game.  He was closing out on 3-point shots, moved the ball, set solid screens, tried not to shoot much (his 3's keep rimming out).  He made a couple bad plays (inc. a ridiculous kick out), and could be in better shape.  But had 5 blocks and played a solid game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 20, 2019, 01:07:57 PM
Earlier thoughts:

When GSW was busy gooning Zach Collins, I wondered if Pippen had flashbacks to his early playoff days v. DET ...

Ibaka tends to lollygag back on D.  Gets burned on it now and then.  His focus seems to come and go.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 20, 2019, 01:15:54 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on May 20, 2019, 09:41:22 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on May 20, 2019, 03:08:54 AM
Since it is a growing rumor that the FO is seeing if there is interest in Frank for a pick, what team would you target, what pick would you ask, and who would you hope to select with the pick?

The fact that they are targetting something like Phoenix' 32nd pick overall is pretty depressing.

Unless we're desperate for the cap space, this feels like a mistake to me. Frank's game will look better next to high usage guys who play smartly.

Sad loyalty.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 20, 2019, 01:16:55 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 20, 2019, 01:07:57 PM
Earlier thoughts:

When GSW was busy gooning Zach Collins, I wondered if Pippen had flashbacks to his early playoff days v. DET ...

Ibaka tends to lollygag back on D.  Gets burned on it now and then.  His focus seems to come and go.

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 20, 2019, 01:18:29 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on May 20, 2019, 09:52:07 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 20, 2019, 08:15:44 AM
Full court press on KD/Kawhi -

then quickly shift to Kemba.

can't be left with nothing.

I would be willing to draft Barrett, add Kemba and deal for A Davis using the rest of the cap space.

Do not get greedy.  If AD was a FA we would be fine with adding him as one of the 2 big acquisitions.  Why do we need him plus 2 others?

Kemba
Barrett
Knox
(power forward)
Davis

Sign me up.

Doubtful we can get Davis without giving up the 3rd pick, and pretty much impossible if Boston is actually in on the bidding.



We are giving them Robinson
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 20, 2019, 01:20:27 PM
Re:  Boston and` AD - if I am Pels I am at least considering HAYWARD plus the young jewels/picks BOS can offer.

This is likely what Boston will be looking to do.
Title: Re: very divisive mikey
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 20, 2019, 01:36:25 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on May 20, 2019, 12:10:24 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 20, 2019, 08:15:44 AM
Full court press on KD/Kawhi -


And let's hope it's Kawhi. KD's head is 100% NOT New York ready. Losing his sh%*^% on Instagram after win when Warriors fan praises his teammates. Too funny.

https://twitter.com/PrimeNickKerr/status/1130292368383434752 (https://twitter.com/PrimeNickKerr/status/1130292368383434752)


***fuck wrong wit u talking about curry, klay & dray , lol, lol, lol

***Dray's game was really a thing of wonder, might have focused on that instead, ya think?

No idea what this is
Title: Re: very divisive mikey
Post by: lesterluv on May 20, 2019, 01:43:43 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 20, 2019, 01:36:25 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on May 20, 2019, 12:10:24 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 20, 2019, 08:15:44 AM
Full court press on KD/Kawhi -


And let's hope it's Kawhi. KD's head is 100% NOT New York ready. Losing his sh%*^% on Instagram after win when Warriors fan praises his teammates. Too funny.

https://twitter.com/PrimeNickKerr/status/1130292368383434752 (https://twitter.com/PrimeNickKerr/status/1130292368383434752)


***fuck wrong wit u talking about curry, klay & dray , lol, lol, lol

***Dray's game was really a thing of wonder, might have focused on that instead, ya think?

No idea what this is

Well let me explain.

After game three's inspiring GS win, KD is scouring the internet for mentions of himself. His instagram handle is easymoneysniper.

He finds a random comment on the game from a warrior fan, who, in not anyway derisive of KD and definitely NOT saying something like, "we're better without KD," celebrates the accomplishments of Curry, Klay, and Dray in the win — Don't doubt us even without KD sez the fan.

KD, rather than saying something like "Yup, I can count on my boys" or praising Dray or Curry's incredible performances takes it on himself to chastize that fan, saying "very divisive" and what the "fuk is wrong with you."

KD is so insecure, so thin skinned, so sensitive, he won't last 10 minutes in this town. Will crack like an easter egg.

Anything else you don't understand just ask me to explain!


*** and watch that language KD, not safe for kids!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 20, 2019, 02:01:22 PM
How the fuck could I understand it - it wasn't what you posted.

Thanks for being more clear the second time

If you dont want Durant here, God bless you.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 20, 2019, 02:24:45 PM
I'd be a fool not to want the game's most skilled offensive player in a Knick uni.

But we're still fantasy shopping so I'm just laying out my preferences.

leadership, a good nut up top, would have to come from elsewhere

and seemingly, makes a Kyrie / KD pairing — offensively sublime and supposedly the most likely outcome — fatally flawed, c'mon Kemba


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 20, 2019, 02:26:45 PM
It aint like Durant is gonna have the same chemistry issues here Les.  He would be the unquestioned ALPHA.  Nobody would post anything about the Knicks winning without KD because without him we are a .200 team.


But i agree with you. KD is too thin skinned and would need Knicks fans and media to worship him.... which isn't unlikely.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 20, 2019, 02:28:00 PM
somebody who goes "chase down block" on a little internet warrior fan after an absolutely inspiring team win is ALWAYS GOING TO HAVE ISSUES

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 20, 2019, 02:31:35 PM
no doubt, he'd get worshipped...for awhile, and then.....


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 20, 2019, 02:32:55 PM
He will have issues. Undoubtedly. But who are the Knicks to harp on the issues of someone of KD's talent? We can't thumb our nose at KD for that.  If you're gonna Dance with the Devil you better like the fiddle.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 20, 2019, 02:35:13 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on May 20, 2019, 02:24:45 PM
I'd be a fool not to want the game's most skilled offensive player in a Knick uni.

But we're still fantasy shopping so I'm just laying out my preferences.

leadership, a good nut up top, would have to come from elsewhere

and seemingly, makes a Kyrie / KD pairing — offensively sublime and supposedly the most likely outcome — fatally flawed, c'mon Kemba

This is bullshit.  You dont want him here.  Own it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 20, 2019, 02:43:23 PM
not until Kam makes me!
Title: K, K, K
Post by: bodiddley on May 20, 2019, 04:46:15 PM
I'm real ambivalent about KD and Irving.

As for NYC matches:
KD is prickly, which dates back to his OKC days
KI is moody and goofy
KL is introverted
None of those 3 seem fit for NY.
Leonard's the only one I'd want to be rooting for (despite him screwing the team that developed him)

I miss KZ...

As for Ibaka's transition laziest, re-watch G2 and get back to me.  I've noticed it before, but it was prominent in G2.  Doesn't knock his talent (just some effort).  Wade was pretty notorious for not getting back.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on May 20, 2019, 04:54:49 PM
Was there a bigger jerk on the planet than Latrell Sprewell?  It worked out well and he become beloved.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 20, 2019, 05:06:53 PM
NY loves a guy who plays hard and defends.
Spree, LJ, Oak, Ewing, KT, etc.
And a little nasty streak is always a bonus.
Title: Re: K, K, K
Post by: Kam on May 20, 2019, 05:13:15 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 20, 2019, 04:46:15 PM
I'm real ambivalent about KD and Irving.

As for NYC matches:
KD is prickly, which dates back to his OKC days

Let's engage in some fantasy talk.  In this fantasy: Assume KD is coming.


What we know for certain:  AD wants out of New Orleans.  The Knicks (and others) are interested.

What we know with high certainty: Zion and RJ are tight.

What we know with some certainty: Zion's reaction seemed blah about New Orleans.

Do we make an offer for AD that includes the #3 pick, Mitchell Robinson*, Knox, and the Dallas picks plus whatever salary filler?

*love him but AD means Mitchell plays less as we don't know if they can play together.  Also Knick rookies don't have great Sophomore track records.


From New Orleans side, they give Zion a familiar buddy (who was only the Nations #1 prospect 9 months ago) and improve his happiness and get a potential mini-AD replacement.  Plus picks.  I think that is more attractive that other offers because no other team has Zion's friend and a young center that does some of what AD does (at least on the defensive side of the ball)


For the Knicks,  you have Durant and AD.  You still have all your young guards.  You don't need Kyrie.  Kyrie would take minutes from all the young guards and still be the third best player in that KD-AD-KI configuration but have the ball in his hands to start every play.   Not the most efficient way to run an offense to maximize the effect of KD and AD.   What is wrong with KD as our primary playmaker.  He won't want the responsibility all game, but in the last five minutes i would like to see him start the offense and either find AD or take it himself.


--



OF course this fantasy falls apart if KD won't come.   Unless Kawhi likes the idea of pairing with AD here it won't make sense to trade for AD alone of another Superstar coming in Free Agency.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 20, 2019, 05:58:14 PM
Too much to give for Brow......

Robinson.  Knox if you have to.  Smith if you have to.  Future #1s.

If they spit at it, fine - we move on.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 20, 2019, 07:53:08 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 20, 2019, 05:58:14 PM
Too much to give for Brow......

Robinson.  Knox if you have to.  Smith if you have to.  Future #1s.

If they spit at it, fine - we move on.

The deal hinges on RJ
Title: Why we sleepin on Ognjen?
Post by: Kam on May 20, 2019, 08:01:09 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ognjen_Jaramaz (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ognjen_Jaramaz)


Gold Medal winning PG
Title: Knicks QUIZ: favorite universities to draft from
Post by: Kam on May 20, 2019, 08:06:14 PM
Knicks have drafted 6 guys from this local uni
Knicks have drafted 5 guys from this national power
Knicks have drafted 4 guys from this party school
Knicks have drafted 3 guys from this school known for Men's LaCrosse (if they draft RJ Barrett)
Title: Re: Why we sleepin on Ognjen?
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 20, 2019, 08:19:31 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 20, 2019, 08:01:09 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ognjen_Jaramaz (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ognjen_Jaramaz)


Gold Medal winning PG

Sure - he can be in the deal
Title: Re: Why we sleepin on Ognjen?
Post by: Kam on May 20, 2019, 08:27:24 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 20, 2019, 08:19:31 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 20, 2019, 08:01:09 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ognjen_Jaramaz (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ognjen_Jaramaz)


Gold Medal winning PG

Sure - he can be in the deal

They call him the Serbian DJ Augustin!


OK i made that up
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 20, 2019, 08:34:30 PM
He's cool - but failed our tryout
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 20, 2019, 08:35:04 PM
Then again - thats when Frank was half decent
Title: Brow
Post by: carlos123 on May 20, 2019, 10:12:34 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 20, 2019, 05:58:14 PM
Too much to give for Brow......


As long as we can target free agents at positions other than Center, anything is too much to give for Brow. Let Boston and the Lebronkers duke it out.
Title: Attaboy
Post by: carlos123 on May 20, 2019, 10:20:00 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on May 20, 2019, 02:43:23 PM
not until Kam makes me!

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/3t0wYAR2BJWKPgKkV3oj7Sf1bPi2ymnkfBrStFwCK-61ZsWqgrFNZBAYFi9f9JJwyg1XyVpsHF-GlJcS-6aVV5IXWgDrcl71AO0ZTAytlcX3f1mkvehwWQQsjxXngeNksukOIcrJJWtk1gaZ2E0uTlRr-YYGnHUkii2tVy45l5FadilDt5vbLr9gos36oYe12Sno3k4at0BgO_F4qcLrsTA3ELPzl2CXu7xjGN2QDwUxVP-5KBrv0k34c4LV7XYbyXhgGa_OmoEUJ8H5mhT0N6-dKqHR3Miy94gtRaqz0xNVNQA3sC1az_1esMuRveP3jew0zHmiV119YmJS5momoTkV8QxzDXRFxCe9KwTZltY0myDihGE74IlASMpl5K97iWLUQHh4VRirHUYOORXbIn8W35apYYZI9Hd8luAyXRN1LI2ufijqPuR0g1tUGyFh2Rg4d1NJynaHF5sSeKO64Qcqk8SiVKUk6ajt1sjz9SPBSFk3EG4U5ORUsOvBzZKR-XiyxUcjsLaHF7pb9LsSO4mOny1SVc11DFEG4OfuubKWa2GMKx2xo-09Dt74tvakV-QzDOBqGWaopqP2DzeCSUR68r2pXuEn4Pq60jKSv1Eb9ft0bTK6FxGccOxhA1c0krovp6TFztnBIEQShZe3z5ScxDtioTY=w1199-h600-no)

THAT'S MY DOGGIE!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 20, 2019, 10:20:59 PM
And your dog says, JButler is the Sprewell simulacra, not KD
Title: No fightin
Post by: carlos123 on May 20, 2019, 10:26:33 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on May 20, 2019, 10:20:59 PM
And your dog says, JButler is the Sprewell simulacra, not KD

My first choice would be KL, but we ain't gonna fight over that. He ain't coming to NY anyway.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 21, 2019, 08:33:44 AM
Warriors sweep.....

yep.   

I will soon wonder if not taking that 10-1 (I think it was) Bucks bet back in December was unwise.

Still believe in the Raps.  Should be a good finish there.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 21, 2019, 01:14:04 PM
Bart, replied in the Trump hotel part of this forum.

Impressive for GS to sweep with Durant and Iggy out.
People forget how good the core guys were before KD, and KD often overshadows them (or hogs the ball, depending on your viewpoint).

TOR needs to get their bench in order.  I would go with Lin as backup PG.  Or at least have a short hook with FVV.  Can't let him go 1-11 and Starks you out of the playoffs . . .

Talked to an OZ Knicks fan I played with tonight, and he's like you mopes -- disappointed NYK got the #3 pick, glumly hoping it can work out somehow, etc.  I seem to be the only one thrilled to have a #3 pick.  Me & Rob Pachinko . . .
Title: Bo you should write ALL ALONE on your sneakers
Post by: Kam on May 21, 2019, 01:26:34 PM
When you play BBALL  ala Stephon


PS.  I liked the #3 pick too
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 21, 2019, 08:48:33 PM
Meanwhile - fuck Don Nelson

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/stephen-currys-father-dell-curry-admits-he-told-the-warriors-not-to-select-his-son-back-in-2009-nba-draft/
Title: Phuck Van Gundy
Post by: carlos123 on May 21, 2019, 09:33:50 PM
Well, maybe Don Nelson shouldn't have been fired when he was.
Title: Rob Pelinka
Post by: Kam on May 22, 2019, 12:21:01 AM
When Carlos Boozer faked out the Cavaliers and signed a big-money deal with Utah his agent was Rob Pelinka.


According to sources in Cleveland, Boozer and Pelinka approached the Cavs about letting him out of the last year of his contract June 30. Boozer could have been Cleveland's next season for $695,000, but the Cavaliers did not pick up their option after, the club said, Boozer had committed to re-signing for the team's full midlevel exception -- somewhere around six years and $40 million.

Boozer agreed to a six-year, $68 million contract with the Utah Jazz.
Title: Pelinka
Post by: carlos123 on May 22, 2019, 01:09:00 AM
Maybe Magic shoulda fired him, rather than let him undercut him behind his back.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 22, 2019, 05:25:41 AM
Twas a tricky situation with Booz.
Being a 2nd rounder who busted out, that team option would lock him into a serious underpay ($9M below his market rate).  If CLE picked that $700K up, Booz woulda been unhappy for a season and not re-signed with them.  But I believe CLE was limited to offering the MLE, starting around $5M and averaging just $6.5M over 6 years.  While his market rate turned out to be over $11M per year average.

So staying Cavs-side was always a losing proposition for Booz.  Either lose roughly $9M via the one year option, and risking injury that year before cashing in.  Or lose $28M over the next 6 years, by taking the Cavs full MLE.  Yes, he could have signed a shorter CLE MLE deal.  But say a 2/$12M with 3rd year player option (to get him a guaranteed ~$19M, and some injury insurance), would be barely more for 2 years than he ended up making in 1 year with UTA.

The 2/$12M MLE would have gotten him the same money as the 1 year CLE team option and then signing with UTA for $11M, but with the injury risk and almost no guaranteed money if he played poorly (or got injured). 

Bottom Line: CLE took a risk trying to lock Booz into a long-term underpay, to help him get out of an unfortunate short-term underpay.  Und you have a binding agreement when you have a signed legal contract.  Booz and Pachinko did what was best for Booz and cashed in while they/he could. 

Booz was injured 3 of his 6 years in UTA.  Played just 84 games in his first two years there.  Played well when healthy.  His 3 healthy UTE years he averaged over 20 & 10.  Made 2 all-star teams.  But then his 5th year in Utah just 37 games.  Unusually, his first 2 seasons in CLE were his best FT% years.  Who gets worse at FT shooting?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 22, 2019, 07:20:25 AM
Mitch Rob made 2nd team all-rook.
Looks like Huerter beat out Knox and the Bridges and Trier for the final spot.

I was saying that Kawhi needs to kick the ball out more when 3 Bucks converge on him in the paint.  Though he was doing so a fair amount in the first 3 games.  But in G4 you have to wonder if the Bucks were overly collapsing on Kawhi.  He was somewhat hobbled.  Maybe they should have made him shoot more and defended the perimeter better.  They stuck to their packthepaint style and got burned.

FVV's wife just had a baby.  So maybe distractions and lack of sleep was hampering El Fred. 

With everybody getting worn down and dinged up, I think they should just settle this series with a best-of-3 game of 1-on-1 between Frogdon and Normative Powell.  I'd watch.
Powell has added energy and a spark for TOR.  Brog has been terrific since returning ... up until G4, when he was still aggressive, but less impactful.

Looks like I'm going to be in Georgia and Armenia during the Finals, which probably means 4 or 5:AM starts.  Too bad, as it'd be fun to watch some of the NBA Finals in a bar in Tbilisi or Yerevan.  If they televise live, I can wake up early to catch 2nd halves, maybe.  Or I might just find out who won a week after it's all over . . .
Title: Re: Pelinka
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 22, 2019, 08:08:53 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 22, 2019, 01:09:00 AM
Maybe Magic shoulda fired him, rather than let him undercut him behind his back.

Fire Kobe's guy?

Wasn't an option.

I applaud Magic for not starting a war with another Laker legend.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 22, 2019, 08:13:14 AM
Classy guy - should have been a Knick

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/hornets-miles-bridges-doesnt-believe-he-was-snubbed-on-nba-all-rookie-teams/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 22, 2019, 02:01:18 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 22, 2019, 07:20:25 AM
Mitch Rob made 2nd team all-rook.
Looks like Huerter beat out Knox and the Bridges and Trier for the final spot.


The first five picks of the 2018 draft proved predictive regarding the 2019 All-Rookie first team, announced by the NBA on Tuesday.

Top overall pick Deandre Ayton of the Phoenix Suns was joined by the Sacramento Kings' Marvin Bagley III (No. 2), Dallas Mavericks' Luka Doncic (No. 3), Memphis Grizzlies' Jaren Jackson Jr. (No. 4) and Atlanta Hawks' Trae Young (No. 5) on the first team.


I wonder how often that happens.   The first five pick are all on the rookie first team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 22, 2019, 02:09:35 PM
Only YOUNG and Doncic were unanimous

Critics of Young fall silent.
Title: Re: K, K, K
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 22, 2019, 03:18:24 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 20, 2019, 05:13:15 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 20, 2019, 04:46:15 PM
I'm real ambivalent about KD and Irving.

As for NYC matches:
KD is prickly, which dates back to his OKC days

Let's engage in some fantasy talk.  In this fantasy: Assume KD is coming.


What we know for certain:  AD wants out of New Orleans.  The Knicks (and others) are interested.

What we know with high certainty: Zion and RJ are tight.

What we know with some certainty: Zion's reaction seemed blah about New Orleans.

Do we make an offer for AD that includes the #3 pick, Mitchell Robinson*, Knox, and the Dallas picks plus whatever salary filler?


Love the thought of RJ, would add more picks to make it happen without RJ, but definitely do this deal if necessary.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 22, 2019, 03:19:12 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 20, 2019, 01:06:59 PM
Why not give Lin some run?  FVV has lost confidence.  1-11 and foul prone.  Looks awful.

Interesting that Nurse's patience paid off.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 22, 2019, 03:22:34 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 21, 2019, 01:14:04 PM
Talked to an OZ Knicks fan I played with tonight, and he's like you mopes -- disappointed NYK got the #3 pick, glumly hoping it can work out somehow, etc.  I seem to be the only one thrilled to have a #3 pick.  Me & Rob Pachinko . . .

Aren't most people happy with the third pick? I'm quite happy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 22, 2019, 03:24:17 PM
Posting this in full, because it's worth reading if you want to know our cap situation:

Scenarios where Knicks can trade for Anthony Davis, including one where they add 2 max free agents
It's fair to assume at this point that Davis remains committed to leaving the Pelicans
By Ian Begley | 9:00AM
 
The Pelicans still hope to convince Anthony Davis to stay in New Orleans. "We feel confident that we can create the right, and are creating the right, environment for Anthony," Pelicans top executive David Griffin said Tuesday.

Those hopes aside, it's fair to assume at this point that Davis remains committed to leaving the franchise.

The Knicks, of course, will be among the many teams interested in trading for the big man this summer if he wants out of the Big Easy.


We know that Davis would consider re-signing with the Knicks if he felt he could succeed with the club . We also know that several rival executives see the possibility of Davis and Kyrie Irving ending up in Los Angeles alongside LeBron James as something that's very real.

When you talk about potential Davis trades, there a few things to consider.

One is if the Knicks are able to pair him with one or two max free agents. If the Knicks are only able to pair him with one max free agent, they could potentially acquire Davis into cap room without regard to salary matching. Pairing him with two max free agents would require both precise timing and salary-match considerations.

Another is Davis' trade bonus, which would pay out up to an additional $4.1 million on top of his $27.1 million salary for next season if he's traded this summer. That bonus would be payable by the Pelicans, but would be added to the cap sheet of any team that acquires him. Players are allowed to waive all or part of their trade bonuses, at their discretion.

The Knicks can create as much as $72.5 million of cap room this summer, if they were to waive Lance Thomas (his $7.6 million salary becomes $1.0 million guaranteed on June 30); renounce their rights to Emmanuel Mudiay and other free agents; and decline their team options on Allonzo Trier ($3.6 million), John Jenkins ($2.0 million), Henry Ellenson ($1.6 million) and Billy Garrett ($1.4 million); but retain Damyean Dotson (whose $1.6 million salary becomes guaranteed on July 15).

With that in mind, here are a few pathways for the Knicks to acquire Davis in a trade, with the assistance of Albert Nahmad.

SIGNING KEVIN DURANT, TRADING FOR AD:
Let's assume the Knicks sign Kevin Durant to a max contract ($38.2 million in 2019-20, with a $164 million total over four years). The remaining $35.2 million in cap room would be more than enough to acquire Davis' salary (between $27.1 million and $31.1 million, depending upon whether he demands his trade bonus). So they could potentially acquire Davis for a package of young players and picks, without needing to match his salary. They would even have cap room to spare, in addition to the $4.8 million room mid-level exception, with which to fill out the roster.



SIGNING DURANT AND KYRIE IRVING, TRADING FOR AD:
Now let's assume the Knicks sign both Durant and Kyrie Irving ($32.7 million in 2019-20, with a $141 million total over four years). Things get a bit trickier here, as they wouldn't have enough cap room to absorb Davis' contract. They'd need to create at least $70.0 million in cap room to sign both Durant and Irving, but would still need to have enough salary left over to salary-match for Davis. If Davis were to agree to waive his trade bonus, they'd need to send out at least $21.6 million in salary. If he doesn't, which in a way could serve as a no-trade clause of sorts, they'd need to send out at least $24.8 million in salary.

Davis' trade bonus could impact which players the Knicks would need to send out in a deal, as well as what actions they take prior to the start of free agency. Counterintuitive as it may seem, New York could potentially gain flexibility in trade scenarios by exercising the team options of Trier, Jenkins, Ellenson, and/or Garrett. While they can create up to $72.5 million of cap room, they only need $70.0 million to sign both Durant and Irving. Exercising all of the latter three options would still leave New York with $70.1 million of room -- enough to sign both players, while giving them another $5.1 million of tradable salary. This could prove important if Davis demands his full trade bonus because the Knicks wouldn't have enough salary left over after signing Durant and Irving to trade-match for him unless they exercise at least one of the options.

If Davis does waive his trade bonus, the Knicks could reach the $21.6 million by putting together various packages of players, including a package of RJ Barrett, Frank Ntilikina, Dennis Smith Jr. and Dotson, along with Jenkins and Ellenson. If Davis doesn't waive his trade bonus, New York could make a trade work by including Kevin Knox in the package above. In either case, they can (and will probably have to) include future first-round picks in a Davis deal. They have six over the next four drafts but can't trade all of their first-round picks in successive years.

As for timing, the Knicks would first need to sign Durant and Irving, then complete the trade for Davis. They'd also need to sign Barrett to his rookie-scale contract, and then wait 30 days for him to become eligible to be traded.

Upon completion, they'd have just the room mid-level exception ($4.8 million) and veteran's minimum exceptions to fill out the rest of the roster.

WHAT ABOUT RJ BARRETT AND MITCHELL ROBINSON? DO THEY HAVE TO BE IN THE DEAL?
There remains no consensus among Knicks decision-makers about including the No. 3 overall pick in a Davis trade, per sources. Obviously, the Knicks would prefer to keep the No. 3 overall pick (which is expected to be Barrett) and young center Mitchell Robinson out of any trade talks. But at current cap projections, they'd need to include at least one of the two in a trade if they hope to sign both Durant and Irving -- or two other max free agents with similar service time -- and trade for Davis. It would be technically possible to complete a trade for Davis without including Barrett, but only if the entire rest of the roster is included (Ntilikina, Smith, Knox, Robinson and Dotson, as well as Jenkins, Ellenson and Garrett, whose options would need to be exercised) and only if Davis waives his trade bonus.



WHAT ABOUT ALLONZO TRIER'S OPTION?
Trier could be an interesting factor in the Knicks' summer plans. They have a $3.6 million team option on him that they have until June 20 to exercise. If they exercise it, Trier would count against their cap at that number. If they decline it, he'd have a cap hold of $4.7 million if they extend a qualifying offer to make him a restricted free agent or $4.5 million if they keep him unrestricted.

The Knicks could exercise the option and still have enough cap room for both Durant and Irving, but they'd need to waive Dotson to get it. Exercising Trier's option while retaining Dotson would leave them a mere $130K short of necessary cap room for both Durant and Irving. To bridge that gap, either Durant or Irving could take the slightest of discounts from the max or the final salary cap would need to increase from its current $109 million projection to $109.5 million. The cap could jump based on increases in revenue (for up-to-the minute cap analysis, be sure to check @KnicksFilmSchool regularly). One factor there is revenue from postseason games. So Knicks fans should be rooting for a longer Eastern Conference Finals and a seven-game NBA Finals.

Something worth noting: If the Knicks choose to move Ntilikina in a separate trade for a draft pick(s), they could potentially create an additional $4.0 million in cap space. But that trade would also take away $4.9 million in salary that they can send out in a Davis trade, which matters if the Knicks sign two max free agents and then try to trade for Davis.
Title: Re: K, K, K
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 22, 2019, 03:35:01 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on May 22, 2019, 03:18:24 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 20, 2019, 05:13:15 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 20, 2019, 04:46:15 PM
I'm real ambivalent about KD and Irving.

As for NYC matches:
KD is prickly, which dates back to his OKC days

Let's engage in some fantasy talk.  In this fantasy: Assume KD is coming.


What we know for certain:  AD wants out of New Orleans.  The Knicks (and others) are interested.

What we know with high certainty: Zion and RJ are tight.

What we know with some certainty: Zion's reaction seemed blah about New Orleans.

Do we make an offer for AD that includes the #3 pick, Mitchell Robinson*, Knox, and the Dallas picks plus whatever salary filler?


Love the thought of RJ, would add more picks to make it happen without RJ, but definitely do this deal if necessary.

You're both nuts
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 22, 2019, 03:45:14 PM
Using above info, seems the Trier signing was ludicrous
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 22, 2019, 04:36:54 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on May 22, 2019, 03:19:12 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 20, 2019, 01:06:59 PM
Why not give Lin some run?  FVV has lost confidence.  1-11 and foul prone.  Looks awful.

Interesting that Nurse's patience paid off.

FVV still looked kinda shaky half the time.
One of his makes was a banked in 3 that kicked around the rim.
Had one bad pass almost stolen, instead just deflected out of bounds.  Often went nowhere.  Good stuff: Set up Norm for a nice corner 3.  Had a real good steal to start the 4Q.  Nice floater in the 4Q.  Things worked out for him, while he didn't look that great.

Otoh, Brogdon looked pretty good while missing a lot.  Missed 3 layups (one blocked).  Missed 3 floaters, including one with a lot of contact (could have been a foul called).   Front-rimmed 2 open 3's.  The Frog was aggressive and a lot just missed a bit.  He did play pretty good D on Kawhi.  Looked good while not getting results.

Anyway, let's see how FVV and TOR's reserves do back on the Road.  And FVV has a genuine excuse, as he probably hasn't gotten much sleep lately. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 22, 2019, 05:25:46 PM
May not do as well.  Home court is what it is.  2 good teams.  No degrading, no extra analysis of talent needed.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 23, 2019, 12:34:26 AM
FVV is small but nonetheless a solid defender as he sticks to schemes and gets around picks as well as anyone the Raptors have. He hasn't lost focus on that end even as his shot has gone wayward.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 23, 2019, 12:37:31 AM
If I'm David Griffin, I'm asking Boston for nothing less than Tatum/Smart/14th pick/Memphis pick/Robert Williams. That should just work under the cap. Not touching Hayward - he doesn't fit the age timeline of Zion Williamson (Jrue barely does, so I'd keep him).

That's better than what the Knicks or Lakers can offer. And it's a lot better than any Knicks deal that doesn't include RJ Barrett or Mitchell Robinson.
Title: AD
Post by: carlos123 on May 23, 2019, 12:56:27 AM
Ok, good, let Boston have him.

I’d rather keep Robinson and RJ.

You people are all making me nervous. Phuck AD AND Nola.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 23, 2019, 01:33:25 AM
I’m with you on ducking out of the AD sweepstakes. Take RJ to keep & see who wants to come on as a free agent.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 23, 2019, 08:28:07 AM
KRISTAPS PORZINGIS gave the Knicks seven days to trade him - or he was going back to play in Europe.

New info from Steve Mills, who patted himself on the back for having deals already set in place at the time.

per Sirrius NBA Radio
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 23, 2019, 08:29:22 AM
Also hearing of a Chris Broussard=KD flap.

Great - thanks, Broussard - all we need is KD not wanting to deal with your ass in NY - thus making a better decision for himself.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 23, 2019, 12:07:14 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 23, 2019, 08:28:07 AM
KRISTAPS PORZINGIS gave the Knicks seven days to trade him - or he was going back to play in Europe.
New info from Steve Mills,

Huh?
First off he wasn't healthy to play anywhere.
And 2nd he was under contract with NY.  I doubt he could just walk away and sign in Euroland (where he'd earn much less even if he could).  I know Euro players have to be cleared by FIBA that they are legally out of their euro-contract before joining the NBA.  I assume it works in reverse.

The real question, which Mills likely ducked/didn't answer, is why was KZ so down on NYK and wanted out of NYC so much.

Broussard works for Fox Sports.  Does he have anything to do with NY these days?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 23, 2019, 12:21:46 PM
I thought vanFred was terrific last year.  One of the best backup PG's.  Brushed Delon aside, etc.  But he is stumpy and his margin of error is small.  But damn he was tough last year.
This year he was fine, but he didn't exude that confidence and aggression anymore.  And then he's been way off in the playoffs.
And it's not just shooting, it's also ballhandling and running the offense.  He just looks very de-mojoed.

These playoffs haven't been favorable to small PG's. 

Lowry has had an adventure on D, fouling a lot and getting knocked down plenty, with Bucks trying to get him in unfavorable switches.

FVV has struggled on O.
Bledsoe is struggling with his shot (5-34 on 3's in his last 7 playoff games).   11-45 FG in the TOR series.

Lillard got chumped on D.  And I think that affected his shot and aggression v. GS. 

Kyrie didn't get far.

Am I forgetting anyone?
Is this a trend due to the athletic-wing switch-everything paradigm that's prevalent now, or just a fluke.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 23, 2019, 02:44:54 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 23, 2019, 08:29:22 AM
Also hearing of a Chris Broussard=KD flap.

Great - thanks, Broussard - all we need is KD not wanting to deal with your ass in NY - thus making a better decision for himself.

Broussard has a national talk radio program.  Nothing to do with NY since his time at the Times long ago.  I doubt KD worries about seeing Chris' face after games at the garden.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 23, 2019, 03:28:44 PM
re KP: let's stay woke
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 23, 2019, 03:43:52 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on May 23, 2019, 03:28:44 PM
re KP: let's stay woke

"Shit was messed up, some dudes started coming at me ... they punched me and then I started punching them back, then things settled down for a bit, two of my guys got knocked out straight away, those dudes were from some local gang, than this guy threw a chair at me and hit me in the head and caught one my guys as well, bunch of chairs were thrown, then I caught one them and got him real good, fucked him and his face up then someone pushed me off of him and as I was getting up one of them got me pretty good in the head and that's why my head was bleeding a bit but otherwise I'm fine. I fucked up my hand a bit, but I'll be good."
Title: Mavs holding their breath and their noses
Post by: Kam on May 23, 2019, 04:01:27 PM
So Dallas gets a few surprises before KP ever plays a game for them.

There is the initial injury/rehab question that was always there but now there is also:

- KP embroiled in rape/extortion accusation

I'm not passing judgement on KP or the woman since i don't know what happened,  but this type of thing is not what you want to hear about as a fan.  Nobody comes out of this looking good regardless of who is telling the truth.

- KP f'd up his hand in a fight (showing poor judgement at the very least for time and place)

You can't tell a NBA player where to spend his offseason but I can imagine Cuban wanting something in KPs next contract about rehabbing injuries in Dallas and traveling with the team to limit the time KP spends getting into trouble around local gangs with jealousy axes to grind.

This might be nothing in the long run.  Or it might affect him and other teams may go at that hand.  Remains to be seen.  But not a welcome development from a Mavs perspective.

- KP supposedly not afraid to use the nuclear option

Might be a lie made up by Mills, but today we heard KP was ready to go back to Euroland.   Again, that would make me uneasy as a Mavs fan.  Even if it is just posturing on KP's part or an exaggeration on Mills'.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 23, 2019, 04:05:40 PM
stay woke...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 23, 2019, 04:12:45 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on May 23, 2019, 04:05:40 PM
stay woke...

You keep repeating this phrase an immature Latvian tweeted as if his words have any weight behind it.  He says nothing there.  But you're using it as a shield to deflect any and all responsibility for KP's exit.


KP acted like an entitled primadonna.  What has he ever won to deserve that?  He was hurt and still making waves.  Guess he didn't like how Melo was treated and trading away Hernangomez.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 23, 2019, 04:20:13 PM
I’m sure KP will stay out of trouble in Texas, especially in the Dallas area.

Does anyone know what the salary floor for teams is expected to be next year?

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 23, 2019, 04:35:18 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 23, 2019, 04:12:45 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on May 23, 2019, 04:05:40 PM
stay woke...

You keep repeating this phrase an immature Latvian tweeted as if his words have any weight behind it.  He says nothing there.  But you're using it as a shield to deflect any and all responsibility for KP's exit.


KP acted like an entitled primadonna.  What has he ever won to deserve that?  He was hurt and still making waves.  Guess he didn't like how Melo was treated and trading away Hernangomez.

The Sufi Avenger crawls up out of the swamp to drool some more....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 23, 2019, 05:47:46 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on May 23, 2019, 04:35:18 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 23, 2019, 04:12:45 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on May 23, 2019, 04:05:40 PM
stay woke...

You keep repeating this phrase an immature Latvian tweeted as if his words have any weight behind it.  He says nothing there.  But you're using it as a shield to deflect any and all responsibility for KP's exit.


KP acted like an entitled primadonna.  What has he ever won to deserve that?  He was hurt and still making waves.  Guess he didn't like how Melo was treated and trading away Hernangomez.

The Sufi Avenger crawls up out of the swamp to drool some more....

Go back to sleep.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 23, 2019, 05:50:19 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on May 23, 2019, 04:20:13 PM

Does anyone know what the salary floor for teams is expected to be next year?

It depends on what they set for the salary cap.  The floor is 90% of the cap. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 23, 2019, 06:07:06 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 23, 2019, 03:43:52 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on May 23, 2019, 03:28:44 PM
re KP: let's stay woke

"Shit was messed up, some dudes started coming at me ... they punched me and then I started punching them back, then things settled down for a bit, two of my guys got knocked out straight away, those dudes were from some local gang, than this guy threw a chair at me and hit me in the head and caught one my guys as well, bunch of chairs were thrown, then I caught one them and got him real good, fucked him and his face up then someone pushed me off of him and as I was getting up one of them got me pretty good in the head and that's why my head was bleeding a bit but otherwise I'm fine. I fucked up my hand a bit, but I'll be good."

Asshole.

Why was he anti-Knicks?  Pay attention.  Mills dissed his workouts, for one.  Implied that KP wasnt working hard enough.

KP threatened to go back to Europe - true.

You would rather have had us call his bluff?  That's fine.  I wanted him gone earlier - and we would have got more.  Just not a max guy.  And he'd have wanted it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 23, 2019, 07:56:32 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 23, 2019, 06:07:06 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 23, 2019, 03:43:52 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on May 23, 2019, 03:28:44 PM
re KP: let's stay woke

"Shit was messed up, some dudes started coming at me ... they punched me and then I started punching them back, then things settled down for a bit, two of my guys got knocked out straight away, those dudes were from some local gang, than this guy threw a chair at me and hit me in the head and caught one my guys as well, bunch of chairs were thrown, then I caught one them and got him real good, fucked him and his face up then someone pushed me off of him and as I was getting up one of them got me pretty good in the head and that's why my head was bleeding a bit but otherwise I'm fine. I fucked up my hand a bit, but I'll be good."

Asshole.

Why was he anti-Knicks?  Pay attention.  Mills dissed his workouts, for one.  Implied that KP wasnt working hard enough.


Where did Mills ever diss his workouts? 
Title: UCLA Freshman Moses Brown
Post by: Kam on May 23, 2019, 08:25:46 PM
https://www.nbadraft.net/players/moses-brown (https://www.nbadraft.net/players/moses-brown)

Remember this name.  He has the tools (measurements) to be a big time shot blocker.

His combination of height (7'2") standing reach (9'5") and vertical jump (27") means the apex of his jump is nearly 12 feet high!

If we deal Mitchell i'd be OK draft his replacement with our 2nd pick #55

And he is from Queens!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 23, 2019, 08:34:52 PM
All these self loathing Knicks fans asking why did KP want to leave???  What did the Knicks do wrong?  Umm...nothing?

Classic behavior for someone whose Girlfriend dumped him.  Forget that girl! She left because she doesn't value you.

You deserve better, Knicks fans.

Title: Re: UCLA Freshman Moses Brown
Post by: Kam on May 23, 2019, 08:39:52 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 23, 2019, 08:25:46 PM
https://www.nbadraft.net/players/moses-brown (https://www.nbadraft.net/players/moses-brown)

Remember this name.  He has the tools (measurements) to be a big time shot blocker.

His combination of height (7'2") standing reach (9'5") and vertical jump (27") means the apex of his jump is nearly 12 feet high!

If we deal Mitchell i'd be OK draft his replacement with our 2nd pick #55

And he is from Queens!

Similar profile: Nicolas Claxton.   

Remains to be seen if either big man pulls out of the process.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 23, 2019, 08:44:01 PM
Gasol is a horror.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 23, 2019, 08:47:53 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 23, 2019, 08:34:52 PM
All these self loathing Knicks fans asking why did KP want to leave??? What did the Knicks do wrong?  Umm...nothing?

Classic behavior for someone whose Girlfriend dumped him.  Forget that girl! She left because she doesn't value you.

You deserve better, Knicks fans.

Bull shit.

Tank = embarrassment for KP.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 23, 2019, 10:22:19 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 23, 2019, 08:47:53 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 23, 2019, 08:34:52 PM
All these self loathing Knicks fans asking why did KP want to leave??? What did the Knicks do wrong?  Umm...nothing?

Classic behavior for someone whose Girlfriend dumped him.  Forget that girl! She left because she doesn't value you.

You deserve better, Knicks fans.

Bull shit.

Tank = embarrassment for KP.

Umm, that's total BS. 
What were we supposed to do with him injured?
What did Dallas do a year ago when they got the fifth pick?

We were trying to pair him with a Top 5 pick.   So that he would have some help.  We did well to move on when we did. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 23, 2019, 10:22:54 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 23, 2019, 08:47:53 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 23, 2019, 08:34:52 PM
All these self loathing Knicks fans asking why did KP want to leave??? What did the Knicks do wrong?  Umm...nothing?

Classic behavior for someone whose Girlfriend dumped him.  Forget that girl! She left because she doesn't value you.

You deserve better, Knicks fans.

Bull shit.

Tank = embarrassment for KP.

You have no proof for what you state.  Ever.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 23, 2019, 10:38:54 PM
Get Gasol off the court!
Title: Why?
Post by: carlos123 on May 23, 2019, 11:19:33 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 23, 2019, 10:38:54 PM
Get Gasol off the court!

Why u hate him so much? I mean, he’s Spanish but he’s also kinda whitish, I thought you’d like that. Guess the Spanish thingy overrides the White-ish thing in your peculiar mind.

PS. KL is SUPERMAN ⛹🏾‍♂️
Title: Re: Why?
Post by: facilitatorn on May 23, 2019, 11:44:18 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 23, 2019, 11:19:33 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 23, 2019, 10:38:54 PM
Get Gasol off the court!

Why u hate him so much? I mean, he’s Spanish but he’s also kinda whitish, I thought you’d like that. Guess the Spanish thingy overrides the White-ish thing in your peculiar mind.

PS. KL is SUPERMAN ⛹🏾‍♂️

You’re forgetting the Jose thing.

Kid’s problem with Marc is probably that he plays D.
Title: Re: Why?
Post by: carlos123 on May 24, 2019, 12:55:49 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on May 23, 2019, 11:44:18 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 23, 2019, 11:19:33 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 23, 2019, 10:38:54 PM
Get Gasol off the court!

Why u hate him so much? I mean, he’s Spanish but he’s also kinda whitish, I thought you’d like that. Guess the Spanish thingy overrides the White-ish thing in your peculiar mind.

PS. KL is SUPERMAN ⛹🏾‍♂️

You’re forgetting the Jose thing.

Kid’s problem with Marc is probably that he plays D.

You’re right. I forgot about José.

Maybe is the D. Maybe it’s something else entirely... peculiar little mind. Inscrutable.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 24, 2019, 03:22:35 AM
Gasol had a terrific block on Lopez by the rim late.
Then got a key rebound and was fouled by Lopez under a minute.  Only 1-2 on FT's, but still those were two important plays.
(along with Siakim's block of Giannis a play before Gasol's block).

Kawhi started fading badly (fatigue?).  Last 3 mins or so: Going 1-2 on FT's, that could have put TOR up 4.  Allowed a lob to Giannis.  Getting to Middleton late in the corner, allowing Mid to drive baseline to the rim.  Then an ugly fadeaway 18' airball.  He had a terrific game, but late made those mistakes.

Looked to me like The Frog lost the ball out of bounds after swinging it down low into Siakim's shin.  I thought it was going to be MIL's ball (something like a 3 Pt Tor lead under 30 secs).
That was a big call.  Questionable. Though maybe I missed something.

Odd that MIL sent 3 defenders into the backcourt to harass Kawhi near the end.  Assume that was a miscom and only two were supposed to do the backcourt trap.  Once KL got the ball over the 3 of them, MIL was totally compromised, and should have/maybe did foul Lowry.

Experience has been my mantra this post-season.  Overriding home court.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 24, 2019, 03:32:04 AM
Van Fred came through.
Especially important with Granny Deen doing nada.
Still 37 mins and 1 assist for a PG is limited, and much of the time he had the ball it seemed like an adventure (like the time with aroudn 3 mins left in the 3Q and he dribbled nowhere and wound up taking a 14' shot over the backboard with time on the shot clock. But popped in 7-9 treys and was a whopping +28.
So was huge, along with Kawhi.

The Frog got the start and had a very solid game.  but that turnover at the end was deadly.  Siakim's not the guy you try to make moves on when stuck in the corner.  Even if I thought it went off Siakim.

Mirrortrick and Ilya combined to score as many points as Bo did.
Told ya those guys tend to disappear.
Geo Hill's numbers look solid, but he was a huge negative 22 +/-wise.

I missed most of the 1st half, so have to go by the box more than I'd like.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 24, 2019, 04:51:54 AM
Quote from: Kam on May 23, 2019, 05:47:46 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on May 23, 2019, 04:35:18 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 23, 2019, 04:12:45 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on May 23, 2019, 04:05:40 PM
stay woke...

You keep repeating this phrase an immature Latvian tweeted as if his words have any weight behind it.  He says nothing there.  But you're using it as a shield to deflect any and all responsibility for KP's exit.


KP acted like an entitled primadonna.  What has he ever won to deserve that?  He was hurt and still making waves.  Guess he didn't like how Melo was treated and trading away Hernangomez.

The Sufi Avenger crawls up out of the swamp to drool some more....

Go back to sleep.

Whether I agree with you or not, Kam, you put up with just a consistent torrent of annoying immaturity from Lester without being a jerk in response. Well done.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 24, 2019, 04:52:30 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 23, 2019, 10:38:54 PM
Get Gasol off the court!

His D has been just terrific three series in a row. Shot poorly in G5, but Nurse's loyalty has paid off.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 24, 2019, 04:54:22 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 24, 2019, 03:32:04 AM
Van Fred came through.
Especially important with Granny Deen doing nada.
Still 37 mins and 1 assist for a PG is limited, and much of the time he had the ball it seemed like an adventure (like the time with aroudn 3 mins left in the 3Q and he dribbled nowhere and wound up taking a 14' shot over the backboard with time on the shot clock. But popped in 7-9 treys and was a whopping +28.
So was huge, along with Kawhi.

The Frog got the start and had a very solid game.  but that turnover at the end was deadly.  Siakim's not the guy you try to make moves on when stuck in the corner.  Even if I thought it went off Siakim.

Mirrortrick and Ilya combined to score as many points as Bo did.
Told ya those guys tend to disappear.
Geo Hill's numbers look solid, but he was a huge negative 22 +/-wise.

I missed most of the 1st half, so have to go by the box more than I'd like.

Replay showed ball went off Brogdon's right leg.

FVV has played very well defensively even when his shot has wavered, and he's not generally mistake prone (although he had bad back-to-back possessions, including the one you mention, when he was feeling himself too much). I think you've been too hard on him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 24, 2019, 06:15:16 AM
Kemba making All-NBA third ahead of Klay, Beal and Derozan means he's eligible for $80m more from the Hornets than the Knicks/Nets/Clippers/Lakers can offer. I had him as gone from Charlotte before the vote. Now I think that's too much money to turn down.

Of course, Charlotte may opt against offering him that contract, seeing how it turned out for Washington vis-a-vis Wall.
Title: you pay for good performance, doggone it, you want it
Post by: lesterluv on May 24, 2019, 08:54:26 AM
Quote
The Sufi Avenger crawls up out of the swamp to drool some more....


Quote
Whether I agree with you or not, Kam, you put up with just a consistent torrent of annoying immaturity from Lester without being a jerk in response. Well done.

lol, lol, that comment got your panties in a bunch, biz?

Annoying immaturity. Far from it, — historical allusion, revealing a profound reverence for this forum's rich past (sadly lost due to the many hiccups in Elba's machine.)

The artist formerly known as Chipster once used that phrase in the coda of a 16-post battle in which he smacked Kam so hard the pimples fell off the little boy's ass.

*** my challenge to you: actually post something interesting, Señor Maduro, cause you definitely ain't no mr. dynamite
Title: but....
Post by: lesterluv on May 24, 2019, 09:10:57 AM
...if any other forumites feel annoyed by said torrent of immaturity, allow me to make amends by gifting you three minutes and thirty-two seconds of absolutely sublime artistry.

https://youtu.be/2wCArWegegQ (https://youtu.be/2wCArWegegQ)


*** Start your morning with Tito AND Nancy, and you will feel great all day long.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 24, 2019, 09:19:05 AM
Has John Wall retired?  I hadnt heard.
Title: That’s my doggie 🐶
Post by: carlos123 on May 24, 2019, 01:31:52 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on May 24, 2019, 09:10:57 AM
...if any other forumites feel annoyed by said torrent of immaturity, allow me to make amends by gifting you three minutes and thirty-two seconds of absolutely sublime artistry.

https://youtu.be/2wCArWegegQ (https://youtu.be/2wCArWegegQ)


*** Start your morning with Tito AND Nancy, and you will feel great all day long.

Les, you’re my doggie and I enjoy the “torrent of your annoying immaturity “ 😀😅😂🤣

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAc8IS-aFsA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAc8IS-aFsA)

WOOF 🐶 WOOF 🐶
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 24, 2019, 02:07:38 PM
I love a good merengue, too :)


*** especially when it's about the elder Gasol brother, like this one, https://youtu.be/8eFPM3MmTow (https://youtu.be/8eFPM3MmTow) right? I think so, my Spanish is decent, but not evolved.
Title: Kalimete
Post by: carlos123 on May 24, 2019, 03:25:23 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on May 24, 2019, 02:07:38 PM
I love a good merengue, too :)


*** especially when it's about the elder Gasol brother, like this one, https://youtu.be/8eFPM3MmTow (https://youtu.be/8eFPM3MmTow) right? I think so, my Spanish is decent, but not evolved.

Glad you’re a fan.

That’s my doggie 🐶 🐶🐶

KALIMETE
Title: New Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on May 24, 2019, 10:07:11 PM
ENJOY...

(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/61741999/KdTheKnick_NoBug_Getty_Ringer.1539323753.jpg)

(https://clutchpoints.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/rj-barrett.jpg)

DREAM ON...
(https://elitesportsny.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/kawhi-leonard1.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 25, 2019, 12:36:26 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on May 24, 2019, 04:54:22 AM
Replay showed ball went off Brogdon's right leg.

Ah, thanks.
I assumed it was something noticeable I missed.  I was probably looking at Frog's hands.  The price you pay for not having any volume on and avoiding announcers --- sometimes you don't know what the hell is going on. 

Actually for that play, I was doubly clueless, because I didn't even know what the call was on the court.  I saw both officials look at each other and neither signal right away.  Since Siakim was asking for a review, I assumed the call was MIL's ball.  The call on the floor in important as vid evidence has to be clear to overturn the made call.  Ie inconclusive and the call stands.

I've liked Frog's aggressiveness and effort and play in this series.  But some mistakes come with that.  Trying to jumpstart a possession from the corner with long rangy Siakim all over was dangerous and unwise.

As for Ma Gas&Oil, he's a smart player with size who moves the ball, defends and has experience.  Cancels out Lopez well.  In the last 5 mins of G5, Gasol popped in a 3 to keep the lead up; had a big block on Lopez near the rim; snatched a rebound that hit the floor when Lopez was closest and got fouled by the late Lopez.
Those are winning plays.

I wouldn't say he's in peak form or super-confident in his shot, but he's still a significant presence and I trust Ma G to make the right play late as much as any Rap (Kawhi has been getting fatigued late).
Title: Knox and Barrett
Post by: Kam on May 25, 2019, 01:27:23 AM
Without knowing the other three players on the floor, it's tough to predict how successful Knox and Barrett would be in lineups together. But a small sampling of scouts revealed reasons for Knicks fans to be optimistic about a Knox-Barrett pairing.

Here are truncated observations from three scouts on how the two wings may fit together:

Pro Scout
"I think (a Barrett-Knox pairing is) fine. Kevin's not really a slasher. I think he kind of wants to catch the ball and shoot it a little more than he wants to catch the ball and put it on the deck and get to the hoop. (Knox was 68th in drives per game among the 107 players to play at least 28 minutes per game last season, per NBA.com). I do think RJ Barrett wants to get to the hoop. That's one of the things I love about him. That's why I think they would work well together."

Bryan Oringher, former Wizards video coordinator and advanced scout with the Hawks and Raptors (who has a great written and video breakdown of Barrett)
"RJ and Knox complement each other relatively well. I think they both fit that 2/3 mold where they can guard either wing and play in a scheme that allows them to switch onto 1s and 4s at times. What Barrett brings that Knox doesn't have is the ability to be a secondary creator. Kind of like an Evan Fournier - Barrett can play out of high PNR, make the right read.

"I think Knox is more like another guy drafted last year - Kevin Huerter. He'll be able to handle the ball a tiny bit, but he's mostly a spot-up shooter, come off some screens. He has a decent stroke that just needs to be honed a ton more. I think Barrett would do well though as the more ball-dominant guy and can get Knox a lot of shots. The fit isn't perfect in that both are really raw, have a long way to go on their handles, shots, and other aspects of their games. And I think their success is obviously contingent on which potential stars they play with and how much they can 'ease' into their roles, potentially off the bench. Both are so young and raw. Also, I don't think either are near outstanding defenders and the Knicks' defense could continue to struggle if they're playing the majority of minutes at the wings."

College scout

"In today's NBA, RJ can play 1-4. So there's no reason it won't work well on offense. Barrett has always played with talent around him and been great. Nobody is gonna slow that kid down…. I think you really want to get Barrett going downhill. He's almost impossible to stop in the lane and that can create opportunities for Kevin. The questions are on defense, of course. Both have the frame to be able to defend. It's just a matter of learning to do it at the NBA level."
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 25, 2019, 04:55:08 PM
uggggh   -

on the Barrett defense concern

Consider others?  Of course.

Though taking Barrett and dealing Knox may actually be the answer.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 25, 2019, 11:10:33 PM
this is the best angle :)

https://twitter.com/wazzz_r/status/1132481942199373824 (https://twitter.com/wazzz_r/status/1132481942199373824)
Title: Shaq
Post by: Kam on May 25, 2019, 11:36:56 PM
Since 1984....

Every NBA finals has had a player who -  at some point in their NBA careers  - was on the same team with Shaquille O'Neal

Danny Green carries the torch this season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on May 25, 2019, 11:41:06 PM
I guess the Buck stops in Toronto.

Congrats to the Raptors.

Great series win.
Title: Re: Toronto
Post by: Kam on May 25, 2019, 11:42:30 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 14, 2019, 05:33:16 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 14, 2019, 03:58:21 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on May 14, 2019, 02:41:11 PM
What about my math? I don't get compliments? Just cause I smack you around about Turkish Delight?

Your Turkish Delight won't play in Toronto if they make it.

Doesn’t matter. Toronto won’t be in the finals.

Oh snap!
Title: Re: Toronto
Post by: carlos123 on May 26, 2019, 12:38:49 AM
Quote from: Kam on May 25, 2019, 11:42:30 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 14, 2019, 05:33:16 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 14, 2019, 03:58:21 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on May 14, 2019, 02:41:11 PM
What about my math? I don't get compliments? Just cause I smack you around about Turkish Delight?

Your Turkish Delight won't play in Toronto if they make it.

Doesn’t matter. Toronto won’t be in the finals.

Oh snap!

Well, I thought Antetokounmpo was invincible and Superman. Turns out I was wrong, and KL was MORE INVINCIBLE & MORE SUPERMAN. ⛹🏾‍♂️
Title: Toronto with home court advantage
Post by: Kam on May 26, 2019, 12:46:14 AM
New Poll....

Golden State wins in 4?

Yes or No
Title: Re: Toronto with home court advantage
Post by: carlos123 on May 26, 2019, 01:30:44 AM
Quote from: Kam on May 26, 2019, 12:46:14 AM
New Poll....

Golden State wins in 4?

Yes or No

I ain’t making no more predictions. I learned my lesson. Not picking any finals Supermen till the chickens come home to roost.

BUT THIS WOULD BE REAL NICE...
(https://elitesportsny.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/kawhi-leonard1.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 26, 2019, 03:25:27 AM
Can’t see him leaving Toronto at this point. The Raps are doing all this so far without OG, so there is internal improvement expected already.

It would be nice though.
Title: Re: Toronto with home court advantage
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 26, 2019, 12:23:57 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 26, 2019, 12:46:14 AM
New Poll....

Golden State wins in 4?

Yes or No

heh...

well - you can get about 8-1 on your money if you like that bet

TORONTO wins the title!  (I only get 2.3-1 on that)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 26, 2019, 12:26:53 PM
If you like Kawhi to re-sign with Raptors, their odds for the '19-'20 title are 30-1. 

Bucks surprisingly at 9-2 after losing.

http://www.vegasinsider.com/nba/odds/futures/

Knicks are 15-1 with Celtics

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 26, 2019, 12:48:37 PM
Had a perfect EAST in the pool

Lost OKC first round, Denver v Portland and HOU vs GS in West.

So that's 7-0 and 4-3.  Not too bad.
Title: Re: Shaq
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 27, 2019, 03:26:35 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 25, 2019, 11:36:56 PM
Since 1984....

Every NBA finals has had a player who -  at some point in their NBA careers  - was on the same team with Shaquille O'Neal

Danny Green carries the torch this season.

Incredible. Do you have the source for this so I can look at the teammates?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 27, 2019, 03:28:40 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on May 25, 2019, 11:41:06 PM
I guess the Buck stops in Toronto.

Congrats to the Raptors.

Great series win.

As someone who would have watched the Celtics-Bucks series closely, were you surprised at this outcome?

(If FVV shot only 50% on 3s over the last three games and nothing else changes, the Bucks win in 6, by the way. I get the caveats implied, but it's nonetheless worth remembering that FVV getting hot all of a sudden changes many narratives)
Title: Re: Shaq
Post by: carlos123 on May 27, 2019, 04:00:40 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on May 27, 2019, 03:26:35 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 25, 2019, 11:36:56 PM
Since 1984....

Every NBA finals has had a player who -  at some point in their NBA careers  - was on the same team with Shaquille O'Neal

Danny Green carries the torch this season.

Incredible. Do you have the source for this so I can look at the teammates?

Kam(s)terworld.com
Title: Re: Shaq
Post by: Kam on May 27, 2019, 09:35:57 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 27, 2019, 04:00:40 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on May 27, 2019, 03:26:35 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 25, 2019, 11:36:56 PM
Since 1984....

Every NBA finals has had a player who -  at some point in their NBA careers  - was on the same team with Shaquille O'Neal

Danny Green carries the torch this season.

Incredible. Do you have the source for this so I can look at the teammates?

Kam(s)terworld.com

https://hoopshype.com/2017/05/18/six-degrees-shaquille-oneal-teammates-nba-champions/ (https://hoopshype.com/2017/05/18/six-degrees-shaquille-oneal-teammates-nba-champions/)
Title: Re: Shaq
Post by: carlos123 on May 27, 2019, 11:12:16 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 27, 2019, 09:35:57 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 27, 2019, 04:00:40 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on May 27, 2019, 03:26:35 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 25, 2019, 11:36:56 PM
Since 1984....

Every NBA finals has had a player who -  at some point in their NBA careers  - was on the same team with Shaquille O'Neal

Danny Green carries the torch this season.

Incredible. Do you have the source for this so I can look at the teammates?

Kam(s)terworld.com

https://hoopshype.com/2017/05/18/six-degrees-shaquille-oneal-teammates-nba-champions/ (https://hoopshype.com/2017/05/18/six-degrees-shaquille-oneal-teammates-nba-champions/)

Kam(s)terworld.com AKA hoopshype.com 👌😊
Title: Re: Shaq
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 28, 2019, 12:10:16 AM
Quote from: Kam on May 27, 2019, 09:35:57 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 27, 2019, 04:00:40 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on May 27, 2019, 03:26:35 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 25, 2019, 11:36:56 PM
Since 1984....

Every NBA finals has had a player who -  at some point in their NBA careers  - was on the same team with Shaquille O'Neal

Danny Green carries the torch this season.

Incredible. Do you have the source for this so I can look at the teammates?

Kam(s)terworld.com

https://hoopshype.com/2017/05/18/six-degrees-shaquille-oneal-teammates-nba-champions/ (https://hoopshype.com/2017/05/18/six-degrees-shaquille-oneal-teammates-nba-champions/)

So nobody on 2017 or 2018 Warriors?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 28, 2019, 09:10:45 AM
Trade proposed this morning on Sirius NBA Radio:

Lebron to Nuggets

Harris, Barton, Porter Jr to LA.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on May 28, 2019, 09:31:21 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on May 27, 2019, 03:28:40 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on May 25, 2019, 11:41:06 PM
I guess the Buck stops in Toronto.

Congrats to the Raptors.

Great series win.

As someone who would have watched the Celtics-Bucks series closely, were you surprised at this outcome?

(If FVV shot only 50% on 3s over the last three games and nothing else changes, the Bucks win in 6, by the way. I get the caveats implied, but it's nonetheless worth remembering that FVV getting hot all of a sudden changes many narratives)

After watching the Bucks win convincingly in G2 ECF -if you told me they would then lose 4 in a row, I would have been very surprised.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 28, 2019, 01:22:47 PM
First quarter was convincing - rest of the game was EVEN.  Never end a series in your head when a team has yet to play at home - especially in a  2 vs 1, 3 vs 2, 4 vs 5, even 4 vs 1.  Even POR wasnt dead pre Game 3.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on May 28, 2019, 01:47:29 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 28, 2019, 01:22:47 PM
First quarter was convincing - rest of the game was EVEN.  Never end a series in your head when a team has yet to play at home - especially in a  2 vs 1, 3 vs 2, 4 vs 5, even 4 vs 1.  Even POR wasnt dead pre Game 3.

I recall seeing a stat that teams up 2-0 in a 7-game series win the series 94% of the time. Seems high, but IDK.
Title: Re: Shaq
Post by: Kam on May 28, 2019, 02:09:11 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on May 28, 2019, 12:10:16 AM
Quote from: Kam on May 27, 2019, 09:35:57 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 27, 2019, 04:00:40 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on May 27, 2019, 03:26:35 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 25, 2019, 11:36:56 PM
Since 1984....

Every NBA finals has had a player who -  at some point in their NBA careers  - was on the same team with Shaquille O'Neal

Danny Green carries the torch this season.

Incredible. Do you have the source for this so I can look at the teammates?

Kam(s)terworld.com

https://hoopshype.com/2017/05/18/six-degrees-shaquille-oneal-teammates-nba-champions/ (https://hoopshype.com/2017/05/18/six-degrees-shaquille-oneal-teammates-nba-champions/)

So nobody on 2017 or 2018 Warriors?

LeBron was teammates with Shaq
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 28, 2019, 02:12:02 PM
I don’t think the top 3 order is locked. The Pels or Grizz could decide they like RJ better. More likely the Grizz take him over Ja.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 28, 2019, 02:26:14 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on May 28, 2019, 01:47:29 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 28, 2019, 01:22:47 PM
First quarter was convincing - rest of the game was EVEN.  Never end a series in your head when a team has yet to play at home - especially in a  2 vs 1, 3 vs 2, 4 vs 5, even 4 vs 1.  Even POR wasnt dead pre Game 3.

I recall seeing a stat that teams up 2-0 in a 7-game series win the series 94% of the time. Seems high, but IDK.

Interesting.

In 2-2 series the game 5 winner takes the series just 5 of every 6.

But winning 4 of 5 may be tougher than 2 straight against the wall.
Title: TOMAS SATORANSKY
Post by: Kam on May 28, 2019, 02:32:35 PM
We need this guy.  Not Mario.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 28, 2019, 02:45:21 PM
I strongly agree with the second half of your post, Kam. Satoransky is a guy to keep an eye on, but I’m not sure he’s a must have.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 28, 2019, 04:16:45 PM
Ja signs with NIKE
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 28, 2019, 06:06:52 PM
So nobody else is considering Culver?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 28, 2019, 06:26:54 PM
The Lakers on down
Title: Get to know a Knick: RJ Barrett
Post by: Kam on May 29, 2019, 12:07:01 PM
As for the different cities he could wind up in, the Toronto-born Barrett said, “New York is my favorite. Every summer I visited. I have family there. That’s where my mom grew up, so I’ve definitely been there a lot.’’

With his parents’ New York background — both attended St. John’s where his father played basketball and his mother ran track — Barrett said Brooklyn is his favorite part of the city. His godfather is Steve Nash, and he credits the legendary point guard for helping mold him into the player he has become.

“He told me to continue to work hard, the work ethic, that’s how he became a two-time MVP,’’ Barrett said of Nash.
Title: CP3 on the trade block
Post by: Kam on May 29, 2019, 12:10:15 PM
Knicks should pass.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 29, 2019, 12:37:29 PM
AD deals

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/
Title: Re: CP3 on the trade block
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 29, 2019, 12:38:53 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 29, 2019, 12:10:15 PM
Knicks should pass.

Read today it was Capela
Title: LeBron James and the double standard
Post by: Kam on May 29, 2019, 12:46:35 PM
Back in 2014   (which seems like pre-history)  Dave and Busters posted  a tweet it apologized for. (https://www.adweek.com/creativity/dave-busters-just-posted-tweet-its-going-regret-long-time-161510/)

Yesterday LeBron James took to twitter to don a fake accent and do what he thinks is a    comedic routine (http://www.espn.com/videohub/video/clip/_/id/26844124).
Title: Re: CP3 on the trade block
Post by: Kam on May 29, 2019, 12:49:34 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 29, 2019, 12:38:53 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 29, 2019, 12:10:15 PM
Knicks should pass.

Read today it was Capela

Everyone but Harden is available.
Title: Seattle Supersonics
Post by: Kam on May 29, 2019, 12:54:46 PM
Have two first round picks playing in the Finals for teams that obviously did not draft them.


Name them.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 29, 2019, 05:12:36 PM
Yeah.... re:  trades - its not a good year for us to be out of that market.  Plenty of names that can help us - as our tunnelvision is on 2 things - AD and the draft.
Title: Re: Seattle Supersonics
Post by: carlos123 on May 29, 2019, 10:21:24 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 29, 2019, 12:54:46 PM
Have two first round picks playing in the Finals for teams that obviously did not draft them.


Name them.

https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/the-last-two-sonics-players-in-the-nba-will-meet-in-the-finals/ (https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/the-last-two-sonics-players-in-the-nba-will-meet-in-the-finals/)

Looking forward to welcoming KP to NY. Unfortunately, EK can't go to Ankara, or Istanbul for that matter.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/l2d4emFUIRm4T19dsSP0QBZqwF_h2DSLqpuxYYfx_kay32hEn-yawZmtjZDUqn04nd4Pn0iKcf0ip2RWh9GF0ZqlFSWaoGnPFYRiVkDO22gEe-quzN_k1A84tfGha90uk07_cSR4jZe0ovfty-nbcZsOXHAs9ZF7XIRJlF4qsjkRQ6FQOwyh2Ym4QtdlqU9r1L0Dxt-C5eOS7Vbf8Im_8LUmswl0mrDUOnD4y-izfN-JqHWCI9oLxxqY7cuXioEdPrFLDAtgEoSI7sLg9mGwz8fxNHpZe_V9kwgmju7_Z0asIC0-jdFsCivrr2U9wwsIggo60Ob-C75JBEFXn0w8PPKJwxY6LFjmRRtVzViFaHRLvALusRHZ31ayTLtgFcJ55E7k719qhTNRDh0Cgd-D8eMmCF6_7uGFsMGDGbtqbJs1KMImTaTPBRabKP9v5R7_JF4JAVXEFAW2WmgKN-LJ4e_zXQb1DDokPYaSPuUvnXUy3PNIRvGHdPsio3X5pMVKvgkZFK4JoDgFw89Upuc7Myy69u9Axgq4ALItJQgYlBY3_dl6Dkl6im-2Z-QGsQhtDDoJn0xrAIRbdNY8BfPIsWuUiOgbAft8LCStP6q9c1rI2kDeHGDMhd1UFj9qf8Nkzgjjz5oVR07etYk990J-T9TjpZGGc2I=w1136-h757-no)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 29, 2019, 11:23:44 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 29, 2019, 05:12:36 PM
Yeah.... re:  trades - its not a good year for us to be out of that market.  Plenty of names that can help us - as our tunnelvision is on 2 things - AD and the draft.

AD is only talked about BECAUSE we CAN trade for him.  This post is all wrong.  We are talking more about KD than AD.
Title: Re: Seattle Supersonics
Post by: Kam on May 29, 2019, 11:24:54 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 29, 2019, 10:21:24 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 29, 2019, 12:54:46 PM
Have two first round picks playing in the Finals for teams that obviously did not draft them.


Name them.

https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/the-last-two-sonics-players-in-the-nba-will-meet-in-the-finals/ (https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/the-last-two-sonics-players-in-the-nba-will-meet-in-the-finals/)


You're supposed to guess.  Don't google the answer Turk.
Title: Re: Seattle Supersonics
Post by: carlos123 on May 30, 2019, 12:02:32 AM
Quote from: Kam on May 29, 2019, 11:24:54 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 29, 2019, 10:21:24 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 29, 2019, 12:54:46 PM
Have two first round picks playing in the Finals for teams that obviously did not draft them.


Name them.

https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/the-last-two-sonics-players-in-the-nba-will-meet-in-the-finals/ (https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/the-last-two-sonics-players-in-the-nba-will-meet-in-the-finals/)


You're supposed to guess.  Don't google the answer Turk.

Me and Enes don’t do what you and Recep want 👎🤣

Besides, everyone knows about KD. Jeff may be a little tougher. I bet you googled it yourself.

OTOH...
Looking forward to welcoming KP to NY. Unfortunately, EK can't go to Ankara, or Istanbul for that matter.
Title: Re: Seattle Supersonics
Post by: Kam on May 30, 2019, 02:20:30 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 30, 2019, 12:02:32 AM
Quote from: Kam on May 29, 2019, 11:24:54 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 29, 2019, 10:21:24 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 29, 2019, 12:54:46 PM
Have two first round picks playing in the Finals for teams that obviously did not draft them.


Name them.

https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/the-last-two-sonics-players-in-the-nba-will-meet-in-the-finals/ (https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/the-last-two-sonics-players-in-the-nba-will-meet-in-the-finals/)


You're supposed to guess.  Don't google the answer Turk.

Me and Enes don’t do what you and Recep want 👎🤣

Besides, everyone knows about KD. Jeff may be a little tougher. I bet you googled it yourself.

OTOH...
Looking forward to welcoming KP to NY. Unfortunately, EK can't go to Ankara, or Istanbul for that matter.

I actually forgot about Green.

There is still another Sonic draft pick in the series you haven't accounted for.
Title: Re: Seattle Supersonics
Post by: carlos123 on May 30, 2019, 02:36:11 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 30, 2019, 02:20:30 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 30, 2019, 12:02:32 AM
Quote from: Kam on May 29, 2019, 11:24:54 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 29, 2019, 10:21:24 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 29, 2019, 12:54:46 PM
Have two first round picks playing in the Finals for teams that obviously did not draft them.


Name them.

https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/the-last-two-sonics-players-in-the-nba-will-meet-in-the-finals/ (https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/the-last-two-sonics-players-in-the-nba-will-meet-in-the-finals/)


You're supposed to guess.  Don't google the answer Turk.

Me and Enes don’t do what you and Recep want 👎🤣

Besides, everyone knows about KD. Jeff may be a little tougher. I bet you googled it yourself.

OTOH...
Looking forward to welcoming KP to NY. Unfortunately, EK can't go to Ankara, or Istanbul for that matter.

I actually forgot about Green.

There is still another Sonic draft pick in the series you haven't accounted for.

O Lord, I’d have to read the whole article and just don’t feel like it. Please be a good boy and tell us. 👼🏼
Title: Re: Seattle Supersonics
Post by: Kam on May 30, 2019, 02:40:04 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 30, 2019, 02:36:11 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 30, 2019, 02:20:30 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 30, 2019, 12:02:32 AM
Quote from: Kam on May 29, 2019, 11:24:54 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 29, 2019, 10:21:24 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 29, 2019, 12:54:46 PM
Have two first round picks playing in the Finals for teams that obviously did not draft them.


Name them.

https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/the-last-two-sonics-players-in-the-nba-will-meet-in-the-finals/ (https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/the-last-two-sonics-players-in-the-nba-will-meet-in-the-finals/)


You're supposed to guess.  Don't google the answer Turk.

Me and Enes don’t do what you and Recep want 👎🤣

Besides, everyone knows about KD. Jeff may be a little tougher. I bet you googled it yourself.

OTOH...
Looking forward to welcoming KP to NY. Unfortunately, EK can't go to Ankara, or Istanbul for that matter.

I actually forgot about Green.

There is still another Sonic draft pick in the series you haven't accounted for.

O Lord, I’d have to read the whole article and just don’t feel like it. Please be a good boy and tell us. 👼🏼

Its not in the article.  The article is about Sonics who played games as Sonics.

Serge Ibaka was the final 1st round pick drafted by the Sonics... just prior to the announcement they would be leaving Seattle.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 30, 2019, 02:54:51 PM
I really enjoyed the Sonics growing up.

I’m good with Ja or RJ at three. I would trade any of our young and under contract guards (DJ, Frank, Trier, Dot), along with cash and a second round pick for Brandon Clarke as well. I think he’s going to be a Rodman / Pippen level player when he rounds out his game. Mitch, Clarke, and 3 scratch defenders gives you a top 10 D. Those two cover up a ton of mistakes. Clarke is already an exemplar for current and future wings both defensively and off the ball. He’s a great athlete with a great head and I want him on the Knicks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on May 30, 2019, 02:58:29 PM
Freddie Brown was one of my favorite players.  Had a reputation as a mad bomber, but could do a lot more.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 30, 2019, 03:45:21 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on May 30, 2019, 02:54:51 PM
I would trade any of our young and under contract guards (DJ, Frank, Trier, Dot), along with cash and a second round pick for Brandon Clarke as well. I think he’s going to be a Rodman / Pippen level player when he rounds out his game. Mitch, Clarke, and 3 scratch defenders gives you a top 10 D. Those two cover up a ton of mistakes. Clarke is already an exemplar for current and future wings both defensively and off the ball. He’s a great athlete with a great head and I want him on the Knicks.

Brandon Clarke,  Gonzaga,  PF

Cons
Will be 23 years old at the start of the season.  Projects a wing defender but not a stretch 4.  Only made 1 in 4 at Gonzaga. 

Pros
Plays defense.  Can defend multiple positions. 

Comparison
Jared Jeffries.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on May 30, 2019, 04:11:19 PM
I think Clarke is far more athletic than Jeffries and will be a considerably better pro than Hachimura.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 30, 2019, 04:30:32 PM
Heh

"Will be 23" is a con.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 30, 2019, 04:35:01 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on May 30, 2019, 04:11:19 PM
I think Clarke is far more athletic than Jeffries and will be a considerably better pro than Hachimura.

Yeah

Jared is half white, after all.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on May 30, 2019, 04:37:57 PM
That's your game, Kiid.  Run with it. 
Title: But can he fly?
Post by: Kam on May 30, 2019, 05:12:40 PM
Aug 9, 2006 - What Jared brings to us, more so than talent, he brings chemistry. I think he balances your locker room. He balances the plane ride.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 30, 2019, 05:34:31 PM
Speaking of Jeffries, his thoughts on Emmanuel Mudiay (and he was spot on):

Jared Jeffries, the former Nuggets scouting director and ex-Knicks forward, told The Post that Emmanuel Mudiay desperately needed out of Denver before his entire career was shot. “I know how tough it was for [general manager] Tim [Connelly] and [owner] Josh [Kroenke] to let him go,’’ Jeffries told The Post in a phone interview. “They did the right thing for the kid. They could’ve held on to him to the point of no return and ruin his career. It’s really good the Knicks trusted what they believed at draft time and got him for a discount. If he’s on top of the world and playing great, you’re not going to get him for that.” 1 year ago – via New York Post


“He’s not a bad shooter — he’s a bad finisher,’’ Jared Jeffries said. “That’s why his field-goal percentage is a big focus. If he becomes a better finisher — something very possible — his whole game transforms. Take out his layups, he’s not a bad shooter. If he’d finish at a 60 percent clip, he’d be 48 [percent] from the floor.” Indeed, Emmanuel Mudiay is fourth-worst in the league in field goal percentage on layups (45 percent). Mudiay also happens to be a good free-throw shooter (80 percent this season). 1 year ago – via New York Post
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 30, 2019, 05:38:35 PM
Shame that we will have TRIER posing as EM this year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 30, 2019, 05:55:39 PM
Anyone else got Raptors -1 tonight?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 30, 2019, 06:07:22 PM
We’ll (hopefully) have Trier being Trier. We have a nice palette of young guards who don’t come with a 12+ million dollar cap hold. Mudiay can fall on his ass for some other team, economics in the league being what it is.

Jeffries is not a very good comp for Clarke. JJ is much bigger at 6’11 and 240. Both are guys you’d dare to shoot. Clarke just rebuilt his shooting form over the last 2 years at Gonzaga and may claw his way to decent. What he has is quickness, instincts, awareness, and athleticism. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 30, 2019, 09:02:05 PM
Raptors (a one point favorite) had better not lose tonight. I predict overtime or a close final.

If TOR loses tonight it's a sweep waiting to happen.

If they win, they still probably lose the next four. 

I've been wrong before.  Hope to be wrong again as i don't want Golden State to win.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 30, 2019, 09:04:01 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on May 30, 2019, 06:07:22 PM
We’ll (hopefully) have Trier being Trier. We have a nice palette of young guards who don’t come with a 12+ million dollar cap hold. Mudiay can fall on his ass for some other team, economics in the league being what it is.

Jeffries is not a very good comp for Clarke. JJ is much bigger at 6’11 and 240. Both are guys you’d dare to shoot. Clarke just rebuilt his shooting form over the last 2 years at Gonzaga and may claw his way to decent. What he has is quickness, instincts, awareness, and athleticism.

I think there are better prospects if we manage to nab another pick.  I don't necessarily think it has to be a Top 15 pick. 

Who is the Clarke comp?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 30, 2019, 09:09:46 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 30, 2019, 09:04:01 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on May 30, 2019, 06:07:22 PM
We’ll (hopefully) have Trier being Trier. We have a nice palette of young guards who don’t come with a 12+ million dollar cap hold. Mudiay can fall on his ass for some other team, economics in the league being what it is.

Jeffries is not a very good comp for Clarke. JJ is much bigger at 6’11 and 240. Both are guys you’d dare to shoot. Clarke just rebuilt his shooting form over the last 2 years at Gonzaga and may claw his way to decent. What he has is quickness, instincts, awareness, and athleticism.

I think there are better prospects if we manage to nab another pick.  I don't necessarily think it has to be a Top 15 pick. 

Who is the Clarke comp?

Jordan Bell, says NBAdraft.net


Re:  the PG position

All these years...... wantimg and needing.......

We lose out on one by one slot because of Don Fucking Nelson

we draft one -   BONK!

We deal for one, coach him up -   BONK - cant pay him (heh)

We trade for another --   Whothefuckknows?

And then, with a top 3 pick, we allow the PG we need to go between 4 and 6 while we take the athletic scorer.

Welcome to the Knicks, fans.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 30, 2019, 09:16:14 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 30, 2019, 09:09:46 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 30, 2019, 09:04:01 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on May 30, 2019, 06:07:22 PM
We’ll (hopefully) have Trier being Trier. We have a nice palette of young guards who don’t come with a 12+ million dollar cap hold. Mudiay can fall on his ass for some other team, economics in the league being what it is.

Jeffries is not a very good comp for Clarke. JJ is much bigger at 6’11 and 240. Both are guys you’d dare to shoot. Clarke just rebuilt his shooting form over the last 2 years at Gonzaga and may claw his way to decent. What he has is quickness, instincts, awareness, and athleticism.

I think there are better prospects if we manage to nab another pick.  I don't necessarily think it has to be a Top 15 pick. 

Who is the Clarke comp?

Jordan Bell, says NBAdraft.net



Okay.


Quote
And then, with a top 3 pick, we allow the PG we need to go between 4 and 6 while we take the athletic scorer.

Welcome to the Knicks, fans.


Darius Garland?
Title: O Canada
Post by: carlos123 on May 30, 2019, 09:17:03 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 30, 2019, 09:02:05 PM
Raptors (a one point favorite) had better not lose tonight. I predict overtime or a close final.

If TOR loses tonight it's a sweep waiting to happen.

If they win, they still probably lose the next four. 

I've been wrong before.  Hope to be wrong again as i don't want Golden State to win.

"KP in NYC will be as welcome as Enes in Ankara"  Recep and Kam(s)ter

Ok, just for you ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8Sw6ScUmnk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8Sw6ScUmnk)

O Canada!
Our home and native land
True patriot love
In all our sons command
With glowing hearts
We see thee rise
The True North, strong and free
From far and wide
O Canada
We stand on guard for thee
God keep our land
Glorious and free
O Canada we stand on guard for thee!
O Canada we stand on guard for thee!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8Sw6ScUmnk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8Sw6ScUmnk)
Title: Phuck Van Gundy
Post by: carlos123 on May 30, 2019, 09:21:16 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 30, 2019, 09:09:46 PM

Re:  the PG position

All these years...... wantimg and needing.......

We lose out on one by one slot because of Don Fucking Nelson


Knicks shoulda never fired Don Great Coach Nelson.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 30, 2019, 09:39:16 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 30, 2019, 05:34:31 PM
“He’s not a bad shooter — he’s a bad finisher,’’ Jared Jeffries said. “That’s why his field-goal percentage is a big focus. If he becomes a better finisher — something very possible — his whole game transforms. Take out his layups, he’s not a bad shooter.

I believe this to be true because if anybody would know a bad finisher it would be Jared Jeffries, who was one of the worst finishers I ever saw.

Still cringe at the memories.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 30, 2019, 11:14:41 PM
Darius Garland.

Or White if we liked him better.

Garland and Dotson works.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 30, 2019, 11:30:28 PM
Kam is right.  Even in winning Raptors dont look too good.

Could lose next 4.








heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 30, 2019, 11:32:19 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 30, 2019, 11:14:41 PM
Darius Garland.

Or White if we liked him better.

Garland and Dotson works.

Though I am thinking KD would rather play with Mudiay.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 31, 2019, 12:06:56 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 30, 2019, 11:30:28 PM
Kam is right.  Even in winning Raptors dont look too good.

Could lose next 4.








heh

Nobody made a prediction so nobody can talk.
Title: Heh
Post by: carlos123 on May 31, 2019, 03:41:59 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 31, 2019, 12:06:56 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 30, 2019, 11:30:28 PM
Kam is right.  Even in winning Raptors dont look too good.

Could lose next 4.






heh

Nobody made a prediction so nobody can talk.

Chico can always talk.
Title: Re: TOMAS SATORANSKY
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 31, 2019, 03:59:28 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 28, 2019, 02:32:35 PM
We need this guy.  Not Mario.

Sato is wonderful! Catch is he'll make at least triple in both annual salary and years than Mario. Not really much of a comparison.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 31, 2019, 03:59:41 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on May 30, 2019, 04:11:19 PM
I think Clarke is far more athletic than Jeffries and will be a considerably better pro than Hachimura.

Bang on.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 31, 2019, 04:19:04 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 30, 2019, 09:09:46 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 30, 2019, 09:04:01 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on May 30, 2019, 06:07:22 PM
We’ll (hopefully) have Trier being Trier. We have a nice palette of young guards who don’t come with a 12+ million dollar cap hold. Mudiay can fall on his ass for some other team, economics in the league being what it is.

Jeffries is not a very good comp for Clarke. JJ is much bigger at 6’11 and 240. Both are guys you’d dare to shoot. Clarke just rebuilt his shooting form over the last 2 years at Gonzaga and may claw his way to decent. What he has is quickness, instincts, awareness, and athleticism.

I think there are better prospects if we manage to nab another pick.  I don't necessarily think it has to be a Top 15 pick. 

Who is the Clarke comp?

Jordan Bell, says NBAdraft.net




I think nbadraft.net is mostly a garbage website (a month ago they had Hachimura going 5th, Fernando going 7th, which is ridiculous. They just throw random stuff up). But Jordan Bell is a good comp if you're not terrible excited about Clarke - I expect Clarke to be way more dangerous facing up than Bell (who is largely ignored). Clarke was a point guard in AAU but will be a small-ball 5 in the NBA.  I'd say Bell is Clarke's floor.

Clarke is kinda small for a 4 (Montrezl Harrell / Kenyon Martin height and in some respects game), and with historically small reach for a lottery PF. On the other hand, his athleticism is off the charts. He's older than most GMs want for a player who is this raw. On the other hand, he has shown clear improvement the last two years. There are questions if he'll end up being an MKG/Roberson/Jordan Bell type liability on the offensive end. On the other hand, he has better touch than those guys and you take him with the 10th-15th pick in the hopes that they secretly have Paul Millsap or Pascal Siakam somewhere in there, something just needs to be unlocked. Especially after seeing the impact Montrezl has had this year (let alone the other two guys I just mentioned), I think Clarke is worth a lottery pick. There's a good chance that he doesn't go lottery because of wrong-headed concerns about his age.

Mostly, he's good enough I'm worried the Celtics get him at 14. Hopefully he goes before then.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 31, 2019, 05:31:26 PM
Well, no....

Hachimura and Fernando early on were that well thought of

And many analysts feel much can happen between about 6 and 24 - its all very even.

read:  nobody knows who will go where

So.....

what do we think about the hypothetical of dealing #3 for 8 and 10?

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 31, 2019, 06:22:33 PM
http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/info/rookie_scale/2020 (http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/info/rookie_scale/2020)

8 + 10 is 7.5 mil in salary this year. 3 is 6.5 mil.

If we could grab Hunter and Clarke at 8 & 10, I’d consider it.
Title: Knicks FO
Post by: carlos123 on May 31, 2019, 07:45:55 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on May 31, 2019, 06:22:33 PM
http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/info/rookie_scale/2020 (http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/info/rookie_scale/2020)

8 + 10 is 7.5 mil in salary this year. 3 is 6.5 mil.

If we could grab Hunter and Clarke at 8 & 10, I’d consider it.

Reading this kind of ish makes me think Knicks have a good FO. I mean, I guess they won’t do it.

Fac, if you were Nola’s GM, would you trade 1 for 3 and a second rounder?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 31, 2019, 08:10:31 PM
Garland

Strengths

- High-level pull-up shooter with deep range who can get to his shot at will out of pick-and-roll or isolations thanks to his ball-on-a-string handle and polished footwork. Creates space with step-back jumpers in either direction. Live feet with quick-twitch athleticism. Comfortable shooting off the catch as well, sprinting off screens or hopping into 3s out of handoffs. Allows for more lineup versatility with his ability to play off the ball offensively. Clean, simple mechanics with a quick release.

- Plays off the threat of his jumper to get into the lane. Shifty ball handler. Good feel for when and how to change speeds and directions. Tough to keep in front in the half court. Not a great finisher yet but shows potential with floaters and creative scoops. Has passing instincts when he breaks down the defense. Has shown he can hit the roll man or find shooters after the defense collapses.

- Competitive with strong intangibles. Has the quickness and instincts to develop into a solid one-position defender as his frame fills out.

Improvement areas

- Still evolving as a facilitator. A little too trigger-happy from 3 at times. Although he had little help, finished his freshman season with 13 assists and 15 turnovers in 139 minutes. Scoring is ahead of his passing right now.

- Struggles to finish in traffic against length and contact. Not a physically imposing prospect or a threat to go up and finish above the rim. Has to rely on finesse and creativity, of which he's shown glimpses.

- Lacks a degree of defensive upside. Quick hands and feet but might struggle early in his career against more powerful guards. How will he hold up against switches? Coming off an MCL injury that sidelined him for most of his freshman campaign.


http://www.espn.com/nba/draft/bestavailable


Title: Re: Knicks FO
Post by: facilitatorn on May 31, 2019, 08:44:17 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 31, 2019, 07:45:55 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on May 31, 2019, 06:22:33 PM
http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/info/rookie_scale/2020 (http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/info/rookie_scale/2020)

8 + 10 is 7.5 mil in salary this year. 3 is 6.5 mil.

If we could grab Hunter and Clarke at 8 & 10, I’d consider it.

Reading this kind of ish makes me think Knicks have a good FO. I mean, I guess they won’t do it.

Fac, if you were Nola’s GM, would you trade 1 for 3 and a second rounder?

Hell no. If you have 1 you take Zion.

RJ refused a workout with Memphis. I have a feeling they take him anyway. You can’t trade Ja to the hawks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 31, 2019, 08:48:01 PM
Drafting Zion takes their ticket sales out of the equation when the Pels figure out what to do with Davis. I don’t think you could get the 1 this year for the 2 and 4 picks much less 3 and a second rounder.
Title: No silly trades
Post by: carlos123 on May 31, 2019, 10:03:15 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on May 31, 2019, 08:48:01 PM
Drafting Zion takes their ticket sales out of the equation when the Pels figure out what to do with Davis. I don’t think you could get the 1 this year for the 2 and 4 picks much less 3 and a second rounder.

Ok, good boy, you don't trade 3 for 8 and 10 for the same reason you don't trade 1 for 2 and 4, or for 3 and a second rounder to make it even more absurd.

You guys are making me nervous with all of your fantasy/nightmare trades.

Oh, and while we're at it, phuck Nola and their AD sweepstakes! They're out to clean somebody's clock.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 01, 2019, 01:03:12 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 31, 2019, 05:31:26 PM
Well, no....

Hachimura and Fernando early on were that well thought of

And many analysts feel much can happen between about 6 and 24 - its all very even.

read:  nobody knows who will go where

So.....

what do we think about the hypothetical of dealing #3 for 8 and 10?

No serious site had Hachimura and Fernando that high. Not one. Only nbadraft.net, which is not worth taking seriously. And they had this during the tournament, after both players showed themselves to be far too limited for such consideration.

I prefer RJ to what will be at 8/10 (setting aside that such a deal is an inconvenience cap wise and makes it more difficult to sign two max players). In all likelihood, there are going to be two players available at that point whose joint value exceed that of RJ but in a draft like this it's awfully risky to know who those players are. In hindsight, it's going to be really, really easy to say Player X and Player Y were available, I told you we should have traded down! But in actuality, it's difficult to know those players are, especially the farther you go down the lottery (ie it was easier for Atlanta since they only went down two picks).

Plus I really like RJ.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 01, 2019, 06:12:34 AM
Quiz!

Which players hold the record for most points against another active franchise? I've listed the number of players and in brackets the decade where they would have done their most damage.

1.  (60s)
2.  (80s)
3.  (80s)
4.  (80s/90s)
5.  (00s)
6.  (10s)
7.  (10s)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on June 01, 2019, 08:48:02 AM
The new NBA places big value on outside shooters over athletic brick throwers. Knix are last in FG% again. 28th in 3pt%.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 01, 2019, 01:15:19 PM
One of the reasons to consider GARLAND.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 01, 2019, 01:16:39 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on May 31, 2019, 03:59:41 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on May 30, 2019, 04:11:19 PM
I think Clarke is far more athletic than Jeffries and will be a considerably better pro than Hachimura.

Bang on.

Heh

we'll see

(In no way being anti-Clarke)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 01, 2019, 01:20:24 PM
59/42/74% for Hachimura this year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 01, 2019, 02:57:14 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 01, 2019, 01:20:24 PM
59/42/74% for Hachimura this year.

He got college numbers. But he's almost certainly too one dimensional to stay on an NBA court right now for long enough to get those numbers- he hasn't shown he can defend or pass worth a lick, and he will probably struggle out of the gate scoring against NBA-level athleticism. Will he develop enough over time to become a rotation player in a couple of years? I wouldn't waste a top-10 pick to find out.

I think he's a good value pick in the 20s.

I've seen him play in person, btw.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 01, 2019, 03:13:09 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on June 01, 2019, 02:57:14 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 01, 2019, 01:20:24 PM
59/42/74% for Hachimura this year.

He got college numbers. But he's almost certainly too one dimensional to stay on an NBA court right now for long enough to get those numbers- he hasn't shown he can defend or pass worth a lick, and he will probably struggle out of the gate scoring against NBA-level athleticism. Will he develop enough over time to become a rotation player in a couple of years? I wouldn't waste a top-10 pick to find out.

I think he's a good value pick in the 20s.

I've seen him play in person, btw.

The definition of a Kiid player. You only make Kiid love him more.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 01, 2019, 10:43:12 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on June 01, 2019, 02:57:14 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 01, 2019, 01:20:24 PM
59/42/74% for Hachimura this year.

He got college numbers. But he's almost certainly too one dimensional to stay on an NBA court right now for long enough to get those numbers- he hasn't shown he can defend or pass worth a lick, and he will probably struggle out of the gate scoring against NBA-level athleticism. Will he develop enough over time to become a rotation player in a couple of years? I wouldn't waste a top-10 pick to find out.

I think he's a good value pick in the 20s.

I've seen him play in person, btw.

You need to stop.  Such inaccuracy. Mo'n Dieu'
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 01, 2019, 11:10:18 PM
Too late. He’s smitten.
Title: Ta gueule
Post by: carlos123 on June 02, 2019, 02:17:25 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 01, 2019, 10:43:12 PM

You need to stop.  Such inaccuracy. Mo'n Dieu'

Chico, si ne sais pas écrire, c’est mieux que tu fermes ta gueule. Merci.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 02, 2019, 09:46:04 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on June 01, 2019, 02:57:14 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 01, 2019, 01:20:24 PM
59/42/74% for Hachimura this year.

He got college numbers.
  What?
Quote
But he's almost certainly too one dimensional to stay on an NBA court right now for long enough to get those numbers-
  20 ppg as a rookie?  59% FG?  Yeah - good call
Quote
he hasn't shown he can defend or pass worth a lick
  idiotic
Quote
and he will probably struggle out of the gate scoring against NBA-level athleticism
not sure what struggle to score means in your mind - but sure -
Quote
Will he develop enough over time to become a rotation player in a couple of years? I wouldn't waste a top-10 pick to find out.
we have the 3.  if yiou are speaking for teams 8-10, they thank you for your input
Quote

I think he's a good value pick in the 20s.
  minimally

Quote
I've seen him play in person, btw.
Money well spent, i am sure.  Cool team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 02, 2019, 12:17:35 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on June 01, 2019, 01:03:12 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 31, 2019, 05:31:26 PM
Well, no....

Hachimura and Fernando early on were that well thought of

And many analysts feel much can happen between about 6 and 24 - its all very even.

read:  nobody knows who will go where

So.....

what do we think about the hypothetical of dealing #3 for 8 and 10?

No serious site had Hachimura and Fernando that high. Not one. Only nbadraft.net, which is not worth taking seriously. And they had this during the tournament, after both players showed themselves to be far too limited for such consideration.

I prefer RJ to what will be at 8/10 (setting aside that such a deal is an inconvenience cap wise and makes it more difficult to sign two max players). In all likelihood, there are going to be two players available at that point whose joint value exceed that of RJ but in a draft like this it's awfully risky to know who those players are. In hindsight, it's going to be really, really easy to say Player X and Player Y were available, I told you we should have traded down! But in actuality, it's difficult to know those players are, especially the farther you go down the lottery (ie it was easier for Atlanta since they only went down two picks).

Plus I really like RJ.

Well. I am sure we will get to some type of informal polling here

At 3 I would take ________ or I would trade down.

Post draft - At 8 and 10, given who was available at the time, I would have taken ____________

Sort of like the Jordan Hill year.  And last year.  And when we drafted Frankie.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 02, 2019, 03:44:15 PM
No wager tonight

Warriors getting 2 points. 

For series the odds are now down to Warriors -140, Raptors +120
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 02, 2019, 09:06:42 PM
Jerebko sucks ass
Cousins hurts more than he helps
Curry predictably comes up lame in another finals
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 02, 2019, 10:50:29 PM
Man Toronto blew a golden opportunity tonight.  Warriors were playing the back of the bench.
Title: Warriors Wounded - Game 3 not a lock
Post by: Kam on June 03, 2019, 12:15:16 AM
No KD, No Klay?  No bueno.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 03, 2019, 12:38:25 AM
I think Cousins deserves some credit.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 03, 2019, 12:07:33 PM
Quote from: Kam on June 02, 2019, 10:50:29 PM
Man Toronto blew a golden opportunity tonight.  Warriors were playing the back of the bench.

Shows that it is the system

And that Jackson had the right coach in mind.

Curry FIFTH in assists among the starters last night.  Pretty cool.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 03, 2019, 12:08:31 PM
If you get a chance to see the Ron Artest Story on Showtime - highly recommended.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 03, 2019, 01:37:25 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 02, 2019, 09:46:04 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on June 01, 2019, 02:57:14 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 01, 2019, 01:20:24 PM
59/42/74% for Hachimura this year.

He got college numbers.
  What?
Quote
But he's almost certainly too one dimensional to stay on an NBA court right now for long enough to get those numbers-
  20 ppg as a rookie?  59% FG?  Yeah - good call
Quote
he hasn't shown he can defend or pass worth a lick
  idiotic
Quote
and he will probably struggle out of the gate scoring against NBA-level athleticism
not sure what struggle to score means in your mind - but sure -
Quote
Will he develop enough over time to become a rotation player in a couple of years? I wouldn't waste a top-10 pick to find out.
we have the 3.  if yiou are speaking for teams 8-10, they thank you for your input
Quote

I think he's a good value pick in the 20s.
  minimally

Quote
I've seen him play in person, btw.
Money well spent, i am sure.  Cool team.

Appreciate the line-by-line breakdown. He's a fun player, it would be great to be wrong. But I'm not touching him with a top-10 pick, and, as Yankguy said, he's not the first Zag I take.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 03, 2019, 02:28:41 PM
Although I like the idea of a Bol Bol on the roster, I'd be considering Hachimura starting at #7, right after White, Culver and the Vandy kid.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 03, 2019, 03:40:32 PM
I'd be terrified drafting Bol Bol.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 03, 2019, 03:56:54 PM
Seen on Twitter -

DSJ for the 6th pick.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 03, 2019, 04:18:09 PM
I don’t see anything DJS does that we can’t get from Trier and Allen. Clarke or Hunter should be available at six. I’m game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on June 03, 2019, 09:44:46 PM
This idea that Klay is coming back and we need an MRI to tell us he is out for the series is rather hilarious to me.
Other sports, or situations, a player pulls up with a hamstring injury there isn't even a question about if they come back.

Out a few weeks guaranteed. Okay, they're calling it "tightness." I'm not so familiar with this injury. Sounds like complete propaganda and/or wishful thinking from Klay. Even Kerr suggests this:

Quote
“Klay said he'll be fine, but Klay could be half dead and he would say he would be fine,” Warriors coach Steve Kerr said. “We'll see. He pulled his hamstring. He thinks it is minor, so I don't know what that means going forward.”

A hamstring injury is not a twisted ankle. You can't really play through that as far as I gather, but maybe it was VERY mild. Even so, that's going to be something you can be effective playing with at this level? This is basketball not bowling. Folks are out of their minds expecting him to return.

It's "The Finals" so players do whatever they can to find a way to play. I get it.

Yet, he is also a free agent. Actually, this is probably part of the motivation. He's probably planning to get injections (obviously what will happen) over a few games in a row, but the long term impact in his health other teams should take note.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 03, 2019, 10:00:35 PM
I expect both Thompson and Durant to try in Game 5 - if it is not three games to 1, GS.

Unless as I initially suspected Durant is long gone (not returning) and they just do not wish to say so.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 03, 2019, 10:19:22 PM
Looney out with fractured collarbone.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 03, 2019, 10:55:23 PM
Slap a foam pillow around his neck and wheel him out there!  Ain't time for no malingerin!
Title: The best player left in the series
Post by: Kam on June 03, 2019, 11:00:41 PM
Is Curry.  If he has a Curry type game in Oracle arena there is no more incendiary weapon.  Make all the two point buckets you like because Steph is out here raining threes.   

But Steph has never been a finals MVP.   Tying his finals fortune to Andre Igoudala and Durant has worked out ok so far.

Kawhi is clearly hobbled.   But does Nurse switch him onto Curry with nothing to lose?

Game 3 winner is the likely series winner in this one.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 03, 2019, 11:09:26 PM
Kawhi guards the pick guy.  Then he can switch to Curry on the PNR.

No sense changing that plan because your offense didnt work in Game 2.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 03, 2019, 11:28:12 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 03, 2019, 03:56:54 PM
Seen on Twitter -

DSJ for the 6th pick.

I need a flowchart for this.

Are we getting Kyrie/Kemba? If not, I'd prefer DSJ.

If so, we want to trade DSJ. But are we trading for Anthony Davis? If not, I'd first explore what DSJ+Knox+Ntilikina can bring back in terms of a player more ready to contribute on the Kyrie/Durant (presuming he is also here) timeline.

If we are trading for Davis, question is if NOLA prefers DSJ or the 6th pick. I'd prefer DSJ, were I them.
Title: RJ's AAU coach
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 03, 2019, 11:36:21 PM
“He’ll go anywhere because he’s a winner,” Washington told The Athletic. “He would like to go to New York because New York has No. 3. If Atlanta had 3 and the Knicks had No. 7, he wouldn’t want to go 7. “RJ wants New York because they’re No. 3 right now. He thinks he’s getting picked third. Why would RJ want to go anywhere below No. 3? He’s a competitor. I’m sure RJ would love to go No. 1, but he knows he can’t because Zion is a unicorn and deserves everything. He’s amazing and a great kid, and I’m so happy he got to play with Zion because that might be one of the top five players he’ll ever play with in his career. Playing with Zion benefited RJ, and we would do it again tomorrow and the next day and every day after that.”
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 03, 2019, 11:39:01 PM
Well.. you could just look at

Is Coby White going to be better than Dennis Smith?

Flow charts are cool and all.....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 03, 2019, 11:45:14 PM
https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/wizards/2019-nba-draft-big-board-70-defining-uncs-coby-white-role-wizards-fit

Coby White assessment and big board from NBC Sports
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 03, 2019, 11:52:12 PM
Re:  Barrett -

There IS a New York connection other than - "hey, they have the #3"

Knicks meeting with him this week

Could Ja drop after the surgery?

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 04, 2019, 06:33:31 AM
I do worry that Memphis winds up liking Barrett better than Ja. I know I do.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 04, 2019, 09:41:11 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 04, 2019, 06:33:31 AM
I do worry that Memphis winds up liking Barrett better than Ja. I know I do.

Nothing we can really control as i don't want to give up something just to move one spot.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 04, 2019, 12:06:39 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 03, 2019, 11:39:01 PM
Well.. you could just look at

Is Coby White going to be better than Dennis Smith?

Flow charts are cool and all.....

As of today I think I'd be more comfortable rolling with DSJ than Coby White.
Title: Every Finals EVER has had a Knicks player
Post by: Kam on June 04, 2019, 04:20:56 PM
This year it is Jeremy Lin.

Challenge:  Name the others
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 04, 2019, 04:26:13 PM
JRSmuff with the Cleves vs Dubs
DLee with the Warriors vs Cleves
Tyson with the Mavs vs MIA
Billups with Detroit vs San An  and vs LA
Nate with the Celtics vs Lakers
Bill Cartwright and Pete Meyers with the Bulls vs everybody

i need some assistance with the rest

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 04, 2019, 08:27:49 PM
Maurice Lucas.

Marvin Webster
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 04, 2019, 08:28:32 PM
Butch Beard
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 05, 2019, 12:35:17 AM
OK here is a more detailed list

Jeremy Lin and the Raptors in 2019 vs GS
JRSmith and the Cavs 2017-2018 vs GS
CFrye and Mozgov and Shumpert and JR Smith with the Cavs in 2016 vs GS
DLEE with GS in 2015 vs Cavs
Toney Douglass on the 2014 Heat vs Cavs
TMac with the Spurs in 2013 vs Cavs
Cole Aldrich on the 2012 OKC Thunder vs Heat
Tyson with the 2011 Mavs vs Heat
Sasha Vujacic's and Lakers in 2008 joined by Trevor Ariza in 2009 and Metta World Peace in 2010
Beno Udrih on 2007 Spurs vs Heat
Michael Doleac vs Keith van Horn in 2006 Heat vs Mavs
Chauncey Rasheed and Nazr Mohammed in 2005 Pistons vs Spurs
Chauncey and Rasheed in 2004 Pistons vs Spurs
Jason Kidd's Nets in 2002 and 2003 vs Lakers
Dikembe Mutumbos 76 ers in 2001 vs Lakers
Jalen Rose / Glen Rice in 2000's Indiana  vs Lakers finals
The whole frikkin KNICKS squad in 1999 vs the SAS
Shandon Anderson and Howard Eisley in 1997 and 1998 Utah vs Da Bulls
David Wingate on the 1996 Seattle Supersonics vs Da Bulls
Anfernee Hardaway and the 1995 Orlando Magic vs HOU
All of the Knicks in 1994 vs HOU
Bill Cartwright 1991-1993 with Da Bulls
Gerald Henderson on the Pistons in 1990 vs Portlandia
Tony Campbell on the 1988 and 1989 Lakers vs Detroit
Greg Kite on the 1984-1987 Celtics vs Lakers mostly and Houston once
Maurice Cheeks on the 1983 76'ers squad vs Lakers
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 05, 2019, 01:08:21 AM
https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/bug827/oc_the_73year_nba_tradition_that_nobody_knows_or/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/bug827/oc_the_73year_nba_tradition_that_nobody_knows_or/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 05, 2019, 05:09:33 AM
I’m starting to think I’d rather have Brandon Clarke and Nick Claxton than RJ. If Barrett goes two, it’s very unlikely to happen.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 05, 2019, 08:29:55 AM
Naz Muhammed and Eddy Curry

heh

I was on Henderson and Shelton

Carlisle and Ariza were pretty easy if given any thought.

Cool question
Title: RJ Barrett
Post by: Kam on June 05, 2019, 12:44:08 PM
RJ was described as "Alpha Andrew Wiggins" by Kevin O'Connor.

Wiggins has all the tools but his desire is questioned.

If RJ checks the same boxes PLUS the heart of a Killer then I DO NOT HESITATE to call his name at the draft.

You have people looking at Ja's best season.  That was RJs first season.  Against other competition of high regard.   Don't get too cute.  Take the BPA.
Title: 47 for Steph Curry
Post by: Kam on June 06, 2019, 12:12:41 AM
And they still lost.  Wow. 

Klay get well soon.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 06, 2019, 05:53:19 AM
Warriors are missing a ton of D and athleticism, not to mention all the damn points. Klay, KD, and Looney are no slouches. A good coach doesn’t let his players break themselves until they are facing elimination games. Normal clearance process for game 4, then you see where you are.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 06, 2019, 09:37:39 AM
They still had Dray and Dre. But it was the rest of the team that wasn't Finals ready. Boogie included, he was a disaster.

The same crew isn't going to win G4. Klay needs to come back for the sake of a competitive series. Or, you know, KD.

ps The Warriors losing without Durant seriously increases his chances of resigning in Golden State and not coming to the Knicks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 06, 2019, 09:49:19 AM
Doesn't matter

We are getting someone.

And KDs health is going to be a concern moving forward anyway.
Title: We could strike out
Post by: Kam on June 06, 2019, 12:40:15 PM
I sincerely hope the front office is ready for such a scenario where we do not sign any long-term Free Agents except perhaps our own.

Barrett-Knox-DSJ will be fun to watch.
Title: Re: We could strike out
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 06, 2019, 11:54:03 PM
Quote from: Kam on June 06, 2019, 12:40:15 PM
I sincerely hope the front office is ready for such a scenario where we do not sign any long-term Free Agents except perhaps our own.

Barrett-Knox-DSJ will be fun to watch.

Absolutely, although I think RJ's development would benefit if he were the second or third option as a rookie, a la Jayson Tatum.

Brooklyn traded Crabbe and two first rounders for Taurean Prince, which is a solid trade for both teams. Nets can make a much more serious play for Kyrie (lots of buzz that he's a lock to be a Net) plus Durant (or Tobias/Butler etc).

It's not good for the Knicks, at all. But I can't help but to smile at the Nets of all teams getting Kyrie for free from the Celtics.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 07, 2019, 01:56:48 AM
Depending on who is still around at 8, Atlanta’s 8,10, and 17 picks together make a more tempting package to trade #3 for.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 07, 2019, 12:56:46 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 07, 2019, 01:56:48 AM
Depending on who is still around at 8, Atlanta’s 8,10, and 17 picks together make a more tempting package to trade #3 for.

It's called a weak draft.  But if we did that trade i would draft Sekou with one of those picks.
Title: Re: We could strike out
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 07, 2019, 01:57:07 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on June 06, 2019, 11:54:03 PM
Quote from: Kam on June 06, 2019, 12:40:15 PM
I sincerely hope the front office is ready for such a scenario where we do not sign any long-term Free Agents except perhaps our own.

Barrett-Knox-DSJ will be fun to watch.

Absolutely, although I think RJ's development would benefit if he were the second or third option as a rookie, a la Jayson Tatum.

Brooklyn traded Crabbe and two first rounders for Taurean Prince, which is a solid trade for both teams. Nets can make a much more serious play for Kyrie (lots of buzz that he's a lock to be a Net) plus Durant (or Tobias/Butler etc).

It's not good for the Knicks, at all. But I can't help but to smile at the Nets of all teams getting Kyrie for free from the Celtics.

Getting Kyrie from the league pool - not really from Celtics.

Crabbe was a decent player.  But Nets did OK filling his shoes.  This does show that those late firsts aren't worth much.  Maybe we can snag one now from Hawks.
Title: I miss Chip
Post by: carlos123 on June 07, 2019, 08:55:39 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 07, 2019, 01:56:48 AM
Depending on who is still around at 8, Atlanta’s 8,10, and 17 picks together make a more tempting package to trade #3 for.

So that he would call you all out, Trader Vics.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/BOFn0ZkgrsKY6RXmr9fBVJRcNMY9mpYpPHQ2xQupfE2FZIVnhXUEHUBNJU3TxQ7d5afesP_3fSGtLMwWE-t8fSuCNvgByh1G2QcC2tzK_ZR-PHtzFPi-drrxT-zoIB6szDzldB2-cYYmyGK4fuZcAKQcuocHSm_APW7y8PgYZZjtFwYa0wA4Zke1Lfjr1SLWgbQBd9LrlNG70jX2UqiKFpjNxh48IUh9on1trShngoWSqSPIetudmyievc9kArASNPWdmKDkFhFExSQI-OP7Q26rSKgWIgRfskH1CapWOsfIB5bwTcjCDu6kucrWatnTlCpszuPO7oiNZx6KmYqyQMvrw19zx-bob8pn8_rcmNfq0_W6mIg9p_z8eWkzIzdpxRRJ2YxQ4CmbrBR7kEU4NRAHeewrWFw5gmNh_JEFLJOZjLRvidUVK8hSYka1SESnfrYW4bj8jMhgztSYkPafTdRxc1Rbm8pVduRYI1p-2eg8KgwO3Zm-FI4D5sNXpPxd4FERcMr4qtU-QOh9Vq7WpxzTbpSeIDZtUf6ADEsujitIS7dmCwrD8RdmYhMBrbp3UGVZ6i3maifCDdKCWvhviEk-rNGfmiJSo46sizS1vbUQjGPw-0-CWlnWXD7I_CQi9WQT2Hu_UDXR2pgpnJcAxGIve0X3q1U=w588-h757-no)

And, by the way, PHUCK KYRIE! Glad if he's going to the Nyets.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 07, 2019, 10:40:57 PM
Danny Green is a horror.
Title: Goldman Sachs
Post by: Kam on June 07, 2019, 11:23:32 PM
Going DOWN to the6
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 08, 2019, 12:07:07 AM
Shame Toronto's title will be tainted in the eyes of many.


Real nice team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 08, 2019, 12:15:10 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 08, 2019, 12:07:07 AM
Shame Toronto's title will be tainted in the eyes of many.


Real nice team.

I hadn't even thought of that.   I'm not sure GS injuries taint what Toronto has done.  No team is more talent-rich than GS.  They should be able to win with or without KD.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 08, 2019, 12:20:40 AM
I think I may just put a little cash on Raptors for next year, though my guess is it is no longer 25-1
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on June 08, 2019, 12:25:55 AM
Toronto, is quite simply, the better basketball team.

They just took two in the Warriors home arena, and neither game was close.
They took both games during the regular season.
They beat them by 20 at Oracle with no Leonard vs. 100 minutes of Klay, Durant and Curry.

Should they take the title, no taint whatsoever.
Title: 2 Questions
Post by: Kam on June 08, 2019, 12:31:54 AM
Does Kawhi really LEAVE a title defending team?   

Chances Toronto retains him are higher than ever IMO and yet Kawhi might still say "Mission Accomplished" and bolt for LA.

Does KD leave the Warriors if it is shown they can't win without him?

KD's "tainted titles" talk would die if indeed he returns to the Warriors and they win next year.
KD's best chance to win more titles is still GS.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 08, 2019, 03:17:20 AM
We can build organically then. Don’t we have two first rounders next year?

We make our picks, get reasonable FA’s that enhance the program, maintain some space and keep building.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 08, 2019, 01:07:49 PM
Rational thought says that we go hard after DAVIS if we strike out early in free agency and he is still available.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 08, 2019, 02:02:31 PM
I’m counting on Boston or LA out bidding us, with one gutting itself and turning NO into a rising power, a la Melo or Hershel Walker.
Title: Attaboy
Post by: carlos123 on June 08, 2019, 10:30:25 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 08, 2019, 03:17:20 AM
We can build organically then. Don’t we have two first rounders next year?

We make our picks, get reasonable FA’s that enhance the program, maintain some space and keep building.

Good, and let NO fleece Boston!

Kyrie to the Nyets, LOL!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 09, 2019, 12:06:47 AM
AINGE is on the clock!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 09, 2019, 01:37:51 AM
Ainge is a pretty damn good GM. The Kyrie trade was worth it, even if he leaves, in no small part because it helped avoid a messy situation with Isaiah Thomas.

Knicks should not trade for Davis if they don't get an all-star in free agency.
Title: Kyrie
Post by: carlos123 on June 09, 2019, 11:02:45 AM
I wasn’t trying to put Danny down. Agree he’s a damn good GM.

I just don’t think I want Kyrie on my team.
Title: Phil once said
Post by: Kam on June 09, 2019, 01:15:49 PM
If Carmelo wants to be here -  good.
If Carmelo wants to go elsewhere - also good.

Paraphrasin.


Meaning if Phil could resign him to a team-friendly deal then that was a path to winning
And if Phil couldn't resign him then the team resources (money, years, playing time) would go elsewhere

Similarly..

IF we land 2 big free agent fish and leapfrog the talent on our roster to 50-60 win plateau then great
and if we land no mega stars we can still use the team resources to slow build our squad with young guys


Agree with BIZ.... landing just ONE superstar would be pointless if we didn't have a clear path to a 2nd.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 09, 2019, 01:37:04 PM
Always a clear path.  Always good options with $$

But there are 29 other teams.  Gotta WORK

Do you like who is doing the work?  becomes the key question.  I think there may be key voices either not speaking up or simply not being heard.
Title: Re: Phil once said
Post by: carlos123 on June 09, 2019, 01:58:44 PM
Quote from: Kam on June 09, 2019, 01:15:49 PM

IF we land 2 big free agent fish and leapfrog the talent on our roster to 50-60 win plateau then great
and if we land no mega stars we can still use the team resources to slow build our squad with young guys


Agree with BIZ.... landing just ONE superstar would be pointless if we didn't have a clear path to a 2nd.

Well ... I know it ain’t gonna happen, but I wouldn’t mind having KL as my only superstar. Who are the other superstars in Toronto? Lowry, Gasol, Siakam? Very good players, yes, just not superstars.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 09, 2019, 02:47:43 PM
Raptors are not an easy model to follow. They play a 7-man rotation, and every single player goes hard and smart both ways. It's in some ways easier for the Knicks to recreate a super-team than that kind of coherence and balance.

Also, why in God's name would Kawhi come to NY? Either he goes home to SoCal or, more likely, he signs a short-term deal with Toronto to run it back again.

Durant is different - he doesn't have his own team and he seems to crave it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on June 09, 2019, 03:07:44 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on June 09, 2019, 02:47:43 PM
Raptors are not an easy model to follow. They play a 7-man rotation, and every single player goes hard and smart both ways. It's in some ways easier for the Knicks to recreate a super-team than that kind of coherence and balance.

Also, why in God's name would Kawhi come to NY? Either he goes home to SoCal or, more likely, he signs a short-term deal with Toronto to run it back again.

Durant is different - he doesn't have his own team and he seems to crave it.

Durant wants to do what sCurry never had an opportunity to do - play and win in NY. Its a subliminal trumping of Curry's accomplishments in GS.
Title: Kawhi
Post by: carlos123 on June 09, 2019, 04:30:18 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on June 09, 2019, 02:47:43 PM

Also, why in God's name would Kawhi come to NY? Either he goes home to SoCal or, more likely, he signs a short-term deal with Toronto to run it back again.


I know it ain’t gonna happen. First thing I said. My point was that you don’t need two superstars to have a super team.

Now, if Durant returns and they somehow end up winning, then he doesn’t have anything to prove anymore. More likely he moves in that situation.
Title: Re: Kawhi
Post by: FWK00 on June 09, 2019, 11:35:20 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on June 09, 2019, 04:30:18 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on June 09, 2019, 02:47:43 PM

Also, why in God's name would Kawhi come to NY? Either he goes home to SoCal or, more likely, he signs a short-term deal with Toronto to run it back again.


I know it ain’t gonna happen. First thing I said. My point was that you don’t need two superstars to have a super team.

Now, if Durant returns and they somehow end up winning, then he doesn’t have anything to prove anymore. More likely he moves in that situation.

Agreed. Chemistry and team balance are more important.
Title: Re: Kawhi
Post by: Kam on June 10, 2019, 12:45:04 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on June 09, 2019, 11:35:20 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on June 09, 2019, 04:30:18 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on June 09, 2019, 02:47:43 PM

Also, why in God's name would Kawhi come to NY? Either he goes home to SoCal or, more likely, he signs a short-term deal with Toronto to run it back again.


I know it ain’t gonna happen. First thing I said. My point was that you don’t need two superstars to have a super team.

Now, if Durant returns and they somehow end up winning, then he doesn’t have anything to prove anymore. More likely he moves in that situation.

Agreed. Chemistry and team balance are more important.

My high school alum Max has a formula.

Superstars are 5 star players
ALL stars are 4 star players
Starters are 3 star players
Rotation guys are 2 stars
etc

Kawhi is a 5 star player with championship pedigree
But Siakam is just about a 4 star player (will be one next year)
Lowry and Gasol have been and aren't too far over their past form. 3.5 stars each.
Danny Green is a 3 star guy but he has championship pedigree

That means their average starter is a 3.8

The bench has Serge Ibaka who has played in a finals so he is just about a 3 star guy

They're laden with talent.

----

Milwaukee by the way...

GIannis  ... not quite 5 stars.  Still some things missing in his repertoire.  Clutch threes.  Experience.
Middleton ... 4 stars... but you could debate Siakam or Middleton as the better 2nd option
Bledsoe   3 stars    too bad Brogdon was hurt
Lopez   3.25 stars   Milwaukee should use him more in the post and not exclusively as a three pt guy
Mirotic 3 stars
Title: Friendly wager
Post by: Kam on June 10, 2019, 09:20:14 PM
i bet my buddy 20 bucks.
he says Golden State is going to win in 7
i bet the raptors.
this is after the raptors took a commanding 3-1 lead.
I have three chances to win, he has to win all three games.

Did i make a good bet? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 10, 2019, 10:10:38 PM
GS +400 to take the title.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 10, 2019, 10:43:51 PM
Good game

Green story (6 techs) quite interesting.

Title: Re: Friendly wager
Post by: facilitatorn on June 11, 2019, 01:04:24 AM
Quote from: Kam on June 10, 2019, 09:20:14 PM
i bet my buddy 20 bucks.
he says Golden State is going to win in 7
i bet the raptors.
this is after the raptors took a commanding 3-1 lead.
I have three chances to win, he has to win all three games.

Did i make a good bet?

A great bet.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 11, 2019, 01:07:27 AM
Durant might not play next year. Heartbreak to see arguably the best player in the game hit with the worst possible injury. He'll never be the same, if it is indeed a tear (which seems to be the case). I hope it's not as bad as it looks, even if never suits up for the Knicks.

All that said, I think the Knicks should sign him. Something like 4 years $70 million. May be that no other team would be willing to go that high, give a high salary in year 1 and then have declining cap hits. Take the risk he gets back to consistent all-star level, using the first year as goodwill. Use your cap space this year to accumulate picks (ie the Atlanta Hawks). Forget trading assets for Davis, don't spend money on borderline all-stars that function best as second or third options, and don't pay Kemba given what that contract might look like in three years. Build around RJ/DSJ/Mitch/Knox et al. Re-sign Vonleh and Mudiay,  see if DeAndre comes back on a one-year deal and if you cannot get some other professionals so the team is at least a bit more competitive. There are kids worth watching, team will have cap space for at least a max, plus a returning Durant, a lottery pick in a good draft and a bevy of recent lottery picks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Not Elephant on June 11, 2019, 01:08:34 AM
Durant's new injury does not bode well for the hopes that he's coming to New York.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 11, 2019, 05:11:59 AM
Can't Durant simply opt in for $31M with GS?

Seems the most likely move/non-move.

Been on vacation, haven't seen a minute of the Finals . . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 11, 2019, 06:09:12 AM
I'm not a draftnik.
But I'd be interested to hear why Barrett is better than De'Andre Hunter, who sounds like a terrific out-of-the-box 3&D wing. 

Haven't seen either of them, but a 42% 3-point shooter who defends well, sounds preferable to a 31% outside shooter with questionable D.  Especially with the latter coming off an injury.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 11, 2019, 09:32:53 AM
"He'll never be the same"

No telling

Achilles tendon can actually come back stronger. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 11, 2019, 09:34:49 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on June 11, 2019, 06:09:12 AM
I'm not a draftnik.
But I'd be interested to hear why Barrett is better than
De'Andre Hunter, who sounds like a terrific out-of-the-box 3&D wing. 

Haven't seen either of them, but a 42% 3-point shooter who defends well, sounds preferable to a 31% outside shooter with questionable D.  Especially with the latter coming off an injury.

Barrett goes to the rack and runs the floor very well.  Are you trading down or taking Hunter at 3?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 11, 2019, 09:36:44 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on June 11, 2019, 05:11:59 AM
Can't Durant simply opt in for $31M with GS?



Yes

This is also a path for them to keep him long term.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: NeedsAdjustments on June 11, 2019, 10:08:18 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on June 11, 2019, 01:07:27 AM
Build around RJ/DSJ/Mitch/Knox et al. Re-sign Vonleh and Mudiay,  see if DeAndre comes back on a one-year deal and if you cannot get some other professionals so the team is at least a bit more competitive. There are kids worth watching, team will have cap space for at least a max, plus a returning Durant, a lottery pick in a good draft and a bevy of recent lottery picks.

Why did the Knicks trade Kristaps Porzingis for bupkis again?

As if the Antonio Davis trade talks haven't already made the stupidity of that move clear.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 11, 2019, 10:45:42 AM
Well.....

what are the positives of the deal?

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 11, 2019, 11:04:38 AM
What if Memphis says they will take Barrett but are willing to deal down to 3?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 11, 2019, 11:15:15 AM
Hunter props in this Suns piece

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jefffeld/2019/06/09/phoenix-suns-nba-draft-preview-deandre-hunter-cam-reddish-among-wing-help-at-no-6/#5ae959061ab5
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 11, 2019, 11:43:05 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 11, 2019, 09:34:49 AM
Barrett goes to the rack and runs the floor very well.  Are you trading down or taking Hunter at 3?

I haven't seen any of these guys play ... even in highlight clips.

I'll try to check out Morant, Barrett and Hunter.
Just from what I'm reading a talented PG or a fearsome 3&D wing sounds better than Barrett.  Though what I wrote above seems to be the consensus order for them.  Hunter sounds like more of a certainty.  But I'll need to see RJ and the others before I know what's going on . . .

If Knix braintrust likes Hunter better than Barrett and can extract something for passing on Barrett, then great.  Though unlikely.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: NeedsAdjustments on June 11, 2019, 12:04:29 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 11, 2019, 10:45:42 AM
Well.....

what are the positives of the deal?

That's a great question.  What are they?

At the time, consensus here seemed to be it was a great deal if we got KD, a bad one if we didn't.  So with the injury to KD, seems relevant to bring the deal up again.

To me:  looked stupid at the time, continued to look stupid after Antonio Davis talks, looks stupid now. 

If you see positives, let alone a net positive, lets hear them.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on June 11, 2019, 12:05:33 PM
sucks about Durant.

at his age he may never be the same player again.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 11, 2019, 12:33:05 PM
I am with you on the PG.

So, you now see Knox as a 4?  Trade bait?  6th man?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 11, 2019, 12:40:07 PM
Quote from: NeedsAdjustments on June 11, 2019, 10:08:18 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on June 11, 2019, 01:07:27 AM
Build around RJ/DSJ/Mitch/Knox et al. Re-sign Vonleh and Mudiay,  see if DeAndre comes back on a one-year deal and if you cannot get some other professionals so the team is at least a bit more competitive. There are kids worth watching, team will have cap space for at least a max, plus a returning Durant, a lottery pick in a good draft and a bevy of recent lottery picks.

Why did the Knicks trade Kristaps Porzingis for bupkis again?

As if the Antonio Davis trade talks haven't already made the stupidity of that move clear.

We offered KP
NO wasnt interested
Title: Circumstances Change
Post by: Kam on June 11, 2019, 12:44:40 PM
You have to roll with it.


Knicks offseason plan

Sign max contracts for KD and a friend
Draft ZION
Sign no max contracts
Draft RJ Barrett
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 11, 2019, 12:46:06 PM
Quote from: NeedsAdjustments on June 11, 2019, 12:04:29 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 11, 2019, 10:45:42 AM
Well.....

what are the positives of the deal?

That's a great question.  What are they?

At the time, consensus here seemed to be it was a great deal if we got KD, a bad one if we didn't.  So with the injury to KD, seems relevant to bring the deal up again.

To me:  looked stupid at the time, continued to look stupid after Antonio Davis talks, looks stupid now. 

If you see positives, let alone a net positive, lets hear them.

So you like a team with KP as the main cog?
Title: KP is old news
Post by: Kam on June 11, 2019, 12:48:23 PM
Why mention him.  He was moved for multiple reasons.  Not the lease of which, he/janis is a douchebag.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 11, 2019, 12:51:14 PM
Needs has a Uni-crush.

Title: What we all know will happen
Post by: Kam on June 11, 2019, 12:52:12 PM
Knicks will draft Barrett.   Unless Memphis does... then Knicks will draft Morant.


Everyone here will talk up Culver, Hunter, Garland, and others.


Barrett will have a very long career.


One of the guys drafted after him MIGHT have a better career


The forumite who mentions these other guys the most will get to pound his chest the most in the ensuing years.



It's easy to be contrarian.


But for YEARS people have been looking at RJ as the #1 guy,


Now on the basis of one NCAA tournament opinions are changing?


OKRRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrr......     ::)


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 11, 2019, 12:55:52 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 11, 2019, 12:51:14 PM
Needs has a Uni-crush.

Well he is right to be worried.   Perry/Mills career was staked on the KP trade.   
Now they may make a panic-move to justify the trade.


That IS A BIG concern because they're expected to do something. 

Our leverage is gone.

Everything sucks today.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: AdeTheOba on June 11, 2019, 02:38:20 PM
Quote from: Kam on June 11, 2019, 12:55:52 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 11, 2019, 12:51:14 PM
Needs has a Uni-crush.

Well he is right to be worried.   Perry/Mills career was staked on the KP trade.   
Now they may make a panic-move to justify the trade.


That IS A BIG concern because they're expected to do something. 

Our leverage is gone.

Everything sucks today.
[/quote]
2 seasons from now, we could get as free agents both Davis (assuming he does not extend if traded-recent word is NYC and LA are his preferred destinations) and Durant (assuming he takes the GS option).


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 11, 2019, 03:42:33 PM
Quote from: AdeTheOba on June 11, 2019, 02:38:20 PM
Quote from: Kam on June 11, 2019, 12:55:52 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 11, 2019, 12:51:14 PM
Needs has a Uni-crush.

Well he is right to be worried.   Perry/Mills career was staked on the KP trade.   
Now they may make a panic-move to justify the trade.


That IS A BIG concern because they're expected to do something. 

Our leverage is gone.

Everything sucks today.
Quote
2 seasons from now, we could get as free agents both Davis (assuming he does not extend if traded-recent word is NYC and LA are his preferred destinations) and Durant (assuming he takes the GS option).

OK.   That is all well and good.  But then we wouldn't have had to trade KP to dump our bad contracts since two seasons hence they would have just slid off the cap naturally.  Thereby allowing us to trade KP for more picks or more genuine players and less about dumping deals.

And also 2 seasons from now i think we are still paying Noah the extra 6 million from his stretch which in hindsight was also unnecessary.

To be a knick fan is to suffer.
Title: ANTHONY DAVIS
Post by: Kam on June 11, 2019, 04:05:33 PM
Perry Mills will trade the #3 pick, a future Dallas first round pick, as well as our most recent picks Knox, Ntilikina, and Robinson in a bid for AD.

Maybe more.   The entire farm probably.

Then waste another year or two and wait out Giannis.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on June 11, 2019, 04:14:19 PM
Wasn't one of Davis' issues in New Orleans the idea that his team wasn't doing much to improve itself (an issue I thought he was wrong about it, since I think they have decent enough talent)?  Now that Zion has fallen into their laps, isn't it possible that he would no longer want out?  Or did he burn his bridges?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: NeedsAdjustments on June 11, 2019, 04:19:25 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 11, 2019, 12:46:06 PM
Quote from: NeedsAdjustments on June 11, 2019, 12:04:29 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 11, 2019, 10:45:42 AM
Well.....

what are the positives of the deal?

That's a great question.  What are they?

At the time, consensus here seemed to be it was a great deal if we got KD, a bad one if we didn't.  So with the injury to KD, seems relevant to bring the deal up again.

To me:  looked stupid at the time, continued to look stupid after Antonio Davis talks, looks stupid now. 

If you see positives, let alone a net positive, lets hear them.

So you like a team with KP as the main cog?

One of.  Sure.  Just like Dallas does now, after celebrating for getting an All-Star for almost nothing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: NeedsAdjustments on June 11, 2019, 04:20:16 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 11, 2019, 12:51:14 PM
Needs has a Uni-crush.

Beyond idiocy for a team to trade a young franchise-defining star for cap space.  Beyond. 

Now the guy they were supposedly clearing cap space isn't coming/won't ever be the same player.

No more "needs" be said.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: NeedsAdjustments on June 11, 2019, 04:22:17 PM
Quote from: Kam on June 11, 2019, 12:40:07 PM
Quote from: NeedsAdjustments on June 11, 2019, 10:08:18 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on June 11, 2019, 01:07:27 AM
Build around RJ/DSJ/Mitch/Knox et al. Re-sign Vonleh and Mudiay,  see if DeAndre comes back on a one-year deal and if you cannot get some other professionals so the team is at least a bit more competitive. There are kids worth watching, team will have cap space for at least a max, plus a returning Durant, a lottery pick in a good draft and a bevy of recent lottery picks.

Why did the Knicks trade Kristaps Porzingis for bupkis again?

As if the Antonio Davis trade talks haven't already made the stupidity of that move clear.

We offered KP
NO wasnt interested

Now they would be.

Circumstances change.
Title: Re: KP is old news
Post by: NeedsAdjustments on June 11, 2019, 04:26:59 PM
Quote from: Kam on June 11, 2019, 12:48:23 PM
Why mention him.  He was moved for multiple reasons.  Not the lease of which, he/janis is a douchebag.

You aren't a team with strong enough management and tradition to handle a moody star and his entourage (though funny how we didn't hear about that until after the trade) then trade him.

But trade him for pocket lint and a prayer? 

That's uniquely Knicks.  The worst franchise in sports.
Title: Re: KP is old news
Post by: Yankguy1 on June 11, 2019, 04:36:04 PM
Quote from: NeedsAdjustments on June 11, 2019, 04:26:59 PM
Quote from: Kam on June 11, 2019, 12:48:23 PM
Why mention him.  He was moved for multiple reasons.  Not the lease of which, he/janis is a douchebag.

You aren't a team with strong enough management and tradition to handle a moody star and his entourage (though funny how we didn't hear about that until after the trade) then trade him.

But trade him for pocket lint and a prayer? 

That's uniquely Knicks.  The worst franchise in sports.
Also such discussions proceed with the Washington Redskins. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 11, 2019, 05:28:04 PM
Quote from: Kam on June 11, 2019, 12:55:52 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 11, 2019, 12:51:14 PM
Needs has a Uni-crush.

Well he is right to be worried.   Perry/Mills career was staked on the KP trade.   
Now they may make a panic-move to justify the trade.


That IS A BIG concern because they're expected to do something. 

Our leverage is gone.

Everything sucks today.

The "everything sucks" feeling you are getting is due to Frank, KK and Smith, supposed building blocks.  If they were better, with all our cash and picks, no need to be queasy
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 11, 2019, 06:42:21 PM
Not having to watch Kanter, Mudiay, or Timmy in Knicks colors again is already great progress.

I’m down with adding Barrett and watching the kids grow.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 11, 2019, 07:28:23 PM
Yep.

Radio talk today of still signing KD long term and taking the down year as a means of getting the high pick in the strong 2020 draft


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on June 11, 2019, 11:10:10 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 11, 2019, 07:28:23 PM
Yep.

Radio talk today of still signing KD long term and taking the down year as a means of getting the high pick in the strong 2020 draft

Not this shit again.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on June 11, 2019, 11:14:40 PM
Quote from: NeedsAdjustments on June 11, 2019, 04:20:16 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 11, 2019, 12:51:14 PM
Needs has a Uni-crush.

Beyond idiocy for a team to trade a young franchise-defining star for cap space.  Beyond. 

Now the guy they were supposedly clearing cap space isn't coming/won't ever be the same player.

No more "needs" be said.

Loud wrong.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 11, 2019, 11:15:58 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on June 11, 2019, 11:10:10 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 11, 2019, 07:28:23 PM
Yep.

Radio talk today of still signing KD long term and taking the down year as a means of getting the high pick in the strong 2020 draft

Not this shit again.

Agree,  i thought we were done with tanking.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on June 11, 2019, 11:20:28 PM
lol, he could be 32 years old, coming off a torn achilles (do we know this yet?), entering the first playing year of a long term max contract, lol, lol, lol...sigh.

We may have really blown it with the Latvian trade, or not.

But everything doesn't suck. We got space and picks and a couple good young ones and a bunch of young ones who suck. Opinions will vary greatly on which are which.

See what happens I guess. Dolan still owns the team so odds are lots of bad things, but we've started summers in a lot worse position than this.

*** Slight amendment to the above: we've never started a summer before with a coach as provenly awful as fuckwhale. Ring the bell. Send him to hell.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on June 11, 2019, 11:53:27 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on June 11, 2019, 11:20:28 PM
lol, he could be 32 years old, coming off a torn achilles (do we know this yet?), entering the first playing year of a long term max contract, lol, lol, lol...sigh.

We may have really blown it with the Latvian trade, or not.

But everything doesn't suck. We got space and picks and a couple good young ones and a bunch of young ones who suck. Opinions will vary greatly on which are which.

See what happens I guess. Dolan still owns the team so odds are lots of bad things, but we've started summers in a lot worse position than this.

*** Slight amendment to the above: we've never started a summer before with a coach as provenly awful as fuckwhale. Ring the bell. Send him to hell.

Yeah, the idea that just next year would be a tank year vastly underestimates Durant's recovery runway which may be not just a year to walk but two or three to actually be a functional player.

With all due respect to KD's optimism, no thanks.

But, like you, I think we're in very good shape to improve dramatically.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 12, 2019, 12:01:17 AM
Quote from: FWK00 on June 11, 2019, 11:14:40 PM
Quote from: NeedsAdjustments on June 11, 2019, 04:20:16 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 11, 2019, 12:51:14 PM
Needs has a Uni-crush.

Beyond idiocy for a team to trade a young franchise-defining star for cap space.  Beyond. 

Now the guy they were supposedly clearing cap space isn't coming/won't ever be the same player.

No more "needs" be said.

Loud wrong.

Yeah - Needs often lets the media lead him by the nose.

Knicks management knew KD was just one good option.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: NeedsAdjustments on June 12, 2019, 12:20:30 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 12, 2019, 12:01:17 AM
Quote from: FWK00 on June 11, 2019, 11:14:40 PM
Quote from: NeedsAdjustments on June 11, 2019, 04:20:16 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 11, 2019, 12:51:14 PM
Needs has a Uni-crush.

Beyond idiocy for a team to trade a young franchise-defining star for cap space.  Beyond. 

Now the guy they were supposedly clearing cap space isn't coming/won't ever be the same player.

No more "needs" be said.

Loud wrong.

Yeah - Needs often lets the media lead him by the nose.

Knicks management knew KD was just one good option.

So who is another good option kiidcarter8?  Who is coming to New York to play with...

What Knicks Management knows is that they need to sign someone this summer otherwise trading their unicorn for all that cap space looks fucking stupid. Sounds to me like they will be desperate, and everyone will know it.   I guess Knick fans can console themselves with the fact that the team has never had a history of overpaying for mediocre talent...

But now the crew who said “If we don’t get KD this is a bad trade” is all about watching their young ones grow. So how would a 7’3” 23 year old all-star with game-changing skills fit into that building plan?  I know Dallas fans are excited.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 12, 2019, 01:00:12 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 11, 2019, 09:32:53 AM
"He'll never be the same"

No telling

Achilles tendon can actually come back stronger.

Is there any NBA player that has come back the same after an Achilles injury? Don't believe so.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 12, 2019, 01:01:12 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on June 11, 2019, 06:09:12 AM
I'm not a draftnik.
But I'd be interested to hear why Barrett is better than De'Andre Hunter, who sounds like a terrific out-of-the-box 3&D wing. 

Haven't seen either of them, but a 42% 3-point shooter who defends well, sounds preferable to a 31% outside shooter with questionable D.  Especially with the latter coming off an injury.

RJ can create his own shot, DH can't. RJ can create offense for others, DH cannot.

I'd say Hunter has the higher floor, but a much lower ceiling.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 12, 2019, 01:04:40 AM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on June 11, 2019, 04:14:19 PM
Wasn't one of Davis' issues in New Orleans the idea that his team wasn't doing much to improve itself (an issue I thought he was wrong about it, since I think they have decent enough talent)?  Now that Zion has fallen into their laps, isn't it possible that he would no longer want out?  Or did he burn his bridges?

He wants out, he's confirmed.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 12, 2019, 01:06:29 AM
Quote from: NeedsAdjustments on June 11, 2019, 04:19:25 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 11, 2019, 12:46:06 PM
Quote from: NeedsAdjustments on June 11, 2019, 12:04:29 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 11, 2019, 10:45:42 AM
Well.....

what are the positives of the deal?

That's a great question.  What are they?

At the time, consensus here seemed to be it was a great deal if we got KD, a bad one if we didn't.  So with the injury to KD, seems relevant to bring the deal up again.

To me:  looked stupid at the time, continued to look stupid after Antonio Davis talks, looks stupid now. 

If you see positives, let alone a net positive, lets hear them.

So you like a team with KP as the main cog?

One of.  Sure.  Just like Dallas does now, after celebrating for getting an All-Star for almost nothing.

Wouldn't call it "almost nothing". The KD injury is a huge setback for the Knicks if, indeed, they had good intel he was coming. Otherwise, creating cap space and getting DSJ and two picks was pretty smart if it increased the chances of signing KD.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 12, 2019, 01:08:09 AM
Quote from: Kam on June 11, 2019, 11:15:58 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on June 11, 2019, 11:10:10 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 11, 2019, 07:28:23 PM
Yep.

Radio talk today of still signing KD long term and taking the down year as a means of getting the high pick in the strong 2020 draft

Not this shit again.

Agree,  i thought we were done with tanking.

I thought you were crushing it, Kam. Each and every post. But this one, I'll disagree with. If we can get KD on a long-term deal (especially on a discount?), I'd be willing to punt one more year, doing Atlanta Hawks type trades. Adjust to the circumstances.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 12, 2019, 01:34:07 AM
MRI and other tests should be done by end of week. I’d say no news is bad news.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 12, 2019, 02:58:59 AM
I’d consider trading 3 and our shot at Barrett or Ja for the Hawks’ entire first round, 8, 10, & 17.

08 Brandon Clarke
10 P.J. Washington
17 Mattisse Thybulle

While this leaves us with Knox, DJS, and Trier (and Allen, if he’s back) as primary shot creators, combined with Mitch, Frank, and Dot, we’d have a whole stable of insanely talented defenders who take that side seriously.

Bring back Jordan, a vet forward who can score, and, if you like and one is available , a very expensive PG.

Jordan Robinson Kornet
Gibson Vonleh Washington
Knox  Clarke
Dotson Trier Thybulle
DJS Frank Allen

I’m not sure I want to pay a lot for a point guard. If we could assemble that group, I’d be happy to let it percolate.

If we keep the pick and draft Barrett, I’d try for Rudy Gay and Ricky Rubio as well in free agency.

Jordan Robinson Kornet
Gibson Vonleh Ellington
Knox Gay Dotson
Barrett Trier Frank
Rubio DJS Allen
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on June 12, 2019, 06:03:58 AM
Quote from: NeedsAdjustments on June 12, 2019, 12:20:30 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 12, 2019, 12:01:17 AM
Quote from: FWK00 on June 11, 2019, 11:14:40 PM
Quote from: NeedsAdjustments on June 11, 2019, 04:20:16 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 11, 2019, 12:51:14 PM
Needs has a Uni-crush.

Beyond idiocy for a team to trade a young franchise-defining star for cap space.  Beyond. 

Now the guy they were supposedly clearing cap space isn't coming/won't ever be the same player.

No more "needs" be said.

Loud wrong.

Yeah - Needs often lets the media lead him by the nose.

Knicks management knew KD was just one good option.

So who is another good option kiidcarter8?  Who is coming to New York to play with...

What Knicks Management knows is that they need to sign someone this summer otherwise trading their unicorn for all that cap space looks fucking stupid. Sounds to me like they will be desperate, and everyone will know it.   I guess Knick fans can console themselves with the fact that the team has never had a history of overpaying for mediocre talent...

But now the crew who said “If we don’t get KD this is a bad trade” is all about watching their young ones grow. So how would a 7’3” 23 year old all-star with game-changing skills fit into that building plan?  I know Dallas fans are excited.

There are multiple 'good' options when you have cap space and nothing to lose.  The Knicks can absorb any unwanted rotation players for a price. Lots of good stuff available.

The FO has always maintained that if they sign players it would be on their terms and not in desperation.

BTW, who *are* you - Janis the anus? 

Who ever said, "If we don't get KD...????

BTW, our unicorn is Frankie and always has been.  Porky just wore a beer glass on his temple pretending to be.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 12, 2019, 06:29:57 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on June 12, 2019, 01:01:12 AM
RJ can create his own shot, DH can't. RJ can create offense for others, DH cannot.
I'd say Hunter has the higher floor, but a much lower ceiling.

Too bad Memf is picking 2nd, because Morant seems to be what we need. 
Is anyone here high on Jr. Smith?

How is RJ's outside shooting form?
How iffy is his D?
If he can improve one or both to league average, he could be quite good, otherwise will be flawed.

I still think the KZ situation and trading him was awful and stupid .
Or maybe stupid and awful.  I haven't decided which yet ...

I would have given Franc more run at PG last year.

I still think Knox is a fine prospect and got in tons of useful work.
Hope to see stronger finishes, better defensive awareness, and some better shot selection.  But it'll be just Y2 and he's quite young.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on June 12, 2019, 06:48:44 AM
I would like a trade  down. RJ is another athletic forward with an inconsistent outside shot. Knix need shooters above all else. Franky should stay and learn in Europe just not NBA ready. MGMT not sure about going after AD, idiots!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 12, 2019, 08:24:06 AM
 :One thing about cap space is it lasts.

One caller yesterday actually suggested taking on bbad contracts with the space to add picks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 12, 2019, 09:23:48 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on June 12, 2019, 06:29:57 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on June 12, 2019, 01:01:12 AM
RJ can create his own shot, DH can't. RJ can create offense for others, DH cannot.
I'd say Hunter has the higher floor, but a much lower ceiling.

Too bad Memf is picking 2nd, because Morant seems to be what we need. 
Is anyone here high on Jr. Smith?

How is RJ's outside shooting form?
How iffy is his D?
If he can improve one or both to league average, he could be quite good, otherwise will be flawed.

RJ's shooting form is great, the results aren't. Defensively, he gives effort and has the tools, but makes mistakes.

In related news - he's 18.

I think one can project stardom for RJ if he continues to improve. He has that kind of upside, and his work ethic is excellent. That's why I'd be willing to make that bet. He's my #2 guy in this draft, after Zion.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 12, 2019, 09:29:27 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on June 12, 2019, 01:08:09 AM
If we can get KD on a long-term deal (especially on a discount?), I'd be willing to punt one more year, doing Atlanta Hawks type trades. Adjust to the circumstances.

For an aging, rehabbing KD?
I can't even decide if this is McDyess or Melo redux.
It's kind of a combo of resigning Melo ... if he was a McDice gimp.
Probably the worst FA signing I could imagine, and exactly the kind of stupid thing the Knix do.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 12, 2019, 09:38:16 AM
Getting the feeling that Mudiay is returning.

Though I would not mind taking a run at Russell.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 12, 2019, 09:44:01 AM
Celtics are going to add Conley.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 12, 2019, 09:48:33 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on June 12, 2019, 01:00:12 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 11, 2019, 09:32:53 AM
"He'll never be the same"

No telling

Achilles tendon can actually come back stronger.

Is there any NBA player that has come back the same after an Achilles injury? Don't believe so.

Wilkins

And Kobe

They were older.  But strong.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 12, 2019, 09:57:46 AM
Marc Berman today with 4 scenarios -

#3 sounds ok.

Short of landing max players the Knicks can continue to build around their youth (Knox, Robinson, Smith, Ntlikina, Trier, Dotson, Barrett) and save most of their cap space.  They would then tank (play poorly while trying to win) for another 2020 lottery pick.  The Knicks could use some cap space to re-sign Emmanuel Mudiay and make a run at a young free agent from the second or third tier, such as young athletic bull of a power forward JULIUS RANDLE, who fits their mold, or point guard TERRY ROZIER.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 12, 2019, 10:20:03 AM
Last 2+ mins of G5, Lowry missed a wide open 3.  Threw the ball into the backcourt.  And finally had his shot at herodom blocked by Dray.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: NeedsAdjustments on June 12, 2019, 11:06:47 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on June 12, 2019, 09:29:27 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on June 12, 2019, 01:08:09 AM
If we can get KD on a long-term deal (especially on a discount?), I'd be willing to punt one more year, doing Atlanta Hawks type trades. Adjust to the circumstances.

For an aging, rehabbing KD?
I can't even decide if this is McDyess or Melo redux.
It's kind of a combo of resigning Melo ... if he was a McDice gimp.
Probably the worst FA signing I could imagine, and exactly the kind of stupid thing the Knix do.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 12, 2019, 11:27:27 AM
Quote from: FWK00 on June 11, 2019, 11:53:27 PM


But, like you, I think we're in very good shape to improve dramatically.


Hope is a powerful drug.    If missing the playoffs again is your idea of dramatic improvement then yes, i'm right with you.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 12, 2019, 11:33:11 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on June 12, 2019, 01:08:09 AM
Quote from: Kam on June 11, 2019, 11:15:58 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on June 11, 2019, 11:10:10 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 11, 2019, 07:28:23 PM
Yep.

Radio talk today of still signing KD long term and taking the down year as a means of getting the high pick in the strong 2020 draft

Not this shit again.

Agree,  i thought we were done with tanking.

I thought you were crushing it, Kam. Each and every post. But this one, I'll disagree with. If we can get KD on a long-term deal (especially on a discount?), I'd be willing to punt one more year, doing Atlanta Hawks type trades. Adjust to the circumstances.

KD won't be the same.  You even said so.   Why are we trying to pay him $161 mil for 4 years.... 1 year totally lost to injury, another year where he is still just adjusting, and then two years where his declining skills will be on display (WHILE WE HOPE HE DOESN'T GET HURT AGAIN)

I've seen this movie too many times Biz.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 12, 2019, 11:49:00 AM
If we’re going to spend money on a point guard this summer, Rozier or Russell over Mudiay by a country mile.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 12, 2019, 11:58:32 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on June 12, 2019, 10:20:03 AM
Last 2+ mins of G5, Lowry missed a wide open 3.  Threw the ball into the backcourt.  And finally had his shot at herodom blocked by Dray.

Nice micro analysis.

One of the key possessions was actually when Nurse called the time out up 6and GS dragging, allowing them to rest - and then Kawhi with an awful possession out of the time out.

Also of course noticed that both Kawhi and VanVleet passed up a chance at Kerr-like hero stardom.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on June 12, 2019, 12:03:03 PM
The key to "Kerr-like hero stardom" was that Kerr like Paxson a couple of years earlier was so wide open he couldn't do anything BUT shoot. Other than that you've made a fair comparison.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 12, 2019, 12:28:47 PM
Quote from: luee on June 12, 2019, 06:48:44 AM
I would like a trade  down. RJ is another athletic forward with an inconsistent outside shot. Knix need shooters above all else. Franky should stay and learn in Europe just not NBA ready. MGMT not sure about going after AD, idiots!

RJ is a playmaking Shooting Guard.   His show will get better.  He has all the tools.  His D will improve.  Above all: He wants to be great and exudes the confidence of someone who is already there in his mind. 

Kobe 2.0 is his ceiling.   


I'm not trading that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 12, 2019, 12:34:04 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 12, 2019, 08:24:06 AM
:One thing about cap space is it lasts.

One caller yesterday actually suggested taking on bbad contracts with the space to add picks.

Do the Knicks strike you as the kind of org that would delay instant gratification with all that $$$$
When the Lakers had $$ they spent it on KCP.   You can't sell the NY or LA fan base on picks for bad contracts.
(We just frikkin traded KP to dump bad contracts!)  We will bring in some body to take the $$

Title: Lance Thomas
Post by: Kam on June 12, 2019, 12:43:35 PM
I wonder if we don't waive LT now,   keep his $7 mil ending salary on the books for use in a deadline trade.

What is this teams' direction now?  ALL in for AD?  or rebuild with RJ?
Title: My best idea`
Post by: Kam on June 12, 2019, 12:49:08 PM
Trade #3 pick (plus plus plus) for AD.   Then trade AD to LA for Ball, Kuzma, Ingram and the #4.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on June 12, 2019, 12:54:32 PM
Is Ball still alive?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 12, 2019, 12:58:24 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on June 12, 2019, 12:54:32 PM
Is Ball still alive?

Oh sorry, you're correct.  The man is deceased.   I should really keep up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on June 12, 2019, 02:02:09 PM
Bill Walton won a Championship in his third-season after his first two injury-filled years, so you never know, I guess.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 12, 2019, 06:11:11 PM
http://www.thedailybeast.com/kevin-durant-has-surgery-to-fix-ruptured-achilles-tendon?ref=home (http://www.thedailybeast.com/kevin-durant-has-surgery-to-fix-ruptured-achilles-tendon?ref=home)

Now we know.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 12, 2019, 08:50:56 PM
NBA Mock Draft special

ESPN2  10 PM
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 12, 2019, 08:53:12 PM
Quote from: Kam on June 12, 2019, 12:34:04 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 12, 2019, 08:24:06 AM
:One thing about cap space is it lasts.

One caller yesterday actually suggested taking on bbad contracts with the space to add picks.

Do the Knicks strike you as the kind of org that would delay instant gratification with all that $$$$
When the Lakers had $$ they spent it on KCP.   You can't sell the NY or LA fan base on picks for bad contracts.
(We just frikkin traded KP to dump bad contracts!)  We will bring in some body to take the $$

Very likely, yes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 12, 2019, 08:54:32 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on June 12, 2019, 12:54:32 PM
Is Ball still alive?

Is this supposed to be funny?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on June 12, 2019, 09:01:56 PM
Not my best work.
Title: Les who's your favorite Knicks coach?
Post by: carlos123 on June 12, 2019, 09:45:19 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on June 11, 2019, 11:20:28 PM

But everything doesn't suck. We got space and picks and a couple good young ones and a bunch of young ones who suck. Opinions will vary greatly on which are which.

See what happens I guess. Dolan still owns the team so odds are lots of bad things, but we've started summers in a lot worse position than this.

*** Slight amendment to the above: we've never started a summer before with a coach as provenly awful as fuckwhale. Ring the bell. Send him to hell.

I dunno about coaches, I mean, Fizzy is awful, but how about these ...

(https://sportsnaut.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/USATSI_9010895_168380823_lowres-1024x687.jpg)

(https://www.nba.com/lakers/sites/lakers/files/styles/story_main_photo/public/kurt-rambis-hired-lakers.jpg?itok=2odQ68bk)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/tKAADoFizkINWO5Q-NG76WGNm1oIkP5L-daGb4o1rF0MeB73bfYMQxestKpqQn4yTdwVlmXt1EJWnFrZs3KhB-JFtpqMIbUdDhGoqBOfSadsprXvdCsWVEVbGsOgsXuHrGecCIYujI4zyLXcU-rhZaMQ8MdYf91QH-bA1kMb7QIfwFkxTIk1Wn_oUPOSMb1Qpatz6fKhf0ehI8hUkLa8W3Z24pKNYE82d7ZOM0pdOKa7-Flu_e6STSsbkQ1omfANeWrH8KbVR5JlRB5vMYILWF46Qu2psCzBYbBGetKtGVIGFv6w1FOXrE9LhqW0BoyDgQKXejdpY_1Q204_LFIYbvJk7EqN1tS7WDEPqZ4ezs5nuJso_XUdwLe3htZsT7C6bDGRsT9FoYG_2XBV3yanlSbvTRdYlveRV3wDSHYPOFSp7zPi2xOSl19M7YXlGg_YdAFKQI8sM71CWrR-xBiIx_ivBzfunPYPrjLgPfT_D7wn3FBK2mRepB74cUMfvxDe-dUjPrOb6JDpn7s68HrC6TkB7vy3cO6k0wOT-E2jMKwPZ9irOB5juLKGzmAxA4ccU0Ice7WO4UHDHshU2IwTes9TzgUn6dp_WEDE4ka8KkD6gfI37SctdHS1hPZqbfrOi-RIMq6e5Xp-mCG9Vw819T1I2kNypbk=w876-h445-no)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Z7YCyAy-nuZiYoJ14HOyejlEyRGZqUPlxj2dEbK9teT_wQA4xi5jgodEazRGWFHkLwAUuMz99ihbWn_aFel0x5KphLBn4BIalafQ6IDS_Aky9gTpQQ7ryandwN2R7SK4AUCeImqbhmrnvSAvphB9ELAh86G3Wa4fEB5zmdcFEEj0rXPT7Abs5d5A95xFhA7e6RzSQvXFKtUXP-FIvj6EDrClXRq40vp0KhfgQYFTH2ochDU0as1tgiCm652nMHJZiEmtU2xz9kj149rg8PeTsR8D5h7h4EA-3bn11xv-tVvoQ01ybq5ddeFx5I26ybreNPDSKbe0h_erWp5Y0puI0pguWw1pTj3BR8AZmXLKmvv2lrpKtjrBQUlgfHcgiMbA1v797cNK0rMv6IutQwhQ9FrLAUC1oDG9PgvcYznxm20MqMgLxhHp7MtctpVWDDa5rRcZ0v0C5qyY16j73XZQngtqj99d_9a7zEEwnuZCGO4re9DNdtYJp06bvAzZlr82cfaH-FsZguyEXRLIbzKS6vfXqcd8L6Ql8D88ip8RlfA6o3y55XGxt5_pSHKFMTMBaBOflE9VfQyrT3RSkxezxgZmYj1a-hJ4GmNDAorncK8EpWRlya3LWiaiE8-shG5--_K1DF5bKqunXy20Gt2K1QW1MX3otSw=w731-h757-no)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-GEq-h928G73gGKVHj1DoSYUhfyB9I2KmBPcAKc6RQbb4kfQRLaF_ziixnT2FmP7GfM1BR1m3wfM5anvLELOz4WfiqkQYSnR9p-EEiPQ2vgUU8cEJJA09-sXJVM02-HeF81Kuq5ho0xbBEY7eHAD4h9MpqYyPhB09NGhrB7f5M4mxCvO0f7KLkhe9OpIB7D3py9j5nFStlY-5OATKF76PyV2Iic-ciF7GkEX1XVXcZ0dNRqXvS9E2XGkFuLXFUbelJaBR06YuqVLV26G8uoCJG_maQIX5lrHMiBut3w1Qh9mHyyIrulI8cpuIPzL_bLEZUxJs1o64jTJ2GV2BE2SEAKhgSBshqwt1cDR8bfipKFAEEV7KB6B59wsLM8mUHIU3H2Ibn9MIqKbsfaU_q_DvIsUfk71op1PsjTha8ocovRQlMFUf7Zy6AwWygV1a_DcndSETBuKaNetgXsKgwaxi-tzg1_MtOMahSm8tfgnA4EJIyNnAnXCyh0Y93ovoASLH_2gcE4dRjJYYzt5eoYqrWM8iyT3hbmoNEioQ6gYxLXbYMEjOjxN7xZgCTe35dbvpIYgh5g60lHb47h8gTuj6o1EGdFZYy5Dc48iK4hmLkYPkM4vC4s11WqVPOLTLZhMkfQebViAfhiyTA0laWSkKZbbm5m3HEU=w1019-h319-no)
Title: MEANWHILE ...
Post by: carlos123 on June 12, 2019, 09:49:40 PM
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/59u8jweZoHsU32UbOnjtZzXrQhx-8KQLtyCHJfG_M9BGATo-maS2OW0SLymBDX_A7_OGscNa_gxqR1cMMkOSGwo2QppEKFAGLEOctkw4dNgPWtZ26Vgr5NM772Ar16_HlGFFJhVupYnv85NX38dE_0NTq5FaHso0rlD6HPSBHhfr3Vmfx66XYJu2LkRku3ftwZaJ0shO8fPKqBs1Qb7c3F8V8RGSXha9CbFGEQBuGGQcp7fXXZ904H9eIyEzQ0Uo_H8lJolODNlgQu6lZasMRzXM16Jjyvvyc9ChDA5UjNSfdlFcV4sgrdmck8fwwCL8-N6s3PnsLU2mhR_6vpBblrxiCHAoJOcDbWbiIT01HdH06R5qSP-LkpcM-NiGxTA6OXgWxegPeubEU5ox9npuEr0dep2EZM9oXrcGlBBf6P12ZZDolaPhYHQ39HEEAHZPGYLciXgPbbYL5VWHTbH242BALT8O698u0xoKY5BBMdNekpzBmxoEVsZo13L9mSal-4n_JDw0sFJj-vXlfpniiPDk_2HznJ-2AzAl3ZP0DKLINn5WntSIYngVT9RWufpMGmf87Zoy318gjvtQZS3c5kwwRlVRHp4eG0JXgIHb5KDZPeSnIiQGLgGK8md6ZLLvUoiaqa0wlyK71LRDH6xaQopEemqPqzk=w720-h480-no)
Title: Re: Les who's your favorite Knicks coach?
Post by: lesterluv on June 12, 2019, 11:01:03 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on June 12, 2019, 09:45:19 PM


(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/tKAADoFizkINWO5Q-NG76WGNm1oIkP5L-daGb4o1rF0MeB73bfYMQxestKpqQn4yTdwVlmXt1EJWnFrZs3KhB-JFtpqMIbUdDhGoqBOfSadsprXvdCsWVEVbGsOgsXuHrGecCIYujI4zyLXcU-rhZaMQ8MdYf91QH-bA1kMb7QIfwFkxTIk1Wn_oUPOSMb1Qpatz6fKhf0ehI8hUkLa8W3Z24pKNYE82d7ZOM0pdOKa7-Flu_e6STSsbkQ1omfANeWrH8KbVR5JlRB5vMYILWF46Qu2psCzBYbBGetKtGVIGFv6w1FOXrE9LhqW0BoyDgQKXejdpY_1Q204_LFIYbvJk7EqN1tS7WDEPqZ4ezs5nuJso_XUdwLe3htZsT7C6bDGRsT9FoYG_2XBV3yanlSbvTRdYlveRV3wDSHYPOFSp7zPi2xOSl19M7YXlGg_YdAFKQI8sM71CWrR-xBiIx_ivBzfunPYPrjLgPfT_D7wn3FBK2mRepB74cUMfvxDe-dUjPrOb6JDpn7s68HrC6TkB7vy3cO6k0wOT-E2jMKwPZ9irOB5juLKGzmAxA4ccU0Ice7WO4UHDHshU2IwTes9TzgUn6dp_WEDE4ka8KkD6gfI37SctdHS1hPZqbfrOi-RIMq6e5Xp-mCG9Vw819T1I2kNypbk=w876-h445-no)

I know I am 100% alone in this forum in thinking this, but I still say Fish was wonderful coach.

Just4 coaxing the best team ball of a career out of that dribbling parody of a lifestyle brand once known as #StayMelo***


*** or whatever he was once known as ... #Melo4Lif3? #MeeMel0? #MarshM33Lo?
Title: Les and Melo
Post by: carlos123 on June 12, 2019, 11:39:42 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on June 12, 2019, 11:01:03 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on June 12, 2019, 09:45:19 PM


(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/tKAADoFizkINWO5Q-NG76WGNm1oIkP5L-daGb4o1rF0MeB73bfYMQxestKpqQn4yTdwVlmXt1EJWnFrZs3KhB-JFtpqMIbUdDhGoqBOfSadsprXvdCsWVEVbGsOgsXuHrGecCIYujI4zyLXcU-rhZaMQ8MdYf91QH-bA1kMb7QIfwFkxTIk1Wn_oUPOSMb1Qpatz6fKhf0ehI8hUkLa8W3Z24pKNYE82d7ZOM0pdOKa7-Flu_e6STSsbkQ1omfANeWrH8KbVR5JlRB5vMYILWF46Qu2psCzBYbBGetKtGVIGFv6w1FOXrE9LhqW0BoyDgQKXejdpY_1Q204_LFIYbvJk7EqN1tS7WDEPqZ4ezs5nuJso_XUdwLe3htZsT7C6bDGRsT9FoYG_2XBV3yanlSbvTRdYlveRV3wDSHYPOFSp7zPi2xOSl19M7YXlGg_YdAFKQI8sM71CWrR-xBiIx_ivBzfunPYPrjLgPfT_D7wn3FBK2mRepB74cUMfvxDe-dUjPrOb6JDpn7s68HrC6TkB7vy3cO6k0wOT-E2jMKwPZ9irOB5juLKGzmAxA4ccU0Ice7WO4UHDHshU2IwTes9TzgUn6dp_WEDE4ka8KkD6gfI37SctdHS1hPZqbfrOi-RIMq6e5Xp-mCG9Vw819T1I2kNypbk=w876-h445-no)

I know I am 100% alone in this forum in thinking this, but I still say Fish was wonderful coach.

Just4 coaxing the best team ball of a career out of that dribbling parody of a lifestyle brand once known as #StayMelo***


*** or whatever he was once known as ... #Melo4Lif3? #MeeMel0? #MarshM33Lo?

Les, but I thought you and Melo were rite and tite... or something like that. That’s what you were sayin towards the end of his Knicks career. Oh, it was because of wonderful Phish? Oh, oh 😮 😯 😲

PS. Message to Knocks FO...

DON’T LET N.O. FLEECE YOU.

DON’T EXPECT DURANT TO BE YOUR SAVIOR.

LET KYRIE GO TO THE NYETS. You have Smith Jr. and you can go for D’Angelo if you feel you need another PG. But the one PG you don’t need is Kyrie.

Any questions? Just ask.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 13, 2019, 03:12:08 AM
I like how Fizz handled the tank and the yute and reclamations and kept guys focused.  #3 pick is our reward.

Don't think you can fairly judge Fizz until he has a genuine team with legit starters.  Last year most of the roster improved and/or exceeded expectations (Mud, Trier, Mitch!, Vonleh, Dot, Kornet)

Franc the exception.  While Knox was up-and-down, but with some nice stretches/flashes, including Rook of December award.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 13, 2019, 03:39:00 AM
I'm always amazed when a player like Durant (owed $30M next year) or really any player (average salary $8M) has a serious leg injury and just walks to the lockerroom holding the shoulders of teammates. 

Can't believe they don't use a cart as in football, or a wheelchair or stretcher.  Limping to the locker room can't help the injury any.  A billion dollar sports industry, hi-tech sports medicine, trainers and med personnel, and they have their players hobble off like I'd do on the playground.  Bizarre.

This has baffled me for years . . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 13, 2019, 05:31:42 AM
I don't like Kyrie.
Knix best bet is to wait for AD in FA.
Let's hope Celts trade for him and then he wants NY a year later.
Or he goes to the Lakes and doesn't enjoy playing with LeBJ in a LBJ dominated org with a cast of nobodies.

Knix draft Barrett.  Pair him with Knox and Mitch.
Keep Vonleh and maybe D. Andrethe Giant.
Decide on Jr. Smith, Mud, Franc.

Jr. Smith -- Mud/Franc
Barrett / Trier/Dot
Knox / Barrett
Vonleh / Knox
Deandre / Mitch

We'd be a young developing team.
With promise at 3 or 4 slots.
DeAndre as our steady vet.

Try to pick up a solid outside shooter in FA.
Add a steady Eddy Davis type on the cheap.

Another development year, get another Top 10 pick.
Have cap space for a max FA like AD the following year.
Two max slots if we play it carefully/right.

Can't count on shortcuts. Rebuilding takes time and patience.
Hope we can get AD for just cap space after a year.

I'd be fine tanking another year.  Playing Jr. Smith - Franc - Barrett - Knox - Mitch big minutes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 13, 2019, 06:05:03 AM
It’s a good plan Bo. No need to do anything crazy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 13, 2019, 07:20:03 AM
As I suspected -

good chance Durant already had partially torn Achilles, like Ewing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 13, 2019, 08:47:04 AM
New deal to consider

Kevin Knox, a future 1 and 2 2s for this year's #5 overall.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on June 13, 2019, 09:07:37 AM
considered—where do we sign!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 13, 2019, 09:20:39 AM
Celts update

1 - Kyrie to officially opt out

2 - Agent Rich Paul warns that if Celts deal for AD dont blame him if Antonio leaves after one year

3 - Brad Stevens still overrated
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 13, 2019, 09:23:50 AM
From the REAL DUMB department

Mock Draft Special had analysis of Lakers - stating Lakers would be nowhere near competitive if they make no deal and just add D Hunter

1 - Likely they dont take Hunter

2 - Again the loss of Ball last year is discounted.  Lakers were in decent position before Lonzo - and then Lebron went down to injury.  Its an excellent roster

3 - Press still downplays the mistake Lakers made when the let Randle go
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 13, 2019, 11:09:30 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 13, 2019, 08:47:04 AM
New deal to consider
Kevin Knox, a future 1 and 2 2s for this year's #5 overall.

I consider that awful ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 13, 2019, 11:16:34 AM
Why?  Because Knox is a known commodity and the 5 pick is not?

We could pair Barrett with Reddish.

I'd use the Dallas 2021 pick.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 13, 2019, 11:32:32 AM
1) Don't think we're in a position to give up multiple assets for a rook.
2) I like Knox.
3) We need to develop some players at some point. 
Rolling things back to rooks doesn't advance much.
We lost KZ, Franc is seen by mgt as iffy, and then letting Knox go -- just seems not the right approach.

4) if I were to do such a trade, I think I'd prefer a sure thing NBA starter like Hunter rather than a risk-reward type like Reddish

It sounds like an interesting draft.
More PG's than I was aware of.
But the guy who played 5 games in college and got hurt, is tough to evaluate.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 13, 2019, 11:38:51 AM
If we're going full rebuild, as Bo says, a guy like Ed Davis (or Demarre Carroll) makes sense.

I'd see what first rounder the Miami Heat would give for Ryan Anderson. (Taking on Allan Crabbe's contract fetched two first rounders, of course with Taurean Prince headed the other way as well).

I'd try to see if Charlotte would give us Marvin Williams (expiring) for basically free, since they're going to have major cap/tax problems if they re-sign Kemba and Marvin fits well next to DeAndre. Or maybe Marvin & MKG & the 12th pick this year for Iso Zo and Dotson and their own second rounder back.
 
I'd take Evan Turner or Meyers Leonard from Portland without sending anything more than a 2nd rounder back, if they want out of the tax.

Those are players that can still actually contribute. Another option is to just seek dead cap weight in exchange for first rounders.

Biyombo is a large expiring, but you definitely need to take a 1st to take him on. Same thing with Mozgov over in Orlando.

The Wizards will have issues if they don't kick start the rebuild - how desperate are they to rid themselves of Ian Mahinmi?

From OKC - would they give their first rounder for us to take Andre Roberson and Patrick Patterson?

Memphis probably won't give up anything interesting for Chandler Parsons.

There is an irony in having dumped Courtney Lee just to go back into the market and take on contracts just like his. Irrespective of whether Durant signs, if we don't get an all-star talent for next season, I want to be the Hawks for a year. Trust that some of the youth, including RJ, will take major steps forward. There's lots to like.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 13, 2019, 11:50:04 AM
For the record, I think the Knicks are the team best suited to wait a year for Durant. Golden State will be tempted, but the tax implications are so severe, it's going to be difficult for them.

Lakers cannot wait.

Clippers have too much potential and expectations, but they're so well managed nowadays, who knows when they will successfully zig when everyone expects them to zag.

Brooklyn looms as a risk, but they just traded their pick. I think they're more likely to sign one all-star (Tobias or Kyrie) and then bring back a lot of their contributors and try to jump Indiana and perhaps Boston into a top-four seed.

I think it comes down to NY and G-State.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 13, 2019, 11:54:38 AM
I'd be up for taking on some ending/short-term contracts.
I like Meyers and DMC, and Davis.
And maybe we can pick up assets on a salary dump a la the Crabbe walk.

Having a lot of cap space affords opportunities to add assets and be creative.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 13, 2019, 12:58:55 PM
"I think it comes down to NY and G State"

Let's not forget - KD could opt in to his 31 mil and go from there - giving him many more options (Lakers, Celtics, etc) for 2020-21.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 13, 2019, 12:59:51 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on June 13, 2019, 03:39:00 AM
I'm always amazed when a player like Durant (owed $30M next year) or really any player (average salary $8M) has a serious leg injury and just walks to the lockerroom holding the shoulders of teammates. 

Can't believe they don't use a cart as in football, or a wheelchair or stretcher.  Limping to the locker room can't help the injury any.  A billion dollar sports industry, hi-tech sports medicine, trainers and med personnel, and they have their players hobble off like I'd do on the playground.  Bizarre.

This has baffled me for years . . .

You don't want you fans to see that.

It happens rarely in the NFL.    They limp to the sidelines also.   

Soccer players are all faking their injuries for calls.  THey get carried off then someone sprays water on them.  And they're fine!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 13, 2019, 01:05:11 PM
So no real injuries in soccer.  Got it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 13, 2019, 01:43:10 PM
I want whatever is best for the player.
Why was KD walking on a torn Achilles?
Get weight off the injured body part immediately.

And KD limped all the way through the bowels of the stadium to the lockerroom as well.
Dumb stuff, imo.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 13, 2019, 02:01:18 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 13, 2019, 08:47:04 AM
New deal to consider

Kevin Knox, a future 1 and 2 2s for this year's #5 overall.


Worst forum fantasy trade offer ever.

Have you seen this team?  A future 1 will probably be top 5 anyway.  So you just wanna dump Knox and 2 2s.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 13, 2019, 02:08:04 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 13, 2019, 01:05:11 PM
So no real injuries in soccer.  Got it.

Don't act like you've never see a guy taken off on a stretcher and after a few minutes on the sideline he is back running again.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 13, 2019, 02:11:24 PM
Dallas's #1 in 2021.

I dont value the 2s - sorry.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 13, 2019, 02:15:19 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on June 13, 2019, 01:43:10 PM
I want whatever is bets for the player.
Why was KD walking on a torn Achilles?
Get weight off the injured body part immediately.

And KD limped all the way through the bowels of the stadium to the lockerroom as well.
Dumb stuff, imo.

He had a ruptured achilles.  There was probably no way to hurt it further.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 13, 2019, 03:11:57 PM
On the court, any diagnosis is preliminary and uncertain.  He could have had a partially torn achilles, or somesuch.

But this happens with all sorts of leg and foot injuries. 
The guy limps off with some support from teammates.
Or if it's real bad they carry the gimp.

It's so bizarrely low-tech and pedestrian compared to the rest of the sophisticated, high-end NBA.  Such a weird disconnect.  It's almost comical.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on June 13, 2019, 03:28:37 PM
Quote from: Kam on June 13, 2019, 02:01:18 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 13, 2019, 08:47:04 AM
New deal to consider

Kevin Knox, a future 1 and 2 2s for this year's #5 overall.


Worst forum fantasy trade offer ever.

Have you seen this team?  A future 1 will probably be top 5 anyway.  So you just wanna dump Knox and 2 2s.

As would be anticipated, your analysis shows very little understanding of anything.

Kevin Knox's potential. (zero defense, zero game IQ, horribly inefficient shooting, very suspect motor, begone...) or how the NBA lottery and draft actually works.

Fantastic deal. Make it!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 13, 2019, 03:28:53 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on June 13, 2019, 03:11:57 PM


It's so bizarrely low-tech and pedestrian compared to the rest of the sophisticated, high-end NBA.  Such a weird disconnect.  It's almost comical.

What is your solution?   A high-tech robot that sweeps the player up into its bosom?  How severe must it be to call for the stretcher?   Who decides?  Could a player fake an injury to buy time for his team like a free time-out as they bring the stretcher from out of the tunnel?

I don't see why the status quo needs to change.   You ignore the law of unintended consequences that change will usher in.

If a guy can put weight on it, let him. If he can't put weight on it then let his teammates carry him off.   

Always been that way.   Doesn't need to change.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 13, 2019, 03:30:50 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on June 13, 2019, 03:28:37 PM
Quote from: Kam on June 13, 2019, 02:01:18 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 13, 2019, 08:47:04 AM
New deal to consider

Kevin Knox, a future 1 and 2 2s for this year's #5 overall.


Worst forum fantasy trade offer ever.

Have you seen this team?  A future 1 will probably be top 5 anyway.  So you just wanna dump Knox and 2 2s.

As would be anticipated, your analysis shows very little understanding of anything.

Kevin Knox's potential. (zero defense, zero game IQ, horribly inefficient shooting, very suspect motor, begone...) or how the NBA lottery and draft actually works.

Fantastic deal. Make it!

Your endorsement only strengthens my argument against.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on June 13, 2019, 03:31:52 PM
Quote from: Kam on June 13, 2019, 12:59:51 PM
Soccer players are all faking their injuries for calls.  THey get carried off then someone sprays water on them.  And they're fine!

But you are 100 percent on the $$$$ here..all show, nobody needs those stretchers, players and crowd loves them tho' ***



*** who loves ya, Surfer? I do!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 13, 2019, 03:36:12 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on June 13, 2019, 03:28:37 PM
Quote from: Kam on June 13, 2019, 02:01:18 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 13, 2019, 08:47:04 AM
New deal to consider

Kevin Knox, a future 1 and 2 2s for this year's #5 overall.


Worst forum fantasy trade offer ever.

Have you seen this team?  A future 1 will probably be top 5 anyway.  So you just wanna dump Knox and 2 2s.

As would be anticipated, your analysis shows very little understanding of anything.

Kevin Knox's potential. (zero defense, zero game IQ, horribly inefficient shooting, very suspect motor, begone...) or how the NBA lottery and draft actually works.

Fantastic deal. Make it!

We could've won 33 games and still won  the lottery.   So no... i'm not trading a potential Top pick for a #5 AND throwing in Knox.   AND 2 2s.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: AdeTheOba on June 13, 2019, 03:46:08 PM
Quote from: Kam on June 13, 2019, 12:59:51 PM


   

Soccer players are all faking their injuries for calls.  THey get carried off then someone sprays water on them.  And they're fine!
[/quote]
Kam, while there are theatrics at play for some situations in football (what u call soccer), I rarely seen the situation you noted. In addition, the stretcher is used in many cases b/c it may take too long for a seriously injured player to limp off.

I too was amazed that Durant was allowed to walk off with a suspected Achilles injury. Tell me you were tongue-in-cheek that if he could put weight on it, he could walk...how about worsening the injury?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 13, 2019, 04:20:01 PM
"I'm afraid of Kyrie Irving right now"

- Francessa

Funny.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 13, 2019, 04:30:17 PM
Quote from: Kam on June 13, 2019, 03:36:12 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on June 13, 2019, 03:28:37 PM
Quote from: Kam on June 13, 2019, 02:01:18 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 13, 2019, 08:47:04 AM
New deal to consider

Kevin Knox, a future 1 and 2 2s for this year's #5 overall.


Worst forum fantasy trade offer ever.

Have you seen this team?  A future 1 will probably be top 5 anyway.  So you just wanna dump Knox and 2 2s.

As would be anticipated, your analysis shows very little understanding of anything.

Kevin Knox's potential. (zero defense, zero game IQ, horribly inefficient shooting, very suspect motor, begone...) or how the NBA lottery and draft actually works.

Fantastic deal. Make it!

We could've won 33 games and still won  the lottery.   So no... i'm not trading a potential Top pick for a #5 AND throwing in Knox.   AND 2 2s.

Do you think the NBA generally values Knox ahead of a top 10 2019 pick right now?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 13, 2019, 04:52:37 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 13, 2019, 04:30:17 PM
Quote from: Kam on June 13, 2019, 03:36:12 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on June 13, 2019, 03:28:37 PM
Quote from: Kam on June 13, 2019, 02:01:18 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 13, 2019, 08:47:04 AM
New deal to consider

Kevin Knox, a future 1 and 2 2s for this year's #5 overall.


Worst forum fantasy trade offer ever.

Have you seen this team?  A future 1 will probably be top 5 anyway.  So you just wanna dump Knox and 2 2s.

As would be anticipated, your analysis shows very little understanding of anything.

Kevin Knox's potential. (zero defense, zero game IQ, horribly inefficient shooting, very suspect motor, begone...) or how the NBA lottery and draft actually works.

Fantastic deal. Make it!

We could've won 33 games and still won  the lottery.   So no... i'm not trading a potential Top pick for a #5 AND throwing in Knox.   AND 2 2s.

Do you think the NBA generally values Knox ahead of a top 10 2019 pick right now?

They're roughly equal in value.  The difference is you are gambling Knox improvement potential vs a phastazm to be named later.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 13, 2019, 04:54:03 PM
You make that trade and you could be giving up a Top 4 pick in a draft you tout to get a #5 pick in a weak draft.

Makes sense on no levels.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 13, 2019, 10:11:54 PM
I dont think #5 this year is weak

Its 2020 that is loaded.  Not sure of 2021
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 13, 2019, 10:12:49 PM
Quote from: Kam on June 13, 2019, 04:52:37 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 13, 2019, 04:30:17 PM
Quote from: Kam on June 13, 2019, 03:36:12 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on June 13, 2019, 03:28:37 PM
Quote from: Kam on June 13, 2019, 02:01:18 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 13, 2019, 08:47:04 AM
New deal to consider

Kevin Knox, a future 1 and 2 2s for this year's #5 overall.


Worst forum fantasy trade offer ever.

Have you seen this team?  A future 1 will probably be top 5 anyway.  So you just wanna dump Knox and 2 2s.

As would be anticipated, your analysis shows very little understanding of anything.

Kevin Knox's potential. (zero defense, zero game IQ, horribly inefficient shooting, very suspect motor, begone...) or how the NBA lottery and draft actually works.

Fantastic deal. Make it!

We could've won 33 games and still won  the lottery.   So no... i'm not trading a potential Top pick for a #5 AND throwing in Knox.   AND 2 2s.

Do you think the NBA generally values Knox ahead of a top 10 2019 pick right now?

They're roughly equal in value.  The difference is you are gambling Knox improvement potential vs a phastazm to be named later.

Knox improvement potential.

Like Frank

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on June 13, 2019, 11:15:15 PM
what a game!

*** and I can't believe anyone watching these smart, giving-it-all-every-minute players who play incredible D want anything to do with a Kevin Knox...


**** and Mark Jackson is the world's biggest blowhard idiot. I hope he gets a coaching job somewhere so we don't have to listen to him anymore
Title: Reckless Les
Post by: carlos123 on June 13, 2019, 11:26:45 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on June 13, 2019, 11:15:15 PM

**** and Mark Jackson is the world's biggest blowhard idiot. I hope he gets a coaching job somewhere so we don't have to listen to him anymore

Les, be careful what you wish for 😳
Title: Re: Reckless Les
Post by: lesterluv on June 13, 2019, 11:28:01 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on June 13, 2019, 11:26:45 PM
Les, be careful what you wish for 😳

lol, lol, you are so right....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 13, 2019, 11:28:35 PM
FVV, man.

You guys giving an asterisk if the Raps win?

Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 13, 2019, 02:11:24 PM
Dallas's #1 in 2021.

I dont value the 2s - sorry.

Those Charlotte 2s have a lot of value.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on June 13, 2019, 11:30:15 PM
asterisk? are you out of your fucking mind?

this is playoff basketball...how many teams has GS beat with players out or playing hurt....spare us...who wins, wins.
Title: Re: Reckless Les
Post by: carlos123 on June 13, 2019, 11:33:50 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on June 13, 2019, 11:28:01 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on June 13, 2019, 11:26:45 PM
Les, be careful what you wish for 😳

lol, lol, you are so right....

Reckless Les = ReckLes
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 13, 2019, 11:35:56 PM
What an incredible game, again.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on June 13, 2019, 11:38:58 PM
beautiful one...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on June 13, 2019, 11:46:04 PM
lol...they sure are making Canada suffer...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on June 13, 2019, 11:47:05 PM
free Canada, free the Raptors already!!!!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 13, 2019, 11:50:19 PM
JEREMY LIN is an NBA champion.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 13, 2019, 11:51:12 PM
I think we know who Exec of the Year should be

(Sit down, Ainge!)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on June 13, 2019, 11:52:23 PM
lol Lin...true..and pretty funny, that.

Happy for Lowry, loved him from his first NBA game (triple-overtime vs. Knicks), a few historical erratic playoff performances notwithstanding, this year, this game, played great....

props to Raps, they fought for every ball every play, and the Warriors
Title: After 73 years
Post by: Kam on June 14, 2019, 12:15:38 AM
The USA's reign over the NBA is over.
Today is a day of national shame*.
Turn in your passports ya lousy raps.

Yet another reason to draft the greatest Canadian; RJ Barrett.




*Or just, if you are related to Lesterdog, you know, basically like all your days.
Title: Steph Curry
Post by: Kam on June 14, 2019, 12:23:46 AM
Still searching for that 4th Title and first Finals MVP

Now 3-2 in Finals

All of Steph's Titles could have Asterisks too! Cavs were injured!  Then they got KD!   

That's why asterisks are dumb.   You can apply that to many.   Every Champion has benefited from some measure of luck.
Title: The Drake Curse
Post by: Kam on June 14, 2019, 12:27:06 AM
Has been lifted.

https://uproxx.com/hiphop/drake-curse-complete-history/ (https://uproxx.com/hiphop/drake-curse-complete-history/)
Title: Re: After 73 years
Post by: lesterluv on June 14, 2019, 12:34:34 AM
Quote from: Kam link=topic=11.msg92689#msg92689

*Or just, if you are related to Lesterdog, you know, basically like all your days.


I'm gonna tell you something funny, Kam, I am actually related to James Naismith the Canadian-born inventor of basketball.


something else....I am actually related to Tiny Archibald, how cool is that!!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 14, 2019, 12:50:31 AM
Team effort.
Lowry with 15 in the 1Q.  But just 5 in the 2nd half and a number of fall-down style turnovers.
Siakim had a big 1st half and terrific game.  including a big basket driving on Dray green to put Raps up 3 late.
Van Fred came up huge in the 4Q, making some tough shots.

Danny Green didn't score and had a terrible turnover that gave GS/Scurry a last chance.  But was a +7 in 18 mins.
Green's no-show meant TOR played with Lowry & FVV out there a ton.  And Klay exploited that a lot just shooting over the little guys.

Klay was great til he sprained his knee.
Dray was terrific.
Scurry was mediocre.
Iggy was terrific.
Boogie was up and down.
GSW a -18 with Quinn Cook out there.  i didn't notice that in real time, as GSW bench did allright (mostly Livingston and Boogie scoring).

I'd be interested in seeing the 2nd half rebounding numbers, as it seemed GSW boarded everything in the 1st half.  I thought the strong boardwork kept them in the game.  A few 2nd chances, and Raps were 1-and-done in the 1st half.
Title: Re: After 73 years
Post by: Kam on June 14, 2019, 01:04:23 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on June 14, 2019, 12:34:34 AM
Quote from: Kam link=topic=11.msg92689#msg92689

*Or just, if you are related to Lesterdog, you know, basically like all your days.


I'm gonna tell you something funny, Kam, I am actually related to James Naismith the Canadian-born inventor of basketball.


something else....I am actually related to Tiny Archibald, how cool is that!!!!


Congrats! You qualify to recieve a Kardashian to be named later. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 14, 2019, 01:09:20 AM
Raps largely played a slow-down style, with passes far out on the perimeter, and plays not really starting until single digits on the shot clock.  Seemed a dangerous strategy, but it worked, as they hit nearly 40% on 3's, while Siakim and FVV (and some Kawhi) created points out of not much late in the clock.

The Splash Guys went 16-16 on FT's; rest of Warriors 5-14.
Iggy just 1-5.

Leonard, Lowry and Siakim all went 1-2 when Raps were trying to come back in the 2nd half.  But the team shot nearly 80% on FT's.
Title: Winners
Post by: Kam on June 14, 2019, 01:59:49 AM
Massai
Kawhi
Toronto
Title: Losers
Post by: Kam on June 14, 2019, 02:01:01 AM
Greg Popovich, Demarr DeRozan, et al
Knicks fans hopes
Hegemony
Title: Klay Thompson
Post by: Kam on June 14, 2019, 02:08:47 AM
Nobody is talking about it but Klay could be out all next season too.  The normal timeline is usually anywhere from nine months to one year for a torn ACL.

Klay a free agent as well as Kevin.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on June 14, 2019, 02:09:26 AM
Derozan..yeah, not happy for sure.**

Pops, everybody's thinking he's somehow gotta be upset. I'm pretty sure he's wistful, but smiling.

He and the organization played a big part in Kawhi becoming what he's become. If you're a coach, there's gotta be some pride.

They knew damn well the situation they were dropping Kawhi into was ready-made for what happened. It was a gift.  If they'd wanted to they coulda shipped him to hell.

** and add in Dwayne Casey
Title: Re: Klay Thompson
Post by: bodiddley on June 14, 2019, 02:47:44 AM
Quote from: Kam on June 14, 2019, 02:08:47 AM
Nobody is talking about it but Klay could be out all next season too.  The normal timeline is usually anywhere from nine months to one year for a torn ACL.

Klay a free agent as well as Kevin.

My first thought when Klay went down in pain (and then on replay you see his knee torque oddly):
that GS was done for this year and next.
Dynasty over ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 14, 2019, 05:59:50 AM
How can Golden State afford to keep both players - $67 million in salary - with neither contributing next year? (Or at least Klay not contributing until March and not 100% for the whole season)?

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 14, 2019, 06:30:05 AM
They get into this new wacky lottery and land their Duncan. Get back at it the next year. You can’t even really call it tanking.

More likely next year causes enough stress and acrimony that they break the band up. We shall see. Kerr & Curry & Green might keep it together.

I’m hoping KD rehabs on GS’s dime. Same for Thompson. Everybody gets to negotiate so this could also be part of the mess.

On the other coast I’m happy with RJ and wouldn’t mind scoring another pick if the price is right.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 14, 2019, 08:39:15 AM
Klay

Do we know its a torn ACL yet?

Another target for NY for long term
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on June 14, 2019, 08:42:37 AM
Warriors confirmed it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 14, 2019, 08:56:56 AM
 Thanks YG.


Kyrie to the Nets

First time we lose a free agent to them while going head up?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 14, 2019, 08:57:50 AM
At least we found out quick.
Title: Embarrassment of riches
Post by: Kam on June 14, 2019, 11:17:17 AM
Warriors will pay $350 million next season (salaries and taxes) for their roster with Klay and KD getting maxes in the rehab room.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 14, 2019, 11:58:23 AM
Ive been saying the Nets a better destination.
And the way the Knix treated Melo/KZ/Noah, plus all the losing seasons, didn't exactly make the Knix a prime FA destination.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 14, 2019, 12:52:32 PM
It will be for someone.

I dont fault Kyrie for going with the better coach.
Title: Nets
Post by: Kam on June 14, 2019, 12:56:58 PM
Already have an All-Star PG.

If they lose Russell because they chased Kyrie they're not much better.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 14, 2019, 01:52:08 PM
Kyrie may have been fed up in Boston, but I'm surprised he's supposedly* taking Brooklyn over the Clippers; the latter offers the better chance to win while still allowing him to be the best player on the team. Otherwise, the Lakers are also an option.

Brooklyn seems to be the "best team in the city in which I want to play' option.

Except for the part where it is bad for the Knicks, I'm happy for Brooklyn and impressed at what they've pulled off. And of course tickled at the symmetry of an Ainge-acquired Celtic leaving to be a Net.

*It's Kyrie. I'll believe it less with him than any other player.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 14, 2019, 02:16:00 PM
The Lakers are NOT an option.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 14, 2019, 02:19:53 PM
Yeah... losing Zizic and Sexton for what Irving ended up giving them doesn't seem to be Danny's wisest moment

Coupled with Gordie move.....?  Ouch.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 14, 2019, 02:24:56 PM
Knicks have picked up Trier's option.
Title: 2019-2020 season has begun
Post by: Kam on June 14, 2019, 02:41:46 PM
We picked up Zo's option.  Let's go.  Anything is possible.  Fuck Brooklyn!
Title: Re: 2019-2020 season has begun
Post by: facilitatorn on June 14, 2019, 02:52:40 PM
Quote from: Kam on June 14, 2019, 02:41:46 PM
We picked up Zo's option.  Let's go.  Anything is possible.  Fuck Brooklyn!

Trier is gonna light it up.
Title: ZO signing means
Post by: Kam on June 14, 2019, 02:58:37 PM
We officially don't have enough money to sign Durant and another 7-9yr MAX guy now.

We can still sign two 7-9yr Max deals.

So either NYK is signalling:

( ) NO DURANT

or

( ) The bizarre fantasy some here (not me) have of ONLY DURANT, tank again and wait for next year's FAs for the 2nd Max guy.

or

( ) Tobias Harris and Kemba Walker
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 14, 2019, 04:15:42 PM
We still have 70.5 left. Toby + Dlo = 56 (28 each) along with money left and exceptions to bring back D’Andre, Vonleh, and Luke

DJ Mitch Kornet
Harris Vonleh
Knox Barrett
Dotson Trier Frank
Russell DJS Allen
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 14, 2019, 05:10:21 PM
Knox/Barrett?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 14, 2019, 07:28:28 PM
Walker has stated he would take LESS than max to stay in Charlotte.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 15, 2019, 01:23:36 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 14, 2019, 07:28:28 PM
Walker has stated he would take LESS than max to stay in Charlotte.

D'angelo might be a Knick after all.  Your dream come true.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 15, 2019, 02:30:54 AM
http://www.thestepien.com/2019/06/13/uniqueness-brandon-clarke/ (http://www.thestepien.com/2019/06/13/uniqueness-brandon-clarke/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 15, 2019, 03:49:05 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 14, 2019, 04:15:42 PM
We still have 70.5 left. Toby + Dlo = 56 (28 each) along with money left and exceptions to bring back D’Andre, Vonleh, and Luke

Wow.  You want to spend $28M per year long term on tertiary FA's like Tobias and Tangelo?  Yikes x 2

Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 14, 2019, 07:28:28 PM
Walker has stated he would take LESS than max to stay in Charlotte.

I think that needs some qualification.
By making the all-NBA team, Kemb is eligible for a huge contract.  And the gap between what CHA and a non-CHA team can offer is vast.
So my understanding is he is willing to take less than the full max from CHA, as long as it's well above the max he can get in FA elsewhere.
Basically a bargaining tactic.

Here are the numbers:
Quote
Because Walker was named to an All-NBA team this season, the Hornets can offer him a five-year supermax contract worth up to $221 million -- significantly more than the five-year, $190 million deal he would have qualified for had he not been named All-NBA.

Other teams can offer only a four-year deal worth $140 million when free agency begins June 30.

So less might be 5/$200M, which is $5M more per year than he could get anywhere else, with a 5th guaranteed season at $40M.  Basically, he'd leave $20M on the CHA table, and pocket a $10M bonus for making the all-NBA team.

Will Jordan agree to pay big bucks for Kemba?  Go into the lux tax.  Lose Jer lamb.  Etc.
The closer CHA is to offering $200M guaranteed, the more likely Kemba remains a Hornet.  If they try to discount him to say 4/$160, then he'll likely look around.  GAd, $40M a year for Kemba Walker ...?
I'd pass on $35M a year if I were the Knickers.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 15, 2019, 05:36:51 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on June 15, 2019, 03:49:05 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 14, 2019, 04:15:42 PM
We still have 70.5 left. Toby + Dlo = 56 (28 each) along with money left and exceptions to bring back D’Andre, Vonleh, and Luke

Wow.  You want to spend $28M per year long term on tertiary FA's like Tobias and Tangelo?  Yikes x 2


The primaries are all broken or Khawi, who we should take a shot at, but will stay in Toronto.

The secondaries are pretty much all getting 35 million to start and are a lot closer to the tertiaries in impact than they are to the primaries.

This together means we should be in the market for tertiary or third tier FA’s in a set who are complimentary both to each other and to the pieces we are developing here.

I’m talking about two guys in the 10-20 ranking among this FA group in terms of proven production while being young enough to develop with our core and also young enough that their years in service cap the money we can give them. If we can get great guys for less somehow let’s do it, but it’s likely we’ll have competition and will need to fork over the cash. Because of the lower max for newer players, we’ll still have a budget to fill out the roster.

Also Toby may only want to ink for the time he needs to put in till he hits the next category of max salary. This may apply to guys like Middleton as well.

I don’t know the exact circumstances which would pretty much be the exact terms of the max formula in this CBA along with how many years are left on the CBA and the ages and years of service of the interesting FA prospects. We’ll also want the actual factual cap number which has yet to be announced. Beans are being counted even as I type these words.

Tobias
D’Angelo
Middleton
Randle

Significantly sub-max but still good money for Marcus Morris, Thad Young, Boogie Cousins, and Rudy Gay. If the Bucks have to cap out to keep Middleton, an RFA bid on Brogdon wouldn’t be a terrible idea.

It’s a new world since they got the demolition underway early in Oakland ahead of the move to SF. Numbers 2 and 4 on the overall list I no longer want to enlist.

That’s what I got so far in this new landscape.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 15, 2019, 08:19:33 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 15, 2019, 05:36:51 AM
Significantly sub-max but still good money for Marcus Morris, Thad Young, Boogie Cousins, and Rudy Gay.

Not interested in that quartet for reasons of age, fit, attitude.

Quote
If the Bucks have to cap out to keep Middleton, an RFA bid on Brogdon wouldn’t be a terrible idea.

Do like those Buckaroos.
But unlikely.
Good idea trying to steal Brogdon with a sizable FA offer.
Smart combo guard.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 15, 2019, 08:45:36 AM
Lux tax?  Lose Lamb?  Huh?

Point was Kemba, who has already greatly endeared himself to the CHA fan base, is allowing Hornets more room.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 15, 2019, 10:42:12 AM
CHA a small market team.  And not doing much winning.
If you commit $40M per or whatever for Kemba, that leaves them with little room to improve the team.  Lamb is a FA and would incur lux tax to keep him.  Which CHA traditionally is loathe to pay.  Especially when they have a mediocre team.
While Monk is cheap.

Kemba knows he's not getting the super-max he is eligible for.
IMO, 60/40 he stays in CHA, based on what they are likely to offer him and what he can get elsewhere.  If I were KW, I wouldn't be taking less money to come to a piffly NYK team, regardless of the hometown allure.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 15, 2019, 11:56:15 AM
Really, I'd be looking for the next Montrezl, Oladipo, early Middleton -- guys with potential to break out, rather than overpaying for guys like Tangelo who put together one pretty good season.  Though he is young and can improve further (especially with turnovers and shot selection).

Here are some fellers I'm interested in.
Some more available than others.

Richuan Holmes -- hardworker
Sabonis -- skilled, but might not fit well with Turner
Khem Birch -- on the cheap
Brogdon -- RFA
Jeremy Lamb if not pricey
Meyers Leonard, especially if we can get a sweetener for taking him on
Uber Kelly, if not too pricey
Harry Giles -- if SAC gets foolish with their frontcourt crush
Rubio
Joe Harris
Danuel House
Batum if given sweeteners
Pa Bev - FA, I believe
Juancho
Kurucs
Sterling Brown
DJ Wilson
Stan Johnson
Okogie

My favorite pickups in bold.
There are some other guys I like, but adding a Tim Frazier when our PG slot is clogged with backups already, while Thon Maker (or Zubac) makes little sense when we have Mitch.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 15, 2019, 12:22:43 PM
That’s a really good list. I’d add JaMychal Green to that list, also a UFA.

Another older dude like Rudy or Taj to work with D’Andre Jordan, setting culture and still playing effectively, wouldn’t hurt. Doesn’t have to be four years. Two years with a third as a team option for bigger money and as a player option for less would work.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 15, 2019, 05:11:50 PM
CHA has $85M committed next season to Batum, Biyombo, Zeller, MKG and Marvin Williams.  Assuming MKG opts in for $13M -- which is more than his market value, imo.

$40M for Kemba has them hit $125M for 6 players.
Monk & Bridges add nearly $8M.  $133M / 8 players.

#12 pick is what, around $3M?
Another 5 more slots at $1.5M = $7.5M more ($143M)

Decision to make on Lamb & Frank Tank.
You sign Kemba and those two cost a lot with lux tax.
That's why Lamb would almost certainly be gone if Kemba stays.

Last year MIA had the highest payroll at $153M.  Warriors $146M.
CHA isn't paying $153M or more to keep the same team as last year (re-signing Kemba and Lamb).

They're in a tough payroll position.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 15, 2019, 05:35:45 PM
https://www.nbadraft.net/situational-analysis-rj-barrett (https://www.nbadraft.net/situational-analysis-rj-barrett)

First thing first.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on June 15, 2019, 07:55:45 PM
AD to LA

Pels get Ball. Ingram, Hart, 3 #1s

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26981805/lakers-reach-deal-pelicans-davis (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26981805/lakers-reach-deal-pelicans-davis)



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on June 15, 2019, 08:07:19 PM
Welcome to the [endless] suck...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 15, 2019, 08:20:11 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on June 15, 2019, 07:55:45 PM
AD to LA

Pels get Ball. Ingram, Kuzma, 3 #1s

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26981805/lakers-reach-deal-pelicans-davis (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26981805/lakers-reach-deal-pelicans-davis)

Ball, Ingram, Hart, and pick swap options spanning the next 7 years.

Hershel Walker trade redux.

For the Knicks bullet dodged.
Title: Slow build
Post by: Kam on June 15, 2019, 08:31:33 PM
Welcome RJ Barrett
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on June 15, 2019, 10:46:40 PM
So likely we'll suck for longer and/or sign a gimpy 31 year old KD to come back at 33 because he can shoot.

Looking forward to RJ killing it in summer league and being hailed an all-star immediately. Wait...didn't that happen last summer with Knox? Was I dreaming???

1 for sure, 2 probably, and possibly 3 more years of trash lies ahead. Maybe Mitch becomes a superstar, while our past forever haunts us.

Rationalization of what things are like for us: Enjoy "the growth" of young players that have some quality, but mostly rated less highly than our fans do.

Reality: Watch out for the Nets growing into the team for the new NY each year even if we have a FAR more dedicated, yet OLDER, fanbase. (Barclays full still a tomb)

I know...way to see things is stay the course, "accumulate assets" (Welcome to being an NBA fan...one of the least friendly leagues to casual fandom for understanding team construction and more conducive to lawyers, economists and internet nerrds) and merely "wait" for when "the next NBA star" asks to be traded.

I see more and more why fans follow the good teams or just star players and why teams are increasingly secondary. It happens in a lot of sports globally more so now unless you follow a team like the Lakers who get what they want due to reputation. It's all about neoliberal capitalism, a love story. We came close to this with KD, so that's something, but next summer is a complete joke for free agency as we know, so not sure how that's going to work for us at all.

So, 1-2 more seasons of mediocrity likely at best, baring a trade of "assets" hence why we're apparently still willing to sign KD.

That's a spin job on a very sad situation that basically means I am more in the go young and suck, yet questions about the new NBA lottery system makes that more complicated. Grapple with all that and it's just too difficult to really come to a fair understanding of what makes most sense. I don't envy Perry and Mills at all right now.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 15, 2019, 10:50:27 PM
Herschel Walker trade redux

https://www.nba.com/article/2019/06/15/report-anthony-davis-lakers?collection=news
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on June 15, 2019, 10:55:25 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 15, 2019, 10:50:27 PM
Herschel Walker trade redux

https://www.nba.com/article/2019/06/15/report-anthony-davis-lakers?collection=news

Except one superstar player in the NBA vs one superstar player in the NFL have drastically different meanings, especially if the team already has one.

Also, the only player on an NFL team that you should make a trade like that for is a quarterback, and even that is complicated.

The Lakers are currently favorites to win the title.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on June 15, 2019, 11:18:53 PM
I don't see anyone signing KD being a smart idea. It's like flipping a coin to me. Willing to bet hundreds of millions on that? NBA teams like us are because the superstar value is so insane.

That's why the Lakers gave up the farm and the front porch. Miami/Riley obliterated everyone years ago to create a super team in one summer.

The outlook is much bleaker now for us. It's pretty much Lebron's decision part 2 right now, IMHO.

Last time we went for Amare. This time...different, I expect, but still a blow that might lead to success later, but might not as I don't see any clear superstars coming now.

Kawhi is really the last hope and that's a longggg shot.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 16, 2019, 12:07:58 AM
2019-20 is Kevin Durant's age 31 season

For 2020-21 he will be 32 throughout.

Just thought I'd clear that up
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 16, 2019, 04:19:28 AM
So Kawhi wins a title and never seemed like a NY kind of guy.
KD tears his achilles and comes to NY for surgery.
AD is traded to the Lakes.

Knix have lots of cap space and no one to spend it on.
Again, I'm fine rolling with yute:
Jr. Smith - Barrett - Knox - Vonleh - Mitch
Franc - Trier/Dot - Re-sign Deandre.   Can pay him a lot for a year or two.  Bring in another vet.
Maybe pick up a quality FA in the $10M - $15M range.  or not.
Try to snag some talent on the cheap.  Find a range sniper.
Can always overpay somebody on a 1 year deal (preferably an F who defends).

Win 20+ games and get another Top 7 pick next year.
Build a team through the draft, hoping one of your picks becomes a star.  While waiting for a good FA, and trying to have assets to trade for the next available star.    A steady flexible plan.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 16, 2019, 04:43:00 AM
That was the deal the Lakes wanted to make.
Keep Kuz.

I'm not a fan of Ingram.  He seems sloppy and a bit lazy.  Focus comes and goes.  Also could get injured playing as a toothpick. 
Ball should be a nice fit alongside JRue and Zion.  If he stays healthy.  JRue and Ball will form a tough backcourt defense.
With the #4 pick, they should take a wing (SF).

Ball - JRue - #4 pick - Ingram - Zion
Elfrid? - ETwuan - Sol Hill/StanJohn? - Randle -

Interesting team.
Might or might not work.
If Zion is in the Barkley/Kemp mold, they have a lot of promise.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 16, 2019, 09:59:37 AM
Pels will be very very good.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 16, 2019, 10:00:53 AM
I wouldnt expect Randle to stay there.  He will get a huge offer, maybe from NY
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on June 16, 2019, 10:37:34 AM
Glad Ainge sat out the AD auction.
 I didn't like the 1-year rental risk.

Pels did pretty good.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on June 16, 2019, 11:24:22 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on June 16, 2019, 04:19:28 AM
So Kawhi wins a title and never seemed like a NY kind of guy.
KD tears his achilles and comes to NY for surgery.
AD is traded to the Lakes.

Knix have lots of cap space and no one to spend it on.
Again, I'm fine rolling with yute:
Jr. Smith - Barrett - Knox - Vonleh - Mitch
Franc - Trier/Dot - Re-sign Deandre.   Can pay him a lot for a year or two.  Bring in another vet.
Maybe pick up a quality FA in the $10M - $15M range.  or not.
Try to snag some talent on the cheap.  Find a range sniper.
Can always overpay somebody on a 1 year deal (preferably an F who defends).

Win 20+ games and get another Top 7 pick next year.
Build a team through the draft, hoping one of your picks becomes a star.  While waiting for a good FA, and trying to have assets to trade for the next available star.    A steady flexible plan.

At this point, I'm mostly with you.

I think we should use our cap space to take on a bad contract or maybe 2 for next season (2 seasons?) from other teams who want rid in order to gain more draft picks/assets (young-ish) players. As far as I also understand we need to take more contacts on anyway as you can't go into the season under a certain amount of salary.

I'd also be open to signing Russell for $20m a season (if Nets go for Kyrie instead) and then consider taking a short term bad-ish expiring 2021 contract vet from some team wanting be under the lux tax or whatever for assets since next summer is not helping get you a superstar, and then hope to flip whatever assets we need to in a trade for "the next superstar" in a year or so.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 16, 2019, 11:46:21 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on June 15, 2019, 05:11:50 PM
CHA has $85M committed next season to Batum, Biyombo, Zeller, MKG and Marvin Williams.  Assuming MKG opts in for $13M -- which is more than his market value, imo.

$40M for Kemba has them hit $125M for 6 players.
Monk & Bridges add nearly $8M.  $133M / 8 players.

#12 pick is what, around $3M?
Another 5 more slots at $1.5M = $7.5M more ($143M)

Decision to make on Lamb & Frank Tank.
You sign Kemba and those two cost a lot with lux tax.
That's why Lamb would almost certainly be gone if Kemba stays.

Last year MIA had the highest payroll at $153M.  Warriors $146M.
CHA isn't paying $153M or more to keep the same team as last year (re-signing Kemba and Lamb).

They're in a tough payroll position.

A few comments:

Kemba won't quite be making $40m. Plan for 30, but with five years and higher raises than other teams can offer.

Lamb will be a hot commodity. I can't see him signing for less than $12m per. Someone is going to take a risk. Same with Rodney Hood. Shooters will come at a premium. I don't see how it makes sense for Charlotte, however, to keep him unless they send out MKG and Batum. Maybe you can rid yourself of MKG without giving up much, but a lightly protected 1st will be needed to ditch Batum. Even a proper lottery-protected 1st won't be enough.

Kaminsky is gone. Not sure where, but they're not going to be able to afford him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 16, 2019, 11:51:13 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on June 16, 2019, 04:19:28 AM
So Kawhi wins a title and never seemed like a NY kind of guy.
KD tears his achilles and comes to NY for surgery.
AD is traded to the Lakes.

Knix have lots of cap space and no one to spend it on.
Again, I'm fine rolling with yute:
Jr. Smith - Barrett - Knox - Vonleh - Mitch
Franc - Trier/Dot - Re-sign Deandre.   Can pay him a lot for a year or two.  Bring in another vet.
Maybe pick up a quality FA in the $10M - $15M range.  or not.
Try to snag some talent on the cheap.  Find a range sniper.
Can always overpay somebody on a 1 year deal (preferably an F who defends).

Win 20+ games and get another Top 7 pick next year.
Build a team through the draft, hoping one of your picks becomes a star.  While waiting for a good FA, and trying to have assets to trade for the next available star.    A steady flexible plan.

It's funny how many things have gone wrong for the Knicks since the season ended:

- Fell from 1st to 3rd in the lottery (which wasn't actually that bad in a three person draft, given the odds). What was actually a problem was the Lakers jumping to 4th.
- KD is missed by the Warriors, perhaps healing some wounds
- Speaking of wounds, KD's tendon. It wasn't unreasonable to think he was coming to the NYK. Less likely now.
- Even Klay getting hurt is problematic. He might have been an option to sign with the Lakers, meaning one less competitor for all-star free agents.
- Kawhi is more likely to stay after the euphoria of a championship. One less all-star for all of NY's major competitors to fight over
- AD doesn't come to the Knicks. Moreover, Kemba now a strong candidate to go to LA. Coupled with Kyrie to Brooklyn, the Knicks are almost out of free agents who can appreciably change NY's outlook in the immediate term.

Anyhow, all that to say, I've been arguing as well for what Bo's saying here. I'm ok with prolonging the pain. Let's be the Hawks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 16, 2019, 01:25:31 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on June 16, 2019, 11:46:21 AM
Kemba won't quite be making $40m. Plan for 30, but with five years and higher raises than other teams can offer.

If CHA only offers $30M, Kemba could get 4/$140M elsewhere.
Instead of a 5th year guarantee from CHA, KW could go to a winning team.  Play with LeBJ & AD.  Or the Clippers.  Magic?

CHA is on the treadmill of mediocrity.  They need to either come across with a lot of money, or Kemba could well fly.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 16, 2019, 02:02:31 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on June 16, 2019, 01:25:31 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on June 16, 2019, 11:46:21 AM
Kemba won't quite be making $40m. Plan for 30, but with five years and higher raises than other teams can offer.

If CHA only offers $30M, Kemba could get 4/$140M elsewhere.
Instead of a 5th year guarantee from CHA, KW could go to a winning team.  Play with LeBJ & AD.  Or the Clippers.  Magic?

CHA is on the treadmill of mediocrity.  They need to either come across with a lot of money, or Kemba could well fly.

I agree, and I actually think it's a bad basketball move (if a good PR move) to sign Kemba to anything close to the supermax.

But:

a) Other teams can offer him around $30m to start, while the Hornets can go up to $38m
b) The Hornets have higher annual raises and the fifth year to offer. For a smallish guard on his last big contract, that fifth year is worth an awful lot
c) He has already said he will consider taking less than the max.
d) Hornets are going to need some financial flexibility to make re-signing Kemba sensible. So they will be motivated to draw the line somewhere south of the $38m starting point.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 16, 2019, 03:45:09 PM
Quote from: Kam on June 15, 2019, 01:23:36 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 14, 2019, 07:28:28 PM
Walker has stated he would take LESS than max to stay in Charlotte.

D'angelo might be a Knick after all.  Your dream come true.

I guess.  With RANDLE?  Let's go!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 16, 2019, 03:47:27 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on June 16, 2019, 10:37:34 AM
Glad Ainge sat out the AD auction.
 

A wise man you are, though not too sure Danny sat out entirely
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 16, 2019, 03:51:55 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on June 16, 2019, 01:25:31 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on June 16, 2019, 11:46:21 AM
Kemba won't quite be making $40m. Plan for 30, but with five years and higher raises than other teams can offer.

If CHA only offers $30M, Kemba could get 4/$140M elsewhere.
Instead of a 5th year guarantee from CHA, KW could go to a winning team.  Play with LeBJ & AD.  Or the Clippers.  Magic?

CHA is on the treadmill of mediocrity.  They need to either come across with a lot of money, or Kemba could well fly.

Sounding VERY MUCH like Walker is staying in Charlotte.  I don't think he misses the northeast one bitty bit.
Title: Malcolm Brogdon RFA should be our main target now
Post by: Kam on June 16, 2019, 10:36:38 PM
Make Brogdon an offer MIL can't match.   
He is only 26.
Title: Re: Malcolm Brogdon RFA should be our main target now
Post by: FWK00 on June 16, 2019, 11:06:02 PM
Quote from: Kam on June 16, 2019, 10:36:38 PM
Make Brogdon an offer MIL can't match.   
He is only 26.

Yes, that makes DSJ expendable.
Title: Re: Malcolm Brogdon RFA should be our main target now
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 17, 2019, 01:34:16 AM
Quote from: Kam on June 16, 2019, 10:36:38 PM
Make Brogdon an offer MIL can't match.   
He is only 26.

Love Brogdon but is there an offer Knicks would make which Milwaukee wouldn't match?

Certainly I'd offer a four year deal starting at $18m per. Presuming Middleton gets near the max, and Lopez will get an offer near $10m per, that's going to be painful for Milwaukee to match.

The good thing about Brogdon is that he's an excellent fit next to RJ, and since he can play both guard positions you don't need to trade DSJ right away (or at all, even). You can see how they all fit together.

I prefer Brogdon at 18 to D'Angelo at 25, even though I doubt Brogdon will ever be a starter. I just think I'd roll the dice that RJ can be the primary creator that Brogdon needs to play beside.

All that said, if D'Angelo comes over and we trade DSJ for some future asset, I'll be fine with that as well.

Not sure about Randle's fit next to Mitch. I think we need a PF who can shoot, even if Mitch can make up for Randle's defensive deficiencies and Randle would be a fun fit on a young team looking to run.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 17, 2019, 02:32:01 AM
The Frog is my favorite NBA player.
Versatile, smart, crafty, resourceful, plays hard.

Would love to poach him from MIL.
$18M sounds like a lot.
But to get a player who competes and can handle both G spots is important.  Too bad half our team is comprised of G's already.
Do I hear $20M anyone?
(actually I was thinking around $15M -- but you need to overpay to secure an RFA, and he's young and good).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 17, 2019, 03:03:53 AM
I haven't really looked at NY cap space carefully.
If we wanted to go the 3rd tier FA route, and could poach Brogdon (RFA).  Then I'd be intrigued with Rubio or Pa Bev.  We'd add passing and defense and smarts.  The Frog is a good 3-point shooter but a bit reluctant.  Rubio not a 3-man.  Pa Bev a 3&D PG.
Rubio 28; Pa Bev 30. 
If we kept DeAndretheGiant, we'd be signing a trio of defenders in FA.

Rubio/Pa Bev -- Jr. Smith/Franc
Brogdon    --  Trier
Barrett      --  Dotson
Knox         --  Vonleh
Mitch Rob  --  Deandre

Rubio probably makes more sense given age and durability.  But Knick fans would love PaBev careening around like mad.  Not sure how much either would cost.

We could roll out a defensive squad of Rubio-Frog-someone-Vonleh-Mitch at times.  A lot would depend on Knox/Barrett.  But having a solid/strong set of Guards would make life easier for our wing yute.  Gaining stability is important. 

Another lottery year would get us another good pick.  Or we make the playoffs in the weak East.  Both good.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 17, 2019, 04:44:50 AM
I wouldn't mind being a young team and going with Mitch and Kornet at C.

We could skip DeAndretheGiant and add another vet on an inflated 1 year deal.   Ariza, Rude Gay, DeMarre, Wil.  All aging vets who play D, can cover both F spots, can mentor and fill in for Knox and Barrett, etc.
Other cheaper options: Deng, Decker, Dudley, Rich Holmes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 17, 2019, 09:22:44 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on June 17, 2019, 02:32:01 AM
The Frog is my favorite NBA player.


That's beautiful
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 17, 2019, 10:49:22 AM
Dray Green is 2nd  . . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Not Elephant on June 17, 2019, 11:21:48 AM
So if the forum here have resigned themselves to no superstar and a youth movement, then the question of a coach comes up again, no?

Fizdale did a lousy job bringing out the best of a young team. Can you disagree? And if not, what makes you think anything will change?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 17, 2019, 12:14:37 PM
It seems that Frank is the only player with any potential beef about player management, which is a sign of one good thing accomplished by the staff. I’m willing to give Fizz a year to put his system in with more eye on results.

I’d be fine with Brogdon at 18 mil or under. Julius Randle would be a nice pickup to play PF. He got his threes up to 34% last year. Going after a cheaper vet also makes some sense.

For the Pels, draft Zion 1 and Clarke at 4. They’ll have the two best lob targets in the league just from the draft. Then sign Vucavic or possibly Boogie as plan B.

Vucavic
Zion
Ingram Clarke
Holiday Hart
Ball

This is a damn good passing team with scary perimeter D. Nic V provides some vertical spacing. I think that team could be trouble in the West this turbulent year and would likely outpace the Lakers.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 17, 2019, 12:54:29 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on June 17, 2019, 10:49:22 AM
Dray Green is 2nd  . . .

I KNOW who that is
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 17, 2019, 01:02:27 PM
Quote from: Not Elephant on June 17, 2019, 11:21:48 AM

Fizdale did a lousy job bringing out the best of a young team.

OK.

Quote from: Not Elephant on June 17, 2019, 11:21:48 AM

Can you disagree?


With what; your opinion which you do not back up with any supporting facts?   Sure.

Not going to do your work for you.   Post why he should go and who should be hired.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on June 17, 2019, 01:08:29 PM
No need. We've been there done that x10000.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Not Elephant on June 17, 2019, 01:43:36 PM
Quote from: Kam on June 17, 2019, 01:02:27 PM
Quote from: Not Elephant on June 17, 2019, 11:21:48 AM

Fizdale did a lousy job bringing out the best of a young team.

OK.

Quote from: Not Elephant on June 17, 2019, 11:21:48 AM

Can you disagree?


With what; your opinion which you do not back up with any supporting facts?   Sure.

Not going to do your work for you.   Post why he should go and who should be hired.

What! Come on, man, your request for "supporting facts" is fatuous. There's not a thousand viewers on this forum; can I just presume none of us are hopelessly senile, and we remember the arguments, disappointments and perspectives toward the coach without wallowing through all that shit?

Even for the deranged devotees who loved the notion of tanking — an art which Fizdale apparently does have a handle on — you have to get a little queasy how an alternative approach across the river panned out.

Anyhow, I'm more struck by the broader quandary — the image of the organization. PR plays a role in recruitment. If the Knicks changed coaches, their reputation would take another hit. Is that a variable to consider? Or do you just find the best coach for the job. Period.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 17, 2019, 01:58:47 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on June 17, 2019, 03:03:53 AM
I haven't really looked at NY cap space carefully.
If we wanted to go the 3rd tier FA route, and could poach Brogdon (RFA).  Then I'd be intrigued with Rubio or Pa Bev.  We'd add passing and defense and smarts.  The Frog is a good 3-point shooter but a bit reluctant.  Rubio not a 3-man.  Pa Bev a 3&D PG.
Rubio 28; Pa Bev 30. 
If we kept DeAndretheGiant, we'd be signing a trio of defenders in FA.

Rubio/Pa Bev -- Jr. Smith/Franc
Brogdon    --  Trier
Barrett      --  Dotson
Knox         --  Vonleh
Mitch Rob  --  Deandre

Rubio probably makes more sense given age and durability.  But Knick fans would love PaBev careening around like mad.  Not sure how much either would cost.

We could roll out a defensive squad of Rubio-Frog-someone-Vonleh-Mitch at times.  A lot would depend on Knox/Barrett.  But having a solid/strong set of Guards would make life easier for our wing yute.  Gaining stability is important. 

Another lottery year would get us another good pick.  Or we make the playoffs in the weak East.  Both good.

I think that is too many guards. You still need to have time. Also, I think a young team like this needs to run.

I'd target a starting lineup of: DSJ-Brogdon-RJ-Randle-Mitch. I'd want to know there was playing time for Frank-Knox-Vonleh. The other two rotation spots are less important to me, but I want those first eight guys to have a clear role. If it's DeAndre instead of Julius Randle (or Nikola Mirotic?), a little less excited given I want to see Mitch get run.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 17, 2019, 02:21:25 PM
"Knicks discussed several assets in potential AD offer including Frank, DSJ, 3rd pick + other draft picks, but never fully offered Knox or prized center Robinson, both of whom franchise is very high on while Pels were not believed to be"

I bet Knicks would feel differently had they had a healthy Durant committed.

Not sure if I should read this that the Knicks value Knox and Mitch more than RJ, or if they knew the deal couldn't be done without RJ.

Am I alone in preferring RJ to any other Knicks asset?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 17, 2019, 06:17:30 PM
Knicks were bringing AD in with no poiint guard

Thatw ould have been grand.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 17, 2019, 07:04:15 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on June 17, 2019, 02:21:25 PM

Am I alone in preferring RJ to any other Knicks asset?

Nope.  I'm very happy we get to select RJ on Thursday.  He will be the leader of the team immediately.  Mitch and Knox seem like nice guys. RJ seems like a killer.  Perfect guy to lead the troops.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 17, 2019, 07:12:52 PM
Quote from: Not Elephant on June 17, 2019, 01:43:36 PM
Quote from: Kam on June 17, 2019, 01:02:27 PM
Quote from: Not Elephant on June 17, 2019, 11:21:48 AM

Fizdale did a lousy job bringing out the best of a young team.

OK.

Quote from: Not Elephant on June 17, 2019, 11:21:48 AM

Can you disagree?


With what; your opinion which you do not back up with any supporting facts?   Sure.

Not going to do your work for you.   Post why he should go and who should be hired.

What! Come on, man, your request for "supporting facts" is fatuous. There's not a thousand viewers on this forum; can I just presume none of us are hopelessly senile, and we remember the arguments, disappointments and perspectives toward the coach without wallowing through all that shit?

Even for the deranged devotees who loved the notion of tanking — an art which Fizdale apparently does have a handle on — you have to get a little queasy how an alternative approach across the river panned out.

Anyhow, I'm more struck by the broader quandary — the image of the organization. PR plays a role in recruitment. If the Knicks changed coaches, their reputation would take another hit. Is that a variable to consider? Or do you just find the best coach for the job. Period.

Well since you're only really asking for opinions from those who already agree with your stance than Fizdale should go then if i was of the same belief i would say for the image of the organization it makes sense to not make a change.  Fizdale is respected league-wide.   You give him a chance to win with the guys he developed.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 17, 2019, 09:54:43 PM
http://hoopshype.com/player/ersan-ilyasova/ (http://hoopshype.com/player/ersan-ilyasova/)

If this is true, I’d offer them the very waivable Henry Ellison or Billy Garrett for Ilya and a pick.

He’d make a great Mitch partner and Kornet tutor. It’s 7 million flat for This year and next & there aren’t 2 max guys we want anymore.

Ilya and #30 for a waivable player and #55.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on June 17, 2019, 10:03:31 PM
So RJ was interviewed on an ESPN show and speaks French.  That could give he and Frankie a very nice advantage on the court.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on June 17, 2019, 10:14:43 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 17, 2019, 09:54:43 PM
http://hoopshype.com/player/ersan-ilyasova/ (http://hoopshype.com/player/ersan-ilyasova/)

Ilya and #30 for a waivable player and #55.

I like it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: LarryBnDC on June 17, 2019, 10:24:39 PM
MAYBE one day I’ll see a good franchise in NYC if I outlive Dolan...

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 17, 2019, 10:27:29 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 17, 2019, 09:54:43 PM
http://hoopshype.com/player/ersan-ilyasova/ (http://hoopshype.com/player/ersan-ilyasova/)

If this is true, I’d offer them the very waivable Henry Ellison or Billy Garrett for Ilya and a pick.

He’d make a great Mitch partner and Kornet tutor. It’s 7 million flat for This year and next & there aren’t 2 max guys we want anymore.

Ilya and #30 for a waivable player and #55.

Ersan has his own rumor page?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 17, 2019, 11:47:03 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 17, 2019, 10:27:29 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 17, 2019, 09:54:43 PM
http://hoopshype.com/player/ersan-ilyasova/ (http://hoopshype.com/player/ersan-ilyasova/)

If this is true, I’d offer them the very waivable Henry Ellison or Billy Garrett for Ilya and a pick.

He’d make a great Mitch partner and Kornet tutor. It’s 7 million flat for This year and next & there aren’t 2 max guys we want anymore.

Ilya and #30 for a waivable player and #55.

Ersan has his own rumor page?

Haha. Well done.

I'd do the deal if our intel says two all-stars aren't coming.

But Milwaukee surely is hoping to use that pick to move Snell, not Licensed to Ilya (that's for you, Bo).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 18, 2019, 12:23:29 AM
Newsflash:  CP3 Annoying; Harden Headstrong (https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/rockets-james-harden-chris-paul-spent-much-of-last-season-struggling-to-coexist-per-report/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 18, 2019, 01:11:11 AM
Rising on draft boards: Rui, Goga, Sekou, Garland, PJ Washington, Kabengele

Falling: Hayes, Langford, Bol, THT, Grant Williams, Jontay
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 18, 2019, 04:08:03 AM
I've got to pull for Goga, since I was just in Georgia.  Nobody in the Caucasus was much interested in basketball.  They're big on football, but their national team aren't good.  Though one star on Arsenal is an Armenian.

I only ran into one guy who talked some basketball.
He mentioned Zaza Pachulia, and reminded me of Viktor Sanikidze.  I chipped in Tornike Shengelia.  Actually for such a small country there have been a fair amount of Georgians in the NBA.  Vladimir Stepania, Nikoloz Tskitishvili (a #5 pick and huge bust -- career 30% FG for a 7'). 

I guess Zaza has been the best.
Hopefully Goga Bitadze can top that.
7' 250 with an outside stroke.  Some concern about his foot speed and being able to defend the perimeter.  But he's supposed to be fairly skilled.  At 26, he went to play in Serbia where the competition is better and more professional.

I don't know how their hoops league is run, but in Tbilisi twice we rented a vehicle from the grey market.  Once our hotel arranged a rental car from someone they often rec, but there wasn't a genuine company involved.  An entirely fine Toyota Prius (hybrid) for a wine country jaunt.

The 2nd time, we rented an SUV from a big fat bald guy -- just some wrestler-looking dude on the Tbilisi street.  He had 5 pretty nice-looking vehicles parked on the road in front of a genuine rental car office.  The actual rental company wanted between $80 - $90 per day depending on model, while the kicker was we would have to wait an hour plus for them to bring the vehicle through Tbilisi traffic.  While the fat bald "rental company" charged $45 and we took the car after about 5-10 minutes of minor prepping.

I'm not even sure he asked to see a drivers license.  Maybe he did.  The two page contract was some basic doc off the internet, on which he put the date, the license plate # and asked us to sign.  He seemed surprised when I suggested that we actually fill in the daily rental fee on the contract.  He was amenable, and I added the deposit amount I gave him.  He seemed amused at how concerned I was about such formalities.

Who knows how it would have gone if we had any trouble or an accident.  But it was cheap, easy, quick, and we were able to have him meet us at a return point of our choosing in the city.  Actually Tbilisi is a bitch to drive in (even Georgians agreed, and Armenians think the Georgians drive like crap to boot).  So we had our fat bald car company drive to our hotel where we could load our bags and take possession of the car, and I just paid him the cheap return taxi fare.  When there's no company, there're no rules, and service can be pretty flexible.  [For Azerbaijan, we used a very good local rental company, who let us rent the car in Baku and drop it off at the border with Georgia for an extra fee].

All of which is to say, in a rather roundabout way, I wouldn't expect the Georgian basketball league to be a model of professionalism and efficiency.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 18, 2019, 08:06:49 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on June 18, 2019, 12:23:29 AM
Newsflash:  CP3 Annoying; Harden Headstrong (https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/rockets-james-harden-chris-paul-spent-much-of-last-season-struggling-to-coexist-per-report/)

I actually wouldn't mind 3 years of Chris Paul.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 18, 2019, 10:41:28 AM
AL HORFORD has just become an option for Knicks
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on June 18, 2019, 11:02:53 AM
Mitch could learn more from Al in a minute than he could learn from F^%$whale in a lifetime....


*** never done Georgian rent-a-car, but have had some absolutely stellar Georgian pan-fried chicken.

(https://internationalmenu.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/1733-321x232.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 18, 2019, 11:29:17 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on June 18, 2019, 01:11:11 AM
Rising on draft boards: Rui, Goga, Sekou, Garland, PJ Washington, Kabengele

Falling: Hayes, Langford, Bol, THT, Grant Williams, Jontay

Rui?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 18, 2019, 12:03:26 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 18, 2019, 08:06:49 AM
I actually wouldn't mind 3 years of Chris Paul.

Yikes.
CP3 is 34 and turns 35 for next year's playoffs.
He has missed 20+ games each of the last 3 seasons (69 missed games over the last 3 years).  Last year's numbers were the lowest of his career or on par with his rook season.  Old, injury-prone, on-the decline, and owed $40M each of the next 3 years.
What's not to like . . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 18, 2019, 01:19:53 PM
Knicks working out Garland today. Giving him serious consideration, supposedly.

Might be just a favour to Garland (represented by Rich Paul) to help build his trade value. Might be the Knicks are still considering trading down and want to see if they want to take Garland at #4 or lower (Pels want RJ). Or maybe they aren't sold on RJ.

If it's the latter, it will be messy - the Knicks have or have rights to DSJ, Mudiay, and Frank, but they don't have a single playmaking wing with size, which is pretty sine qua non to NBA success these days. Also, I will freely concede I am emotionally committed to RJ on the Knicks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 18, 2019, 02:09:20 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on June 18, 2019, 12:03:26 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 18, 2019, 08:06:49 AM
I actually wouldn't mind 3 years of Chris Paul.

Yikes.
CP3 is 34 and turns 35 for next year's playoffs.


oooooooooooo.....I know, right?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 18, 2019, 02:14:16 PM
Having long liked Barrett - I can still see the positives of Garland - especially if New Orleans wants the 3.

Hearing superlatives on Garland from many sources - and he is #4 in quite a few mocks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 18, 2019, 02:18:25 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on June 18, 2019, 01:19:53 PM
Knicks working out Garland today. Giving him serious consideration, supposedly.

Might be just a favour to Garland (represented by Rich Paul) to help build his trade value. Might be the Knicks are still considering trading down and want to see if they want to take Garland at #4 or lower (Pels want RJ). Or maybe they aren't sold on RJ.

If it's the latter, it will be messy - the Knicks have or have rights to DSJ, Mudiay, and Frank, but they don't have a single playmaking wing with size, which is pretty sine qua non to NBA success these days. Also, I will freely concede I am emotionally committed to RJ on the Knicks.

http://www.sny.tv/knicks/news/rj-barrett-has-been-working-on-these-two-facets-of-his-game-ahead-of-nba-draft/308220166 (http://www.sny.tv/knicks/news/rj-barrett-has-been-working-on-these-two-facets-of-his-game-ahead-of-nba-draft/308220166)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 18, 2019, 02:41:25 PM
Quote
The New York Knicks have declined a recent trade offer that would have sent the No. 3 overall draft pick to the Atlanta Hawks in exchange for the eighth and 10th picks, a source told ESPN's Jonathan Givony.

The Hawks have been aggressively exploring trade scenarios in which they would package the Nos. 8 and 10 picks to move up in Thursday's NBA draft, the source told Givony.

But the Knicks were not interested in moving down to acquire Atlanta's picks, according to the source...

New Orleans is considering the possibility of trading the No. 4 pick to Atlanta for Nos. 8 and 10, the source told Givony.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 18, 2019, 03:07:53 PM
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2841472-5-blockbuster-nba-trades-that-would-blow-up-draft-night#slide5 (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2841472-5-blockbuster-nba-trades-that-would-blow-up-draft-night#slide5)

The last one gives me pause. It’s essentially Beal for Barrett.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 18, 2019, 06:00:34 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on June 18, 2019, 02:41:25 PM
Quote
The New York Knicks have declined a recent trade offer that would have sent the No. 3 overall draft pick to the Atlanta Hawks in exchange for the eighth and 10th picks, a source told ESPN's Jonathan Givony.

The Hawks have been aggressively exploring trade scenarios in which they would package the Nos. 8 and 10 picks to move up in Thursday's NBA draft, the source told Givony.

But the Knicks were not interested in moving down to acquire Atlanta's picks, according to the source...

New Orleans is considering the possibility of trading the No. 4 pick to Atlanta for Nos. 8 and 10, the source told Givony.

Cavs also in it.  #5 for 10 and 17
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 18, 2019, 06:01:31 PM
Hawks would take.......

Culver?
Reddish?
Hunter?
White?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 18, 2019, 06:10:30 PM
 Culver or Hunter. White is redundant and Reddish sucks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 18, 2019, 08:11:33 PM
heh

White scores bigtime.  Is 6-5.  The dual handling backcourt may be here to stay.

But I agree.  Seems Culver is what they are looking at.

Very very curious what NO night be willing to give us to pair RJ with Zion.

Get on that, will ya, Fac?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 18, 2019, 11:09:29 PM
Thought you liked Huerter.

NO can have the 3 for Holiday & 4. Otherwise pass.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 19, 2019, 03:37:33 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 18, 2019, 03:07:53 PM
The last one gives me pause. It’s essentially Beal for Barrett.

Depends how good RJ is projected to be.
And how impatient NYK are.
Knix could surely use the outside shooting and competitiveness Beal offers.  But seems better to hope RJ develops into a Bela-level player for much cheaper.

The other trade ideas are interesting, but this one is awful:

Quote
Hornets Receive: PF Kevin Love, SG Jordan Clarkson
Cavaliers Receive: C Bismack Biyombo, PF Marvin Williams, SG Malik Monk, No. 12 pick

So CHA would give up 2 expiring contracts ($32M total), and two yute for an aging overpaid Love.  Terrible.  Try to get the 7th or 8th seed the next 2 years in exchange for a future?  Yikes.
CHA needs to do something, but preferably something smart ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 19, 2019, 03:45:11 AM
Quote
SHOOTING
Barrett has (1) moved his right hand on the side of the ball for a smoother release, and (2) turned his stance to allow for a more fluid shot. He's also (3) spread his shooting hand, so the backspin on his shot spins tight and lowered his base so he has better rhythm, Hanlen says.

"His pocket slipped up and moved in front of his left eye, so we moved it over and moved his elbow out so he has a good vision triangle," Hanlen said of Barrett, who shot 30.8 percent from beyond the arc last year at Duke.

So RJ merely had to adjust both hands and both feet to shoot better.  Simple.  I guess minor adjustments happen more than we know, and the kid is just 19 so not super-set in his ways.  but altering everything about his shot seems a little worrisome . . .
Even worrisome that it was necessary ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 19, 2019, 04:03:32 AM
With very few exceptions everyone’s shot can be tweaked. It sounds like RJ got a big concentrated dose of shot doctoring. It will be interesting to see what it does to his game. Now that he has a process for that, getting up the next couple of levels defensively is a bigger concern.

Not necessarily, though I’d like it to be, our concern.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 19, 2019, 09:26:29 AM
Heh

Welcome to Bo's annual K Love bashing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 19, 2019, 09:28:20 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 18, 2019, 11:09:29 PM
Thought you liked Huerter.

NO can have the 3 for Holiday & 4. Otherwise pass.

Lol

Cause he's white?

I don't think I have ever commented on the guy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 19, 2019, 09:31:11 AM
Barrett will not shoot a high percentage his first year

I heard a term recently describing another guy - "he's a tough shot TAKER.  Just not yet a tough shot maker"

Contrast this with. a Knox, who pretty much takes straight on Js and dunks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 19, 2019, 09:41:59 AM
Zeller, Batum, Love, Clarkson, Walker, add.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 19, 2019, 09:55:49 AM
And yeah...a 7 seed would be progress for Hornets

No series win since 2002.  Out of playoffs last 3.  40+ wins just three of last 15.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 19, 2019, 09:57:59 AM
I know we are passing on the 3 for 8/10 deal but unless 4-7 go Hunter, Culver, Garland, White in some order, we get one of them.  And also likely Hachimura.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 19, 2019, 10:54:36 AM
Capela to Celts being discussed.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 19, 2019, 11:55:42 AM
Mo Wagner is available from Lakers for picks.  As is isaac Bomba and Jamario Jones.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 19, 2019, 12:28:55 PM
Grizz moves Conley to Jazz. That pretty much confirms they go Morant, leaving us RJ. Good news there.

If the Lakers want space, I’d happily take Wagner and Bonga for 55.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 19, 2019, 12:32:32 PM
Quote from: kiiidcarter8 on December 21, 2018, 09:18:55 PM
Good game.  Maybe we will lose.

Huerter looks solid.  Major hops.

Not a lot of commentary. In fact I only found this. You don’t feel the same today?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 19, 2019, 12:37:42 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 19, 2019, 09:55:49 AM
And yeah...a 7 seed would be progress for Hornets

But at the price of Monk, the #12 pick, and the $32M in ending salaries.  They need to be patient.

There are probably teams that Love could help.  But his contract  ($29M, $31M, $31M) and health are major issues.  Love missed 60 games last year, 23 the year before and 22 before that.  He also turns 31 before the season starts.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 19, 2019, 12:38:23 PM
I think Biz touted Huerter.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 19, 2019, 12:40:09 PM
For only $67M we could have CP3 & Love . . .
.
.
.
.
So how much will Rubio get as a FA?
Title: If we trade for 8 and 10
Post by: Kam on June 19, 2019, 12:54:20 PM
I want Sekou and Goga
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 19, 2019, 01:04:50 PM
I dont think you go big/big

But you are pretty much guaranteed 2 of Reddish/Hachi/Goga/Doumbaya.

If one of them goes top 7 you slot in Coby White, Garland, Hunter or Culver

I like it - but I like dealing down to 4 better if Pels are interested.

Lots of talk today that you "lose" DSJ if he is not THE guy.  So if we are going Garland I would expect a Smith deal.

Hachimura said to have a guarantee at 11, as Ainge grimaces.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 19, 2019, 01:07:08 PM
A 15 min evaluation of RJ's game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zj0_bLCMLlA&feature=youtu.be

Negatives:
1) Decision-making -- he led the NCAA in charges!
2) Shooting
3) Defensive effort/awareness
4) Very left-dependent

I don't see any college ball, so it's hard for me to evaluate since I don't know the level and style.  This analysis thinks RJ will do better in the pros where there is better spacing.  Will be interesting when folks 1) force him right & 2) dare him to shoot form distance.  Also, is his D going to be better than Knox?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 19, 2019, 01:45:21 PM
Will our staff coach defense this year? Knox improved as he went along. Effective strength will help as will the experience. Retaining Jordan would be good for all our young players on that end.

RJ has good tools and some bad habits. Chronologically he should be entering his freshman season. The way he rebounds pushes and finishes translate right away.

If we can get Rubio for 2-3 years at around 10 mil per year, I’d consider it as he’d set a good standard for our puppy guards. I don’t see Jordan or Rubio leading us to the promised land, but they can both get our puppies through the doing stupid shit phase. It’s the main reasons I think we should pursue Ilyasova if he’s actually available.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on June 19, 2019, 02:00:41 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on June 19, 2019, 12:40:09 PM
For only $67M we could have CP3 & Love . . .
.
.
.
.
So how much will Rubio get as a FA?

If those contracts ran 2 more years, not 3, it wouldn't be a bad play at all.

It's becoming pretty obvious we're going to go TOTAL FAIL on the big dogs.

At some point you actually have to play basketball, nobody gonna develop in more shit soup as we know, and when it comes to actual sign-on-the-dotted line time, suspect precious few really have the cojones to join the worst team in basketball despite some corny-ass fizdale grins.

Continued purposeful tank is out of the question, already cost us our shot at Zion last year and completely ungame-able. CP & Love hurt or suck, we have the regular just-like-everybody-else-lotto-ticket. They get us into the playoffs, good experience for all. Plus, it would keep us from signing some mid-tier dreck to four year deals...

Three years, however, one too many.



*** meanwhile, nice pickup for the Jazz. Always one of my faves, Conley's got significantly more remaining in the tank than his former colleague and soon-to-be ring wearer Gasol  — IF he stays healthy — a big if, but the West is now wide open and you gotta be in it to win it...
Title: CP3 and Love are not better than
Post by: Kam on June 19, 2019, 03:46:44 PM
Pat Beverly and Brook Lopez

But a hell of a lot more $$$$
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 19, 2019, 03:49:29 PM
Lets get optimistic given the current environment. Let’s say we retain D’Andre Jordan and get a spite signing of D’Angelo Russell for 38 million between them. It gives us north of 30 mil left with the following players on board

D’Jordan Robinson
Ellison
Knox Dotson
Barrett Trier Frank
D’Russell DJS Allen

A second rounder, and whatever small draft night moves. There’s perimeter scoring and young athletes to throw around to try as defenders. There’s an old young center combo that get along and get the job done. There’s multiple ball handler lineup potential. Power and swing forwards are what we need. Fortunately there are a number to pursue and enough money to land a decent combo if we play our cards right.




Title: Re: CP3 and Love are not better than
Post by: facilitatorn on June 19, 2019, 03:50:00 PM
Quote from: Kam on June 19, 2019, 03:46:44 PM
Pat Beverly and Brook Lopez

But a hell of a lot more $$$$

Brook blocks shots.
Title: Bucks
Post by: Kam on June 19, 2019, 09:12:16 PM
Poach all the Bucks:

Middleton, Brogdon, Lopez
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on June 19, 2019, 10:59:15 PM
then we'll be JUST LIKE THE BUCKS!



*** except for that one other guy they have....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 20, 2019, 02:32:48 AM
Just unleash Franc and let him play the same role as the Greek Freak!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 20, 2019, 02:43:46 AM
So if we could draft one of Hunter/Culver & one of Garland/Coby White in exchange for RJ (and Jr. Smith), would folks do it?  I  would.

More a hypo since I doubt there's any specific deal that could be worked out.   And likely that would be White since Garland expected to go as high as 4th or 5th.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 20, 2019, 02:59:45 AM
Hunter/Culver and Clarke & I’d think about it.

I don’t see White or Garland being preferable to the stable of DJS Trier Frank and Allen.

If we want a guard I’d just as soon take a flyer on Jordan Bone who might be around at 55.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 20, 2019, 06:08:24 AM
RJ has me worried.  he's very young so will take years to develop.  And Knix never patient.  Poor defense and iffy outside shooting needs to improve or he'll definitely be limited.  That vid I linked compared him to DeRozan.  A guy who can score and willed himself to be very good, but with limits. 

Weak defense makes for a bad pairing with Knox.  And Jr. Smith isn't much on defense either.  Franc needs to show some O and aggression this year.  But I'm worried we might be accumulating limited high draft picks.

Again, I'm not a draftnik.  Have seen a bare minimum of anyone in this draft.  But I sure wouldn't mind some two-way players on our roster . . .

Does anyone think thew KNix can be patient with Knox and RJ?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 20, 2019, 09:05:31 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on June 20, 2019, 02:43:46 AM
So if we could draft one of Hunter/Culver & one of Garland/Coby White in exchange for RJ (and Jr. Smith), would folks do it?  I  would.

More a hypo since I doubt there's any specific deal that could be worked out.   And likely that would be White since Garland expected to go as high as 4th or 5th.

No.  We don't add Smith to that deal.  He goes separate.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 20, 2019, 09:06:05 AM
The concerns on Barrett are silly.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 20, 2019, 09:07:24 AM
Tony Snell is a Piston.  Bucks earn cap space - no first rounder - while taking back Lauer
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 20, 2019, 09:08:36 AM
Waiting on the Capela to Celts news.  That is gonna fuck us up.  Assume they sign ROZIER.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 20, 2019, 10:15:51 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on June 20, 2019, 06:08:24 AM
RJ has me worried.  he's very young so will take years to develop.  And Knix never patient.  Poor defense and iffy outside shooting needs to improve or he'll definitely be limited.  That vid I linked compared him to DeRozan.  A guy who can score and willed himself to be very good, but with limits. 

Weak defense makes for a bad pairing with Knox.  And Jr. Smith isn't much on defense either.  Franc needs to show some O and aggression this year.  But I'm worried we might be accumulating limited high draft picks.

Again, I'm not a draftnik.  Have seen a bare minimum of anyone in this draft.  But I sure wouldn't mind some two-way players on our roster . . .

Does anyone think thew KNix can be patient with Knox and RJ?

Please dont lump them together.

But yes.  Patient - as they get on the job training alongside 4-5 other pups and a couple of brave veteran signees.

40 wins,
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 20, 2019, 10:26:29 AM
Re:  "would like to see some 2 way players"

I liked Winslow

But we have to fill the bucket efficiently- whicjh is why I consider the draft Garland, trade DSJ route.

Can we get a top 20 for Dennis?  Gets us a better point, cap room and we can select a defender (2-way) WITH that acquired pick

Garland-Knox-Mitch-Trier-Dot-20th or higher pick (Brandon Clarke may be in that range - as will Matisse Thybulle - best defender in this draft} - second rounder (Tacko Fall?)

2 signees.

Lance.  Frank (if not dealt for another second rounder).  Ellenson (yeah, I'd pick up that option).

Add.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 20, 2019, 10:46:55 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 20, 2019, 02:59:45 AM
Hunter/Culver and Clarke & I’d think about it.

I don’t see White or Garland being preferable to the stable of DJS Trier Frank and Allen.

If we want a guard I’d just as soon take a flyer on Jordan Bone who might be around at 55.

or Dawkins
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 20, 2019, 10:48:34 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on June 20, 2019, 02:32:48 AM
Just unleash Franc and let him play the same role as the Greek Freak!

Dont know about this - but I would like LANCE THOMAS to play a bit more like Mario Hezonja (read:  look for offense)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 20, 2019, 12:58:52 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on June 19, 2019, 12:38:23 PM
I think Biz touted Huerter.

Saw him live and fell in love with his heady game. Would trade Knox for him in a heartbreat.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 20, 2019, 01:01:12 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on June 20, 2019, 06:08:24 AM
RJ has me worried.  he's very young so will take years to develop.  And Knix never patient.

I mean, RJ is going to be first-team all-rookie next year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 20, 2019, 02:30:10 PM
It'll help being on a cruddy team and getting the most shots as a rook (if he can handle such).
Title: Mindset
Post by: Kam on June 20, 2019, 02:37:05 PM
RJ appears ready for New York.

Mitch is a good player and fan favorite.  He has the easiest road.

Trier is fearless and doesn't seem to let anything negative hurt his game.  In fact it may help.

Kevin Knox had a promising start that allayed the doubters til the end of the year.  But his honeymoon is almost over.  I'm not sure if he can handle boos.

Frank seems entirely too fragile.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 20, 2019, 04:07:53 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on June 20, 2019, 12:58:52 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on June 19, 2019, 12:38:23 PM
I think Biz touted Huerter.

Saw him live and fell in love with his heady game. Would trade Knox for him in a heartbreat.

Kid from Belmont is a similar player.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 20, 2019, 04:14:33 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on June 20, 2019, 02:30:10 PM
It'll help being on a cruddy team and getting the most shots as a rook (if he can handle such).

Not if his PG is Smith
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 20, 2019, 06:15:53 PM
Hawks get the #4.

Pelicans know they have their PG in Ball - and their key scoring forward in Zion

Hawks will take Hunter.

Bulls may benefit - looking for a point.

Will Cavs really pair Sexton and Garland?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 20, 2019, 08:40:31 PM
Wiz take the wrong Zag. Oh well.
Title: Minny - PHX trade
Post by: Kam on June 20, 2019, 10:03:50 PM
Minny trades Saric and the 11 for the #6?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 20, 2019, 10:55:59 PM
Great pick by WIZ
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 20, 2019, 10:57:29 PM
Some good GMing going on tonight

Could be the Knicks - by waving off deals - are a part of this.  We shall see.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 20, 2019, 11:22:59 PM
Ainge did not so well with pick 1
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on June 21, 2019, 12:18:04 AM
Has to be better than Franky? Knix are loading up on athletic types with poor outside shooting skills. So mid- twentieth century.
Title: Knicks swap picks with Kings
Post by: Kam on June 21, 2019, 12:54:47 AM
Knicks traded 55 and cash to the Kings for 47
Took another 6'7 one and done Canadian.   
This one by way of Michigan.   
40% 3pt shooter and slasher with nose for the ball.

Ignas Brazdeikis (https://www.postingandtoasting.com/2019/6/21/18700252/the-knicks-traded-up-to-select-ignas-brazdeikis-at-no-47)
Title: 2 new guys is a start but
Post by: Kam on June 21, 2019, 01:01:06 AM
I think we still offer KD the max.   FO wont be able to resist.  Sunk costs and all.
Title: Re: Knicks swap picks with Kings
Post by: facilitatorn on June 21, 2019, 01:42:58 AM
Quote from: Kam on June 21, 2019, 12:54:47 AM
Knicks traded 55 and cash to the Kings for 47
Took another 6'7 one and done Canadian.   
This one by way of Michigan.   
40% 3pt shooter and slasher with nose for the ball.

Ignas Brazdeikis (https://www.postingandtoasting.com/2019/6/21/18700252/the-knicks-traded-up-to-select-ignas-brazdeikis-at-no-47)

His game looks to be somewhere between Joe Ingles and Jared Dudley.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 21, 2019, 01:58:58 AM
So the Knix put the 2nd round on Iggy, huh?

Hate to see teams ditching useful players and a 2nd rounder just to save money.  But accounting is a big part of the NBA.

ATL interesting getting Hunter and Reddish.

Nassir Little slid.  looks like a good fit in Po'land.

I was wondering if anyone would give Porter Jr a guaranteed contract (ie 1st round pick).   Most teams would have been more comfortable taking him in the 2nd round.  CLE desperate to get talent moved up to tab him at #30. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 21, 2019, 03:40:44 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 20, 2019, 04:07:53 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on June 20, 2019, 12:58:52 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on June 19, 2019, 12:38:23 PM
I think Biz touted Huerter.

Saw him live and fell in love with his heady game. Would trade Knox for him in a heartbreat.

Kid from Belmont is a similar player.

Wilder can shoot but Huerter's floor game is something else. Just a better all around player.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 21, 2019, 03:41:15 AM
Agree, Bo. Both the Baynes and Warren salary dumps are strange. Those are good players.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 21, 2019, 04:17:48 AM
Free agency is about to get silly.

I have a weird feeling the Celtics might go after Boogie.

We have

Mitch
Ellison Ignas
Knox Dotson
Barrett Trier Frank
DJS Allen

We need help in the frontcourt. I’d like us to retain as many of Jordan, Vonleh, and Kornet as possible along with a frontline vet PF. Randle, Morris, Thad, Taj, and Rudy are guys that quickly come to mind.

Ignas might be the perfect fill in for Mario.

I’m on the fence about bringing in an oldhead guard, though we’ll probably still have some money to throw around.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 21, 2019, 12:22:38 PM
Amir Hinton is pretty interesting for an undrafted player. Has some Allonzo potential in terms of being able to make the team.

Iggy seems to have a great chance to make the team, although at some point we're talking about too many young players.

Have you guys heard about the sign-wait-and-trade for KD? Obviously not ideal for the Knicks, and involves a lot of collusion. But better than not getting him.

As for RJ - if his performance on draft day is any indication, his poise and maturity at such a young age is awfully auspicious.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on June 21, 2019, 12:36:21 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on June 21, 2019, 12:22:38 PM

Have you guys heard about the sign-wait-and-trade for KD? Obviously not ideal for the Knicks, and involves a lot of collusion. But better than not getting him.


So how does that work? He gets $57 million extra buckaroos while spending a pleasant year easymoneysniping little instagram followers.

The Warriors get a couple of our PorzingaPicks?

No thanks — let him rehab his eggshell-ego'd broken-down A#$ on somebody else's dime...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 21, 2019, 12:42:20 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on June 21, 2019, 12:36:21 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on June 21, 2019, 12:22:38 PM

Have you guys heard about the sign-wait-and-trade for KD? Obviously not ideal for the Knicks, and involves a lot of collusion. But better than not getting him.


So how does that work? He gets $57 million extra buckaroos while spending a pleasant year easysniping little instagram followers.

The Warriors get a couple of our PorzingaPicks?

No thanks — let him rehab his eggshell-ego'd broken-down A#$ on somebody else's dime...

I think it would be more like we sign players the Warriors need/want (let's say Jeremy Lamb and Trevor Ariza), and then we throw in one other asset we can live without (a future pick, or Ntilikina or Mudiay), and send that over to the Warriors. They get players they couldn't otherwise, KD gets his five years.

Knicks? They get KD. Obviously better to sign him outright.

If you're anti KD, as you appear to be, then this doesn't make sense. But for the rest of us, it's a legit Plan B, given the circumstances.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 21, 2019, 12:48:01 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on June 21, 2019, 12:22:38 PM
Amir Hinton is pretty interesting for an undrafted player. Has some Allonzo potential in terms of being able to make the team.

Iggy seems to have a great chance to make the team, although at some point we're talking about too many young players.

Have you guys heard about the sign-wait-and-trade for KD? Obviously not ideal for the Knicks, and involves a lot of collusion. But better than not getting him.

As for RJ - if his performance on draft day is any indication, his poise and maturity at such a young age is awfully auspicious.

Kris Wilkes too! He, like Brazdeikas, was a late first on some mocks.

Knicks can't keep all these guys, but at least they get a lot of kicks at the can.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 21, 2019, 01:02:26 PM
Anxiously awaiting what name BoD chooses for Rowan Barrett Jr.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 21, 2019, 01:03:51 PM
Just catching up

We got IGNAS?

Interesting player.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: NeedsAdjustments on June 21, 2019, 01:13:00 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on June 21, 2019, 12:22:38 PM
Have you guys heard about the sign-wait-and-trade for KD? Obviously not ideal for the Knicks, and involves a lot of collusion. But better than not getting him.

A maxed out KD with a built-in rehab year only to get him at 32 and for an extra year on the down slope of his career?

No.  That isn't at all better than not getting him.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 21, 2019, 01:31:50 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on June 21, 2019, 01:02:26 PM
Anxiously awaiting what name BoD chooses for Rowan Barrett Jr.

Rowan & Martin's Laugh-In

Row the Boat

R&B Jr.

Crowbar

Does anyone actually use his given name Rowan?  Does he?

I'm leaning towards RJ JR.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 21, 2019, 01:34:45 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on June 21, 2019, 12:42:20 PM

I think it would be more like we sign players the Warriors need/want (let's say Jeremy Lamb and Trevor Ariza), and then we throw in one other asset we can live without (a future pick, or Ntilikina or Mudiay), and send that over to the Warriors. They get players they couldn't otherwise, KD gets his five years.

Knicks? They get KD. Obviously better to sign him outright.

Maybe if we could turn around and trade him somewhere for players. 

I wouldn't want to help GS, have KD signed on a 5 year mega-contract, or really even have a super-expensive KD rehabbing a year on a 4 or 5 year deal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: NeedsAdjustments on June 21, 2019, 01:52:35 PM
Trading a young all-star on his rookie contract to use the space for an injured maxed out guy with a short shelf-life would be everything the Knicks have done wrong in microcosm for the last 20 years.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on June 21, 2019, 02:15:40 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on June 21, 2019, 01:31:50 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on June 21, 2019, 01:02:26 PM
Anxiously awaiting what name BoD chooses for Rowan Barrett Jr.

Rowan & Martin's Laugh-In

Row the Boat

R&B Jr.

Crowbar

Does anyone actually use his given name Rowan?  Does he?

I'm leaning towards RJ JR.
I'm going to cast a vote for "Barrett of the Knicks"
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 21, 2019, 02:18:27 PM
Are Kam and I the only ones sane enough to throw everything at KD?

Fac - you with us?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 21, 2019, 02:39:12 PM
KD as a free signing, bringing us up to the salary floor while he rehabs is fine if that’s what KD wants. I’m not sending GS shit at this juncture, thanks all the same.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 21, 2019, 03:55:03 PM
(https://s.hdnux.com/photos/62/66/21/13329505/3/920x920.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/APEDSat.jpg)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8SX8f1__RY
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on June 21, 2019, 09:50:46 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on June 21, 2019, 01:31:50 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on June 21, 2019, 01:02:26 PM
Anxiously awaiting what name BoD chooses for Rowan Barrett Jr.

Rowan & Martin's Laugh-In

Row the Boat

R&B Jr.

Crowbar

Does anyone actually use his given name Rowan?  Does he?

I'm leaning towards RJ JR.

R&B is pretty fabulous (happy to skip the junior shit).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 22, 2019, 02:31:31 AM
Tacko to the Celtics on an exhibit 10 contract.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 22, 2019, 03:11:57 AM
Quote from: elephant on June 21, 2019, 09:50:46 PM
R&B is pretty fabulous (happy to skip the junior shit).

If he's good.

But if he looks young and mistake prone the Jr. captures that.

But R&B is kind of a cool knickname, and it's one of my dated references* that still has relevance today ...


* I'm thinking Wynonie Harris doing Good Morning Judge or Louis Jordan laying down Jack You're Dead post-WWII.

otherwise I grew up learning that R&B stood for Ruth Brown . . .  well, that was her catchphrase when she had a radio show on NPR in the 80's
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 22, 2019, 03:29:33 AM
Quote
Nando De Colo -- one of the EuroLeague's top guards -- is planning a return to the NBA and could command an ample free-agent market.

Probably the most exciting thing since Sergio Rodríguez made his NBA comeback . . .

Subplot, TOR has his NBA rights, RFA, if they want.

You'd think it'd be pretty clear by now that playing PG well in Eurohoopsland doesn't translate to being good in the NBA . . .  especially when a guy is in his 30's (NdeC is 32) and washed out in his 20's.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 22, 2019, 11:02:55 AM
I'd be more excited about the draft and the upcoming season if we had RJ Barrett, Knox and KZ in the fold.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 22, 2019, 12:37:30 PM
At some point maybe accept he didn't want to be here?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 22, 2019, 12:39:40 PM
Both Windhorst and Kendrick Perkins believe the Nets are the frontrunner for Kevin Durant.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 22, 2019, 02:19:23 PM
Quote from: elephant on June 21, 2019, 09:50:46 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on June 21, 2019, 01:31:50 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on June 21, 2019, 01:02:26 PM
Anxiously awaiting what name BoD chooses for Rowan Barrett Jr.

Rowan & Martin's Laugh-In

Row the Boat

R&B Jr.

Crowbar

Does anyone actually use his given name Rowan?  Does he?

I'm leaning towards RJ JR.

R&B is pretty fabulous (happy to skip the junior shit).

R Buckets.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 22, 2019, 02:22:02 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on June 22, 2019, 03:29:33 AM
Quote
Nando De Colo -- one of the EuroLeague's top guards -- is planning a return to the NBA and could command an ample free-agent market.

Probably the most exciting thing since Sergio Rodríguez made his NBA comeback . . .

Subplot, TOR has his NBA rights, RFA, if they want.

You'd think it'd be pretty clear by now that playing PG well in Eurohoopsland doesn't translate to being good in the NBA . . .  especially when a guy is in his 30's (NdeC is 32) and washed out in his 20's.

heh

To be continued

Sergio reference noted. but Telodosic's comments on "waiting too long" might be more suitable to this sitch.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 22, 2019, 02:26:48 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on June 22, 2019, 03:11:57 AM


If he's good.


Really?

Quote

But if he looks young and mistake prone the Jr. captures that.


OY.

Quote

But R&B is kind of a cool knickname...

...... I grew up learning that R&B stood for Ruth Brown . . .  well, that was her catchphrase when she had a radio show on NPR in the 80's

Uh.... OK


Anyway, welcome mat out for Barrett - above comments aside.  Kid seems to have the city at his feet right now.  Should be a great ride.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 22, 2019, 02:30:11 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on June 22, 2019, 11:02:55 AM
I'd be more excited about the draft and the upcoming season if we had RJ Barrett, Knox and KZ in the fold.

Stop fuckin' crying and realize what the space and picks can bring us.

KP is damaged -

how much is debatable.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 22, 2019, 03:56:57 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on June 21, 2019, 12:36:21 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on June 21, 2019, 12:22:38 PM

Have you guys heard about the sign-wait-and-trade for KD? Obviously not ideal for the Knicks, and involves a lot of collusion. But better than not getting him.


So how does that work? He gets $57 million extra buckaroos while spending a pleasant year easymoneysniping little instagram followers.

The Warriors get a couple of our PorzingaPicks?

No thanks — let him rehab his eggshell-ego'd broken-down A#$ on somebody else's dime...

Warriors get some of our TEAM SALARY, clearing more space, no?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 22, 2019, 03:58:48 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 22, 2019, 02:22:02 PM
Sergio reference noted. but Telodosic's comments on "waiting too long" might be more suitable to this sitch.

And what was Spanoulis' excuse?  He came over too soon?
He was 25 and thought JVG was too tough on him.  Sulked, then went back Eurowards after one season.  Spanoulis was much hyped.

Basically, Pony Tarker and Jose Candelabra are the only 2 Euro-PG's to have success in the NBofA.  I guess Schroder is next, and he's been mostly a backup.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 22, 2019, 04:01:14 PM
Sergio?

Who cares what his excuse was.

Has nothing to do with Nando.

You just lump guys together wily-nily - like when youc all whites "unathletic"
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 22, 2019, 04:26:06 PM
Nando can light up Jimmer in summer league (rumored to Warriors). That might fool a GM with more roster spots than he knows what to do with.

Should we expect to see the following guys playing in Vegas?

Mitch
Ellison
Knox
Iggy
Wilkes
King
Frank
Barrett
Garrett
Hinton
Trier

My thought is you bring and play more young vets than you would normally to get Barrett reps with regulars.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 22, 2019, 04:34:45 PM
8. Celtics fail to swing a big deal


Coming into Thursday night, the Celtics were expected to make some noise with their three first-round picks. But reality wound up being much different.

Boston did make a pair of deals, though both were of the minor variety, moving back four spots in the draft in one trade and securing a future first-rounder in another. As a result, the Nos. 14, 20 and 22 picks in Thursday's draft eventually turned into Indiana swingman Romeo Langford, Tennessee big man Grant Williams, Purdue point guard Carsen Edwards, LSU guard Tremont Waters and the Bucks' 2020 protected first round pick

Those three additions, plus the likely departures of Kyrie Irving and Al Horford, leave the Celtics with a team featuring 10 players who are 25 or under at the moment -- along with close to $25.8 million in room, per ESPN's Bobby Marks, to try to add another impact player to the roster

This time a year ago, Boston was expected to enter this night with a high lottery pick (courtesy of the Sacramento Kings) and the possibility of adding Anthony Davis via trade. Instead, the Celtics wound up with a few middling selections and potential cap space.

When Boston was coming off its Eastern Conference finals appearance a year ago, things were supposed to be far, far different than this.

 

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27015402/how-nba-draft-sets-league-altering-free-agency
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 22, 2019, 04:35:25 PM
NBA PG is a difficult position to play.
Especially these days when a player is expected to both score a lot and run a team.  And you have to defend a lot of quick PG's, not to mention getting screened on to bigger player.
Eurohoops is different, with more passing and playmaking parity.
The speed and length of the NBA players is also different.
It's hard enough for US players to learn and adapt to the demands of US PG duties.  Euro guys and intl's -- like Exum and Mud -- have little chance at being starting PG's.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 22, 2019, 04:38:47 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on June 22, 2019, 03:58:48 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 22, 2019, 02:22:02 PM
Sergio reference noted. but Telodosic's comments on "waiting too long" might be more suitable to this sitch.

And what was Spanoulis' excuse?  He came over too soon?
He was 25 and thought JVG was too tough on him.  Sulked, then went back Eurowards after

Basically, (Tony Parker) and (Jose Calderon) are the only 2 Euro-PG's to have success in the NBofA.  I guess Schroder is next, and he's been mostly a backup.

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 22, 2019, 04:50:55 PM
Spurs should have taken Lester Hudson that year.  Clearly Celtics didnt know what to do with him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 22, 2019, 05:02:35 PM
Who are the most likely RFAs to be renounced around the league?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on June 22, 2019, 05:25:12 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 22, 2019, 03:56:57 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on June 21, 2019, 12:36:21 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on June 21, 2019, 12:22:38 PM

Have you guys heard about the sign-wait-and-trade for KD? Obviously not ideal for the Knicks, and involves a lot of collusion. But better than not getting him.


So how does that work? He gets $57 million extra buckaroos while spending a pleasant year easymoneysniping little instagram followers.

The Warriors get a couple of our PorzingaPicks?

No thanks — let him rehab his eggshell-ego'd broken-down A#$ on somebody else's dime...

Warriors get some of our TEAM SALARY, clearing more space, no?

Well, if they take players as well as picks, but they wouldn't have to right? Since NY will have space under the cap to accept without sending anybody out?

***I don't do or pretend to understand CAP & Trade anymore, just too complicated for the wee brain
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 22, 2019, 05:36:50 PM
GS could do it for the trade exception and go for the next disgruntled star once Klay is healthy. If there’s a bidding war, they’d reap other assets as well. A lot of teams can absorb a supermax this summer.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 22, 2019, 05:49:50 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on June 22, 2019, 05:25:12 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 22, 2019, 03:56:57 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on June 21, 2019, 12:36:21 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on June 21, 2019, 12:22:38 PM

Have you guys heard about the sign-wait-and-trade for KD? Obviously not ideal for the Knicks, and involves a lot of collusion. But better than not getting him.


So how does that work? He gets $57 million extra buckaroos while spending a pleasant year easymoneysniping little instagram followers.

The Warriors get a couple of our PorzingaPicks?

No thanks — let him rehab his eggshell-ego'd broken-down A#$ on somebody else's dime...

Warriors get some of our TEAM SALARY, clearing more space, no?

Well, if they take players as well as picks, but they wouldn't have to right? Since NY will have space under the cap to accept without sending anybody out?

***I don't do or pretend to understand CAP & Trade anymore, just too complicated for the wee brain

Right.

But if Ntlikina has the value you think he does, why wouldn't they take him?

Lance Thomas at 7 mil?  No.

Knicks cant get Frank's 4+ mil to use just by releasing him.  This way they can.  And they get Kev for an extra year, right?  But most importantly - if this is what they want - the GET THEIR GUY without the hemming and hawing and other teams involved, etc.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 23, 2019, 01:05:02 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 22, 2019, 03:56:57 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on June 21, 2019, 12:36:21 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on June 21, 2019, 12:22:38 PM

Have you guys heard about the sign-wait-and-trade for KD? Obviously not ideal for the Knicks, and involves a lot of collusion. But better than not getting him.


So how does that work? He gets $57 million extra buckaroos while spending a pleasant year easymoneysniping little instagram followers.

The Warriors get a couple of our PorzingaPicks?

No thanks — let him rehab his eggshell-ego'd broken-down A#$ on somebody else's dime...

Warriors get some of our TEAM SALARY, clearing more space, no?

What does "team salary" mean? That is not a CBA term, so I'm not sure what you are getting at.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 23, 2019, 07:32:44 PM
I think I explained it above

Players = team salary.  Not much but Frank and Trier is what - 8 mil combined?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 23, 2019, 08:32:38 PM
KD & KI to Brooklyn is fine. Let’s see if Irving can avoid burning bridges long enough for Durant to get healthy.
Title: Nyets
Post by: carlos123 on June 23, 2019, 11:45:12 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 23, 2019, 08:32:38 PM
KD & KI to Brooklyn is fine. Let’s see if Irving can avoid burning bridges long enough for Durant to get healthy.

Nothing but paper tigers.

Let’em have’em. They’ll regret it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 24, 2019, 01:18:36 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 23, 2019, 07:32:44 PM
I think I explained it above

Players = team salary.  Not much but Frank and Trier is what - 8 mil combined?

If we're under the cap, we don't have to send equal salary back to the Warriors. If we're $30 million under the cap, we could, to use your example, send Frank and Trier and maybe a distant pick.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 24, 2019, 04:56:15 AM
So KZ is damaged goods, but we should trade for Durant who is a decade older, has a worse injury and hasn't started his rehab yet.

Not to mention that we don't even have a team that could benefit from KD if he returned to form in 2 years.  As for this wacky 5 year fantasy, Knix would just be punishing themselves by paying a 35 or (is it 36 year old?) Durant $45M or whatever.  Didn't anyone learn anything from the Melo re-sign?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 24, 2019, 04:59:11 AM
If I take Kid correctly here, say we have 71 mil space with 38 mil on the books. If we then take Durant starting at 38 mil, which GS can offer in the sign and trade scenario, we’d be down to a paltry 33 mil in space left. Because the scenario is a trade, if we send 9 mil back in the form of Frank and DJS, the number would be 42 mil, 40 if we ship out Trier instead of one of the lotto boys. That’s enough for another max and a rotation piece. Probably we’d look then to spend big on a point guard and put the change into a big.

I’m not advocating for this move. I’m just trying to spell it out. To me it seems plausible but not wise.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 24, 2019, 08:35:08 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on June 24, 2019, 04:56:15 AM
So KZ is damaged goods, but we should trade for Durant who is a decade older, has a worse injury and hasn't started his rehab yet.

Not to mention that we don't even have a team that could benefit from KD if he returned to form in 2 years.  As for this wacky 5 year fantasy, Knix would just be punishing themselves by paying a 35 or (is it 36 year old?) Durant $45M or whatever.  Didn't anyone learn anything from the Melo re-sign?

You are really comparing Porzingis to Durant?

Melo to Durant?

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 24, 2019, 08:40:27 AM
OK, I'll play -

what were we eventually going to have to pay KP?

did we foresee KP's brother suddenly becoming a non-nuisance?

where were we getting young cheap talent that would allow us to pay top guys to play with KP?

Give me an example of a team - an eight player rotation - down the line if we had kept him - and tell me why you feel that would have been good enough.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 24, 2019, 08:41:07 AM
Why would an aging rehabbing Durantula want to come to NYK anyway?

We don't have pieces in place, have a poor track record of executing plans, lots of turnover in terms of players and management, a two decades-long losing history, terrible owner, and a recent history of alienating high-profile players (Melo, KZ, Noah).

BKY makes a lot more sense, as they have a competitive young team already in place.  And they can add Kyrie, apparently a KD buddy.  Or he can stick with GS a perennial contender.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 24, 2019, 09:01:06 AM
Brooklyn doesnt have all that much in place.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 24, 2019, 09:19:55 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 24, 2019, 08:40:27 AM
OK, I'll play -

what were we eventually going to have to pay KP?

A lot.  The junior max.

did we foresee KP's brother suddenly becoming a non-nuisance?

How did the relationship go wrong?  We couldn't give KZ's bro some title -- Player Development Specialist or whatever -- and buy him off.  And then KZ would hire a real agent. 

KZ was our ticket, all we had to do is keep him happy.  It was His Team.  The injury year allowed us to tank and add a Top 3 pick.  A This should have been fine.  How did the Knix blow the deal with KZ?  Why was he so disaffected?  How come no one has been held accountable or fired for this fiasco?

where were we getting young cheap talent that would allow us to pay top guys to play with KP?

RJ Barrett our #3 pick.  Knox, Mitch, Franc, Trier, Dotson, (Mud).
Gee that's nearly half a roster of young cheap talent.
Let's say that with KZ - Mitch - Barrett you have 3 starting positions locked up long term.  So bring in some vets.  Big need at PG.  Also SF.

Give me an example of a team - an eight player rotation - down the line if we had kept him - and tell me why you feel that would have been good enough.

Bring in a vet PG.  Maybe throw a ton of cash at RFA Brogdon (say $18M).  Pa Bev gives a jolt for cheap.  Rubio can be had for not a huge amount ($15M?).  With KZ, Kyrie likely considers NYC -- though I'm not a fan, as he would be expensive and injury-prone and flaky.  Another option is wait for a PG, but my feeling is  having a genuine starting quality PG will jump start the rebuild and speed up development of players/coach/team.

We'd need a 3&D vet SF.  One idea I've floated is tossing a big one year deal at an aging vet.  An Ariza, Rude Gay, DeMarre, Wil.
We'd get a solid SF presence, buy time to develop Knox, and preserve cap space for next year.  Maybe Ariza and Gay can find better teams willing to pay them fairly well.  Then DeMarre (though a big enough payday in NYC, and Ariza/Gay could agree).

Two possible next year scenarios:
A                                            B
Rubio -  Mud/Franc                  Brogdon - Mud/Franc
Barrett - Trier/Dotson              Barrett - Trier/Dotson
DeMarre - Knox                       Ariza - Knox
KZ -   Vonleh                           KZ - Vonleh
Mitch - Kornet                          Mitch - Kornet

I'd prefer B, but that would be harder to achieve.

We'd still have a fair amount of cap space the following year (though KZ will be at $25M or whatever).
Can evaluate and see what else we need and who works together.
Note I'm preaching a rather patient approach. 
Developing a team around KZ,  Barrett and Mitch.  Pups.  And hopefully Knox.  Which will take some years.  The hell with shortcuts.

Make smart moves.  Add another late lottery or mid-1st draft pick the next year.  Manage the cap well and be opportunistic.  Good players always become available.  For example, last year Porter Jr could be had for just his high salary.  Kyrie and Horford are out there in FA, etc.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 24, 2019, 09:22:24 AM
Nets summer league news:

https://nothinbutnets.com/2019/06/22/brooklyn-nets-summer-league-schedule-set-team-coming-together/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on June 24, 2019, 11:15:41 AM
What Bo Said....


*** at least 89 percent of it....

***** Ok if he never bounces back, or turns out to actually be a rapist or incorrigible Latvian brawler, or one of those picks gets lotto-lucky and turns in to the next Zion, things will look different in hindsight, but until then, a full 89 percent of what Bo said.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 24, 2019, 12:04:53 PM
Les woulda been with me in the 90's if my original post weren't so garbled.  I've edited it so it reads better.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 24, 2019, 02:05:27 PM
Quote
How did the relationship go wrong?   

KZ was our ticket, all we had to do is keep him happy.  It was His Team.  The injury year allowed us to tank and add a Top 3 pick.  A This should have been fine.  How did the Knix blow the deal with KZ?  Why was he so disaffected?  How come no one has been held accountable or fired for this fiasco?


When relationships go wrong there is blame on both sides.  You lay out where the Knicks done wrong.  But you give Zaps a pass.  I think Zaps pussied out.  Saw what the org has some to past greats (Ewing, Oakley, even Melo) and decided he didn't want the responsibility because failure meant ignominy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 24, 2019, 02:19:01 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on June 21, 2019, 02:18:27 PM
Are Kam and I the only ones sane enough to throw everything at KD?

Fac - you with us?

OK .... let me clarify my position.

Do i think the Knicks will make a Max offer to KD? 

Yes.  Their shaky legs have come too far to not ring the doorbell on prom night. 
So what if the girl behind the door just got fitted for metal braces?   Have you SEEN her tits?

Do i think they should?

Yes.  Because I think the hottie with the braces will still be popular with her friends in a couple summers.


Am i considering my options? / OK with the messed up hottie turning me down?

Hell yes.   I hate braces.   I'll put up with them if i must.   But i'm not blind.   I go into this with a less than great feeling.  It's easier to feel better about dancing with some geeky girls for a couple years like Bo wants to and hope they stay loyal when they mature.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on June 24, 2019, 04:30:56 PM
Same old, same old.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/new-york-knicks-fined-50000-for-violating-nbas-media-policy-when-they-banned-newspaper-from-press-conference/ (https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/new-york-knicks-fined-50000-for-violating-nbas-media-policy-when-they-banned-newspaper-from-press-conference/)

The question about why we couldn't manage KP better remains relevant to issues/decisions coming up. How competent is the organization? Are things really changing?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 24, 2019, 05:38:16 PM
Would big name FA's want to trust their careers to NYK?

And I really have no idea what went wrong between KZ and the Knix.
Assume we'll here more.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 24, 2019, 05:58:16 PM
The dude needed to get out of the jurisdiction. I’m sure he’ll be safe in Texas.

If we get outbid on D’Andre, how much do you think it would cost to sign Dedmon? I’d feel good getting him at 15 mil per. As a floor spacer he could play with Mitch or give us a 5 out look at the five more effectively than Kornet. He fits our timeline better than Brook Lopez who I wouldn’t say no to either. Muscala might be a cheaper less effective option in that mold.

Dedmon, JMychal Green, and Rubio then bring back Vonleh and Kornet.

Dedmon Mitch Kornet
Vonleh Green
Knox Frank Ignas
Barrett Dotson Trier
Rubio DJS Allen

As a team hoping to jump to where the Nyets or Magic were while having some space left and two first rounders in 2 of the next three drafts.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 24, 2019, 06:15:02 PM
$15M sounds way high for Dedmon Walking.
Sounds like a Mahinmi signing to me.

There's a C glut and the market rate for C's has dipped significantly.

I'd rather go for someone much cheaper such as Zubac, Birch, Len.
Or look into Cauley-Stein's price.

Or just roll with Mitch and Chop Suey.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: NeedsAdjustments on June 24, 2019, 06:53:25 PM
Quote from: Kam on June 24, 2019, 02:19:01 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on June 21, 2019, 02:18:27 PM
Are Kam and I the only ones sane enough to throw everything at KD?

Fac - you with us?

OK .... let me clarify my position.

Do i think the Knicks will make a Max offer to KD? 

Yes.  Their shaky legs have come too far to not ring the doorbell on prom night. 
So what if the girl behind the door just got fitted for metal braces?   Have you SEEN her tits?

Do i think they should?

Yes.  Because I think the hottie with the braces will still be popular with her friends in a couple summers.

In a couple summers that hottie will be pregnant and not putting out while you are stuck with $30 million per year in child support payments wishing you had just gone to college, where the girls are "geeky" but fun and chill and without a tenth of the baggage you have now stuck yourself with. 

Or at the least, wishing you had just stayed with that tall blond girl who took her Dallas boyfriend on a three week summer vacation in Santorini and whose bikini-clad beach selfies you can only now drool over on Facebook.  Really should unfriend her, dude.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: NeedsAdjustments on June 24, 2019, 06:57:16 PM
Quote from: Kam on June 24, 2019, 02:05:27 PM
Quote
How did the relationship go wrong?   

KZ was our ticket, all we had to do is keep him happy.  It was His Team.  The injury year allowed us to tank and add a Top 3 pick.  A This should have been fine.  How did the Knix blow the deal with KZ?  Why was he so disaffected?  How come no one has been held accountable or fired for this fiasco?


When relationships go wrong there is blame on both sides.  You lay out where the Knicks done wrong.  But you give Zaps a pass.  I think Zaps pussied out.  Saw what the org has some to past greats (Ewing, Oakley, even Melo) and decided he didn't want the responsibility because failure meant ignominy.

I said when this trade happened that I don’t know another team in the league that has ever traded a franchise all-star on his rookie contract for cap space.  To my knowledge, never happened.  And I can only imagine with the dozens and dozens of times when that has not happened that there have been plenty of asshole brothers and fathers and whomever and disgruntlement to go around that at least half-way competent franchises figured out how to deal with rather than rushing to a bad basketball decision.

The Knicks, alas, are not a half-way competent franchise.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 24, 2019, 07:01:55 PM
Quote from: NeedsAdjustments on June 24, 2019, 06:57:16 PM
Quote from: Kam on June 24, 2019, 02:05:27 PM
Quote
How did the relationship go wrong?   

KZ was our ticket, all we had to do is keep him happy.  It was His Team.  The injury year allowed us to tank and add a Top 3 pick.  A This should have been fine.  How did the Knix blow the deal with KZ?  Why was he so disaffected?  How come no one has been held accountable or fired for this fiasco?


When relationships go wrong there is blame on both sides.  You lay out where the Knicks done wrong.  But you give Zaps a pass.


The Knicks, alas, are not a half-way competent franchise.

Reportedly Kyrie Irving prefers Brooklyn to the Knicks in specific because of Dolan and how he runs the team.  No such issues in Brooklyn. Durant still prefers Knicks. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 24, 2019, 09:44:28 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on June 24, 2019, 06:15:02 PM
$15M sounds way high for Dedmon Walking.
Sounds like a Mahinmi signing to me.

There's a C glut and the market rate for C's has dipped significantly.

I'd rather go for someone much cheaper such as Zubac, Birch, Len.
Or look into Cauley-Stein's price.

Or just roll with Mitch and Chop Suey.

Dedmon has been consistent with boards, shooting, low turnovers, and active D the last few years. He seems like a good guy to lead development for our young bigs. With the drivers we have, bigs who stretch the floor are a higher value to us. Len isn’t a bad option, depending on his price range.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 24, 2019, 09:49:10 PM
Some of us arent in agreement that we seek a STARTING center.
Title: Re-unite with
Post by: Kam on June 24, 2019, 10:31:26 PM
Robin Lopez for the league minimum to backup Mitch
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on June 24, 2019, 11:09:46 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on June 24, 2019, 01:18:36 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 23, 2019, 07:32:44 PM
I think I explained it above

Players = team salary.  Not much but Frank and Trier is what - 8 mil combined?

If we're under the cap, we don't have to send equal salary back to the Warriors. If we're $30 million under the cap, we could, to use your example, send Frank and Trier and maybe a distant pick.


WHY?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on June 24, 2019, 11:11:46 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on June 24, 2019, 04:56:15 AM
So KZ is damaged goods, but we should trade for Durant who is a decade older, has a worse injury and hasn't started his rehab yet.

Not to mention that we don't even have a team that could benefit from KD if he returned to form in 2 years.  As for this wacky 5 year fantasy, Knix would just be punishing themselves by paying a 35 or (is it 36 year old?) Durant $45M or whatever.  Didn't anyone learn anything from the Melo re-sign?

THIS!

We can only hope these guys are serious about not repeating the same mistakes as before.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on June 24, 2019, 11:20:26 PM
Quote from: Kam on June 24, 2019, 07:01:55 PM
Quote from: NeedsAdjustments on June 24, 2019, 06:57:16 PM
Quote from: Kam on June 24, 2019, 02:05:27 PM
Quote
How did the relationship go wrong?   

KZ was our ticket, all we had to do is keep him happy.  It was His Team.  The injury year allowed us to tank and add a Top 3 pick.  A This should have been fine.  How did the Knix blow the deal with KZ?  Why was he so disaffected?  How come no one has been held accountable or fired for this fiasco?


When relationships go wrong there is blame on both sides.  You lay out where the Knicks done wrong.  But you give Zaps a pass.


The Knicks, alas, are not a half-way competent franchise.

Reportedly Kyrie Irving prefers Brooklyn to the Knicks in specific because of Dolan and how he runs the team.  No such issues in Brooklyn. Durant still prefers Knicks.

F' Kyrie.  I don't get a rat's ass what he thinks of Dolan.

Kyrie is a parasite. We are far better off without him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 25, 2019, 12:47:58 AM
I think Kyrie is almost exactly what you get if you meshed Marbury and Melo together.  Still we do really need a starting quality PG.


I'm fine with Mitch and Chop Suey manning the 5.
Wouldn't spend good money on a C, unless it's a 1 year deal, or someone cheap like Khem Birch (< $6M).  And if we want C insurance can always add a burly PF, like Rich Holmes or KO'Quinn.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 25, 2019, 01:14:18 AM
Who the hell is chop suey?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 25, 2019, 01:55:54 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 25, 2019, 01:14:18 AM
Who the hell is chop suey?

Kornet
Title: New plan
Post by: Kam on June 25, 2019, 01:58:13 AM
Sign Julius Randle El and Malcolm Brogdon.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 25, 2019, 03:21:42 AM
Definitely bring back Chop Suey then.

Randle, Brogdon, Kornet, and Vonleh would be a good haul. I think we also want to bring back Thomas on the minimum and don’t see much competition rising for his services. We should still have about 25 million left.

Mitch Kornet
Randle Vonleh Thomas
Knox Frank Ignas
Barrett Dotson Trier
Brogdon DJS Allen

We could bring back Ellison unless we scoop up another big. That’s not half bad even though we’ll likely have to overpay for the top two targets.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 25, 2019, 04:40:43 AM
How much money are you willing to commit to Randle?

I don't know what kind of team we have, or plan to have, to know if/how Randle fits.  He's a Mack truck and likes to run.  Are we going to push the pace?  If we had our PG in place, we'd know a lot more what we should/could do.  Right now I'm not sure you want Mitch/Randle because that will clog driving lanes for Barrett and make him shoot outside more.  Same for Knox.

Randle is an interesting solid player, but not one who fits every team.  I'd rather get my team together more before I add in a Randle.  Unless we can get him on a reasonable contract that could be moved later if need be.  At this stage, I don't want to be locked into Randle, but might be interested if he doesn't get big offers.  Randle on a team friendly deal, or even a 1 year inflated deal would be fine.  But I'm concerned about cap space and better fits.  Or just waiting until we know what our specific needs are.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 25, 2019, 06:57:05 AM
My top dollar for Randle is 4 years starting at 22 mil. A big raise, sure, but he’s an impactful player. It lets us add a sub MLE guy as well whit the difference between that and the 28 we could give him. It also makes him tradeable for a Jr. max signee this year or next year later in both contracts where it’s attractive because it will save the other team money. He may continue to grow as a player and mesh well with Barrett, Robinson, Knox, and the other kiddies. In that case he’d be a bargain. His fit with Chop Suey (or any of the spacing centers referenced in prior posts) is also intriguing Vonleh and Randle would provide an interesting combo of small ball and bully ball, especially combined with what is hopefully good positional rebounding from Dot and/or Barrett. If it doesn’t work well we can look to trade him for reasonable players making as little as 17 mil as soon as February. Even if he’s a very bad Randle for us he’ll still have perceived value in that capacity based on his prior impactful seasons and young age and skill set. Hopefully you are just giving him good money to handle the bulk of the roughhousing as Mitch & Kevin grow up and we develop more of our frontcourt.

22 million for Randle should leave us more than 50 million to spend or not spend elsewhere on the roster.

I think Brogdon will see a sheet near or at 20 million to start. I wouldn’t mind that offer coming from the Knicks. With Randle on at 22 hypothetically, 8 to start for Vonleh & 4 for Kornet has us near but still under the cap.

Is Randle the best way to spend money on frontcourt help?

Is Brogdon that guy as a guard?

They have production and timeline in their favor, but they may like other offers elsewhere and there may be better ways for us to go.

I don’t think this is the season to hunt stars, but instead we should find some core pros who will work well together.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 25, 2019, 09:09:02 AM
Quote from: FWK00 on June 24, 2019, 11:09:46 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on June 24, 2019, 01:18:36 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 23, 2019, 07:32:44 PM
I think I explained it above

Players = team salary.  Not much but Frank and Trier is what - 8 mil combined?

If we're under the cap, we don't have to send equal salary back to the Warriors. If we're $30 million under the cap, we could, to use your example, send Frank and Trier and maybe a distant pick.


WHY?

Why?

Because Warriors have the hammer.  And a team like the Nets could offer something of value to get KD his max.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 25, 2019, 09:10:52 AM
Quote from: FWK00 on June 24, 2019, 11:20:26 PM


Kyrie is a parasite. We are far better off without him.

Both points highly debatable.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 25, 2019, 09:16:47 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 25, 2019, 06:57:05 AM
My top dollar for Randle is 4 years starting at 22 mil. A big raise, sure, but he’s an impactful player. It lets us add a sub MLE guy as well whit the difference between that and the 28 we could give him. It also makes him tradeable for a Jr. max signee this year or next year later in both contracts where it’s attractive because it will save the other team money. He may continue to grow as a player and mesh well with Barrett, Robinson, Knox, and the other kiddies. In that case he’d be a bargain. His fit with Chop Suey (or any of the spacing centers referenced in prior posts) is also intriguing Vonleh and Randle would provide an interesting combo of small ball and bully ball, especially combined with what is hopefully good positional rebounding from Dot and/or Barrett. If it doesn’t work well we can look to trade him for reasonable players making as little as 17 mil as soon as February. Even if he’s a very bad Randle for us he’ll still have perceived value in that capacity based on his prior impactful seasons and young age and skill set. Hopefully you are just giving him good money to handle the bulk of the roughhousing as Mitch & Kevin grow up and we develop more of our frontcourt.

22 million for Randle should leave us more than 50 million to spend or not spend elsewhere on the roster.

I think Brogdon will see a sheet near or at 20 million to start. I wouldn’t mind that offer coming from the Knicks. With Randle on at 22 hypothetically, 8 to start for Vonleh & 4 for Kornet has us near but still under the cap.

Is Randle the best way to spend money on frontcourt help?

Is Brogdon that guy as a guard?

They have production and timeline in their favor, but they may like other offers elsewhere and there may be better ways for us to go.

I don’t think this is the season to hunt stars, but instead we should find some core pros who will work well together.

good post

I dont mind that direction at all

have been saying all along there are many very good players available (this includes in trade)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 25, 2019, 12:46:09 PM
I wouldn't go near that high/long for Randle.

But IF NYK signed Randle for $22M, then I wouldn't give Vonleh $8M to back him up.  That's $30M committed at the PF slot without either of them able to really fill in as a smallball C.  And PF's are not as important as they used to be.

My attention is on -- and Knick $$ should be spent on -- getting a starting PG and a 3&D SF who can guard multiple positions.   That's where I'd overpay/use cap space.  If not available this year, I'd hold off and roll over cap space.

I'd be fine going with say Vonleh and Richuan Holmes at PF for a combined $12M or whatever.  Or extracting something from POR and taking on 2/$20M of Meyers Leonard, so they can avoid luxtax.  My Leo always looks pretty good to me.  Sets screens, can pop 3's okay, boards allright, will mix it up.  A bit chumpy on D, in the Kanter mold.

I'd be looking to be creative, keep options open, use cap space wisely, and above all be patient.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 25, 2019, 01:46:00 PM
Like you said - dont spend so much money on one spot.

THUS....

adding a PG needs to come with dealing Smith.

This also due to what I explained earlier - that the only real good Smith you likely get is a STARTING Smith - if he doesnt start you lose him a little.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 25, 2019, 01:48:13 PM
Of course my initial feeling is we roll with DSJ in order for the Zingis deal to look like a HR (should Dennis prosper)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on June 25, 2019, 01:51:18 PM
W--B---S..96% (and kiid's second thereof)

If you're gonna tie up 30 Mil in a slot, that slot better be talented at a deep playoff spot worthy expectation. Otherwise, just step away from the car.


** next thing you know I'm gonna be agreeing with Bo about Knox's potential or FizWhale's abilities...


*** 10000 Percent NOT!!!!


*** Really, what is that doing?, that's spending $30 mil to REFILL the Unicorn's hole. I don't think we even pay that on his second contract, certainly not next year, and I don't think you'd find five folks in this league who would honestly bet on Randall's potential over Porzingis. Would be typical horrible franchise stuff. Some kinda vintage Ernie Grunfeld retro move.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 25, 2019, 03:10:54 PM
I'll be pretty upset if we sign Randle to a 4yr, $90m deal. That would be terrible. He puts up numbers, but you can't have him as your highest paid player and expect to go anywhere.

I think if the Knicks strike out, they're going to trade for Marvin Williams and Michael Kidd Gilchrist and Kent Bazemore and hope to acquire protected first rounders in the process.

Zach Lowe mused about D-Lo. Would mean DSJ has got to go.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 25, 2019, 04:35:06 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on June 25, 2019, 03:10:54 PM
I'll be pretty upset if we sign Randle to a 4yr, $90m deal. That would be terrible. He puts up numbers, but you can't have him as your highest paid player and expect to go anywhere.

I think if the Knicks strike out, they're going to trade for Marvin Williams and Michael Kidd Gilchrist and Kent Bazemore and hope to acquire protected first rounders in the process.

Zach Lowe mused about D-Lo. Would mean DSJ has got to go.

Upset to get a nice player.

That should never be your stance.

You should be thankful a 20-8 guy wants to play here
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 25, 2019, 04:36:36 PM
Russell getting some love from...of all places -

the LAKERS
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 25, 2019, 04:39:00 PM
Randle is a younger, somewhat more dynamic (prime) David Lee.

No idea if he is/isnt a good teammate
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on June 25, 2019, 05:36:24 PM
I am not slamming a kid who seems to be a nice, young player. Just thinking very hard about how we spend that $$. Question: Does he have David Lee's piano hands? I didn't see anybody sniffing floor time in this year's finals who did.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 25, 2019, 09:26:40 PM
Randle will likely score about the same as KP, rebound and dime better, hit fewer 3’s at a higher rate, block a lot fewer shots, and play more minutes and games over this next contract which they’ll both start at the same time. If you are paying Randle a chunk less you have the better deal. If you moved KP for Randle, DJS, and two firsts you won that deal, especially if you are getting shot blocking somewhere else on the roster.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on June 25, 2019, 10:15:29 PM
I could give fuck-all about better deals.

We aint shoe shopping

Does Randle make a differnce on amy team?. If not,  why are you junking up the cap with all that f'ing money.. You lost, not won.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 25, 2019, 10:51:25 PM
Who makes a difference and what kind of offers do you expect they will receive?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 25, 2019, 11:15:43 PM
mitch got a rookie vote......
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 26, 2019, 12:17:56 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 25, 2019, 04:35:06 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on June 25, 2019, 03:10:54 PM
I'll be pretty upset if we sign Randle to a 4yr, $90m deal. That would be terrible. He puts up numbers, but you can't have him as your highest paid player and expect to go anywhere.

I think if the Knicks strike out, they're going to trade for Marvin Williams and Michael Kidd Gilchrist and Kent Bazemore and hope to acquire protected first rounders in the process.

Zach Lowe mused about D-Lo. Would mean DSJ has got to go.

Upset to get a nice player.

That should never be your stance.

You should be thankful a 20-8 guy wants to play here

That's not how you build a good team. That's how you sign Nic Batum, Evan Turner, Michael Kidd Gilchrist, Kent Bazemore etc to contracts which kill your cap. I'm not talking about a Chandler Parsons situation, where there's an injury. I'm talking overpaying for contributing role players. All the bad teams do it because they think exactly as you do - never be upset to get a nice player, be thankful he wants to play here.

The successful teams don't have those contracts on their roster. This has been proven time and again.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 26, 2019, 03:36:11 AM
Biz, none of those guys you mentioned in your bad contracts list is nearly as productive as Randle has become. He has way more value than any of those guys.

Developing young players is a much smoother process if they can play with vets who produce and have their own positional gravity. Harford and Morris did this for the Celts. Bogut, Iggy, and Livingston for the Dubs. Lopez and Bledsoe did it for the Bucks this year.

We’re gonna have to spend 60 mil somewhere just to hit the salary floor.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 26, 2019, 05:03:31 AM
You can always sign a vet to a big one year deal.
Ariza or Rudy Gay for $20M.  DeMarre Car or Wil Da Mayor for $15M.

You get a savvy vet and starter.  And hopefully a mentor for Knox.
You roll over your cap space.
Likely can add a team option 2nd year at a similarly inflated rate.

But be careful with long term contracts.
We don't need any more 4 year $60+M deals for Tim Jr., Courtly, Noah or David Lee types. 

I'd be happy signing one of Rubio/Brogdon to a long term contract and Ariza/Gay/DMC to a hefty one year dealio this off-season.  Shore up positions of need.  Add in solid vets and defense.  Roll over much of our cap-space.

Another option, is Biz's idea of using cap space to add a vet such as Marv Willaims, MKG, My Leonard and extracting a pick for the service.  Again, avoiding long-term use of cap space while adding an asset and solid player.

I'd monitor Randle.  Maybe he falls through the FA cracks like Lopez did last year.  I'd pick him up at $14M or less (I think).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 26, 2019, 05:26:43 AM
$53M
Brogdon $20M      (or Rubio $16M or so)
Ariza $18M / 1 year   (or Gay)
Marvin Williams $15M + a 1st round pick from CHA

(Almost definitely could get a CHA 1st rounder if we took on Biyombo's 2 year $17M per deal.  But better to get Marv $15M or MKG $13M -- both cheaper and better).

I find Dedmon interesting -- had one or two ATL games where I wondered Who Is That? for a few minutes.  But you don't want Deadman to end up a Mahinmi/Biyombo/Dieng type albatross.  And the C market has deflated considerably.

One thing nice about Rubio or Brogdon is you could easily keep Jr. Smith around to play with and behind them.  it's not like bringing in a Kyrie or Kemba, where Jr. Smith would get all Rozier sulky as the limited min backup.  Rubio not a shooter.  Brog a versatile combo G.

Other 1 year vet PF options.
Taj.  Ed Davis.  Richaun Holmes
Randle 1/$18M if he doesn't get a good offer elsewhere
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 26, 2019, 07:59:28 AM
No to Smith as a backup

If we want to start him at the 2, that is another story.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 26, 2019, 08:08:23 AM
Decisions don't have to be made so soon.
You can try Jr. Smith at starting PG and Brog as starting SG.
You can try Frog at PG and Jr. Smith as backup PG.

See what works.

With Rubio, Jr.Smith is more of a backup PG, but can also play alongside Rubio.  Again, see what works.  Patience

Besides Jr. Smith doesn't have great trade value as of now.  Try to build it up some before any deal.  Some teams would be interested in Smith and even franc, but how much would they give up?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 26, 2019, 08:10:30 AM
Ev Turner was so good for POR they just ditched him for Bazemore.
Turner did all right as a backup.  But shouldn't have gotten a  4/$70M contract.  A massive overpay by POR in the same Summer they gave a similar deal to Crabbe.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 26, 2019, 10:22:06 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on June 26, 2019, 08:08:23 AM
Decisions don't have to be made so soon.
You can try Jr. Smith at starting PG and Brog as starting SG.
You can try Frog at PG and Jr. Smith as backup PG.

See what works.

With Rubio, Jr.Smith is more of a backup PG, but can also play alongside Rubio.  Again, see what works.  Patience

Besides Jr. Smith doesn't have great trade value as of now.  Try to build it up some before any deal.  Some teams would be interested in Smith and even franc, but how much would they give up?

I think he does.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 26, 2019, 10:23:00 AM
As I said - to make the KP deal smell good we need to allow Smith Jr to run this team effectively.  Or deal him for perceived value.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on June 26, 2019, 10:33:34 AM
I would completely agree ... the exact opposite of how we handled Frankie. Real chance. Don't sabotage. Don't destroy value.


*** looks like we got a lot out of the Mudiay/Burke experiments lol...

**** oh wait, Mud did play a HUGE very significant role in getting us the worst record in the league, the actual season goal
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 26, 2019, 12:00:23 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 26, 2019, 03:36:11 AM

We’re gonna have to spend 60 mil somewhere just to hit the salary floor.


Quote from: bodiddley on June 26, 2019, 05:03:31 AM
You can always sign a vet to a big one year deal.

But be careful with long term contracts.


Just a heads up.  Yes there is a salary floor and yes you can sign a vet to a one year deal to reach the floor


HOWEVER

If a team doesn't reach the salary floor the remaining money then would be evenly distributed to the rest of the players.

Mitch and company get a one year BONUS!  I like that more than signing some doofus.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 26, 2019, 12:50:23 PM
Also, don't need to spend all the cap in the summer if things don't work out. There's value in selling cap space throughout the season, as teams look to duck the tax. Easy way to, at a minimum, coax second rounders from teams (if not first rounders).

I mean, a top-20 protected first rounder for taking on Meyers Leonard at the deadline, let's say, is a pretty good offer for the Knicks (given we might be inclined to keep him since he's a potential rotation player and that it wouldn't really cost us anything). Same thing with a host of players. Charlotte may give us a lottery protected 1st to take Bizmack, but they won't necessarily do that until they see where their team is.

This is Plan C, just to be clear, with Plan A being Durant and someone and Plan B being players of the D-Lo/Randle/Brogdon mold.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 26, 2019, 12:56:26 PM
I dont think its a bad line to sell -

Come to the Garden, be the guy for a year, then play with KD/RJ/Knox for a title years 2-3-4.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 26, 2019, 04:06:27 PM
Rockets moving mountains to get a #1 pick to flip to Sixers for Butler.

So...

do we want Tucker?  Capela?  Gordon?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 26, 2019, 04:20:10 PM
No.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on June 26, 2019, 11:25:29 PM
Boogie?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 27, 2019, 01:11:45 AM
As expected, Knicks make Mudiay an unrestricted free agent. There's a chance he's making the minimum as a third string point guard in 2019/20. I think there's a better chance he comes back with no money guaranteed after 2019/20. He scored a lot last year, but everyone knows it was while losing badly every night.

He's still better than Jamal Murray, obviously.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 27, 2019, 01:18:50 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 26, 2019, 04:06:27 PM
Rockets moving mountains to get a #1 pick to flip to Sixers for Butler.

So...

do we want Tucker?  Capela?  Gordon?

We're not exactly the best destination unless we sign an all-star who can play today (who would that even be at this point?). But we can definitely get into the action as a third team facilitating the deal, taking on expiring contracts, and extracting first rounders.

Let's say Portland wants Gordon. We can take back Meyers Leonard and their top-10 protected first rounder and a second rounder, and we send Dotson to Houston.

Then let's say Charlotte wants Capela. We take back Biyombo and either Marvin or MKG and take back two top-10 first rounders, and we also send Allonzo over to Houston (this gets Charlotte under the tax, maybe even far enough to allow them to keep Jeremy Lamb, and makes them a playoff team).

We'd still have enough money to go after one of Julius Randle and Malcolm Brogdon and one of KCP, Al Farouq Aminu and Darren Collison (possibly all but Brogdon on one year deals). Might even be space left over for Vonleh or Mudiay.

It's not a playoff team and three first rounders isn't actually going to happen, but it's a better team than last year and two first rounders and maybe some seconds is totally doable.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 27, 2019, 02:05:19 AM
Quote
Stephen A. Smith reports that Knicks owner James Dolan wants to see Kevin Durant's medical records before offering him a max contract.

Unfortunately Knix are tempted,
What a stupid team.
Think I'll put on my Amare jersey and stop by Dolan's penthouse.

How many broken down aging stars/saviors have Knix signed in the last 2 decades: McGrady, Marbury, Steve Francis, Penny, Amare, McDyess, Derrick Rose, Baron Davis, Jason "The Exception" Kidd, Noah, etc.

You can argue that Durant is better than them, but he's also more broken down.  At least Melo we got in his prime.  Though it took a lot of assets.  And then we re-signed him on a gold-plated 5 year deal when he was aging.

I think it's 50/50 the Knix sign KD to a max deal.
Probably dumb enough to make it a  5 year max.
He's already hobbling around NYC with a grin.
Or if BKY signs him, Knix will probably pivot to Boogie on a one year deal.
It's about selling tickets to out-of-towners and providing false hope.  that's what business the Knix are in . . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 27, 2019, 03:35:31 AM
It would be a mystery why KD would actually want us. I think we’re safe. I don’t think we get any big fish, but the FO shows it made the effort. Then we move onto B and C type plans, or some hybrid of the two.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 27, 2019, 03:41:51 AM
Chiek Diallo and Stanley Johnson are now both UFA’s. So is Chop Suey.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on June 27, 2019, 05:11:26 AM
Yes Murphy's law applies to the knix probably more than any other professional sports franchise.  KD is destined to be a knick.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 27, 2019, 05:35:03 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 27, 2019, 03:35:31 AM
It would be a mystery why KD would actually want us.

Because we're dumb enough to make a deal with GS so Durant gets a 5 year maxi max . . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 27, 2019, 09:44:39 AM
I'm still down with the KD max! Kam and I will keep some spaces open for all y'all on the bandwagon when he's killing it in the ASG in February 2021, while RJ Barrett is showing his ROY trophy to his teammate Anthony Edwards.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 27, 2019, 10:15:54 AM
Looking like Kemba to the Celtics.

Kemba is probably a better fit than Kyrie. He'll put up huge numbers.

But they're going to lose Horford and Marcus Morris and Terry Rozier just to make room for Kemba. Grant Williams and Romeo Longford don't really fit their biggest needs (starting 5, backup 1). They have their room exception.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 27, 2019, 11:08:48 AM
Quote
Walker, a three-time All-Star, is expected to be offered a four-year, $141 million contract from the Celtics -- a deal that he's increasingly likely to accept, league sources said.

I wish when they report a contract or offer they'd also mention the starting salary, and not just the total amount.

I was saying CHA probably needs to start Kemba at $35M to retain him.
I'm guessing the BOS offer starts around $32M.
Jordan not willing to pay out for another mediocre team.
The Biyombo fiasco really kills their cap.

If Kemba leaves, less likely we can extract anything from CHA for taking on one of their bum contracts.
Wonder what they'll do for a PG?
Rozier?  Rubio?  Cory Joe?  Somebody's backup PG?  Delon Wright? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 27, 2019, 01:44:35 PM
Knicks move of the day: moving mudiay away
Also had to chop Kornet

Lance better check his pants.  He's next.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 27, 2019, 03:52:17 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on June 26, 2019, 11:25:29 PM
Boogie?

Boogie and Isiah.  One year Maximunzz.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 27, 2019, 04:00:21 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on June 27, 2019, 01:18:50 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 26, 2019, 04:06:27 PM
Rockets moving mountains to get a #1 pick to flip to Sixers for Butler.

So...

do we want Tucker?  Capela?  Gordon?

We're not exactly the best destination unless we sign an all-star who can play today (who would that even be at this point?). But we can definitely get into the action as a third team facilitating the deal, taking on expiring contracts, and extracting first rounders.

Let's say Portland wants Gordon. We can take back Meyers Leonard and their top-10 protected first rounder and a second rounder, and we send Dotson to Houston.

Then let's say Charlotte wants Capela. We take back Biyombo and either Marvin or MKG and take back two top-10 first rounders, and we also send Allonzo over to Houston (this gets Charlotte under the tax, maybe even far enough to allow them to keep Jeremy Lamb, and makes them a playoff team).

We'd still have enough money to go after one of Julius Randle and Malcolm Brogdon and one of KCP, Al Farouq Aminu and Darren Collison (possibly all but Brogdon on one year deals). Might even be space left over for Vonleh or Mudiay.

It's not a playoff team and three first rounders isn't actually going to happen, but it's a better team than last year and two first rounders and maybe some seconds is totally doable.

Why not just take Gordon?  Or Tucker?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 27, 2019, 04:11:38 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on June 27, 2019, 11:08:48 AM
Quote
Walker, a three-time All-Star, is expected to be offered a four-year, $141 million contract from the Celtics -- a deal that he's increasingly likely to accept, league sources said.

I wish when they report a contract or offer they'd also mention the starting salary, and not just the total amount.

I was saying CHA probably needs to start Kemba at $35M to retain him.
I'm guessing the BOS offer starts around $32M.
Jordan not willing to pay out for another mediocre team.
The Biyombo fiasco really kills their cap.

If Kemba leaves, less likely we can extract anything from CHA for taking on one of their bum contracts.
Wonder what they'll do for a PG?
Rozier?  Rubio?  Cory Joe?  Somebody's backup PG?  Delon Wright?

devonte graham?  4-1 assist/to rate

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 27, 2019, 04:40:30 PM
devonte graham  34% FG
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 27, 2019, 04:41:27 PM
Doesnt matter
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 27, 2019, 04:43:52 PM
I could see Mudiay on that team

NBA Radio (Sirrius) guys this morning were KILLING Hornets.

I disagreed.  180 mil is a lot.  Brendan Haywood was saying Hornets OWE VWalker, since he was previously UNDERpaid so much (6th highest on team, behind guys like Zeller)

No makeup pay in this league - and I stand by "not everyone should be maxed".
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 27, 2019, 07:49:04 PM
Wiz did very well off the Lakers. Wagner, Bonga, and a 2nd round pick for cash.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 28, 2019, 12:12:08 AM
Polling has Al Horford 50% to Dallas

Maybe our Celt friends can tell us why he and Kyrie are so hellbent to get outa Bahstun.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on June 28, 2019, 09:22:55 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 28, 2019, 12:12:08 AM
Polling has Al Horford 50% to Dallas

Maybe our Celt friends can tell us why he and Kyrie are so hellbent to get outa Bahstun.

Al is kind of a mystery. I suspect $$ and years is the reason. The story, just a few weeks ago, was Al would opt out of his $31M deal, and sign a 3/85 type deal with the Celts, trading $$ for more guaranteed years. Apparently in the interim Al found his value higher like the rumored 4/112 offer (Dalas?) and the Celts didn't want to go there.

I liked Al-he will be missed.

Kyrie, as good as he can be, spit the bit, was too mercurial, and was not the leader he thought he was.

He was more asshole than alpha.

Earlier this year I posed the rhetorical question, where will KI be happy? It was either Lester or Bo who answered, KI will never be happy.

Kemba appears a decent KI replacement and probably a better fit.

The real loss is Al.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 28, 2019, 09:52:47 AM
Lakers situation

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2843163-what-can-la-lakers-do-now-with-newfound-max-cap-space?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_campaign=editorial&utm_medium=referral

Scroll all the way down and there is a nice list of talent - options for LA - but also applicable to us

Names that are interesting are Seth Curry, Nicola Vucevic, Nerlens Noel, Corey Joseph and Al Horford.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 28, 2019, 10:07:11 AM
Statistically - other than games played - Irving was an exceptional Celtic

Bettered his career shooting percentages across the board.

Shot poorly in playoffs, was not media savvy and thus was the perfect scapegoat for Danny and Brad.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 28, 2019, 10:10:59 AM
Didn't make anyone better.
Complained about the young guys.
Moped.
Dispirited the whole team.

but his numbers looked good ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on June 28, 2019, 10:15:57 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 28, 2019, 10:07:11 AM
Statistically - other than games played - Irving was an exceptional Celtic

Bettered his career shooting percentages across the board.

Shot poorly in playoffs, was not media savvy and thus was the perfect scapegoat for Danny and Brad.

Lies, damn lies and statistics.

He wanted a team to lead to buoy his insecurity over the Celts almost winning the East without him. But instead he was a prima dona finger-pointing blame the other guy ahole.

there were far too many sets where he'd handle the ball for 20 seconds while 4 guys watched the KI handle show.

it made for interesting stats, maybe great fantasy results, but bad team basketball.

He deserves a big slug of blame for the shit-show that was last year.

Its laughable to suggest he was an excpetional Celtic.

He wasn't close to that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 28, 2019, 10:21:55 AM
Is Jaylen Brown now a failed pick?

If Celts warts were so evident, why did they not trade Horford?

Answer:  They WEREN'T evident - since Brown, Rozier, Tatum and playing Horford so much at center were overrated aspects of the organization.

Rozier is also leaving.  WOW.  Blow the fucker up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 28, 2019, 10:29:03 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on June 28, 2019, 10:10:59 AM
Didn't make anyone better.

Tired, overused term
Quote
Complained about the young guys.

And?  Justifiably?

Quote
Moped.

Cared
Quote
Dispirited the whole team.

Scapegoat - as I said.
Quote

but his numbers looked good


WERE good.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on June 28, 2019, 10:34:48 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 28, 2019, 10:21:55 AM
Is Jaylen Brown now a failed pick?

If Celts warts were so evident, why did they not trade Horford?

Answer:  They WEREN'T evident - since Brown, Rozier, Tatum and playing Horford so much at center were overrated aspects of the organization.

Rozier is also leaving.  WOW.  Blow the fucker up.

Kid your post is gibberish.

You didn't watch the Celts last year did you?

I don't blame you, at times they were unwatchable, but at times they played pretty good basketball.

But inconsistency and a disaapointing year was the result.

Remember Game 1 of the Eastern semi's where they blew the doors off Milwaukee and then they disappeared?
Paul Pierce probably remembers.

LOL

But the inconsistency from so many players, but primarily KI, Rozier, a somewhat tough year for Tatum, and the still recovering Hayward who never was 100% hurt the team.

Brown had a very good year, he has the makings of a very good 2-way player.

And Al had a real solid year.

as did maybe my favorite Celt, Marcus Smart.

No need to blow it up.

They've a lot of talent on that team. Its interesting you don't see it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 28, 2019, 10:35:58 AM
Simply stated - Kyrie is a GFP -

and now will be busting Celts from within the division.

Yes, Mr Walker should do fine as the new nanny for Tatum.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 28, 2019, 10:40:16 AM
Here's a good list of 50 non-star FA's:

From that list, I could go for:

PG's: Pa Bev
McConnell could be good for CHA, and they could go with Rose, Rivers, etc.  Options.

Young Bigs: Khem Birch, JaMychal Green, Kornet CHop Suey,

1 year vets: Taj, Ed Davis, Demarre, Gay,
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 28, 2019, 10:44:15 AM
"You didnt wattch the Celts last year, did you?"

- I watched every team.   Boston lost to a better team.  A team whose star played better in the series.  An emerging and WISE team - not one that is falling apart, begging players and making deals and picks wily-nily.

I thought the Kyrie deal was a gamble at the time - but it may very well have paid off with a conference banner had Kyrie not been injured in 2018.  And having him run this team for less than 20 mil per was on the cheap.

The cost of the deal?  A good solder like Crowder and the pick that became Sexton.  Is what it is.....

Now there is talk of an I.T. return.  Good for him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on June 28, 2019, 10:47:48 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 28, 2019, 10:35:58 AM
Simply stated - Kyrie is a GFP -

and now will be busting Celts from within the division.

Yes, Mr Walker should do fine as the new nanny for Tatum.

if Kemba signs with the Celts and can get the ball to Tatum/Brown with a greater regularity than prioritized by KI, I'm sure it will work out just fine for the the potential all-stars.

And I suspect Ki's return to the parquet floor in a new jersey will make for must see TV.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 28, 2019, 10:51:00 AM
Get the ball to 13 and 15 PER players.

Yeah - good plan.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 28, 2019, 10:52:53 AM
If Celts sign Enes Kanter and feed him, you may have something.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 28, 2019, 10:53:52 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 28, 2019, 10:29:03 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on June 28, 2019, 10:10:59 AM
Didn't make anyone better.

Tired, overused term
Quote

Kyrie was the Point, with the ball in his hands.  He was supposed to run the team and get guys shots.
Instead, he was good at doing Kyrie.
Did anybody else put up good numbers on the Celts last year?
Morris had a couple good months.

Too bad Horford likely leaves, because I think a Kemba run team with the same players would outperform Kyrie's C's.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on June 28, 2019, 10:54:17 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 28, 2019, 10:44:15 AM
"You didnt wattch the Celts last year, did you?"

- I watched every team.   Boston lost to a better team.  A team whose star played better in the series.  An emerging and WISE team - not one that is falling apart, begging players and making deals and picks wily-nily.

I thought the Kyrie deal was a gamble at the time - but it may very well have paid off with a conference banner had Kyrie not been injured in 2018.  And having him run this team for less than 20 mil per was on the cheap.

The cost of the deal?  A good solder like Crowder and the pick that became Sexton.  Is what it is.....

Now there is talk of an I.T. return.  Good for him.

The Bucks were the better team. But that wasn't the point under discussion.

It was your interesting but misguided insights and biases about a team you did not watch very often.

and the KI trade was one every GM in the NBA would make.  It was basically getting a top 10-15 talent for the 8th pick in the draft.

And solved the IT problem.

And he's not coming back. That Brinks truck is way down the Mass Pike and headed west.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 28, 2019, 10:58:36 AM
Your contention then is that a more "proper" Kyrie could have MADE Boston a better team than Milwaukee (and of course include TOR int here as well)?

No?

Then what's your whining about.  Kyrie was good - the team was SHORT.  And Danny has work to do.

Note to Bo - Brad Stevens ran much of the Celts offense.  And young teams often don't run the floor and space themselves properly.  Babysitting can be tough.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on June 28, 2019, 11:07:46 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 28, 2019, 10:58:36 AM
Your contention then is that a more "proper" Kyrie could have MADE Boston a better team than Milwaukee (and of course include TOR int here as well)?

No?

YThen what's your whining about.  Kyrie was good - the team was SHORT.  And Danny has work to do.

Note to Bo - Brad Stevens ran much of the Celts offense.  And young teams often don't run the floor and space themselves properly.  Babysitting can be tough.

Bucks were better than the Celts and they had no answer for GF and the 3-pointers that the Bucks threw at them.

I'm not whining at all kid.

I'm just rebutting your mischaracterizations about a team you seem to love to dump on.

Celts were a clusterfuck last year with lots of contributors, but having an insecure alpha male PG who wanted to prove his alphaness after the Celts came close to winning the East without him, was a big-part of the problem.

Kemba if signed will help.

they will miss Al and Baynes, I still hope they give Al that 4th year, but its probably too late, but whatever they do they need to bolster paint presence.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 28, 2019, 11:11:43 AM
The team which looked so promising is at best THIRD in the conference heading to next season - and losing its 2 best players

Yeah, I am having some fun with it.

I will admit - remind, actually - to the forum that as much fun as I have grilling Stevens, he was on my list for Knicks coach before Boston even considered him.  So I know the guy has slkills. 

Danny needs to stock the cupboard for him.

Next - how do you feel about the Celts draft?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on June 28, 2019, 11:19:01 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 28, 2019, 11:11:43 AM
The team which looked so promising is at best THIRD in the conference heading to next season - and losing its 2 best players

Yeah, I am having some fun with it.

I will admit - remind, actually - to the forum that as much fun as I have grilling Stevens, he was on my list for Knicks coach before Boston even considered him.  So I know the guy has slkills. 

Danny needs to stock the cupboard for him.

Next - how do you feel about the Celts draft?

Bench players/projects. Maybe the two kids from Indiana will help.

Celts real need now is an interior presence 4/5.

re Brad-I can only imagine his conversations with Ainge about how to deal with the royal PitA KI, a guy they considered key in the KI/AD equation,  and Danny told him to deal with the asshole as best he could.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on June 28, 2019, 11:22:50 AM
Bo....I love your stuff, but you could do at least the non-creative among us a favor and post the real names of the guys you speak of..   
Title: Why not us?
Post by: Kam on June 28, 2019, 11:57:23 AM
Mavs, Celts, Suns, Bulls linked to Brogdon
Title: Re: Why not us?
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 28, 2019, 12:14:28 PM
Quote from: Kam on June 28, 2019, 11:57:23 AM
Mavs, Celts, Suns, Bulls linked to Brogdon

Brogdon is one of my favourite players in the L. But I suspect that while the Bucks initially may have hoped to sign him for a deal starting at $15m a year, the aforementioned teams (aside from Boston) are going to submit escalating bids until he receives a deal an excess of $20m. I predict a crazy contract for a guy who doesn't create his own shot or protect the rim.

Do the Knicks want to go that high?
Title: Re: Why not us?
Post by: lesterluv on June 28, 2019, 12:31:28 PM
Quote from: Kam on June 28, 2019, 11:57:23 AM
Mavs, Celts, Suns, Bulls linked to Brogdon

Probably not, and Why Not Us? Well, cause the Mavs & Suns would be adding Brogdon to two perceived cornerstones in place. The Celts to a deep playoff team.

You can come out ahead when you're filling in the corners laying out big money or even overpaying wildly for promising, but very incomplete young players like Brogdon or Randall, but are usually super-f'ing yerself when its the beginning of your foundation building process.
Title: FIBA World Cup Aug 31 - Sep 15
Post by: Kam on June 28, 2019, 01:00:50 PM
Giannis to play for Greece

Greece is in Group F with Brasil, New Zealand, and Montenegro


http://www.fiba.basketball/basketballworldcup/2019 (http://www.fiba.basketball/basketballworldcup/2019)
Title: Re: Why not us?
Post by: Kam on June 28, 2019, 01:31:24 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on June 28, 2019, 12:14:28 PM
Quote from: Kam on June 28, 2019, 11:57:23 AM
Mavs, Celts, Suns, Bulls linked to Brogdon

Brogdon is one of my favourite players in the L. But I suspect that while the Bucks initially may have hoped to sign him for a deal starting at $15m a year, the aforementioned teams (aside from Boston) are going to submit escalating bids until he receives a deal an excess of $20m. I predict a crazy contract for a guy who doesn't create his own shot or protect the rim.

Do the Knicks want to go that high?

We are sitting at the table with the most chips.   Why not outbid?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 28, 2019, 01:42:45 PM
Folks here think anytime we "overpay", even if getting OUR GUY, it is a mistake.

Seriously poor thinking in professional sports world.
Title: Re: Why not us?
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 28, 2019, 01:45:38 PM
Quote from: Kam on June 28, 2019, 01:31:24 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on June 28, 2019, 12:14:28 PM
Quote from: Kam on June 28, 2019, 11:57:23 AM
Mavs, Celts, Suns, Bulls linked to Brogdon

Brogdon is one of my favourite players in the L. But I suspect that while the Bucks initially may have hoped to sign him for a deal starting at $15m a year, the aforementioned teams (aside from Boston) are going to submit escalating bids until he receives a deal an excess of $20m. I predict a crazy contract for a guy who doesn't create his own shot or protect the rim.

Do the Knicks want to go that high?

We are sitting at the table with the most chips.   Why not outbid?

Because the point isn't, as Kid suggests, to get the best player. It's to build the best team. And you generally can't do that with bad contracts.

Look at how much trouble Houston is having simply because of the Chris Paul contract. A more reasonable deal would have been movable.

We shouldn't sign any deal which can't be moved. Brogdon, whom I love, makes sense at some number but not at any number. There are better uses of cap space than say $25m on Brogdon.
Title: Knicks decline team option for John Jenkins
Post by: Kam on June 28, 2019, 01:46:37 PM
Jenkins played 22 games for the Knicks last season

Yesterday we chopped Kornet and said go away to Mudiay.
Today we Leeroyed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leeroy_Jenkins) John Jenkins.

Why don't they announce all these moves at the same time?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 28, 2019, 01:53:05 PM
Houston will be making another strong run next year - and with a very effective Chris Paul.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 28, 2019, 01:56:49 PM
For the record I am not in favor of giving Mr Brogdon anywhere near 25 mil.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 28, 2019, 02:02:07 PM
I'd pay The Frog $18M.  And probably up to $20M.
He really is a heady player.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on June 28, 2019, 02:20:12 PM
I would very much like to have him. There is some number that is right for us, and some number that is wrong. I don't do cap. But to think that we are in the same position as the other teams listed shows a real misunderstanding of how things work. There is a penalty. And the penalty is usually steep and lasting...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 28, 2019, 03:05:06 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 28, 2019, 01:53:05 PM
Houston will be making another strong run next year - and with a very effective Chris Paul.

I certainly didn't suggest they weren't. But if Paul were earning $10m less, the Rockets would be in an even better position.

Good teams rarely have bad contracts. Houston is more-or-less an exception.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 28, 2019, 04:17:11 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on June 28, 2019, 02:02:07 PM
I'd pay The Frog $18M.  And probably up to $20M.
He really is a heady player.

Other teams can't afford to risk offering him $20mil and waiting 7 days while that money is tied up and they can't make offers to other free agents.   We can easily offer $20 mil and still go about our free agent business -- provided we stop chasing the KD&KI dream.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 28, 2019, 04:42:03 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on June 28, 2019, 03:05:06 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 28, 2019, 01:53:05 PM
Houston will be making another strong run next year - and with a very effective Chris Paul.

I certainly didn't suggest they weren't. But if Paul were earning $10m less, the Rockets would be in an even better position.


Meh.

And how good if they didnt have Paul?  Was he signed over the cap to begin with?  If so you dont get that 40 mil dollar for dollar.
Title: Danny OWES Chico
Post by: carlos123 on June 28, 2019, 09:41:52 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 28, 2019, 11:11:43 AM

I will admit - remind, actually - to the forum that as much fun as I have grilling Stevens, he was on my list for Knicks coach before Boston even considered him.  So I know the guy has slkills. 

Danny needs to stock the cupboard for him.


I don't remember seeing any post about Brad Stevens before he was hired by Ainge, but I'm sure Danny has better memory and does remember. He OWES Chico big time!

Bank, I hope you're grateful too. Least you can do...
Title: Re: Danny OWES Chico
Post by: bankshot1 on June 28, 2019, 10:51:36 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on June 28, 2019, 09:41:52 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 28, 2019, 11:11:43 AM

I will admit - remind, actually - to the forum that as much fun as I have grilling Stevens, he was on my list for Knicks coach before Boston even considered him.  So I know the guy has slkills. 

Danny needs to stock the cupboard for him.


I don't remember seeing any post about Brad Stevens before he was hired by Ainge, but I'm sure Danny has better memory and does remember. He OWES Chico big time!

Bank, I hope you're grateful too. Least you can do...

Carlos I give thanks everyday.

I recall Chico claiming to having discovered Brad when Brad was coaching school ball at Hickory High, 20 years ago.

And to parahrase yankguy "Chico knows things"
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 28, 2019, 11:07:47 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 28, 2019, 10:52:53 AM
If Celts sign Enes Kanter and feed him, you may have something.

They should avoid feeding him too much or he’ll become a 400 pound player waddling around the court like donald trump at a summit meeting. No one wants to see that and it doesn’t win anything.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 29, 2019, 02:02:28 AM
Quote from: Kam on June 28, 2019, 04:17:11 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on June 28, 2019, 02:02:07 PM
I'd pay The Frog $18M.  And probably up to $20M.
He really is a heady player.

Other teams can't afford to risk offering him $20mil and waiting 7 days while that money is tied up and they can't make offers to other free agents.   We can easily offer $20 mil and still go about our free agent business -- provided we stop chasing the KD&KI dream.

Bulls and Suns are under the cap and can afford to wait the 48 hours (not seven days) just as much as the Knicks can.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 29, 2019, 02:04:54 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 28, 2019, 04:42:03 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on June 28, 2019, 03:05:06 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 28, 2019, 01:53:05 PM
Houston will be making another strong run next year - and with a very effective Chris Paul.

I certainly didn't suggest they weren't. But if Paul were earning $10m less, the Rockets would be in an even better position.


Meh.

And how good if they didnt have Paul?  Was he signed over the cap to begin with?  If so you dont get that 40 mil dollar for dollar.

They had Bird Rights, they didn't have to max him, since no other team would go as high.

But how good would they be? They'd be enough under the cap to make a run at Jimmy Butler. The Rockets would gladly take Butler in Paul's salary spot right now. They clearly regret the contract they gave to Paul, which they cannot give away. They want more than anything a two-way bully wing, noticing that most championship teams have one.

Chris Paul - great player, bad contract.
Title: WINNING
Post by: carlos123 on June 29, 2019, 02:05:00 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 28, 2019, 11:07:47 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 28, 2019, 10:52:53 AM
If Celts sign Enes Kanter and feed him, you may have something.

They should avoid feeding him too much or he’ll become a 400 pound player waddling around the court like donald trump at a summit meeting. No one wants to see that and it doesn’t win anything.

Well, Donaldo, like Chico, claims to be winning all the time, 400 pounds and all. Feeding is never too much.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 29, 2019, 04:47:01 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 26, 2019, 10:22:06 AM

Quote from: bodiddley on June 26, 2019, 08:08:23 AM
Besides Jr. Smith doesn't have great trade value as of now.  Try to build it up some before any deal.  Some teams would be interested in Smith and even franc, but how much would they give up?

I think he does.

Quote from: Zach Lowe
The league is collectively down on New York's main second- and third-year players: Frank Ntilikina, Dennis Smith Jr., and Kevin Knox. (As I've said often on the Lowe Post, the league got too far down, too fast, on Smith -- even if I see all the warts. I'm interested to see how he develops. Knox has a very important sophomore year coming up.)

I didn't see a lot of the last 20+ games, and so didn't see Jr. Smith too much.  But nobody seemed too excited about his NY run, and he looked erratic in what I saw.

I'm looking forward to evaluating him this season.

Lowe also suggests Tangelo as a reasonable option; thinks a 1 year Boogie signing is sensible; but doesn't peep a word about Brogdon.
Eh; ugh; why not?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 29, 2019, 11:38:07 AM
On the Knicks radar: Terry Rozier and Robin Lopez.

RoLo makes a lot more sense than Boogie, as he would likely be agreeable with playing fewer minutes. He also loved NYC. Might be worth a one year deal.

I think I prefer D-Lo, even at the $25 million max, to Rozier at, say, $16 million. If Rozier wants to come for something around half that, then you definitely sign him long term and let him battle DSJ for the starting role. But at $16 million you pretty much have to move DSJ.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 29, 2019, 11:40:13 AM
Woj bomb: Reporting w/ @ramonashelburne: Kevin Durant and Kawhi Leonard have been discussing free agent scenarios that could include a future with them playing together. For now, there are two clear possibilities for them to sign into the same franchise: Clippers and Knicks."

(Nets can easily get into that discussion)

(I just can't see Knicks being preferable to Brooklyn or the Clippers for that particular configuration)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 29, 2019, 01:16:19 PM
Durant said he only planned to meet with GSW, LAC, NYK, BKY.

Kawhi is from LA, right?
And Durant has been playing in Cali.

And Clips have some solid talent.
Have to think they'd be a favorite if Kawhi stuffs TOR.

So Durant the Crip might have a choice of joining Kyrie in BKY or Kawhi in LA.  Both likely offering max deals for a guy with a terrible injury and a full year of rehab ahead.  Kind of crazy. 
And Durant's fallback is a championship caliber GSW team.
Sorry, but Knix look 4th best . . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 29, 2019, 01:38:44 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on June 29, 2019, 01:16:19 PM
Durant said he only planned to meet with GSW, LAC, NYK, BKY.

Kawhi is from LA, right?
And Durant has been playing in Cali.

And Clips have some solid talent.
Have to think they'd be a favorite if Kawhi stuffs TOR.

So Durant the Crip might have a choice of joining Kyrie in BKY or Kawhi in LA.  Both likely offering max deals for a guy with a terrible injury and a full year of rehab ahead.  Kind of crazy.

KD has had trouble staying healthy even before the achilles injury. He's missed a bunch of games every year. He clearly will be load managed upon his return.

Of course I'd still sign him to the max. It's a risk. With downside. But the upside is crazy, if he's 80% of his former self it's a good deal and if he's any better than that it's a great deal.

I think he goes to the Nets.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 29, 2019, 02:11:47 PM
80% of his former self, when?

Y1 he rehabs - age 31 season.
Y2 he probably comes back a bit tentatively (think Hayward, Boogie, PG13) - age 32
Y3 KD might return to being 80% of KD, while aging out of his prime  - age 33 season
Y4 KD is aging and has had injuries - age 34
Y5 KD is kinda old - age 35

So let me guess:
Y1 age 31 KD = 0%
Y2 age 32 KD = 40% 1st half of season / 60% 2nd half
Y3 age 33 KD = 75% (if he stays healthy)
-- This year represents his best shot at returning to form --
Y4 age 34 KD = 60%
Y5 age 35 KD = Melo

If you think that's uncharitable, you can tack on an extra 5% each year if you're an optimist.

So:
Y1 is useless; Y5 likely fading significantly
Y2 likely a slow return plus half a good year.
So if you're lucky you might get 2 1/2 good years out of an aging, damaged KD.  At the low, low price of $40M or whatever.
Sure hope the Knix are 4th out of 4 on his list.

Can anyone see Kawhi coming to NYK to play with our sketchy yute for a year, while waiting for KD to rehab?  Would he really waste a year (or two) of his career, just to play in NY with Durant.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 29, 2019, 03:11:40 PM
Ball is in KDs court.  No doubt at all that we take him if he wants to come.  Or that we also take whoever he wants as a running mate
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 29, 2019, 03:16:36 PM
Can't wait for KD! Come to NY!

(sorry Bo. I'm all in)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 29, 2019, 03:18:25 PM
Promise me just 4 years . . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 29, 2019, 03:29:47 PM
Ohhh, Danny!

Listening on NBA radio..... both the Sixers and Celtics had better Kawhi packages but turned Spurs down.

Celts were keeping their assets for AD and had no clue Kyrie would leave.

Ouch.
Title: Knicks lance lance
Post by: Kam on June 29, 2019, 04:03:29 PM
The lance Thomas era (5 years) is mercifully done.
Title: Longest tenured Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 29, 2019, 04:20:05 PM
Ntilikina
Dotson
Title: Kemba a Celtic
Post by: Kam on June 29, 2019, 04:47:16 PM
Done deal.
Title: Knicks high on
Post by: Kam on June 29, 2019, 04:49:02 PM
George Hill
Wayne Ellington

Veteran mentors
Title: Mirotic going back to Europe
Post by: Kam on June 29, 2019, 05:20:43 PM
Bye Nikolai
Title: Re: Longest tenured Knicks
Post by: elephant on June 29, 2019, 06:28:47 PM
Quote from: Kam on June 29, 2019, 04:20:05 PM
Ntilikina
Dotson
Wow.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on June 29, 2019, 06:32:21 PM
Brooklyn is a decent team, but is Kryie really a magnet for some free agent star? That would really surprise me.
Title: Boston sets Rozier free
Post by: Kam on June 29, 2019, 07:01:59 PM
Rozier now a UFA
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on June 29, 2019, 07:38:17 PM
Knicks have to lose out on all these rumors about being one of the finalists about players teaming up.

Better to send KD and Kawhi to the Nets or at least the Clips.

Not sure anymore how to handle things otherwise.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on June 29, 2019, 07:41:11 PM
Quote from: elephant on June 29, 2019, 06:32:21 PM
Brooklyn is a decent team, but is Kryie really a magnet for some free agent star? That would really surprise me.

Some reports that Kyrie going to the Nets could somehow cause a problem for KD wanting to join (Begley?) because of claims he doesn't want to appear to follow anyone, and if Kyrie is a Net (as we are hearing more of a reality and D'Angelo a Laker) that also would pose problems for the latest rumors of Kawhi and KD together somewhere.

KD and Kyrie to the Clips. It is written in erasable marker.

Title: Re: Kemba a Celtic
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 29, 2019, 08:10:05 PM
Quote from: Kam on June 29, 2019, 04:47:16 PM
Done deal.

6:00 tomorrow.
Title: Re: Kemba a Celtic
Post by: carlos123 on June 29, 2019, 10:37:45 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 29, 2019, 08:10:05 PM
Quote from: Kam on June 29, 2019, 04:47:16 PM
Done deal.

6:00 tomorrow.

That's great for Celtics. Much better for them than prima-donna KI. Congrats Bank!
Title: Important cap numbers
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 30, 2019, 12:41:54 AM

Salary Cap: $109.140m (Knicks have to get to 90% of this by the end of the season)
Luxury Tax: $132.627m

Max (25%): $27.285m  (e.g., D-Lo)
Max (30%): $32.742m  (e.g., Kawhi, Kemba, Kyrie)
Max (35%): $38.199m  (e.g., Durant)

Non-tax MLE: $9.258m
Tax payers' MLE: $5.718m
Room Exception: $4.767m  (this is the only exception teams under the cap, such as the Lakers and Knicks, will have)
Biannual Exception: $3.623m  (Knicks used this last year on Allonzo Trier. Don't have one this year)

Cash available to used in trades: $5.617m

Early Bird: $9.6054m  (I don't believe Knicks have any Early Bird players this year)
Title: Re: Boston sets Rozier free
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 30, 2019, 12:43:24 AM
Quote from: Kam on June 29, 2019, 07:01:59 PM
Rozier now a UFA

Won't come cheap, Charlotte is going to pursue him aggressively.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 30, 2019, 03:45:32 AM
So BOS loses both of its PG's and recovers nicely with Kemba.  Sure he costs a lot, is shrimpy, and more a Lowry-type grinder than a super-talent.
But he's a hard-worker, focused, seems solid and steady.  With Kyrie and (likely) Horford gone, Celts need Kemba's leadership.

Nets.  Pay Kyrie $35M per or Tangelo $27M?  Kyrie a genuine PG, and an offensive wizard.  Can he get along with the young guys?  Can he actually lead?  Good thing for BKY is Kyrie has already jerked his way out of his last two stops.  So a failure in BKY, will really hurt Kyrie's rep and legacy.

Tangelo is young, but sloppy, and still more of a combo G than PG.
So I think it's the right move for the Nets.  But I'm glad the risks that come with Kyrie -- health and attitude -- are being borne by another team and not the Knix.

Probably Rozier to CHA, so it's a question where tangelo winds up.  Mini interested.  Lakes too.  PHX? 

Apparently DRose to DTroit.

If this all goes down, they'll be fewer teams looking for a PG.
I'm still interested in Brogdon, Rubio, Pa Bev.
Doesn't it seem like Rubio should have been a Knick PG already?
Title: Re: Kemba a Celtic
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 30, 2019, 09:00:03 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on June 29, 2019, 10:37:45 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 29, 2019, 08:10:05 PM
Quote from: Kam on June 29, 2019, 04:47:16 PM
Done deal.

6:00 tomorrow.

That's great for Celtics. Much better for them than prima-donna KI. Congrats Bank!

Heh

We'll see.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 30, 2019, 09:02:29 AM
I don't think we are adding a point guard, 'los.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 30, 2019, 09:13:30 AM
My preference is for Raptors to retain Kawhi.  But I wouldn't mind KD/Kawhi teaming up somewhere.

(Yeah... believe it.  NY?  Crazy biz.  Never know.)
Title: Re: Kemba a Celtic
Post by: bankshot1 on June 30, 2019, 10:18:56 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on June 29, 2019, 10:37:45 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 29, 2019, 08:10:05 PM
Quote from: Kam on June 29, 2019, 04:47:16 PM
Done deal.

6:00 tomorrow.

That's great for Celtics. Much better for them than prima-donna KI. Congrats Bank!


If its a done deal, its a decent recovery from KI's departure.

IMO Celts will miss Al's 2-way game and attitude. And he won't be easily replaced.

With Al and Baynes gone they need some interior redecoration.

Another key will be whether Gordo can play like the Gordo used to play.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 30, 2019, 10:45:46 AM
Vucevic to get 4-100 from Magic.  Nice.
Title: PG
Post by: carlos123 on June 30, 2019, 12:38:54 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 30, 2019, 09:02:29 AM
I don't think we are adding a point guard, 'los.

That’s cool. Certainly much better than getting KI.
Title: Re: Kemba a Celtic
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 30, 2019, 02:05:20 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on June 30, 2019, 10:18:56 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on June 29, 2019, 10:37:45 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 29, 2019, 08:10:05 PM
Quote from: Kam on June 29, 2019, 04:47:16 PM
Done deal.

6:00 tomorrow.

That's great for Celtics. Much better for them than prima-donna KI. Congrats Bank!


If its a done deal, its a decent recovery from KI's departure.

IMO Celts will miss Al's 2-way game and attitude. And he won't be easily replaced.

With Al and Baynes gone they need some interior redecoration.

Another key will be whether Gordo can play like the Gordo used to play.

Horford is not 100% gone - Celtics can operate as an above-the-cap team if there is a sign-and-trade for Kemba as well as one for Rozier. Kevin O'Connor mused about the mystery team for Horford being Boston. They'd have a full mid-level exception too, although the hard cap probably precludes using all of it.

Basically, if they keep Horford and replace Kyrie with Kemba, I think they are the slight faves to come out of the East, even if Milwaukee, Toronto and Philadelphia can all bring back the band. And if Horford leaves, and they don't get to operate as an above the cap team, then they've got major issues with their big rotation. They'd have about ~4.5m to throw at a Robin Lopez type to start at the 5, and they'd be looking at minimum guys to toggle with Grant Williams and small-ball Jayson Tatum for the 4. That's not a contending team's power rotation. And if Horford, say, goes to Brooklyn and Jimmy Butler ends up in Miami? Then Boston ends up as one of the lower seeds in the East.

So, there's a lot riding for the Celtics on Al Horford right now.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 30, 2019, 02:26:13 PM
Agree.  Horford did some heroic work for BOS.  He'll be missed.

Glad we're not investing $25M per on Vuc.  Surprised he cashed in that well.  ORL an odd team putting together it's frontcourt first. 
Doesn't the guy they drafted play Isaac's position?

As for Los Knickers, I'd add a Point and a vet F.

Title: Re: Kemba a Celtic
Post by: bankshot1 on June 30, 2019, 02:52:40 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on June 30, 2019, 02:05:20 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on June 30, 2019, 10:18:56 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on June 29, 2019, 10:37:45 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 29, 2019, 08:10:05 PM
Quote from: Kam on June 29, 2019, 04:47:16 PM
Done deal.

6:00 tomorrow.

That's great for Celtics. Much better for them than prima-donna KI. Congrats Bank!


If its a done deal, its a decent recovery from KI's departure.

IMO Celts will miss Al's 2-way game and attitude. And he won't be easily replaced.

With Al and Baynes gone they need some interior redecoration.

Another key will be whether Gordo can play like the Gordo used to play.

Horford is not 100% gone - Celtics can operate as an above-the-cap team if there is a sign-and-trade for Kemba as well as one for Rozier. Kevin O'Connor mused about the mystery team for Horford being Boston. They'd have a full mid-level exception too, although the hard cap probably precludes using all of it.

Basically, if they keep Horford and replace Kyrie with Kemba, I think they are the slight faves to come out of the East, even if Milwaukee, Toronto and Philadelphia can all bring back the band. And if Horford leaves, and they don't get to operate as an above the cap team, then they've got major issues with their big rotation. They'd have about ~4.5m to throw at a Robin Lopez type to start at the 5, and they'd be looking at minimum guys to toggle with Grant Williams and small-ball Jayson Tatum for the 4. That's not a contending team's power rotation. And if Horford, say, goes to Brooklyn and Jimmy Butler ends up in Miami? Then Boston ends up as one of the lower seeds in the East.

So, there's a lot riding for the Celtics on Al Horford right now.

I am totally lost when it comes to the Byzantine world of the NBA cap, but the way I've read it is that to sign Kemba (non S&T) there is no cap room for Al. And I'm pretty sure that the Celts rescinded the QO for Rozier to free up Kemba $$$.

I think the Celts were at 3/85-ish for Al and he wanted 4-something.

Al's good both ends of the cort and will be missed.

So as best I can figure it, Al will end up somehow with the Lakers.

Maybe you guys get Rozier. Who if he plays under control can do good things, not great, but good.

maybe KI can team up with Jimmer in China.

They'd be awesome together.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 30, 2019, 03:31:55 PM
You can go over the cap to re-sign your own guys (as long as you have Bird Rights on him).  So I'm assuming BOS can simply sign Kemba using space and then go over the cap to re-sign AL.  Haven't looked into BOS situation specifically, but that's my general understanding.  Whether that'd put them into lux tax is another issue. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on June 30, 2019, 03:53:18 PM
I understand (most) of that stuff, its the list of exemptions and exceptions that I find hard to keep track of.

Just heard a rumor (Woj) of a 3-team daisy chain S&T

Celts-KI to Nets (plus a pick probably)

Hornets-Kemba to Celts

Celts-Rozier to Hornets

Al resigns with Boston under Bird rights.

we'll see
 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 30, 2019, 04:23:45 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on June 30, 2019, 03:31:55 PM
You can go over the cap to re-sign your own guys (as long as you have Bird Rights on him).  So I'm assuming BOS can simply sign Kemba using space and then go over the cap to re-sign AL.  Haven't looked into BOS situation specifically, but that's my general understanding.  Whether that'd put them into lux tax is another issue.

It's more complicated. They have to renounce their rights to Horford and Morris to get far enough under the cap to sign Kemba. Your unsigned players always have cap holds that count against your projected space.

But if they sign and trade Kyrie to the Nets and at the same time Rozier to the Hornets, and the Hornets sign and trade Kemba to Boston, Boston does this all without having to renounce Horford or Morris. It would be huge for Boston. It's good for Charlotte, since they can make a more competitive offer to Rozier.

There are three problems:

1. Rozier may find a richer offer than the Hornets wish to pay (presumably from Phoenix, who are the most logical destination for him)
2. All three teams would be hard-capped and could not enter the luxury tax this year, which isn't that big of a deal in the short term but limits trade options later in the year.
3. The Nets really have to ask themselves what Boston can provide as a sweetener (a first round pick? Maybe more?) that would make it worth their while to help Boston be better than them. The Nets should be trying to sign Horford outright if they don't get Durant, not helping Boston be a great team.

I'd say the first two are pretty manageable issues, but the third is not. I wouldn't help Boston were I the Nets.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on June 30, 2019, 04:34:49 PM
"Manhattan keeps on makin' it, Brooklyn keeps on takin' it..."
Title: Brook Lopez staying in Mil
Post by: Kam on June 30, 2019, 04:37:56 PM
Gets a big raise.   4 yrs for 52.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 30, 2019, 04:44:10 PM
I was going to mention Al's cap hold.
Not surprised they can't sign Kemba with the cap hold in place.

Title: KD to the Nyets
Post by: Kam on June 30, 2019, 05:01:21 PM
Kyrie brainwashed him
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 30, 2019, 05:25:16 PM
Folks laughed when I said the Nets were a better destination than Knix.

And that BKY could get Durant (pre- and post-injury).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on June 30, 2019, 05:30:28 PM
I could not be more relieved.

Good on our FO.

ESPN just keeps kicking the Knicks in the nuts with the phony culture argument.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 30, 2019, 05:35:34 PM
Kyrie - Dinwiddie
Lavert - Joe Harrisburg
T Prince - (DMC)
Kurucs - (RHJ)
Jar Allen - DeAndre

Weak at PF.  Which is where Durnat will slot in the following season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on June 30, 2019, 05:37:54 PM
Well, 2 more years of almost guaranteed sucking with arguably only 1 real true potential top young talent in the team to truly believe in (Mitch).

Sorry, RJ is not it to me. Y'all can feel that way, but I am nowhere near as excited and feel most are overhyped about him because he played for Duke so everyone knows who he is, but compared to past #3 picks I'd argue his amongst the weakest in potential I can ever recall.

KP was booed at the draft, but I was way more hyped about him than RJ.

Our owner is a totalitarian idiot and management has failed at every turn no matter what way you want to cut it for decades. Yes, Perry is a major improvement, but we cannot escape our past misdeeds, and it's haunting everything about this "franchise," nor does it help Dolan thinks its wise to silence journalists even though they are clearly not fair and balanced.

I 100% supported the KP trade, but it has failed as of now. Hard to not say that. We shall see, but it looks grim for Knick fans now other than the rose tinted glass fans that have stuck around with faith and finding silver linings like I certainly have.

18-19 years and counting of trash results on and off the court. I was not super into signing KD injured as it seems a major risk, but I was beginning to change my mind. Now it is certain that the time we need to wait before we can actually have hope to be that good seems at least 2-3 years away, if we are lucky.

Patience...how long have we been hearing that one again (Chip)? I'm losing mine, but still here...why who knows? lol

As for the future. of the Knicks vs. Nets, this is going to hurt.

No one under 30 cares about the Knicks that much, and why should they?

Brooklyn sure to blow up and arguably surpass the Knicks in the short term as a result of this, even if Barclay's is not the same and the fans are mostly plastic.

Old NYC is dying very fast and this is just another nail in its coffin.

A lot of folks born and raised in BK are Nets fans now, even if they may like the Knicks a little. It's a local thing. That's millions of people, and there are a lot of real NBA fans in BK. Now they have the star power to be the talk of the town.

Knicks fade into oblivion holding onto the past with our old and suburban based fans. Until we are actually good again we won't compete, but there's a new noisy neighbor and they have awakened.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 30, 2019, 05:48:20 PM
I think the KZ trade was a disaster of major proportions.

But with that in place, I'm fine with a patient, rebuild-through-the-draft approach.  I liked last year's reclamation team.  A lot of guys to watch and root for.  And our rook crop -- Knox, Mitch, Trier -- showed significant flashes. 

We have a Top 3 rook to show for it.  Not super-excited about RJ, but he was the #1 college recruit.  He's super young and we have time.

I'd really like to steady our PG slot with Rubio or Pa Bev or Brog.
Add a vet F on a 1 year deal: Ariza, Taj, Gay, DeMarre, Ed Davis, etc.
And/or add a young mid-priced Big: Khem Birch; JaMichael Green.

I can take another interesting, losing season.
And another high draft pick.
I'm a new breed -- a patient Knick fan!
Shortcuts and fancy signings have got us nowhere for decades.
Time to try the blue-collar route.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on June 30, 2019, 05:49:13 PM
lol 1000000000000x

every little thing adds up to this...

signing Hardaway
paying Dallas with Porzingis to ditch Hardaway
throwing Oakman out of the garden
trying to lose as many games as possible
hiring the worst f-ing coach in the leagu
treating vet players capable of helping a team to the conference finals like crap
closing games with guys you pulled out of the D league five minutes earlier
wasting full seasons on the "development" of players you know ain't gonna be around
the owner's "band"
could add 600 things to this list

who the f would really sign on the dotted line here if they weren't a candidate for involuntary committment

***apparently some guy named cook, on a plane so hard to keep track...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on June 30, 2019, 05:53:20 PM
maybe, KL is still coming, right?..did our "meeting" happen yet? sigh..lol..yurp
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on June 30, 2019, 05:58:10 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on June 30, 2019, 05:37:54 PM
Well, 2 more years of almost guaranteed sucking with arguably only 1 real true potential top young talent in the team to truly believe in (Mitch).

Sorry, RJ is not it to me. Y'all can feel that way, but I am nowhere near as excited and feel most are overhyped about him because he played for Duke so everyone knows who he is, but compared to past #3 picks I'd argue his amongst the weakest in potential I can ever recall.

KP was booed at the draft, but I was way more hyped about him than RJ.

Our owner is a totalitarian idiot and management has failed at every turn no matter what way you want to cut it for decades. Yes, Perry is a major improvement, but we cannot escape our past misdeeds, and it's haunting everything about this "franchise," nor does it help Dolan thinks its wise to silence journalists even though they are clearly not fair and balanced.

I 100% supported the KP trade, but it has failed as of now. Hard to not say that. We shall see, but it looks grim for Knick fans now other than the rose tinted glass fans that have stuck around with faith and finding silver linings like I certainly have.

18-19 years and counting of trash results on and off the court. I was not super into signing KD injured as it seems a major risk, but I was beginning to change my mind. Now it is certain that the time we need to wait before we can actually have hope to be that good seems at least 2-3 years away, if we are lucky.

Patience...how long have we been hearing that one again (Chip)? I'm losing mine, but still here...why who knows? lol

As for the future. of the Knicks vs. Nets, this is going to hurt.

No one under 30 cares about the Knicks that much, and why should they?

Brooklyn sure to blow up and arguably surpass the Knicks in the short term as a result of this, even if Barclay's is not the same and the fans are mostly plastic.

Old NYC is dying very fast and this is just another nail in its coffin.

A lot of folks born and raised in BK are Nets fans now, even if they may like the Knicks a little. It's a local thing. That's millions of people, and there are a lot of real NBA fans in BK. Now they have the star power to be the talk of the town.

Knicks fade into oblivion holding onto the past with our old and suburban based fans. Until we are actually good again we won't compete, but there's a new noisy neighbor and they have awakened.

I think you underestimate the Knicks team.  frankie is a unicorn.  RJ is going to be very, very good right out the gate.

Contrary to your opinion, MR is a project - a good one, but a project.  Lots of good, young talent abounds though.  We won't be playing to lose this year.
Title: Ricky Rubio a PHX Sun
Post by: Kam on June 30, 2019, 06:34:56 PM
3 yrs 51 mil.

One less suitor for Brogdon.
Make the offer ya morons.
Title: Brogdon @ 21 mil
Post by: Kam on June 30, 2019, 06:36:18 PM
To Indiana
4 yrs 85 mil
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on June 30, 2019, 06:36:32 PM
Middleton. 178 million.

These numbers are amazing to me.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on June 30, 2019, 06:52:48 PM
Thank you Brooklyn.

---The devastating Achilles tear that knocked Kevin Durant out of the NBA Finals has not hurt his bank account.

The 10-time All-Star and two-time Finals MVP is planning to agree to a four-year, $164 million deal with the Brooklyn Nets, Yahoo Sports’ Chris Haynes reported.---
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on June 30, 2019, 07:06:26 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on June 30, 2019, 05:48:20 PM
I think the KZ trade was a disaster of major proportions.

But with that in place, I'm fine with a patient, rebuild-through-the-draft approach.  I liked last year's reclamation team.  A lot of guys to watch and root for.  And our rook crop -- Knox, Mitch, Trier -- showed significant flashes. 

We have a Top 3 rook to show for it.  Not super-excited about RJ, but he was the #1 college recruit.  He's super young and we have time.

I'd really like to steady our PG slot with Rubio or Pa Bev or Brog.
Add a vet F on a 1 year deal: Ariza, Taj, Gay, DeMarre, Ed Davis, etc.
And/or add a young mid-priced Big: Khem Birch; JaMichael Green.

I can take another interesting, losing season.
And another high draft pick.
I'm a new breed -- a patient Knick fan!
Shortcuts and fancy signings have got us nowhere for decades.
Time to try the blue-collar route.

Is that a sub?

I've been patient And I think a lot more fans are than is stated. Its the owner who.is not.  Always liked the idea of rebuilding since chelu2 used to argue for it. That was 1999, so stop with the arrogant sounding schtick, please.

Btw I'm fine with rebuilding "the right way" and said that as soon as we made the KP trade. The point is that was the backup plan with the trade. I hated what Jax did and think one is well within their right to be annoyed with things.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on June 30, 2019, 07:10:28 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on June 30, 2019, 07:06:26 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on June 30, 2019, 05:48:20 PM
I think the KZ trade was a disaster of major proportions.

But with that in place, I'm fine with a patient, rebuild-through-the-draft approach.  I liked last year's reclamation team.  A lot of guys to watch and root for.  And our rook crop -- Knox, Mitch, Trier -- showed significant flashes. 

We have a Top 3 rook to show for it.  Not super-excited about RJ, but he was the #1 college recruit.  He's super young and we have time.

I'd really like to steady our PG slot with Rubio or Pa Bev or Brog.
Add a vet F on a 1 year deal: Ariza, Taj, Gay, DeMarre, Ed Davis, etc.
And/or add a young mid-priced Big: Khem Birch; JaMichael Green.

I can take another interesting, losing season.
And another high draft pick.
I'm a new breed -- a patient Knick fan!
Shortcuts and fancy signings have got us nowhere for decades.
Time to try the blue-collar route.

Is that a sub?

I've been patient And I think a lot more fans are than is stated. Its the owner who.is not.  Always liked the idea of rebuilding since chelu2 used to argue for it. That was 1999, so stop with your trip  arrogant sounding schtick, please.

Btw I'm fine with rebuilding "the right way" and said that as soon as we made the KP trade. The point is that was the backup plan with the trade. I hated what Jax did and think one is well within their right to be annoyed with things.

The man has the right to be a little arrogant (although I'm not quite sure how you read that into his words). He's been saying for months that Brooklyn makes a hell of a lot more sense for KD (and others).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on June 30, 2019, 07:50:55 PM
well gosh..what a surprise, we decided to do some"shoe shopping" ;)
Title: Julius Randle a Knick
Post by: Kam on June 30, 2019, 07:53:23 PM
3 for 63
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on June 30, 2019, 09:17:03 PM
they're f'in kidding me right? 10 more on Taj Mahal? we shopping all kindsa shoes..loafers, sandles, crocs...this some kinda fever dream.


***maybe it's just the internet on this plane..gotta be..gotta be...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on June 30, 2019, 09:21:59 PM
gotta be a KL or JB coming right?...otherwise this is way too surreal

**oops..JB gone

***landing in LA jn an hour, if i gotta find out there that KL....oh jeez

**** we had to put out a "statement" on our failure..perhaps a new alltime low
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on June 30, 2019, 09:26:49 PM
Fucking Pat Riley again.
Title: DeAndre Jordan to NETS
Post by: Kam on June 30, 2019, 10:05:12 PM
KD and KYRIE taking less to make room for DeAndre

Deandre getting $10mil per
Title: Jimmy Butler
Post by: Kam on June 30, 2019, 10:31:29 PM
To Miami
Title: Al horford
Post by: Kam on June 30, 2019, 10:34:29 PM
A 76er for Four years 109 mil
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 30, 2019, 11:15:30 PM
I’m happy with our PF rotation so far. Julius & Taj bring a nice mix of skills. I don’t think we went over market on either guy in terms of dollars or years.

40 mil left, and we most likely won’t spend it all in one place.

Mitch
Randle Taj
Knox Ignas
Barrett Dotson Frank
DJS Trier Allen
Title: Hezonja to Portland
Post by: Kam on June 30, 2019, 11:16:52 PM
Meh.
Title: Re: Hezonja to Portland
Post by: FWK00 on June 30, 2019, 11:29:29 PM
Quote from: Kam on June 30, 2019, 11:16:52 PM
Meh.

Our FA period got that much better!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on June 30, 2019, 11:35:11 PM
The reason the front office is on the West Coast is to take advantage of the longer working day PST affords - smart.
Title: Re: DeAndre Jordan to NETS
Post by: carlos123 on June 30, 2019, 11:38:27 PM
Quote from: Kam on June 30, 2019, 10:05:12 PM
KD and KYRIE taking less to make room for DeAndre

Deandre getting $10mil per

Who said here DeAndre didn’t mind the DNPs issued by our SMARMY PHONY “coach”?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 30, 2019, 11:38:49 PM
JULIUS!!!
Title: Taj Gibson a Knick
Post by: Kam on June 30, 2019, 11:39:23 PM
2 yrs 20 mil
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 01, 2019, 12:06:21 AM
Taj is a super good mentor for Knox, Mitch, and Julius.

And now Bobby Portis, for 15 mil. 25 left

Mitch Portis
Randle Taj
Knox Frank Ignas
Barrett Dotson Trier
DJS Allen
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on July 01, 2019, 12:30:46 AM
our summer...50 MILLION $$$ IN SECOND TIER POWER FORWARDS....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on July 01, 2019, 12:32:07 AM
you really can't makes this shit up
Title: Sad day in Knicks land.
Post by: Kam on July 01, 2019, 12:35:44 AM
Even the front office had to issue a statement to talk the fans off the ledge:

Quote
“While we understand that some Knicks fans could be disappointed with tonight’s news, we continue to be upbeat and confident in our plans to rebuild the Knicks to compete for championships in the future, through the draft, targeted free agents and continuing to build around our core of young players,”
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on July 01, 2019, 12:40:15 AM
next up...truck robinson for the vet minimum and the ghost of Pat Cummings for the mid-level
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on July 01, 2019, 12:44:12 AM
I'm happy with the years for Randle and Portis, but signing both is silly. At least they ought to have trade value.

Knicks are going to be bad for the next two seasons, minimum.
Title: ALL 2ND TIER POWER FORWARDS ALL THE TIME
Post by: lesterluv on July 01, 2019, 12:57:36 AM
nobody, nobody, could make this shit up...


**** somebody take away that checkbook quick, I bet there's a 4th out there we can blow another 14 million on....
Title: Big Snacks
Post by: carlos123 on July 01, 2019, 01:21:22 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on July 01, 2019, 12:40:15 AM
next up...truck robinson for the vet minimum and the ghost of Pat Cummings for the mid-level

Hey Les, you forgot Jerome 🤣
Title: WTF knicks
Post by: Kam on July 01, 2019, 01:22:15 AM

The Knicks entered free agency with approximately $70 million in cap space. With the three signings thus far, they have around $23 million remaining in cap room.


enough for Brogdon if we wanted him!!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on July 01, 2019, 01:26:57 AM
WRONG! Los is completely correct. We need at least 12 mil of that for the Junkyard Dog ....

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 01, 2019, 01:32:25 AM
We had no frontcourt other than Mitch & Knox. Knox doesn’t even count as he is still wafer thin.

All three signings are productive inside/outside guys, the kind of bigs you need to make space for both Mitch and our drivers at guard and wing. If you don’t have a rotation of big men available, every night can get ugly.

I like our day 1 better than Brooklyn’s.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on July 01, 2019, 01:32:43 AM
Well, Pacers gave up a first rounder and two second rounders for Brogdon.


If the Knicks hand't signed Portis, but had agreed to the Iguodala salary dump with slightly better terms than the Grizzlies did (say, the Knicks sent Dotson the other way? Or a second rounder or two?), then this off-season would have looked good. A bad team, yes, but better than last year, a two-year look at a genuinely interesting Julius Randle, a very juicy first rounder, auctioning off Iguodala over the course of the year for more picks, and the cap space to acquire another pick. That would have been a B+ off-season following the D- actual season.

Instead, Randle and Portis make each other worse, and the Knicks will still be bad. I'll give it a C+ right now. The media will make it out to be worse, but that's a question of expectations, not of what has actually been done. The Knicks are focussing on two year deals, and having that extra year to play with is better, less short-sighted.


If not for Dolan, I think Durant and Kyrie might have come. Tough to say, but has to have been a factor.


I think the Porzingis trade has not worked out but still made sense. He wanted out, the risk was too great.

The real problem was not trading him, and definitely not the return for him (which was pretty good). It's what drove him to want to leave in the first place.


Knicks can have Goran Dragic right now, without giving up anything. I'd let him go to the Lakers, were I the Knicks. Or the Knicks can rent out their cap space for an unprotected Miami 2023 pick. That would be good.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on July 01, 2019, 01:41:47 AM
"Durant and Kyrie Irving planned on being teammates. Durant wanted them to join the Knicks together while Irving preferred they take over Brooklyn. They are now both Nets."
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on July 01, 2019, 01:48:08 AM
BoD gets a big "I told ya so" for the Nets getting Durant (although it appears the Knicks were awfully close).

I'm taking a much smaller "I told ya so" for saying loudly stretching Noah was a bad idea.

Kiid will get his when Mudiay and Jimmer jump in the free agency madness.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 01, 2019, 01:53:34 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on July 01, 2019, 01:26:57 AM
WRONG! Los is completely correct. We need at least 12 mil of that for the Junkyard Dog ....

We’re projected to have 27.4 mil left to play with. Enough for Big Snacks, JYD, with money left over for Steve Novak. Don’t forget, we need shooting. 
Title: Bo was right
Post by: Kam on July 01, 2019, 02:04:56 AM
I will  fulfill the promise i made to walk to Barclays center if KD signs with the Nets.
Title: The Squad
Post by: Kam on July 01, 2019, 02:08:51 AM
Portis  /Robinson
Randle / Gibson
Knox  / Ignas
Barrett  / Dotson / Trier
DSJ / Ntilikina

Title: Re: KD to the Nyets
Post by: Kam on July 01, 2019, 02:38:42 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on July 01, 2019, 01:41:47 AM
"Durant and Kyrie Irving planned on being teammates. Durant wanted them to join the Knicks together while Irving preferred they take over Brooklyn. They are now both Nets."


Quote from: Kam on June 30, 2019, 05:01:21 PM
Kyrie brainwashed him


FU Kyrie
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on July 01, 2019, 02:38:53 AM
This the first time knix turned down a max FA no matter how old or injured? D has maybe finally outgrown his impetuous youth phase.
Title: Wow man
Post by: Kam on July 01, 2019, 02:43:11 AM
Massive fail.

Shit.

I Traded KP.

Gonna get fired.


Definitely gotta issue a statement.


Yo dudes


We fucked up yo.


SOrry.


-Knicks FO
Title: Re: The Squad
Post by: facilitatorn on July 01, 2019, 02:48:51 AM
Quote from: Kam on July 01, 2019, 02:08:51 AM
Portis  /Robinson
Randle / Gibson
Knox  / Ignas
Barrett  / Dotson / Trier
DSJ / Ntilikina

Where we gonna play Reggie Bullock? 2yr 21 mil

May I suggest

Portis Mitch
Randle Gibson
Knox Bullock Ignas
Barrett Dotson Trier
DJS Frank

I’d still like to bring back Kornet. That leaves slots for more chips with our 17 mil. If we don’t have a deal we like, I’m good with Allen and taking the best guy out of camp. It preserves about 13 mil in cap space for in season deals or space toward next summer.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on July 01, 2019, 03:01:36 AM

Mike Vorkunov
✔
@MikeVorkunov

Knicks' updated depth chart now:

PG: Dennis Smith Jr., Kadeem Allen (2-way)
Wings: RJ Barrett, Kevin Knox, Reggie Bullock, Allonzo Trier, Damyean Dotson, Frank Ntilikina, Ignas Brazdeikis, Kris Wilkes (2-way)
Bigs: Mitchell Robinson, Julius Randle, Bobby Portis, Taj Gibson
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 01, 2019, 03:22:28 AM
If we want to unclump it further

PG: DJS, Allen
PG/SG: Frank, Trier
SG: Barrett, Dotson
SG/SF: Bullock, Wilkes
SF: Knox, Ignas
PF: Taj
PF/C: Randle, Portis
C: Robinson
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on July 01, 2019, 03:27:37 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 01, 2019, 03:22:28 AM
If we want to unclump it further

PG: DJS, Allen
PG/SG: Frank, Trier
SG: Barrett, Dotson
SG/SF: Bullock, Wilkes
SF: Knox, Ignas
PF: Taj
PF/C: Randle, Portis
C: Robinson

Team needs: point guard, small forward
Title: Knicks haul
Post by: Kam on July 01, 2019, 03:35:23 AM
Tier A:
Tier B:
Tier C: Randle
Tier D: Portis
Tier E: Bullock
Tier F: Gibson
Tier G:
Tier H:
Title: Knicks off-season
Post by: Kam on July 01, 2019, 03:37:23 AM
Tier A:
Tier B: RJ Barrett
Tier C: Randle
Tier D: Portis
Tier E: Bullock, Bradzeikas
Tier F: Gibson
Tier G:
Tier H: Wilkes
Title: Phil Jackson / Mills/Perry era
Post by: Kam on July 01, 2019, 03:39:25 AM
Set the team back... what... 5 years?

Or is it all Dolans fault?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 01, 2019, 04:38:00 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on June 30, 2019, 11:38:27 PM
Who said here DeAndre didn’t mind the DNPs issued by our SMARMY PHONY “coach”?

Uh, DeAndretheGiant himself said so.
And just yesterday, DeAndre said he liked his time in NY, thought Fiz was a very good coach, likes the yute movement NYK is undergoing.  And he again repeated that the DNP's were weird, but it was a mutual decision and he agreed to it.

His options: mentor some pups on another crappy Knick team OR compete for the East title on a stacked Nets team with Kyrie and Durant . . .

Quote from: facilitatorn on July 01, 2019, 01:32:25 AM
We had no frontcourt other than Mitch & Knox. Knox doesn’t even count as he is still wafer thin.

Knox isn't thin.  Good frame.  He can fill out more and I assume he'll be more muscled as a 20 year old after an off-season of workouts.  Knox main issue of defense is awareness and reaction.  Not body.

Quote
All three signings are productive inside/outside guys, the kind of bigs you need to make space for both Mitch and our drivers at guard and wing. If you don’t have a rotation of big men available, every night can get ugly.

So Randle did shoot nearly 200 3's and made 34% last year.
His first year shooting 3's.  Not bad.
When I saw NOPe, he was mostly a freight train, running through and over folks.
Terrifying on the break.  Prone to commit charges. 

I don't recall his 3's.  But more than 1/6th of his shots were 3's.  Expanding his game.  Just 24. 
Will be interesting to see his progress.
Still strikes me as a player not easy to build around.
And mostly a paint clogger.
But I didn't realize he stretched his game . . .
Mostly his range extends to 10 feet. 

There will be limited driving lanes when Mitch and Randle play together.  Negating R&B's nascent game.  Expect Knox to be shooting 3's then as well.  Unless we really let Randle become an outside shooter.  Could work.

Taj has taken 101 3's in his 10 year career.  but is trying to add a corner 3.

Quote
I like our day 1 better than Brooklyn’s.

I like your extremely misplaced loyalty . . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 01, 2019, 04:53:06 AM
Does anybody like these Knick signings?

Randle at least young and fairly productive.
Of the type the Knix should be looking for.
But he got awfully pricey.

Can he really space the floor?  An issue since Mitch's range is 5 feet; and our prized rook likes to drive.  So the fit for Randle is questionable.  Ran-dle runs the floor well, so hopefully we push the pace with Jr. Smith.  But a lot hinges on if he can pop the 3 consistently.

Randle isn't much of a defender, can throw up awkward weird shots off post-ups.  Looks like a big overpay for not a great fit.  I also don't think Randle is a C at all.  Taj probably covers backup C duties.  I miss Kornet already.  He played scrappy interior D and has a nice outside shot. 

I would be fine with adding vet Taj (I suggested a 1 year deal for him -- the guy is 34) and a reasonably priced Portis -- a young guy struggling to be a starter.  Not sure if Portis is better than paying half price for Vonleh.  But I'm on board.  Some motor/focus issues for Portishead.  Hopefully he can develop consistency, because some nights he can take over. 

But add Taj and Portis and you skip Randle.

Seems like the only lesson Knix learned is to not give out 4 year deals, and try to stick to 2-yrs.

I need to catch up, but looks like for the same price Knix paid Randle, we could have had Brogdon. 
Why 3 PF's and no PG's?
Brogdon, Portis, Taj would have been a solid FA haul.

Looks like poorly thought-out scramble-mode went into effect.
I picture the post-FA hangover with PerryMills asking Allan Houston how we wound up with 3 new PF's.

I never mind the Bullocks.
He's a not terribly skilled guy who tries hard, makes mistakes, gives a good effort on both ends.  Is he our best 3 point shooter?  Our only one?  he'll look like a solid 2-way player some games and anon-entity others.  At least we added a defender.  I'll take Bullocks over subpar-Mario.  But expect mistakes form Bullocks on both ends. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 01, 2019, 05:09:17 AM
Quote from: Kam on July 01, 2019, 03:27:37 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 01, 2019, 03:22:28 AM
If we want to unclump it further

PG: DJS, Allen
PG/SG: Frank, Trier
SG: Barrett, Dotson
SG/SF: Bullock, Wilkes
SF: Knox, Ignas
PF: Taj
PF/C: Randle, Portis
C: Robinson

Team needs: point guard, small forward

Gee, that's exactly what i said going into Free Agency . . .


Portis can play some SF.  Should challenge Knox for the starting SF role.  or simply take it away from Knox.

Knix will be a better team when we have a legit starting PG running the show.
Rubio, Brogdon, Pa Bev . . .
The final year of Dragic at $19M?
Is he healthy?
A mentor for Jr Smith . . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 01, 2019, 05:52:46 AM
So if we still had KZ, would it have been possible to excise Hardaway Jr and Courtly and take on Kyrie and Durant?
Cause my guess if we had KZ and the available cap space, we could have had Kyrie and KD . . .    Think about that!

KZ just signed 5/$158M with DAL.
For that haul, he likely could have been persuaded to be happy in NYC.

Around the NBA:

Utah added Mike Conley, Bojan Bogdanovic and Ed Davis.
Nicely done.
Conley - Mitchell - Bog - Favors (?) - Gobert
Exum   -  _____ - Ingles - Davis - Udoh (?)

Okay so they still need backup G's.
And have to hope Conley's body parts stay together.
But that's a real potent starting 5.
A good mix of shooting and D.  Yute and vets.
There should be some decent G's to fill out the roster with.

Robin Lopez joining Brook in MIL.
Losing The Frog will hurt them, but Greek-Middleguy-Lopez-Bled is potent.
Who starts at SG?  Connaughton is tough-minded. 

A young Rozier for less than half the cost of Kemba.
CHA had to roll the dice.  Rozier is expensive, but a 3 year deal to see what he can become.

GS ditched Iggy (and a 1st rounder) to add a pricey Tangelo.
Guess they had to take a chance with Klay out , KD leaving, and Iggy aging.
Tough.  Tangelo an interesting gamble.  Pricey, but he has ability and they have a system.  Really good op for Tangelo to expand his game.  Interesting

PHI: kept Tobias, lost Butler, added Horford (4 years and he's 33!) and nabbed Josh Rich.  Overall a good job.  But who takes the last shot?  Tobias, Josh, Embiid.
They also lost Redick, but Josh is a young two-way guy I really like.
Interesting.  Get Al's vet leadership.  get better defense swapping JRich and Redick.  I'm in ....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on July 01, 2019, 08:14:13 AM
Quote from: FWK00 on June 30, 2019, 05:58:10 PM

I think you underestimate the Knicks team.  frankie is a unicorn.  RJ is going to be very, very good right out the gate.

Contrary to your opinion, MR is a project - a good one, but a project.  Lots of good, young talent abounds though.  We won't be playing to lose this year.

Frankie a unicorn? FWK, bro, At least half of our fanbase thinks the total opposite. I'm not sold at all btw, but hope I'm wrong.

As for Mitch, I don't think he's a top talent now, but has the most potential to become one of all of our young players. More so than RJ if you ask me.

You sure we won't be playing to lose? You see who we've signed? Maybe we get 10 or 15 more wins.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on July 01, 2019, 08:23:29 AM
Quote from: Kam on July 01, 2019, 03:27:37 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 01, 2019, 03:22:28 AM
If we want to unclump it further

PG: DJS, Allen
PG/SG: Frank, Trier
SG: Barrett, Dotson
SG/SF: Bullock, Wilkes
SF: Knox, Ignas
PF: Taj
PF/C: Randle, Portis
C: Robinson

Team needs: point guard, small forward

Don't worry, Kam. We've got Mudiay awaiting.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on July 01, 2019, 08:53:01 AM
so where you guys sitting shiva?

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on July 01, 2019, 09:08:48 AM
not crazy about Horford with the 76ers, (one of my sports hate teams) but 4/109 was a lot more than the Celts were willing to go.

At first glance the onstruction seems out of the '80s with a very dominant low-postish type game.

Could be tough to defend or penetrate.

IMO they'll miss Butler and Reddick 3-game.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on July 01, 2019, 09:26:22 AM
Btw, we don't know if KD had not gotten hurt would that have changed things.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on July 01, 2019, 09:43:10 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on July 01, 2019, 01:32:43 AM
I think the Porzingis trade has not worked out but still made sense. He wanted out, the risk was too great.

The real problem was not trading him, and definitely not the return for him (which was pretty good). It's what drove him to want to leave in the first place.

The thing about Porzingis. Maybe he's an asshole, but he wasn't some kind of natural disaster, some bad thing that just happened to the Knicks. The question was always what did the Knicks do or not do to lead to his massive disaffection. If I'm one of the guys running this team, it's on me if our most wildly valued asset want to walk. That's what smarts, wisdom, calculation is all about. They fucked up. In another business, that would likely lead to losing your job.

Talking about KP leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Sort of like the last 24 hours of free agency signings.

I do like Randle. He's impressive. And at least he has the capacity, the potential to surprise us. Not sure you can say that about any of the other pickups who, I presume, play some necessary role.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 01, 2019, 11:59:20 AM
With Ellington on board, we have about 10 mil left, or a bit more than the MLE.

Portis Mitch
Randle Gibson
Knox Bullock Ignas
Barrett Dotson Ellington
DJS Trier Frank

I think we need another big. Vonleh and Kornet are two of the better guys still on the market.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on July 01, 2019, 12:19:08 PM
Can someone explain the Ellington pick up?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 01, 2019, 12:29:44 PM
Zach Lowe loves to overrate Durant.  Keeps pushing this idea that KD was on pace to be a Top 10 all-time player.
I'll take Wilt, Russ, Kareem in there.
Jordan, Magic, Bird
LeBJ, Oscar.

Only two spots left.
Duncan, Olajuwon probably.

Durant has been a terrific scorer.  But was a late-game bungler for OKC.  Couldn't win enough with Westbrook.  Didn't play D until he got to GS.  Carpet-bagged two titles, joining a dynasty in progress.

Next 10:
After that, I'd take Kobe and Shaq over Durant.  And Jerry West.  Definitely Dr. J if you count his ABA exploits (over 30K in points then).
Probably Garnett, Karl Malone, maybe Moses.  Was Durant better than Wade?  Pippen?

That's 19.  So Durant might have been able to get into my Top 20 if he didn't get injured . . . And Elgin Baylor, Havlicek, David Robinson might have something to say about that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 01, 2019, 12:31:57 PM
Quote from: elephant on July 01, 2019, 12:19:08 PM
Can someone explain the Ellington pick up?

We wanted to get the closest we could to the same exact player as Bullocks?

I'm guessing we want a vet presence at SG, since our PG's are so young, and Trier is error-prone and yuteful.  And R&B a pup.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 01, 2019, 12:44:05 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 01, 2019, 12:31:57 PM
Quote from: elephant on July 01, 2019, 12:19:08 PM
Can someone explain the Ellington pick up?

We wanted to get the closest we could to the same exact player as Bullocks?

I'm guessing we want a vet presence at SG, since our PG's are so young, and Trier is error-prone and yuteful.  And R&B a pup.

DJS, Trier, Barrett, Knox, and Randle are drive first guys who thrive by attacking the lane.

Ellington, Bullock, Dotson, and Portis spread the floor and create room for drivers.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on July 01, 2019, 01:36:09 PM
Quote from: elephant on July 01, 2019, 09:43:10 AM

The thing about Porzingis. Maybe he's an asshole, but he wasn't some kind of natural disaster, some bad thing that just happened to the Knicks. The question was always what did the Knicks do or not do to lead to his massive disaffection. If I'm one of the guys running this team, it's on me if our most wildly valued asset want to walk. That's what smarts, wisdom, calculation is all about. They fucked up. In another business, that would likely lead to losing your job.

Talking about KP leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Sort of like the last 24 hours of free agency signings.

I do like Randle. He's impressive. And at least he has the capacity, the potential to surprise us. Not sure you can say that about any of the other pickups who, I presume, play some necessary role.

lol, Mills & Perry & Fiz deserve to be drawn, quartered, burnt at stake, add in disemboweled first for Dolan. It's not even amateur hour, it's like drunk perverted clown freak hour.

Any halfway decent management is adding two primo stars to Porzingis this summer. Hard to even conjure up the actual scenario that is occurring in any quantum universe.

Still, that's what it is to be a Knick fan and next year's team will certainly be better watching than last, aluta continua....


*** Now you're chewing on a bone when it shoulda been steak...who was that? Kane or Shan?
Title: Re: Hezonja to Portland
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 01, 2019, 02:04:37 PM
Quote from: Kam on June 30, 2019, 11:16:52 PM
Meh.

6th man of the year

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 01, 2019, 02:07:31 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on July 01, 2019, 12:30:46 AM
our summer...50 MILLION $$$ IN SECOND TIER POWER FORWARDS....

Please speak in per year terms
Title: Re: WTF knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 01, 2019, 02:09:18 PM
Quote from: Kam on July 01, 2019, 01:22:15 AM

The Knicks entered free agency with approximately $70 million in cap space. With the three signings thus far, they have around $23 million remaining in cap room.


enough for Brogdon if we wanted him!!!!

Fucking stop

2-way street.
Title: Re: Wow man
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 01, 2019, 02:14:47 PM
Quote from: Kam on July 01, 2019, 02:43:11 AM
Massive fail.

Shit.

I Traded KP.

Gonna get fired.


Definitely gotta issue a statement.


Yo dudes


We fucked up yo.


SOrry.


-Knicks FO

Randle's better than Porzingis
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 01, 2019, 02:16:36 PM
Quote from: Kam on July 01, 2019, 03:27:37 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 01, 2019, 03:22:28 AM
If we want to unclump it further

PG: DJS, Allen
PG/SG: Frank, Trier
SG: Barrett, Dotson
SG/SF: Bullock, Wilkes
SF: Knox, Ignas
PF: Taj
PF/C: Randle, Portis
C: Robinson

Team needs: point guard, small forward

There are no minutes for a PG if you want to play Trier.

And FIZZ WANTS TO PLAY TRIER
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on July 01, 2019, 02:18:46 PM
Let's go back to the videotape... (no idea if I posted this here)

Called that he'd get around $5m a year:

https://twitter.com/IanBegley/status/1145758108163162113

Quote
Enes Kanter is finalizing two-year deal with the Celtics worth $10 million, league sources tell SNY. Player option in Year 2.

Guess I have a right to be arrogant too then ;)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 01, 2019, 02:20:20 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 01, 2019, 12:29:44 PM
Zach Lowe loves to overrate Durant.  Keeps pushing this idea that KD was on pace to be a Top 10 all-time player.
I'll take Wilt, Russ, Kareem in there.
Jordan, Magic, Bird
LeBJ, Oscar.

Only two spots left.
Duncan, Olajuwon probably.

Durant has been a terrific scorer.  But was a late-game bungler for OKC.  Couldn't win enough with Westbrook.  Didn't play D until he got to GS.  Carpet-bagged two titles, joining a dynasty in progress.

Next 10:
After that, I'd take Kobe and Shaq over Durant.  And Jerry West.  Definitely Dr. J if you count his ABA exploits (over 30K in points then).
Probably Garnett, Karl Malone, maybe Moses.  Was Durant better than Wade?  Pippen?

That's 19.  So Durant might have been able to get into my Top 20 if he didn't get injured . . . And Elgin Baylor, Havlicek, David Robinson might have something to say about that.

Why Russell and Kareem over Durant?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on July 01, 2019, 02:26:42 PM
Writing on the wall for Frankie?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on July 01, 2019, 02:27:26 PM
2 more years of rumours...

"All in for 2010..."
"All in for 2019..."
"All in for 2021..."
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 01, 2019, 02:28:13 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on July 01, 2019, 02:18:46 PM
Let's go back to the videotape... (no idea if I posted this here)

Called that he'd get around $5m a year:

https://twitter.com/IanBegley/status/1145758108163162113

Quote
Enes Kanter is finalizing two-year deal with the Celtics worth $10 million, league sources tell SNY. Player option in Year 2.

Guess I have a right to be arrogant too then ;)

hahaaaaaaa

Kemba to Enes - yep
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on July 01, 2019, 02:28:30 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 01, 2019, 02:07:31 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on July 01, 2019, 12:30:46 AM
our summer...50 MILLION $$$ IN SECOND TIER POWER FORWARDS....

Please speak in per year terms

lol..that IS per year actually, rounded ..

* who was it who called PF the least important position in basketball today? Bo? Yeah, prob...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 01, 2019, 02:31:59 PM
Quote from: elephant on July 01, 2019, 12:19:08 PM
Can someone explain the Ellington pick up?

We got Ellington?  I'd say getting to 15 players is the reason

Former bigtime forum whipping boy - could KCP be far behind?

heh

Has shot it well of late.

41/38/85 for career
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on July 01, 2019, 02:34:20 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 01, 2019, 02:28:13 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on July 01, 2019, 02:18:46 PM
Let's go back to the videotape... (no idea if I posted this here)

Called that he'd get around $5m a year:

https://twitter.com/IanBegley/status/1145758108163162113

Quote
Enes Kanter is finalizing two-year deal with the Celtics worth $10 million, league sources tell SNY. Player option in Year 2.

Guess I have a right to be arrogant too then ;)

hahaaaaaaa

Kemba to Enes - yep

So Mr. No Place In The Modern game goes from saving season of w. conference finalist to e. conference contender, gotta give Ike credit for even having the balls to mention his man.


*ADDENDUM A: actually, let's leave extirpated, thousandXcooked, dessicated horses in their graves

*I like what Celts, Philly, Nets have all done, a lot. Let's see where Raptors are at. Seen a heck of a lot of KaWhy Not? billboards off the highway here in SoCal

*Like I say, per the BELOW post, see addendum A ABOVE. His hundred thousand posts blooming flowers about the man were about place in game, not contract size...best off leaving that segment of your commentating career dead, prez.

*Lol, lol, really is killing me tho'...using a DOLAN-SIGNED CONTRACT as  evidence for...what?... If prez didn't exist we would have to invent him too.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on July 01, 2019, 02:44:01 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on July 01, 2019, 02:34:20 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 01, 2019, 02:28:13 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on July 01, 2019, 02:18:46 PM
Let's go back to the videotape... (no idea if I posted this here)

Called that he'd get around $5m a year:

https://twitter.com/IanBegley/status/1145758108163162113

Quote
Enes Kanter is finalizing two-year deal with the Celtics worth $10 million, league sources tell SNY. Player option in Year 2.

Guess I have a right to be arrogant too then ;)

hahaaaaaaa

Kemba to Enes - yep

So Mr. No Place In The Modern game goes from saving season of w. conference finalist to e. conference contender, gotta give Ike credit for even having the balls to mention his man.


*actually, let's leave extirpated, thousandXcooked, dessicated horses in their graves

Yet, a 33 year old Taj Gibson gets 5m more a year than him. Hmmm.... :)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 01, 2019, 03:16:55 PM
You preferred Kanter?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 01, 2019, 03:20:09 PM
My bad on the PG thing

I see we added Payton.  Cool.

Fiz likes Allen.  Should be interesting.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on July 01, 2019, 03:25:36 PM
So the Turkish Terror to Boston.

Not my first choice, but the buffet is kind of picked over today.

He can board and give 6 fouls in the low-post
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 01, 2019, 04:23:02 PM
We have just enough money and space left for a tall plate of Chop Suey.

As is

Mitch Portis
Randle Taj Ignas
Knox Bullock Frank
Barrett Dotson Ellington
Payton DJS Trier

Training camp will have fun positional battles, especially at PG and C. PF looks to be the most locked in.

D’Andre Jordan will be the most missed of the guys we had last year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on July 01, 2019, 04:26:15 PM
Knicks may have added too many guys that want time. Some vets I like adding. But this is a 30 win team - did we really need all of these guys, who will take minutes away from Ntilikina, Trier, Dotson and Brazdeikas (possibly all their minutes), plus possibly even DSJ and Knox and Mitch.

More troubling, had we not signed Ellington, Portis and Payton, not only would we have had more or less the same playoff seeding (maybe we'd be 13th instead of 11th) with more minutes for the yutes, but that empty cap space would have yielded a first rounder from OKC, or possibly assets from Charlotte.

This was short-sighted. I like most of the players given the circumstances of nobody better wanting to come. I like that the deals have lots of team options (smart to pay lots of cash in exchange for that flexibility). There's just too many of them.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on July 01, 2019, 04:30:28 PM
Jamal Murray got nearly $200 million. Mudiay is going to get the minimum, presumably. Kiid will still be convinced everyone in the NBA is wrong, and the two players are of equal value.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on July 01, 2019, 04:32:39 PM
And agree with Bo that Vonleh at half the price of Portis (or less than half) would have made more sense.

Similarly, Looney at $20 over two would have more sense.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 01, 2019, 04:52:53 PM
Lots of movement.
Mo Hark and My Leo to MIA for Whiteside.

MIA clears a little extra room to fit Butler and gets two decent role players.

If Dragic can stay healthy:

Dragic - Butler - Winslow - MoHawk - Bam Onthebayou
?? -  Dion/McGruder/Tyler Hero - James Johnson - Olynyk

Rigth now looks like Butler is the backup PG.  Didn't they try Winslow some there last year?
They should pick up a min salary backup PG.  Tim Frazier, De Colo, Larkin . . .  Yikes.
MIA seems to have too many SG's.
That starting lineup can defend ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on July 01, 2019, 05:06:20 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on July 01, 2019, 04:26:15 PM
Knicks may have added too many guys that want time. Some vets I like adding. But this is a 30 win team - did we really need all of these guys, who will take minutes away from Ntilikina, Trier, Dotson and Brazdeikas (possibly all their minutes), plus possibly even DSJ and Knox and Mitch.

More troubling, had we not signed Ellington, Portis and Payton, not only would we have had more or less the same playoff seeding (maybe we'd be 13th instead of 11th) with more minutes for the yutes, but that empty cap space would have yielded a first rounder from OKC, or possibly assets from Charlotte.

This was short-sighted. I like most of the players given the circumstances of nobody better wanting to come. I like that the deals have lots of team options (smart to pay lots of cash in exchange for that flexibility). There's just too many of them.

Agreed. I don't get the plan.

(if there is a plan)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on July 01, 2019, 05:28:25 PM
Quote from: elephant on July 01, 2019, 05:06:20 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on July 01, 2019, 04:26:15 PM
Knicks may have added too many guys that want time. Some vets I like adding. But this is a 30 win team - did we really need all of these guys, who will take minutes away from Ntilikina, Trier, Dotson and Brazdeikas (possibly all their minutes), plus possibly even DSJ and Knox and Mitch.

More troubling, had we not signed Ellington, Portis and Payton, not only would we have had more or less the same playoff seeding (maybe we'd be 13th instead of 11th) with more minutes for the yutes, but that empty cap space would have yielded a first rounder from OKC, or possibly assets from Charlotte.

This was short-sighted. I like most of the players given the circumstances of nobody better wanting to come. I like that the deals have lots of team options (smart to pay lots of cash in exchange for that flexibility). There's just too many of them.

Agreed. I don't get the plan.

(if there is a plan)

Well, they signed players who analytically excel in aspects of the game and a few who actually still have potential.

It looks suspiciously like the baseball Moneyball theory applied to a basketball team.  All of them don't back down so there's that.

OTOH, if Fizz is as dull a coach as he was last year the chemistry of the team may never be realized.  I would have been happier with cap space and playing the kids as a first priority.  If this goes south - the rebuild will quickly falter and we'll look like the remnants of the Layden years.

Hope we aren't just killing time.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 01, 2019, 05:34:43 PM
Everyone but Randle is a potentially ending contract tradeabe in January.

The less exciting of Ellington or Bullock can go on the block.

The same for Portis or Taj.

Payton, DJS, and Frank as well.

Anyone we like we can pick up and possibly eventually extend.

We’re trying to develop our young C, SF, and SG.

These are short term competent guys who can hold their own enough that main the young guys won’t have to compensate for shortcomings at those positions while learning their own.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on July 01, 2019, 05:45:23 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on July 01, 2019, 04:26:15 PM
Knicks may have added too many guys that want time. Some vets I like adding. But this is a 30 win team - did we really need all of these guys, who will take minutes away from Ntilikina, Trier, Dotson and Brazdeikas (possibly all their minutes), plus possibly even DSJ and Knox and Mitch.

More troubling, had we not signed Ellington, Portis and Payton, not only would we have had more or less the same playoff seeding (maybe we'd be 13th instead of 11th) with more minutes for the yutes, but that empty cap space would have yielded a first rounder from OKC, or possibly assets from Charlotte.

This was short-sighted. I like most of the players given the circumstances of nobody better wanting to come. I like that the deals have lots of team options (smart to pay lots of cash in exchange for that flexibility). There's just too many of them.

You'd have to wonder if we're going to trade someone this summer.

However, like facilitatorn said most are reportedly 1 year and team option so someone seems likely to be dealt by the deadline who isn't cutting it or gets the Frank treatment.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on July 01, 2019, 05:46:29 PM
Also, I liked Fiz when we were bringing in stars, but is he the right coach for what's going on?

He loves those reclamation projects I guess, which is rather Isiah-like in some ways interestingly enough.

I can see him being gone after this season quite easily. Not sure what Perry and Mills expect. playoffs? ummm...nah
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on July 01, 2019, 06:02:08 PM
Quote from: elephant on July 01, 2019, 05:06:20 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on July 01, 2019, 04:26:15 PM
Knicks may have added too many guys that want time. Some vets I like adding. But this is a 30 win team - did we really need all of these guys, who will take minutes away from Ntilikina, Trier, Dotson and Brazdeikas (possibly all their minutes), plus possibly even DSJ and Knox and Mitch.

More troubling, had we not signed Ellington, Portis and Payton, not only would we have had more or less the same playoff seeding (maybe we'd be 13th instead of 11th) with more minutes for the yutes, but that empty cap space would have yielded a first rounder from OKC, or possibly assets from Charlotte.

This was short-sighted. I like most of the players given the circumstances of nobody better wanting to come. I like that the deals have lots of team options (smart to pay lots of cash in exchange for that flexibility). There's just too many of them.

Agreed. I don't get the plan.

(if there is a plan)

My sense is the "hard working" vets we signed are there to both teach, push and challenge the youngins for PT to see who survives and proves themselves as worth keeping around or not.

I think they might think they (Gibson?) can teach Randle how to play defense as he's better athletically than Kanter (is that saying much), yet he's clearly no Mitch. He is a better passer, which helps ball movement (a problem last year, IMO). He also turns the ball over at a lower rate (has a + assist/to rate) and his improved 3 point shooting could prove useful (only 1 season though), so this should be an improvement to the team that Fiz will like as we had too many black holes on the team.

Meanwhile we hold out for "the next star that wants to leave" (how many times have you read/heard that statement since AD?) and/or 2021 Free Agency and collect more assets.

At least being slightly better won't necessarily hurt our chances at getting a top pick with the new rules. Wish the draft was this way all those years when Isiah, Walsh and PJax were in charge. We might have actually gotten a top 3 pick in a good draft.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 01, 2019, 06:15:58 PM
That makes a lot of sense, Prez.

If Fiz can do for Payton what he did for Mud, improve his finishing, shooting, and confidence, Payton would actually be pretty good as he can already pass and defend. Payton getting you 13-14 a game, at a 44-45% clip and 33% and up from three would be a pretty nice output and would be an equivalent jump. He gets about 7 dimes on 3-1 AtoT. Smith and Trier go into attack mode against second units. EP is a better model for Frank who can be a better athlete than any guard we’ve had here. Barrett and Bullock can give and take physically at the SG spot. I see Ellington getting high money for low work, but he’s a pro shooter who uses the work to get open to be really dangerous. This is something all our other guards need to learn.

If Knox and Ignas can take the best aspects of Taj and Reggie’s games they have a sturdy path to development.

Aside from Taj, the pack leader, the bigs are young bigs who will battle, some will rise to the top.

It has to start with fitness and defensive schemes, but we have an interesting foundation to compete with.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 01, 2019, 06:24:07 PM
Looks like Ryan Anderson May soon be back on the market.

http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2019/07/heats-jimmy-butler-sign-and-trade-deal-to-include-clippers-blazers.html?fv-home=true&post-id=132321 (http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2019/07/heats-jimmy-butler-sign-and-trade-deal-to-include-clippers-blazers.html?fv-home=true&post-id=132321)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on July 01, 2019, 06:35:48 PM
Meanwhile I guess we should start checking this out already:

https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2019/6/26/18661260/nba-mock-draft-2020-lamelo-ball-cole-anthony-rj-hampton-theo-maledon-deni-avdija
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 01, 2019, 06:52:30 PM
Not yet.

I’m interested in what happens to the last spot though,

DMC
WCS
Salah Mejeri
O’Quinn
Kornet
Nene

Would be my preferences in order.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 01, 2019, 09:10:34 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on July 01, 2019, 04:26:15 PM
Knicks may have added too many guys that want time. Some vets I like adding. But this is a 30 win team - did we really need all of these guys, who will take minutes away from Ntilikina, Trier, Dotson and Brazdeikas (possibly all their minutes), plus possibly even DSJ and Knox and Mitch.

More troubling, had we not signed Ellington, Portis and Payton, not only would we have had more or less the same playoff seeding (maybe we'd be 13th instead of 11th) with more minutes for the yutes, but that empty cap space would have yielded a first rounder from OKC, or possibly assets from Charlotte.

This was short-sighted. I like most of the players given the circumstances of nobody better wanting to come. I like that the deals have lots of team options (smart to pay lots of cash in exchange for that flexibility). There's just too many of them.

Iggy clearly going to D league

Dotson will battle Knox for time at the 3, as well as backing up RJ.

I disagree that Bullock and Ellington need to play.  But good that they are here - we can swing a 2 or 3 for 1 using the young pups if we wish.

Fiz has the horses - and is now on the clock.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 01, 2019, 09:12:22 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on July 01, 2019, 04:32:39 PM
And agree with Bo that Vonleh at half the price of Portis (or less than half) would have made more sense.

Similarly, Looney at $20 over two would have more sense.

Portis does more.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 01, 2019, 09:15:07 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 01, 2019, 06:24:07 PM
Looks like Ryan Anderson May soon be back on the market.

http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2019/07/heats-jimmy-butler-sign-and-trade-deal-to-include-clippers-blazers.html?fv-home=true&post-id=132321 (http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2019/07/heats-jimmy-butler-sign-and-trade-deal-to-include-clippers-blazers.html?fv-home=true&post-id=132321)

Wily Cauly Stein as well?

Count me in.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 01, 2019, 09:22:01 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on July 01, 2019, 06:02:08 PM
Quote from: elephant on July 01, 2019, 05:06:20 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on July 01, 2019, 04:26:15 PM
Knicks may have added too many guys that want time. Some vets I like adding. But this is a 30 win team - did we really need all of these guys, who will take minutes away from Ntilikina, Trier, Dotson and Brazdeikas (possibly all their minutes), plus possibly even DSJ and Knox and Mitch.

More troubling, had we not signed Ellington, Portis and Payton, not only would we have had more or less the same playoff seeding (maybe we'd be 13th instead of 11th) with more minutes for the yutes, but that empty cap space would have yielded a first rounder from OKC, or possibly assets from Charlotte.

This was short-sighted. I like most of the players given the circumstances of nobody better wanting to come. I like that the deals have lots of team options (smart to pay lots of cash in exchange for that flexibility). There's just too many of them.

Agreed. I don't get the plan.

(if there is a plan)

My sense is the "hard working" vets we signed are there to both teach, push and challenge the youngins for PT to see who survives and proves themselves as worth keeping around or not.

I think they might think they (Gibson?) can teach Randle how to play defense as he's better athletically than Kanter (is that saying much), yet he's clearly no Mitch. He is a better passer, which helps ball movement (a problem last year, IMO). He also turns the ball over at a lower rate (has a + assist/to rate) and his improved 3 point shooting could prove useful (only 1 season though), so this should be an improvement to the team that Fiz will like as we had too many black holes on the team.

Meanwhile we hold out for "the next star that wants to leave" (how many times have you read/heard that statement since AD?) and/or 2021 Free Agency and collect more assets.

At least being slightly better won't necessarily hurt our chances at getting a top pick with the new rules. Wish the draft was this way all those years when Isiah, Walsh and PJax were in charge. We might have actually gotten a top 3 pick in a good draft.

I think our 2020 pick falls 10-17
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 01, 2019, 10:00:54 PM
ELLENSON playing Summer League with Knicks
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 01, 2019, 10:58:52 PM
D'angelo gets max.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on July 01, 2019, 11:19:04 PM
Jesus. I guess last season proved an excellent time for Russell to play well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on July 01, 2019, 11:24:36 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on July 01, 2019, 06:02:08 PM

My sense is the "hard working" vets we signed are there to both teach, push and challenge the youngins for PT to see who survives and proves themselves as worth keeping around or not.

I think they might think they (Gibson?) can teach Randle how to play defense as he's better athletically than Kanter (is that saying much), yet he's clearly no Mitch. He is a better passer, which helps ball movement (a problem last year, IMO). He also turns the ball over at a lower rate (has a + assist/to rate) and his improved 3 point shooting could prove useful (only 1 season though), so this should be an improvement to the team that Fiz will like as we had too many black holes on the team.

But look. Regarding this mentoring thing that people bandy about. When was the last time the Knicks developed....anyone?

I mean anyone.

 I know other teams do it. Sometimes with amazing results. But the Knicks?

It looks like one of these hope springs eternal things.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on July 01, 2019, 11:34:11 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 01, 2019, 03:16:55 PM
You preferred Kanter?

Moi?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on July 01, 2019, 11:36:02 PM
Quote from: elephant on July 01, 2019, 11:24:36 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on July 01, 2019, 06:02:08 PM

My sense is the "hard working" vets we signed are there to both teach, push and challenge the youngins for PT to see who survives and proves themselves as worth keeping around or not.

I think they might think they (Gibson?) can teach Randle how to play defense as he's better athletically than Kanter (is that saying much), yet he's clearly no Mitch. He is a better passer, which helps ball movement (a problem last year, IMO). He also turns the ball over at a lower rate (has a + assist/to rate) and his improved 3 point shooting could prove useful (only 1 season though), so this should be an improvement to the team that Fiz will like as we had too many black holes on the team.

But look. Regarding this mentoring thing that people bandy about. When was the last time the Knicks developed....anyone?

I mean anyone.

 I know other teams do it. Sometimes with amazing results. But the Knicks?

It looks like one of these hope springs eternal things.

I'm definitely not saying I think this will happen. Just to be clear.

It's what I suspect the organization thinks.

It could happen, but I'm sure not counting on it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 02, 2019, 12:52:16 AM
Looney 3/$15M to stay in GS.
Seems like a big discount.
I thought he could get up to $10M per.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on July 02, 2019, 01:00:08 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 01, 2019, 05:34:43 PM
Everyone but Randle is a potentially ending contract tradeabe in January.

Those trades, which will happen, may bring back multiple second rounders.

But Clippers used cap space the Knicks easily could have had to obtain Moe Harkless and a first rounder. I'd take that over Payton + Ellington.

Grizzlies used a trade exemption to obtain Iguodala plus a very intriguing Golden State first rounder. I'd definitely take that over Bobby Portis.

Suns had used their cap space to acquire Aron Baynes and a first rounder. Can't blame the Knicks on this one, they were for holding out for two max free agents at the time this deal was consummated, but it's another "coulda been". Similarly, taking TJ Warren would have come with the 32nd pick overall (which itself was flipped for three second rounders, but could have been, say, Bol Bol).

So the Knicks, effectively, could have signed Randle and Bullock and done the above and still saved their room exception:

DSJ/Ntilikina/Kadeem
RJ/Bullock/Trier
Iguodala/Harkless/TJ Warren/Brazdeikas
Randle/Knox
Mitch/Baynes/Bol

Plus extra 1sts from Golden State, Philadelphia, Miami. And you tell Iguodala "Play hard for us, give us a list of five teams and we'll trade you there in January", meaning you might extract value for Iguodala. Or, worst case, you waive him in February. You try to move TJ Warren as well throughout the season for nothing but an expiring.

That team is better on the court than what the Knicks will have if the shooting can be sorted out, plus better positioned in the long term.

Even hitting on one of the above trades would have been nice. Instead we signed a lot of kinda valuable 8th men. Unimaginative way to build a team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 02, 2019, 03:48:25 AM
Imagination got us Starbury, STAT, Melo, and KP.

I’m good with prosaic for a spell.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on July 02, 2019, 11:23:22 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on July 01, 2019, 04:26:15 PM

More troubling, had we not signed Ellington, Portis and Payton, not only would we have had more or less the same playoff seeding (maybe we'd be 13th instead of 11th) with more minutes for the yutes, but that empty cap space would have yielded a first rounder from OKC, or possibly assets from Charlotte.

Since everybody is on their "I told you so" game today.  I'll tell you that: I told you that the Knicks don't operate that way.
Title: Team friendly deals
Post by: Kam on July 02, 2019, 11:45:51 AM
We overpaid for the Gibsons and Ellingtons of the world.  But they have short deals, so we can construct a trade for a dissatisfied star.   That's the only plan i can see.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on July 02, 2019, 11:55:50 AM
Quote from: Kam on July 02, 2019, 11:23:22 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on July 01, 2019, 04:26:15 PM

More troubling, had we not signed Ellington, Portis and Payton, not only would we have had more or less the same playoff seeding (maybe we'd be 13th instead of 11th) with more minutes for the yutes, but that empty cap space would have yielded a first rounder from OKC, or possibly assets from Charlotte.

Since everybody is on their "I told you so" game today.  I'll tell you that: I told you that the Knicks don't operate that way.

Shame. Because the Nets operated that way and acquired Deangelo, Kurucs, and Maza for their efforts. Had they been as myopic as the Knicks, Kyrie and KD would be playing in MSG.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 02, 2019, 03:15:14 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 02, 2019, 12:52:16 AM
Looney 3/$15M to stay in GS.
Seems like a big discount.
I thought he could get up to $10M per.

For what?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on July 02, 2019, 03:47:07 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on July 02, 2019, 11:55:50 AM
Quote from: Kam on July 02, 2019, 11:23:22 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on July 01, 2019, 04:26:15 PM

More troubling, had we not signed Ellington, Portis and Payton, not only would we have had more or less the same playoff seeding (maybe we'd be 13th instead of 11th) with more minutes for the yutes, but that empty cap space would have yielded a first rounder from OKC, or possibly assets from Charlotte.

Since everybody is on their "I told you so" game today.  I'll tell you that: I told you that the Knicks don't operate that way.

Shame. Because the Nets operated that way and acquired Deangelo, Kurucs, and Maza for their efforts. Had they been as myopic as the Knicks, Kyrie and KD would be playing in MSG.

Maybe the Knicks FO will take note of the way Brooklyn set up their team.  But that is doubtful.  $15mil for Bobby Portis is just dumb.  For a starter that's plenty but as a backup C it is just awful.  Who were we bidding against?  And  $10mil for backup PF Taj Gibson also??  Declining Taj.  Can't hit a three.   

Who was gonna pay Ellington and Bullock that much?

What a criminal use of cap space.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 02, 2019, 04:20:06 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 02, 2019, 03:15:14 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 02, 2019, 12:52:16 AM
Looney 3/$15M to stay in GS.
Seems like a big discount.
I thought he could get up to $10M per.

For what?

Average salary is over $9M now.

Looney runs the floor, can set screens and roll, pretty solid boarder, has vet experience at 23, mobile defender.
And you hope he can expand his game when not limited by his role around 4 all-stars.

I thought he'd be in the $8M - $10M range.
Title: Re: Knicks off-season
Post by: Kam on July 02, 2019, 04:35:21 PM
Grade the moves of the FO

A   

RJ Barrett   -  Knicks made the obvious move.  And they didn't mess it up.   That gets them an A.


B+   

Julius Randle -  You can like the player and the contract, but it's hard to give them an A when Randle was Plan B or C


B

Ignas Bradzeikis - Looks like the Knicks invested to move up in the 2nd round on a guy who can stick in the league.  That's great for picking that late.

C+

Bobby Portis  - Earned his deal on the strength of inflated numbers playing on bad teams.  He can only play Center.  No twin towers lineups with Mitch.  Obviously Knicks gonna fuck up Mitch's development.   Why did we need another young C?  Offense/defense platoon the plan for Mitch and Bobby?  How long before Bobby punches Mitch in de face?  Only reason I give it a C+ and not a worse grade is on the murky "potential" of Portis as a player and trade chit.

C

Kris Wilkes and the rest of their summer league signings.  Only because i'm being generous.

F

Everyone else was a waste,  rather have Patrick Beverly than Elfrid Payton, and prefer Robin Lopez to Taj Gibson, and i don't know wtf we were doing announcing signing NBA journeymen like Wayne Ellington, and Reggie Bullock to easy money deals.  There were so many shitty deals to one dimensional players did i miss anybody?


And because the KP trade made this spending $pree possible, and since a lack of talent scared off Kyrie (who has KD on a leash) the overall grade for the Knicks Front Office is:  Z-


 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on July 02, 2019, 04:48:07 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 02, 2019, 04:20:06 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 02, 2019, 03:15:14 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 02, 2019, 12:52:16 AM
Looney 3/$15M to stay in GS.
Seems like a big discount.
I thought he could get up to $10M per.

For what?

Average salary is over $9M now.

Looney runs the floor, can set screens and roll, pretty solid boarder, has vet experience at 23, mobile defender.
And you hope he can expand his game when not limited by his role around 4 all-stars.

I thought he'd be in the $8M - $10M range.

Feels like the best value deal of free agency, at least until Kawhi signs. Looney can ball.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on July 02, 2019, 04:52:05 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on July 02, 2019, 04:48:07 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 02, 2019, 04:20:06 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 02, 2019, 03:15:14 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 02, 2019, 12:52:16 AM
Looney 3/$15M to stay in GS.
Seems like a big discount.
I thought he could get up to $10M per.

For what?

Average salary is over $9M now.

Looney runs the floor, can set screens and roll, pretty solid boarder, has vet experience at 23, mobile defender.
And you hope he can expand his game when not limited by his role around 4 all-stars.

I thought he'd be in the $8M - $10M range.

Feels like the best value deal of free agency, at least until Kawhi signs. Looney can ball.

But he has a broken collarbone so....
Title: M. Brogdon
Post by: Kam on July 02, 2019, 05:08:58 PM
Indiana sent Milwaukee a first round pick in the deal.

Lottery protected through 2025 then unprotected.

Maybe we can get that pick by sending Milwaukee one or two of our surplus backcourt.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on July 02, 2019, 05:30:21 PM
Quote from: Kam on July 02, 2019, 03:47:07 PM
Maybe the Knicks FO will take note of the way Brooklyn set up their team.  But that is doubtful.  $15mil for Bobby Portis is just dumb.  For a starter that's plenty but as a backup C it is just awful.  Who were we bidding against?  And  $10mil for backup PF Taj Gibson also??  Declining Taj.  Can't hit a three.   

Who was gonna pay Ellington and Bullock that much?

What a criminal use of cap space.

This analysis seems as apt as it is brutal.

Knicks like the drunk with cash burning a hole in his pocket.
Title: Warriors get
Post by: Kam on July 02, 2019, 06:03:45 PM
Willie Cauley-Stein and Glen Robinson III
Title: Adam Silver is onto something
Post by: Kam on July 02, 2019, 06:13:29 PM
For sorry franchises like ours, we need something to play for other than the NBA Finals champion.  For us it starts with Summer League.  Let's win Summer League!  Woo hoo!   Summer league.  Summer....   league.
Title: Re: Adam Silver is onto something
Post by: facilitatorn on July 02, 2019, 06:17:07 PM
Quote from: Kam on July 02, 2019, 06:13:29 PM
For sorry franchises like ours, we need something to play for other than the NBA Finals champion.  For us it starts with Summer League.  Let's win Summer League!  Woo hoo!   Summer league.  Summer....   league.

I’m heading out in about a week to catch some of it. Missing the opening night and the first couple of days. It’s always a good time in Vegas
Title: Noah Vonleh signs with TWolves
Post by: Kam on July 02, 2019, 07:18:46 PM
For 1.6mil   

One Taj Gibson = 6 Noah Vonlehs
Title: Re: Noah Vonleh signs with TWolves
Post by: Kam on July 02, 2019, 07:19:55 PM
Quote from: Kam on July 02, 2019, 07:18:46 PM
For 1.6mil   

One Taj Gibson = 6 Noah Vonlehs

WTF are they doing? 

Quote from: elephant on July 02, 2019, 05:30:21 PM

Knicks like the drunk with cash burning a hole in his pocket.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on July 02, 2019, 09:29:22 PM
 Jimmer's on.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 02, 2019, 09:37:45 PM
Mudiay to the Jazz, Kornet to the Bulls.

WCS & GR3 are good pickups by GS.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 02, 2019, 09:45:05 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on July 02, 2019, 01:00:08 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 01, 2019, 05:34:43 PM
Everyone but Randle is a potentially ending contract tradeabe in January.

Those trades, which will happen, may bring back multiple second rounders.

But Clippers used cap space the Knicks easily could have had to obtain Moe Harkless and a first rounder. I'd take that over Payton + Ellington.

Grizzlies used a trade exemption to obtain Iguodala plus a very intriguing Golden State first rounder. I'd definitely take that over Bobby Portis.

Suns had used their cap space to acquire Aron Baynes and a first rounder. Can't blame the Knicks on this one, they were for holding out for two max free agents at the time this deal was consummated, but it's another "coulda been". Similarly, taking TJ Warren would have come with the 32nd pick overall (which itself was flipped for three second rounders, but could have been, say, Bol Bol).

So the Knicks, effectively, could have signed Randle and Bullock and done the above and still saved their room exception:

DSJ/Ntilikina/Kadeem
RJ/Bullock/Trier
Iguodala/Harkless/TJ Warren/Brazdeikas
Randle/Knox
Mitch/Baynes/Bol

Plus extra 1sts from Golden State, Philadelphia, Miami. And you tell Iguodala "Play hard for us, give us a list of five teams and we'll trade you there in January", meaning you might extract value for Iguodala. Or, worst case, you waive him in February. You try to move TJ Warren as well throughout the season for nothing but an expiring.

That team is better on the court than what the Knicks will have if the shooting can be sorted out, plus better positioned in the long term.

Even hitting on one of the above trades would have been nice. Instead we signed a lot of kinda valuable 8th men. Unimaginative way to build a team.

Underrating Portis
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 02, 2019, 09:46:45 PM
Quote from: Kam on July 02, 2019, 03:47:07 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on July 02, 2019, 11:55:50 AM
Quote from: Kam on July 02, 2019, 11:23:22 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on July 01, 2019, 04:26:15 PM

More troubling, had we not signed Ellington, Portis and Payton, not only would we have had more or less the same playoff seeding (maybe we'd be 13th instead of 11th) with more minutes for the yutes, but that empty cap space would have yielded a first rounder from OKC, or possibly assets from Charlotte.

Since everybody is on their "I told you so" game today.  I'll tell you that: I told you that the Knicks don't operate that way.

Shame. Because the Nets operated that way and acquired Deangelo, Kurucs, and Maza for their efforts. Had they been as myopic as the Knicks, Kyrie and KD would be playing in MSG.

Maybe the Knicks FO will take note of the way Brooklyn set up their team.  But that is doubtful.  $15mil for Bobby Portis is just dumb.  For a starter that's plenty but as a backup C it is just awful.  Who were we bidding against?  And  $10mil for backup PF Taj Gibson also??  Declining Taj.  Can't hit a three.   

Who was gonna pay Ellington and Bullock that much?

What a criminal use of cap space.

Nobody is a backup yet, Kamster
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 02, 2019, 09:47:42 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 02, 2019, 04:20:06 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 02, 2019, 03:15:14 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 02, 2019, 12:52:16 AM
Looney 3/$15M to stay in GS.
Seems like a big discount.
I thought he could get up to $10M per.

For what?

Average salary is over $9M now.

Looney runs the floor, can set screens and roll, pretty solid boarder, has vet experience at 23, mobile defender.
And you hope he can expand his game when not limited by his role around 4 all-stars.

I thought he'd be in the $8M - $10M range.

Exactly

A game that needs to be expanded is not worth 3-30.
Title: Re: Noah Vonleh signs with TWolves
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 02, 2019, 09:54:24 PM
Quote from: Kam on July 02, 2019, 07:18:46 PM
For 1.6mil   

One Taj Gibson = 6 Noah Vonlehs

You have to factor in the salary level they are at now.  And the body of work.

YES to Gibson.  WE signed him straight away, with the others - so it was thought out, pondered plenty in advance.  I am sure advanced metrics are good on our bigs acquisitions
Title: Re: Knicks off-season
Post by: FWK00 on July 02, 2019, 11:28:18 PM
Quote from: Kam on July 02, 2019, 04:35:21 PM
Grade the moves of the FO

A   

RJ Barrett   -  Knicks made the obvious move.  And they didn't mess it up.   That gets them an A.


B+   

Julius Randle -  You can like the player and the contract, but it's hard to give them an A when Randle was Plan B or C


B

Ignas Bradzeikis - Looks like the Knicks invested to move up in the 2nd round on a guy who can stick in the league.  That's great for picking that late.

C+

Bobby Portis  - Earned his deal on the strength of inflated numbers playing on bad teams.  He can only play Center.  No twin towers lineups with Mitch.  Obviously Knicks gonna fuck up Mitch's development.   Why did we need another young C?  Offense/defense platoon the plan for Mitch and Bobby?  How long before Bobby punches Mitch in de face?  Only reason I give it a C+ and not a worse grade is on the murky "potential" of Portis as a player and trade chit.

C

Kris Wilkes and the rest of their summer league signings.  Only because i'm being generous.

F

Everyone else was a waste,  rather have Patrick Beverly than Elfrid Payton, and prefer Robin Lopez to Taj Gibson, and i don't know wtf we were doing announcing signing NBA journeymen like Wayne Ellington, and Reggie Bullock to easy money deals.  There were so many shitty deals to one dimensional players did i miss anybody?


And because the KP trade made this spending $pree possible, and since a lack of talent scared off Kyrie (who has KD on a leash) the overall grade for the Knicks Front Office is:  Z-


 

Yes, the Knicks pay well because the media's favorite pinata, James Dolan, generously compensates players - many of whom do little to deserve.

Kyrie was NOT SCARED OFF.  The Knicks didn't think he was a max talent BUT would have paid him had Durant been healthy and insisted the Knicks hold their noses and take him in.  Six months from now when the Nets are choking on Irving's locker room manner and when the realization that Randle will score more points for the Knicks in two years then Durant will in four years - nobody at ESPN will admit what Durant homers and a-holes they've been.

Payton is on the cusp of breaking out based on years of experience.  Good time to take a flyer on him.

Portis was not the problem on bad teams.  He's a limited talent but a talent nonetheless.

Beverly was never coming here - has nothing to do with the Knicks - he likes LA. Period.

Gibson is better at what he does than you think.

This team will win games. January trade deadline trades will dictate whether or not we make the playoffs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on July 02, 2019, 11:30:10 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 02, 2019, 09:45:05 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on July 02, 2019, 01:00:08 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 01, 2019, 05:34:43 PM
Everyone but Randle is a potentially ending contract tradeabe in January.

Those trades, which will happen, may bring back multiple second rounders.

But Clippers used cap space the Knicks easily could have had to obtain Moe Harkless and a first rounder. I'd take that over Payton + Ellington.

Grizzlies used a trade exemption to obtain Iguodala plus a very intriguing Golden State first rounder. I'd definitely take that over Bobby Portis.

Suns had used their cap space to acquire Aron Baynes and a first rounder. Can't blame the Knicks on this one, they were for holding out for two max free agents at the time this deal was consummated, but it's another "coulda been". Similarly, taking TJ Warren would have come with the 32nd pick overall (which itself was flipped for three second rounders, but could have been, say, Bol Bol).

So the Knicks, effectively, could have signed Randle and Bullock and done the above and still saved their room exception:

DSJ/Ntilikina/Kadeem
RJ/Bullock/Trier
Iguodala/Harkless/TJ Warren/Brazdeikas
Randle/Knox
Mitch/Baynes/Bol

Plus extra 1sts from Golden State, Philadelphia, Miami. And you tell Iguodala "Play hard for us, give us a list of five teams and we'll trade you there in January", meaning you might extract value for Iguodala. Or, worst case, you waive him in February. You try to move TJ Warren as well throughout the season for nothing but an expiring.

That team is better on the court than what the Knicks will have if the shooting can be sorted out, plus better positioned in the long term.

Even hitting on one of the above trades would have been nice. Instead we signed a lot of kinda valuable 8th men. Unimaginative way to build a team.

Underrating Portis

I agree. Portis is a load.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on July 03, 2019, 12:07:57 AM
Quote from: FWK00 on July 02, 2019, 11:30:10 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 02, 2019, 09:45:05 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on July 02, 2019, 01:00:08 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 01, 2019, 05:34:43 PM
Everyone but Randle is a potentially ending contract tradeabe in January.

Those trades, which will happen, may bring back multiple second rounders.

But Clippers used cap space the Knicks easily could have had to obtain Moe Harkless and a first rounder. I'd take that over Payton + Ellington.

Grizzlies used a trade exemption to obtain Iguodala plus a very intriguing Golden State first rounder. I'd definitely take that over Bobby Portis.

Suns had used their cap space to acquire Aron Baynes and a first rounder. Can't blame the Knicks on this one, they were for holding out for two max free agents at the time this deal was consummated, but it's another "coulda been". Similarly, taking TJ Warren would have come with the 32nd pick overall (which itself was flipped for three second rounders, but could have been, say, Bol Bol).

So the Knicks, effectively, could have signed Randle and Bullock and done the above and still saved their room exception:

DSJ/Ntilikina/Kadeem
RJ/Bullock/Trier
Iguodala/Harkless/TJ Warren/Brazdeikas
Randle/Knox
Mitch/Baynes/Bol

Plus extra 1sts from Golden State, Philadelphia, Miami. And you tell Iguodala "Play hard for us, give us a list of five teams and we'll trade you there in January", meaning you might extract value for Iguodala. Or, worst case, you waive him in February. You try to move TJ Warren as well throughout the season for nothing but an expiring.

That team is better on the court than what the Knicks will have if the shooting can be sorted out, plus better positioned in the long term.

Even hitting on one of the above trades would have been nice. Instead we signed a lot of kinda valuable 8th men. Unimaginative way to build a team.

Underrating Portis

I agree. Portis is a load.

Portis is a black hole on offense.  With the added bonus of he doesn't defend. 
Title: You know what would be hilarious
Post by: Kam on July 03, 2019, 12:09:02 AM
If the Knicks traded for Kanter.   His contract is great now.  We could nail him to the bench with DNPs as punishment.
Title: Contract Knicks
Post by: Kam on July 03, 2019, 12:30:49 AM
Julius Randle           $21,000,000
Bobby Portis            $15,500,000
Taj Gibson               $10,000,000
Elfrid Payton             $8,000,000
Reggie Bullock          $8,000,000
Wayne Ellington        $8,000,000
RJ Barrett                 $8,000,000
Joakim Noah             $6,431,666   
Frank Ntilikina           $4,855,800   
Dennis Smith             $4,463,640   
Kevin Knox                $4,385,640   
Allonzo Trier              $3,551,100   
Damyean Dotson       $1,618,520   
Mitchell Robinson       $1,559,712
Ignas Bradzeikas       $1,500,000


Probable Starters:

Bobby Portis            $15,500,000
Julius Randle           $21,000,000
Kevin Knox               $4,385,640
RJ Barrett                 $8,000,000
Elfrid Payton             $8,000,000

Depth on the Bench:

Mitchell Robinson       $1,559,712
Taj Gibson               $10,000,000
Reggie Bullock          $8,000,000
Allonzo Trier              $3,551,100
Dennis Smith             $4,463,640   

Misc, fringe, on the bubble, etc:

Wayne Ellington        $8,000,000
Joakim Noah             $6,431,666   
Frank Ntilikina           $4,855,800   
Damyean Dotson       $1,618,520   
Ignas Bradzeikas       $1,500,000
Kadeem Allen            2-way contract
Kris Wilkes                2-way contract
Title: Investing where others aren't
Post by: Kam on July 03, 2019, 01:14:28 AM
We have a team of 2nd teamers

Over $40million invested in the bench


For the record i do want to see this unit play together for the fun of it:

Mitchell Robinson       $1,559,712
Taj Gibson               $10,000,000
Reggie Bullock          $8,000,000
Allonzo Trier              $3,551,100
Dennis Smith             $4,463,640   
Title: I'm starting to suspect
Post by: Kam on July 03, 2019, 01:30:58 AM
The geniuses in charge plan is to trade for CP3 with the ending deals.

Wouldn't be such a bad thing except for the 44mil due in 2021 

That is where my support falls short of making the deal.  No sale.
Title: 33.5 wins
Post by: Kam on July 03, 2019, 01:45:06 AM
My support for Fizdale ends if he cannot win 34 games with this group.
Playoffs should be the goal, but realistically anything higher than 11th place in the East will be a job well done with this roster.


But c'mon.  Fiz was hired in part because guys like DWade and LeBron spoke highly of him.  That was supposed to help us lure big time free agents.  Didn't happen really.   And then he was called a good development coach who could rehabilitate young players' careers.   Welll Mudiay got a one year deal in Utah for like 2.5 mil.  So hurray! 

Realistically if you are a developmental coach then develop your team from 17 to 34 wins.  Otherwise any nameless jackal could get 20-30 wins from this group.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 03, 2019, 01:52:01 AM
I want Boogie & we have the room exception to do it. 1+a team option, like all the other soldiers.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on July 03, 2019, 01:54:10 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 03, 2019, 01:52:01 AM
I want Boogie & we have the room exception to do it. 1+a team option, like all the other soldiers.

Sure, why not?   At this point we are hoping for miracles.  RJ Barrett please be the second coming of MJ.  Thank you.
Title: Re: Contract Knicks
Post by: elephant on July 03, 2019, 02:59:46 AM
Quote from: Kam on July 03, 2019, 12:30:49 AM
Julius Randle           $21,000,000
Bobby Portis            $15,500,000
Taj Gibson               $10,000,000
Elfrid Payton             $8,000,000
Reggie Bullock          $8,000,000
Wayne Ellington        $8,000,000
RJ Barrett                 $8,000,000
Joakim Noah             $6,431,666   
Frank Ntilikina           $4,855,800   
Dennis Smith             $4,463,640   
Kevin Knox                $4,385,640   
Allonzo Trier              $3,551,100   
Damyean Dotson       $1,618,520   
Mitchell Robinson       $1,559,712
Ignas Bradzeikas       $1,500,000


Probable Starters:

Bobby Portis            $15,500,000
Julius Randle           $21,000,000
Kevin Knox               $4,385,640
RJ Barrett                 $8,000,000
Elfrid Payton             $8,000,000

Depth on the Bench:

Mitchell Robinson       $1,559,712
Taj Gibson               $10,000,000
Reggie Bullock          $8,000,000
Allonzo Trier              $3,551,100
Dennis Smith             $4,463,640   

Misc, fringe, on the bubble, etc:

Wayne Ellington        $8,000,000
Joakim Noah             $6,431,666   
Frank Ntilikina           $4,855,800   
Damyean Dotson       $1,618,520   
Ignas Bradzeikas       $1,500,000
Kadeem Allen            2-way contract
Kris Wilkes                2-way contract

Randle starts.

Is anyone else a certainty?

That's the kind of team we've got.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 03, 2019, 04:18:36 AM
I agree completely about Randle being a lock.

We have experienced, technical, intelligent spot-starter level guys in Taj, Bullock, and Ellington. Our young guys have to show they can out produce these guys to earn more than spot minutes themselves, that is on top of the competition between the various youth.

Assuming Randle starts and gets big minutes, here are potential battles

For time at C: Mitch v. Portis v. Taj
For backup PF: Portis v. Knox v. Ignas v. Taj
For time at SF: Knox v. Barrett v. Dotson v. Frank v. Ignas v. Bullock
For time at SG: Barrett v. Dotson v. Trier v. Frank v. Bullock v. Ellington
For time at PG: DJS v. Trier v. Frank v. Barrett v. Payton

It’s up to players to decide the kind of role they want and to put the time in and prove it.

If you have 60 million invested in guys younger and less experienced than Randle, it is a smart move to spend 26 million on your proven yardsticks. We may have another few million to go, or do something to get a big for a guard or wing. Maybe see if Milwaukee will do something for Christian Wood to bolster their backcourt.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 03, 2019, 04:41:23 AM
Teams haphazardly thrown together with lots of new faces and plenty of unproven yute don't usually win much at all.  And guys on essentially one year contracts aren't conducive to team building and buying in. 

Another tough project year for Fizz, with more vet players.  We went from reclamations to post-reclamations -- Bullocks; Payton, Ellington.  They've all established themselves as adequate bench guys, but with sloppiness and funk in their games.  Ellington loves off-balance 3's.  Bullocks crashes around effortfully, is foul prone with erratic shooting.  Needs to limit mistakes.  Payton is a weird player, but we need the PG help.  Scrappers.

I was advocating bringing in a vet F presence.  Taj was was one my targets.  But once you add Randle and Portis, Taj becomes superfluous.  I would have gone for a vet SF -- Ariza, Gay, a likely very cheap DMC. 

I also see Portis as more of a combo F, unless he's really beefed up (and learned to defend).  I like aggressive Portis.  but he needs to focus more and be more court aware.  Been a guy on my radar for a while.  Thought he looked great out of the box early in his rook season.  But something has been holding him back.  Systems?   Motor?   Ten-cent head?

Randle is a solid gamble.  2 years guaranteed.  So the overpay is fine.  But isn't this the wrong role for him?  Like when Tim Jr. was our #1 scoring option.  Need to push the pace to get the full Randle experience.  When he tries to do too much, he crashes into and through people, and throws up ugly shots.  When he stays within himself, he's pretty good.  I think Knix are the wrong team/team construction for him.

Another concern is with all the vet additions, that our yute doesn't get the court time they should.  Easy to see Knox getting lost in the shuffle.  Dotson as well.  Does Frank still have a locker?   

Not sure why we overloaded: 
Randle/Portis + Taj
Bullocks & Ellington
I would have liked to have brought back Vonleh and Kornet.
And added a vet SF like DMC.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 03, 2019, 05:27:18 AM
Portis already beat out Vonleh once when they were on the same roster. Portis is producing more at an earlier stage of his career. No one was really saying that Vonleh had figured it out at all until last year. If we are looking back and saying the same kind of stuff about Portis, we might be glad to have that team option in year two.

If we don’t see a lot of him, it’s because we can’t take Mitch & Randle off the floor and Taj and or Knox look better as well. These would all be good problems to have. The progress he’s made in the last three years indicates to me that however things shake out in training camp, the young man will continue to work hard on improving his game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 03, 2019, 06:01:46 AM
I like taking a flyer on Portis.
Solidish player who can do more, if he focuses.
Has skills.

I was more thinking Vonleh instead of Taj.
Why sign 3 PF's.
Fill the vet F role with DMC, or Gay, or Wil.

Not sure what the point was of developing all those players last year if you're just going to let Kornet, Mud, Vonleh walk.  All were cheap again this year.  I suppose we don't know the locker room and who works hard, etc.  And I'm not sad to end the Mud experiment.  But Vonleh still is young and has potential.  Chop Suey really improved on rim protection.  If he can get his nice looking 3 to drop at a better rate, he could be very useful.  The guy has size and range.  And started to show long-armed D.  Found Kornet a  real easy guy to root for.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 03, 2019, 07:55:22 AM
Quote from: Kam on July 03, 2019, 12:07:57 AM
Quote from: FWK00 on July 02, 2019, 11:30:10 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 02, 2019, 09:45:05 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on July 02, 2019, 01:00:08 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 01, 2019, 05:34:43 PM
Everyone but Randle is a potentially ending contract tradeabe in January.

Those trades, which will happen, may bring back multiple second rounders.

But Clippers used cap space the Knicks easily could have had to obtain Moe Harkless and a first rounder. I'd take that over Payton + Ellington.

Grizzlies used a trade exemption to obtain Iguodala plus a very intriguing Golden State first rounder. I'd definitely take that over Bobby Portis.

Suns had used their cap space to acquire Aron Baynes and a first rounder. Can't blame the Knicks on this one, they were for holding out for two max free agents at the time this deal was consummated, but it's another "coulda been". Similarly, taking TJ Warren would have come with the 32nd pick overall (which itself was flipped for three second rounders, but could have been, say, Bol Bol).

So the Knicks, effectively, could have signed Randle and Bullock and done the above and still saved their room exception:

DSJ/Ntilikina/Kadeem
RJ/Bullock/Trier
Iguodala/Harkless/TJ Warren/Brazdeikas
Randle/Knox
Mitch/Baynes/Bol

Plus extra 1sts from Golden State, Philadelphia, Miami. And you tell Iguodala "Play hard for us, give us a list of five teams and we'll trade you there in January", meaning you might extract value for Iguodala. Or, worst case, you waive him in February. You try to move TJ Warren as well throughout the season for nothing but an expiring.

That team is better on the court than what the Knicks will have if the shooting can be sorted out, plus better positioned in the long term.

Even hitting on one of the above trades would have been nice. Instead we signed a lot of kinda valuable 8th men. Unimaginative way to build a team.

Underrating Portis

I agree. Portis is a load.

Portis is a black hole on offense.  With the added bonus of he doesn't defend.

You meed to stop.
Title: Re: Contract Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 03, 2019, 07:57:40 AM
Quote from: elephant on July 03, 2019, 02:59:46 AM

Randle starts.

Is anyone else a certainty?



yes
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 03, 2019, 08:31:27 AM
No.

I'd start Mitch.
And I'd like to start R&B Jr.
But Mitch still raw and foul prone.
RJ is 19.

I'd start them if they're ready.
But if they have to sit and learn and be 15-20 min backups to start the season, that's fine.
Since we're very likely not a playoff team, I'd like the yute (inc Knox and Jr. Smith) to mostly start, as possible.
Title: Re: Noah Vonleh signs with TWolves
Post by: thebizneverloses on July 03, 2019, 12:18:26 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 02, 2019, 09:54:24 PM
Quote from: Kam on July 02, 2019, 07:18:46 PM
For 1.6mil   

One Taj Gibson = 6 Noah Vonlehs

You have to factor in the salary level they are at now.  And the body of work.

YES to Gibson.  WE signed him straight away, with the others - so it was thought out, pondered plenty in advance.  I am sure advanced metrics are good on our bigs acquisitions

538's analytics say Portis is one of the worst signings of the summer based on his atrocious D.

Let's not get fooled when he scores a few points and grabs a rebounds. Is he playing D? Is he passing the ball? Listen to Kam on this one.
Title: Re: Contract Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on July 03, 2019, 12:19:25 PM
Quote from: elephant on July 03, 2019, 02:59:46 AM
Randle starts.

Is anyone else a certainty?

That's the kind of team we've got.

RJ is a lock to start. I'll be surprised if a healthy DSJ doesn't start on Opening Night.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on July 03, 2019, 12:23:26 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 03, 2019, 04:41:23 AM
Another concern is with all the vet additions, that our yute doesn't get the court time they should.  Easy to see Knox getting lost in the shuffle.  Dotson as well.  Does Frank still have a locker?   

Not sure why we overloaded: 
Randle/Portis + Taj
Bullocks & Ellington
I would have liked to have brought back Vonleh and Kornet.
And added a vet SF like DMC.

Good points all. We differ in that I prefer Taj to Portis - Taj offers more veteran know-how, defending, and passing. A good role model. Can play next to either Mitch or Randle. Portis and Randle can't really share the floor together, and certainly not with Knox. In fact, I don't get what Portis' supposed fit is, he overlaps with a lot of what we have.

Subtract Portis and Payton and Ellington, keep Vonleh, do the Harkless trade, and with the $18 million you have left see if Charlotte gives a lottery protected first to dump Biyombo. Or if OKC gives a lotto-protected first to dump Roberson + Patterson. Had we done that, this summer would have been an A- minus summer. Not that different than what we did, except this time we're not burying the youth in which we invested so much time, and the roster has more balance. Plus those picks would be nice.
Title: DeMarcus Cousins
Post by: Kam on July 03, 2019, 12:26:46 PM
I think he makes the most sense in Houston.  They need to add a guy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on July 03, 2019, 12:27:55 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on July 03, 2019, 12:23:26 PM
Portis and Randle can't really share the floor together, and certainly not with Knox. In fact, I don't get what Portis' supposed fit is, he overlaps with a lot of what we have.


They will play together a lot.  When you make that kind of fiscal commitment to Portis, it's because you want him to start.  We have no other C but Mitch.  If we wanted to gift Mitch the starting nod we would've gone after a 4-5 million signee  for backup Center.  15.5 makes Portis the presumptive starter.

Mitch will have to beat out Portis and DSJ will have to beat out Payton.  That's how it is.  Portis and Payton have a ton of career starts.  They came here to play and play a lot.

Portis makes no sense as a backup on a shit team.  At that point you try to move him. It's really the Enes Kanter situation from last season all over again.  I'm impatient and want Mitch to start.   Perry/Mills are acting like they have all the time in the world; throwing things at the wall to see what sticks.

Desperation reeks.
Title: Trade to make in January
Post by: thebizneverloses on July 03, 2019, 12:35:10 PM
Timberwolves
J. Randle  PF  $20.0M  3 year(s)

B. Portis  PF   $15.1M  2 year(s)

W. Ellington SG  $7.8M  2 year(s)

E. Payton PG $7.8M 2 year(s)

K. Knox  PF  $4.3M 4 year(s)

M. Robinson C $1.5M 3 year(s)

D. Dotson  SG $1.6M 2 year(s)

Round 1 2020 - own pick

Round 1 2021 - via Dallas

Round 1 2022 - own pick



Knicks
A. Wiggins SF $27.5M 4 year(s)

K. Towns C $27.2M 5 year(s)

G. Dieng C $16.2M 2 year(s)

J. Bell C $1.6M
2 year(s)

S. Napier PG $1.8M
1 year(s)

Round 2 2020 - own pick


Obviously try to keep the 2020 pick out of it. Or keep Dieng and Portis out of it. But they're not doing the deal without Mitch or the Dallas pick. Anyhow, this would leave us with DSJ/RJ/Wiggins/Taj/KAT to start, with Frank/IsoZo/Bullock/Bell being key players off the bench. Just a starting PF away from having a young playoff team and an RJ/KAT foundation.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 03, 2019, 01:42:04 PM
I'm not sure what the Portis fit is.
I'm not sure when he became seen as a C either.
You start Randle and Portis and there's no rim protection.
Mitch makes sense next to Randle.  And Randle is the starting PF. 

If you start Jr. Smith and Barrett (my preference), then you have 3 yute in the starting lineup and a vet, either Portis or Bullocks, makes the most sense at SF.  Probably Bull, because he at least puts in defensive effort.  Or Portis if he earns it.

It's not that much we gave Portis and it's a short deal.
I think he's just an interesting player who hasn't reached his potential and the Knix want to see if Fizz can unlock that, or why he hasn't progressed.  We took a flyer on him.

I see him as a tweener -- between starter and bench.  Portis needs to show he's a legit starter.  Also, I can see him playing SF, since the competition is just Knox and Bullocks.  And backing up PF (and possibly C).  Portis can get 20 -25 mins per night if he deserves it.  Bullock really should be a backup and spot starter.

But since we don't want Knox to get lost, maybe Portis does backup F/C.
Title: Re: Knicks off-season
Post by: PrezIke on July 03, 2019, 01:43:06 PM
Quote from: Kam on July 02, 2019, 04:35:21 PM
Grade the moves of the FO

A   

RJ Barrett   -  Knicks made the obvious move.  And they didn't mess it up.   That gets them an A.


B+   

Julius Randle -  You can like the player and the contract, but it's hard to give them an A when Randle was Plan B or C


B

Ignas Bradzeikis - Looks like the Knicks invested to move up in the 2nd round on a guy who can stick in the league.  That's great for picking that late.

C+

Bobby Portis  - Earned his deal on the strength of inflated numbers playing on bad teams.  He can only play Center.  No twin towers lineups with Mitch.  Obviously Knicks gonna fuck up Mitch's development.   Why did we need another young C?  Offense/defense platoon the plan for Mitch and Bobby?  How long before Bobby punches Mitch in de face?  Only reason I give it a C+ and not a worse grade is on the murky "potential" of Portis as a player and trade chit.

C

Kris Wilkes and the rest of their summer league signings.  Only because i'm being generous.

F

Everyone else was a waste,  rather have Patrick Beverly than Elfrid Payton, and prefer Robin Lopez to Taj Gibson, and i don't know wtf we were doing announcing signing NBA journeymen like Wayne Ellington, and Reggie Bullock to easy money deals.  There were so many shitty deals to one dimensional players did i miss anybody?


And because the KP trade made this spending $pree possible, and since a lack of talent scared off Kyrie (who has KD on a leash) the overall grade for the Knicks Front Office is:  Z-


 

AKA a C-
Title: Re: Noah Vonleh signs with TWolves
Post by: PrezIke on July 03, 2019, 01:46:01 PM
Quote from: Kam on July 02, 2019, 07:18:46 PM
For 1.6mil   

One Taj Gibson = 6 Noah Vonlehs

Gibson's deal is bananas, but Vonleh fell off as the season wore on.

We also need some vocal leadership, particularly on defense. A steep price to pay for it though.
Title: Re: I'm starting to suspect
Post by: PrezIke on July 03, 2019, 01:48:33 PM
Quote from: Kam on July 03, 2019, 01:30:58 AM
The geniuses in charge plan is to trade for CP3 with the ending deals.

Wouldn't be such a bad thing except for the 44mil due in 2021 

That is where my support falls short of making the deal.  No sale.

Why on earth would we trade for him?? I know we're desperate, but that desperate?
Title: Re: 33.5 wins
Post by: PrezIke on July 03, 2019, 01:49:32 PM
Quote from: Kam on July 03, 2019, 01:45:06 AM
My support for Fizdale ends if he cannot win 34 games with this group.
Playoffs should be the goal, but realistically anything higher than 11th place in the East will be a job well done with this roster.


But c'mon.  Fiz was hired in part because guys like DWade and LeBron spoke highly of him.  That was supposed to help us lure big time free agents.  Didn't happen really.   And then he was called a good development coach who could rehabilitate young players' careers.   Welll Mudiay got a one year deal in Utah for like 2.5 mil.  So hurray! 

Realistically if you are a developmental coach then develop your team from 17 to 34 wins.  Otherwise any nameless jackal could get 20-30 wins from this group.

I'd take the over that he's gone by next season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on July 03, 2019, 02:02:54 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 03, 2019, 01:42:04 PM
If you start Jr. Smith and Barrett (my preference), then you have 3 yute in the starting lineup and a vet, either Portis or Bullocks, makes the most sense at SF.  Probably Bull, because he at least puts in defensive effort.  Or Portis if he earns it.

I see him as a tweener -- between starter and bench.  Portis needs to show he's a legit starter.  Also, I can see him playing SF, since the competition is just Knox and Bullocks.  And backing up PF (and possibly C).  Portis can get 20 -25 mins per night if he deserves it.  Bullock really should be a backup and spot starter.

But since we don't want Knox to get lost, maybe Portis does backup F/C.

I predict Portis will play less than five minutes at the 3 all season. He's 6'11 and he can't shuffle his feet on the perimeter. There's no chance he plays ahead of Bullocks, Ellington, RJ, Knox and Dotson at the 3. All those guys are better options at that spot.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on July 03, 2019, 02:07:24 PM
One thing that MIGHT help is that Peyton and Randle appear to play well together, at least from highlights.

Curious what the data says...just seeing some on 82games now...

So, for NO their best 5 man unit included Peyton and Randle and 3 of their best 5 man units included Peyton and Randle together.

This may mean little as a big variable is AD was in all of them, and but Holiday was not included in one of those 3.

Peyton also has a negative net rating, but his passing rating stands out (17.3) even higher than Holiday's (15.1) and is more than 6 points higher than our best player, DJS (11.7), which sounds woefully low (Mudiay's was 7.7, for perspective on our oft starting PG, and our "great vision" hero Frank, 8.5).

He could be the biggest sleeper of those that we've signed based on all of this and should be an improvement as we were a team full of black holes. Randle also moves the ball well and can handle it for a big which should in theory help. Vonleh could handle the rock, sure but was not a passer at all.

I think he has a great chance of starting. His shooting is the biggest concern, but Ellington gives us some improvement there, and clearly that's why we've signed him. I'm not sure I'm with you, Kam, on Beverly being the better choice over Peyton, btw, as he would have cost more to play on our awful team.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on July 03, 2019, 02:09:37 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on July 03, 2019, 02:02:54 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 03, 2019, 01:42:04 PM
If you start Jr. Smith and Barrett (my preference), then you have 3 yute in the starting lineup and a vet, either Portis or Bullocks, makes the most sense at SF.  Probably Bull, because he at least puts in defensive effort.  Or Portis if he earns it.

I see him as a tweener -- between starter and bench.  Portis needs to show he's a legit starter.  Also, I can see him playing SF, since the competition is just Knox and Bullocks.  And backing up PF (and possibly C).  Portis can get 20 -25 mins per night if he deserves it.  Bullock really should be a backup and spot starter.

But since we don't want Knox to get lost, maybe Portis does backup F/C.

I predict Portis will play less than five minutes at the 3 all season. He's 6'11 and he can't shuffle his feet on the perimeter. There's no chance he plays ahead of Bullocks, Ellington, RJ, Knox and Dotson at the 3. All those guys are better options at that spot.

Hence, a C.   Mitch will get 30mpg at Center per game (i hope).  So Portis gets what is left and maybe some backup PF time.

The Randle, Mitchell, and Portis crew should give you about 86 minutes of the available 96 between those spots.  Taj for 10.

That means you will see Randle AND Portis at the same time at least some of the time.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on July 03, 2019, 02:12:12 PM
Interesting article someone posted on UK:

https://www.thebirdwrites.com/2019/1/11/18177337/elfrid-payton-new-orleans-pelicans-anthony-davis-jrue-holiday-best-nba-lineup-rajon-rondo
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on July 03, 2019, 02:15:47 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on July 03, 2019, 02:07:24 PM
I'm not sure I'm with you, Kam, on Beverly being the better choice over Peyton, btw, as he would have cost more to play on our awful team.

Perhaps.  But he would've provided veteran leadership in the backcourt where we have basically none.  Leadership from a key cog not a fringe guy.   And he would instill the basic defensive template we want on our perimeter.   Payton's defense is not as good as the scribes write up.   I look forward to his passing leading to easy buckets for our bigs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on July 03, 2019, 02:23:49 PM
Quote from: Kam on July 03, 2019, 02:15:47 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on July 03, 2019, 02:07:24 PM
I'm not sure I'm with you, Kam, on Beverly being the better choice over Peyton, btw, as he would have cost more to play on our awful team.

Perhaps.  But he would've provided veteran leadership in the backcourt where we have basically none.  Leadership from a key cog not a fringe guy.   And he would instill the basic defensive template we want on our perimeter.   Payton's defense is not as good as the scribes write up.   I look forward to his passing leading to easy buckets for our bigs.

Fair point, but we do have Ellington for that now, and I think he will get time and/or at least challenge our young guards in practice and for PT. I don't think he's going to be too fringe. He played 27mpg last season.

He also had a positive "simple rating" btw (+3.3). One of only 4 on the Pistons. Others? Drummond (+7.9) and (+7.8) Griffin and behind him by 3 points, Kennard (+0.3).

And of those 4 was the best defender.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 03, 2019, 03:02:00 PM
Mudiay to Jazz.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 03, 2019, 03:11:58 PM
Kam - you think Taj Gibson is playing TEN minutes per game?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on July 03, 2019, 03:20:07 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 03, 2019, 03:02:00 PM
Mudiay to Jazz.

For the minimum.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 03, 2019, 03:20:52 PM
Knicks PER 2018-19


Portis   16.1
Robinson  22.0
Gibson   17.8
Randle   21.0
Ellenson   13.1

Knox   8.7
Ellington   1.8
Barrett   ----
Bullock   10.5
Dotson   10.8
Brazdekis   -----

Payton   14.0
Smith   12.3
Ntlikina   6.0
Trier    12.2
Allen   16.2


Frontcourt strength

Wing needs a star - enter R J


Backcourt decent.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on July 03, 2019, 05:38:43 PM
So if you made a list of the top 50 players in the NBA, would we have a single one of them?

Say that list is expanded to 100. Do we have more than one guy that would make that list?

It's pretty remarkable. We are primed to vigorously compete with the second team of most clubs.

(not win, but vigorously compete).

Hurrah!

Okay, I'll stop with all the depressing realizations. It just keeps hitting me anew, the depths of our beloved and tragically fucked up team.

Waiting on that miracle, that wondrous leap of individual talents, that fairy tale blooming of collective greatness, that.....

Pass the pipe again, will you?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on July 03, 2019, 08:53:16 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on July 03, 2019, 02:23:49 PM
Quote from: Kam on July 03, 2019, 02:15:47 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on July 03, 2019, 02:07:24 PM
I'm not sure I'm with you, Kam, on Beverly being the better choice over Peyton, btw, as he would have cost more to play on our awful team.

Perhaps.  But he would've provided veteran leadership in the backcourt where we have basically none.  Leadership from a key cog not a fringe guy.   And he would instill the basic defensive template we want on our perimeter.   Payton's defense is not as good as the scribes write up.   I look forward to his passing leading to easy buckets for our bigs.

Fair point, but we do have Ellington for that now, and I think he will get time and/or at least challenge our young guards in practice and for PT. I don't think he's going to be too fringe. He played 27mpg last season.

He also had a positive "simple rating" btw (+3.3). One of only 4 on the Pistons. Others? Drummond (+7.9) and (+7.8) Griffin and behind him by 3 points, Kennard (+0.3).

And of those 4 was the best defender.

I can't see him getting too many minutes.  MOstly think we signed him to trade him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 03, 2019, 09:18:55 PM
Shooters gonna play
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 03, 2019, 09:58:05 PM
Jimmer’s glorious return to the NB of A was short lived. He’s swimming back to the shallower waters of the CBA where things are more on his level.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 04, 2019, 03:03:12 AM
Hey, I'm somewhat surprised/impressed JimJam even got an NBA tryout at age 30.  Not easy to do.
kiid was right about that.

But I did say that PHX essentially offered him a gussied up 10-day contract.  That was a team that might have used him, but he didn't shoot well for them. 

My guess is this brief Summer League stint was so he could say he's still in the NBA while collecting overseas offers.  Certainly the Chinese teams tout players as coming from whatever NBA team to the CBA.  They love to say that it's an NBA player coming to China.  I assume Jimmer will return to China where he gets to be a one-man-offense as opposed to going to a more balanced Euro-game.

In 2 GSW Summer games, Jimmer shot 44%, but just 1-7 on 3's.  Without those going down, nobody will want him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 04, 2019, 06:24:33 AM
Initially Portis was listed at 6'10 235.  If he's 6'11" 250 I guess he's a PF and fake C.  Is that what happened to him --  he bulked up and lost mobility?
Anyway, i just don't see Randle and Portis successfully defending the rim.  Especially when we'll have backcourt sieves like Jr. SMith, Elfin Payton (pesky, but weak) and rooks like Knox and Barrett playing picador D (they haven't reached the matador stage yet -- though the metaphor breaks down ...)

I think we'll start Mitch and Taj will be the primary backup C.  Portis backup PF, which would just give him 15-18 a night. 

Looking like a lot of options for the Lakes.
They should be telling Kawhi that if he joins LeBJ and AD, the Super-trio can add Iggy, Korver and whoever else as running mates.   WCS could have been an option if Kawhi decided sooner.  But in any case looks like Lakes will be able to build out their roster.  Would Boogie join up at the vet min or whatever minor exemption the LAL have?  Would that be wise?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 04, 2019, 07:01:44 AM
What I like about what we did, targeting and approach;

No top target should want to come to a 17 win team. Adding the third pick doesn’t move that needle. Those guys get rookies (Shabaz), they don’t join them.

You can convince a player to take fewer years for more money or control. You can get him to take less money for more years or control and less control for more years or money.

In every case, we upped the dollars for shorter contracts with team control. No one-and-dones unless the Knicks want them Done. For Randle that would make him a two and done. We had the money and slots to play it that way. It was an approach that lets you get worthwhile players while maintaining flexibility.

We wasted no time on the biggest ticket guys and gave the next most productive, healthy, age appropriate guy a call right away. Our targeting started with Randle. He does a lot for a guy playing his position and the things he’s not good at he’s above average at for his spot and improving. We should be asking him to do less on O, setting up other guys and letting them set him up, and balancing his effort and focus more on both ends. He had at least one good defensive year for The Lakers. His focus should be on maxing out his potential as a two way player.

We got a guard and a big with productive skills, who’ve been well coached, who can hang by supplementing average physiques with knowledge, instincts, determination, and confidence. On the downside of their careers, they can’t be expected to carry career average loads, but the know a ton about playing and preparing and the personnel in the league and the situations that can arise over the course of a season. Taj & Wayne are frontcourt and backcourt platoon leaders respectively. They are also the smallest guys we signed to each platoon.

Next we got productive young vets with track records in very definable roles. Elfrid is a distributing point. Reggie is a wing sniper. Bobby is a stretch big. Between the draft and our holdover young players, we have predominantly slashers in need of lanes along with the rim runner in Mitch. If the new guys keep doing what they’ve been doing, it gives the kids the support to succeed.

If these guys condition right and find a decent scheme, they may score or not and will probably play a little ugly, but they should wear teams down by making them work just with pace and physicality. Our worst defensive frontcourt is probably Portis and Randle, unless we have a better coaching staff thanI think. They both rebound and one handles like an off guard and the other shoots like one. If we don’t get a grind we’ll have a track race.

I’d like to see us get one more big as insurance, but I think we can get by if we stay healthy. The roster spot and exception or remaining cap room can be used then. The roster spot also reminds players that a guy to replace you can be brought in tomorrow with no further moves. Carrots and sticks.

When looking at the cap numbers remember these guys came to a 17 win club on team friendly terms and decided right away.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 04, 2019, 08:58:29 AM
I think we'll start Mitch and Taj will be the primary backup C.  Portis backup PF, which would just give him 15-18 a night. 


heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 04, 2019, 11:10:55 AM
Well, Mitch's minutes will likely fluctuate, unless he can avoid early foul trouble that plagued him frequently his rook year.  I think we'd like to get 25-30 mins out of Mitch.  But he might average more like 20-25 since he might have nights where he plays just 15 mins due to fouls.

If you want Taj to be a leader, he needs to be on the court a significant amount of time.  And he can help organize a defense.

here's a yahoo Sports article that echoes what I said:
Quote
signing versatile Julius Randle to a two-year deal with a team-optioned third is a sound approach that keeps them flexible and agile for future moves. Restricted free agent Bobby Portis is high-energy big who can play both forward spots and is ambitious for more.

There'll be SF minutes available.  I think Fizz will try Portis at SF and at C, and see where he fits.  As just a backup PF, his court time will be limited.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 04, 2019, 12:28:42 PM
Quote
All of R.J. Barrett, Kevin Knox, Mitchell Robinson, Allonzo Trier and Ignas Brazdeikis are likely to play on New York’s Summer League outfit when the Knicks take the Las Vegas stage against the Pelicans.
...
New York has pivoted nicely into adding supplementary players for the team’s young pieces. And we may actually witness a starting lineup David Fizdale unveils at one point during the regular season in Las Vegas, featuring the five players listed above.

Scouts who are high on Barrett maintain his aggressive, driving style will translate better in the NBA, where half-court offenses are greater stretched than they were at Duke. Robinson will present an intriguing pick-and-roll partner. Trier and Barrett may also run a handful of high screen action together. And we’ll have a nice glimpse of Knox’s growth as a shooter playing off-ball in Las Vegas, where last year’s No. 9 selection absolutely exploded a year ago.

The Knicks’ summer unit may be the closest thing we’ve seen in July to a team’s true roster. And it will be very interesting to get a glimpse of New York’s next iteration.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 04, 2019, 12:42:13 PM
heh - squared
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on July 04, 2019, 01:33:47 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 04, 2019, 07:01:44 AM
What I like about what we did, targeting and approach;

No top target should want to come to a 17 win team. Adding the third pick doesn’t move that needle. Those guys get rookies (Shabaz), they don’t join them.

You can convince a player to take fewer years for more money or control. You can get him to take less money for more years or control and less control for more years or money.

In every case, we upped the dollars for shorter contracts with team control. No one-and-dones unless the Knicks want them Done. For Randle that would make him a two and done. We had the money and slots to play it that way. It was an approach that lets you get worthwhile players while maintaining flexibility.

We wasted no time on the biggest ticket guys and gave the next most productive, healthy, age appropriate guy a call right away. Our targeting started with Randle. He does a lot for a guy playing his position and the things he’s not good at he’s above average at for his spot and improving. We should be asking him to do less on O, setting up other guys and letting them set him up, and balancing his effort and focus more on both ends. He had at least one good defensive year for The Lakers. His focus should be on maxing out his potential as a two way player.

We got a guard and a big with productive skills, who’ve been well coached, who can hang by supplementing average physiques with knowledge, instincts, determination, and confidence. On the downside of their careers, they can’t be expected to carry career average loads, but the know a ton about playing and preparing and the personnel in the league and the situations that can arise over the course of a season. Taj & Wayne are frontcourt and backcourt platoon leaders respectively. They are also the smallest guys we signed to each platoon.

Next we got productive young vets with track records in very definable roles. Elfrid is a distributing point. Reggie is a wing sniper. Bobby is a stretch big. Between the draft and our holdover young players, we have predominantly slashers in need of lanes along with the rim runner in Mitch. If the new guys keep doing what they’ve been doing, it gives the kids the support to succeed.

If these guys condition right and find a decent scheme, they may score or not and will probably play a little ugly, but they should wear teams down by making them work just with pace and physicality. Our worst defensive frontcourt is probably Portis and Randle, unless we have a better coaching staff thanI think. They both rebound and one handles like an off guard and the other shoots like one. If we don’t get a grind we’ll have a track race.

I’d like to see us get one more big as insurance, but I think we can get by if we stay healthy. The roster spot and exception or remaining cap room can be used then. The roster spot also reminds players that a guy to replace you can be brought in tomorrow with no further moves. Carrots and sticks.

When looking at the cap numbers remember these guys came to a 17 win club on team friendly terms and decided right away.
Highly tradable role players come January.  Nothing wrong with that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on July 04, 2019, 02:01:07 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 04, 2019, 08:58:29 AM
I think we'll start Mitch and Taj will be the primary backup C.  Portis backup PF, which would just give him 15-18 a night. 


heh

Then why sign Portis for 15mil to play 15min?   

Unless your claim is ... it's the Knicks...  which ok i accept.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 04, 2019, 02:08:25 PM
I have Portis getting another 10-15 mins a night at SF.
getting him to 25+ mins.

I think the Knix took a flyer on Portis and want to see where he can fit and what he can do.  He can't just be a PF for these Knix, since we signed Randle, and he's the starter.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 04, 2019, 02:48:27 PM
Josh Jackson, Kelly Oubre...

https://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/big-12/university-of-kansas/article232264202.html

Will be interesting to see the number Suns need to match on KO

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on July 04, 2019, 03:38:58 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 04, 2019, 02:08:25 PM
I have Portis getting another 10-15 mins a night at SF.
getting him to 25+ mins.

I think the Knix took a flyer on Portis and want to see where he can fit and what he can do.  He can't just be a PF for these Knix, since we signed Randle, and he's the starter.

This is just not who he is as a player.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 04, 2019, 04:00:19 PM
I think you will see plenty of Portis/Randle

Some of Portis/Randle/Gibson

Some of 2 of the above with Robinson.

Basically we are playing with an open 3 position.  Bit of a revolving door.  3 guard lineup at times of course possible in this regard

The only thing all the additions have done is

a)  eliminate a Kornet or other 5, a Mudiay (gone) or other 1..

b)  Make it tougher on Damien Dotson and Frank Ntilikina  to see the court
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 04, 2019, 04:12:56 PM
It will be interesting to see how Chop Suey does in Chicago. He should get a chance at run early as Wendell Carter is recovering from surgery.

Maybe Mike Conley can make a man out of Mudiay. For us the reward isn’t high enough and we don’t have the time.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 04, 2019, 05:19:33 PM
Emmanuel took strides last year.  But Utah media promoting Utah's system as a fix for EM's game.

Media fucktards.

heh

Clearly Exum will be dealt.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 04, 2019, 05:25:10 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 04, 2019, 02:08:25 PM
I have Portis getting another 10-15 mins a night at SF.
getting him to 25+ mins.

I think the Knix took a flyer on Portis and want to see where he can fit and what he can do.  He can't just be a PF for these Knix, since we signed Randle, and he's the starter.

Thats cool

I withdraw my    HEH
Title: Summer League Tigers
Post by: Kam on July 04, 2019, 11:01:17 PM
2019 Las Vegas NBA Summer League Champ Game winner updated

NYK 10/1
Phi, Por, SA 12/1
Min 14/1
Sac, Wsh, Mil, NO 16/1
Orl 18/1
Atl, Bos, Phx, Mia 20/1
Det, GS, Chi 25/1
Team Croatia, Den, Cha, Cle, Dal, Mem, Uta, Hou, LAC 30/1
Ind, LAL, OKC, Tor 40/1
Bkn 50/1
Team China 100/1
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 05, 2019, 02:14:40 AM
We have a lot of guys coming off of double figure seasons

Portis
Randle
Gibson
Knox
Bullock
Dotson
Ellington
Trier
Smith Jr.
Payton

Only Frank and Mitch did not hit the mark in scoring. Our two-way guy, Allen, only missed it by 0.1
ppg.

Internal competition should be pretty fierce with this team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 05, 2019, 02:49:17 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 04, 2019, 05:19:33 PM
Emmanuel took strides last year.  But Utah media promoting Utah's system as a fix for EM's game.

Clearly Exum will be dealt.

It's a knock on the Knicks.  Playing within a system and with better players and vets can help Muddy's game.  NYK was a weird situation last year, and Mud did all right and certainly improved.

Mud only got $2.5M or whatever.
I think UTEs will see if Exum is healthy and let them compete.  They'd probably like to move Exum because of his contract -- unless he's good to go and plays well.

Odd that they are teammates because in my mind, Exum and Mud have trod the same path.  Int'l mystery men, who have had a tough time becoming NBA PG's.  UTA blew it by giving X-um a sizable contract.

What I liked about Mud last year is he found a move that worked.  Get into the lane, give a shoulder bump and hit a little stepback 8-10'.  But he also got some deflections and steals on D.  Better effort and court awareness on that end (though still needs work). 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 05, 2019, 09:48:37 AM
Ladies and gentlemen - Elfrid Payton:

https://hoopshype.com/2019/07/04/nba-free-agency-rumors-knicks-new-york-elfrid-payton-randle-barrett-durant-kyrie-irving/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on July 05, 2019, 01:21:54 PM
Great interview. Encouraging.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 05, 2019, 04:04:53 PM
Let's hope Elfrid, Portis; Barrett, Mitch & Knox can handle NYC.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 05, 2019, 04:12:40 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 05, 2019, 04:04:53 PM
Let's hope Elfrid, Portis; Barrett, Mitch & Knox can handle NYC.

You’re not worried about Reggie, Julius, Ignas, DJ, and Frank?

The only ones I’m not worried about are Gibson, Ellington, Trier, and Dot.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 05, 2019, 04:12:45 PM
Program note

Knicks v Pelicans 2 am nba TV
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 05, 2019, 04:15:53 PM
Mitch got invited to USA select camp.

Ellison will not be joining us for summer league.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 05, 2019, 06:14:38 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 05, 2019, 04:12:40 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 05, 2019, 04:04:53 PM
Let's hope Elfrid, Portis; Barrett, Mitch & Knox can handle NYC.

You’re not worried about Reggie, Julius, Ignas, DJ, and Frank?

Add Jr. Smith to my list ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 05, 2019, 06:22:17 PM
ROSTER


New York Knicks (Vegas Summer League)

PLAYER   POS   HT   AGE   EXP   LAST TEAM
Allonzo Trier   SG   6-5   23   1   New York Knicks
Amir Hinton   PG   6-5   22   0   Shaw (NCAA II)
Andrew White   SF   6-7   26   1   Maine (G League)
Ignas Brazdeikis   SF   6-6   20   0   Michigan
Kadeem Allen   SG   6-3   26   2   New York Knicks
Kenny Wooten   PF   6-9   21   0   Oregon
Kevin Knox   SF   6-9   19   1   New York Knicks
Lamar Peters   PG   6-0   21   0   Mississippi St.
Markel Crawford   SG   6-4   24   0   Memphis (G League)
Mitchell Robinson   C   7-1   21   1   New York Knicks
RJ Barrett   SG   6-7   19   0   Duke
Speedy Smith   PG   6-3   26   0   Grand Rapids (G League)
Tyler Cavanaugh   PF   6-9   25   2   Utah Jazz
VJ King   SF   6-6   22   0   Louisville
Zak Irvin   SG   6-6   24   0   Westchester (G League)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 05, 2019, 06:31:48 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyler_Cavanaugh

MVP of NIT

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speedy_Smith

Conference USA Player of the Year



Lamar Peters also interesting.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 05, 2019, 06:33:27 PM
I prefer Trier and Allen not be there
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 05, 2019, 06:38:10 PM
Jimmer update - doesnt look like its China


Sam Amick: Source tells @TheAthletic that Jimmer’s talks with several teams overseas about substantial offers reached a point where he no longer wanted to risk injury 2 days ago – via Twitter sam_amick
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 05, 2019, 09:14:26 PM
Speaking of, I'm not really sure what kind of team China sent, but they got crushed by 39 by the Heat Summer team.  The China starters scored just 23 points.  Which was matched by Tyler Herro.
China only scored 25 pints int he 1st half.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on July 05, 2019, 09:15:22 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 05, 2019, 04:12:45 PM
Program note

Knicks v Pelicans 2 am nba TV

9:30 on ESPN
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on July 05, 2019, 09:55:11 PM
Never seen replays of shots taken in lay-up line before.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on July 05, 2019, 09:57:38 PM
Jesus, the Zion hype is tedious
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on July 05, 2019, 10:35:46 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 05, 2019, 06:22:17 PM
ROSTER


New York Knicks (Vegas Summer League)

PLAYER   POS   HT   AGE   EXP   LAST TEAM
Allonzo Trier   SG   6-5   23   1   New York Knicks
Amir Hinton   PG   6-5   22   0   Shaw (NCAA II)
Andrew White   SF   6-7   26   1   Maine (G League)
Ignas Brazdeikis   SF   6-6   20   0   Michigan
Kadeem Allen   SG   6-3   26   2   New York Knicks
Kenny Wooten   PF   6-9   21   0   Oregon
Kevin Knox   SF   6-9   19   1   New York Knicks
Lamar Peters   PG   6-0   21   0   Mississippi St.
Markel Crawford   SG   6-4   24   0   Memphis (G League)
Mitchell Robinson   C   7-1   21   1   New York Knicks
RJ Barrett   SG   6-7   19   0   Duke
Speedy Smith   PG   6-3   26   0   Grand Rapids (G League)
Tyler Cavanaugh   PF   6-9   25   2   Utah Jazz
VJ King   SF   6-6   22   0   Louisville
Zak Irvin   SG   6-6   24   0   Westchester (G League)

Title contenders
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 06, 2019, 02:14:35 AM
2 earthquakes, the one I felt on my couch while watching the Thomas Mack scoreboard sway over the summer league court and Kawhi to the Clips + PGIII for Gallo, SGA, mad picks.

RJ has a lot of work to do. Our sophomores all look ready to make the jump. Ignas will be ok.

My guess is that some of JaVale McGee, JoNo, and Jerebko now head to the Clips.

What will the Raptors do now?

Being the Knicks is looking better and better.

Zion needs to drop his freshman 15.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 06, 2019, 06:11:40 AM
Very interesting.
Kawhi & PG are two of the best two-way players in the League.
(other candidates LeBJ, who doesn't work much on D anymore, Anti-Greek, who can't shoot 3's, and whoever rounds out the Top 5).  Great role for Pa Bev, where he gets to defend like mad and spot up, and those two can initiate the offense mostly.  Montrezl another high energy guy.  I'd like playing with Pa Bev and Montrezl on my team.

I really need to find a site that has up-to-date rosters and depth charts.  Anyone know where?  ESPN won't get around to fixing their depth charts for months.  Don't they have interns?  Not to hard to move a player from one team to another once a trade goes down.

Kawhi sure screwed over TOR.  They did get a title out of him.  But now Green has bolted for LAL.  And they have an aging Ma Gasol (34) and Lowry (33).  Siakim and OG are young and solid.
I guess they make one more run with that crew (+ Ibaka who just seems old).  But I assume they'll also listen to trades for Lowry, Ma Gasoil, Ibaka.

Not sure who LAC have:
Pa Bev -
Shamet - Lou Will
PG 13 - 
KY Jelly - JaMike Green
Montrezl - Zubac 

Need to fill in the bench.
Too bad they lost Shai who was interesting, but gotta give to get.
Hadn't thought of it before, but LouW is a perfect mentor for Shamet.

What's OKC's plan?  Will they trade Westbrook for yute and a rebuild?  All those picks aren't going to help Westbrook win.  Shai - Westbrook - Adams - lotta future draft picks ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 06, 2019, 06:49:13 AM
R&B Jr. has work to do.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on July 06, 2019, 09:19:46 AM
I was preparing to rant about Kawhi to the Lakers.

Nice surprise and what a haul OKC got for George.

Fuck the Lakers!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on July 06, 2019, 09:21:18 AM
The Clippers! It's going to be an excellent year for the NBA.

It's a shame Wilkes isn't playing in the summer league; I wanted to take a look at the guy. Was also wondering if Robinson would be expanding his game at all. So far, no hint at that, but it's early.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on July 06, 2019, 09:24:17 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on July 06, 2019, 09:19:46 AM
I was preparing to rant about Kawhi to the Lakers.

Nice surprise and what a haul OKC got for George.

Fuck the Lakers!

Yes, fuck the Lakers!

(but then I get paranoid)

(they can't get Westbrook, can they?)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on July 06, 2019, 10:11:01 AM
Quote from: elephant on July 06, 2019, 09:24:17 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on July 06, 2019, 09:19:46 AM
I was preparing to rant about Kawhi to the Lakers.

Nice surprise and what a haul OKC got for George.

Fuck the Lakers!

Yes, fuck the Lakers!

(but then I get paranoid)

(they can't get Westbrook, can they?)

Not enough cap space right now. They can get fancy and maybe make a deal later, but difficult to pull off this season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on July 06, 2019, 10:18:05 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 06, 2019, 06:11:40 AM
Not sure who LAC have:
Pa Bev -
Shamet - Lou Will
PG 13 - 
KY Jelly - JaMike Green
Montrezl - Zubac 


Who is KY Jelly? This is one of those nicknames that is too much.

They have Thornwell and Jerome Robinson are going to have a shot to get some minutes; Robinson was a surprise lottery pick just a year ago.

McGruder is the back-up 3. Harkless is the starting 4.

They haven't signed J-Mike (that's his actual nickname, by the way); Dallas should really make him an offer.  Clips need another big and you have to assume Boogie will be on their radar for the roomie exception, although they may prefer J-Mike. Melo is going to play for one of the LA teams, although I figure the Lakers have more minutes for him.

They're going to do well on the buyout market - Korver as much a risk to go there as the Lakers.

Anyhow, they're a legit choice as championship faves right now.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on July 06, 2019, 10:18:51 AM
Watch Houston trade Iman Shumpert and a first rounder for Iguodala. That would place the Rockets ahead of the Lakers and Sixers and behind the Clippers in the pecking order, I'd say.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 06, 2019, 11:47:45 AM
C'mon, pretty obvious Kawhi is on the Clips and starting ...

I didn't realize that's where Hark ended up.
Solid role player.
They really need a backup PG, as Pa Bev gets dinged up.
And they could use someone to help run the 2nd unit as well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 06, 2019, 12:39:22 PM
This site seems fairly good for rosters:
https://www.lineups.com/nba/roster/new-york-knicks

They have Elfin and Co.
But they still have Vonleh and Kornet Chop Suey affiliated with the Knix.  So still not that great.

How hard is it to update this stuff? 
Especially when that seems to be the entire purpose of your site.

Edit: their depth chart doesn't even have Randle, Portis, Elfin.
Kind of a fail ...

I haven't heard much about Ariza and Wil.
I seem to have caught something that said Gay and DMC were signing with SA.  But it was just a headline with no article.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 06, 2019, 02:21:00 PM
I think when more of the agreements become official signings, sites will update their rosters.

Remember DJ to the Mavs a few years back.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on July 06, 2019, 03:29:01 PM
So, uh, who do we give OKC for the Westbrook contract, again?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on July 06, 2019, 03:32:08 PM
Please don't mention the numbers. And the impossibility. And why it would be a disaster even if it is possible.

I just love the idea of the giddy insanity.

It wouldn't be boring.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on July 06, 2019, 03:42:48 PM
Mercifully, it's not possible until mid-season.

He makes $47 million in a couple of seasons. He's had knee issues. He's a terrible fit stylistically next to RJ Barrett. He can neither take a team far as the #1 option nor adjust his game to be a #2 option. Needless to say, I am firmly of the belief his acquisition would be mostly a terrible idea.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 06, 2019, 03:57:09 PM
Boogie and Rondo to the Lakes.

Rondo - Q Cook?
Danny Green - KCP - Troy Daniels
LeBJ -
Kuzma - Dudley
AD - Boogie

Not sure about Caruso and JaVale.
Looks like they could use an SF backup.
Ariza?
Though preferably someone young with fresh legs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 06, 2019, 04:06:18 PM
Is George Healthy?

Who’s the best team in LA at the moment?

Rustbrook is the kind of excitement I only wish on Brooklyn.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 06, 2019, 04:21:10 PM
"What will the Raptors do now?

- they will still be quite good.  SYSTEM.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 06, 2019, 04:48:59 PM
Lowry 33; Ma Gasol 34 . . .
Title: Westbrook
Post by: carlos123 on July 06, 2019, 04:49:59 PM
Quote from: elephant on July 06, 2019, 03:29:01 PM
So, uh, who do we give OKC for the Westbrook contract, again?

Anything they want.

Well... except RJ and Robinson maybe.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 06, 2019, 06:12:44 PM
When is game 2?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 06, 2019, 06:13:34 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 06, 2019, 04:48:59 PM
Lowry 33; Ma Gasol 34 . . .

and...?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 06, 2019, 06:16:37 PM
Svi!!!!!

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/nba/pistons/2019/07/06/svi-mykhailiuk-detroit-pistons/1665299001/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 06, 2019, 06:17:55 PM
Zion out for rresof of summer league

Schedule

https://stats.nba.com/schedule/summerleague/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 06, 2019, 07:08:49 PM
I just want to take a moment to acknowledge that Alonzo Trier dunked in the middle of an earthquake. That’s what you call locked in.

I think we should pick up Mozgov if he’s healthy so we have one exceptionally large body on the roster. Mitch is tall but not large. Julius and BP are large but not exceptionally so. It would be a minimum thing. All the better options just joined the Lakers.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 06, 2019, 07:13:05 PM
Russ to the Heat w Jimmy Butler?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 06, 2019, 07:55:13 PM
Marcus Morris 2-20 to Spurs
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 06, 2019, 07:58:33 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 06, 2019, 07:08:49 PM
I just want to take a moment to acknowledge that Alonzo Trier dunked in the middle of an earthquake. That’s what you call locked in.

I think we should pick up Mozgov if he’s healthy so we have one exceptionally large body on the roster. Mitch is tall but not large. Julius and BP are large but not exceptionally so. It would be a minimum thing. All the better options just joined the Lakers.

D Howard available now for the minimum.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on July 06, 2019, 10:16:59 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 06, 2019, 07:13:05 PM
Russ to the Heat w Jimmy Butler?

I was thinking the same thought.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on July 06, 2019, 11:06:07 PM
Quote from: Kam on July 06, 2019, 10:16:59 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 06, 2019, 07:13:05 PM
Russ to the Heat w Jimmy Butler?

I was thinking the same thought.

And one of the rumored teams
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on July 07, 2019, 12:44:13 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on July 06, 2019, 03:42:48 PM
Mercifully, it's not possible until mid-season.

He makes $47 million in a couple of seasons. He's had knee issues. He's a terrible fit stylistically next to RJ Barrett. He can neither take a team far as the #1 option nor adjust his game to be a #2 option. Needless to say, I am firmly of the belief his acquisition would be mostly a terrible idea.

To clarify, that's where his salary tops out at in a couple of years. He's in the $38m range now. He's such a bad idea (sorry Carlos).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on July 07, 2019, 12:44:28 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 06, 2019, 07:55:13 PM
Marcus Morris 2-20 to Spurs

Deal of the summer.
Title: Russell
Post by: carlos123 on July 07, 2019, 01:12:14 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on July 07, 2019, 12:44:13 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on July 06, 2019, 03:42:48 PM
Mercifully, it's not possible until mid-season.

He makes $47 million in a couple of seasons. He's had knee issues. He's a terrible fit stylistically next to RJ Barrett. He can neither take a team far as the #1 option nor adjust his game to be a #2 option. Needless to say, I am firmly of the belief his acquisition would be mostly a terrible idea.

To clarify, that's where his salary tops out at in a couple of years. He's in the $38m range now. He's such a bad idea (sorry Carlos).

No problem Biz, we ain’t gonna get him anyway.

Him and Mitch would combine for 60 ppg.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on July 07, 2019, 01:47:02 AM
In 1997 the Sonics traded  Bobby Jackson for Rashard Lewis. Later traded him into cap space and garnered a $9M trade exception, which was pretty big at the time. In a brilliant move, they acquired Kurt Thomas and a 1st rounder from a Phoenix Suns team desperate to dump salary. That pick, in the 20s, was Serge Ibaka (nice scouting, Thunder!). Ibaka was good for OKC, but they flipped him for Victor Oladipo and the recently drafted Domantas Sabonis. A year later, those two were rerouted for all-star Paul George.

In sum: Bobby Jackson became first rounders in 2021, 22, 23, 23 (swap), 24, 25 (swap), 26 plus Shai Gilgeous-Alexander and Danilo Gallinari.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 07, 2019, 05:18:01 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 06, 2019, 06:13:34 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 06, 2019, 04:48:59 PM
Lowry 33; Ma Gasol 34 . . .
and...?

Lowry has proven to be a regular season player.
No extra gear.
Kawhi really had to bust his ass to drag the team to the top.
Also, short PG's of the semi-round variety don't age well.

Gasol seems on his last legs.  Doesn't even seem in shape anymore.  Still a smart player.  But he's really a bench player now.

Siakim 25 and becoming a star.  But still somewhat raw.
OG 21 and just getting started.

In between you have marginal players like Norm Powell, FVV (great heart), and Ibaka who is enigmatic.

Lowry, Ma Gasol and Ibaka earn $78M next year combined, but are all ending deals.    Will TOR be able to re-sign them at reasonable rates?  Is that even a wise idea?  How do they move on?

Valanciunas is gone.  FVV is a grinder but hard to see him as a legit starter.  Just a strong backup PG. 

They can be a 4-5 playoff team next year, and duck out in a round or two.  Or try to move Gasol for something (which might include a bad contract as well).  Or move Lowry.  Ibaka might have the most appeal. 

They're in a tricky in-between land.
And those ending contracts require a decision.
Even if you re-sign Lowry to a reasonable 3 year deal, keep Gasol cheaply, and Ibaka stays, how do you fill in around them and guard against aging? 

They need to make a decision this year or next Summer.
Not sure a lot of cap space does too much good in TOR.  And next year FA class supposed to be weak anyway.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 07, 2019, 05:21:14 AM
Odd, DMC traded to SA in a deal that sent Bertans to WAS.
Wonder why I read DMC to SA 2 or 3 days ago?
And he had a 2 year deal that SA extended to 3.
Next year is his age 33 season. W hy lock him up at age 35 when it wasn't necessary?  Odd.  he's had injury issues too

Wonder why Spurs wanted him and ditched the much younger Bertans (26), who can light it up.  I like DMC and don't get this deal.  Spurs had trouble scoring last year.  And were oldish.  DMC doesn't help with those issues.

Same time I saw DMC to SA, I saw they were resigning Gay.  Not sure if that went down, but my brief trip into the future said it will happen.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 07, 2019, 06:06:29 AM
Teams often convert agreed signings into trades to influence cap numbers, create trade exceptions, or shift small assets. Usually this occurs when one or more parties work out an additional signing or trade between the agreement and execution of the original deal being converted from a simple signing to a trade.

Raps can start a youth movement with Lowry and Gasol as tent poles. Acquire young cheap talent and see where it takes them. They can shop for known talent once those two come off the books. Now that SG and SF are open up North, Vince Carter should go back to his first NBA home for his final season or seasons.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 07, 2019, 06:57:17 AM
Quinn Cook to Lakes (Rondo - Cook)

Avery Bradley a very free man.
Early tumors link him to GSW.
Playing time while Klay is out.
High profile team.
Min salary.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on July 07, 2019, 11:11:01 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 07, 2019, 05:18:01 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 06, 2019, 06:13:34 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 06, 2019, 04:48:59 PM
Lowry 33; Ma Gasol 34 . . .
and...?

Lowry has proven to be a regular season player.
No extra gear.
Kawhi really had to bust his ass to drag the team to the top.
Also, short PG's of the semi-round variety don't age well.

Gasol seems on his last legs.  Doesn't even seem in shape anymore.  Still a smart player.  But he's really a bench player now.

Man, I disagree with these takes (those I highlighted). Like you didn't watch the playoffs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on July 07, 2019, 11:14:26 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 07, 2019, 06:57:17 AM
Quinn Cook to Lakes (Rondo - Cook)

Avery Bradley a very free man.
Early tumors link him to GSW.
Playing time while Klay is out.
High profile team.
Min salary.

Philly needs to be after him. Dallas too. I would have liked him on the Lakers, but not sure if there are minutes for him there any more.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on July 07, 2019, 11:18:36 AM
Portis: “I knew what was gonna happen in Feb. We all knew that [KD & Kyrie would go to Brooklyn]. Everybody knew that. I just don’t think the media knew that. Us basketball players, we all knew that.”
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 07, 2019, 12:11:57 PM
Lowry was very up and down in the playoffs.
A poor series v. PHI.  Pretty good v. MIL.
Up and down v GS.
7 pts in G1 of the Finals.
Fouled out of G2 with 2 assists.
G4 shot poorly and scored 10 points.
Good in G3 & a big G6.
Okay in G5.
he was oddly foul prone in the series as well.

After Kawhi, Siakim and FVV had as much to do with getting the title as Lowry.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on July 07, 2019, 12:24:07 PM
Lowry had a great finals - that alone makes a mockery of your statement. He was not poor against Philly, overall, either. The stats don't really reflect how well he played, in particular his floor game and when he chose to attack.

Gasol was incredible defending Vooch and Embiid, and his passing unlocked so much for them offensively.

Also, the intelligence of both guys was so instrumental to the junky defensive schemes that were so decisive against Milwaukee and Golden State (rather differing schemes too). You dismissing them as "broken" and "regular season" guys suggests you're box score hunting.

Both are aging, both are being paid more than they would get on the open market today. But they were really good in the playoffs, and they're both going to be important parts to Toronto's 47 win, 4th or 5th seed season which is coming up. (Obviously health determines so much)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 07, 2019, 01:10:04 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on July 07, 2019, 12:24:07 PM
Lowry had a great finals - that alone makes a mockery of your statement.

We watched different Finals apparently.  Disagree with that assertion.

I saw Lowry scratch and claw and foul and come up big finally in G6, particularly the 1Q.  Lowry had a very up and down Finals.

Hell, i think he only had 5 points in the 2nd half of G6.

Don't discount the first 2 games.
And he couldn't hit a 3 in G4 & G5.
But fortunately Fred came out of his funk to salvage things.

Lowry has a long history of poor playoff performance.
This year he was up and down.
And didn't exceed his reg season output.
And he's aging.

Without an other-worldly, possibly best-in-the-League playoff performance by Kawhi, TOR would have been knocked out in the early rounds.  And now they don't have Kawhi.  You can't count on Lowry to get you far in the playoffs.  And that's where they'll be this year without a major shakeup.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 07, 2019, 05:48:53 PM
Who liked Stanley Johnson?  He is with the Raptors now.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 07, 2019, 05:56:24 PM
Last three years in playoffs Lowry shoots 46/38/81

15.7 points
6.9 assists
4.4 rebounds
1.4 steals
.144 wins shares per 48
16.5 PER
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 07, 2019, 06:45:13 PM
I think Toronto has the 9 mil exception and a total in trade exceptions of another 9 or so.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 07, 2019, 07:55:30 PM
I’m just glad we got our work done early and no one seems to be backing out.
Title: Iggy can play
Post by: Kam on July 07, 2019, 11:08:00 PM
Can handle, pass, and create his own lanes to score.   Strong.  Finishes with either hand.  Showed clutch gene tonight. Looks like a "more in-control Mindaugas Kuzminskas"  in my early assessment.  Another Lithuanian and former Knick. Iggy was drafted #47, after the Knicks sent #55 and a million cash to the Kings.  #55 was originally acquired from HOU for Pablo Prigioni.  Pablo + $1 mil = Iggy

--

Wooten is intriguing as a "Mitch Robinson - lite"

Mitch Robinson looked like "Mitch Robinson - XL"

Kevin Knox is looking more or less the same.   
It's like he fancies himself as a Baby Klay Thompson on offense. 
That shot better stay pure to justify his usage and shot selection and lack of other impact.

RJ looks as-advertised.   
The game hasn't slowed down for him yet.  Lotta big apple turnovers.
But he doesn't lack confidence and a jumper with a nice arc on it.

I'm coming away with the idea that Kadeem Allen isn't the answer. 
Allowing Justin Harper to go off and not dominating offensively.
Title: Projecting the Western Conf playoffs
Post by: Kam on July 08, 2019, 12:05:16 AM
1-6 may be different but these would be the teams in some order.  Who would be 7 and 8?


1.Houston
2.Los Angeles L
3.Golden State
4.Los Angeles C
5.Denver
6.Utah
7.
8.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 08, 2019, 12:18:07 AM
You think Portland and the Spurs drop out? Do the Mavs take one of their spots?

I liked the little we saw of Hinton.

Braz is kind of exciting. He’s a real wing with tools and good strength.

RJ has so much work to do.

Knox and Mitch look like themselves but more so.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on July 08, 2019, 12:31:51 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 08, 2019, 12:18:07 AM
You think Portland and the Spurs drop out? Do the Mavs take one of their spots?


Portland added Whiteside and re-signed Rodney Hood.   Does that improve them?  They're topped out in NBA never never land.  Not good enough to win the West and everyone else got better.   The Spurs and Blazers may end up 7 and 8 indeed but had uninspiring offseasons relative to the rest of the beefed up west.   Maybe Houston implodes but they have the most continuity.
Memphis is my dark horse to sneak into the playoffs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on July 08, 2019, 02:03:50 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 07, 2019, 05:48:53 PM
Who liked Stanley Johnson?  He is with the Raptors now.

I predicted $2m. Bo thought $6-7. He got pretty much right in between.

He'll be fighting RHJ and Terrence Davis for minutes at the back-up 3 and small-ball 4. Good spot for him to get on track.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 08, 2019, 04:07:27 AM
Just a $3.7M contract, but he did get a player opt on Y2.
Must be somewhat disappointing for him, but gets to a good team.
TOR would be a nice re-start for StanJohn if they didn't sign RHJ the next day.  Both wing defenders who can't shoot outside.
RHJ more of a combo F; Stan a wing combo.

Since TOR has Norm Powell and McCaw at SG, I guess StanJohn mostly backs up their F's.  Stan is a talented defender, a good cutter, has added some slashing attacks, terrific on the break.  But it's such a shooters league now that you can't get by if you can't pop in an open J.  He also is turnover prone trying to do too much.

Here's a good breakdown of his game:
https://raptorsrapture.com/2019/07/07/toronto-raptors-stanley-johnson/

I didn't realize rim finishing was a problem, but I think it's because he'll force the action ad go up against 2 or 3 guys.  he never pays attention to the help defender, and has no pass-off backup plan.  Maybe just young, but a flaw in his O awareness.

Fwiw, Stan just turned 23.  Still time to up his game and improve his shot.  And decision-making.  StanJohn gives honest effort on both ends, just his O isn't there, and really he should try to do less.

I've been hesitant to say this, but if you look at R&B Jr. his body and physical profile looks a lot like Stan John.  RJB is going to need to develop a 3.  And learn to play attentive D.
Title: Re: Projecting the Western Conf playoffs
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 08, 2019, 09:38:55 AM
Quote from: Kam on July 08, 2019, 12:05:16 AM
1-6 may be different but these would be the teams in some order.  Who would be 7 and 8?


1.Houston
2.Los Angeles L
3.Golden State
4.Los Angeles C
5.Denver
6.Utah
7.
8.

heh

Mavs
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 08, 2019, 09:46:53 AM
Darkhorse - Phoenix
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on July 08, 2019, 10:00:18 AM
Summer league doesn't mean shit. But that 3-point shot Iggy took near (and made) near the end of regulation deserves some attention.

It wasn't just that it was clutch — they were down by three with time running out — but that it was unmistakably aggressive. He wanted that shot. That kind of confidence/intensity is something we rarely saw with Knox last year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 08, 2019, 10:44:35 AM
Spurs

PG: Dejounte Murray*
SG: DeMar DeRozan*
SF: Bryn Forbes*
PF: LaMarcus Aldridge*
C: Jakob Poeltl*

Bench: Marcus Morris, Rudy Gay, DeMarre Carroll, Derrick White, Patty Mills, Marco Belinelli, Lonnie Walker IV, Quinndary Weatherspoon, Davis Bertans, Quincy Pondexter, Keldon Johnson, Dante Cunningham, Donatas Motiejunas, Luka Samanic, Chimezie Metu


Take away Bertans
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Pharoah on July 08, 2019, 11:09:40 AM
The Knicks prized rookie struggled but their second round draft pick looked like the best player on either team in their loss to the Suns and I couldn't help but feel deja vu. This game included the early double-digit lead, third quarter crash and a furious fourth quarter comeback that fell short in overtime. It was quintessential Knicks basketball right down to a raw developmental lottery pick struggling and the lesser known draft pick shining. The sophomores looked the part of superior players on the floor but they all took a back seat to Ignas Brazdeikis in this one. Lastly, we got some signs of life from the bench pieces who are fighting for one last roster spot with the pro team or a Westchester contract to develop. So while it was discouraging to witness another loss, there were some good signs to takeaway from the game. Let's take a closer look:

RJ: Step off of the ledge, it's the second game of summer league. Let's not mince words RJ Barrett's shooting has been a bit of a train wreck and he turned the ball over a ton. But Summer League is about looking for the tools he can build on and utilize in the future. Barrett put up 8 points, 10 boards and 1 assist to 8 turnovers in his 32 minutes out there. RJ shot 3/15 from the field and 1/5 from three, not to mention going 1/4 from the free throw line. His shot is all out of sorts right now but his second field goal of the game came at the top of the key and flashed form that he should be able to build up from. He also didn't pick up the TO's just because of greedy play. Barrett flashed really nice court vision in spotting open players both in traffic and during fast breaks but his execution on the passes was just slightly off. This meant three or four turnovers that occurred when RJ had the idea but threw the pass off target. That's okay, between rust and the new environment, it's more important that the Maple Mamba is seeing those opportunities. I'd add though, that as the game wound down, the rookie started to press more for offense. That competitive streak may be a negative now, but if Barrett becomes the player we think he can be, then it will also lead to this kid being willing to step up in clutch situations.

Barrett also showed off his rebounding prowess. He came away with 10 boards and flashed the ability to grab a board then lead a fast break. That's a really promising way to get yourself going. Unfortunately, defensive rebounding and one stop at the end of regulation were about the only good signs for the kid defensively. Where I'm hopeful for his offensive growth, I'm a bit frustrated seeing him make fairly simple mistakes on the other end. RJ lets his feet get tangled at times and he struggles to get around screens. This means he's giving up a step to his man WAY too often. The good news is that Knox struggled mightily with his defense last year and has shown plenty of improvement already in summer league this year; but it took Knox an offseason to get there. We may be really frustrated watching Barrett defend this season if fundamentals like footwork are still on the agenda for his training (take a dance class on the side RJ, I promise it helps). That last stop in regulation is the bright spot though. Barrett locked in, got low and took contact without budging. His strength, size and competitive nature should translate to solid defense in time but there's a lot of work to be done.

Iggy: The star of the game was Ignas Brazdeikis with 30 points, 8 boards and 2 assists although he did have 5 TO's himself (one came after he dove for a loose ball without a timeout to call though). Iggy's efficiency scoring made it easy to forgive the TO's. He shot a red hot 11/19 from the field and 3/6 from three point land including a game tying three with less than 30 seconds on the clock. Brazdeikis just plays with an edge. The kid knows how to find open space on the floor, that was clear from game one but with the jumper falling everything else gets unlocked. Iggy hitting the J meant defenders had to stay tight on him and in those instances he would take his man to rim. Against bigger defenders, this led to blow by's. When smaller guys stayed in front of Iggy; he'd hit them with a spin or pivot step move and score over them. So the Knicks let him handle through pick and rolls a LOT and the results were great. Whether he's dribbling or going into his dribble, Iggy has patience and knows how to use ball fakes to misdirect his man before attacking the screen. It was the kind of performance where you start to revisit the depth chart and rotations in case this level of play is sustainable.

It's worth mentioning though that Iggy's defense was a mixed bag to me. He's a good defender that sticks to his man and puts in the effort but has athletic limitations on that end. Just as his tweener status gave him advantages scoring, you could see the reverse on the other end. Faster guys were able to get a step on him and bigger guys were able to score even with Ignas attached to their hip and trying to deny. He also was ineffective if he had to switch the screen man who was typically too big to keep off of the boards even on a miss. So it's not a perfect night, but there was a ton of potential on display from another potential second round gem.

Mitch: The Knicks first option on every play should just be to lob the ball at the rim...that's what it started to feel like watching Mitchell Robinson grab boards and slam anything the got into the air around the basket. Robinson put up 17 points, 9 boards and 2 blocks in his 30 minutes of play while going 7/8 from the field. He also shot a perfect 3/3 from the line which continues his improvement there which started in the second half of last season. Mitch is a menace, simple as that. When players get into the lane and Mitch is waiting, they virtually always have to dish the ball off or attempt a ball fake because Mitch is going to throw anything that gets near him. That said, this had some negative consequences attached. Mitch picked up 6 fouls including some unnecessary ones due to being overzealous. He also had 4 goal tends before I stopped counting and a couple of them weren't even close. So Mitch blocked a pair but also gave back points on goal tends. But the frantic motor sets a great tone defensively that ought to be more impactful with a rotation that plays better defense against the pick and roll.

Knox: Kevin Knox looks like an improved player but that kinda makes me disappointed in the end result on the box score. Knox posted 12 points, 4 boards and 1 assist to 3 TO's in his team leading 33 minutes of play. He went 4/10 from the field but an impressive 3/5 from three was the boost needed. The "still a teenager" continues to look like his jumper is ready for primetime although it wasn't as effective in the midrange. Behind the line though, all he has needed was a bit of space to deliver results and that floor stretching is going to be helpful. We never got the forays into the paint that Knox flashed last year and really showed improvement on last game though. He looks the part, a player ready to deliver on some of his potential but this was a game where he floated some. Kadeem Allen scored more on the same amount of attempts; Tyler Cavanaugh matched his scoring with less attempts in less time. This is all a bit harsh, but he's capable of having a MUCH larger impact, in fact he had a bigger impact last year in this same situation but with less developed skills. This might just be purposefully looking to let RJ and Iggy take the lead, but I'm a bit disappointed that there hasn't been at least a run of aggressive, "I'm taking over"
ball from Knox.

I need one more bit simply to praise his growth on defense. He's still a work in progress but his best moment of the night came when ESPN played his mic'd up reel. Here we could see Knox vocal and locked in on defense in a manner that just didn't seem to be there last year. He still has a lot to work on and build up, but the growth through these first two games is extremely promising.

Allen: This is a lot more like the Kadeem Allen I expect to see in summer league. Yes, he shot 3/10 which is bad but he also got to the line 6 times pumping his numbers to 13 points, 6 assists, 3 boards and 3 steals in 26 minutes of play. Take one iso-scorer off the court and replace them with a motion player like Iggy and suddenly Allen looks like the table setter we saw late last season. The young vet came in and found people, picked out the right players to attack and ensured that every starter got ample opportunity to score. On the down side, his 1/4 from three is especially bad because the looks were open in a close game but that's about my only complaint on offense. I truly believe that if he gets 5 more minutes, the Knicks win that game and some of the turnover numbers elsewhere come down. That's the impact of a real general being out there even if he's not the most offensively gifted or the focal point of the ball. Everything just flows better.

We also got the disruptive aspects of Allen's game back. The three steals aren't the only plays that Allen managed to muck up for Suns guards right at the top of the key. He was creating havoc through pressure. That said, Harper did get the step on him a bit more than I'd have liked but this was a huge step up from game one. Allen's getting back to the right defensive mindset and I feel bad for his next assignment.

Cavanaugh: Tyler Cavanaugh looked like a third year player in summer league who has seen and faced better. His physical attributes don't leap off the screen but he's been really productive in his minutes. In game one he flashed a mid range jumper and grabbed 3 boards in less than 5 minutes. Last night he pumped in 12 points, 4 boards and 2 assists in 19 minutes on 3/4 shooting and 1/1 from three. His only negative was 5/8 from the free throw line but 8 free throw attempts in 19 minutes is impossible to get very upset about. He plays smart, effective basketball and earned some props. I think he has place on an extended NBA roster, although ours is loaded with depth already so we're not a good fit. But he seems like he deserves a camp invite early on.

Wooten: It was with 3 points, 5 boards and 2 blocks that the legend of Kenny Wooten met its humble beginning. That's because one of those blocks was reminiscent of the good old days when a rookie Mitchell Robinson was volley ball spike something and we'd marvel at his hops. Wooten looked like the PF version of Mitch whenever he had an excuse to jump. He sports a long build with freakish athleticism and the same exact mad man motor that endeared Mitch to Knick fans before preseason even started. So in 12 minutes with a fairly pedestrian stat line Kenny Wooten raised my eyebrow. He won't be Mitch, might be a g-league project, but you can't teach that athletic package and few players come into the league with anything close to that motor. I'd keep an eye on him.

Hinton: Amir Hinton also flashed some good signs. He only played 8 minutes but managed 2/3 from the field for 5 points and 2 boards in that brief run plus a trip to the line for 1/2 FT's. It's nothing crazy, but he looked comfortable on the ball and seemed like a plus athlete. He barely got his feet wet but I'd like to see a bit more just to get an idea of where he's at among the developmental options for Westchester.

Peters, White, Smith: These guys didn't do enough with the limited time they were given to say much.

Floor Balance and Flow: Last time I got into the importance of patience with the kids and this time I want to highlight how much a good floor balance can be transformative for a team. Allonzo Trier was arguably the best Knick on the court game one and sat out game two but the ball moved a lot more freely. This meant a lot more passing to cutters and easy baskets but also a lot more TO's. Two players benefited especially from this shift toward more free flowing action; Ignas Brazdeikis got far more opportunity to create with the ball in hand and Allen got more opportunities to be a playmaker. Both of those guys looked great last night. But the added pressure to create also showed up in the TO counts for Iggy, RJ and Knox who are unironically two rookies and the second youngest sophomore in the league. So this is not in any way an indictment of Trier. It's about the give and take of different rotation make ups. With an additional iso-scoring option on the floor, the ball movement flattens out and less off ball motion occurs. That means lower TO totals but weaker spacing. Take that player off the court and the spacing improves. The ball will move a lot more nicely. But suddenly you don't have that pressure valve that keeps players from having to do more than they're comfortable with.

So why am I pointing out this dynamic? Because NBA rotations can look like a jigsaw puzzle, especially to us Knicks fans who have watched entire seasons where coaches couldn't figure out a good and balanced rotation. Fiz is loaded with players who have similar levels of talent but wildly varying skill sets and play types. He has the iso-scorers, the floor spacers, the pass first guys and the hard work players. Finding a way to balance playing time that both keeps these guys happy and fits together in a way that limits TO's but encourages free flowing ball movement is going to be a serious test for him. He has to do that while considering player development and growth as well. Then there's the wild card which is player ego's and personalities. This thing is wildly complicated but can be a lot of fun to evaluate and try to figure out. Focus on the fun and the experimenting at least early on, because finding that perfect balance is fleeting in a league where everyone scouts each other and makes adjustments. More importantly, we'll need to be mindful of these dynamics but also patient with Fiz for all of the reasons I've mentioned here.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 08, 2019, 11:14:57 AM
Question to ponder when judging future NBA drfats =

why didnt Brazdekis go higher?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 08, 2019, 11:16:25 AM
Quote from: elephant on July 08, 2019, 10:00:18 AM
Summer league doesn't mean shit. But that 3-point shot Iggy took near (and made) near the end of regulation deserves some attention.

It wasn't just that it was clutch — they were down by three with time running out — but that it was unmistakably aggressive. He wanted that shot. That kind of confidence/intensity is something we rarely saw with Knox last year.

....and Knox, looking unsure - misses same situational shot at end of OT.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 08, 2019, 11:18:08 AM
Quick note -

Barrett is NOT an NBA 2 guard at this point

I see an opening for Ellington, Trier or Dotson to start
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 08, 2019, 11:20:13 AM
Second best player yesterday was Cavanaugh (downgrade the impressive Mitch to 3 off the bonehead goaltending)
Title: Re: Projecting the Western Conf playoffs
Post by: bodiddley on July 08, 2019, 11:30:46 AM
1.Houston
2.Los Angeles L
3.Golden State
4.Los Angeles C
5.Denver
6.Utah
7. Portland
8. San Ant

I don't have a good sense of rosters yet.
Doubt HOU is #1 West.
But I think until proven otherwise, SAS and POR are in the TOP 8.

Basically Lakes take OKC's playoff spot.
If SCurry can't stay healthy, GSW could be in trouble.

Mavs could threaten.  Alot depends on KZ.
They just added Seth Scurry and Delon Wright (3/$29M much more than I'd expect, but I assume that's the MLE, and he's becoming a fairly solid backup PG).

Wolves, Kings & Pel should all be interesting.
I need to ascertain what they did this Summer.
But one of them could be at or above .500 and a playoff threat.

I like what UTA did.  Think they've been overrated for years.  But this could be a breakout year.  Conley a steady customer to balance and temper Donovan. 

DEN & UTA might have the best teams; but LAx2 and HOU have the star power.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 08, 2019, 11:40:03 AM
Mavs also add Marjanovic and a full year of Justin Jackson, who stroked it pretty good after coming from Sactown.

Freak Bro Kostas also arrives from Dayton

Cam Payne in summer league looking for a spot - as is kiwi Finn Delany.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on July 08, 2019, 11:40:19 AM
I'd switch the Clippers/Lakers and Denver/Golden State.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 08, 2019, 12:04:47 PM
Doc now gets his chance to prove he can win without a great haul of other team's talent.

Oh, wait......
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on July 08, 2019, 12:16:54 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 08, 2019, 09:46:53 AM
Darkhorse - Phoenix

Suns ceiling is 12th.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 08, 2019, 12:17:48 PM
You are picking them there?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on July 08, 2019, 12:17:58 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 08, 2019, 11:18:08 AM
Quick note -

Barrett is NOT an NBA 2 guard at this point

I see an opening for Ellington, Trier or Dotson to start

I've got Bullock and RJ pencilled in as starting wings.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 08, 2019, 12:19:16 PM
Sorry.  that's not my West order.

I just kept the 6 teams someone said were  a lock for the playoffs and added SAS and POR, without reordering.

It's too early to have a good idea which teams are what.
But I'm guessing LeBJ and AD miss some games and the team doesn't cohere quickly, and they're more of a 4 or 5 seed, than Top 3.

Maybe my early, early prediction:
1. DEN
2. LAC
3. UTA
4. HOU
5. LAL
6. POR
7. GSW
8. SAS

Minn
Dal
Okc
Sac

Nope
Memf
Phoeknix
Nope

I likely have UTA too high, but I'm buying in.  Their D should be fine and UTA has a good Home ad.  Jeff Green/Ed Davis is a vet PF tandem that could run into health or quality issues.  But Conley stabilizes; and Bog can shoot.  freeing up Don Mitch to do his thing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on July 08, 2019, 12:19:38 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 08, 2019, 12:17:48 PM
You are picking them there?

No, I'm picking them to finish 14th. But I think it's possible Minny collapses or Dallas has injuries and Phoenix scratches and claws their way all the way up to 12th in the conference. I guess I'm saying they're a "darkhorse" for 12th place. Not within 10 games of the playoffs, that's for damn sure.

Also, Dallas ain't going to the playoffs either. Love their coach and their top two dogs, but they have neither depth nor continuity.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on July 08, 2019, 12:20:42 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 08, 2019, 12:19:16 PM
Sorry.  that's not my West order.

I just kept the 6 teams someone said were  a lock for the playoffs and added SAS and POR, without reordering.

It's too early to have a good idea which teams are what.
But I'm guessing LeBJ and AD miss some games and the team doesn't cohere quickly, and they're more of a 4 or 5 seed, than Top 3.

Maybe my early, early prediction:
1. DEN
2. LAC
3. UTA
4. HOU
5. LAL
6. POR
7. GSW
8. SAS

Minn
Dal
Okc
Sac

Nope
Memf
Phoeknix
Nope

I likely have UTA too high, but I'm buying in.  Their D should be fine and UTA has a good Home ad.  Jeff Green/Ed Davis is a vet PF tandem that could run into health or quality issues.  But Conley stabilizes; and Bog can shoot.  freeing up Don Mitch to do his thing.

Shove Houston to 2nd, Sacto to 9th, and flip Spurs and GSW and I'm with you BoD.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 08, 2019, 12:23:13 PM
Lakers bring much of the band back

I won't follow them, root for them after Ball departure -

but I have them #1 in West at this point.
Title: PHAROAH--The Return Of The Prodigal Son
Post by: chipstern on July 08, 2019, 12:44:55 PM
Quote from: Pharoah on July 08, 2019, 11:09:40 AM
The Knicks prized rookie struggled but their second round draft pick looked like the best player on either team in their loss to the Suns and I couldn't help but feel deja vu. This game included the early double-digit lead, third quarter crash and a furious fourth quarter comeback that fell short in overtime. It was quintessential Knicks basketball right down to a raw developmental lottery pick struggling and the lesser known draft pick shining. The sophomores looked the part of superior players on the floor but they all took a back seat to Ignas Brazdeikis in this one. Lastly, we got some signs of life from the bench pieces who are fighting for one last roster spot with the pro team or a Westchester contract to develop. So while it was discouraging to witness another loss, there were some good signs to takeaway from the game. Let's take a closer look:

RJ: Step off of the ledge, it's the second game of summer league. Let's not mince words RJ Barrett's shooting has been a bit of a train wreck and he turned the ball over a ton. But Summer League is about looking for the tools he can build on and utilize in the future. Barrett put up 8 points, 10 boards and 1 assist to 8 turnovers in his 32 minutes out there. RJ shot 3/15 from the field and 1/5 from three, not to mention going 1/4 from the free throw line. His shot is all out of sorts right now but his second field goal of the game came at the top of the key and flashed form that he should be able to build up from. He also didn't pick up the TO's just because of greedy play. Barrett flashed really nice court vision in spotting open players both in traffic and during fast breaks but his execution on the passes was just slightly off. This meant three or four turnovers that occurred when RJ had the idea but threw the pass off target. That's okay, between rust and the new environment, it's more important that the Maple Mamba is seeing those opportunities. I'd add though, that as the game wound down, the rookie started to press more for offense. That competitive streak may be a negative now, but if Barrett becomes the player we think he can be, then it will also lead to this kid being willing to step up in clutch situations.

Barrett also showed off his rebounding prowess. He came away with 10 boards and flashed the ability to grab a board then lead a fast break. That's a really promising way to get yourself going. Unfortunately, defensive rebounding and one stop at the end of regulation were about the only good signs for the kid defensively. Where I'm hopeful for his offensive growth, I'm a bit frustrated seeing him make fairly simple mistakes on the other end. RJ lets his feet get tangled at times and he struggles to get around screens. This means he's giving up a step to his man WAY too often. The good news is that Knox struggled mightily with his defense last year and has shown plenty of improvement already in summer league this year; but it took Knox an offseason to get there. We may be really frustrated watching Barrett defend this season if fundamentals like footwork are still on the agenda for his training (take a dance class on the side RJ, I promise it helps). That last stop in regulation is the bright spot though. Barrett locked in, got low and took contact without budging. His strength, size and competitive nature should translate to solid defense in time but there's a lot of work to be done.

Iggy: The star of the game was Ignas Brazdeikis with 30 points, 8 boards and 2 assists although he did have 5 TO's himself (one came after he dove for a loose ball without a timeout to call though). Iggy's efficiency scoring made it easy to forgive the TO's. He shot a red hot 11/19 from the field and 3/6 from three point land including a game tying three with less than 30 seconds on the clock. Brazdeikis just plays with an edge. The kid knows how to find open space on the floor, that was clear from game one but with the jumper falling everything else gets unlocked. Iggy hitting the J meant defenders had to stay tight on him and in those instances he would take his man to rim. Against bigger defenders, this led to blow by's. When smaller guys stayed in front of Iggy; he'd hit them with a spin or pivot step move and score over them. So the Knicks let him handle through pick and rolls a LOT and the results were great. Whether he's dribbling or going into his dribble, Iggy has patience and knows how to use ball fakes to misdirect his man before attacking the screen. It was the kind of performance where you start to revisit the depth chart and rotations in case this level of play is sustainable.

It's worth mentioning though that Iggy's defense was a mixed bag to me. He's a good defender that sticks to his man and puts in the effort but has athletic limitations on that end. Just as his tweener status gave him advantages scoring, you could see the reverse on the other end. Faster guys were able to get a step on him and bigger guys were able to score even with Ignas attached to their hip and trying to deny. He also was ineffective if he had to switch the screen man who was typically too big to keep off of the boards even on a miss. So it's not a perfect night, but there was a ton of potential on display from another potential second round gem.

Mitch: The Knicks first option on every play should just be to lob the ball at the rim...that's what it started to feel like watching Mitchell Robinson grab boards and slam anything the got into the air around the basket. Robinson put up 17 points, 9 boards and 2 blocks in his 30 minutes of play while going 7/8 from the field. He also shot a perfect 3/3 from the line which continues his improvement there which started in the second half of last season. Mitch is a menace, simple as that. When players get into the lane and Mitch is waiting, they virtually always have to dish the ball off or attempt a ball fake because Mitch is going to throw anything that gets near him. That said, this had some negative consequences attached. Mitch picked up 6 fouls including some unnecessary ones due to being overzealous. He also had 4 goal tends before I stopped counting and a couple of them weren't even close. So Mitch blocked a pair but also gave back points on goal tends. But the frantic motor sets a great tone defensively that ought to be more impactful with a rotation that plays better defense against the pick and roll.

Knox: Kevin Knox looks like an improved player but that kinda makes me disappointed in the end result on the box score. Knox posted 12 points, 4 boards and 1 assist to 3 TO's in his team leading 33 minutes of play. He went 4/10 from the field but an impressive 3/5 from three was the boost needed. The "still a teenager" continues to look like his jumper is ready for primetime although it wasn't as effective in the midrange. Behind the line though, all he has needed was a bit of space to deliver results and that floor stretching is going to be helpful. We never got the forays into the paint that Knox flashed last year and really showed improvement on last game though. He looks the part, a player ready to deliver on some of his potential but this was a game where he floated some. Kadeem Allen scored more on the same amount of attempts; Tyler Cavanaugh matched his scoring with less attempts in less time. This is all a bit harsh, but he's capable of having a MUCH larger impact, in fact he had a bigger impact last year in this same situation but with less developed skills. This might just be purposefully looking to let RJ and Iggy take the lead, but I'm a bit disappointed that there hasn't been at least a run of aggressive, "I'm taking over" ball from Knox.

I need one more bit simply to praise his growth on defense. He's still a work in progress but his best moment of the night came when ESPN played his mic'd up reel. Here we could see Knox vocal and locked in on defense in a manner that just didn't seem to be there last year. He still has a lot to work on and build up, but the growth through these first two games is extremely promising.

Allen: This is a lot more like the Kadeem Allen I expect to see in summer league. Yes, he shot 3/10 which is bad but he also got to the line 6 times pumping his numbers to 13 points, 6 assists, 3 boards and 3 steals in 26 minutes of play. Take one iso-scorer off the court and replace them with a motion player like Iggy and suddenly Allen looks like the table setter we saw late last season. The young vet came in and found people, picked out the right players to attack and ensured that every starter got ample opportunity to score. On the down side, his 1/4 from three is especially bad because the looks were open in a close game but that's about my only complaint on offense. I truly believe that if he gets 5 more minutes, the Knicks win that game and some of the turnover numbers elsewhere come down. That's the impact of a real general being out there even if he's not the most offensively gifted or the focal point of the ball. Everything just flows better.

We also got the disruptive aspects of Allen's game back. The three steals aren't the only plays that Allen managed to muck up for Suns guards right at the top of the key. He was creating havoc through pressure. That said, Harper did get the step on him a bit more than I'd have liked but this was a huge step up from game one. Allen's getting back to the right defensive mindset and I feel bad for his next assignment.

Cavanaugh: Tyler Cavanaugh looked like a third year player in summer league who has seen and faced better. His physical attributes don't leap off the screen but he's been really productive in his minutes. In game one he flashed a mid range jumper and grabbed 3 boards in less than 5 minutes. Last night he pumped in 12 points, 4 boards and 2 assists in 19 minutes on 3/4 shooting and 1/1 from three. His only negative was 5/8 from the free throw line but 8 free throw attempts in 19 minutes is impossible to get very upset about. He plays smart, effective basketball and earned some props. I think he has place on an extended NBA roster, although ours is loaded with depth already so we're not a good fit. But he seems like he deserves a camp invite early on.

Wooten: It was with 3 points, 5 boards and 2 blocks that the legend of Kenny Wooten met its humble beginning. That's because one of those blocks was reminiscent of the good old days when a rookie Mitchell Robinson was volley ball spike something and we'd marvel at his hops. Wooten looked like the PF version of Mitch whenever he had an excuse to jump. He sports a long build with freakish athleticism and the same exact mad man motor that endeared Mitch to Knick fans before preseason even started. So in 12 minutes with a fairly pedestrian stat line Kenny Wooten raised my eyebrow. He won't be Mitch, might be a g-league project, but you can't teach that athletic package and few players come into the league with anything close to that motor. I'd keep an eye on him.

Hinton: Amir Hinton also flashed some good signs. He only played 8 minutes but managed 2/3 from the field for 5 points and 2 boards in that brief run plus a trip to the line for 1/2 FT's. It's nothing crazy, but he looked comfortable on the ball and seemed like a plus athlete. He barely got his feet wet but I'd like to see a bit more just to get an idea of where he's at among the developmental options for Westchester.

Peters, White, Smith: These guys didn't do enough with the limited time they were given to say much.

Floor Balance and Flow: Last time I got into the importance of patience with the kids and this time I want to highlight how much a good floor balance can be transformative for a team. Allonzo Trier was arguably the best Knick on the court game one and sat out game two but the ball moved a lot more freely. This meant a lot more passing to cutters and easy baskets but also a lot more TO's. Two players benefited especially from this shift toward more free flowing action; Ignas Brazdeikis got far more opportunity to create with the ball in hand and Allen got more opportunities to be a playmaker. Both of those guys looked great last night. But the added pressure to create also showed up in the TO counts for Iggy, RJ and Knox who are unironically two
rookies and the second youngest sophomore in the league. So this is not in any way an indictment of Trier. It's about the give and take of different rotation make ups. With an additional iso-scoring option on the floor, the ball movement flattens out and less off ball motion occurs. That means lower TO totals but weaker spacing. Take that player off the court and the spacing improves. The ball will move a lot more nicely. But suddenly you don't have that pressure valve that keeps players from having to do more than they're comfortable with.

So why am I pointing out this dynamic? Because NBA rotations can look like a jigsaw puzzle, especially to us Knicks fans who have watched entire seasons where coaches couldn't figure out a good and balanced rotation. Fiz is loaded with players who have similar levels of talent but wildly varying skill sets and play types. He has the iso-scorers, the floor spacers, the pass first guys and the hard work players. Finding a way to balance playing time that both keeps these guys happy and fits together in a way that limits TO's but encourages free flowing ball movement is going to be a serious test for him. He has to do that while considering player development and growth as well. Then there's the wild card which is player ego's and personalities. This thing is wildly complicated but can be a lot of fun to evaluate and try to figure out. Focus on the fun and the experimenting at least early on, because finding that perfect balance is fleeting in a league where everyone scouts each other and makes adjustments. More importantly, we'll need to be mindful of these dynamics but also patient with Fiz for all of the reasons I've mentioned here.

Missed y'all, Brother Pharoah. 

Thrilled to be able to read you anew.

Most balanced, fair-minded informed analysis, post after post after post. 

I always learn something.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 08, 2019, 12:47:51 PM
Learn the quote function, newbie ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 08, 2019, 12:51:59 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 08, 2019, 12:47:51 PM
Learn the quote function, newbie ...

(https://www.biography.com/.image/ar_1:1%2Cc_fill%2Ccs_srgb%2Cg_face%2Cq_auto:good%2Cw_300/MTE5NTU2MzE2MzkxNzY5NjEx/king-tut-9512446-1-402.jpg)

I knew for a Biblical Certainty THAT WOULD RING YOUR BELL. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 08, 2019, 01:29:48 PM
Welcome back Chip for what we hope will be the beginning of Fizdale’s virtuoso year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 08, 2019, 01:49:56 PM
Sooooo disturbing

https://twitter.com/mellentuck/status/1148269841448656896
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 08, 2019, 02:20:18 PM
Sounds like a personal problem. Maybe take it up with your therapist.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on July 08, 2019, 02:34:03 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 08, 2019, 12:04:47 PM
Doc now gets his chance to prove he can win without a great haul of other team's talent.

Oh, wait......

Doc did that last year. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 08, 2019, 02:48:27 PM
I’d take a flyer on Tre Lyles. He’s a skilled big who fits our timeline. The Grant to Denver trade cut him free.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 08, 2019, 03:09:28 PM
Trey has looked NBA marginal to me, but I'd be up for a reclamation  if we didn't just sign 3 PF's already.

I'd be interested in Juancho.

I like the Jer Grant pickup for DEN.
Nice active player, great backup for Milsap, allowing their vet to rest more.  [auto-correct wanted to change Milsap to Mishap -- good nickname there]
Grant a better player than Wil.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on July 08, 2019, 03:23:34 PM
Y'all rating Denver too high.   The West got better.   They won't take anyone by surprise.   They're young.

They will have a hard time repeating wins vs the LA teams this year.

Houston is still Houston.   They may start slow again, but they figure it out.  Winning is in their DNA.  Top 3 team.

LeBron is switching to a new position (PG) and has AD and Boogie and Kuzma and Danny Green to feed.  Top 3 team.

Golden State and the Clippers will vie for the other Top 3 team status.  Golden State still has talent.  Know how to win. Won't fall to 7/8.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 08, 2019, 03:32:41 PM
I don't think GS will overly worry about W's early on.  Take some losses instead of wearing Scurry down too much.  Try to stay healthy, and hope Klay comes back and is good for the playoffs.
They have to work in Tangelo and WCS and others.
Things could be a bit rocky.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 08, 2019, 03:36:34 PM
Knix starting Wings could be Trier & Knox ....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 08, 2019, 03:57:35 PM
K-squared better pick up his game.....

LOOKS more fit, surely.
Title: Russbrook
Post by: Kam on July 08, 2019, 05:27:01 PM
Likes Miami.   Dragic and Waiters for Russ?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on July 08, 2019, 05:33:08 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 08, 2019, 03:36:34 PM
Knix starting Wings could be Trier & Knox ....

Then you gotta start a PG who can defend.

Payton, DSJ
Trier, Barrett
Knox, Iggy
Randle, Portis, Gibson
Mitch, Portis


I don't know why we signed the other guys.  Or why we haven't traded Frank yet.   Injury insurance i guess.   One of Bullock/Ellington won't play.    They'll be in the honorary Courtney Lee role.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 08, 2019, 07:11:34 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 08, 2019, 01:29:48 PM
Welcome back Chip for what we hope will be the beginning of Fizdale’s virtuoso year.

In tune with what you have been posting. 

(https://theknickswall.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/D-6yG9aU0AYDlG3.jpg)
Title: Re: Russbrook
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 08, 2019, 08:36:59 PM
Quote from: Kam on July 08, 2019, 05:27:01 PM
Likes Miami.   Dragic and Waiters for Russ?

Has to be a slew of picks in that offer
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 08, 2019, 09:05:24 PM
Jabari Parker to the very interesting HAWKS.  2-13
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 08, 2019, 09:18:29 PM
Mavs get DeLon Wright.  3-29.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 08, 2019, 09:30:18 PM
Knicks attending free agent workout of Monta Ellis and....................





AMARE STOUDEMIRE!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on July 09, 2019, 12:21:17 AM
Quote from: Kam on July 08, 2019, 03:23:34 PM
Y'all rating Denver too high.   The West got better.   They won't take anyone by surprise.   They're young.

They will have a hard time repeating wins vs the LA teams this year.

Houston is still Houston.   They may start slow again, but they figure it out.  Winning is in their DNA.  Top 3 team.

LeBron is switching to a new position (PG) and has AD and Boogie and Kuzma and Danny Green to feed.  Top 3 team.

Golden State and the Clippers will vie for the other Top 3 team status.  Golden State still has talent.  Know how to win. Won't fall to 7/8.

I just don't see the Lakers being a great regular season team. Too much change, too much rest needed, too many ill-fitting pieces.

Denver has continuity, coaching, and incredible depth. I'll take the Lakers over them in a playoff series, but the Nuggets have the look of a #1 or #2 seed.

Houston is going to trade Iman Shumpert for Iguodala and I can see them as the #1 seed if health co-operates.
Title: Draymond Green and Giannis Attentionkmartshoppers
Post by: Kam on July 09, 2019, 01:57:28 AM
Do we get Draymond Green to go with Randle and Mitch?
Either next summer when he is an unrestricted Free Agent or at the next trade deadline?
We could trade for him this season or next summer sign and trade for him with Portis and some of our many 8mil contracts.
Or just sign him outright to a max and give the DUBS nothing.  Do they even want anything of ours?
The downside of his career looms at age 30 when we would be getting him, but we would be interesting/relevant.
Dray could then recruit Giannis the following summer!  NYC has Greeks and Nigerians the theory goes.  Perfect for Mr A.
We would have to renounce Randle or pick up his option to trade him for a signed&traded Giannis
like how D'angelo got to the Warriors.
A pipe-dream maybe... but that duo would rival anyone in Brooklyn or LA. 
Would really depend on what assets we manage to hold onto.
Maybe get a veteran PG like an aging Kyle Lowry to take a mid-level deal

July 2021:

Mitch
Giannis/Iggy
Draymond/Knox
RJ
Lowry


PS.  Welcome back Chipstern!
PPS: How's Nagel?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on July 09, 2019, 02:40:42 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on July 09, 2019, 12:21:17 AM
Quote from: Kam on July 08, 2019, 03:23:34 PM
Y'all rating Denver too high.   The West got better.   They won't take anyone by surprise.   They're young.

They will have a hard time repeating wins vs the LA teams this year.

Houston is still Houston.   They may start slow again, but they figure it out.  Winning is in their DNA.  Top 3 team.

LeBron is switching to a new position (PG) and has AD and Boogie and Kuzma and Danny Green to feed.  Top 3 team.

Golden State and the Clippers will vie for the other Top 3 team status.  Golden State still has talent.  Know how to win. Won't fall to 7/8.

I just don't see the Lakers being a great regular season team. Too much change, too much rest needed, too many ill-fitting pieces.

Denver has continuity, coaching, and incredible depth. I'll take the Lakers over them in a playoff series, but the Nuggets have the look of a #1 or #2 seed.

Houston is going to trade Iman Shumpert for Iguodala and I can see them as the #1 seed if health co-operates.

OK.... so maybe the West breaks down something like this


Top 2 teams:

Hou/Den

Next two teams:


LAC/LAL

Next 4 teams:

Some combo of Utah, Portland, San Ant, Warriors

5. ?
6. ?
7. ?
8. ?

Minnesota looking in from the outside
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 09, 2019, 03:28:59 AM
We seem to have signed everyone but Bullock.
Title: Re: Draymond Green and Giannis Attentionkmartshoppers
Post by: lesterluv on July 09, 2019, 09:43:05 AM
Quote from: Kam on July 09, 2019, 01:57:28 AM
Do we get Draymond Green to go with Randle and Mitch?
Either next summer when he is an unrestricted Free Agent or at the next trade deadline?

And for once in a very blue moon...what Kam said!



*** if only to beat some motor and IQ into Kevin Knox on the off chance K2 is still in the league at that point
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on July 09, 2019, 09:45:27 AM
If I told you the Knicks make the playoffs next year without making a trade, what would you have assumed had happened?

- 8th seed only required <40 wins
- Randle put up last year's numbers, maybe with a touch more efficiency from range
- Mitch led the league blocked shots/altered, and played well enough otherwise to justify starter minutes
- Bullock shot 40% from range while taking on the main defensive perimeter assignment every night
- RJ is at worst second in ROY voting, shot better than 40%, wasn't a typical 19-year-old disaster on D
- Portis accepted his role as a bench scoring machine
and most of all
- DSJ made a DeAaron Fox type leap and was in the mix for MIP, and one of Knox/Trier/Ntilikina joined him in the MIP conversation

I think none of those are individually infeasible, but it would take luck beyond what I've ever seen in a Knicks team for all those things to happen. If even two of the Mitch/RJ/DSJ scenarios happen, I'll consider the season an unqualified success.
Title: Re: Draymond Green and Giannis Attentionkmartshoppers
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 09, 2019, 09:53:49 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on July 09, 2019, 09:43:05 AM
Quote from: Kam on July 09, 2019, 01:57:28 AM
Do we get Draymond Green to go with Randle and Mitch?
Either next summer when he is an unrestricted Free Agent or at the next trade deadline?

And for once in a very blue moon...what Kam said!



*** if only to beat some motor and IQ into Kevin Knox on the off chance K2 is still in the league at that point

Pass.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on July 09, 2019, 10:56:18 AM
I'm projecting Lakers at the top. I just think that Davis is that good. Not a typical star; he's extraordinary. And now he's playing with LBJ and a strong supporting cast.

I'm just realizing that for the first time in years, I can watch Golden State and pull for them. That should be pretty fucking cool.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on July 09, 2019, 12:13:26 PM
Think totally dependent on LBJ aging status... he's damn near immortal by NBA standards, and if healthy, nobody, not Kawhi, not Giannis, not anybody, can pull a team like he can, but sooner or later father time has to kick in, maybe started to last year ...
Title: Re: Draymond Green and Giannis Attentionkmartshoppers
Post by: lesterluv on July 09, 2019, 12:45:43 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 09, 2019, 09:53:49 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on July 09, 2019, 09:43:05 AM
Quote from: Kam on July 09, 2019, 01:57:28 AM
Do we get Draymond Green to go with Randle and Mitch?
Either next summer when he is an unrestricted Free Agent or at the next trade deadline?

And for once in a very blue moon...what Kam said!



*** if only to beat some motor and IQ into Kevin Knox on the off chance K2 is still in the league at that point

Pass.

Don't.

http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=27128625 (http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=27128625)
Title: Someone must win
Post by: Kam on July 09, 2019, 01:39:26 PM
The 0-2 Vegas Raptors
                                     vs.
The 0-2 Vegas Knicks

Tonight!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 09, 2019, 02:17:17 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on July 09, 2019, 12:13:26 PM
Think totally dependent on LBJ aging status... he's damn near immortal by NBA standards, and if healthy, nobody, not Kawhi, not Giannis, not anybody, can pull a team like he can, but sooner or later father time has to kick in, maybe started to last year ...

I think we could see 85% LBJ this year.....

and they will still do quite well

Take a look at the updated roster

And of course you have the Frank Vogel effect
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 09, 2019, 03:37:06 PM
They could start Avery Bradley and Danny Green with their monster frontcourt.

I’d like to beat them when we play them & I'm glad the Knicks are not in the west.

Philly & Toronto switched places in my mind. Boston will be interesting. I hope they Keep Tacko. Scratch that. I hope they cut him and we pick him up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 09, 2019, 04:43:38 PM
Ignas has a little echo of Thunder Dan Majerle in him. He should earn himself some burn.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 09, 2019, 05:29:34 PM
http://dailyknicks.com/2019/07/09/knicks-free-agency-rumors-marcus-morris-interest-reggie-bullock-new-contract/ (http://dailyknicks.com/2019/07/09/knicks-free-agency-rumors-marcus-morris-interest-reggie-bullock-new-contract/)

Interesting.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on July 09, 2019, 06:59:55 PM
Crazy shit!

But I like it. My hope is to see 5 power forwards on the floor at the same time. You know, lead the way in innovative basketball.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on July 09, 2019, 10:40:06 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on July 07, 2019, 12:44:28 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 06, 2019, 07:55:13 PM
Marcus Morris 2-20 to Spurs

Deal of the summer.

...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on July 09, 2019, 11:01:46 PM
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/a-better-way-to-evaluate-nba-defense/

Quote
We’ve been obsessed with this opponents’ shooting data for a while, in part because it sometimes seemed to track closely with players who had stronger or weaker defensive reputations than you would infer from other advanced statistics such as Real Plus-Minus.

Quote
[DRAYMOND] does get at one essential discovery we made in playing around with the opponents’ shooting data: the idea of minimizing openness. The main goal of shooting defense, especially in today’s spacing-centric, ball-movement-forward offensive era, is really to minimize the chance of an open shot.

#2 on last year's list:

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/carmelo/mitchell-robinson/
Title: Someone must win
Post by: carlos123 on July 10, 2019, 12:37:25 AM
Quote from: Kam on July 09, 2019, 01:39:26 PM
The 0-2 Vegas Raptors
                                     vs.
The 0-2 Vegas Knicks

Tonight!

And someone must lose. You know who.

Awaiting Pharoah’s analysis.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 10, 2019, 02:46:40 AM
Good thing we signed some vets.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 10, 2019, 03:40:11 AM
Porzingis' name came up a bunch on that DRAYMOND rating.

And Knox didn't rate as badly as on other measures.  Sure he's still down around other weak defenders such as Collison, ETwuan, Kennard.  But also right behind Dotson, and ahead of Rubio and Portis.

Weird if the Knix are poaching another PF.
Portis might be playing SG by the time things have sorted out . . .

Seems Bullock failed his physical, or at least there were issues.
I'm not too keen on Bullock or Ellington.

But PF's, can't have enough of them in the modern game ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 10, 2019, 03:42:43 AM
Yikes, GSW waived Livingston.
He only had $2M guaranteed on a $7.6M ending deal.  They stretched that over 3 seasons to squeeze under the tax line.  Guess they don't planning on adding anyone else.  Not sure if they were avoiding the repeater tax or not (I'm guessing Yes).

Livingston was a great bench player during their dynasty run.  He slowed up a fair amount last year.  But a very smart player.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 10, 2019, 07:58:03 AM
You don't hear much about SACto.
Seems they signed Dedmon walking for 3/$40M.
Ariza for 2/$25M
Rich Holmes 2/$10M
Cory Joe 3/$37M

Seems like a fair amount of money for essentially 4 backups, even if one winds up starting.  They kept the deals short, as is the trend.  And those are solid bench players.

De'Aaron Fox - Corey Joe - Yogi Ferrell   
Buddy Hield   - Bogdan Bogdanovic
Harrison Barnes   - Trevor Ariza  - Troy Williams
Marvin Bagley    -  Rich Holmes - Nemanja Bjelica
Dedmon  - Giles

Well they added depth and vet backups/mentors.
They have to hope their young core of Fox & Friends takes off in the next few years.  Hield has become solid.  Bagley looks potent.
Barnes is Mr. Okay.  A lot is riding on the development of Fox.
They should be able to finish at or above .500 and compete for the 8th spot.  45 W's isn't out of the question.  39-43 last year. West has beefed up, but now SAC has a deep team.

I never understand why Rich Holmes and Ed Davis get so little.
They are solid hard-working Bigs who screen, board, mix it up, while defending and able to score efficiently inside.  Value guys in my book.  Would take either on my team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on July 10, 2019, 10:12:36 AM
Like us, they may have too many guys expecting minutes. Except their guys are better.

I think Bjelica plays more than Chaun. But Harry Barnes needs time at the 4 too. Going to be a squeeze for minutes when everyone's healthy.

The coaching change is odd, but Luke Walton has had good results on non-Lebron teams.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 10, 2019, 12:08:03 PM
Actually I wasn't sure Bjelica was still there.
Yeah, slot him in at the backup 4.

Rich Holmes might play mostly backup C.
I'm sorta hoping he forces his way into C minutes, and Giles gets lost in the mix, and we pick him up somehow.
In PHX, Holmes seemed like a redundant addition and he demanded minutes.  Guy hustles.  Looks like he got into another crowded rotation.

It's unusual to have a young starting lineup and then fill out a vet bench.  We'll see how it goes.  Depth is always nice, but is does look crowded.
Title: One thing that already will translate to the NBA game
Post by: Kam on July 10, 2019, 03:48:40 PM
Is Iggy to Mitchell for easy buckets.   Iggy can pass and has an instant rapport with Mitch. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 10, 2019, 04:35:49 PM
More minutes

Braz or Robinson?

Braz or Frank?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on July 10, 2019, 04:51:36 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 10, 2019, 04:35:49 PM
More minutes

Braz or Robinson?

Braz or Frank?

Mitchell's minutes > Braz's minutes >>>>>>>>  Frank's minutes

Frank gotta go back to the French League.  He's french toast.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 10, 2019, 05:14:04 PM
Vlade  the Impaler

Gettin it done
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on July 10, 2019, 05:19:17 PM
?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on July 10, 2019, 07:21:21 PM
Feels way too early to talk about Braz's minutes. We've never seen him play against the big boys.

That said, I thought Barrett was moving beautifully last game. Really gave a glimpse of something.
Title: Chico's Mysteries
Post by: carlos123 on July 10, 2019, 08:57:59 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on July 10, 2019, 05:19:17 PM
?

Chico can be mysterious some times. Maybe he refers to this: https://www.nba.com/kings/news/kings-sign-justin-james (ftp://www.nba.com/kings/news/kings-sign-justin-james)

But most likely it's this: https://www.sacbee.com/sports/nba/sacramento-kings/article232461697.html (ftp://www.sacbee.com/sports/nba/sacramento-kings/article232461697.html)

Fredette’s NBA dreams started and ended in Sac:
‘No one is more frustrated than Jimmer’
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 11, 2019, 12:34:49 AM
heh

nice links
Title: Happy to oblige
Post by: carlos123 on July 11, 2019, 12:57:25 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 11, 2019, 12:34:49 AM
heh

nice links

See? I’m a nice guy 😀
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 11, 2019, 04:07:58 AM
 That was more like it. Maybe they’re not all total busts even for summer leaguers.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 11, 2019, 05:21:56 AM
Uber a 2/$30M to stay in PHX.
Seems he got a lot on a short deal. 
Think Suns should have tried to start him at less ($12M) and locked him up for longer (4 years).

Celts gave up on Yabusele.  I saw him rampage in China and said he wasn't an NBA player.  I assume somebody will pick him up at the min and he'll languish on somebody's bench.  Maybe he needs to watch Glenn Davis vids.  Or get in better shape.  I don't think he'll get too many 2nd chances, so better pick a landing spot carefully.  Maybe WAS or DET.

BOS opens a roster spot for Tacko Fallguy if they want him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 11, 2019, 05:26:30 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 11, 2019, 04:07:58 AM
That was more like it. Maybe they’re not all total busts even for summer leaguers.

Probably helps that i never heard of anyone on The Lakes Summer team.  But looks like the Knix yute were in a groove.  The Kadeem Team!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 11, 2019, 12:53:25 PM
Knix Summer team with same record as Team China!

Quote
The Chinese (1-2) lost their first two games in Las Vegas — they fell by 41 points to Miami on Friday, and looked much better in a 17-point loss to Sacramento on Saturday. They trailed by six in the opening minutes against Charlotte on Monday, then took the lead late in the first quarter and held it the rest of the way.

“We’re still improving a lot,” Li said. “We improved a lot when we came here. The first game we weren’t ready for the physical game, the fast game. The second game, on a back to back, we started realizing some things.”

The players China brought to Las Vegas represent the bulk of what will be the nation’s World Cup roster. Longtime NBA player Yi Jianlian is expected to play in the World Cup, and he’s not playing in Las Vegas because of an injury. Guo Ailun, one of the more talented Chinese players, didn’t play against Miami, scored 20 points against Sacramento and had 12 more in the win over the Hornets.

“The intensity of the game is really high in the summer league,” Guo said through a translator before Monday’s game. “It’s much stronger than what is in China. ... The intensity, the pace, it’s really a challenge.”

A lack of D and getting after it in China.
Though they see the energy that the American imports play with in China.  In G-League guys are competing for NBA $$.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 11, 2019, 10:59:41 PM
OKC has become interesting...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 11, 2019, 11:05:12 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 11, 2019, 05:26:30 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 11, 2019, 04:07:58 AM
That was more like it. Maybe they’re not all total busts even for summer leaguers.

Probably helps that i never heard of anyone on The Lakes Summer team.  But looks like the Knix yute were in a groove.  The Kadeem Team!

Christ - you aint kiddin

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/teams/Los-Angeles-Lakers/13/Rosters/Summer_League
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on July 11, 2019, 11:16:38 PM
Indeed, that's not a bad little Thunder team....
Title: How to self-destroy
Post by: carlos123 on July 12, 2019, 12:10:39 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on July 11, 2019, 11:16:38 PM
Indeed, that's not a bad little Thunder team....

Yeah, it starts by being cheap and let go of the Beard to save some money. Can you imagine what woulda been if they kept all three? Almost as self-destructive as you-know-who.

Is Houston now the favorite with Russ instead of Paul?
Title: CP3
Post by: Kam on July 12, 2019, 12:30:07 AM
Will be moved again. You traded Russ because he is 30 and you're rebuilding.  You don't swap a 30 yr old for a 34 yr old and call it a day. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 12, 2019, 01:57:49 AM
Who’s taking Chris at this point?

Made it to Vegas for summer league games today. Celtics were fun. Both Williams bigs looked good. Robert was the dominant player vs the Grizz. Tacko can play. He’ll be ok in a year. They have a guy who shoots his free throws underhanded. It was pretty cool to watch.

Welcome Marcus Morris.

Knockout rounds tomorrow
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 12, 2019, 03:02:15 AM
Very interesting.
The Rockettes always make Big Moves.
It seemed the CP3/Harden dynamic wasn't reparable.
I thought Dantmanbee did a good job of separating them as much as possible to let each guy do his own on-ball thing.
CP3 is kind of a jerk, but I'd be annoyed too standing around watching a guy pound and drain the shot clock every possession.  Even if he was able to score like a machine.  Just boring stuff when you're out there.

OKC will try to move Paul.  MIA is the early chatter.

I feel bad about poaching Morris, when we don't need him.
SAS not only lost out on a solid player, but they moved Bertans to have the space to sign Morris.  So they lost out on two players.  And Knix bumble in and pickpocket them.  I can understand Morris wanting another $5M, but it all seems rather seedy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on July 12, 2019, 10:04:05 AM
CP is fading rapidly, big plus for rocks. draft choices meh.
Title: Re: CP3
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 12, 2019, 10:27:08 AM
Quote from: Kam on July 12, 2019, 12:30:07 AM
Will be moved again. You traded Russ because he is 30 and you're rebuilding.  You don't swap a 30 yr old for a 34 yr old and call it a day.

Looking like Miami

They can take Dragic and a pick - then move Dragic for more picks

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 12, 2019, 10:28:19 AM
The Chris Paul contract was ridiculous from the start.  Too old to give a 4 year contract to.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 12, 2019, 10:28:39 AM
Felt bad about Morris?

Come on!

Spurs just move on and sign Trey Lyles.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 12, 2019, 10:53:05 AM
I'd rather have Bertans than Trey Lyles.

I might prefer Bert over Morris, but depends on your team construct and cost.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on July 12, 2019, 11:04:45 AM
So right now the Knicks have some 14 players with contracts who expect to see real minutes.

How is that going to work? How do you avoid bitterness and resentment?

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on July 12, 2019, 11:29:42 AM
What are you worried about? Føkwhale is a proven master. We got the best in the business. I'm sure he'll sit $105 mil in PF's cuz he's #gottodevelop some G-Leaguer he called up the day before and everybody will be happylappy.

*Oh wait, that was last year's LONGTERM PLAN

**I'll wait till November to discern this year's LONGTERM PLAN

***Then we can change up the LONGTERM PLAN in December

****#StayTheCourse #TrustKnickBrainTrust #BestInTheBizness #UsedCarBizness
 #ThatIs

******We were snarking at the prospect of $30 mil annually in second echelon PF's, and we ended up with mf'n $60 million annually in second echelon PF's. Lol, lol. #OnlyInAmerica #OnlyOnTheKnicks #VivaDolan #LaSalsaNuncaSeAcaba


********Nancy Ortiz is f'n unreal...https://youtu.be/ml1eV3MrfUU (https://youtu.be/ml1eV3MrfUU)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 12, 2019, 12:37:28 PM
Quote from: elephant on July 12, 2019, 11:04:45 AM
So right now the Knicks have some 14 players with contracts who expect to see real minutes.
How is that going to work?

It's a crowded roster.
Maybe we look into trading say Portis and Franc or Portis and Knox somewhere.  I guess we should look for any team needing a PF.  Any team whose PF gets injured.  Any team who think they are a PF away form contention. 

Utah comes to mind.  They let Favors go and have patchworked Ed Davis and Jeff Green there.  But if they really want to compete, send them Morris or Portis for something.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 12, 2019, 01:06:25 PM
Fouls are going to keep Mitch to a 20 minute load, give or take. Portis will play the bulk of his minutes here at center. Obviously Randle will have the main PF minutes. Taj will probably split his time between PF and C. Morris will split between PF and SF. It’s too many bigs for everyone to be happy with their minutes if everyone stays healthy. I don’t expect everyone to stay healthy in which case we signed the right number of bigs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 12, 2019, 02:13:58 PM
Taj could be attractive for someone's playoff run ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 12, 2019, 03:44:58 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 12, 2019, 10:28:19 AM
The Chris Paul contract was ridiculous from the start.  Too old to give a 4 year contract to.

I think Paul would do fine in Miami
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 12, 2019, 03:48:26 PM
Already trading Portis ?  I think his play will make you not wish to
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 12, 2019, 05:18:31 PM
We signed 4 PF's this offseason.
So moving one or two for an asset makes sense.

Morris just on a 1 year deal won't bring back much.
I think we intend Randle as a foundation piece.
Which leaves Portis and Taj.  Package with Franc and get a player and pick back.

Taj is a vet defender who can handle C work.
A playoff team might want such a hardworking smart vet.
But he doesn't score.
Portis can score but doesn't defend much.
Is young.

Really I'm fine with trading any one (or two) of our new PF's and try to
get a solid SF back, or a yute and a pick.
I kind of like Portis and think he's the most interesting of the 4.
Not really a Randle fan.  Like Taj as an oldhead leader.
Good mentor for Mitch.
Morris is a pretty good player, but has a 1 year deal, so who knows how
long he toils in Knickdom.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 12, 2019, 05:29:10 PM
“A playoff team would want...”

And if WE are mathematically in the hunt - we trade players anyway?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on July 13, 2019, 02:03:19 AM
Knix did the flop for this?

---What has happened though is that Barrett’s shooting numbers have plummeted in Vegas. He’s shooting 30 percent from the floor and 20 percent on 3-pointers.---

The front office has not figured out that they are a truly bad shooting team?

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 13, 2019, 03:09:57 AM
I now have full confidence the Knicks will be top 10 in shooting this season based on the principle that whatever Luee say is so is never so.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 13, 2019, 03:56:51 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 12, 2019, 05:29:10 PM
“A playoff team would want...”

And if WE are mathematically in the hunt - we trade players anyway?

To get better, yes.
Cash in a PF (any of our 4 new ones) + Franc for a quality SF (and hopefully a pick).

I said early on the fact that Barrett can't hit 3's and doesn't defend is a big red flashing light.  Also said he might not be ready to start.  I'd be fine starting Knox and having RJB come off the bench.  I'd also be fine starting both of them, as I see this as another rebuilding year.  Really, getting Knox up to NBA level is more pressing to me than what Barrett does in Y1.

Luee's right, Knox have few shooters.
Who's our best 3-point shooter?
Ellington?  Trier?  Dotson?  Knox?  Randle?  Bullocks?
How many of them will manage 35% or better.
Teams will go under screens and clog the paint and dare the Knix to hit outside shots.  Which will mean few driving lanes for Barrett, Jr. Smith, Knox.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 13, 2019, 04:31:32 AM
I'm not a draftnik and don't see college ball.
All I watched was a 10 minute clip of Barrett's highlights and mistakes.  Wasn't that impressed.  Looked like he could drive and muscle college players.  Physically he looked a lot like Stan Johnson to me.  Lack of outside shooting and inattentive D.  Sounds like what we got (and what needs correction) in Knox.

Both DeAndre Hunter and Culver sounded like plug-n-play 3&D wings.  Maybe lower ceiling but higher floors.  Guys who project to be solid starters.  Adn good defedners.

Garland and Coby White were two PG's available.  Garland sort of a mystery man folks got high on.  Don't know much about them.

I know a lot of observers said this was a 3-man draft, with our guy in that mix.  But our guy has a lot to work on.  He either needs to get his 3's to drop or learn to play decent defense, or we got problems ...
Title: Re: CP3
Post by: thebizneverloses on July 13, 2019, 07:23:17 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 12, 2019, 10:27:08 AM
Quote from: Kam on July 12, 2019, 12:30:07 AM
Will be moved again. You traded Russ because he is 30 and you're rebuilding.  You don't swap a 30 yr old for a 34 yr old and call it a day.

Looking like Miami

They can take Dragic and a pick - then move Dragic for more picks

heh

Doubtful Dragic would yield much in a trade at this point, given injuries. Unless he's only used to take back a bad contract with picks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on July 13, 2019, 07:25:35 AM
Quote from: elephant on July 12, 2019, 11:04:45 AM
So right now the Knicks have some 14 players with contracts who expect to see real minutes.

How is that going to work? How do you avoid bitterness and resentment?

Absolutely. If you're going to pick up players just to trade them for assets later, why not do what the Clippers did with Moe Harkless or the Nets with Allan Crabbe and so forth.

Instead, you've built an atmosphere that will almost certainly diminish the value of each asset on the team.

That said, I think Mook is the best player most likely to bring back a positive return, such as a late first rounder. He's probably the best player on the team, and he fits well with a lot of teams given his flexibility.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 13, 2019, 09:25:23 AM
Quote from: luee on July 13, 2019, 02:03:19 AM
Knix did the flop for this?

---What has happened though is that Barrett’s shooting numbers have plummeted in Vegas. He’s shooting 30 percent from the floor and 20 percent on 3-pointers.---

The front office has not figured out that they are a truly bad shooting team?

Good player

Not a 2 guard

And not yet a lead dog scorer

Garland may have been the better pick, yes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on July 13, 2019, 01:27:57 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on July 13, 2019, 07:25:35 AM

Instead, you've built an atmosphere that will almost certainly diminish the value of each asset on the team.


If we have one specialty, that is certainly it.
Title: RJ
Post by: chipstern on July 13, 2019, 07:55:26 PM
21-8-10

"Not a guard."

"Severely flawed."

"Over rated." 

Yup. 

Why exactly did I bail on this colloquy?

Ah, that's right...it's all coming back to me. 



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 13, 2019, 07:56:31 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on July 13, 2019, 01:27:57 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on July 13, 2019, 07:25:35 AM

Instead, you've built an atmosphere that will almost certainly diminish the value of each asset on the team.


If we have one specialty, that is certainly it.

(https://s3.amazonaws.com/intanibase/iad_characters/321.jpg)

And your specialty, pray tell. 

No need to reply.  The answer is self-evident. 

(https://img.discogs.com/6lrFNr03WaSJ2cLcqzAlgZhu668=/fit-in/300x300/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(40)/discogs-images/A-2636858-1509490708-2421.jpeg.jpg)
Title: Have A Good Summer Everyone
Post by: chipstern on July 13, 2019, 07:57:44 PM
(http://content.sny.tv/assets/images/6/3/6/308968636/cuts/750x422/cut.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on July 13, 2019, 08:15:43 PM
Yeah, I was saying after the 2nd or 3rd game how, despite some awkwardness, his body moves through space beautifully. He sniffs out the basket. I love that. We're going to have a real scorer.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 13, 2019, 08:57:18 PM
Quote from: elephant on July 13, 2019, 08:15:43 PM
Yeah, I was saying after the 2nd or 3rd game how, despite some awkwardness, his body moves through space beautifully. He sniffs out the basket. I love that. We're going to have a real scorer.

His instinct for drawing coverage finding open shooters is impressive, and contagious.  When was the last time anyone saw Kevin Knox tabulating assists? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on July 13, 2019, 09:22:46 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 13, 2019, 07:56:31 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on July 13, 2019, 01:27:57 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on July 13, 2019, 07:25:35 AM

Instead, you've built an atmosphere that will almost certainly diminish the value of each asset on the team.


If we have one specialty, that is certainly it.

(https://s3.amazonaws.com/intanibase/iad_characters/321.jpg)

And your specialty, pray tell. 

No need to reply.  The answer is self-evident. 

(https://img.discogs.com/6lrFNr03WaSJ2cLcqzAlgZhu668=/fit-in/300x300/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(40)/discogs-images/A-2636858-1509490708-2421.jpeg.jpg)

lol....U KNOW ME...


#TheMolester
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on July 13, 2019, 09:27:04 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 13, 2019, 07:56:31 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on July 13, 2019, 01:27:57 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on July 13, 2019, 07:25:35 AM

Instead, you've built an atmosphere that will almost certainly diminish the value of each asset on the team.


If we have one specialty, that is certainly it.

And your specialty, pray tell. 


                       (https://media.tenor.com/images/f45dc3deb54ae86b9276bd0aaa790972/tenor.gif)
warning: lesterdog = internet evil type
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Cr7J2m2pLgPV5j-E2Lsb8y-_-PhugYjYO6h8maAE6NBKM82Dhd31XjxZQ4CYtL1fWK42Y8ig83XU3pPHWB-2KeeP4RZnPrdTil2pAp-q02aps-2ODnpMuVvc-tMV0yWilRC0Jg6oy4d850fKeTnXXtVHtlTdj0uYdryVzhj-_fnlmD0Y4mvpB29_iGmJCf7EulPN0jFSksFMJWkEJhq934TNnHpFtuAzIoHod4PQJNrTlt2AnWWEkUw2duR_4DOg_1jRPYE8q_gtehKpQckjjDV4IKScNvrBMsEQ0TRjh3FB-tRwtsAdLo-hOgHFS0gJA3vg-FV90k6smSzVH45O3hFpD8Q_68EoagQBc3mpamZ7iMncO2CUIufGvW-v_-niJLdGz4stJ3VlwzOkByEZPjS7hW-WIXk3vceNWB3QGvowgdqb-wmQzvbBc_Cuk3qcfOEgG0SfnuIbYmQ2Cz36LuHIZzD60vA3RQk9sKi3UjzwUPJf4P7_6Kuz6KuZuPhbtxs1C1sIqYhhbxyCJKuifulegGIv72tKRONiezSyYml4rf5BxGlCpxUFvrZh13gYjGI5XLCrHTri8OPimj2_ywCCZj_kl_YrGPNxkDPC1CoW0hGm74wIGsKD7PU5iNGiOmUe0VLOzVvnQOyu3v6Z-vTIcqvI53A=w1199-h600-no)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 13, 2019, 09:49:06 PM
That was fun. RJ, Kevin, Ignas, Allen all were really good, as was Cavanaugh. Mitch was other worldly. He has a stroke and handles. It will be a year or two before we see it in game play.

This is going to be a fun season for our young Knicks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 14, 2019, 03:53:22 AM
RJ does look a bit awkward on some of those drives, and he forces shots.  Maybe some of that quirky rhythm throws defenders off.  But half his drives are a bit odd-looking.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 14, 2019, 06:26:07 AM
Should get 8-10 points a night just off being a great athlete

16 point scorer + if the rest of his game allows for big minutes.  But Fiz will use the vets.  So likely RJ at 12-13 per for now.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on July 14, 2019, 12:29:57 PM
Like to see vid of the 10 assists — promising. Nice round line too, for Kevin Knox. Damn shame he apparently has to be pushed really hard to play basketball.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 14, 2019, 01:32:48 PM
Guessing guys were burying their shots.  Won’t happen always.  I put the over under at 2.6 assists for Barrett
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 14, 2019, 02:31:52 PM
Aside from Issac Bonga, the Wiz didn’t have anyone up to the job of containing their man. The weird thing was our guys attacking the ensuing doubles, forcing the Wiz to fully commit, then finding a (usually very) open man. Good looking basketball.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 14, 2019, 11:11:24 PM
Hachimura had the night off
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 14, 2019, 11:56:38 PM
Smart by the Wiz. Helped him avoid having his confidence severely set back. He looked pro ready in the game I saw from him.
Title: Herky NOT Jerky...HOPE Not DOPE
Post by: chipstern on July 15, 2019, 12:09:51 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 14, 2019, 02:31:52 PM
The weird thing was our guys attacking the ensuing doubles, forcing the Wiz to fully commit, then finding a (usually very) open man. Good looking basketball.

RJ looked herky, not jerky; purposeful, not awkward. And over the course of four games, he got his fellow pups Knox, Robinson and Brazdeikis moving without the ball, setting screens, and spacing the floor, realizing that opposing defenses had to respect his north-south drives down the lane, and that when they collapsed, RJ either doubled down and got to the free throw line, or identified a driver or shooter or dunker to convert easy, well...EASIER opportunities.  Knox and Brazdeikis spread the floor with the threat of the threes, and Robinson, moving without the ball got lots of old school big man hoops.  Again, RJ's game and sense of team work, translated to Knox and Brdeikis, who while they were launching [AND MAKING] ICBMs, didn't settle, and the Knicks as a team drew a lot of fouls, which is what Fizz was preaching all last year, and not often getting...live and learn. 

Kadeem did a solid job at PG.  But really, RJ is thinking like a point guard/point forward wing, a distributor, bringing the ball up on so many possessions. And RJ's penetrations and kick outs, inspired Ignas and Kevin.  When was the last time Kevin Knox had 5 assists?  And Brazdeikis.  Maybe James Dolan dropped a dime on Jeffrey Epstein, and that was God's WAY of rewarding the Knicks with another 2nd round gem. 

Good vibe, or as Facil inferred...FUN, like real city basketball. 

And some of those auditioning for camp invites and assignment to the G-League Knicks, were very impressive, really.  Two 6'9" bigs in particular, the offensive performance of Kavanaugh and the defensive performance of Wooten, both showed good motors, hops, tenacity and fell right in to RJ's style of orchestration.  Kavanaugh finishing on the break, knocking down treys; Wooten an elite college defender, who can leap right out of the gym, was like Robinson 2.1--BLOCKED FIVE SHOTS. Too bad we didn't get to see the Wilkes kid, 6'8" scoring SF from UCLA, who signed a two-way.  And as good as Trier was in Game 1, him sitting out with some sort of bug, maybe was a blessing in disguise, as her could look at RJ and see parallels with how they create for each other, and potentially for others. 

Mudiay [Payton]
Herzonja [Morris, Brazdeikis]
Vonleh [Randle, Gibson]
Kornet [Portis]

C: Robinson
PF-C: Randle, Portis, Gibson
SF-PF: Morris, Knox, Brazdeikis
SG-SF: Ellington, Bullock, Barrett, Trier, Dotson, Ntilikina
PG: Payton, Smith

Got me, but for what was portrayed as an abject failure in the media?  Pretty good haul.  And on sensible 1+1 deals. 

I was pulling for 2+1 Randle in my private correspondences with Nagel, and/or for Portis, as i did not see Durant Or Irving or Walker or Leonard giving us a sniff. 

Was startled when we got both.  And how aggressively the Knicks got commitments from a pool of players, instead of crying about spilt milk. 

Now Randle, only 24, should be a fixture at PF, and we have solid bigs in Gibson and Portis. 

We look to have ferocious competition at every position, and genuine depth. Can't find playing time for everyone?  Nice problem to have, for fuck's sake.  Pups won't be given anything...a different style of development than last year. 

Hey, Dotson and Ntilikina as the 14th and 15th man?

Why not Ellington and Bullock.  They're getting paid well for the privilege. 

And hey, come the February trade deadline, we have a host of talented players with ending contracts, should certain players present themselves as redundancies, heaven forbid, but prove to be assets as possible transactions with teams on the cusp of a playoff run present themselves. 

These VETS, young (Randle, Portis, Payton) and older (Gibson, Ellington, Morris, Bullock) are not here to mentor our pups, but to kick their ass, stand between them and minutes.  Take this gun from my dead cold hands. 

WIN. 

Those who do not give Fizdale credit for the growth of Robinson and Knox and Trier (let alone Mudiay, Herzonja, Vonleh, and Kornet), are either borscht belt comedians, or visually impaired. 

WIN. 

RJ Barrett, Kevin Knox, Frank Ntilikina, Ignas Brazdeikis, Mitchell Robinson, Dennis Smith, Alonzo Trier and Damyean Dotson represent our Kiddie Korps.  I count EIGHT, facing SEVEN more experienced, arguably more polished, mature, talented players. 

The style of basketball I saw against the Wizards, embodied the kind of aggressive, push the ball, attack the hoop, get to the foul line, spread the floor Fizz talked of, but rarely delivered last season.  Our Kiddie Korps were allowed to take their lumps, play through their faux pas, see what it took to win.  Seventeen wins.  Not exactly a tank job, but a time share with the future. 

This season? 

Just...WIN. 

The Nyets have elevated the bar, to put it mildly...but then they have playing poker and nurturing their own youth patiently and purposefully, a nice template for Perry & Mills TO ADHERE TO, motherfuckers, and the Knicks are going to have to raise their game.  Lots of work to do.  But I like our talent pool, and serious accountability for our Pups. 

Does this Pinyata Like Roster, and a preponderance of...DOGS, translate into...DEFENSE? 

Stay tuned. 

Onwards towards the playoffs, least way in the hunt. 

Signed

Rosie The Kibbitzer
PomPom Gurl Pro Temps
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 15, 2019, 02:14:49 AM
I have no idea what the contract situation is with Bullock, but I have heard plantar fasciitis mentioned as the concerning condition. With that news and our surplus of shooting guards and wings, I hope we a looking to sign him for the minimum so he can be insured then release him to keep a spot for a backup center.

I’m trying to believe that Portis, Randle, and Gibson do that job between them. If Portis had a better defensive rep, I’d say it was him and I think that’s how we’re going to try to use him.

Taj, Randle, and Morris is a power small ball lineup that could be hell to cover on a night when they are hitting shots.

Don’t get me wrong. Mitch is both awesome and pivotal, but he’s foul prone and to keep him healthy we’re going to want to shield him from too much banging with the league’s true monsters.

We can also go Randle Portis Gibson because of how Portis spaces and Gibson defends.

I want a plan for the frontcourt. I’m willing to let the backcourt work itself out.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 15, 2019, 12:41:24 PM
J Earl Smith waived by Cavs.
Likely career over at 34.
LeBJ probably won't even come calling.
And it's not like anyone would see him as a smart vet.
Probably would have had a better career if he was more focused and did less partying.  Had a solid career nonetheless, made a ton of money, etc.   Was one of those guys who couldn't handle the NYC distractions.  Likely too many friends and hangers-on, since he's from NJ.

This is kind of odd:
Quote
For most contracts, only the guaranteed portion of a player’s salary counts toward matching in a trade. But because Smith signed his deal under the previous Collective Bargaining Agreement, his full $15,680,000 salary counts even though just a small portion of it ($4.4M) is guaranteed.

Actually, it was $3.9M guaranteed, but Cavs gave him an extra 1/2 Mil to move his guarantee date back two weeks, while they sought to trade him.  I like how money is just sloshing around in the NBofA.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 15, 2019, 01:01:03 PM
Shame on the Knicks for making me watch more of Kevin Knox
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 15, 2019, 01:09:38 PM
HENRY ELLENSON signs with Brooklyn.
Title: Sitters
Post by: Kam on July 15, 2019, 01:31:47 PM
I don't see Taj playing every game.  He's the new Lance Thomas.  Bring him in if you don't like the defensive effort.

I don't see Bullock playing much if hurt.

I don't think i've ever actually seen Wayne Ellington. 

Frank and Dotson are Phil Jackon holdovers so they're on the bubble.

Gonna be a bunch of guys on the end of the bench as Fizdale doesn't play that many guys on a given night.

And i hate that thing where you change the starters all the time.

I'm ok with sitting the players mentioned above.



Title: Does Knox go to the bench?
Post by: Kam on July 15, 2019, 02:18:01 PM
Starting C:   Mitchell or Bobby
Starting PF:  Randle
Starting SF:  Morris
Starting SG: RJB
Starting PG: Dsmith or Payton

Bench: Trier, Knox, Taj, Iggy
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 15, 2019, 02:45:06 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 15, 2019, 01:09:38 PM
HENRY ELLENSON signs with Brooklyn.

A two way contract. You can watch him in the Gleague. Decent player, but he needs to get stronger.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 15, 2019, 04:23:34 PM
The Lakers got seriously deep.

AD Boogie McGee
LBJ Dudley
Kuzma KCP
Green Caruso Daniels
Bradley Cook Rondo

If the Battle for LA is one of attrition, they probably have the edge on the Clippers at this point.
Title: Re: Does Knox go to the bench?
Post by: bodiddley on July 15, 2019, 04:39:00 PM
Quote from: Kam on July 15, 2019, 02:18:01 PM
Starting C:   Mitchell or Bobby
Starting PF:  Randle
Starting SF:  Morris
Starting SG: RJB
Starting PG: Dsmith or Payton

Bench: Trier, Knox, Taj, Iggy

Smith and RJB would have to be the worst 3-point shooting starting backcourt in the League.  And their driving lanes would be clogged by Mitch and Randle.
Morris would be our best 3-point threat in the starting lineup?
You could be very well right -- as that's the most obvious starting 5.  But it all sounds implausible and poorly conceived.

Taj might start off as a in-case-of-no-defense-break-glass guy.
But I think either to start the season or by Game 20 Taj will be fully installed as our backup C.

I'd start:
Mitch
Randle
Morris
Dotson
Jr. Smith

Portis, Barrett, Knox and Payton's place as an energetic bench unit.  Along with Taj and Trier. 
We could do Hubie's old second line switch!
Okay so we have too many players.

Really, since I don't see us doing much this year, I'd rather we didn't hijack Morris and just start Knox in his stead.  I think this team makes more sense if/when we trade one of our new PF's + Franc for an SF. 

Seems kind of foolish not to start one of Knox and Barrett.  I assume we start Barrett at SG and Knox gets a bit shortchanged -- but maybe as much as he's ready for.
But I'd rather start Knox.  We don't need to throw another 19 year old in with grown men starters.  Let him develop slowly and work his way up.   Can still get 20 mins a night if he's ready.

I'd be ready to go with Dotson for better D than Trier.  And Trier is kind of an instant offense bench guy.

Crowded roster until we make a move.
(I didn't even consider Bullocks/Ellington)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 15, 2019, 04:55:29 PM
With the possible exception of backup center, we won’t be playing guys just because we need someone to be filling out the position. Barrett doesn’t suffer for Knox’s off night and Kevin doesn’t suffer for RJ’s. This should go for all the pups, by which I mean everyone on the roster 25 and younger. I think I could have said 24, but chose 25 to be safe.

Mitch
Portis
Randle
Knox
Ignas
Barrett
Frank
Dotson
Trier
Payton
Smith

While there is a hell of a lot of talent there, all of these guys have lots of things to figure out.

Having Taj, Marcus, and Wayne means there’s a battle tested framework of basic NBA play to fall back on and build up from.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 15, 2019, 05:30:56 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 15, 2019, 04:23:34 PM
The Lakers got seriously deep.

AD Boogie McGee
LBJ Dudley
Kuzma KCP
Green Caruso Daniels
Bradley Cook Rondo



heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 15, 2019, 05:35:58 PM
Why is it everyone needs Robinson in their starting lineup?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 15, 2019, 06:20:50 PM
Key defender.
And we need to develop our yute.
The only thing going to keep him off the court is fouls.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 15, 2019, 06:25:03 PM
Christian Wood just hit the waiver wire. We should pick him up if possible. Sorry Reggie, Wood is too good to pass up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 15, 2019, 06:34:04 PM
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2845718-grizzlies-rookie-brandon-clarke-named-2019-nba-summer-league-mvp (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2845718-grizzlies-rookie-brandon-clarke-named-2019-nba-summer-league-mvp)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 15, 2019, 07:36:09 PM
Nice player
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 15, 2019, 08:12:20 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 15, 2019, 06:25:03 PM
Christian Wood just hit the waiver wire. We should pick him up if possible. Sorry Reggie, Wood is too good to pass up.

Perhaps so. 

I believe that the Knicks have proffered Bullock one of the their MCE slots/contracts. 

Wouldn't be surprised if Wood ends up on the Nyets, who could use some more front court help. 

PS: If Charles Oakley takes a seat on this forum, I'd suggest calling security to toss his dumb ass out. 
Title: Re: Does Knox go to the bench?
Post by: PrezIke on July 15, 2019, 10:48:44 PM
Quote from: Kam on July 15, 2019, 02:18:01 PM
Starting C:   Mitchell or Bobby
Starting PF:  Randle
Starting SF:  Morris
Starting SG: RJB
Starting PG: Dsmith or Payton

Bench: Trier, Knox, Taj, Iggy

Not sure I see RJ starting.

Throw in Ellington aka "The man no one's seen play ball before" to Knicks fans in at the 2 if you're gonna start DSJ. He can shoot (real nick: "The Man with the Golden Arm"). All he really can do is hit 3s. Bullock another candidate, if fit.

Peyton could actually start as well, as he can spot a pass, but then could be all our yoots wind up ridin' the pine, which could be fun if maybe Fiz has dreams of subbing 5 at a time like Tulane did back in the day with "The Posse."
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on July 15, 2019, 10:52:25 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 15, 2019, 06:25:03 PM
Christian Wood just hit the waiver wire. We should pick him up if possible. Sorry Reggie, Wood is too good to pass up.

We won't reneg
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 15, 2019, 10:58:13 PM
I’m expecting training camp to be competitive enough that one or two guys get banged up on the way to opening night.

Aside from Randle, I don’t think anything is set in stone or really even has a favorite to start at this point.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on July 16, 2019, 07:52:34 AM
Put me down for DSJ/RJ/Mook/Randle/Big Meech.

If I had to guess, I'd say it will be a long 10 man rotation to start, so the back-up five would be Payton/Trier/Knox/Portis/Taj.

That leaves Ntilikina, Ellington, Bullock (who plays ahead of Zo if healthy), Braz, Dot, with the latter two the most likely to be healthy scratches.

I just hope Fiz doesn't mess around with the rotation as much as he did last year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on July 16, 2019, 10:46:05 AM
Quote from: PrezIke on July 15, 2019, 10:52:25 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 15, 2019, 06:25:03 PM
Christian Wood just hit the waiver wire. We should pick him up if possible. Sorry Reggie, Wood is too good to pass up.

We won't reneg

https://twitter.com/ReggieBullock35/status/1151135638751567872
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 16, 2019, 10:49:15 AM
Until I see more -

Payton
Ellington
Morris
Randle
Portis

Yep - the pups form a hungry second unit with Gibson

Frank must be dealt.  No way we pick his 6.2 mil option up prior to 10/31 so why not get a 2nd rounder and open a roster spot?

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on July 16, 2019, 12:59:23 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 16, 2019, 10:49:15 AM
Until I see more -

Payton
Ellington
Morris
Randle
Portis

Yep - the pups form a hungry second unit with Gibson

Frank must be dealt.  No way we pick his 6.2 mil option up prior to 10/31 so why not get a 2nd rounder and open a roster spot?

He's def on the most likely to be traded first I gather.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on July 16, 2019, 01:01:53 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on July 16, 2019, 07:52:34 AM
Put me down for DSJ/RJ/Mook/Randle/Big Meech.

If I had to guess, I'd say it will be a long 10 man rotation to start, so the back-up five would be Payton/Trier/Knox/Portis/Taj.

That leaves Ntilikina, Ellington, Bullock (who plays ahead of Zo if healthy), Braz, Dot, with the latter two the most likely to be healthy scratches.

I just hope Fiz doesn't mess around with the rotation as much as he did last year.

What makes you so sold RJ can start at the 2 for us, Biz?

I know he's the #3 pick, but seems like he's got a lot of competition and has quite a bit of growing to do, it seems. You think he's ahead of IsoZo (who's more efficient)?

I see him getting more time at the 3 given his deficiencies and strengths (literally), but I think a lot of our "guards" will play there.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on July 16, 2019, 01:11:56 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 15, 2019, 02:45:06 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 15, 2019, 01:09:38 PM
HENRY ELLENSON signs with Brooklyn.

A two way contract. You can watch him in the Gleague. Decent player, but he needs to get stronger.

I like Ignas better.  #BrazBeatDown.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 16, 2019, 01:19:12 PM
I like CAVANAUGH better
Title: not a surprise
Post by: Kam on July 16, 2019, 01:27:17 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 16, 2019, 01:19:12 PM
I like CAVANAUGH better

(https://addictionrecoveryebulletin.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/addiction-recovery-ebulletin-kavanaugh-likes-beer-1-759x350.jpg)
Title: Reggie Bullock contract is 2 yrs 8.2 mil
Post by: Kam on July 16, 2019, 01:35:45 PM
I'm assuming year 2 is a team option.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 16, 2019, 02:31:26 PM
Indeed.
And a helluva lot better than the 2/$21M we originally agreed on with him.  Bullock a good effort guy, but erratic.  Can have a big game now and then, but mostly low impact and mistake prone.
While Ellington is a chucker.
Giving too much time to either of  them just takes away from our yute: RJB, Knox, Trier, Dot.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 16, 2019, 03:07:28 PM
Doesnt take a damn thing from Barrett or Trier

You wanted to see Fiz coach a better roster - so you have to allow him to give the vets minutes
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 16, 2019, 03:32:01 PM
Bullock isn’t taking minutes from anyone until he gets his feet right. If our Kids come along (Knox, RJ, Frank, and Dot) he’s a great candidate to move at the deadline. A fully healthy Bullock might be on a different trajectory, but that’s not what we got.

Ellington gets tasked with spreading the floor. This involves a certain amount of chucking. It also involves moving himself open and arriving at his spots ready to shoot. All our young guards need to improve in these areas.

Select v National team, then worlds on deck. Drew League is happening.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 16, 2019, 03:36:00 PM
Would like to see RJ play for Canada
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 16, 2019, 03:51:31 PM
I’d start to worry about the load for Young Ro. Next year in the Olympics definitely, but maybe a slightly slower summer this year.

If Wood will take the minimum, I say we give it to him and bring 16 to camp. He’s a credible fill for Mitch or Portis and the three would give us a deep run of mobile bigs. He might move Bobby to third string.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 16, 2019, 04:40:04 PM
Some vet play should be useful.
Too much could be harmful to development.

I don't want to play a vet-heavy lineup just to get the 8th seed.
I want another year of development without too much concern over record.  Which means a lot of time for R&B, Knox, Jr. Smith, Trier, Dot.  That's my priority, and hopefully the Knix allow Fizz the freedom to do that.

The crowded roster has me edgy.  A 2-for-one trade would do us well, to consolidate.  You don't need 14 guys who need minutes.
I'd open the season with Franc as our backup PG.  Let him audition.  See what he can do, and try to up his trade value.  Play him alongside a lot of offenders, such as Portis, Barrett, Trier (and Taj for defense).

I would have liked to have traded say Portis and Franc for Josh Rich.  But MIA moved him already and he's a good fit in PHI.
Though PHI could use more bench guys.

Knix should be looking to trade for Beal, Tatum, Jaylen, Covington (or Josh Rich).  Wiz would like to drop Mahinmi.  MIN needs more players.  Maybe Ainge can be induced to have a panic attack.

I'd move Randle/Portis + Franc for any of those.  Toss in a Trier/Dot as well if needed.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 16, 2019, 04:45:12 PM
Btw, Duke Ellington on his 9th team heading into his 11th season.
For 6 of those teams he played one season or less.
He shoots 3's at a 37% clip and does little else.
He also turns 32 early next season.
Ho & hum ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on July 16, 2019, 06:11:17 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on July 16, 2019, 01:01:53 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on July 16, 2019, 07:52:34 AM
Put me down for DSJ/RJ/Mook/Randle/Big Meech.

If I had to guess, I'd say it will be a long 10 man rotation to start, so the back-up five would be Payton/Trier/Knox/Portis/Taj.

That leaves Ntilikina, Ellington, Bullock (who plays ahead of Zo if healthy), Braz, Dot, with the latter two the most likely to be healthy scratches.

I just hope Fiz doesn't mess around with the rotation as much as he did last year.

What makes you so sold RJ can start at the 2 for us, Biz?

I know he's the #3 pick, but seems like he's got a lot of competition and has quite a bit of growing to do, it seems. You think he's ahead of IsoZo (who's more efficient)?

I see him getting more time at the 3 given his deficiencies and strengths (literally), but I think a lot of our "guards" will play there.

I think he's definitely a better fit at the 3, right now given the challenges I expect guarding quicker players.

BUT - Randle and Mook are going to start. And I think RJ, as the #3 seed and presumed new face of a franchise desperate for something along those lines, is going to be given every last opportunity to start, even if he isn't the best option in the immediate term.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 16, 2019, 07:41:34 PM
Randle, Morris, and Barrett all have burly bodies and physical games. Add Mitch for speed and verticality and whoever emerges from the PG scrum between EP, DJS, Frank, and Zo will also be to some degree a physical specimen. We won’t be Philly big but for the most part we should be able to more than hold our ground and benefit from a physical style of play. Shooting will be the problem with this group. That’s why Trier might make most sense as the guard due to his shooting.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on July 16, 2019, 08:02:34 PM
If the best-case scenario for RJ unfolds - a big if, granted- he's going to be a good enough playmaker that you don't need a traditional PG at the 1. A scorer like Allonzo (if he develops enough to merit a starting spot) or the defensive-minded Ntilikina (if he becomes George Hill, which was my hope pre-draft) will suffice at the 1.

If he doesn't develop a reliable shot or become a stopper defensively, he risks becoming a burlier Evan Turner. That's his floor. His ceiling is very high, and predicated on his motivation to be great helping him overcome his apparent early shortcomings. I'm a bigger believer than most.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 17, 2019, 02:24:50 AM
You could go RJ, Zo, and Frank. With Randle that’s a lot of playmaking. This assumes some development and confidence by Frank. We should see in the worlds. If Coach Smart really helped Dennis fix his shot, you could want RJ, Frank, and DSJ.

Morris and Gibson are two great pillars for Knox to build towards. To get the best parts of either players’ game, he’ll really have to develop his base.

Taj, Randle, Morris, Barrett, and Frank would be a very switchy defensive unit.

Who’s going to give the coaches what they want? Who’s ready to help us win games?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 17, 2019, 03:28:12 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on July 16, 2019, 08:02:34 PM
If the best-case scenario for RJ unfolds - a big if, granted- he's going to be a good enough playmaker that you don't need a traditional PG at the 1. A scorer like Allonzo (if he develops enough to merit a starting spot) or the defensive-minded Ntilikina (if he becomes George Hill, which was my hope pre-draft) will suffice at the 1.

It takes a really special wing to be the functional PG.  Pippen, Harden LeBJ, etc.

Quote
If he doesn't develop a reliable shot or become a stopper defensively, he risks becoming a burlier Evan Turner. That's his floor. His ceiling is very high, and predicated on his motivation to be great helping him overcome his apparent early shortcomings. I'm a bigger believer than most.

I've thought of the Ev Turner comp as well.  (A #2 pick, btw).
Turner has disappointed due to his lack of an outside shot and poor D, plus being a good but not great playmaker.  But he's been a reasonable NBA player.  I hope that's Barrett's floor.  Because the worst-case scenario is his poor outside shooting causes him to be less effective in other areas (driving, creating) and lose confidence.  And the NAB has changed from 7-10 years ago (early EvTurner days) whereas the 3 is now expected of everyone on the court.  Another possible comparison is Wiggins.

I've seen very very little of RJrB so far.  His drives are physical and often odd-looking.  Will they work in the NBA?  Are they tricky enough to succeed, because he forces shots off his drives.  Can he drive right?  If you can't hit 3's and only drive left, NBA defenses will stop you.

I need to see his handle and playmaking.  And more of his shot.  But I think he's far from a sure thing.  He's ultra-young, so there's that uncertainty too.  A lot depends on Knix development  coaching.  At least Barrett is said to be a hard-worker.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 17, 2019, 04:13:55 AM
He has a get by, seal, and read approach which can work in the NBA, if he can protect the ball. He got better over the five games we saw him at in the Vegas competition.

NOP 10pts 4-18 1 dime 2 TOs
PHX 8 pts 3-15 1 dime 8 TOs
TOR 17 pts 6-14 6 dimes 1 TO
LAL 21 pts 6-17 3 dimes 1 TO
WAS 21 pts 7-13 10 dimes 2 TOs

In the last game he was making the pass once he had bent the D instead of shooting into a double team, which we definitely don’t need him to do. He finished with his own attack when the D didn’t bend enough. He looked fairly comfortable going right, much more so than he did in college. He can play fast but he doesn’t have to.

He won’t be able to bully all players, but if you pair him with a bigger guard like Frank or Trier, or sorta Payton, some guard is going to have a bully opportunity.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 17, 2019, 11:44:31 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 16, 2019, 04:40:04 PM
Some vet play should be useful.
Too much could be harmful to development.

I don't want to play a vet-heavy lineup just to get the 8th seed.
I want another year of development without too much concern over record.  Which means a lot of time for R&B, Knox, Jr. Smith, Trier, Dot.  That's my priority, and hopefully the Knix allow Fizz the freedom to do that.

The crowded roster has me edgy.  A 2-for-one trade would do us well, to consolidate.  You don't need 14 guys who need minutes.
I'd open the season with Franc as our backup PG.  Let him audition.  See what he can do, and try to up his trade value.  Play him alongside a lot of offenders, such as Portis, Barrett, Trier (and Taj for defense).

I would have liked to have traded say Portis and Franc for Josh Rich.  But MIA moved him already and he's a good fit in PHI.
Though PHI could use more bench guys.

Knix should be looking to trade for Beal, Tatum, Jaylen, Covington (or Josh Rich).  Wiz would like to drop Mahinmi.  MIN needs more players.  Maybe Ainge can be induced to have a panic attack.

I'd move Randle/Portis + Franc for any of those. Toss in a Trier/Dot as well if needed.

You need to stop
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 17, 2019, 11:47:06 AM
Turner has never scored 1200 points

RJs floor - as a scorer - is definitely higher.

Different players - as Evan Turner was never asked to score - true.  And Evan is a bit beefier, true?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 17, 2019, 12:04:28 PM
Revised starting lineup as of 7/17

SMITH
BARRETT
MORRIS
RANDLE
GIBSON
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 17, 2019, 12:06:54 PM
Turner vs Barrett

An 11-7-6 type vs a 17-8-4.

Barrett will run the floor better and anticipate (passing lanes) better on D.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 17, 2019, 02:33:18 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 17, 2019, 12:06:54 PM
Turner vs Barrett

An 11-7-6 type vs a 17-8-4.

Barrett will run the floor better and anticipate (passing lanes) better on D.

That would be awesome. Year 1 or year 3?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 17, 2019, 02:42:13 PM
I’m predicting Christian Wood to the Blazers. He’ll give them a better look than Whiteside.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 17, 2019, 03:07:19 PM
lol
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 17, 2019, 03:17:46 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 17, 2019, 11:44:31 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 16, 2019, 04:40:04 PM
Knix should be looking to trade for Beal, Tatum, Jaylen, Covington (or Josh Rich).  Wiz would like to drop Mahinmi.  MIN needs more players.  Maybe Ainge can be induced to have a panic attack.

I'd move Randle/Portis + Franc for any of those. Toss in a Trier/Dot as well if needed.

You need to stop

Just getting started:

How about Randle + Knox + Ellington + Franc
for
Brad Beal and Mahinmi?

Knix consolidate some players into an all-star.
Mahinmi an ending contract.

The only thing bad is if we were going to add Beal, you'd want Randle in place too.  So two starting slots would be locked up.
Beal-Barrett-Randle would be a good start on a rebuild.

Also, Wiz drafted Hachimura and just added Bertans.  And have Thomas Bryant.  Edit: they seem to have Moe Wagner too.  So maybe another Big isn't what they need for Beal.

Randle and El-Train can't be traded until Dec. 15, so time to look them over and see how they fit.  if you think we're giving up too much, try to get them to add Mo Wagner.
Title: Kemba Walker
Post by: Kam on July 17, 2019, 03:44:41 PM
Wearing Antoine Walker's #8 jersey means Celtics fans don't have to purchase new gear.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 17, 2019, 03:49:08 PM
Wagner is garbage.

If you want to do deals use the 8 moveable guys and leave the 7 FA signings out of the equation for a minute. You don’t have a package to trade for Beal till December. Might as well see how the pieces fit.

I’d move Dot for a pick and sign Wood. We’d still be overstocked at SG & Wing while upgrading to adequate depth at Center.

Quote from: Kam on July 17, 2019, 03:44:41 PM
Wearing Antoine Walker's #8 jersey means Celtics fans don't have to purchase new gear.

It perfect. The ones who do it should start a fund to defray some of the Luxury tax the Celts will be paying over the life of his contract.
Title: SOS Chip. Trader Vic Alert 🚨
Post by: carlos123 on July 17, 2019, 04:24:24 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 17, 2019, 03:17:46 PM

Just getting started:

How about Randle + Knox + Ellington + Franc
for
Brad Beal and Mahinmi?


How about Randle + Knox + Ellington + Franc + RJ Barrett + 5 #1 picks
for
A bag of beans?

Just make sure they’re EXPENSIVE beans.
Title: Summer of movement
Post by: Kam on July 17, 2019, 04:31:37 PM
This free agency saw 6 of the All-NBA players switch teams.

I'm interested to see who trades for Kevin Love (Indiana?), Cp3 (Miami? Philly?), Beal etc.
Title: Free Agency
Post by: chipstern on July 17, 2019, 04:49:25 PM
Ian Begley: Knicks say Reggie Bullock underwent successful surgery today at the Hospital for Special Surgery for a cervical disc herniation. The team will plan to provide an update on his rehab and progress around the start of training camp.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 17, 2019, 05:05:02 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 17, 2019, 03:17:46 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 17, 2019, 11:44:31 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 16, 2019, 04:40:04 PM
Knix should be looking to trade for Beal, Tatum, Jaylen, Covington (or Josh Rich).  Wiz would like to drop Mahinmi.  MIN needs more players.  Maybe Ainge can be induced to have a panic attack.

I'd move Randle/Portis + Franc for any of those. Toss in a Trier/Dot as well if needed.

You need to stop
ug

Just getting started:

How about Randle + Knox + Ellington + Franc
for
Brad Beal and Mahinmi?

Knix consolidate some players into an all-star.
Mahinmi an ending contract.

The only thing bad is if we were going to add Beal, you'd want Randle in place too.  So two starting slots would be locked up.
Beal-Barrett-Randle would be a good start on a rebuild.

Also, Wiz drafted Hachimura and just added Bertans.  And have Thomas Bryant.  Edit: they seem to have Moe Wagner too.  So maybe another Big isn't what they need for Beal.

Randle and El-Train can't be traded until Dec. 15, so time to look them over and see how they fit.  if you think we're giving up too much, try to get them to add Mo Wagner.

Randle stays
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 17, 2019, 05:05:26 PM
Just saw that & was about to post a link. We are a very nice organization.
Title: Re: SOS Chip. Trader Vic Alert 🚨
Post by: bodiddley on July 17, 2019, 05:06:10 PM
How about Randle + Knox + Ellington + Franc
for
Brad Beal and Bertans?

Title: Re: Free Agency
Post by: Kam on July 17, 2019, 05:25:50 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 17, 2019, 04:49:25 PM
Ian Begley: Knicks say Reggie Bullock underwent successful surgery today at the Hospital for Special Surgery for a cervical disc herniation. The team will plan to provide an update on his rehab and progress around the start of training camp.

Neck or arm pain, numbness or tingling may result when the disc material touches or compresses a spinal nerve. Treatment with rest, pain medication, spinal injections, and physical therapy is the first step to recovery. Most people improve in 6 weeks and return to normal activity.
Title: RJ Barrett
Post by: Kam on July 17, 2019, 05:29:42 PM
If his floor is Evan Turner his ceiling is around Ben Simmons.   Why not let RJ run the point?


RJ B
Wayne E
Marcus M
Julius R
Mitchell R

Bobby P  and TaJ first off the bench

IsoZo and Knox for scoring off the pine.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 17, 2019, 05:40:16 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 17, 2019, 03:49:08 PM
Wagner is garbage.



Heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 17, 2019, 07:00:53 PM
Wood is a Piston.
Title: Cute
Post by: chipstern on July 17, 2019, 07:43:22 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 17, 2019, 05:06:10 PM
How about Randle + Knox + Ellington + Franc
for
Brad Beal and Bertans?

(https://i.gifer.com/7w5y.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 17, 2019, 07:49:17 PM
WOOD lands in Detroit

Blazers looking at Howard
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on July 17, 2019, 11:30:42 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 16, 2019, 03:07:28 PM
Doesnt take a damn thing from Barrett or Trier

You wanted to see Fiz coach a better roster - so you have to allow him to give the vets minutes

Agreed.

The youngins prove themselves they will get time. They can also come off the bench and get minutes. I don't see many starting. The team has to do better. We were in a lot of games I should say last season for a while, but tanking ain't what it used to be.

27-30 wins minimum is required, as sad as that sounds.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on July 17, 2019, 11:50:31 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 17, 2019, 03:28:12 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on July 16, 2019, 08:02:34 PM
If the best-case scenario for RJ unfolds - a big if, granted- he's going to be a good enough playmaker that you don't need a traditional PG at the 1. A scorer like Allonzo (if he develops enough to merit a starting spot) or the defensive-minded Ntilikina (if he becomes George Hill, which was my hope pre-draft) will suffice at the 1.

It takes a really special wing to be the functional PG.  Pippen, Harden LeBJ, etc.

Quote
If he doesn't develop a reliable shot or become a stopper defensively, he risks becoming a burlier Evan Turner. That's his floor. His ceiling is very high, and predicated on his motivation to be great helping him overcome his apparent early shortcomings. I'm a bigger believer than most.

I've thought of the Ev Turner comp as well.  (A #2 pick, btw).
Turner has disappointed due to his lack of an outside shot and poor D, plus being a good but not great playmaker.  But he's been a reasonable NBA player.  I hope that's Barrett's floor.  Because the worst-case scenario is his poor outside shooting causes him to be less effective in other areas (driving, creating) and lose confidence.  And the NAB has changed from 7-10 years ago (early EvTurner days) whereas the 3 is now expected of everyone on the court.  Another possible comparison is Wiggins.

I've seen very very little of RJrB so far.  His drives are physical and often odd-looking.  Will they work in the NBA?  Are they tricky enough to succeed, because he forces shots off his drives.  Can he drive right?  If you can't hit 3's and only drive left, NBA defenses will stop you.

I need to see his handle and playmaking.  And more of his shot.  But I think he's far from a sure thing.  He's ultra-young, so there's that uncertainty too.  A lot depends on Knix development  coaching.  At least Barrett is said to be a hard-worker.

Coaching can help, but I think more depends on him. Again, Of what I read, and have seen (not a lot, just to be fair) I'm not as high as Biz and as some of our loud fanbase is on him.

Hard to see him ever being a defensive stopper based on what we've seen as well.

I hope he comes good and will be rooting for him all the way.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 18, 2019, 05:29:52 AM
I think we're stuck in nowheresville.
A whole new set of teammates.
No lead dog.
3 promising yute who are very young and going to tkae years to hit their stride.  We really need one of Barrett/Knox to reach near all-star level.  Or at least both to become viable starters (down the road, not this year).  And Mitch to become a solid C, with strong defense.

And of course we need to get a starting quality PG.
I didn't see that much of the Knix last 15+ games and consequently didn't get a good read on Jr. Smith.  For now, he's pretty crucial. [I have no idea if Kam's suggestion of using a 19 year old rook wing as starting PG was serious or not -- I thought it was a parody at first, then became unsure]

I'll wait to see how things look in pre-season and get a glimpse of the schedule and the rest of the East, but right now I was thinking 33 W's or so.  We might be a very random team, looking great one game, or 1/4, and terrible other times.

Areas of concern:
- 3 point shooting.  Barrett & Jr. Smith -- possibly our starying backcourt -- can't hit 3's.  Ellington might be our best 3-shooter and I'm hoping he doesn't play much.
- Defense.  Lotta yute.  Barrett, Knox, Jr. SMith weak defenders.  Add Portis as well.  Randle not a shotblocker or good out to the perimeter.  Is anyone but Mitch and Taj a + defender? 
- Chemistry.  Lotta new guys.  A few very young guys.  Lotta comp for minutes.  And quite a few on 1 + option  deals.  Not really the recipe for coming together. 
- Point Guard play.  Jr. SMith,  Elfrid,  Franc.  Likely a Bottom 5 PG rotation.  (I'd need to look around and make sure)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on July 18, 2019, 07:10:09 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 17, 2019, 03:17:46 PM
Just getting started:

How about Randle + Knox + Ellington + Franc
for
Brad Beal and Mahinmi?

Knix consolidate some players into an all-star.
Mahinmi an ending contract.


Think they'd want more, tbh. As you concede, they may not have a need for Randle. Ellington makes more sense on a contender. Ntilikina may or may not be rated by the Wiz.

I think we should target Beal. The most obvious deal is:

Beal/Wall/two or three minimum players for Portis/Mook/Payton/Ellington/Taj/Knox (or if we can get away with it, Trier)

Wall has the worst contract in the league. The Knicks are the team best suited to absorb that terrible contract since acquiring Beal would mean passing on free agency and building around Beal/Randle/DSJ/RJ/Knox or Trier/Meech/Ntilikina/Braz and a lot of picks which can be used to aggregate in trades. And then the Knicks just pay the inevitable luxury tax in a few years, which others teams will want to eschew.

The drawback is with that anchor of a contract it really becomes difficult to improve the team in the medium term. It's hard to see Wall returning to all-star form; more likely he isn't good enough or healthy enough to start 70 games a year ever again.

Would you do such a deal, given it does not involve picks?

A more complicated version of the deal is finding a team that really wants Mook for a playoff run and is willing to trade a pick for him. It's tough to see who that is - maybe Atlanta would trade the Brooklyn first and Chandler Parsons for Mook + Ellington? If so, we flip Parsons and the pick over to Washington so we can keep Knox (or maybe keep the pick ourselves?).

If we're trying to acquire Beal without taking on Wall, I'm afraid the price will get pretty high. They're going to ask for Mitch or RJ. Even if they agree to DSJ (say, DSJ/Portis/Ellington), they're going to want our pick this year and the Dallas pick next year.

If they'd take Knox/Portis/Ellington and our top-5 protected pick this year and our pick next year, I'd happily do it. I' m worried that won't be enough.
Title: Re: Summer of movement
Post by: thebizneverloses on July 18, 2019, 07:20:13 AM
Quote from: Kam on July 17, 2019, 04:31:37 PM
This free agency saw 6 of the All-NBA players switch teams.

I'm interested to see who trades for Kevin Love (Indiana?), Cp3 (Miami? Philly?), Beal etc.

The player that's the best fit for us is KAT.

Wolves will want to ditch one of Dieng and Wiggins - two of the most unappealing contracts in the league. We have the expirings and youth and picks to put together a package to take on both, which no other team can offer. If the Knicks really believe in DSJ, this trade works: http://tradenba.com/trades/r1L9HRabr (http://tradenba.com/trades/r1L9HRabr)

Would leave the Knicks with a starting lineup of DSJ/RJ/Wiggins/Mook/KAT, which could be playoff bound in the East but is still very young. Would have Frank/Zo/Bullocks or Braz/Vonleh/Dieng as a so-so bench with the potential to be much better next year. Would miss some of that veteran leadership, sure, but the point is KAT is an All-NBA type. Could even try to flip Wiggins and a couple of picks for Beal, which would definitely make for a dangerous team at that point.

I'd be aggressive after KAT.
Title: Re: RJ Barrett
Post by: thebizneverloses on July 18, 2019, 07:20:58 AM
Quote from: Kam on July 17, 2019, 05:29:42 PM
If his floor is Evan Turner his ceiling is around Ben Simmons.   Why not let RJ run the point?


RJ B
Wayne E
Marcus M
Julius R
Mitchell R

Bobby P  and TaJ first off the bench

IsoZo and Knox for scoring off the pine.

RJ can't defend 1s. He'll even struggle with 2s. DSJ has to play poorly to lose his spot at the 1.
Title: Re: Summer of movement
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 18, 2019, 10:02:12 AM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on July 18, 2019, 07:20:13 AM
Quote from: Kam on July 17, 2019, 04:31:37 PM
This free agency saw 6 of the All-NBA players switch teams.

I'm interested to see who trades for Kevin Love (Indiana?), Cp3 (Miami? Philly?), Beal etc.

The player that's the best fit for us is KAT.

Wolves will want to ditch one of Dieng and Wiggins - two of the most unappealing contracts in the league. We have the expirings and youth and picks to put together a package to take on both, which no other team can offer. If the Knicks really believe in DSJ, this trade works: http://tradenba.com/trades/r1L9HRabr (http://tradenba.com/trades/r1L9HRabr)



Pass
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 18, 2019, 10:45:05 AM
Kornet 2 years guaranteed with Bulls.  4.5 mil
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 18, 2019, 11:47:08 AM
Stars and other good players become available often for all sorts of reasons.  So I wouldn't take on Wall to get Beal.  Beal isn't a franchise changer.  Just a very nice player.

I'd like to get KAT too, but don't see why Minn would give him away just to move some clumsy contracts.

Knix best bet is to develop RJB, Knox and Mitch, and maybe Jr. Smith into a nice young core.  Add in some players who contribute and set a tone -- hopefully Randle is one.  And then pursue a star when we have an appealing team, and have upped the trade value of our current assets.  Might take a few years.  BKY pulled off such a feat.
Title: Quote Function
Post by: carlos123 on July 18, 2019, 01:29:26 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 18, 2019, 11:47:08 AM
Stars and other good players become available often for all sorts of reasons.  So I wouldn't take on Wall to get Beal.  Beal isn't a franchise changer.  Just a very nice player.

I'd like to get KAT too, but don't see why Minn would give him away just to move some clumsy contracts.

Knix best bet is to develop RJB, Knox and Mitch, and maybe Jr. Smith into a nice young core.  Add in some players who contribute and set a tone -- hopefully Randle is one.  And then pursue a star when we have an appealing team, and have upped the trade value of our current assets.  Might take a few years.  BKY pulled off such a feat.

Huh? Change of heart? All of a sudden you’re making a lotta sense. No more crazy trades? Good!!!

Making so much sense I had to use your favorite function. 👏
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 18, 2019, 02:27:15 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 18, 2019, 11:47:08 AM


Knix best bet is to develop RJB, Knox and Mitch, and maybe Jr. Smith into a nice young core.  Add in some players who contribute and set a tone -- hopefully Randle is one.  And then pursue a star when we have an appealing team, and have upped the trade value of our current assets. 

Attaboy

Besides, we won't know til next week if Beal is available.  Wiz will offer a 3-111 extension which will be hard for BB to turn down.  If he accepts - it is the 5 year Beal plan in WASH.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 18, 2019, 03:46:40 PM
I'm willing to be patient.
I was all for the tank last year.
And getting a high pick.
Combined with the yute development, I count last year a success.

For this year, I'm much more interested in the development of Knox, Barrett, Mitch, Trier,  Jr. Smith, Datsun (and Portis and Franc) than whether Morris Taj and Ellington can help us win a few extra games.  It'd be great if Knix built a team organically from the draft up.  Even if that takes 4 or 5 years to get us to be a 2nd round playoff team.

Conversely, I do think this overstuffed roster signals an in-season trade, or at least would benefit from one.
Title: Wolf and Leopard have come to kill the sheep and the shepherd
Post by: Kam on July 18, 2019, 07:30:56 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 18, 2019, 03:46:40 PM
I do think this overstuffed roster signals an in-season trade, or at least would benefit from one.

The entire roster is so new that whoever we trade away (save maybe Mitch) wouldn't be missed by the sentimental members of the fanbase.  That is kinda cool.  Also kinda unnerving.  Like i'm just rooting for laundry at this point.

However, as i live and work in Brooklyn, just as i lived and worked in New Jersey's finals runs, i won't be jumping on the flat-earth hipster bandwagon that just became the Nets and throwing my lifelong Knick affiliation aside.

Even though they've shown me no loyalty to longterm favorite players, in fact they've been downright hostile to knicks alumni and fans, it really shows a lack of character to jump ship now.

In fact, i predict the Nets will have a poorer record this year than they had last season.  TAKE THAT for data!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 18, 2019, 07:59:40 PM
I disagree Kam.  Already love Randle and Payton
Title: Re: Wolf and Leopard have come to kill the sheep and the shepherd
Post by: carlos123 on July 18, 2019, 10:22:57 PM
Quote from: Kam on July 18, 2019, 07:30:56 PM

In fact, i predict the Nets will have a poorer record this year than they had last season.  TAKE THAT for data!

Of course the will have a poorer record. They have Kyrie and let D'Angelo go. They'll be a mess.
Title: Re: Wolf and Leopard have come to kill the sheep and the shepherd
Post by: Kam on July 19, 2019, 01:24:38 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on July 18, 2019, 10:22:57 PM
Quote from: Kam on July 18, 2019, 07:30:56 PM

In fact, i predict the Nets will have a poorer record this year than they had last season.  TAKE THAT for data!

Of course the will have a poorer record. They have Kyrie and let D'Angelo go. They'll be a mess.

The good chemistry in Boston was undone by Kyrie.  Same could happen in Brooklyn.  They've built nothing yet.  Nothing but grand expectations.  I'm actually relieved they got the "Prize" in free agency as all that money still leads to question marks.  They won't be that plucky upstart to root for anymore.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 19, 2019, 09:23:04 AM
Yeah, they'll miss their GLUE GUY, their leader, D'Angelo.

Heh

- I assume they will start Harris with Kyrie and let Spencer come off the pine.  But lots of options, including a twin towers look if they so choose.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 19, 2019, 10:19:03 AM
ESPn article about younger and younger ballers getting mid-career type injuries.  Especially those who specialize in hoops.  Article begins with Randle breaking his leg in his 1st NBA game.  Already had a stress fracture coming into the NBA.
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27125793/these-kids-ticking-bombs-threat-youth-basketball
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 19, 2019, 10:52:54 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 19, 2019, 10:19:03 AM
ESPn article about younger and younger ballers getting mid-career injuries.  Especially those who specialize in hoops.  Article begins with Randle breaking his leg in his 1st NBA game.  Already had a stress fracture coming into the NBA.
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27125793/these-kids-ticking-bombs-threat-youth-basketball

excellent piece,thanks

"Think about it as the tip of the iceberg. What you see on the top of the water is really skillful, very athletic kids, especially now even in high school. You get a sophomore that can do a 360-degree dunk whereas 20 years ago you never saw that. You see kind of the good outcome, which is improved skill, improved athleticism. But down below, their movement quality is suffering, and a lot of these kids just move absolutely terrible. You're like, 'How can a kid jump 38 inches when they can't even stand on one leg?'"
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 19, 2019, 01:12:36 PM
On some of the same themes, here's an interesting hour long discussion between David Epstein and Malcolm Gladwell at the Sloane Sports Analytics Conference.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RqIa09AvDU
Epstein argues that early sports specialization is harmful, as it leads to burnout, injuries and a limited athletic profile.  Similar to much in that ESPn article.  Gladwell, of the famous 10,000 hour dictum, is persuaded and basically renounces his grind-away-for-success theory.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 21, 2019, 09:56:12 AM
You can almost make a full team from all the still unaffiliated FA's who are ex-Knicks:

Melo, Linsane, Crawford, Lance, Trey Burke,
Noah, Felt, Calderon, Troy Williams, Shump.
JEarl Smith, (Amare).

TyC just hooked with HOU.

Maybe that dozen ex-Knickers could go to China as one team and battle the CBA.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 21, 2019, 12:52:29 PM
Noah is with Grizzlies

Lin also hooked up
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 21, 2019, 01:00:51 PM
Knicks keep Wooten on Exhibit 10 deal

Lose Cavanaugh to Alba Berlin
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 21, 2019, 01:45:26 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 21, 2019, 12:52:29 PM
Noah is with Grizzlies
Lin also hooked up

You might be right, but I cant find anything about either of them agreeing to a new deal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 21, 2019, 09:11:35 PM
No only is nothing published about either Lin or Noah returning to the Raps and Grizz, a look at hoopshype salaries shows that there would need to be cuts made to accommodate them if they came back.

Ready for the worlds now.
Title: Not Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on July 21, 2019, 09:18:39 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 21, 2019, 01:45:26 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 21, 2019, 12:52:29 PM
Noah is with Grizzlies
Lin also hooked up

You might be right, but I cant find anything about either of them agreeing to a new deal.

https://www.blazersedge.com/2019/7/21/20702825/trail-blazers-nba-free-agency-dwight-howard-jeremy-lin (https://www.blazersedge.com/2019/7/21/20702825/trail-blazers-nba-free-agency-dwight-howard-jeremy-lin)

Noah was only signed with Memphis to the end of the past season. But Knicks will pay his salary for next. I don't think he's signed or expected to sign with anybody as of now.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 21, 2019, 09:33:53 PM
yes
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 21, 2019, 10:10:01 PM
http://www.spotrac.com/nba/memphis-grizzlies/joakim-noah-2248/ (http://www.spotrac.com/nba/memphis-grizzlies/joakim-noah-2248/)

If you know someone, maybe you could get him a job...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 22, 2019, 08:21:32 AM
Noah has multiple NBA teams interested - and an offer in New Zealand
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 22, 2019, 01:52:49 PM
 I’ve heard about the offer in New Zealand.

Do we want our hatchlings running with team Canada this Worlds?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 22, 2019, 05:39:27 PM
Positives to playing and not playing.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 23, 2019, 04:50:46 AM
I might have to league pass the Thunder this year. The question will be if they can hold up on the wing. I think they have a roster spot. If they do, they should maybe take a look at one Lance Thomas, who defends diligently in and out and even hits some threes. He’ll take their minimum if they’ll give it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 23, 2019, 08:42:29 AM
I certainly like their guards - even those who may not see much time

Galinari, Noel and Schroder are key talents that will tip the scale one way or another
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 23, 2019, 11:39:40 AM
JULIUS RANDLE added to Team USA training camp roster
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 23, 2019, 11:48:41 AM
Jaylen Brown alsoa ttending

Players dropping out recently

Lillard
A Davis
Harden
Beal
McCollum
E Gordon
T Harris

Marcus Smart is being considwered - and WOULD attend

D'Angelo Russell and Aaron Gordon also on the possibles list
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 23, 2019, 11:51:39 AM
I would like to see a couple of BIG THREE players included.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 23, 2019, 11:54:42 AM
https://www.scmp.com/business/china-business/article/3019719/yao-mings-post-nba-retirement-plan-napa-valleys-wine
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 23, 2019, 01:57:31 PM
Quote
Those teams -- and the league office -- are reckoning post-Kawhi with what the endgame of player empowerment might look like. When will a superstar coming off his rookie deal sign the one-year qualifying offer -- allowing him to enter unrestricted free agency after his fifth season and signaling his intention to leave?

Qualifying offers are getting huge now -- into the $15 million-plus range for top draft picks. That is about half of what those players could earn in that one season by signing new long-term max contracts, but it's life-changing money. What if a player really wants out? What if he has a huge shoe deal?

Reportedly KZ was thinking of doing this.

Not sure why Zach Lowe thinks this is so drastic.  It's clearly how rook contracts are set up.  Most rooks re-sign with their teams or become restricted FA's.  But taking a one year offer and becoming and UFA has appeal, though with the injury risk that comes with a one year deal.
Title: NOT KNICKS
Post by: carlos123 on July 23, 2019, 10:07:43 PM
Not Knicks, but too much fun to pass up. Prince of Whales, United Kingston, ...

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EAKSp9BX4AATnoR.jpg:large)

Who said this lady cannot represent US? SECRETARY OF STATE 2020!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 23, 2019, 10:26:44 PM
The smart ones in that family have always been the girls.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 24, 2019, 12:33:17 AM
Yes.  Bright future.
Title: United KINGSTON
Post by: carlos123 on July 24, 2019, 12:58:51 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 24, 2019, 12:33:17 AM
Yes.  Bright future.

Sure, in Jamaica 🇯🇲, or would it be in Kingston-on-Thames?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 24, 2019, 02:10:43 AM
Fishkill, NY. You can tell by her cold dead eyes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 24, 2019, 04:17:45 AM
Trier might be our young guard with the most potential, especially if we’re getting 1/2 court distribution from both Barrett and Randle.

Portis Randle Gibson Barrett Trier. You get legit shooting from the 5 and 1, and everyone else you hope ups their efficiency by better selection and better opportunities. In football terms Taj is your middle linebacker/center, organizing the blocking and the D. While Trier and Portis camp in the corners, you can do Taj / Julius double screens for Barrett which through pops, dribble handoffs, and confusion can lead to any one of them in the short roll with three defenders behind him. Alternately, a small forward will wind up defending one of Portis, Randle, or Gibson. That’s a recipe to post, isolate, and punish until the doubles start to come. You also get a lot of rebounding out of this group and a lot of fiery attitude. There is muscle and mobility in good measures. You’d need a big jump defensively from Randle or Portis and nearly average D out of the Box from Barrett otherwise the lineup would not work. If it did work, you could attack second units with Mitch Morris Knox DJS Payton. If Payton or DJS are hitting threes, you can swap back Trier and make that guy your starter.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 24, 2019, 05:04:55 AM
I’m going to look at the pups and state how I see their games in terms of former Knicks players. This won’t be in terms of production, but how the move, what they look for, where they go, and who they cover. Unstatistical, unscientific, and I’ll probably make some weird choices. I know. I’ll then add what they should pick up from which current vets.

Mitch - Camby & Mutumbo - everything from Taj, getting and hitting jumpers from Portis

Knox - Tim Thomas & Wil Chandler - everything from Taj & Morris, work off the ball from Bullock and Ellington

Trier - N8 & Derek Harper - floor game and D from Payton, off ball work from Ellington

Frank - Ro Blackman & Doug Christie - everything he can from Payton, Bullock, and Ellington

Dotson - JR Smith & Courtney Lee - study Morris, Bullock, and Ellington, Taj

Ignas - Landry Fields & Jason Kidd - absorb Morris, Bullock, Ellington, Taj

Barrett - Jalen Rose & Glen Rice - study Morris, Bullock, Ellington, Payton

Don’t know if it was worth much, but I feel better.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 24, 2019, 09:52:15 AM
Durant’s familiarity and comfort level with the Nets medical staff was a major determining factor in him ultimately signing a deal to come to Brooklyn. While most critics are scoffing at the thought of Durant seeing the hardwood this upcoming season, according to Weinfeld, Durant’s chances are exceedingly better than that of injured Wizards star John Wall’s. “A point guard plays a different kind of game than Kevin Durant does,” noted Dr. Weinfeld. “An explosive type athlete, his demand is different than that of Kevin Durant’s. You talk about odds of coming back to where he was, I think Durant’s odds are better than an athlete like John Wall whose whole game is quickness and explosiveness. He [Wall] counts much more on those muscles being exactly where they need to be as opposed to a player like Durant and his style. – via Nets Insider


Such BS
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 24, 2019, 09:55:03 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 24, 2019, 05:04:55 AM
I’m going to look at the pups and state how I see their games in terms of former Knicks players. This won’t be in terms of production, but how the move, what they look for, where they go, and who they cover. Unstatistical, unscientific, and I’ll probably make some weird choices. I know. I’ll then add what they should pick up from which current vets.

Mitch - Camby & Mutumbo - everything from Taj, getting and hitting jumpers from Portis

Knox - Tim Thomas & Wil Chandler - everything from Taj & Morris, work off the ball from Bullock and Ellington

Trier - N8 & Derek Harper - floor game and D from Payton, off ball work from Ellington

Frank - Ro Blackman & Doug Christie - everything he can from Payton, Bullock, and Ellington

Dotson - JR Smith & Courtney Lee - study Morris, Bullock, and Ellington, Taj

Ignas - Landry Fields & Jason Kidd - absorb Morris, Bullock, Ellington, Taj

Barrett - Jalen Rose & Glen Rice - study Morris, Bullock, Ellington, Payton

Don’t know if it was worth much, but I feel better.

You know Payton is just 25, right?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 24, 2019, 10:41:47 AM
Uncle Dennis could be in some hot water

The N.B.A. has begun an investigation into how teams handled free agency this summer, focusing on whether improper inducements were offered to players to circumvent the salary cap, according to a person with direct knowledge of the situation. – via New York Times
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 24, 2019, 06:28:18 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 24, 2019, 09:55:03 AM
You know Payton is just 25, right?

You are right. I looked at our draftees & Trier.

Randle, Portis, Elfrid, and Dennis are all young, upsided, unfinished players. They’d be worth doing.

Taj is Taj. Marcus is Marcus. The same can be said about Reggie & Wayne.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 24, 2019, 07:47:30 PM
Player - Shades of - look to learn froms

Randle - LJ & Mason - D from Taj, everything from Morris, floor game from Payton

Portis - Charles Smith & Rasheed Wallace - everything from Taj and Morris, setting up shots from Bullock

Payton - Mark Jackson & Jarred Jack - everything from Ellington, setting up a bucket from Trier

DJS - Steve Francis & Ray Felton - everything from Ellington, everything but shooting from EP
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 24, 2019, 09:29:54 PM
Flynn & Kian’s illegal acts just closed a basketball camp on Long Island. More memorable works from Deficit Don.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 25, 2019, 03:39:45 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 24, 2019, 07:47:30 PM
Player - Shades of - look to learn froms

Randle - LJ & Mason - D from Taj, everything from Morris, floor game from Payton

LJ and Mason were tough defenders, who could also generate offense.  Rugged two-way players.

I was thinking Randle was more like Spencer Haywood or Mo Lucas.  To go a little throwback on ya.
Inside bruisers who boarded. 

Late 70's/early 80's were an odd time where the Knix cycled through quality PF's regularly.  Knix brought in Spencer Haywood for 75-76.  He was solid (19.3 & 10.9) on a mediocre team with Clyde & Pearl.  Then the next year Haywood got injured and we had Lonnie Shelton as a rook.  After 2 seasons he left as compensation for us signing The Human Eraser (Marv Webster).
One year later, we traded a fading Haywood for an uninspired Joe Meriweather. 

We drafted Cartwright to have 2 Big C's.
Brought in Mo Lucas for 81-82.  he was solid. 16 & 11.
But we flipped him for an aging Truck Robinson, coming off a 19 & 9.7 year at age 30.  But he aged quickly the next two Knick seasons and then retired.

I remember being excited about Knick PF's, then we had good C's but no PF's, and then back to good PF's briefly (Mo Lucas & Truck).  It wasn't until Summer of 88 that we got another high quality PF, when we flipped Mr. Bill for Oak.  In between, James Bailey, Ken the Animal Bannister, Bob Thornton, etc.
 
Anyway, Haywood and Mo Luke looked like PF stalwarts, but we really got just one solid season out of both.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 25, 2019, 05:01:44 AM
Pitino is as far back as my direct awareness of the franchise goes.

I’m taking your word on everyone you mentioned.

If Randle pulled his D to Mase/LJ levels, he would be greatly rewarded... by our press.

The initiator responsibility and the ability to put bigger guys in the blender coming down the lane were the main things that called them to mind. The motor and court gravity as well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 25, 2019, 05:46:59 AM
Mo Lucas won a title as a rook with Walton in Portland.
He was a tough guy, fairly mobile.
Didn't back down.
Was known as The Enforcer.
Folks didn't want to mess with him.
He was also an intelligent cat.

Maybe Chip or another oldhead can chime in on why after one season we flipped him for Truck Robinson, who was a few years older and less of a post-up threat (though mean on the boards).
I was just settling in for some Mo Luke, and then he was gone.

Kind of usual for teams to trade starting PF's.  PHX certainly got the best of the deal.  Largely because Truck started breaking down after one season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 25, 2019, 12:57:01 PM
Knicks went to the second round with Truck 2 straight years after his acquisition.  We added 11 wins - then 3 more in his 2 full years

Lucas did go to the playoffs first 2 years with Phoenix

A bit of a wash - though Maurice's numbers were better
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 25, 2019, 02:38:20 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 25, 2019, 12:57:01 PM
Knicks went to the second round with Truck 2 straight years after his acquisition.  We added 11 wins - then 3 more in his 2 full years

Well, the big addition and the reason we won 11 more was a 26 year old Bernard King.   2nd most important might have been Hubie coming on board to coach.

And I think part of the problem was Truck wasn't a great fit next to Bernard or in Hubie's schemes.  I seem to recall Truck not seeming in sync and his game not meshing with NYK.  Somewhat like Webster, Truck was a monster in the West (who nobody in the East saw in those days), then came to NY and underperformed before getting injured.
___________________________________________________________
 
Another weird Knick era was when we kept cycling through PG's.
First we had Michael Ray & Ray Williams, then we didn't.
Then Hubie had a whole corps of okay G's.
Then a few years later we blew through Jax, Strickland, Cheeks, DoC Rivers, Greg Anthony.
That'd be early Pat Ewing days.
Just seemed whenever we had a viable quality starting PG, we ditched him quickly for another candidate.  Finally settling on Chollie "Good Effort" Ward.
Title: Summer Standouts
Post by: Kam on July 25, 2019, 02:45:50 PM
Summer League First Team
 
Nickeil Alexander-Walker (NOP) 17/2019
Brandon Clarke (MEM) 21/2019
Mitchell Robinson (NYK) 36/2018
Kendrick Nunn (MIA) UDFA/2018
Jarrett Allen (BRK) 22/2017

Summer League Second Team

Jaxson Hayes (NOP) 8/2019
Rui Hachimura (WAS) 9/2019
Lonnie Walker (SAS) 18/2018
Anfernee Simons (POR) 24/2018
Chris Boucher (TOR) UDFA/2017
Title: Bullock won't play much this season
Post by: Kam on July 25, 2019, 03:02:03 PM
Reggie Bullock may not see the basketball court until 2020.

According to a leading orthopedic surgeon who specializes in sports back injuries, the “cervical disk herniation” surgery Bullock underwent last week normally requires six months of recovery time before a player can compete with contact.

The operation is usually referred to as spinal fusion surgery and it means Bullock could be out until mid-January, forcing the Knicks’ new signee to miss the 2019 portion of the team’s schedule.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 25, 2019, 03:25:41 PM
I'd be fine with Bullocks and Duke Ellington not playing this year, or playing sparingly.

Sorry that it took an injury to clear Reg Bull from our rotation, but his injury did also free up the cap space to acquire Morris.  So a pretty well-timed injury.  Though i still think poaching an otherwise committed PF we didn't really need was a bit slimy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on July 25, 2019, 03:42:24 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 25, 2019, 03:25:41 PM
I still think poaching an otherwise committed PF we didn't really need was a bit slimy.

https://sports.yahoo.com/report-knicks-unhappy-with-spurs-felt-they-crossed-lines-with-kristaps-porzingis-011733906.html (https://sports.yahoo.com/report-knicks-unhappy-with-spurs-felt-they-crossed-lines-with-kristaps-porzingis-011733906.html)
Title: Re: Summer Standouts
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 25, 2019, 03:45:24 PM
Quote from: Kam on July 25, 2019, 02:45:50 PM
Summer League First Team
 
Nickeil Alexander-Walker (NOP) 17/2019
Brandon Clarke (MEM) 21/2019
Mitchell Robinson (NYK) 36/2018
Kendrick Nunn (MIA) UDFA/2018
Jarrett Allen (BRK) 22/2017

Summer League Second Team

Jaxson Hayes (NOP) 8/2019
Rui Hachimura (WAS) 9/2019
Lonnie Walker (SAS) 18/2018
Anfernee Simons (POR) 24/2018
Chris Boucher (TOR) UDFA/2017

Go, Zags
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 26, 2019, 12:54:47 PM
Washington got the third best guy on that team. What order did they get picked in?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on July 26, 2019, 03:04:27 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 26, 2019, 12:54:47 PM
Washington got the third best guy on that team. What order did they get picked in?

I listed their draft position.  Rui went 9.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 26, 2019, 03:27:05 PM
Not quite as bad as selecting Cam Reddish #1 overall would have been, but as close as you can get dealing with the Zags.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 26, 2019, 05:26:30 PM
Ceasers Palace Sportsbook put out its win totals for next season.

Milwaukee Bucks 57
LA Clippers 55½
Philadelphia 76ers 54½
Utah Jazz 52½
Houston Rockets 52
Denver Nuggets 52
Los Angeles Lakers 51½

Indiana Pacers 48½
Boston Celtics 49½
Portland Trail Blazers 47½
Golden State Warriors 47
Brooklyn Nets 47
Toronto Raptors 45
San Antonio Spurs 43½
Miami Heat 43½

Dallas Mavericks 41
Orlando Magic 40½
New Orleans Pelicans 39
Detroit Pistons 37½
Sacramento Kings 37
Atlanta Hawks 36
Minnesota Timberwolves 35
Chicago Bulls 30½

Washington Wizards 28½
Oklahoma City Thunder 28
New York Knicks 27
Phoenix Suns 27
Memphis Grizzlies 25½
Cleveland Cavaliers 24
Charlotte Hornets 24
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 26, 2019, 05:38:05 PM
They only see 3 teams having a worse record than NYK.
And Knix tying with Suns at 27 W's.

Looks like the Celts # is wrong.
At that position, they should be 48.5 or 47.5.

Heat a playoff team and over .500?
I'll need to check what they did this off-season.
Whiteside and Josh Rich are gone.
Butler in.  I guess if Dragic is healthy, maybe ...

Pels at 39 and Hawks at 36 sound high.
Again, I'll need to refresh who is where.
But I wouldn't expect those two teams to be that good.

[Edit: Pels added Reddick, Favors and of course Zion.  And all of those Lake yute.  And their other 2 rooks are interesting as well.  Lotta new faces together -- I think only 3 or 4 holdovers form last year.  Interesting team.  Will try to catch some of their games]

45 sounds low for the Raps.  Unless they blow things up mid-season.

i'd bet the Under for ATL & the Over for TOR.
Title: NOT KNICKS
Post by: carlos123 on July 26, 2019, 09:48:35 PM
I just had to change my avatar.

(https://specials-images.forbesimg.com/imageserve/5d3a21c2090f4300070d9db2/960x0.jpg?fit=scale)

LMAO
Title: Re: NOT KNICKS
Post by: facilitatorn on July 26, 2019, 10:00:57 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on July 26, 2019, 09:48:35 PM
I just had to change my avatar.

(https://specials-images.forbesimg.com/imageserve/5d3a21c2090f4300070d9db2/960x0.jpg?fit=scale)

LMAO

You are the best.

I’m sticking with mine.

Smoochy-poo, boys. Smoochy-poo.
Title: Re: NOT KNICKS
Post by: carlos123 on July 27, 2019, 12:13:55 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 26, 2019, 10:00:57 PM

You are the best.

I’m sticking with mine.

Smoochy-poo, boys. Smoochy-poo.

Thank you Fac, and I love your avatar too...

But what about if everybody (but one) had the REAL SEAL for a day or two?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 27, 2019, 04:28:06 AM
It has begun.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 27, 2019, 05:25:44 AM
Real quickly, like 3 mins and without looking at rosters, or checking anything, I'm going to Bold my Over predictions; Italicize my Unders and Underline my Evens:

Quote from: bodiddley on July 26, 2019, 05:26:30 PM

Milwaukee Bucks 57
LA Clippers 55½
Philadelphia 76ers 54½
Utah Jazz 52½
Houston Rockets 52
Denver Nuggets 52
Los Angeles Lakers 51½

Indiana Pacers 48½
Boston Celtics 49½
Portland Trail Blazers 47½
Golden State Warriors 47
Brooklyn Nets 47
Toronto Raptors 45
San Antonio Spurs 43½
Miami Heat 43½

Dallas Mavericks 41
Orlando Magic 40½
New Orleans Pelicans 39
Detroit Pistons 37½
Sacramento Kings 37
Atlanta Hawks 36
Minnesota Timberwolves 35
Chicago Bulls 30½

Washington Wizards 28½
Oklahoma City Thunder 28
New York Knicks 27
Phoenix Suns 27
Memphis Grizzlies 25½
Cleveland Cavaliers 24
Charlotte Hornets 24

15 Unders; 10 Overs; 5 Pushes

Hard to predict the bottom-dwellers.
OKC should win more than 28 with CP3; but likely they find a new home for him, in which case they're sub-28.  Maybe Paul for 1/2 a season gets them exactly 28.

I can see LAC jumping out to a fast start, overwhelming teams with D and athleticism.  Until guys start missing games (Pa Bev; maybe one of the two new stars), and teams start figuring them out some.

I go over on the good continuity teams ie DEN, UTA, POR.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on July 27, 2019, 08:17:28 AM
Random Knick fan moment abroad:

I'm in the Philippines right now, turn on the TV in my hotel room...one game on... Senator Manny Pacquiao in the audience, goes to time out...turn to another game on ESPN5...happens to be game 1 of the semi-finals, between San Miguel and Rain or Shine...

I notice someone who looks AWFULLY familiar gliding down the court...in dreads....

Renaldo Balkman!

Last play he just swooped past the entire defense and flew up for a high off the glass layup in traffic. Still got the hops, that's for sure.

Also, former Net 1st round pick Chris McCullough also in action...Guess bo knows him from China. Just joined apparently last month.

That's a lot of NYers in one game here!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 27, 2019, 08:52:11 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 26, 2019, 12:54:47 PM
Washington got the third best guy on that team. What order did they get picked in?

Hachimura was FIRST.  He was selected a full FOUR spots later than was projected at an earlier time in some mocks, which I was told were "way, wayyyyy off".

If you actually SEE a guy play more than just one-two tourney games, it helps generate an opinion.  Advice for future like situations.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 27, 2019, 11:14:59 AM
I'll play



Ceasers Palace Sportsbook put out its win totals for next season.


Milwaukee Bucks 57   over
LA Clippers 55½       under
Philadelphia 76ers 54½    over
Utah Jazz 52½      under
Houston Rockets 52       over
Denver Nuggets 52      over
Los Angeles Lakers 51½       over

Indiana Pacers 48½        under
Boston Celtics 49½      under
Portland Trail Blazers 47½        over
Golden State Warriors 47      under
Brooklyn Nets 47      under
Toronto Raptors 45     over
San Antonio Spurs 43½      over
Miami Heat 43½         over

Dallas Mavericks 41        over
Orlando Magic 40½      over
New Orleans Pelicans 39       over
Detroit Pistons 37½      under
Sacramento Kings 37     over
Atlanta Hawks 36        over
Minnesota Timberwolves 35      over
Chicago Bulls 30½       under

Washington Wizards 28½      under
Oklahoma City Thunder 28       under
New York Knicks 27      under
Phoenix Suns 27        under
Memphis Grizzlies 25½       under
Cleveland Cavaliers 24       over
Charlotte Hornets 24      over
Title: New Seal
Post by: carlos123 on July 27, 2019, 11:19:57 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 27, 2019, 04:28:06 AM
It has begun.

Nice! 👍
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 27, 2019, 04:48:58 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 27, 2019, 08:52:11 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 26, 2019, 12:54:47 PM
Washington got the third best guy on that team. What order did they get picked in?

Hachimura was FIRST.  He was selected a full FOUR spots later than was projected at an earlier time in some mocks, which I was told were "way, wayyyyy off".

If you actually SEE a guy play more than just one-two tourney games, it helps generate an opinion.  Advice for future like situations.

I’ve seen him plenty. He was the third best player on his college team and he’ll make the third best pro from that group. He’s quick and consistent while also being basic and predictable. He’s going to be a Jeff Green/Marvin Williams type if he can develop his D. He may just be a very low rent Harrison Barnes.

There will be a Zag on the all rookie team. That Zag won’t be Rui.

—————

Good to hear Balkman is still at it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 27, 2019, 08:43:00 PM
http://nypost.com/2019/07/27/bobby-portis-eyes-sixth-man-of-the-year-as-knicks-bench-leader/ (http://nypost.com/2019/07/27/bobby-portis-eyes-sixth-man-of-the-year-as-knicks-bench-leader/)

First up: Robinson & Randle

In relief: Portis & Gibson

In the East Philly, Milwaukee, Detroit and Indiana have a stronger frontcourt. With DJ & Allen, possibly so do the Nyets, though who is their depth? Orlando and Toronto are par. Possibly so is Chicago.

We should be at least middle of the pack in terms of our front line.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on July 28, 2019, 02:26:06 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 27, 2019, 08:43:00 PM
http://nypost.com/2019/07/27/bobby-portis-eyes-sixth-man-of-the-year-as-knicks-bench-leader/ (http://nypost.com/2019/07/27/bobby-portis-eyes-sixth-man-of-the-year-as-knicks-bench-leader/)

First up: Robinson & Randle

In relief: Portis & Gibson


Starters:
Robinson
Randle

Question marks everywhere else

I would like to see:

Robinson
Randle
Morris
RJ
DSJ

and occasionally that same group with Trier and Payton in the backcourt instead or RJ and DSJ.


Knox, Portis, Gibson, Frank (to showcase)  off the bench.  That's 11 guys.


Ellington the invisible man.

Bullock in bandages.

Bradzeikis in Westchester.

Does Dotson have a role?  Trade Knox and play Dotson? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 28, 2019, 02:31:08 AM
 That could very well be how it shakes out.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 28, 2019, 05:10:18 AM
I like the idea of pairing DSJ & Payton in a two more than nominal pg lineup.

I like the idea of playing RJ and Trier together because 6’7” & 6’5”, Trier ability off the cut and his nearly .400 3pt clip on a miserable team in real minutes, and the fact that Trier & Barrett will get into the bodies of every player the opponent puts on the floor. It what they do.

Payton & RJ (my current lean to start pairing) and DSJ & Trier as the uptempo relief bench that’s popular these days. Put your most accomplished table setter with your high ability high expectation rookie. DSJ & Trier can fend for themselves and together are a handful.

I’ll talk about Frank after the Worlds get going.

It may all come down to defense.
Title: Maurice Lucas
Post by: chipstern on July 28, 2019, 07:46:39 PM
Never understood the logic behind trading Lucas for Truck, save perhaps the Knicks thought they were getting a mega-scorer to pin next to Mister Bill. 

Truck averaged like 19 a game the previous season for Phoenix.  Enjoyed a precipitous decline for the Knicks, even though our record improved.  Truck was an undersized PF at 6'7" whereas Maurice was a formidable physical presence at 6'9". 

We should be so lucky if Julius Randle invokes that lineage. 

PS: Remains to be seen how Brazdeikis evolves playing against our vets in practice, and against the reall big boys in the fall, but his overall game suggests everything the Knicks were hoping Herzonja would give us, save that Iggy drains his threes and finishes his drives to the hoop. 

PPS: Trade Kevin Knox?  There's a bright idea. 
Title: Lineups?
Post by: chipstern on July 28, 2019, 07:55:36 PM
Robinson-Randle-Morris-Barrett-Payton

Portis-Gibson-Knox-Trier-Smith

Be interesting to see if Brazdeikis can make a case for rotation time.  I surely liked what I saw of him.  Nice skill set and aggression. 

Portis/Gibson could certainly split time at the 5.  Knox and Iggy looked plausible up front in summer league. 

I have not a clue how the backcourt situation sorts itself out. 

Dotson and Ntilikina both coming off of rehab.  Bullock could be out until February.

Ellington surely merits some face time. 

Barrett and Trier represents an interesting training camp competition.  So does Smith and Payton.  Likewise Morris and Knox. 

Looking at film of Payton and Randle from last year, they had a very nice chemistry for the Pelicans. 

How Fizdale sorts this all out is anyone's guess. 

Sixteen wins...Twenty-Seven Wins...HOW MANY WINS? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 29, 2019, 05:12:11 AM
Mo Luke The Enforcer:
https://twitter.com/ballislife/status/1097545027104862208?lang=en

Some crazy stuff.
Check out the vid before reading my synopsis below.
Great NBA theater.

So:
Darryl Dawkins obliterates a guy ripping a rebound away. 
The guy (Bobby Gross) gets up mad, but Dawkins is up quickly, meanly, and is huge.  So the Blazer guy points his finger and says something.
Dawkins gets angry, runs by and throws a cheap shot that hits Doug Collins, his teammate in the head.  Collins had been semi-restraining Gross.  Collins needs 4 stitches.

Dawkins backs up towards halfcourt, without noticing anyone is there.  Mo Lucas gives Dawkins a forearm shiver to the back of the neck that sends Choc Thunder flying.

So Lucas and Dawkins square off in boxing stances center court.
You gotta be pretty tough to go toe-to-toe with Darryl Dawkins.
Everybody gets on the floor to break things up.
Blazer coach Jack Ramsey tries to keep Dawkins back.
Lotta guys from both teams restraining Lucas.
Lots of ushers on the court.  Also fans wandering around and getting involved.  It's Philly in '77.

Did I mention this is G2 of the NBA Finals?
PHI wins to go up 2-0, but then loses 4 straight.
As this tweet says, many thought Mo Luke standing up for his mate turned the tide and gave POR the pride.
'6ers had a better team on paper.
Bob Gross was POR's 3rd best player in the Finals after Walton and Lucas.

Couple interesting sidenotes:
-The call on the floor was a jump ball after Dawkins body slammed Gross. It was a good hustle play by Dawk, to get back, contest the shot and fight for the board. 
- Herm Gilliam, who missed the shot, comes down limping, and the melee gets underway around him while he's hobbling on one leg.
- As Dawkins and Lucas square off, one official almost gets between them then (probably wisely) backs away
- Lucas is the only one to get off a punch or two
- The fans on the court is wild as well.

The whole thing has shades of later Knickdom.  Jack Ramsey like JVG crazily trying to stop a very large enraged human from fighting, though Ramsey remains upright.  Dawkins suckerpunch and run away is not unlike Melo v. NYK.  And hitting your own guy is like Camby winding up and clocking his coach (JVG again). 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 29, 2019, 11:44:24 AM
Randle's a better player than Lucas was.
Title: 2014 NBA Draft
Post by: chipstern on July 29, 2019, 12:03:54 PM
#7: Julius Randle

#10: Elfrid Payton

#16: Jusuf Nurkic

#25: Clint Capela

#34: Cleanthony Early

#38: Spencer Dinwiddie

#41: Nikola Jokic

#46: Jordan Clarkson

#51: Thanasis Antetokounmpo
Title: Re: 2014 NBA Draft
Post by: Kam on July 29, 2019, 12:09:27 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 29, 2019, 12:03:54 PM
#7: Julius Randle

#10: Elfrid Payton


#9: Noah Vonleh.



We kept ZERO of the free agents we were "developing" last season.  Glad Frank had to sit through Mudiay and Burke.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 29, 2019, 12:10:16 PM
Yeah, me too.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on July 29, 2019, 12:20:49 PM
Everybody's development (yes the whole team suffered)  was arrested by trying to "Get Mudiay Right"

Yay, we earned him a minimum contract with Utah,  who are known to develop players.


So that Mudiay could drive move and finish better (again, YAY!) we sat a pass first Ntilikina who probably could've averaged 8 or 9 assists per game. 

Now Frank  (who we did not even allow to go to Westchester for in game reps) is a shell of what he was his rookie campaign.


Again, YAY!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 29, 2019, 12:29:18 PM
Quote from: Kam on July 29, 2019, 12:20:49 PM
Everybody's development (yes the whole team suffered)  was arrested by trying to "Get Mudiay Right"



Wrong

He was simply one of 15 players out there trying to win games.

Fizdale assumed Mudiay might be a program guy - not a one year plugin.

Fiz likely with the - "Now what do I do?" reaction when DSJ was added, true.  Coaching can be tough at times in this respect
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on July 29, 2019, 12:54:57 PM
We would've won more with Frank
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 29, 2019, 01:03:14 PM
We will win more with Frank.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 29, 2019, 01:39:32 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 29, 2019, 11:44:24 AM
Randle's a better player than Lucas was.

Not true.

Lucas played in 4 straight All-Star games (one of them was ABA).
And made another A-S game a few years later.
Let's see Randle become a 5-time all-star.

Their career numbers are very similar (https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=1&player_id1_hint=Julius+Randle&player_id1_select=Julius+Randle&player_id1=randlju01&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Maurice+Lucas&player_id2_select=Maurice+Lucas&player_id2=lucasma01&idx=players).
But for Luke that includes his last 3 post-PHX years, from age 33-35 when he was in decline.

Mo Luke played D.
1st team All-D one year and the next year All-D 2nd.
Randle known as chumpy on D.
That's the key difference between them.
Plus Lucas was a leader and motivator.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on July 29, 2019, 01:58:33 PM
I'm glad you handled that one, Bo.  At this point, Randle, who I actually like, has been nothing more than a decent player on a series of lousy teams.  I'm not sure what possible basis one would have to conclude that "Randle's better than Lucas was."

On the other hand, Kid knows things. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 29, 2019, 02:00:42 PM
Its early sledding on Randle. He’s going to get some team USA defensive work in before camp. He’ll have Taj and Morris to share wisdom and set standards for his play with us. Even at 24, I don’t see him as a finished product, but as a guy still adding layers to his game. With Randle and the rest of the free agents I’m reserving judgement till I see how they look with us and how they look together.
Title: Mo
Post by: chipstern on July 29, 2019, 03:23:15 PM
Saying Randle IS a better player than Lucas is reasonably flippant. 

Maurice Lucas was a force of nature.  He did things that didn't show up in a box score. 

Like what Oakley and Mason did on D...just conveying a certain sense of attitude as to no wire hangers, no layups, no uncontested hoops. 

Lucas was a LEADER and an ENFORCER, and everyone knew Maurice had their back. 

Bo, I think it is way early to be dismissing Randle on any level, and the good stats lousy team diss is a bit much.  He has gotten better every year.  Check out some of his highlight reels on YouTube.  He is an excellent passer, very graceful going to the basket strong or with finesse, and his outside shot is for real.  He is a rock solid 6'9" 250, and will get you 20-8-3 night in and night out.  In The NBA.  That ain't chopped liver. 

As for his defense, well, that remains to be seen.  And how the Knicks "Culture" evolves along those lines.  With Taj at PF and Morris at SF, we are certainly raising the bar in that regard. 

As for Burke and Mudiay superseding Frank, while some arguments could be made along those lines, and surely more consistent floor time would've been to Frank's benefit, his offense was up and down, and it seems like every time he got into some sort of rhythm, he could not sustain it, OR GOT HURT. 

As for Fizz, Berman's article on the Knicks KULTURE, seemed like something of a message pitch...you could hear Mills and Perry talking, but not see their lips moving. 

Of course, it was not Fizz's decision to cut Kornet, Mudiay, Vonleh, Herzonja loose.  I don't necessarily see that as an indictment of either the coaching or the culture, more like, BACK TO THE FUCKING DRAWING BOARD. 

PF/C: Portis > Kornet
PG: Payton > Mudiay
PF: Randle > Vonleh
SF/PF: Brazdeikis > Herzonja

Seems to me, much as I liked our alumni Luke, Emmanuel. Noah and Mario, that Bobby, Elfrid, Julius and Ignas are significant upgrades.  Still, I think our ex-Knicks should do well on their new teams, and that Fizz did improve their games. 

We shall see. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 29, 2019, 04:19:07 PM
At 24, Mo Luke was the 2nd best player on a championship team ...


Quote
He is an excellent passer, very graceful going to the basket strong or with finesse, and his outside shot is for real.

I think that's overselling.
Randle's a decent passer.
Bulls through people and sometimes charges.
Sometimes flips up some real ugly shots at the rim, because he has no plan B.  And he has exactly one season of almost league average 3-point shooting (on not many attempts for these days).

He's a bull, has reasonable offensive skills and can board.
Can improve on some of his drives.  Needs to be able to pass or take good shots and not just steamroll every time.
Needs to be more aware defensively.
His nascent 3-point shooting is intriguing.
If he can improve on defense and hit some 3's, he's real intriguing.

He's young and can remedy those things, to an extent, if willing.  One thing that turns me off: the games/times where he wildly flips the ball at the rim.  Gives me Antoine Walker flashbacks.

He is good on the break, if the Knix push the pace.
Maybe he'll pair well with Mitch, but those two might be awfully foul-prone.  of course we have lots of PF's to slot in if that happens.

Quote from: chipstern on July 29, 2019, 03:23:15 PM
PF/C: Portis > Kornet
PG: Payton > Mudiay
PF: Randle > Vonleh
SF/PF: Brazdeikis > Herzonja

Seems to me, much as I liked our alumni Luke, Emmanuel. Noah and Mario, that Bobby, Elfrid, Julius and Ignas are significant upgrades. 

Sure but that's comparing $40M in annual salary v. $8M (or whatever the actual $$'s are).  I'm glad we dumped Mud, but not an Elfin fan either.
I would have liked Vonleh and Kornet back.  Continuity and investing in players is a good thing.

I still think it was goofy of the Knix to sign 4 PF's this Summer.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 29, 2019, 04:26:12 PM
I like the idea of starting Randle and Morris at the 3&4 with Taj on the bench next to Knox staying in his ear. With Mitch, Randle, and Morris starting you need at least decent shooting from the guards. Portis, Taj, and Knox brings good spacing from the second unit while leaning on Taj to earn his money organizing decent team defense from the other two. As starters that would be a disaster. Against second units, it just might work.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 29, 2019, 05:43:23 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on July 29, 2019, 01:58:33 PM
I'm glad you handled that one, Bo.  At this point, Randle, who I actually like, has been nothing more than a decent player on a series of lousy teams. 

Heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 29, 2019, 05:51:31 PM
Can always count on YG to play both sides
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on July 29, 2019, 05:54:27 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 29, 2019, 05:43:23 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on July 29, 2019, 01:58:33 PM
I'm glad you handled that one, Bo.  At this point, Randle, who I actually like, has been nothing more than a decent player on a series of lousy teams. 

Heh
Heh.  My mistake he's been a superstar on a bunch of great teams.  How could I have made such a blunder?

What has he done in the NBA that leads you to your conclusion, that he's a better player than Maurice Lucas?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 29, 2019, 06:27:14 PM
I don’t know.  All American at 18. Triple doubles.  ..... 45 point game at age 23...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on July 29, 2019, 06:35:23 PM
Wow what a stuffed resume!  You think that brilliant performance would help a team to the playoffs. Did he play for an NBA team within 10 games of .500?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 29, 2019, 07:10:52 PM
You can get the entire resume at Ineedhelpwithnbaknowledge.com. Molucasisagod.com was laughed off the internet
Title: Yank
Post by: chipstern on July 29, 2019, 07:20:02 PM
Randle is a bad young man.  So is Portis.

Randle With 45 Points/11 Boards/6 Assists Vs TrailBlazers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMlzNJaMEsc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMlzNJaMEsc)

Portis With 28 Points/13 Boards/4 Assists Vs Jazz
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YQCYBiNGRI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YQCYBiNGRI)

The 6'9" 250 pound Randle scoring in every way possible, setting up team mates.

The 6'11" 245 pound Portis positively raining threes, getting boards.

Against good teams.  Is it their fault that the Lakers/Pelicans and Wizards were in remission.  That is a silly argument. 

Don't get get caught up in comparisons to Maurice Lucas. 

Maurice Lucas was a significant spiritual/psychic/tough guy presence on a championship team, and had Bill Walton's back, much as Bill Lambeer and Rick Mahorn had Isiah's, Robert Parish had Bird's and Oakley and Mase had Ewing's. 

Obviously, Randle and Portis have A LOT TO PROVE.  But come on, man. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on July 29, 2019, 08:23:21 PM
Yep. Kid knows the NBA better than I do. He was a point guard in high school.
Title: El guardia Chico Cartero
Post by: carlos123 on July 29, 2019, 09:13:05 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on July 29, 2019, 08:23:21 PM
Yep. Kid knows the NBA better than I do. He was a point guard in high school.

And here is proof of it:

(https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/the-mexican-point-guard-jorge-ivan-gutierrez-in-the-match-between-picture-id545175888)
Title: Theater Of The Absurd
Post by: chipstern on July 29, 2019, 09:17:58 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on July 29, 2019, 08:23:21 PM
Yep. Kid knows the NBA better than I do. He was a point guard in high school.

Now Now

No one is suggesting that. 

No one is taking the Prophet's side. 

Just suggesting that you don't toss out the babies with the bathwater. The sins of the Prophet are not to be visited upon our fledgling big men. 

Plenty of great players have languished on crappy teams that didn't come close to sniffing a pennant, the finals...that's a specious argument. 

Ted Williams and Stan Musial come readily to mind, all-time greats who both made it to the World Series in 1947, and thereafter, thanks to the hidebound racist policies of the Red Sox and the Cardinals, found their teams consumed in mediocrity
with their collection of leaden white boys, while teams such as the Dodgers, Indians, Giants and Braves went to the bank (and the post-season) thanks to their commitment to signing up the cream of African-American talent.  Branch Rickey and Bill Veeck were surely principled, humanists, but they were not angling for heaven....they were also canny businessmen, and reasoned that he who gets the best ball players, wins the most games, and, incidentally, MAKE THE MOST MONEY. 

Of course, the Yankees of the 1950s were not exactly passing the cup for the NAACP, and when Elston Howard became their first black ballplayer, Casey Stengel famously said, "Well, when we finally get one, and he can't run..."  COUGH. 

I'm not claiming to be prescient by any means, but expectations notwithstanding, I was surely not expecting Durant nor Irving Walker nor Leonard to sign on the bottom line.  I was hoping the Knicks would make a run at either Randle OR Portis, and was gassed when we signed both on a 2+1 and a 1+1 respectively. 

They have been progressing year by year, and I mean, tell me, how easy is it raise your game on crappy teams? 

I too, was startles to hear Kiid assert, with his customary modesty, that in his estimation, Randle is a better player than Maurice Lucas.  Kiid, as you have no doubt noticed over time, likes to rattle Forumite's cages at regular intervals. 

Lucas is a proven pro with a championship resume.  Randle (and Portis) are works in progress, but not JERKS IN REGRESS as you seem to be, if not suggesting, responding in kind to Kiid's theater of the absurd. 

'Nuff said. 
Title: Re: El guardia Chico Cartero
Post by: chipstern on July 29, 2019, 09:18:41 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on July 29, 2019, 09:13:05 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on July 29, 2019, 08:23:21 PM
Yep. Kid knows the NBA better than I do. He was a point guard in high school.

And here is proof of it:

(https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/the-mexican-point-guard-jorge-ivan-gutierrez-in-the-match-between-picture-id545175888)

El Chico Freako
Title: Bo D
Post by: chipstern on July 29, 2019, 09:25:50 PM
PS: Morris was brought in to play small forward and to kick Kevin Knox's ass, both worthy callings.  Seemed like a sleazy move to y'all, to purloin MM from the Spurs?  Hmmmm...all is fair in love and war.  How many times over the decades have free agents showed us their tits, and signed with someone else?  I mean, how exactly did we get the idea we had a shot at Durant and Irving?
This ain't beanbags, homes.   

Title: Re: El guardia Chico Cartero
Post by: facilitatorn on July 29, 2019, 10:02:37 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 29, 2019, 09:18:41 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on July 29, 2019, 09:13:05 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on July 29, 2019, 08:23:21 PM
Yep. Kid knows the NBA better than I do. He was a point guard in high school.

And here is proof of it:

(https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/the-mexican-point-guard-jorge-ivan-gutierrez-in-the-match-between-picture-id545175888)

El Chico Freako

Let me guess.

Reluctant to pass, got exposed on d, overrated his own offensive prowess especially when it came to his jumper.

That would explain all of his current pg preferences.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 29, 2019, 10:21:02 PM
Analysis of my game as a 21-35 year old

No. Not a point guard. But a decent handle. Perimeter and post skills. Guarded all but the real quick guards including a 7 footer who played D1. Defensive and passing instincts of Bird.  No. Didn’t play or coach in college.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on July 30, 2019, 09:35:41 AM
Excellent! I think we should all engage in Mao-era style self-analysis of our games. Choose any time period and player comparisons you like.

Analysis of my game as a 14-18 year old. (the highpoint)

Pass-first point guard limited by mediocre handle and small hands. Decent mid-range shot. Rugged rebounder & five position defender eager to bang Debusschere/Mase style with larger players.
Title: Self-analysis of others
Post by: carlos123 on July 30, 2019, 10:33:46 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on July 30, 2019, 09:35:41 AM
Excellent! I think we should all engage in Mao-era style self-analysis of our games. Choose any time period and player comparisons you like.

Analysis of my game as a 14-18 year old. (the highpoint)

Pass-first point guard limited by mediocre handle and small hands. Decent mid-range shot. Rugged rebounder & five position defender eager to bang Debusschere/Mase style with larger players.

Clearly, Chico’s skills far superior. What a surprise!

You sill my favorite doggie 🐶
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 30, 2019, 11:55:36 AM
Going back to the 1977 Finals.
Some said that Lucas delivering an elbow and standing up to Dawkins near the end of G2 turned the series.  '6ers lost the next 4 games.
But as Paul Harvey used to say, here's The Rest of the Story:

Quote
The way the legend goes, the Trail Blazers snatched momentum away from the Philadelphia 76ers in the 1977 NBA Finals with a shove to the back, a few fists and a wild melee at The Spectrum at the end of Game 2.

But in reality, the Blazers truly turned the tide in that memorable series with a far friendlier incident:  a handshake.

During pregame introductions of Game 3, after Blazers fans unrelentingly booed Dawkins, Lucas was introduced before a sellout Memorial Coliseum crowd. But instead of jogging to stand next to his teammates, as was common practice, Lucas trotted toward the 76ers' bench to stand face-to-face with a stunned Dawkins. Some in the crowd gasped and Philadelphia players backed away from the two hulking men, no doubt because they expected another brouhaha. But instead of raising his fists, Lucas reached for Dawkins' right hand, squeezed hard and said: "No hard feelings." Dawkins was frozen.

"After that, he was done," Lucas told The Oregonian/OregonLive in 2010. "One of the smartest things I ever did."

https://www.oregonlive.com/blazers/2017/01/maurice_lucas_blazers_championship_1977.html

Dawkins was a 20-year old man-child.  Luke got into his head.  It was like Foreman and Ali, with Dawkins in the insecure brute role, and Lucas the (24 year old) vet psyching him out.

Dawkins and McGinnis were an all-time physical intimidating pair, but Dawk didn't always have his head together, and McG could also get down, often related to his FT woes, and was in a horrendous slump for the entire playoffs that year. 

But that story shows Lucas' maturity and class.
Btw, I watched some of the '77 Finals G2 on youtube, and while Mo Luke wasn't sharp on offense early, he still finished with 10 1Q points to keep Portland close in a game in which they had lots of sloppy turnovers (similar to their G1 loss).  His defense was solid.  And Luke was a steadying presence.  Twice in the 1st half, commentator Brent Mussberger praised 24 year old Lucas as a clutch player, a key guy in the last 2 minutes, etc.

Lastly, Bill Walton named his son Luke in tribute to his teammate Mo Lucas.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on July 30, 2019, 12:02:22 PM
Except for the last game (when he still managed to miss a ridiculously easy shot that would have tied it near the end), McGinnis was pretty awful that series.  His weakness was that as big and strong as he was, he was far from a physical player.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 30, 2019, 12:43:35 PM
McGinnis was always a sloppy player and didn't provide as much as he seemed capable of.  He had an unorthodox style.  But when he got it going on, he was hard to stop.  But he was often clumsy.

In the 77 Finals McGinnis shot 39% FG, helped considerably by his 12-23 performance in G6.  The Finals actually upped his '77 playoff FG%, which finished at 37% overall in 19 games.  In G2, Mussberger says that McGinnis is in a terrible slump these playoffs.  And it continued for the first 5 games of the Finals.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 30, 2019, 12:48:30 PM
The Next Siakams: Five NBA Breakthrough Candidates (https://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/7/26/8930991/nba-next-pascal-siakam)

They chose:
Zach Collins
OG Anunoby
Mitch Robinson
Harry Giles (a player I've been interested in, who tends to get lost in the mix in SACto)
DeAnthony Melton

I'd have to think who my candidates would be.
I'd have John Collins on there, unless he already busted out last year.
Maybe Bam
OG certainly.
Wendell Carter, Bagley -- or don't such high picks count?
Markaanen (or did he pop already?)
Bogdanovich as his new situation in UTA is perfect for him
Shai

I'd have to look at rosters for others.
Maybe Poetl.  Sabonis.  Jonathan Isaac?  Lonzo?   Huerter?

Okogie and Khem Birch are in my Keep An Eye On pile, but probably not bust-out-this-year candidates.  More like improve and intrigue this year guys.  Similarly Robert Williams III.  Sterling Brown.

LaVert was one of my picks last year.  Love that guy in the open court.
Also, Brogdon.  Smart heady player.
And Oubre, who started to pop for PHX post-trade.
Title: Re: Self-analysis of others
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 30, 2019, 12:55:25 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on July 30, 2019, 10:33:46 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on July 30, 2019, 09:35:41 AM
Excellent! I think we should all engage in Mao-era style self-analysis of our games. Choose any time period and player comparisons you like.

Analysis of my game as a 14-18 year old. (the highpoint)

Pass-first point guard limited by mediocre handle and small hands. Decent mid-range shot. Rugged rebounder & five position defender eager to bang Debusschere/Mase style with larger players.

Clearly, Chico’s skills far superior. What a surprise!



Well... I was older.  Might add I was a better shot blocker than Bird
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on July 30, 2019, 12:59:38 PM
Just checking BBR. Randle appears to be able to shoot and score for a biggie, so does Portis. Not seen in these parts since the KP injury. Covering up for draft misses? So many bricks from athletic bigs who cant shoot. Franky, KK, and now ugh Barrett. Knix should have drafted down for some shooters?
Title: Re: Self-analysis of others
Post by: carlos123 on July 30, 2019, 01:32:25 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 30, 2019, 12:55:25 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on July 30, 2019, 10:33:46 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on July 30, 2019, 09:35:41 AM
Excellent! I think we should all engage in Mao-era style self-analysis of our games. Choose any time period and player comparisons you like.

Analysis of my game as a 14-18 year old. (the highpoint)

Pass-first point guard limited by mediocre handle and small hands. Decent mid-range shot. Rugged rebounder & five position defender eager to bang Debusschere/Mase style with larger players.

Clearly, Chico’s skills far superior. What a surprise!



Well... I was older.  Might add I was a better shot blocker than Bird

Seriously?

Wow!!!

Missing link of the 1990s Knicks. Too bad they didn’t find you.

PS. Les still my doggie 🐶
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 30, 2019, 01:35:52 PM
Quote from: luee on July 30, 2019, 12:59:38 PM
Just checking BBR. Randle appears to be able to shoot and score for a biggie, so does Portis. Not seen in these parts since the KP injury. Covering up for draft misses? So many bricks from athletic bigs who cant shoot. Franky, KK, and now ugh Barrett. Knix should have drafted down for some shooters?

In addition to the two bigs you mentioned, Marcus Morris and Wayne Ellington can shoot as it seems can young Ignas. Trier and Dot are the most accomplished shooters among the holdovers.

It would be great if the three younguns, RJ, KK, FN developed consistent outside shooting along with DSJ and Payton. Bullock should shoot when he returns.

As it is we have 8 guys who do shoot well, 5 guys who should but haven’t yet, Taj, and Mitch.

This is probably our best shooting team since the Kidd-Sheed squad that lost to the Pacers & Mt. Hibbert.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 30, 2019, 01:36:46 PM
Better shot blocker than Charlie Parker of Lady Bird Johnson?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on July 30, 2019, 03:10:59 PM
Chris Copeland and Steve Novak please pick up the orange and blue courtesy phone
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 30, 2019, 06:22:21 PM
The Philadelphia 76ers announced on Tuesday that the team has agreed to a deal with point guard Trey Burke.

They also added Kyle O'Quinn on a minimum deal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 30, 2019, 06:24:13 PM
Portland Trail Blazers guard CJ McCollum has agreed to a three-year, $100 million contract extension, extending his current deal to five years and $157 million.

Yikes!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 31, 2019, 09:24:21 AM
That’s the guy you finally draw the line with?

Real good player

The real good maybe should max at about 25ish.  But who decides?  Probably best to let it be the market
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 31, 2019, 11:04:38 AM
You kidding me?  I've been balking at Big Contracts for years.

I wouldn't have given Melo a 5th year.  He was too old for that, and the market rate was a 3 year max.  Then Phil gave him the gold-plated max ...

I said the same about Chris Paul's ridiculous monstrous deal into his old age.

I complained about Tim's deal ... probably too much.

But 5 years, with an average of $32M for a nice offensive player, who is at best a 3rd man on a contender.  Yikes.  An injury would make that a complete albatross.  But is he worth anywhere near that?  And having that much money tied up in him crimps the rest of the roster and chances to upgrade.  I'd much rather have Beal, a feistier player with some 2-way chops.

Where would you rate a Lillard-McCollum backcourt?

Two offenders, don't stop anyone, and smallish.
Sometime steams are just stuck with what they have.
Hope Nurkic comes back healthy by mid-season.
That Zach makes a leap.
I don't have much faith in their way forward.
A perennial 4th or 5th seed, second round fodder.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on July 31, 2019, 11:28:49 AM
What would you pay McCollum?   Someone said $25 mil.


So they paid him what?  6 or 7 million overpay.


What does 6 or 7 mil get you these days?


A guy who aint worth even a mid-level deal.


AAAND you've pissed off your man, which could torpedo team chemistry.


AAAAND other players take note.


Penny wise Bo.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on July 31, 2019, 11:52:13 AM
Beal over CJ? Somebody drinking way too much fortified wine...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 31, 2019, 12:17:54 PM

Beal's numbers are better than McCollum's across the board (https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=1&player_id1_hint=Bradley+Beal&player_id1_select=Bradley+Beal&player_id1=bealbr01&idx=players&player_id2_hint=CJ+McCollum&player_id2_select=CJ+McCollum&player_id2=mccolcj01&idx=players) -- more FT's, steals, assists, boards -- with only a slight 3-pt FG% advantage for McC (40% to 38.5%).
Beal also has better size is a better defender, and is 2 years younger. 
Last year with Wall out, Beal put up 25.5 / 5 / 5.5.
POR would be a bigger threat if McC was up to Beal's level.
Title: Numbers on bad teams mean Jack all
Post by: lesterluv on July 31, 2019, 03:45:26 PM
Who cares about numbers.  Who do they play for? What have they done? Watch basketball!


*** and how the f*** would Portland get Beal anyway?  lol,..I'd much rather have...might as well say I'd much rather have Gary Payton in his prime

**** Portland has a kick ass guard who helped get them to the CF last year. They paid him. What's the problem?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 31, 2019, 04:45:01 PM
I’d much rather have Beal

WTF is wrong with you?  That’s not how it works
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 31, 2019, 04:50:38 PM
I think degrading Portland’s new look is kind of silly. I like those additions

Cue Yankguy saying Whiteside sucks
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 31, 2019, 05:03:19 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on July 31, 2019, 03:45:26 PM
Who cares about numbers.  Who do they play for? What have they done?

Wiz lost in the 2nd round 3x with Beal.
About the same as POR.
Last year, WAS was bad after their starting PG went down and they traded away their 3rd best player.  POR would be just as bad, likely worse, if Lillard missed the season.  McCollum couldn't step in and be as good a lead player as Beal was last year.  Beal a 2x all-star.

Quote from: lesterdog on July 31, 2019, 11:52:13 AM
Beal over CJ? Somebody drinking way too much fortified wine...

This is just wrong.  And what I responded to. 
I've watched them both plenty.  McC a talented scorer with a herky-jerky rhythm. Beal a better all-around player -- rebounder, passer, driver, defender, with better size and two years younger. 

McCollum a nice player, but not one I would give 5/$153M to.  He's too limited for that.   Look for his contract to be a burden by Y3 or Y4.
They had him for 2 more years.  Didn't need to give him a huge extension now.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on July 31, 2019, 05:08:20 PM
Whole Lotta sweet premium wine being drunk in China this evening


*** https://youtu.be/lynKqRsZ7lU (https://youtu.be/lynKqRsZ7lU)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 31, 2019, 05:18:27 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 31, 2019, 04:50:38 PM
I think degrading Portland’s new look is kind of silly. I like those additions
Cue Yankguy saying Whiteside sucks

Who are their starting Forwards?
Zach & RodHood.
I like Zach, but he's still developing.
Hood is erratic and generally unreliable.

Their bench looks terrible.
Simons is a pup -- I haven't seen him play.
The concept of Bazemore is always better than the reality.
Zonja?  Tolliver?  39 year old Pau?  Yikes.

Nassir is a 19 year old rook.
Labissiere a good redraft flyer, but unclear what he can do.

They better find a vet PG in case Lillard misses any time or Simons is overwhelmed.  Lin, Frazier, whoever else is still floating around out there.

Nurkic won't be back til Feb or so.
And how happy will Whiteside be going to the bench.  He's a sulker.

Looks like this season could be a slog for POR.
I'll switch to Under the 49.5, now that I look at their roster.
Title: Les is less
Post by: bodiddley on July 31, 2019, 05:22:07 PM
Well Les, as usual, you're a waste of time.

Either make a case that McCollum is better than Beal, admit you were wrong, or continue to jerk yourself off in goofy posts.

I'll drop my wager on #3.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 31, 2019, 05:54:32 PM
Seems POR has the highest payroll this season -- $143M.
Next year, Lillard & McCollum will combine for $60M.
The season after, when McC's new extension kicks in, they will make $75M combined!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 31, 2019, 06:05:09 PM
McCollum

‘19-‘20
‘20-‘21

Then the extension
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 31, 2019, 06:10:12 PM
GM Insley says the McCollum deal sends a message to the league about coming to play in Portland. I like the develop and keep mantra. Works when you draft well. Sorry, Knicks

McCollum embodies NBA hard work. Had THREE starts combined his first 2 years while playing 12, then 15 minutes per

45/40/84 career sniper.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 31, 2019, 06:13:31 PM
BEAL is 45/38/80
Title: Re: Les is less
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 31, 2019, 06:18:32 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 31, 2019, 05:22:07 PM
Well Les, as usual, you're a waste of time.

Either make a case that McCollum is better than Beal, admit you were wrong, or continue to jerk yourself off in goofy

I'll drop my wager on #3.

I don’t see any reason to compare the 2
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 31, 2019, 06:20:07 PM
Do we care what we will pay Robinson when his deal is up?

No. He is OURS and we want to keep him
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 31, 2019, 06:36:38 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 31, 2019, 05:54:32 PM
Seems POR has the highest payroll this season -- $143M.
Next year, Lillard & McCollum will combine for $60M.
The season after, when McC's new extension kicks in, they will make $75M combined!

Sorry, that should read:
THE Next year, L & McC . . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 31, 2019, 06:41:36 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 31, 2019, 06:20:07 PM
Do we care what we will pay Robinson when his deal is up?

Of course, you do.
Managing salaries is a key part of GMing.
Talent evaluation and financial judgement go hand-in-hand.

MIA miscalculated with Whiteside, somewhat comparable to Mitch, and it hampered their team for years.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 31, 2019, 06:44:19 PM
That’s BS

If we were to allow Robinson to leave you would blow up the forum
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 31, 2019, 07:15:15 PM
This is extremely nonsensical.

If he morphs into Bill Russell, you max him.
But his salary will depend on his ability/talent level/development.

He's just had a strong rookie year, and is under contact for two more.
Probably the smart thing to do is after this year to extend him at a reasonable rate, while freeing him from the extreme cut-rate team option year of $1.8M.  I assume he'd be very unhappy playing in his 3rd year for $1.8M if he had a good 2nd year as the starting C.
But keeping him at any cost is foolish -- even more so without knowing where his talent/skill level is.

And weren't you the one not wanting to pay KZ, a proven commodity (albeit sustaining an injury) the max?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 31, 2019, 07:46:50 PM
Heh. We shall see

Of course I don’t have him starting

Not the best example
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 31, 2019, 07:47:18 PM
Allan Houston maybe?
Title: Show 'em what they know not through flows of hot molasses
Post by: lesterluv on July 31, 2019, 09:07:37 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 31, 2019, 05:22:07 PM
Well Les, as usual, you're a waste of time.

Either make a case that McCollum is better than Beal, admit you were wrong, or continue to jerk yourself off in goofy posts.

I'll drop my wager on #3.

Well Bo, as usual, you're boring as fuck, wrong, and quail-egg shell sensitive. Little Bo PeeperZ, keeper of civility, doing nothing but attacking the poster cause he ran out of numbers.

Which post was goofy? The one in which I gifted the forum an absolute classic KMD track? More than you'll give in your lifetime for sure.

I'll tell you what was goofy — almost as goofy as your assertion that Lowry had a mediocre playoffs on the way to collecting a ring — your assertion that the Trailblazers somehow f'd up in paying 1/2 of what will be the best starting backcourt in the NBA (with Klay out) when the season begins.

Yeah, I like CJ way better than Beal. And I ain't gonna spend a minute more of my life arguing it cause it doesn't matter -- Portland's choice wasn't teleporting Beal into CJ's roster spot.

The West is wide fucking open for the next few years.
Lebron is 30+++ and AD is only guaranteed a year.
KL played 69 games over the last two years and PG is coming off surgery.
You know what's up with GS and Houston.

You keep that backcourt tight, and you keep building in front of it.

You think the Trailblazers or their fans will be crying about overpaying CJ in the last year of his contract, a career Blazer who loves his team, teammates and city? If they are overpaying him at that point? Hell no. They'll be celebrating his 11th year with the team, probably a few additional team achievements and getting ready to hang his jersey from the roof of the arena.

Stop thinking. Keep drinking. Stay up extra late and bore some folks some more with a thousand words of ham.

**** OK, Bo, here ya go. Here's my case. Actually watch some f'n basketball ya peckerwood clown: https://youtu.be/Lc0SowNUS3w (https://youtu.be/Lc0SowNUS3w)
Title: Re: Les is NOT less
Post by: carlos123 on July 31, 2019, 09:23:58 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on July 31, 2019, 09:07:37 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 31, 2019, 05:22:07 PM
Well Les, as usual, you're a waste of time.

Either make a case that McCollum is better than Beal, admit you were wrong, or continue to jerk yourself off in goofy posts.

I'll drop my wager on #3.

Well Bo, as usual, you're boring as fuck, wrong, and quail-egg shell sensitive. Little Bo Peeper, keeper of civility, doing nothing but attacking the poster cause he ran out of numbers.


Les, you're missing a Z, or more...

Bo Zeeper

Feel free to change the name, but it needs at least one Z, as in KZ, Zingerino, Zallas, etz.

PS. I see you followed my advice and came up with a GREAT NAME: PEEPZ is f’in dope.

Les, you my doggie 🐶
Title: Re: Show 'em what they know not through flows of hot molasses
Post by: bodiddley on August 01, 2019, 03:44:29 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on July 31, 2019, 09:07:37 PM
Yeah, I like CJ way better than Beal. And I ain't gonna spend a minute more of my life arguing it cause it doesn't matter

Quite the case.
Along with a brief playoff highlight vid of a career game from McC.
Of course, what's in the vid is not what he's known for.  He rarely blocks anybody or makes a key defensive play, while Lillard usually takes all the late game clutch shots.  Definitely something to build on for McC.
In the next series v. GS, McC shot 39% and POR was swept.
Which has been POR's standard fate in the Lillard-McC era.

Lillard & McC have been the West Coast edition of Lowry & DeRozan.  A  competitive regular season duo who fade in the playoffs.  Last year was an exception (though they did flame out in a sweep).  Size, iffy defense and streaky shooting undermine them.  I think POR got a bit lucky last year to get a very good but inexperienced DEN team.  With Hood and Zach giving unexpectedly good support.

Going forward, losing Mo Hark and Aminu will hurt their defense and chemistry.  Whiteside not exactly known as a great teammate.
Will need Hood and Zach to be consistent.
Their bench looks awfully thin (Bazemore and a few young guys).
The Nurkic injury set them back.
47 W's is my call.

Whiteside and Bazemore are both big endings contracts, but the days of flipping those for value seems gone.   And POR can't really afford to add more long-term money.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 01, 2019, 03:57:46 AM
If the Blazers get though this year in one piece, they come back next year with their star duo and significant space. If Nurkic looks sound, that’s a pretty desirable destination. Besides, in the wide open west this year, they probably still have enough to contend and fluke their way through like us in the strike year.

Also, if you have guys you think are going to be good that long, you want to get them wrapped up for a year or two into the next CBA.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 01, 2019, 12:25:44 PM
If Blazers win the west they will beat the east representative

No feaux title whatsoever
Title: Le Français de Chico
Post by: carlos123 on August 01, 2019, 10:30:15 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on August 01, 2019, 12:25:44 PM

No feaux title whatsoever

Feaux ... Qu'est-ce que c'est?

(https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/the-mexican-point-guard-jorge-ivan-gutierrez-moves-the-ball-to-the-picture-id545175840)
M. Chico, le meneur de jeu.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 02, 2019, 10:51:57 AM
If the Knix win the East they will beat the West representative.

I guarantee it.
Title: BoZ's Wearhouse
Post by: carlos123 on August 02, 2019, 08:52:54 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 02, 2019, 10:51:57 AM
If the Knix win the East they will beat the West representative.

I guarantee it.

What kind of guarantee ...

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/SilverLiquidCuscus-size_restricted.gif)
This?

(https://media.giphy.com/media/l2JdUhw8mMsaQxaAE/giphy.gif)
... Or this?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 03, 2019, 04:42:42 AM
Clips really need to add a backup PG.
Right now they have Pa Bev and  ... ?
Folks have Lou Williams as their backup PG, with Paul George expected to do a lot of Point Forward stuff, even with Pa Bev out there.

They seem $2.2M below the tax line.
Possibly still waiting on something with Iggy.
But they should pick up a vet min PG.

Last year was Beverley's first healthy season ever.  He tends to miss a lot of games.  And he's 31 now.  Give them a quality backup PG and spot starter, and I can get on board. 

Their C platoon is competent.  I like Zubac, but he's foul prone.  Motley is interesting but raw.  Kabengele is a late 1st round rook.
So they have coverage.

Shamet, JaMike, Mo Hark, Lou W make for a fine bench.
I really don't know Jerome Robinson at all. #13 pick a year ago, played sparingly on a deep team his rook season.  McGruder might beat him out anyway.  They have a lot of SG's.

I'd like to see some Pa Bev - Lou W/Shamet - PG13 - Kawhi - Montrezl lineups.  That's a lot of energy and hustle and menace.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 03, 2019, 07:40:26 AM
Is there anything more Knix or more Dolan than this story (https://www.sny.tv/knicks/news/how-a-consulting-firms-influence-led-to-confusion-and-paranoia-on-the-carmelo-anthony-led-knicks/309641668)?

Quote
when (former Knix shooting coach Dave) Hopla talked to SNY about his time with the Knicks and that frustrating 2013-14 season, he pointed to another factor in the Knicks' shortcomings: He said McKinsey & Company, a worldwide management consulting firm hired by Madison Square Garden to work with the Knicks and Rangers, had a negative impact on the coaching staff and was the source of confusion and paranoia among some players. The firm's influence led to decisions like not having coaches watch film with players and filling out seemingly endless amounts of paperwork, according to Hopla.

"We got so fed up with them," Hopla said of McKinsey & Company, which declined comment for this story when asked about their work with the Knicks in 2013-14.

Knicks owner James Dolan said in a Q&A in the New York Post in 2013 that he hired the firm to "reprocess" the Knicks and Rangers. The firm was hired before Dolan decided to fire GM Glen Grunwald, which suggests they may have had at least some influence on the decision. Grunwald was let go days before training camp opened in 2013-14. Current team president Steve Mills replaced him general manager.

The timing of the move stunned Hopla and other coaches: "(The season) just started out in a tailspin."

McKinsey & Company's influence continued throughout the season. Hopla said the consulting agency advised coaches to stop watching film with players at one point during the year.

"The players were like, 'Why aren't we watching film?' (We said), 'the McKinsey group told us,' " Hopla recalled. 

Hopla said the consultants also told members of the coaching staff to fill out paperwork documenting how players performed in all workouts, a process Hopla felt was time-consuming (a second source confirms that coaches were asked to fill out the paperwork).

"I told them if we took all that time writing reports and we actually worked the players out, we would have made the playoffs," Hopla said. 

Members of the consulting firm attended practices and games at home and on the road, which, according to Hopla, led to concerns from the players.

"The players started asking who they were," Hopla said. "…. They were worried about maybe they were writing reports about them. They were paranoid."

Hopla questioned why a firm without significant experience in pro basketball was allowed to influence how Knicks coaches approached aspects of their jobs.

So a business firm with no hoops experience comes in, tells hoops lifers how to do their jobs, and everyone gets paranoid and feels someone is watching them all the time.

That's Dolan in a nutshell.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 03, 2019, 07:22:56 PM
“I told them if we took all that time and used it to coach them we would have made the playoffs”

What a crock of crap that is.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 04, 2019, 03:19:28 AM
Well, I assume he's exaggerating.  But he seems to have a valid point.

Problem bringing in outside consultants is that:
1) the consultants have to make a point of being visible and busy, which often unnerves/concerns workers and affects morale
2) the consultants  have to propose some significant change, otherwise they appear unnecessary.  Significant change is disruptive and not always better.
3) management usually goes with whatever change, because otherwise hiring the consulting company for a significant sum appears wasteful and  pointless.

In sum, once the process is initiated, everyone has to justify their role/decision.

I do think most NBA teams could be run better and more professionally.  But bringing in McKinsey to streamline and re-organize a basketball team is problematic.  Especially since they have no experience in the field.  They don't really know what works, what's standard or even why.

Be interesting to know how much McKinsey got paid for their work.

Dolan doesn't know how to run a team.
There has to be a happy medium between letting Marbury cousins swarm all over the joint and having a bunch of McKinsey suits telling NBA coaches and lifers how to do their jobs.

Things got so bad that the NBA pressured Dolan to hire Donny Walsh as a competent adult who could restore sanity and trust to the Knix.
I think players talk and some avoid NYK as Dolan has developed a losing tradition, a losing culture and NY has come to be known as a place where reputations get shredded.

Currently, the Perry-Mills duo is supposed to be competent and patient aimed to bring back respectability.  We'll see how long that lasts.   I like that we didn't bring in the flashiest of coaches and were willing to undergo a tank year to get a high pick.  Let's see if we cna maintain patience long-term.
Title: Some thoughts on paperwork and workplace changes
Post by: bodiddley on August 04, 2019, 03:56:01 AM
Some thoughts on paperwork and workplace changes:

One of Boris Johnson's first acts as new UK PM was to announce a plan to hire an additional 20,000 police.  Over the past 10 years, the national police force was trimmed from 140K to 120K.  The impetus/theory was to remove all the paper-pushers who were deemed unnecessary.  Which they did.  Which meant all the officers spent more time in the office doing paperwork and not on the beat.  Which was not good.

And now it's going to be difficult and expensive to try to quickly train 20K police quickly and get them on the streets in the next few years.  It'd be more efficient and effective to hire more police office staff and allow the current trained officers to spend more time policing.  Which was the previous status quo.  Instead a negative cascade was put in place and continues.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 04, 2019, 02:45:03 PM
Randle not playing for USA; Barrett not playing for Canada; Melo not playing for anybody.

Knix didn't rate an Xmas game.
KZ @ MSG Nov 14
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 04, 2019, 05:48:23 PM
 Randle dropped out or he didn't get selected?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 04, 2019, 06:01:51 PM
Cited as a family issue.

http://mobile.twitter.com/WindhorstESPN/status/1157658252097859590 (http://mobile.twitter.com/WindhorstESPN/status/1157658252097859590)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on August 04, 2019, 09:38:10 PM
What Enes Said....

https://mobile.twitter.com/EnesKanter/status/1158074534303432705 (https://mobile.twitter.com/EnesKanter/status/1158074534303432705)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 04, 2019, 11:42:40 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 03, 2019, 07:40:26 AM


So a business firm with no hoops experience comes in, tells hoops lifers how to do their jobs, and everyone gets paranoid and feels someone is watching them all the time.

That's Dolan in a nutshell.

What a sweet consulting gig.  I'm envious.  I once got to consult for MLB.  But the IT side.  It would be ridiculous to let me in on practices.  But hey... i'll take the job.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 05, 2019, 02:48:17 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on August 04, 2019, 09:38:10 PM
What Enes Said....

https://mobile.twitter.com/EnesKanter/status/1158074534303432705 (https://mobile.twitter.com/EnesKanter/status/1158074534303432705)

Very much so.

He’ll have fun as a Celtic and remain an athlete worth paying attention to.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 05, 2019, 06:50:07 PM
France & Turkey played a warm up. Trying to find a box score somewhere.
Title: La France
Post by: carlos123 on August 05, 2019, 11:25:25 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 05, 2019, 06:50:07 PM
France & Turkey played a warm up. Trying to find a box score somewhere.

http://sport24.lefigaro.fr/basket/equipe-de-france/actualites/basket-les-bleus-souffrent-et-s-inclinent-devant-la-turquie-968714 (http://sport24.lefigaro.fr/basket/equipe-de-france/actualites/basket-les-bleus-souffrent-et-s-inclinent-devant-la-turquie-968714)

No box score exactly, but you get the final score and a reference to Ntilikina.

"Quant à Franck Ntilikina, il a étrenné son maillot bleu à 43 secondes de la fin du premier quart-temps. Et de balle manière : le meneur des Knicks de New-York a offert une passe décisive à Vincent Poirier (22-17, 10e). Ntilikina (15 min, 2 pts, 2 rbs, 6 passes) a également montré une belle présence défensive."

If you need help with the translation, M. Chico peux aider-toi.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 06, 2019, 12:34:50 AM
Apparently Franc is the "meneur des Knicks de New-York"

Une belle présence défensive is music to my ears.

Those French ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 06, 2019, 03:51:54 AM
From the highlights I saw, it seemed a typical low minute Frank game from either of the last two years.
Title: Re: Show 'em what they know not through flows of hot molasses
Post by: thebizneverloses on August 06, 2019, 07:43:51 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 01, 2019, 03:44:29 AM
He rarely blocks anybody or makes a key defensive play, while Lillard usually takes all the late game clutch shots.  Definitely something to build on for McC.
In the next series v. GS, McC shot 39% and POR was swept.
Which has been POR's standard fate in the Lillard-McC era.

Lillard & McC have been the West Coast edition of Lowry & DeRozan.  A  competitive regular season duo who fade in the playoffs.  Last year was an exception (though they did flame out in a sweep).  Size, iffy defense and streaky shooting undermine them.  I think POR got a bit lucky last year to get a very good but inexperienced DEN team.  With Hood and Zach giving unexpectedly good support.

Going forward, losing Mo Hark and Aminu will hurt their defense and chemistry.  Whiteside not exactly known as a great teammate.
Will need Hood and Zach to be consistent.
Their bench looks awfully thin (Bazemore and a few young guys).
The Nurkic injury set them back.
47 W's is my call.

Whiteside and Bazemore are both big endings contracts, but the days of flipping those for value seems gone.   And POR can't really afford to add more long-term money.

I feel, Bo, like you're doubling down because you feel you have to. And in the process, making quite a lot of rather iffy statements. Like your ridiculous assertion that Lowry played poorly in these playoffs. I won't say everything is dead wrong (and I'm fine with your conclusion of 47 wins as a projection, although injuries tend to determine such things) - but there's a certain defiance despite, as I said, some of these statements being rather debatable.

"while Lillard usually takes all the late game clutch shots.  " - Go watch G7 against the Nuggets and that super long multi-OT game. CJ was taking (and making) the late game clutch shots. Dame is smart, he defers when CJ is cooking. Sometimes it is Dame, sometimes it is CJ.

"A  competitive regular season duo who fade in the playoffs.  " - CJ increased his PER the last two seasons from the regular season to the playoffs. Dame didn't, but he certainly had some spectacular moments during this playoff run (while generally struggling with his efficiency).

"I think POR got a bit lucky last year to get a very good but inexperienced DEN team." I'd say maybe they were lucky to avoid Houston, but at worst they were the 3rd best team in the W when all was said and done. Probably at worst the 6th best team in the league. That is still very good.

"Whiteside not exactly known as a great teammate" He's not my type of player either, but I'm actually optimistic that Portland is a good spot for him, and expect a bounce-back season. Dame is known as brilliant in the locker-room.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 06, 2019, 10:48:43 AM
The emergence of Zach Collins being overlooked, I believe

14-9-2 with 2 blocks per 36 as a 21 year old

13.5 PER, up from 7.5 (if only we could see same from Frank)

4.2 mil this year.  Team option at 5.4 for '20-21 will certainly be exercised.
Title: Re: Show 'em what they know not through flows of hot molasses
Post by: bodiddley on August 06, 2019, 12:00:04 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on August 06, 2019, 07:43:51 AM
"while Lillard usually takes all the late game clutch shots.  " - Go watch G7 against the Nuggets and that super long multi-OT game. CJ was taking (and making) the late game clutch shots. Dame is smart, he defers when CJ is cooking. Sometimes it is Dame, sometimes it is CJ.

You missed the context.  I was exactly talking about that CJ G7 and saying that it was anomalous as Lillard usually takes the clutch shots.  If CJ can start being a go-to option late, that would help diversify their offense.

I like Zach, but he might be asked to be more than he's ready for.  Big starting minutes.  While he needs to blend with Whiteside.  Pau should be a terrific mentor for Zach.  POR just needs Pau to manage half a season as a backup Big until Nurk returns.

No one doubts that they've had a pretty successful run and CJ has become a nice player.  But overall, I just don't see their path into true contention.  I like UTA and DEN better this year.  HOU is always tough, if somewhat weirdly constructed.  Both LA teams are going to be in the mix.  GS no creampuff, though will be better 2nd half when Klay returns.  Not going to be easy for POR to get homecourt this year.  Probably in the 5-6 range.  I'd say more like 6th.

I think they've taken a step back.
Aminu and Hark did a lot of good scrappy stuff -- screens, defense, boards.
7 new players to work in.  Really 3 new starters, with Zach, Hood and Whiteside.

Their bench looks real shaky.  It's Bazemore and .... <shrug>.  And Bazemore is a bit reckless and sloppy.  That's been a problem for them in the past.  When Lillard comes out, they lose the lead, and he needs to play big minutes and get worn down.  They haven't addressed that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 06, 2019, 01:02:55 PM
And they lost Kanter!  Huge loss!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 06, 2019, 01:30:40 PM
I see Whiteside as the definite starter at center for Blazers

Collins likely gets 10-12 shots if he gets 28 minutes
Title: Re: Le Français de Chico
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 06, 2019, 02:20:41 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on August 01, 2019, 10:30:15 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on August 01, 2019, 12:25:44 PM

No feaux title whatsoever

Feaux ... Qu'est-ce que c'est?

(https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/the-mexican-point-guard-jorge-ivan-gutierrez-moves-the-ball-to-the-picture-id545175840)
M. Chico, le meneur de jeu.

This is fucking awesome

Who is that dude?
Title: TBT final tonight
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 06, 2019, 06:26:11 PM
No Jimmer but we do get Travis Diener

Preview

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/27327254/expert-picks-roster-breakdown-tv-info-tip-2019-tbt-final
Title: ADMINISTRATOR
Post by: carlos123 on August 06, 2019, 10:13:38 PM
Hey there, I had to switch browsers because in the one I use regularly I got this message:

"Sorry carlos123, you are banned from using this forum!
This ban is not set to expire."

Are you serious or is it some kind of error?
Title: Re: ADMINISTRATOR
Post by: Kam on August 06, 2019, 10:47:04 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on August 06, 2019, 10:13:38 PM
Hey there, I had to switch browsers because in the one I use regularly I got this message:

"Sorry carlos123, you are banned from using this forum!
This ban is not set to expire."

Are you serious or is it some kind of error?

Turkey owns Elba dummy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 07, 2019, 02:27:50 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on August 06, 2019, 01:30:40 PM
I see Whiteside as the definite starter at center for Blazers

Even after Nurk returns?

Quote
Collins likely gets 10-12 shots if he gets 28 minutes

Is 28 mins enough?
Who backs up the 4?
Labissiere and Tollver?
Tolliver is 34 and on his 11th team in 12 seasons.
I've barely seen Skal.

Has to be one of the weakest benches in the League.

Last year Zach only had to play 18 mins per.
Only had one game of 28 or more minutes.
Though 11 games of 25 or more.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 07, 2019, 03:29:28 AM
Are you trying to figure out if Portland is a true contender or if they’ll be any good. My guess is they’ll be pretty good.

Health, good fortune, and in season moves play too large a factor in title runs and things are so broadly shaken up to make calls on contention.

I think they will finish ahead of one or more LA teams in both the regular season and the playoffs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 07, 2019, 03:43:33 AM
Czarlos,
If you are using the same computer, then you're IP address isn't banned.
So just try deleting the cookies for Elba in your old browser and seeing if that works.
Sometimes they try to block out bots and genuine posters get caught in the crossfire.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 07, 2019, 09:10:28 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 07, 2019, 02:27:50 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on August 06, 2019, 01:30:40 PM
I see Whiteside as the definite starter at center for Blazers

Even after Nurk returns?

Quote
Collins likely gets 10-12 shots if he gets 28 minutes

Is 28 mins enough?
Who backs up the 4?
Labissiere and Tollver?
Tolliver is 34 and on his 11th team in 12 seasons.
I've barely seen Skal.

Has to be one of the weakest benches in the League.

Last year Zach only had to play 18 mins per.
Only had one game of 28 or more minutes.
Though 11 games of 25 or more.

Jeez just fucking stop. You must be some failed athlete with a need to cut down players. It’s TIRED.

Let’s hear why you LIKE the other teams. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 07, 2019, 09:14:40 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 07, 2019, 03:29:28 AM
Are you trying to figure out if Portland is a true contender or if they’ll be any good. My guess is they’ll be pretty good.

Health, good fortune, and in season moves play too large a factor in title runs and things are so broadly shaken up to make calls on contention.

I think they will finish ahead of one or more LA teams in both the regular season and the playoffs.

Have to be considered a contender - off last season’s run.

May be tougher, with LA teams, Dallas, Denver progressing

Good hoops - good drama - good league(despite how shitty all these bench guys are - heh)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 07, 2019, 12:24:26 PM
I think you're projecting again.

A number of teams the past few years have had playoff quality starters and weak benches and it's hurt them.  This has been a trend for the past few years, and I've commented on it a fair amount.  WAS, CHA, NOP and DET have all faltered the past few seasons due largely to poor bench play.  Which puts added pressure on the starters and forces them to play big minutes and get tired for crunch time.
Probably a few other teams as well. 

I'm amazed how weak and scraggly so many benches are.  And think it's a real failure by many GM's.  Sure, bad moves such as Mahinmi's absurd bloated contract (when they already had a starting C) make it harder to add players. 

But the Knix have done a fine job of getting depth on the cheap, picking up so-called "second draft" players, signing undrafted guys (Baker, Trier, etc), finding capable 2nd rounders (Mitch, Dot).  Now our starters haven't been talented enough, but we've done very well at building benches cheaply and providing adequate depth.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 07, 2019, 12:38:52 PM
It's a different team with 7 new players and 3 new starters, so I don't think last year's run has predictive power.  And the weak bench -- which I've detailed -- is going to be problematic.  I think POR has taken a step back.

This offseason there has been so much movement, it's hard to keep up with who is where and what the 8 or ten man rotation will be for any given team.  POR came up, so I analyzed what they did, who they have and identified potential weak spots.

Maybe I'll go to the NBA forum and try to do a team a week.  Summer is slow.

I did look at the Clips a couple weeks ago.  They look terrific on paper, but really need a backup PG, as Pa Bev isn't durable, Lou W a sieve, and you don't want PG13 to have to be a full time PG if/when PaBev misses time.  I assume they are aware of that hole, and will try to fill it with a vet.    JaMike and Mo Hark provide nice depth.  Shamet a professional scorer and can learn a lot form LouW.
Get a credible backup PG and I'm on board.
PG had shoulder surgery and might miss the first month or so.
So that could slow them down out of the gate.

Really like the Jer Grant addition for DEN.  And hopefully Porter Jr can get on the court.  I'm a Juancho fan too.  Very deep team.  And another year of experience will come in handy.  I'm not a Will Barton fan, as he likes taking difficult shots. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 07, 2019, 01:27:25 PM
Shamet is a PG.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 07, 2019, 02:24:37 PM
Shaman's a gunner, and a good one.
A lot like Lou W or Reddick.

I don't think he has ballhandling or passing chops.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 07, 2019, 02:45:43 PM
Well, you remain malinformed.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 07, 2019, 04:06:01 PM
I recall he showed some lead guard chops at times in college. In the league he’s been deployed as a shooting wing by both Philly and the Clips.

If he has the ability to play NBA pg, we’ll probably see it this year based on his team’s roster.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 07, 2019, 06:54:07 PM
Yep

Good passer

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201901260DEN.html

Rookie-year projection

Shamet could earn minutes with the second unit for his backcourt versatility and efficient brand of offense. His ability to pass and shoot should help him work off any guard. It could take a year for him to adjust to a deeper arc, though, given the line-drive arch on his shot. And he could struggle to finish at the rim. Throw in the defensive questions, and Shamet will likely go stretches in which he's forced to watch from the bench.

Projected role

He's 21 years old, and he's suffered multiple foot injuries. And without the jets to penetrate or fly in transition, Shamet projects as more of a backup game-managing type of guard. He'll press the right buttons at the point but also slide off the ball and threaten the defense as a spot-up shooter off the bench

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 07, 2019, 07:11:10 PM
Landry Shamet and Conner Frankamp, the guards who replaced Ron and Fred, have developed into one of the best duos WSU has had, especially over the past month.

Shamet started the season as WSU’s shooting guard and Frankamp played the point. Then junior Daishon Smith replaced Frankamp. Then freshman Austin Reaves started getting more minutes.

Finally, though, it was Shamet’s move to the point and Frankamp’s move to play off the ball that really sparked this team.






https://www.kansas.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/bob-lutz/article136970253.html

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 07, 2019, 07:16:05 PM
Great shooter - you are right about that.
Title: Re: ADMINISTRATOR
Post by: carlos123 on August 07, 2019, 08:25:24 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on August 06, 2019, 10:13:38 PM
Hey there, I had to switch browsers because in the one I use regularly I got this message:

"Sorry carlos123, you are banned from using this forum!
This ban is not set to expire."

Are you serious or is it some kind of error?

Quote from: bodiddley on August 07, 2019, 03:43:33 AM
Czarlos,
If you are using the same computer, then you're IP address isn't banned.
So just try deleting the cookies for Elba in your old browser and seeing if that works.
Sometimes they try to block out bots and genuine posters get caught in the crossfire.

Thank you BoZ, but it didn't work.

I deleted all the cookies in the old browser, which is a pain because it also deletes the useful ones.
Then I was able to see the forum, but the moment I tried to log in I was kicked out with the same message.
I have no idea if the administrator reads the posts in the forum or how to let him know if he doesn't.
Title: Update
Post by: carlos123 on August 07, 2019, 09:25:44 PM
After a second cleanup, it's working now. Hope it lasts.
Thanks again BoZ.
Title: Re: ADMINISTRATOR
Post by: Kam on August 07, 2019, 09:25:59 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on August 07, 2019, 08:25:24 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on August 06, 2019, 10:13:38 PM
Hey there, I had to switch browsers because in the one I use regularly I got this message:

"Sorry carlos123, you are banned from using this forum!
This ban is not set to expire."

Are you serious or is it some kind of error?

Quote from: bodiddley on August 07, 2019, 03:43:33 AM
Czarlos,
If you are using the same computer, then you're IP address isn't banned.
So just try deleting the cookies for Elba in your old browser and seeing if that works.
Sometimes they try to block out bots and genuine posters get caught in the crossfire.

Thank you BoZ, but it didn't work.

I deleted all the cookies in the old browser, which is a pain because it also deletes the useful ones.
Then I was able to see the forum, but the moment I tried to log in I was kicked out with the same message.
I have no idea if the administrator reads the posts in the forum or how to let him know if he doesn't.

I got banned also.  But this is Elba.  These things happen.
Title: Re: ADMINISTRATOR
Post by: carlos123 on August 07, 2019, 09:39:45 PM
Quote from: Kam on August 07, 2019, 09:25:59 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on August 07, 2019, 08:25:24 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on August 06, 2019, 10:13:38 PM
Hey there, I had to switch browsers because in the one I use regularly I got this message:

"Sorry carlos123, you are banned from using this forum!
This ban is not set to expire."

Are you serious or is it some kind of error?

Quote from: bodiddley on August 07, 2019, 03:43:33 AM
Czarlos,
If you are using the same computer, then you're IP address isn't banned.
So just try deleting the cookies for Elba in your old browser and seeing if that works.
Sometimes they try to block out bots and genuine posters get caught in the crossfire.

Thank you BoZ, but it didn't work.

I deleted all the cookies in the old browser, which is a pain because it also deletes the useful ones.
Then I was able to see the forum, but the moment I tried to log in I was kicked out with the same message.
I have no idea if the administrator reads the posts in the forum or how to let him know if he doesn't.

I got banned also.  But this is Elba.  These things happen.

Thankfully it's Elba and not Ankara.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/5Cc02FRtyEcX20gKGb5e4xbjkmrMJzHLXhREbkl_5VRRs0q7jp6d07wx0Ycxr1kKLKc308sT66fns17M6g=w330-h220-rw)
Enes says hello from Boston
(https://www.nba.com/celtics/sites/celtics/files/kanter-release_0.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 07, 2019, 10:21:12 PM
Gonna be tough rooting against E.K.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 07, 2019, 11:43:04 PM
Josh is the moderator hereabouts.
If you click Members up at the Top, then click the Posts column, his name will come up first.  Click on his name and you can PM him.

I also have an email address for him (or maybe it's for site admin liquidsilver).
I can find that if you want.

For some browsers, it's relatively easy to scroll through your cookies and delete just the ones from a specific site.  I'm on Chrome and it allows you to do that.
I think Firefox does as well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 08, 2019, 12:26:04 AM
We'll see on Shamet.
I saw an article saying LouW would be the backup PG.
Agree that Shamet would be a better option if capable.
They can probably patch together a backup PG between those two and using PG13 as point-forward during the regular season.

But last year was Pa Bev's first healthy year in forever.  If he misses time, then you need a spot-starting PG.

I saw Shamet a good deal on PHI and his role there was to shoot.  Surprised me how effective he was.  If he's got adequate combo-guard skills, that's a bonus for LAC.  It's not the role he had last year, when Doc had him running Reddick sets off screens.   Could be a good op for Shamet to display his versatility.  Just hope it doesn't affect his (elite last year) shooting.  I'd still feel better if they picked up Jer Lin or some other unaffiliated vet PG.

Btw, Clips have a surplus of SG's. 
PG13.  Shamet.  Lou W.  Jerome Robinson (#19 pick two years ago).  McGruder (fine defender/energy guy).  PG13 can play SF, and hopefully Shamet some PG.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 08, 2019, 01:14:09 AM
http://teamfrancebasket.com/game/414152 (http://teamfrancebasket.com/game/414152)

7pts on 2-7 & 1-3 from 3, 5 dimes & a steal for young Frank. Tunisia is no Turkey.

I think Nando, who was playing in front of him, might have gotten hurt.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 08, 2019, 05:26:54 AM
There were a few years where many teams gambled and cheaped out on backup
PG's.  Sometimes an injury to a starting PG meant a min salary guy had to start.

But it seems there's a new trend of some teams eschewing backup PG's altogether.

ATL has Trae Young and no other PG.  Evan Turner the closest approximation. 

GS has Scurry and ____?  I guess it's tangelo when Scurry sits (after Klay returns).  But Kerr plans to use Scurry, Tangelo and Klay together, mostly because they don't have a starting quality SF.  Thinnest GS team in a long while.

MIA has Dragic, who breaks down often, and an undrafted GLeague combo guard named Kendrick Nunn.   


As for the cheap route:
BOS has two 2nd round rooks as their backup PG's.  But likely combo guard Smart is the backup PG.  Thinnest Celt team in quite a while.

CHA a 2nd year 2nd rounder (Devonte Graham) as backup to Rozier, a first time starter.

PHX has three late PG draft picks behind Rubio (two early 2nd rounders)


That's 5 or 6 teams barely prioritizing backup PG at all.
I don't understand the thinking.  Seems the idea is that a wing can handle much of the distributing and ballhandling -- a Jimmy Butler, Paul George, etc.


A few teams run 3 deep at PG:
IND, DAL, KNIX, NOPe, TOR, CHI (sorta), LAL. OKC (until they trade CP3 or Shrodeinger's Cat)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on August 08, 2019, 07:33:56 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 07, 2019, 02:24:37 PM
Shaman's a gunner, and a good one.
A lot like Lou W or Reddick.

I don't think he has ballhandling or passing chops.

With Kawhi and PG, I don't think the 1 needs to have traditional playmaking chops. Shamet can definitely log a lot of time as the nominal PG, in a Mario Chalmers type way, next to those two.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on August 08, 2019, 07:35:09 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on August 07, 2019, 09:14:40 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 07, 2019, 03:29:28 AM
Are you trying to figure out if Portland is a true contender or if they’ll be any good. My guess is they’ll be pretty good.

Health, good fortune, and in season moves play too large a factor in title runs and things are so broadly shaken up to make calls on contention.

I think they will finish ahead of one or more LA teams in both the regular season and the playoffs.

Have to be considered a contender - off last season’s run.

May be tougher, with LA teams, Dallas, Denver progressing

Good hoops - good drama - good league(despite how shitty all these bench guys are - heh)

Is the implication Dallas is in the same tier as the LA teams and Denver? Laughable.
Title: Re: Show 'em what they know not through flows of hot molasses
Post by: thebizneverloses on August 08, 2019, 07:36:10 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 06, 2019, 12:00:04 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on August 06, 2019, 07:43:51 AM
"while Lillard usually takes all the late game clutch shots.  " - Go watch G7 against the Nuggets and that super long multi-OT game. CJ was taking (and making) the late game clutch shots. Dame is smart, he defers when CJ is cooking. Sometimes it is Dame, sometimes it is CJ.

You missed the context.  I was exactly talking about that CJ G7 and saying that it was anomalous as Lillard usually takes the clutch shots.  If CJ can start being a go-to option late, that would help diversify their offense.

I like Zach, but he might be asked to be more than he's ready for.  Big starting minutes.  While he needs to blend with Whiteside.  Pau should be a terrific mentor for Zach.  POR just needs Pau to manage half a season as a backup Big until Nurk returns.

No one doubts that they've had a pretty successful run and CJ has become a nice player.  But overall, I just don't see their path into true contention.  I like UTA and DEN better this year.  HOU is always tough, if somewhat weirdly constructed.  Both LA teams are going to be in the mix.  GS no creampuff, though will be better 2nd half when Klay returns.  Not going to be easy for POR to get homecourt this year.  Probably in the 5-6 range.  I'd say more like 6th.

I think they've taken a step back.
Aminu and Hark did a lot of good scrappy stuff -- screens, defense, boards.
7 new players to work in.  Really 3 new starters, with Zach, Hood and Whiteside.

Their bench looks real shaky.  It's Bazemore and .... <shrug>.  And Bazemore is a bit reckless and sloppy.  That's been a problem for them in the past.  When Lillard comes out, they lose the lead, and he needs to play big minutes and get worn down.  They haven't addressed that.


I'd agree with everything here. Watchout for Anfernee Simons off the bench though, he's expected to make a major leap.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on August 08, 2019, 07:36:56 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 06, 2019, 10:48:43 AM
The emergence of Zach Collins being overlooked, I believe

14-9-2 with 2 blocks per 36 as a 21 year old

13.5 PER, up from 7.5 (if only we could see same from Frank)

4.2 mil this year.  Team option at 5.4 for '20-21 will certainly be exercised.

Really like Zach. Key question is whether he can guard smaller 4s.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 08, 2019, 09:38:31 AM
8, 6, 6, 6, 9, 7, 7, 10, 11, 6, 6, 6, 6, 8, 6, 7, 9, 6

Assist totals for.......  ?

(also had 5 12 times)

Hint - NOT a point guard.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 08, 2019, 11:30:49 AM
Simons somewhat of a mystery man.
I know they have said for a while that they are high on him.

Zach will have to be careful to avoid foul trouble.
I like his attitude and feistiness, but as a starter expected to play big minutes you need to use your fouls and contest judiciously.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 08, 2019, 12:46:16 PM
Quote from: thebizneverloses on August 08, 2019, 07:35:09 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on August 07, 2019, 09:14:40 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 07, 2019, 03:29:28 AM
Are you trying to figure out if Portland is a true contender or if they’ll be any good. My guess is they’ll be pretty good.

Health, good fortune, and in season moves play too large a factor in title runs and things are so broadly shaken up to make calls on contention.

I think they will finish ahead of one or more LA teams in both the regular season and the playoffs.

Have to be considered a contender - off last season’s run.

May be tougher, with LA teams, Dallas, Denver progressing

Good hoops - good drama - good league(despite how shitty all these bench guys are - heh)

Is the implication Dallas is in the same tier as the LA teams and Denver? Laughable.

Those are the three West teams that I feel progressed
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 08, 2019, 01:37:59 PM
Looks like 4 to me.

I think Utah improved its starting 5 significantly (Conley and Bogdanovich).
I'm not too thrilled with their bench.
So I've downgraded my enthusiasm somewhat.

I think DAL should be interesting and they have some nice depth.
But don't see them making the playoffs at all.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 08, 2019, 04:37:54 PM
 Good article on RJ.

http://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/8/8/20756167/rj-barrett-new-york-knicks (http://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/8/8/20756167/rj-barrett-new-york-knicks)

Mitch has something up with his knee.
Title: Rj Barrett a starter?
Post by: Kam on August 08, 2019, 07:01:36 PM
Well... the same logic that says Marcus Morris should start over Knox would apply to Rj as well.

At present; Morris is a better player than Knox.

Do we have better NBA players than Barrett at the 2?

Weaker argument there.  Iso Zo himself is just a 2nd year guy.

Maybe that was the plan for Sir Ellington of Wayne.

Maybe Smith and Payton start in a dual PG backcourt.
Title: First round bench mob
Post by: Kam on August 08, 2019, 07:15:53 PM
I like the idea of Frank, RJ, and Knox bonding on the bench and developing chemistry together in an athletic two-way second unit.  Along with Portis and Taj the old man shaking his head at the young pups miscues.
Title: You jinxed it
Post by: carlos123 on August 10, 2019, 09:52:03 PM
Quote from: Kam on August 08, 2019, 07:15:53 PM
I like the idea of Frank, RJ, and Knox bonding on the bench and developing chemistry together in an athletic two-way second unit.  Along with Portis and Taj the old man shaking his head at the young pups miscues.

Kam(s)ter, I don't know if the idea that you liked was good or crazy, but sorta killed the conversation here.

Try something else. How about ...

GO ENES!

PS. Fac, I like your new avatar 😆
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 10, 2019, 11:00:03 PM
Thanks Carlos!

If 2 of the Frank, RJ, Knox group hit threes at a good clip, they could become a tough group on the perimeter.

Fizz should have put the work into Frank last year instead of the guy currently slated to play back up PG for the Jazz.

I think Payton will start and hold down the PG spot for us this year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 10, 2019, 11:05:00 PM
Beasley to the Pistons, suspension and all.
Title: Re: First round bench mob
Post by: bodiddley on August 11, 2019, 03:17:39 AM
Quote from: Kam on August 08, 2019, 07:15:53 PM
I like the idea of Frank, RJ, and Knox bonding on the bench and developing chemistry together in an athletic two-way second unit.  Along with Portis and Taj the old man shaking his head at the young pups miscues.

Depends what the goal is.
Are we hungry/desperate for playoffs?
Maybe it's best not to throw R&B into the deep end as we did with Knox last year.  Let him acclimatize slowly to the NBA game.

Assuming Morris-Randle-Mitch start.
Then we're really talking the G corps.

Which G pairing will fit together?
Which G pair will mesh with that frontcourt?

Usually you want from your G's: distributing, 3-point shooting, scoring, defense, penetration, ballhandling.

Trier and Ellington would be our only G 3-point shooters.  Datsun too.
Franc a stolid defender.
Jr. Smith and RJ penetrators (somewhat of the head down variety).
Peyton maybe the best ball mover.

Which G combos offer the most balance and efficacy?
Smith & Trier give you nice athleticism and attacking.  Iffy D.  Not great passing.
Peyton & Ellington provide experience, but limited upside and crowd out the yute.
Peyton & RJ are a weak outside shooting pair.
Same with Smith & RJ.  Make for a running team, which Randle likes as well, and Morris a good Melo-esque trailer.  But not much D and limited 3's.
Franc & RJ -- could they handle and distribute enough?  Long-armed athletic D.  Limited 3-point shooting.
Peyton & Trier.  Kind of okay and balanced but unexciting.  Steady?
Smith & Ellington?  Attacking and 3's.  Could be something there.

I'd kind of hate to see all our yute on the bench.
If we went that way, I'd want the yute to get significant minutes.  And hope one (or more) could break through into the starting lineup by midseason.  RJ/Knox/Jr. Smith.

Knix need a balance between Win Now and Development.
Winning is good for confidence and chemistry.  But lots of vets on short contracts and lots of yute need to see the court to improve.
Title: Lotta G's. No legit G starters.
Post by: bodiddley on August 11, 2019, 03:30:26 AM
I'd like Trier to start for his 3-point shot and energy.  But he's not a good defender, is a bit of a black hole so vets might stand around annoyed.  Really his best role is as a bench instant offense type.

Smith Jr. -- I'd like him to start.  Push the pace.  Attack.  Take wide open 3's.  Can he run an offense?  He showed some chemistry with Mitch.  Can he help Randle and Morris get good looks?

Peyton -- he's really a seasoned backup PG.  A bit crafty and competitive.  Doesn't shoot well.  More pesky than good defense.

RJB -- I'd like him starting if he's ready for it.  But he's young with holes in his game.  And none of our PG's can hit 3's, so not a good pairing.

Ellington -- maybe he makes most sense being a 3&D guy next to Smith.  No upside and just takes minutes from yute.  But maybe he can steady things.  Too much of a jacker for my taste.  Can he settle down and just take good 3's and move the ball, instead of heaving crazy shots?

Franc -- our best G defender.  So I'd like him out there.  But he needs to offend as well.  Can Franc handle and set up and do enough scoring to keep defenses honest?

Datsun -- in danger of being the forgotten man in the Ron Baker Memorial 7th G role.  But he has two-way potential.  And I'd rather he gets minutes over Ellington.    maybe it comes down to who is a better long-term backup SG option -- Trier or Datsun.  Which probably depends on what your team needs.   

Lotta G's.
No legit G starters.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 11, 2019, 04:24:09 AM
I think if no one else is hitting shots Ellington gets minutes, otherwise no so much.

Dot can learn from him & outplay him at the same time. I’d bet Iggy & Trier can as well. RJ’s minutes should be determined primarily by his energy level and his D. Frank needs to dial in his finishing or his stroke or both while staying healthy. I’m not thinking about Reggie yet.

Looking at Timmy’s early season numbers, and Mudiay’s season long uptick in production and efficiency, it’s tempting to project similar development for Payton with our staff and in our system, which would make him a fairly complete NBA point guard. DSJ + efficient shooting would be very dangerous. If Trier can defend PG’s when initiators like Randle or RJ are available, running Trier at point could make sense. If Frank finds his magic feather... what would be weirder, that or RJ finding that point guard is his natural position?

Some of it will depend on synergy and combinations of intangibles.

And then there’s always health issues that crop up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 11, 2019, 05:40:04 PM
Team USA update

Bam and Thad replaced by Bagley and D White

17 players, 5 cuts left

https://www.nba.com/article/2019/08/10/team-usa-reshuffles-roster-after-intrasquad-scrimmage

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 12, 2019, 03:09:13 AM
Bagley bags it ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 12, 2019, 03:21:54 AM
And then there were 16.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 12, 2019, 04:06:05 AM
You'd think it would be a great op for a young guy like Bagley.
Up his profile, play with future all-stars, compete at a high level, coached by Pops and Co, see the world a bit. 

Also, Fox and Barnes are on the team, so it's a chance to work with the two key players on your team during the mid-Summer.

So I don't get it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 12, 2019, 11:01:52 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 10, 2019, 11:00:03 PM
Thanks Carlos!

If 2 of the Frank, RJ, Knox group hit threes at a good clip, they could become a tough group on the perimeter.

Fizz should have put the work into Frank last year instead of the guy currently slated to play back up PG for the Jazz.

I think Payton will start and hold down the PG spot for us this year.

I favor this as well if the roster stays as is

I also see Smith coming off the bench like a house of fire

2 guards will do a lot of sitting if not producing but I do see many games where we play 10/11
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 13, 2019, 05:28:01 PM
Deep rotations allow you to demand energy and play aggressive D despite tight whistles.

I don’t think anyone can expect to get more than 30 minutes a game this season except Randle unless they play so well that it makes it impossible to pull them off the floor. I think it’s more likely we see a spread of minutes and production at most spots.

Under this scenario, non-Randle starters could see 24-28 minutes per game.

We have enough vets to pepper them over two platoons to reenforce a continuity of professional play while still having room to work in our various tiers of youth.
Title: 0-3 out the gate
Post by: Kam on August 13, 2019, 06:45:05 PM
@Spurs
Brooklyn
Boston
Title: You can’t stop me
Post by: Kam on August 13, 2019, 07:35:03 PM
I’m no longer banned on Elba when using safari on my phone!


Take that for data Carlos123!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 13, 2019, 07:54:26 PM
Oh shit! Kam’s Back. Fizz better be on his toes!
Title: A full month worth of games and Zero Wins
Post by: Kam on August 13, 2019, 09:34:02 PM
Wednesday, Nov. 20 at Philadelphia, 7 p.m.
Saturday, Nov. 23 vs. San Antonio, 7:30 p.m.
Sunday, Nov. 24 vs. Brooklyn, 6 p.m.
Wednesday, Nov. 27 at Toronto, 7:30 p.m.
Friday, Nov. 29 vs. Philadelphia, 7:30 p.m.
Sunday, Dec. 1 vs. Boston, 3:30 p.m.
Sunday, Dec. 2 at Milwaukee, 8 p.m.
Thursday, Dec. 5 vs. Denver, 7:30 p.m.
Saturday, Dec. 7 vs. Indiana, 7:30 p.m.
Tuesday, Dec. 10 at Portland, 10 p.m.
Wednesday, Dec. 11 at Golden State, 10:30 p.m.
Friday, Dec. 13 at Sacramento, 10 p.m.
Sunday, Dec. 15 at Denver, 8 p.m.
Tuesday, Dec. 17 vs. Atlanta, 7:30 p.m.
Friday, Dec. 20 at Miami, 8 p.m.
Saturday, Dec. 21 vs. Milwaukee, 7:30 p.m.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 13, 2019, 09:39:20 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 13, 2019, 07:54:26 PM
Oh shit! Kam’s Back. Fizz better be on his toes!

Fizz is a good guy to have on the staff.  But we need more than a cheerleader at the helm this year.  He needs to earn that salary and not be the jovial "Assistant coach" personality so much.  Be the drill sergeant.  Not their friend.  You didn't "get" anyone "right" last year.
Title: Salad Days
Post by: Kam on August 13, 2019, 09:43:06 PM
Our two easiest stretches of games and best chance to post anything approaching a 3+ game win streak.

Monday, Feb. 3 at Cleveland, 7 p.m.
Thursday, Feb. 6 vs. Orlando, 7:30 p.m.
Saturday, Feb. 8 at Detroit, 7 p.m.
Sunday, Feb. 9 at Atlanta, 6 p.m.
Wednesday, Feb. 12 vs. Washington, 7:30 p.m.




Friday, March 6 vs. Oklahoma City, 7:30 p.m.
Sunday, March 8 vs. Detroit, 7:30 p.m.
Tuesday, March 10 at Washington, 7 p.m.
Wednesday, March 11 at Atlanta, 7:30 p.m.
Friday, March 13 at Miami, 8 p.m.
Tuesday, March 17 vs. Charlotte, 7:30 p.m.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on August 13, 2019, 11:25:02 PM
With the exception of the Cleveland and Charlotte games, I don't see anything that's guaranteed easy.
Title: Re: 0-3 out the gate
Post by: bodiddley on August 14, 2019, 03:43:54 AM
Quote from: Kam on August 13, 2019, 06:45:05 PM
@Spurs
Brooklyn
Boston

How good is BKY?
And it's practically a home game for NYK.
Unfortunately our home opener is the next night v. BOS 2nd game of a B2B.
But Knix have depth and BOS doesn't.

But after the first three games, comes a real soft next 11.
Tue, Oct 29  v Chicago
Thu, Oct 31 @ Orlando
Sat, Nov 2     @ Boston
Mon, Nov 4  v Sacramento
Thu, Nov 7  @ Detroit
Sat, Nov 9     @ Dallas
Mon, Nov 11 v Cleveland
Wed, Nov 13 @ Chicago
Fri, Nov 15    v  Dallas
Sun, Nov 17  v Charlotte
Tue, Nov 19   v Cleveland

BOS the only playoff team.  Maybe DET or SAC.
So the first month, the first 14 games, have tons of winnable matchups.
Knix might want to play vets heavy early and try to rack up some W's to build confidence.

Great early schedule with a chance to start off with a solid record.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 14, 2019, 04:07:17 AM
It would be nice to have my hopes up for at least a minute.

I’m surprised Kid hasn’t let us know about Rui’s 35 pt outing vs. the Tallblacks in a friendly. Japan won, btw.

I think we have three likely starters in Mitch, Julius, and Marcus. I think RJ will be coming to camp looking to land a starting job. Do any of the other options have the package to deny him a spot?

PG is very unclear. I hope Payton stays healthy this year. It would also be nice if he made his stroke more effective.

I’m torn between accepting Trier as a spark plug or trying to evolve him into a PG a la Chauncey Billups.

Still a few weeks till worlds. Nothing to gnaw on but friendlies, workout vids, interviews, and speculative prognostications.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 14, 2019, 05:35:55 AM
I almost forgot trade proposals

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2848931-1-trade-every-contender-should-make-to-go-all-in#slide5 (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2848931-1-trade-every-contender-should-make-to-go-all-in#slide5)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 14, 2019, 07:32:34 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on August 13, 2019, 11:25:02 PM
With the exception of the Cleveland and Charlotte games, I don't see anything that's guaranteed easy.

OKC should be easy
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 14, 2019, 10:39:36 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 13, 2019, 05:28:01 PM
Deep rotations allow you to demand energy and play aggressive D despite tight whistles.

I don’t think anyone can expect to get more than 30 minutes a game this season except Randle unless they play so well that it makes it impossible to pull them off the floor. I think it’s more likely we see a spread of minutes and production at most spots.

Under this scenario, non-Randle starters could see 24-28 minutes per game.

We have enough vets to pepper them over two platoons to reenforce a continuity of professional play while still having room to work in our various tiers of youth.

So you just foul a lot more?  And are ok with that?

Not what we are looking for

Next!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 14, 2019, 10:40:23 AM
Quote from: Kam on August 14, 2019, 07:32:34 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on August 13, 2019, 11:25:02 PM
With the exception of the Cleveland and Charlotte games, I don't see anything that's guaranteed easy.

OKC should be easy

No easy ones this year
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 14, 2019, 12:30:07 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 14, 2019, 05:35:55 AM
I almost forgot trade proposals

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2848931-1-trade-every-contender-should-make-to-go-all-in#slide5 (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2848931-1-trade-every-contender-should-make-to-go-all-in#slide5)

They should have stopped at 4 or 5 trades.
The 2 Beal trades for instance are interesting.

But then you get LAC giving up solid Mo Hark, last year's #13 pick and a future #1 for a 35 year old Iggy.  Way too much.

MIL trading away their depth (GeoHill, Ilya and DiVincenzo) for Tim Jr.
Yikes.  So Mil would have no backup PG and DJ Wilson as their only backup PF.  All that for the great Tim Jr . . .  I'd rather have Korver and Wes taking my 3's anyway.

PHI hardly can afford a 2-for-1 since their bench is very weak already.

Love for Whiteside & Zach?
Christ.  Love is always injured and has a huge contract.
POR has the highest payroll this season.
They need to let Whiteside's money expire.  And Zach is a cheap good young player.  Throw that all away for a gamble on Love.
If he can stay healthy, it'd be interesting.
Except their 3 best players are all weak defenders. 
If it didn't work out, it'd be an epic disaster.

And I have no idea why MIN would give away Covington for dreck.
But if he's that available, Knix should figure out a package.

A lot of those trades strike me as unbalanced.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 14, 2019, 02:20:42 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on August 14, 2019, 10:39:36 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 13, 2019, 05:28:01 PM
Deep rotations allow you to demand energy and play aggressive D despite tight whistles.

I don’t think anyone can expect to get more than 30 minutes a game this season except Randle unless they play so well that it makes it impossible to pull them off the floor. I think it’s more likely we see a spread of minutes and production at most spots.

Under this scenario, non-Randle starters could see 24-28 minutes per game.

We have enough vets to pepper them over two platoons to reenforce a continuity of professional play while still having room to work in our various tiers of youth.

So you just foul a lot more?  And are ok with that?

Not what we are looking for

Next!

Coaches don’t have to allow players to slack off on D like Fredette and Calderon, your two favorite recent Knicks, to avoid fouling out. Players still need to play smart, but defensive coasting should lead to less time not more. Since we don’t have any big names, this should apply to every player. That’s how we can build the culture we want.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 14, 2019, 02:23:01 PM
Some updated figures for NBA

Just eight teams less than 20-1 to win it all

Take a guess
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 14, 2019, 02:24:19 PM
Just NINE players less than 20-1 for MVP
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 14, 2019, 02:25:52 PM
EIGHT players 20-1 or less to win Rookie of the Year
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 14, 2019, 02:27:41 PM
Stunners

Boston 7-1 to win East

Warriors 8.5-1 to win West
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 14, 2019, 02:37:42 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 14, 2019, 02:20:42 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on August 14, 2019, 10:39:36 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 13, 2019, 05:28:01 PM
Deep rotations allow you to demand energy and play aggressive D despite tight whistles.

I don’t think anyone can expect to get more than 30 minutes a game this season except Randle unless they play so well that it makes it impossible to pull them off the floor. I think it’s more likely we see a spread of minutes and production at most spots.

Under this scenario, non-Randle starters could see 24-28 minutes per game.

We have enough vets to pepper them over two platoons to reenforce a continuity of professional play while still having room to work in our various tiers of youth.

So you just foul a lot more?  And are ok with that?

Not what we are looking for

Next!

Coaches don’t have to allow players to slack off on D like Fredette and Calderon, your two favorite recent Knicks, to avoid fouling out. Players still need to play smart, but defensive coasting should lead to less time not more. Since we don’t have any big names, this should apply to every player. That’s how we can build the culture we want.

I have no problem with defense

Sadly we so often lose the game at the offensive end
Title: Re: You can’t stop me
Post by: carlos123 on August 14, 2019, 09:10:31 PM
Quote from: Kam on August 13, 2019, 07:35:03 PM
I’m no longer banned on Elba when using safari on my phone!

Take that for data Carlos123!

(https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia1.tenor.com%2Fimages%2Fe3f0f00199d257ce99a103d3b3ce021f%2Ftenor.gif%3Fitemid%3D5725212&f=1)
SAY WHAH.....?


(https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2FWwfu9PupJMW1Tz19GO%2Fgiphy.gif&f=1)
NO YOU CAN'T
Title: Re: Lotta G's. No legit G starters.
Post by: Kam on August 14, 2019, 09:39:55 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 11, 2019, 03:30:26 AM
I'd like Trier to start for his 3-point shot and energy.  But he's not a good defender, is a bit of a black hole so vets might stand around annoyed.  Really his best role is as a bench instant offense type.

Smith Jr. -- I'd like him to start.  Push the pace.  Attack.  Take wide open 3's.  Can he run an offense?  He showed some chemistry with Mitch.  Can he help Randle and Morris get good looks?

Peyton -- he's really a seasoned backup PG.  A bit crafty and competitive.  Doesn't shoot well.  More pesky than good defense.

RJB -- I'd like him starting if he's ready for it.  But he's young with holes in his game.  And none of our PG's can hit 3's, so not a good pairing.

Ellington -- maybe he makes most sense being a 3&D guy next to Smith.  No upside and just takes minutes from yute.  But maybe he can steady things.  Too much of a jacker for my taste.  Can he settle down and just take good 3's and move the ball, instead of heaving crazy shots?

Franc -- our best G defender.  So I'd like him out there.  But he needs to offend as well.  Can Franc handle and set up and do enough scoring to keep defenses honest?

Datsun -- in danger of being the forgotten man in the Ron Baker Memorial 7th G role.  But he has two-way potential.  And I'd rather he gets minutes over Ellington.    maybe it comes down to who is a better long-term backup SG option -- Trier or Datsun.  Which probably depends on what your team needs.   

Lotta G's.
No legit G starters.

I don't think all of the above are with the Knicks by opening night.   

Perhaps a trade for some future well-protected first or multiple #2 picks for either Frank or Dot.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 15, 2019, 03:04:14 AM
Haven't the Knix tried and failed to get a 1st for Frankie already?
Datsun gets you maybe a 2nd.  Sell Low on those two, so I would hold off.

I don't see a trade soon.  I assume we'll go into the season with a lot of depth, let guys compete, figure out rotations and combinations, and how to get yute minutes.

Then after things shake out for a few months, a trade might go down after Dec 15 when we can move guys like Portis, Ellington, Peyton and Taj.  I think it's more likely that Franc is thrown in as a sweetener in a larger trade.  Say, Portis, Trier and Franc for Covington.
Or Morris and Franc.  But that might be too little for Minny.
But that's the kind of 2-for-1 or 3-for-1 we can make.  Giving another team depth and a few interesting players for a starter upgrade.

I could see one of Jr. Smith/Peyton getting moved.
Also, wouldn't be surprised if Knix consider moving Knox if RJrB and Morris look good.  Though most of our vets are on short-term deals.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 15, 2019, 03:18:44 AM
I kind of want to see what a year or two of growing into his body and playing with Taj does to Knox’s game.

I’m inclined to see who the 10-12 most important guys are in terms of rotation through December and seeking offers on the rest. I think we could use another real center, but I wouldn’t be upset if we stood pat.

I just wonder if we are going to have schemes worthy of the talent the front office has assembled.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 15, 2019, 05:53:51 AM
I would have liked to have kept Kornet.
He was turning into a genuine long-armed paint defender.
And his 3-point shot was nearly there.  He was very good on wide open 3's, and bringing an opp Big out is useful.

I don't want to give up on Franc.  But Knix pretty much have.
They're just too embarrassed to cash him in for a 2nd rounder (which I wouldn't do either).

I like Knox.  And I like keeping homegrown talent.
(notice Ariza has had a nice career, never was expensive and is still in the League)

But we need to evaluate Knox.
See how he pairs with R&B Jr.   A big key going forward.
See if he can up his defense to semi-attentive.
Improve his shot selection.  Develop more consistency.
He's uber-young, has a good body, and nice talent.
But also a lot to work on.
Don't want to harm his confidence, but if I'm Fizzbottom, I tell Knox that we have a vet team this year, and his minutes are going to be related to his effort and execution on D.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 15, 2019, 08:23:17 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 15, 2019, 03:04:14 AM
Haven't the Knix tried and failed to get a 1st for Frankie already?
Datsun gets you maybe a 2nd.  Sell Low on those two, so I would hold off.

I don't see a trade soon.  I assume we'll go into the season with a lot of depth, let guys compete, figure out rotations and combinations, and how to get yute minutes.

Then after things shake out for a few months, a trade might go down after Dec 15 when we can move guys like Portis, Ellington, Peyton and Taj.  I think it's more likely that Franc is thrown in as a sweetener in a larger trade.  Say, Portis, Trier and Franc for Covington.
Or Morris and Franc.  But that might be too little for Minny.
But that's the kind of 2-for-1 or 3-for-1 we can make.  Giving another team depth and a few interesting players for a starter upgrade.

I could see one of Jr. Smith/Peyton getting moved.
Also, wouldn't be surprised if Knix consider moving Knox if RJrB and Morris look good.  Though most of our vets are on short-term deals.

Portis, Gibson and Payton are NOT getting dealt early on in the campaign. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 15, 2019, 08:24:53 AM
I think Knox is with us all year

Deals considered in summer if he has looked mediocre

Chance of mediocrity - 60-40 for

Chance of being dealt - 90-10 against

Likely at least a three year Knick
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 15, 2019, 01:30:43 PM
I'm not really expecting an in-season trade.
Just noting that with our depth we could help a contender, especially by sending out multiple players.  And one or more of our newcomers might not fit.
Taj is a seasoned vet who could help a team needing a bench Big.
Morris seems like a pretty good mercenary too.
A team that needs a backup Point, or starter in case of injury, might be interested in Peyton or Jr. Smith.

Knix have lots of assets so can be opportunistic.

Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 15, 2019, 08:23:17 AM
Portis, Gibson and Payton are NOT getting dealt early on in the campaign.

Not sure what you mean by "early on"
They can be moved after Dec 15.  Most in-season trades occur close to the trade deadline. 

Right now, I only see R&B, Mitch and Randle as definite keepers for this year.  To a lesser extent Knox.  After that, everyone seems reasonably available if a beneficial deal arises.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 15, 2019, 01:54:31 PM
Boogie back to one-legged status.

Reportedly tore an ACL while working out.

Weren't there some folks here who wanted the Knix to sign the injury-prone, overweight, malcontent? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 15, 2019, 04:07:53 PM
Francessa pushing Melo to Knicks
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 15, 2019, 04:24:47 PM
Francessa needs to put down the pipe.

I like Kornet and I hope he continues to progress. I’d play Portis and Taj ahead of him at both C and PF. He probably would have been a better signing than Bullock, but it’s not a major disappointment to me.

Lakers will be shopping for a backup center. Isn’t Gortat still available?

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 15, 2019, 04:33:48 PM
Fareid
Frye
Amir Johnson
Koufos
Monroe
Motejunas
Mozgov
Nene
Noah
J Smith
Udoh
T Zeller
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 15, 2019, 04:34:13 PM
 http://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/8/15/20806125/rookie-curve-ja-morant-jaren-jackson-jr-grizzlies (http://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/8/15/20806125/rookie-curve-ja-morant-jaren-jackson-jr-grizzlies)

Memphis might have to be a league pass team this year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 15, 2019, 06:51:41 PM
See, there's already a good landing spot for Taj.

Lakes would love to have him . . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 15, 2019, 07:22:26 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 15, 2019, 06:51:41 PM
See, there's already a good landing spot for Taj.

Lakes would love to have him . . .

Cause he’s good, which is why we’ll love having him.

I hope the Lakers grab Noah. JoNo & McGee is at least a very active defensive pivot rotation. It lets AD play the PF and adds to LA’s collection of weird players.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 15, 2019, 08:53:10 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 15, 2019, 03:04:14 AM
Haven't the Knix tried and failed to get a 1st for Frankie already?
Datsun gets you maybe a 2nd.  Sell Low on those two, so I would hold off.


Getting lower every day they stay buried.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 15, 2019, 09:48:06 PM
I think they should at least get a crack at unburying themselves against their roster competition before anyone packs anyone’s bags.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 15, 2019, 10:37:08 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 15, 2019, 09:48:06 PM
I think they should at least get a crack at unburying themselves against their roster competition before anyone packs anyone’s bags.

In an ideal world, Frank's selflessness would offset RJB's high usage rate.  I like that pair together as a backcourt.  Both guys can switch the man they are guarding and help guard 3 and some 4s on switches as well at least with their long arms and young legs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on August 15, 2019, 10:41:03 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 15, 2019, 01:54:31 PM
Boogie back to one-legged status.

Reportedly tore an ACL while working out.

Weren't there some folks here who wanted the Knix to sign the injury-prone, overweight, malcontent?

I loved watching Boogie play. He and AD had a good thing going.

Certainly would have loved to sign him pre - first ACL. More talent in that body then all 15 PFs and Scrubs we bought this summer put together.

Looks like he's cooked though. So it goes.


*** I think "malcontent" is code for the kind of scary big black folks Bo always hates
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 16, 2019, 03:40:58 AM
Scary?  The NBA is filled with wealthy pampered athletes.  Some fake tough guys, but I doubt there's anybody scary or threatening in the League.  It's probably not allowed.   
Look, it's not easy being suddenly wealthy and famous at a young age.
Some handle it better than others.   Maturity takes time.

Did Cousin Boogie have skills?  Sure.  Was he professional?  Not so much.
He was petulant and emotional and let things distract him on court.
He also was never in good shape, which likely contributed to his many injuries.  When I think of Boogie, I think of him arguing calls, not getting back on D or just hacking a driving opp, chucking up long J's.  (towards the end he started making 3's okay, but any time Boog was jacking a 3 made it easier on the D).

I kept saying SACto should trade him while his value was high.
At least they got Hield (who was struggling at the time) and a mid-1st rounder -- but they clearly waited too long.

It took Boogie 6 years before his team cracked 30 W's.  24, 22, 28, 28, 29, and then coming up big with 33 W's.  Not that they were a model franchise, but they probably could have won 25 games a year without Boogie.  In fact they did, the year before he joined them.  His only full year in NOPe, Boogie played a little more than half the games (48) and averaged 5 turnovers.

I don't care for no-D playing, high-maintenance guys.  A sloppy player who was always unlikely to reach his potential.  A career 20 & 10 guy who never won anything or led anything.  Head held him back.  Never got in good condition.  Injury and emotion prone.
His body fell apart before he could get his head together. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 16, 2019, 03:59:46 AM
It’s why I really like the additions of Marcus and Taj as well as Randle and Portis. These are all guys who take the game seriously and get better as they go. The young vets are bigger and more talented, but the old ones use their talents and canniness to play efficiently and produce excellent defense. It means never having to leave a kid out on a island to get physically pounded. We like Mitch and to a lesser extent Knox to pickup those roles, but we don’t have to rely on it to put a competitive five on the floor. Bobby Portis is going to be asked to knock some people around in a Vonleh like role.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 16, 2019, 05:16:18 AM
http://www.sny.tv/knicks/news/mitchell-robinson-allonzo-trier-talk-expectations-for-knicks-2019-20-season/310027514 (http://www.sny.tv/knicks/news/mitchell-robinson-allonzo-trier-talk-expectations-for-knicks-2019-20-season/310027514)

I think we got good kids.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 16, 2019, 08:30:40 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 15, 2019, 09:48:06 PM
I think they should at least get a crack at unburying themselves against their roster competition before anyone packs anyone’s bags.

It's called training camp

Time in games is EARNED
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 16, 2019, 08:34:36 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 16, 2019, 03:40:58 AM
Scary?  The NBA is filled with wealthy pampered athletes.  Some fake tough guys, but I doubt there's anybody scary or threatening in the League.  It's probably not allowed.   
Look, it's not easy being suddenly wealthy and famous at a young age.
Some handle it better than others.   Maturity takes time.

Did Cousin Boogie have skills?  Sure.  Was he professional?  Not so much.
He was petulant and emotional and let things distract him on court.
He also was never in good shape, which likely contributed to his many injuries.  When I think of Boogie, I think of him arguing calls, not getting back on D or just hacking a driving opp, chucking up long J's.  (towards the end he started making 3's okay, but any time Boog was jacking a 3 made it easier on the D).

I kept saying SACto should trade him while his value was high.
At least they got Hield (who was struggling at the time) and a mid-1st rounder -- but they clearly waited too long.

It took Boogie 6 years before his team cracked 30 W's.  24, 22, 28, 28, 29, and then coming up big with 33 W's.  Not that they were a model franchise, but they probably could have won 25 games a year without Boogie.  In fact they did, the year before he joined them.  His only full year in NOPe, Boogie played a little more than half the games (48) and averaged 5 turnovers.

I don't care for no-D playing, high-maintenance guys.  A sloppy player who was always unlikely to reach his potential.  A career 20 & 10 guy who never won anything or led anything.  Head held him back.  Never got in good condition.  Injury and emotion prone.
His body fell apart before he could get his head together.

Let's go to Coach Calipari for the rebuttal
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on August 16, 2019, 10:35:11 AM
or any of his coaches or teammates last 3 teams...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on August 16, 2019, 10:36:01 AM
Bo is just scared of "a type"
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 16, 2019, 12:00:10 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on August 14, 2019, 02:23:01 PM
Some updated figures for NBA

Just eight teams less than 20-1 to win it all

Take a guess

Clippers  +330
Lakers  +440
Bucks   +550
Sixers   +850
Rockets   +950
Jazz     +1200
Warriors   +1400
Nuggets   +1900


(Knicks)    +25000
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 16, 2019, 12:31:55 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on August 16, 2019, 10:36:01 AM
Bo is just scared of "a type"

Poor defenders
Overweight
Immature
Losers

Yep, those types scare me right away.

Possible that Boogie has grown up.
But he was a trainwreck (with good numbers!) on those awful Kings teams.
Unfortunately his body has broken down.
Unclear if he can/wants to return from this.
Though it's not easy to otherwise find a $2M annual salary.
Some folks bodies just aren't able to withstand the NBA pounding and grind.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 16, 2019, 01:16:13 PM
heh

Cousins will make much more than 2 mil down the line.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 16, 2019, 06:20:24 PM
He only signed for 1 year $3.5M this year.

Add another major injury and another year of age and rust.

He'll be 30 when he returns after missing a season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 16, 2019, 09:16:38 PM
I would bet LAL take him back
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on August 16, 2019, 09:48:09 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on August 16, 2019, 10:36:01 AM
BoZ is just scared of "a type"

only scared of an internet evil type (https://media.tenor.com/images/f45dc3deb54ae86b9276bd0aaa790972/tenor.gif)

Les, you my doggie, but need to learn to write names properly, and don't forget your Zs
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/XxcBHRn3NBeAvvwIWXzsHHeTk6py-jyWB0PA159m4qFLENOuX_AjM8nDA5y8vF1jXA0MNZL6Ph1ggVwalg7eVo_Ovl_G5v_5bOvKL2VQTEEMqBcLLGsB0hRfIn0mhHwbxsNlaEQTGJkWdcae1kE8ejqWGFUTrBZWr82zVio-0j8iYuTxgAusYy7u_jY3k5G6-Q1yi81eeDb7muibsLuFMVFFK-rMyav4nO-QtsaY9rnebRASVeJkcX0tiDNrik7izdXhC8j5gMaM4KXtcRKex7rO2-ocSLMqW7sDlJLwwQoalL-ht7FOsppQo3TiVVZSHqcUFG8NbKZLVZUiA7_fVWoT7wmiy2VOOJOXutp1l1QkEA_-kK96H31QOG3243zGcKM0nCa4dPlFX8KOuG1MDigWaNC7um4ym8AFDJABVXkc040W37ceQGd-uBViVLbKa20JVhHxltpZACv_5mrBsaE8n_k7GGR8nH49yALw9GNlJmimkDghLghtdcK5gpet7PqXkhQbDdRti8fKuJ8elcTcMpKu4I0HjrTXw_jRlVNKLGy7BPhVMMM8AjEF5ZmOJRQL45EggTGZt73h-vtSMEvSPn-ibMVEg0M1mYqjAS969pNl1iNiCbqvsEKu17MwAGcumU2d5lhDMes6iq37fJrXKR8oYnY=w1199-h600-no)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 17, 2019, 03:20:41 AM
We should definitely be trying to deal one of our PFs to the Lakers.  Even if its for a 2029 #1 pick.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 17, 2019, 03:28:15 AM
Portis is a center for us. Morris is a small forward. We have two power forwards on the roster in Randle and Taj. I think it’s a good idea to hang on to them, not that we have any choice till December anyway.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 17, 2019, 08:27:29 AM
Honestly, if Knicks make a nice push this year I would consider offering Cousins 3-15 or so.  UPSIDE is enormous

My guess is he will want ONE YEAR and a CONTENDER (LA fits)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 17, 2019, 11:28:15 AM
Gimps 'R' Us.

Some folks never learn ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on August 17, 2019, 01:10:12 PM
sure hope Kyle Lowry doesn't have another sucky playoffs
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 17, 2019, 08:30:48 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 17, 2019, 11:28:15 AM
Gimps 'R' Us.

Some folks never learn ...

At 3-15 Cousins would be a steal

But as I said the likely answer from Boogie is thanks but no thanks
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 18, 2019, 12:26:33 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 17, 2019, 08:30:48 PM
At 3-15 Cousins would be a steal

Sure, but why would we want Cousin Boogie to steal $15M?

Let me guess ... you were one of those who wanted to pay Durant $37M to not play this year.

McDyess, Amare, Noah...
(okay, $5M isn't much, but adds up combined with Noah's dead $6.5M's)
Not to mention all the aging ex-All-Stars who have passed through looking like Joe Louis v. Rocky Marciano -- Penny, Rose, McGrady, Francis, etc.

When does one learn?

I'm convinced Knix like to make flashy signings merely to attract the rubes who fill up the seats.   Without much regard to health, age, ability, winning.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 18, 2019, 03:45:15 AM
I’m hoping we give that a rest for a while. We’re still paying off Noah and we don’t know how the Bullock situation will play out, though it’s relatively minor in terms of money.

Could Boogie take a couple of years and undergo a McDyess like career transformation? Even in that case I’d rather be the Pistons than the idiot team that paid him to rehab (us), so it’s at least 3 years out.

The Portis, Randle, Morris, Taj haul is looking better and better.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on August 18, 2019, 10:24:38 AM
lol...umpteen posts about a 1/30 of the cap bet on stellar talent. stealing money, too funny.

Then expect umpteen posts about how a list of guys who wouldn't be difference makers on the Azerbaijan national team are the real bargains..

G'head now..
(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/shopping?q=tbn:ANd9GcT6RmKrIpeSO8T1brYaPmG09uS_uGqtD3yihOGrXtNSTf8Mr_ey22-4XSgE_1E0_8kWp6h4A1Xp&usqp=CAY)

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 18, 2019, 01:17:01 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 18, 2019, 12:26:33 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 17, 2019, 08:30:48 PM
At 3-15 Cousins would be a steal

Sure, but why would we want Cousin Boogie to steal $15M?

Let me guess ... you were one of those who wanted to pay Durant $37M to not play this year.



Maybe

Many ways to skin a cat

I dont mind the current way - and Boogie aint comin - so we can get off that now
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 18, 2019, 01:19:44 PM
Bo likes 28-54

Never has to be disappointed

heh
Title: Whaddayou like?
Post by: carlos123 on August 18, 2019, 09:32:56 PM
Quote from: chicocartero8 on August 18, 2019, 01:19:44 PM
BoZ likes 28-54

Never has to be disappointed

heh

Oh, he will be. I say 20-62, a three game improvement, no less!

What do you say?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 19, 2019, 08:34:28 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 18, 2019, 03:45:15 AM


The Portis, Randle, Morris, Taj haul is looking better and better.

It really is

But I think I took the under, regardless
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 19, 2019, 08:35:41 AM
Still bullish on RJ - but

player to watch for me this year is Darius Garland.  Trade down could have netted.......

and the guy can fucking PLAY!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 19, 2019, 04:25:59 PM
Kings could have had Fox-Barnes-Bagley all working out together under the direction of Pops and competing at a high level this Summer. 
Now down to just Barnes.
Seems like a missed opp.

Taj was on my list of vets to pick up.
Smart hardworking guy.  Aging.
Good mentor.  Also could be a good trade chip, as he cna benefit a contender more than us.

Hopefully Randle can be a rock and mesh with Mitch.
I'm hoping it doesn't lead to him jacking too many 3's.
And his defense is decentish.

Morris seems like a mercenary.  Here for one year.  But who knows.
Tough guy.  Versatile game.

Portis a reasonable gamble.  Has talent, but needs more consistency/focus.  Can he defend?  Does he have a position?
I doubt he'll punch Randle, more likely Knox or Mitch.

Be more exciting if Knix had the PG situation figured out.
And some two-way players wouldn't hurt.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 19, 2019, 06:09:24 PM
Frank goes 3-3 against Argentina for 8 pts, 3 dimes, and a steal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 19, 2019, 06:43:31 PM
Hopefully Randle can be a rock and mesh with Mitch Portis.

Fixed
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 19, 2019, 06:44:22 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 19, 2019, 06:09:24 PM
Frank goes 3-3 against Argentina for 8 pts, 3 dimes, and a steal.

And Hachimura had THIRTY FIVE last week

Should be a fun World Cup
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 19, 2019, 06:49:04 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 19, 2019, 06:43:31 PM
Hopefully Randle can be a rock and mesh with Mitch Portis.

That'd be great.
But either one of them gonna defend?

I'm hoping Mitch will be out long-term C -- our Gobert, Capela, TyC.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 19, 2019, 06:50:14 PM
Be more exciting if Knix had (drafted the) PG situation figured out.

Fixed
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 19, 2019, 06:51:20 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 19, 2019, 06:49:04 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 19, 2019, 06:43:31 PM
Hopefully Randle can be a rock and mesh with Mitch Portis.

That'd be great.
But either one of them gonna defend?

I'm hoping Mitch will be out long-term C -- our Gobert, Capela, TyC.

I'd think Camby....

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 19, 2019, 06:57:37 PM
re:  Gobert/Mitch

This is what I had been asking

Are we ready to give him 4-100?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 19, 2019, 07:58:22 PM
Don’t have to think about it. The question now is to what extent he can kick ass. This year at least to develop him and at least another year to make up our minds.

Behind power forward, point guard is our strongest position.

I expect Elfrid to give us our best look since 1st edition Felton and Smith Jr. to kill second units backing him up. We have deeper depth from Frank and Trier. I like our rookie wings.

Garland won’t be a plus player till his option year at the earliest.

White would have a hard time getting minutes in Westchester.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 19, 2019, 08:22:32 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 19, 2019, 06:57:37 PM
re:  Gobert/Mitch

This is what I had been asking

Are we ready to give him 4-100?

Keep forgetting - Knicks punked Robinson's agent into 4 years
Title: Great Moments in Recent History: NY Knicks edition
Post by: Kam on August 20, 2019, 10:11:12 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 19, 2019, 08:22:32 PM

Keep forgetting - Knicks punked Robinson's agent into 4 years


🥳👍🎯
Title: Grade F trade
Post by: Kam on August 21, 2019, 01:30:54 AM
https://dailyknicks.com/2019/08/19/new-york-knicks-looking-back-david-lee-sign-trade/ (https://dailyknicks.com/2019/08/19/new-york-knicks-looking-back-david-lee-sign-trade/)


We got nothing out of this trade. In fact it set us up to be bad for the rest of the decade. 

Now if we had NOT signed Amare it doesn't mean we needed to keep Lee. 

But using the LEE money on Amare set the franchise back for years.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 21, 2019, 04:35:22 AM
Yes. Indeed it did.

Post Knick Lee had much more to offer than post Knick STAT.

Question is, if you had another crack at it, and weren’t trying to take a crack at anyone else top tier and only looking to lower level guys, how would you spend the money put into STAT?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 21, 2019, 06:59:59 AM
http://backseatfan.com/2010/07/2010-nba-free-agents-and-signings/ (http://backseatfan.com/2010/07/2010-nba-free-agents-and-signings/)

In the scenario where I’m making offers 25-50% above signings for those players at that point in their careers, after our draft, I’m starting with a 30 yr old Mike Miller and 31 year old Jermaine O’Neal. They both have career average seasons then slide into smaller roles on stacked teams more or less maintaining their efficiency. Interior D & perimeter play would have given us a good support system for the numerous youngsters we’d managed to acquire.
Title: Re: Grade F trade
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 21, 2019, 08:39:22 AM
Quote from: Kam on August 21, 2019, 01:30:54 AM
https://dailyknicks.com/2019/08/19/new-york-knicks-looking-back-david-lee-sign-trade/ (https://dailyknicks.com/2019/08/19/new-york-knicks-looking-back-david-lee-sign-trade/)


We got nothing out of this trade. In fact it set us up to be bad for the rest of the decade. 

Now if we had NOT signed Amare it doesn't mean we needed to keep Lee. 

But using the LEE money on Amare set the franchise back for years.

You can feel this way if you like

It was an excellent move at the time - and Amare rocked NY big time that first season, leading Knicks where Lee never took them in his 5 years.

That you mention the 2 in the same breath is actually appalling
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on August 21, 2019, 10:43:34 AM
Lee: least impactful statman ever
Amareball: that was really really fun

(I was vehemently against the gut the team to try and sign LeBron strategy that cost us ZBo's great years among other things, but this Amare/Lee thing is just silly.)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 21, 2019, 12:37:54 PM
Well, I seem to be firmly in the kiid/Les camp.

David Lee was empty calories.
I thought it was abundantly clear not to pay him a big salary.

I even liked what we got back from GS, even if none of it panned out.
Azubuike was a terrific young 2-way SG -- unfortunately couldn't recover.
Randolph was a head case worth taking a flyer on.
Tauriaf a solid vet role player.

Amare helped lead us back to the playoffs.
Crafting a Big 3 of Melo-Amare-Tyc was a bit strange.
But worked that one year with Kidd.
Too bad Amare broke down.
But he gave us some spark and excitement.
I've got an Amare jersey I whip out now and then . . .
Title: Enjoy your straw man argument
Post by: Kam on August 21, 2019, 12:56:32 PM
Nobody was arguing Lee over Amare.

The point is that the whole LEE trade was dumb. 

Didn't need to be a sign and trade.  Just let him go.

And we didn't need to panic and sign a fragile Amare.

Had we employed the 1 and 1 strategy we did this summer we would've been poised to be players for the next wave of super free agents or to facilitate trades.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 21, 2019, 12:59:12 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 21, 2019, 12:37:54 PM


Amare helped lead us back to the playoffs.
Crafting a Big 3 of Melo-Amare-Tyc was a bit strange.
But worked that one year with Kidd.
Too bad Amare broke down.
But he gave us some spark and excitement.
I've got an Amare jersey I whip out now and then . . .

That 54 win season was empty calories.
Like a plate of General Tso
You're hungry again a half hour later.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 21, 2019, 01:35:19 PM
Knix have only had 3 winning seasons in the last 18 years.
All 3 of those were with Amare.
That 54 W season was the best thing Knickwise since JVG.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on August 21, 2019, 04:01:46 PM
So true, so sad
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on August 22, 2019, 12:13:45 AM
   
Jim Dolan’s Week Gets Worse as Subscribers Flee Knicks Channel

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/jim-dolan-week-gets-worse-145634285.html (https://finance.yahoo.com/news/jim-dolan-week-gets-worse-145634285.html)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 22, 2019, 01:42:49 AM
Quote
Consumers are dropping their cable-TV subscriptions in favor of cheaper online options, threatening the futures of cable-channel owners like MSG Networks that rely on collecting subscriber fees to grow their profits. Sports channels have become especially vulnerable in the era of cord-cutting, as TV distributors create cheaper packages that don’t include them.

I was at a big market just few days ago.  And one electronics shop offered something they called World Tv.  Connect the internet to a cable-like box, then to your TV.  And Voila! you have all sorts of Tv options.  You get cable from US, French, Germany, etc.  Amusingly he put it on US TV and flipped right by MSG, so I had him stop there for a minute.  This being China, who knows on its legality.  But for $130 for the box-system, or just $70 for a no-box software package that does the same, it's interesting.

I really don't like TV much, and pretty much only watch basketball, boxing and occasional tennis.  But being able to get BBC and CNN, plus MSG on my TV instead of just on my monitor is something to consider.  Since it's basically switching AM and PM, China time zone is particularly bad for watching US TV.  But Europe not too bad.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 22, 2019, 02:42:48 AM
I’m becoming a free condensed game guy for most non Knicks sports I used to sit down and watch. I’ve been that way since I started training and competing again.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 22, 2019, 09:57:45 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 21, 2019, 01:35:19 PM
Knix have only had 3 winning seasons in the last 18 years.
All 3 of those were with Amare.
That 54 W season was the best thing Knickwise since JVG.

That's saying little.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 22, 2019, 10:33:37 AM
You wouldnt agree Knicks in the Amare days were also a bit unlucky?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 22, 2019, 07:37:35 PM
To reach a better outcome with those components would have needed incredible luck. We were not that lucky, but the problems that occurred were pretty predictable, so it was more a factor of bad plan than bad luck.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 23, 2019, 04:08:42 AM
From ESPN:

10. Atlanta Hawks: 34-48
11. Chicago Bulls: 32-50
12. Washington Wizards: 28-54

13. New York Knicks: 26-56

14. Charlotte Hornets: 23-59
15. Cleveland Cavaliers: 22-60

Hawks, Bulls, Wiz.
Are those weak sisters really better than us?
I'll have to check on rosters.
They do have more continuity than Los Knickos.
Title: Noah's SNARK
Post by: chipstern on August 23, 2019, 01:32:51 PM
We Represent The LollyPop Guild

(https://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue41/images/chip_stern%20fantasy%20jpeg.jpg)

And Thus, BEG To DIFFER....With The Prevailing Snark

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D-WN6kmWwAUI-WS.jpg)
Title: Citizen Melo
Post by: chipstern on August 23, 2019, 01:48:02 PM
His skills, though still significant, have palpably diminished, plain and simple.

But he doesn't rule out a reunion with the Knicks. 

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRdbz65OEhUAHRn_TqtlYgSAan2ySisTgYK-3cNZnd8_QJme7G8rQ)

[Cough]

(http://content.sny.tv/assets/images/3/9/8/285478398/cuts/750x422/cut.jpg)

But his mindset is still of the player he WAS, Iso-Melo, maneuvering in the box, and that is no longer the modern game.

Even at a late stage in his career, he could hit the long three, though not with the consistency of some younger puppies.

Also, there is a perception, and I do not believe it is inaccurate, which holds that he is still a bell cow, and teams are understandably uneasy about giving a roster spot to someone who is more committed to his game than the team game. Which is not to say that Melo is as terminally selfish as many assert, or a congenital ball hog, but that his sense of PROPORTION as to his game and how he might fit in a system, as opposed to how a system might be divined to fit him, is the sticking point. In other words, Melo still has game, sure, but it is Melo's game--and does it have a place in the MODERN TEAM GAME?

I hated the fucking trade that he forced the Knicks at gunpoint to make, in lieu of signing him as a free agent that coming summer, as it gutted their roster, and basically denied him the talent support system he needed to advance in the playoffs. Still, I came to appreciate his passion and skill set and sheer talent. 

But as time marched on, everyone in the building, including my grandmother, who'd already been dead for many years, knew that in the final five minutes, the Knicks were playing Hero Ball, the rock was coming into the paint, and Melo was going to see triple teams as his team mates stood around holding their dicks.

Not winning hoops.

And while he did have that one 54 win season, it was with that douche nozzle Mike Woodson, who basically tossed everyone else under the bus, and gave Melo carte blanche. The team won, not because of Woodson or Melo, but because of Jason Kidd, who was the real coach/catalyst on the floor.

When Kidd departed, and there was no rudder, the ship ran aground, making way for the debacle that was the Phil Jackson Error, and the huge contract and no trade Melo demanded and got, which once again, hamstrung the team's financial ability to build a winning culture around him (that and Jackson's quixotic insistence on the Triangle). Yet another example of Melo first.

Somehow, after Jackson publicly trashed him, Scott Perry managed to get some real assets for him from OKC, and while Kanter and McDermott/Mudiay are gone, in lieu of Melo, their cap space was useful, and the second rounder turned into Mitchell Robinson. Mazel Tov. 

And why didn't things work out in OKC with such talented players as Paul George and Russell Westbrook? Because Melo over-estimated his own game, and felt he WASN'T BEING UTILIZED CORRECTLY.

And that is why the following season, Houston pulled the plug after what, ten games, and furthermore, that is why he is not presently on any NBA roster, nor likely to be on one again.

He is NOT BEING BLACKBALLED. That is bullshit. He is past his prime, looking for a big stage and unwilling to envision himself as a ROLE PLAYER.

Hey, after they suffered career crushing injuries, the likes of Ron Harper and Antonio McDyess sustained viable, positive NBA careers as role players, finding things they could do well, even though the sexiest aspects of their games were now a memory. Red Auerbach used to regularly rehabilitate fading talents, and find a winning role for them in spot minutes in the team game. 

Melo's MEMORY is that of the dominant player he was in 2012-2013, and 2013-2014.

In Dog Years and the NBA, five years is a long damn time, and Melo has sustained a belief that he is still a 30-35 minute a night, top tier rotation player. HE IS NOT. He is 35 years old, and an old dog unwilling to learn any new tricks. He has not been blackballed. Rather, Serial Blowhard Stephen A. notwithstanding, he has BLACKBALLED HIMSELF. He will not play in the NBA this season. "I'm Charles Foster Kane, Boss Geddes..."

(https://images.dailykos.com/images/276655/large/kane2.png?1469107917)

Pity, because he can still play, but he has been sidelined by his own hubris.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 23, 2019, 02:05:15 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 22, 2019, 10:33:37 AM
You wouldnt agree Knicks in the Amare days were also a bit unlucky?

Because he punched a fire hydrant and kept getting injured on an uninsurable deal?

Or because LeBron and Wade and Bosh?


I will accept the latter as a reason but not the former.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on August 23, 2019, 07:11:52 PM
Dwight Howard to Lakers. It never ends.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 23, 2019, 07:40:12 PM
???
Title: Ellington Speaks
Post by: chipstern on August 24, 2019, 03:08:48 PM
https://hoopshype.com/2019/08/23/knicks-nba-rumor-wayne-ellington-new-york-free-agency-interview-signing/ (https://hoopshype.com/2019/08/23/knicks-nba-rumor-wayne-ellington-new-york-free-agency-interview-signing/)

(http://www2.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/NCAA+Basketball+Tournament+Second+Round+Greensboro+C7Fv2maMRPyl.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 24, 2019, 08:07:08 PM
USA-Australia has some fun to it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Urethra_Franklin on August 25, 2019, 03:33:23 PM


https://www.amazon.com/Hot-Shot-Electric-Smokeless-Grill/dp/B07NTVRYZV/ref=gbps_tit_s-5_b5d1_0424f0a7?smid=AUE406SMM1DNQ&pf_rd_p=473a0caf-eecb-4c73-92a7-1e27f89fb5d1&pf_rd_s=slot-5&pf_rd_t=701&pf_rd_i=gb_main&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=Z7HH0YAA1YW4PA134GGC (https://www.amazon.com/Hot-Shot-Electric-Smokeless-Grill/dp/B07NTVRYZV/ref=gbps_tit_s-5_b5d1_0424f0a7?smid=AUE406SMM1DNQ&pf_rd_p=473a0caf-eecb-4c73-92a7-1e27f89fb5d1&pf_rd_s=slot-5&pf_rd_t=701&pf_rd_i=gb_main&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=Z7HH0YAA1YW4PA134GGC)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 25, 2019, 08:39:14 PM
Frank with 12-2-2 in points-assists-steals in a nice win over Argentina.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 26, 2019, 08:27:39 PM
The 2 assists is promising

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 26, 2019, 08:28:10 PM
Kuzma out for USA

Celtics vs Serbs!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 27, 2019, 08:16:18 PM
Solid citizen, no-distraction Boogie in the news:
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27477469/report-d-cousins-ex-gf-seeks-restraining-order
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on August 27, 2019, 08:23:50 PM
I've always thought that no team is better because of Cousins' presence. It appears that marriage is the same.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 27, 2019, 08:34:11 PM
Lin signs with Beijing, Marbury's old team.
Apparently didn't get an NBA offer.
Has had a lot of trouble staying healthy.
China fans will enjoy watching him if he can stay on the court.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 28, 2019, 09:30:47 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 27, 2019, 08:34:11 PM
Lin signs with Beijing, Marbury's old team.
Apparently didn't get an NBA offer.
Has had a lot of trouble staying healthy getting a chance to play, given so many "athletes" in the league.
China fans will enjoy watching him if he can stay on the court.

Fixed.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 28, 2019, 09:34:00 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 27, 2019, 08:16:18 PM
Solid citizen, no-distraction Boogie in the news:
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27477469/report-d-cousins-ex-gf-seeks-restraining-order

One of these days we will have law enforcement ponder, "well, is she being a TOTAL BITCH?" - and tying that in with the press release.

I mean - really - not allowing him to have his son at his wedding?
Title: Ommmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Post by: chipstern on August 28, 2019, 04:10:48 PM
(https://dv2oc5tyj18yr.cloudfront.net/metrofocus/files/2011/10/knicks.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 28, 2019, 04:26:47 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 28, 2019, 09:30:47 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 27, 2019, 08:34:11 PM
Lin signs with Beijing, Marbury's old team.
Apparently didn't get an NBA offer.
Has had a lot of trouble staying healthy getting a chance to play, given so many "athletes" in the league.
China fans will enjoy watching him if he can stay on the court.

Fixed.

It’s good to be in a league where you can be considered an athlete. He’ll probably play there till he’s 40.

The Knicks should be stocking the G-league squad with potential defensive centers. It’s the spot we’re most susceptible to injury.
Title: Who Knows
Post by: chipstern on August 28, 2019, 04:41:38 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 28, 2019, 04:26:47 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 28, 2019, 09:30:47 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 27, 2019, 08:34:11 PM
Lin signs with Beijing, Marbury's old team.
Apparently didn't get an NBA offer.
Has had a lot of trouble staying healthy getting a chance to play, given so many "athletes" in the league.
China fans will enjoy watching him if he can stay on the court.

Fixed.

It’s good to be in a league where you can be considered an athlete. He’ll probably play there till he’s 40.

The Knicks should be stocking the G-league squad with potential defensive centers. It’s the spot we’re most susceptible to injury.

Well, Portis, Randle, Gibson can be called upon in the post-POSTUP Epoch.  Of all the "Projects" we bailed on (and Randle surely obviates the need to re-up Vonleh, while Iggy has already offered a tantalizing suggestion of what Perry thought SubPar Mario might evolve into, and my affection for Mudiay notwithstanding), I found the release of Kornet most curious.  Portis fills that niche with more experience, physicality and all-around skillset (including the Trey), but I thought Luke had made significant strides.

Anyway.

Not to read too much into this...

Because we took a pass on Fall, and didn't pursue another #2 pick to make a run at Bol, but there was a picture a friend of mine posted on FACEBOOK, which showed a group photo for a lunchtime "getting to know you" hang at SYLVIA's in Harlem with Coach Fizdale. 

I recognized Randle, Portis, Smith, RJ, Iggy, Knox, Ellington among others.

Among those others, looming above them all in the back row?

HASHEEM THABEET

Meaning?

Anything?

Westchester?

Who knows. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on August 28, 2019, 05:48:26 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 28, 2019, 09:34:00 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 27, 2019, 08:16:18 PM
Solid citizen, no-distraction Boogie in the news:
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27477469/report-d-cousins-ex-gf-seeks-restraining-order

One of these days we will have law enforcement ponder, "well, is she being a TOTAL BITCH?" - and tying that in with the press release.

I mean - really - not allowing him to have his son at his wedding?

Exactly, lol, those dumb motherfuckers didn't even read what happened.

*** Bo thought he found his ah ha moment. Nope, still just another bigblackman he wants to tar & feather. The song remains the same for bigots across the world.
Title: Baaad doggie
Post by: carlos123 on August 28, 2019, 10:22:26 PM
Quote from: lesterdoggie on August 28, 2019, 05:48:26 PM
Quote from: chicocartero8 on August 28, 2019, 09:34:00 AM
Quote from: boZ on August 27, 2019, 08:16:18 PM
Solid citizen, no-distraction Boogie in the news:
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27477469/report-d-cousins-ex-gf-seeks-restraining-order

One of these days we will have law enforcement ponder, "well, is she being a TOTAL BITCH?" - and tying that in with the press release.

I mean - really - not allowing him to have his son at his wedding?

Exactly, lol, those dumb motherfuckers didn't even read what happened.

*** Bo thought he found his ah ha moment. Nope, still just another bigblackman he wants to tar & feather. The song remains the same for bigots across the world.

(https://media.tenor.com/images/f45dc3deb54ae86b9276bd0aaa790972/tenor.gif)
LES BAAAAD DOGGIE

I think you went a step too far. I mean, BoZ can be sanctimonious and self-important, but he ain't no bigot.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 29, 2019, 02:29:52 AM
So Les is aligned with Kiid -- it's okay to threaten someone's life if you think the other person (a female) is acting very bitchy.  Kiid thinks that should be a legal exception.  Priceless.

Her allegations: Boogie previously choked her, and just threatened to kill her (in a specific way) over a family argument.  So she asked for a restraining order to stay safe from potential violence. 

Specifically, she alleges Cousins said: "I'm Gonna Make Sure I Put A Bullet Through Your Fucking Head"  adding even if he didn't have to get his hands dirty doing it. 
https://deadspin.com/demarcus-cousinss-ex-girlfriend-says-he-told-her-im-go-1837623964

Not surprisingly, Boogie not likely an aggrieved innocent here.  They have a difficult, contentious history. 
Quote
West and Cousins have an extensive legal history dating back to 2013, which involved establishing paternity, child support, and visitation rights.
It seems their relationship has been rocky at best for a long time, with Boogie seemingly not admitting the kid was his and then haggling/delaying child support. 

The more you look into the relationship and this incident the uglier and more sordid it is. 
Quote
West previously sought court protection from Cousins on account of his alleged verbal and physical abuse. (https://www.si.com/nba/2019/08/27/demarcus-cousins-allegations-threat-ex-girlfriend-lakers-nba)


Trouble tends to follow some, due to the company they keep and decisions they make.  Hopefully getting married and closing in on 30 will aid Cousin Boogie's maturity.  Then again, some never get it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 29, 2019, 08:45:04 AM
Her allegations: Boogie previously choked her, and just threatened to kill her (in a specific way) over a family argument.  So she asked for a restraining order to stay safe from potential violence. 


This is fine.  The system at work.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 29, 2019, 08:49:35 AM
Just sorry I dont have a KINJA account.  They seem quite intelligent over at Deadspin

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 29, 2019, 11:49:12 AM
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2851466-nba-rumors-big3-mvp-joe-johnson-to-work-out-for-76ers-clippers-bucks-nuggets?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_campaign=editorial&utm_medium=referral
Title: Une compte KINJA
Post by: carlos123 on August 29, 2019, 01:57:48 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 29, 2019, 08:49:35 AM
Just sorry I dont have a KINJA account.  They seem quite intelligent over at Deadspin

heh

Qu’est ce que c’est?

Toi, tu es très exotique.

Heh?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 29, 2019, 02:20:46 PM
Hasheem Thabeet’s agent can read a roster. I hope he looks good. All the usual summer sweet nothings have been said about him. It’s good for our guys to get work against absurd largeness. There still is some of that in the league.

Knox and Barrett are getting a taste of Melo. I hope some footage gets out of these runs.
Title: Kissing Cousins
Post by: chipstern on August 29, 2019, 04:04:12 PM
An arrest warrant has been issued for Los Angeles Lakers center DeMarcus Cousins on a misdemeanor domestic violence charge in Mobile, Alabama. – via ESPN
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 29, 2019, 04:21:39 PM
Hey - thanks for checkin in...
Title: Out Of Town Tryouts [Blasts From The Past]
Post by: chipstern on August 30, 2019, 01:03:17 AM
Ian Begley: Carmelo Anthony wasn’t the only former Knick participating in informal 5-on-5 scrimmages with the team on Thursday. Veteran free agent Lance Thomas also played in the games, per a source.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 30, 2019, 03:09:22 AM
Melo working out in NY
+
Durant and Kyrie wanting Melo
+
Wil out for 25 games for substance ingestion
Melo to BKY

Makes sense.
Melo from the area.
Helps sell tickets.
Nets a 3rd tier contender this year can afford to gamble.
Only need Melo for 30 games until Wil is back.
Can re-evaluate then.

Seems like an easy call.
Melo will be on good behavior since it could be his last NBA chance.
And Nets can let Melo be the bench scorer.
Help shore up a weak bench.

I'd tune into some Net games to see Melo & Kyrie and Lavert and whether it will be a disaster.  Could also pan out to a low playoff seed.  Interesting if nothing else.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 30, 2019, 05:35:55 AM
cbsports picked an X-factor player for every team (https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/biggest-x-factor-on-every-nba-team-russell-westbrook-must-mesh-with-rockets-mvp-giannis-has-room-to-improve/)

They lazily went with RJB for NYK.
I think he's key for the franchise future, but not for next season.

I'd tab Jr. Smith as my Knick x-factor.
If he can put together a solid season, scoring, setting up and not stinking too much on D, this group of new Knicks could cohere.
Without good PG play, there's going to be a lot of players trying to assert themselves and not enough teamwork.

My 2nd pick would probably be Mitch.  Because he can anchor a defense and disrupt other teams, if he can stay out of foul trouble and keep his focus.

After that I might go with Knox and Barrett.
But Portis is another good candidate.  A guy who could solidify the bench if he's locked in.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 30, 2019, 07:55:59 AM
Anthony could easily start for the NETS
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 30, 2019, 10:09:42 AM
Kyrie's the starting matador.
Don't need two.
Title: X-Factors
Post by: chipstern on August 30, 2019, 01:00:28 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 30, 2019, 05:35:55 AM
cbsports picked an X-factor player for every team (https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/biggest-x-factor-on-every-nba-team-russell-westbrook-must-mesh-with-rockets-mvp-giannis-has-room-to-improve/)

They lazily went with RJB for NYK.
I think he's key for the franchise future, but not for next season.

I'd tab Jr. Smith as my Knick x-factor.
If he can put together a solid season, scoring, setting up and not stinking too much on D, this group of new Knicks could cohere.
Without good PG play, there's going to be a lot of players trying to assert themselves and not enough teamwork.

My 2nd pick would probably be Mitch.  Because he can anchor a defense and disrupt other teams, if he can stay out of foul trouble and keep his focus.

After that I might go with Knox and Barrett.
But Portis is another good candidate.  A guy who could solidify the bench if he's locked in.

I believe Portis is going to be totally psyched...when KP went packing, there went our stretch 4/5-long range shooter. 

"Will a Mister Portis please pick up the hospitality phone." 

X-Factor?

Julius Randle.  Man has a varied skill set, his game is still maturing, and is built like a Soviet T-34 tank.  Potential is there to be a 20-10-5 man, night in and night out. 

Like Portis, if Randle can continue to improve his 3-point shooting, and [AND, you listening Coach Fizdale] if Bobby and Julius amp up their defense, we could have a pretty formidable rotation at the 4/5 with Mitchell Robinson and Taj Gibson. 

Knox and Barrett and Smith will all get their minutes, but will have to duke it out with Morris and Payton for floor time.  GOOD. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 30, 2019, 08:38:12 PM
I think one of Dennis or Elfrid breaks out. SG is the x-factor position, as it has the least established players. Potential and talent are there, but it’s wide open between RJ, Dot, Trier, and Frank. I hope there is a tandem that emerges that provides 48 minutes of positive SG play.

On a side note, I half agree with this read

http://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/8/30/20839663/are-we-sure-new-york-knicks-plan (http://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/8/30/20839663/are-we-sure-new-york-knicks-plan)
Title: Juggling With Some BBQ
Post by: chipstern on August 30, 2019, 09:55:46 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 30, 2019, 08:38:12 PM
I think one of Dennis or Elfrid breaks out. SG is the x-factor position, as it has the least established players. Potential and talent are there, but it’s wide open between RJ, Dot, Trier, and Frank. I hope there is a tandem that emerges that provides 48 minutes of positive SG play.

On a side note, I half agree with this read

http://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/8/30/20839663/are-we-sure-new-york-knicks-plan (http://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/8/30/20839663/are-we-sure-new-york-knicks-plan)

Wayne Ellington? 

Given our surfeit of wings, would expect to see a fair amount of small ball/3-guard alignments. 

And as for our "plan" it would seem that bringing on vets such as Ellington, Bullock, Morris and Gibson is kind of like how Giants are determined to bring along Daniel Jones in a slow, purposeful manner behind Eli, even though the kid had an Un-GOLDY preseason. 

Very different kind of rotations and line-ups and developmental structures from pro football to hoops, but Knicks are trying to reinvent themselves, it would seem, from the bottom up. 

Last year's youth development? 

Youth GONE: Kornet, Vonleh, Herzonja, Mudiay.

YOUTH Remaining: Robinson, Knox, Brazdeikis, Barrett, Dotson, Trier, Ntilikina, Smith

VETS: Portis, Randle, Gibson, Morris, Bullock, Ellington, Payton

If not before Opening Night, or the December date when Free Agents can be traded, or sometime before the February Trade Deadline, you've got to figure some sort of transactions will be in plan, depending on our record, and the shopping lists of other teams. 

How Fizdale arrives at rotations, and showcases everyone, either for the present or the future, will certainly be a curious juggling trick. 

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/49/2d/92/492d92ff5731aa7fe43b893dc6915663.jpg)

Brings the ED SULLIVAN SHOW to mind. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 31, 2019, 01:59:47 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 28, 2019, 09:30:47 AM

Quote from: bodiddley on August 27, 2019, 08:34:11 PM

Lin signs with Beijing, Marbury's old team.
Apparently didn't get an NBA offer.
Has had a lot of trouble staying healthy getting a chance to play, given so many "athletes" in the league.
China fans will enjoy watching him if he can stay on the court.

Fixed.

Quote
a series of hamstring issues limited Lin to 36 games in his first year with the Nets, and on opening night of the 2017-18 season, he ruptured his left patellar tendon, knocking him out for the rest of the season. Lin wouldn’t play in Brooklyn again, and spent last season working to recover the step he’d lost—the one he needed to blow by defenders to get into the paint and hold up on defense.

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/8/27/20835588/jeremy-lin-beijing-ducks

I still recall when some we're going to turn in their Jr,. Knick badges because the Knix didn't match HOU's big offer for Lin.
He bounced around a lot, was a solid enough backup PG, and has had injury issues.

I always thought Lin & DRose cut crouched too low in the lane which puts a huge strain on knees.

Some almost quit the Knix when Mozguy was traded too.  Don't think he's in the league anymore.

yet everyone was fine when the Knix ditched KZ . . .
Title: Re: KKK [Free Agents, Summer 2019]
Post by: bodiddley on August 31, 2019, 03:05:50 AM
Quote from: chipstern on December 11, 2018, 10:49:13 AM
Be interesting to see if any of the free agents we are interested in are actually on the move. 

Kawhi, Kevin, Kemba. 

I think they all stay put. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 31, 2019, 01:29:11 PM
We ditched Mozzy and others. We allowed KZ to be liberated. Had we not traded Mozzy he would have played for us. It’s not clear that this was what was going to happen with KZ. 
Title: Re: KKK [Free Agents, Summer 2019]
Post by: carlos123 on August 31, 2019, 10:51:44 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 31, 2019, 05:25:34 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 31, 2019, 03:05:50 AM
Quote from: chipstern on December 11, 2018, 10:49:13 AM
Be interesting to see if any of the free agents we are interested in are actually on the move. 

Kawhi, Kevin, Kemba. 

I think they all stay put. 

Proving? 


Proving that BoZ knows it all.

Who was the one proclaiming that Kemba would never leave Charlotte?
Title: Oops 😬
Post by: carlos123 on September 01, 2019, 02:32:04 AM
Quote from: chipstern on August 31, 2019, 11:12:28 PM
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRx35S-5nMuw600dua1E-szBKyFwDHu1W6isiFzqolJggcxx7W7Sg)

I thought BoZ was the one proclaiming the Kemba/Charlotte connection.
Guess it was you.
Oops 🙊 😬
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 01, 2019, 02:46:31 AM
Pretty certain I never said Kemba wouldn't leave CHA.
A crappy team going nowhere.  Ready to suck in his prime.
I did doubt CHA would give Kemba the full max and wondered if they'd pony up enough for him to stay.  CHA has been poorly run for quite some time.  Hell, they were lucky that Kemba developed into an all-star level player.

I doubted any big names would come to NYK.  Though there was a lot of Durant chatter, and he seemed to be a NY option.  OR NY seemed to be a Durant option.  Maybe if we still had KZ . . .

I didn't want KD at all since he is an expensive aging gimp.  Still surprised he could command a max deal while missing Y1.  But the general word was that some teams would offer the max.  Fortunately Dolan wasn't up for that.

I just accidentally ran across Chip's prediction while searching for something else.  Chip is always Mr. Status Quo.  Hold on to your players.  Trades won't/shouldn't happen.  We like our 20 win roster, etc.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 01, 2019, 03:47:48 AM
CHA Lotto drafting:

2011    9 Kemba Walker
2011    7 Biyombo (traded #19 pick Tobias Harris+ to move up)
2012    2 Kidd-Gilchrist
2013    4 Cody Zeller
2014    9 Noah Vonleh
2015    9 Tank Kaminsky
2017   11 Malik Monk
2018   11 Shai Gorgeous-Alexander-Ocasio
(traded him for +#12 Miles Bridges and 2nd rounders)
2019   12 PJ Washington


Kemba worked out well.  Jimmer was taken right after him.
Klay and Kawhi were still on board.

Biyombo never developed.

A #2 & #4 in weak drafts resulted in MKG and Zeller.  Ouch.
That's what killed them.

MKG <sigh>.  Looked like he had the tools.  Terrific body and hard-working,  And before the Everyone-Shoots-3's revolution got fully underway.  A ridiculously weak draft.  Beal went #3; Lillard #6; Barnes #7.  After that the 2nd round produced Dray Green, Middleton, and was better than 10-30 of the first round.

Zeller in 2014.  Maybe the worst Top 10 ever in a draft.
Redraft: #15 Giannis ; #27 Gobert; #10 McCollum; #2 Oladipo; #12 Steven Adams; #3 Otto Porter

Later when they are picking #9 -12 their misses, or mere role players, are more understandable.

But Frank was a #9 pick with Winslow, Myles Turner, Devin Booker, K Oubre all picked in the next 6.
Donovan Mitchell went two picks after Monk, with OG, Kuz and John Collins still out there.

Interestingly, two of their draft day trades failed.
They traded up for #7 Biyombo, giving up #19 Tobias Harris who turned out to be the better player.  (Stephen Jaz and Maggette were int he trade as well).

And they traded down one slot moving Shai G-A for Miles Bridges, pocketing 2nd rounders.  They sure could use a cheap studly PG like SGA now.  Wouldn't have had to overpay Rozier.  Bridges looks solid, but maybe a starter/bench player.

Trading up and down in drafts doesn't always pan out.
CHA blew it twice.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 03, 2019, 08:49:12 PM
http://dailyknicks.com/2019/09/03/new-york-knicks-frank-ntilikina-delivers-solid-performance-france-win/ (http://dailyknicks.com/2019/09/03/new-york-knicks-frank-ntilikina-delivers-solid-performance-france-win/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 03, 2019, 08:55:26 PM
Whats a starter/bench player?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 03, 2019, 08:58:00 PM
"I did doubt CHA would max Kemba...."

"I think CHA has been poorly run..."

So in your opinion CHA should have maxed him?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 04, 2019, 02:00:12 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 03, 2019, 08:55:26 PM
Whats a starter/bench player?

A marginal starter.  A guy who might start on a weak team or come off the bench.  Not a definite starter.  Maybe toggle back and forth depending on roster.
For Bridges, I said maybe as I haven't seen him too much and he has room for growth.

But that's the problem.  CHA hasn't been able to draft any legit starters since Kemba.  MKG almost.  Biyombo, no.  Zeller, sorta.  Monk, trying.
No idea who PJ Washington is ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 04, 2019, 02:15:07 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 03, 2019, 08:58:00 PM
"I did doubt CHA would max Kemba...."
"I think CHA has been poorly run..."
So in your opinion CHA should have maxed him?

I think the Bobs put themselves in a bad position.  Maxing Kemba would have made it hard for them to do much else, and they need a lot of help.  So a max Kemba and a crummy team is pretty useless.   And they are historically a cheap team.  So if I was Jordan, I would have offered Kemba a pretty good deal, less than the max and hoped he stayed.

Flipping KW for Rozier is a real roll of the dice.  Rozier has talent, but is small, inconsistent, and moody.  Also didn't perform well last year and is now overpaid.  The playoff experience is a +.  The career 38% FG is not.
Kind of reminds me of Dennis Shroder.

A shame they didn't hold on to Shai G-A, who could have understudied with Kemba and been ready to take over this year.  Would much rather a cheap young PG ($4M) than Rozier ($20M).  Shai has size and some nice skills.  Looked nice for LAC.  OKC will be what he would have had in CHA last year (unless/until OKC moves Chris Paul).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 04, 2019, 02:52:34 AM
This article  (https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2849414-you-dont-know-terrys-scary)quotes Rozier as saying he got a Knick offer (reportedly 1 year) and was planning on coming to NYC, then the offer got topped by PHX.  And finally CHA made the biggest offer.

Wonder how big the Knick offer was.
Obviously we wouldn't have signed Elfrid if Rozier joined.
And probably his contract would have precluded signing Ellington (or Taj).
Assuming it was around $16M for one year for Rozier (what Elfrid and Ellington make together).

Hmmm.  I would have been up for Rozier 1/$16M and no Elfrid and no Ellington.  Rozier pretty similar to Jr. Smith, but further along.  And we have Trier, Dot at SG.  Rozier and Randle woulda been interesting together.  Rozier not the best choice to help Barrett and Knox develop, but it could have been fun/interesting.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 04, 2019, 07:55:51 AM
Just read a CHA writer stating that Bridges will start at PF over Marv Williams.  Maybe.  Might be a good year to go youth.  And if Bridges doesn't fall down, then try to trade Marv for some young asset.  Marv could help a playoff team.  Savvy vet, can do a little of everything, including pop some open 3's.

Might make more sense to start Marv to keep his value and steady a young roster, and then trade him midway through the season for a pick or young player, and promote Bridges then.

I'm assuming Batum starts at SG, since Rozier and Monk sound like a mess.   Rather just give them some spot minutes to see how they pair.

PJ Washington was the #12 pick.  Didn't play in Summer due to foot soreness.  PF.  Reportedly can play inside and out.  CHA never tires of drafting Bigs
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 04, 2019, 10:48:55 AM
One more year for Kidd-Gilchrist

TWO for Zeller, who has been fine.

Interesting team this year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 04, 2019, 10:56:02 AM
Yeah, its between MKG and Marvin to start.  Bridges takes the other (3/4)

Zeller
Rozier
Batum

Biyombo off the pine, with MKG/Marv, Monk, Devonte Graham, Hernangomez and the aforementioned P J Washington, who can play.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 04, 2019, 10:58:00 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 04, 2019, 02:52:34 AM
This article  (https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2849414-you-dont-know-terrys-scary)quotes Rozier as saying he got a Knick offer (reportedly 1 year) and was planning on coming to NYC, then the offer got topped by PHX.  And finally CHA made the biggest offer.

Wonder how big the Knick offer was.
Obviously we wouldn't have signed Elfrid if Rozier joined.
And probably his contract would have precluded signing Ellington (or Taj).
Assuming it was around $16M for one year for Rozier (what Elfrid and Ellington make together).

Hmmm.  I would have been up for Rozier 1/$16M and no Elfrid and no Ellington.  Rozier pretty similar to Jr. Smith, but further along.  And we have Trier, Dot at SG.  Rozier and Randle woulda been interesting together.  Rozier not the best choice to help Barrett and Knox develop, but it could have been fun/interesting.

Typical NY - lose a player because you are trying to set up cap space for future.

One year?  Rozier was taking one year?  Please.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 04, 2019, 11:01:03 AM
Bo, your betting NO on Bridges is once again noted.

Careful.......
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 04, 2019, 12:36:08 PM
Charlotte loves AP All Americans

Starting with Kemba (1st team 2010-11)

Kidd-Gilchrist (3rd team '11-'12)

C Zeller (2nd team '12-'13)

Kaminsky (1st team '14-'15)

Monk (2nd team '16-'17)

Bridges (2nd team '17-'18) and D Graham (1st team '17-'18)

Washington (3rd team '18-'19)

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 04, 2019, 01:24:08 PM
10000 points
5000 rebounds
3000 assists
800 steals
500 blocks

- reachable for Batum in this contract (by age 32)

14.9 career PER (top 17.3, low 11.9 - last year)

Off a 45/39/87 shooting year
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 04, 2019, 03:27:14 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 04, 2019, 10:58:00 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 04, 2019, 02:52:34 AM
This article  (https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2849414-you-dont-know-terrys-scary)quotes Rozier as saying he got a Knick offer (reportedly 1 year) and was planning on coming to NYC, then the offer got topped by PHX.  And finally CHA made the biggest offer.

Wonder how big the Knick offer was.
Obviously we wouldn't have signed Elfrid if Rozier joined.
And probably his contract would have precluded signing Ellington (or Taj).
Assuming it was around $16M for one year for Rozier (what Elfrid and Ellington make together).

Hmmm.  I would have been up for Rozier 1/$16M and no Elfrid and no Ellington.  Rozier pretty similar to Jr. Smith, but further along.  And we have Trier, Dot at SG.  Rozier and Randle woulda been interesting together.  Rozier not the best choice to help Barrett and Knox develop, but it could have been fun/interesting.

Typical NY - lose a player because you are trying to set up cap space for future.

One year?  Rozier was taking one year?  Please.

Bullet dodged.  Rozier is nice but not 3yrs/58m nice.  Can't build a team paying scary terry that much of your cap.  Will he ever make an All-Star or All-NBA?  What's his best skill?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 04, 2019, 03:49:24 PM
Our entire PG rotation of Elfrid, Dennis, and Frank is cheaper, this year and next, than Rozier. There’s a decent chance more than one of them is better than Rozier on an individual level over that span. Rozier might be this summer’s equivalent of THJ’s inflated deal just now ending in Dallas.

Of the lower echelon teams in the East, Charlotte seems most primed to take an immediate step backwards.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 04, 2019, 04:18:40 PM
Rozier plays both ends - hasnt had a team to run since college.

Payton could be better than TR - but
knicks will play it stupid and have him share the role even if he is.

DSJ?  I see Rozier as clearly better.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 04, 2019, 04:28:47 PM
Rozier shoots .390 fg%, with an efg of .480. He can shoot 3’s but can’t really finish. On a good day he may be a wash offensively. He does a good job, minus his bricks, of taking care of the ball.

Will expanded minutes and responsibly for Rozier raise his efficiency, or will the extra demands erode his ball protection making him unfit for a lead guard role?

He does have an offensive profile like an aging Jose Calderon so far in his young career...

Cleveland is as bad or worse than Charlotte, though Cleveland started from a worse spot. Those two set the new bottom for the East.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 04, 2019, 07:07:36 PM
I dont think Cha deals Bridges for Shae right now.

Maybe Huerter - or in time....  Michael Porter

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 04, 2019, 07:10:09 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 04, 2019, 04:28:47 PM
Rozier shoots .390 fg%, with an efg of .480. He can shoot 3’s but can’t really finish. On a good day he may be a wash offensively. He does a good job, minus his bricks, of taking care of the ball.

Will expanded minutes and responsibly for Rozier raise his efficiency, or will the extra demands erode his ball protection making him unfit for a lead guard role?

He does have an offensive profile like an aging Jose Calderon so far in his young career...

Cleveland is as bad or worse than Charlotte, though Cleveland started from a worse spot. Those two set the new bottom for the East.

hmmmm

says VEGAS anyway

We'll see.  Certainly true that Knicks arent far from that.

Makes sense that there would be a poor bottom THREE of you have TWELVE vying for playoff slots.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 04, 2019, 07:11:17 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 04, 2019, 04:28:47 PM
Rozier shoots .390 fg%, with an efg of .480.

Thanks.  I had no access to those numbers.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 04, 2019, 07:24:17 PM
To think the things you do, you have to be more than a little obtuse.

I’m ready to remind you of the obvious things you tend to miss.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 04, 2019, 07:54:27 PM
Do you expect the number to rise?



Yeah - me, too.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 04, 2019, 08:38:45 PM
Gina Tucker watched as the Brooklyn Nets hosted Boston last season. She noticed how downtrodden her son looked. Invisible signs for others that were prominent signals of distress for a mother. She had seen Rozier emote frustration on the court before. But this was something different. He struggled from the field that night, missing seven of his eight shots as Brooklyn rallied for a blowout win. "Like, he's losing it," she recalled. "I saw pain, frustration, disappointment. I just felt like that moment in itself, he was done."

She sent him a text after the game.

"I don't think I smiled, cracked a joke that day," Rozier said. "And that's not me. I'm always smiling. I'm always enjoying the time and being in a moment. But I was just out of it in general, dealing with a lot. I feel like that was one of my breaking points. I had a couple of them during the season."

Boston entered last season with expectations to step into the vacuum created by LeBron James' departure to the Western Conference. The young Celtics had reached the Eastern Conference Finals the previous two seasons and had done so without a lot of superstar power.


Rozier was one of the reasons why.

Before the 2018 playoffs, Celtics coach Brad Stevens visited Rozier as he lofted shots late one night. Stevens, Rozier said, told him that he could play just as good as anyone out there and to take advantage of the opportunity

I'm ready for it, Rozier thought. I got to roll with the punches. If I fail, I know I did my best trying, but failing is not an option. Stay levelheaded, stay in the moment.

He averaged 16.5 points, 5.3 rebounds and 5.7 assists per game in the postseason and brought Boston to within one game of the NBA Finals.

"Didn't try to get too high, then let the stuff get to me," Rozier said. "Didn't try to get too low, when things weren't going my way. Just try to stay right there in the moment, and it worked out for me. Then a lot of people that wasn't on the Terry Rozier train, talking all that B.S., hop on. That's just how I go."

But the roster last season never coalesced. Players like Rozier were asked to adjust to supporting roles behind now-healthy stars Kyrie Irving and Gordon Hayward, and once an NBA player finds lightning, it's hard for him to be asked to bottle it back up. The uncertainty of Irving's looming free agency also shadowed the franchise.

Boston's soaring hopes came crashing down with a collapse against Milwaukee in the conference semifinals. Rozier finished the regular season with averages of just 9.0 points in 22.7 minutes a game. His frustration poured out in interviews shortly after the playoffs.

"Not liking how me being positioned and me being used as a person, player and I just feel like things could have been done better, could've been handled better on Boston's end and on my end," Rozier answered when asked what went wrong last season. "I feel like things could've been a lot better, and it wasn't.




https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2849414-you-dont-know-terrys-scary
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 04, 2019, 08:53:22 PM
https://swarmandsting.com/2019/09/02/charlotte-hornets-training-camp-line-player/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 04, 2019, 09:06:53 PM
A panel of ESPN insiders selected Rozier's sign-and-trade as one of the offseason's most questionable moves. Doesn't make any sense, wrote one. Mind-boggling, wrote another. Another ESPN survey of 20 anonymous coaches, executives and scouts listed Rozier's acquisition as the third-worst of the summer, behind his other would-be suitors—the Knicks offseason in totality and Ricky Rubio's signing in Phoenix.



heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 05, 2019, 12:16:27 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 04, 2019, 11:01:03 AM
Bo, your betting NO on Bridges is once again noted.
Careful.......

Actually I've hedged.
I think he's a nice energy player with solid defense.  But can he offend?

Actually I was in favor of drafting one of the Bridges instead of Knox.
Miles Bridges was touted as a plug-n-play 3&D F.
Mikal a scorer.  He did alright in the mess that was PHX.  But jury still out on him as well.
I got on board with the Knox pick, but he was much more of a risk, being so young.

Unfortunately, with the Barrett pick, Knix again went young and raw upside over more established 3&D options.  We'll see how it turns out.
I guess if one becomes a star, it's worked out.  But I like 3&D, and would have preferred one solid reliable pick and one big upside gamble.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 05, 2019, 12:37:37 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 04, 2019, 10:56:02 AM
Yeah, its between MKG and Marvin to start.  Bridges takes the other (3/4)

Zeller
Rozier
Batum

Biyombo off the pine, with MKG/Marv, Monk, Devonte Graham, Hernangomez and the aforementioned P J Washington, who can play.

I agree with you.  Both Marv and Bridges can start.
Rozier - Batum - Bridges - Marv - Zeller
A fairly decent team
MKG - Monk - Bacon - Willy - Graham as backups.

One year for Rozier if he didn't get the big offers he was hoping for.
If PHX went with Rubio, and Kemba stayed, not clear where the landing spot would be for Rozier.  Could have then taken a big one year make-good contract with NYK to up his value for FA next year.
Agree with Kam, I wouldn't have wanted Rozier for 3/$57M.

Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 04, 2019, 07:07:36 PM
I dont think Cha deals Bridges for Shae right now.

Guess it depends what you mean by "right now"
After they traded for and paid Rozier big, adding Shai has less appeal at the expense of a young F.  But I'd much rather have Shai than Rozier.
Could have gotten something else back for Kemba.
I'd much rather have Shai and Jaylen Brown than Rozier and Bridges.
(not saying that was possible, but maybe ...)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 05, 2019, 12:59:42 AM
Quote
I suspect the Nets would have a spirited debate about dealing, say, at least LeVert, Allen, Kurucs and two unprotected first-round picks for Beal.

I thought that from Zach Lowe sounded crazy.
Beal is a star, but no way would I consider such a package.
LeVert and Allen are good young players.   Kurucs interesting.  Does anyone ever trade unprotected picks anymore? 
Even with one 1st rounder, that'd be a score for WASh.

LaVert, Allen and one 1st rounder sounds fair.
I'd probably jump that if I were the Wiz (depending whta other deals are out there).  If they did the trade this year, all it takes is a Kyrie injury to make that a pretty high pick.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 05, 2019, 05:21:20 AM
You’d probably have to take Beal & Irving over Dame & CJ. Beal can lead while Kyrie Kyries.

Nets would still have DJ, Harris, Dinwiddie, eventually chemically enhanced Wil Chandler, and that other guy they drafted along with Kurcus. Might make space for Melo. Since you’ve already got Kyrie, why not? It’s not like your chemistry could be more at risk, you’re just courting a larger explosion when it happens.

Beal matches Kyrie’s timeline way more than KD does.

New owners like to make splashes in Brooklyn. Sometimes it works out a little funny though.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 05, 2019, 10:29:45 AM
Nets-Wiz

I dont think Mr Allen goes anywhere

Re:  Celts swap of Rozier for Walker - C's actually were given teh better of the drfat pick swap as well.  They werent GIVING something else - you said Brown? - for Kemba.  In their mind Rozier was a goner - but they still got a smidgen from CHA to lock other teams out of the bidding.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 05, 2019, 10:34:26 AM
"If Phoenix went with Rubio and Kema stayed...."

They weren't.  They were going with Rozier.  Shifted to Rubio after Terry decided to go with Jordan..
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 05, 2019, 12:37:09 PM
You're right.  PHX wanted Rozier.
So more like IF PHX wasn't interested in Rozier, then the Knix might have had a shot.  If the Knix offered 3 years, we could've had Rozier.  But I agree with what the PerMills did.  Try for Rozier for a single year, and not overpay on a 3 year.  Picked up Elfrid at less than half the Rozier rate.

One of LeVert/Dinwiddie is expendable.  But Nets should hold on to Allen, who can learn a lot from DeAndretheGiant.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 05, 2019, 02:43:33 PM
I am somewhat bullish on Payton but do not like a position share.

Hornets are giving TR the reins, as PHX is with Ricky.  And LAL with Rondo - and GSW with Rusell.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 05, 2019, 06:03:11 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 05, 2019, 12:37:09 PM
You're right.  PHX wanted Rozier.
So more like IF PHX wasn't interested in Rozier, then the Knix might have had a shot.  If the Knix offered 3 years, we could've had Rozier.  But I agree with what the PerMills did.  Try for Rozier for a single year, and not overpay on a 3 year.  Picked up Elfrid at less than half the Rozier rate.

One of LeVert/Dinwiddie is expendable.  But Nets should hold on to Allen, who can learn a lot from DeAndretheGiant.

In what quadrant of the known galaxy? 

LeVert is a scoring machine, and Dinwiddie is superb sixth man option at PG, SG, SF. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 05, 2019, 06:11:16 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 04, 2019, 09:06:53 PM
A panel of ESPN insiders selected Rozier's sign-and-trade as one of the offseason's most questionable moves. Doesn't make any sense, wrote one. Mind-boggling, wrote another. Another ESPN survey of 20 anonymous coaches, executives and scouts listed Rozier's acquisition as the third-worst of the summer, behind his other would-be suitors—the Knicks offseason in totality and Ricky Rubio's signing in Phoenix.



heh

Heh2

Are these the same geniuses who excoriated the Giants for drafting Daniel Jones?

Randle and Portis, to name just two of the Knicks' "pathetic" signings , are going to be serving up a banquet table full of crow sashimi soon enough. 

As for Smith-Peyton-Ntilikina.

Though the narrative wherein a veteran presence up and down the roster as a means of motivating and developing our youth is positive, I think you're right to be dubious about the implications of sharing at point guard, let alone at SG and SF. 

Didn't do French Frank any good to see inconsistent, erratic spot minutes the past two seasons (and then for the team to jettison Mudiay ANYWAY). 

Fizdale is going to face a big challenge to sort out some rational rotations, while figuring out a way to keep the likes of Frank and Elfrid, Damyean and Iggy in the flow and involved. 

Or else Scott Perry is going to have to work them phones to thin out the herd. 

PS: Anyone have any thoughts about getting RJ some burn at PG? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 05, 2019, 07:43:54 PM
We have a good enough roster this season that the things that work in practice should work in games. If RJ can hold his own or better against Payton, Frank, and Smith, I wouldn’t object.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 05, 2019, 10:30:57 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 05, 2019, 06:11:16 PM


PS: Anyone have any thoughts about getting RJ some burn at PG?

Yes,  I like it.  Any backcourt featuring RJ will de-facto run through RJ.


RJ and Frank make a good pair as Frank has low usage and RJ has high usage.


Frank defends.  RJ offers a willing offensive version of what Frank should be.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 05, 2019, 11:56:59 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 05, 2019, 06:03:11 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 05, 2019, 12:37:09 PM
You're right.  PHX wanted Rozier.
So more like IF PHX wasn't interested in Rozier, then the Knix might have had a shot.  If the Knix offered 3 years, we could've had Rozier.  But I agree with what the PerMills did.  Try for Rozier for a single year, and not overpay on a 3 year.  Picked up Elfrid at less than half the Rozier rate.

One of LeVert/Dinwiddie is expendable.  But Nets should hold on to Allen, who can learn a lot from DeAndretheGiant.

In what quadrant of the known galaxy? 

LeVert is a scoring machine, and Dinwiddie is superb sixth man option at PG, SG, SF.

But they would be getting Beal
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 06, 2019, 12:00:01 AM
PS: Anyone have any thoughts about getting RJ some burn at PG?


Lord....  no.
Title: What the Hey?!?
Post by: bodiddley on September 06, 2019, 02:44:11 AM
Quote from: chipstern on September 05, 2019, 06:11:16 PM
PS: Anyone have any thoughts about getting RJ some burn at PG?

I think you're way over-thinking.
Barrett is a 19 year old rook with plenty to work on (3's & D).
Why even consider trying to have him try to learn the hardest position as well.  Especially as we have 3 PG's on our roster already.  Barrett needs to adjust to the NBA grind and game.  Keep it simple, keep him in a comfort zone as much as possible, try to make things easy for him.
I never understand trying to squeeze players into the PG role when that isn't their game/past.  Kind of like Trier at PG fantasies.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 06, 2019, 04:27:09 AM
Quote from: chipstern on September 05, 2019, 06:03:11 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 05, 2019, 12:37:09 PM
One of LeVert/Dinwiddie is expendable.  But Nets should hold on to Allen, who can learn a lot from DeAndretheGiant.

In what quadrant of the known galaxy? 

LeVert is a scoring machine, and Dinwiddie is superb sixth man option at PG, SG, SF.

You gotta give to get.
LeVert is an exciting young player, but Beal is better right now, and for the next few years.  Given health, I could see Kyrie, KD and Beal being the nucleus of a title team.

Nets could even flip LeVert for a quality wing starter.  Right now Wil was the projected starter and he needs to demedicate for 1/3 of the season.

Look, Nets have time to see how Kyrie, LeVert and Dimwilly play together.  And if Kyrie and LeVert can stay healthy. 

BUT, this year LeVert, Jar Allen and Kurucs make a combined $7M, so I don't know what nonsense Zach Lowe is providing.  As far as I can tell, LeVert's contract extension doesn't kick in til next year.  And if LeVert is at $2.7M this year, it's hard to see how to get any kind of deal done anyway.

I assume the Netizens probably want to see how this year goes and then what they've got when Durant returns.  A sub-theme/concern this year might be how well KD is recovering.  But Nets have some work to make that team next year with KD & Kyrie true contenders.  Kyrie hasn't exactly been Mr. Health or have a PhD in Chemistry.

I didn't realize they gave DeAndre the Giant a 4 year deal.  A movable deal if he's sluggish or detached, or just doesn't mesh.

I assume this is a feeling out year for the Nets, and try to make a good playoff run.  Then can evaluate when (older, somewhat diminished) KD returns next year.
Title: Re: What the Hey?!?
Post by: Kam on September 06, 2019, 11:09:15 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 06, 2019, 02:44:11 AM
Quote from: chipstern on September 05, 2019, 06:11:16 PM
PS: Anyone have any thoughts about getting RJ some burn at PG?

I think you're way over-thinking.

I never understand trying to squeeze players into the PG role when that isn't their game/past.  Kind of like Trier at PG fantasies.

Welcome to positionless basketball 2019.  A decade ago you needed a distributor who thought pass first.   Now you need a scoring threat to handle the ball.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 06, 2019, 11:49:30 AM
I'm not buying that at the Point.
You still need a distributor out there and a good ballhandler.  And Trier is neither.  Now if you want to let Trier do more combo guard work on the 2nd unit, I could be in favor, but not so much when we have 3 PG's.  Try out a Franc and Trier bench backcourt with both as combo guards.  Fine with me.  But Trier as starting PG is useless. 

The only non-PG's I can think of who play a lot of PG successfully are LeBJ, Dray and Simmons.  Jokic does a lot of passing and orchestrating.  I can't think of any one under 6'8" who is not a PG doing distributing and ballhandling at any decent level.  Tangelo is imo a combo guard, so somewhat qualifies.
Title: Re: What the Hey?!?
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 06, 2019, 11:52:35 AM
Quote from: Kam on September 06, 2019, 11:09:15 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 06, 2019, 02:44:11 AM
Quote from: chipstern on September 05, 2019, 06:11:16 PM
PS: Anyone have any thoughts about getting RJ some burn at PG?

I think you're way over-thinking.

I never understand trying to squeeze players into the PG role when that isn't their game/past.  Kind of like Trier at PG fantasies.

Welcome to positionless basketball 2019.  A decade ago you needed a distributor who thought pass first.   Now you need a scoring threat to handle the ball.

I guess the Barrett to PG folks are thinking - hey - it worked for Winslow - but I am still not bullish on it.

Let the kid slash from the wings.

Not playing point doesnt mean he cant play PNR.

So....

over/under on RJB FG% through Dec 31 is........

.357.

Over under PPG is.....

14.3.

Sound about right?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 06, 2019, 11:57:31 AM
It worked for Winslow?

I'll be surprised if Barrett averages over 12 PPG.
But it's hard right now to know how he'll be used, how many minutes he'll get, and if he'll start.  Maybe 22-25 mpg.
Crowded roster.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 06, 2019, 11:58:44 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 06, 2019, 11:49:30 AM


The only non-PG's I can think of who play a lot of PG successfully are LeBJ, Dray and Simmons.  Jokic does a lot of passing and orchestrating.  I can't think of any one under 6'8" who is not a PG doing distributing and ballhandling at any decent level.  Tangelo is imo a combo guard, so somewhat qualifies.

And Harden.
And Westbrook.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 06, 2019, 12:56:10 PM
Russell has always been a PG - so if your question is is he capable........

resounding yes.

If the question is where they will use him - then sure - combo

I mentioned Winslow.  Not sure what their plans are for him this year in MIA.  Did a real nice job at the point a year ago.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 06, 2019, 02:00:03 PM
Yeah, Westbrook has always been a PG.

Add in Harden.
But it underlines my point that you really need a unique transcendent type to pull off playing PG when your natural position is otherwise. 

LBJ, Harden, Simmons.
And to a lesser extent Dray, Jokic who do a lot of playmaking.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 06, 2019, 04:42:01 PM
I like the idea of Frank, RJ, and Trier as a 3 guard alignment. You could give them lots of space by running them with Morris and Portis, a lineup that rebounds much better than it protects the rim.

I don’t expect anyone but Randle to see 30 minutes a game this season. Morris could do it, but there is too much talent that need time at SF in Knox, Iggy, and Barrett.

My major hope and concern is whether or not we can field a decent defensive squad throughout the season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 06, 2019, 05:14:52 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 06, 2019, 04:42:01 PM
I like the idea of Frank, RJ, and Trier as a 3 guard alignment. You could give them lots of space by running them with Morris and Portis, a lineup that rebounds much better than it protects the rim.

I don’t expect anyone but Randle to see 30 minutes a game this season. Morris could do it, but there is too much talent that need time at SF in Knox, Iggy, and Barrett.

My major hope and concern is whether or not we can field a decent defensive squad throughout the season.

OMG

To what end?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 06, 2019, 07:13:41 PM
Defensive size, athleticism, and versatility. It lets Frank play the supporting role to two guys happy to finish. It puts Trier’s Energy, Physicality and Stroke to challenge opposing points, who’ll draw him as a matchup with Frank gobbling steals and RJ supporting boards. Any of the three can set up an action. Any of the three are more dangerous on attack on the move off the ball. The defensive help plays from Frank and Trier alone give you the luxury of putting floor spreaders to help offensive spacing.

If Frank and/or RJ can shoot steadily, you can put Mitch and Randle in to cause problems on another order of magnitude.

DSJ, Payton, and Dotson will have something to say about how much those three play.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 06, 2019, 09:56:17 PM
Which team's 1/2/3 can they compete with?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 06, 2019, 09:57:36 PM
Oh, wait - I forgot.  Doesn't matter since we aren't trying to win

Heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 08, 2019, 01:04:04 AM
Catching a France-Lithuania replay.
To speak Francly, Nkilitina's offense is offensive.
They have him bring the ball upcourt, stop beyond the 3-point line and make the first safe easy pass.  The one time there was a large seam and he drove, he stopped short of the help defender, looked around, and made a decrepit bounce pass back out that was easily stolen.  It was a very deliberate pass and looked like Franc put a little backspin on it that caused it to be extra-slow.  Weird.

Midway through 1Q, Franc tried an elbow 3 that was offline wide right.  A couple minutes later, Franc shot from the FT line and somehow missed the rim, got his own awkward rebound and passed back out.
Really looked remedial on O.  He got an assist hitting a cutting Gobert on a fast break.

Franc's D looked quite good.  As soon as France doesn't have the ball, Franc becomes engaged, seeks out his man, takes angles, looks like he's played hoops before.  Had one nice early rotation to get in front of a driving Lithuanian Big.  Guy scored, but Franc was in perfect position.  Got called for a foul shadowing a guy over a screen, but had been attached to that guy for 6+ secs. 

Franc was a total zero on O and looked real active involved on D.
That was an 8 min stretch.  Clearly Franc is out there on Team France for his D.  Their backup PG is very shrimpy.

Edit:  Franc's 3Q stint.
Played stout D.  Twice posted up by F's.  Kuzminskas got called for an O-foul for hooking Ffranc (fairly minor, but Franc stayed in position).    And Franc did another good post D but got called for a foul for getting his arm in too much.  Solid D.

On O, Franc continually picked up his dribble well beyond his range.  Made grade-school basic telegraphed passes.  And once drove in, ripped off a spin move and couldn't make the shot.  He just looks so mechanical of offense -- slow, deliberate, thinking.  Even on simple passes, he seems to have a slight hitch as though making sure the pass is safe.  Weird.  It looks more mental than physical.  His body language and rhythm changes once he's on D.  On O he's tentative and slow-motion.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 09, 2019, 02:37:48 AM
(https://storage.googleapis.com/afs-prod/media/63608c0d2d364abc95eeeaffdc9a8cee/1000.jpeg)

Cargo ship overturned off Georgia.
More than 2 football fields long.  it has a basketball court on deck (you can see in the photo.
When it went fully upside down, it oddly looks like a whale:
(https://storage.googleapis.com/afs-prod/media/9bfbd4bb0442423f95fcfa97956834ed/1000.jpeg)
And reportedly it was much more difficult to play hoops ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 09, 2019, 08:25:19 AM
RE: Ntilikina

Lets face it - our "braintrust" was misled by one or two performances in a U18 tournament.

Sick.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 09, 2019, 10:23:18 AM
Just hasn't developed as expected.
His defense is fine.
Needs a good deal of work and more confidence on O.
Not easy predicting how 18 and 19 year olds will develop.
I think Barrett has a lot of holes in his game and much to work on.

Between Franc and Knox and Barrett Knix have chosen to go awfully young/raw/upside  in recent drafts.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 10, 2019, 02:48:46 PM
I think it’s safe to say that there is an understanding we haven’t been and still aren’t ready for contention. Getting guys to develop together and build chemistry has been the move, but it only pays off if the organization can manage their continued growth.

Perry helped by bringing in Taj, Morris, Bullock, and Ellington. These guys are successful because they are technical rather than that they are physical outliers for their positions. We also brought our most proven player development guy up from Westchester to the main team.

We’re still at a point where we need the youth to succeed, but we are no longer dependent on a single kid to save the franchise.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 10, 2019, 10:48:03 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 09, 2019, 10:23:18 AM
Just hasn't developed as expected.
His defense is fine.
Needs a good deal of work and more confidence on O.
Not easy predicting how 18 and 19 year olds will develop.
I think Barrett has a lot of holes in his game and much to work on.

Between Franc and Knox and Barrett Knix have chosen to go awfully young/raw/upside  in recent drafts.

I dont think he is a defensive ONE.

Which I guess is OK.

Mills cooked him good the other day.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 10, 2019, 10:49:21 PM
The analyst in the AUS vs FRA game said, "Knicks expect big things from (Frank) this year."

Really?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 10, 2019, 10:50:21 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 09, 2019, 10:23:18 AM
Just hasn't developed as expected.
His defense is fine.
Needs a good deal of work and more confidence on O.
Not easy predicting how 18 and 19 year olds will develop.
I think Barrett has a lot of holes in his game and much to work on.

Between Franc and Knox and Barrett Knix have chosen to go awfully young/raw/upside  in recent drafts.

ONE of the three was an elite pick.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 11, 2019, 02:29:42 AM
According to a poll of the incoming rooks, picking 3rd we drafted the 3rd best Dukie ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 11, 2019, 08:24:08 AM
Could be..........
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 11, 2019, 09:36:04 AM
SPOILER ALERT






Credit Frank.

Not only was Ntilikina on the court in the 4th quarter.. He sizzled.  7 pints in 4th on jumpers.

Helped bottle up Mitchell, who had scored 14 in the 3rd quarter - and Kemba, who sadly struggled all night.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on September 11, 2019, 10:08:18 AM
Well let's hope he can build on that when he's done with Worlds and shows up in camp.

Still think, unlike most, that he's closer (though not in any way close) to being a starter on a winning team then our other PG candidates cause he can already fully bring it on the defensive end.

Didn't really see anybody playing meaningful minutes in last year's finals who couldn't.


*** 13 min game highlights here. https://youtu.be/EoZa1EOkWkY (https://youtu.be/EoZa1EOkWkY) Most important, he's driving into the lane from the first quarter on doing good things.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 11, 2019, 10:27:37 AM
- Noticeable with Frank how often he just switched on a ball screen.  Until further notice - for me anyway - he is just a guy with decent defensive instincts to go with his long arms.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 11, 2019, 12:04:52 PM
I only caught highlights.
I noticed 1st half how the shrimpy PG Albicy was out there and not Franc.
And the first Franc sighting was a US highlight as franc had a miserable turnover passing back out.

Then 4Q, under 4 mins to go, Franc pops a 3 to tie the score 76-76 and give France confidence.
Then a little later Franc cans another long jumper over Kemba to stretch France's lead.  I thought both were 3's, but the boxscore shows Franc 1-3 on 3's, so I guess one was a 2.  Still who imagined Franc popping in a long contested J in crunch time.  Franc finished +22, 2nd only to Gobert's +26.

I figured in a close game, the US could outplay most World team's down the stretch, especially given depth and freshness for US players.
USA missed Tatum.  Barnes and Mitchell were the only two over 25 minutes.  Barnes just 4 points in 32 mins.  I was thinking start Jaylen.

MyTurn and Bropez only tallied 15 mins, and plum guy 1 min more.  So US went smallball for 24 of 40 mins.  And Gobert killed them.  France up 78-76, Smart was guarding Gobert, and nearly knocked away the entry pass, but when he missed Gobert had an uncontested dunk.  And that was nearly that. 

Looks like Kemba had a rough game, but got 8 FT's, which is what you do when you're shot isn't going down.  As usual it looked like France went at JoeHorror (fouled out in 19 mins) and short Kemba.

Mitchell iso-ed Gobert late and got blocked on his drive.  Looked like US's last stand.  But really when you have Gobert guarding at the 3-point line, instead of going all macho, pass the damn ball and play 4-on-4 with Gobert out of the lane.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 11, 2019, 12:27:07 PM
Franc puts effort into D.

I think the early drives gave him confidence to launch some J's late.
If he can mix in some drives with some shooting, we'd be fine.  He also needs to throw sharper passes.  Just some okay offense would make him a useful player.

USofA was leading 72-65 early 4Q.  Then collapsed.
Down 4 with just over 1 min left when Mitchell decided to attack Gobert.
Down 6 with 34 secs and Kemba makes 1-3 FT's.
Down 5 20 secs left Middleton steps out on his 3 shot.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 11, 2019, 12:31:46 PM
Box score for anyone interested

http://www.fiba.basketball/basketballworldcup/2019/game/1109/USA-France#tab=boxscore

US qualified for the Olympics, which was the main point of this tourney.
But the US C team wasn't that good.
I thought France, Brazil, Australia were all solid teams, but I thought the US would be a little better.
Argentina, Spain and Serbia were supposed to be the best non-US teams.  Serbia got knocked out by Argentina,  I didn't see one Serbian game.
haven't seen Argentina either.

Argentina v France
&
Australia v Spain
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 11, 2019, 04:11:24 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 11, 2019, 12:31:46 PM


US qualified for the Olympics, which was the main point of this tourney.


That's quite funny.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 11, 2019, 06:02:50 PM
I didn't even know there was a basketball World Cup.
And would still know next to nothing about it if it wasn't held in China.
Was pretty surprised there were 32 teams involved too.

If this tourney was important to Americans and the NBA then LeBron, Harden, Scurry et al would be out there.  They'll be there for the Tokyo Olympics.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on September 11, 2019, 06:27:51 PM
I'm guessing we won't see Lebron in the 2020 Olympics.  He's done his bit.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 11, 2019, 08:28:20 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 11, 2019, 06:02:50 PM
I didn't even know there was a basketball World Cup.
And would still know next to nothing about it if it wasn't held in China.
Was pretty surprised there were 32 teams involved too.

If this tourney was important to Americans and the NBA then LeBron, Harden, Scurry et al would be out there.  They'll be there for the Tokyo Olympics.

I dont know - there has been talk that a few stars wont play for Pop.  His eccentric act can wear on you
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on September 11, 2019, 10:18:13 PM
They will be out to play, some of them surely, next summer for the Olympics.

That's part of the problem with this year's World Cup. It used to be held in even years, with a two year gap between it and the Olympics.

Then they messed with the schedule and have it in an odd year, one year before the Olympics. So it's summer WC - NBA Season - summer Olympics back to back to back which nobody really wants to do.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 12, 2019, 03:26:51 AM
Yeah, LeBJ is aging.  Should save his body for the NBA seasons.
But Harden is much more deadly than Donovan
Kawhi and Paul George are big upgrades over Tatum and Jaylen
Scurry, Lillard more killer than Kemba.

Really a big problem was that most international teams have some bulky post-up/rebound/rim protecting Bigs, and the US team fielded Myles Turner and Brook Lopez.  Having Anthony Davis would help a lot.  Dray too.  The US team went smallball a lot, with Jaylen or Smart guarding Goberts.

US team needs better outside shooting.  Harden, Scurry would help plenty.  And Joe Harris was a weak link defender.  France frequently used a Fournier/Gobert PnR to go at Harris/MyTurn.  (or DeColo?Gobert).  Every team went at Harris.

Harden upgrades Harris as both a scorer and defender (and orchestrator).   Harden / Scurry would also get FT's that mostly eluded the US team.
Only Kemba and Barnes got some FT's.

Guys who could/should be back. 
Kemba as backup PG.  Donovan as backup SG.  Tatum/Jaylen.  And Smart can be on my team any day.  They should be rewarded for dedicating their Summer to Team USA.

Joe Harris, Lopez, Plumlee, Derrick White will be ditched.  I thought White played his role well and added energy and craftiness.  But he's just not so high-level.  Harris was the best 3-shooter US had.  But they can add better.
Myles Turner, Middleton, Barnes all are replaceable.
I'm a Middleton fan, but he was disappointing.  Did okay, but was often invisible.

I'd roster:
Scurry - Kemba
Harden - Mitchell - Smart
Kawhi - Paul George - Jaylen
Dray - Tatum
Brow Davis - ??

That's 11. 
Need an extra Backup C.  DeAndrethe Giant?  Drummond?  Mitch?
Or just use Dray as your backup Big?

I was going to go with Conley as my 3rd PG, but just realized that it's only a 12 man roster.  You could also go with Kyrie or Lowry.  I'm not a Kyrie fan and he'd be the weak link defender.  Teams constantly posted Kemba and he manned up and was tough.  I'd reward Kemba for this year's run.  And if he's the backup PG, Conley makes sense as he can accept limited minutes but be ready as needed.  I'd take Lowry over Kyrie too.  But I'd stay loyal to Kemba.  But with a 12 man roster, you probably just go with 2 PG's and Harden is your 3rd PG.  Smart can fill in there too.

So I have 11 and room for one more.
Could go with Beal for more shooting.  Butler for more defense and aggressiveness.  I think Mitchell has taken Booker's slot.   Klay and KD getting back from gimpiness.  I'm not excited about Oladipo.

Really if both Kawhi and PG play, you don't really need Tatum.  But he's a switchable 2-way guy and should be rewarded for being there this Summer.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 12, 2019, 03:43:20 PM
Joe Johnson is going to camp w Detroit and competing with Christian Wood for the 15th spot. If Johnson puts Wood on the waiver wire (50-50, imo), we should either cut Reggie or move Dot to make room and snatch him up. He’s a play fast, spread the floor, and protect the rim guy with good size who is a good athlete for his size. He’s about the same age as Trier.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/woodch01.html (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/woodch01.html)

I’d rather dump Bullock than flip Dotson for a pick and it doesn’t take a partner.

Mitch Portis Wood
Randle Taj Ignas
Morris Knox Dotson
Barrett Trier Ellington
Payton DSJ  Frank

That seems more like an 82 game roster free of major holes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 12, 2019, 05:49:26 PM
Harris had a nice tournament, actually
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 12, 2019, 06:05:56 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 12, 2019, 05:49:26 PM
Harris had a nice tournament, actually

Sure, as much as Jimmer had a nice NBA career.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 13, 2019, 04:10:39 AM
Harris was the only US player who consistently made 3's (until the last game).  And these are short int'l 3's, which even I make regularly.

But teams went at Harris on D all the time.
They either put him in PnR's, or made him chase his man off screens.
Watch highlights and you'll see how often it's Harris' man scoring.
Harris made a legit effort but his D isn't good, he isn't quick, and he fouled too much trying to play D.  He also looked chunky, which didn't help his speed any.

Teams also tried posting Kemba, but he really manned up, poking away dribbles, not giving up position, just fighting his a** off.  I was impressed by his tenacity.  After the first 2 or 3 games, the post-up-short-Kemba was no longer much used.  So it was go-at-Joe.  And feed a Big inside especially when US went to smallball.

One problem with being known as a weak defender is then you get attacked more and you have to play more defense.  I kind of felt bad for Harris.  i'd be interested to see stats  when Harris was the primary defender -- how many times compared to other defenders and the scoring rate.

Mitchell played fairly iffy D, mostly of the unaware variety.  But he's athletic and teams didn't go at him.  Teams seemed to try to avoid Smart, except when he was defending a C down low.

I'd reward Kemba, Mitchell, Smart, Tatum and Jaylen with Olympic spots, just move all of them to the bench. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 13, 2019, 04:32:48 AM
Seems about right. Not Turner though?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on September 13, 2019, 10:58:30 AM
France out. Frank reputedly best player on the floor for the Francs.


*** Luis Scola goes nuts. I want some of his brand of Geritol.

*** Found the highlights, here they are : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cakx36wH5CM&feature=youtu.be  (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cakx36wH5CM&feature=youtu.be). What a waste every minute spent on "developing" Mudiay was (not even counting the cost of probably costing us Zion or Morant). If Fuckdale isn't fired by Jan 1 (as I fully expect), I really hope we trade Frank so he can move on and get started with what will likely be a fine career.
Title: Francly
Post by: bodiddley on September 13, 2019, 01:58:58 PM
Franc was France's best player largely by default as no one else had a good game.  France couldn't make any 3's.  Fournier, DeColo, Batum & Franc all went 1-5 or 1-6 on 3's -- combined 4-22.  The other PG, shrimpy Albicy was another 1-5.  France was also just 13-25 on FT's.

Argentina tried hard to stay on Fournier and DeColo, somehow managing to guard outside and stop Gobert inside.  It was a very scrappy, disjointed, foulathon type game.  And neither team really had any rhythm. 

Argentina didn't worry much about Franc who opportunistically took advantage with some drives and J's.  You can see that on the very first French basket, where both defenders drop back on the Gobert screen and Franc takes and makes a wide open long J.  Unfortunately he was somewhat indecisive -- not planning to shoot -- so came in a little and took a 21 footer just inside the line.

Franc again looked good on D, very aware, switching, shadowing his man, negotiating screens.  On O, he was cautious but marginally more aggressive than usual.  Still just 1-5 on 3's.  And his passes are still remedial and dangerous.  On those rare Franc drives, he tends to go in and stop when a help defender comes over, then his passes out are terrible.  He had 2 TO's like that, another where it looked like another weak turnover, but a foul was called on his defender for hitting his passing hand.  Franc had another weak telegraphed pass nearly picked off.  And that was just where he picked up his dribble 28 feet out -- a Franc specialty -- and tried to pass to a Frenchie near the sideline 23' feet away.  The kind of pass that never should be stolen -- the Argentinian  stepped out as he caught it.

So a good game from Franc.  One diagonal drive he laid it in over a bigger guy.  Another he drove in for a lefty layup against a shrimpy Argie PG.
But there was still the issue of picking up his dribble a mile out.  Weak passes that were easy to read ... especially passing back out.  And he couldn't make 3's.
There's a languid smoothness to Franc's drives, without explosiveness.  But it was good to see him use his height on one drive and to shoot over a small PG another time.

I'm not too down on Franc.  But he's got a lot to work on.  Must improve those passes.  Make them crisper, quicker, and not so deliberate.  Sometimes he seems to put a hitch on his passes, seemingly trying to make sure they're safe, but conversely making them weaker and more obvious, slower and more easily stolen.  It'll be an improvement if Franc mixes in opportunistic drives and J's like he did this game when the defense is focused elsewhere.  Of course if he could make 3's that would be great, but he's a long way away from that ..
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 13, 2019, 02:06:45 PM
It was a poor game from France.  But their best game by far was against the US. 

Scola has a fair amount of gray in his hair.  Played hard.  Had some trouble with Gobert's size down low.  Under 5 minutes with a 12 point or so lead, Scola popped in a pair of 3's.  28 & 13 (9/10FT's) in 34 mins. 
Outside of Scola, Argy was just 6-21 on 3's.

A choppy disjointed physical game.  Which suits Scola fine.
Scola played for Shanghai last year and I think is signed again for this season.  He's 39 and still a tough mofo.  First time I've seen him with short hair.  Almost a little George CLooney look to him ...

One of his teammates was sporting a serious mullet.
There wasn't much rock n' roll hair in this tourney.  Usually these Euro teams can be counted on for a few guys with 70's style big hair.  Maybe the ubiquitous side-shaving has cut into that.  Or rock has died even in Eastern Europe ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 13, 2019, 02:22:18 PM
Gad, US still has another loser game to play to determine 7th or 8th.  v. Poland.  What's the point.  Maybe it matters for Olympic qualifying (for Poland in this case).

I'd be okay with Myles Turner getting rewarded with an Olympic spot.  But he's sort of a Har Barnes type.  Makes mistakes.  Up and down.  Turner gets uncertain on PnR coverage.  I'd rather a more steady C defender.  But there aren't too many good American C's anymore.  DeAndre.  Drummond.  Er ...  So maybe Anothny Davis and MyTurn.  Keep the young guy in the main pipeline.

Not sure why Lampe isn't on Poland's team.  He's played in China for years, so knows the culture.  And China was in Poland's group, and he knows the Chinese players and style.  Poland wound up beating China on OT.Gortat not on the team as well.

In China, Lampe is a good semi-dominant player, but lazy.
Often won't block out, slow about getting back on D, etc.
Talented guy with bad habits.  34 now, so maybe just aged out if the team.

Most interesting thing about Poland is Olek Balcerowski, an 18 year old 7'1" C.  And AJ Slaughter a black American naturalized Pole PG.
They also have a scrappy wing Politka who fouls like mad.

Spain-Australia played a 2OT game.
Wish I saw that instead of the Franc-Argy slog.
Ma Gasol 33; Pad Mills 34.  Rubio 19 / 12 / 7.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 14, 2019, 03:01:26 AM
Interesting article on how HOU signed Nene to a $10M contract with only the vet min $2.54M guaranteed and a bunch of "likely" incentives topping up the rest.  Giving them a contract that could be used to trade for Iggy -- to save Memf money.  It allows them a couple months to see how the harden_Westbrook tandem works and if they are real contenders.  Interesting.
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/how-rockets-manipulated-the-salary-cap-to-create-a-trade-asset-out-of-thin-air-become-favorites-for-andre-iguodala/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Urethra_Franklin on September 15, 2019, 03:46:27 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 11, 2019, 12:31:46 PM

US qualified for the Olympics, which was the main point of this tourney.



(https://djohn114.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/special-olympics.png)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 15, 2019, 10:19:34 AM
WC Final turned out to be a dud.
Spain was up by 9 after 1Q and double digits the rest of the way.
Mostly a 16-20 point lead, until ARG cut it to 12 twice mid-4Q when they went into furious trapping mode at times and forced turnovers.

Spain dominated inside on both ends.
Spain outrebounded ARG 47-27.
And outscored ARG 44-30 in the paint.
Gasol and Willy with 3 blocks each, and plenty of deterrence.
ARG defense was terrible on PnR's.

Rubio, 20 points, was aggressive, even getting called for two charges when he went through defenders.  FIBA calls it pretty tight on push-offs and off fouls in general.  Sometimes Rubio handled the traps with aplomb, other times he made lame turnovers.

Scola was out of gas.  1-10 FG.  0-5 on 3's.  Got stuffed by Gasol a few times.  Zero lift inside.  Ma Gasol bigger and equally crafty.

Juancho had a nice game, slipping under for easy baskets 3x in the 3Q.
Blocked a fastbreak layup.  Fouled out late.

ARG was the best team all tourney.  But they faded in the Final.  Partly due to Scola being spent.  And Spain's size.
Title: Dawg Tired
Post by: chipstern on September 15, 2019, 05:30:31 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on September 11, 2019, 10:08:18 AM
Well let's hope he can build on that when he's done with Worlds and shows up in camp.

Still think, unlike most, that he's closer (though not in any way close) to being a starter on a winning team then our other PG candidates cause he can already fully bring it on the defensive end.

Didn't really see anybody playing meaningful minutes in last year's finals who couldn't.


*** 13 min game highlights here. https://youtu.be/EoZa1EOkWkY (https://youtu.be/EoZa1EOkWkY) Most important, he's driving into the lane from the first quarter on doing good things.



Vis a Vis your comments about player development and wasted time on the Mudiay experiment, far be it from me to disdain your reasoned POV regarding Fizdale and what have you, but as for dropping the ball on Frank Ntilikina, you may or may not recollect, that having come back from an injury, and being once again proffered significant minutes in the rotation, Frank proceeded to get hurt again (a hammy was it not?) and was thenceforth missing in action for what, like 45 games. 

So not quite the sinister lack of consideration or Fizzdalian Fuckleness you suggested in your trademark understated manner. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 15, 2019, 07:41:57 PM
"Spain over US or France"

- Kid8


OR ARGENTINA.......(had no idea they would get there)

A dud?  Really?  Give that nation its props.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 16, 2019, 12:54:51 AM
Great tourney for ARG, but the Final wasn't competitive.

Czech was another surprise team.  They outplayed and outhustled Serbia the 1st half of the 5/6 consolation game, until Serbia dominated 4Q.  Czech has a Big that reminded me of Robin Lopez, Balvin a  7'1" C.  Turns 27 this week.  Unfortunately, there is a C glut in the NBA and the C position isn't as important as it used to be.  So no NBA for him.
Satoransky had a strong tourney.  And the Czech wings were solid.
Czech beat Brasil and Australia, two solid teams.
I'm sure no one picked Czech (6th) to finish ahead of the US (7th)

Poland was another surprise, but mostly they beat weak teams, for an 8th place finish.

The US and Serbia were favorites going into the WC, with Australia seen as having an outside chance.

World Cup has 32 teams.  Olympics just 12.  7 qualified in this tourney, japan is the host, so just 4 Olympic spots open.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 16, 2019, 02:33:10 AM
I like that Hasheem Thabeet is working out with the Knicks. I hope he’s getting reps in with Mitch Robinson and Taj is giving Mitch tips on how to deal with Hasheem’s size.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 16, 2019, 01:10:53 PM
Why?  Teams don't use size anymore.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 16, 2019, 02:00:44 PM
Not in our division at least.

Gasol
Kanter
Embid & Harford
DJ & Allen

Kanter and possibly DJ will play less than half a game, but they’ll still play.

Just because they’re less important doesn’t mean they don’t exist.
Title: Tick TOCK Tick TOCK
Post by: chipstern on September 20, 2019, 03:52:31 PM
(https://img.bleacherreport.net/img/images/photos/003/818/941/hi-res-67d6fef15ac2939abd5ef6ad28d9567b_crop_north.jpg?h=533&w=800&q=70&crop_x=center&crop_y=top)

Monday, September 30.

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/R0nJZ_RItag/hqdefault.jpg)

We shall see. 

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR-YI79qpv30qMQvyYeWVuRqpj70dRwopUBS2mCEsoYa-sjrWSw)

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 21, 2019, 11:02:40 PM
They'll likely have a media session on the 30th, i'm guessing actual ball practice starts Tuesday the 1st
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 22, 2019, 06:37:15 AM
I think if you're drafting, you wouldn't want to take Knox and Barrett in B2B years.  Both are quite young, somewhat raw, and not sure things.  I would have preferred getting a more solid plug'n'play 3&D wing in one of the drafts. 

Picked after Knox were Bridges, a quality PG in Shai, Bridges and the enigmatic talented gimpy Porter Jr.

The Knix have drafted well the last decade or so, and I was fine with them going with the raw upside of very Knox, if that's who they thought was best.  But it was a very deep draft.  And I didn't know how bad Knox's defense level was.
In hindsight I would have taken Shai, who was moving up draft boards and getting buzz late.

And now we drafted another very young guy with noticeable flaws -- outside shooting and again defense.  Seems we went high-risk/high-reward again, with both players seemingly poor defenders. 

Picked after Barrett -- 3&D wings Hunter and Culver; a pair of Points Garland and Coby White; while Jaxson Hayes and Reddish are getting some hype.

Not sure what the trade-down options were.  ATL nabbed Hayes & Reddish at 8 & 10.   If we could have somehow gotten one of those two plus a PG such as Garland or White . . .

Hunter is almost 22, 2.5 years older than Barrett.  But fits very well the 3&D, switchable, multi-position wing that is vital these days.

Again, as always, I'm no draftnik.  Just wasn't impressed by Barrett's college highlight reel.  Which is all the sleuthing I did.  A lot of awkward odd-angle drives that he gets in, and not much passing or shooting.  He's super-young and has a good support network (including Steve Nash).  But I would have been looking elsewhere.

Two lotto drafts, and we didn't get a reliable defender or a 3 point shooter (ideally one 3&D wing) or a PG.  Shai & Hunter would be a better tandem than Barrett & Knox.  I don't know enough about Garland & White to know if I'd prefer one of them and a Bridges to what we got. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 22, 2019, 10:19:51 AM
Barrett is not Knox (redux)

Nuff said.

And you certainly dont say. "well. we missed on Knox as a home run play, so lets play it safe here".  Thats no way to run a club

I was in favor of Garland (with a PG restructure after they decided no Mudiay) - but not because RJ is a question. 

Still B/B - BULLISH  on BARRETT.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 22, 2019, 10:27:40 AM
I think Knox qualifies as a "three point shooter", having made 125 of them
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 23, 2019, 11:36:11 AM
I realize you play the hand you're dealt.
But you're always the Trade Up/Trade Down Kid.

But you look at ATL with Trae and Collins.
Or Memf with Ja & Jackson.
Where they have drafted a young PG & a Big.
And they are well ahead of us in rebuilding and having a path forward.  You can more easily see how to fit pieces around them.
And build a team.

Not sure when/how the Knix are going to get a legit starting PG.
Not sure why our roster is so crowded.
Not sure why we didn't bring back any of last year's developmental crew.  (I would have kept Kornet and probably Vonleh).   Continuity is good for a team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 23, 2019, 12:18:26 PM
FWIW, ESPN ranks Mitch #98 and Randle 92:

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27640475/ranking-best-players-nba-season-100-51
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 23, 2019, 01:33:55 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 23, 2019, 11:36:11 AM
I realize you play the hand you're dealt.
But you're always the Trade Up/Trade Down Kid.

But you look at ATL with Trae and Collins.
Or Memf with Ja & Jackson.
Where they have drafted a young PG & a Big.
And they are well ahead of us in rebuilding and having a path forward.  You can more easily see how to fit pieces around them.
And build a team.

Not sure when/how the Knix are going to get a legit starting PG.
Not sure why our roster is so crowded.
Not sure why we didn't bring back any of last year's developmental crew.  (I would have kept Kornet and probably Vonleh).   Continuity is good for a team.

Well...

ATL hit on their PG.  We did not.

The mistake would be in continuing to act like you did.

Knicks are half-waying it - having picked up Smith and then Payton.

"Yeah, we still believe plenty in Frank......" - but with a possible franchise young point in tow if it goes further south
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 23, 2019, 04:55:01 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 23, 2019, 01:33:55 PM
ATL hit on their PG.  We did not.
The mistake would be in continuing to act like you did.

Knicks are half-waying it - having picked up Smith and then Payton.
"Yeah, we still believe plenty in Frank......" - but with a possible franchise young point in tow if it goes further south

Don't think that's the case.
I think NYK spent last season looking to move Franc and couldn't get the 1st rounder they were seeking.  The 2 PG's we have make it clear that Franc is expendable.

I think they'll try to move Franc again this year.
My guess is he'll be packaged with Taj or Ellington, to a team that needs either a defensive Big or more 3-Pt shooting for their playoff run.  But could be added with Morris too.

Knix could make a package of Taj, Ellington and Franc and see what that draws.  Basically gives a team an instant bench.

We have a loaded team, so really could put feelers out on all sorts of packages.  What could Jr. Smith and Morris return?   That could intrigue someone. 

Basically we have half the season to decide who is a keeper, which players fit together and fit with Mitch and Barrett (and to a lesser extent Knox).

I'd really like Franc to play 20 mins a night for a few months to see how he fits, how he's progressed and to up his value.  But with Jr. Smith and The Elf, and plenty of SG's, I'm not sure how that is going to happen.

But I think Knix will be looking to make a December trade.  Or something before the trade deadline.  If our record is poor, and we are loaded with decent talents, mostly on 1-years, I think rumors will swirl.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 23, 2019, 05:05:23 PM
I am not dealing either PG, even for (what would likely be a late)  #1
Title: TREMENDOUS HAIRDO
Post by: carlos123 on September 23, 2019, 10:07:17 PM
This is an actual unedited photo of our very stable genius who, according to the same very stable genius, deserves a Nobel Peace Price for a lot of reasons.

Fac, I thought you may like a new avatar. I'm sticking with the Títere, but I think this one is quite spectacular.

(https://o.aolcdn.com/images/dims?thumbnail=640%2C420&quality=80&format=jpg&image_uri=https%3A%2F%2Faol-releases-assets-production.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fgenerator%2F36435A35.jpg&client=amp-blogside-v2&signature=255728df0820782630c05f96d84cbaa4bcf45f77)

Slugs look rather nice by comparison (except when they don't have a racist bone).

(https://images.dailykos.com/images/701206/large/RacistBoneSlugTrumpWeb.jpg?1564290718)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 24, 2019, 12:13:37 PM
CBSports ranks presumed closing lineups for all teams.
They peg the Knix 29, ahead of only CHA.

Quote
29. New York Knicks
G Dennis Smith Jr.
G RJ Barrett
F Kevin Knox
F Marcus Morris
F Julius Randle

The Knicks have plenty of options this season as they try to figure out which young members of the team will be part of the franchise moving forward, but they'll probably start with this as their main closing lineup. None are really proven go-to scorers in crunch time, and they haven't played together at all, so it's probably going to be rough sledding for a while, much like the rest of the Knicks' season.
Elfrid Payton, Frank Ntilikina and Bobby Portis could also occasionally find themselves on the court for the final minutes.

That kind of looks like the worst defensive 5-Man team we could court.  Except worse if you swapped in Portis for Morris.

I'd think we won't have both Knox and Barrett out there to end games, unless they are both playing well.  Too porous and inexperienced.  I'd think we'd have one of Mitch/Taj
out there, to cover for mistakes and protect the rim.

I'm not even sure Jr. Smith finishes.  If he's playing well, sure. 
But plenty of games I could see Elf or Franc out there acrunching.

My Finishing Five:
Committee (whoever's playing well, tempered by what's needed)
Barrett/Knox
Morris
Randle
Mitch (Taj)

I do think Smith has the inside track as he's the presumed starter.
But Elf might show more savvy, pestiferousness and energy.
While we might just need Franc out there some games for his D
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 24, 2019, 12:14:11 PM
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/ranking-every-nba-teams-best-closing-lineup-entering-the-2019-20-season/

The guy who wrote that piece seems to have a definite smallball fetish.  He has 2 teams finishing with 3 PG's.  And Lots of teams closing with 2 PG's.  I seriously doubt OKC is running CP3 - Shai and Shroder all together in crunch time.  The other is CLE, which could do a Garland-Sexton-Clarkson triumvirate, if they want to go all-in on development.

The Nets might go with 3 G's -- Kyrie - Dinwiddie - LaVert.  But then he has Harris with them, and goes on to say that maybe they could go super small and have Kurucs or Taureen Prince out there with that quartet instead of Jar Allen or DeAndre. 
If they are using 4 smalls, I'm certain they're using one of their Big C's. I think there's zero chance Allen or Deandre isn't out there to end things.  Kyrie and Harris are sieves.

He also has BOS supersmall with Kemba - Smart - Jaylen - Hayward - Tatum.  Hmm.  Yeah, Horford is gone and Kanter isn't a great end game option.  But I see Theis or Kant out there.  Gotta board.  And Kant is dominant down low.

I don't think the League is going to embrace smallball as much as this feller. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 24, 2019, 07:13:03 PM
Frank should be in the closing lineup for his defense and clutch shooting he displayed in the Worlds.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 24, 2019, 09:21:10 PM
My Finishing Five:
Committee (whoever's playing well, tempered by what's needed)
Barrett/Knox
Morris
Randle
Mitch (Taj)



Nicely stated
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on September 25, 2019, 09:37:53 AM
personally, I can't see Knox sniffing the 4th quarter unless we're on the active tank again...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 25, 2019, 11:24:03 AM
I think Knox has a chance to be our leading 4th quarter scorer, though likely it will be the PG.

Bears watching
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 25, 2019, 12:01:11 PM
Knox as 6th man has appeal to it.   Just come in and be a scorer.  As a starter that attitude is problematic when there are more efficient options.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 25, 2019, 12:12:01 PM
Quote from: Kam on September 24, 2019, 07:13:03 PM
Frank should be in the closing lineup for his defense and clutch shooting he displayed in the Worlds.

You really need to stop this

He has long arms - we get it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 25, 2019, 03:15:33 PM
I think we'll want one of Barrett/Knox out there gaining experience.  It's another development year after all.

And some games we'll want Trier/Ellington/Datsun out there late for scoring.  So then Barrett can sit and Knox can get run.
And Barrett will have bad games where he's afflicted with rookie-itis and doesn't deserve late 4Q minutes.  OOur 3 PG's don't make 3's.  Add Randle - Mitch/Taj out  there late 4Q's, then Knox (hopefully) gives you a genuine 3-point threat. 
Instead of non-3 Barrett.Then put another 3-shooter out there with Knox. 

Hopefully Morris will teach Knox how to be more physical and assertive.  Knox often drives and kind of crouches or whatever making himself smaller.  Have to approach things like young Tatum and go strong to the hole.  Morris is going to be a real test for Knox in practice.  Hopefully he learns and doesn't mope or go into a shell.

Franc is more than just extended upper limbs.
He really puts effort into D.  Finds and tracks his man.
He has good awareness and mostly makes good reads.
Tries on screens.  Also can guard 3 positions, making him our
switchiest Guard on D.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 25, 2019, 03:47:29 PM
Frank switched on most screens at Worlds

I did appreciate his offense - but NBA is a different animal
Title: Frank & The Backcourt Scrum
Post by: chipstern on September 25, 2019, 05:09:30 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 25, 2019, 03:47:29 PM
Frank switched on most screens at Worlds

I did appreciate his offense - but NBA is a different animal

Progress counts for something. 

Someone to compete with:

Smith & Payton at PG

RJ, DD, Trier, Ellington at SG

And presumably offer a 3&D option as well. 

Fizdale purportedly wants DEFENSE. 

Well? 

After December 15 deals may be contemplated.

In the meantime, competition and...quite clearly, the reality of our depth chart at 1-2-3-4-5 is not lost on any of our veterans or pups, whether they are auditioning for the 2019-2020 Knicks' Rotation, the 2020-2021 Knicks Roster or that of the other 29 NBA teams. 

Competition?

There are worse plans going forward.  Let's see if Fizz is capable of translating that into a KNICKS CULTURE. 

Eli Manning & Daniel Jones springs to mind. 

Apples & Oranges?  Fair enough, but my point being, that while youth must be served, it does not necessarily have to be on a fucking silver platter. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 26, 2019, 08:53:40 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 25, 2019, 12:12:01 PM
Quote from: Kam on September 24, 2019, 07:13:03 PM
Frank should be in the closing lineup for his defense and clutch shooting he displayed in the Worlds.

You really need to stop this

He has long arms - we get it.

And confidence again.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 26, 2019, 05:21:00 PM
Quote from: Kam on September 26, 2019, 08:53:40 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 25, 2019, 12:12:01 PM
Quote from: Kam on September 24, 2019, 07:13:03 PM
Frank should be in the closing lineup for his defense and clutch shooting he displayed in the Worlds.

You really need to stop this

He has long arms - we get it.

And confidence again.

WORD
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 27, 2019, 09:30:42 AM
Against Team USA, Ntilikina hit two clutch shots down the stretch and finished with 11 points on 5-for-9 shooting and three assists.

“He played like a pro,” said former Knicks/Charlotte European scout Tim Shea, a consultant on overseas talent. “He won’t be a superstar because he maybe isn’t fast enough, but he can defend the point. He got into Kemba’s head late.”

“The big thing was his willingness to shoot the basketball from distance, and his ability to hit floaters was 1B,” Hauselman told The Post. “That’s something he had been terrible at. Suddenly he’s nailing those. He wasn’t passing up shots. It looked like that was changing with FIBA — catching and shooting, shooting off the dribble, being much more decisive.”
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 27, 2019, 09:55:47 AM
Franc probably works best as a 2nd unit guy at this stage, because he can come in and be more aggressive with his O knowing it's relatively short minutes.  Probably mostly best when he reacts and doesn't overthink.  You have an open shot or a driving lane, take it.

Knix aren't going anywhere this year.  So let Franc offend.

Franco also needs to improve on those weak telegraphed passes.
He was doing those in the Worlds.
And the WC was a mixed bag for Franc, he finished strong but had some iffy earlier games.  It's not like two games are going to change his entire demeanor and game ...
Title: Western Union
Post by: chipstern on September 27, 2019, 03:35:19 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 27, 2019, 09:55:47 AM
Franc probably works best as a 2nd unit guy at this stage, because he can come in and be more aggressive with his O knowing it's relatively short minutes.  Probably mostly best when he reacts and doesn't overthink.  You have an open shot or a driving lane, take it.

Knix aren't going anywhere this year.  So let Franc offend.

Franco also needs to improve on those weak telegraphed passes.
He was doing those in the Worlds.
And the WC was a mixed bag for Franc, he finished strong but had some iffy earlier games.  It's not like two games are going to change his entire demeanor and game ...

All of the Knicks telegraphed passes. 

But Frank was perhaps more obvious than most.  Often made me wince.  My grandmother knew where his passes were going, and she's been dead for 35 years. 

Perhaps if there were more coherence and continuity to the offense, and logic to the rotations. 

That is on FIZZ. 

New year.  New vets. 

Chance to get it right. 

Smith VS Peyton VS Ntilinkina

Have at it, motherfuckers. 

PS: I like the part about getting into Kemba's head. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on September 27, 2019, 03:43:15 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 23, 2019, 12:18:26 PM
FWIW, ESPN ranks Mitch #98 and Randle 92:

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27640475/ranking-best-players-nba-season-100-51

So I wonder, are we the only team in the NBA without a guy rated in the top 90?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on September 27, 2019, 03:52:23 PM
Aside from my earlier smartass view that the Knick's first team should compare pretty well with everyone else's second team....

I can support these guys. I'm up to see them confound the naysayers. Or at least see one or two of them reach some unexpected potential.

But with the same coach who presided over the dismal death march of last year's tank?

That's the guy who's going to push them to a new defensive intensity?
That's the guy that's going to lead the team into a bright, new future?

This is where I most struggle to suspend disbelief.

Title: Tick-Tock
Post by: chipstern on September 27, 2019, 04:27:02 PM
Quote from: elephant on September 27, 2019, 03:52:23 PM
Aside from my earlier smartass view that the Knick's first team should compare pretty well with everyone else's second team....

I can support these guys. I'm up to see them confound the naysayers. Or at least see one or two of them reach some unexpected potential.

But with the same coach who presided over the dismal death march of last year's tank?

That's the guy who's going to push them to a new defensive intensity?
That's the guy that's going to lead the team into a bright, new future?

This is where I most struggle to suspend disbelief.

Hear you. 

I am not quite as despondent about Fizz as you and LesterDawg.

Last year was an aberration, to put it mildly. 

How much of what went down was leadership by committee? 

Telling that neither Mills, nor Perry, nor Fizdale has made a peep this summer. 

Tamping down on expectations or just trying to proceed with a clean slate. 

I am actually excited about our signings.  Particularly Julius Randle, who I think has a chance to be a special player, and a leader.  He seems to be preparing to embrace that challenge. 

With Robinson, Randle, Portis and Taj, we are pretty well covered at the 5-4 spot in the small ball era. 

Likewise with Morris, Knox and Iggy at the 3-4.   

And our scrum at the 1-2-3 should be interesting.  The re-emergence of Frank to challenge at the 1-2-3 being a posisitve development. 

As per rotations and the calls, from Clyde and most of NYC, for defense, Defense, DEFENSE? 

I'm a fan of Fizz, but fuck me, the brother is on the clock. 
Title: Guess What?
Post by: chipstern on September 27, 2019, 04:30:29 PM
Nyets sign a former Knicks SF-PF.

Carmelo?

[Guffaw]

LANCE THOMAS. 

Fits their culture, and fills a need while another ex-Knick, Wilson Chandler, serves his 25 game suspension. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 27, 2019, 06:49:57 PM
Last year we had an ill-matched roster without one legit starter.  Or maybe one depending how you view Kanter in the modern NBA.  You know who led the Knix in Points per game?  The Mudman.  (Tim had more while he was here).

Fizz led the tank and it got us a #3 pick.
It was a development and reclamation year.
Zonja, Burke, Mud and Vonleh all averaged over 20 mins per game.
So did Mitch, Knox, Franc, Trier and Datsun.
Reclamations and yute.

This year we have more talent.
Randle and to a lesser extent Morris are solid starters.
Taj is aging but still a starting level player.  Portis nearly one as well.
So the Knix can just invent Powerball and start 4 PF's.

There's a lot of depth, but the Knix still have an unbalanced roster.
The Guard rotation is pretty up in the air.  We have 3 very young players who need lots of minutes.  No legit starting level PG.

So it's another development year.  No one expects these Knix to make the playoffs.  Or win half the games.  Under Fizz, lots of guys improved and many achieved above expectations.  I'd say that goes for Mitch, Mud, Kanter, Vonleh Trier, Dot, while Knox showed flashes.  That's half the roster.  While Kornet improved on D.

It's also a lot of guys who haven't played together.
Mitch, Knox, Trier, Dot, Franc the only guys who were here all last year.  And they all have limited NBA experience.

A lot of new faces, a lot of guys on short contracts, a lot of competition.
That certainly doesn't spell chemistry.
I'd say Fizz has his work cut out for him, managing minutes, egos, roles, while trying to balance vets and yute development, and figure out a sustainable G rotation.

So I think this on-the-clock BS is nonsense.  NY impatience.
Another development year.  More pieces to work with, but still an odd overloaded roster. 
Title: Rosy Cheeked Nonsense
Post by: chipstern on September 27, 2019, 08:13:21 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 27, 2019, 06:49:57 PM
Last year we had an ill-matched roster without one legit starter.  Or maybe one depending how you view Kanter in the modern NBA.  You know who led the Knix in Points per game?  The Mudman.  (Tim had more while he was here).

Fizz led the tank and it got us a #3 pick.
It was a development and reclamation year.
Zonja, Burke, Mud and Vonleh all averaged over 20 mins per game.
So did Mitch, Knox, Franc, Trier and Datsun.
Reclamations and yute.

This year we have more talent.
Randle and to a lesser extent Morris are solid starters.
Taj is aging but still a starting level player.  Portis nearly one as well.
So the Knix can just invent Powerball and start 4 PF's.

There's a lot of depth, but the Knix still have an unbalanced roster.
The Guard rotation is pretty up in the air.  We have 3 very young players who need lots of minutes.  No legit starting level PG.

So it's another development year.  No one expects these Knix to make the playoffs.  Or win half the games.  Under Fizz, lots of guys improved and many achieved above expectations.  I'd say that goes for Mitch, Mud, Kanter, Vonleh Trier, Dot, while Knox showed flashes.  That's half the roster.  While Kornet improved on D.

It's also a lot of guys who haven't played together.
Mitch, Knox, Trier, Dot, Franc the only guys who were here all last year.  And they all have limited NBA experience.

A lot of new faces, a lot of guys on short contracts, a lot of competition.
That certainly doesn't spell chemistry.
I'd say Fizz has his work cut out for him, managing minutes, egos, roles, while trying to balance vets and yute development, and figure out a sustainable G rotation.

So I think this on-the-clock BS is nonsense.  NY impatience.
Another development year.  More pieces to work with, but still an odd overloaded roster.

Agree with much of what you said, save for how no one expects us to win half of our games and [cough] nonsense. 

As you may or may not recall, I am and have remained a Fizdale booster.

Yes, the Knicks roster is a grab bag assembled on the fly and yes, this is another developmental year...but we have some solid veterans and in Robinson, Knox, Smith, Ntilikina, Trier, Dotson, RJ and Iggy we have some nice developmental pieces. 

Fizdale is indeed on the clock, not because of NYC impatience, but because the tanking/developmental narrative is kind of played out. 

Yes, we are still in possession of all our #1 picks, and yes, we are bringing along our puppies with some patience. 

The impatience comes from the way Fizz yo-yoed some players, and how for all the happy faces about developing players, Mills & Perry basically jettisoned Mudiay, Vonleh, Kornet and Hezonja, who all made progress. 

The brain trust thus determined that their progress was insufficient. 

And so, in going from Plan A [Developmental] to Plan B [Big Name Long Term Free Agents] to Plan C [Short Term, Moderate Value, Low Risk Free Agents] we are still sorting things out. 

The efficacy of Plan C thus depends on Fizdale establishing some sort of consistent, coherent, sustainable culture and team identity. 

And that my friend, is not nonsense, that is REALITY.   

What is nonsense?

The bleatings of we suck, we suck, we suck among the groundlings. 

We have an interesting roster, and some real talent. 

Seventeen wins last season?

Are 33-36-39 wins this season so beyond the pale? 

I don't think so, and that is FIZZ's challenge, and for that, yes, he is on the clock. 

But hey, I go into every season kind of blushing like a 13 year old girl, all rosy cheeked and such. 
Title: Re: Rosy Cheeked Nonsense INDEED
Post by: carlos123 on September 27, 2019, 09:43:53 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 27, 2019, 08:13:21 PM

Are 33-36-39 wins this season so beyond the pale? 


YESSSSSSSSS

I say 20.

(if we're lucky)

(https://cdn-s3.si.com/s3fs-public/styles/marquee_large_2x/public/2017/11/27/david-fizdale-fired-memphis-grizzlies.jpg?itok=TnogT1RN)
MR. BS
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 27, 2019, 09:46:44 PM
Smith VS Peyton VS Ntilinkina


vs LAMAR PETERS

Shakes and bakes...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTIA_uMKANI
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 27, 2019, 09:47:51 PM
Peters and Iggy are the 2 most interesting guys in camp
Title: NOT BS
Post by: carlos123 on September 27, 2019, 09:55:04 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EFgg70JXoAESvPO.jpg)

PETE ALONSO 52
Title: Re: Rosy Cheeked Nonsense
Post by: bodiddley on September 28, 2019, 06:10:14 AM
Quote from: chipstern on September 27, 2019, 08:13:21 PM
The efficacy of Plan C thus depends on Fizdale establishing some sort of consistent, coherent, sustainable culture and team identity. 

With another hastily patched together roster, albeit this time one with more talent.  Some team stability and player continuity would help things.
And that's not on Fizzbottom.


Quote
Are 33-36-39 wins this season so beyond the pale? 
I don't think so, and that is FIZZ's challenge, and for that, yes, he is on the clock. 

I just don't see the difference between 33 or 36 W's or even on up to the unlikely 39 W's.  I'm more interested in developing our many yute, figuring out which pieces fit (for now, around Mitch, Randle and Barrett), and finding a legit starting PG (either internally or external).

A 30+ W total is completely irrelevant to me.  And of course the closer to 30, the higher the draft pick.  So for me it's a wash.  A 2nd year coach is on the clock to produce a 36 W season in a development year? Sounds kind of dumb to me.  And yes, like those only-in-NY issues.

Fizz has a tough job coming up.
But I think really the pressure is on the front office to upgrade the talent and thin the herd and get some continuity, while evaluating the yute. Knix will be rife for an in-season trade.  Need to make it count.

Knix really need a starting caliber PG.  So Jr. Smith, Elf and Franc are on the clock.  Knix also need to unearth a 3&D wing.  This is where the league has gone and the Knix haven't.  Along with good 3-point shooters (we have journeyman Ellington and uh, Morris?  Knox?).  A dynamic scoring PG and a 3&D wing are keys in this league.  And 3-shooters.  Cupboards bare, papabear.  We do have a rim-protecting, lob smashing, perimeter defending C in Mitch.  (the other C option is a rim-defending 3-point shooter -- Ma Gasol, Brookez).

That's how teams are built these days.  That's what the competition has.
Of my 4-item checklist, Knix have filled one with a nice raw C talent (an astute but essentially lucky 2nd round find).

Otherwise, in a minor key, Knix probably also need to choose between Trier and Dot, before one or both have little value.  And between Portis and Morris.  And if Barrett and Knox can coexist longterm.
Title: So...
Post by: chipstern on September 28, 2019, 03:17:48 PM
Morris doesn't qualify as a 3&D at SF?

K

Likewise your "choice" between Portis and Morris baffles me. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 28, 2019, 05:34:30 PM
Morris?  Yeah, sort of.  He's a league average 3-shooter.  And more of a PF than switch-everything wing defender.  But yeah, he's more or less a 3&D F. 

Morris just signed for one year.
Knix have a $15M Y2 team option on Portis.
Likely we commit to one of them long term and let the other one go.  Portis much younger and fits better on the Mitch/RJB/Knox timeframe.
Title: Carlos
Post by: chipstern on September 30, 2019, 12:51:52 AM
Says 20.

_________...
Title: Wanna bet?
Post by: carlos123 on September 30, 2019, 01:16:49 AM
Quote from: chipstern on September 30, 2019, 12:51:52 AM
Carlos Says 20.

_________...


Chip says 36.

😂🤣
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on September 30, 2019, 09:46:08 AM
I say one more than Carlos.
Piss poor front office. Worst coach in the league. Worst owner in the league. Just too hard to overcome all that....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 30, 2019, 11:14:48 AM
20-26 wins is the floor.   27-32 wins is the ceiling.   I will pick a number between 20 and 32 eventually.   I'm not making my prediction yet.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 30, 2019, 12:51:45 PM
Lets talk about players, not wins

Coach won't be held to any standard - and is here for at least 2 more seasons
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 30, 2019, 12:54:04 PM
Along with Fizdale, the Knicks interviewed Mark Jackson, Mike Budenholzer, David Blatt, Mike Brown, Jerry Stackhouse, Mike Woodson, Kenny Smith, and James Borrego for their vacant head coaching position.



So, how did we do?  Lets keep this list in mind as we go forward
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on October 01, 2019, 11:32:57 AM
Good tank coach for the Anthony Edwards watch.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 01, 2019, 12:42:46 PM
https://twitter.com/RexChapman/status/1179063875913703425
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 01, 2019, 12:52:48 PM
Quote from: luee on October 01, 2019, 11:32:57 AM
Good tank coach for the Anthony Edwards watch.

LaMelo
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 01, 2019, 12:55:17 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 01, 2019, 12:52:48 PM
Quote from: luee on October 01, 2019, 11:32:57 AM
Good tank coach for the Anthony Edwards watch.

LaMelo

Jimmer? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 01, 2019, 01:36:56 PM
Different player
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 02, 2019, 04:11:38 PM
Iggy is interesting for what he can bring to the team and what he can do on the court. Peters is interesting because it’s not clear why on earth the team invited him to camp.

I’m at 33 wins at the moment, subject to review as preseason unfolds.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 02, 2019, 10:36:00 PM
Fac didnt like Peters' highlight tape

Heh

If only Frank could move like that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 03, 2019, 01:28:42 AM
Fac watched Peters in SL. In two years he’ll be G League ready, if he works really really really hard.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 04, 2019, 09:33:45 AM
Nice to see NBA action again

Pacers v Kings just starting, from Mumbai  (NBA TV)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 04, 2019, 11:13:14 AM
There's an upcoming pre-season game in Shanghai.
Lakers v BKY
October 10 2019

Maybe I'll try to score tickets.
Would be fun to see LeBron in person.
And how the Lakes look as a team . . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 04, 2019, 03:50:10 PM
FWIW:
Quote from: Zach Lowe
The Knicks seem to think they have a 35-win team that might approach .500. Fine. It's the East. Someone bad is sneaking into the potato sack race for No. 8. The bigs they added are all useful despite some positional overlap that isn't super convenient for Mitchell Robinson (or those who want to see Kevin Knox play more power forward, which I could take or leave). Most of the big-big pairings are semi-workable.

Wayne Ellington adds needed shooting, especially with both Reggie Bullock and Damyean Dotson dealing with some nicks. Maybe FIBA Frankie Smokes is a thing?

The guard and wing play -- the engine of most functional offenses -- is just so uncertain. Julius Randle might be New York's best shot creator, which is not on its face a bad thing. I just see a 27-30-win team, and most projection systems agree.

Basically the standard take.
Strange that he doesn't even mention Barrett.
Or the crowded roster.
maybe he's just not terribly interested in the team this year . . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 04, 2019, 05:25:16 PM
If we get pushed around by every big in our division, the twenties is probably where our win total lines up. If we can guard JE, MG, EK, & DJ without giving excessive help, we could hold our own and total wins well into the 30’s.

I think our perimeter players will ball out. What that gets us rests a lot on Mitch and Bobby.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 04, 2019, 08:23:19 PM
Lots of new faces and no real G leadership makes it hard to win a lot.
Plus the need to play the yute.

Knix have 7 FA's.
I wonder if that's a record.

I forget what low win total I said very early on.
Hopefully will see some pre-season and get a feel for the team.
Need to look at the schedule as well.
probably something like a 30W team +/- 2 or 3.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 04, 2019, 09:03:31 PM
Sub 25 wins if Frank is playing 18 minutes

Then up incrementally from there.

36-38 if he is sub 10.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 04, 2019, 09:25:59 PM
lol, I'm sure you f'd up above and meant to say Kevin.

If so, 100% with it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 04, 2019, 09:29:58 PM
Nice to see we already have our favorites.

Wayne Ellington is who I perceive to be our white flag. Iggy is our victory cigar, at least at first.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 04, 2019, 09:35:17 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on October 04, 2019, 09:25:59 PM
lol, I'm sure you f'd up above and meant to say Kevin.

If so, 100% with it.

More bullish on Knox than previously.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 05, 2019, 07:24:51 AM
Brogdon is not a PG.  Indiana seems ready to use him as their primary.  SAC looked as I figured - pretty darn good.

VLAD for Exec of the Year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 05, 2019, 11:27:23 AM
The Frog is a combo guard.
I assume he'll play a decent amount with another PG out there (Holiday or McConnell).
Brogdon is a super-smart player and makes plays.  My favorite NBAer.
Reminds me I need to catch INDy games this year.  Once Oladipo returns, things will fall into place.

SAC shored up their bench with CoryJoe, Ariza and Rich Holmes (A fave of mine).
But lost WCS.  THey'll compete with Minny for just missing the playoffs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 05, 2019, 01:46:24 PM
I think Dedmon replaces WCS just fine. He’s actually an upgrade in certain areas.

The west will be brutal and entertaining.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on October 05, 2019, 05:41:23 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 05, 2019, 07:24:51 AM
Brogdon is not a PG.  Indiana seems ready to use him as their primary.  SAC looked as I figured - pretty darn good.

VLAD for Exec of the Year.
One year that annual prediction might come true.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 05, 2019, 07:02:37 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 05, 2019, 11:27:23 AM
The Frog is a combo guard.
I assume he'll play a decent amount with another PG out there (Holiday or McConnell).


Not a whole lot, from how it looks and what they are saying

He's miscast.

Perfect example of "let bring these guiys in", without thought to what the mix will look like.  Just added guys willing to sign
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 05, 2019, 07:05:06 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on October 05, 2019, 05:41:23 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 05, 2019, 07:24:51 AM
Brogdon is not a PG.  Indiana seems ready to use him as their primary.  SAC looked as I figured - pretty darn good.

VLAD for Exec of the Year.
One year that annual prediction might come true.

Gotta love Vlade.
Title: Re: Off the open run
Post by: facilitatorn on October 06, 2019, 02:21:59 AM
The Knicks played with themselves in the Columbia gym. It was available all and in part on YouTube. Stuff w live sound may not be around any more.

We got the nice Morris brother. Marcus’s game is nice.

Not only can RJ ball, but he seems easy to ball with.

Mitch should give us 24-30 damn impactful minutes, though he still has a ton of room to grow.

Knox has come a long way in figuring out how to do his job.

I’m gonna start calling Trier “honey badger” cause, well you know...

I like Taj, Ju, and Bobby about the same. As supporting bigs, they are serious upgrades over the O’Quinns and Vonlehs of the world. The frontcourt (and maybe the only) guy we should be hunting shots for is Marcus Morris.

Elfrid and Frank are pressure guards who can make plays. DSJ has some serious catching up to do once his lower back heals.

Iggy will need to transform himself to be net effective. Fortunately we have both the depth and farm system set up to let him do that this year, for which the Knicks will be greatly rewarded by our press (hint, hint).

Ellington not that impressive.

Dot, DSJ, and Reggie B were all scratches.

Wooten also needs to grow his game. We should keep him on with the Wee Knicks if possible.

That midget point guard has gotten no better since summer league and the upgraded competition does him no favors. He’s a year away from being a year and three inches away. I forget his name, but Kiid likes him.

I like Portis Gibson Morris Barrett Payton together and Mitch JuRa Knox Frank Trier as groupings among the guys I’ve seen. Not saying Dot, DSj, and Reggie won’t have parts to play. Iggy and Ellington don’t need minutes except as stop gaps.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 06, 2019, 03:19:04 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 05, 2019, 07:02:37 PM
He's miscast.

Perfect example of "let bring these guys in", without thought to what the mix will look like.  Just added guys willing to sign

And you got all that off one pre-season blowout win?

I'll have to get a look at INDy, but my impression is that The Frog is the kind of player who fits on any team.  A winner who makes smart plays on both ends, is multi-positional, does what's needed.  Generally a smart, efficient young player like Frog doesn't become available, so INDy pounced.

The plan is to have Oladipo do most of the ballhandling, and run a two combo guard set with Dipo and Frogdon.  Every team will look a little off with their star out.  McC and Holiday will get PG minutes with Dipon out.
Get back to me after Dipo returns and gets in rhythm.

They'll figure out the lineup.
My concern is who is going to step up and be the #1 scorer with Dipo out?  Sabonis?  Turner doesn't seem to have that killer O instinct.  Because while I love me some Frog, he's a wonderful complementary player and certainly miscast as primary scorer.

Lots of folks wondering if Sabonis-Turner can coexist, as neither comfortable defending the perimeter.  Though they are hard to defend inside and on the boards too.  I think they can be fine, but if not, either one is eminently trade-able.

Otherwise the INDy bench looks awfully thin.
And speaking of, they drafted Goga Bitadze
McConnell/Holiday - Jer Lamb - McDermott - TJ Leaf - Bitadze
Lotta ofays for kiid to root for, but looks real young and shaky.

Lamb had a terrific season for CHA, displacing the erratic Monk.
McConjob is usually prepared and farily solid, though small.
Anyone else ready for double-digit minutes?

Looks like one of those teams that gets leads with the 1st unit and blows them with reserves.  making the stars have to play long minutes and expend extra energy while doing it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 06, 2019, 06:11:46 AM
The additions of Brogdon, Lamb, and Warren were good moves for Indy. I think they will mainly platoon Turner and Sabonis throughout games. They’ll miss Thad though. What’s the latest projection on VO returning?

It will be interesting to see who’s stuff actually works against players in different uniforms.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 06, 2019, 07:09:27 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 06, 2019, 06:11:46 AM
The additions of Brogdon, Lamb, and Warren were good moves for Indy.

Yes, but I think I'd rather have Bogdanovich than Lamb & Warren.

Quote
I think they will mainly platoon Turner and Sabonis throughout games. They’ll miss Thad though.

They don't have the personnel to platoon those two.
They have 3 frontcourtsmen: Warren - Sabonis - Turner
After that it's TJ Leafblower and Georgian Bitadze
Even with smallball, they'd have Warren at PF and Lamb at SF.
It's doable some.  And they'll have to experiment especially while Oladeepthroat is out.  But right now the plan is Warren starting SF, and Sabonis-Turner as Bigs.

The weak bench is going to hurt them all year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 06, 2019, 09:24:51 AM
Iggy will need to transform himself...

Que'?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 06, 2019, 09:27:41 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 06, 2019, 07:09:27 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 06, 2019, 06:11:46 AM
The additions of Brogdon, Lamb, and Warren were good moves for Indy.

Yes, but I think I'd rather have Bogdanovich than Lamb & Warren.

Quote
I think they will mainly platoon Turner and Sabonis throughout games. They’ll miss Thad though.

They don't have the personnel to platoon those two.
They have 3 frontcourtsmen: Warren - Sabonis - Turner
After that it's TJ Leafblower and Georgian Bitadze
Even with smallball, they'd have Warren at PF and Lamb at SF.
It's doable some.  And they'll have to experiment especially while Oladeepthroat is out.  But right now the plan is Warren starting SF, and Sabonis-Turner as Bigs.

The weak bench is going to hurt them all year.

Bottom line as well is that Turner and Sabonis have the talent to both be on the court 2/3+ of the minutes

Yes, they both started yesterday

Would love to see the NBA get back to PF/C combos rather than "positionless" 5 starters with small forwards masking as bigs and PFs as centers
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 06, 2019, 10:25:36 AM
Especially for the Knix, since we have Mitch and 4 PF's.
Mitch is pretty unique as C who can detonate perimeter shooters.
He's quick and long. 
Led the league in blocking 3-Pt shots by a wide margin, iirc.
 
I enjoyed GS smallball, with Dray at C.
But when it's just everybody chucks 3's and iffy D, then I just get bored.

A big issue for smallball is whether your guys can defend a position up and can hit 3's to make it hard for the opps Bigs to defend.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 06, 2019, 04:46:49 PM
https://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/27736398/racial-epithets-star-benched-coach-questioned-la-sparks-chaotic-finish

Wow - what an asshole GM

(looks like D Fish keeps his gig, somehow)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on October 07, 2019, 09:02:48 PM
RJ BARRET IMPRESSING!!!

That's how to silence me and the doubters like me lol

Love it
Title: Well Now...
Post by: chipstern on October 07, 2019, 10:47:07 PM
Some Nice Harbingers Of Things To Come...Things TO BUILD ON.

Ball Movement

Ball Sharing

Pace & Tempo

Treys

DEFENSE

Snark

Pops & Pups

RJ 17-7-3

Morris 17-7-2

Randle 11-7-7

Gibson 16-9-2

Knox 12-7-1

Ellington 12-3-1

Peyton 5-2-5

Ntilikina 9-5-3

Obviously don't want to read too much into it, but a win's a win, and team work is team work, even if it is against another bottom feeder such as the Wiz. 

Knox and Ntilikina making some steps forward.

Mitch took a jumper (he missed, but hold that thought, to go with those 5 points-7 boards-1 assist-1 steal-4 blocks]

RJ overcoming a chilly start by MANNING UP in the third quarter.  The kid is a work in progress, but HE MAKES PLAYS and knows how to play.  The jumper will come.  Hell the jumpers DID COME...two very impressive threes, to go with D, movement without the ball, good passes, hitting his spot.

Randle with 7 fucking assists. 

And Morris with 17 points in 19 minutes, scoring in side out side all around the town, then going Tommy 7 and channeling his Inner Rick Mahorn/Bob Gibson in bouncing a ball off a kid's head, which in baseball is called a message pitch. 

Anyway...

Hopefully we will really stink up the Garden on Friday so that Dawgy Bag & Pedro Pendejo can engorge their penile pencils, reach full satirical tumescence, and make with the money shots to advance their peevish narratives with witty ejaculations of snark jizz. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 07, 2019, 11:17:02 PM
Gibson looks spry. Not sure he got the memo about just being the old man mentor.

I've really liked RJ's confidence — evident even in the worse summer league games — part of his DNA.

Refreshing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 08, 2019, 01:38:20 AM
I think we can be really fun this year. Ellington has his virtues it turns out. We have some players. There is still a lot to tighten up on, but it was a good start.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 08, 2019, 04:44:06 AM
Lotta guys i never heard of on WASh.
But you don't pick your opponent.

Seems strange RJB played 39 mins.
Otherwise didn't see it, but good that some Knix looked like they had the knack.
Title: Re: Well Now...
Post by: lesterluv on October 08, 2019, 11:58:42 AM
Quote from: chipstern on October 07, 2019, 10:47:07 PM
...

Hopefully we will really stink up the Garden on Friday so that Dawgy Bag & Pedro Pendejo can engorge their penile pencils, reach full satirical tumescence, and make with the money shots to advance their peevish narratives witty ejaculations.

Yo Los,

I think he's busting on us! Why's he busting on us like that?


*** I think might have something to do with my aversion to FIZcheese°
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 08, 2019, 01:38:05 PM
Learn to stop worrying and love the Taj.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 08, 2019, 01:58:28 PM
Quote from: elephant on October 07, 2019, 11:17:02 PM
Gibson looks spry. Not sure he got the memo about just being the old man mentor.



Never was.   Forum was just wrong

Cool story on the telecast of how Taj went to Bernard King's elementary - PS 67 in Brooklyn - which is why he wears 67.  Also that he has always dreamed of being a Knickerbocker - and always talked about it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 08, 2019, 02:00:26 PM
Morris is really going to love being more of a top dog.  Has to keep his cool though (ejected just after half)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 08, 2019, 02:05:42 PM
This was a fun game, since we were down 2 guys and didnt have to ponder someone playing/not playing

No Portis, no Smith, no Morris for second half - allowed for more minutes, excepting Trier.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 08, 2019, 02:48:20 PM
Durant interview. Why young ballers aren't interested in the Knicks.

"I've seen the Knicks in the Finals, but kids coming up after me didn't see that. So that whole brand of the Knicks is not as cool as let's say the Golden State Warriors, or even the Lakers or the Nets now."

It's the insertion of the Nets that stopped me.

What a royal asshole.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 08, 2019, 02:54:44 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 08, 2019, 01:58:28 PM
Quote from: elephant on October 07, 2019, 11:17:02 PM
Gibson looks spry. Not sure he got the memo about just being the old man mentor.

Never was.   Forum was just wrong

I've said Taj would play a lot as he is our only real C after Mitch, who figures to be
either in foul trouble or ineffective often enough.  Also, that Taj is one of our better
trade chips as he could be a difference maker for a playoff team. 

Taj was on my shortlist of vets to add.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 08, 2019, 02:56:22 PM
No trades, unless a guy is earning pine time
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 08, 2019, 03:20:06 PM
Marcus Morris best player on floor last night, pre-ejection

HACHIMURA was second (if not Beal)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 08, 2019, 03:38:07 PM
Rui wasn’t the best rookie out there, though he’ll be a fine pro. Washington is going nowhere. I’m curious how we stack up against teams in our division.
Title: Re: Well Now...
Post by: carlos123 on October 08, 2019, 04:33:01 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on October 08, 2019, 11:58:42 AM
Quote from: chipstern on October 07, 2019, 10:47:07 PM
...

Hopefully we will really stink up the Garden on Friday so that Dawgy Bag & Pedro Pendejo can engorge their penile pencils, reach full satirical tumescence, and make with the money shots to advance their peevish narratives witty ejaculations.

Yo Los,

I think he's busting on us! Why's he busting on us like that?


*** I think might have something to do with my aversion to FIZcheese°

I don’t know. Maybe we are INCOMPRENDIDOS. But I hope he’s right and we’re wrong about da Knicks and even Phony Phizz.

PS. I’m out of town and haven’t seen any games.
Title: Re: Well Now...
Post by: chipstern on October 08, 2019, 06:45:28 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on October 08, 2019, 11:58:42 AM
Quote from: chipstern on October 07, 2019, 10:47:07 PM
...

Hopefully we will really stink up the Garden on Friday so that Dawgy Bag & Pedro Pendejo can engorge their penile pencils, reach full satirical tumescence, and make with the money shots to advance their peevish narratives witty ejaculations.

Yo Los,

I think he's busting on us! Why's he busting on us like that?


*** I think might have something to do with my aversion to FIZcheese°

If the condom fits, wear it...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 08, 2019, 06:46:37 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 08, 2019, 02:56:22 PM
No trades, unless a guy is earning pine time

Word
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 08, 2019, 07:12:07 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 08, 2019, 03:20:06 PM
Marcus Morris best player on floor last night, pre-ejection

HACHIMURA was second (if not Beal)

MM was impressive.

So was Hachimura, who has been getting widely dissed.  He is A PLAYA.  And is going to be an excellent pro.  Good pick. 

RJ is also a PLAYA. 

Obviously [OBVIOUSLY] his jumper is a work in progress, and his FT shooting is problematic. 

And yet. 

He was clanging iron like a cowbell percussionist in the first half...

And yet...

He hit a pair of treys in the third off of good ball movement, pure and sweet, with no hitch. 

His FT shooting was problematic at Duke, a curious kink in his armor, and was 1-3 in through three quarters.

AND YET...

At crunch time he cooly drained a pair to seal the deal. 

Szerbiak and Hahn were both enthusing about this 6'7" 19-year old having a mature NBA body. 

Impressive. 

And yet...

What caught my attention was his defensive focus and intensity, this having been adjudged another kink in his armor. 

K?

But what really caught my attention were all the little ways he MADE PLAYS, for himself and team mates, whether or not the fruit was falling: that beautiful back cut off of a Gibson pass; his court vision handling the ball; his nose for getting to the hoop and finishing. 

And given Durant's Knicks comments.

Free agents averse to NY?

Hey, knock yourself out. 

With Puppies like RJ, Knox and Mitch, let alone Frank and Dennis and Alonzo and Iggy, building purposefully through the draft, and a mix of young vets [Peyton, Randle, Portis] and graybeards [Morris, Gibson, Ellington], this incurable pom pom gurl is prepared to be patient. 

PS: Boy did Morris ever answer those questions about why we reached out.  An all-around inside outside gamer, who plays D and appears prepared to bring the snark and confer it to his teammates (though hopefully not in as dumb ass a manner as last night...you wanna send a message...call Western Union).  Taj appeared very spry, boarding and keying ball movement, hitting treys and playing D.  And Ellington showed some defensive presence as well...we knew he could hit treys.  Makes me wonder what Reggie  might bring.

PPS: As per the TRADE CHIP Narrative?  The free agent class is pretty weak next summer, and I am not sanguine about The Greek Freak's eagerness to play in New York.  Someone would have to offer something particularly sweet for trades to be on the table.  Hell, for Knox to bang against Morris, Mitch against Taj, and RJ against Ellington every day in practice, let alone those vets coming to play. 

PPPS: And as per Pendejo Pablo and his FIZZ SUCKS NARRATIVE, well, we shall see, but I saw some things last night which gave me pause, though perhaps being a tad early for out and out HOPE.  Playing TO WIN in a meaningless game, and in the final minutes, who was on the floor?  One graybeard in Ellington, the rest, all Puppies: Mitch, RJ, Frank and Knox.  That is to say, okay motherfuckers, let's see what it feels like to CLOSE OUT a game.

PPPPS: Again, a wounded roster of Wizards, and while RJ played Beal well, it was only for 16 minutes, but I thought Fizz's looks and rotations were interesting, the manner in which he has the team pushing the ball and playing with some pace, and My GOD, might we actually play DEFENSE this season?  Stay fucking tuned. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 08, 2019, 07:13:12 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 08, 2019, 02:00:26 PM
Morris is really going to love being more of a top dog.  Has to keep his cool though (ejected just after half)

WORD
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 09, 2019, 10:41:04 AM
I like Payton - I believe I have said a few times.  I also favor a pecking order rather than a SHARE of the position

The analysis has been - How will DS Jr react should he become a bench player (say.....playing 16-18 minutes to Elfrid's 30-32? 

Pending further review - but I say the only harm in finding out is that fans say we didnt get so much from the KP deal (-------to which I reply, "so fucking what?-------)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 09, 2019, 11:52:48 AM
We farked up, that's so f-in' what . . .

If we start Elfin, we're in trouble.
He's a quality backup PG.
I never got much of a read on Jr. Smith.
I didn't see him play with NYK much.
It'd be disappointing if Elf is our best PG.

I'd like to see Jr. Smith push the pace with Barrett flying along and Randle rumbling behind.  Mitch gets down court nicely too.
Early offense.  Get some easy buckets.  Randle is quite good on the break.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 09, 2019, 12:56:32 PM
It'd be disappointing if Elf is our best PG.


Why?  Because its his third team?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 09, 2019, 12:58:13 PM
Just saying....

keep an eye on Barrett's comfort level with Elfrid vs with Dennis.
Title: Dennis-Elfrid-Frank
Post by: chipstern on October 09, 2019, 02:34:48 PM
Seems like a good problem to have. 

"Uhh, Chip..."

OK, Okay...

Trey-Emmanuel-Frank

Yes, the memory lingers. 

Trey had a nice outing for Philly in their match-up with the Foreign Legion.  Emmanuel is sitting out with a thigh injury. 

As for this year's scrum? 

Elfrid is a pure PG. 

Dennis is a Westbrook in waiting [well...one can hope]

Frank is a hybrid 1-2-3. 

I could see lineups where we go three wings with Frank/Elfrid and Dennis and RJ. 

Knicks have a trad of multi-headed PGs: Harper and Anthony; Ward & Childs...

Not an advocacy, just saying: we have three young PGs with contrasting, possibly even complementary skill sets. 

And considering the kind of pace/tempo Fizz seems to be promulgating, and the kind of defensive aggression he is encouraging, we are going to be fouling a lot, guys are going to get gassed, and cats need to remain ready and pull for each other. 

Even more of a scrum at SG/Pseudo-SF-Big Wings. 

RJ ain't going to play 40 a might, but he is going to get burn. 

Fizz's deployment of Ellington last night was telling, and effective, on both defense and offense. 

Barrett-Ellington-Trier-Dotson-Bullock

Hell, Dotson and Bullock are both on the mend. 

With Robinson-Randle-Gibson-Portis-Morris we have the pieces to play big...

Knox-Iggy-RJ giving coverage at the 3 & 2. 

Kornet-Vonleh-Herzonja-Mudiay

or

Portis-Gibson-Morris-Peyton

Porzingis

or

Randle

Kanter

or

Robinson

Hardaway

or

Smith

WE SHALL SEE
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 09, 2019, 02:42:37 PM
Barrett, Randle and Morris will play many, MANY minutes
Title: Meanwhile...
Post by: chipstern on October 09, 2019, 02:54:43 PM
Kevin Knox didn’t practice for the Knicks today because of a strained right calf. Bobby Portis and Dennis Smith Jr. were limited in practice. Wayne Ellington was out because of illness.

Friday is a long way off, but still, we do not lack for eager beavers. 

Someone sits, someone gets up off the pine. 

Pleased to hear that the league let Malevolent Morris float on his Rick Mahorn gesture. 

Message delivered...let's leave it at that. 

I do believe the motivation to be THE MAIN MAN (well, A Main Man, along with Randle) will engender at bit of restraint with MM, who demonstrated an effective inside/outside game, and that he could put the ball on the floor, and create his own shot off of the dribble. 

https://www.espn.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/6462/marcus-morris (https://www.espn.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/6462/marcus-morris)

And if you look at MM's stats and his evolution over his first nine years in the league, over the past two seasons in Boston, playing like 27 minutes a night, he demonstrated a significant uptick on FT% [84.4] and rebounding [6.1].

His previous two seasons in Detroit, when playing starter's minutes, he averaged 2.5 an 2.0 assists. 

Nice all-around game for a 6'9" [pending sneaker-less height correction], 235 pounder, even as a graybeard who just turned 30 on September 2.  Given extra responsibility as a tone setter and bell cow, as per Coach Fizdale, MM might still be maturing, and could just have a chance to really blossom in the Garden. 

One and done?

We shall see. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 09, 2019, 02:56:57 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 09, 2019, 02:42:37 PM
Barrett, Randle and Morris will play many, MANY minutes

Got THAT Right. 

I am particularly keen to see Julius match up with Kristaps in the Garden.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 09, 2019, 03:42:26 PM
Not me.  No extra meaning to that.

Title: Re: Meanwhile...
Post by: Pharoah on October 09, 2019, 04:09:14 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 09, 2019, 02:54:43 PM
Kevin Knox didn’t practice for the Knicks today because of a strained right calf. Bobby Portis and Dennis Smith Jr. were limited in practice. Wayne Ellington was out because of illness.

Friday is a long way off, but still, we do not lack for eager beavers. 

Someone sits, someone gets up off the pine. 

Pleased to hear that the league let Malevolent Morris float on his Rick Mahorn gesture. 

Message delivered...let's leave it at that. 

I do believe the motivation to be THE MAIN MAN (well, A Main Man, along with Randle) will engender at bit of restraint with MM, who demonstrated an effective inside/outside game, and that he could put the ball on the floor, and create his own shot off of the dribble. 

https://www.espn.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/6462/marcus-morris (https://www.espn.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/6462/marcus-morris)

And if you look at MM's stats and his evolution over his first nine years in the league, over the past two seasons in Boston, playing like 27 minutes a night, he demonstrated a significant uptick on FT% [84.4] and rebounding [6.1].

His previous two seasons in Detroit, when playing starter's minutes, he averaged 2.5 an 2.0 assists. 

Nice all-around game for a 6'9" [pending sneaker-less height correction], 235 pounder, even as a graybeard who just turned 30 on September 2.  Given extra responsibility as a tone setter and bell cow, as per Coach Fizdale, MM might still be maturing, and could just have a chance to really blossom in the Garden. 

One and done?

We shall see.

(https://media3.giphy.com/media/KDPTsfyhGgIOKTElVa/source.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 09, 2019, 04:16:48 PM
Yeah..... have to think the league dropped the ball on this one

And that this isnt over between Morris and Anderson.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 09, 2019, 04:18:04 PM
Would love to see Fiz sit MM a game - let him know that Celtics shit dont play here
Title: KP Vs. JR
Post by: chipstern on October 09, 2019, 04:31:22 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 09, 2019, 03:42:26 PM
Not me.  No extra meaning to that.

Well now...

Kristaps, Lee, Hardaway, Burke

for

Smith, Matthews, Jordan, Two #1 Picks. 

Basically Smith and Two #1 picks for KP. 

Lee & Hardaway & Matthews & Jordan

for

Randle, Morris, Portis, Gibson, Ellington, Bullock, Peyton

Kristaps wanted OUT. 

Randle wanted IN. 

So yeah, it has considerable resonance for moi. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 09, 2019, 04:44:02 PM
Lee & Hardaway & Matthews & Jordan


and Kornet
and Mudiay
and Kanter
and Ellenson

Yeah, I think we should be better.  As the next year off 17-65 should be.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 09, 2019, 06:28:42 PM
https://twitter.com/RexChapman/status/1182008284309594115
Title: Re: KP Vs. JR
Post by: lesterluv on October 09, 2019, 08:32:08 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 09, 2019, 04:31:22 PM
1 Picks. 



Kristaps wanted OUT. 

Randle wanted IN. 

So yeah, it has considerable resonance for moi. 

Do not get all the animus (or any of that math). You're buried neck-deep in a trench filled with steaming shit, hell yeah you're gonna be happy to walk into a 5-star hotel room for a shower and a clean bathrobe. Why the hate? Any way, it matters not, and the Latvian gangster is a game-leading by a mile +16 in his first half of basketball in 18 months or so.

*** [and of course Randle wanted in, his last two teams slammed the door on his ass. DOLAN-CHECK??? BOOOOOYAH!]


****This team is what it is but don't hate on players who are wayyyyyyyy smarter than you.
Title: Re: KP Vs. JR
Post by: lesterluv on October 09, 2019, 08:45:37 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on October 09, 2019, 08:32:08 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 09, 2019, 04:31:22 PM
1 Picks. 



Kristaps wanted OUT. 

Randle wanted IN. 

So yeah, it has considerable resonance for moi. 

Do not get all the animus (or any of that math). You're buried neck-deep in a trench filled with steaming shit, hell yeah you're gonna be happy to walk into a 5-star hotel room for a shower and a clean bathrobe. Why the hate? Any way, it matters not, and the Latvian gangster is a game-leading by a mile +16 in his first half of basketball in 18 months or so.

*** [and of course Randle wanted in, his last two teams slammed the door on his ass. DOLAN-CHECK??? BOOOOOYAH!]


****This team is what it is but don't hate on players who are wayyyyyyyy smarter than you.

********** you live in New York and have the misfortune of being a knick fan, so do I, but to imply anyone else should have loyalty to pro sports worst cesspool is idiocy..glorifying the bunch of leftovers who signed on after every single A-lister took a sniff and said fthis... lol, the players who wanted 2 be Knicks wanted to be knicks cause nobody else was gonna give the sam e bank...this team spits on its fans, player, former players...only an absolute drooling jackass is talking about loyalty or wants to be here or any of that shit...you like the trade & the aftermath for basketball reasons or u dont..that other shit? so stupid it makes my brain hurt


****** meanwhile, how about my m'fn Cardinals?
Title: Kristaps
Post by: chipstern on October 09, 2019, 09:51:10 PM
Dear Pendejo.

I do not hate KP

Just saw some clips of him on EPSN, and he was moving fluidly and looked like a motherfucker. 

He wanted out of Dodge, and really didn't leave us any appetizing options. 

You have lemons, you make lemonade. 

You have a bowl of piss, well...

Randle wanted to be here.  Plain and simple.  KP is not a villain.  He is a fucking rival. 

Frankly, my affection for you and Dawg notwithstanding, the narrative you are promulgating is so obsessively dark, I wonder what motivation you have to even check in, ostensibly as KNICKS fans. 

Fizz sucks.  Our free agents are a buch of cast off losers. 

Check. 

I suppose when George Steinbrenner ruled the roost at Yankee Stadium, through both thick and thin, you were equally even handed. 

But of course, by your lights, I am a Libtard Snowflake, lapping up the fake news, while you and Dawg do your best Tucker Carlson/Sean Hannity schtickla standing for truth, justice and the American way.

I am humbled to bask in your penumbra of insight and even handed analytics. 

Meanwhile. 

Bulls are looking very tough and coherent, and a nice mix of players.  Really playing the Pelicans very physical.  Like that big PG from NC with the immense Afro, what's his name.  Coby?  He is a blur. 

Zion is scary.   No surprise there. 

Meanwhile, looking healthy, and no longer dealing with the fucking Lakers and or being shadowed by his lunatic fucking father, Lonzo appears to have found a nice soft landing zone.  Some really sweet looks.   

The Knicks.  Happy to have some hoops.  Happy to have something to root for.  I see possibility.  You see a carnal house. 

There are always the Nyets. 

Knock yourselves out. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 09, 2019, 09:53:06 PM
We signed smart talented players who compete physically for near market rates. No softies. No plodders. No prima donnas. More mainstays than castoffs to a man. I like our new mix. Canthe coaches get them operating near their potential? If so, we’ Have some fun.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 09, 2019, 09:59:02 PM
KP is not a rival.

Just a dude in Dallas.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 09, 2019, 11:05:59 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 09, 2019, 02:42:37 PM
Barrett, Randle and Morris will play many, MANY minutes

I like that.  Add Mitchell to that grouping and i'll be very happy.  The question of PG will be answered with whoever has the hot hand.  I don't see a problem with Elf and Dennis competing to see who has the best chemistry with that foursome.  And its not like the one who sits at first won't play. 

And injuries will dictate minutes undoubtedly.  Youngsters seem to be more fragile these days than 20 years ago.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 10, 2019, 01:11:45 AM
24 minutes for Mitch

And 66 games
Title: PP#1
Post by: carlos123 on October 10, 2019, 04:17:47 AM
Quote from: chipstern on October 09, 2019, 09:51:10 PM
Dear Pendejo.

I do not hate KP

Just saw some clips of him on EPSN, and he was moving fluidly and looked like a motherfucker. 

He wanted out of Dodge, and really didn't leave us any appetizing options. 

You have lemons, you make lemonade. 

You have a bowl of piss, well...

Randle wanted to be here.  Plain and simple.  KP is not a villain.  He is a fucking rival. 

Frankly, my affection for you and Dawg notwithstanding, the narrative you are promulgating is so obsessively dark, I wonder what motivation you have to even check in, ostensibly as KNICKS fans. 

Fizz sucks.  Our free agents are a buch of cast off losers. 

Check. 

I suppose when George Steinbrenner ruled the roost at Yankee Stadium, through both thick and thin, you were equally even handed. 

But of course, by your lights, I am a Libtard Snowflake, lapping up the fake news, while you and Dawg do your best Tucker Carlson/Sean Hannity schtickla standing for truth, justice and the American way.

I am humbled to bask in your penumbra of insight and even handed analytics. 

Meanwhile. 

Bulls are looking very tough and coherent, and a nice mix of players.  Really playing the Pelicans very physical.  Like that big PG from NC with the immense Afro, what's his name.  Coby?  He is a blur. 

Zion is scary.   No surprise there. 

Meanwhile, looking healthy, and no longer dealing with the fucking Lakers and or being shadowed by his lunatic fucking father, Lonzo appears to have found a nice soft landing zone.  Some really sweet looks.   

The Knicks.  Happy to have some hoops.  Happy to have something to root for.  I see possibility.  You see a carnal house. 

There are always the Nyets. 

Knock yourselves out.

Dear Positive Pussy #1,

I have no idea what you’re talking about.

I never expressed any particular views about KP’s departure as I don’t have any. Business decision and good luck to all parties involved.

And I think Phony Phizz is a bad coach and we’ll win about 20 games. Like I said later, I hope you’re right  and I’m wrong.

Now, for my terrible sins you want to send me to Nyetland? I don’t think so. I don’t do Russian, I leave that to Rudy and his client.

PS. I love you too 💓
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 10, 2019, 08:19:29 AM
The Russian isn't in Brooklyn any more.  Made his $$ and flew the coop before upcoming NBA BS/strife could eat him up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 10, 2019, 08:23:14 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 09, 2019, 04:44:02 PM
Lee & Hardaway & Matthews & Jordan


and Kornet
and Mudiay
and Kanter
and Ellenson

Yeah, I think we should be better.  As the next year off 17-65 should be.

My bad, Chip - I read that totally wrong.   But should be interesting seeing how Kornet meshes in CHI and of course Enes, who we see way more than KP this year.

Mudiay?  I have to admit I have lost him.  Ellenson with Nets?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 10, 2019, 09:40:50 AM
Path to Kemba+Horfoed was open for Celts... kind of...

https://sports.yahoo.com/al-horford-kemba-walker-combo-023810237.html
Title: Re: Kristaps
Post by: lesterluv on October 10, 2019, 10:24:21 AM
Quote from: chipstern on October 09, 2019, 09:51:10 PM
Frankly, my affection for you and Dawg notwithstanding, the narrative you are promulgating is so obsessively dark, I wonder what motivation you have to even check in, ostensibly as KNICKS fans. 

:) Good morning, Chipster! You see, I don't think there is anything particularly dark about my narrative.

I consider it realism. objectivity. eyes wide open. woke:)

There has been very little basketball played at MSG for nearly two decades. Fact. All of last year's objectives failed. Fact. Time for another u-turn. Fact.

So I object quite strongly to any narratives that demonize those players smart enough to know that if winning basketball is to be part of their career, odds are they will have to EXPERIENCE it elsewhere. You only have one career, and it's just an achilles tear away from ending in a split second.

I like players who care about winning first. I like players who care about basketball first. Those are the guys you want on your team. (thus my longstanding anima toward the fatballoon known as Melo, he didn't give a rats ass about anything but the brand).  ALL OF THOSE GUYS CHOSE ELSEWHERE LAST SUMMER FOR DAMN GOOD REASONS...

That said, I don't have anything against the current bunch and am looking forward to some much more entertaining game than last year, but they ain't heroes, just the latest group to enjoy the Dolan cash card.

There's already plenty mythmaking going on (no prima donnas? Well didn't lil Djr. go AWOL ON RICK CARLYLE cause Luka Doncic stole his pretty party? no softies? 10 pounds in the gym changes the essentially flaccid nature of Kevin Knox? -- lol, that summer league Zion rip was the vid of summer. One cartoon preseason headbounce makes Marcus Morris the new Oakley meets Mahorn? We could go on and on, but whatever, I'll put realism aside and buy in for the ride.


Positive Pussy, HERE SIR, I'M IN!

Title: no softies...lol, lol, lol
Post by: lesterluv on October 10, 2019, 10:29:40 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWYR1OtBkcU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWYR1OtBkcU)




**** and in case anybody accuses me of cherry-picking, last year I watched enough minutes of this definitely not cooked al dente motherfucker to have completed a first course in the Magyar tongue should I have chosen to spend my time more frootfully.
Title: Nyets
Post by: carlos123 on October 10, 2019, 10:51:23 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 10, 2019, 08:19:29 AM
The Russian isn't in Brooklyn any more.  Made his $$ and flew the coop before upcoming NBA BS/strife could eat him up.

I know the Russian sold or is selling his share.

Still the Nyets in my book. Still a Knick fan, hoping to outlast Dolan.
Title: Dawg Tired
Post by: chipstern on October 10, 2019, 12:55:00 PM
I FEEL YOU.

The more things change the more they stay the same. 

By all means, don't abandon your principles. 

Worth noting that well before Jimmy The Jizz, there was plenty of DumbAss awash in the Knicks Surf. 

Off the top of my head?

Letting BERNARD walk.

Letting XAVIER walk.

Letting RILEY walk. 

Running EWING out of town.

Trading CLYDE. 

Trading #1 PICKS that turned into, oh, Pippen and ______.   

Dolan is Dolan.  What can I say.  I sat next to him at the Cream concert in October 2005.  He'd just had open heart surgery.  I wished him well, and allowed as how I was happy to see Isiah on board. 

"We'll see," sayeth the Lord. 

So for me, it's a new season, and I LOVE HOOPS. 

So starved, I watched non-Knicks last night, and I mean, ZION?  Holy shit.  Zak.  Coby.  Etcetera. 

Don't like Fizz?

Fair enough.  I HATED Mike Woodson.  Thought he got a free ride and credit that belonged to Jason Kidd.  Did not like the way he treated players.  His post-Kidd give it to melo, Give It To Melo, GIVE IT TO MELO Offense.  A douche.  I like the way Fizz relates to his charges.  I liked that Veteran Hospital visit the other day. 

Last season was a failure.  Well, we only won 17 games. 

We haven't seen what Fizz can do with an actual roster not made up mostly of Charity Cases.  Am not drawing ANY FUCKING CONCLUSIONS from one fucking exhibition game, but I thought his 10-Man rotation was interesting.  He appears to have already anointed Morris & Randle, Gibson & Ellington, Peyton, as LEADERS.  I like that.  They not only stand for leadership and playing the right way, but for COMPETITION.  You want this floor time.  Hear I am, Kid.   

We bailed on Fizz's projects?

Well, Kornet, Vonleh, Mudiay, Burke, Herzonja all got picked up.

Yet another PLAN Z?

Gibson, Portis, Randle, Morris, Ellington, Bullock, Peyton. 

We replaced Pups with Pros, and kept the best of our youth.  We already see evidence how our vets with push our pups. 

Steve and Scott, after a questionable TIMMY signing, appear to have learned from their mistake.  Their deployment of cap space speaks to that.  They paid market rates on short term deals, giving themselves flexibility, and some incentive to our vets to max their value either for 2020-2021 or a soft landing space. 

I thought they made the best out of two shitty situations Phil Jackson left us, in Melo and Kristaps. 

Free Agent Destination? 

We have all of our draft picks, and a stock pot of talent.  Second tier?  I think some people undervalued Randle and Morris and Peyton.  Yourself included.  Randle dumped by teams.  Yeah, the idiot Lakers.  Pelicans moving on with Zion in place of Julius, Lonzo in place of Elfrid.  And we can see why the Spurs were hot on MM. 

Anyway, for me.

FOR ME...not speaking for anyone else. 

A team, AND A COACH, I can root for, and some vestigial semblance of a plan, least ways the patience to nurture youth and let things play out OVER TIME. 

With the dire winds of winter, come reflection, and ennui, and cold, Cold, COLD...

And hoops.

KNICKS HOOPS. 

Hopefully, on some level. 

39-43.

So let it be written.

So let it be done. 
Title: Here's How Far I'm Willing to Go...
Post by: lesterluv on October 10, 2019, 01:23:59 PM
in honor of a new season, the 21st consecutive fresh start, and my new status as PozPussConfirmed.

Despite more than 100 things that rub me the wrong way like:

a needless antagonism toward talented tall white boys from Europe demonstrated across multiple franchises....

ridiculous lip service toward things like defense and team ball and then giving endless run to those who displayed them least and endless bench to those who displayed them most...

some of the absolute worst end game strategy and substitution I have ever encountered and that includes 4th grade coaches at my local elementary school's league....


I am gonna assume that it was all in service of some plan dictated by his paymasters above as part of the ludicrous & destructive 2018-2019 tank program.

And am gonna give FizWhiz a complete clean slate for 2019-20, blank white piece of paper, no past prejudices allowed...you've got players, let's see something.

GO FIZDALE


**** Los, let me know if you are PPC as well and I'll get the new team sweatsuits ordered.

**** yup, I'm even giving Kevin "wouldn't know what to do in a basketball game if the hanging jumbotron fell on his head and woke him up" Knox a clean slate. Kevin Mfn Knox. Gets a clean slate. Fresh stack of typing paper. 120 pages. Just like Chester Himes used to do. Go write a book, Kevin. That's how motherfucking positive pussy I am. Thursday, October 10, 2019, 1:37 p.m. the clock resets now.

****** Sufi Avenger gets a clean slate!!! You bet!!!

******** No clean slate for PriKE. Was just TOOOOOO stoooopid last year. Has to wait til 20-21.
Title: Fizz
Post by: chipstern on October 10, 2019, 01:49:43 PM
For what it's worth.

Fizdale had Ben Wallace at practice today as a guest mentor. 

PS: Again, Dawg, no reason to align yourself with the Dark Slide Of The Farce.

PPS: Let's see how things work out.  I'd say December 15 represents a good point at which to take stock of Fizz on a scale of 1-to-11, and decide whom must be schlepped out to Gulag HoopsHump or simply consigned to the pine. 

PPPS: Elfrid Peyton may just be the best thing that could possibly have happened to Denis & Frank. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 10, 2019, 03:48:48 PM
Between them Elfrid and Wayne have every skill and habit our young guards need to absorb to be successful. Neither is a great athlete and both might be our worst athlete at their respective positions, but both are athletic enough to hang, so no Billups, Kidd, Calderon problem hiding them defensively.

I’m still curious about what Bobby brings to the table as I think Kid isn’t so far off on Mitch’s availability.

There might not be a huge amount of role left for Dot and Bullock when they get healthy.

Knox was our most consistent player passing the ball ahead on the break vs. the Wiz. Just one game, but an aspect to keep an eye on.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 10, 2019, 03:57:58 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 10, 2019, 08:23:14 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 09, 2019, 04:44:02 PM
Lee & Hardaway & Matthews & Jordan


and Kornet
and Mudiay
and Kanter
and Ellenson

Yeah, I think we should be better.  As the next year off 17-65 should be.

My bad, Chip - I read that totally wrong.   But should be interesting seeing how Kornet meshes in CHI and of course Enes, who we see way more than KP this year.

Mudiay?  I have to admit I have lost him.  Ellenson with Nets?

Mudiay is with the JAZZ. 
Title: Knicks positioned do well in worst case China-boycott scenario
Post by: Kam on October 10, 2019, 04:03:07 PM
https://www.sny.tv/knicks/news/how-knicks-2020-offseason-could-be-impacted-by-nbas-china-controversy/311124586 (https://www.sny.tv/knicks/news/how-knicks-2020-offseason-could-be-impacted-by-nbas-china-controversy/311124586)

In other words: If a Tsunami hits your area - you may benefit from those drowning around you.
Title: Elfrid & Wayne
Post by: chipstern on October 10, 2019, 04:04:14 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 10, 2019, 03:48:48 PM
Between them Elfrid and Wayne have every skill and habit our young guards need to absorb to be successful. Neither is a great athlete and both might be our worst athlete at their respective positions, but both are athletic enough to hang, so no Billups, Kidd, Calderon problem hiding them defensively.

I’m still curious about what Bobby brings to the table as I think Kid isn’t so far off on Mitch’s availability.

There might not be a huge amount of role left for Dot and Bullock when they get healthy.

Knox was our most consistent player passing the ball ahead on the break vs. the Wiz. Just one game, but an aspect to keep an eye on.

Some people are great athletes. 

Others, are good players.  They just understand how to get the job done.  I was pleasantly surprised by Peyton and Ellington's defensive focus and tenacity, particularly Ellington's, as I had mis-read him as more of a one trick pony. 

Anyone here remember that Wayne Ellington was part of the "haul" in Phool Jackoff's Tyson Chandler trade, only Phool waived him without even taking a sniff. 

PS: Elfrid has already raised the bar in just a few practices and one pre-season game; Peyton and Nitilikina's defensive skillset will likely give Fizz pause when passing out minutes.  DENNIS SMITH, please pick up the HOSTILITY PHONE.  Your floor time is calling. 
Title: Big Ben At Knicks Practice [Preaching About The No Star Champion Pistons]
Post by: chipstern on October 10, 2019, 07:11:15 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EGiHrQqXkAEjHnf?format=jpg&name=900x900)

Scott Perry was a member of the 2004 Championship team's front office. 
Title: MM Doubles Down
Post by: chipstern on October 10, 2019, 07:32:40 PM
Marcus Morris: Never was a fan of doing what was cool! I love being a Knick!!! Feeling right at home – via Twitter MookMorris2
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 10, 2019, 07:56:34 PM
Wondering if Bobby Taj Jules Mook RJ wouldn't be a strangely effective lineup. It would need stellar rotational efforts from Portis and Randle to work, a problem somewhat mitigated by having Taj to play center field.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 11, 2019, 01:47:34 PM
Dennis Smith Jr. (back) is doubtful to play in Friday's preseason game against the Wizards.

DSJ was again limited at Thursday's practice, so we'd be shocked to see him take the floor tomorrow night. All this time off is hurting him in his pursuit of the starting PG gig, which he appears to be ceding to Elfrid Payton. Smith Jr. has disappointed us plenty of times in the past, and him being in danger of losing his starter gig to Payton is telling.



DSJ out.  Knox, Ellington and Dotson out as well

PORTIS will play.  May see Kadeem Allen.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on October 11, 2019, 07:51:01 PM
Wiz are woeful, but good for the team to build some confidence.

Like the energy, ball movement and confidence.

RJ another strong start
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on October 11, 2019, 07:51:17 PM
Gotta work on the J though
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 11, 2019, 09:00:00 PM
Well....

bad info on Ellington, who is in fact getting minutes tonight

Solid bench guy
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 11, 2019, 11:31:01 PM
When they said bring back the 90’s I didn’t think they’d start with the offense.

We might have really missed Kevin Knox tonight. That or the Wiz are just that much better without Hachimura.
Title: Dawg Gone
Post by: chipstern on October 12, 2019, 09:25:54 AM
Well, that was bizarre. 

For most of the first quarter the Knicks looked like an energized and coherent playoff contender on both sides of the ball. 

Then, just for spite, to deflate the spirits of two of my recently recruited positive pussies, they had an acid flash back to this past spring. 

(http://www.awesomestories.com/images/user/2ff61fc9a685fd0d870347af19c8b464.jpg)

What exactly is it in the Knicks DNA, that no matter the coach or the personnel, that their opponents simply seem to rain threes on them like the Soviets unloading a barrage of Katyusha rockets on the Wehrmacht at the Gates Of Berlin, circa April, 1945. 

Things seemed to deflate when Frank came on in the second quarter.  Then, oddly, they made a late run when Frank came on in the fourth. 

Wiz dared Peyton to score, and he wilted at the challenge.  Dennis Smith will most def get an opportunity to make a case for his ability to rudder the offense, and to create his own.  Elfird, Dennis, Frank?  How they are deployed will probably be transactional, as per match-ups, hot hands, defensive assignments.  Will take a while to sort out. 

Mitchell reverted to his rookie form, with lots of goofy fouls. 

Morris was effective throughout, while our other bigs, Gibson, Portis and Randle, were up and down. 

RJ a hot start, going to the rack, then a clang fest, then a late couplet of sweet looking three.  Go figure.  And FTs again a concern.  Oh, and Beal seemed highly motivated against him and whomever the Knicks tossed his way.  Impressive performer.  [PS: Time for BoD to mock me for opposing proposed fantasy trades for BB, as if the Wiz would EVER consider moving him to a division rival, let alone THIS DIVISION RIVAL.  Anyway Bo, point taken.]

Trier had some moments, and looked to create opportunities for his team mates, as well as hoist more threes.  However, like Taj and his mates, an offensive foul fest. 

Garden fans on an emotional roller coaster, given how dynamic we looked early on, and both the depth of despair which shortly thereafter ensued.  Was impressed by how motivated the Wiz were, and who good their stretch bigs Wagner and Bertrans [sic?] looked. 

When the Knicks' lack of familiarity with each other became terminal on offense, as Breen and Clyde pointed out, seemed to effect their D. 

Hawks next on Wednesday.  Like the Wiz and ourselves, a youngish team on the re-make. 

We shall see. 

PS: Looking forward to Pharoah's breakdowns of our breakdowns. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 12, 2019, 03:39:41 PM
At the advice of my lawyer — Rudolph Giuliani — I will not be watching the game, which I had to DVR.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 12, 2019, 04:39:32 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on October 12, 2019, 03:39:41 PM
At the advice of my lawyer — Rudolph Giuliani — I will not be watching the game, which I had to DVR.

(https://media3.giphy.com/media/8noSCCaJMf2HC/source.gif)

The first quarter should suffice, like watching a porn film in reverse, beginning with the money shot, and rewinding to some episodes of foreplay gone terribly awry. 

PS: My understanding that as a puppy, Rudy had a tryout with the Washington Generals, not as a ballplayer mind you, but to be deployed as sideshow clown during half time festivities--hit the target and he falls into a pool of water. 
Title: Ooops...Pre-Season Roundup
Post by: chipstern on October 12, 2019, 05:24:17 PM
Anthony Davis is surely a Top 10 NBA player.  A remarkable physical specimen and talent. 

He is only 26, and over the course of 34.6 minutes a game, he has averaged 23.7 ppg on .517% shooting, with a .795 FT%, with career averages of 10.5 boards, 2.1 assists, 1.4 steals and 2.4 blocks.  YIKES. 

The only thing that has ever held him back is a proclivity for injuries. 

In 2016-17 and 2017-18, he topped out at 75 games, and averaged 28 points a game. 

Last season, before shutting down, he only logged 56 games. 

His first four seasons: 64, 67, 68, 61.

I've always been a huge fan, and as he has NOT to my knowledge re-upped with the Lakers, he could be a free agent next summer, and his agent has made slurping sounds about the Knicks. 

I'm not buying into that mirage, but still...

Meanwhile, the Mavs' putative all-star PF Kristaps PORZINGIS, faced off against the Bucks all-world PF Giannis ANTETOKOUNMPO. 

WARNING: Not hating, just reporting.

KP clocked in with 11-5-3.

The Greek Freak was 34-11-4. 

KP was 2-9 from trey. 

The Greek Freak was 3-4. 

If Giannis, like Simmons and Ball, players long known for highly suspect jump shots, starts hitting from trey with consistency, well, human sacrifice might be the only viable response, a chicken at the very least, from NBA opponents. 

Look for Milwaukee vs Philly in the NBA finals, least ways, to be in on the final scrum. 

Meanwhile, the Mavs Donic tallied 27-7-2, with 10-11 FTs and 5-8 from trey. 

The Pelicans.  Zion ain't Lyin'

But Nickeil Alexander-Walker, a 6'5" combo guard from, Virginia Tech, was 7-9 from the field versus the Jazz: 4-5 from trey, 4-4 FTs, with 4 assists and 2 boards in SIXTEEN MINUTES.  Yikes.    Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, the up and coming combo guard traded to OKC in the Paul George trade, is his cousin. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 12, 2019, 06:01:55 PM
Fiz's downfall will be that he wants to play everybody.  He feels he can help all their careers - and that this is his job

Wrong!!!
Title: Rotations?
Post by: chipstern on October 12, 2019, 07:21:19 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 12, 2019, 06:01:55 PM
Fiz's downfall will be that he wants to play everybody.  He feels he can help all their careers - and that this is his job

Wrong!!!

Mmmmmmm, a dispiriting three quarters of retrograde for sure...

But I don't think Fizz and the coaching staff have sorted things out yet. 

Last year MIGHT HAVE BEEN about looking out for players' with their careers (Mudiay springs to mind), and trying to ascertain which Pups were keepers. 

But this year? 

Goals are decidedly different. 

I presume your comment is a thinly veiled Snark Bark aimed in the relative direction of Frank "Long Arms" Ntilikina, and a thumbs up for your previously stated conclusion that Elfrid should be getting 30 minutes a night and Dennis 18 off the bench. 

Your lack of any positive support for and objections to French Frank moving forward, have been duly noted. 

Only one game, but worth noting that Peyton was a -24 in 26 minutes, Frank a +0 in 19. 

Likewise, Ellington a -8 in 22 minutes, Trier a +1 in 17. 

In Monday's game?

Elfrid a -11 in 25 minutes, Ntilikina a +16 in 23 minutes. 

So?

So WHAT. 

But again, I don't see Fizz after two pre-season games trying to "play everyone" rather to see what he's got, and which combinations will give him the best chance to win. 

Clearly there is a mandate to develop youth. 

But there is also a mandate TO WIN.  Forward progress. 

ROTATION PROJECTIONS
1-5
6-10
11-13
14-15

Robinson-Randle-Morris-RJ-?????

Portis-Gibson-Knox-?????-?????

????? = Ellington/Trier

????? = Peyton-Smith-Nitlikina

??? = Dotson-Bullock-???

?? = Brazdeikis-?
 
Pre-season is an opportunity to give everyone on the 15 man roster some daylight, whereas 11-15 might very well be nailed to the pine during the regular season, injuries notwithstanding. 

So no, I don't think Fizz is inclined to play everybody, but trying to arrive at a functional 10 man rotation, while keeping 11-13 engaged. 

Are you more inclined towards an 8 man rotation?

Not sure that is feasible given the kind of pace and pressing D which Fizz ostensibly wants to deploy. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 12, 2019, 08:07:29 PM
No

Not that at all

Frank's option wont be picked up - and he goes on the infamous trade heap this forum already has created

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 12, 2019, 08:11:53 PM
I dont think Robinson needs to start
Title: Predictions
Post by: chipstern on October 12, 2019, 08:26:47 PM
No, Robinson does NOT need to start. 

Might be better on a second unit with Gibson and Knox up front. 

Knicks not picking up Ntilikina? 

Mmmmmm....you a betting man? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 12, 2019, 08:30:09 PM
Robinson-Randle-Morris-RJ-?????

Portis-Gibson-Knox-?????-?????

????? = Ellington/Trier

????? = Peyton-Smith-Nitlikina

??? = Dotson-Bullock-???

?? = Brazdeikis-?



Well done

Trier and Frank are ELEVEN and TWELVE, not 9 and 10
Title: Re: Predictions
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 12, 2019, 08:31:24 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 12, 2019, 08:26:47 PM
No, Robinson does NOT need to start. 

Might be better on a second unit with Gibson and Knox up front. 

Knicks not picking up Ntilikina? 

Mmmmmm....you a betting man?

6 mil wont be important come next summer?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 12, 2019, 08:32:28 PM
Only one game, but worth noting that Peyton was a -24 in 26 minutes, Frank a +0 in 19.


Numbers I dont lean on
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 12, 2019, 09:33:26 PM
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/stats/playersort/nba/year-2019-season-preseason-category-fieldgoals


https://www.rotoworld.com/basketball/nba/player/30434/frank-ntilikina
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 13, 2019, 02:00:03 AM
Kid can Dunning-Kruger the shit out of some basketball. Glad he has no say in anything of any importance to anyone. If someone ever did put trust in him, it would be a terrible mistake.
Title: Frank & Dennis
Post by: chipstern on October 13, 2019, 05:23:42 PM
No, the six million will not be important next summer. 

First of all, opt-outs on all the deals, save Julius and Marcus (straight one year deal). 

Second, not a really delectable assortment of free agents coming due.  Delectable?  Okay, probable.  Okay, RESTRICTED.  Most of the unrestricted are a little long in the tooth to fit our team moving forward.   

Anthony Davis is expected to opt out next summer.  We shall see.  How the Lakers do this season will play a big part in any possible decisions.  And how Davis and his agent view the prospects of assembling a team around AD without draft picks or any young talent other than Kuzma. 

Who else is unrestricted?  PG Fred Van Vleet of the Raptors. 

Otherwise, a lot of RFA, such as Pascal Siakam of the Raptors. 

Frank is due to make 4.8 million for 2019-2020.  Team Option for 6.1 million in 2020-2021.  Qualifying Offer of 8.3 million in 2021-2022. 

Dennis Smith is also on the clock.  Making 4.4 this season, with a team option for 2020-2021 of 5.6 and a qualifying offer of 7.7 in 2021-2022. 

Elfrid is at 8 million for this year, with a team option for 2020-21. 

That's potentially 19 million on the books for all three in 2020-21. 

A re-signed Frank (let alone Dennis) has much more appeal as a trading chip if locked up for 2020-21. 

Not picking up Frank and Dennis' options would make them UNRESTRICTED for next summer, and hence, less valuable as assets, more like rent-a-player/expiring contracts. 

So the issue is not six million for next summer, which is a specious projection; rather, which move going forward gives the Knicks a better set of options?

Says here, we pick up both Frank and Dennis, and re-examine our options on December 15 when presumably, everyone can be traded. 

PS: Kadeem Allen being our safety two-way option, and presumably Hinton and Peters in developmental mode.  I would look to PF Wooten as another safety two-way option this season with Westchester, as both Portis and Gibson are subject to review next summer, and it remains to be seen whether or not Morris is a one year rental. 

PPS: Thanks to Phul Jackoff, we do not have our own second round picks in 2020 or 2021. 

PPPS: We have Charlotte's 2020 and 2021 second rounders from the Hernan-Gomez trade.  We have Dallas' unprotected 2021 first rounder and Top Ten protected #1 in 2023. 
Title: Dotson & Trier
Post by: chipstern on October 13, 2019, 07:10:24 PM
Do not believe we have any contractual hold on either of them beyond the summer of 2020. 

Title: Wizards
Post by: chipstern on October 13, 2019, 08:03:02 PM
Playing the mighty Bucks very tough. 
Title: Division Rivals
Post by: Kam on October 13, 2019, 09:25:40 PM
Chip - The Wiz haven't been division rivals with the Knicks for about 20 years.  I wasn't around in the 60s and 70s when the Knicks and Wiz were actual rivals playing meaningful basketball.  I think in 2019 they'd make a trade with the Knicks no problem.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 13, 2019, 09:28:37 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 12, 2019, 06:01:55 PM
Fiz's downfall will be that he wants to play everybody.  He feels he can help all their careers - and that this is his job

Wrong!!!

Well that sounds like it could be what happens.  BUT maybe he wants to be known as a developmental coach.
He will get a job elsewhere with a young teamif he can just improve this team to playoff level.

 Since coaches know they are hired to be fired maybe it makes sense  - from a "keep cashin em' checks" perspective (i mean look at his wife, she aint messin with no broke blokes ) - to specialize as a certain type of coach. 

There will always be a need for coaches who improve young players.  Not everyone can coach a champ. But there's only one coach a year that gets that honor.  So if you wanna play the long game in the NBA your best bet is to develop a strength that doesn't involve consistently winning 50+ games. 

There's only a handful or two of those type of coaches anyway.

Rivers
Pop
Carlisle
Kerr
Spoelstra


Fizdale is a "brand manager" and he is helping his own brand as he helps the players.
Title: Re: Wizards
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 13, 2019, 10:03:06 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 13, 2019, 08:03:02 PM
Playing the mighty Bucks very tough.

Hachi is back, I trust

Funny how he had a rest day after playing all of 37 minutes over 2 games
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 13, 2019, 10:20:17 PM
Bulls are fucking loaded
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 13, 2019, 10:34:59 PM
You’d have to be loaded to say that about the fucking Bulls.

Kyle O’Quinn is going to find a nice role in Philly.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 14, 2019, 11:12:12 AM
Kyle O’Quinn is going to find a nice role in Philly.


That would be cool


Embiid
Horford
Harris
Scott
Thybulle
O'QUINN
Bolden
Ennis
Pelle
Title: Knicks/Bullets [Wizards]
Post by: chipstern on October 14, 2019, 11:14:15 AM
Quote from: Kam on October 13, 2019, 09:25:40 PM
Chip - The Wiz haven't been division rivals with the Knicks for about 20 years.  I wasn't around in the 60s and 70s when the Knicks and Wiz were actual rivals playing meaningful basketball.  I think in 2019 they'd make a trade with the Knicks no problem.

Kam, back when the Knicks and the Wizards [the Bullets] were fierce rivals...

Reed-Unseld
DeBusherre-Johnson
Bradley-Marin
Barnett-Loughery
Frazier-Monroe

It was not a bitter rivalry, like with the Celtics, but it was, well, FIERCE.

Back to your original point, rivals through they were, one of the most eventful trades in the history of either franchise, occurred between these two teams when Monroe forced his way out of Baltimore and became a Knick in exchange for Mike Riordan and Dave Stallworth just as the 1971 season was about to break, following a May 1971 trade of Cazzie Russell to  the Warriors for Jerry Lucas. 

Knicks with Monroe and Lucas won the NBA Finals against the Lakers in 1973.

Riordan, with Elvin Hayes and Wes Unseld made it to the NBA Finals in 1975, but where taken out in four by Rick Barry's Warriors. 

Cannot recall any trades between the Knicks and Celtics.

Nor any subsequent trades between NY and Washington. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 14, 2019, 12:29:15 PM
Good Monroe piece:

https://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/bs-xpm-2012-03-21-bs-sp-earl-monroe-0321-20120321-story.html
Title: The Three Things
Post by: Kam on October 14, 2019, 04:01:28 PM
The three things/stories i'm most curious to see this year

1. The continued ascent of Mitchell Robinson

Easily my favorite Knick.  I want him to avoid sophomore slumping like so many recent Knick rooks.

2. The hard knock veterans we imported as Free Agents for "toughness"

I'm rooting for Taj and Marcus and Bobby and Julius to lay some hard fouls in the paint.

3.  RJB's rookie :saviour: season


The three things i don't want to see:

1.  Knicks perimeter guys not guarding the 3pt line.

2.  The continued lack of a credible playmaking PG since JKidd

3.  KP dominating for the Mavs
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 14, 2019, 07:22:08 PM
NBATV double dip

Hornets-Grizz - then LAL-GS
Title: Re: The Three Things
Post by: NeedsAdjustments on October 15, 2019, 08:48:05 AM
Quote from: Kam on October 14, 2019, 04:01:28 PM
The three things/stories i'm most curious to see this year

1. The continued ascent of Mitchell Robinson

Easily my favorite Knick.  I want him to avoid sophomore slumping like so many recent Knick rooks.

2. The hard knock veterans we imported as Free Agents for "toughness"

I'm rooting for Taj and Marcus and Bobby and Julius to lay some hard fouls in the paint.

3.  RJB's rookie :saviour: season


The three things i don't want to see:

1.  Knicks perimeter guys not guarding the 3pt line.

2.  The continued lack of a credible playmaking PG since JKidd

3.  KP dominating for the Mavs

Good luck with that:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SKqJJLcR5Y (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SKqJJLcR5Y)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on October 15, 2019, 12:37:53 PM
I think LeBron should come out with a special Hong-Kong edition sneaker.

fashionable for wear in the court of public opinion or the street

Power to the people!

who can afford a clset full of $200 sneakers

Title: Re: The Three Things
Post by: Kam on October 15, 2019, 01:01:24 PM
Quote from: NeedsAdjustments on October 15, 2019, 08:48:05 AM
Quote from: Kam on October 14, 2019, 04:01:28 PM
The three things/stories i'm most curious to see this year

1. The continued ascent of Mitchell Robinson

Easily my favorite Knick.  I want him to avoid sophomore slumping like so many recent Knick rooks.

2. The hard knock veterans we imported as Free Agents for "toughness"

I'm rooting for Taj and Marcus and Bobby and Julius to lay some hard fouls in the paint.

3.  RJB's rookie :saviour: season


The three things i don't want to see:

1.  Knicks perimeter guys not guarding the 3pt line.

2.  The continued lack of a credible playmaking PG since JKidd

3.  KP dominating for the Mavs

Good luck with that:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SKqJJLcR5Y (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SKqJJLcR5Y)

KP got no hops anymore.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PA2um3eKE70 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PA2um3eKE70)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 15, 2019, 01:21:29 PM
I'm rooting for KZ.
I did see some DAl highlights the other day and on three plays KZ looked a bit lazy.  But I have no idea of the context.

And maybe he's just being cautious.
I don't think you can judge KZ until 2020 kicks in.
Will take him a few months to get back in swing and get confidence in his repaired joints.

Title: KP
Post by: chipstern on October 15, 2019, 01:31:44 PM
Like I said, a rival. 

But not rooting against him. 

As for his present up and down state, there is work out time and face time under combat conditions. 

Like BoD suggests, develop faith in his body and an expectation of what he can do. 

Just the mere threat of that 30 foot jumper will make Dallas a better team. 

That being said, it is DONIC's team. 

PS: Knicks missed out on Donic and Williamson.  Ended up with Knox and Barrett.  We shall see. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 15, 2019, 02:24:33 PM
The continued ascent of Mitchell Robinson

Easily my favorite Knick.  I want him to avoid sophomore slumping like so many recent Knick rooks


Mitch ranked #14 overall player in my Yahoo draft

Means I will likely get him in all drafts where I use autodraft. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 15, 2019, 02:27:52 PM
PS: Knicks missed out on Doncic and Williamson.  Ended up with Knox and Barrett.  We shall see.



And Frankie instead of Monk

Sigh.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 15, 2019, 02:29:30 PM
Looks like we at least get something for Ntilikina

https://dailyknicks.com/2019/10/14/new-york-knicks-three-potential-frank-ntilikina-pistons-trades/

As I suspected, we PUNT on the 4th year
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 15, 2019, 02:40:36 PM
I think Mitch is very intriguing.
But he's still a raw pup -- foul prone, etc.
I look forward to his development.
But expect it to take years.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 15, 2019, 03:02:57 PM
Nice to see that Frank is unequivocally outplaying Monk so far this preseason. The gap between Frank’s value and Monk’s lack of it will only widen over the course of their careers.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 15, 2019, 08:51:31 PM
.294/.143

Nice
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 16, 2019, 12:16:26 AM
6.7/1.7/0.7

Stellar.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 16, 2019, 01:12:22 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 15, 2019, 02:27:52 PM
PS: Knicks missed out on Doncic and Williamson.  Ended up with Knox and Barrett.  We shall see.



And Frankie instead of Monk

Sigh.

Fuck Monk. 

DONOVAN MITCHELL. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 16, 2019, 02:18:56 AM
I was in that camp with Frank as my fallback.

DM is a beast.

Frank is going to be an excellent pro and I hope an excellent long term Knick.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 16, 2019, 08:07:44 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 16, 2019, 12:16:26 AM
6.7/1.7/0.7

Stellar.

Sealing early this year - before the season even starts - that you have no idea how to look at pro basketball

Monk's the better player.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 16, 2019, 01:39:12 PM
Monk is worth at least 1.2 Fredettes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 16, 2019, 02:01:57 PM
Jimmer is a legend in a few locales.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 16, 2019, 05:08:20 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 16, 2019, 02:01:57 PM
Jimmer is a legend in a few locales.

None of them in continental North America. 

Your slip is showing, Lady Kiid.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 16, 2019, 06:42:38 PM
heh

Untrue, of course
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 16, 2019, 06:50:01 PM
His skills were noted by several collegiate and NBA players across the country. Kevin Durant of the Oklahoma City Thunder posted on his Twitter account that "Jimmer Fredette is the best scorer in the world!",[86] while Steve Nash of the Phoenix Suns tweeted "Jimmer Fredette? That name's straight out of Hoosiers. No wonder he never misses."[87] Jared Sullinger, a forward at Ohio State University, said "Jimmer is going off right now. Pure scorer."[88]

Other facets of his personality were noted by other college coaches. Former Utah Utes coach Jim Boylen cited "swagger and confidence" as Fredette's biggest weapons, and Villanova's Jay Wright also remarked favorably on Fredette's on-court aggressiveness, comparing him to Pete Maravich in that respect. However, Kelli Anderson described Fredette as "fiercely competitive while remaining unassuming and likable", noting that Arizona coach Sean Miller hugged Fredette after he scored 49 on the Wildcats.[85]

----

In an article published in Sports Illustrated, Marcus Morris, a forward at Kansas, noted the work ethic and moral character Fredette exhibited while at USA Basketball camp. He said, "He's got heart. You can see he has a feel for the game, and he can shoot it from anywhere. Even if you try to box-and-one the guy, he brings it up and just pulls up from the hashmark. That's tough to guard."[39]



LEGEND
Title: Legend
Post by: chipstern on October 16, 2019, 07:41:05 PM
Uh, I'm sorry, but weren't we talking about 2019?

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 16, 2019, 07:58:45 PM
Legends dont lose legendary status.  THats pretty much the meaning of the word.

But in general - for this forum - sure - back to 2019 talk, as Jimmer takes his legendary play to Greece.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 16, 2019, 11:22:56 PM
so I watch my first glimpse of Knicks this preseason, turn on the game with 5 minutes left and see Frankie make about three plays which are the kind that win you games..don't know what else I missed
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 16, 2019, 11:34:36 PM
.294/.143

I trust that improved tonight.  Would almost have to.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 16, 2019, 11:48:21 PM
Is disgraced ex-Knix coach Rick Pitino still coaching Panathinaikos?
Nick Calathes their top player.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 16, 2019, 11:50:32 PM
Wasn't Monk one of the few players worse on D than Knox last year?

Edit:  looks like I was thinking of Sexton.
Monk was merely 492/514 in Defensive real +/-.

Mud was 495.  Trier 489.  Datsun 471.

Hardway Jr 464.  Kanter 445.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 17, 2019, 12:15:02 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 16, 2019, 11:48:21 PM
Is disgraced ex-Knix coach Rick Pitino still coaching Panathinaikos?
Nick Calathes their top player.

No
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 17, 2019, 04:16:47 AM
Someone something about a legendary flash in the pan?

Ammo or Jimmer?

Our boys had a game.

Not sure I like counting on Mitch or Portis as a primary pivot.

Vince put up a classic. Wanted him over a guy like Bullock. KCP was someone else I had in the Bullock range.

Taj and Kev are nice. I see them as the best duo to bring Mitch along, so I like that as our frontcourt second unit.

Randle and Morris are a vital tandem.

I like Bobby, but he’s showing defensive instincts very similar to Kanter’s though he has much better athleticism. He needs to learn to play keeper. So does Mitch. Situational D with these big guys was tough to watch.

I’d like to see Taj Randle and Marcus with some combo of Knox, RJ, and Frank filling the other two spots.

Develop guard play and get the bigs to do more to help the guards would be our top priorities for team development. Beefing up the pivot should be our top front office priority.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 17, 2019, 05:43:35 AM
Trier, Dot, and Ellington can round out our back court.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 17, 2019, 08:20:44 AM
Overlooked is how often we in recent years miss big free throws/have horrible late possessions in losses.

Last night just another example - with Julius clanging the game-tier with 19 ticks left.

Hawks are interesting.  As are we.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Pharoah on October 17, 2019, 11:17:46 AM
The Knicks made late comeback attempt after struggling with Trae Young and the Hawks all night but couldn't close out, losing 96-100. It was a game of flashes of hope mixed with frustration. The point forward concept has been pushed a little too hard with a front court that mostly isolates. All of Randle, Morris and Portis performed better when they got the ball in motion. The Randle and Portis interior tandem leaves a lot to be desired defensively. We're also getting a healthy dose of Ellington, Mook and Portis at the expense of minutes for Trier, Knox and Robinson. But the young guys did so flashes. RJ and Knox looked like our most dynamic weapons on the roster in spite of poor shooting numbers. Mitch still blocked shots in limited minutes. Then Frank flashed his ability to take over a game on the defensive end late, keying the near comeback for the Knicks through a block, a steal, an offensive board and an assist during a late run. Let's explore further...

DSJ: Tough to say much about this one because Smith looked rusty after returning from a back injury. His timing wasn't there, two players looked him off on the very first play of the game and he picked up quick foul trouble that hurt his rhythm even further. When Smith did play, he looked hesitant and may have been trying to share a bit too much (new teammates causes chemistry issues). It's mostly forgivable, the guy just took time off for back problems and he's rusty. We can worry about him if two weeks from now the same problems persist. One thing that does worry me is just how iso heavy our forwards are. DSJ struggled when Doncic took the reins of the offense in Dallas. Now he's looking at an offense with Marcus Morris, Julius Randle and RJ Barrett will all share the floor and need their turns...it's concerning. But I'm hopeful DSJ finds a balance or maybe slides into the bench scoring role that I assumed Allonzo Trier would fulfill (that's if Fiz doesn't give Zo a shot at the role). Smith put up 4 points (1/5 shooting), 3 assists and 2 boards with 3 turnovers...tough night, give him time.

RJ: RJ Barrett looks like a prize, point blank. He's a college freshman aged rookie with an NBA vet's strength and poise. He was the Knicks best playmaker by a wide margin, played good defense, chased down boards and found ways to score in spite of struggling with his shot. The rookie posted 12 points, 6 assists and 7 rebounds with 2 TO's. RJ also added 2 steals and a block, and it wasn't just stat sheet defense. He has been a pleasant surprise on the defensive end all preseason. The new wrinkle we got last night was playmaking. With DSJ's foul trouble, Fizdale allowed Barrett to run some PG and he handled the role pretty well. These moments showed off that we probably want to put the ball in RJ's hands and give him creation opportunities for chunks of time...let's develop that! I do have to point out the bad though. RJ's shot is the known issue and he struggled with that again last night. Barrett went 4/14 from the field and 0/3 from three over 39 minutes. He's not forcing things, I'm optimistic the efficiency will come around, but for now that's the big work in progress.

Morris: It felt like Marcus Morris took more shots than he did for me. The guy is a bucket but he also isolates heavily, so it's easy to lose track of how much or how little he's dominating the ball. Whether he seems like he's forcing the issue or not though, he's been productive every time out point blank. Morris went 5/11 including 1/3 from three, totaling 14 points, 8 rebounds and 2 assists to 1 TO. Mook also supplied 2 blocks and was solid defensively all night. He's a steady scoring presence with defense to back it up and that's a fine role for him to fill.

Randle: I feel like Julius Randle's play wasn't as good as his statline suggests but it also wasn't bad, it was just inconsistent. There would be a stretch of play where Randle attacks the lane and finishes, attacks the lane and finds an open man, then finds the ball in motion and scores again...then there would be a stretch where he dribbles into traffic repeatedly with no positive results. It was the same deal defensively, where there were periods of Randle giving way too much space in screen and roll situations but then other moments where he made rotations that I wasn't expecting. The statline makes Randle look like a juggernaut though. He posted 20 points, 8 boards and 2 assists to 2 TO's along with 2 blocks and a steal on 6/12 shooting plus 7/9 from the free throw line. The thing is, Randle had the ball in his hands A LOT and especially initiated the offense often. From that perspective the 2 assists is too low and the mixed bag defense wasn't good enough. He looks like he'd make a really solid number two option but running the offense through him isn't working so far. Bare in mind though, it's the third game of the preseason and a new role for him; these growing pains could end up worth it considering how productive he was. He's not as far away from making this work as a handful of frustrating isolations might make you think.

Portis: I'll preface this with a simple statement, I don't like the Randle/Portis tandem because the interior defense suffers and our pick and roll defense is exploitable. But I like both as individual players to fit in a rotation and from a pure productivity standpoint, I can't argue with the results. Bobby Portis put up 16 points and 7 boards with 1 assist to 1 TO while shooting 6/12 but struggling from three where he went 1/4 including a forced three ball very late in the game down 2 points. Portis flashed good hands on dump offs, which helped when Randle and RJ drove into a crowd. Bobby also got some tough boards and made his post ups count. The bad on the offensive end in this one mostly comes down to being in a line-up with two other post up bigs while his three ball wasn't landing. Portis can produce, but he needs the ball in his hands the same as Morris and Randle...that takes the ball out of the guards hands too often and allows for easy collapsing. Defensively, Portis kinda hamstrings pick and roll defense to the tune of everyone guarding Trae Young picking up fouls rapidly. Portis HAS to slow down the guard as they come through the screen, it's a simple adjustment that he didn't make until Fizdale went full on trapping the ball handler.

Frank: Frank Ntilikina started the game shaky with quick fouls and differing to the aforementioned big men. Ntilikina would push the pace and then just pick out whichever big had the best size mismatch, then feed that big man and move away. That's the tentativeness that frustrates Frank's supporters and detractors alike. It was in the second half that Frank really got into his bag though. His first stint of the second half was marked with finding more players in motion from off ball action rather than feeding them for Iso's. Then he came back with around 5 minutes left and shut down Trae Young. The Hawks offense is still massively relient on Young, so those stops sparked a comeback. The problem with Frank even during that stint was that he couldn't keep the defense honest in the half court. The Hawks packed the paint and Frank fed the bigs again, who forced the ball again and the offense was stagnant enough to fail at a comeback. Either Frank has to draw his defender back on him to make space or he has to get the ball back from the bigs so they aren't forcing shots in traffic. At least get the ball back and swing it to the weakside. At the end of the day, Frank has to keep having faith in his jumper...he'll either be a jumper away his whole career or the jumper will start falling and he'll be a permanent rotation player.

Ellington: Wayne Ellington is a gunner. He runs hard off ball and if he has an inch, he takes a shot. That's who he is and it contributes to better spacing for everyone, but can also lead to some ugly games when the shot isn't falling. Wayne put up 5 points, a steal and 2 TO's on 2/8 shooting and 1/7 from three. It wasn't pretty at all. Wayne tried to attack a couple of pick and rolls which resulted in a couple of ugly possessions and TO's, but he HAS to do that from time to time. The more problematic part is the terrible three point shooting...he's here so he can make those and when they're not falling it's impossible to justify why he'd be on the floor over Allonzo Trier or Damyean Dotson. That said, Trier hasn't proven himself to be ready for a true off ball shooter role and Dotson has that should situation. I want Zo to get another, legitimate crack at this role but I'd preach patience with Ellington. He's a microwave, so you're always a shot or two away from this guy going NBA jam fire levels of knocking them down...also I love when players move off the ball with purpose which is how this vet plays all the time. So give Trier a look but keep an open mind with Ellington and the true answer for this role might still be recovering from offseason surgery.

Kevin Knox: Full name treatment for this young man because even shooting poorly, he showed everything I'm looking for from his development as a player. Knox was a young rookie with poor vision, decision making and a lack of balance but showed potential to score from all levels and good rebounding. Last night his vision and decision making were much improved; the core strength held up on drives; and while Knox was still inefficient he was a legit long ball threat who got to the line when players chased him out of the long range. In 20 minutes, Knox put up 11 points, 2 assists and 2 rebounds on 2/8 from the field, 2/6 from three and 5/6 from the line. Like Randle, Knox's stat-line doesn't tell the whole story. His ability to be a floor stretching forward was a welcome addition to the isolation and post heavy offense that came from everyone else in the front court besides a bit from Taj (more on that in a second). The team's best spaced line-ups are probably going to involve Knox and the fact that he's now spotting open guys when the defense collapses means that he's a threat to shoot, drive, draw the foul and now also a threat to find the open shooter or cutter. He's still extremely young...this is the tip of the iceberg. Defensively, he didn't stand out which is an improvement over last year where he only stood out there when he made mistakes. I'll take mediocre to average defense and that offensive contribution all day. As a matter of fact, I'd like Knox to get a chance to start in the last preseason game. If anyone has earned that opportunity, it's Knox.

Taj: The Taj Gibson theme for this preseason continued...Taj should probably get more minutes. Gibson only played for 13 minutes but went 3/4 from the field, made his only 3 pointer (also hit a long jumper with his foot on the line) and contributed 8 points, 2 boards, 2 assists and consistently solid defense that the starting frontcourt couldn't provide. The other new bigs are young vets with more to learn, Taj is the old dog who knows his role and plays it perfectly. The closing minutes when the offense came down to one pass and an isolation; I think Taj replacing one of Portis or Randle changes that...speculation of course. Anyway, there isn't too much to say here. Taj gets limited minutes, looks good and goes back to the bench. I feel like that's his rightful role later on in the season, but this team needs to learn how to close games with poise and that was lacking last night. I'd like Gibson to get a chance to help with that issue.

Mitch: Two disappointing games led to a bench role for Mitch and while there was some improvement, he still hasn't captured the magic of his rookie campaign. Robinson came in and quickly tallied a block, plus grabbed some boards although his hands both on boards and some feeds were shoddy. He posted some numbers with his limited time though. In 18 minutes, Mitch offered up 4 points, 5 boards, 1 assist, 1 steal and 2 blocks on 2/3 shooting. Most importantly though, the second round steal had no fouls in that span. Foul trouble has ruined his first two campaigns and he seemed aware of it while still managing 2 blocks. It's way too soon to stress over a sophomore slump. Some players are slow starters and with Mitch, so much is predicated on timing that you could argue he'd be a prime candidate to need some extra time to straighten things out. His energy and pace seeming off could also come down to building competitive play stamina and chemistry with new teammates. That he looked better next to a real vet like Taj, with less defensive holes to try and cover for as well as in a more ball movement friendly line-up gives me some optimism about that being the case. Considering how flawed the starting front court was defensively and how stagnant the offense was regardless of ball handler in these cases, I think Mitch ought to head right back into the starting unit. But the entire rotation needs better balance and Mitch could be an example of why that is with his marked improvement last night.

Fiz: I see a lot of red flags but there's plenty to rationalize around it, so we can choose glass is half full or glass is half empty here. The good is that the pace is up, the defensive intensity was back (especially late) and the rotations have been tightened. Fiz has trotted out 10 main guys to mix and match a night rather than giving us spot minute check ups on players where we don't learn anything meaningful (this did sort of happen to Iggy but he's about it). Benching Mitch is likely a necessary evil after two really rough games in terms of foul trouble and misplaced efforts. There's also plenty of sharing the opportunities. While the ball is sticking, everyone is getting their turn with 4 players in double-digit FGA's but a max of 14 takes for any one guy. That said, there's plenty to worry about too. It's hard to imagine Allonzo Trier getting so few opportunities this preseason when the offense has stagnated often and the isolation stuff plays to his biggest strength. Knox has been the most promising player outside of RJ but still isn't getting the minutes like it. Frank Ntilikina, for better or worse, has been the Knicks best PG in all three games but still hasn't been rewarded a start. It's not just that the youth could get more opportunities, it's that I think we might actually be better that way. The depth and log jams should mean that when Ellington is 1/6; we give Trier or Dotson a look. When Bobby Portis or Julius Randle forces two straight possessions, we can pull him for Taj to settle things down and get back to ball movement. That hasn't happened. On the "could be bad, could be nothing" front there's the lack of any offensive system right now. The team seems to just rely way too often on isolations up top for whoever they think has a mismatch. That led to too much Randle or Portis orchestrating when the guards could set those guys up to act more quickly before the defense rotates or closes the lanes. We still need more set plays to get some guys going too, the Knicks ran a couple that worked but a couple of plays over the course of a game is way too few. It's early, we have a ton of new guys and the young guys still have a lot to learn...but it's worth noting the red flags, especially ones that carry over from last season. The lack of a cohesive offense ran for 82 games last season, through summer league and now into the preseason. That doesn't mean anything definitive but it worries me.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 17, 2019, 12:00:58 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 17, 2019, 05:43:35 AM
Trier, Dot, .......... can round out our back court.

who?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 17, 2019, 12:49:51 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 17, 2019, 12:00:58 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 17, 2019, 05:43:35 AM
Trier, Dot, .......... can round out our back court.

who?

Damyean Dotson
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 17, 2019, 01:08:03 PM
Quote from: Pharoah on October 17, 2019, 11:17:46 AM
The Randle and Portis interior tandem leaves a lot to be desired defensively.

I thought that was obvious.
And one of the reasons I don't see Portis at C.

Quote
Portis can produce, but he needs the ball in his hands the same as Morris and Randle...that takes the ball out of the guards hands too often and allows for easy collapsing.

We added 3 PF's in FA who have significant overlap.
I didn't think Morris was needed, and we got him in a somewhat shady manner. 

Randle is an odd player.
Sometimes he looks unstoppable.  And everything is working.
Other times he crashes into folks and/or just flings the ball towards the rim.  But I didn't see him too much last year, so willing to watch with fresh eyes.
Title: PHAROAH--The Return Of The Prodigal Son
Post by: chipstern on October 17, 2019, 01:20:23 PM
Great analysis as always dude. 

If Marc Berman is implicated in the Ukraine thang, you should at the very least get a Weekly Report Card Column. 

Fizz?

Clearly the emphasis has been on defense, and we see some progress there.  Some brain farts, but the effort was palpable, and we didn't lay down and die in the fourth. 

Offensively, not having settled on a PG is one thing.  Secondly, while I am loving RJ (and Knox), I was baffled by the over-reliance on Ellington, who when hot is a miracle, and when cold, well, not so much.  He is playing D.  Trier, as you point out, when we are in a half court/ISO mode, is capable of creating his own shot, or opening things up for the bigs to get easier looks down low.  And Dotson, when ready, deserves a big chunk of the minutes going to Ellington. 

Third, RJ is a PLAYA.  We know about his journey in terms of treys and FTs, but he plays mature, D's up, makes good decisions.  I think at some point, a RJ/DOT backcourt might give us a good defensive/inside-outside look. 

Finally, I know this is the modern NBA, but in the fourth last night, we forced too many early treys, too early in the clock; to much one on one; too much iso.  Clearly, the PG penetrating and breaking down the D, keeping motion and ball movement is critical. 

Having said that, being inconsistent on offense, and showing grit on D, at this point in time, I'll take it. 

Pelicans on Friday a really good test with Holiday and Ball to test our PGs, and Zion to make our bigs man up. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 17, 2019, 01:25:42 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 17, 2019, 01:08:03 PM
Quote from: Pharoah on October 17, 2019, 11:17:46 AM
The Randle and Portis interior tandem leaves a lot to be desired defensively.

I thought that was obvious.
And one of the reasons I don't see Portis at C.

Quote
Portis can produce, but he needs the ball in his hands the same as Morris and Randle...that takes the ball out of the guards hands too often and allows for easy collapsing.

We added 3 PF's in FA who have significant overlap.
I didn't think Morris was needed, and we got him in a somewhat shady manner. 

Randle is an odd player.
Sometimes he looks unstoppable.  And everything is working.
Other times he crashes into folks and/or just flings the ball towards the rim.  But I didn't see him too much last year, so willing to watch with fresh eyes.

An odd take you continue to run with on Morris. 

Shady?

WTF does that have to do with the price of bread? 

It would seem that MM's agent was advancing one narrative, and MM was not on the same page.  Shit happens.  We may never know for sure.

As for the WE DON'T NEED HIM part, well, we don't agree on that at all. 

Having said that, I think Pharoah's observations about Taj are right on the money, and there should be more opportunities for his to glean minutes, both with Mitchell, and where he might better balance some combo of Portis-Randle-Morris. 

Mitch-Taj-MM
Taj-Portis-Knox

We shall see. 

PS: Morris > D > Good > Needed
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 17, 2019, 01:37:28 PM
Ball?  Is he any good?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 17, 2019, 01:53:15 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 17, 2019, 01:37:28 PM
Ball?  Is he any good?

Now that he has escaped from the Lakers and his fucking father, and is paired with Jrue Holiday and has gotten healthy, he has a shot.  Might even be evolving a shot at a shot to go with his D, not unlike that Frenchman with the long arms, though at this point in time, Frank's shot and sense of decisiveness lag considerably. 

Stick with Jimmer and Monk.  More your speed. 

And Grandpa, let's hear again about how underrated Jordan Hill was. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 17, 2019, 02:21:59 PM
Morris should be one of the better Knix, and I like his toughness and all-around game.  BUT, I'd rather see the minutes go to Knox and Portishead.  They'll be around longer.  Morris is what 30(?) and looking to cash in next Summer.  Which isn't the best for team chemistry, which the Morris twins ain't known for already.
We'll see if any clash or selfishness develops.
Alternatively, I would have been up for a 3 year deal for Morris and not taken on Portis.  But Portis is young so that play makes sense.  Still I wouldn't have overloaded on FA F's..

I never liked Elf or Ellington, but I'm willing to give them a fresh shot to see what they can contribute.  Of course they could find it easier to fit in if thievery wasn't unsettled and everybody new and trying to fit in somehow.

Randle is interesting but I always felt he wasn't an easy player to fit a team around.

I haven't seen Barrett or any preseason yet.

The specter of weak guard play, iso Bigs and iffy D seems to loom over this season.  As for Fizz, another year to develop something and players and try to make an odd roster cohere.  I don't start clocking him until next year, mid-season.  Last season and this are on the front office.  With a better roster and more continuity he'd be a better coach.  I'll be patient with Fizz all year. 
Title: Fizdale
Post by: Kam on October 17, 2019, 04:25:28 PM
Keep him the whole year.   Continuity is important, especially with a team of players on their first contract.  Re-evaluate next offseason when a fresh batch of coaches will become available
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 17, 2019, 05:01:49 PM
Fizz should lean on Mike Miller who has a knack for pulling cohesive executable effective game plans out of his ass amid constantly shifting personnel.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 17, 2019, 06:06:46 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 09, 2019, 11:52:48 AM
We farked up, that's so f-in' what . . .

If we start Elfin, we're in trouble.
He's a quality backup PG.
I never got much of a read on Jr. Smith.
I didn't see him play with NYK much.
It'd be disappointing if Elf is our best PG.

I'd like to see Jr. Smith push the pace with Barrett flying along and Randle rumbling behind.  Mitch gets down court nicely too.
Early offense.  Get some easy buckets.  Randle is quite good on the break.

Look at Elfrid’s game log from last season

Only question is will Fiz give him the liberty
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 17, 2019, 06:54:02 PM
Mudiay 12 and 6 in 21 minutes

Monk 18 and 7 in 23
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 17, 2019, 07:53:30 PM
And Grandpa, let's hear again about how underrated Jordan Hill was.


Underrated only here

Draftnicks certainly didnt underrate him - nor did the NBA populace.

They liked him - and played him.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 17, 2019, 07:54:36 PM
As for Lonzo and Frank in the same breath - please don't embarrass yourself.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jerrya on October 17, 2019, 08:39:47 PM
BB can be  pretty simple.  Yes, x and o's can make a difference but if you don't have shooters you won't go anywhere. I hope I'm wrong but it looks like we don't have any.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 18, 2019, 02:08:02 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 17, 2019, 07:53:30 PM
And Grandpa, let's hear again about how underrated Jordan Hill was.


Underrated only here

Draftnicks certainly didnt underrate him - nor did the NBA populace.

They liked him - and played him.

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/23d3537af799610e2583908a880bc9c8/tenor.gif?itemid=10862144)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 18, 2019, 04:58:04 AM
Elf had a lot of late season stats.  For whatever that's worth.
We have 3 PG's who can't make 3's.
And Elf crowds out Frank.
So my enthusiasm is muted.

ELF had weird splits.
Abysmal shooting at Home:  40% FG and 26% on 3's
Solid even strong Road %'s: 47% FG and 37.5% on 3's.
What's behind that?

Seems like focus issues.  Distractions and such(?)

I didn't realize that Elf has been a starter almost all of his career.
He has a weird style, but should be a solid enough backup PG.

I haven't seen him much the past 2 years, so clean slate time ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 18, 2019, 09:41:54 AM
He has a weird style...


...but got rid of that weird hair, thankfully

https://www.si.com/nba/2018/05/18/suns-elfrid-payton-hair-cut-photo
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 18, 2019, 10:27:59 AM
Quote from: Jerrya on October 17, 2019, 08:39:47 PM
BB can be  pretty simple.  Yes, x and o's can make a difference but if you don't have shooters you won't go anywhere. I hope I'm wrong but it looks like we don't have any.

LESS than some other teams, agreed

None?

Nah, that is a bit harsh.

I think we get better in the bottom line MORESO by limiting opponents threes than by increasing ours.  I am OK with ball movement and effective PNR play leading to makeable 2s.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 18, 2019, 10:33:59 AM
Randle: I feel like Julius Randle's play wasn't as good as his statline suggests but it also wasn't bad, it was just inconsistent. There would be a stretch of play where Randle attacks the lane and finishes, attacks the lane and finds an open man, then finds the ball in motion and scores again...then there would be a stretch where he dribbles into traffic repeatedly with no positive results. It was the same deal defensively, where there were periods of Randle giving way too much space in screen and roll situations but then other moments where he made rotations that I wasn't expecting. The statline makes Randle look like a juggernaut though. He posted 20 points, 8 boards and 2 assists to 2 TO's along with 2 blocks and a steal on 6/12 shooting plus 7/9 from the free throw line. The thing is, Randle had the ball in his hands A LOT and especially initiated the offense often. From that perspective the 2 assists is too low and the mixed bag defense wasn't good enough. He looks like he'd make a really solid number two option but running the offense through him isn't working so far. Bare in mind though, it's the third game of the preseason and a new role for him; these growing pains could end up worth it considering how productive he was. He's not as far away from making this work as a handful of frustrating isolations might make you think.


I of course also appreciate Pharoah's work

But if we are going to microanalyze Randle all year this will be quite unfair.

He's a solid top 100 NBA player and shouldnt we critiqued like he is Melo.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 18, 2019, 11:48:31 AM
Randle's contract makes him the one guy the Knicks can't write off next season.  SO there will be much time devoted to his play, both to justify the money (from a sheer stats perspective - expect double-doubles a plenty) and to perhaps unlock deeper aspects to his game and make him more valuable.   

We will have to live with his ups and downs as he is our bell cow #1 player.  Same with RJ as our future bell cow.  Knox is the one guy with a shorter leash.  If his shots aint fallin he doesn't do a whole lot else.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 18, 2019, 12:25:33 PM
He will be killed here for his perceived (non)contributions to a non-playoff team.

Or he will be appreciated for his talents, even as he falls short of team goals.
Title: Signs Frank Ntilikina is done as a Knick
Post by: Kam on October 18, 2019, 07:30:19 PM
Knicks have announced Frank Ntilikina won't play tonight. 
He may never play in a Knicks uni again. 
The Pistons have sent scouts to watch the last two games. 
And the Knicks have to decide whether or not to pick up the option on Frank for next season by Oct. 31.   
+
DSJ is back from his back injury. 
Enfrid seems like he was promised the starting role. 
RJ Barrett experimenting some at PG. 
=
No role for Frank.
 
Title: Re: Signs Frank Ntilikina is done as a Knick
Post by: chipstern on October 18, 2019, 07:50:28 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 18, 2019, 07:30:19 PM
Knicks have announced Frank Ntilikina won't play tonight. 
He may never play in a Knicks uni again. 
The Pistons have sent scouts to watch the last two games. 
And the Knicks have to decide whether or not to pick up the option on Frank for next season by Oct. 31.   
+
DSJ is back from his back injury. 
Enfrid seems like he was promised the starting role. 
RJ Barrett experimenting some at PG. 
=
No role for Frank.

Mmmmmmmmmmmm
We'll see...
Detroit seems inclined to offer naught but a bucket of warm spit for Frank.
Please, Scott, a #1 please if this is a fait accompli.  Frank acquitted himself well on Wednesday.   

Still, Pistons have Reggie Jackson AND Derek Rose.  And Tim Frazier.

Tony Snell and Luke Kenard at SG.  And Langston Galloway. 

Where exactly does FN fit? 

Even worse than in NY in terms of face time.  Defensive spot minutes. 

Moving Frank makes no sense to me.  Least ways to the Pistons.  Guess it would be a #2 or two at best, reclaim the salary slot and promote Kadeem Allen. 
Title: DUH
Post by: chipstern on October 18, 2019, 08:03:39 PM
We could have drafted Jrue Holiday. 

We drafted Jordan Hill. 

PS: Bite ME. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 18, 2019, 08:54:57 PM
And Langston Galloway.

They like Frank. Who says they lie LG

Should be vindication for those here in the FN camp. A top 14 protected 1 is your best hope. Or 2 number 2s which we of course do well with
Title: Re: DUH
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 18, 2019, 09:30:26 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 18, 2019, 08:03:39 PM
We could have drafted Jrue Holiday. 

We drafted Jordan Hill. 




Was not nearly right for us at the time
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on October 18, 2019, 10:53:36 PM
lol Knicks
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on October 18, 2019, 10:55:14 PM
The ship sank 20 years ago. (just played NBA 2K2 on an emulator for the long defunct Sega Dreamcast with Allan, Spree & Camby but team had Spoon and Mark Jackson in it...the vestiges of past glory even in an almost 20 year old game!

Some of our Twitter fans hate on Andrew Yang for bashing the team as a semi-ex fan, but anyone wonder where the fans at? Most are either the most vehement die hard lovers, disappeared or sadly are gone from this Earth.

I love offering some "hot takes" as long as they're before, not after "the gather." (notice that one sequence when Wally and Breen said it about 5 times in 3 minutes?)

Waiting for the RJzilla YouTube vid from 90's movie stars. We're not just "cool" we're cold on D and not as good as most from 3 even with Ellington.

Mission accomplished?

Win predictions?

Fiz dazed and confused
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 19, 2019, 03:57:56 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 18, 2019, 08:54:57 PM
And Langston Galloway.

They like Frank. Who says they lie LG

Should be vindication for those here in the FN camp. A top 14 protected 1 is your best hope. Or 2 number 2s which we of course do well with

Or we could keep him, play him, and actually win some games.

Since we don’t have players soft enough for you, you could always become a Nets fan.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 19, 2019, 06:57:48 AM
DET needs shooting and Galloway gets hot now and then and lights it up from deep.  Franc don't.

Their best 3-shooter is Kennard (39%) then . . . Blake and RegJax, both league average (36%).  I don't see how franc fits there.  Pistols just gave up on young all-D, no-O StanJohn.  Now they want Franc?

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 19, 2019, 11:01:10 AM
Zach Lowe with some strange NYK speculation:

Quote
Utah trades Dante Exum and Tony Bradley for (maybe) Marcus Morris

I like this trade for both teams, even if both would likely say "no" now. It's an all-in move for Utah -- their means of nabbing another backup power forward and someone with a track record of jostling with the big wings in Los Angeles. New York gets a high-lottery talent who just turned 24.

Yeah, the Knicks have three point guards. So what? Exum has been at least as much wing as point guard for a while now.

Barring a surprise twist -- i.e., a trade involving Ingles or Bojan Bogdanovic -- this Exum/small salary package is Utah's only realistic means of upgrading the frontcourt. Unless Exum finally pops, I'd expect it to be in play.

Gad, we just went through one erratic Utah training-wheel PG.  Now we're back for seconds?  We couldn't get something better for mercenary Morris to help a playoff contender?
I guess 3 PG's isn't enough.

Realyl the Knix probably have led the league in rostered PG's, and starting PG's the past five years.  Time to stop the crowded carousel. 
Title: Re: DUH
Post by: chipstern on October 19, 2019, 11:43:22 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 18, 2019, 09:30:26 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 18, 2019, 08:03:39 PM
We could have drafted Jrue Holiday. 

We drafted Jordan Hill. 



Was not nearly right for us at the time


Oh, Lord. 

One of the most PG rich drafts in recent memory, we with NO point guards of note, having whiffed on Steph Curry, and with a surfeit of PGs to choose from...

Well, look who I'm trying to reason with. 

Go in peace. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 19, 2019, 11:51:14 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 19, 2019, 11:01:10 AM
Zach Lowe with some strange NYK speculation:

Quote
Utah trades Dante Exum and Tony Bradley for (maybe) Marcus Morris

I like this trade for both teams, even if both would likely say "no" now. It's an all-in move for Utah -- their means of nabbing another backup power forward and someone with a track record of jostling with the big wings in Los Angeles. New York gets a high-lottery talent who just turned 24.

Yeah, the Knicks have three point guards. So what? Exum has been at least as much wing as point guard for a while now.

Barring a surprise twist -- i.e., a trade involving Ingles or Bojan Bogdanovic -- this Exum/small salary package is Utah's only realistic means of upgrading the frontcourt. Unless Exum finally pops, I'd expect it to be in play.

Gad, we just went through one erratic Utah training-wheel PG.  Now we're back for seconds?  We couldn't get something better for mercenary Morris to help a playoff contender?
I guess 3 PG's isn't enough.

Realyl the Knix probably have led the league in rostered PG's, and starting PG's the past five years.  Time to stop the crowded carousel.

Trey has been playing well for Philly, and Emmanuel for Utah, so, there is life after Knicks. 

The "TRADE" is something I would anticipate from some sorry blogger, not a beat guy. 

Point guards?  Like the Knicks don't have enough GUARDS, period. 

Trier surely made a case for sixth man status last night, as he can create one on one off the dribble. 

Ellington has played with energy and purpose, and some D, but in the pre-season, has rarely received the ball in rhythm with ball movement around the horn, feet set, in rhythm, where he can do the most damage.  Not so much a create his own shot kind of sniper, like Reddick demonstrated frequently last night. 

Good to see Dotson nail his first trey. 

RJ has played better and better in each game, seemingly more comfortable both inside and outside...motherfucker just makes plays, makes things happen. 

And yeah, 19-year olds don't get tired, but they do tweak their knees (Zion), and there are so many players who could benefit from and benefit for the Knicks with floor time.  Maybe 30 minutes a night for RJ, eh, Coach? 

Portis and Mitchell showing some nice progress, and Randle demonstrating a good all-around game (willing and effective passer), but have to wonder why we are not rebounding more effectively. 

Also, Randle is a genuine threat from trey, and was lighting it up there for a hot minute, the last miss, notwithstanding. 

But is it just me...at crunch time, must every play out of a time out be a trey? 

Anyway, we kept scrapping, didn't give up, and showed defensive intensity and purpose, if not always acumen.  As someone pointed out, we are getting kerfuffled on pick and rolls, and as a result, find ourselves scrambling to cover the corner and wing kick outs.  A problem, along with rebounding and consistent/non-stickyball movement, we must address over the next two months, or there is going to be a rain of threes pouring out of the night sky. 

PS: Was it Berman, 'natch, who ran some article about how Barrett got no votes for potential top rookies.  Clearly our first two picks would've been Williamson and Morant, but at #3, in lieu of sign and trades?  Who else?  Darius Garland?  Sure, and Knicks gave him a long second look. DeAndre Hunter?  Excellent 3&D with an NBA-ready outside shot.  Both players with serious up side.  S&T?  Hachimura, Reddish, Coby White?  Impressive talents.  But while RJ's long range jumper and FT shooting are works in progress, I like what Wally said about him last night, how THE GAME IS SLOWING DOWN for RJ.  One of the reasons Fizz is so enamored of him, and can't seem to keep him off the floor, is because he makes good things happen, with or without the ball, on both ends of the court, and he is already PLAYING LIKE A LEADER.  Of course he is still a puppy, and will have plenty of speed bumps, but he said he was ready for the challenge of NY, and so far, the motherfucker seems up to it. 

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61-B2PP1FAL._SX260_.jpg) (http://)

PPS: RJ is a personable, intelligent and exceptionally handsome young man, but has anyone noticed the interesting contours of his cranium when viewed in profile. 

Title: Roster Moves
Post by: chipstern on October 19, 2019, 12:35:29 PM
Adam Zagoria: The Knicks have waived VJ King, Lamar Peters and Kenny Wooten. They now have 16 players on the roster, including one Two-Way. – via Twitter AdamZagoria
Title: Genetic Connections
Post by: chipstern on October 19, 2019, 12:42:29 PM
Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, a team mate of Kevin Knox's at Kentucky, a real up and coming talent, and a key piece in the Clippers-Thunder trade for Paul George? 

His cousin NICKEIL ALEXANDER-WALKER, 6'5" combo guard, really lit the Knicks up last night: 7-11. and 3-4 from trey.  For that matter, JJ Reddick was 5-7 and 3-4 from trey, while Josh Hart was 6-9 and 3-6 from trey.  Well, 9-17 from trey.  There's the ball game. 

Title: Re: Genetic Connections
Post by: chipstern on October 19, 2019, 12:48:08 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 19, 2019, 12:42:29 PM
Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, a team mate of Kevin Knox's at Kentucky, a real up and coming talent, and a key piece in the Clippers-Thunder trade for Paul George? 

His cousin NICKEIL ALEXANDER-WALKER, 6'5" combo guard, really lit the Knicks up last night: 7-11. and 3-4 from trey.  For that matter, JJ Reddick was 5-7 and 3-4 from trey, while Josh Hart was 6-9 and 3-6 from trey.  Well, 9-17 from trey.  There's the ball game.

Randle and Ellington were a combined 7-14; Knicks en total were 13-33, while the Pelicans were 17-41. 

REBOUNDING: Pelicans 45-43

ASSISTS: Knicks 23-21

TURNOVERS: Knicks 18-21

So...something resembling progress. 

With the Pelicans outside shooting, scary to think of them with a healthy Zion. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 19, 2019, 08:26:57 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 19, 2019, 03:57:56 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 18, 2019, 08:54:57 PM
And Langston Galloway.

They like Frank. Who says they lie LG

Should be vindication for those here in the FN camp. A top 14 protected 1 is your best hope. Or 2 number 2s which we of course do well with

Or we could keep him, play him, and actually win some games.

Since we don’t have players soft enough for you, you could always become a Nets fan.

Have yet to chose a West team for this year

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 19, 2019, 08:41:21 PM
That game last night was super interesting to watch. Barrett is the real shit. Oddly I wasn't sure about his level at Duke, but I'm impressed every game. The dude has the capacity to rise above others.

But yeah, we have a point guard problem. I had no high hopes for Smith Jr., based on his play for us last year, but who the fuck knows. I'm just looking for someone who can LEAD out there. Randal is great, but without a strong PG, you can see the dark potential for....well, those last 30 seconds.

Speaking of that, I know it's pre-season, but Kid seemed on the mark writing about the Knicks disfunction at the end of games. THAT I put on coaches, not players. Fizdale is making millions, so I don't think it's much to ask for well-designed plays and smart time management. But game after game last that, I didn't see that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 19, 2019, 08:47:38 PM
9.6 mil collar added in Exum next year?

I'll pass, thanks
Title: Re: Roster Moves
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 19, 2019, 09:17:59 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 19, 2019, 12:35:29 PM
Adam Zagoria: The Knicks have waived VJ King, Lamar Peters and Kenny Wooten. They now have 16 players on the roster, including one Two-Way. – via Twitter AdamZagoria


No surprises
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 20, 2019, 01:38:26 AM
I think Exum would be a bad idea for this team even if he was on a cheapy contract.  But yeah, Utah signed him for a $10M 3 or 4 year deal.  Blech.

Wow, Siakim just got a max deal.
Kinda crazy.  Very interesting young player, but he's been a starter for just one year, needs to up his usage this year with Kawhi gone, i would have waited.  Is Siakim really a $30M max level player.  Not now.  If you sign him early (this Summer) for say $22M, that's good.  Give him security and get him locked up longterm.  But not sure why you lock in a max deal early before a player is at that level.  Developmnet is always linear -- look at Tatum last year. 

Siakim is a tenacious defender, terrific running the floor, odd pointy-elbow drives and awkward/effective spin moves.  Can he be best player on a contender?  2nd best?  I woulda waited.

Good to hear Barrett is looking good.  There's definitely room on the team for a slasher, athlete, energy guy.  Kind of what we are lacking.  (among other things).  Trier has some of that, though with inattentive D.

Endgame situations are easier when you have go-to studs, players familiar with each other, good ballhandlers, etc.  Again I see it as another development year for the coaching staff s well as the players.  W's mostly meaningless again, unless you think we can sneak into the playoffs.  To me, a whole year to evaluate Fizz with a decent but weird crowded roster. And I'll start worrying about Fiz & Co. next year.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 20, 2019, 11:12:58 AM
development year for a coach????

lol.

Knicks were Budenholzer's first choice. Ain't been a bigger swing n' miss since Weiss/Artest.

We don't need a year to evaluate Fiz and you don't need all-stars to evaluate end game or time-out strategy progress (none, so far). Fifth-grade players would suffice.

His undeserved blank notebook opens up Oct. 23. Suspect won't need to fill 82 pages.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 20, 2019, 12:26:19 PM
Well, we didn't hire a veteran coach.  So you have to allow your young coach to learn and grow.  Patience. 

We've given him a lot of roster churn and not that great talent.  I wasn't a Fizz fan, but I thought last year he did allow everyone to show their stuff and most of our yute and reclamations improved.  And he got us a very high draft pick.  I have last year marked as a success. 

I expect a little more from Fizz this year, and some more W's, but it's again a development year, with little continuity, lots of new faces, a crowded roster, lots of yute and vets who need/want minutes.  Not an easy gig. 

I'd call this Y2 of a 5 to 7 year development process.  So I'm willing to be patient.  Including with the coaching.  I don't see any benefit from coaching churn. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 20, 2019, 03:27:30 PM
jeez...doesn't that fact that I'm still here imply patience? Now in it's 20th, er...48th year.

OK. 

You go Fizz. Show me...
Title: Fizzy
Post by: carlos123 on October 20, 2019, 04:23:50 PM
I thought coaches were supposed to be teachers.

Guess that does not apply to Phony Phizz. He’s learning.

OK 👌
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 20, 2019, 04:40:07 PM
Knicks were Budenholzer's first choice.


White dude
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 20, 2019, 06:10:13 PM
I don't think it's surprising or unusual that there is a learning curve to being an NBA head coach.

Last year I thought everyone -- lots of unknown yute and reclamations -- improved or exceeded expectations, except Franc and Zonja.  I give Fizz credit for that.  He seems good at empowering and developing young players.  This year he has that to do, while mixing in a lot of vets as well.

It'd be nice if the Knix could have some stability and continuity -- front office, coaches, players.  I'd like to see Fizz get 3 solid years to prove his worth.  Players seem to like him and he seems a good development coach.  Maybe he can grow with the team and become a long term fixture.  Maybe he's just a 3 year development coach and can hand off the development to a coach who can take us to the playoffs.

I like that the Knix were finally willing to bottom out and get a high pick.  Wish we did it with the talented KZ in the hold.  We're about to start Y2 of a (mostly) total rebuild. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 20, 2019, 08:01:06 PM
Why was Fizdale really fired from Memphis?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 20, 2019, 08:52:48 PM
Nice job by Bradley Beal, accepting less than MAX from Wizards (Beal gets 2-72 extension)
Title: Budenholzer
Post by: chipstern on October 21, 2019, 12:05:38 AM
Is it worth suggesting that perhaps Coach has a more talented, coherent roster, a genuine superstar, and a more mature, culture in place to work with than Fizz has to work with in NY. 

PS: You want to talk about shitty play calling?  How the Giants Coach Murmur.  That draw play on third and long made my widdle head explode.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 21, 2019, 12:19:28 AM
Lance Thomas did not in fact make the Nets. Watch out Jimmer. Lance may be coming for your roster spot. He’d probably enjoy playing in Greece. Based on his handles, he’s been doing it his whole career.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 21, 2019, 09:59:12 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 20, 2019, 08:52:48 PM
Nice job by Bradley Beal, accepting less than MAX from Wizards (Beal gets 2-72 extension)

It's not a discount.
He did this two year deal in order to sign the max for a 10-year veteran deal in two years.
In line for an additional 260mil over 5 years. 
The maximum max that ever was maxed.
Highest paid player ever in any sport ...etc...etc...
Title: Giants
Post by: Kam on October 21, 2019, 10:02:21 AM
Quote from: chipstern on October 21, 2019, 12:05:38 AM

PS: You want to talk about shitty play calling?  How the Giants Coach Murmur.  That draw play on third and long made my widdle head explode.

Shurmur was a John Mara hire.  He's the exact right temperment that the G-men crave in a head coach.  But that only goes so far when you're losing games.

He needs some top assistant coaches if the Giants ever want to win. 
And some more talent on the lines.

Why have the Giants never kicked the tires on Andy Reid?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 21, 2019, 11:08:46 AM
Quote from: Kam on October 21, 2019, 09:59:12 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 20, 2019, 08:52:48 PM
Nice job by Bradley Beal, accepting less than MAX from Wizards (Beal gets 2-72 extension)

It's not a discount.
He did this two year deal in order to sign the max for a 10-year veteran deal in two years.
In line for an additional 260mil over 5 years. 
The maximum max that ever was maxed.
Highest paid player ever in any sport ...etc...etc...

right..

good job nevertheless
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 21, 2019, 11:12:47 AM
If someone wants to give Beal 4/198 in a couple years, good luck to them.  Wiz arent doing 5/266.  Likely they deal him after he is eligible to be dealt again - at that trade deadline date.  But that line could change should Hachimura and company get the team to playoff level
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 21, 2019, 11:17:49 AM
Sabonis reportedly being shopped.  Nice player.
Of course, Knix already loaded up on PF's.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 21, 2019, 11:37:54 AM
Do we have a Win prediction list teed up?
I think I made a pick around 30.
Season close to starting.

I don't have a good read on this team.
Didn't see any Summer or Pre-season.
27-34 is probably the range.

Guess I should check what the "experts" have predicted.
Title: Roster
Post by: Kam on October 21, 2019, 12:50:39 PM
I just see too many players who duplicate each other and few obvious starters. 
Randle and Morris starting as the Forwards.   Who knows who the other three starters will be, and if Fizz will keep tinkering with the lineup every 5 games like last year.

One of the signs that Fizz is going a credible job is if he keeps this roster of players from requesting a trade.  If after 25 games certain guys roles have been reduced to zero their will surely be grumblings as our starters aren't a far cry superior to our bench players.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 21, 2019, 01:02:47 PM
Oh, I expect grumbling.
Morris and Porter are emotional guys, with a bit of jerkiness to them.  Taj likely wants 20 mins a night and he's not shy either.
And that's not even getting to our guard play.
I still think a mid-season trade is likely for Morris/Franc with maybe Taj in the mix as well.

And yes, I'm already mulling over Morris + one of Jr. Smith/Elf for Sabonis.  Though with Randle on board at PF, that probably doesn't work.  Though Randle could me moved too . . . 

But Morris and Elf would really be useful for filling holes in IND.
They need a PG until Oladipo gets back.  They need a stretch PF to match with MyTurn (and replace Thad).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 21, 2019, 01:05:37 PM
Barrett and Mitch seem pretty locked in at least initially. I like Frank as the other guard, though it will probably be Dennis. Trier is my dark horse favorite to snatch the spot, but I expect to see DSJ get first crack.

Taj and Frank will both get 20+ minutes as they are the run away best defenders in the front court and back court respectively.

33 wins.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 21, 2019, 01:20:24 PM
I don't see Franc getting that much court time.
But if he does, then one of Smith/Elf is tradable.

How do you see the G minutes divvied up?

I don't think we brought Elf & Ellingotn in to not play ...
Title: Frontcourt psychology - backcourt dichotomy
Post by: Kam on October 21, 2019, 01:22:32 PM
You could start a frontline of

C: Taj
PF: Randle
SF: Morris

Give Portis time at backup to the above.
Get the veteran forwards happy with their roles. 
Mitchell and Kevin are less likely to make waves.

Once the larger bodies in the locker room have their pecking order it behooves team chemistry that the backcourt bros find their levels.  The Elf-DSjr schizm could rip the team apart.  Combined they would make a decent PG, but you can't start both unless you commit RJ and Trier to the pine as bench microwaves. 

The "Bench microwave" role suits Trier and RJ at this point in his development but you can't use two microwaves at once ... unless the rest of the three players are basically there for spacing. How would that look?

Well I really doubt it happens but a 2nd unit led by
RJ as the ballhandler
IsoZo as the other G,
with a frontcourt of Ellington*, Knox*, Portis^ would be fun to watch slash rimward and bomb away.

You have the required spacing for the slashers to work.


----

*such a unit would mean end of bench roles for Dotson and Frank
^I would have liked to put Mitchell here but without a jumpshot to draw away defenders his man would clog the lane on defense. 

Dotson, Frank, and Mitch would see smaller roles, as well as Knox from last year.  But if you have to piss someone off with minutes it should be the 2nd/3rd year players who get squeezed while you appease the veterans and maintain the locker room. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 21, 2019, 02:02:28 PM
Wow, that would be the all-time worst defensive 2nd unit . . .

Also, you have Mitch out of the rotation.  Wow.

Seems awful to not start even one of RJB, Mitch, Knox.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 21, 2019, 02:17:03 PM
New York Knicks Projections

ESPN      BPI           538       VEGAS
26-56    29-53      20-62     27 wins


So it looks like the consensus is 26 -29 W's.

I think I initially said 29, but thinking maybe 30.
30 looks so much nicer.
We should have too much talent to fall below 26.
And I think 35 or 36 would be the max if everything falls right.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 21, 2019, 02:17:32 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 21, 2019, 11:17:49 AM
Sabonis reportedly being shopped.  Nice player.
Of course, Knix already loaded up on PF's.

I think potential trades will be viewed on their effect on 2020-21 and beyond.  What's Li'l Saba's contract situation?  And what do they seek?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 21, 2019, 02:27:44 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 21, 2019, 02:02:28 PM
Wow, that would be the all-time worst defensive 2nd unit . . .


Outscore the other 2nd unit = you did your job on defense.

Sometimes the best defense is offense.

The 2nd unit wouldn't be playing defense vs first units.  So it's not a big worry.

This unit would be put in for offense.   Lapups, FTs,  and 3s aka the modern game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 21, 2019, 02:31:07 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 21, 2019, 02:02:28 PM

Seems awful to not start even one of RJB, Mitch, Knox.

Yes that is why i said i really don't think it will happen because POLITICS say you gotta start your youth.

But we loaded the roster with veterans who won't be happy watching young guys eff up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 21, 2019, 02:51:08 PM
Randle and Morris starting as the Forwards.   Who knows who the other three starters will be, and if Fizz will keep tinkering with the lineup every 5 games like last year.


Barrett

Point guard share

Just need to decide on Mitch starting - or Portis - or Taj

I'd guess we see BP opening night - and I dont care which point starts
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 21, 2019, 02:52:58 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 21, 2019, 02:31:07 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 21, 2019, 02:02:28 PM

Seems awful to not start even one of RJB, Mitch, Knox.

Yes that is why i said i really don't think it will happen because POLITICS say you gotta start your youth.

But we loaded the roster with veterans who won't be happy watching young guys eff up.

We don't have any Waiters on the team.  These guys will pull for each other.  The check is the same no matter the minutes
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 21, 2019, 02:58:12 PM
And yes, I'm already mulling over Morris + one of Jr. Smith/Elf for Sabonis.  Though with Randle on board at PF, that probably doesn't work.  Though Randle could me moved too . . .



Good Lord
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 21, 2019, 03:08:34 PM
http://nypost.com/2019/10/21/knicks-decide-contract-fate-of-frank-ntilikina-dennis-smith/ (http://nypost.com/2019/10/21/knicks-decide-contract-fate-of-frank-ntilikina-dennis-smith/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 21, 2019, 03:12:20 PM
McMillian doesnt think Pacers need a point

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nba/pacers/2019/10/13/indiana-pacers-tj-mcconnell-energy-deep-guard-group-aaron-holiday/3895732002/?utm_source=oembed&utm_medium=onsite&utm_campaign=storylines&utm_content=news&utm_term=3880546002
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 21, 2019, 03:49:27 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 21, 2019, 02:52:58 PM
We don't have any Waiters on the team.  These guys will pull for each other.  The check is the same no matter the minutes

Not the way competitive people think.
And not even true.
Morris for instance is on a 1 year deal and playing for his next contract.  Minutes and numbers this year affect his next contract.
The same for a couple others if they don't get minutes and then we don't pick up their 2nd year option.
Title: Pacers ink Sabonis
Post by: Kam on October 21, 2019, 04:24:58 PM
4yrs/77mil
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 21, 2019, 04:42:34 PM
Decisions should not in any way be based on player feelings or popular opinion. If they happen to match up, great. It should be about winning and building a team that can consistently win.

I like that Randle made some defensive plays against the Pels. The focus needs to be on cutting down the plays on which he’s lazy or lost. Bobby needs a better understanding of his job as a defender. He’s much more likely to be out of place or late than to give up on a play.

Taj, Marcus, RJ, and Frank look like they’ll be our most competent and consistent defenders. The nice thing about those four is you can play literally anyone else on the roster with them and they slide naturally into the other four positions. You have 1st option guys in Morris and Barrett, and guys who look to support in Taj and Frank. I expect this more as a choice finishing games before if ever it starts.

Randle, Knox, Mitch, DSJ, Trier, Ellington, and Bobby look ready to take roles around this defensive core. Dotson could get into that group and move ahead of some guys if he gets right and finds his legs.

I think Fizz starts with a rotation something like

Mitch Bobby
Randle Taj
Morris Knox
RJ Trier Ellington
DSJ Frank

Dot and Elfrid as next up and Reggie and Ignas in Street clothes.

On offense, all the bigs need to up their games in doing preparatory work for the guards, both because they can, and because the guards need serious help. The guards need to do more cutting to bend the D and create lanes as well as working to be more available spotting up or flashing. Wayne, Morris, and Trier are best at this with Knox and RJ coming along. This is a particular weakness in Franks game that Fizz needs to address.

I’ll enjoy watching the work this season and right now I hope it will lead to some progress.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jerrya on October 21, 2019, 05:54:46 PM
Was thinking of take the over 28 for the total games Knicks with this year...any opinions, good or bad?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on October 21, 2019, 06:06:32 PM
The range from Vegas, etc. has been about what I was thinking.

26 wins

Hopefully I'm wrong.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 21, 2019, 06:37:53 PM
Quote from: Jerrya on October 21, 2019, 05:54:46 PM
Was thinking of take the over 28 for the total games Knicks with this year...any opinions, good or bad?

Take the over. We’ll scrap and we’ll win a few above our weight class.
Title: Pom Pom Gurl Weighs In
Post by: chipstern on October 21, 2019, 07:57:34 PM
39-43
Title: A Damn Shame
Post by: chipstern on October 21, 2019, 08:08:27 PM
Chris Haynes: New Orleans Pelicans say Zion Williamson underwent surgery to repair a torn right meniscus and is scheduled to be sidelined 6-to-8 weeks. – via Twitter ChrisBHaynes
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 21, 2019, 09:31:50 PM
Morris for instance is on a 1 year deal and playing for his next contract.  Minutes and numbers this year affect his next contract.


Disagree.  He's a known commodity.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 21, 2019, 09:32:29 PM
And - I don't think he goes anywhere.  Good guy to keep around.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 21, 2019, 09:37:59 PM
Last preseason game - Wally S surmises that Fiz wanted Randle to hit the winning shot vs his old team

Please....

Not a  big Trier guy - as you know - but the guy with 14 4th Q points should have the rock there.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 21, 2019, 09:51:51 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 21, 2019, 09:37:59 PM
Last preseason game - Wally S surmises that Fiz wanted Randle to hit the winning shot vs his old team

Please....

Not a  big Trier guy - as you know - but the guy with 14 4th Q points should have the rock there.

Agree. 

Can understand Fizz's thought process in a pre-season game.

In the regular season, one has to believe Trier would have had the rock. 
Title: Re: Pacers ink Sabonis
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 21, 2019, 10:07:27 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 21, 2019, 04:24:58 PM
4yrs/77mil

Turner money

Makes sense
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 22, 2019, 12:39:28 AM
Morris is playing for his last contract, one that he hopes will take him from age 31 - 34.  His numbers this year will even determine whether he can get 4 years guaranteed, or just 3.  he needs a team willing to want him strongly enough the next 2 years (after this) to offer him a 4 year deal.  That's mainly what he's playing for.  Which could be the difference over the next 4 years of $10+M.  If he only gets a 2 or 3 year deal, he loses a lot.  This is the main reason he was amenable to a 1 year deal this year.  To cash in on the most on his last contract, of he hopes 4 years.

But even the starting figure and  the first 2 or 3 years of his next deal partly depends on his production this year.   He could lose $3 - $5M upfront just by not being productive or not starting or not finishing, or not getting enough minutes.  But his main concern is a 3rd and 4th year.

And all this is true whether the Knix keep him or he goes elsewher.
Title: PS: You Heard It Here FIRST
Post by: chipstern on October 22, 2019, 01:59:33 AM
As I projected some posts back...

The Knicks did indeed pick up the option on both Smith AND Ntilikina's contracts. 

PS: I should only be so lucky with my parallel projection of a 39-43 record for 2019-2020. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 22, 2019, 04:25:01 AM
To get to 39 W's, one of Jr. Smith/Elf would have to establish himself as a legit starting PG.  Barrett would have to be a top rook.  Mitch would have to improve and not foul so much.  And some instant chemistry would have to arrive. With Randle playing at an all-star level and two of Morris, Knox, Portis contributing strongly.

We'd also need to get good 3-point shooting (group effort?), solid defense, and someone (or two) emerge as a go-to scorer.
Seems like an awful ot to ask.  Hell, all that happens and we could get 42 W's.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on October 22, 2019, 07:50:36 AM
Agree with you Bo on what it would take for Chip’s win prediction to come to fruition.

Meanwhile how about who should be the starting 5 tomorrow and in the rotation?

I’m going with:

Payton
RJ
Mitch
Morris
Randle

DSJ
Portis
Frank
Wellington

Knox and Trier have to work their way in. I thought I heard Dotson is injured. I think he’ll be traded anyway.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 22, 2019, 08:46:24 AM
Team will struggle to finish 32-50 - I will say this is our ceiling

Best question is when will we see the first "TANK" mention here and in the press?
Title: NBA over/unders - pool 5/5
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 22, 2019, 09:24:21 AM
Pick 5 overs and 5 unders

I will compile picks and put them on NBA board for easy viewing

PICKS NEED TO BE IN BY SUNDAY 10/27


Atlanta     34
Boston     49.5
Brooklyn    42.5
Charlotte    23
Chicago      34

Cleveland    24
Dallas     42.5
Devver     53.5
Detroit      37.5
Golden State     47.5

Houston     54.5
Indiana     46.5
LA Clippers     52.5
LA Lakers     48.5
Memphis     27.5

Miami     44.5
Milwaukee     57.5
Minnesota      35.5
New Orleans     39
New York     27.5

Oklahaoma City   32
Orlando      42.5
Philadelphia     55
Phoeniz     29.5
Portland     45.5

Sacramento     38.5
San Antonio    45.5
Toronto      46
Utah       53.5
Washington       26.5

http://www.vegasinsider.com/nba/story.cfm/story/1976661
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 22, 2019, 09:34:44 AM
Brandon Ingram not extended

UFA next summer

Others - add if you like

Bogdan Bogdanovic
Josh Jackson

4-115 extension for Jaylen Brown (103 guaranteed)
Title: A Fresh Wrinkle To Start The Season
Post by: chipstern on October 22, 2019, 12:39:15 PM
Ian Begley: Knicks center Mitchell Robinson suffered a sprained right ankle in practice on Monday and is questionable for Wednesday’s opener in San Antonio. – via Twitter IanBegley
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 22, 2019, 01:08:59 PM
Shoot......

have to make adjustments to my fantasy team

Recall - staying healthy was one of my concerns for Mitchell
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 22, 2019, 01:10:38 PM
Brandon Clarke in, Robinson to bench
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 22, 2019, 08:58:57 PM
Alexander-Walker is a chucker

I like the way Okafor has looked pre - and tonight
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 23, 2019, 04:19:51 AM
I didn't realize the season started.
Lakers really have an iffy bench.  Looks like the Clips 2nd unit steamrolled them.
Edit: The Clippers' reserves outscored the Lakers' bench, 60-19.

Apparently, CCTv didn't show the games.
Must be first time in over 20 years opening day games weren't televised in China.

Put me down for 29 Knick W's.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on October 23, 2019, 08:21:36 AM
I think the Knicks problem has been consistency.  We cannot keep rolling out different lineups to see what works.  I'd start D.Smith, Trier, Knox, Randle and Taj for stability in the young lineup.  Bringing in Robinson to learn not foul so much.  I would let that unit play for the first two weeks and let them get familiar with the plays and each other, build some kind of chemistry.  Do you realize the knicks has not had any continuity since the Ewing days.  We been rolling out lineups like a firing squad.  Stick to a lineup, any lineup and let them play together for awhile before playing guess who starting this week game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 23, 2019, 08:36:12 AM
I'd guess we see BP opening night - and I dont care which point starts


This was in fact the decision made prior to Robinson's injury

TAJ also questionable tonight
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 23, 2019, 08:40:59 AM
Quote from: jaqdavisone on October 23, 2019, 08:21:36 AM
I think the Knicks problem has been consistency.  We cannot keep rolling out different lineups to see what works.  I'd start D.Smith, Trier, Knox, Randle and Tajfor stability in the young lineup.  Bringing in Robinson to learn not foul so much.  I would let that unit play for the first two weeks and let them get familiar with the plays and each other, build some kind of chemistry.  Do you realize the knicks has not had any continuity since the Ewing days.  We been rolling out lineups like a firing squad.  Stick to a lineup, any lineup and let them play together for awhile before playing guess who starting this week game.

Did you sleep through the 2019 draft and not follow the preseason?  :)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 23, 2019, 09:29:47 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 23, 2019, 04:19:51 AM
I didn't realize the season started.

Blame DARYL MOREY
Title: Win Prediction
Post by: Kam on October 23, 2019, 09:39:49 AM
I think the Knicks will win 29 games.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on October 23, 2019, 09:47:07 AM
Did you sleep through the 2019 draft and not follow the preseason?  :)  Kidcarter feed me more.  What do you mean?????
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 23, 2019, 11:16:20 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 23, 2019, 04:19:51 AM

Apparently, CCTv didn't show the games.
Must be first time in over 20 years opening day games weren't televised in China.


Bo,

How is the NBA consumed in China?  Do you need to pay a cable contract to get CCTv?
Title: Knicks signing 6'10 PF/C Ivan Rabb
Post by: Kam on October 23, 2019, 11:31:46 AM
to a two-way deal


Here is the Grizzly fans take on IRabb:

Quote
Rabb fit what Memphis once was. He has an old school game, one where he can play with his back to the basket and rebound and defend the rim not as well as a Gasol but in a similar fashion. Where he had his greatest issue was in the fact he was not truly elite at any of these skills. He showed flashes of potentially rebounding well, or scoring at the rim efficiently, but he did neither of these things well enough to negate his limitations...especially defensively in terms of rotation and switching.

He was given opportunities. The extension of his team option to October 19th allowed for Ivan to get a full training camp in with Memphis, and also get plenty of work in with the Grizzlies staff as they were trying to find what he was capable of within their schemes. But it would appear that pretty quickly, Jenkins and his crew realized that worst case scenario they could get basic rim protection from Bruno Caboclo while utilizing his offensive game more effectively given his athleticism and range.

Rabb will surely get looks at least in the G-League, and it is unlikely he will never play in the NBA again. But Ivan must grow his game, offensively in particular, to make teams see his gift at that end worth the loss of positional versatility.

He is only 22,  so improvement is possible.  He needs to get stronger like any young player (not named Williamson).  But the ceiling is low.  He could be a younger Taj Gibson.
Title: Re: A Fresh Wrinkle To Start The Season
Post by: Kam on October 23, 2019, 12:13:32 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 22, 2019, 12:39:15 PM
Ian Begley: Knicks center Mitchell Robinson suffered a sprained right ankle in practice on Monday and is questionable for Wednesday’s opener in San Antonio. – via Twitter IanBegley

He is officially out for the game tonight vs. SAS.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 23, 2019, 12:41:34 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 23, 2019, 09:29:47 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 23, 2019, 04:19:51 AM
I didn't realize the season started.

Blame DARYL MOREY

LOL.  I think you nailed it.
Him and those pesky HK rioters.

Quote from: Kam on October 23, 2019, 11:16:20 AM
Bo,
How is the NBA consumed in China?  Do you need to pay a cable contract to get CCTv?

Cable TV is rather cheap in Shanghai.
It was $2 per month for a long time.  But I think it doubled to $4 two or three years ago.  I forget what I pay.  But TV is the opiate of the people, Chinese love TV, and the gov't loves folks being sedated in such fashion.  I have roughly 90 channels, including 3 sports stations and of course all 13 CCTV channels.
CCTV 5 and the SH Sports station usually show NBA games live in the morning and replay them around 10:PM.  So I catch what I can.

I've been considering buying a Tv box device (for around $60 - $80) which lets you watch hundreds of international channels from various countries via the internet on your very own TV.  Any channel not included you can just download the site info, save the download to a thumb drive and download that to the funky cable box. 

One such sketchy Tv cable box I saw demonstrated had MSG on it.  Another cheaper one didn't, but the guy looked it up and found the download info in under 1 minute.

I probably should go it, as my Slingbox is nearly useless as the gov't throttles overseas internet connections (the intranet within China is apparently fast).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 23, 2019, 12:52:42 PM
My preferred lineup (given health) would be:
Jr. Smith
Barrett
Morris
Randle
Mitch

That gets 3 yute starting.
Has at least two guys who play D, and a rook who seems to try.
Barrett and Smith are athletic.
Let's RJB  facilitate some.
A decent two-way team.

Not great ballhandling or passing.
Not great 3-shooting.
But that's true of our whole team really.

Elf - Trier - Knox - Portis - Taj as 2nd unit.

Later can adjust if Taj needs to start.  Or Elf is our best PG.  Or we need Trier's scoring.  I'd like Knox to get lots of minutes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 23, 2019, 01:44:47 PM
Quote from: jaqdavisone on October 23, 2019, 09:47:07 AM
Did you sleep through the 2019 draft and not follow the preseason?  :)  Kidcarter feed me more.  What do you mean?????

I dont see Barrett in your starting lineup, is all.
Title: Re: A Fresh Wrinkle To Start The Season
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 23, 2019, 01:46:53 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 23, 2019, 12:13:32 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 22, 2019, 12:39:15 PM
Ian Begley: Knicks center Mitchell Robinson suffered a sprained right ankle in practice on Monday and is questionable for Wednesday’s opener in San Antonio. – via Twitter IanBegley

He is officially out for the game tonight vs. SAS.

Is Gibson playing?

Poetl may have a big game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 23, 2019, 01:48:41 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 23, 2019, 12:52:42 PM
My preferred lineup (given health) would be:
Jr. Smith
Barrett
Morris
Randle
Mitch

That gets 3 yute starting.
Has at least two guys who play D, and a rook who seems to try.
Barrett and Smith are athletic.
Let's RJB  facilitate some.
A decent two-way team.

Not great ballhandling or passing.
Not great 3-shooting.
But that's true of our whole team really.

Elf - Trier - Knox - Portis - Taj as 2nd unit.

Later can adjust if Taj needs to start.  Or Elf is our best PG.  Or we need Trier's scoring.  I'd like Knox to get lots of minutes.

I think Ellington was signed to PLAY.  Bur we'll see.
Title: Re: Knicks signing 6'10 PF/C Ivan Rabb
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 23, 2019, 01:56:02 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 23, 2019, 11:31:46 AM
to a two-way deal


Here is the Grizzly fans take on IRabb:

Quote
Rabb fit what Memphis once was. He has an old school game, one where he can play with his back to the basket and rebound and defend the rim not as well as a Gasol but in a similar fashion. Where he had his greatest issue was in the fact he was not truly elite at any of these skills. He showed flashes of potentially rebounding well, or scoring at the rim efficiently, but he did neither of these things well enough to negate his limitations...especially defensively in terms of rotation and switching.

He was given opportunities. The extension of his team option to October 19th allowed for Ivan to get a full training camp in with Memphis, and also get plenty of work in with the Grizzlies staff as they were trying to find what he was capable of within their schemes. But it would appear that pretty quickly, Jenkins and his crew realized that worst case scenario they could get basic rim protection from Bruno Caboclo while utilizing his offensive game more effectively given his athleticism and range.

Rabb will surely get looks at least in the G-League, and it is unlikely he will never play in the NBA again. But Ivan must grow his game, offensively in particular, to make teams see his gift at that end worth the loss of positional versatility.

He is only 22,  so improvement is possible.  He needs to get stronger like any young player (not named Williamson).  But the ceiling is low.  He could be a younger Taj Gibson.

Would have liked a look at Kris Wilkes but I guess he wasn't healthy.  Knicks will follow him, maybe take him on later
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 23, 2019, 04:18:23 PM
I'm not into Ellingtonia.
I'm hoping Trier gets a chance to show that he is as good or better. than El.  If we struggle with the 3, or Trier flails, than I'd use Ellington.  But we'll see how Fizz handles it.  El Train is a vet chucker.

It's a crowded roster, and one or two guys will find themselves out of the rotation.

Fizz might go with Ellington some games, Trier others.  But I'd rather one guy is in the rotation and one out.  Not even to mention Datsun, our other interesting young SG.  And I left Franc out, but hope he gets a lot of burn.
Title: DEPTH & The Clown Car That Are OUR KNICKS
Post by: chipstern on October 23, 2019, 05:06:50 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 23, 2019, 04:18:23 PM
I'm not into Ellingtonia.
I'm hoping Trier gets a chance to show that he is as good or better. than El.  If we struggle with the 3, or Trier flails, than I'd use Ellington.  But we'll see how Fizz handles it.  El Train is a vet chucker.

It's a crowded roster, and one or two guys will find themselves out of the rotation.

Fizz might go with Ellington some games, Trier others.  But I'd rather one guy is in the rotation and one out.  Not even to mention Datsun, our other interesting young SG.  And I left Franc out, but hope he gets a lot of burn.

What Ellington was NOT GETTING in preseason, were looks where his feet are set, and he is in rhythm, off of ball movement. 

That is his gift. 

Creating his own shot, one on one play, mmmmm, not so much.  THAT would be SAY HEY RED DICK (a bad pun, which I present to you as a gift to the master of such things). 

Trier can create his own shot, and if he is really doing his job, he can create open looks for others as defenses collapse upon him. 

God knows, if we establish someone to consistently rudder the point, break down the defenses off of penetration, then Jukeless Ellington is a dangerous weapon.  If not, then Trier or Dotson are going to be petitioning for floor time. 

Probably one of the reasons Fizz might be taking a long hard look at an RJ/Alonzo back court in certain situations, and has been calling out his team for one-on-one/ball sticking. 

Our defense has been coming along...offensive identity?

Stay tuned. 

DEPTH.

Too many PF/C?

Well, what if neither Mitch NOR Taj can play tonight? 

All of a sudden, Randle is a center, Morris is a PF, Knox is a SF/PF, Barrett is a SG/SF/PG...and the likelihood that we see a series of Small Ball Sets with KNOX-BARRETT and some combo of Smith/Peyton/Ntilinkina & Trier/Ellington/Dotson will be in play.   

Anyway...

(https://media1.giphy.com/media/1292X6OCdUE3V6/giphy.gif)

5...4...3...2...1

And AWAY WE GO. 

(https://media3.giphy.com/media/lhRMtT8xv2Hte/giphy.gif)
Title: Oooooooops...
Post by: chipstern on October 23, 2019, 05:17:18 PM
Forgot Bobby Portis. 

My bad. 

Probably come off the bench with Knox to spell Randle and Morris. 

PS: Let's see who if anyone steps up to guard LaMarcus Aldridge, a certified Knicks Nemesis. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 23, 2019, 05:25:32 PM
Murmurs out of San Antone that TRIER will start alongside Barrett.

Interesting.
Title: Perry & Mills
Post by: chipstern on October 23, 2019, 05:26:59 PM
No Dawg, Don Carlos I cannot make out the light at the end of the tunnel.

However....

For the first time in maybe 20 years, I can actually make out a tunnel. 

RJ
Alonzo
Mitchell
Kevin

Dot
Dennis
Frank
Iggy

(https://66.media.tumblr.com/35c473cececace68d7f48f3bf2e0e49d/98d1e2d00c5e460c-34/s640x960/559e079a8b496e532e40c76ea549904d8281aab2.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 23, 2019, 05:28:19 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 23, 2019, 05:25:32 PM
Murmurs out of San Antone that TRIER will start alongside Barrett.

Interesting.

THAT would be INTERESTING.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 23, 2019, 05:29:23 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 23, 2019, 05:28:19 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 23, 2019, 05:25:32 PM
Murmurs out of San Antone that TRIER will start alongside Barrett.

Interesting.

THAT would be INTERESTING.

Think that might light a fire under the collective buttocks of our three-headed PG Scrum? 
Title: Re: Oooooooops...
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 23, 2019, 05:30:57 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 23, 2019, 05:17:18 PM
Forgot Bobby Portis. 

My bad. 

Probably come off the bench with Knox to spell Randle and Morris. 

PS: Let's see who if anyone steps up to guard LaMarcus Aldridge, a certified Knicks Nemesis.

Bobby will start
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 23, 2019, 07:38:23 PM
Fultz scores 8 points in 7 minutes out of the gate
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 23, 2019, 08:44:54 PM
Barrett cant play point

I thought they were having Trier handle it
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 23, 2019, 09:03:35 PM
15 point first

And no Payton

Sick
Title: Dennis Smith
Post by: chipstern on October 23, 2019, 09:16:11 PM
So far?

A disaster. 
Title: The Ghost of Glen Grunwald Past
Post by: chipstern on October 23, 2019, 09:20:33 PM
Jakob Peltl?

Raptors draft him with the #1 they copped from the Knicks in the Bargnani Trade. 

Meanwhile...

Peyton/Barrett back court a better balance. 

Look for Frank to get some floor time to try and put the kibbosh on Murray...

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 23, 2019, 09:43:53 PM
Yes.....

The Knicks need a PG.

Is the right man on the team?

(if so, where is he hiding?)

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 23, 2019, 10:02:59 PM
Kemba got TEN points

Kyrie gonna go for FIFTY

Love it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 23, 2019, 10:10:38 PM
EP, baby!!!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 23, 2019, 10:21:08 PM
UGH!  Frank.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 23, 2019, 11:00:03 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 23, 2019, 10:10:38 PM
EP, baby!!!!!

Got that right. 
Title: Brain Farts
Post by: chipstern on October 23, 2019, 11:08:09 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 23, 2019, 10:21:08 PM
UGH! Frank.

You're being too kind. 

Confidence?

Skill Set?

How about. 

DUMB.

Could those passes possibly have been lazier or more telegraphed? 

He made one or two good stops, a nice drive to the hoop where he didn't get a call on goaltending....

But those two passes?

My BRAIN exploded. 

Dennis was discombobulated. 

Frank was...DIM. 

And I'm a Frank Booster. 

Wow.

Elfrid.  Not by default but by performance on both ends of the court. 

PS: Ellington also with some brain farts, and forcing things, doing things he is NOT ADEPT AT.  Taj not very effective either. 

PPS: Julius & Marcus (25 and 26 points respectively, and each with 3 steals), RJ (21-5-2-2) played really fucking well, Elfrid really settles things down and was a MF on defense (11 points, 8 assists and 5 steals), Knox had several positive moments on offense (3-4 from trey), but an EZ Pass Lane on defense; Portis with some nice moments on defense and some good team ball (7 boards, 2 steals, and 5 assists), but 0-3 from trey; and the Knicks brought a level of defensive tenacity I haven't seen in a long time, forcing a lot of turnovers, and making a lot of steals (16).  But their offensive continuity just cratered in the second half of the final quarter. 

PPPS: Kudos to Pops for his outreach to MM at game's end.  As if to say, what's done it done, and MM seemed humbled by the gesture.  A class act. 

PPPPS: I think Dennis will be okay, but he needs to come off of the bench for now, and has to stop putting pressure on himself (as per, is that all we got for KP) and trying to force things with a jumper that is still not a thing of beauty.  Get to the rack.  GET TO THE RACK.  GET TO THE FUCKING RACK. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on October 23, 2019, 11:19:04 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 23, 2019, 10:02:59 PM
Kemba got TEN points

Kyrie gonna go for FIFTY

Love it.

And they both lost.

Day 1 of a long-season
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 24, 2019, 12:00:36 AM
I think we know who our point guard is now.

Neither Taj nor Dennis seemed fully mobile. It hurt Taj less, but I don’t expect either to be too effective for a while.

Randle, Morris, Barrett, and Payton showed what you want from them all as starters.

Bobby and Knox played imperfectly in supporting roles. Knox needs to focus on his D which is still sad, but he was efficient and productive on the other end. Serious growth there.

The rest of the backcourt was the hottest of messes. We need someone to get their head on right to lead the second unit.

Frank’s passes pissed me off as well. Dennis I think is still back/game shape related. It showed up most on D tonight. I think putting Trier back in his accustomed spark plug role will help him figure it out. Payton and Zo can switch spots.

Getting Mitch back will get us another dimension to the team.

We showed potential in a mostly competitive game despite the loss.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 24, 2019, 01:33:23 AM
It shouldn't be too much to ask to start an actual PG.

Looks like Knix fouled a helluva lot.
Title: Re: Perry & Mills
Post by: Pharoah on October 24, 2019, 02:06:50 AM
Quote from: chipstern on October 23, 2019, 05:26:59 PM
No Dawg, Don Carlos I cannot make out the light at the end of the tunnel.

However....

For the first time in maybe 20 years, I can actually make out a tunnel. 

RJ
Alonzo
Mitchell
Kevin

Dot
Dennis
Frank
Iggy

(https://66.media.tumblr.com/35c473cececace68d7f48f3bf2e0e49d/98d1e2d00c5e460c-34/s640x960/559e079a8b496e532e40c76ea549904d8281aab2.gif)

Right on Chip!

And the Basketball Gods said:

"It's your turn, New York."

What we are witnessing is exceedingly rare, a 19 year star from the opening tip.

RJ has all the markings of a legend in the making.

His finishing skills are already among the best in the league right now, period. I've never seen a guy this young more or less dictate the action in the paint and get off contested shots almost every single time AND make them.

The reason I find this so compelling is because he's doing it without being the most explosive player on the court. Everything he does is done with clear intent. It almost reminds me of Bird.

RJ is clearly his own man, not a clone, so I can't really comp him perfectly, but I can see elements of Wade, Lebron and Bird in this guy. He's a freaking stud.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 24, 2019, 02:56:26 AM
Barrett has a strange style.  But poised and takes his time. 
Looked good.  Except for the two travels.
Maybe give Fizz credit for playing RJB at PG and getting smaller G's defending him.  He overpowered White often.

I've mentioned before that Randle is a beast on the break.
Just another reason you need a PG out there.
Randle was fouling too much.

Team looked much better with Elf out there.
He got steals, but also fouled a lot.
But team defense was much better when Elf was out there.

Morris taeks some tough shots, and usually has his legs splayed as he shoots.  Looks like ugly balance, but seems to work for him.  Might be a beter shooter with better balance,
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 24, 2019, 03:04:40 AM
4Q:
- Knox played some poor D.
- Ellington forced O
- Offense stagnated after Elf sat with his 5th foul

I think teams will put a SF on Barrett.
And try to make him take J's.
He's also not going to pass on drives, so they'll start sending a help Big to meet him at the rim.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 24, 2019, 08:04:36 AM
Did my eyes deceive me or did San Antonio run off 14 points with late no Knicks timeout?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 24, 2019, 08:40:04 AM
Winslow goes for 27-7-7

Markaanen  35-17

Post your stat superlatives if you wish
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 24, 2019, 08:55:42 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 24, 2019, 08:04:36 AM
Did my eyes deceive me or did San Antonio run off 14 points with late no Knicks timeout?

I called the timeout. Yelled it pretty loud actually.

Apparently the coach did not hear me.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 24, 2019, 09:02:13 AM
Al Horford 1
Celtics  0
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 24, 2019, 09:03:16 AM
Celts would have been great with Horford and BALL.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 24, 2019, 09:09:36 AM
Not surprisingly, the best guys on the team — Randle, Morris, and Barrett — played that way. Fun to watch. And they bring an intensity that has been missing on the Knicks. Payton's reputation was on the defensive end, and he was extremely strong in parts. When they run, when they move the ball, they actually look good.

But aside from a lack of good consistent outside shooters, who is going to run the team?

Who is the PG?

With another coach, perhaps the issue is less important. But with the one we have, we need someone smart and confident on the floor who holds things together.

We don't seem to have that.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 24, 2019, 10:07:50 AM
We lost the END GAME - and that’s coaching

Starting without a PG was a curious move

I will just leave it at those two points
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 24, 2019, 10:30:27 AM
woeful night for Fiz .... 0-1 on that slate he's got ..."curious" is a kind word

not a terrible night for fans, though, not sure I've seen a less rookie-ish-looking Knick rookie since Mark Jackson.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 24, 2019, 12:30:07 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 24, 2019, 12:00:36 AM

Randle, Morris, Barrett, and Payton showed what you want from them all as starters.

We showed potential in a mostly competitive game despite the loss.

The first 10 minutes of the 3rd period were a thing of beauty. 
Then Elfrid was subbed out for Frank  - who killed us to end the 3rd and to start the 4th.
He and Ellington killed our momentum as was Fizzdales decision to take out Elfrid when he picked up his fifth foul with 9 minutes to play.

A couple days ago i had talked about Barrett and Trier toghether as a bench unit and thought it was too crazy.  Now Fizzdale actually STARTS them.  You can't do that.  Trier is a gunner who also needs the ball to handle to do his gunning.  You can't start him.  That was mercifully a decision that only lasted the first half.

DSJ and #67 Taj Gibson gave us nothing in the first half and i'm glad they didn't play much.  GIbson even attempted a three.

We win this game if Frank, Trier, DSJ and Taj never get off the bench.

But we lost.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 24, 2019, 12:36:33 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 24, 2019, 10:07:50 AM
We lost the END GAME - and that’s coaching

Starting without a PG was a curious move

I will just leave it at those two points

Yeah it was a bad showing by Fizdale. 
-Starting Trier instead of a PG. 
-Removing a hot Payton.

We could've withstood the poor play if the bad coaching didn't do us in.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 24, 2019, 12:52:08 PM
Who is the PG?



Isnt it obvious?


Careful with management (Mills and his bud) creeping into lineup creation, as in "you need to get Frank some time".

Management gave him the 4th year, not Fizdale.  If there is info that Fiz had a hand in the decision, I'd love to see it.

We are SADDLED with that 6 mil.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 24, 2019, 12:56:37 PM
I cant kill Fiz entirely since on the road down ten after a quarter he still had his charges fired up and in the lead late.

I think he motivates well.

Comes back to the thought that there may just be 6-8-10 TOTAL PACKAGE NBA coaches - while the rest do some things well and also make/keep friends well enough to nail the top perch.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 24, 2019, 02:15:36 PM
When you have Payton with 5 fouls, needing him to play pressure defense, with a bunch of time left, you better have someone behind him who can keep the wheels on for some of that clock. We did not step up in that situation. There was no medium mode between cooking and bogging down.

I think having the starting backcourt roles figured out will stabilize the roster and help the other roles solidify more quickly

Mitch Portis
Randle Gibson
Morris Knox
Barrett
Payton

Ellington, Dot, and Trier fight for minutes behind Barrett.

DSJ, Frank, and Trier fight for time behind Payton.

The job is going to be keeping those eight healthy and rolling.

It’s good we have Crazy Ivan and Kadeem the Dream under wraps in the wings.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 24, 2019, 02:24:16 PM
Payton out, BARRETT in was the mistake.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 24, 2019, 02:26:59 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 24, 2019, 02:15:36 PM
When you have Payton with 5 fouls, needing him to play pressure defense, with a bunch of time left, you better have someone behind him who can keep the wheels on for some of that clock. We did not step up in that situation. There was no medium mode between cooking and bogging down.

I think having the starting backcourt roles figured out will stabilize the roster and help the other roles solidify more quickly

Mitch Portis
Randle Gibson
Morris Knox
Barrett
Payton

Ellington, Dot, and Trier fight for minutes behind Barrett.

DSJ, Frank, and Trier fight for time behind Payton.

The job is going to be keeping those eight healthy and rolling.

It’s good we have Crazy Ivan and Kadeem the Dream under wraps in the wings.

A voice of reason. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 24, 2019, 02:33:02 PM
Yeah, the boy's got it.

But does Fiz?
Title: Fizz
Post by: chipstern on October 24, 2019, 02:43:55 PM
So Fizz Gets ALL THE CREDIT.

That would mean both negative AND positive? 

So the consensus is he blew it on rotations and calling time outs. 

How about the team defense? 

Hmmmm?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 24, 2019, 02:50:29 PM
Should Payton start?

As I sad - does Fiz have it?  Does he see it this way?

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 24, 2019, 03:17:35 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 24, 2019, 02:24:16 PM
Payton out, BARRETT in was the mistake.

Yep.  We had the 97-91 lead and momentum with 8:16 to play when Payton got his 5th foul.

So why take him out of the game?  What are we saving him for? 

He was inserted back in at 6:24 remaining and the lead now a two point deficit 97-99.

He played the last 6:24 and didn't pick up a foul.

I just don't like the kneejerk coaching philosophy that says sub a guy out when he picks up his 5th.

I want Fiz at that point to read the game... nobody was doing what Payton was doing.  Frank and Dennis were off.  So why go with RJ and Wellington in the backcourt --  you just saw what not starting a PG did when you had RJ and Trier out there to start the game when we started off shooting 1-11.

We needed to stick with the hot hand and IF IF IF he fouls out we should have a big enough lead by then that it won't matter.  That's what i would've wanted Fiz to understand.   You don't take out the main thing that gave you the lead JUST BECAUSE HE PICKED UP HIS 5th.   

I hated that lack of guts.   Just because its the thing you usually do doesn't mean you do it in every instance and this was the game where there were no good options besides EP at the point.


Title: 8 deep
Post by: Kam on October 24, 2019, 05:17:38 PM
Top 8

Starters
*Robinson
*Randle
*Morris
*RJ
*Payton
--Possible 6th men--
+Portis
+Trier
+Knox

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on October 25, 2019, 09:19:41 AM
I think we got to go at least 9 deep,  Dennis has to get his legs don't let him become an casualty of NY after one bad game.  The kid was beasting with the Mavs.  Agreed he has looked like trash since he got to NY but I think Fiz is confused and he is acting like Phil Jackass.  He is playing to a system instead of to the players strengths.  Trier is NOT a PG he is a 6th man scoring machine, let him thrive in his role.  D Smith is not a passing PG he is a scoring PG like Kyrie, let him play his game that he is good at.  Peyton def earned the starting Nod. Mitchell wild defense was definitely missing from that game.

Peyton
RJ
Morris
Randle
MItchell

DSmith
Trier
Knox
Portis
Title: Re: 8 deep
Post by: bodiddley on October 25, 2019, 09:51:45 AM
Quote from: Kam on October 24, 2019, 05:17:38 PM
Top 8

Starters
*Robinson
*Randle
*Morris
*RJ
*Payton

That was my starting lineup suggestion, though I said either Jr. Smith or Payton depending on who is playing better or better fit.

I'd like to start Smith for development purposes, but if Elf outplays him or works better with that 1st unit, than Elf it is.

And with Smith coming back from back trouble and not in sync, it should be Elf, at least for now.  And maybe with 2 yute already starting a vet PG is better anyway.

A long way of saying that I agree ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 25, 2019, 12:15:51 PM
AYTON down 25 games

"I did not knowingly........"

Yeah.  I did not knowingly smoke that weed in college either.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 25, 2019, 12:37:54 PM
This was a banned weight loss drug/ingredient, not performance enhancing (?)  Or at least that's what I gleaned.  The info was kind of sketchy.

Edit: "Diuretics are banned because they can mask performance-enhancing drug use."

Though sports news gets these things wrong frequently, but that's what ESPn says.  Wish they sourced that, but I'll go with it for now.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 25, 2019, 03:45:36 PM
doesnt matter

have to be living under a rock to be a young pro athlete and not be more careful

Suns may have a top pick, finally
Title: Battle for NY
Post by: Kam on October 25, 2019, 04:16:06 PM
Tonight's game is big.  Brooklyn is poised to make a statement as NY's Team.  Not just for the present, but for a whole new generation of fans who were born in the 2010s.  Brooklyn has - for the first time since the early 2000s Kidd-nets - true STAR POWER.   The Devin Harris / Deron Williams Doldrums are over.  The stench of the Paul Pierce and KG trades are over.  New team, new claim to the throne.

A lot of young impressionable schoolkids are gonna be turning in their Knicks caps for Nets caps if the Brooklyn team prevails. 

By the way, what a big mistake it was keeping the Nets name.   So lame.   Should've changed it when they came to BK.  Nobody likes that name.  That's like calling your team the Boston Balls or Houston Hoops. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 25, 2019, 04:29:15 PM
BKY was 29th in home attendance last year.
With a reasonably fun exciting young team.

Kyrie gives them some star power.
But he's also frustrating in many ways.

BKY has been beating the Knix for years now.
Nets don't get serious hype until sometime next year when Durant finally returns to 80% Durant.
Title: Re: Battle for NY
Post by: bodiddley on October 25, 2019, 04:32:54 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 25, 2019, 04:16:06 PM
By the way, what a big mistake it was keeping the Nets name.   So lame.   Should've changed it when they came to BK.  Nobody likes that name. 

Don't blame me, I voted for the Brooklyn Lubavitches
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 25, 2019, 04:34:42 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 25, 2019, 04:29:15 PM

Everyone BKY has been beating the Knix for years now.


Fixed your quote.

The Knicks never had to worry how terrible they were because there was no other option.  The Nets may have been beating the Knicks but they weren't changing hearts and minds away from the Titanicks

What's different this year? 
Well.... the Nets are now supposedly "cool", no? 

A Knicks win would go a long way to repudiate that notion! 
I hope we win by thirty.
Title: Re: Battle for NY
Post by: Kam on October 25, 2019, 04:36:42 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 25, 2019, 04:32:54 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 25, 2019, 04:16:06 PM
By the way, what a big mistake it was keeping the Nets name.   So lame.   Should've changed it when they came to BK.  Nobody likes that name. 

Don't blame me, I voted for the Brooklyn Lubavitches

The Brooklyn Orthodox vs. the New York Knickerbockers as a nice ring to it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 25, 2019, 04:54:04 PM
The Nets are now cool because Kevin Durant, a guy who will not outscore me or you this year, said so?

You know who has never been cool?
KD, who has always been somewhat whiny and pampered.
They had to protect him from the media ... in OKC!
He never felt a part of GS.
Poor him.

Kyrie & KD -- I can't think of a pair of stars less likely to win big.
I'm glad we didn't get them ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 25, 2019, 04:58:40 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 25, 2019, 04:54:04 PM
The Nets are now cool because Kevin Durant, a guy who will not outscore me or you this year, said so.

You know who has never been cool?
KD, who has always been somewhat whiny and pampered.
They had to protect him from the media ... in OKC!
He never felt a part of GS.
Poor him.

Kyrie & KD -- I can't think of a pair of stars less likely to win big.

I agree with everything you wrote.

Personally I think someone with the NETS might've told KD to say that.

Young kids may not know KD's history, they just know the name KD and will listen.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 25, 2019, 07:30:18 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 25, 2019, 04:54:04 PM
The Nets are now cool because Kevin Durant, a guy who will not outscore me or you this year, said so?

You know who has never been cool?
KD, who has always been somewhat whiny and pampered.
They had to protect him from the media ... in OKC!
He never felt a part of GS.
Poor him.

Kyrie & KD -- I can't think of a pair of stars less likely to win big.
I'm glad we didn't get them ...

Amen to this!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 25, 2019, 07:52:16 PM
Knix defense looks feeble, especially in transition.
And fouling a lot.

Offense rather choppy too.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 25, 2019, 08:09:39 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 25, 2019, 07:52:16 PM
Knix defense looks feeble, especially in transition.
And fouling a lot.

Offense rather choppy too.

Knox answers the call off the bench for offense.
Streak shooter.  Two threes, and back in the game.
Title: Taraji P Gibson
Post by: Kam on October 25, 2019, 08:11:50 PM
Taj seems lost/drunk.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 25, 2019, 08:15:16 PM
Both benches had much more fluid offense than the starting units.

I like after Knox popped in his first 3, he wanted another and didn't hesitate.
And then the Nets were preoccupied trying to stay on him.

Portis was a mess.
Jr. Smith kind of iffy. Especially that no-confidence J.
Title: Taj negates Knox
Post by: Kam on October 25, 2019, 08:18:00 PM
Knox comes it buries 2 out of 3 including 2 threes, the second of which cut the deficit to 1.

But he is a -10 because everyone else on the floor is playing like garbage.
Title: PG play
Post by: Kam on October 25, 2019, 08:22:41 PM
Do we have a PG?  Our PGs combined has half as many assists as Robinson and Knox combined.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 25, 2019, 08:28:39 PM
Randle and Morris both with effort but poor results.
3 fouls for Morris.  3 turns for Randle.
Combined 2-9 FG
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 25, 2019, 08:29:55 PM
Nets radio guys praise the "firepower of the Knicks second unit".  Whoa.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 25, 2019, 08:32:55 PM
hate these half-screen ads during a 2nd FTA.

They did that on YES during the Nets game the other night.
Now I see MSG is on board with the extra ads during play as well.

BOO
Title: TRIER
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 25, 2019, 08:35:11 PM
playing ahead of Ellington and is a -15
Title: Trier on Defense
Post by: Kam on October 25, 2019, 08:37:10 PM
Trier is just leaving guys open on D.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: AdeTheOba on October 25, 2019, 08:41:40 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 23, 2019, 04:19:51 AM
I didn't realize the season started.
Lakers really have an iffy bench.  Looks like the Clips 2nd unit steamrolled them.
Edit: The Clippers' reserves outscored the Lakers' bench, 60-19.

Apparently, CCTv didn't show the games.
Must be first time in over 20 years opening day games weren't televised in China.

Put me down for 29 Knick W's.

I am in for 24 wins.
Title: Nets are punks
Post by: Kam on October 25, 2019, 08:44:39 PM
Portis did his job.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 25, 2019, 08:46:39 PM
But he can score.
Trier played no D last year.

Knix with 5 assists with 3 mins left in the half.
Twice as many turnovers.

I don't think anybody is going to want to fight these Knix.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 25, 2019, 08:51:11 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 25, 2019, 08:46:39 PM

I don't think anybody is going to want to fight these Knix.

Portis has those "Kurt Thomas" crazy eyes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 25, 2019, 08:53:07 PM
And Morris is a hothead.
While Randle is a tank.
Title: Back alley Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 25, 2019, 08:55:13 PM
Yeah a good goon squad. But we are getting our ass kicked on the court.  There doesn't seem to be anything resembling an offense. No Pick and Rolls.  A couple screens here and there.  Everything 1-on1.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 25, 2019, 08:55:49 PM
Assist-turnovers

13-11 for Nets - not great either

NY containing Kyrie
Title: Fugly
Post by: bodiddley on October 25, 2019, 08:56:36 PM
6 Assists & 12 Turnovers at the Half.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 25, 2019, 09:01:01 PM
Much better showing last game from the big men. But it's just a half.

Now to do my broken record thing.....

We don't seem to have a point guard.

(and a sniper or two would be nice, but we knew this last summer)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 25, 2019, 09:01:17 PM
Huge game alert - Karl Anthony Towns
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 25, 2019, 09:02:35 PM
Quote from: elephant on October 25, 2019, 09:01:01 PM
Much better showing last game from the big men. But it's just a half.

Now to do my broken record thing.....

We don't seem to have a point guard.

(and a sniper or two would be nice, but we knew this last summer)

The ids here ran Mudiay off
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 25, 2019, 09:04:02 PM
Quote from: elephant on October 25, 2019, 09:01:01 PM


(and a sniper or two would be nice, but we knew this last summer)

It's way too early to know but Kevin Knox could be that sniper. 
Now 5 for 6 from deep on the season.
Title: Came out for the 2nd half
Post by: Kam on October 25, 2019, 09:11:56 PM
 not ready to play
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 25, 2019, 09:12:56 PM
Knicks are playing offense with 4 players
Title: Fun Fact
Post by: Kam on October 25, 2019, 09:35:56 PM
Knicks won the 3rd vs the Spurs and they won the 3rd from the Nets.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 25, 2019, 09:41:08 PM
Forget the record.  "OUR BOYS DON'T QUIT" sells plenty of tickets

And who needs playoff games?   Such a bother.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 25, 2019, 09:42:23 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 25, 2019, 09:04:02 PM
Quote from: elephant on October 25, 2019, 09:01:01 PM


(and a sniper or two would be nice, but we knew this last summer)

It's way too early to know but Kevin Knox could be that sniper. 
Now 5 for 6 from deep on the season.

That's true.

In preseason, I thought there were signs that he had upped his offensive game. Would be great to see.
Title: Get it while its hot Kevin
Post by: Kam on October 25, 2019, 09:46:57 PM
Knox with another three followed by a three, perfect 4 for 4 on the night.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 25, 2019, 09:58:55 PM
Post up.

Old school, baby.
Title: Duke Ellington
Post by: Kam on October 25, 2019, 10:02:07 PM
The DUKE!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 25, 2019, 10:02:55 PM
Unreal.

But usually a game we lose

Lets find out
Title: No PG out there
Post by: Kam on October 25, 2019, 10:04:52 PM
Just RJ
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 25, 2019, 10:05:04 PM
Get Payton in!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 25, 2019, 10:06:42 PM
Bullock bought Elfrid's hair.

Fun night.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 25, 2019, 10:09:29 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 25, 2019, 10:05:04 PM
Get Payton in!

DOH!
Title: RJ's moment
Post by: Kam on October 25, 2019, 10:10:15 PM
Let's see the kid take the final shot.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 25, 2019, 10:11:40 PM
Fiz just has no feel
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 25, 2019, 10:12:28 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 25, 2019, 10:11:40 PM
Fiz just has no feel

Yeah. Not a game coach.  Just a caretaker coach.
Title: Would've been nice
Post by: Kam on October 25, 2019, 10:13:43 PM
To have Payton to guard Kyrie in the final minute.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 25, 2019, 10:16:00 PM
No point in game

No clue
Title: Fizdale
Post by: Kam on October 25, 2019, 10:19:08 PM
Nice guy.  Maybe good at building up young guys.  I love Kevin Knox newfound interest in passing when he spent all last year chucking.  So give the coaching staff credit.  But this is not the coach to get us to the playoffs.  That's the next guy's job after Fiz develops the pups some more.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 25, 2019, 10:22:06 PM
Really, so pathetic.

It's the same shit we saw last year again and again.

It's not about losing, not about missing shots — though that happens — but the fact that we're always out coached in the final minutes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 25, 2019, 10:33:38 PM
Quote from: elephant on October 19, 2019, 08:41:21 PM
But yeah, we have a point guard problem. I had no high hopes for Smith Jr., based on his play for us last year, but who the fuck knows. I'm just looking for someone who can LEAD out there. Randal is great, but without a strong PG, you can see the dark potential for....well, those last 30 seconds.

Speaking of that, I know it's pre-season, but Kid seemed on the mark writing about the Knicks disfunction at the end of games. THAT I put on coaches, not players. Fizdale is making millions, so I don't think it's much to ask for well-designed plays and smart time management. But game after game last that, I didn't see that.

Wrote this last week after the preseason game with New Orleans. With the game on the line....and with no apparent play drawn up by the coach....Randall just sort of improvised.

It wasn't pretty then. And it wasn't pretty tonight.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 25, 2019, 10:41:35 PM
Quote from: elephant on October 25, 2019, 10:33:38 PM
Quote from: elephant on October 19, 2019, 08:41:21 PM
But yeah, we have a point guard problem. I had no high hopes for Smith Jr., based on his play for us last year, but who the fuck knows. I'm just looking for someone who can LEAD out there. Randal is great, but without a strong PG, you can see the dark potential for....well, those last 30 seconds.

Speaking of that, I know it's pre-season, but Kid seemed on the mark writing about the Knicks disfunction at the end of games. THAT I put on coaches, not players. Fizdale is making millions, so I don't think it's much to ask for well-designed plays and smart time management. But game after game last that, I didn't see that.

Wrote this last week after the preseason game with New Orleans. With the game on the line....and with no apparent play drawn up by the coach....Randall just sort of improvised.

It wasn't pretty then. And it wasn't pretty tonight.

Yeah. Fiz is like a robot from the 1960s. Slow and limited to only a few lines of code.

His only endgame code is: 
Code: [Select]
Give ball to main player
Very unimaginative.

Robinson picked up his fifth foul and never even got back in the game to thwart Kyrie's drives.

Again his dumb 5 fouls code
Code: [Select]
No player may use all six fouls
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 26, 2019, 01:11:41 AM
Dennis needs to stay on the shelf for a while. Morris & Randle need bounce back games.

Though the score was closer, that was much harder to watch than game 1.
Title: Knicks wins
Post by: carlos123 on October 26, 2019, 01:39:28 AM
A while ago I said 20.

May I change my prediction to 19?

Sorry Chip 🤯
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 26, 2019, 01:56:43 AM
Why you guys so hard on Fiz? It's his "development year"....you expecting Budenholzer🤣


* I firmly remain Carlos'# + 1, whatever his # is.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 26, 2019, 03:55:48 AM
It's a development year for the team and the yute.
Fizz and the Knix would look better with a legit PG and more cohesion (lots of new Knicks).

Was a game of runs.
Knix shot 68% on 3's!
The bench was 10-12 on 3's!!
Looks like Ellington was used well to aid the comeback.
RJB had a blah 1st half, but looks like he came on strong later.

I missed the 2nd half.

Lotta fouls, lotta ugly possessions.
Knix nearly pulled out a W in a game where Randle and Morris were off.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 26, 2019, 08:18:33 AM
If you missed the second half you shouldn't even think of commenting on your "development year" for coach call or what would make the team look better.

Fiz's endgame continues to be unworthy of the Brooklyn PAL.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 26, 2019, 01:08:11 PM
We can’t go into slow down mode the minute we take a late lead. It hasn’t been how we’ve gotten those leads and we’re not nearly cohesive enough to score in slow mo against defenses playing with a sense of desperation.

Mitch Portis
Randle Gibson
Morris Knox
RJ Ellington
Payton Trier

Have all earned an element of trust. That’s enough bodies to build a rotation if they stay healthy.

Frank, DSJ, Dotson, and Iggy need to get ready to step in, just in case, but the staff can focus on getting the most out of the guys who have at least produced something so far.

In the two losses so far we’ve played much dumber than our opponents who have highly regarded coaches, continuity, and an all star or two yet we grabbed late leads and contested till the final minutes. All the coaching, continuity and talent can be said about the Celtics as much as the Spurs or the Nets.

Unfortunately I don’t think there’s an overnight cure for dumb play.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 26, 2019, 01:50:46 PM
Consecutive possessions Kyrie was laughing so hard, like, "you got who on me?"
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 26, 2019, 02:08:17 PM
Barrett got his first look at Kyrie. Will he improve?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 26, 2019, 03:45:44 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 26, 2019, 01:08:11 PM

Unfortunately I don’t think there’s an overnight cure for dumb play.

True. Nor is there a quick cure for dumb coaching.

But here's a start. At the end of close games, get the ball in the hands of someone who can dribble, pass and direct the action. Build some fucking trust with whatever point guard you fancy. Let them lead.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 26, 2019, 07:10:07 PM
Pidto and Scerbiak on pregame praising Barrett at point guard

Have they no analytic skill?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 26, 2019, 10:05:30 PM
Quote from: elephant on October 26, 2019, 03:45:44 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 26, 2019, 01:08:11 PM

Unfortunately I don’t think there’s an overnight cure for dumb play.

True. Nor is there a quick cure for dumb coaching.

But here's a start. At the end of close games, get the ball in the hands of someone who can dribble, pass and direct the action. Build some fucking trust with whatever point guard you fancy. Let them lead.

D Smith getting a stint in the second half makes me feel this is absolutely true.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 26, 2019, 10:08:10 PM
Give it up.  Knicks are trading him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 26, 2019, 11:45:54 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 26, 2019, 02:08:17 PM
Barrett got his first look at Kyrie. Will he improve?

Absolutely. Looks like he might end up a decent situational defender, continues to impress. Knox, who was on Kyrie the play before, not so much.

FizWhiz is really something. Kemba enjoyed the heck out of him tonight.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on October 26, 2019, 11:51:53 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 26, 2019, 10:08:10 PM
Give it up.  Knicks are trading him.

DSJ is untradeable.  nice wishful thinking though.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 27, 2019, 12:04:11 AM
Quote from: FWK00 on October 26, 2019, 11:51:53 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 26, 2019, 10:08:10 PM
Give it up.  Knicks are trading him.


DSJ is untradeable.  nice wishful thinking though.

Well if we do, better get something for him, lol. Mavs trade is already starting to look like one of those NBA legends in the making.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 27, 2019, 12:07:23 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on October 26, 2019, 01:56:43 AM

* I firmly remain Carlos'# + 1, whatever his # is.

* I firmly remain Carlos'# + 11, whatever his # is, if Fiz gets sent back to the used-car lot.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 27, 2019, 12:14:23 AM
Did the NYPD issue with KP get resolved? Also getting out from under Lee and Hardaway was priceless.

Smith could use a rehab stint in Westchester.

I’m encouraged by the return of Dot.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 27, 2019, 12:30:36 AM
lol 10,000x ...priceless 4 what? Taj Gibson?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 27, 2019, 12:47:21 AM
Taj will be fine, especially if we get the guards figured out in the second unit. There are reasons to feel less than sanguine that that will happen.

At least there is a day to regroup before Chicago.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 27, 2019, 02:55:40 AM
25 Turns; 15 Assists

Trier and Barrett ain't PG's.

Give Smith a week off and time to get right and his rhythm back.
Play Frank as backup PG.

Portis and Jr. Smith have been bad.

Has Barrett been our best most consistent player so far?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 27, 2019, 04:34:34 AM
Probably yeah for Barrett.

Portis plays some horrible off ball D. That seems clear already.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 27, 2019, 11:00:38 AM
Feel bad for Smith.

I didn't think he's the answer for us, based on his play last year.

But fuck, it's the 3rd game. The guy is trying to emerge from an injury.

Those fans booing are dicks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 27, 2019, 12:26:40 PM
Has Portis been that bad?

Loving Mitch. Needs a C partner
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 27, 2019, 12:28:17 PM
Matter of fact the more I think about it we were so damn fortunate to land Robinson. Thanks to his agent. And to the teams that passed
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 27, 2019, 01:29:04 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 27, 2019, 12:26:40 PM
Has Portis been that bad?

Well, the last two games he's been awful.
Foulathon and not making his shots.

Small sample and all, but he looks like a bad defender.
Out of position, slow to react, fouling.

Actually Mitch, Portis, Morris, Randle all seem foul prone.
And so is Elf, Barrett, Knox.

Fouls and turnovers are a glaring weakness right now.
Along with PG play.
Title: Table setting
Post by: Kam on October 27, 2019, 02:26:07 PM
We clearly have two extremely young building blocks (Mitchell and RJ) that any NBA team would love to have.  A ball dominant wing who can do it all and a high efficiency defensive big who doesn't need the ball.  We need a plan to surround them with the right pieces. 

Everyone else on this squad who has talent ... Your Randles, Morris, Knox and Trier,  need to be evaluated for how they fit RJ and Mitch.  Every thing is on the table.  The only untouchables are our two whiz kidz.
 
ALSO: We need a PG to emerge from this miasma.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 27, 2019, 04:45:43 PM
I agree.

Also, have long thought that Randle, our biggest commitment, is a hard player to fit around.

At least this year we do have tradeable assets.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 27, 2019, 05:43:33 PM
Payton is the PG
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 27, 2019, 07:30:18 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 27, 2019, 05:43:33 PM
Payton is the PG

Reminds me of Charlie Ward.   Is that enough?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 27, 2019, 08:21:52 PM
Meanwhile Kyrie v. Morant down to the end very fun to watch...


*** 33 for K.I....Morant 17 in the 4th...`120-120...7 secs to go


**** Morant blocks Kyrie at the buzzer to send to overtime!!


***** Really was a top-3 draft, none of the three look anything like rookies, not to say others won't come on and catch up, but all three just so poised and ready.


***** Great coaching, great play out of timeout with 30 secs left to get the Nets the lead and a two-for-one situation with game on line in OT. Yeah, that's what coaches do!

*** Kyrie with the super D to break up the play with 13 left!!!

***** 8 Secs left, one last chance for Grizz and Ja!!!!!


******** Morant throws it out of bounds on the inbounds...he is a rookie after all!!!


**** OHHHHHHHHHH MY, long Crowder three at the buzzer to win it for Memphis.......wow.

* heckuva game, not rooting for either side, but that was a nice end to the weekend.

*** Yes I would NOT like to see Iso & Dennis first off the bench next time.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 27, 2019, 08:21:58 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 27, 2019, 07:30:18 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 27, 2019, 05:43:33 PM
Payton is the PG

Reminds me of Charlie Ward.   Is that enough?

Charlie helped bring us to the Finals. 

No, that ain't Kemba. 

Just saying. 
Title: PG
Post by: chipstern on October 27, 2019, 08:37:25 PM
More than the PG at issue. 

Strange spacing, with everyone parked out on the perimeter. 

Ball tending to stick. 

Not enough motion. 

When (and if) the ball comes in down low, Julius and Marcus tend to force the issue, one on one in the Carmelo mode, inviting the double and triple teams, leading to blocks, turnovers...

Julius and Marcus are skilled players, and were mostly effective in games 1 & 2, but took too much onto themselves in the second half last night, and the offense got constipated, and we lost all rhythm. 

RJ as nightly positive, and emerging as the team leader...easy to see why RJ is to Fizz what Yogi was to Stengle. 

"I never do anything without my man,' sayeth Casey.

RJ is fearless, plays like a man and MAKES PLAYS.  However, even he was forcing things in the second half, and while his drives and treys and D are inspiring, he has to own his turnovers and missed FTs. 

Feel terrible for Dennis.  His jumper notwithstanding, last season he gave us some really effective point, going to the glass.  Now he is completely out of rhythm, pressing, second guessing, and NOT to offer him a hall pass, but the fans at the Garden should be ashamed of themselves for turning on him...

The Jim Fregosi for Nolan Ryan Curse. 

The Dennis Smith for Kristaps Porzingis Curse. 

Not FUCKING Fair. 

Having said THAT, he should sit for a spell, and get through this Fultz Stage, get back his confidence and rhythm, stop forcing jumpers and get back to what he does well.  Ben Simmons couldn't shoot jumpers, but he found a way to be effective, hell, brilliant. 

Smith isn't the only one hoisting too many long jumpers.  I know what the modern analytics say, but nothing quite like a made two. 

Having said THAT, rather than bringing in Dennis and Alonzo first off the bench on Monday?

How about Ntilikina and Dotson.  Both big guards.  Both defensive stalwarts.  And Dotson is a dead eye from trey...Trier's game is penetration.  So is Dennis'.   

Onwards.   

PS: Elfrid is our point. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 27, 2019, 09:37:53 PM
PG minutes need to be 28-20 before we know what DSJ can do

Eliminate the Barrett minutes.  Play him at the 3 if you want more minutes open for the shooters
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 27, 2019, 09:55:10 PM
Lol, you think DSJ gonna get Mudiay Minutes? Kinda hard to give those when he's doing this:

The Knicks are scoring just 74 points per 100 possessions with Smith on the court. They are allowing 119 points per 100 possessions with Smith.

*** Just read the above again. It hurts my eyes. Must really hurt in person. Don't endorse booing the young man, but I do understand. Lotta pain accumulated up in those garden seats. Best toughen up son. Fiz ain't gonna handle you right for sure, whatever right is.

He's had a pretty fair amount of seen, seen?
He got 3600 minutes his first two seasons.
He averaged nearly 30 mins per game his first two seasons.
He has basically had an entire additional season of NBA basketball compared to Frank.
Carte blanche he got. Though he threw a good hissy when Carlysle took it away.

No, in the scheme of things, little jr. aint the one who need minutes so as to be seen.

It's that other guy....

** plus, that other guy looks like he has a clue if given that whole f'ing additional season. Ain't gonna get it here though. Move him already so he can get on with it. Get him the fuck away from Fiz. Pistons are a sweet fit actually. Go ahead. Set him free.


**** Porzingis just went for 32. 32....9....5....2. (the five is what stands out to me,,,yeah, Zinger has a coach now. Third game after the ACL. Third.) This thing gonna smell so bad in the end lest one of those picks get crazy lucky, and I mean craaaaaaaaaaAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaazy. Let me make that a little more clear:


CRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAZZZZZZZZYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY. LUCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKY.


****** But, but but we needed cap space for Reggie Bullock...I mean Wayne Ellington... I mean Bobby f'n Portis....and his mom was caught smoking a cigar inside a 737 bathroom and spouting Latvian curses at Steve Mills and his brother was in a threesome with Katie Hill IN A NIGHTCLUB..and.....and...NO. We of no studs gave up a stud for ABSOLUTELY DOODOO. You don't doo doo that.

Let me reiterate, we best get:

CRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAZZZZZZZZYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY. LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLUUCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKY.

with those picks.



Title: You my doggie
Post by: carlos123 on October 27, 2019, 10:27:14 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on October 27, 2019, 12:07:23 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on October 26, 2019, 01:56:43 AM

* I firmly remain Carlos'# + 1, whatever his # is.

* I firmly remain Carlos'# + 11, whatever his # is, if Fiz gets sent back to the used-car lot.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/golVWEushz4tM_hcMhwOo_vHG22GDqhhy13tiUJrZtSnYqS-dV_d4twkS9FCN5-0q7yEh1sebfDcmaSDORNMe271a1H4faKffQ_mJPUx5iq3H9x65gFw__5AZtbygDHn9JTVjzYEyG22Fz9xBpJG3_ha-M9_axjjgnw9mqK_3UZVfc2ZV3HjspRFKRUQT09I_LRbl_So-xJaTNoWylivbf0BrpC95EwCVlYJdJwJXvH1Rsl-PjAP8X2hiZe_nYIBUIVEiUXJAaQvOtUOn2SWm-WTl8WcYxjdPf-f8lrxkPqtSWByiNqhvBMZWob8gtJ79_Vj8clYB1TkNavegpp3Jvb3nZ5H2tG18pUltJMn6TI45lNkIALxVfSNOFMEtLWwvjWg_fBXB-CFS0Wld39nEBfQPAkFX5RkhbszEnHIg8dNx1gFQ0tfkH3-ouQuecqBNUzJujs6f2hhs4r9C092Z_76zxPzZeqcBUYDTWexud1fW-MjV8xvZ3Ofyr3ki3LSluu38jzyq1DqUR-6OHNBW1MpXvD7-8ZP0Fhe2r0sgTJOVEW3QwcLFn0UK-CSO7IVrL-cSEWB2eI0G2dfj5V4wACUYdPmglJeY_mB4md_NLOPXlmCm0zDcaVBK6ZghOHfphplPzPK-cTvbJWteI0dNLkdv-aA4Pezk6K8svt2dxYu1xN7IFarrw=w1199-h600-no)

C's # is 19
Title: 20 .... La concha de tu madre Pom Pom girlz.
Post by: lesterluv on October 27, 2019, 10:39:47 PM
*** I swear I tried Carlos. I really did try. I tried. I put on that skirt. Walked down the street to the dry cleaner with alterations lady and had it hemmed up to fit just so. And then I saw some of our games. And then I saw some of the other teams' games. And some of the other teams had coaches making good substitutions and calling good plays. And some of the other teams had GM's with meaningful blueprints for success. And then.....

Forecast from TODAY: https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-nba-predictions/ (https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-nba-predictions/)

20. Check.

*** I do believe that's some kind of unfailable computer thing you can't argue with.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 28, 2019, 01:30:30 AM
Gee, giving away KZ for not much is coming back to haunt us. 
Who could've guessed?

If we had KZ, RJB, Mitch, Knox, we'd be in pretty good shape.
Still could have added ELF.
Trier, Dot, Franc.
Then next year use whatever available cap space to add another FA starter.  Hopefully at PG.

KZ wanted out?
Repair the relationship.
Phil and previous coaches gone.
Offer KZ the big max extension, and tell him he's the franchise guy, and if he's unhappy after one year of playing (this season), we'll look into moving him. 

Probably Phil's biggest legacy.  Somehow turning/running off KZ.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 28, 2019, 01:37:20 AM
BTw, a 3 man draft and we got one of 'em.
Fizz succeeded last year.

Which is why I'm willing to give him this blah new roster a full year to work with.  If all Fizz is is a good player development coach, well that fits right in with where we are.  Almost everyone improved last year.  And we managed the tank effectively.

I don't really care this year if we get 25 or 35 W's.  35 would no doubt be more fun, but this year is about developing the pups and figuring out who fits where and who belongs. 

If Fizz can't improve -- say substitutions, endgame situations, plays after timeouts, coherent D, spacing, etc, then he can be a 3 year development coach and we move on when were actually ready to start winning.

And i give Fizz credit for starting Barrett, letting him play some PG (though I think it's misguided given the rest of thee roster), and letting him guard Kyrie on the last play.  Fizz could be more cautious, but he's willing to take some chances and see what the young man has.  I'm in for that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 28, 2019, 08:54:10 AM
https://twitter.com/OrgPhysics/status/1154329845276512256?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1154329845276512256&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftherookiewire.usatoday.com%2F2019%2F08%2F05%2Fcassius-stanley-2020-nba-mock-draft-duke-blue-devils%2F
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 28, 2019, 09:12:07 AM
Gee, giving away KZ for not much is coming back to haunt us.


You don't think we got anything useful out of the deal?

My concern is if there were other deals available - and the press hasn't dug up anything on that front. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 28, 2019, 10:02:25 AM
We got rid of Tim.
And got some cap space which we used on PF's.
But KZ is a PF and young and mighty talented.
We got very little.

The 2 #1's we got will be midrounders.  12-18.

The Clips gave up Shai to get PG.
He's a prize.
Not saying we could've had him, but there are always deals out there.

Basically KZ said he wanted out and we traded him 3 days later or somesuch.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 28, 2019, 11:29:17 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 28, 2019, 01:30:30 AM

KZ wanted out?
Repair the relationship.
Phil and previous coaches gone.
Offer KZ the big max extension, and tell him he's the franchise guy, and if he's unhappy after one year of playing (this season), we'll look into moving him. 


That's what you do.

Retaining or building value seems to be anathema to us, institutionally.
You can be sure, with Fiz's help, that Frank or DJr won't be worth a Little Debby Nutty Buddy by the time we toss them off our sunken ship.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 28, 2019, 12:04:10 PM
Good teams have been built by moving on from "stars".  Was KP even taking the max had we offered?  That's a tough risk to take.  And are we really that much better if he does?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 28, 2019, 12:11:39 PM
Fizz helped get Muddy right and TreyBurke look like a legit NBA backup.  These were two guys in danger of dropping out of the league.

I don't think you can blame Fizz for Smith's back or him looking like creamed crapola to start the season.

As for Franc, maybe Fizz is better at aiding players with some offensive skills.  But also Franc got dinged up a fair amount of last year.  Also, our rosters haven't been kind to Franc, as this year we again have 3 PG's, and two are ahead of of him.

But a lot is on Franc too.
He doesn't have a feel for when to shoot and when to pass.  Many of his passes are weak efforts.  He doesn't put pressure on the D much.  His J is weak.  He hasn't developed anything reliable on O.  For now, I'd like to see him force some drives, take open 3's, surprise some folks with aggression.  And generally be opportunistic on O.  And make crisp passes. 

I expect Fizz will give franc plenty of op to see what he can do.
Hell, could be soon if Jr. Smith needs a sit-down.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 28, 2019, 12:17:01 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 28, 2019, 12:04:10 PM
Good teams have been built by moving on from "stars".

Rarely.

Quote
And are we really that much better if he does?

Much much better.
ELF - Barrett - Knox - KZ - Mitch
Franc - Trier - Dot
Not sure we could have signed anyone else or not.
But probably at least an $8M MLE if we wanted.
Fortify the bench a little and we'd be a 6-8 seed.

And of course we'd have two young studs to build around, plus wildcard Mitch.  With Knox and Franc as still potential solid role player.  We'd be in good shape and in need of a starting PG.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 28, 2019, 12:27:13 PM
We are much, much, much better. Ridiculously much better.

As for Franc & Fiz.

Fiz HATES Euros.

Franc has offensive skills.

He doesn't have rtg ISO skills.

He doesn't have confidence. All the things you talk about come through play.

Fiz with Frank has been designed to destroy confidence. Every step of the way. From not playing him on X-mas to 1 minute and 2 minutes yanks.

Yet, I have seen so much COMPLETE FUCKING CLOWN BALL from his American faves.  One horrible play after another. At both ends of the court. But as long as they are going to head to the rim and put up one shitshot after another it's ok. Endless run.

Get Frank outa here.....No meaningful, play-the-way-you-win basketball will happen here under Fiz so there just is no point.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 28, 2019, 02:07:57 PM
I assume we'll have a mid-season trade with Smith or Franc being tosses into a package with maybe Morris or Portis and/or Taj.
If Jr. Smith goes, then Franc will be the primary backup PG and get minutes.  Or Franc goes as a package sweetener.

So we were competitive in the first 3 games v. playoff teams.
Schedule gets much easier as the next 11 games only has one playoff lock (@ BOS).  And no B2B's.
Next best team in that stretch: DAL x 2.
Also CHI x 2, CLE x 2 (both at MSG);
@Orl, CHA, @Det, SAC.

Lotta winnable games.
Especially CLE & CHA.
But DET has a weak bench.
SAC playing poorly, especially on D.
We should/could be as good or better than CHI.

10 out of the next 11 v. teams likely to finish below .500.
Time to make a move.




Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 28, 2019, 02:22:08 PM
OK, so lets go 7-4
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 28, 2019, 02:29:46 PM
10, 16, 34, 82

Games missed by KP over 4 years

But go ahead and compare him to PG.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on October 28, 2019, 02:59:21 PM
https://www.dallasnews.com/sports/mavericks/2018/05/29/i-want-my-momma-dennis-smith-jr-s-rise-to-mavs-top-pick-came-with-a-caring-single-dad-family/ (https://www.dallasnews.com/sports/mavericks/2018/05/29/i-want-my-momma-dennis-smith-jr-s-rise-to-mavs-top-pick-came-with-a-caring-single-dad-family/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 28, 2019, 03:22:46 PM
I don't see the utility in going backwards again to argue the KP debacle.

But however well his career goes, there's no arguing that the Knicks lost a young player who was widely perceived as an extraordinarily valuable asset.

IMHO, nothing speaks to the organization's disfunction as much as this episode — and we're talking about a legacy of terrible decisions to choose from. It's revealing too that there was, apparently, no accountability for the mishandling of the team's most valued player. No firings, no resignations. That says a bit about the organization too.
Title: All this KP talk when
Post by: Kam on October 28, 2019, 04:44:01 PM
KP's tap was why the Mavs lost last night
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on October 28, 2019, 06:51:23 PM
Not gonna deny at this point the KP trade doesn't look great, but let's see what happens. A lot can even in this season.

We whiffed on free agents, yes, and I know the idea or repairing the relationship is being thrown out there, but maybe it wasn't reparable.

He's also a high injury risk at his size. If he makes it through this season maybe it seems to hold some water, but players his height and over have an awful track record with staying in the league.

Also, the attitude/brother/rape accusation situation is not exactly something that in NYC would be something the media like the Daily News would ignore on top of the Knicks track record.

Maybe it's time to move on?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on October 28, 2019, 06:56:09 PM
Payton should the point as I said going into the start of the season. Too bad we can't seem to rely on anyone else.

Still lost on all of the Frank love from a very loud part of our fanbase which reeks of desperation and rationalization gone mad. Even from those I consider very intelligent observers seem to think this, but something tells me it's about his alleged defensive prowess (which is not good at times against quicker players) and that certain fans seem to pick on his softness when he's such a nice guy, that makes them dig in (oh and Fiz, I know that too).

Trier has his flaws, but he's efficient, I think can improve and will be a useful NBA player as a scoring guard off the bench when you need it who also gets to the line well.

That's what he offered against the Nets when he brought us back into the game. Couldn't see the C's game, but appears he was bad, one sequence the Frank love-in machine ensured was posted on Twitter and felt like some kind of justification for Frank to play.

Never really had faith in DSJ, but he isn't this bad. Maybe Frank will get some minutes tonight. I hope he does well, but what has he really shown? I know, I know Fiz and his brilliant coaching as also can be evidenced here has "mishandled" him, and started him in the 3rd quarter of one game which ruined him...woe is he! Meanwhile Trier got no PT in pre-season and seemed on the fringes, but made the most of his time when he's called upon.

Musings that we may have a trade for Frank already in place, perhaps along with Morris to the Pistons (his brother is there and some other relative, so I hear and of course he played there before) when that window opens.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 28, 2019, 08:09:26 PM
I’m in the fire Fizz camp after this half. Why is no assistant coach on Marcus Morris watch during all dead balls? Walk off tech? Really?

We don’t do anything with urgency. It is no way to play basketball.
Title: YIKES
Post by: chipstern on October 28, 2019, 08:37:56 PM
(https://media3.giphy.com/media/nWjx0FKnRaF56/source.gif)

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/7e/a3/00/7ea300f93e5965f8252f195ef4689a15.gif)

(https://media1.giphy.com/media/3o7bucCEGHZqD1k1uE/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 28, 2019, 08:44:44 PM
Haha

Flip on the game, only to hear, "Knicks back to within EIGHT"

That kind of year, I am afraid.
Title: Re: YIKES
Post by: carlos123 on October 28, 2019, 08:57:35 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 28, 2019, 08:37:56 PM

(https://media1.giphy.com/media/3o7bucCEGHZqD1k1uE/giphy.gif)

My feelings exactly.

And Les' too. Tried hard to become a Positive Pussy, and that's what happens.

GOOD ONE, CHIP
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 28, 2019, 09:02:47 PM
Ain't Over YET, My Pusillanimous Pendejo. 

EMBRACE THE PAIN. 
Title: Oh PLEASE, Lou
Post by: chipstern on October 28, 2019, 09:17:27 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 28, 2019, 09:02:47 PM
Ain't Over YET, My Pusillanimous Pendejo. 

EMBRACE THE PAIN.

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMTU4ODkwMTgxMV5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTgwMTM4MTM0MjE@._V1_.jpg)

So near yet so far...

(https://i0.wp.com/9words.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/good-hand.jpg?resize=660%2C330&ssl=1)

Ques ces sais, POINT GUARD, Fizz? 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 28, 2019, 09:20:53 PM
B POrtis

Porzingis money well spent
Title: Bobby Portis
Post by: chipstern on October 28, 2019, 09:21:39 PM
Up by two with 1:47 remaining. 

Oh, my heart...

Here comes the PG. 
Title: WHAT THE FUCK
Post by: chipstern on October 28, 2019, 09:25:19 PM
(https://media.giphy.com/media/SOdwZYHXgxrC8/giphy.gif)

Bobby PORTIS
Title: Almost. Almost, Almost...
Post by: chipstern on October 28, 2019, 09:27:52 PM
RJ BARRETT.

Bobby Portis [28-11, 4-4 from trey]

15-0 run. 

Fizz finally pushes the right buttons. 

PS: Elfrid with a sore hammy.

Something like...fucking...PRIDE.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 28, 2019, 09:30:41 PM
Victory! Victory! Victory!

(thanks, I needed that)
Title: WTF?
Post by: chipstern on October 28, 2019, 09:32:33 PM
Quote from: elephant on October 28, 2019, 09:30:41 PM
Victory! Victory! Victory!

(thanks, I needed that)

(https://media.tenor.com/images/297bfdec4f3d2f46483e6828efd88f41/tenor.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 28, 2019, 09:38:06 PM
Game ball goes to Portis.

Game sticky keyboard goes to Chip, who willed us to victory.

Better adjustments & play in the second half.

Birth of the Barrett Ntilikina backcourt?

I like Wayne, but could use a sprinkle more of Dot, especially now that Payton May openminutes for a backcourt reshuffle. 
Title: Damn
Post by: chipstern on October 28, 2019, 09:38:22 PM
Bobby Portis a +31 with 2 blocks. 

RJ with 19-15-5.  That's right...FIFTEEN BOARDS. 

Randle, for all his turnovers (a nightmarish 8, count 'em, EIGHT), finished with 13-14-5, a +9.

Knox 14-2-2. 

PS: As Wally points out, Frank shut off Zack's water. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 28, 2019, 09:40:45 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on October 28, 2019, 06:56:09 PM
Payton should the point as I said going into the start of the season. Too bad we can't seem to rely on anyone else.

Still lost on all of the Frank love from a very loud part of our fanbase which reeks of desperation and rationalization gone mad. Even from those I consider very intelligent observers seem to think this, but something tells me it's about his alleged defensive prowess (which is not good at times against quicker players) and that certain fans seem to pick on his softness when he's such a nice guy, that makes them dig in (oh and Fiz, I know that too).

Trier has his flaws, but he's efficient, I think can improve and will be a useful NBA player as a scoring guard off the bench when you need it who also gets to the line well.

That's what he offered against the Nets when he brought us back into the game. Couldn't see the C's game, but appears he was bad, one sequence the Frank love-in machine ensured was posted on Twitter and felt like some kind of justification for Frank to play.

Never really had faith in DSJ, but he isn't this bad. Maybe Frank will get some minutes tonight. I hope he does well, but what has he really shown? I know, I know Fiz and his brilliant coaching as also can be evidenced here has "mishandled" him, and started him in the 3rd quarter of one game which ruined him...woe is he! Meanwhile Trier got no PT in pre-season and seemed on the fringes, but made the most of his time when he's called upon.

Musings that we may have a trade for Frank already in place, perhaps along with Morris to the Pistons (his brother is there and some other relative, so I hear and of course he played there before) when that window opens.

Good post

Had me til you traded Mo
Title: Uhhh...
Post by: chipstern on October 28, 2019, 09:54:18 PM
Watch the game, did you Kiid? 

Thoughts thereof? 
Title: Glad I was wrong
Post by: carlos123 on October 28, 2019, 10:10:04 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 28, 2019, 09:02:47 PM
Ain't Over YET, My Pusillanimous Pendejo. 

EMBRACE THE PAIN.

Glad I was wrong this time.

Hope it happens more often.

Still say 19.
Title: Ommmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Post by: chipstern on October 28, 2019, 10:26:49 PM
We feel your pain, Don Carlos. 

PS: You weren't wrong.  You aren't wrong.  Knicks just didn't give up. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 28, 2019, 11:10:05 PM
My boy Fiz finally "developed" a little.

Good comeback. Nice win. Looking forward to 19 more :))

*** lost on the Frank love, lol, rewind the tape and check, just by way of example, the last two Knick defensive possessions of the third quarter (not the .5 sec chuck), neither of which resulted in a statistical marker of any kind. That stuff. And as for the 0-4 from three, well, if he's still shooting 30% career from 3 like Elfrid Payton when he's as old as EP with 300 career starts instead of TWENTY-FUCKING FIVE, then we'll start to worry!

*****alleged defensive prowess, ya killz me really, very special people around here
Title: Can't lose em all
Post by: Kam on October 28, 2019, 11:23:04 PM
Baby steps. 
Winning on your home court. 
Coming from behind to win. 
Good to learn how to win. 
Repeat until you can do it on the road too. 

That said, the first quarter was some of the worst offense / best defense (by the Bulls).



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 29, 2019, 12:21:20 AM
Looks like a horrendous 1Q followed by a great 4Q.

If you told me RJ would have a 19-15-5 sometime during the season, i'd be excited.  Let alone G4.  Kid's been great.

Portis has talent, but he is the type who plays hard and smart every third or 4th game.  Needs consistency.  At least he came through and put it together this game.  Let's hope it's not just former team revenge ...

Knix are going to have to cut down on Turnovers and fouls.  Though CHI didn't get many FT's.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 29, 2019, 04:21:49 AM
What say a smaller starting lineup?

Robinson
Randle
Barrett
Ellington
Ntilikina

With DSJ & probably Payton out, we still have decent bench options

Dotson
Trier
Knox
Morris
Portis

Distribution in the second unit might be a mess, but it has front court shooting and shot creation that can cause headaches and give drivers space. Less important if Morris looses his mind as a reserve and he’ll be able to maximize the efficiency of the damage he does with other reserves or winded starters to bully. He’s vet enough to make it work if he can set aside his ego. Marcus, Wayne, Trier, Knox and Dot are our designated snipers, though Bobby made a strong case to be one as well tonight.

I think Frank and Barrett are establishing a nice rapport and have complimentary skills. I like most of the shots Frank took and missed. If he keeps getting them I think he’ll start hitting them like he eventually did in FIBA. Ellington not only stretches the floor and defends with good principles and relatively quick feet, but he works hard off the ball and that makes their defenders wind up in the wrong place at good times for us. Morris is a good player but we can’t expect him to move off the ball anything like Ellington.

This would be a big adjustment but I don’t see just swapping Frank for Payton as being enough to change our emerging tendency towards slow starts.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 29, 2019, 10:19:03 AM
If we had beaten the Nets, we'd be 2-2.
Basically we lost to 3 teams who should finish with a better record than us, and beat a weaker team at Home.

Lot of ugliness.
We are a very streaky team on both ends.  Every game so far full of runs.  (finishing a game 15-0 is pretty impressive).

I think part of that goes to turnovers an fouls, which helps other teams get points.  And those are partly due to a lot of unfamiliar players playing together.  But also the roster construction, as we don't have many good defenders, and not many good ball movers.  But those are tow areas I want to see Fizz work on and try to iron out.  This stretch against weak team offers a lot of op for figuring things out.
Title: Re: Uhhh...
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 29, 2019, 11:59:11 AM
Quote from: chipstern on October 28, 2019, 09:54:18 PM
Watch the game, did you Kiid? 

Thoughts thereof?

Watched some.

Portis shut some people up - but we will still hear how we overpaid him - such is the state of America.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 29, 2019, 12:03:27 PM
Portis has talent, but he is the type who plays hard and smart every third or 4th game. 


Se what I mean?

Stupid statement  Keep em coming
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 29, 2019, 01:56:27 PM
Let's see consistency and focus from Portis.
There's a reason the Bulls moved him and WAS let him go.

Check out his game log from last year.
https://www.espn.com/nba/player/gamelog/_/id/3064482/type/nba/year/2019
I just skimmed over Jan-Feb-Mar 2019.
Very erratic stuff.
Might go for 30 one night then 6 the next followed by 12 or somesuch.  Tis a definite pattern.

Randomly I went with March:

March Game Log  2018-19 Regular Season
MIN   FG    PTS
22   1-9       2
39   11-22  28
23   2-8       6
25   3-8      10
31   6-15      14
36   6-11      18
38   6-17      15
19   4-9      11
23   7-11      18
24   1-7        3
23   3-11        6
33   6-12      17
31   9-18      21
25   10-16   23
22   4-12      12
28   10-18   26
28   2-8        7

All his months look like that.
One good game as a Knick and suddenly he's bulletproof and proved the doubters wrong?  That's stupid.

Otherwise I don't think anyone cared much about his salary, since it's short-term.  The 2nd year is a team option, so it's really a one year deal -- we have that cap space next year if we want.  Also he could be a trade chip, since he is signed next year.  Signing Portis made a lot of sense.  Largely a flyer on a 24 year old.

Portis has size and talent.
But needs to get mentally strong.
Consistency isn't easy for young players, but he's been around for a while.  He caught my eye early his rook year, so I've tried to keep tabs on him.  He also needs to improve his defense.
Inconsistency + weak D = teams/coaches have trouble trusting you.  Gotta become reliable.
He can probably do it, if he focuses and gets rid of some lazy habits.
Title: Ready made rookie
Post by: Kam on October 29, 2019, 02:42:11 PM
Among the rookies RJ is:

2nd in points per game
2nd in rebounds per game
5th in assists per game
2nd in steals per game
1st in free throw attempts and free throw makes BUT only shooting 44% from the line
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 29, 2019, 04:10:34 PM
Imagine if he picks up his free throw shooting and reduces his turnovers.

Elfrid officially out for the Magic.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 29, 2019, 05:12:19 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 29, 2019, 01:56:27 PM


Portis has size and talent.
But needs to get mentally strong.
Consistency isn't easy for young players, but he's been around for a while.  He caught my eye early his rook year, so I've tried to keep tabs on him.  He also needs to improve his defense.
Inconsistency + weak D = teams/coaches have trouble trusting you.  Gotta become reliable.
He can probably do it, if he focuses and gets rid of some lazy habits.

You must check yourself

You mentioned Portis’s effort. You can’t simply post stats as evidence
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 29, 2019, 05:15:04 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 29, 2019, 04:10:34 PM
Imagine if he picks up his free throw shooting and reduces his turnovers.

Elfrid officially out for the Magic.

Frannnnkkkk!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on October 29, 2019, 06:23:18 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 28, 2019, 09:40:45 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on October 28, 2019, 06:56:09 PM
Payton should the point as I said going into the start of the season. Too bad we can't seem to rely on anyone else.

Still lost on all of the Frank love from a very loud part of our fanbase which reeks of desperation and rationalization gone mad. Even from those I consider very intelligent observers seem to think this, but something tells me it's about his alleged defensive prowess (which is not good at times against quicker players) and that certain fans seem to pick on his softness when he's such a nice guy, that makes them dig in (oh and Fiz, I know that too).

Trier has his flaws, but he's efficient, I think can improve and will be a useful NBA player as a scoring guard off the bench when you need it who also gets to the line well.

That's what he offered against the Nets when he brought us back into the game. Couldn't see the C's game, but appears he was bad, one sequence the Frank love-in machine ensured was posted on Twitter and felt like some kind of justification for Frank to play.

Never really had faith in DSJ, but he isn't this bad. Maybe Frank will get some minutes tonight. I hope he does well, but what has he really shown? I know, I know Fiz and his brilliant coaching as also can be evidenced here has "mishandled" him, and started him in the 3rd quarter of one game which ruined him...woe is he! Meanwhile Trier got no PT in pre-season and seemed on the fringes, but made the most of his time when he's called upon.

Musings that we may have a trade for Frank already in place, perhaps along with Morris to the Pistons (his brother is there and some other relative, so I hear and of course he played there before) when that window opens.

Good post

Had me til you traded Mo

Hah. Thanks Kid. Wasn't suggesting it was a good idea, but maybe.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 29, 2019, 06:56:04 PM
But while Niko snacks on beignets in the French Quarter, Portis now flourishes in the Bulls’ rotation. Nightly, Portis has been a crucial source of energy, toughness, and competitive fire within the second unit.



https://pippenainteasy.com/2018/03/16/chicago-bulls-core-player-analysis-bobby-portis/
Title: Mavs keep winning
Post by: Kam on October 30, 2019, 12:48:23 AM
9 guys in double figures
KP 10pts Luka 10pts
Leading scorer: THjr 14pts

Bench outscored the starters.
Title: Joker's triple
Post by: Kam on October 30, 2019, 12:50:57 AM
Nikola Jokic with the super rare 10-10-10 triple double
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 30, 2019, 01:08:57 AM
Sympathy for DSJ and Reggie. They can take the time they need to settle their families, their hearts, and their heads. I’m sure their talents will find use when they are ready.
Title: AD's 40/20 game
Post by: Kam on October 30, 2019, 01:47:43 AM
40 pts 20 rebs 

26/27 from the line

Made 21 straight FTs

And he sat the whole 4th quarter.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 30, 2019, 02:37:06 AM
Portis has a consistency problem.
We've seen that in the first 4 games.
Whether it's do to with focus, hoops IQ, or whatnot is hard to tell.
Yeah, he usually provides energy, but not smarts.
Interesting how he can look lost for 2 games, then suddenly play like an all-star, when motivated by his ex-team.  Mixing up crafty aggressive drives with 3's, including step-aside 3's.

I like Portis and am rooting for Portis, but there's something I don't trust about him.  I think the bench role is best for him now.  Might be a guy who plays better with perceived slights and an immediate goal (become a starter).

A guy like Randle gives you a consistent effort/game.  The results fluctuate because some games he gets bottled up, too much one-on-one, charges, etc.  While other times his O is working for him or his 3's dropping.  Plus he benefits from any early offense available.  He's a rhythm guy.  Randles's physical strengths are also his limitations.  My goal for him (and Portis) is to play better D and cut down on fouls).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 30, 2019, 02:42:04 AM
Yeah on a night where Doncic and KZ combined 2-14 on 3's, DAL bench:  Brunson, TIM JR, Delon and Kleber come through in DEN.  Impressive.  Wish I saw that and how DEN negated Donkey and KZ.
They steamrolled DEN's usually very good bench.
Great W for DAL.

9 guys in double figures is tough to do.
Maybe our Knix can do it one game . . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 30, 2019, 03:19:56 AM
Hope Fizz doesn't overuse RJB.
Averaging 37 mins a game.

It's a long 82 game slog for a 19 year old who has never dealt with that many games and  all the travel etc.
And we have a deep team.
I like him playing a lot, but we saw Knox kind of wilt under a full season of big minutes.
I'd try to keep RJB to around 30 minutes a night.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 30, 2019, 08:21:58 AM
RJ will hit the rookie wall, certainly

Whether it is Game 45, 55 or 70 is quite likely  inconsequential

It would only matter if

a)  we were playoff bound

b)  it could be linked to injury risk
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 30, 2019, 09:03:21 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 30, 2019, 02:42:04 AM
Yeah on a night where Doncic and KZ combined 2-14 on 3's, DAL bench:  Brunson, TIM JR, Delon and Kleber come through in DEN.  Impressive.  Wish I saw that and how DEN negated Donkey and KZ.
They steamrolled DEN's usually very good bench.
Great W for DAL.

Looked like Timmy led the comeback...just imagine.

Richard Preston Carlisle is an American basketball coach.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 30, 2019, 10:19:04 AM
Tim is streaky and good when he's on.
But doesn't add much of anything except streak shooting.

Carlisle is a top tier coach.
 

Barrett is 19 which means he's not fully grown into his body despite his NBA frame.  Growth plates and whatnot
Which means there is an injury risk from too much too soon.
And also any kind of major slump can affect confidence.

Just don't think it's a good idea to overwork the kid. 
Fizz rode/pushed Knox last year, using him too much imo.
Take RJB's workload so far and multiply that x 20 and see how well he holds up.

I'd rather give the kid a night off here and there than have him miss games due to injury.  But even without that, I think 30 mpg is much more reasonable, though still a heavy load for a 19 year old rook.   Loooong season.  Play it smart. And we have depth and guys ready to take those extra 7 or 8 mins a night.

I'd target 25-30 mpg and a night off now and then for rest and recovery. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 30, 2019, 10:36:35 AM
Amar'e Stoudemire signs deal to play for China's Fujian Sturgeons

No truth to the rumor that he's going to demand to be called the Sturgeon General.

Ty Lawson is his PG.  STAT is 36 now.

For anyone interested, Fujian is the province at the SE corner of China, across from Taiwan, sort of where Georgia and Florida are located if Florida wasn't tumescent.

Fuzhou, the largest city in Fujian, is where lots of Chinese immigrants have come from the past 20 years.  There are 3 counties north of Fuzhou where apparently everyone has a friend or relative abroad.  And they send money back home, and they help others get started abroad.  It's well-known in China as the main emigration center.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 30, 2019, 01:28:24 PM
Reggie Bullock's sister just murdered in Baltimore.

Had another sister murdered there years before that.

Rough.

https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/crime/bs-md-ci-cr-reggie-bullocks-sister-20191030-20191030-vqwhzhel7bdyfm3tzax3q3vo2a-story.html (https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/crime/bs-md-ci-cr-reggie-bullocks-sister-20191030-20191030-vqwhzhel7bdyfm3tzax3q3vo2a-story.html)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 30, 2019, 03:05:48 PM
Tim is streaky and good when he's on.
But doesn't add much of anything except streak shooting.

Hate to keep picking on you - but it has been shown otherwise
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 30, 2019, 03:41:02 PM
Tim is a bench player in Dallas.  He was a starter here.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 30, 2019, 04:27:34 PM
Finney-Smith and Wright have had strong starts.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 30, 2019, 04:34:25 PM
THJ  PER

with Knicks (part 1) - age 21-22
12.4
wtih Hawks = age 23-24
14.2
with Knicks (part II) - age 25=26
14.4
with Mavs - age 26-27 (just 23 games)
11.4

If Finney-Smtih and Wright - also having youth on their side - continue to play well, THJ will remain in his role.  Of course any injury could also change this, with Curry and Brunson and C Lee also options on the deep Mavs
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 30, 2019, 04:35:11 PM
Intersting Q to ask Hardaway might be if he is enjoying Dallas more - given his lesser role vs winning more games.  I know he loved his time in NY
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 30, 2019, 04:36:36 PM
Amar'e Stoudemire signs deal to play for China's Fujian Sturgeons


AWESOME!  Thanks for the news
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 30, 2019, 04:48:20 PM
Davis with 40 and 20 in just 31 minutes

Lowest minutes for a 40-20 since Elgin Baylor (33)

Baylor had FORTY such 40-20 efforts for his career
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 30, 2019, 04:50:29 PM
Speaking of Antonio, what do you think of the MaxKellerman-Stephen A Smith dust up - after Kellerman stated AD is the best to ever play with LeBron?  (SAS of course siding with Wade - though everyone conveniently forgets K Love).  Kyrie in the mix as well, true
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on October 30, 2019, 06:09:30 PM
Frank not starting as Fizdale is worried about early fouls...will I live long enough to see the Knicks get this PG thing figured out...it's now multiple generations of front offices that seem, incapable of solving the PG problem.

I expected at least a brief rant from Chip on the death of Al Bianchi ....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on October 30, 2019, 06:10:36 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 30, 2019, 10:36:35 AM
Amar'e Stoudemire signs deal to play for China's Fujian Sturgeons
No truth to the rumor that he's going to demand to be called the Sturgeon General.
Better than the Sturgeon King - who was recently shut down for serious code violations...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 30, 2019, 06:42:03 PM
Quote from: Jack Straw on October 30, 2019, 06:09:30 PM
Frank not starting as Fizdale is worried about early fouls...will I live long enough to see the Knicks get this PG thing figured out...it's now multiple generations of front offices that seem, incapable of solving the PG problem.

I expected at least a brief rant from Chip on the death of Al Bianchi ....

Who’s in ther?  Smith?  Gotta get him going
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 30, 2019, 06:51:51 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 30, 2019, 03:41:02 PM
Tim is a bench player in Dallas.  He was a starter here.

He's the 2nd highest paid Mav at $20M this year with a player option for $19M next.  Yikes.

He'll help them here and there, and get at least one blazing streak for a week or so.

But that contract is onerous.

3rd highest paid Mav this year is Counrtly at $13M.

KZ leads.  So all three Knix from the trade are their highest paid players.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 30, 2019, 07:29:53 PM
Quote from: Jack Straw on October 30, 2019, 06:09:30 PM
Frank not starting as Fizdale is worried about early fouls...

Randle with three early assists; flashing the point forward chops he displayed late vs Chicago
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 30, 2019, 07:47:55 PM
He's the 2nd highest paid Mav at $20M this year with a player option for $19M next.  Yikes.


Yeah, but you know NBA salaries are based on circumstance

THJ still a valuable guy
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 30, 2019, 08:08:16 PM
Like watching these young Magic - Isaac, Fultz, Gordon - to go with Vootch and Fournier
Title: After 3 quarters: plus/minus
Post by: Kam on October 30, 2019, 08:45:51 PM
Knicks starters are all negative and the bench are all positive.

All starters are a -9 or worse.

Title: Iso Zo
Post by: Kam on October 30, 2019, 09:07:05 PM
We need scoring, why not play Trier? Is he hurt?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 30, 2019, 09:21:57 PM
Watching on delay

ROYAL IVEY looking dapper

Keep an eye on him moving forward in the NBA ranks
Title: Bah
Post by: Kam on October 30, 2019, 09:22:52 PM
Fizdale is clueless playing Wayne Ellington so long when he clearly doesn't have it. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 30, 2019, 09:25:58 PM
Early second - Knicks playing the old 60s/70s movement O (read:  no picks, no plays) - except none of therm know how

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 30, 2019, 09:52:52 PM
Re:  Ports

Sometimes its just about TALENT

This guy was Player of the Year in SEC as a soph
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 30, 2019, 10:03:46 PM
Hey the "cool" New York team lost again too.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 30, 2019, 10:16:25 PM
Beal and Hachimura leading Wiz over Rockets

Harden with 49.  Westbrook 7
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 30, 2019, 10:57:25 PM
I missed the game.

Looks like some more stuff happened you couldn't make up if you tried.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on October 30, 2019, 11:57:38 PM
Celts might have something this year.

But more importantly they're fun to watch again.
Title: Golden State Woes
Post by: Kam on October 31, 2019, 12:52:13 AM
And now Steph Curry could be missing significant time with a broken wrist/hand.

Hard to see them making the playoffs now.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 31, 2019, 02:39:17 AM
Crazy NBA night.
With Scurry out, GS basically better off tanking and getting a high pick.
Meaning Klay might skip the whole season.  Good op for DAl or someone else to make the playoffs as the 8 seed.

159-158 is pretty insane.
Beal has decided he's going to battle his ass off trying to lead his team.
Wish we had tried to get him.  Entering his prime on a mission.
v. DAl he got tired of Doncic killing the WIZ for 3Q's and started guarding and getting chippy with the bigger Luka all 4Q until he got tossed on a double Tech.  Now he goes toe-to-toe with Harden and nearly gets 50.
Is there a better SG out there?

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on October 31, 2019, 08:23:29 AM
Fizdale is clueless, why do we keep getting these bonehead coaches that always look confused on the sideline.  What is up with Mark Jackson, why is Dolan scared of a real coach.  Ellington looks like a waste, Frenchie needs to go play soccer and we still need a PG.  Is there any logical trade we can make to GS to pry D Angelo from them.  We need a stud.  Also I noticed nobody really dunks on this team. A whole team of non shooting jump shooters.  I sure hope DSmith is working on his drives while he is out.  We need a slasher who can get to the rim and make plays.  Looks like another lost season. Damn
Title: Too Clever by a Half
Post by: lesterluv on October 31, 2019, 10:56:07 AM
Fizdale kept the French lottery pick out of the starting lineup to spare him from foul trouble, the coach said.

Next game, to keep him from reinjuring his groin.

Next game, to keep him ready for Team France in 2020

Next game....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 31, 2019, 11:38:38 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 30, 2019, 07:47:55 PM
He's the 2nd highest paid Mav at $20M this year with a player option for $19M next.  Yikes.


Yeah, but you know NBA salaries are based on circumstance

THJ still a valuable guy

NBA salaries are mostly based on a team willing to overpay.

I think he's a net negative and his career PER basically backs that up.  Especially since he's slightly below average and PER measures O, not D where he is largely ineffective.

AuRevoir had 3 assists last game.
I guess with Harden and Rustbrook dominating the Spalding, other players aren't going to have the ball much, let alone have chances to move it on.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 31, 2019, 11:46:45 AM
I like that Fizz experiments and tries different guys.
But I really really believe in starting a PG.
Who cares if Franc gets in foul trouble?
Also, I find this idea that the 19 year old rook should play 30+ mins and try to learn the NBA Point as well rather frustrating.

As for Portis, I'm going to keep track of his FTA's.
For a guy who O-boards fairly well, he gets few FT's.  But it also is a useful proxy for whether he is driving or just shooting 3's without pressuring the D.  He needs to to both as he did
in his Running of the Bulls game.

And of course this is another lost season.  If you want W's or playoffs.  Everybody is real young and/or real new.  Also  the PG void is an issue.  And some duplicated skills on a crowded roster.
Fizz has his work cut out for him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 31, 2019, 12:04:18 PM
It’s clear RJ is not a closing point guard.

The best ROI from a coaching perspective is getting Frank to hit shots.

Our fourth quarter spacing was noticeably terrible.

Fizz is not doing so hot winning me back to his side with the coaching decisions he’s making.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 31, 2019, 01:21:15 PM
Frank is still super tentative.  Doesn't drive looking to score.  He thinks the other four Knicks on the floor are always better options and treats himself as option 5 about 99% of the time he has the ball.  Have the coaches worked with him on this?  Apparently not. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 31, 2019, 01:40:32 PM
What drives me crazy is he is often tentative on his passes as well.

Sometimes you just have to be aggressive and think "I'm getting my shot off" and only alter that mindset if the defense forces you to or makes a mistake.

Took me a long time, but the last 10 years plus, I think the ball is going in every time I shoot it.  And when it doesn't,  I try to understand why and beleive I will correct that on the next shot.  Or make sure to take a different type of shot (if say I feel my 3-ball is off; or my corner 3's are wacky, but from top of the arc is good, or whatever).

You just need to offend with confidence.
Also, map where your teammates are so you can make quick passing decisions.

Franc just looks so much more in his element on D, where he knows what to do, and usually has an impact.  This was especially noticeable this Summer on Team Frenchie, where as soon as change of possession, Franc's energy picked up, he knew where to go immediately, he was engaged and confident.  Strange.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 31, 2019, 01:57:47 PM
It pisses me off that we see this and scouts who watch him didn't see this.  He was a waste of a #8 pick.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 31, 2019, 02:18:59 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 31, 2019, 01:57:47 PM
He was a waste of a #8 pick.

Perhaps, but we won't know until after 25 starts, lol.

** I suspect, that eventually, likely sooner than later, he will become exceptionally good value for 2 second round picks for somebody!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 31, 2019, 02:26:49 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on October 31, 2019, 02:18:59 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 31, 2019, 01:57:47 PM
He was a waste of a #8 pick.

Perhaps, but we won't know until after 25 starts, lol.

** I suspect, that eventually, likely sooner than later, he will become exceptionally good value for 2 second round picks for somebody!

What's the value of playing  a game manager at PG who isn't a threat to the defense.  You're playing 4 on 5 out there.  Yes the defense is good.   But you need to keep other defenses honest also, so the ceiling for this type of prospect s a late #1 or early 2nd rounder.   He went 8th because some scout somewhere said "if he ever gets an offensive game he will be worth picking this early"..... well... we are still waiting for something he innately doesn't have.  Never will have.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 31, 2019, 02:30:55 PM
Scouting and projecting young players isn't easy.
In Eurohoopsland, everyone touches the ball and passes, so the PG role is somewhat devalued.  Also, they don't go in for 1-on-1 scoring PG action like the NBA.  It was probably hard to detect that Franc couldn't shoot or would have trouble being an NBA PG.  And of course he was 18 at the time, so you have to try to project out.  While Euroteams tend to play vets heavy minutes and young guys not much.  I'll try to check on Franc's French minutes, but I think it was under 20 a game.

As for scouting, Franc was seen a pass-first true PG with good vision and good athleticism.  Check out this write-up on pre-NBA Franc which credits him with ...
Well, hell, I'll just quote the entire NBAdraftnet positives on Franco:
Quote
Strengths: Elite size for a point guard with very good athleticism and quickness … Impressive wingspan (close to 7 ft)… Very mature for his age with a good basketball IQ … He has a thin frame, but his body structure suggests that he can add weight and increase his muscle tone nicely …

A true point guard with a “pass first” mentality … He can control the pace of the game nicely … Excellent passer with great court vision … He is always looking to find the open teammate … He can pass on the move and also while penetrating … Excels on the open court and loves to run the break … Great ball handler … He has a nice hesitation dribble and he has also an improving crossover dribble on his repertoire …

Possesses an explosive first step …Really good on ISO situations thanks to his athleticism, length and excellent ball handling … He can create his own shoot and score off the dribble from mid-range and has also a floater as a counter move …
When he has time to gather he can finish strong at the rim… Improving 3-point shooter… He is already very good on Pick and Roll situations as the ball handler, because he shows patience and is always looking for the right choice …

His body and physical tools are his biggest weapons on Defense … He has great lateral quickness which helps him stay in front of his man … When he is motivated on Defense he can be a lockdown defender … His length and athleticism help him make a lot of steals … Versatile defender with the potential to guard multiple positions in the future … He has a high upside…

Everything I bolded is essentially just wrong.

Great ballhandler?  Rookie year he could barely bring the ball up court under pressure and would be forced to the sidelines.
Can create his own shot?
Explosive first step

You can check out the shorter weakness section, which says that his J looks a bit funny which is probably why his 3's aren't really good.

Quote
Overall: Ntilikina is undoubtedly one of the best International players of his generation. His elite physical tools and feel for the game, combined with his high upside makes him a really intriguing prospect ... He is not NBA ready just yet, but he has all the tools to become a very good player in the future ...

Er . . .
Maybe the Knix development process has been partly to blame.  Les thinks Fizz has jerked him around.  Management certainly has..
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 31, 2019, 02:31:08 PM
Oh hell no. He’s just going to be getting better on D as he goes. He’s quick for his length with the ball and noticeably better at getting to spots than he was. Getting there on balance to finish jumpers and accounting for help to finish drives would up his percentages.

Frank is climbing the guard pile. He should be given time to get his offensive role together.

I disagree about his offense, Kam. It’s better for us if it doesn’t take another coach or another team to bring it out.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 31, 2019, 02:32:34 PM
Just do what he does and be able to nail the shot at about 35% and he's of immense value to winning teams.

** I guess you don't watch anybody else but the Knicks and haven't seen many of those, lol.

He ain't no Markelle Fultz, or DJr., lol, ain't no problem with the mechanics. His FLOOR is vaunted Elfrid's career average. But Kam knows everything, as demonstrated by his track record. ;)


*** Let's just stop twisting ourselves in knots to avoid playing him or fucking trade him already. He can't hurt us in the least. There is nothing to hurt.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 31, 2019, 02:39:38 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 31, 2019, 02:30:55 PM
Maybe the Knix development process has been partly to blame.  Les thinks Fizz has jerked him around.  Management certainly has..

It's possible I am totally wrong.** But let's just find out shall we. We didn't get doodoosquat from a million Mudiay minutes or Trey Burke minutes. Now it's Elfrid Payton minutes or whoever minutes. Just hand him the keys. Give him the unlimited run everybody else has had. Or ship him the f' out...BASTA YA.



*** It has happened...once.



*** Seriously, nobody else has gotten the 45 second yanks Frank gets, despite the whatever I love Frank words the other day, it's like FazWhale has a viagra-induced hard on to destroy the boy. Yeah we've all seen the hesitancy and the weak ass passes, and we've also seen sweet moves and bad ass passes. It's obvious as hell it's  head that's keeping him from having an NBA game, though clearly he's never gonna be a Russ Westbrook beat your ass down off the drive but he doesn't have to be. Now maybe that head is uncurable, unfixable, certainly there are guys like that, but I don't think so, you can see how he's been treated from the bench, anyway, we invested the #8, just do your due diligence and then move on, so stupid, but it's what we've come to expect from the "brain trust." I mean how many starts (twice as many as frank in career) & minutes did K Knox get last year and it's resulted in a marginally improved player who will still play a critical role in losing you dozens of games a year if you actually left him on the floor. But he ain't a Euro and he's willing to drive into traffic with the truly, truly horrible shit until your eyes bleed.
Title: Come on
Post by: Kam on October 31, 2019, 02:58:00 PM
What did i say that touched a nerve?  There's no aggression in his game.   I've long been a Frank booster but he has watched NBA ball for a few years now and shown no adjustment to this more one on one style.
 You need to at least have the threat of being able to take your man and score on him.

So us as fans of his and anyone else can see that he has the killer instinct mentality of an earthworm.  He either knows he can't do it athletically, or he just doesn't have the minimum selfishness required to be a primary ball handler.  It's not eurohoops.  Its the NBA.  You have to be able to get yours.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 31, 2019, 03:02:16 PM
Word was DAL was interested in Franc, as they wanted a pass-first PG. Though that might have just been a feint to get the Knix to leave Smith Jr. for them.  Phil likes big G's.  Wanted a ball-mover who played D, wasn't worried too much about scoring.

Drafting and scouting isn't easy.

Knix had their choice of two touted PG's.
Jr. Smith was seen as dynamic but already had a knee op.  And his floor game and defense were questioned.  Though it was assumed he could score at will.

No one knew that Donovan Mitchell's middle name was Dwyane Wade, or he wouldn't have lasted to #13. I'm glad we didn't draft Monk (#11) who looks lost on D and who shot has been shot.

It was a pretty deep draft:
John or Zach Collins would have been nice to have.

There were the usual late-round picks who are better than your #9 pick:
Bam #23; Kuz #27; Derrick White #29

Nobody knew that Derrick White was the 2nd best guard (after Micthell) below the Top 5.  And even in the Top 5, it's not clear Fox is better, though he's more of a real Point.  Same with Bonzo Lol.

Drafts are crapshoots.
Knix had a good Euroscouting system.  And I'm pretty sure the Franc pick was before Phil fired our main Euro-scout Gaines.
I'm always skeptical of Euro PG's.  Few succeed in the NBA.  But I was happy with either PG choice -- Smith or Franc.
Certainly looks like a draft where best player was regardless of position would have been better.  But seems Franc and Smith were (mistakenly) rated highly.

An odd draft in which 5 of the first 9 picks were PG's.
And 3 of those -- Fultz, Ball and Franc can't shoot.
4 of them terrible on 3's
(Fox just below 35% for his career -- but hit 37% in Y2).
Ball has the 2nd best career 3-Pt% of the group at 31.8%
Title: Detroit
Post by: Kam on October 31, 2019, 03:48:05 PM
Reggie Jackson and a future #2 for Frank and Morris.
Title: Second to second to Nunn
Post by: Kam on October 31, 2019, 03:50:47 PM
https://www.nba.com/article/2019/10/31/2019-20-kia-rookie-ladder-week-1 (https://www.nba.com/article/2019/10/31/2019-20-kia-rookie-ladder-week-1)
Title: Mills - Fizdale rift?
Post by: Kam on November 01, 2019, 04:48:09 PM
In the latest installment of our PG melodrama it appears that one Steve Mills got in Coach Fizfails ear.


Knicks coach David Fizdale flip-flopped Friday morning and has decided to sic Frenchman Frank Ntilikina on Celtics star point guard Kemba Walker after all.

On Thursday, Fizdale stuck to his guns and announced he would continue to start the backcourt of RJ Barrett and Wayne Ellington amidst this point guard crisis.

Interestingly, Knicks president Steve Mills huddled with Ntilikina after Thursday’s practice but it’s unclear whether Mills influenced Fizdale’s decision-making.
Title: Fizzing into the wind
Post by: Kam on November 01, 2019, 04:55:15 PM
This makes me mad.  You don't believe in Frank's offense? Cool.  But be professional.  Follow the rules of the locker room.  Locker room expects a "next man up" system.  If you have one healthy PG available, you start that guy.  Period.  End of sentence.   

You don't minimize the guy and say we are starting him because of defense against Walker in the worlds.  OK -- Does that mean he won't start the next game??  Why didn't he start the first Celtics game? What a stupid way to support your starter you just elevated to start - by undercutting his value.

Start him because you believe in next man up.  Because you know he can do the whole job.  This whole chapter is a big Fizfail fuck up.  "Duuuh i'm starting Frank cuz someone reminded me that he should because we need defense and he played good defense against Kemba even though i didn't utilize him in the first game."


I want him to say "we gonna start Frank and expect him to take 10-15 shots tonight".  Show Frank that you believe in his offense -- you kissed Mudiays butt crack for months, say something nice about Frank too.  Not just that he's your only option.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 01, 2019, 04:56:56 PM
What's the value of playing  a game manager at PG who isn't a threat to the defense.  You're playing 4 on 5 out there.  Yes the defense is good.   But you need to keep other defenses honest also, so the ceiling for this type of prospect s a late #1 or early 2nd rounder.  He went 8th because some scout somewhere said "if he ever gets an offensive game he will be worth picking this early"..... well... we are still waiting for something he innately doesn't have.  Never will have.


Actually when we picked him our scouts thought he could already be effective offensively.  Why?  Because we saw him shine in one event.

Lazy.  And quick to be impressed.  More digging was necessary

And when interviewed, Frank was a fine young man - one that would be great to bring home to momma.  But was there any internal FIRE?  Character goes only so far.
Title: Phil
Post by: Kam on November 01, 2019, 05:00:52 PM
Phil never believed in the new style of PG who needs to be a threat to score from everywhere on the court.  His Triangle offense always featured one or two guys who were scoring duds.

Frank never had his manhood challenged on a playground apparently.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 01, 2019, 05:07:28 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 31, 2019, 02:30:55 PM
Scouting and projecting young players isn't easy.
In Eurohoopsland, everyone touches the ball and passes, so the PG role is somewhat devalued.  Also, they don't go in for 1-on-1 scoring PG action like the NBA.  It was probably hard to detect that Franc couldn't shoot or would have trouble being an NBA PG.  And of course he was 18 at the time, so you have to try to project out.  While Euroteams tend to play vets heavy minutes and young guys not much.  I'll try to check on Franc's French minutes, but I think it was under 20 a game.

As for scouting, Franc was seen a pass-first true PG with good vision and good athleticism.  Check out this write-up on pre-NBA Franc which credits him with ...
Well, hell, I'll just quote the entire NBAdraftnet positives on Franco:
Quote
Strengths: Elite size for a point guard with very good athleticism and quickness … Impressive wingspan (close to 7 ft)… Very mature for his age with a good basketball IQ … He has a thin frame, but his body structure suggests that he can add weight and increase his muscle tone nicely …

A true point guard with a “pass first” mentality … He can control the pace of the game nicely … Excellent passer with great court vision … He is always looking to find the open teammate … He can pass on the move and also while penetrating … Excels on the open court and loves to run the break … Great ball handler … He has a nice hesitation dribble and he has also an improving crossover dribble on his repertoire …

Possesses an explosive first step …Really good on ISO situations thanks to his athleticism, length and excellent ball handling … He can create his own shoot and score off the dribble from mid-range and has also a floater as a counter move …
When he has time to gather he can finish strong at the rim… Improving 3-point shooter… He is already very good on Pick and Roll situations as the ball handler, because he shows patience and is always looking for the right choice …

His body and physical tools are his biggest weapons on Defense … He has great lateral quickness which helps him stay in front of his man … When he is motivated on Defense he can be a lockdown defender … His length and athleticism help him make a lot of steals … Versatile defender with the potential to guard multiple positions in the future … He has a high upside…

Everything I bolded is essentially just wrong.

Great ballhandler?  Rookie year he could barely bring the ball up court under pressure and would be forced to the sidelines.
Can create his own shot?
Explosive first step

You can check out the shorter weakness section, which says that his J looks a bit funny which is probably why his 3's aren't really good.

Quote
Overall: Ntilikina is undoubtedly one of the best International players of his generation. His elite physical tools and feel for the game, combined with his high upside makes him a really intriguing prospect ... He is not NBA ready just yet, but he has all the tools to become a very good player in the future ...

Er . . .
Maybe the Knix development process has been partly to blame.  Les thinks Fizz has jerked him around.  Management certainly has..

Weaknesses

Weak finisher around the basket. Often shies away from using explosiveness to get over his defenders.
Needs to continue getting stronger as he learns how to take contact in driving lanes
Prefers to defer to others to create offense despite his capabilities.

------------
In a year of depth at the guard position, Ntilikina adds to that depth being the top International guard prospect in this draft.  Good size, versatility, and a solid defender but not the level of the top 4-5 American perimeter prospects.  Mid-first round talent and has a chance to enjoy a long NBA career.”



“While Ntilikina has been playing more as an off-guard at Strasbourg his future is as a point. His physical attributes and feel for the game lead to a likely high upside. While he's currently not of the level of the top American point guard prospects in this draft, I'd expect to see Ntilikina's name to come up by the middle of the first round at the latest."



Title: Re: Phil
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 01, 2019, 05:18:21 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 01, 2019, 05:00:52 PM
Phil never believed in the new style of PG who needs to be a threat to score from everywhere on the court.  His Triangle offense always featured one or two guys who were scoring duds.

Frank never had his manhood challenged on a playground apparently.

Phil never won without MICHAEL JORDAN or KOBE BRYANT doing the breaking down of defenses that usually the best PGs do for contending teams

There is a reason James Harden has played so much point and is often now seen as a combo - and to a lesser extent why Fiz thinks RJ can play it, even at 19.

- Break down D
- Score when the opportunity provides
- Make solid "other" decision which leads to a productive offensive trip when it doesnt

This is a FAIL thus far for Nillie.  He's a paper pusher.  Non dynamic (but yeah - still young at least)

Ball moving type points really need to also have the "strong leader" aarow in their quiver.  Another FAIL - he lets others dictate pulse of the team )but again - still young)

Admitting a draft mistake is often tough but right now keeping Frank is saying WE STILL BELIEVE IN THAT ZEN GUY WE SHOWED THE DOOR
Title: Re: Second to second to Nunn
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 01, 2019, 05:29:03 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 31, 2019, 03:50:47 PM
https://www.nba.com/article/2019/10/31/2019-20-kia-rookie-ladder-week-1 (https://www.nba.com/article/2019/10/31/2019-20-kia-rookie-ladder-week-1)


RUI!!!!

Hachimura is winning over fans and teammates alike with his early play. The No. 9 pick has started all four games for the 1-3 Wizards, averaging 18.0 points and 7.0 rebounds (tied for 1st among rookies) on 46.9% shooting. Coach Scott Brooks is giving the former Gonzaga forward free rein, so he should be a regular on the Ladder. “He's going to be special in this league. I think he has the potential to be a star," Isaiah Thomas said of his teammate. "I always tell him he reminds me of Kawhi Leonard when he first came into the league; big body, big hands, midrange game, he knows the game really well."
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 01, 2019, 05:31:48 PM
Thybulle’s numbers on offense won’t wow you, but the No. 20 pick out of Washington makes his money on the defensive end. Through four games, Thybulle has 12 steals (leading all NBA players) and 6 blocks, both tops among rookies. He’s had multiple steals in all four games (setting a Sixers rookie record) and two or more blocks in three of the four, even more impressive considering he’s only seeing about 20 minutes per game.



Thybulle is the ACTUAL real life defender so many of you insist Nillie IS, could be
Title: Chasedown block!
Post by: Kam on November 01, 2019, 07:43:01 PM
Frank's career NBA highlight!
Title: 8 man rotation
Post by: Kam on November 01, 2019, 08:38:52 PM
Only Knox, Ellington, and Portis have seen time off the bench in the first half.

Frank with 0 assists.
Title: Can MMorris play a former team every game
Post by: Kam on November 01, 2019, 09:56:27 PM
Please?
Title: Free throws cost us this one
Post by: Kam on November 01, 2019, 10:01:32 PM
Really hurts to lose because you can't make the freebies.


The poorly coached team shot 14-21 from FT
The well coached team show 27-29 from FT
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 02, 2019, 03:08:01 AM
Free throws and the Randle miscues. As major issues go, they seem pretty fixable. Do we get it done?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 02, 2019, 06:52:04 AM
Franc makes a good effort on D, is usually in the right spot, uses his long arms, and is effective on that end.  He thinks well on D. 
Can get better navigating screens.  He's a good defender.  Maybe best on the team.

Mitch is foul prone. 
And I'm not even sure who our 3rd best defender is.
Taj I guess.
Followed by . . . ?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 02, 2019, 06:56:13 AM
Seems like we played a solid game and came close on the Road.
We don't have the continuity/familiarity/chemistry other teams have.  But we do have effort and some talent, and play hard.

Knix have been a very streaky team this year.  But looks like this was a game that was close throughout, and not full of big runs.
I saw some replay, but the internet connection let me down.

Looks like Franc got some stats across the board, given good run.
Let Franc do his thing while the other PG's are out.
RJB and others can still initiate plenty of offense.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 02, 2019, 10:36:43 AM
Mostly off highlights, Knox made a number of good plays.
A nice offensive rebound.
Stole the ball on a good double team trap.
Finished with a layup on the break.
Even one BOS play, he pointed for someone to take a man so he could switch out, and hesitated in between when Knix were slow to pick up the inside man.
Last Knick play, Knox got the tipped rebound and immediately fired it out to Morris for the tying 3.  Not sure why RJB drive into the paint for a shot down 3 with time dwindling.  But Knox knew we needed a 3 and knew where Morris was.
Knox also looked confident shooting 3's.

A nice variety of good plays by Knox.
(again, just off highlights . . .)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 02, 2019, 12:05:50 PM
Mike and Clyde werent sure why the genius coach Stevens didnt have his charges foul Barrett.

Knicks lost by 2 on the road to a top foe.  With Frank playing big minutes.

Let him have another go.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 02, 2019, 01:38:40 PM
Replay highlights I watched were 10 mins with Celts announcers.

I always worry that you might foul a guy as he launches a 3.  Giving him 3 FT's and possibly a completely awful 4 point play.  Some guys I'd trust more than others to judge when to foul. 

But a rookie making his first try at finding a game tying shot?
I guess Clyde & Co. were thinking about RJB's terrible FT shooting.
And they have a valid point.

I shouldn't have been lazy and should have sought out an MSG highlight feed.

I'm sure teams are already emphasizing D and scouting on Barrett.  Reminding folks that he's a lefty, doesn't pass much, likes to drive all the way in.  But he is crafty and really plays the game at his own pace.  There were two fast breaks on which he slowed down to execute his move and scored nicely.  Real nice to see a rook who doesn't rush.  RJB has been quite good on finishing around the rim.  Impressive.

But RJB is going to get more defensive focus and better defenders on him.  (after the first or second game, I noted that teams will quickly stop putting small guards on him).  RJB will need to adjust.  Including passing more on drives.
Title: Signs of trouble
Post by: Kam on November 02, 2019, 02:10:59 PM
Julius Randle’s postgame interaction with the media was interesting. Frustration is mounting because of all the double-teams he’s faced so far, plus the added responsibilities of being a point forward and bringing the ball up occasionally. After being verbose as the unofficial team spokesman since training camp, Randle gave one-word, two-word and three-word answers after Friday’s loss. Randle attempted just seven shots — a season low — and scored eight points, which marked the first time he missed double-figures this season. Randle’s decision to move the ball didn’t always work as he racked up another six turnovers. That’s 25 in the past five games — five per outing. Randle was outspoken after the Orlando loss Wednesday, blaming himself for not playing well. Was Friday a shot boycott and a media boycott?

“It’s tough for Julius not having a true playmaking point guard,’’ said one person close to the situation. “Responsibility falls to him to facilitate and with assists comes turnovers. He’s probably just frustrated because he has immense pride.’’
Title: Brotha Bogdan
Post by: Kam on November 02, 2019, 02:13:57 PM
Bogdan Bogdanovic can become a restricted free agent after the season and the Sacramento Kings haven't been able to work out a long-term contract extension with the shooting guard.

Sean Deveney of Heavy reported the Kings made the maximum offer of $51 million over four years, and it was declined. The New York Knicks headline the teams that have taken an interest in the situation and are waiting to see if he becomes available for trade.
Title: Offseason re-do
Post by: Kam on November 02, 2019, 02:18:15 PM
We should've tried to get Malcolm Brogdan and Julius Randle.   It would've cost us a couple of future picks.  But we would be an actual good team.  With a winning record.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 02, 2019, 04:36:17 PM
I’m ready to continue to grow the Frank - RJ backcourt. That along with turning Mitch into a 28-30 mpg player are the two most promising options for internal improvement.

Having Randle pick his way open for catches in the pinch post deserves more of a look than Randle barreling in from the perimeter against set defenders.

Randle and Portis need to both better understand and execute their defensive assignments.

Onward and upward.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 02, 2019, 05:48:47 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 02, 2019, 04:36:17 PM
Randle and Portis need to both better understand and execute their defensive assignments.

How likely is this?

There was one 1st half play where Randle suddenly ran to double a perimeter player without the ball.  You can see his man Theis hesitate for a second before realizing his defender got inexplicably lost.  He rolls to the hoop and gets the ball.  Franc seeing Randle's weird cockup splits the difference between his man on the far side and Theis, but has no chance of coming over and stopping a Big on the move with 7" on him.

Randle & Portis both look bad on D.  And foul a lot.
I said before the season that you couldn't pair them due to their D-ficiencies.

Morris works on D but also fouls too much.
Morris looks like he should be better than he is (and thinks he is).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 02, 2019, 06:45:49 PM
I leave Morris aside. I think Randle and Portis need to be on an offensive creation break while they figure out moving the ball, moving without the ball, and maximizing their team D. When that stuff is showing major improvement they can open back up their games. Till then catch and pass or catch and finish, pick on and off the ball (without fouling) and get to better spots. Build confidence and energy by having them apply themselves to narrower tasks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 02, 2019, 07:05:13 PM
UTAh could really use Iggy.
They have nobody who can guard LeBJ, Kawhi, PG.

Bogdanovich and Jingles can shoot.  Royce ONeal is physical but a 26 year old 2nd year guy just 6'4".  Jeff Green is 33 and has Tim Thomas disease.
Title: Re: Brotha Bogdan
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 02, 2019, 09:49:32 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 02, 2019, 02:13:57 PM
Bogdan Bogdanovic can become a restricted free agent after the season and the Sacramento Kings haven't been able to work out a long-term contract extension with the shooting guard.

Sean Deveney of Heavy reported the Kings made the maximum offer of $51 million over four years, and it was declined. The New York Knicks headline the teams that have taken an interest in the situation and are waiting to see if he becomes available for trade.

Great

Another sniper they can sadly bring off the bench
Title: Re: Offseason re-do
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 02, 2019, 09:55:05 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 02, 2019, 02:18:15 PM
We should've tried to get Malcolm Brogdan and Julius Randle.   It would've cost us a couple of future picks.  But we would be an actual good team.  With a winning record.

Looking like a good call.

4/85 for Brogdon wasnt a concern.  But we'd have had to send a #1 and likely protect it for just '20 and maybe '21
Title: Re: Brotha Bogdan
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 02, 2019, 10:54:35 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 02, 2019, 02:13:57 PM
Bogdan Bogdanovic can become a restricted free agent after the season and the Sacramento Kings haven't been able to work out a long-term contract extension with the shooting guard.

Sean Deveney of Heavy reported the Kings made the maximum offer of $51 million over four years, and it was declined. The New York Knicks headline the teams that have taken an interest in the situation and are waiting to see if he becomes available for trade.

Dennis Smith, Bullock and a heavily protected #1 matches salaries.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Urethra_Franklin on November 03, 2019, 01:07:58 AM
What's going on with Dennis Smith??  I haven't really been following the season so far but noticed he's only averaging about 8 mpg?  I saw he had to miss the Celtics game due to his stepmom's death, but can't find any mention of his lack of playing time during the 3 games he was dressed for
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 03, 2019, 02:34:32 AM
Jr. Smith had back trouble in pre-season. 
When he came back in regular season, he just looked un-confident and rusty.  Didn't look right.  Struggled.

With the stuffed roster we have, I am not giving any 1st round pick out in a trade unless I'm getting a key player.  I'd rather kick in Taj or Ellington or Dot or Franc as a trade sweetener, rather than give away a 1st rounder.  We draft pretty well, we have high picks, we could use the cheap rookie deals to balance out our cap

Maybe the only thing Phil did well was not give away 1st rounders.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 03, 2019, 02:35:37 AM
As for Brogdon, many/most here wanted him. 
The guy can play and fits any team.
My favorite player in the Association.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 03, 2019, 02:36:13 AM
yeah.... not too sure Kings give us Bogdan for Frank or Taj
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 03, 2019, 02:37:14 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 03, 2019, 02:35:37 AM
As for Brogdon, many/most here wanted him. 
The guy can play and fits any team.
My favorite player in the Association.

Wanting him wasnt too much of a stretch of thought

Price always matters

Unprotected 1 and he was all yours.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 03, 2019, 02:40:55 AM
FULTZ starts and splits game 24-24 with Augustin

Nice to see.  4-7 from field with 3 steals
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 03, 2019, 03:17:09 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 03, 2019, 02:36:13 AM
yeah.... not too sure Kings give us Bogdan for Frank or Taj

Well, unfortunately SACto already loaded up on bench vets this Summer.  But Dedmon, Ariza and Cory Joe have all underperformed thus far.  Rich Holmes, a fave of mine, has been solid.

But can always look for a 3-way, in which we give a bench load of reserves to a thin team and they give SAC a 1st and a player for salary ballast. 

Not sure what SacKings need/want.
Which is probably why a pick would appeal to them.
Knix primarily need to get a PG from somewhere.
But I guess being opportunistic on young talent as it becomes available is always sensible.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 03, 2019, 03:37:39 AM
Makes as much sense to play Bogdon at PG as it does Barrett.

But not so sure we are giving him 5-70 for 2020-'25
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 03, 2019, 03:39:01 AM
That TYPE of deal is not a problem for me.  Take a guy back in deal that you WANT TO extend.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 03, 2019, 03:40:18 AM
Beauty of including Smith is that you save 5+ mil for 2020-21 if Bogdonovic doesnt stay
Title: Re: Signs of trouble
Post by: elephant on November 03, 2019, 12:57:56 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 02, 2019, 02:10:59 PM

]“It’s tough for Julius not having a true playmaking point guard,’’[/b] said one person close to the situation. “Responsibility falls to him to facilitate and with assists comes turnovers. He’s probably just frustrated because he has immense pride.’’

This rings true to me and is something we've seen from game one. Tried to do too much. He's a guy who needs a strong point guard directing shit.

We don't have one.

When he tries to compensate, it looks reckless. Randle is really good, but in this context, all his weaknesses are on display.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 03, 2019, 01:13:16 PM
Has to make more clever decisions.  Timing and non telegraphing are key.

Bullish on Randle?  Yes.  Does so much offensively.  Love how the Knicks are in contention every game, since they have fire power to recover from deficits.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 03, 2019, 01:15:57 PM
Reminder - game is at SIX O'CLOCK today
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 03, 2019, 06:13:39 PM
Franc & Portis starting.

Chance to see what's up with SacKings.
Ariza has played more than 20 minutes every game, but hasn't scored in half the games so far,  Last game he played 23 mins and didn't take a FG.
Odd,

Hield with a slow start to the season.
Along with most Kings.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 03, 2019, 06:22:42 PM
Knix offense mostly posting up and iso plays.
Mid-range shots.

Knix with few passes.

Lotta fouls.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 03, 2019, 06:48:45 PM
I wish I knew what coach says to the guys during the timeouts.

I never see any difference!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 03, 2019, 06:50:24 PM
Portis and Randle have been awful.

Knox making lots of mistakes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 03, 2019, 06:53:10 PM
This game is unwatchable from a NYK perspective
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 03, 2019, 06:54:45 PM
Not if you're scouting Bogdanovic.

Weak Knick rebounding.
Kind of bad overall play.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 03, 2019, 07:12:20 PM
It's pathetic how Frank is used on offense.

His role is to make the simple, obvious lateral pass....and nothing else?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 03, 2019, 07:18:28 PM
Quote from: elephant on November 03, 2019, 07:12:20 PM
It's pathetic how Frank is used on offense.

His role is to make the simple, obvious lateral pass....and nothing else?

That’s years of European coaching ingrained into his FIBA brain. 
Title: Can Chip Get A Mulligan?
Post by: chipstern on November 03, 2019, 07:24:19 PM
Do I have permission to change my call from 39-43 to 2-80?

Yikes. 

That was sadder than McKinley's Funeral.

["Even the horses cried."]

One hardly knows where to begin. 

But let's start with R.J. playing 35-40 minutes a game. 

Come on Fizz. 

And for all of the wonderful intimations of the player he is and the player he might yet be?

His free throw shooting is simply...BIZARRE. 

Anyway, we now return you to your David Fizdale Death Watch Countdown. 

Clyde On Buddy Held's Jumper: "Easy, like Sunday morning."
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 03, 2019, 07:30:44 PM
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/--_4TSFw3oIU/Xb9wcJTfHXI/AAAAAAAAEuU/LlzyrSjrjlkWv2CQ6PZ9_pnlmKyWznkWQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/363F0AC7-CACF-41BB-A427-A3C8E3794458.jpeg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 03, 2019, 07:33:46 PM
The thing is Franc stops and makes that pass about 4 feet beyond the 3 point line.
Almost every time Franc does anything I think he needs to be a few feet closer to the basket.  Just no threat to the D.

If you think this game is ugly, HOU was down 32 after 1Q!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 03, 2019, 07:42:20 PM
Frankie Fly, baby

Leadin'

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 03, 2019, 07:50:11 PM
It's pathetic how Frank is used on   MASQERADES AT offense.


Fixed

Sorry - doesnt play exceptional D either.  Did not ONCE in the first half try to stamp the game by harrassing Fox

Fiz game plan (switching) at fault?  OK, fine.  Shift the blame.  I am cool with that

Everyone did overeact to Kings being 0-5.  Not a bad team.  Get back soon, Marvin.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 03, 2019, 07:56:19 PM
Gibson, anyone?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 03, 2019, 07:58:36 PM
Noticed the last two games -

Teammates have started to look at Frank and NOT give him the ball.
.
Has to be corrected by staff
Title: Frank doesn’t want it
Post by: Kam on November 03, 2019, 08:04:06 PM
He doesn’t want the ball.  It’s a hot potato.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 03, 2019, 08:08:47 PM
Have Morris in both my fantasy leagues

Real good player
Title: Fizdale
Post by: Kam on November 03, 2019, 08:18:39 PM
Why the hell did Robinson not start? He’s the only positive plus minus on this team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 03, 2019, 08:20:52 PM
By the way - I have ZERO problem with RJ Barrett playing many, many minutes
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 03, 2019, 08:27:34 PM
Iggy says - "hey boys, this is how you make a free throw"
Title: Re: Fizdale
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 03, 2019, 08:32:36 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 03, 2019, 08:18:39 PM
Why the hell did Robinson not start? He’s the only positive plus minus on this team.

Real weird

Held Celtics under 25 in first quarter last game.
Title: Plop Flop, Fizz Jizz, Oh What A Relief It Is
Post by: chipstern on November 03, 2019, 08:51:23 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 03, 2019, 08:18:39 PM
Why the hell did Robinson not start? He’s the only positive plus minus on this team.

Sprained ring finger on his left hand.

Was bothering him throughout. 

You still looking to trade Marcus Morris? 

PS: Reggie Jackson with some serious back issues.  Stress reaction.  Out for a month. 
Title: Re: Fizdale
Post by: Kam on November 03, 2019, 08:53:48 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 03, 2019, 08:32:36 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 03, 2019, 08:18:39 PM
Why the hell did Robinson not start? He’s the only positive plus minus on this team.

Real weird

Held Celtics under 25 in first quarter last game.

Nobody in the Knicks media is holding fizdae accountable because he is such a “nice guy”
Title: Re: Plop Flop, Fizz Jizz, Oh What A Relief It Is
Post by: Kam on November 03, 2019, 08:54:44 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 03, 2019, 08:51:23 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 03, 2019, 08:18:39 PM
Why the hell did Robinson not start? He’s the only positive plus minus on this team.

Sprained ring finger on his left hand.

Was bothering him throughout. 


Then sit him the whole game.  Why play him if he hurt?
Title: Re: Plop Flop, Fizz Jizz, Oh What A Relief It Is
Post by: Kam on November 03, 2019, 09:00:49 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 03, 2019, 08:51:23 PM
 

You still looking to trade Marcus Morris? 

 

Depends on the return.  But if we don’t resign him it’s an opportunity lost to get compensation.
Title: Early Returns
Post by: lesterluv on November 03, 2019, 09:53:03 PM
My # looking good, Carlos' # looking better.

Worst record in league of course.

Meanwhile, Dallas tied for 6th best record and take their third road win.

1 coach, 1 unicorn, 1 lottopickstar, bunch o bits. Seems like we coulda had that. Think we should have grabbed a coach when we had the chance? Lol, lol, lol..nah, we needed somebody to develop Kornet n Mudiay n Vonleh n could relate so top free agents would want to come here.
Title: FIBA
Post by: carlos123 on November 03, 2019, 10:38:04 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 03, 2019, 07:18:28 PM
Quote from: elephant on November 03, 2019, 07:12:20 PM
It's pathetic how Frank is used on offense.

His role is to make the simple, obvious lateral pass....and nothing else?

That’s years of European coaching ingrained into his FIBA brain.

Yeah, right, just like Luca Doncic.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 04, 2019, 04:22:13 AM
41 mins for Barrett in a blowout loss is dumb.
The kid is going to get worn down.  Or injured.
I'd rather he plays hard and smart than just plays a lot and gets diminishing returns. 

He already has to deal with teams game planning him, trying to force him right and such.  Watching and making adjustments is important too, not just being out on the court a lot.  Breen said that RJB covers the most distance per game of any player in the League.

First 4 games, RJB shot 48% .  Last 3 games 35%, including just 3-13 on 3's.  80 mins in last 2 games.  Teams are adjusting to him, but that's also likely tired legs.

We saw Fizz overuse Knox last year and KK go through some significant struggles.  We don't need a replay.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 04, 2019, 04:28:07 AM
Good game from Morris, but I don't think teams are really overly concerned about him shooting turnaround 18 footers and jacking 3's.  For the most part, iso stuff that doesn't pressure the D.
Knix took a lot of shots when there was no chance of a rebound. 
Morris also fouled a lot.

Morris auditioning for his next contract. 
Re-sign him?  Maybe, but how well does he mesh with Barrett, Mitch, Randle?  Maybe keep Morris and move Randle?

I'd definitely look to see what his trade value is.  He could be a valuable plug-n-play guy for a number of playoff teams.  And we could add a couple other role players -- Taj, Franc, Smith, Ellington -- to a thin team.  We have surplus goods. 

Morris is a good 3rd or 4th option on a good team.  And I like the fact that he's willing to go alpha dog when nobody else shows up.  But not sure I see the long term play or fit.  Morris isn't young, Knix aren't close to a playoff team ... 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 04, 2019, 04:30:15 AM
Anyone want to talk Bobby "Two Point" Portis' consistency?

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 04, 2019, 08:40:38 AM
Sure.  His effort is quite consistent.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 04, 2019, 08:47:27 AM
Auditioning?  Morris?

Yeah, Mo gets reupped here.  I agree.

Clean em out, draft and sign.  Each year we tick up.  Just have to keep the GOOD.

That means a big deal for Robinson down the line - thankfully we dont need to do that this summer.

Knox is looking like a keeper now.

Can Brazdekis be a rotation guy by 20-21?

I think the potential for that is there

Knox, Morris, Iggy, Bobby, Mitch, Julius

RJ, Elfrid (Frank, Dennis)..........    NEED GUARDS  - (draft - could it be LaMelo?))

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on November 04, 2019, 09:18:47 AM
Randle, and  Ntikilina look like trash out there, Randle shoots way to many damn jumpers for a PF, get yo ass in the paint.  Fizz got everybody shooting jumpers.  Pathetic.  It look like freestyle street basketball, Fizz fucked up Trier trying to get him to be a PG who distributes when his name is get buckets ISOZo. Couldn't hurt to see what Iggy got, he looked good in preseason, stop playing Barrett 40 minutes when the game is lost and see whats on the bench.   My GOd I thought the coaching couldn't get worse then the last crop of clowns we had.  Please just fuking hire Mark Jackson and try to save this ratchet season.  Lastly why the fuck do decent Knick tickets still cost close to $200.  TO SEE WHAT?????
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 04, 2019, 09:55:15 AM
I am still bullish on Randle but players like him need the perfect locale for the team to be succesful.

Thus of course if it came down to it - if Julius is producing and we are LOSING, dealing him (and please do not say his contract has no trade value) becomes an option.
Title: Barrett vs Kennard up next
Post by: Kam on November 04, 2019, 11:33:55 AM
Dukie vs. Dukie
Lotto pick vs. Lotto pick
SG vs. SG
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 04, 2019, 11:37:12 AM
Problem is Morris is 5 years older than Randle.

Morris hopes the next contract is his last and last team.
He'll be looking for a 4 year deal.
Taking him from 31-34.   Length and size of that contract will be influenced by stats this season.

Randle is slated for $19M next year.
Morris will try for around the same.
Are you really going to lock up around $40M in two fairly good PF's?  And they don't seem to complement each other.

Don't expect them both back.


Title: Stack picks
Post by: Kam on November 04, 2019, 12:55:54 PM
Since this is another lost year of youth development if we can get a first rounder for Morris we should move him.  The more picks we can stack the better off we will be when opportunity arises.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 04, 2019, 02:00:02 PM
Taking him from 31-34.   Length and size of that contract will be influenced by stats this season.


I have already said - Disagree with the last part - and fine with the first.

Like the election - lets see it play out
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 04, 2019, 02:02:31 PM
And Morris is a SF on this team. 

I don't mind a deal (see my Randle remarks) - but not just for deal's sake.  Would be silly to watch Morris continue his fine play/leadership and then not try to keep him if a wise deal doesn't surface.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 04, 2019, 02:03:49 PM
Don't expect them both back

Again - depends on the offers.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 04, 2019, 02:12:51 PM
Define a wise deal.

Fizz’s seat may not be hot yet, but it’s definitely warming.

A similar result against a depleted Detroit would raise the temperature a few more degrees.
Title: Re: Stack picks
Post by: Jack Straw on November 04, 2019, 07:06:51 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 04, 2019, 12:55:54 PM
Since this is another lost year of youth development if we can get a first rounder for Morris we should move him.  The more picks we can stack the better off we will be when opportunity arises.
only  Nov. 4 and already it's another lost season, close on the heels of a very, very  lost season...my god, it's so dismal...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 04, 2019, 08:01:14 PM
LaMelo dont want no one  picked with him   :)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 04, 2019, 09:53:58 PM
Brandon Ingram has FORTY at Barclays and has missed just 6 shots
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 04, 2019, 09:55:11 PM
Ball has 15 and has played just 20 minutes

Sad.
Title: Re: Stack picks
Post by: Kam on November 04, 2019, 10:21:33 PM
Quote from: Jack Straw on November 04, 2019, 07:06:51 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 04, 2019, 12:55:54 PM
Since this is another lost year of youth development if we can get a first rounder for Morris we should move him.  The more picks we can stack the better off we will be when opportunity arises.
only  Nov. 4 and already it's another lost season, close on the heels of a very, very  lost season...my god, it's so dismal...

It was a lost season before the season started.  Sure there was some hope but most here predicted less than 30 wins.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 05, 2019, 09:45:25 AM
Yep, a development and evaluation year.
Which is why I think it's silly to declare Fizz on the clock.
He seems a pretty good development coach.
Though we are learning his warts.

With that said, if the Knix play ultra-crappy during this weak stretch and have a goddawful  record after 18 games  ...  well, Fizz will be on the hot seat.

Morris is an SF for us, but that makes him more foul prone.

Do the Knix employ a sports psychologist?
I think much of our roster could benefit . . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 05, 2019, 09:54:02 AM
Knicks wont just continue to lose and be OK with it because of the high pick

Yes, Fizdale needs to turn it back around toward 30+ wins.
Title: Tanks Again . . .
Post by: bodiddley on November 05, 2019, 10:33:29 AM
I'd be entirely fine with a post-Dec 15 trade in which we send out any 2 or 3 of Morris, Portis, Taj, Ellington, Jr. Smith, Elf, Franc and took back a 1st rounder or a young solid player (something along the lines of SAC's Bogdanovich). 

Cash in our vets/depth who can help a contender and get back more yute.  Play the yute more than the remaining vets, do a 2nd tankathon, and get another high pick.
I certainly wouldn't mind getting another blue chip kid like Barrett.

Most promising route to turning things around imo.
If our record is junk around Dec 15, I'd be burning up the cell towers . . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 05, 2019, 01:46:43 PM
43 players over 18 PPG

Most surprising -

FOX, HARRELL, NUNN and BARRETT

https://www.espn.com/nba/stats/player/_/table/offensive/sort/avgPoints/dir/desc
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 05, 2019, 01:49:46 PM
36 players at 4.5 + assists

Most surprising

INGRAM, ADEBAYO and  RANDLE

https://www.espn.com/nba/stats/player/_/table/offensive/sort/avgAssists/dir/desc
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 05, 2019, 01:55:30 PM
51 players above 20 PER

https://www.espn.com/nba/stats/player/_/table/general/sort/PER/dir/desc

No Knicks in top 100 (Morris tops at 16.2)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 05, 2019, 02:34:03 PM
Look again.
Mitch #5 at 30.6 PER.

Randle also 8th in the League in Turnovers with 4.1 per game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 05, 2019, 02:59:48 PM
Thanks

Yeah - wondered where he was - thought he may not have qualified
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 05, 2019, 04:07:58 PM
I know people brought this up during the coaching search, but prior to taking the helm here his pinnacle accomplishment was coaxing a 43-39 record out of a team that had prime Conley and Gasol for about 70 games each. For all his qualities Fizz may just not have the knack.
Title: Fizz and Ivey
Post by: Kam on November 05, 2019, 10:17:51 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 05, 2019, 04:07:58 PM
For all his qualities Fizz may just not have the knack.

Fizz and Royal Ivey were hired in part to deliver us KD.
They weren't hired because they were bball savants.

It is fair to ask now how much use either serves anymore.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 06, 2019, 02:08:47 AM
Fizz was labelled a good communicator who got through to young players.  A players coach guys liked playing for/with.
Pretty sure LeBJ & Wade Fizz boosters.

I find it interesting how NBA coaches have these blind spots and dig in on some of their flaws.  Woodson was going to go down switching everything even if he didn't have the personnel in NYK to do it.  Fizz seems to favor changing lineups constantly and he's willing to run players into the ground.  Throwing Knox into fire and heavy minutes worked on month and then mostly was a failure.  And yet, he's back at it with Barrett.

Other examples, D'Ant didn't care a hang about D.  (remember Amare whining that nobody ever taught him such a thing).  And finally only when his HOU job was on the line did he agree to hire a defensive coordinator (Bzdelik), because Dant wasn't going to preach D.

I like when NBA coaches bring in top guys who balance their tendencies.  Kerr seems to do this well.  Doc maybe the king of this, bringing in Thibideau and then Lawrence Frank as assistants.
I liked Vogel taking on Kidd, though it made more sense before they shipped out Bonzo Lol. 

Anyone know what the current Knick assistants are supposed to do? 

And besides the sports psychologist, Knix should bring in a shooting coach to help with FT's (and 3's).  Hopla or whoever.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 06, 2019, 07:57:07 AM
I don't know what they all do but there sure is a shitload of them

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/teams/New-York-Knicks/20/staff-members
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 06, 2019, 08:40:10 AM
With Nurkic still out and Zachollins now out 4 months with a boo-boo shoulder (those things heal slowly), POR could very well be in the market for a PF and some depth.  Don't want to see their season fall apart.

They've got the big ending contract of Whiteside ($27M) to balance any deal.  And they have Simons and Nasir Little they could move.  I'm not much familiar with ether of those pups.

We could offer them  Portis, Ellington and Bullock for Simons + Whiteside.  Cashing in some depth, vets for a yute.

Or Portis, Taj and one of Smith Jr/Franc for Simons + Little + Whiteside.  Basically giving them a starting PF and a replacement for the  backup PG & C that they'd be feeding us.

Actually I have no idea on these two guys.  But they are 20 & 19 respectively.  And POR is high on Simons.

Just an example of the type of yute play we could make in exchange for our vets.

If they want Morris instead of Portis, then ask for Simons, Little and a future #1.  Morris would fit in nicely for them.
No idea if they like Portis.


Title: Old SCHOOL
Post by: chipstern on November 06, 2019, 11:33:41 AM
Justin Kubatko: The @celtics Gordon Hayward shot 16-16 on 2-pointers tonight. It’s the most 2-pointers made in a game without a miss since Wilt Chamberlain also went 16-16 on Mar. 19, 1967. – via Twitter jkubatko

Postscript: Utah drafted Hayward with the #1 they picked up from Phoenix, the last earthly asset the Knicks gave up to get that Stephon Marbury fellow.

Moral Of The Story: Retain your draft picks. 
Title: Umm
Post by: Kam on November 06, 2019, 12:54:38 PM
Moral of the story part 2: Re-sign your draft picks and hope he doesn't leave to play for his college coach leaving you with nothing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 06, 2019, 03:48:10 PM
Knicks likely dont take Heyward anyway

The Whiteside scenario has some teeth but for now he helps them.  Not sure theyd give up Simons or Little either - so maybe picks.....

Revisit later and all will be more clear
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 06, 2019, 03:52:37 PM
Lesson on Gordon may be more this -

don't immediately dismiss the "non-athlete"

Draft analysis had Gord a 6 in quickness and defense and a 7 in athleticism.  Also a 7 in "NBA ready"

So why did this heady scorer achieve his NBA goals while others do not?

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/gordon-hayward/



NBA Comparison: Luke Jackson/Mike Dunleavy Jr.

yep
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 06, 2019, 07:36:10 PM
Little surprised Svi Mykailuk isnt getting a bigger look in DET. 

But he's still 22 - has time

46/55/- shooting, up from 33/33/60 a year ago
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 06, 2019, 08:28:27 PM
Mitch get hurt again?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 06, 2019, 08:38:44 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 06, 2019, 08:28:27 PM
Mitch get hurt again?

Concussion.
Title: two straight blowouts
Post by: Kam on November 06, 2019, 09:14:30 PM
Fizz has no answers

We had three days between games to rest/prepare/game plan

It's getting UGLY now

At least there was some competitive fire the first few games.

Cool hand frank putting up  7 shots in 40 minutes is a criminal waste.

It's like having a first baseman who can't hit.

7 ATTEMPTS!  He would have more assists if he could/would break down the defense.  But he is happy handing the ball off at halfcourt.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 06, 2019, 09:33:04 PM
Were gonna get our ass handed to us while Mitch is in concussion protocol.

One of the 3:43 boys, Trier, Dot, and Iggy, should get Ellington’s minutes. Personally I’d go with Dot if he’s good, otherwise Just Zo Trier.

It’s good to see Taj waking up. The forwards need his leadership.

Drummond has come along. Damn. He’s a force.

Markieff wins this round of his recurring conflict with Mitch.

Detroit has the brother with the cooler head unfortunately.
Title: Phony Phizz
Post by: carlos123 on November 06, 2019, 09:51:23 PM
WHAT TO DO NOW?

(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/HAokHxFPLiSPyy5rmvoVh8H2h28=/0x0:3746x2283/1200x800/filters:focal(1697x603:2295x1201)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/65483521/usa_today_12466416.0.jpg)

THEY JUST DON'T EXECUTE THE PLAY I CALLED!
Title: Dallas game
Post by: Kam on November 06, 2019, 10:25:43 PM
No Mitchell, No DSJ, KP revenge game, THjr revenge game....

Could be another blowout L

How many big blows can Fizz sustain and keep the gig?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 06, 2019, 10:33:03 PM
Unleash the IG!
Title: Re: two straight blowouts
Post by: lesterluv on November 06, 2019, 11:03:40 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 06, 2019, 09:14:30 PM


Cool hand frank putting up  7 shots in 40 minutes is a criminal waste.

It's like having a first baseman who can't hit.

7 ATTEMPTS!  He would have more assists if he could/would break down the defense.  But he is happy handing the ball off at halfcourt.

lol, lol, Frank was fine. Very fine. He can hit. Not the problem at all. Looking right nice in his 27th career start. His defensive first half was absolutely gorgeous. Pistons would have scored 90 at the half without him. Would surely have loved Fiz to go to Dotson rather than Ellington as guard sub tonight, but not gonna bust on the whale this eve. Some woeful defense and stupidity from our frontcourt. Horrible stuff. Somebody out there disgracing Bernard's number...


**** Why the F** isn't Bernard's number retired????????


Actually, I am gonna bust on whale a little, should of at least tried going small with the Dotster, f'ing 9 for 9 from Snell, Pistons looking really well coached, wasn't Casey another guy who was available when we tapped the Fiz, can't remember now, doesn't matter really, Dolan would still own us.


The flagrant wasn't what bothered me on the 6-point play, rather that Randle was standing 12 feet away with his hands down doing absolutely nothing for anybody before the ball got passed out to Morris who had already been knocking them down. That kinda stuff...really not very promising when you're trying to win your second game.

**OK...I would really get excited for Joerger right about now, even with these clowns
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 06, 2019, 11:06:57 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 06, 2019, 09:33:04 PM


One of the 3:43 boys, Trier, Dot, and Iggy, should get Ellington’s minutes. Personally I’d go with Dot if he’s good, otherwise Just Zo Trier.

Yep
Title: Re: Dallas game
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 06, 2019, 11:20:56 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 06, 2019, 10:25:43 PM
No Mitchell, No DSJ, KP revenge game, THjr revenge game....

Could be another blowout L

How many big blows can Fizz sustain and keep the gig?

KP 21-58 last 4 games
Title: urp
Post by: lesterluv on November 06, 2019, 11:30:50 PM
Not so, so bad for what's still a stretch of his first 7 games of NBA action after a little bitty vacation.

4-6 from three the game before with SIX blocks and nine boards.

Dallas moves to 5-2 and tied for second in the West.

It's either the players or the coaching. I'd love to have either. Preferably both.

Next.

Title: Silver linings
Post by: Kam on November 07, 2019, 12:39:46 AM
Maybe we win the lottery and draft Cole Anthony.  Son of Greg Anthony.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 07, 2019, 02:54:17 AM
Wonder if that game set a record for most PG's out.
DET missing RegJax, Rose, and TimFraziergoesdown;
Knix with Jr. Smith and Elf out.
Looks like Franc did all right.  And Bruce Brown has done well filling in for DET.

Saw a choppy replay so not that easy to evaluate or assess.
Defense looked poor.
Lotta turnovers and fouls.
Not much coherence.

Taj looked pretty good.  Knox allright.
Randle not good on D, and his O is on and off.
Morris plays hard, could play a little smarter ...
Bobby "3-Pt, 2 Foul" Portis managed to get a FT.

Barrett and Mitch the only keepers we got.
Knox a maybe.
If we continue to lose during this weak schedule, Knix front office might have to start rethinking things.  Only problem is they likely don't want to go to another plan -- tank again, trade vets for picks and yute -- and will stay the course with our mismatched vets.
Hopefully they'll be willing to say we loaded the roster in order to make moves -- we knew that 4 PF vets was a silly idea, etc.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 07, 2019, 03:08:19 AM
Most mid-season trades go down around the deadline.
But POR with its injuries, has a lot of incentive to make an early deal soon after Dec 15. 

Knix have a lot to offer them.
I don't think we especially want Whiteside, he's mostly salary ballast.
We could give them Morris/Portis so they'd have a starting PF.
Ellington/Trier so they'd have a bench sniper.
Smith/Franc so they have a backup PG.
Taj/Portis so they have a C.
Not all of that obviously, but some combination of 2 or 3 players.

I don't think we do any deal with them without getting Simons.
It'd be the cost of saving their season, losing a promising yute several years away.  I'm not familiar with him at all.

I'd also like to hold Morris and Smith out for a later deal.  But I'd assume POR would want Morris more than Portis.  Big consistency difference there.

I might offering Portis, Ellington/Taj and maybe throwing in Franc for Whiteside + Simons.  If we think Simons is that appealing.

If they want Morris:
Morris + Taj/Ellington + Franc/Smith Jr = Whiteside, Simons, 1st rounder.

If not, there will be others trading partners.
But looks like no reason to keep this deep but incoherent Knick team together.  Trades and tank, yute and high picks.  That's where Bo's at.
Fizz has already proven a good D & T coach (Development & Tanking).
Just keep an eye out for an upgrade.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 07, 2019, 03:10:49 AM
DET had 37 Assists.
5 guys with 5 or more assists.
Nice job.
Says something about the Knick D as well ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 07, 2019, 04:23:38 AM
Randle and Portis are both playing unquestionably bad D.

If Fizz decides he’s had enough at some point, I’m fine with turning the clipboard over to Mike Miller.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on November 07, 2019, 09:22:19 AM
Me and my guys were talking about the Knicks body language.  They all look confused, it looks like we are winging it out there.  Im not sure if they are not listening to Fizz but the group does not look well coached.  We shouldn't have a blowout sale yet. CHANGE THE COACH, get a proven coach who is not stuck in his ways.  Get Mark Jackson now, he is really good with connecting with the players, He may get Frenchie playing well before we trade him and he become the Walt Frazier on the Spurs.  Nobody on our squad looks well coached.  Fire Fizdale now........For the sake of Humanity FIRE FIZDALE...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 07, 2019, 09:45:45 AM
Boo!

We have a mismatched roster, mostly new faces and poor G play.
What do you expect?
Before the last two losses we were pretty competitive every game (well just the 1st half v BOS).

My two Fizz complaints: running RJB into the ground for no reason (Hey, Wilt once averaged over 48 mpg ...) & not letting Franc spread his wings.  We have turnovers all over anyway, might as let Franc make some while trying to run the team.  Give Franc big minutes and let him play PG and see how he does.  He did all right with France.  Hell, try to up his trade valuie if nothing else.
Title: Wadja Expect? Exactly This.
Post by: lesterluv on November 07, 2019, 10:26:30 AM
 lol, lol, lol...there are so many teams with mismatched rosters, tons of new faces, too many young players, too many old players, new coaches, new systems poor this play or that play, injuries out the wazoo, tough schedules, witches' curses, leaky plumbing..only one is 1 and 7 worst in the league   #GoKnicks

*** Carlos' # looking like a positive LOCK

*** New worst record ever in sight?..Fiz want to own that shiz ALL BY HIZSELF?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 07, 2019, 01:50:52 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 07, 2019, 03:10:49 AM
DET had 37 Assists.
5 guys with 5 or more assists.
Nice job.
Says something about the Knick D as well ...

As mentioned earlier, they are not enabling Frank to blanket cover the opposing PG - disallowing their offense to get into their patterns.

We boost Frank's defensive prowess but settle pretty much for what he gives us in OFF BALL D and shot challenging - not what he can do to snuff out the beginning offense of an opponent with a full 94 feet.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 07, 2019, 01:54:41 PM
Quote from: jaqdavisone on November 07, 2019, 09:22:19 AM
Me and my guys were talking about the Knicks body language.  They all look confused, it looks like we are winging it out there.  Im not sure if they are not listening to Fizz but the group does not look well coached.  We shouldn't have a blowout sale yet. CHANGE THE COACH, get a proven coach who is not stuck in his ways.  Get Mark Jackson now, he is really good with connecting with the players, He may get Frenchie playing well before we trade him and he become the Walt Frazier on the Spurs.  Nobody on our squad looks well coached.  Fire Fizdale now........For the sake of Humanity FIRE FIZDALE...

Tough to bring in a new coach, no matter how experienced - and not give him a training camp to install stuff.

Fac's Mike Miller idea (or Jud Beuschler, who may have the IT factor) has more teeth.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 07, 2019, 02:43:33 PM
Miller has actually made players better on the GLeague level and won at a good clip with much higher roster churn than we see at the top level. Has Judd ever held the top seat?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jerrya on November 07, 2019, 04:38:50 PM
Yes...It looks like Fiz is in over his head.  Playing worse than last year. Question is, why did he get an extension...Trend line was going down last year.
Title: KP
Post by: Kam on November 07, 2019, 04:43:41 PM
19pt
8reb
2ast
2.3blk
16PER


Not the same player as before.
And he usually starts the season strong and wears down so we will see.


Much like Odell Beckham they were traded before seeing their potential evaporate.
ONLY Dallas just committed a .155 billion to KP
Title: Giannis stat fun
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 07, 2019, 05:38:16 PM
First player in history to go 200-100-50 over first 8 games of a season
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 07, 2019, 10:15:05 PM
Punk smart in another fight

Monk, Bridges, Biyombo look good

Rozier?  Nyet.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on November 07, 2019, 11:08:03 PM
heh

under-sized Celts buzz the Hornets with stifling D

Gordo with back-to-back beauties

C's looking good, playing smart hoops, and they're fun to watch
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 08, 2019, 02:10:45 AM
Smart can play on my team any time.

Silly to dismiss KZ as diminished.
He just missed a year and a half.
Needs to fully trust his repaired knee.
Could take a little while.
Meanwhile he's not far off of 20 & 10 & 2 blocks.

I wanted to predict that KZ would be a beast and make us look foolish.
But it takes time to get the rust off and get back into the swing and trust your body.  So I mentioned before the season that you can't really judge KZ's return until after the calendar flips to 2020.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 08, 2019, 02:22:57 AM
Randle.  Poor defender.  Erratic offender.
The only thing intriguing to me was that he shot 3's fairly well last year.  But he's at 17% for us.  And just 60% FT.
Plus one the league leaders in turnovers.
Sure he's being asked to do too much.
But I've always thought he's a hard player to build around.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 08, 2019, 03:19:01 AM
My first December call is to OKC.

Marcus Morris & Dennis Smith Jr. or Elfrid Payton (both work & we should grab a pick for letting them take the one they prefer) for Dennis Schroeder & Mike Muscala

It puts us on the hook for Schroeder, but he can play and ups his team’s pace with his speed and quickness. It also gets us a legit backup center who can protect the rim and spread the floor.

Morris gives them another playoff professional to help get the most out of Paul this year. He’s also Gallo insurance in case of trade or injury. They prefer Noel to Muscala & get a guard to take some of Scroeder’s load if not match his productivity.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 08, 2019, 04:33:53 AM
Bo no like.

Shroeder a poor defender and streaky kind of scoring PG.
Bets as a backup.
I'd rather try to develop Smith Jr into a Shroeder.

OKC doesn't really need Morris as they're not going anywhere.
I don't like the return and think you have us giving way too much.

SHroeder and Muscala are not what we need.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 08, 2019, 04:55:44 AM
They’re not my first second or third choice if I had a league wide draft. It takes 17 million off their books and puts it on our books, for which we’d extract one of the many tasty draft considerations the Thunder acquired in dumping Rusty & PG. it’s a use space to gain assets sort of move that should have minimal long term effect on our roster.

There may be better plays, but none really come to mind.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 08, 2019, 10:10:23 AM
Okay, so just trying to get a pick and a semi-useful player.
They have CP3 at $40M's this year and two more.   So they need to try to be competitive.  And you do save them Schroeder's $15M next year.

We'd be giving them a very nice player with an ending deal, and taking on Schroeder's $15M next year for a 1st rounder.
It's an idea.  I hope we could do better.
But an extra pick would be nice.

Is next year's draft deep?
This one was.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 08, 2019, 10:27:44 AM
Julius
RJ
Frank
DSJ
K-knox
Ignas
Mitch
(Bobby)

There are your seven + for next year.  Options on others

Now, do you want to add cap room by dealing Randle......

Hypothetical matchup of salaries with Galinari, for instance.

Or do we envision Julius and Marcus together with an IMPROVED Knox/Barret/Robinson/Frank/DSJ, plus what we can add with spare cash for 2020-21?

The way we are using Gibson I can agree that he wont be here next year (and could be dealt mid through this season)

Portis and his 15 mil could go either way
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 08, 2019, 10:33:44 AM
LEAD

DOG

FROM

THE DRAFT

- this is what we seek

- the Zion draft - where we grabbed our motor - becomes the Anthony/Wiseman/Mannion/Ball/Hayes endeavor.  Top 7-8 should get us one of those guys.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 08, 2019, 10:59:30 AM
CARMELO gives rousing pregame speech at Cuse ahead of their tilt with defending national champs

Orange proceed to go out and get nineteen in the first half - and as if that werent good enough - just FIFTEEN in the second

48-34 UVA
Title: You Are What Your Record Says You Are
Post by: chipstern on November 08, 2019, 12:38:22 PM
No denying it. 

Still, was working during Detroit game, and only made it on DVR to the point in the third when the Knicks' Wile E. Coyote meltdown began with a very jive flagrant call on Randle. 

Losing Mitchell didn't help, but found a lot of positives in the first half, such as Frank's defense, pace, tempo and aggression, creating offensive looks for himself, and shooting with confidence and purpose, since he ain't looking over his shoulder. 

Good competitive play (mostly on offense, some D) from Julius, RJ, MM and Knox.  Again, Frank set an aggressive tone on D.  However, in trad Knicks style, Morris 1A outplayed Morris 1B, we allowed Snell to get off to a career game, and had no answer for Drummond. 

In other news, Serial Douche Marc Berman on KP's falling out, has the audacity to reference Charlie Rosen vis a vis the Knicks running Carmelo out of town, as having a palpable effect on Porzingis.  Seeing as how ventriloquist Phool Jackoff's water carrier Rosen was complicit in advancing negative narratives on Melo in the media, this really rubbed me the wrong way. 

PS: Fizz's obsession with Ellington, and the utter absence of minutes for Dotson (superior defender) and Trier (more versatile scoring threat) continues to baffle me.  Not that Ellington shouldn't get minutes, but DD and AT are part of our purported youth development posture, and have demonstrated positive attributes and growth when given real minutes.  I suspect that with a healthy Bullock, they will be further relegated to the pine. 

PPS: Wonder what happens to Frank's minutes and confidence, and some semblance of a sensible rotation when Peyton and Smith come back.  Let alone Kadeem Allen, who certainly picked the wrong damn time to be nailed to the pine with an injury.  The penetrating and scoring skills he demonstrate last season would sure be coming in handy about now. 
Title: If it weren't for bad luck
Post by: Kam on November 08, 2019, 12:47:12 PM
We wouldn't have no luck at all
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 08, 2019, 12:53:26 PM
Did something new & terrible happen?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jerrya on November 08, 2019, 02:05:53 PM
I never thought they would look and be this  bad.  It's all on Fitz...it's called the Peter Principle. At this point, I'd take any coach other than Fitz so I don't have to look at his pathetic frowns when something goes wrong.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 08, 2019, 02:19:04 PM
With Mitch out, Knicks should - but won't say to Gibson - "go get em - show us what you got with the first five" - 30 minutes, with Bobby getting 18 at C and 8-10 at PF (Ignas the rest after Julius 30-34)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 08, 2019, 02:43:19 PM
What we will see instead is too much Randle at the 5 - maybe even some RJ

No roles, baby - and dont ask why
Title: Would you rather
Post by: Kam on November 08, 2019, 02:49:01 PM
Beat the Mavericks, or see Fizdale direct ANOTHER BLOWOUT L?

The win helps temporarily.
The loss further improves lottery odds and drives another nail in Fizz' coaching coffin.

Tough one.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 08, 2019, 03:06:23 PM
Please.

Win.

Stop the embarrassment.
Title: Well
Post by: Kam on November 08, 2019, 04:48:05 PM
We probably lose by 15+
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 08, 2019, 06:17:02 PM
Quote
Doncic is averaging 26.7 points, 9.9 rebounds, 9.1 assists,

Who guards Don Cic?  Morris and RJB I suppose.

Quote
Porzingis is averaging 19 points, 8.1 rebounds and 2.3 blocks.
"I have to get the feel back," Porzingis said. "The spots that I'm getting to get my shots are not maybe the usual spots that I was getting used to when I played in New York.
"We're 5-2. I haven't played well once."


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 08, 2019, 06:18:23 PM
Quote
Doncic has great chemistry with Powell and Kleber. His partnership with Kristaps Porzingis is a work in progress. Opponents have outscored the Mavericks by 4.5 points per 100 possessions with both stars on the floor. Meanwhile, the Mavs are plus-28 in the 67 minutes Doncic has played without Porzingis -- and a monster plus-25 in 44 minutes with both out.

Porzingis spends a lot time spotting up around the Doncic/Powell and Doncic/Kleber two-man games; Doncic and Porzingis have partnered for only about 19 pick-and-rolls per 100 possessions, compared to 40 for Powell and 31 for Kleber.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 08, 2019, 06:28:52 PM
Who guards Don Cic?  Morris and RJB I suppose.


Why the fuck not Nillie?

Head up - take him off his game.

ANSWER THIS QUESTION, especially iof you have been touting this guy's prowess all along.

Dammit.
Title: Revenge served!
Post by: Kam on November 08, 2019, 11:03:51 PM
Fuck yeah! 

Frankie says relax!
Title: 14pts 6reb 4ast 4stl 3blk
Post by: Kam on November 08, 2019, 11:27:41 PM
Frankie the only player in the NBA to post that statline or better this year.

Johnathan Isaac had a 13/10/5/4/6 game a couple days ago.  Just missing the 5x5.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 08, 2019, 11:40:26 PM
I've said before that Franc, like many players, does better with longer minutes.
Quite the stat stuffing.
Only 12 Turns.
And 14 O-boards.  Nice.

Doncic is the Slovenian Bird.
Guy is uncanny.

28 / 9 / 5 blocks not shabby from KZ.|
Wait til he gets in rhythm and gets in sync with Donkey.

RJB 1-6 FT?
I could bounce the ball in more than that.
Hell, I can bounce the ball in from halfcourt more than that.  (True)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 09, 2019, 12:05:11 AM
Only in kiid's imagination has anyone claimed Franc is a lockdown defender.
He's a good solid defender at a young age.  Puts in good effort.
It's good to have some defenders out there.
And he should get better with more court time and experience.
He's not Sydney Moncrieff  (at least not yet . . . )
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 09, 2019, 12:09:51 AM
Two young guys who aren't playing on deep teams:
Juancho for DEN and DJ Wilson for MIL.
I'd take DJ Willie instead of Booby Porter.
Two guys worth monitoring.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 09, 2019, 12:19:07 AM
Who gets Doncic to rush a step back from 35 ft with the game on the line? Someone who spent 36 minutes carving an entresol inside that Slovenian skull.

Taj is essential. 20-25 mins a night.

I also vote more time for Dot.

I still believe the free throw thing is fixable.

We get the Mavs at the Garden Thursday. We’ll see which staff makes better adjustments...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 09, 2019, 12:36:57 AM
Things is, Donk makes crazy stuff like that.

Nets Trivia:

Lillard scored 60, tying the most ever by a NET opponent.
Whose record did he tie? (ie who had 60 v. the Nets)?

Btw, Purvis Short was 2nd with a 59er.
Title: 30
Post by: Kam on November 09, 2019, 12:57:04 AM
Bernard King
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Pharoah on November 09, 2019, 01:03:41 AM
 (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EI6BvGLW4AUgSt8?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 09, 2019, 01:12:37 AM
Yeah, Bernard dropped 60 on the Netizens.

You somewhat redeem yourself from the 15 Pt loss prediction ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 09, 2019, 02:16:06 AM
Taj, Morris, and Frank have the key to everything this team needs to grow into. They need to be together on the floor for our key stretches with whoever is hot or has a punishable advantage.

Our three interchangeable bigs need to be Mitch, Taj, and Randle. Both Mitch and Julius need to learn to use their asses and voices to organize the court the way Taj does. Bobby is a step behind Mitch and Randle but is replacement level at least and can fill minutes and get stats.

Morris is bringing Knox and Iggy along. Knox is encouraging with his progress.

Barrett is real. How consistent he’ll be and what he’ll add over time remain to be seen. The free throw thing is a little ridiculous already. If Dot is getting back up to speed, which it looks like he is, his lunch pail, smart, hard nosed play makes him both a good benchmark and tandem for RJ. Ellington has a ton of experience, but isn’t as talented as the other two.

Frank sees the game right. We need to get everyone on our team in tune with what Frank is up to while ensuring no one on the opposing team has any idea what that is.

The other guards, Trier, DSJ, and Payton will need to fall into line. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 09, 2019, 02:39:52 AM
Quote from: Pharoah on November 09, 2019, 01:03:41 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EI6BvGLW4AUgSt8?format=jpg&name=small)

lol.

• Frank looking better and better with every extended run — as I fully expected. No doubt he is a starting point guard on a winning team.  Sank his threes and made some tremendous defensive plays in his 28th career start. Stuff that caused turnovers or missed shots and won't tally as steals or blocks though he got those too. Just gonna be a winning player. Even got a few picks set for him rather than just Fiz's patented pass around the perimeter. If he continues to start — which may actually happen against all odds despite his continent of passport and reluctance to throw up 20 shitshots a game —— cause Fiz is gonna be desperate to defend his job, I may have to amp up to a full [Carlos' # + 6].

• Porzingis just destroyed his many PF replacements until his last check in after which he sucked. That trade, and the failed management that led up to the demand for it, is a managerial travesty that in any rational world would be punished by execution.

• I didn't rag on FizWhale much last game cause I thought he didn't do a terrible job, his players did. And he did a better one tonight — coming in with Trier/Dot on cue — though the failure to come back with Dot at end of third allowing the lead to completely evaporate with a laughably inept defensive lineup out there, his major sin, along with going with Barrett at the end, whose free throws

• are yes, ridiculous, a major problem, and will probably continue to be. Should have gone Trier/Dot offense/defense as much as possible in crunch.

• Doncic really is amazing, but he takes a pretty large # of stupid ass shots, including that last long one



***** Tim Hardaway is still....Tim Hardaway, who signed his a$$ for how long for how much? Does that person still have a job?

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 09, 2019, 02:48:37 AM
I think Luca thought it was going to be his last chance to shed Frank.

I’m not convinced there’s much benefit to subbing Dot out on offense. He does all the things we need a guard to do. He just needs to get in rhythm.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 09, 2019, 02:51:35 AM
I agree with you actually on that. But considering that Fiz wouldn't put him back in the third because (I suppose) of that offensive rust, I figure half of the end game is the best we could have expected from coach.

Barrett really shouldn't have been out there. He was getting shredded on defense and it took all of a split second for Carlisle to get him fouled and to the line. Carlisle is a really good coach. We were really lucky to get out of there with a win what with that foul shooting fiasco. Thank god for a couple really good brain farts from the Mav's super duper euro duo.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 09, 2019, 08:17:40 AM
Good to see some post ... after the best game of the season.
And a breakout game from Frenchie.
That's the kind of thing he is capable of.
Fizz needs to try to build on that.

We don't need Franc to be a dominant ballhandler.
RJB and Randle can help with that.

I'd like to see Franc get 30 mins a night and have Jr. Smith gobble up the backup minutes.  We need to develop our young PG's.
If Franc hits a major slump, then flip them for a few weeks.

Taj is a good player and a steadying force.
So sometimes injuries (Smith & Mitch) can benefit the team by providing ops elsewhere.  (and yeah, Smith is out for a variety of personal, physical, mental reasons).

RJB is going to have to get those FT's down.
As guys will foul him more on drives and make him earn his points, it makes him hard to play in tight games, and just takes a psychological/confidence toll after a while.  Seems like a lot of his FT's are too strong and clank the back iron.  But I haven't seen more than quarters and halves, so haven't witnessed the full horror.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 09, 2019, 11:13:17 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on November 09, 2019, 02:39:52 AM


• Porzingis just destroyed his many PF replacements until his last check in after which he sucked. That trade, and the failed management that led up to the demand for it, is a managerial travesty that in any rational world would be punished by execution.



KP has a blood condition.  His anemia causes him to fade. In games and seasons.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 09, 2019, 11:54:25 AM
Depends on the degree of anemia.
Many can just take iron supplements and be fine.
But high-level athletics can be trickier.
Also, depends on the cause of the anemia.
Is it a congenital condition, related to something else, mostly present when growing too rapidly or more permanent genetic disorder.

But at this point in the season, it could just be conditioning.
he hasn't gone hard for long.  I saw a pre-season game where KZ was clearly going half-speed.

Anyway, KZ is playing pretty well even though he hasn't rounded into form yet, or meshed with Donc yet.  Bodes well for DAL
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 09, 2019, 11:56:56 AM
Btw, Lillard hit 60 by jacking a buzzer beating 3 down 7.
I guess that kind of stat hunting is pretty common by now, and no doubt the bench was encouraging him. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 09, 2019, 01:04:33 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 09, 2019, 11:54:25 AM


But at this point in the season, it could just be conditioning.
he hasn't gone hard for long.  I saw a pre-season game where KZ was clearly going half-speed.

Anyway, KZ is playing pretty well even though he hasn't rounded into form yet, or meshed with Donc yet.  Bodes well for DAL

By the time he rounds into form he will complain of tiredness:

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/21960316/new-york-knicks-star-kristaps-porzingis-says-tired-playing-back-back
 (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/21960316/new-york-knicks-star-kristaps-porzingis-says-tired-playing-back-back)


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 09, 2019, 01:08:28 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 09, 2019, 12:09:51 AM
Two young guys who aren't playing on deep teams:
Juancho for DEN and DJ Wilson for MIL.
I'd take DJ Willie instead of Booby Porter.
Two guys worth monitoring.

You're a fucking idiot


Nice win last night

Still say Frank switches off too much - but he's an entertaining 2-way player when he makes shots and limits his turnovers.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 09, 2019, 01:09:20 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 09, 2019, 11:56:56 AM
Btw, Lillard hit 60 by jacking a buzzer beating 3 down 7.
I guess that kind of stat hunting is pretty common by now, and no doubt the bench was encouraging him.

Should he have taken a 2?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 09, 2019, 01:13:08 PM
Things is, Donk makes crazy stuff like that.


Really?  You're calling him that?

heh

Stupid shot.  Not surprised you defended it.  Stupid last possession as well.

Bird comparisons can wait - as in forever.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 09, 2019, 01:29:43 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 09, 2019, 01:08:28 PM

Still say Frank switches off too much - but he's an entertaining 2-way player when he makes shots and limits his turnovers.

Trouble is, we don't know what Fiz is asking him to do. Same on O. When he rote gives it up in a second on the perimeter and heads out to the corner, sure looks like he is executing a plan. Last night was best yet, whether that's Frank conquering his nerves or Fiz changing the marching orders the result is the same..improvement.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 09, 2019, 01:36:58 PM
Portis needs to change his focus or he'll remain a tease.

In the 1Q last game, Portis played hard and Wally was noting how Portis was "fully immersed" in the game and such.  With the implication that he often isn't.  Didn't do much beyond the 1Q either.  But it was a damn good quarter.

Otherwise, my scouting has favored players such as Brogdon, Oubre (having a solid season), Jaylen.  Kiid likes guys such as Rivers, Fredette, Tim Jr.  Some might notice a difference . . .
Title: KP shit his NY bed
Post by: Kam on November 09, 2019, 02:06:40 PM
https://nypost.com/2019/11/08/inside-toxic-kristaps-porzingis-knicks-marriage-that-made-trade-inevitable/ (https://nypost.com/2019/11/08/inside-toxic-kristaps-porzingis-knicks-marriage-that-made-trade-inevitable/)


Quote
On occasion at the Tarrytown practice headquarters, Porzingis started parking his car haphazardly in front of the players’ entrance instead of in the assigned parking spot that each player receives.

Quote
And after then-coach Jeff Hornacek told him during a practice to show more toughness on defense, Porzingis blurted back, “F–k you.’’
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 09, 2019, 02:10:24 PM
The Celtics offered a trove of assets, including Jaylen Brown, in a scenario under which the Knicks could move up and select future Bulls forward Lauri Markkanen, but again Jackson held back. Some in the league believe Jackson didn’t make the trade on orders from owner James Dolan.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 09, 2019, 02:19:35 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 09, 2019, 08:17:40 AM

We don't need Franc to be a dominant ballhandler.
RJB and Randle can help with that.


Frank played well last night. His defense was ferocious. But we do have a problem handling the ball. I realize that two of our PG are out, but I hold my breath every time Randall gets the rock. And he's not the only big of ours who loves to dribble. Hell, sometimes Barrett is our best dribbler on the floor...and that's not going to cut it.

Anyhow, the question with Frank is how he can be consistently strong on both end. The consensus here is about playing time. But you've also pointed out some odd quirks of his game — for instance, his habit of pulling up and making a generic pass just a step or two over the half court line — which speaks to some issue with confidence and coaching. That needs fixing.
Title: Franks confidence
Post by: Kam on November 09, 2019, 02:45:51 PM
When his shot is falling early in the game you know he will have a good game.  He took 12 shots last night.
If he misses his first couple shots, he probably ends up with no more than 7 attempts.  This is what he needs to fight.  Stop thinking of yourself as a non-offender just because you missed your first jumper.

Look at a guy like THjr.   Frank is on one end of the spectrum and THjr is all the way on the other end with no conscience.  Some of that irrational confidence is what Frank needs.  Just not too much.
Title: Re: KP shit his NY bed
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 09, 2019, 07:58:39 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 09, 2019, 02:06:40 PM
https://nypost.com/2019/11/08/inside-toxic-kristaps-porzingis-knicks-marriage-that-made-trade-inevitable/ (https://nypost.com/2019/11/08/inside-toxic-kristaps-porzingis-knicks-marriage-that-made-trade-inevitable/)


Quote
On occasion at the Tarrytown practice headquarters, Porzingis started parking his car haphazardly in front of the players’ entrance instead of in the assigned parking spot that each player receives.

Quote
And after then-coach Jeff Hornacek told him during a practice to show more toughness on defense, Porzingis blurted back, “F–k you.’’

Wow - so around the time I was giving my blessing to trade KP, the rest of the forum was adamant about keeping him - and now we know Jaylen Brown and Lauri Markaanen could have been Knicks

heh - well, we almost got that.
Title: Re: Franks confidence
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 09, 2019, 08:00:10 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 09, 2019, 02:45:51 PM
When his shot is falling early in the game you know he will have a good game.  He took 12 shots last night.
If he misses his first couple shots, he probably ends up with no more than 7 attempts.  This is what he needs to fight.  Stop thinking of yourself as a non-offender just because you missed your first jumper.

Look at a guy like THjr.   Frank is on one end of the spectrum and THjr is all the way on the other end with no conscience.  Some of that irrational confidence is what Frank needs.  Just not too much.

1-7 on 2 pointers.  The contested shot still not his friend whatsoever
Title: Re: KP shit his NY bed
Post by: Kam on November 09, 2019, 08:09:42 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 09, 2019, 07:58:39 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 09, 2019, 02:06:40 PM
https://nypost.com/2019/11/08/inside-toxic-kristaps-porzingis-knicks-marriage-that-made-trade-inevitable/ (https://nypost.com/2019/11/08/inside-toxic-kristaps-porzingis-knicks-marriage-that-made-trade-inevitable/)


Quote
On occasion at the Tarrytown practice headquarters, Porzingis started parking his car haphazardly in front of the players’ entrance instead of in the assigned parking spot that each player receives.

Quote
And after then-coach Jeff Hornacek told him during a practice to show more toughness on defense, Porzingis blurted back, “F–k you.’’

Wow - so around the time I was giving my blessing to trade KP, the rest of the forum was adamant about keeping him - and now we know Jaylen Brown and Lauri Markaanen could have been Knicks

heh - well, we almost got that.

KP was feeling all sorts of entitlement - and only in year 2 to boot.   The parking space is not a big deal to me.  The "Fuck you" to the coach is a big deal to me.  That's surprising.
Title: Re: Franks confidence
Post by: Kam on November 09, 2019, 08:11:51 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 09, 2019, 08:00:10 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 09, 2019, 02:45:51 PM
When his shot is falling early in the game you know he will have a good game.  He took 12 shots last night.
If he misses his first couple shots, he probably ends up with no more than 7 attempts.  This is what he needs to fight.  Stop thinking of yourself as a non-offender just because you missed your first jumper.

Look at a guy like THjr.   Frank is on one end of the spectrum and THjr is all the way on the other end with no conscience.  Some of that irrational confidence is what Frank needs.  Just not too much.

1-7 on 2 pointers.  The contested shot still not his friend whatsoever


There's a lot of talk today that Frank has seized the job.  Marc Berman even referenced Lou Gehrig replacing Wally Pipp akin to what Frank has done!  Premature much?  One good game and everyone is going gaga.

I'm happy he had a good game.

I don't think the light bulb has switched on yet.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 09, 2019, 08:27:51 PM
Anyway, KZ is playing pretty well even though he hasn't rounded into form yet, or meshed with Donc yet.  Bodes well for DAL


Played all 8 games.  That's something (though missing tonight's tilt)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 09, 2019, 09:06:22 PM
LeBron on the wrong side of yet another issue:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2861978-lebron-james-comments-on-ohio-states-chase-young-being-suspended-by-ncaa?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_campaign=editorial&utm_medium=referral
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on November 09, 2019, 09:12:28 PM
Gordo must been born under a bad sign

broke his hand in San Antone

out around 6 weeks

on the other hand the Celts looked great and destroyed the Spurs

they're starting to look legit very good

TimeLord might become a crowd-shocking, shot-blocking rim rocking, paint-stalking, Stephen Hawking, I'm serious and not trash-talking real NBA defensive wiz.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 09, 2019, 10:28:45 PM
Both Williamses look good for the Cs.

I wonder how long it will be till Mitch gets cleared to play. The down time helps his ankle as well.

The Cavs will pose a very different challenge.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 09, 2019, 10:52:55 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 09, 2019, 10:28:45 PM

The Cavs will pose a very different challenge.


Get a chance to see Darius Garland.  The guard some say we should've taken instead of RJ. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 10, 2019, 04:30:58 AM
Was anyone high on Garland?
He landed in a poor situation -- a weak, mismatched Cavs team and paired in the backcourt with another similar small young G in Sexton.
Don't imagine both will stay there for long. 
CLE will probably need to choose one.
But guess I should see them before proclaiming ish.

Out of the Top 8 last draft:
RJB     46% FT
Hayes 45% FT
Culver 35% FT

And Zion hasn't played.
So that's 3 of the Top 7 who can't make half their FT's.
Rather embarrassing.

Barrett could be averaging 20 a night if he was competent at FT's.
And like I mentioned, it will start to affect his game and how defenses play him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 10, 2019, 12:50:00 PM
Cleveland needed another guard, period.

Garland was the draft/combine darling - just not good enough to unseat the top 3 - and then ATL liked Hunter enough to deal up to 4 for him.

A very solid #5 pick, Winston's kid is.  And finally had an above 50% shooting night.  More should be coming soon.

20 in January.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 10, 2019, 01:38:45 PM
Cavs have lost to Bucks, Mavs, Pacers (away), Celtics and (cough) MAGIC

Just one bad one in there

Beat Bulls, Wizards and INDY (home).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 10, 2019, 06:38:09 PM
Mitch out at least tonight and Tuesday

Taj it up!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 10, 2019, 06:46:54 PM
PS: Fizz's obsession with Ellington, and the utter absence of minutes for Dotson (superior defender) and Trier (more versatile scoring threat) continues to baffle me.  Not that Ellington shouldn't get minutes, but DD and AT are part of our purported youth development posture, and have demonstrated positive attributes and growth when given real minutes.  I suspect that with a healthy Bullock, they will be further relegated to the pine. 


Just catching up

Chip - you do understand practice effort and production factors into minutes, right?
Title: Master Chico
Post by: carlos123 on November 10, 2019, 07:32:48 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 10, 2019, 06:46:54 PM
PS: Fizz's obsession with Ellington, and the utter absence of minutes for Dotson (superior defender) and Trier (more versatile scoring threat) continues to baffle me.  Not that Ellington shouldn't get minutes, but DD and AT are part of our purported youth development posture, and have demonstrated positive attributes and growth when given real minutes.  I suspect that with a healthy Bullock, they will be further relegated to the pine. 


Just catching up

Chip - you do understand practice effort and production factors into minutes, right?

I'm sure Chip is duly impressed with Chico's magisterial lesson.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 10, 2019, 08:43:41 PM
Whoa ya Frankie righted the ship that first half.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 10, 2019, 09:13:29 PM
Can Frank hold any point guard under 30?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 10, 2019, 09:58:13 PM
4pts on 4shots for our PG. 
Lillard scored 60 the other night.
Has Frank scored 60 yet?  This year?


Answer: No
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 10, 2019, 10:14:24 PM
lol y'all focused on Frank? He did ok in his 29th start. Def not as nice as v. Mavs.

Nice to see Dot's re-emergence continue. Hopefully those late three's knocked off the last rust flakes. Nice to see Fiz go to a three-guard at one point even though it included the wrong third guard.

Not much else nice. RJ's in a funk. Think those FT's beginning to mess with his head. Got to get a grip on that. Our big group of PF's really kinda stunk.
Title: This Is Kinda Funny
Post by: lesterluv on November 10, 2019, 10:21:49 PM
Knicks president Steve Mills and GM Scott Perry addressing media after blowout loss to Cavs. Mills: "We aren't happy where we are. This is not where we expected to be...(Jim Dolan) still believes in the plan that we put together."

The plan that we put together.

On a napkin.

In 5 minutes.

After we realized that not a single top-tier free agent was even gonna take a call. Nobody with any game would go near this crap.

After we gave up our stud for cap space. ***

Which we then had to fill up with c-listers and pretend nothing happened.

When is somebody getting fired? And I am not talking about Fiz.


****Can't believe anybody would ever crap on zingus for saying "waste my career here? Ya fucking NUTS buddy?"

Title: Les is more
Post by: carlos123 on November 10, 2019, 10:58:26 PM
Les, to answer your question, NO, you can’t fire Dolan.

On the other hand, you people are asking too much from these Knicks. I mean, they already won a game this month. You want another W before December? Well, good luck with that! 🏀
Title: Who?
Post by: carlos123 on November 10, 2019, 11:01:23 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 10, 2019, 09:13:29 PM
Can Frank hold any point guard under 30?

You mean Luca? He a PG? Sexton? Another PG?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 11, 2019, 04:06:04 AM
The 2 games I've seen straight through were the blowout losses to weak sisters.  SAC & CLE.

Franc was all right.  But started with two feeble passes both turnovers right out of the gate.  He got tow nice blocks, one on a Garland paint move, the kind of short shot quick G's often get and which are rarely blocked.  Then a 3Q block on a Deli 3. 

The energy wasn't there.  Barrett was quiet.
Down 25 in the 3Q, I started encouraging some 3's to get back in it, and Portis launches one from straight on ... an airball.

Knix had trouble with quick G's -- Sexton, Garland, Clarkson.

I liked Knox's effort and he finished with a Knick high +9.
Despite poor shooting, Knox got 6 FT's.  Fought over screens, and had one of his two blocks trailing his guy on a layup.   
A pair of assists/blocks/steals = effort.
But some mistakes, such as letting a stalled Clarkson fake and pivot around him for an easy layup; and letting his man (Porter) zoom baseline for an easy weakside putback rebound.
I think Knox has upped his aggression some, but still needs to play a little more physical and up his motor.   And keep his focus.

Is it possible Randle had a bad 20 & 16 game?
Dumb fouls, poor turnovers.  But he did fight ...

Starters 2-13 on 3's.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 11, 2019, 08:31:13 AM
"Knicks have trouble with quick guards"

Well, yeah, when you just pass him off to the next defender.....

What are we teaching here??????

Dammit.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 11, 2019, 09:09:55 AM
Mitch, Taj, Franc.  Probably our only three good defenders.

Randle, Portis, Trier get chumped.

Knox is making more effort on D.  Seems he's been told to get over screens and pursue his man.  There was one play where Knox got screened, and absolutely no one stepped in, so his man got an easy dunk.  Clarkson, I think it was.  Believe Taj was out with foul trouble.  Not sure why, but I didn't really see Taj's fouls.

Datsun and PBJ put in the effort but are young.
Speaking of, RJB's returns have diminished.
You can't rely on a 19 year old rook to provide energy, hustle, scoring, ballhandling 35 mins a night. 

Morris puts in the effort but is foul prone.

Not really sure what our team defensive scheme are.
Franc switches, Knox goes over screens, Randle sticks his foot under 3-point shooters.  Not sure if we play different depending if Mitch, Taj or neither is out there.  But you can funnel to Mitch.

Knix are a team of runs.
Need to steady both the O & D to avoid that.
Except for the Celt game, every game has been filled with big runs.  Speaks to cohesion.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jerrya on November 11, 2019, 09:16:40 AM
Mills needs to honest... him and Perry did a terrible job at assembling this roster, they did a terrible job at hiring a coach, and now they are looking for a scapegoat.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 11, 2019, 09:25:04 AM
Kam, sorry, I forgot about Garland.

Actually I had a busy Summer and paid little attention to the draft.  I never even saw a Barrett highlight reel, or indeed a picture of Barrett.  The little I read made Hunter & Culver sound like NBA ready 3&D wings.  But in early returns, both are shooting under 37% FG and below 27% on 3's (Cam Reddish much worse than that).

All I know about Garland is he's short ... and born the 21st C.
Did the Knix consider him?
Seems like Barrett became the consensus of a 3-man draft relatively early. 

Morant looks studly.
But if Klint goes to a Memf game I'd encourage him to bring a sign saying:
Get a Brain Morant ... and hold it up for any miscue.


(https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/001/296/morans.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 11, 2019, 09:31:59 AM
Quote from: Jerrya on November 11, 2019, 09:16:40 AM
Mills needs to honest... him and Perry did a terrible job at assembling this roster, they did a terrible job at hiring a coach, and now they are looking for a scapegoat.

I largely agree.
But hopefully they are readywillingable to switch to Plan E and cash in some of our vets and depth for more yute, picks and players that fit.

In other words, they didn't muck things up irrevocably (well, except KZ) -- kept the FA contracts short, held on to picks, and retained flexibility.  We have some desirable role players --  Morris, Taj, Franc-Elf-Smith, Portis, Trierellington -- who could help a playoff bound squad patch holes and fill in depth.  Which can fetch a decent return..

I mean, there's no reason to hold tight to this hot mess.
They can't be wedded to this.  They kept flexibility in their Plan D, so let's utilize that ...
Trade and tank, is Bo's motto this year . . .
Title: Get a Brain ...
Post by: bodiddley on November 11, 2019, 09:52:20 AM
In contrast to Fizz's run 'em into the ground philosophy:

Quote
The Grizzlies are going to great lengths to protect prized rookie point guard Ja Morant. The 20-year-old sat out Saturday's loss to the Mavericks because the team opted to rest him on the second night of a back-to-back. Morant has played more than 30 minutes in a game only once, logging 32 minutes during his 30-point, nine-assist night in an overtime win over the Nets.
Title: Re: Get a Brain ...
Post by: Kam on November 11, 2019, 12:15:32 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 11, 2019, 09:52:20 AM
In contrast to Fizz's run 'em into the ground philosophy:

Quote
The Grizzlies are going to great lengths to protect prized rookie point guard Ja Morant. The 20-year-old sat out Saturday's loss to the Mavericks because the team opted to rest him on the second night of a back-to-back. Morant has played more than 30 minutes in a game only once, logging 32 minutes during his 30-point, nine-assist night in an overtime win over the Nets.

A 20 year old doesn't need DNP-load management for a back to back. 

--->  Unless they're monitoring a pre-existing condition we don't know about.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 11, 2019, 12:48:20 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 11, 2019, 09:31:59 AM


In other words, they didn't muck things up irrevocably (well, except KZ) -- kept the FA contracts short, held on to picks, and retained flexibility.  We have some desirable role players --  Morris, Taj, Franc-Elf-Smith, Portis, Trierellington -- who could help a playoff bound squad patch holes and fill in depth.  Which can fetch a decent return..

I mean, there's no reason to hold tight to this hot mess.
They can't be wedded to this.  They kept flexibility in their Plan D, so let's utilize that ...
Trade and tank, is Bo's motto this year . . .

Yeah, a bright side —— it's been a different style of incredibly awful management and our future isn't mortgaged. I'm not convinced how valuable our role players are in trade, but we got reasonable cap space ahead and more than our own picks. Given competent leadership, not the worst place to be.

Of course the likelihood of competent leadership hasn't increased any (jeezus, Mills needs to GO...) though Knick sale rumors make it at least plausible/possible that Dolan goes back to the swamp he crawled out of at some point.


*** And let's also reiterate that PURPOSEFUL TANKING AGAIN is not viable or productive. It was corrosive and destructive last year. To say it GOT US RJ is to ignore that it probably COST US ZION or MORANT (and Porzingis and any shot at a TIER 1 FREE AGENT for that matter). The new lotto rules do what they are supposed to do, so pay attention to them (and it's looking like last year's draft was pretty rich and deep after all, lotta possible pearls shining in these early weeks).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 11, 2019, 01:07:49 PM
It's not a shocker that Fizz goes. Or should go. On this board, there's been little admiration for his strategic preparation, in-game coaching, and player development.

But Jesus, the balls on the guys running the organization! They're actually posturing that they gave him a competitive team?

They take accountability for nothing!

Nothing!

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 11, 2019, 01:35:21 PM
Just turned on the radio and heard Stephen A on the subject. Even for a dude practiced in the art of histrionics, he was so crazed, so incensed, I wondered about the likelihood of him having a coronary event on air.

I also wondered if Mills actually gets out of this unscathed.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 11, 2019, 01:42:32 PM
Beilein clearly has done more to Coach the cavs in a few months than Fizz has the Knicks in more than a year.

We need someone who can organize children because our roster is full of guys who are playing that way.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 11, 2019, 01:45:33 PM
Cavs have some intelligent players.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Merciless on November 11, 2019, 02:17:36 PM
Flew in to capture the pulse of the most passionate Knick fans on earth. I trust you are all well.

Sorry we still suck but I have moved on..citing the little known but very accurate quote/question from the movie Fever Pitch..."Let me just leave you with this thought, you love the Red Sox...but have they ever loved you back?"

I refuse to give a shit until Mills is gone. Maybe someday Dolan wakes up and realizes Mills is a fucking twit.

Peace brothers - Merciless (Miras)

MILLS, PERRY, FIZDALE

(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/heroes-and-villians/images/a/a3/20170821_153604.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20170821195404)

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 11, 2019, 02:31:58 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on November 11, 2019, 12:48:20 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 11, 2019, 09:31:59 AM
They kept flexibility in their Plan D, so let's utilize that ...
Trade and tank, is Bo's motto this year . . .

Yeah, a bright side ——  not the worst place to be.

Of course the likelihood of competent leadership hasn't increased any

Dolan targetting Masai Ujiri to replace Mills and Fire Fizz

https://sports.yahoo.com/reports-knicks-trying-hire-raptors-180629839.html (https://sports.yahoo.com/reports-knicks-trying-hire-raptors-180629839.html)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 11, 2019, 02:34:24 PM
Saw that, wouldn't that be something...sigh...don't put much stock in it though.
Title: steve kerr's lesson to frank ntilikina
Post by: Kam on November 11, 2019, 02:41:35 PM
"But it's more than that. It's don't be scared. It's like, you've got to compete. That's probably the biggest thing I learned from him, watching him, was he was just so fearless. He never shied away from the stigma that would come through failure. He understood fully that if he just went all out every single game and went for it on every single play, the positives would outweigh the negatives, but you just to have to live with the failure.

Kerr played five seasons with the Chicago Bulls.

"And at that point in my career, I just didn't want to be the goat. I didn't want to be the guy who screwed up the game. My tendency was to shy away from the big shot and just not make a mistake. I just didn't want to screw up. And so he, Michael, put so much pressure on everybody, and you just kind of realized: I've got to step up, and I've got to take my game to another level."
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 11, 2019, 03:01:09 PM
We'll know we're getting someplace when Frank yells give me the f'ing ball when Julius Randle tries to bring it up himself in the backcourt.



*** something that's really got to stop, like immediately, like right the f' now
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 11, 2019, 03:02:36 PM
Frankly. no Mills fan but I just think he figured the coach was better

I’ll stick with that

Stephen A says Mills “threw Fizdale under the bus”.  and “might as well have just fired him today”.  Whatever.  He’ll get paid.  and the embarrassment will wear off
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 11, 2019, 03:10:26 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on November 11, 2019, 03:01:09 PM
We'll know we're getting someplace when Frank yells give me the f'ing ball when Julius Randle tries to bring it up himself in the backcourt.



*** something that's really got to stop, like immediately, like right the f' now

Yeah, also Morris is guilty of the same cart blanche. Fizz undercuts Frank's importance by not making it a point of emphasis.
Title: Re: Get a Brain ...
Post by: bodiddley on November 11, 2019, 03:23:05 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 11, 2019, 12:15:32 PM
A 20 year old doesn't need DNP-load management for a back to back. 

We all know the rookie wall exists, and that 82 games is a couple of marathons with an obstacle course or two thrown in.  All the travel, and the grind and the learning and nearly 100 games including Summer.

Slowing things down, giving a game off here and there, keeping minutes and wear in check = taking care of your investment.  Seems much smarter than Fizz's Wilt Averaged Over 48 Minutes Approach.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 11, 2019, 03:52:58 PM
If you want to say Barrett's mind needs a rest - fine. 
his body is capable of handling what Fiz gives him.

But wouldn't mind seeing a Frank-Knox- Randle (or Morris)-Portis-Taj lineup for a stretch

Let em match up with US
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 11, 2019, 04:01:56 PM
I think we need Dot with Frank and Taj to minimize the Swiss cheese effect.

Hand Miller the clipboard and begin a slow coaching search that can go even slower if the Knicks are serious in chasing Ujiri.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 11, 2019, 04:11:51 PM
I would be happier with Fac's variation for the reason given..Plug in Dot. Boot RJ to SF. Swap out one of our ballhog PF's.

But don't mind giving Kiid's a whirl. As his harshest critic, have to give props to Knox for strides.

Still woeful on defense, but not so bad he's gonna automatically-lose-you-the-game all by himself like he was. Had one of those I-got-beat-like-a-turnstile, but stay alongside, and block the shot from behind Porzingis-style last game. Progress. Not sure where it ends up.

Expect we'll see some kind of change Tuesday.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 11, 2019, 07:15:30 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on November 11, 2019, 04:11:51 PM
I would be happier with Fac's variation for the reason given..Plug in Dot. Boot RJ to SF. Swap out one of our ballhog PF's.

But don't mind giving Kiid's a whirl. As his harshest critic, have to give props to Knox for strides.

Still woeful on defense, but not so bad he's gonna automatically-lose-you-the-game all by himself like he was. Had one of those I-got-beat-like-a-turnstile, but stay alongside, and block the shot from behind Porzingis-style last game. Progress. Not sure where it ends up.

Expect we'll see some kind of change Tuesday.

♡
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 11, 2019, 08:34:59 PM
Heh

Celtics G League affiliate gets 148 in opener

Tacko Fall with 13/11

Langford 10-15, 27 points
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 11, 2019, 09:53:12 PM
Celtics themselves about to beat the Mavs.

Zingus warming up for his return to MSG by going 1-11 with 5 fouls in 20 mins.

Hmm.

Meanwhile, Tatum goes 1 for .....17?????

Something must be wrong with that box, lol.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 11, 2019, 09:57:14 PM
Inconceivable to be 1-18 and a +17.

But that is what we have for Tatum

Kemba took over.  In the MVP conversation.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 11, 2019, 09:59:37 PM
Dwight Powell a +20.  Hardaway second at +8 in the 10 point loss.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on November 11, 2019, 10:27:02 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 11, 2019, 09:57:14 PM
Inconceivable to be 1-18 and a +17.

But that is what we have for Tatum

Kemba took over.  In the MVP conversation.

Rough night on the O-end for Tatum.

But he also had primary coverage on KP, who was 1-11, for 4 pts, which somewhat explains the +17.

Luka was good

Celts were better and legit good.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on November 11, 2019, 10:29:14 PM
and Jaylen is turning into a 2-way monster
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 12, 2019, 12:04:10 AM
Must be nice to root for the Celts.

You can have great games without scoring, but it’s good to score which Tatum clearly does.

Back in the gritty city...

http://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/11/11/20959332/new-york-knicks-steve-mills-scott-perry-press-conference-james-dolan (http://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/11/11/20959332/new-york-knicks-steve-mills-scott-perry-press-conference-james-dolan)

Ujiri, and anyone else worth mentioning, ain’t got time for that shit. Bitch, please. Sell the team.
Title: Dolan to Fac
Post by: carlos123 on November 12, 2019, 12:52:26 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 12, 2019, 12:04:10 AM

Ujiri, and anyone else worth mentioning, ain’t got time for that shit. Bitch, please. Sell the team.

Banned for life from MSG! 👺👹🤡
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 12, 2019, 04:11:32 AM
Kawhi 2-11 FG for 12 Pts and a near Quad-Double (9 Assists; 9 Turnovers)
Title: Mudiay
Post by: chipstern on November 12, 2019, 05:42:51 AM
4-5

1-1

11-4-1 in 15 minutes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on November 12, 2019, 08:17:27 AM
I'm not sure why we got rid of Mudiay, He was just getting comfortable and coming into his own.  Sorry guys this team isn't great but there is surely enuff on the squad to not be 2-8.  Fizzdale does not know how to coach and these dudes are young and needs coaching.  I don't blame Mills, or even Dolan because Dolan will dish out the bucks for whatever product is on the floor.  These guys needs consistency. I hate a coach who can't just pick a starting five and ride with them for some games and see what you got.  Ellington is a bust, take the L and move on put the stock back in Dotson, shit Bradzelikissss looked like a pro in Dleague along side Barrett, Lets see what we got.  Anyway pick your 9-10 man rotation and run them like deer.  We need consistency, someone looks like trash swap out the five.  Fizz cannot coach especially in the final 2 minutes I've never seen such blunder. Get Mark Jackson and straighten the ship, It will save the PG play, I still think Frank can be something his game looks refined,  He lacks confidence, every mistake he thinks he is going to the bench and just playing him instead of calling plays for him does not build it up. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 12, 2019, 10:06:08 AM
Disagree on Ellington, Jaq - all reports are he is a true pro in how he approaches practice time - and affects the young guys.  Is he holding back Dotson?  Only if Dot is killing it in practices.  No indication that he is - or he might be ahead of Trier as well.

Dennis Smith Jr is still the key unknown in this puzzle - and Elfrid Payton has been the key loss to the lineup.

Its a shame these guys factor into Fiz keeping/losing his job - though those of us who dont think he can coach anyway just see it as a MOVING UP of the process.
Title: @TommyBeer
Post by: Kam on November 12, 2019, 10:23:51 AM
Kristaps Porzingis is the only player in the NBA this season attempting more than 15 FG's per game, yet shooting 40% or worse from the floor and below 70% from the FT stripe.


The Mavs are scoring 101.2 points per 100 possessions with Porzingis ON the floor this season.

The Mavs are scoring 125.7 points per 100 possessions with Porzingis OFF the court this season.

KP'S Net Rating (minus-8.3) is the worst on the team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 12, 2019, 10:29:57 AM
Before the season started, I said you can't evaluate KZ until after Xmas.   It's a process, and he's working his way back.  He's a talented 2-way player.  Once he gets the rust off, his conditioning up, and confidence in, we'll see how good he is, and whether he's diminished some.  But it might take until next year that he returns fully to form.  Look at Gordy Haywire.  And one of many reasons I'm glad we didn't get Durant (& Kyrie).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 12, 2019, 11:38:13 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 12, 2019, 10:29:57 AM
Before the season started, I said you can't evaluate KZ until after Xmas.  But it might take until next year that he returns fully to form.  Look at Gordy Haywire. 
He got hurt 21 months ago.  Gordy 24 months ago.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 12, 2019, 11:58:00 AM
Gordy was up and down much of last year.
It's frustrating.  But part of the rehab/recovery process.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on November 12, 2019, 12:40:31 PM
Kidd I'm not sure what you see in Ellington, all I see is a guy who can get around a screen and launch a brick, Again This bunch is screaming to be coached,  Fizz is not the guy, niether Fisher, Niether Hornychex,  No more newbies, or headcase coaches.  I like Mark Jackson.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 12, 2019, 12:55:58 PM
Ellington?  Well. we agree the team is poorly coached, so none of our players are likely playing at optimum.  And it's ten games..... and I heard about his practice ethis (Payton falls in there as well)

I haven't really killed any player, sans Frank of late - and that's none of his doing - just my reaction to what I feel is the overrating of Frank by the masses.

I think any player out there busing his horns in our colors deserves our respect - up to the point where his words/actions get funny (see Melo, Stophon, select others).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 12, 2019, 01:36:27 PM
There was a point when we were getting close against Cleveland when, as Garland was bringing it up, Beilein called out from the side for three guys to head to the far side of the court and then for the one guy already there to come back and set a pick at the top of the key. It wasn’t calling out a play, it was “you, you, you -there! You - here!” The guy covering the screener got slowed by the cross traffic of the clear out. The screen caught the guard guarding Garland completely off guard. The three defenders who’s men cleared out we’re past the key and heading in the wrong direction when Garland turned the corner off the screen. Garland gets the open layup putting to bed the Knicks’ best run. That kind of impact and engagement with the game through coaching is what allows an unlikely team to over achieve. Any rumor that Fizz has ever done anything like that?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 12, 2019, 05:47:48 PM
Will Frank switch off Satoransky tonight?
Title: Another Fine Mess
Post by: chipstern on November 12, 2019, 06:23:31 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 12, 2019, 01:36:27 PM
There was a point when we were getting close against Cleveland when, as Garland was bringing it up, Beilein called out from the side for three guys to head to the far side of the court and then for the one guy already there to come back and set a pick at the top of the key. It wasn’t calling out a play, it was “you, you, you -there! You - here!” The guy covering the screener got slowed by the cross traffic of the clear out. The screen caught the guard guarding Garland completely off guard. The three defenders who’s men cleared out we’re past the key and heading in the wrong direction when Garland turned the corner off the screen. Garland gets the open layup putting to bed the Knicks’ best run. That kind of impact and engagement with the game through coaching is what allows an unlikely team to over achieve. Any rumor that Fizz has ever done anything like that?

Good point. 

And I have always been a Fizz supporter. 

But some of his moves seem, oh, suspect. 

Having said that, as per DAWG, hanging the coach out to dry, as if this wasn't a team effort from top to bottom?

Again, as per Mudiay, Utah inked him for a minimum contract, and his defensive faux pas notwithstanding, Fizz repurposed Mudiay, got his offensive game in gear, worked on kinks in his closeouts...

I like Peyton, and his steady presence as a rudder at the point (when ambulatory), but given our offensive inefficiency, it would've seemed prudent to hold on to an asset who could give up instant offense off of the bench. 

Perhaps the thought was that this would conflict somehow with Dennis Smith's development. 

In any event, what's done is done, but the departure of Vonleh, Herzonja, Kornet and Mudiay, after such time and effort was invested in "development" let alone in the team chemistry and bond developed in sharing the pain of 2018-2019, and starting from scratch as it were, save for Robinson, Knox, Ntilikina and Smith, is surely subject to reflection, and that ain't all on Fizz, but surely on Mills and Perry (Perry having been a Peyton booster, much as he was a Herzonja booster). 

And of course, as many will duly note, while I was taken aback by letting Mudiay walk, I was surely on board with the other moves Mills and Perry made. 

Still, having tossed out Plan A, Plan B and Plan C, moving on directly to Plan Q, should it be a surprise that given the up and down nature of rotations, that up and down play accrues? 

And of course, let's not overlook the reality of injuries to Robinson and Peyton and Bullock, Smith's own injuries and subsequent loss of rhythm, not to mention loss of a loved one, and Fizz's motivations in granting floor time and allocating minutes. 

In closing, having said all that, whatsoever Fizdale's failings, having him walk the plant a month or two into the season does nothing to address the Dolan-Mills-Perry-Fizdale scrum, nor does it set the stage for the recruitment of yet another coach, but rather, sets the stage for another Tankathon, and perhaps, months of civic masturbation surrounding Draft Savior 2.0 (James Wiseman), the Greek Freak...

In the meantime, calls for Fizz to be fired and the widely touted Mark Jackson to be hired, I mean, FUCK MARK JACKSON.  Not to discount his attributes, but hey, grow up Knicks fans. 

And for the pathetic misdirection play regarding our alleged corporate pursuit of Toronto Major Domo, Masai Ujiri, that is simply beyond pathetic. 

Why in the name of all that is HOLY, would Ujiri bail on his cushy spot, unimpeachable control, proven track record as a leader, judge of talent, breeder of champions (and rapist of James Dolan) to come to NYC for all the greenbacks in perdition? 

Donnie Walsh?

Phil Jackson? 

Kyrie Irving?

Kevin Durant?

Kemba Walker? 

Zion Williamson?

James Wiseman? 

Everyone needs to take a deep breath.  Changing horses in mid-stream accomplishes NOTHING. 

Making FAZZ walk the plank accomplishes nothing. 

Assigning blame accomplishes nothing. 

The sound and fury of a fire sale, the trade of all our newest signings and present assets? 

Draft picks?  Future cap space?  Better chemistry?

Or just re-arranging deck chairs on the Titanic? 

DOLAN DIVESTING?

Hahaha...

The Knicks are, for all the chaos and ever-mounting dysfunction, THE MOST VALUABLE FRANCHISE in the NBA, or damn near the top. 

Embrace the pain, Knicks fans.  No amount of scapegoating or blame laying will change things. 

Our team, such as it is, needs to own this season.

As for Jimmy The Jizz, and his merry band of men (Mills & Perry, and Fizz The Wiz)? 

(https://media0.giphy.com/media/3oEjHWiqJSSuLOdSQU/giphy.gif)
Title: Wake Up Call
Post by: lesterluv on November 12, 2019, 06:24:23 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 12, 2019, 05:47:48 PM
Will Frank switch off Satoransky tonight?

lol, I'm expecting to see some different play from a number of people this eve....
Title: Ommmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Post by: chipstern on November 12, 2019, 06:32:02 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on November 12, 2019, 06:24:23 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 12, 2019, 05:47:48 PM
Will Frank switch off Satoransky tonight?

lol, I'm expecting to see some different play from a number of people this eve....

(https://media3.giphy.com/media/zgTJjlSyvmNlC/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 12, 2019, 06:55:10 PM
The "Bobby Portis game" was our first win of the season. 
Remember we got out to a 33-15 1st q deficit before rallying behind Portis and Kevin off the bench. 
So i expect the same slow start.

If we start well that bodes well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 12, 2019, 07:09:16 PM
Why in the name of all that is HOLY, would Ujiri bail on his cushy spot, unimpeachable control, proven track record as a leader, judge of talent, breeder of champions (and rapist of James Dolan) to come to NYC for all the greenbacks in perdition?


Come on man - you know the answer to this

Basketball ROYALTY if he can right this ship.
Title: Dolan
Post by: Kam on November 12, 2019, 07:32:17 PM
Dolan is a wild card.  Willing to $pend so... no four year contract is safe (Fizdale).  He wants to pressure the coach so he sends his men Mills and Perry to come out and issue a shot at the coach.

But there's no one out there to replace him that would make any difference.  Especially without a training camp.  So Dolan floats this Ujiri fantasy to throw us  a\ bone and distract us from this ongoing dumpster fire.

Fiz to his credit will not change what he does.  That's his strong suit. Smiling and taking bullets for his players.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on November 12, 2019, 07:32:44 PM
Quote from: elephant on November 11, 2019, 01:35:21 PM
Just turned on the radio and heard Stephen A on the subject. Even for a dude practiced in the art of histrionics, he was so crazed, so incensed, I wondered about the likelihood of him having a coronary event on air.

I also wondered if Mills actually gets out of this unscathed.

And he wants Mark Jackson as the coach. ::)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 12, 2019, 07:44:41 PM
Taking bullets for......whatttttt?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jerrya on November 12, 2019, 07:48:34 PM
Fiz will be gone by 12/15
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 12, 2019, 08:03:41 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 12, 2019, 07:44:41 PM
Taking bullets for......whatttttt?

He takes the high road and doesn't make excuses and throw anyone under the bus = his players will play harder for him
Title: DSJ
Post by: Kam on November 12, 2019, 08:43:35 PM
-16 in 5 minutes!

a 22-20 lead turned into a 24-36 deficit while DSJ and Dotson were in the game for Frank and RJ

Title: RJ Barrett loves to play vs the Bulls
Post by: Kam on November 12, 2019, 08:50:38 PM
He's stuffing the stat sheet again

12-4-3-1-0 thus far

19-15-5-0-1 on Oct 28 vs Bulls
Title: Knox
Post by: Kam on November 12, 2019, 08:52:44 PM
Nice pass by Knox to Taj.

Knox has a more well rounded game this season. 

Credit Fiz for his improvement?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 12, 2019, 09:23:18 PM
Evidently Knox worked out, got much sturdier.  Has always been solid with his decisions.

But sure - coach always gets credit for atmosphere conducive to improvement
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 12, 2019, 09:24:14 PM
Not watching the game.  Will check in later with some observations.
Title: The unstoppable Coby White
Post by: Kam on November 12, 2019, 10:16:38 PM
Enough with the switching D..... it just leaves guys wide open.
Title: Julius Randle
Post by: Kam on November 12, 2019, 10:28:52 PM
Randle is NOT the player we were sold.   He is underperforming.  Whos fault is that?  His? The PG? The offense? 
I don't know but he is our supposed "Best player" but he is not living up to that. 

I would expect Randle to be head and shoulders above Morris but he isn't.
Title: Barrett vs CHI
Post by: Kam on November 12, 2019, 10:33:02 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 12, 2019, 08:50:38 PM


19-15-5-0-1 on Oct 28 vs Bulls

21-9-6-2-0 tonight



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 12, 2019, 10:54:45 PM
Randle is highly talented, but miscast as primary creator because he’s so good for his spot as a secondary creator. Could he become better at it over time? Sure with work and coaching. As a basic big, he’s no Wendell Carter, but few are. Only 2 turnovers tonight. Randle was having a quiet but decent outing until he saw three defenders in the paint, put his head down and spun into them mid fourth quarter.

This team has so many ways to lose its confidence, but that particular play is near the top of the list.

We only look good offensively when we press and run. We have no way of attempting to generate momentum in the opposing defense from anything I’ve seen us do in the half court. Guys stand around a fuck-ton and that seems to be OK. 

Thursday has the potential to be really bad.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 12, 2019, 11:01:21 PM
The third 4-minute Smith stretch seems to have been a dagger

But think on your feet, Fiz.  Entering the 4th quarter on the road you had just tied the game at 85.  Barrett was a +15, having a good overall night and had played just 23 minutes

Yet by the time you get him (and Frank) in you are down 10+

Just unfathomable.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 12, 2019, 11:05:08 PM
Coach in over his head.

“Let them play free” are words I never want to hear again from a Knicks coach. It takes a little more than freedom to coordinate five guys on a basketball court.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 12, 2019, 11:18:48 PM
Dennis Smith was not ready to play.  Rusty and the team just fell apart with him on the floor multiple times.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 13, 2019, 12:17:57 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 11, 2019, 03:52:58 PM

But wouldn't mind seeing a Frank-Knox- Randle (or Morris)-Portis-Taj lineup for a stretch

Let em match up with US

You basically got it, or a version (Randle + Morris, no Portis) at end of first half. Skills sets a bit duplicative and you end up with Taj on Zach LaVine more than is optimal despite Taj's defensive prowess —but wasn't bad and sure beat the heck out of any lineup with DJr. Wow...the horror. Not gonna crack on that kid, what with what he's going through and first game back, but Fiz for letting it happen. Wow.

Suspect it's all over after Mavs game, right or wrong, unless we pull out another rabbit there.


*** Most of Coby's three-barrage came against Knox if I remember correct. Only one came on Frank, that after he moved to protect the basket (successfully) after Smith let his man stroll to the hoop. Somebody else should have rotated (didn't naturally) and Frank had to try and jump back.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on November 13, 2019, 08:50:05 AM
WTF Happened to SmithJr,  ever since he stepped on the court he look lost, unmotivated, shots look flat, not driven to the hoop, he looks like D. Rose did when he came here.  It seems evident to me Smith does not want to be a Knick his body language is telling a story.  He played above the rim in Dallas, he may be heartbroken to have been traded but this is a business suck it up and move on.  If this guy doesn't get it together by December it's time to cash him in for beans.  I'll reiterate one more time Fizz cannot coach, some people have the last 20 we tried did not.  Im starting to feel like the pressure of coaching in NY is much harder then in other markets.  Fuck it bring back Mike Woodson at least he wasn't afraid and besides that switching defense which it seems we are playing now (Grrrr) He was a damn good coach who wasn't afraid of the spotlight.  Smith and Ellington for jacks beans ASAP.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 13, 2019, 09:05:21 AM
It's a lost season/development year.

So no reason to try to Sell Low on Jr. Smith.
He had some back trouble and then significant family issues (his step-mom who raised him died).  So cut him a little slack.  Besides, he's not why we're 2-9.  I'd like to see Franc get long minutes and Smith get solid backup mins, and let them both develop and up their value.

Furthermore, after Dec 15, we can package Morris, Portis, Taj, Ellington, Randle in a deal.  Jr. Smith alone is not going to get back much.  But he (or Franc/Elf) could sweeten a bigger deal.  Lotta thin teams out there who could use a starter and 2 role players to beef up their team.   

Also, certainly a chance Jr. Smith can get his groove back and play well.  Fizz helped right Muddy, who I'd argue was in worse shape.  Knix would do well to push the pace, as Barrett can get down court and finish well.  While Randle and Knox are good on the break as well.  Morris could be good in the Melo-trailer role.
Our half court O is rather stagnant, so early offense helps.
Smith is fast and could help with that.

My hope is that one of Franc/Smith advances and becomes a steady PG.  (and maybe the other is tossed into a trade).
We have a month or two or three to see what Franc and Smith can do with this team.  With 3 PG, we have options. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 13, 2019, 09:25:26 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 13, 2019, 09:05:21 AM
Besides, he's not why we're 2-9. 

Well, actually, I do believe we're at least 3-8...that was an incredible amount of damage in a pretty short time last night  — several of his 2nd unit running mates pitched in as well, to...er...assist — but point taken.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on November 13, 2019, 09:26:07 AM
Frank is growning on me and I think Mudiay resurgence was more of him realizing this was his last chance and he was out the door or a permanent 3rd stringer.  We been bad for years and at some point we got to get pass the rebuilding process and start playing with some sense of urgency.  These coaches get a pass because we suck.  The Lakers sucked for one season and was making power moves to get the ship right.  We are stuck in mediocrity and everyone is content, even new players come and fall in line with the Knick suck mantra.  We need a coach who is preaching winning and making these players believe they can win.  Fizz is not the guy.  Imagine at work if you can get away with being mediocre and your boss just says, maybe next time you'll do better.  You will have no fear of punishment so you become stuck in mediocrity.  The boss who the workers fear always have the best workers who over achieve.  We need a new boss.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 13, 2019, 10:01:53 AM
I'm agnostic on Fizz.
Don't think it's the right time to change coaches, and would give him a full 2 (or 2+) years to coach.

But if a coaching change helped with the tank, and led to some vets being moved for yute/picks, then I'm in.

I want more yute and picks.
Barrett - Mitch - Knox are building blocks.
A very young core.
We need a PG.
I want another blue-chip high pick ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 13, 2019, 10:11:33 AM
As far as re-signing Morris, I'd be fine with it, if it included moving Randle.  Clyde's been hammering how they don't play well together, or in the same game.  And much of that is because they both have iso-heavy styles.  Morris the better shooter and defender.  Randle younger and so more on the Knick timeline.  But if NYK wanted Morris as one of the leaders/vets going forward, okay with me.  But move Randle then. 

I'd be making inquiries about both of them, looking for the best deal.  The choice might depend on who is a better locker room presence and encourages the pups.  Which I have no insight on.
I could see Morris and his toughness and aggressiveness being a good mentor for Knox.  I also would be fine with moving both of Morris and Randle...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 13, 2019, 10:25:52 AM
Besides, he's not why we're 2-9.

Well........

you could make a case.....

PG position in general.

So combination of the inavailabilities of Smith and Payton - yes - HAS led to 2-9, in my opinion.

I do think we'd be at least 4-7 if what we thought we had in August was available every night - intact.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 13, 2019, 10:28:36 AM
Headline:

Bulls rookie Coby White outscores Knicks in 4th quarter

Yikes

(remember that season maybe 6 or 7 years back where it seemed every other game someone would have a career high v. the Knix?
Guys like Dunleavy, Mike Scott)

A number of Coby's 3's were wide open.
I saw in the 2Q where 2 Knix closed out hard on Maark, who still made the shot, with 2 perimeter mates open.
Knix need to work on 3 Pt D.
Word is Knix are slow of foot.
But need to improve communication and discipline.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 13, 2019, 10:32:39 AM


Frank is growning on me and I think Mudiay resurgence was more of him realizing this was his last chance and he was out the door or a permanent 3rd stringer

I think Emmanuel was simply developing

I always give guys a chance.  Have never given up totally on a young player, including Nillie
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 13, 2019, 10:52:44 AM
I want another blue-chip high pick ...


Meh.

Not sure where you are getting a top ten poick from

I am OK with the top 5 we likely get - I like the current list.
Including

https://www.nbadraft.net/top-10-international-prospects-for-2020-nba-draft/

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 13, 2019, 11:11:57 AM
Top Ten, hopefully Top 5, pick from losing excessively.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 13, 2019, 11:23:50 AM
Yeah, thats a given at this point

Any other pick added would be much later in the round.

But frankly I think we could take a swing at a PG from 20 on down and be successful.  Only thing is we will be swinging at a free agent and considering using our high pick at the same position.  But if we take BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE with pick 1 in 2020 draft - and it is not a point, this opportunity does open - as I cant think of too many free agents at the position that would be looking to come here.

So lets just say we get lucky and get Wiseman -

do we roll with Frank?
Add any veteran free agent point who would consider us (hell, Mudiay would be an option at that point)
Grab a late number one from somewhere ......and use it on a PG with experience (read - not a frosh), such as Hagans - KY, Haluburton - Iowa St or Tre Jones.- DUKE
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on November 13, 2019, 11:50:25 AM
The players look lost, especially in the fourth quarter when the coach is suppose to calm his team and call set plays to blow time off the clock.  Everybody looks confused especially Fizz.  We are losing these players at the beginning of the year they all sound confident, now everybody sounds like this is another losing season and we should be patient.  No don't let that mentality sink in with another crop of players.  This is now the NY mentality, Losing is accepted we need new leadership to make losing a curse, someone the players will trust and who better then the original Golden state Warrior.  Remember how heartbroken the team was when Mark left, Steph did not even want to talk to Steve Kerr.  Now thats a players coach, and just like Oakley, Melo, and Steph, Mark is banned and nobody knows why.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 13, 2019, 11:55:14 AM
I think if we add Wiseman and, say.......Montrezl Harrel...

we might be pretty good next year

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 13, 2019, 11:58:44 AM
Teague, Dragic, VavVleet, Augustin and Jackson are the available points in free agency, in addition to Mudiay
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 13, 2019, 12:03:12 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 13, 2019, 10:28:36 AM


A number of Coby's 3's were wide open.
I saw in the 2Q where 2 Knix closed out hard on Maark, who still made the shot, with 2 perimeter mates open.
Knix need to work on 3 Pt D.
Word is Knix are slow of foot.
But need to improve communication and discipline.

Because opponents know the KNicks will switch on every pick.

I say let's not be so predictable.  Play man to man, and if you get picked force the offense to make those shots before you start switching.

Switch sometimes.  Not all the time.   Be less predictable.  FOrce the offense to hit the wide open shot that the pick affords before you get all switchy.  And if the offensive player drives instead of shooting you have shotblockers back there for a reason.  Don't switch all the time.  Switching all the time leads to smart offenses getting any mismatch they want.  I'd rather give up an open 20 footer (which is by point per possession the least valuable shot in the game) than let a guy have a mismatch post up and-1 opportunity.
Title: Fiz Really Need to Go
Post by: lesterluv on November 13, 2019, 12:07:43 PM
whatever empathy I momentarily felt, or, however much Dolan and Mills are more primal causes

FIZ REALLY NEEDS TO GO

RIGHT THE FUCK NOW

https://youtu.be/F2RxmOi2xCM

Post Game Interviewer "Coach the effort was there from...."

Fiz Interrupting: "Coby White...(300 superlatives about Coby White)"

Coby White didn't just go off.

Coby White went off for 7 4th quarter threes because

A) There were terrible defenders assigned to him

B) Terrible defense was played against him

Post Game Interviewer "Those two runs, btwn 1st & 2cnd and start of the fourth....what just happened in those two"

Fiz: "Threes. They just bombed us out and its really hard to answer that three ball. When teams are hitting multiple threes in a row...I don't know how they got em but I just kept seeing them go in.

Fuck Fizz. Goodbye. Really quickly please.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 13, 2019, 12:10:26 PM
Fiz said it was the Bulls SPEED that Knicks had no ansswewr for

I didnt see White nabbing any of those threes by speed.

Just the line - "I dont know how he moves so fast with all that hair" is fireable

But we love Fiz.  Really, we do.  Don Chaney light.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 13, 2019, 01:07:58 PM
Lineups

Depth charts should not be seen as rockey fucking science

Take Sactown for instance.  Tough injury to D'Aaron Fox, right

So here are the minutes with Fox out:

Hield  - 37
JOSEPH - 37
Bogdo -   31

Not mix and match - next guy up

Frank gets 35+
Not 21, then 32, then 16, then 34 again.....
Title: Re: Fiz Really Need to Go
Post by: FWK00 on November 13, 2019, 01:28:58 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on November 13, 2019, 12:07:43 PM
whatever empathy I momentarily felt, or, however much Dolan and Mills are more primal causes

FIZ REALLY NEEDS TO GO

RIGHT THE FUCK NOW

https://youtu.be/F2RxmOi2xCM

Post Game Interviewer "Coach the effort was there from...."

Fiz Interrupting: "Coby White...(300 superlatives about Coby White)"

Coby White didn't just go off.

Coby White went off for 7 4th quarter threes because

A) There were terrible defenders assigned to him

B) Terrible defense was played against him

Post Game Interviewer "Those two runs, btwn 1st & 2cnd and start of the fourth....what just happened in those two"

Fiz: "Threes. They just bombed us out and its really hard to answer that three ball. When teams are hitting multiple threes in a row...I don't know how they got em but I just kept seeing them go in.

Fuck Fizz. Goodbye. Really quickly please.

"I just kept seeing them go in."

Couldn't believe my eyes.

I'm with you Les.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Merciless on November 13, 2019, 01:31:46 PM
Safe to say that Plan B is an unmitigated disaster 11 games in.  Dying to see how the brain trust weasels it's way out of this one. They talked a big game

Oh wait, let's clear cap space for.........

Bunch of no-nothing fucking losers
Title: Re: Fiz Really Need to Go
Post by: lesterluv on November 13, 2019, 01:51:24 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on November 13, 2019, 01:28:58 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on November 13, 2019, 12:07:43 PM
whatever empathy I momentarily felt, or, however much Dolan and Mills are more primal causes

FIZ REALLY NEEDS TO GO

RIGHT THE FUCK NOW

https://youtu.be/F2RxmOi2xCM

Post Game Interviewer "Coach the effort was there from...."

Fiz Interrupting: "Coby White...(300 superlatives about Coby White)"

Coby White didn't just go off.

Coby White went off for 7 4th quarter threes because

A) There were terrible defenders assigned to him

B) Terrible defense was played against him

Post Game Interviewer "Those two runs, btwn 1st & 2cnd and start of the fourth....what just happened in those two"

Fiz: "Threes. They just bombed us out and its really hard to answer that three ball. When teams are hitting multiple threes in a row...I don't know how they got em but I just kept seeing them go in.

Fuck Fizz. Goodbye. Really quickly please.

"I just kept seeing them go in."

Couldn't believe my eyes.

I'm with you Les.

Can you imagine a Pops or Doc saying that?

They'd tell you actually how each one happened from missed assignment to three-steps-backwards-in the sequence leading up to them. Who. Where. How. Why.

Basta Ya!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 13, 2019, 02:12:23 PM
Quote from: Merciless on November 13, 2019, 01:31:46 PM
Safe to say that Plan B is an unmitigated disaster 11 games in.  Dying to see how the brain trust weasels it's way out of this one. They talked a big game

Oh wait, let's clear cap space for.........

Bunch of no-nothing fucking losers

I think Morris and Gibson are doing fine.

Have to see some better overall play from Bobby and better shooting from Ellington

Payton you cant judge yet.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 13, 2019, 02:18:28 PM
Knox was in decent position and made reasonable closeouts on the first two Coby 3's.  Acceptable D/effort.  The second one he was a little worried about the drive which got Coby the small space he needed. 

At least two others had everybody collapsing on penetration and nobody staying out on the perimeter or bothering to close out.  Actually, one Franc came out, but there were two open 3-point shooters to cover.  He would have been better choosing the hot shooter, but at least he was aware of the threat(s).
Title: Wheezy
Post by: bodiddley on November 13, 2019, 02:22:17 PM
Weasel?
I have a few Siberian weasels in my garden.  They look like skinny squirrels.  They were a bright golden-orange in the Summer but look more brown now.  Who'd a thunk there'd be weasels in downtown Shanghai.

Now back to your regularly schedule Knick smackdown . . .
Title: Re: Fiz Really Need to Go
Post by: FWK00 on November 13, 2019, 02:42:12 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on November 13, 2019, 01:51:24 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on November 13, 2019, 01:28:58 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on November 13, 2019, 12:07:43 PM
whatever empathy I momentarily felt, or, however much Dolan and Mills are more primal causes

FIZ REALLY NEEDS TO GO

RIGHT THE FUCK NOW

https://youtu.be/F2RxmOi2xCM

Post Game Interviewer "Coach the effort was there from...."

Fiz Interrupting: "Coby White...(300 superlatives about Coby White)"

Coby White didn't just go off.

Coby White went off for 7 4th quarter threes because

A) There were terrible defenders assigned to him

B) Terrible defense was played against him

Post Game Interviewer "Those two runs, btwn 1st & 2cnd and start of the fourth....what just happened in those two"

Fiz: "Threes. They just bombed us out and its really hard to answer that three ball. When teams are hitting multiple threes in a row...I don't know how they got em but I just kept seeing them go in.

Fuck Fizz. Goodbye. Really quickly please.

"I just kept seeing them go in."

Couldn't believe my eyes.

I'm with you Les.

Can you imagine a Pops or Doc saying that?

They'd tell you actually how each one happened from missed assignment to three-steps-backwards-in the sequence leading up to them. Who. Where. How. Why.

Basta Ya!

Fiz: "Who. Where. How. Why.? Please.  What me worry? I got a contract.
Title: Chaney Light
Post by: chipstern on November 13, 2019, 03:20:48 PM
A nice turn of phrase, Kiid. 

Am I the only one who remembers who the Dashing Don (that goes out to you, BoD) basically crippled Allan Houston, coming off of surgery, by playing him for 50+ Minutes against Kobe as I recall.  Allan was just hitting his stride as an all-around 2-guard, but Don was in survival mode.  Alas. 

Speaking of alas...

Why hasn't Dennis Smith been allowed to get his mojo back in Westchester.  He needs minutes as the bell cow. 

While I am sure Fizz meant well, more or less, the Knicks have done Dennis no favors byt hanging him out to dry. 

Am I the only one who remembers Smith's initial buzz as a Knick last season, when he was a dynamic penetrator.  Whatever his deficiencies as an out side shooter, he seemingly got to the glass at will. 

You could SEE HIM THINKING every time he even thought about a penetration, and when he did get to the rack his first thought was not to finish, but to dish, a noble sentiment for sure, but, oh, man...poor kid. 

The Knicks are submarining his confidence.  And Thursday night against Dallas could get nasty. 

PS: Julius Randle has won me over with his effort, but the notion of him being a facilitating point forward is, how shall we say, flawed.  Not that he isn't an excellent and willing passer.  But, I have to believe, that if we had him, from time to time, camped out in the post, ready to receive a pass from a penetrator, and thus to make a quick, DECISIVE move to the rack--instead of his trademark dribble into a triple team move, shades of Melo--he'd have more success. 

PPS: Thought?  How about Mitchell starting at center, Morris at PF and RJ at SF, with Randle first off the bench at C/PF, Taj and Knox at PF-SF, and let's get Dot and AT in to some sort of rhythm.  As for the PG spot, well, your guess is as good as mine. 

PPPS: Every time I saw Coby got the ball in the fourth quarter, I shuddered.  A long honored Knicks trad of allowing three-point shooters to get in rhythm and go totally unconscious. 
Title: FIZZ MUST [Not] GO
Post by: chipstern on November 13, 2019, 03:28:56 PM
Look, while the questions and critiques are persuasive...

Firing YET ANOTHER COACH, yet again, not to mention, a month into the fucking season, will not advance the team, nor it's prospects to get a top-tier coach to willingly enter the MSG Meat Grinder, nor facilitate even the ghost of a chance that any free agent worth a damn will choose to come ride in the clown car. 

Those fantasizing about Mark Jackson?  Clearly he would jump at the opportunity to coach the Knicks.  Would he be a good choice?  He might. 

But in mid-crisis?  Without the opportunity to participate in the draft process?  Or free agency and summer league?  Or to get his system in place during July-August-September or to select his own lieutenants. 

It would appear Dolan's Assaholic Kulture is exceeded only by that of Knicks FANS. 

Oh, and we are in the post-Philly TOTAL TANK EPOCH, where having the worst record does naught to enhance our shot at the #1 prospect. 

Hey, if I had a signed affidavit from Jehovah that another systematic tank job would net us Wiseman, I might be persuaded to apply the old Saudi bone saw to Fizz...least ways book him passage on a Carnival Cruise...still...

Firing Fizz accomplishes what, exactly?  Besides satisfying the blood lust of Knicks fans? 

(https://media0.giphy.com/media/11eUEe8fAvgk48/giphy.gif)

Elevating an assistant as a solution?  Given, there is a precedent for pulling the plug on something clearly gone south, such as when Nellie was shit canned in favor of JVG.  But that was a case of the coach blowing off his #1 player (that Ewing Fellow) in favor of his own enigmatic style of hoops.  And firing The Fisher King to elevate Rambis wasn't exactly a brainstorm, save if you admired the way that bespectacled douche obsequiously force fed our conscripts the triangle or went out of his way to publicly denigrate and humiliate Jimmer, who had dutifully done his work and been a good soldier at Westchester? 

Anyway, knock yourselves out folks. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Merciless on November 13, 2019, 03:42:26 PM
Dare I say only Dolan can save us right now. He needs to throw these 3 incompetent assholes out onto the dirty side of 31st street...and hand the keys to the kingdom to Masai at any cost. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 13, 2019, 03:46:04 PM
Re:  Dennis

Read this all the way through to get the Dallas take on him

https://thesmokingcuban.com/2019/06/15/dallas-mavericks-2019-revisiting-kristaps-porzingis-trade/3/

Hint - they feel Mavs gave up a boatload in the deal
Title: Urine Luck
Post by: chipstern on November 13, 2019, 03:56:00 PM
Quote from: Merciless on November 13, 2019, 03:42:26 PM
Dare I say only Dolan can save us right now. He needs to throw these 3 incompetent assholes out onto the dirty side of 31st street...and hand the keys to the kingdom to Masai at any cost.

Right, like Masai is going to bail on the Raptors immediately after pulling off his signature Kawhi trade, and gifting the city a world championship. 

No matter the cost? 

Hahaha...

My dear Brother, the Merciless One, is wearing his sentiments on his shirt sleeve in a manner he usually ascribes to this rose-hued douche. 

(https://media3.giphy.com/media/3orieSgCMqPlB4YF3y/giphy.gif)

I would suggest that Miras be made to submit a urine sample. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 13, 2019, 04:04:25 PM
He has OG & Pascal up there to, don’t forget.

It’s not a fire the coach to fire the coach thing. The guy hasn’t imparted and deployed X’s And O’s at a mid major level. Nobody alive gets his rotations.

Miller gets X’s and O’s and sideline coaching. He’s under contract.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 13, 2019, 04:07:02 PM
Chip

This isnt a ZION year, by all accounts

No clear #1.

Like I said - I will take a top FIVE - and who knows - we may even get our first choice there - that is how scattered it is.

Hate to say it - but LaMelo fits.

We could go 6-6, 6-7, 6-8 across the backcourt
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Merciless on November 13, 2019, 04:21:51 PM
Yes, once again you are right Chipper as you've shown time and time again over the last 2 decades...my apologies, let's eat shit and be patient.
Title: Re: FIZZ MUST [Not] GO
Post by: lesterluv on November 13, 2019, 04:32:08 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 13, 2019, 03:28:56 PM

Firing Fizz accomplishes what, exactly?  Besides satisfying the blood lust of Knicks fans? 


What exactly? Well, with a good hire, brings this exactly, the two things you generally want to happen with a coach.

1. more games won
2. more learning & improvement from players


..I don't know how they got em but I just kept seeing them go in.
Title: Let's Just Let That Settle in Our Mind a Bit
Post by: lesterluv on November 13, 2019, 04:35:09 PM
..I don't know how they got em but I just kept seeing them go in.
Title: Or Maybe A Little Movement Can Help You
Post by: lesterluv on November 13, 2019, 04:37:55 PM
I don't know how they got em but I just kept seeing them go in.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 13, 2019, 04:39:16 PM
You still gonna ask that question?



**** I'm not even going to share Fiz's comments on DJr.'s +/-. Which implied that despite the ludicrous plus minus AND despite what we saw with our own eyes, DJ played well. Which is mind-fucking.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 13, 2019, 04:39:28 PM
Tanking hasn't guaranteed a #1 pick in decades.
It's about getting a high pick, hopefully in the Top 5.
Most drafts drop a level after that, with of course a few fine gentlemen scattered throughout the rest of the 1st round.

#5 a few years ago netted DeA Fox, instead of our choice of Franc/Jr. Smith at #8. 
#5 was Trae Young (or Wendell Carter) instead of Knox at #9.
(though Shai went #11)
Last year #5 was Garland, though we already cashed in out tankeriffic with RJB at #3.

Things would look different in Knickerland if we had Fox or Trae.
(or Shai)

Besides #1 picks have had a fairly spotty record.
I thought it was silly Knick fans were so obsessed with Zion.  Our odds were always going to be low, and I'm not sure how long Zion will hold up under that weight.

RJB looks like a blue chip yute, with a long career if Fizz doesn't cripple him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 13, 2019, 04:45:16 PM
And as of a year ago, though apparently not understood by Knick brass and many of the people here, tanking no longer guarantees you a top 5 pick.

3 of the 5 worst teams did NOT get one.

Tanking is now about getting a top 10 pick.

So you DO NOT purposefully tank, Silver won, which is a good thing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 13, 2019, 04:53:17 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 13, 2019, 03:28:56 PM

Firing Fizz accomplishes what, exactly?  Besides satisfying the blood lust of Knicks fans? 


Sometimes, Chip..you really are a little much.


..It accomplishes getting rid of a complete idiot coach. Like really, really painfully inadequate for an NBA position. Like not possessing any of the necessary skills. In sports, that's a big positive for a team, to get rid of such a person.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 13, 2019, 05:16:16 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on November 13, 2019, 04:45:16 PM
And as of a year ago, though apparently not understood by Knick brass and many of the people here, tanking no longer guarantees you a top 5 pick.


While i agree that Tanking is passé
Being the very worst team actually DOES guarantee you a Top 5 pick. 
The problem is its 47.9% likely to be #5.


Seed                    1st     2nd                    3rd             4th                 5th   
1                        .14     .134173189   .127486524   .119720474   .478619813


We got lucky last season to increase +2 spots from our most likely position.
We technically had a better shot at Zion than RJ
So Tanking is no longer any fun.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 13, 2019, 05:22:27 PM
Uh, the team with the worst record is guaranteed a Top 5 pick.
Previously they were guaranteed a Top 4 pick.
Odds for the 4 lottery chosen top slots have been flattened out.

That dopey DAL article has a chump fretting about what was given away.  I laughed when he said Jr. Smith was starting to shoot 3's well and play good defense.

then there's this bit of sophistry:
Quote
Keep in mind that the Dallas Mavericks are getting a 7’3 Kristaps Porzingis that is recovering from a torn ACL.

There is almost no precedent on players that tall lasting in the NBA. Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Yao Ming, and others all had their careers cut short because of injuries. Mark Eaton is virtually the only player as tall or taller than Porzingis who was durable throughout a lengthy career.

7'6" Sean Bradley played 800+ games, many for DAL, until 32.
7'4" Smits almost 900 games until age 33, missing few games.

And of course there isn't much difference in one inch.
7'2" and over adds some super durable Bigs:
Kareem 1560 games, 2nd most ever and into his 40's;
Artis Gilmore 1300+ until age 38;
Mutombo 1200 games into his 40's.

Hard to believe that one extra inch means your career is doomed to be shortened.

And of course, KZ isn't carrying the weight that Big Z and Yao did.
Both mainly had foot problems, not knee.
Still Z played 843 games, made all-star teams and lasted until age 35, after a few early years of foot woes.  So actually his career argues doubly against the point the writer cited him for. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 13, 2019, 05:27:14 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 13, 2019, 05:16:16 PM
We got lucky last season to increase +2 spots from our most likely position.

Yes, if you put it that way.
But it was also more likely that we'd get a Top 4 pick than get the 5th pick.  So not at all surprising that we move up since there was a 52% of that happening.

2nd worst record guarantees a Top 6 pick, with the same 52% chance of getting a Top 4, since they flattened the odds.
But 2nd worst record has an 80% chance of getting a Top 5 pick.   Only a 20% chance of getting the 6th pick, since it's likely the worst record team will get a lottery Top 4, giving the 2nd worst record a Top 5. 

Tanking still worth it.
I'm thankful we got RJB last year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on November 13, 2019, 05:30:07 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on November 13, 2019, 04:53:17 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 13, 2019, 03:28:56 PM

Firing Fizz accomplishes what, exactly?  Besides satisfying the blood lust of Knicks fans? 


Sometimes, Chip..you really are a little much.


..It accomplishes getting rid of a complete idiot coach. Like really, really painfully inadequate for an NBA position. Like not possessing any of the necessary skills. In sports, that's a big positive for a team, to get rid of such a person.

Shakespeare couldn't have said it better.
Title: Re: Or Maybe A Little Movement Can Help You
Post by: FWK00 on November 13, 2019, 05:33:06 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on November 13, 2019, 04:37:55 PM
I don't know how they got em but I just kept seeing them go in.

Can't stop myself from laughing.  Our head coach.  Priceless.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on November 13, 2019, 05:36:09 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 13, 2019, 03:46:04 PM
Re:  Dennis

Read this all the way through to get the Dallas take on him

https://thesmokingcuban.com/2019/06/15/dallas-mavericks-2019-revisiting-kristaps-porzingis-trade/3/

Hint - they feel Mavs gave up a boatload in the deal

DSJ's boat be sinking.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 13, 2019, 05:51:22 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 13, 2019, 05:27:14 PM

Tanking still worth it.
I'm thankful we got RJB last year.

Lol, tanking is so absolutely not worth it now, I feel like ya need a Chip-Font post, but I'll spare ya.

Silver was right. Corrosive to team, corrosive to fan base (You don't have any sense cause your out there in China, but NOBODY, ABSOLUTELY NOBODY gives a fuck about the Knicks in NYC after last year. Lifelong Knicks fans haven't watched a game this season. I can barely get a conversation up about the team outside this forum.  I gotta come here to hang out, smack around, get smacked. And even from China, you must have noticed that there are only 6 posters left in here.It's a sad sick few who still care whether Dot or Trier is first SG of the bench.)

Not going to run through the math and the situations with you again, but tanking fucked three of the worst five teams. You can say it worked for us, but more realistically, if we hadn't been tanking, we prob would have Zion or Morant + Porzingis + an A List Summer 2019 Free Agent right now. 

A hell of a lot happier fan base. A much rosier attitude. Better stuff to watch. That's why we do it right? I don't know about you actually.


*** Added bonus. Prob woulda ditched Fiz sooner right now if he had achieved the same non-result while trying to win.
Title: Shakespeare
Post by: chipstern on November 13, 2019, 06:37:44 PM
Willie The Shake Wouldn't Have Called For Firing The Coach In Mid-Season. 

But then, Willie never met LesterDawg.

"The croaking raven doth bellow for revenge."
Hamlet
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 13, 2019, 08:47:14 PM
Lets get Rick Pitino in here (hopefully he has an out clause)

67 years young.  Plenty left, I'd think.
Title: Young teams get coaches fired
Post by: Kam on November 13, 2019, 11:08:48 PM
It's not a question of IF but WHEN DFiz will be let go.  He is smiling because he will get paid to do nothing but appear on ESPN as a guest host until he gets his next (assistant) coaching gig.   He is truly clueless about this roster. 

That said, a young team with new faces and not good PG play can only look so good.  This wasn't a playoff team and if Fiz goes then Mills and Perry should too.

Then you clean house.   You try to get someone in the backcourt.  Frank NEVER penetrates.   Can you have a PG in this league who won't/can't drive to the hoop and score/get fouled?  No.  Not a starter.  Not even a good backup.  If you're sentimentally attached to Frank then stash him at the end of the bench.  Trade some contracts for a PROFESSIONAL PG.

Randle and Peyton to Utah for Mike Conley and a first round pick.

Title: Re: Young teams get coaches fired
Post by: chipstern on November 13, 2019, 11:42:24 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 13, 2019, 11:08:48 PM
It's not a question of IF but WHEN DFiz will be let go.  He is smiling because he will get paid to do nothing but appear on ESPN as a guest host until he gets his next (assistant) coaching gig.   He is truly clueless about this roster. 

That said, a young team with new faces and not good PG play can only look so good.  This wasn't a playoff team and if Fiz goes then Mills and Perry should too.

Then you clean house.   You try to get someone in the backcourt.  Frank NEVER penetrates.   Can you have a PG in this league who won't/can't drive to the hoop and score/get fouled?  No.  Not a starter.  Not even a good backup.  If you're sentimentally attached to Frank then stash him at the end of the bench.  Trade some contracts for a PROFESSIONAL PG.

Randle and Peyton to Utah for Mike Conley and a first round pick.

Hahahaha

Realism not your strong suit, is it? 
Title: Re: Young teams get coaches fired
Post by: Kam on November 13, 2019, 11:46:44 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 13, 2019, 11:42:24 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 13, 2019, 11:08:48 PM
It's not a question of IF but WHEN DFiz will be let go.  He is smiling because he will get paid to do nothing but appear on ESPN as a guest host until he gets his next (assistant) coaching gig.   He is truly clueless about this roster. 

That said, a young team with new faces and not good PG play can only look so good.  This wasn't a playoff team and if Fiz goes then Mills and Perry should too.

Then you clean house.   You try to get someone in the backcourt.  Frank NEVER penetrates.   Can you have a PG in this league who won't/can't drive to the hoop and score/get fouled?  No.  Not a starter.  Not even a good backup.  If you're sentimentally attached to Frank then stash him at the end of the bench.  Trade some contracts for a PROFESSIONAL PG.

Randle and Peyton to Utah for Mike Conley and a first round pick.

Hahahaha

Realism not your strong suit, is it?

It's a brilliant deal for us.   Utah gets better.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 13, 2019, 11:48:23 PM
https://twitter.com/TommyBeer/status/1194356488179003393 (https://twitter.com/TommyBeer/status/1194356488179003393)

Knicks Top 10 in ISO Frequency.
BUT 29th in the league in points per ISO possession.

We've seen this all last year, all this year.
FIZ's Mandate: Shoot Shit Shots. As Many As Possible.

Nobody learns a damn thing about basketball.
Nobody gets better. This thing must be extirpated as quickly as possible. For the sake of the young.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 14, 2019, 12:25:03 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on November 13, 2019, 05:51:22 PM
more realistically, if we hadn't been tanking, we prob would have Zion or Morant + Porzingis + an A List Summer 2019 Free Agent right now. 

Huh?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 14, 2019, 08:19:53 AM
Randle and Peyton to Utah for Mike Conley and a first round pick.


You want to pay Conley 34 mil next season?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 14, 2019, 08:23:33 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 14, 2019, 12:25:03 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on November 13, 2019, 05:51:22 PM
more realistically, if we hadn't been tanking, we prob would have Zion or Morant + Porzingis + an A List Summer 2019 Free Agent right now. 

Huh?

Can't help it if you're slow.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jerrya on November 14, 2019, 08:43:39 AM
I am all for getting rid of Fiz  but I think there's more than that.  It all starts at the top.  We know we can't get rid of Dolan, but we sure as heck can dump Mills and Perry.  They were the ones who put together this roster and staff.  So we should let the new powers put together the next staff which means Fiz should remain until they are jettisoned.  Problem is how long will this take?  It's really unbelievable how this franchise can put together such a dysfunctional organization!
Title: CORROSIVE
Post by: lesterluv on November 14, 2019, 09:37:07 AM
Got a group of friends who use to go out and watch with me a couple times of year.

Have had ONE convo with any of them about Knicks this season.

Bud called me up after flipping on some game to check in and said "What's with that piece of crap wearing Bernard's number?"
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 14, 2019, 09:40:34 AM
It's his fucking NUMBER.  Get over it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 14, 2019, 09:47:59 AM
I'll tell him that next time he calls to talk Knicks. Which will probably be 2022 the way things are going.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 14, 2019, 10:42:07 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on November 14, 2019, 08:23:33 AM
more realistically, if we hadn't been tanking, we prob would have Zion or Morant + Porzingis + an A List Summer 2019 Free Agent right now. 

This is completely nonsensical.
And apparently you can't explain it.
I assume nobody else has any idea what in the world you mean either.

I guess in string theory there could be an infinite number of alternative universes, in which this trifecta could possibly happen once.  I hear Chip is President there as well.
 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on November 14, 2019, 10:54:21 AM
Finally everybody is seeing that Fizz is trash and has been since he been here.  Here's an Idea CP3 is still looking good over in purgatory in OKC.  lets trade for the remains of CP3 who cares about his salary no stars want to play for us anyway.  Get some floor leadership on the court and in the locker room so we don't fuck the heads up of this young core that we have.  Contrary to what everyone keep saying about management I do not believe the roster is as bad as Fizz is making it look.  We have some decent parts, I rarely see more than 2 dunks  with this knick squad every shot is from the perimeter, our bigs take more jumpers then the guards, this is not healthy basketball.  We need more pick and rolls to the basket, more guard penetration and set plays to get players in rhythm.  It is a free for all out there.  Again as far as DSmith his body language says he doesn't want to be a knick, he looks nothing like the Dallas smith, when he shoot its like its who cares if it goes in kind of form.  Get him outta here trade him to OKC for Cpaul, shit throw in Ellington and we take back CP3 salary.  Save the Season NOW. P.s. this is my last year wasting $250 on the league pass to watch these sorry ass knicks play.  On the other hand I am loving me some Phoenix Suns.  Them dudes are well coached and that squad is gon be dangerous by next year.
Title: No Big Bang. No Quantum Anything. Just Doing Your Best to Improve & Win
Post by: lesterluv on November 14, 2019, 11:00:11 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 14, 2019, 10:42:07 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on November 14, 2019, 08:23:33 AM
more realistically, if we hadn't been tanking, we prob would have Zion or Morant + Porzingis + an A List Summer 2019 Free Agent right now. 

This is completely nonsensical.
And apparently you can't explain it.
I assume nobody else has any idea what in the world you mean either.

I guess in string theory there could be an infinite number of alternative universes, in which this trifecta could possibly happen once.  I hear Chip is President there as well.

Lol, you are too funny. Of course I can explain it. 850 words Bo-Style. Yet still very clearly for your wee little brain when I have the chance. (have a life, lol) No string theory involved. Just what happens if we had tried to win games and finish in a 5-8 spot (likeliest outcome) & end up looking like an improving team rather than a hot, steaming pile of 17-65 doo doo.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 14, 2019, 11:10:09 AM
Anyway, I think you're just upset cause your favorite coach looks like he's about to be axed. Take a deep breath. He'll be Ok, You'll be Ok either way.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 14, 2019, 11:11:28 AM
No A list free agent wanted to play in KP's shadow.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 14, 2019, 11:25:43 AM
Quote from: jaqdavisone on November 14, 2019, 10:54:21 AM
Finally everybody is seeing that Fizz is trash and has been since he been here.  Here's an Idea CP3 is still looking good over in purgatory in OKC.  lets trade for the remains of CP3 who cares about his salary no stars want to play for us anyway.  Get some floor leadership on the court and in the locker room so we don't fuck the heads up of this young core that we have.  Contrary to what everyone keep saying about management I do not believe the roster is as bad as Fizz is making it look.  We have some decent parts, I rarely see more than 2 dunks  with this knick squad every shot is from the perimeter, our bigs take more jumpers then the guards, this is not healthy basketball.  We need more pick and rolls to the basket, more guard penetration and set plays to get players in rhythm.  It is a free for all out there.  Again as far as DSmith his body language says he doesn't want to be a knick, he looks nothing like the Dallas smith, when he shoot its like its who cares if it goes in kind of form.  Get him outta here trade him to OKC for Cpaul, shit throw in Ellington and we take back CP3 salary.  Save the Season NOW. P.s. this is my last year wasting $250 on the league pass to watch these sorry ass knicks play.  On the other hand I am loving me some Phoenix Suns.  Them dudes are well coached and that squad is gon be dangerous by next year.

Good post

Not sure who we would give for CP3.  Have to match the numbers

D Smith did have one nice sequence - where he drove, then dished to Taj for the layup. 

I also noticed that someone posted him at -16 his first 5 minutes - and when I went back to the box score at one point Dennis was -12 over 10.

Of course then that ugly stretch beginning of fourth doomed the whole thing.

Just looking for glimmers at this point.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 14, 2019, 11:44:21 AM
So we should have been a playoff team last year?
Tanking caused KZ to demand a trade?
And somehow Zion or Morant would materialize on the Knix?

Does anyone think any of that accords with any kind of reality??

Otherwise, I am not a Fizz fan. 
I was probably Fizz's biggest detractor when we hired him, calling him a chronic BS-er.  And he still somewhat rubs me the wrong way.  Most here seemed to like him when he was hired. 
I just don't like constantly churning over the roster and the coach.  Continuity would help the Knicks a good deal.

Last year, I thought Fizz got many reclamation and rooks to play above expectations -- Mud, Mitch, Trier, Knox(?), Vonleh, Burke, Dot -- gave everyone a chance to shine, and succeeded in tanking and getting us RJB.  Positives.  To me, 17 W's was better than 27 or 37.  Nabbed us RJB

This year, I don't like the way Fizz is using Franc (too little) or RJB (too much).   I blame the front office for giving Fizz another mismatched roster, albeit one with more talent than last year's.
Still hardly anyone expected these Knix to win 30 games.
So I want to develop players, figure out who stays, get some chemistry between the long-term components, and don't care about winning 20 or 30 games 

Regardless, I'd want our coach, any coach, to get at least 2 full years to do his thing.  If Fizz is a good development and tanking coach, then he'll have improved our yute and added two blue chip Top 5 draftees.  And his time here wouldn't have been a waste.
Title: You can do this. Try Try.
Post by: lesterluv on November 14, 2019, 11:48:37 AM
Quote from: Kam on November 14, 2019, 11:11:28 AM
No A list free agent wanted to play in KP's shadow.

Kam has a complete immediate understanding of what I mean.
He disagrees with part three, but he gets it. Pretty simple stuff.
C'mon Brother Bo. No need to reach for the Quantum Electron Microscope. C'mon...


*** and that would be alongside or in front of, despite KP's 87 inches, not in shadow of, btw
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 14, 2019, 12:02:30 PM
Hey Kam, what does he mean?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 14, 2019, 12:18:08 PM

So we should have been a playoff team last year?
Tanking caused KZ to demand a trade?
And somehow Zion or Morant would materialize on the Knix?

Does anyone think any of that accords with any kind of reality?

um...  what?

Should have?  How about could have?

Porzingis?  YES.  I believe this was partly, if not solely to blame.

Zion or Morant?  Well, yeah, obviously they were 2 of the prizes.  We got one of the others.

NBA lottery fun.


What was your question again?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 14, 2019, 12:47:22 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 14, 2019, 12:02:30 PM
Hey Kam, what does he mean?

Memphis and New Orleans both won exactly 33 games.
Thus... if we were on track to win 33 games Les asserts KP wouldn't have asked for a trade
And we would've potentially, had some of those wins come vs Memphis or New Orleans prevented THEM from winning the first two lottery picks, thus giving us the shot at Zion or Morant.


But Les... Dallas also won 33 games but picked 10th and that pick ended up being Cam Reddish.

So your  WIN MORE games but still miss the playoffs theory under closer scrutiny falls apart
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 14, 2019, 12:52:16 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 14, 2019, 08:19:53 AM
Randle and Peyton to Utah for Mike Conley and a first round pick.


You want to pay Conley 34 mil next season?

It's better than paying CP3 44 for two more years. 
Title: Re: CORROSIVE
Post by: Merciless on November 14, 2019, 01:21:02 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on November 14, 2019, 09:37:07 AM
Got a group of friends who use to go out and watch with me a couple times of year.

Have had ONE convo with any of them about Knicks this season.

Bud called me up after flipping on some game to check in and said "What's with that piece of crap wearing Bernard's number?"

Agree...#30 is mother fucking royalty

Title: EZ like a..sunday that thing
Post by: lesterluv on November 14, 2019, 01:57:50 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 14, 2019, 12:47:22 PM

But Les... Dallas also won 33 games but picked 10th and that pick ended up being Cam Reddish.

So your  WIN MORE games but still miss the playoffs theory under closer scrutiny falls apart

I wouldn't say falls apart. Yes, the Reddish spot would certainly be a possibility. The Wizard's 5-turns into 9 spot another. But realistically, about 50-50 we end up with with one of Zion/Morant had we not gone for purposeful tank. To me that's value, as I still like both those guys ahead of Barrett. **

The Math

50% shot at BETTER than Barrett +
50% chance at a pretty good guy who is not Barrett +
greater chance KP doesn't demand out or changes mind once he sees we are actually not a ludicrous league-laughingstock hot pile of shit headed up+
much greater chance somebody whose signature move isn't POUND POUND POUND POUND SPIN & FUMBLE considers playing here  +
much, much greater chance your young players actually learn something about the game +
Your friends don't wince, cough, laugh hysterically when you mention your favorite team =



Supremely easy-to-understand value proposition

** To each his own, I like Barrett a lot.
Title: Honestly, the IQ is 50 or is it even less than that? Done Explaining This
Post by: lesterluv on November 14, 2019, 02:12:25 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 14, 2019, 11:44:21 AM
So we should have been a playoff team last year?]
No. Who said that? Not me. I guess you can neither read nor think.

Quote
Tanking caused KZ to demand a trade?
Surely what he witnessed contributed to his desire to not waste one second more of his career here.

Quote
And somehow Zion or Morant would materialize on the Knix?
Somehow? A very likely outcome, per my above post.

Title: Conk me up!
Post by: bodiddley on November 14, 2019, 02:17:57 PM
'6ers were a sad sack, endured some pain and now are a co-favorite to get to the Finals.  And The Process could have been faster if both Embiid and Simmons didn't miss a full season.  While the fultz up didn't help either.

Two decades of losing, yet Knick fans can't even stomach two years of truly bottoming out . . .

The only thing I agree with in Les' revision fantasy is that top FA's don't look to come to a team that is at bottom.  Which is why I wouldn't have counted on FA's this Summer or next. 

With where we're at, I'd go all in on yute, by trading some of Morris, Randle, Portis, Taj, Ellington, a PG for more yute and picks.  Build around RJB, Knox, Mitch, next year's Top 5 pick, and whatever yute and picks we get for our vets.  (and any of Franc. Jr. Smith, Trier, Dot who manage to play 2-way hoops).

If firing Fizz now/soon aids the tank, then I can get with the (new) program.  Let the Knick Process unfold. 
Title: The Only Revisionist Fantasy is the One You Are Still Living In
Post by: lesterluv on November 14, 2019, 02:25:25 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 14, 2019, 02:17:57 PM
'6ers were a sad sack, endured some pain and now are a co-favorite to get to the Finals.  And The Process could have been faster if both Embiid and Simmons didn't miss a full season.  While the fultz up didn't help either.

Bo, this is what you don't get. It's not even worth referencing the 76ers. As of last year, that process, no longer possible.

Over. Done. Doesn't apply to us. Didn't Apply to us.

The only possible winning process is smart, talented management. Top down. Let's get us some.
Title: Biz, Run a Poll: I Understand v. I Don't Understand
Post by: lesterluv on November 14, 2019, 02:31:09 PM
wait...there is no more Biz.

He must have gotten corroded, too.


***F'n regular horror movie in here, zombie eats basketball forum flick, and then there were...and there was...one guy left, sitting somewhere out there in China all by himself watching a pirated feed, wondering why everybody else doesn't have the stomach to watch more 17-65 seasons after 18 year of losing, don't you understand how the Sixers did it? don't you underStand THE PROCESS???? don't you FEEEL THE PROMISE???? MORE FIZ! MORE WIZ!! MORE CHEESE!!! Toughen up fancy pants NYC bitches -- you can't tell me the Pelicans and the Grizz got Morant & Zion, it didn't happpppppppppppppppen.

*****Nice to see you check back in Merciless, I hope for your sake you are still not holding season tix.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 14, 2019, 02:36:00 PM
Doesn't apply to us?
Worked last year when we tanked, had the worst record, got the #3 pick and drafted RJB. 
I'd like to double dip and do it again.

Worst record:
52% chance of Top 4 -- Top 5 guaranteed

2nd worst record:
52% chance of Top 4  -- 80% chance of Top 5
Top 6 guaranteed (20% chance)

3rd worst record:
52% chance of Top 4 pick

All they did was add one extra lotto slot, so the worst record and any others who don't win the lottery can drop one spot lower than before.

But they also flattened the odds, so the worst record has lower odds than before, but the 2nd & 3rd-worst now have a much better chance of moving up into the Top 4. 

The chance of the #1 pick was 25% before I believe, so it was never a likely thing.   Picking in the Top 3 and Top 5 is very valuable.  Knicks did that by tanking.  Should do it again.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 14, 2019, 02:46:06 PM
With where we're at, I'd go all in on yute, by trading some of Morris, Randle, Portis, Taj, Ellington, a PG for more yute and picks. 


Don't trade someone who might help you be better - sooner just to have someone who cannot yet grow stubble.
Title: Can't Read, Add, Subtract, or Think
Post by: lesterluv on November 14, 2019, 02:47:57 PM
Tried.
Out.
Keep slicing that ham.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 14, 2019, 03:48:01 PM
The only possible winning process is smart, talented management. Top down. Let's get us some.


Fans who ran Phil off (or condoned it) deserve this
Title: Wow...Just...WOW
Post by: chipstern on November 14, 2019, 04:26:29 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 14, 2019, 03:48:01 PM
The only possible winning process is smart, talented management. Top down. Let's get us some.


Fans who ran Phil off (or condoned it) deserve this

(https://media3.giphy.com/media/14ehKu0wQaONvG/giphy.gif)

Just when you think it's safe to get back in the water, you launch one of your carefully calculated, feces-filled, patent pending, contrarian depth charges of DUH. 

 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 14, 2019, 04:57:25 PM
After we get housed by the Mavs tonight, you free Fizz. Give the reigns to Miller. Keep Scott and Steve till if and when you find a new top guy who you’ll let completely clean house.

You know how much better Miller made your GLeague team. You know what he does. It gives you a good chance to side the development of young players and a framework to judge the relative quality of your roster compared to other teams.

Right now we may not often be as good as our opponents, but we make ourselves look way worse than we should be with both extended offensive droughts and stretches where get beat in the same aspect of our D again and again. We’ve had a lot of coaches and rosters over the years. There weren’t all that many times it’s been this ridiculous in my memory. And I remember things being pretty damn bad.

Fizz is a swell guy. This chapter just isn’t working out.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 14, 2019, 05:05:59 PM
Tough call:

Steelers-Browns
Knicks-Mavs
Title: Alternate Reality
Post by: chipstern on November 14, 2019, 05:14:04 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 14, 2019, 10:42:07 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on November 14, 2019, 08:23:33 AM
more realistically, if we hadn't been tanking, we prob would have Zion or Morant + Porzingis + an A List Summer 2019 Free Agent right now. 

This is completely nonsensical.
And apparently you can't explain it.
I assume nobody else has any idea what in the world you mean either.

I guess in string theory there could be an infinite number of alternative universes, in which this trifecta could possibly happen once. 

I hear Chip is President there as well.

It's true...I do reside in my own Alternate Reality.

Best of all, it's rose-colored. 

However, it's not true that Chip 1011 is President.

I'm the Owner of the New York Knickerbockers NBA franchise. 

Jerry West is my VP In Charge Of Operations

Monty Williams is my coach. 

Pharoah is my assistant coach. 

(https://blacksportsonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Jesus-Crossover-e1431471797645.jpg)

Jesus Of Nazareth is my offensive coordinator.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/m3X39y8ngd8d2/giphy.gif)

Josef Stalin is my defensive coordinator. 
[Late on defensive switches, don't get over screens, permit open three-pointers...YOU DIE]

John Stockton is my PG. 

Bill Russell is my Center.

Bernard King is my SF.

Steph Curry is my SG.

Jordan Hill [er] Anita Hill [damn]  Bob Pettit is my PF 

Pete Maravitch is my 6th man. 

(http://papa.motd.org/cave/ming/ming-cbm.jpg)

Miras The Merciless handles Media Relations.

Kam is in charge of scouting.

FWK is responsible for video production. 

BoD handles Puns and Catering.

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/AssuredUnselfishCormorant-small.gif)

Kiid has the pop corn concession. 

(https://media2.giphy.com/media/TZQNhQtWfRdDi/source.gif)

Lester Dawg cleans up after the circus. 

Title: Re: Alternate Reality
Post by: lesterluv on November 14, 2019, 06:12:26 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 14, 2019, 05:14:04 PM

(https://media2.giphy.com/media/TZQNhQtWfRdDi/source.gif)

Lester Dawg cleans up after the circus.

:))) Looking forward to tonight's circus. It, and the aftermath, should be entertaining one way or another.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 14, 2019, 06:30:53 PM
(https://collectionapi.metmuseum.org/api/collection/v1/iiif/270098/600516/restricted)

Chip ponders next move
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 14, 2019, 07:16:50 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/ryEEYQ8.png)

Lesterdog ponders the idea that Bo is chastizing New Yorkers for not being tough enough to withstand the 17-65 repeat with Fiz he so badly desires. Lol, can you imagine — If we really do do this again somebody is going to burn down the Garden by mid-March.

Quote from: bodiddley on November 14, 2019, 02:17:57 PM
Two decades of losing, yet Knick fans can't even stomach two years of truly bottoming out . . .



Quote from: bodiddley on November 14, 2019, 02:36:00 PM
I'd like to double dip and do it again.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 14, 2019, 07:22:39 PM
Seems where we’re headed though.
Title: Re: Biz, Run a Poll: I Understand v. I Don't Understand
Post by: Merciless on November 14, 2019, 07:26:55 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on November 14, 2019, 02:31:09 PM
wait...there is no more Biz.

*****Nice to see you check back in Merciless, I hope for your sake you are still not holding season tix.

Season tix???  You must be fucking with me... I haven't set foot near the dump in 2 years. I wont support anything that douche nozzle Mills touches.

Say what you want about Dolan, but the dude ain't afraid to open his wallet and spend $$$. He's just a bit of an idiot picking his leadership team. But somehow I suspect that Mills is behind a lot of it. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 14, 2019, 07:56:01 PM
You know Mills wasnt in charge of buying the groceries for too long, right?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 14, 2019, 08:22:46 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 14, 2019, 06:30:53 PM
(https://collectionapi.metmuseum.org/api/collection/v1/iiif/270098/600516/restricted)

Chip ponders next move

Nicely played. 

Meanwhile, Kiid has yet another Jimmer epiphany. 

(https://media3.giphy.com/media/Le3POzx5WuaJy/source.gif)

Title: Dallas Vs New York
Post by: chipstern on November 14, 2019, 08:25:19 PM
DAMN

Garden is loud as a motherfucker. 

Let's see if Knicks can sustain the vibe for another 40 minutes.

[Right on cue, RJ shanks a jumper and KP sinks a FT]
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 14, 2019, 08:43:29 PM
KP sucks chant

Love it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 14, 2019, 08:44:53 PM
Forum whipping boy with 8/5 in first Q

Bench goes 7/11
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 14, 2019, 08:55:56 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 14, 2019, 08:43:29 PM
KP sucks chant

Love it.

And it seems to have an effect on his play.
Loved the defensive intensity in the first Q.
Where has it been all year, Coach?
I don't think Fizz is a rah rah guy.
He's not an X's and O's guy or a motivator.
He's a substitutions guy. Game manager.
He's the Frank Ntilikina of coaches.
Title: Porland feelin' Melo
Post by: Kam on November 14, 2019, 09:04:38 PM
Carmelo Anthony a Portlandian!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 14, 2019, 09:09:11 PM
They needed someone.

I can root for him easily there
Title: Dennis
Post by: chipstern on November 14, 2019, 09:20:21 PM
Happy for Smith.

Getting in to rhythm.

Nice chemistry and energy with Mitchell.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 14, 2019, 09:20:54 PM
Fantasy hoops

I am the WORST

Had D'angelo on injured list when he dropped 52

Tonight - Mitch
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 14, 2019, 09:25:28 PM
Coby White

5 more threes first half vs Bucks
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 14, 2019, 09:26:13 PM
Best all around half of the year.

Great to see strong effort from so many guys. Love seeing Smith finding the groove.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Merciless on November 14, 2019, 09:28:27 PM
Morris is a chuck. His inconsistency and what appears to be "I'm gonna get mine" attitude is not suited well for this team. If he drew and kicked more the Knicks would be a lot better off.
Title: Mitchell vs KP
Post by: Kam on November 14, 2019, 09:39:47 PM
KP:     16min 13-8-1-1-2  4-10fg
Mitch: 16min 14-7-0-0-1   6-7fg
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 14, 2019, 09:40:37 PM
Quote from: Merciless on November 14, 2019, 09:28:27 PM
Morris is a chuck. His inconsistency and what appears to be "I'm gonna get mine" attitude is not suited well for this team. If he drew and kicked more the Knicks would be a lot better off.

He's the biggest black hole on the team.

Averaging 1.2 assist and 2.3 turnovers per 34 minutes.

13 assists over 11 games.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 14, 2019, 09:43:46 PM
Quote from: Merciless on November 14, 2019, 09:28:27 PM
Morris is a chuck. His inconsistency and what appears to be "I'm gonna get mine" attitude is not suited well for this team. If he drew and kicked more the Knicks would be a lot better off.

It's spelled L-E-A-D-E-R
Title: Re: Porland feelin' Melo
Post by: lesterluv on November 14, 2019, 09:54:40 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 14, 2019, 09:04:38 PM
Carmelo Anthony a Portlandian!

Always thought that was where he should have requested back when he was requesting destinations!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Merciless on November 14, 2019, 09:56:07 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 14, 2019, 09:43:46 PM
Quote from: Merciless on November 14, 2019, 09:28:27 PM
Morris is a chuck. His inconsistency and what appears to be "I'm gonna get mine" attitude is not suited well for this team. If he drew and kicked more the Knicks would be a lot better off.

It's spelled L-E-A-D-E-R

Well your L-E-A-D-E-R has us at 2-9. Not being critical but the mofo could pass every now and then. He's averaging 1 apg.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 14, 2019, 10:01:06 PM
In the third Q the defense has suffered but the offense keeps making big buckets to maintain the lead.

Portis and Dotson bench offense has been a pleasant surprise.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 14, 2019, 10:01:47 PM
NBA ACTION!!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 14, 2019, 10:02:29 PM
Is Frank checking Luca?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 14, 2019, 10:03:52 PM
ohhhhhhhh dear!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 14, 2019, 10:04:12 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 14, 2019, 10:02:29 PM
Is Frank checking Luca?

No Frank has had 5 fouls since early 3rd q
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 14, 2019, 10:04:42 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 14, 2019, 10:02:29 PM
Is Frank checking Luca?

You didn't notice? He's on the bench after a call FazWhale should have challenged!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 14, 2019, 10:05:40 PM
Quote from: Merciless on November 14, 2019, 09:56:07 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 14, 2019, 09:43:46 PM
Quote from: Merciless on November 14, 2019, 09:28:27 PM
Morris is a chuck. His inconsistency and what appears to be "I'm gonna get mine" attitude is not suited well for this team. If he drew and kicked more the Knicks would be a lot better off.

It's spelled L-E-A-D-E-R

Well your L-E-A-D-E-R has us at 2-9. Not being critical but the mofo could pass every now and then. He's averaging 1 apg.

What bothered me more was the head-down non runback as Porzingis sprinted downcourt past him they showed at halftime.
Title: Tied after 3
Post by: Kam on November 14, 2019, 10:06:42 PM
Another tie game heading into the 4th.  Who wins? Who decides? 

That was some NBA offense in action and good to see us hanging in.

But i sense the grip slipping off this game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 14, 2019, 10:07:40 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on November 14, 2019, 10:04:42 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 14, 2019, 10:02:29 PM
Is Frank checking Luca?

You didn't notice? He's on the bench after a call FazWhale should have challenged!

Challenge what?  That was a shit pass by Morris.  Put Frank on the bench.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 14, 2019, 10:10:00 PM
The Mav fell into his path, looked like, not the other way around.

I think we best build some kind of lead here with Luca and KP out...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 14, 2019, 10:11:48 PM
RANDLE CANT BRING THE BALL UP ANYMORE!!! NOT ALLOWED. POINT FORWARD NOT.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 14, 2019, 10:12:07 PM
Frank is a left to right passer.  He doesn't even pass it forward    : (
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 14, 2019, 10:13:33 PM
HE JUST PASSED IT FORWARD ;)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 14, 2019, 10:19:07 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on November 14, 2019, 10:13:33 PM
HE JUST PASSED IT FORWARD ;)

On the play before he passed it sideways to Randle before even crossing backcourt.
Randle gave it back and he passed it up again sideways.  He doesn't even THINK score.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 14, 2019, 10:21:02 PM
The Randle shit is out of control.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 14, 2019, 10:23:17 PM
Keep Portis, Gibson,Knox, RJ, and Robinson.

Trade Randle and Morris
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Merciless on November 14, 2019, 10:25:21 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 14, 2019, 10:23:17 PM
Keep Portis, Gibson,Knox, RJ, and Robinson.

Trade Randle and Morris

I'm with you. How the fuck is Randle leading the team in minutes tonight. Fizdale needs his fucking head checked.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 14, 2019, 10:28:48 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 14, 2019, 10:02:29 PM
Is Frank checking Luca?

lol, you better believe........
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 14, 2019, 10:29:19 PM
Frank wins the tip too...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 14, 2019, 10:29:43 PM
BBANG

thats what you do leader guy
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 14, 2019, 10:31:03 PM
ohhhhhhhhhh
Title: Wow
Post by: Kam on November 14, 2019, 10:32:19 PM
WTF is with this shit man.
Title: Now all of a sudden?
Post by: Kam on November 14, 2019, 10:33:45 PM
Frank starts shootin threes?  That's our late game offense? Get this clown show PG outta here.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 14, 2019, 10:33:59 PM
Do not like that fiz....do not like that...not DJr now...no...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 14, 2019, 10:36:24 PM
Clown show? Lol...u so silly. That's exactly what he's supposed to do. Was a good look.
Title: KP weak flop
Post by: Kam on November 14, 2019, 10:36:39 PM
floppin euro trash, you're not a #1 option my guy. Keep throwin bricks off the glass.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 14, 2019, 10:39:48 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on November 14, 2019, 10:36:24 PM
Clown show? Lol...u so silly. That's exactly what he's supposed to do. Was a good look.

Frank plays like he's the 5th grader that the adults let play with them and so he feels like he needs to pass all the time.  Then bizarrely grows confident enough to start hoisting threes when he hasn't even gazed at the hoop all night.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 14, 2019, 10:40:46 PM
fffff....whose man was curry and didn't box... ...Barrett?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 14, 2019, 10:41:38 PM
LEADER!!!
Title: Yes!
Post by: Kam on November 14, 2019, 10:41:47 PM
CLutch SHOT!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Merciless on November 14, 2019, 10:42:12 PM
Fucking play defense now
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 14, 2019, 10:42:19 PM
And shut up Reggie - we don't need no timeout there.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 14, 2019, 10:42:34 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on November 14, 2019, 10:40:46 PM
fffff....whose man was curry and didn't box... ...Barrett?

I saw Frank not box out if you mean that play where Curry owned us.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 14, 2019, 10:43:09 PM
nope..wasn't his man..he came in from the 3p line..Frank had already done his job
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 14, 2019, 10:43:42 PM
and our leader, leads, waves off Barrett and SPLASH
Title: OK now
Post by: Kam on November 14, 2019, 10:44:25 PM
Just throw the ball up in the air and this game is over
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 14, 2019, 10:44:56 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on November 14, 2019, 10:43:09 PM
nope..wasn't his man..he came in from the 3p line..Frank had already done his job

Nah that's not how you play team defense
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Merciless on November 14, 2019, 10:45:25 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 14, 2019, 10:41:38 PM
LEADER!!!

Don't make him out to be Bernard King...he giveth and he taketh away. Give him credit but his previous 2 shots were shit decisions.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 14, 2019, 10:46:07 PM
LOL..you way too funny, Kam, speaking of team defense..was there no help in front of the basket right now?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 14, 2019, 10:47:03 PM
Quote from: Merciless on November 14, 2019, 10:45:25 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 14, 2019, 10:41:38 PM
LEADER!!!

Don't make him out to be Bernard King...he giveth and he taketh away. Give him credit but his previous 2 shots were shit decisions.

And at least our "leader" hasn't stolen Bernard's number!
Title: Son!
Post by: Kam on November 14, 2019, 10:47:28 PM
Make these damn free throws
Title: EAT SHIT AND DIE PORZINGIS
Post by: Kam on November 14, 2019, 10:47:57 PM
Fuckin commie
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 14, 2019, 10:48:08 PM
Would be damn unusual for a Knick if he does!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 14, 2019, 10:48:43 PM
Good looking team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 14, 2019, 10:48:52 PM
Knicks of the Year
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 14, 2019, 10:49:32 PM
FRANK = G.O.A.T


*** nice change of heart by Fuckwhale to put him back in!

uh-oh.....game isn't over...will Luca throw up a ball that KP will tip in for a three?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 14, 2019, 10:50:58 PM
Hey - Frank got through a very trying patch

He's one of us.  And has his 6 mil for next year, so can relax.
Title: Can't say we didn't get our money's worth for a change tonight.
Post by: lesterluv on November 14, 2019, 10:51:52 PM
!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 14, 2019, 10:53:29 PM
Looked good tonight. Played very hard. Good to see.

Now about those other guys.

I've always been skeptical about KP. Never had a good sense of how (consistently) good he could become. But if I'm not mistaken, Doncic is a goddamn superstar. I love to watch him play. What a feel for the game!
Title: Re: Son!
Post by: Merciless on November 14, 2019, 10:53:45 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 14, 2019, 10:47:28 PM
Make these damn free throws

he came through - priceless experience and confidence for him right there
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Merciless on November 14, 2019, 10:55:24 PM
Quote from: elephant on November 14, 2019, 10:53:29 PM
Looked good tonight. Played very hard. Good to see.

Now about those other guys.

I've always been skeptical about KP. Never had a good sense of how (consistently) good he could become. But if I'm not mistaken, Doncic is a goddamn superstar. I love to watch him play. What a feel for the game!

Damn straight..he's the real deal...sort of reminds me of Drazen but on steroids
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 14, 2019, 10:57:29 PM
yup, yup, no doubt...special


*** and he didn't hurt us at the end for second straight game cause...


****Ok, well..just a little bit
Title: French Frank
Post by: chipstern on November 14, 2019, 10:58:54 PM
Sank his FTs.

Defensive focus.

PS: As per Morris...Randle.  Like their skill set and intensity.  Have a troubling tendency to pound the rock...ball movement stops...force into turnovers. Less so tonight, but need to keep the rock moving. Anyway, I'll take it...we sustained our intensity.

PPS: Luka is TERRFYING.  Frank did well to hold him to a triple double. 

PPPS: Hey, Fizz, can we compete two in a fucking G row.

PPPPS: Mitchell and Dennis gave us a big lift.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on November 14, 2019, 11:00:11 PM
We are the champions?
Title: Drazen?
Post by: chipstern on November 14, 2019, 11:03:25 PM
O

K

I was thinking of Larry Bird.

PS: Dotson gave us some good minutes.
Title: Re: Drazen?
Post by: Merciless on November 14, 2019, 11:14:43 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 14, 2019, 11:03:25 PM
O

K

I was thinking of Larry Bird.

PS: Dotson gave us some good minutes.

Yep i see that too but they've already made the Bird comparisons...maybe its the euro in him but I see Drazen in his game in a bigger body...sneaky, deft passer, dead eye shooter and penetrator

Agree on Dotson - was calling for him to get the rock with a minute left when Randle/Morris took some bad shots and made questionable decisions
Title: Luka
Post by: Kam on November 14, 2019, 11:14:59 PM
Larry Bird is my comp also.
Title: Took em down a notch
Post by: Kam on November 14, 2019, 11:18:08 PM
not for nothin, but Kristaps "i park my car up front" Porzingis, makes one all star team on our backs while hurt (we voted for him) and a week later he is threatening to go to Spain if he isn't dealt by the deadline?  ENTITLED SHIT.

He was the first option for the Knicks living the NY high life.  Now he isn't even the first option on his own team in red dead Texas.  Fuck him.  Entitled shit.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 15, 2019, 12:09:51 AM
Quote from: Kam on November 14, 2019, 09:40:37 PM
Quote from: Merciless on November 14, 2019, 09:28:27 PM
Morris is a chuck. His inconsistency and what appears to be "I'm gonna get mine" attitude is not suited well for this team. If he drew and kicked more the Knicks would be a lot better off.

He's the biggest black hole on the team.
Averaging 1.2 assist and 2.3 turnovers per 34 minutes.
13 assists over 11 games.

Contract year x 2.
Playing for his last contract.
So gonna get his.
I do like his toughness and aggression.
Hope Knox is taking notes (and elbows).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 15, 2019, 12:18:30 AM
Just gotta play the Mavs more.

Hey, who was ragging on Jr. Smith?
Has talent and still a big wildcard for us.

Fwiw the players genuinely seem to like Fizz.  And maybe they just played a complete game to save his job.

Knix could easily be 5-8 this year which wouldn't seem so horrid.

The Melo experiment just needs to last to Dec 15.  then we can make a deal with Poorland.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 15, 2019, 12:31:39 AM
Mavs with 20 more FT's than the Knickers.
Knix sure foul a lot.

Bird it is.
Just imagine if Luka reigns in some of the crazy slop from his game.
He could be an all-time great.

I laughed when Fizz said how close we were to the 8th seed.
But one more win and the Knix would be just 1/2 game out of 7th, and tied in the W column for 7th (with 7 other teams mind you).
East has 6 winning teams as of now.

Nets sure blow leads and play terrible 4Q defense.  And when Kyrie goes cold, the show stops.

Title: Re: Luka
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 15, 2019, 08:38:05 AM
Quote from: Kam on November 14, 2019, 11:14:59 PM
Larry Bird is my comp also.

He's a guard, so I like J KIDD WITH A J

Bird posted up - and defended bigs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on November 15, 2019, 09:12:57 AM
Kidd, especially a young one, was a blur with the ball. Not sure Doncic is. He might be sui generis.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 15, 2019, 09:33:35 AM
Doncic has the size and vision like Bird/LeBJ.
He also comes alive in the clutch like those fellers.

Bird & LeBJ are my points of comparison.
Doncic just has a knack and flair.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 15, 2019, 09:39:58 AM
A lot of nice plays from Jr. Smith.
I like when he got past his man, kept him on his hip and took his time deciding on a short shot or a lob.  That's smart stuff.
The lobs to Mitch were great.  The rebound-putback was sweet.

With Smith - RJB - Mitch we have three young guys with energy and quicks.  Transforms the team if those guys are active.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 15, 2019, 09:42:45 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 15, 2019, 09:33:35 AM
Doncic has the size and vision like Bird/LeBJ.
He also comes alive in the clutch like those fellers.

Bird & LeBJ are my points of comparison.
Doncic just has a knack and flair.

LeBron?  Too lofty.

Bird?  Different level.

Magic Light?  Maybe.

Earvin could have scored more if he wished.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 15, 2019, 09:49:20 AM
In honor of MAGIC - a quiz

Earvin Johnson shot 85% from the free throw line for his career -

but over his final 3 full seasons before getting sick, his cumulative mark was .902 (incredible)

NBA only -

There are EIGHT players all time who have shot 89% for their career - including 3 at 90+.

Name the eight

Two bonuses
 - who are the THREE over .900?
- what 2 active players sit 9th and 10th on all time list, just under .890?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 15, 2019, 09:50:47 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 15, 2019, 09:39:58 AM
A lot of nice plays from Jr. Smith.
I like when he got past his man, kept him on his hip and took his time deciding on a short shot or a lob.  That's smart stuff.
The lobs to Mitch were great.  The rebound-putback was sweet.

With Smith - RJB - Mitch we have three young guys with energy and quicks.  Transforms the team if those guys are active.

Yes, yes, yes. Would be great to see more of this. Penetrating, keeping the dribble alive — if he can keep doing that effectively, he's basically the only guy we have who can.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 15, 2019, 09:59:19 AM
Kidd, especially a young one, was a blur with the ball. Not sure Doncic is. He might be sui generis.


You are of course correct.  Kidd was quite an imperfect comp.  As would have been Michael Ray Richardson or the high school version of Lloyd Daniels (best I have ever seen)

I will go with Magic - and that makes KP Kareem - hah!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on November 15, 2019, 10:01:54 AM
Wow did Smith wake up out of his slumber, we should play the Mavs 82 games a season.  Dribble penetration is exactly what this team is missing, getting to the basket, easy layups for the bigs.  Smith did the thing tonite, that jumper is scary tho. please don't shoot that again in crunch time(LOL) still altho Morris shot went in, your telling me Fizz wouldn't call a timeout and set up a last minute play to win the game, just a dribble dribble dribble and a prayer from the 3 point line.  Fizz needs to go, he is not good on the players phyche.  Stick to a lineup and run it til they build continuity, and STOP THAT DAMN SWITCH DEFENSE. If Doncic didn't shoot so much, he would have seen, Zing and the other big had the mismatch alllllllllllll game because of that switch defense.  They could have blown us out if Doncic didn't shoot so much.  Lucky for us DOncic needs to get his numbers up.  Good game tho.  lastly Kenny Smith is bitter bcuz he ddn't get the coaching job and he sounds like it. Barkley been a Knick hater as long as I can remember.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 15, 2019, 10:05:16 AM
Jaq - Fizz was hurt at least twice this year by not having a  time out left late in the game.

Had it been the final possession, sure - then you use it.

Reggie is a peewee coach - and has never won his division.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on November 15, 2019, 10:06:14 AM
For that question, Mark Price and Rick Barry immediately pop into my mind.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 15, 2019, 10:30:17 AM
Nash
Scurry
Reggie
Redick
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 15, 2019, 10:35:34 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 14, 2019, 10:02:29 PM
Is Frank checking Luca?

https://twitter.com/nyknicks/status/1195182767220367360?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw (https://twitter.com/nyknicks/status/1195182767220367360?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 15, 2019, 10:41:05 AM
Price - 3rd, Barry - 7th, Nash - 2nd and Curry - 1st are correct.

Of the other 4, looking for three guards and a forward.  One is white.

Reggie Miller is 12th - .8877
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on November 15, 2019, 10:45:58 AM
I always remember Calvin Murphy being a great foul shooter.  Is he there?  And Bill Sharman was famously good for his time. 
Title: Just missed the list
Post by: Kam on November 15, 2019, 10:47:41 AM
Jeff Hornacek would be on that list if you took away his first two seasons.
Title: The Frog
Post by: bodiddley on November 15, 2019, 10:53:35 AM
Brogdon is over 90% FT for his career.
Led the league last year and so far this one too.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Pharoah on November 15, 2019, 10:58:27 AM
It's been a rarity in these dark days for the Garden to truly come to life the way it used to during those golden 90's era runs. But last night, New York's adopted son who spurned the Knicks and behaved like a primadonna activated the Knicks' sixth man like it was game 7 of the Eastern Conference Finals. The Knicks responded to the energy with one of their best wire to wire performances, a 106-103 victory over the Dallas Mavericks. More importantly, there were signs of adjustments and tweaks that come with everyone being put on notice and desperate for a win. The Knicks ran actual pick and rolls with some consistency. Julius Randle was mindful of sharing the basketball for chunks of game. And most importantly, both Dennis Smith Jr and Mitchell Robinson let everyone know that they're back with big performances. Let's take a victory lap fam...

Ntilikina: It was three quarters of frustration for Frank Ntilikina, as he struggled with foul trouble most of the night. But in the fourth quarter with five fouls, there was Frank playing elite, yes ELITE defense in a tough contested game. Ntilikina showed signs of life from the very beginning, knocking down a three and then blocking Porzingis but having it taken away by a dubious whistle.

That became the story of his night, a pair of tough calls early on led to some pressing and frustrating defensive choices later on which left Frank glued to the bench. But he had a huge bounce back in the fourth quarter; diving and fighting for loose balls, taking jumpers when he had space and knocking down the game clinching free throws. Ntilikina showed grit and confidence in that fourth quarter that hopefully carries over to games when he's not in foul trouble.

Frank only got 18 minutes and went 1/4 for 5 points, 2 assists, 3 boards and a steal. His fourth quarter was enough to forget about the box score and foul woes though as his potential shined bright in the most important moments of the game.

Barrett: RJ Barrett had a fairly quiet game as a number of other Knicks shined. Barrett shot 3/10 and 0/2 from three while contributing 8 points, 2 assists to 4 TO's and 7 boards. He never really got into a good rhythm with the Mavericks forcing him to pull up on some drives and turn it over on others. The jumper wasn't as crisp as last game and that made it easier for defenders to fall back and meet him on his entry attempts into the paint.

Here's the beauty of it though, Barrett found a way to contribute with some nice rebounds and solid defensive play. He also knocked down both of his free throws in this one which is a small but important victory. The rookie wasn't all that bad considering this game was a bit of a struggle for him. You can live with nights like this from one of the most promising rookies of the season so far.

Morris: Marcus Morris was frustratingly bad in the first half but absolutely exploded offensively in the second half. This wasn't nearly his best performance, as Morris did more pressing for offense instead of letting the game flow dictate when to attack. But Mook has a bit of that JR magic, where you're complaining about the shot selection right up until the point the ball goes through the hoop to silence you. He went from 1/7 early to 7/19 on the night including a crucial 5/7 from three point land.

This meant 20 and 5 on the night for Morris including an isolation three pointer at the top of the key with the game tied and the 13 seconds left in the game. Marcus Morris was far from perfect, but he stepped up when it mattered.

Randle: Ever heard of the KISS principle? Keep it simple stupid. They should put that ish on a bracelet and make Julius Randle wear it like the old WWJD fad. Randle had himself one of his better performances and it came together by doing less with the ball in his hands and more without it. This was especially true in the first half where the big man shared the rock but was rewarded by his teammates with better positioning to attack when he got it back.

Here's what's important about those first half sets where he moved the ball, everyone seemed a bit elevated by it. The only exception was Morris who continued to isolate and look for his rhythm. But you can live with one ISO guy instead of two out there and Randle comfortably led the team in field goals after his first run despite the passing. The second half, he started to press again but his energy didn't falter. That led to Randle turning it over more, forcing a few but also creating second opportunities on the offensive glass in crunch time.

Randle wound up with 17 points, 10 boards and 3 assists to 6 TO's. He shot 8/18 and went just 1/5 from three. The blemishes are still there. He's still looking for his three ball and turning it over too much. But on a night where he hustled and at least made effort to adjust his game, the blemishes weren't quite as glaring.

Gibson: Taj Gibson only got 15 minutes in spite of starting due to a combination of foul trouble and Mitch needing to be out there. Taj was solid but never really got a great flow going in the action. He wound up with 4 points, 6 boards and 2 assists to 1 TO off 2/4 from the field. Gibson continued to be reliable in there and I caught him yelling at defenders from when they let up on a play. I really enjoy his presence on the Knicks roster.

Smith: Dennis Smith Jr's athleticism looks all the way back and last night, it made everything easier for the third year PG. Perhaps even more important, Smith knocked down a pair of three balls in his first turn off the bench and that seemed to activate his confidence. From there we got Smith attacking the defense beautifully in transition situations and from the half-court, we got actual Pick and Roll action with Mitchell Robinson as the roll man.

Smith spent 30 minutes building a beauty of a stat line with 13 points, 8 assists to 2 TO's and 6 boards. He closed the first quarter on an ugly sequence but was otherwise a positive out there virtually every time. It's notable that he looked much better with Portis and Mitch then he did later in the game with Morris and Randle. That's not to say he was bad, he just didn't get the ball in his hands as much when the Knicks big FA's were out there.

This was much closer to the Smith that I hoped to see out of the offseason. It's not there yet though, he can still be even better. Smith went 5/12 from the field and that should get more efficient as he gets more comfortable in the lane with traffic around him. His putback dunk in the third showed that he can play above damn near everyone on the court. He also gives the Knicks an incredibly dynamic 1-2 punch with Frank's defense and ball movement next to Smith's downhill attack at breakneck pace. I'd like to see both guys out there together if Smith keeps this up.

Dot: It was a struggle sessions from three for Damyean Dotson and yet he held down the back-up SG position without the three's falling. Dot played 23 minutes, going 3/8 from the field and just 1/5 from three to tally 7 points. But he did everything and I mean everything else well. Dotson added 3 assists, 2 boards and 3 steals to the 7 points. He contributed solid defense, good off ball movement and willful passing that helped everything the Knicks wanted to do.

That said, there are spells where Dot kind of goes invisible. He's as reliant on ball movement as anyone on the team and when isolations start piling up, his intangibles lose their importance. With the Knicks still figuring things out, his game may come and go with how the top guys decide to play on a given night.

Knox: Kevin Knox only played 15 minutes, more a victim of circumstance than poor play. Other wings were providing skills that Knox is still working on...namely, impact defense. At his best Knox won't hurt you defensively but standout plays are a rarity. With other guys providing offense, the sophomore got fewer chances and minutes. Knox put up 6 points and 1 boards on 2/3 from the field and 1/2 from three. But he's an important prospect, so let's grab a highlight anyway...

My favorite play from Knox came on the wing and noticing that Tim Hardaway was guarding him. Familiarity might have played a role but Knox eagerly gestured for the ball. The moment the 20 year old got the ball, he attacked off the dribble and drew free throws. Those snap decisions will work on more than just subpar former Knicks that he knows he can blow by. I want more of that, he's got potential to earn a lot of free throws turning his three point threat into blow by drives.

Portis: Bobby Portis became the stretch 4 next to Mitchell Robinson off the bench. This had a pair of important effects. First and foremost, Mitch's presence offset the defensive nightmares that we've had watching Bobby try but struggle. Second, Mitch's rim running gravity gave Crazy Eyes Jr a ton of space to work with. Portis went 4/8 from the field and 2/3 from three for 10 points and 5 boards in 17 minutes.

That 15-20 minutes range is the sweet spot for Portis. It's not so long that he can try to do too much offensively or be overly exposed defensively. But it's enough time for him to knock down a corner three and find that weird floater he does so effectively (not since the Rolo hook have I seen such an effective but ugly go-to move).

Robinson: I can't say enough for the impact that Mitchell Robinson had on this game and the rotation as a whole. Robinson was back with a vengeance, even inviting real contact on his screens instead of slipping them. The young shot blocker always rim runs with a vengeance, but last night saw more pick and roll situations for the offense...so he was also flying into the lane a lot more often. This doesn't just mean lob opportunities, it puts Mitch into better position for offensive boards and putbacks.

So the most promising young prospect of last season went 7/8 from the field for 16 points, 8 boards and a block in just 22 minutes. The kid was a monster on both ends. For Mitch, the only thing holding him back was the whistle. Robinson fouled out in those 22 minutes, but was a game changer in this one. Staggering his defensive impact with Frank's worked well last night and foul trouble meant we didn't get much of the two defensive stalwarts together.

I mention that because Frank and Mitch have both had games where they play elite level defense. Add in that RJ Barrett has been very good in his own right and the Knicks have three players 21 or younger that are showing major defensive upside. Improved jumpers would also make their games incredibly complimentary with each other while opening up room for Dennis Smith and Kevin Knox to join them (those two might struggle defensively but they'd have plenty of cover). One can only hope...

Fizdale: I give David Fizdale a lot of crap when the team underperforms, but he did a solid job in this one. Fiz had to contend with his best three defenders in foul trouble all night but having 2 PG's and an actual rim protector meant much more balance in the rotation. He also trusted Frank and Mitch when they were at 4 and 5 fouls in the third and fourth respectively. That sort of trust in players will translate.

Playing Smith Jr a bit too much not to hurt the team last game also paid dividends this game. DSJ found his athleticism last game and found his rhythm somewhat in this one. Similarly, Fizdale settled on one back-up two guard and Dotson rewarded him with a productive all around game that complimented the rest of the players around him. Implementing more pick and rolls is less a stroke of genius and more of a "why weren't we always doing this?" But credit to the Knicks finally running those too.

This isn't vindication though. The Knicks have gotten up for big rivals before and the Garden wasn't about to let the Knicks sleepwalk again. The big question is whether the Knicks can keep this level of effort up for every night out. That consistency is on the coach to instill and with his ass in the hot seat, there's no more time for excuses whether you think they're justified or not. I do have one pet peeve that carried last night, Fizdale let Doncic pick on the zone defense a little too long in the second half. He would put Frank out there to plug the hole in time for the Knicks to win, but he was flirting with another "momentum swung too far to recover" moment. But this was a step in the right direction for sure.

One last thing… Congrats to Carmelo Anthony on getting picked up by the Blazers. He deserves to go out on his own terms and I hope rocking with Dame and CJ will bring out the best of him for this last chapter! On a night where we boo'ed a man who couldn't take the heat and asked to leave; the guy who refused to leave because he wanted to win with US got another opportunity. I couldn't think of anything more poetic or sweet.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 15, 2019, 11:13:24 AM
Minimum is 1200 free throws to qualify - so nyet on Bogdon

Calvin Murphy is eighth

Looking for 2 more guards and one forward

One of the players has NY ties.  One is European.

The active players for bonus at 9 and ten are also guards

Sharman was a good call - 14th at .8831
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 15, 2019, 11:23:29 AM
Edit -

REDICK, at #10, has been mentioned

Down to one active guard at #9.
And looking for (all retired) a forward - #4 and a guard - #5 overall, plus another guard at 6
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 15, 2019, 11:25:23 AM
Sorry to have this question around your post, Pharaoh - nice work.

I think your comment on Randle and not handling the ball so much has a lot to do with Smith Jr being in the game.

Yeah, I will camp on the block if I think I will benefit from a drive, draw, dish.  And I will handle the ball less if I trust the guy handling the ball.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 15, 2019, 11:49:34 AM
Calderon, Stockton, Korver, Nance Sr. might be the forward.

Beautiful recap, Pharoah

I like the two units as constructed, but if were gonna keep shuffling it I wouldn’t mind seeing these sets

Mitch Taj
Portis Randle
Morris Knox
Dotson Barrett
DSJ Frank

The first group puts 3 perimeter threats with the Mitch-DSJ pick and roll while also putting 3 good defenders in Mitch, Morris, and Dot plus a rebounder in Portis around DSJ on D.

The second group puts our two most technical defenders in Frank and Taj with our three best open floor athletes. It also lets Taj direct those athletes to better places in half court sets so Frank gets to look at better choices.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 15, 2019, 11:56:55 AM
Korver is eighteenth - .8769

Calderon is short of 1200 tries but comes in at .873 anyway
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 15, 2019, 01:47:03 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 15, 2019, 11:25:23 AM
Sorry to have this question around your post, Pharaoh - nice work.

I think your comment on Randle and not handling the ball so much has a lot to do with Smith Jr being in the game.

Yeah, I will camp on the block if I think I will benefit from a drive, draw, dish.  And I will handle the ball less if I trust the guy handling the ball.

Exactly.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 15, 2019, 01:52:11 PM
Two significant moments in the last week with Frank and....KP.

The game in Dallas when he tried to dunk over KP. It's didn't work, he got fouled (perhaps), but it was FIERCE.

Same thing last night when he took the charge from a barreling KP. Both involved a certain level of brazen assertiveness. We saw it in a couple of other places last night. Can that kind of fire ever be a more consistent part of his game?

Dunno.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 15, 2019, 02:20:23 PM
FT % question

Thought you guys would get

Billups and Ray Allen

Tough one was Peja Stojakovic

And Lillard comes in at 9, with Redick 10.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 15, 2019, 02:27:49 PM
Can he get there while he still has all his springs? He’s young, but time waits for no man. He needs to do next summer whatever Doncic did for his base this summer. That would help Frank a whole lot. As for now he can do just about everything you want a guard to to. I want to see as many as possible executed more consistently in tighter and shorter windows on O and better selectivity on D. That’s possible within this season and make him a steal next year and possibly a long term mainstay. If he gets almost halfway there it will be a very good season for Frank.

Dennis getting his mojo back helps everyone. He may be ready in passing through loss to take on more aspects of a complete point guard in terms of emotional connection and leadership which may be a product of him simply needing to play the game right now. It would be good if he grew a groove.

We would have had a hard time beating Dallas without even one of our bigs.

We didn’t use Ellington, Payton, Iggy, Bullock, and Trier.

We should investigate the smalls for bigs market, such as it is.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 15, 2019, 02:29:37 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 15, 2019, 02:20:23 PM
FT % question

Thought you guys would get

Billups and Ray Allen

Tough one was Peja Stojakovic

And Lillard comes in at 9, with Redick 10.

Nice. They all played in a time I really enjoyed basketball.

Apparently Ray and KG we’re going to come back and play with Durant if he’d gone to Boston in 2016.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 15, 2019, 02:44:35 PM
Quote from: elephant on November 15, 2019, 01:52:11 PM
Two significant moments in the last week with Frank and....KP.
FIERCE.
We saw it in a couple of other places last night.
Can that kind of fire ever be a more consistent part of his game?

Dunno.

I liked when he went to the floor and grabbed the ball from Doncic.  Frank has heart.  But he displayed that a year back also, stepping over LeBron after LeBron backhandedly dissed Frank while complimenting DSJ.  Kid has heart.  I keep hoping he acquires an offensive game.  He can't be a non-scoring PG, non-driving, non free throw getting, non-assisting non entity.  He's like a Larry Brown PG just moving the ball along -- except I think Larry would score more points right now.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 15, 2019, 03:19:26 PM
Trivia:

Who are the Top 5 in FT% as a Knick?
(ie only counting their Knick careers/Knick stats)

I chose an arbitrary cut-off of 50 FTA, just to eliminate extremely small sample guys).

Title: Brogdon
Post by: Kam on November 15, 2019, 03:30:03 PM
Can't re-iterate what a supreme miscalculation it was to let Malcolm Brogdon get away in restricted free agency.

Your Plan B after not being able to get KD or Kyrie or AD should've been.... Giannis.

What better way to tempt Giannis than to have Mr. Brogdon in the fold.

MB has the look of a Knick-killer for years to come.

If we had flipped those Dallas #1s for Brogdon and made HIM our marquee FA signing....

We wouldn't've have needed Payton (PG) or Ellington (3pt shooting)   

So for the $16 mil we paid those two, we could've paid Malcolm a few million more and be SET at the PG position.

Now we are still searching ...  all it would've taken was a couple a picks at most.
Title: Pharoah
Post by: chipstern on November 15, 2019, 03:46:43 PM
You enjoy elite status as my third favorite Pharoah

[Ramses and Pharoah Sanders]

Excellent analysis and synopsis as always. 

Again, was SO VERY HAPPY for Dennis last night, which marked the first game where he not only had his hoofs but was not overthinking things; his penetration, his ability to get to the rack and as one poster noted (BoA-ConStricter?) keep the defender on his hip, opened opportunities up for his own finishes and gorgeous reads and lobs to Mitchell.  This was the first game where he wasn't over-thinking things, not giving up his pass too soon, looking to his strengths, not just as an offensive facilitator, but as an offensive creator.  Again, very proud, very happy for the kid.  Dennis and Mitch gave us not just a presence but an energy. 

Likewise Frank finding his tenacious inner dog in the final stanza with five fucking fouls, and RJ finding ways to contribute when the fruit wasn't falling.  As for his overall resume and work in progress status, he is STILL ONLY 21.  Many point to his nascent offensive game, but Charlie Ward anyone.  The manner in which Frank challenged KP (with whom he is clearly a homie) and Luka was impressive.  A suicide mission dunking or blocking a dunk?  Maybe, but a message, 

How many of you recall how Charlie used to make a couple of those plays a game, and towards the final furlongs of his run as a Knick, turned into a pretty effective three point shooter. 

There was a game, where Shaq made a drive towards the baseline, Charlie held his ground, and O'Neal simply obliterated him, like something that would happen to Wile E. Coyote.  Ward did not even flinch, was driven back a few yards behind the baseline, and GOT THE CALL.  Shooting percentages?  Offensive acumen?  That's a cat you want on your team. 

Worth noting that Frank and Dennis were the #8 and #9 draft picks.  And that Frank is still maturing into his body.  And yes, like Luka, he needs to work on this trunk, his lower body, which would certainly facilitate his drives to the hoop, to be able to take a bump, give a bump AND FINISH. 

Also...redundant, but bears repeating...

RJ [19]
Knox [20]
Frank [21]
Mitchell [21]
Dennis [21]
Trier [23]
Portis [24]
Randle [25]
Dotson [25]
Peyton [25]


Brazdeikis [20]
Rabb [22]
Allen [26]
Bullock [28]

Oh, and is it just me or did anyone else notice how much smarter Fizz looked [relatively speaking] being able to add Mitchell and Dennis to his rotations. 

And how much smarter Randle looked [relatively speaking] not feeling compelled to force the issue and play hero ball.  Enough with the treys for a nonce.  That thunder butt backdown of KP was precious.  Fizz, take Julius out to dinner, ply him with a couple of glasses of wine, then take him back to your crib to watch film of Anthony Mason. 

Agree with everyone about the crowd, which was STUNNING in their intensity. 

Man alive do Knicks fans want to cheer something. 

Charlotte on the 'morrow a real gut check.  These Knicks tend to play DOWN to their opponents, not that either the Bulls nor the Cav are without some really talented players (and good coaches). 

How much of that is on Fizz, how much of that is on the players, begging the question, WHO ARE WE?   

These Knicks need to get the crowd into the game straightaway, and keep them in the game.  Other teams will have runs, other teams will have more talent, but we have to make things...unpleasant for fans coming on to our floor. 

We're played some very competitive games, and we've played some stinkers, where you could just see the air rushing out of the balloon. 

Some of that is on Fizz figuring out who he has, what his rotations are. 

Some of that is on cats pounding the rock, trying to play hero ball, settling for quick fucking threes, not maximizing movement and creating easier opportunities. 

Some of that is on injuries [again, Fizz looked 33% smarter being able to look down the bench and see Mitchell and Dennis].

PS: Finally, I am sure everyone is wondering which Elfrid Peyton is coming back, and can he stay healthy,  Me?  I am wondering what is up with Kadeem Allen?  Last year he showed a genuine aptitude for getting into the lane and creating off the dribble, often in the form of those outdated, analytical-wanting mid-range jumpers.  Somewhere, Earl Monroe is weeping.  Get well soon Kadeem...OPPORTUNITY KNOCKS. 

PPS: Let's see of Fizz can engender some snark among the troops against the Hornets. 
Title: Hornets
Post by: Kam on November 15, 2019, 04:01:38 PM
At least we will be rested and the struggling Hornets will be on the back end of a back-2-back.

Terry Rozier   Malik Monk   
Devonte' Graham   Dwayne Bacon
Miles Bridges   Nicolas Batum
PJ Washington   Marvin Williams   
Cody Zeller        Bismack Biyombo



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 15, 2019, 04:24:56 PM
Our Frontline should dominate theirs

Mitchell > Zeller
Randle > Washington
Morris > Bridges

They are 4-7 and of their wins
- they have a 1 pt win at home vs Chicago,
- they beat Sacramento and Golden State on the road
- have a 2pt win at home over Indiana

They are just a mediocre squad, on the road, on a b2b, and we should ride the momentum and rest for a victory at home


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 15, 2019, 04:28:45 PM
Cant let Monk go all Coby White on us
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 15, 2019, 04:32:56 PM
Zeller having his best season

Seems the 4-56 deal was wise
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Merciless on November 15, 2019, 04:37:05 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 15, 2019, 03:19:26 PM
Trivia:

Who are the Top 5 in FT% as a Knick?
(ie only counting their Knick careers/Knick stats)

I chose an arbitrary cut-off of 50 FTA, just to eliminate extremely small sample guys).

Completely off my sleeve... I'd say Clyde, Kiki vandeweghe, Allan Houston, Bradley, Trent Tucker?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 15, 2019, 04:47:57 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 15, 2019, 04:28:45 PM
Cant let Monk go all Coby White on us

Quick guards kill us.   Frank is smart but not terribly fast, and he often gets switched off the opposing guard anyway.  We need Mitchell not in foul trouble but in the game doing his thing altering shots in the paint.  And when the penetrating guard gets past the perimeter defense due to a pick and then fakes Mitch in the air on a shot fake to do a pass to the picker then we need Randle switching over to cover that secondary action and Morris switching to gaurd either Mitchell or Randle's man.   This kind of defense is possible regardless of talent. But it takes coaching and coordination and do we have faith Fizdale can coach up this type of defense?

That's why we are mediocre too.  We have some talent.  Fizdale has to implement a style or system on offense or on defense. So far i see nothing but random basketball.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 15, 2019, 05:23:50 PM
Quote from: Merciless on November 15, 2019, 04:37:05 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 15, 2019, 03:19:26 PM
Trivia:

Who are the Top 5 in FT% as a Knick?
(ie only counting their Knick careers/Knick stats)

I chose an arbitrary cut-off of 50 FTA, just to eliminate extremely small sample guys).

Completely off my sleeve... I'd say Clyde, Kiki vandeweghe, Allan Houston, Bradley, Trent Tucker?

Only Kiki, tied for 2nd best at 88.6%

Al Houston  8th best 87.2%
Dollar Bill  17th 84.0%

Somebody named Sid Tanenbaum 15th best 84.1% from back in 1949.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 15, 2019, 06:00:15 PM
Great Knick FT shooters? How about Pablo Prigioni and Rolando Blackman
Title: Brogdon
Post by: chipstern on November 15, 2019, 08:32:27 PM
Over 11 games?  Compared to 82 games in 2019-2020. 

Not much of a sample, but interesting. 

Three Point Shooting down from .426 to .327. 

FG% down from .505 to .469. 

However...

Rebounding is up from 4.5 to 5.2.

Steals from 0.7 to 1.1

And not only has his overall scoring jumped from 15.6 to 20.7, but his assists have pole vaulted from 3.2 to 8.5.

And as has been addressed, FT shooting off the charts: MB has hit 48-of-49...YIKES. 

Perhaps MB and RJ can have a slumber party. 

Was taken aback by how cheaply Indy got him.  What? Wes Matthews, a future #1, some #2 picks. 

So yes, Kam, point taken, or rather, point not taken. 

Your inspired Conley trade was, well...NOT. 

But considering we had all of this cap space, a pair of future #1 picks from Dallas [KP] and a pair of future #2 picks from the Hornets [Hernan-Gomez], seems perfectly reasonable to lament spilt milk. 

In terms of the Knicks, cough, thought process?

We just gave up our franchise player for PG Dennis Smith, a pair of #1 picks and cap space. 

We still have Frank Ntilikina.   

We just drafted RJ Barrett with the #3 pick. 

We still have Damyean Dotson and Alonzo Trier. 

On the other hand, MB is a gifted combo guard with a muscular 6'5" frame, an excellent all around game on both ends of floor, and at 4 years for $20-25 million per, not over the top in terms of modern contracts. 

So, yes, a missed opportunity. 
Title: Speaking Of Missed Opportunities
Post by: chipstern on November 15, 2019, 08:42:03 PM
All the time invested in re-configuring Mudiay?

Then we let him walk?  Signs a one year make good with Utah for $1.7 million. 

Looking really good tonight, going strong to the rack, and scoring.  Another big, muscular 6'5" combo guard.

Not like we couldn't use that.

Coach Synder praises his ability to get to spots, create scoring, and...DEFENSE.  So he is still growing. 

Oh, well...
Title: Re: Speaking Of Missed Opportunities
Post by: Kam on November 15, 2019, 09:12:45 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 15, 2019, 08:42:03 PM
All the time invested in re-configuring Mudiay?

Then we let him walk?  Signs a one year make good with Utah for $1.7 million. 

Oh, well...

On that topic:

Frank's rookie year when he was actually healthy was also a missed opportunity Chip.

We spent all that time on Trey Burke and Emmanuel Mudiay.

And that is AFTER first trotting out Ramon Sessions and later Jarrett Jack.

Frank was a bystander as the Knicks trotted out reclamation PG after PG as Frank dealt with it.

All those minutes that went to Jarrett Jack i understand.... he was a good vet role model ...

But what we did to Frank's confidence by not even letting him lead in Westchester for goodness sakes....

Just an eff up all along.   
Title: Frank used to have confidence
Post by: Kam on November 15, 2019, 09:20:23 PM
This is a Knicks box score from two years ago... Frank first season.

 Look at his statline
https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400974893 (https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400974893)

10pts 7 assists on 7 shots in 24 minutes

There are more box scores like this before we brought in Burke and Mud. 
Like this one:

https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400975265 (https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400975265)

9pts 11 assists on 11 shots in 32 minutes


No he wasn't an offensive monster, BUT he was effective and productive.


Nowadays he's playing big minutes and putting up 4 shots a game with two-three assists.


He got lobotomized.
Title: Frank
Post by: chipstern on November 15, 2019, 09:41:53 PM
Yes, between Hornacek's Quixotic commitment to JJ (in between pissing off Noah and Porzingis), all the time expended on Burke and Mudiay, AND LEAVE US NOT FORGET A HOST OF INJURIES, I would submit that while Frank's growth curve was deferred, it was not necessarily derailed. 

Lobotomized?

Inhale. 

Exhale. 

He is only 21, is maturing into his body, and having come through a dispiriting turnaround in personnel, is starting to find his way. 

I thought his play in the fourth quarter last night was GUTSY.  And in both games against Dallas, he played with a snarky attitude. 

Still searching for consistency, but I think at some point we are going to see Frank and Dennis sharing the backcourt for stretches, likely with RJ at SF. 

As for Brogdon, I poked around a bit, and it would appear that Indiana worked diligently to complete their deal with Milwaukee in order to preclude Malcolm showing up on the radar of other teams, such as the Knicks. 

So, we need to move on. 

Want to have a fun debate.

What about the Luka for Trae exchange between Atlanta and Dallas.  Winners?  Losers?  Even Steven? 

Trae is pretty impressive, too.  Phoenix coach Monty Williams was talking about how you literally have to pick up Trae at half court, and he sure fried our onions when we played him. 

And with the #10 pick Dallas conveyed to the Hawks in 2019 to complete the transaction, Atlanta picked Cam Reddish. 
Title: Losers
Post by: Kam on November 15, 2019, 10:01:39 PM
Phx for taking Ayton instead of Doncic or Young.
Sac for taking Bagley instead of Doncic or Young.
Title: Re: Frank
Post by: Kam on November 15, 2019, 10:03:43 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 15, 2019, 09:41:53 PM

Want to have a fun debate.

What about the Luka for Trae exchange between Atlanta and Dallas.  Winners?  Losers?  Even Steven? 


Doncic vs Trae is like the new wave LeBron vs Steph
Title: Trae Bien
Post by: chipstern on November 15, 2019, 11:08:00 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 15, 2019, 10:03:43 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 15, 2019, 09:41:53 PM

Want to have a fun debate.

What about the Luka for Trae exchange between Atlanta and Dallas.  Winners?  Losers?  Even Steven? 


Doncic vs Trae is like the new wave LeBron vs Steph

Trae had a rough start but really came on the second half of last year. 

I really like his game.  Not just a crazy shooter, but great court vision.  And he exudes confidence. 

As for Ayton and Bagley?

Cats just CANNOT Help THEMSELVES. 

Are always enraptured with BIGS. 

I wasn't sure about Trae (I got religion), but I was Cuckoo For Cocoa Puffs about Doncic. 

They both take crazy shots, but hey, don't want to geld them...their attitudes are contagious. 

Rap on Trade coming out, like among Knicks personnel (moot point, as we had no shot at him at #9), was that there were concerns about his size and defense. 

Me?

Tough to choose, love them both, but Luka has that 6'7" body, and is so fucking strong, not just crafty. 

PS: Mudiay was playing well tonight, then Ja Morant came up court and froze him in his feet with a behind the back spin move that simply delicious.  Loves me some RJ, but if we had the #2, oh, well...
Title: Morant
Post by: Kam on November 15, 2019, 11:19:19 PM
Morant is the real deal.

Part of me questions if Zion will ever be a guy that plays 65+  games a year consistently and that Morant should've gone 1
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 15, 2019, 11:43:32 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 15, 2019, 04:28:45 PM
Cant let Monk go all Coby White on us

Monk hit the game winning three vs Detroit
Title: Re: Morant
Post by: chipstern on November 15, 2019, 11:50:31 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 15, 2019, 11:19:19 PM
Morant is the real deal.

Part of me questions if Zion will ever be a guy that plays 65+  games a year consistently and that Morant should've gone 1

Well.

So Pelicans, with Holiday AND Ball should've picked Ja? 

Zion will be just fine. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 16, 2019, 01:20:04 AM
Brogdon on back watch as he pulled out of a loss against the Rockets.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 16, 2019, 02:45:18 AM
Quote from: Kam on November 15, 2019, 06:00:15 PM
Great Knick FT shooters? How about Pablo Prigioni and Rolando Blackman

Derrick Rose 6th 87.4%
Pig is 7th 87.3%
AH 8th 87.2%
You can see the differences tend to be fairly small.
I also thought Prigioni would be Top 5.

5 Knicks shot between 88% - 89% on FT's.
Only have one of the Top 5 so far: Kiki #3 88.6%

The other 4 were all role players.
Three from this decade and one from back around the Bill Cartwright era.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 16, 2019, 02:52:56 AM
Brogdon just looks like a winner to me.  A heady player who can fit on any team.  Pretty substantial salary, but I'd take the Frog over Randle ...
Don't miss Morant's highlights v. Memf.  Just wow.  Was feeling it.


Looks like a career game for Monk.
3 of his buckets were coast to coast drives.
Game winner came with 1 sec left, after Rose drove and kicked the ball out to the 1st row.
That'll be a big confidence boost for Monk who saw Lamb steal his bacon last year and 2nd rounder Devonte Graham do it again this year.

Though I wonder if Monk was guarding Galloway who went off for 32 points including 7-11 on 3's.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 16, 2019, 07:08:31 AM
Knick FT % list here (https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=combined&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&season_start=1&season_end=-1&lg_id=NBA&age_min=0&age_max=99&is_playoffs=N&height_min=0&height_max=99&franch_id=NYK&birth_country_is=Y&as_comp=gt&as_val=0&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=mp_per_g_req&c1stat=ft_pct&c1comp=gt&c1val=80&c2stat=g&c2comp=gt&c2val=45&order_by=ft_pct)

9.   Gallo  85.9%
10. Mike Newlin 85.5%

I was a bit surprised that:
Melo was 83.0%
Kanter 83.3%

I accidentally stumbled upon this trivia Q:
Which Knick had the most FT Attempts while shooting 80% or better on FT's?

Interestingly, the 5 of the Top 7 are all from the old days.

Another way to frame the question would be:
Only 6 Knicks have shot more than 2,000 FTS's and made them at an 80% + rate.  Name them.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on November 16, 2019, 10:20:26 AM
5 old timey good FT shooters

WAG

Dollar Bill
Clyde
Earl da
Fall Back Baby
Bernard


Interesting story about a crappy FT shooter



https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/celtics/2019/11/15/more-than-years-later-celtics-great-bill-russell-finally-accepts-his-hall-fame-ring/Ns13MPvfsEJwHl06QMdLnN/story.html (https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/celtics/2019/11/15/more-than-years-later-celtics-great-bill-russell-finally-accepts-his-hall-fame-ring/Ns13MPvfsEJwHl06QMdLnN/story.html)

SPRINGFIELD, Mass. — Bill Russell finally accepted his Basketball Hall of Fame ring.

The 11-time NBA champion, five-time MVP, Olympic gold medalist and two-time NCAA champ said on Twitter on Friday that he was presented with his Hall of Fame ring in a private ceremony.

The 85-year-old Celtics great didn’t attend the induction ceremony in 1975. He said he didn’t deserve to be the first black player inducted, tweeting: “I felt others before me should have that honor.”

His tweet mentions Chuck Cooper, who in 1950 was the first African-American player drafted by the NBA and who was inducted this year.

50 years after his retriement he still remains a world champion. a truly amazing guy.

But he couldn't hit his FT .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 16, 2019, 11:23:32 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on November 16, 2019, 10:20:26 AM
5 old timey good FT shooters
Dollar Bill
Clyde
Earl da
Fall Back Baby
Bernard.

Pearl     6th 2,110 FTA's (82.1%)
Bradley #7  1,623 FTA's (84.O%)

3 of the top 5 are real oldtimers -- we're talking pre-Civil Rights Act, Segregation USA Days.

#2 on the list had 2,736 FTA's & 82.5% but is a guy I know nothing about.  Vaguely know the name.
Title: Kristaps Postinkus
Post by: Kam on November 16, 2019, 12:04:39 PM
 @KevinOConnorNBA
Why does Rick Carlisle waste so many plays posting up Kristaps Porzingis?
Here's the truth: Porzingis stinks on the post. And they are losing games because of those wasted plays.
Maybe someday it'll be a strength but not now. KP's an elite shooter for his size. Do more of that.


@TommyBeer
during his last full season, in 2016-17, Porzingis was the only player in the league to attempt more than 100 FG's off post-ups and shot below 37% on those attempts.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 16, 2019, 12:11:53 PM
The Pat Bev —> Lou Williams model may work for us with Frank and Dennis. Not that our pups are on that level, but they are to one another similar to how Pat is to Lou.

Also Fizz fucking sucks.

The Knicks are going to get stomped by the Hornets.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on November 16, 2019, 12:39:01 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 16, 2019, 11:23:32 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on November 16, 2019, 10:20:26 AM
5 old timey good FT shooters
Dollar Bill
Clyde
Earl da
Fall Back Baby
Bernard.

Pearl     6th 2,110 FTA's (82.1%)
Bradley #7  1,623 FTA's (84.O%)

3 of the top 5 are real oldtimers -- we're talking pre-Civil Rights Act, Segregation USA Days.

#2 on the list had 2,736 FTA's & 82.5% but is a guy I know nothing about.  Vaguely know the name.

About the only real old-timey (early 60s) Knicks I can think of who were pretty good and I saw play were Richie Guerin and Willie Naulls.

 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 16, 2019, 01:30:38 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 16, 2019, 12:11:53 PM

Also Fizz fucking sucks.


We can't let the Joy and Glory of the Mavs game overshadow this essential truth — and he really makes it worse every time he opens up that pie hole:

"I don't hear anybody b*tching about Houston isolating, they hold the ball the whole game but they score 1,000 points"

https://twitter.com/sny_knicks/status/1195122163600297986 (https://twitter.com/sny_knicks/status/1195122163600297986)


*** Harden anyone?....and it's still a f'ing unwatchable horror no matter how many f'ing points they score . #DisgracingTheGame #FU-D'Antoni #Can'tWaitForTheNextChoke
Title: Fizz MUST Go [A Minority Opinion]
Post by: chipstern on November 16, 2019, 02:10:34 PM
https://basketballherald.com/2019/10/29/knicks-targeting-mark-jackson-to-potentially-replace-david-fizdale/ (https://basketballherald.com/2019/10/29/knicks-targeting-mark-jackson-to-potentially-replace-david-fizdale/)

First of all, the notion that Jackson should have been the first choice is a self-perpetuating sentimental narrative. Some would point to Budholzer. My first choice would have been Monty Williams.

Secondly, if there is going to be a move, and Jackson is proffered the gig, taking it in mid-season would be insanity on Jackson's part, let alone the Knicks, as he'd be perceived, surely by me anyway, as a turncoat in the coaching profession, undermining a fellow professional.

Thirdly, what's the point of taking over in mid-stream without a summer's prep, your own people?

Fourth, Knicks fans and media, in the throes of a feeding frenzy, are short sighted assholes.

Fifth, did I mention that Knicks fans are assholes prone to throes of instant gratification? Nor do I exempt myself.

Sixth, Jackson's falling out in Golden State came from hard hardheadedness and a willful refusal to play ball with a corporate entity and high handedness with his own staff--yeah, that'll play well with James Dolan.

Seventh, consider the asshole factor yet again, and how many times the Knicks have gone down the savior route (Larry Brown/Phool Jagoff anyone?).

Eighth, making Fizdale walk the plank and leaving the power structure INTACT which hired him in the first place solves nothing.

Ninth, Dolan has never been unwilling to toss loads of money in the general direction of players, coaches, infrastructure, and yet, we seem to keep making the same mistakes over and over.

Tenth, the charm, the players are supportive of Fizdale, and as charismatic as a Mark Jackson might be, scapegoating Fizz for a roster he was gifted with, and for the growing pains of said players, not even a month into the fucking season as the coaching staff is still sorting out rotations and combinations, does not address short term let alone long term issues--the players need to own their own performances, and tonight against the Hornets, another transitional team, after their previous post-Porzingis letdown, will be telling.

Eleventh, things sometimes have a way of working themselves out, such as how Dennis Smith finally found his mojo and his rhythm after a brutal start to the season, complicated by injuries and the loss of his Step-Mother.

Twelfth, it is too damn soon to have this discussion, not even a fucking month into the season, as any review of coaching should go hand in hand with a review of the players come next spring, assuming we miss the playoffs, vis a vis which free agents get re-upped, which get cut loose, pre-draft analysis, free agent evaluations, new coaching staff.  WHICH IS NOT TO SAY THAT FIZDALE IS THE MAN, OR THAT WE ARE ENDORSING/SIGNING OFF ON HIS DECISIONS, BUT THAT THIS WAS THE COLLECTIVE CORPORATE PLAN GOING INTO THE SEASON, AND ANY REVIEW THAT DOES NOT GO FROM TOP TO BOTTOM IS A SHAM. 

And thirteenth, if Dolan remains in charge, and this is maybe the most profitable, highly valued franchise in sports, what really changes?

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ_wnYlIEopstZLasLFpS2qxQd7NPorVmtKkaXmvKpuGvnhVn0b&s)

The author of this screed has no credibility, so feel free to tune into the broadcast frequency of your choice, such as Dawg Central, and switch off RADIO FREE CHIP.

(https://positive-feedback.com/Issue42/images/Radio%20Free%20Chip%20Roundhead%20Knobs5%20without%20Typeface.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 16, 2019, 02:31:57 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on November 16, 2019, 01:30:38 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 16, 2019, 12:11:53 PM

Also Fizz fucking sucks.


We can't let the Joy and Glory of the Mavs game overshadow this essential truth — and he really makes it worse every time he opens up that pie hole:

"I don't hear anybody b*tching about Houston isolating, they hold the ball the whole game but they score 1,000 points"

https://twitter.com/sny_knicks/status/1195122163600297986 (https://twitter.com/sny_knicks/status/1195122163600297986)


*** Harden anyone?....and it's still a f'ing unwatchable horror no matter how many f'ing points they score . #DisgracingTheGame #FU-D'Antoni #Can'tWaitForTheNextChoke


We're on the same page here, Dawg.  I cringe every time I see us pounding the rock, dribbling into triple teams, tossing up early threes, and eschewing the kind of ball movement that leads to easy baskets and puts players in better position to block out, snare offensive rebounds and get second and third opportunities.  Standing around 25 feet from the hoop and watching someone go one on one?  Melo Ball?  The championship Knicks certainly would've embraced a combination of treys (Dick Barnett, DaveD-B, Dollar Bill, Jerry Lucas) and penetration, movement without the ball and midrange pull ups (Willis, Clyde and Dine, Pearl).  I am certainly not dismissing the three ball, but there is more than one way to skin a cat, and seeing Dennis get penetration and dishing off to cutters for easy hoops, made my tiny gerkin squirt uncontrollably. 
Title: Tick [TOCK]
Post by: chipstern on November 16, 2019, 03:21:47 PM
Kiki Vandeweghe interested in Knicks president job?

Regarding the front office, Mills and GM Scott Perry are likely to last the rest of the season, according to sources. That could change if James Dolan gets cranky, but, regardless, the front office is far from safe in the offseason. Names are already being floated across the league of executives who might replace Mills. They include: Masai Ujiri, Sam Presti, Kiki Vandeweghe (who is interested in the job, according to a source), Daryl Morey (who probably won’t last in Houston following the China controversy), Trajan Langdon and Sam Hinkie. – via Stefan Bondy @ New York Daily News
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 16, 2019, 05:08:15 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 16, 2019, 12:11:53 PM
The Pat Bev —> Lou Williams model may work for us with Frank and Dennis. Not that our pups are on that level, but they are to one another similar to how Pat is to Lou.

Yeah, I thought last game we finally got a glimpse of how these two pieces could work together for us. Or was it a mirage?

Quote from: chipstern on November 16, 2019, 02:10:34 PM
Eleventh, things sometimes have a way of working themselves out, such as how Dennis Smith finally found his mojo and his rhythm after a brutal start to the season, complicated by injuries and the loss of his Step-Mother.

Hey, that was just one game. Not the same as reclaiming any mojo.

But it would definitely be sweeet to see more of that tonight.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 16, 2019, 07:41:01 PM
Quote from: elephant on November 16, 2019, 05:08:15 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 16, 2019, 12:11:53 PM
The Pat Bev —> Lou Williams model may work for us with Frank and Dennis. Not that our pups are on that level, but they are to one another similar to how Pat is to Lou.

Yeah, I thought last game we finally got a glimpse of how these two pieces could work together for us. Or was it a mirage?

Quote from: chipstern on November 16, 2019, 02:10:34 PM
Eleventh, things sometimes have a way of working themselves out, such as how Dennis Smith finally found his mojo and his rhythm after a brutal start to the season, complicated by injuries and the loss of his Step-Mother.

Hey, that was just one game. Not the same as reclaiming any mojo.

But it would definitely be sweeet to see more of that tonight.


Did you see Marc Berman invoke Wally Pipp after Frank Ntilikina's game in Dallas last week in regards to Dennis and Elfrid?
That after ONE GAME Frank Ntilikina had not only turned the corner, not only CLAIMED THE JOB, but will be a future HoF like Lou G.

Same with Dennis we are ready to annoint him.  Or him and Frank as the backcourt tandem. 

It will be great if it works but let's let it play out.
Title: Re: Fizz MUST Go [A Minority Opinion]
Post by: Kam on November 16, 2019, 07:46:26 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 16, 2019, 02:10:34 PM

Thirdly, what's the point of taking over in mid-stream without a summer's prep, your own people?


To get a coach that will make implement a system to make these players more effective.  Maybe even competitive.  Not get blown out by 20 points so frequently. Be ready to play. Be accountable. Be team players etc......

Why waste a year on a guy you already know you don't want next year?

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 16, 2019, 08:14:43 PM
Mitchell is your best player.  Why did he lose his starting job?  Fitz sucks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 16, 2019, 08:16:32 PM
I like Frank's work on the fast break.  But he needs to know that he can be the finisher too.  Finish the break son!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 16, 2019, 09:56:18 PM
That was an ugly loss.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 16, 2019, 09:57:19 PM
Our Frenchman still hasn't shown he knows how to win a close game.
Title: Let’s see
Post by: carlos123 on November 16, 2019, 09:59:39 PM
Let’s see what Phony Phizz has to say. Gonna be interesting 🤔
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 16, 2019, 10:00:25 PM
There has to be someone on the floor who can run things in the final minutes and seconds.

We have no one.

(though Barrett at least tries; he's just not there yet.)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Merciless on November 16, 2019, 10:07:37 PM
Up 88-80 and a chance to close out strong with 5 min left... our LEADER comes down and shits the bed with a terrible shot and then a turnover...a leader he is not.

Hornets come back with 7 straight to get back in the game and the rest is history.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Merciless on November 16, 2019, 10:08:49 PM
Quote from: elephant on November 16, 2019, 09:56:18 PM
That was an ugly loss.

No it was a typical Knick loss
Title: Re: Let’s see
Post by: Kam on November 16, 2019, 10:17:51 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on November 16, 2019, 09:59:39 PM
Let’s see what Phony Phizz has to say. Gonna be interesting 🤔

"It's a make or miss league"
Title: Re: Let’s see
Post by: elephant on November 16, 2019, 10:39:17 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 16, 2019, 10:17:51 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on November 16, 2019, 09:59:39 PM
Let’s see what Phony Phizz has to say. Gonna be interesting 🤔

"It's a make or miss league"

I hope you're making that shit up.
Title: Re: Let’s see
Post by: Kam on November 16, 2019, 11:18:04 PM
Quote from: elephant on November 16, 2019, 10:39:17 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 16, 2019, 10:17:51 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on November 16, 2019, 09:59:39 PM
Let’s see what Phony Phizz has to say. Gonna be interesting 🤔

"It's a make or miss league"

I hope you're making that shit up.

He said it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 16, 2019, 11:44:48 PM
DSJ got ten minutes?  Wow.  One confusing motherfucker of a coach.
Title: Re: Let’s see
Post by: carlos123 on November 16, 2019, 11:46:14 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 16, 2019, 11:18:04 PM
Quote from: elephant on November 16, 2019, 10:39:17 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 16, 2019, 10:17:51 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on November 16, 2019, 09:59:39 PM
Let’s see what Phony Phizz has to say. Gonna be interesting 🤔

"It's a make or miss league"

I hope you're making that shit up.

He said it.

He’s ALWAYS interesting 🧐
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 16, 2019, 11:52:09 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 16, 2019, 11:44:48 PM
DSJ got ten minutes?  Wow.  One confusing motherfucker of a coach.

He picked up some quick fouls each time he was inserted.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 16, 2019, 11:53:10 PM
And sadly...

Cardinal sin. Up 2 late you can only let them shoot a 2
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 17, 2019, 12:06:01 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 16, 2019, 11:53:10 PM
And sadly...

Cardinal sin. Up 2 late you can only let them shoot a 2

The defense on that play was just atrocious for many reasons and that is one.   Brain fart loss.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 17, 2019, 12:06:13 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 16, 2019, 11:44:48 PM
DSJ got ten minutes?  Wow.  One confusing motherfucker of a coach.

5 fouls in 10 mins ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 17, 2019, 12:35:12 AM
Doncic averaging close to a 30 Pt triple double:
28.7 / 10.3 / 9.3.  His PER is 30.6

I probably should have put Knick Trivia in the NBA thread.

Answers:

Best Knick FT Shooters:
1. Jose Calderon 88.8%
2. Mike Glenn     88.6%
3. Kiki V             88.6%
4. Courtly           88.1%
5. The Dentist     88.1% (Steve Novak)

Most FTA's as a Knick with 80% or better FT%:
1. Carl Braun    3,457   @ 80.4%
2. Kenny Sears  2,736   @ 82.5%
3. Melo Tone     2,613   @ 83.0%
4. Al Houston    2,338    @ 87.2%
5. Willie Nauls   2,139    @ 81.9%
6. Early Pearl     2,117    @ 82.1%

So a hand for the old-timers.
Probably helped by less player movement, staying with the team longer.

Spree 8th; Craw 9th, Howard Komives 10th (and the last with more than 1000 FTA's and over 80% in.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 17, 2019, 12:41:10 AM
It's hard to comprehend.

Leading by two with some 3 seconds left — after a timeout — they let the shooter who had made 8 fucking three pointers that night take one more to end the game.

"You never want to lose any game, but especially when you got a solid lead. But give them credit," Knicks coach David Fizdale said. "They turned up their defense on us and they really shot the heck out of that 3 ball. I mean, 17 for 48 from 3. That's pretty impressive. And obviously the last one was the backbreaker."



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 17, 2019, 12:44:39 AM
Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf: career 90.5% FT with 1,161 FTA's.

So lower the threshold slightly (from 1200) and he's the career leader.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 17, 2019, 12:48:18 AM
It's funny, I often cringed at Fizz-speak throughout last year.
Now it seems everybody is mocking his platitudes and positive bromides.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 17, 2019, 12:58:52 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 17, 2019, 12:06:13 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 16, 2019, 11:44:48 PM
DSJ got ten minutes?  Wow.  One confusing motherfucker of a coach.

5 fouls in 10 mins ...

How many minutes in the 4th?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 17, 2019, 01:02:41 AM
17 of 48 from three is NOT FUCKING IMPRESSIVE, coach!  Its 36 per cent.  Hundreds of games this year will be better.

Allowing them to TAKE 48 is totally ludicrous.  LEARN THIS, then come and get re-graded.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 17, 2019, 01:06:30 AM
Simply can't coach end game

Axe, please.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 17, 2019, 01:45:43 AM
Quote from: elephant on November 17, 2019, 12:41:10 AM
It's hard to comprehend.

Leading by two with some 3 seconds left — after a timeout — they let the shooter who had made 8 fucking three pointers that night take one more to end the game.


I don't think he believes in fouling there.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 17, 2019, 01:58:06 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 17, 2019, 12:58:52 AM
How many minutes in the 4th?

Don't be lazy -- look it up if you want to know.
Jr. Smith came in just under the 5 min mark in the 3Q.
Committed 2 fouls and missed 2 shots.
Gets pulled with 1 min left after getting his 5th foul.

Conventional wisdom is you don't bring a guy in with 5 fouls in the 4Q until past midway through.  And it's not like he was hot, having missed last 2 FG's.  Jr. Smith comes back in first stoppage under 5 mins left in 4Q.  Seems pretty standard stuff.

Franc back in 1:12 presumably for defense, trying to close out the game. 

Kill Fizz for genuine mistakes, not bog standard foul management.
Title: The only positive
Post by: Kam on November 17, 2019, 02:58:06 AM
After the blow outs last week at least this week we went into the 4th quarter either tied (Bulls, Mavs) or leading by 1 (Hornets) in all three games.  We have trouble closing games.  No one really too surprised about that except maybe Perry/Mills. 

Who, when the game is close late, do you trust with the ball in their hands on this team?


Marcus Morris hit that three the other night.   But tonight we make him the inbounds guy and have Julius do it?



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 17, 2019, 08:19:22 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 17, 2019, 01:58:06 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 17, 2019, 12:58:52 AM
How many minutes in the 4th?

Don't be lazy -- look it up if you want to know.
Jr. Smith came in just under the 5 min mark in the 3Q.
Committed 2 fouls and missed 2 shots.
Gets pulled with 1 min left after getting his 5th foul.

......

Kill Fizz for genuine mistakes, not bog standard foul management.

And bog standard end game common sense...during the 3 min Djr. 3rd quarter check-in, a 13 point lead evaporated completely
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 17, 2019, 09:35:36 AM
1:35 left Jr. Smith takes a bad stance when his man gets the pass, giving Rozier a baseline drive.  And Smith has 5 fouls so doesn't do much after he is beat.  No idea why he went to the left side of Rozier since that was where another Knick was.  He just needed to guard/deny the baseline and failed.

After that they brought Franc back in for D.

I also noted around the 3 min mark Jr. Smith spotting up in the corner and his man totally ignoring him. 

So recently we had Coby White go off from 3, and now Devonte Graham. 

Btw, I think Fizz was impressed/surprised that CHA took 48 3's, not their %.  I looked at that and went Whoa.  The non-Devonte starters were 2-14 on 3's.  Again, it was just one guy torching us from deep, and it shouldn't be that hard to keep tabs on one hot hand ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on November 17, 2019, 12:16:26 PM
if knix had some shooters they would be dangerous. so many bricks early, the defense is better than it has been recently. 29th in fgp.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 17, 2019, 02:13:48 PM
DSJ sat 15 minutes combined - beginning of first and beginning of third quarters.

Off his performance the game prior, that is criminal

Let guys get some traction, Fizzdip.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 17, 2019, 03:19:42 PM
Dennis got torched from the minute he walked on the floor and gave us very little back. It was disappointing, but we can’t play Dallas every game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Pharoah on November 17, 2019, 03:34:09 PM
 had a long night, no full recap today...but

The Good:
- If Mitchell Robinson isn't our best player, he sure as hell is our most important. He's got a ton of gravity rolling and pretty much the reverse when he's defending. The impact he has is just nuts and we've got no other interior presence that even comes close to what Mitch does without needing to touch the ball. I pray that ankle injury isn't bad because he's a force.

- I'm already ready to hand the keys to RJ and live with whatever growing pains come out of it. Randle had a solid run late but putting the ball in RJ's hands can weaponize both via PnR. It was obvious on the last couple of plays that the Hornets weren't going to let Randle have anything. I do want to add that while there's still plenty to clean up, I think Julius is visibly trying to adjust and the offense has looked much better for it.

- Another added bonus from Mitch out there, Bobby Portis becomes completely serviceable. That gravity for Mitch means a ton of space for Portis who isn't bad in one on one post up situations and who can knock down the three if you let him get set.

- Taj is freakin' useful.

The Bad:
- Over relying on the zone. I've been tuned to this frequency since last season, so you can call me biased. But this is what we saw last year, the zone can hide guys for a little bit and catch an offense off guard. But you run it for too long and it'll start being picked apart. The Hornets took 48 three pointers last night and eventually guys got hot because they figured out the Zone. Coby White got going the same way in Chicago, got in a rhythm against the zone and stayed hot by the time we had adjusted.

- Frank tried to cheat the screen on that last play which is a luxury you have when Mitch is fully healthy, but not when he's on a bad ankle. The recovery was alright but let's be honest, if it's any other defender we'd mostly be asking why Frank wasn't on Graham in that last play. On the bright side, Frank's playmaking was good (with a couple of mistakes that turned to TO's but you'll make that trade for a 3:1 Ast:TO ratio) and he got inside the teeth of the defense more than some recent outtings.

- In crunch time Fiz got outcoached, period. Look at the difference in the final plays that each team ran. Charlotte went to their hot hand via a bit of decoy action and got him just enough space to get the shot off. New York's best scorer of the night was benched and their best isolation scorer (fresh off hitting a game winning three in the clutch) was made to inbound the ball with no time to get it back. There wasn't enough misdirection to get Randle the rock at the elbow and honestly, the Hornets would be fools to allow it under any circumstance. RJ deserved that take on the night, Morris has earned that shot on the season and while I get that Randle had the hot hand, he should have at least had a screener or some attempt to give him a bit of space to face up without needing a dribble.

The Needs Patience:
- DSJ was bad, but the foul trouble basically cut any chance to get into a rhythm in the offense. His fourth quarter minutes were a waste again too since he was relegated to sitting in the corner and watching RJ or Randle attack. He gets a mulligan but we know damn well that Payton is gonna get every opportunity to supplant both our young PG's; so he's gotta take the excuses to break up the PG rotation off the table soon.

- Knox only got 15 minutes and just didn't seem to have it last night. He should be our zone breaker but Portis stepped up and took that role while Knox saw his minutes cut and 0/3 from deep. I'm not gonna sweat that one, he's been good and reliable from three on damn near every other night.

- I think Dot has been a net positive with everything else he does, but the three ball hasn't been as reliable as I'd hoped. Considering shoulder surgery left him with less time to train in the offseason, that's understandable. But to really unlock his impact, he needs to find the three ball. Especially when the opponents start to employ a zone defense.
PG - Morris/Caruso
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 17, 2019, 03:49:20 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 17, 2019, 03:19:42 PM
Dennis got torched from the minute he walked on the floor and gave us very little back. It was disappointing, but we can’t play Dallas every game.

So moving forward your nod is to Frank and not Dennis?

Got it.  We'll see how that goes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 17, 2019, 04:00:17 PM
After that they brought Franc back in for D.


Could have switched Dennis back in for O but didnt
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 17, 2019, 04:14:10 PM
Dennis wasn’t producing O.

Frank starts. Dennis backs him up unless Payton shows he can do a better job.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 17, 2019, 04:19:40 PM
Knox motor was missing last night.  Just lackadaisical body language.

Fiz getting outcoached by his former co-assistant Borrego.  Sigh.

My kingdom for a Borrego.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 17, 2019, 04:23:25 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 17, 2019, 04:14:10 PM
Frank starts. Dennis backs him up unless Payton shows he can do a better job.

I heard you the first time

Own it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 17, 2019, 05:20:55 PM
Quote from: Pharoah on November 17, 2019, 03:34:09 PM

Frank tried to cheat the screen on that last play which is a luxury you have when Mitch is fully healthy, but not when he's on a bad ankle. The recovery was alright but let's be honest, if it's any other defender we'd mostly be asking why Frank wasn't on Graham in that last play.

No it's absolutely appropriate to call him out on that play (which is why I did).

If you're an offensively-challenged starting point guard in the NBA who has never made a clutch shot for his team, but is praised for his D and length, then yeah, you fucking better believe that YOU. MUST. STOP. THAT. MAN.

He fucked up.

And so it goes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 17, 2019, 06:56:14 PM
When you're counting on a Randle and a young Ntilikina to carry you down the stretch you're gonna have nights like that.   
I hope Frank learns that sometimes the best defense is not letting the hot shooter get the ball.  Don't try to cheat and have to recover and block.  Just put yourself in between the potential shooter and the ball so he can't get it passed to him unless he is moving backwards, which lessens his ability to nail a three.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 17, 2019, 07:00:04 PM
When you're counting on a Randle and a young Ntilikina to carry you down the stretch you're gonna have nights like that.   


Thats the point.  Fiz had a chance to reinsert Dennis at 0:33 when we went on offense.  We have already established that Randle goes pound, pound, pound hero mode when Frank is out there.  He did - came away empty with a chance to put us up 4.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 17, 2019, 09:26:29 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 17, 2019, 07:00:04 PM
When you're counting on a Randle and a young Ntilikina to carry you down the stretch you're gonna have nights like that.   


Thats the point.  Fiz had a chance to reinsert Dennis at 0:33 when we went on offense.  We have already established that Randle goes pound, pound, pound hero mode when Frank is out there.  He did - came away empty with a chance to put us up 4.

Fair enough.

However, long term?

Randle had just made three huge scores in a row. 

Coach trying to instill confidence...least ways, TRUST. 

It didn't work. 

Dennis?  Had ZERO Rhythm On The Evening. 

Instead of Dennis?  Or Ellington? 

Trier is someone who can create his shot in a scrum.  And RJ had come on strong in the final five. 

Live and learn, eh? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 18, 2019, 04:19:19 AM
When you're counting on a Randle and a young Ntilikina (or Jr. Smith) to carry you down the stretch you're gonna have nights like that.   

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on November 18, 2019, 08:44:39 AM
DSmith chewing that gum as the whole basketball universe implodes around him drives me nuts.  I swear his body language says he ain't happy here, his game is suffering for it.  I'm going to say it again  FIZZ cannot coach.  Some of the schemes and plays he run, I be shaking my head.  The season is quickly heading into tankmode unless we switch coaches and try to implement winning as a necessity and not a luxury.  We need strong coaches who will speak their minds and coach.  Lastly Fizz late game coaching, once again WTF.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 18, 2019, 09:30:26 AM
Stay with Dennis Jr, Jaq.  You will be rewarded.

Payton unfortunately shelved - he was the key to 30-32-34-36 wins.
Title: Start this unit
Post by: Kam on November 18, 2019, 11:10:17 AM
DSJ
Frank
RJ
Knox
Mitchell
Title: MINUTES for this unit
Post by: chipstern on November 18, 2019, 11:56:18 AM
Quote from: Kam on November 18, 2019, 11:10:17 AM
DSJ
Frank
RJ
Knox
Mitchell

At the very least, would like to see THIS UNIT get significant minutes as an entity. 

I mean, while "tanking" is not the order of the day, seeing as how these puppies are all keepers, it is surely incumbent upon us to commit...TO COMMIT to some serious player development moving forward. 

Having said that...

Shooters?  We are sorely lacking. 

Also, seeing as how Fizz is presumably now operating in Hornacek/Woodson WIN-NowOrDie-Mode, this would surely impact lineups, not to mention evaluating the scrum of veterans he has been gifted from Mills & Perry, Custom Tailors. 
Title: Re: MINUTES for this unit
Post by: Kam on November 18, 2019, 12:37:41 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 18, 2019, 11:56:18 AM
Quote from: Kam on November 18, 2019, 11:10:17 AM
DSJ
Frank
RJ
Knox
Mitchell

At the very least, would like to see THIS UNIT get significant minutes as an entity. 

Shooters?  We are sorely lacking. 

Also, seeing as how Fizz is presumably now operating in Hornacek/Woodson WIN-NowOrDie-Mode, this would surely impact lineups, not to mention evaluating the scrum of veterans he has been gifted from Mills & Perry, Custom Tailors.

It would be a bold statement by Fizz to the front office....  screw your high priced free agents you signed this offseason.  If you're gonna blame me for the food i'll throw back the ingredients.

Of the free agents who has impressed?  Maybe Taj of late.  Anyone else?  Elf when health?  If you want to say Morris they didn't even have him in their plans they got lucky with Bullocks health situation.

What has PerryMills done outside of the last two drafts?  Hired Fiz, traded for DSJ, and wasted cap space with little to show.
Title: Re: MINUTES for this unit
Post by: bodiddley on November 18, 2019, 01:10:32 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 18, 2019, 12:37:41 PM
DSJ
Frank
RJ
Knox
Mitchell

It would be a bold statement by Fizz to the front office....  screw your high priced free agents you signed this offseason.

The good old Middle Finger Starting 5.

The main question is whether Fizz would get fired immediately after doing it once, or if they'd give him a little more rope to get his neck comfortable.

Anyway, those are the main 5 we need to try to develop.
Along with Trier and Dot.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 18, 2019, 01:18:14 PM
Btw, the Cavs game today represents the end of the easiest stretch of the schedule.  Competition gets tougher right soon.
Knix with 6th most difficult schedule going forward.

Next 10 straight are against presumed playoff teams.  Easiest 2 are BKY and SAS.  6 Home and 3 Road, but mostly against top teams.  Most brutal:  PHI-off-BOS-@MIL 3 games in 4 nights.

Assuming Knix take revenge at Home v. CLE to get to 4-10.  How many of the next 10 do the Knix W?  Could easily be something like 6-18 or 7-17 on Dec 11 facing a 4 game West Coast trip.

At that point, the tank is on, our vets can be traded in package deals starting Dec 15, and Fizz unlikely to make it past XMas.

One reason I thought the Knix could get to 28 or 29 W's (whichever I predicted) was mainly I thought Knix easy early schedule would allow a decent start (say 6-7 or 7-6) and provide enough confidence and early W's to keep the team afloat. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 18, 2019, 01:32:03 PM
Bbtw, looks like Knix 2nd round pick goes to PHI, but we get CHA's 2nd round pick (from trading Willy Hernancortez).  So that 1-pt CHA loss could hurt our 2nd round pick (especially as it gives CHA and Devonte Graham Cracker confidence).  That was B2B game-winning 3's for CHA.  Against NYK interests.
Title: Missing Second Rounders?
Post by: chipstern on November 18, 2019, 01:42:49 PM
Oh, our #2 pick for 2019, which WOULD HAVE BEEN THE FIRST PICK OF THE SECOND ROUND. 

PHIL JACKSON, whose mammary that Masterbaiter, The Prophet Kiid, recently suckled  in shaming Knicks fans for their complicity in running him out of town. 

OWN IT

2014-15

Signings: Shannon Brown (waived), Lamar Odom (waived), Jason Smith, Ricky Ledo (waived), Langston Galloway

Trades

Tyson Chandler and Raymond Felton to Dallas for Jose Calderon, Samuel Dalembert, Wayne Ellington, Shane Larkin, and two second-round picks (Cleanthony Early and Thanasis Antetokounmpo)

Wayne Ellington and Jeremy Tyler to Sacramento for Quincy Acy and Travis Outlaw

Travis Outlaw, 2019 second-round pick and swap rights on 2018 second-rounder to Philadelphia for Arnett Moultrie

Iman Shumpert and J.R. Smith to Cleveland for Lance Thomas (via OKC), Lou Amundson, Alex Kirk and Cavs’ 2019 second-round pick

Pablo Prigioni to Houston for Alexey Shved, 2017 second-round pick (Ognjen Jaramaz) and 2019 second-round pick

Drafted: Cleanthony Early (No. 34) and Thanasis Antetokounmpo (No. 51)

2015-16

Signings: Derrick Williams (two years, $10 million), Arron Afflalo (two years, $16 million), Robin Lopez (four years, $54 million), Kevin Seraphin, Tony Wroten (never played), Jimmer Fredette (10-day contract)

Trades

Tim Hardaway Jr. to Atlanta for No. 19 pick in 2015 (Jerian Grant)

2020 and 2021 second-round picks to Philadelphia for Willy Hernangomez

Swap rights on 2019 second-round pick to Orlando for Kyle O’Quinn

Drafted: Kristaps Porzingis (No. 4)

2016-17

Signings: Joakim Noah (four years, $72 million), Courtney Lee (four years, $48 million), Lance Thomas (four years, $27 million), Brandon Jennings (one year, $5 million — waived midseason), Sasha Vujacic, Mindaugas Kuzminskas, Marshall Plumlee, Maurice Ndour, Ron Baker, Chasson Randle (midseason)

Trade: Jose Calderon, Jerian Grant, and Robin Lopez to Chicago for Derrick Rose and Justin Holiday

2017-18

Drafted: Frank Ntilikina No. 8 in 2017, Damyean Dotson, No. 44 and Ognjen Jaramaz No. 58

Overall Grade?

You tell me...and let's not forget the Carmelo Anthony contract, and destroying his trade value on the way out the door, with the assistance of Phil's personal Lavrentiy Beria, Charley Rosen. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 18, 2019, 01:53:44 PM
Quote
Wayne Ellington and Jeremy Tyler to Sacramento for Quincy Acy and Travis Outlaw

Travis Outlaw, 2019 second-round pick and swap rights on 2018 second-rounder to Philadelphia for Arnett Moultrie

So we lost our 2nd round pick this year (likely 30-35) to ditch Outlaw's contract?
I vaguely recall that minor bit of failure.
Nice gift for PHI.

Of course this year's Knix could have taken on an unwanted contract or two in exchange for future draft picks, as ATL did with Crabbeapple.  Instead of splurging on PF vets.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 18, 2019, 02:24:00 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 18, 2019, 01:53:44 PM
Quote
Wayne Ellington and Jeremy Tyler to Sacramento for Quincy Acy and Travis Outlaw

Travis Outlaw, 2019 second-round pick and swap rights on 2018 second-rounder to Philadelphia for Arnett Moultrie

So we lost our 2nd round pick this year (likely 30-35) to ditch Outlaw's contract?
I vaguely recall that minor bit of failure.
Nice gift for PHI.

Of course this year's Knix could have taken on an unwanted contract or two in exchange for future draft picks, as ATL did with Crabbeapple.  Instead of splurging on PF vets.

Point taken. 

However, kind of hard to imagine the Knicks, NOR KNICKS FANS, committing to yet another purposeful Tank Season, though we may nevertheless be headed in that direction. 

Chandler Parsons  $25,102,512
Evan Turner          $18,606,556
Allen Crabbe         $18,500,000
Alex Len                 $4,160,000

Atlanta's expiring contracts come the summer of 2020. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 18, 2019, 03:42:31 PM
Not sure exactly how to evaluate the Crabbe salary dump:

Quote
Crabbe traded by the Brooklyn Nets with Nickeil Alexander-Walker and a 2020 1st round draft pick to the Atlanta Hawks for Taurean Prince and a 2021 2nd round draft pick. (top-14 protected)

Prince is a useful player, but probably wouldn't merit a 1st on his own.  But even just the Nets #17 pick this year was pretty good.
ATL drafted SG N Alexander-Walker (and traded him to move up to get DeAndre Hunter).
But Goga Bitadze was #18
Thybule #20
Brandon Clarke #21
Grant Williams  #22

So that was a nice section of the draft.
I'd take Crabbe and Clarke instead of Bollocks and Portis.

And Nets pick next year could be higher than #17.
Though likely we'd just get one 1st and a 2nd for Crabbe (?)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 18, 2019, 03:46:31 PM
Quote
The Cavs, playing on the second night of a back-to-back, will be without two of their best bigs tonight both Kevin Love (back) and Larry Nance (thumb) have been ruled out vs. the Knicks

Things stacked in Knix favor.
Guard the damn 3-point line.
Play up on their guards and make them drive into Mitch & Taj.

Also should be a chance for Randle to feast down low, and PnR lobs to Mitch.
Title: Remember When Ryan Anderson Was Being Dangled For Carmelo Anthony?
Post by: chipstern on November 18, 2019, 04:35:21 PM
Salman Ali: The Rockets announced that the team has waived forward Ryan Anderson. – via Twitter SalmanAliNBA

Ryan Anderson   $2,564,753 [2019-2020]

2018-2019 Totals

3-Pt %: .225
FG %:   .304

OWN IT
Title: Re: Start this unit
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 18, 2019, 05:02:04 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 18, 2019, 11:10:17 AM
DSJ
Frank
RJ
Knox
Mitchell

How about make that 3/4/5 your second unit?

Start DSJ, Wayne/Damean, Marcus, Bobby, Taj
Title: Re: Remember When Ryan Anderson Was Being Dangled For Carmelo Anthony?
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 18, 2019, 05:07:15 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 18, 2019, 04:35:21 PM
Salman Ali: The Rockets announced that the team has waived forward Ryan Anderson. – via Twitter SalmanAliNBA

Ryan Anderson   $2,564,753 [2019-2020]

2018-2019 Totals

3-Pt %: .225
FG %:   .304

OWN IT

I regret that Ryan's inconsequential garbage time wasnt more productive

heh

Sad only in that he wont be going to the Finals with JH and Austin this year
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 18, 2019, 05:19:28 PM
Horrible Nets deal, by the way - when they dealt Anderson to Magic
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 18, 2019, 05:28:51 PM
Assuming Knix take revenge at Home v. CLE to get to 4-10.  How many of the next 10 do the Knix W?  Could easily be something like 6-18 or 7-17 on Dec 11 facing a 4 game West Coast trip.


Like I told my son the day of the Knicks first win over Dallas - "this is the KNICKS, so you never know"
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 18, 2019, 06:28:33 PM
SUNS favored by 3.5 tonight vs Celts

Knicks?  Take a guess.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 18, 2019, 06:34:46 PM
Knicks -5?

Wow.

OK, one night of picks....


Cleveland +5 at New York

Indiana +2 at Brooklyn

Toronto -8.5 vs Charlotte

Chicago +8 vs Milwaukee

Portland +7.5  at Houston

Dallas -5 vs San Antonio

Boston +3.5 at Phoenix

Minnesota +9.5 at Utah

LA Clippers -9 vs OKC



- and a bonus........

Chargers +5 vs Kansas City

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 18, 2019, 07:00:07 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 18, 2019, 05:28:51 PM
Assuming Knix take revenge at Home v. CLE to get to 4-10.  How many of the next 10 do the Knix W?  Could easily be something like 6-18 or 7-17 on Dec 11 facing a 4 game West Coast trip.


Like I told my son the day of the Knicks first win over Dallas - "this is the KNICKS, so you never know"

I'll sign up for 7-17 right now.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 18, 2019, 07:11:56 PM
My first look at Darius Garland

No Love, no Nance
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 18, 2019, 07:35:19 PM
Kevin Knox grabs rebound, looks at Smith Jr on wing and just keeps dribbling

Problem
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 18, 2019, 08:34:25 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 18, 2019, 07:35:19 PM
Kevin Knox grabs rebound, looks at Smith Jr on wing and just keeps dribbling

Problem

That's what all our forwards do.  I've seen Portis Morris and Randle do the same.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 18, 2019, 09:02:20 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 18, 2019, 08:34:25 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 18, 2019, 07:35:19 PM
Kevin Knox grabs rebound, looks at Smith Jr on wing and just keeps dribbling

Problem

That's what all our forwards do.  I've seen Portis Morris and Randle do the same.

And will continue to do unless told otherwise

How can we expect our point guards to play in classic mode if not given such opportunity?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 18, 2019, 09:24:10 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 18, 2019, 09:02:20 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 18, 2019, 08:34:25 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 18, 2019, 07:35:19 PM
Kevin Knox grabs rebound, looks at Smith Jr on wing and just keeps dribbling

Problem

That's what all our forwards do.  I've seen Portis Morris and Randle do the same.

And will continue to do unless told otherwise

How can we expect our point guards to play in classic mode if not given such opportunity?

CHAIN OF COMMAND
- a PG used to be the "coach on the floor"  but Fiz believes in playing free and positionless basketball.
- so your head coach de-emphasizes the "classic mode"
- your head coach didnt even start a PG to begin the year's first game
- he doesn't respect the PG's so why would Morris, who is in a contract year
- Randle sees Morris and says I can do that too
- Knox picks up the bad habits

Title: Riding high
Post by: Kam on November 18, 2019, 09:37:35 PM
We should be on a 3 game win streak but i'll take it.
Wire to wire return of favor to the Cavs who beat us likewise
123 is our highest point total of the year.
Previous high: 111 on opening night.
Feels like the first game since then Randle and Morris both played well.
Title: What Just Happenned?
Post by: chipstern on November 18, 2019, 10:28:21 PM
You'll get tired of winning, Knicks fans. 

So much winning. 

Haha. 

Nice game from Frank.  Big step forward for Julius.  RJ just keeps growing (my God, hitting his foul shots).  Dotson starting to cement his place in the rotation, even as he is still getting into rhythm. 

Anyway, the moment is over. 

Still, nice to bitch slap someone from coast to coast.  Still too many damn treys, but better defensive focus on the whole, only 7 turnovers, 35 free throws.  We caught a break with Love being out, but we kept Sexton from going beserk. 

Good to see Fizdale beginning to stabilize his rotations. 

Baby steps.  But I'll take any progress I can. 

Philly on Wednesday with a reality check.

We shall see?

To be continued.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 18, 2019, 11:01:25 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 18, 2019, 09:24:10 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 18, 2019, 09:02:20 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 18, 2019, 08:34:25 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 18, 2019, 07:35:19 PM
Kevin Knox grabs rebound, looks at Smith Jr on wing and just keeps dribbling

Problem

That's what all our forwards do.  I've seen Portis Morris and Randle do the same.

And will continue to do unless told otherwise

How can we expect our point guards to play in classic mode if not given such opportunity?

CHAIN OF COMMAND
- a PG used to be the "coach on the floor"  but Fiz believes in playing free and positionless basketball.
- so your head coach de-emphasizes the "classic mode"
- your head coach didnt even start a PG to begin the year's first game
- he doesn't respect the PG's so why would Morris, who is in a contract year
- Randle sees Morris and says I can do that too
- Knox picks up the bad habits

I totally agree with each of your observations.

It's a real issue, not an imagined one.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 18, 2019, 11:09:34 PM
Taj is not a sensational player. But he is so smart and solid and consistently good.

A guy who would be valuable on any team.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 18, 2019, 11:11:53 PM
Now not to be a downer after the victory but...

What the fuck is up with Smith Jr.?

Gotta be some story, no? The dude just looks out of it.
Title: Trial And Error
Post by: chipstern on November 19, 2019, 02:10:53 AM
Quote from: elephant on November 18, 2019, 11:11:53 PM
Now not to be a downer after the victory but...

What the fuck is up with Smith Jr.?

Gotta be some story, no? The dude just looks out of it.

He has yet to find his BALANCE. 

Was ostensibly having a great camp.  Got hurt missed practices.  Came back rusty, a busty.  Got booed.  His step-mother died. 

"Dude looks out of it."

No shit Sherlock. 

Look at Julius.  It took him what, the better part of 14 games to find his balance. 

30-7-4-2-1

But most significantly, ONLY ONE TURNOVER; not overthinking, not dribbling into triple teams, not forcing the issue, playing HIS game, letting the game come to him.  Impressive. 

Can he do it two games in a row. 

We shall see.  Al Horford beckons. 

Dennis is CLEARLY OVERTHINKING. 

His game is going to the rack with aggression, and finishing strong, which is how creates space for his own floaters and midrange jumpers, and open looks for this team mates. 

On one particular play, before he got pulled for Frank, he had a great penetration, was right in rhythm for a layup, and you can hear him thinking, MUST BE UNSELFISH AND PASS, which led to a ICBM into the crowd and a turnover and a spot on the pine. 

His game at point and Frank's game are different.  Frank's sense of deference works for his style, whereas Dennis' aggression in looking for his shot is very much HIS STYLE. 

Knicks fans are so wrought, it's easy to forget that we are just now entering the fourth week of the season. 

Not to deny any of you your pain, or your ennui with FIZZ. 

However, there is a learning curve for EVERYONE, including the coaches, and mistakes, OUT AND OUT HOWLING FUCK UPS, are part of the process. 

Did you see RJ tonight?  Fizz played him 24 minutes, Dotson got 18, Ellington got 9.  51 minutes

PGs?  Frank got 29, Dennis 19.  48 minutes. 

Bigs?  Out of what, 48 x 3 = 144 minutes at Center-PF-SF? 

Morris with 34, Randle with 32, Portis with 23, Knox with 20, Mitchell with 17, Taj with 16...142 minutes

Dennis and Knox were scuffling. 

RJ hit his only three, made a strong drive to the hoop favoring his right hand, his weak hand.  He hit 4-5 FTs, 15-2-1-2-2 and only one turnover. Practice makes for progress.  Dotson getting some of RJ's minutes and making the most of them, although his three is not quite there yet.  So Fizz's rotations making more sense. 

Of course, what happens when Elfrid comes back and Alonzo starts earning court time?  Let alone Bullock. 

Challenging. 

We caught the Cavs down their PF bell cow and on the second game in two nights. 

Be that as it may, progress.  Better defense, 10 blocks, 8 steals only 7 turnovers.  More efficient on offense. 

Philly?  8-5, Knicks 4-10. 

Besides rough match-ups with Simmons and Embid, Tobias Harris and Horford will be a BIG challenge for Morris and Randle. 

We shall see. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 19, 2019, 04:19:50 AM
Cavs outshot us.
But had 19 turnovers compared to 7.
So Knix had more FG's.
Still giving up 47% on 3's is not good.

How did K Porter look?
I've been meaning to check him out.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 19, 2019, 04:26:31 AM
Taj is a smart solid pro.
Could be valuable to a playoff team needing an extra big defender.

Knix can make interesting offers to fill up roster holes and depth issues for a playoff team, in exchange for a pick/yute and contract ballast.

Taj and Ellington = vet defense and 3-point shooting.  The kind of role players playoff teams need. 

Morris also an obvious candidate for a playoff team.
POR & UTA could use him as a starter.  I should look for other teams that could use his services.  Vet, tough mofo, inside-out game. MaMo is a plug and play F who can start or bolster a bench.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 19, 2019, 08:47:16 AM
What the fuck is up with Smith Jr.?


DSJ had SEVEN passes that the receiver then missed the open shot.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Merciless on November 19, 2019, 12:22:11 PM
Quote from: elephant on November 18, 2019, 11:11:53 PM
Now not to be a downer after the victory but...

What the fuck is up with Smith Jr.?

Gotta be some story, no? The dude just looks out of it.

Looks and plays like a disinterested JR Smith
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 19, 2019, 05:58:28 PM
He looks a little lost still which is to be expected and he’s not using his top gear, I guess because of the back. He’s playing his way into shape and rhythm which is never a player’s best look. He’s got at least a few more games to get it down before Elfrid starts breathing down his neck. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 19, 2019, 06:36:47 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 19, 2019, 05:58:28 PM
He looks a little lost still which is to be expected and he’s not using his top gear, I guess because of the back. He’s playing his way into shape and rhythm which is never a player’s best look. He’s got at least a few more games to get it down before Elfrid starts breathing down his neck.

Elfrid's hamstring still not deemed to be fully healed. 

Re-evaluate in 10 days. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 19, 2019, 07:06:45 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 19, 2019, 06:36:47 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 19, 2019, 05:58:28 PM
He looks a little lost still which is to be expected and he’s not using his top gear, I guess because of the back. He’s playing his way into shape and rhythm which is never a player’s best look. He’s got at least a few more games to get it down before Elfrid starts breathing down his neck.

Elfrid's hamstring still not deemed to be fully healed. 

Re-evaluate in 10 days.

DSJ has at least 10 days to get more right.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 19, 2019, 07:18:15 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 19, 2019, 07:06:45 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 19, 2019, 06:36:47 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 19, 2019, 05:58:28 PM
He looks a little lost still which is to be expected and he’s not using his top gear, I guess because of the back. He’s playing his way into shape and rhythm which is never a player’s best look. He’s got at least a few more games to get it down before Elfrid starts breathing down his neck.

Elfrid's hamstring still not deemed to be fully healed. 

Re-evaluate in 10 days.

DSJ has at least 10 days to get more right.

(https://www.aveleyman.com/Gallery/2017/M/11982.jpg)

And to win over the Merciless One

Title: Next Three
Post by: chipstern on November 19, 2019, 07:20:47 PM
Sixers

Spurs

Nyets

A good test of Fizdale's Progress. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 19, 2019, 07:48:10 PM
None of them playing all that well - though my guess is Kyrie is back when we play them

More telling is loss column math - who are we catching

Losses:

Golden State - 12
New York - 10
Chicago - 10
Atlanta - 9
Detroit - 9
Cleveland - 9
Portland - 9
San Antonio - 9
New Orleans - 9


Looking like at worst a top ten pick, someone like...


https://www.nbadraft.net/players/vernon-carey/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Merciless on November 19, 2019, 09:22:59 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 19, 2019, 07:18:15 PM

(https://www.aveleyman.com/Gallery/2017/M/11982.jpg)

And to win over the Merciless One

I love the kid and want him to succeed. I think he's supremely talented
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 19, 2019, 09:41:56 PM
Quote from: Merciless on November 19, 2019, 09:22:59 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 19, 2019, 07:18:15 PM

(https://www.aveleyman.com/Gallery/2017/M/11982.jpg)

And to win over the Merciless One

I love the kid and want him to succeed. I think he's supremely talented

Likewise. 

Even Clyde took note of what her perceived to be some lackadaisical tendencies in the first quarter last night, so there is THAT. 

What I read in his body language is more a matter of frustration, as he is still trying to trust both his instincts AND his body, and after what was ostensibly such a positive summer, the kid was snakebit. 

But you know what, in a perverse way (and what other ways are there when it comes to our Knucks), there has been an upside to this narrative. 

Because of injuries to Kadeem Allen AND Elfrid Peyton AND Dennis Smith, Ntilikina has gotten accustomed [FUCKING FINALLY] to consistent minutes in the rotation, and he has been making genuine progress on both ends, though he is still very much a work in progress.  Still, in playing through his mistakes and his fouls, with the knowledge that he is not going to get a quick hook and frozen to the pine, he is displaying more aggression and exerting some leadership as well. 

I figure Dennis has got a good two weeks to do likewise, because I don't think the Knicks are inclined in any way shape or form to rush Elfrid back. 

Dennis pretty much had the starting PG role locked coming out of the summer and into training camp. 

He just has to pay his dues, and fuck up in public.  He'll be okay.  Because his team is pulling for him, and in this regard, check out how RJ is leading in this regard, having had his own ups and down and more than his share of fuck ups, but he keeps coming. 

Embrace the pain, Merciless One, we are, after all, KNICKS FANS, God help us all.   

PS: Having said all of that, I truly dread the Sixers coming to town, and the possibility of hopes crashed come 9:30PM tomorrow night, and a desperate howl of betrayal from my man Miras, as he finds himself having been tempted to believe, to believe it was safe to dip into the deep end of the pool, only to be fist fucked by the fates, in yet another Knicks meltdown...best leave Chip to his rose-colored douchiness and sustain your learned snark--we've been down this road before, 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 19, 2019, 09:48:02 PM
Will they allow Frank to check Simmons?

Why the hell not?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 19, 2019, 09:51:16 PM
All the hubbub about Frank

Lets break it down

First three games - shoots 0-7

Next 5 - a respectable 13-27

Then

6 games at 13-38

Thats 2 buckets a game we are making a big deal of
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 19, 2019, 10:07:25 PM
But...

28-8 assists to turnovers in the last 6

2.75-1 for the season

0.2 win shares, 0.0 VORP

Gettin better
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 19, 2019, 10:17:26 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 19, 2019, 10:07:25 PM
But...

28-8 assists to turnovers in the last 6

2.75-1 for the season

0.2 win shares, 0.0 VORP

Gettin better

Not to blow your mind by invoking Ball The Lonzo, but in games I've watched there are a lot of things he does that do not necessarily show up in a box score. 

Yes, a more advanced talent. 

However, also, a streaky shooter, a very streaky shooter, who when the fruit isn't falling, makes up for it with defense and court vision and getting his team mates into rhythm, even if it does not translate to the ledger as an actual assist. 

Frank has a long way to go as a shooter. 

But even when he is clanking, more often than not he looks decisive, rather than tentative. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 19, 2019, 11:17:45 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 19, 2019, 10:17:26 PM


But even when he is clanking, more often than not he looks decisive, rather than tentative.

But not creative!   There's almost no guile in his game.  Few fakes or crossovers, no eurosteppin layups, nothing to ooh and ahh about.  I can take losses if they're entertaining.  I can't take losing and being boring.

I saw DSJ throw like 5 lobs to Mitch Robinson and then Frank got the message and threw him 1.

He's not offensively minded and SORRY that's your job if you're a PG.   

You're no Avery Bradley/Pat Beverley yet and they're not PGs either.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 20, 2019, 01:33:03 AM
Quote from: Kam on November 19, 2019, 11:17:45 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 19, 2019, 10:17:26 PM


But even when he is clanking, more often than not he looks decisive, rather than tentative.

But not creative!   There's almost no guile in his game.  Few fakes or crossovers, no eurosteppin layups, nothing to ooh and ahh about.  I can take losses if they're entertaining.  I can't take losing and being boring.

I saw DSJ throw like 5 lobs to Mitch Robinson and then Frank got the message and threw him 1.

He's not offensively minded and SORRY that's your job if you're a PG.   

You're no Avery Bradley/Pat Beverley yet and they're not PGs either.

Point taken, and yes, those are attributes that bespeak what the Knicks are expecting out of Dennis Smith. 

HOWEVER...that's PART OF YOUR JOB IF YOU'RE A PG. 

I believe that you are seriously underestimating what it means to have a steady hand at the rudder, albeit without all of that offensive, Steph Curry/Steve Nash PG offensive aggression that defines the modern PG.  Not to mention DEFENSE.  HELLO. 

While a Kyrie Irving type (when healthy) is certainly a more dynamic, galvanizing presence moving forward, and one that any Knicks fan would lust after...

Two of the more impactful, winning point guards we've had in the past twenty years did not get the job done by being offensive firestorms, Kam. 

Admittedly, not very sexy, nor in tune with your idealized conception of guile, but boring-ass Charlie Ward and Pablo Prigioni were winners. 

Meanwhile, let's see how much Frank and Dennis's contrasting skill sets rub off on each other in the next month or so, shall we. 

PS: Yes, hard to watch bad asses such as Ja Morant, Trae Young and Luka Doncic, and then linger on Frank's considerably more passive, modest skill set.  Them's the breaks.  But reflect if you might on how Frank competed with the sexier Sexton in our most recent victory and how he contested the prodigious Doncic in two wins.  I mean, holding Doncic to a 30-10-10 stat line is akin to a moral victory, but in a bit of irony, despite Luka's MVP/Oscar Robertson-stat line, we won both games with Frank.  Celtics used to have this guy, name of KC Jones, who was every bit as boring as Frank, but...well, he has a few rings. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 20, 2019, 03:34:42 AM
So I see an article highlighting that Melo scored 10 in his debut, and was 2-3 of 3's.  Then a bit later down they mention 5 fouls and a team worst -20.  They didn't even bother to get to the 5 turnovers and zero assists.

Just one game, with Lillard out, but seems closer to horrible than good. 

I don't really care about Melo one way or the other.
Though I suspect he's old and spent and won't be much help.
I'm rooting for it to slowly fail solely because I want POR to be desperate for a PF from Dec 15 on.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 20, 2019, 06:00:00 AM
Quote
Fizdale was asked at Knicks practice on Tuesday how regularly he speaks to Dolan.

"Every game, every game. Jim Dolan comes in and gives me a vote of confidence, a pat on my back and really has just been incredibly encouraging over the last year and a half or whatever it's been," Fizdale said. "All we talk about is just sticking to the process of making these guys better and building for a future of sustainable winning."
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 20, 2019, 08:45:12 AM
The 2-3 from Melo is promising.  That is what he is there for.  I see him staying the year in POR (minutes may var) and signing somewhere else for next campaign.

I guess for now we slip in Phoenix as a playoff team in place of the Blazers.  PHO-LAL would be an interesting first round
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on November 20, 2019, 09:32:21 AM
Sorry guys Frank is growing on me, I am liking that he is slowly getting his confidence.  Frank can shoot, Frank can pass, Frank can orchestrate an offense, Frank can play defense.  To me it seems he has no confidence.  Fizz should be in his ear at every practice egging him to shoot and shoot with confidence like every shot was going in.  You can't keep yanking him out of the game because he doesn't shoot, get in his ass.  The more I watch him he reminds me of a young Bruce Bowen except Bowen couldn't shoot a lick, but with confidence started hitting them shots.  Give the keys to Frank build his confidence and lets win some games.  I got a feeling we gonna take this game in Philly.  :D
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 20, 2019, 09:45:13 AM
PS: Yes, hard to watch bad asses such as Ja Morant, Trae Young and Luka Doncic, and then linger on Frank's considerably more passive, modest skill set.  Them's the breaks. But reflect if you might on how Frank competed with the sexier Sexton in our most recent victory and how he contested the prodigious Doncic in two wins.  I mean, holding Doncic to a 30-10-10 stat line is akin to a moral victory, but in a bit of irony, despite Luka's MVP/Oscar Robertson-stat line, we won both games with Frank.  Celtics used to have this guy, name of KC Jones, who was every bit as boring as Frank, but...well, he has a few rings.


Already been established - Frank does NOT check the opposition's PG most of the time.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 20, 2019, 10:21:48 AM

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/vernon-carey/

WOW!  I really like this kid

NBAdraft.net has his comp as Sabonis.  Fits after seeing him one time.  Left handed - runs the floor, blocks, affects shots - good FT shooter.

Dad was a #1 pick and played 8 years for Dolphins.

VERNON CAREY JR - remember him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 20, 2019, 10:28:19 AM
Quote from: jaqdavisone on November 20, 2019, 09:32:21 AM
Sorry guys Frank is growing on me, I am liking that he is slowly getting his confidence.  Frank can shoot, Frank can pass, Frank can orchestrate an offense, Frank can play defense.  To me it seems he has no confidence.  Fizz should be in his ear at every practice egging him to shoot and shoot with confidence like every shot was going in.  You can't keep yanking him out of the game because he doesn't shoot, get in his ass.  The more I watch him he reminds me of a young Bruce Bowen except Bowen couldn't shoot a lick, but with confidence started hitting them shots.  Give the keys to Frank build his confidence and lets win some games.  I got a feeling we gonna take this game in Philly.  :D

Still has to be a competition of sorts - as Dennis gets his legs - and Payton - the presumed starting PG from the outset, readies himself for....likely January.

I liked DSJ starting off his one fine performance - but Fiz not giving him that nudge stalled progress (read:  DSJ confidence)

But if its going to be Frank - fine - just be willing to start DSJ second half if
a)  we need a boost, we were stale
b)  he earned it with first half minutes

Some games should be 28-20 in favor of Dennis - and some 24-24.  Minimally speaking - with of course the chance DSJ takes the jon down the line.

If he MUFFS it - is incapable - at least you dont go into yet another offseason with a question by his name.

Meanwhile, watch Duke's   TRE JONES rise the draft boards.  If he stays as a late 1, early 2, we have to be on him.  Has the leadershio skills all 3 of our point guards seem to lack - and could be a 10-year Knick.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 20, 2019, 10:44:37 AM
Does anyone know why NBAdraft.net is giving us the #31 overall selection (listed at end of first round) for 2020?

Thanks
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 20, 2019, 11:08:27 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 20, 2019, 10:44:37 AM
Does anyone know why NBAdraft.net is giving us the #31 overall selection (listed at end of first round) for 2020?

Thanks

Never mind - I got it

They have the #31 improperly listed in round 1.  This pick of course currently goes to Charlotte
Title: Winning
Post by: Kam on November 20, 2019, 11:21:58 AM
Charlie Ward was a great defensive player on a team that played great defense.   
Winning games with scores like 89-83.
Frank and these Knicks can't hold teams under 105.
Thus scoring is MORE important than in CWards' day.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 20, 2019, 11:29:13 AM
Let me know when Robinson becomes Ewing and we acquire an Oakley.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 20, 2019, 12:47:10 PM
career starts

Elfrid 298
Dennis 119
Frank   34

Add 50 more to each. Or 80. Or 100. What changes for whom. Who is going to be where in terms of helping a team win? I know where I'd put my money. Y'all can yapyap.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 20, 2019, 01:18:31 PM
Well, we are on the hook for Frank at 6.17 mil and Dennis for 5.68 mil

Elfrid we can release and owe just 1 mil - so I would think we would let Elfrid play a good amount, determine the proper course (1 mil dump vs 8 mil keep) for '20-'21

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 20, 2019, 02:10:59 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 20, 2019, 03:34:42 AM
So I see an article highlighting that Melo scored 10 in his debut, and was 2-3 of 3's.  Then a bit later down they mention 5 fouls and a team worst -20.  They didn't even bother to get to the 5 turnovers and zero assists.

Just one game, with Lillard out, but seems closer to horrible than good. 

I don't really care about Melo one way or the other.
Though I suspect he's old and spent and won't be much help.

I'm rooting for it to slowly fail solely because I want POR to be desperate for a PF from Dec 15 on.

Dream

On

Dude
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 20, 2019, 02:29:01 PM
Cant help the guy.  He thinks Melo is a PF

Portland has a Nurkic-Whiteside duo on tap, with Collins and Gasol in tow - down the line.  Melo is there for perimeter shooting, amidst the early struggles of guys like Bazemore, who is a 3.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Merciless on November 20, 2019, 04:14:14 PM
Count me in the camp of probably one, that wants to see Melo succeed. Mofo gave almost everything he had while here under some suspect coaches and GMs that failed miserably to surround him with the proper talent. He played hurt, gave his all and took on a tsunami of criticism unlike any player in recent memory....and it didn't break him, nor did he ever speak poorly of the franchise. Class.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 20, 2019, 04:23:27 PM
Melo can keep up with exactly 0 perimeter players in the NBA. D alone makes him a PF, even if he’s stretching the floor.

It’s not very likely Melo reaches his guarantee date with Portland.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 20, 2019, 04:32:04 PM
If he doesnt - off his 2-3 from deep, he will catch on with someone else.
Title: Game Time
Post by: Kam on November 20, 2019, 07:00:06 PM
Let's go Knicks!
Title: Fizlosophy
Post by: Kam on November 20, 2019, 07:08:44 PM
As Damyean Dotson (another player who has seen more minutes in the past six games) explained on Monday, the Knicks' overall strategy is to control the paint.

"That's the plan, try to protect the paint and make them spread out," he said. "Our whole goal is to protect the paint."

The Knicks rank in the top 10 in defensive rebounding and points allowed in the paint. They also rank in the top 10 in steals. But the protect the paint strategy seems to have left them susceptible to the 3-point shot. Entering play Wednesday, New York ranked 19th in opponent 3-point field goal percentage and was allowing the fifth-most 3-point attempts per game in the NBA.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 20, 2019, 07:22:29 PM
Keep shooting, Nillie. (2 shots in 5 minutes)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 20, 2019, 07:24:28 PM
I jinxed us by turning it on
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 20, 2019, 07:25:59 PM
Have to be thinking Philly fans are criticizing Coach Brown's offense as well.

Wow - is this ugly on both ends.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 20, 2019, 07:29:26 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 20, 2019, 07:22:29 PM
Keep shooting, Nillie. (2 shots in 5 minutes)

He doesn't even know when he is hot.  Clyde was complaining that Frank baffled him with his hesitation after a made three.  Never seen a player turn off his own water like that.  Heat check isn't in Frank's english vocab yet.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 20, 2019, 08:11:24 PM
Frankie 3-3 7pts in 14 minutes 0 ast
Smith 4-7 10pts in 10 minutes 2 ast 1 TO
Title: YES!
Post by: Kam on November 20, 2019, 08:38:08 PM
GREAT DEFENSE / GREAT OFFENSE

This is the Knicks.

Where have you been?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 20, 2019, 08:44:07 PM
Doncic 29-5-5

2 minutes left




in the HALF!
Title: Frank Knickilina
Post by: Kam on November 20, 2019, 08:45:06 PM
WHERE HAS THIS BEEN!
Title: Re: YES!
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 20, 2019, 08:45:28 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 20, 2019, 08:38:08 PM
GREAT DEFENSE / GREAT OFFENSE

This is the Knicks.

Where have you been?

About to see a run....
Title: @TommyBeer
Post by: Kam on November 20, 2019, 08:51:10 PM

Frank Ntilikina and Dame Dotson have shared the floor together for 47 minutes this season.
Yes, that's a small sample size, but in those 47 mins, the Knicks are:
* allowing a minuscule 74.0 points per 100 possessions


* scoring a massive 117.5 points per 100 possessions
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Merciless on November 20, 2019, 09:02:50 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 20, 2019, 08:44:07 PM
Doncic 29-5-5

2 minutes left




in the HALF!

Who gives a fuck! Your team is in a dog fight on the road, competing and making us proud!
Title: Melo
Post by: carlos123 on November 20, 2019, 09:05:13 PM
Quote from: Merciless on November 20, 2019, 04:14:14 PM
Count me in the camp of probably one, that wants to see Melo succeed. Mofo gave almost everything he had while here under some suspect coaches and GMs that failed miserably to surround him with the proper talent. He played hurt, gave his all and took on a tsunami of criticism unlike any player in recent memory....and it didn't break him, nor did he ever speak poorly of the franchise. Class.

Word.

Make it a camp of two.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 20, 2019, 09:09:05 PM
Bad b-ball.

Barrett screaming for the ball, wide open in left corner

2 guys said nyet

So we turn it over, then a puzzled RJ forces a shot in next possession.
Title: Same old Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 20, 2019, 09:09:33 PM
Lucy and that damn football.... argghhhh 
fall for it every time
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Merciless on November 20, 2019, 09:15:17 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 20, 2019, 09:09:05 PM
Bad b-ball.

Barrett screaming for the ball, wide open in left corner

2 guys said nyet

So we turn it over, then a puzzled RJ forces a shot in next possession.

Agree - two possessions in a row one with Julius that you referenced and the other with a poor shot by Marcus has turned the tide a bit.

Gut check time for our young team having lost the lead in the 4th. This will be a learning experience at worst.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 20, 2019, 09:16:54 PM
Morris is just a gooooood fucking player
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Merciless on November 20, 2019, 09:18:52 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 20, 2019, 09:16:54 PM
Morris is just a gooooood fucking player

I'm starting to come around to him but lord he takes some questionable shots at times. Me first attitude at the worst times.

Last 3 possessions prove my point
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 20, 2019, 09:20:17 PM
Was clearly fouled.  5 point swing by zebras
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 20, 2019, 09:20:51 PM
I knew we wouldnt see Smith again

Had a decent night
Title: Why are you still watching
Post by: Kam on November 20, 2019, 09:21:22 PM
We aint getting off the canvas tonight.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 20, 2019, 09:28:45 PM
DRAW UP A FUCKING INBOUNDS PLAY, FOOL!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 20, 2019, 09:36:43 PM
lol. 


Code: [Select]
1:27 Mike Scott makes 29-foot three pointer (Ben Simmons assists) 95 - 99
When Mike Scott hit that shot it was ovah.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 20, 2019, 09:40:48 PM
Horrible no call on the Morris layup.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Merciless on November 20, 2019, 09:52:27 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 20, 2019, 09:40:48 PM
Horrible no call on the Morris layup.

Down 1 with a 1:30 left..your boy gets a steal and has numerous options to feed 2 ahead of him for an easy deuce and the lead..instead he selfishly forces a bad layup....gets criticized by Clyde for it while Mike Scott comes down and hits the 3 and the nail in the coffin referenced above by Kam.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 20, 2019, 10:15:11 PM
heh

My boy.  Yep.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 21, 2019, 04:32:51 AM
A big long Franc article:
https://www.postingandtoasting.com/2019/11/19/20969702/frank-ntilikina-has-always-been-a-dog

I wasn't in favor of adding Elf, unless it meant trading one of Jr. Smith or Franc.  Because otherwise it just meant Franc wasn't going to get PG minutes.  Similar to last year with Mud & Burke.
Then Fizz compounded the problem by playing Trier and RJB at PG (since we only had 3 real PG's who needed minutes).  Really only injuries and circumstances have allowed Franc to get significant starting PG minutes.   And he's doing all right with them.  I hope Franc stays as our starting PG, Smith backs him up, and Elf is on the shelf until either injury or trade moves him to backup PG.
We need to develop Franc and Jr. Smith, so at least one is a significant long-term cog, and the other at least ups his trade value. 

With all the iffy D we get from Portis, Knox, Randle, it's good to have Franc and one of Taj/Mitch out there to keep the pressure on.

Only saw the highlights, but there were a couple '6er highlights where either Smith or Knox made bad reads for easy buckets.

Mike Scott has been a certified KnicKiller for a long time.  But Ennis was doing damage as well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 21, 2019, 05:35:19 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 20, 2019, 02:29:01 PM
Cant help the guy.  He thinks Melo is a PF

Portland has a Nurkic-Whiteside duo on tap, with Collins and Gasol in tow - down the line.  Melo is there for perimeter shooting, amidst the early struggles of guys like Bazemore, who is a 3.

Wrong.  As though you've never heard of a stretch 4 before.
Melo is there because they have no PF on the roster and have been starting Rodney Hood there at times, since Zach's shoulder fell off.

NurK & Whitehead are both C's and unlikely to play together besides spot minutes.  Pa Gasol just retired at 39 after a HoF career.
Melo be there starting PF until Zach returns, when Melo will graciously move to the bench.  Ha!  Melo will whine and put Stotts in a bad situation.  Unless, as is likely, the Melo experiment is so bad by the time Zach is ready that no one cares what Melo thinks/wants.

Melo is a short-term stopgap and they'll worry about longer implications if they cna save the ship.  Maybe Melo will be part of the package POR sends us, along with Simons, in return for Morris . . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on November 21, 2019, 09:12:25 AM
Gosh that Fizzdale can fuk up a wet dream.  2 things I noticed Mitchell will jump for any ball fake and Taj was playing his ass off, hitting 3's, hitting the midrange making Embid leave the paint and THE DAMN PICK AND ROLL WAS WORKING, why didn't we keep running that play.  Fizz never calls timeouts to stop the bleeding, he just watch a 17 point lead dwindle away and always looks confused.  Rail in Randolph and Morris in crunch time let them know to look for the open man.  This has hapnd in every close game the same routine and the same results.  Is this guy watching the basketball film or is he watching porn.  Fizz drives me insane and If DSmith don't spit that damn gum out, playing badly and chewing gum just don't go together.  Grrrrrrr
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 21, 2019, 10:03:27 AM
Quote from: jaqdavisone on November 21, 2019, 09:12:25 AM
Fizz never calls timeouts to stop the bleeding, he just watch a 17 point lead dwindle away and always looks confused. Grrrrrrr

Fizz isn't used to having leads let alone ones that dwindle away.  I think he thought the game was won.   But this is a good point.  He is far and away the least prepared game coach i've ever seen on this level.  As far as i can tell his best work is with the cameras in his face.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 21, 2019, 10:31:46 AM
Game tied 90-90

In a 1 minute span, 5:06 to 4:03 - RJ Barrett clanks three shots and commits an offensive foul.  Tough to do.

Sub him out?  No.  He stayed on the court, finished the game, not heard from again til he committed an intentional foul with seconds left.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 21, 2019, 10:39:18 AM
I suspect one reason players like Fizz is he lets them play through mistakes and doesn't correct their bad tendencies much.

Oops, that was two reasons.
Sure, players like a coach that does not holding guys accountable much, but that doesn't help the team much.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 21, 2019, 10:41:21 AM
Knicks keep getting beat by guys that have been kept in the game because they are hot.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 21, 2019, 10:45:35 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 21, 2019, 10:31:46 AM
Game tied 90-90

In a 1 minute span, 5:06 to 4:03 - RJ Barrett clanks three shots and commits an offensive foul.  Tough to do.

Sub him out?  No.  He stayed on the court, finished the game, not heard from again til he committed an intentional foul with seconds left.

That's an interesting observation. Because 2 or 3 games ago, I thought there was a stretch where RJ turned the ball over 3 times in a row — which is really unusual to see — and I was struck that he wasn't removed. Not that he needed to be benched, as much as he might simply be given a chance to settle down or have the coach talk to him. I mean, as good as he can be, he's still a rookie and, presumably, in need of mentoring.
Title: Re: Frank Knickilina
Post by: lesterluv on November 21, 2019, 11:48:03 AM
Quote from: Kam on November 20, 2019, 08:45:06 PM
WHERE HAS THIS BEEN!

For some players, it takes until the 35th career start to DOMINATE ;)

*** Actually, you know how many 75%+ shooting games, DJr has had in 119 career starts, even say 3 for 4? Zero. Elfrid? He's had two over last four seasons..

* Just for fun, Mudiay, 75%+ shooting in game with 5 or more completions...257games, 163 starts, exactly one such event in his career.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 21, 2019, 11:51:04 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 21, 2019, 10:39:18 AM
I suspect one reason players like Fizz is he lets them play through mistakes ....

Unless you are Euro or reluctant to dump up shitshots — fortunately for us, having his job on the line is helping Fiz to question some deeply held tendencies.


**** for those of you who don't reddit, the Frankie stuff is getting pretty hilarious over there. https://www.reddit.com/r/NYKnicks/comments/dzp8f6/the_year_is_2046_questioning_franks_ppg_is_now/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/NYKnicks/comments/dzp8f6/the_year_is_2046_questioning_franks_ppg_is_now/)

The points column in all box scores is now censored, it can only be viewed on the dark net. The steals and blocks column are now size 72 font.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 22, 2019, 12:24:01 PM
A look at Mitchell's problems staying on the floor.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/mitchell-robinson-is-the-knicks-best-player-if-only-he-could-stay-on-the-court/?addata=espn:frontpage (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/mitchell-robinson-is-the-knicks-best-player-if-only-he-could-stay-on-the-court/?addata=espn:frontpage)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 22, 2019, 01:54:10 PM
Which would be just oneof the reasons he isnt Ewing.

Speaking of Patrick - great win last night for his Hoyas vs Shaka Smart andf Texas  - leading them to a tilt with #1 Duke at the Garden tonight.  https://www.casualhoya.com/2019/11/22/20977653/links-georgetown-beats-22-texas-to-face-1-duke-mcclung-akinjo-yurtseven-ewing-wahab-pickett

Big man alert:  Duke's Vernon Carey Jr vs Geoergetown's Omer Yurtseven  https://www.nbadraft.net/players/omer-yurtseven/ - NBA comp Raef LaFrentz

And point guards, you ask?  Dukie Tre Jones vs the Hoyas' James Akinjo  https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/ncaa/damian-lillard-declares-georgetowns-james-akinjo-toughest-point-guard-country
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 22, 2019, 02:17:16 PM
Mitch is Mitch, not anyone else. If the biggest thing keeping this kid from being a top pivot is staying on the floor by not fouling at the tender age of 21 with at least a little more cost control left, that’s just dandy. I think leg strength from hips to toes is just as big, but he will make those strides if he doesn’t jack up his ankles. There’s no rush except saving Fizz’ Job. He’s learning from Taj.

If Dennis doesn’t get steadily more efficient and engaged defensively while pushing the pace more, he may slide to third string behind Payton when Elfrid gets healthy. Pretty sure Elfrid can get his head around and execute the stuff Fizz wants that helps us win.

The worse our record is in this part of the season, the more we can grow down the stretch and still make the lottery.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 22, 2019, 02:24:15 PM
http://dailyknicks.com/2019/11/22/new-york-knicks-can-marcus-morris-boost-trade-value/ (http://dailyknicks.com/2019/11/22/new-york-knicks-can-marcus-morris-boost-trade-value/)

They are suggesting Harkless and Jerome Robinson. I’d give that a serious look come December.

I’d want Kapengele instead of Robinson, and would add a protected second rounder to make it happen. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 22, 2019, 03:27:12 PM
No.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 22, 2019, 04:56:14 PM
Haven't seen Jerome Robinson.
But yeah, I'd be trying to get a pup like him, Simons, DJ Wilson, Giles.  All but Simons aren't playing much and are expendable.

I'd be trying to offer a package to bolster a team's depth and get a yute + a late round pick back.

And you want to identify underused talent before a player blows up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 22, 2019, 05:08:53 PM
Robinson is a sniper - a better Dotson

For half year of Morris - Clippers likely stand pat - and do Knicks want to muddy the SG ranks while adding 3 mil for next year

I think we need more than the big C Fac proposed - and dont see Norris going anywhere without pick(s) coming back.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 22, 2019, 05:29:58 PM
Picks are better because they are easier to put in future deals

Would I be Ok with Robinson?  Sure.

Would I be confident he'd get a shot here?  Nope.

Do I want any part of Harkless?  Nope.

Maybe Fac can come up with  reroute.  But tough when a guy isnt playing well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 22, 2019, 05:43:47 PM
Harkless has the same length contract as Morris, at 11 not 15 mil. The only thing that would have a necessary impact past this season would be the second smaller salary.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 22, 2019, 08:55:43 PM
Clippers have no pick to send us as all are owed to OKC
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 22, 2019, 08:56:54 PM
Find a third team or else no deal with LAC
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 22, 2019, 10:09:38 PM
Prayers for KEMBA
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 22, 2019, 10:10:29 PM
Clippers have no pick to send us as all are owed to OKC


Simple then - dont deal with LAC
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 23, 2019, 06:11:27 AM
The Kemba collision didn't look bad.  Being reported as most likely a concussion.  Which probably takes a week or two to recover depending on severity. 

Hark is a solid role player. 
Good screen setter, defends, can board.
Not sure why his 3's have tailed off, to the point where he doesn't really take them anymore. 
Just don't think he's a great fit in NYK.  Better for a playoff team.
Though as a 2nd unit backup Sf to RJB, he's very credible.
Or could be showcased and then rerouted.

DEN a team to keep an eye on.
Right now they are a nice reg season team.
But to genuinely compete, they need to upgrade their starting Sf from Wil Barton.  They can cash in some of their impressive depth to get a starting SF.

They probably still have their eye on Iggy.
Pedigree player, smart and perfect for the playoffs and guarding LeBJ's, Kawhi, etc.
Morris isn't a perfect fit in DEN as he is fairly similar to Milsap.  And they could use someone to guard elite Wings/F's.
But Morris would up their toughness.

DEN could part with some of Monte Morris, Porter Jr (likely off limits except for a great trade), Torey Craig, barton, Juancho, Beasley. They likely want to keep the first two.  I doubt we're the right dance partner, but they should try to cash in depth for an SF upgrade.  To be a real playoff threat.  Not gonna play 12 guys in the playoffs.

I though Jerami Grant would make a big impact, but seems he's just been okay and reasonably helpful.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 23, 2019, 11:54:09 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 23, 2019, 06:11:27 AM

DEN a team to keep an eye on.
Right now they are a nice reg season team.
But to genuinely compete, they need to upgrade their starting Sf from Wil Barton. 

Will Barton is 6th in the NBA in WAR at 2.0.  Highest on his team by a fair margin.  Millsap a 1.7.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-nba-player-ratings/ (https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-nba-player-ratings/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 23, 2019, 12:10:52 PM
I wouldn't go to War with him.  He's a streaky gunner.
How do you guard LeBJ, Kawhi, Paul George, etc with Barton startin'? 

WB is a career 34% 3-Pt shooter, with his two best years at 37%.  So his current 44% is unlikely to be sustainable.  His 1.7 O-Boards similarly could also be a small sample/hot-start aberration.
Barton is best in a Crawford/Lou W bench flamethrower role, imo.

DEN is built to be a really good regular season team.
And they've got the nice elevation home court advantage and a deep team to compensate for that as well.

Like POR, I just don't see them competing with the Big Boys without an upgrade.  The 2 LA teams and HOU are Top 3 (barring injuries).  And the next tier has DEN, UTA.

DEN needs to decide if they want in the Top Tier, or are content to lose in the 2nd round.  No way do they get to the Finals as constituted.  (I forgot to mention they also have Minute Bol's kid and 2nd round Vanderbilt to sweeten deals with)

POR has to decide if they want to make the playoffs and try crash the Top Tier this year.  5-11, just 1-4 at Home, and starting 35 year old Melo . . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 23, 2019, 12:27:40 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 23, 2019, 11:54:09 AM
Will Barton is 6th in the NBA in WAR at 2.0.  Highest on his team by a fair margin.  Millsap a 1.7.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-nba-player-ratings/ (https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-nba-player-ratings/)

Fwiw, on your link, Barton is tied for 11th in WAR (with Montrezl, and just above DeVonte Graham)
Barton's defensive rating looks suspiciously high.
A number of Nugs with high Def rating -- Milsap and Plumlee tied for 8th best -- so they must be doing something right early on.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 23, 2019, 12:33:25 PM
I dont think its about starters as far as trades go - its about contributors.

Even a guy like Iguodola isnt a lock to start fora team he is dealt to.

As far as NY goes - and who they get back - its about picks.  Especially afterw e have gotten so little in player value from the KP deal (should have tried harder to keep Jordan), I dont think we will be making those mistakes (taking on money for a guy who wont blossom) again any time soon.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 23, 2019, 12:36:17 PM
POR has to decide if they want to make the playoffs and try crash the Top Tier this year.  5-11, just 1-4 at Home, and starting 35 year old Melo . . .


Like I said - Blazers shooting for 8th slot - and wont let go of future contributors just to get it.  Being in the lottery for one year doesnt stall the program that much.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 23, 2019, 12:41:36 PM
How soon til Simons and Nassir are ready to contribute to playoff hoops?  Hell, Zach is still getting settled into being a quality starter.  How many years of Lillard and McC's prime do you waste waiting for pups to become ready?

Iggy is old.  Wouldn't need to start.
But if primed, would play 20+ and crucially D up some top guns.
DEN & UTA could really use the Ig Function.
Both of those teams can wait for Iggy and mostly deploy him later in the season and the playoffs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 23, 2019, 05:25:31 PM
I think with good health POR gives LA a tough series THIS year should they sneak in

Capable of ripping off 8-10 straight wins when right

We'll see

Lillard's current back woes are a concern

I do expect wins for Blazers the next 2 games, taking them to 7-11.  With Suns cpming back to earth and plenty of time.....
Title: 1st quarter
Post by: Kam on November 23, 2019, 08:09:34 PM
Two days rust vs Spurs on no days rest

pathetic.
Title: Hey Ntilikina
Post by: Kam on November 23, 2019, 08:11:27 PM
Randle inbounds you the ball....
You take one, two dribbles and pass it right back?!
You do that more often than you keep the ball yourself.

How about YOU bring the effing ball over halfcourt and SET UP A PLAY.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Merciless on November 23, 2019, 08:36:03 PM
Typical...what's it gonna take to get these fuckers motivated. Just invite everyone into your house and let them shit all over your floor.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 23, 2019, 08:45:08 PM
Ouch. Frank a tidy -25
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 23, 2019, 08:46:30 PM
Wide open threes remains a major problem
Title: Channelling My Innter Merciless
Post by: chipstern on November 23, 2019, 08:51:15 PM
Well, that was fun.

Think Pops has exacted his revenge for the home loss in Texas? 

(https://media.tenor.co/images/a005090415d03c602f73cf4e8dcc6be4/raw)

Marcus Might Want A MULLIGAN. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 23, 2019, 08:55:06 PM
We didn't beat SA in Texas.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 23, 2019, 09:09:29 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 23, 2019, 08:55:06 PM
We didn't beat SA in Texas.


No? 

Early OnSet Alzeheimers? 

[In the preseason?]
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 23, 2019, 09:16:04 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 23, 2019, 09:09:29 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 23, 2019, 08:55:06 PM
We didn't beat SA in Texas.


No? 

Early OnSet Alzeheimers? 

[In the preseason?]

We played the in the opener.  Trailed all game til late 3rd.  Seized the lead. Then Frank fumbled it away to end the 3rd and start the 4th and the game was lost.
Title: FUN Fact
Post by: chipstern on November 23, 2019, 09:16:22 PM
Jakob Peltl?

The future #1 conveyed to Toronto by Knicks GM Glen "White, But NotTooBright" Grunwald in his successful scheme to help the Raptors divest of themselves Andrea Bargnini from their roster. 

Grunwald?

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRe2FFZDXu1QQIIR1yWhl17iE_P9EyJJqzCHC23IClh2AqSepSUaQ&s)

Might just have well been Tootsie Giuliani?

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 23, 2019, 09:16:56 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 23, 2019, 09:16:04 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 23, 2019, 09:09:29 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 23, 2019, 08:55:06 PM
We didn't beat SA in Texas.


No? 

Early OnSet Alzeheimers? 

[In the preseason?]

We played the in the opener.  Trailed all game til late 3rd.  Seized the lead. Then Frank fumbled it away to end the 3rd and start the 4th and the game was lost.

Ah, the dreaded Moral Victory. 
Title: Re: FUN Fact
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 23, 2019, 09:35:03 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 23, 2019, 09:16:22 PM
Jakob Peltl?

The future #1 conveyed to Toronto by Knicks GM Glen "White, But NotTooBright" Grunwald in his successful scheme to help the Raptors divest of themselves Andrea Bargnini from their roster. 

Grunwald?

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRe2FFZDXu1QQIIR1yWhl17iE_P9EyJJqzCHC23IClh2AqSepSUaQ&s)

Might just have well been Tootsie Giuliani?

Fucking stop already
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 23, 2019, 09:42:55 PM
Fat Giuliani looks like Mike Francessa lol
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 23, 2019, 09:44:24 PM
RJ crunch time yaks the layup
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 23, 2019, 09:45:58 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 23, 2019, 09:44:24 PM
RJ crunch time yaks the layup

It was a good look.  He'll hit it eventually...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 23, 2019, 09:46:39 PM
Frank the Clank follows up
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 23, 2019, 09:47:15 PM
Somehow Barrett is a +3
Title: Julius Randle
Post by: Kam on November 23, 2019, 09:52:10 PM
Isn't really that good of an NBA player.
and he's your marquee guy...

TRADE BAIT
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Merciless on November 23, 2019, 09:59:34 PM
Done with Frank already.

Chip...you can tuck him into your rose colored panties along with the rest of those great Knick draft picks and pick-ups you've defended over the years.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 23, 2019, 10:05:07 PM
There may be many things wrong with the players, but this team needs a coach.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 23, 2019, 10:10:59 PM
Can't blame frank for the loss (9pts 9 ast) but i don't blame anyone for having issues with his play-making.

Dude has never scored 20 in an NBA game. He won't win games for you.  Best you can ask is for him not to lose it.

That spells back-up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 23, 2019, 10:22:01 PM
I do expect wins for Blazers the next 2 games, taking them to 7-11.  With Suns cpming back to earth and plenty of time.....


Wow

Down 4 with :07
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 23, 2019, 10:30:10 PM
Yeah...cough...Frank was good

Nice extended run for llington
Title: Re: Julius Randle
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 23, 2019, 10:32:22 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 23, 2019, 09:52:10 PM
Isn't really that good of an NBA player.
and he's your marquee guy...

TRADE BAIT

Not playing consistently well
Title: Re: Julius Randle
Post by: carlos123 on November 24, 2019, 12:10:34 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 23, 2019, 10:32:22 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 23, 2019, 09:52:10 PM
Isn't really that good of an NBA player.
and he's your marquee guy...

TRADE BAIT

Not playing consistently well

Don’t see any fish falling for that bait.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 24, 2019, 12:25:21 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 23, 2019, 10:05:07 PM
There may be many things wrong with the players, but this team needs a coach.

@TommyBeer
Knicks have played eight home games this season.

They’ve trailed by at least 28 points in half of them - four games.

28 points.
28
Title: Re: Fizlosophy
Post by: Kam on November 24, 2019, 12:31:27 AM
Quote from: Kam on November 20, 2019, 07:08:44 PM
As Damyean Dotson (another player who has seen more minutes in the past six games) explained on Monday, the Knicks' overall strategy is to control the paint.

"That's the plan, try to protect the paint and make them spread out," he said. "Our whole goal is to protect the paint."


Can we admit this is a failed idea and change stategy?  Why don't you guard the 3 instead Coach?  3 is more than 2.
Title: Focus where ya likes.
Post by: lesterluv on November 24, 2019, 12:50:55 AM
Quote from: Kam on November 23, 2019, 10:10:59 PM
Can't blame frank for the loss (9pts 9 ast) but i don't blame anyone for having issues with his play-making.

Dude has never scored 20 in an NBA game. He won't win games for you.  Best you can ask is for him not to lose it.

That spells back-up.

Lol, yeah his playmaking. Heck of a lot of room to grow there for sure.

9 dimes tonight. 0 turnovers. 6 you know whats. A couple more forced airballs. Sweet 36th start. Onward & upward.

Now some of the crap I saw from our 200+ start guys had me a little, er....


*** Liked seeing Fiz move to Barrett + two guards in game tonight (late of course, but more progress, onward, upwards). It horrible that we have to endure it, and only an embarrassment of a franchise would allow it, but yes, as Bo sez, this is another development year for our should-be-managing-a-high school-squad coach. He is developing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 24, 2019, 01:54:15 AM
Quote from: Kam on November 23, 2019, 10:10:59 PM
Can't blame frank for the loss (9pts 9 ast) but i don't blame anyone for having issues with his play-making.

Dude has never scored 20 in an NBA game. He won't win games for you.  Best you can ask is for him not to lose it.

That spells back-up.

Of course he isn't the reason the Knicks suck.

But offensively he may be the most predictable and unthreatening guard in the NBA. It's depressing to see him frequently pass it off to let someone else direct a play. Sometimes I get the sense — perhaps because of his young age — that it's a matter of coaching. It feels like he plays on the offensive end the way they want him to play.

And I've got no idea why.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 24, 2019, 02:55:04 AM
Our whole goal should be to protect the 3-Point line.  And funnel players in to Mitch and Taj.  Can't be worse than giving up 3's and letting perimeter G's get redhot.

Randle's kind of a throwback PF bull.  I was mildly encouraged that he hit 3's reasonably well last year.  But not my kind of player.  Hard to find a team that needs a post-up brute with poor D.  Maybe Les can send him tapes of ZachRandolph on Memf.

Melo was 0-8 on 3's.
POR has played by far the most Road games 12 (4-8) and just 5 Homers (1-4).  So there's that.  Of their 5 W's, one was in OT v ATL,  plus a 2 Pt win v DAL and 3 Pt W v OKC.  Their only convincing W was 2nd game of the season v. a SAC team that started off terrible.
Title: pre-NBA Knick
Post by: bodiddley on November 24, 2019, 04:10:53 AM
Quote
Wataru Misaka enrolled at the University of Utah and joined their Utes basketball team. The young team finished with an 18–3 record in the 1943–44 season. They were invited to both the NCAA Tournament and the NIT Tournament. The team chose the latter because it was more prestigious at the time, and meant a trip to New York City. The team lost to Kentucky in the first round, but was given a chance to play in the NCAA tournament due to Arkansas's withdrawal because of a team accident. The team took advantage of this and won the tournament, beating Dartmouth 42–40 in overtime. Two nights later, Misaka and his team played the NIT champions, St. John's, in an exhibition match at Madison Square Garden, where his team won 43–36.[16]

Misaka was later drafted for World War II and rose to the rank of staff sergeant. After two years, he returned to the University of Utah and rejoined the team. The team won their second national championship in four years. Because of their success, Utah was invited to the NIT championship tournament in New York. The team slid by the first two rounds before beating Adolph Rupp's Kentucky powerhouse 49–45 to capture the 1947 NIT championship title. Misaka played the whole game, holding Ralph Beard, the national player of the year, to just one point.[9]

Professional basketball career
He was selected by the New York Knicks in the 1947 BAA Draft. He debuted as the first non-Caucasian player in the BAA (later known as the NBA) in 1947, the same year that Jackie Robinson broke the baseball color line.[17][18] The first African American did not play in the NBA until 1950.[17] There were no press conferences or interviews to commemorate Misaka's first game.[19] "It wasn't a big thing," he said. "Nobody cared."[19]

Misaka played in three games and scored seven points in the 1947–48 season before being cut from the team. He believed he was cut because the Knicks had too many guards.[20][21][7] Misaka said he did not feel any discrimination from teammates or opposing players during his time with the Knicks,[22] but he did not mingle with everyone.[18] During training camp, he was only close with future Hall-of-Famer Carl Braun.

Interesting stuff.
I like how they chose the NIT, lost, but then played in the NCAA as well when another team couldn't make it.  Won the NCAA, then beat the NIT champs in an exhibition right after.
Things used to be more informal, more improvised.

Misaka served in Hiroshima and Nagasaki as an interpreter after the war-ending mass killings.  Then returned to win another college championship. Wat was 5'9".  Just died at 95.  First non-white to play professional hoops in the US.

Btw, segregation was primarily but not solely targeted at blacks and really meant Whites Only, so Japanese were routinely barred from restaurants and other public places.  More tolerated because seen as less threatening and fewer in numbers (and closer to white), but still discriminated against.  It's not like German immigrants in Milwaukee or Cincinnati were rounded up and deported (though many did get harassed).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 24, 2019, 12:45:02 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 24, 2019, 02:55:04 AM

Randle's kind of a throwback PF bull.  I was mildly encouraged that he hit 3's reasonably well last year.  But not my kind of player.  Hard to find a team that needs a post-up brute with poor D.  Maybe Les can send him tapes of ZachRandolph on Memf.


When I watch Randle, I see what I imagine the Zach-Haters saw when they watched my beloved  Z-Bo. Which makes me optimistic Randle could become more like Good Z Bo — but right now he's making Bad Z Bo plays about 8 -12 times a game, the original Z Bo never did that at his worst...wildcard is some actual coaching, which it's certainly not clear he's going to get.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 24, 2019, 01:19:47 PM
Reminder

Knicks-Nets at 6 today
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 24, 2019, 02:36:29 PM
One thing about a poorly designed offense - it can lead to bad looking turnovers

Randle hasnt played his best, for sure - I have already said - but so many of his turnovers are of the "what kind of play design was that>" than simple fumbling miscues (like late last night when he just flung the ball off his dribble)

The positive of  guys like Randle and Morris IS that they can get their own shot - and can score when guarded, things we criticize other players for NOT being able to do.

Better design - and your expected to be prime players will play better and look WISER.
Title: Frank makes history
Post by: Kam on November 24, 2019, 03:23:26 PM
The nine assists, six steals and no turnovers has only been done 19 times before, and Ntilikina is the youngest player ever to post those numbers in a game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 24, 2019, 04:48:05 PM
One of Frank's biggest problems as a passer is not getting deep enough into the paint, to force help defenders to come and to open up those coveted passing windows. And he has the ability to do so/and has had the opportunities to do so but hasn't taken them.

https://twitter.com/DallasAmico_/status/1198693190305341440?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1198713382779514880&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ultimateknicks.com%2Fforum%2Ftopic.asp%3Ft%3D59595 (https://twitter.com/DallasAmico_/status/1198693190305341440?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1198713382779514880&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ultimateknicks.com%2Fforum%2Ftopic.asp%3Ft%3D59595)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 24, 2019, 04:50:06 PM
The link above shows Frank still plays hesistant... not taking the open lane... not taking one extra dribble into the paint to draw the paint defender.
Title: RJ out
Post by: Kam on November 24, 2019, 04:52:00 PM
KKnox starts at SG!?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 24, 2019, 05:38:22 PM
DAL going Big, starting Funky-Smith & Hardaway with Doncic at Point.  Smallest starter is Tim Jr at 6'5".

Tim 27 & 4 Ass
KZ 20 & 12 Boards.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 24, 2019, 06:29:04 PM
Dennis keeps settin em up - and teammates misfire

He is playing the way you all say you want Frank to at the O end
Title: Livin by the three
Post by: Kam on November 24, 2019, 06:47:17 PM
The three ball has been our best weapon tonight.
Title: Drive and dish
Post by: Kam on November 24, 2019, 06:52:19 PM
Dennis drives the ball into the teeth of the D in the paint with his head up looking to make a play always with three options in mind.  Either score it himself (work in progress) or set up option A (the roller) or B (the corner man).

Frank needs to get to that point. Yes.   It is essential.  Dennis doesn't pick up his dribble. Frank picks it up too soon.  Dennis is reluctant to pass unless it will lead to a scoring opportunity.  Frank passes like a SG.  He makes the right pass regardless of if it will  lead to a bucket.  But too often he does that to a fault and precludes being the scorer himself.  Sometimes the team will NEED YOU young man to step up and lead the scoring charge.  Smith gets this.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 24, 2019, 06:58:10 PM
And Frank can guard 3s

Which really makes him - if his shooting improves - tell 'em, Bo -

a 3 and D wing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 24, 2019, 06:59:58 PM
Knicks just went down 11, had a time out and a perfect time to reinsert an effective Smith Jr, against what has been scripted.

Nope.
Title: 61-61 late 3rd
Post by: Kam on November 24, 2019, 07:31:53 PM
Frank and Dennis are in the game together + Randle + Taj + Morris
Title: down 67-63
Post by: Kam on November 24, 2019, 07:33:43 PM
Frank and Taj out.  Ellington and Mitch in.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 24, 2019, 07:58:50 PM
Disagree with Clyde and Mike.  Robinson needs to play hard, block everything, not "give up the layup sometimes"

Saved one point with 5th foul.  Momentum stopper - didnt want to go down 10

Fiz should have left him out there
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 24, 2019, 07:59:39 PM
Will we see Dennis again?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Merciless on November 24, 2019, 08:08:03 PM
 Who the hell knows. Fizdale really is a moron.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 24, 2019, 08:09:51 PM
Good win if we get it
Title: Ellington
Post by: Kam on November 24, 2019, 08:13:39 PM
Best game as a Knick for Wayne
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Merciless on November 24, 2019, 08:31:44 PM
Any idea why Trier doesnt get any minutes. Kid can score which we lack at times. I can't fucking watch Frankie shoot open jumpers and miss any longer. The kid is now a liability down the stretch.

Sad to say, their tier 2 players just much better than ours.

No moral victories...just another team that comes into our house and beats us.....and without their best player no less.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 24, 2019, 08:35:42 PM
Even game

Not even sure we were outcoached tonight

Some guys are playing well....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 24, 2019, 08:45:16 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 24, 2019, 08:35:42 PM
Even game

Not even sure we were outcoached tonight

Some guys are playing well....

Consider we had to shoot lights out from the 3 to just be in the game.  So the players mask Fizdales follies.   Its not just Fizdales in game decisions that lead to being outcoached, its his philosophies.  He empowers the wrong players.  Looks like he's just into fostering relationships and being everyone's friend.  Not a taskmaster.   

So yeah... you can say we were outcoached the minute we took the floor.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Merciless on November 24, 2019, 08:53:09 PM
Fizdale in the post game on the Nets -- "They're really hard to guard"...sigh

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 24, 2019, 08:59:38 PM
Quote from: Merciless on November 24, 2019, 08:53:09 PM
Fizdale in the post game on the Nets -- "They're really hard to guard"...sigh

Wally and Alan insist that Fizdale is coaching them up in the locker room. 

But where is the proof?  I don't think he is taking them to task even in private.

We don't see bad play corrected.  We see the same shit every game.   

It's just this game we made our threes and made it look like we knew what we were doing.

We are bereft of a system.  Fizdale is the guy you get to coach superstars.  Stroke their egos.

Not the guy to whip any raw recruits into shape.   No boot camps.   Just a happy go lucky goofball that Fiz.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Merciless on November 24, 2019, 09:13:27 PM
I would hate to play for this motherfucker -- players can't get into a rhythm and probably have no idea what he's thinking, this team lacks leadership from the top too. When he's 15 games under .500 he'll be another Knick stat in the history books cashing a check he doesn't deserve.

This is as much on Mills and Perry...this is their guy, this is their team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 24, 2019, 09:22:04 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 24, 2019, 08:35:42 PM

Not even sure we were outcoached tonight


Yup, once we got over the Knox at two-guard start (there is some universe in which Fizdale is a genius, not this one), not terrible.

Would surely have loved more DJ/Frank overlap than the little taste we got. DJr. starting to get a little bit of rhythm. Nice.

Needed some better plays and playcalling at the end, but, you know, still a development year for coach. Seen worse.


**** hoping to see him get a lot more rhythm, cause the value of the Mavs picks that came with him are dropping every single day -- along with a win streak, Mavs now have best point differential in the west
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 24, 2019, 09:37:36 PM
Quote from: Merciless on November 24, 2019, 08:31:44 PM
Any idea why Trier doesnt get any minutes. Kid can score which we lack at times. I can't fucking watch Frankie shoot open jumpers and miss any longer. The kid is now a liability down the stretch.

Personally, I love watching him shoot and miss, cause missing means he's shooting them. More than 10 FG attempts for second time all season. Excellent. They will fall. The stroke is good. Satisfactory 37th career start.

*** Oh, Trier doesn't get minutes cause he sucks as a winning basketball player at this point in his career. He'll get some though so don't worry.

*** Now why this logic doesn't apply to Knox? I'm not sure, but at least his minutes — and free reign to suck — have been substantially reduced, tonight's ridiculous starting nod notwithstanding. I'm not Knocking Knox by the way. I'm actually impressed that he is actually getting better as a basketball player. He's just starting from such a subterranean level that it's going to be a long, slow climb to hoops IQ sea level. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 24, 2019, 09:48:27 PM
I want Frank to shoot more.  He won't get better at shooting by shooting fewer shots.  He needs the reps.  He needs in game reps in the first 2nd and 3rd quarters, not just all of a sudden 3 shots in 4 possessions in crunch time when he has only taken three shots all game.   Shoot earlier in the game.  Make the defense think about you earlier in the game.  Then be a decoy later on.  Obvious good things come from taking more shots for Frankie... Not the 7 a game he was putting up for a while there.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 24, 2019, 10:12:54 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on November 24, 2019, 09:37:36 PM
Quote from: Merciless on November 24, 2019, 08:31:44 PM
Any idea why Trier doesnt get any minutes. Kid can score which we lack at times. I can't fucking watch Frankie shoot open jumpers and miss any longer. The kid is now a liability down the stretch.

Personally, I love watching him shoot and miss, cause missing means he's shooting them. More than 10 FG attempts for second time all season. Excellent. They will fall. The stroke is good. Satisfactory 37th career start.

*** Oh, Trier doesn't get minutes cause he sucks as a winning basketball player at this point in his career. He'll get some though so don't worry.

*** Now why this logic doesn't apply to Knox? I'm not sure, but at least his minutes — and free reign to suck — have been substantially reduced, tonight's ridiculous starting nod notwithstanding. I'm not Knocking Knox by the way. I'm actually impressed that he is actually getting better as a basketball player. He's just starting from such a subterranean level that it's going to be a long, slow climb to hoops IQ sea level. 

Agree with wanting him to shoot more. But Merciless is right. I have never seen Frank hit a clutch shot in the last two minutes. And he has had plenty of chances. Every time he takes a big shot, I'm thinking "Here it comes...."

Just how long can that go on?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 24, 2019, 10:14:18 PM
Frank

I think he will keep getting ten shots if he keeps getting 32, 34, 36 minutes

But you see how the 9 assists were fool's gold, right?  An outlier.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 25, 2019, 01:30:38 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 24, 2019, 06:58:10 PM
And Frank can guard 3s
Which really makes him - if his shooting improves - tell 'em, Bo -
a 3 and D wing.

Uh, er.  Two problems.
He can't make 3's.
And now you've made Franc an undersized defender.
Where an advantage he has as a combo G is his size.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 25, 2019, 01:37:57 AM
The recent 9 assist game and the 17 point on 8 shots game may be unusual for Frank, but they aren’t outliers in the way Portis’ Bulls’ revenge game was an outlier.

Frank is elevating his game as a scorer and facilitator bit by bit while providing exemplary defensive work.

I’m actually pretty content with the roster and am curious what the team would look like with a coach.

I enjoyed Frank’s one open court drive. Even on the layup he missed that Taj followed you can see him find a good line of attack. If he hits those threes and draws hard close outs, more of the game will open up for him in the half court. He needs to keep shooting and working on his shot.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 25, 2019, 01:39:50 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 24, 2019, 07:58:50 PM
Disagree with Clyde and Mike.  Robinson needs to play hard, block everything, not "give up the layup sometimes"

Saved one point with 5th foul.  Momentum stopper - didnt want to go down 10

Need to play smart.
Needs to stay down more.  Don't try to block everything.

5th foul, DeAndretheGiant made both FT's putting Nets up 9.

In general, Mitch out there an extra 5-10 minutes is worth more than 1 or 2 more points for the opponent. 
Smart Bigs in foul trouble sometimes concede the layup.
Comes with maturity and better judgement.

This game got only 19 mins from Mitch.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 25, 2019, 01:59:34 AM
Seemed like an odd game from Morris.
1Q & 4Q he was messy, until he started bombing in 3's late 4Q.  But went off in the middle frames.  Apparently two bad streaks and two good streaks (2&3 Q's).  Finished with good numbers. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 25, 2019, 07:34:23 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 25, 2019, 01:37:57 AM
The recent 9 assist game and the 17 point on 8 shots game may be unusual for Frank, but they aren’t outliers in the way Portis’ Bulls’ revenge game was an outlier.

Yes... Outlier. Fool's gold. Umm....how about just early season-high.

Outlier. Look back to Frank's rookie year. Hit 7 or more assists four times before he'd played his first 10 games in the league, 25 min or less each time. The boy can make plays. No worries.

Speaking of "outliers." 23-13-3-2-1 +32. Outlier or somebody getting their sea legs back down in Tx?

***folks really working really hard on this
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Merciless on November 25, 2019, 08:31:32 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on November 24, 2019, 09:37:36 PM
Quote from: Merciless on November 24, 2019, 08:31:44 PM
Any idea why Trier doesnt get any minutes. Kid can score which we lack at times. I can't fucking watch Frankie shoot open jumpers and miss any longer. The kid is now a liability down the stretch.

Personally, I love watching him shoot and miss, cause missing means he's shooting them. More than 10 FG attempts for second time all season. Excellent. They will fall. The stroke is good. Satisfactory 37th career start.

Understand the thought process but this ain't travel basketball for 8th graders. Mofo needs to produce in the 4th or sit. His defense wasnt great either...Would have rather seen DS jr in that spot attacking and kicking.
Title: Gimme the outlier over the trend.
Post by: lesterluv on November 25, 2019, 08:37:45 AM
Mudiay, 8 of last 9 games, more turnovers than assists.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 25, 2019, 08:39:52 AM
Where an advantage he has as a combo G is his size.


He switches off the guards a good 50-60% of the time - and no, with that wingspan I dont see him as undersized guarding the 3.  I dont think they can shoot over him or will bother trying to post.

This is all for the new coach, of course, who will do less switching.

Can he shoot 35-38% from deep consistently?  Maybe  But you are right - that corner jumper yesterday - my God - was pivotal in his development.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 25, 2019, 08:40:32 AM
Quote from: Merciless on November 25, 2019, 08:31:32 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on November 24, 2019, 09:37:36 PM
Quote from: Merciless on November 24, 2019, 08:31:44 PM
Any idea why Trier doesnt get any minutes. Kid can score which we lack at times. I can't fucking watch Frankie shoot open jumpers and miss any longer. The kid is now a liability down the stretch.

Personally, I love watching him shoot and miss, cause missing means he's shooting them. More than 10 FG attempts for second time all season. Excellent. They will fall. The stroke is good. Satisfactory 37th career start.

Understand the thought process but this ain't travel basketball for 8th graders. Mofo needs to produce in the 4th or sit. His defense wasnt great either...Would have rather seen DS jr in that spot attacking and kicking.

Of course you would..until you saw the 4 turnovers or the 6 Dinwiddie breeze-bys or 2 passes sailing into the stands. Next to him would have been fine, but Fiz went with Ellington, which was a much better idea than Knox at least.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 25, 2019, 09:02:34 AM
That's inaccurate, Les

Matter of fact one of the key hoops was a blowby of FRANK by Dinwiddie.

The Smith time is coming.  I dont love his demeanor - that only flies when you really produce consistently.  But with his short time it is looking like Dennis might be able to.

The "what do we do with Frank then?  We just paid him for next year" factors in.  Could go either way, I guess.  I am sure NBA foklks are paying attention when DSJ produces numbers in short stints - maybe there is a deal somewhere...... but that of course would need to net us something - not just be a dump - as KP return still needs to be seen as good enough
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 25, 2019, 09:43:33 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on November 25, 2019, 08:40:32 AM

Of course you would..until you saw the 4 turnovers or the 6 Dinwiddie breeze-bys or 2 passes sailing into the stands. Next to him would have been fine, but Fiz went with Ellington, which was a much better idea than Knox at least.

Not implying that those happened. They didn't. DJr...as I noted previously, had a reasonable stint. And I would have liked to have seen him & Frank share more floor.

Rather, that's what likely would have happened and what Merciless would have complained about had he seen him during the period in which he requested to see him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Merciless on November 25, 2019, 10:58:05 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on November 25, 2019, 09:43:33 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on November 25, 2019, 08:40:32 AM

Of course you would..until you saw the 4 turnovers or the 6 Dinwiddie breeze-bys or 2 passes sailing into the stands. Next to him would have been fine, but Fiz went with Ellington, which was a much better idea than Knox at least.

Not implying that those happened. They didn't. DJr...as I noted previously, had a reasonable stint. And I would have liked to have seen him & Frank share more floor.

Rather, that's what likely would have happened and what Merciless would have complained about had he seen him during the period in which he requested to see him.

C'Mon Les... you know that being an armchair Monday Morning Quarterback is the best thing that I do.

However I only call it as I see it. As kid mentioned, that jumper he missed was not only pivotal in his development but also pivotal to a fucking win for us. Need him to produce on the offensive side or sit in the 4th. He's become a bit of a statue in closing minutes and the opponent knows it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 25, 2019, 11:25:50 AM
I wouldn't have expected Jr. Smith to make the corner 3 either ...

Nets were pretty disciplined on D.
There were a number of times where they left Taj, Mitch or Franc open on the perimeter and guarded everyone else.  Twice Taj couldn't find anyone to pass to and finally took the outside J.

Knix again made poor rotations.
There was one early sequence where 3 consecutive Net possessions wound up with a Net completely unguarded.  Prince clanked a hugely open 3, Jarrett Allen got a dunk, and someone else made a 3. 

There was also one play where 3 Knix went to the ball at the top of the arc, and the guy merely passed to the wide open elbow 3 shooter.  At least Franc was cheating over and remained aware of his man who was further out, but two of our Bigs (Morris and Portis?) didn't communicate.

A nice Franc play late, when he and Taj tied up Harris (who seemed to be expecting them to just foul).   1st half, Knix spent a fair amount of time double teaming Dinwiddie out high.  I thought that was an interesting wrinkle from Fizz.  Though most teams/PG's know how to break a trap so far out and centered.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 25, 2019, 11:29:16 AM
I wouldn't have expected Jr. Smith to make the corner 3 either ...


heh

39% vs 32.

But have yor defenders on the court late when trailing.  Thats important.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 25, 2019, 11:31:40 AM
Mitch actions/play/treatment a key part of that loss - not to be lost in all this

I again ask - after next 2 years what do we pay this guy?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 25, 2019, 11:32:30 AM
Like Camby - I deal Mitch for value if possible
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 25, 2019, 11:54:30 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 25, 2019, 11:29:16 AM
39% vs 32.
But have yor defenders on the court late when trailing.  Thats important.

You don't really believe Smith is a 39% 3-Pt shooter.

Jr. Smith is a career . . . 32% 3-Pt shooter.

Only has 18 3-Attempts this year.   So very small sample theater.
Wonder how many corner 3's he's tried this year and what %.  Not that it'd matter, since it'd be so few. 

And just for fun, Jr. Smith is 31-101 on 3's as a Knick, just a hair under 31%.

Otherwise you need to get stops as well as score.
Knix have more offenders than defenders, hence Franc, who is also the current starter (so presumed finisher).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 25, 2019, 12:01:58 PM
Yeah- and Coby White didnt play the 4th quarter against us - didnt finish - because he didnt start




Oh, wait - he did.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 25, 2019, 12:03:16 PM
Bo thinks Frank matches Dennis as an offensive force - as a shooter.  Bo has similar confidence when they rise to shoot the three,

Heh.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 25, 2019, 12:53:08 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 25, 2019, 12:03:16 PM
Bo has similar confidence when they rise to shoot the three,

Yup.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 25, 2019, 12:58:53 PM
Well, lets see how that goes

Happy birthday to Dennis, by the way.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Merciless on November 25, 2019, 01:51:19 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 25, 2019, 11:25:50 AM
I wouldn't have expected Jr. Smith to make the corner 3 either ...


Missing my point. Its not that DSjr makes it. Its that he's far more active than Frankie and can make something happen, drive and kick anyone?

Frankie is a statue in closing minutes on offense. Generally at the top of the key or perimeter.  DS jr far more dangerous for the defense to check and can get the ball to the right guys.

You think it's an accident Frankie is all alone shooting bricks down the stretch of close games???
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 25, 2019, 06:09:12 PM
Frankie was making those shots his rookie season.   I remember liking that he had the courage to take them.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 25, 2019, 06:13:27 PM
I think i'm most confident in Elfrid if the game is close/late.  I trust him to do fewer knucklehead things than Dennis and be a steadier hand Frank.   I believe the organization re-upped Frank to maintain his value for trade.  They don't want Frank.  Frank is from Phil.  They traded for DSJ and signed Elfrid.  Those are two big no-confidence votes in the frenchman.  If anything else, the FO looks better if DSJ or Elf emerge.  Nothing is gained for the FO for Frank to win the competition.

Frank will be traded at some point this season.
Title: It's all a fucking blur......
Post by: lesterluv on November 25, 2019, 07:07:45 PM
Lol, lol, y'all motherfuckers must remember a blizzard of Frankie Clanks in a giant bag of tight games....I sure can't. Can't really remember DJr. or anybody the fuck else making any game winners for that matter.


no, it wasn't DJr. hitting all those gamewinners....Kevin Knox!!!!~ No....JULIUS ZBO...NO....datsun....NO PORTIS...NO....

...It was
mudiay

THE NERVES OF STEEL COLD BLOODED DAGGERMAN HIMSEL....

*** count me in rather see Frank take the 3 than lillhissyfitjr...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 25, 2019, 07:13:00 PM
...who can't do jack shit consistently after 120 NBA starts...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Merciless on November 25, 2019, 07:13:06 PM
I know I'm in the minority on this one.

I like Frank. Seems like a good kid and he has talent but he's a role player that lacks the killer instinct, confidence or bravado that gets players to the next level.

So are we trying to put the best players on the floor to win games and build something concrete to attract FAs and others....or is this about some AAU team trying to develop talent that may or may not ever materialize? Cite his age all you want but the bright spots and highlights are too few and far between with him.

FAs have spoken. They dont want to come to the Knicks given the lack of progress and talent on the team.
Title: I guess he just needs to muff a few passes off the backboard to himself..
Post by: lesterluv on November 25, 2019, 07:39:06 PM
He is rapidly moving into the elite, on one side of the court.

On the other side, he is slowly, but certainly improving in what is yet a handful of consecutive starts with a bozo the clown of a coach.

I'll take that over anyone on the team not named Mitch or RJ.

"Bright spots and highlights are too few and far between with him.."

This is this fucking week, lol, ya...
https://youtu.be/b_j73_AWAUQ (https://youtu.be/b_j73_AWAUQ)
https://youtu.be/y7IKOkNpK3A (https://youtu.be/y7IKOkNpK3A)

The kid is clearly smart..high bbIQ, and in just a few games has already cut down on those weakass passes, has already cut down on those stupidassfouls (wish Mitch could learn the same), shows a bit more on the O each time out. You can moan, groan, do what ya like, call for DJ, call for Elfrid, call for whothehellever is next up on Perry's list, but for me, watching the slow steady up trajec is one of the very few pleasures of this season. I want to see where he is at at START 50, START 70 & START 90.

If ya don't, ya don't. But Elfrid & DJ.s 30.9 & 31.7 lifetime 3pt% in mucho mas minutes don't have me fearing we're missing too many game winners if they're not in.


*** and if it turns out he's a role player in the end, he's a role player, but Doncic or Morant ain't walking in the door regardless.
Title: Re: I guess he just needs to muff a few passes off the backboard to himself..
Post by: Merciless on November 25, 2019, 08:38:39 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on November 25, 2019, 07:39:06 PM
He is rapidly moving into the elite, on one side of the court.

On the other side, he is slowly, but certainly improving in what is yet a handful of consecutive starts with a bozo the clown of a coach.

I'll take that over anyone on the team not named Mitch or RJ.

"Bright spots and highlights are too few and far between with him.."

This is this fucking week, lol, ya...
https://youtu.be/b_j73_AWAUQ (https://youtu.be/b_j73_AWAUQ)
https://youtu.be/y7IKOkNpK3A (https://youtu.be/y7IKOkNpK3A)

The kid is clearly smart..high bbIQ, and in just a few games has already cut down on those weakass passes, has already cut down on those stupidassfouls (wish Mitch could learn the same), shows a bit more on the O each time out. You can moan, groan, do what ya like, call for DJ, call for Elfrid, call for whothehellever is next up on Perry's list, but for me, watching the slow steady up trajec is one of the very few pleasures of this season. I want to see where he is at at START 50, START 70 & START 90.

If ya don't, ya don't. But Elfrid & DJ.s 30.9 & 31.7 lifetime 3pt% in mucho mas minutes don't have me fearing we're missing too many game winners if they're not in.

Fair enough...and can appreciate your desire to watch your seedling grow...but DS jr was in the same draft so I'll see your 2 and raise you 1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSvGgenGLL8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSvGgenGLL8)
Title: Re: I guess he just needs to muff a few passes off the backboard to himself..
Post by: lesterluv on November 25, 2019, 08:53:03 PM
Quote from: Merciless on November 25, 2019, 08:38:39 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on November 25, 2019, 07:39:06 PM
He is rapidly moving into the elite, on one side of the court.

On the other side, he is slowly, but certainly improving in what is yet a handful of consecutive starts with a bozo the clown of a coach.

I'll take that over anyone on the team not named Mitch or RJ.

"Bright spots and highlights are too few and far between with him.."

This is this fucking week, lol, ya...
https://youtu.be/b_j73_AWAUQ (https://youtu.be/b_j73_AWAUQ)
https://youtu.be/y7IKOkNpK3A (https://youtu.be/y7IKOkNpK3A)

The kid is clearly smart..high bbIQ, and in just a few games has already cut down on those weakass passes, has already cut down on those stupidassfouls (wish Mitch could learn the same), shows a bit more on the O each time out. You can moan, groan, do what ya like, call for DJ, call for Elfrid, call for whothehellever is next up on Perry's list, but for me, watching the slow steady up trajec is one of the very few pleasures of this season. I want to see where he is at at START 50, START 70 & START 90.

If ya don't, ya don't. But Elfrid & DJ.s 30.9 & 31.7 lifetime 3pt% in mucho mas minutes don't have me fearing we're missing too many game winners if they're not in.

Fair enough...and can appreciate your desire to watch your seedling grow...but DS jr was in the same draft so I'll see your 2 and raise you 1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSvGgenGLL8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSvGgenGLL8)

Lol, hey, I want to see them both together.....

**** and I never ever ever want to see Knox start at SG again
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 25, 2019, 09:54:44 PM
Next man up!

Wasn't Knox.  Good point.

Dotson, Ellington or Trier should have started at the 2
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 25, 2019, 10:00:26 PM
Speaking of defense, check out Embiid's line tonight, looks like Gasol brought it. wow.

(Nurse is just a helluva coach)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 25, 2019, 10:00:38 PM
22 and 21 for Jarrett Allen tonight.  Nets win yet another close one.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 25, 2019, 10:07:23 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on November 25, 2019, 10:00:26 PM
Speaking of defense, check out Embiid's line tonight, looks like Gasol brought it. wow.

(Nurse is just a helluva coach)

Wow!

Can't wait for the revenge game.
Title: Melo!
Post by: carlos123 on November 25, 2019, 10:28:07 PM
Trail Blazers
STARTERS          MIN   FG       3PT       FT OREB DREB REB  AST   STL   BLK   TO   PF    +/-     PTS
C. AnthonyPF   31   10-20      4-7        1-1   1      7      8      2       1      0       2     3   +19      25
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 25, 2019, 10:52:05 PM
Take that you glazed donut face!
Title: Bake show
Post by: Kam on November 25, 2019, 10:53:10 PM
https://www.kansas.com/sports/college/wichita-state/article235154152.html (https://www.kansas.com/sports/college/wichita-state/article235154152.html)

Ron Baker leading CSKA Moscow to a Championship title
Title: Re: Melo!
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 25, 2019, 11:18:33 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on November 25, 2019, 10:28:07 PM
Trail Blazers
STARTERS          MIN   FG       3PT       FT OREB DREB REB  AST   STL   BLK   TO   PF    +/-     PTS
C. AnthonyPF   31   10-20      4-7        1-1   1      7      8      2       1      0       2     3   +19      25

1 steal, zero blocks

Same ol'  :)
Title: Re: It's all a fucking blur......
Post by: elephant on November 25, 2019, 11:22:20 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on November 25, 2019, 07:07:45 PM
Lol, lol, y'all motherfuckers must remember a blizzard of Frankie Clanks in a giant bag of tight games....I sure can't.

Hey! Nobody is talking about the Knicks playing a blizzard of close games.

But he's been on the floor in a number of them. Nothing memorable cuz he hasn't quite given us more than the occasional CLANK. But I'm sure if he hangs around 5 years, he's win a game or two.

I'm still rooting for the motherfucker. But you, sir, might want to ask your physician about these memory issues.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 25, 2019, 11:47:06 PM
All this schizz about F Fly.......

He is currently on a 14/0 assist/turnover binge.

Have to wonder when last time was a Knick did this.

28/4 if you extend it to 6 games

Best 2 gamer or better for Frank previous to this was 20/3 in late January/March (4 games).  Had an 8/1 as well.

40/12 (6 games) and 19/3 (3 games) were best stretches rookie season.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 25, 2019, 11:52:26 PM
Knick Guard FG%

Trier 47.1%
_______________
Dotson  38.5%
Franco  38.0%
ElfyElf   37.9%
Jr Smith 35.5%
Ellington 35.4%

Trier & Ellington the only two who can take and make 3's.
Though El Train only at 34.5% so far.

Franc deserves criticism for his shooting.
But other Knic guards aren't doing any better ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 25, 2019, 11:58:33 PM
Not sure the exact number of assists without a turnover for NBA mark

CP3, Rickey Green and John Lucas all had 20/0 games.  Best stretch over more than one game I have found is 31-1 from Lucas, followed by 28-1 for CP3.

So have at those guys Wednesday, Fly!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 26, 2019, 12:03:39 AM
If I was picking just game winners tonight I think I'd be 10-0, with OKC pending (down 11 in 3rd)

One of thes nights I will go over and toss 20 bucks on the full slate.
Title: Re: Melo!
Post by: carlos123 on November 26, 2019, 01:44:43 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 25, 2019, 11:18:33 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on November 25, 2019, 10:28:07 PM
Trail Blazers
STARTERS          MIN   FG       3PT       FT OREB DREB REB  AST   STL   BLK   TO   PF    +/-     PTS
C. AnthonyPF   31   10-20      4-7        1-1   1      7      8      2       1      0       2     3   +19      25

1 steal, zero blocks

Same ol'  :)

Very selective you are with the stats. How about 10-20, 4-7, 8 boards, +19...?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 26, 2019, 03:23:37 AM
I think he was funnying your ticklebone.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 26, 2019, 12:01:51 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 25, 2019, 11:47:06 PM
All this schizz about F Fly.......

He is currently on a 14/0 assist/turnover binge.



Well when you don't often bring the ball up and when you don't take opportunities to thread a pass to someone for an assist then you won't get turnovers.   I'd like to see him up his assist average and not care so much about turning it over.  A clean sheet means you took no chances.

No drives to the hoop means no chance for picking up an offensive foul either... which counts as a turnover.

In fact, if you dont like Julius Randle's BULL-drives to the hoop to pick up an offensive foul you should look at who gave him the ball.  If you aren't aggressive you can hold onto the ball.  Hot potato it to someone else, let them turn it over.  Frank 'assists' on nearly half of Randle's TOs*.


I'm concerned Frank cares too much about turnovers after getting yanked in the season opener in SA for two TOs.   

Frank: Make something happen. If you turn it over its ok.


----

PS.

* If you get an assist for a pass that leads to a bucket, why don't we take one away for a pass that leads to a turnover? If you pass it to a guy who is outta control that's partly your fault. You're a PG.  You're supposed to have good decision-making.  So make a better decision who you pass it to!  Pass it to someone who understands ball security.  Any play where Frank gives up the ball at halfcourt to Randle needs to be eliminated.   Randle just runs into the defense.  Frank knows that but still does it.   The first few times you can't blame Frank but now?  NOW?  It is known.
That's on you Frank.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 26, 2019, 05:45:20 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 26, 2019, 12:01:51 PM

Well when you don't often bring the ball up and when you don't take opportunities to thread a pass to someone for an assist then you won't get turnovers.   

true to some extent, yup,...but he has been pretty good with the rock, but yup

Quote from: elephant on November 25, 2019, 11:22:20 PM
I'm still rooting for the motherfucker. But you, sir, might want to ask your physician about these memory issues.

I will do just that, when I remember where I put my phone, or my wallet, or my keys for that matter.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 27, 2019, 08:00:36 AM
Richard Jefferson made waves on Sunday when he claimed during a broadcast of a game between the New York Knicks and Brooklyn Nets that he retired because the Knicks were the only team to offer him a contract, and that indicated to him that his time in the league was up.

The thin-skinned Knix of course took the bait and put out word they never offered RJ a contract.  Not sure it requires a full article mocking the Knix front office, but one exists: https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/knicks-deny-ever-offering-richard-jefferson-a-contract-which-makes-them-look-even-worse-than-before/

Only reason I'm referencing it is I caught the 2Q & 3Q on YES, and RJ was pretty entertaining doing the color commentating (even quipping that at first he thought that was racist, until he learned broadcast lingo).
He joked a lot throughout the game, but also kept enough focus on the game.  It was an amusing, interesting performance.  I didn't hear that jab at the Knix, but given the context of what I heard, it's pretty clear it's an RJ joke.  Apparently later in the game he admitted it wasn't true.

The Nets replay was at 2:PM here and the MSG replay at 3:PM.
And I ended up watching much of both.
I prefer Clyde and Breen.

But one thing interesting was how different the very last play -- Nets up 3 and inbounding at midcourt -- was handled by each network.  YES kept the camera on the Nets huddle, and so the announcers were aware that Dinwiddie had an idea, even tapping his chest and saying I've got this coach.  A nice set-up to the eventual play where Harris just banked the ball off a Knick.  And then Dinwiddie is laughing and everyone congratulating him.

Meanwhile Breen went clueless.  He came upon the idea that the Knix only hope was causing a 5 second violation.  And repeated this 2 or 3 times.  But all the Nets needed to do was have the ball touch any player on the court for 0.2 seconds and then no shot could be taken.  And it's down on their end.  So a 5 second violation was never gonna happen.  The inbounder just needed to toss the ball near some players in the frontcourt, and once it's touched game over.

YES knew what was up, and completely MSG flubbed it.  They had no idea what Nets were going to do or that Dinwiddie was behind it.

Anyway, Yes
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 27, 2019, 08:07:08 AM
BTW, Melo looked terrific in that 25 Point Bulls game:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lz1Obcidi54
He was popping open and contested 3's, had a couple strong drives hoopwards, made a few nifty passes.
I only saw the highlights, but that was a vintage performance.
Who knows if he can whip that out more, but it's encouraging.
Also that was one of his first games with both Lili and McC playing, and they draw a lot of attention.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 27, 2019, 02:40:31 PM
Melo seems a really good fit. He’s playing the four with Whiteside behind him and the kind of guards he needs. He gets touches and they are primarily touches to score. I hope they stay healthy & make noise.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 27, 2019, 07:37:22 PM
Barrett back home......

Could be baeautiful...

or ucking fugly.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 27, 2019, 08:30:50 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 25, 2019, 11:58:33 PM
Not sure the exact number of assists without a turnover for NBA mark

CP3, Rickey Green and John Lucas all had 20/0 games.  Best stretch over more than one game I have found is 31-1 from Lucas, followed by 28-1 for CP3.

So have at those guys Wednesday, Fly!

2 assists, then makes a turnover as he tries the forward pass.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 27, 2019, 08:37:56 PM
Knicks 32-26

Frank Ntlikina enters game for Dennis Smith Jr (+7, 8 minutes)

Smith comes back in at 45-58

So that's a 32-13 Raptors run with Fiz sticking to the script

Frank got cooked at least 3 times that I saw, getting crossed over, going behind screen, late on a closeout, you name it.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 27, 2019, 08:38:17 PM
GOLLY - this team is a shit short of a shit show.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 27, 2019, 08:57:49 PM
Frank (-18) starts second half (scripted)

Raps run off 6 more quick points

Don't blame DSJ (+7) for being upset.  Knicks were clearly better with him out there tonight.
Title: Boo
Post by: Kam on November 27, 2019, 09:22:00 PM
thanks4givin nuttin'
Title: Hey Dolan
Post by: Kam on November 27, 2019, 09:34:04 PM
Heads need to roll after this one
Title: Re: Hey Dolan
Post by: Merciless on November 27, 2019, 09:41:23 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 27, 2019, 09:34:04 PM
Heads need to roll after this one

Seriously? Saw this one coming from a mile away.....

Fizzy done IMO when Knix are 15 under .500
Title: Re: Hey Dolan
Post by: Kam on November 27, 2019, 09:46:18 PM
Quote from: Merciless on November 27, 2019, 09:41:23 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 27, 2019, 09:34:04 PM
Heads need to roll after this one

Seriously? Saw this one coming from a mile away.....

Fizzy done IMO when Knix are 15 under .500

Sending Fitzperrymills packing before X-mas will be the best gift a knick fan can hope for this year.
Title: Team Leader Marcus Morris
Post by: Kam on November 27, 2019, 10:00:13 PM
a team leading -26

What was up with him tonight?

Didn't even look to shoot it much and we rely on him to score.

Gross negligence.
Title: Trust
Post by: carlos123 on November 27, 2019, 10:14:02 PM
Phony Phizz, we need more TRUST.

Go figure!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 27, 2019, 10:18:25 PM
Coach what did you see

"I saw a Championship ball club"

OK coach.   

No Leanard no Lowry no Ibaka no Green.

You got beat by Chris Boucher.

The name Chris Boucher isn't even an NBA calibre name.

It's like a fake name in an Adam Sandler movie.

You got beat by a bunch of extras in an Adam Sandler movie.

Coach.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 27, 2019, 10:45:46 PM
We've entered a zone where ever apt comment carries a feeling of endless redundancy.

There is nothing new to say.

If there were only some surprises. A bone or two thrown our way. We could subsist on that.

But no.
Title: Re: Hey Dolan
Post by: Merciless on November 27, 2019, 11:14:13 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 27, 2019, 09:46:18 PM
Quote from: Merciless on November 27, 2019, 09:41:23 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 27, 2019, 09:34:04 PM
Heads need to roll after this one

Seriously? Saw this one coming from a mile away.....

Fizzy done IMO when Knix are 15 under .500

Sending Fitzperrymills packing before X-mas will be the best gift a knick fan can hope for this year.

I can only hope....for the last year or two I promised myself I wouldn't come back until Mills was dismissed... for a while I did really good but like a crackhead I came back to the poison.... and now I feel like a miserable fuck starting all over again
Title: November 27, 2019
Post by: chipstern on November 28, 2019, 12:30:45 AM
(https://newyork.cbslocal.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/14578484/2015/01/knicks-fans-paper-bags1.jpg?w=625)

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSAf-wcAfa1L7oMNijMEua7197ppW3PN31uXSBJnyJSyBVIPbAG&s)

(https://assetsds.cdnedge.bluemix.net/sites/default/files/styles/big_2/public/feature/images/brown_toast.jpg?itok=mdl3RGuC)
Title: Re: Hey Dolan
Post by: chipstern on November 28, 2019, 12:33:57 AM
Quote from: Merciless on November 27, 2019, 11:14:13 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 27, 2019, 09:46:18 PM
Quote from: Merciless on November 27, 2019, 09:41:23 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 27, 2019, 09:34:04 PM
Heads need to roll after this one

Seriously? Saw this one coming from a mile away.....

Fizzy done IMO when Knix are 15 under .500

Sending Fitzperrymills packing before X-mas will be the best gift a knick fan can hope for this year.

I can only hope....for the last year or two I promised myself I wouldn't come back until Mills was dismissed... for a while I did really good but like a crackhead I came back to the poison.... and now I feel like a miserable fuck starting all over again

(https://media0.giphy.com/media/l1KVaj5UcbHwrBMqI/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 28, 2019, 01:08:45 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 27, 2019, 08:57:49 PM
Frank (-18) starts second half (scripted)

Raps run off 6 more quick points

Don't blame DSJ (+7) for being upset.  Knicks were clearly better with him out there tonight.

lol 3600x....talk about scripted
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 28, 2019, 06:09:48 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 27, 2019, 08:37:56 PM
Knicks 32-26
Frank Ntlikina enters game for Dennis Smith Jr (+7, 8 minutes)
Smith comes back in at 45-58
So that's a 32-13 Raptors run with Fiz sticking to the script
Frank got cooked at least 3 times that I saw, getting crossed over, going behind screen, late on a closeout, you name it.

Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 27, 2019, 08:57:49 PM
Frank (-18) starts second half (scripted)
Raps run off 6 more quick points
Don't blame DSJ (+7) for being upset.  Knicks were clearly better with him out there tonight.

Except Jr. Smith was upset when he was yanked after an 8-0 TOR 2Q run, during which he threw away the ball twice and was beat for a layup by an undrafted guy I never heard of.  He deserved the hook.  Unfortunately, the TOP run continued with a 14-2 barrage with Franc in.  But as TOR gained the lead and momentum, Knix went in for poor shots, like a Randle corner 3.  Ugly.

Smith shouldn't show visible displeasure when coming out.  Jr. Smith played a crap game.  1-7 FG, 0-4 on 3's, 3 Turnovers.  And his defense is poor.  Franc's shooting was marginally better (2-6 FG and 1-3 on 3's). Both Franc and Smith got 22 minutes on the night.  Neither played well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 28, 2019, 06:15:55 AM
Quote
The Raptors shot 3 for 13 from 3-point range in the first quarter but went 18 for 28 the rest of the way. Toronto matched a franchise high with 21 made 3-pointers.

Again, Knix got burned by the 3.
This time by the whole TOR team including guys I didn't know were on an NBA roster.

When are Knix going to make guarding the 3 a priority?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 28, 2019, 09:56:02 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 28, 2019, 06:15:55 AM


When are Knix going to make guarding the 3 a priority?

The coach has already stated guarding the paint is the priority.

So don't hold your breath.  If the paint is your priority the three is not. 

Can't do both.

What's next? Will we focus on best Free Throw defense?  Can't wait for that one.
Title: Re: Hey Dolan
Post by: Jerrya on November 28, 2019, 10:04:46 AM
Quote from: chipstern on November 28, 2019, 12:33:57 AM
Quote from: Merciless on November 27, 2019, 11:14:13 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 27, 2019, 09:46:18 PM
Quote from: Merciless on November 27, 2019, 09:41:23 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 27, 2019, 09:34:04 PM
Heads need to roll after this one

Seriously? Saw this one coming from a mile away.....

Fizzy done IMO when Knix are 15 under .500

Sending Fitzperrymills packing before X-mas will be the best gift a knick fan can hope for this year.

I can only hope....for the last year or two I promised myself I wouldn't come back until Mills was dismissed... for a while I did really good but like a crackhead I came back to the poison.... and now I feel like a miserable fuck starting all over again

(https://media0.giphy.com/media/l1KVaj5UcbHwrBMqI/giphy.gif)

Hard to believe they keep these group of clowns running the show...from Perry, Mill, and Fitz...
How long or better yet, what will it take to clean house?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 28, 2019, 10:08:38 AM
I know.
I was the one who first posted that Datsun quote.

But since it's obviously not working, and the Knix are getting killed by 3's, you'd think Fizz might want to change the approach.  Tried an interior D focus and got killed outside.  So prioritize guarding the perimeter and making guys put the ball on the floor.  Funnel things into Mitch & Taj.  Lotta new guys, so keep it simple.  Switch less, don't allow 3's.  See how that goes.

As you said before 3 is more than 2.
Hell, we'd likely mess up some teams game plan, since most probably intend to shoot 3's on us.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 28, 2019, 11:34:03 AM
- the Knicks rank last in the NBA in free-throw percentage (67 percent).

The Knicks rank 29th in points per possession. They also rank 27th in pace.

- Fizdale has wanted to play quicker since taking over as Knicks head coach. The club played at an average pace last season (17th in the NBA).

(a legit reason not to want Franc as the starting PG)

Quote
Down only 6 with 5 left in the 2nd, they'd given up 22 3-pt attempts. Of those, I'd say 2 were well-defended, 7 featured adequate D, most were bad, & 4 egregiously bad (3 by Randle)
Lots of "meh" contests
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 29, 2019, 09:45:59 AM
How a young cancer survivor and an NBA forward formed a lifelong bond (https://theundefeated.com/features/the-heartwarming-friendship-between-robert-covington-and-young-gio-toribio/?addata=espn:nba:index)

Covington has become buddies with an 8 year cancer survivor.
Nice story.  They Facetime almost every day, and families get together when possible.

Reason I linked it up here is that it started with the Knix visit to a children's hospital and Chasson Randle making a connection with the boy:
Quote
In 2016, Gio was in Maria Ferrari Children’s Hospital when the New York Knicks — whose practice facility is nearby — came for a visit. That’s where he met Chasson Randle, who was on the team’s training camp roster. The two were developing a bond, but the Knicks released Randle before the season. Randle eventually signed with the Philadelphia 76ers. Still in touch with the Toribio family, he provided them tickets to a game.

Randle, unfortunately, was released by the Sixers the day before the game. Gio was crushed. But he still wanted to go to the game to hand out bracelets with the words “Gio Strong.”

On game day, Gio attended the Wells Fargo Center still wearing his hospital surgical mask. During pregame warm-ups, Gio and his family asked a security guard if he could deliver the bracelets to the players for him. The security guard denied the request. Instead, he took Gio to a tunnel where he would be able to hand out the bracelets. Ben Simmons received one and stopped to take a picture with Gio, who was wearing Simmons’ No. 25 jersey. Simmons also gave Gio an autographed shoe.

That’s when Covington walked by and witnessed the exchange.

“If he’s going to give you shoes, let me give you shoes, too,” Covington said before he jogged into the locker room and grabbed a pair of sneakers to sign and give to Gio.
Gio was beaming behind his surgical mask.

“There’s just a connection that I felt between Gio,” Covington said. “I don’t know what it was. But it just drew me to him.”

Covington felt such a strong bond that he invited Gio and his family to the Sixers’ family room after the game. There, Covington gave Gio a game jersey and asked his parents questions about the challenges they faced as Gio battled cancer.

From there, Covington became friends with the boy and his parents.  I like how this kid says the Rob is his best friend.
Pretty cool to have an NBA star as your friend when you're 8.

So hurray for Covington.  And props to Chasson Randle.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 29, 2019, 12:26:45 PM
So don't hold your breath.  If the paint is your priority the three is not.

Can't do both

Such BS

How about teaching man defense like it was taught 30-40 years back?  Stop passing off dribblers to the next guy.

I guess Fiz feels we are at a disadvantage re:  post defense

But teams seldom post....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 29, 2019, 08:42:17 PM
Knix playing well.
I like when PHI cut the lead to 8, late 2Q, Morris asserted himself to get the lead back up.  That's what a leader does.

PHI down 16, so ... Embiid shoots a 3.  Thx Joel.
Seems JoshRich and Horford out.
Never heard of Norvel Pelle.  Sounds Finnish, but Antiguan (is that a Dutch name?) and he played for St John's.  On a 2-way dealio.

12 Pt halftime lead -- coulda been more.
Knick bench a combined 1-8  . . .  on FT's.
What's with this team?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Merciless on November 29, 2019, 08:47:42 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 29, 2019, 08:42:17 PM
What's with this team?

It needs a PG and they'll lose this one too by the looks of it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 29, 2019, 08:57:31 PM
Nice job by Fiz.

Got em playing good hard D and moving ball.

Zero Trier. Zero Knox.

Just the right balance of Frank & Dennis w/overlay time.

Coaching to win. Let's see if they do.


** and no, don't think PG situation has anything to do with our missed free throw problem. (well, Dennis a wee bit...)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 29, 2019, 09:15:30 PM
Knix be 4-14.
So I don't care about W's.
A W would be great.  An L fine as well.

I care more about playing hard, developing players, getting some chemistry and system in place. 

Concerned that Knox is getting squeezed out of minutes lately.  Hope that's a temporary thing.  Can't see the benefit of having Bobby "Mr. Consistent" Portis taking Knox's minutes.

Norvel up to 4 blocks ..
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Merciless on November 29, 2019, 09:29:04 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on November 29, 2019, 08:57:31 PM
** and no, don't think PG situation has anything to do with our missed free throw problem. (well, Dennis a wee bit...)

No but you need a pg that can dish assists and hit wide open jumpers...
Title: BBALL Gods
Post by: Kam on November 29, 2019, 09:53:01 PM
Can we get this one please
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Merciless on November 29, 2019, 10:03:43 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 29, 2019, 09:15:30 PM

I care more about playing hard, developing players, getting some chemistry and system in place. 


Not sure i get this statement when your coach will be gone and many on this team too next year.

You'll have no continuity or system when its back to the drawing board...Did you not see that the idiots in suits running this org think this team would be competitive this year? Winning matters, not moral victories.
Title: Re: BBALL Gods
Post by: carlos123 on November 29, 2019, 10:03:50 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 29, 2019, 09:53:01 PM
Can we get this one please

(http://www.craftsofindia.com/posters/pt88.jpg) 
NO

The miss on purpose was ... entertaining.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Merciless on November 29, 2019, 10:16:56 PM
Nice one carlos...

22-60 and another year in hell
Title: Optimist
Post by: carlos123 on November 29, 2019, 10:23:15 PM
Quote from: Merciless on November 29, 2019, 10:16:56 PM
Nice one carlos...

22-60 and another year in hell

Thanks miras.

You're an optimist. I went 19-63 and I think I may be another optimist. Lets see if we can match last year's 17.
Title: Nice Game
Post by: lesterluv on November 30, 2019, 01:00:29 AM
Hit a few free throws and it's ours.

Fiz finally has the rotation down. Probably our best one.

Concerned about Knox getting squeezed out? Why? He's a huge liability on a basketball court. He'll get some minutes in as we can afford to give them to him and keep on working on all the stuff he needs to work on in practice. Odds of him every becoming an actual basketball player still fairly small, but I'm rooting for him.

Point guard coming along just fine, too. 14 shots. Nice forays into the lane.
Nice pnr w/mitch. Nice screen for Randle. Nice steady progress in 38th start and clearly getting coach's confidence. Good stuff. All good.


*** now that our "development year" coach has got the "which player" thing down, maybe he can start working on stuff like plays & having the right player do the right thing, like get Morris set up for some threes in the second half cause he's just knocking them down..



Title: NOT A SHIT SHOW [Re: Nice Game]
Post by: chipstern on November 30, 2019, 02:06:09 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on November 30, 2019, 01:00:29 AM
Hit a few free throws and it's ours.

Fiz finally has the rotation down. Probably our best one.

Concerned about Knox getting squeezed out? Why? He's a huge liability on a basketball court. He'll get some minutes in as we can afford to give them to him and keep on working on all the stuff he needs to work on in practice. Odds of him every becoming an actual basketball player still fairly small, but I'm rooting for him.

Point guard coming along just fine, too. 14 shots. Nice forays into the lane.
Nice pnr w/mitch. Nice screen for Randle. Nice steady progress in 38th start and clearly getting coach's confidence. Good stuff. All good.


*** now that our "development year" coach has got the "which player" thing down, maybe he can start working on stuff like plays & having the right player do the right thing, like get Morris set up for some threes in the second half cause he's just knocking them down..


Why thank you, Dawg, for a reasoned and trenchant analysis. 

Surely dispiriting to lose, but showed some flashes of a rational rotation, offensive cohesion and defensive tenacity. 

RJ post game talked about team relaxing, and well...mmmmm, yes and no. 

Philly is a top tier team in the East, and even without Al and Josh, pretty fucking formidable. 

Even so, more a factor of a drop off from starters to subs...

And, oh yeah, a startling disparity in free thrown attempts and makes. 

Philly was 32-40 [80%]

New York was 19-33 [56.7%]

Considering that on treys?

Philly was 7-26

New York was 8-20

We were shooting the trey better and defending the trey better. 

And even shooting 57.6% from the FT line, we were in this game right down to the end, and that poor execution on that messed up inbound play coming out of a time out. 

So, no moral victories, but not a shit show. 

Boston beckons on Sunday at home, while the Bucks on the road Monday. 

We played them tough last time as well, and at crunch time, Kemba and Jayson were decisive. 

NOT A SHIT SHOW.  This is what passes for hope in James Dolan's Alternate Reality Universe. 

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRO3TFcVeSa5xjKKIgSFGgNFShhgzRxlb2BNpJ-QP6LH3k-foni&s)

Ommmmmmmmmmmm

PS: Yes, by all means FIZZ getting Morris the ball more effectively in the second half, but let us give Philly SOME CREDIT for paying closer attention to our most dangerous shooter. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 30, 2019, 04:34:21 AM
Quote from: Merciless on November 29, 2019, 10:03:43 PM
Not sure i get this statement when your coach will be gone and many on this team too next year.

You'll have no continuity or system when its back to the drawing board...Did you not see that the idiots in suits running this org think this team would be competitive this year?

I don't like the churn.  I didn't like this offseason.
I didn't like the players we brought in (except Taj).
We're playing a lot of vets and still losing.

My prescription is trade a bunch of vets for more yute and picks.  Buy into the process instead of always trying to jump the queue.
(I'm glad we didn't get Kyrie and KD).

Last year we wasted a lot of development on reclamations who we didn't ask back.  Even developmentwise, this is looking like a semi-wasted year.  At least injuries opened up a slot for Franc. And he's doing allright.  I'm concerned about Knox's role shrinking.

Hope we start dealing after Dec 15.

We have a yute corps of Franc/Smith - Trier/Dot - RJB - Knox - Mitch
Our drafting has been a strength.

Trades vets, accumulate more picks/yute, tank.
Get another Top 5 draft pick.
Young cheap assets.  Young talent.
That's the way forward.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 30, 2019, 04:55:17 AM
What Frank giveth Dennis pissith away.

Randle has significantly reduced his number of negative plays, but the ones he does make are huge.

Fizz is coaching better now that his career on the line. Now he needs to get them to move off ball as well as they play D.

Would be nice if Trier could pick up his D so he could replace Dennis or Ellington.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 30, 2019, 05:05:33 AM
Knix fumbled away the easy part of the schedule.

Now 5 straight losses during the hard schedule.
With another 4 likely losses on tap.
Then a 5 game West Road trip.

Knix might be 7-23 going into the Xmas eve game v. WASh.
Will Fizz make it that far?
Didn't we fire a coach on Xmas once (L Brown?)

By Jan we should be unloading our vet talent.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 30, 2019, 05:22:34 AM
Besides a starting PG, we also need a close-game closer.

Morris tries, but he's not at that level.
Randle is limited.  RJB and Trier are pups.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 30, 2019, 08:42:54 AM
Quote from: Merciless on November 29, 2019, 10:03:43 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 29, 2019, 09:15:30 PM

I care more about playing hard, developing players, getting some chemistry and system in place. 


Not sure i get this statement when your coach will be gone and many on this team too next year.

You'll have no continuity or system when its back to the drawing board...Did you not see that the idiots in suits running this org think this team would be competitive this year? Winning matters, not moral victories.

Will be back next year

The big 6

Knox     d
Frank    d
Julius --fa
Barrett   d
Brazdekis  d
Robinson  d

- building thru draft plus one/two free agents (Morris)

(Smith - or Payton)
(Gibson - option)
(Portis - option)
(Ellington - option)

(Morris- re-sign)

Keeping one pg and Morris gives us EIGHT on roster entering draft

TEN after draft - so five slots open for free agents.  Six if Marcus leaves.  Whole new team to dislike next year. But maybe we LAND a stud in draft or FA this time.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 30, 2019, 10:16:02 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 30, 2019, 05:22:34 AM
Besides a starting PG, we also need a close-game closer.

Morris tries, but he's not at that level.
Randle is limited.  RJB and Trier are pups.

3,  2.2,  2.1

Clutch scoring per 5 minutes, late and close - top 3 Knicks

It's MORRIS, correct.  Followed by Barrett then Randle

Morris is 22nd in NBA

All 3 in top 50
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 30, 2019, 10:22:02 AM
The 50%ers on Knicks in clutch time are Ellington, Gibson, Robinson and RANDLE (58)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 30, 2019, 11:31:35 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 30, 2019, 10:16:02 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 30, 2019, 05:22:34 AM
Besides a starting PG, we also need a close-game closer.

Morris tries, but he's not at that level.
Randle is limited.  RJB and Trier are pups.

3,  2.2,  2.1

Clutch scoring per 5 minutes, late and close - top 3 Knicks


Frankie had more than that last night in just his 38th start. He'll get there. I have no idea what you guys are worried about...;)


***Coach can get there, too. What you're doing not just who is doing it is always important. Let's see how our end games progress as Fiz's Development Year 2 continues.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 30, 2019, 12:31:51 PM
Randle Morris Barrett are our Top3.  They will be back.
Robinson and Knox will be back because of their salaries.
Gibson is welcome back.  That's 6.
AM i ignoring iggy?  sorry. That's 7.

Not going to put anyone else in the basket as SURE THINGS.
Frank leads the 'maybes' but that can change when El Payton returns.

Title: Les
Post by: carlos123 on November 30, 2019, 01:40:01 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on November 30, 2019, 11:31:35 AM

***Coach can get there, too. What you're doing not just who is doing it is always important. Let's see how our end games progress as Fiz's Development Year 2 continues.

Les, I’m kinda worried about you. What are you becoming? Pom Pom gurl? Positive Pussy? Sarcastic mofo? All of the above?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 30, 2019, 02:22:44 PM
worry not..consider each and every one of my posts invisibly prefaced by please fire mills, perry, fiz


*** that said, considering the inescapable reality of where we are, I am enjoying the current progression

earned minutes not free minutes, sensible substitutions, slightly less end-to-end PF dribbling, slightly less outdated Mase-circa 1994 iso PF ball-pounding, a little more PnR action with different participants, far more consistent defensive effort for longer stretches of the game by greater number of players, experimenting with three guards rather than three PFs, etc..

none-of-the above means I believe Fiz is a competent coach or is creating a situation which will result in drastically more wins than our SPOT-ON PRESEASON projections called for, but I enjoy seeing it, it's good for the franchise, and if it continues in a significant way I have no problem with him keeping his job if he earns it

and this, not last year, is actually a development year, folks can develop in it, EVEN KNOX. As I have always maintained, before last season and forever, nobody develops in a shit-soup, nobody did, we didn't resign any of those mf'ers and the ones who were already undercontract barely budged forward, if at all. Gotta have a mix of veterans and youth, gotta be trying to win, otherwise you are just wasting your time. Knox is so much better off here on the bench, understanding what he needs to do to get in and stay in the game,(and alongside some (semi) talented and (semi) professional vets when he's in it) than running around endlessly like a moron for 30+ unearned min last year next to fellow crap-ola. I'm happy with him this season, can see that he's thinking and trying when he's out there (albeit largely failing so far;)

*** And the next time Fiz tries something so head-up-your-ass-BUTTSTUPID as starting Knox at SG consider any optimism or backhanded compliments or niceness I may have have accidentally shown him completely retracted

** in addition to could of easily won if we'd hit a few more free throws last night, I also thought we had to overcome a couple of pretty impactful bad calls. The Mitch foul where Embiid swung up his arms into Mitch's stationary horizontally extended ones, I thought this wasn't a foul anymore, but maybe it's just the side-to-side arm swing foul that's been removed, not the vertical version (horrible that either is ever considered a foul by a defender, but that's where we are in Silver's NBA -- and that extend the leg three point foul (on Ennis? by Randle?) that resulted in three unearned points for Philly (certainly would have been challenged had Fiz not already used his up)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 30, 2019, 03:11:25 PM
Frankie had more than that last night in just his 38th start. He'll get there. I have no idea what you guys are worried about...;)


That on a good night like yesterday was his game score was 6.0

On his best this year - 16.9
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 30, 2019, 03:47:59 PM
LOL, I have absolutely no idea what that means, but I liked what I saw from Frankie last night!

And I prefer him shooting 3's to DJr...and handling the rock to DJr...and increasingly, heading into the lane to DJr...def D'ing up anybody to DJr..(though littlehizzy was decently active last night)

And

I own it!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 30, 2019, 06:42:01 PM
Dennis was on the court with Morris or Handle for about a minute and twenty seconds
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 30, 2019, 06:43:07 PM
But I can see it now.  Frank plays well enough to get extended beyond the 6 mil we owe him for next season
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 30, 2019, 08:40:32 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 30, 2019, 06:43:07 PM
But I can see it now.  Frank plays well enough to get extended beyond the 6 mil we owe him for next season

Yup, and starts for the next 10-12 seasons.
Title: Melo! Again
Post by: carlos123 on November 30, 2019, 08:43:39 PM
Trail Blazers
STARTERS        MIN   FG    3PT    FT   OREB   DREB   REB   AST   STL   BLK   TO   PF   +/-   PTS
C. Anthony PF   37   8-16   1-3   6-7    2          9       11       4      1      0       0     3    +10   23
Title: No Matter How Bad It Is For us...
Post by: lesterluv on November 30, 2019, 09:57:23 PM
Just turned on Sirius NBA radio in the car to hear that the score in the Hawks Rockets game is 124 to 66......
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 30, 2019, 10:18:46 PM

Dennis was on the court with Morris or Randle for about a minute and twenty seconds
Title: Re: No Matter How Bad It Is For us...
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 30, 2019, 10:21:36 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on November 30, 2019, 09:57:23 PM
Just turned on Sirius NBA radio in the car to hear that the score in the Hawks Rockets game is 124 to 66......

When was the last time a guy (Young) scored 37 and lost by 48?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 30, 2019, 10:23:00 PM
Or got 60 on 24 shots (Harden)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 30, 2019, 10:26:54 PM
Why are other teams just smarter?

Sixers win after intentionally fouling Brogdon with 3 point lead.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 30, 2019, 10:29:49 PM
Indy shoots 55% and loses

Sacramento shoots 38% and wins
Title: Re: Melo! Again
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 30, 2019, 10:34:14 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on November 30, 2019, 08:43:39 PM
Trail Blazers
STARTERS        MIN   FG    3PT    FT   OREB   DREB   REB   AST   STL   BLK   TO   PF   +/-   PTS
C. Anthony PF   37   8-16   1-3   6-7    2          9       11       4      1      0       0     3    +10   23

Whiteside stole the show.  A bucket shy of trip-doub (10 swats)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 01, 2019, 03:28:34 AM
McLemore had 24 on 14 shots (with no FT's).  6-11 on 3's.  Also 13 Boards.

ATL needs to trade for DeAndre Jordan so they can conquer the market on DeAndre's.  (they have Bembry and Hunter)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on December 01, 2019, 05:41:09 PM
lol Knicks

We might be worse than last year.

Same song
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on December 01, 2019, 05:51:14 PM
Remember when all y'all were acting like Knox was the next Kobe after his first SL?

I do because it was too easy to suggest it was premature, but of course was castigated as if I wrote for the Daily News.

We're so lost and corporate you can see hope die every waking moment.

Everyone eventually gets it.

Fiz thought he could surmount the obstacles and prove the haters wrong.

Resistance is futile?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 01, 2019, 06:11:19 PM
Last game Knicks took a time out with a minute left in a close game and threw the ball to the opposition. It was a vintage Fizdale moment in a season full of them.

This game nothing like that occurred because we managed to keep the game out of reach by the two-minute mark.

I did think Knicks moved the ball around pretty well today. And I thought Smith Jr. played quite well.

But we still need a starting guard who can consistently play like a starting guard. I know Lester disagrees, but he apparently has access to drugs that I do not.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 01, 2019, 06:17:06 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 01, 2019, 03:28:34 AM
McLemore had 24 on 14 shots (with no FT's).  6-11 on 3's.  Also 13 Boards.

Nice to see him salvaging a career, which was very much on the ropes. good kid.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 01, 2019, 06:20:32 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on December 01, 2019, 05:51:14 PM
Remember when all y'all were acting like Knox was the next Kobe after his first SL?

I do because it was too easy to suggest it was premature, but of course was castigated as if I wrote for the Daily News.


Well, not me personally, was always pretty skeptical of the pick, but good call — though he gave us decent, pretty engaged minutes tonight. It's gonna take awhile, but the tortoise like trajectory is definitely still upwards.

I do really remember 1000 posts about a certain Turk having no place in the NBA. Nice meaningful minutes on a top four team in the East tonight, after extraordinary performances with top four team in the West last spring. Terrible call.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 01, 2019, 06:26:58 PM
Quote from: elephant on December 01, 2019, 06:11:19 PM

But we still need a starting guard who can consistently play like a starting guard. I know Lester disagrees, but he apparently has access to drugs that I do not.

You see Kemba or Ja needing a uni, give him a Knick jersey, for sure. In the meantime, happy with Smith until the last six minutes tonight (beginning with that pass to the bench) though would surely have loved Frankie around to better contest two Jaylen drives and another by Kemba in the end game, but we got what we got and they're young, and I'll watch 'em and more often than not, for their relative stages of their careers, can see some goodness. Years 3 and 4 are generally bloom time for non-walk-into-the-NBA-as-superstar-type PGs. Let two flowers bloom.


*** No Morris really left the door open for more pointguarding tonight. In general, wouldn't terribly mind one of our neo-Bo's hitting the exits at trade time as they are kind of redundant as a pair on the floor.
Title: Immune to the losing
Post by: Kam on December 01, 2019, 06:57:24 PM
Watch the bad habits set in.  Mitchell Robinson regressing before our eyes with his propensity to foul.

Feel bad for RJ.   Glad we have a couple of pros in the locker room for him to lean on during these times.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 01, 2019, 06:59:28 PM
Well if we don't get a win soon, that will be a problem. In general, however, the habits are getting better. Won't continue forever.


*** the habit betterment, I mean, without some W's
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Merciless on December 01, 2019, 07:38:38 PM
4-16 and falling fast...tied for worst record in the NBA.

I still think Fiz is toast 15 games under .500

Mills cannot be made to have his Plan B look this bad --- even though this is the result of incompetent decisions by an utterly useless piece of shit.
Title: Mismanagement
Post by: Kam on December 01, 2019, 07:56:21 PM
Knox, Mitch, Zo all have seen their roles shrink. 

After they were "developed" all last year.

In favor of vets who don't win...

Title: As Previously Stated, Free Run THRU Slop is NOT DEVELOPMENT
Post by: lesterluv on December 01, 2019, 08:13:47 PM
Knox appears to be developing. The only limit on Mitch's role is his ability to stay on court. I expect Trier has been told what he needs to do...
Title: My Positive Pussy contribution
Post by: carlos123 on December 01, 2019, 08:22:57 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on December 01, 2019, 06:59:28 PM
Well if we don't get a win soon, that will be a problem. In general, however, the habits are getting better. Won't continue forever.


*** the habit betterment, I mean, without some W's

We may win on the 11th or the 17th if we're lucky.

Title: Re: My Positive Pussy contribution
Post by: lesterluv on December 01, 2019, 09:48:51 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 01, 2019, 08:22:57 PM

We may win on the 11th or the 17th if we're lucky.

If we win both (and no others), we would still be on track to finish worse than your lowest of the low-balls prediction. Ooooppaa.....


*** there's no way any of these three guys keeps their jobs, right? that would be too crazy, like trying to imagine the Donald could keep his....(yow)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 01, 2019, 10:02:59 PM
Just need to look at first two possessions after timeout at 95-95.

5 minute game, even up

The personnel Coach decided on sucked

The play call sucked - and then was repeated second possession (Dotson handling)

Fiz points to that same point - and the 4 straight turnovers.  But why doesn't Smith have the ball?  Did DENNIS say, "no - you handle it, Dame"?

Ball moved well with Dennis - but he was freaking spent.  Have to have a 3rd pg on the active roster.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 01, 2019, 10:05:31 PM
Post game - Fizdale actually said, "we did a good job defending the three - they had only made TEN going into the fourth quarter."

Goooooooood Lord.

Fiz didnt even have any info on Frank's injury when he stood for the press

Whaaaaaaaaaaaat?

Get this clown the fuck outa town.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 01, 2019, 10:33:33 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on December 01, 2019, 05:51:14 PM
Remember when all y'all were acting like Knox was the next Kobe after his first SL?

I do because it was too easy to suggest it was premature, but of course was castigated as if I wrote for the Daily News.

We're so lost and corporate you can see hope die every waking moment.

Everyone eventually gets it.

Fiz thought he could surmount the obstacles and prove the haters wrong.

Resistance is futile?

Knox alternatives

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bridgmi02.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/portemi01.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/divindo01.html

Did not include SGA - never called for him
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 02, 2019, 02:57:45 AM
I think we were much more likely to take Shai than DiVincenzo who went 17th.  The week before the draft, Shai was getting significant buzz, moving from around 15 into our range (he went #11).  DiVi had nice combine #'s, but I don't recall that or anything vaulting him in or near the Top 10.

I think it was mostly between the Bridges and Knox.
Miles Bridges seems to be playing fairy well in CHA, but I haven't seen them.  Mikal hasn't gotten going in PHX, and has been pushed aside by Uber-Killer. 

Mikal was the older Villanova Bridges.
Miles the defensive SF.  A hoped-for 3&D wing.
Both just 6'6"
Knox 2 years young than Miles and 3 years than Mikal.

I think Knox was a good pick.  He has better physical tools and higher upside than the Bridges.  But he's inexperienced and was known to need patience.  I didn't know he would be so iffy on D, but that's often true of young guys, and he has made an effort to improve this year.  Knox could benefit from playing with a good PG with a stable roster.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 02, 2019, 03:16:53 AM
So a question: How much would you give up for Dinwiddie?  A 6'6" penetrating scoring PG who seems to have leadership qualities. 

Nets have Kyrie and next year KD who will dominate the ball.
 Dinwiddie's role is much the same as Kyrie's.  Their weak spot is PF, but that's where KD slots in next year.  They could use another 3-point shooter and a wing.

Randle or Morris would help them this year, but probably not long-term fits after KD returns.   

I'd do Morris and Smith Jr/Elf for Dinwiddie and Kurucs?  I didn't look at the numbers, but that can always be smoothed out.  If the Nets aren't interested would you include Knox to get it done?

The hope is that Dimwillie is a longterm PG solution for NYK, and can work with Randle and RJB and lob to Mitch.  And help stabilize our franchise.

Dinwiddie - RJB - Knox - Randle - Taj
(assuming Knox isn't in the deal)
Smith/Elf - Trier/Dot - Portis - Mitch
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 02, 2019, 03:22:38 AM
Really Franc would fit well there, as a guy who plays D and doesn't need the ball.  Having a defender next to Kyrie is always a good idea.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 02, 2019, 03:26:24 AM
Knox and others could benefit from learning the full science of man-help D with both switching and zone concepts and elements which do not ever come before the basics of sticking with, shutting out, wearing out, frustrating, and shutting down your fucking man. Switching is something you should be prepared to do, not looking to do. The sweet spot is where you are denying and passing angle to your man while stopping him from improving his position and shrinking the court for the offense.

The amount of really basic shit we don’t even try to do which every decent team does is mind blowing, truly staggering, and beyond explanation.

Yet we still almost win games.

We may be sprinting to the lead in the tank-a-thon despite the roster not because of it.

Perhaps the plan is to install JV level man to man or better next year when we have that extra Dallas pick waiting. Till then perhaps it’s frowned upon like moving off the ball to loosen up the defense before hoisting or posting.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 02, 2019, 03:38:10 AM
Knox often plays half a step too far off a perimeter guy with the ball, so guys can just shoot 3's over him.  He's too worried about the drive.  It all looks okay, as Knox is reasonably close, and his close out looks respectable.  But it's always too late, as he gives his man a bit too much room to start.

Away from the ball and on rebounds, Knox often forgets to keep track of his man.  Guys cut back door or zoom past him for boards.  This can be remedied with film and drilling.
I do like how he now follows his man and gets a decent amount of from-behind blocks.  Learning to use his length and athleticism.
I wish he'd apply that to layups on O too.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 02, 2019, 08:22:25 AM
Knox draft -

Divincenzo was a trade down move I recommended at the time.

Knox obviously has the size/length over the winner Dante -

Knicks have gone with athletes that they feel they can teach to play.  Mitch's missing college has become blatantly obvious, for instance, though his freakish athleticism sometimes pays a dividend.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 02, 2019, 09:59:20 AM
Lamar Peters with his James Harden act:

https://gleague.nba.com/player/lamar-peters/

41% from 3.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Pharoah on December 02, 2019, 12:32:32 PM
Last evening, the Knicks gave their fanbase a bit of deja vu, losing a second half lead and the game to Boston 104-113. Scott Perry and Steve Mills showed up ten games back to say they wanted improvement and the Knicks did offer a bit of improvement from being blown out frequently to playing more competitive basketball before giving up runs late. They're still losing though and it's hard to feel any optimism when the small improvements they've made haven't meant any more victories...but as someone who watches every game to try and let y'all know how things are trending, I've got to admit. Look no further than Julius Randle sharing the rock more often early in games or the steady settling in of DSJ and Dot as they get their form back. None of this is enough to turn a bad team into a playoff team, but it's at least kept the product watchable. More importantly, if these trends can continue we might actually start seeing the skeleton of a core forming. It's been rough, but let's see what direction we're moving in.

Frank: Frank Ntilikina started out with some promising aggression, missing a lay-up but quickly following up with a three point make. But he never quite seemed right and after his first trip to the bench, he went to the locker room. It turns out the French Prince was nursing a back injury, to go with the groin soreness that we've been seeing on injury reports. So Frank played just 7 minutes before shutting it down and the Knicks were left without their only consistently reliable PG of the season...but DSJ stepped up!

RJ: It's a testament to his upside that RJ Barrett can make a 4/13 performance a positive impact, quality contribution anyway. Barrett pulled this off by constantly attacking and getting to the free throw line. So over 35 minutes, the rookie pumped in 16 points, 7 boards, a steal and block on 4/13 from the field, 0/2 from three but also 8/13 from the free throw line. And yes, the free throw shooting is still worrisome, but his ability to get there is really promising regardless.

Barrett getting into the teeth of a defense creates openings for everyone. His misses inside are offensive rebound opportunities because so many defenders are out of place, collapsing to help stop a 19 year old rookie with crazy strength for his age. Barrett also locked in defensively on multiple occasions and contributed seven boards including some important ones. The guards gave up a lot of long offensive boards, RJ was the one perimeter guy really getting after those necessary rebounds.

Knox: In a move that's so Fizdale, Kevin Knox went from a DNP straight into the starting line-up to cover for Marcus Morris. This was a chance for the kid to start in his preferred position right after being sent a message from his coach about effort. Then, with an early weak side rotation, Young Kev blocked Kemba Walker and set a precedent for himself the rest of the way. Let's just say that Fizdale benched Kevin Knox and the kid responded well.

Knox posted 11 points, 5 boards and 2 blocks over a 22 minute run that included 2/6 from three. The former lottery pick was an immediate source for better spacing for the starters, operating almost exclusively behind the three point line whereas Morris tends to float into similar places that Randle, Taj, Portis and Mitch like to occupy. The kid attacked off the dribble some and took three's when he had space, a callback to how he started the season. But the more important standout was Kevin's defense. Don't get me wrong, he was far from perfect but Knox was locked in and focused. Outside of some early foul trouble that you might expect from a player turning up his effort, Kevin Knox turned in his best defensive effort in weeks!

Randle: I know that Julius Randle has become a bit of a fanbase whipping boy, but the amount that his approach has changed (especially early in games) is impressive. Randle has started the last three or four games by looking to get others going and let the offense come to him. But against the Celtics, facing the much smaller Marcus Smart, Julius Randle had every excuse to attack and chose not to. Instead, Randle spotted double teams and moved the ball until he could receive it with closer position to the rim. The result was one of his best games of the season.

Randle put up 26 points, 2 assist to 4 TO's and 5 rebounds on 8/16 from the field, 0/5 from three and 10/13 from the free throw line. The 25 year old has had more impressive stat lines, but even with 4 TO's, this was a more under control Julius Randle. He had a couple of TO's that came trying to draw defenders in and kick it out but his handle failed him and the passes didn't connect. Still, that's a far cry from just getting stripped on multiple forays into the paint.

More importantly, like Knox, Randle turned in an improved defensive effort. Also, just like Knox, that doesn't mean he was particularly good but Randle showed much more effort and had moments where his presence shined as an actual positive rather than a detriment to the team on defense. Randle still forced things late in the game when the team floundered and his defense is still a long way from being truly acceptable. But he's taken a nice stride in the right direction from a playstyle mindset.

Taj: I could copy and past most Taj performance descriptions. He's a steady role player and needed veteran presence. In this one he posted 4 points, 3 boards and 4 steals on 2/6 from the field in 20 minutes. It was a solid performance and he's a rare good fit for a mostly mismatched roster.

DSJ: In the absence of Frank Ntilikina or any other PG option, Dennis Smith Jr took a bit of time to find his rhythm but when he did...can I just tell everyone that this is why I keep saying he's worth patience? Smith became the engine of a transition offense for a while there. He'd sometimes beat his whole team down court, run through the paint and then pick out a trailer with a full head of steam for the rim. There were acrobatic finishes at times and at others Smith shot the ball well enough to respect it. We'll get into the negative aspects later, but for a nice chunk of game Dennis Smith Jr made the game easier for everyone on offense.

DSJ put up 17 points, 7 assists to 2 TO's and added a pair of blocks to the mix (a nice recovery block on Kemba Walker really stood out). The assist to turnover ratio wasn't the only place where Smith was highly efficient. The third year PG was 6/11 from the field and 2/3 from three point land even calling for the rock when he had space in the corner. His one downside was 3/6 from the free throw line aka the Knicks cursed FT shooting has him in its grips as well. But beyond the offense, Smith also put in a better defensive effort for most of the night. Just like Knox and Randle before him it wasn't perfect though...

So two issues were kinda glaring for Smith. One is that the defense is pretty obviously designed around Frank's flexibility. That's because Smith was continually the victim of being switched onto bigger guys like Tatum and even Williams at one point. He couldn't stop those guys on drives, jumpers or anything else...it was just a mismatch. The other issue is that he's not in the right shape to keep up his energy for 38 minutes. The kid ran out of steam late and when things tightened up, we were back to the familiar place of Randle in isolation with the entire defense shading him. But make no mistakes, this was a performance to build on especially since he's barely gotten his legs under him.

Dot: Damyean Dotson has had some weaker performances recently, but yesterday he showed his value to the fullest. Dot posted 10 points, 3 assists, 4 boards, 1 steal and 1 block over a 32 minute run. He was efficient as well, shooting 4/6 from the field and 2/4 from three while only turning over the rock once. Dot wasn't giving away possessions. That's important to note because this wasn't a floating game where Dotson roamed outside and just took open looks. The third year player attacked off the dribble a number of times and got good results.

The three ball is the most promising aspect of the game though. Dot has been looking for his jumper all season but in this one, he even took a step back three that was somewhat contested for a make. He looked closer to the Dot of last year, where too much space got punished. This is Dotson, the guy who can give you a little bit of everything but shouldn't be your best guy at any one thing. His is making secondary contributions across the board.

Wayne: Personally, I appreciate the spacing that the Dot and Wayne Ellington combination brings to the floor. They come off of the bench and immediately give everyone room to operate. But I also appreciate that Ellington is best utilized for 15 minutes a night unless he catches fire at some point. This game was a sweet spot of 13 minutes played, 1/2 shooting and a statline of 2 points, 3 boards and 1 assist to 1 TO. It was a solid contribution in limited time but one without forced three pointers and with a better effort to contribute in other areas.

Portis: In a similar manner to Ellington, I think of Bobby Portis as good at a certain amount of time and brutal at anything above it. The big man flirted with disaster based mainly on the fact that he simply could not make the C's pay for leaving him open. On most nights, Bobby would knock down the open three pointers he got but in this one that three ball held him back. His performance wasn't bad without it, but was missing a bit of bite. So Bobby posted 9 points and 6 boards off of 3/8 from the field and 1/4 from three in 21 minutes.

Playing BP more than that 21 minutes could have hurt as his defense is flawed and he's always a risk to try a little too much. But inside of that span, we got nothing really forced and just a solid contribution of rebounds and points. Not bad.

Mitch: This game seemed like more of a struggle for Mitchell Robinson than even his numbers suggest. He wasn't strong enough to keep up with Enes Kanter and that led to early fouls. Then he just didn't quite get his feet under him the rest of the way but was still solid. So Mitch put up 6 points, 5 boards and 2 TO's in a 20 minute span with yet another 6 fouls on his season. To be fair though, the last foul was an intentional one that was needed to stop the clock.

We still got a flash of spectacular as Mitch helped force a TO, outran everybody and received an alley-oop pass from behind himself to finish on a dunk. His athleticism flies off the screen at times, but he hasn't shown it as often or as comfortably since he rolled his ankle a while back. His lack of strength to deal with bigger Centers continues to shine as the second biggest issue holding him back with the fouling obviously as first. Even his timing has been a bit off, it's rare to see him play so long and pick up zero blocks. The foul trouble has gotten the lion's share of attention but I think there's a bit more going on. There are little things holding him back. Timing, health and chemistry can all come together still and I think his foul woes will be reduced a bit when they do.

Fiz: Well, I give David Fizdale a ton of crap and I am still worried about the slow development of the youth...but the youth is showing signs of stepping forward. Frank's been a revelation, Barrett was good from day one, but Knox responded to a challenge and DSJ was ready for a bigger load because he kept getting chances through struggles. Even Randle and Morris have stepped back from forcing the ball so much in recent efforts. The team really did take a few small steps forward in the games since the infamous press conference. It's just harder to see because the schedule got tougher and the Knicks still lost games.

I wanted to start off on a nice note, because I'm not gonna lie about the fact that Fizdale got outcoached pretty blatantly in the fourth quarter. The C's practically dared Randle to attack his defenders who were almost exclusively guards, but then they had well timed double teams completely break Randle's ability to produce. The C's came out of a Fizdale time out, forced an immediate turnover and continued on a massive run to close out the game. Tommy Dee mentioned on the KnicksfanTV post game show that in the prior two games, the C's outscored the Knicks coming out of Timeouts by 14 to 0. I doubt that improved much after yesterday.

That said, there was one clever move from Fiz. In the third quarter, Damyean Dotson came in for what looked like RJ. But with undersized Carsen Edwards coming into the game and no back-up PG's, Fiz pulled DSJ instead for a much needed breather. This meant below 6 foot Edwards had to try and guard RJ Barrett, an impossible challenge. So considering Fizdale was down two starters and up against a playoff team, I think he performed commendably in this one. He can't shoot free throws for these guys and this is a second game where the difference in missed FT's and the end result equals the difference between a win and a loss.

A philosophical shift: Here's one bit I want to add. The Knicks are close enough to the playoffs not to give up, but I think the best direction would be to hand the keys to the kids ASAP (aka December 15th via a trade or two). This team isn't ready to pull out tough wins whether the vets play or not. The most positive games happen when the kids are comfortable enough to take on a bigger role. Let's press our luck since we don't have any regardless. Knox as a starter was a much better player, DSJ with time and touches found rhythm, Frank saw the benefits of more demand from the offense early on as well.

This season has been ugly, but it'd be an easier pill to swallow if the kids were getting even more opportunities to shine. That's not just asking for minutes but for the ball in their hands. Will it lead to ugly TO's like Dot's late against the C's or Frank's the night before? Yes! But I can live with those TO's much more than Randle dribbling off his own leg or Ellington shooting before he ever sets his feet.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 02, 2019, 12:51:04 PM
I say Yes to Spencer D.  Love to have him.
But i also say No to making a deal with Brooklyn.
Don't like it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 02, 2019, 12:53:19 PM
Quote from: Pharoah on December 02, 2019, 12:32:32 PM
...but as someone who watches every game to try and let y'all know how things are trending, I've got to admit. Look no further than Julius Randle sharing the rock more often early in games or the steady settling in of DSJ and Dot as they get their form back. None of this is enough to turn a bad team into a playoff team, but it's at least kept the product watchable. More importantly, if these trends can continue we might actually start seeing the skeleton of a core forming. It's been rough, but let's see what direction we're moving in...........etc

That's what I'm saying! It's not all doom & gloom, though not quite ZoomZoom! Clear out a little room! Let the youth bloom!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 02, 2019, 12:59:44 PM
Pharoah - love ya dude - but Barrett wasn't good yesterday.

And "has been good from day one" is just a silly comment.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 02, 2019, 01:08:48 PM
R J Barrett

15+ game score just 1 time in last 15 (after 2 of first 4)

.400 or less fg shooting in 11 of 19 games

.500 or less from line 8 times in 19 games.

Smith/Ellington/Morris/Randle/Gibson
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 02, 2019, 01:10:55 PM
Where the hell was Taj last night, at 95-all?  This guy should be closing games.

And Alan Hahn gotta shut up - saying Randle cant be the late game scorer for this team.  I gave the stat.  58% in clutch this year.
Title: BoD
Post by: chipstern on December 02, 2019, 03:05:44 PM
Why in God's name would the Nyets contemplate trading SD to the Knicks, let alone to ANYONE?

He is a fixture, a fundamental cog in their machine. 

With Kyrie being as fragile as he is, force of nature when healthy though he is, SD's game and versatility as a facilitator and scorer takes on more import. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 02, 2019, 03:28:40 PM
Dinwiddie is a 42/32 shooter

Career 41/32
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 02, 2019, 03:29:12 PM
Partly money.
Kyree and KayDee make $72.5M next year.
Lavert's new deal kicks in at $16M.
Joe Harris needs a new deal, and they need his 3-Pt shooting.
Let's say Harris gets $14M, then Nets would be at $145M.

Nets need Kyrie and Lavert back healthy.
And will want to see what Wil can provide.
Do they have enough minutes to keep Dinwiddie content?
Maybe you're right that Kyrie is too fragile to forgo Spencer D.
But he's outplayed his role in BKY.  And that can be sticky.

Depends what Knix offer of course.
But we could give them a PG, a PF and a yute.
Morris, Smith/Franc, Knox would at least catch their attention.
Problem is it's hard to make the salaries match without them including DeandretheGiant.  And they don't want to move him since he's a KI/KD buddy, and we wouldn't want his yucky contract and iffy effort.

So it's unlikely to say the least.
I'm not sure how much I give up for Dinwiddie.
But he's intriguing.

Seems we could have had Lowry, Rubio, maybe Brogdon ...
Gotta get a legit PG starter from somewhere.
And right now Spencer Dim looks like the best backup PG out there, and ready to be a starter.
Title: Sigh
Post by: chipstern on December 02, 2019, 06:37:21 PM
Key part of the Nyets back court rotation, with a very reasonable contract. 

Too much time on your hands. 

Fuggedaboudit
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 02, 2019, 07:49:10 PM
Dennis can get 20-10 tonight and it won't matter to the masses.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 02, 2019, 07:56:22 PM
Mitch, Elfrid and one of Dallas's #1s for Dinwiddie and a #2.

Knicks get Spencer for ONE season before he opts out

Still want it?

Makes us better next year.  Certainly a playoff contender.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 02, 2019, 08:28:12 PM
I'm opposed to making deals to help Brooklyn win a Title...   

Unless it's lopsided in Knicks favor then No.

You want to help BKN win a chip?  Nah...

If the Knicks can't win i can accept that.

But not Brooklyn winning instead.

That would hurt.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Merciless on December 02, 2019, 08:59:05 PM
Could be the ugliest loss of the season tonight

This is our college football version of Rutgers playing Ohio State
Title: Knicks gear
Post by: Kam on December 02, 2019, 09:08:12 PM
I've been a Knick fan since 1983. 
I got my first Knicks hat earlier this year as a gift.
I've worn it maybe three times.   

It's a cool hat.

I'd wear it more often if this team was good.
Title: Struck Silent Bitches, You Got Your Wishes
Post by: lesterluv on December 02, 2019, 09:19:58 PM
I do believe some of you motherfuckers



own Dennis jr.


who is getting his 120th career start tonight, guess he needs another 120
how you like your boy Mr. Clank Sr...;;


*** If Frankie put that shit in the pot you'd be farting out your mouth and belching out your ass....


*** no Ntkilina no Morris no chance. Personally, I'm tuning out for half 2. Enough is enough. lol, lol, sigh.

* Full disclosure. I turned off the TV, but kept the gam3 on my phone. Out of the corner of my eye, I saw Randle bowl somebody over for another offensive foul and that the lead has ballooned to 40. off-This time i mean it!

*  l lied again. Still peeking. Kadeem Allen is leading a fourth quarter comeback!!!!!

So 538 has some kind of computer robot A.I. rating system that can't be argued with and ranks players...DJ is our absolute worst, Knox our second worst, Trier our third worst. Marcus our best, Mitch second, Frankie third. Not gonna argue with it cause it's scientifically impossible to do so. https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-nba-player-ratings/ (https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-nba-player-ratings/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 02, 2019, 09:53:12 PM
Quote from: Merciless on December 02, 2019, 08:59:05 PM
Could be the ugliest loss of the season tonight

This is our college football version of Rutgers playing Ohio State

Wow
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 02, 2019, 09:54:45 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 02, 2019, 09:53:12 PM
Quote from: Merciless on December 02, 2019, 08:59:05 PM
Could be the ugliest loss of the season tonight

This is our college football version of Rutgers playing Ohio State

Wow

Washington Generals
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 02, 2019, 10:02:15 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 02, 2019, 09:54:45 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 02, 2019, 09:53:12 PM
Quote from: Merciless on December 02, 2019, 08:59:05 PM
Could be the ugliest loss of the season tonight

This is our college football version of Rutgers playing Ohio State

Wow

Washington Generals

I had the exact same thought some 45 minutes ago.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 02, 2019, 10:06:12 PM
A bright spot with Kadeem Allan moving the ball around?

(maybe I'm reaching)

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 02, 2019, 10:11:43 PM
He does everything Djr. is supposed to do and didn't cost us porzingis —Gonna save our season for sure! Lead down to 33....
Title: Watch out
Post by: carlos123 on December 02, 2019, 10:26:33 PM
Looking forward to post-game by Phony Phizz 🤣
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on December 02, 2019, 11:15:36 PM
Quote from: elephant on December 02, 2019, 10:06:12 PM
A bright spot with Kadeem Allan moving the ball around?

(maybe I'm reaching)

No.  The team actually responded to Allen.  The D he brought to the game was electric.  Not enough to offset the deficit of course but that fourth quarter was actually exhilarating in some ways.
Title: This is bad
Post by: Kam on December 02, 2019, 11:18:51 PM
Does Dolan let this Front Office get to Dec 15th?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 02, 2019, 11:21:51 PM
Quote from: elephant on December 02, 2019, 10:06:12 PM
A bright spot with Kadeem Allan moving the ball around?

(maybe I'm reaching)

I thought the same thing.

Broke down the D.

Penetrated.

Defended.

Hit his threes.

PS: What was really startling to me, was how many times Shooters the likes of Ellington, let alone Barrett and Brazdeikis, not only missed their shots, but missed the f****** rim entirely. Not unlike the epic free throw shooting shit show.  Did I say wow?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 02, 2019, 11:38:38 PM
Yikes.
Smith-Knox-RJB combined 2-25 FG.

Looks like a DJ Willie sighting.
I'd rather DJ than Mr. Consistency (Portis)
Title: Les
Post by: carlos123 on December 03, 2019, 12:10:49 AM
Hey Les, who is the Western Conference player of the week?

It seems like everyone plays better when they leave the Knicks. That includes your beloved Zach. Even Thanasis, who woulda thunk?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 03, 2019, 08:48:34 AM
Turned it off when we were at 6-30 shooting.  I guess it was pretty ugly after that as well.

Good to see they brought Allen up as I asked and he did well.   
Title: Re: This is bad
Post by: Merciless on December 03, 2019, 09:10:50 AM
Quote from: Kam on December 02, 2019, 11:18:51 PM
Does Dolan let this Front Office get to Dec 15th?

Given this is Mills team and coach without excuses, maybe now Dolan sees Mills for what he really is... a useless POS
Title: Re: This is bad
Post by: Kam on December 03, 2019, 12:50:31 PM
Quote from: Merciless on December 03, 2019, 09:10:50 AM
Quote from: Kam on December 02, 2019, 11:18:51 PM
Does Dolan let this Front Office get to Dec 15th?

Given this is Mills team and coach without excuses, maybe now Dolan sees Mills for what he really is... a useless POS

The record was 2-8 when the press conference happened.
The record since is 2-9.

Do  you give this front office the chance to fix things by letting them pick the next coach and make the Dec15 trades?

I don't trust this bunch.  If these are Scott Perry decisions or Mills decisions, they're joined. I don't see how one outlasts the other.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 03, 2019, 02:15:36 PM
Do  you give this front office the chance to fix things by letting them pick the next coach and make the Dec15 trades?


Yes.  Unless Phil wants to come back.

C'mon. Dolan - remember Billy Martin?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 03, 2019, 07:57:36 PM
Give the keys to Miller. That is the obvious step one.
Title: Re: This is bad
Post by: elephant on December 03, 2019, 11:04:47 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 03, 2019, 12:50:31 PM
Quote from: Merciless on December 03, 2019, 09:10:50 AM
Quote from: Kam on December 02, 2019, 11:18:51 PM
Does Dolan let this Front Office get to Dec 15th?

Given this is Mills team and coach without excuses, maybe now Dolan sees Mills for what he really is... a useless POS

The record was 2-8 when the press conference happened.
The record since is 2-9.

Do  you give this front office the chance to fix things by letting them pick the next coach and make the Dec15 trades?

I don't trust this bunch.  If these are Scott Perry decisions or Mills decisions, they're joined. I don't see how one outlasts the other.

He needs to go.

It's not a "disgruntled fan" sensibility. There's no accountability. There are 30 teams in the NBA. Under Mills leadership, the New York fucking Knicks have become the worse team in basketball. Why does the man still have a job? He makes serious money. How in the world do some people keep failing upwards? Really, it mystifies me sometimes, because it's obvious he's not suited for this vocation. But nope, the slo-mo incompetence goes on and on.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 04, 2019, 08:28:04 AM
The obvious way to salvage this season is to embrace the tank, trade off vets for yute/picks, and nab another Top 5 or Top 6 pick.
To me a 17 W season is better than a 27 W one.
First off, you get a high pick.  But also you're not fooled into thinking you're close or have pretty good pieces.  So it forces you to evaluate and be ruthless about who to keep.

Morris has played very well.  Find a playoff team for him. 
Also, A lot of teams need depth.
Ellingtonia, Taj, Portis, one of our PG's can be jettisoned.
Package them up to boost a playoff aspirant.
Collect assets.
It would be a good recovery from the short--contract FA splurge we took.
PerryMills just explain that we loaded up on FA vets to see who would fit and who would be an asset to trade.

Again, all this would be a lot more palette-able if we had KZ-RJB-Knox-Top 5 pick - Franc.  But we can still grasp our way forward.  Patience.
Also, mid-season deals tend to go down closer to the trade deadline.  Of course a team like POR with injuries and seeing its season slip away (also SAS?) might be up for a Dec trade.  Though Melo has unexpectedly steadied them (against very weak competition so far ...).

Unfortunately, while the Knix have drafted well the past decade plus, our trades have been poor to horrendous.  The two trades with DAL -- TyC and KZ -- have been awful.  I liked Phil's mini-deal moving Tim Jr for a mid-1st, but Jerian Grant didn't pan out.  I can't really recall what we got for Melo, but at least we traded him at the right time, before he became a fossil. 

So do you trust the Knix or this Knick front office to make a good deal for Morris, and others?  I'd be looking to make 2 deals.  One with Morris, maybe plus a PG.  And another with role players going out.  Taj is valuable for a playoff team.  Ellington viable.  Portis can eat up 20 minutes, but likely has marginal value.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 04, 2019, 10:39:49 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 04, 2019, 08:28:04 AM
I can't really recall what we got for Melo, but at least we traded him at the right time, before he became a fossil. 


Kanter, McDermott (who became Mudiay), and a 2nd rd pick we used on Mitchell Robinson.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 04, 2019, 10:41:31 AM
Only Morris AND Randle have enough value to fetch a decent return.

You're just getting 2nd rounders for everyone else like the PGs and maybe Portis.

Taj is this year's DeAndre.... someone will wait for us to buy him out.

Ellington another buyout.
Title: Re: This is bad
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 04, 2019, 10:59:30 AM
Quote from: elephant on December 03, 2019, 11:04:47 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 03, 2019, 12:50:31 PM
Quote from: Merciless on December 03, 2019, 09:10:50 AM
Quote from: Kam on December 02, 2019, 11:18:51 PM
Does Dolan let this Front Office get to Dec 15th?

Given this is Mills team and coach without excuses, maybe now Dolan sees Mills for what he really is... a useless POS

The record was 2-8 when the press conference happened.
The record since is 2-9.

Do  you give this front office the chance to fix things by letting them pick the next coach and make the Dec15 trades?

I don't trust this bunch.  If these are Scott Perry decisions or Mills decisions, they're joined. I don't see how one outlasts the other.

He needs to go.

It's not a "disgruntled fan" sensibility. There's no accountability. There are 30 teams in the NBA. Under Mills leadership, the New York fucking Knicks have become the worse team in basketball. Why does the man still have a job? He makes serious money. How in the world do some people keep failing upwards? Really, it mystifies me sometimes, because it's obvious he's not suited for this vocation. But nope, the slo-mo incompetence goes on and on.

I think Mills would get another NBA job if we dumped him
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 04, 2019, 11:04:57 AM
I think we keep Morris and try to re-sign him.  And we keep Randle.

I will tally up salaries and see what this gives us for next summer
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 04, 2019, 11:13:49 AM
Randle      18.9mil
Morris        15 mil (est)
Portis           0
Gibson          0
Payton         0
Barrett       8.2 mil
Ellington       0
Ntlikina       6.2 mil
Smith         5.7 mil
Knox          4.6 mil
Bullock         0
Trier            0
Dotson        0
Robinson      1.7 mil
Brazdekis      1.5 mil
Rabb              0
Allen              0
Noah           6.4 mil
#1 draft pick       10mil (est)


9 players         78.2 mil
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 04, 2019, 11:20:19 AM
Depth chart prior to draft and FA moves


Frank      Dennis
R J
Marcus    Knox    #1 pick???
Randle     Ignas
Mitch


About 40 mil to spend on free agents

Yeah, I give Mills a crack at this
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 04, 2019, 11:30:34 AM
I havent seen much of next year's rookie crop

BALL AVDIJA and CAREY on the radar right now  YURTZEVEN WINSTON TILLIE and T JONES as second rounders

Most interested in seeing ANTHONY, EDWARDS, WISEMAN and MANNION as additional possibles with first pick
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 04, 2019, 12:11:36 PM
I totally blanked on the Melo deal.
Even had trouble remembering which team we sent him to for a bit.
So we got nada for him.  Okay, Mitch is intriguing, and it's good to have extra 2nd round picks.  But usually they don't amount to much.

I was for trading Melo a year earlier.

I notice a pattern wherein teams dump unwanted C's on us -- Dalembert, Kanter, DeAndre3000.  And Knick fans try to get excited.

Knix actually gave a 2nd rounder to SacKings to obtain GM Perry . . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 04, 2019, 01:10:27 PM
yeah - guys playing well for us dont count - if they are no longer here.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 04, 2019, 01:15:34 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 04, 2019, 11:30:34 AM
I havent seen much of next year's rookie crop

BALL AVDIJA and CAREY on the radar right now  YURTZEVEN WINSTON TILLIE and T JONES as second rounders

Most interested in seeing ANTHONY, EDWARDS, WISEMAN and MANNION as additional possibles with first pick

Georgia's Anthony Edwards is this year's Zion.  Just smaller.  6'5" 225.  Not sure that's a good thing.  Might be less susceptible to injury, but also might struggle against NBA comp.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 04, 2019, 01:38:24 PM
Knicks are flipping with Charlotte for second round right?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 04, 2019, 02:51:36 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 04, 2019, 01:38:24 PM
Knicks are flipping with Charlotte for second round right?

Phil traded ALL of OUR second round picks away.  None of our own until 2022.

Charlotte will convey their 2020 & 2021 second round picks in exchange for Hernan-Gomez. 

Dallas will convey their 2021 #1, and 2023 (with protections) from the KP trade. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 04, 2019, 03:27:00 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 04, 2019, 02:51:36 PM
Phil traded ALL of OUR second round picks away.  None of our own until 2022.

Guess he didn't expect us to vie for the worst record and for them to be in the #31-33 range . . .

Quote
Charlotte will convey their 2020 & 2021 second round picks in exchange for Hernan-Gomez. 

Willie is a crap defender.  Can board and score inside.  But can't protect the rim or shoot 3's.  So we're better off with the 2nd round picks.
I do like Juancho ...

Quote
Dallas will convey their 2021 #1, and 2023 (with protections) from the KP trade.

Unfortunately, they could be quite good by that time.
They already look like a playoff team, picking around 16-21 this year.
And after they add a FA over the Summer, add a midround pick, fine tune their roster, and KZ gets hisself together more, the picks we get likely fall in the 20's. . .
Title: LMAO
Post by: lesterluv on December 04, 2019, 03:45:09 PM
Pops continues to provide pleasure in the midst of his most trying season.

https://www.poundingtherock.com/2019/12/4/20994799/best-game-ever-san-antonio-spurs-beat-houston-rockets-double-overtime-lonnie-walker-iv-jakob-poeltl (https://www.poundingtherock.com/2019/12/4/20994799/best-game-ever-san-antonio-spurs-beat-houston-rockets-double-overtime-lonnie-walker-iv-jakob-poeltl)

Russ 7 for 30
Harden 11 for 38!

The bad dunk call makes everything immeasurably sweeter.

Thank you for delivering us from evil yet again.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 04, 2019, 03:54:15 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 04, 2019, 02:51:36 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 04, 2019, 01:38:24 PM
Knicks are flipping with Charlotte for second round right?

Phil traded ALL of OUR second round picks away.  None of our own until 2022.

Charlotte will convey their 2020 & 2021 second round picks in exchange for Hernan-Gomez. 

Dallas will convey their 2021 #1, and 2023 (with protections) from the KP trade.

We have CHA pick in '20, right?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 04, 2019, 03:56:34 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 04, 2019, 03:27:00 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 04, 2019, 02:51:36 PM
Phil traded ALL of OUR second round picks away.  None of our own until 2022.

Guess he didn't expect us to vie for the worst record and for them to be in the #31-33 range . . .

Quote
Charlotte will convey their 2020 & 2021 second round picks in exchange for Hernan-Gomez. 

Willie is a crap defender.  Can board and score inside.  But can't protect the rim or shoot 3's.  So we're better off with the 2nd round picks.
I do like Juancho ...

Quote
Dallas will convey their 2021 #1, and 2023 (with protections) from the KP trade.

Unfortunately, they could be quite good by that time.
They already look like a playoff team, picking around 16-21 this year.
And after they add a FA over the Summer, add a midround pick, fine tune their roster, and KZ gets hisself together more, the picks we get likely fall in the 20's. . .

Unless one of the Euros - or both - is injured in 2020
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 04, 2019, 04:19:37 PM
Georgia's Anthony Edwards is this year's Zion.  Just smaller.  6'5" 225.  Not sure that's a good thing. 


uhhhh....   what?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 04, 2019, 04:24:06 PM
With pick #44, Knicks select JIMMERRRRR.........





I mean Jimma.....   Gatwech


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHvacmECEHQ
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Merciless on December 04, 2019, 05:39:08 PM
Perhaps there is hope for us after all. If these misfits are willing to sell and move on.....all for the betterment of the fan base maybe there's hope for the Knicks

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/mets-owners-reportedly-in-talks-to-sell-80-percent-of-team-wilpons-to-remain-in-roles-for-five-years/amp/&ved=2ahUKEwjh9MuJh53mAhVFjlkKHSqfAEsQ0PADMAN6BAgFEAo&usg=AOvVaw0aw-bBo7n95k4kWn2MV0z0&ampcf=1 (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/mets-owners-reportedly-in-talks-to-sell-80-percent-of-team-wilpons-to-remain-in-roles-for-five-years/amp/&ved=2ahUKEwjh9MuJh53mAhVFjlkKHSqfAEsQ0PADMAN6BAgFEAo&usg=AOvVaw0aw-bBo7n95k4kWn2MV0z0&ampcf=1)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 04, 2019, 08:59:15 PM
Its getting catty out there regarding our coaching.
Title: Hope springs eternal
Post by: carlos123 on December 04, 2019, 10:09:46 PM
Quote from: Merciless on December 04, 2019, 05:39:08 PM
Perhaps there is hope for us after all. If these misfits are willing to sell and move on.....all for the betterment of the fan base maybe there's hope for the Knicks

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/mets-owners-reportedly-in-talks-to-sell-80-percent-of-team-wilpons-to-remain-in-roles-for-five-years/amp/&ved=2ahUKEwjh9MuJh53mAhVFjlkKHSqfAEsQ0PADMAN6BAgFEAo&usg=AOvVaw0aw-bBo7n95k4kWn2MV0z0&ampcf=1 (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/mets-owners-reportedly-in-talks-to-sell-80-percent-of-team-wilpons-to-remain-in-roles-for-five-years/amp/&ved=2ahUKEwjh9MuJh53mAhVFjlkKHSqfAEsQ0PADMAN6BAgFEAo&usg=AOvVaw0aw-bBo7n95k4kWn2MV0z0&ampcf=1)

But what makes you think Folan will do as the Wilpons?

By the way, the Mets already lost Zach Wheeler to the Phillies. Not a very good way to start for Cohen, if his deal with the Wilpons goes thru.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 04, 2019, 10:34:44 PM
Mets get a nice draft pick out of it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on December 05, 2019, 08:46:30 AM
I watched Bradzekis in the G League,  Dude is fearless and can score from all spots on the floor.  Shit can't get no worse, lets give him some real burn and see what we got.  This is why I can't stand Fizdale, you're losing like fuck and you steadily keep playing the vets 30-40 minutes a game like they are helping us win.  See who is on our bench so we can know what we got moving forward.  It might be time for a yard sale already.  Randall don't look mad enough for me, get angry at these losses.  Throw a chair, scream at a fan, gimme suttin.  Another $199 wasted on league pass to watch these scrubs get burned, but I have fell in love with the Suns, That  squad is gonna be nice. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 05, 2019, 02:57:22 PM
Sure bro.  While Morris is out. Iggy may surpass Knox. But would he get the chance?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 05, 2019, 03:01:11 PM
Sund back to earth. Blazers on a roll. Whiteside 22, 16 and 7
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 05, 2019, 03:23:20 PM
POR won 4 of 5 against weak teams.

Their easy schedule continues with 7 of the next 9 against non-playoff teams up to Xmas.  Lakes and @DEN two tough games in the next 4, then 5 easy ones.

From Jan 6 to Feb 8 they have a real rough month, so better stock up on wins now.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 05, 2019, 04:50:40 PM
YG doesnt like Whiteside

heh

-------

Denver tonight.  We get to again see Knicks players running frantically at the defensive end, switching at a rapid pace and being two steps late closing out on threes.

Maybe we start better than 6-30 and I can watch more than a quarter.  Otherwise Bears-Cowboys it is
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on December 05, 2019, 04:52:15 PM
Kiidcarter likes Jimmer Fredette.  Heh.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 05, 2019, 05:07:16 PM
What are the bad Blazer losses?

Nets at home
Warriors, Kings, Pelicans, Cavs - road

Those teams need to win sometimes

Road wins for Blazers -
Mavs, Thunder, Spurs, Bulls

5-9 road overall

Lakers in LA tomorrow - then Knicks, Thunder at home

11-14 wouldnt be too bad after the rough patch

0-2 without Lillard
0-3 without Whiteside
7-12 without Collins
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 05, 2019, 05:08:46 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on December 05, 2019, 04:52:15 PM
Kiidcarter likes Jimmer Fredette.  Heh.

Getting a lot out of his God given talent
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 05, 2019, 05:23:34 PM
Jimmer this year is

47-83 from 3-pt territory

and

55-60 on FT

37%/88% in NBA career.

Shooter's gonna shoot
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Merciless on December 05, 2019, 08:36:37 PM
I'd rather watch reruns of the Golden Girls than this revolting team.

Truly Fucking Pathetic.
Title: TFP
Post by: lesterluv on December 05, 2019, 08:48:06 PM
Fiz has got to catch the blade tonight, right?


****Porzingis one smart m'fer
Title: But no matter who is coaching....
Post by: lesterluv on December 05, 2019, 08:58:28 PM
I own having Frankie shoot 3's over Dennis...shoot anything over Dennis...1st Q, 4 Q, crunch time, night time, day time, in a box, on a train, with a goat...anywhere

M'fn MONOPOLY
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 05, 2019, 09:19:11 PM
Rookie ladder

https://www.nba.com/rookie-ladder
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 05, 2019, 09:23:45 PM
Awesome Knick performance!

Holding the strong shooting Nuggets to some 98 points!

(now enter the 4th quarter)
Title: What The Fuck
Post by: chipstern on December 05, 2019, 09:31:19 PM
We are behind by 30-35-40. 

Why the fuck is Ellington out there, in lieu of Ziggy and Trier. 

Wassup with that, Fizz? 

And just like that, ANOTHER FUCKING THREE....Denver shooting 18-of-30 from trey. 

How is that possible? 

What the fuck? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 05, 2019, 09:37:52 PM
Why the fuck is Ellington out there, in lieu of Ziggy and Trier.


Earns it in practice

C'mon, man -
Trier won't be back.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 05, 2019, 09:49:23 PM
See what the new coach thinks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 05, 2019, 09:50:01 PM
Improvement!

Last game lost by 44. This one only 37!

Keep the faith, soon we'll be losing games in the 20's!

It's all part of the "process" engineered by the most savvy executives in the NBA.
Title: fortunately...
Post by: lesterluv on December 05, 2019, 09:53:28 PM
there's a good game going on up in Toronto!
Title: Well Now...
Post by: chipstern on December 05, 2019, 09:56:28 PM
Says you, your smugness.  Trier at least knows how to create some offense. 

Defense?  Now there's an original idea, like Ellington is such a stopper.  Hell, Jimmer for that matter. 

Not like we couldn't use some offense. 

Knicks shoot 9-34 from trey [26.5%] and 15-23 from the FT line [65.2%], and 34-83 total [40.2%].

Nuggets pretty woeful from the FT line, but 21-39 [55.3%] from trey and 49-87 total [56.3%]. 

Have been playing competitively in the first quarter, but when the first couple of punches land, and teams start raining threes, you can just see the fight drain the fuck out of them. 

Ah me...

What good is firing anyone at this time going to do? 

Want to clean house? 

April, with some sort of plan in mind perhaps, but is Dolan going to essay a plan for new VP, GM and Coach? 

Is that going to enhance our offensive coherence or inculcate three point defense? 

[COUGH]
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 05, 2019, 09:59:55 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 05, 2019, 09:49:23 PM
See what the new coach thinks.

about
trier?

please
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 05, 2019, 10:02:44 PM
April, with some sort of plan in mind perhaps, but is Dolan going to essay a plan for new VP, GM and Coach?


I think there is already a plan.

April?  No.  Sooner than that

Look at some of Bo's posts

I like Morris staying, but we will likely move him.

Randle stays.

Others - open season - and sooner rather than later.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 05, 2019, 10:03:45 PM
Wow - Cam Johnson can really shoot.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 05, 2019, 11:42:26 PM
I see Smith left the game down 4 in 2nd quarter and re-entered down 27 deep in the 3rd

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 06, 2019, 12:59:55 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 05, 2019, 10:02:44 PM
I like Morris staying, but we will likely move him.
Randle stays.

I wouldn't keep both Randle and Morris.
As Clyde frequently points out, they rarely play well in the same game, and both have iso tendencies, not compatible.

I would like to keep Morris for his effort, skill, and ability to mentor Knox.  But he's our most valuable trade chip as he's pretty plug'n'play on any team.  Besides his age doesn't match our time frame, and he's miscast as a #1 or even #2 option, and we don't have and are unlikely to bring in Big Dogs to outrank him.  So a good player to have but more valuable elsewhere.

If we could move Randle, I'd be more up for keeping Morristown.
Maybe we can trade Randle to an NFL team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 06, 2019, 01:09:26 AM
Another team shoots lights out on 3's v. Knix.
I figured DEN's ball movement O and good shooters would bury us. 
Knix are really bad at scramble defense.

Knix starters only played half the game, but just 2-4 on FT's.

I was giving Wil Barton some ish, and still wonder how Nugs will defend LeBJ, Kawhi, etc.  But Barton having career bests in 3Pt% and Boards, and 2nd best in most other categories.  Looking like his best year.  But DEN needs to become a playoff force.

I'd take Monte Morris and Juancho/Porter for Morris (I think).
Morris would toughen them up.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 06, 2019, 07:21:40 AM
So....

who votes Buechler and who votes Smart?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 06, 2019, 07:24:49 AM
See how good Morris and Randle play together with a Cole Anthony or a LaMelo to help them out.

Likely won't though - You are right - as I said - and you seemed to agree - likely Morris is dealt.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 06, 2019, 07:42:27 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 05, 2019, 11:42:26 PM
I see Smith left the game down 4 in 2nd quarter and re-entered down 27 deep in the 3rd

heh

If that's all you saw, you are legally blind.
Dennis was flat-out awful. And his initial check in was where the game turned. Destroyed on D and Clank. Clank. Clank. Clank. Clank. Clank. You OWN every Clank.


*** Meanwhile, Frankie nails his first three 3's. Season avg up to 36.5 For comparison, Dotson 31.5. Barrett 30.9, Ellington 30.4, and DJr. clinging to 30.0,  33 from the floor overall and 56% Yow! from the line.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 06, 2019, 08:03:45 AM
I think you should look more closely at the ESPN game log.

Have to see Dennis more with the first squad.  Can't possibly judge otherwise.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 06, 2019, 08:06:58 AM
Payton's back.  Fiz has been so complementary of Dennis - maybe opposite of what he needs at times - how is he to tell Smith now that he will get some DNPs?

Or are we going to try to shuffle 3 guys?

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 06, 2019, 08:35:18 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 06, 2019, 08:03:45 AM
I think you should look more closely at the ESPN game log.


Why would I need to do that? I watched it. (Sick right? I've had this problem since 1970.) But if you insist. 4:31 left in the first quarter. Knicks have lead. Frank leaves game. Dennis Smith Jr. replaces him.

Now I will give you that what we are seeing lately makes nobody look good. I could make some suggestions about use scenarios that might help him, but don't think there's a point until coach is replaced and everything changes anyway. Has to happen shortly, right? Or is Dolan going to keep letting this play out?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Merciless on December 06, 2019, 09:16:19 AM
"This is the first time in Knicks history — a history that dates to 1946 — they have lost by 30 or more points in back-to-back games. Think about that for a second. They are actually three games worse than last year’s team, a team whose unstated mission was to finish as close to 0-82 as humanly possible. This time, we are told, they are trying."

https://nypost.com/2019/12/05/everyone-in-knicks-organization-is-to-blame-for-this-disaster/ (https://nypost.com/2019/12/05/everyone-in-knicks-organization-is-to-blame-for-this-disaster/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 06, 2019, 09:42:28 AM
Given our history, it's breathtaking that we are still finding ways to hit new lows — but maybe we just needed this guy:

Scott Perry hasn’t been a part of a front office with a winning record in 13 seasons, which seems almost impossible ....

I'm hoping the delay in firing Fiz is just cause Dolan is consulting with the league as to who should caretake the front office after all three go...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 06, 2019, 09:54:52 AM
Knix gave up a 1st rounder to get Perry.
And gave him a 5 year contract.
Maybe it has a no-fire clause . . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 06, 2019, 10:29:50 AM
Zach Lowe critiques the Mitch/Randle conundrum.
I was hoping Mitch could clean up Randle and others messes on D.
But they don't work together on O.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/28229609/ten-nba-things-like-including-rondo-lebron-combo
Scroll down to #2.

I've often said that Randle strikes me as a hard guy to fit on a team.
He has skills, but how do you build a team that utilizes them?
Seems you need a stretch 5 who can defend the rim.  Not many of those.  Ma Gasol, Bropez, er ...)
Randle is good on the break, so having a push-the-pace PG would help -- Smith or Elf could do that, at least in theory.  And getting Randle a few easy baskets could help his in-game confidence.  And of course just having good PG play would help everyone to some degree.

Is anyone still on board with Randle?
I'd trade him for anything.  Now or later.
Preferably when his value has risen.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 06, 2019, 10:41:06 AM
Yes, fitting pieces around him is surely difficult and well beyond Fizdale's talents. Would have been interesting to see him paired in a frontcourt with Porzingis.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 06, 2019, 11:20:55 AM
Yeah, Zinger can defend inside and shoot 3's.
Might work.

I still can't believe how everyone just shrugged when we traded KZ for crapola.  Or that he's gone.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Merciless on December 06, 2019, 12:28:03 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 06, 2019, 11:20:55 AM
Yeah, Zinger can defend inside and shoot 3's.
Might work.

I still can't believe how everyone just shrugged when we traded KZ for crapola.  Or that he's gone.

What part about how he wanted out doesn't everyone understand?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Merciless on December 06, 2019, 12:33:34 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on December 06, 2019, 09:42:28 AM
Given our history, it's breathtaking that we are still finding ways to hit new lows — but maybe we just needed this guy:

Scott Perry hasn’t been a part of a front office with a winning record in 13 seasons, which seems almost impossible ....

I'm hoping the delay in firing Fiz is just cause Dolan is consulting with the league as to who should caretake the front office after all three go...

Mills is and has been very much behind the demise of this franchise.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Merciless on December 06, 2019, 12:39:15 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 06, 2019, 09:54:52 AM
Knix gave up a 1st rounder to get Perry.
And gave him a 5 year contract.
Maybe it has a no-fire clause . . .

2nd round pick and cash
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 06, 2019, 12:46:17 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 06, 2019, 10:29:50 AM

Is anyone still on board with Randle?
I'd trade him for anything.  Now or later.
Preferably when his value has risen.

Addition by subtraction.  Take Randle out and move Morris to PF.
Everything just fits into place better after that.
Mitch/Taj with Morris works.
Minutes open up at SF for your recent picks Frank,Kevin,RJ.
Dotson gets more time as RJ and Frank swing to SF
Frank playing off the ball gives Payton/Smith more time.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 06, 2019, 12:48:38 PM
Quote from: Merciless link=topic=11.msg108958#msg108958
What part about how he wanted out doesn't everyone understand?

What part of he didn't go into that meeting demanding a trade and you didn't have to trade him that second regardless do you not understand?


*** In any case, one smart m'fer....IQ way too high for us
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Merciless on December 06, 2019, 12:55:57 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on December 06, 2019, 12:48:38 PM
Quote from: Merciless link=topic=11.msg108958#msg108958
What part about how he wanted out doesn't everyone understand?

What part of he didn't go into that meeting demanding a trade and you didn't have to trade him that second regardless do you not understand?


*** In any case, one smart m'fer....

I understand not demanding a trade and still wanting out are the same thing. PJ fucked the relationship with KP, KP's brother had some fucked up demands, the guy was injured, tons of shit happened along the way and its relatively clear to me that KP wanted to move on.

All things considered we got 2 first rounders, DSjr (yes we know how you feel) and got rid of Lee and Hardaway's contracts. Mills was the genius behind giving Hardaway $70M+ in teh first place. Schmuck! (Mills not you). Also, the longer we waited I'm pretty sure the less we would have been offered considering the injury. If he had stayed on, I'm pretty sure, given our luck, he would've stepped in a hole at the garden and been out another year. 

All in all what I'm coming around to is we are young, we are going to get our teeth kicked in every night and we'll continue to build from here.

What insults me is Mills & Perry stating this team as part of their Plan B was supposed to be competitive.
Title: We would be more competitive under a decent coach
Post by: Kam on December 06, 2019, 01:46:57 PM
Quote from: Merciless on December 06, 2019, 12:55:57 PM

What insults me is Mills & Perry stating this team as part of their Plan B was supposed to be competitive.

Well... to be fair it is mostly Fizdale's fault that we aren't in the hunt for the 8th seed.

Check out this quote from Monte Morris to Rebecca Harlow after the game:

THE SCOUTING REPORT ON THE KICKS IS TO HAVE SHOOTERS READY BECAUSE THEY ONLY GUARD THE PAINT

That's the coach coming up with a machiavellian strategy to get shit-canned so he can go coach the somewhere else. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 06, 2019, 01:57:45 PM
Quote from: Merciless on December 06, 2019, 12:28:03 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 06, 2019, 11:20:55 AM
Yeah, Zinger can defend inside and shoot 3's.
Might work.

I still can't believe how everyone just shrugged when we traded KZ for crapola.  Or that he's gone.

What part about how he wanted out doesn't everyone understand?

The why.
Help me out with the why.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 06, 2019, 02:07:21 PM
Sorry, thought I typed 2nd rounder, not sure why I wrote 1st rounder.
I had it right a few days ago.

Phil was out and we had a new coach.
Pretty much a clean slate.
And we were set to tank to add a Top 5 pick.
It should have been KZ's team.

I said early on when KZ's brother seemed a hassle that you give him a comfy job as one of our Euro scouts with a nice salary.  So he feels part of the team, but is out of the way.  Gets to hang close to home with a good salary, so he doesn't have to mooch off his bro (as agent/handout-taker).

All-star level young guys nearing the end of their rook contract never sour on their team and demand a trade.  (or has it happened before?).
So what happened?  What went wrong?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 06, 2019, 03:05:41 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 06, 2019, 02:07:21 PM

It should have been KZ's team.


So what happened?  What went wrong?

KP over played his hand.

He was demanding a lot after delivering little and then bluffed that he would go back to Europe (killing any trade value) so the Knicks had no option.  It should have been KPs team but he big-timed his way off the team.


If his goal was to remain a Knick forever he over played his hand.  Backed the team into a corner.  WHAT WAS KPs END GAME DOING THAT? 

You need to ask the right questions. Don't just assume Knicks dysfunction chased KP away.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 06, 2019, 03:17:57 PM
Quote from: Merciless on December 06, 2019, 12:55:57 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on December 06, 2019, 12:48:38 PM
Quote from: Merciless link=topic=11.msg108958#msg108958
What part about how he wanted out doesn't everyone understand?

What part of he didn't go into that meeting demanding a trade and you didn't have to trade him that second regardless do you not understand?


*** In any case, one smart m'fer....

I understand not demanding a trade and still wanting out are the same thing. PJ fucked the relationship with KP, KP's brother had some fucked up demands, the guy was injured, tons of shit happened along the way and its relatively clear to me that KP wanted to move on.

All things considered we got 2 first rounders, DSjr (yes we know how you feel) and got rid of Lee and Hardaway's contracts. Mills was the genius behind giving Hardaway $70M+ in teh first place. Schmuck! (Mills not you). Also, the longer we waited I'm pretty sure the less we would have been offered considering the injury. If he had stayed on, I'm pretty sure, given our luck, he would've stepped in a hole at the garden and been out another year. 

All in all what I'm coming around to is we are young, we are going to get our teeth kicked in every night and we'll continue to build from here.

What insults me is Mills & Perry stating this team as part of their Plan B was supposed to be competitive.

It WAS.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 06, 2019, 03:21:59 PM
I am sure Perry envisioned Gibson as a starter.  And Payton as well.  The team assembled is not the team we now see on the floor.  It could be.  I see no reason why Mitch should be getting more than 18-20 minutes and no reason once Payton has his legs that Frank should be starting.

Time will tell.
Title: FIZ FIRED
Post by: Kam on December 06, 2019, 03:59:22 PM
Keith Smart also fired
Title: Bombs
Post by: Kam on December 06, 2019, 04:00:14 PM
Adrian Wojnarowski
✔
@wojespn
Knicks fired coach David Fizdale, league source tells ESPN.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Merciless on December 06, 2019, 04:04:37 PM
God damn I was close... said it would happen when they were 15 games under .500

I will be forever haunted missing it by 1 loss...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Merciless on December 06, 2019, 04:09:59 PM
No where to run or hide now for those Sack of Shit Brothers, Mills and Perry.....gutless fuckers just pulled out the last card they could play.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 06, 2019, 04:15:54 PM
Adrian Wojnarowski
✔
@wojespn
Knicks assistants Mike Miller and Pat Sullivan are candidates to become interim head coach, league sources tell
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 06, 2019, 04:22:04 PM
Quote from: Merciless on December 06, 2019, 04:04:37 PM
God damn I was close... said it would happen when they were 15 games under .500

I will be forever haunted missing it by 1 loss...

You called it. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 06, 2019, 04:29:11 PM
And I think we are far enough in the hole that even if we figure things out, play better, win some, and raise players’ value, we’ll still get a pretty good pick.

I’m rooting for an offense and defense our players understand well enough to execute.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jerrya on December 06, 2019, 04:41:56 PM
Christmas came early.  Happiest I've been for a Knick fan in years.  Just hope they get rid of the other 2 clowns, Perry and Mills so new management can do the new coach hiring.  No need to rush.  Let the interim coach finish the season and hire new GM and President to begin coaching search.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on December 06, 2019, 05:08:06 PM
Geez, the Knicks have a better record than the Warriors.  What more could Fizdale have done?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 06, 2019, 05:24:21 PM
Fizdale fired.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 06, 2019, 05:27:18 PM
Quote from: Jerrya on December 06, 2019, 04:41:56 PM
Christmas came early.  Happiest I've been for a Knick fan in years.  Just hope they get rid of the other 2 clowns, Perry and Mills so new management can do the new coach hiring. 

I dont think its happening.  Dolan loves Mills.

But a blase' trading season could make it so.

How silly that we passed on  so many better coaching candidates just to entice LBJ.

22 mil.

Heh.

Happy spending, Fiz.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 06, 2019, 06:10:21 PM
It's MILLER as interim.

Blahhhhh.....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 06, 2019, 07:52:55 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 06, 2019, 03:05:41 PM



KP over played his hand.

LOL What are you possibly talking about? He played perfectly. He has everything he could possibly want. Future hall of fame coach. Great teammates. Top organization. Max deal. Career set. Talk about the good life.



Quote
Don't just assume Knicks dysfunction chased KP away.
LOL....x....x....x1000000000000000

Quote from: Merciless on December 06, 2019, 04:04:37 PM
God damn I was close... said it would happen when they were 15 games under .500

I will be forever haunted missing it by 1 loss...

I said Xmas...and it did come three weeks early! I am extremely pleased at my lack of accuracy. God bless & Good riddance. May the used-car salesman never coach anything above the high school level again.

*** and except for the base-level empathy I extend to all humans, have not an iota of sympathy for that fraud — he made his bed last year, had to sleep in it this year.

Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 06, 2019, 05:27:18 PM
How silly that we passed on  so many better coaching candidates

criminal
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 06, 2019, 08:45:58 PM
Like Melo KP got a bit more cash and weakened his future team's draft prospects.  Did he not?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 06, 2019, 08:59:29 PM
no. situation in no way parallel. emphasis on no way. not even a hint of similarity.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Merciless on December 06, 2019, 10:04:52 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 06, 2019, 08:45:58 PM
Like Melo KP got a bit more cash and weakened his future team's draft prospects.  Did he not?

That team is pretty damn good already.. and who the f*** wouldn't want to play with Luca Brasi and KP going forward
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on December 07, 2019, 12:04:46 AM
Oops we did it again...We're not that innocent...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 07, 2019, 12:39:10 AM
Fitting that we do it on a day when Budenholzer's Bucks lay a 28-point asswhiping on the Clippers.


Rivers pulled all of his starters out of the game with the Bucks leading 101-67 with 9:25 remaining in the fourth quarter.

He wanted us. We said "Fiz." How long does Mills & Perry's pass last for?

** and on a day when the Warriors win over the Bulls puts us all by ourselves at the BOTTOM OF THE LEAGUE
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 07, 2019, 02:03:05 AM
I said when we hired Fizz that he seemed like a consummate bs-er.
Had a rep as a player's coach, but his main motivation technique was telling guys he would help them make a lot of money.  Which means little accountability.  Seemed he wanted to be liked by the players more than anything.

With that said, I liked his tank job last year.  Everybody but Frankie played better than expected.  It was just a talent-poor roster.  But everybody got a lot of run.  Mithc, Trier and Dot were nice surprises.  Vonleh and Mud had career years.  But I didn't like running Knox into the ground or sapping his confidence. 

This year a roster with more talent, but mismatched, too many new faces, few defenders, lotta guys not expected around long-term, vets and yute.

So really the onus is on the front office for crafting two poor rosters and not being willing to suck it up and tank two years straight.

With that said, Fizz never developed any team identity or stable rotation.  And this year's Defense was something of a league-wide joke.  In an era where guys you never heard of might shoot 15 3-pointers in a game, and every team hunts 3's, Fizz decided we need to guard inside and perimeter rotations on D were all mucked up.  That's on Coach (and personnel).

I also didn't like Fizz running RJB into the ground and trying to sap his confidence. 

I don't have much knowledge of Perry, though he seems like a hack.  Signed Tim Jr to a ridiculous deal, brought in the PF crew, drafted well.
I think Mills is a weasel, he's shown loyalty to Dolan and been Dolan's spy, and seems one of those self-preserving types.  We really need Mills out.  But sure, they both need to go.
Pretty obvious this wasn't all Fizz's fault.

The Knix, as ever, starting over.
Key is do we (or Dolan) trust Perry-Mills to make the deals to move Morris and other vets in exchange for yute/picks?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 07, 2019, 02:25:12 AM
Some coaches around the league I like:
McMillan, Vogel, Gentry.

As for Knix, I'd bring in Bzdelik as an interim.
Guy preaches D.  Not looking for a head coach gig, but would take one if offered.
Edit: he's on Gentry's NOPe staff.

Who's out there now?
Thibodeaux
Joerger
Hollins
Kidd
Mark Jax
JVG/SVG

Skiles
Larry Drew
McHale
Hoiberg
A Very Johnson
Mo Cheeky

That's some pretty good talent.  And that's roughly my order.
A lot of no-nonsense guys.  I prefer coaches who preach D.
(but I never really know about coaches and fit with teams that well)

Kidd and Jax offer up some drama, but it's not like we don't have drama of the crappy sort now.  Be great to have SVG & JVG tandem coaching. 
At least all 4 of those can handle NY.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 07, 2019, 02:40:08 AM
I’m curious to see how Mike Miller does.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 07, 2019, 02:53:20 AM
probably best for the  tank as well . . .

I presume we'll see more fixed rotations, and the return of Elf could help stabilize things somewhat.  Be interesting to see how M&M handles the 3-headed PG.  I hope Franc continues to start (unless we need to showcase Elf/Smith for a trade).

Wonder if there will be any other directives to showcase someone.  Morris doesn't need it.  But Elf, Ellington, Taj, Randle, Smith could.

It would be foolish and counterproductive to lean heavily on vets hunting for a few W's.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Merciless on December 07, 2019, 07:56:08 AM
Dolan has taken his lumps over the years for being a meddling asshole but I've always appreciated his deep pockets and apparent desire to try and build a winner.... more recently it even appears he's been hands off too..but if Mills survives this fucking disaster then ALL of this falls on Dolan again and he deserves to be vilified by all.

Mills has proven to be nothing but a corporate suit whose only skill is survival. Dolan is somehow blindly loyal to a fault but he can't be this stupid anymore.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on December 07, 2019, 08:13:41 AM
Team is totally unwatchable. Three wasted #1 draft choices on non-shooters. Mills is among the worst NBA executives ever. Cheap non-competitive FA signings. Robinson, Morris, Trier only keepers.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 07, 2019, 09:16:26 AM
Dolan's deep pockets are part of the problem.
Knix throw money at everything, looking for shortcuts, instead of patiently building an organization and chemistry.   For both front office and roster.  It's always about bringing in a flashy marketable name.

Simply, hands-off Dolan isn't enough if you put idiots in charge.
(Phil wasn't an idiot, just a dinosaur looking to cash in on Dolanbucks)


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Merciless on December 07, 2019, 09:42:10 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 07, 2019, 09:16:26 AM
Dolan's deep pockets are part of the problem.
Knix throw money at everything, looking for shortcuts, instead of patiently building an organization and chemistry.   For both front office and roster.  It's always about bringing in a flashy marketable name.

Simply, hands-off Dolan isn't enough if you put idiots in charge.
(Phil wasn't an idiot, just a dinosaur looking to cash in on Dolanbucks)

Completely agree - but I'd rather have a deep pocketed owner than a cheap one (see NY Mets)...

But here's the real problem, Mills & Perry obviously sold Dolan on Plan B and when the shit went south they hung Fizzy out to dry to save their asses. A guy that they hand-picked! Not that the idiot didn't deserve it, but this team lacks talent at almost every position and that's on Mills/Perry.

We are rebuilding, we are young, we were expected to be terrible.

Mike Miller is now in a very unenviable position of having to save Mills & Perry with a shit roster. Working for these rats has to be unsettling knowing Mills will shove a dagger up your ass at any point. Pretty sure he would be hailed as a hero across the NBA if he said "thanks, but no thanks" and walked away.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on December 07, 2019, 10:23:36 AM
I don't know Mike Miller from Adam, but I do not envy his challenge taking over a poorly designed and young team mid-season and asked to get better results than Fizz did, He might ge the Knicks to play hard, but they're just not a good team, and he's probably destined to get canned in the next round of Dolan roulette and his search for a star to lead the Knicks back on  the road to glory. The names I hear are Mark Jackson, Jason Kidd, Van Gundy Patrick Ewing and others,

Here's another guy to chase, you probably can't get him, he's probably happy in the Philly burbs, and the hoops haven he has run for a while now, but maybe he might consider a change of scene, but I'd make jay Wright, an offer he couldn't refuse. Long-term, lots of money and lots of freedom. Wright, coach at Villanova, is smart, a very good coach, and without getting into the vagaries of NCAA hoops recruiting, found kids who could play 3-4 years at a very good academic school and sucessfully compete with the bigger and flashier, one and done college hoop factories, he's had to compete against. 

The young Knicks have to be rebuilt and need a guy who can be a teacher and a buillder with a vision, , they need a coach who can coach 19-21 YO kids, who is smart enough to grow as his team grows, but also has the credentials to succeed in the NBA. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 07, 2019, 10:51:39 AM
Mike Miller is now in a very unenviable position of having to save Mills & Perry with a shit roster. Working for these rats has to be unsettling knowing Mills will shove a dagger up your ass at any point. Pretty sure he would be hailed as a hero across the NBA if he said "thanks, but no thanks" and walked away.


Wont be too long til you are saying that..."well. Miller has Payton, Fiz didnt" - or "Mitch isnt fouling as much" - or, "well, Julius ls smarter" - or "well...Fiz gave Frank his confidence" (everything Frank does well, like with Mudiay, will be Fiz's doing).  Anything to say it was not coach Fiz's fault.

Then when (if, I should say - see Woodson, Chaney, Herb.....) Fiz gets another job and is 3 games over .500 you can whine how we should have cut him slack and been patient - unless of course we NAIL the next hire - then who cares?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 07, 2019, 10:55:05 AM
Quote from: Merciless on December 06, 2019, 10:04:52 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 06, 2019, 08:45:58 PM
Like Melo KP got a bit more cash and weakened his future team's draft prospects.  Did he not?

That team is pretty damn good already.. and who the f*** wouldn't want to play with Luca Brasi and KP going forward

I'm not seeing major successes for the Mavs.  Playoffs, sure.  Good for Cubes - but he will be frustrated.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 07, 2019, 11:09:54 AM
Another criminal coaching maneuver last night in San Antone,Kings up 3, last possession for Spurs - ands they allow the three pointer to be takenn.  Kings lose in OT

Worst luck - and greatest last second execution fgoes to T-Wolves and Thunder, respectively in their game.

1.1 on the clock - Towns shooting second free throw.  Up 1 point.

He tries to miss - and the ball rattles in.  2 point game. 

Enter QB Steven Adams with the deep bomb to Shroder, who gets away with a push off before hitting the game-tying runner at buzzer.  Thunder win by 12 in OT.  Oy, Minny.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on December 07, 2019, 11:15:04 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 07, 2019, 02:03:05 AM
I said when we hired Fizz that he seemed like a consummate bs-er.
Had a rep as a player's coach, but his main motivation technique was telling guys he would help them make a lot of money.  Which means little accountability.  Seemed he wanted to be liked by the players more than anything.

With that said, I liked his tank job last year.  Everybody but Frankie played better than expected.  It was just a talent-poor roster.  But everybody got a lot of run.  Mithc, Trier and Dot were nice surprises.  Vonleh and Mud had career years.  But I didn't like running Knox into the ground or sapping his confidence. 

This year a roster with more talent, but mismatched, too many new faces, few defenders, lotta guys not expected around long-term, vets and yute.

So really the onus is on the front office for crafting two poor rosters and not being willing to suck it up and tank two years straight.

With that said, Fizz never developed any team identity or stable rotation.  And this year's Defense was something of a league-wide joke.  In an era where guys you never heard of might shoot 15 3-pointers in a game, and every team hunts 3's, Fizz decided we need to guard inside and perimeter rotations on D were all mucked up.  That's on Coach (and personnel).

I also didn't like Fizz running RJB into the ground and trying to sap his confidence. 

I don't have much knowledge of Perry, though he seems like a hack.  Signed Tim Jr to a ridiculous deal, brought in the PF crew, drafted well.
I think Mills is a weasel, he's shown loyalty to Dolan and been Dolan's spy, and seems one of those self-preserving types.  We really need Mills out.  But sure, they both need to go.
Pretty obvious this wasn't all Fizz's fault.

The Knix, as ever, starting over.
Key is do we (or Dolan) trust Perry-Mills to make the deals to move Morris and other vets in exchange for yute/picks?

Bo, Perry didn't sign THJ. He came after that.

It was Mills that gave him that contract.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on December 07, 2019, 11:17:35 AM
Some good news, perhaps. Not sure why not now, but guess he just holds the fort and does little other than run day to day things until a new Prez and perhaps GM come in:

https://twitter.com/NYKFilmSchool/status/1203305387488923649
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 07, 2019, 11:19:25 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on December 06, 2019, 07:52:55 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 06, 2019, 03:05:41 PM



KP over played his hand.

LOL What are you possibly talking about? He played perfectly. He has everything he could possibly want. Future hall of fame coach. Great teammates. Top organization. Max deal. Career set. Talk about the good life.


He could've been THE BIGGEST STAR IN New York City instead he is 2nd fiddle to a teenager in Dallas.
His destiny is set.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 07, 2019, 11:30:06 AM
Quote from: Merciless on December 07, 2019, 09:42:10 AM
this team lacks talent at almost every position and that's on Mills/Perry.



I disagree that we don't have talent.  I think the issue is fit. 
Talent is on the GM 100%.  Fit is on the GM 50% and the coach 50%. 

At Center you have Taj Gibson and Mitch Robinson.  No talent lacking there.
At PF you have talent like Randle who was a high ranked free agent.
At SF you have talent in Morris and you have three recent Top-10 picks who can play there
At SG you have a 2nd year player who is coming off a very good rookie year and you drafted a Top 3 rookie based on talent.

At PG i will give you that there has been injuries but also, Frankie has been mostly healthy and if you had not played Mudiay so much last year maybe Frankie would've been better this year.

So at every position i see the coach has talent to work with.  Maybe not the best, granted, but he should do better than losing 80% of the TIME.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 07, 2019, 11:32:28 AM
Artest wants to coach the Knix ...

Quote
League sources told ESPN's Bobby Marks that the Knicks were determined to use their cap space to sign players who could contribute on the court rather than engage in any deal that would give them future draft assets.
Title: Hey Coach Miller
Post by: Kam on December 07, 2019, 11:35:56 AM
This is your one big chance to change things up.  One free pass so go for it.


Starters need to be:

Mitch
Morris
RJ
Dotson
Frank

Bench:

Taj
Randle
Knox
one of Payton/DSJ

End of the bench:
Trier
Ellington
one of Payton/DSJ
Brazdeikis
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Merciless on December 07, 2019, 12:46:18 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 07, 2019, 10:51:39 AM
Mike Miller is now in a very unenviable position of having to save Mills & Perry with a shit roster. Working for these rats has to be unsettling knowing Mills will shove a dagger up your ass at any point. Pretty sure he would be hailed as a hero across the NBA if he said "thanks, but no thanks" and walked away.


Wont be too long til you are saying that..."well. Miller has Payton, Fiz didnt" - or "Mitch isnt fouling as much" - or, "well, Julius ls smarter" - or "well...Fiz gave Frank his confidence" (everything Frank does well, like with Mudiay, will be Fiz's doing).  Anything to say it was not coach Fiz's fault.

Then when (if, I should say - see Woodson, Chaney, Herb.....) Fiz gets another job and is 3 games over .500 you can whine how we should have cut him slack and been patient - unless of course we NAIL the next hire - then who cares?

Not sure I have any idea what point you're trying to make here. I wasn't a fan of Fiz.. my point is Mills and Perry did not put together a good collection of talent. People can debate that but that's just my opinion. And to think that this team was going to be competitive is really ridiculous. Mills and Perry are scurrying like rats on a sinking ship right now. Anything to save their own lives. It looks ugly and cowardly.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on December 07, 2019, 03:06:27 PM
---Meet Mike Miller, Interim Coach of the New York Knicks---

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissheridan/2019/12/07/meet-mike-miller-interim-coach-of-the-new-york-knicks/#77401faa6d64

Seems like a good choice considering the lack of talent present.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on December 07, 2019, 03:32:55 PM
Quote from: Merciless on December 07, 2019, 09:42:10 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 07, 2019, 09:16:26 AM
Dolan's deep pockets are part of the problem.
Knix throw money at everything, looking for shortcuts, instead of patiently building an organization and chemistry.   For both front office and roster.  It's always about bringing in a flashy marketable name.

Simply, hands-off Dolan isn't enough if you put idiots in charge.
(Phil wasn't an idiot, just a dinosaur looking to cash in on Dolanbucks)

Completely agree - but I'd rather have a deep pocketed owner than a cheap one (see NY Mets)...

But here's the real problem, Mills & Perry obviously sold Dolan on Plan B and when the shit went south they hung Fizzy out to dry to save their asses. A guy that they hand-picked! Not that the idiot didn't deserve it, but this team lacks talent at almost every position and that's on Mills/Perry.

We are rebuilding, we are young, we were expected to be terrible.

Mike Miller is now in a very unenviable position of having to save Mills & Perry with a shit roster. Working for these rats has to be unsettling knowing Mills will shove a dagger up your ass at any point. Pretty sure he would be hailed as a hero across the NBA if he said "thanks, but no thanks" and walked away.

Dolan isn't the problem and the FO certainly bears some responsibility for the roster, it was on Fiz to make it work.

Nor is there a lack of talent.  There was a lack of coaching vision that compounded the lack of game time chemistry.

As Kam points out there's a talented set of team pieces on the roster.

Where Perry might assume some blame, its in advocating for Randall, DSJ, and say Payton to succeed when better options exist.

Miller will right this ship.  Allen played very well for him in G-League and Miller seems to have an affinity for younger players.

What's needed is some ruthless pruning of the roster and, yet again, taking some risks in acquiring less than perfect players.





Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on December 07, 2019, 03:38:13 PM
Mills seems to be a yes man teflon brown nose with no work ethic. Does not like chasing FAs, does not like research, can always blame things on coach or GM.
Title: Re: Hey Coach Miller
Post by: lesterluv on December 07, 2019, 03:49:49 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 07, 2019, 11:35:56 AM
This is your one big chance to change things up.  One free pass so go for it.


Starters need to be:

Mitch
Morris
RJ
Dotson
Frank


Plus, it's the one thing me n' Kam agree on 100%. Go for it Mikey!

#Go4ItMikey
Title: Re: Hey Coach Miller
Post by: bodiddley on December 07, 2019, 04:31:30 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on December 07, 2019, 03:49:49 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 07, 2019, 11:35:56 AM
Starters need to be:

Mitch
Morris
RJ
Dotson
Frank
Plus, it's the one thing me n' Kam agree on 100%. Go for it Mikey!

I like that as a starting lineup.
Even though I'm not sure it's better than the 2nd unit.
And you're kidding yourself Kam & FWK if you think that lineup is average or better.  Against most teams, we'd be outplayed at 4 positions and the other team would have the best player on the court.

Also, it's 4 yute with limited experience surrounded by a tough vet who iso's.  At least a bunch of defenders.  Questionable shooting though.
I also want Knox to get 20+ mins.
Taj, Randle and Smith together make sense to me.

Is Morris are only legit starter?

Oh yeah ... Knicks’ president Steve Mills reportedly on hot seat, too (https://sports.yahoo.com/knicks-president-steve-mills-reportedly-180027500.html)
Title: Re: Hey Coach Miller
Post by: FWK00 on December 07, 2019, 04:39:28 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 07, 2019, 04:31:30 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on December 07, 2019, 03:49:49 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 07, 2019, 11:35:56 AM
Starters need to be:

Mitch
Morris
RJ
Dotson
Frank
Plus, it's the one thing me n' Kam agree on 100%. Go for it Mikey!

I like that as a starting lineup.
Even though I'm not sure it's better than the 2nd unit.
And you're kidding yourself Kam & FWK if you think that lineup is average or better.  Against most teams, we'd be outplayed at 4 positions and the other team would have the best player on the court.

Also, it's 4 yute with limited experience surrounded by a tough vet who iso's.  At least a bunch of defenders.  Questionable shooting though.
I also want Knox to get 20+ mins.
Taj, Randle and Smith together make sense to me.

Is Morris are only legit starter?

Oh yeah ... Knicks’ president Steve Mills reportedly on hot seat, too (https://sports.yahoo.com/knicks-president-steve-mills-reportedly-180027500.html)

Randle, Smith and Knox should be trade bait.

I never claimed the lineup was average or better.  I do think there are lineups that can win games with just the personnel we have.  However, after seeing and smelling how badly some of these guys are, its time to cut bait.

Frankie and RJ get better by the day as does Dotson. Payton first off the bench then Allen. Trier after Dotson and RJ.

Morris needs to be the starting SF with Iggy backing him. Trade Knox.

Randle just needs to go.  Gibson/Portis at PF.

Mitchell then Wooten at C.

They will lose some and win some.  But they will play with heart.
Title: Re: Hey Coach Miller
Post by: Kam on December 07, 2019, 05:56:59 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 07, 2019, 04:31:30 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on December 07, 2019, 03:49:49 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 07, 2019, 11:35:56 AM
Starters need to be:

Mitch
Morris
RJ
Dotson
Frank
Plus, it's the one thing me n' Kam agree on 100%. Go for it Mikey!

I like that as a starting lineup.
Even though I'm not sure it's better than the 2nd unit.
And you're kidding yourself Kam & FWK if you think that lineup is average or better.  Against most teams, we'd be outplayed at 4 positions and the other team would have the best player on the court.


Bo - average or better?  Why should that be the standard for if a change is worthwhile when the current unit is worst in the league?

It sets the orgs priorities in order.  Youth development (not just lip service to).  You play all your recent picks.  You definitely give Knox his 20 minutes to do his rim running without Randle clogging up the paint. You see if you want to extend Frank's rookie deal.  You see if Randle can find himself as a 6th man Deluxe.

If you're Mike Miller why not make your mark on this team.

If you keep things the same then nothing will change.

Miller is basically a .500 coach in G league.
Title: Re: Hey Coach Miller
Post by: FWK00 on December 07, 2019, 06:09:37 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 07, 2019, 05:56:59 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 07, 2019, 04:31:30 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on December 07, 2019, 03:49:49 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 07, 2019, 11:35:56 AM
Starters need to be:

Mitch
Morris
RJ
Dotson
Frank
Plus, it's the one thing me n' Kam agree on 100%. Go for it Mikey!

I like that as a starting lineup.
Even though I'm not sure it's better than the 2nd unit.
And you're kidding yourself Kam & FWK if you think that lineup is average or better.  Against most teams, we'd be outplayed at 4 positions and the other team would have the best player on the court.


Bo - average or better?  Why should that be the standard for if a change is worthwhile when the current unit is worst in the league?

It sets the orgs priorities in order.  Youth development (not just lip service to).  You play all your recent picks.  You definitely give Knox his 20 minutes to do his rim running without Randle clogging up the paint. You see if you want to extend Frank's rookie deal.  You see if Randle can find himself as a 6th man Deluxe.

If you're Mike Miller why not make your mark on this team.

If you keep things the same then nothing will change.

Miller is basically a .500 coach in G league.

.500

Sigh!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 07, 2019, 07:50:30 PM
Wow.
Mills and Perry are right.
Talented team we have
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 07, 2019, 08:38:15 PM
I think its a nod to the former coach that the lineup didnt change. 

In time, we will see.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 07, 2019, 08:42:31 PM
Randle, Smith and Knox should be trade bait.

Used to say with the Mets, "if you trade deGrom then you will be trying to SIGN a deGrom"

Knicks will be looking for a 20 point workhorse should Randle leave.  He seems to be a good mate.  KEEP.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 07, 2019, 08:52:05 PM
Noticeable in first half stats - Gibson never gets back in - 6 minutes - +2

Payton a +4, 5 assists 0 turnovers

Keep an eye on point guard slot and the question, "do we really need to play 3 guys?".
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Merciless on December 07, 2019, 08:54:38 PM
Talent to win or compete every night? I just don't see it. Give me some of that crack you guys are smoking.

Stats don't lie either. Neither does the record.

Last in FG%, Points Scored and Assists.

This team is not good.

Shame on Mills & Perry.

https://sports.yahoo.com/report-raptors-ujiri-would-be-intrigued-by-challenge-of-fixing-knicks-164803538.html (https://sports.yahoo.com/report-raptors-ujiri-would-be-intrigued-by-challenge-of-fixing-knicks-164803538.html)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 07, 2019, 09:08:44 PM
Smith showing glimmers

Knicks with just 9 turnovers
Title: Elf
Post by: Kam on December 07, 2019, 09:38:09 PM
Payton making a case for the starting job.
Title: 104-103
Post by: chipstern on December 07, 2019, 09:51:21 PM
Sigh

PS: Elfrid Payton
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Merciless on December 07, 2019, 09:53:06 PM
Quote from: Merciless on December 07, 2019, 08:54:38 PM
Talent to win or compete every night? I just don't see it. Give me some of that crack you guys are smoking.

Stats don't lie either. Neither does the record.

Last in FG%, Points Scored and Assists.

This team is not good.

Shame on Mills & Perry.

https://sports.yahoo.com/report-raptors-ujiri-would-be-intrigued-by-challenge-of-fixing-knicks-164803538.html (https://sports.yahoo.com/report-raptors-ujiri-would-be-intrigued-by-challenge-of-fixing-knicks-164803538.html)

Stupid me I forgot to add LAST IN FT% TOO
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 07, 2019, 09:53:17 PM
Nothing to say.  Good effort.  Anyone taking a cheap shot at Julius can go fuck themselves.

Real nice sub adjustments by Miller.  You either have a proper feel for things or you don't.

In the need to know category - did Keith Smart get fired for defending Fizdale?  For being pissed about not getting Miller's spot?  Seems random otherwise.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Merciless on December 07, 2019, 09:59:41 PM
Love this fucking article and everything it has to say...cowards as i called them earlier

https://nypost.com/2019/12/07/steve-mills-scott-perry-hide-in-growing-knicks-atrocity/ (https://nypost.com/2019/12/07/steve-mills-scott-perry-hide-in-growing-knicks-atrocity/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 07, 2019, 10:04:01 PM
Randle was 6 for 18, It wasn't just about the last free throw.  Randle and Smith are killing us.  Fitting as that's what we got for KP.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 07, 2019, 10:07:51 PM
Quote from: Merciless on December 07, 2019, 09:59:41 PM
Love this fucking article and everything it has to say...cowards as i called them earlier

https://nypost.com/2019/12/07/steve-mills-scott-perry-hide-in-growing-knicks-atrocity/ (https://nypost.com/2019/12/07/steve-mills-scott-perry-hide-in-growing-knicks-atrocity/)

I understand the "Palace intrigue" and i want Mills gone (and perhaps Perry too) but they can't fire themselves.   They played the card they had to play, but it was theirs to play.  The move almost paid immediate dividends. Let's give it time. We gave the last guy 100 games. 
Title: Let's hear some
Post by: Kam on December 07, 2019, 10:13:38 PM
Julius Randle trades...
Title: Sacramento
Post by: Kam on December 07, 2019, 10:15:38 PM
DSJ and Randle for Harrison Barnes who is shooting 48.5 39.4 83.3 the last 10 games.

https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/6578/harrison-barnes (https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/6578/harrison-barnes)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 07, 2019, 10:18:24 PM
Of amusing interest

https://sports.yahoo.com/report-becky-hammon-interest-knicks-head-coach-job-211309818.html

And a seven man/woman list

https://sports.yahoo.com/seven-names-popping-next-coach-000017418.html

Darvin Ham?  Really, bro?



Title: Re: Let's hear some
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 07, 2019, 10:18:58 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 07, 2019, 10:13:38 PM
Julius Randle trades...

No
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Merciless on December 07, 2019, 10:22:30 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 07, 2019, 10:07:51 PM
Quote from: Merciless on December 07, 2019, 09:59:41 PM
Love this fucking article and everything it has to say...cowards as i called them earlier

https://nypost.com/2019/12/07/steve-mills-scott-perry-hide-in-growing-knicks-atrocity/ (https://nypost.com/2019/12/07/steve-mills-scott-perry-hide-in-growing-knicks-atrocity/)

I understand the "Palace intrigue" and i want Mills gone (and perhaps Perry too) but they can't fire themselves.   They played the card they had to play, but it was theirs to play.  The move almost paid immediate dividends. Let's give it time. We gave the last guy 100 games.

Hey I hope Miller succeeds....i love a feel good story and hope someday in the future he's the star of an ESPN 30 for 30. Problem is these motherfuckers left him alone to handle the press during a time when the organization needs to show leadership.

Let me say this again....They left a G league coach with limited NBA experience deal with a huge press conference full of hungry reporters looking for answers on the direction of the team, etc...fucking gutless sacks of shit.
Title: Re: Let's hear some
Post by: chipstern on December 07, 2019, 10:39:57 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 07, 2019, 10:18:58 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 07, 2019, 10:13:38 PM

Julius Randle trades...


No


Thank you. 
Title: Re: Let's hear some
Post by: carlos123 on December 08, 2019, 01:03:02 AM
Quote from: chipstern on December 07, 2019, 10:39:57 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 07, 2019, 10:18:58 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 07, 2019, 10:13:38 PM

Julius Randle trades...


No


Thank you.

Why not?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on December 08, 2019, 01:10:35 AM
Quote from: Merciless on December 07, 2019, 10:22:30 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 07, 2019, 10:07:51 PM
Quote from: Merciless on December 07, 2019, 09:59:41 PM
Love this fucking article and everything it has to say...cowards as i called them earlier

https://nypost.com/2019/12/07/steve-mills-scott-perry-hide-in-growing-knicks-atrocity/ (https://nypost.com/2019/12/07/steve-mills-scott-perry-hide-in-growing-knicks-atrocity/)

I understand the "Palace intrigue" and i want Mills gone (and perhaps Perry too) but they can't fire themselves.   They played the card they had to play, but it was theirs to play.  The move almost paid immediate dividends. Let's give it time. We gave the last guy 100 games.

Hey I hope Miller succeeds....i love a feel good story and hope someday in the future he's the star of an ESPN 30 for 30. Problem is these motherfuckers left him alone to handle the press during a time when the organization needs to show leadership.

Let me say this again....They left a G league coach with limited NBA experience deal with a huge press conference full of hungry reporters looking for answers on the direction of the team, etc...fucking gutless sacks of shit.


Whoa there big fella.  Miller is good with the media, stop with the pity parade.

And the Knicks owe nothing to the MSM about Fizdale.  Nothing.  And that's because NO MATTER WHAT IS SAID, it will be spun in a negative light.

Not worth the bother.  Fiz is gone in the rear view mirror.  Can't figure out why?  We won't be needing that IQ test after all.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 08, 2019, 01:12:03 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 08, 2019, 01:03:02 AM
Quote from: chipstern on December 07, 2019, 10:39:57 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 07, 2019, 10:18:58 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 07, 2019, 10:13:38 PM

Julius Randle trades...


No


Thank you.

Why not?

Excellent question. Meanwhile, I didn't see the game so I have nothing to say except that judging by the starting lineup, the new coach probably has cojones the size of pigeon peas. Meanwhile, the Mavs point differential is now best in the west leading me to believe that shortly, since that stat rarely lies, those draft picks will be worth less than doo doo, much like the player who accompanied them.
Title: Re: Sacramento
Post by: FWK00 on December 08, 2019, 01:13:50 AM
Quote from: Kam on December 07, 2019, 10:15:38 PM
DSJ and Randle for Harrison Barnes who is shooting 48.5 39.4 83.3 the last 10 games.

https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/6578/harrison-barnes (https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/6578/harrison-barnes)

Works for me.  Better than that Kevin Love, et al crap somebody is slinging.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on December 08, 2019, 01:19:47 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on December 08, 2019, 01:12:03 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 08, 2019, 01:03:02 AM
Quote from: chipstern on December 07, 2019, 10:39:57 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 07, 2019, 10:18:58 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 07, 2019, 10:13:38 PM

Julius Randle trades...


No


Thank you.

Why not?

Excellent question. Meanwhile, I didn't see the game so I have nothing to say except that judging by the starting lineup, the new coach probably has cojones the size of pigeon peas. Meanwhile, the Mavs point differential is now best in the west leading me to believe that shortly, since that stat rarely lies, those draft picks will be worth less than doo doo, much like the player who accompanied them.

Hold on there.  Getting rid of Darko and whats his name was a trade made in heaven.

DSJ was obvious crap thrown in. Fool's (or should I say Fizz's) gold.

Dallas ain't going anywhere.  KP will go drama queen any day now - may even get moved at the deadline.

Draft picks are never doo doo.
Title: Re: Let's hear some
Post by: FWK00 on December 08, 2019, 01:21:49 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 07, 2019, 10:18:58 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 07, 2019, 10:13:38 PM
Julius Randle trades...

No

Please. Set him free.  He doesn't belong here.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 08, 2019, 01:22:30 AM
I was going to try Randle trades a few weeks back.
But which playoff level team wants an inside bull who doesn't defend the rim, isos a lot, ain't doing 3's this year?  You need to find a team with shooters and a rim protector who need inside scoring, and willing to take on 2 more years of a not cheap contract.  Randle something of an anachronism.  In a better structured environment, he'd likely pass better and lose the ball less.  But right now Low Value is another issue with him.

I'd expect any team the Knix call offering Randle the other team would counter with What about Morris.  Morris like the anti-Randle, a guy who is playing well, would fit nicely on almost any team, with no longterm cap hit.

And when the Knix call, wouldn't teams know that our front office is somewhat desperate, trying to retain their jobs by making trades since nothing else worked?  Aren't we looking to make deals from a position of (organizational) weakness?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on December 08, 2019, 01:23:44 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 07, 2019, 09:53:17 PM
Nothing to say.  Good effort.  Anyone taking a cheap shot at Julius can go fuck themselves.

Real nice sub adjustments by Miller.  You either have a proper feel for things or you don't.

In the need to know category - did Keith Smart get fired for defending Fizdale?  For being pissed about not getting Miller's spot?  Seems random otherwise.

Toward the end of the game Randall was out there trying to get a technical and Payton had to rope him in.  The man is dumber than a bag of nails.  Move him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 08, 2019, 01:27:02 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 07, 2019, 09:08:44 PM
Smith showing glimmers

Looks like he glimmered into a 1 Pt 0-fer shooting night with 2 Turnovers.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on December 08, 2019, 01:50:20 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 08, 2019, 01:22:30 AM
I was going to try Randle trades a few weeks back.
But which playoff level team wants an inside bull who doesn't defend the rim, isos a lot, ain't doing 3's this year?  You need to find a team with shooters and a rim protector who need inside scoring, and willing to take on 2 more years of a not cheap contract.  Randle something of an anachronism.  In a better structured environment, he'd likely pass better and lose the ball less.  But right now Low Value is another issue with him.

I'd expect any team the Knix call offering Randle the other team would counter with What about Morris.  Morris like the anti-Randle, a guy who is playing well, would fit nicely on almost any team, with no longterm cap hit.

And when the Knix call, wouldn't teams know that our front office is somewhat desperate, trying to retain their jobs by making trades since nothing else worked?  Aren't we looking to make deals from a position of (organizational) weakness?

You have to set a context for a Randall trade.

With Miller, the FO still believes in the rebuild.  We don't know for how long but with Miller it stands a chance.

That chance is dependent on wins - virtually nothing else will matter.There's nobody in Free Agency worth holding our breath about in the near future.  So cap space means little without depending on a lot of luck.  The Knicks aren't leprechauns.

So, a good hard pruning with an eye on useful talent despite unpalatable contracts will be the order of the day.

Randall is such a misfit here that taking a hit is inevitable.  He does have value to certain contending teams or teams wanting to move their own versions of Randall.

SA trying to move Aldridge.  Randall, DSJ, and Knox work.  He would at least give MR a mentor.

 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on December 08, 2019, 01:52:38 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 08, 2019, 01:27:02 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 07, 2019, 09:08:44 PM
Smith showing glimmers

Looks like he glimmered into a 1 Pt 0-fer shooting night with 2 Turnovers.

DSJ actually had a couple of heads up, hustle plays.  Hopefully that makes him tradeable.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 08, 2019, 02:20:54 AM
Quote from: FWK00 on December 08, 2019, 01:50:20 AM
There's nobody in Free Agency worth holding our breath about in the near future.  So cap space means little without depending on a lot of luck. 

So, a good hard pruning with an eye on useful talent despite unpalatable contracts will be the order of the day.

Randall is such a misfit here that taking a hit is inevitable.  He does have value to certain contending teams or teams wanting to move their own versions of Randall.

SA trying to move Aldridge.  Randall, DSJ, and Knox work.  He would at least give MR a mentor.

Doesn't SA want to move LMA because he's aging, doesn't protect the rim and is Mr. Mid-range on a team without outside shooters?
So they would trade him for Randle, a guy with a similarly flawed profile?

Really Rudy Gay is doing just fine in a Randle role already.  So Randle would just downgrade from LMA and take Rudy's spot.  I'd take Rudy's contributions over Randle.

Can't believe Pop would want Jr. Smith.
Then again why would the Knix want LMA?
Maybe we could knickname him The Big Melo.
While LMA is a slow-footed defender, not sure how he mentors Mitch, unless he teaches him feathery 16 foot turnaround J's. (beyond unlikely).

You're right that SA needs a shake-up.
But DeJounte-Randle-Poetl would be horrible spacing.
But they need to acquire shooters.  A guy like KZ.  Or Kawhi.

You know where's a good fit for LMA ... in Portland ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 08, 2019, 02:26:37 AM
DSJ is neither tradeable or playable. Miller had zero practices. I’m not surprised he kept the starting unit and same general rotation. There was much less switching, and when switches happened, our guys hustled back to their original man. It wasn’t great consistently, but it made sense and can be improved. Our offensive spacing would be the next thing to work on. More changes to come.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 08, 2019, 02:32:51 AM
IND was on the 2nd game of a Road B2B at the tail end of a 5 game road trip.  And without Brogdon.  So the schedule helped the Knix a good deal.

I would have waited for the INDy loss and maybe the road trip as well before firing Fizz.  But it seems teams like to fire a coach just before long road trips.  The theory is that teams can bond more on the Road where they have little to do.  But I think the main purpose is the front office gets the team out of the city, minimizing media scrutiny and taking the heat off themselves.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 08, 2019, 02:57:59 AM
Quote from: FWK00 on December 08, 2019, 01:52:38 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 08, 2019, 01:27:02 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 07, 2019, 09:08:44 PM
Smith showing glimmers

Looks like he glimmered into a 1 Pt 0-fer shooting night with 2 Turnovers.

DSJ actually had a couple of heads up, hustle plays.  Hopefully that makes him tradeable.

1Q
Jr. Smith dies on a MyTurn screen, Holiday gets an open j.
Smith doesn't get back on D and Holiday dribbles 75' for a layup with Smith running next to him.
3:20 smith drives and thuds a layup off the backboard.

1Q looked pretty good for the Knix except for Smith.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 08, 2019, 03:58:13 AM
MyTurn blocked a helluva lot of Knick shots in cruch time.
Including Randle (again, again) with :01 left (but Holiday called for a foul).

MyTurn with a pair of blocks on 2 of the Knix last 3 possessions.  Don't think I've ever seen a guy block 4 shots in the last minute (1:10) like that -- okay the 4th block was negated by Holiday's foul.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jerrya on December 08, 2019, 09:35:12 AM
The team looked  much more together tonite.   They didn't fall apart when things got tough. Good 4th quarter effort. Considering Miller didn't have any time to prepare, nice start. 

  Miller has a good chance to get head coach if he gets this team to hustle on a nightly basis. The effort on both ends will win games. .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on December 08, 2019, 09:49:29 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 08, 2019, 02:20:54 AM
Quote from: FWK00 on December 08, 2019, 01:50:20 AM
There's nobody in Free Agency worth holding our breath about in the near future.  So cap space means little without depending on a lot of luck. 

So, a good hard pruning with an eye on useful talent despite unpalatable contracts will be the order of the day.

Randall is such a misfit here that taking a hit is inevitable.  He does have value to certain contending teams or teams wanting to move their own versions of Randall.

SA trying to move Aldridge.  Randall, DSJ, and Knox work.  He would at least give MR a mentor.

Doesn't SA want to move LMA because he's aging, doesn't protect the rim and is Mr. Mid-range on a team without outside shooters?
So they would trade him for Randle, a guy with a similarly flawed profile?

Really Rudy Gay is doing just fine in a Randle role already.  So Randle would just downgrade from LMA and take Rudy's spot.  I'd take Rudy's contributions over Randle.

Can't believe Pop would want Jr. Smith.
Then again why would the Knix want LMA?
Maybe we could knickname him The Big Melo.
While LMA is a slow-footed defender, not sure how he mentors Mitch, unless he teaches him feathery 16 foot turnaround J's. (beyond unlikely).

You're right that SA needs a shake-up.
But DeJounte-Randle-Poetl would be horrible spacing.
But they need to acquire shooters.  A guy like KZ.  Or Kawhi.

You know where's a good fit for LMA ... in Portland ...

Oh, I'd just be happy with  some BBIQ coming this way.  SA has a number of kids, one of whom could be sent our way as well - mostly unknowns.

For SA, Knox who still has potential would be the lure.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 08, 2019, 10:16:40 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 08, 2019, 01:22:30 AM
2 more years of a not cheap contract.  Randle something of an anachronism. 

I thought just next season is guaranteed.  Team option on year3. No?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 08, 2019, 10:38:24 AM
Lots of teams have good shooting backcourts now and weak frontcourts.  Randle would be welcome in Phoenix, Atlanta, Golden State, Washington, Sacramento, etc...and those are just the bad teams.  There will be playoff teams who have injuries.


The Bulls wanted Randle in the offseason according to Woj.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 08, 2019, 12:26:54 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 08, 2019, 10:38:24 AM
Lots of teams have good shooting backcourts now and weak frontcourts.  Randle would be welcome in Phoenix, Atlanta, Golden State, Washington, Sacramento, etc...and those are just the bad teams.  There will be playoff teams who have injuries.

GS has Paschall and Omari Spellman who are both bull type PF's.
Pasch is just 6'6" which probably explains him falling to the 2nd round.
Putting up numbers similar to Randle in his rook season  (https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Julius+Randle&player_id1_select=Julius+Randle&player_id1=randlju01&y1=2020&player_id2_hint=Eric+Paschall&player_id2_select=Eric+Paschall&player_id2=pascher01&y2=2020)(fewer assists and boards but much better shooting %'s)
Cardinal Spellman is a 6'8" bruiser who has shot 35% on 3's in his two years.  So they don't need/want Randle.
GS also has Looney, WCS and Dray Green.


PHX has Ayton and Baynes as inside scorers.
Saric and FranktheTank as stretch 4's
They could use a Defensive PF.  ie not Randle.

PHX has Rich Holmes and Bagley.  I like both better than Randle.
Dedmon Walking and Giles Goatboy.

ATL needs a lot, but is pretty set at PG (Trae) and PF (Collins).

As for WASh, Rui is their PF of the future.  And they have Bertans.
They don't need another weak defending PF.  They don't need another PF with all the holes they have.  While Thomas Bryant and Mahinmi are bullish inside guys.

I don't think you put much thought into this . . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 08, 2019, 01:18:53 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 08, 2019, 10:38:24 AM
Lots of teams have good shooting backcourts now and weak frontcourts.  Randle would be welcome in Phoenix, Atlanta, Golden State, Washington, Sacramento, etc...and those are just the bad teams.  There will be playoff teams who have injuries.


The Bulls wanted Randle in the offseason according to Woj.

Good thought

A lot of youth in Chicago - and they want to win soon.  Good landing spot if we were to deal Randle.

Maybe Bo can put together a package for us on that
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 08, 2019, 01:20:25 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 08, 2019, 10:16:40 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 08, 2019, 01:22:30 AM
2 more years of a not cheap contract.  Randle something of an anachronism. 

I thought just next season is guaranteed.  Team option on year3. No?

Yes.  Year 3 can be bought out for 4 mil of the 19.

So a team that deals for Randle is on the hook for 22.9 mil past this year.  This year would at least even out, given the players sent the other way.

If it is the Bulls I'd think part of what is coming back would be signed past 2019-20
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 08, 2019, 01:40:52 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 08, 2019, 12:26:54 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 08, 2019, 10:38:24 AM
Lots of teams have good shooting backcourts now and weak frontcourts.  Randle would be welcome in Phoenix, Atlanta, Golden State, Washington, Sacramento, etc...and those are just the bad teams.  There will be playoff teams who have injuries.

GS has Paschall and Omari Spellman who are both bull type PF's.
Pasch is just 6'6" which probably explains him falling to the 2nd round.
Putting up numbers similar to Randle in his rook season  (https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Julius+Randle&player_id1_select=Julius+Randle&player_id1=randlju01&y1=2020&player_id2_hint=Eric+Paschall&player_id2_select=Eric+Paschall&player_id2=pascher01&y2=2020)(fewer assists and boards but much better shooting %'s)
Cardinal Spellman is a 6'8" bruiser who has shot 35% on 3's in his two years.  So they don't need/want Randle.
GS also has Looney, WCS and Dray Green.


PHX has Ayton and Baynes as inside scorers.
Saric and FranktheTank as stretch 4's
They could use a Defensive PF.  ie not Randle.

PHX has Rich Holmes and Bagley.  I like both better than Randle.
Dedmon Walking and Giles Goatboy.

ATL needs a lot, but is pretty set at PG (Trae) and PF (Collins).

As for WASh, Rui is their PF of the future.  And they have Bertans.
They don't need another weak defending PF.  They don't need another PF with all the holes they have.  While Thomas Bryant and Mahinmi are bullish inside guys.

I don't think you put much thought into this . . .

Spellman is a fringe NBA player.   Paschall is a tweener.   Otherwise you're touting rookies and 2nd year guys.  Baynes and Bertans over Randle? Bryant and Mahinmi? Come on.

How about the Bulls send us Thad Young and change for Randle.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 08, 2019, 02:35:45 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 08, 2019, 01:40:52 PM
Spellman is a fringe NBA player.   Paschall is a tweener.   Otherwise you're touting rookies and 2nd year guys.  Baynes and Bertans over Randle? Bryant and Mahinmi? Come on.

How about the Bulls send us Thad Young and change for Randle.

Baynes is a backup C.  Bertans a backup PF.
Presumably a team brings in Randle and his $15M to start, not come off the bench.

I'm touting rooks and 2nd year guys because they are good and their teams are not, so they have time to develop these guys.  Why bring in some semi-expensive flawed guy about to shuffled on to his 4th team in 6th year?  One stop away from the journeyman label ...

Randle is a PF. He has no other position.
If your starting C is an inside guy than Randle mucks up spacing.
If you have a quality starting PF, you don't trade for Randle.

Simply:

GS:  PF: Dray/Paschall  C: Looney/WCS. 
4 solid Bigs.  They don't need/want Randle. 
Spellman merely 5th Big.  With Pasch and Spellman they already have two bruisers.  They could use a real C maybe.

PHX:  Ayton/Saric provides spacing.  Baynes and Tank another inside outside combo.  Randle doesn't work next to Ayton (or Baynes).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 08, 2019, 02:36:37 PM
Randle a tough guy to fit on teams in today's NBA. 
The major trends these days are everybody shoot's 3's to create spacing (and score 3 points) and having switchable defenders to guard all that spacing. 

So teams are looking for stretch 4's who can open the court, allowing driving lanes and letting an inside C thrive.  Or alternatively they want their inside Bigs to rim protect. 

Randle doesn't defend, doesn't shoot 3's, and isn't a switchable fellow.  Being a boarding inside-scoring PF is anachronistic if that's all you do.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 08, 2019, 03:01:51 PM
CHitown?

Looks like it'd have to be Thad -- the wrong side of 30 and no outside shot.
He can guard PnR's and his 58% FT will fit right in.

Or if Bulls want to ditch OP III's big money.

Both seem like blah moves to me.

What the hell happened to Markk's shot?
Did he have a shoulder injury or something.
He's started December well.  But his shooting #'s are low this year.
Title: Thadeus Young
Post by: chipstern on December 08, 2019, 03:04:01 PM
Born: June 21, 1988 (age 31 years), New Orleans, LA

Height: 6′ 8″

Current team: Chicago Bulls (#21 / Small forward, Power forward)

And this advances our culture moving forward how, exactly? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 08, 2019, 03:20:25 PM
Okay:

Randle & Knox & Portis = Markkanen & Otto Porter

Portis just in there as an ending deal.
Allowing Bulls to get out from under Op3'S $28M a year early.

Bulls get scoring.
Knix get shooting.

CHI would have to be worried about Markk's shooting or OP3's health.
And not concerned about poor D.

interesting trade.  I'd like to get Markk.
Title: Re: Thadeus Young
Post by: Kam on December 08, 2019, 03:38:03 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 08, 2019, 03:04:01 PM
Born: June 21, 1988 (age 31 years), New Orleans, LA

Height: 6′ 8″

Current team: Chicago Bulls (#21 / Small forward, Power forward)

And this advances our culture moving forward how, exactly?

Moving Randle is addition by subtraction. Who we get back is only somewhat relevant.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 08, 2019, 04:57:00 PM
Let's be fair and see how he responds to coaching. He apparently hadn't had any thus far this season.
Title: Re: Thadeus Young
Post by: FWK00 on December 08, 2019, 05:29:38 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 08, 2019, 03:38:03 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 08, 2019, 03:04:01 PM
Born: June 21, 1988 (age 31 years), New Orleans, LA

Height: 6′ 8″

Current team: Chicago Bulls (#21 / Small forward, Power forward)

And this advances our culture moving forward how, exactly?


Moving Randle is addition by subtraction. Who we get back is only somewhat relevant.





I more or less agree with this.  Its not that Randle is a bad player per se, its that he creates a roster bottleneck - the coach has to do something with him.  That's more work than managing the other four.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on December 08, 2019, 05:33:00 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on December 08, 2019, 04:57:00 PM
Let's be fair and see how he responds to coaching. He apparently hadn't had any thus far this season.

He's got four games to learn the game of basketball.  I don't think he's a fast learner.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 08, 2019, 06:31:51 PM
If someone comes to us with a knockdown offer on the 15th, we should listen and pull the trigger on a really good deal. Since nobody has maintained or improved their value besides Morris, it would probably be an offer for him. Otherwise we should wait and see if Miller can install a reasonable game plan and find out how players look in a less chaotic setting.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on December 08, 2019, 06:42:39 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 08, 2019, 06:31:51 PM
If someone comes to us with a knockdown offer on the 15th, we should listen and pull the trigger on a really good deal. Since nobody has maintained or improved their value besides Morris, it would probably be an offer for him. Otherwise we should wait and see if Miller can install a reasonable game plan and find out how players look in a less chaotic setting.

Nobody's coming to us.  Ain't happening.
Title: Trader Vics [Be Careful What You Wish For]
Post by: chipstern on December 08, 2019, 06:54:16 PM
Otto Porter

$27,250,576   $28,489,239

Thaddeus Young   

$12,900,000   $13,545,000   $14,190,000

Lauri Markkanen   

$5,300,400   $6,731,508   $9,026,952

Lauri an intriguing stretch-foud seven footer, only 22, and I reckon some of the Trader Vics on this forum view him as, I don't know, Porzingis Light?  Offensively, okay...defensively?  Mmmmmm?  Still, why would the Bulls want to bail on him? 

When healthy the past two seasons, for 29-32 minutes, a 43%/36% 2 & 3-Pt shooter, 7.5 and 9.0 boards and a very good FT shooter 84 & 87%, getting to the line 166 & 195 times. 

This season he is nursing an oblique injury and in 29 minutes his FG% is 37.1/31.4, rebounding down some, assists up. 

Otto Porter?  Just turned 26. 

Currently nursing a bad bone bruise in his foot.  In 15 games for the Bulls last season, his FT% was 90.6% and a 3-Pt % of 48%.  Nice.

In 9 games/25 minutes this season, 41.4-40.0% and FT shooting down 90.6 to 75%. 

Another nice player. 

But seriously?  Two seasons at 27-28 million NICE? 

Because we are disappointed with Randle and Portis, and Knox in only his second season, is coming along too slowly for some, so, off he goes to trail the ghost of Trevor Ariza and Rod Strickland and all of those young Knicks we gave up on too damn soon. 

Thaddeus Young?

Currently shooting 40.0/33.3 with a resounding FT% of 58.6%. 

AND with Courtney Lee guaranteed money through 2022. 

"Moving Randle is addition by subtraction. Who we get back is only somewhat relevant."

[Chortle]

Well, hey, since you put it THAT WAY, who am I to argue with such sublime, forward-thinking logic.

Not to give, Julius a hall pass on 16.8/8.6/3.4 stat line, sullied as it is by 43.6/23.7 FG% and a grim 66.2 FT%.

STILL, if the idea is to BAIL on our contractual commitment, and find Julius a better fit somewhere out West, taking back long term contracts seems, in light of how consciously we leveraged cap space in the KP Deal, oh, I don't know...

SOMEWHAT FUCKING RELEVANT. 

Persevere. Trader Vics, persevere, but you might want to think things through a tad more. 

Or, as FACIL, so sensibly puts it:

If someone comes to us with a knockdown offer on the 15th, we should listen and pull the trigger on a really good deal. Since nobody has maintained or improved their value besides Morris, it would probably be an offer for him. Otherwise we should wait and see if Miller can install a reasonable game plan and find out how players look in a less chaotic setting.

Or as the learned FWK sums things up, NOT HAPPENING. 

To which I would add, let's see what Julius and Portis and Knox and RJ and company look like between now and the new year with a new coach and ELFRID PAYTON manning the rudder. 

At such times, I am comforted that Scott Perry, his decision making skills such as they are [cough], is in survival mode and in fear for his mortal soul, and thus, unlikely to follow through on any of these brilliantly crafted deals.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 08, 2019, 07:36:20 PM
Tuesday     December, 10    10:00 PM EST    at Trailblazers                                       
 Wedday    December, 11    10:30 PM EST    at Warriors                                       
 Friday    December, 13    10:00 PM EST    at Kings                                       
 Sunday    December, 15    8:00 PM EST    at Nuggets                                       
 Tuesday    December, 17    7:30 PM EST    vs Hawks                                       
 Friday    December, 20    8:00 PM EST    at Heat                                       
 Saturday    December, 21    7:30 PM EST    vs Bucks                                       
 Monday    December, 23    7:00 PM EST    vs Wizards                                       
 Thursday    December, 26    8:00 PM EST    at Nets                                       
 Saturday    December, 28    8:00 PM EST    at Wizards                                       
 Wedday    January, 1    7:30 PM EST    vs Trailblazers    

This eleven game stretch is a good sample to evaluate the roster under our interim coach.

Good, bad, or ugly, he’s fairly mainstream and runs things you see in good amounts from 20 or more teams. This lets us, the fans, as well as talent evaluators look at what’s happening and not have to wonder if it was the player’s fault or due to some incomprehensible scheme.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 08, 2019, 08:21:09 PM
Young plus Dunn for Randle.  Saves 5 mil for 20-21  Opens playing time for VERNON CAREY.  Maybe we get a #2 tossed in.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 08, 2019, 08:30:04 PM
THJ going off tonight
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 08, 2019, 08:30:29 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 08, 2019, 08:21:09 PM
Young plus Dunn for Randle.  Saves 5 mil for 20-21  Opens playing time for VERNON CAREY.  Maybe we get a #2 tossed in.

Good LORD
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 08, 2019, 08:54:18 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 08, 2019, 08:30:29 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 08, 2019, 08:21:09 PM
Young plus Dunn for Randle.  Saves 5 mil for 20-21  Opens playing time for VERNON CAREY.  Maybe we get a #2 tossed in.

Good LORD

Young and Dunn for Randle & Smith JR. Ups our team smarts, discipline, defense, and energy at both positions. Since it’s Chicago, I’d send them cash to sweeten if necessary.

http://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7253918 (http://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7253918)

Mitch, Young, and Morris is a very good defensive frontcourt. Taj and Bobby bring quality to the second unit.

I’m not sure where Dunn fits, but he pushes everyone the way they need to be pushed.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 08, 2019, 09:08:55 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 08, 2019, 08:30:29 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 08, 2019, 08:21:09 PM
Young plus Dunn for Randle.  Saves 5 mil for 20-21  Opens playing time for VERNON CAREY.  Maybe we get a #2 tossed in.

Good LORD

Heh.

Thats what I get for sitting in for Diddley
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 08, 2019, 09:56:51 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 08, 2019, 09:08:55 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 08, 2019, 08:30:29 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 08, 2019, 08:21:09 PM
Young plus Dunn for Randle.  Saves 5 mil for 20-21  Opens playing time for VERNON CAREY.  Maybe we get a #2 tossed in.

Good LORD

Heh.

Thats what I get for sitting in for Diddley

You have long championed Payton, so I have it in my power to forgive you. 
Title: Re: Trader Vics [Be Careful What You Wish For]
Post by: FWK00 on December 08, 2019, 10:56:37 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 08, 2019, 06:54:16 PM
Otto Porter

$27,250,576   $28,489,239

Thaddeus Young   

$12,900,000   $13,545,000   $14,190,000

Lauri Markkanen   

$5,300,400   $6,731,508   $9,026,952

Lauri an intriguing stretch-foud seven footer, only 22, and I reckon some of the Trader Vics on this forum view him as, I don't know, Porzingis Light?  Offensively, okay...defensively?  Mmmmmm?  Still, why would the Bulls want to bail on him? 

When healthy the past two seasons, for 29-32 minutes, a 43%/36% 2 & 3-Pt shooter, 7.5 and 9.0 boards and a very good FT shooter 84 & 87%, getting to the line 166 & 195 times. 

This season he is nursing an oblique injury and in 29 minutes his FG% is 37.1/31.4, rebounding down some, assists up. 

Otto Porter?  Just turned 26. 

Currently nursing a bad bone bruise in his foot.  In 15 games for the Bulls last season, his FT% was 90.6% and a 3-Pt % of 48%.  Nice.

In 9 games/25 minutes this season, 41.4-40.0% and FT shooting down 90.6 to 75%. 

Another nice player. 

But seriously?  Two seasons at 27-28 million NICE? 

Because we are disappointed with Randle and Portis, and Knox in only his second season, is coming along too slowly for some, so, off he goes to trail the ghost of Trevor Ariza and Rod Strickland and all of those young Knicks we gave up on too damn soon. 

Thaddeus Young?

Currently shooting 40.0/33.3 with a resounding FT% of 58.6%. 

AND with Courtney Lee guaranteed money through 2022. 

"Moving Randle is addition by subtraction. Who we get back is only somewhat relevant."

[Chortle]

Well, hey, since you put it THAT WAY, who am I to argue with such sublime, forward-thinking logic.

Not to give, Julius a hall pass on 16.8/8.6/3.4 stat line, sullied as it is by 43.6/23.7 FG% and a grim 66.2 FT%.

STILL, if the idea is to BAIL on our contractual commitment, and find Julius a better fit somewhere out West, taking back long term contracts seems, in light of how consciously we leveraged cap space in the KP Deal, oh, I don't know...

SOMEWHAT FUCKING RELEVANT. 

Persevere. Trader Vics, persevere, but you might want to think things through a tad more. 

Or, as FACIL, so sensibly puts it:

If someone comes to us with a knockdown offer on the 15th, we should listen and pull the trigger on a really good deal. Since nobody has maintained or improved their value besides Morris, it would probably be an offer for him. Otherwise we should wait and see if Miller can install a reasonable game plan and find out how players look in a less chaotic setting.

Or as the learned FWK sums things up, NOT HAPPENING. 

To which I would add, let's see what Julius and Portis and Knox and RJ and company look like between now and the new year with a new coach and ELFRID PAYTON manning the rudder. 

At such times, I am comforted that Scott Perry, his decision making skills such as they are [cough], is in survival mode and in fear for his mortal soul, and thus, unlikely to follow through on any of these brilliantly crafted deals.



I'm a fan that happens to believe this is a team that can turn a corner soon.

And I happen to think its a matter of recalibrating the personnel which the FO baked into the summer signing pie.

We don't have a definitive sample size of games to become Nostradamus but we've seen A LOT in that small sample size.

Randall has a limited BBIQ - he's not getting smarter with more playing time.

DSJ has all the physical tools but is a straw short of a full bale when it comes to actually playing the game with others.

If nothing else, these two have to be moved out of the picture.  They are wasting everybody's precious time.

Morris is a guy you sign a contract extension with.  He played under Stevens and learned.  You don't trade that.

I don't know Randall's market but I do know that the Free Agency/ Tank/Cap Space tropes are all dead.  We will still be a very young team with lots of lottery picks if we move on from these two.

I want Mills to succeed. Delaying the pruning of this roster will kill his chances of holding the job. When you got nothing you got nothing to lose by taking some bold steps.

Move these two.  Any useful assets coming back are a plus.
Title: Trades by Bo aka Bo Did it again ....
Post by: bodiddley on December 09, 2019, 03:44:27 AM
Nets keep winning with Kyrie out.
Whispers of Kyrie being difficult.
PerryMills need to save their @sses.

So simply:

Morris, Barrett, Portis, Elf, Jr. Smith, Taj, Ellington
traded for
Kyrie and KD
(maybe Claxton and/or Kurucs thrown in to balance bodies)

Knix get their star FA's and just pretend the Summer PF FA haul was just a subterfuge.  All designed to, uh, fire Fizz.  Yeah, that's it ...

Knix:
Kyrie  - Datsun - KD - Randle - Mitch
Frank - Trier - Knox - Claxton
+ high draft pick
(sure that's next year, but this year already be sunk)

Nets ditch their overpriced fragile unneeded huge-contract primadonnas.  Morris and RJB are the prizes as they'll fit right in.
Elf/Smith provide a backup PG.

Nets:
Dinwiddie - LaVert - Joe Harris  - Morris - Jarhead Allen
Elf Payton - RJayB - Taur Prince - Portis -  Taj/DeAndre

Nets could try to reroute a few guys such as Ellington, Smith, Taj, Portis. Though Portis is an ending deal, so good to hang on to.
Nets would need to waive Wil (suspended), Shump, Pinson.  Maybe give us a Kurucs or Musa but then NYK probably have to kick in Bullock/Trier/Franc level contract, which might be necessary anyway.

Okay, my simply was just levity.
It's completely insane. 
KI + KD make so much ($69M) Knix have to throw a ton of players in.

The fundamental idea isn't that crazy.
Knix = desperate
Nets = nervous
= Insane super-trade

Nets bail on injured stars as they play well/better without them.  Basically add in Morris, RJB and Elf to what they have working now.  Nest get out form under the huge commitments to Kyrie and Durant.  And with KI/KD off the books they can re-sign Morris (and Harris).

Just for the record, I think Kyrie and KD are a disaster waiting to happen.
And I'd hate to lose RJB.  But it sure would reorient the Knix future.  It's a path.  And we'd finally have a high-level (and high maintenance) PG.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 09, 2019, 08:32:29 AM
Randall has a limited BBIQ - he's not getting smarter with more playing time.


Wow - unfair take alert.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 09, 2019, 08:33:29 AM
Morris is a guy you sign a contract extension with.  He played under Stevens and learned.  You don't trade that.


But this one is excellent
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 09, 2019, 08:38:07 AM
I want Mills to succeed. Delaying the pruning of this roster will kill his chances of holding the job. When you got nothing you got nothing to lose by taking some bold steps.


Also well said -thoug bold steps arent what you take when you want to follow through with your initial plan.

I dont think they will tear this down.  I think they will take the pieces they drafted - keep what they like from the guys they signed - and see if a run is possible with Mike Miller.

I think even winning 30 games and falling short of the eight slot - in Mills/Perry's eyes - is a win.  And yeah, I know - for draft purposes -  its not so much.

ut if you think of the term "build", 17 to 30 falls in there.  17 to 17 is a)  not progress and b)  demoralizing to those coming back
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 09, 2019, 09:15:17 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 09, 2019, 08:32:29 AM
Randall has a limited BBIQ - he's not getting smarter with more playing time.

Wow - unfair take alert.

BBIQ is fair game.
You want unfair: I've wondered about Randle's overall intelligence as well.

Even when he was back in college some scouts were questioning his BBIQ, especially on D.  And his D is usually/still poor in most facets. 

I think Randle doesn't seem to be a quick thinker/reacter.  He's more likely to bowl someone over than pass off, or maneuver around.  On both ends he sees what's happening or at least reacts to it a beat late. 

It's entirely possible that Randle had one good year and has regressed to his usual state.  Contract year too, right?  Coincidence . . .

And while Morris has been mostly terrific, again it's Contract Year Morris we're witnessing.  Will he be as focused and conditioned going forward, especially if stuck on a losing Knick team? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 09, 2019, 10:02:06 AM
Randle would not have his assist numbers with a low BB IQ.  He wouldnt be able to see driving lanes as he so often properly does

You will likely cite

a)  turnovers

and

b)  poor shot selection

but as with all primary scorers - comes with the territory.

It's actually Fiz's ball share system that has KEPT Randle under the 20 PPG mark, in my opinion.  And - like a guy such as PAT EWING before him - Randle getting knocked for "poor shot" often has to do with shot clock running down, who can get one off type scenarios - moreso than forcing something when something else is there.

"Larry Bird he is not"

I am with you on this.

But Randle can play, can see things, knows when and where to attack.  And defensively - how to help and rotate

Physical limitations really shouldnt enter your assessment here (not a shot blocker, (doesnt jump shoot over guys effectively, etc).  Nor should the things he does well.  You are talking about IQ - and you're also a fucking IDIOT - and maybe even a racist for your last comment on his overall IQ number.  Sorry - being nice to you in this holiday season only goes so far

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 09, 2019, 10:04:51 AM
And while Morris has been mostly terrific, again it's Contract Year Morris we're witnessing.  Will he be as focused and conditioned going forward, especially if stuck on a losing Knick team?



Fail.

As if Marcus would be playing

a)  not as hard
b)  not as smart
c)  not as well

if he had signed for 2/3/4 years (here, in BOS or in SA).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 09, 2019, 10:29:05 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 09, 2019, 08:38:07 AM

I think even winning 30 games and falling short of the eight slot - in Mills/Perry's eyes - is a win.  And yeah, I know - for draft purposes -  its not so much.



Would be absolutely fine for draft purposes. Last year teams at 33-49 got the top two cherries.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 09, 2019, 10:43:10 AM
Some people are dumb.  Some athletes are dumb.  Some white athletes are dumb.  Some black athletes are dumb.  All truisms.
I wonder about Randle.
Caveat: for some it affects their ability on court, for others it doesn't.
It seemed to me that Derrick Rose has actual learning disabilities, but I don't think it affected his hoops.

I also recall Adonal Foyle looked positively impaired, but turns out he's quite the all-around scholar, poet, writer, businessman. 
So I could be wrong about Randle.  But my impression isn't based on his skin tone.  Perhaps not surprising that someone like kiid doesn't actually comprehend racism.

Physical limitations: Randle has short arms which affects his ability to block shots and shoot over folks.  Probably also costs a rebound or two a game.  ZBo for instance had the bulky bod but combined with long arms.

Otherwise, if you don't think that some/many hoopsters put more attention in off-season conditioning, and apply themselves with more focus and aggression in a contract year, than I think you're living in denial.  When there is $5M - $10M - $20M at stake (an extra guaranteed year), folks can get plenty motivated.  Once a guaranteed $60M contract is signed, some naturally ease up some, enjoy the off-season more, coast a bit.  Human nature.  Some folks are highly self-motivated.  For most it's a combination of self- and outside motivations, and money is a big incentive and validater.

My best guess is Morris wouldn't have been as prepared, conditioned, focused if this wasn't a contract year.  He had extra motivation and put in the off-season work.  It's hard to bust your tail a full season and dedicate yourself in the Summer as well.  And do that every year.  Folks get burned out.  Or lazy.  It's easier to slack off some.  Morris playing for his last long-term contract and last big payday had one last offseason to push himself.  And then focus for the season.  Congrats to him.

So can we do a sign and trade with Morris, so that a team would get him locked in for a few years, if they so wanted?  The SnT rules have changed and I don't think we can ... but maybe ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 09, 2019, 10:43:22 AM
True or false -

Given Knicks personnel, NY should have more than 4 wins right now.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 09, 2019, 11:19:20 AM
Cool - and rare - interview with HERB WILLIAMS on NBA Radio a while ago

They wanted his view of current Knicks issues - in particular the Fizdale treatment.

Herb got through it wiohout torching the organization, summing things up with "it's tough in New York"

The hosts take had been that Knicks management never allows the coahing hires to simmer - never gives them enough time - citing especially Mike Woodson.

They also had a take that Knicks DESERVED to lose all of the last nine games, being that San Antonio wasnt really as bad as thye looked by record - and that the other 8 teams were playoff calibre.

So, OK -a  good coach should never beat a team that on paper has him out manned.  Got it.

The enormity of the defeats is what tilted the scale, they opined (that the losses were by such large figures vs DEN and MIL).  On this I can agree.  But this is more a defense of Mills, not a critique.

Losing by so much takes you from scrappy battling underdog status to LAUGHINGSTOCK pretty quickly.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 09, 2019, 11:27:07 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 09, 2019, 11:19:20 AM
Cool - and rare - interview with HERB WILLIAMS on NBA Radio a while ago
Herb got through it without torching the organization, summing things up with "it's tough in New York"

Uh, Herb was a long-time Dolan loyalist, the Mills of his day.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 09, 2019, 11:36:18 AM
Yes,  But one of the FIRED.  Likely why they asked him on

Still works for MSG of course (assistant with Liberty)

Just wanted to call attention to the sighting.  Herb was trying hard not to laugh the whole time, knowing the road they were trying to lead him down.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 09, 2019, 01:25:46 PM
Ibaka, Stanley Johnson, Patrick McCaw - and a #1 for Randle  and Morris
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 09, 2019, 01:35:55 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on December 09, 2019, 10:29:05 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 09, 2019, 08:38:07 AM

I think even winning 30 games and falling short of the eight slot - in Mills/Perry's eyes - is a win.  And yeah, I know - for draft purposes -  its not so much.



Would be absolutely fine for draft purposes. Last year teams at 33-49 got the top two cherries.

Outlier

Won't happen again
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 09, 2019, 01:53:45 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 09, 2019, 01:25:46 PM
Ibaka, Stanley Johnson, Patrick McCaw - and a #1 for Randle  and Morris

Interesting idea.
Though TOR wouldn't have a backup C (except green Boucher), and Ma Gasol is old. 

Keeping Ibaka and his expiring deal and their own #1 (in the 20's likely) gives them more flexibility than adding Randle's contract, while Morris could leave.  Kind of kills RHJ's minutes and he's been a big help on D.
Overall, I wouldn't do it if I were Torontoing.
I think TOR values continuity and chemistry.

As for the Knix, we'd get two reclamation guys who would compete in our already crowded wing rotation.
Trier - Dot - Ellington - McCaw
RJB - Knox - Stan John

So it all seems rather pointless just to get a late 1st rounder.

Creative though. 
But I'd try to get more for Morris.
But maybe a #22 pick and a Stan John is about what we can expect.
(And yes I still like StanJohn, but doubt being on a sloppy team without leadership and a crowded rotation won't help him.  Plus he's been injured all year).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 09, 2019, 02:12:45 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 09, 2019, 01:35:55 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on December 09, 2019, 10:29:05 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 09, 2019, 08:38:07 AM

I think even winning 30 games and falling short of the eight slot - in Mills/Perry's eyes - is a win.  And yeah, I know - for draft purposes -  its not so much.



Would be absolutely fine for draft purposes. Last year teams at 33-49 got the top two cherries.

Outlier

Won't happen again

Outlier of 1??? LOL..certainly might, law of independent trials, or it could be the 23-59, and 37-45, Silver got what he wanted, you can't game it or meaningfully aim for it, is there anything you don't understand about it?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 09, 2019, 02:23:15 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 09, 2019, 01:53:45 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 09, 2019, 01:25:46 PM
Ibaka, Stanley Johnson, Patrick McCaw - and a #1 for Randle  and Morris

Interesting idea.
Though TOR wouldn't have a backup C (except green Boucher), and Ma Gasol is old. 

Keeping Ibaka and his expiring deal and their own #1 (in the 20's likely) gives them more flexibility than adding Randle's contract, while Morris could leave.  Kind of kills RHJ's minutes and he's been a big help on D.
Overall, I wouldn't do it if I were Torontoing.
I think TOR values continuity and chemistry.

As for the Knix, we'd get two reclamation guys who would compete in our already crowded wing rotation.
Trier - Dot - Ellington - McCaw
RJB - Knox - Stan John

So it all seems rather pointless just to get a late 1st rounder.

Creative though. 
But I'd try to get more for Morris.
But maybe a #22 pick and a Stan John is about what we can expect.
(And yes I still like StanJohn, but doubt being on a sloppy team without leadership and a crowded rotation won't help him.  Plus he's been injured all year).

I see Trier, Dotson and Ellington as gone next year

Thin the herd and see some new faces

8 mil of Randle's 18 eaten up.  10 mil in space plus the first rounder plus the free looks at the duo is the payout.  Plus we could reroute Ibaka or even sign and trade him for 2020-21 pieces - unless you cant do that with a guy you just acquired.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 09, 2019, 02:33:43 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 09, 2019, 02:23:15 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 09, 2019, 01:53:45 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 09, 2019, 01:25:46 PM
Ibaka, Stanley Johnson, Patrick McCaw - and a #1 for Randle  and Morris

Interesting idea.
Though TOR wouldn't have a backup C (except green Boucher), and Ma Gasol is old. 

Keeping Ibaka and his expiring deal and their own #1 (in the 20's likely) gives them more flexibility than adding Randle's contract, while Morris could leave.  Kind of kills RHJ's minutes and he's been a big help on D.
Overall, I wouldn't do it if I were Torontoing.
I think TOR values continuity and chemistry.

As for the Knix, we'd get two reclamation guys who would compete in our already crowded wing rotation.
Trier - Dot - Ellington - McCaw
RJB - Knox - Stan John

So it all seems rather pointless just to get a late 1st rounder.

Creative though. 
But I'd try to get more for Morris.
But maybe a #22 pick and a Stan John is about what we can expect.
(And yes I still like StanJohn, but doubt being on a sloppy team without leadership and a crowded rotation won't help him.  Plus he's been injured all year).

I see Trier, Dotson and Ellington as gone next year

Thin the herd and see some new faces

8 mil of Randle's 18 eaten up.  10 mil in space plus the first rounder plus the free looks at the duo is the payout.  Plus we could reroute Ibaka or even sign and trade him for 2020-21 pieces - unless you cant do that with a guy you just acquired.

You have to wait 60 days (or is it 30 days) to trade someone you acquired if you're trading the player and other assets.  BUT if you are just trading the player that can be done right away. Remember when Sheed from Portland was an Atlanta Hawk for one game and was then moved to Detroit?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 09, 2019, 02:41:03 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on December 09, 2019, 02:12:45 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 09, 2019, 01:35:55 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on December 09, 2019, 10:29:05 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 09, 2019, 08:38:07 AM

I think even winning 30 games and falling short of the eight slot - in Mills/Perry's eyes - is a win.  And yeah, I know - for draft purposes -  its not so much.



Would be absolutely fine for draft purposes. Last year teams at 33-49 got the top two cherries.

Outlier

Won't happen again

Outlier of 1??? LOL..certainly might, law of independent trials, or it could be the 23-59, and 37-45, Silver got what he wanted, you can't game it or meaningfully aim for it, is there anything you don't understand about it?

dont talk to me
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 09, 2019, 02:45:13 PM
Can't handle the truth?


*** Ok, maybe it will be two 34-48 teams...or if we are really, really, really lucky, one will be a 19-63tm by Carlos team
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jerrya on December 09, 2019, 02:48:43 PM
 If Dolan convinced that Mills and/or Perry needs to go, why would he wait until the end of the season?
Maybe he wants to wait to see if  candidates become available, or can be made available, but I also worry about a desperate GM or president making boneheaded decisions, swinging for the fences to save their jobs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 09, 2019, 03:45:52 PM
What would you have said if the Knicks spent the minimum this season - if they did not add free agents up to their spending limit?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 09, 2019, 03:46:43 PM
And - admitting that Morris is a)  playing well and b)  a nice trade piece - why not give some credit for that?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on December 09, 2019, 03:56:49 PM
Yes the blind squirrels found a player.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 09, 2019, 05:22:38 PM
Quote from: luee on December 09, 2019, 03:56:49 PM
Yes the blind squirrels found a player.

He wasn't even a target until Reggie Bullock's injury.

Otherwise the 15mil we gave to Portis we would've given to Morris first.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 09, 2019, 05:24:56 PM
Quote from: Jerrya on December 09, 2019, 02:48:43 PM
I also worry about a desperate GM or president making boneheaded decisions, swinging for the fences to save their jobs.

I feel like PerryMIlls ALREADY swung for the fences to save their jobs with the KP trade and basically struck out/ hit into a fielders choice.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 09, 2019, 05:43:00 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 09, 2019, 05:22:38 PM
Quote from: luee on December 09, 2019, 03:56:49 PM
Yes the blind squirrels found a player.

He wasn't even a target until Reggie Bullock's injury.

Otherwise the 15mil we gave to Portis we would've given to Morris first.

Not certain we were never linked to Marcus before that
but doesnt matter,  In the end the decision was to add him or not - and I think we made the right choice.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 09, 2019, 05:45:06 PM
Do you take Hachimura and Clarke now for Barrett?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 09, 2019, 05:55:24 PM
Clarke is tempting, but Barrett is still better by a nose.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Merciless on December 09, 2019, 07:48:00 PM
Quote from: Jerrya on December 09, 2019, 02:48:43 PM
If Dolan convinced that Mills and/or Perry needs to go, why would he wait until the end of the season?
Maybe he wants to wait to see if  candidates become available, or can be made available, but I also worry about a desperate GM or president making boneheaded decisions, swinging for the fences to save their jobs.

I think Dolan has seen the light and is ready to reassign or move Mills altogether as many are starting to report. I think it will be after the season ends.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Merciless on December 09, 2019, 07:50:12 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 09, 2019, 10:43:22 AM
True or false -

Given Knicks personnel, NY should have more than 4 wins right now.

I would think maybe a few more, and I get that you are dumping on Fizzy, but given the very personnel you are calling out, they didn't have the horses to close those tight games so your question/point makes no sense.....we are worst in the NBA across the board in almost every category that counts.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 09, 2019, 08:01:35 PM
http://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/12/9/21002375/an-11-point-plan-to-save-new-york-knicks-david-fizdale-fired (http://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/12/9/21002375/an-11-point-plan-to-save-new-york-knicks-david-fizdale-fired)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 09, 2019, 08:16:10 PM
Well, Merc - we are 2-6 when playing well enough to finish in a 5-point game or fewer.  (0-1) under Miller)

28% winnable game rate for Fizdale
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 09, 2019, 08:22:31 PM
Nets are 6-4, Raptors 3-0, Philly 4-4, Boston 3-4
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 09, 2019, 09:01:46 PM
Fizz was hurt by not having Elfrid. It let us find out in a big way what a mess he was putting together. A healthy Elfrid would have done what he wanted to and it would have been better. If Miller can keep Elfrid healthy and productive while still using and developing Frank, we’ll probably bump our record.

Some things will remain ugly until Miller can put in his terms and actions with which to focus and tune to specific opponents. A great headache among those is defending opponents pick and roll.

I’m ready to resume enjoying a season that will read like tanking with progress.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 09, 2019, 09:17:03 PM
I have no problem at all with all 5 starters returning for 20-21

Bump Robinson for Carey or Payton for Anthony?  Sure.
Title: Sell The Team
Post by: carlos123 on December 09, 2019, 10:15:28 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 09, 2019, 08:01:35 PM
http://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/12/9/21002375/an-11-point-plan-to-save-new-york-knicks-david-fizdale-fired (http://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/12/9/21002375/an-11-point-plan-to-save-new-york-knicks-david-fizdale-fired)

Great link Fac. This is the best part:

https://youtu.be/Ap0DZFyF9d0 (https://youtu.be/Ap0DZFyF9d0)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on December 09, 2019, 11:59:57 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 09, 2019, 08:38:07 AM
I want Mills to succeed. Delaying the pruning of this roster will kill his chances of holding the job. When you got nothing you got nothing to lose by taking some bold steps.


Also well said -thoug bold steps arent what you take when you want to follow through with your initial plan.

I dont think they will tear this down.  I think they will take the pieces they drafted - keep what they like from the guys they signed - and see if a run is possible with Mike Miller.

I think even winning 30 games and falling short of the eight slot - in Mills/Perry's eyes - is a win.  And yeah, I know - for draft purposes -  its not so much.

ut if you think of the term "build", 17 to 30 falls in there.  17 to 17 is a)  not progress and b)  demoralizing to those coming back

Actually I was riffing on an interview with the CEO of Disney that was aired a few days ago.  One of the things his wife told him when he got the job was that the average term of most CEOs was very short.  With that in mind, Eisner decided to take chances, bought Pixar, and partnered with Steve Jobs, and so on.

I've never suggested they "tear it down".  To the contrary, pruning hard simply recognizes that the summer signing spree was an exercise in taking a shotgun blast approach to identifying keepers.  It remains a thoughtful and intriguing risk.

In essence, the FO wanted to identify a keeper or two from the pack (IMO, Payton and Morris) and make available the rest to interested contenders for a premium.  The premium may not get realized in all cases but the concept is sound.  The Darko trade enabled the Knicks to fortify their roster with sensible contracts and insulate themselves from crippling injury.  Again, the fact that the losses don't reflect that insight is unfortunate.

I hate to sound repetitious but two players who need to be promoted are Allen and Wooten.  The reason is the defensive intensity they add to the third string.  Ideally, Wooten takes Randall's spot and Allen supplants DSJ.  This is not a tear down.  It reinforces the rebuild with an emphasis on defense something Miller knows how to deploy.

Given the disappointment of this start, I've reconsidered the value of tanking.  It makes little sense at face value.  There's a lot more luck involved AND yet another year of not learning how to win.  Instead of imagining a bright and shiny lottery star let's imagine another year just like this NEXT YEAR.

No, I think we need to start winning.  There's no logical reason not to.  We will have draft picks coming out of our ears in the next few years - more youth is not the problem.  Winning is.

And Free Agency is an eternal magical wishing exercise.  Let's trade for a useful player or two who are pros. 

Hahn has floated a reconsideration of trading for CP3.  If its Randall, DSJ, and say Portis or Ellington for CP3 and a future pick or two - what's not to like?  In that case, Payton  becomes movable. Go out and identify a decent young forward or two.  Make it interesting.

Miller can't fix the same team that has just 4 wins.  He needs some help with a tweaking of the roster.  Mills and Perry are on the right path.  Mills can expose a much better team and record with some help.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 10, 2019, 08:45:19 AM
50/40/90 shootimng has always been a sign of extreme sniperism.

WHAT player is most complete - if we take 1 % point away - and ask who has attained the marks for career?

In other words - nobody has 50/40/90 career mark

Who has 49/39/89
48/38/88
47/37/87
46/36/86
45/35/85 - likely many

Who is the current KING of shooting - and who is in top 5?

(ROUND UP FOR PERCENTAGE - thus a .377 is .38)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 10, 2019, 10:44:25 AM
Steph Curry is damn close:  48% 44% 91%
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 10, 2019, 10:56:47 AM
Curry is top 5.

He's an 8 - that is 48+/38+/88+

There are three other 8s - and jus one player who is a 9 - 49+/39+/89+

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 10, 2019, 10:57:43 AM
First clue - 2 players are active.  3 retired.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 10, 2019, 11:14:25 AM
Coach Kerr
Reg Sensimiller

When Fizz got canned, Kerr lamented a bit and praised Fizz.
Then Kerr said if he took the Knick job some years back when Phil offered instead of GSW, Kerr said he probably would have been fired 3 years ago and considered not such a good coach.
His point was that you need player talent and organizational stability and support.  And that's not always easy to find (and by implication the Knickers ain't got it.

I also spotted on Hoopshype that the Knix have the worst record this century.  With a winning % barely above 40%.  Next worse was CHA.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 10, 2019, 11:24:42 AM
His point was that you need player talent and organizational stability and support.  And that's not always easy to find (and by implication the Knickers ain't got it.


We'll see
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 10, 2019, 11:28:29 AM
Coach Kerr            48   45   86     
Reg Sensimiller      47   40   89



CURRY       48   44   91
 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 10, 2019, 11:31:56 AM
Of the 4 remaining -

1 is a somewhat similar player to Curry

1 is similar to Kerr

The other 2 similar to neither
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on December 10, 2019, 11:34:00 AM
The knicks have enough horses to win some games and a lot of those close games we lost, should not have been close.  Everybody always forget when the shit gets canned.  Fizdall shitty switch defense on every play became the laughing stock of coaches, who knew run a pick and you'll have a guard on a big, easy 2 points, if they double swing the rock to the open man on the perimeter easy 3 points.  Every team did it.  It was so obvious except to Fizdale.  We made shitty shooters look like Ray Allen.  Mike's first fix should be stick to your damn man. stay on him like a wart.  That alone would fix 60% of whats wrong with the knicks.  The roster should be in the top 8 if a suitable offense was applied. Randall should shoot no more then 2 threes a game, I'd let crazy eyes take more threes then Randall.  Run pick and rolls, some screens to get Dotson open.  I mean I coached little league and had a better offense then these pro's.  WTF is so hard.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 10, 2019, 11:35:51 AM
Nash might be #1

Hornacek?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 10, 2019, 11:39:03 AM
Bird is #1

Dirk is the other
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 10, 2019, 11:42:48 AM
Mark Price another excellent FT shooter and high percent shooter.

The forerunner of Steve Nash.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 10, 2019, 11:49:46 AM
Well...

when asked a question on shooters - you should always include BIRD in your answer.

Larry Joe Bird       50   38   89     
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 10, 2019, 11:54:09 AM
Dirk is short           47   38   88

STEVE NASH is the champ          49   43   90



- 2 left
- 2 others have done 48/38/88


Note - Wally Scerbiak was just 3% FT away from matching Nash
Wall in at            49   41   86     
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 10, 2019, 11:58:30 AM
2 guys left


One's a guard.  One's not
One's white.  One's not
One's an NBA champ.  One's not
One's active,  One's not.
One has Knick ties.  One does not.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 10, 2019, 12:00:15 PM
Price was an excellent guess         47   40    90
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 10, 2019, 01:07:37 PM
Chauncey Billups.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 10, 2019, 01:22:03 PM
Hubert Davis??

(unlikely, but he was pretty lights out)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on December 10, 2019, 01:51:47 PM
Petrovic
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 10, 2019, 02:22:40 PM
Amazing

All those are real close.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 10, 2019, 02:25:07 PM
OKay, Harden has the Stepback 3, and now Doncic et al. are imitating that.
Scurry, Trae and others have the Long-Distance 3.

I'm waiting for someone to unleash the Turnaround 3.
I use it now and then in games and can make it as well as a regular 3 (I prefer rhythm with my shots).  Now I'm shooting on the sub-NBA intl 3-point line, but also I'm not as big and athletic as NBA players.
It's a tough shot to contend with, usually taking the defender by surprise.  And I can do it on a quick catch-and-shoot.
Closest I can recall was Glenn Rice doing it in college from the top of the arc.  I'm waiting for someone to break out the 3-Pt turnaround.

I won't even get into the 3-Point hook shot, which is not that hard if you have some touch ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 10, 2019, 02:26:46 PM
50   44   84    for Petrovic

46   44   84   for Davis

42   39   89  for  Billups
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 10, 2019, 02:31:57 PM
More clues

Neither PLAYED for the Knicks

The titles were won out West but he also lost one Finals
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 10, 2019, 03:20:01 PM
Chris Mullin
Peja Stojakovic
Title: Randle and Ellington
Post by: Kam on December 10, 2019, 03:22:50 PM
for Steven Adams.


Adams is your C, Taj and Robinson backs up
Morris, Portis and Taj are your PFs

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 10, 2019, 03:29:24 PM
Cool the jets on Thunder moves.  They are winning.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 10, 2019, 03:31:48 PM

Chris Mullin    51   38   87

Peja Stojakovic    45   40   90
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 10, 2019, 03:40:04 PM
The Thunder are also carrying 4 centers (of whom Adams is clearly the best). They’d have Noel, Muscala, and Patton still to man the pivot.

They’d get younger, cheaper, and faster.

Noel Randle Gallo SGA Paul gives you three serious facilitators and two serious finishers.

We’d be much better balanced and have a free slot to bring up Allen or another player.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 10, 2019, 07:47:52 PM
I read you wrong.  You think Thunder are trying to win by peddling Adams.

I think their fan base would disagree
Title: Gallo
Post by: Kam on December 10, 2019, 07:55:19 PM
We may have better luck offering them Randle for the expiring Danilo Gallinari.

They get something for a guy who might sign elsewhere anyway.
Title: Next Coach - if Miller is not brought back
Post by: Kam on December 10, 2019, 08:16:40 PM
I'm most intrigued by Becky Hammon.
Change the culture!
Title: RC Buford
Post by: Kam on December 10, 2019, 08:21:03 PM
With RC Buford as GM.
Title: Re: Next Coach - if Miller is not brought back
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 10, 2019, 08:25:43 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 10, 2019, 08:16:40 PM
I'm most intrigued by Becky Hammon.
Change the culture!

Only if she's gay
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 10, 2019, 08:29:06 PM
Just realized we get Melo tonight.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 10, 2019, 10:47:37 PM
Wow

Frank and Dennis -5 each and Elfrid to the rescue?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Merciless on December 10, 2019, 11:05:29 PM
New coach, same players, same ugly result.

This team plays no defense and can't score. Not much else to it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 10, 2019, 11:20:08 PM
Frank still switching

Blazers shoot 24 3s first half

Cutting opponents' 3 attempts would be a worthwhile goal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 10, 2019, 11:31:09 PM
Most teams have at least one guard who can, you know, make a jump shot.

It must be nice!

I can't remember what it must be like.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 11, 2019, 12:59:39 AM
Quote from: elephant on December 10, 2019, 11:31:09 PM
Most teams have at least one guard who can, you know, make a jump shot.

It must be nice!

I can't remember what it must be like.

I wish we still had D Rose.
Title: This just for BoZ
Post by: carlos123 on December 11, 2019, 01:45:53 AM
Zingerchair.com (http://Zingerchair.com)

Enjoy! 🎅
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 11, 2019, 02:19:25 AM
Quote from: Merciless on December 10, 2019, 11:05:29 PM
New coach, same players, same ugly result.

This team plays no defense and can't score. Not much else to it.

(https://media1.giphy.com/media/3NeRncMrUNb8astzVy/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 11, 2019, 02:21:42 AM
Quote from: Kam on December 11, 2019, 12:59:39 AM
I wish we still had D Rose.

I wish we had flipped him for Ricky Rubaiyat.

Knix might want to get some shooters.
35 / 16 / 61  in this game.

And some defenders.  And PG play.
First thing I look at in the box is the opp's 3-point shooting, then Knick assists, followed by Knick FT shooting and 3-shooting.

I'd trade Morris soon.  His value isn't going to get any higher.  Move him before he hits a slump or starts a brawl.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 11, 2019, 08:27:13 AM
Knicks have been directed to lose

How else do you explain

Frank - 1 assist in 18 minutes - outplayed and still starting both halves
Dennis - 0 assists in 14 minutes
Elfrid -  FOUR assists in 12 minutes
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 11, 2019, 10:03:29 AM
1st half

Frank in -    Knicks 12  Blazers 17

Dennis in -     Knicks 10  Blazers 15

Elfrid in -     Knicks 13  Blazers 12

Frank back in -     Knicks 6  Blazers 16

So, who starts second half?

Right.  Frank -    Knicks 8  Blazers 14

-   Knicks at this point have scored 26 points in Frank's 18 minutes on the floor.  He is done for the night

Please - enough of this clown.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 11, 2019, 10:31:16 AM
Your premise before was that Jr. Smith was outplaying Franc, which wasn't true.

Elf just back from injury so might be bringing him back slowly, since the team is 4-78 or whatever.

And the goal is probably to develop Franc and see if he can be a starting caliber PG.  In an already lost season, you can spend a month or two doing that.  The goal isn't losing, but improving for the future. 
Hell, for all we know the goal could be showcasing franc for a trade.
But more likely the new coach will make changes incrementally, after he gets to evaluate things.  If we're all in on the tank, we'll know by how soon the vets get traded out of here.

Elf right now is the best of the 3 PG's we have, but does he represent the future in any way?  Is he a starting PG on a playoff team going forward?
Unfortunately, none of our PG's can shoot 3's, so 2 PG alignments aren't going to go far.  And RJB isn't much of a 3 threat.  So by running 2 PG's you;d take out Dot/Trier?Ellington our best 3-ballers outside Morris.

Anywho we dead in the water with a GLeague interim coach.
Might try a little patience.  As Larry Kudlow said, Dec 15 is a big date.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 11, 2019, 10:48:22 AM
Lol..so now he's switched from DJ hard-on to Elfrid hard-on, I see.

as if...


*** The LOL Poll -- Where's Biz? Does Franc have a longer/better NBA career than Jimmer Fredette? BTW, where is Biz? Did he get offed?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 11, 2019, 11:10:31 AM
We might have an extra win or two if Elf had stayed healthy ... but so what?
Also, plenty of other teams succeed with next-man-up.
3 PG's, we should be able to weather injuries.
Though really 3 backup PG's.

Here's a good article on the state of Knickdumb:

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/28261417/lost-stars-lack-leadership-fleeting-hope-knicks

Quote
. . . the now-infamous news conference in which team president Steve Mills and general manager Scott Perry lambasted the current state of affairs, reiterating how unhappy everyone was after just 10 games. It was held at the behest of Knicks owner James Dolan, multiple sources have confirmed to ESPN. He thought it showed a sense of urgency. Instead, it destabilized the franchise and invited speculation about Fizdale's future.

There's also some on how close David Griffin was to becoming GM, but not only was he going to have to report to/work with Mills, but Mills whipped out the Tim Jr signing to flex his muscle when Griffin was flying to NYC to meet with Dolan.  I had forgotten about that.  That was a real power play by Mills, which sabotaged Griffin's candidacy (which was a threat to Mills) and led to the weaker Perry being selected. 

Impressive corporate infighting by Mills.  Also a poor move in terms of salary and player acquisition.  Why would Dolan sign off on a significant player acquisition when his preferred GM candidate was about to come in for a meeting?

Dolan will probably fire Perry, and bring in Allan Houston to work with Mills ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 11, 2019, 11:25:56 AM
Griffin was on a flight to New York to meet with Mills, when, according to sources, he saw a news alert that the Knicks had signed Tim Hardaway Jr. to a four-year, $71 million contract. If he were to accept the job, Griffin realized, he'd have to answer for a hefty contract he had no say in.

He went ahead with the flight and meeting but removed his name from consideration shortly thereafter.

After Mills' presence played a significant part in the Griffin talks falling apart, he sold Dolan a far less accomplished candidate: new Sacramento Kings VP of Basketball Operations Scott Perry.

As much as folks have an eye on 12/15....it really might be best if Mills weren't allowed to oversee a single further transaction for this club.
Title: AaarfAaarf
Post by: chipstern on December 11, 2019, 11:28:07 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on December 11, 2019, 10:48:22 AM
Lol..so now he's switched from DJ hard-on to Elfrid hard-on, I see.

as if...


*** The LOL Poll -- Where's Biz? Does Franc have a longer/better NBA career than Jimmer Fredette? BTW, where is Biz? Did he get offed?

Two things. 

Conjecture. 

Miller is trying to prop up the spirits and trade in value of all three PGs. 

Likewise. 

Elfrid was cementing the starting job when Smith was hurt and Frank was seeking his inner dog. 

Likely trying not to re-pop his hammy. 

PS: Frank is up and down. 

PPS: Dennis' confidence and trade value have cratered. 

PPPS: So much for all of that coaching Smart did with Dennis' shot. 

PPPPS: As per the KP trade, those suggesting that he is not playing up to his contract or his hype or what have you, in Dallas, KP (and Timmy for that matter) are thriving as complementary players, not being compelled to be lead dogs.  LD has that aarfaarf well in hand. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 11, 2019, 11:29:26 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on December 11, 2019, 11:25:56 AM
Griffin was on a flight to New York to meet with Mills, when, according to sources, he saw a news alert that the Knicks had signed Tim Hardaway Jr. to a four-year, $71 million contract. If he were to accept the job, Griffin realized, he'd have to answer for a hefty contract he had no say in.

He went ahead with the flight and meeting but removed his name from consideration shortly thereafter.

After Mills' presence played a significant part in the Griffin talks falling apart, he sold Dolan a far less accomplished candidate: new Sacramento Kings VP of Basketball Operations Scott Perry.

As much as folks have an eye on 12/15....it really might be best if Mills weren't allowed to oversee a single further transaction for this club.

Point taken. 

However that leaves whom to mind the store. 

That Dolan trusts. 

Allan Houston.

After which, the cupboard is bare. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 11, 2019, 11:33:43 AM
The MSG usher up by section 318 seemed to have his head on straight and some pretty good opinions during my single visit to the Garden last year. Dolan could turn it over to him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 11, 2019, 11:55:19 AM
Kiid's comments on last night's game are even stupider if you actually watched any of it.

To focus down on either Frank's or Dennis's assist #'s is inane considering the shooting —— on completely open shots —— it was clang, clang, clang, clang, clang, clang, clang. Both should have had 3 or 4 to match the ALMIGHTY ELFRID.

Was not a particularly stellar game from any of our point gods. But also not particularly the root cause of our demise.

That said, i will be rather disappointed if we don't see some kind of lineup change by game 4 or 5 from our new headmaster, and the lack of such change would both bode poorly for his prospects of any kind of success and confirm my quick and brutally unfair evaluation of his sac-size. My preference is to move Orange Julius to the bench. Let our man beast and feast to his heart's delight against second units. Unclog that middle a bit. Get another "shooter" (pick one) into the starting line-up.

Title: Re: AaarfAaarf
Post by: bodiddley on December 11, 2019, 02:41:14 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 11, 2019, 11:28:07 AM
PPPPS: As per the KP trade, those suggesting that he is not playing up to his contract or his hype or what have you, in Dallas, KP (and Timmy for that matter) are thriving as complementary players, not being compelled to be lead dogs.  LD has that aarfaarf well in hand.

Which is fine enough for now and probably this season.
But to make any noise in the playoffs this year or next, they'll need KZ to return to form and Tim Jr to be more consistent.

All along I said you'll have to wait til 2020 kicks in to start evaluating post-injury KZ.

But yes, Doncic has really been a phenom.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Merciless on December 11, 2019, 04:12:38 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 11, 2019, 08:27:13 AM
Knicks have been directed to lose

How else do you explain

Frank - 1 assist in 18 minutes - outplayed and still starting both halves
Dennis - 0 assists in 14 minutes
Elfrid -  FOUR assists in 12 minutes

Too fucking funny... how about this for an explanation. Your team as currently constituted sucks regardless if you believe otherwise.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Merciless on December 11, 2019, 04:15:42 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on December 11, 2019, 11:25:56 AM
Griffin was on a flight to New York to meet with Mills, when, according to sources, he saw a news alert that the Knicks had signed Tim Hardaway Jr. to a four-year, $71 million contract. If he were to accept the job, Griffin realized, he'd have to answer for a hefty contract he had no say in.

He went ahead with the flight and meeting but removed his name from consideration shortly thereafter.

After Mills' presence played a significant part in the Griffin talks falling apart, he sold Dolan a far less accomplished candidate: new Sacramento Kings VP of Basketball Operations Scott Perry.

As much as folks have an eye on 12/15....it really might be best if Mills weren't allowed to oversee a single further transaction for this club.

Griffin..now there's a smart man...I can't expect Dolan will stick with Mills much longer. Gone before January ends.
Title: Re: AaarfAaarf
Post by: Merciless on December 11, 2019, 04:26:03 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 11, 2019, 11:28:07 AM

PS: Frank is up and down. 


You're a genius...how bout this, the kid is a basic role player who essentially is a 1st round bust.
Title: Allan Houston
Post by: Kam on December 11, 2019, 04:43:28 PM
I keep hearing Houston's name brought up and not always in a positive light because he's Dolan's guy.

But so is Mills and i personally have a lot more trust in Allan than Steve.  Give Allan the job, let him hire the next GM.
Title: Re: AaarfAaarf
Post by: elephant on December 11, 2019, 06:26:56 PM
Quote from: Merciless on December 11, 2019, 04:26:03 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 11, 2019, 11:28:07 AM

PS: Frank is up and down. 


You're a genius...how bout this, the kid is a basic role player who essentially is a 1st round bust.

This is almost certainly true. It's not that he doesn't consistently impact the game.

He never impacts the game.

He's a good man and a good player with skills. But a starting guard in the NBA? Only if you're happy remaining at the bottom.

Yes, get rid of one of the 3-headed trio as soon as possible. And for now, give Kadeem a chance to direct the floor.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 11, 2019, 08:00:26 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on December 11, 2019, 10:48:22 AM
Lol..so now he's switched from DJ hard-on to Elfrid hard-on, I see.

as if...


*** The LOL Poll -- Where's Biz? Does Franc have a longer/better NBA career than Jimmer Fredette? BTW, where is Biz? Did he get offed?
Fuck off, L-dog

I have had Elfrid starting from the jump

But coaches have killed Smith's confidence.

I posted preseason how if Smith wasnt starting you could lose him quickly.  That wasnt my line - was echoing an analyst.

At the time I boosted Smith - yes - I thought he'd be better - but check the  game log - tell me what occurred after Dennis had his breakout 17 and 7 in a win.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 11, 2019, 08:02:53 PM
PPPS: So much for all of that coaching Smart did with Dennis' shot.


Still waiting for the story on Smart

Could be that not only was he pubbing for the head job but he was also in Smith's corner for minutes - and voiced it so.
Title: Biz? Did he get offed?
Post by: carlos123 on December 11, 2019, 09:38:10 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on December 11, 2019, 10:48:22 AM
Lol..so now he's switched from DJ hard-on to Elfrid hard-on, I see.

as if...


*** The LOL Poll -- Where's Biz? Does Franc have a longer/better NBA career than Jimmer Fredette? BTW, where is Biz? Did he get offed?

Biz, PLEASE, tell us it ain't so

(https://morethanjustdialogue.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/1900552_10205277779320066_3914322206087369719_o.jpg)

AND GET AWAY FROM THAT GIRL. FAST!!!

By the way, she's a friend of this guy ...

(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/NtLk44hEDXkzoScjrhQUkkeYkCQ=/1535x0:2385x2018/1200x800/filters:focal(1710x322:2194x806)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/63210709/usa_today_9873975.0.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 11, 2019, 10:39:12 PM
https://nypost.com/2019/12/11/mike-millers-future-with-knicks-may-already-be-in-jeopardy/?utm_source=twitter_sitebuttons&utm_medium=site%20buttons&utm_campaign=site%20buttons

At no point during Fizdale’s season-and-a-quarter stint did he show the front office an acumen for making in-game adjustments, especially in the fourth quarter, to pull out close games.



heh

Keep starting #11
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on December 11, 2019, 10:49:49 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 11, 2019, 10:39:12 PM
https://nypost.com/2019/12/11/mike-millers-future-with-knicks-may-already-be-in-jeopardy/?utm_source=twitter_sitebuttons&utm_medium=site%20buttons&utm_campaign=site%20buttons

At no point during Fizdale’s season-and-a-quarter stint did he show the front office an acumen for making in-game adjustments, especially in the fourth quarter, to pull out close games.



heh

Keep starting #11

The article says nothing of the sort.  The Knicks couldn't hit a shot if the basket were the ocean. Stuff happens.

The reason you start Ntilikina is because he's not an off-the-bench spark plug, that's not his game.  Starting is the biggest bang for the buck. Everybody was missing bunnies. Eventually they will drop.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 11, 2019, 11:07:30 PM
30-20

Payton it up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 11, 2019, 11:26:19 PM
Miller limiting Randle's numbers again
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 11, 2019, 11:51:07 PM
Djr out for the game with a "lack of confidence"...for the first time in awhile, we enter the 2nd half with a chance2win!
Title: Bad Frank
Post by: Kam on December 12, 2019, 12:19:56 AM
Frank playing well for the Warriors tonight
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 12, 2019, 01:03:40 AM
You can't make this shit up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 12, 2019, 01:03:57 AM
yikes
Title: Really?
Post by: carlos123 on December 12, 2019, 01:04:12 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on December 11, 2019, 11:51:07 PM
Djr out for the game with a "lack of confidence"...for the first time in awhile, we enter the 2nd half with a chance2win!

Say whah............?
Title: Ntilikinoutta here
Post by: Kam on December 12, 2019, 01:11:27 AM
Frank i hope has played his last game as a Knick.  This was a microcosm game of why Frank should go.  He did his patented "I don't want to bring the ball up" move when passed to and passed it right to a PF for a backcourt violation and had a string of turnovers in the 3rd to blow the lead.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 12, 2019, 01:15:25 AM
DNP - Lack of Confidence
Title: Phew 😅
Post by: carlos123 on December 12, 2019, 01:22:00 AM
Great call by coach on the last inbound. Wonder what Phony Phizz would have called, probably inbound directly to the Warriors, just to “confuse” them 🤣
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 12, 2019, 01:24:33 AM
Knix actually made their FT's.
Miss the usual amount and could be a loss.

Title: Re: Phew 😅
Post by: bodiddley on December 12, 2019, 01:25:22 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 12, 2019, 01:22:00 AM
Great call by coach on the last inbound. Wonder what Phony Phizz would have called, probably inbound directly to the Warriors, just to “confuse” them 🤣

That worked for the Nets . . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 12, 2019, 08:51:58 AM
Nice to see Elfrid play the entire OT

Was far from flawless, but RUNS the team.

Knicks again don't foul, up 3 with 7 seconds left.  Should have been a shorter game.

Around theleague, Harden gets 55, now has 11 of those, to 9 for Kobe and 9 for Jordan (Wilt had 73)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 12, 2019, 02:23:39 PM
Morris and DSJ for Bazemore and Simons

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7255565

Gets us a better young guard on a better contract. Portland will have to put in its next best draft asset or two to make this happen.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Merciless on December 12, 2019, 03:59:28 PM
So it appears that the Golden State Warriors won Twit of the Year honors last night - well done.

(https://i.makeagif.com/media/9-14-2015/y0litM.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on December 12, 2019, 04:00:58 PM
Steve Kerr:  “So I think people recognize that New York is a basketball town, it’s a basketball city. I think most people in the league want the Knicks to be good. I know I do. I think it’s something that’s missing from the league. We need them to have success. They’re a marquee franchise. … I would like to see things get turned around there for the sake of the league and the sake of the Knicks fans because they have great fans there.”

I hate it when smart people, and Steve Kerr is really a very smart person,  say dopey,  gratuitous things - no one gives a rats  ass how good or bad the Knicks are, certainly not the NBA, and NY might be a basketball city - but for much of the last 20 years the evidence has been  to the contrary....MSG might be filled, but it's filled w corporate freeloaders and maybe a few rube tourists...

The Knicks have proven to be the most inconsequential large market franchise in the NBA, and the pressure from the press and fans (just why did  "fan base" come to replace "fans", like "skill set" to "skills") has not been nearly as unrelenting as it should be....

I forget which forumite pledged "...not one thin dime [spent on Dolan and the Knicks]..." - a rallying cry that should have been long ago adopted by the entire city....

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 12, 2019, 04:13:00 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 12, 2019, 02:23:39 PM
Morris and DSJ for Bazemore and Simons

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7255565

Gets us a better young guard on a better contract. Portland will have to put in its next best draft asset or two to make this happen.

I am going to pass on that - from both sides.

Like a "good for both teams" trade, but in reverse.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 12, 2019, 04:29:58 PM
I think Kerr knows what he's talking about.
If the Knicks are good it ups the media attention and prestige of the whole league.

The NBA has been doing quite well, but the League is stronger and grows bigger when there are competitive teams in LALakerville, NYK, BOS and to a lesser extent CHI.

It's great when small-market teams do well.  But the Spurs and now Bucks and for a while OKC just don't drive the league and up the hype factor like LAL, NYK, BOS can.  Tradition + Big Market simply pushes the needle further.

Otherwise rivalries are good for the NBA.  If BOS-PHI becomes a thing in playoff fights, that'll be good.   The two LA teams doing battle post-season would be good too.  If Knick were good, Knix-Celts, Knix-'6ers, Knix-BKY could be big stuff.  Alas and alack.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Merciless on December 12, 2019, 05:12:34 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 12, 2019, 04:29:58 PM
I think Kerr knows what he's talking about.
If the Knicks are good it ups the media attention and prestige of the whole league.

The NBA has been doing quite well, but the League is stronger and grows bigger when there are competitive teams in LALakerville, NYK, BOS and to a lesser extent CHI.

It's great when small-market teams do well.  But the Spurs and now Bucks and for a while OKC just don't drive the league and up the hype factor like LAL, NYK, BOS can.  Tradition + Big Market simply pushes the needle further.

Otherwise rivalries are good for the NBA.  If BOS-PHI becomes a thing in playoff fights, that'll be good.   The two LA teams doing battle post-season would be good too.  If Knick were good, Knix-Celts, Knix-'6ers, Knix-BKY could be big stuff.  Alas and alack.

Agreed - look no further than Yankees/Red Sox rivalry which doesn't just draw their fans but lots of "baseball" fans. As a Mets fan, I hate the Yankees but used to watch that rivalry.

Yankees-Dodgers World Series would break the bank and be great for baseball.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 12, 2019, 05:43:58 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 12, 2019, 08:51:58 AM
Nice to see Elfrid play the entire OT

Was far from flawless, but RUNS the team.

Knicks again don't foul, up 3 with 7 seconds left.  Should have been a shorter game.

Around theleague, Harden gets 55, now has 11 of those, to 9 for Kobe and 9 for Jordan (Wilt had 73)

This game was between the current two worse teams in the NBA. And it looked like it. Ugly sometimes, absurd the rest.

But yeah, E Payton was a bright spot. He directing the fucking show with aggression, intensity and a kind of craftiness. He missed several layups, made a bunch of turnovers, but at least he was actively doing what we desperately need our point guard to do (as Kid notes)....run the team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 12, 2019, 06:48:03 PM
Quote from: Merciless on December 12, 2019, 05:12:34 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 12, 2019, 04:29:58 PM
I think Kerr knows what he's talking about.
If the Knicks are good it ups the media attention and prestige of the whole league.

The NBA has been doing quite well, but the League is stronger and grows bigger when there are competitive teams in LALakerville, NYK, BOS and to a lesser extent CHI.

It's great when small-market teams do well.  But the Spurs and now Bucks and for a while OKC just don't drive the league and up the hype factor like LAL, NYK, BOS can.  Tradition + Big Market simply pushes the needle further.

Otherwise rivalries are good for the NBA.  If BOS-PHI becomes a thing in playoff fights, that'll be good.   The two LA teams doing battle post-season would be good too.  If Knick were good, Knix-Celts, Knix-'6ers, Knix-BKY could be big stuff.  Alas and alack.

Agreed - look no further than Yankees/Red Sox rivalry which doesn't just draw their fans but lots of "baseball" fans. As a Mets fan, I hate the Yankees but used to watch that rivalry.

Yankees-Dodgers World Series would break the bank and be great for baseball.

Yanks had the team this year.  Still cant believe they faltered.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 12, 2019, 08:34:20 PM
Shumpert available.  Need a practice scrapper.  Second teamer behind Barrett.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on December 12, 2019, 11:50:07 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 12, 2019, 06:48:03 PM
Yanks had the team this year.  Still cant believe they faltered.
no such thing as a sure thing or even a close to sure thing...

surprising to see plain vanilla platitudes about the notion that the NBA is stronger with a strong Knicks team...they haven't for 20 years and going...and the NBA exploded...what they need to do now is shorten the season and you know that will never happen...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 13, 2019, 12:35:06 AM
Quote from: Jack Straw on December 12, 2019, 11:50:07 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 12, 2019, 06:48:03 PM
Yanks had the team this year.  Still cant believe they faltered.
no such thing as a sure thing or even a close to sure thing...

surprising to see plain vanilla platitudes about the notion that the NBA is stronger with a strong Knicks team...they haven't for 20 years and going...and the NBA exploded...what they need to do now is shorten the season and you know that will never happen...

You see the explosion with hindsight but you don't see how much bigger the explosion could be.

The NBA exploded when it had star players in big markets. 
LA and Boston, then Detroit, Chicago, New York and Houston.
Those Spurs teams, those Larry Brown Pistons... that was a downturn.
Then... Lakers started winning again, Boston started winning again.
LeBron had to team up with superfriends etc...

It wont be great for the NBA to have the Bucks vs Nuggets in the finals as it would be if it had Lakers/Celts or Lakers/Philadelphia

Knicks are terrible and the NBA is what it is today... if the Knicks were GREAT the NBA could be bigger.

That is all.

So in that explosive 20 year period you had big markets prospering.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 13, 2019, 12:41:55 AM
It's entirely possible that you're wrong.
And that the NBA would have exploded moreso with a contending Knick team in the mix. Having a crummy team in the major media market has been an NBA weakness for two decades now.  With the NBA flourishing despite that injury.   [Next team up!]  The NBA and players all know that.
Having a weak sister in NY is bad for the NBA.

The very fact that NYK has been stinky for 2 decades means the next time the Knix revive and truly contend, it will be huger than huge.  Since NY fans are so desperate for a contender.

Lastly, you hear players and coaches all the time saying the same sort of thing Kerr said.  KD just the other day said that he considered NYK and that the next star who brings NY to contention will be hyper-celebrated.
Players still talk about MSG as the Mecca.  Guys love to perform well in NYC, as their exploits get extra hype.  It's still NY, NY.  There's still Madison Ave, etc.  Trump.  Bloomberg.  Even Hillary.  It's a NY moment without the Knickers. . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 13, 2019, 01:02:24 PM
Yawn.....

Isnt there a game tonight?

Payton to start?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 13, 2019, 01:36:41 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 13, 2019, 01:02:24 PM

Payton to start?

Miller has said he likes the starts Frank has been getting the team off to.
So for now i expect Frank to start and Payton to finish.
Title: Is JD John Daly?
Post by: Kam on December 13, 2019, 01:37:57 PM
https://awfulannouncing.com/twitter/johnathan-daly-knicks-james-dolan.html (https://awfulannouncing.com/twitter/johnathan-daly-knicks-james-dolan.html)
Title: Re: Is JD John Daly?
Post by: elephant on December 13, 2019, 02:03:03 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 13, 2019, 01:37:57 PM
https://awfulannouncing.com/twitter/johnathan-daly-knicks-james-dolan.html (https://awfulannouncing.com/twitter/johnathan-daly-knicks-james-dolan.html)

Wow.

That's funny shit.
Title: Re: Is JD John Daly?
Post by: Kam on December 13, 2019, 02:09:08 PM
Quote from: elephant on December 13, 2019, 02:03:03 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 13, 2019, 01:37:57 PM
https://awfulannouncing.com/twitter/johnathan-daly-knicks-james-dolan.html (https://awfulannouncing.com/twitter/johnathan-daly-knicks-james-dolan.html)

Wow.

That's funny shit.

So Dolan apparently wanted Donovan Mitchell and thinks he knows Basketball and should be the GM.

I'm all for Dolan coaching this team.
Title: Re: Is JD John Daly?
Post by: chipstern on December 13, 2019, 02:59:25 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 13, 2019, 02:09:08 PM
Quote from: elephant on December 13, 2019, 02:03:03 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 13, 2019, 01:37:57 PM
https://awfulannouncing.com/twitter/johnathan-daly-knicks-james-dolan.html (https://awfulannouncing.com/twitter/johnathan-daly-knicks-james-dolan.html)

Wow.

That's funny shit.

So Dolan apparently wanted Donovan Mitchell and thinks he knows Basketball and should be the GM.

I'm all for Dolan coaching this team.

And why not, indeed? 

Frank Isola
✔
@TheFrankIsola
 · Dec 11, 2019
Portland 20-year-old rookie Anfernee Simons went 5 for 9 with 16 points. The Knicks last three lottery picks - Frank Ntilikina, Kevin Knox & RJ Barrett - went a combined 3 for 21 with 9 points.


Johnathan Daly
@DalyJohnathan
If it was up to James Dolan, Donovan Mitchell would be a New York Knick and Ntilikina would be on the streets in France. GM Mills butchered the pick.

3
4:34 PM - Dec 11, 2019

Is it worth mentioning that FRANK was NOT a Mills pick, but rather, a Phil Jackson/Clarence Gains pick on PHUL'S WAY OUT THE DOOR? 

Not of a piece with Affirmative Ed Tapscott passing on Ron Artest to take Frederick Weis on HIS WAY OUT THE DOOR, but well...

(https://media1.giphy.com/media/F16WRNPVp2VXO/source.gif)

Comforting to know how well Jimmy The Jizz and Papa Ball should get along. 
Title: Re: Is JD John Daly?
Post by: elephant on December 13, 2019, 03:24:46 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 13, 2019, 02:09:08 PM
Quote from: elephant on December 13, 2019, 02:03:03 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 13, 2019, 01:37:57 PM
https://awfulannouncing.com/twitter/johnathan-daly-knicks-james-dolan.html (https://awfulannouncing.com/twitter/johnathan-daly-knicks-james-dolan.html)

Wow.

That's funny shit.

So Dolan apparently wanted Donovan Mitchell and thinks he knows Basketball and should be the GM.

I'm all for Dolan coaching this team.

The entertainment value of that alone would be incredible.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 13, 2019, 03:30:50 PM
It's not Dolan's fault, it's those idiots he hired ...

Funny.
Hopefully it is Dolan and Mills is soon to be gone.

Problem is this about-to-open trade season is pretty important for Los Knickeroos.

Simons and DJ Wilson are two of my trade targets.
Title: Bizzaro World Logic
Post by: chipstern on December 13, 2019, 03:39:05 PM
Worth pointing out that among both our fans and the press...

That the notion of trading our best player from a scoring, defense, FT/3-Point Shooting and LEADERSHIP perspective, our one undeniable FA home run, has so much traction. 

N
U
T
Z

Klutz The Process
Title: contract year
Post by: bodiddley on December 13, 2019, 03:45:27 PM
So you're going to re-sign him into his 30's to go with our not-ready-yet yute?

Morris is our best trade asset and doesn't match our time frame.
If you're going to keep Morris, I'd move Randle, but his value is lower.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 13, 2019, 04:16:00 PM
Thad is unhappy in Chicago, Gafford is good.

http://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7256019 (http://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7256019)

Swap Thaddeus Young and Luke Kornet for Taj Gibson and Dennis Smith. They could take Trier instead if they prefer.

Miller would get a floor stretching big he’s familiar with. We’d get a really smart ball handling combo forward who can teach Knox and Randle more things they need to know than Taj can. I’m happier with Portis doing Taj things than I am with Taj doing them.

Taj going back to Chicago to replace a disgruntled Thad Young is a good story for them and if they want to cheap out they don’t have to pick up his contract next year.

It thins our guard heard by either a Smith Jr. or a Trier and gets us a fairly functional stretch five back in the process.
Title: Re: contract year
Post by: chipstern on December 13, 2019, 04:24:52 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 13, 2019, 03:45:27 PM
So you're going to re-sign him into his 30's to go with our not-ready-yet yute?

Morris is our best trade asset and doesn't match our time frame.
If you're going to keep Morris, I'd move Randle, but his value is lower.

That logic eludes me. 

Our time frame?

How about talent...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 13, 2019, 05:05:59 PM
Morris has more value to a playoff team than to us.
Sell High.
Beware a contract year phenom.
Title: SIgh
Post by: chipstern on December 13, 2019, 05:53:09 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 13, 2019, 05:05:59 PM
Morris has more value to a playoff team than to us.
Sell High.
Beware a contract year phenom.

And get back what exactly? 

A late first rounder? 

Be still my heart. 

Of a piece with rearrange the fucking furniture trades I've seen floated by such otherwise sentient observers such as Facil which suggest it would make sense to take on the contract of 31-going-on 32 Thaddeus Young, whose 12-13-14 million dollar cap hit would remain on our books through 2022. 

Oh, and as for the beware contract year phenoms? 

Uh huh. 

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/morrima03.html (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/morrima03.html)

Apparently his phenomenon stage has been on an upward ascent since 2015-2016. 

Couldn't be that he is actually getting better and coming into his own when presented with the opportunity to be a first option.

"No, a contract year phenom and a good player on a bad team."

Uh huh. 

A .489% from trey [66-135] and and .854% from the FT [88-103] line. 

Yeah, I could see where he doesn't fit. 

Not to mention the message it sends to other free agents about your longevity in NYC. 

Sigh

Imagine what this stats might look like if Elfrid had been healthy and at the rudder these six weeks. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 13, 2019, 06:10:23 PM
So you're going to re-sign him into his 30's to go with our not-ready-yet yute?


Knicks should be plenty ready next year in time for the new coach's arrival.

Morris would be a good keep - but he will cost.

Maybe Biz has an alternative in mind, someone younger - or wants Knox to be a starter

Remember though, Bizness - our goal - the TEAM'a goal - is to contend for the playoffs, not grow our "yute".
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 13, 2019, 06:18:21 PM
Miller has said he likes the starts Frank has been getting the team off to.


heh

Well, we WERE leading 8-3 when he left vs Warriors.

But leaving with the contest with foul trouble

a)  3 minutes into the game
and
b)  2 minutes into the second quarter

I would not call impressive

Prior to that - I cited the slow starts half one and two the prior game - wont go further than that -

Mitchell was in Frank's year, right?  If Dolan is touting - stating he wanted Mitchell I cant see him also sending word from above that Frank has to be the starter

This is all you, MILLER. On with it now.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 13, 2019, 06:35:26 PM
I dont know, Chip - I dont really mind the contract year argument.  Morris DID ascend in both his contract years to date - 3 if you include this one.

I am with you - dont sell cheap on Marcus.  But I do like the 2020 draft.  Adding a pick would be wise.

So, OFFER the extension prior to the deadline rather than re-signing Morris in the summer.  If he says no, deal away.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 13, 2019, 06:38:23 PM
I also think Morris likely expects to be traded.  Any thought that it would be an insult - a deterrent for any future signings - is silly.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 13, 2019, 06:56:41 PM
Since Frank's "breakout" 14 point game he has averaged - in 5 games - 15 minutes and 1.4 field goals (7- 21) per outing.  8 assists, 9 turnovers, 1 steal, 0 blocks

Still not actually guarding point guards.  Not putting a defensive stamp on games at all, despite showing good 1 v 1 skill when there is no screen available to his man.  Getting beat 1 v 1 more often than you would like.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 13, 2019, 07:25:40 PM
Quote
Of a piece with rearrange the fucking furniture trades I've seen floated by such otherwise sentient observers such as Facil which suggest it would make sense to take on the contract of 31-going-on 32 Thaddeus Young, whose 12-13-14 million dollar cap hit would remain on our books through 2022. 

Says the guy making the case to resign the 31 year old Morris for what exactly? More than 14 mil is for damn sure.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on December 13, 2019, 07:54:46 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 13, 2019, 07:25:40 PM
Quote
Of a piece with rearrange the fucking furniture trades I've seen floated by such otherwise sentient observers such as Facil which suggest it would make sense to take on the contract of 31-going-on 32 Thaddeus Young, whose 12-13-14 million dollar cap hit would remain on our books through 2022. 

Says the guy making the case to resign the 31 year old Morris for what exactly? More than 14 mil is for damn sure.

Morris just turned 30.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 13, 2019, 08:29:31 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on December 13, 2019, 07:54:46 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 13, 2019, 07:25:40 PM
Quote
Of a piece with rearrange the fucking furniture trades I've seen floated by such otherwise sentient observers such as Facil which suggest it would make sense to take on the contract of 31-going-on 32 Thaddeus Young, whose 12-13-14 million dollar cap hit would remain on our books through 2022. 

Says the guy making the case to resign the 31 year old Morris for what exactly? More than 14 mil is for damn sure.

Morris just turned 30.

But he's an old soul.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 13, 2019, 08:31:34 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on December 13, 2019, 07:54:46 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 13, 2019, 07:25:40 PM
Quote
Of a piece with rearrange the fucking furniture trades I've seen floated by such otherwise sentient observers such as Facil which suggest it would make sense to take on the contract of 31-going-on 32 Thaddeus Young, whose 12-13-14 million dollar cap hit would remain on our books through 2022. 

Says the guy making the case to resign the 31 year old Morris for what exactly? More than 14 mil is for damn sure.

Morris just turned 30.

And is a tad better than T Young
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jerrya on December 13, 2019, 09:24:39 PM
 MILLS and PERRY are Jokes..
We  more than tripled Perry's salary from what he was making with the KINGS, and gave him a role he never had.

So not only does MILLS over pay every Bull shit role player he signs, he does the same with everyone one on the staff..

This guy has done nothing right in his entire tenure.  Time to go.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 13, 2019, 09:29:20 PM
Lakers lining up LeBron, Davis, Howard, Green, Caldwell Pope vs Heat.  Killing em with size
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 13, 2019, 10:14:58 PM
CLANK!

Nice start, Frank.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on December 13, 2019, 10:45:03 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 13, 2019, 10:14:58 PM
CLANK!

Nice start, Frank.

Seriously.
Title: Defense
Post by: chipstern on December 14, 2019, 12:18:08 AM
Finish it guys.

♡
Title: Finish 'Em
Post by: chipstern on December 14, 2019, 12:23:25 AM
Come on, Julius.

There you go, two in a row.

Knicks come back from 16 down.  Survive Buddy H. Onslaught.

YES.

♤♡◇♧

PS: Nice end game management  by Coach Mikler
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 14, 2019, 12:24:34 AM
Good stuff from Taj, Randall, Morris and....

Payton Payton Payton
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 14, 2019, 12:25:30 AM
Knicks caught streaking!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 14, 2019, 12:26:33 AM
Quote from: elephant on December 14, 2019, 12:24:34 AM
Good stuff from Taj, Randall, Morris and....

Payton Payton Payton

Need to amend that cuz Dotson, Mitchell and Portis played well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 14, 2019, 12:27:45 AM
Van Gundyish 9-man rotation.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 14, 2019, 12:33:20 AM
All our starters were negative plus minus!
Frank a -22
Next lowest Knicks?
Barrett a -11.
Randle a -7

Frank a -22 in 21 minutes.
Can't play him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 14, 2019, 12:37:47 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 14, 2019, 12:27:45 AM
Van Gundyish 9-man rotation.

10 man rotation.

Minimized turnovers, made the extra pass...bench came up BIG.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 14, 2019, 12:40:38 AM
Payton +19
Dotson +17
Play these guys more!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 14, 2019, 12:44:07 AM
Quote from: Kam on December 14, 2019, 12:33:20 AM
All our starters were negative plus minus!
Frank a -22
Next lowest Knicks?
Barrett a -11.
Randle a -7

Frank a -22 in 21 minutes.
Can't play him.

Yes, interesting stat, that.

Still Randle came up BIG.

Payton was the difference.  Rudder.  LEADERSHIP.

Defense.

Coach had Taj in there at the end, big 8mpact.

DEFENSE by the bench. 

Good win.

Denver looms.  Much better team.

PS: Frank was grotesque in the first half.  Wally was,aghast at how he telegraphed passes.  With Elfrid in there, turnovers way the fuck down.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 14, 2019, 12:45:11 AM
Quote from: Kam on December 14, 2019, 12:40:38 AM
Payton +19
Dotson +17
Play these guys more!

Yup.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 14, 2019, 12:57:48 AM
Quote from: chipstern on December 14, 2019, 12:45:11 AM
Quote from: Kam on December 14, 2019, 12:40:38 AM
Payton +19
Dotson +17
Play these guys more!

Yup.

Dot played/thrived under Miller in Westchester
Title: Van Grumpy
Post by: carlos123 on December 14, 2019, 01:05:32 AM
Quote from: chipstern on December 14, 2019, 12:37:47 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 14, 2019, 12:27:45 AM
Van Gundyish 9-man rotation.

10 man rotation.

Minimized turnovers, made the extra pass...bench came up BIG.

The Grumpy didn’t play 9 man rotation, max of 8.
Title: Why we won
Post by: Kam on December 14, 2019, 01:08:01 AM
24 assists 8 turnovers

vs


19 assists 13 turnovers
Title: The real deal?
Post by: carlos123 on December 14, 2019, 01:12:37 AM
Have we lucked into the coach that we need?

About time, after some 25 years!

Don’t trade anybody now. Not until coach Miller can show us what we have.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 14, 2019, 02:25:36 AM
I'd prefer the 2 Losses.
<ducks>

Just 18 FT's combined.  Unusual.

I'm not completely against re-signing Morris.
A hard worker, some leadership skills. 
Note it was MaMo who called the player's meeting, not Randle.

3 outcomes:
trade Morris for some yute/picks
re-sign Morris
he walks in FA.

The latter is clearly a poor use of an asset.
Re-signing him could work out but means trying to rejig the team so Morris can settle in as a 2nd or 3rd option.  He's probably looking for a 4 year deal.  In his 30's.  Seems well-conditioned and a reasonably low injury risk.

Knix have to be listening to offers for Morris.
I'd like to get a promising yute or player and pick.

Does Morris even want to stay in NY (this year? for the future?).
Why would he?
We're a dysfunctional losing team that just fired it's coach while the front office is tottering.  I'd much rather get traded to a playoff team.  And I wouldn't re-sign in NY without a serious overpay.

Really I think we'd be doing Morris a solid getting him out of our morass.
 And getting him into the playoffs.  That's where you can really earn your next contract.  But winning is so much more fulfilling than losing.

Bottom Line:  I'd move Morris before he hits a slump.  A career 38% 3Pt shooter isn't going to continue to shoot 48% the rest of the season.  His value is never going to be higher.  And the sooner you trade him the more a playoff team gets out of him.  Since he's an ending contract.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 14, 2019, 03:08:03 AM
Knix might be better off starting Elf.  But then you'd be running with 4 vets and one yute (RJB) in a 6-20 season.
Hard to see the benefit.  I'd rather more starts for the yute.

I guess you could swap in Mitch for Taj.
Elf- RJB - Morris - Randle - Mitch

Still get 2 yute starting.
And Barrett and Mitch arguably our two most valuable young'uns.
I'd be fine with that.

(and then Knox starts once you flip MaMo to a playoff team)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 14, 2019, 03:11:55 AM
They may not understand everything they need to do yet, but these players can be coached.

If our young guys, Frank, Barrett, and Knox hit some of the very nice wide open threes they got we would have been potent offensively. We blew some gimme layups as well.

I trust Miller to boost Frank and Knox as the season rolls on. When Payton finds his wind, I expect he will start and Frank will have an easier time as his backup.

In addition to stepping up as the offensive bell cow, Randle played some crazy good D in space.

Miller is quickly becoming my favorite Knicks coach in a long time.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 14, 2019, 08:15:53 AM
How do we feel this morning about Frank's 6 mil extension?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 14, 2019, 09:41:52 AM
Booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 14, 2019, 04:02:28 PM
If we keep Miller and Frank gets to play all season with Payton, I expect we’ll feel very good about that extension when we have him for only 6 Mil next year. The bigger question is whether Dennis can be rehabilitated.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 14, 2019, 06:51:31 PM
So I went to a park I used to play at and things have changed quite a bit.  About 6 months ago they set up a full body turnstile entrance/exit system, where you use your phone to scan an QR code which keeps track of how long you've been in the hoops area and charges you via phone accordingly.  Sort of like a high tech version of those old NYC subway full-body turnstiles.  Shanghai hoops goes high tech.

Hoops at the park used to be free.  I knew a number of guys who would be there all day every day it seemed.  So I'd always get in a game easily.  But now that's a bit expensive to do.  Charging per hour does cut down on the number of people there.   And the number who spend all day there.  So it's still easy to get in games.  But I hardly knew anyone there. 

Anyway, I'm mentioning this because in between the two courts they have these plaques in the ground with a handprint and sneakerprint for a handful of NBA players.  First one I check out is Scurry.  Pretty normal-sized.  Then the next one is  . . .  Dennis Smith Jr.  Huh?  Looks like he has real small hands.  My palms are regular sized but I have short fingers.  And so it seems does Jr. Smith.  We matched, or maybe my stubby fingers were a smidge longer.  Small hands are not good for dribbling.

It turns out that it was an Under Armour sponsored thing, and Smith Jr. is one of their lesser-celebrated clients.  They're probably regretting that decision.  The other two were Embiid and Mo Bamba.  Mo has large appendages.

So not only does the park charge an hourly fee, but they also get sponsorship money from a sneaker company.  (Btw, it only costs about $0.70 per hour)

What is up with Smith Jr?
Is he just not very good?
Not focused enough?
I thought he could at least be a Shroder type backup PG.
Maybe he should go to Gee-League for a spell (?)
Get reps as lead guard and rebuild confidence.
Better than inventing fake illnesses for him ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 14, 2019, 07:02:14 PM
Well, if you have seen him recently - no - not Shroder.

Hate to say it but his sloppiness is akin to the current Lonzo Ball, though of course LB is more talented.

Neither playing optimally. And neither getting desired minutes.

Shroder doesnt play as scattered as you think.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 14, 2019, 07:21:29 PM
I was hoping Jr. Smith could become a quick, get-to-the-rack PG and develop a passable 3-point shot.  I really haven't seen Smith much on the Knix.
A few games I've seen him look real sloppy.  Some others he has flashed legit skills.

I wasn't really trying to knock Shroder, though he's a guy I don't trust.
But with what he does he's fairly effective, though not terribly consistent.

Give me a better comp or goal for Jr. Smith? 
Is he salvageable?  Or is this going to take a multi-year and multi-team rehab?
I was surprised he has a deal with Under Armour.  Probably signed it before he played his first NBA game.

Sure hope we hit on those #20 picks we'll get from DAL, because Smith Jr, DeAndrethe Giant and Wes Matthews sure didn't amount to anything knickwise.

When was the last good Knick trade?
Something involving Camby (?)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 14, 2019, 07:31:42 PM
Well, Shroder is certainly available.
OKC has Shai-guy, their PG of the future.  CP3 and Shroder.
Right now Shai leads the Thunders in scoring (almost 19 per) which i didn't realize.
Shai, CP3 and Shroder are 3 of their top 4 scorers.
I doubt any team has ever had 3 PG's among their Top 4 scorers before.

Shroder just turned 26 to start the season.
Seems like he's been around forever.
This year, 3.4 assists to 2.6 turnovers.
He's a scorer with a weak 3 point shot (32.8%, just at his career average).
Shroder always seemed to me one of those guys whose confidence outmatches his skills.

Just with better focus and confidence, Jr. Smith should/could improve considerably.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on December 14, 2019, 07:45:53 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 14, 2019, 02:25:36 AM
I'd prefer the 2 Losses.
<ducks>

Just 18 FT's combined.  Unusual.

I'm not completely against re-signing Morris.
A hard worker, some leadership skills. 
Note it was MaMo who called the player's meeting, not Randle.

3 outcomes:
trade Morris for some yute/picks
re-sign Morris
he walks in FA.

The latter is clearly a poor use of an asset.
Re-signing him could work out but means trying to rejig the team so Morris can settle in as a 2nd or 3rd option.  He's probably looking for a 4 year deal.  In his 30's.  Seems well-conditioned and a reasonably low injury risk.

Knix have to be listening to offers for Morris.
I'd like to get a promising yute or player and pick.

Does Morris even want to stay in NY (this year? for the future?).
Why would he?
We're a dysfunctional losing team that just fired it's coach while the front office is tottering.  I'd much rather get traded to a playoff team.  And I wouldn't re-sign in NY without a serious overpay.

Really I think we'd be doing Morris a solid getting him out of our morass.
 And getting him into the playoffs.  That's where you can really earn your next contract.  But winning is so much more fulfilling than losing.

Bottom Line:  I'd move Morris before he hits a slump.  A career 38% 3Pt shooter isn't going to continue to shoot 48% the rest of the season.  His value is never going to be higher.  And the sooner you trade him the more a playoff team gets out of him.  Since he's an ending contract.

Morris is one of those unusual late blooming NBA stars. Statistically and empirically he's been getting better for a number of years now. He really benefited from playing under Stevens in Boston.

IMO, the FO should -gasp- talk with him about the potential for sticking around.  I think he may have a good four solid, mature years in him.  If the contract is mildly front-loaded so that he's easier to trade as the contract goes, it might make good sense.

Any player this productive in NY has earned that consideration.  That said, of course, if an overwhelming trade proposal is made, its still a business but the Knicks need to build on success instead of trying to trade success for chances at elusive, superior lottery talent.

I can't say the same for Porter, Ellington, or Randle and certainly not DSJ. The caveat here is that Randle *has* looked more competent under Miller than Fizdale.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 14, 2019, 07:50:24 PM
So far Randle has looked better against weaker disjointed teams.

Morris with his toughness does seem a NY kind of player.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on December 14, 2019, 07:59:21 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 14, 2019, 04:02:28 PM
If we keep Miller and Frank gets to play all season with Payton, I expect we’ll feel very good about that extension when we have him for only 6 Mil next year. The bigger question is whether Dennis can be rehabilitated.

Fal and Bo,

I think DSJ is done as a Knick.  Its mostly a numbers game.  Payton and Frank, inconsistent as they can be, look to be the PGs who are kept on for a number of reasons, the most obvious being superior all round BBIQ and performance to DSJ based on this year's play.

The Knicks are looking to forge an identity and if that identity proves consistent with Coach Miller's reputation, the Knicks will be moving toward and implementing a much higher quality of defensive play.

Payton, Frank, and Allen all exemplify that quality.

Compounding that fact is the inevitability that trades and the lottery pipeline in the coming few years will provide ample opportunity to acquire yet another PG or two who, out-of-the-gate, will be more productive than *at least* DSJ.

Finally, you have to remember the Knicks are a basketball team that needs to start winning consistently.  DSJ isn't part of that chemistry equation. And, the Knicks are not a rehabilitation clinic that can lose game after game to nurse DSJ or anyone else's mystery ailments.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on December 14, 2019, 08:06:57 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 14, 2019, 07:50:24 PM
So far Randle has looked better against weaker disjointed teams.

Morris with his toughness does seem a NY kind of player.

Bo, personally i would move Randall in a NY minute regardless.

But in fairness to Randall, he has looked better.  And while I think Sacto AND GS are not as good as the Knicks, they have both played much better than the Knicks this season (I know - not hard to do).  But I think both teams are strongly coached, were playing with no onus on their backs, and were absolutely ferocious in not wanting to get beat by the Knicks.

IOW, Randall,  instead of being the heart-stopping, turnover, bumbling fool of a PF we are used to actually turned in respectable performances.  Small consolation being better than no consolation.

And, yeah, Morris has a nineties kind of stickiness as a Knick.  I hope he weathers the storm.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on December 14, 2019, 08:32:44 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 14, 2019, 07:31:42 PM
Well, Shroder is certainly available.
OKC has Shai-guy, their PG of the future.  CP3 and Shroder.
Right now Shai leads the Thunders in scoring (almost 19 per) which i didn't realize.
Shai, CP3 and Shroder are 3 of their top 4 scorers.
I doubt any team has ever had 3 PG's among their Top 4 scorers before.

Shroder just turned 26 to start the season.
Seems like he's been around forever.
This year, 3.4 assists to 2.6 turnovers.
He's a scorer with a weak 3 point shot (32.8%, just at his career average).
Shroder always seemed to me one of those guys whose confidence outmatches his skills.

Just with better focus and confidence, Jr. Smith should/could improve considerably.

There are a number of commodity PGs who could be had - Schroder being one.  But in my mind and to my taste, why waste our time  on  what amounts to be fairly pedestrian talent.

I'm warming to the idea of exploring trades for CP3.  Its a heavy lift and risky so the trade would have to really be self-insulating to some degree.  Something along the lines of Paul, Patton, and one of their coming first- rounders for Randall, Portis, and DSJ.

CP3 is a very expensive buy but may be exactly what the team needs to get through the next couple of years of maturity for Payton and Frank.  I don't imagine any summertime FAs migrating here in the next two summers and if CP3 gives the Knicks the boost they need I'd be very okay with that.

And because of his age this isn't a star-phuck trade IMO.  Just acknowledgement that NY can be home to superior basketball talent again.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 14, 2019, 08:46:38 PM
I’m good Rolling with Elfrid, Kadeem, and Frank and seeing what coach Miller can get from them.

If we do make a move it should be small for big. We always leave one or two guards on the bench and we always use all of our available bigs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 14, 2019, 10:57:45 PM
Today's Knicks hypothetical -

What if we had kept Hardaway out of the KP deal?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 14, 2019, 11:07:11 PM
Well, Shroder is certainly available.
OKC has Shai-guy, their PG of the future.  CP3 and Shroder.
Right now Shai leads the Thunders in scoring (almost 19 per) which i didn't realize.
Shai, CP3 and Shroder are 3 of their top 4 scorers.
I doubt any team has ever had 3 PG's among their Top 4 scorers before.


Alexander doesnt often man the point - and may be a 2 long term.  Gets 3 assists per, same as Steven Adams

Together the threesome play 96 minutes per game
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 14, 2019, 11:11:33 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 14, 2019, 10:57:45 PM
Today's Knicks hypothetical -

What if we had kept Hardaway out of the KP deal?

Precludes drafting RJ and developing Dotson moving forward. 

Who has more upside? 

What if we had signed Kyrie with Timmy's cap space + Lee's? 

What if not really applicable. 

Timmy is playing really well in Dallas, where he is not expected to be the bell cow as he was in NY, likewise KP, because of Doncic's dominance and leadership. 

So really, apples and oranges.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 14, 2019, 11:19:30 PM
Precludes drafting RJ and developing Dotson moving forward.


I still think Barrett is a 3. 

Likely we'd have not signed Morris if we had THJ.  I was just asking, off the strong Tim performance today.

Dont care about Dotson.   Or your boy Trier.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 14, 2019, 11:24:11 PM
Timmy is playing really well in Dallas.....


Don't wake up Bo...

Hardaway disappeared late in OT (I'll save Bo the time)

Real good game.  Liking MIA a lot.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 14, 2019, 11:29:22 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 14, 2019, 11:24:11 PM
Timmy is playing really well in Dallas.....


Don't wake up Bo...

Hardaway disappeared late in OT (I'll save Bo the time)

Real good game.  Liking MIA a lot.

Miami is really impressive.  Have developed some nice pups, like the Raptors. 

If ever there were a Pat Riley player, it is Jimmy Butler. 

You might be right about RJ as a 3. 

But you are seriously undervaluing Dotson.  He is a worker bee with a legit trey and defensive tenacity, which no one ever accused Timmy of. 

As per your Trier hard on, well...duly noted, but I think there is something to build on there. 

We shall see.  I suspect Coach Miller will give AT a long look, and that he is not as married to Ellington as Fizz was.  Hell, Trier could prove an enticing trading chip to the right team. 

I really want to see Kadeem Allen get some burn.  Let Frank and Dennis battle it out with him.  Older player, but still, his game is closer to that of Payton than that of Frank Farter or Dennis Without Menace.  We shall see.  The defense in the fourth quarter, and the bench play, offered a small glimmer of light.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 14, 2019, 11:30:54 PM
Depends on your definition of tenacity

But regardless - no - I don't really see Paul George in Dotson.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 14, 2019, 11:34:46 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 14, 2019, 11:30:54 PM
Depends on your definition of tenacity

But regardless - no - I don't really see Paul George in Dotson.

People keep undervaluing DD and writing him off, and no matter how many times he has been buried on the bench or out of the rotation or recovering from injury, when he gets his opportunities, HE IS READY. 

Paul George?  Heh. 

But a worker bee with considerable character.  And as for tenacity?  All of those DNPs and he still comes back to play when he sees daylight. 

That's how I define tenacity. 
Title: Knicks Come Back From Twenty Down
Post by: chipstern on December 15, 2019, 09:50:37 PM
TENACITY
Title: Yikes
Post by: chipstern on December 15, 2019, 10:13:56 PM
Close to 6 minutes without a basket to close out the 4th quarter.

Ah, me....
Title: Frank & Elfrid
Post by: chipstern on December 15, 2019, 10:17:49 PM
Splitting 48 minutes down the middle.

Combined 23-12-16
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 15, 2019, 10:30:17 PM
I really thought we’d get shellacked. We didn’t match their defensive intensity with intensity off the ball to get guys free late in the game. Until we do that, it’s going to be tough to score in those situations.

I found this effort, as ultimately disappointing as it was, as impressive as the work in the two wins.
Title: Re: Frank & Elfrid
Post by: FWK00 on December 15, 2019, 10:30:31 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 15, 2019, 10:17:49 PM
Splitting 48 minutes down the middle.

Combined 23-12-16

Tough loss but, for the most part, a much improved team.

Lower fouls

hitting FTs

fewer turnovers
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on December 15, 2019, 10:31:48 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 15, 2019, 10:30:17 PM
I really thought we’d get shellacked. We didn’t match their defensive intensity with intensity off the ball to get guys free late in the game. Until we do that, it’s going to be tough to score in those situations.

I found this effort, as ultimately disappointing as it was, as impressive as the work in the two wins.

And Miller has what?  Two or three practices under his belt?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 15, 2019, 10:58:52 PM
We’ve got some tough ones coming up. It would be nice if we would continue to show progress.
Title: PP Club
Post by: carlos123 on December 15, 2019, 11:02:39 PM
Disappointing as the last 6 minutes were, this team is playing MUCH better with coach Miller, just with in-game decisions. He hasn’t had a chance to practice otherwise. Impressive!

Hey Chip, now that we have a real coach, can I re-join de Positive Pussies Club?
Title: Re: Frank & Elfrid
Post by: lesterluv on December 15, 2019, 11:07:52 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 15, 2019, 10:17:49 PM
Splitting 48 minutes down the middle.

Combined 23-12-16

5 Steals. ZERO Turnovers.


*** didn't see the game, but seems like post-FIZ progress continuing apace.

***** where are all those six-fingered, 48-IQ having beeyatches talking about +'- this and can't play that...

Title: Since you didn't watch the game
Post by: Kam on December 15, 2019, 11:43:14 PM
Frank was a monster in the first half scoring 12 pts on 5 shots.

He was a different player and possibly concussed in the 2nd half.

He tried to take a charge and his head hit the hardwood.

Hope he's ok.  He showed heart before whatever happened and he faded.
Title: Progress
Post by: chipstern on December 16, 2019, 12:04:14 AM
Thanks for that stat, Dawg.

Significant.  Interesting short stretch when Miller played Frank and Elfrid together.

Remember when Don Nelson was shit canned and JVG took over, Dawg?

Knock on wood, but Miller, even with negligible practice time seems to have already had an impact on the culture.  Our defense in the third quarter was impressive.

Our offense in the fourth?

Let's see how our fourth quarter end game execution might benefit from a few practices.

As bad as Frank played of late, he was really plugged in tonight.  He and Elfrid seem to be having a very positive effect on each other.

PS: Kevin Knox showing some evolved tenacity and snarts on both offense and defense.  Mitchell playing more under control.  Julius hoisting up all of those treys makes me wince, but when playing to his strengths, PLAYED BIG, a real muscle forward.  Morris with an impressive run in the third quarter and seems to be having a nice cumulative I influence on Kevin. 

PPS: RJ?  Rough outing.  Be interesting to vector his bounce back.  I will be interested to see how Coach Miller helps Dennis get his groove  back
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 16, 2019, 01:20:54 AM
Elf had a near trip-dub in 25 mins, yet a near-team worst -14.

At least DEN didn't go nuts on 3's.
how's our perimeter D looking under Miller?

DEN hasnt been playing well.
How did Porter Jr. look?
He's a target of mine.
DEN could use MaMo for the playoffs.

Wil is back so Kurucs and Musa could be had.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 16, 2019, 02:27:27 AM
4 of our top 5 scorers are Bigs.
Knix need shooters.
As someone pointed out the other day Knix have drafted poor shooters recently: Franc, Knox, RJB.

RJB:
39% / 30% / 54%
Some low shooting splits there.   

5 games in OCT: 47 / 42 / 41   
13 games NOV : 32 / 39 / 56
7 games in DEC: 30 / 30 / 65

His shooting numbers have really dropped after a hot start.
He was billed as a non-shooter and it's proving true.
At least his FT% has improved to almost acceptable levels.
But those shooting numbers are worrisome.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 16, 2019, 02:54:48 AM
Porter looked good but he’s going to need to fill out some.

We didn’t particularly make it easy to get the threes they wanted but we didn’t actually stop them either. Their numbers were helped by kick outs after 50-50 balls they won.

Grant and Barton were too quick for our wings and we had no answer for The Joker.

I think we can go a long way to improve our shooting by working for and taking better shots, which is starting to happen.

With Porter, Grant, and Milsap who was out tonight, I think Denver might be set at PF.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 16, 2019, 03:04:46 AM
They could use Morris at SF.
I'd rather have Barton off the bench at either wing spot in a Craw/LouW microwave role.
I think they could use Morris' toughness and grit and physicality.
I think they have a solid team which won't go too far.

I thought Grant was a terrific pickup and thought he'd have more impact.  But Milsap has had a strong year, and Grant hasn't fit in as well as expected. 

I see DEN as a very deep team that should cash in some depth for more rotation quality.  Porter, Juancho, Beasley, Torrey Craig, Monte Morris are all quality bench guys who could be moved.
I'd take almost any two of them for Morris.  Porter the real prize, though he's akin to Knox.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 16, 2019, 10:14:18 AM
Quote from: Jack Straw on December 12, 2019, 11:50:07 PM


surprising to see plain vanilla platitudes about the notion that the NBA is stronger with a strong Knicks team

Simple thought experiment?

Do fans have a tendency to "tune out" when their team isn't good and has no chance of the playoffs?

I know i do.  In the NFL, unlike with the Knicks, I don't make sure I watch every second of every Giants game -- cuz they're no good.  If they were good i would spend more of my time and money on them.

Who has the most fans?

The Knicks are probably at least in the Top 5 of North American fan populations.


SO if you take all those fans and give them a reason to cheer, you have more people tuning in, and more people spending time and money on your product.
 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 16, 2019, 12:02:41 PM
Knicks 30th in FG%; 24th in 3=PT% & 30th in FT%

The gap between the Knicks league worst 67.9% FT and the next worst team is 4.7%.  4.7% better FT shootign would move the 2nd worst FT shooting team right about league average tied for 16th.

I never trust players who shoot FT's poorly.
There's usually something wrong with their shot mechanics and its indicative of being a bad shooter overall.  It also seem to be a fair proxy for confidence and focus and preparation.  These are guys you can't trust at the end of games.  And bad FT shooters will often shy away from contact at the rim.  It's a whole ball of crud.
And Knix larded with poor FT shooters ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 16, 2019, 01:33:26 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 16, 2019, 10:14:18 AM
Quote from: Jack Straw on December 12, 2019, 11:50:07 PM


surprising to see plain vanilla platitudes about the notion that the NBA is stronger with a strong Knicks team

Simple thought experiment?

Do fans have a tendency to "tune out" when their team isn't good and has no chance of the playoffs?

I know i do.  In the NFL, unlike with the Knicks, I don't make sure I watch every second of every Giants game -- cuz they're no good.  If they were good i would spend more of my time and money on them.

Depends. Last year I tuned out completely. There was nothing to watch. No progress. Abysmal coaching. Players with no future on the team eating minutes. No intention to win — if the team doesn't try, why should I? But did NOT tune out from NBA, plenty of great basketball to watch. Haven't tuned out from this year's model — though still won't stay up late for the second halves of those west coasters — there is stuff to see...was even in in late-period Fiz up till those last two games. Interesting team dynamics and some improvement. Knox fitfully getting better. Frank steadily getting better. New players with some game — at least Morris and of course RJ. Would surely have tuned out completely at some point, though, if Fiz hadn't met the fate he so richly deserved. NOTE: I am largely an anomaly amongst my crew — and they are basketball folks, mind you, players and aficionados & knick fans — they have tuned out completely and definitely won't be tuning back in any time soon.

Quote from: Kam on December 16, 2019, 10:14:18 AM

Who has the most fans?

The Knicks are probably at least in the Top 5 of North American fan populations.


SO if you take all those fans and give them a reason to cheer, you have more people tuning in, and more people spending time and money on your product.

Back in the old days, maybe it mattered. When Knicks were maybe 10% of North American TV market. Now, we are quite reduced part of a global market. Maybe 1% of the whole. And all players and all teams available all the time no matter where you live. A strong Knick team really doesn't mean big doo doo to the NBA's success.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 16, 2019, 02:00:08 PM
1% of the fans starting to SPEND ON things like:
jerseys,other team merchandise and gear and licensed products,
league pass subscriptions, more media spend in the NY market

When you're trying to grow your business by mere percentage points every year

IS significant
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 16, 2019, 02:05:15 PM
All true, no doubt, another percent is nice, but league success is no longer seriously impacted in any way by our success. You'd best believe, if it was, that somebody would have done something sometime in the last 20 years.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 16, 2019, 03:09:17 PM
http://knickerblogger.net/new-york-knicks-105-denver-nuggets-111-millers-first-five-games-recap/ (http://knickerblogger.net/new-york-knicks-105-denver-nuggets-111-millers-first-five-games-recap/)

Shows some Fizz-Miller splits so far.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 16, 2019, 04:19:35 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 16, 2019, 03:09:17 PM
http://knickerblogger.net/new-york-knicks-105-denver-nuggets-111-millers-first-five-games-recap/ (http://knickerblogger.net/new-york-knicks-105-denver-nuggets-111-millers-first-five-games-recap/)

Shows some Fizz-Miller splits so far.


Quote
Frank’s been a smoldering pile of manure under Miller until last night, but I wouldn’t read too much into that if we’re evaluating Miller’s performance. Frank just suffered some sort of mental breakdown that also coincided with the re-emergence of Elfrid Payton (and that could have worsened Frank’s already brittle confidence). Anyway last night Frank played great, even dunking on a fastbreak and emoting plenty after that. He’s still kind of a bust, but I can’t, I can’t, I won’t stop rooting for him. It’s like a doomed crush. You know you need to stay away from that, but you can’t. That’s how I feel about Frank. I know I’ll be let down, but I’ll revel in every spark of passion from now until my heart bursts in a firework of thorns.

How i feel about Frank too. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 16, 2019, 04:39:17 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 16, 2019, 04:19:35 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 16, 2019, 03:09:17 PM
http://knickerblogger.net/new-york-knicks-105-denver-nuggets-111-millers-first-five-games-recap/ (http://knickerblogger.net/new-york-knicks-105-denver-nuggets-111-millers-first-five-games-recap/)

Shows some Fizz-Miller splits so far.


Quote
Frank’s been a smoldering pile of manure under Miller until last night, but I wouldn’t read too much into that if we’re evaluating Miller’s performance. Frank just suffered some sort of mental breakdown that also coincided with the re-emergence of Elfrid Payton (and that could have worsened Frank’s already brittle confidence). Anyway last night Frank played great, even dunking on a fastbreak and emoting plenty after that. He’s still kind of a bust, but I can’t, I can’t, I won’t stop rooting for him. It’s like a doomed crush. You know you need to stay away from that, but you can’t. That’s how I feel about Frank. I know I’ll be let down, but I’ll revel in every spark of passion from now until my heart bursts in a firework of thorns.

How i feel about Frank too.

Ditto. 

Last night the heart won out, and he was exceptionally competitive. 

Alas, oft times he overthinks things and his entire physical and mental edifice freezes. 

Again, I believe the current competitive platoon with Payton is doing them both some good.  Too early to give up on French Frank.  Nor on Dennis. 

PS: Frank made a wonderful shovel pass in the paint last night that had a certain AUDACITY and PURPOSE, and deserved to be a highlight film assist, alas, the target (forget who) could not convert. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 16, 2019, 05:26:45 PM
Frank looks worlds better now the offense has a purpose, the PG has a role, and 3 or 4 guys aren’t standing around in the paint all possession. I’d still give it five more games or so before a system is more fully established.

RJ May need Payton’s help and Frank may look better with Payton and Dot so I think it’s possible that Miller looks at swapping the order of the PGs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 16, 2019, 05:32:35 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on December 16, 2019, 02:05:15 PM
All true, no doubt, another percent is nice, but league success is no longer seriously impacted in any way by our success. You'd best believe, if it was, that somebody would have done something sometime in the last 20 years.

They did.  The NBA did an intervention and foisted Donnie Walsh on Dolan in an attempt to stabilize the Knix franchise and get the Knix competitive.

If the Knix were the Yankees of the NBA, and lived up to their pedigree, and everybody wore their hats and junk, it would boost the NBA well beyond 1%.  Though even 1% of a trillion is almost real money ...

As for the Knix, I've been advocating two-way players and defenders for ever.  Now my next main push is shooters.
Get some guys with a deadly stroke.  Hell, another year of clanking and I'll be missing Tim Jr. . . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 16, 2019, 08:11:36 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 16, 2019, 03:04:46 AM
They could use Morris at SF.
I'd rather have Barton off the bench at either wing spot in a Craw/LouW microwave role.
I think they could use Morris' toughness and grit and physicality.
I think they have a solid team which won't go too far.

I thought Grant was a terrific pickup and thought he'd have more impact.  But Milsap has had a strong year, and Grant hasn't fit in as well as expected. 

I see DEN as a very deep team that should cash in some depth for more rotation quality.  Porter, Juancho, Beasley, Torrey Craig, Monte Morris are all quality bench guys who could be moved.
I'd take almost any two of them for Morris.  Porter the real prize, though he's akin to Knox.

They are not dealing Michael Porter
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 16, 2019, 10:10:59 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 16, 2019, 08:11:36 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 16, 2019, 03:04:46 AM
They could use Morris at SF.
I'd rather have Barton off the bench at either wing spot in a Craw/LouW microwave role.
I think they could use Morris' toughness and grit and physicality.
I think they have a solid team which won't go too far.

I thought Grant was a terrific pickup and thought he'd have more impact.  But Milsap has had a strong year, and Grant hasn't fit in as well as expected. 

I see DEN as a very deep team that should cash in some depth for more rotation quality.  Porter, Juancho, Beasley, Torrey Craig, Monte Morris are all quality bench guys who could be moved.
I'd take almost any two of them for Morris.  Porter the real prize, though he's akin to Knox.

They are not dealing Michael Porter

Got THAT right. 

We chose Knox at what, #9? 

Denver chose Porter at #14. 

If we'd had the patience to eat a year while he rehabbed his back, well, who knows. 

Does he have more upside than Knox?  Perhaps he is more athletic, a more fluid shooter, but Knox is progressing, and has a year of miscues and brain farts behind him.

Denver can afford to nurture him, what with a veteran big such as Milsap still rolling along, and a 25 year old Grant in the mix. 

I find Porter Trade Projections LAUGHABLE.  Denver did not spend the #14 pick in the draft on someone who if healthy might have been a top 3 pick, to trade him for a bag of magic beans.  They think long term that they have something special, and they may be right. 

MEANWHILE.

Dallas without Luca, leading Milwaukee going into the final six.  KP with 26-10-4, the Freak with 41, and good old Timmy, doing his Mister Consistency Thang, 1-10 with 4 TOs in 24 minutes.  Feast or Famine, our hero. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 16, 2019, 10:40:16 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 16, 2019, 05:26:45 PM
Frank looks worlds better now the offense has a purpose, the PG has a role, and 3 or 4 guys aren’t standing around in the paint all possession. I’d still give it five more games or so before a system is more fully established.

Worlds better? Jesus, it was one game. Just one game.

Frank scored 2 points in each of the four (4) previous games before that (since Miller took over). In that same span, he had 6 assists and 6 turnovers.

Yeah, let's hope he can stretch his last effort into two games. Or three. That's what we want.

But take it easy with the notion that our Frenchman has finally taken the great leap.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 16, 2019, 10:46:18 PM
Quote from: elephant on December 16, 2019, 10:40:16 PM
take it easy with the notion that our Frenchman has finally taken the great leap.

There was another game earlier in the year that Frank played well and everyone breathed a sigh of relief that we finally had our PG and Frank had finally figured it out.

Give Frank 3 more years and yeah he may get there.

What will he want as a Free agent?

What is Frank worth to the Frank fans?

10mil per year?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 16, 2019, 11:08:49 PM
3 years my ass, y'all so fucking stupid.

Nobody saying that anybody has taken any great leap. 40 more starts will do just fine to see where he's at before you got to give him 10 million bucks.

A couple bad outings in first three games of the third coach he's had in three years and the hippos went berserk.

Just let 'em play and stop saying stupid (scripted) shit every time somebody has a bad half. Or a good half.

Where's DJr the pure shooter..(still laughing my ass off over that stupidity). Where's Elfrid Frazier?...Where's Superman?

Looks like coach has things under control.

Now the front office on the other hand....

*** just watched Mavs end Bucks streak w/o Luka. Freaky as it gets. Fun. Two KP threes, the second from outskirts of the Bucks' center court logo, break Bucks back with 4 and change to go and gives Mavs a 15 point lead.

Budenholzer pulls Giannis. Carlyle pulls his guys. Then Bucks subs almost bring Bucks back. In comes Giannis with like 12 seconds left, scores 6 points in like 3 seconds. Timmy Jr. who has gone 1-10 has to take a lot of free throws. Now in comes Porzingis. A Porzingis block (not on Greek) basically puts an end to what would have become a furthering of a legend performance ala Reggie Miller vs. us.

We got what pile of shit for KP?


We hired what piece of shit instead of Budenholzer?


***DJr couldn't play for this Carlyle? Doesn't deserve to play in this league.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 16, 2019, 11:56:45 PM
That's the problem with Tim Jr.  Consistency.
Kiid thought I'd quibble over OT the other day, but Hardaway played a strong game, shot lights out, gave his team a chance to W.  All you can ask.  But then comes back with almost as many turnovers as points in a 1-10 clunker.  Which is why I see him best as a bench guy where you can let him gun and gauge if he's got it that night or not.  (yes starting Tim has worked and I assume Carlisle will stick with it)

For most of this year, Tim has had 4 or 5 stinkers followed by 4 or 5 hot-shooting strong games.  Last 4 its hot-cold-hot-cold.

Brunson has had a nice year.  Got the start with Doncic out.
Scurry 1.0 has been coming on.  I kind of forgot they had Delon Wright.  Surprised he's already 27.  Another inconsistent feller.

Looks like a pretty strong game from KZ.
I thought he was coming back after 30 days ... (?)

DAL has a tough schedule with Luka out.
But off to a good start.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 17, 2019, 09:19:53 AM
Mavericks 12-3 last 15 - including wins over Bucks, Lakers, Raptors and Rockets.

All 3 losses at home (Clippers, Heat, Kings)

Hardaway 45/39/87 during the run

Porzingis  40/32/73
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 17, 2019, 10:38:05 AM
Hardaway = reasonable averages, horrible consistency.
Extreme streakiness. Reliability is important, especially in the playoffs.

Tim Jr in December (last 8 games):
42.2% FG / 31.7 on 3's /  84.6FT (just 1.6 FTA's per)

First 4 games in DEC, Tim went 4-24 on 3's.  Ouch.
Followed that with a 9-12 scorching.
Next game 0-5; then 6-14, and another 0-5.

That's 19/60 on 3's.  But just 2 good shooting games and 6 clunkers.
Title: A Shooter On The Way?
Post by: chipstern on December 17, 2019, 02:25:43 PM
Marc J. Spears: Knicks say Reggie Bullock (cervical surgery) has been cleared for full participation in practice, beginning tomorrow. – via Twitter MarcJSpearsESPN

A career .392 3-pt shooter. 

And a .828 FT Shooter, but does not get to the line very much. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 17, 2019, 04:09:25 PM
Tim Hardaway.
7th season.
400+ games. 200 starts.
3 point % under Carlyle finally, for first season since, back up to what it was his rookie year under Woodson.
We can safely say he is what he is.

*** and that's what Bo sez he is.

**** and Bullock is what Chip sez he is. Welcome.




Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 17, 2019, 07:26:19 PM
KNICKS FAVORED BY 2.

AT HOME

vs a 6 win team!

Lock of the year.

Over 220 was also a nice bet - but its up to 225 already.
Title: Re: A Shooter On The Way?
Post by: luee on December 17, 2019, 08:03:01 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 17, 2019, 02:25:43 PM
Marc J. Spears: Knicks say Reggie Bullock (cervical surgery) has been cleared for full participation in practice, beginning tomorrow. – via Twitter MarcJSpearsESPN

A career .392 3-pt shooter. 

And a .828 FT Shooter, but does not get to the line very much.

A 6.8 ppg lifetime scorer. The type of bench drek Mills effortlessly tosses bucks at. Just cannot sell knix to many worthwhile players. Possibly  worst FA recruiter in league.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 17, 2019, 10:04:15 PM
That was a fun romp over a true JV team. Most points in 39 years in Half-man-half-amzing’s last game at the Garden.

I think what we saw tonight fit the vision of the team that the Princeton Mafia was trying to put together. Let’s stick with this coach, please.

The Hawks will be better with Collins back, but not much better.

If we keep playing like this we may have suitors for our players but may not be in any mood to sell.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 17, 2019, 10:09:16 PM
Sometimes we really get a glimpse of how a team — hopefully it's us — can learn to use Robinson's unique talents.

The potential is huge.

Title: MVP
Post by: carlos123 on December 17, 2019, 10:34:40 PM
What a difference a coach makes!

MIKE MILLER MVP!!!

🏀🥇🎯
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 17, 2019, 11:05:20 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 17, 2019, 07:26:19 PM
KNICKS FAVORED BY 2.

AT HOME

vs a 6 win team!

Lock of the year.

Over 220 was also a nice bet - but its up to 225 already.

Smaaaaarter than the average bear...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 17, 2019, 11:44:52 PM
And when was the last time Barrett had two really good halves in one game. That's new, no?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 18, 2019, 05:13:14 AM
The Hawks are really bad. Bucks and Heat not so much.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Pharoah on December 18, 2019, 11:05:36 AM
Savor this feeling Knick fans, the New York Knicks completed an end to end blow out of the Hawks 143-120 with a barrage of Mitchell Robinson alley-oop dunks that gave New York its highest scoring effort in regulation since 1980. This wasn't just a nice win, this was a wrecking ball against a coke can. Whether it was more Atlanta's struggling unit or the Knicks downhill focused offense, the team really needed a night like this. When I say that everything worked, I really mean that. The Knicks scored 30 or more in every quarter, shooting 56% from the field. They tallied 30 assists and won the rebounding battle by 19 boards. I'm about to sing everyone's praises, strap in, we're going for a rare joy ride in Knicksland!

Frank: It was a strange night for Frank Ntilikina in that I liked a lot of what I saw, but there was plenty to critique as well. Frank played fast and loose for most of the game, knocking down a three to open the game and completing some very nice assists off deep dribble penetration collapsing defenders. But whenever he let up even a little, he was throwing risky passes too early in the possession. So while DSJ and Elfrid Payton took over the offense, Frank sort of set up an offense by committee. This game would be the perfect example to point to for people who feel Frank's not a PG, but then again...what Frank was doing was working. The Knicks (sort of) big-three of Randle, Morris and Barrett were BALLING and the French Prince kept them well fed.

There were two positive aspects to Frank's somewhat passive offensive display. First is that when the Ntilikina did choose to attack off the dribble, he made solid trips into the paint. There was a beautiful pick and roll feed to Julius Randle that really stands out. The other bit is that Frank had good energy for the defensive end, where Trae Young ran the Knicks' best perimeter defender into an array of screens virtually every time down. Ntilikina didn't stop Young by any means, but he did manage to contain the three ball by chasing over screens and running Young off of the line. This left Trae Young floaters as his best option and he made plenty of them, but it at least kept the field goals to 2 pointers for most of Ntilikina's time out there (a real contrast with the other PG's).

Frank put up 3 points, 3 assists, 3 rebounds and 2 TO's in 18 minutes. Nothing to write home about but paired with a low-key impressive defensive performance and the offensive output of everyone else, it was a better game than those numbers suggest. He does need to be smarter with his passes when he's looking to let others orchestrate, getting the ball moving quickly but there's a difference between being quick and rushing.

Barrett: I'm greedy enough to admit that I was a little disappointed...that RJ Barrett missed his first 30 point game by 3 points. Let's not mince words, Barrett's had a tough stretch of games leading into this one but with flashes of life. Against the Hawks, the Duke alumni found his jumper, knocking down 2/3 three pointers and a number of midrange pull-ups. When those shots fall, the Knicks top-3 pick becomes virtually unstoppable. On the night, RJ produced 27 points, 1 assist, 6 boards and a steal off of 10/13 shooting and 5/8 from the free throw line (plus those three's). The kid's not 20 years old and he just put up 27 points on more than 2 points per attempt.

The biggest value that RJ Barrett brings is consistently covering for the Knicks in multiple areas even when he doesn't score. This game was no different with good defense and rebounding helping to craft a complete contribution that went well beyond scoring. When you add in the jumper falling though, that's when RJ Barrett really looks like the guy we should build around. He's forceful on drives with the power to finish through bigger defenders thanks to great lefty finishing and solid right handed work too, which is better than I'd expected. He's also a threat to make the next pass, creating a pick your poison situation. He's one of a handful of young guys that really needed a night like this, hopefully he can build on it...Miami will be tough though.

Morris: So while RJ Barrett was the top scorer, Marcus Morris managed to not take any steps back from being the consistent scoring threat we've relied on all year. Mook also broke the 20 points mark on ridiculous efficiency even when he took tougher shots. Morris put up 22 points, 2 assists and 4 boards on 6/11 shooting, 3/5 from three and 7/7 from the free throw line. He was elusive enough to draw fouls, on fire with the jump shot and happy to pull the trigger whenever the Hawks gave him an inch. But since Mook has done this with some consistency, I'll keep moving right along and just add one more hot take. If the Knicks kept him and turned down a super late first round pick like the Clippers are allegedly offering, I wouldn't be mad.

Randle: Julius Randle only needed 23 minutes to put up a very nice double-double. I actually found the awful shot selection he had on 2 of his first 3 shots a bit endearing to be honest. Randle was back at the Garden after his best stretch of play all season and he wanted to show what he'd found...that led to an ugly circus lay-up and a bad decision on a three ball. But he settled in from there and gave the Knicks a really nice and controlled performance. Randle put up 17 points, 11 boards and 2 assists on 7/15 from the field and 3/4 from the free throw line.

The numbers aren't far off from a typical night with Randle. The assists are down a smidgeon but the efficiency is up to replace those. That's because the Knicks big free agent addition played a smart game for most of the night. What I mean is that he picked his spots. When Randle saw Vince Carter in the post, he took advantage of the strength difference and finished inside. When Randle saw the floor leaning in his direction, he'd swing it up top and fairly often follow the pass to set a screen. This led to a number of athletic finishes as the roll man...something that I have been begging to see more of all damned season! Decision making has held Randle back and frustrated a lot of the fanbase, it's worth noting that the decision making has shown marked growth during the West Coast journey and now in the return home.

Taj: It's the same story, different day with Taj Gibson and that's a good thing. Gibson played 19 minutes and posted 2 points, 3 boards and 3 assists. He ran into some trouble giving too much space to Young in situations where he'd drop in coverage, but that's gonna happen when the ball handler can sink floaters from the free throw line extended even. Other than that, it was the solid workman-like performance that we count on from Gibson.

Payton: With two quick lay-ups, Elfrid Payton started off his run looking like he'd be eating offensively and then shifted gears by reeling off a ton of assists as a playmaker and orchestrator instead. Payton lost a ton of his first half to foul trouble and it took a successful challenge to avoid his third foul in rapid succession. But as long as Payton was out there, he was a maestro. The Knicks' most experienced PG put up 5 points and 9 assists on 2/7 shooting with another 0 turnover game. He's put up 24 assists to 0 turnovers in the past three games.

The gap between Payton and the other young PG's as playmakers has never been more clear. Payton seems the least likely to make teams pay from space, but his ability to get deep into a defense without losing the rock means that he's still able to craft strong possessions.
The 2/7 from the field does show off his glaring weakness, but with his playmaking at such a high level...we can live with a couple of missed bunnies and a couple of missed jumpers. He just can't afford to slip up as a playmaker on nights he's not scoring...it's like Frank with the defense. You can make up for low scoring by being elite someplace else and Payton has started to look like a great table setter, sometimes even better.

DSJ: This was the type of game that Dennis Smith Jr desperately needed. With Elfrid Payton in foul trouble and Frank having one foul already, Mike Miller gave DSJ a look and the young PG responded with his best quarter of the season (and there have been other strong ones). Smith had a spectacular 1st quarter followed by solid play throughout the rest of the game but with a bit of a "back to Earth" feel to it. On the night DSJ put up 8 points, 5 assists and 5 rebounds in just 13 minutes. He still has decision making issues though, with 3 TO's on the night, but that's a lot more acceptable when he's loading up on points and assists at the same time.

The other thing I liked about Smith's play was his defensive effort. That's not to say he played great defense, it's easy to spot the holes in his defensive game when Smith is following Ntilikina and Payton. But Smith had a beauty of a block on one of Young's drives and also showed good effort in rotations and help defense. He HAS to give NY that kind of effort on defense to make up for his shortcomings on that end. That will make him a much more viable option. You want Smith as a viable option because when he gets hot, you'll have times like the first quarter takeover. He also hit 1/2 three pointers which is always nice to see.

Dot: It was nice to see Damyean Dotson bounce back from the struggles in his prior game. Dot was on the same page as his bigs in this one and able to stay out there to be the productive all around contributor we know. Dotson put up 9 points, 1 assist and 1 rebound in 24 minutes on 3/6 shooting, 1/3 from three and 2 made free throws. It's nice that on a night where Dot didn't seem to quite have his three ball, he was able to knock down a midrange shot and drive for an and-one finish. His scoring has had to become less reliant on the three ball after a lost offseason to shoulder surgery, but that may end up being a good thing.

Knox: This was a night that started out with Kevin Knox looking like he'd left his motor somewhere on the West Coast. But after a timeout off of some patented Knox laziness, the sophomore responded with a first half dunk and then an inspired second half. The youngster seems to lock in more and more as he see the ball go through the hoop and Mike Miller did a great job calling a few plays that got Knox good looks. What's more, when Kev didn't have the space to shoot, he was patient enough to dribble and attack which led to a couple of athletic dunks.

Knox posted 17 points, 2 boards, 2 assists, 3 steals, a block and a turnover in 24 minutes. He was another efficient player too, going 7/14 on the night and 3/9 from the three point line. The multiple three's has become common. The momentum drives into monstrous dunks have happened in consecutive games now. That's also true of the defensive tallies, Knox was in passing lanes and blocking shots. He's had a few highlight blocks in short succession (I touched on this in my last recap). His rotations and awareness off the ball are showing signs of growth that we have not seen up until this point.

One last bit...the two assists were alley-oops to Mitch. He had a quick catch and release alley to Mitch as the waning moments of the game that was just beautiful. He could have caught it and taken a solid attempt close to the basket but instead fed Mitch for a guaranteed two. It's the type of pass that you want to see, a selfless play that smacks of better vision than we'd credited him with all of last season.

Bobby: It's starting to feel like Bobby Portis is settled into his role. Portis played 21 minutes and put up 11 and 7 on 4/7 shooting and 2/4 from three. Portis also clocked a pair of assists which is always a welcome sight. We know Bobby's flaws but he has reined them in lately. The forced shots are happening a lot less, the turnovers are down with less isolation series and his defensive effort is there even if his lateral movement is weak. You won't catch Bobby Portis lacking effort, he'll always hustle and I appreciate that.

Mitch: Am I making too much of a hot stretch for Mitchell Robinson? I'm not sure, but I'm battling with the idea that I want Mitch to start but I also don't want to change much when he's rolling like he has. Either way, this dilemma is thanks to yet another stellar performance from the sophomore center, his best scoring effort yet. Mitch was a harbinger of chaos for the Hawks and an anchor for the Knicks. The big man put up 22 points, 13 boards, 1 steal and 2 blocks in 29 minutes with 4 fouls. The fouling is down, scoring up and the defensive presence stays impressive right now.

How has Robinson turned the corner this season? Part of it is being more disciplined with his hands and when he challenges shooters. Mitch isn't lunging into his challenges and that trims the fouls whether he's facing a pump fake or a dribble drive. Miller implements more screening which has put Robinson into his favorite position as the roll man more often too. The Knicks guards are all connecting with Mitch on lobs out of the screen attacks and even Knox has gotten in on the fun. So Mitch is out there more, rolling more and the ball handlers are finding him more...let's keep him with the second unit while the team is running hot and as long as he's still able to push 30 minutes on nights when he's going strong and low on fouls.

Miller: This marks Coach Mike Miller's third win with the Knicks, albeit two have come against really weak opponents. But the nature of this win is something we Knicks fans have rarely seen. The Knicks got off to a big lead which has happened before, but this time they didn't let up. Miller made sure that they continued to be aggressive all night, embodied most of all by taking a time out after a lazy defensive set helped the Hawks cut the lead...to 29. The coach called time out, made a couple of substitutions and then challenged the next foul call. You couldn't ask for a clearer message to the players.

How much of the recent success do we credit to Miller as opposed to playing the Warriors and Hawks? Payton coming back and stabilizing some things? Mitch cutting back on fouls? I'm not sure and time will be the only thing that helps clarify, but right now Miller is running hot. It's like stepping in a casino and hitting every bet for a spell. Miller's making choices and they just keep working out. Dennis Smith got his shot last night after struggles that left many fans giving up on him...and Dennis Smith responded. The execution out of timeouts has been too efficient to be sustainable to be honest. There's a bit of luck mixed in with the good decision making for sure.

So where are we with Miller? Approaching a massive test and a very tough stretch. But approaching with 3 wins that were much needed. With young guys finding their confidence for the first time in a long time. And with a team that has played inspired ball lately. None of that is definitively on Miller, Fizdale getting fired may be the spark in and of itself. But this has been a fun stretch of ball amid a mostly torturous season and I'll take that. If the Knicks can continue the trend when things get tougher then Miller may be the coach most fans never knew they wanted...and idgaf how you slice it, he's already better than Mark Jackson!
Title: Pharoah
Post by: chipstern on December 18, 2019, 12:35:56 PM
DVR'd the game, so only caught a bit of the fourth quarter. 

Another trenchant analysis. 

Seeing what's coming up, Heat and Bucks...yikes.  Tough match-ups to put i mildly. 

Liking what I'm seeing from Miller...including his decidedly anti-JVG 11 man rotations; his prep coming out of time outs; the manner in which he is keeping players out of the rotation involved...what little I saw of the fourth quarter, caught one of Smith's turnovers, but I also observed that his MOTOR was really revving like the young PG we saw last season before his back betrayed him.  Like the manner in which Miller seemingly kept him engaged, and how motivated DJ was when Coach gave him daylight. 

Be interesting to see how Coach balances our PG triumvirate, but so far, so good.  Progress from all three, though what is most impressive to me, is the downward trend of turnovers, praise Elfrid for his good example.  Better defense, better ball movement and screening, leading to better looks and more positive decision making.  Again, Heat and Bucks promising a merciless reality check, but for the moment, the worst of the bleeding has abated.  Wins are nice, to be sure...but really glad to see our knuckleheads having FUN and pulling for each other.  Much work to be done. 

Will be interested to see if, when and how Miller deploys Bullock and Ellington when healthy, and Trier when ready. 

PS: Fuck the Clippers and their late first rounder...and fuck Moe Harkless while we are at it.  I like MM's game, his consistency, his snark, and the influence he is having on Knox.  Another name I have seen floated, 26 year old Dennis Schroeder, an intriguing talent, but seems like more of a scoring guard than a pure point, and a tiny one at that.  Not dismissing his talent, but it would seem to me that Dennis Smith is five years younger, and has the potential to evolve into something akin to Schroe, even better perhaps when he develops his defensive potential and gains consistency.  Think we should eschew a new DS in favor of developing the one we already have.  Not to mention we already have Elfrid, Frank, Dennis AND Kadeem Allen.   

PPS: Yes Carlos, time to weaponize your pussy, but keep your Inner Merciless at hand. 

PPPS: FUCK MARK JACKSON, already.  We don't need a Star Coach.  We need a Coach COACH.  Miller so far seems to have the team's ear and does not draw attention to himself.  Anyway, too soon to draw absolute conclusions, but liking what I've seen so far.   

PPPPS: Elfrid FUCKING Payton. 

PPPPPS: RJ.  Again, for all his up and downs, one always has the sense that he will not linger on his fuck-ups, but will ALWAYS come back with something positive, ALWAYS focused on improving.  I gather he was really commanding last night.  Looking forward to watching for myself.  Kid is a winner. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 18, 2019, 02:59:05 PM
David Blatt is now a Knicks basketball operations consultant. Adding to the brain trust, I hope, and not as a sword over Miller’s head.

Wolves reportedly interested in Dennis Smith Jr..
Title: Re: Pharoah
Post by: Pharoah on December 18, 2019, 02:59:26 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 18, 2019, 12:35:56 PM
 

PPPS: FUCK MARK JACKSON, already.  We don't need a Star Coach.  We need a Coach COACH.  Miller so far seems to have the team's ear and does not draw attention to himself.  Anyway, too soon to draw absolute conclusions, but liking what I've seen so far.   

 

Right on Chip. I think a big factor in the early jumps to conclusion that Miller is a good coach relate directly to the fact that he's utilizing player much more how a lot of us had hoped. Randle is getting the ball in the right places and his decision making suddenly looks less egregious (still flawed but not game breaking). Mitch isn't caught up in mismatches that lead to touch fouls on ball handlers any more. Players are cutting more, Knox was getting plays called for him that helped get him locked into the game (fam, you can find me begging for this in a gang of recaps from last season).

This could all flop, but it just looks a lot more like the approach that always made sense to me (and plenty of others). So now instead of "this is how I'd like to see him utilized," I get to go with "this is how I'd like to see him grow." For me, win or lose, that makes a world of a difference. Is Miller the answer for us? Way too soon to say imo. Is he a godsend because I was trying to force out recaps with a near unwatchable product that nobody really cared about any more anyway? HELL YES!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 18, 2019, 05:21:16 PM
Blatt is no sword. Has been diagnosed with MS and says Olymicacos was the last HC job for him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 19, 2019, 12:01:26 AM
You're right.  But how to read this?
Mills just doing a solid for a friend in trouble -- probably at least several hundred thou for doing little.  That'll cover medical expenses courtesy of NY Knix.

But Mills is a long time infighter and survivor.  Is he just trying to show he is still in charge and can make moves?   Is he trying to isolate or otherwise drop the blame on Perry?  This is MSG and Mills is a vet at corporate intrigue.  So I wouldn't put it down to just an innocent exec hire, especially given the coach-fired-front-office-hot-seat context.

Trades the next thing Mills can impact . . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 19, 2019, 01:54:08 AM
Miller + Blatt = 2 guys who know basketball, full stop.

Jake Layman for D Smith works straight up, if we want to make a move w Minnesota.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 19, 2019, 04:09:19 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 19, 2019, 01:54:08 AM
Miller + Blatt = 2 guys who know basketball, full stop.

Jake Layman for D Smith works straight up, if we want to make a move w Minnesota.

Get

A

Grip
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 19, 2019, 08:54:26 AM
Imagining KP playing alongside Mitch Robinson, presenting one heck of a dual-shot blocking lane barrier — and opening up our lane on offense — a wee, wee bit like what-iffing the BK-Ewing pairing we were denied 30 years earlier. Carlyle using KP way differently than we were..at least at this stage of his comeback.

A poor rebounder in his first three seasons in the NBA, Porzingis is averaging a career-high nine boards per game, and he’s allowing opposing players to shoot just 47.4 percent at the rim, 2.6 points lower than back-to-back Defensive Player of the Year Rudy Gobert.

More important than how much Porzingis is scoring is where he’s scoring from. Porzingis is attempting a career-high 6.1 3s per game. He’s creating more room on the floor for his teammates while cutting in half the percentage of his offense that comes from the dreaded long 2-point range. He has gone from featured option to role player. Porzingis is averaging the fewest number of touches (53.9 per game) and the lowest average time of possession (1.4 per game) of his career. ......


 Porzingis is a totally different player than he was with the Knicks. Instead of running the offense through him in the post and using his length to attack mismatches, the Mavs have turned their star big man into a 7-foot-3 shooting guard.

:


https://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/12/18/21027309/kristaps-porzingis-dallas-mavericks-luka-doncic
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 19, 2019, 09:48:16 AM
Smith and Portis for Teague and a #2.

Get a  look at Teague, see if he fits what we want to do next year.

Scalps 6 mil off next year's payroll if we dont keep him.  And the #2 might be 40-44ish - noit too bad.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 19, 2019, 09:54:03 AM
Love the cherry pick off 25 games vs Rudy

A poor rebounder in his first three seasons in the NBA, Porzingis is averaging a career-high nine boards per game, and he’s allowing opposing players to shoot just 47.4 percent at the rim, 2.6 points lower than back-to-back Defensive Player of the Year Rudy Gobert.


But sure - KP seems to be boarding well with that group.   It would make sense.  Made a great move for a jam last night, one of several in the contest.  Seems happy.  And is playoff bound.  Can this be a two way street of happiness?  Should have kept Jordan - Gotta nail those picks.  And/or turn Smith into something
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 19, 2019, 10:41:50 AM
Should have waited and made a better trade.
As in get at least one starter long-term.

Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 19, 2019, 09:48:16 AM
Smith and Portis for Teague and a #2.
Get a  look at Teague, see if he fits what we want to do next year.
Scalps 6 mil off next year's payroll if we dont keep him.  And the #2 might be 40-44ish - noit too bad.

Hmm.  Best I came up with was Jr. Smith and Portis for Dieng and a 1st.  We'd be taking on Dieng's next year salary, so I wouldn't allow too much protection on that pick.  Maybe just not Top 5 in next year's draft.

Teague has never been that good and now he's old and not that good.  But I can't imagine MINNy wants to start Smith Jr. this year.  I assume they'd want to keep Teague and develop Smith as the backup PG. 

They've been doing a poor job building around KAT.   Covington was a great pickup.  Okogie an intriguing scrapper.  The rest of the team is pretty dang uninspired.  They wildly overpaid Wiggins, and he started off pretty hot this year.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 19, 2019, 11:08:30 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on December 19, 2019, 08:54:26 AM
Imagining KP playing alongside Mitch Robinson, presenting one heck of a dual-shot blocking lane barrier — and opening up our lane on offense — a wee, wee bit like what-iffing the BK-Ewing pairing we were denied 30 years earlier. Carlyle using KP way differently than we were..at least at this stage of his comeback.

Summer of '87, I was down in DC for a weekend, and I had dinner with my childhood sweetheart and a friend from high school.  The friend lived in Silver Spring, MD and chose a Jamaican restaurant there.  Halfway through our meal, Patrick Ewing walks in and stands around the counter waiting for them to get his enormous take out order together. 

I thought of going over and saying, "Hey Patrick, how's Bernard doing?  You guys are gonna kill it this year."  But I didn't bother him.  Then the stupid Knix let Bernard go in FA, and he winds up playing more games and more seasons in WASH than he did in NY.  #stupidknix.

At least I figured it must have really been a good Jamaican restaurant if PE from the island gets his chow there. 

I must have told that feeble story before  .. (?)
But just shows that I was patient and optimistic and played for a sucker by a dumb team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 19, 2019, 11:22:36 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 19, 2019, 09:54:03 AM
Love the cherry pick off 25 games vs Rudy

Not sure how comparing one guy's season to another's is cherry-picking.  Probably just fake stats ...

I'd trade Jr. Smith to MIL for either DJ Flip Wilson or DiVicenzo.
Bled and Hill are injury prone types.  They don't use DJ Wil.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on December 19, 2019, 11:23:21 AM
<I>The friend lived in Silver Spring, MD and chose a Jamaican restaurant there.</I>

Was it Negril?  Been there many times.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 19, 2019, 12:19:35 PM
Probably.  Can't be too many Jamaican restaurants in SS.  IIRC, the place was fairly basic inside, decidedly no-frills.  In a strip mall, I believe.  But that's how it was circa 1987 ... and my memory could be less than stellar.
Title: LOL
Post by: chipstern on December 19, 2019, 12:26:33 PM
And you guys mock Perry & Mills. 

WOW. 

Keep your day jobs. 
Title: Worth Noting
Post by: chipstern on December 19, 2019, 01:19:26 PM
Dear Trader Vics

Besides the abject horror of the absurd proposed trades...might it not be prudent to, oh, I don't know...wait?

Have until February 15, right?

Might not we know/learn more about our "assets" as such, after a month or two playing in a non-Fizzdalian system; after a month or two or developing some semblance of a bond, of some chemistry, after how many new free agents (seven) and rookies (two) have had what, four exhibition games, and 28 regular season games to play together and get healthy? 

That is to say. 

Having a better idea of who might be keepers? 

Having a better idea as to who play well together? 

Having a better idea as to whom and what we are committed to moving forward? 

For instance, Jeff Teague. 

Ending contract.  I get it. 

Nice player. 

SO FUCKING WHAT.

Is 31.  Still has some gas left in the tank, but why has Minny soured on him?   A fine Free Throw shooter and distributor, observe if you might how dramatically his number of free throws has gone down these past three years.  An omen. 

Trade Dennis Smith for him?  Why not toss in Rod Strickland and see if we could get Mo Cheeks included? 

Seriously? 

What about the 31 year old Teague is better at this point than Payton.  And why give up on Smith for someone we could sign cheaply as a FA this summer?   

Elfrid will be 26 in February.  Stat wise, his 3-point shooting is up, his FT % is up, steals are up; his turnovers are down; alas, FG% and assists down...let's see where he is in a month of steady minutes and better fitness and health and familiarity. 

I liked Trey Burke, and I liked Emmanuel Mudiay, but adding them to the scrum last season inhibited the evolution of Ntilikina. 

We have Payton, Ntilikina, Smith, Allen. 

Dieng? 

This from the forum which mocked Mills for signing Timmy? 

Will be 30 in January.  Owed 16 million for 2019-2020, and 17 million for 2020-2021.

Hello? 

In what way shape or form is he a better fit than Gibson or Portis? 

NO ONE on this roster is exempt from consideration for trades.

[Save perhaps Mitchell, RJ and Kevin.] 

Even my beloved Morris. 

But seriously?  "The numbers work."  Cripes.  FUCK YOUR NUMBERS. 

A trade has to make sense. 

Clippers offering a #1 for MM?

Really? 

Be still my heart. 

I'd rather have Morris, competing with Kevin, making him better, making us better. 

Now, a #1 and Moe Harkless?  Fuck MOE. 

Landry Shamet?  Montrezl Harrell?  Now those are some ACTUAL ASSETS we could grow forward with. 

We don't need a second tier 3&D.  Shamet can SHOOT.  And Harrell may be an undersized C-PF, but he is a beast.

Why would Clippers sacrifice them? 

If they want Morris THAT BAD, got to give to get.   

By the way, the Clippers traded all of their #1 picks for Paul George, save for #26.  The #1 they do have this coming summer is the Sixers' pick from the Tobias Harris trade, presently #25. 

Be still my heart.  For Morris? 

Cough. 

Our personnel needs an opportunity to evolve in Miller's new system, to play healthy and to play together. 

Most of the trade proposals I have seen here, elsewhere in the media and on line, are jokes.  Fire sales. 

We are presently, what, 7-21? 

HOW THE FUCK IS JAKE LAYMAN going to impact our evolution, team chemistry...win-loss record? 

Any deals we could make now, we could make in February.

(https://media3.giphy.com/media/11eUEe8fAvgk48/source.gif)

I know I am traditionally a broken record in this regard, but I have never been a fan of reflexive, OFF WITH THEIR HEAD trades.  or trades for the sake of trades. 

Morris could leave as a FA this summer?

Fair enough. 

Just for the growth in Knox, he would have been a good rental. 

Payton's team option is 8 million. 

Payton-Ntilikina-Smith TOGETHER are on the books for roughly 20 million next season. 

Trier and Dotson come off the books this summer. 

Is RJ our 2 or our 3 going forward? 

Is Knox capable of being a 3 and a 4? 

Mitchell's team option comes due in 2021-2022. 

If we are going to suck in 2019-2020, we might just as well suck with Morris and Portis and Smith, as with Dieng, Teague and Layman. 

Get a GRIP people. 

PS: Dawg and Carlos and the Forum were right about Fizz.  I was wrong.  Don't know if Miller is the chosen one, but so far, so good.  Miami and Milwaukee could not come at a better time.  REALITY CHECK. 
Title: RJ + Hope > Character
Post by: chipstern on December 19, 2019, 01:47:42 PM
His first NBA head coach has been fired. His team has one of the worst records in the league. And there is constant drama surrounding the CEO of the franchise and speculation about the front office’s future. But New York Knicks rookie RJ Barrett doesn’t seem overwhelmed by basketball life in the big city. “I’m 19 with no pressure on me. I go out and play basketball, the game that I love. I am in the NBA. Why would I let something like that mess me up?” Barrett recently told The Undefeated.

“[Fizdale] and Smart were the ones that gave me my first chance in this league,” Barrett said. “It’s tough for me to see them go. But there are always more games and I have a job to do. You have to move on. You can’t look back ever in this league. … “I knew it was a business coming in. I’m happy to have really strong vets. Taj keeps telling me, ‘Stay straight, young fella. Don’t veer off. Stay with it.’ ”

Barrett added that he is also trying to get better by watching his diet, staying late after practice and returning to the gym to get up more shots. “I’m here every night and play every night except for the one time when I was sick,” he said. “I’m always there for my team. I always try to do the best I can for the group no matter what it is. If I don’t score and I get 10 assists, that’s a good game.”
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 19, 2019, 04:01:49 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 19, 2019, 11:08:30 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on December 19, 2019, 08:54:26 AM
Imagining KP playing alongside Mitch Robinson, presenting one heck of a dual-shot blocking lane barrier — and opening up our lane on offense — a wee, wee bit like what-iffing the BK-Ewing pairing we were denied 30 years earlier. Carlyle using KP way differently than we were..at least at this stage of his comeback.

Summer of '87, I was down in DC for a weekend, and I had dinner with my childhood sweetheart and a friend from high school.  The friend lived in Silver Spring, MD and chose a Jamaican restaurant there.  Halfway through our meal, Patrick Ewing walks in and stands around the counter waiting for them to get his enormous take out order together. 

I thought of going over and saying, "Hey Patrick, how's Bernard doing?  You guys are gonna kill it this year."  But I didn't bother him.  Then the stupid Knix let Bernard go in FA, and he winds up playing more games and more seasons in WASH than he did in NY.  #stupidknix.

At least I figured it must have really been a good Jamaican restaurant if PE from the island gets his chow there. 

I must have told that feeble story before  .. (?)
But just shows that I was patient and optimistic and played for a sucker by a dumb team.

May have been the team order.

What is really in the news with Patrick is the 4 players that left this year's pretty good Georgetown squad - 2 under possibly criminal circumstances and at least one other who just wanted to ready himself for the draft.

Team is still forging ahead though.  First game without the 4-some - including the lead guard - saw them defeat a previously unbeaten OK State.  Mac MCCLUNG - the hot shot combo guard that had been averaging just 12 a night (deferring), gets 33 his first game as headliner. 

Mac's got some Jimmer in him, surely.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 19, 2019, 04:06:43 PM
Teague has never been that good and now he's old and not that good.  But I can't imagine MINNy wants to start Smith Jr. this year. 


heh

re:  Teague-won

Well, we cant just hold out for the 1/2% of NBA players that you champion.

I was figuring Minnesota looking toward next year- but you could be right - maybe they have eyes on that 8th seed full throttle - in which case they don't give up JT.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 19, 2019, 04:11:14 PM
“[Fizdale] and Smart were the ones that gave me my first chance in this league,” Barrett said. “It’s tough for me to see them go. But there are always more games and I have a job to do. You have to move on. You can’t look back ever in this league. … “I knew it was a business coming in. I’m happy to have really strong vets. Taj keeps telling me, ‘Stay straight, young fella. Don’t veer off. Stay with it.’ ”


a)  Fiz was going for Williamson
b)  It was Knicks BRASS that gave you the chance, RJ.  What was Fizdale to do - not coach you?
c)  The"it's a business" line is tired.  You went to DUKE, for fuck's sake  Have an insight.
d)  Don't veer off?  To where?  This cat was raised right -  but I guess he was just answering dumbfuck reporter's query.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 19, 2019, 04:13:33 PM
"If I don't score and I get ten assists, it's a good game"

No.  Really - it isn't, RJ.  Learn the league and your potential part in it.  You are being counted on.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 19, 2019, 04:31:09 PM
Besides the abject horror of the absurd proposed trades...might it not be prudent to, oh, I don't know...wait?


If you were talking about my Teague proposal, it was a rebuttal - an OPINION on what we might grab IF Minnesota really IS interested in Smith, as has been reported.

Cheers.  (hic)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 19, 2019, 04:32:27 PM
Is 31.  Still has some gas left in the tank, but why has Minny soured on him?   A fine Free Throw shooter and distributor, observe if you might how dramatically his number of free throws has gone down these past three years.  An omen.


Who says they have?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 19, 2019, 04:53:02 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 19, 2019, 04:13:33 PM
"If I don't score and I get ten assists, it's a good game"

No.  Really - it isn't, RJ.  Learn the league and your potential part in it.  You are being counted on.

"They don't pay me to play defense"
- Jabari Parker

Fellow Dukie.

What makes Duke bball a standard for intelligence?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 19, 2019, 04:53:23 PM
Meanwhile, Langston Galloway an asset?  Imagine that.

https://pistonpowered.com/2019/12/19/four-galloway-trades-detroit-pistons/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 19, 2019, 04:56:08 PM
Jabari Parker, you say?

We should BE so lucky with RJ's shooting percentages.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 19, 2019, 04:58:07 PM
Is Barrett's 125 (combined percentages - 40+30+55) worst in the league among non bigs?

May very well be.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 19, 2019, 05:02:28 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 19, 2019, 04:53:02 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 19, 2019, 04:13:33 PM
"If I don't score and I get ten assists, it's a good game"

No.  Really - it isn't, RJ.  Learn the league and your potential part in it.  You are being counted on.

"They don't pay me to play defense"
- Jabari Parker

Fellow Dukie.

What makes Duke bball a standard for intelligence?

Kiid.

As per RJ.

Huge upside. 

Winner at every level.

Ain't there yet. 

Working on shot.

Working on FTs.

Working on Defense.

Working on WORKING. 

Basically what he said was that I'm 19, I'm having fun, I am blessed, I am taking NOTHING FOR GRANTED. 

Hey, if Elfrid scored no points but got 10 assists with no turnovers, I think you'd be ecstatic. 

PS: I finally watched the Atlanta game, and in lieu of a possible ass kicking at the hands of the Heat...there was a play in the fourth quarter that was absolutely gorgeous, and indicative of RJ's statement, and the evolution of this team, in spite of all the horrors we have all witnessed.  Elfrid out on top of the key, passed to his left where RJ made an instantaneous pass to Knox on the baseline, who instead of forcing a shot, found a cutting Robinson for the slam.  Beautiful team work and ball motion.  Nothing that shows up in RJ's otherwise impressive stat line (10-13, 2-3, 5-8, 6, 1, 1), but an example of his team first attitude and talent as a facilitator.  The likes of Clyde are always talking about things teams can do when the shots are not falling.  Defense, good passing and purposeful, unselfish ball movement surely qualifies). 

PPS: Teague as a rumor.  Is a rumor.  Don't see why Minny would offload him when they are trying to solidify their culture and make the playoffs.  Was addressing the notions, floated here, that the Knicks dump Smith, instead of nurturing him.  Too soon to proclaim him a bust.  TOO FUCKING SOON.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 19, 2019, 05:03:00 PM
One for Bo (don't shoot the messenger)

The final, and most aggressive trade is a package of Markieff Morris, Langston Galloway, and Tony Snell for Kent Bazemore, Anfernee Simons, and a 2020 first round pick from the Portland Trailblazers.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 19, 2019, 05:03:31 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 19, 2019, 04:56:08 PM
Jabari Parker, you say?

We should BE so lucky with RJ's shooting percentages.

Are you making the case for Jabari in lieu of RJ?

Heh. 

Get a grip. 
Title: Mitchell Robinson, Part II
Post by: chipstern on December 19, 2019, 05:06:40 PM
Shams Charania: Potential No. 1 pick James Wiseman of Memphis has left the university, will sign with an agent and begin preparing for 2020 NBA draft. – via Twitter ShamsCharania
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 19, 2019, 05:23:51 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 19, 2019, 04:58:07 PM
Is Barrett's 125 (combined percentages - 40+30+55) worst in the league among non bigs?

May very well be.

125 is higher than 117, which is what you get from DSJ’s  .338 fg  .314 3 pt and .515 ft splits. Yet someone might want to take him off our hands.

462. Fg 352. 3pt .600 ft is what Layman is knocking down for The wolves on 10 pets per game over 27 minutes. He’s 25 with the size to play 2 or 3. He’s making under 4 mil the next two years.

Ellington has a 126 mark by this bizarre metric .322 fg .304 3pt .666 ft.

Swap DSJ for Layman. Release Ellington and call up and sign for 3 or more years Kadeem Allen. This improves our PG and perimeter production with cheap smart productive effort players entering their early primes.

We’re not gonna get more for DSJ if we even get that much.

Title: Re: Mitchell Robinson, Part II
Post by: facilitatorn on December 19, 2019, 05:27:17 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 19, 2019, 05:06:40 PM
Shams Charania: Potential No. 1 pick James Wiseman of Memphis has left the university, will sign with an agent and begin preparing for 2020 NBA draft. – via Twitter ShamsCharania

Makes sense for him to shed his amateur status and see how he can get paid to work out. There are a number of models to follow at this point that have gotten guys to the league.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 19, 2019, 05:55:34 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 19, 2019, 05:23:51 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 19, 2019, 04:58:07 PM
Is Barrett's 125 (combined percentages - 40+30+55) worst in the league among non bigs?

May very well be.

125 is higher than 117, which is what you get from DSJ’s  .338 fg  .314 3 pt and .515 ft splits. Yet someone might want to take him off our hands.

462. Fg 352. 3pt .600 ft is what Layman is knocking down for The wolves on 10 pets per game over 27 minutes. He’s 25 with the size to play 2 or 3. He’s making under 4 mil the next two years.

Ellington has a 126 mark by this bizarre metric .322 fg .304 3pt .666 ft.

Swap DSJ for Layman. Release Ellington and call up and sign for 3 or more years Kadeem Allen. This improves our PG and perimeter production with cheap smart productive effort players entering their early primes.

We’re not gonna get more for DSJ if we even get that much.

I get your drift. 

HOWSOEVER...

WAY TOO EARLY TO GIVE UP ON DENNIS SMITH. 

As for Layman?

We have RJ.

We have Brazdekis. 

We have Bullock. 

We have Knox. 

WE HAVE MORRIS. 

Seems to me, innocent that I am, that there is more to be gained by reconstituting Smith's confidence and his game, than in dumping him for a role player who offers us nothing that we couldn't glean from patiently working with the assets we already have, and who would be buried on the bench. 

Frank has also been up and down, up and down, but has benefited from patience...still has a long ways to go, but if he continues to improve his jumper, he could benefit us as an off the ball-2 with defensive posture. 

Smith looked mighty good last season before his back injury. 

Has been a shipwreck this season, given injuries and family tragedy, but again, new day, new dawn, new coach...yes, he had three turnovers against the Hawks, but he did any number of nice things, including draining a three, some nice aggressive drives to the paint, and a big time defensive play against Trae with a blocked shot. 

I MEAN, what exactly is the rush to fucking dump him?  Might he be dangled in a trade?  Sure, why not.  But dumping him as a bust?  Please.  What's the point?  There's a reason he and Frank went 8-9 in the first round.  Donovan Mitchell at 13?  Point taken.  Still, got off to a nice start with Dallas.  Dennis is NOT A BUM. 

2017: Bam Adebayo #14, Jarret Allen #22, OG Anunoby #23, Kuzma #27, Josh Hart #30, Ivan Rabb #35.  Dotson #44.  Kadeem Allen #53

PS: James Wiseman.  That would be nice.  Still pretty raw, in terms of his shot, but has potential as both a 5 and a stretch 4.   VERY ATHLETIC. Though I suspect the hoops gods do not favor the Knicks.  In lieu of that wet dream, do the Knicks pursue one of the PGs?  Or is there a drop dead shooter who might fall in our laps?  There seem to be any number of PGs and promising but raw bigs. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 19, 2019, 06:40:09 PM
I was Mitchell then frank at the draft with a lot of back and forth prior. But that also meant thinking a lot about Dennis Smith.

I also watched him in Dallas a fair amount and have watched him closely here in NY.

No question he has potential, and talent, and a certain understanding of the game. By 24 or 25, he could be really good.

He’s not really good right now, even for what we need him to do now which is be a disciplined energetic platoon PG who keeps the train together on both ends. Can he take a guy off the dribble, score in a crowd, throw the advanced pass, make the athletic defensive play? Yes, yes, yes, and yes. That’s why some teams might want him. Kadeem Allen does all those things nearly as well plus he does that stuff we hope Dennis will one day do. Also Kadeem has more experience with Miller’s coaching under NBA rules than any other active player.

I’m not saying we have to trade Smith or that we should, just pointing out it would t hurt us much if we do.

Maybe there’s better return out there than Layman. We have Bullock coming back and we have Barrett, Dotson, Morris, and Knox, not to mention Iggy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 19, 2019, 06:46:40 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 19, 2019, 05:55:34 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 19, 2019, 05:23:51 PM


We’re not gonna get more for DSJ if we even get that much.



WAY TOO EARLY TO GIVE UP ON DENNIS SMITH. 


I agree.  Lets see what we have under Coach Miller.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 19, 2019, 07:22:33 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 19, 2019, 06:40:09 PM
I was Mitchell then frank at the draft with a lot of back and forth prior. But that also meant thinking a lot about Dennis Smith.

I also watched him in Dallas a fair amount and have watched him closely here in NY.

No question he has potential, and talent, and a certain understanding of the game. By 24 or 25, he could be really good.

He’s not really good right now, even for what we need him to do now which is be a disciplined energetic platoon PG who keeps the train together on both ends. Can he take a guy off the dribble, score in a crowd, throw the advanced pass, make the athletic defensive play? Yes, yes, yes, and yes. That’s why some teams might want him. Kadeem Allen does all those things nearly as well plus he does that stuff we hope Dennis will one day do. Also Kadeem has more experience with Miller’s coaching under NBA rules than any other active player.

I’m not saying we have to trade Smith or that we should, just pointing out it would t hurt us much if we do.

Maybe there’s better return out there than Layman. We have Bullock coming back and we have Barrett, Dotson, Morris, and Knox, not to mention Iggy.

NOT TO MENTION...

Trier

We're paying him like 3.5 million in this the final year of his deal. 

What is HIS role with Miller's team going forward?  I know that Kiid is singularly unimpressed. 

We shall see. 

Your take on Smith makes sense. 

I am more inclined to see what he's got than to offload him. 

Hey, if there is an offer out there which makes sense, Dotson, Trier, Ellington, Bullock, could be useful assets for some teams.  All ending/opt-out-clause contracts. 

As per Gibson and Portis, Randle and Morris? 

All have been progressing.  Gibson a good table setter for Robinson; Portis finding his rhythm as a 15-20 minute a night stretch 4.  Randle finding his rhythm, being deployed in a more sensible way....would still prefer to see more in the box and hoisting less treys.  Morris has been our best player, though sometimes he has a tendency to force things, but more often than not, has been responding to the challenge of being the bell cow. 

Bullock kind of a wild card at this point.  Shoots threes in the 35-40% range, and is purportedly a good defender. 

Having gone back and forth on this, if a deal is struck, thinning out the back court herd would seem to make some sense, if there is a useful return.

What that might constitute? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 19, 2019, 08:12:46 PM
We are a .500 franchise since the coaching change and maybe a julius randle free throw from being 4-2 since the culling.

Sure Payton's availability and the quality of the opposition coincided with the upswing.

But it was Fiz who chose to sit all PGs in favor of Trierror to start game 1.

It was Fiz who turned Mitch and Frank foul machines with his idea of switching defense.

It's Miller who has us chasing three pt shooters.

Mills is in full-scale CYA mode hiring Blatt to follow up the loss of David Griffin.

Notice how once the articles about Mills interfering with the Griffin hire came out, he turns to Griffin's man Blatt to flush the news cycle and maybe appease Dolan into thinking he got the next best thing to Griffin.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on December 19, 2019, 08:54:50 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 19, 2019, 05:23:51 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 19, 2019, 04:58:07 PM
Is Barrett's 125 (combined percentages - 40+30+55) worst in the league among non bigs?

May very well be.

125 is higher than 117, which is what you get from DSJ’s  .338 fg  .314 3 pt and .515 ft splits. Yet someone might want to take him off our hands.

462. Fg 352. 3pt .600 ft is what Layman is knocking down for The wolves on 10 pets per game over 27 minutes. He’s 25 with the size to play 2 or 3. He’s making under 4 mil the next two years.

Ellington has a 126 mark by this bizarre metric .322 fg .304 3pt .666 ft.

Swap DSJ for Layman. Release Ellington and call up and sign for 3 or more years Kadeem Allen. This improves our PG and perimeter production with cheap smart productive effort players entering their early primes.

We’re not gonna get more for DSJ if we even get that much.

I'm of the inclination to move faster than Feb. to make moves to improve the team.


The argument of, "What's the rush?" simply ignores the laws of physics. Using DSJ as an example, advocates tease, "but he's soooo athletic, so much potential", and so on.  That's true.  But it requires that DSJ somehow takes priority over everybody else who may not be as athletic but are playing very well given their age and maturity and furthermore like to play defense.

And there's always the argument that somebody, somewhere will groom DSJ to his potential.  IMO, good on them.

My "rush" to trade a DSJ is that its addition by subtraction.  Allen is an upgrade. as third PG off the bench.  That's just a fact.

Secondly, it takes the monkey off Miller's back to do *something* constructive with DSJ as if he's now Miller's sword of Damocles.
Miller has his hands full already.  Why not ease his burden rather than continue to pound the sand with DSJ?

Jake Layman would be a fine return if it were offered.  Minnesota has little else of interest.

Why not Smith and Portis for Little and Bazemore?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 19, 2019, 08:59:34 PM
PPS: Teague as a rumor.  Is a rumor.  Don't see why Minny would offload him when they are trying to solidify their culture and make the playoffs. Was addressing the notions, floated here, that the Knicks dump Smith, instead of nurturing him.  Too soon to proclaim him a bust.  TOO FUCKING SOON.  


OK, got it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on December 19, 2019, 09:15:09 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 19, 2019, 08:59:34 PM
PPS: Teague as a rumor.  Is a rumor.  Don't see why Minny would offload him when they are trying to solidify their culture and make the playoffs. Was addressing the notions, floated here, that the Knicks dump Smith, instead of nurturing him.  Too soon to proclaim him a bust.  TOO FUCKING SOON.  


OK, got it.

Well, I prefer Frankie and Payton rather than Teague, not because I am diminishing Teague's value but the Frankie/Elfrid duo is playing very, very well - why mess with that?

Its never too soon to cut bait on DSJ - that train left the station a while ago.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 19, 2019, 09:18:09 PM
Train seems to come and go

Cant scoff at 5 assists and 5 boards in 13 minutes, DSJ's latest

Likely he wont play much tomorrow though.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 19, 2019, 09:21:21 PM
PS: James Wiseman.  That would be nice.  Still pretty raw, in terms of his shot, but has potential as both a 5 and a stretch 4.   VERY ATHLETIC. Though I suspect the hoops gods do not favor the Knicks.  In lieu of that wet dream, do the Knicks pursue one of the PGs?  Or is there a drop dead shooter who might fall in our laps?  There seem to be any number of PGs and promising but raw bigs.


Is kind of a 5 player tier atop..... thoug I also like 6 and 7 - (the Israeli and the AZ point)

The shooter I think is Edwards - would bump Barrett to the 3.  Laugh if you want but Lonzo's bro is a possibility for Broadway
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 19, 2019, 10:03:26 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on December 19, 2019, 09:15:09 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 19, 2019, 08:59:34 PM
PPS: Teague as a rumor.  Is a rumor.  Don't see why Minny would offload him when they are trying to solidify their culture and make the playoffs. Was addressing the notions, floated here, that the Knicks dump Smith, instead of nurturing him.  Too soon to proclaim him a bust.  TOO FUCKING SOON.  


OK, got it.

Well, I prefer Frankie and Payton rather than Teague, not because I am diminishing Teague's value but the Frankie/Elfrid duo is playing very, very well - why mess with that?

Its never too soon to cut bait on DSJ - that train left the station a while ago.

But we should take back Bazemore?

Reasoning is too sophisticated for me. 

A smallish 6'4" 30-year old SF/SG, when we already have RJ and Bullock, not to mention Knox and Iggy.

A severely undersized PF who is a .162% from trey. 

A) I prefer my redundancy to yours. 

B) Subtraction through MORE SUBTRACTION. 

C) And you toss in Portis in exchange for a dwarf Stretch 4 who 'caint stretch. 

Well, now...

We give up talent and get back nothing. 

Title: Positive Pussies
Post by: carlos123 on December 19, 2019, 10:52:32 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 18, 2019, 12:35:56 PM


PPS: Yes Carlos, time to weaponize your pussy, but keep your Inner Merciless at hand. 



You mean this

(https://media.giphy.com/media/8Y3KVzult8ICI/giphy.gif)

Rather than this?

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_cfh7zDN3i08tLH1OowMIH5H5FcSjMPq1eTQk1Qbm8vlWcNXh3LegrdvCHnb7qm8pCqBvyHNaJDiNthXSCyGjfa3BhNR--u5vfJAyShqZHd3v0bYrYKS3zbNOV8MCNtpce4uw5ZdET_sVOk4ewAXbXjT6fF_YVFX48cT2PoK4PqVmkYR5TJjTe__eIDIbIKVfDWzuT0o6Wy4ZbQdU9HwvEGcW5eCZmlErsOLxq6NOzJrgFHw4YW5dbYzP7S2217fNe08TSOLVgwNh5tn2a28-NUiMMT3DNacIcZXUx0Hk-eRprX97dYzkIBDop0k1TuP41sZJ6ILKnYsRRpBO21VScqQXgiJjPgML9Hsu8l4mSP4opjNaRQQMdJ2isNwZzfmUvQKtojJgkOtY-goxZgYdvE2HPBtfNpQOGgMkxfSQ63aa4APdf9eGjcqZGf-woPjpvkIOaYVmEtUX_L2iNgchgn4dBztzW_Ctqs7Mm2Tls0X9n2ciTG46XhR4jKFY1hNzMxIK3_JFvrGqQRjhyl9FY1gKXUYexKeJoJeqcw3zXHUGQtBeayoOeodWaOHTEZhOKcvMtT_Nc8o9W6XuF53zXhis9lVGPY2NRomyrrw9N4JeYuYZrx3aV5P_a9cu-pdg0dGGhPBlmfMrUQGVQlzWqy664RjUAMQ4SaIIEHecYH61AQOagfx-g=w599-h460-no)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 20, 2019, 01:24:17 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 19, 2019, 05:03:00 PM
The final, and most aggressive trade is a package of Markieff Morris, Langston Galloway, and Tony Snell for Kent Bazemore, Anfernee Simons, and a 2020 first round pick from the Portland Trailblazers.

That's the kind of trade i'd like to make.
Where we give a team a starter and two solid bench guys in exchange for a yute and a 1R pick.  I've targeted Simons and a POR 1st. 

We could offer POR a better Morris, a backup PG (Elf or Smith) and a shooter scorer (Ellington/Trier).  We have the depth to give a team an instant bench.

I think our package is superior to DET.  Mainly because we have the better Morris, and give a PG which they need when Lillard gets dinged up as he does.

Baze has never fulfilled his promise, mostly because he is a mistake guy with poor vision and iffy consistency.  But he plays hard and comes through now and then.  Really just trade ballast and a body.

I'd like to make one trade soon, take a pause and then make another near the deadline.  A team like POR needs to make a trade early to salvage their season.  A Morris + deal.  Then a PG + instant bench trade.  Get yute, get assets, get picks.

I'd also be up for starting JR. Smith for the next month, see if he can lead these guys and/or up his trade value.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 20, 2019, 02:14:08 AM
It's easier to concoct trades when you know what a team needs and what direction they are heading in.  I guess right now Knix need a starting PG (as always) and outside shooters.  And I'd be flipping vets for yute/picks.  Might as well lose with potential rather than vets.

I would have flipped Rose for Rubio, as he's still young and solid.  Plays D, gives you a nice foundation and then you know you need a 3-Pt shooting SG to pair with him.

Wish Knix also went after pitbull guys like PaBev, Rich Holmes, Montrezl, Smart.  NY loves hustle guys who throw their bodies around and want to win more than the other guy.  Also, we never bothered trying to get a 3 wing, though Morris is sort of that.

Right now I'm looking for underperforming or low minute guys from the last few drafts we could target: DJ Wilson, Simonsays, etc.

I guess we have two months to figure out what the plan is.  My guess is Knx hedge by making a small move involving a PG and stay put otherwise.  Hopefully the pressure on Mills forces a bigger deal.  Would Perry-Mills make major vet dumping moves, tack to a yute rebuild and claim that was the plan all along nabbing so many PF FA's?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 20, 2019, 08:03:43 AM
Well, I prefer Frankie and Payton rather than Teague, not because I am diminishing Teague's value but the Frankie/Elfrid duo is playing very, very well - why mess with that?


Are we saying this is our duo for next season?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 20, 2019, 09:40:40 AM
If we're putting together a trade package and getting a return we like, I'd likely let a team choose Franc instead of Jr. Smith if they so wanted.

In other words, let's see if Franc is still here after the trade deadline, before worrying about next year.

One other thing: there have been a fair number of quality/starting level PG's moved in the past say 5 years and the Knix never got in on the action.  vets: Kyrie x 2, Kemba, Bledsoe, Dragic, Rubio, Teague, Pa Bev, RegJax; oldheads: Conley, Westbrook, CP3,  young'uns LonzoBall, Brogdon, Rozier, Fultz.

All we did was kick the tires on a semi-gimpy DRose, a reclamation Mud, and a discombobulated Jr. Smith.
Good low-risk gambles, but not starting caliber PG's.
 i would have liked to get Rubio, Brogdon and Pa Bev.
And there was talk that Lowry could have been had a #1.

For years I keep wondering where/when the Knix will get a starting PG.
Title: Point Guards
Post by: chipstern on December 20, 2019, 11:45:33 AM
Let Us Get On The Memory Train.

And Go Back 10 Seasons To Kiid's Favorite Knicks Draft Pick. 

And Kam's Least Fave GM, Dim Donnie Walsh. 

Minny went for Rubio at #5 [Nice] and Johnny Flynn at #6 [Not So Nice], and just when it appeared as though Steph Curry would land in D'Antoni's lap at #8, Golden State took him at #7. 

And just because we were in desperate need of a PG, Walsh at #8 did the indefensible (save to his stalwart defender Kiid), by taking PF Jordan Hill, who went on to average 10.5 minutes a game over 24 contests before he was unceremoniously shipped off out of town along with Jared Jeffries in a deal which brought back to NYC the earthly remains of Tracy McGrady. 

This is one of the most PG rich drafts in NBA history, as well as some other significant players still in the league. 

#8 Jordan Hill
#9 DeMar DeRozan
#10 Brandon Jennings
#17 Jrue Holiday
#18 Ty Lawson
#19 Jeff Teague
#21 Darren Collison
#26 Taj Gibson
#27 DeMarre Carroll
#28 Wayne Ellington
#29 Toney Douglas
#42 Patrick Beverley
#46 Danny Green
#55 Patty Mills

Both of the Knicks picks...gone.

No second rounders, of course, because we all know how useless those are, save for, oh, Beverley, Green and Mills, all still in the league, and with career 3-pt percentages hovering between .375 and .400 (not unlike Collison). 

Meanwhile, the Knicks end up with Gibson and Ellington in the twilight of their careers.  Jennings had a cameo with the Knicks. 

Jennings and Lawson both out of the league. 

But Holiday (still only 29) and Teague are still productive players.  Jennings had a nice productive stretch for the Bucks, Lawson had a nice productive stretch for the Nuggets, and Collison was a dependable distributor and shooter for numerous teams through last season (not sure why he is not presently on an NBA roster). 

So when I read arguments which hold how we should ship Dennis Smith out of town for marginal role players, well, I get kind of, blue. 

PS: As for dumping other members of our current roster, such as Morris, for late first rounders, much as I love draft picks, the 2020 Draft is shaping up as one of the weakest in memory, so our chances of getting something tasty are just as promising with the #2 pick we gleaned from the Hornets in the Hernan Gomez trade, as what we might get from the Clippers' draft pick.  "But then we might be letting Morris walk for nothing next summer."  MAYBE.  If so, his contribution to Kevin Knox's development has been manifest. 

PPS: Read a very interesting analysis of Coach Miller, which credited him with big improvements in the Knicks by virtue of simplifying our defensive scheme, which you may observe in that Robinson is not picking up cheap fouls when complex switching schemes find him out on the perimeter getting juked by smaller quicker players, while the rim goes undefended.  Likewise Frank.  All of that switching flummoxed the Knicks, let to confusion, blown assignments, and a flurry of open threes. 

PPPS: In simplifying the defense, and making players thus accountable for understandable responsibilities, Miller has thus been able to make the offense way less predictable, less of Fizz's iso-heavy hero ball, with players such as Randle dribbling repeatedly into one-on-three coverage while motherfuckers stood around holding their dicks on the perimeter; more motion without the ball; more decisive cutting and screens; better spacing and ball-sharing.  WE SHALL SEE. 

PPPPS: While everyone is zoning on Mills and Perry, and Mills' potential power move in bringing David Blatt into the fold, it is worth noting that everyone seems to be zoning on Dolan's ace in the hole, as opposed to Mills' ass in the hold.  That is to say...ALLAN HOUSTON, people.  Houston has long had a positive relationship with Dolan, and has steadily moved up the ranks.  One should NOT DISCOUNT Houston's positive work with our G-League franchise, and, now class, who was Houston's coach in Westchester, and the man he lobbied to be promoted to Fizz's staff, and thereafter, to THE HEAD COACHING CHAIR.  Don't think this has escaped Dolan's notice, and if Mills & Perry are to be cashiered, and if Dolan resists his much discredited predilection for big names as his Head Of Basketball Operations (Isiah Thomas Donnie Walsh, Phil Jackson) and does not aimlessly pursue the GMs of Toronto, OKC and San Antonio, Allan Houston could very well provide a touch of continuity with a change of emphasis in the front office moving forward.  YOUR THOUGHTS? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 20, 2019, 01:08:41 PM
I prefer Spree . . .

Collison abruptly retired to become a minister, I believe.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 20, 2019, 04:08:18 PM
The beauty, Chip- would have been in touting Beverly over Douglas AT THE TIME -

or in at least poo-pooing rather than championing Douglas.

I recall folks on the forum seeing Tony as a potential lead guard of sorts steal for us.  My skepticism was immediate - I recall liking Maynor and Casspi - who were gone - and Budinger, Les Hudson and Calathes, who were not. 

Douglas did at least help get us Camby, even if as just salary filler

As for the top of that draft, while defending Hill to the hilt, I also liked DeRozen and Hansbrough  (went later) - as well as Rubiio and Curry (went earlier) - and hated Thabeet and Flynn, who were no peaches where picked.

Recall I disliked Sweetney

Shall we go on?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 20, 2019, 04:15:47 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 20, 2019, 04:08:18 PM
The beauty, Chip- would have been in touting Beverly over Douglas AT THE TIME -

or in at least poo-pooing rather than championing Douglas.

I recall folks on the forum seeing Tony as a potential lead guard of sorts steal for us.  My skepticism was immediate - I recall liking Maynor and Casspi - who were gone - and Budinger, Les Hudson and Calathes, who were not. 

Douglas did at least help get us Camby, even if as just salary filler

As for the top of that draft, while defending Hill to the hilt, I also liked DeRozen and Hansbrough  (went later) - as well as Rubiio and Curry (went earlier) - and hated Thabeet and Flynn, who were no peaches where picked.

Recall I disliked Sweetney

Shall we go on?

The beauty would have been to draft Holiday. 
Title: Sweet Knee
Post by: chipstern on December 20, 2019, 04:20:48 PM
That would've been your boy Layden...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 20, 2019, 04:26:00 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 20, 2019, 04:15:47 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 20, 2019, 04:08:18 PM
The beauty, Chip- would have been in touting Beverly over Douglas AT THE TIME -

or in at least poo-pooing rather than championing Douglas.

I recall folks on the forum seeing Tony as a potential lead guard of sorts steal for us.  My skepticism was immediate - I recall liking Maynor and Casspi - who were gone - and Budinger, Les Hudson and Calathes, who were not. 

Douglas did at least help get us Camby, even if as just salary filler

As for the top of that draft, while defending Hill to the hilt, I also liked DeRozen and Hansbrough  (went later) - as well as Rubiio and Curry (went earlier) - and hated Thabeet and Flynn, who were no peaches where picked.

Recall I disliked Sweetney

Shall we go on?

The beauty would have been to draft Holiday.

You think he is more than an average lead guard?

Wasnt rated anywhere near an 8 pick.  And please - if yiou were behind a deal DOWN - get behind the idea when I propose it  in other years - including 2019 - or at least give consideration.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 20, 2019, 04:35:39 PM
PPS: Read a very interesting analysis of Coach Miller, which credited him with big improvements in the Knicks by virtue of simplifying our defensive scheme, which you may observe in that Robinson is not picking up cheap fouls when complex switching schemes find him out on the perimeter getting juked by smaller quicker players, while the rim goes undefended.  Likewise Frank. All of that switching flummoxed the Knicks, let to confusion, blown assignments, and a flurry of open threes.


Heh
No shit
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 20, 2019, 05:02:47 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 20, 2019, 04:26:00 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 20, 2019, 04:15:47 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 20, 2019, 04:08:18 PM
The beauty, Chip- would have been in touting Beverly over Douglas AT THE TIME -

or in at least poo-pooing rather than championing Douglas.

I recall folks on the forum seeing Tony as a potential lead guard of sorts steal for us.  My skepticism was immediate - I recall liking Maynor and Casspi - who were gone - and Budinger, Les Hudson and Calathes, who were not. 

Douglas did at least help get us Camby, even if as just salary filler

As for the top of that draft, while defending Hill to the hilt, I also liked DeRozen and Hansbrough  (went later) - as well as Rubiio and Curry (went earlier) - and hated Thabeet and Flynn, who were no peaches where picked.

Recall I disliked Sweetney

Shall we go on?

The beauty would have been to draft Holiday.

You think he is more than an average lead guard?

Wasnt rated anywhere near an 8 pick.  And please - if yiou were behind a deal DOWN - get behind the idea when I propose it  in other years - including 2019 - or at least give consideration.

Seriously?

Last season?

21.2 ppg
7.7 assists
5.0 boards
35.9 minutes

Lonzo

9.9 ppg
5.5 assists
4.7 boards
30.3 minutes
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 20, 2019, 06:36:38 PM
heh

I surrender...

but you didnt answer the question.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 20, 2019, 07:13:32 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 20, 2019, 06:36:38 PM
heh

I surrender...

but you didnt answer the question.

Didn't I?

Stats speak volumes. 

Cough. 

Yes, I think Jrue is a top tier lead guard. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 20, 2019, 07:22:26 PM
Never a word about not making a run at Chris Paul, whose PER as an ANCIENT lead guard is better than any year Jrue has ever had.  Channing Fucking Frye.  Rolando Fucking Balkman.  Wilson Fucking Chandler - blah blahhhhhhh

That's right - the great Holiday never above 20 PER.  Average at best.  But yes - one of his best years last season before the current regression (which you will blame on his cast - save it)

Using the 22 year old Ball - who shot 8 less times and scored 11 less points last year than Holiday (other stats similar) - was a good one.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 20, 2019, 08:22:46 PM
Big start Frank

6-15...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 20, 2019, 08:33:00 PM
Heh


Barrett

Gets board, looks for nobody and ends up with a twisting blind 4 foot air ball

Outlet pass, moron.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 20, 2019, 08:56:09 PM
Clyde:  "Jones can only dunk"

30 seconds later he swishes a 3

Actually a real treat tonight - seeing our "yute" while also getting a glimpse of one of the real, real good NBA teams.  Pull up a chair, check your expectations, enjoy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 20, 2019, 08:58:34 PM
Knox just has zero clue how to defend other than head up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 20, 2019, 09:04:52 PM
May have to drop Barrett in my fantasy league - that's how sad it has gotten.
Title: GM
Post by: carlos123 on December 20, 2019, 10:23:27 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 20, 2019, 01:08:41 PM
I prefer Spree . . .


I prefer Chico kiid Cartero ... provided he's GMing Utah or OKC.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on December 20, 2019, 10:35:51 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 20, 2019, 08:03:43 AM
Well, I prefer Frankie and Payton rather than Teague, not because I am diminishing Teague's value but the Frankie/Elfrid duo is playing very, very well - why mess with that?


Are we saying this is our duo for next season?

Assuming a healthy trajectory I would say yes.

Where I would offer a qualification is if CP3 were acquired in a trade in which case CP3's career could be extended by playing fewer but critical minutes along side our developing duo.

I like what I'm seeing from these two and their combined production is as good or better than most of the longer-in-tooth PGs available in trade.  CP3 being a notable exception.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on December 20, 2019, 10:54:35 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 19, 2019, 10:03:26 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on December 19, 2019, 09:15:09 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 19, 2019, 08:59:34 PM
PPS: Teague as a rumor.  Is a rumor.  Don't see why Minny would offload him when they are trying to solidify their culture and make the playoffs. Was addressing the notions, floated here, that the Knicks dump Smith, instead of nurturing him.  Too soon to proclaim him a bust.  TOO FUCKING SOON.  


OK, got it.



Well, I prefer Frankie and Payton rather than Teague, not because I am diminishing Teague's value but the Frankie/Elfrid duo is playing very, very well - why mess with that?

Its never too soon to cut bait on DSJ - that train left the station a while ago.

But we should take back Bazemore?

Reasoning is too sophisticated for me. 

A smallish 6'4" 30-year old SF/SG, when we already have RJ and Bullock, not to mention Knox and Iggy.

A severely undersized PF who is a .162% from trey. 

A) I prefer my redundancy to yours. 

B) Subtraction through MORE SUBTRACTION. 

C) And you toss in Portis in exchange for a dwarf Stretch 4 who 'caint stretch. 

Well, now...

We give up talent and get back nothing.
chip,

Re: Bazemore and a youngin. 

Bazemore is having a down year - true.  But he's the kind of guy we may need to guide Barrett, Knox, and a few others.  Hahn a while back suggested signing Crawford to simply tutor Barrett and Trier.

I feel like he could become a poor man's Iguadala for us.

And getting back a former first round youth is just fine with me.

I'm not sensing any chemistry with Portis on the floor - mostly empty stats that he gives back on the defensive end.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 21, 2019, 12:59:42 AM
Meanwhile ...
Porzingis
Title: Enes
Post by: carlos123 on December 21, 2019, 01:59:34 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on December 21, 2019, 12:59:42 AM
Meanwhile ...
Porzingis

Porzingis had 18 rebounds.

... So did Enes Kanter.

PS. Kam(s)ter, Enes loves u 2 🌹❤️. He’s just playing for a good team, as against trying to play for Phony Phizz.

PPS. Les, u my doggie 🐶
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 21, 2019, 02:11:55 AM
Terrific Road W for Mavs with Luka out.
Tim's bipolar 3-Pt shooting was in the manic phase.

Carlisle gets the most out of his guys.
Makes a patchwork bench work.
Scurry 1.0, Delon and Boban are journeymen; Kleber plucked from Germany; Brunson a 2nd rounder; a 29 year old Australian named Broekhoff ... Courtly went from starting to DNP's.
Title: Luca
Post by: carlos123 on December 21, 2019, 02:19:12 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 21, 2019, 02:11:55 AM
Terrific Road W for Mavs with Lukca out.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 21, 2019, 02:34:53 AM
ESPN headline:
Heat ease past Knicks, lead wire-to-wire in 129-114 win
Isn't this a wrong usage?  To ease past means to get by slowly, carefully, gently.  Akin to squeezing or slipping by.  Just barely.  Not to get by easily.  I think they're mixing up easily with easing.

Heat easily handled the Execrable Knix ...

MIA 34 Assists on 43 FGM.

Good to see Myers Leonard playing well.  Always liked him.  Voted him Most in Need of a Change of Scenery 2 or 3 years running.

Bobby Mr. Consistency" Portis.
Should try to showcase him.  Get him a few more big games then ship him out.

I think there should be a series of negative awards:
Most Inconsistent
Least Valuable Player
Worst Starter
Least Clutch
Most Likely to Turn the Ball Over
Most Likely to Fall Down
Worst Passer
Biggest Ball Hog
Irrational Confidence Award
Most Injury Prone
Most Foul Prone
etc.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 21, 2019, 08:45:56 AM
34/30/73  shooting for THJ   -  8-5 record     Mavs with Hardaway coming off bench


46/43/85     ............        11-4 record     with THJ starting


Title: Trenchant Analysis
Post by: chipstern on December 21, 2019, 10:08:53 AM
Bobby "Mr. Consistency" Portis.

Should try to showcase him.  Get him a few more big games then ship him out.

25 Minutes [+11]

12-17 FG

4-7 Trey

2-2 FT

8 Rebounds

2 Assists

3 Steals

ZERO Turnovers

And does this against a top tier team which for the most part was completely bitch slapping our Knucks. 

(https://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/argue_with_that_blazing_saddles.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 21, 2019, 10:13:08 AM
I was bullish on Portis - and still am.

The problem is what salary he commands.

Likely a 1 year Knick - and sure - if someone wants him......

Tough guy to deal, price and potential effect on a contender considered.  For a big ticket - $$$, sure.

Likely stays - and is a one and done as he looks to start somewhere.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 21, 2019, 10:21:54 AM
A bit puzzling why Washington moved away from Portis, though their $$ problems were apparent.

Went with bigs Bryant, Bertans, Wagner and Mahinmi
Title: Re: Trenchant Analysis
Post by: FWK00 on December 21, 2019, 10:57:24 AM
Quote from: chipstern on December 21, 2019, 10:08:53 AM
Bobby "Mr. Consistency" Portis.

Should try to showcase him.  Get him a few more big games then ship him out.

25 Minutes [+11]

12-17 FG

4-7 Trey

2-2 FT

8 Rebounds

2 Assists

3 Steals

ZERO Turnovers

And does this against a top tier team which for the most part was completely bitch slapping our Knucks. 

(https://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/argue_with_that_blazing_saddles.gif)

I think the problem Portis has is the problem we all have, Randle.

Move Randle.  Let Portis assume PF duties and acquire a no-nonsense Center back-up
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 21, 2019, 11:08:24 AM
KNICKS ADD ANDREW WIGGINS

- just an example

With Barrett and next year's #1 - call it VERNON CAREY - a BASE. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 21, 2019, 12:20:25 PM
https://twitter.com/SLAMonline/status/1208185951672885248?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.commercialappeal.com%2Fstory%2Fsports%2F2019%2F12%2F20%2Fgrizzlies-vs-cavaliers-ja-morant-clears-kevin-love-dunk-attempt%2F2663785001%2 (https://twitter.com/SLAMonline/status/1208185951672885248?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.commercialappeal.com%2Fstory%2Fsports%2F2019%2F12%2F20%2Fgrizzlies-vs-cavaliers-ja-morant-clears-kevin-love-dunk-attempt%2F2663785001%2)F

Let's say Knick management does the simple easy thing. When faced with a vacancy, hires the best coach available, one who conveniently wants to come to the city.

Budenholzer.

Then does the simple natural no-brainer thing. Try to win games. I reckon we would have finished around 33-49 last year. And looked pretty decent. Like a team on the upswing. With some potential and a good vibe. Improving. Like the Nets under Kenny. With an eager unicorn waiting in the wings.

I think this situation would have gotten us sit-down or two. I think right now our lineup would look like this.

Mitch.
Porzingis.
Butler.
Hardaway.
Morant.

I think we would be around 19-11, or even better, happy as pigs in shit, and celebrating the start of the New Year with the most exciting Knick team in two decades, and eyes firmly pointed heavensward.

There's plenty of variation possible. Maybe Hardaway's not and there's a second A-lister in the lineup. Kemba? I think we easily moved THJ if Budenholzer was coaching him and we were playing to win, but you could have attached a pick to get rid off him if you needed to sign that second A-lister, no big deal. And maybe it's Zion, not Morant, or maybe Hachimura, or Herro, or even still RJ.  Not materially different.

Nothing far fetched about the above. Or variations on the above. No brainer stuff. It's where we would be with the most base-level competency in basketball management.

When that AXE gonna fall?

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 21, 2019, 12:25:49 PM
We WEREN'T TRADING PORZINGIS if only we had hired Budenhoser.

Nope - nothing far-fetched about that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 21, 2019, 12:32:59 PM
Absolutely nothing far fetched about that. Easily understood and pure logic, as usual, as with anything I post.
Title: Does Kristaps demand a trade if Budenholzer had been coaching?
Post by: lesterluv on December 21, 2019, 12:36:12 PM
Far fetched?

If you hire a real coach, send the team in the right direction, Kristaps doesn't demand trade in first place?

LOL you think that's far fetched?

Reputable sources (his teammate who was traded with him, say he didn't even GO INTO THAT MEETING DEMANDING A TRADE, even amidst a shitpool so deep only Fiz could have dug it.)

Let's vote. Far-fetched? Set up the poll, Biz.

Where you at, Biz?

Who killed Biz?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 21, 2019, 12:36:39 PM
The Minnesota deal would be Bullock, Knox, Smith and Portis for Wiggins and a #2 pick.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 21, 2019, 12:40:03 PM
Not 1 percent far fetched, and I guarantee you, we're not spending this holiday season

concocting "blockbuster" trade deals around Reggie Fucking Bullock



*** anything far fetched about this, btw?
https://twitter.com/ClutchPointsApp/status/1206750546410893313 (https://twitter.com/ClutchPointsApp/status/1206750546410893313)

No magic. No mystery. No nothing. Just simple competency demanded from an NBA front-office.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 21, 2019, 12:52:30 PM
Reg is just salary filler

Budenh---- has some issues.  Currently he is allowing his zillion dollar superstar to mimic pro wrestling moves prior to contests

I am interested to see it play out in Milwaukee. 

Not a real good press guy.  Was a concern in NY.

Toronto also passed on him
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 21, 2019, 12:55:26 PM
Don't think too hard. Carlyle wasn't available. Nor Pops. Nor Spo. Nor Nick Nurse.

The only team to beat the Budenholzer-coached Giannis team since early November is the Luca-less Zinga-led Mavs.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 21, 2019, 01:00:40 PM
Bud had lost 3 of his previous 4 series with Hawks......

and was not a hit with ATL media prior to his departure.

ATL was thrilled to give him permission to leave.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 21, 2019, 01:01:12 PM
Then he loses last year to TOR.  Lost 4 straight.

May again this year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 21, 2019, 01:03:03 PM
So maybe he ain't Red Auerbach.

Still say we're celebrating one fat fucking Christmas this year.

For a change.


*** All that said, looking forward to tonight's game. Fully expected last night's smack down from Spo & co. The game before was fool's gold. Everybody, after all, scores 140 against Atlanta. Let's see if we can be a little more competitive this eve.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 21, 2019, 01:04:44 PM
More blame has to go to KP - sorry

I dont think the Fizdale hire was a good one.  Didnt from day one.  So at least we are somewhat in agreement there.

Cheers
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 21, 2019, 01:07:56 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 21, 2019, 02:34:53 AM
ESPN headline:
Heat ease past Knicks, lead wire-to-wire in 129-114 win

 I think they're mixing up easily with easing.


Heat beat Knicks with ease
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 21, 2019, 01:12:45 PM
KP ain't blameless, for sure — but I see managing your chuckleheads as just another part of that baseline competency required in the present-day NBA.

It didn't happen.

Sad that the really far-fetched thing might be having baseline competency going forward at MSG.

But should we get it, maybe we'll finally be celebrating next X-mas.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 21, 2019, 01:25:57 PM
Lesson should be learned

When I am not 100% behind a white guy in NY, something is amiss.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 21, 2019, 01:27:28 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 21, 2019, 01:07:56 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 21, 2019, 02:34:53 AM
ESPN headline:
Heat ease past Knicks, lead wire-to-wire in 129-114 win

 I think they're mixing up easily with easing.


Heat beat Knicks with ease

Yeah, not sure what Bo was getting at there

I think he was adversely affected by the THJ barrage....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 21, 2019, 01:34:56 PM
The new white (NY) hopes -

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/deni-avdija/

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/nico-mannion/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 21, 2019, 01:59:54 PM
with ease = easily

ease past = slipping by
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 21, 2019, 02:02:48 PM
Tim Jr. Last 10 Games
0-1 made 3 Pointers: 5 games
2-3 made 3 Pointers: 2
5+ Made 3-Pointers:  3
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 21, 2019, 08:21:42 PM
Trade down off of Knox - for Divincenzo PLUS

How's that looking?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 22, 2019, 12:26:15 AM
Iffy.

I'd say no thanks ...

Knox 19 Pts, 4 Boards, 3 Blocks, 2 Steals and a team high +8 (in a blowout loss) all in 24 minutes.

So I wonder why Elf started.  MIL doesn't even use a PG with Bled out.  Maybe coach was afraid of a blowout loss of the sort that sent Fizz packing(?)   Or maybe it's just the Knick slow 1Q starts.  Certainly didn't change anything -- Knix down 14 after 1Q ...


I don't think playing 3 PG's is tenable.
I'd send Jr. Smith or Franc down to the Gleague to get mucho reps.  Though I realize that's not how the NBA does things.  And actually I think you'd need their agreement, since they are both 3rd year players.  But I'd only play 2 and instead of having the 3rd sit and DNP, I'd have him getting 30 mins a night running a team (just in the burbs).  I think that would be good for Franc to act as a table setter and scorer; good for Smith to regain confidence and work on his outside shot in real game situations.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 22, 2019, 01:41:56 AM
Saw the Heat game in Miami Friday night. Close to the floor so everything seemed lightning fast. The Heat's young talent (Nunn, Robinson, Jones Jr., Adebayo, et al) is amazing. I mean, what the fuck? That offense moves beautifully. There couldn't be a stronger contrast to the Knicks who looked bloody awful, and whose offensive sequences were both boring and inept. They managed to lose the game within 5 minutes.

Some brief glimmers of pleasure watching Robinson, and Portis happened to be hot in the 2nd half, but everything else was embarrassing. Just uncompetitive. And at the risk of beating a dead horse, Frank clearly looked like the weakest of the weak. Just one cringe-worthy play after another. Payton is no all star, but at least he runs like an NBA guard with good vision and an aggressive motor. Can we at least agree that Frank seems to be regressing instead of moving forward? In retrospect, playing a year in Westchester might really have helped the guy. Who know? But if he's your starting guard, something is terribly wrong.

For such a bad team, at least the Knicks still seem to have decent morale with the guys on the bench genuinely pulling for one another. It will be interesting to see how long that endures if they keep losing like this.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 22, 2019, 08:01:41 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 21, 2019, 08:21:42 PM
Trade down off of Knox - for Divincenzo PLUS

How's that looking?

Dubious

[Cough...knew this was coming with Biblical certitude when DD went off against the Knicks vaunted 3-point defense]

Might I suggest you get a grip on your white boy fixation.  Nice player, to be sure...however...

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/grahade01.html (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/grahade01.html)

Devonte Graham.  WAY MORE impressive. 

Shooting roughly 40% from trey this season. 
Title: Bo D
Post by: chipstern on December 22, 2019, 08:38:15 AM
Still mulling over your Spencer Dinwiddie trade. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on December 22, 2019, 08:42:46 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 22, 2019, 12:26:15 AM


So I wonder why Elf started.  MIL doesn't even use a PG with Bled out.  Maybe coach was afraid of a blowout loss of the sort that sent Fizz packing(?)   Or maybe it's just the Knick slow 1Q starts.  Certainly didn't change anything -- Knix down 14 after 1Q ...


I don't think playing 3 PG's is tenable.
I'd send Jr. Smith or Franc down to the Gleague to get mucho reps.  Though I realize that's not how the NBA does things.  And actually I think you'd need their agreement, since they are both 3rd year players.  But I'd only play 2 and instead of having the 3rd sit and DNP, I'd have him getting 30 mins a night running a team (just in the burbs).  I think that would be good for Franc to act as a table setter and scorer; good for Smith to regain confidence and work on his outside shot in real game situations.

I think its load management of 3 PGs.  Frankie started Miami and Milw a back to back. Makes sense.  DSJ got a little more exposure.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 22, 2019, 12:40:59 PM
Knox 19 Pts, 4 Boards, 3 Blocks, 2 Steals and a team high +8 (in a blowout loss) all in 24 minutes.


Knox doesn't seem to make winning plays

Let me know if that statline comes up

a)  in a close win

b)  more than twice in a month

Donte is better.  Shit happens - they took the guy that was slightly taller and had longer arms
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 22, 2019, 01:18:08 PM


I don't think playing 3 PG's is tenable.
I'd send Jr. Smith or Franc down to the Gleague to get mucho reps.  Though I realize that's not how the NBA does things.  And actually I think you'd need their agreement, since they are both 3rd year players.  But I'd only play 2 and instead of having the 3rd sit and DNP, I'd have him getting 30 mins a night running a team (just in the burbs).  I think that would be good for Franc to act as a table setter and scorer; good for Smith to regain confidence and work on his outside shot in real game situations

I dont think not playing every game will stunt anyon'es development

Damage was already done with the fragile Smith - anyone's guess if the confidence can be built back up.

Elfrid, though still young - is already a fairly finished product - and the deserving starter moving forward. 

Frank will roll with whatever.... and I guess that is a feather in his cap.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 22, 2019, 01:55:53 PM
[Cough...knew this was coming with Biblical certitude when DD went off against the Knicks vaunted 3-point defense]


Had nothing to do with last night
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 22, 2019, 01:58:14 PM
So I wonder why Elf started.  MIL doesn't even use a PG with Bled out.  Maybe coach was afraid of a blowout loss of the sort that sent Fizz packing(?)   Or maybe it's just the Knick slow 1Q starts.  Certainly didn't change anything -- Knix down 14 after 1Q ...


Good site for future reference re:  player moves

https://www.rotoworld.com/basketball/nba/player/30434/frank-ntilikina
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 22, 2019, 03:25:04 PM
Devonte Graham.  WAY MORE impressive.


Maybe, for now.

I hadn't touted Graham as the trade down pick but did mention him pre draft.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 22, 2019, 04:06:51 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 21, 2019, 12:36:39 PM
The Minnesota deal would be Bullock, Knox, Smith and Portis for Wiggins and a #2 pick.


33 for Wiggins last night

Having a fine season, as Chip would say.

Not certain Minnesota would deal him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 22, 2019, 05:21:23 PM
For such a bad team, at least the Knicks still seem to have decent morale with the guys on the bench genuinely pulling for one another. It will be interesting to see how long that endures if they keep losing like this.


Sometimes this can go along with little accountability.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on December 22, 2019, 07:37:15 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 22, 2019, 12:40:59 PM
Knox 19 Pts, 4 Boards, 3 Blocks, 2 Steals and a team high +8 (in a blowout loss) all in 24 minutes.


Knox doesn't seem to make winning plays

Let me know if that statline comes up

a)  in a close win

b)  more than twice in a month

Donte is better.  Shit happens - they took the guy that was slightly taller and had longer arms

My problem with Knox's stats is that he was scoring late in the games when nobody cared.

I'm a bit frustrated by the entire front court and Knox strikes me as a candidate for trade if we can upgrade the position with a different youngster.

Yes, he's young but there are some motor and attention deficit issues there based strictly on watching him play games.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on December 22, 2019, 07:42:32 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 22, 2019, 01:18:08 PM


I don't think playing 3 PG's is tenable.
I'd send Jr. Smith or Franc down to the Gleague to get mucho reps.  Though I realize that's not how the NBA does things.  And actually I think you'd need their agreement, since they are both 3rd year players.  But I'd only play 2 and instead of having the 3rd sit and DNP, I'd have him getting 30 mins a night running a team (just in the burbs).  I think that would be good for Franc to act as a table setter and scorer; good for Smith to regain confidence and work on his outside shot in real game situations

I dont think not playing every game will stunt anyon'es development

Damage was already done with the fragile Smith - anyone's guess if the confidence can be built back up.

Elfrid, though still young - is already a fairly finished product - and the deserving starter moving forward. 

Frank will roll with whatever.... and I guess that is a feather in his cap.


What if DSJ isn't fragile?  What if all the talk and public relations about fixing his shot and working hard this summer was just bullshit?  And what if its an unfixable attitude that's holding him back?

During last night's contest I saw him dribble up court and just chuck one up as if that were his natural instinct.  Scary bad self-centered, decision-making.

As for Frank, this year's Payton will be what Frank plays like either second-half or next year  They are look-alike players with Elfrid simply having more experience under his belt.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on December 22, 2019, 07:43:47 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 22, 2019, 01:58:14 PM
So I wonder why Elf started.  MIL doesn't even use a PG with Bled out.  Maybe coach was afraid of a blowout loss of the sort that sent Fizz packing(?)   Or maybe it's just the Knick slow 1Q starts.  Certainly didn't change anything -- Knix down 14 after 1Q ...


Good site for future reference re:  player moves

https://www.rotoworld.com/basketball/nba/player/30434/frank-ntilikina

I wouldn't wipe my ass with this "reference".  You think just "waiving" Ntilikina is sage advice?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 23, 2019, 02:16:54 AM
Jr. Smith had a back injury, and then his stepmom who raised him died.  So it's understandable if his focus and preparation have been underwhelming.  Tough times.  I wouldn't give in to any Sell Low impulses. 

I could see a few weeks in Westchester being good for Franc.  Get him out of hesitancy mode.  Force him to make quick decisions, shoot the ball, run an offense with confidence. 

Similarly, Suburb Knix could help Smith get his rhythm and confidence back. 

Would give us the benefit of 2 PG's, and hopefully get both Franc and Smith better.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 23, 2019, 03:18:15 AM
Sure seems like there are fewer upsets this year than in the past.
Seems everyday the results are pretty predictable.
Even when a weaker team wins it seems largely due to schedule, home-road, or stars out due to injury or rest.

Seems a fairly predictable year.  Good teams win; poor teams lose.

Also, for those who haven't noticed the East has caught up to the West.  7 teams playing .500 or better in both conferences.  And that's only due to OKC's recent win streak.  The inter-conference record is about dead even -- the other day someone reported the East was ahead 76-75.

So those years of fretting and wanting to change the playoff seedings and such seem misguided and forgotten.  Once they got LeBron into the West, everything balanced out <joking>.
Giannis developed; '6ers got processed; TOR and BOS built smartly; INDy is somehow consistently good; MIA turned the corner.

It's a wide open year, but again feels like the Good Teams and the Weak Sisters are as clearly delineated as ever.  Very few teams in that middling middle median.  Just the Nets and OKC really.
(Portland is there sue to injuries -- but Nurk and Zach will return at some point).

#6 seed Pacers .667 winning %
#8 seed Magic   .414

#6 seed U-Jazz     .621
#9 seed SacKings  .414
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 23, 2019, 04:28:28 AM
TOR was down by 30 in the 3Q.
Scored 47 4Q Pts.
Lowry and 4 bench guys seem to have done it.
Somebody perhaps named Malcolm Miller went 0-4 FG for 0 Pts and yet was a +29 in 17 minutes!
Lowry had 20 4Q pts, one shy of DAL team.

Both teams missing key players.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 23, 2019, 06:18:11 AM
Quote from: FWK00 on December 22, 2019, 07:43:47 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 22, 2019, 01:58:14 PM
So I wonder why Elf started.  MIL doesn't even use a PG with Bled out.  Maybe coach was afraid of a blowout loss of the sort that sent Fizz packing(?)   Or maybe it's just the Knick slow 1Q starts.  Certainly didn't change anything -- Knix down 14 after 1Q ...


Good site for future reference re:  player moves

https://www.rotoworld.com/basketball/nba/player/30434/frank-ntilikina

I wouldn't wipe my ass with this "reference".  You think just "waiving" Ntilikina is sage advice?

Thanks FWK. 

From God's lips to your butt...

PS: In Kiid's Omniverse, Frank, among other things, is pigment challenged. 
Title: Knox
Post by: chipstern on December 23, 2019, 06:44:56 AM
Has been evolving. 

His motor. 

His focus. 

His defense (blocking a fair number of shots). 

His offense (varying his attack, driving to the hoop, creating space, besides launching treys). 

He has played, what, a year and two months, has been coming off the bench behind MM, and a significant quorum of informed fans are ready to ship him out of town? 

Sigh. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 23, 2019, 09:31:42 AM
 Heh

You guys crack me up.  The Frank analysis - the waiving - was for fantasy leagues
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 23, 2019, 09:35:03 AM
Ship Knox out of town, Chip?  Just to get rid of him?

Nah

This was for Wiggins

Maybe you favor just reupping Marcus M.  That's fine.

18 mil per.  Saves us 10 from Andrew.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 23, 2019, 09:52:20 AM
I think Minny would be happy to offload Wiggy.
They're losing and he isn't worth his contract.
Don't think NYK should take him on.
His D is poor and we don't have the structure to put around him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 23, 2019, 10:13:54 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 23, 2019, 09:35:03 AM
Ship Knox out of town, Chip?  Just to get rid of him?

Nah

This was for Wiggins

Maybe you favor just reupping Marcus M.  That's fine.

18 mil per.  Saves us 10 from Andrew.

I'm open to re-upping MM. 

Wiggins? 

Baffles me.  Puts up decent numbers, for sure, though not commensurate with his rate of pay [27, 29, 31, 33 million through 2023].  Be that as it may, he is skilled but oddly not in an impactful way. 

People talk about Kevin Knox seeming oddly disengaged.  Wiggins makes Knox look like a cross between Jimmy Butler and Kevin Garnett. 

Their games are actually kind of similar; Knox has better range on his trey. 

If we going to continue to suck, then taking on contracts like Wiggins seems pointless.  People are going out of their minds at the money we're giving Randle and Portis, who are good role players, but not bell cows.  We had a potential bell cow, but he is now in Dallas, for whatever reasons...spilt milk. 

Not that we have a shot in hell of getting Giannis Antetokounmpo or Anthony Davis in 2021. 

Might as well just keep grunting forward through the draft, hope we get lucky in the lottery, and try to make lemonade out of our lemons.   

Meanwhile...I really like RJ, but he baffles me.  This is a top tier athlete, who has competed at the highest levels, has great physical gifts, a positive winning demeanor, and is a willing passer and defender. 

But watching him tease us by nailing a couple of long threes, than clang a half dozen midrange jumpers in a row [.389 FG%], get to the line with consistency and then shoot free throws at a desultory .543% [73-133] clip?  RJ is basically giving us 14-5-3-1 a game in 32 minutes, which is not too shabby; still, while I really like him, I feel as though we are indulging him too much, not unlike how Fizz did with KK last season, and I believe, given the presence of Dotson and Trier, and the return of Reggie Bullock, that it may be time to raise the bar for him in terms of earning his minutes and not prematurely anoint him as the franchise. 
Title: Nobody Beats The Wiz
Post by: chipstern on December 23, 2019, 02:27:36 PM
Chris Iseman: Knicks say Marcus Morris (sore left Achilles) is doubtful for tonight. Taj Gibson (illness) is questionable. Wayne Ellington is still out. – via Twitter ChrisIseman

Well, maybe the KNICKS beat the Wiz.  We shall see. 

With MM and Taj out, likely see more of RJ at SF, perhaps in a small ball lineup with KK at the 4 and Portis at the 5...have to wonder, as per Kiid, if RJ might be better suited match-up & sill wise at the 3 than the 2. 

Payton to start, and I would hope DJ to spell him, with Frank splitting minutes with DD and Trier at the 2. 

I am pulling for Trier.  We need offense, he has demonstrated a willingness to not dominate the ball....but when called upon, with a squad that cannot shoot particularly well, someone who can generate offense?  Who can drain threes at a 40% clip and free throws at roughly 80%?  Hello. 

Robinson-Randle-RJ-Trier-Payton

Portis-Knox-Dotson-Frank-Dennis

But hey, what do I know? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 23, 2019, 04:15:45 PM
Wiggins can reach as high a level as Porzingis.  Minnesota paid on the come - and Wigs is having a nice year.

If Knox gets to there I will be pleasantly surprised
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 24, 2019, 12:53:57 AM
James Harden and Russell Westbrook will be the 49th and 50th players in NBA history to score 20000 points.

Andrew Wiggins is on pace to be at around 18000 by his 30th birthday

If he keeps the pace and plays til age 35 he will be in the top 20 alltime.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 24, 2019, 03:53:03 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 23, 2019, 04:15:45 PM
Wiggins can reach as high a level as Porzingis.  Minnesota paid on the come - and Wigs is having a nice year.

Uncle Wiggly:
4 Games October: 42% FG & 22% on 3's
11  in  November: 48% FG & 40% on 3's
10 for December : 43% FG & 30% on 3's

Basically Wiggy had a hot streak in NOV and has cooled off. His season average on 3's is 33.2% almost exactly his career average.  Rebounds, assists and blocks are up and at career highs.  Partly the product of that hot streak.  But he seems more active and engaged.

As a 33% 3-baller and iffy D, I don't think Wiggins can come close to KZ.  KZ has a much nicer stroke and should up his long -distance averages as he goes along.  Also, KZ is a defensive force and blocks a lot and rim protects.

Maybe AW is maturing, but I wouldn't trust him.
Lotta points on losing teasms.
Title: Knicks Vs Wizards
Post by: chipstern on December 24, 2019, 08:26:25 AM
Go figure. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 24, 2019, 12:48:16 PM
 Wiggy ............. Rebounds, assists and blocks are up and at career highs. 

Points as well

You don't just fall out of bed and get 25 a night over 25-30 games.

Greater USAGE, yes - but that is due to capability, as with all 25+ scorers.

You don't have to like him.  Last I checked his forum isn't about pleasing you.
Title: Re: Knicks Vs Wizards
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 24, 2019, 12:54:05 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 24, 2019, 08:26:25 AM
Go figure.

Just looking at the box......

Apparently Knox and Smith were the low guys.  I think both these guys are gone by the deadline.

Payton needs to score more.  Barrett had a nice little bounce back.
Title: Re: Knicks Vs Wizards
Post by: chipstern on December 24, 2019, 02:30:13 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 24, 2019, 12:54:05 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 24, 2019, 08:26:25 AM
Go figure.

Just looking at the box......

Apparently Knox and Smith were the low guys.  I think both these guys are gone by the deadline.

Payton needs to score more.  Barrett had a nice little bounce back.

PuhLeese. 

Smith?

Perhaps. 

Knox?

Nope. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 24, 2019, 03:22:57 PM
LOL, they were both pretty awful.

Significant minutes for either at this point means it's pretty much a lock that you will lose the game.

Doesn't really matter I guess.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 24, 2019, 03:27:34 PM
I haven't been able to watch the last two games.
Judging from the box and the game flow we were good at first and good at last but awful in between.
Frank with the usual Frank statline.
Knox starting for Morris. Did not do much.
What's wrong with Morris?  Are we trading him?
This team needs Morris to have a chance of winning games.
Title: Meh?
Post by: chipstern on December 24, 2019, 04:07:34 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on December 24, 2019, 03:22:57 PM
LOL, they were both pretty awful.

Significant minutes for either at this point means it's pretty much a lock that you will lose the game.

Doesn't really matter I guess.

Is feeling that way, ain't it. 

Grasping at straws at this point. 

RJ with a bounce back.  Likely followed by a suck out, then another bounce back.  Kid has character.  And a lot of work to do. 

Payton looking like a keeper.  Challenged as a shooter, but a solid rudder. 

Randle with a solid stat line. 

Dotson a step forward. 

But collectively...sluggish and out of sync.  Weird. 

Can't even work up a head of steam to get all bent out of shape. 

The "PROCESS" such as it is, will be slow and painful and centered on YUTE and draft picks, because cap space be damned, out free agent projection is pretty much null and void. 

I mean, Kiid fantasizing about Andrew Wiggins?  Meh.  His stat lines surely have improved, but signifying WHAT exactly?  Trade half our team for a savior Kiid?  Playing with KAT at center, no less, and they are 10-17.

Not exactly the second coming of Bernard King. 

Christ, how the mighty have fallen. 

Oh, well. 

To be a Knicks fan, is to suffer. 

Nothing left but to entertain trades, fantasize about the lottery and eviscerate Coach Miller. 

My PomPoms are wilting. 

Onwards. 
Title: PP Club
Post by: carlos123 on December 24, 2019, 05:12:28 PM
C’mon Chip, you’re POSITIVE PUSSY #1. Can’t let your PomPoms wilt quite yet.

And I still believe in coach Miller. He ain’t no phony like Phizz, he makes sense when he speaks, can diagram plays out of timeouts and has to work with what he’s got, which ain’t much. This team not winning games without Morris, regardless of coach.

PS. I just don’t see a realistic trade that would help us at this point.
Title: Re: PP Club
Post by: chipstern on December 24, 2019, 06:22:12 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 24, 2019, 05:12:28 PM
C’mon Chip, you’re POSITIVE PUSSY #1. Can’t let your PomPoms wilt quite yet.

And I still believe in coach Miller. He ain’t no phony like Phizz, he makes sense when he speaks, can diagram plays out of timeouts and has to work with what he’s got, which ain’t much. This team not winning games without Morris, regardless of coach.

PS. I just don’t see a realistic trade that would help us at this point.

Neither do I. 

Shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic. 

Draft picks at best. 

PS: When is Mitchell Robinson going to take a jump shot from the top of the key?  Why the fuck not.  What can he do?  MISS?  Open up lanes to cutters like Payton and Barrett if teams have to account for the eventuality MR won't simply hold on to the rock. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 25, 2019, 12:42:12 AM
Cavs trade Clarkson to the Jazz for Exum and 2 2nd rounders. The ice has broken. Trade season has begun.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 25, 2019, 01:03:01 AM
I like that the Jazz are trying to shake things up.
Exum was never good, always injured and they shouldn't have given him a 3/$36M contract or whatever it was.  Clarkson is sloppy, but can go on scoring binges.  And is healthy and expiring.

UTEs also waived Jeff Green after discovering he has Tm Thomas Disease.  And added a guy who was tearing up the GLeague.

Conley has been injured a lot, hasn't fit that well when he played.  and UTA has a weak bench.  They they addressed the bench by adding Clarkson's gunning and the G-League fireball.

Bogdanovich has been a great fit, but then Jingles went into a funk. 

Spo the idea is to get Conley healthy and integrated, and hope the extra scoring on the bench helps.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 25, 2019, 04:58:43 AM
Just digging a little more.  Wiggins scorching NOV came mostly against weak sisters.   8 of 11 games against non-playoff teams.

Against better competition in DEC (6 of 10 playoff teams), Wiggy has shot 30% on 3's and averaged more turnovers than assists (3.4 - 2.9).  Last 5 games Wigs has averaged 4.4 turnovers (4+ in each game).

And his team has lost 10 in a row.  0-for-December.
My mistake: 11 in a row.

Easy schedule upcoming with 5 of 7 against weak teams.
Title: Be Careful What You Wish For
Post by: chipstern on December 25, 2019, 08:37:03 AM
Just for Giggles.

Kyrie Irving, when healthy [When HEALTHY] is a seven-testicled motherfucker, of that there is no doubt. 

Brooklyn, riddled with injuries, has played 29 games this season and is 16-13.

Kyrie has played 11 games. 

In eight previous seasons: 51, 59, 71, 75, 53, 72, 60, 67.

When he has played, a motherfucker: 28.5 ppg, 5.4 boards, 7.2 assists, .937 FT%.

Yikes.

Didwiddie: 22.7 ppg, 2.9 boards, 6.2 assists, .836 FT%.   Keeps getting better. 

Our own Dennis Smith?

On a decidedly negative trajectory. 

Oh, well...

PS: Ironically, when Irving was on track, as the POST points out, for career best numbers, the Nyets were 4-7 with him in the lineup, and 12-6 with Dinwiddie manning the point.  Interesting, no?  One can imagine Knicks fans in the throes of despair with Durant in street clothes, Irving barely on the mend, and the losses mounting.  Oh, wait, the losses ARE MOUNTING.  My bad. 

PPS: The lesson?  Be careful what you wish for. 

PPPS: The Nyets were patient, very patient, and proactive with Dinwiddie, and he has gotten better and better EVERY YEAR. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on December 25, 2019, 09:57:30 AM
Whether you celebrate Festivus, X-Mas, Chanukah or Kwanza

Happy Holidays gents

and fwiw KI is more an acquired taste, he goes well with a solid main course, but you can't plan the meal around him.

and its

'fuck, we're having Kyrie again tonight??
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 25, 2019, 01:19:27 PM
4 team moneyline parlay

Missed theCelts game

Taking Philly as 3 point underdog

Lakers.  Houston.  Denver.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 25, 2019, 01:38:33 PM
Have no idea how Dinwiddie factors into any conversation here
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on December 25, 2019, 02:36:22 PM
Christmas Day 1985 I and my then fiancee were in MSG and watched the Celts lose a 20+ point lead in a 2OT loss to the Knicks.

It was an omen.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on December 25, 2019, 02:39:18 PM
I've seen Philly play a few times this year and generally have been underwhelmed,
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 25, 2019, 02:49:00 PM
Tatum shooting it like Simmons these days
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on December 25, 2019, 03:23:59 PM
heh

cherry picking the fruit cake, kid?

Tatum had a rough shooting game today after 3 pretty solid games.

Steal of a pick by Ainge.
Title: Enes
Post by: carlos123 on December 25, 2019, 03:33:39 PM
I like how Kanter is playing consistently well for the C’s in limited minutes off the bench.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 25, 2019, 03:33:56 PM
Any George Hill love these days?  Looks pretty good.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 25, 2019, 03:35:59 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on December 25, 2019, 03:23:59 PM
heh

cherry picking the fruit cake, kid?



Nah

Down year

I knew he was about at peak earlier
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on December 25, 2019, 03:45:41 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 25, 2019, 03:35:59 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on December 25, 2019, 03:23:59 PM
heh

cherry picking the fruit cake, kid?



Nah

Down year

I knew he was about at peak earlier

Down year?

his points, assists, rebound have gone up every year.

this year clse to 22ppg with 7 boards.

he's going to be a star/all-star in the Association for a long time

Kid you've been consistently clueless and wrong about Tatum from his draft day to today.

Title: Re: Enes
Post by: bankshot1 on December 25, 2019, 03:47:24 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 25, 2019, 03:33:39 PM
I like how Kanter is playing consistently well for the C’s in limited minutes off the bench.

He's generally played pretty well. Better than I thought. His D is a little shaky, but he can board.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on December 25, 2019, 03:50:29 PM
Embiid with his "ABC" game.

he plays to the spotlight.

sometimes
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 25, 2019, 04:03:31 PM
I loved Tatum predraft.  Excellent player.  Stop misrepresenting.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on December 25, 2019, 04:17:22 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 25, 2019, 04:03:31 PM
I loved Tatum predraft.  Excellent player.  Stop misrepresenting.

Kid you're the only one misrepresenting.

You were anti-Tatum for the first half of his rookie year, and killed Ainge for the trade.

Then you STFU as it became obvious he was a special talent, and Ainge pantsed the 76ers.

He's got nothing but better, but he has an off-shooting night, and you resume your ill-conceived and stupid attack.

SSDD

 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on December 25, 2019, 04:34:55 PM
At least we don't hear about the generational player that Lonzo Ball is quite as much anymore.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 25, 2019, 04:41:36 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 25, 2019, 03:33:56 PM
Any George Hill love these days?  Looks pretty good.

The issue was NEVER George Hill. 

It was George Hill for 20 Million. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 25, 2019, 04:42:08 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 25, 2019, 01:38:33 PM
Have no idea how Dinwiddie factors into any conversation here

You haven't been keeping up with BoD's thread?

Tsk Tsk. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on December 25, 2019, 04:42:21 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on December 25, 2019, 04:34:55 PM
At least we don't hear about the generational player that Lonzo Ball is quite as much anymore.

kid's still pissed he got his collection of Lonzo Big Baller sneakers just in Laker colors
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 25, 2019, 04:44:30 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on December 25, 2019, 04:34:55 PM
At least we don't hear about the generational player that Lonzo Ball is quite as much anymore.

[Crickets]

His brother will soon be touted as a can't miss Knicks #1 pick. 

PS: Don't try and re-write your history on Tatum, Kiid.  Some of us still retain our cognitive functions. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 25, 2019, 04:56:47 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on December 25, 2019, 04:17:22 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 25, 2019, 04:03:31 PM
I loved Tatum predraft.  Excellent player.  Stop misrepresenting.

Kid you're the only one misrepresenting.

You were anti-Tatum for the first half of his rookie year, and killed Ainge for the trade.

Then you STFU as it became obvious he was a special talent, and Ainge pantsed the 76ers.

He's got nothing but better, but he has an off-shooting night, and you resume your ill-conceived and stupid attack.

SSDD

 

I was antitrade. And anti-Tatum only in reference to how the Celts could/should have proceeded

Have always been pro Tatum as an NBA talent.  Touted him big pre draft.  Just not number 1.   I will leave it up to you to judge his award worthiness moving forward.  That's not my bag unless I think someone got royally screwed
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 25, 2019, 05:05:33 PM
By the way, you have been corrected on this multiple times
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on December 25, 2019, 05:26:53 PM
kid you can't correct anyone on this subject,a subject that you have been consistently wrong about for the past 3 years."

And kid you have not been a Tatum fan on this board. Most of us here read your posts. Others wisely are more judicious with their time.

so stop bullshitting.

But given your newly admitted admiration of the Celtic-star, please explain your post several mnutes ago, critcizing Tatum for having a "down year". As I noted his points, boards assists have all risen every year for the past 3 years.

The facts seem to contradict your analysis.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 25, 2019, 06:22:50 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 25, 2019, 04:41:36 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 25, 2019, 03:33:56 PM
Any George Hill love these days?  Looks pretty good.

The issue was NEVER George Hill. 

It was George Hill for 20 Million.

Heh

I don't remember the value Phil attached to Hill at the time

Could have used him
Title: Re: Meh?
Post by: elephant on December 25, 2019, 06:28:40 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 24, 2019, 04:07:34 PM

Payton looking like a keeper.  Challenged as a shooter, but a solid rudder. 


Our challenged shooter is shooting better than our other guards.

Which is a problem. We need somebody else.

I don't have any obvious trades that will help us, but what about the un-obvious ones? Doesn't anyone in the organization have an eye for emerging talent?
Title: Re: Meh?
Post by: chipstern on December 25, 2019, 06:47:14 PM
Quote from: elephant on December 25, 2019, 06:28:40 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 24, 2019, 04:07:34 PM

Payton looking like a keeper.  Challenged as a shooter, but a solid rudder. 


Our challenged shooter is shooting better than our other guards.

Which is a problem. We need somebody else.

I don't have any obvious trades that will help us, but what about the un-obvious ones? Doesn't anyone in the organization have an eye for emerging talent?

Perhaps we can make a deal for Lonzo Ball. 

.378 FG%

.338 3PT%

.500 FT%

5.3 assists

4.8 rebounds

Elfrid?

.393 FG%

.348 3PT%

.688 FT%

5.9 Assists

3.5 rebounds

Or perhaps not. 

On July 10, 2017, Hill signed a three-year deal worth a reported $57 million with the Sacramento Kings.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 25, 2019, 06:57:39 PM
Tatum sort of Wiggins-like

Celts will likely make same decision on big dollars that Minny made
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 25, 2019, 07:00:00 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 25, 2019, 04:44:30 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on December 25, 2019, 04:34:55 PM
At least we don't hear about the generational player that Lonzo Ball is quite as much anymore.

[Crickets]

His brother will soon be touted as a can't miss Knicks #1 pick. 

PS: Don't try and re-write your history on Tatum, Kiid.  Some of us still retain our cognitive functions.

Lonzo will be a free agent soon enough

Ball/Ball backcourt in NY.  Sign me up.  But I would likely take a different player in 2020 draft.  Not Lamelo.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on December 25, 2019, 07:18:07 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 25, 2019, 06:57:39 PM
Tatum sort of Wiggins-like

Celts will likely make same decision on big dollars that Minny made

heh

kid can't back-up his hot take on Tatum's "down year peaked" when he is challenged, so he changes the subject.

SSDD

and yes the Celts will max out Tatum to a 4/125 or whatever next year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 25, 2019, 07:34:18 PM
You are actually right.  I thought Tatum's low shooting % had his PER down.  Seems it is above first 2 years - and shot way up to 18.

Still... 42 per cent not what you are after
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on December 25, 2019, 07:58:21 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 25, 2019, 07:34:18 PM
You are actually right.  I thought Tatum's low shooting % had his PER down.  Seems it is above first 2 years - and shot way up to 18.

Still... 42 per cent not what you are after

See that wasn't hard admitting that you were wrong.

and Tatum will be pleased to know that he's not over the hill at 21 and still has some time to save his career.

heh
Title: Re: Meh?
Post by: FWK00 on December 25, 2019, 08:40:25 PM
Quote from: elephant on December 25, 2019, 06:28:40 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 24, 2019, 04:07:34 PM

Payton looking like a keeper.  Challenged as a shooter, but a solid rudder. 


Our challenged shooter is shooting better than our other guards.

Which is a problem. We need somebody else.

I don't have any obvious trades that will help us, but what about the un-obvious ones? Doesn't anyone in the organization have an eye for emerging talent?

Well, I think the process has slowed down to give Blatt an opportunity to evaluate our own talent.

As for me, I'd suggest three trades [obvious or not] that I think would be helpful.

1.) DSJ to Minn for Josh Okogie

2.) Randle, Portis, and Trier to Utah for Mike Conley and Royce O'Neale

3.) Ellington, Payton, and Knox to Portland for Bazemore, Simons, and Little

VVVVVVVVVVVVVVV

Conley, Ntilikina, Allen

Bullock, RJ, Dotson, Simons, O'Neale, Okogie

Bazemore, Little, Iggy

Morris, Gibson, Rabb

MR, Wooten
Title: Ball Dynasty
Post by: carlos123 on December 25, 2019, 09:44:16 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 25, 2019, 07:00:00 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 25, 2019, 04:44:30 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on December 25, 2019, 04:34:55 PM
At least we don't hear about the generational player that Lonzo Ball is quite as much anymore.

[Crickets]

His brother will soon be touted as a can't miss Knicks #1 pick. 


Lonzo will be a free agent soon enough

Ball/Ball backcourt in NY.  Sign me up.  But I would likely take a different player in 2020 draft.  Not Lamelo.

Yankguy, I'm afraid you re-opened one of the many Chico's cans of worms.

You know, he had sort of forgotten his Ball Dynasty...

(https://images.pristineauction.com/73/737078/main_1505755208-Lonzo-Ball-LaMelo-Ball-Dual-Signed-Slam-Magazine-JSA-COA-PristineAuction.com.jpeg)

(http://img.bleacherreport.net/img/article/media_slots/photos/002/753/422/hi-res-7761cc08e373dbe4f16a1e9aef13ff1b_crop_exact.jpg?w=650&h=432&q=85)
Title: Re: Meh?
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 25, 2019, 09:52:24 PM
Quote from: elephant on December 25, 2019, 06:28:40 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 24, 2019, 04:07:34 PM

Payton looking like a keeper.  Challenged as a shooter, but a solid rudder. 


Our challenged shooter is shooting better than our other guards.

Which is a problem. We need somebody else.

I don't have any obvious trades that will help us, but what about the un-obvious ones? Doesn't anyone in the organization have an eye for emerging talent?

No

Thats why we missed Dante
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 25, 2019, 09:58:18 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71D_q5w0oCk#action=share

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_29ErO_1mY

NBA comp:

Penny Hardaway
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 25, 2019, 10:05:45 PM
Or maybe you like some eminem

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KO_s_Ee0JWQ

Title: LaMelo BALL
Post by: carlos123 on December 25, 2019, 10:06:41 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 25, 2019, 09:58:18 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71D_q5w0oCk#action=share

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_29ErO_1mY

NBA comp:

Penny Hardaway

I told you this was gonna happen.
Title: Re: LaMelo BALL
Post by: Yankguy1 on December 25, 2019, 10:09:58 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 25, 2019, 10:06:41 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 25, 2019, 09:58:18 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71D_q5w0oCk#action=share

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_29ErO_1mY

NBA comp:

Penny Hardaway

I told you this was gonna happen.
Dammit. My bad.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 25, 2019, 10:18:38 PM
YG still hates Dwight Howard
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on December 25, 2019, 10:31:45 PM
Kid still loves Lonzo Ball.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 25, 2019, 10:52:30 PM
Yep - as a starter - a leader playing 32-36 minutes

Just give him a team to run.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on December 25, 2019, 10:56:57 PM
From generational talent to not good enough to start for the worst team in the West.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 25, 2019, 11:02:00 PM
He was filler in a trade to a team paying their pg astronomically

A miracle he gets to start.  But they cant move Jrue, I'd bet

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on December 25, 2019, 11:03:58 PM
From generational talent to filler in a trade.
Title: Re: Meh?
Post by: bodiddley on December 26, 2019, 03:00:33 AM
Quote from: FWK0
As for me, I'd suggest three trades [obvious or not] that I think would be helpful.

1.) DSJ to Minn for Josh Okogie

2.) Randle, Portis, and Trier to Utah for Mike Conley and Royce O'Neale

3.) Ellington, Payton, and Knox to Portland for Bazemore, Simons, and Little

Well, sure it'd be probably be helpful to make 3 lopsided trades in our favor.

1) Okogie starts for Mini.  Plays D.  Hustles.  Jr. Smith is a backup PG in a funk.  Could work out for them I suppose, but what an ugly gamble.  As someone said, they'd be offering us Layman or some minor ish for Smith's broken game.

2) Absurd trade. Unless they know Conley is permanently broken.  They just dumped Exum.  So they're handing the keys to Muddy?  Or reviving Trier at PG? 

They have Bogdonavich as a quality PF already.  What are they doing, following the successful Knick model of loading up on PF's and not having anybody who plays PG well? 

3) They'd have to really like Knox.  Who's shown flashes but is real young, erratic, and a poor defender, which ain't helping a Lillard led team.  Payton could be useful for them.  But they ain't cashing in their yute for that.

Okay, maybe I'm too harsh on #3.  But it's the kind of trade neither team likely makes.  Just doesn't address needs.
And teams should wonder why the Knix would be giving up on Knox if the return was just another young prospect.

Some of my trades might be a little wild at times, but at least I try to make sure the other teams get equal value and parts that fit.

I'd be up for dumping Randle and keeping Morris.  But contract-wise we're more likely to go the other way.  And I'd rather Sell High (MaMo) than Low (Orange&blue Julius).
Title: Re: Meh?
Post by: FWK00 on December 26, 2019, 08:09:39 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 26, 2019, 03:00:33 AM
Quote from: FWK0
As for me, I'd suggest three trades [obvious or not] that I think would be helpful.

1.) DSJ to Minn for Josh Okogie

2.) Randle, Portis, and Trier to Utah for Mike Conley and Royce O'Neale

3.) Ellington, Payton, and Knox to Portland for Bazemore, Simons, and Little

Well, sure it'd be probably be helpful to make 3 lopsided trades in our favor.

1) Okogie starts for Mini.  Plays D.  Hustles.  Jr. Smith is a backup PG in a funk.  Could work out for them I suppose, but what an ugly gamble.  As someone said, they'd be offering us Layman or some minor ish for Smith's broken game.

2) Absurd trade. Unless they know Conley is permanently broken.  They just dumped Exum.  So they're handing the keys to Muddy?  Or reviving Trier at PG? 

They have Bogdonavich as a quality PF already.  What are they doing, following the successful Knick model of loading up on PF's and not having anybody who plays PG well? 

3) They'd have to really like Knox.  Who's shown flashes but is real young, erratic, and a poor defender, which ain't helping a Lillard led team.  Payton could be useful for them.  But they ain't cashing in their yute for that.

Okay, maybe I'm too harsh on #3.  But it's the kind of trade neither team likely makes.  Just doesn't address needs.
And teams should wonder why the Knix would be giving up on Knox if the return was just another young prospect.

Some of my trades might be a little wild at times, but at least I try to make sure the other teams get equal value and parts that fit.

I'd be up for dumping Randle and keeping Morris.  But contract-wise we're more likely to go the other way.  And I'd rather Sell High (MaMo) than Low (Orange&blue Julius).
[/quote

That's pretty funny.  I tried to make them lop-sided the other way.  Had no idea Okogie even got off the bench.  Just looking for a no-name body.

Also assumed Utah might want to lose a big contract - they just traded for another PG.

Oh, well Bo.  You must be the better Gm.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 26, 2019, 09:13:12 AM
Clarkson isn't a PG, he's a Craw type combo-gunner.
And they did that move to dump Exum's money and get an expiring Clarkson.  Clarkson is intended to bolster their anemic bench.

Okogie started 52/74 games he played last year as a rook (#20 pick).  And 12/27 this year.  Nice hustle, defense, glue guy, and doesn't need the ball which is helpful with KAT and Wiggins out there (and Covington who doesn't get enough touches as it is).
 
Okogie needs to improve his 3-ball (he was starting to hit them okay, then ran into a 1-15 slump his last 5 games).  21 years old with a solid 6'4" body.  I liked him last year, haven't seen him this year, but most of his numbers are up a bit.

They drafted 6'6" Culver with the 6th overall pick.  And he's been starting over Okogie much of their losing streak.  Culver also 3-challenged (just 24%).  Kiid was ridiculing RJB the other day, but Culver's shooting splits are just 36% / 24% / 43%.   Kid thought Barrett's splits might be the worst ever, but here's a guy taken 3 spots behind him shooting across-the-board worse than RJB 39.4 / 31.1 / 54.9 in every category.   

Anyway, I think Okogie is a reasonably valuable player.  If he can make open 3's, he'd be a nice player.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 26, 2019, 09:14:14 AM
I was wondering if there's someway we can get Iguodala and then flip him to a playoff team.  We have pieces MEMf can use.  Or if we can be in a 3-way for Iggy.  Lakes don't have much to trade (which is why they can't make a deal directly with the Griz).
But HOU could give us House or McLemore.  Not great, but better than our current SG's.  And if DEN is interested, they have guys we can use (and probably Memf could as well).

Quote
"We got bullied on the boards. They dominated us with their physicality," Nuggets coach Michael Malone said. "We don't have a match-up for Ingram. So I've got to do a better job helping our guys out."

Well, if DEN can't guard Ingram, they certainly have no answer for LeBJ, Kawhi, PG etc.  As I've been saying.  So they should want Morris or Iggy (though they probably could get Iggy without our help).
Title: Latest RUMOR
Post by: chipstern on December 26, 2019, 09:43:29 AM
Marc Berman, clearly off his meds, is not a piker like BoD and FWK. 

When he concocts a phantasmagorical trade scenario for our Knucks to pursue, well...bow your heads in shame and awe, Trader Vics of this forum. 

KARL

ANTHONY

TOWNS. 

And to all a goodnight. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 26, 2019, 10:08:07 AM
Unfortunately, KAT already signed an extension and is having a career year.  Be a great guy to land/build around.
Maybe with MINN struggling try to see what it would take to get Covington.  Strong 2-way player on a cheap contract.

I ran into one site with some not terribly appealing Knick trade ideas.  This was their best (https://hoopshabit.com/2019/12/21/new-york-knicks-5-possible-trade-scenarios/5/):

KNICKS get
AARON GORDON
D.J. AUGUSTIN

MAGIC get
DENNIS SMITH JR.
GORAN DRAGIC
DERRICK JONES JR.

HEAT get
JULIUS RANDLE
WESLEY IWUNDU

I'm not a Gordon fan, but I'd take him over Randle.  Gordon is long and bouncy and switchable.  The author seems to think Randle is a great fit in Spoelstraland.  Though I thought they like to keep the ball moving and play hard-nosed D.

I realize Dragic is always injured, and MIA has compensated, but I imagine they'd want an actual PG on their roster.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 26, 2019, 10:15:59 AM
You like HARDLY ANYBODY
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 26, 2019, 10:36:54 AM
I like almost everyone on BOS and LAC ...
And most of INDy, UTA, MIA, TOR.

Speaking of MINNy above, KG is in a newly released Safdie Brothers film, Uncut Gems, starring Adam Sandler.  Getting good reviews, and Garnett supposedly has a small pivotal role and is quite good in it.  I think it's a gambling or maybe heist film.

Kam seems to be our go-to film guy.  Maybe he'll see it and report back.  Shanghai used to have dvd shops everywhere, but the last three I knew of all closed this year between April and Sept.  No idea where to buy a cheap DVd anymore, which is a sea change for Shanghai.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on December 26, 2019, 12:01:38 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 26, 2019, 10:36:54 AM
I like almost everyone on BOS and LAC ...
And most of INDy, UTA, MIA, TOR.

Speaking of MINNy above, KG is in a newly released Safdie Brothers film, Uncut Gems, starring Adam Sandler.  Getting good reviews, and Garnett supposedly has a small pivotal role and is quite good in it.  I think it's a gambling or maybe heist film.

Kam seems to be our go-to film guy.  Maybe he'll see it and report back.  Shanghai used to have dvd shops everywhere, but the last three I knew of all closed this year between April and Sept.  No idea where to buy a cheap DVd anymore, which is a sea change for Shanghai.

Re Uncut Gems-haven't seen it yet, but probably will, and it centers around NYC diamond trade and illegal gambling/bookies-its gotten pretty good reviews

Sandler and KG recently did a podcast with Bill Simmons that was very entertaining

https://www.theringer.com/the-bill-simmons-podcast/2019/12/18/21027458/adam-sandler-and-kevin-garnett-on-uncut-gems-and-the-iverson-era (https://www.theringer.com/the-bill-simmons-podcast/2019/12/18/21027458/adam-sandler-and-kevin-garnett-on-uncut-gems-and-the-iverson-era)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on December 26, 2019, 12:53:04 PM
 I saw Uncut Gems. Very good, very intense and a decent way to break my long-held vow to never spend a cent on an Adam Sandler movie.
Title: Trader Vic's
Post by: chipstern on December 26, 2019, 04:25:15 PM
(https://s.hdnux.com/photos/10/66/41/2320495/9/920x920.jpg)


Accept no substitutes. 

Title: Re: Trader Vic's
Post by: bankshot1 on December 26, 2019, 07:05:33 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 26, 2019, 04:25:15 PM
(https://s.hdnux.com/photos/10/66/41/2320495/9/920x920.jpg)


Accept no substitutes.

WBW-my parents took their 3 kids to NYC for the 1964 World Fair and we had a blast. But for all the exotic and wonderful exhibits giving us a glimpse of the future, and all the world's strange and unusual gustatory delights (who knew about Belgian Waffles?) gathered in Queens for the World's Fair, this 13 year old, was totally blown away by Trader Vic's, truly the most exotic place in the world. Drinking punch from a skeleton mug while dining on authentic Polynesian poo-poo platters -how cool was that?

The place was over the top great.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on December 26, 2019, 07:40:26 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 26, 2019, 09:13:12 AM
Clarkson isn't a PG, he's a Craw type combo-gunner.
And they did that move to dump Exum's money and get an expiring Clarkson.  Clarkson is intended to bolster their anemic bench.

Okogie started 52/74 games he played last year as a rook (#20 pick).  And 12/27 this year.  Nice hustle, defense, glue guy, and doesn't need the ball which is helpful with KAT and Wiggins out there (and Covington who doesn't get enough touches as it is).
 
Okogie needs to improve his 3-ball (he was starting to hit them okay, then ran into a 1-15 slump his last 5 games).  21 years old with a solid 6'4" body.  I liked him last year, haven't seen him this year, but most of his numbers are up a bit.

They drafted 6'6" Culver with the 6th overall pick.  And he's been starting over Okogie much of their losing streak.  Culver also 3-challenged (just 24%).  Kiid was ridiculing RJB the other day, but Culver's shooting splits are just 36% / 24% / 43%.   Kid thought Barrett's splits might be the worst ever, but here's a guy taken 3 spots behind him shooting across-the-board worse than RJB 39.4 / 31.1 / 54.9 in every category.   

Anyway, I think Okogie is a reasonably valuable player.  If he can make open 3's, he'd be a nice player.

Well, Bo, unlike Chip I happen to think we're pretty decent GMs.

The call went out for improbable trades and I heralded the call.

For DSJ all I did was connect  a speculative rumor that Minny was interested and then researched the entire corpus of basketball scouting to find little more that a warm NBA body one bench position closer to the coach than the 15th man.  Its what GMs do Bo.  And for that you dismiss my trade proposal as  too improbable for your taste.

And Utah.  What are they winning this year?  the answer: NADA.  Conley is an expensive way to lose for them.  Hell they could lose with DSJ and save a ton of money but I didn't propose that did I? All I wanted to do as a GM was to move Randle as far into the desert as I possibly could.  Somewhere between Area 51 and a nuclear waste site. I even tried to make it so one sided that Chip would scream that I was giving away - *gasp* - yet another future that we should just be patient for.

And my last nugget, just get our lazy kids out of here and give me somebody else's lazy kids.  IS THAT TOO  MUCH TO ASK?

If this keeps up Chip will go back to reviewing Jazz and calling them names.
Title: At the half
Post by: Kam on December 26, 2019, 08:38:53 PM
8 fg made for Randle  on 8 for 14 shooting
9 fg made for the rest of the team on 9 for 36 shooting

17-50 at the half
but up 46-41 over the Nets
Title: the miller effect
Post by: Kam on December 26, 2019, 09:53:04 PM
Miller has as many wins as Fizdale did in half as many games
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 26, 2019, 10:01:53 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 26, 2019, 10:08:07 AM
Unfortunately, KAT already signed an extension and is having a career year.  Be a great guy to land/build around.
Maybe with MINN struggling try to see what it would take to get Covington.  Strong 2-way player on a cheap contract.

I ran into one site with some not terribly appealing Knick trade ideas.  This was their best (https://hoopshabit.com/2019/12/21/new-york-knicks-5-possible-trade-scenarios/5/):

KNICKS get
AARON GORDON
D.J. AUGUSTIN

MAGIC get
DENNIS SMITH JR.
GORAN DRAGIC
DERRICK JONES JR.

HEAT get
JULIUS RANDLE
WESLEY IWUNDU

I'm not a Gordon fan, but I'd take him over Randle.  Gordon is long and bouncy and switchable.  The author seems to think Randle is a great fit in Spoelstraland.  Though I thought they like to keep the ball moving and play hard-nosed D.

I realize Dragic is always injured, and MIA has compensated, but I imagine they'd want an actual PG on their roster.

You are right. They are wrong. Anyone with eyes can see what Miami is doing and why they're winning. They are fucking 22-8 and they whip the ball around. Their chemistry is off the charts. We would kill to have those guys as Knicks.

Randle makes no sense.
Title: Knicks historic defensive effort
Post by: Kam on December 26, 2019, 10:05:58 PM
Somewhere David Fizdale is smiling, the Knicks held the nets to just 8 2pt fg made.
Setting a record low, (the previous was 11) since the introdiction of the 3pt line in 1979-1980. (the modern era)
Title: Julius Randle
Post by: chipstern on December 26, 2019, 10:15:34 PM
TickTock

Tick

TOCK

Well?

I thought so. 

I mean, it's not like Randle could be getting better and finding a comfort level?

14-26

5-9

Nah. 

Off with his head. 

33-8-2

Hey, knock yourself out. 

MM?

22-8-2

Yup.

Keep those brilliant fucking trade proposals coming.

PS: Actual DEFENSE for 48 minutes. 
Title: There's a Dark Cloud in every silver lining
Post by: Kam on December 26, 2019, 10:16:08 PM
Barrett-Knox-Ntilikina combined for just 12 pts on 4 for 18 shot-making.
Title: Re: There's a Dark Cloud in every silver lining
Post by: chipstern on December 26, 2019, 10:19:58 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 26, 2019, 10:16:08 PM
Barrett-Knox-Ntilikina combined for just 12 pts on 4 for 18 shot-making.

That WOULD be a dark cloud. 

If...

We lost. 

But we didn't. 

Let's see how the team responds to the Wizards on Saturday.  If they have a similar focus. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 26, 2019, 10:57:53 PM
Looking forward to watching this one. Sounds like an old school slug fest - that we won! Ha!
Title: Re: There's a Dark Cloud in every silver lining
Post by: elephant on December 26, 2019, 11:04:06 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 26, 2019, 10:19:58 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 26, 2019, 10:16:08 PM
Barrett-Knox-Ntilikina combined for just 12 pts on 4 for 18 shot-making.

That WOULD be a dark cloud. 

If...

We lost. 

But we didn't. 

Let's see how the team responds to the Wizards on Saturday.  If they have a similar focus.

That said, it would be nice to have a consistent third scorer.

We figured it might be Barrett, but that's not happening this year.
Title: There's a dark cloud up Kam's ass...
Post by: lesterluv on December 27, 2019, 12:12:28 AM
Taj Gibson + B. Portis combined for 0-10.

Kadeem Allen + Iggy Brazdeikis were 0-0-0-0-0-0-0-1-1 in 3.

Who gives a fuck. The Nets starters went 11-49.

Nice game. Well played. Well coached.

**No DJ and extremely limited Knox helped a lot

**** now the Pistons know what to do against a G-League team, yes let's see what if anything we've learned on Sat.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 27, 2019, 12:47:47 AM
They undercounted Frank’s and this the Knicks’ assists.

Both teams shot terribly, but they were down their top three scorers and creators but still a game’s a game. Nice D and decent ball and player movement. I believe we can develop more nuance and purpose over time with reps under this staff.

I’m now firmly not in a hurry to make any moves, though I don’t mind people in the organization with their ears and minds open. For now though, this looks like a basketball team.

DSJ should take a rehab stint with the Wee-Knicks once he’s healthy enough to play.

I’d offer Morris 43 mil over two years guaranteed and a team option for 25 in year three.
Title: Re: There's a dark cloud up Kam's ass...
Post by: carlos123 on December 27, 2019, 02:04:03 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on December 27, 2019, 12:12:28 AM
Taj Gibson + B. Portis combined for 0-10.

Kadeem Allen + Iggy Brazdeikis were 0-0-0-0-0-0-0-1-1 in 3.

Who gives a fuck. The Nets starters went 11-49.

Nice game. Well played. Well coached.

**No DJ and extremely limited Knox helped a lot

**** now the Pistons know what to do against a G-League team, yes let's see what if anything we've learned on Sat.

Hey Les, u ready to join the PP Club?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 27, 2019, 02:34:30 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 27, 2019, 12:47:47 AM
I’d offer Morris 43 mil over two years guaranteed and a team option for 25 in year three.

Ain't be happening. Morris bet on himself with a one year contract.
Been putting up a career year.  Unless he slumps badly or gets injured, Morris is going to be looking for a 4 year deal.  Will take a high payout 3 year deal if the market isn't great.

I expect he'll be seeking something like 4/$80M.
Probably willing to take a 3/$60+M, if no good longer deal materializes.  It's his last big score.  He needs that 3rd year guaranteed, and should be able to get that.  He'll want a 4th year, which takes him deep into his 30's.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 27, 2019, 02:45:58 AM
Kind of an aberration game.
Nets took 50 3's.

Dinwiddie had more FT's than the Knix.
Aside from Randle's outburst, Knix sharpshooters 4-20 on 3's.

Knix have played better with Payton and the new coach.
Mostly soft schedule, but we lost games against CLE and such early in the year under Fizzbottom.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jerrya on December 27, 2019, 10:05:44 AM
Knicks have a habit of acquiring terrible shooters.  BB is not that complicated...look for a guy that can shoot first,  and then look at the other tangibles.  If you can't shoot coaching and effort doesn't matter. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 27, 2019, 10:08:12 AM
Check out JULIUS fucking RANDLE under Miller vs Fiz.....

No longer being held back

They made a big thing last night about Joe Ingles consecutive 25 point games - as Randle gets his second 30-pointer and will get no pub
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 27, 2019, 10:10:26 AM
And fuck Dinwiddie.
Title: Re: There's a Dark Cloud in every silver lining
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 27, 2019, 10:13:35 AM
Quote from: chipstern on December 26, 2019, 10:19:58 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 26, 2019, 10:16:08 PM
Barrett-Knox-Ntilikina combined for just 12 pts on 4 for 18 shot-making.

That WOULD be a dark cloud. 

If...

We lost. 

But we didn't. 

Let's see how the team responds to the Wizards on Saturday.  If they have a similar focus.

It's STILL  a fucking cloud.  Three fourths of our youth movement cant get consistent traction.

Only the rookie gets a pass here.

Let's stop taliking about this "base" until the consistency arrives.

(and I know, Chip - you favor the vets, so dont take this personally)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 27, 2019, 11:54:22 AM
The kids are playing defense. The kids are moving themselves and the ball. If that doesn’t leave them enough in the tank to score much, so be it for now. Knox and Frank are getting noticeably good looks that they aren’t knocking down. They need to find their rhythm in Miller’s offense.

Hopefully they all light it up against Washington   
Title: Re: There's a Dark Cloud in every silver lining
Post by: chipstern on December 27, 2019, 12:05:30 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 27, 2019, 10:13:35 AM
Quote from: chipstern on December 26, 2019, 10:19:58 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 26, 2019, 10:16:08 PM
Barrett-Knox-Ntilikina combined for just 12 pts on 4 for 18 shot-making.

That WOULD be a dark cloud. 

If...

We lost. 

But we didn't. 

Let's see how the team responds to the Wizards on Saturday.  If they have a similar focus.

It's STILL  a fucking cloud.  Three fourths of our youth movement cant get consistent traction.

Only the rookie gets a pass here.

Let's stop taliking about this "base" until the consistency arrives.

(and I know, Chip - you favor the vets, so dont take this personally)

I favor the vets?

News to me. 

Was flabbergasted at all the minutes Fiz lavished on Ellington when Dotson was ready willing and able. 

And you are regularly amused by the traction I would proffer to Trier. 

I like our puppies, and am taken aback by how quickly many of the Trader Vics on this forum would ship them out of town for a bag of magic beans. 

It is often easy to forget how YOUNG our SEVEN puppies are. 

And GREEN. 

RJ [19]
Ziggy [20]
Knox [20]
Robinson [21]
Ntilikina [21]
DJ [22]
Trier [23]

And how young many of our vets are

Portis [24]
Randle [25]
Payton [25]
Dotson [25]
Allen [26]

That's TWELVE players under 26. 

As for our vets

Bullock [28]
Morris [30]
Ellington [32]
Gibson [34]

Of the "vets" I'm pulling for, mainly Morris. 

Inclined to pull for Bullock, because we need someone coming off the pine, besides Dotson, who can stroke AND defend. 

Baby Steps

RJ last night?

2-10.  Troubling. 

4 defensive rebounds, 3 offensive rebounds, 2 assists, 1 steal and a very adult give up the body offensive foul he drew, for a +20.   He PLAYED DEFENSE.  Knox and Frank have been too.  In lieu of hitting shots, DEFENSE WINS GAMES IN THIS MAN'S LEAGUE. 

Payton, 13-7-4-1 and only 1 turnover in 32 minutes for a +25.  And didn't allow Dinwiddie to run wild.  DEFENSE. 

You may be right about Randle finding his comfort level under Coach Miller.  Fizz presumed him to be a point forward, and while a willing and able passer, was a turnover festival trying to shoehorn his game into being a facilitator.  Was gratifying to see him working and dominating in the midrange, and while it troubles me to see him hoisting so many threes, he was 5-9 last night, so, I mean, yeah sure. 

Is it worth mentioning to the assembled Trader Vics, that Julius just turned 25 at the end of November.  He is also a puppy, and just finding his rhythm as the #1/#2 option along with Morris. 

Who will emerge as the #3 option.  God knows, we could use some consistent shooting. 

But for one night, it was fun to see our Knucks grinding on defense, and holding the playoff bound 16-13 (now 16-14) Nyets to a collective 21-78. 

Let's see if Coach Miller, Julius, Marcus and Elfrid can do it two games in a row. 

PS: Agree with the idea of letting Dennis tune up in Westchester.  Not sure how he would view that.  Not a demotion, but a search for RHYTHM. 
Title: Re: There's a dark cloud up Kam's ass...
Post by: Kam on December 27, 2019, 01:07:21 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on December 27, 2019, 12:12:28 AM


Not since i went Vegan.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 27, 2019, 01:09:41 PM
I’d take Morris for 3 years 60 million with a team option for year 4.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 27, 2019, 01:15:47 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 27, 2019, 01:09:41 PM
I’d take Morris for 3 years 60 million with a team option for year 4.

4yrs/85mil with the first 3 yrs and $63mil fully guaranteed.  Final year is a team option.
He will be as old as Taj is now and Taj just got his self paid again.  Taj still useful as mentor.
As Morris will be.

I don't know who we are bidding against for Morris.  Is there a team that will offer more guaranteed money than 63?
Title: Re: There's a dark cloud up Kam's ass...
Post by: Kam on December 27, 2019, 01:22:03 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on December 27, 2019, 12:12:28 AM

Who gives a fuck.

Because Barrett, Knox, and Ntilikina, or BKN if you prefer, are our last three lottery selections and putative youth movement.  It would be nice to see more fruit bearing games.  OF course they're young/inexperienced but look around at most of the NBA.  Our young guys need to show and prove on a consistent basis or they'll be someone else's young veteran on their next deal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 27, 2019, 02:49:17 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 27, 2019, 01:15:47 PM
4yrs/85mil with the first 3 yrs and $63mil fully guaranteed.  Final year is a team option.

I don't know who we are bidding against for Morris.  Is there a team that will offer more guaranteed money than 63?

A$22M team option when he's 34 isn't that appealing, but yeah that could happen.  There are plenty of team's that could use Morris.  UTA, DEN, POR.  Not sure if any of those will have free FA money.  POR has a huge payroll, but Whiteside is coming off the books.  But also teams like DET, MIN etc could use Morris' toughness and outside shooting.  I don't know who the FA's are next Summer, but Morris should have suitors.  A sign and trade could also open up more teams.
Title: The Cupboard Is BARE
Post by: chipstern on December 27, 2019, 03:46:40 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 27, 2019, 02:49:17 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 27, 2019, 01:15:47 PM
4yrs/85mil with the first 3 yrs and $63mil fully guaranteed.  Final year is a team option.

I don't know who we are bidding against for Morris.  Is there a team that will offer more guaranteed money than 63?

A$22M team option when he's 34 isn't that appealing, but yeah that could happen.  There are plenty of team's that could use Morris.  UTA, DEN, POR.  Not sure if any of those will have free FA money.  POR has a huge payroll, but Whiteside is coming off the books.  But also teams like DET, MIN etc could use Morris' toughness and outside shooting.  I don't know who the FA's are next Summer, but Morris should have suitors.  A sign and trade could also open up more teams.

Some of these listed are out of date, with players who have since re-upped.

But, slim pickings in any event. 

Notable unrestricted 2020 free agents:

Kyle Lowry
DeMarcus Cousins
Montrezl Harrell
Paul Millsap
Hassan Whiteside
Marc Gasol
Serge Ibaka
Danilo Gallinari
Fred VanVleet
Eric Gordon
Goran Dragic
Tristan Thompson

Notable restricted 2020 free agents:

Jaylen Brown
Pascal Siakam
Brandon Ingram
Bogdan Bogdanovic
Buddy Hield
Domantas Sabonis
Cedi Osman
Caris LeVert

Notable players who can opt out of their deals to become free agents:


Anthony Davis
Gordon Hayward
DeMar DeRozan
Andre Drummond
Mike Conley
Otto Porter Jr.
Tim Hardaway Jr.
Title: Dennis Is Snake Bit
Post by: chipstern on December 27, 2019, 03:49:39 PM
Mike Vorkunov: Dennis Smith Jr. (strained left oblique) and Reggie Bullock are out for tomorrow’s Knicks-Wizards game, team announces. Mitchell Robinson and Wayne Ellington are questionable. Marcus Morris is off the injury report. – via Twitter MikeVorkunov

The oblique injury Smith is dealing with apparently the same injury which kept Aaron Judge out for two + plus months. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 27, 2019, 04:01:30 PM
Van Vleet is the interesting guy in the fa group.  Other than that I like our guys, the draft and trades for 20-21
Title: Re: Dennis Is Snake Bit
Post by: Kam on December 27, 2019, 04:54:09 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 27, 2019, 03:49:39 PM

The oblique injury Smith is dealing with apparently the same injury which kept Aaron Judge out for two + plus months.

That's a shame.  Now we need another right-handed batter.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on December 27, 2019, 06:45:28 PM
Celt's budding monsters, the JnJ boys, put up a set of 30s (first time I think) in matinee win over Cavs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 27, 2019, 07:45:33 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 27, 2019, 04:01:30 PM
Van Vleet is the interesting guy in the fa group.  Other than that I like our guys, the draft and trades for 20-21

Yes, Van Vleet is very interesting. 

But really, are the Raptors going to let him walk?

I think NOT. 

Free agency is kind of a wank.  The home team has all the advantages. 

Everything else is a charade, like Anthony Davis' agent suggesting he might consider the Knicks in the summer of 2020. 

Uh huh. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 27, 2019, 07:53:10 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on December 27, 2019, 06:45:28 PM
Celt's budding monsters, the JnJ boys, put up a set of 30s (first time I think) in matinee win over Cavs.

Love as well

Celts didn't cover
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 27, 2019, 07:55:25 PM
Fultz filling it vs Sixers

Excellent 21 year old talent
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on December 27, 2019, 08:18:13 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 27, 2019, 07:53:10 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on December 27, 2019, 06:45:28 PM
Celt's budding monsters, the JnJ boys, put up a set of 30s (first time I think) in matinee win over Cavs.

Love as well

Celts didn't cover

Cover?

irrelvant.

The Celts could have won by 25+.

I think 13 guys had double-digit minutes.

With a few more minutes JnJ could have gone for 40-40

those fellas are going to be fun to watch for the next decade.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on December 27, 2019, 10:00:53 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on December 25, 2019, 02:39:18 PM
I've seen Philly play a few times this year and generally have been underwhelmed,

That team has the attention span of a gnat.

Title: Re: There's a Dark Cloud in every silver lining
Post by: FWK00 on December 28, 2019, 12:59:24 AM
Quote from: chipstern on December 27, 2019, 12:05:30 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 27, 2019, 10:13:35 AM
Quote from: chipstern on December 26, 2019, 10:19:58 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 26, 2019, 10:16:08 PM
Barrett-Knox-Ntilikina combined for just 12 pts on 4 for 18 shot-making.

That WOULD be a dark cloud. 

If...

We lost. 

But we didn't. 

Let's see how the team responds to the Wizards on Saturday.  If they have a similar focus.

It's STILL  a fucking cloud.  Three fourths of our youth movement cant get consistent traction.

Only the rookie gets a pass here.

Let's stop taliking about this "base" until the consistency arrives.

(and I know, Chip - you favor the vets, so dont take this personally)

I favor the vets?

News to me. 

Was flabbergasted at all the minutes Fiz lavished on Ellington when Dotson was ready willing and able. 

And you are regularly amused by the traction I would proffer to Trier. 

I like our puppies, and am taken aback by how quickly many of the Trader Vics on this forum would ship them out of town for a bag of magic beans. 

It is often easy to forget how YOUNG our SEVEN puppies are. 

And GREEN. 

RJ [19]
Ziggy [20]
Knox [20]
Robinson [21]
Ntilikina [21]
DJ [22]
Trier [23]

And how young many of our vets are

Portis [24]
Randle [25]
Payton [25]
Dotson [25]
Allen [26]

That's TWELVE players under 26. 

As for our vets

Bullock [28]
Morris [30]
Ellington [32]
Gibson [34]

Of the "vets" I'm pulling for, mainly Morris. 

Inclined to pull for Bullock, because we need someone coming off the pine, besides Dotson, who can stroke AND defend. 

Baby Steps

RJ last night?

2-10.  Troubling. 

4 defensive rebounds, 3 offensive rebounds, 2 assists, 1 steal and a very adult give up the body offensive foul he drew, for a +20.   He PLAYED DEFENSE.  Knox and Frank have been too.  In lieu of hitting shots, DEFENSE WINS GAMES IN THIS MAN'S LEAGUE. 

Payton, 13-7-4-1 and only 1 turnover in 32 minutes for a +25.  And didn't allow Dinwiddie to run wild.  DEFENSE. 

You may be right about Randle finding his comfort level under Coach Miller.  Fizz presumed him to be a point forward, and while a willing and able passer, was a turnover festival trying to shoehorn his game into being a facilitator.  Was gratifying to see him working and dominating in the midrange, and while it troubles me to see him hoisting so many threes, he was 5-9 last night, so, I mean, yeah sure. 

Is it worth mentioning to the assembled Trader Vics, that Julius just turned 25 at the end of November.  He is also a puppy, and just finding his rhythm as the #1/#2 option along with Morris. 

Who will emerge as the #3 option.  God knows, we could use some consistent shooting. 

But for one night, it was fun to see our Knucks grinding on defense, and holding the playoff bound 16-13 (now 16-14) Nyets to a collective 21-78. 

Let's see if Coach Miller, Julius, Marcus and Elfrid can do it two games in a row. 

PS: Agree with the idea of letting Dennis tune up in Westchester.  Not sure how he would view that.  Not a demotion, but a search for RHYTHM.

Chip, I think the goal posts in the NBA have moved yet again. Free agency is no longer "free".  The reality is that the only truly available talent are not premiere talents who either opt for the golden handcuffs of their existing team or who are independently wealthy enough to write their own tickets as to destination.  Cap space has become an academic exercise in this regard though cap space.

The draft which was established during the days of no luxury taxes to prevent the Knicks from out-bidding the rest of the league for young talent has never been recalled. Its dysfunctional, unintended consequences continue to poison the talent pool to this day. It can't be eliminated because its become more entertainment than sensible business practice.

So the remaining avenue to improve a team roster is once again through trades.  And even trading is constrained by a Byzantine algebra that values money more than talent exchange.

So, yes, you are stuck with those of us who have earned membership in the Royal Order of Trader Vics.

One of the tenets of venture capitalists when funding a startup is to emphasize failing fast.  It prevents burning good money after bad.

I think its worth applying the same principle to rebuilds.

Your concern is that the Knicks, should they trade off some youth, will have abandoned the rebuild - such as it is.  I don't think so.

We already know the chemistry of this roster has failed fast so trading is an imperative.

We also have a number of candidate players who, for whatever reason, are expendable.  We can choose to pretend that we can rebuild in perpetuity until Lady Luck hands us a generational talent or we can just start improving the roster one trade at a time.

You need to explain to me why standing still makes any sense at all.

DSJ wants out.  You want to talk him out of that?  I hope not.
Title: Shallow PP Club member
Post by: carlos123 on December 28, 2019, 01:45:59 AM
FWK, you’re too f’in profound for me.

I guess I’m just shallow 😳
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 28, 2019, 10:14:18 AM
We already know the chemistry of this roster has failed fast so trading is an imperative.


We know nothing of the sort

Knicks play like a team - I credit Fiz and management at least for this.

Getting consistent BUCKETS and understanding rotations was the problem.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 28, 2019, 10:17:11 AM
DSJ wants out.  You want to talk him out of that?  I hope not.


Question is how big an asset do you still view Smith as.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 28, 2019, 10:29:49 AM
I think a good approach would be to take the 4 best teams in each conference and see how they built theirs

Lakers, Clippers, Nuggets and Rockets (Warriors if you like)

Bucks, Sixers, Raptors and Celtics (Heat if you like)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 28, 2019, 11:06:44 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 28, 2019, 10:29:49 AM
I think a good approach would be to take the 4 best teams in each conference and see how they built theirs

Lakers, Clippers, Nuggets and Rockets (Warriors if you like)

Bucks, Sixers, Raptors and Celtics (Heat if you like)

The HEAT are very much the template I envy. 

But then again, we let Riley walk, and he has been with Miami for what, 25 years, and Spolestra has been the coach for more than a decade.  They have a culture, they have a consistency.  They have attracted free agents, they have nurtured youth, they have traded for players who fit their culture. 
Title: NO SALE
Post by: chipstern on December 28, 2019, 11:11:14 AM
We already know the chemistry of this roster has failed fast so trading is an imperative.

You paint well. 

Extremely well, truth be told. 

But in this case, with way to broad a fucking brush. 

I look at Julius Randle in November, and Julius Randle in December, and I see growth. 

I look at Frank and Kevin and see progress. 

You see us cutting our losses. 

In other words, ANOTHER REBOOT. 

No

Thank

You

We've been having fire sales for twenty years when fans, the press, management lost patience, lost heart. 

Not standing still.  No.  NOT HAVING A HISSY FIT AND JUST WILY NILLY TURNING OVER THE ROSTER. 

Been There.  Done That. 

Sorry.

But NO SALE. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on December 28, 2019, 11:58:29 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 28, 2019, 10:14:18 AM
We already know the chemistry of this roster has failed fast so trading is an imperative.


We know nothing of the sort

Knicks play like a team - I credit Fiz and management at least for this.

Getting consistent BUCKETS and understanding rotations was the problem.

There is camaraderie.  Yes.  And many of the players are starting to find a groove of sorts.  But its a roster that has no future as a roster.  Not if the Knicks plan on winning.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on December 28, 2019, 12:01:18 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 28, 2019, 10:17:11 AM
DSJ wants out.  You want to talk him out of that?  I hope not.


Question is how big an asset do you still view Smith as.

As a player, DSJ fits in with any team that's a rehabilitation center or simply needs a PG placeholder until next season.

DSJ's broader value is not as a player but as a contract that makes a larger deal work.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on December 28, 2019, 12:03:28 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 28, 2019, 10:29:49 AM
I think a good approach would be to take the 4 best teams in each conference and see how they built theirs

Lakers, Clippers, Nuggets and Rockets (Warriors if you like)

Bucks, Sixers, Raptors and Celtics (Heat if you like)

Maybe we can move the Knicks to a nicer climate that's tax-free.

Then all we need is a generational player or two to take Dolan's money.

I like it.
Title: Re: NO SALE
Post by: FWK00 on December 28, 2019, 12:23:49 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 28, 2019, 11:11:14 AM
We already know the chemistry of this roster has failed fast so trading is an imperative.

You paint well. 

Extremely well, truth be told. 

But in this case, with way to broad a fucking brush. 

I look at Julius Randle in November, and Julius Randle in December, and I see growth. 

I look at Frank and Kevin and see progress. 

You see us cutting our losses. 

In other words, ANOTHER REBOOT. 

No

Thank

You

We've been having fire sales for twenty years when fans, the press, management lost patience, lost heart. 

Not standing still.  No.  NOT HAVING A HISSY FIT AND JUST WILY NILLY TURNING OVER THE ROSTER. 

Been There.  Done That. 

Sorry.

But NO SALE.

Chip,

Here's the reality.

Free agency is DOA for the coming two summers unless the Knicks dramatically reverse their fortunes.  The Knicks would be looking to outbid winning teams for the paltry two or three players worth signing.  The chances of winning the free agents is slim and none.

So trading for talent is a priority AND we have the kinds of assets teams desire.

Our summer signings were expensive internships.  If a player or two stick from that cohort, its a win.  IMO, Gibson, Morris, and Bullock (until he proves otherwise) stick.

The fact that Randle and Portis are playing better is great but they were never expected to be keepers.  Ellington is expendable and Payton is a keeper unless we trade into a know-quality PG in which case he could be flipped for a greater need.

Of the kiddie corp, RJ, Mitch, Frankie, Dotson, and Iggy stick.  Knox and Trier precisely because of their desrability should be on the trade bubble.

The mid-season goal has to be that either Portis becomes a consistent, heavy-weight C to complement Mitch or we need to find one in trade.

A decision has to be made to stick with Payton/Frankie as a two headed PG going forward OR trade in a Westbrook, Conley, CP3.

As is obvious, we should be looking for shooters and specifically either a SF or PF upgrade.

This year has to be a competitive one.  Being perennial losers and laughingstocks isn't rebuilding.

So, to your concern.  No, we aren't giving up on the rebuild, we would be hardening the roster every available opportunity.

NO WILLY_NILLY.

NO FIRE SALE.
Title: Is Westbrook a potential Spree?
Post by: zupzup2 on December 28, 2019, 01:35:59 PM
What do you all think? Especially if no re-re-build. I tend to think he would actually fit well in NYC. A chance to resurrect himself. a-la, Spree.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 28, 2019, 05:37:01 PM
Spree was a choker ...

Since Chip loves Trader Vic's, here's how we continue the glorious Knick tradition of getting eminent PG's at the end of their careers.

Knicks trade
Morris - Portis - Ellington

Knicks get
Chris Paul and a 1st rounder (+ one of OKC guys making 1.5M)

I'd rather give them Randle, but Randle and Adams would be a definite clog.  Morris gives them a starting caliber SF and versatility.  He can also be insurance in case Gallo leaves -- they'd need to re-sign one of them. 

OKC gets out of Paul's huge contract and opens space for Shai Guy to play PG.  Shai - Morris - Gallo - Adams is a pretty nice quartet.  Ferguson - Shroder - Portis as bench guys.

Knix would have:
CP3 - RJB - Knox - Randle - Mitch
ELf/Franc - Dot - Taj
CP3 with Randle in the Blake Griffin role and Mitch as the DeAndre C.  It would help us evaluate our yute playing with a quality PG.
Maybe Paul could mentor Jr. Smith.

Knix would have a rudder.
I'm sort of ambivalent about it.

I'd rather keep Morris, give them Randle and let them keep their pick.  CP3 - RJB - Knox - Morris - Mitch looks like a pretty good balance of scoring and D.  But then you need to plan on re-signing Morris.  Looks like a fairly competitive team.  Say 6th in the East, assuming KI & KD return reasonably healthy next year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 28, 2019, 05:51:20 PM
Of course always a yes to Chris Paul if he is on board with it
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 28, 2019, 05:52:09 PM
But no.  Smith has to be gone first
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on December 28, 2019, 07:25:54 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 28, 2019, 05:37:01 PM
Spree was a choker ...

Since Chip loves Trader Vic's, here's how we continue the glorious Knick tradition of getting eminent PG's at the end of their careers.

Knicks trade
Morris - Portis - Ellington

Knicks get
Chris Paul and a 1st rounder (+ one of OKC guys making 1.5M)

I'd rather give them Randle, but Randle and Adams would be a definite clog.  Morris gives them a starting caliber SF and versatility.  He can also be insurance in case Gallo leaves -- they'd need to re-sign one of them. 

OKC gets out of Paul's huge contract and opens space for Shai Guy to play PG.  Shai - Morris - Gallo - Adams is a pretty nice quartet.  Ferguson - Shroder - Portis as bench guys.

Knix would have:
CP3 - RJB - Knox - Randle - Mitch
ELf/Franc - Dot - Taj
CP3 with Randle in the Blake Griffin role and Mitch as the DeAndre C.  It would help us evaluate our yute playing with a quality PG.
Maybe Paul could mentor Jr. Smith.

Knix would have a rudder.
I'm sort of ambivalent about it.

I'd rather keep Morris, give them Randle and let them keep their pick.  CP3 - RJB - Knox - Morris - Mitch looks like a pretty good balance of scoring and D.  But then you need to plan on re-signing Morris.  Looks like a fairly competitive team.  Say 6th in the East, assuming KI & KD return reasonably healthy next year.

OKC is complicated.  For one thing they are playing decent ball.

However and, as usual, they'll be looking to save money.  I think Adams is on the block as is CP3 though he's in denial I think.

The only problem with the Morris for Randle substitution is that he wants to stay near family.  Philly was mentioned as a preferred landing spot should it come to that.

If the Knicks do reach for a PG my druther would be Conley - least risk IMO.  And Rubio.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 28, 2019, 11:18:18 PM
Knicks management was right
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 28, 2019, 11:20:53 PM
Tatum a horror today

But good player
Title: Sweet Mother Of GOD
Post by: chipstern on December 28, 2019, 11:43:49 PM
Nice stat line.

30-16-6.

Third straight 30+plus game. 

Cool, now we can trade our 25-year old bell cow while his value is high, and don't forget to throw in 24 year old Portis and 20 year old Knox. 

And maybe we can get back a 34 year old PG making $38,506,482  in 2019/2020, $41,358,814 in 2020/21 and    
$44,211,146 in 2021/2022. 

Or a 32 year old PG making $32,511,623 in 2019-2020 and $34,502,130 2020/21.   

To play with WHOM, exactly? 

(https://www.nyfa.edu/student-resources/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/original.gif)

Clearly I am not sophisticated enough to appreciate the subtle turns of mind which concocted these stratagems. 

PS: In what quadrant of the known MOTHERFUCKING UNIVERSE, is Houston looking to trade Russell Westbrook.  Don't bogart that joint, my friends. 

(https://i.gifer.com/EOXl.gif)

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 29, 2019, 01:01:30 AM
If there are picks for Smith or Ellington, sure. Doubtful, but sure.

Otherwise we are playing well and showing talent. Steady as we go.
Title: Luck be a lady ...
Post by: carlos123 on December 29, 2019, 01:42:37 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 28, 2019, 11:18:18 PM
Knicks management was right

Just plain lucky that a great coach fell in their laps when keeping their chosen one became untenable.

Warming up to Dolan for forcing them to dispose of Phony Phizz. If he can now convince Ujiri to take over and gets rid of those clowns I’d be delighted with ownership for a change. Come on Jimmy, throw a 100 mil at Masai. And while you’re at it, hire Oak to keep you under control, you know, as VP for executive management or something...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 29, 2019, 02:43:11 AM
Quote
Masai Ujiri's contract with the Raptors is believed to expire in the 2020-21 season and he is expected to move on only then.

One rumory site had the Knix giving 2 1st rounders to get Ujiri.  Which means he'd cost at least one.  Which kind of thwarts rebuilding.  So if you want Ujiri I'd counsel patience.

So Randle is able to take advantage of an undrafted guy no one's ever heard of playing in his 2nd game this year and only 25th of his career.  Exciting times Knick fans.  Exciting times.

Wiz tossed out a D-leaguered team. 
No Beal, no Hachimura, - Bertans, -Thos Bryant - Mo VVagner.
Gad, Wiz started 2 guys who they just signed this week.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 29, 2019, 02:57:53 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 28, 2019, 05:52:09 PM
But no.  Smith has to be gone first
I was thinking you move Franc since CP3 plays pretty solid D still, and Franc's value is probably higher than Jr. Smith.  You've got 2 more years of CP3 after this, so that's time to see if Smith can develop a game under a very good mentor.  But the 2nd or 3rd string PG isn't that important.

Assuming Knix are wary of or unable to re-sign Morris, trading for CP3 makes sense.  Gives the Knix a solid competitor, respected vet voice, organized PG play, a tone and style.  With CP3, Randle, Mitch, RJB, the Knix would just be a starting SF away from being credible.

Would put the Knix squarely in the playoffs next year, right about INDy and BKY level.  Add a Top 10 pick.  Maybe make a small trade or two to thin out our not-ready-for-prime-time G's.  Try to pick up a shooter.  It's a direction.  Something to build off of.
Paul would help the development of Mitch, RJB and Knox. 
Title: The Dark Side Of The Farce
Post by: chipstern on December 29, 2019, 09:43:44 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 29, 2019, 02:43:11 AM

So Randle is able to take advantage of an undrafted guy no one's ever heard of playing in his 2nd game this year and only 25th of his career.  Exciting times Knick fans.  Exciting times.

Wiz tossed out a D-leaguered team. 
No Beal, no Hachimura, - Bertans, -Thos Bryant - Mo VVagner.
Gad, Wiz started 2 guys who they just signed this week.

Last I checked, in the NBA, a win is a win. 

Someone is wounded you are obliged to take advantage. 

I seem to recall JR playing pretty well in rare wins against KP and Draymond. 

But hey, I reckon I'm just a pussy with an inexplicable rooting interest in my team and the struggles of its players. 

Go figure.   

(https://media2.giphy.com/media/8SxGru3XzElqg/giphy.gif)

Still, if I linger long enough with BoD, there is hope for me yet, that I might embrace the Dark Side Of The Farce. 
Title: Upwards & Downwards
Post by: chipstern on December 29, 2019, 09:55:34 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 29, 2019, 01:01:30 AM
If there are picks for Smith or Ellington, sure. Doubtful, but sure.

Otherwise we are playing well and showing talent. Steady as we go.

Plenty of bumps in the road as we encounter more formidable adversaries. 

There were a handful of games early on under Fizz where we competed hard and purposefully against winning teams, and others where we got nuked. 

Collectively and individually, we have, and will continue to be up and down. 

Trades?  If there are moves that make sense, sure, bring 'em on. 

But the sense that you just swap out one set of bodies for another? 

There are going to be moves made before February 15. 

Meanwhile, for better and for worse, many of my fellow "fans" seem immune to the notion of camaraderie and what role sharing negative, MORE NEGATIVE, and positive experiences mean to a "TEAM".   

It's not a matter of trusting the process. 

It's a matter of respecting the process. 

Do we really TRUST Perry & Mills?

[Crickets]

Do we really TRUST Coach Miller?

[Stay Tuned]

Do we respect the players on this roster?

[Judging by the majority, not a whit]

I seem to recall Randle playing pretty well against a Nyets team, that while they have their share of walking wounded, still had a reasonable assortment of competent bigs to match up against Randle. 

But I reckon beating a team with a winning record on their home floor doesn't count. 

Knock yourselves out. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 29, 2019, 10:49:52 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 29, 2019, 01:01:30 AM
If there are picks for Smith or Ellington, sure. Doubtful, but sure.

Otherwise we are playing well and showing talent. Steady as we go.

If you want to win as many as possible this year Ellington is plenty useful.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 29, 2019, 11:00:20 AM
I’ll grant that Ellington is a less of an anchor than Smith, though not by much and only because he understands how to play D. He’s the second least effective player on the team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 29, 2019, 11:03:27 AM
Good vet.  Excellent work ethic for young players to emulate.  Keep til deadline then gauge his value.  Obvious filler guy if his salary is needed in a deal.  Getting a second rounder for Wayne (likely won't anyway) not that important.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 29, 2019, 12:43:37 PM
Knix need shooters.
Ellington is a decent vet, but a journeyman.  Useful guy to have around, but also could be used to sweeten a deal.  I doubt we could get a 2nd rounder for him, though 2nd rounders for playoff teams, those below the 45 pick are considered worth little.

Knix really need a starting caliber PG.
Every coach will fail without one.
Maybe Elf can cover.
INDy got away with Collison and ORL with DJ Auggie.
And those are backup PG's like Elf who toughened up a bit and took advantage of starting ops.

I wonder how this season would have looked with Rubio on the team. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 29, 2019, 01:11:26 PM
Zach Randolph officially retires, ending 17-year career: ‘I gave this game my all’ (https://sports.yahoo.com/zach-randolph-zbo-retires-17-seasons-portland-trail-blazers-memphis-grizzlies-232704572.html)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on December 29, 2019, 01:16:47 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 29, 2019, 12:43:37 PM

-snip-

I wonder how this season would have looked with Rubio on the team.

Fizdale would have tried to turn him into a Point Forward.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 29, 2019, 01:48:39 PM
Smith and Ellington to the Kings for Dedmon. His 3rd year is only guaranteed for about 100k. He’s only getting 7 mil more than Smith next year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 29, 2019, 02:07:52 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 29, 2019, 12:43:37 PM
Knix need shooters.
Ellington is a decent vet, but a journeyman.  Useful guy to have around, but also could be used to sweeten a deal.  I doubt we could get a 2nd rounder for him, though 2nd rounders for playoff teams, those below the 45 pick are considered worth little.

Knix really need a starting caliber PG.
Every coach will fail without one.
Maybe Elf can cover.
INDy got away with Collison and ORL with DJ Auggie.
And those are backup PG's like Elf who toughened up a bit and took advantage of starting ops.

I wonder how this season would have looked with Rubio on the team.

Not sure why you would even ask
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 29, 2019, 02:08:49 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 29, 2019, 01:48:39 PM
Smith and Ellington to the Kings for Dedmon. His 3rd year is only guaranteed for about 100k. He’s only getting 7 mil more than Smith next year.

We don't play with that type center
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 29, 2019, 03:32:45 PM
We don’t have that type of center.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 29, 2019, 04:52:06 PM
And don't want one...

Vernon Carey is what we are looking for
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 29, 2019, 05:09:56 PM
When we had KZ, we had a focus and a plan forward.

Now we just have a roster full of bodies.
Mismatched and no clear path forward.

I'd decide on Randle or Morris.
I'd decide on Franc or Jr. Smith  Dot or Trier.
I'd add a 3-point shooter.
Try to find 2-way players.
And get a starting PG so we can function  and evaluate and develop our yute properly.

We need a direction, not just patchwork GMing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on December 29, 2019, 06:03:52 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 29, 2019, 04:52:06 PM
And don't want one...

Vernon Carey is what we are looking for

Trade for Dedmon is actually a good one.  Gibson is playing well but is nothing special.  If Dedmon could add value there then its a trade worth making.  I think the Knicks do need a center to complement MR - more of an enforcer like GS and Boston employ.  Someone to just get in there and not play nice.

Vernon Carey?  Sure.  Keep cherry=picking the best college players that we may or may never have an opportunity to draft.  Because yes, we need them all but only the ones that are a sure thing after the draft.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 29, 2019, 09:42:56 PM
25-11-8 for the ageless CP3

A master at deferring til the game is in the balance. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 29, 2019, 09:45:04 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 29, 2019, 05:09:56 PM
When we had KZ, we had a focus and a plan forward.

Now we just have a roster full of bodies.
Mismatched and no clear path forward.



Nah, man.

You all wanted the short contracts.  Beauty being we could decide who to try to keep after judging their play and character
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 29, 2019, 09:46:48 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on December 29, 2019, 06:03:52 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 29, 2019, 04:52:06 PM
And don't want one...

Vernon Carey is what we are looking for



Vernon Carey?  Sure.  Keep cherry=picking the best college players that we may or may never have an opportunity to draft.  Because yes, we need them all but only the ones that are a sure thing after the draft.

Uh... what?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 29, 2019, 09:53:07 PM
We have no plan whatsover. Which sucks. Of course, it's better than a bad plan — of which we've had a few.

Bo, I didn't realize that I Am Peace Star (our artist formerly known as Starbury) had entered yet another new & wonderful phase of his career in China:

https://twitter.com/StarburyMarbury/status/1193910969702875136

Superb!
Title: Knicks best 5 man unit by NET rating
Post by: Kam on December 29, 2019, 11:31:18 PM
1. M. Morris Sr., .E. Payton, .J. Randle, .B. Portis, .R. Barrett  ---->35 net  in 37 minutes  135off/100def rating

2. B. Portis, .D. Smith Jr., .D. Dotson, .K. Knox II, .M. Robinson -->3.5 net in 39 minutes  98.9off/95.3def

3. M. Morris Sr., .E. Payton, .J. Randle, .M. Robinson, .R. Barrett -> -1.4 net in 102 minutes 100off/101.4def
(this is our 2nd most used linueup by minutes played together)


Which lineup has played more than 102 minutes this year? 
Only this one:

T. Gibson, .M. Morris Sr., .J. Randle, .F. Ntilikina, .R. Barrett  - -6.6 net in 228 minutes played  and a 104.6off/111.2 defensive rating.  This explains why we routinely give up 111+ ppg.

Now if you substitute Elf for Frank as Miller just did you get:
T. Gibson, .M. Morris Sr., .E. Payton, .J. Randle, .R. Barrett - -16 net in 43 minutes

The reason being is this unit cannot score at all (83.7off) .  But it is very good defensively (100def).
So Elf in for Frank and you're 11 pts better defensively with the starters.  But scoring less thus far.

Minimum cut-off 24 minutes played

https://stats.nba.com/lineups/advanced/?Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612752&sort=MIN&dir=1&CF=MIN*GE*24 (https://stats.nba.com/lineups/advanced/?Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612752&sort=MIN&dir=1&CF=MIN*GE*24)

The interesting player is Portis appearing in our only 2 positive lineups. 
The caveat being these two are our 6th and 7th most used lineups respectively.

Perhaps starting Bobby for a few games is worth a looksee. BUT be careful who you start with him.  He is also part of our WORST unit

This group is our 4th most used lineup and it sucks;
M. Morris Sr., .J. Randle, .B. Portis, .F. Ntilikina, .R. Barrett in 59 minutes is -32.1 net  81.6off/113.7def

Portis and Payton or DSJ are positive lineups.  Portis and Frank doesn't work together. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 30, 2019, 12:59:36 AM
We went with big strong guys who can move their feet and what do you know, with sane coaching, they can play good team defense even when combined with our lanky pups.

Don’t think we need to add a guard or a wing, at least not until we see what we have in Bullock.

We definitely don’t need to add a PF since that is the heart and meat of this team.

We need another rim protector. It would be a bonus if that guy had a means to score.

We are not winning a chip this year and are unlikely to reach the playoffs so win totals are mostly irrelevant except as they hurt our draft position. Where they are relevant is league wide respect and attractiveness to free agents.

If we play .500 ball or better the rest of the way and exceed my 32 win prediction by a few games, that might be the ideal outcome heading into next summer. I don’t think this is an outcome that’s beyond our reach.

It means under Miller we’re a playoff trajectory team that has a ton of flexibility and is adding a lotto pick.

Elfrid, Marcus, and Julius play just fine together and the biggest problem with them is keeping Marcus Morris past this year.

We are building. It’s not the same as being fully built. After so many years of crumbs it’s no surprise people won’t recognize half a loaf. Half a loaf is what we have and that’s a good thing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 30, 2019, 03:51:57 AM
http://nypost.com/2019/12/29/frank-ntilikina-pulling-for-dennis-smith-jr-in-knicks-irony/ (http://nypost.com/2019/12/29/frank-ntilikina-pulling-for-dennis-smith-jr-in-knicks-irony/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 30, 2019, 06:22:31 AM
Blazers are going to come in pissed.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 30, 2019, 10:02:29 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 30, 2019, 12:59:36 AM
We went with big strong guys who can move their feet and what do you know, with sane coaching, they can play good team defense even when combined with our lanky pups.

Don’t think we need to add a guard or a wing, at least not until we see what we have in Bullock.

We definitely don’t need to add a PF since that is the heart and meat of this team.

We need another rim protector. It would be a bonus if that guy had a means to score.

We are not winning a chip this year and are unlikely to reach the playoffs so win totals are mostly irrelevant except as they hurt our draft position. Where they are relevant is league wide respect and attractiveness to free agents.

If we play .500 ball or better the rest of the way and exceed my 32 win prediction by a few games, that might be the ideal outcome heading into next summer. I don’t think this is an outcome that’s beyond our reach.

It means under Miller we’re a playoff trajectory team that has a ton of flexibility and is adding a lotto pick.

Elfrid, Marcus, and Julius play just fine together and the biggest problem with them is keeping Marcus Morris past this year.

We are building. It’s not the same as being fully built. After so many years of crumbs it’s no surprise people won’t recognize half a loaf. Half a loaf is what we have and that’s a good thing.

Good stuff, Facil. 

Not sure what we have, but playing competitive with Portland would be a good sign. 

But so far, Miller seems to have stabilized things on defense, simplified things for Randle to help him attain a base level of performance efficiency, proven a competent in-game coach, and an up and comer int terms of prepping the team to play.  Players spoke of his game plan for the Nyets, and that was a rare FUN WIN, particularly sticking it to Dimwiddie (who is a player I respect and admire, but he has been a little loose with his lips, and was made to account for it). 

As per Dawg and our plans or lack thereof, well, the coaching change was much mocked in the media and amongst the coaching fraternity (save for Jeff Van Gundy, for whom Miller had toiled as an assistant on the International Stage), but it seems to have at the very least been a wake up call--A SOURCE OF FOCUS--for our disjointed scrum of free agents to be.  Props to Allan Houston for championing his coaching protege. 

As per BoD and his withering disdain for all thing Julius Randle, I finally had an opportunity to watch my DVR of the game, and now you have me confused, BoD.  The way you spun things I was expecting to see a Randle dominating cats in wheel chairs, like a special Olympics kind of a hang.  I don't give a fuck how many second rounders and G League cats the Wiz have, and OBVIOUSLY then are seriously undermanned, but I saw some competitive MFs wearing Wizards jerseys, and this is THE FUCKING NBA.  Randle is playing playing under control...he is playing more to his strengths..is playing a balanced game as an inside/outside scorer, rebounder and facilitator.  Still commits too many turnovers, but hell, Elfrid Payton of all people was a turnover machine the other night.   

I trust if Julius does not rise to such 30-10-5 levels against a more dangerous, fully-functional team such as Portland, we'll get to hear you roll out some more smug dismissals, further proof that I am an incorrigible pussy, with suspect judgement.  As well you might. 

Have at it. 

But in the meantime, what I perceive in Julius Randle, is a cat who wanted the big stage, who wanted to be the bell cow, who withered under the hot lights midst the chaos and confusion of Fizdale's dubious stratagems, as the ex-coach struggled to make sense of his roster, and to impart some semblance of structure.  JR is finding his sea legs, and his confidence, and is playing with some sense of purpose and leadership. 

BoD thinks he's a bum.  Fair enough.  JR is reminding me of When Amare was healthy and had that stretch of double double games, albeit, with a more coherent, more talented squad in the pre-Melo Epoch. 

But then, during free agency, deluded misfit that I am, and unconvinced that he had any fucking shot at Durant or Irving, I was pulling for Julius Randle...and Bobby Portis.  SO BLAME ME.  They were Chip's signings. 

Anyway, Melo comes home, with a dangerous and talented Portland team.  Let's see which Knicks team shows up for their 2020 debut, who wants to remain a Knick, and who might just be trade bait. 

(https://imagesvc.timeincapp.com/v3/fan/image?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdailyknicks.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fgetty-images%2F2017%2F07%2F1182544344.jpeg&c=sc&w=736&h=485)

PS: It would behoove Bullock, with his rep as a SG/SF who can defend and shoot the lights out, to come out and have a Sprewell type opening game as a Knick.  Fingers crossed. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 30, 2019, 10:03:21 AM
Things could change, but Smith is considered third on the depth chart as Payton/Ntilikina give the Knicks the defensive posture Miller wants.



Not so sure, when all are healthy.

But doesn't matter - thanks for the POST link
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 30, 2019, 10:09:34 AM
Blazers have not beaten a good team since 10/27 (Mavs)

But they play steady vs teams they should beat.  Lost once to Cavs and once to Thunder, wining all others since then (after a quick scan, so assumes I didnt overlook one)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 30, 2019, 10:23:43 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 30, 2019, 10:09:34 AM
Blazers have not beaten a good team since 10/27 (Mavs)

But they play steady vs teams they should beat.  Lost once to Cavs and once to Thunder, wining all others since then (after a quick scan, so assumes I didnt overlook one)

Yet oddly enough, we beat Dallas twice, in highly charged contests, with a motivated KP and Timmy, and an absolutely out of his mind Luca, doing his best imitation of Pistol RePeater, Larry Birdfeeder and Drazen Petrovic. 
Title: Lonzo BALLING
Post by: chipstern on December 30, 2019, 10:27:51 AM
Lonzo Ball with a breakout game against the Rockets.

Albeit, without no Harden or Westbrook (or Tyson Chandler), but again, hardly a special Olympics Team. 

10-20

7-12

With 10 boards, 8 assists and 2 steals. 

JRUE [10-18, 4-9, 2 boards, 5 assists, 2 blocks].

Nice back court. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 30, 2019, 03:17:39 PM
I thought I've been pretty mild in my criticisms of Randle.
Haven't mentioned turnovers and such.
Wish he played better D.  Then I could live with his limitations.
Still think he's a hard guy to build around.
Mitch & Randle seem like they clog the paint too much together
And since RJB is shaky on 3's, need to add outside shooters and defenders. Randle is also best as your 3rd O option.  And with a genuine PG, so Randle handles less.

I think folks are getting a little giddy and lightheaded from a handful of wins.  Play .500 the rest of the season?  Er, no one predicted the Knix playing .500 this year.  We're not that good or talented.

Excising Fizz and his switching and guard the paint ideas has helped.  As has having Elf back.  But mostly we've beaten weak teams.  I like Chip proclaiming THIS IS THE NBA, as I'm pointing out that the Wiz players out there really weren't.  The starting PF who Randle matched up against was recently playing in Israel, possibly for Amare's team.  Sometimes you get a schedule win, when another team is gimpy or tired etc.  You take it but don't predict greatness off of it.

I'm fine sticking with Randle a couple more years.  I'm more interested in RJB, Mitch and Knox's development.  Cleaning out Mills and his crew.  Adding another high draft pick.  Finding a starting PG.  Choosing a direction and possibly sticking to it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 30, 2019, 04:22:04 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 30, 2019, 03:17:39 PM
I thought I've been pretty mild in my criticisms of Randle.
Haven't mentioned turnovers and such.
Wish he played better D.  Then I could live with his limitations.
Still think he's a hard guy to build around.
Mitch & Randle seem like they clog the paint too much together
And since RJB is shaky on 3's, need to add outside shooters and defenders. Randle is also best as your 3rd O option.  And with a genuine PG, so Randle handles less.

I think folks are getting a little giddy and lightheaded from a handful of wins.  Play .500 the rest of the season?  Er, no one predicted the Knix playing .500 this year.  We're not that good or talented.

Excising Fizz and his switching and guard the paint ideas has helped.  As has having Elf back.  But mostly we've beaten weak teams.  I like Chip proclaiming THIS IS THE NBA, as I'm pointing out that the Wiz players out there really weren't.  The starting PF who Randle matched up against was recently playing in Israel, possibly for Amare's team.  Sometimes you get a schedule win, when another team is gimpy or tired etc.  You take it but don't predict greatness off of it.

I'm fine sticking with Randle a couple more years.  I'm more interested in RJB, Mitch and Knox's development.  Cleaning out Mills and his crew.  Adding another high draft pick.  Finding a starting PG.  Choosing a direction and possibly sticking to it.

And getting some drop dead SHOOTERS. 

Many of Julius' faux pas and imperfections drop away with better shooters, much as the double and triple teams also drop away, or least ways, are more manageable. 

Would LOVE IT if Juilus was a second or third option.  That would mean we have a more balanced offense. 

Are we a .500% team the rest of the way?

Even my glasses are not tinted quite that deep a shade of rosy. 

PS: Anyone think we'd have picked RJ if we had the #2 pick? 

Title: Re: Lonzo BALLING
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 30, 2019, 05:01:58 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 30, 2019, 10:27:51 AM
Lonzo Ball with a breakout game against the Rockets.

Albeit, without no Harden or Westbrook (or Tyson Chandler), but again, hardly a special Olympics Team. 

10-20

7-12

With 10 boards, 8 assists and 2 steals. 

JRUE [10-18, 4-9, 2 boards, 5 assists, 2 blocks].

Nice back court.

Except, wonder of wonders - Ball does not start.

Excellent player.  One of Yankguy's faves.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 30, 2019, 05:04:16 PM
PS: Anyone think we'd have picked RJ if we had the #2 pick?


yes
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 30, 2019, 05:13:42 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 30, 2019, 05:04:16 PM
PS: Anyone think we'd have picked RJ if we had the #2 pick?


yes

If we had a shot at Jah Morant? 
Title: Re: Lonzo BALLING
Post by: Yankguy1 on December 30, 2019, 07:16:08 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 30, 2019, 05:01:58 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 30, 2019, 10:27:51 AM
Lonzo Ball with a breakout game against the Rockets.

Albeit, without no Harden or Westbrook (or Tyson Chandler), but again, hardly a special Olympics Team. 

10-20

7-12

With 10 boards, 8 assists and 2 steals. 

JRUE [10-18, 4-9, 2 boards, 5 assists, 2 blocks].

Nice back court.

Except, wonder of wonders - Ball does not start.

Excellent player.  One of Yankguy's faves.
A generational talent!!!
Title: Sometimes you get a schedule win
Post by: carlos123 on December 30, 2019, 10:12:50 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 30, 2019, 03:17:39 PM
But mostly we've beaten weak teams.  I like Chip proclaiming THIS IS THE NBA, as I'm pointing out that the Wiz players out there really weren't.  The starting PF who Randle matched up against was recently playing in Israel, possibly for Amare's team.  Sometimes you get a schedule win, when another team is gimpy or tired etc.  You take it but don't predict greatness off of it.


FINAL   1   2   3   4   T
   
Heat
(24-9, 9-8 Away)

39   24   18   24   105
   
Wizards
(10-22, 5-8 Home)

29   42   19   33   123
Title: Re: Lonzo BALLING
Post by: carlos123 on December 30, 2019, 10:20:32 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on December 30, 2019, 07:16:08 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 30, 2019, 05:01:58 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 30, 2019, 10:27:51 AM
Lonzo Ball with a breakout game against the Rockets.

Albeit, without no Harden or Westbrook (or Tyson Chandler), but again, hardly a special Olympics Team. 

10-20

7-12

With 10 boards, 8 assists and 2 steals. 

JRUE [10-18, 4-9, 2 boards, 5 assists, 2 blocks].

Nice back court.

Except, wonder of wonders - Ball does not start.

Excellent player.  One of Yankguy's faves.
A generational talent!!!

(https://files.osgnetworks.tv/15/files/2014/09/Channel-Catfish-Cutbait-Lead-In-Fisherman.jpg)
                 Yank falling for Chico's bait
Title: Hey, Bo Diddley
Post by: chipstern on December 30, 2019, 10:48:46 PM
Guess who that G League/Special Olympics squad from Washington defeated tonight? 

The MIAMI [24-9] HEAT.

Go figure.

Meanwhile, the Wolves taking the Nyets out in overtime with no KAT and no Wiggins. 

PS: You want a trade fantasy, Westbrook ain't for sale, but Karl Anthony Towns might be. 

Marcus Morris, Dennis Smith, Wayne Ellington, our 2020 #1 pick and our #2 pick from Charlotte, and both of the Dallas #1 picks. 

That's a pretty self-serving fantasy.  Marcus could be re-upped as their PF.  Dennis purposed as their PG.  Wayne salary ballast.  If I were Minny I would be asking the Knicks to consider adding Portis and Trier to the scrum.  Maybe a few Of James Dolan's guitars. 

Okay, why the fuck would Minny do that deal?  Could NJ native Towns force their hand, sort of how KP forced the Knicks' hand?   

Oh, never mind. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 30, 2019, 11:50:23 PM
Clearly MIA needs Julius Randle.
Maybe they'll trade us Butler and Dragic . . .

Quote
With the Wizards minus All-Star shooting guard Bradley Beal and five other key members of their rotation, they got huge contributions from an unexpected trio. McRae, a third-year player, Mathews, in his 11th NBA game, and Mahinmi, a 13-year veteran.

Jordan McRae scored a season-high 29 points, Garrison Mathews had a career-high 28 and Ian Mahinmi added a career-best 25 as the depleted Washington Wizards beat the Miami Heat 123-105 on Monday night.

Mathews, whose previous NBA high was six points, scored 20 in the second quarter.

The crazy thing is with 4 or 5 top guys out, only one WIZ starter had a good game (semi-capable stiff Mahinmi), but the bench, meaning 3rd stringers, went off.

McRae    29 / 4 / 8 assists
Smithish 19 / 3 / 7
?? Mathews 28 Pts, 12-13 FT's
Pasecniks 10 boards in 18 mins.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 30, 2019, 11:53:05 PM
What does KAT need around him to win based on his career so far? How do the Knicks get or keep that with what you propose sending out?

There is really one guy I’d trade for cash or a second rounder 10 years out, DSJ, just to give Allen a roster spot. I doubt we can get a player as good as Kadeem Allen for Smith at this point. I guess an expiring we can waive would be ok instead.

I’m inclined to slow the roll and keep it to baby steps based on the one clear hole on the roster.

Dieng, Dedmon, Kornet, and Muscala are guys I’m keeping my eyes on if one of their teams contacts us about our players.

I’d deal out a redundancy - Taj or Bobby, Wayne, Smith plus or minus second rounders depending on the overall package.

Anything that feels like treading water or any kind of step back as an overall deal without addressing rim protection depth is pure shit in my opinion. I am willing to come out slightly behind in overall talent relative to the status quo to get rim protection depth.  I am happy to accept obviously lopsided trades in our favor with out this caveat.
Title: Re: Hey, Bo Diddley
Post by: FWK00 on December 31, 2019, 12:04:05 AM
Quote from: chipstern on December 30, 2019, 10:48:46 PM
Guess who that G League/Special Olympics squad from Washington defeated tonight? 

The MIAMI [24-9] HEAT.

Go figure.

Meanwhile, the Wolves taking the Nyets out in overtime with no KAT and no Wiggins. 

PS: You want a trade fantasy, Westbrook ain't for sale, but Karl Anthony Towns might be. 

Marcus Morris, Dennis Smith, Wayne Ellington, our 2020 #1 pick and our #2 pick from Charlotte, and both of the Dallas #1 picks. 

That's a pretty self-serving fantasy.  Marcus could be re-upped as their PF.  Dennis purposed as their PG.  Wayne salary ballast.  If I were Minny I would be asking the Knicks to consider adding Portis and Trier to the scrum.  Maybe a few Of James Dolan's guitars. 

Okay, why the fuck would Minny do that deal?  Could NJ native Towns force their hand, sort of how KP forced the Knicks' hand?   

Oh, never mind.

Trader Chip.  It takes us years to stockpile our draft picks and in one fell swoop they're gone.

I think if KAT is available, its a must-have acquisition. Which means NY will be charged a premium.

So something like Portis, Morris, Ellington, Payton, Knox and the two Dallas FRPs for KAT, Dieng, and Layman. Throw in DSJ if they want.

And let me just qualify the ballast - Ellington is ballast based on recent history but could recover in Minny.  Dieng and Layman are largely expendable costs in Minny.  Just guessing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 31, 2019, 03:12:42 AM
http://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7263023 (http://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7263023)

DSJ & DOT for Dunn and Kornet.

Porter Gets hurt a lot. Valentine and Hutchinson are coming along, but aren’t all that. Dot is a shooter who’s long enough to give them coverage at 3. He can also D, board, and table set in a backcourt with Lavine or White that’s bigger and a deeper threat making up in boards what he doesn’t get in steals. Dunn has a QO for two million more than Dennis will get next year. They get developed Lavine. Smith has nearly all the talent and similar obstacles to a second or third year Lavine. They don’t Play Luke much. He counts as a rim protector in my book, at least on some nights. Miller already understands his game and his character. If this trade feels unbalanced, which side would need to add what draft compensation to make it work?

Taj Mitch Kornet
Randle Bobby
Morris Knox Ignas
RJ Bullock Trier Ellington
Payton Ntilikina Dunn

I’d still buy out Ellington (or hopefully get or improve a pick for him) and promote Allen.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 31, 2019, 07:20:53 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 31, 2019, 03:12:42 AM
DSJ & DOT for Dunn and Kornet.

Er.  I kind of like both Dunn & Kornet better.
I was thinking Dunn is a slightly more advanced Jr. Smith, but with defensive instincts.  But Dunn's 3-point shot, which was approaching okay in limited tries, has really fallen off this year.
And he seems to get injured even more than Smith.  I guess I'd say that Dunn is a bit better and more playable now but Smith has more potential.  Maybe.  I haven't seen Dunn this year.  And not much Smith either.

I like both Chop Suey and Datsun as role players.  I thought Kornet was adding some toughness and interior D to his game when the Knix ditched him.  I do think we should choose Trier or Dot, but I doubt CHI wants Trier, since LaVine is their resident chucker.

So I'd do it, but it's a side move.  And without trading Portishead, Taj or another F, Kornet wouldn't get any daylight.  Dunn doesn't help with shooting, and we'd still have the 3-headed PG conundrum.  So either Dunn is 3rd string or Franc gets traded or demoted to DNP.

Our problems run deep and we have plenty of fairly decent role players.  So shuffling role players doesn't do much.  But I'd go for a look at Dunn, sure why not.  I'd also play Kornet and see if he can pop in 3's and mix it up.

Markkanen is the guy we should target from CHI.
But how or why the Bulls would give him up is unclear.
Title: Somehow...
Post by: lesterluv on December 31, 2019, 10:33:01 AM
... the fact that we are discussing a trade for Luke Kornet as 2019 comes to a close clarifies the need to find a more fruitful diversion for this dawning new decade.
Title: In Fact...
Post by: lesterluv on December 31, 2019, 10:35:16 AM
THAT'S IT

Enough is enough.

I'm done. 50 years and out.

Resolution made. This shit is crazy. Only so many decades to waste.

*** and no part of the new one will be spent watching the "development" of Kevin Knox's basketball IQ to a point approaching, but not nearly equaling, that of some of the 5th graders I coach.


*** somebody pm me if Mills & Perry are fired or Dolan dies
Title: BS
Post by: chipstern on December 31, 2019, 11:05:44 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on December 31, 2019, 10:35:16 AM
THAT'S IT

Enough is enough.

I'm done. 50 years and out.

Resolution made. This shit is crazy. Only so many decades to waste.

*** and no part of the new one will be spent watching the "development" of Kevin Knox's basketball IQ to a point approaching, but not nearly equaling, that of some of the 5th graders I coach.


*** somebody pm me if Mills & Perry are fired or Dolan dies

No Sale

YOU

Are

A

LIFER

No Parole For The DAWG

PS: Hearing Kornet's name in trade scenarios did precipitate treatment on a defibrillator. 
Title: Interesting
Post by: chipstern on December 31, 2019, 02:44:52 PM
Chris Iseman: Knicks say Reggie Bullock is probable for tomorrow’s game against the Blazers. Damyean Dotson (sore lower back), Frank Ntilikina (sore groin) and DSJ (strained left oblique) are all questionable. – via Twitter ChrisIseman

Fingers crossed for Reggie Bullock.  We can really use what he is purported to bring. 

So no Dot, Frank or DS. 

Bullock, Trier, Kadeem Allen. 

That--AND THE RETURN OF HIS #1 DAWG, Carmelo Anthony--ought to be sufficient plot points to entice Dawg to put on his Prom Tux and shuffle on down to his regular seat in the Garden. 
Title: Re: Interesting
Post by: chipstern on December 31, 2019, 02:47:26 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 31, 2019, 02:44:52 PM
Chris Iseman: Knicks say Reggie Bullock is probable for tomorrow’s game against the Blazers. Damyean Dotson (sore lower back), Frank Ntilikina (sore groin) and DSJ (strained left oblique) are all questionable. – via Twitter ChrisIseman

Fingers crossed for Reggie Bullock.  We can really use what he is purported to bring. 

So no Dot, Frank or DS. 

Bullock, Trier, Kadeem Allen. 

That--AND THE RETURN OF HIS #1 DAWG, Carmelo Anthony--ought to be sufficient plot points to entice Dawg to put on his Prom Tux and shuffle on down to his regular seat in the Garden.

Justin Kubatko: Most losses in the NBA from Jan. 1, 2010 through Dec. 30, 2019: 1️⃣ 521 – Sacramento Kings 2️⃣ 510 – Minnesota Timberwolves 3️⃣ 491 – Brooklyn Nets 4️⃣ 486 – Phoenix Suns 5️⃣ 484 – New York Knicks * regular season only – via Twitter jkubatko
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 31, 2019, 04:06:49 PM
Should be interesting to see how the available reserve guards play.

I think all our defenders are decent or better on ball for their size and all would look better if we could get more than 23 mins a game from a credible rim protector. We’ve got Mitch and he’s currently giving us just south of that which is better than his rookie year, but still not enough.

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7263262 (https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7263262)

Smith and Ellington for Dedmon. Gives us 40 minutes (or12 fouls) of credible center for less than 15 mil this year and next.

Dedmon Robinson Taj
Randle Portis
Morris Knox Ignas
Barrett Dot Bullock Trier
Payton Ntilikina Kadeem

Bullock could credibly displace Knox or Dotson in the rotation if he plays well and shows fit.

Kadeem Allen might pass Frank.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 31, 2019, 05:48:08 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 31, 2019, 04:06:49 PM
Should be interesting to see how the available reserve guards play.

I think all our defenders are decent or better on ball for their size and all would look better if we could get more than 23 mins a game from a credible rim protector. We’ve got Mitch and he’s currently giving us just south of that which is better than his rookie year, but still not enough.

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7263262 (https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7263262)

Smith and Ellington for Dedmon. Gives us 40 minutes (or12 fouls) of credible center for less than 15 mil this year and next.

Dedmon Robinson Taj
Randle Portis
Morris Knox Ignas
Barrett Dot Bullock Trier
Payton Ntilikina Kadeem

Bullock could credibly displace Knox or Dotson in the rotation if he plays well and shows fit.

Kadeem Allen might pass Frank.

Seem to recall that last season we had this Enes Kanter fellow, but alas, Coach Fizz and Coach Kam didn't like him. 

Today, in a Celtics stomping of Charlotte, Enes made the most of his 23 minutes, going 6-7 from the floor with 14 rebounds, 2 assists and 6 blocks, for a +15. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on December 31, 2019, 06:05:15 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 31, 2019, 05:48:08 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 31, 2019, 04:06:49 PM
Should be interesting to see how the available reserve guards play.

I think all our defenders are decent or better on ball for their size and all would look better if we could get more than 23 mins a game from a credible rim protector. We’ve got Mitch and he’s currently giving us just south of that which is better than his rookie year, but still not enough.

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7263262 (https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7263262)

Smith and Ellington for Dedmon. Gives us 40 minutes (or12 fouls) of credible center for less than 15 mil this year and next.

Dedmon Robinson Taj
Randle Portis
Morris Knox Ignas
Barrett Dot Bullock Trier
Payton Ntilikina Kadeem

Bullock could credibly displace Knox or Dotson in the rotation if he plays well and shows fit.

Kadeem Allen might pass Frank.

Seem to recall that last season we had this Enes Kanter fellow, but alas, Coach Fizz and Coach Kam didn't like him. 

Today, in a Celtics stomping of Charlotte, Enes made the most of his 23 minutes, going 6-7 from the floor with 14 rebounds, 2 assists and 6 blocks, for a +15.

Kanter has been real solid in mostly an off-the-bench 2nd team roll. He's done a real good job on the boards, O and D, can score, and the Celts team speed and rotations can help cover-up his weakness in the PnR.  All in all a good addition to a team in dire need of a big, with the loss of Horford and Baynes.

Looking down the road, would not be a shock to see Ainge shop for more size for the smallish Celts.
Title: Re: In Fact...
Post by: FWK00 on December 31, 2019, 06:16:51 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on December 31, 2019, 10:35:16 AM
THAT'S IT

Enough is enough.

I'm done. 50 years and out.

Resolution made. This shit is crazy. Only so many decades to waste.

*** and no part of the new one will be spent watching the "development" of Kevin Knox's basketball IQ to a point approaching, but not nearly equaling, that of some of the 5th graders I coach.

*** somebody pm me if Mills & Perry are fired or Dolan dies
Don't do it Dawg.  Don't put yourself on ignore.

We're turning a corner I tell ya.  Any minute now,,,, any minute....


Title: Re: In Fact...
Post by: chipstern on December 31, 2019, 06:35:08 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on December 31, 2019, 06:16:51 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on December 31, 2019, 10:35:16 AM
THAT'S IT

Enough is enough.

I'm done. 50 years and out.

Resolution made. This shit is crazy. Only so many decades to waste.

*** and no part of the new one will be spent watching the "development" of Kevin Knox's basketball IQ to a point approaching, but not nearly equaling, that of some of the 5th graders I coach.

*** somebody pm me if Mills & Perry are fired or Dolan dies
Don't do it Dawg.  Don't put yourself on ignore.

We're turning a corner I tell ya.  Any minute now,,,, any minute....

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/71a4cd21ba8e8f11c76dcd7e5d3be152/tenor.gif?itemid=11484699)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 31, 2019, 06:49:40 PM
Z-Bo just retired, so Les is a little less today.  He'll come out of it.

I didn't realize POR just lost 4 straight.  but did note that their 4 game winning streak was against creampuffs.  Melo 4-16 in latest L.  A comeback PHX W.  Uber went off 7-10 on 3's.  Likely his career game on 3's.

Uber K has been playing a ton of minutes.  And actually has has 2 or more assists in his last 6 games.  Had 20 / 15 / 5 the game before v. Sacto. Also 8 steals in his last 4 games.  .  Up to 1.7 assists and 1.5 steals per for the season.  Close to 18 / 6 / 2.  45% - 34% - 80% shooting splits.
Title: Enes Kanter wishes a Happy New Year to The Kam(s)ter
Post by: carlos123 on December 31, 2019, 07:57:28 PM
BENCH       MIN   FG   3PT   FT   ORE         DREB          REB   AST   STL   BLK   TO   PF   +/-     PTS
E. KanterC   23   6-7   0-0   1-2      2            12            14      2        0       6     0    5    +15     13

HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL, INCLUDING THE KAM(S)TER!
Title: Re: Enes Kanter wishes a Happy New Year to The Kam(s)ter
Post by: Kam on December 31, 2019, 08:53:10 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 31, 2019, 07:57:28 PM
BENCH       MIN   FG   3PT   FT   ORE         DREB          REB   AST   STL   BLK   TO   PF   +/-     PTS
E. KanterC   23   6-7   0-0   1-2      2            12            14      2        0       6     0    5    +15     13

HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL, INCLUDING THE KAM(S)TER!

He was getting the same minutes last year for four times the money but complaining!

Hope he's happy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 01, 2020, 01:02:26 AM
Kadeem Allen might pass Frank.


Jeez - give it a rest
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 01, 2020, 02:17:46 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 01, 2020, 01:02:26 AM
Kadeem Allen might pass Frank.


Jeez - give it a rest

 https://youtu.be/DNPoiMrx12w (https://youtu.be/DNPoiMrx12w)

 https://youtu.be/uyvLyl3vu-s (https://youtu.be/uyvLyl3vu-s)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 01, 2020, 09:36:43 AM
And Allen shined in his (only?) appearance earlier this year.

Will be good to see him again.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 01, 2020, 09:37:27 AM
Wolves say NO KAT TRADE

One piece said Nets, Celtics, Hawks were possibles, given assets of each of those teams (Dinwiddie-Allen, Tatum/Heyward - Collins/Huerter  at the forefront with picks)

The latest

https://hoopshype.com/storyline/karl-anthony-towns-trade/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 01, 2020, 09:39:00 AM
Quote from: elephant on January 01, 2020, 09:36:43 AM
And Allen shined in his (only?) appearance earlier this year.

Will be good to see him again.

Has hit 20 of 41 three pointers as a Knick
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 01, 2020, 09:46:51 AM
Allen had to be the league's oldest draft  pick.

Out of University of Arizona - was 24 1/2 years of age when drafted 53rd in 2017

What's his story?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 01, 2020, 10:20:06 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 01, 2020, 09:37:27 AM
Wolves say NO KAT TRADE

One piece said Nets, Celtics, Hawks were possibles, given assets of each of those teams (Dinwiddie-Allen, Tatum/Hayward - Collins/Huerter  at the forefront with picks)

Interesting trade ideas.
Dimwilly looks ready to run his own team and MiNi needs a PG.  Allen is a nice young rim-adjacent C.  Nets could throw in Musa or Kurucs.  Minny would have:
Dinwiddie - Wiggins - Culver -Covington - Jarhead Allen
Teague - Okogie - Bates-Diop - Kurucs - Dieng

They'd be relying on Wiggy heavily.  But Covington could get more touches.  And Dinwiddie is a nice scorer/competitor.

Nets would have Kyrie - KD - KAT.  Market that in Brooklyn as KKK and what could go wrong  ...

Seriously though, a Nets trade is interesting for both teams. 
You hate to give up the best player in a deal, but they're losing with KAT, they need a PG . . .

A Tatum + package is probably an easier sell to the fanbase, but Wolves would still need a PG.  BOS would get the BIG they need at a serious cost.  They'd still have Kemba - Smart - Jaylen - KAT.  But Tatum is a big part of their identity, and he looks to be an all-star soon enough.  I'd do it for BOS if they kept Hayward and moved some other pieces -- Tatum + Theis + Robert Williams.  Hell, I'd probably do Tatum and Hayward, but much rather do Jaylen and Hayward (+ Theis).

Very interesting.
Thanks for that info.
(also makes it clear Knix have little to offer)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on January 01, 2020, 10:56:42 AM
A Tatum + package is probably an easier sell to the fanbase, but Wolves would still need a PG.  BOS would get the BIG they need at a serious cost.  They'd still have Kemba - Smart - Jaylen - KAT.  But Tatum is a big part of their identity, and he looks to be an all-star soon enough.  I'd do it for BOS if they kept Hayward and moved some other pieces -- Tatum + Theis + Robert Williams.  Hell, I'd probably do Tatum and Hayward, but much rather do Jaylen and Hayward (+ Theis).


Celts have very few bad contracts or large contracts to trade in a KAT type trade.

Brown is still under his rookie deal and his new deal doesn't kick in until next year. 

the other obvious centerpiece of a TW-Celts trade would be Tatum, but unless the Celts sign him to an extension ASAP, the trade chemistry doesn't seem to be avaialble. Still not sure it would work in a '20 trade (according to NBA rules)

The only player that seems to work according to the trade machine is Gordo for KAT.

Would TW entertain Gordo, the Memphis '20 #1, (1-6 protected in '20, then unprotected in '21) and  maybe 2 more 1s?

Celts might have to wait until next year to go KAT fishing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 01, 2020, 12:32:01 PM
I hadn't looked at the payrolls.
Damn, Kemba makes a lot!

I can see why a deal would probably need to center around Hayward.

This is kind of interesting:
KAT + Dieng = Hayward, Theis and one of Tatum/Jaylen

Minny would get 3 good players and ditch Dieng's big next year.

If this went down it would likely be BOS trying to pry KAT away, assuming MINNy wants to keep their franchise guy.  So they get a young replacement possible all-star in Tatum (or Jaylen), an overpaid jack of all trades Gordo, and a serviceable C.

Meaning Minny would demand a steep price for KAT.
And the niggling could be over Tatum or Jaylen.

Would you go for that bank?  With Jaylen in the trade?  Or Tatum?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on January 01, 2020, 01:14:41 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 01, 2020, 12:32:01 PM
I hadn't looked at the payrolls.
Damn, Kemba makes a lot!

I can see why a deal would probably need to center around Hayward.

This is kind of interesting:
KAT + Dieng = Hayward, Theis and one of Tatum/Jaylen

Minny would get 3 good players and ditch Dieng's big next year.

If this went down it would likely be BOS trying to pry KAT away, assuming MINNy wants to keep their franchise guy.  So they get a young replacement possible all-star in Tatum (or Jaylen), an overpaid jack of all trades Gordo, and a serviceable C.

Meaning Minny would demand a steep price for KAT.
And the niggling could be over Tatum or Jaylen.

Would you go for that bank?  With Jaylen in the trade?  Or Tatum?

IDK

I assume one of the J's has to go in a KAT trade, its like Sophie's Choice, (sorry if anyone's offended) there is no good choice. Both players have very high upsides and are getting better. Those guys will be 2-way monsters.

If I'm giving up either one plus Gordo (if he stays healthy he's a very good and smart player, he could be a difference maker this year if no trade for a big is pulled off, IMO jack of all trades underplays his abilities) I don't want Dieng, I keep Theis, and perhaps go instead for Covington.

That one works on the trade machine

Tatum + Hayward = KAT + Covington

I might stand pat thought, I really like the Celts as designed, even if they're a little small, They're legit good and if everyone ever plays together are deep and will be a pain in the ass in a series.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 01, 2020, 02:56:48 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on January 01, 2020, 01:14:41 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 01, 2020, 12:32:01 PM
I hadn't looked at the payrolls.
Damn, Kemba makes a lot!

I can see why a deal would probably need to center around Hayward.

This is kind of interesting:
KAT + Dieng = Hayward, Theis and one of Tatum/Jaylen

Minny would get 3 good players and ditch Dieng's big next year.

If this went down it would likely be BOS trying to pry KAT away, assuming MINNy wants to keep their franchise guy.  So they get a young replacement possible all-star in Tatum (or Jaylen), an overpaid jack of all trades Gordo, and a serviceable C.

Meaning Minny would demand a steep price for KAT.
And the niggling could be over Tatum or Jaylen.

Would you go for that bank?  With Jaylen in the trade?  Or Tatum?

IDK

I assume one of the J's has to go in a KAT trade, its like Sophie's Choice, (sorry if anyone's offended) there is no good choice. Both players have very high upsides and are getting better. Those guys will be 2-way monsters.

If I'm giving up either one plus Gordo (if he stays healthy he's a very good and smart player, he could be a difference maker this year if no trade for a big is pulled off, IMO jack of all trades underplays his abilities) I don't want Dieng, I keep Theis, and perhaps go instead for Covington.

That one works on the trade machine

Tatum + Hayward = KAT + Covington

I might stand pat thought, I really like the Celts as designed, even if they're a little small, They're legit good and if everyone ever plays together are deep and will be a pain in the ass in a series.

Wiggins + Hayward + Tatum = REDUNDANT
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 01, 2020, 03:08:28 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 01, 2020, 02:56:48 PM
Wiggins + Hayward + Tatum = REDUNDANT

Yeah, but Tatum, Haywire, Jaylen is working for BOS.
And Minny wouldn't be done, they need a PG.
So would try to flip one of Hayward/Wiggins for a PG.  Probably newcomer Hayward. 

No way does Mini trade KAT and Covington for Tatum + Hayward.
Dieng in my deal allows Minny to ditch salary; he's just ballast.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on January 01, 2020, 03:53:39 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 01, 2020, 02:56:48 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on January 01, 2020, 01:14:41 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 01, 2020, 12:32:01 PM
I hadn't looked at the payrolls.
Damn, Kemba makes a lot!

I can see why a deal would probably need to center around Hayward.

This is kind of interesting:
KAT + Dieng = Hayward, Theis and one of Tatum/Jaylen

Minny would get 3 good players and ditch Dieng's big next year.

If this went down it would likely be BOS trying to pry KAT away, assuming MINNy wants to keep their franchise guy.  So they get a young replacement possible all-star in Tatum (or Jaylen), an overpaid jack of all trades Gordo, and a serviceable C.

Meaning Minny would demand a steep price for KAT.
And the niggling could be over Tatum or Jaylen.

Would you go for that bank?  With Jaylen in the trade?  Or Tatum?

IDK

I assume one of the J's has to go in a KAT trade, its like Sophie's Choice, (sorry if anyone's offended) there is no good choice. Both players have very high upsides and are getting better. Those guys will be 2-way monsters.

If I'm giving up either one plus Gordo (if he stays healthy he's a very good and smart player, he could be a difference maker this year if no trade for a big is pulled off, IMO jack of all trades underplays his abilities) I don't want Dieng, I keep Theis, and perhaps go instead for Covington.

That one works on the trade machine

Tatum + Hayward = KAT + Covington

I might stand pat thought, I really like the Celts as designed, even if they're a little small, They're legit good and if everyone ever plays together are deep and will be a pain in the ass in a series.

Wiggins + Hayward + Tatum = REDUNDANT

Somewhere Frank Ramsey and John Havlicek are sharing a laugh with Red Auerbach.
Title: David Stern
Post by: Kam on January 01, 2020, 04:11:48 PM
Peace.
Title: Re: David Stern
Post by: bankshot1 on January 01, 2020, 04:19:47 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 01, 2020, 04:11:48 PM
Peace.

RIP Commish
Title: Re: David Stern
Post by: facilitatorn on January 01, 2020, 04:33:27 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on January 01, 2020, 04:19:47 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 01, 2020, 04:11:48 PM
Peace.

RIP Commish

Wow. He made hoops the best home grown sport in the country and the only one ready for export.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 01, 2020, 04:54:48 PM
Reportedly Doc would like to get Aaron Baynes to the Clips by offloading Ivica Zubac. For some reason, Zubac is reported unattractive to Phoenix so Doc would need to incorporate a 3rd team.

I would offer Dennis and the lower of our eventual 2021 first rounders for that talented and long term cost controlled big.
Title: Kam(i)anne Conway
Post by: carlos123 on January 01, 2020, 07:41:48 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 31, 2019, 08:53:10 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 31, 2019, 07:57:28 PM
BENCH       MIN   FG   3PT   FT   ORE         DREB          REB   AST   STL   BLK   TO   PF   +/-     PTS
E. KanterC   23   6-7   0-0   1-2      2            12            14      2        0       6     0    5    +15     13

HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL, INCLUDING THE KAM(S)TER!

He was getting the same minutes last year for four times the money but complaining!

Hope he's happy.

That's an interesting ALTERNATIVE FACT.

Phony Phizz decided to play him ZERO minutes. Once he made a mistake and called Kanter number, only to recall him to the bench when he saw him getting ready to enter the game. Maybe those few seconds count as the greatest number of minutes ever played in a game.

Anyway, Enes loves you too.
Title: Re: Kam(i)anne Conway
Post by: Kam on January 01, 2020, 07:50:28 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 01, 2020, 07:41:48 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 31, 2019, 08:53:10 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 31, 2019, 07:57:28 PM
BENCH       MIN   FG   3PT   FT   ORE         DREB          REB   AST   STL   BLK   TO   PF   +/-     PTS
E. KanterC   23   6-7   0-0   1-2      2            12            14      2        0       6     0    5    +15     13

HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL, INCLUDING THE KAM(S)TER!

He was getting the same minutes last year for four times the money but complaining!

Hope he's happy.

That's an interesting ALTERNATIVE FACT.

Phony Phizz decided to play him ZERO minutes.

Only after Enes held press conferences at his locker claiming he was an all-star and not getting the minutes he wanted.
Title: Press conferences
Post by: carlos123 on January 01, 2020, 08:26:17 PM
Press conferences? All-star claims? More interesting alternative facts.

Ok, whatever. Phony Phizz appreciates your support.

Uh, got a good game going.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 01, 2020, 09:02:59 PM
Fisdale was comfortable with losing.  Miller is coaching for his life.
Title: Melo
Post by: Kam on January 01, 2020, 09:04:53 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 01, 2020, 08:26:17 PM

Uh, got a good game going.

Vintage Melo tonight.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 01, 2020, 10:03:43 PM
2020 ok far Knicks so far.

Frank is coming. Shhhhhhh.

Bullock looked just like I hoped he would.

Our bigs were amazing.

Peak Melo was not nearly enough for Portland.

That was truly as fun a game as I’ve watched in a number of years.

Patience will be rewarded.

Huge night from Mitch.

We can still use another rim protector.
Title: Phony Phizz
Post by: carlos123 on January 01, 2020, 10:46:56 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 01, 2020, 09:02:59 PM
Fisdale was comfortable with losing.  Miller is coaching for his life.

You got that right. Like he said, he had a contract.

So good we got a real coach. This game was FUN. Haven't felt so good about the Knicks for a long time.

Us Positive Pussies finally got something to cheer about.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/OLoga6okyLLMOq2m_1_ZoexdHn7qgwRMudO-XoG5o1ZAdkgNaga1OT9GvoFrWbD6V6lgFPUHw-68D2ztoLBiV42MtDt-gSystumPfmiNouBb6PdA4-eGifV7upgAtwZjv1MGTvuKAtelceZ2JjbdrB-nk7cRsSOncJ1BraPnGCnnaVZvml_r3L5UMn6NIi1N3iRksuH4SC_VC4p_i2DeGLU_nwlNkrp7ubOb0-wKskcc1W5IrYRAg-XqpP4lNCgUMavzu26RgnZcaLeJSwM-znlpbz6LHykKSpSB-7c1KtGv4EmYwkq1wVJQXStgV4IGA4oTnJt_PC8Zbrqq00Bs5nZoB5T9-CG0TQNsVuxhDmBiGRCeGWhlTvTx9pAcQl39RX2iFjdhok3d3QMWFS6EwTp_FmWS_NemP3L_n_cJ--SYO5goRZ3AEZFwNOh8duZQRXGPQXzQzutihwSGcfIXtvxZQL_jtT1XPcrzj1dBGOXlU-qWpfG0wVRMJ7CAf64PJjuiNLcIfi0uQAFRXKw44NPZGSo5N4kRhPtbOuNIrOma7U8i6hDGCHhjhK39ni5xo0C9hZMHBEupacYev777bvVTYXXi5nzpcjh8arkM3FmNuWZYlmJYHxQaoXBz0-zh8N1Yh6MgRJWIX_aO1DyPhzdfDFUzffvrXmEmhhKirE47ukryMzl58w=w644-h493-no)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/5h-QWJ-6FM4N1CgqXlSnY8lS-JWXFkcGZbciUZJ8uIMCwXQ_PvSHBp7LxVXaOk8zKfCQ4-NHqv1MryFJ_qlX5nyp5XJfDUeHw6r1xC2AWkvGBJSDpQBcCU2YLocr8Vr-Bu3oX_oaSw0GF4ZWe4s0hyKQ3nVIDECq8sXoYvYAGRrs3HXLIIcmktZFTZrXl3A7svn4g7Y3sOzjquNdFDBiY7l3DK46Y1WTA6KgplxPt8REvrtmu4OUMoZ-ARDSYkqBdkZ9xCiPEnKqB6uF3ZJ8CK4ETyhV68VMQPukRfV5slj2QEcgISpBxeGfrIcmFtUT7xcG9hg5xPV48k-jlGAV03JRtyizI2qkP5iIYXrF1ovMjGbM_elUq-L7cvIRMOS3T5oFzE3Ut1-JBykWWE1dVNccGgC2CGBJu_9FlDtpXg-CdU-8AWw6qOl54IfdTxxv0-BdHmTToco-e5ajz8UmKJ87JaUAjUqqq8aOI3qtb7VyXe9DJ5uaV9VWYjO_zaGXT_UH1INOrdxV3EmovJtP7z-45yt-oFljtvYta5uenhkLB4rUZS9RY9YzeNMlTJTkaXuuLjqgwbWquqmN8mrkGiwvPz-8xXYED_Ls3a3jUB5VYzSmwv47z7YAdWHbBjAsmiESAkLM-A9qU1ucfJ_bQ2diw7CuT3O8Pq5ZpFIY3SjIAThs6_ouyA=w599-h460-no)

Anybody want to join the club?
(https://media0.giphy.com/media/ToCRja2miF3Xi/source.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 01, 2020, 10:50:54 PM
With the victory, our coach is 500 with this team.

Not shabby!
Title: Me 3
Post by: lesterluv on January 01, 2020, 10:58:54 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 01, 2020, 10:46:56 PM

So good we got a real coach. This game was FUN. Haven't felt so good about the Knicks for a long time.


Sure was. Good thing I got over Z'Bo's passing in time to bounce back and watch....

Nice start to 2020 for Knick fans.

*** easy to believe Damian and perhaps a few other Trailblazers may have been suffering from the aftermath of spending New Year's Eve in the Big Apple, but whatever, we'll still take it.

**** hard to believe, 1,000 posts and a year-and-a-half later, a brand new decade begins with Kam still trying to crawl out of Enes' Anus.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 01, 2020, 11:01:28 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 01, 2020, 10:50:54 PM
With the victory, our coach is 500 with this team.

Not shabby!

Impossible. Even great coaching can’t transform a team from nothing in a month. This can’t be a decent roster despite all the youth we’re carrying and relatively low payroll/high flexibility?

Nah.

Not with the Princeton mafia running things.
Title: Coaching
Post by: carlos123 on January 02, 2020, 01:07:21 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 01, 2020, 11:01:28 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 01, 2020, 10:50:54 PM
With the victory, our coach is 500 with this team.

Not shabby!

Impossible. Even great coaching can’t transform a team from nothing in a month. This can’t be a decent roster despite all the youth we’re carrying and relatively low payroll/high flexibility?

Nah.

Not with the Princeton mafia running things.

How about great coaching after ATROCIOUS coaching? Don’t seem the same team, does it?
Title: Re: Me 3
Post by: carlos123 on January 02, 2020, 01:10:56 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on January 01, 2020, 10:58:54 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 01, 2020, 10:46:56 PM

So good we got a real coach. This game was FUN. Haven't felt so good about the Knicks for a long time.


Sure was. Good thing I got over Z'Bo's passing in time to bounce back and watch....

Nice start to 2020 for Knick fans.

*** easy to believe Damian and perhaps a few other Trailblazers may have been suffering from the aftermath of spending New Year's Eve in the Big Apple, but whatever, we'll still take it.

**** hard to believe, 1,000 posts and a year-and-a-half later, a brand new decade begins with Kam still trying to crawl out of Enes' Anus.

So glad u 3 Les. U my doggie, but if you’re in the pussy club u may have to become a Lestercat... Oh well, lemme think of something 🤔

PS. I don’t care if Damian was spending New Years Eve in the Big Apple. So were the Knicks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 02, 2020, 01:11:45 AM
Carlos, this team is still made up mostly of those same players.

Suggested lineup change should everyone be healthy for the road trip.

Mitch Taj
Randle Portis
Morris Knox
Bullock RJ
Payton Frank

Put for serious vets with Mitch out to start. Takes pressure off of RJ. Dot stays eleventh man barring any deals. Minutes distribution based on performance and matchups according to Mr. Miller’s will and inclination.
Title: Coaching
Post by: carlos123 on January 02, 2020, 01:18:21 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 02, 2020, 01:11:45 AM
Carlos, this team is still made up mostly of those same players.

What a difference a coach makes, huh?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 02, 2020, 01:31:46 AM
No doubt at all about that. I’m getting about as protective of Mike Miller as I was of JVG and his Civic. We put up a score from this century while holding the Blazers to a last century output. Against a coach who is himself known to be pretty good. There are no longer long stretches of continually repeating useless sets and schemes.
Title: John Starks > Frank Ntilikina
Post by: chipstern on January 02, 2020, 02:12:25 AM
(https://media.giphy.com/media/YLFeKnfji10xa/giphy.gif)

So Happy For Frank.  A Signature Moment. 

(https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/tucson.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/a/46/a4628084-8f10-575d-92dc-7f04f7e16fb2/5df089d6af6ae.image.jpg?resize=1200%2C806)

PS: Fun

PPS: Fun...Fun...Fucking FUN

PPPS: Miller with a coherent 11-Man Rotation (and everyone made a contribution).  Mitchell Robinson > Octo-PositivePussy.  Randle cementing his status As A Leader.  Morris and Portis coming up big.  Frank with a breakout game [combined with Payton for 18 assists].  Bullock with an auspicious debut. 

PPPPS: Coherent offense.  Excellent spacing and ball movement and sharing of the rock.  Improved three point and free throw shooting. 

PPPPPS: Drinks all around.  Dawg is buying (and howling at the moon).  Eagerly await Pharoah's ANALYSIS.  And a moratorium on stupid trades. 

PPPPPPS: FUCK MARK JACKSON. 

Okay, the buzz lingers [over already]...next...reality awaits on our western swing: Suns, Clippers, Lakers and Jazz.  YIKES.  Coach Miller's in game adjustments have been spot on, and his practice/preparation commendable.  Miller is what, 6-6 since taking over from Steve Harvey, er, David Fizdale.  Somewhere, BoD is lurking, contemplating whether to comment on the quality of our opponents.  Well, all rough match-ups awaits, including Monty Williams' much improved Suns.  WE SHALL SEE.  The Knicks Coaching Gig Is Mike Miller's To Lose. 

(https://imagesvc.timeincapp.com/v3/fan/image?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdailyknicks.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fgetty-images%2F2017%2F07%2F1192608781.jpeg&c=sc&w=736&h=485)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 02, 2020, 02:58:19 AM
Well, POR is 14-21 for a reason and is relying on 35 year old Melo.
Have lost 5 in a row and as far as I can tell hasn't beaten a team over .500 since G3 of the season, when they beat the then 2-0 Mavs.

But this is the type of play the Knix should have been doing.  Getting the starters to play coherently and then using depth to whip out a bench advantage.  Of course, Bobby "Sometimes" Portis and Franc and Mitch are exactly consistent.  Be good if we can find a bench unit that has some chemistry.

29 assists to 7 turnovers must be one of the better efforts of the season.  Knix are 10-24, be good to get some more W's and get the coach some breathing room, but I wouldn't advocate going vet heavy.  We need development (RJB, Knox, Mitch, Franc, Dot) more than we need W's in a lost season.  We need balance.

Gotta keep the momentum up @ PHX and worry about the tough teams after that.  We get PHX x2 amidst some top teams, so better hope we can beat PHX.  They just got Ayton back.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 02, 2020, 03:04:55 AM
Stern is dead.

Don Larsen too. 
Pretty amazing to reach great heights on the biggest stage.

Quote
Darren Collison mulling February return, likely to an LA team

I'd prefer he goes back to INDy.
He really upped his game the last year or two.
I'd rather play for LAC were Pa Bev gets injured a lot, instead of with LeBJ dominating the ball and Rondo there.  Meaning Collison could be more of a PG for the CLips and more of a spot-up shooter for LAL.  I think.  I haven't seen many games this year; haven't seen the new-look Clips.
Title: sell high!
Post by: bodiddley on January 02, 2020, 03:50:11 AM
I really don't understand guys like Fizz.  His guard-the-paint strategy wasn't working.  Switching was too complicated for our newly patched together group of iffy defenders, so teams were just killing us from the perimeter.  And yet he stuck to what wasn't working.

Reminiscent of Woodson who preached switching when we didn't have the personnel for it (as he did previously in ATL).

I can understand trying your preferred approach.  But when it fails, you go on to Plan B.   You have to use strategies that your players are capable of executing.  This I'm Going To Fail My Way instead of making adjustments is bizarre to me.  You have to keep focus on the goal and results, not the process.

Anyway, I thought Fizz was a BS-er from the get-go, and too indulgent with players (mostly Randle our highest paid player; but also RJB our prized rook).  I think in Fizz's world, you let those two do what they want without much guidance and you can float through since your two most important players are happy.  (though nobody is really happy with losing).

I don't have much of a read on Malone, but I like the idea of the Knix just having a hard-working no-name lifer grinding away as coach.  A little old school approach (Fizz thought he was new school, player-friendly, hip) to guide us along.  So far the team has responded, especially Julius Randle.

BTW, next dozen games features 8 against contending teams and 4 against losers.  (there's only two middling teams left in the League -- BKY and OKC -- or really 3 with POR).  So better hope we can beat PHX here and there, @Cle and NOPe.  Because the other 8 games will be rough.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 02, 2020, 08:39:32 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on January 01, 2020, 01:14:41 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 01, 2020, 12:32:01 PM
I hadn't looked at the payrolls.
Damn, Kemba makes a lot!

I can see why a deal would probably need to center around Hayward.

This is kind of interesting:
KAT + Dieng = Hayward, Theis and one of Tatum/Jaylen

Minny would get 3 good players and ditch Dieng's big next year.

If this went down it would likely be BOS trying to pry KAT away, assuming MINNy wants to keep their franchise guy.  So they get a young replacement possible all-star in Tatum (or Jaylen), an overpaid jack of all trades Gordo, and a serviceable C.

Meaning Minny would demand a steep price for KAT.
And the niggling could be over Tatum or Jaylen.

Would you go for that bank?  With Jaylen in the trade?  Or Tatum?

IDK

I assume one of the J's has to go in a KAT trade, its like Sophie's Choice, (sorry if anyone's offended) there is no good choice. Both players have very high upsides and are getting better. Those guys will be 2-way monsters.

If I'm giving up either one plus Gordo (if he stays healthy he's a very good and smart player, he could be a difference maker this year if no trade for a big is pulled off, IMO jack of all trades underplays his abilities) I don't want Dieng, I keep Theis, and perhaps go instead for Covington.

That one works on the trade machine

Tatum + Hayward = KAT + Covington

I might stand pat thought, I really like the Celts as designed, even if they're a little small, They're legit good and if everyone ever plays together are deep and will be a pain in the ass in a series.

That's not really close.  Covington souldnt be in there - and Celts need to add #1s
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 02, 2020, 08:42:23 AM
29 assists to 7 turnovers must be one of the better efforts of the season. 


18 to zero from our point guards

And welcome, Reg Bullock

"My teammates know what I can do...."

Seems he is having strong practices.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on January 02, 2020, 10:07:43 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 02, 2020, 08:39:32 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on January 01, 2020, 01:14:41 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 01, 2020, 12:32:01 PM
I hadn't looked at the payrolls.
Damn, Kemba makes a lot!

I can see why a deal would probably need to center around Hayward.

This is kind of interesting:
KAT + Dieng = Hayward, Theis and one of Tatum/Jaylen

Minny would get 3 good players and ditch Dieng's big next year.

If this went down it would likely be BOS trying to pry KAT away, assuming MINNy wants to keep their franchise guy.  So they get a young replacement possible all-star in Tatum (or Jaylen), an overpaid jack of all trades Gordo, and a serviceable C.

Meaning Minny would demand a steep price for KAT.
And the niggling could be over Tatum or Jaylen.

Would you go for that bank?  With Jaylen in the trade?  Or Tatum?

IDK

I assume one of the J's has to go in a KAT trade, its like Sophie's Choice, (sorry if anyone's offended) there is no good choice. Both players have very high upsides and are getting better. Those guys will be 2-way monsters.

If I'm giving up either one plus Gordo (if he stays healthy he's a very good and smart player, he could be a difference maker this year if no trade for a big is pulled off, IMO jack of all trades underplays his abilities) I don't want Dieng, I keep Theis, and perhaps go instead for Covington.

That one works on the trade machine

Tatum + Hayward = KAT + Covington

I might stand pat thought, I really like the Celts as designed, even if they're a little small, They're legit good and if everyone ever plays together are deep and will be a pain in the ass in a series.

That's not really close.  Covington souldnt be in there - and Celts need to add #1s

Nope its right on the money.

The equation reflects the NBA CBA rules and works under the Trade Machine calculations.

And I agree the TW might want #1s in addition to Tatum and Gordo, and its negotiable to a point.   (as is the inclusion Dieng/Covington etc)

Or the Celts could wait a year and hope the Memphis #1 yields another gem in '20 or '21.

IMO the Celts don't need to trade away two all-stars and a lottery ticket, and restructure a team that should be able to compete at the highest levels for years, for  KAT and Dieng.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Pharoah on January 02, 2020, 11:31:25 AM
The Knicks started 2020 with a win that makes three in a row for the first time this season. New York beat up on the Portland Trail Blazers 117-93, holding a team with Damian Lillard, CJ Mccollum and Carmelo Anthony to 39% from the field. When I say that everything went right, I really mean it. The Knicks shot just under 50% from the field, they hit just under 40% of their three point attempts and they tallied a ridiculous 29:7 assist to turnover ratio. Get this, they even shot a higher percentage from the free throw line (barely). This was a win predicated on tough defense and a ton of ball movement. Even when the Blazers kept it close early, they rode some tough three point makes and an absolute shooting gem from Melo. The one Blazer who came to perform at the Garden was the one guy the Garden came out to show love for. So we Knicks fans got literally everything we could ask for. We got to watch Melo go off at MSG one more time but we still got the blowout with vets and youth alike doing big things...Let's get to the gushing:

Payton: Last night's Frank Ntilikina, "I swear he played better than those numbers say" award went to Elfrid Payton. Payton had a tough shooting night but his playmaking paced the Knicks early and he paired that passing with strong defensive play against Lillard. The entire Knicks had an "anyone but Dame" mentality on the night and Payton might have set that tone too, never letting the Blazers' star have easy looks from three. The starting PG put up 4 points, 8 assists to 0 TO's, 4 boards and 2 blocks in 25 minutes. He did this on 2/9 from the field, 0/3 from three and 0/2 from the free throw line. No he couldn't buy a bucket, but he contributed in other ways and gave the Knicks another night without a single turnover.

RJ: RJ Barrett just can't seem to string together a series of good games lately. He's had some nice games but always followed by tough ones. Against the Blazers, he was due for some struggle and struggle he did. On a night when damn near everyone else played well, the Knicks top pick rookie had a dud. RJ put up 7 points and 4 boards with 3 TO's (no assists). It was another case of the jumper not being there to open up the rest of his attack options. RJ shot 3/12 from the field, 1/4 from three and missed his only FT.

Here's the thing, against a team with Hassan Whiteside waiting in the middle and while chasing around CJ Mccollum most of the night...I can understand the struggle numbers. Barrett still flashed his prowess with a pretty and-one finish to start the game but beating Whiteside inside is all about drawing him in and kicking it to someone else. Barrett seemed to let frustration with the jumper lead to some forces at the rim against tough protection instead. There are some rookie wall signs but it's hard to say when his recent performances have been so tied to whether or not he's getting shots to fall at range.

Morris: Amid some sore achilles reports, Marcus Morris has seen his efficiency slip a bit but is still an impact player. What was nice to see last night was that while he didn't hit jumpers at the insane clip he's notched so far this season, Morris accentuated his game with some nice passing and better work on the boards. Morris put up 18 points, 3 assists and 7 boards. So while he shot 7/19 from the field and 2/7 from three, Morris was able to tally more assists and rebounds than his season average.

If you follow these recaps, I constantly harp on a player finding ways to produce even when he can't score. Marcus Morris has been a go to scorer for most of the season, but right now Randle's taken over that mantle. Morris has responded with multiple assist games in the past three games. When both the Knicks' forwards become threats to be a scorer or a playmaker; the entire offense syncs up in scary fashion.

Randle: When Julius Randle picks his spots instead of attacking indiscriminately, the man is a nightmare to cover. Between his jumper coming around, chemistry with Payton and more touches inside the three point line as opposed to out; we're finally seeing the potential that Randle truly has. Add to that, we're seeing more committed defense to boot. No Knicks player has benefited more from the simplified defense and increase in pick and rolls. Randle notched 22 points, 12 boards and 3 assists to 3 TO's. in 30 minutes. He did so on 8/15 from the field and 3/6 from three.

Randle was one of two players that just felt like he could get whatever he wanted. The big man would shoot when bigs dropped off of him or barrel past them when they got too close. When he was defended well, Randle moved the ball and let the offense reset instead of his typical forces. He did go a little haywire at the end of the first half with a turn over and a pair of bad shots that evaporated a 7 point lead late in the second. But that small run was the only period where we saw old bad habits creep in.

Taj: If there's one knock on Taj Gibson, it's that true centers can be problematic for him as he's a bit undersized. This held true in Gibson's match-up with Hassan Whiteside. As a result of the tough match-up as well as just brilliant play from Mitchell Robinson; Taj only got 10 minutes. He went 1/1 for 2 points and an assist.

Frank: It's funny that with just 7 FGA's in the past two games, Frank Ntilikina has still managed to play some of his most aggressive ball of the season. That's because Ntilikina has made a concerted effort to attack off the dribble and get inside. I've mentioned that Whiteside is a guy that you draw in so that you can put a pass behind him. Well the French Prince did that to perfection all night, throwing alley-oop after alley-oop to Mitchell Robinson. Frank finished with 9 points, 10 assists to 0 TO's, 3 boards on 3/5 from the field and 1/3 from three. He managed all of this in just 23 minutes of play.

Here's what's especially wild. In just 3 makes, Frank was able to show off his aggression. One of the FG's was a behind the back dribble to a pull-up three pointer that looked like running a drill. Another field goal was an emphatic dunk as Blazers defenders all stayed on their men for fear of the assist. Ntilikina just picked apart the defense in a manner that showed his upside all over. Add to that, he was still his usual brilliant self defensively. Frank blocked two jumpers and picked off a pass via a smart defensive rotation. The only player that Frank had some trouble with was Melo who drew fouls and scored in post up situations.

Bullock: The first two guard off the bench for the Knicks was Reggie Bullock, making his debut. It took all of 15 minutes for Bullock to give signs of the type of player that the Knicks are getting. He knocked down threes, played consistent defense and demanded defensive gravity thanks to his ability to score. Bullock started his Knicks career with 11 points and 2 boards on 4/9 from the field and 3/5 from three. This is a true 3 and D piece that the Knicks sorely need, hopefully he can keep it up and based on his past play; he should be able to.

Dotson: It's probably a bit weird to see limited action like Damyean Dotson did in light of Bullock's return. Dot only saw 13 scattered minutes and never really got himself into the flow of the game. That's not to say he played poorly, Dot moved the ball well but he just didn't get opportunities to score. He settled for 2 assists without a turnover of a field goal attempt. Not bad, but obviously there isn't much to talk about on a quiet night like this.

Knox: I suppose I'm beating a dead horse at this point, but while the production is muted I've been happy with a lot of the things Kevin Knox has done on the floor in recent games. Knox has played with good energy on both ends of the floor and he hasn't forced much of anything. He just can't seem to get the jumper fully unlocked lately and that has muted his scoring numbers. Knox put up 5 points, 7 boards and 1 assist in 17 minutes. He shot just 2/6 overall and 1/4 from three on the night.

The kid has flashed promising rebounding ability in the past. We know he can get hot from three too. Add slow but sure improvements in his defensive play and you're looking at a player that can stay on the floor even when he struggles shooting. He also didn't always settle for three, turning down a decent look to drive and move the ball a couple of times. I really think he's scratching at the surface. If he keeps up this style of play, when the jumper starts to fall he'll string together some impressive games.

Portis: Bobby Portis knocked down multiple 4th quarter threes in cold blooded fashion that locked up the blow out. He played his typical solid effort prior to that but the "sweep the leg" moments in the fourth helped him compile a really nice box score overall. In just 21 minutes, Portis dropped 17 points, 1 assist to 1 TO and 6 boards. He shot 6/11 from the field and 3/4 from three. He's quietly up to 37% from three and has settled into a role where he can break things open if he's got the hot hand but has proven a willing passer when that's not the case. I've gained more and more appreciation for his effort as the season's gone on.

Mitch: From the moment Mitchell Robinson stepped onto the court, it felt like he was going to do whatever the hell he felt like. It started with some offensive boards and putbacks as well as some dunks...it continued with more offensive rebounds and some dunks. Mitch received the lion's share of the love from the Knicks' PG's combining for 18 assists and 0 TO's. When players couldn't feed the young Center, he'd clean up anything they missed. So over 27 minutes, Robinson went 11/11 from the field (tying a record for perfection) and notched 22 points, 8 boards, a block and a steal.

I can't stress just how dominant this felt. During the third quarter, the Knicks felt like they were on the verge of breaking the game open. Melo was going off to keep things close. Mitch came onto the court and quickly helped double team Melo in the post. By the fourth quarter, Melo wasn't scoring anymore and neither were the rest of the Blazers. Mitch only had to come off of the floor for some damned mercy (ironically it didn't work because Portis decided to go full Lil Ze in the hotel on 'em). Robinson was a game breaker. If the ball went up, he'd get a hand on it.

Miller: One of my favorite moments of the whole night came at the post game press conference. Someone tried to bait Mike Miller into throwing David Fizdale under the bus by citing Julius Randle's uptick in production since Miller has taken over. Coach quickly gave all credit to the player and moved on to gushing about just how well his point guards had played. If anything it's this humble approach that has pervaded the Knicks' recent play. The defense has been simplified for the players and the offense encourages ball movement that we simply hadn't been seeing before. There was one play where Frank went for a drive and kick, the ball flew around the perimeter for four passes and every guy could have taken the shot but chose to wait for a better one. This has been the nature of quite a few recent wins, with assist numbers to support the eye test, a lot of egos have been checked at the door.

Another notable moment from last night came as the Knicks held a fairly commanding lead but let up a bit defensively. I don't if think Portland scored on the play if memory serves, but the fact that they got an easy look and that the Knicks had a couple of rushed shots meant that Miller was calling a timeout. The Knicks hadn't lost momentum, they'd been building up a lead in actuality...but that bit of slip up in play was enough for Miller to settle everyone down to refocus. I mark out hard for those kinds of heady moves. We want a 48 minutes a night basketball team, this is how you instill that.

Other bits: I'm not gonna miss a chance to show some love for Carmelo Anthony. I loved his post game press conference too. He was really out there trying to drag the Blazers into a competitive game while Lillard and CJ put up a combined 11/36 from the field. Those dudes put up 28 points on 36 attempts and yet there was Melo drawing a ton of fouls and forcing out the Knicks best defender in the first half (Frank) for a while. I know things got rocky in NYC, but Knicks fans should all be able to appreciate a star player that wanted to be here so bad he fought to stay.

One last thing, it's undeniable that the Knicks have had a soft stretch of schedule. It's also undeniable that they weren't even beating the bad teams for most of this season. They needed a run like this to get some confidence back and some trust in each other built up. Miller had time to really lock in some offensive sets and defensive philosophy too. After Phoenix, there's a truly tough run of opponents peaking through with both buzzsaws in LA starting off the All-NBA mode stretch of basketball. It will be interesting to see if the Knicks can keep composure and at least make these games competitive. It's one thing to beat the bad teams, but being able to compete on every single night is you make a step toward actually being playoff viable. I'm not sure this roster is there yet but I at least trust that it has begun to maximize its collective talent.
Title: Pharoah
Post by: chipstern on January 02, 2020, 01:24:33 PM
Thanks.  Well thought out and articulated as per usual. 

One thing.  Julius Randle is a skilled and willing passer.  Again, not turnover proof, that's for shit sure, but this is a contagious plus on a team enduring wrenching beatdowns, and stuggling to find cohesion and a consistent focus for 48 minutes a night. 

That transition pass he made to Mitchell from the top of the key, facilitated in good part by the omnipresent threat of Randle driving to the rack, was just off the Richter Scale.  Not a perfect pass, a little behind Mitchell, but he just lassoed that little doggie for an Octopus Slamma Jamma that had me screaming. 

It was only one play, but it was a tone setter, and you could discern some of the air going out of the Blazers' balloon, and how much all of Randle's mates, including Morris, were inspired to do likewise.  Ball movement....is a beautiful thing. 

BoD: Point taken as to the Blazers' struggles, and we are for sure entering the NO EXCUSE ZONE out west, with some scary ass matchups and the potential for deflating beat downs.

Having acknowledged all of that, I don't much care what the Blazers' record is.  The Lilliard-McCollum backcourt is one of the scariest in the NBA, and we all have fresh memories of them dick slapping our Knucks to within an inch of human dignity.  Clearly they were fatigued from a rough road trip, but just as clearly our man to man and help defense gave them fucking fits. 

I mean, the Blazers were not only 10-32 from three, but an overall 37-94, for a 39.4% shitting percentage, not unlike how we tied up the Nyets, and those percentages add up to losing hoops. 

I'm I ready to proclaim myself a believer. 

Not hardly, but good signs, positive milestones. 

However, Devin Booker awaits on Friday, speaking of getting DICK-SLAPPED, and you can bet Ayton will have his game face glued on for Mitchell. 

The Knicks remain a work in progress, but under the more flexible, phlegmatic Mike Miller, they are no longer the jerkoffs in regress they were under the more flamboyant, and STUBBORN, Fizdale.  These Knicks feel as though they are coming together, and are capable of competing, if not prevailing, every night.   

PS: Interesting that when the Knicks cashiered Fizz, they also dispatched his #1 son Smart as well.  Miller, a career second banana, appears more sensitive to the contributions and earning potential of his capos than Don David was.   

https://nypost.com/2019/12/07/allan-houston-pushed-hard-for-mike-millers-knicks-chance/ (https://nypost.com/2019/12/07/allan-houston-pushed-hard-for-mike-millers-knicks-chance/)

PPS: Also, I think it is worth crediting the Players ONLY MEETING, as well as the brutal dispatch with which Mills & Perry cashiered Fizdale, given his likability in the coaching fraternity, given that they had sadly concluded that THEIR HIRE, was putting EVERYONE AT RISK, and that the season and our roster was salvageable, but only if Mills & Perry accepted the brutal mockery and backlash that was bound to come down the pike.  And again, credit ALLAN HOUSTON for making the MIKE MILLER case, and for nurturing him in Westchester. 

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DZ6VPmKXcAA00sU.jpg)

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 02, 2020, 01:52:41 PM
Quote from: Pharoah on January 02, 2020, 11:31:25 AM

Mitch: From the moment Mitchell Robinson stepped onto the court, it felt like he was going to do whatever the hell he felt like. It started with some offensive boards and putbacks as well as some dunks...it continued with more offensive rebounds and some dunks. Mitch received the lion's share of the love from the Knicks' PG's combining for 18 assists and 0 TO's. When players couldn't feed the young Center, he'd clean up anything they missed. So over 27 minutes, Robinson went 11/11 from the field (tying a record for perfection) and notched 22 points, 8 boards, a block and a steal.

I can't stress just how dominant this felt. During the third quarter, the Knicks felt like they were on the verge of breaking the game open. Melo was going off to keep things close. Mitch came onto the court and quickly helped double team Melo in the post. By the fourth quarter, Melo wasn't scoring anymore and neither were the rest of the Blazers. Mitch only had to come off of the floor for some damned mercy (ironically it didn't work because Portis decided to go full Lil Ze in the hotel on 'em). Robinson was a game breaker. If the ball went up, he'd get a hand on it.

There was a Damian Lillard drive to the hoop past Elfrid Payton with 5 minutes left in the first quarter. He sees Mitchell waiting there at the cup so he has to hold himself up in the air momentarily before shooting to adjust his shot.  Right after Robinson gets close enough to alter the shot, here comes Elfrid Payton from behind and blocks it, Lillard falls to the floor.

Nice bit of team Defense right there.  Payton get's the credit but if there was a stat for assisted block Mitch would get it.

Quote

One last thing, it's undeniable that the Knicks have had a soft stretch of schedule. It's also undeniable that they weren't even beating the bad teams for most of this season.

Let's put the schedule talk completely to rest.  Fizdale had soft parts of the schedule to exploit like the 6-6 Miller. 

He did not.

Such as this one where he managed a .250 win percentage with an average point differential of negative 9 ppg including several home blowout losses.


Mon, Oct 28   
vs
Chicago  WIN by 7

Wed, Oct 30   
@
Orlando LOSE by 12

Fri, Nov 1   
@
Boston LOSE by 2

Sun, Nov 3   
vs
Sacramento LOSE by 11

Wed, Nov 6   
@
Detroit LOSE by 20

Fri, Nov 8   
@
Dallas WIN by 4

Sun, Nov 10   
vs
Cleveland LOSE by 21

Tue, Nov 12   
@
Chicago LOSE by 18
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 02, 2020, 02:01:58 PM
Yep, Fizz blew the early easy part of the schedule.

Quite a game from Franc.  Just tossing up a million creative lobs to Mitch.  Popping in a 3, flying around the corner for a dunk.  Certainly a glimpse of Franc's upside.  Twas exciting.

That one oop Mitch smashed down late in the 1Q was crazy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 02, 2020, 02:19:22 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 02, 2020, 02:01:58 PM
Yep, Fizz blew the early easy part of the schedule.

Quite a game from Franc.  Just tossing up a million creative lobs to Mitch.  Popping in a 3, flying around the corner for a dunk.  Certainly a glimpse of Franc's upside.  Twas exciting.

That one oop Mitch smashed down late in the 1Q was crazy.

Yup, that was the Randle pass.  Not quite on the mark, but Mitchell sure cleaned it up pretty.  DAMN. 

I eagerly await Mitchell's second jump shot of the season.  Hey, took Giannis a while, too, didn't it? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 02, 2020, 02:38:21 PM
Longish article on KZ sacrificing and blending in and not posting up for Dallas (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/28390018/a-different-kristaps-porzingis-leading-mavericks-alongside-luka-doncic).
Title: Ironic
Post by: chipstern on January 02, 2020, 02:40:29 PM
McDermott?

Gone.

Mudiay?

Gone.

Enes?

Gone. 

The one enduring asset from the Melo Trade on the evening of his return to the Garden, was second round pick Mitchell Robinson. 

PS: Oh, and Julius Randle, as well, if you factor in the cap space we saved in renouncing Mudiay and Kanter, and re-shuffled into our power forward's contract. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 02, 2020, 02:43:54 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 02, 2020, 02:38:21 PM
Longish article on KZ sacrificing and blending in and not posting up for Dallas (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/28390018/a-different-kristaps-porzingis-leading-mavericks-alongside-luka-doncic).

KZ has been playing well, thriving as a gifted roll player, as has Timmy, not being called upon to be the saviors, with Luca clearly the face of the Mavs and their bell cow.  Trae Young is a terrific player, but Dallas clearly came out ahead in their 2 x #1 picks exchange with Atlanta. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 02, 2020, 03:52:59 PM
Clarkson for Exum can’t possibly be the last shoe to drop.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 02, 2020, 03:55:43 PM
Trades are almost always closer to the deadline.

The first real move was POR picking up Melo.

Btw, that was quite a nice showing by Melo.
Assume he wanted to show the Knix Org he wasn't washed up.
fans were behind him as well, which was nice.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 02, 2020, 04:04:57 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 02, 2020, 03:55:43 PM
Trades are almost always closer to the deadline.

The first real move was POR picking up Melo.

Btw, that was quite a nice showing by Melo.
Assume he wanted to show the Knix Org he wasn't washed up.
fans were behind him as well, which was nice.

Of all the egregious things Phil Jackson did (both directly and indirectly through fronts, such as Charlie Rosen) was his treatment of Melo. 

It is one thing to conclude that a man's best days are behind him, and that it is time to move on. 

Quite another to publicly humiliate him, let alone to utterly eviscerate his trade value. 

I lost all respect for Jackson off of that punk move.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 02, 2020, 04:08:04 PM
The equation reflects the NBA CBA rules and works under the Trade Machine calculations.


So?
Title: Re: Ironic
Post by: Kam on January 02, 2020, 04:11:07 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 02, 2020, 02:40:29 PM

PS: Oh, and Julius Randle, as well, if you factor in the cap space we saved in renouncing Mudiay and Kanter, and re-shuffled into our power forward's contract.

Oh NOW you like cap space from dumping Kanter.  Something i still get called out for by tweedle dees and dumm.

the friggin cojones on this one
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 02, 2020, 04:11:59 PM
IMO the Celts don't need to trade away two all-stars and a lottery ticket, and restructure a team that should be able to compete at the highest levels for years, for  KAT and Dieng.


Dont kid yourself - Celts move Tatum in a heartbeat for Towns.

Gordie's been good - they would need to replace him with Gordie light.

The "nahhhh" is from Wolves end but the #1s make it at least something to consider
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on January 02, 2020, 04:34:47 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 02, 2020, 04:08:04 PM
The equation reflects the NBA CBA rules and works under the Trade Machine calculations.


So?

So its was a proposed trade that satisfies NBA cap rules.

As opposed to an earlier proposal that would not meet the NBA cap rules.

Title: Re: Coaching
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 02, 2020, 04:36:36 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 02, 2020, 01:18:21 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 02, 2020, 01:11:45 AM
Carlos, this team is still made up mostly of those same players.

What a difference a coach makes, huh?

Management was right

I wonder if Stephen A wants a do over

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sx-m8Js_oJU
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 02, 2020, 04:37:41 PM
So its was a proposed trade that satisfies NBA cap rules.


Yeah, so what?  Wolves piss on it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on January 02, 2020, 04:43:21 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 02, 2020, 04:11:59 PM
IMO the Celts don't need to trade away two all-stars and a lottery ticket, and restructure a team that should be able to compete at the highest levels for years, for  KAT and Dieng.


Dont kid yourself - Celts move Tatum in a heartbeat for Towns.

Gordie's been good - they would need to replace him with Gordie light.

The "nahhhh" is from Wolves end but the #1s make it at least something to consider

HEH

Changing the debate again.

SSDD

No one ever said the Celts would not trade Tatum for KAT.

However as posted earlier, under NBA cap rules that trade can't be done this year.
 

As already posted I see no need to overpay to reconstruct a very good team.

As currently constructed the Celts are #2 in the East and can play with anyone and with some luck could go very deep into the post-season.

Real deep

The TW are well out of the play-offs as currently constructed and might hit the lottery.

The proposed trade might have been helpful to both teams.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on January 02, 2020, 04:44:26 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 02, 2020, 04:37:41 PM
So its was a proposed trade that satisfies NBA cap rules.


Yeah, so what?  Wolves piss on it.

So, I pissed on it first.

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 02, 2020, 04:47:32 PM
As already posted I see no need to overpay to reconstruct a very good team.


The idea is to win a title

ONE in 34 years has to sting a bit
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on January 02, 2020, 04:49:26 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 02, 2020, 04:47:32 PM
As already posted I see no need to overpay to reconstruct a very good team.


The idea is to win a title

I think the Celts as constructed are positioned to win a title this year.

If they stay healthy, they might fall short, but no one will want them in a 7-game series.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 02, 2020, 04:56:21 PM
I like the Wolves for next year
Title: Re: Ironic
Post by: chipstern on January 02, 2020, 05:00:47 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 02, 2020, 04:11:07 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 02, 2020, 02:40:29 PM

PS: Oh, and Julius Randle, as well, if you factor in the cap space we saved in renouncing Mudiay and Kanter, and re-shuffled into our power forward's contract.

Oh NOW you like cap space from dumping Kanter.  Something i still get called out for by tweedle dees and dumm.

the friggin cojones on this one

Just delineating how it all broke down.

I believe I was always on board as a Kanter booster.  I was also a fan of Mudiay. 

When Coach Fizdale and GM Kam renounced him and Mudiay, it became, a fait accompli, did it not? 

And Kam citing ANYONE else on this forum for cajones is a real knee slapper. 

(https://covers.openlibrary.org/b/id/5549148-M.jpg)

We now return to Kam's regularly scheduled ClodCast, brought to you by the makers of Sphincter Premium, Home Of Non-Aromatic Feces. 

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcSTNd-dS3v1P6WrkYZtrg8kIj5wdIX3I4SMN80bNNfDDfIxZil7)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 02, 2020, 05:11:08 PM
I think the Celts as constructed are positioned to win a title this year.


Better chance their summer target gets his
Title: Fess up
Post by: Kam on January 02, 2020, 05:13:00 PM
Do you want Kanter back on this team with his delusions of all-star grandeur? 

Eat your crow.
Title: Lesterdawg on the weekend
Post by: Kam on January 02, 2020, 05:13:35 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ENS-FRjXYAIj9bz.jpg:large)
Title: Re: Fess up
Post by: chipstern on January 02, 2020, 05:14:24 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 02, 2020, 05:13:00 PM
Do you want Kanter back on this team with his delusions of all-star grandeur? 

Eat your crow.

You are a whiny little dweeb, are you not? 

Sound and fury signifying nothing. 

Hey, Lesterdawg, y'all want a piece of this screechy little byatch? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on January 02, 2020, 05:24:37 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 02, 2020, 05:11:08 PM
I think the Celts as constructed are positioned to win a title this year.


Better chance their summer target gets his

AD/Lakers?

Maybe.

If LBJ is not too tired by mid-May getting through the West and the other LA team.

Not too worried about the Celts, they  have a lot of young talent, they'll compete and they're fun to watch.

They play great hoops most nights.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 02, 2020, 05:32:48 PM
Not too worried about the Celts, they  have a lot of young talent, they'll compete and they're fun to watch.

They play great hoops most night

TI-TLE

Celts still seek the big splash.  Even had they properly drafted Ball, a trade/big signing of a star(see Kyrie) needed to occur.  That's the NBA.
Title: Re: Fess up
Post by: Kam on January 02, 2020, 05:40:12 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 02, 2020, 05:14:24 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 02, 2020, 05:13:00 PM
Do you want Kanter back on this team with his delusions of all-star grandeur? 

Eat your crow.

You are a whiny little dweeb, are you not? 

Sound and fury signifying nothing. 

Hey, Lesterdawg, y'all want a piece of this screechy little byatch?

You're better than resorting to churlish insults. 
Kanter was a hired merc. Not a longterm guy.
But you never could see that. 
And yet you laud the use of cap space to UPGRADE to Randle.
So keep the insults coming because your substance is lacking.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on January 02, 2020, 05:51:25 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 02, 2020, 05:32:48 PM
Not too worried about the Celts, they  have a lot of young talent, they'll compete and they're fun to watch.

They play great hoops most night

TI-TLE

Celts still seek the big splash.  Even had they properly drafted Ball, a trade/big signing of a star(see Kyrie) needed to occur.  That's the NBA.

heh

kid you've doubled-driibbled poor Lonzo too many times.

You and the Lakers got suckered by the hype.

And Ainge got the guy and the pick he wanted.

and the 76ers after giving up a #1 were either half-empty


or

wait for it

not yet

now

half Fultz


heh

I expect Ainge will make a move, and probably for an insurance big, but it might not be an AD sized splash.

I do not think this team needs it.

I understand you don't see it the same way.

ZERO titles is 46 years fogs your vision.
Title: Fess Parker
Post by: chipstern on January 02, 2020, 06:04:17 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 02, 2020, 05:40:12 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 02, 2020, 05:14:24 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 02, 2020, 05:13:00 PM
Do you want Kanter back on this team with his delusions of all-star grandeur? 

Eat your crow.

You are a whiny little dweeb, are you not? 

Sound and fury signifying nothing. 

Hey, Lesterdawg, y'all want a piece of this screechy little byatch?

You're better than resorting to churlish insults. 
Kanter was a hired merc. Not a longterm guy.
But you never could see that. 
And yet you laud the use of cap space to UPGRADE to Randle.
So keep the insults coming because your substance is lacking.

SIGH

One more time...

I did not LAUD the use of cap space to sign Randle. 

I NOTED the use of cap space to sign Randle, in referencing the final accounting on our return for trading Carmelo Anthony. 

Your 24/7 hard-on for Enes Kanter is such, I am shocked that you can navigate deployment of a zipper. 

One more time for the record.  See if you can follow the supple logic of this thought process. 

Carmelo Anthony > Enes Kanter > Doug McDermott > Chicago Bulls #2 draft pick

Doug McDermott > Emmanuel Mudiay

FINAL ACCOUNTING

Enes Kanter + Emmanuel Mudiay = Julius Randle

#2 Draft Pick = Mitchell Robinson

As DULY FUCKING NOTED....

Carmelo Anthony returns to the Garden to standing ovations.

Wherein, he faced off against the ultimate asset-return his trade yielded the Knicks + Mitchell Robinson & Julius Randle. 

As for invitation that I imbibe crow sashimi, well, that is YOUR OBSESSION. 

One last time. 

I liked Kanter's contribution, and Mudiay's as well. 

The Knicks [not Chip] decided to move on from both and their combined salaries begat Julius Randle. 

Not unlike how the Knicks [not Chip] decided to move on from the combined salaries of Kristaps Porzingis, Timmy Hardaway and Courtney Lee, which begat Bobby Portis, Marcus Morris, Taj Gibson, Elfrid Payton, Reggie Bullock and Wayne Ellington. 

During free agency, I was on record as being interested in either Julius Randle or Bobby Portis.  Was surprised we ended up with both.  Let alone Morris AND Gibson. 

David Fizdale did to Enes Kantner, what Phil Jackson did to Carmelo Anthony--devalued and denigrated them .  I DID NOT APPROVE OF EITHER SCENARIO. 

Fess Up?

I have nothing to FESS UP TO. 

Fess Parker?

(https://www.cawineclub.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Davy-Crockett-Image.jpg)

King Of The Wild Frontier. 

Is it ironic that Kanter and Mudiay summed out to Julius Randle? 

It most certainly is. 

Your invitation to consume crow is duly rejected, with extreme prejudice. 

You LOATHE Enes Kanter. 

Duly noted, for the umpteenth time. 

GET OVER IT. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 02, 2020, 06:23:25 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on January 02, 2020, 05:51:25 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 02, 2020, 05:32:48 PM
Not too worried about the Celts, they  have a lot of young talent, they'll compete and they're fun to watch.

They play great hoops most night

TI-TLE

Celts still seek the big splash.  Even had they properly drafted Ball, a trade/big signing of a star(see Kyrie) needed to occur.  That's the NBA.

heh

kid you've doubled-driibbled poor Lonzo too many times.

You and the Lakers got suckered by the hype.

And Ainge got the guy and the pick he wanted.

and the 76ers after giving up a #1 were either half-empty


or

wait for it

not yet

now

half Fultz


heh

I expect Ainge will make a move, and probably for an insurance big, but it might not be an AD sized splash.

I do not think this team needs it.

I understand you don't see it the same way.

ZERO titles is 46 years fogs your vision.

Fultz appears to be coming around after a rough journey.  Happy for the kid. 

He and Ball seem to be at roughly the same point in their evolution. 

Not unlike Frank Ntilikina [yes, Kiid, I can hear you snickering...have at it...takes a while for many point guard puppies to find their sea legs]

Tatum was a great pick, and I admired Ainge's thinking thereof. 

Would he have been better off with Fultz or Ball than Tatum? 

That is debatable.  HIGHLY DEBATABLE. 

Ainge converted assets and draft picks into Kyrie Irving. 

And when KI bolted, he converted that cap space into Kemba Walker, a match made in heaven. 

Philly ended up offloading Fultz to Orlando. 

LA ended up offloading Ball to New Orleans. 

They look to be evolving nicely in new environs. 

Tatum? 

A fucking stud muffin. 

When we selected Kevin Knox, there were comparisons to Tatum.

We should only be so lucky.  Kevin is coming along in his sophomore season, but he has a long way to go vis a vis the commanding all-around game Tatum is strutting in his third season. 

Kiid is on record as believing we should have selected/traded down to pick Miles Bridge and/or Donte DiVincenzo.  Many Knicks fans were enraged when we did not select Michael Porter, who fell to Denver at #14. 

And Kam continues to re-litigate Enes Kanter, who at a 4.7 million/5.0 million has been a good value/fit as a role player for the Celtics.   

Good luck to your Celtics, Bank.  Kemba said that he considered the Knicks, but, hey, at this point in his career, fit-wise and money-wise, the Celtics were sure a no-brainer. 

ONWARDS. 
Title: Re: Me 3
Post by: FWK00 on January 02, 2020, 06:33:18 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on January 01, 2020, 10:58:54 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 01, 2020, 10:46:56 PM

So good we got a real coach. This game was FUN. Haven't felt so good about the Knicks for a long time.


Sure was. Good thing I got over Z'Bo's passing in time to bounce back and watch....

Nice start to 2020 for Knick fans.

*** easy to believe Damian and perhaps a few other Trailblazers may have been suffering from the aftermath of spending New Year's Eve in the Big Apple, but whatever, we'll still take it.

**** hard to believe, 1,000 posts and a year-and-a-half later, a brand new decade begins with Kam still trying to crawl out of Enes' Anus.

Thank Frazier, you're back!

For a nanosecond I thought you had flat lined out of here.
Title: Re: Me 3
Post by: chipstern on January 02, 2020, 06:45:23 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on January 02, 2020, 06:33:18 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on January 01, 2020, 10:58:54 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 01, 2020, 10:46:56 PM

So good we got a real coach. This game was FUN. Haven't felt so good about the Knicks for a long time.


Sure was. Good thing I got over Z'Bo's passing in time to bounce back and watch....

Nice start to 2020 for Knick fans.

*** easy to believe Damian and perhaps a few other Trailblazers may have been suffering from the aftermath of spending New Year's Eve in the Big Apple, but whatever, we'll still take it.

**** hard to believe, 1,000 posts and a year-and-a-half later, a brand new decade begins with Kam still trying to crawl out of Enes' Anus.

Thank Frazier, you're back!

For a nanosecond I thought you had flat lined out of here.

(https://media.tenor.com/images/7ebdf9fdb65dca02359a82ab399a0a51/tenor.gif)

Knicks fans are subject to intermittent spasms. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on January 02, 2020, 06:45:35 PM
Quote
Tatum was a great pick, and I admired Ainge's thinking thereof.

Would he have been better off with Fultz or Ball than Tatum?

That is debatable.  HIGHLY DEBATABLE.

Chip

We on Elba can debate anything. And we do.

But that doesn't really mean all opinions debated should be afforded the same weight.

Does anyone here other than kid not believe the Celts picked the 76ers pocket with the Fultz/Tatum and a lottery pick trade?

And only LaVar, Magic and kid bought the Lonzo hype.

I have not uttered a single negative word about Fultz or Ball, nor wish then any ill-will, but these are the facts.

Lonzo missed a considerable # of games in his rookie year, and really never developed in LA, Fultz barely played his first 2 years, trying to straighten out his head, shoulder, and jump shot, while Tatum seems to be on track to becoming an all-star. Plus the lottery pick.

So in this regard, 3 years post '17 draft, Ainge got his cake and ate it as well.

Sure anything could happen in the future but to continue this debate at this point, is pretty much pure trolling or evidence of insanity.

And

Happy New Year

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 02, 2020, 07:15:51 PM
I do not think this team needs it.


To win 50-55 games?  Probably not

Celts attempt a huge move this summer
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 02, 2020, 07:19:46 PM
Should Irving leave, and the team’s bid for an Anthony Davis trade fall through, then short of moving ahead with what’s left, Danny Ainge’s creativity will be tested like never before. Though he wouldn’t share specifics, Grousbeck has admittedly heard some fairly exotic scenarios being discussed. “There’s definitely scenarios being spun inside the basketball office,” he said. “I’m there every day listening to them, that involve a number of players. I’ve heard a lot of scenarios. We’ll just see what happens.”


As I said....

Ainge knows BIG SPLASH is way to go

May or may not involve Tatum or Brown
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 02, 2020, 07:21:33 PM
And only LaVar, Magic and kid bought the Lonzo hype.


I think Lonzo is thought of highly by NBA execs
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on January 02, 2020, 07:36:48 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 02, 2020, 07:15:51 PM
I do not think this team needs it.


To win 50-55 games?  Probably not

Celts attempt a huge move this summer

HOT TAKE!

btw, Celts playing at about a 60-win pace
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on January 02, 2020, 07:41:52 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 02, 2020, 07:19:46 PM
Should Irving leave, and the team’s bid for an Anthony Davis trade fall through, then short of moving ahead with what’s left, Danny Ainge’s creativity will be tested like never before. Though he wouldn’t share specifics, Grousbeck has admittedly heard some fairly exotic scenarios being discussed. “There’s definitely scenarios being spun inside the basketball office,” he said. “I’m there every day listening to them, that involve a number of players. I’ve heard a lot of scenarios. We’ll just see what happens.”


As I said....

Ainge knows BIG SPLASH is way to go

May or may not involve Tatum or Brown

Your quote was before the Cs got Kemba to repalce KI.

Its irrelevant as it regards their future.

Big splash with or without Tatum or Brown?


HOT TAKE!!!


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on January 02, 2020, 07:44:46 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 02, 2020, 07:21:33 PM
And only LaVar, Magic and kid bought the Lonzo hype.


I think Lonzo is thought of highly by NBA execs

Here's one for you kid

and you can do it with 2020 hindsight

Celts just trade #1 to 76ers for the #3 and a future pick

76ers pick Fultz with the #1

Lakers on the clock-who do you pick?

Title: Re: Me 3
Post by: lesterluv on January 02, 2020, 08:39:02 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on January 02, 2020, 06:33:18 PM

Thank Frazier, you're back!

For a nanosecond I thought you had flat lined out of here.

I tried, failed miserably, didn't make 48 hours.  All for the best, haven't figured out what the hell to replace Knicks with anyway and would've missed a heck of a game.

*** among many other things, sure was liking that Buh-lock debut, he really brought something we needed.

Quote from: chipstern on January 02, 2020, 05:14:24 PM

Hey, Lesterdawg, y'all want a piece of this screechy little byatch?

LOL, if that boy can't get off the Kant and wants to keep soiling himself in public on a thrice daily basis 'til 2030, well, GODSPEED

*** I do think he should stop by the doc or a neighborhood urgent care facility 'cause when it comes out of the ass N mouth at the same time like that it's usually amebic dysentery or cholera at the very least.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 02, 2020, 08:50:54 PM
Your quote was before the Cs got Kemba to repalce KI.


right

no matter
Title: From Enes Kanter To Immanuel Kant
Post by: chipstern on January 02, 2020, 08:54:33 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on January 02, 2020, 08:39:02 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on January 02, 2020, 06:33:18 PM

Thank Frazier, you're back!

For a nanosecond I thought you had flat lined out of here.

I tried, failed miserably, didn't make 48 hours.  All for the best, haven't figured out what the hell to replace Knicks with anyway and would've missed a heck of a game.

*** among many other things, sure was liking that Buh-lock debut, he really brought something we needed.

Quote from: chipstern on January 02, 2020, 05:14:24 PM

Hey, Lesterdawg, y'all want a piece of this screechy little byatch?

LOL, if that boy can't get off the Kant and wants to keep soiling himself in public on a thrice daily basis 'til 2030, well, GODSPEED

*** I do think he should stop by the doc or a neighborhood urgent care facility 'cause when it comes out of the ass N mouth at the same time like that it's usually amebic dysentery or cholera at the very least.

Perhaps he could transition from Kanter to Kant. 

Two less letters. 

More ennobling....

Immanuel Kant [April 22, 1724 – February 12, 1804) was an influential Prussian German philosopher in the Age of Enlightenment.

In his doctrine of transcendental idealism, he argued that space, time, and causation are mere sensibilities; "things-in-themselves" exist, but their nature is unknowable.

In his view, the mind shapes and structures experience, with all human experience sharing certain structural features. He drew a parallel to the Copernican revolution in his proposition that worldly objects can be intuited a priori ('beforehand'), and that intuition is therefore independent from objective reality.

Kant believed that reason is the source of morality, and that aesthetics arise from a faculty of disinterested judgment. Kant's views continue to have a major influence on contemporary philosophy, especially the fields of epistemology, ethics, political theory, and post-modern aesthetics.

This should be right up Kam's alley, and help relieve the stress of his Kantereque obsessions. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on January 02, 2020, 09:23:25 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 02, 2020, 08:50:54 PM
Your quote was before the Cs got Kemba to repalce KI.


right

no matter

It rendered the quote irrelevant at best and intentionally misleading at worst.

kid-you were caught and called in another bullshit bluff and you had nothing.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on January 02, 2020, 09:30:08 PM
Speaking of Kant

A 20th century poet philosopher once noted,

"You Kant always get what you want

But if you try sometimes well you might find

You get what you need"
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 02, 2020, 09:38:13 PM
Lottery picks 2017 per 36 minutes


Fultz
15, 6 and 5

Ball
12, 7 and 7

Tatum
18, 7 and 2

Jo Jackson
18, 6 and 3

Fox
17, 7 and 4

Isaac
13, 8 and 2

Markaanen
19, 9 and 2

Ntlikina
10, 5 and 4

Smith Jr
13, 5 and 3

Z Collins
12, 8 and 2

Monk
18, 4 and 4

Kennard
15, 4 and 3

Mitchell
24, 4 and 4

Adebayo
14, 11 and 4

Ju Jackson
12, 5 and 2

Patton
10, 9 and 4 (6 games)

Title: Re: Me 3 = PP 3
Post by: carlos123 on January 02, 2020, 10:37:11 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on January 02, 2020, 08:39:02 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on January 02, 2020, 06:33:18 PM

Thank Frazier, you're back!

For a nanosecond I thought you had flat lined out of here.

I tried, failed miserably, didn't make 48 hours.  All for the best, haven't figured out what the hell to replace Knicks with anyway and would've missed a heck of a game.

*** among many other things, sure was liking that Buh-lock debut, he really brought something we needed.

Quote from: chipstern on January 02, 2020, 05:14:24 PM

Hey, Lesterdawg, y'all want a piece of this screechy little byatch?

LOL, if that boy can't get off the Kant and wants to keep soiling himself in public on a thrice daily basis 'til 2030, well, GODSPEED

*** I do think he should stop by the doc or a neighborhood urgent care facility 'cause when it comes out of the ass N mouth at the same time like that it's usually amebic dysentery or cholera at the very least.

Les, I promised I'd do something about your new status as Positive Pussy #3 ...

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/mZLa6NX8puQjd_ip1Rt8sk3n_Uv8nAaM2rKoOSPmzkzWTwt018ulpYfNU29ArvS-zal4fIF4TZmBPMuSk573IfDC32B8eqKde43E_u98RJbQZIAYAq-yfRJ6KQrf56aq5NEJmzGcPcpa7RHtYtQPGKAXrElXFR9GGbEs3qplJfTaTchFfXuiZr8jTEHwSNSk_L3zPVe3zulUwljTCUlL2JS_DqRwZ2i2z1ig4onFqIx6YpKZTV61hshcgT3vuZTQD4rrEXq9-Vkg2KUyiIVIlUpzVzlxuprw64MJKd9i_TEQPuZq6T7YlOjkdGJyFDBeGQRr7k42N8ofsahCtzTJKI_HIawcQuOgBfLOkxG1DAkP1-MG3-3lVYcYc2tCbDorUE5mVFJcpeCd9pXsv_HQx14Qy1jLKpMpG7y5NC4-NyiTcy35cxpRGu0R3PvqeQFVmMo3fwuQj3rDlRvf2qay1NhOK-DgPfGYovzN1PXY2pJTdCugFutyHID9UKJLHTyLoiEqtrwwzVPGFSYHylzVzX8ZBOe3fbwAH1s6JHE1h2z8nxGcv-IWgmWOF1aa47nwriX0NGMSRwAt51oyBOWlg3qQZgMvIZWruGULmJ5Uh6Vjvzr3Q_wsQiUTuZiyZNBuGpVXfgH0sVwcWxl48K1S36ZSOC9NrkzYFcwNP8VujLO4mo7DeUIiQtY=w720-h917-no)

We couldn't really lose your doggie face, but u also a pussy now.
Title: Tweedledee or Tweedledum?
Post by: carlos123 on January 02, 2020, 10:45:36 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on January 02, 2020, 08:39:02 PM

Quote from: chipstern on January 02, 2020, 05:14:24 PM

Hey, Lesterdawg, y'all want a piece of this screechy little byatch?

LOL, if that boy can't get off the Kant and wants to keep soiling himself in public on a thrice daily basis 'til 2030, well, GODSPEED

*** I do think he should stop by the doc or a neighborhood urgent care facility 'cause when it comes out of the ass N mouth at the same time like that it's usually amebic dysentery or cholera at the very least.

Enes said it best.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Xg4q7wBZND-5uQ5Lc3EJxlWlg3WS0b_ltcNF6i5MCZYwBsiYDVFF4mvrLbXOOPttLVyjlmT6okwGghchV2mACnHscSVx9zc_QfRznFDmWItDe3tNOuWdaIZatBStJvjtbcC6Vl6WZJWsigGuS9zM6nMrPWVu73rlL3Syqiu6GmmRq-5nevs04b20bL2NqhFqVT94yqF8LIHAuhMQGl-2enkUZ-vEd5jHUBCEIAiJA9E-f1P6Tl39gD8ugBylqWOKPk44r70JxdnrvKeQOupvIOF9sahzdhWShQy2fxz30mVOUXLk34GLda5Eu8TtgjpxQ7vnicJXnqYYeEKxoPuPTLF-TJPlb6RDjemgtn5yI6Fyny0OiSZY6eBV2rimBSYbtoaU-CBsopJ__Dvtiw7OQSgr9YQ2CuisslnECVfpF31ZdVcqnIQYflysjcbi5NudeNs3EzHp9xdcHTuJjTLASZ-bsQh9X-mZph4MyWTu64KZIjT1zvoMdPXrz8pVvveJ2HpwZkQY6ZvT9DOYTeATcMzVxp5Ss0Ez4pc0jqM7Dqu7EK7OVuDTGqV0W1dkx1LpVDZtTZ0LXaRMVHOKLFvLjUjcPojbF0FIirRVy1oyxVJh7fvwUcptstECqBbZt9N-x-XRyPk34FkfRrw7OlGZASZOM2CQoVAll-mciY1a0nKrbaYsPIHwoXQ=w750-h500-no)

Les, u rather be Tweedledee or Tweedledum? I mean, we have to tell Kam(s)ter which is which.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on January 02, 2020, 10:53:09 PM
Quote
Lottery picks 2017 per 36 minutes


lies, damn lies and kid's disingenuous posts

per 36 in this case is pretty much bullshit

as has already been posted

Ball missed a lot of games in his rookie year

Fultz was MIA for various reasons his first two years.

Tatum a pretty consistent starter

So far in their first 3 years as pros 

Tatum has played about 6000 minutes

Lonzo has played about  3900 minutes

Fultz has played about 1500 minutes

You've been on the clock for hours and all you can post is bullshit misleading stats.

Still your pick kid

LMAO
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 03, 2020, 12:20:39 AM
Hindsight has Donavan and Bam going before Fultz, Ball, and Tatum.
Title: Michael Porter
Post by: chipstern on January 03, 2020, 02:24:16 AM
Mitch had a breakout game?

Michael Porter had a breakout game.

Mitch was 11-11?

Michael Porter was 11-12, 2-3 from trey for 25 points with 5 boards in 23 minutes as the Nuggets bested the Pacers.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 03, 2020, 03:12:30 AM
I think Knox had 25 and 15 in a game last year.

Lets see who keeps what up.

So far though, Porter is looking like he’ll be pretty good.
Title: -7 under Miller
Post by: Kam on January 03, 2020, 09:54:31 AM
Knicks have scored just 7 fewer points TOTAL over the last 12 games than their opponents.

Knicks AVERAGED a -7 differential EVERY GAME under Fizdale this season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on January 03, 2020, 10:56:15 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 03, 2020, 12:20:39 AM
Hindsight has Donavan and Bam going before Fultz, Ball, and Tatum.

An entirely fair and reasonable statement.

kid you're still on the clock.

And you've been on the clock almost as long as Fultz has been on the court in his professional career.

LMAO
Title: Dawg Responds To Repeated Provocations
Post by: chipstern on January 03, 2020, 12:55:49 PM
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b5/77/0b/b5770bc2f257df428f09e27b4bd02d3e.gif)

(https://media2.giphy.com/media/3ohs7TnCr7Kcd0zKoM/giphy.gif)

(https://i0.wp.com/trent.photo/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/20161214-kanter-3.gif?fit=482%2C573&ssl=1)

Title: Stop it!
Post by: carlos123 on January 03, 2020, 01:15:32 PM
Stop it Chip! You gonna give poor Kamster a heart attack, he’s already seeing Enes in his dreams, that when he can sleep. Mostly he can’t  😳
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 03, 2020, 01:41:41 PM
You're so stoopid to be obsessed with a guy who your own team shit-canned. Go root for the Caeltics.

Knicks were never deluded enough to think, "hey maybe let's bring Enes back"

But you were.  You were loud wrong. 

And now you double-down on your dubious distinction.  Damn. That's dumb.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 03, 2020, 02:07:46 PM
Kanter will do fine as the Turkish Kendrick Perkins. He was part of the methadone that got us off the hard junk of Melo.

It wasn’t fun. It wasn’t pretty. It did the job.

The center from that era I miss is Kornet.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 03, 2020, 02:18:40 PM
lol, lol, lol, that boy really is gonna shit himself thrice daily through the entire decade 'til that damn Turkish kebab pops out! To the doc, to the doc son...
Title: Kamster The Hamster
Post by: chipstern on January 03, 2020, 02:31:10 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 03, 2020, 01:41:41 PM
You're so stoopid to be obsessed with a guy who your own team shit-canned. Go root for the Caeltics.

Knicks were never deluded enough to think, "hey maybe let's bring Enes back"

But you were.  You were loud wrong. 

And now you double-down on your dubious distinction.  Damn. That's dumb.

From the Ottoman Empire...to the Autobahn Dumpster Fire. 

(https://media.giphy.com/media/NU8tcjnPaODTy/giphy.gif)

Ladies and gentlemen, Kamster The Hamster, Elba's own, JOHNNY ONE NOTE.   

Currently leading all voters on the All-Star ballot for Douche Bag Of The Year. 

(https://media1.giphy.com/media/pEhpnpkPlyP3q/source.gif)

"Somebody help me...I literally KANTER STOP."
Title: Own it.
Post by: Kam on January 03, 2020, 02:53:49 PM
I'm not the one who posts Kanter statlines.  He's your boy.  This is your account.  No longer a Knick. I never bring him up.
Title: Kamster the Hamster owns it
Post by: carlos123 on January 03, 2020, 03:08:47 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 03, 2020, 02:53:49 PM
I'm not the one who posts Kanter statlines.  He's your boy.  This is your account.  No longer a Knick. I never bring him up.

We just like to see you enraged.

Once more, Enes loves u too 😻 ❤️

(https://i0.wp.com/trent.photo/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/20161214-kanter-3.gif?fit=482%2C573&ssl=1)
Thanks Chip. This one is Kamster’s favorite.
Title: Re: Dawg Responds To Repeated Provocations
Post by: bankshot1 on January 03, 2020, 04:24:02 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 03, 2020, 12:55:49 PM
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b5/77/0b/b5770bc2f257df428f09e27b4bd02d3e.gif)

Laurel n Hardy ran the pi ano roll down the stairs flawlessly.

Brilliant stuff

 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 03, 2020, 05:11:04 PM
Franc's just a hair under 34% on 3's.
So getting close to league average.
Progress.
Better than the sub 30% Payton and Jr. Smith clank up.
Franc also an 85% FT shooter this year, not that he really gets to the line at all.

Otoh Franc, Knox, RJB and Payton all shooting 38% FG for the year.  Jr. Smith (32%) well below even that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 03, 2020, 05:22:52 PM
http://www.theringer.com/nba/2020/1/3/21048032/new-york-knicks-mike-miller-mitchell-robinson-julius-randle (http://www.theringer.com/nba/2020/1/3/21048032/new-york-knicks-mike-miller-mitchell-robinson-julius-randle)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 03, 2020, 05:37:07 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 03, 2020, 05:22:52 PM
http://www.theringer.com/nba/2020/1/3/21048032/new-york-knicks-mike-miller-mitchell-robinson-julius-randle (http://www.theringer.com/nba/2020/1/3/21048032/new-york-knicks-mike-miller-mitchell-robinson-julius-randle)

Thanks for the link. 

Good breakdown. 
Title: The Purple Schmo Of Cairo
Post by: chipstern on January 03, 2020, 05:39:12 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 03, 2020, 02:53:49 PM
I'm not the one who posts Kanter statlines.  He's your boy.  This is your account.  No longer a Knick. I never bring him up.

(https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1565865580l/47762417.jpg)

Cough. 

(https://media0.giphy.com/media/ngTSqhVKh57B6/giphy.gif)



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 03, 2020, 05:49:23 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 03, 2020, 05:11:04 PM
Franc's just a hair under 34% on 3's.
So getting close to league average.
Progress.
Better than the sub 30% Payton and Jr. Smith clank up.
Franc also an 85% FT shooter this year, not that he really gets to the line at all.

Otoh Franc, Knox, RJB and Payton all shooting 38% FG for the year.  Jr. Smith (32%) well below even that.

Both Frank and Payton sport 2.6 and 2.3 assists to turnovers respectively with both recording more steals than turnovers.

Miller’s approach seems to be do as few things as you can actually do well, strategize within your toolbox, and slowly add by building on what’s in your arsenal while working hard and staying connected the whole time.

I still like my Chicago trade that got us Kornet & Dunn for some spare guards.   
Title: Chip
Post by: Kam on January 03, 2020, 07:57:38 PM
You've lost something on your fastball.  The chin music, weakened over time, has lost all bite.  May i suggest you eat more veggies?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 03, 2020, 09:04:07 PM
Another shit show for Tatum tonight

Kanter 12 and 9 in 17 minutes
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on January 03, 2020, 09:37:38 PM
poor sad kid his fragile ego won't let him entertain the thought he was wrong about  Tatum

so he obsesses

so sad

Celts hang on against Hawks

Celts can't hit their 3s,  Hawks did to keep it close

13 and 9 boards for Tatum

14 and 11 for the Turkish Terror

awinzawin
Title: Re: Chip's fastball
Post by: carlos123 on January 03, 2020, 09:52:46 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 03, 2020, 07:57:38 PM
You've lost something on your fastball.  The chin music, weakened over time, has lost all bite.  May i suggest you eat more veggies?

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/gPvVAGtiwqKkaKkcZYm0NufpjzDCnvb1VgNdWKhiJzuzvz80hOqKV7qZ4G9-HY9B7pQcni2MkbcIlT7mBcINiNYtzX7UUcVszRpJiH2_VRUJ8P99c3NUFhI89-PxNg4C1ljq97G3HOGvK-8qDEJGxyzeUOyR8HoSXbvhCXRZ5c0K7dumOMlcmce9hMgGvY5dw-D40HbrM0jC1yyrkFAiZYk16_v-qTfGMYpoyYbfOfgMrHYsOCBlYt-lTG5J9ylxUzW4-58XZgAaCuVeb59P3pNeMINjTdEVTVqgSreXGiJbEJC92APX1aAIzSuYtIuYtDkMAKxAdeMjYzv4idq-XRo8SXqGRpWVEHv46wPHgbPs_0UL1Ah1IlovppXvU7uv9UHGpBVoWhNLrFnzdoPObmmt65_1NTQIg8cyFzFKgXvo7qiaW0q6Otn5PBk4KRt50wGSwiV2N-R7Z-uy7smz-YL7SjqOjD6R2BcZquiDXnlzCHfMO-dhY5BYE3zI-utp0tIrCQHd4R_vvpPvJAOmXwY_aL5MIFsQwADRpZThM7jOZcocoyiOW6CjREDC9pZmIM-bsT6S7fdfSG6ixTDgqUY3dW4ZmS4fPfiyp94UwSFEjp55gkbRNt0JbLnFGtMxBqnZu-3boir_L3DMMli5ERn9KCuZwpokHH0VsEu05zDwhNSIs8HL9eFUw01w0Si_gGt4_5uGA1OT1v2AulCOdBnAalNPldaRhTk2GCnshXdfM4aG=w749-h621-no)

Looks like a pretty good fastball to me.
Title: Leave the Kamster alone!
Post by: carlos123 on January 03, 2020, 09:58:50 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on January 03, 2020, 09:37:38 PM
poor sad kid his fragile ego won't let him entertain the thought he was wrong about  Tatum

so he obsesses

so sad

Celts hang on against Hawks

Celts can't hit their 3s,  Hawks did to keep it close

13 and 9 boards for Tatum

14 and 11 for the Turkish Terror

awinzawin

and 2 blocks.

Another sleepless night for the Kamster. Leave him alone already!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 03, 2020, 10:01:23 PM
Sounds like Bank doesn't actually watch the Celtic games.

heh
Title: OTOH
Post by: carlos123 on January 03, 2020, 10:04:19 PM
STARTERS      MIN   FG    3PT   FT   OREB   DREB   REB   AST   STL   BLK   TO   PF   +/-   PTS
C. AnthonyPF   31   7-9   1-1   1-2      1         5        6       2      2       0      2     3   +21   16

No offense Les. You still my favorite doggie, and Positive Pussy #3

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/S3ddmAhNq-mw5BtqQ7vTzIj9ZZK9s5YW1n8bEznUN0Gp7wpF-TUixBv-XGOi1Zyny8JTYgDUsjZZ2BICL9qhT7BWXuUGJAFTklMptOmVM8fUChPe6smCoJZj5JY2GFhtHzosfEkVro3osL-IxEEgcmMl2rbj0L6AwKNdh54BzUAqvNhRTnRUrwip7teMAtJNH7Z4XUXXDN2R5ME_Zcyi8GR3E-mf5HazT68W5bhH6F7av8ITYL-myRCivgFKk28s8CkDwX_MutGDFl_fjg0Tvul1jeEICuCHZf5L53GQr4tjXmubVnLbaa5XqpKJPjjKap_HBlUsC7WJZauzHd-70I6fmvX4WfBuWa3OOhiBMHe_MiKZNxMdP451tLkLNKKlCuxwI66fD3RoEJ9Rjw4hXzhyB8wqYYVgs8Df4ASF4w-GmqG8s6I3f-sEYkNJbthS5tBd_UIWxfEZaiham7jR-Gtt4afNOiO1XfT2uRICf4iO6HLDVNuNuL6T-WSai-2eYJuITuz75m0wU-aR1IpCoQxHI8QftKVpjs_pOZUwlE-PGZ-9ta9jELF-VH1U5IB0m-S4Ure-MsvAI5AC70q-dsqRGfa1PEWwdWS4SjYcgVTKm2jtwkAM99hNSZwYq8wAEG9uhOpc24lwQmeksKydZKtgov3OdkSbkjJXwGux-p_xosSpJl1b9hf8IMCIVtYqeq9uqtxf6nDno33FaQJw2mkiaLXpv-PgS2xurOAeza-CjFT5=w720-h917-no)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on January 03, 2020, 10:07:38 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 03, 2020, 10:01:23 PM
Sounds like Bank doesn't actually watch the Celtic games.

heh

from that muffled whimper it sounds like kid has his head up his ass

SSDD

heh

oh and moron you're stlil on the clock



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 03, 2020, 10:17:07 PM
Lonzo back to LA to take on Lakers tonight

Hope he starts

Funny - LA said to be seeking a point
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 03, 2020, 10:18:41 PM
Meanwhile, Knicks management was right.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 03, 2020, 10:44:23 PM
Yahoo mock

New York Knicks

G LaMelo Ball, Illawara (NBL), 6-7, 180

There is a very good possibility that Ball could go No. 1 overall, but the main reservation for most teams is his defense. During his game against the NZ Breakers and RJ Hampton, he was challenging shots but guards could blow by him when he faced up one-on-one and tried to guard off the dribble. Ball has the tightest handle I’ve ever seen for a player his size, and unlike his older brother, Lonzo Ball, LaMelo has a strong pick-n-roll game, which you need at the NBA level. So far his dad, LaVar, has stayed quiet and out of the spotlight, which is a positive for LaMelo.
Title: Carlos
Post by: Kam on January 03, 2020, 10:59:12 PM
Nobody can see the pics you're posting.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 03, 2020, 11:04:10 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 03, 2020, 10:18:41 PM
Meanwhile, Knicks management was right.

When FIz was fired the lazy take from almost everyone in mainstream media was "the knicks are always a mess, Dolan is the problem" blah blah blah.

If you're shit at your job, come work for the Knicks, no one will place any blame on you. It's always Dolans' fault.

Knicks gig is the best in the NBA!
Title: Re: Carlos
Post by: carlos123 on January 03, 2020, 11:42:16 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 03, 2020, 10:59:12 PM
Nobody can see the pics you're posting.

Guess google photos is failing me. How about now?

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/svOXy7ZgnVqPkWxSsFKeCN9ntgkyw8cPSJf4CzI9fhzSMsrKJqts-foDVEDv0hQQeRdRj8i8UNrQDFU-rt_8yh7n9sMQjSnHE734cE-dLwilGTXcSsVv3TW6qZc7v2r35EPkIA6Y_avU3JcJROKf43MdnIxJCazE6IoWcy6Pz5boYJEmEfMrYlkSGztIcKHLGiCqP6rZi3cPzUhFGdnYIbEHiRLxehrPYYJ3mH8sxskAWpZHeFMOBPmjYBpv6z0TivwF18Dpy85qE0me-b7USE8JZsQ0G59IJ9RqVg2pT2piTPC5OWBUFGMbdXg6KjBcN3WJuVZ_oHinMVr20HRvhUHUYGyWDK8cB4KQIqfF2jVp-UZgw1Ts4eJf25HpHdL305u2fSWMQniSRLP75JIrYqvO5W65CXMFiT22atTXAKEWqj9gwEShOzGAebhT1KT5jF5gdwfBIvX3ABSDLRRoK_OPF0lmkh5959xeQ9mGremHrEqTlEILg0cYqch3wb9npV3pIJIycSUCBn5OQKdkyjjBOaLJrecbE6Ict5EAQ_lK9Ql6Nw5lFaiflUihj9bZpuOMYZKN9eu2l-xGPuFQPXP7UJXnGJeOSs5BMuFHa8_8I3l5aN2CyJNZKgbqbyc2JGZruOQ3r3YeORnINpmon9vGOSHJhg_9S_H2kee7G25QjWgklq9lenc=w749-h621-no)
Good fastball by Chip

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/LhkmDo_6jHvgWCi_R8KzlLt2GGVaBL27hdOcbx6mQw90k1gYvVCdp40v_E8CxYkwHbH4RLSz_gzDFDAdAEWyV4C2eyT161CdDyBxGfS29Qttr-bOs3n_s0RtUoHm8M5d7jjwguwRA_dRmshqfnbc8ccCxcR1O8ReQPUQnf8FghJ0-WXKkCEjdChwFqG6JwrQrMd9lFFijol4k2W79TbmyzVvN4EUGgkBO2TJc2CipCfMYhAMbN7JG-5xAjt1Ia2lD6l32Y4RZGYHPOWYeYY4Inz1zyX5l_YQWoAzcGsYka-9MvfwqeN63bHfzMYbtlTLlY5thzsojgc_TJ-teilxg2NwbDHTegJeYv4-UyRzC-ykn-70m8QNq4ZrCp5cSR1zuko6UZSiFn2xummbHAgh7HcSiM58bB1zBIVotJ8MQvbRVzpsNSukiJQVqskcqU23PJgbJR2cTjjkuqPBDntE5mCugnbHPuB7VGtWcWN6sSN-8Rx4lVXRr29h1WIybvuJNyMX8gnlpRkXf9O4adzpvkDOFOMyGOnXG3tubyIpONjNGEKb8QPl8U1Siud7FnLARvz_lKEyfv2x8Ms7NOh7EWxxfsvrJ-oKjCkch_zzXxriBZgP7jyxqaio8hYyYBhpKjKSKX3dtUQboO_mpjSCjXASrJL2aPcelEBaWcn7SyHvjDufyL0gxlk=w720-h917-no)
Les Positive Pussy #3
Title: Now it works
Post by: Kam on January 03, 2020, 11:52:28 PM
That's pretty funny actually
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 03, 2020, 11:54:44 PM
Good game by the Suns & a frustrating loss for the Knicks. Helps us stay in the lotto even if we put it together down the stretch.

Monster games by Baynes, Booker, and Oubre.

Payton was justifiably distracted.

There will be days like this. Likely 2 more in quick succession.
Title: Tale of two halves
Post by: Kam on January 03, 2020, 11:54:54 PM
First half - thing of beauty, suns couldn't make a three 0-9
2nd half - suns a blaze 10-19 from three
Title: Re: Now it works
Post by: carlos123 on January 04, 2020, 12:39:34 AM
Quote from: Kam on January 03, 2020, 11:52:28 PM
That's pretty funny actually

Thanks Kam.
Me and Enes love you actually 😍 ❤️
Title: Oubre
Post by: chipstern on January 04, 2020, 01:28:51 AM
Devin Booker has been a monster for a while. 

WOW. 

How exactly did the Celtics let Baynes walk?  Color me baffled. 

Wasn't one of our reigning handicappers pissing on Oubre as overrated and not worht a better contract and touting someone named Sadoransky [sic?] instead? 

Oubre really cooked our goose.  Pretty impressive wing.  RJ might take notice. 

MM and Portis kept us in the game.  Randle only 5-17, and pretty slipshod shooting in general: 10-37 from trey and 20-30 from the charity stripe, which really bit us in the ass. 

Did I neglect to kvell enough about Devin Booker?  Damn.  A 90% FT shooter, shoots a steady 50% from the field, doesn't force up every damn shot from three, and is good for 6-7 assists a game. 

We should be so lucky. 

Oh well...Clippers on Sunday should be scarier still. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 04, 2020, 06:56:02 AM
Just one assist for that Uber-bum.
Kiid also predicted Uber's minutes would drop due to Cam Johnson.
Uber averaging just over 36 mins per in Dec + Jan.
Only plays under 30 when he gets into foul trouble.
I like his long-armed steals and general passing lane terror.
When his 3-ball is dropping it opens up a lot for him.
Up to 46.4% / 36.4% / 76.4%
Just turned 24.

Looks like Randle came back to earth with a thud.
Nice stats form Ayton.
That Rubio pickup really allowed Booker to play his game.
They were desperate for a PG and Rubio is a nice player.
Wish we picked him up when we had a chance.

PHX only 14-21 but they've had 6 losses by 2 points or less, including nearly beating DEN twice.  Split those 3 games and they'd be 17-18. 

Rubio - Booker - Uber - Ayton make for 4 quality starters.
With two potential all-stars. 
Baynes, Tank, Bridges, Saric, Cam Johnson are all solid bench guys.  They just need a starting PF.  Tank or Saric if those guys can get healthy and fit in.
Add in Morris and they'd be a playoff team.

Maybe need a backup PG too.
I know nothing about Ty Jerome, Elie Okobo and JeVon Carter.
I guess that's enough for now, when you're not a playoff team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 04, 2020, 07:16:29 AM
From that linked article:

Quote
Fizdale liked to dial up different coverages for different opponents, calling for his Knicks to aggressively trap ball handlers in the pick-and-roll, drop back into a soft coverage, switch every screen, and lean on different zone looks from game to game, or even within games. There’s something to be said for defensive versatility, especially for veteran rosters with the savvy, experience, and continuity to understand how to play together in different contexts. For a Knicks roster made up of youngsters still learning the ropes and veterans who just got here, the full suite of defensive options was overkill, leading to frequent breakdowns and disastrous results

Seemed early on there would be a number of plays per game where no one rotated to an open shooter.  Then when the Knix were trying to collapse in the paint but still close out, i'd see one or two plays per game where two (and once three Knix) all converged on a shooter (usually too late).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 04, 2020, 07:56:29 AM
A list of 75 players who could be traded (https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-trade-deadline-2020-from-andre-iguodala-to-chris-paul-75-players-who-could-be-moved-before-feb-6/) before this deadline.
Includes almost every Knicker, and a bunch of players I've targeted.

I'm still interested in: Kurucs, Kornet, Giles, StanJohn, Juancho, Montrezl, Dragic, Covington (tho doubt he's available and his salary is a bargain).  Bertans and Bogdanovich are interesting but could be pricey RFA's.  Chris Paul.

BOS should look into Hayward and Theis for Steven Adams.

Wonder if we could swing some sort of Morris for Montrezl deal,  The idea being he'll be pricey as an RFA.  NY would love Montrezl throwing himself and others around.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on January 04, 2020, 10:04:39 AM
Quote
How exactly did the Celtics let Baynes walk?  Color me baffled.

Fucking NBA cap rules.

Celts loved him he loved Celts, and he was a presence in the paint, but they were short cap space to make moves  (Kemba) so he got shipped to the Suns and they got back a #1.

 
Title: Re: Oubre
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 04, 2020, 10:45:19 AM
Quote from: chipstern on January 04, 2020, 01:28:51 AM
Devin Booker has been a monster for a while. 

WOW. 

How exactly did the Celtics let Baynes walk?  Color me baffled. 

Wasn't one of our reigning handicappers pissing on Oubre as overrated and not worht a better contract and touting someone named Sadoransky [sic?] instead? 

Oubre really cooked our goose.  Pretty impressive wing.  RJ might take notice. 

MM and Portis kept us in the game.  Randle only 5-17, and pretty slipshod shooting in general: 10-37 from trey and 20-30 from the charity stripe, which really bit us in the ass. 

Did I neglect to kvell enough about Devin Booker?  Damn.  A 90% FT shooter, shoots a steady 50% from the field, doesn't force up every damn shot from three, and is good for 6-7 assists a game. 

We should be so lucky. 

Oh well...Clippers on Sunday should be scarier still.

Yeah - could have had Booker in the KP draft

Character counts
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 04, 2020, 10:50:07 AM
Baynes was actually traded WITH a first rounder for next year's MIL first. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 04, 2020, 11:14:02 AM
Wonder if we could swing some sort of Morris for Montrezl deal,  The idea being he'll be pricey as an RFA.  NY would love Montrezl throwing himself and others around.


I think I will take the first rounder
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 04, 2020, 12:55:49 PM
With Montrezl making just $6M, we'd need LAC to add in MoHark.
I'd do a deal of Randle & Taj for Montrezl, Mo Hark & Zubac.

Er, Clips have been starting MoHark at PF (and sometimes PatPat).  So Randle would be an upgrade.  But I guess I stick them starting Taj at C.

It's hard to get the numbers to work, cause you need Montrezl and MoHark to match Randle (or Morris') salary.  Knix tossing in other players makes more Clip salary needed.  They could throw in Mcgruder's $4.5M and we could give them a backup PG they need.   But do they need one of ours.

Anyway, we could make Montrezl an RFA offer over the Summer.  Can't have enough PF's  . . .

And then we'd need to pay Montrezl.  But he'd be a lot more fun than Randle.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 04, 2020, 01:57:42 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on January 04, 2020, 10:04:39 AM
Quote
How exactly did the Celtics let Baynes walk?  Color me baffled.

Fucking NBA cap rules.

Celts loved him he loved Celts, and he was a presence in the paint, but they were short cap space to make moves  (Kemba) so he got shipped to the Suns and they got back a #1.

Huh, well, that's not too damn painful. 

A protected #1 I would presume, if not someone else's #1 that Phoenix happened to have in the larder. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 04, 2020, 01:59:11 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 04, 2020, 12:55:49 PM
With Montrezl making just $6M, we'd need LAC to add in MoHark.
I'd do a deal of Randle & Taj for Montrezl, Mo Hark & Zubac.

Er, Clips have been starting MoHark at PF (and sometimes PatPat).  So Randle would be an upgrade.  But I guess I stick them starting Taj at C.

It's hard to get the numbers to work, cause you need Montrezl and MoHark to match Randle (or Morris') salary.  Knix tossing in other players makes more Clip salary needed.  They could throw in Mcgruder's $4.5M and we could give them a backup PG they need.   But do they need one of ours.

Anyway, we could make Montrezl an RFA offer over the Summer.  Can't have enough PF's  . . .

And then we'd need to pay Montrezl.  But he'd be a lot more fun than Randle.

No, your "criticism" of Julius Randle has been quite muted.

Cough. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on January 04, 2020, 02:21:56 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 04, 2020, 01:57:42 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on January 04, 2020, 10:04:39 AM
Quote
How exactly did the Celtics let Baynes walk?  Color me baffled.

Fucking NBA cap rules.

Celts loved him he loved Celts, and he was a presence in the paint, but they were short cap space to make moves  (Kemba) so he got shipped to the Suns and they got back a #1.

Huh, well, that's not too damn painful. 

A protected #1 I would presume, if not someone else's #1 that Phoenix happened to have in the larder.

Yup-it was a protected (1-8 I think) Bucks '20 #1 that will probably be 30-32.

Celts were swimming in 1s last year (they had potentially 4-Sac, Memphis, Clippers, and their own) so with the Baynes trade they got cap space to sign Kemba and shifted a 1 into the next year.  So this year they have Memphis (protected 1-6) their own and the Bucks. It looks like Memphis might cash around 10. I hope it rolls over into '21.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 04, 2020, 02:43:50 PM
Basically gave up Baynes for nothing.

Summing up Boston's use of draft picks

Had the 20 and 22 for 2019

Dealt the 20 - losing out on Tybulle (20th to Philly) and Clarke (21 to Memphis) - 2 guys playing good ball their rookie years

Picked Grant Williams at 22

With the 24 they received in the Tybulle deal Celts swapped again - in the Baynes trade  -  netting the space and the late 1 in 2020

Also coming to Celts in the deal of the #20 was the #33 which they used on Carsen Edwards

Both Edwards and Williams have played this year for Celts.

Of course those juicy picks from the Tatum deal arent so juicy after all,,,,hasnt lined up for Ainge as he has liked.  And jury is out on if Tatum is title pedigree
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 04, 2020, 03:10:43 PM
I'm assuming Randle is attractive enough to LAC that they give up some decent assets for him.

But really it doesn't work well without adding a 3rd team.

I've just added LAC as another team that needs a starting PF (along with POR and UTA).  And Knix have a PF surplus.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on January 04, 2020, 03:16:16 PM
kid's obssession is unabated.

The Baynes trade created cap space to sign a max player-Kemba.

Baynes was the cost of doing business.

And the Tatum trade was a great trade pure and simple.

The cash-in was a lottery pick.

and was whether it was the Lakers or the Kings pick.

But Ainge had little control of the Lakers falling just outside the protection in '18, or the Kings playing better than expected and the Celts getting into the lottery in '19.

It was a great trade.

And only a fool, too afraid to admit they were wrong, would continue to argue your baseless position.

Bigger picture Ainge took an aging team headed for mediocrity and got them to the be included in the convo for NBA contenders.

that you do not understand this, or too cowed to admit your ignorance, is not surprising.

I would remind you again you're been on the clock, and now for far longer than Fultz has ever taken the NBA court, but its increasingly clear you are too feeble to answer the question posed.


LMAO
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 04, 2020, 04:14:52 PM
But really it doesn't work well without adding a 3rd team.


Doesnt work AT ALL giving up Zubac
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 04, 2020, 04:46:02 PM
kid's obssession is unabated.


Not sure what you think I am obsessed with

I touted your guy Tatum throughout his one Duke season - and I think he is a fine pro

That you overrated the "haul" Ainge (another fave of mine) received is not my problem.

As with Trump forum, your fault is in the extremity of your viewpoint.

As you were...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 04, 2020, 04:50:00 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 04, 2020, 03:10:43 PM
I'm assuming Randle is attractive enough to LAC that they give up some decent assets for him.

But really it doesn't work well without adding a 3rd team.

I've just added LAC as another team that needs a starting PF (along with POR and UTA).  And Knix have a PF surplus.

I think we really only have two power forwards - and their defense is unappealing.

Portis is who they might look at
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 04, 2020, 04:52:46 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 04, 2020, 04:46:02 PM
kid's obssession is unabated.


Not sure what you think I am obsessed with

I touted your guy Tatum throughout his one Duke season - and I think he is a fine pro

That you overrated the "haul" Ainge (another fave of mine) received is not my problem.

As with Trump forum, your fault is in the extremity of your viewpoint.

As you were...

As in all forums, your ass and your mouth are indistinguishable. Pip pip. Cheerio.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 04, 2020, 04:55:41 PM
Easier to match salaries using Gibson - if Clippers want him

Problem is second rounders from good teams arent worth much and Taj doesnt come close to rating a first
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 04, 2020, 04:58:06 PM
Er, Clips have been starting MoHark at PF (and sometimes PatPat).  So Randle would be an upgrade.  But I guess I stick them starting Taj at C.


I actually think Harkless firs them better than Randle

Randle fits US better, since we need the lead scorer
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 04, 2020, 05:00:53 PM
From a couple days ago

In his recent article, Greg Swartz of Bleacher Report created several trade scenarios involving Towns. In the deal that would send him to Boston, Swartz suggested that the Celtics could offer a trade package including Jayson Tatum, Gordon Hayward, Carsen Edwards, Robert Williams III, and a 2020 first-round pick to the Timberwolves in exchange for Towns and Gorgui Dieng. The deal works on ESPN‘s NBA Trade Machine.



https://www.inquisitr.com/5816922/karl-anthony-towns-celtics-trade-tatum-hayward-timberwolves/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 04, 2020, 05:13:55 PM
Of course those juicy picks from the Tatum deal arent so juicy after all,,,,hasnt lined up for Ainge as he has liked.  And jury is out on if Tatum is title pedigree


Right or wrong, Bank?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on January 04, 2020, 05:21:41 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 04, 2020, 04:46:02 PM
kid's obssession is unabated.


Not sure what you think I am obsessed with

I touted your guy Tatum throughout his one Duke season - and I think he is a fine pro

That you overrated the "haul" Ainge (another fave of mine) received is not my problem.

As with Trump forum, your fault is in the extremity of your viewpoint.

As you were...

You seem obssessed with Tatum, and to dwell on his poor shooting nights, ignore his many great nights, and are wholly oblivious to the widely held opinion by most neutral observers, that he is an NBA star in the making.

And you have a crying obsession to try and rewrite your idiotic hot takes on the guy.

 I overated nothing, but have merely countered your hot take on the trade. Tatum and a lottery pick for the right to draft Fultz was a major win for Ainge any way you analyze the facts.  And we now have 3 years of data.

As posted a couple of days ago Tatum has logged about 6000 minutes to Fultz 1500 since going pro.

the value received by the Celts, aside from his being a better player, the quality playing minutes is multiples (4X) of what was traded away.

You new HOT Take to distract from your original idiocy, is that Tatum has yet to prove he is title worthy is idiotic.

Should we apply that same caveat to AD, KAT, KP or Gawd forbid Lonzo?

HEH

Wake the fuck up kid.

or don't


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 04, 2020, 05:22:35 PM
A forward, Thybulle played his college hoops at Washington, Thybulle averaged a career-high 2.3 blocks per game as a senior, and was considered one of the best defenders available in this year's draft class.



Celtics have the midget Edwards instead of this guy - and no Baynes

Nice use of additional picks by Ainge

Tell me when these Celts get as far as Kyrie's team did
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on January 04, 2020, 05:24:59 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 04, 2020, 05:13:55 PM
Of course those juicy picks from the Tatum deal arent so juicy after all,,,,hasnt lined up for Ainge as he has liked.  And jury is out on if Tatum is title pedigree


Right or wrong, Bank?

Wrong right off the bat.

the Celts received 1 pick for trading the right to Fultz.

and he was a guy you did not mention in any of your posts.

I will chalk it up to your general ignorance.

The title pedigree silliness was already dealt with (see above)

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 04, 2020, 05:26:16 PM
You seem obssessed with Tatum, and to dwell on his poor shooting nights, ignore his many great nights, and are wholly oblivious to the widely held opinion by most neutral observers, that he is an NBA star in the making.


There are stars and then there are STARS

I like the two point guards

If you were willing to do any thinking at all you could conclude how good Celts might be had they not made the deal and selected a lead dog.

Jettisoning Morris and Horford may not have occurred, remember

But yeah, they are OLD - I get it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 04, 2020, 05:27:33 PM
By the way - very close to the draft Celts were going to take Josh Jackson. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on January 04, 2020, 05:31:59 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 04, 2020, 05:22:35 PM
A forward, Thybulle played his college hoops at Washington, Thybulle averaged a career-high 2.3 blocks per game as a senior, and was considered one of the best defenders available in this year's draft class.



Celtics have the midget Edwards instead of this guy - and no Baynes

Nice use of additional picks by Ainge

Tell me when these Celts get as far as Kyrie's team did

They also got Kemba, which you seem to forget was the point of trading Baynes.

Are you stupid or inentionally misleading.

The picks by Ainge you mock have resulted in building a team that went from 25 wins to 2 ECF appearances. and most likely future post-season appearances.

This year the chalk was 48 wins, but as we speak, they have the 3rd best record in the NBA, and it seems they may get closer to 60 wins and poised for another deep post-season run.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 04, 2020, 05:39:22 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 04, 2020, 03:10:43 PM
I'm assuming Randle is attractive enough to LAC that they give up some decent assets for him.

But really it doesn't work well without adding a 3rd team.

I've just added LAC as another team that needs a starting PF (along with POR and UTA).  And Knix have a PF surplus.

So let's bite our nose to spite our face and send them our best PF for spare parts. 

Brilliant. 

Keep your day job. 

PS: Clips are not giving Harrell to ANYONE.  Your trade is nonsense.  As is your "muted" dismissal of Randle as a one-dimensional bum, paralleling Hamster's obsession with Kanter.  It's only forum chin music, and as such, neither here nor there, but it still rubs me the wrong way. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 04, 2020, 05:52:38 PM
Ainge loves youth and Euros

In one draft alone he passed on solid 4 year collegians LeVert, Siakam and Brogdon
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on January 04, 2020, 05:56:51 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 04, 2020, 05:52:38 PM
Ainge loves yputh and Euros

In one draft alone he passed on solid 4 year collegians LeVert, Siakam and Brogdon

Hard to believe a man so short-sighted could have passed on so many great players, and still retain his job.

Yet miraculously he has rebuilt a 25 win team into a contender with a lot of drafted players and international crap shoots.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 04, 2020, 05:59:28 PM
Are Celts owners bottom line guys?

Celts are filling the building so I guess they are happy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on January 04, 2020, 06:03:38 PM
I understand Dolan sells out MSG,

By your logic Knick fans must be delirious.

heh

and kid changes the subject

SSDD
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 04, 2020, 06:10:03 PM
I wasnt asking about Dolan
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 04, 2020, 06:10:51 PM
You have had one gifted title in 34 years
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 04, 2020, 06:15:51 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on January 04, 2020, 05:31:59 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 04, 2020, 05:22:35 PM
A forward, Thybulle played his college hoops at Washington, Thybulle averaged a career-high 2.3 blocks per game as a senior, and was considered one of the best defenders available in this year's draft class.



Celtics have the midget Edwards instead of this guy - and no Baynes

Nice use of additional picks by Ainge

Tell me when these Celts get as far as Kyrie's team did

They also got Kemba, which you seem to forget was the point of trading Baynes.

Are you stupid or inentionally misleading.

The picks by Ainge you mock have resulted in building a team that went from 25 wins to 2 ECF appearances. and most likely future post-season appearances.

This year the chalk was 48 wins, but as we speak, they have the 3rd best record in the NBA, and it seems they may get closer to 60 wins and poised for another deep post-season run.

I see 1, maybe 2 good road wins

https://www.google.com/search?q=celtics+schedule&rlz=1CAJCUZ_enUS877&oq=celtics+schedule&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l7.7238j1j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#sie=t;/m/0bwjj;3;/m/05jvx;mt;fp;1;;
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on January 04, 2020, 06:19:52 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 04, 2020, 06:10:51 PM
You have had one gifted title in 34 years

Do you really want to pursue this line?

heh

In any case, with some luck and an honestly reffed game in G7 in '10 Finals, the Celts should have won 3 in the KG-Pierce-Allen years.

but whether its

1 in 34

or

4 in 38

or

6 in 44

I think we can agree that its better than

ZERO for 47.

Right?

Oh yeah, I forgot #s are not your thing.

LMAO
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 04, 2020, 06:25:11 PM
But I dont brag about my franchise
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on January 04, 2020, 06:30:32 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 04, 2020, 06:25:11 PM
But I dont brag about my franchise

Nor do I kid.

I just use facts to prove my case and make you look like a fool,

its fun and EZ and I've been doing it for years.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 04, 2020, 06:33:02 PM
Kid is such a bag of shit that if he’s not pooping on something the gas builds up and he explodes.

It’s never pretty. Sorry Banks, that you wound up in the line of sphincter.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 04, 2020, 06:34:34 PM
Pretty sure we beat you last time we met in playoffs
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 04, 2020, 06:36:48 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on January 04, 2020, 06:30:32 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 04, 2020, 06:25:11 PM
But I dont brag about my franchise

Nor do I kid.



You said you were 3rd best in league

And I said you had a mere 2 good road wins - and your budding "star" cannot carry a franchise
Title: My hot take on Tatum
Post by: carlos123 on January 04, 2020, 06:39:19 PM
Tatum + a #1 for Fultz was not just a steal by Ainge. More like armed robbery with intent and deceit. Even Chico knows that, but he seems to just enjoy arguing with Bank.

Bank, maybe you could tell him ok you’re right, you know, like you tell the crazy uncle who got drunk for Thanksgiving, just so he lets the rest of the family finish dinner without killing anybody.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on January 04, 2020, 06:39:51 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 04, 2020, 06:33:02 PM
Kid is such a bag of shit that if he’s not pooping on something the gas builds up and he explodes.

It’s never pretty. Sorry Banks, that you wound up in the line of sphincter.

Fac

kid missed out on the logic DNA sequence, but was overendowed with the hot takz double-helix. And ocassionally his diapers can't contain those extra hot takz.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on January 04, 2020, 06:44:53 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 04, 2020, 06:36:48 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on January 04, 2020, 06:30:32 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 04, 2020, 06:25:11 PM
But I dont brag about my franchise

Nor do I kid.



You said you were 3rd best in league

And I said you had a mere 2 good road wins - and your budding "star" cannot carry a franchise

Wrong again kid, what I said the Celts had the 3rd best record in the NBA.

and as we speak, they do.

Thats called a fact and its verifiable.

Its not an opinion.

On the other hand you submit your opinions and beleive they are facts.

They are not.

They are just the hot takz leaking from your diaper.

heh
Title: Re: My hot take on Tatum
Post by: bankshot1 on January 04, 2020, 06:48:18 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 04, 2020, 06:39:19 PM
Tatum + a #1 for Fultz was not just a steal by Ainge. More like armed robbery with intent and deceit. Even Chico knows that, but he seems to just enjoy arguing with Bank.

Bank, maybe you could tell him ok you’re right, you know, like you tell the crazy uncle who got drunk for Thanksgiving, just so he lets the rest of the family finish dinner without killing anybody.

Carlos-Happy New Year.

its more fun spinning poor kid on his head and watch him puke on himself.

For that mess, I'm sorry.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 04, 2020, 06:48:48 PM
Tatum + a #1 for Fultz was not just a steal by Ainge. More like armed robbery with intent and deceit. Even Chico knows that, but he seems to just enjoy arguing with Bank.


Thanks for checking in

I wasnt taking Fultz.  But I like how he is coming along.
Title: Be Careful What You Wish For
Post by: chipstern on January 04, 2020, 06:52:18 PM
Marc Stein: Kyrie Irving, speaking to the media for the first time in two months, tells reporters in Brooklyn that he has opted for a cortisone shot in his ailing shoulder in hopes it will allow him to avoid surgery – via Twitter TheSteinLine

Brian Lewis: Irving got the shot Dec. 24. He and the #Nets will assess after two months and will hope he can avoid arthroscopic surgery. But that’s certainly possible. He admits he considered it, but it’d take him out 3-4 months. – via Twitter NYPost_Lewis

Not GOOD. 

I've had cortisone shots, and often the cure is worse than the disease.  Sandy Koufax retired after his finest season, rather than endure any more. 

This is serious business and if I were a betting man, I'd wager Kyrie is going under the knife and will return at roughly the same time as Kevin Durant. 

Cortisone is a stopgap, a palliative, it is NOT A CURE. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 04, 2020, 06:59:22 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 04, 2020, 06:48:48 PM
Tatum + a #1 for Fultz was not just a steal by Ainge. More like armed robbery with intent and deceit. Even Chico knows that, but he seems to just enjoy arguing with Bank.


Thanks for checking in

I wasnt taking Fultz.  But I like how he is coming along.

To further analyze that draft, Philly staying at 3 made more sense unless they were taking Tatum or Jackson.  They had Simmons already

2 scoring guards I guess is what they were after.  But neither was a sniper.  Poor building, I'd say.  But they seem to have survived
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on January 04, 2020, 07:12:46 PM
heh

kid's analyzing that draft 3 years after the fact and uncovering truths that most figured out 3 years ago.

TFF

awesome analysis.

bottom line moron

if the 76ers should have stayed at #3, then perhaps they made a mistake by giving up a lottery pick to to their division rival to get Fultz, the shooting guard who couldn't and wouldn't shoot,

have mom change your diaper so it will stay with you for a little longer than usual.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 04, 2020, 07:21:47 PM
Once you say diaper you admit defeat
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 04, 2020, 07:23:23 PM
kid's analyzing that draft 3 years after the fact and uncovering truths that most figured out 3 years ago.


Other thought is Philly thought Fultz was a whirlwind

And werent wowed by Jackson or Tatum

They were 1 for 2 on that last one
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on January 04, 2020, 07:38:39 PM
Its unfortunate that kid changes his stories more often than his mom changes his diapers.

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 04, 2020, 08:21:21 PM
They also got Kemba, which you seem to forget was the point of trading Baynes.


Not expressly at the time

Horford and Rozier were still in play

And there were other avenues.

If you're happy, that is what matters.  I think Horford is a key loss.  Seen in Tatum's usage being too great for my taste.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on January 04, 2020, 09:50:22 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 04, 2020, 08:21:21 PM
They also got Kemba, which you seem to forget was the point of trading Baynes.


Not expressly at the time

Horford and Rozier were still in play

And there were other avenues.

If you're happy, that is what matters.  I think Horford is a key loss.  Seen in Tatum's usage being too great for my taste.

kid you can throw out as many names as you like, and propose that there weere several braod boulevards that Ainge could traverse, but the point of trading Baynes was to create cap space for a max contract for a new PG.

Your theory, much like your diaper, that Ainge did this for no reason, doesn't hold water.

And yes, losing Horford was the real loss. He would have fit so well with this team.

And yes I'm mostly content.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 04, 2020, 09:58:03 PM
kid you can throw out as many names as you like, and propose that there weere several braod boulevards that Ainge could traverse, but the point of trading Baynes was to create cap space for a max contract for a new PG.


Not expressly or solely, according to my earlier research

I didnt say he did it for no reason.  I dont happen to think Baynes was that good.  It's Horford that is the key loss.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on January 04, 2020, 10:05:37 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 04, 2020, 09:58:03 PM
kid you can throw out as many names as you like, and propose that there weere several braod boulevards that Ainge could traverse, but the point of trading Baynes was to create cap space for a max contract for a new PG.


Not expressly or solely, according to my earlier research

I didnt say he did it for no reason.  I dont happen to think Baynes was that good.  It's Horford that is the key loss.

You indicated that Celts got nothing for Baynes.

As posted several times they got the needed cap space to get Kemba.

What you think about Baynes is pretty much irrelevant.

But it was clear you had no idea what the trade was about.

Title: See how easy?
Post by: carlos123 on January 04, 2020, 10:07:30 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 04, 2020, 06:48:48 PM
Tatum + a #1 for Fultz was not just a steal by Ainge. More like armed robbery with intent and deceit. Even Chico knows that, but he seems to just enjoy arguing with Bank.


Thanks for checking in

I wasnt taking Fultz.  But I like how he is coming along.

Ok, you're right crazy uncle.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 04, 2020, 10:14:05 PM
I would think had Horford re-upped Celts might have added a Payton type to their squad.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on January 04, 2020, 10:36:35 PM
this board's favorite Celtic had 17 and 12 in a win the the Windy City.

Tatum was 12 for 15 shooting including 2 for 4 in 3s with 28 points 7 boards.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 04, 2020, 11:26:31 PM
13th win for Detroit, battling for final East slot amidst talk of dealing Drummond
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 04, 2020, 11:28:57 PM
And Charlotte gets win #15 in Dallas - with Rozier going for 29, 8 and 6

(42/39/84 for Terry)
Title: Bank & Kiid Are Yin & Yang-The Eternal Joust [With Special Guests Hamster & BoD]
Post by: chipstern on January 05, 2020, 12:20:51 AM
(https://bzangygroink.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/image003.jpg)

We Who Are About To Plotz, Salute You

(http://media.giphy.com/media/C3BdQG5RpAOBO/giphy.gif)

Daddy

(https://images.gr-assets.com/hostedimages/1558490146ra/27552267.gif)

MAKE IT STOP...Anything But This. 

(https://media3.giphy.com/media/xT0xeNlZ3OQRQp8oU0/giphy.gif)

Anything? 

(https://media0.giphy.com/media/3MO3jQVJq9hjG/giphy.gif)

Reruns Of Enes & Julius SUCK?

(https://66.media.tumblr.com/44a1d80580fae9c57812f2f39a8ad2e4/tumblr_pm1kf43VoP1rchkzlo8_500.gifv)

Sure.  Why the fuck not.  Every damn song has the same refrain but least ways they've got a beat you can dance to. 




Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 05, 2020, 02:37:36 AM
I'd trade any of our players except Mitch -- while RJB is worth more to us than we'd get in any trade.  One thing I like about RJB is that he is a physical rook.  That's what impressed me early on about Tatum and Jaylen.  A willingness to take it to the rack and make contact.  Knox for instance looks germophobic out there or like he's secretly addicted to heparin.

Knix need a starting PG and shooters more than they need Randle or anyone else we have.

Most of my deals have been trying to move Morris, because he has the most value, putting up a career year, and he's pretty plug and play on most teams.  I can imagine many playoff teams believing he could boost them into contention.  UTA, POR, LAC could use a starting PF/F.

Quote from: chipstern on January 04, 2020, 05:39:22 PM
PS: Clips are not giving Harrell to ANYONE. 

There's talk La Clips won't be able to afford or won't be willing to pay him what he's worth.  Montrezl's low salary makes it hard to make a deal work numberswise.  But yes, I like Harrell better than Randle, and don't consider Trezl a spare part. 

Some worry that Mitch and Harell do the same kind of rimrunning, and I think that concern (with Capela) is why the Rockettes were willing to move Montrezl (or they just didn't have faith he develop as he has).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 05, 2020, 02:49:56 AM
Overall, from a team perspective, I'd rather trade Randle and re-sign Morris.  Morris is more versatile, more of a leader, more of a 2-way player, just a bit old for our squad, but you always need vets to lead the way.

Morris an easier guy to build a team around too.  Though by the time Mitch, Knox, RJB and Franc become any good, if ever, Morris will be a greybeard.  But he could be a solid transitional figure.  Morris would love a long-term contract and home, and he has a hard-nosed Knick vibe to him.

I am profoundly ambivalent about Julius with a tinge of distaste (gee, you think that sentence might rub chip's fur the wrong way?).  Randle is a throwback, a one-position post-up bull with shoddy defense.  His 3-ball which was coming along last year has deserted him.  Mr. Versatile he's not.  Fairly solid at what he does, but hard to build around his limitations (which include blackholeism and turnovers). 

Is Randle going to become consistent on 3's or play average D?  I don't see it.  But if so, that'd make him more useful and I could be on board.  Otherwise if he remains, and remains as is, you need to bring some guys in who fit around Randle (shooters and defenders), and preferably bump him to 3rd option where he could thrive.  But is Randle really a guy you build a team around?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 05, 2020, 03:01:58 AM
As we're playing guys, Randle and Portis are PF's, Taj a C and Morris an SF.  But really Taj is a PF/C.  And Morris an SF/PF.

A question is what about Knox.  Is he an SF or PF?  Right now an F, but he needs to board and defend better to play PF which is what he'll likely grow into.  And RJB -  an SG or SF?  Right now he's just a Wing, but which position is natural for him?  Blasting through smaller G's worked well for him early in the season until teams counteracted.  But to build a team, we need to look 3 years out and see where those pups will play and what's needed next to them.

It's too bad Portis can't maintain any consistency.  Then he could either be a solid cog in what we're building or be a good trade chip.  But his D is weak and he shows up every 3rd game.  Looks terrific every now and then.  Then wanders around lost for a couple games.

Knix, with our record and needs, should start showcasing some guys in Jan & Feb.  Portis, Franc, Randle, Payton, Taj, Trier etc.  Morris has already proven himself.  Jr. Smith looks like a basketcase for this year (unlikely to turn it around before the deadline).


As for shooters, maybe Bogdanovich needs to be a serious Knick FA target.  Guy has some handle and passing ability as well.  Would $15M cover him?  Say 3/$47M.  4/$52 too low?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 05, 2020, 04:24:57 AM
Wow, Memf crushed La Clips scoring 140.  LAC needed that Randle defense.  Actually PG and PaBev were out.  Crowder really filled up the stat sheet.  4 straight 30+ assist games for Memf.

Memf's 7-10 Road record is better than PHI and POR (both 7-12) and the same as INDy.

Oddly 6 teams have better Road v. Home records:
Lakers, Mavs, Hornets, TWolves, Suns, Griz.
Three more -- Knix, Hawks, Pels -- have the same number of Road and Home W's.

Wiz 3rd unit did it again.
Shot 37-56 = 66%.  Just 2 turnovers.
Troy Brown 25 & 14 boards (from your SG!)
Ish went off too.  Pasenics.
Wiz bench (3rd unit due to 1st unit out) killed the vaunted DEN bench.  Dropped 128 on the Nuggies.  (DEN needs a trade... needs Morris ...)


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 05, 2020, 12:59:31 PM
Knix need a starting PG and shooters more than they need Randle or anyone else we have.


Watch the replay of NO at LAL and tell me Lonzo Ball isn't everything this board has been clamoring for.

The brother act comes to NY?

Not so far fetched.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 05, 2020, 01:05:06 PM
There's talk La Clips won't be able to afford or won't be willing to pay him what he's worth.  Montrezl's low salary makes it hard to make a deal work numberswise.  But yes, I like Harrell better than Randle, and don't consider Trezl a spare part.


You have been told ten times now - you vastly underrate Randle

Word around the league is his 2 years remaining looks good at his price - and we would have no shortage of suitors

But he fits our team as well.

Trade a Randle and you'll just be looking to add a Randle
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 05, 2020, 01:14:12 PM
Public service announcement

Game today is at 330 pm eastern
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 05, 2020, 01:19:23 PM
48/33/83 last ten games for Randle as he settles in

More along the lines of career (FG) and career best (3 pt) percentages

23 and 10

turnovers (2.2) down but assists (2.7) also down
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 05, 2020, 01:59:02 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 05, 2020, 12:59:31 PM
Knix need a starting PG and shooters more than they need Randle or anyone else we have.


Watch the replay of NO at LAL and tell me Lonzo Ball isn't everything this board has been clamoring for.

The brother act comes to NY?

Not so far fetched.

Don’t see how either Ball bro help with rim protection depth.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 05, 2020, 02:10:51 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 05, 2020, 01:05:06 PM
Word around the league is his 2 years remaining looks good at his price - and we would have no shortage of suitors
But he fits our team as well.
Trade a Randle and you'll just be looking to add a Randle

His contract is palatable because of the way it's structured.
Next year he makes $19M, but the following year only $4M is guaranteed.  So he effectively is on a 2 year deal.  With the 3rd year akin to a team option.

Lots of suitors?  Doubt it.  But if so, I'd love to hear what we could get.  If we trade Randle, I doubt we're in the market for another post-up PF who doesn't defend the rim or make 3's.

I think Randle would have looked better this year playing with a decent PG and in a better scheme.  And I think that's more or less what has occurred with the return of Payton, better play by Franc, Miller taking over.  But he's still tasked with too much, because of our team limitations.

I still need something more from Randle: consistency, leadership, 3's, defense.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 05, 2020, 02:16:03 PM
I think Lonzo has talent.  But he's had injury woes and he'd be another poor shooting PG.  His 3's are up to league average (35.6%) on a half dozen attempts per, but his FT's are at a measly 53%. 

If he was available on the cheap, I'd be interested.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 05, 2020, 03:12:48 PM
Randle is a strong durable dude who can D on the perimeter, boards, gets tough buckets through contact, and be a consistent volume scorer. He doesn’t protect the rim as much as he can walk off the paint. He’s no kind of drive deterrent nor will he be. Defensive motor, focus, and off ball work all need much work. We’ve got a good coach and a reasonably priced year for what he brings already. You don’t look to max him out unless he starts living a lot closer to his peak.

Mitch
Randle Portis
Knox Iggy
Barrett Bullock
Payton Frank

Resign Morris if he’ll come for a reasonable deal. Sign an alpha scoring guard and some rim protecting depth, your probable lottery pick, and spin.
Title: Kadeem
Post by: chipstern on January 05, 2020, 04:12:16 PM
 No surprises there.

Every time he has gotten some daylight, he has delivered.

Then misses two FTs.

PS: Top bad Portis can't string together two games in a riw, eh, Bo?

Then he picks up a dumb as taunting technical.
Title: Taj
Post by: chipstern on January 05, 2020, 04:22:52 PM
Has been getting called for those moving fucking screens all season.

PS: Harrell a BEAST.  Clippers get their wake up call.  Time out Mike.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 05, 2020, 04:24:47 PM
"Harrell is dominating"

Two games in a row.  Color me impressed!  Mr Consistency.

Frank uninspired.
His 23 foot shot went 21 feet.
Got the ball poked away in the backcourt.
Made a weak obvious pass that LouW almost stole.
All in 3 or 4 possessions.
Title: Jekyll & Hyde
Post by: chipstern on January 05, 2020, 04:27:53 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 05, 2020, 04:24:47 PM
"Harrell is dominating"

Two games in a row.  Color me impressed!  Mr Consistency.

Frank uninspired.
His 23 foot shot went 21 feet.
Got the ball poked away in the backcourt.
Made a weak obvious pass that LouW almost stole.
All in 3 or 4 possessions.

From shooting 76% to 2 for 12

Yikes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 05, 2020, 04:41:11 PM
Down 5, Randle launches a 3.  Long rebound, Clips push, Randle doesn't locate LouW in transition and he cans a 3.  Hmm ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 05, 2020, 04:45:17 PM
That was bizarre.

Talk about yin abd yang.

"Hopefully some defense."

Word.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 05, 2020, 04:51:52 PM
Jeez, Clips have some guy named Fia singing a song that it sounds like he's making up on the spot.  As that doesn't work, he goes into a Bob Marley medley.  He's also a chubby guy in a Clippers jersey so the whole effect is that they just got a fan to come up and do his best.  Unimpressive.  You'd think LA might have musicians ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 05, 2020, 04:58:08 PM
Clips have 3 guys with 19 or more points ... in the 1st half.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 05, 2020, 05:12:43 PM
His contract is palatable because of the way it's structured.


and because of the reasonable dollars

I have always seen that as a 3-year - dont think there will be a buyout
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 05, 2020, 05:16:04 PM
A question is what about Knox.  Is he an SF or PF?  Right now an F, but he needs to board and defend better to play PF which is what he'll likely grow into. 


You're nuts
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 05, 2020, 05:18:09 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 05, 2020, 05:12:43 PM
I have always seen that as a 3-year - dont think there will be a buyout

Me neither.  But it is insurance and provides flexibility in case he gets injured or you really need the cap space for something more enticing/major. 
Title: WTF?
Post by: chipstern on January 05, 2020, 05:53:54 PM
Roller

Coaster
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 05, 2020, 06:02:28 PM
Down 6 and Frank will not shoot a 3.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 05, 2020, 06:21:52 PM
That Franc drive with 1:20 left was sweet.  Too bad he missed the And1 which would have cut it to 3.

Morris with a nice audition for La Clips.
Just okay game for Portis.
Two nice inside passes.  Two travels.
Got fouled on a 3.  Clanked his next 3.

Knix missed 13 FT's.  Lose by 3.

Knox barely played.
Kadeem looked pretty good.
Moves the ball, probes the paint some.


Title: Audition
Post by: chipstern on January 05, 2020, 06:35:57 PM
Puh-Leese. 

For what?

Moe Harkless? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 05, 2020, 06:42:12 PM
Trezl and MoHark . . .
Title: Ho Ho Bo
Post by: chipstern on January 05, 2020, 06:49:18 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 05, 2020, 06:42:12 PM
Trezl and MoHark . . .

Hey, you forgot to have them tossing in Lou Williams

Knowing you all these years as I do, I cannot say for certain if you are waxing satirical...

Or if you are flat out DELUSIONAL. 

The Jury is OUT.

In what quadrant of the known universe are the Clips going to offload MH?

The Jury Is IN: BoD is being sarcastic.  Praise the Lord. 

(https://media2.giphy.com/media/12PIT4DOj6Tgek/giphy.gif)

You so funny. 

Ho Ho Bo.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 05, 2020, 07:35:36 PM
Knix missed 13 FT's.  Lose by 3.


Yeah - really a recipe for disaster to have your most fouled guys be the clangers.

Has to be remedied with next year's roster.
Title: Kiid Speaks
Post by: chipstern on January 05, 2020, 07:48:15 PM
Trump has "set a standard" for presidents "that most mortals won't be able to meet. He out-works them, he out-thinks, he is remarkably resourceful, he's bright, his judgment is second to none."

Good LORD, man. 
Title: You fell for Chico's "prank"
Post by: carlos123 on January 05, 2020, 08:24:04 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 05, 2020, 07:48:15 PM
Trump has "set a standard" for presidents "that most mortals won't be able to meet. He out-works them, he out-thinks, he is remarkably resourceful, he's bright, his judgment is second to none."

Good LORD, man.

Your post is what Chico was looking for. Now he's happy.

Anyway, I copied his "signature", with some MINOR changes for accuracy.

Now Chico is less happy.
Title: This for emphasis
Post by: carlos123 on January 05, 2020, 08:30:01 PM
(https://specials-images.forbesimg.com/imageserve/5d3a21c2090f4300070d9db2/960x0.jpg?fit=scale)

HOLA CHICO
Title: Informal poll
Post by: carlos123 on January 05, 2020, 08:59:24 PM
Chico is one of the kiids ...

(https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/sites/default/files/custom/Natalie/Trump_embed_1.jpg)

Which one?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 06, 2020, 01:50:57 AM
3 times during the broadcast Knick announcers mentioned that La Clips were interested in Morris (the 3rd time "very interested").  And there's been talk that Trezl will not return because of salary demands and wanting to have a bigger role.  While Morris is having a monster season and also stretches the floor.

Clips can't really match salary for Morris without flipping Trezl and Hark.  It's hard to make a trade work, besides Trezl + Hark for Morris.  Maybe it requires the mythical 3-way deal in which we get Trezl, they get Morris, while Hark + one of Payton/Portis/Taj goes elsewhere.  And we'd get another player.

If it cold be done straight up, I bet we'd have Trezl and they'd have Morris.  As it is, unlikely to be consummated.  But somebody in one front office or another is concocting 3-ways.  Trezl and MaMo both has impressive games.  I'll agree Clips probably aren't one of Randle's many suitors.

Was a fun crazy game.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 06, 2020, 08:24:46 AM
Harkless, Kabungele and a #1

There - not that hard
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 06, 2020, 11:19:30 AM
Would we do that?

Couldn't we find a better deal than a solid role player on an expiring contract, a pick around 25 or so, and a guy his mother loves.  (currently La Clips are tied for the 3rd most W's).

That'd be a terrific deal for LAC.
Upgrading Mo Hark with a quality starter at minimal cost.

I was trying to attain Mon Trezl.  That's what is hard to work out.
Hark and some limited sweeteners would be marginally acceptable.  Howsoever, I'd try to get a higher pick -- like from POR or UTA -- and a better yute, such as Simons.

Maybe that's all we could get.  Just seems like after a year or two we could end up with nada for Morris, who has played at a very high level this year.  Would we re-sign Mohawk, get anything from  MF Kabelenge, or find something useful at #25? 
A yute and a late pick isn't terrible, but I'd hope for better.
Title: Cripes
Post by: chipstern on January 06, 2020, 12:13:31 PM
Yes, by all means, let's trade our best player, someone who actually WANTS TO BE A KNICK, for a complete load of crap. 

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/a007d0277885119b49a3016975241b6c/tenor.gif?itemid=7774935)

An excellent selling point for future free agents. 

(https://media.giphy.com/media/l0HlGyAwBHgxyjBqU/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 06, 2020, 12:39:07 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 06, 2020, 08:24:46 AM
Harkless, Kabungele and a #1

There - not that hard

Hey, NOTHING TO IT.

Your judgement is second to none. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 06, 2020, 01:29:43 PM
I was looking to trade Morris or Randle for Trezl.
Which is hard to work out.

Morris has a nice NYK vibe.
I'd be fine re-signing him.
But he's aging and having a mighty fine contract year.
While trading him could help us rebuild . . .
A Hark + deal isn't terribly appealing.  Fwiw, we could have the cap space that signing Morris would take up ...
Title: Somebody Shoot Me
Post by: chipstern on January 06, 2020, 01:52:11 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 06, 2020, 01:29:43 PM
I was looking to trade Morris or Randle for Trezl.
Which is hard to work out.

Morris has a nice NYK vibe.
I'd be fine re-signing him.
But he's aging and having a mighty fine contract year.
While trading him could help us rebuild . . .
A Hark + deal isn't terribly appealing.  Fwiw, we could have the cap space that signing Morris would take up ...

We could have that cap space by simply letting him walk (or a sign and trade next summer, as pointless as that might be). 

This feeding frenzy in the media by dipshits like Berman, who keep fanning the flame, makes me ill. 

Harkless is a bum.  We're going to sit on Kevin Knox's face to bring on No Moe and a late first rounder? 

You are looking to trade for Trezl.  I most def share your admiration for his game and his character. 

A noble aspiration, for sure. 

But hey...why stop there?  Be REALLY BOLD. 

I AM looking to trade for Trae Young and Anthony Davis. 

We finally get someone as a FA who wants to be here, is having a career year (oooooooh, a CONTACT YEAR, the cynical fuck-wad, my bad), is contributing something positive to the culture, and people are gathered round the camp fire in a mass circle jerk over a disposable piece of shit and a late first rounder, a very late first rounder, in what is being touted as one of the weakest draft classes in recent memory. 

There is a reason the Knicks have sucked for 20 years, and it ain't just James Dolan and the front office, friends. 

DAWG: Time for you to chime in about Zach Randolph, is it not? 

BoD: Is it fair to recall how you had a 24/7 hard-on about Jamal Crawford's short-comings, while pooh-pooing his attributes?  Think the likes of Jamal and Trevor Ariza might have made enduring contribution to Knicks' culture?  Now, never mind that we have a 25-year old PF capable of giving us 20-10-5 on a nightly basis, but we lack for the ideal PG to facilitate his game, and besides, another sub-par defender, just like Jamal, so let's get rid of him.  GEE, THINK THERE MIGHT BE A REASON WHY MOST FREE AGENTS DON'T WANT TO COME HERE, and we end up with two front line bigs who are growing before our eyes, compared to where they were two months ago, and all motherfuckers can think about are trade fucking fantasies.  And we get to hear all about what a great 3&D Less Is Moe Sparkless would be, while Kevin Knox is only in his second fucking season. 

THE GRASS AIN'T ALWAYS GREENER, for fuck's sake. 

Think the Nyets might listen to offers for Kyrie Irving? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 06, 2020, 01:59:16 PM
Couldn't we find a better deal than a solid role player on an expiring contract, a pick around 25 or so, and a guy his mother loves.  (currently La Clips are tied for the 3rd most W's).


Kabungele has some skilz.  17-10 with 2 blocks in G league

After poking around, if this was all there was - I'd likely pull the trigger

Morris says he wants to stay.  I dont know - maybe we negotiate with him now - see how expensive it would be.  Usually it isnt done this way.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 06, 2020, 02:03:51 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 06, 2020, 12:39:07 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 06, 2020, 08:24:46 AM
Harkless, Kabungele and a #1

There - not that hard

Hey, NOTHING TO IT.

Your judgement is second to none.

What dont you like?

Are you willing to bypass the first rounder for Morris - and just hope we re-sign him?

Too bad the Portis deal (second year op) wasnt the same for MMSr.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 06, 2020, 02:06:29 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 06, 2020, 01:59:16 PM
Couldn't we find a better deal than a solid role player on an expiring contract, a pick around 25 or so, and a guy his mother loves.  (currently La Clips are tied for the 3rd most W's).


Kabungele has some skilz.  17-10 with 2 blocks in G league

After poking around, if this was all there was - I'd likely pull the trigger

Morris says he wants to stay.  I dont know - maybe we negotiate with him now - see how expensive it would be.  Usually it isnt done this way.

No doubt.  And related to Dikembe Mutumbo, speaking of players the Knicks brought on and then jerked around. 

To which I would say....so fucking what. 

Luke Kornet was playing really well in G League as well, wasn't he. 

MORRIS IS A FUCKING ALL-STAR. 

Come to the Knicks. 

Play like an all-star. 

Then we'll trade you for table scraps. 

(http://rmpraino.weebly.com/uploads/5/3/0/0/53006983/head17_orig.jpg)

"The small details, Ralph." 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 06, 2020, 02:12:39 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 06, 2020, 02:03:51 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 06, 2020, 12:39:07 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 06, 2020, 08:24:46 AM
Harkless, Kabungele and a #1

There - not that hard

Hey, NOTHING TO IT.

Your judgement is second to none.

What dont you like?

Are you willing to bypass the first rounder for Morris - and just hope we re-sign him?

Too bad the Portis deal (second year op) wasnt the same for MMSr.

Seriously?

The fucking #25 pick?

Seriously? 

For an all-star who wants to be here?

Why, because he might want to get paid next summer?

You are aware that we are currently sitting on the #33 pick in the draft from the Hernan-Gomez trade, speaking of Moe Harkless. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 06, 2020, 02:30:38 PM
First, no one would blink if Knicks traded a vet on a one year contract.  Especially if it looked to be part of a youth/rebuild plan.  I would offer however that the stench from the Melo, KZ and Noah disengagements still hasn't lifted.

Next, Craw was a sloppy gunner with an AND1 mentality and atrocious defense.  You might have fond memories of his late career resurgence as a 6th Man gunner.  But for the Knix he refused to come off the bench, acted like a punk and sulked.  When we traded him to GSW he had a terrible year.  Then he had two bounce back years with ATL when he finally was willing to come off the bench.  Followed by a terrible year in POR (38% FG & 31% on 3's).  And then became a bench fixture in LAC.
Craw for his career 41% FG and 35% on 3's and consistently bad D.

I've said before that Ariza should have been a 10-15 year Knick.  But he actually played defense, was athletic, had a burgeoning offensive game which for some reason irked Larry Brown.

I've never understood Brown crapping on Ariza, Starbury dismissing Frye, Melo poopooing Jeremy Lin.  Horny banishing Noah; Phil running down Melo.  A problem in Knickland when teammates and coaches and execs don't work as a team and pull for each other.  For all his faults, Fizz did seem to instill some camraderie.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 06, 2020, 03:03:55 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 06, 2020, 02:30:38 PM
First, no one would blink if Knicks traded a vet on a one year contract.  Especially if it looked to be part of a youth/rebuild plan.  I would offer however that the stench from the Melo, KZ and Noah disengagements still hasn't lifted.

Next, Craw was a sloppy gunner with an AND1 mentality and atrocious defense.  You might have fond memories of his late career resurgence as a 6th Man gunner.  But for the Knix he refused to come off the bench, acted like a punk and sulked.  When we traded him to GSW he had a terrible year.  Then he had two bounce back years with ATL when he finally was willing to come off the bench.  Followed by a terrible year in POR (38% FG & 31% on 3's).  And then became a bench fixture in LAC.
Craw for his career 41% FG and 35% on 3's and consistently bad D.

I've said before that Ariza should have been a 10-15 year Knick.  But he actually played defense, was athletic, had a burgeoning offensive game which for some reason irked Larry Brown.

I've never understood Brown crapping on Ariza, Starbury dismissing Frye, Melo poopooing Jeremy Lin.  Horny banishing Noah; Phil running down Melo.  A problem in Knickland when teammates and coaches and execs don't work as a team and pull for each other.  For all his faults, Fizz did seem to instill some camraderie.

Point taken. 

WTF?

ADDENDUM:  Yes, a 41% shooter in his final full season as a Knick.  Is it worth noting that in JC's final full year as a Knick [2007-2008] he averaged 20.6 ppg, shot .864% from the FT Line, and tallied 5.0 assists and 1.0 steal a game on a Knicks team where Marbury and Curry were spinning out of earth orbit.  And that in 2008-2009, both he and Zach Randolph were playing well when Donnie Walsh was inspired to dump both Jamal and Zach, for what exactly.  But then, Donnie also was inspired to trade David Lee rather than give him a contract, for which he received in return, a cripple, an undersized-no offense center with a faulty heartbeat, and a washout prospect.  Thus clearing cap space for LeBron.  COUGH.  Meanwhile, Jamal and Zach and David had productive NBA careers. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 06, 2020, 03:44:17 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 06, 2020, 03:03:55 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 06, 2020, 02:30:38 PM
For all his faults, Fizz did seem to instill some camraderie.[/b][/i][/color]

Point taken. 

WTF?

More to the point:

WFC, lol, this ain't no care bear party for 5-year-olds, keeps the worst players happy while alienating the only ones that matter...or who have a brain? Ain't no good points with the worst fucking coach in NBA history.


*** who bought the stale cheese for how long? lesterluv could have saved you the trouble after week one...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 06, 2020, 03:47:37 PM
BTW, speaking of historically awful, last night's second quarter was a disgrace, perfect exposition of Adam Silver's no defense allowed 150 points per game preferred "product"...don't begrudge anyone their techs even though they helped lead to our loss..horrible ref shit..the no-touch-allowed basketball freaked everyone out for at least two quarters
Title: Dawg GONE
Post by: chipstern on January 06, 2020, 04:40:39 PM
Quote from: lesterdog on January 06, 2020, 03:47:37 PM
BTW, speaking of historically awful, last night's second quarter was a disgrace, perfect exposition of Adam Silver's no defense allowed 150 points per game preferred "product"...don't begrudge anyone their techs even though they helped lead to our loss..horrible ref shit..the no-touch-allowed basketball freaked everyone out for at least two quarters

What can you do?

It's bullshit, but, it's all part of the FANS WANT TO SEE OFFENSE shtick.

Me, I reckon I'm not the only one who has fond memories of Pat Riley and his "ugly" brand of bully ball, of tough defense, hard fouls, hand checking. 

Knicks championships were built on a defensive foundation. 

YAWN, right? 

Next time you hear Clyde discussing Jerry Sloan, check out the respect and reverence (and FEAR) in his recollections. 

PS: Easy Opportunities.  The Holzman Knicks.  The Auerbach Celtics.  Roll that around on your tongue.  As per the modern game, one of the things which CONTINUES to impress me about DEVIN BOOKER, besides his obvious all-around skill set and competitive verve, is that HE TAKES WHAT THE DEFENSE GIVES HIM, and is not obsessed with this bullshit analytic which holds that two-point shots are not only unproductive compared to treys, but a mis-use of offensive sets.  Color me STOOPID (feel free to jump in, people), but anytime the ball goes into the hoop that is a good thing, is it not, and part of the art and science of the hoops DAWG & I grew up enjoying, was when skilled individuals and their team mates worked to create EASY OPPORTUNITIES. 

PPS: I remember somebody pooh poohing the Big O, and dismissing how ALL OSCAR ROBERTSON DOES is back his man in and shoot a short jumper or get fouled and go to the charity stripe.  Well...DUH.  How BORING.  Like Devin Booker, Oscar was a solid 6'5" 205-201 pounds of MAN.  For the first EIGHT FUCKING YEARS of the Big O's career, for all intents and purposes, he was good for 30 points a night, and ten assists, getting to the charity strip 10-11-12 times a night, night in and night out, and converting FTs at an 85% clip--and he would get to the charity stripe like 800-900 times a fucking season for the first 7 years of his career.  HELLO.  That's HOOPS.  Oh, and for the first five years of his career, for all intents and purposes, the Big O averaged a triple double, and you could mark him down for 30-10-10 a game. 

PPPS: Now Devin doesn't get to the charity stripe with BIG O regularity, but last season in 64 games, he converted 393-454 for an .866%, and this season, in only 33 games, he is 194-213 for a 911%.  And while only a paltry, by today's analytics, 60-167 from the 3-pt stripe, he has connected on 242-428 from 2-pt, which translates to a .558% shooting percentage.  Which translates to 26.0 ppg, 3.8 rebounds, and 6.5 assists.  THAT MY FRIENDS, IS A BALLER. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 06, 2020, 05:18:48 PM
Luke Kornet was playing really well in G League as well, wasn't he.


and now is a 4.5 mil a year player that we want back

You DO realize Morris is not an asset beyond May, right?  What?  You want to sign and trade him?  Not sure we can even do that?  Play him out and gte nothing if you wish.  To me that is poor management.
Title: WE WANT HIM BACK
Post by: chipstern on January 06, 2020, 05:33:07 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 06, 2020, 05:18:48 PM
Luke Kornet was playing really well in G League as well, wasn't he.


and now is a 4.5 mil a year player that we want back

You DO realize Morris is not an asset beyond May, right?  What?  You want to sign and trade him?  Not sure we can even do that?  Play him out and gte nothing if you wish.  To me that is poor management.

Hey, Bank, you want a piece of this? 

[Cough]

Who can argue with irrefutable facts such as these. 

Oh, by the by...

Luke is a 2.25 million a year player who is stuffing the stat line with a whopping 2.7 points and 1.8 rebounds, while posting a .241% based on 7-out of-29 makes from trey (over a whopping 8.9 minutes a game, one hastens to add). 

And we WANT HIM BACK?  Says who?  Based on his .378 FG% under Coach Fizz (now down to .340% as a Bull)?     

The only one who "wants him back" is our worthy constituent Facil, who floated the notion vis a vis one of his fanciful trade scenarios.  Hardly a ringing endorsement from Knicks management, interesting notion though it might be here on Elba. 

Meanwhile, your unsubstantiated presumption is that we are going to lose MM come May 2020 for nada, so we might as well just trade him now for whatever bag of shit we are offered. 

Good management, that...my bad.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 06, 2020, 05:43:36 PM
Bag of shit?

You're hopeless.
Title: E Jack, U Late
Post by: chipstern on January 06, 2020, 06:07:26 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 06, 2020, 05:43:36 PM
Bag of shit?

You're hopeless.

Moe Harkless gets your dick hard? 

(http://38.media.tumblr.com/fcb820c3426473228122a27f8be374c9/tumblr_n81moshHaS1td73xio1_400.gif)

Apparently you are easily aroused. 

We''ll have to update your moniker from Kiid Carter to KIID CONDOM. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zj5A7W-0zPY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zj5A7W-0zPY)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 06, 2020, 06:13:02 PM
Unless the team goes on a crazy tear, Marcus Morris is not making the all star team. Lets just stop with that. Lets say there’s a number that will keep him with the Knicks, hopefully the management can verbally commit and we can retain him for cap space, say 3 years at a flat 20 mil and a 4 of the same with 6 mil guaranteed.

Otherwise, I’d like someone who is or can become a better defender at his position down the line, heck even if he stays I’d like that.

Smith and or Ellington moved, preferably for a big is where we should be focused.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 06, 2020, 06:21:36 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 06, 2020, 06:13:02 PM
Unless the team goes on a crazy tear, Marcus Morris is not making the all star team. Lets just stop with that. Lets say there’s a number that will keep him with the Knicks, hopefully the management can verbally commit and we can retain him for cap space, say 3 years at a flat 20 mil and a 4 of the same with 6 mil guaranteed.

Otherwise, I’d like someone who is or can become a better defender at his position down the line, heck even if he stays I’d like that.

Smith and or Ellington moved, preferably for a big is where we should be focused.

Like a rim protector?

Okay.  Who you have in mind.  And let's suggest that Kornet is not a reasonable return for Dennis Smith.  I'm sure Kiid would sign off on him or Cole Aldrich. 

Smith & Ellington for Gorgui Dieng and a second rounder work for you, Trader Facil?  Timmy Hardaway type numbers for two years?  Worth it? 

Alonzo Trier for Harry Giles?

G
33

PTS
19.1

TRB
5.5

AST
1.5

FG%

43.8

FG3%

46.9

FT%

83.0

Those sure seem like all-star numbers to me, particularly 46.9% from THREE [90-192 is surely impressive on a team where the opposing defense is going to be looking to crowd him off the line] but we concede your point about the Knicks W-L% kind of dimming MM's luster.
Title: Re: E Jack, U Late
Post by: facilitatorn on January 06, 2020, 06:29:55 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 06, 2020, 06:07:26 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 06, 2020, 05:43:36 PM
Bag of shit?

You're hopeless.

Moe Harkless gets your dick hard? 

(http://38.media.tumblr.com/fcb820c3426473228122a27f8be374c9/tumblr_n81moshHaS1td73xio1_400.gif)

Apparently you are easily aroused. 

We''ll have to update your moniker from Kiid Carter to KIID CONDOM. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zj5A7W-0zPY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zj5A7W-0zPY)

I actually like the deal.

I admit I like Harkless better than most, but he’s UFA the same way Morris is.

Morris is definitely the better player, but if for taking the lesser rental we get Kapengele and a late first rounder, I’d tool around in the Kia till the season runs out.

Take a look at this kid. He hits his percentages with the Bigtime Clippers when he’s seen time.

https://youtu.be/5Tma9U7tLIo (https://youtu.be/5Tma9U7tLIo)

You get two rolls of the dice for an irrelevant downgrade.

Morris going to chase a ring doesn’t preclude him coming back.
Title: No Moe
Post by: chipstern on January 06, 2020, 06:40:57 PM
So, a Moe rental, for the Big Kid's "potential" and a later first rounder. 

Yes, the kid look interesting.  As a SHOOTER.  What exactly types him as a rim protector? 

I have zero use for Harkless. 

Not feeling it.  Even in the unlikely event we could get some more picks out of it. 

I'd rather roll the dice on re-connecting with MM.  He would surely be a fine fit with the Clippers.  But would get kind of crowded in their front court with KL & PG at SF-SG and MH at PF-C and Zubac at C-PF. 

See what else you can come up with. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 06, 2020, 07:36:57 PM
Moe Harkless gets your dick hard?


Nope

Clippers make out pretty well on this deal.  Harkless just an OK contributor (I have always said) and Morris is clearly better.

I am fine with your stance of taking a run at the 8th slot (currently 6 loss column games back)

Rock on, Bigtime.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 06, 2020, 07:51:32 PM
I actually think this is a deal LAC might say no to.

Hark is a work ethic vet who knows the system and makes no demands.  Even if they add a starting forward better than him, Mo would be a valuable reserve

For now their move seems to give more and more time to Harrell - even if he isnt elevated to starting five (keep an eye on that)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 06, 2020, 07:56:15 PM
Wash putting the screws to Celts

Brooklyn continues to sink like a stone.
Title: Luke Fucking Kornet
Post by: lesterluv on January 06, 2020, 10:09:20 PM
Here's all I'm ever going to say about Luke Kornet.

Right now the Bulls are in the third against the Mavs. They've played 10 players. They're a pretty bad fucking team. Luke can't sniff the floor.

I wish him a good career, in the NBA, in the G league, in Greece, wherever he ends up.

But I never want to see him in a Knick uni again, because if I do, he's gonna remind me of a coach who said "I have to start Luke Kornet, right fucking now." A coach who was so bad he will go down in history, real history, like FOREVER history, as the worst Knick coach ever (I really don't believe we will see the likes of that bad, ever again, even if Dolan and his son's sons own the team FOREVER.)

**and it was a move that was reallllllly really bad for "camaraderie", except for the camaraderie of 6 day G league call up guy scrubs, it was a move that said to basketball players and winning types, we don't give a fuck about earning minutes, we don't give a fuck about playing winning basketball, we just are going to be the fucking sick joke of a sick fuck fuck
Title: Hey Bank
Post by: carlos123 on January 06, 2020, 10:13:50 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 06, 2020, 07:56:15 PM
Wash putting the screws to Celts

Brooklyn continues to sink like a stone.

Bank, Chico also wants to point out that Tatum only had 17 points, and Fultz made 25 vs the Nets.

Just saving him research time 😳

Happy New Year and playoffs!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 06, 2020, 10:56:22 PM
...and Ball had 21, 8 and 7- 4th straight game of 20+
Title: Re: Luke Fucking Kornet
Post by: chipstern on January 07, 2020, 12:48:08 AM
Quote from: lesterdog on January 06, 2020, 10:09:20 PM
Here's all I'm ever going to say about Luke Kornet.

Right now the Bulls are in the third against the Mavs. They've played 10 players. They're a pretty bad fucking team. Luke can't sniff the floor.

I wish him a good career, in the NBA, in the G league, in Greece, wherever he ends up.

But I never want to see him in a Knick uni again, because if I do, he's gonna remind me of a coach who said "I have to start Luke Kornet, right fucking now." A coach who was so bad he will go down in history, real history, like FOREVER history, as the worst Knick coach ever (I really don't believe we will see the likes of that bad, ever again, even if Dolan and his son's sons own the team FOREVER.)

**and it was a move that was reallllllly really bad for "camaraderie", except for the camaraderie of 6 day G league call up guy scrubs, it was a move that said to basketball players and winning types, we don't give a fuck about earning minutes, we don't give a fuck about playing winning basketball, we just are going to be the fucking sick joke of a sick fuck fuck

So let it be written...

(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/438/693/f80.jpg)

So let it be done...

Had to get rid of Kanter to make room for Kornet's impeccable defense.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 07, 2020, 03:50:01 AM
Kornet joined the Sr. Knix and starting bombing in 3's.  Then he started playing some feisty long-armed interior D.  But his outside shot went south.  But if he can combine those elements he could be a solid backup Big.  I'm not sure where he's at currently but I think he had some elbow (shoulder?) trouble.  We spent last year developing a lot of marginal players and then jettisoned them all.  I would have liked Kornet back.  He's just 24 and filling out his frame some.  CHI is a mess (but so are we).  No real need to trade for Kornet, but if he was thrown in he could prove useful. 

I dislike this analysis that if a guy isn't producing now he never will and is garbage.  You'll miss out on many good players that way.  I'm always looking for Buy Low candidates who can blossom.  Most here only want a player after he has blown up and is not available or pricey/hard to get.  Have to look at the skill set and potential.  I forget my full current list of underrated guys or guys not playing who could break out, but I'd keep an eye on Giles and DJ Wilson, who probably could be had cheaply.

Otherwise Mohawk is a solid role player who sets screens, rebounds, hustles.  A nice complementary piece best suited to backup F.  His value is mostly on a team that has quality starters/scorers and needs defense and glue.  Kind of like POR where he was.  A good workhorse no-stat teammate.  Not well-suited for a rebuilding team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on January 07, 2020, 09:52:52 AM
The crazy thing is the knicks has shooters, now we need a go to scorer, somebody like a Demar Derozan type.  A player that is not just jumpers but can get to the rim at random, someone when those 3,s arent fallen can go to the basket and take 2 points.  I thought D. Smith would be that guy but he look like another little kitty who take the pressures of losing in NY.  Oh well back to the drawing board.  Who got this year draft prospects. 
Title: Re: There Ain't No There There
Post by: lesterluv on January 07, 2020, 11:26:37 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 07, 2020, 03:50:01 AM

I dislike this analysis that if a guy isn't producing now he never will and is garbage. 

And that's not what I was saying. But you could surmise first week — at least that's what I surmised — that once the word got around that this awkward tall guy who nobody had seen much can nail a wide open three folks would stick a hand in his face, and he probably wouldn't hit 'em no more, and word got around and he doesn't.

I wish him well. Bring him back? So little interest in thinking about 12th guys when this team needs 1-2-3 guys. Especially retread 12th guys. 12th guys are never in short supply, and if he ever becomes a 6-7-8- guy my name for this new decade ain't lesterluv.


**Jaqd, RJ is supposed to be our Demar Derozan type and he's showing flashes and we will just see.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 07, 2020, 03:21:31 PM
Marquis Chriss has hit waivers so GS can keep Bowman. Got 7 pts, 5 boards, and a block in 17 mins per game for the Dubs.

Waive Ellington and claim Chriss. That alone will help balance the team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 07, 2020, 04:24:03 PM
And that's not what I was saying. But you could surmise first week — at least that's what I surmised — that once the word got around that this awkward tall guy who nobody had seen much can nail a wide open three folks would stick a hand in his face, and he probably wouldn't hit 'em no more, and word got around and he doesn't.


heh


thanks for the chuckle
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 07, 2020, 04:25:27 PM
Waive Ellington and claim Chriss. That alone will help balance the team.


Sure.  I will do that right away

Then maybe you will explain the cost/benefit for us
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 07, 2020, 05:11:26 PM
I’ll try Kid

First, Barrett, Bullock, Dotson, and Trier all are in line for minutes ahead of him at shooting guard. He can only play shooting guard. He’s been a great vet help and stabilizer through the team’s tumult so far. If he wants to be a player and not a Herb Williams, he could take a buyout giving us back what he’d get signing for the remainder for the minimum elsewhere.

Second, this is a far more likely and easier thing to do than trading him for an asset to get a team to absorb the back half of his 8 million dollar contract.

Third, you don’t hear any rumors of teams interested in Wayne Ellington on the deal he’s signed for as you do for Smith, Portis, and Morris.

Those are the main arguments for why waive Wayne.

What did carrying five shooting guards do to the rest of our roster?

First, we have one real center in Mitch, two fake centers in Bobby and Taj, and Randle who really needs to just be our power forward. We play all our bigs every game while three or four guards never see the floor. That’s the main argument for finding serviceable front court help.

Chriss is a young big with good tools who puts up promising numbers in short minutes and is worthy of a look based on his rebound and block rate, positive assist to TO ratio, shooting percentage, decent size, bounciness and good hands. Teach him what you can and if it takes, keep him at a low money deal, and if it don’t, let him walk with no regrets.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 07, 2020, 05:21:25 PM
Warriors stream dude reacts to the Chriss move.

http://youtu.be/8Zq6Dt_sUaA (http://youtu.be/8Zq6Dt_sUaA)

Has some choice comments on why the waive baffled him from a basketball sense.

I wasn’t so caught up on Chriss, though I liked him in Phoenix as a pup.

If half of what this guy says is true, sign me up. He can help us.
Title: Re: There Ain't No There There
Post by: carlos123 on January 07, 2020, 10:39:54 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on January 07, 2020, 11:26:37 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 07, 2020, 03:50:01 AM

I dislike this analysis that if a guy isn't producing now he never will and is garbage. 

And that's not what I was saying. But you could surmise first week — at least that's what I surmised — that once the word got around that this awkward tall guy who nobody had seen much can nail a wide open three folks would stick a hand in his face, and he probably wouldn't hit 'em no more, and word got around and he doesn't.

I wish him well. Bring him back? So little interest in thinking about 12th guys when this team needs 1-2-3 guys. Especially retread 12th guys. 12th guys are never in short supply, and if he ever becomes a 6-7-8- guy my name for this new decade ain't lesterluv.


**Jaqd, RJ is supposed to be our Demar Derozan type and he's showing flashes and we will just see.

Hey Les, your new name requires a new pic of a nice smiling pussydog and no more "evil type", you're full of LUV now.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/t3W_eIoDpx7oTf8zKOMhD9Oqvmfg5KNSxCOttqT98APT2uVVhY-GrlI_LUhRcfmhEYOOlIMVBg_Ite0_qc7eD-mkYNYmo1Lhk1PDy_U5WlLd6Y0Tb0-Ukz7RZch8dBWuBNuW6tgcw4_V3K8tgCWuu0mt3TqiVqBiYOzxdbc-nntRSOKkN1dDKP6AyTqoTABS-TNqllKqUeP0ad9osPSy4vvF4l5GXeUwR8cy3gYaTN1CSLupqSwUL2-hW0JCYgdpJBnU-bV5wT5T5Dn5iJX6b73dt7-KZCb4RWJz98UbvQ5M5GSnMv7b2w926p45WUlyszl7C0EljdRCVnuX-ud8erZVq0kRXQgD3EnM32e0SGsPeeY6_zZkqdRnfOBy7CXHoMYQNuNNOaqofHvGIVRKEsYg3fLRr-gG6rzaL6jN_ZgOHzzqZ1YxFE9Nc_JWLqx-nmSiKtkockKgDzS5mK5muJI983Iynf2sb0NlCmUEcchgDwvHEPVxsGF4POMkfSgdgnpbDYT_5uuAP82ea0Hbf3SBrmvniJbmr-6jP9_pSt6Ck97FiOOJXWIYNkrwW3wxbt6dI1ZuRt3tI7upg-A__TDFAuDrkif-HFMzog26_0loDfR5l_eLmJhOWRLCpl1YSodvmC55LIbFi7wP9xdO6kd0FtWWg6uCGdNnGeq8S7cCsWewcyqSo8ET1iYrNC5xcOuuh6s33zZZ4eU-fTSSMVEfCA8IH8kpEfAHL8KnxTscBps=w720-h917-no)

FULL OF LUV
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 07, 2020, 11:19:10 PM
Knicks looking both dull and dreadful in this one.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 07, 2020, 11:31:04 PM
I know Knox hasn't been playing lately, but Jesus. After summer ball and preseason, I thought he showed development in his offensive game.

Now that's nowhere to be seen. With each game he seems to be sliding backward.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 08, 2020, 03:31:51 AM
I'd drop Duke Ellington for Chriss.  A vet we don't need (especially with Bullock back) for a bouncy yute.  I thought Chriss looked totally lost but incredibly bouncy in PHX.  Just had no discernible game and no shot.  He bounced around to a few teams and became g-leagured.  But he's performed well for GS in limited minutes and the word is he's been a really good teammate.  Looks like he's starting to get it.  Pogo-stick athlete.
I'd rather see Chriss fly around and try to block shots than Ellington clank 3's.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 08, 2020, 03:40:07 AM
I've kind of soured on Knox.  I like his build and he seems committed.  But he's got so much to work on, you have to wonder when he's going to become an average player.  I mean, there's really nothing that he does well at this point.  Really he's below average in every skill set.  Maybe he becomes decent/good around age 25.  Can we wait that long?  Should we?  Can he actually just bloom over one Summer? 

Looks more like a long slow process to me.  I'm still pulling for him and would keep him.  But I've gone from bullish to shrug.  There have been a lot of games under the new coach where Knox puts up marginal stats but has a pretty good +/-, especially relative to the team play.  What to do with Knox?  Tell him he gets pulled anytime his motor flags?  Force him to play attentive D and not worry about the rest?  Give him a handful of Gatorade games in Westchester?  Hell, Knix might be best off putting Jr. SMith, Knox and Dot in the burbs and let them develop chemistry and aggression.

Anywho, I'm not giving up on Knox.  Still like him and his potential, but he needs to show out more that he can contribute in the NBofA.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 08, 2020, 07:37:52 AM
Melo went 5-8 on 3's and hit a game winner, so POR won in TOR despite being behind all game (their last lead before the final shot was at 4-3).  Just POR's 2nd W v a team with a winning record.  The previous W was v. a 2-1 DAL team way back when it was warm.

All those good Knick shooters lit it up for 87 Points.
4-20 on 3's.  39% overall and barely 1/2 our FT's.

I think a key problem (besides no lead dog, no starting caliber PG) is that almost all of our players are inconsistent.  Randle can string together maybe 3 or 4 good games then revert.  Portis is challenging Tim Jr for the Most Inconsistent Award.  RJB and Knox are pups but wildly erratic.   Payton and Franc = inconsistent.  Ellington and Bullock journeymen due to their sometimes production.  The only consistent players we have are Contract Mofo Morris & steady okay Taj.  Everyone else is a big ? every night.

Aside from Morris, all of our vets are up-and-down shooters (and overall players).  Less surprisingly, all of our yute as well.  So while some guys like Portis have solid shooting numbers it mostly comes as the average of one very good game and two stinkers.  Knox, Ellington, Bullock can nail 3's some nights.  Randle and RJB occasionally.  But this isn't reliable output. 

This season, Morris and Trier shoot well.  That's it.  And Trier barely plays.  (Mitch is fantastic around the rim, but doesn't "shoot" or score outside of 5')
Title: For Chriss Sake
Post by: chipstern on January 08, 2020, 11:37:16 AM
As per usual, Knicks fans in pursuit of shiny abjects on those greener grassy knolls. 

With all due respect to BoD and Facil, and with requisite respect to the abject of their affliction, fuck MC.  Not like he played wretchedly for GS, but if he were such a fucking bonanza, why has he been jettisoned. 

By all means, let's further inhibit Kevin Knox's development by bringing in a journeyman PF just bounced from his fourth team.  And in the unlikely event we do not offload Bobby Portis, leave us further cut into his minutes.   

Also, far be  it for me to suggest a less "sexy" reality, but we have this Kenny Wooten kid in Westchester who brings great energy, uncommon hops and defensive tenacity (blocking 3.5 shots a game). 

Obviously his is a raw and limited game, offensively, but much of the skill set he brings parallels that of our own Mitchell Robinson.  Not like we have a surplus of defensive stoppers.  Would make more sense for him to complement MR and to compete in practice with Knox the Younger, Taj and Mitchell. 

If, indeed, as all indicators suggest, and we are about to hold a fire sale on Smith, Portis, Ellington, ______________, leave us consider taking stock of our puppies, and giving the likes of Knox and Wooten and Trier and Allen the opportunity to get meaningful minutes, and to live out their struggles in NBA floor time. 

Juke Cornet?

Marquee Jizz?

(https://media1.giphy.com/media/xUOxfeS1G9NTxN02Ag/giphy.gif)

SERIOUSLY? 

(https://media3.giphy.com/media/gPYrgi7qQ1M6k/giphy.gif)

Oy vey. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 08, 2020, 12:25:49 PM
We're 10-27, but don't have minutes to take a look at a young athletic guy who has rebounded at an impressive clip for GS.
Chriss put up a double-double v. NY with 3 blocks in mid-Dec.  He looked impressive and active ... at least compared to us.
Ellington is useless for us, while we'd be doing him a solid, letting him try to hook on with a playoff team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 08, 2020, 12:45:52 PM
Bo gets it.

The Kid was an 8th overall pick who spent his first couple of NBA years growing into his body. He’s absorbed and applied a decent chunk of Kerr’s coaching. He’s a 4-5 who sizes in between Portis and Taj. He’d threaten their minutes, which are not always of the best, rather than those of our pups.  Good teams take advantage of opportunities like this.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 08, 2020, 02:00:08 PM
Yes

Get him

Then we can start

Frank, RJ, Knox, Chriss, Mitch

the last 30 games
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 08, 2020, 02:55:54 PM
You get a decent offer for Bobby or you feel disinclined to bring Taj back for 10 mil or someone gets hurt it would be nice to have a next man up. Raab is probably a lot more game ready than Wooten, but more strength and depth up front from someone who has currently produced his way on to a roster, even if it is as bad as ours is a sensible move.

He’s better in every statistical way than Taj in identical minutes which might indicate that he’s better suited to a role in which Taj, despite his skill and experience finds himself overmatched.

Payton RJ Marcus Randle and Mitch could start with Chriss Portis Knox Bullock and Frank first off the bench and Taj Dot Trier and Allen seeing occasional spot minutes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 08, 2020, 03:26:17 PM
Without Morris, Knix looked terrible v LAL.
Most of the shots they got were the ones Lakes wanted them to take.  Taj midrangers, Randle outside J's, Bullock from wherever.
Not sure why Bullock was starting or guarding LeBJ. Seemed the strategy was to try to confuse Lebron by leaving him open.
A Very Bradley and Granny Deen schooled our guards with backdoor cuts.  Any time Knix got in the paint, Lakes just suffocated them.
Randle was sloppy on both ends.
Maybe we were just outmatched, but the coaching didn't impress.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 08, 2020, 03:47:34 PM
I like Taj

If someone wants him, fine.  If not I favor he starts the rest of the way
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 08, 2020, 03:50:08 PM
Bullock earned the start.  Tough foe, for all the players.  Fun team to watch in the spring, no doubt.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 08, 2020, 05:04:12 PM
RANDLE is out tonight - personal reasons

Morris doubtful.  Smith questionable.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 08, 2020, 05:08:48 PM
Bullock wasn’t starting. RJ had two quick fouls.

Jazz game could be rough.

9 pm East coast start.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 08, 2020, 05:20:27 PM
Several teams in touch with the Knicks recently came away with the impression that they aren’t solely focused on acquiring draft picks, expiring contracts or young players who have struggled with other teams in trades. Those teams say the Knicks have shown an interest in acquiring starter-level players who can help the team in the short-term and in future seasons, per sources. 6 hours ago – via SportsNet New York


Very interesting
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 08, 2020, 05:23:34 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 08, 2020, 05:08:48 PM
Bullock wasn’t starting. RJ had two quick fouls.

Jazz game could be rough.

9 pm East coast start.

He started, you dumb fuck

Watch a game once in a while
Title: Take a flyer, why not
Post by: Kam on January 08, 2020, 07:11:12 PM
Yes to Chriss
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 08, 2020, 07:55:26 PM
Quote
Dallas Mavericks big man Kristaps Porzingis suffered a knee injury against the Los Angeles Lakers on Dec. 29. He has missed the four games since, but reports were surfacing that the former All-Star is close to returning.

It would not be a moment too soon. The Mavs are have won two of the four games without KP, but the team has missed his rim-protecting presence significantly. Porzingis also makes life easier on the offensive end of the floor with his spacing abilities.

KP went from THE MAN in Gotham to playing Robin for Luka.  That's a nut punch.  But he's winning and we are still hunting unicorns.  Now if Mitch Robinson could develop an outside shot...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 08, 2020, 07:59:36 PM
What is Dallas winning?
Title: uhh.... games?
Post by: Kam on January 08, 2020, 08:26:28 PM
They're in the hunt for homecourt playoff seeding in the first rd
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 08, 2020, 09:03:41 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 08, 2020, 03:26:17 PM
Without Morris, Knix looked terrible v LAL.
Most of the shots they got were the ones Lakes wanted them to take.  Taj midrangers, Randle outside J's, Bullock from wherever.
Not sure why Bullock was starting or guarding LeBJ. Seemed the strategy was to try to confuse Lebron by leaving him open.
A Very Bradley and Granny Deen schooled our guards with backdoor cuts.  Any time Knix got in the paint, Lakes just suffocated them.
Randle was sloppy on both ends.
Maybe we were just outmatched, but the coaching didn't impress.

Yeah, we plain stunk.

Similar to the Heat game that I saw up close. Felt embarrassing. That Washington Generals thing.

Got to at least be competitive. Maybe we'll get a surprise tonight.

(and maybe Donald will resign on his own accord)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 08, 2020, 09:35:45 PM
The first Knick shot was Randle from 20.
2nd or 3rd possession featured Randle bringing the ball upcourt.
 A lot of Taj with the ball.  Bullock "guarding" LeBron.
The Lake announcers were laughing at the Knix not guarding LeBJ outside.  It took them a while to realize that giving LeBJ open 3's was the actual strategy and not just sloppy D.
Bullock going from out to starter seemed like a classic Fizz move.

I found Knix/Malone baffling on both ends.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 08, 2020, 09:39:34 PM
Bullock was playing well.  Why is this an issue?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 08, 2020, 09:50:09 PM
So start him to guard LeBJ.
Sure worked well . . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 08, 2020, 10:10:21 PM
Yeah, we have some players out, but UTEs shooting 65% at the half?!?

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 08, 2020, 10:24:01 PM
the coaching is getting a little .... odd

Frankie the best Knick on the floor tonight, when he checked out , we were back to within five or six, by the time he checks back in, we will be down 30

on a night when our defense is getting ...TORCHED
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 08, 2020, 10:28:07 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 08, 2020, 10:10:21 PM
Yeah, we have some players out, but UTEs shooting 65% at the half?!?

All layups and 3-pointers.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 08, 2020, 10:47:45 PM
Good night for Tatum
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 08, 2020, 10:50:52 PM
Happy for Frank

10 straight games in single digits.  Has a chance tonight.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 08, 2020, 10:58:14 PM
21 years old. Nobody has had an easy possession checked by him. Gonna be one helluva 24 year old.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 09, 2020, 03:58:56 AM
Wiz starters scored 28 and the bex=nch 61.  Yeah, they still got crushed.  But how long until you promote those bench guys to starting.  They'd been killing it while the starters flail.

Since this is the Bizarro Wizards, the 1st unit is really the normal 2nd unit and the 2nd unit is the 3rd.    But who cares?  The team sucks with bench guys Mahinmi and Isaiah Thomas starting, so don't start them.  Start  Ish Smith, Paceniks,and especially Troy Brown who is rebounding like Westbrook and scoring most nights.  They've earned the chance.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 09, 2020, 08:21:17 AM
McRae had been better til last night

Thomas had his moments.

Intrigued a bit by the big kid.  Haven't seen him yet.  Not likely at a Wagner level.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 09, 2020, 08:38:19 AM
All Star ballot

https://vote.nba.com/en/search

Good place to see everyone's stats listed on one page - sorted by points scored

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 09, 2020, 09:03:18 AM
My selections

Ben S, Lowry, Butler, Giannis, Embiid

Luka, James H, Kawhi, AD, Rudy G
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 09, 2020, 09:38:26 AM
MUDIAY sure looked good first and second quarter
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 09, 2020, 09:44:38 AM
On what planet - given what has occurred, were Knicks correct in letting Mudiay go?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 09, 2020, 09:53:11 AM
Frankie the best Knick on the floor tonight, when he checked out , we were back to within five or six, by the time he checks back in, we will be down 30


I'd have liked to see Frank put back in at 48-64, 2:30 left in the second.

We ended up at 53-72
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 09, 2020, 01:53:33 PM
Re:  Drummond.Hayward


https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2870459-nba-trade-buzz-if-celtics-want-andre-drummond-itll-cost-them-gordon-hayward
Title: MUDIAY
Post by: chipstern on January 09, 2020, 04:09:32 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 09, 2020, 09:44:38 AM
On what planet - given what has occurred, were Knicks correct in letting Mudiay go?

WORD

Though leave us give Jazz coaching staff some big credit for facilitating his growth. 

Better team, better team mates, coherent system, roster stability, and again, another level of coaching. 

Of all the Knicks rehabs, Mudiay was the one I wanted to keep. 

Yes, his defense was suspect, but he grew so much as a penetrator and distributor and an outside shooter, plus improved his fitness and stamina, building upon his powerful body frame. 

WTF? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 09, 2020, 04:42:08 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 09, 2020, 01:53:33 PM
Re:  Drummond.Hayward


https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2870459-nba-trade-buzz-if-celtics-want-andre-drummond-itll-cost-them-gordon-hayward

Celtics own their own pick in 2020.

They own the Bucks # 1 for 2020.

They also have the Grizzlies #1, top 7 protected in 2020, unprotected in 2021. 

https://www.nbadraft.net/nba-mock-drafts/ (https://www.nbadraft.net/nba-mock-drafts/)

Grizz are currently 16-22, a game out of the 8th playoff spot, so presently at #14 in the NBA Mock Draft lockup, so a good chance the pick conveys to the Celtics this summer. 

NYETS are currently 16-20. 

So Ainge is in position to package three mid-late first rounders, to get a PF to replace Horford. 

Hayward is a splendid talent, but with Brown at SG/SF, and Tatum at SF/PF, but potentially with Drummond, Kanter, Fall, they would appear set at Center,  and Hayward is something of a redundancy. 

Robert Williams is a question mark at PF, and no Horford, presently, but otherwise, save for Theis, PF is a question mark going forward.  Lacking size and outsize skills at the 4-spot. 

Hey, maybe Ainge would turn over his #1 picks for a shot at Morris?  Not sure how if at all the cap numbers would line up. 

Drummond would appear to be a good, if expensive, match for the Celtics roster. 

"Sonny, if Pop dies, you make the deal." 
Title: Re: MUDIAY
Post by: elephant on January 09, 2020, 05:32:19 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 09, 2020, 04:09:32 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 09, 2020, 09:44:38 AM
On what planet - given what has occurred, were Knicks correct in letting Mudiay go?

WORD

Though leave us give Jazz coaching staff some big credit for facilitating his growth. 

Better team, better team mates, coherent system, roster stability, and again, another level of coaching. 

Of all the Knicks rehabs, Mudiay was the one I wanted to keep. 

Yes, his defense was suspect, but he grew so much as a penetrator and distributor and an outside shooter, plus improved his fitness and stamina, building upon his powerful body frame. 

WTF?

I wouldn't attribute it to Jazz coaching (though they're always pretty fucking impressive). I thought he was a rare example of improvement through his stay here.
Title: Re: MUDIAY
Post by: chipstern on January 09, 2020, 05:41:49 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 09, 2020, 05:32:19 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 09, 2020, 04:09:32 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 09, 2020, 09:44:38 AM
On what planet - given what has occurred, were Knicks correct in letting Mudiay go?

WORD

Though leave us give Jazz coaching staff some big credit for facilitating his growth. 

Better team, better team mates, coherent system, roster stability, and again, another level of coaching. 

Of all the Knicks rehabs, Mudiay was the one I wanted to keep. 

Yes, his defense was suspect, but he grew so much as a penetrator and distributor and an outside shooter, plus improved his fitness and stamina, building upon his powerful body frame. 

WTF?

I wouldn't attribute it to Jazz coaching (though they're always pretty fucking impressive). I thought he was a rare example of improvement through his stay here.

Fizz brought him into focus.  Vastly improved his conditioning and became an effective scorer/facilitator. 

Playing next to Donovan Mitchell, and maturing in the shadow of Mike Conley, in a winning program. 

Happy for the kid.

And BAFFLED. as per usual, with the fucking Knicks. 

Herzonja?

Kornet?

Vonleh?

Ellenson?

Meh.

Mudiay?

We could sure use him about now. 

Kam used to excoriate the Knicks for their usage of Emmanuel, and not without justification, not so much a matter of his skills, as that in prioritizing EM we were holding back the evolution of Ntilikina. 

Go fucking figure. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 09, 2020, 06:22:00 PM
Let's not go haywire. He improved a bit here, but nothing crazy. Still wouldn't want to start him on any winning team, and notice, the Jazz don't even do that with Conley out. He looked decent last night, but a lot of folks would have. Our New Father Elfrid basically took the night off defensively. The main thing that really struck me, FATTY GOT FIT. Dropped at least 15 since his exit interview here. That's cool. Personally I find season five a bit late, but good that he's finally taking himself seriously.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 09, 2020, 08:40:43 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on January 09, 2020, 06:22:00 PM
Let's not go haywire. He improved a bit here, but nothing crazy. Still wouldn't want to start him on any winning team, and notice, the Jazz don't even do that with Conley out. He looked decent last night, but a lot of folks would have. Our New Father Elfrid basically took the night off defensively. The main thing that really struck me, FATTY GOT FIT. Dropped at least 15 since his exit interview here. That's cool. Personally I find season five a bit late, but good that he's finally taking himself seriously.

Uhhhh...how can I characterize your characterization. 

How about?

WRONG

Mudiay got in top shape LAST SEASON for the Knicks. 

In 27 minutes a night he basically gave us 15-3-4 on 44% shooting, with a 77 FT%.  His 3-Pt shooting was only around 33%

He learned to finish more consistently when he got to the rack.  He was a positive player on the floor. 

Dennis Smith last season?  15-3-5 on 41% shooting, with a 57 FT%.  His 3-Pt shooting was around 29%.

GIVEN...

Mudiay is better suited to be a bench player, as he is deployed on Utah, and his minutes did impede Frank's development. 

But his departure surely put to the lie to the notion of PLAYER DEVELOPMENT.  And he could have given us a nice lift OFFENSIVELY.  He made plays and created scoring opportunities, surely at a premium on these Knicks. 

And poor Dennis utterly snake bit. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 09, 2020, 08:52:33 PM
GIVEN...

Mudiay is better suited to be a bench player, as he is deployed on Utah, and his minutes did impede Frank's development.

BONK!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 09, 2020, 08:55:03 PM
Mudiay is on a one year

Where do you think he ends up - and in what role next year?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 09, 2020, 09:04:12 PM
[Cough]

Maybe him and Kornet end up back with the Knicks. 

DONK

Seriously. 

Your guess is as good as mine. 

A team with an established defensive culture, such as Miami or San Antonio might make for a nice soft landing.  Or he might have found a home in Utah.  They have a positive competitive culture. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 09, 2020, 09:57:05 PM
There are 30 starting jobs

Shame the pups from the draft usually take some of them - ready or not

But maybe EM

a)  likes to win
b)  doesnt want the added pressure
c)  isnt chasing every buck

Playing 18-20 minutes a night is a good way to have a long career.
Title: Hey Kamster
Post by: carlos123 on January 09, 2020, 10:43:20 PM
Ur friend Enes, best player on the Cs today

E. KanterC    17 min   4-7   11 rebounds   2 assists   +11 (best of the Cs)   8 points

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/UjBc-diN4E9jqk3hMIRvO9fxZvsgc2Wn2f0Ce8GACWvca5VRVox-p1iuzy2hWZVBReK10FhLQo9MdtprEwZ9_LNsLim-euBa0pdsvF8HVXyIslLJ3dnu9YxfSftbraSGlI5DU039uYUq7UakNKcJD9llFXdjadXSQyCyqA6pImlX7Yb4Pf8r0ercsIhoJqEKWitnSlh1H0sklaelAgwnfLDk1t9tePi92SCXpx-NqgBdXrdf7uC3UjVBtN3WP7FsU4igUmSRq_677KZrENYPkLftIrrA9be-qWUuaOghWPcrOKPsKIA99Im6IWso1WxXczNPce7lRddbkDMqITk3Sj80EPbQgL5tiSZ7zw9GI3m8nNPwDNLrc4YDV6GLOm18cmyLwDnDH78KNY0YlTZoLKAyTbX6Ef6HADhtjMKsPpp59Ak6AljIWkobNL41nDopIr5T0r-1Sun7sHFzMgTCaMpKBgVOOwC6VAJ-C2CzGLAKAq-zQl_z-utpfzsm1LYDIdfO6me5W7himlpSFbBXxYOkDzb2ZQL6cZcfbPpxwuFEddR4bhWt4z1AYleEP7bhR1sGRennc-2lRKnF0gYnkLA2L-hVcI16rAGy2O9Hy0VMlazH3lFB1vfrfYSNYVKLfwlGliXkvxfm1CSS5SLNPfSFIiM6Niu9KuFhCpmoDJv2V5XxkxJzQvMjxIPx2TKdehSu5piqU93qBcEFyJliU7Sqx75k2xzSOyuUSGlIYDYrLrI=w1136-h757-no)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 09, 2020, 10:47:57 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 09, 2020, 09:57:05 PM
There are 30 starting jobs

Shame the pups from the draft usually take some of them - ready or not

But maybe EM

a)  likes to win
b)  doesnt want the added pressure
c)  isnt chasing every buck

Playing 18-20 minutes a night is a good way to have a long career.

Recognizing his limitations and shortcoming, his physical stature and solid trunk-lower body kicked in with more stamina, and playing in China, and hence missing out on playing one year for Larry Brown in Texas, really stunted his growth coming into the pros, and then Jamaal Murray came to Denver and supplanted him as the main rudder in no uncertain terms. 

He wanted to get better, and Fizz kind of doted over him...remember that bit at the end of the season, where Coach was histant to toss him out there with some collective injuries, not wanting to queer his coming free agency. 

I'm happy for him, and while I like Elfrid Payton, I'd have felt better if we kept Mudiay as part of the scrum, rather than enlisting Ellington, pro though he might be. 

Hey, OKC is doing pretty good playing Paul at the same time as Schroeder and Gigorious, or what ever the name of the stud muffin from Kentucky is they copped with Gallo and all of those additional damn draft picks they shook down the Clippers for as ransom to liberate Paul George. 

Anyway, I'm happy for the kid, and still rooting for the evolution of Snake Bit Smith who is quite likely to blossom...for another team. 
Title: Chris Paul
Post by: chipstern on January 09, 2020, 11:37:48 PM
Worth every penny. 

WOW. 

And against the Rocket no less. 

Leading a total beat down. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 09, 2020, 11:46:41 PM
Iiiiii dont think they are dealing him
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 10, 2020, 12:03:31 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 09, 2020, 11:46:41 PM
Iiiiii dont think they are dealing him

They have a chance of making some noise in the playoffs. 

Schroeder is 26, and Gilgeous-Alexander is 21. 

Nice leader, and team captain, to emulate through the summer of 2022. 

38...41...44...

They have a positive growing culture in OKC. 

An expiring 22 in Gallo this summer, though he might be a keeper. 

AND DRAFT PICKS. 

They own the less favorable of the Knicks and Nets second rounders in 2020.

And an astonishing selection of first rounders over the next 3-4 years.  First rounders and swap rights. 

And Paul to Captain for three of those. 

PS: Paul with 18-6-5-4 (with one turnover) on a night Westbrook was welcomed back home and put up 34-2-5 (and seven TOs). 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 10, 2020, 01:10:24 AM
Quote from: elephant on January 09, 2020, 05:32:19 PM
I thought he was a rare example of improvement through his stay here.

Of our reclamations and nobodaddies, everyone improved but Zonja.

Mud got better and turned himself into a legit NBA player.  When we got him, he was nearly out of the League (when he couldn't finish, defend or shoot).  Conditioning and confidence helped.  But even after improving with the Knix, nobody really wanted him, he got a 1 year $1.7M min(?) deal, and was UTA's 3rd string PG until Exum proved too fragile to play .  As noted, even with Conley out and Exum gone and no other PG, UTAH doesn't start Mudman.

Actually they have one other PG, Nigel Goss-Williams a 25 year old form Gonzaga who was a #55 pick a couple years back.  Has played 28 mins in 9 games.  I never heard of him, but maybe some 'Zaga/college hoops followers know who he is.

I prefer taking a look at Payton, rather then another year of Mud.  I still see Mud as a mistake player, and at most a backup PG.  Unfortunately, neither of them (nor Franc/Jr. Smith) can make 3's.

I do wish we had some more continuity and last year's development didn't go to waste (but it did nab us RJB, who also can't shoot).  I would have welcomed Kornet and Vonleh back.  But we brought in a slew of Bigs. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 10, 2020, 01:13:12 AM
You can see the appeal of Portis.  He has skills, he plays hard.  But he's very inconsistent and combined with crappy D, means he's frustrating and somewhat marginal.  I get the feeling Portishead needs to work on his mental approach.  Yoga, meditation, sports psychologist ... Well, that's too speculative for fans, but it's part of the athlete package ... 

I need to watch more and see just why his D is bad. 
One play v. UTA, Portis left Bogman in the far corner to double down in the paint, giving up a wide open 3 to a great shooter.  Jazz announcers laughed at that Knick faux pax (without singling out Portis).  It was a strange decision by Portis.  The interior threat wasn't great, and any rotation should have happened from elsewhere.  It's like he just got antsy.   For his gambit to work, two other Knix would have had to start rotating almost immediately when Portis decided to gamble.  It wouldn't have made sense to leave a weak shooter let alone a prime 3-baller.  You have to know the personnel and your responsibilities.

Otherwise I was amused when Portis did one of those Melo-style wind-up block attempts and just whacked KCP in the head.   Does Portis just react before he thinks, or is his thinking process flawed (ie is he thinking too much and just making bad decisions)?  Even worse, maybe it's a combination of both.

Well, at least we have higher level and more experienced castoffs than last year.   A step forward.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 10, 2020, 01:23:17 AM
OKC finds themselves in a nice middle ground.  They can keep CP3, let him mentor away this year, and probably get their young guys some playoff experience.  Then think about what to do with CP3 next year when his contract is shorter.  Otoh, they do have a Sell High moment, while CP3 is both healthy and playing well.  So gotta see what you can get before he tweaks a hammy. 

Stick with CP3 and Gallo?  Move one or both.  They both could help playoff teams.  Being a winning team and 7 seed, they can take their time.  Lotta options, but not so clear what is the best path forward.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 10, 2020, 08:30:42 AM
Nerlens Noel has had a fine season.  Free agent and will be 26 next year

Bazley is 19, Diallo and Ferguson 21

Can they keep or replace Danilo?  And Adams after next year?  Can they sign one more key guy?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 10, 2020, 08:35:25 AM
Cleveland moves ahead of us with 11th win after being down 11 at half on the road.

Love shooting 46/38/84 - great player

Bit of a breakout game for Garland
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 10, 2020, 10:04:33 AM
I guess the positive spin on our "develop & then jettison."
We were in need of players who might become starters on a quality team.
All were dice rolls. Some grew, but none looked destined to achieve that level after extensive testing.
Cleanly move on to the next more expensive group.


** And half a season later on different teams with plenty opportunity, none still look headed to that level, so wise choice to move on


*** As previously stated, I personally don't approve of last year's "plan" on any level
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 10, 2020, 12:09:17 PM
Mudiay would have stayed - and fairly cheaply.  That's the point

What was the reason he was let go - beyond needing every cent for two maxes?

I have defended mgt this year - just thought that - and Kanter - was foolish.
Title: Re: Hey Kamster
Post by: chipstern on January 10, 2020, 12:38:07 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 09, 2020, 10:43:20 PM
Ur friend Enes, best player on the Cs today

E. KanterC    17 min   4-7   11 rebounds   2 assists   +11 (best of the Cs)   8 points

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/UjBc-diN4E9jqk3hMIRvO9fxZvsgc2Wn2f0Ce8GACWvca5VRVox-p1iuzy2hWZVBReK10FhLQo9MdtprEwZ9_LNsLim-euBa0pdsvF8HVXyIslLJ3dnu9YxfSftbraSGlI5DU039uYUq7UakNKcJD9llFXdjadXSQyCyqA6pImlX7Yb4Pf8r0ercsIhoJqEKWitnSlh1H0sklaelAgwnfLDk1t9tePi92SCXpx-NqgBdXrdf7uC3UjVBtN3WP7FsU4igUmSRq_677KZrENYPkLftIrrA9be-qWUuaOghWPcrOKPsKIA99Im6IWso1WxXczNPce7lRddbkDMqITk3Sj80EPbQgL5tiSZ7zw9GI3m8nNPwDNLrc4YDV6GLOm18cmyLwDnDH78KNY0YlTZoLKAyTbX6Ef6HADhtjMKsPpp59Ak6AljIWkobNL41nDopIr5T0r-1Sun7sHFzMgTCaMpKBgVOOwC6VAJ-C2CzGLAKAq-zQl_z-utpfzsm1LYDIdfO6me5W7himlpSFbBXxYOkDzb2ZQL6cZcfbPpxwuFEddR4bhWt4z1AYleEP7bhR1sGRennc-2lRKnF0gYnkLA2L-hVcI16rAGy2O9Hy0VMlazH3lFB1vfrfYSNYVKLfwlGliXkvxfm1CSS5SLNPfSFIiM6Niu9KuFhCpmoDJv2V5XxkxJzQvMjxIPx2TKdehSu5piqU93qBcEFyJliU7Sqx75k2xzSOyuUSGlIYDYrLrI=w1136-h757-no)

Kam to Carlos...

"Celtics LOST."

Just trying to lend a brother a helping hand. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 10, 2020, 12:41:48 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 10, 2020, 12:09:17 PM
Mudiay would have stayed - and fairly cheaply.  That's the point

What was the reason he was let go - beyond needing every cent for two maxes?

I have defended mgt this year - just thought that - and Kanter - was foolish.

Kanter at Celtics money would've been a good re-up [1 year, player option for 2020-21 at around five million]. 

Hell, at TAJ GIBSON Money. 

And again, no reason to let Mudiay walk.  He'd have taken what we offered. 

BoD makes his points, but hey, Ellington at 8 million or Mudiay for half the money or less?

Oh, well...

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 10, 2020, 01:11:26 PM
I guess Nets fans could say, "well, if we thought that way we would not have cleared money for Ky and Kev"

Weird NBA these days
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 10, 2020, 01:25:31 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 10, 2020, 12:41:48 PM
BoD makes his points, but hey, Ellington at 8 million or Mudiay for half the money or less?

1/4.  Mud signed for 1/$1.7M
I think it was really Payton or Mud.

No idea why we signed both Bullock and Ellington.

It's like we want doppelgangers:

Franc and Smith Jr.
Two young PG's who can't shoot 3's and have confidence issues.

Ellington & Bullock
a pair of journeymen wings who shoot 3's allright

Randle & Portis
a pair of rebounding/scoring PF's who play inattentive D

Knox & RJB
athletic pups who can't shoot

Datsun and Trier
overlooked SG's trying to show an NBA game.

One thing about Morris and Taj is they add stuff we don't otherwise have.  Certainly Mitch as well. Payton too to a lesser extent.

I'm still glad we didn't sign Kyrie & KD.  Gimpy expensive prima donnas.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 10, 2020, 01:46:20 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on January 08, 2020, 10:58:14 PM
21 years old. Nobody has had an easy possession checked by him. Gonna be one helluva 24 year old.

Three more years?!  You need a hobby if watching Frank develop for three more years is your plan.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 10, 2020, 01:49:55 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on January 09, 2020, 06:22:00 PM
Personally I find season five a bit late, but good that he's finally taking himself seriously.

But give Frank 6!  OOOh weee.... the vapors!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 10, 2020, 01:51:11 PM
Well, we likely wouldnt have picked up next year if we werent bent on signing him past then

RFA after 2020-21

We likely match the mediocre offer Frank receives.
Title: Re: Hey Kamster
Post by: Kam on January 10, 2020, 01:54:05 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 09, 2020, 10:43:20 PM
Ur friend Enes, best player on the Cs today


Get off his dick Carlos. He's not a Knick. You guys have the Enes p enis up your b utts
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 10, 2020, 02:49:49 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 10, 2020, 01:46:20 PM
Three more years?!  You need a hobby if watching Frank develop for three more years is your plan.

I have several hobbies. Watching the Knicks is my stupidest and least productive one — without argument — but I enjoy it greatly despite an unsuccessful New Years' Eve quit attempt. I very much enjoy watching Frank develop. Last game was the best yet, pure pleasure. If the upward trajec continues, I expect the enjoyment to continue.


Quote from: Kam on January 10, 2020, 01:49:55 PM
But give Frank 6!  OOOh weee.... the vapors!

Frank is quite obviously taking his own development seriously right now, hence the enjoyment. Imagine watching the Round Mound of Mudiay all those years until he did. The horror!


Title: Re: Hey Kamster
Post by: chipstern on January 10, 2020, 02:58:52 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 10, 2020, 01:54:05 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 09, 2020, 10:43:20 PM
Ur friend Enes, best player on the Cs today


Get off his dick Carlos. He's not a Knick. You guys have the Enes p enis up your b utts

Speaking of objects in one's rectum.

All last season you eviscerated the Knicks for giving Mud minutes that you felt should have gone to Frank's development.

Now the Hamzter's legendary priapic protrusion has bent due South and we,are treated to regular rips on Frank.

Why should any carbon based life form take you seriously?

Dawg?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 10, 2020, 03:08:28 PM
LOL I can't think of one reason, but give him time, surely by the third or fourth month of 2020 he'll find a new riff . ...  or maybe not.

Title: Re: Hey Kamster
Post by: carlos123 on January 10, 2020, 03:13:10 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 10, 2020, 01:54:05 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 09, 2020, 10:43:20 PM
Ur friend Enes, best player on the Cs today


Get off his dick Carlos. He's not a Knick. You guys have the Enes p enis up your b utts

We love u 2 💕

The Kamster is our favorite Hamster 🐹
Title: Re: Hey Kamster
Post by: Kam on January 10, 2020, 04:28:52 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 10, 2020, 02:58:52 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 10, 2020, 01:54:05 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 09, 2020, 10:43:20 PM
Ur friend Enes, best player on the Cs today


Get off his dick Carlos. He's not a Knick. You guys have the Enes p enis up your b utts

Speaking of objects in one's rectum.

All last season you eviscerated the Knicks for giving Mud minutes that you felt should have gone to Frank's development.

Now the Hamzter's legendary priapic protrusion has bent due South and we,are treated to regular rips on Frank.

Why should any carbon based life form take you seriously?

Dawg?

Good observation.  I'm happy to explain my position.  I think the Knicks messed Frank up from early on.  I wanted him to start from day 1 and grow.  Or at the very least start from day 1 in Westchester and grow.  I absolutely believe the suits and coaches never really believed in him because he was foisted on them by Phil and then Phil was gone 10 days later.  In fact they went so far as to trade for the guy Dallas took after we took frank to try to cure their buyer's remorse. 

So after years of neglect akin to a pregnant mother deciding to take up smoking we now see this lesser version of what Frank should be by now.  So now that he has opportunity and all the minutes he could want, he isn't ready.  He just isn't ready for a starting role.  And yeah, we can give him three more years.  But my point is during that time we are blinding ourselves to better options.  Frank isn't the first player we fell in love with and he won't be the last.  I invest too much time watching this team play meaningless ball and I want to invest in a player i believe in.  I've lost faith Frank can be the guy who leads us. Yeah he can be the 8th man... but there are no shortages of role players.  Frank was picked to be more than that.  Do i believe he needs a change of scenery to realize his potential?  100%.

Frank as a Knick?  Meh...  doubt this environment is right for his confidence or his style of game.  Not because he can't be a good guy off the bench, but because lets face it, we are bias and will be happy to lose if we can point to the fact that Frank showed progress.  Is that what you wanna invest in?  Minimal progress loss after loss until we hope someday he suddenly becomes consistently good? 

I don't think the harvest will be worth the wait.  He can be solid. He won't ever be great enough to justify the amount of text we are typing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 10, 2020, 05:24:04 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on January 10, 2020, 02:49:49 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 10, 2020, 01:46:20 PM
Three more years?!  You need a hobby if watching Frank develop for three more years is your plan.

I have several hobbies. Watching the Knicks is my stupidest and least productive one — without argument — but I enjoy it greatly despite an unsuccessful New Years' Eve quit attempt. I very much enjoy watching Frank develop. Last game was the best yet, pure pleasure. If the upward trajec continues, I expect the enjoyment to continue.


Quote from: Kam on January 10, 2020, 01:49:55 PM
But give Frank 6!  OOOh weee.... the vapors!

Frank is quite obviously taking his own development seriously right now, hence the enjoyment. Imagine watching the Round Mound of Mudiay all those years until he did. The horror!

ONE double digit game in a row
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 10, 2020, 09:38:52 PM
Good game...
Title: We lost again
Post by: carlos123 on January 10, 2020, 09:59:55 PM
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/qyklBGMobivBPxfoLHS-wRw9kjm4kFkwbVm7Fi61cdyeqM0Xghc6oyqPJQhJeFKFC8HToHCzVg21j4EJZ4EJxUF6HIl1xtSa3jGEZ0zZL4HbejgfploqwyQIyK4i7sYtskBo7sp81WhjdBIJ1Z0iWmy3QxTnrzLMHmE2b9AtiknrhifpfAZjRYBBn_-B3nP_gpS-kcv9rh7SdeKOBaZ6kGnpwUQWEPEXvz1MmhwoDBE7FTqtMoNufYjmEz6u5vEDQ6e_7SYtOHOYr-AjDVBBu8Da8sZ0fo94GYR7CwI5v8BiDlTDTjFHLPkDoPWLR2RnOT2CqiZL0hB1bg8EfAKEXUophDsx7v92KZ3CmXm2k-bTnizBctE0V2ylnutNkq5Gk0TGgygNkVCrSv3M209jV7Z3Ky7FqSx25F2-8c9iIGVq599vwwjcrKYGkhgVkM-ifJARYHaEGi-35tkeUiyV16z5AEtNCjXcd3NNWw9XPM9HGtEA98QJKo_XIb55f6J_-4PQ9191bbFF-tDqB1ibhz9Qy5eAcmhbyu_gtMV2uv9Fe7-EO9imaCgXSep40Up-BKWj3yc0M7cqreNoJrOB4xBn5kcaWN6rUd7VjB-nk_gsSW6Wlsw-VarBp905tpq6IU-qyTwkCMgIg3oCSOo4NM1P4-hdkuSFiA5myHI-9RH477EgY98GXp0XJnUgDYWbXUHpCNB8f-h1aT8tPxvjH4W35_z-ZXXR7Z7gI0WRKYutCHE=w599-h460-no)
Title: Re: Hey Kamster
Post by: FWK00 on January 11, 2020, 12:45:04 AM
Quote from: Kam on January 10, 2020, 04:28:52 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 10, 2020, 02:58:52 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 10, 2020, 01:54:05 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 09, 2020, 10:43:20 PM
Ur friend Enes, best player on the Cs today


Get off his dick Carlos. He's not a Knick. You guys have the Enes p enis up your b utts

Speaking of objects in one's rectum.

All last season you eviscerated the Knicks for giving Mud minutes that you felt should have gone to Frank's development.

Now the Hamzter's legendary priapic protrusion has bent due South and we,are treated to regular rips on Frank.

Why should any carbon based life form take you seriously?

Dawg?

Good observation.  I'm happy to explain my position.  I think the Knicks messed Frank up from early on.  I wanted him to start from day 1 and grow.  Or at the very least start from day 1 in Westchester and grow.  I absolutely believe the suits and coaches never really believed in him because he was foisted on them by Phil and then Phil was gone 10 days later.  In fact they went so far as to trade for the guy Dallas took after we took frank to try to cure their buyer's remorse. 

So after years of neglect akin to a pregnant mother deciding to take up smoking we now see this lesser version of what Frank should be by now.  So now that he has opportunity and all the minutes he could want, he isn't ready.  He just isn't ready for a starting role.  And yeah, we can give him three more years.  But my point is during that time we are blinding ourselves to better options.  Frank isn't the first player we fell in love with and he won't be the last.  I invest too much time watching this team play meaningless ball and I want to invest in a player i believe in.  I've lost faith Frank can be the guy who leads us. Yeah he can be the 8th man... but there are no shortages of role players.  Frank was picked to be more than that.  Do i believe he needs a change of scenery to realize his potential?  100%.

Frank as a Knick?  Meh...  doubt this environment is right for his confidence or his style of game.  Not because he can't be a good guy off the bench, but because lets face it, we are bias and will be happy to lose if we can point to the fact that Frank showed progress.  Is that what you wanna invest in?  Minimal progress loss after loss until we hope someday he suddenly becomes consistently good? 

I don't think the harvest will be worth the wait.  He can be solid. He won't ever be great enough to justify the amount of text we are typing.

I think your opinions of Frankie are wholly misguided.  I don't think Phil foisted Frankie on anyone.  The FO draft experts probably all had their own opinions and based on the first few years others guessed better than others.  But Frankie was always a long term bet and not an immediate gratification gamble.  The players who might provide immediate gratification are doing so.  Whether or not they continue to develop is a longer term conversation.

As for Frankie's development, well, this is the Knicks.. Its only now, with Miller as head coach, do our youth stand any chance of actually realizing their potential.

You bring up the red herring that the Knicks should or could cut bait on Frankie because of opportunity cost [e.g. missing out on a better player] yet the number of PGs who have passed through MSG without sticking is legion.  If you take a deep breath and examine Frankie's progress, he's actually progressing exponentially in terms of efficiency.  No, he's not yet as prolific as he will be but that's a different issue.  What he is bringing is timely scoring and he's taking shots that are necessary.

I don't and have never expected a starting PG production from Frankie until his fifth year not because I'm Nostradamus but because that is statistically the mean by which PGs develop into solid pros.

The concept of "rebuild" has a semantic meaning that is lost on Knicks fans.  NBA Youth take tiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiime to develop.  Not months, not two or three years but four and five years.

I hesitate to suggest Frankie is actually accelerating faster so as not to jinx it.  But he's a star in the making, maybe a generational Knicks player.  His value today is small potatoes and the money nonsense is just hot air.  This kid is playing his way into better days.  There are bigger fish to fry.

IMO, make a decision on Morris for the long term.  He's a late bloomer whose profile is classic Knicks.

Get a bruiser back-up center for MR.  Deincentivise the strategy of getting MR out of the game. Gibson is playing great but he's not a center, nor is Portis.

Prune and harden the roster.  IMO, Ellington and Portis need relocation.  Of the expendable youth, DSJ, Knox, and Trier could/should move. Ratchet up the talent a notch with the above needs filled and a deep shooter candidate or two.

And, in my gut, I still think Randall would be better served getting traded.
Title: Edith Piaf, Knix Fan . . .
Post by: bodiddley on January 11, 2020, 04:27:18 AM
Quote from: FWK00 on January 11, 2020, 12:45:04 AM
As for Frankie's development, well, this is the Knicks.. Its only now, with Miller as head coach, do our youth stand any chance of actually realizing their potential.

I don't understand this nonsense.
- Mitch, as a raw 2nd rounder, developed quite nicely last year under Fizz. 
- No-names Trier & Dot were given plenty of opps, instead of getting buried on the bench. 
- Knox and RJB were given tons of minutes and freedom as rooks (too much in my book). 
- I'd agree Franc got jerked around a bit, but some of that is on Franc, with his timid inability to being the ball upcourt, paint allergy, embarrassingly telegraphed passes, and lack of shot or willingness to shoot, compounded by injuries last year.

Quote
Frankie is actually accelerating ... But he's a star in the making, maybe a generational Knicks player.  His value today is small potatoes and the money nonsense is just hot air.  This kid is playing his way into better days. 

I'm not sure even Franc's close relatives believe this.  Not just rose-colored glasses, but infra-rose vision, so you can see into a future that will not exist.

I actually like Franc and pull for him, but I find it real hard to see Franc as a starting PG.  He's akin to Knox -- I like him , I pull for him, but there's so much for him to work on.  I think Charlie Ward is about his upside, I doubt he can reach Pa Bev heights.  I can see him as an effective bench player, playing long-armed D, efficiently shooting few shots, being capable of running a 2nd unit.
I'd like Franc (and Knox) to be 10+ year Knix, but I still think we badly need a starting caliber PG for now and the future.  I'm even willing to take on 34 year old Chris Paul and his $40M to have one.

I also don't get this talk of needing a C, as though it was pressing.  Sure it'd be nice to have a Baynes type bully, and this year has seen somewhat of a resurgence in C usage.  But I'd prioritize a starting PG, a 3&D wing, and a deadeye shooter over a beefy C.  It shouldn't be hard to pick up a Plumlee or Zeller or Len or Baynes or such on the cheap.  At least we never boned up by dumping $15+M on a stiff like Mahinmi.(well, we did back in the day with Jerome James and Eddy Curry)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 11, 2020, 06:37:16 AM
Those good shooting Knix went 5-27 on 3's.

Didn't see the game, but I like Portis' stat line.  Efficient shooting on not too many shots, combined with boards and assists.  I don't like Portis chucking up 17 FG's a game.

Pels no-name bench beat us up.

19 year old Jax Hayes would have had a career high if he didn't shoot a Knick-like 4-9 FT's.  Hay Jax had 19 in his debut back in G1 v. GS.

Pels had 35 assists and 19 turnovers.  Both impressive figures ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 11, 2020, 01:15:21 PM
Get a bruiser back-up center for MR.  Deincentivise the strategy of getting MR out of the game. Gibson is playing great but he's not a center, nor is Portis.


Latest is Knicks pondering an add Drummond/deal Mitch scenario
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 11, 2020, 01:16:37 PM
Didn't see the game, but I like Portis' stat line.  Efficient shooting on not too many shots, combined with boards and assists. I don't like Portis chucking up 17 FG's a game.


I'd have been upset to NOT see it with Julius and Marcus out
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 11, 2020, 02:11:34 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 09, 2020, 09:03:18 AM
My selections

Ben S, Lowry, Butler, Giannis, Embiid

Luka, James H, Kawhi, AD, Rudy G

Heh

Can't do it.  LeBron is too good.  And he plays all the time.  Drop Kawhi
Title: The 2 Chicos
Post by: carlos123 on January 11, 2020, 05:43:59 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 11, 2020, 02:11:34 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 09, 2020, 09:03:18 AM
My selections

Ben S, Lowry, Butler, Giannis, Embiid

Luka, James H, Kawhi, AD, Rudy G

Heh

Can't do it.  LeBron is too good.  And he plays all the time.  Drop Kawhi

Nice to see kid arguing with kiid, Chico and Chiico, 👶 and👩‍🦲
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 11, 2020, 08:40:59 PM
Tatum going for 50

Cue Bankshot...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on January 11, 2020, 08:47:42 PM
Why wait for Bank? You've been telling us for years how great Tatum is.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 11, 2020, 09:04:48 PM
Honestly it wasn't a real tough call.  I'd have just drafted differently.
Title: Where you at Kantster..I mean Hamster..I mean...
Post by: lesterluv on January 11, 2020, 09:30:10 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 11, 2020, 08:40:59 PM
Tatum going for 50

Cue Bankshot...


Not impressive. He needed 30 minutes. Kanter only needed 23 to grab 22 pts on 10-13 shooting to go along with 19 boards....;))
Title: Les, LEAVE THE KAMSTER TO ME!
Post by: carlos123 on January 11, 2020, 09:50:51 PM
Les, you killed my post!!!

Anyway, there it goes ...

BENCH       MIN    FG     3PT     FT     OREB   DREB   REB     +/-   PTS

E. KanterC   23   10-13   0-0   2-2        7         12      19      +11   22

IMPRESSIVE! 19 rebounds and 22 points in 23 minutes. Thanks Phony Phizz for throwing Enes under the bus.

And, Kamster, remember that we love u 2.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/eaUbCwjS8BCCQn29LgmztkPo7B6uppjT44hLRPKui2PhioXLNLnBdQi5pUYh4NYkLhqJ0WWB3J9ytEA5GjEpXYFjhw9uCkA2rxUbpjJUMzhD_i8LSs1vte8EcsH58rxi5Gud1Jd3dwr4rbthrcJYg8UhrD8twODC6q1OEH-QoTsat5seIAgZ02LzwzJMZC1of96rgIkVqHoZ7uEIZRJDCp0nWst9WzLVf6xmuou06i0MM5-HWgMJY0xUaIc9kiJI5lZIKXfGT6viaoPpZsPgv9x5rj--qEdiJfZRSA0RJp1MjU1iAt-3yZHAn3BwDDXTANr2Iv0j8I5BkAw1TA3GVz6K4aPGq0c-PXNrevjs0KCGqQCbd345dzFuxIkLJvI6k8G5Y_B_QOC18fkAZxTApGciH9RSVNRo5LldXXx3HULU0Nju8LKf_bMutcyEEmL8-E6RX77CJXxqWAugmSCEB3-zQD-XKpw9rr5wP2t_LWkcNNyOsAjBGfouFFeyUjfX7-Pc0Fd1437o8HBMg1gZMgzLdlfGuJXDYVys0h_hndVSVtyzqQ-NBak4z8tqxhi55-oeMulrpdJbKzhyyTUM-_0jn8hRX7myhPaHbXRz932j7uFLZW4kUD_F-i1PC0BmBOab85JEURvnIRbGSF2D4XmYamG0zCFfnB1qViWKvsKN6fDL5nxj-s4T3piPt7fMSofI-WN_Go07UkONGTH3CqIIDWOa9BEF_YaqnnNbRzydWSY=w1136-h757-no)

Even Les loves u 2, don't u Les?

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/4IpcnDwiv3W841wZOPjP_6CjTAPYNEmwbTgcWVGWwsoKyIptUBp_krTqMDsi2uNdXqBEGl8w90jy32pefj9BJNA8AoR9xakaIsbjyC49hKVrq_xETm83rMyZQQJ1vbDUMA5MbuUH3XyK4eD_6VIMcY0o0pX_5MrIM6-CiKxtbdtnrQVIXBAdJTiQB2i1FOjDe7O27_34yNb1Mlc_axJ3R_v0ZnR9tUdPACLIAxPko9oLyCGseBMfnr7ztUHKmzEozS-KQe2WE0tOmQldd2_QouA12MOqIyFc30oMNEOJoIQN_9ghCXeBvt2my_m8d4eb9J7eDv7ytn0gPMiyfZu7hoNv2jF5adTCQMYpKM-AQGGTIjC4HeUymDxggjW3Oepg6JEK8WpDSKQm0fXg8SKEztp5uYO-vA-hGKt8s2nxLuM7eU0FQRxyAD57zeGSP7h2nFi2brgnFP5abcwom8DfTJ83dKNsxIAnFclqKK_eNjQW69frpLciGWlAbTXozX_9KyKEhaeYe2bl-zKo04bTTFvx5PqvplCpqezy17pCOEY86-etlISsx5LriV7Fcaom42iflD9RREr5Lf9i3bLS0X0Q5C_H26OYfhTAA3SyNE3666_TAhSMr8IooudycFQtl_-7X_aLwknBhFuOl2OK2TYjbTpxJZR7G8MzGfiuDfH_N6i8pBZIIOMQoenqIfMt4CPIbIyyIEVsECc36ZpbXiBUrvpDDUtLOCLoodlJC3AzTPM=w595-h757-no)
The sunshine on a cloudy day...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on January 11, 2020, 09:51:37 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 11, 2020, 08:40:59 PM
Tatum going for 50

Cue Bankshot...

He sat the entire 4th qtr.

and moron I don't cherry-pick post about Tatum.

You do.

By now most people understand he's a very good player,

Except for you,

The real advances he's made this year is his defense, I think Marcus has been coaching him up, but he's still only 21 and still learning,

but you'd have to watch him play to understand that.


 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 11, 2020, 09:53:36 PM
He sat the entire 4th qtr.


No shit
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 11, 2020, 10:00:26 PM
Another good looking game for Darius Garland today

Outplaying RJ, no doubt.
Title: Re: Les, LEAVE THE KAMSTER TO ME!
Post by: lesterluv on January 11, 2020, 10:29:50 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 11, 2020, 09:50:51 PM
Les, you killed my post!!!
Sorry Los, when I saw the 19 boards I just couldn't help myself!

*** and, after last night's game, I was badly in need of some small diversion
Title: Re: Les, LEAVE THE KAMSTER TO ME!
Post by: carlos123 on January 11, 2020, 11:13:00 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on January 11, 2020, 10:29:50 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 11, 2020, 09:50:51 PM
Les, you killed my post!!!
Sorry Los, when I saw the 19 boards I just couldn't help myself!

*** and, after last night's game, I was badly in need of some small diversion

Ok, I totally understand. Last nite was TOUGH. 😭
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 12, 2020, 12:00:52 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 11, 2020, 10:00:26 PM
Another good looking game for Darius Garland today

Outplaying RJ, no doubt.

Says YOU. 
Title: Re: Edith Piaf, Knix Fan . . .
Post by: FWK00 on January 12, 2020, 12:18:02 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 11, 2020, 04:27:18 AM
Quote from: FWK00 on January 11, 2020, 12:45:04 AM
As for Frankie's development, well, this is the Knicks.. Its only now, with Miller as head coach, do our youth stand any chance of actually realizing their potential.

I don't understand this nonsense.
- Mitch, as a raw 2nd rounder, developed quite nicely last year under Fizz. 
- No-names Trier & Dot were given plenty of opps, instead of getting buried on the bench. 
- Knox and RJB were given tons of minutes and freedom as rooks (too much in my book). 
- I'd agree Franc got jerked around a bit, but some of that is on Franc, with his timid inability to being the ball upcourt, paint allergy, embarrassingly telegraphed passes, and lack of shot or willingness to shoot, compounded by injuries last year.

Quote
Frankie is actually accelerating ... But he's a star in the making, maybe a generational Knicks player.  His value today is small potatoes and the money nonsense is just hot air.  This kid is playing his way into better days. 

I'm not sure even Franc's close relatives believe this.  Not just rose-colored glasses, but infra-rose vision, so you can see into a future that will not exist.

I actually like Franc and pull for him, but I find it real hard to see Franc as a starting PG.  He's akin to Knox -- I like him , I pull for him, but there's so much for him to work on.  I think Charlie Ward is about his upside, I doubt he can reach Pa Bev heights.  I can see him as an effective bench player, playing long-armed D, efficiently shooting few shots, being capable of running a 2nd unit.
I'd like Franc (and Knox) to be 10+ year Knix, but I still think we badly need a starting caliber PG for now and the future.  I'm even willing to take on 34 year old Chris Paul and his $40M to have one.

I also don't get this talk of needing a C, as though it was pressing.  Sure it'd be nice to have a Baynes type bully, and this year has seen somewhat of a resurgence in C usage.  But I'd prioritize a starting PG, a 3&D wing, and a deadeye shooter over a beefy C.  It shouldn't be hard to pick up a Plumlee or Zeller or Len or Baynes or such on the cheap.  At least we never boned up by dumping $15+M on a stiff like Mahinmi.(well, we did back in the day with Jerome James and Eddy Curry)

Bo, any MR development only came after the Knicks acquired Deandre Jordan.  Fizdale added jack-sh@t to MR's development.  And Knox and the rest of the kids were given zero guidance in terms of playing disciplined system basketball.  Empty stats during a seson empty of wins or purpose is not development.  Fizdale was garbage and I said so in realtime.

Frank's treatment at the hands of Fizdale was no different than anyone else.  Fizdale was wholly ambivalent - waiting on Durant and KI and veterans.  To Fizdale the rooks were just disposable pawns.

Capisce?


As for Frankie, he ain't getting any smaller.  He's already elite on the defensive side of the ball and a better shooter than all of Know, RJ, and Trier - go check out a thread on Ultimate Knicks for a nice breakout.

Yes, he confounds everyone who has preconceived ideas about what a PG should/could/would look like.  He's an original.  The true unicorn of Phil's drafting.
Gaines still loves his game and thinks the Knicks would forever regret trading him.  Wally has no use for him but Hahn has shown an open, if skeptical, mind.  And anyone watching games can tell you its a different team in a good way with Frankie on the court.

He's also the Knicks best loved player.  MSG loves this kid.  Frankie is part of the solution and not the problem.
Title: Re: Edith Piaf, Knix Fan . . .
Post by: chipstern on January 12, 2020, 12:32:07 AM
Quote from: FWK00 on January 12, 2020, 12:18:02 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 11, 2020, 04:27:18 AM
Quote from: FWK00 on January 11, 2020, 12:45:04 AM
As for Frankie's development, well, this is the Knicks.. Its only now, with Miller as head coach, do our youth stand any chance of actually realizing their potential.

I don't understand this nonsense.
- Mitch, as a raw 2nd rounder, developed quite nicely last year under Fizz. 
- No-names Trier & Dot were given plenty of opps, instead of getting buried on the bench. 
- Knox and RJB were given tons of minutes and freedom as rooks (too much in my book). 
- I'd agree Franc got jerked around a bit, but some of that is on Franc, with his timid inability to being the ball upcourt, paint allergy, embarrassingly telegraphed passes, and lack of shot or willingness to shoot, compounded by injuries last year.

Quote
Frankie is actually accelerating ... But he's a star in the making, maybe a generational Knicks player.  His value today is small potatoes and the money nonsense is just hot air.  This kid is playing his way into better days. 

I'm not sure even Franc's close relatives believe this.  Not just rose-colored glasses, but infra-rose vision, so you can see into a future that will not exist.

I actually like Franc and pull for him, but I find it real hard to see Franc as a starting PG.  He's akin to Knox -- I like him , I pull for him, but there's so much for him to work on.  I think Charlie Ward is about his upside, I doubt he can reach Pa Bev heights.  I can see him as an effective bench player, playing long-armed D, efficiently shooting few shots, being capable of running a 2nd unit.
I'd like Franc (and Knox) to be 10+ year Knix, but I still think we badly need a starting caliber PG for now and the future.  I'm even willing to take on 34 year old Chris Paul and his $40M to have one.

I also don't get this talk of needing a C, as though it was pressing.  Sure it'd be nice to have a Baynes type bully, and this year has seen somewhat of a resurgence in C usage.  But I'd prioritize a starting PG, a 3&D wing, and a deadeye shooter over a beefy C.  It shouldn't be hard to pick up a Plumlee or Zeller or Len or Baynes or such on the cheap.  At least we never boned up by dumping $15+M on a stiff like Mahinmi.(well, we did back in the day with Jerome James and Eddy Curry)

Bo, any MR development only came after the Knicks acquired Deandre Jordan.  Fizdale added jack-sh@t to MR's development.  And Knox and the rest of the kids were given zero guidance in terms of playing disciplined system basketball.  Empty stats during a seson empty of wins or purpose is not development.  Fizdale was garbage and I said so in realtime.

Frank's treatment at the hands of Fizdale was no different than anyone else.  Fizdale was wholly ambivalent - waiting on Durant and KI and veterans.  To Fizdale the rooks were just disposable pawns.

Capisce?


As for Frankie, he ain't getting any smaller.  He's already elite on the defensive side of the ball and a better shooter than all of Know, RJ, and Trier - go check out a thread on Ultimate Knicks for a nice breakout.

Yes, he confounds everyone who has preconceived ideas about what a PG should/could/would look like.  He's an original.  The true unicorn of Phil's drafting.
Gaines still loves his game and thinks the Knicks would forever regret trading him.  Wally has no use for him but Hahn has shown an open, if skeptical, mind.  And anyone watching games can tell you its a different team in a good way with Frankie on the court.

He's also the Knicks best loved player.  MSG loves this kid.  Frankie is part of the solution and not the problem.

Capiche
Title: Kamster Droppings
Post by: chipstern on January 12, 2020, 12:40:28 AM
Waiter? 

One Dick Up The Ass For Table 13.  With a side of crow sashimi...hold the wasabi....

Guess who, nose bleed? 

23 Minutes

10-13 FG

2-2   FT

22 Points

7 Offensive Boards

12 Defensive Boards

19 Total Boards   

1 Assist

For a +11

Pucker up, Kamster.  Enes sure is a bum, ain't he?

Oh, Celtics 140, Pelicans 105.

WE now return to EVISCERATE & DISMISS FRANK PREMATURELY, the board game, brought to you by The Kamster, Makers of Non-Aromatic Feces, The Bored Game from Milton Badly. 
Title: Kornet Sighting
Post by: chipstern on January 12, 2020, 12:48:02 AM
Big game for Luke in win over the Pistons. 
Title: Re: Edith Piaf, Knix Fan . . .
Post by: FWK00 on January 12, 2020, 12:57:39 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 11, 2020, 04:27:18 AM
Quote from: FWK00 on January 11, 2020, 12:45:04 AM
As for Frankie's development, well, this is the Knicks.. Its only now, with Miller as head coach, do our youth stand any chance of actually realizing their potential.

-snip-

Quote
Frankie is actually accelerating ... But he's a star in the making, maybe a generational Knicks player.  His value today is small potatoes and the money nonsense is just hot air.  This kid is playing his way into better days. 
-snip


I'd like Franc (and Knox) to be 10+ year Knix, but I still think we badly need a starting caliber PG for now and the future.  I'm even willing to take on 34 year old Chris Paul and his $40M to have one.

I also don't get this talk of needing a C, as though it was pressing.  Sure it'd be nice to have a Baynes type bully, and this year has seen somewhat of a resurgence in C usage.  But I'd prioritize a starting PG, a 3&D wing, and a deadeye shooter over a beefy C.  It shouldn't be hard to pick up a Plumlee or Zeller or Len or Baynes or such on the cheap.  At least we never boned up by dumping $15+M on a stiff like Mahinmi.(well, we did back in the day with Jerome James and Eddy Curry)

In general terms, the only tweaking I think that's necessary with the PG position is that DSJ needs to be moved.  Payton has been distracted lately because of a new baby and ugly as that looks in recent games we weren't beating the Clips or Lakers anyway so this is as good a time as any to have his head spin.

IMO, the two-headed Payton/Frankie PG coverage is ideal.  Both have great potential and represent consistent expectations on the court. Allen backs both in complementary fashion.

However, I've also come to the conclusion that the Knicks need to trade into a contender.  Draft picks are nice but Free Agency  has become a perennial, flaccid tease.  While I'm open to CP3 or Westbrook, I don't think either are interested in joining the Knicks and forcing that never ends well.

I *could*, however see Rubio or Conley fit nicely in which case I think Payton gets moved as a consequence in one trade or another.  And I don't see it as an abandonment of the rebuild - Frankie needs a couple of years before he takes the reigns for good.

I've been advocating for months that we need a C who can come in and apply the same kind of defensive pressure as Mitch.  Now, teams can bait MR into fouling out and while Gibson and Portis are fine rotation players, it doesn't click.

Now, for months I've advocated any trade be a multi-player trade that opened a roster spot for Wooten - an MR doppleganger.  But here I'm willing to admit I'm not confident this is good enough.  Wooten is not a basketball player yet but he is *raw* talent.

And the more I watch the Knicks, MR thrives against sub-par teams and wilts against winning teams.  He gets bullied and pushed around a lot.  The Knicks need a pit-bull of their own to change that equation.  I'm actually open to Drummond assuming the price isn't Mitch.  They'd be a hell of a tag team.

If the Knicks could move Randall, DSJ, and Ellington for Drummond and Kennard, what's not to like?

If Morris gets traded, my first choice of likely candidates would be Kuzma.

Knox is another player I'd like to see flipped for an equivalent talent.  Nor is RJ untouchable, IMO.  Ratchet up the immediate talent pool.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 12, 2020, 01:43:27 AM
That’s counting on our FO to win a trade. If we do anything, I’m capping my hopes at a wash that at least somewhat balances the roster and adds a new element.

Morris Bullock Barrett Knox and Dotson are a credible set of wings.

I like the Idea of Taj backing up Randle, especially if there is a market for Portis.

Mitch is a player and a pup. I’d like him to grow with a skills guy who’s a bit heavier and uses his base.

I think Miller is slowly rounding the turn on having our PGs getting the team organized and is starting to make inroads on getting the team to make ops for the pgs and both Payton and Frank are finding the gumption to take them.

Here’s a nice balance the roster trade I’d drop a second rounder into; Portis & Ellington for Marc Gasol & Rondae Hollis-Jefferson. It saves the Raps about 5 mil. Backing up Ibaka, Portis would put up numbers for them and you can surround him with defenders he can goon for. Ellington adds shooting and experience, good for a playoff team that has excellent PG’s and other threats.

Mitch gets to learn from Marc, who already has a ring. With RHJ for Portis what we lose in threes we make up for in D and mobility.

Title: Dream on
Post by: carlos123 on January 12, 2020, 01:58:35 AM
Both very nice trades, but more like armed robberies. Why on earth would either the Pistons or the Raptors agree to be raped by perrymills?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 12, 2020, 04:52:21 AM
Payton and Franc can't make 3's.  Hardly ideal.  Payton is a quality backup PG.  Franc struggling to get to that level.
_______________________________________________

Maybe TOR feels they have too much defense and feel they need some inconsistent chuckers?  If so, great trade.  Clearly not happening.  We couldn't even get Ma Gasol & StanJohn for Portis/Ellington/Jr. Smith.  In fact, why would they move Ma Gas?
Or want our chumps?
________________________________________

I can't see how anyone would think that Drummond and Randle would make a good pairing.  Isn't Drummond just a larger fatter Randle?  They could make a good offensive line.

Sure, I'd swap Randle for Bulldog Drummond, but why would DET?  They already have Blake at PF doing essentially the same but better, when/if his knee heals up.  They're gonna cash out their best player for redundancy and nothing much?

I feel bad for DET.  I thought Drummond could become the kind of monster Embiid has become.  RegJax seemed a good candidate as a starting PG.  Stan John looked like a glue guy wing defender.   Looked like a solid plan, but none of it panned out.  SVG also consistently failed to deliver a bench.  Though they did resurrect Ish Smith.

Drummond is still a force, but he's plateaued, is still foul- and error-prone on D.  Jax is always crippled.  StanJohn couldn't make a shot.   Blake was of course a semi-desperation gamble, and he's been good when healthy.  But when he was healthy, RegJax and/or Drummond tended to be gimpy.  And they lost Tobias to get Blake.  Kennard is a nice shooter.
Title: Re: Edith Piaf, Knix Fan . . .
Post by: Kam on January 12, 2020, 01:55:45 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on January 12, 2020, 12:18:02 AM
And anyone watching games can tell you its a different team in a good way with Frankie on the court.


Why not look at the offensive/defensive and net ratings when frank is on the court.

Hint: It's not that good.
Title: So dumb
Post by: Kam on January 12, 2020, 02:07:16 PM
Why not post Mitchell Robinson statlines?  Our 21 year old C.  The guy who blossomed once we shipped that sad sack of shit he who won't be named out the door. 
Title: Re: Hey Kamster
Post by: Kam on January 12, 2020, 02:14:17 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on January 11, 2020, 12:45:04 AM

NBA Youth take tiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiime to develop.  Not months, not two or three years but four and five years.


Then it is only smart to let the slow ones develop on someone else's time.   The NBA isn't a developmental league. It's a wins league.  Losses for the sake of a lottery ticket are no longer a viable strategy. 
Title: Re: So dumb
Post by: chipstern on January 12, 2020, 03:10:29 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 12, 2020, 02:07:16 PM
Why not post Mitchell Robinson statlines?  Our 21 year old C.  The guy who blossomed once we shipped that sad sack of shit he who won't be named out the door.

22   6-7   0-0   0-0   3   1   4   1   1   0   1   3   -11   12
Title: Re: So dumb
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 12, 2020, 03:36:03 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 12, 2020, 02:07:16 PM
Why not post Mitchell Robinson statlines?  Our 21 year old C.  The guy who blossomed once we shipped that sad sack of shit he who won't be named out the door.

Mitch is an athlete - not yet a player
Title: Hapless Hamster's Hard On
Post by: chipstern on January 12, 2020, 04:12:40 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 12, 2020, 02:07:16 PM
Why not post Mitchell Robinson statlines?  Our 21 year old C.  The guy who blossomed once we shipped that sad sack of shit he who won't be named out the door.

(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/disney/images/6/61/Profile_-_Queen_of_Hearts.jpeg/revision/latest?cb=20190312053228)

Your credibility as a handicapper of talent, based as it is on the Hamsterian being Priapically Pre-Occupied And Emotionally Challenged is HIGHLY SUSPECT. 

Your predictable response, of a significant stat line, by a player making a solid contribution on a WINNING TEAM, highlights from a no holds barred beat down of a team who embarrassed us  the night before, is all one needs to know about what a petty, pusillanimous little pissant the Kamster is. 

Meaning, who in actuality is the  SAD SACK OF SHIT  here? 

Tsk Tsk Tsk. 

But hey, we've taken up too much of your time. 

It's such a nice day, why waste time with vermin such as I, when you can retrieve the magnifying glass out of the secret compartment in your candy drawer, and enjoy the sunny day outside by setting fire to insects. 

(https://thesaurus.plus/img/synonyms/218/pissant.png)

PS: Shout out to a more advanced carbon-based life form, the distinguished BoD, watching one of his fantasy trade scenario all-stars, Meyers Leonard, light up the Knicks from three. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 12, 2020, 04:15:57 PM
In the Pels game, at the 8:42 mark of the 2Q, Franc hesitatingly dribbles around 27 feet out.  Looks like he doesn't want the ball.
Wants to give a handoff which is guarded.  So he takes two mincing dribbles and tries to pass to Portis at the 3 point line, whose man is overplaying and fairly easily steals the pass.   Weak, tentative, non-threatening -- a real poor perimeter turnover.  Just not an acceptable play/turnover.  I'd feel dumb if I did that in a pickup game.

This is the kind of strange feebleness Franc needs to overcome.
He has a lot to work on.  Also I don't think Franc's defense is near elite.  It's pretty good and he makes good effort.  But I don't see quick enough reflexes or enough speed and aggression which could take him to elite. 

I'm all for patience with Franc.  I'd probably start him the rest of the season.  But it doesn't help to gloss over his considerable flaws or unduly elevate his few strengths.

Btw, with Morris & Randle out, Knix started a rook and 4 journeymen (Bullock/Ellington/Portis/Taj).  Not one legit starter.
Title: KK, Knick
Post by: chipstern on January 12, 2020, 04:21:49 PM
Considering how totally some motherfuckers in the media and on this forum have given up on Kevin Knox...

Gratifying to see he HASN'T GIVEN UP ON HIMSELF. 

PS: He Is 20 Years OLD, People
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 12, 2020, 04:22:25 PM
Meyers Len can play.  He's a little slow, flatfooted, short-armed on D.  But he can give a solid 20 mins a night.

Didn't realize a gem was on.
Tune in and Portis jacks a crummy long 3 early int he shot clock.
Dummy
Title: Kadeem Allen
Post by: chipstern on January 12, 2020, 04:22:51 PM
Every time he plays, seems to make positive impact. 
Title: Question
Post by: chipstern on January 12, 2020, 04:29:11 PM
Considering how well KK seems to be playing when he is not looking over his shoulder waiting to get the hook.

Might it be worth considering some lineups where Randle plays the 5, Morris the 4 and Knox the 3?

Plenty of opportunity seeing as how the Kamster-Approved Mitchel Robinson is often in foul trouble. 

PS: Loves me some MR, but right now, have to agree with Kiid.  More an athlete than a playa.  Needs to round out his game with, oh, dare I say it, a jump shot, maybe a turnaround baby hook?  Something where we are not often reduced to 5-on-4 when he is out there.  Which is not to suggest that he isn't capable of spectacular, dominating, inspirational stretches.

PPS: But Robinson, like Knox, like Barrett...like Frank...is a PUPPY.  Much to work on. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 12, 2020, 04:33:13 PM
SOMEONE is doing a nice job on Adebayo and Duncan Robinson
Title: Mitchell Robinson Stat Line
Post by: chipstern on January 12, 2020, 05:19:39 PM
10 minutes

4 fouls

2 rebounds

2 blocks

0 points

To be continued...

GO Mitchell. 

PS: I really LIKE Kadeem Allen. 
Title: Kiid Speaks
Post by: chipstern on January 12, 2020, 05:27:19 PM
Garland outplaying RJ?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 12, 2020, 05:44:21 PM
Solid game for Reg.
Title: Reggie Bullock
Post by: chipstern on January 12, 2020, 05:44:35 PM
Man, he sure has a lightning quick release. 

Within 1. 

Come on Knicks, turn up the fucking D.

This is a winnable game.

PS: RJ hitting all his FTs. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 12, 2020, 05:55:23 PM
dumb challenge
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 12, 2020, 05:56:20 PM
Bullock's fault. Just shut the fuck up when you foul someone.  Talked the coach into it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 12, 2020, 05:56:57 PM
- "I didn't foul him"

Well, then you don't KNOW what a foul is.
Title: RJ + Hope > Character
Post by: chipstern on January 12, 2020, 05:58:24 PM
Time to miss a FT
Title: Re: RJ + Hope > Character
Post by: chipstern on January 12, 2020, 05:59:45 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 12, 2020, 05:58:24 PM
Time to miss a FT

Okay, 1-2. 

Yikes. 

Undefended trey a coming...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 12, 2020, 06:08:14 PM
Oh....the hometown clock.
Title: Good Gutsy Win
Post by: chipstern on January 12, 2020, 06:18:17 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 12, 2020, 06:08:14 PM
Oh....the hometown clock.

Great shot.

Time was CLEARLY up.

Good win. 

Eleven steals.  And 23-28 from the FT line. 

82.1%

That's how you pull out close games against better teams. 

Think we missed Julius, BoD?

26-8-4-2

Sorry about your Grammy, JR.  Blessed with that adorable little boy. 

Taj, 14-8-1-1

RJ 23-5-3-2, and 8-10 from the FT line. 

Kevin 17-5-2

Reggie 16-4-2

Elfrid 10-4-5-2 & Kadeem 10-2-1-1-1

Mitchell 2-3-1

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 12, 2020, 06:25:02 PM
Gibson 25-36 last 8 games
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 12, 2020, 06:29:38 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 12, 2020, 06:25:02 PM
Gibson 25-36 last 8 games

Always liked Taj.

Proving his worth. 

Was able to play more of his game with Julius to absorb coverage. 
Title: Mudiay
Post by: chipstern on January 12, 2020, 06:51:00 PM
EM played 30 minutes for the Jazz with 14-5-5 in win against Wiz.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 12, 2020, 07:25:43 PM
Of course we like Taj Gibson. 
Who would you rather have Gibson or the guy who shant be named?
Who would you rather have JRandle or the guy who shant be named?
Who would you rather have Mitch or the guy who shant be named?

You can't FIT everybody on this roster chip.  Who are you kicking off for Mudiay and all his cohorts from last year's stellar squad?
Title: Neigh
Post by: chipstern on January 12, 2020, 08:26:17 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 12, 2020, 07:25:43 PM
Of course we like Taj Gibson. 
Who would you rather have Gibson or the guy who shant be named?
Who would you rather have JRandle or the guy who shant be named?
Who would you rather have Mitch or the guy who shant be named?

You can't FIT everybody on this roster chip.  Who are you kicking off for Mudiay and all his cohorts from last year's stellar squad?

(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/54ad91eae4b04d2abc8d6247/1462079498456-IIJ3FN7VU46OE2US446Z/ke17ZwdGBToddI8pDm48kC9qu2gvgDc1fHZgGjPXHQ5Zw-zPPgdn4jUwVcJE1ZvWEtT5uBSRWt4vQZAgTJucoTqqXjS3CfNDSuuf31e0tVGsbjzQe8XprMihMEQ9UKdMwALN5jbWCRaeUKHWJatMjmVWdNHs25RwszbEzjDCTQI/image-asset.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/CxzRW9s.gif)
Title: Dead horse
Post by: carlos123 on January 12, 2020, 09:19:35 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 12, 2020, 08:26:17 PM
Indefatigable
(https://i.imgur.com/CxzRW9s.gif)

The guy beating the dead horse doesn't really look like the Kamster. More like this Dear Friend of our Dear Leader ...

(https://www.stripes.com/polopoly_fs/1.612883.1577675625!/image/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_900/image.jpg)

How about this?
(http://www.returnofkings.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Cutest-Beating-Dead-Horse-GIF.gif)

Hello Kamster
(https://i0.wp.com/trent.photo/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/20161214-kanter-3.gif?fit=482%2C573&ssl=1)


btw...
GREAT WIN!
Title: For One Day, Anyway
Post by: chipstern on January 12, 2020, 10:10:42 PM
Yes, Carlos, a really nice win against a top tier team, who positively humiliated us last time out. 

Terrific back and forth, neither team giving an inch, one lead change after another.  And the Garden with something to root for, coming through like it was Game 7 of the ECF. 

Great to see Taj recapture his youth, and Julius playing like a leader (and honoring his Grammy). 

Likewise, so proud of our puppies, RJ & Kevin, how purposefully they played and how no matter how low they may fall, they get up off the canvas and come back at it. 

To grow up in this league, you have to take your lumps like a man. 

AND GIVE SOME BACK. 

Who's Next?  Bring 'em on. 

"The Bucks in Milwaukee."

Oooooops.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 12, 2020, 11:24:19 PM
Julius last 8 games played

24-10-3-1-1

46/37/80
Title: Re: For One Day, Anyway
Post by: carlos123 on January 12, 2020, 11:25:00 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 12, 2020, 10:10:42 PM

Who's Next?  Bring 'em on. 

"The Bucks in Milwaukee."

Oooooops.

Don’t worry. Giannis is gonna catch the flu, Middleton sprains a toe, Bledsoe the middle finger and the Lopez brothers go on a family trip to California.

GO KNICKS!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 13, 2020, 06:15:00 AM
Randle was aggressive on both ends.  Late in the 4Q blocked Butler from behind (goaltending, but good effort) and stripped Butler who drove/spun into him.  Have to say i cringed on the 3's, including the made one which got NYK their first lead since December (joking).  But at leats that was after he scored some and was feeling good.
Breen noted that was Randle's first made 4Q 3 this season.
Would have been a better game for Randle if he didn't shoot 3's, or at least not 5 of 'em.

Definitely a fun game.  It seemed Butler sat too long and then when reinserted he was wildly off.  His best crunchtime offense was leaning in to get the deep foul on Bullock.  Bullock shot too much, but got hot and was active.

MIA got lazy and tried to rely on Herroball and Duncan banging down a ton of 3's too many trips in a row. Then they just went to Butler trying to do it all despite being way out of sync.  Too much 4Q turn taking for the Heat -- Dragic then Duncan then Herro then Butler, instead of team play and taking good shots.

Also they fouled a ton early 4Q, so Knix got FT's, which surprisingly they made.  Miss a few more and they would have lost.  James Johnson was just martial artsing people.  Finally fouled out in 21 mins, which helped since the Knix weren't matching his energy.

Nunn is a crafty scorer.  Meyers didn't take a shot after the 1Q, but made a few nifty passes.  RJB had a few stellar passes as well.
Kadeem had a nice game.  Terrible performance by Mitch.  You could feel Clyde shaking his head when Mitch went for My Leonard's headfake at the 3 point line. (4th foul I think).

Fun game.
I didn't realize Knix scored 40 in the 4Q.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 13, 2020, 06:28:50 AM
Uber: 25 & 15; 3 steals 2 blocks in 40 mins.  Game high +22.
But only 1 assist, the bum.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 13, 2020, 08:07:36 AM
Much of what Miami was "raking" late had to do with how our defense was approacjhing its task.  But they have gone the Butler route all season late - and obviously with great result.

Nice to see Knicks stamp the game late.  Crowd must have been great. 

Maybe we CAN roll with some of this cast plus the draft pick and one or two other new faces..
Title: Re: Neigh
Post by: Kam on January 13, 2020, 09:03:28 AM
Quote from: chipstern on January 12, 2020, 08:26:17 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 12, 2020, 07:25:43 PM
Of course we like Taj Gibson. 
Who would you rather have Gibson or the guy who shant be named?
Who would you rather have JRandle or the guy who shant be named?
Who would you rather have Mitch or the guy who shant be named?

You can't FIT everybody on this roster chip.  Who are you kicking off for Mudiay and all his cohorts from last year's stellar squad?

(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/54ad91eae4b04d2abc8d6247/1462079498456-IIJ3FN7VU46OE2US446Z/ke17ZwdGBToddI8pDm48kC9qu2gvgDc1fHZgGjPXHQ5Zw-zPPgdn4jUwVcJE1ZvWEtT5uBSRWt4vQZAgTJucoTqqXjS3CfNDSuuf31e0tVGsbjzQe8XprMihMEQ9UKdMwALN5jbWCRaeUKHWJatMjmVWdNHs25RwszbEzjDCTQI/image-asset.jpeg)


Where's the gif for hypocrites who are beating the dead horse but then blame others. 

The three blind mice come onto the Knicks forum after a Celtics game to post a statline for the guy they love.

I'm just the guy laughing at your love letters to your expat.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 13, 2020, 09:14:30 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 13, 2020, 08:07:36 AM
Much of what Miami was "raking" late had to do with how our defense was approaching its task.  But they have gone the Butler route all season late - and obviously with great result.

Yes and no.
Butler has been their 4Q focal point.  But games I saw he was not just calling his own number but collapsing the D and finding open guys.  Here he was just forcing bad shots.  Salvaged one ugly possession by tipping in his own miss, and got the 3 bailout FT's by jumping sideways into Bullock. 

And a bit earlier, MIA forced some Duncan and Herro 3's despite the Knix trying to spot just that.  Took them out of their game.  i'd agree the Dragic makes before that were taking what was left.

Interestingly in the 4Q both teams got deep in the shot clock frequently.  Must have been two or three Knick baskets made just before the 24 went off.  So there was some defense going on.  Just not whole possession D.
Title: Elfrid and Kadeem
Post by: Kam on January 13, 2020, 10:00:58 AM
We have found our PGs.  Guys who can score a little and defend a little.  I like it.
Title: Re: Neigh
Post by: chipstern on January 13, 2020, 10:08:52 AM
Quote from: Kam on January 13, 2020, 09:03:28 AM
Quote from: chipstern on January 12, 2020, 08:26:17 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 12, 2020, 07:25:43 PM
Of course we like Taj Gibson. 
Who would you rather have Gibson or the guy who shant be named?
Who would you rather have JRandle or the guy who shant be named?
Who would you rather have Mitch or the guy who shant be named?

You can't FIT everybody on this roster chip.  Who are you kicking off for Mudiay and all his cohorts from last year's stellar squad?

(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/54ad91eae4b04d2abc8d6247/1462079498456-IIJ3FN7VU46OE2US446Z/ke17ZwdGBToddI8pDm48kC9qu2gvgDc1fHZgGjPXHQ5Zw-zPPgdn4jUwVcJE1ZvWEtT5uBSRWt4vQZAgTJucoTqqXjS3CfNDSuuf31e0tVGsbjzQe8XprMihMEQ9UKdMwALN5jbWCRaeUKHWJatMjmVWdNHs25RwszbEzjDCTQI/image-asset.jpeg)


Where's the gif for hypocrites who are beating the dead horse but then blame others. 

The three blind mice come onto the Knicks forum after a Celtics game to post a statline for the guy they love.

I'm just the guy laughing at your love letters to your expat.

"SAD SACK OF SHIT."

Yes, just enjoying a lighthearted chuckle. 

B

S
Title: Kenny Wooten
Post by: chipstern on January 13, 2020, 10:18:30 AM
Sure hope Knicks make a move to lock him up, or we are going to lose this high flyer. 

Ellington would seem expendable with the emergence of Bullock. 
Title: Re: Neigh
Post by: Kam on January 13, 2020, 10:42:15 AM
Quote from: chipstern on January 13, 2020, 10:08:52 AM
Quote from: Kam on January 13, 2020, 09:03:28 AM
Quote from: chipstern on January 12, 2020, 08:26:17 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 12, 2020, 07:25:43 PM
Of course we like Taj Gibson. 
Who would you rather have Gibson or the guy who shant be named?
Who would you rather have JRandle or the guy who shant be named?
Who would you rather have Mitch or the guy who shant be named?

You can't FIT everybody on this roster chip.  Who are you kicking off for Mudiay and all his cohorts from last year's stellar squad?

(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/54ad91eae4b04d2abc8d6247/1462079498456-IIJ3FN7VU46OE2US446Z/ke17ZwdGBToddI8pDm48kC9qu2gvgDc1fHZgGjPXHQ5Zw-zPPgdn4jUwVcJE1ZvWEtT5uBSRWt4vQZAgTJucoTqqXjS3CfNDSuuf31e0tVGsbjzQe8XprMihMEQ9UKdMwALN5jbWCRaeUKHWJatMjmVWdNHs25RwszbEzjDCTQI/image-asset.jpeg)


Where's the gif for hypocrites who are beating the dead horse but then blame others. 

The three blind mice come onto the Knicks forum after a Celtics game to post a statline for the guy they love.

I'm just the guy laughing at your love letters to your expat.

"SAD SACK OF SHIT."

Yes, just enjoying a lighthearted chuckle. 

B

S

I crossed it out.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 13, 2020, 11:15:59 AM
Cute.

Sort of how crossing off someone's name on gang graffiti marks them for death. 

Own your douchebaggery. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 13, 2020, 12:09:33 PM
The heat just opened a two-way spot by bringing up Silva on a three year deal. They might now try to coax Wooten to take his talents to south beach.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 13, 2020, 12:17:10 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 13, 2020, 12:09:33 PM
The heat just opened a two-way spot by bringing up Silva on a three year deal. They might now try to coax Wooten to take his talents to south beach.

Wooten Could Be Robinson 2.1

Be a shame to sleep on his hops, energy and defensive upside. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 13, 2020, 12:52:08 PM
Look for third team - get Kuzma from Lakers using Mitch
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 13, 2020, 12:55:53 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 13, 2020, 12:52:08 PM
Look for third team - get Kuzma from Lakers using Mitch

That’s dumber than a team taking Ball over Tatum when both were available.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 13, 2020, 01:32:45 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 13, 2020, 11:15:59 AM

Sort of how crossing off someone's name on gang graffiti marks them for death. 


Whoa....    more fiber bro.  I keep tellin you.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 13, 2020, 02:34:36 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 13, 2020, 12:55:53 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 13, 2020, 12:52:08 PM
Look for third team - get Kuzma from Lakers using Mitch

That’s dumber than a team taking Ball over Tatum when both were available.

heh

Mitch the mental midget
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 13, 2020, 02:35:26 PM
He'll be the new Camby when he's gone.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 13, 2020, 02:46:02 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 13, 2020, 06:28:50 AM
Uber: 25 & 15; 3 steals 2 blocks in 40 mins.  Game high +22.
But only 1 assist, the bum.

Another big game for Ayton.  Booker off.  Good looking young team.  But can they use their $$ wisely enough?
Title: Wooten: There it is.
Post by: Kam on January 13, 2020, 06:34:54 PM
The Knicks have paved the way for shot-blocking power forward Kenny Wooten to get some time in the NBA.

The Knicks are waiving Ivan Rabb, their two-way contract player, an NBA source confirmed.
Title: Re: Wooten: There it is.
Post by: chipstern on January 13, 2020, 06:37:48 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 13, 2020, 06:34:54 PM
The Knicks have paved the way for shot-blocking power forward Kenny Wooten to get some time in the NBA.

The Knicks are waiving Ivan Rabb, their two-way contract player, an NBA source confirmed.

YeS
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 13, 2020, 06:38:31 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 13, 2020, 02:46:02 PM
Good looking young team.  But can they use their $$ wisely enough?

Well, they had a very nice off-season.
Re-upped blossoming Uber.
Added a quality PG in Rubio.  Addressing a real weak spot last year
Added burly vet Baynes.  Especially important since Ayton got suspended.
Those two vets helped stabilize a young team.

They traded down from the #6 pick (Culver) to get Saric and sweet shooting Cam Johnson (#11 pick).
Saric has underperformed so far, but he's still a young (25) useful piece on a cheap contract.  Saric (and Tank) were supposed to be the spacing/outside shooting Bigs.

It's also clear what they need for next year.
Certainly a backup PG.  They have none and Rubio gets dinged up.
They could use a combo guard or SG, to back up Book and provide bench shooting.  And probably another bench vet (maybe at SG)

Next, re-up Baynes.  And decide if Saric or Tank are the stretch 4 they need.  And who pairs with Ayton well.  Otherwise find more outside shooting.  The nice thing is they now have a roadmap, so they know what they need.
Rubio - Book - Uber - ?? - Ayton is a strong young core.
Is Saric the starting 4 they need?  In theory, yes.
Bridges/Cam - Baynes - Tank (?) make for a solid bench core.
Just need to add some quality G's to that.  Maybe a hungry young PG and a vet SG.

My problem with the Knix is we have such a mishmash of vets and yute with ill-defined skill sets, that I don't know what we need or what direction we will go in.  Okay, it's abundantly clear that the Knix need a starting caliber PG.  And we need 3-point shooters.
And defenders.  Sort of everything really.  Morris and Randle our only two legit starters and they don't really complement each other.  And Morris will be gone unless the Knix overpay (4 year at big $$).  We're a mess.  PHX has a bright future.
Title: Rabb
Post by: chipstern on January 13, 2020, 06:51:24 PM
Not sure how it works, but I suppose if no one claims Rabb, they can re-purpose him as a non-TwoWay G Leaguer. 

https://www.slamonline.com/nba/new-york-to-sign-kenny-wooten-to-two-way-deal/ (https://www.slamonline.com/nba/new-york-to-sign-kenny-wooten-to-two-way-deal/)

Wooten is not a savior. 

Was converted Free Throws at a .672% as a sophomore. 

More like .575% as a West-Knick. 

Over 24 minutes in 23 games, his close to the basket finishes amount to .660%. 

Otherwise, 5.9 boards, 1.2 assists, 0.7 steals and, wait for it, 3.4 blocks. 

He turns 22 on April 17. 

Is a sculpted 6'8" 235. 

Again, quite raw, but plays with considerable intensity, has a serious motor, and FUCKING HOPS. 

Finding both Wooten AND Robinson under his XMAS Tree, should extend Taj Gibson's tenure as a Knick. 

PS: So apparently Mills & Perry were not completely oblivious.  Don't believe it is a done deal, yet, but seems to be in play. 

PPS: Phewwwwwwww....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 13, 2020, 06:54:06 PM
Good, we were running short of PF's . . .
Title: BoD
Post by: chipstern on January 13, 2020, 06:59:04 PM
Why so motherfucking dire?

Randle Numbers would seem apros pos.

JR: 18, 18.9, 19.8

He wants to be here, and he seems to have Knicks DNA. 

Don't particularly agree about them not complementing each other. 

We are still very much in getting to know you mode. 

And we have seen growth from both Julius and Marcus. 

I mean 18-20 million would upset you? 

Who EXACTLY do the Knicks have on the Free Agency Radar?

Giannis?

Anthony Davis?

Try...

NoBODY.
Title: Doeful BoD Doe D Doe
Post by: chipstern on January 13, 2020, 07:02:38 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 13, 2020, 06:54:06 PM
Good, we were running short of PF's . . .

Ah me...

Why so glum chum? 

I do believe Wooten is projected as an undersized Center, a la Taj.

And aren't you The Prophet Of Transactions? 

Be bold. 

Trade some PFs. 

We're all ears. 

Surely Perry & Mills are listening? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 13, 2020, 07:07:06 PM
Would gladly trade Morris to a playoff team and commit to Randle.
Acquiring more young assets.  Or ship out Randle and commit to Morris.

Get Chris Paul if possible.  Or Dinwiddie.  Or ... ?

Let's hope our next draft pick can make a 3-pointer.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 13, 2020, 07:17:48 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 13, 2020, 07:07:06 PM
Would gladly trade Morris to a playoff team and commit to Randle.
Acquiring more young assets.  Or ship out Randle and commit to Morris.

Get Chris Paul if possible.  Or Dinwiddie.  Or ... ?

Let's hope our next draft pick can make a 3-pointer.

Amen to that. 

Hey, what if it's Wiseman? 

Otherwise, I love Chris Paul, but give me a fucking break.  How does that make any sense?  He still has game, but look at OKC and where they are in the evolutionary process, and where we are.  Not to mention, THAT SALARY? 

And the Nyets are not trading Spencer, never-mind trading ANYONE to the Knicks. 

Keep trying.  I know you've got it in you.  Scott and Steve are counting on you. 

We know this much...SOME MOVES ARE COMING. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 13, 2020, 07:22:59 PM
Chris Paul would stabilize our team, make us more competitive, and let us properly evaluate and develop our yute. 
Title: Re: Wooten: There it is.
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 13, 2020, 07:44:22 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 13, 2020, 06:37:48 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 13, 2020, 06:34:54 PM
The Knicks have paved the way for shot-blocking power forward Kenny Wooten to get some time in the NBA.

The Knicks are waiving Ivan Rabb, their two-way contract player, an NBA source confirmed.

YeS

Pretty basic maneuver

Good luck, Ivan.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 13, 2020, 07:51:40 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 13, 2020, 07:07:06 PM
Would gladly trade Morris to a playoff team and commit to Randle.
Acquiring more young assets.  Or ship out Randle and commit to Morris.

Get Chris Paul if possible.  Or Dinwiddie.  Or ... ?

Let's hope our next draft pick can make a 3-pointer.

30% on 3 pointers = 45% on 2s. 

Barret's 2 pt% is .427

So he scores 8.54 points every ten 2 point shots

And 9.18 points (.306) every ten threes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 13, 2020, 08:52:01 PM
Chip

OKC has young players
Title: One of the three blind mice
Post by: carlos123 on January 13, 2020, 09:22:20 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 13, 2020, 09:03:28 AM

The three blind mice come onto the Knicks forum after a Celtics game to post a statline for the guy they love.


Coming before the end of a Celtics game

At halftime, ur friend Enes on pace for 30 points. How about that?
(https://www.corvetteforum.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Cutest-Beating-Dead-Horse-GIF.gif)
Hamster beating a dead horse 😉

PS. Don't forge we love u2 😍
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 13, 2020, 09:29:32 PM
Another poor shooting game for Tatum
Title: Re: One of the three blind mice
Post by: lesterluv on January 13, 2020, 09:40:32 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 13, 2020, 09:22:20 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 13, 2020, 09:03:28 AM

The three blind mice come onto the Knicks forum after a Celtics game to post a statline for the guy they love.


Coming before the end of a Celtics game

At halftime, ur friend Enes on pace for 30 points. How about that?
(https://www.corvetteforum.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Cutest-Beating-Dead-Horse-GIF.gif)
Hamster beating a dead horse 😉

PS. Don't forge we love u2 😍

You left out the most impressive part...holding Luke Kornet SCORELESS, LK with a game worst - 24 in 22 MINUTES, he can't handle the...

pure turkish power
Title: Hey Bank
Post by: carlos123 on January 13, 2020, 09:53:28 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 13, 2020, 09:29:32 PM
Another poor shooting game for Tatum

Bank, this is ur baby. I take a back seat when it comes to Tatum and Chico.
Title: Hey Kamster
Post by: carlos123 on January 13, 2020, 09:59:30 PM
Enes didn't score in the second half. Feast on that!
Signed: one of the three blind mice

Nevertheless ...

Quote from: lesterluv on January 13, 2020, 09:40:32 PM

You left out the most impressive part...holding Luke Kornet SCORELESS, LK with a game worst - 24 in 22 MINUTES, he can't handle the...

pure turkish power

Signed: another of the three blind mice

Wow, that's POWERFUL!

PS. I wouldn't mind Marcus Smart on my team.
Title: Re: Hey Bank
Post by: bankshot1 on January 13, 2020, 10:37:56 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 13, 2020, 09:53:28 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 13, 2020, 09:29:32 PM
Another poor shooting game for Tatum

Bank, this is ur baby. I take a back seat when it comes to Tatum and Chico.

Carlos-kid is not my baby, I'll take a blood test if necessary.

He's just a baby and a troll. Rather than admit he was hasty in his opinion, he feels compelled to double down in stupidity.

And if kid insists on parading his ignorance that fine with me.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 13, 2020, 11:04:49 PM
Tatum shoots 8-20, 5-16 and 4-13 and not a peep out of Bank
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on January 13, 2020, 11:23:45 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 13, 2020, 11:04:49 PM
Tatum shoots 8-20, 5-16 and 4-13 and not a peep out of Bank

I had him as 7 for 17, including 2 for 7 on 3s, which means 5 for 10 on 2's

So other than you having a problem reading a box score-what should I say?

He had 21 points in 30 minutes.with 6 boards, a few assists and couple of blocks and steals.

A solid game 2-way game for Tatum.

and the Celts won

He's a star in the making, that you don't see it is your loss.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 13, 2020, 11:32:57 PM
Tough game for Ball tonight, despite narrowly missing a triple double once again.

7-23 with 7 turnovers

I do love what they are doing with him - tonight playing near 46 minutes

I think its safe to deal Holiday
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on January 14, 2020, 12:38:01 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on January 13, 2020, 11:23:45 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 13, 2020, 11:04:49 PM
Tatum shoots 8-20, 5-16 and 4-13 and not a peep out of Bank

I had him as 7 for 17, including 2 for 7 on 3s, which means 5 for 10 on 2's

So other than you having a problem reading a box score-what should I say?

He had 21 points in 30 minutes.with 6 boards, a few assists and couple of blocks and steals.

A solid game 2-way game for Tatum.

and the Celts won

He's a star in the making, that you don't see it is your loss.

I knew you wouldn’t fail your non-baby Chico Cartero 👶

I’m proud of you. Ur a good daddy 👨🏼‍🦳
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 14, 2020, 04:42:43 AM
W00t to the two-way, bringing his expanding pogo game. Ivan Raab we hardly knew ya.

He gives us a different look and dimension, but this shouldn’t preclude us from pursuing moves for another experienced and effective back line defender.

This does not mean taking on Drummond and definitely not at the cost of any draft picks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 14, 2020, 06:24:48 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 14, 2020, 04:42:43 AM
W00t to the two-way, bringing his expanding pogo game. Ivan Raab we hardly knew ya.

He gives us a different look and dimension, but this shouldn’t preclude us from pursuing moves for another experienced and effective back line defender.

This does not mean taking on Drummond and definitely not at the cost of any draft picks.

Drummond is a stellar rebounder, but does not seem to influence the game so impactfully as his stats might suggest, certainly not on offense nor at the cost of multiple draft picks and his salary...now or in the future.  During all his years in Detroit, only one winning season. 

But that's just me. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 14, 2020, 08:18:04 AM
This does not mean taking on Drummond and definitely not at the cost of any draft picks.


I am open to anything using the Dallas picks
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 14, 2020, 08:19:21 AM
During all his years in Detroit....


Drummomd never played with Julius Randle
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on January 14, 2020, 10:46:10 AM
Coaching has improved knix just need talent.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 14, 2020, 10:57:46 AM
Drummond & Randle, a fine pairing . . . if this were the 1980's.

Bulldog Drummond will be an RFA this Summer.
So why give up any real assets for him now.
Unless we want to jettison Randle or trade Morris figuring we can't/won't re-sign him.

I think Drummond is a complete wrong target for us.  But if you want him, sign him as a FA.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 14, 2020, 11:25:04 AM
Quote
At 21 years, 185 days old, Shai became the youngest player in league history to record at least 20 points, 20 rebounds and 10 assists in a game.

Gilgeous-Alexander is the fourth second-year player in NBA history to register a 20-20 triple-double. He joins Shaquille O'Neal, Charles Barkley and Oscar Robertson. The only other guard to have a 20-20 triple-double in the past 30 seasons is former Thunder star Russell Westbrook.

Future all-star.
And why Chris Paul and his mammoth contract are expendable.
I'd trade them Randle, Portis and Trier for CP3.  Or whatever.
Re-up Morris.
Go into next year with:
CP3 - RJB - Knox - Morris - Mitch
Bench: FRanc - Dot - Taj - Top 10 draft pick.
Fill out with some cheap vet pickups.   Bullock type journeymen who can play some.  Find a guy who can stroke 3's.
A much more balanced team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 14, 2020, 01:15:40 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 14, 2020, 11:25:04 AM
Quote
At 21 years, 185 days old, Shai became the youngest player in league history to record at least 20 points, 20 rebounds and 10 assists in a game.

Gilgeous-Alexander is the fourth second-year player in NBA history to register a 20-20 triple-double. He joins Shaquille O'Neal, Charles Barkley and Oscar Robertson. The only other guard to have a 20-20 triple-double in the past 30 seasons is former Thunder star Russell Westbrook.

Future all-star.
And why Chris Paul and his mammoth contract are expendable.
I'd trade them Randle, Portis and Trier for CP3.  Or whatever.
Re-up Morris.
Go into next year with:
CP3 - RJB - Knox - Morris - Mitch
Bench: FRanc - Dot - Taj - Top 10 draft pick.
Fill out with some cheap vet pickups.   Bullock type journeymen who can play some.  Find a guy who can stroke 3's.
A much more balanced team.

You surely do have a hard on for Julius Randle. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 14, 2020, 01:18:05 PM
 Shai, shai, shaiiiiiii

Shai shai shai................

Good player

Numbers read like Mudiay
Title: CP3
Post by: Kam on January 14, 2020, 01:31:19 PM
Count my vote for this dude, if he wants this assignment, to come here and instill a culture and piss off the ones who can't cut it.  Be our Jason Kidd circa 2014.  The contract has two more years on it.  All boosters of DSJ and Frank should want CP3 to mentor these cats for a year or so.  Can't think of a better veteran.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 14, 2020, 02:03:35 PM
Interesting

Lonzo Ball
381 points from 383 shots

Jayson Tatum
680 points on 687 shots
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 14, 2020, 02:10:44 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 14, 2020, 01:15:40 PM
You surely do have a hard on for Julius Randle.

I'd trade also them Morris and keep Randle, but they might prefer the younger guy under contract (Randle) to go with their yute.  Especially since Gallo will be a FA, so with Morris that'd be two guys they need to sign.  But Morris fits better next to Grizzly Adams, then does Randle.  Othersowise I think Morris is better than Randle (objectively so this season).

You have to give up something to get Paul.  You also need to send out alot of salary.  I think that's a reasonable deal for OKC.  They get a starter in Randle, a look at Portis and some extra asset such as Trier who can be a bench sparkplug (or Ellington).  They get $15M in cap space when Portis expires this summer.  Or they can opt in and keep him for $15M (unlikely, I'd think).  If they like him, more likely try to sign him for 3/$30M or less (3/$25M more reasonable imo).

OKC already has 2 PG's in Shai and Shroeder.  So they can move Paul for a starter and/or just to get the cap space.  Sell High moment for CP3, before he breaks down and his contract looks hideous again.  I'm not much of a CP3 fan.  Think he's annoying, breaks down often and chokes in the clutch.  But he still is a quality starting PG and could mentor some of our pups.  Also provides leadership (important, especially if Morris leaves or is traded away).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 14, 2020, 02:12:28 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 14, 2020, 02:03:35 PM
Lonzo Ball ...

Jayson Tatum ...

In the Trump Error, it's not enough to double down, you have to brashly triple-down.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 14, 2020, 02:44:00 PM
Quote
According to various reports, the Philadelphia 76ers and both Los Angeles teams are among the contenders inquiring about Marcus Morris, the Minnesota Timberwolves are on the list of teams eyeing Dennis Smith Jr., and Bobby Portis is drawing interest, too.

The Knicks have also entered the Andre Drummond sweepstakes, per multiple reports. According to Vince Ellis of the Detroit Free Press, the Pistons requested Julius Randle and Frank Ntilikina in a return package.

If Drummond were under contract, that could be reasonable.  But he's expected to opt out (of $28M!) and be looking for a huge long deal.  And could choose a better team in FA.  I don't want Drummond, and would certainly wait for Summer FA if I did. 

Only makes sense if Knix are set on dumping Randle and re-signing Morris.  Then the cost to get Drummond is really only Franc (and all the cap space it takes to re-sign Bulldog Drummond).  And if we want to keep Franc, offer them Jr. Smith or Trier, etc instead.  Would they really hold up the trade because they only got Randle + Smith instead of the great Franc
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 14, 2020, 03:35:12 PM
Quote
Kanter is planning to open a charter school, the “Enes Kanter School for Exceptional Learning,” in the Oklahoma City area, according to The Oklahoman. He and a team of “civic-minded individuals” will officially submit their application to the school district on Tuesday, where it can then go before the school board for a vote.

“Despite playing for other teams, I continue to return to Oklahoma City to host my annual basketball summer camps and to support programs that serve the OKC children,” Kanter wrote in a letter to the school district, via The Oklahoman. “Through my foundation, my philanthropic activities extend to all of the cities where I have played for: Utah, Portland, New York, and Boston.”

Kanter said he has not yet selected a location for the school, but that they will hopefully open it where “the need is high.” It will also be designed for “under-served minority and immigrant students,”
Title: Hey Chip
Post by: carlos123 on January 14, 2020, 03:37:29 PM
Please say something. All these crazy trades are killing the high I had from beating Miami. So glad none of these traders are on the FO. They’re making perrymills look really, really good.

Can’t take it the same day we’re gonna be drubbed in Milwaukee. That’s enough for one day.
Title: Ahhhhh So, Bo
Post by: chipstern on January 14, 2020, 03:42:42 PM
A critique of Pendejo Trades? 

Your wish is my command, Don Carlos. 

So...BO...it's not a hard on for Julius Randle.

Rather, THAT HE REPRESENTS A REDUNDANCY. 

Ahhhh, so....

And thus, in acquiring a player who will turn THIRTY-FIVE [35] in May, is owed a cap space friendly $38, $41, $44 million through 2022, and who played a total of 61, 58 and 58 games over the prior three season, we would be stabilizing our roster.  And give away arguably the best player on our team, arguably entering this primacy, with another 5-7 years of productive ball ahead. 

The last time the Knicks engaged in such a clever bit of roster balancing was 30 years ago, when the BoD of our front office, Al Bianchi, in another memorable path towards stabilizing our roster and removing redundancies (huh?), traded 23 year old Rod Strickland for 33 year old Mo Cheeks.  We got a season and change out of Mo's Earthly Remains, while Hot Rod went on to have a solid 10 years as a front line player, and another five as a capable roll player.  (Rod also had a number of season where injuries too their toll.)

Only chin music, after all, a dull day between games, but, I am unmoved by the "logic" of putting all of our eggs in such a cap-consuming, oft-injured, geriatric basket, my love for CP3 notwithstanding. 

With all due respect to Doc Diddley, maybe if we had off-loaded all of the assets we did for Carmelo for PAUL, back in the day, the positive influence of which you speak would have been a reality. 

Now it is the ghost dance of a dying tribe on the Great Plains. 

And so, presently, in the fear and sow, let me catch my breath and exhale in anticipation of tonight's savage beat down at the hands of the Bucks. 
Title: Re: Ahhhhh So, Bo
Post by: chipstern on January 14, 2020, 04:14:55 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 14, 2020, 03:42:42 PM
A critique of Pendejo Trades? 

Your wish is my command, Don Carlos. 

So...BO...it's not a hard on for Julius Randle.

Rather, THAT HE REPRESENTS A REDUNDANCY. 

Ahhhh, so....

And thus, in acquiring a player who will turn THIRTY-FIVE [35] in May, is owed a cap space friendly $38, $41, $44 million through 2022, and who played a total of 61, 58 and 58 games over the prior three season, we would be stabilizing our roster.  And give away arguably the best player on our team, arguably entering this primacy, with another 5-7 years of productive ball ahead. 

The last time the Knicks engaged in such a clever bit of roster balancing was 30 years ago, when the BoD of our front office, Al Bianchi, in another memorable path towards stabilizing our roster and removing redundancies (huh?), traded 23 year old Rod Strickland for 33 year old Mo Cheeks.  We got a season and change out of Mo's Earthly Remains, while Hot Rod went on to have a solid 10 years as a front line player, and another five as a capable roll player.  (Rod also had a number of season where injuries too their toll.)

Only chin music, after all, a dull day between games, but, I am unmoved by the "logic" of putting all of our eggs in such a cap-consuming, oft-injured, geriatric basket, my love for CP3 notwithstanding. 

With all due respect to Doc Diddley, maybe if we had off-loaded all of the assets we did for Carmelo for PAUL, back in the day, the positive influence of which you speak would have been a reality. 

Now it is the ghost dance of a dying tribe on the Great Plains. 

And so, presently, in the fear and sow, let me catch my breath and exhale in anticipation of tonight's savage beat down at the hands of the Bucks.

PS: BoD is a thoughtful and devoted fan, and we simply agree to disagree.  If some of his projection strike on as, oh, ___________, well, losing and wildly inconsistent hoops will do that to even the most conscientious of fans.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 14, 2020, 05:00:06 PM
Randle and Frank?  No first rounder? 

Maybe thats true.

Well, lets start with I think Knicks signed Randle for good reason - and dont wish to detour from that

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 14, 2020, 05:03:45 PM
With Knicks seemingly willing to add Drummonds 28 mil for next year (should he opt in) - this at least signals we are trying to build something, not just clear out everyone for cap space

Title: Thanks Chip
Post by: carlos123 on January 14, 2020, 05:05:38 PM
Now I feel better.

As for the drubbing tonight, I’ll probably switch to the dem. debate after contemplating one hour of beat-down by Giannis & Co. Afraid he didn’t catch the flu, as I was hoping for.

PS. Trading for Drummond just as crazy, if not more, than trading for CP3. Nervous about what perrymills may do. First, I don’t want him on my team. Second, if they do, like BoZ said, wait for free agency.
Title: As Things Presently Stand...EMBRACE THE PAIN
Post by: chipstern on January 14, 2020, 06:39:15 PM
I like the Julius Randle signing, and the arc of his improvement.  He is a solid presence, good for 20-10-5 on many a night. 

[Some beg to differ] 

We got LUCKY with Marcus Morris.  Blossomed into another level with an opportunity to lead.  Snarky and can hit the trey.

[Cash him in]

Taj

[Can one truly ever have too many good undersized center/forwards?]

Reggie Bullock is tied up for two years at like 4.5.  He plays D and can really hit the trey. 

[No comments?]

Otherwise?

Our PG Scrum?

Wish Elfrid could hit from outside, but like his court vision and D. 

Wish Frankie could build on his growth with consistency, but appreciate his defense and his evolution as a facilitator, as in his hook-up with Mitchell (only 21, folks).

Dennis?  I don't know what to say.  Loved his penetration and aggression last season.  Jinxed this year, and still not Mister Dependable from outside or the FT line.  Can't shake the feeling that if we jettison him, he will blossom from afar, and haunt us in Garden visits. 

Kadeem Allen.  Color me crazy, but I like him best.  Can create his own offense, and every time he has been given some daylight, he has delivered.  He and Elfrid made for a nice platoon against Miami. 

Elfrid, Frankie, Dennis, Kadeem.  So...who stays and who goes?  PS: Fuck Chris Paul. 

RJ.  Has the makings of a really good wing.  Every time he crashes and burns, he comes back with more determination.  Yes, those were two big FTs he clanged at crunch time, but he got to the line ten times (impressive), drained eight (as one would hope for someone capable of getting to the stripe ten times a game), and set a really aggressive tone from the opening bell against a team with some tough wings of their own.  Clyde & Wally suggest the mechanics of his shooting are pure, but both feel he is  just looking for confidence and consistency.  Character Person & A Fierce COMPETITOR. 

Kevin.  Like RJ, searching for consistency.  Was proud of his game, coming off the pine for Reggie, and showing more in his offensive quiver than just a spot up J.  More focused on D, and getting boards.  Love his athleticism.  Let's see him do it again.  AND AGAIN. 

Mitchell?  Feast or Famine.  Offers nuclear impact or takes himself out of the game with tadpole mistakes.  I like the idea of him and Kenny Wooten going at it in practice.  Two rim-protector/rim-rockers with strong defensive potential. 

Facil & BoD's Neighborhood:  Portis, Ellington, Dotson, Trier, a PG...another PG.  All possible pieces in possible transactions.  I like Bobby Portis.  His D and mental focus tends to wander, but he competes hard if not always smart, and seems like every third game lights it up from trey.  Would like to keep him, but he could make sense for some team looking for depth in a stretch four. 

Not sure what is on the horizon, deal wise, but would expect the Knicks to do something. 

No, Kiid, I would not be tossing around the Dallas picks.  Probably mid first rounders at best, but you never know.  Luca looks like the Second Coming, and KP solid when he's on the court, but how often is he not on the court. 

The draft this summer? 

Edwards.

Ball.

Edwards projected as a really tough talented combo guard, a la Donovan Mitchell. 

Ball?  Kiid swears by him.  Remains to be seen.  His fucking father concerns me. 

At #3 NBA Draft.Net as center Wiseman dropping to us.  That would be a nice platoon, and he might have the makings of an Anthony Davis Stretch 4-5. 

Who

FUCKING

Knows

?

I am hoping Scott & Steve don't get too fucking ambitious before the deadline.  Drummond?  What if we end up with Robinson AND Wiseman?  In any event.  WAIT UNTIL FREE AGENCY.  Chris Paul.  Sweet Merciful Jesus...NO. 

We do need to kind of thin out the herd don't we.  I really like Dotson and Trier, but both seem redundant in light of Barrett and Bullock.  And remains to be seen if Knicks project Frank as a sixth man/off guard/3& D wing.  Has the D, what of the 3? 

Our roster is such a fucking make it up as you go mish mosh. 

We all want some sense of...balance...stability...coherence. 

As if we had...A FUCKING PLAN. 

I hesitate to say...PATIENCE, as I can recall saying that with some regularity for 20 fucking years. 

What I MOST DEFINITELY DO NOT WANT, is to freak out and trade draft picks, or go for quick fixes.  If we had a more coherent roster, and a clearer idea of what we look like moving forward, someone like Chris Paul would seem like less of a fucking reach, an act of desperation at the sight of a shiny object.  Still a very fine player, and while whistling in the graveyard, well past his salad daze.  Chauncey Billups anyone? 

Anyway, bring on the Bucks and EMBRACE THE FUCKING PAIN.

To Be A Knicks Fan Is To Suffer.  Take your beatdowns like a man...AND GIVE SOME BACK. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 14, 2020, 07:14:38 PM
I wouldn't say I swear by LaMelo Ball.

And Lavar's fingers have been out of the pie

Enjoy the game.  Must contain Donte.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 14, 2020, 07:29:11 PM
NETS need a statement win to start believing again.  Utah at home tonight
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 14, 2020, 08:40:30 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 14, 2020, 07:14:38 PM
I wouldn't say I swear by LaMelo Ball.

And Lavar's fingers have been out of the pie

Enjoy the game.  Must contain Donte.

Heh.

Get a grip.

Giannis and Bledsoe...maybe.
Title: Dante's Inferno
Post by: chipstern on January 14, 2020, 09:51:30 PM
OK, Dante is nice.

But, really...

GIANNIS 

MVP

I mean, really. 

Down 32 entering the 4th quarter.

How'd Breen put it? 

(https://cdn.theyeshivaworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/wild-arrest-caught-on-video-e1547402208180.jpg)

"Knicks are getting bludgeoned."
Title: Re: As Things Presently Stand...EMBRACE THE PAIN
Post by: FWK00 on January 14, 2020, 10:54:08 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 14, 2020, 06:39:15 PM
I like the Julius Randle signing, and the arc of his improvement.  He is a solid presence, good for 20-10-5 on many a night. 

[Some beg to differ]


[/quote}

Okay.  That's my que.  I beg to differ.  It's nice that Randle is playing more respectably but he's simply not a building block.  No charisma, limited talent, and certainly not worth getting sentimental about.

Does it matter if we keep him for the season?  Well, yeah.  We can lose without him giving someone else those minutes - say, Gibson - worst case.

Quote from: chipstern on January 14, 2020, 06:39:15 PM

We got LUCKY with Marcus Morris.  Blossomed into another level with an opportunity to lead.  Snarky and can hit the trey.

[Cash him in]



No.  Not unless its an outstanding deal.  He's a Knick.  He's got charisma, plays hard, loves the Garden... AND... AND... AND.... delivers.

What can you cash him in for that gives you fair trade?  Better be damned good.


Quote from: chipstern on January 14, 2020, 06:39:15 PM

-snip-

Reggie Bullock is tied up for two years at like 4.5.  He plays D and can really hit the trey. 

[No comments?]


A bubble player.  Won't last the summer.

Quote from: chipstern on January 14, 2020, 06:39:15 PM

Otherwise?

Our PG Scrum?

Wish Elfrid could -snip- Wish Frankie could -snip-

Dennis?  I don't know what to say.  Loved his penetration and aggression last season.  Jinxed this year, and still not Mister Dependable from outside or the FT line.  Can't shake the feeling that if we jettison him, he will blossom from afar, and haunt us in Garden visits. 

Kadeem Allen.  Color me crazy, but I like him best.  Can create his own offense, and every time he has been given some daylight, he has delivered.  He and Elfrid made for a nice platoon against Miami. 

Elfrid, Frankie, Dennis, Kadeem.  So...who stays and who goes?  PS: Fuck Chris Paul. 

IMO, Frankie's the keeper.  DSJ most disposable.

Quote from: chipstern on January 14, 2020, 06:39:15 PM

RJ.  Has the makings of a really good wing.  -snip-  Character Person & A Fierce COMPETITOR. 

Kevin.  Like RJ, searching for consistency.  Was proud of his game, coming off the pine for Reggie, and showing more in his offensive quiver than just a spot up J.  More focused on D, and getting boards.  Love his athleticism.  Let's see him do it again.  AND AGAIN. 

Mitchell?  Feast or Famine.  Offers nuclear impact or takes himself out of the game with tadpole mistakes.  I like the idea of him and Kenny Wooten going at it in practice.  Two rim-protector/rim-rockers with strong defensive potential. 

Kevin is the most valuable, most replaceable asset.  Could go either way.

Quote from: chipstern on January 14, 2020, 06:39:15 PM

Facil & BoD's Neighborhood:  Portis, Ellington, Dotson, Trier, a PG...another PG.  All possible pieces in possible transactions. 

I'd trade Knox before Dotson or Trier though any one of them could/should be traded assuming the return warrants the risk.

Quote from: chipstern on January 14, 2020, 06:39:15 PM

Not sure what is on the horizon, deal wise, but would expect the Knicks to do something. 

No, Kiid, I would not be tossing around the Dallas picks.  Probably mid first rounders at best, but you never know.

-snip-

Who

FUCKING

Knows

?

I am hoping Scott & Steve don't get too fucking ambitious before the deadline. 

No. They should continue to be ambitious and follow through with their plan which was to keep the worthwhile summer signees and clear out the rest one way or another.

Quote from: chipstern on January 14, 2020, 06:39:15 PM



Drummond?  What if we end up with Robinson AND Wiseman?  In any event.  WAIT UNTIL FREE AGENCY.  Chris Paul.  Sweet Merciful Jesus...NO. 

We do need to kind of thin out the herd don't we.  I really like Dotson and Trier, but both seem redundant in light of Barrett and Bullock.  And remains to be seen if Knicks project Frank as a sixth man/off guard/3& D wing.  Has the D, what of the 3? 

Our roster is such a fucking make it up as you go mish mosh. 

We all want some sense of...balance...stability...coherence. 

As if we had...A FUCKING PLAN. 

I hesitate to say...PATIENCE, as I can recall saying that with some regularity for 20 fucking years. 

What I MOST DEFINITELY DO NOT WANT, is to freak out and trade draft picks, or go for quick fixes.  If we had a more coherent roster, and a clearer idea of what we look like moving forward, someone like Chris Paul would seem like less of a fucking reach, an act of desperation at the sight of a shiny object.  Still a very fine player, and while whistling in the graveyard, well past his salad daze.  Chauncey Billups anyone? 

-snip-

Right, no quick fixes.  *Continuous improvement*

I'm okay with Drummond - go get Drummond and Kennard and clear some roster clutter.  Portis, Ellington, [Trier or a Dallas FRP].  Drummond is an NBA talent.  He gives MR and Wooten time to mature.  Time to sit when they're outmatched.

Yes to Drummond.

Go get Kuzma.

What's Portland need?  Go get Simons or Little.  Let Knox go if we have to.  Let a Dallas pick go if we have to.

Yes. Go get some talent ever so slightly more mature than our existing mix.

Ratchet up the talent.  We can't win standing still.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 14, 2020, 11:49:46 PM
It’s a kind of sell high moment for Portis. What can we get?
Title: Sell high
Post by: carlos123 on January 15, 2020, 01:32:39 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 14, 2020, 11:49:46 PM
It’s a kind of sell high moment for Portis. What can we get?

A bag o beans? 😳
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 15, 2020, 02:34:36 AM
If not CP3, find another starting PG.
Knix are not going to perform well or develop our yute properly until we have solid consistent PG play.  And we can use his leadership (especially if Morris leaves).  2 years. 

Sure CP3's salary is fairly ridiculous and he's an injury risk and old.  But that's why he's available.  And if he misses 20 games a year, that's just an op for Franc/Smith/Elf/whoever to step up.  We're not planning to win too much, just stabilize and try to get to .500 next year -- which would likely mean playoff experience for Knox, Barrett, Franc, Mitch.  And respectability.  CP3 = a chance at decent competitiveness and respectability, focus and more focused development.

But it would be a mistake to trade Randle without pretty good assurance that Morris will re-sign.  One thing about trading Morris is you know you still have Randle under contract.  Morris plays better D, is more versatile (a combo F really), stretches the floor, and appears more of a leader than Randle.  Unfortunately older and it might be contract-infused this year.  Randle a workhorse but has been tasked with too much this year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 15, 2020, 02:39:42 AM
Otherwise, our bench shot a woeful 3-20 on 3's.
Why is Bullock starting?
I guess for some D and outside shooting.
Which underscores how desperate we are for both.
I guess it's just temporary until MaMo returns, so i should probably shut up.  But Bullock is an effort guy, but erratic and mistake-prone. 

Randle & Morris the only legit starters on our roster.
Kadeem has been refreshing. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 15, 2020, 03:13:09 AM
Bullock is still getting his legs and rythym, but it looked better when Reg was backing up RJ and if Knox can keep his mojo together backing up Morris, we’ll be pretty set at the wings.

I didn’t see Payton’s ejection.

Lets hope for a better showing against Phoenix on Thursday.

Nyets got thumped by the Jazz.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 15, 2020, 10:51:35 AM
Totally get the CP3 want.

The idea is sound, help us move forward much like Rubio helped the Suns make a needed next step out of mess.

That worked, this probably would too, to some degree. Important to begin playing real basketball, particularly if we plan to keep Julius. Begin ironing out the "unfortunate" aspects of his game and shape it in the context of something better.
The $$ are ridiculous for the age & probable career prognosis, of course, but just two years going forward. Who cares about saving Dolan bucks? And it's not like any top dogs want to come here anyway.

But.....I would still prefer to avoid any deep action until season's end when presumably we have a new brain trust with brain. Give 'em a cleanish kind of slate. Yes, there's an opportunity cost. Can live with it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 15, 2020, 01:07:42 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 14, 2020, 11:49:46 PM
It’s a kind of sell high moment for Portis. What can we get?

Stealing Randle's points as Julius sits in 4th quarters where we trail heavily.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 15, 2020, 01:09:59 PM
If not CP3, find another starting PG.


Quite a few in the draft

Problem is looking for one in trade or free agency
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 15, 2020, 01:20:15 PM
Randle & Morris the only legit starters on our roster.


Don't let Chip hear you say that
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 15, 2020, 02:12:02 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 15, 2020, 01:20:15 PM
Randle & Morris the only legit starters on our roster.


Don't let Chip hear you say that

I'll get over it. 

I would, however. add RJ.

PS: And I really like Kadeem. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 15, 2020, 03:09:53 PM
Kadeem case very interesting

This is not a young guy

Graduated college at 24.  Turns 27 today

I am not saying he cant stick - or even improve. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 15, 2020, 03:40:32 PM
Ante-Greek really had a few sequences that were impressive.

Knix gave up some wide open 3's.
At least 2 each for Bled and Greek.
One time early 2Q Bled dribbles down court, three Knix are back but no one notices the guy with the ball.  that was RJB's fault as he mindlessly sagged into the paint.  Randle at least pointed for him to pick up Bled.

Randle had a terrific 1Q, a terrible 2Q (2 Pts and 2 travels), then more good #Q.  Can't recall one player getting called for 3 travels in a game before.  All beyond the 3-point line.

Portis, RJB even Knox started scoring, but doesn't mater much when you're down 30.

That 3Q felt like a full half.
Wish we had a guy like Middleton.  Savvy, patient, nice all-around game.

It was nice to hear The Dentist Steve Novak do the commentating.  But it was also a homer performance where frequently they'd just ignore a Knick possession.  Dot shoots an airball 3 early in the shot clock, and the Buck announcers don't even bother to say who shot it.  Payton gets ejected, oddly enough on a Mitch foul, and they never show any of it except Payton heading into the runway.  No replay or explanation of what happened either on that play or earlier leading up to whatever occurred. 

They weren't much interested in the Knix.
Novak felt the Knix had reasonable talent but played with low energy.  Also turns out The Dentist is color blind, which we learned when they started talking about sneakers during the 4Q of the blowout.
Title: Another Level
Post by: chipstern on January 15, 2020, 04:45:12 PM
Heat are a good team.

Bucks are a very, Very GOOD TEAM.

Beautiful execution, crisp puposeful execution, solid defense.

And Giannis is the best player in the NBA, who is motivated to get better, physically and technically, every year.

Now that he is hitting his threes he is basically unguardable.

And hitting his free throws?

GTFOOH.

He executed some plays and put backs, some timed 1 on 3, that were breathtaking.

I give Miller credit for steadying the ship and getting us back into the game.  Then the BUCKS simply ratcheted up to another level.

Giannis?  Fuck me.

And with Bledsoe healthy and in gear.

Bucks are going to the Finals.
 
Title: Never Forget...
Post by: lesterluv on January 15, 2020, 04:57:00 PM
That coach was ours. He wanted to be here. We chose Fizdale, lol.

*** It's really too much to think about sometimes — when you think about it.

*** OK think about that, just visualize the scale, on one side, put Budenholzer, on the other, a guy who shouldn't be allowed to coach rec league

****The afterlife for Steve Mills, won't be a pleasant one, burning & churning as Clyde would say.

Title: Re: Never Forget...
Post by: carlos123 on January 15, 2020, 06:00:39 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on January 15, 2020, 04:57:00 PM
****The afterlife for Steve Mills, won't be a pleasant one, burning & churning as Clyde would say.

LOL 😂

Les, u sound like our Dear Leader, deciding what people are, or are going to be, in hell.

Speaking of another dimension, Giannis is SUPERHUMAN. It ain’t fair having to play against him. He should be in a different kind of League, reserved for supermen.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 15, 2020, 06:50:18 PM
We’ve taken our Bucks lumps for the season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 15, 2020, 07:44:21 PM
Bucks are going to the Finals.


Stayin with Philly and Lakers
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 15, 2020, 09:17:02 PM
Beal back

Hachi and Wagner not too far behind

Wiz make a run at the Nets
Title: Celtics
Post by: carlos123 on January 15, 2020, 10:00:14 PM
C's lost today for 2 reasons:

1. Tatum did not play. It goes to show you people that Chico don't know what he's talking about.

2. Enes only played 16 minutes. Take that Kamster!

Bank, what do you have to say to that?
Title: Re: Never Forget...
Post by: chipstern on January 15, 2020, 10:02:04 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on January 15, 2020, 04:57:00 PM
That coach was ours. He wanted to be here. We chose Fizdale, lol.

*** It's really too much to think about sometimes — when you think about it.

*** OK think about that, just visualize the scale, on one side, put Budenholzer, on the other, a guy who shouldn't be allowed to coach rec league

****The afterlife for Steve Mills, won't be a pleasant one, burning & churning as Clyde would say.

I knew THAT was coming.

To which I would reply.

So

FUCKING

What

Look at the talent on the Bucks.

Now look at our roster.

Think Budenholzer would be taking us to the playoffs? 

Give me a fucking break, Dawg. 

PS: What did Steve Kerr say, when Fizz got canned?  "That would've been me three years ago." 

PPS: Red Holzman has great success when he had the horses, most specifically, that Dave DeB fellow...and once he left, so did Knicks titles, did they not? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 15, 2020, 10:56:20 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 15, 2020, 10:02:04 PM

Think Budenholzer would be taking us to the playoffs? 



Without question.

*** roster would be one helluva lot different. Budenholzer never would have gone for a tank for starters...so we probably finish looking good with 30+ wins last year, so we probably sign a stud, and odds are pretty reasonable Morant is in the mix too...we know how the lotto worked out...and oh yeah, that tall guy a lot less likely to demand out if a complete fucking moron wasnt coaching....how's that for probable alternate reality...extremely likely...and all it would have taken was common sense, hire the best fucking coach available, a no brainer for anyone who has a brain, honestly, this shit is not that hard.
Title: Re: Celtics
Post by: bankshot1 on January 15, 2020, 11:15:19 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 15, 2020, 10:00:14 PM
C's lost today for 2 reasons:

1. Tatum did not play. It goes to show you people that Chico don't know what he's talking about.

2. Enes only played 16 minutes. Take that Kamster!

Bank, what do you have to say to that?

Carlos-didn't see the game, or read up on it, but its a long season and there are games you think you should win and...

But Tatum not playing didnt help on O or D (he's played legit 2-ways this year) and the Pistons put up 116, thats a lot of fucking points.

They play the Bucks tomorrow if they dont bring their A games theyll get killed.

I hope to watch that one.

 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 16, 2020, 12:52:45 AM
Triple double for Fultz - head up over LeBron
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 16, 2020, 01:04:38 AM
Knix actually bumped MIA to a losing Road record: 10-11.  They've been blowing leads or having one bad quarter most road games.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 16, 2020, 01:11:08 AM
DET had 5 guys with excellent shooting efficiency.  60% FG for the team.  Which was better than their 53% FT shooting.
A guy I never heard of Sekou Doumbouya started and score 24 in 28 mins on 10-13FG.  A rook -- #15 pick last year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 16, 2020, 06:29:39 AM
http://www.theringer.com/nba/2020/1/15/21068072/rumormonger-nba-2020-trade-deadline (http://www.theringer.com/nba/2020/1/15/21068072/rumormonger-nba-2020-trade-deadline)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 16, 2020, 08:09:33 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 16, 2020, 01:11:08 AM
DET had 5 guys with excellent shooting efficiency.  60% FG for the team.  Which was better than their 53% FT shooting.
A guy I never heard of Sekou Doumbouya started and score 24 in 28 mins on 10-13FG.  A rook -- #15 pick last year.

The next Siakam - I am hearing.  Out of Detroit anyway.
Title: Tales From The Twilight Zone
Post by: chipstern on January 16, 2020, 01:15:20 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on January 15, 2020, 10:56:20 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 15, 2020, 10:02:04 PM

Think Budenholzer would be taking us to the playoffs? 



Without question.

*** roster would be one helluva lot different. Budenholzer never would have gone for a tank for starters...so we probably finish looking good with 30+ wins last year, so we probably sign a stud, and odds are pretty reasonable Morant is in the mix too...we know how the lotto worked out...and oh yeah, that tall guy a lot less likely to demand out if a complete fucking moron wasnt coaching....how's that for probable alternate reality...extremely likely...and all it would have taken was common sense, hire the best fucking coach available, a no brainer for anyone who has a brain, honestly, this shit is not that hard.

(https://cdn-prod.medicalnewstoday.com/content/images/headlines/258/258118/measuring-a-pulse-with-two-fingers-on-the-wrist.jpg)

With THAT Roster

Uh Huh

(https://positiveheartbeat.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/delusions-nov-17.jpg)

PS: If only we had hired Bud.  We'd have Jah Morant as our PG.  Apparently the mushrooms just kicked in. 
Title: Meanwhile...
Post by: chipstern on January 16, 2020, 01:34:29 PM
T-Wolves trade Teague to Atlanta for Allen Crabbe's expiring contract. 

Get well soon, Dennis. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 16, 2020, 03:17:43 PM
Morris, Dennis, and Dotson for Aaron Gordon, Mo Bamba, and Wesley Iwundu

Taj Robinson Bamba
Randle Portis
Gordon Knox Iggy Iwundu
Barrett Bullock Ellington
Payton Frank Trier

We get younger and longer they get shooting and toughness for a playoff run.

We’d start next year with obligations to

Robinson Bamba
Randle Gordon
Knox Iggy Iwundu
Barrett Bullock
Frank

and the second year of Wooten’s two-way deal

We’d probably bring Payton back to be some part of the PG depth, not great but reasonably priced. 11 guys, plus the draft picks with some money left to spend. That’s about 90 million on the books after signing the lottery pick.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 16, 2020, 03:33:04 PM
Morris, Dennis, and Dotson for Aaron Gordon, Mo Bamba, and Wesley Iwundu


no
Title: Re: Tales From The Twilight Zone
Post by: lesterluv on January 16, 2020, 03:38:44 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 16, 2020, 01:15:20 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on January 15, 2020, 10:56:20 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 15, 2020, 10:02:04 PM

Think Budenholzer would be taking us to the playoffs? 



Without question.

*** roster would be one helluva lot different. Budenholzer never would have gone for a tank for starters...so we probably finish looking good with 30+ wins last year, so we probably sign a stud, and odds are pretty reasonable Morant is in the mix too...we know how the lotto worked out...and oh yeah, that tall guy a lot less likely to demand out if a complete fucking moron wasnt coaching....how's that for probable alternate reality...extremely likely...and all it would have taken was common sense, hire the best fucking coach available, a no brainer for anyone who has a brain, honestly, this shit is not that hard.

(https://cdn-prod.medicalnewstoday.com/content/images/headlines/258/258118/measuring-a-pulse-with-two-fingers-on-the-wrist.jpg)

With THAT Roster

Uh Huh

(https://positiveheartbeat.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/delusions-nov-17.jpg)

PS: If only we had hired Bud.  We'd have Jah Morant as our PG.  Apparently the mushrooms just kicked in.

What part don't you understand?

Why do you think we would have the same roster?

We would not have the same roster. We would not have the same draft pick. It really isn't very complicated. Odds are we finish with 30-35 wins w/Budenholzer coaching to win. Odds are Porzingis doesn't request trade. Odds are much better we sign a stud. But even if not, we're almost certainly pushing playoffs this year.

Mushrooms Me? Wah...? What drugs are you on?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 16, 2020, 03:47:51 PM
Stop already.

You wanna pat yourself on the back re:  Budenlicker, go right ahead

Now...

since you are so good at it -

Who should coach Knicks beginning '20-'21?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 16, 2020, 05:11:29 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 14, 2020, 07:14:38 PM
  Must contain Donte.

Meh... he's marginal to this point in his career.
Good FT shooter.
Gets a lot of open looks playing for the Bucks. 
Doesn't make enough of them.
Title: Re: Never Forget...
Post by: Kam on January 16, 2020, 06:24:23 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on January 15, 2020, 04:57:00 PM
That coach was ours. He wanted to be here. We chose Fizdale, lol.

*** It's really too much to think about sometimes — when you think about it.

*** OK think about that, just visualize the scale, on one side, put Budenholzer, on the other, a guy who shouldn't be allowed to coach rec league

****The afterlife for Steve Mills, won't be a pleasant one, burning & churning as Clyde would say.

Ironically the owners of the Bucks are New Yorkers (presumptive Knicks fans growing up). 
Title: Re: If we trade for 8 and 10
Post by: Kam on January 16, 2020, 07:12:21 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 16, 2020, 08:09:33 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 16, 2020, 01:11:08 AM
DET had 5 guys with excellent shooting efficiency.  60% FG for the team.  Which was better than their 53% FT shooting.
A guy I never heard of Sekou Doumbouya started and score 24 in 28 mins on 10-13FG.  A rook -- #15 pick last year.

The next Siakam - I am hearing.  Out of Detroit anyway.


Hmmm.... if only someone in the forum had mentioned him, maybe Bo would've heard of him

Quote from: Kam on June 19, 2019, 12:54:20 PM
I want Sekou and Goga
Title: Re: Tales From The Twilight Zone
Post by: Kam on January 16, 2020, 07:15:44 PM

Quote from: lesterluv on January 15, 2020, 10:56:20 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 15, 2020, 10:02:04 PM

Think Budenholzer would be taking us to the playoffs? 



Without question.



That's a failed drug test for Lester.  30-day ban.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 16, 2020, 07:33:06 PM
Good FT shooter.


Your analysis is impeccable
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 16, 2020, 07:39:02 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 16, 2020, 07:33:06 PM
Good FT shooter.


Your analysis is impeccable

I look beyond the surface.
Title: City unis
Post by: Kam on January 16, 2020, 08:08:44 PM
I like the uniforms the Knicks are wearing.
Title: Rubio
Post by: Kam on January 16, 2020, 08:31:51 PM
RR is killing us.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 16, 2020, 09:17:38 PM
...and Donte is killing Celts
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 16, 2020, 09:19:54 PM
Ayton is a beast

Cant understand the analysts who wonder if he fits with the Suns long term
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 16, 2020, 09:22:24 PM
Three amigos (last three first rounders) 5-20.

Oy.
Title: I need some good news
Post by: carlos123 on January 16, 2020, 10:14:34 PM
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/YhQDyhknRor4xR5dqiev76qWYX2lTAwrfabGVsb8vM2IUscR3iVSq2vW7S-DkHNHbksTuOKT-Jz5I213yBf-KwvJdDnWb9Gd_9yplBYrTtvf66kUCwjzZoYVC6jyVZwnR-vLMTonPom_xzCBbBGf3ufH7M0wvCgE5VfxbNseCHFalpmlnIXFar8cCpmc2BTTiwJVKM61N3l2eROcLh0pb4sQSu_BS-n0_z_InI2SE_ecdZWCXSH51N2pTaepBIGBI5US3PwdpuERdGfBwKs7Mtm4U8oqEG3_TvZgGTAm1w7VrDdtzMNOPuD5iNm5CLwgR_HBop0jvYQ5ADp5VIPwajdVL5rEjP2Tm3JCuu5SkaSkJ7XbD4D0rRJ3RnYdLXDB4PzUxw4qxOlg7vE90-J8Bm7ndDKjoV598RAfOB1lCTBkIkO-zX3oBtywL9fysij8Vz-bRMfmsU6uycho88hyfKJMlw_GUJudiji_vQ52WuiRkwOwtQOQ54pDoRImZlKLxu1uk1inAGlpsarVqY1dyUQqwVKVjn_lXP1Zo3kUSAQ51YRgayuHwUWB2f_eaflX48b-Q6LWxOht7wr9L7vE0gdk8WfsihrrFeNe27wt4Hl3-iUSP8YMya1_YeZAlHbzu4soe01szA0YJnuDl0dCaC9O4hyHmXKc3ykjdZq_gs7Nwyq-_LC9NsVS62OUAP0cIqIZ_dftJCn8nheIHvG6QOZx2Y57W3EBuNSrvkxJa-kGitk=w398-h299-no)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 16, 2020, 10:59:41 PM
Good news?

Another big win for Lonzo.
Title: Re: I need some good news
Post by: carlos123 on January 16, 2020, 11:34:56 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 16, 2020, 10:14:34 PM
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/YhQDyhknRor4xR5dqiev76qWYX2lTAwrfabGVsb8vM2IUscR3iVSq2vW7S-DkHNHbksTuOKT-Jz5I213yBf-KwvJdDnWb9Gd_9yplBYrTtvf66kUCwjzZoYVC6jyVZwnR-vLMTonPom_xzCBbBGf3ufH7M0wvCgE5VfxbNseCHFalpmlnIXFar8cCpmc2BTTiwJVKM61N3l2eROcLh0pb4sQSu_BS-n0_z_InI2SE_ecdZWCXSH51N2pTaepBIGBI5US3PwdpuERdGfBwKs7Mtm4U8oqEG3_TvZgGTAm1w7VrDdtzMNOPuD5iNm5CLwgR_HBop0jvYQ5ADp5VIPwajdVL5rEjP2Tm3JCuu5SkaSkJ7XbD4D0rRJ3RnYdLXDB4PzUxw4qxOlg7vE90-J8Bm7ndDKjoV598RAfOB1lCTBkIkO-zX3oBtywL9fysij8Vz-bRMfmsU6uycho88hyfKJMlw_GUJudiji_vQ52WuiRkwOwtQOQ54pDoRImZlKLxu1uk1inAGlpsarVqY1dyUQqwVKVjn_lXP1Zo3kUSAQ51YRgayuHwUWB2f_eaflX48b-Q6LWxOht7wr9L7vE0gdk8WfsihrrFeNe27wt4Hl3-iUSP8YMya1_YeZAlHbzu4soe01szA0YJnuDl0dCaC9O4hyHmXKc3ykjdZq_gs7Nwyq-_LC9NsVS62OUAP0cIqIZ_dftJCn8nheIHvG6QOZx2Y57W3EBuNSrvkxJa-kGitk=w398-h299-no)

I need some REAL good news.

I don’t give a fuk about Lonzo or any other ball for that matter.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 17, 2020, 01:19:14 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 16, 2020, 09:19:54 PM
Ayton is a beast
Cant understand the analysts who wonder if he fits with the Suns long term

The PHX Q is who fits at PF next to Ayton.
They figured Saric is a stretch 4 who can board.
But his shooting has been down.  And his D iffy.

The problem has been Ayton's suspension, so they haven't been able to see how the pieces fit.   And Ayton hasn't been able to develop any chemistry with Rubio yet.

Rubio - Book - Uber - Ayton is a terrific young core.
They smoked Los Knix.
Title: Re: I need some good news
Post by: Merciless on January 17, 2020, 08:49:37 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 16, 2020, 11:34:56 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 16, 2020, 10:14:34 PM
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/YhQDyhknRor4xR5dqiev76qWYX2lTAwrfabGVsb8vM2IUscR3iVSq2vW7S-DkHNHbksTuOKT-Jz5I213yBf-KwvJdDnWb9Gd_9yplBYrTtvf66kUCwjzZoYVC6jyVZwnR-vLMTonPom_xzCBbBGf3ufH7M0wvCgE5VfxbNseCHFalpmlnIXFar8cCpmc2BTTiwJVKM61N3l2eROcLh0pb4sQSu_BS-n0_z_InI2SE_ecdZWCXSH51N2pTaepBIGBI5US3PwdpuERdGfBwKs7Mtm4U8oqEG3_TvZgGTAm1w7VrDdtzMNOPuD5iNm5CLwgR_HBop0jvYQ5ADp5VIPwajdVL5rEjP2Tm3JCuu5SkaSkJ7XbD4D0rRJ3RnYdLXDB4PzUxw4qxOlg7vE90-J8Bm7ndDKjoV598RAfOB1lCTBkIkO-zX3oBtywL9fysij8Vz-bRMfmsU6uycho88hyfKJMlw_GUJudiji_vQ52WuiRkwOwtQOQ54pDoRImZlKLxu1uk1inAGlpsarVqY1dyUQqwVKVjn_lXP1Zo3kUSAQ51YRgayuHwUWB2f_eaflX48b-Q6LWxOht7wr9L7vE0gdk8WfsihrrFeNe27wt4Hl3-iUSP8YMya1_YeZAlHbzu4soe01szA0YJnuDl0dCaC9O4hyHmXKc3ykjdZq_gs7Nwyq-_LC9NsVS62OUAP0cIqIZ_dftJCn8nheIHvG6QOZx2Y57W3EBuNSrvkxJa-kGitk=w398-h299-no)

I need some REAL good news.

I don’t give a fuk about Lonzo or any other ball for that matter.

You want good news? Change teams.

The 2 idiots running and ruining this franchise need to be held accountable and shit canned out the door.

Once again they've just thrown a bunch of players together and hoped for the best.

This team just sucks as I've been saying all year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 17, 2020, 08:53:09 AM
I don’t give a fuk about Lonzo or any other ball for that matter.


You may, soon.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 17, 2020, 09:02:38 AM
Once again they've just thrown a bunch of players together and hoped for the best.

This team just sucks as I've been saying all year

For today your point rings true

But how about getting on the coach a bit?  Why did Allen not play - replaced by Frank Clank?  Kadeem was on a good run.  Why are Knox and Barrett given minutes regardless of their play?

5-23

All three have negative win shares for their career.

That's just sick.

And yeah - I know the coach didnt draft them.  But its his job to beat Phoenix at home, given his roster.

Good news is I can just FEEL us getting the first pick.  Maybe we will trade down, properly this time.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 17, 2020, 09:08:53 AM
Rubio - Book - Uber - Ayton is a terrific young core.


Cam Johnson, Nova Bridges, Jerome (thanks, Celtics), maybe Kaminsky...

Rubio has just 2 more years, then a decision at age 32...if he was a Knick you'd be trading him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 17, 2020, 11:31:32 AM
I was primarily thinking a terrific young starting core.
But either way works.  And yes, they do have some solid looking bench yute in Cam and Bridges.

I've always liked Rubio.  Think it was a minor disaster when Phil dickered around when a Rose-Rubio swap was reportedly on offer.  I'd ride Rubio into the sunset.  Three years and then you could keep him at a bargain contract deep into his 30's (given health).

He's 14 / 5 / 9 this season.  Solid player.  Terrific teammate.  Of course you want some 3-point shooters around him, but he's at 34% on 3's this year, which is acceptable.

Looks like about Rubio's best game of the year.  Nearly a 25-point triple double, with 4 steals.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 17, 2020, 11:41:07 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 17, 2020, 09:02:38 AM
Why are Knox and Barrett given minutes regardless of their play?

Because we are 11-31 and (desperately) need at least one of those two to become a solid starter in this League. 

If you mean just the PHX game, RJB only got 14 mins; Knox just 17.

But I didn't see the game, might try to catch a replay or highlights now.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 17, 2020, 12:09:44 PM
1-7 last 8 games.
Next 4:
PHI - @Cle - LAL - TOR
So at least some good teams coming to MSG.
Better be up for CLE.

Then the next 9 leading to the A-S Break features all below .500 East teams, except one game v. IND (and Memf a losing West team).  So that stretch will give a good indication of what we are.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on January 17, 2020, 12:44:11 PM
I'm confident we already have that indication.
Title: Re: I need some good news
Post by: carlos123 on January 17, 2020, 01:19:16 PM
Quote from: Merciless on January 17, 2020, 08:49:37 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 16, 2020, 11:34:56 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 16, 2020, 10:14:34 PM
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/YhQDyhknRor4xR5dqiev76qWYX2lTAwrfabGVsb8vM2IUscR3iVSq2vW7S-DkHNHbksTuOKT-Jz5I213yBf-KwvJdDnWb9Gd_9yplBYrTtvf66kUCwjzZoYVC6jyVZwnR-vLMTonPom_xzCBbBGf3ufH7M0wvCgE5VfxbNseCHFalpmlnIXFar8cCpmc2BTTiwJVKM61N3l2eROcLh0pb4sQSu_BS-n0_z_InI2SE_ecdZWCXSH51N2pTaepBIGBI5US3PwdpuERdGfBwKs7Mtm4U8oqEG3_TvZgGTAm1w7VrDdtzMNOPuD5iNm5CLwgR_HBop0jvYQ5ADp5VIPwajdVL5rEjP2Tm3JCuu5SkaSkJ7XbD4D0rRJ3RnYdLXDB4PzUxw4qxOlg7vE90-J8Bm7ndDKjoV598RAfOB1lCTBkIkO-zX3oBtywL9fysij8Vz-bRMfmsU6uycho88hyfKJMlw_GUJudiji_vQ52WuiRkwOwtQOQ54pDoRImZlKLxu1uk1inAGlpsarVqY1dyUQqwVKVjn_lXP1Zo3kUSAQ51YRgayuHwUWB2f_eaflX48b-Q6LWxOht7wr9L7vE0gdk8WfsihrrFeNe27wt4Hl3-iUSP8YMya1_YeZAlHbzu4soe01szA0YJnuDl0dCaC9O4hyHmXKc3ykjdZq_gs7Nwyq-_LC9NsVS62OUAP0cIqIZ_dftJCn8nheIHvG6QOZx2Y57W3EBuNSrvkxJa-kGitk=w398-h299-no)

I need some REAL good news.

I don’t give a fuk about Lonzo or any other ball for that matter.

You want good news? Change teams.

The 2 idiots running and ruining this franchise need to be held accountable and shit canned out the door.

Once again they've just thrown a bunch of players together and hoped for the best.

This team just sucks as I've been saying all year.

Can’t change teams. You know how it goes.

Hoping perrymills are shown the door at the end of the season. We know Dolan likes Ujiri.

One can always hope ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 17, 2020, 01:52:46 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 17, 2020, 12:09:44 PM
Then the next 9 leading to the A-S Break features all below .500 East teams, except one game v. IND (and Memf a losing West team).  So that stretch will give a good indication of what we are.

Quote from: Yankguy1 on January 17, 2020, 12:44:11 PM
I'm confident we already have that indication.

Funny.

But. Yeah.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 17, 2020, 02:05:39 PM
Well, we looked better after Elf returned and with a new head coach.  Our best player, MaMo just missed 5 games.

After the next 4, we have a string of games against non-playoff teams, mostly East team we compete with.  So a chance to see how we are with Morris, Elf and Coach Malone.

We need shooters.  Why not give Trier some run?

Wonder if we have anything to trade for Jrue?
Seems there's talk of him being available.
Title: Becoming A Bengal Punishment Enough For Joe Burrow Taking Cash From Beckham
Post by: chipstern on January 17, 2020, 03:34:58 PM
https://sports.theonion.com/ncaa-determines-becoming-a-bengal-punishment-enough-for-1841064671?utm_source=TheOnion_Daily_RSS&utm_medium=email (https://sports.theonion.com/ncaa-determines-becoming-a-bengal-punishment-enough-for-1841064671?utm_source=TheOnion_Daily_RSS&utm_medium=email)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 17, 2020, 04:30:14 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 17, 2020, 09:02:38 AM
Once again they've just thrown a bunch of players together and hoped for the best.

This team just sucks as I've been saying all year

For today your point rings true

But how about getting on the coach a bit?  Why did Allen not play - replaced by Frank Clank?  Kadeem was on a good run.  Why are Knox and Barrett given minutes regardless of their play?


Exactly.  Or Trier instead of Dotson.  Hard not to point the finger at the coaching when you get beat that bad by that team.  At the same time, we only have two consistent scorers.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 17, 2020, 05:03:27 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 17, 2020, 04:30:14 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 17, 2020, 09:02:38 AM
Once again they've just thrown a bunch of players together and hoped for the best.

This team just sucks as I've been saying all year

For today your point rings true

But how about getting on the coach a bit?  Why did Allen not play - replaced by Frank Clank?  Kadeem was on a good run.  Why are Knox and Barrett given minutes regardless of their play?


Exactly.  Or Trier instead of Dotson.  Hard not to point the finger at the coaching when you get beat that bad by that team.  At the same time, we only have two consistent scorers.

I've always like Dotson's motor, his defense and his long-range shooting.  But he has CLEARLY not recovered from shoulder surgery.  During Trier's garbage time moments, he has clearly been putting extra effort into defense and ball movement. 

Considering how desperate we are for offense, other than simply hoisting treys, I am baffled as to why Trier is not getting daylight?  WTF?  Does he have bodies in the basement? 

And hasn't Kadeem earned rotation minutes? 
Title: MaMo
Post by: Kam on January 17, 2020, 05:08:23 PM
What to do with Marcus Morris. 

He came back from being hurt in his best game as a pro and showed little rust.
The Knicks think they can get a protected 1st or two 2nds for him.

It makes sense to try to keep him because he is a leader and a good player
BUT
even if the Knicks trade him they can potentially re-sign him this summer. 

So when you view the team in the post-Porzingis epoch and you see DSJ having a hard time, don't you have to take one of the other returns you got from the trade (cap space used to sign Morris and others) and sign players with that space who can be traded into more assets?
Title: RJ's Sprained Ankle
Post by: chipstern on January 17, 2020, 05:08:48 PM
Out at least a week. 

Would seem like a propitious time to give Alonzo a long look, particularly if there is any interest in either

A) Truly evaluating his talent

B) Showcasing him for a trade scenario

Alas, I suspect that Bullock will get RJ's minutes. 

I like Reggie, but come on man, what's up with burying Alonzo on the pine? 
Title: Re: MaMo
Post by: chipstern on January 17, 2020, 05:15:35 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 17, 2020, 05:08:23 PM
What to do with Marcus Morris. 

He came back from being hurt in his best game as a pro and showed little rust.
The Knicks think they can get a protected 1st or two 2nds for him.

It makes sense to try to keep him because he is a leader and a good player
BUT
even if the Knicks trade him they can potentially re-sign him this summer. 

So when you view the team in the post-Porzingis epoch and you see DSJ having a hard time, don't you have to take one of the other returns you got from the trade (cap space used to sign Morris and others) and sign players with that space who can be traded into more assets?

Mmmmm, interesting. 

Sort of how the Yankees traded what's his name (their #1 relief pitcher, Aroldis Chapman) to the Cubs, helping them to cement their first World Series win since, what, 1908, and shoplifted top prospect Glyber Torres as ransom. 

Then proceeded to re-up said same Chapman the following season. 

Alas, baseball and basketball work differently.  A prospect is a KNOWN QUALITY, and Glyber turned out to be a major STEAL, whereas a second round pick in the NBA Draft is either feast or famine. 

Might MM re-up in such a scenario?

Consider how emotional he was when the Phoenix Suns traded his brother in mid-season. 

I doubt he would re-re-consider the Knicks. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 17, 2020, 05:19:11 PM
even if the Knicks trade him they can potentially re-sign him this summer.


I wouldnt expect that

But...If we do keep Marcus management again runs the risk of having been lied to - as a nice 3 year deal (fair dollars) may get the "NYET - I will see who else chimes in" response.

Tough call.  I really like Tre Jones and a few others at the back end of round 1 this year.  And someone - some all conference stud - could drop like Porter off an injury or other concerns. 
Title: Dawg Pounding
Post by: chipstern on January 17, 2020, 05:25:24 PM
File this under beating a dead horse. 

While I believe your contempt for Fizdale has been justified. 

Your hallucinations based on signing Coach Bud in lieu of Coach Crud are worthy of Clipper Jane no less. 

You "Presume" that Porzingis would still be here, which on the face of it, is unsupported by any evidence...

Not to mention that...

Tim MacMahon: The Mavericks downgraded Kristaps Porzingis from questionable to out. This will be the 10th straight game Porzingis misses due to right knee soreness. – via Twitter espn_macmahon

And you project Bud getting up 30-35 wins with the same fucking personnel, ostensibly because we could wager the ranch that Bud would not have gone along with complicity in tanking. 

Then, so covered with honor, that given the credibility of Bud, the presence of KP, and a near playoff finish from our hometown team, we would not only have signed a true top-tier free agent, but would've (my fave part) likewise drafted Jah Morant. 

Presumably this wet dream is based on a burgeoning contempt for RJ, seeing as how he was this management team's choice.  As per Jah, well, if our Knicks finished in the 30-35-39 range as you project, that would've put us in the same class as the Hawks, the  Wizards, the Heat or the Hornets, which begs the question, in what Alternate Universe would Jah Morant have dropped from #2 to #8 or #9 or #10?  Hmmmm ?  Jaxon Hayes, Rui Hachimura, Cam Reddish. 

Given your glistening persona as a master of sarcasm and the absurd, perhaps we should credit the unabashed effulgence of your rectal emission as another foray into the realm of humor. 

Or perhaps not. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 17, 2020, 05:33:37 PM
The correct argument - Chip - is "why would you want Porzingis here at the salary we'd have needed to give him and the ? surrounding all aspects of his overall package?"

And the only proper comeback would be that we could/should have shopped him around or at a different time.
Title: Saviors?
Post by: chipstern on January 17, 2020, 05:49:41 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 17, 2020, 05:33:37 PM
The correct argument - Chip - is "why would you want Porzingis here at the salary we'd have needed to give him and the ? surrounding all aspects of his overall package?"

And the only proper comeback would be that we could/should have shopped him around or at a different time.

I have my doubts about the talking points of both sides. 

Clearly, things came to a head. 

Why don't we leave WHAT IF to a more gifted practitioner such as LesterDawg. 

What we do know is our "assets" from the KP trade were cap space, Dennis Smith and two mid-to-late first rounders. 

Remains to be seen if KP's current knee problems are a harbinger of future decrepitude or simply a blip on the radar screen.  He had been playing quite well. 

And again, given your sense that patience would've produced better returns? 

Well, given the alacrity with which this deal went down, one might presume that Perry and Mills had been exploring back channels for quite some time.  And that given Cuban's anointment of Doncic, and the franchise's spiritual connection to Dirk, that KP represented a pretty valid roll of the dice as Dirk 2.1

Will KP blow up in Cuban's face? 

Stay tuned. 

Meanwhile...

Post-Operative Timmy has come around nicely. 

Courtney Lee is an expiring contract. 

While on our side of the ledger? 

Wes Matthews is a starter for Milwaukee. 

Deandre is a key rotational player for the Nyets.

Dennis has been a disaster. 

Julius and Marcus have been solid statistical free agent additions with moneys saved from KP and Courtney and Timmy and (and...wait for it, wait for it...coming right at you...ENES), while we jettisoned all of Fizdale's "projects" in favor of Bullock and Taj and Eldfird and Ellington with remaining cap space on the short term. 

Let's see how many games Porzingis logs come April, and if he is part of a playoff push. 

As for our Knicks, and the ongoing drum circle calling for Randle and/or Morris to be cashiered, well....

The real question is...

Do we want Perry and Mills making such decisions, or do we wait for yet another re-boot come April and the possibility of another James Dolan Savior? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 17, 2020, 07:01:00 PM
Of the current crop of vets, guys with four or more full years of service, who would you most like to see stick around for the next iteration, whatever that turns out to be?

My top three in order of importance are Randle then Morris then Bullock. After that start significant drops in interest.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 17, 2020, 08:52:05 PM
Do we want Perry and Mills making such decisions, or do we wait for yet another re-boot come April and the possibility of another James Dolan Savior?


I think Perry gets to do the draft.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 17, 2020, 08:56:45 PM
Of the current crop of vets, guys with four or more full years of service, who would you most like to see stick around for the next iteration, whatever that turns out to be?


Randle (not even a question) and Morris

I can let go of Payton assuming we add a PG

Gibson, Bullock, Portis as well - Bobby being the tough call because he has quite a ceiling.  Just dont see him getting necessary minutes here.  Maybe not anywhere, true.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 17, 2020, 09:18:13 PM
Nice pickup today in fantasy -

Norman Powell
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 17, 2020, 09:20:27 PM
New guy worth a look -

getting some PG minutes with Teague gone - sharing the court with Napier at times as well -

Undrafted out of USC

https://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/6133/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 17, 2020, 09:41:07 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 17, 2020, 07:01:00 PM
Of the current crop of vets, guys with four or more full years of service, who would you most like to see stick around for the next iteration, whatever that turns out to be?

My top three in order of importance are Randle then Morris then Bullock. After that start significant drops in interest.

Actually....

Yes. 

Contingent on some vision of a PG in the future, as Bo keeps suggesting, quite rightly. 

Right now, I'm of a mind to find a starter there. 

Right now we have 4 back-ups, all capable in their way, but...well, you watch the games.  I think Kadeem should be getting a longer look, which means someone needs to go?  He would flourish methinks as a 15-20 a night man.  The others?  Not so much.  So who is redundant and with which of our guards and wings to we cast our lot. 

Besides RJ & Reggie. 

This needs to be sorted out. 

Smith?

Ntilikina?

Peyton?

Dotson?

Trier? 

Ellington? 

Finally?

My draft fan tasty is not a Spherical Ball but a Large Wise Man.  Whoever pointed to Ayon as proof for why the Knicks should pursue Drummond.  Not until summer in any event, and then, Andre does not have anywhere near the offensive upside and versatility of the big kid from Phoenix.  But I believe Taj has taught Mitch all he can.  Mitchell is tantalizing.  Mitchell is blessed with great natural talent and athleticism.  Mitchell is limited. 

(https://ca-times.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/4e6f4b0/2147483647/strip/true/crop/3000x1914+0+0/resize/840x536!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcalifornia-times-brightspot.s3.amazonaws.com%2F87%2F49%2F30c7a5044f17964abb78db60a700%2Fhttps-delivery.gettyimages.com%2Fdownloads%2F1187448955.jpg)

Speaking of 15-20 minutes a night. 

JAMES WISEMAN, Lord. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 17, 2020, 09:41:28 PM
PG search

Any of you collegiate hoops savants who get time to watch the younguns

Check out:

Arizona (Mannion)*
Iowa State (Haliburton)
Kentucky (Hagans)*
UNC (Anthony)
Kansas (Dotson)
Duke (Jones)*
Oregon (Pritchard)
Marquette (Howard)
SDSU (Flynn)*
Mich St (Winston)*
St Johns (Heron)
Nebraska (Mack)

* faves thus far
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 17, 2020, 09:43:41 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 17, 2020, 09:41:28 PM
PG search

Any of you collegiate hoops savants who get time to watch the younguns

Check out:

Arizona (Mannion)*
Iowa State (Haliburton)
Kentucky (Hagans)*
UNC (Anthony)
Kansas (Dotson)
Duke (Jones)*
Oregon (Pritchard)
Marquette (Howard)
SDSU (Flynn)*
Mich St (Winston)*
St Johns (Heron)
Nebraska (Mack)

* faves thus far

I believe that mid-to-later first round, there might be some PG talent to be harvested. 
Title: Praying
Post by: chipstern on January 17, 2020, 09:46:39 PM
Praying That Perry Can Convince Some Team That Dennis Smith Is Worth A Late First Rounder, Much As Fultz Was.

No, not comparing them. 

But with rehab and patience and program that was clearly committed to MF, he has recovered, and begun to find his voice. 

Or as part of a package. 

Not hopeful. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 17, 2020, 09:53:44 PM
I can see Smith as salary filler with Morris/Portis/Gibson/Ellington/Bullock (pick 2 or more) - big ticket coming back.

What big $$ guy other than Wiggins has just 1-2 years left on his deal?  YES, I take an elite scorer and pay him alongside Randle short term
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 17, 2020, 10:16:10 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 17, 2020, 09:53:44 PM
I can see Smith as salary filler with Morris/Portis/Gibson/Ellington/Bullock (pick 2 or more) - big ticket coming back.

What big $$ guy other than Wiggins has just 1-2 years left on his deal?  YES, I take an elite scorer and pay him alongside Randle short term

Okay.

But not Wiggins. 

Morris shows signs of being a winner. 

Which is what makes him a potential asset. 

Don't want to divorce one of our best signings for spare parts. 

Wiggins should be killing with Towns.

He has not. 

Ask Jimmy Butler. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 17, 2020, 10:17:57 PM
OKC

Roberson on ending deal and likely out for the year

a)  send them Morris for Roberson, a pup and a pick

or

b)  send Morris with others and take back Galinari, Roberson and pups/picks

The picks would likely be second rounders or late 1s from other teams, not OKC's 2020 #1

The pups

Diallo - just 1 year left then I think RFA
Bazley - 1 guaranteed at 2.4, then 2 options
Patton - not much guaranteed but signed thru 2022

I think they need Noel but if we send Gibson maybe we get a looksee/re-sign possibility with Nerlens

So, firs swipe at it

Morris, Gibson, Bullock,  Dotson and Trier   for Galinari, Roberson, Noel, Diallo, Patton + a #1 and an option to swap 1s in another year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 17, 2020, 10:19:41 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 17, 2020, 09:20:27 PM
New guy worth a look -

getting some PG minutes with Teague gone - sharing the court with Napier at times as well -

Undrafted out of USC

https://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/6133/

Sure. 

A younger Kadeem. 

Like Napier.  Has heart and underrated skillset. 

Nyets should have hung on. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 17, 2020, 10:20:29 PM
Wiggins should be killing with Towns.

He has not.

Ask Jimmy Butler.

I dont know, man - pretty strong year going for Wiggy
Title: Van Vleet
Post by: chipstern on January 17, 2020, 10:25:16 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 17, 2020, 10:20:29 PM
Wiggins should be killing with Towns.

He has not.

Ask Jimmy Butler.

I dont know, man - pretty strong year going for Wiggy

He does not show up for 48 minutes. 

If I was going after a free agent, or a free agent to be, a sure to be expensive free agent, come the summer of 2020, would be PG Van Vleet.  Not Drummond.  Or fucking Wiggins [we have RJ, Bullock, Knox, Iggy...oh, and MORRIS]

Not sure Van Vleet is inclined to leave the Raptors, but I suspect he will be inclined to LISTEN. 

Good facilitator, focused defender (1.9 steals a game); okay, he is going to be 26 next month, only 6'1" and a high volume shooter to boot, but nails treys at a 38% clip and can get very hot from the asteroid belt, while converting FTs at 84.7% clip, relevant as can create his own shot in a pinch, and is giving the Raptors 7 assists and 4 boards a night.  Will be 26.   Four years?  For 25-30 Million?  [Hell, Peyton, Ellington and Gibson add up to 25 million...Portis...40 million].  The bell cow in the Garden?  I'd listen.   God bless Chris Paul, but 30 million for Van Vleet or 45 million for Paul.  Hello. 

The way Van Vleet can motor, and is a threat to bomb...RJ would be so open for the EZ Pass lane, he'd think he was hallucinating. 

We whiffed on Kemba at 32, 34, 36, 37. 

Van Vleet 25, 28, 31, 33? 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 17, 2020, 10:56:32 PM
What if we could wriggle Culver from them, the cost being taking Wiggins' remaining 90+ mil and giving them Mitch Robinson?

Wiggins/Culver comes to 33+ mil - so start figuring who we would send back to 'sota.  No picks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 17, 2020, 11:04:17 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 17, 2020, 10:56:32 PM
What if we could wriggle Culver from them, the cost being taking Wiggins' remaining 90+ mil and giving them Mitch Robinson?

Wiggins/Culver comes to 33+ mil - so start figuring who we would send back to 'sota.  No picks.

No. 

And I like Culver. 

But I don't like Wiggins.  Not a good three point shooter.  Not a very high FG%, and like just up to 74% FT this season.  Will be 25 two days before Van Vleet.  Not at 27, 29, 31, 33.  Hey, what I suggested we might offer Van Vleet. 

They have centers.  We need Mitchell.  Need to augment/supplement him, not dump him for very weak personality in Wiggins.  Yes, he is talented, but not exactly like we're bring Spree to the Garden, or Melo.  He would WILT, and I don't mean the Big Dipper. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 17, 2020, 11:57:35 PM
Arent many in the league capable of getting 20 a night

To do it for six seasons - pretty damn good.

Missing just ten games in 5 years pretty impressive as well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 18, 2020, 12:12:23 AM
Blazers down to Mavs..

just 4-6 in last ten

Simons struggling...

But how about Hassan Whiteside?

Points -  19, 16, 17, 23, 21, 14, 15, 7, 18, 21
Boards -  16, 22, 12, 21, 18, 16, 14, 11, 18, 18
Blocks -  4, 3, 3, 5, 2, 7, 2, 3, 2, 5
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 18, 2020, 12:13:45 AM
Oh, yeah - almost forgot - 29 for THJ
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 18, 2020, 04:51:20 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 18, 2020, 12:13:45 AM
Oh, yeah - almost forgot - 29 for THJ

You forgot the 0 Assists ....

<snicker>

Kyrie Irving Leadership Lessons.
When he named the Nets core he left off all the Whities.
Maybe he just didn't know their names ...

But really a typical Kyrie jerk move.  It also comes after KI missed 26 games in which the Nets did about the same as when Kyrie plays.  Then he returns for 3 or 4 games and complains.

And some of you wanted Kyrie and a broken down expensive KD.
Blech.  They also saddled BKY with DeAndretheGiant's indifference.  I think he likes hanging out with the guys more than actually playing hoops.

Of course IF KI & KD can both get healthy, you're only one stud away from contending.  That's the tease.  But I see it as the Nets KG/Pierce 2.0.  Remember at the time that looked promising and they already had Deron as a top PG.  Of course, the poison was all the 1st rounders they floated BOS.  But two gimpy stars who are selfish and thin-skinned and prima donnas.    It's gonna take Durant some time next year to get himself back.  Expect a 60% KD.  And who knows what will ail Kyrie.  Knix dodged a double-barreled shotgun.

Title: Re: Van Vleet
Post by: bodiddley on January 18, 2020, 05:43:10 AM
Quote
Praying That Perry Can Convince Some Team That Dennis Smith Is Worth A Late First Rounder

Might as well pray that Franc sprouts wings and can dunk at will ...

Nobody is giving up a 1st for the Knix 3rd string PG who can't stay healthy and has played poorly.

Quote from: chipstern on January 17, 2020, 10:25:16 PM
If I was going after a free agent, or a free agent to be, a sure to be expensive free agent, come the summer of 2020, would be PG Van Vleet. ... Not sure Van Vleet is inclined to leave the Raptors, but I suspect he will be inclined to LISTEN.


I think FVV would very much be up for a big contract and starting gig in NYC.  He's a grinder and in that ay really reminds me of Lowry, an undersized PG who mostly wills himself to be good.  But FVV's margin of error is pretty small on much of what he does, and he benefits from plaything against 2nd units and/or being the 4th option when he starts.  If he was getting mucho attention as a Knick starter, I worry his margin would evaporate.

Quote
Good facilitator, focused defender (1.9 steals a game); okay, he is going to be 26 next month, only 6'1" and a high volume shooter to boot, but nails treys at a 38% clip and can get very hot from the asteroid belt, while converting FTs at 84.7% clip, relevant as can create his own shot in a pinch, and is giving the Raptors 7 assists and 4 boards a night.  Will be 26.   Four years?  For 25-30 Million?  [Hell, Peyton, Ellington and Gibson add up to 25 million...Portis...40 million].  The bell cow in the Garden?  I'd listen.   

I've started thinking the same way about salaries.  Hell, we're still paying Noah $6M a year.  $30M for FVV is a lot.  But drop Taj and Ellington ($17.5M) add in a pair of $3M replacements for them, and it's akin to FVV at $19M. 

I agree that FVV is one of the top backup PG's.  But is he a quality starter?  He does shoot 3's well and his defensive effort is good, though his size makes him vulnerable to switches.  I'm pretty reluctant.  His role on TOR is perfect for his talent/ability.  And you need other defenders around FVV to make his tough shrimpy D effective.

I'd rather go for Dinwiddie, who does have lead dog in him.

Quote
God bless Chris Paul, but 30 million for Van Vleet or 45 million for Paul.  Hello.

Hi.  I'll take an order of CP3, thanks.  First off we'd be on the hook for 2 years on a proven starting PG, not 4 on a backup trying to make the leap.  Not sure we have the structure or personnel to assist FVV to do so.  And the extra $15M?  Excise Booby Porter and it's covered.  Or drop Taj and Ellington.  Payton another somewhat unnecessary $8M.

You can overpay a quality starter here and there and skimp a bit on bench salaries.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 18, 2020, 08:58:33 AM
Of course IF KI & KD can both get healthy, you're only one stud away from contending.  That's the tease.  But I see it as the Nets KG/Pierce 2.0.  Remember at the time that looked promising and they already had Deron as a top PG. Of course, the poison was all the 1st rounders they floated BOS.  But two gimpy stars who are selfish and thin-skinned and prima donnas.    It's gonna take Durant some time next year to get himself back.  Expect a 60% KD.  And who knows what will ail Kyrie.  Knix dodged a double-barreled shotgun.


Became Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum +.  But a pick that went to Nets became Kyle Kuzma.  Still one pick left of the Boston haul - that last #1 from the Tatum-Fultz bargain.  One other (which was Colin Sexton in time) had been used to secure Kyrie - a bit of a waste.

(think I got that kind of right - Bank will I am sure correct me one way or another)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 18, 2020, 09:07:52 AM
I like the Wiggins route better than CP3

You get the third year - Wiggins in his prime at 25, 26 and 27 -

then you can FIND (yes, I know - its tough) your future point - who would then still be with you when decisions are made to extend or trade Wig and Jul.

Could even BE FVV.

Van Vleet, Barrett, Wiggins, Randle, Robinson/insert defensive tough guy center
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 18, 2020, 10:37:17 AM
Oh, plus the draft pick - how could I forget - - could be Chip's Wiseman, my guy Carey, LaMelo - or even our future at PG (Mannion or Anthony) - or as pogo stick with huge upside like Jaylen MCdaniels

If we drafted a guy like Edwards then RJ could move to the three - Wiggins could play 4 in a small starting lineup.  Or Edwards couldcome off the pine initially.  Or maybe Barrett just becomes the 1.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 18, 2020, 12:09:14 PM
Wiggins, KAT, Covington and Teague only managed 4 more W's than the Knix have.  I don't see how Uncle Wiggy helps us win.  And he kind of takes more or less the same minutes as RJB.  Wiggy isn't a 3-point shooter.  Isn't he just a more expensive more experienced Barrett?
When they had Butler, the Wolves also underperformed.

Knix really need shooters.
Ball whizzes around the perimeter leading to an open corner 3 for  ... Elf.  Clank.  Teams don't worry about Elf, RJB, Franc, Jr. Smith, shooting 3's.  If there's a threat, they sag into the paint and let these guys have shots.
 
Knox and Dot and Randle don't instill fear either.  And neither would Wiggins.  It really mucks up the spacing, as Knix don't stretch the floor.  Only Morris.  Keep track of one 3-point shooter, clog the middle and let others shoot.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 18, 2020, 02:40:33 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 18, 2020, 12:09:14 PM
Wiggins, KAT, Covington and Teague only managed 4 more W's than the Knix have.  I don't see how Uncle Wiggy helps us win.  And he kind of takes more or less the same minutes as RJB.  Wiggy isn't a 3-point shooter.  Isn't he just a more expensive more experienced Barrett?
When they had Butler, the Wolves also underperformed.

Knix really need shooters.
Ball whizzes around the perimeter leading to an open corner 3 for  ... Elf.  Clank.  Teams don't worry about Elf, RJB, Franc, Jr. Smith, shooting 3's.  If there's a threat, they sag into the paint and let these guys have shots.
 
Knox and Dot and Randle don't instill fear either.  And neither would Wiggins.  It really mucks up the spacing, as Knix don't stretch the floor.  Only Morris.  Keep track of one 3-point shooter, clog the middle and let others shoot.

Agree that Van Vleet might be a stretch, but I have seen him beat up rather convincingly on other than second uniters.  Would rather roll the dice on an over achiever than an under achiever.  Worth noting that it took Lowry a while to find his focus and define his mojo. 

Wiggins does not space the floor.  Nor is there much evidence he makes his team mates better. 

The Draft?

I've seen Edwards defined as a combo guard.  That remains to be seen. 

The 6'8" Ball is intriguing as a PG.  But the presence of his father strikes me as having the potential for truly toxic chemistry. 

Wiseman fills a need for an athletic, all around 5, with the potential to evolve over time with some stretch 4 attributes.  Least ways, some Rik Smits range. 

God forbid we should be so fucking lucky. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on January 18, 2020, 02:41:24 PM
I'm still a fan of some nuanced trades that open a  roster spot or two.

Say, Portis and DSJ for Bazemore and Portland's second-rounder.

Gallinari, Ferguson, and Patton for Randle and Ellington.

That would open a spot for a G-League sharp-shooter.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 18, 2020, 03:12:36 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 17, 2020, 11:57:35 PM
Arent many in the league capable of getting 20 a night


Sadly you remind me that our own Frank Ntilikina is still waiting for the first 20pt game of his career.

cue Lester
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 18, 2020, 03:32:42 PM
Wiggins, KAT, Covington and Teague only managed 4 more W's than the Knix have.  I don't see how Uncle Wiggy helps us win.  And he kind of takes more or less the same minutes as RJB.  Wiggy isn't a 3-point shooter.  Isn't he just a more expensive more experienced Barrett?


Let me know when RJ gets 20 PPG over 500 outings

Idea is to make RJ better by adding another threat.  Keeping Morris is an alternative but its not the least bit assured, nor does he score at that clip either.

We are back to losing with bad offense, same as the last few years when you all broadcasted so loudly how we needed defenders.  CHANGE WITH THE LEAGUE.  Fill the nets.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 18, 2020, 03:34:39 PM
Gallinari, Ferguson, and Patton for Randle and Ellington.


OKC wont do that one.  They have been patient with Ferguson and want to reap the reward.  His defense is quite good.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 18, 2020, 04:37:31 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 18, 2020, 03:12:36 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 17, 2020, 11:57:35 PM
Arent many in the league capable of getting 20 a night


Sadly you remind me that our own Frank Ntilikina is still waiting for the first 20pt game of his career.

cue Lester

Don't even try to start. I am enjoying a silent meditation weekend retreat.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 18, 2020, 05:12:25 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on January 18, 2020, 02:41:24 PM
Say, Portis and DSJ for Bazemore and Portland's second-rounder.

Last thing POR needs is to trade defense for offense. 
They don't need another guy who plays matador D.

Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 18, 2020, 03:32:42 PM
We are back to losing with bad offense, same as the last few years when you all broadcasted so loudly how we needed defenders.  CHANGE WITH THE LEAGUE.  Fill the nets.

So get a 3-point scoring threat.  Not Wiggins.
Feel like I've been calling for a 3&D wing for a decade.
Score & Defend.  Try to accumulate 2-way players and complementary pieces.
 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on January 18, 2020, 05:26:48 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 18, 2020, 05:12:25 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on January 18, 2020, 02:41:24 PM
Say, Portis and DSJ for Bazemore and Portland's second-rounder.

Last thing POR needs is to trade defense for offense. 
They don't need another guy who plays matador D.

Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 18, 2020, 03:32:42 PM
We are back to losing with bad offense, same as the last few years when you all broadcasted so loudly how we needed defenders.  CHANGE WITH THE LEAGUE.  Fill the nets.

So get a 3-point scoring threat.  Not Wiggins.
Feel like I've been calling for a 3&D wing for a decade.
Score & Defend.  Try to accumulate 2-way players and complementary pieces.
 

Does Bazemore even play these days?  I was under the impression he needed a change of scenery.
Title: NBA trade
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 18, 2020, 05:55:02 PM
Bazemore dealt for Ariza.  More to it but POR gets its wing defender.
Title: Re: NBA trade
Post by: FWK00 on January 18, 2020, 06:12:40 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 18, 2020, 05:55:02 PM
Bazemore dealt for Ariza.  More to it but POR gets its wing defender.

Shit.  I thought he'd fit well here.
Title: Re: NBA trade
Post by: chipstern on January 18, 2020, 06:52:27 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on January 18, 2020, 06:12:40 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 18, 2020, 05:55:02 PM
Bazemore dealt for Ariza.  More to it but POR gets its wing defender.

Shit.  I thought he'd fit well here.

Be still my heart.

Don't cry for me, Argentina.

No, we,are bemoaning the missed opportunity of....KENT BAZEMORE.

Wow.

Just.....WOW.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 18, 2020, 08:13:39 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on January 18, 2020, 04:37:31 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 18, 2020, 03:12:36 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 17, 2020, 11:57:35 PM
Arent many in the league capable of getting 20 a night


Sadly you remind me that our own Frank Ntilikina is still waiting for the first 20pt game of his career.

cue Lester

Don't even try to start. I am enjoying a silent meditation weekend retreat.

With the internet!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 18, 2020, 08:15:56 PM
Miller turns to the bench and calls Allonzos number rather than Dotson.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 18, 2020, 08:19:33 PM
And Trier having some nice dishes below that should have been, but weren't, converted.

Meanwhile Frank managed to make three terrible passes in one short stretch. Not hating, but Jesus.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 18, 2020, 08:23:43 PM
Yeah maybe take that headband off Frank.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 18, 2020, 08:25:11 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 18, 2020, 08:19:33 PM
And Trier having some nice dishes below that should have been, but weren't, converted.

Meanwhile Frank managed to make three terrible passes in one short stretch. Not hating, but Jesus.

Likewise.

Getting OLD.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 18, 2020, 08:34:14 PM
Knicks guards are shooting 2 for 13

Payton 0-5
Bullock 1-5
Frank 1-2
Trier 0-1
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 18, 2020, 08:43:13 PM
The Chris Paul contract is way too much. Especially at his age with the risk of injury.

BUT if we had him....can you imagine what the man would say to Randall bringing the ball up the court?

I do not think Paul would abide that shit.

Randall could be so great if he just reigned in the weakest parts of his game. But with the Knicks, captain-less, you get the feeling he has carte blanche to just do whatever the fuck he wants.
Title: Elfrid
Post by: chipstern on January 18, 2020, 08:46:42 PM
Every time Peyton hits a jumper an angel gets its wings.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 18, 2020, 08:51:09 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 18, 2020, 08:43:13 PM
The Chris Paul contract is way too much. Especially at his age with the risk of injury.

BUT if we had him....can you imagine what the man would say to Randall bringing the ball up the court?

I do not think Paul would abide that shit.

Randall could be so great if he just reigned in the weakest parts of his game. But with the Knicks, captain-less, you get the feeling he has carte blanche to just do whatever the fuck he wants.

Explore what it takes to get D'angelo Russell.  He fits the need for a PG and his age fits the timeline and he is signed for the next three years after this one for about $29 mil per year. 

One year longer commitment than CP3 but cheaper younger and less risk of injury.

I don't know what it would take.... primarily first round picks, and  maybe Portis/Ellington are pieces they'd value for their three pt abilities as the salary filler to match contract$.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 18, 2020, 09:01:09 PM
We have nothing GS wants - except picks
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 18, 2020, 09:18:33 PM
FRANK JUST PLAYED STRAIGHT UP D OVER A SCREEN!!!!!!!!

WONDROUS.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 18, 2020, 09:23:53 PM
Knox is just a dumb player

Cuts to the hoop and gets hit with the ball.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 18, 2020, 09:25:20 PM
Frank is 2-7, 0 assists 2 turnovers and a -15
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 18, 2020, 09:29:31 PM
Mr AYTON, I presume?

Downnnnnn goes Boston.

(Solid game for Tatum)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 18, 2020, 09:37:15 PM
WIGGINS having a big night

17-8-5 thru 2.5 quarters

ELECTRIC player
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 18, 2020, 09:47:36 PM
Love bringing Robinson in in the last two minutes...and immediate results.
Title: DAMN!!!
Post by: carlos123 on January 18, 2020, 09:53:21 PM
DAMN!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 18, 2020, 09:58:56 PM
Culver double digits in 10 straight

Beginning to really like that trade from yesterday where we get Culver and Wiggins
Title: Les meditating with his pussycat
Post by: carlos123 on January 18, 2020, 09:59:22 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on January 18, 2020, 04:37:31 PM
Don't even try to start. I am enjoying a silent meditation weekend retreat.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/MN74vTCyXjvWXSAJiuICf0EmUpP7YsYlT77nCYZMyPpT7Y8D5XjBGAs0IKF1TbfiNWEj6N8nVCVD3umZkJzguC0tD0H6xzw6jPF7rSE3Mc9WvZsh1HjtQau2Lts0mB2PIHjRve2kp_-owJdbQecobS7wyLBC4h-iPQBlbH6PTjrnBTVRvvShRNOx3yqz_8-2eFuvdp0t9RrrQoX_L05z2uFDURdi9au6CpGO5z_VJ4XB7J1llvJwb1Y1Gg7ihF2gPFIBTfomR91dlV2AOupv9D4y-_bYWJRSO-V85EEWAPULA4k9yVRLVOST4SJTW2P8Zhl0vGjJox0Ml-ObLA6swMQbe6Y6s7Bax6PUaUn1sTIQ9dLR9HHCvDyJH6LGbBel4LIgXbhZG_2SYoBtxtKQRK22sD0dZZPbqMqNZTkM_22zl3gxXm8-7oWlC3Vouz10LUhlygq9vNB8TduB_yoGd6BXDK77_D7Hy7jbkgK4TbayB7HSItVtJaiVflnKh1GzXIYAFfeKR0ZaYy-IOhwJVexBTApocxZyjUGDg3quh4yLvBsAsh7Sr8M1y1j8FUnBxLpKjyEprD1GUzm29tFmLac5cPeqCEtsasb5Zz7TjFDiA0NkrtKBWjEAcp5vNv0iz8Vu7dQRFTlbVPGm09GibYGuQyG3XrXwNXyYBIWA_qyHKA0IaibvUDj_yEPbOrlAJtzc2B76v-JsvGpEz2_XtmfalsHE7i913nSiim7k5Qc5TZ8=w617-h541-no)
Title: Chico is afraid
Post by: carlos123 on January 18, 2020, 10:05:35 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 18, 2020, 09:29:31 PM
Downnnnnn goes Boston.

(Solid game for Tatum)

Chico is definitely afraid of Bank 😁
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 18, 2020, 10:09:05 PM
Triple double for Lonzo.  3rd in ten games

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 18, 2020, 10:11:34 PM
We managed to make it a close scrappy sloppy affair the whole game. In a game of ugly moments, the last Knicks possession was especially ugly.

For Frank, either the ball handling and passing mistakes, the missing good looks, or preferably both have got to go or at least get turned way down.

Payton at least gets and makes layups.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 18, 2020, 11:03:10 PM
Put it this way,

Frank was a -16
No other Knick was worse than -8

So he was twice as bad as the next worst Knick.

And that my friends, is saying something.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 18, 2020, 11:04:25 PM
We lost by 3


Payton was a +13
Frank a -16


Draw your own conclusions
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 18, 2020, 11:09:54 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 18, 2020, 10:11:34 PM
We managed to make it a close scrappy sloppy affair the whole game. In a game of ugly moments, the last Knicks possession was especially ugly.

For Frank, either the ball handling and passing mistakes, the missing good looks, or preferably both have got to go or at least get turned way down.

Payton at least gets and makes layups.

That last possession was breathtakingly bad.  Clyde was besides himself.  All the other Knicks bringing THEIR DEFENDERS into Randle's space, like a custom-tailored triple team.  Terrible spacing, no sense of ball movement or motion or TRUST in moving the rock and getting the highest percentage shot. 

Subsequently, missed defensive assignments on Harris trey.  Mitchell was way out of position. 

Of particular pain to me. however, given my enthusiasm for Randle, was one of the possessions in the last two minutes, where Peyton is to his right, and Randle is bringing the ball up...GIVE IT TO PEYTON, says I (as does Elfrid's body language)...but Julius is in point forward/hero ball mode, as he dribbles into the paint, clearly intent on bulling his way to the hoop...PASS THE FUCKING BALL, says I...PASS THE FUCKING BALL, says I again.  I forget it if was an offensive foul or some other miscue; BE THAT AS IT MAY, a turnover, and a wasted possession. 

I am on record as opposed to the Chris Paul Fantasy trades, for a variety of reasons.  Not the least of which is that THERE IS NOT A GHOST OF A CHANCE CP wants any part of NY.  Be that as it may...

With respect to BoD, tell you what....

If Chris Paul was on the court, he'd have bitten Julius' dick off and stuffed it in his fucking ear; less demonstrably, he still would've shouted at Randle in no uncertain terms, a la fucking Oscar Robertson, "Shut up and GIVE ME THE FUCKING BALL," allowing the PG to call a play, get the spacing right, call out picks and screens, facilitate motion and thus engender all the elements which go into setting up a make-able shot. 

[Sigh]

PS: Fuck Andrew Wiggins. 
Title: That's On The Coach
Post by: chipstern on January 18, 2020, 11:14:30 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 18, 2020, 11:04:25 PM
We lost by 3


Payton was a +13
Frank a -16


Draw your own conclusions

Word.

Which only makes the fact that Eldfrid didn't have the ball in his hands for key possessions down the stretch even more incomprehensible. 

I have been pointing the finger at Julius in that regard, but hey, THAT IS ON COACH MILLER. 

Give the ball to your point guard. 

When it is do or die time, do you want the ball in the hands of the +5 PF with an admittedly solid 14-12-5 (but 5 turnovers), or the offensively challenged 5-for-14 PG, who nevertheless has racked up 7 assists, 7 rebounds and 10 points with only 1 turnover for a TEAM LEADING +13. 

Winnable game.  Fucking winnable game. 

That's on coach. 

Players have to execute, and make fucking shots, but coach has to have an extension on the floor, and that facilitator is the PG. 
Title: Wiggins
Post by: chipstern on January 18, 2020, 11:25:16 PM
Okay.

A triple double in 36 minutes. 

18-10-11.

Kiid is impressed. 

Would it be churlish of me to point out how...

A) Wolves lose by 10.

B) Wiggins is 1-5 from trey. 

C) Despite the sexy stat line, Wiggins is a team leading -13. 

D) And at the risk of repeating myself, Wolves LOSE BY TEN. 

Yup, he'd make a perfect Knick. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 18, 2020, 11:26:32 PM
Randle did exactly as you described another time and found Morris for a hoop.  Last 2 minutes.

Wiggins did finish his triple double
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 18, 2020, 11:29:02 PM
Yeah I get it. You won't take Ball when he is a FA either

Stinking genius
Title: Nod To BoD
Post by: chipstern on January 18, 2020, 11:30:26 PM
Does CP3 have gas left in the tank?

He most assuredly does. 

Thunder beat the Blazers, and in 28 minutes Paul is 11-15, 3-5 from trey, 5-5 from the charity stripe, for for 20-4-7 and a team leading +20. 

Do the Thunder have any interest in trading Paul, to anyone, let alone, to the fucking Knicks? 

They most assuredly DO NOT. 

Get over it, dude. 
Title: Pendejo Chico
Post by: chipstern on January 18, 2020, 11:35:28 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 18, 2020, 11:29:02 PM
Yeah I get it. You won't take Ball when he is a FA either

Stinking genius

Did I say ANYTHING about Ball, tube steak? 

Notice how often I have been praising him in posts of the past month. 

A typical Trump move. 

Blow me. 

PS: Oh, and sorry to reference REALITY here, but Ball is locked up in New Orleans through 2020 and 2021, and a qualifying offer of 14.3 million comes due in '22, so Ball isn't exactly a free agent, now, or for the next three years, is he, ASS HAT? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 18, 2020, 11:44:57 PM
Like I said....we will have our future at pg by then, very likely.  And yes. Of course if I am the Pels I give him what he wants.  But no telling if dollars will be enough or if Ball will like so many others wish to pick his destination
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 18, 2020, 11:47:18 PM
It's ok brah I don't think Minny is inclined to move AW anyway at this time.  Only reason would be a "him or me" ultimatum with Towns
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 18, 2020, 11:48:13 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 18, 2020, 11:44:57 PM
Like I said....we will have our future at pg by then, very likely.  And yes. Of course if I am the Pels I give him what he wants.  But no telling if dollars will be enough or if Ball will like so many others wish to pick his destination

Not a viable option for three years. 

And I do not think NO is trading him. 

As for Jrue Holiday, we missed the boat on him back when Donnie was all in on Jordan Hill. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 18, 2020, 11:49:52 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 18, 2020, 11:47:18 PM
It's ok brah I don't think Minny is inclined to move AW anyway at this time.  Only reason would be a "him or me" ultimatum with Towns

I sincerely doubt that Towns has ANY interest whatsoever in forcing a trade. 

Circle Jerk Conjecture. 

No more.

No less. 

No basis in reality. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 19, 2020, 12:14:09 AM
As for Jrue Holiday, we missed the boat on him back when Donnie was all in on Jordan Hill.


Jrue's a JAP, not a stud
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on January 19, 2020, 12:22:17 AM
Quote from: Kam on January 18, 2020, 11:04:25 PM
We lost by 3


Payton was a +13
Frank a -16


Draw your own conclusions

Frank had less to do with this loss than almost everyone else.

Missed free throws.  Stupid passing.  Turnovers.  Please.

Shove your myopic, hate filled stats where the sun don't shine.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 19, 2020, 02:40:09 AM
Quote from: FWK00 on January 18, 2020, 05:26:48 PM
Does Bazemore even play these days?  I was under the impression he needed a change of scenery.

If you're going to present trade ideas, you might want to look up the non-Knix you're trading for.

Baze has been starting (21 of 43 games) and playing 30 mins a night.  The problem is he's as erratic as ever.  He's like a stronger Bullock.  Good effort but inconsistent.  Baze also something of a mistake player.  Actually this year Baze's shot has been terrible (34% FG)

POR seems to have wanted to shed some salary and cut back on lux tax.  They have the highest payroll and a losing record. 
Quote
the Trail Blazers save $12.3 on the deal, and that it cuts the organization's luxury tax bill in half.

So save money and see if Ariza can be juvenated again.  Maybe Trev just lost interest in SAC and still has some 3&D left in him.  Certainly shooting better than Baze this year.  And a more versatile defender.

IF Por continues to lose, they could even try to flip Ariza to a playoff team, as an Iggy consolation prize.

Looks like this is Ariza's 11th team.  Nice long career, especially for a 2nd rounder.

Trivia Q: which 2nd rounder has played the most NBA games?
(I don't know the answer)
Trivia 2:
Who's the 2nd longest tenured NBA player (after Vince)?
(I know the answer)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 19, 2020, 02:50:03 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 18, 2020, 11:47:18 PM
I don't think Minny is inclined to move AW anyway at this time.  Only reason would be a "him or me" ultimatum with Towns

Or recognizing a Sell High moment on a player who doesn't impact winning and prior to this half season looked to be under a horrible contract.

Mini would be smart to unload Uncle Wiggy -- a 20 point scorer! -- for value now.  And build around KAT, Cove, Culver, Okogie .. and whatever Wig returns.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 19, 2020, 03:27:31 AM
Sure do look like the starters with Elf played well (32 mins) and the bench with Franc (16 mins) faltered.

I'll try to catch a replay.

Knix started 4 journeymen and Randle, who's on his 3rd team in 3 years (one trade away from journeyman status).

Elfin:  4th team in last 4 years
MaMo: 5th team in 10 years
Tahj:  4th team in last 5 years
Bullox: 5th team in 9 years
+
Randle: 3rd team in 6* years
(essentially 5 years, since he broke his leg 14 minutes into his pro debut and missed his entire 1st season)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 19, 2020, 03:30:52 AM
If you feel the primal urge or have a role in the play or game plan to set a screen on a key possession, unless you are setting up a spread screen and roll, screen away from the ball.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on January 19, 2020, 09:16:28 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 19, 2020, 02:40:09 AM
Quote from: FWK00 on January 18, 2020, 05:26:48 PM
Does Bazemore even play these days?  I was under the impression he needed a change of scenery.

If you're going to present trade ideas, you might want to look up the non-Knix you're trading for.

Baze has been starting (21 of 43 games) and playing 30 mins a night.  The problem is he's as erratic as ever.  He's like a stronger Bullock.  Good effort but inconsistent.  Baze also something of a mistake player.  Actually this year Baze's shot has been terrible (34% FG)

POR seems to have wanted to shed some salary and cut back on lux tax.  They have the highest payroll and a losing record. 
Quote
the Trail Blazers save $12.3 on the deal, and that it cuts the organization's luxury tax bill in half.

So save money and see if Ariza can be juvenated again.  Maybe Trev just lost interest in SAC and still has some 3&D left in him.  Certainly shooting better than Baze this year.  And a more versatile defender.

IF Por continues to lose, they could even try to flip Ariza to a playoff team, as an Iggy consolation prize.

Looks like this is Ariza's 11th team.  Nice long career, especially for a 2nd rounder.

Trivia Q: which 2nd rounder has played the most NBA games?
(I don't know the answer)
Trivia 2:
Who's the 2nd longest tenured NBA player (after Vince)?
(I know the answer)

I thought it was a buy low opportunity.  Obviously he's not a generational player but he would be an incremental upgrade.

If you claim he's stronger than our inconsistent Bullock - yippee.

We are losing many games by a hair.  Any net upgrade in talent is worthwhile.

I thought (based on some research) that Bazemore was an unhappy camper in Portland and that, with a change of scenery and a good coach, he could contribute.

The trade seemed to happen simultaneous to my posting - I was simply unaware of it.  My bad.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 19, 2020, 09:43:22 AM
Every game he doesn't stamp as HIS is "his fault.

We blah blah about who we want running our show but when Frank comes nowhere near that standard it's ok?  Come on.

I am beginning to agree he is a small forward. The improvement should come with the jumper, as a goal but now setting out to be a PREMIUM BOARD GUY would be a nice aside.

I did like that one instance where Frank refused to switch fought through screening action and it paid off.  If you watch the replacement look for that in last ten minutes
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 19, 2020, 10:10:06 AM
Quote from: FWK00 on January 19, 2020, 12:22:17 AM
Quote from: Kam on January 18, 2020, 11:04:25 PM
We lost by 3


Payton was a +13
Frank a -16


Draw your own conclusions

Frank had less to do with this loss than almost everyone else.

Missed free throws.  Stupid passing.  Turnovers.  Please.

Shove your myopic, hate filled stats where the sun don't shine.


hate filled stats

numbers don't lie

they don't have opinions

they just are

you can't wish it away

you can't blame the messenger
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on January 19, 2020, 10:30:32 AM
Quote from: Kam on January 19, 2020, 10:10:06 AM
Quote from: FWK00 on January 19, 2020, 12:22:17 AM
Quote from: Kam on January 18, 2020, 11:04:25 PM
We lost by 3


Payton was a +13
Frank a -16


Draw your own conclusions

Frank had less to do with this loss than almost everyone else.

Missed free throws.  Stupid passing.  Turnovers.  Please.

Shove your myopic, hate filled stats where the sun don't shine.


hate filled stats

numbers don't lie

they don't have opinions

they just are

you can't wish it away

you can't blame the messenger

You are not a messenger you are a troll who picks a victim and doesn't relent in their hate speech.  Spare me your "message".

If you actually believe in numbers and stats then you might acknowledge that the historical statistical roadmap for young guys joining the NBA is a 5 year journey with no short-cuts.  It takes time and metaphorical bleeding to hone an NBA game (or at least it used to be).  In the age of chucking from the three pt line, maturity is being redefined for PGs - they have become 6th man shooting guards without a conscience.

So when you evaluate Frank or anyone else periodically picking sequential bad games only and declare you have an insight - let me just say that that's bullshit.

Now, I follow Clarence Gaines on Twitter and he has a different opinion of Frankie and his potential than you do.

Let's see~~~~  Kam or gaines, Kam or Gaines... 

Its called a no-brainer decision.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on January 19, 2020, 10:37:58 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 19, 2020, 09:43:22 AM
Every game he doesn't stamp as HIS is "his fault.

We blah blah about who we want running our show but when Frank comes nowhere near that standard it's ok?  Come on.

I am beginning to agree he is a small forward. The improvement should come with the jumper, as a goal but now setting out to be a PREMIUM BOARD GUY would be a nice aside.

I did like that one instance where Frank refused to switch fought through screening action and it paid off.  If you watch the replacement look for that in last ten minutes

Well, "we" are all about rebuilding as long as there are no bumps in the road and as long as all the development can happen in summer league so that all our teenagers are locked and loaded to compete with battle-tested veteran teams that are stacked three deep.

What's wrong with that?

I mean if we summarize what "we" want and put cash considerations aside, the only thing we want is for Payton and Frankie to play like CP3 in their third and fourth year in the league.  Is that too much to ask?

And why isn't Knox playing like a young Vince Carter yet - sweet baby jesus.

"The Knicks are 11-32. Mitch, Knox & Frank played ~1/5 of the minutes and took took fewer shots combined than Marcus Morris. Iggy & Dot were DNP’s. This seems odd." - Jonathan Macri on twitter

BTW:  I agree about Ntilikina being a SF - developing a game closer to Sprewell than Mark Jackson.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 19, 2020, 11:08:57 AM
Well, look. We need to have some games where our guards play better than theirs.

This almost never happens.

And it's just becoming normal. We've become dull to just how decisive that gap is.

Kam mentioned D'angelo Russell. And hell yes, Mr. Russell would do nicely.

Does anyone have scenarios where a trade to the Knicks makes sense for the Warriors?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on January 19, 2020, 11:34:06 AM
Quote from: elephant on January 19, 2020, 11:08:57 AM
Well, look. We need to have some games where our guards play better than theirs.

This almost never happens.

And it's just becoming normal. We've become dull to just how decisive that gap is.

Kam mentioned D'angelo Russell. And hell yes, Mr. Russell would do nicely.

Does anyone have scenarios where a trade to the Knicks makes sense for the Warriors?

We need to have some games where our players play better than theirs.

This happens about a third of the time and we typically blame our PGs for it.

Yep.  Mr. Russell would do nicely as would just about any PG playing for a playoff bound team.  In fact, any of their players would be an upgrade anywhere on the roster.

Let's blame the FO that nobody wants to trade them to us for our assets.

Sorry, ele, the tsunami of blame, counter-blame, magic-thinking and so on is wearing me down.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 19, 2020, 11:43:24 AM
Quote from: FWK00 on January 19, 2020, 10:30:32 AM
Quote from: Kam on January 19, 2020, 10:10:06 AM
Quote from: FWK00 on January 19, 2020, 12:22:17 AM
Quote from: Kam on January 18, 2020, 11:04:25 PM
We lost by 3


Payton was a +13
Frank a -16


Draw your own conclusions

Frank had less to do with this loss than almost everyone else.

Missed free throws.  Stupid passing.  Turnovers.  Please.

Shove your myopic, hate filled stats where the sun don't shine.


hate filled stats

numbers don't lie

they don't have opinions

they just are

you can't wish it away

you can't blame the messenger

You are not a messenger you are a troll who picks a victim and doesn't relent in their hate speech.  Spare me your "message".

If you actually believe in numbers and stats then you might acknowledge that the historical statistical roadmap for young guys joining the NBA is a 5 year journey with no short-cuts.  It takes time and metaphorical bleeding to hone an NBA game (or at least it used to be).  In the age of chucking from the three pt line, maturity is being redefined for PGs - they have become 6th man shooting guards without a conscience.

So when you evaluate Frank or anyone else periodically picking sequential bad games only and declare you have an insight - let me just say that that's bullshit.

Now, I follow Clarence Gaines on Twitter and he has a different opinion of Frankie and his potential than you do.

Let's see~~~~  Kam or gaines, Kam or Gaines... 

Its called a no-brainer decision.

I posted stats for one game. You all do the same the moment there is a game Frank plays well in.
 So what the hell did Gaines say about last night's game?   Quote me Gaines cuz clearly you can't form your own opinions.  That's why you call it a no-brainer.  You're trusting someone else's brain and putting yours on vacation.  What if we don't want to give Frank 5 or 6 years and 2 or 3 different positions to finally find a place for him.  We don't coddle anyone else this much.  Why not more sympathy for everyone else you're ready to write off?  Give me a break about this troll business.  I supported Frank for a long ass time and you'd know that if you weren't a fly by poster.  Now i'm getting to the point where I expect NBA level play consistently from Frank and i'm frustrated how infrequently he delivers a complete game.  It's not crazy to want to see results by Year 3.  Its not a developmental league.  Frank aint a baby anymore.  Knicks didn't do Frank any favors, but life aint fair.  This is year 3.  Results please.   

You guys are ready to write off DSJ and guess what he is also in Year 3.

So be consistent in your evals.

And tell Clarence "Fountain of BBALL Knowledge" Gaines he should've taken Donovan Mitchell
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 19, 2020, 12:39:49 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 19, 2020, 11:08:57 AM
Does anyone have scenarios where a trade to the Knicks makes sense for the Warriors?

GSW needs a bench for next year,
Knix could offer Portis, Knox, Elf = Tangelo
GS would have a quality backup PG in Elf (though one who can't make a 3).  A young athletic F in Knox.  And they could save money by declining Portis' $15M option.  If they like him, they could try to sign him for longer and less per season, like 3/$30M.

Would GS be willing to do that?  Could they get more?  Most teams are set at PG, though Tangelo is a combo G and could play with a PG.

More likely to get GS to bite would be to include one of Mitch/RJB!
Say, Mitch + Portis + Ellington = Tangelo
(we could take back Chriss or some other low contract guy to balance the players a bit).

I'm not a Tangelo fan.  But he plays hard and can score.  Would you be willing to include one of Mitch, Knox, RJB to get Tangelo is the Q?  that's probably what it takes to get a deal done.

Another option could be Morris + Elf + Bullock for Tangelo + Chriss.  I'd rather give them Ellington than Bullock, but GS doesn't have any contracts in the $5M range to send us.  Basically a Morris for Tangelo trade.  With Elf thrown in as a surplus PG GS could use.  This makes sense if NYK aren't likely to re-up Morris.
Plug Morris into the old Durant slot.  And gives them a guy who can defend quality F's.

There's 3 trades that work and might entice GS.  And I didn't even make an RJB move.  I have it:
Morris + Elf + Bullock - a starter and two useful backups
Mitch + Portis + Ellington - 3 useful bench guy
Knox + Elf + Portis - 3 bench guys

Elf would be a useful backup to Steph for them.
Morris would fill a nice gap, but need to be reupped
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on January 19, 2020, 12:42:26 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 19, 2020, 10:10:06 AM
Quote from: FWK00 on January 19, 2020, 12:22:17 AM
Quote from: Kam on January 18, 2020, 11:04:25 PM
We lost by 3


Payton was a +13
Frank a -16


Draw your own conclusions

Frank had less to do with this loss than almost everyone else.

Missed free throws.  Stupid passing.  Turnovers.  Please.

Shove your myopic, hate filled stats where the sun don't shine.


hate filled stats

numbers don't lie

they don't have opinions

they just are

you can't wish it away

you can't blame the messenger

https://twitter.com/ChipperMurphy/status/1218748935805849600 (https://twitter.com/ChipperMurphy/status/1218748935805849600)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 19, 2020, 01:04:45 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on January 19, 2020, 12:42:26 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 19, 2020, 10:10:06 AM
Quote from: FWK00 on January 19, 2020, 12:22:17 AM
Quote from: Kam on January 18, 2020, 11:04:25 PM
We lost by 3


Payton was a +13
Frank a -16


Draw your own conclusions

Frank had less to do with this loss than almost everyone else.

Missed free throws.  Stupid passing.  Turnovers.  Please.

Shove your myopic, hate filled stats where the sun don't shine.


hate filled stats

numbers don't lie

they don't have opinions

they just are

you can't wish it away

you can't blame the messenger

https://twitter.com/ChipperMurphy/status/1218748935805849600 (https://twitter.com/ChipperMurphy/status/1218748935805849600)

Post the whole thing:

Quote
Frank played about 3 minutes of game time with Morris and 7 with Randle. He played with both of them at the same time for 2 minutes.

Payton played with Morris and Randle at the same time for about 30 of his 32 minutes.

So the supposition is that Elf got more minutes with Morris and Randle, thus the +16 for Elf

So the theory that Elf's +16 was inflated by Morris and Randle and Elf OF HIS OWN DIDN"T LIFT THE TEAM

All right, i''ll play!

Except that Morris and Randle were only +5 each.   Ties for 2nd best after Elf's +16

When Elf sat, we went negative.  Maybe blame it on everyone OTHER than Frank.  Fine.  Let's blame Knox Portis and Trier for bringing Frank down.  I'll buy that.   That's what you're selling.  That's what you're always selling.

Title: Our best 5-man unit by far
Post by: Kam on January 19, 2020, 01:13:20 PM
through 44minutes over ten games

.M. Morris Sr., .E. Payton, .J. Randle, .B. Portis, .R. Barrett   

Offense      Defense     Net
133.3   104.2   29.2   


https://stats.nba.com/lineups/advanced/?Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612752&sort=NET_RATING&dir=1&CF=MIN*GE*24 (https://stats.nba.com/lineups/advanced/?Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612752&sort=NET_RATING&dir=1&CF=MIN*GE*24)
Title: Re: Our best 5-man unit by far
Post by: FWK00 on January 19, 2020, 02:22:42 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 19, 2020, 01:13:20 PM
through 44minutes over ten games

.M. Morris Sr., .E. Payton, .J. Randle, .B. Portis, .R. Barrett   

Offense      Defense     Net
133.3   104.2   29.2   


https://stats.nba.com/lineups/advanced/?Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612752&sort=NET_RATING&dir=1&CF=MIN*GE*24 (https://stats.nba.com/lineups/advanced/?Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612752&sort=NET_RATING&dir=1&CF=MIN*GE*24)

Against who and who was coaching?  I ony ask because Ntilikina was playing under Fizdale in massive losses in which our PF Randle was a mess while Payton sat.

Yeah.  Keep them stats coming - apple and orange comparisons.

You might also note that Dotson sat last night.  Ntilikina and Dotson are extremely effective playing together.

But yes Frankie had a poor first half and a redeemable second half playing little.

You win.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on January 19, 2020, 02:41:38 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 19, 2020, 12:39:49 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 19, 2020, 11:08:57 AM
Does anyone have scenarios where a trade to the Knicks makes sense for the Warriors?

GSW needs a bench for next year,
Knix could offer Portis, Knox, Elf = Tangelo
GS would have a quality backup PG in Elf (though one who can't make a 3).  A young athletic F in Knox.  And they could save money by declining Portis' $15M option.  If they like him, they could try to sign him for longer and less per season, like 3/$30M.

Would GS be willing to do that?  Could they get more?  Most teams are set at PG, though Tangelo is a combo G and could play with a PG.

More likely to get GS to bite would be to include one of Mitch/RJB!
Say, Mitch + Portis + Ellington = Tangelo
(we could take back Chriss or some other low contract guy to balance the players a bit).

I'm not a Tangelo fan.  But he plays hard and can score.  Would you be willing to include one of Mitch, Knox, RJB to get Tangelo is the Q?  that's probably what it takes to get a deal done.

Another option could be Morris + Elf + Bullock for Tangelo + Chriss.  I'd rather give them Ellington than Bullock, but GS doesn't have any contracts in the $5M range to send us.  Basically a Morris for Tangelo trade.  With Elf thrown in as a surplus PG GS could use.  This makes sense if NYK aren't likely to re-up Morris.
Plug Morris into the old Durant slot.  And gives them a guy who can defend quality F's.

There's 3 trades that work and might entice GS.  And I didn't even make an RJB move.  I have it:
Morris + Elf + Bullock - a starter and two useful backups
Mitch + Portis + Ellington - 3 useful bench guy
Knox + Elf + Portis - 3 bench guys

Elf would be a useful backup to Steph for them.
Morris would fill a nice gap, but need to be reupped

If you could get Russell then say goodbye to Frankie.  *That* would be a legitimate reason to trade Frankie.  Long term foolish but justifiable.

Morris, Bullock, Frankie, and a Mavs FRP for Russell and Poole.

That should do it.

But then the larger question becomes whether or not this is a complementary trade to the rebuild or the first chip in a win-now strategy.  In either case, more chips would have to fall.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 19, 2020, 02:56:02 PM
Looks like this is Ariza's 11th team.  Nice long career, especially for a 2nd rounder.


......and nobody ever wants to keep him

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 19, 2020, 03:01:12 PM
Mini would be smart to unload Uncle Wiggy -- a 20 point scorer! -- for value now.  And build around KAT, Cove, Culver, Okogie .. and whatever Wig returns.


Well alright - lets do it then.

I was adding Culver over Mitch - as an upgrade.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 19, 2020, 03:12:48 PM
Mini would be smart to unload Uncle Wiggy -- a 20 point scorer! -- for value now.  And build around KAT, Cove, Culver, Okogie .. and whatever Wig returns.


Gaines OWNS the Frank pick.  Was instrumental in the selection.  And was fired

what do you expect him to say?

Gaines also lauds David Fizdale.  His dad coached at a black college.  Did he champion any white players?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 19, 2020, 03:26:15 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 19, 2020, 09:43:22 AM
Every game he doesn't stamp as HIS is "his fault.

We blah blah about who we want running our show but when Frank comes nowhere near that standard it's ok?  Come on.

I am beginning to agree he is a small forward. The improvement should come with the jumper, as a goal but now setting out to be a PREMIUM BOARD GUY would be a nice aside.

I did like that one instance where Frank refused to switch fought through screening action and it paid off.  If you watch the replacement look for that in last ten minutes

That should say REPLAY - my bad
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 19, 2020, 04:39:23 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 19, 2020, 02:56:02 PM
Looks like this is Ariza's 11th team.  Nice long career, especially for a 2nd rounder.

......and nobody ever wants to keep him
heh

Ariza's 11th stop, 9th different team.  He's had two stints with WAS and HOU.  From age 27-32 he was real solid, during 2 years in WASH and 4 in HOU.  Averged 37% on volume 3's, and played stolid D those years.

From the 2004 draft, only Ariza and Dwight Howard still playing this year.  Iggy, JR Smith and Deng are in limbo, involuntary retired for now.

PHX did real well, signing a 33 year old Ariza as a FA on a large 1 year contract.  Then flipping him to the Wiz for Uber mid-season.
PHX ans SAC were odd FA choices for Ariza, but I guess he just followed the money.

Barely started until his 5th year (20 games) and didn't become a full-time starter until his 6th/age 24 year.  That's likely the timeframe Knox is on.  Let's hope Knox can figure out D, and learn when and how to use his athleticism/aggression.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 19, 2020, 04:49:13 PM
So Knix have 4 potential starting PG's they could try to add:

Chris Paul
Dinwiddie
Captain Vleetheart
T'angelo

I really need to see FVV this year.  2 years ago I thought he just killed it as the 2nd unit PG.  Last year he was up and down, with some bad slumps, but was adjusting to starting more.  And this year looks like he's in top form.  He's a good deal like Jameer Nelson, a short tank who could bomb away.  But FVV goes a bit harder and probably a better scorer.  Also, there's a fair amount of Lowry in FVV, more approach and effort than stylistically.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 19, 2020, 04:53:17 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 19, 2020, 04:49:13 PM
So Knix have 4 potential starting PG's they could try to add:

Chris Paul
Dinwiddie
Captain Vleetheart
T'angelo

I really need to see FVV this year.  2 years ago I thought he just killed it as the 2nd unit PG.  Last year he was up and down, with some bad slumps, but was adjusting to starting more.  And this year looks like he's in top form.  He's a good deal like Jameer Nelson, a short tank who could bomb away.  But FVV goes a bit harder and probably a better scorer.  Also, there's a fair amount of Lowry in FVV, more approach and effort than stylistically.

Captain Vleetheart

Dinosaur Blues

Dinah Shore Shoes
Title: Spencer
Post by: chipstern on January 19, 2020, 04:54:03 PM
It what alternate universe would the Nyets EVER contemplate gifting us Dim Witted? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 19, 2020, 05:13:53 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 19, 2020, 04:49:13 PM
So Knix have 4 potential starting PG's they could try to add:

Chris Paul
Dinwiddie
Captain Vleetheart
T'angelo

I really need to see FVV this year.  2 years ago I thought he just killed it as the 2nd unit PG.  Last year he was up and down, with some bad slumps, but was adjusting to starting more.  And this year looks like he's in top form.  He's a good deal like Jameer Nelson, a short tank who could bomb away.  But FVV goes a bit harder and probably a better scorer.  Also, there's a fair amount of Lowry in FVV, more approach and effort than stylistically.

Why do you keep saying Dinwiddie?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 19, 2020, 05:26:00 PM
Do you think there is any chance at all Netz are trying to save this season?

Maybe Morris and a #1 for Dinwiddie?

But do WE do that rather than taking back a 1 for Morris?  For one year of Spence?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 19, 2020, 05:27:51 PM
When he shakes off the rust, LaVert should be the starting SG.
The Kyrie/Dinwiddie pairing isn't working.
Dinwiddie won't want to come off the bench.
Nets need a shakeup.
Dinwiddie underpaid this year and next, then will look to cash in, and want more than the Nets will pony up for a backup G.
(Lavert&Shirley's $16M deal kicks in next season)

Make them a good offer and Dinwiddie is available.
Maybe I'm a little early, but that's how it's likely to play out.
Kyrie and Dinwiddie are friends, that's about the only thing that might thwart a Dimwitty trade.

Morris plus to the Nets ...
I wish thye had some midtier contracts they could add in so we could give them Elf or Franc, as a cheaper replacement backup PG.

Otherwise, Franc was terrible in his late 1Q/early 2Q stint.  Helped blow the lead with his turnovers, feeble dribbling, losing the ball on a drive, not getting a shot off to end the 1st.  He was giving up the ball 25+ feet out and still turning it over.  Ugly.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 19, 2020, 05:30:58 PM
The Kyrie/Dinwiddie pairing isn't working.


This is silly

Dinwiddie won't want to come off the bench.


What does that matter?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 19, 2020, 05:37:33 PM
41-30 (11 games with)
43-29
39-39 (4 games with)

- fg/3 pt percentages for Dinwiddie this year with/without Kyrie
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 19, 2020, 05:43:08 PM
You don't seem to get it.  Let me help you.

Nets played the same level with and without Kyrie.  That has to be concerning.  If Dinwiddie becomes unhappy with his role (or Lavert with his), it affects the team.  Unhappy players often force their way out.  At the least, if Spencer becomes unhappy, he won't resign after next year, when they would have trouble affording him anyway.

Between role and salary constraints, Dinwiddie isn't long for BKY.
Maybe they'll trade him next year and not this.  But with a good offer, he could be had.  Nets could use the shakeup and to deal with an upcoming issue early.

Edit: the shooting stats are meaningless.  Team play, son.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 19, 2020, 06:01:47 PM
Heh

You're beautiful

It's 15 fucking games

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 19, 2020, 06:05:29 PM
Maybe they'll trade him next year and not this.  But with a good offer, he could be had. Nets could use the shakeup and to deal with an upcoming issue early.


Morris + is all you have said (I said similar but with a twist)

Lets hear the pitch.

I still like Dinwiddie on Nets when they are whole next season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 19, 2020, 06:10:58 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 19, 2020, 05:26:00 PM
Do you think there is any chance at all Netz are trying to save this season?

Maybe Morris and a #1 for Dinwiddie?

But do WE do that rather than taking back a 1 for Morris?  For one year of Spence?

Repost in case you missed it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 19, 2020, 09:29:21 PM
Brazdekis gets 20 and 6 first game back with Westchester
Title: LaMelo
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 19, 2020, 09:41:07 PM
A lingering foot injury will prevent LaMelo Ball from finishing his season in Australia. He played just 12 games for the Illawara Hawks, but his performance has some scouts convinced that he should be the first player selected in this year’s draft.

Well, well...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 20, 2020, 03:22:50 AM
A bit early to be worrying about draftees, but always listen to “some scouts”. They are never wrong.

That said, he wouldn’t be the worst guy to add to our squad especially if our kids can somewhat get their shooting up over the remainder of the season. That’s his huge hole at this stage.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 20, 2020, 05:05:55 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 19, 2020, 05:26:00 PM
Do you think there is any chance at all Netz are trying to save this season?

YES

Quote
Maybe Morris and a #1 for Dinwiddie?

I don't want to give up a pick, and that's not what the Nets need anyway. 

If they flip Dimwilly, they could use a backup PG from us, and we have a surplus there.  Meaning Elf or Franc could be packaged with Morris.  Problem is their only mid-tier contracts to work such a deal are DeAndretheGiant, who is a KY/KD buddy and already had an agnostic year with the Knix.  Temple could be tossed in, but they like him and we don't really need him.

All of which is why I didn't toss out a firm offer.  Probably the kind of trade that requires a 3rd team to make work.  Which admittedly lowers the chance of a deal going down.  Though we certainly have other movable pieces (hello: Bob Portis, Jr. Smith, Trier/Dot, Ellington, Bullox) to complete a bigger deal that yields something else and shuffles the money copacetically.

I do think something along the lines of a Morris + Elf for Dinwiddie + Kurucs would be beneficial for both teams.  Morris for Dinwiddie = both teams fill a hole with a quality starter.  Added bonus, Morris provides leadership.  But the numbers aren't easily workable (without DeAndre in there, and that's likely off the table). 

Kyrie - LaVert - Morris - KD - Jarhead Allen
That's pretty kickass/take-no-prisoners.  Provided the stars can stay healthy. 
Elf - Temple - Harris - Prince - Claxton

Dinwiddie - RJB - Knox - Randle - Mitch
Two Building Blocks, and if you squint, four positions covered.Franc - Dot - Bullock - Taj


Quote
But do WE do that rather than taking back a 1 for Morris?  For one year of Spence?

It's a year and a half of Dim Spence, and then you simply re-sign him. What's the problem?  It's a year more locked up than expiring Morris.  Gives us plenty of time to evaluate Dinwiddie's fit and value (for re-signing salary).

I'd rather get Dimwitty than flip Morris for a late 1st rounder.
I would like to flip Morris plus for a promising yute and a late 1st.  Simple, Simons and a POR pick.  But that likely isn't available.  POR probably giving up on this season, with the salary dump for Ariza as evidence.  Sure they are hoping Ariza can fit better than Baze, and Ariza can guard bigger F's allowing them to hide Melo more.  And they'll get Nurk and Zach back at some point.  But they know they aren't contending this year.  And Morris for yute/picks is a contend this year move.

Otherwise, Kyrie has been injured, has said stupid things, rumored to be a poor leader in BKY.  Gee, who could have guessed ...?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 20, 2020, 06:50:29 AM
Next year Lavert's deal kicks in and the Nets presumed starting backcourt (Kyrie & Caris) combine to make $50M.  Add in Dinwiddie's value $11.5M, and you're talking $61M for 3 G's.
So these 3 G's sure better work together well, impact winning, and hopefully can all function on the court together a fair amount. 

LaVert has just returned (and Dinwiddie a Kyrie pal) so maybe they wait this year and up to next deadline to see how all 3 pair, especially after KD degimps.  But right now they have a month to see how the 3 mesh up to the deadline.

Other issues: KI & KD want to handle a lot, so what does that leave for Dinwiddie and LaVert to do?  Cut?  Spot up shooting?  Better off re-signing Joe Harris who is expiring and needs to be paid.  Another cost.  He'll run maybe $14M.  They probably want to keep Wil, since he's a vet who can at least try to guard LeBJ, Kawhi, Anti-Greek types.  Another $5M+ ...

So:
1) do KI, Lavert and Diwiddie fit together to justify $61M next year and close to $70M the following year after re-upping Spence?
2) KI, KD, Spence, C-LaV, is there enough ball to go around?
3) Is there a big enough role and good enough fit to justify keeping Dinwiddie and re-signing him?
4) can they afford to re-sign Dinwiddie to perhaps $18M per, when they need to re-sign JoeHarris and Wil (for roughly a combined $18M)?

Yeah, they'd need to re-sign Morris, but close to $20M per is more justifiable for a clear starter, a 2-way F, who upgrades the starting unit.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 20, 2020, 10:32:02 AM
I don't want to give up a pick, and that's not what the Nets need anyway.


Disagree

Nets get the pick because in losing Dinwiddie they weaken NEXT year's team

You have them going all in for the NOW of it, which makes little sense.  By June the deal sucks for them except maybe having helped line their pockets a biy by getting a few playoff games (even that is debatable (my deal with Dinwiddie has to include Nets coming out smelling sweeter for 2020-21 and beyond.  Even the Morris and a late #1 falls a bit short of that)

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 20, 2020, 11:59:09 AM
I have them re-upping Morris instead of Dinwiddie.  And then not bothering with Wil (akin to a $6M savings on Morris' contract).

Anyway, I still think we have 4 potential PG targets.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 20, 2020, 12:19:55 PM
I wont argue with you all day

Its just a dumb idea

Nets are in a "do we play more for strengthening future teams?" mode.   If not they will just play it out and look pretty good for next year, when they expect to compete for a conference title.

Conclusion:  If Dinwiddie goes (and I think the press is to far ahead on this - that chances are small) it wont be for someone that is an ending deal.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 20, 2020, 12:21:59 PM
If you want to make a case for MORRIS/KYRIE led team THIS YEAR challenging in a series vs Toronto/Boston/Philly/Milwaukee - go right ahead.  It's a talented trio with Allen.

But i'd then tell you Morris is taking Joe Harris's minutes.  So they get deeper - how much better being debatable
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 20, 2020, 02:35:05 PM
Harris moves to a 6th man role and still gets plenty of court time.
Anyway, I didn't know a Dinwiddie trade has been in the news at all.
But seems inevitable to me.

I do hope the Knix make some moves.
Trade either Morris/Randle. 
Trier/Dot.  Portis, Ellington & Smith. 
Try to get a legit starter, promising yute, a pick.
Consolidate and upgrade if possible.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 20, 2020, 03:34:37 PM
Trade either Morris/Randle.


Can't trade Randle.

As you are able to assemble the pieces, you KEEP them.

Is there a rule against extending Morris now?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 20, 2020, 03:42:32 PM
In other words - simplistically -

From the 2019 acquisitions, this is what worked, for the money - and what we will keep:

Morris, Randle

This is what we fee could be money used wiser

Elfrid, Bobby P, Taj, Wayne


With my MM extension, roster is:


Dennis/Frank
RJ/Reggie
MM/Kevin
Julius/Iggy
Mitch

for about 70 mil.
80 with 2 draft picks.

Looking for a point and a big.

If we drafted Ball we could either deal/86 Reg or deal KK.




Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 20, 2020, 03:42:55 PM
Add Chris Paul and I'd be inclined to keep Orange&Blue Julius.
Add Tangelo Russell and I'd move Randle.

I'd choose between Randle and Morris.  And I like Morris' toughness, reasonable D, 3's, and leadership better than Randle's inside bully ball (and relative youth).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 20, 2020, 03:45:30 PM
I put a Randle trade at about 4% likelihood.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 20, 2020, 03:47:05 PM
Alex Caruso is 4th in All Star voting among West guards

heh
Title: Chandler Parsons
Post by: chipstern on January 20, 2020, 03:59:00 PM
Been hurting for most of his soon to expire 4-year contract. 

Banking 90-100 Million eases the pain...somewhat, professional athletes being competitors. 

Seemingly healthy and on the Atlanta Hawks, things looking up, when the brother gets taken out by a drunk driver, and suffers horrific injuries...never you mind career injuries...LIFE INJURIES: traumatic brain injury, disc herniation and a torn labrum. 

Man. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 20, 2020, 04:47:10 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 19, 2020, 12:39:49 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 19, 2020, 11:08:57 AM
Does anyone have scenarios where a trade to the Knicks makes sense for the Warriors?

GSW needs a bench for next year,
Knix could offer Portis, Knox, Elf = Tangelo
GS would have a quality backup PG in Elf (though one who can't make a 3).  A young athletic F in Knox.  And they could save money by declining Portis' $15M option.  If they like him, they could try to sign him for longer and less per season, like 3/$30M.

Would GS be willing to do that?  Could they get more?  Most teams are set at PG, though Tangelo is a combo G and could play with a PG.

More likely to get GS to bite would be to include one of Mitch/RJB!
Say, Mitch + Portis + Ellington = Tangelo
(we could take back Chriss or some other low contract guy to balance the players a bit).

I'm not a Tangelo fan.  But he plays hard and can score.  Would you be willing to include one of Mitch, Knox, RJB to get Tangelo is the Q?  that's probably what it takes to get a deal done.

Another option could be Morris + Elf + Bullock for Tangelo + Chriss.  I'd rather give them Ellington than Bullock, but GS doesn't have any contracts in the $5M range to send us.  Basically a Morris for Tangelo trade.  With Elf thrown in as a surplus PG GS could use.  This makes sense if NYK aren't likely to re-up Morris.
Plug Morris into the old Durant slot.  And gives them a guy who can defend quality F's.

There's 3 trades that work and might entice GS.  And I didn't even make an RJB move.  I have it:
Morris + Elf + Bullock - a starter and two useful backups
Mitch + Portis + Ellington - 3 useful bench guy
Knox + Elf + Portis - 3 bench guys

Elf would be a useful backup to Steph for them.
Morris would fill a nice gap, but need to be reupped

Thanks for putting this together, by the way.

Interesting...if a little depressing (seems even less likely than I imagined).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 20, 2020, 05:20:44 PM
Pretty sure GS is keeping Russell.  Teams surely missed the boat
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 20, 2020, 06:23:50 PM
8, 7 and 1 for Love

Ho hum
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 20, 2020, 07:21:34 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 20, 2020, 06:23:50 PM
8, 7 and 1 for Love

Ho hum

What?

Nothing to say about how we should have taken Garland instead of Barrett?

Hum Ho.
Title: tcob
Post by: Kam on January 20, 2020, 07:29:45 PM
We got to 12 wins.  Woo!
Title: Re: tcob
Post by: chipstern on January 20, 2020, 07:34:46 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 20, 2020, 07:29:45 PM
We got to 12 wins.  Woo!

Nothing positive to say about Frank's positive contributions, Sunshine?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 20, 2020, 08:38:21 PM
Nothing to say about how we should have taken Garland instead of Barrett?


Nope - all (which is not much) has been said.
Title: Re: tcob
Post by: Kam on January 20, 2020, 09:28:55 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 20, 2020, 07:34:46 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 20, 2020, 07:29:45 PM
We got to 12 wins.  Woo!

Nothing positive to say about Frank's positive contributions, Sunshine?

Get with the program and say something good or else!

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/0f/70/dc/0f70dc352eb345583193f60288fa8014.jpg)
Title: Frank
Post by: Kam on January 20, 2020, 09:31:25 PM
He and Payton both had a good defensive game against Clevelands backcourt.  Good game for our PGs.
Title: Re: Frank
Post by: chipstern on January 20, 2020, 09:57:51 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 20, 2020, 09:31:25 PM
He and Payton both had a good defensive game against Clevelands backcourt.  Good game for our PGs.

(https://www.caribbeanmuslims.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/muhd-777x437.jpeg)

Enes with 18 & 11 on 8-10 in Celtics blowout of Lakers.

Tatum 27 on 10-18, 5-7 from trey. 

Lakers now exhale, and come into the Garden Wednesday night looking to bludgeon our Knicks into Steak Tartare. 

Yikes. 

PS:  Andrew Wiggins?  15-6-1 on 6-17, 1-7 from trey in 30 minutes. 

PPS: Michael Porter?  20-14-4 on 7-12, 4-8 from trey in 28 minutes...in the interest of full disclosure, Knicks fans booed on draft night when the brain trust passed on Porter to take Knox at 9...Denver took Porter at 14 and gave him two summers and an entire NBA season to get healthy.  Doth give one pause, certainly...ME, in particular, as a Knox Booster.  Some wasabi would hit the spot with that plate of crow sashimi. 
Title: For Chico and the Kamster
Post by: carlos123 on January 20, 2020, 10:06:00 PM
STARTERS   MIN   FG      3PT   FT   OREB   DREB   REB   AST   STL   BLK   TO   PF   +/-   PTS
J. TatumPF   29   10-18   5-8   2-3   1         4          5         3     1   0   0    3        +32     27

BENCH      MIN    FG     3PT      FT   OREB   DREB   REB   AST   STL   BLK   TO   PF   +/-   PTS
E. KanterC   24   8-10   0-0     2-4      6          5       11     0       0        1    2     4  +11    18

That was with 5 min. left and neither playing anymore with the Cs up by 30
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 20, 2020, 10:50:25 PM
No Bron or no Davis?
Title: Re: Chico & the Kamster
Post by: carlos123 on January 20, 2020, 11:10:54 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 20, 2020, 10:50:25 PM
No Bron or no Davis?

Tatum and Enes held them to a +/- of -21 and -24 😳
Title: Re: Chico & the Kamster
Post by: chipstern on January 20, 2020, 11:28:54 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 20, 2020, 11:10:54 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 20, 2020, 10:50:25 PM
No Bron or no Davis?

Tatum and Enes held them to a +/- of -21 and -24 😳

Well, Kemba and Jaylen weren't too shabby. 

Also, Celtics 16-34 from trey. 

Lakers 7-26. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on January 21, 2020, 12:02:19 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 20, 2020, 10:50:25 PM
No Bron or no Davis?

No Lonzo.

heh

First game in about 2 weeks no MIAs for Celts and they all contributed. But as Carlos noted Kanter was huge against a bigger Laker team.
Title: Re: Chico & the Kamster
Post by: carlos123 on January 21, 2020, 01:39:39 AM
Quote from: chipstern on January 20, 2020, 11:28:54 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 20, 2020, 11:10:54 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 20, 2020, 10:50:25 PM
No Bron or no Davis?

Tatum and Enes held them to a +/- of -21 and -24 😳

Well, Kemba and Jaylen weren't too shabby. 

Also, Celtics 16-34 from trey. 

Lakers 7-26.

True.

I was just posting about the players relevant to Chico and Harpo.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 21, 2020, 04:34:30 AM
McDermott the other day scored 14 on 10 FG's (without any FT's).

I'm not sure Chandler Parsons injuries are as bad as they sound, since that info came from a lawsuit he's bringing against the driver, where his lawyer piled it on thick.  For instance "traumatic brain injury" sounds really bad, when I believe it was just referring to a concussion (not fun but something you get over within a week or so).  I do hope he's okay, but I think he got more banged up than handicapped.  It said the accident was at 2:PM.  Who's drunk at 2:PM?

The Cavs game sounds dull.  I don't think i'll even bother with a replay.  Good to see Dot got the ball through the hoop.  An underappreciated aspect of the game ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 21, 2020, 08:10:14 AM
Started to watch LA-Bos and it looked like it was going the other way

Barkley had it - said LeBron went to watch his son and didnt get his afternoon nap.

Credit the C's.  Credit Philly as well.  Looked like a L the whole way vs Brooklyn before a late surge.

Good division race
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 21, 2020, 08:16:47 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 21, 2020, 04:34:30 AM
McDermott the other day scored 14 on 10 FG's (without any FT's).

I'm not sure Chandler Parsons injuries are as bad as they sound, since that info came from a lawsuit he's bringing against the driver, where his lawyer piled it on thick.  For instance "traumatic brain injury" sounds really bad, when I believe it was just referring to a concussion (not fun but something you get over within a week or so).  I do hope he's okay, but I think he got more banged up than handicapped.  It said the accident was at 2:PM.  Who's drunk at 2:PM?



Yeah, then the reporter goes to Rick Carlisle making it sound like Parsons was near death.  Rick of course broke down a bit.  Crazy. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 21, 2020, 08:36:40 AM
DARIUS GARLAND had been on a nice run - 45/35/88 over 12 games (16-6-2-1).  Knicks give him his worst line (4-20, 1-6) since an 0-10 November 1st.  Nicely done.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 21, 2020, 08:45:42 AM
Nice win for Miami minus Butler

Crazy finish to regulation.  Tied with a few ticks left...Bjelica gets away with ablatant pushoff and scores, leaving MIA just 1.8 left.  Then Dragic lobs perfectly to Bam to tie it.

Bagley 15 and 15 (7-13).  14 and 8 for year in 25 minutes.  Double digits every time out.  Just second double double after 19 last season.

MIA led by Nunn/Dragic and James Johnson (9-11) - with Duncan Robinson contributing 4 more 3-pointers.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 21, 2020, 11:54:30 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 21, 2020, 08:16:47 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 21, 2020, 04:34:30 AM
McDermott the other day scored 14 on 10 FG's (without any FT's).

I'm not sure Chandler Parsons injuries are as bad as they sound, since that info came from a lawsuit he's bringing against the driver, where his lawyer piled it on thick.  For instance "traumatic brain injury" sounds really bad, when I believe it was just referring to a concussion (not fun but something you get over within a week or so).  I do hope he's okay, but I think he got more banged up than handicapped.  It said the accident was at 2:PM.  Who's drunk at 2:PM?



Yeah, then the reporter goes to Rick Carlisle making it sound like Parsons was near death.  Rick of course broke down a bit.  Crazy.

The effects of a severe concussion can last months to a year or more — that said, it sure does seem like some severe "crash inflation" is going on here, and as for its potentially career-ending effects, Parsons' career ended years ago.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 21, 2020, 04:24:38 PM
LaVar says he not only stands by his decisions to take LaMelo Ball out of high school in the United States (he went to Lithuania and Australia) … but says he’s convinced Melo will be the #1 overall pick in the 2020 NBA Draft. Ball says his dream would be for the NY Knicks to hire Mark Jackson as the next head coach — who would then take Melo with their first pick. In fact, Ball says he sees a world in which all 3 of his sons sign with the Knicks and play in Madison Square Garden. He thinks his fam can save the franchise. – via TMZ Staff @ TMZ.com


Well, well...


https://www.tmz.com/2020/01/21/tmz-roundtable-lavar-ball-master-p-metta-world-peace/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on January 21, 2020, 04:27:31 PM
How can we miss LaVar if he won't go away?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 21, 2020, 04:30:12 PM
Wow -

from the things I never knew category

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/charlotte-hornets/article239440933.html
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 21, 2020, 04:31:18 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on January 21, 2020, 04:27:31 PM
How can we miss LaVar if he won't go away?

Which is the pest?  You or him?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on January 21, 2020, 04:34:27 PM
He's my role model. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 21, 2020, 05:17:34 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 21, 2020, 04:31:18 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on January 21, 2020, 04:27:31 PM
How can we miss LaVar if he won't go away?

Which is the pest?  You or him?

At least around here, your primacy at pestilence distribution is not being challenged.
Title: Re: Chico
Post by: carlos123 on January 21, 2020, 06:39:49 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 21, 2020, 05:17:34 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 21, 2020, 04:31:18 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on January 21, 2020, 04:27:31 PM
How can we miss LaVar if he won't go away?

Which is the pest?  You or him?

At least around here, your primacy at pestilence distribution is not being challenged.

Good one Fac!
😁😅😂🤣
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 22, 2020, 03:04:35 AM
Quote
Dwight Powell suffered a season-ending torn right Achilles

Tough break for the Mavs.
Maxi Kleber will get an op to step up.
Can Justin Jax play.
He did fairly all right for DAL after a midseason trade.  But not much this year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 22, 2020, 03:57:21 AM
Yeah. Sucks for Powell. The Mavs should have grabbed Chriss when he was available, as the Knicks should have. Knowing the Mavs, they’ll pull someone out the G (glad we locked up Wooten when we did) or Lithuania or somewhere. Maybe they go Boban & KP up front.

It’s time bring a knife to a gunfight as the Lakers roll through.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 22, 2020, 04:49:24 AM
Portis and Ellington for Delon Wright & Courtney Lee.

Delon is the player here with implications past this year with a deal that never reaches 10 mil. He’s 27, plays D, hits his shots, is long, athletic, and has played his career behind really good guards on good teams with good coaches.

Mavs could really use Portis now. Brunson & young Scurry can run things When Luca gets rest. They’ll have an option on Bobby next year which they might even want to pick up.

The other side of this for us is buying out Lee & promoting Tony Wooten to fill Portis’ role. We haven’t had an available big we haven’t used in a game all year even though a number of guards always languish.

Post trade roster with Lee bought out and Wooten brought on

Taj Mitch
Randle Knox Wooten
Morris Dotson Iggy
Barrett Bullock Zo
Delon Payton Frank Smith

It would be nice to move Smith as well, but I don’t think Dallas is looking to bring him back.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 22, 2020, 07:44:12 AM
It's an idea.  But I don't think either team does it.

First off, DAL wasn't going far in the playoffs this year even if KZ and Powell had full health.  They were likely the 6th best West team.  And KZ is still getting his legs and shot together.

They have a deep team and very good coach.  So Next Man UP.  Kleber has been playing the same number of minutes and providing the same boards and scoring as Powell.  His D isn't as good as Powell's, but he can knock down 3's.  So boom Kleber steps in and they just need to back him up.  Give Maxi a few extra mins.  Go some smallball with Funky-Smith and Just Jax at PF.  It's not even much of small ball since Luca is a  6'7" 230 PG.
There other German, Broekhoff is due back from injury soon.  he's 29 and shoots 3's well.  No Powell, will give him an opp once he's back.

Scurry, Brunson, Delon, Barea.  Hell, they could dust off Courtly. Otherwise, more Boban is never a bad thing, in the right situations.  Some teams flat-out can't handle him.  A deep team.  No need to panic.  Or take on middling Knix.

Really, I think Kleber is a better player than Bobby "Mr. Consistent" Portis.  I wouldn't lose Delon's D for Portis' every 3rd game scoring. 

Knickwise, Delon would be another backup PG on our roster.  That'd make 4, all of whom can't make a 3.  Elf, Delon, Franc, Jr. Smith.  Where we going with that?

I don't think DAL has an emergency or Knix are trading for another backup PG. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 22, 2020, 09:03:07 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 22, 2020, 04:49:24 AM
Portis and Ellington for Delon Wright & Courtney Lee.

Delon is the player here with implications past this year with a deal that never reaches 10 mil. He’s 27, plays D, hits his shots, is long, athletic, and has played his career behind really good guards on good teams with good coaches.

Mavs could really use Portis now. Brunson & young Scurry can run things When Luca gets rest. They’ll have an option on Bobby next year which they might even want to pick up.

The other side of this for us is buying out Lee & promoting Tony Wooten to fill Portis’ role. We haven’t had an available big we haven’t used in a game all year even though a number of guards always languish.

Post trade roster with Lee bought out and Wooten brought on

Taj Mitch
Randle Knox Wooten
Morris Dotson Iggy
Barrett Bullock Zo
Delon Payton Frank Smith

It would be nice to move Smith as well, but I don’t think Dallas is looking to bring him back.

I'd be looking to send them Morris.  Portis doesnt do what Powell does
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 22, 2020, 09:04:23 AM
Neither does Kleber

Dallas WILL make a move.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 22, 2020, 09:36:55 AM
I don't think DAL has an emergency or Knix are trading for another backup PG.


I think you need a second look at Wright.  Nice player - and plays three positions.  Would they give him up, even for Morris?  Don't know

In dealing Morris to Dallas, Knicks would need to decide whether they want DeLon's 9 mil against next year's cap or if they prefer Lee's ending deal.

Finney-Smith at 4 mil moving forward is another guy to consider.  Other younger guys (Roby for instance) are filler.

Worth a look if it's Morris - or even GIBSON as main guy going (Gibson, Dotson for Lee, Roby and a second round pick - something like that)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 22, 2020, 09:56:23 AM
Delon's done well for them.  Fills a role.  Often finishes games.  Still can't shoot and gets 20 mins a night. 
You project Delon as a starter?
I see him now as akin to Elf.
Basically he's Franc at age 27.

Delon is more valuable to DAL than us.
They don't have another G defender.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 22, 2020, 10:08:38 AM
Nah.... not likely a starter for us in '20-'21, especially not if we draft LaMelo or another deserving 1-3.

I said we have to decide what his 9 mil looks like on our cap.

But could he start?  This year, with Morris going in the deal?  Or next year, at PG if we fail to add one?  Sure.

Do you want Wright's 9 mil or Payton's 8 running your team - say if we draft a big in round 1?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 22, 2020, 01:37:08 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 22, 2020, 10:08:38 AM
Do you want Wright's 9 mil or Payton's 8 running your team - say if we draft a big in round 1?

Neither, that's the issue.

If not planning to retain MaMo, need to flip him for more.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 22, 2020, 01:39:14 PM
Neither, that's the issue.


Thats why I asked what the 9 mil looked like on our cap.

I agree with you only if we add a key player at pg.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 22, 2020, 01:43:18 PM
If Knicks did value Wright t 9, Finney-Smith at 4, Roby.......

I'd be ok with it.

Hearing LA for Morris, so we should be looking at those 2 rosters.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 22, 2020, 01:44:58 PM
I do think Morris gets Randle money if he returns

Or a year less and 20+ per

I can see management criticized IF we sign him and IF we do not.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 22, 2020, 03:08:02 PM
I don't think too many will be unhappy to sign Morris. 

Do the Knicks even have to wait until the offseason -- if they plan to keep Morris long-term couldn't they hammer out a deal at anytime??  Or do we have to wait until July just like every other team?   

Anyone know the rule?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 22, 2020, 03:48:55 PM
If DAL wanted MaMo, they could just go after him this Summer and not lose any pieces.  Looks like they'd have the cap space.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 22, 2020, 06:09:31 PM
I dont think folks would agree with you that Mavs have no shot to make noise this year if they add pieces.

Even making a conference Finals is an accomplishment.  Adding Morris for Lee...... then beating Utah and the Clippers - is not so far fetched.  Adding Gibson as well... beautiful.

Finney and Wright back to second unit, with Brunson, Boban....

Luka, THJ, MM, KP, Taj to start

Title: Damn
Post by: carlos123 on January 22, 2020, 08:38:14 PM
I was hoping we could win the first half. Didn’t like the last possession at all, with Randle playing hero-ball.
Title: Defense has improved this week
Post by: Kam on January 22, 2020, 08:47:20 PM
Since the Suns game we've turned in 5 halves of BBALL holding the opponent to 52 pts or less.
Title: Re: Damn
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 22, 2020, 08:49:13 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 22, 2020, 08:38:14 PM
I was hoping we could win the first half. Didn’t like the last possession at all, with Randle playing hero-ball.

Perfectly played.  Just missed the layup.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 22, 2020, 09:13:57 PM
Stop shooting, Frank.
Title: Re: Damn
Post by: carlos123 on January 22, 2020, 10:29:45 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 22, 2020, 08:49:13 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 22, 2020, 08:38:14 PM
I was hoping we could win the first half. Didn’t like the last possession at all, with Randle playing hero-ball.

Perfectly played.  Just missed the layup.

Missed the layup against 3 Lakers who were waiting for it.
Title: Marcus Morris
Post by: carlos123 on January 22, 2020, 10:32:16 PM
Marcus is a keeper. Just stop trading him for a bag of rotten beans.

Coach is a keeper too!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on January 22, 2020, 11:22:31 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 22, 2020, 09:13:57 PM
Stop shooting, Frank.

Shooters gotta shoot.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 23, 2020, 12:26:38 AM
Good to see Dot go off some.  I noted he shot well last game.  Maybe get him on track.  Knix need to get contributions from one of Dot/Trier.  And I prefer Dot, since Trier is pretty chumpy on D.

To give Portis some credit, he's has a number of games the past month or two where he gets a good deal of assists.  Sometimes he does some nice ball movement, and that really helps on a team like the Knix with iffy PG's.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 23, 2020, 12:29:57 AM
Better to have Frank miss eight or a dozen shots then have DSJ miss even more defensive assignments in even less time.

Mavs reportedly are looking at Noah.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 23, 2020, 12:39:50 AM
DAL could try to make noise these playoffs by going all-in on Morris, sure.  But you have an inexperienced group, plus KZ's health status up in the air.  And there are a lot of good West teams this year.  MaMo would certainly get them solidly in that 2nd tier with DEN and UTA.  Two very good teams with flaws.  (bench and Conley's health for UTA; no go to guy and no wing stopper for DEN).  But being 4th best West team wouldn't amount to much.  If they thought they could get to the West Finals, then it's worth it.  But that's a lot to ask.

Bobby Portal doesn't move the playoff needle.  MaMo could.

Would make much more sense to me, for DAL to go to war as is and call it a successful season.  Then add a FA, such as Morris, this summer without losing any of their depth.  A 2-way vet addition like Morris would make a lot of sense for DAL.  With the caveat that he's not going to replicate this contract/career year next season.  But he'd also be 3rd option, which would be a great  role for him.  2nd option on nights when KZ is hobbled or more focused on D.  And Tim Jr. would benefit from more open looks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 23, 2020, 12:45:08 AM
I like Frank's (fairly new) aggression. And those were good shots he was taking.

It's just — and I know this is nothing new to say — but his shooting stinks.

His form looks good. He seems to work hard. I've got no idea why the ball isn't going in.

And the bigger the shot, the more likely the miss.

Is that a fixable thing if you're 20?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 23, 2020, 12:51:50 AM
I have no idea why MIN would trade Covington, but Covington rumors are rife.  If they're sticking with Wiggy and willing to move Cov, Knix should be interested.  A big deal involving Randle/Morris?  Something smaller with Portis and Elf/Franc?  Covington is a terrific 3&D wing, criminally underused in MIN.  A real stopper and popper. 

Probably a Morris-Covington swap would be most logical. 
(with toss-ins to make the #'s work)
Title: There you go again
Post by: carlos123 on January 23, 2020, 12:52:29 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 23, 2020, 12:39:50 AM
DAL could try to make noise these playoffs by going all-in on Morris, sure.  But you have an inexperienced group, plus KZ's health status up in the air.  And there are a lot of good West teams this year.  MaMo would certainly get them solidly in that 2nd tier with DEN and UTA.  Two very good teams with flaws.  (bench and Conley's health for UTA; no go to guy and no wing stopper for DEN).  But being 4th best West team wouldn't amount to much.  If they thought they could get to the West Finals, then it's worth it.  But that's a lot to ask.

Bobby Portal doesn't move the playoff needle.  MaMo could.

Would make much more sense to me, for DAL to go to war as is and call it a successful season.  Then add a FA, such as Morris, this summer without losing any of their depth.  A 2-way vet addition like Morris would make a lot of sense for DAL.  With the caveat that he's not going to replicate this contract/career year next season.  But he'd also be 3rd option, which would be a great  role for him.  2nd option nights when KX is hobbled or focused on D.  And Tim Jr. would benefit from more open looks.

And what would Dallas give us for Marcus?

Oh, wait, actually nothing. Just wait and get him as a FA. Great! We found a very good player who actually wants to stay here, so we just let him go for NADA.

Some times I’m just grateful perrymills are our FO instead of some of you people.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 23, 2020, 12:55:19 AM
Quote from: elephant on January 23, 2020, 12:45:08 AM
Is that a fixable thing if you're 20?

Sure. 
Confidence.  Repetition.  Coaching.  More repetition.
Game situations.  Focus.  Repetition.  Experience. 
Did I mention repetition?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on January 23, 2020, 07:44:02 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 23, 2020, 12:55:19 AM
Quote from: elephant on January 23, 2020, 12:45:08 AM
Is that a fixable thing if you're 20?

Sure. 
Confidence.  Repetition.  Coaching.  More repetition.
Game situations.  Focus.  Repetition.  Experience. 
Did I mention repetition?

You're repeating yourself.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 23, 2020, 07:49:44 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 23, 2020, 12:29:57 AM
Better to have Frank miss eight or a dozen shots then have DSJ miss even more defensive assignments in even less time.

I know the kid hasn't played in weeks, so I'm not knocking him for last night, but it is remarkable the number of times DSJ has checked in this season to create an instant 10 point swing in the wrong direction, usually in less time than it takes for Zion to knock down four three-pointers.

Quote from: Kam on January 18, 2020, 11:04:25 PM
We lost by 3


Payton was a +13
Frank a -16


Draw your own conclusions

In fact, according to the irrefutable logic of this forum's most beloved keep-chained-up-in-the-woodshed imbecile, DSJ clearly lost us the game.

We lost by 8


Frank was a +5
DSJ was a -9


Draw your own conclusions. Numbers don't lie. LMAO.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 23, 2020, 08:17:40 AM
MaMo says he wants to remain a Knick.  And for the right price he probably does.  But let's see what he chooses when he has comparable offers from much better teams -- such as DAL, PHI, etc.  Is he really going to be enamored of a dysfunctional 23 W team without a legit PG, a rook coach, tons of erratic yute, etc.?

I don't know why he blew off his commitment to SA and came to the Knix.  I assume money and close to home.  This is going to be his last significant contract.  Deep into his 30's.  He's going to be looking for a guaranteed 4 years.  At least 3.  And if wants to stay close to home, there's also PHI, BKY, WAS. 

Trading him before the deadline gets a return on him.  Going to FA is a risk.  Leaving for NADA is MaMo's decision. 

Why trade Morris?
1) He's our best trade asset
2) MaMo and Randle have similar, non-complementary games
3) he might sign with a good team in FA leaving us with NADA
4) he's aging and not on our young timeline
5) he could bring back a yute and pick or something useful
6) the title is up for grabs this year so top playoff teams know one player could push them a round or two further and maybe to the title

Why Knix should keep him?
1) he's our best player
2) can decide the MaMo/Randle thing later after both are under contract.  ie keep both, or trade one or the other
3) even if he walks, his cap space could be valuable
4) vet leadership
5) we're kinda awash in yute and picks and middling young guys that need development
Title: Re: Damn
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 23, 2020, 08:26:59 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 22, 2020, 10:29:45 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 22, 2020, 08:49:13 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 22, 2020, 08:38:14 PM
I was hoping we could win the first half. Didn’t like the last possession at all, with Randle playing hero-ball.

Perfectly played.  Just missed the layup.

Missed the layup against 3 Lakers who were waiting for it.

Drive and dish for Payton would have been better.  You're right.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 23, 2020, 08:43:22 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on January 23, 2020, 07:49:44 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 23, 2020, 12:29:57 AM
Better to have Frank miss eight or a dozen shots then have DSJ miss even more defensive assignments in even less time.

I know the kid hasn't played in weeks, so I'm not knocking him for last night, but it is remarkable the number of times DSJ has checked in this season to create an instant 10 point swing in the wrong direction, usually in less time than it takes for Zion to knock down four three-pointers.

Quote from: Kam on January 18, 2020, 11:04:25 PM
We lost by 3


Payton was a +13
Frank a -16


Draw your own conclusions

In fact, according to the irrefutable logic of this forum's most beloved keep-chained-up-in-the-woodshed imbecile, DSJ clearly lost us the game.

We lost by 8


Frank was a +5
DSJ was a -9


Draw your own conclusions. Numbers don't lie. LMAO.

Good post

I dont think Dennis plays last night had Frank not been clanking. 

From the get go I have said Dennis is not a guy you can ask to play short minutes.  That is one thing Frank does well - keeps his face no matter the circumstance
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 23, 2020, 08:51:31 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 23, 2020, 12:39:50 AM
DAL could try to make noise these playoffs by going all-in on Morris, sure.  But you have an inexperienced group, plus KZ's health status up in the air.  And there are a lot of good West teams this year.  MaMo would certainly get them solidly in that 2nd tier with DEN and UTA.  Two very good teams with flaws.  (bench and Conley's health for UTA; no go to guy and no wing stopper for DEN).  But being 4th best West team wouldn't amount to much.  If they thought they could get to the West Finals, then it's worth it.  But that's a lot to ask.

Bobby Portal doesn't move the playoff needle.  MaMo could.

Would make much more sense to me, for DAL to go to war as is and call it a successful season.  Then add a FA, such as Morris, this summer without losing any of their depth.  A 2-way vet addition like Morris would make a lot of sense for DAL.  With the caveat that he's not going to replicate this contract/career year next season.  But he'd also be 3rd option, which would be a great  role for him.  2nd option on nights when KZ is hobbled or more focused on D.  And Tim Jr. would benefit from more open looks.

Right on.

And I guess Dallas doesnt have any more number ones to offer us.  If they did they would at least try to ply Marcus for Lee/Roby/picks, something that wouldnt kill their depth much for the future

Anyway - lets make a Morris list.

For #1 -  I will use a second rounder.

Dallas -
Lee, Roby and a 2
Knicks - Morris

next offer (LA teams make most sense)?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 23, 2020, 09:29:37 AM
Better to have Frank miss eight or a dozen shots then have DSJ miss even more defensive assignments in even less time.


That's fair
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 23, 2020, 09:31:33 AM
I don't have deals for you right now, but rather destinations.
Of the playoff teams out West -- UTA, DEN, DAL could all really use Morris.  He'd fill gaps for all those teams.  Then there's HOU and LA x 2 that could use him as well. 
Other West teams: POR certainly can; OKC probably; GSW.  SAS!
(Spurs would be in good shape if they had MaMo playing at this level)

East playoff teams: PHI, IND & BKY have gaps Morris could fill.
MIA needs more legit starters.

That's 10 playoff teams that could use Morris.
Not all have trade assets, but it shouldn't be too hard to find a taker.  Knix would be negligent not to be listening to offers.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 23, 2020, 10:00:48 AM
Morris is most certainly being discussed by Knicks management -

EASIER to keep if we dont deal him.  That is the current conundrum - and to be weighed when tying in just who/what is offered to us.

Knicks likely seek a #1 with no greater than top 10 protection.  Any player added - how does he project with the talent coming back - especially when we dont even have a coach?
Title: Wait what?
Post by: Kam on January 23, 2020, 10:35:19 AM
Frank went 0-8 in 12 minutes.  He had 1 assist.

And Dennis was worse.


The Frank homers needing to get on DSJ   -- who nobody here is defending hope you love fighting straw men -- to make a point about Frank just shows how far standards have fallen in the Mecca.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 23, 2020, 10:42:44 AM
I see the PG position like this for next year, Kam

Starter - add a player
Backup - Ntlikina, if he isnt dealt
Third man - possibly Allen

Dennis Smith is GONE one way or another.
Only way this isnt true is if we deal Payton now and give Dennis the keys - or at least the minutes to try to outplay FN last 25-30 games.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 23, 2020, 11:31:57 AM
Why not give Payton the keys?  Allen as primary backup.  Frank can be your defensive guy off the bench to slow down the opponent's best perimeter threat.   Dennis has no trade value.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 23, 2020, 02:46:55 PM
LeBJ two games away from 3rd place all-time scoring.  And when he retires he'll probably be 3rd in assists as well.  With a possibility of getting to 2nd all-time in both those categories. If he stays healthy.

When you look at numbers and longevity and getting to the playoffs, LeBron might be the greatest regular season player ever.
The main flaw in his career is those lost finals.

He's gotta be Top 5 all-time player, probably Top 3, maybe higher ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on January 23, 2020, 02:54:15 PM
I've got him tied (wishy-washy Yankguy) for first.  The Finals thing is tough, but I also believe he only lost one with Finals with a better team and he won at least two (maybe all 3) with the lesser team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 23, 2020, 05:14:46 PM
Franc played with nice aggression.  Even tried to dunk on LeBJ.  Held his pivot foot another time and just missed a short flip.  Another time bumped KCP and then misfired.  His jumper looks like he's not confident.  But Franc had energy.  Twice he guarded LeBJ credibly.  Once stopping him but then LeBJ pivoted around and made a nice flip.

Not sure why but Knix got 2 O-boards and nearly two more on Franc's first 5 misses.  So those misses weren't very harmful.
Franc had a nice oop assist to Robinson.  A hockey assist on a good pass to a cutting Portis that Mitch dunked.  And should have had another assist, but Mitch blew the dunk, which has been a recent trend.  Probably leading the league in missed dunks.

Portis took some terrible shots 1st half.  Sometimes he's just launching a shot no matter what.  Also had some defensive cluelessness. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 23, 2020, 05:18:44 PM
No Frank's misses really aren't harmful.  He's a great kid too.   


On another note, all the yoga we must all be doing to have our backs be able to bend this way is crazy, huh?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 23, 2020, 09:36:42 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 23, 2020, 11:31:57 AM
Why not give Payton the keys?  Allen as primary backup.  Frank can be your defensive guy off the bench to slow down the opponent's best perimeter threat.   Dennis has no trade value.

Payton HAS the fucking keys

Everything I said stands even with that
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 23, 2020, 09:38:17 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 23, 2020, 09:36:42 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 23, 2020, 11:31:57 AM
Why not give Payton the keys?  Allen as primary backup.  Frank can be your defensive guy off the bench to slow down the opponent's best perimeter threat.   Dennis has no trade value.

Payton HAS the fucking keys

Everything I said stands even with that


SO why would we deviate from that?  If payton was healthy all season we would have 16-20 wins.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 23, 2020, 09:48:18 PM
I almost forgot.  I already have Frank converted to small forward with a chance to start
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 23, 2020, 09:51:47 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 23, 2020, 09:38:17 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 23, 2020, 09:36:42 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 23, 2020, 11:31:57 AM
Why not give Payton the keys?  Allen as primary backup.  Frank can be your defensive guy off the bench to slow down the opponent's best perimeter threat.   Dennis has no trade value.

Payton HAS the fucking keys

Everything I said stands even with that


SO why would we deviate from that?  If payton was healthy all season we would have 16-20 wins.

That's fair.  Just not sure Elf gets 8 mil from us over the summer
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 23, 2020, 09:52:35 PM
Especially with all the 1/2 players in the draft
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 23, 2020, 10:07:14 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 23, 2020, 09:52:35 PM
Especially with all the 1/2 players in the draft

No young player (unless we get extremely lucky in the draft like Utah and Dallas have recently) can just come in and take over at PG.  We need a steady veteran to guide the way and i think Elfrid is the blueprint for young vet than knows the league.  DSJ and Frank are still trying to figure things out but Elf knows what he is, knows his game, stays within his game, and gives us a credible chance in most games.  He is the most consistent.  Frank is the next most consistent.  But Allen is an intriguing replacement.  DSJ is an enigma that won't be solved here.
Title: Dallas
Post by: carlos123 on January 24, 2020, 12:29:54 AM
Dallas didn’t get lucky with Luca. They just knew what they were doing. Doncic had been winning everything for Real Madrid for the last 3 years before he entered the draft, as I posted here repeatedly, though we didn’t have a shot at him, and Knicks probably didn’t know it anyway.

Atlanta really messed up 😳
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 24, 2020, 12:41:29 AM
Mavs bench 18-32

Simons struggling
Title: Re: Dallas
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 24, 2020, 12:42:53 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 24, 2020, 12:29:54 AM
Dallas didn’t get lucky with Luca. They just knew what they were doing. Doncic had been winning everything for Real Madrid for the last 3 years before he entered the draft, as I posted here repeatedly, though we didn’t have a shot at him, and Knicks probably didn’t know it anyway.

Atlanta really messed up 😳

Folks were afraid to pub the white guy as #1 overall.

Not sure ATL was as good a fit for Doncic
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 24, 2020, 12:51:24 AM
Dame wanted 50.
Title: Re: Dallas
Post by: carlos123 on January 24, 2020, 01:45:38 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 24, 2020, 12:42:53 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 24, 2020, 12:29:54 AM
Dallas didn’t get lucky with Luca. They just knew what they were doing. Doncic had been winning everything for Real Madrid for the last 3 years before he entered the draft, as I posted here repeatedly, though we didn’t have a shot at him, and Knicks probably didn’t know it anyway.

Atlanta really messed up 😳

Folks were afraid to pub the white guy as #1 overall.

Not sure ATL was as good a fit for Doncic

I think you’re the only one around here who thinks about basketball in racial terms.

Luca is a good fit on ANY team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 24, 2020, 02:36:08 AM
Quote from: Kam on January 23, 2020, 05:18:44 PM
No Frank's misses really aren't harmful.  He's a great kid too.   
On another note, all the yoga we must all be doing to have our backs be able to bend this way is crazy, huh?

You have to look at possessions.  In the Lake game, Franc went 0-8, but of his first 5 misses (I only saw/recall 6 of his FG's -- didn't see the 4Q), Knix got the 0-board twice and twice more tipped the ball once or twice and almost resumed possession.

Sometimes a missed shot is like a pass, if you draw a double team, miss a short shot and the unguarded teammate cleans it right up.  That would be a quality miss, a quality possession.  I believe somebody called those Kobe Assists. 

The opposite of that is when you take a terrible shot that leads to your opponents getting an easy fast break bucket.  Like say, Randle launching a contested 3 with LeBJ tattooed on him, the straight-on 3 clanking the backboard first then the rim then landing in Brow's hands and shortly thereafter LBJ's for an easy dunk, as he leaked out immediately after the contest, knowing it was a shit shot.

Unless I have an easy open shot, I'm always cognizant of whether there's a teammate underneath who can rebound.  And some games even when I'm missing 3's, I'll keep shooting them if my guys are getting the rebound (and especially if boarding and scoring).  It's the possessions that matter.

4 of Franc's first 5 misses were almost continued Knick possessions, two were.  It's not like Franc super-compromised the D, but we have good rebounders and guys were down low in position to fight for the carom.  So those turned out to be pretty good possessions despite the Franc misses.  Hell, maybe the Lakes Bigs just weren't expecting Franc to shoot so much.  But we had chances to get a 2nd shot, which is good.

I should add all 5 of those were reasonable shots that didn't go in.
If I'm Frankity-Franc and I miss 5 in a row, but the Knix keep two of those possessions alive, and almost corral two more misses, I'm feeling fine about those possessions and willing to shoot more.  It's a team game.  And if you're teammates can clean up your misses, those are solid possessions.

I didn't go back and analyze the Franc misses to see why we were contesting those rebounds so well.  But we were, and it's possessions that count not shooting % or who's putting the ball int he basket (or how) .  I found Julius' 0-4 on 3's more troubling than Franc's 0-8 FG, because of the context and use of possession.  Lakes did a good job of bottling up Julius, leading to turnovers and a number of last-second passes after he went up in the air or made a spin move to nowhere.

Jr. Smith came in and lost his man on his first defensive assignment, then after a few passes got to his guy and got blown past.  Yikes.  Two different defensive miscues on his very first play.

We need to trade for Alex Caruso, so we can run Robinson-Caruso PnR's ...

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 24, 2020, 03:15:04 AM
The Lakers will never give up their “real” all-star.

I don’t know about the rest of you, but I’m ready to see how Tony Wooten fares in an NBA game.
Title: Re: Dallas
Post by: Yankguy1 on January 24, 2020, 08:26:58 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 24, 2020, 12:42:53 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 24, 2020, 12:29:54 AM
Dallas didn’t get lucky with Luca. They just knew what they were doing. Doncic had been winning everything for Real Madrid for the last 3 years before he entered the draft, as I posted here repeatedly, though we didn’t have a shot at him, and Knicks probably didn’t know it anyway.

Atlanta really messed up 😳

Folks were afraid to pub the white guy as #1 overall.

Not sure ATL was as good a fit for Doncic
Which "folks"? I want names!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 24, 2020, 09:12:44 AM
Ah, you know how it always goes, darkies keeping the white man down.  Same ol', same ol'.

I think the glamour has long gone off the #1 overall pick, with so many busts and mediocrities getting tabbed.

There were genuine concerns about how Doncic's game would translate to the NBA.  Not to mention his conditioning and the vast amount of slop in his repertoire.  Even while taking the NBofA by storm, he could still use to tighten up his game and get rid of some of the over-razzle.

Ayton of course is a physical specimen and could become a beast on both ends.  A redraft I assume would have Luka first, but most teams would love to Ayton.

I declared Mo Bamba the most likely Top 10 bust of that draft and so far that's holding.  I thanked ORL at the time for pushing a player down into our range.  The jury is still out on Knox and the Twin Bridges, but Shai Guy is the one we let get away. 

Title: Re: Dallas
Post by: Kam on January 24, 2020, 10:54:52 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 24, 2020, 12:29:54 AM
Dallas didn’t get lucky with Luca. They just knew what they were doing. Doncic had been winning everything for Real Madrid for the last 3 years before he entered the draft, as I posted here repeatedly, though we didn’t have a shot at him, and Knicks probably didn’t know it anyway.

Atlanta really messed up 😳

Hmmm no Sacramento with Vlade and Phoenix with Kokoskov were in position to draft Luka and knew him well.

Dallas got lucky they didn't take him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 24, 2020, 10:58:53 AM
As bo only credits Frank for his good misses i feel compelled to point out that Frank didn't get his own rebound.   So Frank is also a great teammate.  Helping his teammates pad their O-board stats.   So stop criticizing Frank!  He's making those around him better ...  rebounders!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 24, 2020, 01:49:45 PM
I try to be objective on Franc.  When he's bad, like the recent PHI game, I noted that.  And I keep pointing out his weak telegraphed passes, his penchant for giving up the ball 30+ feet out, and that he has a lot to work on.  His defense is sometimes oversold, but he has a knack for D and gives good effort.  So you can see the outlines of a very good defender.

He was aggressive v. LAL and his misses weren't as harmful as 0-8 suggests, that's all.  Not a good game, but not a disaster either.

Franc's our pup, and I hope we keep at least one of Franc/Knox long term and get to see them develop.  I'd prefer both.  But I wouldn't object to either being included in a trade.

As for Jr. Smith, I don't even have an opinion,  I've hardly seen him play, and when I have he's mostly been devoid of mojo.  A real enigma.  He has little trade value, so we might as well see if we can't fix him.  We're still paying Fizz, so send him to Fizz's house and see what transpires.  (really, I'd send him to the Gatorade Circuit).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 24, 2020, 02:03:10 PM
When we took Tim Jr. #24, the next pick was Reg Bullox. 
two slots after him was Rudy GoBear.

I was on the fence about Trae Young making the all-star team, but definitely feel he's not worthy of starting.  He's terrible on D.  His vaunted 3's go in at a slightly below average 34.5%.  Tons of turnovers.  Yeah, he's exciting, and he has range and passing vision.   He'll improve.  But he's not a starting all-star this year (except he is).

Zach Lowe has some thoughts on the Knix (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/28516139/ten-nba-things-like-including-spurs-new-threat).  Which makes me think he doesn't see the Knix much.  He only looks at NYK Bigs and somehow concludes Randle should play C some, despite tossing out stats showing Randle is a poor interior defender. 

He also thinks Mitch should start at C, seemingly unaware that Mitch is back to foulathon basketball and is having trouble making dunks these days.  Teams have sort of figured out Mitch and he needs to make the next adjustment.  Taj has settled into a nice groove, and only play 15 mins +/- 5 depending on Mitch's play.
He also notes that Mitch/Randle pairing has been poor, but that's what you get if Mitch starts.  As is, they are largely staggered.

Quote
As one of the original squatters on Julius Randle Hill, I must note that Randle should spend the second half of the season reorienting his game toward winning -- instead of chasing iso-tastic buckets and ramming into walls of defenders.

He has to pass more, and earlier, and prove he can defend one frontcourt position. He might have a better chance at center, despite size issues. He has shown the ability to switch and provide some rim protection when he really tries.

His lack of feel can be exposed more when he's guarding stretch power forwards

Not a big endorsement to want him to defend C's merely because he's bad at defending PF's.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 24, 2020, 03:34:51 PM
Randle quibblers

I would like for you to post when you see him make an excellent offensive play

It's interesting that for a team that has long lacked guys getting to the basket now criticizes Randle for it.  While often lauding Barrett for the same.
Title: We are best when we play
Post by: Kam on January 24, 2020, 03:46:23 PM
Portis at C
Randle at PF
Morris at SF

with Barrett and Payton

Any other lineup you trot out will be worse offensively.
Maybe better defensive lineups out there, but if you want to score you play Portis and reap the rewards of spacing.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 24, 2020, 04:06:11 PM
Hell, I even posted last week when Randle made a couple of good 4Q defensive plays.

Ain't quibbles, Randle has flaws.
Turnovers, one-positionality, poor defense, his 3's are clanky.
He also doesn't seem to exude leadership, etc.  And there is also the question of pairing with Mitch.

Julius is a throwback.  A bullish scoring PF.  But with limited versatility. He's not multi-positional, not switchable, doesn't protect the rim, isn't stretching the floor.  Therefore not the easiest guy to build around. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 24, 2020, 04:09:59 PM
Monk lighting up Paris
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 24, 2020, 05:41:21 PM
All the great Kentucky talent of late.  And we get Knox

Heh.
Title: GS trades WCS
Post by: Kam on January 24, 2020, 06:35:03 PM
Speaking of Ex-Kentucky wildcats, William C. Stein has been traded to the Mavs
Title: Re: We are best when we play
Post by: FWK00 on January 24, 2020, 07:34:24 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 24, 2020, 03:46:23 PM
Portis at C
Randle at PF
Morris at SF

with Barrett and Payton

Any other lineup you trot out will be worse offensively.
Maybe better defensive lineups out there, but if you want to score you play Portis and reap the rewards of spacing.

https://twitter.com/dwsmall8/status/1220782160367497217 (https://twitter.com/dwsmall8/status/1220782160367497217)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on January 24, 2020, 07:37:25 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 24, 2020, 02:36:08 AM
Quote from: Kam on January 23, 2020, 05:18:44 PM
No Frank's misses really aren't harmful.  He's a great kid too.   
On another note, all the yoga we must all be doing to have our backs be able to bend this way is crazy, huh?

You have to look at possessions.  In the Lake game, Franc went 0-8, but of his first 5 misses (I only saw/recall 6 of his FG's -- didn't see the 4Q), Knix got the 0-board twice and twice more tipped the ball once or twice and almost resumed possession.

Sometimes a missed shot is like a pass, if you draw a double team, miss a short shot and the unguarded teammate cleans it right up.  That would be a quality miss, a quality possession.  I believe somebody called those Kobe Assists. 

The opposite of that is when you take a terrible shot that leads to your opponents getting an easy fast break bucket.  Like say, Randle launching a contested 3 with LeBJ tattooed on him, the straight-on 3 clanking the backboard first then the rim then landing in Brow's hands and shortly thereafter LBJ's for an easy dunk, as he leaked out immediately after the contest, knowing it was a shit shot.

Unless I have an easy open shot, I'm always cognizant of whether there's a teammate underneath who can rebound.  And some games even when I'm missing 3's, I'll keep shooting them if my guys are getting the rebound (and especially if boarding and scoring).  It's the possessions that matter.

4 of Franc's first 5 misses were almost continued Knick possessions, two were.  It's not like Franc super-compromised the D, but we have good rebounders and guys were down low in position to fight for the carom.  So those turned out to be pretty good possessions despite the Franc misses.  Hell, maybe the Lakes Bigs just weren't expecting Franc to shoot so much.  But we had chances to get a 2nd shot, which is good.

I should add all 5 of those were reasonable shots that didn't go in.
If I'm Frankity-Franc and I miss 5 in a row, but the Knix keep two of those possessions alive, and almost corral two more misses, I'm feeling fine about those possessions and willing to shoot more.  It's a team game.  And if you're teammates can clean up your misses, those are solid possessions.

I didn't go back and analyze the Franc misses to see why we were contesting those rebounds so well.  But we were, and it's possessions that count not shooting % or who's putting the ball int he basket (or how) .  I found Julius' 0-4 on 3's more troubling than Franc's 0-8 FG, because of the context and use of possession.  Lakes did a good job of bottling up Julius, leading to turnovers and a number of last-second passes after he went up in the air or made a spin move to nowhere.

Jr. Smith came in and lost his man on his first defensive assignment, then after a few passes got to his guy and got blown past.  Yikes.  Two different defensive miscues on his very first play.

We need to trade for Alex Caruso, so we can run Robinson-Caruso PnR's ...

Great observations.  Small sample size and 0-8 is never a good thing but small consolation none the less.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 24, 2020, 07:58:47 PM
Very pleasing start...one of the best of the season. Give it up to Julius for two big early blocks.

*and impressively, the second unit holding onto the lead so far despite spectacular stinkiness from Knox...
Title: Re: We are best when we play
Post by: Kam on January 24, 2020, 09:36:16 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on January 24, 2020, 07:34:24 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 24, 2020, 03:46:23 PM
Portis at C
Randle at PF
Morris at SF

with Barrett and Payton

Any other lineup you trot out will be worse offensively.
Maybe better defensive lineups out there, but if you want to score you play Portis and reap the rewards of spacing.

https://twitter.com/dwsmall8/status/1220782160367497217 (https://twitter.com/dwsmall8/status/1220782160367497217)

I'm not trying to be a smartass but what is a 3man line-up?   It's 5 on 5.
Title: Re: We are best when we play
Post by: FWK00 on January 24, 2020, 11:31:59 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 24, 2020, 09:36:16 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on January 24, 2020, 07:34:24 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 24, 2020, 03:46:23 PM
Portis at C
Randle at PF
Morris at SF

with Barrett and Payton

Any other lineup you trot out will be worse offensively.
Maybe better defensive lineups out there, but if you want to score you play Portis and reap the rewards of spacing.

https://twitter.com/dwsmall8/status/1220782160367497217 (https://twitter.com/dwsmall8/status/1220782160367497217)

I'm not trying to be a smartass but what is a 3man line-up?   It's 5 on 5.

It's not a three man lineup, its the players who are the common denominator regardless of the players in the other two positions.  The fact that these three keep showing up is an interesting metric that indicates chemistry rather than empty personal statistics.

I'm not even trying to rattle your arguments - simply trying to provide material as to why some of us feel so strongly about Frankie and Dotson.  MR is a no-brainer.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 24, 2020, 11:34:55 PM
Julius is a throwback.  A bullish scoring PF.  But with limited versatility. He's not multi-positional, not switchable, doesn't protect the rim, isn't stretching the floor.


Too many words
Title: Re: GS trades WCS
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 24, 2020, 11:36:20 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 24, 2020, 06:35:03 PM
Speaking of Ex-Kentucky wildcats, William C. Stein has been traded to the Mavs

I loved him in Bad News Bears
Title: Re: GS trades WCS
Post by: bodiddley on January 25, 2020, 02:59:36 AM
Quote from: Kam on January 24, 2020, 06:35:03 PM
Speaking of Ex-Kentucky wildcats, William C. Stein has been traded to the Mavs

Geez, only cost them a late 2nd rounder (Utah's).  Picks below 45 are pretty marginal.
WCS is Big, 26, making just $2M.
Great cheap pickup for DAL.

I wonder why POR didn't try to get WCS for a 2nd rounder.  They could use a backup defensive PF.

So essentially GS decided to keep Marquise Chriss and gave away their Willie.

What a mess SACto is.
Kiid's right, they totally blew the chance to add Luka the Great.
Dedmon wants out.  Giles buried. Bogdanovich being underused and likely will leave as an FA.  Hield got his contract and is underperforming.  Fox has been injured.   They didn't develop WCS and seem to be failing with Giles as well.

3-15 lately.  Anything going right out there?
Disorganized team.  Bog is going to be available.  He should be on our radar along with Giles.  Good teams raid badly run teams ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 25, 2020, 08:27:56 AM
What would NY do with Bogdon or Giles?

In Vlade/Walton's defense Kings players have missed quire a few games.  DEPTH, like with many teams, seems a problem
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 25, 2020, 08:30:27 AM
SAC has 10 losses by 1-4 points
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 25, 2020, 08:36:11 AM
Knix need shooters.
Bogdan would start at SG for us. 
Guy can shoot and handle.

Giles would be a development Big.
A different body than Mitch.
Also insurance in case the League figures out Mitch more than Mitch figures out the League.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 25, 2020, 09:54:32 AM
They are both free agents
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 25, 2020, 09:55:48 AM
My bad - maybe you meant this summer
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 25, 2020, 10:34:26 AM
Celtics didnt miss Tatum yesterday

JT has been hot.

Fultz and Ball as well

Markell 14-6-5 over ten games and at 46/75 shooting for season

Ball the lesser shooter but scorching it at 13-9-8 for last ten.
Title: Double Doubles
Post by: Kam on January 25, 2020, 02:35:25 PM
FILL in the blank

__Player A___  leads the Knicks with 18 double-doubles
__Player B___ is second on the team with 5 double-doubles but isn't a starter
__Player C___ is next with 3 double-doubles
__Player D___ also has 3 double-doubles but isn't a starter
__Player E ___ is next with 2 double-doubles
__Player F____ has 2 double-doubles but used assists not rebounds to get there



Title: Re: Double Doubles
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 25, 2020, 02:53:59 PM
FILL in the blank

__Player A___  leads the Knicks with 18 double-doubles    Julius
__Player B___ is second on the team with 5 double-doubles but isn't a starter     Mitchell
__Player C___ is next with 3 double-doubles       Marcus
__Player D___ also has 3 double-doubles but isn't a starter     Bobby
__Player E ___ is next with 2 double-doubles     R.J.   
__Player F____ has 2 double-doubles but used assists not rebounds to get there      Elfrid
Title: Re: We are best when we play
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 25, 2020, 02:57:29 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on January 24, 2020, 11:31:59 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 24, 2020, 09:36:16 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on January 24, 2020, 07:34:24 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 24, 2020, 03:46:23 PM
Portis at C
Randle at PF
Morris at SF

with Barrett and Payton

Any other lineup you trot out will be worse offensively.
Maybe better defensive lineups out there, but if you want to score you play Portis and reap the rewards of spacing.

https://twitter.com/dwsmall8/status/1220782160367497217 (https://twitter.com/dwsmall8/status/1220782160367497217)

I'm not trying to be a smartass but what is a 3man line-up?   It's 5 on 5.

It's not a three man lineup, its the players who are the common denominator regardless of the players in the other two positions.  The fact that these three keep showing up is an interesting metric that indicates chemistry rather than empty personal statistics.

I'm not even trying to rattle your arguments - simply trying to provide material as to why some of us feel so strongly about Frankie and Dotson.  MR is a no-brainer.

Ntlikina-Dotson-Knox

Are you kidding me?

100 minutes - playing when down 20+ points and against other teams'second and third units

The stats are BOLLOCKS
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 25, 2020, 05:21:13 PM
For some reason the replays I've been finding always have the opponents broadcasters even when the game is at MSG.

Andy Rautins Dad, Leo is one Toronto announcer, and he had his partner laughing a lot.  They praised the Knick rebounding, which was strong again, and Coach miller, saying NY looked more prepared.  Although Rautins said they have the best seat in basketball at MSg, sitting next to the legendary Clyde Frazier.  Then add "Clyde the Glide."   Canucks ...  Maybe he was trying to be funny(?)


Mostly a solid game from NYK.  I like Portis' interior passing.  Knix moved the ball a lot, though it often didn't lead to shots.  Also, Raps tended to leave Payton open if they had to play off someone.  Still looks to me like FVV's margin for error is small, and I think he'd struggle on a weak team with ill-defined roles and poor shooters.  Rautins et al thought Portis could be a good player on a better team.  But he can look good one night and then not the next two.  Consistency and focus are weaknesses.
Title: Nyets
Post by: carlos123 on January 25, 2020, 11:29:35 PM
They won in overtime today.

Ergo

We beat them badly tomorrow 😊😁
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 26, 2020, 02:19:09 AM
I thought this was kinda cool.
Scoring for all games played including playoffs.

(http://a.espncdn.com/prod/styles/pagetype/otl/20200120_scoring_timeline/img/infographic_c_667.svg)

Pretty amazing consistency from LeBJ.
(I assume most of Kobe's single digit games were from his rook year when he wasn't quite ready)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 26, 2020, 02:20:26 AM
Quote
RJ Barrett will miss at least one more week as he continues to recover from a sprained right ankle.

The team said Saturday that Barrett has transitioned from crutches to a walking boot and that his next evaluation would take place in a week.
Title: Re: Double Doubles
Post by: Kam on January 26, 2020, 10:53:00 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 25, 2020, 02:53:59 PM
FILL in the blank

__Player A___  leads the Knicks with 18 double-doubles    Julius
__Player B___ is second on the team with 5 double-doubles but isn't a starter     Mitchell
__Player C___ is next with 3 double-doubles       Marcus
__Player D___ also has 3 double-doubles but isn't a starter     Bobby
__Player E ___ is next with 2 double-doubles     R.J.   
__Player F____ has 2 double-doubles but used assists not rebounds to get there      Elfrid


Good guesses BUT
Player B is Bobby Portis
Player D is Mitchell Robibson
Title: Mamba Out
Post by: bodiddley on January 26, 2020, 03:11:42 PM
Holy Shit.  There are reports that Kobe just died in a helicopter crash!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: AdeTheOba on January 26, 2020, 03:17:46 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 26, 2020, 03:11:42 PM
Holy Shit.  There are some initial reports that Kobe just died in a helicopter crash!
My heart is SO heavy right now.....no words....
Title: Wow
Post by: Kam on January 26, 2020, 03:25:39 PM
So sad.   Helicopter crash with his daughters.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 26, 2020, 03:29:12 PM
Oh geez, I hadn't heard that.  Reports I saw were just that 4 other people were aboard.  Terrible if his girls died as well.

I never was much of a Kobe fan, but post-retirement he seemed to have a lot going on, much that was interesting.  Just 41. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on January 26, 2020, 03:31:01 PM
so sad

what a tragedy

my jaw dropped when I saw the headline
Title: Re: Wow
Post by: Kam on January 26, 2020, 04:23:04 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 26, 2020, 03:25:39 PM
So sad.   Helicopter crash with his daughters.

One of his daughters. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 26, 2020, 05:13:58 PM
His 13 year old daughter Gianna.  Seems they were on their way to one of her games, which Kobe coached.  Another parent and female player also on board.  Presumably the 5th person was the pilot.

I didn't know Kobe had 4 daughters.  The youngest just born in 2019.  Which shows how young Kobe still was.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 26, 2020, 06:03:09 PM
Apparently he flew by Helicopter all the time.  Never worried about it.

So many celebs have died in small aircraft, i can see this perhaps scaring off others from this mode of travel.

I have no idea if it's safer than driving or not, but i'm inherently afraid of getting in a crash i can't possibly walk away from. 

You can't even parachute out to safety, it's just dangerous.
Title: My kobe memory
Post by: Kam on January 26, 2020, 06:13:05 PM
I think it was the 2005-2006 season.   I was taken to a Knicks game as a surprise gift.  Knicks vs Lakers.  Kobe went off for 40pts.  Lakers won easily.  I remember thinking that to that day Kobe was probably the best player I had ever seen play in-person.  Still is.
Title: Kobe & Gianna
Post by: chipstern on January 26, 2020, 06:37:04 PM
My

GOD
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 26, 2020, 09:05:31 PM
That was a shock. It was something to see how different teams and crowds acknowledged him during their games. A real testament to his influence.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 27, 2020, 02:25:49 AM
FYI, here are a few streaming sites where I've been catching games lately.
This one is for live games: http://nbastreams.xyz/schedule/I watched the last 6 minutes of the Spurs-Raps game, crystal clear last night.  But then my crappy internet couldn't get the BOS -NOPe game to start.

These two are for full replays.
https://www.nbafullhd.com/
I prefer this one because it divides the game into 4 videos one for each quarter, so it's easy to start watching a game at any point.
&
https://fullmatchtv.com/nba/
This one doesn't work as well in the PRC.
Title: Easy month ahead - time to make a push
Post by: Kam on January 27, 2020, 10:13:01 AM
Some very winnable games coming up.  We may have dug too deep a hole early in the season with Fizdale and no Payton but the 9th seed is easily within our grasp if we want it.    We could go 9-4 over the next stretch if we beat who we should beat.  More likely we go 6-7 but even that might be enough to move up some spots in the standings.


Tue, Jan 28   
@
Charlotte

Wed, Jan 29   
vs
Memphis

Sat, Feb 1   
@
Indiana

Mon, Feb 3   
@
Cleveland

Thu, Feb 6   
vs
Orlando

Sat, Feb 8   
@
Detroit

Sun, Feb 9   
@
Atlanta

Wed, Feb 12   
vs
Washington

Fri, Feb 21   
vs
Indiana

Mon, Feb 24   
@
Houston

Wed, Feb 26   
@
Charlotte

Thu, Feb 27   
@
Philadelphia

Sat, Feb 29   
vs
Chicago
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 27, 2020, 02:33:23 PM
Er, 4 teams obviously much better than us.
Of the 9 games against weak sisters, 2 games @ CHA.  They are at our level or better and have some young legs that could give us trouble.  Hit their 3's and were sunk.  Memf has been playing well; JaMo is the real thing.  ORL matches up well with us with their size. CHI is at our level or better, if healthy.  Wiz are very deep and score a lot with no D.  And even the CLE & ATl games are on the Road.
Maybe 5-8 . . .

As for helicopters and small private planes, I always think they are more dangerous when flown by amateurs (ie if Kobe or another parent were the pilot).  Also, many planes stay in service a long time and the older the flying machine the more likely a mechanical problem.  The helicopter Kobe was nearly 30 years old, put in service way back in 1991. 

But the usual culprit is poor weather, combined with human error or mechanical issues. I was thinking that southern CA would be a good place for helicopters, much like motorcycles, since the weather is usually clear and sunny.  But seems there was a pretty severe morning fog that day, and the LAPD grounded their helicopters due to the poor visibility.  Gotta wait til that stuff burns off as the sun heats the planet.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 27, 2020, 09:57:04 PM
The pilot was experienced but supposedly they were in 0 visibility fog.  Risky business.
Title: Retiring 8 and 24
Post by: Kam on January 28, 2020, 03:43:13 PM
Spencer Dinwiddie is changing from #8 to #26
Mark Cuban has stated no MAV will ever wear #24 again
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 28, 2020, 05:53:19 PM
With harden, Rustbrook and Capela out, Dantmanbee started PJ Tucker at C and 4 guards.  Making Gobert have to guard Tuck on the perimeter.  And taking advantage of slowfooted guys like Ingles.
UTA did a poor job of getting the ball into GoBear.  UTA has COnley coming off the bench for whatever reason -- the Rockets announcers noted it, but didn't explain much.

Gordon went off for a career high 50 (with 20 FTA's) and Rockets won.  Rockets got 49 FT's.  Credit for D'Ant for sticking with his style. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 28, 2020, 08:25:45 PM
DSJ gets the nod as first PG off the bench, Frank seems to be happy for him as he makes two high degree of difficulty layups.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 28, 2020, 08:35:49 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 28, 2020, 08:25:45 PM
DSJ gets the nod as first PG off the bench, Frank seems to be happy for him as he makes two high degree of difficulty layups.

No word on why Frank is not playing.
Clyde surprised since Frank had a good game vs BKN
Breen speculating the Knicks are showcasing Dennis for a trade. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 28, 2020, 08:51:03 PM
This is the Billy Hernan-gomez revenge game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 28, 2020, 09:32:22 PM
Yup.

Also the league wants to keep us in lotto contention.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on January 28, 2020, 10:16:00 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 28, 2020, 09:32:22 PM
Yup.

Also the league wants to keep us in lotto contention.

yeah, the lottery - exitement for people in comas.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 29, 2020, 02:12:37 AM
Quote from: Kam on January 28, 2020, 08:35:49 PM
No word on why Frank is not playing.
Clyde surprised since Frank had a good game vs BKN
Breen speculating the Knicks are showcasing Dennis for a trade.

Makes sense.  Knix would likely take a high 2nd for Jr. Smith bout now.  Which is probably foolhardy.  He makes sense as  trade sweetener, and could be showcased for that.

Franc did have a good game v, BKY.  Was making his shots, was pretty decisive, even got into the paint some, some good hustle.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 29, 2020, 10:37:12 AM
PJ Wash looked pretty good.  Stays down and doesn't foul on D.  Did a nice job going against bulkier vets Randle and Taj.  Also hitting 41% on 3's and has a nice looking stroke.  Ended up with an ugly 1-9 FG but 8 boards, 4 assists and solid D.

Can't say I'm behind starting all vets and having an all-yute, all-inexperienced bench.  I guess it's just while RJB is out, but it looks more like how an interim coach tries to keep his job rather than what a 13-35 team with lots of yute should be doing.

Randle was scoring well early, but he might be the worst I've ever seen away form the ball guarding a man in the corner.  he's just itching to slide into the paint, doesn't look back at his man when he's hedging, and just makes the wrong read every time.  Whenever an opp gets an open 3, it's usually due to Randle, though Portis contributes there as well. 

Middle of 1Q, Randle just totally leaves his man and sinks into the paint to thwart a non-existent threat.  As the pass goes to Randle's man in the corner, Randle is inexplicably heading towards the FT line instead of out towards his man.  Morris looks over notices somehow he's become the closest guy and takes two defeated steps towards the corner as the shot goes up.  You can see Morris wondering how the hell somebody's man got so ridiculously open.
 
And yes, I've become negative on Randle and would keep Morris and move Randle if possible.  If Randle either started making his 3's or stopped taking them, and the Knix had a legit PG running the show, Randle might be fine.  As is, he's a turnover machine and I cringe when he shoots a 3.
 
Randle has also bailed on Team USA citing a family matter.  Not sure if that's just a generic excuse or he has some distractions.  Distractions plus a 13-35 record can cause some folks to lose focus.  Maybe that's part of his underwhelming season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 29, 2020, 11:58:01 AM
SIX NBA players currently get 19 and 9 per game

Blue and Orange Julius is one of them

(If you are bucking for a quiz, name the other 5)

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 29, 2020, 12:39:08 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 29, 2020, 11:58:01 AM
SIX NBA players currently get 19 and 9 per game

Blue and Orange Julius is one of them

(If you are bucking for a quiz, name the other 5)

James LeBron
Tony Davis
Freak Giannis
Karl Towns

and...  Joelle Embee
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 29, 2020, 01:13:15 PM
Yes

Except LeBron (7.7)

Towns wasn't on my list - I think it was a games played thing (need 2/3 of team's games) - but of course easily qualifies

Others are Doncic and Jokic.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 29, 2020, 02:18:58 PM
LeBJ has it with assists.

Changing it to 18 & 10, would add Sabonis and Vucevic and drop Randle.  KZ almost at 17 & 9.

This roster doesn't do Randle any favors.  He gets lots of ops, but is tasked with too much.  His turnovers are high, but there's usually also an extra two or three near turnovers each game as well.  Hell, two near-turnovers in the 1Q v CHA.

Randle has his FG% up to 45%.  Not that great for a Big, but decent.  And trending up.  His 3's are rather clanky.  He shouldn't shoot any except wide open takes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 29, 2020, 02:41:50 PM
Randle's turnovers are average/low for the 7-man group of 19-9ers.

Just Jokic and Davis I believe are lower.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 29, 2020, 02:51:57 PM
Randle with the worst assist'turnover ratio of the 5.

Kam, now need to go 6-6 to meet your prediction.
Memf playing well.  They beat us, and they'll be at .500
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 29, 2020, 03:17:42 PM
Marcus Smart is not a very good 3 point shooter.  About the same this year as Randle was last.

32 per cent career

Smart shoots about seven 3s per game.  Last night he was lauded for his willingness to take the big shot.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 29, 2020, 06:18:01 PM
Changing it to 18 & 10, would add Sabonis and Vucevic and drop Randle.  KZ almost at 17 & 9.


Drops Davis and Doncic as well

I like my list better
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 29, 2020, 06:22:11 PM
Vucevic made it (19-9) last year, as did Westbrook, Aldridge and J Collins.

Randle was just short and Luka missed as well.  Paul George impressive but just 8.2 boards.

19-9 pretty exclusive every year
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 29, 2020, 08:02:34 PM
speaking of light schedules -

Brooklyn had a chance to run off seven straight....

until Kyrie skipped the game vs NY.

Could easily get tonight plus the next 4.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 29, 2020, 08:46:51 PM
Dennis - 4 turnovers in 5:44?  Really?
Title: Fight Night!
Post by: Kam on January 29, 2020, 10:05:45 PM
Get that shyt outta here Jae Crowdah.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 29, 2020, 10:50:58 PM
Yeah, props to Elfrid tonight. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 30, 2020, 01:50:26 AM
Note to Knix: Play fucking better ...

I haven't seen the replay yet, but feeling disrespected because the guy took a 3?  Uh, sounds weak on our end.

Ja "Get a Brain" Morant +42
Backup Ty Jones -21

Time to start Dot or Mitch or Knox.  Or all 3.
Losing to mediocre teams starting all-vets has gotten old fast.  (I didn't like it to begin with).

EDIT: If the plan is to showcase our vets for a couple weeks for trades, then I change my tune completely and am all-in on that.

Note to Kam: Just need to go 6-5 and that prediction will be spot on ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 30, 2020, 02:37:24 AM
Quote
The loss of the league's China-driven revenue has caused many front office executives to tell ESPN that they've been preparing for the possibility that the original 2020-2021 cap projection of $116 million could drop as far as $113 million.

China's decision to pull sponsorships and television coverage because Rockets GM Daryl Morey tweeted support for anti-government protesters in Hong Kong in October is believed to have cost the NBA anywhere between $150 million and $200 million, league sources said.

I'm kind of amazed that there weren't contracts in place shielding the NBa from such a hit.  Or that this hasn't been resolved.  Afterall it was just one team exec sending off a tweet.  Seems the NBA allowed China to breach contracts and drop a $200M hit on it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on January 30, 2020, 08:26:58 AM
Sorry Peyton no points in my book, this sorry ass excuse for a squad needs a reality check.  Crowder is showing NY what they should already know, this team suck.  The team should be disrespected, these players should be embarrassed, they should be clowned.  Miller is bugging out, if we are going to lose at least let the youngins play, I want to see what Bradzekis can do in real time, he always tear up the summer league, Let Mitchell play thru his foul woes so he can understand what not to do, Let Knox develop, his jumper looks smooth as a babys ass. Dotson should get all the burn at shooting guard,  I like Miller as a coach but his fear of keeping the job is going to cost him the job.  Play the Youngins make them better and the job is yours to lose.  Playing the vets and losing makes him look desperate and he is out of here.  Next page.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 30, 2020, 10:58:54 AM
Yeah. Start Dotson.

He should be our starting shooting guard for at least a couple of months (not just a couple of games).

He's earned the opportunity. And he shows signs of a capacity to get to another level.

God knows we need something.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 30, 2020, 12:01:36 PM
Quote
A loud "Sell the team" chant rises up at MSG with Knicks down 18 and a fracas on the court just broken up. MSG starts piping in loud music to break it up. Things are not going well in New York tonight.

— Mike Vorkunov (@MikeVorkunov) January 30, 2020
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 30, 2020, 12:22:59 PM
Solid 7-game stretch for Dotson

56/53/67 shooting has him up around career norms of 43/36/67

Is 25.  Should be making this leap about now.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 30, 2020, 12:23:57 PM
He should be our starting shooting guard for at least a couple of months (not just a couple of games).


You probably mean if we deal Morris.  Barrett back soon.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 30, 2020, 12:56:12 PM
I assume we are showcasing vets and Jr. Smith (who looks out of shape).  Probably a sign Knix have no deals set yet.

Plenty of time to get yutes starting minutes after the trade deadline.

So you folks support Peyton's punk move? 
He's lucky the ref was right there or Crowder would've done some dentistry work.

Note the play was started with a very lackadaisical pass by Randle who had mentally checked out of the game a play or two earlier.  Randle double teamed Ja, than just kind of wandered around not without a plan, not much interested.  Then made that weak inbounds pass. 

One thing I've learned is to practice making good plays always.  Even when guys are just shooting I make sure to make good passes right into the shooters pocket, to notice if a guy likes passes up a little or down a bit.  Not to make a big deal of it, but no reason to practice or make lame passes like Randle did.  I try to keep making sharp passes just a natural part of always, both practice and game.

I also think players should play to the end of the game.  I like a guy like Crowder who is and remains competitive.  Keep your instincts sharp, stay focused.  Crowder did, Randle didn't.  Knix allowed themselves to be embarrassed. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 30, 2020, 01:22:20 PM
We went spastic and goonish in the face of Memphis physicality and pace. It’s a really bad look.

As a leader Morris took the lead on that from the jump. Crowder seriously won that confrontation from the tip.

I just hope the last two games rehabilitate Smith Jr. enough that he can be moved.
Title: Wishful Thinking
Post by: carlos123 on January 30, 2020, 02:07:51 PM
Obviously the FO wants to move Smith Jr. and that’s why they told coach to give him minutes.

I’m afraid what we’re selling will have no takers, not when all he’s showing is he can’t play a lick.

The Kamster is probably happy with this because Ntilikina ain’t playing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 30, 2020, 02:09:44 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 30, 2020, 12:56:12 PM

I also think players should play to the end of the game.  I like a guy like Crowder who is and remains competitive.  Keep your instincts sharp, stay focused.  Crowder did, Randle didn't.  Knix allowed themselves to be embarrassed.

You're focused on the steal.  Who cares about that?  What Elfrid and others had a problem with is the Crowder 3 with 20 seconds left on the shot clock, up a million.
Title: Re: Wishful Thinking
Post by: Kam on January 30, 2020, 02:11:05 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 30, 2020, 02:07:51 PM

The Kamster is probably happy with this because Ntilikina ain’t playing.

Wrong.
Title: Re: Wishful Thinking
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 30, 2020, 02:13:19 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 30, 2020, 02:07:51 PM
Obviously the FO wants to move Smith Jr. and that’s why they told coach to give him minutes.

I’m afraid what we’re selling will have no takers, not when all he’s showing is he can’t play a lick.

The Kamster is probably happy with this because Ntilikina ain’t playing.

Smith hit a contested 3 last night and also had a monster dunk.  I don't think "can't play a lick" sums it up.  Team's see individual plays as well as stat lines
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 30, 2020, 02:16:08 PM
Leave Crowder alone.  He was going for the quadruple single.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on January 30, 2020, 02:20:01 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 30, 2020, 02:09:44 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 30, 2020, 12:56:12 PM

I also think players should play to the end of the game.  I like a guy like Crowder who is and remains competitive.  Keep your instincts sharp, stay focused.  Crowder did, Randle didn't.  Knix allowed themselves to be embarrassed.

You're focused on the steal.  Who cares about that?  What Elfrid and others had a problem with is the Crowder 3 with 20 seconds left on the shot clock, up a million.
Why should that be a problem? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 30, 2020, 02:20:33 PM
By the way Crowder in the end backed up and wanted no part of Payton.  Not that it matters much.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 30, 2020, 02:35:44 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 30, 2020, 02:20:33 PM
By the way Crowder in the end backed up and wanted no part of Payton.  Not that it matters much.

Uh, that didn't happen.
Crowder got up, went after Payton hard, the ref quickly got in the middle and blocked Crowder, who still struggled to get at Payton and then thought better of getting ejected and fined when a whole herd of people arrived.  Crowder should have gotten one tech for going after Payton and been allowed to stay in and shoot the FT's.
Clyde & Breen also thought his ejection was nonsense.

I've said before that folks probably don't want to mess with NYK with Randle and Morris.  But Crowder and Valanciunas are big and tough.

And btw it was the combination of the steal and the 3 that got the Knix all huffy and hurt feelings.  Again, play better and smarter and it doesn't happen.  But I prefer Crowder's actions on that play than Randle or Payton's.
Title: Re: Wishful Thinking
Post by: carlos123 on January 30, 2020, 02:56:15 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 30, 2020, 02:11:05 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 30, 2020, 02:07:51 PM

The Kamster is probably happy with this because Ntilikina ain’t playing.

Wrong.

So sorry you ain’t happy.

Enes is sorry too. 😐
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 30, 2020, 03:38:11 PM
Clyde and Breen missed the Morris ejection entirely - which is why they couldn't figure the awarded free throws properly

By doing what you described Crowder was guilty of escalation. 

Elf nailed him good, making Crowder a national disgrace today
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 30, 2020, 04:48:10 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 30, 2020, 03:38:11 PM

Elf nailed him good, making Crowder a national disgrace today

Yeah, and Up is Down, Black is White and Trump is Lincoln.  Got it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 30, 2020, 05:30:00 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on January 30, 2020, 02:20:01 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 30, 2020, 02:09:44 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 30, 2020, 12:56:12 PM

I also think players should play to the end of the game.  I like a guy like Crowder who is and remains competitive.  Keep your instincts sharp, stay focused.  Crowder did, Randle didn't.  Knix allowed themselves to be embarrassed.

You're focused on the steal.  Who cares about that?  What Elfrid and others had a problem with is the Crowder 3 with 20 seconds left on the shot clock, up a million.
Why should that be a problem?

Because it's bush league.  Paul Pierce said he'd shove him too.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on January 30, 2020, 05:59:48 PM
I think getting offended by something like that is bush league and losing, at home, by a "million" to a team like the Memphis is bush league.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 30, 2020, 06:02:38 PM
https://twitter.com/jkubatko/status/1222889956001009666
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 30, 2020, 10:31:50 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on January 30, 2020, 05:59:48 PM
I think getting offended by something like that is bush league and losing, at home, by a "million" to a team like the Memphis is bush league.

Shaq, Charles, and Kenny all said they agreed with Payton's hard foul there. 
Title: All-Star snubs
Post by: Kam on January 30, 2020, 10:51:51 PM
Paul George, Karl Towns, Bradley Beal, Devon Booker. ...Enes Kanter.
First time since 1997 there are no San Antonio spurs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 30, 2020, 11:58:59 PM
Wow - Beal and Booker are rough

If they took Tatum AND Brown, I call for an inquiry
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on January 31, 2020, 12:21:24 AM
Quote from: Kam on January 30, 2020, 10:31:50 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on January 30, 2020, 05:59:48 PM
I think getting offended by something like that is bush league and losing, at home, by a "million" to a team like the Memphis is bush league.

Shaq, Charles, and Kenny all said they agreed with Payton's hard foul there.
And? None of them ever played for an embarrassing organization like the Knicks. Win some games then you can be offended.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on January 31, 2020, 12:40:15 AM
Tatum an all-star?

what a surprise.

to some

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 31, 2020, 02:06:50 AM
Quote
Booker, who has never made an All-Star team, is averaging 27.1 points per game, fifth-most in the West, and 6.4 assists per game on 51% shooting this season.

The only other players in NBA history to average 27 points and six assists on 50% shooting in a season are LeBron James, Michael Jordan, Larry Bird, Stephen Curry and Oscar Robertson.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 31, 2020, 09:16:54 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on January 31, 2020, 12:40:15 AM
Tatum an all-star?

what a surprise.

to some

heh

Beal is better - but too many guards. 

Happy to see BAM on the team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 31, 2020, 09:17:53 AM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on January 31, 2020, 12:21:24 AM
Quote from: Kam on January 30, 2020, 10:31:50 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on January 30, 2020, 05:59:48 PM
I think getting offended by something like that is bush league and losing, at home, by a "million" to a team like the Memphis is bush league.

Shaq, Charles, and Kenny all said they agreed with Payton's hard foul there.
And? None of them ever played for an embarrassing organization like the Knicks. Win some games then you can be offended.

You're an NBA idiot.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on January 31, 2020, 10:07:38 AM
 Heh. "Crowder is a national disgrace!"
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 31, 2020, 11:55:43 AM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on January 31, 2020, 12:21:24 AM
Quote from: Kam on January 30, 2020, 10:31:50 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on January 30, 2020, 05:59:48 PM
I think getting offended by something like that is bush league and losing, at home, by a "million" to a team like the Memphis is bush league.

Shaq, Charles, and Kenny all said they agreed with Payton's hard foul there.
And? None of them ever played for an embarrassing organization like the Knicks. Win some games then you can be offended.

AND they referred to the unwritten rule of players. They've all been up by a lot or down by a lot with time running out.  There's an expectation there that you don't try to pile on needlessly.  TO steal the ball and run to the three pt line with 20 seconds left on the shot clock and take a three with 17 seconds left on the clock when there is less than 40 seconds left in the game is bush league.  He was trying to pad his stats at a time where his opponent had waved the white flag.

It's bush league.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 31, 2020, 01:43:19 PM
white flag is bush league
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 31, 2020, 01:59:55 PM
I think Zach Lowe should be barred from using the Knix in his videos (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/28585379/eleven-nba-things-right-now). Three of them show RJB making mistakes and another where the Knix can't get the ball into Randle.  One involves a defensive miscommunication between Randle and RJB, who goes for the steal and leaves a great shooter wide open.
Kind of easy pickings picking on a Knick rook.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 31, 2020, 02:48:23 PM
Barrett hasn't been consistent and may have been another mistake.

Knicks can't get it right - this time playing it safe and possibly again failing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 31, 2020, 03:11:15 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 31, 2020, 01:43:19 PM
white flag is bush league

What do you know about bush league?
Crowder is being universally derided by NBA players and ex players.
I get that you think because you play a lot of basketball you're the same.
But you're not.  You play rec league.  Nobody is watching when you embarass someone.
These guys have friends and family in the stands and at home. 
Disrespect has real consequences.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 31, 2020, 03:50:20 PM
Bo defends the guy who intentionally misses so he can get his 10th rebound and a triple double (I forget which player that was)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 31, 2020, 04:25:12 PM
Crowder is being universally derided by NBA players and ex players.


I got a kick out of Morris's assessment of Jae Crowder's "theatrics".

May be a reason Dallas, then Boston, then Cleveland, then Utah sent him away.

Not long for Memphis either.  Just age 29 and getting the suitcase ready again.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 31, 2020, 04:45:05 PM
My point about my playing was that Randle shouldn't have just mailed in his inbounds pass, but should have made a legit NBA pass to his PG.  Don't practice or engage in bad habits.  Take every play seriously.  Encode good and smart plays on your neocortex.

My read is Crowder played the game, Payton made an illegal non-basketball play.   I also think it's stupid when a team gets upset that their opps take a shot instead of a 24 sec violation at the very end in a not close game.  Who cares?  Why is that shot irksome?  Why get an extra violation.  You can if you want to be gentlemanly, but shooting is a normal basketball play, deal with it.

I doubt I supported anyone padding their stats like that, though that happens frequently in various scenarios.  One problem with having so many guys on 1 year deals is everyone wants to get their numbers to get a better next contract.  And if you or others are likely gone soon, there's not much incentive to build chemistry and work on teamwork.

Who was it that shot at the opponents basket to get an extra rebound, only to learn that's a violation?  Blatche?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on January 31, 2020, 04:52:33 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 31, 2020, 04:45:05 PM
My point about my playing was that Randle shouldn't have just mailed in his inbounds pass, but should have made a legit NBA pass to his PG.  Don't practice or engage in bad habits.  Take every play seriously.  Encode good and smart plays on your neocortex.

My read is Crowder played the game, Payton made an illegal non-basketball play.   I also think it's stupid when a team gets upset that their opps take a shot instead of a 24 sec violation at the very end in a not close game.  Who cares?  Why is that shot irksome?  Why get an extra violation.  You can if you want to be gentlemanly, but shooting is a normal basketball play, deal with it.

I doubt I supported anyone padding their stats like that, though that happens frequently in various scenarios.  One problem with having so many guys on 1 year deals is everyone wants to get their numbers to get a better next contract.  And if you or others are likely gone soon, there's not much incentive to build chemistry and work on teamwork.

Who was it that shot at the opponents basket to get an extra rebound, only to learn that's a violation?  Blatche?
It was either Rickey Davis or Darius Miles who were essentially the same guy. Yep lots of teams have dumped Crowder. Somebody should ask Kid how many teams noted tough guy Marcus Morris has played for.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 31, 2020, 04:55:16 PM

My read is Crowder played the game, Payton made an illegal non-basketball play

Absolute truth.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 31, 2020, 04:56:57 PM
Knix were one draft spot away from Morant who is a special talent.  Memf at .500 under his rook leadership.   Something like 18-6 recently.  Word was that RJB couldn't shoot and played inattentive D.  He started off hot form the perimeter but that as long since cratered.  There were some interesting 3&D wings further down the draft. 

Drafts aren't easy and Barrett has some skills.  But we have a real non-shooting team with Payton/Franc - RJB - Randle - Mitch - Taj.
Morris has been killer, Knox tries, Dot coming around, Bullox willing.  A team desperately calling out for a shooting PG. 

Crowder is mentoring Ja, as per Moran't Dad.
Crowd is giving them a nice 10 / 6 / 3 and solid D (even if his shooting numbers have cratered since his BOS days).
I think he'll stick in Memf, he's their vet.

Jae outplayed Morris and clearly got under his skin.
2Q an annoyed Morris just shoved Crowder out of the way, for an O-foul.

My take is the Knix embarrassed themselves.
Randle with a weak pass.  Payton with a cheap shot foul.  Morris with stupid post-game comments.  I don't see how any of that is better than Crowder stealing the ball and taking a shot.
You don't want to be embarrassed, play better, play smarter, stay focused.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 31, 2020, 05:05:51 PM
My take is the Knix embarrassed themselves.


Sums up the decade

Lets hope for better in this one
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 31, 2020, 05:07:57 PM
Interestingly, Crowder was traded in deals for Rondo, Kyrie and Conley by DAL, BOS, and UTA respectively.

DAL gave up on Crowder because he displayed limited offense.
He developed a shot in BOS (40% on 3's one year), but they cashed in his 3&D prowess for Kyrie.

Thereafter his shot deserted him (33% on 3's) and he got shuffled around.  He's still a bargain at $7M.

Knix whole starting unit these days composed of journeymen like Crowder.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 31, 2020, 05:09:14 PM
Solid D by Jae, no doubt - on Morris - who even off the 5-17 is still at 47/41 shooting for last ten games

2 players going in the opposite direction statistically
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 31, 2020, 05:16:17 PM
v. NYK Crowder had 18 points on 6 FG's! 
And hounded NY's best player.

I thought it would be his best game of the year, but he had a 27 / 8 / 7 gem against the Clips Jan 4, with 3 steals and 3 blocks thrown in, and +39 for the game, in a Griz blowout.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 31, 2020, 05:29:51 PM
So what's everybody's prescription to fix the Knix?

I'd move vets for yute.
Cut bait on Randle and stick with Morris.
Ditch Portis and Ellington.

Look for a legit starting PG.  CP3, Dinwiddie, Tangelo, FvanV, other.

Find shooters. 

A 3&D wing would be nice.

I'd stick with Morris, Mitch, RJB and Payton (until a PG upgrade can be had) as my core for now. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 31, 2020, 05:32:50 PM
Memphis a bit of a mess going forward - no first rounder this year - just a Phoenix second - then will likely be drafting in middle of rounds for a few years.  Cap room?  Sure - should be a good chunk of that.  Who will play with Ja?  We'll see.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 31, 2020, 05:39:46 PM
So what's everybody's prescription to fix the Knix?



DRAFT - and sign a big name if you can.

Listen to offers on all but Barrett.  But don't deal Julius cheaply.

Keep Morris?  I don't think I would for 4 years.


Just a guess how we look next year:


Frank/Elfrid
RJ
Knox/Bullock
Julius
Mitch

Brazdekis
2 draftees
maybe Dotson

add what you can to that eleven.
Morris leaving in a sign and trade is a good possibility.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 31, 2020, 05:42:39 PM
At 5.5 mil I assume Smith is player 12, though he may not last all next season
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 31, 2020, 05:43:57 PM
I say there is also about a 65% chance we add a player or two at deadline that we can roster for '20-'21
Title: They Was Robbed....CARLOS on Luka versus Trae
Post by: chipstern on January 31, 2020, 07:54:20 PM
Uh, what did Gianna's favorite NBA player do last night?

38 points with 18 assists.

Not too shabby.
Title: Re: They Was Robbed....CARLOS on Luka versus Trae
Post by: carlos123 on January 31, 2020, 10:18:03 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 31, 2020, 07:54:20 PM
Uh, what did Gianna's favorite NBA player do last night?

38 points with 18 assists.

Not too shabby.

Trae is a very good player who had an exceptional game yesterday.

Luka is in another dimension.

You know, like comparing Melo and Bron when they were young.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on January 31, 2020, 10:59:24 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 31, 2020, 05:29:51 PM
So what's everybody's prescription to fix the Knix?

I'd move vets for yute.
Cut bait on Randle and stick with Morris.
Ditch Portis and Ellington.

Look for a legit starting PG.  CP3, Dinwiddie, Tangelo, FvanV, other.

Find shooters. 

A 3&D wing would be nice.

I'd stick with Morris, Mitch, RJB and Payton (until a PG upgrade can be had) as my core for now.

Good question and I agree with most of your prescription.  My biases are obvious and long-standing so no real surprises.

First let's just take an inventory of what we have in relation to where we are.

I think its safe to say the season is over.  What's different is that tempers are at boiling points so blatant tanking is out of the question.  But fact of the matter is that with our existing baggage and a little luck we could pick well in this year's draft regardless.

It should also be noted that our pipeline of incoming youth in the coming years is contiguous and FRPs abound so at this juncture we need not get too religious about trading for youth exclusively nor get too squirrelly about insisting on draft picks.

And based on a long history of getting jerked around in free agency two things are true, a.) true talent of interest doesn't show itself for the coming two summers and b.) we don't wheel and deal well enough to leverage whatever cap space we  might accrue chasing the free agent dream for the umpteenth time.

Which means we should look for opportunities on the trade market even if the player might carry a less than desirable contract.  I'm not suggesting star-Phuckin, just some judicious curating of the veteran part of the roster.

Sooooo.

I've recently read that both DSJ and Trier have been dogging it in practices which might account for their DNPs but also is the first place we should clean house.  If they don't want to be here, try it elsewhere - no hard feelings.

New York has also distracted Wayne Ellington from doing the one and only thing the Knicks want him to do - make 3s.  The minute he's traded he will find his stroke.

Portis and Randle should also be relocated just because they hold value that can't be leveraged here.  Playoff teams need these guys.

And I would be looking for a veteran PG this week.  Payton is movable.

I would also not hesitate moving Knox but not cheaply or indiscriminately.  He's a young asset doing the right things but expendable in the right deal.

---------------------------------------------

IMO, we need a veteran center who can complement MR.

If Aldrich is available, I play hard for acquiring him. Portis, Payton, Knox, and a Mavs #1 pumps a lot of youth into SA for Aldrich and Samanic.  Aldrich is a pro's pro, plays to win, and is exactly what's needed.

I would couple that with a trade of Randall, Ellington, and DSJ for Conley's hefty contract.

Walt Frazier really liked the play of Cody Martin.  See if they'll take Trier for Martin and McDaniels.


That would leave the Knicks looking something like:

Conley, Frankie, Allen
RJB, Dotson, Peters
Bullock, Martin, Iggy
Morris, Gibson, McDaniels, Samanic
Aldrich, Mitch, Wooten









Title: So bad
Post by: Kam on February 01, 2020, 12:17:55 AM
LOL...   LMA is 34 years old and has one more year left and you're giving up Knox and a pick for him!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 01, 2020, 02:20:54 AM
I dont think teams make a good enough effort to stop Luka Doncic.  They are content hoping to hold the other Mavs at bay and outscore them

I think this will change - especially at playoff time.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 01, 2020, 02:42:59 AM
Interesting.  LMA is aging and apparently slowing on D.  But has started to shoot 3's.  I haven't seen much of SAS in a while.  We're not in position to trade young assets for old vet.  Is LMA at this point better than Randle?

I'd be more looking to poach Poetl and/or Derrick White.

Conley has been dinged up and ineffective for Utah and is coming off the bench for now.  So not sure how broken down he is, or if he's will be right next year.

I'd be willing to take on an aging vet like CP3 or Conley just because we need a PG so badly and it would help organize the team and evaluate our personnel.

I'm wary of Selling Low/Dropping Jr. Smith for nada.  I'd rather add a starting PG, then make a decision on Payton/Franc as backup.  And hold on to Smith as 3rd PG  to see if he can up his value or become a useful backup.  The guy shows glimpses, and seems to have had a rough season both physically and personally.  So I'd wait and see if there is a player in there, unless he's a lockerroom detriment.  But all that is at the margins.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 01, 2020, 05:27:26 AM
I’d still like to pry Dedmon from Sacto. He works hard and has all the skills we’d want Mitch to develop. He can protect our PFs and give them room to operate closer to the rim as well as open driving lanes.

Miller did very well in the GLeague with a stretch five even if we didn’t think so much of that guy here.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on February 01, 2020, 09:52:20 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 01, 2020, 02:42:59 AM
Interesting.  LMA is aging and apparently slowing on D.  But has started to shoot 3's.  I haven't seen much of SAS in a while.  We're not in position to trade young assets for old vet.  Is LMA at this point better than Randle?

I'd be more looking to poach Poetl and/or Derrick White.

Conley has been dinged up and ineffective for Utah and is coming off the bench for now.  So not sure how broken down he is, or if he's will be right next year.

I'd be willing to take on an aging vet like CP3 or Conley just because we need a PG so badly and it would help organize the team and evaluate our personnel.

I'm wary of Selling Low/Dropping Jr. Smith for nada.  I'd rather add a starting PG, then make a decision on Payton/Franc as backup.  And hold on to Smith as 3rd PG  to see if he can up his value or become a useful backup.  The guy shows glimpses, and seems to have had a rough season both physically and personally.  So I'd wait and see if there is a player in there, unless he's a lockerroom detriment.  But all that is at the margins.

Given our kid corp, my thinking is that a couple of proven vets would give NY legitimacy.  Neither have a history of being role players and both still have enough juice in the tank to give us a couple of years of service which is about as much time as Frankie, Mitch, and a few others need.  In fact the combination may extend both Aldrich's and Conley's careers.

And I mention them both because they may be the most accessible assets we can acquire.  Both are pricey today but would come off the books exactly when we need them to.  Utah and SA aren't depending on either at this point.

I get that theoretically DSJ is still an athlete but pragmatically his league-wide reputation is a bum.  NY is the worst place on earth to be a bum in any capacity.  He stands no chance here given his attitude and work habits.  Can he change?  Sure but should we be the ones holding our breath waiting?  -  IMO dump him as ballast in a multi-player deal.

In the above deals [or something like them]  the only risky trade asset is Knox and maybe that Mavs FRP.  But we desperately need some smart, legitimate NBA talent to supplement the kids.

Randle and Portis will make fine role players for contenders and have proven to be inadequate as rotation players in NY.  nuff said.

I'm not married to any particular deals but something along these lines I think would go a long way in remediating the brain-dead stupidity that we have suffered with for two seasons.  More young band-aids won't cut it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on February 01, 2020, 09:55:11 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 01, 2020, 05:27:26 AM
I’d still like to pry Dedmon from Sacto. He works hard and has all the skills we’d want Mitch to develop. He can protect our PFs and give them room to operate closer to the rim as well as open driving lanes.

Miller did very well in the GLeague with a stretch five even if we didn’t think so much of that guy here.

Dedmon might be an asset we could acquire - he's having a down year so... yes, I've always liked his game.  We'd have to presume he isn't just floating downstream though.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 01, 2020, 10:58:33 AM
Wonder if San Antone might want Marcus Morris  - in a sign and trade involving Aldridge - then we could keep Randle.

Frank
LaMelo Ball
Barrett (really a 3)
Randle
Aldridge
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on February 01, 2020, 01:14:58 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 01, 2020, 10:58:33 AM
Wonder if San Antone might want Marcus Morris  - in a sign and trade involving Aldridge - then we could keep Randle.

Frank
LaMelo Ball
Barrett (really a 3)
Randle
Aldridge

Your guess is as good as mine.  In the Aldrich [or comparable] category I figured Morris was a bit more versatile so the Knicks could roll with Morris at SF, Aldrich as PF and MR as center situationally.

I think you are right about Barrett at Sf, makes sense.

LaMelo is highly speculative at this point.  IMO, just solidify the team, eliminate boneheads.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 01, 2020, 01:39:40 PM
True - Ball may be long gone before we pick.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on February 01, 2020, 01:50:36 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 01, 2020, 01:39:40 PM
True - Ball may be long gone before we pick.

Right and whoever we get may not be a plug and play candidate.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 01, 2020, 01:59:45 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on February 01, 2020, 09:55:11 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 01, 2020, 05:27:26 AM
I’d still like to pry Dedmon from Sacto. He works hard and has all the skills we’d want Mitch to develop. He can protect our PFs and give them room to operate closer to the rim as well as open driving lanes.

Miller did very well in the GLeague with a stretch five even if we didn’t think so much of that guy here.

Dedmon might be an asset we could acquire - he's having a down year so... yes, I've always liked his game.  We'd have to presume he isn't just floating downstream though.

Check his game against the Clips just recently.

Injuries have pushed him up the depth chart and he’s starting to produce.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 01, 2020, 02:09:30 PM
With Frank and Payton out, I hope Smith has a monster game and reminds teams of his perceived promise as a player.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 01, 2020, 02:52:05 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on January 31, 2020, 10:59:24 PM
Portis and Randle should also be relocated just because they hold value that can't be leveraged here.  Playoff teams need these guys.

I hope somebody thinks so.   But Portis is very inconsistent; Randle mistake prone.   Both iffy defenders.   Any playoff trams really need 2-point scoring and have solid D?

Morris is the obvious giy a lot of playoff teams could use.

And kidd has a point.   Trade Randle now and resigning Morris becomes a Big Priority,  which likely means 4 years.   Maybe a descending contract that starts at $19M and drops $1M per year. 4/$70M.
Just don't expect this level every year.   

Basically,  see what Morris can fetch.   Should be many suitors.   Put feelers out on Randle,  which fewer teams would bite on.   Weigh the options.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on February 01, 2020, 03:52:09 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 01, 2020, 02:52:05 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on January 31, 2020, 10:59:24 PM
Portis and Randle should also be relocated just because they hold value that can't be leveraged here.  Playoff teams need these guys.

I hope somebody thinks so.   But Portis is very inconsistent; Randle mistake prone.   Both iffy defenders.   Any playoff trams really need 2-point scoring and have solid D?

Morris is the obvious giy a lot of playoff teams could use.

And kidd has a point.   Trade Randle now and resigning Morris becomes a Big Priority,  which likely means 4 years.   Maybe a descending contract that starts at $19M and drops $1M per year. 4/$70M.
Just don't expect this level every year.   

Basically,  see what Morris can fetch.   Should be many suitors.   Put feelers out on Randle,  which fewer teams would bite on.   Weigh the options.

Agreed. But... establish priorities.

If you have a suitor for Randle, work a deal.

That doesn't mean you don't stop shopping Morris.  It just means that you sequentially reevaluate where you are after each top priority item is executed.

If a Randle deal somehow provides team equilibrium then you can recalibrate the need, desire, or expected return on a Morris deal.

I think a high priority item is just curating the roster so that Miller can have dependable rotation players.  The roster is too crowded with look-alikes and underachieving disappointments all wanting and needing playing time.  Thin that herd out.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 01, 2020, 05:32:34 PM
Morris...Randle...

some consistency in the program

No way they deal both

(No way they deal Randle before re-signing MM unless player coming back is better)

Cant leave yourself too bare - is basically the point
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 01, 2020, 06:10:16 PM
Quiz for the day

15 qualifying players in NBA history with 8+ assists per game

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 01, 2020, 07:44:45 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 01, 2020, 06:10:16 PM
Quiz for the day

15 qualifying players in NBA history with 8+ assists per game

I'll name the Top 5

Stockton
Nash
LeBron
Mark Jackson
Magic
Title: The Cult Of Trader Vics
Post by: chipstern on February 01, 2020, 09:36:47 PM
Any of you motherfuckers ACTUALLY watch the GAME tonight.

Cripes.

Defense held Indy to 11 and 14 in the first and final quarters, beating Pacers on their home court.

That bum Randle with 18 boards.

Smith and Allen solid at the point.

Mercury Morris with 28. 

Good team effort.

We now return to the collective circle jerk.   
Title: Re: The Cult Of Trader Vics
Post by: carlos123 on February 01, 2020, 10:22:45 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 01, 2020, 09:36:47 PM
Any of you motherfuckers ACTUALLY watch the GAME tonight.

Cripes.

Defense held Indy to 11 and 14 in the first and final quarters, beating Pacers on their home court.

That bum Randle with 18 boards.

Smith and Allen solid at the point.

Mercury Morris with 28. 

Good team effort.

We now return to the collective circle jerk.

They'll keep on trading...

For LaMarcus Aldridge, no less.

Since they're at it, how about Mitchell Robinson for Vince Carter? That could REALLY BALANCE the roster.

(https://i.pinimg.com/236x/04/d4/69/04d469fdd960f16d01ac880f1870bb37--funny-gym-hilarious-memes.jpg)

(https://www.profitf.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Funny-forex-pictures-from-profitf-3.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 02, 2020, 02:05:39 AM
We have to keep running that play where we get the opposing center to kick their leading scorer in the head. It really helps our D down the stretch.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 02, 2020, 02:08:38 AM
Nobody called Randle a bum.   But he has flaws,  which I dont think he can cure.

Looks like MaMo led the way 4Q.

Wish I saw the game.   More exciting if we didn't just lose 2 against weaker teams.

Looks like my man The Frog didn't get much done.   And we got rusty Noladeepthreat.  Weird low scoring win.   Not like Kind are good at D ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 02, 2020, 02:15:27 AM
KIDD
SCURRY
Mo Cheeks
Michael Ray
Strickland
 
Cousy
Westbrook
Andre Miller?
Rondo?

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 02, 2020, 02:25:41 AM
51   12
48   10
36   11
50   13
47   8
61   10

Hey, I got an idea. Let's trade for that Lillard fellah.

Yeah, yeah, that's the ticket. That would work. Just, you know, give Portland a couple of our young studs and a few of our wily vets. Problem solved. You're welcome.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 02, 2020, 03:34:14 AM
Lillard is definitely out of range.

Might take a shot at D’Angelo. It would make Kiid’s day, but you got to give to get...

http://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7280385 (http://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7280385)

Start with a first rounder in each of the years we have two from Dallas, the higher one year and the lower the other with GS choosing before the first year’s lottery or with a specific number under which if the lower pick falls we keep it in the first year taking the worse pick two years later on.

We send Randle, Gibson, and Frank

We get Russell and Spellman

Mitch Portis
Morris Spellman Wooten
Barrett Knox Iggy
Bullock Dotson Ellington Trier
Russell Payton Smith

The Warriors would have

Green Looney Smiley
Randle Chriss Gibson
Burkes Paschall GRIII
*Klay Evans Lee
*Curry Frank Poole Bowman

They could work a buyout with Taj who could jump into the playoffs on a minimum deal somewhere.

Who says no?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 02, 2020, 03:35:23 AM
Chris Paul
Isaiah
Guy Rodgers (?)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 02, 2020, 03:43:09 AM
That's a fair deal without any picks involved.  Though I'd suspect they'd prefer Morris.

Spellmans mom was at some trumped up Blacks For Racists rally recently . . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on February 02, 2020, 08:35:24 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 02, 2020, 03:43:09 AM
That's a fair deal without any picks involved.  Though I'd suspect they'd prefer Morris.

Spellmans mom was at some trumped up Blacks For Racists rally recently . . .

Yeah no need for picks there.

But it ain't happening anyway.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 02, 2020, 09:08:10 AM
GSW could use Taj.   Loon is their only C and he seems constantly dinged up.   Also Taj a good mentor for Looney.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 02, 2020, 12:51:06 PM
Nobody called Randle a bum.   But he has flaws,  which I dont think he can cure.


Easy now, Hubie Brown

IMPROVE UPON is what we are looking for.

I certainly think shot selection improves for Julius as we add to the cast in coming years.

Julius is a funny combo of strong-minded scorer and willing passer.  "Give it and get it back."  Coaching cue alert.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 02, 2020, 12:51:52 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 02, 2020, 09:08:10 AM
GSW could use Taj.   Loon is their only C and he seems constantly dinged up.   Also Taj a good mentor for Looney.

They still have Chriss, right?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 02, 2020, 12:56:25 PM
Players named thus far for QUIZ (8+ assists career)

Magic
Stockton
Paul
Isiah
------

all top 5

Kidd
Nash
Westbrook
Rondo
---------
8-11


Looking for 7 more
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 02, 2020, 01:00:21 PM
Players mentioned who have 7+


Michael Ray
Strickland
LeBron
Mark Jax (7.97)
Cousy
Rodgers
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 02, 2020, 01:07:22 PM
Missing one player from the 60s/70s
Two from the 70s/80s

One was a rook in '87
One in '89
One in '05
and one in 2010

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 02, 2020, 01:09:35 PM
Start with a first rounder in each of the years we have two from Dallas, the higher one year and the lower the other with GS choosing before the first year’s lottery or with a specific number under which if the lower pick falls we keep it in the first year taking the worse pick two years later on.

We send Randle, Gibson, and Frank

We get Russell and Spellman



Nah.  Not doing it.

It's a scorer for scorer deal.  We need to add to the scorer we have.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 02, 2020, 01:11:18 PM
You got over Russell pretty quickly.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 02, 2020, 05:07:20 PM
Here’s a different direction, based on reports of the wolves being interested in Smith

http://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7280600 (http://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7280600)

Gorgui Dieng and Keita Bates-Diop for DSJ and Bobby Portis.

We get the better young prospect, they get a back of rotation big with a team option instead of a guaranteed second year.

Dieng is more of a center than Taj with a better 3 stroke

Dieng Robinson
Randle Gibson Knox
Morris Bates-Diop Iggy
Barrett Bullock Dotson Ellington
Payton Frank Trier
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 02, 2020, 06:58:59 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 02, 2020, 01:11:18 PM
You got over Russell pretty quickly.

I'd take him for expirings and picks
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 02, 2020, 07:04:57 PM
Does Minnesota want to get out from under Gieng's 17 mil for next year?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 02, 2020, 07:08:07 PM
I'd do Wiggins for Bobby, Dennis and Wayne E
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 02, 2020, 07:30:13 PM
Minny definitely wants to get rid of Diengs salary.

KBD is interesting.

Since they reportedly want to move Covington,  and keep Wiggy,  I'd make a play for him.

Sean Davenney had some deal where Wolves got Knix (Franc,  Trier,  Portis,  I think it was)  and Lakes got Cov,  and we got a Lakes 1st and Dieng.   I'd rather deal with Minny direct,  get Covington and Dieng.  Give them say Portis and Randle. Or whatever.  Toss in Jr. Smith if they like him.
 Devanneys deal Mini got too little.  And we'd help the Lakes get the best player.  And our return was iffy.   Good for the Lakes for sure.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 02, 2020, 07:35:19 PM
Hell, I'd do that Uncle Wiggy trade too,  and I don't want him.   Bad deal for Minn.   And I think they are glad their commitment to Wighat is finally paying off. 

I think they should Sell High on Wiggy,  but reportedly its solid 2way Covington they have on offer.

Minny botched up with Diengs contract and thinking Teague was an answer.  I think they got lucky Wig has started playing up to his contract (sort of).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 02, 2020, 07:57:36 PM
I think Gieng's a good player.  Added three ball this year

Career high PER last year and this year he is matching it.

Tough to say the contract was bad.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 02, 2020, 07:59:10 PM
Wolves asked Sixers for Thybulle and a #1 in exchange for Covington.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 02, 2020, 08:00:15 PM
Watched 1Q of Indy game.   Pacecars looked a bit slowish.  But mostly ran their offense okay,  just missed a ton of good looks.

As the 1Q was winding down,  Clyde said they looked tight,  got mostly open shots and just weren't making them.   Which is what I saw too, rather than any Knick defensive juggernaut.   

Indy did not get fast breaks,  but I suspect they are a slowish team for the most part.   One late 1Q fast break,  Dot just wrapped up Holiday,  who then missed both FTs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 02, 2020, 08:02:40 PM
Sources also say the Wolves are happy to keep Covington and make him a part of the vision for next season, but everybody outside of Towns is available in a trade. Or at least the Wolves are willing to take those trade calls. Their priority is setting up more roster flexibility for acquiring bigger names, and finding a playmaker who meshes perfectly with setting up Towns


https://hoopshype.com/storyline/robert-covington-trade/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 02, 2020, 08:08:53 PM
As the 1Q was winding down,  Clyde said they looked tight,  got mostly open shots and just weren't making them.   Which is what I saw too, rather than any Knick defensive juggernaut.   


I thought the key was not allowing penetration and only allowing one shot (Brogdon really a 2)

Pacers made second Q run when McConnell became shifty.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 02, 2020, 08:21:24 PM
If Dieng were valuable he'd be playing more than 17 minutes a game.  Which is more than last years 13 and the year before 16.  Basically $1M per minute.

There is no way Dieng was worth $16M per for 4 years.   You just don't pay a backup C that much, let alone a low impact one like Dieng.  His value was maybe half that.

Interesting that he's doing all right shooting 3's this year.   But from what I've seen its almost exclusively corner 3's,  which isn't ideal for your C, for getting back on D.

Mini has long overpaid to retain their own guys.  Wiggy and Dieng just recent examples of bad homer contracts.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 02, 2020, 08:28:15 PM
Indy's G's weren't getting into the paint 1Q, but their Bigs were on PnR's.  Bitadze,  Sabonis, MyTurn just blew many good opps.

Taj played good D on an early Sabonis postup.   Mitch took a charge on a MyTurn deep roll.   But other than that,  it was just missed Indy shots. 

Knix did good board work, especially Randle (9 1Q boards I believe).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 02, 2020, 08:40:20 PM
For 2020-21

Covington Towns, Wiggins, Culver, [Cole Anthony], Dieng, Layman (yeah, they miss him), Okogie, Bates-Diop

Not a bad team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 02, 2020, 08:44:18 PM
Minny reportedly interested in Tangelo and Aaron Gordon.   A nice trade idea (not mine):
Gordon + Quinn Cook to Minny ;
Kuzma + Dieng to Orl ;
 Covington + Vonleh to Lakes.

I'd rate it as another fail for Minny, but everybody gets something they want.  Nice 3 way concoction.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 02, 2020, 09:15:25 PM
Wait - who coaches Minny now?

Dieng played 26 minutes per over 15 games, all starts - and they went 5-10

Then he was taken out of starting lineup and they have gone 0-8, Dieng playing 13 minutes and shooting 43/41/100 for the 8.
Title: Trade dread line
Post by: Kam on February 02, 2020, 11:34:35 PM
I predict we make no moves.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 03, 2020, 03:18:29 AM
Dieng started when KAT was kaput.   There D was much better with Dieng in and KAT out. I'm assuming KAT and Dieng dont play together since neither wants to guard the perimeter.

Minny needs to figure out their lineup.
Too bad Knix don't have the assets to make a major deal for KAT . . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 03, 2020, 08:09:57 AM
Yeah, thanks - you are right -so Dieng not playing isnt a production thing.

Since they are losing I would like to see some twin towers.....see how that works

Wiggy at the 2 Culver off the bench.......

or if they did move Covington for the extreme value they are asking (player and a #1 or 2 #1s)

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 03, 2020, 08:11:59 AM
Do we want Dieng at 17 - I guess - is my question.  Just a one year commitment.  And could use him in a deal next winter.

I'd keep the cap space on this one, though I like this player a little.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 03, 2020, 10:26:56 AM
Per rumors today, Knicks looking at Shroder and Russell
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 03, 2020, 11:31:40 AM
Would much rather Tangelo than OKC's 3rd best PG.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 03, 2020, 11:50:16 AM
15.5 for Denis or 8 mil for Elfrid?  Each for just one year.

Likely not enough of a gap in production to give up much in assets - though I do think in running the Knicks Shroder could hit another gear.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 03, 2020, 11:51:49 AM
Happy to see MONK is another target
Title: In the not wholly unrelated category
Post by: Kam on February 03, 2020, 03:21:58 PM
CP3 came to OKC  -->  Schroder has a career year

Been what i've been saying how a guy like that can only help the next gen.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 03, 2020, 03:46:59 PM
Hawks are after Capela. Houston wants working wings.

Jabari Parker and Deandre Hunter for Clint Capela.

Leaves the Hawks with Reddish and Huerter as primary wings, but gets them Collins and Capela upfront.

Stache gets two guys he can plug in 3-5, one scorer-rebounder one disciplined defender. Houston wants to go small... but not too small.
Title: Re: Trade dread line
Post by: chipstern on February 03, 2020, 04:19:57 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 02, 2020, 11:34:35 PM
I predict we make no moves.

Sounds plausible.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 03, 2020, 08:00:19 PM
19-7 for Love

ho-hum

still first half

How's Garland doing?

Yeah, pretty....pretty....good.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 03, 2020, 08:01:31 PM
Philly-Miami tonight - followed by Spurs-Clippers

NBATV
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 03, 2020, 08:02:45 PM
Damn - dumped Hardaway in fantasy (gimpy) - and he gives me a 14-3-2 first half tonight

Dallas staying with KP at center, WCS off the bench - at least for now
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 03, 2020, 08:50:18 PM
OK, so Knicks give up Smith and Randle to get Rozier...maybe Monk.

Rumored
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 03, 2020, 09:20:28 PM
Frank outstanding in the last 3 minutes of the game — that's the kind of finish I've been waiting for.

Despite limited playing time, he's showing some real signs the last couple of weeks.

BTW, I think there's absolutely no fucking way the Knicks stand pat in the coming days. In their position, they have to make trades.

Title: Nice win
Post by: Kam on February 03, 2020, 09:44:40 PM
No trades!
Title: ELf
Post by: Kam on February 03, 2020, 09:45:33 PM
Triple/double!

A pro.  He's consistent.  I like him.  Keep him.
Title: DSJ
Post by: Kam on February 03, 2020, 09:46:02 PM
Played great.  Selling now would be selling low. Keep  him.
Title: Morris
Post by: Kam on February 03, 2020, 09:46:27 PM
A closer.  Can't trade that. Keep.
Title: Frank
Post by: Kam on February 03, 2020, 09:48:33 PM
Clutch shooting lately.  Can't trade Big shot Frank who seems to relish in his backup role.
Title: Knox
Post by: Kam on February 03, 2020, 09:50:18 PM
Is finding ways to contribute aside from scoring.  Still too much raw talent to punt at this point.
Title: Dotson
Post by: Kam on February 03, 2020, 09:51:25 PM
Shooting lights out of late and always brings it every game. Keep that.
Title: No trades
Post by: Kam on February 03, 2020, 09:52:25 PM
We're starting to cook.
Title: Re: No trades
Post by: carlos123 on February 03, 2020, 10:01:16 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 03, 2020, 09:52:25 PM
We're starting to cook.

Hey Kamster, for once I agree completely with all of your last 8 posts. Well maybe not so much on Knox.

I would add keep Mike Miller. He knows how to coach. And he don't want to trade Morris either.

Keep up your streak Kamster. Me and Enes appreciate that.
Title: Re: No trades
Post by: Kam on February 03, 2020, 10:02:29 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 03, 2020, 10:01:16 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 03, 2020, 09:52:25 PM
We're starting to cook.

Hey Kamster, for once I agree completely with all of your last 8 posts. Well maybe not so much on Knox.

I would add keep Mike Miller. He knows how to coach. And he don't want to trade Morris either.

Keep up your streak Kamster. Me and Enes appreciate that.

I love me some Miller time. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 03, 2020, 11:06:21 PM
Well...

verdict seems to be in on Morris

Knicks will keep him and give him (hopefully) a 3-year deal.

52-58 mil, I would expect
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on February 03, 2020, 11:25:10 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 03, 2020, 11:06:21 PM
Well...

verdict seems to be in on Morris

Knicks will keep him and give him (hopefully) a 3-year deal.

52-58 mil, I would expect

Good.  He's earned it.  The fans have earned it.  Crazy to trade him unless the offer is outstanding.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 04, 2020, 01:05:20 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 03, 2020, 08:50:18 PM
OK, so Knicks give up Smith and Randle to get Rozier...maybe Monk.
Rumored

So Randle can be their new PG?   Makes sense.

They probably do want to move on from Monk...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 04, 2020, 01:27:59 AM
Morris is going to be looking for a 4 year deal.   If a playoff team offers such,  and we lowball him with 3, he's likely gone (even if we match).   I guess we're counting on good teams not having cap space.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 04, 2020, 01:29:27 AM
Looks like a real defensive battle with CLE . . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 04, 2020, 04:32:30 AM
Cleveland manned their backcourt with small children and an out of shape Mathew Dellavdova. Smallish grain of salt please. But yeah, that was good.

I’m fully behind keeping Miller. We need a coach to do just what this guy is doing and has consistently done for us even back in the GLeague.

I’d be happy if there are no trades, and I’m still waiting for a chance to see Wooten in the show.

That said, there are permutations of rumored deals I’d be down with.

Portis, Knox, Smith Jr., a Dallas first, and a second for Russell and Spellman. It means we don’t have to draft a guard and can look at some of this draft’s talented defensive bigs or wings.

DLo Payton Frank
Barrett Bullock Dotson

Gives you a nice backcourt going forward, a good talent base if everyone can keep making strides.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 04, 2020, 07:47:22 AM
For that, GSW would be much better off keeping Tangelo.  Or finding a better deal.

The Wars aren't your standard bad team looking for prospects. Next year they'll have a core of Scurry-Klay-Dray.
They'll be looking to add defenders, shooters and consistent players around their high-level vets. Portis,  Knox,  Jr.  Smith are chumps for now in those regards.

GSW could use Morris,  Mitch,  Taj -- maybe Elf or Dot.  Morris,  Taj,  Elf could get you Tangelo and Spellman/Chriss.
I'd do it.  I think.   GSW gets a legit starter and two useful role players.  Knix get a scoring G,  who can hopefully become the PG we need. I would have liked WCS thrown in if they hadn't thrown him away already.

I believe Randle & Tangelo played one or two years together in Lakeland.  Tangelo - Dot - RJB - Randle - Mitch.
Franc - Trier - Knox.  + High draft pick.  + FA.
Okay,  not too great, but we'd double our count of legit starters.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 04, 2020, 08:16:51 AM
They probably do want to move on from Monk...


Well, no - he is an asset.  Knicks brought up the interest.

Smith would be the point.  Randle the stud.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 04, 2020, 08:18:36 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 04, 2020, 01:27:59 AM
Morris is going to be looking for a 4 year deal.   If a playoff team offers such,  and we lowball him with 3, he's likely gone (even if we match).   

I think he stays if we match.  Leaves grudgingly if we don't.
If we want to be real safe we just give the 4.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 04, 2020, 08:23:46 AM
GSW could use Morris,  Mitch,  Taj -- maybe Elf or Dot.  Morris,  Taj,  Elf could get you Tangelo and Spellman/Chriss.


Warriors want multiple #1s.  Would they take a protected Knicks 2021 #1, a Dallas 1, Payton and filler for Russell?  Don't know - but that would be closer to the price.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 04, 2020, 08:34:51 AM
https://nypost.com/2020/02/03/knicks-interested-in-dangelo-russell-as-nba-trade-deadline-nears/

Payton will be a free agent and, despite his triple-double in Cleveland in which he attacked the paint with abandon, hasn’t done enough to warrant being the Knicks’ starter for years to come.



What?

Come on, NY Post.  Elfrid has a team option.
Title: BS
Post by: Kam on February 04, 2020, 08:51:09 AM
if Frank was putting up stat lines like Payton has been doing we'd be doing cartwheels.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 04, 2020, 09:26:43 AM
I'd think GSW would prefer getting good players rather than picks.

But yeah if all you're offering is Portis and not much, they'd certainly want picks to even consider it.

People here wouldn't cash in Morris to get Tangelo?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 04, 2020, 09:29:59 AM
No.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on February 04, 2020, 09:33:41 AM
I can't get past why Russell is called "Tangelo".
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 04, 2020, 09:45:49 AM
Jeez,  Payton shooting 22% on 3's and 49% FT.   People would be hanging Franc in effigy if he shot that poorly...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 04, 2020, 09:50:45 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 04, 2020, 09:45:49 AM
Jeez,  Payton shooting 22% on 3's and 49% FT.   People would be hanging Franc in effigy if he shot that poorly...

He just got a triple double.  Go try to find a single double for Frank. I'll wait.
Title: Payton gets no respect
Post by: Kam on February 04, 2020, 09:52:53 AM
I don't know what some of ya'll are watching.  Payton is a steady rudder.  Good orchestrator.  Gets into the paint. Gets assists.  Yeah he can't shoot but if he could he'd be the perfect pg.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 04, 2020, 09:57:26 AM
Elf is a solid backup PG.   But his shot is awful.   He had a pair of wide open 3's in the Ind game and missed both badly (I think both were 3's).

Its not very effective when the opponents  can go under every screen.  Elf schooled some pups on a crap team.   woo&hoo.

He's a journeyman,  best as a backup.   Unfortunately, he's the best PG we have. Which is reflected in our record.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 04, 2020, 10:08:57 AM
He missed 17 games!  We'd have 20 wins maybe more and be knocking on the playoff door.  But you want him out.
MaMo is our first closer in forever.  But you want him out too.
You want young scrubs like Chriss and Stein.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 04, 2020, 10:22:16 AM
No.   I'd rather keep Morris and move Randle.   But Morris is older,  more desirable to playoff teams,  and unsigned.

Chriss and WCS are just throw-ins who could be useful and we could take a look at.

We need a starting caliber PG.   Elf is a stopgap.  Tangelo has flaws, but at least can fill it up and is pretty young.

I've been trying for Chris Paul or Dinwiddie.   I could settle for Tanngelo if it doesn't cost too much.   If GSW would take a Randle package,  that'd be great. But Morris seems like more their kind of player.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 04, 2020, 10:34:16 AM
We just had a 4-11 January with Elf averaging 30 mins a night . . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on February 04, 2020, 10:46:51 AM
On DLo...

Pass.

He isn't the greatest at creating for his teammates based on assist ratio and as a scoring guard who's marauding as a point, and I'm not convinced he's worth it.

I get that the draft is iffy this year, but I also heard on Knicks Film School that there have been very few point guards on highly successful teams in the past 10 years who have been high percentage of salary cap. There are really few PG's who've led teams to success who aren't Steph Curry.

Forget about just immediately following the trade, the reality is he's being paid quite a lot and would be the highest paid in the near future.

It's too much to pay a player that's not convincing as a real lead player on a good team.

How are the Warriors doing again? Oh right. The Nets had other pieces as can be evidenced by how they are doing this year without KD and with/without Kyrie.

It rings too similar to Marbury.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 04, 2020, 10:51:40 AM
Quote from: PrezIke on February 04, 2020, 10:46:51 AM
On DLo...

Pass.

It's too much to pay a player that's not convincing as a real lead player on a good team.


Exactly!  What's the Warriors january record bo?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on February 04, 2020, 10:57:10 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 04, 2020, 09:57:26 AM
Elf is a solid backup PG.   But his shot is awful.   He had a pair of wide open 3's in the Ind game and missed both badly (I think both were 3's).

Its not very effective when the opponents  can go under every screen.  Elf schooled some pups on a crap team.   woo&hoo.

He's a journeyman,  best as a backup.   Unfortunately, he's the best PG we have. Which is reflected in our record.

He would be one of the better backups in the league and if somehow we had a better option ahead I'd be more than fine with keeping him.
Title: Re: BS
Post by: PrezIke on February 04, 2020, 10:57:53 AM
Quote from: Kam on February 04, 2020, 08:51:09 AM
if Frank was putting up stat lines like Payton has been doing we'd be doing cartwheels.

lol

The Frank, The Myth, The Legend

The latest Knick fan untradable teflon don
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 04, 2020, 11:06:05 AM
For the most part, they've played a bunch of complete nobodies all year. 

I'm not a fan of Tangelo.   He's sloppy and more of a combo G.   But he is shooting 38% on high volume 3's.   We need shooters and scorers.  He'd turbocharge our offense.   

Just turning 24 this month.  Again,  not a fave of mine but an upgrade. 
Title: Re: BS
Post by: bodiddley on February 04, 2020, 11:10:23 AM
Quote from: PrezIke on February 04, 2020, 10:57:53 AM
The Frank, The Myth, The Legend

The Frenchise!

(I love the preposterous nicknames on basketballref.com)
Title: Silly names
Post by: carlos123 on February 04, 2020, 11:31:45 AM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on February 04, 2020, 09:33:41 AM
I can't get past why Russell is called "Tangelo".

Ask BoZ. 😳
Title: Mills
Post by: chipstern on February 04, 2020, 12:18:00 PM
F
I
R
E
D
Title: Re: Mills
Post by: carlos123 on February 04, 2020, 12:41:25 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 04, 2020, 12:18:00 PM
F
I
R
E
D

Ujiri on his way? 👏👏👏
Title: Re: Mills
Post by: Kam on February 04, 2020, 12:41:49 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 04, 2020, 12:18:00 PM
F
I
R
E
D

A return to competent management!   Mills sucked at his job but had a skill for keeping it.  He's gone! 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 04, 2020, 12:55:56 PM
 I’d be glad, except now it’s rumored we’re looking to trade draft picks, multiple picks, for a front office person. That would be infinitely dumb and I hope it doesn’t happen.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 04, 2020, 01:02:43 PM
BOOOOOOOOOYAH!


** the fans chanting "sell the team" got this done — much love.


***I would also like to extend my heartfelt thanks to that bozo-ass used car salesman named Fizdale. Without his truly SPECTACULAR efforts in service of losing over a season and a quarter, we might have had to wade through a third decade of failure before enjoying this moment.

**** Can't believe he lost his job after all that outworking and outthinking, lol, lol, lol...
Title: Short-term`
Post by: Kam on February 04, 2020, 01:06:08 PM
Dolan has increased the Knicks leverage in trades.   
If you thought you had a deal on the table working with Mills on Knicks compensation....
think again!

I think this augers well for my "No trades" mantra.

Mills was going to trade everybody for 2nd round picks to save his ass.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 04, 2020, 01:14:08 PM
People here wouldn't cash in Morris to get Tangelo?


Why do Warriors do this?  Maybe with 2 #1s....
Title: Picks for FO?
Post by: carlos123 on February 04, 2020, 01:20:27 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 04, 2020, 12:55:56 PM
I’d be glad, except now it’s rumored we’re looking to trade draft picks, multiple picks, for a front office person. That would be infinitely dumb and I hope it doesn’t happen.

Now you're scaring me.
Jimmy, if you want Ujiri, JUST WAIIIIIIIT.
If you really, really want to replace Mills right away, Allan Houston is right there.

Like the Kamster said, NO TRADES!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 04, 2020, 01:36:02 PM
What are you scared of, Carlos?  Mitch tossed into a Rozier deal?

Mitch, Bobby, Wayne, Dennis for Terry and Malik.
Title: Scared
Post by: carlos123 on February 04, 2020, 01:46:55 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 04, 2020, 01:36:02 PM
What are you scared of, Carlos?  Mitch tossed into a Rozier deal?

Mitch, Bobby, Wayne, Dennis for Terry and Malik.

Scared of what Dolan could do, that is...
Scare #1) 5 #1 picks to Toronto for the right to talk to Ujiri.
Scare #2) Morris & 2 #1s to the Warriors for D'Angelo.
Scare #3) What you said

etc.

etc.

...................................................
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 04, 2020, 01:49:45 PM
I get that the draft is iffy this year, but I also heard on Knicks Film School that there have been very few point guards on highly successful teams in the past 10 years who have been high percentage of salary cap. There are really few PG's who've led teams to success who aren't Steph Curry.


Kyle Lowry made 31 mil last year -------- NBA champ.
Title: Re: Scared
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 04, 2020, 01:50:38 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 04, 2020, 01:46:55 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 04, 2020, 01:36:02 PM
What are you scared of, Carlos?  Mitch tossed into a Rozier deal?

Mitch, Bobby, Wayne, Dennis for Terry and Malik.

Scared of what Dolan could do, that is...
Scare #1) 5 #1 picks to Toronto for the right to talk to Ujiri.
Scare #2) Morris & 2 #1s to the Warriors for D'Angelo.
Scare #3) What you said

etc.

etc.

...................................................

Knicks aren't dealing their 2020 #1.  Already been said.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 04, 2020, 01:52:28 PM
Mill's departure feels awfully good.

Finally a shred of accountability.

What's coming next?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 04, 2020, 01:54:28 PM
Re:  picks

Celtics now in a position of "what the hell do we do with all of them?"

Talking about giving 2 picks for 30 games + playoffs of Bertans.

Danny A just called his team "maybe a bit too young"

Yeah, that happens plenty in this league.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 04, 2020, 02:03:31 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 04, 2020, 01:52:28 PM
Mill's departure feels awfully good.

Finally a shred of accountability.

What's coming next?

But the timing is weird, right? Just before the trade deadline?

What does that suggest?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 04, 2020, 02:05:26 PM
http://mobile.twitter.com/TheSteinLine/status/1224756723681882113?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1224756723681882113&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fhoopshype.com%2Frumors%2F (http://mobile.twitter.com/TheSteinLine/status/1224756723681882113?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1224756723681882113&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fhoopshype.com%2Frumors%2F)

According to this Statement, Mills is separated from the Knicks so he can head up MSG sports business when it’s broken off from the larger company. Still, it removes him from basketball decisions.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 04, 2020, 02:14:42 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 04, 2020, 02:03:31 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 04, 2020, 01:52:28 PM
Mill's departure feels awfully good.

Finally a shred of accountability.

What's coming next?

But the timing is weird, right? Just before the trade deadline?

What does that suggest?

Ed Tapscott was allowed to draft a guy, then was fired. right?

And this is part of our ridiculous history...

So why - if you have decided to move on from Mills - allow him first to move assets?

The timing seems right.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 04, 2020, 02:17:50 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 04, 2020, 12:55:56 PM
I’d be glad, except now it’s rumored we’re looking to trade draft picks, multiple picks, for a front office person. That would be infinitely dumb and I hope it doesn’t happen.

Remember this when you throw your bowl of Cheerios over the next GM's moves
Title: Re: Mills
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 04, 2020, 02:19:36 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 04, 2020, 12:41:49 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 04, 2020, 12:18:00 PM
F
I
R
E
D

A return to competent management!   Mills sucked at his job but had a skill for keeping it.  He's gone!

Too late - Kupchak is in Charlotte

Who aside from Usiri do you have in mind?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on February 04, 2020, 02:21:08 PM
You've always told us Divac is a genius.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 04, 2020, 02:22:07 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 04, 2020, 02:03:31 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 04, 2020, 01:52:28 PM
Mill's departure feels awfully good.

Finally a shred of accountability.

What's coming next?

But the timing is weird, right? Just before the trade deadline?

What does that suggest?

I think for now it suggests Scott Perry is at the wheel - but I am guessing that all trades - if not before - go through Dolan for the rubber stamp.

So we will see in the next few days how much Jimmy knows about hoops.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 04, 2020, 02:24:09 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on February 04, 2020, 02:21:08 PM
You've always told us Divac is a genius.

I like Vlade, sure.

Bogdonovic hasnt been dealt yet.  Good reason for this.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 04, 2020, 02:55:18 PM
Of course hindsight will tell you Vlade dealt the 10th pick - leaving Donovan Mitchell - then passed on John Collins taking Justin Jackson with one of the picks he received.  Every GM has one of those.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 04, 2020, 02:59:32 PM
Vlade mediocre at best.  On the job training.   Maybe he'll get the hang of it someday.

Mills was just a Dolan lackey.   Good riddance.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 04, 2020, 03:03:32 PM
Updated mock - lots of movement

https://www.nbadraft.net/nba-mock-drafts/

list of picks dealt:

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on February 04, 2020, 03:12:35 PM
Steve Mills fired amid another brutal Knicks season

But why was the inept moron hired?

Oh what a relief!    Every GM in the league out signed him. His last three top draft choices are busts.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 04, 2020, 03:17:54 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 04, 2020, 02:59:32 PM
Vlade mediocre at best.  On the job training.   Maybe he'll get the hang of it someday.



Bagley now hurt.  Hopefully for Vlade that doesnt become his Sam Bowie

But he seems to have hit on D'Aaron Fox and turned an 8th overall (yes, he passed on Sabonis - so did others) into Bogdan and 2 later picks.

This year's top ten pick will be crucial for the beat up Kings, who had been climbing the ladder in recent years (27 up to 39 wins)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 04, 2020, 03:28:57 PM
Frank Isola
@TheFrankIsola
This is quite remarkable. The Knicks love throwing around the word “culture” and what a lot of Knick fans don’t understand is that organization has had consistent culture for two decades now. The core value of that culture is....survival. Not winning. Surviving.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EP8qTW_XUAM2s3_?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Title: Final Straws, Sell the Team, and....
Post by: lesterluv on February 04, 2020, 03:29:12 PM
**** KP's consecutive 35/10+s might just have been a little much to take......

Burn, baby, burn. Who's next?
Title: GM
Post by: carlos123 on February 04, 2020, 03:37:07 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 04, 2020, 02:17:50 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 04, 2020, 12:55:56 PM
I’d be glad, except now it’s rumored we’re looking to trade draft picks, multiple picks, for a front office person. That would be infinitely dumb and I hope it doesn’t happen.

Remember this when you throw your bowl of Cheerios over the next GM's moves

GM still Perry, no?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 04, 2020, 04:11:04 PM
Quote from: luee on February 04, 2020, 03:12:35 PM
Steve Mills fired amid another brutal Knicks season

But why was the inept moron hired?

Oh what a relief!    Every GM in the league out signed him. His last three top draft choices are busts.

I like the Randle, Morris and Payton signings.  Gibson and Taj not bad

Team is minus a star, is all.  The fuckers said no.  What are you gonna do?
Title: Re: GM
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 04, 2020, 04:11:56 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 04, 2020, 03:37:07 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 04, 2020, 02:17:50 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 04, 2020, 12:55:56 PM
I’d be glad, except now it’s rumored we’re looking to trade draft picks, multiple picks, for a front office person. That would be infinitely dumb and I hope it doesn’t happen.

Remember this when you throw your bowl of Cheerios over the next GM's moves

GM still Perry, no?

Yep.  You would have to think it is interim
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 04, 2020, 04:32:43 PM
New rumor - 4 teams

Wolves getting Russell - and also Evan Turner from Hawks.

Wiggins gone

GS also loses Looney.

Covington to Rockets

Draft picks not yet agreed to.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 04, 2020, 04:50:09 PM
So Wiggins joins all that talent in Golden State next year

Wow.
Title: Re: GM
Post by: Kam on February 04, 2020, 04:52:44 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 04, 2020, 04:11:56 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 04, 2020, 03:37:07 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 04, 2020, 02:17:50 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 04, 2020, 12:55:56 PM
I’d be glad, except now it’s rumored we’re looking to trade draft picks, multiple picks, for a front office person. That would be infinitely dumb and I hope it doesn’t happen.

Remember this when you throw your bowl of Cheerios over the next GM's moves

GM still Perry, no?

Yep.  You would have to think it is interim

And yet, he won the power struggle to remain for now
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 04, 2020, 04:53:59 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 04, 2020, 04:32:43 PM
New rumor - 4 teams

Wolves getting Russell - and also Evan Turner from Hawks.

Wiggins gone

GS also loses Looney.

Covington to Rockets

Draft picks not yet agreed to.

Clint Capela to where?  Atlanta?
Title: Kyle Kuzma
Post by: Kam on February 04, 2020, 05:39:20 PM
Exploratory discussions have been held per Shams
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Merciless on February 04, 2020, 06:40:25 PM
Quote from: luee on February 04, 2020, 03:12:35 PM
Steve Mills fired amid another brutal Knicks season

But why was the inept moron hired?

Oh what a relief!    Every GM in the league out signed him. His last three top draft choices are busts.

THANK THE LORD!!!!!! A-Hole was a no-nothing corporate suit. My prayers answered.
Title: Elf gone?
Post by: Kam on February 04, 2020, 10:07:06 PM
Sounds like we are shopping Payton

Quote
Knicks discussing multiple trade options for Elfrid Payton, per sources.
Title: Lakers elf takers?
Post by: Kam on February 04, 2020, 10:07:57 PM
Payton for Kuzma ?
Title: Re: GM
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 04, 2020, 10:30:56 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 04, 2020, 04:52:44 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 04, 2020, 04:11:56 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 04, 2020, 03:37:07 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 04, 2020, 02:17:50 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 04, 2020, 12:55:56 PM
I’d be glad, except now it’s rumored we’re looking to trade draft picks, multiple picks, for a front office person. That would be infinitely dumb and I hope it doesn’t happen.

Remember this when you throw your bowl of Cheerios over the next GM's moves

GM still Perry, no?

Yep.  You would have to think it is interim

And yet, he won the power struggle to remain for now

I guess.

Is that how it was?  I see Mills as a company man.  Has been moved around a lot.   This is no exception.  Perry on the other hand we had to buy from someone.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 04, 2020, 11:09:30 PM
Damn - Lonzo started 3-4 from deep, then missed his last 6

Not as bad as Eric Gordon, who was a tidy 0-12 from deep.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 05, 2020, 01:03:35 AM
 Four team fandango sends Capela to the Hawks and Covington to the Rockets. Nugs involved as well.

Warriors not involved in this one.
Title: By The Way.
Post by: chipstern on February 05, 2020, 01:35:32 AM
Fuck

Malik

Monk
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 05, 2020, 02:38:08 AM
Strange trade.

Hawks get Capella for the Nets 1st rounder they held and Evan Turners contract.   Great for ATL.   They need D,  needed a C, so I'd give them an A.

Not sure why HOU decided to ditch Capela.  Injury concerns?   Salary demands?   Dantmanbee wanted Capella to shoot 3's and he claimed it was against his religion?

Covington a good fit in HOU.  But now their C's are Jordan Bell and greybeard TyC.

DEN should have tried to get Covington.

Word was Minny was trying to get a pick and salary reduction so they could follow up with a trade for Tangelo.
Uncle Wiggy to GSW?
Doesn't seem their kind of guy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 05, 2020, 08:21:15 AM
Yeah - excited to see Clint C away from Houston - see how much O game he has.

With Collins.... we call that possibilities.....

Had Collins not been suspended I wonder if they are ahead of pace for the over (one of my serious misses this year)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 05, 2020, 08:23:40 AM
Uncle Wiggy to GSW?
Doesn't seem their kind of guy

Its about production.

And Wiggy has shown he can pass the rock.

If they rekindle that in the winter - a fine addition indeed.  But first they - as they have said all along - want to see Russell play with Curry.  Could really click.

Not sure there is any contractual way to add Wiggs and keep Russell, but I havent looked too close at that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 05, 2020, 08:29:51 AM
How about if GS is lukewarm on the Russell-Curry partnership entering summer, we use some of our cap space to give GS some relief on the Russell money and that frees up cash for them to add Wiggins.

Maybe we do send a Knox and a pick - and pick up D'Angelo's tab.  Then still have Morris money.

Russell
Barrett (LaMelo)
Morris
Randle
Robinson
(Vernon Carey)
Frank
[Dennis]
[Elfrid]
Iggy
Wooten
-  add  -

() - if drafted
[] - if kept

Not sure there is any way we keep Gibson. Ellington or Portis at their respective #
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 05, 2020, 08:54:44 AM
Re:  HOU

They will often play small - Tucker at C - but

- could still make another deal for size
- have Hartenstein as a possible (21 and 14 averages in short G league stint)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 05, 2020, 09:04:11 AM
Just checked the scroll - and indeed Rockets now have 12.5 mil slot to add a player, either by expanding the deal or just taking someone (Taj, perhaps?)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 05, 2020, 09:34:05 AM
Kenny Smith as GM?  Interesting

https://nypost.com/2020/02/04/small-market-candidates-could-be-enticed-by-knicks-opening/?utm_source=twitter_sitebuttons&utm_medium=site%20buttons&utm_campaign=site%20buttons
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 05, 2020, 12:58:11 PM
Pretty stupid to axe Mills just before the deadline. Signals that the
Knix are disorganized and likely desperate and can still reliably be rolled in a deal.   Much better to just cut Mills out of the trade talks and reassign him officially a month later...

Some talk that now Knicks more willing to trade Morris. Sounds like Mills wanted to resign Morris and Perry of Dolan preferred moving him for value.
Shouldn't be hard to trade Morris if that's the plan.

Reportedly Knix were also looking at moving Randle (to CHA).  Which is good as Knix should be looking at all options.  Reportedly Knox has been talked about as well.   I'd prefer to develop him,  but he still looks 3 years away from becoming an average player,  if he progresses.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 05, 2020, 01:46:59 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 05, 2020, 12:58:11 PM
Pretty stupid to axe Mills just before the deadline. Signals that the
Knix are disorganized and likely desperate and can still reliably be rolled in a deal.   Much better to just cut Mills out of the trade talks and reassign him officially a month later...

Some talk that now Knicks more willing to trade Morris. Sounds like Mills wanted to resign Morris and Perry of Dolan preferred moving him for value.
Shouldn't be hard to trade Morris if that's the plan.

Reportedly Knix were also looking at moving Randle (to CHA).  Which is good as Knix should be looking at all options.  Reportedly Knox has been talked about as well.   I'd prefer to develop him,  but he still looks 3 years away from becoming an average player,  if he progresses.

Christ
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 05, 2020, 02:19:23 PM
Some talk that now Knicks more willing to trade Morris. Sounds like Mills wanted to resign Morris and Perry of Dolan preferred moving him for value.


Heh

Yeah, disagreement is sure grounds for firing
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 05, 2020, 02:30:01 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 05, 2020, 02:19:23 PM
Some talk that now Knicks more willing to trade Morris. Sounds like Mills wanted to resign Morris and Perry of Dolan preferred moving him for value.


Heh

Yeah, disagreement is sure grounds for firing

Mills wanted to trade Randle  (for Rozier)
Perry wanted to trade Morris

Someone got fired.


Another reason not to sign 6 PFs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 05, 2020, 02:55:03 PM
Results of our spending spree are yet unknown
Title: Marcus Morris
Post by: Kam on February 05, 2020, 03:31:48 PM
According to Brian Windhorst the Clippers and the Lakers are competing over Marcus Morris.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 05, 2020, 03:43:12 PM
Both trying to do it without the obvious piece - Kuzma and Shamet

Harkless and scraps vs Caldwell Pope and scraps.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 05, 2020, 04:51:51 PM
Sounds like we’re getting ready to starphuck our way out of Mike Miller. Gee, I wonder how that will turn out...
Title: Goodbye ZO
Post by: Kam on February 05, 2020, 06:46:17 PM
(https://content.sny.tv/assets/images/8/7/4/303401874/cuts/750x422/cut.jpg)
Title: Dream on
Post by: Kam on February 05, 2020, 06:48:16 PM
Quote
The Knicks reportedly offered Kevin Knox, Frank Ntilikina, Allonzo Trier, Bobby Portis, and a 2nd-Round Pick for D’Angelo Russell. The Warriors were not interested as they wanted Mitchell Robinson and a 1st round pick in the trade package.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 05, 2020, 07:46:40 PM
Nice to see Knicks were willing to move on from Frank and Kevin
Title: AI
Post by: Kam on February 05, 2020, 09:07:08 PM
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-trade-deadline-andre-iguodala-dealt-to-heat-agrees-to-2-year-30-million-extension-per-report/ (https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-trade-deadline-andre-iguodala-dealt-to-heat-agrees-to-2-year-30-million-extension-per-report/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 05, 2020, 09:50:25 PM
As I figured - its a NO on Shamet.  Reports that we might add Danny Green for Morris, then reroute Green.  But I figure Danny is one of LeBron's guys - dont see it happening.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 05, 2020, 10:27:00 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 05, 2020, 07:46:40 PM
Nice to see Knicks were willing to move on from Frank and Kevin
Both have underperformed and barely holding down a backup role.   So of course the Knix explore the Sell Low route...

Iggy seems a weird move for MIA.  Go all in on a 36 year old.  Lose Winslow to do so.   Justise is oft-hobbled and not as good as hoped.   But a good haul for Memf.  (they also got a 1st from GSW for taking on Iggy) .  Couldn't NYK have taken on Iggy, gotten a 1st and moved Ig for Winslow or sth else?
So we wouldn't have Portis,  Duke Ell,  or Bullock.  Hmm.

Knix chose not to take on a bad contract and get a pick,  instead loading up on a bunch of journeymen who won't be here next year ...

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 05, 2020, 10:47:43 PM
Dedmon walking to ATL with two 2nd's.  Sacto gets Bavaria and Len.   Pretty good dump for Vlade.   He gets to look at Jabari half a year.  Maybe free up enough $$ to resign Bog.

Not sure why ATL wanted Deadman since they just added Capela.   I guess they wanted the 2nds and still have over $30M to spend this Summer.  Better hope those 2nds are good,  because otherwise its a pretty questionable maneuver.
Title: Say it ain't so
Post by: carlos123 on February 05, 2020, 10:48:49 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 05, 2020, 04:51:51 PM
Sounds like we’re getting ready to starphuck our way out of Mike Miller. Gee, I wonder how that will turn out...

So ... Knicks are moving on from both Miller and Morris?

Just when one thought things couldn't get much worse?

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/43IUbWjTiqXAYhPKslqiSZSLKtMvfiTZDA_QqWwEMktGbPXRedD26NdqZoZLRpJPsg8qrNsVbL5zJaxeuYv_J3daVrZMIp_8x9QBFkTL--glwzWhZrvkROhxjr0gfa3jF3_sTgXhiOOgneEgsfiHCCqRRRN1aaac2zCg3cIBgTof_3xxqkr8hhkb2ffWyAO5bQulK0aDWFRn_-jfumTXlFxdsk0KFY9mhg4f1qq6atVsarQEOLf_6DaxCDBoIremL0ikrQbpY1AOh32b98j0jJPD3oxJNo96SAPGbLYmBNPwXeL2Ye7QrguKQl6rcwjHPASGdAriYY-1pMm3ZMasoQJVLlxvH-_T1bDjTF5cnzhx7GUOQCpLEluxJRhNNsCz1lIkLpqdm6XX7jKFqL5-BMHQd14R3Mhg5BIoBXYsBhxV048c5Nwnp5YedxiUoNprIKqEy3n7G2JESkzMsuyL_ojHbn7Iz-_FUsy0xTAO6Gbq3bdpy7714Qq2_CnhMeu3VijRw0BLZMuvRaAl60o4mD_6R5H9Kc3fcZmXtUDiJAoUdHb6fjLRP0hotVvyNfmtZCw24aSp589YC1DVfVTkam3V6uqtLGGF8gi4ive3xD5tXDU6r9QPtsbw_sIhGK8_a67BOH03AmRdb3GsahieK8nZrf0ggYmEjxzh8mkGWva9bzWAAYNNNoU7G4mCgH4GP_jbx8zXPJpHawpE6Iaw3sMrULNH7LhM0qnWbrzqPoVvk_I=w542-h518-no)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 05, 2020, 10:51:48 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 05, 2020, 10:47:43 PM
Dedmon walking to ATL with two 2nd's.  Sacto gets Bavaria and Len.   Pretty good dump for Vlade.   He gets to look at Jabari half a year.  Maybe free up enough $$ to resign Bog.

Not sure why ATL wanted Deadman since they just added Capela.   I guess they wanted the 2nds and still have over $30M to spend this Summer.  Better hope those 2nds are good,  because otherwise its a pretty questionable maneuver.

Likely see Dedmon move again tomorrow
Title: Morris
Post by: Kam on February 05, 2020, 10:52:20 PM
Just say nope to Caldwell-Pope
Title: Re: Morris
Post by: Kam on February 05, 2020, 10:54:46 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 05, 2020, 10:52:20 PM
Just say nope to Caldwell-Pope

Lakers won't be takers
Take nothing less than Harkless
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 05, 2020, 10:58:10 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 05, 2020, 10:51:48 PM
Likely see Dedmon move again tomorrow

Well, that would make sense.  But that's assuming Deadman has value and somebody wants a pricey backup C.

Caldwell Pope Jones = Courtly.   He's been shooting well with the open looks Levi generates,  but would revert yo passivity on Los Knickeroos.
Title: Re: Morris
Post by: Kam on February 05, 2020, 10:59:07 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 05, 2020, 10:54:46 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 05, 2020, 10:52:20 PM
Just say nope to Caldwell-Pope

Lakers won't be takers
Take nothing less than Harkless

But if it's me
Not letting Morris free
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 05, 2020, 11:08:07 PM
Quote
The two second-rounders Sacramento sends to Atlanta in this Dewayne Dedmon deal came from Houston (2020) and Miami (2021). Kings get Jabari Parker and Alex Len

So those 2nds are likely 45 down.   Meaning low value. I don't get this move by ATL.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 05, 2020, 11:35:19 PM
The Kings signed Trevor Ariza and Dewayne Dedmon in free agency and traded both of them before the All-Star break.

Sure makes it seem Vlade just trying stuff.  At least he's willing to move on from his mistakes.  But those seemed like bad moves at the time.
Title: Aint it a Shame t
Post by: Kam on February 05, 2020, 11:37:17 PM
Quote
Per Sources: the New York Knicks prefer Landry Shamet to Kyle Kuzma in any potential deal for Marcus Morris.

a) Clippers don’t want to give up Shamet, b) it’s really difficult for the Lakers to make the salaries work.
Title: Hey Lakers
Post by: Kam on February 05, 2020, 11:40:16 PM
It's not that difficult.
Title: Just for Chip. .
Post by: bodiddley on February 06, 2020, 12:13:45 AM
A shooter would be nice...

Othersowise,  how about Randle + Jr. Smith for Rozier + Monk.   And Portis + Mitch for Tangelo.  Then Knix resign Morris.


Rozier - Tangelo - RJB - Morris - Taj

Bench = some of Franc/Elf/Dot/Monk/Knox

A bit patchwork.  We'd cash in some Bigs for G's, and finally have a dynamic backcourt.  Lose Mitch, but have to give to get, and Mitch would be more useful on GSW than he would for us.  We'd have shooters and need to fill in with some defenders.  Pick up a defensive C.   Easiest position to fill.
Title: Sixers trade
Post by: Kam on February 06, 2020, 12:50:15 AM
3 second rd picks to GSW for Alec Burks and Glen Robinson III

Maybe now GSW has some picks to send us for an IsoZo.
Title: How you like them apples?
Post by: Kam on February 06, 2020, 01:16:04 AM
In six games without Doncic, Porzingis is averaging 27.2 points, while shooting 48 percent from the field.

In 27 games alongside the MVP candidate, Porzingis is averaging 16 points, while shooting 39 percent.
Title: Hey KP
Post by: Kam on February 06, 2020, 01:18:51 AM
Fuck you very much.

You and Mills.  Snake eating its own tail.  You two dickwads cost us.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 06, 2020, 01:24:52 AM
Those two guys ain't moving the needle for Philadelphia.   But those 2nds are from DAL, TOR, DEN so likely 45 on down.   So didn't cost anything really.
Title: Knicks no fan of Granny Dean
Post by: Kam on February 06, 2020, 01:25:43 AM
Quote
Lakers/Clippers in trade conversations about Knicks' Marcus Morris, sources. NY interested in Kyle Kuzma; would need Danny Green's contract to make work. NY would want to move Green to another team. Clippers willing to part with Mo Harkless, but like Landry Shamet, who NY wants.

To get Kuzma we have to swallow another year on Danny Green at fiiteen million.

Could we parlay Danny Green to the Clips for Harkless?


Kuzma and Harless for Morris is a good move.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 06, 2020, 01:36:38 AM
Mitch & Portis for Tangelo is a steal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 06, 2020, 01:45:12 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 06, 2020, 01:36:38 AM
Mitch & Portis for Tangelo is a steal.

They asked for Mitch and a #1. Portis + to make the salaries match.

Have you seen the salary we'd have to pay D'angelo?

We would be doing them a favor.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 06, 2020, 01:50:37 AM
Pay starters, cheap out on backups if needed.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 06, 2020, 02:03:45 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 06, 2020, 01:50:37 AM
Pay starters, cheap out on backups if needed.

And you're OK giving them Mitch (who just needs a jumper) and a first for a guy signed  for so long?
Golden state, when healthy has to pay D'angelo 30mil to bring him off the bench for three more years after this one.  We would be doing them a huuuuuge favor converting that money into multiple bench pieces.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 06, 2020, 02:10:16 AM
I didn't offer a 1st.   Could throw in Ellington,  Bullox, etc.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 06, 2020, 02:13:28 AM
Tangelo is an asset.   GSW could play him in a 3 G smallball configuration.  Easily have 30 mins a night for him.   Or trade him elsewhere.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 06, 2020, 02:37:13 AM
AN asset?


He's a bench player when Curry and Thompson are healthy.



A bench player they owe another 90 mil.



They should be throwing in picks for us to take him.
Title: No Moe
Post by: chipstern on February 06, 2020, 02:44:56 AM
Fuck

Moe

Harkless
Title: Mo' Marcus
Post by: chipstern on February 06, 2020, 02:46:45 AM
Fuck the Lakers and the Clippers.

Trade MM?

You kidding me?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 06, 2020, 04:25:25 AM
Quote
When the Warriors traded for Russell this past summer, then immediately gave him a four-year, $117 million max contract, debate as to whether that contract made him something of a negative asset immediately ensued.

 Russell is clearly a terrific, All-Star-level offensive player. One Eastern Conference scout told me earlier this season he thinks Russell might be the best pick-and-roll player in the league, and that in the right situation, with the right offensive system and some defensive cover, he could be a great player

Sounds about right to me.   

I have Tangelo as a slightly better player than Randle at a more important position.   He's also a year or two younger and has more chance of developing (I think Randle is what he will be), and easier to build around.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 06, 2020, 06:07:54 AM
Expecting one of Randle/Morris will be dealt.  Reportedly Knix have MaMo offers in hand.  Try to get LAC to relent on Shamet.   Or make a different deal.   LAL, LAC, anyone else with an offer for Morris?
Title: Re: Morris
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 06, 2020, 09:19:45 AM
Quote from: Kam on February 05, 2020, 10:54:46 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 05, 2020, 10:52:20 PM
Just say nope to Caldwell-Pope

Lakers won't be takers
Take nothing less than Harkless

Harkless, Dikembe nephew and a #1.  Sold.
Title: Re: Knicks no fan of Granny Dean
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 06, 2020, 09:27:34 AM
Quote from: Kam on February 06, 2020, 01:25:43 AM
Quote
Lakers/Clippers in trade conversations about Knicks' Marcus Morris, sources. NY interested in Kyle Kuzma; would need Danny Green's contract to make work. NY would want to move Green to another team. Clippers willing to part with Mo Harkless, but like Landry Shamet, who NY wants.

To get Kuzma we have to swallow another year on Danny Green at fiiteen million.

Could we parlay Danny Green to the Clips for Harkless?


Kuzma and Harless for Morris is a good move.

a)  I dont think Lakers give Kuzma and Green for just Morris.  Of course we take it.
b)  not sure they like our other guys, might need a 3rd team like Magic (Smith)
c)  Rerouting Green has to be more than just a salary dump
d)  getting "stuck" with Green isnt the worst thing.  If Morris then re-upped that gives us Danny for a year to tutor RJ (doesnt matter which starts)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 06, 2020, 09:36:14 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 05, 2020, 10:51:48 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 05, 2020, 10:47:43 PM
Dedmon walking to ATL with two 2nd's.  Sacto gets Bavaria and Len.   Pretty good dump for Vlade.   He gets to look at Jabari half a year.  Maybe free up enough $$ to resign Bog.

Not sure why ATL wanted Deadman since they just added Capela.   I guess they wanted the 2nds and still have over $30M to spend this Summer.  Better hope those 2nds are good,  because otherwise its a pretty questionable maneuver.

Likely see Dedmon move again tomorrow

Actually - just realized LEN went in that deal.  So leaves ATL with twin towers to share the spot.  Option to play both with Collins at the three - for limited minutes of course.  And can field offers on both Clint and Duane this summer.  Hawks seem to be operating wisely
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 06, 2020, 09:46:00 AM
Do we want Kevon Looney?  Warriors need to move him to gert under the tax.

Do we want any fringe Sixers players?  Philly needs to move 2 guys to make room for Burks and G Robinson.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 06, 2020, 09:55:14 AM
How about Morris for Josh Richardson, Zhaire Smith and Jonah Bolden?
Title: Leon Rose
Post by: Kam on February 06, 2020, 10:46:51 AM
Quote
Knicks and player agent Leon Rose of CAA are nearing deal to make him new head of basketball ops., league sources tell
-SHAMS
Title: Rose to the Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 06, 2020, 10:48:20 AM
Leon Rose
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Leon Rose (born around 1961[1]) is an attorney and sports agent as well as the President of Basketball Operations for the New York Knicks. He represents a number of prominent NBA players, including Allen Iverson [2] and formerly LeBron James.[3]

Rose grew up in Cherry Hill, New Jersey and attended Cherry Hill High School East, where he played basketball and was later inducted into the school's hall of fame.[4] Rose graduated from Dickinson College, where he played on the basketball team, and earned his law degree at Temple University Beasley School of Law. He was inducted into the Philadelphia Jewish Sports Hall of Fame in 2011.[5]

Rose represented LeBron James from 2005 until 2012, when James left to join a new agency led by Rich Paul, who worked under Rose at CAA.[6] Rose and fellow CAA agent Henry Thomas, who at the time represented the Heat's Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh, worked together to bring the three players together on the Miami Heat in 2010.[6] Rose negotiated a four-year deal for James with Miami.[6] He had previously negotiated a 2006 extension for James with the Cleveland Cavaliers.[6]

Clients
Rose's previous and current clients include:

Carmelo Anthony,[7] forward, Last NBA Team: Portland Trail Blazers[7]
Renaldo Balkman, forward, Last NBA team: New York Knicks, 2010
Andrea Bargnani,[8] forward/center, Last NBA team: Brooklyn Nets
Devin Booker, guard, Phoenix Suns
Omri Casspi, forward, Memphis Grizzlies
Mardy Collins,[8] guard, Last NBA team: Los Angeles Clippers, 2010
Eddy Curry, center, Last NBA team: Dallas Mavericks, 2012
DeSagana Diop,[9] center, Last NBA team: Charlotte Bobcats, 2013
Joel Embiid, center, Philadelphia 76ers
Jonny Flynn, guard, Last NBA team: Portland Trail Blazers, 2010
Richard Hamilton,[9] guard, Retired
Allen Iverson, guard, Retired
Eddie Jones,[9] guard, retired
Aaron McKie, guard, retired
Victor Oladipo, guard, Indiana Pacers
Chris Paul, guard, Oklahoma City Thunder
Dajuan Wagner,[9] guard, Prokom Trefl Sopot
J.R. Smith, guard, Last NBA team: Cleveland Cavaliers, 2018
Rodney Stuckey, guard, Indiana Pacers
Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, forward, Charlotte Hornets
Jonas Valančiūnas, center, Memphis Grizzlies
Kenny "Special K" Soll, Harlem Globetrotters
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on February 06, 2020, 11:17:44 AM
 A rose is  rose is a rose...see if this guy has the balls to stand up to Dolan, clean out the FO, and be deliberate...

Nice how Dolan is in full flavor of the month club - imitates what GS and Lakers do...did he call OK and ask to speak with Presti?  What about Buford.   long shots sure, but worth making a call, maybe he did, would like to know...

also, wonder if the chatter that Calipari (Rose client I believe) rumors will swamp the swamp ....

but at least we're moving on from Princeton guys who have been a disaster
Title: Post Brawl Reaction
Post by: Kam on February 06, 2020, 12:12:08 PM
Funny how Memphis added Jae Crowder to the deal along with Igoudala to Miami.

Not even his own team wanted Crowder anymore.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 06, 2020, 12:15:25 PM
Memphis is cleaning up

Gets rid of the bum Crowder.  Solid vet Solon Hill also in the deal, as Dion Waiters comes with Winslow.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 06, 2020, 12:26:30 PM
People who know what they're talking about have a different opinion ...

In A World Full Of Iggy-Ness, Jae Crowder Has Been A True Class Act For The Memphis Grizzlies (http://nba/grizzlies/news/jae-crowder-has-been-a-class-act-for)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 06, 2020, 12:36:30 PM
What people?  Link broken.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 06, 2020, 12:38:08 PM
Link fixed.
Look in last post.

The Knicks inquired about the Pacers' Aaron Holiday, but there's no indication on how far talks have gone. (Marc Berman
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 06, 2020, 12:45:01 PM
Quote
He's also been the centerpiece of the Grizzlies’ growing chemistry as they've made a surprising playoff push. While teammates were all too eager to say goodbye to Iguodala, who hasn't been around the team since he was traded this summer, Crowder is beloved and respected.
Dillon Brooks said last month he'd like Crowder to stay and Ja Morant called him a big brother and an extra pair of eyes on the court.

www.commercialappeal.com/story/sports/nba/grizzlies/2020/02/05/memphis-grizzlies-jae-crowder-nba-trade-deadline

Title: Yeah, but
Post by: Kam on February 06, 2020, 12:56:17 PM
That was all before he showed his ass at MSG.
Title: Clippers trade
Post by: Kam on February 06, 2020, 12:57:20 PM
Clippers are trading G Derrick Walton Jr., to the Atlanta Hawks for cash, league sources tell ESPN.
Title: DLO traded to Minny for Wiggy
Post by: Kam on February 06, 2020, 01:06:23 PM

Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
·
1m
Golden State has agreed to trade D'Angelo Russell to Minnesota for a deal that includes Andrew Wiggins, a 2021 protected first-round pick and a 2022 second-round pick, league sources tell ESPN. Warriors will send Jacob Evans and Omari Spellman to Timberwolves too.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 06, 2020, 01:07:44 PM
Wiggins to GS. Told ya.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 06, 2020, 01:08:47 PM
Towns very happy
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 06, 2020, 01:42:43 PM
The first article was from yesterday.   Knix acted like fools.   Wouldn't be surprised if MaMo's dumb comments seated Dolan to want to move him.
Title: Shams
Post by: Kam on February 06, 2020, 01:46:27 PM
Quote
Clippers and Knicks are seriously engaged in talks that would send Marcus Morris to the Clippers, league sources tell @TheAthleticNBA @Stadium. Two young players potentially involved to New York: Clippers' Mfiondu Kabengele and Terrence Mann.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 06, 2020, 01:49:23 PM
GSW was asking for Wiggy plus Two 1st Rounders.   Not sure yet what they got. But Tangelo was an asset and Minny happy to have him.

Too bad they don't still have Covington.   That would make a nice trio. Now they have two. stars with poor D.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 06, 2020, 01:52:27 PM
Knix hire a GM on trade deadline day.   And this for a terrible team loaded with expiring contracts.  Classic Knickdom.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 06, 2020, 01:53:59 PM
Months to look for a Morris deal,  the guy is having a locked-in career year,  and that's all the Knix can manage.  Geez.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 06, 2020, 02:00:48 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 06, 2020, 01:53:59 PM
Months to look for a Morris deal,  the guy is having a locked-in career year,  and that's all the Knix can manage.  Geez.

Knicks told Lakers its Kuzma or no deal.   Lakers paused.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 06, 2020, 02:02:31 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 06, 2020, 01:52:27 PM
Knix hire a GM on trade deadline day.   And this for a terrible team loaded with expiring contracts.  Classic Knickdom.

Knicks have a GM.  Perry.  He can handle this.  They hired a President of Ops.  One who has been watching events unfurl probably since the Fiz press conference after ten games at 2-8.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 06, 2020, 02:07:19 PM
These days Perez of Hoops Ops is usually the top exec for most teams.   Mills was above Perry.

Remains to be seen if Rose orPerry makes the decisions going forward.   Seems like Perry is both making our deadline trades and is a dead man walking.   We'll see...

Also, 
Quote
Rose is certainly very well connected, and Shams says William “World Wide Wes” Wesley will also have a role in the front office. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 06, 2020, 02:17:15 PM
It does send us two guys on super cheap first round structured contracts, one versatile big and one versatile guard.

Expand the deal to include JaMichael Green and Dennis Smith and I’m all on board.


Taj Robinson Kapengele
Randle Portis Harkless
Green Knox Dotson Ignas
Barrett Bullock  Mann
Payton Frank

Gives you 20 minutes to find homes for Ellington and Trier (too expensive to pick up option, pending free agent, neither much play)

Next year guaranteed salary spots are

Robinson Kapengele
Randle
Knox Ignas
Barrett Mann
Frank

Green has a player option

Team options on Taj, Portis, Bullock, and Payton.

I’d need a pick thrown in but I don’t think it would be bad for us.

The Rose thing is hilariously Dolan.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 06, 2020, 02:22:55 PM
Deal with Clippers almost done

We get Terrance Mann in addition to what I had said
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 06, 2020, 02:23:46 PM
Lakers totally pulled Kuzma.  I don't blame them
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 06, 2020, 02:25:48 PM
Pick we are getting is Clippers 2020.  Nice.

Sorry, Chip.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 06, 2020, 02:28:10 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 06, 2020, 01:52:27 PM
Knix hire a GM on trade deadline day.   And this for a terrible team loaded with expiring contracts.  Classic Knickdom.

Word around league is these guys have the cred where players will now come more willingly to NY
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 06, 2020, 02:30:49 PM
Quote
With team president Steve Mills fired on Tuesday, teams were under the impression that a deal for Morris could be done. Prior to the firing, any deal for Morris had to blow away the Knicks to get done, with both sides having mutual interest in negotiating a deal in free agency this summer.

Sounds a lot like our front office fiasco cost us, and we wound up with 2 days to get a deal together. We sure didn't get much.   

So how we opening up the roster spots necessary?

I assume the front office turmoil also responsible for not moving Portis,  Elf, Duke, Taj,  etc.

Just a poorly run franchise constantly falling on its face ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 06, 2020, 02:35:54 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 06, 2020, 02:28:10 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 06, 2020, 01:52:27 PM
Knix hire a GM on trade deadline day.   And this for a terrible team loaded with expiring contracts.  Classic Knickdom.

Word around league is these guys have the cred where players will now come more willingly to NY

That was the theory behind Isaiah & Phil as well ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 06, 2020, 02:41:30 PM
Lotta activity.

Rumor Drummond to Cavs for expiring dreck.

James Johnson rerouted to Minny for Dieng. Sounds good for Minny even if Johnson is usually overzealous fouling like crazy and jacking shots.  Every once in a while he has an all star game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 06, 2020, 02:52:03 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 06, 2020, 02:30:49 PM
Quote
With team president Steve Mills fired on Tuesday, teams were under the impression that a deal for Morris could be done. Prior to the firing, any deal for Morris had to blow away the Knicks to get done, with both sides having mutual interest in negotiating a deal in free agency this summer.

Sounds a lot like our front office fiasco cost us, and we wound up with 2 days to get a deal together. We sure didn't get much.   

We got a 2020 1st and a 2021 2nd.  That's not nothing.
Title: Shams the man
Post by: Kam on February 06, 2020, 03:05:07 PM
Shams Charania

Meanwhile, the Knicks have acquired several assets for a player in Morris who was set to be a free agent. Knicks set to have seven-plus first-rounders in next four years in their rebuilding process.

Title: MaMo
Post by: Kam on February 06, 2020, 03:08:18 PM
Sad to lose Morris, but pleased the powers that be, have been, and will be, (Dolan/Perry/Rose) chose a direction, and executed a strategy that -- on PAPER -- moves the Knicks rebuild forward, and strengthens our position going forward with player transactions.

Welcome home, Queens own, Moe Harkless.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on February 06, 2020, 03:08:27 PM
Whose pick tho? My sense is the Clips’
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on February 06, 2020, 03:09:07 PM
We’re gonna swing deals with all these picks. I don’t see it all used for players to keep
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 06, 2020, 03:15:28 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on February 06, 2020, 03:09:07 PM
We’re gonna swing deals with all these picks. I don’t see it all used for players to keep

The "disaffected superstar who wants out" strategy.   

Minnesota hurt that strategy by getting KAT's choice DLO.

What if Embiid and Simmons relationship fractures?

Embiid is/was a Rose client.

Hmmm.....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on February 06, 2020, 03:15:39 PM
Getting draft rights to the wiz 2018 2nd rounder who’s in Europe apparently
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 06, 2020, 03:18:43 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 06, 2020, 02:35:54 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 06, 2020, 02:28:10 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 06, 2020, 01:52:27 PM
Knix hire a GM on trade deadline day.   And this for a terrible team loaded with expiring contracts.  Classic Knickdom.

Word around league is these guys have the cred where players will now come more willingly to NY

That was the theory behind Isaiah & Phil as well ...

There's a difference. 

With Zeke we expected younger players to want to play for him.  But we had no cap space anyway.
With PHIL there wasn't really any young players that wanted to play for him if he wasn't going to coach.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on February 06, 2020, 03:54:47 PM
On hiring Rose:

Can see why you really need someone sooner rather than later. The question mark surrounding this could make a lot of things difficult for the Knicks to be setup for success this summer.

If someone came in in June they'd have no time to settle in and would have to immediately figure out the ins and outs of the organization, draft prospects, free agents, etc. leaving little time to make clearer decisions.

I'm not saying he's the right choice. I'm not sure what to think. I can see some positives and certainly negatives.

Pros:

- Has insights and connections to NBA players' interests/needs that could help better arrange the organization to be setup as more attractive to players
- Has relationships with players/CAA clients/agents that can lead to improving the chance of getting free agents or orchestrating trades for "disgruntled" players
- Not having been an exec of an NBA team could lead to new ideas (maybe he's shared some)

Cons:

- Never an NBA exec which can lead to several problems. One, especially, is knowing as a leader how to run an NBA team well when we've had such an awful way of running things for decades
- Being an agent seems more valuable as a wheeler and dealer with trades and free agents than with the draft and assessing/identifying talent
- Knicks have had a relationship with CAA for some time and it hasn't led to positive results on the court and could smell of a different brand of nepotism. You wonder if this could lead to bloated contracts due to "insider" relationships that could hurt the Knicks cap situation. The media will be wondering about this whenever the Knicks sign a CAA player to a seemingly bloated contract and could cause turmoil and doubt about the legitimacy of the independence of the Knicks FO.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 06, 2020, 04:06:30 PM
I hope we get to give a couple of bloated contracts
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 06, 2020, 04:18:06 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on February 06, 2020, 03:54:47 PM
On hiring Rose:

Cons:

- Never an NBA exec which can lead to several problems. One, especially, is knowing as a leader how to run an NBA team well when we've had such an awful way of running things for decades


Well as an agent he's worked with plenty of NBA execs. Good ones and bad ones.  So he should have a first hand education on the best practices.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 06, 2020, 04:50:09 PM
Where are all the Dolan bashers today?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 06, 2020, 05:23:18 PM
Dolan sucks. Does that really need saying anymore?

Let the Moe Harkless era begin!
Title: Mo Motherfucking Harkless Whoop-dee-damn-doo, lol, lol, lol.
Post by: lesterluv on February 06, 2020, 05:41:31 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 06, 2020, 04:50:09 PM
Where are all the Dolan bashers today?

Right the fuck here, thank you. If think grabbing a so-deep-it's-almost-second-round-first-round draft pick makes up for the worst two decades of sports management in history, you must of damn near finished an ultra-big-gulp sized cup of crazy juice. LMAO.


** oh, maybe you're talking about hiring the guy who saddled us with Fat Eddy? You must be waddling from that cup of drank...

**** Where'd I stash that case of Brass Monkey? The boys are having a party. I want in!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 06, 2020, 05:50:45 PM
Did you really say what you said?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 06, 2020, 05:50:58 PM
You really asked that question?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 06, 2020, 05:51:33 PM
Sometimes walking in here feels like walking into the brain-free zone.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 06, 2020, 05:53:09 PM
Yes, all the Dolan-Bashers are hiding because Dolan just wowed the entire sports world with a ground-breaking, mind-busting, franchise-changing, megadeal for Mo Harkless & an exceedingly late first.


*** all by itself it makes up for Zeke, Bargnani, Fat Eddy, the league's worst 20th century record, DSjr for 30-30-30-10-10-10 Porzingis, the Oakman Expulsion, not getting so much as an ass-sniff from a single top 2019 free agent and unleashing his discography on the world. Can't wait to see what gets wiped out tomorrow.
Title: You Can Come Out Now Dolan Bashers
Post by: lesterluv on February 06, 2020, 05:59:55 PM
it's ok.
don't be scared.
Title: Re: You Can Come Out Now Dolan Bashers
Post by: carlos123 on February 06, 2020, 06:32:41 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on February 06, 2020, 05:59:55 PM
it's ok.
don't be scared.

Thank you Les.

We just gave up our best player for NADA. Who was the genius who engineered THAT?

You my doggie 🐶
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 06, 2020, 06:45:02 PM
So... I will say I like what Dolan has done this week and then every game we lose you will say, "see, he sucks"

Good forum.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 06, 2020, 06:48:36 PM
Look, you want to give mad props to a guy for firing another guy 18 years too late, well go ahead.

After two decades of wasted weeknights, I'll personally need a wee bit more than that & Mo.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 06, 2020, 07:21:46 PM
Well, I was hoping we might find a way to come up with Russell.

And I was hoping we might get more for Morris — or sign him up for a few years.

So this is not my idea of an exciting day. Though I suppose...

It could have been way worse!

(which is probably the pathetic mantra of Knicks fans everywhere)
Title: You had to be prepared for this
Post by: Kam on February 06, 2020, 07:31:24 PM
At least we were sellers at the deadline and have added another FRP to use or deal.

Try to console yourself with the idea that you can re-sign Marcus Morris next season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on February 06, 2020, 07:46:39 PM
In case you had your hopes up...

Dolan says he's not selling

lol
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on February 06, 2020, 07:48:50 PM
Oh and Max Kellerman called all Knick fans idiots and suckers.

What else is new?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on February 06, 2020, 07:53:29 PM
Frank is a +6!!!

Well, so is everyone on the team, but the dude is going to be amazing, just wait.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 06, 2020, 08:14:42 PM
Keep Frank at the 2. I like it.
Title: Elf is good
Post by: Kam on February 06, 2020, 08:51:07 PM
Payton with 6 pts and 5 steals at the half
Title: Wayne Ellington
Post by: Kam on February 06, 2020, 09:48:35 PM
Big three pt makes, turned the game around
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 06, 2020, 09:57:17 PM
Payton with a magnificent game tonight.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 06, 2020, 10:03:04 PM
Very true. Payton, Taj, Randle. Not bad by Bullock & nice return game from Barrett.

Frank did enough defensively to make up for most of his offensive slop. It’s also a new role.

Knox was wow bad and guys were looking him off at the end of the 3rd Q.

Development, one day at a time. We had 3 yutes on the floor together for good stretches tonight now the deadline is passed.

1-0 in the Moe Harkless era!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 06, 2020, 10:30:30 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 06, 2020, 09:57:17 PM
Payton with a magnificent game tonight.

He's a keeper for next year.  Even if we draft a PG.
Title: Elfrid was indeed fine.
Post by: lesterluv on February 06, 2020, 10:34:59 PM
Nice different feel without the two big ball pounders in there, one of 'em had to go, probably the wrong one, but whatever. Certainly not a total trade deadline f'up 'cause we got our two second rounders, and if Morris really loves it here that much he can come back.

I guess Mo will eat into Knox's "development" minutes, but yeah, "wow bad" he was; it is just really hard to imagine him as a contributing NBA player any year soon. Every win in which he plays 15+ minutes is like a double victory cause you've had a helluva lot to overcome. Not sure what you do about that, but keep going and at some point cut your losses.

Speaking of cutting, I was really going to suggest cutting Ellington and then he hit two momentous three-pointers. I still suggest cutting Ellington.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 06, 2020, 10:35:33 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 30, 2020, 01:50:26 AM
Note to Knix: Play fucking better ...

Note to Kam: Just need to go 6-5 and that prediction will be spot on ...

Note to Bo: Could you update us now?
Title: Re: Elfrid was indeed fine.
Post by: Kam on February 06, 2020, 10:43:04 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on February 06, 2020, 10:34:59 PM

Speaking of cutting, I was really going to suggest cutting Ellington and then he hit two momentous three-pointers. I still suggest cutting Ellington.

Randle and all the recent lotto picks will be here.

Definitely don't bring back:
Ellington (Team option), Portis (Team option), Trier (Free Agent)

Consider bringing back unless better options present themselves:
Taj (Team option), Bullock (Bullock), Dotson (Free Agent)

Bring back:
Elfrid (Team option)

That frees up some 24 mil (Wayne and Bobby's options).

Title: Re: You had to be prepared for this
Post by: bodiddley on February 07, 2020, 12:06:26 AM
Quote from: Kam on February 06, 2020, 07:31:24 PM
Try to console yourself with the idea that you can re-sign Marcus Morris next season.
Pretty unlikely stuff. MaMo leaves cold 25W NY for warm 60W LA,  yet he's gonna have such fondness for his interim coach,  mismatched teammates,  James Dolan that he's going to resign with the Knix to finish out his career with Losses.

 Morris has a chance to extend the Clips a round or two,  and as long as they stay healthy should have just guaranteed conference finals with a good shot at the Finals.   For that turboboost, Knix got little. I had been aiming for Simonize and Portland's circa 16 pick.

We were lucky he was having a career, and just coincidentally contract, year.   Tons of good teams needed a shooting tough F too.  And we cashed him in last minute,  with our FO in turmoil, for a decidedly mediocre / low haul.

The only way we resign Morris is to overpay on a 4 year deal deep into his 30's.   Unlikely and would because bad move. This is likely his career year, as he had a greenlight all year,  there were always worse defenders around,  he was focused for his contract year.

I liked how Morris could finish a game,  get off his shot,  hit 3's,  show leadership,  be tough,  not be chumpy on D, and exude Knickness.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 07, 2020, 12:25:38 AM
Quote
The Knicks also will receive the right to swap first-round picks in 2021 with the Clippers (protected through the No. 4 pick), a 2021 second-round pick via Detroit and the Washington draft rights to 2018 second-round pick Issuf Sanon.

Why couldnt we get Jer Robinson?  What happened to Kabengele?

The pick swap option two years out is comical.

So a Mohark rental, a very late 1st (28th or so),  DET's fairly high 2nd.    Circa 36th.

Knick fans always talk themselves into these trades where Knix give up the best player and get a bunch of dreck back.   I recall folks excited about Sam Dalembert,  DeAndretheGiant/Wes/Smith, etc.

We likely just got nothing useful for our best player, who top playoff teams were drooling to add.   Combined with the rare top-exec firing two days before the trade deadline.  Another great week for Dolan!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 07, 2020, 01:15:56 AM
Now RJB is our 2nd highest scorer.

He's also one of our 4 yutes shooting under 40% FG,  along with Knox,  Franc,  Jr.  Smith.

Now we have just two players shooting over 33% on 3's.  Dot & Portis.  None of our starters.

I wonder what our team FT%  is without Morris?

Likely FO confusion cost us making other deals.

Who's our leader now?   Taj?  Elf?  Can Randle show any leadership?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 07, 2020, 01:35:14 AM
Taj did all of Morris’ dirty work, Ellington hit all of his 3’s.

Payton is turning into monster Payton before our eyes.

I think we’ll be ok.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 07, 2020, 01:43:46 AM
Knix have one legit starter.

Elf is inconsistent and mostly shines against teams with weak PG's.

Knix don't have shooters, defenders, quality yute.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 07, 2020, 01:52:04 AM
Cheer up Bo. Somehow we can still win some games.

http://www.theringer.com/nba/2020/2/6/21127528/nba-trade-deadline-grades (http://www.theringer.com/nba/2020/2/6/21127528/nba-trade-deadline-grades)
Title: The Deal
Post by: carlos123 on February 07, 2020, 02:03:44 AM
Our Deal-maker-in-chief and Putin Cheerleader could have made a better deal than this.
😳😭

The day they fire Mike Miller I’m checking out of Knock fandom for good.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 07, 2020, 02:25:08 AM
I dont see how winning an extra 4 or 5 games helps anything.

We mostly need a top 3 pick in weak draft.  We'll have something like a 30% chance of that (note: a totally conjectured figure)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 07, 2020, 03:12:31 AM
We’ll have so much flexibility in this draft between the picks and team option vets, that we should be able to pry out a vet we like and pick up a kid we want to target, or if there are two kids we like enough, stick to that.

I like Mike Miller more than anyone in coaching circles I’ve heard associated with Leon Rose.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 07, 2020, 03:33:44 AM
Forgot to wonder what our 3 point % is without Morris.  We were only making 33% with MaMo lighting it up.

Maybe 31% as a team.   30%?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 07, 2020, 08:25:25 AM
YUSUF SANON!!!


Vs cones, with interview (from 2018)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ii4AbsUafPs
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 07, 2020, 08:28:12 AM
Looks like he got a bit thicker since then

https://www.proballers.com/basketball/player/74259/yusuf-sanon
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on February 07, 2020, 09:30:47 AM
Trading your best player for drek? Not a great start. 44% from 3 will be missed.
Title: Re: You had to be prepared for this
Post by: Kam on February 07, 2020, 10:02:00 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 07, 2020, 12:06:26 AM

 Morris has a chance to extend the Clips a round or two,  and as long as they stay healthy should have just guaranteed conference finals with a good shot at the Finals.   For that turboboost, Knix got little. I had been aiming for Simonize and Portland's circa 16 pick.


How you gonna get a lot for a turboboost of the Clippers by sending him to Portland?
Do you know if Portland even wanted him?  There was zero talk.  You just make stuff up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 07, 2020, 10:05:18 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 07, 2020, 12:25:38 AM

So a Mohark rental, a very late 1st (28th or so),  DET's fairly high 2nd.    Circa 36th.


We likely just got nothing useful for our best player, who top playoff teams were drooling to add.   Combined with the rare top-exec firing two days before the trade deadline.  Another great week for Dolan!

Our best player that you don't even want to re-sign for the 4 years it will take to sign him. You're all over the place.  You love Morris but don't wanna re-sign him this offseason. But you trash the knicks for getting something for a guy you DONT WANT.  Crybaby knicks fan!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 07, 2020, 10:51:50 AM
I'll type slower so you can follow.   Maybe #'s will help you.

1.  I would have traded Randle,  and resigned Morris at the going rate.   Earlier I proposed a 4 year deal starting at $19M and dropping $1M per year.   For an average of $17.5M.   Total 4/$70M.  Around those parameters should get it done.  I'd worry about the 4th year,  and contract year boost,  and sign him to 4 years if that's what it took.  Morris showed toughness,  skill,  leadership,  looked like a Knick.

2.  A POR  deal largely dried up when they added Melo.  And stayed below .500.  But that's the TYPE of haul I was hoping for.   A prospect or otherwise useful piece + a pick closer to 20.  Hark who likely walks and a 28th pick is less value than should have been possible.  Great trade ... for LAC.  Maybe Knix should have decided if we were keeping or moving Morris earlier than 2 days before the deadline.  Also moving Morris a few weeks ago might have netted more.

3.  I think we got another poor return for a talented player (see KZ trade; TyC,  etc.).   I think the FO fiasco hampered us,  and we did another rushed deal (see KZ trade).  The #28 or so pick in a weak draft for a guy in his prime balling.   Alas.

4.   We needed to trade one of Randle/Morris,  and given Morris'  age,  next contract and greater trade value,  it was reasonable to keep the younger uunder-contract Randle. Now need to get him some complementary pieces.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 07, 2020, 11:22:50 AM
You typed 4 points and you contradicted your first point ("I would have traded Randle") with your last point ("it was reasonable to keep Randle".)

Point #2.  Did portland have any interest?  I didn't hear about any deals.  You're gaslighting us.

Point #3.  You don't get premium pieces for a rental.

Back to your first point, if you want to sign Morris for 4yrs/70 guess what... offer that to him this summer.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 07, 2020, 11:59:53 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 07, 2020, 01:52:04 AM
Cheer up Bo. Somehow we can still win some games.

http://www.theringer.com/nba/2020/2/6/21127528/nba-trade-deadline-grades (http://www.theringer.com/nba/2020/2/6/21127528/nba-trade-deadline-grades)

Quote
The Knicks … made a good trade? Moving Morris without taking on future salary and landing a first-round pick in the process was probably the best possible outcome here, even if the pick will land toward the bottom of the first round. The pick swap is more for posterity than anything, as nary a universe exists where the Knicks will draft lower than the Clippers next season. Still, now is not the time to take shots at the Knicks, who have established the lowest possible bar at past deadlines. This is a good return, this is a fair return, and this is the right direction to take.

Grade: B
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 07, 2020, 01:03:45 PM
I disagreed with a lot of the grades in that article.   Writer seemed young and didn't impress me.

Didn't he also give DET a B  after acknowledging they traded their best player for a 2nd rounder. Bravo.

He also gave ATL a D for Capella, with the proviso that Nerlens is cheap.   As though those two are somehow similar. 

I'm impressed how easily knick fans not only reconcile themselves with a bad trade,  but become convinced it was good.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 07, 2020, 01:33:12 PM
Well, yeah. Knick fans have a tendency to do that. And certainly many did with the increasingly ridiculously lopsided KP drop (man was he balling until he got his nose rearranged). And yes, we gave up our best player yet again for what doesn't seem much return for the second straight year. The most basic rule of trade law broken. BUT:

One of 'em had to go. The floor was a cleaner, better, more fluid place for much of the game last night. The perim defense much more solid (at least while Frankie was out there alongside Elf). And there are legit reasons for making a bet on Julius.

Now you gotta stick those picks, or use 'em well. For a change, not crying, though do wish we'd offloaded a few more players.



*** and, oh yes, Moe M'Fn Harkless does play defense and that can never be a bad thing
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 07, 2020, 02:25:48 PM
Iggy reportedly was being traded for Winslow and a roughly #23 pick before the deal was expanded.

That's a better return than MoHark and a circa #28 pick.

I'd say career-year Morris is better than 36 year old Iggy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 07, 2020, 02:34:19 PM
Could be, but Pat Riley knows what he wants and what he wanted was the Ig. Look — around here not getting completely screwed counts as progress.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 07, 2020, 02:41:56 PM
Quote from: luee on February 07, 2020, 09:30:47 AM
Trading your best player for drek? Not a great start. 44% from 3 will be missed.

Possibly only for 30 games.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 07, 2020, 02:45:11 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 07, 2020, 02:25:48 PM
Iggy reportedly was being traded for Winslow and a roughly #23 pick before the deal was expanded.

That's a better return than MoHark and a circa #28 pick.

I'd say career-year Morris is better than 36 year old Iggy.

Miami gets Iguodola for three playoff runs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 07, 2020, 02:58:37 PM
2.  A POR  deal largely dried up when they added Melo.  And stayed below .500.  But that's the TYPE of haul I was hoping for.   A prospect or otherwise useful piece + a pick closer to 20.  Hark who likely walks and a 28th pick is less value than should have been possible.  Great trade ... for LAC.



i am not getting in the middle of your squabble with Kam. But if Clippers fans looked at it as some Knicks fans do, they'd be going nuts.  "What, we trade Robinson AND our pick and don't even get a Morris extension?"

Maybe Knix should have decided if we were keeping or moving Morris earlier than 2 days before the deadline.  Also moving Morris a few weeks ago might have netted more.


It's silly to talk timelines like this.  And how do we know the parameters of Morris's ask on an extension or if we did/didnt try?


It appears we may have preferred this Ukrainian combo guard to Kabengele and/or Mann.  May be something to that yet.  Quite a few late first/first half of scond round players from that 2018 drfaft contributing (Yusuf was #44)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 07, 2020, 03:08:18 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on February 07, 2020, 02:34:19 PM
Could be, but Pat Riley knows what he wants and what he wanted was the Ig. Look — around here not getting completely screwed counts as progress.

In medicine, the dictum is do No Harm.

In Knicks Lore?

Do LESS HARM.

Melo.

Bargnani. 

Curry. 

Marbury.

Strickland.

Ewing. 

Chandler. 

Porzingis.

Can I hear an Awwwwwwww Man?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 07, 2020, 04:02:16 PM
The only Knick trades I can recall liking in the past 7 years or so: Getting Amare, Melo and moving Tim Jr. for a mid-round 1st.  There might have been others.

ORL game. Fultz started out scoring easily,  Elf took it personal and started stripping the ball.  Which took Fultz right out of the game.

Both teams took some ugly shots 1Q.   Including the wrong guys taking 3's (Smith,  RJB,  La Bamba, Gordon).

Knix had energy,  and were mostly up after 1Q due to rare fast break basketball.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 07, 2020, 04:20:07 PM
I didnt see the game.  Would be interested to see the rotations in the horrid 3rd quarter and the impressive 4th

Awaiting Bo's praise of Randle, who at least statistically seemed to have a strong game

Solid line for Lonzo last night, dictating while taking zero shots within the arc.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 07, 2020, 09:44:16 PM
Nice to see Hachimura back.  12-20 first 2 games

Napier really added to Wiz tonight - and they also got Wagner back.

Jerome Robinson not yet available, may take Bonga minutes
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 08, 2020, 12:16:40 AM
Only saw the 1Q.   Elf was the standout with 4 or 5 steals.   Randle was next best.  Usually Randle scores in bunches,  but this was more a basket here and there.

Most impressive Randle got a pair of 1Q blocks.   One was v.  LaBomba in transition.  Randle just rooted himself in the paint and knocked away whatever MoBomb thought he was gonna do.   Randle's had some multi-block games lately -- not bad for a burly guy with shortish arms.   

He's been more active on D the past few weeks. One game v. a good team he had two 4Q steals.  It's good to see Orange&Blue upping his defensive effort.
Which in the past has been occasionally disinterested. 

I don't think Morris was a particularly good defender,  but he made an effort,  was physical,  seemed aware what teams were running,  and while a bit foul prone, at least dished out hard fouls.   Mostly effort,  awareness and being physical made MaMo a solid defender.   It was also easier for teams to attack knix weak team defense with ball movement.
Title: The trade that never was
Post by: Kam on February 08, 2020, 12:36:19 AM
per Ian Begley
https://www.sny.tv/knicks/news/knicks-notes-how-much-progress-team-made-on-potential-dangelo-russell-deal/312678986 (https://www.sny.tv/knicks/news/knicks-notes-how-much-progress-team-made-on-potential-dangelo-russell-deal/312678986)
Quote
A few post-trade deadline notes:

News of the Knicks agreeing in principle with new team president Leon Rose broke hours before Thursday's trade deadline. It's unclear how, if at all, that impacted the Knicks' approach at the deadline. But the firing of ex-team president Steve Mills certainly changed their thinking.

Earlier in the week, before Mills was reassigned to another role at Madison Square Garden, members of the Knicks organization felt that they had made significant progress toward a trade for D'Angelo Russell. It's unclear what package was on the table, but one offer included Bobby Portis, Allonzo Trier and Frank Ntilikina, per sources. The Knicks obviously would have had to include at least one first-round pick. Before Mills was let go, they were willing to do that. Afterward, it was about making deals with the future in mind.

Which is why they traded Marcus Morris for the package they got back, which included a 2020 first-round draft pick. New York now has seven first-round picks in the next four years. That's a strong cache of assets for Rose and his front office to work with.

One of the Knicks' goals on Thursday was to keep enough assets post-deadline to be in position to trade for a disgruntled superstar, if one becomes available.

They did that. Though it seems the potential for a young star to be disgruntled took a bit of a hit on Thursday when Golden State traded Russell to Minnesota.


New York also explored deals for several other players, including Portis, but obviously nothing came to fruition before the deadline. Earlier in the week, they talked to Indiana about a trade that involved Aaron Holiday and Marcus Morris, but there was no traction because the Pacers, per sources, preferred a player in return that would remain with them beyond this season. Morris is a free agent this summer.

With regards to Morris, the Knicks were hesitant to send Morris to the Lakers in any deal that didn't bring back Kyle Kuzma. They also wanted Landry Shamet in a Clippers deal, but Los Angeles never considered moving Shamet.

Support for Hornets deal
Prior to Mills getting reassigned, there was internal support for a trade package with Charlotte that would have sent Dennis Smith Jr. to the Hornets and landed Malik Monk in New York. Once Mills was reassigned, the club shifted its thinking on that deal and the Russell deal. Now, the focus is on developing young players, filling out the front office and coaching staff for 2020 and deciding which veterans to keep and which to let go.
Title: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 08, 2020, 12:39:43 AM
Knicks did all the right things this week.  Reflected in their record on and off the court.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 08, 2020, 12:45:31 AM
Speaking of D effort.  2 mins into the contest,  Franc got switched on to Big Vuj,  left elbow 15' out.   Franc first bodied up ans swiped at the ball to delay any rimward progress, waited until Vuj's man could recover.   Then Franc sprinted across from the left elbow 15' out to the right elbow 3 point line.  Vuj indeed fires to that temporarily open man,  but Franc gets there just after the ball,  doesn't overrun or get off balance.   Guy has to hold,  jab step,  reset.

Really a terrific unheralddd play by Franc.   Recognized quickly what to do twice on that play, blowing up a mismatch and an open 3 point shot.   

Also credit Knix team D that
 They didn't leave open a strong side shooter as we've seen day too much of.   The Big looked to recover to his man (I forget who).   The shooter left open was a long pass away,  and on the elbow so either of the other two perimeter defenders could get there,  if Franc didn't sprint like a mad fool.

Though you'd want the straightaway defender closing out,  so as not to leave an open corner three,  and the surplus Knick defender on the former strong side could get to the topside shooter to rebalance the D.   

The impressive thing is the Knix team D seemed to understand all this.  The straightaway defender badges a step or two to the right elbow open 3 shooter, saw Franc's charge and stayed near his man. The corner 3 defender stayed in position.

How often under Fizz did we see either nobody rotate to an open 3 point shooter, or two defenders belatedly close on the same shooter?   Really inept stuff,  as we tried to protect the paint.  Give Coach Miller credit.   Knix D looks professionally organized at times.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 08, 2020, 01:02:30 AM
Good Begley article/info.   I didn't realize it was Morris to IND for some Holiday package.   You can understand INDy worried about FA Morris bolting in the Summer.

Jr. Smith and Monk both need new teams.  But we already have erratic SG's and don't need another poor defender.
I was wondering more about the Randle-Rozier rumor.

When you're a 20W team, you have to do better than the KZ and MaMo trades to get out of the muck. Now we're counting on late 1st Rounders to drag our sorry selves out of the bottom.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 08, 2020, 10:50:24 AM
Late ones?

We have a top 5 pick coming in, likely - unless we make a strong run.

And we have a little something called cap space.

Shame that our previous number ones - that you liked - have yet to fire.

But seems like Scott Perry feels they will.

(Will Scott Perry be around for long is the question)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 08, 2020, 11:00:50 AM
Begley is a bit off key on Russell deal.  It would have taken this year's #1. not just "at least one number one", as he stated.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 08, 2020, 11:20:38 AM
I'm not a draftnik.   I read some brief writeups at most, see no video.  First time I saw RJB play was opening night.

 I was interested in getting a 3&D wing in the last 2 drafts.   So I was wondering about one of the Bridges, and Hunter/Culver.

I did want a PG the prior draft and was glad we had a choice of Franc 'n' Smith.

As with Knox,  I was fine trusting the Knick scouts and talent evaluators.  So I got behind Franc and Knox.  Reasonable picks,  but with definite perhaps fatal flaws.

I was one of the few skeptics here noting that RJB was considered a poor shooter and weak defender.   Which unfortunately is true.  He's a good athlete and has his head on right,  but a lot to work on.  Everyone said it was a 3-man draft and we were fine,  but looks like a 2-man draft,  and we have some worries.

Knox was a bit of a risky pick since he was young and known to be raw.   But sometimes you have to take chances.

One real miss was Shai who had late buzz and started moving up the draft board.  Needing a PG Knix should have checked into him diligently. Having Shai instead of Knox would have made a significant difference for NYK.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 08, 2020, 11:25:34 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 08, 2020, 11:00:50 AM
Begley is a bit off key on Russell deal.  It would have taken this year's #1. not just "at least one number one", as he stated.

Maybe Mitch,  Portis,  Franc would have done it.

Or Morris + role players.  MaMo a much better fit for GS and they could resign him for less than Wiggins makes.

So might have been ways to work it without a pick.  Or with a DAL pick in there.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 08, 2020, 11:43:46 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 08, 2020, 11:25:34 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 08, 2020, 11:00:50 AM
Begley is a bit off key on Russell deal.  It would have taken this year's #1. not just "at least one number one", as he stated.

Maybe Mitch,  Portis,  Franc would have done it.

Or Morris + role players.  MaMo a much better fit for GS and they could resign him for less than Wiggins makes.

So might have been ways to work it without a pick.  Or with a DAL pick in there.

Golden State wouldn't own bird rights on Mamo.  He would've left for nothing.  They don't have the cap space.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 08, 2020, 12:09:19 PM
Doesn't sound like Marcus was listening to anybody's extension talk

And true - did Golden State even have that space for next year?  You cant extend a guy into space you do not have.

Maybe MM is indeed planning to return to us.  But its been stated as a not so strong year for wings between free agency and draft - so he could get quite a few nibbles.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 08, 2020, 12:13:03 PM
Most analysts shake their heads on Wiggins, but a couple really liked the addition.  GS seems very happy to have him as a gifted piece of the puzzle that "doesn't have to be a star"

Folks like Bo will come back with "well, then he's overpaid", but so what?
Title: Dubs win
Post by: Kam on February 08, 2020, 12:38:14 PM
It was a terrific trade for GS.  They got a guy (former #1 blah blah blah) who is clearly a better fit than Russell would be when Steph and Klay both return.  Wiggins is no KD, but with the Splash Bros, Draymond, and Wiggy they're loaded once more.  Oh yeah, they also get a probably lotto pick.  Amazing.    KD was going to leave for nothing, and they get a lotto pick and Wiggins out of it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 08, 2020, 12:56:56 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 08, 2020, 12:39:43 AM
Knicks did all the right things this week.  Reflected in their record on and off the court.
No. The surplus of guards is not an advantage to player development.

Do you really want Smith taking Frank's time?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 08, 2020, 01:00:11 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 08, 2020, 12:16:40 AM
Only saw the 1Q.   Elf was the standout with 4 or 5 steals.   

He was great later in the game too.

I'm always saying that when the Knicks play, the opposition guards are almost always better than ours.

And, man, I just get tired of that.

Not the other night. Payton's confidence and authority was palpable. Absolutely led the team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 08, 2020, 03:01:08 PM
I haven't paid much attention to salaries this year.   Scurry & Klay combine for nearly $80M next year.   Add Dray, and those 3 alone make $100M.

 I thought after moving Tangelo that they'd have a spare $17M for MaMo.   But it looks like they'd only have $8M or so.   So yeah,  Morris wouldn't work for them.

Would we have been allowed to extend and trade him?   Maybe not since he was on a one year deal.   And I'm notsure if such extensions can be more than 2 years (especially when no Bird rights involved) and MaMo would want a 3 or 4 year contract.

I used to be more up on the CBA, but now I'm just guessing a lot ...
Title: Re: Dubs win
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 08, 2020, 03:06:05 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 08, 2020, 12:38:14 PM
It was a terrific trade for GS.  They got a guy (former #1 blah blah blah) who is clearly a better fit than Russell would be when Steph and Klay both return.  Wiggins is no KD, but with the Splash Bros, Draymond, and Wiggy they're loaded once more.  Oh yeah, they also get a probably lotto pick.  Amazing.    KD was going to leave for nothing, and they get a lotto pick and Wiggins out of it.

KD?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 08, 2020, 03:09:15 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 08, 2020, 01:00:11 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 08, 2020, 12:16:40 AM
Only saw the 1Q.   Elf was the standout with 4 or 5 steals.   



I'm always saying that when the Knicks play, the opposition guards are almost always better than ours.

And, man, I just get tired of that.




Yeah, need a sniper at that 2 spot

Plenty of options in the draft - possibly to include LaMelo Ball, who can play either guard slot.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 08, 2020, 03:15:20 PM
Buyout season has begun.   At least in CHA.

Marvelous Williams bought out,  plans to sign with MIL assuming nobody claims him.   MIL dropping Bender for the roster spot.  Great cheap vet pickup.

MKG bought out.   DAL his likely landing spot.
Still a good defender.

I read somewhere that NYK might buyout Duke Ellington.   But unclear why.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 08, 2020, 03:39:08 PM
In its Last 2-Minute Report, the NBA cited two errors that disadvantaged the Magic against the Knicks.

First, the league said, the officiating crew failed to see/hear Steve Clifford attempting to call a timeout with 4.4 seconds left.

Second, Elfrid Payton should have been called for a foul for extending his leg and making foot-to-foot contact with Evan Fournier with 4.0 seconds left, leading to a turnover by Fournier. …
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 08, 2020, 03:45:02 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 08, 2020, 03:15:20 PM
Buyout season has begun.   At least in CHA.

Marvelous Williams bought out,  plans to sign with MIL assuming nobody claims him.   MIL dropping Bender for the roster spot.  Great cheap vet pickup.

MKG bought out.   DAL his likely landing spot.
Still a good defender.

I read somewhere that NYK might buyout Duke Ellington.   But unclear why.

Why not?

Seems decision has been made on his team option.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 08, 2020, 03:46:50 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 08, 2020, 12:56:56 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 08, 2020, 12:39:43 AM
Knicks did all the right things this week.  Reflected in their record on and off the court.
No. The surplus of guards is not an advantage to player development.

Do you really want Smith taking Frank's time?

yes

they are both assets
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 08, 2020, 05:32:42 PM
Program note -

Duke vs UNC - that's Tre Jones and Vernon Carey vs Cole Anthony

Pre-Knicks    6 pm  ESPN

At 10 its Killian Tillie vs Malik Fitts (Zags vs St Marys)

Fitts is a 6-8 redshirt junior (22 already) and shoots 48/42/78

Tillie, a senior from France is at 54/44/74 career - 6-10 - nice stretch 4

I like looking for experience in our second rounders this year (this duo, T Jones, Cassius Winston, Diakite of Virginia)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 08, 2020, 05:45:18 PM
Watch out for "bust" Thon Maker tonight.  Took over effectively for Drummond last night @OKC (7-12, 2-5, 3-5, 19-7-2-1) before fouling out.  Played 33 minutes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 08, 2020, 08:48:08 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 08, 2020, 12:56:56 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 08, 2020, 12:39:43 AM
Knicks did all the right things this week.  Reflected in their record on and off the court.
No. The surplus of guards is not an advantage to player development.

Do you really want Smith taking Frank's time?

I'm not stuck on the "Frank or die" trip a lotta knick fans are on.  Dennis has his own potential too. Elfrid is playing great.  Let's not play favorites.
Title: Re: Dubs win
Post by: Kam on February 08, 2020, 08:48:55 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 08, 2020, 03:06:05 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 08, 2020, 12:38:14 PM
It was a terrific trade for GS.  They got a guy (former #1 blah blah blah) who is clearly a better fit than Russell would be when Steph and Klay both return.  Wiggins is no KD, but with the Splash Bros, Draymond, and Wiggy they're loaded once more.  Oh yeah, they also get a probably lotto pick.  Amazing.    KD was going to leave for nothing, and they get a lotto pick and Wiggins out of it.

KD?

KD -> DLo -> Wiggins
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 08, 2020, 08:49:46 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 08, 2020, 03:46:50 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 08, 2020, 12:56:56 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 08, 2020, 12:39:43 AM
Knicks did all the right things this week.  Reflected in their record on and off the court.
No. The surplus of guards is not an advantage to player development.

Do you really want Smith taking Frank's time?

yes

they are both assets

Right.

Did you want Malik Monk taking Frank's time?  That was who Dennis was rumored to be traded for. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 08, 2020, 08:51:21 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 08, 2020, 03:01:08 PM

Would we have been allowed to extend and trade him? 

No.  We didn't have that option. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 08, 2020, 08:52:56 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 08, 2020, 03:45:02 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 08, 2020, 03:15:20 PM
Buyout season has begun.   At least in CHA.

Marvelous Williams bought out,  plans to sign with MIL assuming nobody claims him.   MIL dropping Bender for the roster spot.  Great cheap vet pickup.

MKG bought out.   DAL his likely landing spot.
Still a good defender.

I read somewhere that NYK might buyout Duke Ellington.   But unclear why.

Why not?

Seems decision has been made on his team option.

Might be wiser to keep his team option in case we want to package him and portis for someone in the offseason.
Title: Four straight!
Post by: Kam on February 08, 2020, 09:24:46 PM
Oh woe be fallen Knicks faithful fear not! Tis I, Positive Pussy Prime!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 08, 2020, 09:30:30 PM
We survived the Smith-Barrett combo in the 4th.

I thought coach brought back Payton and Randall too late (down seven with 6 minutes or something). I was wrong. They came through big. Payton genuinely running the offense at the end. I know Detroit sucks, but so do we, and it was great seeing this level of competence and control on both ends.

Ellington and Mitch with strong games.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 08, 2020, 09:47:37 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 08, 2020, 08:49:46 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 08, 2020, 03:46:50 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 08, 2020, 12:56:56 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 08, 2020, 12:39:43 AM
Knicks did all the right things this week.  Reflected in their record on and off the court.
No. The surplus of guards is not an advantage to player development.

Do you really want Smith taking Frank's time?

yes

they are both assets

Right.

Did you want Malik Monk taking Frank's time?  That was who Dennis was rumored to be traded for.

You're asking me?

You have to pay better attention.  I am with Coach Cal, who said Monk would have been a great Knick
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 08, 2020, 09:50:33 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 08, 2020, 09:47:37 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 08, 2020, 08:49:46 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 08, 2020, 03:46:50 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 08, 2020, 12:56:56 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 08, 2020, 12:39:43 AM
Knicks did all the right things this week.  Reflected in their record on and off the court.
No. The surplus of guards is not an advantage to player development.

Do you really want Smith taking Frank's time?

yes

they are both assets

Right.

Did you want Malik Monk taking Frank's time?  That was who Dennis was rumored to be traded for.

You're asking me?

You have to pay better attention.  I am with Coach Cal, who said Monk would have been a great Knick

I was asking elephant.    He seemed to want Dennis gone at all costs at the deadline.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 08, 2020, 10:19:24 PM
Christ, how long do you run the experiment? It hasn't worked.

The Knicks were willing to trade Smith and Frank for talent, but they couldn't make the deal. So the issues are obvious.

I've criticized Frank's stagnation in the past, but much of that may have been a product of questionable coaching. The last couple of months has shown positive signs. Let's play the dude more and see what we've got. Weren't you criticizing the Knicks last year for undermining his confidence with inconsistent minutes?

Smith's best game in two years was the one he had against us before we traded him. For the last year, his poor play was ascribed to injuries or personal issues. How long do we keep saying that? Yeah, I would have preferred to forget the whole fucking Porzingis debacle and trade the man for someone else who might help the team more. That didn't happen. But I sure as shit hope that if his play doesn't improve, he sits.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 08, 2020, 10:21:17 PM
Good game tonight - if erratic - 2 teams trying to get incrementally better
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 08, 2020, 10:38:23 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 08, 2020, 10:19:24 PM
Christ, how long do you run the experiment? It hasn't worked.

The Knicks were willing to trade Smith and Frank for talent, but they couldn't make the deal. So the issues are obvious.

I've criticized Frank's stagnation in the past, but much of that may have been a product of questionable coaching. The last couple of months has shown positive signs. Let's play the dude more and see what we've got. Weren't you criticizing the Knicks last year for undermining his confidence with inconsistent minutes?

Smith's best game in two years was the one he had against us before we traded him. For the last year, his poor play was ascribed to injuries or personal issues. How long do we keep saying that? Yeah, I would have preferred to forget the whole fucking Porzingis debacle and trade the man for someone else who might help the team more. That didn't happen. But I sure as shit hope that if his play doesn't improve, he sits.

Knicks, according to rumor shopped, damn near every body on the roster.  I'm happy they didn't make a short-sighted deal and want to now develop these guys.  I liked/loved Elfrid and Frank backcourt experiment last game.  Steals galore.

I've criticized the knicks in the past for not playing Frank.  But he had all the opportunities this season and we did not win games with him.  Payton is playing several head and shoulders above Frank at the 1.   Frank at the 2 could be great.  Let's see more of that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 08, 2020, 10:39:03 PM
Last ten games

Dennis
20-58

Frank
18-53
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 08, 2020, 10:40:43 PM
Frank
19 assists

Dennis
31 assists
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 08, 2020, 10:45:50 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 08, 2020, 09:30:30 PM
We survived the Smith-Barrett combo in the 4th.

I thought coach brought back Payton and Randall too late (down seven with 6 minutes or something). I was wrong. They came through big. Payton genuinely running the offense at the end. I know Detroit sucks, but so do we, and it was great seeing this level of competence and control on both ends.

Ellington and Mitch with strong games.

JULIUS!
BOBBY!
ELFRID!
Title: Re: Four straight!
Post by: carlos123 on February 08, 2020, 10:48:03 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 08, 2020, 09:24:46 PM
Oh woe be fallen Knicks faithful fear not! Tis I, Positive Pussy Prime!

POSITIVE PUSSY #4

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/0FYw1I6DW2RDMzViNjpIA4kIysSndFd7Um5e3FubQsQTSpRaMKpt1W4vsXrqLDtXhSRagMY4Y9FOIM-A4s__KN0XODfE0T4RftQ_hPmkVpcF-oL_UKLCs0dMqh2Zx-DFuaUROwzGAMTSg8bWJ5aIpckVlYwTW2oEmmGy9Tm_b3TlkVgMIxoRJQUfqxD1G3pJChaLG-vwAWMMQD4hm3gIMkFTqzDZnDEfdVExIL-e2Am6I9MdM-r6DJEJxfBo1AEYqIK_jMRtHIiV9_LgVbAXK3xTve7s2pxIWltX0F-9fX9XkrHWLsLjNX4geXB7qlQpDlm_ZhJnGaZZCnn70eijRtV9_UgPg8bUg219j_A-XpihB6e54OY1n0vq5JN_CYDAP-FsspZREDB0hmEAlFzO24pUGUvE-ouTj-JCIbk9fhqJYLMRVHq2dHm5gmYdQk0VN9uyBgl0YGS8HXzvDn1vm2rI72eaUuha3AxFsaRTsi3Jf99hVrvTGL-5plVtEZBZDbnw9S1Tbw70KJmJfOBPe6lU77VBKksSZaxsCjWSLrxTfS4B_B8q48S7KOXA5B5dC21NEF3dXdDMLtGmQHJ2uA4h7bTLrO5UGlRUPClQ2kxVkpiSlBtTz1GM6REj_YrCJhJ5e1NBw1u1NydRtY8xHjV90ilo7pwpYlHfKkvODbi2tn-n8h2FSRuDaceaJeLbaoFISt58crlc17TNrHxNmpMWZ2wd-IEavcUYVFhg7fJTArs=w259-h194-no)
Title: Re: Four straight!
Post by: Kam on February 08, 2020, 11:07:32 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 08, 2020, 10:48:03 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 08, 2020, 09:24:46 PM
Oh woe be fallen Knicks faithful fear not! Tis I, Positive Pussy Prime!

POSITIVE PUSSY #4

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/0FYw1I6DW2RDMzViNjpIA4kIysSndFd7Um5e3FubQsQTSpRaMKpt1W4vsXrqLDtXhSRagMY4Y9FOIM-A4s__KN0XODfE0T4RftQ_hPmkVpcF-oL_UKLCs0dMqh2Zx-DFuaUROwzGAMTSg8bWJ5aIpckVlYwTW2oEmmGy9Tm_b3TlkVgMIxoRJQUfqxD1G3pJChaLG-vwAWMMQD4hm3gIMkFTqzDZnDEfdVExIL-e2Am6I9MdM-r6DJEJxfBo1AEYqIK_jMRtHIiV9_LgVbAXK3xTve7s2pxIWltX0F-9fX9XkrHWLsLjNX4geXB7qlQpDlm_ZhJnGaZZCnn70eijRtV9_UgPg8bUg219j_A-XpihB6e54OY1n0vq5JN_CYDAP-FsspZREDB0hmEAlFzO24pUGUvE-ouTj-JCIbk9fhqJYLMRVHq2dHm5gmYdQk0VN9uyBgl0YGS8HXzvDn1vm2rI72eaUuha3AxFsaRTsi3Jf99hVrvTGL-5plVtEZBZDbnw9S1Tbw70KJmJfOBPe6lU77VBKksSZaxsCjWSLrxTfS4B_B8q48S7KOXA5B5dC21NEF3dXdDMLtGmQHJ2uA4h7bTLrO5UGlRUPClQ2kxVkpiSlBtTz1GM6REj_YrCJhJ5e1NBw1u1NydRtY8xHjV90ilo7pwpYlHfKkvODbi2tn-n8h2FSRuDaceaJeLbaoFISt58crlc17TNrHxNmpMWZ2wd-IEavcUYVFhg7fJTArs=w259-h194-no)

We've seen rock bottom.  We've emerged.   Heads almost above water under COY Miller (13-18 record)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 09, 2020, 12:16:26 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 08, 2020, 12:13:03 PM
Folks like Bo will come back with "well, then he's overpaid", but so what?

It's a problem if it means they have to fill out their bench with min salary guys like this year.   

The huge contracts for Scurry & Klay have limited their flexibility and distorted their roster.   Wiggy's loot compounds that.
Title: Kuz-na-ma stay
Post by: Kam on February 09, 2020, 12:17:51 AM
https://www.sny.tv/knicks/news/lakers-offered-kyle-kuzma-and-then-some-to-knicks-for-marcus-morris-report/312695634 (https://www.sny.tv/knicks/news/lakers-offered-kyle-kuzma-and-then-some-to-knicks-for-marcus-morris-report/312695634)

Quote
According to the LA Times, the Lakers and Knicks failed to come to an agreement, but the report indicates the Lakers were willing to give up some pieces. Those were reportedly Kyle Kuzma and Danny Green, but the Knicks said no.

From there, the report states "the Knicks then countered with a deal centered around Kuzma, Avery Bradley, DeMarcus Cousins and at least one second-round pick." The Lakers said no to that, and the deal never happened.

Morris, 30, averaged 19.6 points, 5.4 rebounds and 1.4 assists while shooting 44.2 percent from the field and 43.9 from three for the Knicks this season. Morris sat out the Clippers' first game since he joined the team, which went down as a 142-115 loss to the Timberwolves on Saturday.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 09, 2020, 12:31:34 AM
Sounds about right.   I saw A Very Bradley mentioned in some rumors,  but he's too valuable to Lakes D.  While Granny Dean's 3's would be replaced by Morris.

Don't really see how Kuz or Green fit with the Knix,  but they'd be assets.   And probably best to try to refill Green to a contender for sth.

Maybe our shaken-up FO didn't have time to work out the-trades ...   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 09, 2020, 12:41:28 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 09, 2020, 12:31:34 AM
Sounds about right.   I saw A Very Bradley mentioned in some rumors,  but he's too valuable to Lakes D.  While Granny Dean's 3's would be replaced by Morris.

Don't really see how Kuz or Green fit with the Knix,  but they'd be assets.   And probably best to try to refill Green to a contender for sth.

Maybe our shaken-up FO didn't have time to work out the-trades ...

We got rid of a suit with no NBA bonafides.  He was a dangerous growth that needed to be excised. 
We didn't lose our GM.  Perry was here through it all and had as much time as any front office.
I don't see who you route Green to.  We might regret not taking Kuzma though.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 09, 2020, 02:07:03 AM
Sounds to me like Perry Mills both knew their cushy jobs were at stake and they tussled over what to do.   Doesn't sound like Perry had a free hand until the last 48 hours.   

If your boss doesn't want to trade Morris,  then you don't look into those deals much,  especially since the Knix were also trying to move some of Portis,  Jr. Smith,  Ellington,  Trier; willing to move Knix,  Franc,  Randle,  Elf,  Taj for the right return.

Yes,  I'm speculating,  but that's roughly how things likely went down based on what's leaked out.

Mills Brother wanted to keep and resign MaMo, so Perry was likely working on other deals with low level Morris talk in the background.

My theory is that cost us a potential better Morris return.   While the intensive Morris trade focus right before the deadline might have cost us other deals (Portis,  Smith,  etc).  Getting in on a 3 or 4 tram trade takes up significant time.   HOU reportedly tried to get NYK in on their Covington/Minny deal.

I'm glad Mills is gone,  but the timing and power struggle did us no favors.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 09, 2020, 02:15:47 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 08, 2020, 10:39:03 PM
Last ten games

Dennis
20-58

Frank
18-53
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 08, 2020, 10:40:43 PM
Frank
19 assists

Dennis
31 assists

I don't know. It feels like Frank has taken strides recently — perhaps I shouldn't have said "the last couple of months." He certainly had a terrible series of games a few weeks ago.

But for what it's worth, Franks +/- is almost always higher than Dennis' this year. And it feels that way.

Indeed, at his position, Dennis +/- is ranked at the absolute bottom in the NBA this year (the 86 spot).
Title: Re: Four straight!
Post by: carlos123 on February 09, 2020, 02:17:13 AM
Quote from: Kam on February 08, 2020, 11:07:32 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 08, 2020, 10:48:03 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 08, 2020, 09:24:46 PM
Oh woe be fallen Knicks faithful fear not! Tis I, Positive Pussy Prime!

POSITIVE PUSSY #4

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/0FYw1I6DW2RDMzViNjpIA4kIysSndFd7Um5e3FubQsQTSpRaMKpt1W4vsXrqLDtXhSRagMY4Y9FOIM-A4s__KN0XODfE0T4RftQ_hPmkVpcF-oL_UKLCs0dMqh2Zx-DFuaUROwzGAMTSg8bWJ5aIpckVlYwTW2oEmmGy9Tm_b3TlkVgMIxoRJQUfqxD1G3pJChaLG-vwAWMMQD4hm3gIMkFTqzDZnDEfdVExIL-e2Am6I9MdM-r6DJEJxfBo1AEYqIK_jMRtHIiV9_LgVbAXK3xTve7s2pxIWltX0F-9fX9XkrHWLsLjNX4geXB7qlQpDlm_ZhJnGaZZCnn70eijRtV9_UgPg8bUg219j_A-XpihB6e54OY1n0vq5JN_CYDAP-FsspZREDB0hmEAlFzO24pUGUvE-ouTj-JCIbk9fhqJYLMRVHq2dHm5gmYdQk0VN9uyBgl0YGS8HXzvDn1vm2rI72eaUuha3AxFsaRTsi3Jf99hVrvTGL-5plVtEZBZDbnw9S1Tbw70KJmJfOBPe6lU77VBKksSZaxsCjWSLrxTfS4B_B8q48S7KOXA5B5dC21NEF3dXdDMLtGmQHJ2uA4h7bTLrO5UGlRUPClQ2kxVkpiSlBtTz1GM6REj_YrCJhJ5e1NBw1u1NydRtY8xHjV90ilo7pwpYlHfKkvODbi2tn-n8h2FSRuDaceaJeLbaoFISt58crlc17TNrHxNmpMWZ2wd-IEavcUYVFhg7fJTArs=w259-h194-no)

We've seen rock bottom.  We've emerged.   Heads almost above water under COY Miller (13-18 record)

I fear COY Miller is a goner at the end of the season. Then you can take my #2 spot.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 09, 2020, 06:02:20 AM
From what I've seen,  Jr.  Smith has been fairly bad.   Except for  some good plays or brief stretches of nice play.

He can get into the paint,  makes some good passes.   His shot has been bad so he doesn't trust it,  and sometimes passes when he should shoot and vice versa.

His finishes around the rim have been an adventure, but some of his drives to get there are pretty nice.

Bottom line: there's hints if talent.  He needs coaching and reps.   Earlier on the year I suggested having him run Westchester for a few weeks to get hid confidence and rhythm back,  help his decision-making.   There could be a player in there.  Maybe something akin to Shroder.

Knix have spent a lot of time trying this before.   Mud & Trey Burke barely get courttime even though their teams are short on PG's.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 09, 2020, 07:44:27 AM
Marq Chriss with 26 / 9 & 2 blocks in 27 mins v.  Lakers.
Started at C for GSW and came through.

He was immature and lost a few years,  but seems to have focused, when he saw his career slipping away. Interesting young player who was on waivers recently ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 09, 2020, 09:16:15 AM
If their future 2nd rounder could have gotten a late rebound or two,  we would have lost.

SET was without Blake,  Rose, Kennard, (Bulldog Drummond),  Mihailyuk (sp?).  They almost needed to borrow Bullock to have enough players.  I was surprised RegJax was back.

Agents as GM's is a weird new NBA twist, which seems fife with conflicts of interest.

DET has Arm Tellem on some high capacity.  But its unclear of he or Stefanski are running the show.   They don't actually have a GM or Prez of Basketball Ops.  A real mess in DET.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 09, 2020, 10:03:02 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 09, 2020, 12:16:26 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 08, 2020, 12:13:03 PM
Folks like Bo will come back with "well, then he's overpaid", but so what?

It's a problem if it means they have to fill out their bench with min salary guys like this year.   

The huge contracts for Scurry & Klay have limited their flexibility and distorted their roster.   Wiggy's loot compounds that.

True

Warriors have been able to go way over the cap using Durant in sign and trade for Russell's dollars - then staying way, way over using Russell's dollars for Wiggins

To get a small amount dollars to spend over the summer they could have dealt DAngelo for expirings but I dont think that was as good an avenue to take for a team looking to get another ring out of Curry's 32 and 33 aged seasons.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 09, 2020, 10:05:06 AM
Knicks-Lakers newes (that we turned down Green/Kuzma) runs contrary to everything that has been reported out of LA.  Much more believable that Lakers wanted to keep team as intact as possible during the Kobe mourning period - and Kuzma was removed from talks with Knicks altogeher.  (I was skeptical if LBJ would have allowed them to deal Green)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 09, 2020, 10:36:50 AM
Re:  Detroit

They decided not to deal Rose for scraps - and held onto Kennard.  I am OK with those 2 moves - and getting out from under Drummond

For future - looks like its build through draft and free agency. 

Can they deal Griffin next year, save his '21-'22 salary?  Dembouya the only playersigned past that

Next year's team starts with the three guards - Kennard, Rose and Svi - one wing - Snell - and Griffin.  What do they offer Wood and Maker, for starters?  And who will play there?

Draft note - Jaden McDaniels or Cole Anthony fit real well there, currently picking seventh.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 09, 2020, 12:27:36 PM
I can understand trading Bulldog Drummond.  But trading him for only a 2nd rounder is embarrassing.

The yahoosports writer Rohrbach ripped into them for that. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 09, 2020, 04:36:41 PM
When the option was paying him 29 mil next year they took the better road

Also get looks at a couple of guys for 30 games.

Re-sign Henson?  Sure - why not?
Title: Question
Post by: chipstern on February 09, 2020, 04:38:40 PM
Are we really 5 games out of the 8th seed?

Have we really matched last season's win total?

Is Moe Harkless going to get an honest audition for BoD's 3&D wet dream going forward into 2020-2021?

Doesn't Mike Miller have any native instincts for the art of the Extended Tank?

I mean....DEFENSE?  OUR KNICKS?

Que es esta?

Are Rose of the Dolan Grande & World Wide Mess really going to honor Miller's exemplary work by giving the coaching chair to the next available shiny abject?

Hello...I mean, who was expecting unheralded Jeff Can Guns to put such a positive imprint on the team when he took over for failed shiny abject,  Don Nelson, or Red Holzman for Dick McGuire?

Much as the prevailing wisdom holds that we draft shiny object BALL 2.0, when Elfrid Peyton, despite his jump shot trajectory, is making a compelling case for his leadership going forward, helping to resurrect a defensive culture, and promulgting an authentic sense of ball movement and coherence?

Verily, a Positive Pussy's lot is not a happy one?

TO BE A KNICKS FAN IS TO SUFFER.

PS: Kudos to Coach Miller, taking on a thankless task, deflecting attention away from himself, building confidence and camaraderie and chemistry amongst Mills's FA grab-bag of earthly delights, and otherwise maintaining positivity midst a shit storm of discontent.

PPS: FUCK MARK JACKSON.
Title: Spanish for Chip
Post by: carlos123 on February 09, 2020, 05:06:55 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 09, 2020, 04:38:40 PM

Que es esta?


Eso qué es?
U welcome 🙏🏼

Other than that, ditto ALL of your post.
(except the notion that VanGrumpy was a decent coach and Nelson a bad one, but that’s in the past)

FUCK MARK JACKSON
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 09, 2020, 05:09:33 PM
The new generals love Mark
Title: Jackson
Post by: carlos123 on February 09, 2020, 05:16:33 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 09, 2020, 05:09:33 PM
The new generals love Mark

Good for them, and best of luck to him!

We got the better coach.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 09, 2020, 05:55:16 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 09, 2020, 05:09:33 PM
The new generals love Mark

The old generals loved Fizz.

Ever hear that old expression about being too smart by half?

Or you can't always get what you want?  But if you try real hard, you might get what you need? 

Consider this.

Allan Houston has quietly done a nice job with Westchester.

Mike Miller was his call. 

Somehow,  AH has kept his head, kept his powder dry, maintaining a presence through successive administrations, while not getting plastered in MSG Fecal Matter and keeping Dolan's ear with his consul.

Remains to be seen what Dolan has learned from his pursuit of shiny abjects.

Perhaps I overstate my disdainful attitude towards Mark Jackson. 

His foul ups in GS were not a matter of hoops so much as...HUBRIS. 

He was not a team player. 

That is good AND bad.

What I like about Miller is sense of calm, a purposeful approach, and HE DOES NOT DRAW ATTENTION TO HIMSELF. 

We need steady foundational pieces going forward. 

Holzman was, like Miller, an obscure lifer. 

Anyway, unlike Fisher, Rambis, Hornacek, who were ALL Jackson's I bitches, Miller is not so much beholden to Mills or Perry or even Houston....but to THE TEAM.

Color me impressed. 

PS: Continuity would be nice.  Eh?

Title: Is It Just Me....
Post by: chipstern on February 09, 2020, 06:29:08 PM
Or does Randle seem more comfortable and efficient with Morris off the reservation?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 09, 2020, 06:34:44 PM
No problem with Coach Miller.

I still like Keith Smart.

DENNIS looking good tonight
Title: Re: Is It Just Me....
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 09, 2020, 07:27:29 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 09, 2020, 06:29:08 PM
Or does Randle seem more comfortable and efficient with Morris off the reservation?

Nothing to that.  Just doin his thing
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 09, 2020, 08:28:12 PM
1000 threes for Ellington!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 09, 2020, 08:29:23 PM
Payton, Ellington, Bullock, Randle, Robinson

got us 8 point OT lead

Payton cant stop Young and we dont take foul to give

Poorly coached end of OT

Lob to Mitch would have been nice
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 09, 2020, 08:53:23 PM
Luka who?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on February 09, 2020, 09:14:07 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 09, 2020, 08:53:23 PM
Luka who?

Doncic

Great vs. very good.
Title: You Kidding Me?
Post by: chipstern on February 09, 2020, 10:00:23 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 09, 2020, 09:14:07 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 09, 2020, 08:53:23 PM
Luka who?

Doncic

Great vs. very good.

TRAE YOUNG is a fucking assassin. 

Hey, 16 for 16 from the FT Line?

That's some old school winning basketball.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 09, 2020, 10:26:20 PM
I find Trae to be the more exciting of the 2.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 09, 2020, 11:14:48 PM
Like Scurry before him,  Trae needs to learn some effective defensive techniques.

Been forgetting to go on record liking MoHark.   Solid role player who sets screens, stays in position, plays a team game. Hope Miller can find a role for him.   Good soldier.

POR was dispirited by his iffy 3 point shooting,  but they really miss his glue game this year.

We should have rerouted Hark to Portis for Melo …
Title: Re: You Kidding Me?
Post by: carlos123 on February 10, 2020, 12:48:42 AM
Quote from: chipstern on February 09, 2020, 10:00:23 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 09, 2020, 09:14:07 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 09, 2020, 08:53:23 PM
Luka who?

Doncic

Great vs. very good.

TRAE YOUNG is a fucking assassin. 

Hey, 16 for 16 from the FT Line?

That's some old school winning basketball.

Trae is a very good player, who had a great game against us, like others before him... a little less great when Ntilikina was guarding him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 10, 2020, 01:20:26 AM
Alas, a game we fumbled away. But with a back-to-back, you can't let that game go to double overtime. Payton came back down to earth, looking pretty gassed at the end.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 10, 2020, 02:27:59 AM
Hawks have some nice pieces. Hunter is turning out very well. Dedmon was pivotal. They’ve got an interesting foundation.

If this game doesn’t drive in the importance of hitting free throws, nothing will.
Title: Re: You Kidding Me?
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 10, 2020, 08:29:21 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 10, 2020, 12:48:42 AM
Quote from: chipstern on February 09, 2020, 10:00:23 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 09, 2020, 09:14:07 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 09, 2020, 08:53:23 PM
Luka who?

Doncic

Great vs. very good.

TRAE YOUNG is a fucking assassin. 

Hey, 16 for 16 from the FT Line?

That's some old school winning basketball.

Trae is a very good player, who had a great game against us, like others before him... a little less great when Ntilikina was guarding him.

It was funny how Frank guarded the inbounder and Payton was on Young, with Knicks ahead 2 end of regulation.

Frank played well.  Was in for a longgggg stretch second half when we surrendered the lead but had also been effective first half.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on February 10, 2020, 08:32:22 AM
Why was Randle trying so damn hard to be the hero when Peyton was running an organized offense getting people the ball in the right spot to score.  Randle should not be handling the rock in crunch time.  They ran the same play twice at the end.  Randle puts his head down and go barrelling towards the basket.  Peyton is the MVP and Id have him in the gym working on that shot because he is a keeper and he got an edge to him.  LETSGOKNICKS
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 10, 2020, 09:18:26 AM
Old habits die hard.

I need to try to analyze Patrons shot,  but I'm down to phone viewing,  so I'm lucky if I know who has the ball.
Elf's 3's seem usually backrimmish, looks like her might get too much palm on the release.   

I wish there was a sight with a scouting report on each player. Also diagnosing flaws and perfections.

Duke & Bullocks combined 10-19 on 3's and we still lost.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 10, 2020, 09:23:21 AM
Very interested to see ATL a Capela.  There's chatter that he'll get in Collins way.   But Collins is developing range to be stretch 4-y.  You can stagger there minutes some.   And Capella can help mentor young Collins on D and with screening subtleties.   I think Capella was an excellent get for the Hawks.   Still have to make it work.  But Capella is an asset and addresses their interior D woes.   Great fit to Bo.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on February 10, 2020, 11:26:30 AM
We had that game but sheesh, Trae range is infinite,  That dude can chuck it from under his basket and still score at the other basket.  Dude was unconscious.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 10, 2020, 12:02:56 PM
I knew it wouldnt take long for one of you to rag on Randle.

Dude was a beast yesterday
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 10, 2020, 12:44:02 PM
He’s got to cut down the dumb plays, at least the ones at pivotal moments.

Without Dedmon’s contributions, Young’s heroics would have been irrelevant.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 10, 2020, 12:50:26 PM
Dude was a beast yesterday.
Then reverted to some of those bad habits at end.
Ok. Work to do. That's on coach —— big boy bringing the ball up and just deciding what to do is one of the last lingering bad flavors of the Cheezdale era.

We should've won that game. Elf wasn't controlling or seeing the floor well at the end.  No one could stop Trae from Traying. (well, Julius did once, quite nicely) Frank should have been in there at least from the point we took the 8 pt lead in OT 1. Was locking down the perimeter in his long stint, but coach had the guys he currently trusts in there and thought he could win with and that's fine.

I like this coach. He tries not to give meaningless minutes. No rotations are set in stone, and I think anybody who checks in has a chance to stay in the game if their play merits more. In general, Kevin Knox excepted, minutes are earned and subs and end game roles are used in pursuit of victories.

I could be wrong, but I suspect part of the reason we haven't seen Moe Harkless yet is that once he starts getting minutes, how can you possibly justify giving Knox anything? Apparently there are buyout possibilities here. Personally, would much rather keep him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 10, 2020, 12:56:35 PM
Deadman hoisted a handful of treys.

Randle seems to fade in the 4Q some games.   Which we can't afford with MaMo gone.  Maybe have to keep his minutrsin check.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 10, 2020, 01:44:57 PM
Collison not returning to NBA.   Lakes reportedly thinking of working out J Earl Smith and Dion Waiters (waived by Memf,  who probably didn't want him anywhere near JaMorant).

I was wondering how MoHark might affect Knox's playing time.  But with Morris gone there should be available minutes.

Saw some article where Portis was swearing up and down that he wouldn't take a buyout. 
Fairly obvious we won't be picking up his $15M option next year. He's probably worth half that.

Guys waived or bought out and waived by March 1 can still play in the postseason.  Give MoHark a look to see if we might want him back next year.   He's from NY and wants to be a Knick. Let Knox battle Mo Hark in practice.

I'd keep everyone.   But I'd prefer MoHark to Portis.  But different players.   Keep both.
 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 10, 2020, 01:46:34 PM
I hope Rose is smart enough to realize what he has in Mike Miller.

Dedmon’s blocks and boards were more impactful than his outside shot. Dedmon and Capela make a nice defensive center rotation that will make the Hawks perimeter guys that much more effective.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 10, 2020, 02:40:23 PM
I could be wrong, but I suspect part of the reason we haven't seen Moe Harkless yet is that once he starts getting minutes, how can you possibly justify giving Knox anything? Apparently there are buyout possibilities here. Personally, would much rather keep him.


Mo was sick last night

But there were murmurs about buyouts with multiple players

Matter of fact supposedly this is why we didnt take Kabungele and Mann from Clippers - we didnt want to have to immediately waive 2 players
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 10, 2020, 04:05:03 PM
Fairly obvious we won't be picking up (Portis) $15M option next year. He's probably worth half that.


Heh.

Dollars in the NBA are situational

What will NY do with the 15 mil they save?

If nobody else gives BP that much - doesnt mean Knicks PASS was wise.

What will the teams with all the cap space offer for a Portis, given their needs (see Knicks and their needs for current seasson - where BP GOT his 15) and which other players are vying for that loot ?

More teams going smaller - but BP has shown a pretty good perimeter game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 10, 2020, 04:56:13 PM
Portis plays poor D and is Mr.  Inconsistent.   Shows up every 3rd game or so.

He does have talent, and is young but needs to improve his focus. If Knicks want to keep him,  could let him brcome a FA and see what his market value is.   3/$25M sounds right to me.   3/$30M on the high end.  That is, keep him at the right price. Don't worry if you lose him.

I assume he accepted a team option Y2 since we were overpaying.

I think Portis has been entirely okay.   Can he get his head together and be more consistent? Is he just a tease?   $15M is starter money,  not what you pay a replacement level bench guy.

Maybe Knicks should give Portis a week plus of starts and see how it goes.  But the Randle-Portis combo is likely to be a disaster on D.   Even as Randle's effort on D has improved.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 10, 2020, 05:03:20 PM
Portis plays poor D and is Mr.  Inconsistent.   Shows up every 3rd game or so.


You're stuck on that

70% of the league plays what you consider poor defense - and most show less consistency than Bobby
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 10, 2020, 05:17:51 PM
Portis had interest from about a DOZEN teams last summer, including title contenders.  He has done little at age 24 to change this.  Of course the capped out (read:  good) teams often have less $$ to offer.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 10, 2020, 05:34:05 PM
It’s time to roll in some Tony Wooten along with Harkless. It’s time for a little more variety at the forward spots.

We’ll have Bird rights to Harkless. I think we may also have them for Dotson since his rookie deal ran 3 years.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 10, 2020, 05:38:50 PM
And 70% of the league consists of backups who aren't worth $15M.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 10, 2020, 05:56:54 PM
But really that's a BS way of reframing the debate.   At $15M you need to be a key rotation player.   7th man or better.  Which eliminates 54% of the league.

Compare Portis to the Top 210 or 240 players.

By definition 70% of the league doesn't play below average defense.   Portis does.

For his age and experience level,  the inconsistency is worrisome.   Some guys catch on later than others.   But some never do.

Bottom Line: does anyone project Portis as a starter in the next 2 or 3 years?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 10, 2020, 06:12:14 PM
I’d rather have Jules and Bobby together than to be stuck with Blake or Love for the same range as both Portis and Randle together.

Bobby just turned 25. He has a nice base of skills and ability along with a lot of room to improve.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 10, 2020, 06:46:50 PM
Those OT periods were crazy.   Elf ran out of gas and ideas.

The ATL announcers are pretty good.   They dawned over Mitch (gonna love Capella),  lamented Elf's management.

First I've seen more than a cameo from Hunter.   Looked good against us.  Coacj kept him out there a ton.  I've thought since last year Collins can be a future all star.  Tough kid with skills.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 10, 2020, 06:50:58 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 10, 2020, 05:34:05 PM
It’s time to roll in some Tony Wooten along with Harkless. It’s time for a little more variety at the forward spots.

We’ll have Bird rights to Harkless. I think we may also have them for Dotson since his rookie deal ran 3 years.

Miller indicated that Knicks thought it more persuasive for Wooten to play major minutes and keep evolving his game, than sit on the pine in anticipation of garbage time. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 10, 2020, 07:08:25 PM
Quote from: jaqdavisone on February 10, 2020, 11:26:30 AM
We had that game but sheesh, Trae range is infinite,  That dude can chuck it from under his basket and still score at the other basket.  Dude was unconscious.

TRAE makes me laugh.

He gets a little wild (so does Luka) when he [they] takes cazzy chances. 

But he is so slippery, has such a deceptive first step, is so elusive and has balls of some advanced space age polymer.  Every time he teased that stepback and launched a four pointer my head exploded.  DAMN.  As for his defense?  Please.  Very young, very slight; body still maturing.  His court vision is exquisite. He gets his team mates makeable shots in rhythm.  And I mean getting to the FT Line 16 times.  That's winning basketball.

Sometimes the best defense is a good offense.  THEY WON, NO?

Trae was Gigi Bryant's favorite player.

Let that sink in. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 10, 2020, 08:20:29 PM
We’ll have Bird rights to Harkless. I think we may also have them for Dotson since his rookie deal ran 3 years.


We will drop Harkless for the same reason Clippers did.  Bullock does more.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 10, 2020, 08:24:31 PM
I like the idea of Frank starting at the 2 next year

(Elfrid), (Dennis), FA addition
Frank, drafted player, (Damyean)
Barrett, Bullock, Knox
Randle. (Knox), (Portis). FA
Robinson, Randle, drafted player, (Portis) (Taj)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 10, 2020, 08:28:28 PM
And 70% of the league consists of backups who aren't worth $15M.


Have you ever actually been educated?

Do you know what opportunity cost is?

You would be wise to never again use the word "worth" on this forum
Title: LOL
Post by: carlos123 on February 10, 2020, 09:34:16 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 10, 2020, 08:28:28 PM
And 70% of the league consists of backups who aren't worth $15M.


Have you ever actually been educated?

Do you know what opportunity cost is?

You would be wise to never again use the word "worth" on this forum

U threatening BoZ?

Hilarious! 🤣
Title: Trae today
Post by: carlos123 on February 10, 2020, 09:42:33 PM
STARTERS   MIN   FG     3PT      FT   OREB   DREB   REB   AST   STL   BLK   TO   PF   +/-   PTS

T. YoungPG   34   7-19   3-11   12-13   0          1       1       9      0       0       4    0   -21   29

I mean, not bad except the +/-, but nothing like yesterday against the Knickerfockers.

Oh, and look at the 3PT, 3-11. He was just in a zone yesterday.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 10, 2020, 10:14:03 PM
Bobby just turned 25. He has a nice base of skills and ability along with a lot of room to improve.


He's a scorer.  Scorers get paid.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 10, 2020, 10:34:33 PM
Bobby is getting paid and I wouldn’t be surprised if we pick up his option next year.

Bullock will be back. He’s a steal on his current contract. He is a wing while Harkless is a swing forward.

Why don’t we see how Harkless performs and meshes with the team before we decide his fate.
Title: Re: Trae today
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 10, 2020, 10:35:11 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 10, 2020, 09:42:33 PM
STARTERS   MIN   FG     3PT      FT   OREB   DREB   REB   AST   STL   BLK   TO   PF   +/-   PTS

T. YoungPG   34   7-19   3-11   12-13   0          1       1       9      0       0       4    0   -21   29

I mean, not bad except the +/-, but nothing like yesterday against the Knickerfockers.

Oh, and look at the 3PT, 3-11. He was just in a zone yesterday.

Fultz a tidy 13 and 8, no turnovers, 3 steals.

Magic stay 2 ahead of WASH in loss column
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 10, 2020, 10:38:34 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 10, 2020, 10:34:33 PM
Bobby is getting paid and I wouldn’t be surprised if we pick up his option next year.

Bullock will be back. He’s a steal on his current contract. He is a wing while Harkless is a swing forward.

Why don’t we see how Harkless performs and meshes with the team before we decide his fate.

Wondering who we are targeting if we have a max to offer.

If we keep Bobby and try to add MM, that big $$ roster slot may go by the board
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 10, 2020, 10:44:36 PM
Looks like we are at about 80 mil if we keep Portis and Bullock and Payton, renounce Taj, Ellington, Harkless. Trier and Dotson (Possible re-signs of Hark and/or Dot via their Bird rights after we spend the other 40, as Fac stated).  If Marcus gets 20 there is then no max slot left.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/NYK.html
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 11, 2020, 12:21:35 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 10, 2020, 08:24:31 PM
I like the idea of Frank starting at the 2 next year

You mean if he, like, figures out how to shoot much better?

Because we're seeing that Payton can do his thing, but he needs guys who can reliably put the ball in the hoop. 

That hasn't been Frank.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 11, 2020, 12:36:21 AM
That’s about all Frank needs to add to hold it down at shooting guard. Now that he’s in a normal functional system and has Ellington and Bullock as examples of guys who pay most of their checks offensively off catch-and-shoot, we should hopefully see some improvement.

I’m also more than happy with his minutes at the point recently.

I’m curious to see how RJ stacks up with Harkless physically. RJ might not be ready to play regular small forward.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 11, 2020, 02:12:55 AM
Bullock is notoriously inconsistent. Like Portis and Elf.   Which is why these cats get shuffled around.   And not surprisingly all our yute are very up and down.   

A guy like Taj, Hark, to a lesser extent Randle you know what you are getting every night. 

Bullock and Hark are different players at different positions who do different things.   Hark is not flashy and doesn't put up a lot of numbers (which is why he has been moved),  but is solid and a good team player.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 11, 2020, 02:19:55 AM
Kidd has many techniques for not engaging in direct/useful discussion.   A little anger and polite Shut Up is perhaps a new one.   Though maybe just a variation of his at times condescension and frequent lack of engagement.

Here's a question: why was there there talk of buying out Portis? 

Because he's a great fit,  a keeper,  worth $15M next year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 11, 2020, 02:37:26 AM
Knix went in for a lot of duplicative assets. Ellington/Bullocks.
Randle/MaMo
Trier/Dot


So far we've decided Randle over Morris (I assume mostly for age and contract reasons).

Dot seems to have supplanted Trier.

Bullox seems better than El-train. Another rumored buyout  candidate.

While Franc 'n' Smith have opposite skills they both vie for the same backup PG role with neither a credible starter.   So that's another choice that needs to be made.

Franc as an SG strains things.   And yes his shooting liability is compounded with Elf as our starting PG.  Plus we have a lot of SG's.

The main chance that we opt in for Portis is he can make 3's at a decent rate, while we have few others who can.   So if we don't add shooters (draft,  FA, trade,  Portis could be a default option.

One thing interesting about Hark is he plays a role we don't otherwise have (Taj is similar but oldish and a size up)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 11, 2020, 03:13:15 AM
With a salary cap in place, the opportunity cost of Portis at $15M flows in the opposite direction you imagine.   Opting in on Portis means we don't have that money to spend on a better player.  A starting level player.   One who fits better next to Randle.

I'm willing to overpay for a quality starter,  especially a PG.   Which is why I didn't flinch at CP3's salary.   

But when you pay $15M to inconsistent backups,  you hamper your team.

There's a reason Portis was being shopped and some vague talk of buyout surrounded him...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 11, 2020, 03:49:23 AM
Here’s the list, Bo,

http://hoopshype.com/2020/01/20/nba-free-agency-2020-the-top-players/ (http://hoopshype.com/2020/01/20/nba-free-agency-2020-the-top-players/)

Who are your top 3 unrestricted guys or guys likely to decline player options you’d sign instead with that money?

If you are only keeping one, do you keep Taj for 10 mil or Bobby for nearly 16?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 11, 2020, 08:19:17 AM
Quote from: elephant on February 11, 2020, 12:21:35 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 10, 2020, 08:24:31 PM
I like the idea of Frank starting at the 2 next year

You mean if he, like, figures out how to shoot much better?

Because we're seeing that Payton can do his thing, but he needs guys who can reliably put the ball in the hoop. 

That hasn't been Frank.

Well, we wouldnt be looking to win the NBA title next year.  I know Elf/Frank as a starting duo is problematic, which is why I have the FA point guard listed - and also hold out for the possibility a drafted guard could start.

I see Frank as a Terrance Ferguson (OKC).  Ferg actually shoots LESS than Ntlikina.  And is a warrior defender.  But you are right - we need scoring at the other 4 spots for this to take shape,  Cant have a one dimensional Mitch and a 25% 3-point shooting PG playing at the same time.  IDEALLY, that is - and again - we seek 40-44 wins, not a title the first full year post DF,  Lineup likely wont be perfect
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 11, 2020, 08:26:51 AM
Re:  buyouts

Looks like Portis staying - Ellington still deciding.  Not sure if anyone else was offered one.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 11, 2020, 08:29:01 AM
Knicks with just one game this week (WED) and next (FRI).  Good time for Miller to put some stuff in.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on February 11, 2020, 08:34:04 AM
From that list believe it or not,  I'd take Kanter or Whiteside, along with Malik Beasley and Kris Dunn.  I like Dunn as the PG, Beasley can shoot and defend.  What we've been lacking this year even under Fizzdale was low post scoring.  A player who can get us two points while running the clock when we have a lead.  We continuously hoist up 3 pointers when we have a substantial lead and it always let the other team back in the game.   If Kanter can't do nothing else he can get you some low post buckets, as can whiteside.  The myth nowadays is you need your center to shoot threes, to me thats bullshit my PF can shoot threes but I need my center to man the paint and get some low post buckets.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 11, 2020, 08:43:52 AM
Sanon

https://elitesportsny.com/2020/02/10/issuf-sanon-tremendous-piece-for-the-new-york-knicks/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 11, 2020, 09:01:52 AM
I saw an article where Portis was quoted saying he would never take a buyout,  that he wants to finish what he starts, that he'd probably be the youngest to ever get bought out.   Left unsaid was it would likely hurt his FA this Summer.   But I liked his fighting spirit anyway.   He could boost his value if he went to a contender and contributed, but you can also get lost in the shuffle and new system easily enough, or not get minutes, etc.

Let's see if the buyout talk and this bring pretty clearly a contract year now lights a fire under Portis.   But he usually plays hard,  just not always smart. 

I'm a Taj fan.   Always need some savvy vets and lockerroom reliables.

MaMo seemed to be our leader.   I think now it's Taj.

Btw,  I think its nonsense to buy out Portis.   Duke can be bought out if he wants.

Clyde cryptically mentioned that there were rumors some Knix wanted to be traded.
Anyone have names.   I would guess Trier and Jr Smith.   Others?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 11, 2020, 09:17:58 AM
Looks like Mavs are waiving  Ryan Broekhoff
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 11, 2020, 09:24:23 AM
If team president Steve Mills and GM Scott Perry were coming back next season, Miller had a shot to return if his record got to be around .500. But Mills is gone, Perry may be demoted or fired and incoming president Leon Rose is prepared to make a flashy coaching hire after the season. According to NBA insiders, ex-Knicks assistant Tom Thibodeau and former Knicks coach Jeff Van Gundy are expected on Rose’s short list. – via Marc Berman @ New York Post
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 11, 2020, 11:35:09 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 11, 2020, 02:12:55 AM

A guy like Taj, Hark, to a lesser extent Randle you know what you are getting every night. 


Taj's consistency and effort is unusually high. Old school. I like him a lot. For us, I don't think he's a significant component, but I could see him making a difference for a contender. I was surprised he wasn't traded last week.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 11, 2020, 12:55:00 PM
Contenders dont have 10 million dollar guys floating around to trade back.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 11, 2020, 01:43:44 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 11, 2020, 11:35:09 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 11, 2020, 02:12:55 AM

A guy like Taj, Hark, to a lesser extent Randle you know what you are getting every night. 


Taj's consistency and effort is unusually high. Old school. I like him a lot. For us, I don't think he's a significant component, but I could see him making a difference for a contender. I was surprised he wasn't traded last week.

Young teams need good veterans to learn good habits from.   Taj is a great locker room guy whose production on the court is still significant enough that his voice in the locker room carries weight. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 11, 2020, 01:52:25 PM
Yep.  In fact per Hoopshype Atlanta may be looking at Harkless
Title: Plus
Post by: Kam on February 11, 2020, 03:24:12 PM
And i think Taj, a brooklyn kid, enjoys lacing it up for his NY Knix and knows he wouldn't start for most contending teams.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 11, 2020, 03:39:47 PM
Is that enough to get him re-up on a smaller longer deal if we don’t pick up his option?

The suggestions of JVG and Thibbs show a defensive effort oriented approach is favored by the new management. I still think Miller should get a real shot since those are the qualities he’s bringing out in this roster.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 11, 2020, 03:58:35 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 11, 2020, 03:39:47 PM
Is that enough to get him re-up on a smaller longer deal if we don’t pick up his option?


I don't think we are going to need his option money.  I think we gladly pick up his option.  If a trade opens up we are going to need salaries to match.  I think we keep almost everyone this offseason and don't really sign anyone.  Save money for 2021.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 11, 2020, 07:32:54 PM
I think that’s a good plan, but with our picks, ending deals, and new prez, I think we might be getting calls in and around draft day.
Title: Steve Stoute
Post by: chipstern on February 11, 2020, 09:30:14 PM
Our "branding" expert.

ASSHOLE.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 11, 2020, 10:43:55 PM
What a fucking moron. But what did we expect. Ain't nothing changed with Mills gone. We just gonna get different morons hired by the head moron.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 11, 2020, 10:47:48 PM
Hopefully Dolan lets Rose work.  Not like he did when he shortcircuited Phil.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 11, 2020, 10:51:34 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 11, 2020, 10:47:48 PM
Hopefully Dolan lets Rose work.  Not like he did when he shortcircuited Phil.

Phil was a lazy egoist who short circuited his own sorry ass. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 11, 2020, 11:15:24 PM
lol we are def gonna go from the biggest laughingstock in American sports to the biggest laughingstock in the world, if that's even possible...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 12, 2020, 01:17:21 AM
It'd be no surprise if the front office wants to higher its own coach.  And the opp is there with just an interim in place,  a no-namer, and the team still losing.   Miller would have to be golden to keep his job.   I'd give him. 10% chance of being extended.  Just the way things are.

Don't need some marketing turd letting the word out,  but its pretty obvious anyway.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 12, 2020, 01:26:58 AM
Thibs seems a very good match.   He's close with Rose,  knows NYC/NYK, and gets his guys to play hard.   Not much of a development coach, and prefers to ride his starters big minutes and play a short bench. 

You'd have to wonder if Knox or Franc would fall through the cracks.  Especially Knox who is a bad defender.

Would love to see JVG return (and bring SVG if he wants).   But not sure van Gumby wants to coach a bad team.

I've never been good at knowing which coach is right for which team.

I've been glad a few coaches j like have found success lately,  namely Nate and Gentry.   I also like Bzdelik and Lawrence Frank,  though they settled in as top assistants.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 12, 2020, 01:41:24 AM
As for that FA list,  about a dozen guys I'd be interestd in.   Depending on salary/contract demands.

Saric and Jerami Grant are good buy low candidates, but since both play PF where Randle is ensconced, they aren't priorities.  I'd take either for cheap.   Say $6M Saric and $9M Grant.

PG's:
 check out the FVV market.   He's shrimpy but tough.  Sort of a Jameer Nelson type.

RegJax for cheap.   He's always injured and not that great a starter.   But for cheap,  can roll the dice.
Conley?   A vet,  but short PG's don't age well.  Utah should have been a great fit.

Word is out on Bertrans, so likely pricey.   But My Leonard and Frank Tank are 7' shooters who could be had cheap.   We need shhoting. Probably just 15-20 min a night guys.   But both have talent.  $5M for these guys should be bargains.

Other shooters:
Bogdanx2
Malik Beasley
Dillon Brooks has really blossomed,  but an RFA and I assume Griz ain't getting outbid for him.
Title: What’s a Positive Pussy to do?
Post by: carlos123 on February 12, 2020, 01:49:14 AM
Hope you’re all wrong about what Rose is going to do.
Do I need to look for another team to root for?
I miss Mills already.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 12, 2020, 01:52:28 AM
And I thought it was ridiculous when folks were going to turn in their Jr. Knick badges over Lin and Mozgov ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 12, 2020, 02:00:48 AM
I'd take Dragic for 3/$30M, but why would he leave MIA for that?   Well maybe to regain a starting role...

Otto Porter would be a great fit on these Knix.   How much will he command?   I'd rather slide him $15M rather than Portishead.

Plumlee is a terrific role player. How much does he require?

On the margins,
Dunn is a better Franc than Franc.
WCS is big and young.   Should be a bargain

I'm mainly thinking shooters,  and PG's and defenders. All of which are tough to draft.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 12, 2020, 02:27:56 AM
That's 16 FA's for those counting at home.

Who likes any of those?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 12, 2020, 04:31:34 AM
They are good names to have in mind.

Here are players we’ll have contracts, options, or rights to;

Taj Mitch
Randle Bobby
Harkless Knox Brazdekis
Barrett Bullock Ellington Dotson
Payton Frank DSJ

Then come three cracks at the draft. BPA with the high pick & try to consolidate the other two and move up. Hopefully that gets you two rotation players more talented and effective than some of the 14 potentially still on board. One of Taj or Bobby, Knox or Iggy, Wayne or Dot, or Moe if he doesn’t work out, can easily go.

The Dayton kid, Obi Toppin, the Minnesota Gopher, Daniel Oturu, and throw the bank at Fred VanFleet wouldn’t be a bad start. Shave Bobby and Ellington and we can overpay the PG which seems to be what teams do these days.
 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 12, 2020, 08:11:34 AM
Maybe this is a more clear breakdown of FA's:

Myers Leonard or Tanky Frank as a cheap Stretch Big.   Something we don't have.   Adds a shooter.

Plumlee or the much cheaper WCS as extra Bigs.   If Plums,  then likely the end of Taj.   Love Taj,  but we'd be getting younger,  bigger and Plums can pass.

Shooting G's:
Bogdan would be perfect --
 shot,  handle, some playmaking.
Beasley plays hard.   I thought he was bigger than his listed 6'4".  Kind of like RJB with an outside shot.
Dillon Brooks likely ungettable but very intriguing.

The PG conundrum:
How much do you throw at FVV?   I'd be inclined to go high but short (3 year).
I've always been a Dragic fan,  but how much of an upgrade over Elf.   Dragon can shoot.
What's left in Conley s tank?
Buy low on RegJax -- he might take a one year make-good contract,  a high profile starting gig to re-up his value.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 12, 2020, 08:23:41 AM
Otto Porter would be a strong addition.   A starting SF with an all-around game,  low maintenance.  Along with Dragic, Conley,  RegJax he's had injury issues.   But that's why these fairly talented players could be had.  Porter has a foot injury now.

Add Porter and ditch Portis sounds great to me. 

Dunn & Saric represent good Buy Low talent,  but probably not right for us.

Jer Grant and Bertans probably too pricey. But worth monitoring.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 12, 2020, 08:45:39 AM
1) I'd try to add one high-priced starter:
FVV /  Bogdan / Porter. 
Lock up a starting slot and add 3 point shooting.  These guys all fairly young.

2) try to nab another shooter on the cheap:
Beasley / My Leonard / Tank / Saric

3) think about Plumlee as a Taj replacement.

4) look at creative options for whichever position didn't add a starting level FA.   1 year RegJax, WCS as an extra Big,  etc.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 12, 2020, 09:11:49 AM
Beasley is a very likely re-up with Wolves.

Dragic?  You take his age 34-36 years rather than keep Elfrid and be on the hook for just one?

Conley and Porter arent available

Reggie?  No.  Not at this time.

The big white guys who can shoot?  Sure.  Bid if you like them better than BP (not sure the new hip hop regime will).

Brooks?  That's a nice idea.  OVERBID.  Dare them to match.  At least we know we get a serious talent.  We need a 2.

Van Vleet surely should be a target.

LIKELY WE MAKE A BIG TRADE
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 12, 2020, 09:46:04 AM
Other names of interest, off the supplied list:


Clarkson

Harris

Ibaka

Rivers
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 12, 2020, 09:48:25 AM
Didn't realize Dragic was so aged.   And he's been breaking down for years.  Not much upgrade over Elf (better shooting,  decision making,  worse health,  probably worse D at this point).

OK,  scratch him. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 12, 2020, 09:54:14 AM
I think Memf matches any Brooks contract.   He's become a leader there, while Migrant is a quiet guy.   They balance each other well on/off the court.

Why won't Porter be available?   Not our biggest priority since we drafted Knox and RJB and have Randle at PF.   But he's good and his value down some due to injuries.

Conley hasn't fit in Utah well.   So who knows with that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 12, 2020, 09:57:53 AM
Porter and Conley have player options - 29 mil and 34 mil.

Pay that for one year in a trade if you want
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 12, 2020, 09:59:03 AM
I was high on Joe Harris,  great shooter,  crafty.   But since last Summer he's looked chunky and his defense worse as a result.  So I've cooled on him.   And we don't need another bad defender.

I'd much rather the younger Bogdanovich. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 12, 2020, 10:02:26 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 12, 2020, 09:57:53 AM
Porter and Conley have player options - 29 mil and 34 mil.

Oh, ok.

   I'm not fully up on how much money we'll have and options and ages and such.

FA still a long ways away.

I thought that Hoopshype FA list should include each players age next to their names.   Pertinent info.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 12, 2020, 10:03:15 AM
Bog is RESTRICTED

They turned down good offers and plan on matching
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 12, 2020, 10:07:09 AM
Van Vleet/Clarkson is actually a tough call for me.

I'd side with Fred - I think he just has the IT factor when it comes to leading.

Clarkson could own NY if you clear out the guard overage and give him 32-34 minutes a night.

Trading Barrett IS an option.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 12, 2020, 10:17:25 AM
Speaking of Clarkson - check out round 2 of that 2014 draft

We took Early, after Cavs selected Joe Harris

After Cleanthony -

Dinwiddie
J Grant
G Robinson
JOKIC
D Powell
Clarkson
J McRae
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 12, 2020, 11:27:46 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 12, 2020, 02:27:56 AM
That's 16 FA's for those counting at home.

Who likes any of those?

Malik Beasley
Title: Newsflash...
Post by: lesterluv on February 12, 2020, 11:34:04 AM
Ain't nobody coming here less we double overpay 'em and probably not even then if they care anything about the game.

The franchise still smells like ass, now more than ever.

*** No branding czar gonna wipe out that o-dear, particularly not one who is apparently to the media profession what fukwhale was to coaching

*** Ok, maybe we'll sign RegJax at 40mil for 2 years, lol...

*** and he probably won't play a game, but won't matter cause he sucks so bad when he is healthy
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 12, 2020, 12:07:41 PM
Kings have a lot of money coming up.   I think Hields big $$ kick in next year.

Not sure what their limit is for Bogdan.   Isn't Bogdan a backup for them?  They've got Fox-Hield-Barnes.

Bog can start for us and we could pay him as a starter.

So try to sign one of FVV / Bog / Brooks.

We really need a G upgrade.
Title: Re: Newsflash...
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 12, 2020, 12:11:52 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on February 12, 2020, 11:34:04 AM
Ain't nobody coming here less we double overpay 'em and probably not even then if they care anything about the game.

The franchise still smells like ass, now more than ever.

*** No branding czar gonna wipe out that o-dear, particularly not one who is apparently to the media profession what fukwhale was to coaching

*** Ok, maybe we'll sign RegJax at 40mil for 2 years, lol...

*** and he probably won't play a game, but won't matter cause he sucks so bad when he is healthy



Fuck off
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 12, 2020, 12:15:54 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 12, 2020, 12:07:41 PM
Kings have a lot of money coming up.   I think Hields big $$ kick in next year.

Not sure what their limit is for Bogdan.   Isn't Bogdan a backup for them?  They've got Fox-Hield-Barnes.

Bog can start for us and we could pay him as a starter.

So try to sign one of FVV / Bog / Brooks.

We really need a G upgrade.

I agree.  SG especially needed.  I put it at about 80% chance we draft one - or a point/combo (sorry, Fac).

Cole Anthony has been looking good.  Has some Lillard to him.  This if you dont like BALL.  Havent seen the Edwards kid yet.

Sac started playing well of late when they moved Heild to the second unit.  All reports are they are keeping BogBo
Title: Re: Newsflash...
Post by: lesterluv on February 12, 2020, 12:39:46 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 12, 2020, 12:11:52 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on February 12, 2020, 11:34:04 AM
Ain't nobody coming here less we double overpay 'em and probably not even then if they care anything about the game.

The franchise still smells like ass, now more than ever.

*** No branding czar gonna wipe out that o-dear, particularly not one who is apparently to the media profession what fukwhale was to coaching

*** Ok, maybe we'll sign RegJax at 40mil for 2 years, lol...

*** and he probably won't play a game, but won't matter cause he sucks so bad when he is healthy



Fuck off

lol, lol, keep jacking off!

*** ya tell me where i'z wrong, you cain't cuz i ain't
Title: Chico and my doggie
Post by: carlos123 on February 12, 2020, 02:06:15 PM
Les, I don’t understand why Chico got pissed with you after you sign off singing his praises.
Actually I thought he had hacked your account so that he could kiss his own a$$
Guess he only likes Trumpf’s
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 12, 2020, 02:24:45 PM
He's probably just having a bad day, maybe lost a parlay on racing cockroaches.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 12, 2020, 04:54:39 PM
So try to sign one of FVV / Bog / Brooks.


Yep

And dont be so damned afraid to deal a player who might do well elsewhere
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 12, 2020, 04:59:58 PM
And if you draft and/sign a couple of guys you think are worth featuring, you don’t have to do anything to radical with the coaches or the supporting players so we have some continuity to build on.

Knicks need to spend the whole all star break shooting free throws and 3s.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 12, 2020, 05:12:22 PM
Yeah, but we have to clear out "guys who can play" to give the most minute to "guys who can realllly play".   Too many minutes go to fringe NBA guys.

I dont wish to add a Clarkson or a Van Vleet and have them play 20-25 minutes a night
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 12, 2020, 05:21:11 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on February 12, 2020, 02:24:45 PM
He's probably just having a bad day, maybe lost a parlay on racing cockroaches.


Nah

Lost a starting pitcher and a CF though

Hopefully one of the new pups pop.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 12, 2020, 05:38:13 PM
Our two legit starters -- MaMo & Randle both averaged 32 mins.   Even rook RJB is at 30.
Elf 27.
I think the issue has been finding guys capable of good play over significant minutes.  So I think we get FVV, we'd ride him.  Especially if Thibs is our new coach. 

Hey,  I was willing to toss Mitch in for Tangelo.   Fit and role are a big part of NBA success.   I think Kerr just said as much with regard to Uncle Wiggy.

Like when I lamented we didn't trade for Lowry and some folks countered he might not have become an all-star as a Knick.

I think van Fred has a good deal of that Lowry toughness and grinding away.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 12, 2020, 05:45:09 PM
Evaml ghe backcourt by drafting a G,  and signing a FA G.

Sounds like a plan.

Who do people prefer:
FVV
Bogdan
Brooks
Other
? ? ?

I'm not a Clarkson fan.

What's happened to Biz?  He's good at this stuff.   And we could use a new poll on FA's, on next coach,  etc.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 12, 2020, 06:44:39 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 12, 2020, 05:38:13 PM
Our two legit starters -- MaMo & Randle both averaged 32 mins.   Even rook RJB is at 30.
Elf 27.
I think the issue has been finding guys capable of good play over significant minutes.  So I think we get FVV, we'd ride him.  Especially if Thibs is our new coach. 

Hey,  I was willing to toss Mitch in for Tangelo.   Fit and role are a big part of NBA success.   I think Kerr just said as much with regard to Uncle Wiggy.

Like when I lamented we didn't trade for Lowry and some folks countered he might not have become an all-star as a Knick.

I think van Fred has a good deal of that Lowry toughness and grinding away.

TOR is so well coached at this time

Has won 15 straight games

If they are willing to pay Fred, could very well be he stays.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 12, 2020, 06:44:50 PM
http://nypost.com/2020/02/12/the-line-jeff-van-gundy-wont-cross-for-knicks-coaching-chance/ (http://nypost.com/2020/02/12/the-line-jeff-van-gundy-wont-cross-for-knicks-coaching-chance/)

JVG is pure class.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 12, 2020, 07:04:29 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 12, 2020, 11:27:46 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 12, 2020, 02:27:56 AM
That's 16 FA's for those counting at home.

Who likes any of those?

Malik Beasley

Davis Bertans and Jerami grant
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 12, 2020, 08:02:02 PM
Smith Jr. with 3 turnovers in a minute.

I mean, Jesus.
Title: Moe Harkless
Post by: Kam on February 12, 2020, 08:16:25 PM
Makes his first shot. Nothing but net.  Next time down the floor he is drawing a double team! 

As a St Johnnie he's got MSG in his DNA.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 12, 2020, 08:18:43 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 12, 2020, 08:02:02 PM
Smith Jr. with 3 turnovers in a minute.

I mean, Jesus.

Jesus saves.   The ball.   DSJ is more like one of those bizarre fallen angels.  All the wings, but no halo.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 12, 2020, 09:29:30 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 12, 2020, 08:02:02 PM
Smith Jr. with 3 turnovers in a minute.

I mean, Jesus.

Like to see Smith pushing the action

I am guessing they werent overly egregious turnovers
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 12, 2020, 09:53:36 PM
Oh yeah, most definitely.

He was magnificent with those turnovers.

Just a wondrous thing to behold!

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 12, 2020, 10:07:19 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 12, 2020, 08:18:43 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 12, 2020, 08:02:02 PM
Smith Jr. with 3 turnovers in a minute.

I mean, Jesus.

Jesus saves.   The ball.   DSJ is more like one of those bizarre fallen angels.  All the wings, but no halo.

Perimeter players have no fucking clue where to go when Dennis drives
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 12, 2020, 10:47:09 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 12, 2020, 09:53:36 PM
Oh yeah, most definitely.

He was magnificent with those turnovers.

Just a wondrous thing to behold!

Lol.  It's come to this.  Like Franks good misses.

But i'll say this: DSJ's turnovers are more harmful than Frank's missed shots.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 12, 2020, 10:49:48 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 12, 2020, 10:07:19 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 12, 2020, 08:18:43 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 12, 2020, 08:02:02 PM
Smith Jr. with 3 turnovers in a minute.

I mean, Jesus.

Jesus saves.   The ball.   DSJ is more like one of those bizarre fallen angels.  All the wings, but no halo.

Perimeter players have no fucking clue where to go when Dennis drives

In my imagination i can construct a team where DSJ could be the PG.  But that team can't have other high turnover guys on it like Randle.  DSJ is a high usage/high turnover guy in the mold of (but not nearly as good as) Russell Westbrook or Trae Young.  You can't have a high usage/high turnover guy and win chips, but you can have one and make the playoffs.  You can't have more than one though.  Randle + DSJ = Sloppy BBALL.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 13, 2020, 01:59:09 AM
Quote
Davis Bertans and Jerami Grant
Always liked Bert,  but he's set to make a ton of money.   

I thought Grant was set perfect addition for DEN.   He's been very valuable when Milsap was out,  but before that he was just okay,  up and down.

Good player,  but Randle's our PF so I don't see the fit while we have so many needs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 13, 2020, 02:37:14 AM
Elf made a 3; so did Randle. 2-5 combined.  Rest of the Knix 1-18.  We need shooters.

Portis only Knick with a game + ... but he had 3 turns in 15 mins and self-exited by throwing the ball at Napier for no reason.   Maybe Wiz don't go on their big 4Q run if the great Bobby P stuck around.   At least he could hoist the 3's MoHark took (not his game).

I didn't realize Hark was shooting just 57% FT thus year and 61% for his career.   Like 3's,  he takes few of them, but another bad FT shooter is sort of embarrassing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 13, 2020, 06:48:59 AM
Btw, Crowder killing it his first 3 games in MIA.   Averaging 18 Pts, 7 Boards & 2 steals on 60% FG and 12-20 on treys (60%), 8-9 FT's.   And he plays strout D.   That can't last,  but a great start.

Butler, Iggy,  Crowder make a pretty imposing defensive trio. I wouldn't be surprised if Crowder is more important to MIA than Iggy.   If nothing else Crowder can soak up reg season minutes while Ig gets back to form,  and ready for the post-season.  JaeC a great pickup for the Heat.
Title: Re: Post Brawl Reaction
Post by: bodiddley on February 13, 2020, 07:01:45 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 06, 2020, 12:15:25 PM
Memphis is cleaning up
Gets rid of the bum Crowder.  Solid vet Solon Hill also in the deal

Quote from: Kam on February 06, 2020, 12:12:08 PM
Not even his own team wanted Crowder anymore.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 13, 2020, 08:25:30 AM
Ugliest game of the year

Good showing for Mo H, had he hit one of his threes (2-7, 0-3).  Look forward to seeing more.
Title: Re: Post Brawl Reaction
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 13, 2020, 08:28:54 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 13, 2020, 07:01:45 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 06, 2020, 12:15:25 PM
Memphis is cleaning up
Gets rid of the bum Crowder.  Solid vet Solon Hill also in the deal

Quote from: Kam on February 06, 2020, 12:12:08 PM
Not even his own team wanted Crowder anymore.

Picked up Jae in fantasy
Had dropped Elfrid after his suspension and a few low stat outings - ouch.  RJ long gone so he should pick it up nicely  :)

Analysts last night made me barf, fawning over the aggressive but lost Barrett when he was 4-9 first half (finished 5-16)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 13, 2020, 08:32:01 AM
22, 10 and 5 for Fultz last night.  0 turnovers, couple of swipes.  Think maybe we should have been interested when Magic nabbed him?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 13, 2020, 04:19:01 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 12, 2020, 05:38:13 PM
Our two legit starters -- MaMo & Randle both averaged 32 mins.   Even rook RJB is at 30.
Elf 27.
I think the issue has been finding guys capable of good play over significant minutes.  So I think we get FVV, we'd ride him.  Especially if Thibs is our new coach. 

Hey,  I was willing to toss Mitch in for Tangelo.   Fit and role are a big part of NBA success.   I think Kerr just said as much with regard to Uncle Wiggy.

Like when I lamented we didn't trade for Lowry and some folks countered he might not have become an all-star as a Knick.

I think van Fred has a good deal of that Lowry toughness and grinding away.

Dwayne Casey

Or

Mike Woodson

Winner

Or

Loser

Casey helped Lowry take the next step. 

And was surrounded with winning talent and a visionary front office.

Knicks?  Phil would've traded him for #2 picks after Kyle refused to run the triangle. 

PS: DOLAN himself nixed the trade after getting fist fucked by MU on the Melo and Bargnani trades. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 13, 2020, 04:23:08 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 13, 2020, 02:37:14 AM
Elf made a 3; so did Randle. 2-5 combined.  Rest of the Knix 1-18.  We need shooters.

Portis only Knick with a game + ... but he had 3 turns in 15 mins and self-exited by throwing the ball at Napier for no reason.   Maybe Wiz don't go on their big 4Q run if the great Bobby P stuck around.   At least he could hoist the 3's MoHark took (not his game).

I didn't realize Hark was shooting just 57% FT thus year and 61% for his career.   Like 3's,  he takes few of them, but another bad FT shooter is sort of embarrassing.

Your 3 and D wet dream?

FucK Mo....

Oh, nevermind. 

Seems like a good kid.  And and a committed defender.

Otherwise....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 13, 2020, 05:59:01 PM
MoHawk isn't a 3 point shooter.

If he were,  he'd still be in POR.   But he's still a good role player.
Title: A good role player ...
Post by: carlos123 on February 13, 2020, 09:49:23 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 13, 2020, 05:59:01 PM
MoHawk isn't a 3 point shooter.

If he were,  he'd still be in POR.   But he's still a good role player.

A good role player who can't shoot 3s.

Is that what we got for Marcus?

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/3564385eaac68cd2aa903a5a14710c8e/tenor.gif?itemid=5047283)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 13, 2020, 10:36:34 PM
Well, Hark & a circa #28 pick. I still contend we could have gotten a better return with a better FO.  But hopefully we can resign MoHa for around $7M.  Thus adding a solid player at a good rate.  MoHawk was starting on an elite Lac team.

Hark started 38/50 games he played for the Clips averaging 23 mins  PatPat 18/45 but just 12 mins per.  But they also have JaMike Green, averaging 20mpg.   Like us the Clips loaded up on PF's last Summer.

JaMike & Pat are solid 3 point shooters.   Hark the best defender of the trio.

Its just too bad we added a player at the same spot as Randle.  That's one of the issues with Randle,  he's monopositional.  Hark can play some SF.  But then between Hark-Randle-Taj/Mitch you have poor to negligible 3 point shooting.   And that's compounded by Elf/Franc/Smith.

So while Hark is a solid player I'd like to keep around -- something like a 26 year old combo F version of Taj -- he's not a great fit for our roster.   So we likely won't bid too high to retain him,  and might prefer ghr cap space.
Title: The Knicks Brand
Post by: chipstern on February 13, 2020, 10:38:19 PM
DeAndre Jordan, another survivor of Mills' KP trade, wonders aloud as to how cheap the rent must be in Westchester.

Mr. Dolan.

You hired a branding specialist,  who turned out to be the latest in a string of lightweights. 

Rose?

Want to attract top free agents?

If I was making 20 million dollars a year, I might very well like to get a hip Manhattan apartment in a building with a gym.  I might not like to commute one hour to and one hour from our Westchester County practice facility, preferring to use those two hours to, oh, I don't know, play with my kids...TAKE A FUCKING NAP before game time at the Garden.

I mean....DUH.

Title: Re: A good role player ...
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 13, 2020, 10:40:14 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 13, 2020, 09:49:23 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 13, 2020, 05:59:01 PM
MoHawk isn't a 3 point shooter.

If he were,  he'd still be in POR.   But he's still a good role player.

A good role player who can't shoot 3s.

Is that what we got for Marcus?



No
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 13, 2020, 10:42:21 PM
Yussuf Sanon

Should see him in the summer
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 13, 2020, 10:45:32 PM
What's the status with Duke Ellington $8M and Taj $9.4M for next year.   Are those fully guaranteed (less common than before).

I know Randle 2 years out only has a $4M guarantee on his circa $20M.  Some contract versatility.

I'd be fine having Taj back.   Ell isn't needed.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 13, 2020, 10:47:14 PM
https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/NYK.html
Title: Jayson Tatum
Post by: chipstern on February 13, 2020, 10:52:46 PM
Motherfucker.

On both ends. 

Marcus Smart and Kemba Walker looking great.

Tatum.

Kevin Knox, your offseason is calling.

[Hope springs eternal]
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 13, 2020, 10:58:57 PM
Nice to see the Clippers dropping games. The more the merrier.

Seeing Yussuf should be fun.

Harkless has hit over .350 from three 4 of his last five seasons including his Clips stint. He’s done that for half his career, including .415 on 2 attempts per in his third year in Portland. While Morris has never dipped quite as low in percentages as Harkless, he’s never hit like he did for us until this year. Morris is by all means a better 3pt shooter at this stage than Harkless, but I still don’t mind Harkless shooting 3’s if he gets good looks.

Historically he shoots it better than Randle, our PG’s and any of our Yute except Dotson and Trier.

It just goes to show how much we need outside shooting generally. Harkless as a non-shooter is being overstated.

Title: Re: A good role player ...
Post by: carlos123 on February 13, 2020, 11:04:41 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 13, 2020, 10:40:14 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 13, 2020, 09:49:23 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 13, 2020, 05:59:01 PM
MoHawk isn't a 3 point shooter.

If he were,  he'd still be in POR.   But he's still a good role player.

A good role player who can't shoot 3s.

Is that what we got for Marcus?



No

Very enlightening, as usual.

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/3564385eaac68cd2aa903a5a14710c8e/tenor.gif?itemid=5047283)
Title: Gordon Hayward
Post by: chipstern on February 13, 2020, 11:09:47 PM
The Earthly Remains Of The Second #1 pick the Knicks ponied up on the Stephon Marbury trade. 

Another great mystery in Knicks Pisstory.

You go, Gordon. 

PS: Tatum makes me reflect on Reggie Lewis.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on February 13, 2020, 11:15:12 PM
that game was a blast and a half.

2 very good teams going head to head for 58 minutes

playing intense hoops

and so many great individual performances

And Tatum is a 2-way monster
Title: Disclaimer
Post by: carlos123 on February 13, 2020, 11:23:11 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on February 13, 2020, 11:15:12 PM

And Tatum is a 2-way monster

No

DISCLAIMER: I’m just quoting Chico.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 13, 2020, 11:25:43 PM
Followed it on Yahoo.  NBA at its best

What happened to George?
Title: Response
Post by: carlos123 on February 13, 2020, 11:30:01 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 13, 2020, 11:25:43 PM
Followed it on Yahoo.  NBA at its best

What happened to George?

Nothing
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 14, 2020, 02:25:58 AM
Reported PG13 hurt his hammy. I really liked how physical Tatum and Jaylen were their rook years.   Generally yute takes a while to get physical with grown-ass men.   RJB another exception (though without the D and shooting of Tatum/Jaylen).
Knox is more typical.   He looks like a specimen and now and then takes it strong.   But usually can't finish,  avoids making the contact,  gets knocked down or off-balance,  etc.

I was trying to trade Melo for Jaylen & Rozier when those guys werent seeing much daylight. And of course pre-Gordo trade.

But while Jaylen is a good player,  Tatum can be all-star level .  Paul George,  Danny Granger, prime Rudy Gay level.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 14, 2020, 02:49:11 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 13, 2020, 10:47:14 PM
https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/NYK.html

Thx.   I usually use Hoooshype,  and as far as I can tell they list Taj & Ell as full contracts.

Okay,  so both are team options.  Certainly drop Ellington.  That's pretty clear.   Bullock or Dot can take his minutes. But preferably we get a genuine SG starter.   Brooks or Bogdan or a rook. Convert Portis & Ellington into Bogdan or Brooks (or FleetvanFred) and might still have $5M left over.  $18M sounds right. $20M could be done.

I'd think about giving MoHark up to Ellington/midlevel money.  $6-$8M range.
Hark has shot around 36% on 3's only on very low volume,  just taking very open ones.   Which is smart.   Maybe he can ramp up.   I guess our losing Knick team can afford to greenlight him and find out.

Drop Portis & Ell and that's an extra $23M to play with.  Taj at $10M is fine.   If you need the extra money,  drop him and add a WCS,  Alex Len or whatever other serviceable  Big will be available on the cheap.  But youd only be saving $5M and lose a hard worker and locker room presence.  Or could always go the opposite direction and drop Taj but upgrade to Plumlee at say $12M or so.

Have to say I'm impressed you guys are already so up on FA's and the Knix salary structure.
I'm barely past our underwhelming trade season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 14, 2020, 03:24:44 AM
Didn't see the game,  but 60 FG's for Lashing and Loud,  but just 8 FGs for Morris in 42 mins?   Clips also took 37 FT's,  but none for Morris.   I guess there always an adjustment, but real odd MaMo would get the 6th most shots,  and likely 7gh in PG didn't go gimpy after just 15 mins.
Title: Re: Gordon Hayward
Post by: Kam on February 14, 2020, 10:39:26 AM
Quote from: chipstern on February 13, 2020, 11:09:47 PM
The Earthly Remains Of The Second #1 pick the Knicks ponied up on the Stephon Marbury trade. 

Another great mystery in Knicks Pisstory.

You go, Gordon. 

PS: Tatum makes me reflect on Reggie Lewis.

Because Gordon Heywad worked out so great for Utah.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 14, 2020, 10:40:35 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 14, 2020, 02:49:11 AM

Have to say I'm impressed you guys are already so up on FA's and the Knix salary structure.
I'm barely past our underwhelming trade season.

You're slippin. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 14, 2020, 10:42:53 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 14, 2020, 02:49:11 AM
Drop Portis & Ell and that's an extra $23M to play with.

OR exercise their team options and thats an extra $20-$30mil in salary you can take back in trade.  You're assuming there's $23mil worth of FA out there that want to come here.  FA won't work.  Sign a 23mil guy (who you'll probably have to overpay to come here lets be real) now you're stuck with an overpaid 23mil guy for the full length of his deal.  BUT if you trade for someone else's overpaid bad-fit at least there will be fewer years on the deal and you're not limited to this off-season crop of dubious talent.

TRADES BO!  TRADES!

Or just let Ellington and Taj expire after next season for that year's FAs.  Do the least harm.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 14, 2020, 11:19:24 AM
Yikes.   I think youre outthinking yourself. 
Aren't useful bad contracts akin to good misses and positive turnovers?

Taj,  Elf,  Franc,  Jr.  Smith, Knox,  RJB,  Bullox, possibly a resigned Hark.
We'll have plenty of contracts between $4M - $10M to swing deals.

I'd simply prefer dropping Ellingtons $8 on Hark.  Or less if possible.  Hark for $6M would be a bargain.

You can make a case for Portis, if you think he can grow.   Maybe we should run a trial 2 weeks of Portis starting and see how it goes.  But I don't see why we would want Portis at $16M or someone else would trade for him at that rate.

And yes I'd prefer to consolidate Portisellington's $23M into one quality starter (doubling our current count).   Be nice if can do it for $18M or $20M and save a little. But I don't mind a $3 - $5M overpay.  We're that desperate for starters.
$20M for FVV,  $18M for Brooks or Bogdan. Add $2M if needed.  Snag one of them and we're in much better shape.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 14, 2020, 11:48:12 AM
You can make a case for Portis, if you think he can grow.   Maybe we should run a trial 2 weeks of Portis starting and see how it goes.  But I don't see why we would want Portis at $16M or someone else would trade for him at that rate.


Not sure you are following

Kam wants to eventually deal Bobby and Wayne for someone else's salary dump.

Paul may be a bad example but lets use him

We take CP's 2021-22 contract - a bad one - and give OKC the relief - using - partially - 23 mil from Wayne and Bobby, then adding others, maybe a DSJ if he is still her......etc.

We would have to pay Paul for one year then have a crapload of space when the free agent pickins are greater

Title: Out thinking the masses
Post by: Kam on February 14, 2020, 12:18:54 PM
Kid gets it.

Quote
Taj,  Elf,  Franc,  Jr.  Smith, Knox,  RJB,  Bullox, possibly a resigned Hark.
We'll have plenty of contracts between $4M - $10M to swing deals.

I'm not trading all that young low priced talent.  I'm trying to trade bloated expirings.

Elling+Portis+filler and you can get an All-Star on a big contract who needs a new team.

Or just let them go and don't re-fill that space with a mid-tier player who takes you out of the 2021 summer signing season.
Title: Re: The Knicks Brand
Post by: Kam on February 14, 2020, 12:32:25 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 13, 2020, 10:38:19 PM
DeAndre Jordan, another survivor of Mills' KP trade, wonders aloud as to how cheap the rent must be in Westchester.

Mr. Dolan.

You hired a branding specialist,  who turned out to be the latest in a string of lightweights. 

Rose?

Want to attract top free agents?

If I was making 20 million dollars a year, I might very well like to get a hip Manhattan apartment in a building with a gym.  I might not like to commute one hour to and one hour from our Westchester County practice facility, preferring to use those two hours to, oh, I don't know, play with my kids...TAKE A FUCKING NAP before game time at the Garden.

I mean....DUH.

It's weird that Dolan can't find a gym in the city.  All these Colleges here with teams.  Not one wants to let the Knicks use their gym twice a week?

https://www.sny.tv/knicks/news/nets-deandre-jordan-on-knicks-practice-facility-the-rent-must-be-cheap-out-there/312759222 (https://www.sny.tv/knicks/news/nets-deandre-jordan-on-knicks-practice-facility-the-rent-must-be-cheap-out-there/312759222)
Title: Meanwhile the "MSG Training Center" is located in Tarrytown
Post by: Kam on February 14, 2020, 12:37:08 PM
Quote
With today's professional athletes having to compete at a higher level than ever before, the New York Rangers and Knicks began training year-round in the state-of-the-art Madison Square Garden Training Center in Tarrytown, New York in September 2002. This facility is another proactive element of the organizations' continuing commitment towards supplying Madison Square Garden sports fans with the most competitive teams in their respective leagues.

The Madison Square Garden Training Center offers the Rangers and Knicks the opportunity to utilize the best equipment, the best training regimen, the best environment - to elevate their performances when they open their respective schedules in the NHL, NBA and WNBA. The 105,000 square-foot facility, set on 16 acres of private land in Westchester County, is equipped with well-appointed private areas and office space, exercise rooms with dedicated equipment for each team, the latest technology and first-class amenities.

The facility features two basketball courts and one NHL regulation-sized hockey rink. Each team's area within the Madison Square Garden Training Center includes:

1,800 square-foot complete cardiovascular and weight room
Steam rooms, whirlpool and cold plunge
Gated parking lots located adjacent to a private entrance into the players' lounge
Tiered classrooms with high-back theater style seating
State of the art video editing rooms
Coach's loung/offices

The training center also features amenities to be shared by all teams, including a Hydro Worx 1000 aquatic therapy pool, a dining room with seating for 40 people and auxiliary locker rooms which can be utilized for visiting teams in need of additional practice time during their stay in New York.

Media accommodations include dedicated media rooms and workstations, pre-wired for phone and Internet access, an interview room for one-on-one or small group interviews, as well as cabled locations for remote broadcasts. The basketball courts and hockey rink are all equipped with dedicated seating for attending media.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 14, 2020, 12:57:17 PM
I thought the idea was Westchester was supposed to be state of the art.

We couldn't find anyone better than Portis to drop a 1 year $16M deal on?   Last year we hit with Morris.  Get a 2nd year team option like we did by overpaying Portis, in case the guy does well.

Again,  we have plenty of $6M-$8M contracts,  so Ellington is a waste.  Portis for $16M hoping to help a tram dump salary is peculiar.   I'd only go that route if I thought Portis was a useful player who might develop.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 14, 2020, 01:11:59 PM
Quote
  the Knicks fly in and out of Westchester County Airport as opposed to one of the major airports in the New York/New Jersey area. Players who live in Westchester can drive themselves home in about 10 minutes after road trips, according to a source.

While the drive from Westchester to the Garden can be difficult during rush hour, having an easier commute from the airport to home or home to the practice facility is a counterbalance.

Though they could fly in/out LaGuardia,  but that place used to always be a mess.
Small airports are nice.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 14, 2020, 01:20:19 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 14, 2020, 01:11:59 PM
Quote
  the Knicks fly in and out of Westchester County Airport as opposed to one of the major airports in the New York/New Jersey area. Players who live in Westchester can drive themselves home in about 10 minutes after road trips, according to a source.

While the drive from Westchester to the Garden can be difficult during rush hour, having an easier commute from the airport to home or home to the practice facility is a counterbalance.

Though they could fly in/out LaGuardia,  but that place used to always be a mess.
Small airports are nice.

Well its 41 home games a year driving home vs.....  a lot fewer than 41 nights driving home from the airport. 
And young players don't want to live in Westchester.  That is the assumption made that being near Westchester airport is so great.  For whom?  The real housewives of NY?
Title: Re: The Knicks Brand
Post by: chipstern on February 14, 2020, 01:53:23 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 14, 2020, 12:32:25 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 13, 2020, 10:38:19 PM
DeAndre Jordan, another survivor of Mills' KP trade, wonders aloud as to how cheap the rent must be in Westchester.

Mr. Dolan.

You hired a branding specialist,  who turned out to be the latest in a string of lightweights. 

Rose?

Want to attract top free agents?

If I was making 20 million dollars a year, I might very well like to get a hip Manhattan apartment in a building with a gym.  I might not like to commute one hour to and one hour from our Westchester County practice facility, preferring to use those two hours to, oh, I don't know, play with my kids...TAKE A FUCKING NAP before game time at the Garden.

I mean....DUH.

It's weird that Dolan can't find a gym in the city.  All these Colleges here with teams.  Not one wants to let the Knicks use their gym twice a week?

https://www.sny.tv/knicks/news/nets-deandre-jordan-on-knicks-practice-facility-the-rent-must-be-cheap-out-there/312759222 (https://www.sny.tv/knicks/news/nets-deandre-jordan-on-knicks-practice-facility-the-rent-must-be-cheap-out-there/312759222)

Or.....

Set up a state of the art facility within the Garden.

If players can drive, taxi or limousine  between practices and shoot arounds, and eliminate all of the commuting time between the STATE OF THE ART FACILITY in Westchester, that leaves so much more time to recharge one's batteries and catch up on sleep. 

Travel in the NBA is brutal.   Factor in all those hours wasted commuting to and from Westchester, let alone all of the unnecessary down time for players who are compelled to live in Westchester rather than in Manhattan.

I actually picked up the chief medical cat for the Nyets one night in my taxi, and he detailed all of the steps Nyets management was engaged in to make things easier for players, in terms of physical therapy, rehab, conditioning and connections with the Brooklyn.  community.

Do not underestimate the positivity of a bond between players and community.

Back in the day, the reason the bond between the borough's fans and the Brooklyn Dodgers was so profound is the players lived where their fans did.

Obviously that was a different Brooklyn than today's high rise borough, but simplifying life for your. players, while optimizing  conditioning AND minimizing down time that could better be spent resting or connecting with your fan base is a WIN-WIN.

I mean, I don't care how state of the fucking art the team's practice facility is.

These are your NEW YORK KNICKS....the Westchester Knicks are a farm team.

The Nyets get it.  They represent Brooklyn.

While Dolan seemingly represents the suburbs?

Feel me?

Dolan has enough cash to BBQ a damp elephant.  The money he pissed away on Phil's remaining years or presumably the same on our new branding genius, could better be spent on optimizing living and working conditions for our players.

How many close games come to mind this past season where we seemed fatigued or out of sorts or simply ran out of gas in the fourth quarter.

"The small details, RALPH."
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 14, 2020, 01:58:31 PM
Yeah.  They can just dig down further.  Or maybe get rid of some of those meddlesome tracks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 14, 2020, 02:01:46 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 14, 2020, 12:57:17 PM
I thought the idea was Westchester was supposed to be state of the art.

We couldn't find anyone better than Portis to drop a 1 year $16M deal on?   Last year we hit with Morris.  Get a 2nd year team option like we did by overpaying Portis, in case the guy does well.

Again,  we have plenty of $6M-$8M contracts,  so Ellington is a waste.  Portis for $16M hoping to help a tram dump salary is peculiar.   I'd only go that route if I thought Portis was a useful player who might develop.

"In case the guy does well....."

Problem is what YOU see as doing well.  Your posts drip with general negativity on guys that score 18-20 per 36 and bust their asses.

Try giving just one year and 16 mil to someone you view better than Portis.
Title: Westchester Airport
Post by: chipstern on February 14, 2020, 02:06:43 PM
Yes, LaGuardia is a disaster area.

Presumably when returning to the County Airport from a road trip, the team is gegting home after midnight. 

You can get to midtown Manhattan during off peak hours in 30-45 minutes. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on February 14, 2020, 02:14:38 PM
Why not Lost Batallion Hall on Queens Boulevard?  History there.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 14, 2020, 10:48:08 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 14, 2020, 02:01:46 PM
Try giving just one year and 16 mil to someone you view better than Portis.

The idea that Portis is the epitome of a 1 year signee doesn't hold water.   We just had a much much better Morris at $18M.  There are often guys who don't get the offer they want because the market dried up for whatever reason,  they were coming off injury or poor production,  etc. who are willing to bet on themselves on a one year to go for a big contract the following year (when more teams will have cap space).

Besides I don't really buy in that having a $16M contract will lead to anything.   We just had exactly that with Portis (even better since he was a team option/ending contract)  and nothing happened.

I want to use that Portis/Ellington money on a starter,  preferably a starting G.

I'm okay keeping Portis if we miss out on a quality FA, think he's valuable to us and tertiarily might make good trade ballast.

Portis is an okay backup,  with poor defense,  high inconsistency,  a tendency to make dumb plays.  Some nice underlying skills.   If he was more consistent,  I could live with his flaws.   The other issue is he plays the same position as our only legit starter.

I give Portis a Big Shrug.   Hope we could do better for the dollar.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 14, 2020, 11:26:22 PM
My posts are highly negative on guys who play turnstyle D,  take bad shots,  are inconsistent,  make bad plays.  No matter what their per min scoring might be.

Maybe on a more stable team, with a PG and system in place and a clearly defined role,  Portis might be a useful rotation piece.   With none of that,  Portis flaws show out,  and his passing ability and pretty good outside stroke don't amount to much.   He did rebound consistently well for us.   The rest of his skills were flashes and teases.

You get very enamored of scoring.   I'm looking for consistency and playing good basketball,  not just one aspect.

Jimmer and Austin Rivers and Tim jr. get you excited. Flashy scorers who add little else.

And yes,  give Rivers credit for becoming a pesky defender as his outside shot slumps.   While Tim is finally having a pretty good year.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 14, 2020, 11:34:53 PM
Overall,  we prefer/favor very different players.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 15, 2020, 12:34:38 AM
Real Plus/Minus:
Knox 489/490.
Jr. Smith 481.

Lost season for both.   Maybe give both of them a 2 week stretch of starting.   See if they can figure anything out with more minutes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 15, 2020, 12:43:28 AM
lol, Miller ain't gonna do that unless somebody makes him.
The eye test hasn't deceived. These two, sadly, have been not just terrible, but stunningly terrible.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 15, 2020, 12:47:12 AM
Nice night for Barrett. He’s good when nobody is guarding him.
Title: Chico and my doggie
Post by: carlos123 on February 15, 2020, 02:43:34 AM
Hey Les, you now sign off with an adoring message to Stoute. What about Chico? He’s gonna be pissed 😡

He may even tell you to fuck off
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 15, 2020, 12:34:55 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 15, 2020, 12:34:38 AM
Real Plus/Minus:
Knox 489/490.
Jr. Smith 481.
Lost season for both.   Maybe give both of them a 2 week stretch of starting.   See if they can figure anything out with more minutes.
Quote from: lesterluv on February 15, 2020, 12:43:28 AM
lol, Miller ain't gonna do that unless somebody makes him.
The eye test hasn't deceived. These two, sadly, have been not just terrible, but stunningly terrible.

I thought Knox's shot (and confidence) seemed improved at the top of the season. That's all gone now. And when he goes to the basket, he gets the ball stripped an awful lot. For all his grace — and he can move fluidly — he doesn't seem as quick as the guys around him.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on February 15, 2020, 02:04:54 PM
Knox was a typical Mills pick. Next in order regardless of position or need.  His lack of basketball IQ was amazing.  Knix needed shot makers not athletes. 
Title: 27 points, 6 boards, 5 assists, 3 steals
Post by: chipstern on February 15, 2020, 03:00:51 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 15, 2020, 12:47:12 AM
Nice night for Barrett. He’s good when nobody is guarding him.

CUTE

Defended.

Rebounded.

Facilitated assists.

Ran the floor and scored in every way possible (except of course, jump shots).

RJ is a skilled athlete and a  comitted competitor who stood out among his contemporaries.

He has,a long way to grow, but in an organization worthy of withering sarcasm, RJ is not the Knicks' problem,  nor as per the Prophet Kiid's eternal snark, is he in play as a trade chip. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 15, 2020, 03:11:03 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 15, 2020, 03:00:51 PM
He has,a long way to grow, but in an organization worthy of withering sarcasm, RJ is not the Knicks' problem,  nor as per the Prophet Kiid's eternal snark, is he in play as a trade chip.

I agree wholeheartedly with both of these propositions.

So how do we turn Barrett, Frank, Knox, Payton, and Randle into players who can reliably hit an outside shot?
Title: Ommmmmmmmmmmmmm
Post by: chipstern on February 15, 2020, 03:44:24 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 15, 2020, 03:11:03 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 15, 2020, 03:00:51 PM
He has,a long way to grow, but in an organization worthy of withering sarcasm, RJ is not the Knicks' problem,  nor as per the Prophet Kiid's eternal snark, is he in play as a trade chip.

I agree wholeheartedly with both of these propositions.

So how do we turn Barrett, Frank, Knox, Payton, and Randle into players who can reliably hit an outside shot?

There are some questions even I can't answer.
Title: Knicks Knox
Post by: carlos123 on February 15, 2020, 03:45:40 PM
I’m afraid Knox is kind of a hopeless case for the Knicks. 😩
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 15, 2020, 04:03:37 PM
Garland is an excellent shooter

Hachimura is an excellent player
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 15, 2020, 04:21:29 PM
Garland shoots .394 from the field. Rui shoots .236 from 3
Title: Re: Knicks Knox
Post by: chipstern on February 15, 2020, 04:26:18 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 15, 2020, 03:45:40 PM
I’m afraid Knox is kind of a hopeless case for the Knicks. 😩

Bullshit
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 15, 2020, 08:48:29 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 15, 2020, 04:21:29 PM
Garland shoots .394 from the field. Rui shoots .236 from 3

You dont think Darius Garland is an excellent shooter?

We know you know Rui is a stud - but keep being a sad sort - its expected.
Title: Re: Knicks Knox
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 15, 2020, 08:49:09 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 15, 2020, 04:26:18 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 15, 2020, 03:45:40 PM
I’m afraid Knox is kind of a hopeless case for the Knicks. 😩

Bullshit

we will wait while you explain yourself
Title: Re: Knicks Knox
Post by: carlos123 on February 15, 2020, 10:31:30 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 15, 2020, 04:26:18 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 15, 2020, 03:45:40 PM
I’m afraid Knox is kind of a hopeless case for the Knicks. 😩

Bullshit

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Yy0qez49fk3v0X0ckOhy1bV4zoK_TXekdIYzLAjPOZofjHcaQe7i6UgO2_uGxB6oNvK5keIO5OxlKOWuN9JdJGylWJ38dGsT0ewHoqQJ1oE3RGeE1ho4_T4UgQDx8iiK6QGJNmyYBWETwNwE2TZiwp2bFmRTk20HlH7Ea4xh_Va3cim5WysJ9hgY6U9AK60vnSaPkWAwyfBycnZPYpxPcv9YCr5L6HHhIZ-bbDU2ICj0R5Vu99v8QOGnmgqL-6DMGAQ4eEFtQTtHITq2wjkU9uN4CfG2JqXTbd0rDPHm7XRVZiyt79yybsodKPfsP1GrZBMoKW-tdIB4Rb71k9wU39qoqGj5PyaE5yqCVK8KdVH7PqWJGDcEHDJ_KBZf3KwriJuOheQSp07HeSzhFTe5J9zdmF819PB5h3eia53_9vTrJrp2iqdQ9FD6emYS5dDvi7kvXKANnwQJis3K_URjl0fUrt--QnvYjTRUFUmYu8Yy9gfbYisnu5Jjq14qHsl0Ykdu95wzC0Ym-A5HM_BkXIIaw47rju0AIV2xdKXf9uAziiXFhoBM0E1lFIHjvkR5f8KixoCL8knjiwAqilHPvtM0TuR7dxPgaxi0_6dFiyq3GpMMEoDXbl3_7QLn2-xUfAHjSVdrC6eD1raVbWF9NgZiHKOvIksjHflbfHqmCNXmbwO22L2qEo6IMFp14ydxxUO99VcrTVHkIHkGMesuIxXDnjNUI35m_RdBaxoEVMgKK_s=w700-h506-no)

PS. I'm still a Positive Pussy, though that may change if they fire coach. Just didn't want to bother modifying the pic.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 16, 2020, 12:27:22 AM
Quote from: luee on February 15, 2020, 02:04:54 PM
Knox was a typical Mills pick. Next in order regardless of position or need.  His lack of basketball IQ was amazing.  Knix needed shot makers not athletes.

Well, we certainly needed an SF.   I thought Knix went bold taking the 19 year old freshman,  instead of one of the older more polished Bridges.  I hoped they knew what they were doing.   

The guy we missed on was Shai who was getting buzz and moving up draft boards late. Don't know how much we considered him.

Knox was a high risk/high reward pick.   You can see by his physique and motivation why they went for him.   However his motor isn't great,  his BBIQ not there, and his confidence comes and goes.  I was surprised Knix didn't play it safe,  but kinda liked the riskier higher upside pick.

He's trying to develop the 3 as his first solid NBA skill, which could open up more driving and cutting.

I think we gave Knox too many minutes last year.   And too little this year,  partly the roster crunch at F,  but also Miller needing to win to try to keep his job.  And yes, also Knox's lack of doing good things on a basketball court.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 16, 2020, 11:52:27 AM
The problem is then we drafted another no outside shot,  poor defender in RJB.  One of those two drafts we needed to hit on a 3&D wing.

Hunter looked pretty good at least against us.

Knox and Barnett duplicate each other's weakness. Also,  likely play the same position,  until Knox fills out and becomes more of a PF.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 16, 2020, 03:47:59 PM
You don't pass on a guy like RJ Barrett because you took a Kevin Knox last season.  99% of young players drafted into the NBA struggle in their teenage years playing against grown veterans.  So rather than say it was a mistake to take a poor defending rookie after drafting a poor defending rookie one season ago  (Wasn't Frank our defensive investment a year prior?)  for RJ and Kevin lets try to project how strong this DUO will be in 2-3 years.  They already have NBA bodies.  Now they need to work on skills like team defense and passing and rebounding ... skills they weren't known for in High School because they were hoop getters only.

I feel bullish on this duo.  If RJ's future is at the 3, why can't Knox be a stretchy 4?  We're going away from positions anyway.  Teams need guys who on offense can space and guys who can drive.  Knox does both.  He needs to keep getting stronger so when on defense he can push off opposing players the positions on the court where they flourish.  Zion he is not, but even Giannis had the ball yanked away from him when Zion flexed.  I think we should not have signed Portis and instead given all those minutes to Kevin.
Title: BO on NO Deeeee
Post by: chipstern on February 16, 2020, 04:35:01 PM
Bo keeps asserting how RJ is a lousy defender.

Not feeling it. 

As for the abject Knox regression everyone is cosigning.

He has improved as a passer....is clearly working on getting to the rack and offering more offensive looks abd wrinkles.

Inconsistent?  There's a surprise. Look at his minutes?  Any pattern, any consistentcy?

So, let's write off a rook and a sophomore.

Meanwhile, leave us sing the praises of Moe Harkless and trade for Chris Paul. 

We appear to disagree.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 16, 2020, 05:06:12 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 16, 2020, 12:27:22 AM
Quote from: luee on February 15, 2020, 02:04:54 PM
Knox was a typical Mills pick. Next in order regardless of position or need.  His lack of basketball IQ was amazing.  Knix needed shot makers not athletes.

Well, we certainly needed an SF.   I thought Knix went bold taking the 19 year old freshman,  instead of one of the older more polished Bridges.  I hoped they knew what they were doing.   

The guy we missed on was Shai who was getting buzz and moving up draft boards late. Don't know how much we considered him.

Knox was a high risk/high reward pick.   You can see by his physique and motivation why they went for him.   However his motor isn't great,  his BBIQ not there, and his confidence comes and goes.  I was surprised Knix didn't play it safe,  but kinda liked the riskier higher upside pick.

He's trying to develop the 3 as his first solid NBA skill, which could open up more driving and cutting.

I think we gave Knox too many minutes last year.   And too little this year,  partly the roster crunch at F,  but also Miller needing to win to try to keep his job.  And yes, also Knox's lack of doing good things on a basketball court.

SGA



Weaknesses

Thin frame is a real concern when defending power guards/wings. Can get bulldozed by bigger guys
who can put their shoulder into him. Needs to get stronger in the upper and lower body.
Attempting fewer 3s per 40 minutes than Mohamed Bamba. How much can teams trust his jumper when he doesn’t even trust it himself?
Drop step on the ball could improve. Less quick-twitch and more fluid athletically. Will need to make sure he’s positioned correctly so he doesn’t get blown by.
Relies on forward momentum for 3-point shot. Struggles to hit shots from spot-up situations.
Poor pull-up/step-back shooter, at least when he attempts to do things in one motion. Can’t rise into pull-up shot; needs to slow down and stop. Allows defense to recover.
Sometimes communicates poorly when defending pick-and-roll. Needs to make sure he’s switching when he needs to be.
Had turnover issues at times throughout the season (4.3 TOV/40 in November, 3.8 TOV/40 in January). Improved as the year went on, but has to prove he can take care of the ball consistently.
Legitimate questions about how his penetration-dependent game translates to the NBA without an elite first step. Will he be able to get into the teeth of defenses?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 16, 2020, 08:23:36 PM
I have no inclination to try and find month-by-month defensive numbers, but to the eye he’s gotten better at making help plays and securing rebounds and getting things moving up the court. He still blows primary responsibilities way more than is acceptable. He’d benefit from filling out to a Reggie Lewis type physique and matching up more against stretch 4’s.

A little size, especially if it includes a strengthened base, might help him get to spots, hold his ground, and hit more consistently, which would in turn improve his offensive game.

I’m for drafting guys who’s fierce winning mentality and heads-up-ness has lead to exceptional winning for their programs given expectations.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 16, 2020, 08:27:20 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 16, 2020, 08:23:36 PM
I have no inclination to try and find month-by-month defensive numbers, but to the eye he’s gotten better at making help plays and securing rebounds and getting things moving up the court. He still blows primary responsibilities way more than is acceptable. He’d benefit from filling out to a Reggie Lewis type physique and matching up more against stretch 4’s.

A little size, especially if it includes a strengthened base, might help him get to spots, hold his ground, and hit more consistently, which would in turn improve his offensive game.

I’m for drafting guys who’s fierce winning mentality and heads-up-ness has lead to exceptional winning for their programs given expectations.

Word.
Title: Priority #1 find a PG
Post by: Kam on February 16, 2020, 10:07:37 PM
Quote
With Rose’s consultation, the Knicks went hard after Golden State scoring point guard D’Angelo Russell at the trade deadline 10 days ago but came up empty. Russell wound up in Minnesota and the Knicks will have to continue their search in the offseason.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 17, 2020, 03:41:25 AM
Quote from: Kam on February 16, 2020, 03:47:59 PM
You don't pass on a guy like RJ Barrett because you took a Kevin Knox last season.  99% of young players drafted into the NBA struggle in their teenage years playing against grown veterans.  So rather than say it was a mistake to take a poor defending rookie after drafting a poor defending rookie one season ago  (Wasn't Frank our defensive investment a year prior?)  for RJ and Kevin lets try to project how strong this DUO will be in 2-3 years.  They already have NBA bodies.  Now they need to work on skills like team defense and passing and rebounding ... skills they weren't known for in High School because they were hoop getters only.

I feel bullish on this duo.  If RJ's future is at the 3, why can't Knox be a stretchy 4?  We're going away from positions anyway.  Teams need guys who on offense can space and guys who can drive.  Knox does both.  He needs to keep getting stronger so when on defense he can push off opposing players the positions on the court where they flourish.  Zion he is not, but even Giannis had the ball yanked away from him when Zion flexed.  I think we should not have signed Portis and instead given all those minutes to Kevin.

I love this vision, but it's loony in its unfounded optimism. How much of Knox do you need to see? There are lots of young guys throughout the league who snag our attention. They might not have developed a complete game yet, but they do certain things impressively, fiercely. Sometimes it impacts a game right away; other times, it's just glimpses that make you wonder what kind of force they'll be in the future.

Where do you see that with Knox?

Right now, he's simple struggling to have a decent NBA career. This idea that he might one day be a star, or even a starter, requires more than just "getting stronger." Yeah, he's still super young. But we've seen enough to know that, at this point, the odds are not in his favor.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 17, 2020, 09:49:36 AM
Quote from: elephant on February 17, 2020, 03:41:25 AM
Quote from: Kam on February 16, 2020, 03:47:59 PM
You don't pass on a guy like RJ Barrett because you took a Kevin Knox last season.  99% of young players drafted into the NBA struggle in their teenage years playing against grown veterans.  So rather than say it was a mistake to take a poor defending rookie after drafting a poor defending rookie one season ago  (Wasn't Frank our defensive investment a year prior?)  for RJ and Kevin lets try to project how strong this DUO will be in 2-3 years.  They already have NBA bodies.  Now they need to work on skills like team defense and passing and rebounding ... skills they weren't known for in High School because they were hoop getters only.

I feel bullish on this duo.  If RJ's future is at the 3, why can't Knox be a stretchy 4?  We're going away from positions anyway.  Teams need guys who on offense can space and guys who can drive.  Knox does both.  He needs to keep getting stronger so when on defense he can push off opposing players the positions on the court where they flourish.  Zion he is not, but even Giannis had the ball yanked away from him when Zion flexed.  I think we should not have signed Portis and instead given all those minutes to Kevin.

I love this vision, but it's loony in its unfounded optimism. How much of Knox do you need to see? There are lots of young guys throughout the league who snag our attention. They might not have developed a complete game yet, but they do certain things impressively, fiercely. Sometimes it impacts a game right away; other times, it's just glimpses that make you wonder what kind of force they'll be in the future.

Where do you see that with Knox?

Right now, he's simple struggling to have a decent NBA career. This idea that he might one day be a star, or even a starter, requires more than just "getting stronger." Yeah, he's still super young. But we've seen enough to know that, at this point, the odds are not in his favor.

He is 20.5 years of age.  Let him grow.   He showed flashes last season of his uber-athleticism (Knicks never have any gazelles and here we have one) and he has shown this year that he can be a team player, throwing lobs and swatting shots.  I don't see the rush to judge him as a bust while we give the older Ntilikina every benefit of any and all doubt.
Title: Jay Wright
Post by: Kam on February 17, 2020, 10:19:36 AM
Rose / Cho  / Wright
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 17, 2020, 12:37:13 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 16, 2020, 03:47:59 PM
You don't pass on a guy like RJ Barrett because you took a Kevin Knox last season.


I'm not sure RJ Barrett is what you think he is.
Looks to me like a 2-man draft and RJB was in the next tier.
So we could have pulled Kiid's favored trade down and snagged a Culver or Hunter and got something extra.

I feel like our draft position suckered us into not getting what we needed.
In the last two drafts we should have gotten one solid 3&D wing.  Either Bridges and RJ Barrett or Knox and Hunter/Culver.  Two high draft picks and we didn't get a defender or a 3 point shooter.

Quote
I feel bullish on this duo.  If RJ's future is at the 3, why can't Knox be a stretchy 4?  We're going away from positions anyway.
   

That's how I see it panning out if we continue forward with both of them.
With Knox as the 3 baller and RJB the cutter/driver.  Might even be good 5 years from now ...

Quote
I think we should not have signed Portis and instead given all those minutes to Kevin.

Portis is/was a youngish guy with variety of talents.  Ultimately we're hoping one of Portis/Knox can be a starter or key rotation guy.  I've grown disenchanted with Portis due to his weak D, inconsistency and dumb plays.  But I still see it as a worthwhile one-year tryout.  Even if it did retard Knox's development this year. And Knox might have underperformed without Portis around.  We can afford to be patient with Knox.  And he got to go up against plenty of vets in practice.
Of course our roster was imbalanced and that didn't help anyone.

I still think most of our players will look better and develop faster with a quality starting PG.  Even Elf has made others and the team look decent.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 17, 2020, 08:59:24 PM
I think it’s time we see Wooten in some capacity. I’m also starting to pull for Obi Toppin falling to us in the Draft.

Rockets did well in filling out their 5 out frontcourt with Carroll and Green.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 17, 2020, 10:06:42 PM
Frontcourt. That's Rockettes new C rotation!   (I kid)

Worth a look for sure.   If nothing else hope one or both can eat up some regular season mins.   HOU will see if either can still pop some 3's.   DMC did all right for BKY last year.   Not sure why Spurs couldn't find a role for him.  He'll defend and doesn't need the ball,  which is key in HOU. 

Jeff Green is fine enough as long as you font rely on him,  especially in ghd playoffs. He has Tim Thomas disease.   But he can look good some nights.

I assume Dant will prefer Green's scoring and athleticism over DMC.

I think HOU earlier waived Gerald Green.  Is that right?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 18, 2020, 02:37:09 AM
Gerald is gone. I think he’s slated to be out with injury all this year. Enter Jeff to pick up slack.
Title: Redraft 2010s with perfect hindsight
Post by: Kam on February 18, 2020, 02:45:05 PM
https://elitesportsny.com/2020/02/18/new-york-knicks-redrafting-the-last-6-first-rounders-hello-core-4/ (https://elitesportsny.com/2020/02/18/new-york-knicks-redrafting-the-last-6-first-rounders-hello-core-4/)

2011
The pick: SG Iman Shumpert, Georgia Tech (No. 17 overall)
Redraft: SG Jimmy Butler, Marquette (No. 30 overall)

2013
The pick: SG Tim Hardaway Jr., Michigan (No. 24 overall)
Redraft: C Rudy Gobert, France (No. 27 overall)

2015
The pick: C Kristaps Porzingis, Latvia (No. 4 overall)
Redraft: SG Devin Booker, Kentucky (No. 13 overall)

2017
The Pick: Frank Ntilikina, PG France (7)
Redraft: Bam Adebayo, PF/C Kentucky (14)

2018
The Pick: Kevin Knox, SF Kentucky (9)
Redraft: Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, Kentucky PG/SG (12)

2019
The Pick: RJ Barrett, SG/SF, Duke (3)
Redraft: RJ Barrett
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 18, 2020, 03:16:47 PM
And then who would be the guys our front office traded them for?
Title: We could've been
Post by: Kam on February 18, 2020, 05:04:51 PM
The Kentucky Knicks!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 18, 2020, 05:05:22 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 18, 2020, 03:16:47 PM
And then who would be the guys our front office traded them for?

Future draft picks of course! 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 18, 2020, 05:05:50 PM
We probably would've traded Booker for KP.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 18, 2020, 10:14:14 PM
I remember seeing Butler in limited minutes early in his rook year and thinking that he had a lot of energy and a great physique.  Intriguing.

Shai was seen as having flaws, maybe being something akin to Elf, a possible starter or just a solid backup.  But in the last week or two run-up to the draft Shai was getting good buzz for his workouts.  Bumping him nearly into our range.  Would've been a great addition for us.

I'm very much not a draftnik, but I'm pretty sure I even mentioned him in a What about this guy? way.  Since we bottomed out so thoroughly, we really needed to hit on a Donovan Mitchell or Shai or Bam.  Best we've done is RJB, who is interesting but needs to correct a lot.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 19, 2020, 03:33:30 AM
Given the picks we had, I liked the way that all three past drafts played out:

Needing a PG we had a choice of Frank or Jr. Smith. 
With Zach Collins, Don Mitch and Bam as 3 of the next 5 picks.

'18: needing an SF (and much else) we had a choice of Knox, Bridges x 2, Porter, or a PG in Shai or even Zhaire.

'19: 3rd pick so we had our choice of the field, although the Top 2 look like franchise guys.  RJB, Culver, Hunter, Rui, Jax Hayes, etc.

So we had good draft slots, just didn't hit on any of the 3 picks (jury still out on RJB and last years draft class). 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 19, 2020, 06:13:54 AM
Wow, Pistons bought out RegJax.
Intending to sign with LAC!
Damn, Clips made moves.
First MaMo, now Jax.
Nice.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 19, 2020, 08:40:54 AM
All Star break wayyyyyyyy long.

Clippers come back and then play just 4 times in the 4 succeeding days after having 6 days off (most teams play 2 of 4).

What will Knicks look like the last stretch?  Dosome new names get run?  Do vets (see Kanter, 2019) get tossed aside?

---

On coaching front - THIBS said to be pushing strongly for the job

Looks like a 3-horse race.  JVG has an "if I am the selection, fine - but I don't have to do a dance for anybody" approach.  Mark Jackson meanwhile has a gaggle of friends working behind the scenes for him.

Will there be another candidate oitside the three (I am assuming WRIGHT is no longer a candidate after recent news - though a crapload of cash always talks)

Title: Lakers might be takers for more Moe
Post by: Kam on February 19, 2020, 01:22:09 PM
Lakers interested in Harkless if he is bought out.
Will he spill the Clippers secret sauce?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 19, 2020, 05:19:51 PM
 Hark don't want no buyout.  Playing in the Mecca   his home  area.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 19, 2020, 08:36:17 PM
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2876876-exposing-nbas-worst-defender-at-every-position (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2876876-exposing-nbas-worst-defender-at-every-position)


Knox the only Knick mentioned, though as a step up from Justin Jackson.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 20, 2020, 08:52:52 AM
Is the break over?

Jeeeee-zus.

27 left.  We should win about 8

We should pick about 4th

We should be in line to take LaMelo unless Hawks want him.

Ball and Ball backcourt by '21-'22
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 20, 2020, 09:06:14 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 20, 2020, 08:52:52 AM
Is the break over?

Jeeeee-zus.

27 left.  We should win about 8

We should pick about 4th

We should be in line to take LaMelo unless Hawks want him.

Ball and Ball backcourt by '21-'22

Will fit right in.

His shot a work in progress.

Like RJ.

His father a jerk in progress.  Maybe Dolan will give him a spot on celebrity row next to Oakley. 
Title: I like
Post by: Kam on February 20, 2020, 09:12:14 AM
Haliburton
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 20, 2020, 11:27:48 AM
Havent seen him yet

That would be a trade down, as would another PG, Hargraves of Kentucky

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 20, 2020, 11:29:03 AM
I like watching Cole Anthony.  Shame UNC will be missing the tournament.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 20, 2020, 12:08:48 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 20, 2020, 11:27:48 AM
Havent seen him yet

That would be a trade down, as would another PG, Hargraves of Kentucky

He is everything we hoped Frank would be.  An exceptional floor general with high passing IQ who doesn't turn it over.  And he can shoot the three.  But he fractured his left wrist and will miss the rest of his soph season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 20, 2020, 12:35:49 PM
Oh well - he will be a good Sun or Spur if he doesnt go back to school.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 20, 2020, 12:38:42 PM
BTW - I said Hargraves - meant HAGANS.

Devon Dotson of Kansas has also been impressive (no relation to our guy)

I'd gather that none of them are as talented as L-Mel.  Ball also has Simmons-like size.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 20, 2020, 12:58:41 PM
I see Haliburton listed at 6-5 (Ball is 6-8)

Interesting

I am looking at Paul Reed of Depaul with our Clippers pick (unless Precious Achiawu falls)

Cassius Winston with Charlotte's #2 - though I havent given it too much thought (Virginia athletic big would fit if we dont get Reed - and Latvian PG is interesting)
Title: Knicks Knox tweaks shot to nix shots not knocked down
Post by: Kam on February 20, 2020, 04:59:30 PM
Knox would go on to mention that he adjusted his shooting mechanics over the All-Star break, hoping to improve on his 36.8 percent shooting from the field.

"One hundred percent," Knox said. "That's something I worked on, just changing up a little mechanics on my shot a little bit. I think I'm a good shooter, percentages don't show, but I know that I'm a good shooter. People around me know that I really shoot the ball. Just little tweaks here and there to my shot that I did over All-Star break and these last two practices, and I think it feels really well. Get back into the game, get some game shots tomorrow, and the rest of the season we'll see how it goes."
Title: Pistons buy out Markief Morris
Post by: Kam on February 21, 2020, 04:02:18 PM
Lakers interested

Title: Payton out
Post by: Kam on February 21, 2020, 04:12:28 PM
Beef Wellington available
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 21, 2020, 11:17:46 PM
The baby guards actually did a nice job overall. The absolute rebounding dominance and our inability to contain forwards who can put the ball on the floor proved too much in a hard fought effort. When playing the Pacers, if you knock out Warren in the first half your chance of winning really improves. He has really come into his own in that team under McMillan.

How do Randle, Barrett, and Knox learn ball security over the offseason?

Title: Re: Youth was served
Post by: facilitatorn on February 22, 2020, 03:52:18 AM
More than 1/2 the minutes played were given to guys we’ve taken in the last 3 drafts.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 22, 2020, 10:35:57 AM
Fucking Knox is a horror on both ends.

Nice run at the end

Still cant get my head around Frank starting the second half after being so seriously outplayed in Half 1.  7 point lead grew to 17 - and alas - too tall a hill to climb, even given late heroics.
Title: Ntilikina motto
Post by: Kam on February 22, 2020, 11:22:39 AM
Suck until you're clutch!
Title: Randle
Post by: Kam on February 22, 2020, 11:23:47 AM
Randle played like warm garbage.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on February 22, 2020, 12:35:24 PM
Intesresing box score from last night's Celts-TW game.

Don't recall ever seeing one quite like it before

https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=401161472 (https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=401161472)


https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/celtics/2020/02/22/celtics/vd3IaDfFMmusFSLJSA4TvJ/story.html (https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/celtics/2020/02/22/celtics/vd3IaDfFMmusFSLJSA4TvJ/story.html)

MINNEAPOLIS — On Jan. 20, 1960, the Celtics stormed to a 144-126 win over the Knicks.

Bob Cousy, Bill Russell, Tommy Heinsohn, and Bill Sharman — future Hall of Famers who that year would lead Boston to its second of eight consecutive NBA titles — all reached the 25-point mark in the game. More than 60 years passed without that happening again.

But on Friday night, with All-Star point guard Kemba Walker out with a sore left knee, the Celtics sent a new foursome into their record books as they snagged a 127-117 win over the Timberwolves. Gordon Hayward (29 points), Jayson Tatum (28), Jaylen Brown (25), and Daniel Theis (25) led a powerful performance by the starters, who combined for 117 of the 127 points.

Box score to the Jan 20, 1960 Celts-Knicks game.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/196001200BOS.html (https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/196001200BOS.html)
Title: Ottoman is bottom man
Post by: Kam on February 22, 2020, 12:59:29 PM
Damn my man can't even get 10 minutes off the bench.
Title: Re: Ottoman is bottom man
Post by: bankshot1 on February 22, 2020, 04:11:51 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 22, 2020, 12:59:29 PM
Damn my man can't even get 10 minutes off the bench.

Didn't really need him last night, (no KAT) plus Theis had a huge game
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 22, 2020, 04:48:59 PM
He had his stretch of being over played, over played, and losing. He’s in a good role as a Celtic and often steps up when called on.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 22, 2020, 07:17:51 PM
Enes in the playoffs is the BIG MIDDLE FINGER to the Knicks.

Looks like C's play Brooklyn or Indiana.  Test either way.
Title: The Kamster misses The Kanter
Post by: carlos123 on February 22, 2020, 10:47:01 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on February 22, 2020, 04:11:51 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 22, 2020, 12:59:29 PM
Damn my man can't even get 10 minutes off the bench.

Didn't really need him last night, (no KAT) plus Theis had a huge game

7 boards in 9 minutes wasn't too shabby.

But what's really important is that the Kamster misses Enes, and we had not discussed him in a while...

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/9MLd4taU78MYzYur-Z99p2abXEQn4ZNHfHyoSFHlVPMfZceVbvYDjF928660uoXZ6ebPQNGY7p4VidoRG5qpdN6uSE6QPDAPtK6O1ho7lRuM68N5f8EDkA5M5eK2T2ceRb4GfWHWTkDpye0KOtxWBhsO-FtSLIf4-wFsf7C9zrJHznfZiDxSaOmKHWqovZn9oEKe3vzSZtQ5S9HO6ek-zsYrUPMkrngRAaxsHN_exPPpTPVgSLsdRcwVa9L4BO52DfWwkd3ufgZYegrheqlA1SbWkGDApTQbTJvwz_EWCLvkBZKvaw3UKFfkPyBK67A0GSb9p6RQy6eYHHYCnBwQz7plHrXIEmu9YQ3ubLVyJElPYXJhH-107t2NSLuHJDLYVe370dH-vWHPNbq3XMXkJwNy5GPTU-Cav3aLrq8zOo4ZvemCtSX6bXLMljjif1flEfEiD4Iog2-I1_aBdYgWknlqQ7SuciUzuzgDnh25Gx8RVYzP4RzoGx1I4DkcsDgdQiu_GXagId4wYgEuMEGoxh3DJi_JFrY-lFaOTIdvQ8AzmBVqi-phN4hClsAyDn42eDdq7gp5YpM37uetUCydsBiNtm1Ti_99iyYsl0mfv-wrrvHZbJ1w69ho57nL-8PInkG22Tdm8VqR0tp7Tpr6w_XCkfSekG0e_lTj0FrC_bP07R5puOWqNWjruEYZDxNG-0VFeN5kbl2kfaS-I_4QQWyCPXCZjZk_iX4gyrPJw5Brbpo=w1136-h757-no)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 24, 2020, 06:59:15 PM
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ...

Forum asleep.

Game tonight, gents.
Title: After 1 quarter
Post by: Kam on February 24, 2020, 08:42:48 PM
Barrett has 14 pts 4 rebs 3 assists
Title: v. Rockets?
Post by: carlos123 on February 24, 2020, 10:41:12 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 24, 2020, 06:59:15 PM
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ...

Forum asleep.

Game tonight, gents.

Too predictable
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 25, 2020, 02:20:07 AM
That was our pretty good outing considering we used our third best PG (who had his best game of the season). Youth was served. Hopefully we see some more of Trier.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 25, 2020, 03:19:17 PM
Trier!

He can have Knox minutes
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 25, 2020, 06:44:38 PM
No argument here.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 25, 2020, 08:18:31 PM
Knox has a chance to be worse than Mike Sweetney.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 25, 2020, 11:09:07 PM
At least he’ll always be better than Jimmer.

Let the kid buy a drink at least before you close the book on him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 25, 2020, 11:56:34 PM
Speaking of things to be patient about...

http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2020/2/25/21153163/kenny-wooten-hurt-his-finger-and-is-probably-out-for-the-rest-of-the-season (http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2020/2/25/21153163/kenny-wooten-hurt-his-finger-and-is-probably-out-for-the-rest-of-the-season)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 26, 2020, 02:42:27 AM
At least he’ll always be better than Jimmer.


heh


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMXOZ0ASkKg

https://www.basketball-reference.com/international/players/jimmer-fredette-1.html
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 26, 2020, 09:55:12 PM
In a winding NBA career he never in any category surpassed his rookie numbers of 1.2 boards, 1.8 dimes, and 7.6 ppg. Glad he’s finding better luck overseas.

Knox has dipped down quite a bit and needs to get himself out of Jimmer territory.

Nice to see a Trier revival

Nice game from Mitch

Nice second half from Portis. He sort of makes sense as a front court Terrance Ross

Terrible game from Payton. Nice to see him back.

I almost think Julius & Bobby are totally redundant.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on February 27, 2020, 01:08:31 AM
Celts just finished a really tough 2 weeks mostly on the road and mostly against the best of the West and went 5-2, and generally played real solid hoops.

No one wil want to play them in a 7-gamer.

And Tatum is becoming that guy-a fucking 2-way beast
 
 

Title: Celtics
Post by: carlos123 on February 27, 2020, 01:19:16 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on February 27, 2020, 01:08:31 AM
Celts just finished a really tough 2 weeks mostly on the road and mostly against the best of the West and went 5-2, and generally played real solid hoops.

No one wil want to play them in a 7-gamer.

And Tatum is becoming that guy-a fucking 2-way beast

Gloating, huh?

Well, I’ll have you know that the Knix may become competitive someday in the next 100 years, if they last that long.

And, most importantly, Chico knows that the Phillies won that famous trade for Fultz.
Title: Re: Celtics
Post by: bankshot1 on February 27, 2020, 01:33:32 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 27, 2020, 01:19:16 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on February 27, 2020, 01:08:31 AM
Celts just finished a really tough 2 weeks mostly on the road and mostly against the best of the West and went 5-2, and generally played real solid hoops.

No one wil want to play them in a 7-gamer.

And Tatum is becoming that guy-a fucking 2-way beast

Gloating, huh?

Well, I’ll have you know that the Knix may become competitive someday in the next 100 years, if they last that long.

And, most importantly, Chico knows that the Phillies won that famous trade for Fultz.

Not gloating, just happy Carlos-the Celts are playing solid 2-way unselfish hoops and are a blast to watch again.

And while I'm not a Knick fan, I do feel for you guys, I'm serious.

You guys are great hoops fans but are stuck in purgatory,

The Dolan circle of Hell, where all your shots clank off the front-rim.

I might have been tweaking Chico a little on Tatum.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 27, 2020, 10:48:50 AM
I always have '69.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 27, 2020, 01:46:21 PM
In his past 15 games, Randle is shooting 10.5 percent from 3.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 27, 2020, 02:39:06 PM
I would love to know who - which coach in particular - would be credited if one of our shooters improved.
Title: Trier
Post by: chipstern on February 27, 2020, 04:27:38 PM
Alonzo with 15 points in 16 minutes.

But, yeah, on a team that struggles to score,  let's keep him nailed to the bench because of his....defense. 

And let him walk as a free agent.

So much for player development.

We might be having this discussion 15 years from now and wondering why we ever let Trevor Ariza...er...I mean Alonzo Trier go?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 27, 2020, 04:46:52 PM
Trier more Langston Galloway than Trev Ariza, but we didn't really need to bring in both Ellington and Bullocks when Trier was also competing with Dotson.   Trier is a decent scorer who needs to tighten up his game.   I just want us to keep at least one of Trier/Dot (and one of Franc/Jr. Smith for the long term.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 27, 2020, 06:00:54 PM
Please post when Trier has a nothing game
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 27, 2020, 07:58:41 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 27, 2020, 06:00:54 PM
Please post when Trier has a nothing game
B
Please post when Jimmer has an NBA game
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: chipstern on February 27, 2020, 07:59:42 PM
The bloom has faded from Mike Miller. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 27, 2020, 08:15:21 PM
So we're playing Philly when their two stars are out, and they're kicking our ass.

In short, we stink.

And we're boring.

Today I was thinking how only one person in Knick management (eventually) lost their job after Porzingis bailed.

That's fucked up. The Knicks organization does not know how to assemble, develop or keep talent.

And it just keeps going on and on.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 27, 2020, 08:16:41 PM
I mean, I know these comments are obvious. And tedious.

But occasionally....it all bubbles up again.

Now, where's my drink?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 27, 2020, 08:52:01 PM
lol, so boring, so bad, only Trier is halfway keeping my eyes open.

The other half of the duo who allowed Porzingis to leave should be axed soon enough.

Only to be replaced by another mediocre hack apparently.

So it goes.

** you can't get too mad at Miller, his options are limited, Knox and Smith are basically unplayable

*** that Zinger trade looking to go down as not merely one of the Knick worst-ever's, but cracking the league-as-a-whole lists, the stink isn't an odor, it's an o-dear!
Title: Knix Knox
Post by: carlos123 on February 27, 2020, 09:52:02 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on February 27, 2020, 08:52:01 PM
The other half of the duo who allowed Porzingis to leave should be axed soon enough.

Only to be replaced by another mediocre hack apparently.

So it goes.

** you can't get too mad at Miller, his options are limited, Knox and Smith are basically unplayable


I gave up on Knox a while ago.

Now the Chipstern is gonna be upset, sorry...
Title: KP who
Post by: Kam on February 28, 2020, 10:22:05 AM
Kris Porzingis: 18.7 pts  9.2 rebs  1.6 assts   42/35/78  in 45 games  on a KZillion dollar contract
Julius Randle:  19.2 pts  9.6 rebs  3.2 assts   46/27/71  in 57 games  on reasonable dollars

Stop pretending we miss KP.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on February 28, 2020, 10:47:06 AM
That's funny.
Title: Funny HAHA or....
Post by: Kam on February 28, 2020, 10:57:56 AM
Instead of paying KP an average annual salary of $32 million we paid Randle and Morris a combined salary of $33 million.  We've already converted Morris into another first.   Meanwhile KP missed 10 straight games with his ailing knee.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on February 28, 2020, 11:02:58 AM
And Randle is the best player on a terrible team, a role he's generally played his whole career.  Fantastic!!!
Title: Re: Funny HAHA or....
Post by: lesterluv on February 28, 2020, 11:17:35 AM
Quote from: Kam on February 28, 2020, 10:57:56 AM
Instead of paying KP an average annual salary of $32 million we paid Randle and Morris a combined salary of $33 million.  We've already converted Morris into another first.   Meanwhile KP missed 10 straight games with his ailing knee.

lol, there ain't a GM in the league who wouldn't rather give the $$ to KP

* well, xcept for the one whose about to get his ass tossed to the curb in NYC
** wtf does the Morris first have to do with anything? You can still do your Morris deal w/KP, might have had to hold off on 3 or 4 of our other PFs tho. You could sign Randle if you want. You can do whatever the hell you like..but you don't let situation develop where you ship out KP for a heap of stinky trash....course if we were still rocking KP, history would have been so different..I already explained how everything should have gone down to you
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 28, 2020, 11:49:11 AM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on February 28, 2020, 11:02:58 AM
And Randle is the best player on a terrible team, a role he's generally played his whole career.  Fantastic!!!

Never show a fool a job half done.
Title: I'm breaking a rule, never show a fool....this:
Post by: lesterluv on February 28, 2020, 01:24:56 PM
NBA PER February:
1. Nikola Jokic: 34.8
2. James Harden: 32.9
3. Luka Doncic: 30.3
4. Kristaps Porzingis: 30.2
5. Giannis Antetokounmpo: 29.2

The boy just hitting stride, even with the nose break,....
Title: Re: I'm breaking a rule, never show a fool....this:
Post by: Kam on February 28, 2020, 01:28:58 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on February 28, 2020, 01:24:56 PM
NBA PER February:
1. Nikola Jokic: 34.8
2. James Harden: 32.9
3. Luka Doncic: 30.3
4. Kristaps Porzingis: 30.2
5. Giannis Antetokounmpo: 29.2

The boy just hitting stride, even with the nose break,....

He has it in bursts. Look at his November December and January.  He's not a full-season player.  Cherry pick your stats some more why don't you?  Alonzo Trier's PER is higher than KPs this month but you left that out.
Title: Re: I'm breaking a rule, never show a fool....this:
Post by: lesterluv on February 28, 2020, 01:33:08 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 28, 2020, 01:28:58 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on February 28, 2020, 01:24:56 PM
NBA PER February:
1. Nikola Jokic: 34.8
2. James Harden: 32.9
3. Luka Doncic: 30.3
4. Kristaps Porzingis: 30.2
5. Giannis Antetokounmpo: 29.2

The boy just hitting stride, even with the nose break,....

He has it in bursts. Look at his November December and January.  He's not a full-season player.

Kam, if you didn't exist, we couldn't begin to invent you.

Look at his November. :)

I cherry picked and left out Trier's per. :) :)
Title: Re: I'm breaking a rule, never show a fool....this:
Post by: Kam on February 28, 2020, 01:48:10 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on February 28, 2020, 01:33:08 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 28, 2020, 01:28:58 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on February 28, 2020, 01:24:56 PM
NBA PER February:
1. Nikola Jokic: 34.8
2. James Harden: 32.9
3. Luka Doncic: 30.3
4. Kristaps Porzingis: 30.2
5. Giannis Antetokounmpo: 29.2

The boy just hitting stride, even with the nose break,....

He has it in bursts. Look at his November December and January.  He's not a full-season player.

Kam, if you didn't exist, we couldn't begin to invent you.

Look at his November. :)

I cherry picked and left out Trier's per. :) :)

You have a small brain if you think a small FEB sample size makes up for a shitty first three months of the year.  That's why i gave you Trier.  If you like small sample sizes we can talk about Trier's superior PER.
Title: Very special people I know
Post by: lesterluv on February 28, 2020, 02:54:51 PM
lol, lol, Which do you think is more relevant —  the first month after a year and a half away from the game, or this month? lol, lol, lol...

*** I still don't get where Trier comes in to this convo, but it's good that he's getting into something
*** KP played like 300 min in Feb, did Trier play 15? the Kamster, the hamster!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 29, 2020, 07:34:33 AM
Lester thinks KP will play all the important games the rest of this year.  that's cool.

We'll see.

But if he was a Knick, just missing the time he has already missed would knock his team for a loop and out of the playoff pic - if they had half a chance anyway.

That's sort of a compliment to his prowess, though critical.

Add:  KP wasnt signing here, so get that "we could have paid..." out of your system.
Title: 5pm start time
Post by: Kam on February 29, 2020, 12:34:23 PM
Early game tonight.   Might have to pause the DVR to catch my views of the setting sun.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 29, 2020, 11:00:39 PM
That was delicious.

Really good games by the kids. Horrible TOs sprinkled throughout.

Good runs by the NY vets, Taj and Moe.

Whatever Zach got, he gave up more getting toasted in the post.

This was nice. We likely get waxed the next three, Houston, Utah, OKC.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 29, 2020, 11:01:54 PM
James Harden is a dumb fuck.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 29, 2020, 11:36:53 PM
Escaped with a good win nevertheless
Title: Celtics
Post by: carlos123 on March 01, 2020, 12:01:59 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 29, 2020, 11:36:53 PM
Escaped with a good win nevertheless

No, the Cs lost because they didn’t play Enes Kanter, right Kamster?

What’s your take Bank?
Title: Re: Celtics
Post by: bankshot1 on March 01, 2020, 12:46:39 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on March 01, 2020, 12:01:59 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 29, 2020, 11:36:53 PM
Escaped with a good win nevertheless

No, the Cs lost because they didn’t play Enes Kanter, right Kamster?

What’s your take Bank?

Rockets played a great 2nd half, way more physical, kept the Celts off-balance particularly in the paint, and outworked the Celts.

And Westbrook went off with a monster game.

1 point loss OT loss not happy with it, but Rockets are good.

And the game was pretty entertaining.

IMO Kanter would have been lost on D. Too slow. Might have helped boarding in the 2nd half. I can see the DNP.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on March 01, 2020, 02:16:52 AM
Another Mills mistake. Finally gone after all these futile years. A totally incompetent yes man.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on March 01, 2020, 05:27:20 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 29, 2020, 11:01:54 PM
James Harden is a dumb fuck.

But Jimmer is the second coming.

Verily, thou art the king of comedy. 
Title: Question
Post by: chipstern on March 01, 2020, 05:29:07 PM
Where is OUR Shake Milton?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 01, 2020, 05:50:57 PM
Quote from: chipstern on March 01, 2020, 05:27:20 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 29, 2020, 11:01:54 PM
James Harden is a dumb fuck.

But Jimmer is the second coming.

Verily, thou art the king of comedy.

I guess you didnt see the play

Dumbest thing I have ever seen
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on March 01, 2020, 06:56:24 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 01, 2020, 05:50:57 PM
Quote from: chipstern on March 01, 2020, 05:27:20 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 29, 2020, 11:01:54 PM
James Harden is a dumb fuck.

But Jimmer is the second coming.

Verily, thou art the king of comedy.

I guess you didnt see the play

Dumbest thing I have ever seen

I remain unmoved by your sense of horror

Wish we had a dumb fuck capable of giving us 35-7-7 night in and night out.

Sure you're not just reacting to his sepia pigmentation? .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 01, 2020, 07:04:51 PM
Chip had his cable turned off

Sad.
Title: Re: Question
Post by: carlos123 on March 01, 2020, 08:17:02 PM
Quote from: chipstern on March 01, 2020, 05:29:07 PM
Where is OUR Shake Milton?

Chico knows. One Ball or another, now that we lost the Jimmer train.

Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 01, 2020, 07:04:51 PM
Chip had his cable turned off
Sad.

That meant to be a trumpfian kinda tweet?
Title: Monster game
Post by: carlos123 on March 01, 2020, 08:31:10 PM
Monster game by KP: 38 points, 13 boards, 4 assists and 5 blocks!
Timmy did ok too, with a game high +37.

Thanks Mills, sigh...
Title: Re: Monster game
Post by: elephant on March 01, 2020, 09:15:54 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on March 01, 2020, 08:31:10 PM
Monster game by KP: 38 points, 13 boards, 4 assists and 5 blocks!
Timmy did ok too, with a game high +37.

Thanks Mills, sigh...

Carlos, I'm afraid you're being ignorant here.

Just days ago Kam offered mathematical proof that we were wise to jettison the Latvian. Dodged a bullet really.

So your point here is nothing less than a denial of science.
Title: Hamster Science
Post by: lesterluv on March 01, 2020, 09:29:04 PM
Trier would definitely have had a more statistically significant result.

If coach had allowed him to play his 6 minutes.

BTW: How many other players in NBA history have recorded 35+ points, 5+ threes, 5 or more blocks besides KP? (forget the boards and dimes, don't need 'em, can ya say unicorn?)


NONE

*** if ya don't want to forget about the dimes, well...ya got stuff like https://twitter.com/IcyPorzingis/status/1234243938531381250 (https://twitter.com/IcyPorzingis/status/1234243938531381250) or this https://twitter.com/NickVanExit/status/1234236414088359945
 (https://twitter.com/NickVanExit/status/1234236414088359945)

**** Trier would definitely become the second player in NBA history to do that if coach would just put him in the damn game! Coach, coach, what the f' is wrong with you. Why you holding my boy back???
Title: Re: Monster game
Post by: carlos123 on March 01, 2020, 10:33:53 PM
Quote from: elephant on March 01, 2020, 09:15:54 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on March 01, 2020, 08:31:10 PM
Monster game by KP: 38 points, 13 boards, 4 assists and 5 blocks!
Timmy did ok too, with a game high +37.

Thanks Mills, sigh...

Carlos, I'm afraid you're being ignorant here.

Just days ago Kam offered mathematical proof that we were wise to jettison the Latvian. Dodged a bullet really.

So your point here is nothing less than a denial of science.

Sorry, I forgot. The Kamster’s science is just too profound for me.

Les, thanks for reminding me about Trier, one of the best 5 playas in the NBA. You my doggie 🐶
Title: Oh yes, there's the other side of the court, too...
Post by: lesterluv on March 01, 2020, 10:46:49 PM
...where Trier is really known to excel....

“Defensively, he was phenomenal. Changing shots, blocking shots, rebounding the ball, deflecting, saving balls. It was a defensive clinic," said @dallasmavs coach Rick Carlisle of Kristaps Porzingis.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 01, 2020, 10:52:57 PM
Ooh. KP had a nice game against the shattered rump of the Wolves. Cuban is a much better bet to keep an eye on him and his brothers than Dolan and Dallas has a different set of community standards than NYC. Bless and move on. Enjoy him while he’s ambulatory.

From a pocket pass to a spinning reverse Mitch made plays from the post against the Bulls. I’m not going to attribute that to the coaching of David Fizdale. Also Knox finally manned up against a team. Now they need to repeat it. Then they need to make it consistent.



Title: Re: Monster game
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 01, 2020, 11:09:05 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on March 01, 2020, 08:31:10 PM
Monster game by KP: 38 points, 13 boards, 4 assists and 5 blocks!
Timmy did ok too, with a game high +37.

Thanks Mills, sigh...

One of us didnt love the inclusion of Hardaway in that deal.
Title: Re: Monster game
Post by: carlos123 on March 02, 2020, 01:50:34 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 01, 2020, 11:09:05 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on March 01, 2020, 08:31:10 PM
Monster game by KP: 38 points, 13 boards, 4 assists and 5 blocks!
Timmy did ok too, with a game high +37.

Thanks Mills, sigh...

One of us didnt love the inclusion of Hardaway in that deal.

Timmy’s was too inconsistent in NY.

Also, was let go for nothing and got back for way too much.
Title: Hey Bank
Post by: carlos123 on March 02, 2020, 09:33:25 PM
Not gloating, but we beat the f'in Rockets!!!

Well ... actually GLOATING. Being the poor Knicks you gotta understand 😊

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 02, 2020, 09:34:22 PM
We won a playoff game!!!

(or as close as we'll get to one)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 02, 2020, 09:45:03 PM
Wow. That new President sure works fast.

It either shows there’s a decent foundation already in place to go along with our mountain of future assets, or that still in the NBA on a weird enough night any team can beat any team.

Youth was damn well served.

I’m getting to like Moe Harkless.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 02, 2020, 09:46:19 PM
And KP is a DNP - load management
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 02, 2020, 11:12:07 PM
What a fun game that was!


*** and I c the turd emerges to belch more methane about his post-Kanter obsession. Probably didn't enjoy the game cause Trier didn't check in to boost his league-leading PER.

Title: Curb your enthusiasm
Post by: carlos123 on March 02, 2020, 11:22:52 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on March 02, 2020, 11:12:07 PM
What a fun game that was!


*** and I c the turd emerges to belch more methane about his post-Kanter obsession. Probably didn't enjoy the game cause Trier didn't check in to boost his league-leading PER.

Les, baaaaaad doggie! 🐶

BTW, Rose looks just like Harvey Weinstein.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 02, 2020, 11:25:34 PM
This is still a recovery year for KZ.  Just as it was for Haywire and will be for Durant.
Trading KZ for crapola will go down as a notorious blunder (unless his injuries mount).

How the hell did we beat the Rockettes?
I guess having a solid frontcourt finally paid off against D'ant's midges.
Title: Re: Hey Bank
Post by: bankshot1 on March 02, 2020, 11:28:12 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on March 02, 2020, 09:33:25 PM
Not gloating, but we beat the f'in Rockets!!!

Well ... actually GLOATING. Being the poor Knicks you gotta understand 😊

Carlos enjoy your gloat.


You watch HBO's Curb your enhusiasm?

thought of you guys after watching last night's episode
Title: Moe
Post by: chipstern on March 03, 2020, 01:25:48 AM



Quote from: facilitatorn on March 02, 2020, 09:45:03 PM
Wow. That new President sure works fast.

It either shows there’s a decent foundation already in place to go along with our mountain of future assets, or that still in the NBA on a weird enough night any team can beat any team.

Youth was damn well served.

I’m getting to like Moe Harkless.

From Mo to Moe.

Growing on me as well.

Bo always touted him as a solid 3&D guy.

So far so good, I must say, as someone who was once heard to exclaim fuck Moe...

Went on a three point binge against Philly. 

Sold defender, good passer, seemingly does a lot of glue guy things....nice length at 6'9" or thereabouts.

Seems to have a nice influence on ball movement. 

Ball doesn't stick.  Plays within himself.  WANTS TO BE A KNICK. 

PS: Loved what Frank brought to the scrum, hitting some shots, staying aggressive on both ends and manning up against the dynamic Russell Westbrook (who looks just.like Bodie from THE WIRE).  Was proud of Frank and happy for the kid. 

PPS: RJ Barrett has certainly got sone skills and sone cajones.  After a hit start cooling off and some bad turnovers, still had the will and confidence to take and make the big shot when the entire Garden was bracing for another heartbreaker.  Proud of the kid.  He will continue to mature.  Only 19. 

PPPS: Entertaining game.  We took it to them, and fought off one run after another.  Good team effort...and a tip of the hat to Wayne Ellington for picking a most opportune time to go unconscious.   

Title: Re: Hey Bank
Post by: carlos123 on March 03, 2020, 01:53:46 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on March 02, 2020, 11:28:12 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on March 02, 2020, 09:33:25 PM
Not gloating, but we beat the f'in Rockets!!!

Well ... actually GLOATING. Being the poor Knicks you gotta understand 😊

Carlos enjoy your gloat.


You watch HBO's Curb your enhusiasm?

thought of you guys after watching last night's episode

Thanks Bank, never thought I’d enjoy bantering with a C’s fan. Alas there’s no rivalry, so easy to be friendly now, and you seem to be a nice guy despite your unfortunate allegiance.

I don’t watch HBO, but the show’s title seems made for my doggie. He was a little too nasty with the Kamster: the poor thing is too traumatized with Kanter, KP, K Trier, ... you name it.
Title: Re: Hey Bank
Post by: lesterluv on March 03, 2020, 08:43:31 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on March 03, 2020, 01:53:46 AM

I don’t watch HBO, but the show’s title seems made for my doggie. He was a little too nasty with the Kamster: the poor thing is too traumatized with Kanter, KP, K Trier, ... you name it.

I invented him; I can do what I want with him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 03, 2020, 08:44:34 AM
On Barrett -

https://uproxx.com/dimemag/rj-barrett-better-shooting-form-right-hand-more-comfortable-left-knicks/


Of course, there is nothing wrong with being able to use your off hand — that’s a really good skill to have! — but because Barrett is having such a tough year shooting the ball with what he admits is his weaker hand, this is going to get magnified. It’s something that we’ve seen pop up in the discourse around Sixers star Ben Simmons, who is also right-hand dominant but shoots with his left hand. The difference, of course, is that Simmons is an All-Star despite his lack of a jumper, while Barrett has a long way to go before he gets to that point.




Puzzling
Title: It's only fair
Post by: Kam on March 03, 2020, 09:20:19 AM
You post stats on KP's one decent game but then stay silent (HYPOCRITES) when the next game he posts ZEROES across the board.  Knix didn't wanna pay max dollars max years for a stretch C who can't play a full season anymore.

Meanwhile we have our own pretty good young C but you guys never tout him.  You're not real Knicks fans. 
Title: Hamster Snout Pokes Through Surface Emits Swamp Gas Bubble
Post by: lesterluv on March 03, 2020, 09:51:51 AM
we post stats on KP's historic game (like no nba player ever done before game)

but coulda posted any of the previous...dude been busting it out, night after night

back into your hole, you...


••• the day Kam becomes arbitrer of "who is a Knick fan" is the day the sun rises in the West, the moon falls from the sky, and Pat Cummings steps out from his grave to play power forward next to Mitch without changing out of his coffin clothes
Title: Re: Hey Bank
Post by: bankshot1 on March 03, 2020, 10:07:46 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on March 03, 2020, 01:53:46 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on March 02, 2020, 11:28:12 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on March 02, 2020, 09:33:25 PM
Not gloating, but we beat the f'in Rockets!!!

Well ... actually GLOATING. Being the poor Knicks you gotta understand 😊

Carlos enjoy your gloat.


You watch HBO's Curb your enhusiasm?

thought of you guys after watching last night's episode

Thanks Bank, never thought I’d enjoy bantering with a C’s fan. Alas there’s no rivalry, so easy to be friendly now, and you seem to be a nice guy despite your unfortunate allegiance.

I don’t watch HBO, but the show’s title seems made for my doggie. He was a little too nasty with the Kamster: the poor thing is too traumatized with Kanter, KP, K Trier, ... you name it.


Carlos I try not to take it too seriously and find the laugh in it.

https://nypost.com/2020/03/02/larry-david-gets-his-revenge-on-the-f-king-jets-on-curb-your-enthusiasm/ (https://nypost.com/2020/03/02/larry-david-gets-his-revenge-on-the-f-king-jets-on-curb-your-enthusiasm/)


On Sunday night’s episode of “Curb Your Enthusiasm,” Larry David took aim at the Jets with several jokes about his beloved franchise. The episode centers around David’s friend Carl, who kills himself because of the team’s struggles.

“I can’t take any more disappointment,” the suicide note read, a couple of scenes after Carl is ranting about a fictitious season-ending Le’Veon Bell injury.

“The Jets killed Carl — and a little bit of the Knicks,” David said.

The tack on about the Knicks cracked me up.


Carl would have liked last night's game.

RIP Carl Funkhouser


GO CELTS
Title: Re: It's only fair
Post by: chipstern on March 03, 2020, 10:42:10 AM
Quote from: Kam on March 03, 2020, 09:20:19 AM
You post stats on KP's one decent game but then stay silent (HYPOCRITES) when the next game he posts ZEROES across the board.  Knix didn't wanna pay max dollars max years for a stretch C who can't play a full season anymore.

Meanwhile we have our own pretty good young C but you guys never tout him.  You're not real Knicks fans.

Losing it.

Pity
Title: Fuck you an the unicorn up your ass
Post by: Kam on March 03, 2020, 10:54:41 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on March 01, 2020, 09:29:04 PM

BTW: How many other players in NBA history have recorded 35+ points, 5+ threes, 5 or more blocks besides KP? (forget the boards and dimes, don't need 'em, can ya say unicorn?)


RJ Barrett becomes the second-youngest player (19 years, 262 days) in NBA history to tally at least 25 points, 5 boards, 5 assists and 3 made treys in a single game.

#Knicksfan
Title: Re: Hamster Snout Pokes Through Surface Emits Swamp Gas Bubble
Post by: Kam on March 03, 2020, 10:56:09 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on March 03, 2020, 09:51:51 AM
we post stats on KP's historic game (like no nba player ever done before game)


Post the Knicks Dummy!
Title: Re: It's only fair
Post by: Kam on March 03, 2020, 10:58:15 AM
Quote from: chipstern on March 03, 2020, 10:42:10 AM
Quote from: Kam on March 03, 2020, 09:20:19 AM
You post stats on KP's one decent game but then stay silent (HYPOCRITES) when the next game he posts ZEROES across the board.  Knix didn't wanna pay max dollars max years for a stretch C who can't play a full season anymore.

Meanwhile we have our own pretty good young C but you guys never tout him.  You're not real Knicks fans.

Losing it.

Pity


Nobody asked you. You don't post about the knicks either.  Go join the Mavs circle-jerk.
Title: NO MERCY 🐶
Post by: carlos123 on March 03, 2020, 11:32:03 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on March 03, 2020, 08:43:31 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on March 03, 2020, 01:53:46 AM

I don’t watch HBO, but the show’s title seems made for my doggie. He was a little too nasty with the Kamster: the poor thing is too traumatized with Kanter, KP, K Trier, ... you name it.

I invented him; I can do what I want with him.

My doggie has NO MERCY 👹

PS. I’m very happy we have Mitch and Barrett.

Bank, of course fandom is not to be taken seriously, was just kidding. But your C’s allegiance still stinks 😉
Title: Re: It's only fair
Post by: chipstern on March 03, 2020, 11:40:54 AM
Quote from: Kam on March 03, 2020, 10:58:15 AM
Quote from: chipstern on March 03, 2020, 10:42:10 AM
Quote from: Kam on March 03, 2020, 09:20:19 AM
You post stats on KP's one decent game but then stay silent (HYPOCRITES) when the next game he posts ZEROES across the board.  Knix didn't wanna pay max dollars max years for a stretch C who can't play a full season anymore.

Meanwhile we have our own pretty good young C but you guys never tout him.  You're not real Knicks fans.

Losing it.

Pity


Nobody asked you. You don't post about the knicks either.  Go join the Mavs circle-jerk.

Like I suggested.

LOSING IT.

A terminal.nose bleed lecturing his elders, many of whom have been Knicks enthusiasts through thin and thinner, going back to the old Garden on 8th Avenue, when the The Prophet Kamster was just a patch of semen on the community bed post.

Angry little motherfucker, sniffing his own farts and proclaiming them to be Lanvin #5.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 03, 2020, 12:03:12 PM
Jesus Kam, don't lose your fucking sense of humor about this shit.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 03, 2020, 12:05:21 PM
By the way, new Knicks president and a big win over Houston!

What could go wrong?

Oh, here's an article about Dolan pissing off Spike Lee who says he's staying away from Knicks home games for the rest of the year.
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/28829234/spike-lee-done-watching-knicks-msg-season (https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28828980/red-sox-pitcher-chris-sale-getting-mri-sore-elbow)

Gotta love this organization! They're creative!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 03, 2020, 01:47:04 PM
This is so hilarious. The new "brand manager" really is to image what Fiz was to coaching. Spectacular. LOLKnicks all the way...
Title: Re: It's only fair
Post by: Kam on March 03, 2020, 01:49:57 PM
Quote from: chipstern on March 03, 2020, 11:40:54 AM

lecturing his elders


(◔_◔)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 03, 2020, 01:50:16 PM
Fuck spike Lee.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 03, 2020, 02:04:57 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 03, 2020, 01:50:16 PM
Fuck spike Lee.

Your tastes grow more surprising by the day. Suit yourself, but probably get consent first.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 03, 2020, 02:08:18 PM
if kiid wants to get up in it, let him ;D

Great win, first game of new era/team prez and the story is Knicks alienating long time supporter and NYC icon. The guy hired to improve Dolan/Knicks image among players & fans achieves precisely opposite of what he was hired to do.

Only at Madison Square Garden.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 03, 2020, 02:18:54 PM
Quote from: elephant on March 03, 2020, 12:03:12 PM
Jesus Kam, don't lose your fucking sense of humor about this shit.

It's kindergarten humor by Carlos (who posts Knicks content .1% of the time and is just here to stir things up) and Lester (a forum troll going back as far as i can remember).   

They're stuck on KP (who wanted out) and can't see the HISTORIC player in front of their eyes right now,  RJ Barrett just played closer and out did Harden and Westbrook with help from Frankie's defense at the end.  But they're here to gloat about KP who can't even play back to back.   

Lester used to be the lunatic fringe.  But the lunatic fringe is all that's left here. 
Title: c&c
Post by: carlos123 on March 03, 2020, 02:23:56 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 03, 2020, 02:04:57 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 03, 2020, 01:50:16 PM
Fuck spike Lee.

Your tastes grow more surprising by the day. Suit yourself, but probably get consent first.

Fac, you’re killing it 🤣

BTW, consent and a condom.
Title: The Genius of Jimmy The Jizz
Post by: chipstern on March 03, 2020, 02:24:27 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on March 03, 2020, 02:08:18 PM
if kiid wants to get up in it, let him ;D

Great win, first game of new era/team prez and the story is Knicks alienating long time supporter and NYC icon. The guy hired to improve Dolan/Knicks image among players & fans achieves precisely opposite of what he was hired to do.

Only at Madison Square Garden.

That brother was hired to enhance the brand.

What if, just....what if.

KP wouldn't re-up with the Knicks because of Spike Lee?

If we hired Phil Jackson because of Spike Lee.

If top tier free agents are hesitant to come here because of Spike Lee.

What if The Kamster Fire is blazing out of control because of Spike Lee.

What is Kiid isn't actually a contrarian knuckle dragging Trumpohonic purveyor of thinly veiled racist douchebaggery.

SPIKE LEE.

Ah....so.....

Cleary, there is a method to Jimmy The Jizz's method.

Let's start a petition wherein Dolan buys the Mets, bans Spike from CitiField, and has his band play three just like the Beatles.   
Title: Proud of you
Post by: carlos123 on March 03, 2020, 02:31:48 PM
Quote from: Kam on March 03, 2020, 02:18:54 PM
Quote from: elephant on March 03, 2020, 12:03:12 PM
Jesus Kam, don't lose your fucking sense of humor about this shit.

It's kindergarten humor by Carlos (who posts Knicks content .1% of the time and is just here to stir things up) and Lester (a forum troll going back as far as i can remember).   

They're stuck on KP (who wanted out) and can't see the HISTORIC player in front of their eyes right now,  RJ Barrett just played closer and out did Harden and Westbrook with help from Frankie's defense at the end.  But they're here to gloat about KP who can't even play back to back.   

Lester used to be the lunatic fringe.  But the lunatic fringe is all that's left here.

Me and Enes are proud of you.

I’m not stuck on KP, but he had a monster game and I pointed that out.

I said before I’m very happy we have Mitch and Barrett. And coach Miller.

And very unhappy with our new image clown. Not hopeful about president Rose.

Grow up!

PS. Chip, leave the Mets alone. Let’s have Doughlan sell the Knicks and buy the Nyets.
Title: Re: NO MERCY 🐶
Post by: bankshot1 on March 03, 2020, 03:30:27 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on March 03, 2020, 11:32:03 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on March 03, 2020, 08:43:31 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on March 03, 2020, 01:53:46 AM

I don’t watch HBO, but the show’s title seems made for my doggie. He was a little too nasty with the Kamster: the poor thing is too traumatized with Kanter, KP, K Trier, ... you name it.

I invented him; I can do what I want with him.

My doggie has NO MERCY 👹

PS. I’m very happy we have Mitch and Barrett.

Bank, of course fandom is not to be taken seriously, was just kidding. But your C’s allegiance still stinks 😉

A (Leon) Rose smells just as sweet.

And as The Beach Boys, IIRC a band out of the Bronx, once sang, "gotta be true to your school".

Speaking of fans who take this shit way too seriously, what's up with Spike? Is he pushing Do the Right Thing 2? Was he mad at single white Rose Dolan gave Knick fans yesterday?  My two scents it looked and smelled like a manufactured publicity stunt.

I'm glad Carl Funkhouser (RIP) was spared the additional pain.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 03, 2020, 04:04:49 PM
Hey, Shelton -


BrooklyN   --------------------->
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 03, 2020, 04:11:07 PM
MoHawk is a solid pro.  POR really misses his all-around solid, selfless game.  Glue guy defines him more than 3&D.  Does the little things, doesn't seem to have the big ego, just works hard.  I haven't had a chance to see him on the Knickers yet.  But glad to hear his solidity is appealing to some. 

KZ was our best chance of reviving our crummy team, and we let him slip away apparently because we have a poorly run team full of conflicts and instability.  How anyone can just shrug that off is a mystery to Bo.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 03, 2020, 04:30:30 PM
wow - no blame for the Porzingis ("I want to bring a title to New York") camp?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 03, 2020, 04:31:28 PM
Chip says Fuck Moe Harkless - but let's ride Spike.
Title: some funny bastards
Post by: lesterluv on March 03, 2020, 04:39:57 PM
Why would there be blame for Porzingis?

He's serious about basketball.
He's serious about winning.
He's serious about his career.
He wanted to play for a quality organization.

You can blame him for...what? Not wanting to stick in a Steve Mills stew?

Once Knicks chose Fiz over Budenholzer it was over.

(Just roll that one around your brain. Say it out loud twice. the Knicks chose Fiz over Budenholzer. the Knicks chose Fiz over Budenholzer.kinda like choosing Mario Hezonja over Giannis.)


*** the questions people ask around here kill me sometimes
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 03, 2020, 04:41:36 PM
You can blame him for...what? Not wanting to stick in a Steve Mills stew?


yes

after saying he was all in for NY
Title: I like smart ones, you got a stupid player jones, that's cool
Post by: lesterluv on March 03, 2020, 04:45:14 PM
lol, nobody can be all in to waste their career in fuckhead land..

you just silly

what kind of idiot would want to do that? nobody who gives a fuck about the game for sure...

would clearly indicate that he had no interest in serious basketball


I want to continue playing for an organization that would keep Steve Mills on for two decades and would choose Fizdale over Budenholzer.***

He has an IQ higher than 11..something wrong with that?

I like players with IQ's higher than 11.

*** and would hire Steve Stoute as Brand Consultant...this one is just gonna get better and better for sure, LOLKnicks, we hire the most special motherfuckers available
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on March 03, 2020, 04:53:30 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 03, 2020, 04:11:07 PM
MoHawk is a solid pro.  POR really misses his all-around solid, selfless game.  Glue guy defines him more than 3&D.  Does the little things, doesn't seem to have the big ego, just works hard.  I haven't had a chance to see him on the Knickers yet.  But glad to hear his solidity is appealing to some. 

KZ was our best chance of reviving our crummy team, and we let him slip away apparently because we have a poorly run team full of conflicts and instability.  How anyone can just shrug that off is a mystery to Bo.

KP

KAM

Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. 

Moe?

I like the way Miller acclimated Moe, and with each successive game his comfort level has grown.

I was obviously a big MM enthusiast.  And he obviously has a more refined offensive game. 

But again, the ball moves better with less ball sticking, better spacing; some particularly nice chemistry with Julius, who on one sequence decided to forego backing into a triple team, with a nice pass to Moe slipping a screen for a layup. 

His size/length double clutch his defensive focus. 

Not a good free throw shooter, so he fits right in. 

But he can create space and separation off the dribble and is a streaky shooter.  You didn't see him against Pbilly?  Fuck me!  He went totally unconscious and nailed like five treys in a row, often with a defender draped over him. 

Mostly I have liked all the things he seems to do that won't show up on the stat sheet.   

Now that he has gotten his sea legs, he seems to have earned his coach and teammates trust.  He also seems to have had a positive influence on Mitchell, RJ, Frank and Knox.  Perhaps I'm projecting there, but his quiet intensity seems to have impacted our team game.  Hell, Portis' defense seems better.  Randle's as well. 

Dare we hope he can bring some sense of proportion to Randle's tendency to precipitate hero ball turnovers.  Be more like Taj?

Anyway, a good team effort and a measure of Harkless' short term contributions. 

PS: RJ is a man.  Better defender than you credit him with being.  And while his aggression leads both to stretches of both brilliance and consternation, it is worth noting that RJ dies not give a damn about the last possession, only the next possession.  He will only get better as his maturity and refinement catch up with his confidence.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on March 03, 2020, 04:54:51 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 03, 2020, 04:31:28 PM
Chip says Fuck Moe Harkless - but let's ride Spike.

Chip is getting religion.

Meanwhile...

FUCK KIID.

Better?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 03, 2020, 05:45:57 PM
lol, nobody can be all in to waste their career in fuckhead land..


so your advice to anyone we draft is to demand an immediate trade?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 03, 2020, 06:04:31 PM
If I were a career counselor, yes, if I were being honest, based on the last two decades of Dolan's tenure.

Fortunately, I'm not. Am a Knick fan, rather, despite Kam's insistence.

And Fizdale is no longer coaching and Mills isn't presidenting so the situation is somewhat different on this, the second day of Leon Rose's tenure, as opposed to that afternoon during Porzingis' third year as a Knick.

**** yo, but that silly Spike Lee ish just cries out same, same, same, same, same

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 04, 2020, 02:54:13 AM
We don't know all of what went down.  But reportedly one source of friction was that KZ's brother wanted a formal position with Los Knix.  At the first mention of that, I had advocated making him one of our Euro-scouts, to appease him, get him away from KZ, keep KZ happy, and maybe he could help dig up another Baltic player for us. There was also Phil firing KZ's main strength&development coach.  Hiring novice Fizdale, a big BS-er, probably wasn't reassuring.

There's a lot the Knix did wrong, including trying to implement Phil's Triangle, which players generally don't like and have a hard time learning.  Which in a weird way made it more Phil's team than KZ's.  Phil taking offers on KZ was likely the tipping point.

The reality of the NBA is that one or two top tier players can change a franchise's fortunes dramatically.  KZ has the size and skill set to transform a team into long term winning.  There aren't too many high-level 2-way players. Not many 20+ point scorers who play good defense.  [of the 45 players scoring more than 18 points, I count 11, including KZ, as + defenders.  So KZ likely is or will be one of the Top 10 two-way players in the game.  Caveat: I didn't bother to scan further down the scoring list or rank the 2-way guys]

So you have to do what is necessary to make a young developing stud like KZ happy and retain him.  The rules are set up so teams can keep their rooks for a long time.  Extra year and bigger raises = extra guaranteed money. 

And if you want/have to move your franchise cornerstone, you have to wait til you can get a high level quality return.  Instead DAL just offered a slightly upgraded version of the TyC trade, and we rushed into it (DeAndre3000/Dalembert; Wes Mathews/Ellington; Jr. Smith/Larkin&Jose; plus two 1st round picks/two 2nd round picks).  Right now all we got was the enigmatic Smith Jr, having his worst pro season, with his head elsewhere.  And DAL sure isn't concerned about giving up their '21 & '23 pick for KZ.  Picks that'll likely fall around the 18th pick or worse.

So who cares what blame lies on the Zinger camp, it was a calamity to lose KZ for junkola.  Ya gotta keep your franchise players content.  Ya gotta keep your franchise players.  We needed KZ much more than he needed us.  We're screwed, he's doing well.  Etc.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 04, 2020, 03:11:49 AM
Btw, why didn't we hold on to Wes Mathews to see if he could help?
He's starting on the league's best team this season, hitting 37% on his 3's, and would be our best wing player.  Signed an ultra-cheap 2/$5.2M contract with MIL.  Yup, MIL picked up a starter for $2.5M this year.

Anyway, glad we didn't buyout/waive MoHawk.  Useful player, wants to be a Knick, probably won't get big FA offers, hopefully we can keep him for around $6 -$8M per.

RegMiller suggests Spike should become a Pacers fan ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 04, 2020, 06:02:58 AM
Didn't know MoHark had a great shooting game v. PHI.
But aside from that explosion, he's just 2-12 on 3's for NYK.
I just think he's a guy others like playing with and the type that steadies a team.

I saw a good chunk of the HOU game on replay (mainly the 1Q & 4Q) and Hark just made some smart plays.  Ran an improvised give-and-go with Randle, when the Rockettes ignored Hark after he fed Randle in the post.  Even little things like when HOU had a fast break after a poor NYK turnover, Hark knew how to take the foul, while not letting HOU get a shot up and not getting a flagrant.  It's rather basic, but the kind of things lots of players can't manage these days.

I see Hark listed at 6'7", but he seems more around 6'8" / 6'9".
Maybe someone can get a better sense of his height when he stands next to say Randle or RJB.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 04, 2020, 08:22:54 AM
Btw, why didn't we hold on to Wes Mathews to see if he could help?


11.3 PER, .396 shooting over 283 games


and we were looking at Trier, Knox, Dotson and Jenkins, plus some Frank at the 2
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 04, 2020, 08:27:23 AM
But if you want a Matthews to start for us at the 2 next year, I can find you one.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 04, 2020, 11:11:09 PM
Knox is just useless

Leon Rose has to see this.

15-48
6-20
6-9

last ten games

8 assists
11 turnovers
ZERO steals
Title: Kam may very possibly be the absolute dumbest mf'er who has ever lived.
Post by: lesterluv on March 05, 2020, 12:46:06 AM
Porzingis is the first player to go for 34+ points, 12+ reb, 5+ blocks, and 4+ ast since... himself, in the last game he played. Anthony Davis is the only other player who's done that this season.

Kristaps Porzingis has recorded 30+ PTS and 5+ BLK in back-to-back games played. The last player with 30PTS/5BLK in back-to-back games was Shaquille O’Neal in 2000

Jk, Jk, Kam is a f'ing genius compared to the real stupidest people who ever lived —— those who produced KP on the Mavs for two beans and a bag of shit. One of those motherfuckers is still employed at MSG. How is that possible?

Did Trier's per go up or down tonight? I forgot to check before I nodded out of the Knick game...

Jeezus Knox really was at full suckage, every time I try to dig in and appreciate some tiny glimpse of his "getting it," like marginally better defensive positioning or something, he goes and turns the ball over three times in a row...it's hard, it's hard I tell you, and I really do try

Lol, lol, this one is rapidly developing top 5 NBA all time worst trades potential, barring the career-ending injury that Kam so desperately roots for each night after he puts down the bong and crawls into bed

It's really hard to pick a highlight, there's so many, offense and defense side, but let's go with this overtime crunchtime pick n slam:
https://twitter.com/Hustle_NBA/status/1235430863476645888 (https://twitter.com/Hustle_NBA/status/1235430863476645888)

He blocks the shit out of Zion here.
https://twitter.com/IsaacLHarris/status/1235413053530914816 (https://twitter.com/IsaacLHarris/status/1235413053530914816)
Zion, btw, had just 16 at end of reg, lowest in the last dozen games. No not coincidence that somebody 7'3" was guarding his favorite place.

Some country fucking imbecile in the woodshed type morons liked that trade.



What would I tell every player we draft? I would tell every player I hope you're like Kristaps Porzingis. I hope you care about winning, and your career, and don't want to waste a minute of it in a shit-show run by idiots. I hope you're not some soft stupid take-the-money-and-be-happy lardass. Cause I want 12 who feel like Porzingis did.

OT: Donovan on Frankie: https://twitter.com/sny_knicks/status/1235407068942741504 (https://twitter.com/sny_knicks/status/1235407068942741504)

OT: How is this man allowed to wear Bernard's number?
https://streamable.com/y3ip2 (https://streamable.com/y3ip2)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 05, 2020, 08:45:32 AM
http://www.nbadraftroom.com/p/wendall-moore-jr.html

Projected to go right around where we select in 20221 draft with the Dallas pick

We will get better using the 2 picks

How good would we have been with KP?  Or is it just about getting to watch him?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 05, 2020, 09:06:43 AM
Lester - I watched Dallas-NO last night

Maxi Kleber was on Zion the entire night.

He is too quick for KP
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 05, 2020, 09:42:44 AM
By no means meant to imply that KP was guarding the young lion, rather, was pointing out the salutorious effects of having such a rim protector. (as seen in vid)

No not coincidence that somebody 7'3" was guarding his favorite place.

Apologies for the confusion!

Here's the two of them on Zion, sigh...  https://twitter.com/dallasmavs/status/1235404978585395200 (https://twitter.com/dallasmavs/status/1235404978585395200)


One of the motherfuckers responsible is still employed at MSG. How is that possible?

just really getting back from year ++ off, age 24, finally in a lil bitty groove, and every night he's doing what nobody else has done in 20 years, or ever, that's what unicorn means, ya f'n cheese-face soofidoofus..
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 06, 2020, 09:37:39 AM

Yeah, Knox was terrible. 
Elf was really good.
Franc was fine, but almost always gives up the ball 25' out for no advantage.  At least he's cut down on those telegraphed turnover passes.  Once he did an unexpected blow-by.
Portis kept us in the game 2nd Q, but then went quiet.
Randle and Portis make a hash of D when played together.
Randle seems to wear down some 4Q's, so either need to spread his minutes better or find a 4Q scorer (or both).

UTA has a lot of nice action where they run PnR's and cuts and get things going rimward and usually Royce slides to the top of the arc for kick outs.  That was open a ton, and a nice safety outlet for the Jazz.  Well-coached team.  But Conley still hasn't meshed that well.  And their bench is limited.  A good team, but not a contender.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 06, 2020, 09:38:16 AM
The Max Factor did a terrific job on Zion.
KZ came over to disrupt and block Zion as well.
First time I saw Zion, and height bothered him.
Since he's not taking any shots beyond 6 feet.

I said before the season it would take until at least Jan and maybe the all-star break before you could really evaluate KZ.  Also, the Powell injury got them using KZ in a better way.  KZ has really been good on D.  Mostly at the rim, but the corner 3 Melli hit (his only bucket) to get it to OT, saw KZ right in his face with his arms up.   Wasn't it just a Player of the Week ago that Kam was laughing because KZ sat on a B2B?

Doncic is a complete madman.  1st half he threw the ball away and took terrible shots.  but he's persistent as all get out, and just wears the D down.  But at the end of the game, Luka took over bombing in a long 3, hitting KZ on a sweet little pocket pass for a roll dunk, and the 3rd masterpiece was drawing a huge crowd in the paint and kicking out for an open Hardaway corner 3.  The guy is special.  If he got his conditioning better and cut down on the slop ... oh my.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 06, 2020, 10:02:38 AM
I guess I need to clean out cookies, because on my usual browser I'm banned for life here ...

Some pre-season predictions Bo made:

KZ would take til 2020 and then some to get right and dominate.  And the trade would look awfuler.  Check.

MIL would miss The Frog a good deal.  Er, they've killed without him.  Though he could help a lot in the playoffs, he's forgotten in the reg season.  Wrong.

Josh Rich would be a perfect fit for PHI.  I thought his shooting and D would really fill a gap for them.  But he doesn't have the playmaking chops of a Jimmy Butler.  And that's what their halfcourt O needs.  And they still need a finisher.  And Josh Rich hasn't really got into a good groove.  Wrong.

Knix dodged a bullet striking out on Kyrie and KD.  A little early to declare, but KI has been dinged up, inconsistent and now out the year.  KD will take time to regain form a la KZ.
I'll take it.

POR would miss Mo Hark and Aminu and play crap D.  Check.
Though they have had lots of injuries.

Those are the ones I recall and felt strongly about.  I was wrong on MIL and PHI.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 06, 2020, 07:03:09 PM
Program note


HEAT-PELS
BUCKS-LAKERS

ESPN  8 pm

- oh - and the Knicks play
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jerrya on March 06, 2020, 08:01:10 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 04, 2020, 11:11:09 PM
Knox is just useless

Leon Rose has to see this.

15-48
6-20
6-9

last ten games

8 assists
11 turnovers
ZERO steals

Agree...100%
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jerrya on March 06, 2020, 08:23:22 PM
MITCHELL ROBINSON is my favorite Knick!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 06, 2020, 08:25:34 PM
Cripes, a bobbled rebound lands in Knox's hands, he goes up for an uncontested dunk and ... misses.

Knix 0-8 on 3's so far.
I missed the 1Q ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 06, 2020, 09:46:08 PM
Nix getting drubbed.

Give OKC credit.  Adams was killing NYK with size, with Clyde asking where Mitch was.  Mitch gets back in and OKC switches him on to speedy guards and goes to work.
Just controlling the game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 06, 2020, 10:51:31 PM
Knox was somehow a +7 on his 1 for 7.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 07, 2020, 01:06:17 AM
The Kid played hard. That is what development looks like some nights.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 07, 2020, 04:51:09 AM
After tonight, I’m warming up enough to contemplating what a CP3 deal might look like, understanding the sheer stupidity of it re: age, dollars, etc.

Send the The Thunder Randle, Bobby, and Smith Jr. and maybe sweeten it with swap options down the road on years when both teams have multiple picks.

They only be committed to our players for one year with an option on Randle for one more and a QO for Smith if they want it. They can have the whole 2nd year off their books.

We get Paul and get out of the free agent market for two years both of which have us adding 2 first rounders.

I’d look for Toppin as PG is secure at least for the short term, though BPA definitely applies to our pick, while need might wait for the Clippers pick or the second rounder.

2020         2021
Mitch         Mitch
Taj
Knox         Knox
Iggy          Iggy
Bullock     
Barrett      Barrett
Ellington
Frank
Payton
CP3           CP3
Lotto2020 Lotto 2020
Late 2020 Late 2020
2ndR2020 2ndR 2020
FA big        FA big
                2021 1st
                2021 1st

It gives Frank and Payton a year to learn to shoot. It also leaves a couple of spots for using bird rights and exceptions. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 07, 2020, 05:34:42 AM
It's funny how Elf gains confidence and looks like a starter after the season is lost.  Two years running now.  He's even friskier on D.
Maybe the CP3 trade talk motivated him.
If Elf could become a decent 3 point shooter, he could be our starting PG.

Knix lack of shooting was on full display v OKC.

Also the passing was bad.  There were a handful of times where a pass went into a player with two defenders nearby, and was nearly stolen or resulted in a quick double team.  And I'm talking 18 feet out, not entry passes to the post.  Franc was guilty of suckering Portis this way; Randle did it to Portis later, and I forget the others right now.

In the 4Q Trier was trying to put pressure on the D, but after penetrating his kick out passes were off line.  One pass to Dot in the corner was hard to catch and made what should have been an open rhythm corner3 more difficult.  There were also 2 or 3 consecutive possessions in the 4Q where the Knix whipped the ball all around the perimeter.  Problem is they never compromised the D or gained an advantage, just empty ball movement.  And I won't even get into Randle's wild pitches.  Looked like his head was elsewhere.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 07, 2020, 09:52:46 AM
We dont keep Payton if getting Paul

And we keep Randle.

Question is would they give us a #1 to take the contract?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 07, 2020, 09:56:09 AM
Paul
Ball
Barrett
Randle
Robinson

Frank
Dennis
Knox
Iggy
second first rounder

add...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 07, 2020, 10:31:43 AM
Best to keep Randle so then we'd have 2 legit starters.
But Randle's game is pretty unappealing to me.
I'm fine with him here for the next year or two, but he's not a long term piece imo.
Randle would look better next to CP3, and he'd handle and turnover the ball less.

Paul is still good.  OKC not giving us a #1 for him unless we give them a real good package (which we don't really have).
Title: Chris Paul has zero interest in playing for...
Post by: lesterluv on March 07, 2020, 02:28:10 PM
...the most embarrassing, ass-backwards franchise in sports. He made that QUITE clear through his nicely-adorned sneakers when we played.
(https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2020/03/07/USAT/0464ae94-6f06-4f04-805f-451de654df90-2020-03-05_Paul_shoes.jpg?crop=3720,2756,x614,y700&width=660&height=489&format=pjpg&auto=webp)

no, you don't just say "F Spike Lee"
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 07, 2020, 02:40:28 PM
No, no new "first since Shaq" or "first since Chamberlain" or "first since himself" 35++++ for our jettisoned Latvian unicorn. Just a Friday-night league high +38 plus/minus as Mavs smash n' trash the Griz.

**** Ricky Rubio was close with a sweet +32 game during the Aaron Baynes Bonanza for the Suns

*** don't want to hear about it more? pissy off — I got to PTSD cope every time I watch the ball bounce off Julius' ass.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 07, 2020, 06:59:22 PM
But Les, KZ wanted out, nothing we could do, move on, watch a lousy team play lousy ball.  It's all good .... shrug.

Just a disaster that will cost us 3 or 4 years if we're lucky.

So 20 games left, you're heading to the playoffs as a low seed, your star player(s) are out for the year, so  ... time to fire your coach ...
What's going on in Netsland!?!
Atkinson have coronavirus or something?

Kenny Atkinson has proven to be a good development coach, with Knick ties.  Should go on the short list.  Of course find out what went on in BKY, but my guess is it's some crap Kyrie pulled.  And Durant is his buddy/enabler.  Lotta young Net players improved under Atkinson.  Dinwiddie, LaVert, Jarrett, Kurucs last year.  He gets good defensive effort.

Very weird timing. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 07, 2020, 08:38:38 PM
The KPers still haven't answered -

just how good did they see us getting had we kept their whiny whitey?
Title: Chris Paul
Post by: chipstern on March 07, 2020, 11:25:47 PM
Another absurd false flag for Knicks fans to hitch their wagon to.

Media driven BS. 

STILL A GREAT PLAYER. 

But, I mean, get fucking real.

Oh, and why would Paul want to play for DOLAN?

And, yeah, let's bring back Melo and Amare, while we're at it. 

PS: Thunder leveraged Alexander and five, count them, five #1 picks when George pulled a Porzingis and leveraged his way out of Dodge.  The debate as to KP is ludicrous...he is getting better and better. 

Wanted out of Gulag Dolan.

There's a shocker. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 07, 2020, 11:35:07 PM
Why do you speak as if Chris Paul has a no trade clause?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 07, 2020, 11:40:38 PM
PS: Thunder leveraged Alexander and five, count them, five #1 picks when George pulled a Porzingis and leveraged his way out of Dodge.  The debate as to KP is ludicrous...he is getting better and better.


PG for Shae and magic beans
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Singapore Online Store Drug  Buy Cialis (https://apcialisle.com/#) Buy Levitra?Overnight Delivery  <a href=https://apcialisle.com/#>Cialis</a> Cialis Rezept Falschen 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on March 08, 2020, 01:14:56 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 07, 2020, 11:35:07 PM
Why do you speak as if Chris Paul has a no trade clause?

Because at.40 fucking million a year he ain't going any where he doesn't want to go.

Capiche?.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 08, 2020, 04:31:29 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 07, 2020, 08:38:38 PM
The KPers still haven't answered -
just how good did they see us getting had we kept their whiny whitey?

One helluva lot better than we are.
9 more W's and we'd be tied with BKY & ORL for the 7/8 playoff slots.

But the key issue is we'd have a franchise player, a 2-way guy who can play at an all-star level.  We'd have a rim protector.  Orange & Blue Julius "Turnover" Randle wouldn't be our best offensive player.  We'd have a direction and know what we are building around.  We'd still need a starting level PG, but we'd know the type of player to hunt up.  For example a strong PnR G such as Tangelo would make sense next to KZ.  And KZ at the rim would mitigate Tangelo's defensive shortcomings.  Not saying we'd have him, but we'd know who fits and what works.  We'd have the beginnings of a team blueprint, regardless of this season's win total.

When you've bottomed out, the hardest thing in the NBofA is getting a #1 or even a #2 scorer for a playoff team.  Also getting a high level two-way player.  KZ checks those boxes.
 
Right now we have no building blocks.  And have to hope raw yute such as RJB and Mitch become legit starters, While Knox and Franc become solid role players.  And none of that likely gets you into the playoff convo.

The other issue is the Knix just jerked around Melo, Noah and KZ over the past 4 years or so.  These guys are all respected pros.  Players and agents notice this.  I think it limits the Knix attractiveness to FA's.  Guys tend to get tarnished in NYK and there are too many distractions and coaching/executive turnover.

Lastly, Chip's right.  OKC got Shai Guy for PG, we got Jr. Smith for KZ.  Knix always get 60 cents on the dollar in every trade.  We tend to give up the best player (TyC, KZ, MaMO, etc) and get back a bunch of change.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 08, 2020, 11:37:16 AM
I think Barrett is a building block.

Knicks whiffed on the other two.  Sad.

Like I said - we werent going to be great with KP.  You confirmed this with your answer.

Big pick coming up.  If we go DRAFT BALL, SIGN BALL in next 4 years I will be fine with that.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 08, 2020, 06:20:47 PM
Terrible game from Marcus Morris.
Couldn't make a shot, then couldn't guard LBJ late.
Don't know if anyone was talking on D, but twice MaMo gave LeBJ a driving land to the side where there was no help.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 08, 2020, 07:51:19 PM
I dont know what some pundits were thinking

Lakers are the clear class of the west.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 08, 2020, 07:52:18 PM
Don't know if anyone was talking on D, but twice MaMo gave LeBJ a driving land to the side where there was no help.


In MM's defense - so did Kawhi.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 08, 2020, 08:51:38 PM
Quote from: chipstern on March 08, 2020, 01:14:56 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 07, 2020, 11:35:07 PM
Why do you speak as if Chris Paul has a no trade clause?

Because at.40 fucking million a year he ain't going any where he doesn't want to go.

Capiche?.

Are you serious? At 40 million a year he will go to any team that wants him. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on March 08, 2020, 09:11:07 PM
Quote from: Kam on March 08, 2020, 08:51:38 PM
Quote from: chipstern on March 08, 2020, 01:14:56 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 07, 2020, 11:35:07 PM
Why do you speak as if Chris Paul has a no trade clause?

Because at.40 fucking million a year he ain't going any where he doesn't want to go.

Capiche?.

Are you serious? At 40 million a year he will go to any team that wants him.

If I’m CP3 I’d rather spend my last pre-retirement years in NYC than OKC, given that I’m gonna be playing for a 7th or 8th seed in either place.

Knix would be crazy if they go for it unless they get multiple #1s for their dough. But who knows what Rose and our new lifestyle guru may be thunkin’?
Title: SO what
Post by: Kam on March 08, 2020, 09:33:36 PM
Quote from: chipstern on March 07, 2020, 11:25:47 PM

Wanted out of Gulag Dolan.

There's a shocker.

That's not an excuse.   The free pass he is given in his forum is ridiculous.   He knew who Dolan was.  If he didn't want to be MR. 15-year Knick that's fine.  But he went back on his word and asked for a trade.  So he turned his back on all knicks fans.  Bringing him up after a good game is a weak move because there's no follow up when he plays bad. 
 
We accept Dolan because we have no choice.  He's like the weather.  Don't like NY weather? Either move or stop talking about it.  KP  chose escape rather than heroism.  A punk move.  Excusable in his youth and with his family in his ear. But a punk move nonetheless.  That's how i will always feel. 

Opinions here are bathed in groupthink and fueled by extreme recency bias.   That's why the lowbrow among us didn't get the point when i brought up Trier's two game PER average.  Recency is everything for these forumites...  why just look at your Gulag escapee tonight  ... 38minutes   3-17   0-5 from 3, 9pts 8rebs 4TOs in a LOSS.

If these forum knicks-truthers had an ounce of consistency they wouldn't thump their chests after every  good game.  I have to remind them of their trolling hypocrisy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 08, 2020, 10:19:29 PM
KP did what?

hahahahahaaaaaaaa.......
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 08, 2020, 10:20:46 PM
I see THJ almost pulled it out of the fire

11-21, 30-spot.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on March 08, 2020, 11:14:50 PM
Did the Knix actually trade for the no talent Moe Harkless?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 08, 2020, 11:34:40 PM
No.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 09, 2020, 04:12:30 AM
Our building block went 1-4 on FT's, 1-4 on 3's, and 5-16 FG overall.
Even on his 27 point explosion the other day, I thought RJB's shooting form looked awkward.  The guy has a good body, is athletic and usually plays with energy.  But right now he's mainly talented at bulling his way to the rim.  Which is also Randle's game.  Both would be helped by having shooters out there.  And defenders, since they aren't.  RJB needs to either learn to play defense or develop a jumper or both.  if he can't do that, then he'll be a disappointment.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 09, 2020, 04:22:13 AM
I think this season has been especially low on upsets.  But last night, PHX beat MIL.  And ORL smacked around HOU.  At home Rockettes were down by 25 (71-46) at halftime and never mounted a challenge.  Game before, HOU was down 20-0 to CHA to open the contest.  4 game slump started with a loss to the Knix.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 09, 2020, 04:26:53 AM
Both RJ and Randle need to be willing to give up the ball earlier, set better screens and make cuts. That will both reduce bad shots and generate easy opportunities. Dialing in the shooting from distance and the stripe would help as well.

Miller seems to be getting a little of his Trey Burke sauce into young Frank slowly but surely as the season wears on.

None of these guys are so far along that they can’t continue to evolve and improve their games.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 09, 2020, 08:18:20 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 09, 2020, 04:12:30 AM
Our building block went 1-4 on FT's, 1-4 on 3's, and 5-16 FG overall.
Even on his 27 point explosion the other day, I thought RJB's shooting form looked awkward.  The guy has a good body, is athletic and usually plays with energy.  But right now he's mainly talented at bulling his way to the rim.  Which is also Randle's game.  Both would be helped by having shooters out there.  And defenders, since they aren't.  RJB needs to either learn to play defense or develop a jumper or both.  if he can't do that, then he'll be a disappointment.

If he is not a perennial all star he is a disappointment to many Knick fans

But all yous ay is true.

CHARACTER guy though - Barrett - and he does enough even on his bad shooting days to be a "building block" - even now - his rookie campaign.

Frank is coming along as a second unit keeper as well.  I may have been mistaken on his 6 mil option as he likely has some trade value - and court value has some upside for '20-'21.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 09, 2020, 10:49:31 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 09, 2020, 04:12:30 AM
Our building block went 1-4 on FT's, 1-4 on 3's, and 5-16 FG overall.
Even on his 27 point explosion the other day, I thought RJB's shooting form looked awkward.  The guy has a good body, is athletic and usually plays with energy.  But right now he's mainly talented at bulling his way to the rim.  Which is also Randle's game.  Both would be helped by having shooters out there.  And defenders, since they aren't.  RJB needs to either learn to play defense or develop a jumper or both.  if he can't do that, then he'll be a disappointment.

Randle's was a stopgap plan B signing.  His throwback game fits with NOBODY. Let's stop pretending that we need to fit around Randle.  Or even care whose game aligns with his.  The hardest thing to do in the NBA is build around a guy like Randle.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 09, 2020, 12:28:01 PM
Randle has already in his young career played with players that were more ball-needy - thus handling less himself - and adapted fine.

On this team he and Barrett HAVE to create - or there would be nothing.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 09, 2020, 12:41:51 PM
I've been saying from the day we signed him that Randle is a difficult player to build a team around, or to fit well on a team.  You basically need a rim protecting C who can stretch the floor on O.  Essentially Ma Gasol & Brook Lopez. 

And you need ballhandlers and passers and 3-point shooters to keep Randle's responsibility in those areas limited.  He's good at boarding and bulling his way inside.  A somewhat limited skillset in today's NBA.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 09, 2020, 02:29:30 PM
Zion per 36

28/8/2.5/1

Randle per 36

21/11/3.5/1
Title: Reddish
Post by: Kam on March 09, 2020, 11:31:22 PM
Cam Reddish is quietly getting into a groove. 

You know that Luka/Trae Young trade also netted the Hawks Reddish and DeAndre Hunter.

The Hawks got a very good haul for Luka for sure.  Three great prospects.  Still rather have Luka.  But it's very intersting and could change.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 10, 2020, 04:13:21 AM
Am I missing something?
Wasn't it just TRae and one 1st, which was used for Kam Red. 

And Hunter was ATL's own 1st round pick.

Quote
Traded by the Atlanta Hawks to the Dallas Mavericks for Trae Young and a 2019 1st round draft pick (Cam Reddish was later selected). (2019 1st-rd pick was top-5 protected.)

And Reddish has really improved the last month or two.
After a horrendous start, he's been a useful player.
Took him a little time to find his rhythm, confidence, game.  The NBA isn't an easy adjustment. Everyone is big, fast, can shoot (well, on other teams at least).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 10, 2020, 04:29:28 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 09, 2020, 02:29:30 PM
Zion per 36:   28/8/2.5/1
Randle per 36:  21/11/3.5/1

Meaning what exactly?
What's your interpretation of that?
Why'd you post it?

Surely you don't think Randle is as good as (19 year old) Zion.
And Kam might be off his nut these days, but probably doesn't think Randle is as good as KZ.  Yet posted a similar comparison.

Tell us what you think is going on  ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 10, 2020, 05:41:46 AM
GS has 15 W's.  And the worst record locked up if they want.

Cavs and TWolves 19 W's.
Knix, Pissedons, Hawks 20 W's.

At this point I'd rather have the 2nd or 3rd worst record than the 6th (or 7th, Bulls just 21 W's).

Whereforewise, I'd start Mitch and Franc (or Jr. Smith) and Knox.
Smith - RJB - Knox - Randle - Mitch.
Elf and Taj, Hark and Portis as 2nd unit.
Hell, cna run 5 or 6 games with Portis starting and Randle sitting as well.

Only 16 games left.  Let's see what our pups can do.
Knox can use some long minute runs.
Same with Franc'n'Smith.

All in on development and game time for the yute.
W's be damned.
DET is going to be hard to slot under (since they excised their top players).  Hawks and Bulls trying to win games.
Just need to drop below CLE and MIN.

A Top 3 lottery slotting would be good.  Likely a Top 5 pick, and 7th at worst.  No reason to drop a couple slots down with meaningless wins secured by vets who won't be back.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 10, 2020, 05:43:15 AM
20 - 44.
16 games left.

Looks like whoever picked mid-20's will be closest.
Forget what i went with.
29 W's?

Will look for the prediction list when I have a chance.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 10, 2020, 07:09:22 AM
It was a separate trade indeed - with the Pelicans

ATL sent the 8 and 16, I think - who ended up being Jaxon Hayes and Nick Alex-Walker - and got the #4 pick Hunter.  Other things involved as well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 10, 2020, 08:29:18 AM
Some nice wheeling and dealing and drafting by ATL.

2019
Flipped  #8 (Jax Hayes) & #17 (NAW) for the #4 DeAndre Hunter

2018
Turned Luka into Trae and a next year 1st they used on Cam Reddish (#10 pick).  Also used a #19 pick they had from wherever for Huerter.

2017
John Collins #19.

They were a rock bottom depleted team.
Filled in their roster nicely.
Trae - Huerter -Reddish - Hunter - Collins in a 3 year period.

They also drafted DeVonte in the 2018 2nd round (#34) but flipped him for a next year 2nd.  Not that Trae & Graham are a viable backcourt, but DevGraham would be a strong bench microwave.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 10, 2020, 08:41:27 AM
Final 16 games kick off with 3 Road games in 4 nights.
ATL on the back end of a Road B2B.

Then a 5 game sequence:
CHA  -  @ BOS  - GS  - LAC  - TOR
___________________________

A 3 game Road Trip
@ NO  - @ CHI  - @MEMf

3 at MSG:
MINN  -  MIA  - ORL

@ OKC  -  @ TOR
v. DET  -  @  MIN
____________________________________________
So 3 Road games against team at or about our Win total.
@ATL -  @CHI -  @MIN
MIN - GSW  - DET at Home.
2 other winnable games CHA & ORL at MSG.

Even split those 8 and lose to the 8 playoff teams, and a 4-12 finish would serve us well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 10, 2020, 12:46:29 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 10, 2020, 05:43:15 AM

Looks like whoever picked mid-20's will be closest.
Forget what i went with.
29 W's?

Will look for the prediction list when I have a chance.

Me 'n Carlos about to be knocked out by overachievement of all things.

But: I believe I had one or two contingency modifiers. Something like...

+ 5 if Knox averaged less than 10 mpg (not met)
+ 5 or +10 if F&kwhale fired by X-mas (met, thank god almighty, might put me back in the game, and still a source of daily joy)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 10, 2020, 12:51:43 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 10, 2020, 05:41:46 AM

At this point I'd rather have the 2nd or 3rd worst record than the 6th (or 7th, Bulls just 21 W's).

Whereforewise, I'd start Mitch and Franc (or Jr. Smith) and Knox.
Smith - RJB - Knox - Randle - Mitch.
Elf and Taj, Hark and Portis as 2nd unit.
Hell, cna run 5 or 6 games with Portis starting and Randle sitting as well.

Only 16 games left.  Let's see what our pups can do.
Knox can use some long minute runs.
Same with Franc'n'Smith.

All in on development and game time for the yute.
W's be damned.
DET is going to be hard to slot under (since they excised their top players).  Hawks and Bulls trying to win games.
Just need to drop below CLE and MIN.

A Top 3 lottery slotting would be good.  Likely a Top 5 pick, and 7th at worst.  No reason to drop a couple slots down with meaningless wins secured by vets who won't be back.

All in for development, too, but really, don't worry about that lottery position and w/l's. Last year showed that clearly and the 7 & 8 teams will be happy as clams for a decade.

Silver won. Nobody's tanking ala Knicks' disgrace last year. (save for maybe the Pistons in their own way, late.). Good for the league. Good for the fans. Good for the teams. Good for the game. One really nice move.

Wherever we land there'll be a player and we gotta stick the pick.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 10, 2020, 02:24:27 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 10, 2020, 08:29:18 AM
Some nice wheeling and dealing and drafting by ATL.

2019
Flipped  #8 (Jax Hayes) & #17 (NAW) for the #4 DeAndre Hunter

2018
Turned Luka into Trae and a next year 1st they used on Cam Reddish (#10 pick).  Also used a #19 pick they had from wherever for Huerter.

2017
John Collins #19.

They were a rock bottom depleted team.
Filled in their roster nicely.
Trae - Huerter -Reddish - Hunter - Collins in a 3 year period.

They also drafted DeVonte in the 2018 2nd round (#34) but flipped him for a next year 2nd.  Not that Trae & Graham are a viable backcourt, but DevGraham would be a strong bench microwave.


But....

not enough

Who will choose to play there?

Right now they may be looking at needing to deal Young to get their team really going (see Pelicans and AD - who are in better shape)

Young to Knicks in 2023?

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 10, 2020, 02:26:04 PM
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2880165-report-hawks-hesitant-to-pay-john-collins-significant-money-in-new-contract
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 10, 2020, 03:31:03 PM
Why wouldn't anyone want to play there?
Atlanta is like the black capital of the nation.
Good weather too.

I forgot they added Capela.  A perfect move imo, as they need defense and a rim runner for Trae to PnR with.
Trae - Huerter - Hunter - Collins - Capela
Teague - Bembry - Reddish - Dedmon

That's a playoff team next year.
They just need experience, more time together, and fill in another role player or two.  They'll add a Top 10 pick this Summer.

I like the role payers they picked up the past few years.
Alex Len cheaply.  Vince as a wise oldhead.  Jabari as a trial.
They've shown some loyalty bringing back Teague and Deadman.

Seems like a well-run team poised to hit .500 next year, and be a playoff team every year.  An up and coming team with an exciting young player.
Don't know why players wouldn't want to sign up.  They could use a defensive SG and a backup PF.  They'll work out a deal with Collins.  At worst wait until RFA and match anything.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 10, 2020, 09:01:14 PM
Two bad teams playing an oddball game ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 10, 2020, 10:17:22 PM
Porzingis with another stinkus

THJ and Luka heroics not enough
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 10, 2020, 10:29:34 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 10, 2020, 09:01:14 PM
Two bad teams playing an oddball game ...

Wait - we lost that game?

Too funny.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 11, 2020, 12:16:07 AM
Randle with another giant pile of manure

Frank & Portis' heroics not enough

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 11, 2020, 12:32:43 AM
Julius played short minutes - just 11 shots

Good job by the bench
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 11, 2020, 12:43:09 AM
Lol, he played short minutes because he sucked so bad. Miller had to yank him (along with the other starters). Was ugly...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 11, 2020, 12:47:32 AM
Randle would do a move or two and pass out.  Wasn't forcing shots.  Bryant sort of a body double and pestered him.  But Randle had midge Napier on him a few times and didn't do much.  Rare lackluster energy from Julius.  His rebounds reflect that.  He did all right when he just started taking open midrange shots instead of semi-bulling in.  Also fouled out, including a trio of 4Q fouls where he was a step late/slow.

20/10 game for Free-Franc.  Active and aggressive.

Bullington 44 mins combined.  Not a cameo for Dot.  Is he okay?
I'd rather see Dot out there than either of those two.  El-train won't be back.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 11, 2020, 01:03:18 AM
Poor shooting, but good boards and blocks.  KZ and the non-Luka starters were all -1.  Luka and the bench were -9.  Didn't see the game.

When I've seen DAL, KZinger tends to take long 3's and sometimes rush them.  For a few guys -- Scurry, Lillard, Trae -- the long 3 is reasonable.  KZ needs to be closer to the line.  Not like anyone is going to block a 7'3" guy form outside.  When waiting off the ball, he needs to be near the line not 3- or 4 feet behind.

Les you like to proclaim tanking dead.  But GS sure did it this year knowing it's their only chance to dip into the high draft for years (Top 5 guaranteed with a little more losing, and 50/50 Top 3).  While DET jettisoned everyone who could play and is aiming for 2nd worst record.  That's two teams actively tanking.  And I'd advise the Knix to be the 3rd. 

Losing to ATL on the 2nd night of a Road B2B would help.  And drop a pair to MINN and the draft slot improves.  Not a deep draft class, which might make the tankeroo more important.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 11, 2020, 08:26:14 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on March 11, 2020, 12:43:09 AM
Lol, he played short minutes because he sucked so bad. Miller had to yank him (along with the other starters). Was ugly...

Hachimura effect?

Cant comment til I see the replay.

I do see the 4 turnovers in the box in 26 minutes, 1 above his average.  But it's the 11 shots that stood out.  (5 under average)  3rd time in 10 games he has had that few. and Julius has only played his average of 32 minutes 3 in last ten.

Julius also has just 9 three point attempts in last 6 games (0 last night), just 40% of average - which is what many want.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 11, 2020, 08:55:38 AM
Poor shooting, but good boards and blocks.  KZ and the non-Luka starters were all -1.  Luka and the bench were -9.  Didn't see the game.


Once again KP showed he is NOT a very good on ball defender (cornerstone of defense, of course).  Has excellent defensive vision and anticipation from an off the ball perspective, getting to his HELP D spots.  But Aldridge cooked him pretty good - and this so often gets lost in the sauce in today's team D heavy (in terms of analysis) NBA.

Meanwhile some kid I never heard of for Spurs locked down Luka pretty good a few times in 1 v 1 settings.  Great individual effort.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 11, 2020, 09:57:31 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 11, 2020, 01:03:18 AM
Les you like to proclaim tanking dead.  But GS sure did it this year knowing it's their only chance to dip into the high draft for years (Top 5 guaranteed with a little more losing, and 50/50 Top 3).  While DET jettisoned everyone who could play and is aiming for 2nd worst record.  That's two teams actively tanking.  And I'd advise the Knix to be the 3rd. 

I'm going to stick w/my opinion here.

Detroit. Kind of. Yeah. But really more of a mid-season franchise reboot when they realized there was no hope whatsoever.

GS lost 3 hall of famers. That's not tanking. That's god striking you down, now claim your prize. Which is going to be a pretty good pick. They did by no means do a "Knicks."

Draymond still averages almost 30 mpg when he's not sitting with a sore knee -- and it's just stupid to play him with a sore knee when nothing is at stake. They didn't shelve Curry for the season. Probably could have. They got good coin for D'angelo with an eye toward future. Their best players play. They play to win.  They just don't win much.

Most of the worst teams in the league were buyers, not sellers at the trade deadline. Atlanta. Minnesota. Cleveland. Looking to improve for second half and beyond. The Bulls could have sold assets. They didn't. This is a fundamentally changed landscape.

Most teams get it. The new rules mean jockeying down isn't worth it.

If we hadn't — odds are prob at least 50/50 we have Morant or Zion right now — no argument, we know where those ping pong balls fell— odds would have been much better that we would have at least landed meetings with the top free agents who laughed and refused to even pick up the phone.  And an absolutely disgusted fan base might be a trifle less disgusted.

Let's agree to disagree. I think things are quite different, and I'm happy about it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 11, 2020, 10:18:00 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 10, 2020, 04:13:21 AM
Am I missing something?
Wasn't it just TRae and one 1st, which was used for Kam Red. 

And Hunter was ATL's own 1st round pick.



Hunter was the Lakers pick. 
And if Luka was a Hawk then they don't have the 8th pick to trade for Hunter.

1.  Pelicans draft Zion Williamson

2.  Grizzlies draft Ja Morant

3.  Knicks draft RJ Barrett

4.  Lakers draft De'Andre Hunter >> officially traded to the Hawks, after first being dealt to the Pelicans

5.  Cavaliers draft Darius Garland

6.  Suns draft Jarrett Culver >> officially traded to the Timberwolves

7.  Bulls draft Coby White

8.  Hawks draft Jaxson Hayes >> officially traded to the Pelicans

9.  Wizards draft Rui Hachimura

10.  Hawks draft Cam Reddish
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 11, 2020, 10:25:57 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 10, 2020, 04:29:28 AM

And Kam might be off his nut these days


Bo don't know.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 11, 2020, 10:33:13 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on March 11, 2020, 12:16:07 AM
Randle with another giant pile of manure

Frank & Portis' heroics not enough


Porzingod now with 9pts back-to-back! WHOP  WHOP!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 11, 2020, 11:18:50 AM
And if Luka was a Hawk then they don't have the 8th pick to trade for Hunter.


Not sure this is accurate

Luka went for 2 picks - Young and the pick that became Reddish.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 11, 2020, 11:24:18 AM
The Hunter pick (#4 - Lakers) was dealt to the PELICANS in the AD trade.  Pels then dealt that for 2 picks - which became Hayes and Alexander-Walker with some other variables.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 11, 2020, 12:07:00 PM
Quote from: Kam on March 11, 2020, 10:33:13 AM

Porzingod now with 9pts back-to-back! WHOP  WHOP!!!

Thank goodness — I was worried you would be buried down in that hole and asphyixiate!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 11, 2020, 12:17:45 PM
There are a lot of reasons teams tank.
You're just providing explanatory context.

My definition of tanking: a team intentionally wins fewer games they they could/should have in order to secure a better draft slot.

I think that applies to GS.  Scurry could have come back sooner, Dray could play more.  Probably half the rotation players in the League have a sore knee, or something else sore.  I assume those two won't play a lot or long minutes if it threatens their lock on the worst record.  That's the goal for this year, not extra W's.  They never bothered to add a vet, just more yute trials, etc.

DET clearly gave up and doesn't care about winning another game, and is hoping for a high pick.

What's interesting is which 3rd or 4th team will join them.  So far all the other teams bunched around 19-21 W's have been playing to win.  But in the last 10-15 games at least one or more teams might just scrap an emphasis on winning and go the yute route, and rest vets, or key players, etc.

Knix could easily go that route by playing their iffy yute a lot more and their vets less.  This makes sense on a development level, but also to get a higher pick.

Will da Bulls sit Zach with a sore knee?  Or sore whatever.
I have no idea what MINi is about this year or how they wound up way down there.  They certainly aren't going to worry much about bringing KAT and Tangelo back quickly.  Cavs?  Hawks? 

Bulls, Knix, Hawks all have a lot of high picks and were aiming for development and a decent year.  CLE & MIN really could use a youth infusion a high pick could bring.

Let's see what the remaining 15 games and especially the last 10 tell us about whether a 3rd or 4th team join the tank parade.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 11, 2020, 12:22:22 PM
Watching third quarter.  Randle puts us up 18 with 2 buckets.  Barrett an absolute horror.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 11, 2020, 12:23:44 PM
Time to guard Bradley Beal Street ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 11, 2020, 12:38:30 PM
Main thing I see here is - despite his positive line - Frank cant run a team.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 11, 2020, 12:52:43 PM
Why is Kevin Knox in this game?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 11, 2020, 03:22:38 PM
KZ is still young and has a lot he can improve on.  But even in this down-and-up year, KZ is 13th in Defensive Real +/-.  Of the 12 guys above him, only 4 have a higher Offensive Real +/- rating: Giannis, LeBJ, Kawhi, Jokic.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM

Extend down to the Top 30 in DRPM, only adds Chris Paul with a better ORPM.  With Jimmy Butler with the same O rating.

Which corroborates my assertion the other day that KZ is a Top 10 2-way player.  Tatum close but below KZ on both metrics.

Others: Siakim and Anthony Davis.  Lowry, Embiid.

Best 2-way players:
1. Giannis
2. LeBJ
3. Kawhi
4. Anthony Davis
5. Butler
6.  KZ
7. Tatum
8. Middleton
9. Chris Paul
10. Siakim
11. Lowry
12. Embiid
13. Covington
14. Simmons
15. Jaylen

Something like that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jerrya on March 11, 2020, 04:02:51 PM
Thoughts on some players:
1.  Never seen a player like Randle...goes to the Basket, gets within a few feet and consistently  misses the shot.
2.  Ntilikina... with right coaching will be very good
3.  Knox...terrible pick.  Will be out of the league shortly
4.  Barrett...Still don't know.  Probably will be a utility player somewhere but definitely not worth the pick we used.  I think Calipari was wrong on his upside.
5. Robinson...will be great. 
6.  Payton...serviceable but not an elite PG to build around.  Doesn't have the mindset to be clutch.
7.  Portis...definitely a keeper.  Can help any team.
8.  Gibson...doesn't hurt the team.
9.  Rest to the roster...bla
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 11, 2020, 04:12:53 PM
Quote from: Jerrya on March 11, 2020, 04:02:51 PM
1.  Never seen a player like Randle...goes to the Basket, gets within a few feet and consistently  misses the shot.

Muddy did that for us.
Antoine Walker was masterful at driving, spinning, and tossing the ball at the rim.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 11, 2020, 05:43:58 PM
Maybe Jerry will give us some stats to back that up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 11, 2020, 05:46:21 PM
And I see he provides the obligatory Frank post after a positive game.  Yeah maybe 4th or 5th coach is the ticket.
Title: The Prophet Kiid
Post by: chipstern on March 11, 2020, 05:56:30 PM
In what quadrant of the known universe are the Hawks bailing on Trae.

Didn't realize you got high.  Happy you have access to some good ganja. 

Trae is a generational talent.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 11, 2020, 06:25:26 PM
KZ is still young and has a lot he can improve on.  But even in this down-and-up year, KZ is 13th in Defensive Real +/-. 


Nobody cares
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 11, 2020, 06:37:18 PM
I do! Nice stat..
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 11, 2020, 06:38:52 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 11, 2020, 12:38:30 PM
Main thing I see here is - despite his positive line - Frank cant run a team.

 That's what you saw ? I saw the ball bouncing off Julius ass again and again. Everybody sees what they want to see!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 11, 2020, 07:11:30 PM
Trae is a generational talent.


As is Anthony Davis

Get the drift - or is it way over yer noggin?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 11, 2020, 07:32:23 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on March 11, 2020, 12:07:00 PM
Quote from: Kam on March 11, 2020, 10:33:13 AM

Porzingod now with 9pts back-to-back! WHOP  WHOP!!!

Thank goodness — I was worried you would be buried down in that hole and asphyixiate!

Keep in moving mavtroll.
Title: The Smug Moron Award....The Envelope Please
Post by: chipstern on March 11, 2020, 09:10:44 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 11, 2020, 07:11:30 PM
Trae is a generational talent.


As is Anthony Davis

Get the drift - or is it way over yer noggin?

AND THE WEINER IS....

Kiid.

Dear tube steak.

Davis played SEVEN seasons for the Pelicans before he leveraged a trade.  And was on the tail end of his first big extension.

Trae is completing his second season on his rookie deal.

Too subtle a distinction?

My bad.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 11, 2020, 09:18:00 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 11, 2020, 03:22:38 PM

Which corroborates my assertion the other day that KZ is a Top 10 2-way player.  Tatum close but below KZ on both metrics.



Someone tell BO to be a great 2-way player you need to, you know, play.

Porzingis after two klunkers gets DNP-rest'd
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 11, 2020, 10:16:34 PM
Holy fucking shit. Game. World. Game.

I love them both as much as they both make me worry.

Be safe one and all & try to be smart about it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 11, 2020, 10:30:06 PM
NBA suspends season

Knicks lock into shittier pick.
Title: As compared to pure randomness, it would matter about once a half century.
Post by: lesterluv on March 11, 2020, 11:16:31 PM
lol, makes brain hurt this. I swear there must have been some kind of hiatus on teaching math during the formative years.

No they don't lock into shittier pick.

The pick is determined by the lotto ball.

The difference in chances between 4 & 5, and 5 & 6 at the number 1. 1.5 percent. At number 2 1.3 to 1.7 percent. And at the three guy, 1.2 to 1.3 percent.

Ya got a greater chance of dying of da corona if ya catch it then that making a difference.

*** or, if you don't believe the above, check out the Pelicans or Grizzlies roster, in your free time, which, if its like mine, will be far more copious now.
Title: If the season were to end today
Post by: Kam on March 11, 2020, 11:27:54 PM
Knicks locked into not being one of the bottom four.  Thus locked themselves into a shittier chance at the top pick.

Could still get lucky.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 11, 2020, 11:31:23 PM
Of course we can still get lucky. Luck is what this is all about. 1.2-1.7 percent difference per slot...as I say, math is def not a strong point here.

like paying 94 cents vs. 96 for a coffee

or 62 versus 64 degrees on a spring day.

Who gives a big fat flying fuck?

*** I think y'all the type that buy powerball tickets and call it your IRA
Title: I'm glad we went out trying to win and won.
Post by: lesterluv on March 11, 2020, 11:36:06 PM
I wish to god we had had an 8 to 9.5% shittier slot last year.

Cause then we'd be rocking Zion or Morant!

** Silver fixed things.  NBA GMs get it even if you guys don't. It all about luck gentlemen. So be prepared to stick the pick, where ever it is.

OK Fellows...here...jeez, our shot at pick 3 is 9.4 percent, the pistons is 10.6. I can't sleep at night. Where's my valium? Enjoy: http://www.tankathon.com/pick_odds (http://www.tankathon.com/pick_odds)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 12, 2020, 01:25:41 AM
Miller got as many wins as Fizz did all of last year. The ending on a Vince 3 was a classy move.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 12, 2020, 04:24:53 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on March 11, 2020, 11:31:23 PM
Of course we can still get lucky. Luck is what this is all about. 1.2-1.7 percent difference per slot...as I say, math is def not a strong point here.
like paying 94 cents vs. 96 for a coffee

Well, it's 1.3% +/- per slot, for 4 slots.  So becomes roughly 5%, which isn't huge, but isn't negligible (as 1.3% is).

Sure one slot (the price of winning v. ATL) isn't a big deal, but probably knocks a team back a slot.  Which has cost us some good players in the past (ie Scurry).  I was advocating tanking and trying to get the 3rd worst record.  That'd have a 67% chance of Top 5.

NYK with a 50.4% chance of picking 7th or 8th.  54.2% chance of picking 7th or lower.  Not bad, but this was a misery year.  And a weak draft.  Fizz would have led us to a higher pick ...




Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 12, 2020, 06:10:35 AM
Knicks have some much needed time to work on their shooting, from the field & from the stripe.

Not that invested in outcomes for the season. There might be some interesting broadcast potential interms of how to deliver games in empty gyms, especially live sound.

As for the Draft, I want me some Obi Toppin. Don’t care what pick is needed to get him, so long as we have that pick. Homeboy is ready.

Frank, RJ, Mitch, Obi, Knox, Iggy. I’d like Trier & Dot back, but I don’t know how they feel about it.

Portis and Randle are only 25. Payton is not much older. Neither Taj nor Reggie are too old to be regular contributors. Same is true for Harkless.

The only guys I hope not to see back are Ellington and Smith, though Smith might be rehabilitatable.

With Smith that’s 13 guys, 2 picks and whatever occurs with Trier, Dot, Harkless in the FA shuffle.

I think Toppin is a better long term solution at strong forward than Randle or Portis, but they’ll be good guys to play with as he enters the league and possibly beyond.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 12, 2020, 06:23:25 AM
I'd assume the NBA season is done and we'll be lucky if we get any playoffs.
The US gov't and the people are going to have to rapidly change their behavior to head off the virus.  It still could be contained, but is on the verge of busting out like mad throughout the US.  I don't have much faith.  Wouldn't be surprised to see the US place into 2nd most cases behind China, with a few states becoming like Italy.  So far too much has been reactive, when they could have looked at China and Taiwan and Italy and seen what works and what doesn't, and implemented serious measures before the spread.

Get masks available to all who want them.  Encourage their use.  Limit large public gatherings.  Space people out where possible.  Increase availability of test kits dramatically.  Train doctors and nurses how to use protective gear and handle patients.  Have back up nurse trainees and paramedics ready to help out.

Have emergency plans for temporary isolation wards.  China just shut the last of over a dozen public buildings -- schools and arenas -- used as temp isolation areas for those who tested in Wuhan.  They just set up cubicles with beds and presumably didn't let people go anywhere until they tested negative.  China also built two temp hospitals in about 10 days.  And has requisitioned some hotels for patients.  If the number of cases explodes, there won't be enough hospital space to isolate patients, and won't be enough nurses to care for them, especially if nurses get sick too.

Get more people working from home.  Encourage limited travel, both personal and business.   Face masks and spacing people out in public.  Maybe providing hand sanitizer stations in busy public places like train stations, airports, malls.  Gloves aren't a bad idea in affected areas.  Precautions are good.  Epidemic viruses spreading rapidly are bad.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 12, 2020, 06:34:22 AM
Dot, Trier, Bullox, Duke Ellington.
I think we need to just keep one vet and one yute.
Franc also plays the 2 at times, as does RJB.

I'd stick with Dot and Bullocks.
Dot & Bullocks can both man up to the 3 better than Ellington and Trier.
And they are better defenders than Trier and Ellington (respectively).

There's not one Knick I think is an essential keeper.
I'd like to hang on to Mitch, but I was willing to move him in a Tangelo trade.  RJB should be retained because he's super young and our best bet of a legit starter among our yute.  But he do have his flaws, and if he went, I wouldn't care much, as long as the return was good.

Guys I want back: Mitch, RJB, Elf.
Everybody else is mostly uninteresting placeholders.

Did any Knick improve or up their value this season?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 12, 2020, 07:19:09 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 12, 2020, 06:10:35 AM
Knicks have some much needed time to work on their shooting, from the field & from the stripe.

Knicks quarantined for the next 2 weeks since they played Utah and Rudy Flubert recently.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 12, 2020, 07:23:22 AM
Hopefully there’s somewhere for each to go with a hoop. 2 weeks pure shooting drills.
Title: the final final final final word for you can't count motherf'ers
Post by: lesterluv on March 12, 2020, 09:04:15 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 12, 2020, 04:24:53 AM

Sure one slot (the price of winning v. ATL) isn't a big deal, but probably knocks a team back a slot. Which has cost us some good players in the past (ie Scurry).  I was advocating tanking and trying to get the 3rd worst record.  That'd have a 67% chance of Top 5.

NYK with a 50.4% chance of picking 7th or 8th.  54.2% chance of picking 7th or lower.  Not bad, but this was a misery year.  And a weak draft.  Fizz would have led us to a higher pick ...

LOL, really the last word on this. The win probably does NOT knock the team back a slot in the top 5.

THE WIN HAS ABSOLUTELY MINIMAL EFFECT ON OUR CHANCE OF LANDING A TOP FIVE PICK

*** which is actually reasonable, significantly better shot at moving up to the good stuff than in the old days, thanks Adam Silver, we did try, and as per your guidance, we have a shot at being rewarded for that effort, fuck thee who play to lose

Maybe it's English, not math, you m'fer's don't understand. Do we need a crash course on "probably/probable"?

LMAO
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 12, 2020, 09:05:59 AM
Finally, finally we can say Emmanuel Mudiay has made a true impact in the league...


*** actually, I'm mistaken, if we are talking numbers, last year, he was probably a full 16.5-19% of the reason we didn't get Zion or Morant, so he already had some impact!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 12, 2020, 09:24:39 AM
How good arfe we if we keep everyone - if Harkless will stay on - and just add the 2/3 picks?

Is that doable financially? - I am talking keeping Bobby and Taj and Elfrid and Mo

Please dont come back with "YES, if we trade Randle"
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 12, 2020, 09:25:35 AM
Chip's Hawks sure looked like a "ready to contend" team last night

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 12, 2020, 09:38:30 AM
Gonna guess that Mudiay and Gobert have traveled to France recently - or some in their respective posses/families have.

Have to wonder, have concern now about FRANK.
Title: Re: the final final final final word for you can't count motherf'ers
Post by: bodiddley on March 12, 2020, 09:53:53 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on March 12, 2020, 09:04:15 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 12, 2020, 04:24:53 AM
probably knocks a team back a slot. Which has cost us some good players in the past (ie Scurry). 
NYK with a 50.4% chance of picking 7th or 8th.  54.2% chance of picking 7th or lower.

The win probably does NOT knock the team back a slot in the top 5.

THE WIN HAS ABSOLUTELY MINIMAL EFFECT ON OUR CHANCE OF LANDING A TOP FIVE PICK
Do we need a crash course on "probably/probable"?

A minimal effect on the lottery odds  -- a 4.9% worse chance of landing a Top 4 pick.  Btw, Knix can't be 5th.  Though I'd still rather a 42.1% chance than a 37.2% chance  (and if you go Top 5, DET bounces up to 44.3).  But that's not what is probable, is it?

The Knix have a 54.2% chance of picking 7-9.  That's what is probable and where we get likely get bumped back a slot.  If our 37.2% chance doesn't hit, than we are slotted behind one more team (that finished with a worse record than us).  Our probable is 7th or 8th; DET's probable is 6th or 7th.
A one slot difference mathboy.

The real risk is that one or more of CHI, CHA and WSH with their roughly 30%/25%/20% respectively -- or another team with lower odds -- get a lotto hit and bump us back if we miss on our 37% chance.
Title: Re: the final final final final word for you can't count motherf'ers
Post by: lesterluv on March 12, 2020, 10:12:18 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 12, 2020, 09:53:53 AM

A minimal effect on the lottery odds 

OK, now you're showing you understand the math. Some other folks clearly don't.

We disagree strongly on the value or detrimental effect of intentionally losing games to increase your shot of 6th over 7th or 7th over 8th. OK.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 12, 2020, 10:18:12 AM
I'd also rec keeping tissues in your coat or pants pocket so when you need to rub your nose you do it with a tissue instead of your hand.

Stores, malls, office buildings, restaurants, etc. should have digital thermometers and scan people's temps (wrist or forehead work) before admitting people.  Takes a second. 

I'd rec getting a jump rope for some exercise when all gyms are closed.

Free advice.  I'm months ahead of you.  This is where things are likely headed.

China officially reported just 24 new cases (5 of them imported-- 4 from Italy and one from the US, I think) yesterday.  Achieved using quarantines, isolation wards, face masks in public, temp screenings and masks to enter anywhere, spacing out people in restaurants as much as possible (when eating people wont be wearing masks much at all), work at home, limiting entrance to living and work areas and recording names of admitted people, and early on extending the national holiday an extra week or more.

Some cities and one whole province faced a mandatory lockdown.   Hangzhou south of Shanghai was only allowing one person per family to go out once a day to get food/medicine.

Some serious measures, but they've gotten things under control (for now).
The main issue for China now is Hubei province where the infection started and spread before effective action was taken, and had almost 70K cases, with nearly 60K of those recovered.  (50K of those cases were in Wuhan).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 12, 2020, 10:35:59 AM
It's easy to find examples where the Knix either got screwed by one slot or lucky.

2009
#7 Scurry MVP x 2
#8 Jordan Hill of Beans

2011
#14 Marcus Morris
#15 Kawhi
#16 Vucevic
#17 Shumpy wumpy

2015
#4 KZ
#5 Hezonja
#6 Willy Curdled Stein
#7 Mudman
#8 Stan Johnson
#9 Frank the Tank

That's 3 out of our 4 1st round picks in a 7 year stretch where one slot made or would have made a huge difference.  Three of those years the Knix didn't have a 1st round pick as we used to trade those for Marberries and Bargnanis. 

Not that we necessarily would have taken the guys directly drafted ahead  the guy we actually picked, but it's usually a good indication of the consensus draft board.

More recently, in the case of Knox and Franc, we had some good choices and just blew the pick. Though I'd take Sexton and Markaanen, the guys selected just ahead of Knox and Franc respectively.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 12, 2020, 10:41:27 AM
Wow - Mr Young had quite the quarter (I razzed Chip just as i had finished watching the third - heh)


What a finish for CARTER.  All class.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 12, 2020, 10:44:18 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 12, 2020, 10:18:12 AM
I'd also rec keeping tissues in your coat or pants pocket so when you need to rub your nose you do it with a tissue instead of your hand.

Stores, malls, office buildings, restaurants, etc. should have digital thermometers and scan people's temps (wrist or forehead work) before admitting people.  Takes a second. 

I'd rec getting a jump rope for some exercise when all gyms are closed.

Free advice.  I'm months ahead of you.  This is where things are likely headed.

China officially reported just 24 new cases (5 of them imported-- 4 from Italy and one from the US, I think) yesterday.  Achieved using quarantines, isolation wards, face masks in public, temp screenings and masks to enter anywhere, spacing out people in restaurants as much as possible (when eating people wont be wearing masks much at all), work at home, limiting entrance to living and work areas and recording names of admitted people, and early on extending the national holiday an extra week or more.

Some cities and one whole province faced a mandatory lockdown.   Hangzhou south of Shanghai was only allowing one person per family to go out once a day to get food/medicine.

Some serious measures, but they've gotten things under control (for now).
The main issue for China now is Hubei province where the infection started and spread before effective action was taken, and had almost 70K cases, with nearly 60K of those recovered.  (50K of those cases were in Wuhan).

China's FEWER new cases are because most of the infected are no longer contagious. You realize this, right?

Title: Re: the final final final final word for you can't count motherf'ers
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 12, 2020, 10:47:45 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on March 12, 2020, 09:04:15 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 12, 2020, 04:24:53 AM

Sure one slot (the price of winning v. ATL) isn't a big deal, but probably knocks a team back a slot. Which has cost us some good players in the past (ie Scurry).  I was advocating tanking and trying to get the 3rd worst record.  That'd have a 67% chance of Top 5.

NYK with a 50.4% chance of picking 7th or 8th.  54.2% chance of picking 7th or lower.  Not bad, but this was a misery year.  And a weak draft.  Fizz would have led us to a higher pick ...

LOL, really the last word on this. The win probably does NOT knock the team back a slot in the top 5.

THE WIN HAS ABSOLUTELY MINIMAL EFFECT ON OUR CHANCE OF LANDING A TOP FIVE PICK

*** which is actually reasonable, significantly better shot at moving up to the good stuff than in the old days, thanks Adam Silver, we did try, and as per your guidance, we have a shot at being rewarded for that effort, fuck thee who play to lose

Maybe it's English, not math, you m'fer's don't understand. Do we need a crash course on "probably/probable"?

LMAO

The dream of LaMelo has died.     Sad.



(unless Leon can orchestrate something)
Title: Re: the final final final final word for you can't count motherf'ers
Post by: lesterluv on March 12, 2020, 10:53:57 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 12, 2020, 10:47:45 AM


The dream of LaMelo has died.     Sad.



(unless Leon can orchestrate something)

Not in the least. That's what I'm saying. The dream is pretty much EXACTLY what it has been throughout the season.

Assuming he's #1, 5% diff from the depth of the depth of Fukwhale's stinky stew..

*** and I give up.

** really

****** really, really, really, really, really
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 12, 2020, 10:57:34 AM
Mostly because measures are in place to prevent the spread.
Isolation, quarantines, lockdowns and public health precautions.

There could have been an Italy/Iran outbreak in any province in China.  There wasn't.  Because China mobilized.  Rapidly ramping up its health care capacity and taking extreme precautions.  A nearby hospital in Shanghai where I have a number of doctor friends sent 350 medical workers to Wuhan to help deal with the epidemic.  Due to the need for isolation of those infected, it turned out nurses, test kits and protective gear were needed more than doctors.

Btw, most provinces in China are of the size and population of a large Euro country (France/Germany/UK).
And there have been cases of people either getting reinfected or dismissed before they were cured and later testing positive.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 12, 2020, 10:59:05 AM
Yup, it was always very unlikely, unless we actively tanked.  Just like Zion was extremely unlikely last year, yet many Knick fans thought otherwise.
Title: Re: the final final final final word for you can't count motherf'ers
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 12, 2020, 11:03:07 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on March 12, 2020, 10:53:57 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 12, 2020, 10:47:45 AM


The dream of LaMelo has died.     Sad.



(unless Leon can orchestrate something)

Not in the least. That's what I'm saying. The dream is pretty much EXACTLY what it has been throughout the season.

Assuming he's #1, 5% diff from the depth of the depth of Fukwhale's stew..

*** and I give up.

** really

****** really, really, really, really, really

What WERE the odds of Knicks selecting top 3 when we were 3rd


vs where we are now (is it seventh)?


Easy to see us finagling something for LaMelo either by directly picking him or dealing up - if we landed top 3.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 12, 2020, 11:04:11 AM
By the way -

Monica McNutt - who knew?


Played at Georgetown about 8-10 years back -

excellent addition to MSG.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 12, 2020, 11:34:03 AM
ATL started the year 6-19 while Collins was suspended.
Then struggled to 8-32 while Collins got back in shape/rhythm.
Cam Reddish was a huge disaster during the first 2 months as well.

Since Jan 15, Hawks have gone 12-15.
And this is without Capela.
Collins has got back to his old ways.
Reddish has gotten much better.

If the season is kaput, it robs ATl of 15 more games of useful experience for their yute.  4 of their 5 starters are 21, 21, 22, 22.
Capela will make a difference.  Add in a Top 7 pick.
Secure another defender for the bench.
They should be a playoff team next year.
Though the Nets should be if Kyrie and KD shed their gimpiness.
So ATL will fight with ORL and CHA for 8th seed.

ATL is a team on the rise.
Will take youth a few years, but good things in store.
And they will pay and retain Collins.

ATL beat LAC, IND, DEN, MIA & DAL. 
Also took IND to OT and lost by one.  Lost to MIA in OT.
Dropped 152 on WAS.

Their main issue was D, and Capela will help with that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 12, 2020, 11:48:28 AM
We shall see

I did have the OVER for Hawks this year ( a losing prop after the Collins news)

Another team that will be looking for a coach as well (NETS threw us a major curveball by jettisoning Atkinson).  The best available will have choices between Knicks and other locales.
Title: Re: The Smug Moron Award....The Envelope Please
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 12, 2020, 11:56:12 AM
Quote from: chipstern on March 11, 2020, 09:10:44 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 11, 2020, 07:11:30 PM
Trae is a generational talent.


As is Anthony Davis

Get the drift - or is it way over yer noggin?

AND THE WEINER IS....

Kiid.

Dear tube steak.

Davis played SEVEN seasons for the Pelicans before he leveraged a trade.  And was on the tail end of his first big extension.

Trae is completing his second season on his rookie deal.

Too subtle a distinction?

My bad.

When did I say they were trading him now?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 12, 2020, 12:01:43 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 12, 2020, 06:23:25 AM
I'd assume the NBA season is done and we'll be lucky if we get any playoffs.
The US gov't and the people are going to have to rapidly change their behavior to head off the virus.  It still could be contained, but is on the verge of busting out like mad throughout the US.  I don't have much faith.  Wouldn't be surprised to see the US place into 2nd most cases behind China, with a few states becoming like Italy.  So far too much has been reactive, when they could have looked at China and Taiwan and Italy and seen what works and what doesn't, and implemented serious measures before the spread.

Get masks available to all who want them.  Encourage their use.  Limit large public gatherings.  Space people out where possible.  Increase availability of test kits dramatically.  Train doctors and nurses how to use protective gear and handle patients.  Have back up nurse trainees and paramedics ready to help out.

Have emergency plans for temporary isolation wards.  China just shut the last of over a dozen public buildings -- schools and arenas -- used as temp isolation areas for those who tested in Wuhan.  They just set up cubicles with beds and presumably didn't let people go anywhere until they tested negative.  China also built two temp hospitals in about 10 days.  And has requisitioned some hotels for patients.  If the number of cases explodes, there won't be enough hospital space to isolate patients, and won't be enough nurses to care for them, especially if nurses get sick too.

Get more people working from home.  Encourage limited travel, both personal and business.   Face masks and spacing people out in public.  Maybe providing hand sanitizer stations in busy public places like train stations, airports, malls.  Gloves aren't a bad idea in affected areas.  Precautions are good.  Epidemic viruses spreading rapidly are bad.

Thanks for recommending the plan that is already pretty much in place

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 12, 2020, 12:03:52 PM
There's not one Knick I think is an essential keeper.


heh

I think you will be quite disapponted in next year's roster then

Bo - "if you build it then burn it, they will come" - didley
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 12, 2020, 01:16:22 PM
How much of that is actually happening in the US?
They should go to near-Italy measures BEFORE the virus infects 10K or more and there are serious outbreaks all over. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 12, 2020, 01:55:49 PM
How much of that is actually happening in the US?


As much as is currently possible
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 12, 2020, 03:09:36 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 12, 2020, 09:24:39 AM
How good arfe we if we keep everyone - if Harkless will stay on - and just add the 2/3 picks?

Is that doable financially? - I am talking keeping Bobby and Taj and Elfrid and Mo

Please dont come back with "YES, if we trade Randle"

How can anyone know the financials now?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 12, 2020, 04:26:38 PM
Quote from: Kam on March 12, 2020, 03:09:36 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 12, 2020, 09:24:39 AM
How good arfe we if we keep everyone - if Harkless will stay on - and just add the 2/3 picks?

Is that doable financially? - I am talking keeping Bobby and Taj and Elfrid and Mo

Please dont come back with "YES, if we trade Randle"

How can anyone know the financials now?

Based on the CBA, the fact that kid’s proposal is comprised of honoring existing contracts, signing draft picks, and exercising bird rights means we can afford it whether it exceeds the new cap or not.  If revenues fall enough I expect there will be some negotiation between the teams and union to keep the cap close to or in-line with this year’s. Otherwise it screws players and front offices.

I don’t hate the idea of starting the season off with Taj, Randle, Portis, a Rookie forward, and Knox available to play power forward. Even having Wooten in the mix through camp.

Reggie is a great contract, and Payton is good value as well.

If people want to talk, they need to be making it sweet because simple continuity and natural growth look pretty good right now.   
Title: Question is; Does anyone miss Morris
Post by: Kam on March 12, 2020, 04:37:47 PM
Anyone want him back?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 12, 2020, 05:46:56 PM
No talent Harkless had a terrific 1st half v ATL.

Collins reminds me of Karl Malone.

Title: Re: the final final final final word for you can't count motherf'ers
Post by: lesterluv on March 12, 2020, 07:47:38 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 12, 2020, 11:03:07 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on March 12, 2020, 10:53:57 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 12, 2020, 10:47:45 AM


The dream of LaMelo has died.     Sad.



(unless Leon can orchestrate something)

Not in the least. That's what I'm saying. The dream is pretty much EXACTLY what it has been throughout the season.

Assuming he's #1, 5% diff from the depth of the depth of Fukwhale's stew..

*** and I give up.

** really

****** really, really, really, really, really

What WERE the odds of Knicks selecting top 3 when we were 3rd


vs where we are now (is it seventh)?


Easy to see us finagling something for LaMelo either by directly picking him or dealing up - if we landed top 3.

12 % difference between those vastly different finish positions.

In other words, if two teams draft in those respective spots 10 years in a row. The 7 team should expect to lose 1 lamelo they would have gotten at the higher spot over the course of a decade.

Or maybe 1 lamelo and 1 lamelo up to the thigh.

In other words, if you were dreaming of a Lamelo at 3 and were convinced you lost your Lamelo at 7 you are either a Beavis or a Butthead.


*** Woulda been damn hard to stay at 3 after firing Fiz. Maybe if Miller had continued to allow Julius to go coast-to-coast 12 times a game. Add in start Djr., actually, that might have done the trick.
Title: Re: The Smug Moron Award....The Envelope Please
Post by: chipstern on March 12, 2020, 10:16:38 PM
b
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 12, 2020, 11:56:12 AM
Quote from: chipstern on March 11, 2020, 09:10:44 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 11, 2020, 07:11:30 PM
Trae is a generational talent.


As is Anthony Davis

Get the drift - or is it way over yer noggin?

AND THE WEINER IS....

Kiid.

Dear tube steak.

Davis played SEVEN seasons for the Pelicans before he leveraged a trade.  And was on the tail end of his first big extension.

Trae is completing his second season on his rookie deal.

Too subtle a distinction?

My bad.

When did I say they were trading him now?

God you're an asshole. 

Self Quarantine
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 13, 2020, 12:35:52 AM
I think you had best go back to the beginning - read what I posted.

Its fine if you think ATL will "contend" prior to their having to pay Trae Young Chris Paul money

It should also be fine that I am skeptical of it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 13, 2020, 01:45:34 AM
Pretty simple: You pay Trae & Collins what you need to.
Talented young players.  And they sell tickets, once that starts occurring again.

Hunter, Huerter and Reddish all look solid.  Just need one of them to Pop.
 Top 8 pick a-coming.  Capela will make a difference.  Bring Teague back at a reasonable rate.

Is there a better more interesting young team out there?

PELS:  Zion, Ingram, Ballzo, Jaxson Hayes
DAL:   Luka, KZ, Funky-Smith, Brunson
ATL:   Trae, Collins, Hunter, Huerter, Reddish
PHI:   Simmons, Embiid, Thybull, Shake Milty
MIN:  KAT, Tangelo, Culver, Okogie
PHX:   Booker, Ayton, Bridges
GRiZ:  Ja, Brooks, Jackson, [Clark]

Well, there you go, I did the work for you. 
As far as I can tell, those are the 7 youth core teams.
A quick ranking.

BOS has Tatum & Jaylen, but robert Willaims would be thier 3rd pup, so they are relying on a mix of vets and yute.  SMart s already 26 and a young vet.  Theis coming up on 28.
SAC has Fox & Bogdanx2. But Hield's already 27.




Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 13, 2020, 04:20:31 AM
You’re shorting Memphis Clark, who is like a Matrix 2.0

How old are Siakam and VanFleet? Og is pretty young, so I’d count them in.

With the right draft and Mitch, Frank, and RJ showing us their better angels, We’re not that far off from having a young core ourselves.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 13, 2020, 08:20:31 AM
Hunter, Huerter and Reddish could be JAPs.  (just another player).

Like I said, we will see. 

The three star route is short a couple.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 13, 2020, 08:29:35 AM
Magic -  Fultz, Bomba, Isaac

Denver -    Murray, Porter, Bol

Thunder -  Shae, Ferguson, Diallo, Bazley

Knicks -   Frank, KK, RJ, Mitch



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 13, 2020, 08:42:51 AM
Cavs -  Garland, Sexton, Cedi, Zizic

Nets -   Allen, Kurucs, Musa, Chiozza, Pinson

Wiz -   Hachimura, Wagner, Bryant, Schofield, Robinson, Brown

Bulls -    Coby, Markaanen, Carter, Gafford, Hutchison

Blazers -   Simons, Trent, Little, Collins
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 13, 2020, 08:52:15 AM
I did that fairly quickly.
Might have missed some yute, especially injured guys.
Added in Clark, who looked good the little I saw him (parts of 2 games).

Hunter looks good to me.  Nice defender.  A solid 3&D wing as advertised.
I'd take him over RJB. 

25 was my somewhat arbitrary cutoff.
Embiid turns 26 next week.  Siakim 26 in 3 weeks. FVV & Normal Powell are 26.

Not that 26 is old, it just goes into the young vet category, and I was focused more on genuine yute.  So by definition, many of these young guys are unformed and their potential outweighs their present.

Vince at 43 is more than twice as old as 3 Hawks.  And could have fathered everyone on the roster except Teague and Dedman.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 13, 2020, 08:56:57 AM
Hornets -    Monk, Bridges, Washington, McDaniels

Detroit -    Wood, Maker, Douyamba, Brown, Svi

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 13, 2020, 09:04:17 AM
Every team has some yute.
I think I caught the 7 best 25 and under teams.

If you rank all the teams under-25 talent, the Knix unlikely to make the Top 10 and probably closer to 15 -- middle of the pack.  Which is sad given all the losing we've done.  Mitch and RJB have fairly good potential, if both showing limitations.  Knox, Franc hopefully will get it in another year or two or three.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 13, 2020, 09:19:17 AM
Thats the point.  Every team has building blocks.

Sometimes you just don't know.  Players develop at different paces.

I put CHI on your list, surely.    ORL as well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 13, 2020, 09:29:45 AM
Define building blocks.

I think we use the term differently.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 13, 2020, 01:25:45 PM
Use baseball's model as a way to rank prospects.

AAA  Mitch,  RJ
AA    Frank
A      Knox


Now apply to other teams.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 13, 2020, 03:10:45 PM
What was Siakam 2 years ago?  You have to include all possible "pops" as Bo would say.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 14, 2020, 02:16:23 AM
2 years ago Siakim was part of the best bench in the League along with FVV.  A bit raw on O, but developing a power spin move, and becoming a long-armed force on D.  He definitely projected as a next year starter and guy to watch.  But he's really improved on 3's and also his handle, making him an all-around threat on O. 

But I know what you mean.

I think of it as 1/3 what the yute is now, 1/3 potential, and 1/3 where they could project in 3-5 years.  With variance for age.  A 21 year old has more unfilled potential than a 24 year old.  But development proceeds at different rates.  Bodies fill out faster or slower.  Mentally things click faster for some than others.  Some guys are hungrier and work harder. 

I always think that's tough for fans to know much about.  Who works hard and has a good attitude?  Who parties a lot, has distractions and coasts? 
Work ethic and outside life are not something fans know much about.

And even that doesn't necessarily tell you enough.  Lou Williams apparently stopped hanging around young players years ago, as he likes to enjoy his off time and didn't want to be a bad influence.  Maybe that helps explain his D, but he's a deadly scorer and 4Q assassin.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 14, 2020, 10:41:47 AM
Sirrius NBA Radio Saturday morning show (I think it's Hahn) -

Discussing NBA maybe just going straight to playoffs upon return.

Mimicking a Knick (or other bad team) fan:  "I've seen 65 games of this team - that's enough"

heh

- Of course there are still races to decide - would the teams currently 9-12 be seriously offended?  Would they have to agree to it?

Venues may also be a problem - which ones are already booked - should the playoffs run at different times than initially thought (thus lending credence to the theory that reg season games would not be rescheduled)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 14, 2020, 10:58:16 AM
Not what they intend, but I've been assuming these will be the final stats and standings and the reg season is kaput.  Really, I think they'll be lucky if they get the playoffs in at all.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 14, 2020, 11:23:45 AM
Sucks for Pelicans - they were taking that 8th slot in the West.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 14, 2020, 05:22:58 PM
Very slim chance they would have been able to catch Memphis. Pels could have passed Portland for 9th though, so there’s that.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 14, 2020, 06:06:09 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 14, 2020, 05:22:58 PM
Very slim chance they would have been able to catch Memphis. Pels could have passed Portland for 9th though, so there’s that.

Heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 14, 2020, 07:08:43 PM
Assuming a draft occurs at some point & we keep our picks

Lotto: Obi Toppin 6’9” 225 Dayton Sophomore
Late First: Killian Tille 6’10” 220 Gonzaga Senior
Second: Malachi Flynn 6’1” 185 SDSU Junior

A hyperathletic scorer and two basketball savants with serious shooting range. No babies, all ready to play.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 14, 2020, 08:32:35 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 14, 2020, 07:08:43 PM
Assuming a draft occurs at some point & we keep our picks

Lotto: Obi Toppin 6’9” 225 Dayton Sophomore
Late First: Killian Tille 6’10” 220 Gonzaga Senior
Second: Malachi Flynn 6’1” 185 SDSU Junior

A hyperathletic scorer and two basketball savants with serious shooting range. No babies, all ready to play.

Pretty good job
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 14, 2020, 11:36:03 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on March 14, 2020, 06:06:09 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 14, 2020, 05:22:58 PM
Very slim chance they would have been able to catch Memphis. Pels could have passed Portland for 9th though, so there’s that.

Heh

I'm guessing — should they be able to do playoffs — that they might widen it out to 9-12.

A larger pool. A play-in. Something like that.

Silver would want the most games. Spread the wealth. Give something to the fans of each franchise. They were playing with the idea of a mid-season tournament anyway.  Could give it a trial run.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 15, 2020, 12:50:52 AM
I was thinking the opposite: that they might be reduced to a compressed playoffs, with just 4 or 6 teams per conference.  3 current playoff teams have losing records anyway.  And this way they'd be able to get fewer games in a fewer cities into a compressed schedule.  Another option, if they go with the full contingent of 16, is to have 1st (and maybe 2nd) round series be bets of 3, like back in the bad old days.  If they got started late and had a compressed schedule.  Really the NBA can push things back into July and even August if need be.

But my money is on no playoffs (60/40 in my book).

Now what would be fun is if the NBA decreed that only teams with winning records make the playoffs.  And they fill out the remaining slots -- three in the case of this season -- with a lottery system.  So the 21 W Knix might have a 5% or whatever chance of getting a playoff slot in a random drawing.  Hell, maybe every team with a losing record, around 15 or 16 most years, get an even chance in the playoff lottery (6% - 7% per opening). 

The catch is that any team hitting the playoff lottery gets reseeded for the draft as a playoff team, and is out of the draft lottery.   So a cruddy team such as Los Knickeroos, could get in to the playoffs this year via a playoff lottery, and it would bump their draft position to mid 1st round, somewhere around 15-17.  This might put a damper on tanking and a premium on have a winning record (.500 or better).

A little kooky, but you can bet those teams in the 7/8 slot below .500 will be playing hard.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on March 16, 2020, 12:29:15 PM
Did the knix really trade away their best player for mo? A warm body? Glad I do not get to see more of him, the bright side.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 16, 2020, 02:04:09 PM
He’ll be back next year and be somewhere in our top 8 players. Figure 20-25 mins a night.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 16, 2020, 07:45:21 PM
Did the knix really trade away their best player for mo? A warm body?


No.  You were told this earlier.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 17, 2020, 03:50:23 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 16, 2020, 07:45:21 PM
Did the knix really trade away their best player for mo? A warm body?

No.  You were told this earlier.

"Shut up," my father explained.

Quote from: facilitatorn on March 16, 2020, 02:04:09 PM
He’ll be back next year and be somewhere in our top 8 players. Figure 20-25 mins a night.

Why on earth would he re-sign with a poor team?  Just so he can jack as many shots as he wants ...

In 12 games with the Clips, MaMo shot poorly.  Just 28% on 3's, which were more than half of his shots, dragging his overall FG% down to 38%.  Mo Hark's LAC #'s were 51% FG and 37% on 3's (on few attempts), with more versatile D.  Both played better on their initial teams. 

The trade likely hurt Morris' value, but I'd expect him to find a good fit and good money.  If he had finished the year with NYK, there's some chance he would have re-signed, but now I think that ship has sailed.  The Morris twins might try to stick together, as they're tight.  Mostly just bad teams will have cap space.  Minny would be a good fit, with KAT, Tangelo, Culver, Okogie -- they could be posed for a quick turnaround.  Well, if guys commit to D and passing.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 17, 2020, 02:03:18 PM
I don’t think Morris is likely to return to the Knicks. Harkless I think is likely to make a return.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 17, 2020, 03:00:35 PM
Oh, I misread you.  The Top 8 part should have tipped me off.

I think Mohawk is the type of player that helps a team, because he doesn't need the ball, does small things like screens and defense.  Wish he was more consistent, but he's a useful player.  Probably better on a team that is more coherent.  Hopefully we can keep him at a reasonable rate.  Seems he wants to stay in NYC.

I guess the next issue is who will be the new coach.  I'll plant my flag with Atkinson, if that analogy makes any sense.  I'm never good at knowing what coaches fit which teams, or knowing coaching strategies and approaches that well.  Atkinson seems to focus on defense and detail, be good at young player development, and has worked in NY.  These all sound good to me.
As usual, we are mostly starting over.

I really think there should be a website that scouts all NBA players, breaking down their strengths and weaknesses.  They could also have a coach section, detailing approaches, and strengths and weaknesses as well.  Lotta sports writers doing nothing.  Now would be a good time to get it underway.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 17, 2020, 03:00:47 PM
1 - hasnt played well with LAC cast
2 - wont make Finals, maybe not even West Finals
3 - expressed his love for NY and willingness to return
4 - loved his role in NY
5 - money

reasons to not return

- prefers being above .500
- Knicks hire wrong coach
- cant live any longer without bro by side
- Knicks move on (Leon looking at other shiny pennies)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 17, 2020, 03:02:27 PM
Do I care either way?  No.  MM didnt last the year playing effectively and only gets older.  And he'd demand a year more than we want to give - be a drain at back end of the deal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 17, 2020, 03:18:41 PM
I assume we both move on.

But MaMo did play his ass off in NY, was fun to watch and one of the better parts of the NYK season.  I enjoyed having him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 17, 2020, 06:26:26 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 17, 2020, 03:18:41 PM
I assume we both move on.

But MaMo did play his ass off in NY, was fun to watch and one of the better parts of the NYK season.  I enjoyed having him.

Yup yup.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 17, 2020, 07:33:47 PM
I'll pass on Atkinson.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 17, 2020, 08:12:38 PM
Let's see, he got fired 12 days ago, maybe in the nick of time to avoid catching the RONA
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 18, 2020, 03:10:24 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 17, 2020, 07:33:47 PM
I'll pass on Atkinson.

Why?
Who do you prefer?

Atkinson got a bunch of yute and no-names to play yard and develop, and the team to pull together.  Worked great until they brought in the gimpy prima donnas.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 18, 2020, 10:18:49 AM
Why?
Who do you prefer?


Many.

We have time for that.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 18, 2020, 10:19:56 AM
By the way, congrats to RICK PITINO on his return stateside - his appointment at Iona.

Still one of the very best.  Gaels have a new fan.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 18, 2020, 10:27:24 AM
Atkinson got a bunch of yute and no-names to play yard and develop, and the team to pull together.  Worked great until they brought in the gimpy prima donnas.


Vets played a good amount of minutes.

And he had a star in Russell.

Minus that star he went back to -6 in W-L
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 18, 2020, 11:13:00 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 18, 2020, 10:27:24 AM
Atkinson got a bunch of yute and no-names to play yard and develop, and the team to pull together.  Worked great until they brought in the gimpy prima donnas.

Vets played a good amount of minutes.

DeMarre came off the bench for 25 mins per.  Ed Davis was a bench guy for 18 mins a night.  just 9 starts between them.  Dudley 20 mins, started 25 of 59 games he played.  Crabbe started 20 of 43 games he played.

So all of their vets totaled just 54 starts.  And I assume some of those starts overlapped, so more than half of their games were likely played without one vet starting.

Though I'm not sure I see the point anyway.  Knix have some vets.  Randle is a starter, and role players Elf and Bullock probably will be back.  And they will be in the rotation, similar to what Atkinson had with BKY. 

Quote
And he had a star in Russell.

Well, Tangelo became a star, if that's what he is, in BKY under Atkinson. That's where he became a 20 Pt scorer and started shooting above average on his 3's.

Quote
Minus that star he went back to -6 in W-L

Kyrie, Tangelo's replacement, managed only 20 games and was partially dinged up for even some of that score. 

LaVert missed nearly two months, and then had a very rough January while he worked himself back into shape/rhythm.   Since LaVert got his mojo back, the Nets were 12-8 from Feb 1st til the season was called.  Two of those were OT losses to BOS & PHI, plus a 1 point loss @TOR, while beating TOR, IND and LAL.
LaVert was pretty terrific in that 20 game stretch, shooting over 40% on 3's and averaging around 23 / 5 / 5.

Injuries aren't the coaches fault.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 18, 2020, 12:08:07 PM
Russell had a usage uptick year 2 under Kenny, which is not uncommon for a 22 year old in his 4th season.

No - I dont think he got "better".  Was the 2nd overall pick for good reason.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 18, 2020, 02:24:42 PM
Got traded a three times for a reason too ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 18, 2020, 04:36:27 PM
It looks like we’re thinking about Atkinson because he did in Brooklyn the things Miller was starting to get done in NY. I’d rather keep Miller. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 18, 2020, 05:00:16 PM
I dont count a sign and trade as a trade

And the GS-Minny deal (GS dealing him for a more balanced piece) was planned from the getgo.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 19, 2020, 12:14:34 AM
http://www.si.com/nba/knicks/news/knicks-ignas-brazdeikis (http://www.si.com/nba/knicks/news/knicks-ignas-brazdeikis)
Title: Tangelo
Post by: bodiddley on March 19, 2020, 04:09:17 AM
4 teams in 5 seasons for a reason.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 19, 2020, 08:24:24 AM
I agree
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 19, 2020, 04:52:45 PM
Well, the voluntary lockdown in Shanghai is easing up after 7+ weeks, and I started hearing rumors that gyms and parks were reopening for basketball.  I went to the one local outdoor park, and not only was it open, but full normal hours, with lights going on at night and staying open til 9:PM.  So I got 3 hours of pretty mediocre hoops in.

I gained 5 pounds per week the first 3 weeks of the lockdown, and with limited exercise options I only lost 5 pounds the last few weeks.  Basketball should get me back down to playing weight.  Nearly a 2 month layoff.  Last time I played I think was Jan 23.  Now just have to see if/when my regular games and regular gyms are running again.

But there is light (and hoops) at the end of the lockdowns. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 19, 2020, 11:33:49 PM
You're a lucky man, Bo, we're just starting out here.

Me & a couple friends had planned to celebrate spring with some half-court out on Brooklyn Bridge Park's basketball pier. We'll have to wait til summer it appears.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 20, 2020, 01:41:35 AM
I hadn't thought of it, but you're right.  I was lucky the main lockdown was during the end of January, cold rainy February and early March.  And just as Spring popped up (really last week) the easing period kicked in.  Though the last 10 years I've predominantly played indoors.

But I always enjoy playing outside in the open air, with trees edging the court, a moon, maybe a couple bats swooping nearby, the big buildings of the city all around.   I never really understood why the NBA season slogged through the Winter, exactly when as a kid I couldn't play, and then ended in April just when you start going out and hooping.  I always assumed it was in deference to the baseball season, which used to be dominant.  But it always seemed oddly mistimed.

Just found out my main gym opened last night (or got approval to open  yesterday).  So hopefully my weekly games will be back on.  Some guys I occasionally play with usually play at the medical school gym, and universities remain closed.  So for last night they switched to play at a nice gym where I have a weekly game.  I messaged them about joining since they needed people, and the guy in charge contacted the gym who said they weren't admitting foreigners!  Take that Donald Trump!

When I went to the park to play last night, I actually stashed my passport into my basketball bag so I could prove that I'd been in China for the last 16 days.  I even put up the hood on jacket so the guards wouldn't easily see I was a foreigner, just in case.  But the two guards were right there at the entrance, and then it took me a long time to get the stupid app working to be able to read the QR code and access the automatic turnstile entrance.  Seemed a problem with the wifi on my phone.  So my quick incognito entrance turned out me standing there for over 5 minutes trying to get my phone to cooperate.

The guards were under no orders to ban foreigners.  Nobody who played acted worried or surprised that I might be Milanese or New Rochellian.  Hoops wasn't very crowded.  There were a handful of guys who played with masks on.  In one game a masked guy guarded me, which was considerate ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 23, 2020, 07:28:49 AM
The China CBA is slated to resume April 15.  There plan to play all games in just two cities, putting half the league in one city, the other half in another.  No fans.  So far about 8 Americans have returned or plan to return to China to play.  They have to be quarantined for 14 days upon arrival in China.

Since most live in 4 or 5 star hotels, I wonder how thorough their quarantine will be.  It's not like they'll have an armed guard outside their door.  Will they hit the hotel gym or pool or restaurant after a few days?  The incubation period averages 5.5 days according to research I saw a couple weeks ago.  So it might make sense to have a total isolation quarantine for 7 days and then relax it somewhat the second week.  Allow them within the hotel but must wear a mask and keep distance form others as much as possible.  Probably should still do all meals in room.

I'm surprised so many are willing to go through with that.  Although it's not to get paid, and the virus has largely subsided (for now) in China but is raging in the US.  So China likely safer, and you can easily obtain masks.  And everyone in public wears a mask to protect everyone else.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 23, 2020, 07:41:52 AM
So who do we like in the draft?
There's 5 PG's listed for the lottery.

LaMelo Ball
Cole Anthony
Nico Mannion
Theo Maledon
Ty Haliburton

Thoughts on these guys?
We certainly need shooting and passing.
Cole Anthony?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 23, 2020, 09:26:01 AM
Anthony is quite electric.  Has some T Young in him.

I have also seen Mannion - more of a steady, directing presence - but his dad says Nico isn't entering.

Was thrilled that we would get to see Ball in the D League....  but maybe not.

I really like the bigs Carey and Achiuwa.  Never got to see James Wiseman.

Right now BALL is my pick if available, though I would look at a trade down.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 23, 2020, 09:54:53 AM
This site has some new names and different ramks than nbadraft.net


http://www.nbadraftroom.com/p/2020-nba-mock-draft.html


And Tankathon has the updated order


http://www.tankathon.com/full_draft

Seems just Charlotte (8 and 32 for the 6) and Sacramento (12 and 35) would be worth looking at to deal.  But we may not want to add 4 rookies (already have 3 picks in top 38).

Any deal might be pick plus player for the 6.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 23, 2020, 10:37:10 AM
Seems you need to hit the lottery and get a Top 3, likely Top 2, pick to get Ball.

Carey sounds like Randle. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 23, 2020, 10:43:08 AM
Doesnt play so much on the perimeter, though "stepping out" is surely part of his game.  As an offensive board guy you may be correct.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 23, 2020, 10:43:57 AM
Seems you need to hit the lottery and get a Top 3, likely Top 2, pick to get Ball.


Good point

Would we trade UP?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 23, 2020, 10:45:28 AM
When have we traded up/down and been wrong?  Might need some analysis

Takes balls either way, no pun intended

Leon Rose, this is YOUR Knicks year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 23, 2020, 08:57:12 PM
In the top 4, we should grab the highest rated guy left on our board regardless of position.

In the 7-8 spot, with as many strong guard prospects as there are and a sizable drop off from the top 3 (Edwards, Ball, Hayes - all of which will be gone) to the next 7 or 8, I’d look for a big here and try for a guard with one of the later two. I’d hope one of Wiseman, Okongwu, or Toppin falls.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 23, 2020, 11:10:26 PM
Look closely at Carey.  And consider the Israeli kid.  Luka-lite.

I think we can get a couple good players with our second and third picks - or use them with young players to move up in the draft.

Look at juniors and seniors.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 24, 2020, 12:55:54 AM
I forgot about Deni, the other guy in my top seven.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 24, 2020, 03:21:29 PM
What about Haliburton?
Looks poised and hit his 3's even if his release looks sort of Lonzo Ballish.
Seems to play with energy (or has energy on his highlights).

He could drop into our range because of his wrist injury, which likely wouldn't be an issue.

I don't know these young guys, so i'm just tossing out ideas.
We really could use a dynamic G and/or someone who can shoot.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 24, 2020, 03:39:07 PM
I worry about how Haliburton will hold up to an NBA pounding. If he weighs out at 180 - 185, showing he can add muscle, he’s a top 3 or 4 guard in this draft. At 170-175 I think it will be a problem for him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 25, 2020, 06:35:53 AM
Here's a mock draft from 3 weeks ago ... when the NCAA season was still ongoing.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2878780-2020-nba-mock-draft-updated-projections-for-most-coveted-prospects#slide0
I like that he gives extended write-ups on the players.

Has Wiseman sliding down to 6th, believing teams are reluctant to draft C's up high these days, and a few of the losingest teams don't need a C -- CLE has Bulldog Drummond; ATL with Capela; MINI KAT. 

Of course the draft order isn't set yet.

GSW could take Wiseman, or go for more scoring and look to pick up a vet C cheap.
Either way could work for them. 

Has Knix taking Cole Anthony @ #5.

Says this about Haliburton:
Quote
passing IQ, catch-and-shoot ability and versatility playing on and off the ball.  Teams will be hoping to see Haliburton recover in time to work out so they can get a closer look at his jumper's unorthodox mechanics.

I saw him shoot a trio of treys on a highlight reel and noticed that weird form.  Reminded me of ... BallZo.  Made them at a good rate, gets nice elevation and balance, but that release is odd.

KNIX
Has a rather too easy path for the Knix to get Mellow Ball:
Quote
With Ball and Russell, Minnesota would have two creative ball-handlers and passers, both of whom are at least 6'5".
Minnesota could also look to trade down with a team like the New York Knicks, who'd likely be willing to give up the No. 5 pick and defensive stopper Frank Ntilikina for a chance to draft Ball.

If only it were so easy.
I assume NYK would gladly dump Franc to get a big talented PG in Ball.
He really should make a case who TWolfs would pick if they dropped down from 3rd to 5th.  Because that's really the issue, as Franc is of minor help.  Toppin, Okongwu, Carey?

Otherwise, he has Mannion dropping to 21.
Carey down at 30.
RJ Hampton at 4
Killian Hayes up at 7.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 25, 2020, 08:46:59 AM
I think the Knicks are all in on Frank

New Leon in town but not sure we are trading the kid.

Minnesota would be horrible for him.

Thanks for the mock.  I am fine with Anthony and like Carey, Achiuwa.  Look at the Israeli kid.

edit:   shit - they have him going #2?

(The Auburn kid looks like Frank in profile (not sure if offense will come but D and intangibles, blah........)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 25, 2020, 10:31:23 AM
Franc is still without a position and a starting slot.
An enigma.  I think Knix would be glad to consolidate #5 and Franc for #3.

For Minny the idea is their D is poor.  So an extra defender helps.  Let Franc, Covington and Okogie/Culver defend while Tangelo and KAT score.  I doubt they covet Franc enough to alter their draft slot.

There's concern Cole Anthony isn't really a PG.  Hmm.
Ball or Haliburton sound like what we need.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 25, 2020, 11:32:40 AM
An enigma.  I think Knix would be glad to consolidate #5 and Franc for #3.


Maybe.  I wont worry about that just yet.  Unless the team with the 3 (is it Minny in this model) sees a player they like and know they can get at 5, it wont matter.

Sure - absolutely - if LEON sees BALL as his guy - and we have a chance to get him by dealing up........count me in.  I'd think we would need to surrender picks though. At least one of our future 1s that looks to be better than our second #1 for 2020.

I also see LEON adding players in deal - not just picking and amassing picks.  Some guys who are NOT free agents and are on other rosters will be Knickerbockers for 20-21.
Title: EASTER???
Post by: carlos123 on March 25, 2020, 02:13:25 PM
Chico, you just as crazy as your führer
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 25, 2020, 02:45:47 PM
14. Portland Trail Blazers: Precious Achiuwa (Memphis, PF/C, Freshman)



Achiuwa made his strongest statement of the season on Saturday during a 22-point, 22-rebound, five-block effort against Tulane.

Even without a great deal of skill, he continues to impact games by maximizing his 6'9", 225-pound frame, 7'2" wingspan, mobility and motor for rim-runs, finishes, second-chance opportunities and defensive playmaking. Achiuwa's jump shot and decision-making still require significant improvement, but few bigs in the draft have a more impressive physical foundation to build off
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 25, 2020, 02:56:02 PM
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2878780-2020-nba-mock-draft-updated-projections-for-most-coveted-prospects#slide13

Tre Jones at 26 made me smile

But if Celtics ever got Carey at 30...

Good Lord.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 25, 2020, 11:56:43 PM
Okongwu also sounds interesting as a high energy defender who can score around the rim.  Like a Bam or Montrezl type.

I'm hoping the Bigs go early -- Wiseman, Toppin, whoever -- so the Knix have the widest selection of G's available -- Ball, Haliburton, Anthony, Kill Hayes, or even the Israeli SF.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 26, 2020, 01:47:55 AM
Feeling the opposite almost. Hoping the guards and Wiseman go early and we get a look at Toppin, Okongwu, and Advija.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 26, 2020, 11:00:15 AM
Maybe Edwards falls - with Ball and Devi going 1-2 or 2-1.  The white kid sure is picking up steam.

Who gets the 2/3 minutes - Barrett, Knox, Edwards, vet wing?  I guess in this NBA it could almost split equal and nobody wold blink.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 26, 2020, 06:06:08 PM
R.I.P. Fred “Curly” Neal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 27, 2020, 07:35:11 PM
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2882603-2020-nba-draftd-c-historical-anurrent-pro-comparisons-for-projected-top-picks#slide12 (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2882603-2020-nba-draftd-c-historical-anurrent-pro-comparisons-for-projected-top-picks#slide12)
Title: Re: EASTER???
Post by: carlos123 on March 27, 2020, 09:47:38 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on March 25, 2020, 02:13:25 PM
Chico, you just as crazy as your führer

Finally you deleted your crazy signature, qué pasó Chico, what happened? 100,000 cases and counting?

Anyway, good that you deleted it. Time to think for yourself?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 28, 2020, 09:39:53 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 27, 2020, 07:35:11 PM
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2882603-2020-nba-draftd-c-historical-anurrent-pro-comparisons-for-projected-top-picks#slide12 (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2882603-2020-nba-draftd-c-historical-anurrent-pro-comparisons-for-projected-top-picks#slide12)

Thx.  I like player comparisons.  Helpful for projection purposes.
I'm still in favor of Ball or Haliburton.
If we don't hit the lotto, maybe we could move up for Ball or down for Haliburton.

I keep hearing some Amare comparison for Toppin.  Amare was an 18 year old with great hops.  Is Toppin really as explosive as a young STAT, or is it just the boarding and defensive cluelessness that gets the Amare comparison.  Cause that's crucial.

I really like John Collins (their other comp for Toppin) but Collins reminds me of a young Karl Malone. Mostly his grace and power around the rim, and good feel on offense.  The Mailman also started off as a weak defender and then improved (I learned my post D ball-swipe from Malone.  When a bigger guy in the post bumps you and knocks you back half a step or just off balance, he has a fairly open rim to shoot at.  So as you're falling back, take a swipe at the ball just above waist level as the guy turns and starts to bring it up.  Works well, especially as they think they have the all-clear.  Best when you can smack the ball into the player's leg/body so it goes out of bounds off them)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on March 28, 2020, 05:19:12 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 23, 2020, 07:41:52 AM
So who do we like in the draft?
There's 5 PG's listed for the lottery.

LaMelo Ball
Cole Anthony
Nico Mannion
Theo Maledon
Ty Haliburton

Thoughts on these guys?
We certainly need shooting and passing.
Cole Anthony?

Ty
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 28, 2020, 05:58:15 PM
LaMelo


Historical comparison: Penny Hardaway/Jason Williams

Picture a bigger Williams with Hardaway's star power. Ball creates and dishes with Williams' flair and confidence, and he has the same type of pull-up three in his bag. But he's closer in size and athleticism to Hardaway, who averaged over 20 points per game during his short prime years. Ball has more scoring upside than Williams, but to reach Penny's level, he'll have to improve his mid-range shot and post offense


Love it - thanks for the link
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 28, 2020, 06:07:52 PM
Fearless forecast


EDWARDS has some LeBron in him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 28, 2020, 09:59:42 PM
Like Sarah Silverman, I'm a Ball man.
After that Ty Haliburton.
From there, uh, maybe Okongwu or the Israeli kid (I've seen neither).
Really we should get a nice player.

What's the lowest spot we could end up with?
9th?  7th and 8th our most likely slot?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 28, 2020, 10:17:55 PM

Knicks say owner Jim Dolan has tested positive for coronavirus and is in self-isolation. He’s experiencing little to no symptoms and continues to oversee business operations.

and since he has little or no symptoms,  he basically stole a test from the health care worker or police officer who needed it..'lil bitch...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 29, 2020, 01:40:12 AM
Bo, if you get the YouTube’s where you’re at, check out Toppin both cause Dayton was really fun this year and I’d like to hear how Toppin does for you vis-a-vis the eye test.

The article was nice to Ball. He has a nice package to build on and if he’s survived Dad, he can probably hand the weeble and wobble of Berman and Dolan and their influence on the life of the team.

I like Deni, Toppin, Okongwu as guys to plug right in. Deni to start as SF on day 1.

I hear beefs about Toppin’s D, some about reaction time (slow hips, high stance a la Amare) more or less offset by smarts and anticipation that lets him get on and off ball blocks and make spectacular passing lane plays. He’ll need to work on his lower body and stance a lot to reach his potential. The more concrete beef is that at 6’9” 220-225, he gets bullied by real size centers. I don’t see us asking him to do that unless he at some point packs on some weight to his core and thighs.

Offensively he’s kind of an Amare-Tatum hybrid on the college level. The guy plays with energy & feel and he gets buckets.

Okongwu is an advanced and mobile player for his size who just needs to get his 3 stroke on to be a solid long term starter. Unlike anyone on our team but Mitch he can rim protect. Unlike Mitch, he can score on the move from a bunch of spots letting him either give a different look at center or form a super defensive interior by playing him with Mitch.

In Deni you’re getting a Multitool SF. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 29, 2020, 08:21:20 AM
I'll try to tune in when I can.
As ridiculous as it sounds, I won't have a working proxy server that gets me to youtube until the new month starts.  China really starting killing my old free proxy server back in October, and I've used other half-ass proxies since then.  I really need to just pay for a more reliable proxy server.

The thing about Amare was he relentlessly put pressure on the rim.  He was going to go over or around folks and try to jam everything.  He was bouncy as hell.
Toppin looks thin in the legs and a little awkward in the still photos I've seen.
Also is 22.  And a poor defender.  If he is equal to John Collins, I'm interested.  But we don't need another bad defender really.

Haven't seen him yet ...

Here's another mock draft, this one from nbc.com:
https://sports.yahoo.com/2020-nba-mock-draft-2-182504378.html
Has medium length write-ups.
Never heard of the writer.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 29, 2020, 12:06:10 PM
Says Edwards shot just 28% from deep

LeBron was at 29% his first NBA season.

Envisioning what a 1-3 of (free agent), Edwards, Barrett would look like.  We could gte good in a hurry.  Of course the model with Ball is similar but I think LaMelo dominates the basketball - and unless he got real good real fast at the NBA level we could struggle out of the chute.

Trade up for EDWARDS, with BALL as second choice.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 29, 2020, 01:02:23 PM
I haven't seen anyone with Edwards as a PG.
You usually pay a real premium to trade up to #1 (it rarely happens),a nd this doesn't seem like the draft to do it in.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 29, 2020, 04:36:40 PM
Edwards and Barrett at the wings wouldn’t be bad at all. Gives Frank some quality scorers to set up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 29, 2020, 05:37:29 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 29, 2020, 08:21:20 AM
I'll try to tune in when I can.
As ridiculous as it sounds, I won't have a working proxy server that gets me to youtube until the new month starts.  China really starting killing my old free proxy server back in October, and I've used other half-ass proxies since then.  I really need to just pay for a more reliable proxy server.

The thing about Amare was he relentlessly put pressure on the rim.  He was going to go over or around folks and try to jam everything.  He was bouncy as hell.
Toppin looks thin in the legs and a little awkward in the still photos I've seen.
Also is 22.  And a poor defender.  If he is equal to John Collins, I'm interested.  But we don't need another bad defender really.

Haven't seen him yet ...

Here's another mock draft, this one from nbc.com:
https://sports.yahoo.com/2020-nba-mock-draft-2-182504378.html
Has medium length write-ups.
Never heard of the writer.

Thanks for the Mock, Bo.

It sounds like Saddiq Bey out of Nova should also be on the radar.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 29, 2020, 06:06:01 PM
I don't see Bey dropping to mid 20s.  But we'll see. Didnt get a chance to see Nova this year.  Can we see him taking Knox's minutes?  I think I'd prefer a point if we took a wing or big early
Title: Stephon!
Post by: carlos123 on March 29, 2020, 10:49:41 PM
Marbury wants to send 10 mil masks to New York. Good for him!!!

Stephon for President!!! ... of MSG
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 29, 2020, 10:55:44 PM
He’s the third or fourth SF, depending on how you see Edwards. I’d say Edwards is a SG so Bey is third behind Deni and the kid from Auburn based on Hype.

It depends on how much teams like guys like RJ Hampton and Ty Halliburton along with some of those 6’10” centers who seem to shoot & put it on the floor somewhat. Bey seems out of the lottery, but gone in the strata between that and our second pick.

Ball & Bey would be a pretty good round 1. If packing the LAC pick with the second rounder gets it done, is that good enough for an entire draft?
Title: Re: Stephon!
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 30, 2020, 01:50:28 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on March 29, 2020, 10:49:41 PM
Marbury wants to send 10 mil masks to New York. Good for him!!!

Stephon for President!!! ... of MSG

Keep us posted if he follows through
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 30, 2020, 02:02:01 PM
Ball & Bey would be a pretty good round 1. If packing the LAC pick with the second rounder gets it done, is that good enough for an entire draft?


Yeah, I would think so - if Bey is the guy they are specifically targeting.  May take future considerations or a player as well.

How much value do Frank and Kevin and Dennis and even Iggy have in deal, I wonder - and where is Leon's mind at with regards to the duo (would he just listen to the current advisors)?

Iggy - the forgotten man - would love to see a Summer League and his progress off these Westchester stats:

20.1  ppg
7.1   rpg
3.0   apg

50/34/60  shooting


24 games

33minutes per


Nice assortment here - dishing and swishing.  Look for the Eurostep to the off right hand  (4th video 24/14 game)

https://stats.gleague.nba.com/player/1629649/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 30, 2020, 02:41:42 PM
Ball or Ty Halibut for the first pick.

Then Bey or Vassell would be nice at #25,
Both are good shooters.  Which is what we need.
Bey might be gone, Vassell seems right in our range (so far).
Good size for an SG.

We could really improve our backcourt if we got Ball/Vassell.
Or Ty/Vassell

Another route could be taking the Israeli all-around wing and then adding Tre Jones or another G with the later pick.
Seems to backfire on us when we take a late round PG (Jerian Grant, Toney D, Frankie the Fly, Mardy Collins)
Title: Re: I like
Post by: Kam on March 30, 2020, 05:10:53 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 20, 2020, 09:12:14 AM
Haliburton

Y'all are finally warming up to my guy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 30, 2020, 05:29:10 PM
I think we are just following NBA hype. 

Do you really think he is a top 5 talent?  Should we be trading up from 7 for him?
Title: Re: I like
Post by: facilitatorn on March 30, 2020, 10:12:06 PM
Quote from: Kam on March 30, 2020, 05:10:53 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 20, 2020, 09:12:14 AM
Haliburton

Y'all are finally warming up to my guy.

Can he strengthen up enough to both avoid injuries and not be pushed off spots? Contact is still part of the game and he’s not so quick that it doesn’t matter for him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 30, 2020, 10:22:30 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 30, 2020, 05:29:10 PM
I think we are just following NBA hype. 

Do you really think he is a top 5 talent?  Should we be trading up from 7 for him?

He will be there at 7
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 30, 2020, 11:22:11 PM
I'd trade up for Ball.
Especially if it just cost Franc, Jr. Smith, or maybe even our 2nd rounder.
We've got iffy yute to spare.  Cash some of that in to get who you wnat and what you need.

In a fairly good G draft, I think it'd be  mistake to go with a Big.  Unless someone really turns our heads.  As in you project an all-star.

And from what i'm hearing Ty Stick sounds better than Cole Anthony who is reportedly sloppy and maybe more of a 2 or combo guard than lead.  and streaky on his shot.  Ty sounds more grounded and has better size if he isn't really a PG, and terrific size if he is.

Caveat: I haven't see these cats in any action yet.

I haven't heard any Ty hype except a little here.
Sounds like one of those guys who goes a little low because of an injury, but since this isn't a leg/knee issue it sounds like a good op to get a talented guy a little lower than his true talent spot.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 31, 2020, 12:17:09 AM
And from what i'm hearing Ty Stick sounds better than Cole Anthony who is reportedly sloppy and maybe more of a 2 or combo guard than lead.  and streaky on his shot.  Ty sounds more grounded and has better size if he isn't really a PG, and terrific size if he is.


You have read from me that Cole Anthony has some Trae Young in him - though bigger.  I wonder if you'd take a Young type to run our team.

We already have Haliburton in Payton, I trust.  Lower ceiling than Cole.

But I am with you on Ball.  Undecided between LB and Edwards.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 31, 2020, 12:28:03 AM
New consensus mock -

https://www.nbadraft.net/nba-mock-drafts/consensus/


Haliburton at 13

Anthony at 4
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 31, 2020, 12:38:04 AM
This one has is taking Anthony over Devi.


https://www.nbadraft.net/nba-mock-drafts/


Also has us passing on both Vassel and Bey with pick 2.

Jay Scrubb is a guy I like as much as that duo - and in the same range
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 31, 2020, 12:39:53 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 31, 2020, 12:17:09 AM
We already have Haliburton in Payton, I trust.  Lower ceiling than Cole.

Ty Stick shot 41% on 3's (with a somewhat funky release).
Elf can't shoot 'em.

Ty can shoot and defend.  Our two primary weaknesses, especially at G.

Concerns about Cole's D and distributing.  So if he can't bomb it in and catch fire like Trae than he could be backup material.  Me no risk it.

Caveat: tomorrow I watch some film of these guys so I know somewhat what I'm talking about.  Scouts give a good amount of info.  And I go with them for now.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 31, 2020, 12:42:11 AM
Will be a good pro - wouldnt mind in round 2


https://www.nbadraft.net/players/markus-howard/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 31, 2020, 12:44:03 AM
There was one mock that had us a picking a Scrubb with the #25 pick.  Made me laugh.

It's like when the Lakers drafted a guy named Chukwudiebere Maduabum in the 2nd round, and I thought: Never draft a guy with "bum" in his name.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 31, 2020, 12:45:17 AM
Cole Anthony a backup?

Please.

Seems Ty is SHY unless its a 3.  Not what I am looking for in a lead guard.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 31, 2020, 12:49:19 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 31, 2020, 12:45:17 AM
Cole Anthony a backup?
Please.

I mean on an actual good team ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 31, 2020, 11:05:59 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 31, 2020, 12:45:17 AM
Cole Anthony a backup?
Please.

Well, if you take Trae Young minus the passing ability and with a more erratic shot, you basically get Coby White (#7 pick last year).  Who started all of 1 game ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 31, 2020, 02:13:48 PM
All 3 are explosive players.  Anthony as highly touted as the other 2.  NYC point guard legends are usually looked at more favorably here - excepting Telfair of course.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 31, 2020, 02:20:55 PM
If we have a top 3 I don't deal up.  Top 4/5 - would surrender one future protected #1 to get to top 3.  If I have 6/7 I trust Leon with dealing the assets or to stay put and pick or even deal down.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 01, 2020, 08:07:31 AM
I don't think dealing up or down is as easy as you seem to think.
And I think it's primarily beneficial when you have a specific target who will be available only a few slots above your position or will still be there later.

If we have the 7th pick and Ty Stick looks to be there at 11, maybe it's worth doing.  But not easy, and no guarantee you get your guy.  I'd probably rather just pick the guy I want rather than potentially get too cute.  I am interested in moving up if not too pricey and if we really like Ball expecting him to our PG of the Future.

But not knowing draft order or more about projected order, it's rather ephemeral speculation for now.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 01, 2020, 10:18:31 AM
Yeah, good post

I agree - dealing within the draft can be tough

No - I don't have Haliburton in mind in a deal down

I would think - if we in a hypothetical have the SEVEN -

and 1-6 goes

Edwards
Ball
Toppin
Avdija
Anthony
Wiseman

then you consider a deal down

rather than selecting at SEVEN from

Haliburton
Carey
Okongwu
Achiuwua
Okuru
Hampton
+ other (mostly guards) not named
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 01, 2020, 10:21:26 AM
Jalen McDamiels is a giuy I should have in that 7-end of lottery group.  My bad. 

6-10 SF/PF out of UWash with a handle.  Brother plays for someone - I forget
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 01, 2020, 10:27:01 AM
PTS
20.5

REB
4.3

AST
5.5

FG%
46.8

How do you like these stats for a PG out of the PAC 12?



https://publish.twitter.com/?query=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Ffastpp3%2Fstatus%2F1243699750307631104&widget=Tweet
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 01, 2020, 11:11:12 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 01, 2020, 10:18:31 AM
I would think - if we in a hypothetical have the SEVEN - and 1-6 goes

Edwards
Ball
Toppin
Avdija
Anthony
Wiseman

then you consider a deal down
rather than selecting at SEVEN from

Haliburton
Carey
Okongwu
Achiuwua
Okuru
Hampton
+ other (mostly guards) not named

To me, you take Ty Halibut or Okongwo or whichever guy is highest on your board.
I'd probably only trade down if: 1) my guy was almost certain to go later in a slot I could still snag him or 2)I didn't really want any of them particularly

Knix are so in need of almost everything.  That I'd just get the best player I could get, with emphasis on a G.  I'd prioritize G play, shooting, defense.  Which is why Ty H sounds pretty good to me.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 01, 2020, 11:57:07 AM
Sounds like we agree

Don't confuse CONSIDERING trading down with definitely doing so.  It will always be offer and board dependent.

That said - no way is Haliburton a 7.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 01, 2020, 12:04:44 PM
You are taking Haliburton and not signing Payton (unless you want 4 point guards, not including undrafted guys we may want to look at).

This makes you better .... when?  By what degree?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 01, 2020, 12:43:33 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 01, 2020, 12:04:44 PM
You are taking Haliburton and not signing Payton (unless you want 4 point guards, not including undrafted guys we may want to look at).

This makes you better .... when?  By what degree?

Better immediately by having a PG who can actually make a 3 pointer.

Elf shot 20% on 1.5 3's a game.  That's horrific.  Usually if you shoot so few, the ones you do take are wide open, so your % is decent even if you are a poor 3-point shooter.  20%?

Elf made 14 3-pointers the whole year (46 game played).  Only 49 FTA's @ 57% FT. That's why he's a backup PG, and spot starter.

Franc made 44 3's in 57 games at a very weak 32% clip.
Was our starter for nearly half the season.
Franc actually made his FT's (86%) but took just 59 in 57 games.

Jr. Smith made just 16's 3's in 34 games at a 29% rate.

So our 3 PG's tallied a combined 74 made 3's.  Awful.
When Franc is your best PG outside shooter ... well, you got troubles.

So Ty makes us better.  Provides a threat with the ball on the perimeter.  Which is especially useful since Mitch and Julius are paint players.  Opps can't just go under the screen on PnR's.  More driving lanes for Randle and others.  Open the court.  Get 3 points for a shot now and then.

Re-sign Elf if you can.  And then either move Franc to SG or move one of Franc/Jr. Smith, who is quite the enigma.  Pretty simple stuff really.
A backcourt shooter would help a lot.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 01, 2020, 01:07:59 PM
I've assumed all along the season is done.

Some talk about having playoffs in Las Vegas without fans.  This is basically the model that the China CBA came up with, but has already delayed the start.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 01, 2020, 01:13:33 PM
Watching Obi wan keToppin highlights.
Well, I can see the Amare / JohN Collins comps.
On O, OT is dynamic and aggressive and runs the floor well.
On D, he's pretty inept.  Bad at both perimeter and post D.
I guess the most enticing thing is if he can shoot the 3 ball well, combined with his other O.  Looks like pretty good form.  Interesting player.

Could Toppin play the 4 next to Mitch, who could help out on D by covering whichever opponent big is most threatening?  Would that limit OT's O, by having two lob guys in each other's way.  But if Toppin can hit his 3's ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 01, 2020, 01:35:08 PM
I think if we go in the Haliburton or Hayes direction that Dennis or Frank becomes the starter - and the rookie gets sub 20 minutes per off the bench.
Didnt include Mannion because his dad says he isnt declaring.

MAXEY of Kentucky is a guy who may rise.  COULD be good enough to start at the 2 with Barrett at the 3.

Smith
Maxey/Barrett
Barrett/Harkless
Randle/Harkless
Robinson/Randle

Frank
Knox
Brazdekis
big
big

- but I am still looking at top lead guard or BIG with the first selection. Would loove to have something to use in rotation with Mitch and Julius


Speaking of JR - Hoopshype had the info recently that Knicks WERE ready to move Randle to get Terry Rozier and Malik Monk.  D Smith and a pick would have been included - Hornets eventually nixing it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 01, 2020, 04:43:58 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 01, 2020, 01:13:33 PM
Watching Obi wan keToppin highlights.
Well, I can see the Amare / JohN Collins comps.
On O, OT is dynamic and aggressive and runs the floor well.
On D, he's pretty inept.  Bad at both perimeter and post D.
I guess the most enticing thing is if he can shoot the 3 ball well, combined with his other O.  Looks like pretty good form.  Interesting player.

Could Toppin pay the 4 next to Mitch, who could help out on D by covering whichever opponent big is most threatening?  Would that limit OT's O, by having two lob guys in each other's way.  But if Toppin can hit his 3's ...

The Toppin - Robinson frontcourt would be epic. He’d have a year behind Randle to figure out the NBA pace, spacing, and D. If you give Mitch the high pick and roll which teams already need to help on, it leaves Toppin open on the baseline for dives and corner 3’s.

I like the idea of picking up a guard in the second round when guys like Prichard, Flynn, and the senior from MSU will probably still be around.

Aside from Ball, Hayes, and Anthony Edwards the backcourt talent falls off into the mid lottery and the talent there is more in the wings and the bigs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 01, 2020, 05:06:54 PM
Elfrid Payton has started 331 of 387 career games
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 01, 2020, 05:23:54 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 01, 2020, 05:06:54 PM
Elfrid Payton has started 331 of 387 career games

25
35
29
25 / 21
33
21

That's how many games his teams have won each year.

And he's been on 4 teams in the last 3 years.

If Elf is your starting PG, your team is in trouble.
He's a quality backup.  Who can spot start.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 01, 2020, 05:55:53 PM
Shroder got better - and was no longer a starter.

You are right - it can be team dependent.

Calling Elfrid a bench guy just didnt make any sense though.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 01, 2020, 06:01:34 PM
Payton's assists per 36 minutes were a career high, turnovers a career low.

His FT% was baffling - but a solid season.

I do think when you think a  guy's salary will be decreasing the current team is usually at a disadvantage (EX:  Mudiay would not have signed for what he did with Jazz - if in NY)

Is someone going 3-25 or more on Elf?  I dont know.  I pretty much know we arent.  Thius my scenario plays out.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 01, 2020, 06:12:14 PM
We should pick up his option. He’ll be a real good caddy for Frank and second unit conductor next year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 02, 2020, 12:52:39 AM
You can get by with a guy like Elf as your starting PG.  IND did with Collison; ORL with DJ Augustin.  Though both of those guys became strong 3 point shooters.

If Elf (or Franc) is running your team, you definitely need shooters.
After we traded MaMo, we had no one who shot better than league average.
Portis or Dot were our best 3-point shooters.

Elf + inside Bigs + callow Yute = a bad team

I'm fine with bringing back Elf.  Knix certainly can use more continuity.  But he doesn't project as a long term starter.  Not on a good team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 02, 2020, 01:09:09 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 01, 2020, 11:57:07 AM
Sounds like we agree

Don't confuse CONSIDERING trading down with definitely doing so.  It will always be offer and board dependent.

That said - no way is Haliburton a 7.

Shai Gilgous Alexander wasn't considered a top 10 pick either.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 02, 2020, 01:11:36 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 01, 2020, 01:07:59 PM
I've assumed all along the season is done.

Some talk about having playoffs in Las Vegas without fans.  This is basically the model that the China CBA came up with, but has already delayed the start.

Everything lines up for the pre-season tournament Silver wants.  Just start the 2019-2020 playoffs 8 weeks before the 2020-2021 season.   Maybe shorten next season a little bit to spread the load out.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 02, 2020, 02:26:16 AM
Quote from: Kam on April 02, 2020, 01:09:09 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 01, 2020, 11:57:07 AM
That said - no way is Haliburton a 7.

Shai Gilgous Alexander wasn't considered a top 10 pick either.

SGA was definitely moving up the draft boards based on his workouts.  He had enough buzz the last two weeks prior to the draft that he was moving into our range (#9).  Shai beat out one Bridges to be the #11 pick.  And obviously Shai would have been a better pick than Knox (#9).  So I agree with Kam, you tab the guy you want and don't worry much if the consensus has him lower down.  The consensus would always be substantially reshuffled on redraft two or three years out.

I never know how to feel about those late risers.  It's mostly based on individual workouts, maybe some 3-on-3 runs.  Some guys are great workout guys, that doesn't translate to game skills.  Some guys have game savvy and don't look as good in workouts.  Some guys have just prepped better, practiced standard drills, and are in better condition, but not necessarily great players.
It's tricky.  But often late risers do well.

Ty H could be a bargain since injury hurt his stock.  And teams want to investigate that funky shot release.
Workouts will be very important, since so many of this year's top prospects played limited college hoops or played overseas.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 02, 2020, 02:39:05 AM
Watched some Cole Anthony highlights.  He sure killed Notre Dame.
I'm not comfortable evaluating these short long-range chuckers.  I don't think some of his fakes and drives would work in the NBA.  But of course he'll grow and adapt.  I'd have to see CA in high school and check his progress in college. 

Overall, I wasn't too impressed, but he only played part of his freshman year, and I don't watch college ball so don't know the level and such.  And that type of player isn't my fave, though in the wake of Steph and Trae is becoming more prevalent.  (Coby White, Sexton, etc).

Would have been real useful to see him develop over the course of a full college season.  He had meniscus surgery.  Not sure how much of a concern that is going forward.  If any.    Not what I'd be looking to add to these Knix -- a Coby White/Sexton -- but I do have a bias against jack-it-up, head-down PG's.  And really would need to see more to project better. Probably watching a few whole games would help, but I'm not that invested.

I'm not a draftnik.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 02, 2020, 02:52:11 AM
One game I like to play is identifying the future busts who are projected to go Top 10.  Because every year there are 2 or 3 busts in the Top 10.  So you should be able to spot them beforehand. 

For that 2018 draft, I had MoBomb pegged as the easy mark.
Sexton a potential bust.
And Knox was seen as high risk/high reward.  Too young to have a game yet, but good physical tools.   So far La Bamba and Knox are the weak links.

Otherwise a pretty strong top of the draft, with the Top 5 all looking pretty good.  All averaging 15 ppg or more. 2 all-stars (Luka & Trae)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 02, 2020, 02:57:06 AM
2019, I didn't look too far, since the Knix had the 3rd pick.

RJB was the consensus, though Hunter and Culver sounded like good 3&D prospects.
RJB turned out to have the shooting and defensive shortcomings that were noted pre-draft.

No one else really seemed a threat to go 3rd, so I didn't check up on the others and who might be a bust.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 02, 2020, 09:16:42 AM
I'm fine with bringing back Elf.  Knix certainly can use more continuity.  But he doesn't project as a long term starter.  Not on a good team.


I predicted this shift from you with 97% certainty   -   heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 02, 2020, 09:23:58 AM

For that 2018 draft, I had MoBomb pegged as the easy mark.
Sexton a potential bust.
And Knox was seen as high risk/high reward.  Too young to have a game yet, but good physical tools.   So far La Bamba and Knox are the weak links


I dont recall any negativity here re:  Knox.


I like Mo Bamba.  Playing behind a pretty good talent right now in Vucevic.  Will he need another locale to blossom?  We'll see.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 02, 2020, 09:46:29 AM
OK, lets have some fun with analytics

From that 2018 Knox draft

Give me the top ten in WIN SHARES per 48 minutes, career

Then give me a bottom ten using just first rounders.


I will start you off

BEST is in fact our Mitchell Robinson    .230
WORST is Jacob Evans of the Warriors/moved to Wolves      -.047


Other first rounders were:

Ayton, Bagley, Doncic, Jar Jackson, T Young, Bamba, W Carter, Secton, Knox, Bridges (PHX), Shae Gilg, Bridges (CHA), J Robinson, Porter, T Brown, Z Smith, DiVincenzo, L Walker, Huerter, Okoge, G Allen, Hutchison, A Holiday, Simons, Wagner, Shamet, R Williams, Evans, Musa, Spellman.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 02, 2020, 01:19:53 PM
re:  draft

"Teams put players in tiers or buckets at the start of the process," an Eastern Conference executive says. "The tiers aren't going to change. How players usually move up—the interviews, the one-on-one time with the GM, the private workouts—that's gone."

It's not as if the top-rated talent—prospects such as Anthony Edwards, LaMelo Ball and James Wiseman—won't still be among the first half-dozen players taken, but the exact order at the top, along with decisions made throughout the draft, could be based more on actual performance than perceived potential this year.

"This is a basketball person's draft, based on actual basketball play," the front-office executive says. "The high-ranking decision-makers who have been working all year aren't going to miss a beat. It's going to expose the GMs who were flying around with their teams staying in Four Seasons rather than going [to scout] in Dayton, Ohio, and staying at the Courtyard Marriott. If there are no more data points coming in, they're screwed."





https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2883250-the-2020-draft-has-nba-guessing
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 02, 2020, 01:21:50 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 02, 2020, 09:23:58 AM
I dont recall any negativity here re:  Knox.

I was a bit surprised the Knix went for the young unformed potential of Knox.
I thought they'd play it safer with one of the Bridges.  I kind of liked the Knox gamble.  Hoped they knew what they were doing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 02, 2020, 01:32:14 PM
"Someone is going to go eighth in this draft and be an All-Star," the first front-office executive says, "and someone is going to go ninth and not get their rookie contract extended. It's not as simple as going back to study more film because so many of these guys, Euro and American, didn't play. If ever there was a price to be paid for cramming late, this is the year."




Let's hope we are on the good end of this for a change (not discounting KP).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 02, 2020, 01:45:47 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 02, 2020, 09:46:29 AM
OK, lets have some fun with analytics

From that 2018 Knox draft

Give me the top ten in WIN SHARES per 48 minutes, career

Then give me a bottom ten using just first rounders.


I will start you off

BEST is in fact our Mitchell Robinson    .230
WORST is Jacob Evans of the Warriors/moved to Wolves      -.047


Other first rounders were:

Ayton, Bagley, Doncic, Jar Jackson, T Young, Bamba, W Carter, Secton, Knox, Bridges (PHX), Shae Gilg, Bridges (CHA), J Robinson, Porter, T Brown, Z Smith, DiVincenzo, L Walker, Huerter, Okoge, G Allen, Hutchison, A Holiday, Simons, Wagner, Shamet, R Williams, Evans, Musa, Spellman.


Well.... anyway...


Win shares per 48 minutes, 2018 draftees:


1 -  Mitchell Robinson    .230

2 -  Robert Williams     .203

3 -  Luka Doncic    .151

4 -  Michael Porter Jr     .141

5 -  Donte DiVincenzo    .137

6 -  DeAndre Ayton       .125

7 -  Mohamed Bamba    .124

8 -  Shake Milton     .111

9 -  Wendell Carter    .105

10 -  Jaren Jackson Jr      .102

(next 5 were Bagley, Gilgeous=Alexander, Shamet, Young and Brunson.  Thomas Welsh was discounted for having played just 36 minutes)



Bottom 5 (first round only)



30 -  Jacob Evans    -.047

29 -  Kevin Knox     -.017

28 -  Dzanan Musa   -.008

27 -  Jerome Robinson   -.006

26 -  Anfernee Simons   +.011

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 02, 2020, 02:48:21 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 02, 2020, 01:45:47 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 02, 2020, 09:46:29 AM
OK, lets have some fun with analytics

From that 2018 Knox draft

Give me the top ten in WIN SHARES per 48 minutes, career

Then give me a bottom ten using just first rounders.


I will start you off

BEST is in fact our Mitchell Robinson    .230
WORST is Jacob Evans of the Warriors/moved to Wolves      -.047


Other first rounders were:

Ayton, Bagley, Doncic, Jar Jackson, T Young, Bamba, W Carter, Secton, Knox, Bridges (PHX), Shae Gilg, Bridges (CHA), J Robinson, Porter, T Brown, Z Smith, DiVincenzo, L Walker, Huerter, Okoge, G Allen, Hutchison, A Holiday, Simons, Wagner, Shamet, R Williams, Evans, Musa, Spellman.


Well.... anyway...


Win shares per 48 minutes, 2018 draftees:


1 -  Mitchell Robinson    .230

2 -  Robert Williams     .203

3 -  Luka Doncic    .151

4 -  Michael Porter Jr     .141

5 -  Donte DiVincenzo    .137


These guys are all on winning teams.  Except Mrob.  More win shares to go around when your teams actually win.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 02, 2020, 06:35:29 PM
15 of the top 50 this year are on losing teams
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 03, 2020, 02:27:29 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 02, 2020, 06:35:29 PM
15 of the top 50 this year are on losing teams

And? By that math 35 of the top 50 aren't
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 03, 2020, 04:11:22 AM
For those keeping score at home, scuttlebutt says the work stoppage means most teams will go through the draft process with coaching staff and management in place if the draft occurs before other activities resume which seems increasingly likely. This includes the Knicks with Perry and Miller.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 03, 2020, 02:40:26 PM
http://www.sny.tv/knicks/news/how-knicks-nets-salary-cap-situation-could-be-impacted-by-coronavirus/313206160 (http://www.sny.tv/knicks/news/how-knicks-nets-salary-cap-situation-could-be-impacted-by-coronavirus/313206160)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 03, 2020, 02:58:08 PM
Thanks for the link. I highly recommend the Loud Mouths segment.
Title: Discontinuity
Post by: bodiddley on April 04, 2020, 03:52:27 AM
It's hard to believe that a team that traded KZ for crapola and replaced him with Julius Randle will get anything right.

Expect more flailing, more changes of direction, more roster and leadership shuffling.
Wonder what stage the new coach search is at?  Wonder who wants the job?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 04, 2020, 01:18:37 PM
Expect more flailing, more changes of direction, more roster and leadership shuffling.
[/i

Welcome to the NBA
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 04, 2020, 02:16:16 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 04, 2020, 01:18:37 PM
Expect more flailing, more changes of direction, more roster and leadership shuffling.

Welcome to the NBA

No.  The Knix dysfunction is legendary.  And you shouldn't try to normalize it.

It's like the Clippers when Sterling owned them and Elgin ran things. And even then you had a stable, but bad, front office.  It takes a special ability to continually fuck things up.  On the level of Dolan, or Trump.  Sacto went through a pretty miserable stretch  for a while.  Don't the Knix have the very worst record int eh 21st C?

The NYK roster reshuffles (who's our longest tenured player?  Franc?), the coaching churn, the front office sweeps.  The way we ran Melo, Noah, KZ out of town.  The endless drama ranging from Marbury cousins to Larry Brown conducting interviews on the roadside.  Even feuds with Oak and now Spike Lee.  Hell, the Commish had to perform an intervention and set up Donnie Walsh as the head for a time.  From top to bottom the organization is a mess and unstable and paranoid.  Most players just come through for a paycheck and leave and are relieved to be with a more professional team.  I doubt anyone expects to be with NYK for long (except Mills and he's finally pink-slipped).

It's welcome to the worst of the NBA ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 04, 2020, 02:39:00 PM
Might be a cool exercise to go year by year starting with '99-00, discussing moves and non moves

One thing is for certain.  Players sure haven't helped us.  Nor have coaches, in deciding not to come here
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 04, 2020, 06:12:34 PM

'99-'00

Off a Finals appearance - Knicks had just dealt a future #1 for Mirsad Turckan

Draft Freddie Weis - #15
Draft J R Koch - #46

Waive Dennis Scott

Sign John Wallace
Sign Andrew Lang

Finish 50-32, lose EC Finals
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 04, 2020, 07:06:17 PM
Artest would have gotten us over the hump that year and been part of the backbone till he lost his mind. Would have been something to watch for sure.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 04, 2020, 09:33:31 PM
'00-'01


Traded an aging Ewing (rather than just have his $$ off the cap) for Glen Rice, fluff and a slew of picks, then used two of the picks to add Othella Harrington

LJ shows he has little left. He was a warrior playing in pain.

Camby misses 19 games and has a shit playoff.

48-34, out in first round

We also traded PGs with Raptors - then the one we dealt outplays the one we got - and we lose to the lesser team in 5, losing twice at the Garden

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 05, 2020, 02:16:33 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 04, 2020, 09:33:31 PM
'00-'01
LJ shows he has little left. He was a warrior playing in pain.

That was the year and that was the reason I joined the NYT Knicks forum.
The prior season I thought LJ was doing some seriously heroic ish, just playing his ass off.  Despite being somewhat limited by injury, he not just toughed it out and was just playing such smart tough hoops.  I joined the forum because I wanted to know if anyone else felt the way I did and recognize the heroic effort LJ was putting down.  Not like I had anyone to chat Knix with in Shanghai.

I had mostly thought of him as a physical specimen, not a hoops savant.
Basketball ref has LJ listed as just 6'6".  So it impacted him when his back was bad and hops were going.  Yet he adjusted and just always found ways to contribute.
LJ is the 2nd most famous athlete from Tyler TX.  Anybody know who #1 is?

When I first started on the NYT Knix forum, kiid was getting frequently banned and returning under different aliases, and Chip and others would spot him right off and call him out, and I thought that this was a rather strange chat board, but people were Knick fans and passionate.  No idea why kiid was getting frequent bans; for political chatter I think, in forums I wasn't reading.

Otherwise, Chip is good at this historical rehashing and remembering all the misfires and mistakes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 05, 2020, 02:22:12 PM
I wasn't on politics boards back then.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 05, 2020, 02:25:00 PM
Then you were getting banned for shenanigans in the Sports forums.

I distinctly remember this because it was such an odd introduction to the forum.

So why were you getting banned at the NYT?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 05, 2020, 02:32:40 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 04, 2020, 06:12:34 PM
'99-'00
Off a Finals appearance - Knicks had just dealt a future #1 for Mirsad Turckan

I think Turcsan was the first Turkish player in the NBA.
Maybe someone with easy wikipedia access can verify that.

When he was 29 he married the last Miss Serbia & Montenegro, who was 19.  She kind of looks like a slavic Julia Roberts.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 05, 2020, 02:52:52 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 04, 2020, 06:12:34 PM
'99-'00
Draft Freddie Weis - #15

Could have drafted Artest or James Posey or Kirilenko.

Quote
Draft J R Koch - #46

Both guys we drafted that year never played in an NBA game.  That's hard to do. Not that you can expect much from a mid/late 2nd rounder.  But that year the Spurs scooped up Manu with the #57 pick (out of 58 picks total).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 05, 2020, 05:37:34 PM
Then you were getting banned for shenanigans in the Sports forums.


heh

the good old days...

all went down hill when the Yanks stopped winning.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 05, 2020, 05:41:48 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 05, 2020, 02:52:52 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 04, 2020, 06:12:34 PM
'99-'00
Draft Freddie Weis - #15

Could have drafted Artest or James Posey or Kirilenko.

Quote
Draft J R Koch - #46

Both guys we drafted that year never played in an NBA game.  That's hard to do.
Not that you can expect much form a mid/late 2nd rounder.  But that year the Spurs scooped up Manu with the #57 pick (out of 59 picks total).

yeah

we know

What if Weis turned out to be as effective and headstrong as Kirilenko?  Europeans are tough to gauge.

But Artest was the easy pick.  Could not have been more clear.  And we arent the only team that should be criticized for that year.

Clearly we never saw Manu - or never in good light.  And didnt have someone that did see him touting his game to us.

The entire Dick McGuire era should be judged.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 06, 2020, 03:02:17 AM
I think this article and this one trade encapsulates all that is wrong with the Knix.
Even in real time, people were laughing at the Knix move.

The New York Knicks are trading for Andrea Bargnani, because of course they are (https://sports.yahoo.com/york-knicks-trading-andrea-bargnani-because-course-155517381.html?y20=1)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 06, 2020, 03:51:05 AM
https://fadeawayworld.com/2016/10/05/new-york-knicks-5-worst-trades-in-franchise-history/ (https://fadeawayworld.com/2016/10/05/new-york-knicks-5-worst-trades-in-franchise-history/)

Notice they are all from the Dolan Era.
McDyess, like Bargnani, was a trade for a gimp.
Though we gave up more for McDice.  Basically Amare and Camby.
I wouldn't agree with the Melo trade, because we got a prime healthy star, and Melo didn't seem willing to wait, and the Nets were itnerested.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 06, 2020, 11:36:42 AM
I figured we could discuss year to year

Anyone want to take it from the 48-34, dealing Ewing (rather than get nothing for him), Mark Jackson/Marcus Camby choke year?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 06, 2020, 01:17:58 PM
Nobody's stopping you.

I just got right to the lowlights.

So many of the trades have been easy calls at the time.
Curry was a slug; I advocated waiting for TyC to become available.
McDyess was a gimp; the high draft pick and Camby were more valuable.
Bargnani was a weak sister with injury woes TOR was eager to ditch.
TyC was traded for useless parts.
KZ, even with one functional knee, was clearly worth keeping and worth way more than the garbage selection we got.

Knix are really bad at trading.

The only trade that was reasonable and reasonably debatable was the Melo deal.  We gave up a lot to get the best player in the trade, a star scorer.  We probably should have gambled that he could wait for the Summer as a FA.  But none of what we gave was as good as Melo.  People were upset we tossed Mozguy into the deal.  Boo-hoo.  Does anyone even know when he dropped out of the NBA or what his last team was?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 06, 2020, 02:33:47 PM
Any thoughts on dealing Patrick?

I dont want revisionism.  Curry had numbers.  Did he also have issues? I dont know.   The thinking of the brass at the time has to be examined, to be fair.  "Knew he was a slug" is just lazy analysis.

I stated Artest appeared to be a no brainer - a stand up double in the gap - but Knicks went for the home run.  And got the swinging K.  They may have been concerned with Ron Ron's temperament.  Or maybe they were seeking a certain position, feeling they had Ron's type already (LJ getting old fast quashing that in the end)

Sure.  I will do all the years. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 06, 2020, 05:29:39 PM
We traded Patrick at the exact wrong time. Had we done it a year or two prior it might have led to a serious return. Having waited that long we should have kept him on through his contract at least and given him a chance to retire a Knick or move on.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 06, 2020, 09:57:12 PM
I liked those last 2 JVG teams - though I hated moving Childs   Battlers.

I would have been OK keeping Ewing.  But I am not sure we could have cut him down to 2+ mil from 14 if we had.  Moving on after the 1 year, not having him retire a Knick, was the likely result anyway.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 07, 2020, 12:34:17 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 06, 2020, 02:33:47 PM
I dont want revisionism.  Curry had numbers.  Did he also have issues? I dont know.   The thinking of the brass at the time has to be examined, to be fair.  "Knew he was a slug" is just lazy analysis.
 

Curry had poor conditioning, weak D and a low impact on winning.  Which is why CHI was giving up on him.
At the time, I said No to Curry and that we should trade for TyC instead.  Chip said he wasn't available so my idea was pointless.  So we got Curry, who continued being not much help, despite one good year numberswise, before he injured a muscle most humans don't possess.  Then the next year TyC was traded ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 07, 2020, 12:13:57 PM
At the time, I said No to Curry and that we should trade for TyC instead.  Chip said he wasn't available so my idea was pointless. 


All good.

Chip was probably right.



Open minded fans allow management to run - while giving opinions after seeing both siides.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 07, 2020, 12:29:24 PM
Chip was wrong.  He was in on Curry while maintaining TyC wasn't available.
Not long after TyC was available.  We should have passed on Curry and waited for TyC.  Or pursued another target.  Knix were impatient as usual.

TyC & Curry should have been a dynamic duo.  And the fact they weren't should have told us a lot.

A lot of times there's a reason a player is available (not counting when a player forces his way out).  He's gimpy (McDice, Bargnani).  He's not motivated or effective (Curry, Bargs).  His defense is poor (Curry, Bargs). 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 07, 2020, 05:34:59 PM
..or because a team just loves the deal

#2 overall pick - back before protecting picks was a thing.......

tough to pass for Bulls.

When they dealt Chandler it was seemingly a fit thing - which also fell in line with the Curry move.

I didnt see TyC/Curry twin towers as any more promising than Cartwright with Ewing.  Both were true centers.  I guess you could fault Bulls for getting themselves into that mess by drafting the duo rather than going in another direction with one of the picks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 08, 2020, 12:57:04 AM
Speaking of the Bulls, it recently came out that they were looking to trade (before the 1994 draft) Pippen and their #1 (pick 21)  for Kemp and their #1 (pick 11)  and would've selected Jalen Rose.  Jordan, Kemp, Rose. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 08, 2020, 02:16:50 AM
Bulls were shopping Curry.
Knix were the mark.
Same with Bargs later.
And both times we gave up too much.

The problem is Knix target the wrong players -- usually big names who are old or big names who are gimpy.  And I think the whole reason is that if you have Marbury or TMac, Steve Francis or Kidd, Curry, Amare, Melo, TyC, etc -- you can market that, and folks come out to see the big names; the team gets buzz, even if some of it is negative.

Basically it's a strategy to sell-out the Garden to corporate accounts and out of states rubes.  Drafting young studs and watching them learn on the job isn't as sexy or sell-able, unless you have the #1 pick. 

It's all a short-term marketing strategy, money-making prioritized over fit or winning.  The constant churn of players and coaches means there's new hope, new uncertainty, people don't get tired of watching the same stale product.  Always a new storyline.  I think the famed NY impatience stems from the management and the desire to sell tickets.

Knix finally stopped trading away 1st rounders (about the only thing Phil did well, an act of omission).  It was too obviously a bad strategy.  The Knix draft reasonably well -- hit or miss, with a good rate of 2nd round overachievers.  But trade terribly.  And trading is usually the mark of impatience.

The other theory, not mutually exclusive, is that the Knicks are staffed by sycophants and incompetents.

 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 08, 2020, 12:17:12 PM
It started with the end of the Ewing era.  Mgmt grew fat on those 15 years of good play and deep playoff runs.  When it was time to let Ewing go they held onto him because they didn't want the money train to slow down.  Then when it was really time to let him go they couldn't appease themselves with cap space "cap space doesn't sell tickets" so they needed more names back in the deal... nevermind they were old names like Baker and Rice.  They were names and the suits coud squeeze another year or two from the Ewing stone by getting those names.  The cycle then kept perpetuating.

The BULLS didn't do that.  They quickly bottomed out after winning chips.  But their strategy failed also becuase they picked in bad drafts or got unlucky with the players health that they picked. High pick after high draft pick amounted to nothing for years.  A small blip with the Rose/Noah team and then back down to lottery hell.

In that timeframe the Lakers won because they had the most dominant player in the game, the Spurs won because they combined luck with smart drafting.  The east was historically weak and only a Detroit team of mid level stars broke up the western hegemony.   The only thing that stopped the West was the start of the "Superteam" era thanks to the Celtics.   The Celtics bold gambit spurred LeBron's superteam dreams.

Moral of the story:  It's hard to win no matter what strategy you employ, and you need to get lucky and you need to have smart management and even then..... it's still hard to win.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 08, 2020, 08:46:43 PM
http://nypost.com/2020/04/08/fred-klein-the-knicks-most-loyal-fan-dies-of-coronavirus/ (http://nypost.com/2020/04/08/fred-klein-the-knicks-most-loyal-fan-dies-of-coronavirus/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 09, 2020, 02:15:24 AM
Quote from: Kam on April 08, 2020, 12:17:12 PM
Moral of the story:  It's hard to win no matter what strategy you employ, and you need to get lucky and you need to have smart management and even then..... it's still hard to win.

Focusing on championships only is a suckers game.

Knix are so far away from that, so there are numerous intermediate steps.
- find/develop some legit starters
- get a starting caliber PG
- play .500 ball and make the playoffs
- develop a culture and style of play
- maintain continuity
- attain all-star level player or two

If we were where INDy is, it would be a tremendous step up and much more interesting for the fans.  Even if the path to the next level was unclear.

Most NYK fans would be thrilled to be a 2nd tier playoff team trying to figure out the next steps.

Trading KZ for a bag of moldy beans set us back drastically and doesn't bode well for the next 5 years.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 09, 2020, 12:28:59 PM
We don't know yet the results of the KP trade.

Might even end up, "well, if we hadn't tossed in Hardaway....."

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 09, 2020, 12:44:53 PM
New draft entry - though he may not stay in


https://sports.yahoo.com/stanford-point-guard-tyrell-terry-declares-nba-draft-014644116--ncaab.html


stats


https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/4431747/tyrell-terry
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 09, 2020, 12:47:11 PM
Complete list


https://sports.yahoo.com/players-who-have-declared-for-the-nba-draft-193610580.html
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 09, 2020, 01:36:03 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 09, 2020, 02:15:24 AM
Quote from: Kam on April 08, 2020, 12:17:12 PM
Moral of the story:  It's hard to win no matter what strategy you employ, and you need to get lucky and you need to have smart management and even then..... it's still hard to win.

Focusing on championships only is a suckers game.


It's all or nothing.  Everything else is just disappointment postponed.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 10, 2020, 08:13:40 PM
Program note

NBATV

1 AM Eastern

Bulls v Knicks from 1995.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 10, 2020, 11:59:28 PM
http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/257845/NBA-Teams-Want-2020-Draft-Pushed-Back-Beyond-August-1st (http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/257845/NBA-Teams-Want-2020-Draft-Pushed-Back-Beyond-August-1st)

It’s a safe bet there won’t be any team activities till at earliest September if not till after Christmas.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 11, 2020, 02:06:01 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 09, 2020, 12:28:59 PM
We don't know yet the results of the KP trade.
Might even end up, "well, if we hadn't tossed in Hardaway....."

We don't know yet the results of Trump's leadership during the Covid crisis ...

At this point, the only thing that could happen is KZ gets reinjured.
(which would have been more likely on the Knix where he'd be asked t do more/too much)

I mean, is Jr. Smith going to suddenly become a legit starting PG? 
Are the circa #20 picks we inherit going to be hidden gems?

Chances are real slim the Knix get anything useful from trading an all-star level talent.  And you might be right, Tim Jr might turn out to be the 2nd best player in the deal.  Which of course makes things worse.   While I'm glad were not relying on Hardaway, erratic as he is -- and just check his Game Log or my old posts to confirm that -- he'd be our best and most dangerous shooter.

Hard to believe anyone still believes our KZ trade wasn't a 100% disaster.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 11, 2020, 10:34:38 AM
Are the circa #20 picks we inherit going to be hidden gems?



Could be.

We also get arguably a better pick in 2020 for not having KP and THJ.

And not paying KP all that cash opend possibilities - including if you just want to slot in a Randle-Harkless-Gibson combo moving forward (same price as the one tall moody Euro)

I think your best argument is "if we waited, would a better deal have surfaced?".  I think maybe there could have been - during the sign and trade window after his final contracted year.  Fun to speculate, I guess.  But getting higher picks in any KP trade means KP accepting a deal to a poor team, with certain (Golden State this year for example) exceptions.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 11, 2020, 10:36:49 AM
The Stanford point guard, for instance - was listed in one mock as a #20 pick for 2021 draft - this before he entered for 2020.  (he may still decide to go back to college for his soph season)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 11, 2020, 10:40:19 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 10, 2020, 11:59:28 PM
http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/257845/NBA-Teams-Want-2020-Draft-Pushed-Back-Beyond-August-1st (http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/257845/NBA-Teams-Want-2020-Draft-Pushed-Back-Beyond-August-1st)

It’s a safe bet there won’t be any team activities till at earliest September if not till after Christmas.

The article you link to says they envision THIS YEAR's season ending around Labor Day.  That would have teams in the gym working out (short training camp prior to completing current season) around June 20-July 1.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on April 11, 2020, 10:42:33 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 06, 2020, 11:36:42 AM
I figured we could discuss year to year

Anyone want to take it from the 48-34, dealing Ewing (rather than get nothing for him), Mark Jackson/Marcus Camby choke year?

Rather than get nothing for Ewing.

Rathe than get all of that cap space from an expiring  contract we got garbage and bad contracts.

And the Camby choke?

His sister was sexuallly assaulted, for fuck's sake.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 11, 2020, 10:55:54 AM
This is old but -

Bradley Beal to Brooklyn?  Interesting

(also has the snippet on Rozier and NYK)


https://basketball.realgm.com/news/wiretap/tags/18/Trade%20Rumor
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 11, 2020, 10:56:42 AM
I think calling Glen Rice garbage is about the most idiotic thing I have heard here in some time.


Nice to hear from you, Stern-a-la.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 11, 2020, 02:41:53 PM
I think it was hard to make a worse deal for KZ.
There was no reason to rush.

A new book about Philly's tank Process details how KZ's agent jerked around PHI and never met with their GM Hinkie despite his many attempts. 
https://newzandar.com/2020/04/08/how-kristaps-porzingis-nba-draft-runaround-changed-the-fate-of-two-franchises/
Apparently they had many grievances against PHI including their development of players.

PHI wound up taking Okafor 3rd.
Which was very good for us, since then we got KZ 4th.

If 6ers took KZ 3rd, we would have had a choice of Okafor, Zonja, Cauley Stein, Muddy, Stan Johnson, FranktheTank.  Well, at least that's the rest of the Top 9.
My Turner, Booker, Winslow were all there too, but went 10-13.
I assume we'd go Okafor since he was considered a potential #1.

Btw, I wonder if any other draft had not one starter from 5-9.  Unusual to find a handful of role players that high.  For such a spotty draft, the 2nd round was pretty solid.  https://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2015.html

Otherwise, the book says that Fultz wanted to avoid PHI & NYK, thinking they'd be too near his MD home.  And maybe big city shy.  Certainly not encouraging.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 11, 2020, 03:14:30 PM
I would have taken Winslow at 4 if KP was gone but would have been ok with Okafor
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 11, 2020, 03:37:50 PM
I thought Winslow as a player was somewhat overrated because he was mature and poised.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 11, 2020, 04:56:17 PM
Rathe than get all of that cap space from an expiring  contract we got garbage and bad contracts.


and picks

That we didnt use the picks as wisely as you (or anyone) liked is beyond the point.  Had the picks BEEN used wisely - lets say optimally for sake of argument - makes the Ewing deal smell pretttttty, pret-tyyyyyy good.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 11, 2020, 05:30:32 PM
http://www.sny.tv/knicks/news/watch-knicks-rj-barrett-absolutely-crosses-up-his-dog-kingston/313257842 (http://www.sny.tv/knicks/news/watch-knicks-rj-barrett-absolutely-crosses-up-his-dog-kingston/313257842)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on April 12, 2020, 08:22:38 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 11, 2020, 10:56:42 AM
I think calling Glen Rice garbage is about the most idiotic thing I have heard here in some time.


Nice to hear from you, Stern-a-la.

Hope all is sare with your family on the home front.
Title: sare
Post by: carlos123 on April 12, 2020, 09:06:22 PM
Quote
Hope all is sare with your family on the home front.

Sustainable Agriculture Research and Education (SARE)?

Also, Säre is a village in Antsla Parish, Võru County in southeastern Estonia, near Latvia.

And: SARE: Southeast Asian Review of English is an open access peer-reviewed journal founded in 1980 that publishes scholarly articles and other materials.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 13, 2020, 12:22:15 AM
Quote from: chipstern on April 12, 2020, 08:22:38 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 11, 2020, 10:56:42 AM
I think calling Glen Rice garbage is about the most idiotic thing I have heard here in some time.


Nice to hear from you, Stern-a-la.

Hope all is sare with your family on the home front.

Thank you.  We have been fortunate.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 13, 2020, 02:40:47 AM
Fortunate you have a Dem Guv and not some disorganized Trump guy (see Florida) or a typical GOPer who doesn't believe in science much.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 13, 2020, 09:21:22 AM
I don't know how much you folks pay for basketball shoes, but I was hoping for $75 or under for a good pair. 

Last time I bought sneakers was about 8 years ago.  I hit the Li Ning flagship store on a major pedestrian street, the store long since moved.  And they had a 2-for-1 sale, so I picked up two pair for about $70.  A friend at hoops asked me where I got my new hightops and when I told him about the sale, he went and bought 2 pair also.  But they had dropped down the sale price to 2 for $55.  So I went back and snapped up another two pair.  So oddly bought 4 pairs, for roughly $125, which lasted me these last 8 years.

So today I strolled down the main shopping avenue, and Shanghai's sneaker row, just a few blocks from where I live.  Puma was the first stop, and while I didn't see any Clyde's (disappointing) they had a whole series of Ralph Sampson shoes.  Billed as Ralph Sampson MVP shoes.  Huh?  Seems he was the All-Star game MVP in 1985.  I guess that's what they are referencing.  Anyway quite a time warp. 

Nest up, I wanted to buy some TMac Adidas for about $70.  A purple and silver number was somewhat snazzy, but they fit oddly.  Shaped oddly too.  Shoes in China are often not as wide as my feet.  Tried to buy some Derrick Rose 10 year anniversary shoes that looked very much like Air Jordans but they didn't have my size.  One size up was nearly okay but my heels slipped around too much for hoops.
Can't recall ever having a shoe fit well except the heel too wide.  Odd.  Those were $65 which seems about as low as any of the flagship stores go.  Which is fine if I get 2 years out of them.

Under Armour had a nice smell, like someone just finished taking as shower, and they were playing James Brown.  It didn't smell like they were playign James Brown, they just were playing The Godfather when I entered.  The seating to try on  shoes were raised and funky-comfortable.  Pretty nice set-up.  Unfortunately UA was also the priciest store, and the nice looking Curry's were going for nearly $200.  And I'd expect a couple pairs of sweatpants to come free with the shoes for such coin.

Next in line was Nike, where not much was under $100.  There were these Jordan Jumpman sneaks that went for $75 and looked nice but felt like they were made out of recycled cardboard.  Lightweight but flimsy.  Couldn't imagine those holding up to 2 or 3 nights a week of halfcourt hoops.  Most of the rest was $150-$200 which isn't what I pay for footwear.

I probably should try the Li Ning store and maybe another Chinese brand such as Anta.  I don't really care as long as they fit, look nice enough, and last close to 2 years.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 13, 2020, 01:10:27 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 03, 2020, 04:11:22 AM
For those keeping score at home, scuttlebutt says the work stoppage means most teams will go through the draft process with coaching staff and management in place if the draft occurs before other activities resume which seems increasingly likely. This includes the Knicks with Perry and Miller.

The Bulls have fired longtime general manager Gar Forman, the team announced Monday.

Forman first joined the Bulls as a scout in 1998 and performed a variety of roles throughout his two decades before being named GM in 2009. He was named the 2011 NBA Executive of the Year and led the Bulls to the playoffs in seven of his 10 years as general manager.

Forman's firing comes after Arturas Karnisovas took over as the team's new Executive Vice President of Basketball Operations on Monday.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on April 13, 2020, 02:29:44 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 13, 2020, 09:21:22 AM
I don't know how much you folks pay for basketball shoes, but I was hoping for $75 or under for a good pair. 

So I paid $15 for the last pair of basketball shoes I bought, and will likely ever buy, at Steve & Barry's.

The knees, sadly, forced me to give up the game and find different athletic pursuits, save for some shooting around and fun with little ones. Try not to even do that to much, lest I get tempted to get silly.

But the $15, on first gen original Starbury's, orange & blue model, was very well spent.

Nice and comfortable, exceedingly light, kinda like putting on a pair of old school canvas Cons. Yeah, flimsy, probably not good for your feet nor would they hold up for any long stretches of serious play, but they served every purpose including one last gasp season of winter indoor back in 09/10 or thereabouts and will hopefully still do so for my annual outdoor halfcourt game that's been  postponed on account of the Rona.

Was a cool shoe and gesture on Marbury's part to make prices accessible though I think a $25 price point rather than $15 might have allowed for a bit better quality.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 13, 2020, 02:51:02 PM
You get half price EVERYTHING here in the outlets - just have to look around - and be OK with last year's models.

Adidas, Nike, Under Armour, Converse, Reebok.......

Best deal I can recall was on the AND1 Iversons (AI3, I think it was) way back in the late 90s.  I wish I had bought more pairs.

AND1 was a solid company.  (Now a licensed name only, I think)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 13, 2020, 03:27:24 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 13, 2020, 02:51:02 PM
You get half price EVERYTHING here in the outlets - just have to look around - and be OK with last year's models.

Adidas, Nike, Under Armour, Converse, Reebok.......

Interesting.  That'd do me well.  I could care less what brand I'm wearing, just want something that looks reasonably good and can hold up all right.  Chinese used to think it was funny that I had Li Nings and they'd be wearing Nikes.  It confused them.  But this is Shanghai where people like to be fashionable and show off.

I often tell Chinese that America has a lot of price points and if you look around you can find bargains on many things.  They think it's all upscale expensive.  I inform them it's not.  Plenty of poor and frugal folks in the US.

There used to be cheap knock off Air Jordans here that looked nice but might hold up for 6 months of actual play.  Shoe repair is pretty cheap here, but it got ridiculous getting them sewed up and glued back together every few months to get a year out of them.

As I said, it's been at least 8 years, so I don't even know where to buy sneakers now.  Which is why I started with the big flagship stores on the fancy avenue.

I was reasonably impressed that each pair of Li Nings lasted roughly two years.  I play a lot, all year round, though just half court.

I never saw a pair of Marburys.  That was an interesting idea.  Didn't Shaq have a pair running like $40 or whatever?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 13, 2020, 04:34:15 PM
I loved the idea of Starburys, but the product didn’t work that well as a shoe. I play and fence in the new jack Puma Clydes. They were online at $80 a pair in certain colorways a few months back, so I laid in for a spare pair. They have great durable soles, a rubberized ankle sleeve and the lace mounts are near the sole so when you tighten the laces you are binding the whole sneaker to your foot, not just tightening up by the tongue. It makes a huge difference and feet and ankles feel much better the days after competition than they did in prior Addidas Cons or Nikes.

My head coaching field is down to Miller and Atkinson, full stop.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 13, 2020, 05:23:47 PM
Fuck.
KAT's mom died from coronavirus.
https://abc14news.com/2020/04/13/nba-star-karl-anthony-towns-mom-dies-from-coronavirus/

Not sure what the hell is up with that article.  I got another like that last week, where everything seems to have been translated to another language and then back to English by a computer.  So the family name Towns becomes Cities and such.

The article last week was about the Buffalo Bills, and the team kept being referred to as the Payments.

Anyway, sad stuff for Towns.
He played his high school hoops in Metuchen NJ just down the road from where I grew up.
Title: Charles Oakley
Post by: chipstern on April 13, 2020, 09:02:41 PM
This is a manifestly troubled, embittered man.

A major asshole....a one man pandemic.

A LOSER.

Hasta La Vista, you BIG BABY
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 13, 2020, 10:00:38 PM
More response than it's worth.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 14, 2020, 12:36:53 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 13, 2020, 05:23:47 PM


Thew article last week was about the Buffalo Bills, and the team kept being referred to as the Payments.



Ha!
Title: What was I pondering?
Post by: bodiddley on April 14, 2020, 12:44:55 AM
Here you go:

https://www.sportzet.com/2019/07/13/josh-allen-spent-the-offseason-watching-his-dumb-plays-as-a-rookie/

It's fun to guess which original words have been substituted with incorrect synonyms.

I like the phrase "playoff recreation"

And this quote:
"Why did I try this? What was I pondering?"

I've been trying to use that in life: "What was I pondering?"
Title: Assuming We Have An NBA Season.....
Post by: chipstern on April 14, 2020, 06:54:43 PM
If I had my druthers.

* Thibs as coach.  Retain MM as an assistant.

* Sign Van Vleet as a free agent.  Great shooter, solid point who can D up and penetrate.  Better than any of the kids who might be a reach in the draft class.   Think Fran F. has the right idea there.  Don't REACH for a PG out of desperation but maybe make a roll of the dice with the Clippers pick

* Draft best available player in the draft.  A stretch four who can shoot and defend would be nice.

* Or...OR...See if we could tempt the Bulls to give us the big Finn Laura (Porzingis Light) for our #1 or the Mavs picks.

* If we could pull that off, then my man Julius could be trade bait or pull time at center with Mitchell. He was starring to take significant teps forward the last 10 games or so, and I am a Randle enthusiast, but not sure he is an ideal fit going forward, particularly if Thibs is our coach.

* Frankie a keeper.  Elfrid and Dennis, Hasta La vista.

* RJ, Kevin, Mitchell, Iggie keepers.  And that big PF what's his name, the shot blocker who got hurt before he could get face time with the big club....Wooten.

* DD or Trier or Bullock?   

* Portis and Ellington money for Van Vleet in the unlikely event he'll leave Raptors.  And I like Portis, but not at $15 million.

* See if Taj would come back for less dough to be a player coach for Thibs.

Otherwise...the Donovan Mitchell projections are insane, and I love him. 

Don't see much which tempts me in free agency other than Van Vleet.  That Wood kid from the Pistons has serious upside...so does the Wizard's Bertrans.  Not sure how realistic they are.

Anyway, not much in the way of low hanging fruit, nor expectations that progress next year is ripe.  This year's free agent plan, as per Mills, which I cosigned, was a fucking disaster that completely set us back from our youth movement of 2018-2019.  We need to recommit to that and fill in around them. 

Anyway, who knows what Leon Rose has stashed in his panty hose. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 14, 2020, 08:23:22 PM
* Frankie a keeper.  Elfrid and Dennis, Hasta La vista.


The only option is on Payton

If FVV will come here - sure - I take him.  But be warned he is playing with a great coach and an ideal cast of teammates in Toronto. 

What does Frank become?  I take the ball out of his hands entirely (no play at the 1) - see if we might have an interesting unique wing guy who causes havoc in coverage/team D and limits offensive mistakes (have to also get him to be a bit more of a gambler at D end as well - and of course hitting the J is the other key)

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 14, 2020, 08:24:27 PM
As for coaches, I am not recommending another one.  Whoever it is - a bit of a crap shoot.
Title: Brief Candle
Post by: Kam on April 15, 2020, 03:26:47 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 18, 2019, 02:59:05 PM
David Blatt is now a Knicks basketball operations consultant.

European coaching legend David Blatt won’t be retained in new Knicks president Leon Rose’s administration, according to an NBA source.

Blatt’s removal does not bode well for Knicks player developmental director Craig Robinson, who also was a Princeton teammate of Mills. With the uncertainty of the lost revenues from the NBA’s suspension of the season, due to the coronavirus pandemic, there could be a league-wide trend of not renewing contracts.

-per the Post
Title: High School #1 recruit skipping College for new modified G-League
Post by: Kam on April 16, 2020, 02:54:17 PM
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29043828/sources-top-high-school-player-jalen-green-enter-nba-g-league-pathway (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29043828/sources-top-high-school-player-jalen-green-enter-nba-g-league-pathway)

And $500,000
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 16, 2020, 08:34:13 PM
Keeps him from having to go to Australia.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 17, 2020, 01:57:15 AM
I see from the banner on a Fox link from kiid that Abby Hornacek has hooked up with Fox.  Not surprised as they prefer their female talent to be or look like beauty pageant winners.  It should have been obvious ...

(https://s0.2mdn.net/9772609/970x250-keepthefaith.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 17, 2020, 04:33:44 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 17, 2020, 01:57:15 AM
I see from the banner on a Fox link from kiid that Abby Hornacek has hooked up with Fox.  Not surprised as they prefer their female talent to be or look like beauty pageant winners.  It should have been obvious ...

(https://s0.2mdn.net/9772609/970x250-keepthefaith.jpg)

I know they dole out hazard pay, but you have to be concerned for her in that work environment. It’s as if Isiah were president of a whole mis-info-tainment network.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 17, 2020, 04:42:49 AM
Would you want the Knicks to pursue packaging the Clippers pick and the 2nd rounder to a team with a higher pick, in the 19-25 range say, that also wants to fill more spots with live developable bodies while commuting less salary to one unproven rook?

We have a lot of players younger than guys in this draft already so we should prefer quality over quantity in youth.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 17, 2020, 02:04:52 PM
 I will link to it later ..

Excellent piece today on Mitchell Robinson in NY Post
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 17, 2020, 04:02:47 PM
https://nypost.com/2020/04/16/knicks-coach-search-mitchell-robinson-helps-mike-millers-chance/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 17, 2020, 04:21:48 PM
Please keep the Fox news advertising elsewhere.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 18, 2020, 07:38:14 AM
Quote from: Kam on April 17, 2020, 04:21:48 PM
Please keep the Fox news advertising elsewhere.

Actually he did.
He linked it appropriately in the politics thread.
But when I spotted Abby Hornacek in the Fox news banner, I thought I'd mention it here, since Knick fans would likely remember her.  Actually i wouldn't have recognized her, but it had her name along the bottom of her photo.  Abby looks like a young Jenny McCarthy ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 18, 2020, 03:02:44 PM
Poll on Twitter


Who wins - 7 games?


2013 Knicks

1999 Knicks
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 18, 2020, 05:13:35 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 18, 2020, 07:38:14 AM
Quote from: Kam on April 17, 2020, 04:21:48 PM
Please keep the Fox news advertising elsewhere.

Actually he did.
He linked it appropriately in the politics thread.
But when I spotted Abby Hornacek in the Fox news banned, I thought I'd mention it here, since Knick fans would likely remember her.  Actually i wouldn't have recognized her, but it had her name along the bottom of her photo.  Abby looks like a young Jenny McCarthy ...

I was talking to you.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 18, 2020, 05:39:43 PM
Gee, I hope I didn't disrupt all the Knick discussion.

I thought folks might want an Abby Hornacek update.
If you didn't ... who cares.
Now I'm sorry I didn't provide a link to the FOX NEWS banner ad with Abby Hornacek.  Seems like she has her own show or segment or whatever.

You sound like kiid telling people what is/isn't appropriate for them to post.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 18, 2020, 05:57:55 PM
No Hornacek fans here - I don't see why Abby would be of any importance.
Title: Hornacek fans
Post by: carlos123 on April 18, 2020, 06:36:55 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 18, 2020, 05:57:55 PM
No Hornacek fans here - I don't see why Abby would be of any importantance.

One never knows. Maybe BoZ is a fan.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 18, 2020, 06:54:10 PM
Not especially.  Actually barely remember Abby.

Otherwise, Rebecca Haarlow mostly rubs me the wrong way.
Maybe I just miss Tina Cervasio.  She seemed local and like a genuine Knick fan.  When Haarlow first started she would regularly botch her few lines.  Now she's better, just mechanical and boring.  Haarlow worked at Fox Sports for a time.
Actually I always liked Jill Martin, but she was given mostly inane things to do.
Title: Hornacek fans
Post by: carlos123 on April 18, 2020, 09:34:56 PM
I meant fan of Jeff, not Abby.
Title: How about some Fizdale
Post by: Kam on April 18, 2020, 09:51:08 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C95pynHUwAA-UpU.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 19, 2020, 08:12:06 AM
Didn't like Fizz before he came.  His development of yute and tanking grew on me.

Hornacek was put in a bad spot.  He was Phil's 2nd/3rd choice, after Fish fried and Rambo wasn't courageous enough.  Horny was tasked with implementing Phil's beloved but decrepit system.  And then had to try to assert himself as the front office began to crumble.  All the while with Phil's man Rambo keeping an eye on things and reporting back to Phil.

No players from Horny's first season are still on the Knix, and only Franc & Dot -- rooks then -- are still here from two years ago, Hornacek's 2nd season.

Knix burn through a lot of players and coaches (and these days front office execs too).

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 19, 2020, 12:25:27 PM
Players have to achieve - or they are "burned through".


Barrett stays.

Robinson - for big bucks - stays.

This year's first pick - stays.

Harkless - if signed more than 2 years - I put in the STAYS column


(Randle is out as a building block - since I have seen evidence we may deal him)


All other bets are off.


Need 8 more base (first team) guys - let's start building.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 19, 2020, 12:50:33 PM
Players achieve better with continuity and familiarity with each other and system.  And I've long been of the opinion most Knix would look better with a starting quality PG as well.

The churn is partly a sign of not having the right players, and partly a symptom of being a poorly organized team without a coherent strategy.

Franc & Dot as the longest tenured Knix says a lot, methinks.
Title: Simply the worst possible scenario
Post by: Kam on April 22, 2020, 10:26:12 PM
https://www.si.com/nba/knicks/news/knicks-realistic-offseason (https://www.si.com/nba/knicks/news/knicks-realistic-offseason)

CP3 and we have to give away picks instead of receive them?  LMAO!

Kevin Love or Demarr Derozan because the Knicks need a name?

Wow. Same old Knicks.
Title: Re: Simply the worst possible scenario
Post by: facilitatorn on April 22, 2020, 10:54:18 PM
Quote from: Kam on April 22, 2020, 10:26:12 PM
https://www.si.com/nba/knicks/news/knicks-realistic-offseason (https://www.si.com/nba/knicks/news/knicks-realistic-offseason)

CP3 and we have to give away picks instead of receive them?  LMAO!

Kevin Love or Demarr Derozan because the Knicks need a name?

Wow. Same old Knicks.

Still hoping none of that actually happens.
Title: Leon+Brock = RoseAller
Post by: Kam on April 23, 2020, 01:36:09 PM

Brock Aller, a longtime Cavaliers executive and confidant of owner Dan Gilbert, has agreed to join the Knicks front office in a high-ranking position, sources told the Daily News.

Barring anything unforeseen, Aller’s hiring is expected soon. It will be the first major move from new president Leon Rose, who took over about two weeks before the coronavirus shutdown. Aller, known as a capologist, served as a personal assistant to Gilbert for 10 years before a promotion in 2017 to senior director of basketball operations.

The Knicks asked and received permission to interview Aller prior to the coronavirus shutdown, according to sources. He was “instrumental” in the Cavaliers trade with the Knicks for JR Smith and Iman Shumpert in 2015, according to Gilbert. At the time, Smith was a client of Rose, the longtime agent at CAA.

“(Aller)'s probably one of the finer capologists in the league,” Gilbert told Cleveland.com in 2017. "He knows more about the cap than probably PricewaterhouseCoopers knows about the IRS code. He lives with the cap, with the collective bargaining agreement.

“He comes up with ideas on things that the league has never heard of, they have to go into their committees to check if it's OK or not. He's sort of a savant with this. He's a space-creator, the kind of space that (Cavs GM Koby Altman) will need in the cap. He was involved in probably every trade the last few years in a creative sense.”
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 23, 2020, 02:14:35 PM
So some sports writer with lots of downtime went through 3 scenarios if Pippen was traded before the Bulls 2nd threepeat was complete.

One fantasy has Pip traded to PHX in 1995.  Jordan then signing with NYK to team up with his bud PE33 (https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/what-if-the-bulls-had-traded-scottie-pippen-exploring-the-three-blockbusters-trades-that-never-happened/).   2 titles, etc.

Quote
Sensing the need for a big-name coach for their eventual pursuit of Jordan, the Knicks bring Chuck Daly, his former Olympic coach, out of retirement in March after they fire Don Nelson. Daly vouches for another big-name acquisition, Dennis Rodman, whom he knows from their time together in Detroit. The Knicks trade Anthony Mason and Brad Lohaus for Rodman, still in San Antonio, rather than Larry Johnson as they did in reality.

The loaded Knicks win back-to-back championships in 1997 and 1998. Jordan plays for two more seasons, but New York's aging roster doesn't allow it to contend any longer. Ewing retires as a Knick, and eventually the team builds a statue in his honor outside of Madison Square Garden. Jordan is hailed as the Reggie Jackson of his era, a legend who may have won elsewhere, but would forever be associated with New York.

Jordan may have changed teams in the wild summer of 1996 in this scenario, but Shaq stays put. Having won back-to-back championships in Orlando, Shaq sees no reason to leave. The Lakers pursue Jordan, who prefers New York due to his close friendships with Ewing and Charles Oakley, and Alonzo Mourning, who ultimately remains with the Heat. The Lakers settle for Dikembe Mutombo. After eight years of coming up short in the hunt for a title, Kobe Bryant leaves the Lakers to try his hand at reviving the Los Angeles Clippers.

In this alternate reality, Jackson leaves the Bulls a year after Jordan and lands with the Philadelphia 76ers. While Allen Iverson bristles at the constraints of the triangle offense, the Eastern Conference simply doesn't have any other team capable of filling the power vacuum left behind by Jordan's retirement and the aging of fellow contenders like the Heat and Pacers. Philadelphia reaches the Finals in 2001, but are vanquished by Tim Duncan's San Antonio Spurs, who win four of five titles from 1999-2003 without the Lakers standing in their way. Indiana claims the 2000 title, which many consider asterisked due to Duncan's meniscus injury. With additional championships in 2005, 2007 and 2014, Duncan retires with seven in total and a legitimate argument for the title of greatest player of all-time.
Title: Re: Simply the worst possible scenario
Post by: chipstern on April 23, 2020, 02:34:00 PM
Quote from: Kam on April 22, 2020, 10:26:12 PM
https://www.si.com/nba/knicks/news/knicks-realistic-offseason (https://www.si.com/nba/knicks/news/knicks-realistic-offseason)

CP3 and we have to give away picks instead of receive them?  LMAO!

Kevin Love or Demarr Derozan because the Knicks need a name?

Wow. Same old Knicks.

You mean....

You mean same old dumbfuck too much time on their hands sitting atound a camp fire in an intense circle jerk than pcosting on their pathetic blog impatient clueless brain dead Knicks Fans. 
Title: Re: Simply the worst possible scenario
Post by: chipstern on April 23, 2020, 02:35:42 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 22, 2020, 10:54:18 PM
Quote from: Kam on April 22, 2020, 10:26:12 PM
https://www.si.com/nba/knicks/news/knicks-realistic-offseason (https://www.si.com/nba/knicks/news/knicks-realistic-offseason)

CP3 and we have to give away picks instead of receive them?  LMAO!

Kevin Love or Demarr Derozan because the Knicks need a name?

Wow. Same old Knicks.

Still hoping none of that actually happens.

Exhale.
Title: Re: Simply the worst possible scenario
Post by: facilitatorn on April 23, 2020, 04:25:12 PM
Quote from: chipstern on April 23, 2020, 02:35:42 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 22, 2020, 10:54:18 PM
Quote from: Kam on April 22, 2020, 10:26:12 PM
https://www.si.com/nba/knicks/news/knicks-realistic-offseason (https://www.si.com/nba/knicks/news/knicks-realistic-offseason)

CP3 and we have to give away picks instead of receive them?  LMAO!

Kevin Love or Demarr Derozan because the Knicks need a name?

Wow. Same old Knicks.

Still hoping none of that actually happens.

Exhale.

These are the Knicks. I think I can hold my breath a little while longer, if it’s all the same with you...
Title: Chemistry and Practice have given way to Talent and Efficiency
Post by: Kam on April 23, 2020, 06:44:26 PM
https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2020/4/23/21229237/nba-roster-chemistry-free-agency-team-turnover (https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2020/4/23/21229237/nba-roster-chemistry-free-agency-team-turnover)

Quote
Bill Russell once wrote, “There is no time in basketball to think: ‘This has happened; this is what I must do next.’ In the amount of time it takes to think through that semicolon, it is already too late.”

Quote
“We used to return 14 out of 15 guys. Now there’s approximately 6.5 new guys per team [every season]. That’s unheard of.” - Steve Boylan

Quote
“The Spurs don’t have an advantage anymore,” Dudley said. “We all have a disadvantage. Now it’s who has the most talent. Talent is gonna win out. Talent and vets.”

Quote
As Boston Celtics head coach Brad Stevens joked, “We get three weeks to get ready for a season, then we never practice again.”

Quote
“My gut tells me that roster turnover is what’s causing the thinning of playbooks,” one western conference general manager said. “And the thinning of playbooks is what’s causing this standardization of playing style.”

Quote
Players feel it, too. “Most teams don’t do anything. Really it’s just take the ball out the basket, pick-and-roll, and run,” Rivers said. “The coaches are really here to guide you now. It’s crazy. It’s more ATO’s (after time-out plays) and out of bounds, and late clock, fourth quarter, that’s when coaching really comes in play. That’s all we go over in shootaround. Most of our stuff involves defense because our offense is fucking ridiculous, man. We don’t really do anything on offense.”

Title: Re: Simply the worst possible scenario
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 23, 2020, 08:34:51 PM
Quote from: Kam on April 22, 2020, 10:26:12 PM
https://www.si.com/nba/knicks/news/knicks-realistic-offseason (https://www.si.com/nba/knicks/news/knicks-realistic-offseason)

CP3 and we have to give away picks instead of receive them?  LMAO!

Kevin Love or Demarr Derozan because the Knicks need a name?

Wow. Same old Knicks.

I wont complain but not liking CP with DeRozen - if other options are available.

I take DeMarr over Chris if we dont draft Edwards.  If that is even out there - what would that deal look like?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 24, 2020, 01:54:59 AM
So Brock Aller is the guy who told the Cavs that offering Thompson and Love the contracts that they did would be a terrible idea? Glad he’s not in charge of our draft.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 24, 2020, 12:29:10 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 24, 2020, 01:54:59 AM
So Brock Aller is the guy who told the Cavs that offering Thompson and Love the contracts that they did would be a terrible idea? Glad he’s not in charge of our draft.

Aller, who has been with the Cavaliers since 2014 as a capologist, will have a broader role with the Knicks.
He is a financial maven coming in during a financial crisis. NBA teams face a revenue stream that has dried up completely.

NBA sources believe teams will tighten their belts on the size of front-office staffs.
Sources have indicated Aller will look to reconfigure and even streamline the Knicks’ massive scouting/basketball operations department.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 24, 2020, 01:04:32 PM
Leon Rose will make the picks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 24, 2020, 01:33:43 PM
Sure, but whose input will he get.  And more importantly in future years if the scouting dept gets chopped.

DeRozan makes zero sense for these Knix.
We need 3-point shooting, ballhandling, passing, D.
Don't need another 2-point shooter who likes to get to the rim.

And he'd totally be in RJB's way.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 24, 2020, 03:10:39 PM
Sure, but whose input will he get. 


Everyone's

I would guess 3-4 player names would be brought up - there would be ample discussion - trades would be considered - then Leon chooses.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 24, 2020, 03:13:58 PM
Nothing wrong with Demarr with Barrett - but I am also not sure where the hell this idea even comes from.

I will comment further only if there is any smidgen of credibility to the possible move.
Title: Same Old Knicks Fans
Post by: chipstern on April 24, 2020, 03:25:09 PM
DeMar Derozan turns 31 in August.

A very good player, and not past his prime...

But

BUT

We have RJ Barrett. 

We are presumably going to keep Reggie Bullock. 

We MIGHT keep Damyean Dotson. 

I mean, WHAT THE FUCK?

And I love Chris Paul, but I am already on record as saying, NO.  He is still a great player, unquestionably,

Chris Paul is very tempting, not just for his epic, still formidable skill set, but for this YARD DOG Attitude, which would benefit any team, as it did the Thunder this past season.

But I would submit that the Thunder had a more advanced, mature roster, and an coherent system in place.

Also, his contract essentially takes away all of our cap flexibility, either for other free agents or for trades, and cap flex was basically our only real takeaway from the Porzingis trade, besides the two late first rounders we will glom from Dallas. 

Assuming we picked up all options, the numbers work straight up for Julius Randle, Bobby Portis and Elfrid Payton. 

Of course, then we have essentially gutted our front court to get a lead guard with whom exactly to pass to? 

We could address PG in the draft or with Fred Van Vleet in Free Agency. 

But concocting trades as I have seem promoted for the likes of Kevin Love, DeRozan, Paul make no sense given the youthful core of our roster.

We tried the veterans route this past season, and the youth must be served the season before. 

A lot depends on whether Miller or Thibs is our coach going forward...if the latter, will Thibs make a gesture in the direction of the new analytics, will he play youth, will he create a rotation beyond his accustomed 8-man squad, with heavy 35-plus minutes going forward. 

I recognize that given my rose colored and intemperate past, I have little cred, but I am of a mind moving forward to make a run at Van Vleet, and depending on draft position, take the best available talent, and not reach for a PG at all costs. 

Anyway, happy isolation Knicks fans. Who knows if we will even have a Yankees, Giants, Knicks season. 
Title: To Dream The Impossible Dream
Post by: chipstern on April 24, 2020, 03:41:02 PM
OK

Take this notion with, not a grain of salt, but an ocean of sea salt. 

Anthony Davis's Los Angeles just went up for sale. 

He would seem to have found a very nice niche in LA, with or without LeBron. 

Anyway, I am going to put some lotion on my Johnson, take out some Kleenex, and imagine an alternative universe where Julius Randle returns us some assets/cap space, and Anthony Davis plays power forward next to his home boy Mitchell Robinson. 

THAT WOULD BE A MONEY SHOT. 

PS: Kiid, why would be draft Edwards, as talented as he is, with Barrett.  I am kind of intrigued by the all-around game of Tyrese Haliburton among the available PGs, though Ball and Anthony and the French kid Killian Hayes all have some upside, though we might be a tad gun shy about the French kid at this point...Ball shapes up as a great facilitator but with questions about his defense and his jumper, while Anthony shapes up as an offensive fireplug, but with questions as to his skills as a facilitator.  WHO THE FUCK KNOWS.  Irrespective of our ultimate lottery position, this draft is such a crap shoot.  Okongwu and Wiseman beckon among Uber-Bigs, though how would that impact Mitchell...do they have skills that would translate to the 4?  Then there are PF Toppin and SF Vidja to be heard from, and how MIGHT they fit, and in what way would that impact Brazdeikis and Knox and Harkless and two-way contracter Kenny Wooten, not to mention our present commitment to Randle, the latter having made strides at better figuring out the team game and finding his jumper at season's end. 

PPS: I would venture that presently only Mitchel Robinson and RJ Barrett are untouchables. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 24, 2020, 03:44:46 PM
We have RJ Barrett.

We are presumably going to keep Reggie Bullock.

We MIGHT keep Damyean Dotson.

I mean, WHAT THE FUCK?



Degrees


Knicks need a bucket filler - period.


And dont make me keep reminding you Barrett is a perfect 3.



DAMN - got sucked in - I said I wouldn't comment further on DDR
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 24, 2020, 03:47:52 PM
"Ball has some upside"



heh



Twas a long rant, Chip

First off - dont figure guys like Iggy and Dot and even Bullock when deciding who to go after in FA/trade/draft.  Think TIERS - then let the others fall in.

As far as point guards go I see you have joined the Haliburton brigade.

I will trust management.  And I know they favor Ball and Anthony.  Should everyone be gone when we pick - God help us.  But yes, I still like 2 bigs.  Vernon Carey and Precious Achiuwa.

Edwards?Like I said - has some LeBron in him.  Could be a real do it all beast.  Are we dealing up to 1 for that?  I doubt it - but I like him fine at that spot.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 24, 2020, 03:55:17 PM
Yeah - I had earlier agreed with you on the 2 untouchables.  I think I added a re-signed Harkless to form a 3-man core. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 24, 2020, 05:52:09 PM
I like Precious as well. It will take some time to smooth out his game.

Okongwu has the goods to play PF. He can really defend in space and has a workable jumper that he used more as a HS senior than as a college freshman.

Maxey is going to be better at doing Anthony things than Cole Anthony, if that’s what you want.

Who is the bigger defensive risk, Ball or Toppin?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 24, 2020, 06:57:54 PM
I get Austin Rivers vibes from Cole Anthony.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 24, 2020, 07:31:57 PM
Austin is 6’4” and is switchable somewhat down to SFs. You can’t play Cole that way. Getting an Austin Rivers where some team will probably draft Cole would be excellent value, unless he gets picked up in the Lottery. Offensively I see a basis for comparison.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 24, 2020, 07:49:21 PM
Nah, man - Cole much more of an offensive force.  Just more dynamic.

Great talent.

Yeah, I'll take him in NY.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 24, 2020, 08:08:15 PM
One 4/20 mock update


https://www.nbadraft.net/nba-mock-drafts/


If it goes down this way give me Anthony at 6, yes

Then at 25, a big


https://www.nbadraft.net/players/udoka-azubuike/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 24, 2020, 08:22:52 PM
With the five players they have selected prior gone and us picking 6, I like seeing Okoro Okongwu and Hayes still on the board. One of them would be the pick. Nasmith with the Clippers pick is fine with me. I like Scrubb as well in the second round, though I’d take Jalen Smith if available as he is in this mock.
Title: 1999
Post by: carlos123 on April 24, 2020, 09:50:56 PM
With Perry likely on his way out, how about he does another Frederick Weis?
I mean, supposedly the current GM and the current coach, also likely on his way out, are supposed to make the picks.
Maybe just what Dolan's Knicks deserve.
Title: Re: 1999
Post by: Kam on April 24, 2020, 09:59:59 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on April 24, 2020, 09:50:56 PM
With Perry likely on his way out, how about he does another Frederick Weis?
I mean, supposedly the current GM and the current coach, also likely on his way out, are supposed to make the picks.
Maybe just what Dolan's Knicks deserve.

No GM would purposefully tank a pick, knowing his reputation as a talent evaluator is on the line.
Title: Re: 1999
Post by: carlos123 on April 24, 2020, 11:46:04 PM
Quote from: Kam on April 24, 2020, 09:59:59 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on April 24, 2020, 09:50:56 PM
With Perry likely on his way out, how about he does another Frederick Weis?
I mean, supposedly the current GM and the current coach, also likely on his way out, are supposed to make the picks.
Maybe just what Dolan's Knicks deserve.

No GM would purposefully tank a pick, knowing his reputation as a talent evaluator is on the line.

Oh, so you think Grunfeld/Tapscott thought Weis was better than Artest.

Interesting 🧐
Title: Re: 1999
Post by: Kam on April 24, 2020, 11:51:30 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on April 24, 2020, 11:46:04 PM
Quote from: Kam on April 24, 2020, 09:59:59 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on April 24, 2020, 09:50:56 PM
With Perry likely on his way out, how about he does another Frederick Weis?
I mean, supposedly the current GM and the current coach, also likely on his way out, are supposed to make the picks.
Maybe just what Dolan's Knicks deserve.

No GM would purposefully tank a pick, knowing his reputation as a talent evaluator is on the line.

Oh, so you think Grunfeld/Tapscott thought Weis was better than Artest.

Interesting 🧐

Tapscott never got a GM job again.  I don't think Scott Perry wants to follow in those footsteps.
Title: Re: 1999
Post by: carlos123 on April 25, 2020, 12:25:46 AM
Quote from: Kam on April 24, 2020, 11:51:30 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on April 24, 2020, 11:46:04 PM
Quote from: Kam on April 24, 2020, 09:59:59 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on April 24, 2020, 09:50:56 PM
With Perry likely on his way out, how about he does another Frederick Weis?
I mean, supposedly the current GM and the current coach, also likely on his way out, are supposed to make the picks.
Maybe just what Dolan's Knicks deserve.

No GM would purposefully tank a pick, knowing his reputation as a talent evaluator is on the line.

Oh, so you think Grunfeld/Tapscott thought Weis was better than Artest.

Interesting 🧐

Tapscott never got a GM job again.  I don't think Scott Perry wants to follow in those footsteps.

Grunfeld did
Title: Re: 1999
Post by: Kam on April 25, 2020, 12:40:04 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on April 25, 2020, 12:25:46 AM
Quote from: Kam on April 24, 2020, 11:51:30 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on April 24, 2020, 11:46:04 PM
Quote from: Kam on April 24, 2020, 09:59:59 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on April 24, 2020, 09:50:56 PM
With Perry likely on his way out, how about he does another Frederick Weis?
I mean, supposedly the current GM and the current coach, also likely on his way out, are supposed to make the picks.
Maybe just what Dolan's Knicks deserve.

No GM would purposefully tank a pick, knowing his reputation as a talent evaluator is on the line.

Oh, so you think Grunfeld/Tapscott thought Weis was better than Artest.

Interesting 🧐

Tapscott never got a GM job again.  I don't think Scott Perry wants to follow in those footsteps.

Grunfeld did

Tapscott made the pick. Why are you bringing up Grunfeld?
Title: 1999
Post by: carlos123 on April 25, 2020, 01:31:39 AM
Tapscott’s boss.
Besides, screwing the team that’s pushing you out may prove irresistible when a couple of morons is taking over for you.
Title: Re: 1999
Post by: Kam on April 25, 2020, 01:42:24 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on April 25, 2020, 01:31:39 AM
Tapscott’s boss.
Besides, screwing the team that’s pushing you out may prove irresistible when a couple of morons is taking over for you.

Grunfeld was removed on April 21 of that season. At the time of his removal from his general manager post, during the 1998–99 season, the team had a 21–21 record and were on the verge of not making the playoffs.


https://nypost.com/1999/07/01/knicks-take-big-gamble-shock-draft-by-choosing-weis-7-2-french-center/ (https://nypost.com/1999/07/01/knicks-take-big-gamble-shock-draft-by-choosing-weis-7-2-french-center/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 25, 2020, 02:46:33 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 24, 2020, 08:08:15 PM
One 4/20 mock update
https://www.nbadraft.net/nba-mock-drafts/

Who knows if the Knix pick 6.

But the nice thing about that mock is that only one PG (Ball) would be off the board, and we'd be free to choose between Ty Halubut, Cole Ant, and Hey Killjoy the Frenchie. 

Then again I was pleased we had a choice of Franc/Jr. Smith one year; and that we had a choice of Bridges x 2, Knox and Porter Jr another year.  Both times we took a chance and the results haven't been great.  But the other choices haven't exactly lit it up.  But both bridges look pretty solid if unspectacular, while Porter still retains the Upside aura and might be the best.  While Knox remains a project.

I'd be fine with taking BPA and not a PG if the brass think someone still around has all-star potential.  Or the PG's don't measure up.  The Israeli kid sounds intriguing (I haven't seen him), but likely will be gone, unless we're in the Top 5.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 25, 2020, 04:30:15 AM
I wouldn’t take the ball out of Frank’s hands to give it to anyone besides Ball in this draft. And then I’d move RJ to the three and keep Frank on the floor as second PG and to cover the primary on the other end.

Killian Hayes and Ty Halliburton have a chance to be rotation worthy and may grow into something over time.

I think this draft may be better for adding depth to the frontcourt that brings defense and athleticism alongside Mitch and possibly Wooten.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 25, 2020, 07:14:07 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 25, 2020, 04:30:15 AM
I wouldn’t take the ball out of Frank’s hands to give it to anyone besides Ball in this draft. And then I’d move RJ to the three and keep Frank on the floor as second PG and to cover the primary on the other end.

I might agree with the 2nd part (positions), but who wants the ball in Franc's hands?  He can barely dribble upcourt, passes when 30' out.  Lets Orange&Blue Julius bring the ball upcourt.  Franc far from being a legit (as opposed to default) starting PG.

Quote
Killian Hayes and Ty Halliburton have a chance to be rotation worthy and may grow into something over time.

We desperately need shooting.  Seems like Ty Stick could provide that. 
And if he can play Point, then it'd be a good pick.

Quote
I think this draft may be better for adding depth to the frontcourt that brings defense and athleticism alongside Mitch and possibly Wooten.

Since the only draft pick we hit on now plays in Dallas, we really need at minimum to nab a starter. 

PG and shooting should be prioritized over frontcourt D.
I'd be wary of taking a PG at #25.  Though Tre Jones might be solid enough.
But seems like the 25 pick could net us a shooter like Saddiq Bey or Vassell.
Then again, I'm not a draftnik and really don't know these guys.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on April 25, 2020, 08:46:38 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 25, 2020, 07:14:07 AM
Let's Orange&Blue Julius bring the ball upcourt. 

No. Just fucking no. I'd rather inject lysol, drink beach, and pour ammonia up my ass than see that again one time in my life.

In fact. The saving grace of the season suspension was I didn't have to see that any more.

••• can't even believe you joke about that ish...https://streamable.com/y3ip2 (https://streamable.com/y3ip2)

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 25, 2020, 12:49:01 PM
No doubt in my mind we make every attempt to trade up pre draft.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 25, 2020, 06:35:14 PM
http://nypost.com/2020/04/25/knicks-mailbag-the-case-for-keeping-mike-miller-next-season/ (http://nypost.com/2020/04/25/knicks-mailbag-the-case-for-keeping-mike-miller-next-season/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on April 25, 2020, 10:14:56 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 25, 2020, 06:35:14 PM
http://nypost.com/2020/04/25/knicks-mailbag-the-case-for-keeping-mike-miller-next-season/ (http://nypost.com/2020/04/25/knicks-mailbag-the-case-for-keeping-mike-miller-next-season/)

"Miller doesn’t have the support of new branding consultant Steve Stoute"

O Lord, have mercy!!!
Title: Re: 1999
Post by: carlos123 on April 25, 2020, 10:19:09 PM
Quote from: Kam on April 25, 2020, 01:42:24 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on April 25, 2020, 01:31:39 AM
Tapscott’s boss.
Besides, screwing the team that’s pushing you out may prove irresistible when a couple of morons is taking over for you.

Grunfeld was removed on April 21 of that season. At the time of his removal from his general manager post, during the 1998–99 season, the team had a 21–21 record and were on the verge of not making the playoffs.


https://nypost.com/1999/07/01/knicks-take-big-gamble-shock-draft-by-choosing-weis-7-2-french-center/ (https://nypost.com/1999/07/01/knicks-take-big-gamble-shock-draft-by-choosing-weis-7-2-french-center/)

Ok Kamster, Maybe Perry will pull a Tapscott as a parting gift to Rose/Stoute/"capologist" (the new guy from Cleveland hired by Rose).

Who's going to hire Perry anyway?
Title: Re: 1999
Post by: Kam on April 25, 2020, 10:22:14 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on April 25, 2020, 10:19:09 PM
Quote from: Kam on April 25, 2020, 01:42:24 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on April 25, 2020, 01:31:39 AM
Tapscott’s boss.
Besides, screwing the team that’s pushing you out may prove irresistible when a couple of morons is taking over for you.

Grunfeld was removed on April 21 of that season. At the time of his removal from his general manager post, during the 1998–99 season, the team had a 21–21 record and were on the verge of not making the playoffs.


https://nypost.com/1999/07/01/knicks-take-big-gamble-shock-draft-by-choosing-weis-7-2-french-center/ (https://nypost.com/1999/07/01/knicks-take-big-gamble-shock-draft-by-choosing-weis-7-2-french-center/)

Ok Kamster, Maybe Perry will pull a Tapscott as a parting gift to Rose/Stoute/"capologist" (the new guy from Cleveland hired by Rose).

Who's going to hire Perry anyway?

I give up. OK Carlos. Perry will purposefully sandbag the pick because he has nothing better to do.
Title: Re: 1999
Post by: carlos123 on April 25, 2020, 10:29:49 PM
Quote from: Kam on April 25, 2020, 10:22:14 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on April 25, 2020, 10:19:09 PM
Quote from: Kam on April 25, 2020, 01:42:24 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on April 25, 2020, 01:31:39 AM
Tapscott’s boss.
Besides, screwing the team that’s pushing you out may prove irresistible when a couple of morons is taking over for you.

Grunfeld was removed on April 21 of that season. At the time of his removal from his general manager post, during the 1998–99 season, the team had a 21–21 record and were on the verge of not making the playoffs.


https://nypost.com/1999/07/01/knicks-take-big-gamble-shock-draft-by-choosing-weis-7-2-french-center/ (https://nypost.com/1999/07/01/knicks-take-big-gamble-shock-draft-by-choosing-weis-7-2-french-center/)

Ok Kamster, Maybe Perry will pull a Tapscott as a parting gift to Rose/Stoute/"capologist" (the new guy from Cleveland hired by Rose).

Who's going to hire Perry anyway?

I give up. OK Carlos. Perry will purposefully sandbag the pick because he has nothing better to do.

No, not because he has nothing better to do, but ...

Quote from: carlos123 on April 25, 2020, 01:31:39 AM
..., screwing the team that’s pushing you out may prove irresistible when a couple of morons is taking over for you.
Title: Re: 1999
Post by: Kam on April 26, 2020, 12:12:01 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on April 25, 2020, 10:29:49 PM
Quote from: Kam on April 25, 2020, 10:22:14 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on April 25, 2020, 10:19:09 PM
Quote from: Kam on April 25, 2020, 01:42:24 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on April 25, 2020, 01:31:39 AM
Tapscott’s boss.
Besides, screwing the team that’s pushing you out may prove irresistible when a couple of morons is taking over for you.

Grunfeld was removed on April 21 of that season. At the time of his removal from his general manager post, during the 1998–99 season, the team had a 21–21 record and were on the verge of not making the playoffs.


https://nypost.com/1999/07/01/knicks-take-big-gamble-shock-draft-by-choosing-weis-7-2-french-center/ (https://nypost.com/1999/07/01/knicks-take-big-gamble-shock-draft-by-choosing-weis-7-2-french-center/)

Ok Kamster, Maybe Perry will pull a Tapscott as a parting gift to Rose/Stoute/"capologist" (the new guy from Cleveland hired by Rose).

Who's going to hire Perry anyway?

I give up. OK Carlos. Perry will purposefully sandbag the pick because he has nothing better to do.

No, not because he has nothing better to do, but ...

Quote from: carlos123 on April 25, 2020, 01:31:39 AM
..., screwing the team that’s pushing you out may prove irresistible when a couple of morons is taking over for you.

Why would Rose allow that to happen?  Either Rose believes Perry is the guy to make the picks, which means he believes in retaining Perry, or he finds someone else to make the picks. 
Title: More 1999
Post by: carlos123 on April 26, 2020, 02:09:07 AM
Rose believes Perry is the guy to make the picks, but Perry knows he’s gonna be replaced.

Don’t you realize this is the Dolan Knocks?

How did 1999 happen?
Title: Re: 1999
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 26, 2020, 05:06:46 PM
Quote from: Kam on April 26, 2020, 12:12:01 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on April 25, 2020, 10:29:49 PM
Quote from: Kam on April 25, 2020, 10:22:14 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on April 25, 2020, 10:19:09 PM
Quote from: Kam on April 25, 2020, 01:42:24 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on April 25, 2020, 01:31:39 AM
Tapscott’s boss.
Besides, screwing the team that’s pushing you out may prove irresistible when a couple of morons is taking over for you.

Grunfeld was removed on April 21 of that season. At the time of his removal from his general manager post, during the 1998–99 season, the team had a 21–21 record and were on the verge of not making the playoffs.


https://nypost.com/1999/07/01/knicks-take-big-gamble-shock-draft-by-choosing-weis-7-2-french-center/ (https://nypost.com/1999/07/01/knicks-take-big-gamble-shock-draft-by-choosing-weis-7-2-french-center/)

Ok Kamster, Maybe Perry will pull a Tapscott as a parting gift to Rose/Stoute/"capologist" (the new guy from Cleveland hired by Rose).

Who's going to hire Perry anyway?

I give up. OK Carlos. Perry will purposefully sandbag the pick because he has nothing better to do.

No, not because he has nothing better to do, but ...

Quote from: carlos123 on April 25, 2020, 01:31:39 AM
..., screwing the team that’s pushing you out may prove irresistible when a couple of morons is taking over for you.

Why would Rose allow that to happen?  Either Rose believes Perry is the guy to make the picks, which means he believes in retaining Perry, or he finds someone else to make the picks.

Rose is making the picks

Will he possibly pick the player Perry has suggested?  Sure.  They could be on the same player, especially picking as high as we are.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 26, 2020, 05:08:40 PM
Rose believes Perry is the guy to make the picks, but Perry knows he’s gonna be replaced.


Stop already

Knicks have always been a collective voice - Perry's won't be louder than others

but then ONE GUY is responsible for the pick.
Title: Dolan's Knocks?
Post by: carlos123 on April 26, 2020, 09:51:24 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 26, 2020, 05:08:40 PM

Knicks have always been a collective voice


LMAO 😅😂🤣
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 26, 2020, 10:35:12 PM
Carlos doesn't realize how many guys are in the room when the options are being discussed

We - as usual - forgive his childlike ignorance.
Title: Thanks Chico
Post by: carlos123 on April 27, 2020, 02:08:40 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 26, 2020, 10:35:12 PM
Carlos doesn't realize how many guys are in the room when the options are being discussed

We - as usual - forgive his childlike ignorance.

Thanks for your forgiveness Chico, and as proof of my appreciation, here is your dear leader’s latest favorite medication

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/AUng1bkfcnA0yhlqbrAxINdRIeYb1t2PXTURfj1Z27DbECVtfsYyCSqCBEeqhQRTgpCgR08o7jjWW9v9hMw7YkbLVQF61GN5g6mzTC1S0Lfw1K99_hBNrpnbuStEXEMxf3OdkdRlCdGFv-EaPozhY-C_97BJOjGfNTaGHU3Jjuhvo5lavNmTUDRB2Y_wn9ND7f-dw5lSGIgzbfOsVWicuYwM5e84F95WNWh-xnMImnc45tzVR_OGRPx5i_Ibh4pbVi1BNBQ3Mafp_0nyyds2k9OhsvmvMrrhzxZRVWHEeIHlj3dQWx-yhcU3rKxqtcvHD0wqbchRvahaoG89ICYRaIO8jRIM0OnIDHDnciwnVHOjs8ISJVnPIA5lyyH3GFaSlClFAoE2hVpdbAXA8EDkBCOP0Kwg3Dy4u-rHN64W5Smx0fiCozvfXfzh-yiyN-tcBEnhlNJCPodarq5JhCz9gqqlSr-bcyAMGMpnRTe9aTErzCS5uuJS4x-dNw2ad1yjObwUG3R2XZOal17LyTOw-mS-G1Jvt50mGEPQsoRf6jh2Y42B9QIIEtHfqhMuVZW5y5VpCV_LaCXv0KNrE-eaCVdSJYhAuezBnpxN4o33TojHK2dnIlOqSlgVCMly2U6gMPuEtZCeKz9Ieoz7w1NJzAzn2j9OoBKBtWbErcDuXwCcssps3aQH3vDqBIIXnvh0JhsONutY9nEzpo2b0ymnviwOPSJv4dZeMHAmY1BvKXEAtGafjarchPQ=w1024-h669-no)
”I’ll build it a second time” EASTER! 🤣
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 27, 2020, 10:28:18 AM
Not much likely to save the next decade of Knickdom, except some fortuitous events such as winning a draft lottery or finding the next Kobe/Kawhi later down, plus a major young FA (like Luka) signing with us.

Mitch could become a quality starting C, which would be helpful.
Probably 2 or 3 years away form becoming an elite defender/rim running C.
A good piece.  Who will look better with better PG play.

RJB could become an above average starter.  Energy, hustle, physical, good driver, can get hot.  Really needs to work on developing a reliable shot.  I kind of see him as one of those guys with tools but shooting holding him back, and without the handles or passing chops to overcome that.   I seem more concerned about his D than most.  Hopefully can become an average or better starter.

If either Franc or Knox become legit starters, it's likely on their next contract  ... on another team.  And both look like bench role players.

Otherwise we don't have much to work with.  We already seem ready to move on from our big FA acquisition, Randle. 
Er ...
Not sure any team is in worse shape than NYK.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 27, 2020, 11:31:39 AM
Well that settles that.  Time to pack it in boys.  Bo has spoken.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 27, 2020, 11:45:31 AM
Make a counter-argument.

Find a team or two with less promise.

Hope left with KZ ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 27, 2020, 12:10:01 PM
I think with better supporting personnel Randle and Barrett would give opponents FITS at the (Knicks) offensive end.

We would continue to be a team that needs to outscore the opponent (read:  not rely heavily on defense, though needing key stops to win games) - at least for now .

I think we are at least a 40-win team with Payton, Ball, Barrett, Randle, Robinson, Harkless, Ntlikina and one or two more additions, and with a steady coaching staff.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 27, 2020, 12:30:31 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 27, 2020, 11:45:31 AM
Make a counter-argument.

Find a team or two with less promise.

Hope left with KZ ...

Not gonna go Negative Nancy vs Debbie Downer with you.  That's your specialty alone.
Title: We Got Bupkis
Post by: bodiddley on April 27, 2020, 01:13:51 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 27, 2020, 12:10:01 PM
I think with better supporting personnel Randle and Barrett would give opponents FITS at the (Knicks) offensive end.

Neither are consistent.  Neither have effective range.  No closer.

Quote
I think we are at least a 40-win team with Payton, Ball, Barrett, Randle, Robinson, Harkless, Ntlikina and one or two more additions, and with a steady coaching staff.

6 core guys who can't make a 3.  Must be some kind of 2010's record.

Ball would help, but likely we don't get him.
And we still need to find a steady coaching staff.

Last 6 years Knix have averaged 24.5 W's
Being negative has been = to being realistic the past half dozen years.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 27, 2020, 01:21:42 PM
Yes.  But I dont think the 24.5 win average should be mentioned as we move forward.  Has zero to do with the upcoming season
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 27, 2020, 01:53:31 PM
The last 21 games Marcus Morris played for us we were 10-11

All told, while with us MM missed 8 games, in which we won ONE.

Yes, adding just ONE player of renown and a hot rookie will do wonders.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 27, 2020, 01:55:19 PM
Ball would help, but likely we don't get him.


Should we try, by using future picks?
Title: Knick History is Bunk
Post by: bodiddley on April 27, 2020, 01:55:43 PM
Sure it's relevant.
We'll still have many of the same (not exactly winning) players on our roster.
We'll still have a lot of turnover and a new system which foster 24.5 Win seasons.
I don't see any significant break with the recent past on the horizon to change the trajectory much. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 27, 2020, 01:58:38 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 27, 2020, 01:55:19 PM
Ball would help, but likely we don't get him.
Should we try, by using future picks?

I don't know enough about Ball to make such a call.
It would have been worth it for Ja Morant.

If the brass feels Ball is a sure thing starting PG, it's probably worth moving up for. Of course it depends on Knick draft position and what else could be had there.
But damn are we desperate for a legit PG.  Could/would change our long-term outlook.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 27, 2020, 02:05:08 PM
Scoring guard.  Not necessarily the point.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 27, 2020, 02:08:41 PM
By the way, I had Barrett as a 14 point scorer first year.  He ends up at 14.3

At 19 years of age

14/5/2.5/1

How many in NBA history?

40/32/61 percentages most likely won't continue for too long
Title: Rose Or Thorns
Post by: chipstern on April 27, 2020, 02:30:09 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 26, 2020, 05:08:40 PM
Rose believes Perry is the guy to make the picks, but Perry knows he’s gonna be replaced.


Stop already

Knicks have always been a collective voice - Perry's won't be louder than others

but then ONE GUY is responsible for the pick.

Historically, this is not correct.

On his way out the door House Negro AFFIRMATIVE ED TAPSCOTT passed on a player he palpably felt to be way to Street Negro for his sensibilities, passing on hometown firebrand RON ARTEST (and another defensive stalwart whose name escapes me) to choose Frederich Weis.  In summer league the refs were experimenting with a soon to be discredited experiment in calling fouls, Weis was flabbergasted, and with what remained of the kids gonads, JVG very publicly eviscerated him. 

That being the case, while Scott Perry may be the public face of the Knicks going into the summer, YOU CAN FUCKING BELIEVE that Rose will cast the deciding vote after hearing from all of his wise men. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 27, 2020, 02:33:34 PM
Word.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 27, 2020, 03:28:18 PM
Do you think RJB had a good or successful rookie season?

The only thing encouraging about his shooting %'s is that his Home #'s were fine: 44.2% FG and 34% on 3's (with a crappy 60% FT). His Road splits were terrible.

Jan & Mar he shot 75% FT.  But also had 3 months at 56% or less.

Oddly on 8 games which were the back end of B2B's (ie zero days rest) RJB shot 45.8% on 3's and 79% FT.   After 1 day off, 34% on 3's, 60% FT in 35 games. 

In 13 games with 2 or more days rest, RJB was atrocious.
In 8 games with 2 days off, RJB was off: 33% FG / 19% on 3's / 56% FT (and I rounded all those up).  3 days off: 23% 3's & 52% FT (5 games).  Yikes.

I'm not sure what all that is about.  But his Road splits and games with extra rest make me wonder about his focus and preparation.  But it takes time to learn how to be a pro.

What's odd is RJB started the season 7-13 on 3's in his first 3 games.  In G4 when he missed a pair of 3's, he put up 19 / 15 & 5 in NYK's first W of the year v. the Bulls.  After those first 3 games, RJB shot 30.4% on 3's the rest of the season.

Early season, RJB was bullying smaller G's for profit.  Teams adjusted.
RJB is a good athlete with decent skills.  Hopefully he works hard and develops well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 27, 2020, 03:41:06 PM
I don't micro analyze it like that.

YES is the answer.

But he will need to get better.  I project that he will.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 27, 2020, 03:57:04 PM
Barrett's 3-shooting was much more effective than his 2s.

189 points on 197 attempts   (0.96)

vs

458 on 530 attempts from 2 pt range   (0.86)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 27, 2020, 04:00:15 PM
4.5-5 3 attempts per game for Barrett next year (took 3.5 this year) - at a 34% clip

And he ticks up to 16.5 ppg at age 20.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 27, 2020, 04:27:39 PM
I don't see it.
Unlikely that RJB could increase his 3FGA's by nearly 50% and up his %.

The other problem is that you really can't afford to have a guy shoot 5 treys a game if he's shooting around 32%.

He should work on his corner 3's.  Where he was poor.  Shortest 3-pointer and you often have more open space.

Without checking stats, it seemed his drives were effective, so his midrange 2's must have been horrendous, which is what I recall.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 27, 2020, 04:46:56 PM
Unlikely that RJB could increase his 3FGA's by nearly 50% and up his %.


less than 30%
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 27, 2020, 04:47:34 PM
We dont want RJ in the corner
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 27, 2020, 08:56:39 PM
I’m for totally eschewing guards in this class. Okongwu, Killian Tille, and Naji Marshall would do fine for me. Let Bobby and Wayne go

Mitch Okongwu Taj
Randle Tille Knox
Harkless Ignas Marshall
RJ Bullock
Frank Payton DSJ

That is before approaching free agency with a pocket full of cash.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on April 28, 2020, 12:12:13 AM
The only reason we have less promise than any other team has nothing to do with the roster. It's James Dolan.

His track record is impeccably awful. No other team has him. Surely the greatest disadvantage in pro sports.

That said, there's no particular reason a turn around can't happen very quickly, should Rose be a Rose. This ain't football. A couple of players turn a roster. Mitch, RJ, a draft hit, the right free agent, Woot there it is.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 28, 2020, 12:50:34 AM
Was once a wise man.

Pitino --------Riley ----------Van Gundy------

even Mike D....

Knicks have lacked on court leaders since '99 group. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on April 28, 2020, 01:09:38 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 28, 2020, 12:50:34 AM
Was once a wise man.

Pitino --------Riley ----------Van Gundy------

even Mike D....

Knicks have lacked on court leaders since '99 group.

When Larry Johnson finally said OUCH, that was it. 

JVG bailed shortly thereafter.

Coincidence? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 28, 2020, 04:54:38 AM
As a coach it’s good to have a lead dog who wants to play the way you want to play and the gravitas to get everyone else on board. LJ was certainly that for JVG.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on April 28, 2020, 12:03:17 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 28, 2020, 04:54:38 AM
As a coach it’s good to have a lead dog who wants to play the way you want to play and the gravitas to get everyone else on board. LJ was certainly that for JVG.

Who then among our puppies might emerge as a leader for these Knicks, be it for Miller or Thibs? 

Hard to project, LJ being such a singular, street cred kind of cat.

Oak once said something to the effect that you could tell LJ had eaten his share of soup with a fork. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 28, 2020, 12:54:25 PM
You also need multipliers, underlings who will follow and call out guys who do not.

Ward, Harper, Billups....

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on April 28, 2020, 02:27:49 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 28, 2020, 12:54:25 PM
You also need multipliers, underlings who will follow and call out guys who do not.

Ward, Harper, Billups....

Charlie Ward.

A criminally underappreciated Knick.

A Gutsy, Selfless LEADER. 

An indelible memory etched in my mind, is of Ward planting his feet, gritting his teeth and of taking a charge from Shaq that knocked him into the photographer's scrum behind the basket.  OFFENSIVE FOUL.

Charlie got up like this was an everyday occurrence, but I mean, My....GOD.

PS: One of the reasons I hope we have a 50/50 shot at Van Vleet.  Not just skills, but STONES. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 28, 2020, 02:55:55 PM
Quote from: chipstern on April 28, 2020, 02:27:49 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 28, 2020, 12:54:25 PM
You also need multipliers, underlings who will follow and call out guys who do not.

Ward, Harper, Billups....

Charlie Ward.

A criminally underappreciated Knick.

A Gutsy, Selfless LEADER. 

An indelible memory etched in my mind, is of Ward planting his feet, gritting his teeth and of taking a charge from Shaq that knocked him into the photographer's scrum behind the basket.  OFFENSIVE FOUL.

Charlie got up like this was an everyday occurrence, but I mean, My....GOD.

PS: One of the reasons I hope we have a 50/50 shot at Van Vleet.  Not just skills, but STONES.

That's the Heisman in him.  Trained to take hits.

(https://wp-media.beliefnet.com/sites/256/2014/01/CharlieWardHeisman.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 28, 2020, 03:46:09 PM
PS: One of the reasons I hope we have a 50/50 shot at Van Vleet.  Not just skills, but STONES.



Yeah....


 a little worried though that FVV may be a system guy, looking real good in a perfect offensive scheme and with perfect personnel for him currently

Thus

I am out if he prices himself out (big $$/big years)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on April 28, 2020, 05:46:34 PM
Quote from: Kam on April 28, 2020, 02:55:55 PM
Quote from: chipstern on April 28, 2020, 02:27:49 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 28, 2020, 12:54:25 PM
You also need multipliers, underlings who will follow and call out guys who do not.

Ward, Harper, Billups....

Charlie Ward.

A criminally underappreciated Knick.

A Gutsy, Selfless LEADER. 

An indelible memory etched in my mind, is of Ward planting his feet, gritting his teeth and of taking a charge from Shaq that knocked him into the photographer's scrum behind the basket.  OFFENSIVE FOUL.

Charlie got up like this was an everyday occurrence, but I mean, My....GOD.

PS: One of the reasons I hope we have a 50/50 shot at Van Vleet.  Not just skills, but STONES.

That's the Heisman in him.  Trained to take hits.

(https://wp-media.beliefnet.com/sites/256/2014/01/CharlieWardHeisman.jpg)

Great Picture.

"Grandma, what long fingers you have..."
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 28, 2020, 09:11:43 PM
Bucher on the Warriors

"There is no guy you'd give up the No. 1 pick and Andrew Wiggins for," says the Western Conference executive. "I don't know that that guy is available. Besides, if you do go all in and trade Wiggins and the pick for some 30-year-old star, now you're looking at your core all aging out at the same time. You don't want to wake up and find yourself like the Celtics."





https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2888941-dubs-dynasty-plot-20
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 29, 2020, 04:09:47 PM
http://hoopshype.com/2020/04/27/new-york-knicks-offseason/ (http://hoopshype.com/2020/04/27/new-york-knicks-offseason/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on April 29, 2020, 05:04:20 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 29, 2020, 04:09:47 PM
http://hoopshype.com/2020/04/27/new-york-knicks-offseason/ (http://hoopshype.com/2020/04/27/new-york-knicks-offseason/)

Pretty nonsensical projections by a C- blogger. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 29, 2020, 06:25:54 PM
Ok. I’ll give you something real to talk about instead,

http://knickerblogger.net/ny-post-scott-perry-keeping-knicks-gm-job-under-leon-rose/ (http://knickerblogger.net/ny-post-scott-perry-keeping-knicks-gm-job-under-leon-rose/)

I like it. Hoping they keep Miller and his staff on the same principle.
Title: Not exactly a ringing endorsement
Post by: Kam on April 29, 2020, 07:49:53 PM
1 year deal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 29, 2020, 08:33:59 PM
Makes sense. He holds plenty of Knicks information


And wont be the decision maker anyway.
Title: Lauri Markkanen
Post by: chipstern on April 29, 2020, 08:34:44 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 29, 2020, 06:25:54 PM
Ok. I’ll give you something real to talk about instead,

http://knickerblogger.net/ny-post-scott-perry-keeping-knicks-gm-job-under-leon-rose/ (http://knickerblogger.net/ny-post-scott-perry-keeping-knicks-gm-job-under-leon-rose/)

I like it. Hoping they keep Miller and his staff on the same principle.

I like the idea of Thibs, but it makes some sense.  Miller did a pretty good job and is low maintenance. 

Some continuity moving forward.

And hopefully baby steps in our collective development, instead of lurching from Plan Z to Plan Pee and back.

Some of the "trade" scenarios I've seen make my little head explode and all involve giving up draft picks, with which we have a very dicey history. 

Lauri Markkanen is cited as a target, and he purportedly wanted out of Chicago...but then they made some managerial changes, so who knows. 

I like the Finnish kid, and as I recall the Prophet Kiid is a fan.  A 7'0" 240 pounder...has had some injury problems and probably feels poorly used by the Bulls coaches this past year, his third.  In his sophomore year he was basically a 19-9 man. 

He is a stretch four, who is still maturing.  Going forward the Knicks need to decide if his style of game is a better fit, or Randle's more muscular style. 

In any event, in all of the trade scenarios we were were giving away the ranch. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 29, 2020, 09:02:09 PM
Pretty sure I can stomach Paul and Thibodeau for now - no matter who else comes in and with the thought process that Frank and DSJ leave when the year is out.

Draft Vernon Carey, if none of the projected top 6 drop and we are at 7.
I may even like Carey at 6.
But first make the big move to get to #1 or 2 pick, keeping Barrett and Robinson out of talks and using Randle only if necessary.   (addendum:  Mitch could go in a deal if it is HUGE, if we are getting a second star for CP3.  I say this because I know he will be exceedingly expensive to keep, as I stated much earlier)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 30, 2020, 01:58:40 AM
Not sure how you expect to move up from 6 or 7 to 1 or 2 without including any of our actually good assets.  Noone's giving up much for Knox, Franc, Jr. Smith, Elf.
Gotta give to get.

Otherwise C's don't make as much as they used to, due to a change in hoops style and a C glut.   And the glut means most teams don't need a C.  Plus the cap likely to come down to the 'Rona Virus.  Also, overpaying Mitch some, if necessary, isn't a bad thing since we squeezed him on the ultra-cheap for a few years.  Hell, were still paying Noah $6M and Taj more than that.  We can afford $12M - $15M for Mitch.  And if the market isn't there, we ,might get him starting at $10M, which could be another bargain.  (Though I was willing to include him in a deal for Tangelo -- we need a starting PG more than a future starting C).

Since we're likely at best a sub-40 W, marginal playoff threat, I'd start Mitch this year.  Let him take his lumps and learn to control his fouls.  Develop a rhythm and rapport with the starting unit.  RJB, Mitch and whatever rook will be our core; let Randle adapt his game around them if he wants to stick.  Obvious needs are shooting and playmaking, hopefully coming from the rook and a FA addition.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 30, 2020, 05:52:47 AM
We luck into a high pick or we don’t. I also don’t mind using the 2nd rounder to up the position of the first or second pick if there’s a guy we want and the team there would be more excited to have two later picks than the one in front of them.

Okongwu is a much better player in a fast league than Carey. I agree with going big with a 6th or 7th pick, especially if Toppin and/or Okongwu are on the board.

I’d definitely test the market for Randle and intend to keep two of Randle, Taj, and Bobby and have Wooten in camp.

I’d keep Bullock and dump Ellington though it costs a Mil to say goodbye.

No calls on Dot, Trier, and Harkless till we see what offers they get, though I’d offer Moe our largest exception as a starting point, so he doesn’t just jump off somewhere else.

Wait till the last minute on Payton’s option. I don’t want him starting, but he’s worth 8 mil off the bench where his shine would outweigh his warts.

Otherwise we have developing guys on relatively short and team friendly deals.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 30, 2020, 01:33:35 PM
Bullock not Ellington
Better shooter/D/contract.

Dotson over Trier
We'll need to choose at some point.
Just seems Dot can move up to SF some, is a little more poised as a shooter, and slightly less spacey on D.  But I'd be fine going the other way and using Trier as a bench microwave guy.

Randle and not Portis.  I don't like either of their games.  Too sloppy, and weak D.
Portis easier to drop.  I'd be happy ditching both.

Taj?  Taj and Bullox can be our vets.  Drop Taj and you need another vet voice.

MoHark?  I like him, but think he's better on a team with defined roles and quality scorers.  Somewhat wasted and less effective on NYK.  So I'd like to keep him if we can make good use of him.  Doubtful.

Elf?  Most teams cheap out on backup Points.  But $8M is reasonable.  Too bad the rest of our team can't make 3's.
Title: I want Randle gone
Post by: Kam on April 30, 2020, 01:42:07 PM
Rather have Portis and his outside shot (every few games at least) than game after game of Randle's selfishness and team-killing turnovers.  Randle is too entitled as well to take all the shots.  He is in the way of true team growth.   Once a guy gets that role he will sulk too much to let go of it and it will hurt teach chemstry.  Portis doesn't have that entitlement so we risk nothing by benching Portis when his play warrants it.

MOVE ON FROM RANDLE.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 30, 2020, 02:08:33 PM
Not sure how you expect to move up from 6 or 7 to 1 or 2 without including any of our actually good assets.  Noone's giving up much for Knox, Franc, Jr. Smith, Elf.



picks, bad contracts......

I will formulate an example
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 30, 2020, 02:40:00 PM
Just 12-15 mil for Robinson as an RFA?

We matched SEVENTEEN per for Hardaway - and that was what will be five years removed.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 30, 2020, 02:41:34 PM
Randle is too entitled as well to take all the shots.  He is in the way of true team growth.[/i


Really?  How many does he take?

If Julius was a true chucker he'd likely average 28 PPG
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 30, 2020, 03:02:54 PM
Payton, Knox, this year's #1, this year's second #1 (25 overall) and a future #1 (from Dallas, protected)

to WOLVES for

LAMELO BALL (3rd pick), James Johnson (16 mil, one year), this year's #2 (33 overall) and a future #2.

Wolves get the 6 pick, likely not much worse than who they'd have taken (major assumption it wouldnt have been Ball) a perimeter guy to go with Layman and Culver, a steady backup to Russell (you could play D'ANG some off guard), a boost up the board from 33 to 25 and future consideration.

Knicks get a very usable for one year JJ - their stud BALL (who may beget Brother Ball), lose the 8 slots from 25 down to 33 and a likely fungible future 1.  They also lose Knox's promise, whatever that might be.  They settle their PG logjam just a tad, as LMB likely plays there at least some, maybe more.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 30, 2020, 03:45:56 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 30, 2020, 02:40:00 PM
We matched SEVENTEEN per for Hardaway - and that was what will be five years removed.

That was a blunder.

Quote
Just 12-15 mil for Robinson as an RFA?

Myles Turner flat $18M's (4 years)
Capela $17M this year (3 years more with $1M increases per year)
Brook Lopez $12M (3 more years with $0.5M raises)
DeAndre $10M (4 years)

Those guys are all better than Mitch and we can only hope Robinson reaches Capela or Myles Turner level on his next contract.   $10M -$14M range sounds like where Mitch should start out.  He hasn't proved much yet, except potential.  3/$36 or 4/$50M seems reasonable.

Vucevic with a recent large C contract (4/$100M).  Also, Embiid and Horford $28M (Al's drops and Joel's escalates over the next 3 years)

Be interesting to see what two previously overpaid defensive C's -- Whiteside and Biyombo -- get in FA.  Also, Gasol & Ibaka (though TOR will certainly keep at leats one of those two).  Mahinmi makes for another Defensive C FA.

Well, I only went through the East (and added in Whiteside).
Takeaways:
- seemingly everybody has their starting C signed for 4 years (3 more).
- not many teams need a starting C (CHA, WAS ...)
- lotta defensive C's will be FA's.
- a handful of scoring C's make big $

EDIT:
Here's the West quickly:
KAT 5/$150M
Jokic 4/$130M
A Davis $27M
Gobert $27M
Steven Adams $27M next year
(those guys are stars, except Adams who will get much less next contract)

Valanciunas 3/$45M
Nurkic 3/$37M
Zubac 4/$30M

there's also some cautionary tales:
Dieng with $17M left next year.
Dedman 2/$26M left

HOU & GS don't really have a C
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 30, 2020, 03:59:02 PM
The feud continues....


https://www.foxnews.com/sports/pistons-legend-isiah-thomas-ranks-michael-jordan-as-fourth-best-player-he-ever-competed-against
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on April 30, 2020, 04:11:25 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 30, 2020, 03:02:54 PM
Payton, Knox, this year's #1, this year's second #1 (25 overall) and a future #1 (from Dallas, protected)

to WOLVES for

LAMELO BALL (3rd pick), James Johnson (16 mil, one year), this year's #2 (33 overall) and a future #2.

Wolves get the 6 pick, likely not much worse than who they'd have taken (major assumption it wouldnt have been Ball) a perimeter guy to go with Layman and Culver, a steady backup to Russell (you could play D'ANG some off guard), a boost up the board from 33 to 25 and future consideration.

Knicks get a very usable for one year JJ - their stud BALL (who may beget Brother Ball), lose the 8 slots from 25 down to 33 and a likely fungible future 1.  They also lose Knox's promise, whatever that might be.  They settle their PG logjam just a tad, as LMB likely plays there at least some, maybe more.

You forgot to include your first born. 

No Sale.

Ball is a tempting prospect, but on a talent level with Jah Morant or Zion? 

I think NOT. 

Sorry.  This is not rational. 

PS: Including Mitch Robinson in any deal is insane.  As for paying him, Jeez, be still my heart.  We have larger more pressing issues to ponder in the short term.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 30, 2020, 04:21:50 PM
Ball is a tempting prospect, but on a talent level with Jah Morant or Zion?


Doesn't have to be

You get LMB you likely also get a shot at Lonzo.

Do I do this for Edwards if it goes Ball-Topin 1-2?

Yes

Do I do it for Toppin?  If we like him much better than Anthony/Carey?  Yes.

By the way - what exactly do you think we are giving up in the deal that is so long term valuable?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on April 30, 2020, 04:44:17 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 30, 2020, 04:21:50 PM
Ball is a tempting prospect, but on a talent level with Jah Morant or Zion?


Doesn't have to be

You get LMB you likely also get a shot at Lonzo.

Do I do this for Edwards if it goes Ball-Topin 1-2?

Yes

Do I do it for Toppin?  If we like him much better than Anthony/Carey?  Yes.

By the way - what exactly do you think we are giving up in the deal that is so long term valuable?

The Knicks have a sad history on giving up on players way too fucking soon. 

We have cashed in some incontrovertibly gifted assets for better fits, but that was a long time ago.

Cazzie Russell for Jerry Lucas. 

Mike Riordan & Dave Stallworth for Earl Monroe. 

But we gave up way too early on the likes of Rod Strickland, Trevor Ariza, and the last trades that leap to mind in which we gave up two #1 picks were Marbury, Curry and Anthony. 

I am in a distinct minority as far as giving up on Kevin Knox. 

Also, "...you get LMB you likely also get a shot at Lonzo." 

That's a rather rosy projection. 

At this point in time I would be happy just to even have actual MLB, NFL, NBA seasons. 

Let me throw this back at you. 

IF WE END UP WINNING THE #1 PICK?

Edwards?

Ball?

Toppin?   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 30, 2020, 05:05:20 PM
Edwards



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSJYVl2Z8Ug

Look at the move to his left at about 0:40-0:45

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on April 30, 2020, 05:15:49 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 30, 2020, 05:05:20 PM
Edwards



https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?fr=yhs-iba-1&hsimp=yhs-1&hspart=iba&p=anthony+edwards+draft+profile#id=0&vid=7c568c468ceeffbed1af89bf47ed2363&action=click


Look at the move to his left at about 0:40-0:45

He is touted as a COMBO Guard. 

Do you see him as a legit option as a RUDDER/PG presence.  We know he is a superior athlete. 

PS: The link led me to an entire page of Links.

PPS: Could you zero in on a single YouTube video with highlights.  Not sure which one contains the move to the left. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 30, 2020, 05:22:22 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 30, 2020, 02:41:34 PM
Randle is too entitled as well to take all the shots.  He is in the way of true team growth.[/i


Really?  How many does he take?

If Julius was a true chucker he'd likely average 28 PPG

All the shots when the knicks need a shot. Late 4th.  GO-TO GUY.  Thinks he is good enough to be the man.  He isn't.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 30, 2020, 06:18:09 PM
Do you see him as a legit option as a RUDDER/PG presence.  We know he is a superior athlete.



Nope

Scoring guard.  You pla Edwards opposite a point.  If it's Paul, I see some real explosive potential.

But make no mistake - Edwards can create.  Like Cole Anthony in that respect - but bigger, able and more likely to play above the rim.... 

Leader?  I dont know - though being willing to carry the load is one aspect of leadership. 

We would outscore teams on many nights when our defense is subpar - if we started Paul, Edwards, Barrett, Randle, Robinson.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 30, 2020, 06:20:39 PM
Quote from: chipstern on April 30, 2020, 05:15:49 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 30, 2020, 05:05:20 PM
Edwards



https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?fr=yhs-iba-1&hsimp=yhs-1&hspart=iba&p=anthony+edwards+draft+profile#id=0&vid=7c568c468ceeffbed1af89bf47ed2363&action=click


Look at the move to his left at about 0:40-0:45

He is touted as a COMBO Guard. 

Do you see him as a legit option as a RUDDER/PG presence.  We know he is a superior athlete. 

PS: The link led me to an entire page of Links.

PPS: Could you zero in on a single YouTube video with highlights.  Not sure which one contains the move to the left.

My bad


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSJYVl2Z8Ug
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 30, 2020, 07:20:19 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 30, 2020, 06:20:39 PM
Quote from: chipstern on April 30, 2020, 05:15:49 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 30, 2020, 05:05:20 PM
Edwards



https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?fr=yhs-iba-1&hsimp=yhs-1&hspart=iba&p=anthony+edwards+draft+profile#id=0&vid=7c568c468ceeffbed1af89bf47ed2363&action=click


Look at the move to his left at about 0:40-0:45

He is touted as a COMBO Guard. 

Do you see him as a legit option as a RUDDER/PG presence.  We know he is a superior athlete. 

PS: The link led me to an entire page of Links.

PPS: Could you zero in on a single YouTube video with highlights.  Not sure which one contains the move to the left.

My bad


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSJYVl2Z8Ug

In all those highlights he goes left.  NBA teams pick up on that.  Especially in the playoffs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 30, 2020, 08:47:38 PM
Does it ALL - capital A - at the offensive end.

Not known?

Work ethic.
Durability
Handling of press (media, that is)
Leadership ceiling

Is Ball as good a player?

He just may be.  I just see some LeBron in Edwards.   Cannot pass that up

I remain totally in the dark on Toppin.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 30, 2020, 09:48:50 PM
Slotting Edwards between RJ and Frank could be interesting.

Not sure who Ball is supposed to be able to defend, but he’s still the other really good guard in this draft.

Hayes isn’t the passer Ball is nor the finisher Edwards is, but has the fewest holes and rounds out the top 3 guards.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 30, 2020, 11:31:52 PM
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2887956-meet-the-sleepers-of-the-2020-nba-draft (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2887956-meet-the-sleepers-of-the-2020-nba-draft)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 01, 2020, 12:12:59 AM
Rethinking Ball, it would be worth waiting on his D and we should pick him if he’s available.
Title: Rethinking Ball & Other Options
Post by: chipstern on May 01, 2020, 12:53:45 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on May 01, 2020, 12:12:59 AM
Rethinking Ball, it would be worth waiting on his D and we should pick him if he’s available.

If Ball is available where we pick, I am fine with selecting him. However packaging a shitload of assets and draft choices to select him seems counterproductive. As in it would be nice if he actually had some people to pass the ball to.

If we stay at number #6 or #7, it would seem that Anthony or Halliburton represent our best available choices, unless of course there are 3-4-5 options that trump them in terms of best available player upside.  Both are powerful offensive presences, though their viability as a rudder remains to be seen.  Still, look how Morant's dynamic talent in creating for himself opened things up for his team mates, irrespective of his talent as a distributor.  God knows, we need a consistent threat at the 1-spot. 

I would be fine with either of then, though I suppose I'm leaning a bit more towards Halliburton because of his size 3-point range and a better track record as a defender. But I suspect Anthony would be really motivated and a viable roll of the dice.  He IS a dynamic scorer.

I am however, my total respect for Chris Paul notwithstanding, hesitant about picking him up via trade. Yes he would certainly contribute to a more competitive environment, but we are not that far along with our youth movement, and it would strangle our cap flex.

Still, if Anthony and French Frank (and perhaps one of Peyton-Smith-Allen) make up our PG scrum going forward, there are worse scenarios than having Paul as a backcourt mentor and Gibson as a front court  vet.

But offloading draft picks?

Please God.

NO
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 01, 2020, 01:09:55 PM
I don't think we'd have to toss in Knox.
Using a DAL 1st and Elf to move up 3 or 4 draft slots to get Ball is good if we are sold on him.  Elf would be expendable and replaced by Ball.  So for NYK it'd just be the DAL circa #16 pick to get your guy.
Not sure if any team higher than us is up for it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on May 01, 2020, 01:15:39 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 01, 2020, 01:09:55 PM
I don't think we'd have to toss in Knox.
Using a DAL 1st and Elf to move up 3 or 4 draft slots to get Ball is good if we are sold on him.  Elf would be expendable and replaced by Ball.  So for NYK it'd just be the DAL circa #16 pick to get your guy.
Not sure if any team higher than us is up for it.

Nah. 

If we are going to pony up a pick, then it should be 2023...IF THAT. 

We paid too dearly for those picks. 

Moving up in the draft?

To me that is irresponsible. 

If we are going to be ponying up one of the Dallas picks, it should not be for positioning, but for a player. 

Lauri Markkanen?

That would minimally require a draft pick, and perhaps taking back a contract...

Such as

Julius Randle, Dennis Smith, Dallas 2021 #1.

For Markkanen and Thaddeus Young who makes 13.5 and 14.2 through 2022.  Not thrilled with taking back Young.  Just a thought.  Decent role player, can give you coverage at the 3 & 4, shoot the trey, play some D, respectable boards and assists....lousy FT shooter, not that he gets to the FT line very much.  And is 31 and on the down low. 

Otto Porter?  I checked.  Cannot be traded this off season. 

But Lauri would be a better fit for us moving forward. 

Wendell Carter and Randle at C & PF would give the Bulls interior presence. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 01, 2020, 01:34:52 PM
Not a fan of trading away picks, but it's okay if it's an extra pick, and not ours, since we tend to lose a lot and have high draft picks.  DAL with Luka, KZ, Carlisle, Cuban are stable and going to get draft picks around 16-20.  Those can be parted with.  Value them for what they are, without worry about how we acquired them (foolishly).

I like Markaanen alot.
Would prefer him to Portis.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on May 01, 2020, 01:49:55 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 01, 2020, 01:34:52 PM
Not a fan of trading away picks, but it's okay if it's an extra pick, and not ours, since we tend to lose a lot and have high draft picks.  DAL with Luka, KZ, Carlisle, Cuban are stable and going to get draft picks around 16-20.  Those can be parted with.  Value them for what they are, without worry about how we acquired them (foolishly).

I like Markaanen alot.
Would prefer him to Portis.

I'm not as down on Portis as a lot of folks. 

Thought his game was evolving as the season came down to the final stanzas.  Randle, too, for that matter. 

I suppose the main argument against Julius is that he is more of an old school 4, forcing action inside, often over reliant on forcing the issue thereof, and into the hands of a double or triple team.  His trey was getting better as the year progressed, but not his strong suit. 

Face it, we need everything. 

PS: Not as sanguine as the BoD-ster about offloading #1 picks,  ANY NUMBER ONE PICKS.  Too many sour memories of the Marbury, Curry and Anthony Trades.  Always a source of regret.  For instance, know who the second #1 pick in the Marbury trade turned into?  GORDON HAYWARD. 

PPS: Dallas is a KP injury away from a much more delectable draft position.  Not suggesting it might happen, or hoping that it WILL happen.  And the next full season with the Mavs could be Porzingis' breakout year.  But he on stilts and does have a history of injuries.  Just saying that you do NOT want to assume too much about another team's draft picks.  The Celtics turned Gerald Henderson into Len Bias [SIGH] and no one foresaw that the #1 they picked up would turn into such an asset.  SORRY, Bo, but I do not share your confidence that the Dallas #1 picks are so readily disposable. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 01, 2020, 03:36:45 PM
Is Detroit taking Ball at 5?

YES

Is Atlanta taking Ball at 4?

Likely NO.

Thus the next deal to look at is with the Hawks - in the event that LaMelo does not get selected 1, 2 or 3.

We need to leapfrog DET - thus deal with the Hawks to get their top pick, #4 overall.

Ideas?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 01, 2020, 04:04:40 PM
Trade candidates - Hawks

Duane Dedmon -   2 years , 13.3 mil per
(note:  I don't think they deal Capela)

Jeff Teague - sign and trade

DeAndre Bembry - sign and trade

Skai LaBissiere - sign and trade

Bruno Fernando - 2 years, 1.5 and 1.8 mil



Picks -  this year's #4 overall
           this year's second - #53

           2021 Atlanta 1st rounder
           2022 Atlanta first rounder
           2022  first round pick, from OKC, 1-14 protected

           various second round picks

Teague sign and trade rather than a Paul deal?
3 year deal would be his 32-34 aged seasons
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 01, 2020, 04:13:23 PM
Keeping Chip's Knox out of it.......

Teague (3 years, 45 mil) , #4 and #53

for

#6, #25 and Ignas Brazdekis

(Knicks may need to renounce a FA player or 2 prior to the deal)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 01, 2020, 04:14:54 PM
NBA future traded picks page, all 30 teams


https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 01, 2020, 04:15:24 PM
Ball likely goes Top 3.

Knix desperate for a starting PG.  IF they like Ball enough, it's worth the risk of offloading a likely mid-1st rounder. 

Knix would add the young Ball.  Have RJB, Mitch, probably Knox and Generalisimo Franco.  And we'd be adding next year's 1st rounder.  How many yute and rook contract guys do you want on your team?  Another reason the likely mid-1st is expendable.  Upgrade your quality since we already have a quantity of yute.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 01, 2020, 04:27:17 PM
Knicks quiz for the day

6 point guards who have played for the Knicks are in the top 30 all time in NBA assist percentage

(assist percentage is defined as an estimate of percentage of teammates field goals the player assisted on while on the court)

Who are the six - and who is the only one in the top ten?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 01, 2020, 04:28:33 PM
Kidd
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 01, 2020, 04:29:02 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 01, 2020, 04:15:24 PM
Ball likely goes Top 3.

Knix desperate for a starting PG.  IF they like Ball enough, it's worth the risk of offloading a likely mid-1st rounder. 

Knix would add the young Ball.  Have RJB, Mitch, probably Knox and Generalisimo Franco.  And we'd be adding next year's 1st rounder.  How many yute and rook contract guys do you want on your team?  Another reason the likely mid-1st is expendable.  Upgrade your quality since we already have a quantity of yute.

Analysts I have read feel Frank and Dennis will not be offered deals after 2020-21 - so there goes two "yute"
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 01, 2020, 04:29:42 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 01, 2020, 04:28:33 PM
Kidd


is on the list
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 01, 2020, 04:29:54 PM
Marc Jax
Strickland
Clyde
Mo Cheeks

Billups?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 01, 2020, 04:31:04 PM
I think I like Bibby better than Chauncey
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 01, 2020, 04:32:44 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 01, 2020, 04:29:02 PM
Analysts I have read feel Frank and Dennis will not be offered deals after 2020-21 - so there goes two "yute"

I didn't count Jr. Smith.
I figure one of those two would stay.
Especially if we offloaded Elf and brought in Ball.
Then you probably hang on to Franc for his D.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 01, 2020, 04:34:51 PM
Mark - check
Stricks - check
Kidd - check
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 01, 2020, 04:44:46 PM
Surprised Cheeks didn't make the cut.

I'll let others take a crack at it ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 01, 2020, 05:48:06 PM
Cheeks was #63 - just below 3 other Knicks - Greg Anthony, Ray Williams and Doc Rivers.  Could be the high scoring Philly teams drove his % down a bit.

4 other ex-Knicks in top 75 (wow - that is 14 all told)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 01, 2020, 05:51:05 PM
Richie Guerin
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 01, 2020, 05:53:08 PM
Bo dod get the top 3 including our top tenner - Mark Jackson (at #10 overall)

Top 9 are

Stockton
Paul
Wall
Westbrook
Nash
Rondo
Johnson
Knight
Williams
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 01, 2020, 05:55:35 PM
4 other ex-Knicks in top 75 (wow - that is 14 all told)




Just noticed 5 more in top 100


So 19 of the top 100 assist% men in NBA history at one time were Knickerbockers


No to Guerin
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 01, 2020, 06:13:53 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 01, 2020, 05:55:35 PM

No to Guerin

Maybe from too long ago.  Not sure about the time period.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 01, 2020, 06:46:28 PM
Marbury and Felton.

I think the number of ex-Knix in the Top 50 and 100 reflects how much we cycled through PG's, both young ones and aging vets.

Marbury and Felt are two of the longer-tenured Knix PG's since Chollie.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 01, 2020, 07:45:36 PM
Prigioni. He got his TO’s of youthful indiscretion out of his system in some other league. And, because Kiid brought it up, probably Jose.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 01, 2020, 07:47:05 PM
Marbury is top 30

Felton top 75

Last 2 top 30s are a little tougher but are from this era.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 01, 2020, 08:16:16 PM
One is foreign, the other "royalty".
Title: Jeff Teague
Post by: chipstern on May 02, 2020, 12:42:56 AM
You're joking, right. 

Maybe we could trade the draft rights to Jordan Hill for him. 

Same draft class. 

A sign and fucking trade for Jeff FUCKING Teague, three years, so we can get Ball. 

Fuck Teague and FUCK BALL. 

I'll be content with Anthony. 

Someone shoot me. 
Title: Re: Jeff Teague
Post by: carlos123 on May 02, 2020, 02:10:05 AM
Quote from: chipstern on May 02, 2020, 12:42:56 AM
You're joking, right. 

Maybe we could trade the draft rights to Jordan Hill for him. 

Same draft class. 

A sign and fucking trade for Jeff FUCKING Teague, three years, so we can get Ball. 

Fuck Teague and FUCK BALL. 

I'll be content with Anthony. 

Someone shoot me.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/LIxh3Lx7YWWRNAEy4zXqC2dFeXjVBSk0GTVukmlbRFPGqWgThL8OkPJNnvg9ocJYMSOrODwcDBuSAQHIbwRyjpvp-iMoKIn7mSj3hUF7lxwEsijeQyLo2hEj4BrAs_ei3XQwrq4z4-W0quQbmnJs2CaSBYinvuFlojLCXRgA5EZdxm-ZnDJEeVFOQhF8Zw-DhOI70fU7b1ZCTGd35MVGzhFkkQDX3o4i52EUGK6UPLv3q1HIZzi0anSN5CG3taAOFG_xppaggXMv5Oe6jOFIZW2LBx8Y30gtvgy5EaL6wWRQGxbU5iKjzGoaCGglVHUK77u8n8Ds9_NRloKmFWn1VqvfXF0Z2W2_h4gH55S0YbwNpmhzwO-NLclzwUQ8ONucFd9S_dcyBB0Fe7g7UTjAO8AarT5y6dqh7Q6OM2SK9Rc1ludf_vj9ni56hPp2dtH-LuEq0yEap1DA90PvDgdDRbMhOkQWNlnfIoV_8MsfdfbyVv35rM5TYPyZL8y3OiyjK0aogYlLJ2buUBAhomZHh-VT3J90TYQvkxVh6kGgswybrJDkU8qggh61pqy2At7d8Ycgyo1QJJHonq8czrS-6KokxE7dM1uGLRRg2f5CqNs7HzCDi8pBRjwCo_e_Q17Fu4F6pX6eGzKds0TQ2YaUplGxg4T-3nUqbrEJJDxmANWnLcwg-w60dQCn2otEwg=w740-h610-no)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 02, 2020, 02:15:15 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 01, 2020, 08:16:16 PM
One is foreign, the other "royalty".

Uhhh Jose Calderon? Jeremy Lin? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 02, 2020, 05:58:32 AM
Michael Ray.

I remember when the Knix suddenly had Michael Ray and Ray Williams and things were looking very promising, after a post-championship slump.

I was young and primarily a Nets fan, before they moved to the inconvenient Swamp and their games were on Sportschannel which wasn't on our cable Tv. 

Cable was a nascent enterprise back in the late 70's.  One neighborhood a couple blocks away got the first experimental cable in our area circa 1977.  They actually buried the cables underground and put this large central heating sized green metal unit on my friends lawn.  I think they got cable for free or a reduced charge for allowing the cable/utility eyesore on their property.  Their cable had Sportschannel where the Nets could be seen.  It wasn't until I think 1979 or perhaps 1980 that the rest of our NJ burb got cabled up, with the wires of course utilizing the existing telephone poles.

Thus we had MSG and the Knix available, and no Nets games.  So I became a Knick fan.  I had been following anyway, and when Bernard came from NJ to NY (circuitously) that sealed the deal.  And as I got into my mid-teens, you could just hop a train and be right at MSG in 45 minutes.  Usually you could buy a $10 ticket last minute.  Once we were 15 minutes late with the box office closed and an usher just let us in for free!  Games were not sold out.

To get to the Meadowlands required a car.  And though I was an enterprising 15 year old, I wasn't up for stealing and hotwiring cars just to see a crappy basketball team.  Ze Nets really took themselves out of play.  They were hard to see -- really impossible for me -- on TV.  I think they got some decent-for-the-time TV deal, but then half the state or more couldn't see them.  And they exiled themselves to a far corner of the state, where there was little else to do.  I never saw a Nets game at the Meadowlands, after hitting maybe 8 games a year for 3 years at the Piscataway RAC.   While their NYK rivals were accessible by public transportation and on cable TV. 

If anyone was ever wondering why the Nets never really developed much of a fan base and connection to NJ ... they didn't really try.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 02, 2020, 11:27:27 AM
Dumb name too.  It's like the if the Bulls were the Chicago Balls.  Or the Spurs the San Antonio Sidelines. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 02, 2020, 12:08:23 PM
Well the name dates back to their ABA days.  When they were on Long Island to start.
I always liked the alliteration of NJ Nets or NY Nets.  And there was the link with Mets-Jets-Nets in NY sporting lore.  Maybe it is a little generic.  But I always thought it worked.  Basically Dr. J made the Nets cool.  And the all-American color scheme worked too.
Title: Coach
Post by: Kam on May 02, 2020, 04:24:30 PM
Kenny Atkinson
Becky Hammond
Tom Thibadeaux
Mike Miller


I'd be happy with any of them.  In roughy that order.

Don't want Van Gundy or Jackson.
Title: Re: Coach
Post by: chipstern on May 02, 2020, 05:02:00 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 02, 2020, 04:24:30 PM
Kenny Atkinson
Becky Hammond
Tom Thibadeaux
Mike Miller


I'd be happy with any of them.  In roughy that order.

Don't want Van Gundy or Jackson.

Becky Hammond would be BOLD. 

Miller might have traction based on the calming presence and low maintenance hand on the rudder.  Not a spotlight hound. 

I'm fine with any of them. 

JVG.  The manner in which he bailed on the Knicks never sat well with me. 

LJ had left, and JVG saw the handwriting on the wall,wins-and-losses wise.  His agony over the death of a friend on 9-11 never quite passed the smell test.  He was a good coach and has a keen hoops mind, but our dark night of the soul began with LJ and JVG leaving. 

LJ had to.

Jeff did not. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 02, 2020, 06:09:44 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 02, 2020, 02:15:15 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 01, 2020, 08:16:16 PM
One is foreign, the other "royalty".

Uhhh Jose Calderon?

yes

alltime top 30.

Baron Davis is the other - #20 overall
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 02, 2020, 06:11:08 PM
It's Hammon.

If she gets her own team it will be the Spurs

But more likely goes to WNBA or college ranks as a HC.
Title: Hammon whole wheat
Post by: Kam on May 02, 2020, 10:52:10 PM
Ham on, ham on, ham on whole wheat, all right
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 02, 2020, 11:36:05 PM
You know who she was as a player, right?

Maybe the second best Liberty player in their history, since Ionescu is now here
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 03, 2020, 12:35:08 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 02, 2020, 11:36:05 PM
You know who she was as a player, right?

Maybe the second best Liberty player in their history, since Ionescu is now here

And by second best choice as well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 03, 2020, 04:20:44 AM
The Knix and Hammon would be a total mistake.
We don't need more distractions.
We don't have a stable anything for her to work with.
A rook HC isn't good idea at this point.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 03, 2020, 04:21:59 AM
http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/258043/NBA-Postpones-Lottery-Draft-Combine-Indefinitely (http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/258043/NBA-Postpones-Lottery-Draft-Combine-Indefinitely)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on May 03, 2020, 01:41:02 PM
Howdy gents

hope you guys are well and not too fucking cabin-fevered.

I got a feeling we get a blast from your past coming up with some Knicks-Bulls hi-lights and low-lights in The Last Dance.

No fouls on Charles Smith?

All clean?

Nothing but ball?

that was a bad loss

stay healthy and wear your masks.

and you might want to pull the mask over your eyes for that Charles Smith sequence



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 03, 2020, 03:03:33 PM
I like this write-up.  Haven't heard of this guy, point forward from Arkansas

Played for one of my coaching faves, Musselman.
https://hoopshype.com/2020/04/30/nba-draft-prospect-mason-jones-i-can-achieve-being-an-all-star-or-being-an-mvp-in-the-league/
Title: MUGGED
Post by: chipstern on May 03, 2020, 03:49:02 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on May 03, 2020, 01:41:02 PM
Howdy gents

hope you guys are well and not too fucking cabin-fevered.

I got a feeling we get a blast from your past coming up with some Knicks-Bulls hi-lights and low-lights in The Last Dance.

No fouls on Charles Smith?

All clean?

Nothing but ball?

that was a bad loss

stay healthy and wear your masks.

and you might want to pull the mask over your eyes for that Charles Smith sequence

Thanks BANKS. 

Charles Smith was MUGGED.

Repeatedly.  Mugged, just this side of anal penetration. 

He did not deserve the agita heaped on him.

Anymore than Bill Buckner did. 

If you watch that Knicks-Bulls game, the Knicks as a team clanked so many fucking foul shots leading up to that conclulsive series of NO CALLS, it is no wonder it came down a ref's fear sightedness. 

Much as everyone jumps on Buckner, without whom, there's have been no trip to the 1986 World Series. 

Want to castigate someone.  Much as with the Knicks, a team effort...that Idiot Manager...Calvin Schrlaldi staring into the headlights...Bob "Oh No...OH NO" Stanley. 

Did I mention how the RED SOX manager was a damn fool?

PS: Knicks-Bulls.  Would love to see a replay of Bernard, Sly, Ray and Mister Bill in that seven game epic against the Celtics, in which neither team could overcome the frenzied crowds on the ofay's home court.  Bernard was HEROIC. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on May 03, 2020, 03:56:13 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on May 03, 2020, 03:03:33 PM
I like this write-up.  Haven't heard of this guy, point forward from Arkansas

Played for one of my coaching faves, Musselman.
https://hoopshype.com/2020/04/30/nba-draft-prospect-mason-jones-i-can-achieve-being-an-all-star-or-being-an-mvp-in-the-league/

Interesting.  A little undersized. 

Perhaps someone to look out for in the second round. 

Still, we have Knox, Brazdeikis, Bullock, RJ. 

Have you scouted any of the second-tier PGs?  Fran Fresh Gorilla is on record as believing that the Knicks should not reach for a PG in the TOP 10, but zero in on the very best player, period, and look to snatch a sleeper with the Clippers' first rounder. 
Title: Re: MUGGED
Post by: bankshot1 on May 03, 2020, 04:08:55 PM
Quote from: chipstern on May 03, 2020, 03:49:02 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on May 03, 2020, 01:41:02 PM
Howdy gents

hope you guys are well and not too fucking cabin-fevered.

I got a feeling we get a blast from your past coming up with some Knicks-Bulls hi-lights and low-lights in The Last Dance.

No fouls on Charles Smith?

All clean?

Nothing but ball?

that was a bad loss

stay healthy and wear your masks.

and you might want to pull the mask over your eyes for that Charles Smith sequence

Thanks BANKS. 

Charles Smith was MUGGED.

Repeatedly.  Mugged, just this side of anal penetration. 

He did not deserve the agita heaped on him.

Anymore than Bill Buckner did. 

If you watch that Knicks-Bulls game, the Knicks as a team clanked so many fucking foul shots leading up to that conclulsive series of NO CALLS, it is no wonder it came down a ref's fear sightedness. 

Much as everyone jumps on Buckner, without whom, there's have been no trip to the 1986 World Series. 

Want to castigate someone.  Much as with the Knicks, a team effort...that Idiot Manager...Calvin Schrlaldi staring into the headlights...Bob "Oh No...OH NO" Stanley. 

Did I mention how the RED SOX manager was a damn fool?

PS: Knicks-Bulls.  Would love to see a replay of Bernard, Sly, Ray and Mister Bill in that seven game epic against the Celtics, in which neither team could overcome the frenzied crowds on the ofay's home court.  Bernard was HEROIC.

I'm generally in the "Let'em play/put the whistles away" school of reffing, so banging under the boards in a 1 pt game with no whistles is ok with me. I just remember watching that sequence almost in disbelief that Smith had a gazillion chances to win the game.

as for idiot Sox managers making questionable decisions in huge game, Sox fans have had choices. :)

I got to see games 4 and 6 at MSG of that series, Two really good games. King was special. He ate Cornbread that series.   

Stay well Chip
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 03, 2020, 05:19:46 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on May 03, 2020, 04:21:59 AM
http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/258043/NBA-Postpones-Lottery-Draft-Combine-Indefinitely (http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/258043/NBA-Postpones-Lottery-Draft-Combine-Indefinitely)

Guess they're dead set on not only having a playoffs but completing the regular season down in Disneyworld in order to determine lottery odds.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 03, 2020, 06:21:30 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 03, 2020, 04:20:44 AM
The Knix and Hammon would be a total mistake.
We don't need more distractions.
We don't have a stable anything for her to work with.
A rook HC isn't good idea at this point.

Atkinson was a rookie HC as was Miller.  You gotta start somewhere.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on May 03, 2020, 07:04:30 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 03, 2020, 06:21:30 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 03, 2020, 04:20:44 AM
The Knix and Hammon would be a total mistake.
We don't need more distractions.
We don't have a stable anything for her to work with.
A rook HC isn't good idea at this point.

Atkinson was a rookie HC as was Miller.  You gotta start somewhere.

So was Steve Kerr. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 03, 2020, 07:16:07 PM
http://www.theringer.com/nba/2020/4/30/21241882/nba-draft-2020-stars-role-players (http://www.theringer.com/nba/2020/4/30/21241882/nba-draft-2020-stars-role-players)

Remember this article if we don’t move into the top 4 spots whenever they decide to hold the lottery.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 03, 2020, 09:36:27 PM
Have you scouted any of the second-tier PGs?  Fran Fresh Gorilla is on record as believing that the Knicks should not reach for a PG in the TOP 10, but zero in on the very best player, period, and look to snatch a sleeper with the Clippers' first rounder.



Peyton Pritchard -  thumbs up




I like Tre Jones a bit


Cassius Winston, sure -

- both battle tested.  Winston more seasoned.



Know nothing of Malachi Flynn, who is getting more ink than these three





Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 03, 2020, 09:45:47 PM
Not sure he's a point but NBAdraft.net has Celtics taking this guy right after we pick


https://ukathletics.com/sports/mens-basketball/roster/immanuel-quickley/7513

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/4395724


SEC Player of the Year
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 03, 2020, 10:10:09 PM
Paul Reed is a guy I like Round 2 - where theyhave us taking the gamble on Jay Scrugg

Reed -


https://www.nbadraft.net/players/paul-reed/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nl8OxiLCPA#action=share
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 04, 2020, 03:41:09 AM
Quote from: chipstern on May 03, 2020, 07:04:30 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 03, 2020, 06:21:30 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 03, 2020, 04:20:44 AM
The Knix and Hammon would be a total mistake.
We don't need more distractions.
We don't have a stable anything for her to work with.
A rook HC isn't good idea at this point.

Atkinson was a rookie HC as was Miller.  You gotta start somewhere.

So was Steve Kerr.

So were hundreds of coaches who flamed out and were never heard from again.

The Knick roster and front office instability and coaching carousel makes this a bad situation for a rook coach.  Miller at least has been with the team as an assistant, so knows the lay of the land.  And coached half a season or how many games he got through.  I'd be fine sticking with him.    Though can't say much stood out about his run.  Atkinson did a fine job with the Nets yute, and the Knix really need to get our yute playing well and together.  Plus he was a NYK assistant and head coach in BKY, so can deal with NYC.  Seems the obvious, logical choice.  Maybe 3 or 4 years form now, we'd be ready for Thibs.  Or maybe Miller/Atkinson can lead us through. 

Since JVG left in 2002, Knix have had 10 coaches.  And I didn't count interims such as Herb or Rambis.  10 coaches in 19 years ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 04, 2020, 04:07:48 AM
The Knick roster and front office instability and coaching carousel makes this a bad situation for a rook coach.  Miller at least has been with the team as an assistant, so knows the lay of the land.  And coached half a season or how many games he got through.  I'd be fine sticking with him.    Though can't say much stood out about his run.  Atkinson did a fine job with the Nets yute, and the Knix really need to get our yute playing well and together.  Plus he was a NYK assistant and head coach in BKY, so can deal with NYC.  Seems the obvious, logical choice.  Maybe 3 or 4 years form now, we'd be ready for Thibs.  Or maybe Miller/Atkinson can lead us through.


too simplistic

I give any coach, rook or otherwise - a chance.

Prefer a guy with plenty of  experience?  Sure - But hire Musselman and I am thrilled.   Hire Jay Wright?  I'm pretty happy (spare the "he's not coming").   Jalen Rose?   Bring him on.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 04, 2020, 12:00:29 PM
Jalen Rose?

I'd take Patrick Ewing first ...

Btw, Kerr was smart enough to stay away from Phil and the muddled Knix.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 04, 2020, 01:31:04 PM
I dont think Pat has shown himself to be a good coach or even a  good leader of men.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 04, 2020, 01:39:23 PM
KERR has never done anything east coast

Would have been a real surprise if Phil landed him.
Title: CBS 2020 Mock
Post by: chipstern on May 04, 2020, 05:25:44 PM
1   Warriors   LaMelo Ball, PG   Australia
2   Timberwolves   Anthony Edwards, SG   Georgia
3   Pistons   Killian Hayes, PG   France
4   Hawks   Onyeka Okongwu, C   USC
5   Cavs   Cole Anthony, PG   N. Carolina
6   Knicks   Obi Toppin, PF   Dayton
7   Bulls   Tyrese Haliburton, PG   Iowa St.
8   Hornets   James Wiseman, C   Memphis
9   Wizards   Aaron Nesmith, SF   Vanderbilt
10   Suns   Deni Avdija, SF   Israel
11   Spurs   Isaac Okoro, SF   Auburn
12   Kings   Precious Achiuwa, PF   Memphis
13   Pelicans   Saddiq Bey, SF   Villanova
14   Trail Blazers   Leandro Bolmaro, SF   Argentina
15   Magic   Tyrese Maxey, F   Kentucky
16   Timberwolves (via Nets)   R.J. Hampton, SG   New Zealand
17   Celtics (via Grizzlies)   Jalen Smith, C   Maryland
18   Mavericks   Kira Lewis Jr., PG   Alabama
19   Nets (via 76ers)   Devin Vassell, SF   Florida State
20   Bucks (via Pacers)   Jahmi'us Ramsey, SG   Texas Tech
21   Nuggets (via Rockets)   Theo Maledon, PG   France
22   76ers (via Thunder)   Zeke Nnaji, C   Arizona
23   Heat   Vernon Carey, C   Duke
24   Jazz   Nico Mannion, PG   Arizona
25   Thunder (via Nuggets)   Josh Green, SG   Arizona
26   Celtics   Daniel Oturu, C   Minnesota
27   Knicks (via Clippers)   Isaiah Stewart, C   Washington
28   Raptors   Tre Jones, PG   Duke
29   Lakers   Jaden McDaniels, PF   Washington
30   Celtics (via Bucks)   Patrick Williams, SF   Florida St.
Title: Obi Toppin, PF [6'9, 220], NBA Draft.Net
Post by: chipstern on May 04, 2020, 05:26:44 PM
NBA Comparison: Kenyon Martin/Shawn Marion

Strengths: Toppin is a late blooming frontcourt prospect who seemingly come out of nowhere after a redshirt season in 2017-2018 to emerge as the best player and prospect in the A-10 conference in 2019-2020 and one of the top players and prospects in the nation … Has decent size for a PF prospect at 6’9, a 7-2 wingspan and around 230 lbs …Shows very good run-jump athleticism … An above the rim highlight machine, Toppin is a consistent finisher at the rim and looks to finish with authority much more often than not, even through contact … Lead the NCAA in dunks this season, and many of them were of the put back variety due to a quick 2nd jump and high energy … His experience playing the 5 for Dayton gives him positional versatility, as he has the ability to operate on the low post, mid range and even step out to the 3 point line and be effective, making him fit seamlessly as a 6’9 four man in the current NBA … His shooting fundamentals are a plus, as he shoots with consistent mechanics and a high release point, making him a potential floor spacing option … Showed the ability to create offense from the perimeter, hitting both catch and shoot but also creating some pull ups … His 39% from 3-point shows what a prolific shooter he has become … The fact that he shot a great clip on a high usage rate gives his ability to score at the next level a lot of intrigue … Can be effective as a roll man or a spot up shooter in the picking game, making him a formidable match up … Moves well without the ball and shows natural instincts … Quite efficient and makes smart decisions on the court, unselfish player and has good passing ability, as his near even a/to ratio from a forward attests … Solid as a defender at the college level in each of his 2 seasons, pretty good fundamentals and IQ on that end and gives good focus and consistency … His considerable improvements each year suggest a player with the smarts and work ethic necessary to find a way to succeed/thrive at the next level … Handled not catching teams by surprise and having the attention on him very well this season, proving his RFr season was not a fluke and just the tip of the iceberg … Despite being older, shows potential to develop his offensive game further, having shown a great deal of improvement in the past year … Has one of the highest floors of any player available in this year’s draft … A coachable, team oriented guy. Shows very good leadership and maturity, and figures to make an excellent teammate at the next level …

Weaknesses: Though a standout athlete with nice size, Toppin doesn’t seem to possess great foot quickness, and will likely have some struggles defending on the perimeter in match ups with quicker 4’s … Appears somewhat stiff in his upper body and shoulders, but flexibility could be improved upon over time  … Given his leaping skills and length, as well as the size advantage he enjoys in most matchups with A-10 big men, Toppin is an average overall rebounder at best (7.6 rpg this season, 5.8 rpg as a Fr) … Perhaps his rebounding can improve with focus on core strength, and work on fundamentals  … Though he’s been solid on defense in college, he does not project to be much of a shot blocker or threat in the passing lanes at the NBA level, giving him a unspectacular ceiling on that end of the floor … Doesn’t have many moves, as a low post player he prefers to almost exclusively use right handed jump hooks when he can’t simply dunk the ball, and he hasn’t showed much off the bounce when facing up either … Not much a shot creator … Turned 22 in March making him older than the average lottery pick … Though he proved to be a very good 3-point shooter, his 70% from the FT line is an area he needs to improve upon …

Overall: Toppin made a name for himself with his outstanding play in the last 2 seasons for a Dayton team that has a good track record of success as a “mid major” program … He led Dayton to a 29-2 record and 18-0 in conference … There is something to be said for a player who continually exceeds expectations after going from under the radar, to having a target on his back every night …Toppin was overlooked a year ago, having been denied an invite to the 2019 NBA Draft combine … He has some strong potential in the pick and roll/pop game, and is an efficient player with an intriguing combination of a good shooting stroke and above the rim athletic ability …He’s currently not much off the dribble, is a surprisingly mediocre rebounder and his lateral quickness is somewhat questionable for a 4 man, but he is a hard-working, efficient player who has more strengths than weaknesses and figures to be among the first players to come off the board on draft night … Has made it known that he would love to join the Golden State Warriors who go into the lottery with the best chance of landing the top pick and at worst will be drafting fifth … Figures to be drafted somewhere in the top half of the lottery … Has All Star potential if his offensive game continues to develop and he lands in a good situation …

Notes: Has a reported 7-2 wingspan … Swept the National Player of the Year honors (Naismith, AP and John Wooden awards) …
Title: Wiseman
Post by: Kam on May 04, 2020, 05:33:34 PM
Hawks draft a C and it isn't Wiseman?  Hmmm...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 04, 2020, 09:56:37 PM
Hawks even drafting a C is puzzling.

That mock is WHACK.

Chip - thanks for the write up on Obi Won
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 04, 2020, 10:36:24 PM
Marion?  I thought the usual comp was to Amare, a rim running PF with a J and poor D.  Matrix was a very good boarder and terrific defender.  Basically a smallball PF with a weird J.  I was a big Marion fan, one of my favorite players of that era.

There's some Toppin vid showing him play Amaresque D.
Ty H would be a better Knick fit than Obi.

That mock has Bey very high.  I was hoping he might still be around for Knix 2nd pick.  Also, if Tre Jones is there, wouldn't he be a better pick than a C?
Vassell sounds like a good shooting prospect for the 25.
But I don't know any of these guys, have only seen a few minute vid of Toppin, Halliburton, Killian, Ball, Wiseman, Cole Ant.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 04, 2020, 11:43:29 PM
Draft seems to beall over the place - but every report I have on Toppin has him an eeeeeasy call over Haliburton.

Matter of fact that CBS mock is a bit dreamy for us - giving us a choice of 3 guys we thought might be gone (Wiseman, Toppin, Avdija)

Not much info on which way teams are leaning but why do a mock and make silly picks (ATL taking a 3rd center, Ball playing with Curry.....)?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 05, 2020, 12:00:06 AM
I assume the lack of workouts and combine and such has things pretty uncertain.

Some mocks just list best players in order and don't take team needs into consideration.  That's what I assumed about the CBS mock.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 05, 2020, 12:16:55 AM
They have the French PG the third best player?

I think it was done by a guy who just wanted to be different.

Just hope this draft doesn't get pushed back much.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 05, 2020, 12:18:23 AM
I do like seeing my guy Achiuwa at 12, highest I have seen him

Still puzzled on Duke's Carey

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 05, 2020, 12:26:31 AM
There's not much money in journalism or websites these days, so a lot of the work is being done by 20 somethings willing to work on the cheap.  While editing has largely disappeared.  So a good deal of info these days is poorly written by those without much experience.

EDIT: in my earlier post, I missed that they had Vassell at #19
Vassell & Bey sound like good shooters, so I was hoping one might be around at 25.
But everyone looks for shooters these days ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 05, 2020, 01:24:28 AM
Of note is that there are two Beys

Some like the Colorado player better
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 05, 2020, 08:48:00 AM
Projected draft ranges for early NBA draft entrants (basicallyall but the seniors):


https://www.nbadraft.net/2020-early-entry-list-projected-draft-ranges/


Achiuwa   10-25
Cole Anthony   4-12
Saddiq Bey    15-35
Tyler Bey (Colorado)    25-40
CAREY    8-18

Haliburton  7*-15

Toppin    2-8
Wiseman     2-5

etc.....


Plenty of "likely undrafted"

Also a huge list of foreign players - but without projections
New name for me has been LEANDRO BOLMARO (19-year old SG/SF)

Title: So far....
Post by: chipstern on May 05, 2020, 10:26:08 AM
Obe looks interesting...

But I still like Haliburton. 

Interesting piece on Thibs in the POST today. 

Besides his defensive pedigree, he makes some interesting points on 'diversification."

Thibodeau said he most prioritized “diversification of offense.” According to a transcript of the Sloan event printed by The Athletic, Thibodeau said, “How are the playoffs being played? If you looked at the shot profile of Golden State, they were prolific shooting 3s because of Steph [Curry] and Klay [Thompson], but they also were very good at the pick-and-roll game, catch and shoot, and utilized the post-up for the split game, which got them layups. To win in the playoffs, you have to have balance.”


Makes sense. 

The 3-pointer?  We all get it.

But it used to frustrate me to see the Knicks push the ball up court and then launch a trey with 12-16 seconds remaining on the shot clock, without even the pretense of making a few passes and, PERHAPS, manufacturing an easier shot attempts. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 05, 2020, 01:04:15 PM
Haliburton at 6.  OK.  I will keep an open mind.

Are you taking Haliburton if we get lucky and move up to 4?

How about 3?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 05, 2020, 01:08:18 PM
But it used to frustrate me to see the Knicks push the ball up court and then launch a trey with 12-16 seconds remaining on the shot clock, without even the pretense of making a few passes and, PERHAPS, manufacturing an easier shot attempts.


It's today's NBA.  Get open looks from 3 - and over time - that generates the most points.

Why?  When you can post up a guy who shoots it at 55-60%?  Well.....


1 - when he cant get his shot you end up instead with a shitty one - or a turnover

2 - you don't get as many second chance looks.  3s yield more offensive boards.

- there is of course also a shortage of this type player, with how youth basketball has evolved
Title: Who Knows?
Post by: chipstern on May 05, 2020, 01:25:26 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 05, 2020, 01:08:18 PM
But it used to frustrate me to see the Knicks push the ball up court and then launch a trey with 12-16 seconds remaining on the shot clock, without even the pretense of making a few passes and, PERHAPS, manufacturing an easier shot attempts.


It's today's NBA.  Get open looks from 3 - and over time - that generates the most points.

Why?  When you can post up a guy who shoots it at 60%?  Well.....


1 - when he cant get his shot you end up instead with a shitty one - or a turnover

2 - you don't get as many second chance looks.  3s yield more offensive boards.

All true.

Save that we often had Randle and RJ launching, let alone Peyton and Frank...

Bullock and Knox and Dotson and Portis probably our best 3-point shooters, and all a little streaky. 

Also, missed threes, long rebounds and a scramble to get back on defense. 

Brazdeikis has the range, and hope he gets an opportunity to launch a few if and when we ever get back to hoops. 

As for Halibuton if we move up in the pecking order? 

Good question. 

I suspect given Knicks karma that it's still going to come down to Anthony/Haliburton.  I like the latter, but am inured to the former. 

If we move up? 

One of the bigs, or perhaps a Euro. 

No one jumps out for me, though Ball and Edwards do seem to have upside.

Again, Fran Fraschila was of the opinion that we should not reach, but take the best player....period.

Haliburton is on my radar because of his size, his stroke and [supposedly] better defensive chops. 

Fraschila is not wrong, but we desperately need someone at the point who can command the attention of the defense, penetrate and hit the trey. 

Ball's instincts as a rudder are one thing...Haliburton and Anthony's scoring prowess recommends them. 

Kind of a dicey draft.

Suspect something with upside could be waiting for us with the Clippers' pick.  And Charlotte's second rounder as well. 
Title: Slim Pickens
Post by: chipstern on May 05, 2020, 01:37:52 PM
Traded Picks

2020 second-round pick: A 2015 draft-day trade sent New York’s 2020 second-round pick away for the rights to Willy Hernangomez. Involvement in other trades now has it to either Philadelphia or the Charlotte Hornets.

2021 second-round pick: To close Phil Jackson‘s liberal movement of second-rounders, he sent the 2021 pick in the same Hernangomez trade. So the Knicks do not have their own second-round choice until 2022.

(https://gary2idaho.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/pickens.jpg)


Acquired Picks

2020 second-round pick: The 2018 Willy Hernangomez trade netted two second-round picks from the Charlotte Hornets. This is the first of them.

2021 first-round pick: Via the Kristaps Porzingis trade, the Knicks will receive the Dallas Mavericks’ unprotected 2021 first-round pick.

2021 second-round pick: This is the other second-round pick the Knicks will acquire from Charlotte in the Hernangomez deal.

2023 first-round pick: The other first-round pick from the Porzingis deal, it will convey four years after Atlanta receives Dallas’ first-round pick. It has protections of 1-10 in 2023, 2024 and 2025. If this pick does not belong to New York by 2025, it will become Dallas’ second-round pick that same year.

PS: We have the Clippers #2 [conveyed from Detroit] in 2021 from the Morris/Harkless Deal. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 05, 2020, 01:44:18 PM
Knix were 27th in 3-Pt%.

And I suspect if you took out MaMo's shooting (as we did at the trade deadline), the Knix would be dead last.

Those early 3's are ugly.  And the team never gets into an offensive flow.  We didn't have knock down guys you wanted taking them.  I tend to think of them as Portis Specials.  But Randle, Knox and others would do it as well.

Knix were also the worst FT shooting team, by quite some margin.  29th FT shooting team was 3.5% better.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 05, 2020, 02:29:40 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 05, 2020, 01:04:15 PM
Haliburton at 6.  OK.  I will keep an open mind.

Are you taking Haliburton if we get lucky and move up to 4?

How about 3?

If there's an opportunity to trade down, still get your target, and acquire more assets then by all means do that.   
This isn't a draft with a clear cut Top 3 thus by picking in the top3 you may be reaching on whoever you pick.
Have to hope to find a team that will dance with you.  That's the hard part.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 05, 2020, 02:31:26 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 05, 2020, 01:44:18 PM

Knix were also the worst FT shooting team, by quite some margin.  29th FT shooting team was 3.5% better.

The most frustrating aspect to Ntilikina's game is that he is a very good FT shooter who can't get to the line because he attacks the rim so infrequently.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 05, 2020, 02:36:45 PM
I'd vote for picking up his dribble 30 feet out.  He's cut down on those telegraphed  passes which would often get stolen, and were always ugly.  Third would be letting Randle bring the ball upcourt.  His paucity of FTA's is pretty far down the list really.

And I consider myself a mild Franc supporter ...
Title: Randle
Post by: Kam on May 05, 2020, 02:38:24 PM
If we are sticking with Randle I think its a poor use of your primary team building tool (the lottery pick) to draft a PF.    Granted i believe it's very hard to build a team around a low-post PF who turns it over and doesn't like to stretch the floor very often.  So i'd be behind drafting a PF if we had a plan to move Randle.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 05, 2020, 02:40:03 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 05, 2020, 02:36:45 PM
I'd vote for picking up his dribble 30 feet out.

That's not far from what i wrote. If he attacked more it would be because he wasn't giving the ball up near halfcourt.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on May 05, 2020, 04:11:43 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 05, 2020, 02:40:03 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 05, 2020, 02:36:45 PM
I'd vote for picking up his dribble 30 feet out.

That's not far from what i wrote. If he attacked more it would be because he wasn't giving the ball up near halfcourt.

Frank was beginning to get it the last few games, getting to the FT line. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 05, 2020, 04:38:52 PM
Quote from: chipstern on May 05, 2020, 04:11:43 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 05, 2020, 02:40:03 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 05, 2020, 02:36:45 PM
I'd vote for picking up his dribble 30 feet out.

That's not far from what i wrote. If he attacked more it would be because he wasn't giving the ball up near halfcourt.

Frank was beginning to get it the last few games, getting to the FT line.

Saw that too.

I’m warming up to the idea of a Frank RJ Paul perimeter unit for the next few years with Mitch at anchor and seeing who else we can develop.

A deep team has 3-4 guards, 2 wings, 2 swings, and 2-3 centers you feel good about playing.

We’re not set at any of that, so BPA sounds good to me.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 05, 2020, 05:22:03 PM
It's all about what Paul would cost.  I love the thought of Paul for 1-2 years mentoring and leading. But if the cost is anything more than a 2nd rd pick i'm not interested in the deal.  We should be getting picks if anything to take on that contract.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 05, 2020, 05:35:29 PM
Ludicrous to think you aren't giving for Paul.  Doesn't matter the contract - he's a unique asset.

Go ahead - pass.  We hear you.  You don't need to keep reposting it.
Title: Re: Randle
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 05, 2020, 05:38:31 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 05, 2020, 02:38:24 PM
If we are sticking with Randle I think its a poor use of your primary team building tool (the lottery pick) to draft a PF.    Granted i believe it's very hard to build a team around a low-post PF who turns it over and doesn't like to stretch the floor very often.  So i'd be behind drafting a PF if we had a plan to move Randle.

Most lottery picks these days are not one position guys.

Cant play Toppin with Randle?  Sez who?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 05, 2020, 05:40:20 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 05, 2020, 02:29:40 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 05, 2020, 01:04:15 PM
Haliburton at 6.  OK.  I will keep an open mind.

Are you taking Haliburton if we get lucky and move up to 4?

How about 3?

If there's an opportunity to trade down, still get your target, and acquire more assets then by all means do that.   
This isn't a draft with a clear cut Top 3 thus by picking in the top3 you may be reaching on whoever you pick.
Have to hope to find a team that will dance with you.  That's the hard part.

Why do you quote a question I addressed to someone else - and not even answer it?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 05, 2020, 05:46:01 PM
Re:  moving up

I agree it will be tough moving into the top 3-4.... though I gave 2 good examples.


If not using the second #1 to move up from 6 -


Moving up from 27 may be key.  Maybe get into that 18-20 range.  Plenty to move up for there.  Just waiting and taking the leftovers isnt making the most of that #27.

#27 and a future 1?
#27 and a player
#27 and take on a "bad" contract to move a few slots.....

etc
etc
etc

So many options


Your guy Bey may be a decent target in that range should we move up.  But so many other interesting names.

I had it wrong previously - we actually pick just AFTER, not before Boston.  Sickens me to think they take a guy I like - and Knicks liked - with #26.

Glad we have something to talk about anyway.
Title: Forum
Post by: carlos123 on May 05, 2020, 07:10:52 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 05, 2020, 05:40:20 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 05, 2020, 02:29:40 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 05, 2020, 01:04:15 PM
Haliburton at 6.  OK.  I will keep an open mind.

Are you taking Haliburton if we get lucky and move up to 4?

How about 3?

If there's an opportunity to trade down, still get your target, and acquire more assets then by all means do that.   
This isn't a draft with a clear cut Top 3 thus by picking in the top3 you may be reaching on whoever you pick.
Have to hope to find a team that will dance with you.  That's the hard part.

Why do you quote a question I addressed to someone else - and not even answer it?

Chico, this is a forum. Any question is addressed to everybody.

Now go ahead and build it a second time, stable genius.

PS. No to Paul unless we get picks in the deal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 05, 2020, 07:52:44 PM
Julius for Paul straight up. Saves both teams millions in cap space, 19 for us if we kept Jules while taking Paul into space or 22.5 for them if the just hung on to Paul. It also gives OKC a backup or replacement for Gallo.

The hardball offer is us getting to include DSJ. This should be our opening offer which saves us 24 and them 17 with DSJ taken into account. 

Even if the cap drops, cutting Ellington can give us room to do it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 05, 2020, 08:19:41 PM
Good game on Big Ten Network

From January 1987

The original Jimmer - Steve Alford and Keith Smart taking on Bill Frieder's Michigan, with Vaught, Jobert, Rice, Grant.......
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 05, 2020, 09:31:16 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 05, 2020, 05:40:20 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 05, 2020, 02:29:40 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 05, 2020, 01:04:15 PM
Haliburton at 6.  OK.  I will keep an open mind.

Are you taking Haliburton if we get lucky and move up to 4?

How about 3?

If there's an opportunity to trade down, still get your target, and acquire more assets then by all means do that.   
This isn't a draft with a clear cut Top 3 thus by picking in the top3 you may be reaching on whoever you pick.
Have to hope to find a team that will dance with you.  That's the hard part.

Why do you quote a question I addressed to someone else - and not even answer it?

Use the quote function if you're addressing a particular poster.   The answer is there if you can comprehend it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 05, 2020, 10:13:45 PM
Kam, in response to your substantive response to our least conversationally fluent and socially graceful poster, I’d say even with no combine and no face to face visits (they could set those up like a prison visitation, two rooms separated by a window wired for sound) teams have a lot more info and tools to dissect it on every player in this draft than any team did on any player ten to fifteen years ago. There isn’t the kill or be killed pressure of the tourney on record for any freshmen or players like Toppin and Flynn who seemed on their way to having that kind of year, but as things stand, teams would be able to both sort player into tiers and have a sense of the distance between tiers.

If there are one or two guys left before you hit a cliff in your perceived value grades, stay put and take the pick. If there are four or more before the next big drop, see if someone at the bottom of that range behind you wants to trade up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 06, 2020, 01:29:24 AM
It’s also good to decide where you value these prospects compared to active players around the league as potential swaps can include more than just picks and cash. There’s a large roster of current players, including third and fourth options on their current teams for whom I’d trade entirely out of this draft.

I’d guess Kiid would trade our top pick for Zo Ball if his brother was already off the board when we got the offer regardless of who else was left in the draft. I myself might be with him on that.
Title: Re: Randle
Post by: bodiddley on May 06, 2020, 01:50:41 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 05, 2020, 05:38:31 PM
Most lottery picks these days are not one position guys.
Cant play Toppin with Randle?  Sez who?

But Randle is a 1-position guy.
Which reduces lineup flexibility.
Where do you play Toppin?  SF?  C?  Randle at C?
Sounds like we'd be totally roasted on D.
Not good. 
Sez Bo.
Title: Trader Vics
Post by: chipstern on May 06, 2020, 12:21:49 PM
Still trading Randle?

Still going all in for Chris Paul?

SIGH

PS: Would the Pelicans accept our #1 for THEIR Ball[er]?  Holiday is only 29. 

PPS: Would we be ready to accept Oakley Light [LaVar Ball] as part of that package.

PPPS: Ball is a first rate passer and facilitator...GIVEN.  And his court vision extends to defense.  He dramatically improved his three point shooting last season, but he is AN ASTONISHINGLY Poor FT Shooter, on a Chris Dudley level of incontinence (well, a step up, but that doesn't say very much), nor does he get to the stripe very often (Frank, 51-58 in 1187 minutes, Lonzo 38-67 in 1817 minutes). 

PPPPS: Would I pull the trigger?  No.  I'd draft Haliburton or Anthony and call it a day. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 06, 2020, 09:36:09 PM
Halliburton I’m convinced will be bullied through most if not all of his rookie contract, both in terms of bumps on both ends and from quicker defenders getting right up into him knowing he can’t blow by. Is he as nice as Sean Livingston (and he can stay healthier than a young Sean Livingston)? If he is,he’s well worth it. He just well may be that nice, but there is still the injury concern.

Having DSJ, I find drafting Cole Anthony completely redundant.

Ball
Edwards
Okongwu
Hayes
Toppin
Advija
Precious Achiuwa
Sadiq Bey
Vassell
Okoro
Halliburton
Oturu
Quickley
Azubuike
Tyler Bey

That is the top 15 on my big board in order. The drops are after 4, 8, 12, making four tiers. Players given 1-4 I value the same. Players 5-8 I value the same. Players 9-12 I value the same and hold equivalent players 13-15.

That’s the framework by which I’d consider offers to move up or down.

Carey might clock in at 16. He is a big boy.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 06, 2020, 09:58:48 PM

Having DSJ, I find drafting Cole Anthony completely redundant.


We have Smith one more year

Anthony we get for 4 plus.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 06, 2020, 10:11:19 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on May 06, 2020, 09:36:09 PM
Halliburton I’m convinced will be bullied through most if not all of his rookie contract, both in terms of bumps on both ends and from quicker defenders getting right up into him knowing he can’t blow by. Is he as nice as Sean Livingston (and he can stay healthier than a young Sean Livingston)? If he is,he’s well worth it. He just well may be that nice, but there is still the injury concern.

Having DSJ, I find drafting Cole Anthony completely redundant.

Ball
Edwards
Okongwu
Hayes
Toppin
Advija
Precious Achiuwa
Sadiq Bey
Vassell
Okoro
Halliburton
Oturu
Quickley
Azubuike
Tyler Bey

That is the top 15 on my big board in order. The drops are after 4, 8, 12, making four tiers. Players given 1-4 I value the same. Players 5-8 I value the same. Players 9-12 I value the same and hold equivalent players 13-15.

That’s the framework by which I’d consider offers to move up or down.

Carey might clock in at 16. He is a big boy.

Is your board based on Knicks need? Or how you feel the players are truly ranked?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 06, 2020, 10:54:41 PM
I like the tiers idea.

Re:  Carey at 16 - I wont quibble - I am ok with being higher on him than most.  I'd love to see what these mock-makers feel are his negatives.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 07, 2020, 12:59:08 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 06, 2020, 09:58:48 PM

Having DSJ, I find drafting Cole Anthony completely redundant.


I didn't find Cole A too exciting, admittedly on a limited look and I'm not comfortable evaluating these newfangled small gunner types.

But Cole is a shooter with range, Jr. Smith can't hit from outside.  Seems rather different players.  Plus it's possible that Jr. Smith is useless.  He could still get it together, but he was very much de-mojo-ed last year.
Title: Gile GOAT Boy
Post by: bodiddley on May 07, 2020, 03:49:09 AM
As for the C glut I've been talking about, which will impact what Mitch earns:
https://news.yahoo.com/breaking-down-the-nba-freeagent-center-market-212748528.html
They list 30 FA Centers.  A few are restricted, some old, inside and outside types.
But 30 FA C's!

This is interesting:
Quote
Harry Giles
Age: 22

The Kings blew it when they declined their fourth-year rookie-scale team option on Giles. Now, Sacramento is capped at paying him just $3.9 million (the equivalent to his fourth-year option). That’s a number that other teams can, and likely will, beat easily. Giles has had health issues, but no available center offers his mix of youth, scoring, rebounding and passing. Multiple teams would do well to offer Giles a large chunk of the Mid-Level Exception and any team would be happy with the production it gets for the next few years.

Fits with: Knicks, Hornets, Pistons, Mavericks, Warriors, Celtics, Clippers

Why not take a chance on this young feller?
Hell, Knix still paying Noah $6M a year.
Giles has a lot of physical tools.  SAC had a frontcourt glut, and Giles had some injuries.  The guy could bloom and be a force.  I'd roll the dice for 3/$20M or somesuch.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 07, 2020, 04:38:05 AM
Kam this is my list based on BPA order minus some guys with serious red flags. There may be some teams who could develop players through these issues, but this I looked at through a Knicks perspective. We are very young already and with both the plague issues and the ascension of Leon Rose I rejected those players regardless of their talent. Wiseman and Anthony will surely be picked before most guys on that list. But I’m putting more lean on the high floor than the high ceiling.

Maxey May have been overlooked, but I have no idea where to put him.

I don’t want DSJ next year. I don’t want two DSJ’s even more. I definitely don’t want 4 more years of what we’ve seen so far all the same.

Dennis defends only PGs and is high volume low efficiency shot taker. He doesn’t have a great track record of making other guys around him better. Anthony checks all those boxes as well, though Anthony I think is a more aware and better oriented defender. I think over time Anthony will become a decent enough PG to hang around. I’d rather keep DSJ and try to use him in a Lou Williams role than draft Anthony. Neither guy should play a minute ahead of Alonzo Trier on any team anywhere. They are super replaceable.

I got to go back and watch more tape on Carey. I would want to believe he’d be comfortable in a fast game and can defend a little in space.

By grit, guile, guts, or grace, guys who will lift the team even while they are learning the game is what I want. Being highly intelligent, opportunistic, and unselfish are prized traits. Where  I perceive that in the guys I’ve mentioned is related to my departures from the mocks that ive seen in ranking them.

FA class is much stronger in bigs than in guards or wings.

VanFleet, Dragic, Justin Holiday, and Alec Burks seem worth trying to talk to. I’d consider one of our exceptions for Reggie Jackson or Austin Rivers.

The two RFAs I’d risk (not wildly) overpaying by throwing them sheets are Christian Wood and Dillan Brooks.

The Harkless for Morris treade exception should easily net us a quality backup big.




Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 07, 2020, 04:43:53 AM
Prichard, Winston, and Flynn interest me in the thick of the draft. All three I think will contribute right away and play for a long time though none may ever regularly start.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 07, 2020, 05:26:44 AM
I dug some on Carey. He seems very much in the Zbo Randle Portis mold. He may be a top shelf version of that kind of player, and some coach in some system might turn him into a serious defensive player. I’d take him which is more than I’d say for Wiseman. As for now, I feel he’s placed just right though Maxey and a Zag, Killian Tille, might push him down a bit.

Vassell is in the second group, not the third group, after further review.
Title: Stefan Bondy Lottery Plan
Post by: Kam on May 07, 2020, 08:51:29 PM
Assuming the NBA is committed to bringing to all 30 teams back for a resumption, it should separate into two tournaments. One includes the 16 teams that would’ve made the playoffs, with the purpose of crowning a champion. The other 14 teams then play to win the draft lottery.

On the surface, a tournament to decide the draft order seems silly. We understand. But the NBA has already turned its lottery into a huge event with wide interest. Fans openly root for their team to lose during the regular season because it enhances their chances of the No. 1 pick. In my tournament, fans get to cheer victories that will lift their team up the lottery standings.  If it adversely affects the worst of the worst like the Warriors (15-50), T-Wolves (19-45) and Cavs (19-46), tough luck. They shouldn’t have been that bad.

The format is flexible, subject to time constraints. It could be a round-robin style, or a best-of-seven series. Eventually, though, the entire draft order will be determined by the results of this tournament.

The obvious flaw is motivating players to compete for a lottery position. For some players, the reward is drafting a player who could eat up their minutes next season and serve as a replacement. But it’s not much different than asking players to serve as tune-ups for the playoff teams. Perhaps Adam Silver can add monetary incentives, which isn’t far-fetched considering the commissioner proposed a $1 million prize for each winning player of a mid-season tournament.

Thinking outside the box is required at times like this.

Stefan Bondy
Copyright © 2020, New York Daily News


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 07, 2020, 08:54:56 PM
I like the lottery idea.  Bondy also claims the Knicks should go after Trae Young in the trade market.  Sensing a rift in ATL since their Coach was a Team USA assistant and Young wasn't even invited to be one of the 44 Team USA finalists.   Also the addition of Cam Reddish made them an even worse team defensively.  He does not conjure up a trade scenario.  Only that Young should be the Knicks main target.   
Title: Trae Bien
Post by: chipstern on May 07, 2020, 10:28:40 PM
Dream On
Title: Welcome to
Post by: Kam on May 08, 2020, 01:55:25 AM
Chips Wet Blanket Bingo
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 08, 2020, 04:15:34 AM
Let's hold out for Doncic!

(same silliness)

This site did a redraft of 2017 (https://fansided.com/2020/04/20/fansided-network-2017-nba-re-draft/).

They dropped Franc to 24 & Jr. Smith to 25.  Malik Monk 23.

The next two guys are barely NBA players.
Actually Tony Bradley they have at 30 looks quite promising.  Looked good when I saw him late season.

They put Giles 12 and Lonzo 13.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 08, 2020, 05:16:17 AM
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2890024-2020-nba-mock-draft-the-mystery-begins-with-the-no-1-spot (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2890024-2020-nba-mock-draft-the-mystery-begins-with-the-no-1-spot)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 08, 2020, 11:51:10 AM
That mock has Ty Halliburton going 4th, as a good fit for ATL.

I only watched a 5 minute highlight reel for TyHa, but thought he looked quite poised and with a sweet stroke.

I'd be fine with an Obi-Mitch frontcourt.
But then we'd still have about the worst G play.
And might spell the end of the Fort Knox era.
Title: Re: Welcome to
Post by: chipstern on May 08, 2020, 12:28:42 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 08, 2020, 01:55:25 AM
Chips Wet Blanket Bingo

I

LOVE

Trae Young

Explain to me again how doubting the credibility of this money shot conjecture marks me as a wet blanket? 

If we could get Trae Young I would be ALL FUCKING IN. 

But this does NOT pass the Smell Test. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 08, 2020, 01:18:56 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 08, 2020, 04:15:34 AM
Let's hold out for Doncic!

(same silliness)

This site did a redraft of 2017 (https://fansided.com/2020/04/20/fansided-network-2017-nba-re-draft/).

They dropped Franc to 24 & Jr. Smith to 25.  Malik Monk 23.

The next two guys are barely NBA players.
Actually Tony Bradley they have at 30 looks quite promising.  Looked good when I saw him late season.

They put Giles 12 and Lonzo 13.


Idiots.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 08, 2020, 01:26:20 PM
Nice that the mock has Knicks looking to deal up from 27 before taking their second selection.

Re:  hawks pick - have to wonder who they have Haliburton starting over.
Title: Trae Bien, Trader Vics
Post by: chipstern on May 08, 2020, 01:29:43 PM
I'll bite.

Would Chip trade both of our first rounders this season for Trae Young?

And toss in Dennis Smith for good measure.

?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 08, 2020, 05:26:38 PM
Its a non starter

They would burn Atlanta down
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 08, 2020, 09:36:16 PM
Have to agree with Kiid on that one. Not sure Mitch, RJ, and those two picks gets us Young at this point. I wouldn’t take that deal if offered, but it better reflects the state of Young’s market value in the League.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on May 08, 2020, 09:48:45 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on May 08, 2020, 09:36:16 PM
Have to agree with Kiid on that one. Not sure Mitch, RJ, and those two picks gets us Young at this point. I wouldn’t take that deal if offered, but it better reflects the state of Young’s market value in the League.

I.love Trae, but Mitch AND RJ and....And both of.our #1 picks.

What's the point of eviscerating the team?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 09, 2020, 01:11:00 AM
Exactly why we oughtn’t do it.

If Frank and RJ come in ready to sustain the accuracy and swag they showed the last dozen or so games that were played, we won’t be bad off in the back court.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 09, 2020, 04:04:54 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on May 09, 2020, 01:11:00 AM
If Frank and RJ come in ready to sustain the accuracy and swag they showed the last dozen or so games that were played, we won’t be bad off in the back court.

Worst shooting backcourt in the league.

As for Trae in NYC:
ATL certainly doesn't need another RJ type player.  They have Capela so Mitch isn't really enticing either.  And then they'd have a big hole at PG.
So neither team would do it, and you'd need a 3rd team anyway.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 09, 2020, 07:40:55 AM
So I bought a new pair of sneakers for $50.  Li Ning again.  Wore them for the first time and one guy said they were Westbrook sneakers.  I hadn't thought/realized that sneakers are almost all under some athletes endorsement these days. 

But I just checked and they are BHM sneakers, Black History Month.
And indeed the same shoe in another color had I Have a Dream written on the side multiple times.  I'm a little confused.  I assume Li Ning makes these for the US market then also sells them in China, since they are made here.  Not like BHM is gonna move sneakers in Shanghai.

Anyway, BHM kicks are better than Westbrooks, imo.  I'm still waiting for Russ to come out.  Seems like Li Ning and the Chinese brands (Peak, Anta) approach the market differently than their US counterparts, who go for flashy flagship stores on the main shopping drag, as a form of advertisement as much as retail.  It took some effort to find a Li Ning store, on the fringe of Shanghai, across from a rather rundown Walmart, and with a small Adidas and Nike store a few doors down.  Li Ning doesn't seem to have a store of its own within the ring road -- the main part of Shanghai.  I guess they mostly rely on department store sales, maybe online (which i always thought was a particularly terrible way to buy footwear).

When I hit the big flagship stores Nike and Under Armour were mostly overpriced.  Adidas had some stuff in my price range but not my size.  Even when they have my Size 11's, Chinese sports shoes tend to be too narrow.  I've learned to ask which pairs are wider and in size 11.  Adidas had some TMac shoes with a cartoon TMac  on the side towards the heel.  Weird.  I guess for kids.  Though the Ralph Sampson shoes were the strangest.

Anyway, odd that I got Black History Month sneaks.  The girl said they mark new editions down after six months usually.  But these were obviously January/Feb sellers.  They had nice aqua sneakers for $90, and the girl said come back in Nov/Dec and they'll be down to $50 sale price too.  Which was good to know.  An odd shopping experience, the first girl seemed like she thought I was infected and just wanted me out of there.  So I called over the younger girl who was friendly and helpful.  Even the pair I wound up buying, the first girl said they didn't have in my size, but the other girl said she'd check and went and got them.  Weird.

Edit:  Li Ning's two NBA endorsers are Dwayne Wade and RJ McCollum.
There in their 7th year of Way of Wade series shoes.  I think the aqua pair I liked were McC's.
Title: cap situation
Post by: Kam on May 09, 2020, 02:20:30 PM
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2020/05/202021-salary-cap-preview-new-york-knicks.html (https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2020/05/202021-salary-cap-preview-new-york-knicks.html)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 09, 2020, 02:41:50 PM
Good stuff on Checketts, Falk, Ewing and CHRIS MULLIN. - scroll down

https://hoopshype.com/rumors/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 09, 2020, 04:25:30 PM
Hoophype roundup also has a blurb stating that it makes sense to deal for Paul - as it could be cheaper - since we could send contracts back - than just tossing money at a big free agent (the number of years we commit to is also lower).  In their scenario the contracts of Knox and Ntlikina were examples of the $$ trade off.

I could see Frank and Kevin in OKC - with a decision on a  Frank extension coming shortly.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 09, 2020, 04:50:50 PM
That's from Marc Berman at the Post.  And that is even dumber than trading the farm for Young. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 09, 2020, 04:52:10 PM
Can you imagine how OKC would be lauded for pulling off such a trade? 

Like i've been saying, that would be "Same ol' Knicks"
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 09, 2020, 04:58:55 PM
I think OKC wants to get back to the Finals

They'd need to really draft/choose offseason pieces well after losing CP
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 09, 2020, 05:01:04 PM
And no - besides - I don't mind if our trade partner gets credit for a good deal.  It's my team I care about.  If they get better good for them
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 09, 2020, 05:11:40 PM
OKC

71 mil for 9 players

Adams
Schroder
Shai Gilg-Al
Knox
Ferguson
Ntlikina

Muscala
Bazley
Roby
Title: Same Ol' Marc Berman
Post by: chipstern on May 09, 2020, 05:29:08 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 09, 2020, 04:52:10 PM
Can you imagine how OKC would be lauded for pulling off such a trade? 

Like i've been saying, that would be "Same ol' Knicks"

More like the same ol' Marc Berman with one of his patented jerk off fantasies.

What's the fucking point of getting a veteran like Chris Paul if you offload not one, but TWO of cornerstone puppies.

Yes I know, some of you could give a frozen fart about Kevin of Frank. 

Fuck y'all, Marc Berman.  Spare us your empty fantasies and get your rocks off on PornHub. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 09, 2020, 05:47:54 PM
I saw another article saying it was best to get CP3 using cap space so Knix could keep Franc & Knox.  The theory was the cap will drop, teams would get sucked into heavy lux tax, and be looking to ditch big contracts.

Supposedly almost all the porn sites are owned by one or maybe two companies ...

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 09, 2020, 05:57:17 PM
What's the fucking point of getting a veteran like Chris Paul if you offload not one, but TWO of cornerstone puppies our failed draft picks.


Leader.

We lack that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 09, 2020, 06:04:18 PM
Great eight

Paul
Smith
ANTHONY
Barrett
Randle
#27 pick
Robinson
Brazdekis



add #38 pick
add re-signed Harkless

add
trade exemption player
add
mid level player
add
remaining cap space players, if any.
add
veteran minimums


Bad team, compared to what we had?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 09, 2020, 07:13:36 PM
Fuck that.

Any deal starts with Paul for Randle. They choose between Payton or Smith. The take Ellington and either keep him or pay the mil to cut him loose. If they want to throw in a pick, thanks. We sure as hell aren’t.

24-26 mil guaranteed 31-33 if the keep Wayne this year vs. Paul’s 38, 41, and 44. That’s all the incentive they need. In fact, they’ll need to give us their first rounder for the 2nd rounder we currently hold.

Mitch Taj
Portis
Knox Iggy
RJ Bullock
Paul Frank (Payton or Smith)

That’s ten. Draft three, or consolidate picks to add 1 or 2 higher up the chain. That’s 11-13 on board before free agency and training camp. Make QOs for Harkless, Dotson, and Trier. You can always pull those offers back, if you need the room or if one or more get an offer too high to match. 


In getting Paul for Randle, Ellington, and Smith we’d only be using 5 mil of our cap space, 3 if you substitute Payton for Smith.

They’d save 12-14 mil right away and 41, and 44 in the following years, relying on Shroder, SGA and Smith or Payton to pilot their team.
Title: Embrace Science!
Post by: carlos123 on May 09, 2020, 09:45:10 PM
Nice avatar Fac!

(http://image.spreadshirtmedia.com/image-server/v1/mp/compositions/T210A2MPA3176PT17X3Y5D1024738606FS3415/views/1,width=550,height=550,appearanceId=2,backgroundColor=000000,noPt=true,version=1565788875/act-in-defiance-embrace-science-resist-ignorance-mens-)

Just remember, Chico is gonna "build it a second time"

PS. I kind like your deal for CP3, provided they do throw in their No. 1 for our 2nd rounder, and they have to take Smith, not Payton.
Title: Re: Embrace Science!
Post by: facilitatorn on May 10, 2020, 12:49:17 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 09, 2020, 09:45:10 PM
Nice avatar Fac!

(http://image.spreadshirtmedia.com/image-server/v1/mp/compositions/T210A2MPA3176PT17X3Y5D1024738606FS3415/views/1,width=550,height=550,appearanceId=2,backgroundColor=000000,noPt=true,version=1565788875/act-in-defiance-embrace-science-resist-ignorance-mens-)

Just remember, Chico is gonna "build it a second time"

PS. I kind like your deal for CP3, provided they do throw in their No. 1 for our 2nd rounder, and they have to take Smith, not Payton.

That’s my optimal iteration of a CP3 deal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 10, 2020, 01:01:12 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 09, 2020, 04:58:55 PM
I think OKC wants to get back to the Finals


Yeah so what?  I think the Knicks want to get back to the Finals too. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 10, 2020, 03:46:32 AM
I don't think you can find any evidence of that ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 10, 2020, 05:11:08 AM
That’s harsh, Bo. Real Harsh.

Adams is young. OKC could look to save in the short term while building a contender around He and SGA with the intention of getting all the pieces together in a couple of years when we have a widely distributed vaccine and the window will be closing on the splash bros and LeBron.

It may simply come down to what CP wants to do. Players have most all of the juice these days.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on May 10, 2020, 05:17:06 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on May 10, 2020, 05:11:08 AM
That’s harsh, Bo. Real Harsh.

Adams is young. OKC could look to save in the short term while building a contender around He and SGA with the intention of getting all the pieces together in a couple of years when we have a widely distributed vaccine and the window will be closing on the splash bros and LeBron.

It may simply come down to what CP wants to do. Players have most all of the juice these days.

I don't believe CP3 wants in on the Knicks. 

And he would want it a lot fucking less if we traded away all of our yute and draft picks to get him.

DUH. 

I don't think this car has any wheels, just a lot of idle chatter with nothing else to report on. 

And nothing is going to come of any conjecture until we have some idea what our draft position is. 

Because #6 is one thing, the Top 3 is another. 
Title: Ain’t no trader Vic
Post by: carlos123 on May 10, 2020, 06:52:15 PM
Chip, no trader Vic here, but I’d take what Fac proposed, that is Randle, Ellington and Smith for CP3 and their #1. Not that OKC would do it but, like you said, we got nothing better to do and we don’t really lose any yute in the deal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 10, 2020, 07:13:25 PM
And he would want it a lot fucking less if we traded away all of our yute and draft picks to get him.



Not dealing key picks.

Isnt it true Paul, offset by salaries going back, becomes cheaper than adding a  top free agent?

And thet our commitment to him would be shorter?
Title: Knicker-Brocker
Post by: Kam on May 10, 2020, 08:11:27 PM
“What makes Brock unique is that he always thinks outside the box,” an NBA executive told cleveland.com.

https://www.cleveland.com/cavs/2020/05/why-brock-aller-chose-to-join-new-york-knicks-and-what-it-means-for-cleveland-cavaliers.html (https://www.cleveland.com/cavs/2020/05/why-brock-aller-chose-to-join-new-york-knicks-and-what-it-means-for-cleveland-cavaliers.html)
Title: Re: Ain’t no trader Vic
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 11, 2020, 01:24:37 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 10, 2020, 06:52:15 PM
Chip, no trader Vic here, but I’d take what Fac proposed, that is Randle, Ellington and Smith for CP3 and their #1. Not that OKC would do it but, like you said, we got nothing better to do and we don’t really lose any yute in the deal.

just dumb

What about the term "unique asset" (re"  Paul) do you miss?  You just dont get players like this easily, no matter the enormity of their salary
Title: Re: Ain’t no trader Vic
Post by: carlos123 on May 11, 2020, 01:33:29 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 11, 2020, 01:24:37 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 10, 2020, 06:52:15 PM
Chip, no trader Vic here, but I’d take what Fac proposed, that is Randle, Ellington and Smith for CP3 and their #1. Not that OKC would do it but, like you said, we got nothing better to do and we don’t really lose any yute in the deal.

just dumb

What about the term "unique asset" (re"  Paul) do you miss?  You just dont get players like this easily, no matter the enormity of their salary

Dumb and dumber.
Just go “build it a second time” 😳
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 11, 2020, 03:02:52 AM
Dumb and dumber.


You  and Fac - or Knox and Dennis?
Title: Easy
Post by: carlos123 on May 11, 2020, 11:37:45 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 11, 2020, 03:02:52 AM
Dumb and dumber.


You  and Fac - or Knox and Dennis?

Chico and Cartero.

That was an easy question. Try “a second time”.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 11, 2020, 12:39:18 PM
Such a unique player, why did Houston have to give OKC so many picks?  Russbrook for Paul straight up is what Kid would've proferred if he were posting on the OKC boards...  no extra compensation required.  He's better than any one we could sign!
Title: If the season really is over
Post by: Kam on May 11, 2020, 12:46:10 PM
For 12 games of Marcus Morris we got the Clippers #1.   Highway Robbery!
Title: Re: If the season really is over
Post by: facilitatorn on May 11, 2020, 01:03:20 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 11, 2020, 12:46:10 PM
For 12 games of Marcus Morris we got the Clippers #1.   Highway Robbery!

And that is exactly how we should be doing deals.

Kiid is always eager to see how many first round picks we can give away for the league’s Bargnanis, but since that never leads to winning and we’re all wearing masks anyway, committing highway robbery to improve the roster is the only business the Knicks should be in.
Title: And it really could be over
Post by: Kam on May 11, 2020, 01:09:39 PM
The UFC started up again over the weekend and had to cancel one of its events because one fighter and his two cornermen tested positive.

If a 'sport' where there are so few participants required to hold an event is having to cancel matches how in the world are they going to manage in the NBA where there are at least 15 bodies on each bench? 
Title: Another point on CP3
Post by: Kam on May 11, 2020, 01:18:51 PM
If you're not too upset about the 41mil and 44mil coming to him what if the cap is reduced significantly?  How will you build a team around a player whose contract was negotiated under the existing CBA and is  already considered a bad contract.  If it's bad now, it will be positively toxic when the new salary cap is revealed.  Is the Players Association going to accept pay cuts on guaranteed contracts already in place? 

It will be better to wait for the new cap numbers and then sign players to deals based on the new market realities.   

In Brock we trust.
Title: Re: Ain’t no trader Vic
Post by: chipstern on May 11, 2020, 01:42:09 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 10, 2020, 06:52:15 PM
Chip, no trader Vic here, but I’d take what Fac proposed, that is Randle, Ellington and Smith for CP3 and their #1. Not that OKC would do it but, like you said, we got nothing better to do and we don’t really lose any yute in the deal.

Yes, WOULD pull the trigger on that.  And I like Randle, but you've got to give to get. 

Makes a certain amount of sense for OKC, although Ellington is something of an insult.  Would probably have to include Trier or Dotson, minimally.  Randle would give them a legit presence at the 4 which they do not presently have, and if not, only a one year commitment compared to two with Paul, so more cap space.  And Smith might very well blossom with steady sixth man minute and a less glaring spotlight.  Though Peyton would make more sense for a contender.  And to aide in Gregorious's own growth curve. 


If I were OKC, and accepting Randle AND Ellington and Smith, I would not be enthusiastic about giving up any of my #1s, save for a late first rounder at best, so, another Clipper pick.  Even then, straight up without the #1, yes, I would still pull the trigger on that, because, Paul would still have Barrett, Knox, Nitilikina, Barzdeikis, Wooten, Robinson and two #1 picks and a #2 from Charlotte to mentor, including presumably another PG/Combo guard, + possibly Kadeem Allen. 

THAT
Makes
Sense

Otherwise, to hell with it. 
Title: Re: Another point on CP3
Post by: chipstern on May 11, 2020, 01:46:29 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 11, 2020, 01:18:51 PM
If you're not too upset about the 41mil and 44mil coming to him what if the cap is reduced significantly?  How will you build a team around a player whose contract was negotiated under the existing CBA and is  already considered a bad contract.  If it's bad now, it will be positively toxic when the new salary cap is revealed.  Is the Players Association going to accept pay cuts on guaranteed contracts already in place? 

It will be better to wait for the new cap numbers and then sign players to deals based on the new market realities.   

In Brock we trust.

Agree.  Totally.

With the caveat that if God forbid the Thunder would accept Randle, Ellington and Smith for Paul, then that could arguably justify eviscerating our cap space for two years while we build a core of puppies. 

And yes, stealing in trades should be our business, not selling our first born for a bag odf magic beans and Jerome James. 
Title: New CBA
Post by: carlos123 on May 11, 2020, 02:09:35 PM
That’s why they have to give us their unprotected #1.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 11, 2020, 02:12:23 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 11, 2020, 12:39:18 PM
Such a unique player, why did Houston have to give OKC so many picks?  Russbrook for Paul straight up is what Kid would've proferred if he were posting on the OKC boards...  no extra compensation required.  He's better than any one we could sign!

It was time for a change in HOU

Losing 4 of 5 years in playoffs to Warriors...(5th year was to Spurs}

funny that the year GS was to not be in the playoffs the Paul led Rockets were no more

The picks will not amount to much.  2 of the years of the 4 are right to swap.  Russ 3 years younger and contract runs an extra year

Good deal?  I dont know - but Rockets had to do something.  For OKC - same.  3 straight first round ousters.....
Title: Re: If the season really is over
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 11, 2020, 02:15:31 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 11, 2020, 12:46:10 PM
For 12 games of Marcus Morris we got the Clippers #1.   Highway Robbery!

Will it be Charlie Ward level or Jerian Grant?  Crapshhot.  Clips spit at the cost - but of course for desperate Knicks any pick is a lifeline

Now - use some assets and the 27 to move up for a DESIRED player - and you have something real.  Minimal asset garnered for Morris.  Use with other assets, if possible.  OR the roll of the dice it is.

We all stay tuned for it to play out
Title: Re: And it really could be over
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 11, 2020, 02:17:14 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 11, 2020, 01:09:39 PM
The UFC started up again over the weekend and had to cancel one of its events because one fighter and his two cornermen tested positive.

If a 'sport' where there are so few participants required to hold an event is having to cancel matches how in the world are they going to manage in the NBA where there are at least 15 bodies on each bench?

testing

like UFC did
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 11, 2020, 02:37:51 PM
Last ten #27 picks


Jordan Crawford
JuJuan Johnson
Arnett Moultrie
RUDY GOBERT
Bogdan Bogdanovic
Larry Nance Jr
PASCAL SIAKAM
Kyle Kuzma
Robert Williams
Mfiondu Kebengele


Not too bad....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 11, 2020, 02:42:16 PM
I think you all forget OKC was 40-24 this year.

Dealing Chris Paul is not at the forefront of their thinking.  Has to be an excellent deal.

More likely to a Miami or a Utah than a new York.
Title: Re: Another point on CP3
Post by: Kam on May 11, 2020, 02:55:27 PM
Quote from: chipstern on May 11, 2020, 01:46:29 PM

With the caveat that if God forbid the Thunder would accept Randle, Ellington and Smith for Paul, then that could arguably justify eviscerating our cap space for two years while we build a core of puppies. 

Could justify but EVEN with your caveat I'm not so sure i would do it.  If the cap drops from say 110mil to 90mil then that 44mil on the final year would represent half the cap.  Would need assurances that salaries could get deferred and count maybe 50% against the cap so we could still build through free agency in the summer of 2021.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 11, 2020, 02:57:25 PM
Chip, It’s ok to have an expensive roster. Teams do it all the time.

—————
It would be a very bad idea to try and start up the NBA again until the 2020-2021 season dates roll around. I think the league knows any earlier plans are nuts, they’re just not ready to say it out loud yet.
—————
As for the price of Paul,

We’re looking at two years beyond the current year where Paul by himself would be keeping us at the cap and our available roster building tools would be picks, exceptions, min salary FAs, and extending young players showing promise when their deals come up.

If after this year and next, Paul wants some veteran help, he can decline his option and take a smaller deal or split his money over two years. If not we maintain the steady development plan.

We don’t have Dotson or Trier to offer OKC. I could see them wanting Payton over Smith. With Paul and Frank on board, I’m ok with losing Payton and keeping Smith to possibly use in a later deal while hoping he puts it together under the tutelage of Paul.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on May 11, 2020, 03:14:27 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 11, 2020, 02:37:51 PM
Last ten #27 picks


Jordan Crawford
JuJuan Johnson
Arnett Moultrie
RUDY GOBERT
Bogdan Bogdanovic
Larry Nance Jr
PASCAL SIAKAM
Kyle Kuzma
Robert Williams
Mfiondu Kebengele


Not too bad....

By George, I think he's got it. 

Which is why you do not package players and our two first round picks for LaMello Ball. 

For Zion Williamson?  You fucking bet. 

For Jah Morant?   Mmmmm, sure, he has an all-around game with no holes. 

Sure things.  BOOM. 

At #3, our RJ showed flashes of brilliance, while in other aspects, a work in progress. 

LaMello a first rate facilitator, but defense and long range shooting up for grabs.  BOOM OR BUST,  Not bust, but boom?  A work in progress.

Would I roll the dice on him with a top 3 or top 6 pick (presuming the unlikely drop down the draft board)?  Sure. 

I have a feeling that if the Warriors have the #1, the smart money says Edwards, but I don't see it.  Great prospect, but on the Warriors, Ball wouldn't have to be a sharpshooter right away, and he could work on his offense AND defense in a nurturing, disciplined environ. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 11, 2020, 04:08:59 PM
Not giving up on that Barrett may be better than Marant
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 11, 2020, 04:10:46 PM
If Warriors want back in the NBA Final 4 maybe they deal with Knicks - give us the top pick for our two picks and usable talent, offset by some future talent coming back our way as well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 11, 2020, 04:15:45 PM
Nah, never mind - they seem seriously capped out the next 2 years
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 11, 2020, 07:42:05 PM
http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2020/5/11/21255046/knicks-to-reimburse-season-ticket-holders-for-the-remaining-home-games-of-2019-20 (http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2020/5/11/21255046/knicks-to-reimburse-season-ticket-holders-for-the-remaining-home-games-of-2019-20)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 12, 2020, 02:49:10 PM

Mohegan Sun, Las Vegas

24 courts built, 5 for TV coverage

All 30 teams' players, coaches and execs (and I assume media) housed there for the duration of THEIR remaining season.

Nobody leaves the complex

Sound good?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 12, 2020, 02:55:44 PM
Nobody leaves the complex for how long?

Since I'm sure this isn't in the CBA, would you just need to union to vote in favor? Could players opt out?

But it's not like you can have zero contact with the outside world.
How about if the virus gets in to where everyone is hunkered down?

Sounds sketchy unless you're just running a 2 or 3 weeks round-robin tourney.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 12, 2020, 03:10:59 PM
Nobody leaves the complex for how long?



til their team's season is finished, playoffs included
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 12, 2020, 03:31:47 PM
Let them play in Hazmat suits. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 12, 2020, 04:26:24 PM
Why?  They will be tested.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 12, 2020, 04:35:59 PM
What happens when Rudy GoBear tests positive again?

That'd be the end for his whole team, I would think (they'd all need to be quarantined).

Seems like the same situation where one player tests positive and the whole league is stymied.

I also don't think the players would agree to it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 13, 2020, 01:58:46 PM
Uh-oh:

Quote
Researchers at the Washington University School of Medicine gave young mice a single injection of the gene that makes follistatin, a protein that normally blocks another protein called myostatin, which modulates muscle growth. The therapy caused a significant buildup of muscle mass in the mice while also preventing obesity, the team reported in the journal Science Advances.

“We've identified here a way to use gene therapy to build muscle quickly,” said senior investigator Farshid Guilak, Ph.D
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 13, 2020, 05:17:43 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 13, 2020, 01:58:46 PM
Uh-oh:

Quote
Researchers at the Washington University School of Medicine gave young mice a single injection of the gene that makes follistatin, a protein that normally blocks another protein called myostatin, which modulates muscle growth. The therapy caused a significant buildup of muscle mass in the mice while also preventing obesity, the team reported in the journal Science Advances.

“We've identified here a way to use gene therapy to build muscle quickly,” said senior investigator Farshid Guilak, Ph.D

Sports in 10 years will just be robots and or e-sports.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51ulq%2BI7vHL._SY445_.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 14, 2020, 04:25:00 AM
(https://a1.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=%2Fphoto%2F2020%2F0508%2Fr696678_2693x3156cc.jpg&w=1140&cquality=40&format=jpg)

Willis is guarding the other 4 guys ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on May 14, 2020, 12:13:09 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 14, 2020, 04:25:00 AM
(https://a1.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=%2Fphoto%2F2020%2F0508%2Fr696678_2693x3156cc.jpg&w=1140&cquality=40&format=jpg)

Willis is guarding the other 4 guys ...



Willis is punching out the other four guys. 

DEFENSE
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 14, 2020, 02:39:57 PM
That's just how much attention Oscar Robertson required.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 14, 2020, 03:38:21 PM
Can't see getting van vleet?

Draft him

https://hoopshype.com/2020/05/13/grant-riller-charleston-nba-draft-prospect-interview/


Some will say "too old".  I prefer seasoned.
Title: Game of Zones
Post by: Kam on May 14, 2020, 04:11:22 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CStaxpRvKds (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CStaxpRvKds)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on May 14, 2020, 08:03:02 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 14, 2020, 02:39:57 PM
That's just how much attention Oscar Robertson required.

You Got THAT Right. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 15, 2020, 12:34:29 AM
Quote from: chipstern on May 14, 2020, 08:03:02 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 14, 2020, 02:39:57 PM
That's just how much attention Oscar Robertson required.

You Got THAT Right.

Sadly before my time. Maybe he’s made it to YouTube

That’s where I found this

http://youtu.be/BcmeLi75MT0 (http://youtu.be/BcmeLi75MT0)

Sheed!!!!!

#balldontlie
Title: The Big O
Post by: chipstern on May 15, 2020, 02:26:21 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on May 15, 2020, 12:34:29 AM
Quote from: chipstern on May 14, 2020, 08:03:02 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 14, 2020, 02:39:57 PM
That's just how much attention Oscar Robertson required.

You Got THAT Right.

Sadly before my time. Maybe he’s made it to YouTube

That’s where I found this

http://youtu.be/BcmeLi75MT0 (http://youtu.be/BcmeLi75MT0)

Sheed!!!!!

#balldontlie

When I was in the CubScouts, we went to a Knicks game in 1961 at the old Madison Square Garden on 50th & 8th Avenue.

Knicks Vs. Royals.

New York jumped on Cincy in the first quarter, something like 41-24 or thereabouts. 

Knicks had some great scorers.

Richie Guerin.  Jumping Johnny Green.  Willie Nauls. 

The Royals had OSCAR ROBERTSON.

Final score?

Royals 104, Knicks 103. 

The Big O had like 32 as I recollect.

I have posted this memory numerous times over the years. 

BoD even tracked down the original box score, which was very sweet of him.

Michael Jordan was a great player. 

Those ready to annoint him the greatest never saw Oscar Robertson, Jerry West, Elgin Baylor, Bill Russell, John Havlichek, Walt Frazier....
 
Title: May 15
Post by: chipstern on May 15, 2020, 02:27:30 PM
Happy Birthday

COLE ANTHONY
Title: Re: The Big O
Post by: bodiddley on May 15, 2020, 03:05:59 PM
Quote from: chipstern on May 15, 2020, 02:26:21 PM
When I was in the CubScouts, we went to a Knicks game in 1961 at the old Madison Square Garden on 50th & 8th Avenue.

Knicks Vs. Royals.
New York jumped on Cincy in the first quarter, something like 41-24 or thereabouts. 
The Royals had OSCAR ROBERTSON.
Final score?
Royals 104, Knicks 103. 
The Big O had like 32 as I recollect.

I have posted this memory numerous times over the years. 

43-21  1Q
105-104  Final (https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/196102120NYK.html)
32 for the Big O (1 assist off a trip-dub)

Oscar was a rook that season.
Title: Re: The Big O
Post by: chipstern on May 15, 2020, 03:18:57 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 15, 2020, 03:05:59 PM
Quote from: chipstern on May 15, 2020, 02:26:21 PM
When I was in the CubScouts, we went to a Knicks game in 1961 at the old Madison Square Garden on 50th & 8th Avenue.

Knicks Vs. Royals.
New York jumped on Cincy in the first quarter, something like 41-24 or thereabouts. 
The Royals had OSCAR ROBERTSON.
Final score?
Royals 104, Knicks 103. 
The Big O had like 32 as I recollect.

I have posted this memory numerous times over the years. 

43-21  1Q
105-104  Final (https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/196102120NYK.html)
32 for the Big O (1 assist off a trip-dub)

Oscar was a rook that season.

My God.

Didn't remember that he was a rook.

Just that he was commanding. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 15, 2020, 03:26:26 PM
Quote
Those ready to annoint him the greatest never saw Oscar Robertson, Jerry West, Elgin Baylor, Bill Russell, John Havlichek, Walt Frazier....

Of those, I only got to see late career Hondo.
Was at the RAC when the Nets gave him a tribute at halftime on his retirement tour/season.  They gave him a rocking chair.

I probably saw Clyde in a game or two on TV when I was fairly young and didn't know hoops.  It was only post-'73 championship when basketball became something I started hearing about a little.  First games I saw were Boston in the '74 playoffs, when we visited a friend of my father's and he had the game on.  I think it was the finals v. MIL.

Then Summer of '75 we moved crosstown where the neighborhood kids played hoops.  Then the Nets joined the NBA for '76-77 and started playing down the road at Rutgers.  Rutgers made the Final Four in '76.  We often played with a friend's redwhiteandblue ball, though the ABA was dead and buried by the time I heard of it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 15, 2020, 03:38:16 PM
1960-61 season.  79 game schedule.
An 8 team league.  6 teams made the playoffs.
The middle 4 teams duked it out in the 1st round.
Top 2 teams got byes.
So to win the championship, the Celts only had to win two rounds.
Just one round to get to the Finals.

9 teams starting the next year, for 6 years, until 10 in 67-68.
Then 14 in 68-69.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on May 15, 2020, 04:04:51 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 15, 2020, 03:38:16 PM
1960-61 season.  79 game schedule.
An 8 team league.  6 teams made the playoffs.
The middle 4 teams duked it out in the 1st round.
Top 2 teams got byes.
So to win the championship, the Celts only had to win two rounds.
Just one round to get to the Finals.

9 teams starting the next year, for 6 years, until 10 in 67-68.
Then 14 in 68-69.

The teams Celtics played were much tougher. 

Royals had a very good team.

Robertson
Twyman
Embry
Lucas

So did the Sixers

Jackson
Greer
Cunningham
Chamberlain

But the Celtics were a juggernaut.

Cousey. Havlichek. Sam Jones.  Heinson.  And that Bill Russell fellow. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 15, 2020, 04:52:04 PM
Quote from: chipstern on May 15, 2020, 04:04:51 PM
Cousey. Havlichek. Sam Jones.  And that Bill Russell fellow.

Folks like to say Pip was the greatest #2 ever.
But Cousy, Hondo, Sam Jones.
Stockton
Elgin. West once Wilt came.
Kareem with Magic
Wes Unseld
McHale
Dr. J after the coming of Moses

I'm sure there's more.

I guess Pippen was fully in the #2 role for almost a decade.
Stockton-Malone; Hayes/Unseld were 1-2 punches, near equals.
Though if you're good enough to be equal with a HoF #1, that's pretty damn good #2ing.
Latter-day Kareem; McHale, one of Russ' C playmates?

Nobody really gets around to making a list of Top 10 #2 options.
Though the way the virus is progressing, ESPn might get to it ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 16, 2020, 12:31:49 AM
Ewing - just a coaching NAG


https://sports.yahoo.com/mac-mcclung-transferring-georgetown-thats-212847261.html

(yeah - that's NOT ANY GOOD)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 17, 2020, 01:50:07 AM
Scuttlebutt has Indiana ready to shed a bit of salary. Their owner is in malls and is therefore looking to economize generally. This is understood to include his basketball team.

My proposal is Randle, Knox, and Smith for TJ Warren, and Victor Oladipo. We’d give them the Clippers pick, the protected Dallas pick and a second rounder somewhere.

We’d have

Mitch Taj
Warren Bobby
Barrett Bullock Ignas
Oladipo Ellington
Frank Payton

We’d get the lotto pick and start free agency with 5 guys we could stuff off for 41 million more in space.

It hurts them on my he floor in the short term, but gets them future assets and lots of flexibility with the player salaries they take back.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 17, 2020, 02:02:58 AM
I like it.  Gotta take advantage of Dolan's willingness to spend.
Title: Sweet dreams
Post by: carlos123 on May 17, 2020, 02:14:58 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on May 17, 2020, 01:50:07 AM
Scuttlebutt has Indiana ready to shed a bit of salary. Their owner is in malls and is therefore looking to economize generally. This is understood to include his basketball team.

My proposal is Randle, Knox, and Smith for TJ Warren, and Victor Oladipo. We’d give them the Clippers pick, the protected Dallas pick and a second rounder somewhere.

We’d have

Mitch Taj
Warren Bobby
Barrett Bullock Ignas
Oladipo Ellington
Frank Payton

We’d get the lotto pick and start free agency with 5 guys we could stuff off for 41 million more in space.

It hurts them on my he floor in the short term, but gets them future assets and lots of flexibility with the player salaries they take back.

That would be great Fac, nothing wrong with a sweet Saturday dream.

Now, how about all of our dreck plus Dolan for Luka Doncic and Cuban? We might as well dream big😁
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 17, 2020, 02:37:08 AM
yeah... good one.  2 excellent players for picks in the 20s

sure - they will bite

Warren has one of the ten best team friendly contracts in the NBA

Victor at 1 year 21 mil also a bargain.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 17, 2020, 02:38:20 PM
While we have financial strength and a willingness to spend some money, those are the deals we should be looking to make. We relieve teams of some of their financial obligations to players for the rights to that talent.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 17, 2020, 08:38:03 PM
Bright one

Indiana wishes to compete for a Finals slot - and are nowhere near in cap trouble.

Even OKC dealing Paul is sketchy.

Teams are taking ON players, not dumping them (see Wiggins to GS, etc)

The big story is the JAZZ, who may very well need to break up with Rudy Gobert for reasons unrelated to competition.  Wanna load them with picks?  Sure - let's hear the deal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on May 17, 2020, 09:00:34 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on May 17, 2020, 01:50:07 AM
Scuttlebutt has Indiana ready to shed a bit of salary. Their owner is in malls and is therefore looking to economize generally. This is understood to include his basketball team.

My proposal is Randle, Knox, and Smith for TJ Warren, and Victor Oladipo. We’d give them the Clippers pick, the protected Dallas pick and a second rounder somewhere.

We’d have

Mitch Taj
Warren Bobby
Barrett Bullock Ignas
Oladipo Ellington
Frank Payton

We’d get the lotto pick and start free agency with 5 guys we could stuff off for 41 million more in space.

It hurts them on my he floor in the short term, but gets them future assets and lots of flexibility with the player salaries they take back.

So....

You're projecting TJ as a PF?

And rolling the dice on the quite wonderful VO, PLUS TWO #1 picks (naturally) in the long honored Knicks tradition of overpaying for top tier talents after they have suffered crippling injuries, such as McDyess and Penny. 

All predicated on Indy wanting/needing to get ride of salaries rather than making a run at the EC Finals. 

SIGH. 

Hoping all is well with you and your family. 
Title: Meanwhile
Post by: chipstern on May 18, 2020, 12:58:45 PM
Have been sheltering with my daughter's family since March 18, when my son-in-law drove 19 hours round trip to get me out of NYC...just as things went bonkers. 

Been 20 minutes southwest of Charlotte ever since. 

Binge watching DEADWOOD, UNOROTHODOX, Ken Burns VIETNAM...down to the home stretch in MAD MEN. 

Last night before turning in I found a rerun of Game 3 of the 1993 Eastern Conference Semi-Finals between the Knicks and the Hornets.  THAT WAS FUN. 

Ewing, Oakley, Smith, Mason, Rivers, Starks
Mourning, LJ, Mugsy, Curry, Wingate, Gill, Johnny Newman

A healthy LJ in his second season, the Knicks at their league leading defensive peak under Padre Riles.  An epic playoff game between two tenacious, evenly matched teams. 

They went into overtime but it was time for me to turn in...Charlotte prevailed in OT.  Knicks won the series 4-1. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 18, 2020, 02:35:01 PM
Reminding me, Chip - that after giving three playoff seasons to the New York Knickerbockers - and at the ripe old age of 26 - we let J NEW sign with the Hornets.

Oy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on May 18, 2020, 09:06:38 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 18, 2020, 02:35:01 PM
Reminding me, Chip - that after giving three playoff seasons to the New York Knickerbockers - and at the ripe old age of 26 - we let J NEW sign with the Hornets.

Oy.

Hhe.

There have been countless OY Moments over the years. 

Just spent an hour and a half catching up with FWK on the phone and we shared many a lost moment. 

FWK, like Nagel, bemoans the fact that as we advance deeper into the autumn of our journey, there do not appear to be any Knicks championships on the event horizon. 

I'd settle for a good competitive team where we play defense, the ball moves around the horn, no hero ball dribbling into a triple team. 

Oh

AND NOT MAKE STUPID TRADES where we give up on some a year or two too soon, and watch them blossom for other teams, and toss in a bunch of #1 picks for good measure, if not out and out lottery picks (Like the pair of #1s and #2s from the Curry trade that turned into LaMarcus Aldridge and Joakim Noah). 

Johnny Newman being one inexplicable. 

Rod Strickland another. 

You probably don't agree, but I would surely count Trevor Ariza in there....should have grown old as our defensive ace, three point shooting plug and play, like Bruce Bowen for the Spurs. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 19, 2020, 12:20:20 AM
AND NOT MAKE STUPID TRADES where we give up on some a year or two too soon, and watch them blossom for other teams, and toss in a bunch of #1 picks for good measure, if not out and out lottery picks (Like the pair of #1s and #2s from the Curry trade that turned into LaMarcus Aldridge and Joakim Noah).


yeah - we may have blown the picks anyway (like if we didnt pick Weis we would not have definitely taken Artest) - and it should be noted there were no pick protections back then.

Knicks had every reason to think theyd be picking lower those years.

You have to OWN not dealing Frank and Knox, you know.  Not giving you a pass on that later on.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 19, 2020, 12:24:28 AM
But I do agree that trading Galinari and the picks that became Dario Saric and Jamal Murray to get Melo was idiotic..  Didnt you like that deal?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 19, 2020, 12:54:52 AM
Hoped for the best when it happened, but hated the deal. Hated it more when Melo refused to attempt to become a Kobe or a Michael, at least on offense when he was given the chance to try, after taking a fucking extension.

The Curry trade was worse. At least Melo got us the long toothed assassin gang that crashed badly on Mt. Hibbert, so close to the summit. Curry never found big boy pants at all as a basketball player.

We signed a Jazz guy as a new Assistant GM. The Jazz have drafted well & he gets some cred for that. He’s also worked with Perry somewhere before.

The Big3 have packed in their season this year. Looking to kick it off again in 2021.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 19, 2020, 01:00:02 AM

Good trivia on Ariza - he has played the third most games of any player drafted in 2004, having been selected 43rd.

Just Dwight Howard and Andre Iguodola ahead of him
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 19, 2020, 12:22:27 PM
https://hoopshype.com/rumor/knicks-hiring-frank-zanin-as-assistant-gm/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on May 19, 2020, 12:44:44 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 19, 2020, 12:24:28 AM
But I do agree that trading Galinari and the picks that became Dario Saric and Jamal Murray to get Melo was idiotic..  Didnt you like that deal?

I FUCKING DID NOT. 

I hated the Carmelo Trade, and was violently opposed, even though I came to respect Melo's play.

Of course we traded away so many fucking assets and draft picks, we were never able to build a team about him, which is on MELO, as he wanted his money RIGHT NOW, when he could've signed as a free agent that coming summer. 

We gave up TWO #1 picks and TWO #2 picks, not to mention Gallo, Chandler, Mozgov (I was roundly mocked for decrying tossing him in, and while he didn't pan out due to injuries and the changing NBA, he proved a valuable asset in future trades). 

We gave up TWO #1 picks and TWO #2 picks to get Curry, like wise to get Marbury.  ALL LOTTERY PICKS. 

We gave up two lottery picks to get Gerald Henderson and Juuwan Oldham.

And I will happily own NOT TRADING KEVIN AND FRANK. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on May 19, 2020, 12:47:27 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on May 19, 2020, 12:54:52 AM
Hoped for the best when it happened, but hated the deal. Hated it more when Melo refused to attempt to become a Kobe or a Michael, at least on offense when he was given the chance to try, after taking a fucking extension.

The Curry trade was worse. At least Melo got us the long toothed assassin gang that crashed badly on Mt. Hibbert, so close to the summit. Curry never found big boy pants at all as a basketball player.

We signed a Jazz guy as a new Assistant GM. The Jazz have drafted well & he gets some cred for that. He’s also worked with Perry somewhere before.

The Big3 have packed in their season this year. Looking to kick it off again in 2021.

YES. 

Two GOOD Hires by Rose. 

A Cap Master & A An ACE SCOUTING Wiz, both with good people skills around the game/league. 

And heretofore no affiliations with MSG. 

PS: At scouting combines the great Phil Jackson was often observed napping. 
Title: The grass ain't always greener
Post by: Kam on May 19, 2020, 01:19:29 PM
Melo trade would've worked out a lot better if Stoudemire's legs held up.
As it stood, what were we going to achieve with Gallo and Mozgov when Amare went down?
Melo got us to a higher level than we would've otherwise been able to sniff.
Sometimes you have to accept that no alternative would've produced nearly as high a return.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 19, 2020, 01:41:30 PM
Even given the premise that Felton would have fallen off the wagon eventually and couldn’t have sustained his pre-trade level of play, you still discounting Wil Chandler. They had a good post-Melo run in Denver and were fun to watch.

We’d have had a good, young, growing team in New York with room to add talent.

At least Melo helped us get the old head team together. That was pretty darn good.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 19, 2020, 01:59:49 PM
Quote from: chipstern on May 19, 2020, 12:47:27 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on May 19, 2020, 12:54:52 AM
Hoped for the best when it happened, but hated the deal. Hated it more when Melo refused to attempt to become a Kobe or a Michael, at least on offense when he was given the chance to try, after taking a fucking extension.

The Curry trade was worse. At least Melo got us the long toothed assassin gang that crashed badly on Mt. Hibbert, so close to the summit. Curry never found big boy pants at all as a basketball player.

We signed a Jazz guy as a new Assistant GM. The Jazz have drafted well & he gets some cred for that. He’s also worked with Perry somewhere before.

The Big3 have packed in their season this year. Looking to kick it off again in 2021.

YES. 

Two GOOD Hires by Rose. 

A Cap Master & A An ACE SCOUTING Wiz, both with good people skills around the game/league. 

And heretofore no affiliations with MSG. 

PS: At scouting combines the great Phil Jackson was often observed napping.

But wait, there’s more!

http://knickerblogger.net/newsday-knicks-finalizing-deal-with-frank-zanin-to-be-assistant-gm-source-says/ (http://knickerblogger.net/newsday-knicks-finalizing-deal-with-frank-zanin-to-be-assistant-gm-source-says/)

Leon’s getting the band together.

“I pulled into Nazareth feelin bout half past dead...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 19, 2020, 02:14:35 PM
Melo trade would've worked out a lot better if Stoudemire's legs held up.


As would have Curry's deal if HE (and others) had held up

See how that works?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 19, 2020, 02:31:22 PM
We gave up TWO #1 picks and TWO #2 picks to get Curry, like wise to get Marbury.  ALL LOTTERY PICKS.


Yeah - as I said - didnt appear we'd be giving up a 5 and a 9 overall when we made the deal.

Chandler was OUR pick that we got back in that deal as well.  Lower than 9 (Noah), but a later first which we did (surprisingly) hit on.

Curry was a very good player at the time.  And he played well for us his first 2 full years.

Was either Larry Brown or Isiah Thomas the right coach for him?  That is debatable - and also on Curry to not be able to excel in any situation.

LB's playing Mali Rose and Mo Taylor over the rookie Lee.... and his shenanigans in general set the franchise back - and turning to Isiah was a silly remedy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 19, 2020, 02:44:08 PM
Curry was overweight and didn't play D.  Unsurprisingly he got injured.
I didn't want Curry and much preferred waiting to get TyC.
Of course later when we finally did we had a weirdly balanced team of Melo-Amare-TyC.

I was fine with the Melo trade.  We gave up a good deal to get a prime star who at the time was also one of the best clutch players (along with Pierce).  Melo apparently wasn't willing to wait for Summer (which would have been best for NYK and Melo).  And if we didn't trade for him, Nets probably would have.  We might have wound up with Deron then.  Who was a damned good player, but lost his motivation.

The Melo trade was one that benefited both teams, but not enough to make much difference for either.  Wil and Gallo had trouble staying healthy.  Melo was selfish on court and played poor D.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 19, 2020, 02:47:26 PM
Curry was overweight and didn't play D.  Unsurprisingly he got injured.


You don't know shit about this great game.

Curry's strength never was - and never was going to be his defense.  To paint him as lazy and a low level athlete is a shit for brains take.

He got hurt because he got hurt

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 19, 2020, 02:55:07 PM
Eddy vs Shaq

Diesel gets flattened

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQ8qKHm4_Vk
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 19, 2020, 03:05:05 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 19, 2020, 02:55:07 PM
Eddy vs Shaq

Diesel gets flattened

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQ8qKHm4_Vk

Hey, Big Snacks looked good for a whole series one time. No love for Snacks?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 19, 2020, 03:29:11 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 19, 2020, 02:14:35 PM
Melo trade would've worked out a lot better if Stoudemire's legs held up.


As would have Curry's deal if HE (and others) had held up

See how that works?

No. Curry deal was bad because Curry was bad and then unhealthy.  Melo was neither. 
What teammate of Curry's took up a max salary and missed as many games?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 19, 2020, 03:36:02 PM
Again for those who aren't getting it:

The reason the Melo trade made sense at the time (and dealing the youth and picks) was because we had invested in Amare' who had a very short window even without hindsight.  Amare and a team on pups was not going to do much (especially when both Chandler and Gallinary had their own injury issues).

If we hadn't gone after Amare (Who was 'Plan D' after missing out on LeBron, Bosh, Wade et al) we would probably have not felt the urgency to make a swing for the fences deal with Melo.

So i trace the deals back to Donnie Walsh in 2008 coming in and not giving a fair deal to David Lee, saving and losing for two years to clear the books for the Summer of 2010 and then striking out, desperately signing Amare and putting the team on a short time frame.

Had he invested in DLEE and had the Knicks stayed away from starchasing in free agency we could've had a young team, the young core everyone was hoping not to trade away.  Once the die was cast with Amare instead of Lee the wheels were in motion to add a "second star"
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 19, 2020, 03:38:58 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on May 19, 2020, 01:41:30 PM
Even given the premise that Felton would have fallen off the wagon eventually and couldn’t have sustained his pre-trade level of play, you still discounting Wil Chandler. They had a good post-Melo run in Denver and were fun to watch.


A) Chandler is a career journeyman.   
B) We were damn fun to watch for a while there and almost got to the East Finals
C) We did get Felton back at some point.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 19, 2020, 03:55:44 PM
When you have a young team doing things you want a vet team to do and they are keeping their nose near the water line while trending up, I’d rather keep that rolling than tear it down for a mishmash of talent at a couple of positions and hoping you can hold it all together by adding from the cast off pile to fill it out. Giving it a year or two to figure it out would have been just as fun to watch and would have left us ready for the next starphuck crapshoot a year or two down the line, not that there’s anything wrong with that.
Title: For THOSE Who ARE GETTING IT
Post by: chipstern on May 19, 2020, 04:32:44 PM
The "justification" was BS then and is BS now, and this from someone who got with Melo based on what he did when he got here. 

TYPICAL KNICKS FAN INSTANT GRATIFICATION. 

We should have insisted Melo wait until the summer to sign on as a free agent, but he floated the idea of signing with the NYETS and the Knicks FREAKED and CAVED and FOLDED like a cheap beach chair.   

We had a winning record, and a young team with good chemistry, chaired by our free agent Stoudamire, and a PG in Felton was peaking and having a career year. 

We basically mortgaged our present and our future, and gelded the cajones of anyone looking to add talent to surround Melo with. 

Forget for a moment that Ujiri anally raped Donnie and Dolan on draft picks. 

He basically got us to give up...

Our starting point guard in Felton.

Our starting center in Mosgov

Our starting small forwards in Gallinari and Chandler.

Curry and that PF we got in the GS/Lee deal made the numbers work. 

Billups was a good man, but on his last legs.  All the other pieces we got back were basically garbage. 

The one piece, I forget his name, that big rangy SF who played for Donovan in Florida, that we didn't even give a look see at before waiving him.  He went on to chart several years as a solid defensive player on a number of teams. 

So spare us the condescension,  Kam. 

PS: Once before in Knicks history we traded our starting PG and our starting Center a hall of famer) in a big deal that DID NOT INCLUDE ANY FUTURE DRAFT PICKS, and left our core of youth intact. 

PPS: Komives and Bellamy for DeBusscherre, which worked out pretty good.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on May 19, 2020, 04:36:19 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 19, 2020, 03:36:02 PM
Again for those who aren't getting it:

The reason the Melo trade made sense at the time (and dealing the youth and picks) was because we had invested in Amare' who had a very short window even without hindsight.  Amare and a team on pups was not going to do much (especially when both Chandler and Gallinary had their own injury issues).

If we hadn't gone after Amare (Who was 'Plan D' after missing out on LeBron, Bosh, Wade et al) we would probably have not felt the urgency to make a swing for the fences deal with Melo.

So i trace the deals back to Donnie Walsh in 2008 coming in and not giving a fair deal to David Lee, saving and losing for two years to clear the books for the Summer of 2010 and then striking out, desperately signing Amare and putting the team on a short time frame.

Had he invested in DLEE and had the Knicks stayed away from starchasing in free agency we could've had a young team, the young core everyone was hoping not to trade away.  Once the die was cast with Amare instead of Lee the wheels were in motion to add a "second star"

Agree with you on Donnie and the David Lee trade in particular. 

There was this narrative which held that he was not worth the FA dollars and put up empty stats. 

Right.  His final year he was good for 20-10 a night.  And we got back GARBAGE. 

PS: BoD points out that Chandler and Gallo had trouble staying healthy, and this is a fact.  However, how many years later than they are still effective players when healthy, and those two #1 picks and two #2 picks sure would've come in handy.  And of course, Amare's legs gave out, so....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on May 19, 2020, 04:59:38 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on May 19, 2020, 03:55:44 PM
When you have a young team doing things you want a vet team to do and they are keeping their nose near the water line while trending up, I’d rather keep that rolling than tear it down for a mishmash of talent at a couple of positions and hoping you can hold it all together by adding from the cast off pile to fill it out. Giving it a year or two to figure it out would have been just as fun to watch and would have left us ready for the next starphuck crapshoot a year or two down the line, not that there’s anything wrong with that.

Rose appears--APPEARS--to be gearing up for a slow approach to the runway.  Mills signed off on a huge scrum of vets, too many to accommodate, irrespective of their relative talent, and the logjam basically derailed the theoretical youth movement of Fizz's first season. 

I am fine with being patient with our youth and nurturing them going forward. 

Free agency is something of a mirage.  We have reeled in nothing but sloppy seconds for as long back as I can remember. 

Reading in the POST (naturally) about how we might have sudered our chances at Giannis...well, that's a non-starter.  They have a good coach, a good system and have constructed an effective roster about him.  He WAS NEVER COMING HERE, any more than Kawhi. 

Now, if I might be so bold, and proffer a marginally less implausible wet dream.  [NOTE: Fat Chance]

The 2019-2020 season was inclining towards a Lakers-Bucks finals. 

And while LeBron shows no signs of slowing down, he will be 36 come December 2020.

The Lakers assembled a veteran team about him designed to win NOW. 

ANTHONY DAVIS just turned 27 this past March.  I would expect him to pick up his player option for 2020-21.

In the summer of 2021 that makes him an unrestricted FA, with LeBron entering his $40 Million + Plus player option
decision that summer. 

Things that make you go....hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 20, 2020, 08:45:47 AM
Why were the Bulls eager/willing to ditch Eddy Curry?
I don't think Curry was that interested in basketball, except as a source of income and probably fame. 

Too bad we don't have the archives of this forum's past.
I'd like to see who was on board with Curry and what their arguments were.
I correctly surmised he would be a bum (he did manage to give us one pretty good year).  A low impact player.
Title: Re: For THOSE Who ARE GETTING IT
Post by: Kam on May 20, 2020, 09:00:58 AM
Quote from: chipstern on May 19, 2020, 04:32:44 PM

We had a winning record, and a young team with good chemistry, chaired by our free agent Stoudamire, and a PG in Felton was peaking and having a career year. 


Stoudamire gave us half a season of MVP ball. That was fun.  The rest of his tenure was torture.  Punching the fire extinguisher?  Fucking bonehead cost us playoff games.  But Melo gets all the blame here for wanting what we happily gave to the uninsurable Amare.  Felton had a year or two left before he got too fat.  That pre-Melo squad had no legs.  It was a mirage. Chandler got hurt. Gallo got hurt.  Mozgov became an albatross.  It would've taken years before that miasma would have produced a playoff series win - if ever. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 20, 2020, 12:41:38 PM
Why were the Bulls eager/willing to ditch Eddy Curry?


Simple

They had 2 centers

They were not winning

They were YOUNG - and had backcourt scorers - dint want to be a slow down post up team

They were not winning

They needed a volume deal - bringing in more bodies than they sent out

They were NOT WINNING

(Bulls had 3 poor years with Curry/Chandler and stood at 26-23 when the deal wa made, behind rookies DuHon, Gordon and Deng.)

Chandler/Curry deals were expiring - Tyson's new deal started at 9 mil - and yep, you guessed it - they dealt him too - as Noah was about to arrive.  PJ Brown - JR Smith coming in that deal.

Game was changing.  Post ups were an ancient thought - due to AAU process.  This continues to today's game - in spades.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on May 20, 2020, 12:52:33 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 20, 2020, 08:45:47 AM
Why were the Bulls eager/willing to ditch Eddy Curry?
I don't think Curry was that interested in basketball, except as a source of income and probably fame. 

Too bad we don't have the archives of this forum's past.
I'd like to see who was on board with Curry and what their arguments were.
I correctly surmised he would be a bum (he did manage to give us one pretty good year).  A low impact player.

I vaguely recall that back in the day I pronounced myself upset that we didn't pursue Tyson Chandler instead. 

But I also recall being lifted by Vindaloo Curry's 19-7 season, before he dissolved into protoplasm. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 20, 2020, 01:10:14 PM
Quote from: chipstern on May 20, 2020, 12:52:33 PM
I vaguely recall that back in the day I pronounced myself upset that we didn't pursue Tyson Chandler instead. 

No, you have that totally wrong.
I advocated holding out for TyC, and you kept saying too bad he isn't available.
And that Curry was available and would be a knick upgrade.
You were in on Curry; Bo was out.

And not too long after TyC was traded as well.
Title: BIG TITS SINK KNICKS [Re: For THOSE Who ARE GETTING IT]
Post by: chipstern on May 20, 2020, 01:24:25 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 20, 2020, 09:00:58 AM
Quote from: chipstern on May 19, 2020, 04:32:44 PM

We had a winning record, and a young team with good chemistry, chaired by our free agent Stoudamire, and a PG in Felton was peaking and having a career year. 


Stoudamire gave us half a season of MVP ball. That was fun.  The rest of his tenure was torture.  Punching the fire extinguisher?  Fucking bonehead cost us playoff games.  But Melo gets all the blame here for wanting what we happily gave to the uninsurable Amare.  Felton had a year or two left before he got too fat.  That pre-Melo squad had no legs.  It was a mirage. Chandler got hurt. Gallo got hurt.  Mozgov became an albatross.  It would've taken years before that miasma would have produced a playoff series win - if ever.

All interesting conclusions.  Amare's dissolution being first and foremost among the fade to whack. 

And without debating the merits of your sundry conclusions, one FACT is inescapable. 

As well as Melo performed, when gifted the center ring in the Knicks circus, his fundamental egotism, his insistence on getting his money not once BUT TWICE, handcuffed the Knicks and their ability to surround him with players who would have complemented his skill set. 

* Those draft picks were irretrievable opportunities to replenish our stock of young/high upside players to play with him. 

* His max/no trade contract on the re-up hampered our cap space, and ONCE AGAIN, the Knicks were unable to surround him with players who might have enabled him 

Denver sends Melo, Chauncey Billups, Shelden Williams and Renaldo Balkman to the Knicks in exchange for Wilson Chandler (there goes that pick), Danilo Gallinari (and that one), Raymond Felton, Timofey Mozgov, one first (2014) and two seconds.

As it so happens, ironically, Denver used that #1 to select Doug McDermott (who was later involved in the OKC Melo trade which also brought us Kanter and Mitchell Robinson).

And what players were available after McDermott?

Zach Levine.  TJ Warren.  Jusuf Nurkić.  Gary Harris.  Clint Capella.  Bogdan Bogdanović

FOOTNOTE: Ace basketball handicapper Phil Jackson chose Cleanthony "Strip Club" Early at  #34 in that same 2014 Draft.  Who were selected afterwards that Phil might have tapped?  Spencer Dimwiddie.  Nikola Jokić.  Jordan Clarkson.  AGONY.

MORAL OF THIS STORY: Be careful with what you wish for and never, NEVER, discount the value of any draft picks.  This narrative is already doubling down on itself with fans eager to toss the Dallas #1 picks into any manner of deals, because they will "Only" be late first round picks.  Looking at the talent that panned out on #2 picks after Early dropped off the grid, one is heartened that among Rose's hires for Assistant GMs are cap space and scouting experts with verifiable track records. 

PS: No more wire hangers.  NO MORE MELO TRADES...or Curry Or McDyess Or Bargnani Or Marbury Or Strickland Or Gerald Henderson TRADES.  Big Tits > Knicks > DESPAIR. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on May 20, 2020, 01:25:31 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 20, 2020, 01:10:14 PM
Quote from: chipstern on May 20, 2020, 12:52:33 PM
I vaguely recall that back in the day I pronounced myself upset that we didn't pursue Tyson Chandler instead. 

No, you have that totally wrong.
I advocated holding out for TyC, and you kept saying too bad he isn't available.
And that Curry was available and would be a knick upgrade.
You were in on Curry; Bo was out.

And not too long after TyC was traded as well.

I am truly humbled. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 20, 2020, 01:56:44 PM
But I also recall being lifted by Vindaloo Curry's 19-7 season, before he dissolved into protoplasm.


Yeah, like I said - quite a good player (as video vs Shaq does show)

I think he was motivated to play.  But like Tyson says, once you get hit in the mouth.....(in this case, with Curry - once not 100%), all bets are off.  Eddy may have been lazy in his rehab and his want to in getting back near 100% - since he had plenty of dough.  I won't discount that as a possibility.  But on the court he WORKED.

FWIW - Knicks probably take Ty Thomas, not Aldridge - and Stephen Hawes, not Noah...   heh. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 20, 2020, 02:00:29 PM
I advocated holding out for TyC, and you kept saying too bad he isn't available.


Well, that WAS the case

Did we have a PJ Brown/JR Smith in their primes duo to send to the Bulls the following year, even if we allowed Curry to be dealt elsewhere?  Wasnt the option of doing nothing a bad one at the time?  Fans CLAMORED for a deal, not that we hold out and draft a guy 2 years later when we (surely) win just 23 games again.  Remember the ROOM AT THE TIME.  The Curry deal was fine in its theory.
Title: Melo
Post by: carlos123 on May 20, 2020, 02:11:56 PM
Chip, I agree with most of what you write here, but calling Melo an EGOTIST for wanting his money doesn’t fly. It’s a job, you work to get paid even if you like your job. If Phool J. was willing to pay max. then you need to give it to Phool J., especially given what he did next, just turn around and denigrate HIS max. player.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 20, 2020, 03:50:21 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 20, 2020, 08:45:47 AM
Why were the Bulls eager/willing to ditch Eddy Curry?
I don't think Curry was that interested in basketball, except as a source of income and probably fame. 

Too bad we don't have the archives of this forum's past.
I'd like to see who was on board with Curry and what their arguments were.
I correctly surmised he would be a bum (he did manage to give us one pretty good year).  A low impact player.

I was on board with Curry based on the extent of his ability to make crazy individual plays and his 19 and 7 (forgot he was ever that productive w Chicago, so I feel slightly less of a sucker). Since his  NY tenure, I have had much more emphasis on mental approach, awareness, fitness, and energy.

That’s why Hayes is up there with Ball and Edwards among my top three guards and Okongwu is ahead of Toppin and Advija among the forwards. It’s also why I like Killian Tille and Tyler Bey for later picks in this class.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 20, 2020, 04:00:25 PM
I always prefer C's who play D.  It's just a fundamental part of a team.

Melo showed profound disinterest in Linsanity.
Didn't make much effort to remedy his defensive deficiencies.
Loved to pound the ball.
And I consider myself a moderate Melo supporter.
Was in favor of the trade, though thought we gave up a lot.

No idea why Phil not only gave Melo a 5th year (which no other team could), but also gold-plated the re-up 5-year contract with a no-trade clause, upfront payments, and I think a trade kicker (or did I imagine that last bit)?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 20, 2020, 04:09:00 PM
Trade kicker for sure was given, but i *think* it was waived by Melo when he was traded to OKC.
Phil gave Melo the contract (slightly less than the MAX) and Melo should be faulted for accepting?  Hmm...

-----

Trade game:

What is the better trade for NY:
Gallinari, Chandler, and the two #1s  and two #2s for Melo^ and Billups.*
OR
Knox, Ntilikina, and two #1s for you choice of today's modern star. (Booker, Young, insertnamehere)

*Billups became amnestied for Tyson Chandler
^We still got Mitchell Robinson from that transaction
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 20, 2020, 04:22:54 PM
I'd certainly be investigating Knox's work habits and dedication.  We might want to move him before he has little value.  And if we draft a wing, then Knox is confined to backup status, with RJB the other starting wing. 

I'd prefer starting Knox a good deal next season (or if this one continues), to see what he can do.  Knox has an NBA body, but rarely uses it as such.  The way he takes it to the rack is oddly uninspired, as he makes himself smaller and opens himself up to getting blocked.  Might just be whether he can get his 3-ball to drop enough, to open up some fakes and driving lanes, and just boost his confidence level in general.  KK seems one of those players who gets down on himself.

He's still a pup, but right now there isn't anything he does well.  Every now and then he shows flashes, like popping in a 3 or driving for a dunk.  But such highlights are fairly rare.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 20, 2020, 04:38:02 PM
Knox, Ntilikina, and two #1s for you choice of today's modern star. (Booker, Young, insertnamehere)


uhhhhhh.........
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 20, 2020, 05:47:48 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 20, 2020, 04:38:02 PM
Knox, Ntilikina, and two #1s for you choice of today's modern star. (Booker, Young, insertnamehere)


uhhhhhh.........

KAT!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 20, 2020, 06:23:25 PM
Minny doesn’t do that, but

Mitch
KAT
Bullock
RJ
Payton

Might get 40 wins in the East...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 20, 2020, 11:59:51 PM
Towns



Gobert is the realistic target
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 21, 2020, 03:01:25 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 20, 2020, 04:38:02 PM
Knox, Ntilikina, and two #1s for you choice of today's modern star. (Booker, Young, insertnamehere)

uhhhhhh.........

I don't think that package gets you any young star, let alone KAT.
But you did say my choice.

Frank & Knox aren't garbage, but their value isn't much right now.  Two young guys who are trying to develop an NBA game before their rook contract is up.  They are small-time sweeteners.  The two #1's have appeal, but we're likely talking picks around #7.  They'd probably need to be unprotected, which teams hate to deal away.

My point is that you're not giving the trade partner even one starter, just a bunch of yute maybes.  You're not getting much that way.

If you want to make a deal and get a star, you likely have to give up Mitch and/or Randle (many teams won't want him due to his limitations and salary, especially his uni-positionality).  Elf is also an asset.  So is RJB, but his value to us is probably greater than for another team, and ideally you'd want to pair the new young stud with RJB.

I doubt the Knix have enough decent assets to get a young star.  Be a shame to move Mitch, but I was willing to do it in a Tangelo trade.  And Mitch would be expendable in a Gobert deal.

Knix just are not in good shape.
RJB & Mitch are all we really have.  Either could become legit or remain a borderline starter. 

It would really help if one of Knox, Franc, Jr. Smith found an NBA game.  But I think that's likely years away if at all.  None project as a starter now or for probably the whole of their next contract.

If ELF developed a reliable 3-ball he could be a solid PG starter.
If Portis could get his head together, he could become an average starter (maybe).

I still think all Knix will look better with a legit PG starter out there.  Especially El-Randle. (which is why I'd go for Chris Paul or Tangelo).   More coherent team offense and less sloppy freestyling would benefit Randle, Portis, Trier, Dot, RJB, Mitch.

The key prescrip for these Knix = get a legit PG starter . . .
Then a 6-month follow-up exam.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 21, 2020, 04:56:17 PM
I thought Elfrid played plenty well, as far as his affecting his teammates.  Didn't shoot it well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 21, 2020, 10:59:52 PM
Elfrid Payton is not going to develop a reliable outside shot in his seventh NBA season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 21, 2020, 11:49:44 PM
On the other hand his 2 point percentage is quite solid
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 21, 2020, 11:52:18 PM
How many guards (make that players) averaged 13, 9, 6 and 2 (steals) per 36 minutes last year?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 22, 2020, 03:24:29 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on May 21, 2020, 10:59:52 PM
Elfrid Payton is not going to develop a reliable outside shot in his seventh NBA season.

Probably true, but not unheard of.
Jason Kidd, fka ason Kidd, started making league average or better 3's in his 8th season on volume.
Brook Lopez took only 31 treys his first 7 years.   Y8 he attemnpoted 387 trips with near-league average %.

I'm sure there have been others.
In the past I think that was true, as poor outside shooters just wouldn't take 3's.
But now with everybody expected to be able to make 3's, I assume weak outside shooters who want to stay in the league or up their salary spend a lot of time getting their 3-ball form down.

For ELF, the main thing is to be able to knock down a wide open 3 when his man cheats away from him, or when his man goes under a screen.  That could be 3-5
3-FGA's a game.  Elf is pretty crafty on the drive and if guys have to play up on him or go over screens, Elf would get into the paint more and cause more havoc.
Elf simply needs to be able to make open 3's, and not hesitate when he has them.
That push shot needs reworking ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 22, 2020, 04:02:50 AM
(https://fanatics.frgimages.com/FFImage/thumb.aspx?i=/productimages/_3935000/altimages/ff_3935231-da2776feb73bc57b5c5falt1_full.jpg&w=900)

That top one is real ugly.
The other two acceptable.
I like the classic bottom one; but for a face mask covering, black is likely better than medium blue.

I guess 3/$25 isn't outlandish, as it's useful (especially in NYC and surroundings) and would be a keepsake/reminder of this weird 2020 year.  Maybe your grandkids could sell one for $100 in 50 years.  Of course by then $100 only gets you a cup of coffee.   Otoh, a Knick hat for $34 on the merch below is a complete rip. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 22, 2020, 05:54:40 AM
I hope Payton has done nothing but shoot since things shut down. Hopefully the time has helped him find a stroke, otherwise Frank is gonna take his job and never look back.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 22, 2020, 06:53:43 AM
Franc is more Rory Sparrow than Charlie Ward.

Knox, Ntilikina, and two #1s for you choice of today's modern star. (Booker, Young, insertnamehere)
[/quote]

The return of KZ!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on May 22, 2020, 11:54:55 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 22, 2020, 06:53:43 AM
Franc is more Rory Sparrow than Charlie Ward.


NONSENSE. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 22, 2020, 12:19:42 PM
I don't see Franc becoming a long-term starting PG. 
More of a complementary G off the bench.

Jerry Sloan, Hall of Fame N.B.A. Guard and Coach, Dies at 78 (https://dnyuz.com/2020/05/22/jerry-sloan-hall-of-fame-n-b-a-guard-and-coach-dies-at-78/)
Helluva coach.
His playing days were before my time.
But apparently the next day you always felt it if you played against Jerry Sloan.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 22, 2020, 01:32:31 PM
Quote from: chipstern on May 22, 2020, 11:54:55 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 22, 2020, 06:53:43 AM
Franc is more Rory Sparrow than Charlie Ward.


NONSENSE.

I agree

Sparrow was an excellent player. FN has a ways to go
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 22, 2020, 01:45:02 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 21, 2020, 11:52:18 PM
How many guards (make that players) averaged 13, 9, 6 and 2 (steals) per 36 minutes last year?

No guesses?

Answer:.  Just one.

It was ELFRID PAYTON
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 22, 2020, 01:53:48 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 22, 2020, 12:19:42 PM
I don't see Franc becoming a long-term starting PG. 
More of a complementary G off the bench.

Jerry Sloan, Hall of Fame N.B.A. Guard and Coach, Dies at 78 (https://dnyuz.com/2020/05/22/jerry-sloan-hall-of-fame-n-b-a-guard-and-coach-dies-at-78/)
Helluva coach.
His playing days were before my time.
But apparently the next day you always felt it if you played against Jerry Sloan.

Van Lier Sloan Boerwinkle Love......heh....drawing a blank on 5th starter
Chet Walker

Bob Weiss Clifford Ray Jimmy King our friend Howard Porter off the pine.

Porter was dealt to Knicks in another beauty as we surrendered the pick that became Maurice Lucas (Porter then dealt for a lesser #1 which became Bill Robinzine for KC after we traded it for Ron Behagen)
Oy.   
Even pre-Dolan.....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 22, 2020, 02:04:27 PM
I remember Rory Sparrow throwing a full court pass to a streaking player (Ewing?) for an alley-oop but instead of an assist the ball went through the net for a long three!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 22, 2020, 02:57:01 PM
You're right, Rory Sparrow was pretty good.
Franc has a long way to go get to that level.
I probably should have gone with Darrell Walker, but I was in a hurry (and always had a soft spot for Walker).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 22, 2020, 04:36:12 PM
Frank is starting to realize that he’s either bigger or quicker than the players sent to guard him. It’s giving him the confidence he’s needed to control the game on both ends.

Give Mike Miller some kind of training camp with Frank and RJ, and see what you get.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 22, 2020, 04:46:45 PM
Draft

3 and D guard

https://hoopshype.com/2020/05/10/baylor-jared-butler-nba-draft-stock-interview/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 22, 2020, 04:49:44 PM
Then there is Yoeli Child's.  6-8 does it all

https://hoopshype.com/2020/05/20/yoeli-childs-nba-draft-interview-byu-cougars/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 22, 2020, 06:11:51 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on May 22, 2020, 01:45:02 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 21, 2020, 11:52:18 PM
How many guards (make that players) averaged 13, 9, 6 and 2 (steals) per 36 minutes last year?

No guesses?

Answer:.  Just one.

It was ELFRID PAYTON

Don't get me wrong, Elfrid's a decent player; I like him enough. I just don't think he's a very good player for a team that can't shoot (us). Yes, there are a few guy's who came on late to shoot 3's, Kidd does jump to mind and Lopez. But Lopez is a different story, he always had a lovely touch, the 3 was just a shot he never took before, at all. Free throw ability is usually the tell. Kidd had brought up his FT % by 4th year and ended up shooting them in the 80s for the rest of his career. Elfrid is a career 62% free throw shooter. He ain't gonna become a 3 point shooter. Just ain't. Not even worth speculating on. Ready to see him move on unless our lineup drastically changes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 22, 2020, 07:09:27 PM
I think you have it backwards

Payton will stay on unless the team drastically changes.

This would include adding a lead guard in the draft - at which point we would allow Elfrid to leave IF we didnt deal Frank or Dennis.

This would also include adding CP3 of course.  Or Teague.  Or ________.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 22, 2020, 07:09:48 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on May 22, 2020, 04:46:45 PM
Draft

3 and D guard

https://hoopshype.com/2020/05/10/baylor-jared-butler-nba-draft-stock-interview/

Shades of Galloway, which is no knock at all. Sign him up for Westchester by all means.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 22, 2020, 07:15:53 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 22, 2020, 07:09:27 PM
I think you have it backwards

Payton will stay on unless the team drastically changes.

This would include adding a lead guard in the draft - at which point we would allow Elfrid to leave IF we didnt deal Frank or Dennis.

This would also include adding CP3 of course.  Or Teague.  Or ________.

We’re not dumping Elfrid for beans. Bringing what he does off the bench he’s an ideal stabilizer and tough competitor even without shooting. If he adds a steady deep ball, he’d be a quality starter at this point. Perhaps moving him to the bench will allow him to shot hunt a bit more and that way get more comfortable doing it.
Title: Pray for Patrick
Post by: Kam on May 22, 2020, 08:15:22 PM
Ewing hospitalized with the virus!
Title: Patrick Ewing reveals coronavirus diagnosis
Post by: carlos123 on May 22, 2020, 09:24:03 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 22, 2020, 08:15:22 PM
Ewing hospitalized with the virus!

“This virus is serious and should not be taken lightly,” Ewing said in a statement. “I want to encourage everyone to stay safe and take care of yourselves and your loved ones. Now more than ever, I want to thank healthcare workers and everyone on the front lines.

“I’ll be fine and we will all get through this.”
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 23, 2020, 05:06:34 AM
Eddy Curry recaps his life (https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us/articles/eddy-curry-nba-the-truth-was-way-worse)

Talks about his disinterest in basketball when he was young, and got forced into it because he was Big.  Details some of his bad decisions, wrong friends, scams he was subject to.  On the Knix, ECity was running the old Tim Thomas two-women, two-family scam which takes a lot out of one.

Quote
Looking back on everything now, I really do feel like, for the longest time, I was just in way over my head when I was in the NBA. I was a boy who went from playing with his train set to having millions of dollars, in the blink of an eye.
And I just wasn’t ready for it.

Quote
People I’d known my whole life, people I loved, would just straight-up lie and pull some of the foulest shit imaginable to try and rip me off.

Quote
And, on my end, after so many years of screwing up and showing poor judgment over and over again, I can finally say in all honesty that things really are different. I finally got to a point where I felt like, Man, I’m just tired of hurting Patrice.

Understandable that you're 19 and suddenly have fame and a $12M 4 year contract, and you get overwhelmed and make mistakes.  Curry didn't seem well-educated and it seems his family support wasn't that great. 

In comparison, TyC always seemed more mature, more grounded, more focused.
Also, played defense and stayed in shape.

Curry is only 37 today.  Played just 26 games across 5 seasons after he was 25.
TyC, also 37, managed a long and fairly distinguished career 19 year career.

At least after a lot of lows it seems Curry has found some peace and matured.  Article doesn't say what he does for a living or income.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 23, 2020, 05:55:38 AM

Quote from: Franc Nkilitina
I will tell you what MJ told me when I was 16.
I said, “Hello, Michael. Can I ask you, what is the key to all your success?”

He thought about it. Then he said, “What you have to do is love basketball. You can’t be great unless you really love the game. Once you love basketball more than anyone else in the world, then you’re willing to sacrifice. You’re willing to wake up early. You’re willing to do what it takes to be the best. But first, you have to really love it.”

It sounds simple, but the more I thought about it, the more it made sense in my life.   A lot of people are asking, “How good do you think you can be? What is your ceiling?” I don’t know the answer. I don’t know what’s going to happen in the NBA. But I do know that I really love the game more than anything.

So there you have it — this is why he is the legend. I have been thinking about
what he said for the past three years.

Thank you for your advice, Mr. Jordan.
Merci, GOAT

Is Franc just too nice?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on May 23, 2020, 02:56:50 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 23, 2020, 02:40:08 PM
I'd have liked Frank better had he called Jordan "Mike".

OK

Kii
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 23, 2020, 06:22:01 PM
https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/23/us/nba-return-disney-talks-spt-trnd/index.html
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 24, 2020, 04:50:09 AM
Oh please not Florida. They are extra stupid and sloppy there, especially over the last decade or so. It’s even worse now.

A draft outcome that will leave us in a nice spot to build out from next season,

Our 1st, should we get lucky enough: Anthony Edwards

Clippers first: Tyler Bey

Second rounder: Killian Tille

Barring deals, the locks would be:

Mitch
Randle Tille Knox
Barrett Bey Ignas
Edwards
Frank DSJ

Team options or partial guarantees:

Gibson
Portis
Bullock
Ellington
Payton

Renewable two ways that can become main roster minimums:

Allen
Wooten

Potential QO candidates:

Harkless
Dotson
Trier

I think Okongwu might wind up more impactful than Edwards by the tiniest littlest of bits, but drafting him necessitates finding a new home for Randle which may prove a pain in the ass.

Keeping with ball (meaning Edwards) in hand, among the guys we control with options or partial guarantees keepers would be Gibson, Wooten, Bullock, unless upgrades were available.

I’m on the fence between a year of Payton at his salary or Kadeem Allen at a 2 or 3 year minimum deal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 24, 2020, 02:45:34 PM
“Starting today, all the New York professional sports leagues will be able to begin training camps,” Cuomo said, via the New York Post. “I believe sports that can come back without having people in the stadium, without having people in the arena, do it! Do it! Work out the economics if you can. We want you up. We want people to be able to watch sports to the extent people are still staying home. It gives people something to do. It’s a return to normalcy. So we are working and encouraging all sports teams to start their training camps as soon as possible, and we’ll work with them to make sure that can happen.”
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 25, 2020, 03:36:33 AM
Have they figured out what the roster rules will be for teams when fist fulls of players go down With Covid?

Play short handed or pay more kids to jump into the pool?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 25, 2020, 10:11:17 AM
Quick thoughts on how to run it: first get a couple trainers and assistant coaches for each team in and quarantine them for a week, then start bringing in the players, maybe 3 or 4 at a time, young guys first, then a week later vets.  Do a one week quarantine for each group.  Try to keep players separate from other groups until every group has done a 2 week quarantine.  Might have a team together within a month.  Working out and practicing.  If no one is sick within that month then you have NBA players and coaches and trainers and refs able to interact and play games. 

You keep all those team folks away from the food servers and room cleaners and other staff as much as possible.  All those staff people wear masks and try to keep distance.  Probably want to restrict teams to 12 players instead of 15.  That reduces things by almost 100 people.  Those 3 end-of-the-bench players can still get their full salary.

Not sure how many people we're talking.
12 players.  Say just 3 coaches.  3 trainers.  2 med staff.  Whatever else I'm forgetting.  2 support staff.  Would be 20 people per team x 30 = 600.
A dozen refs -- four crews of 3. 
Camera people and technicians.  Announcers.
Whatever else I'm forgetting.

I guess you try to hold the total under 800 people, with a max of 1,000.
Most of the support staff would be ESPN/Disney employees.

Not sure if they are talking about finishing the season or heading straight to playoffs.  Playoffs make more sense to me, since the last 1/3 of the season isn't terribly meaningful.  And with playoffs, you get two teams matched up for a series of games, so you limit contact across all 30 teams.

Maybe can play an abbreviated schedule.  Say ten reg season games to get everyone back in shape for the playoffs.  Since everyone is in one spot, you can rejig the schedule so teams play a limited number of opponents, if you want.  might as well keep conferecnes separate during any reg season games, since the playoffs will do that anyway.
Title: Free Agents
Post by: chipstern on May 25, 2020, 01:42:48 PM
Ran across a story in Fansided suggesting five "realistic" options to possibly pursue in free agency.

https://hoopshabit.com/2020/05/24/new-york-knicks-5-realistic-options-in-upcoming-free-agency/ (https://hoopshabit.com/2020/05/24/new-york-knicks-5-realistic-options-in-upcoming-free-agency/)

I post it here as a public service.

Discuss amongst yourselves. 

Alec Burks
Jeff Teague
Davis Bertrans
Danilo Gallinari
Christian Wood

Interesting. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 25, 2020, 05:20:48 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on May 25, 2020, 03:36:33 AM
Have they figured out what the roster rules will be for teams when fist fulls of players go down With Covid?




Please - keep the negativity on the Trump board




Title: Pathogens Are Us
Post by: chipstern on May 25, 2020, 05:52:53 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 25, 2020, 05:20:48 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on May 25, 2020, 03:36:33 AM
Have they figured out what the roster rules will be for teams when fist fulls of players go down With Covid?




Please - keep the negativity on the Trump board

Shall we keep the infectious pathogens there as well. 

PS: "Fauci killed grandma."  Did someone just append that little dog yummy of editorial negativity to your post without your knowledge? 
Title: Re: Pathogens Are Us
Post by: facilitatorn on May 25, 2020, 06:08:59 PM
Quote from: chipstern on May 25, 2020, 05:52:53 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 25, 2020, 05:20:48 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on May 25, 2020, 03:36:33 AM
Have they figured out what the roster rules will be for teams when fist fulls of players go down With Covid?




Please - keep the negativity on the Trump board

Shall we keep the infectious pathogens there as well. 

PS: "Fauci killed grandma."  Did someone just append that little dog yummy of editorial negativity to your post without your knowledge?

Hey Chip, did you know Kiid is a Twat? He swears he’s an honest to goodness Twat from the old country. Who knew he had such a pedegree?

It does explain why he can’t get his head around basketball.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 25, 2020, 07:41:41 PM
My money is on playoff only format, if the season isn’t written off over all.

Euro league just canceled their season.
Title: Re: Pathogens Are Us
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 25, 2020, 09:19:39 PM
Quote from: chipstern on May 25, 2020, 05:52:53 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 25, 2020, 05:20:48 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on May 25, 2020, 03:36:33 AM
Have they figured out what the roster rules will be for teams when fist fulls of players go down With Covid?




Please - keep the negativity on the Trump board

Shall we keep the infectious pathogens there as well. 

PS: "Fauci killed grandma."  Did someone just append that little dog yummy of editorial negativity to your post without your knowledge?

It was said that you cant be too careful with the virus - but led by Fauci, we were.  And thus grandmas, instead of being admitted to hospitals where there WAS space, were placed back in nursing homes, where it did spread and kill

Please join the throng on the Trump forum.  Need new blood over there.
Title: Re: Pathogens Are Us
Post by: facilitatorn on May 25, 2020, 09:34:32 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 25, 2020, 09:19:39 PM
Quote from: chipstern on May 25, 2020, 05:52:53 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 25, 2020, 05:20:48 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on May 25, 2020, 03:36:33 AM
Have they figured out what the roster rules will be for teams when fist fulls of players go down With Covid?




Please - keep the negativity on the Trump board

Shall we keep the infectious pathogens there as well. 

PS: "Fauci killed grandma."  Did someone just append that little dog yummy of editorial negativity to your post without your knowledge?

It was said that you cant be too careful with the virus - but led by Fauci, we were.  And thus grandmas, instead of being admitted to hospitals where there WAS space, were placed back in nursing homes, where it did spread and kill

Please join the throng on the Trump forum.  Need new blood over there.

I’m still cleaning clotting clumps of Kiid off my shoes.

One of the few several tasks I do where I’m thankful about being behind a mask.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 25, 2020, 09:38:24 PM
Josh, Larry, Bo, Yank, and others do most of the work, but it is a big mess we get from Kiid. It’s hard not to step in it from time to time.
Title: Chico's Mysteries
Post by: carlos123 on May 25, 2020, 10:30:17 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on May 25, 2020, 09:38:24 PM
Josh, Larry, Bo, Yank, and others do most of the work, but it is a big mess we get from Kiid. It’s hard not to step in it from time to time.

What he really means is...

Chico killed grandma
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 26, 2020, 11:12:54 AM
I was expecting playoffs only.
But the advantage of playing an abbreviated 10 game schedule is it would generate interest in playoff races/seedings, get people back thinking NBA, allow players to get back in condition prior to the playoffs, and generate more $TV.

The downside is something goes wrong with the quarantine before you finish the playoffs.  And you have more teams playing diverse opponents, which entails more risk than just playoff series.
Title: Re: Chico's Mysteries
Post by: Kam on May 26, 2020, 12:03:32 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 25, 2020, 10:30:17 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on May 25, 2020, 09:38:24 PM
Josh, Larry, Bo, Yank, and others do most of the work, but it is a big mess we get from Kiid. It’s hard not to step in it from time to time.

What he really means is...

Chico killed grandma

More like, "I and others who voted for Trump killed grandma"
Title: Clotting Clumps
Post by: chipstern on May 26, 2020, 01:10:53 PM
Well played Facil. 

Just when you think it is safe to get back in the order, a turd come floating across the surface of the pool. 

WHO

ME?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 26, 2020, 01:49:53 PM
Facilatatorn has been pretty consistently amusing in the politics thread inventively ripping into Trump and mocking our resident rightwinger.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 26, 2020, 03:47:01 PM
heh

that's one word for it

Finally saw Uncut Gems (Netflix)

Pretty bad.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 26, 2020, 05:16:56 PM
Disliked Uncut Gems.  I hated the music and the close-up, shaky cam.  When the climax of the film involves one guy watching a basketball game on TV for 2 hours while three other guys are stuck in a vestibule fuming, you know something isn't clicking.  An ugly pointless film.

My Top 5 films of 2019 so far:
1.   Judy -- Zellweger is terrific; cacthes the time/place/vibe very well
2.   Jo Jo Rabbit -- quirky, a bit goofy, two terrific child performances
3.   The Last Black Man in San Francisco -- only saw 2/3rds of this on a plane, but it had heart and a message, and went in unexpected directions at times.
4.   Lighthouse - a taut & tense two-man drama; not everyone's cuppa
5.   American Factory - the access and culture clash is impressive; but there were more details that needed fleshing out

Honorable mention:
6.   Yesterday - light fantasy film that gets you interested in a Pakistani-Brit singing Beatles tunes.  Much preferred this to Blinded by the Light a similar tale of a Pakistani-Brit being inspired by Springsteen, which dragged at times and wobbled in tone.

17 of 21. Uncut Gems
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 26, 2020, 05:31:40 PM
Blinded by The Light - if you liked Yesterday
Title: Re: Chico's Mysteries
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 26, 2020, 05:36:01 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 26, 2020, 12:03:32 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 25, 2020, 10:30:17 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on May 25, 2020, 09:38:24 PM
Josh, Larry, Bo, Yank, and others do most of the work, but it is a big mess we get from Kiid. It’s hard not to step in it from time to time.

What he really means is...

Chico killed grandma

More like, "I and others who voted for Trump killed grandma"

Trump was not my candidate

And my vote didnt help
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 26, 2020, 06:16:07 PM
Watching Uncut Gems was two of the most unpleasant hours of my life.
Couldn't wait to get out of the theater.
Painful film about unlikeable people.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 26, 2020, 06:43:56 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 26, 2020, 05:16:56 PM
Disliked Uncut Gems.  I hated the music and the close-up, shaky cam.  When the climax of the film involves one guy watching a basketball game on TV for 2 hours while three other guys are stuck in a vestibule fuming, you know something isn't clicking.  An ugly pointless film.

My Top 5 films of 2019 so far:
1.   Judy -- Zellweger is terrific; cacthes the time/place/vibe very well
2.   Jo Jo Rabbit -- quirky, a bit goofy, two terrific child performances
3.   The Last Black Man in San Francisco -- only saw 2/3rds of this on a plane, but it had heart and a message, and went in unexpected directions at times.
4.   Lighthouse - a taut & tense two-man drama; not everyone's cuppa
5.   American Factory - the access and culture clash is impressive; but there were more details that needed fleshing out

Honorable mention:
6.   Yesterday - light fantasy film that gets you interested in a Pakistani-Brit singing Beatles tunes.  Much preferred this to Blinded by the Light a similar tale of a Pakistani-Brit being inspired by Springsteen, which dragged at times and wobbled in tone.

17 of 21. Uncut Gems


You must watch Parasite.   It practically swept the Oscars. 
Title: Re: Chico's Mysteries
Post by: carlos123 on May 26, 2020, 07:39:40 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 26, 2020, 05:36:01 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 26, 2020, 12:03:32 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 25, 2020, 10:30:17 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on May 25, 2020, 09:38:24 PM
Josh, Larry, Bo, Yank, and others do most of the work, but it is a big mess we get from Kiid. It’s hard not to step in it from time to time.

What he really means is...

Chico killed grandma

More like, "I and others who voted for Trump killed grandma"

Trump was not my candidate

And my vote didnt help

U still killed grandma.

Heh (that’s a quote, in case you missed it).

PS. Like BoZ, I’m with Fac.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 26, 2020, 08:05:45 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 26, 2020, 06:43:56 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 26, 2020, 05:16:56 PM
Disliked Uncut Gems.  I hated the music and the close-up, shaky cam.  When the climax of the film involves one guy watching a basketball game on TV for 2 hours while three other guys are stuck in a vestibule fuming, you know something isn't clicking.  An ugly pointless film.

My Top 5 films of 2019 so far:
1.   Judy -- Zellweger is terrific; cacthes the time/place/vibe very well
2.   Jo Jo Rabbit -- quirky, a bit goofy, two terrific child performances
3.   The Last Black Man in San Francisco -- only saw 2/3rds of this on a plane, but it had heart and a message, and went in unexpected directions at times.
4.   Lighthouse - a taut & tense two-man drama; not everyone's cuppa
5.   American Factory - the access and culture clash is impressive; but there were more details that needed fleshing out

Honorable mention:
6.   Yesterday - light fantasy film that gets you interested in a Pakistani-Brit singing Beatles tunes.  Much preferred this to Blinded by the Light a similar tale of a Pakistani-Brit being inspired by Springsteen, which dragged at times and wobbled in tone.

17 of 21. Uncut Gems


You must watch Parasite.   It practically swept the Oscars.

I am told TNT's Snowpierecer is by the same that did Parasite.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 26, 2020, 08:24:14 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 26, 2020, 08:05:45 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 26, 2020, 06:43:56 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 26, 2020, 05:16:56 PM
Disliked Uncut Gems.  I hated the music and the close-up, shaky cam.  When the climax of the film involves one guy watching a basketball game on TV for 2 hours while three other guys are stuck in a vestibule fuming, you know something isn't clicking.  An ugly pointless film.

My Top 5 films of 2019 so far:
1.   Judy -- Zellweger is terrific; cacthes the time/place/vibe very well
2.   Jo Jo Rabbit -- quirky, a bit goofy, two terrific child performances
3.   The Last Black Man in San Francisco -- only saw 2/3rds of this on a plane, but it had heart and a message, and went in unexpected directions at times.
4.   Lighthouse - a taut & tense two-man drama; not everyone's cuppa
5.   American Factory - the access and culture clash is impressive; but there were more details that needed fleshing out

Honorable mention:
6.   Yesterday - light fantasy film that gets you interested in a Pakistani-Brit singing Beatles tunes.  Much preferred this to Blinded by the Light a similar tale of a Pakistani-Brit being inspired by Springsteen, which dragged at times and wobbled in tone.

17 of 21. Uncut Gems


You must watch Parasite.   It practically swept the Oscars.

I am told TNT's Snowpierecer is by the same that did Parasite.

If it's anything like the Snowpiercer movie i wouldn't watch it.  The 2 hr movie was enough for me.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 26, 2020, 10:02:11 PM
I’m enjoying The Great.

Peter the Not Great is exactly the kind of person Kiid has attributed decisiveness and strong leadership skills to when they’ve appeared in American politics, GWB and the current abomination being prime examples. Kiid could learn something by watching, but regardless it’s great tv.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 27, 2020, 02:00:53 AM
Parasite just not my type of film.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 27, 2020, 11:20:38 AM
Cuban proposes something similar to what I did.  All 30 teams play 5-7 games (I assume the variety is to even out the games played).  And then playoffs.  Allows teams to try to get into the playoffs, re-establishes interest in the NBA ahead of the playoffs.  But all 30 teams is risky.

Going right to the playoffs with 16 teams eliminates nearly half the players/coaches/personnel.  And playoff series limits contact.  Safer, more manageable.

How about: a 6 team tourney to get the final two playoffs spots per conference.  Would allow 24 teams to play meaningful games.  12 teams already qualified and 12 teams battling for the last 4 spots.  Make it 8 teams per conference, playing best of 3 series, battling for 2 playoff spots, and you'd have all but 2 teams involved.

Essentially it would be like two playoffs.  A pre-playoff tourney of 16 teams, in short best-of-3 series, to get to the playoffs.  Then 2 teams from each conference advancing to the playoffs.  And you'd be able to design it as two 16 team playoffs.  So only half the league at a time involved.  More interesting and safer than completing some dull end of season slog.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 27, 2020, 01:30:05 PM
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29224715/mark-cuban-suggests-play-tournament-final-2-seeds-nba-playoffs (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29224715/mark-cuban-suggests-play-tournament-final-2-seeds-nba-playoffs)


Quote from: bodiddley on May 27, 2020, 11:20:38 AM

Going right to the playoffs with 16 teams eliminates nearly half the players/coaches/personnel.  And playoff series limits contact.  Safer, more manageable.


You can't get to 100% safe under either plan.  So safety is out the window as far as any plan that resumes play this season

The plan that offers the most level playing field should be adopted.  Give teams a chance to make the playoffs that not finishing the season would otherwise rob them of.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 27, 2020, 01:44:15 PM
ESPN with new Mock Draft. (https://www.espn.com/nba/draft/bestavailable)  With useful write-ups on each player.

1. Anthony Edwards
2  LaMelo Ball
3  James Wiseman

4 Isaac Okoro
5 Deni Avdija
6 Onyeka Okongwu

7 Obi Toppin
8 Tyrese Haliburton
9 Killian Hayes

10 RJ Hampton
11 Precious Achiuwa
12 Aaron Nesmith

13 Cole Anthony
14 Tyrese Maxey

More like what I was thinking.
With Ty Halibut and Obi in our range and Cole Ant a fair amount lower.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 27, 2020, 01:48:39 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 27, 2020, 01:30:05 PM
You can't get to 100% safe under either plan.  So safety is out the window as far as any plan that resumes play this season

Sure, cause safety is an all or nothing concept ...

Instead of all 30 teams together, my pre-playoff tourney would have half the league playing to start.  Then after that another 16 teams.  Take a week off in between to test and quarantine those 4 teams from the early tourney that make the playoffs.

Half the teams, a week break, then half the teams for the playoffs has to be easier and safer than all 30 teams finishing the season.  And it's all be series so two teams for nearly a week together, before the next round.  Not lots of mixing of teams.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 27, 2020, 03:05:50 PM
Safety breaks  down the moment you get one positive test.  Eliminating half the teams doesn’t reduce those chances enough in any significant way.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 27, 2020, 03:10:21 PM
Simply put: if it’s safe enough to play 16 teams it’s safe enough for all to play.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 27, 2020, 03:11:57 PM
By your logic they should just go directly to a one game finals.  Thus making it more safe.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 27, 2020, 03:19:23 PM
No idea what logic you are imputing to me, but simply having roughly 400 people involved is safer and easier logistically than having close to 800.  And limiting play to two-team series is safer than all 30 teams playing together jumbled like in the regular season. 

Mitigation measures and controlled risks.  Common sense.  Etc.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 27, 2020, 05:19:03 PM
Quote
The Knicks hired three executives Wednesday as they build the front office around new team president Leon Rose.

Brock Aller was hired as vice president of basketball and strategic planning, Walt Perrin is the assistant general manager for college scouting and Frank Zanin the assistant general manager for pro scouting.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29230894/knicks-hire-three-executives-work-leon-rose-front-office
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 27, 2020, 06:05:27 PM
lol...gotta agree with Kam here 100%...you don't put 400 people at risk if it's not safe for 800. And for an org like the NBA, there is absolutely no logistical difference between 400 and 800, this ain't the Yonkers boy scout troop.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 27, 2020, 06:32:40 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 27, 2020, 01:44:15 PM
ESPN with new Mock Draft. (https://www.espn.com/nba/draft/bestavailable)  With useful write-ups on each player.

1. Anthony Edwards
2  LaMelo Ball
3  James Wiseman

4 Isaac Okoro
5 Deni Avdija
6 Onyeka Okongwu

7 Obi Toppin
8 Tyrese Haliburton
9 Killian Hayes

10 RJ Hampton
11 Precious Achiuwa
12 Aaron Nesmith

13 Cole Anthony
14 Tyrese Maxey

More like what I was thinking.
With Ty Halibut and Obi in our range and Cole Ant a fair amount lower.

I  have money I will place on this being not at all accurate after the top 3.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 27, 2020, 06:34:47 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on May 27, 2020, 06:05:27 PM
lol...gotta agree with Kam here 100%...you don't put 400 people at risk if it's not safe for 800. And for an org like the NBA, there is absolutely no logistical difference between 400 and 800, this ain't the Yonkers boy scout troop.


Are uberathletic 20-30 somethings dropping in droves from this virus?  I must have missed it.
Title: Chico's favorites
Post by: carlos123 on May 27, 2020, 10:38:45 PM
...lashed out at Trump, calling him, among other things, “a complete blithering idiot,” “a shallow and broken man” and “the most disloyal actual retard that has ever set foot in the Oval Office.”
“There would be more decorum if you put Zippy the Chimp in the White House,” she said.

Do you know who twitted all of that and more?

A favorite of Chico's

PS. Apologies to Zippy the Chimp, whoever that may be.
Title: WE Deserve A Break Today
Post by: chipstern on May 28, 2020, 01:36:18 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 27, 2020, 06:34:47 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on May 27, 2020, 06:05:27 PM
lol...gotta agree with Kam here 100%...you don't put 400 people at risk if it's not safe for 800. And for an org like the NBA, there is absolutely no logistical difference between 400 and 800, this ain't the Yonkers boy scout troop.


Are uberathletic 20-30 somethings dropping in droves from this virus?  I must have missed it.

Wow

When they were passing out empathy and horse sense, you must have missed the lunch bell, but clearly went back for second helpings of alt-right uber alles conspiracy burgers with a side of Limbaugh Special Sauce. 

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcTIuFNAjDttcyab-op6ELpbEC3Php8qFtTGIDVAafTmF7l96gSc&usqp=CAU)

I seem to remember an uber athletic 20-something fellow the name of Ernie Davis, who was supposed to team in a dream Syracuse backfield with Jim Brown, succumbing to a virulent cancer back in my boyhood. 

And yes, many uber healthy young people have died of CV-19.  I've even known a few. 

Christ. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 28, 2020, 03:16:33 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on May 27, 2020, 06:05:27 PM
lol...gotta agree with Kam here 100%...you don't put 400 people at risk if it's not safe for 800. And for an org like the NBA, there is absolutely no logistical difference between 400 and 800, this ain't the Yonkers boy scout troop.

It's the amount of risk.  You take sensible measures to reduce the risk.  By doubling the NBA population to perhaps 800, you are obviously increasing the risk over having 400 players.  You make it safer for 400, by not having 800 people.  Common sense.

I'd mitigate the perceived acceptable risk by: 1) reducing the field to 16 teams instead of 30, nearly halving the participants; having teams play only series, so there is limited mixing of teams as there would be in a restarted reg season; and reducing teams to 12 players, thus dropping 90 50 unnecessary players.

Some of the logistics will be separating teams from each other off court as much as possible, which will be easier with 16 rather than 30 teams.   Some risk is inherent, risk reduction and mitigation is the goal.  Sensible limitations and restrictions.  Cautious is best.  Though now there's talk of teams being able to bring wives and children.
Title: Re: WE Deserve A Break Today
Post by: bodiddley on May 28, 2020, 03:57:40 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 27, 2020, 06:34:47 PM
Are uberathletic 20-30 somethings dropping in droves from this virus?  I must have missed it.

Dumb on many levels.  Early on there was a lot of concern for elderly coaches and announcers and statisticians et al.  Plus there are other support staff.

But you don't want to put your employees at risk, whether they are $10M athletic marvels or lockerroom attendants.  You certainly don't want a big outbreak among NBA players, which would be a PR nightmare, but also dissolve a lot of trust between the NBA execs and the players.  But even asymptomatic players going back to the community and infecting friends, family, community would be terrible. 

Also, the virus has badly harmed or killed some young athletic folks.  Early on there was a high school football player in TX who died.  But often we focus too much on deaths.  Some will have lifelong health issues from the virus, while others will have a miserable and scary few weeks.  They count too.

Also, some NBA players have underlying health issues such as enlarged hearts or connective tissue disorders.  Tauriaf and Jeff Green both had to have open heart surgery for aortic aneurysms; Bosh had to retire due to dangerous thrombosis; a few young guys such as Reg Lewis dropped from heart attacks.  NBA players aren't supermen, and even their bodies can succumb to pneumonia or other pernicious effects of the C-19 virus.  But again, not just them, but family and friends and their grandmamas.  (unless they're going to be quarantined for 2 weeks when their playoffs end -- which I think is unlikely).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 28, 2020, 04:50:13 AM
Kiid would totally send your kids dancing across minefields for his entertainment.

He’s bought into the human stock capital paradigm for thinking about people not himself for decades.

If they do it at all, they should keep it to no more than 16 teams.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 28, 2020, 11:43:00 AM
Why is 16 teams/400 players the magic # that would appease your need for safety?  You should want fewer teams/players if the goal is to limit transmission.   Like 8 teams. Or 4 teams. Heck, 2 teams.   16 teams just makes it "a better minefield".  You think you're doing something but you're feeding into a false sense of security. 

The NBA is thinking differently on this one.  Otherwise they would just cancel the season and punt on all playoffs.  I personally would be OK with that.  Just call it off TODAY and start planning for NEXT season.  But the NBA seems to think "we aren't going to EVER go back to how things were... so move forward in this new normal"
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 28, 2020, 11:58:49 AM
Quote from: Kam on May 28, 2020, 11:43:00 AM
Why is 16 teams/400 players the magic # that would appease your need for safety?

My need?  Weird.

16 teams/400 people is still a fairly large number.
Hopefully they could figure out how to make that reasonably safe.

16 teams allows you to complete a full slate of playoffs. 
And again series are safer than lots of mixed games.

And there's my other idea of having teams currently ranked from 13-28 play-in for the final 4 playoff spots.  A 16 team tourney in place of the rest of the reg season, in which 4 teams get playoff spots.  1st round can be best of 3, best of 5 after that.
Again just 16/400, only series, etc. 

Take a week (quarantine) break and then start the 16 team playoffs.

Obviously if they don't feel that 16/400 (my made up number of total people) is not safe enough and not viable, then they need to look into 12 or 8 teams.  Below 8 seems unlikely/disappointing.

I think the basic idea for now is to have playoffs that are as close to normal as possible.  So I'd either go right to playoffs now as is.  Or go with my 16 teams play-in in lieu of the reg season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 28, 2020, 12:46:06 PM
There's a 20-team tourney idea floating around.  The top 16 teams + the next four currently out of the action.  Ditching the bottom 10 teams.
https://sports.yahoo.com/report-nba-could-resume-group-190042421.html

Some talk Thibs is the Knix top choice, with Miller and Atkinson in the mix.
https://sports.yahoo.com/tom-thibodeau-is-reportedly-knicks-top-choice-for-next-head-coach-to-be-steamrolled-by-james-dolan-193500567.html

If accurate, I think that's pretty very reasonable.  All 3 were Knick assistants, so know NY and Dolan.  Thibs a hard-ass who preaches D and short rotations.  Atkinson a development coach, good with young guys and rebuilding.  Miller the current coach who knows the current players.

I'd go Atkinson; Thibs; Miller.
But fine with any of them.
Title: common sense
Post by: lesterluv on May 28, 2020, 01:04:31 PM
If it's too dangerous for 800, it's too dangerous for 400.
To the NBA that's like the difference between a bag of chips and a bag of pretzels.

Saying otherwise, makes no sense.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 28, 2020, 02:14:46 PM
400 is safer than 800.

It's not whether it's too dangerous.
It's the level of risk.  Which you try to mitigate.
Title: Coaches
Post by: carlos123 on May 28, 2020, 02:45:02 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 28, 2020, 12:46:06 PM
There's a 20-team tourney idea floating around.  The top 16 teams + the next four currently out of the action.  Ditching the bottom 10 teams.
https://sports.yahoo.com/report-nba-could-resume-group-190042421.html

Some talk Thibs is the Knix top choice, with Miller and Atkinson in the mix.
https://sports.yahoo.com/tom-thibodeau-is-reportedly-knicks-top-choice-for-next-head-coach-to-be-steamrolled-by-james-dolan-193500567.html

If accurate, I think that's pretty very reasonable.  All 3 were Knick assistants, so know NY and Dolan.  Thibs a hard-ass who preaches D and short rotations.  Atkinson a development coach, good with young guys and rebuilding.  Miller the current coach who knows the current players.

I'd go Atkinson; Thibs; Miller.
But fine with any of them.

I’d go Miller, Atkinson and NO THIBS. Don’t like short rotations as a principle, ONLY when you need them.

MILLER! He earned it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 28, 2020, 03:17:08 PM
OK lets do the numbers.  15-20 guys per team bench. Another 15 bodies amongst various referees, official timekeepers, statisticians, radio and tv commentary for each squad.  Another 5 camera guys.  You're looking at around 50-60 bodies in the gym to hold a game.

If you are willing to commit to those bodies and play games, then play them and make it fair so that teams can warm up for playoffs/finish up playoff seeding and play the playoffs.

If that sounds like too much risk... DON'T DO ANY OF IT.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 28, 2020, 03:41:46 PM
Its not like 400 players is all there is.  You can't use the same refs for every game.  Can't make the same 5 camera guys do every game.  There's probably another pool of 200 ancillary bodies who don't ever log a statistic that are needed to make it work as NBA entertainment.  So your 400 number is already out the window.  400 players still means another (just a guess) 200+ bodies as overhead.

And forget kiid's comment about athletes in their prime.  All it takes is for one color commentary guy or one towel handler/gatorade bringer to get sick and the whole enterprise is cast into risk. 

How's the saying go?  In for a dime, in for a dollar..  I don't think they plan to put things on hold if and when someone tests positive. I think they'll keep playing through it since they will have no other choice.  People will get sick.  Those people will be quarantined, but the show will go on.

That's why i personally think it's dumb and whoever wins may have an asterisk by their title anyway ... let's say the Bucks beat the Lakers because LeBron is quarantined.   It's bound to be criticized.   

But the alternative is waiting for a lot longer and with the money involved no one involved seriously wants to wait either. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 28, 2020, 04:27:53 PM
I’d go Miller, Atkinson and NO THIBS.



heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 28, 2020, 04:29:16 PM
And forget kiid's comment about athletes in their prime.  All it takes is for one color commentary guy or one towel handler/gatorade bringer to get sick and the whole enterprise is cast into risk.


READ THE PLAN.

No.  One player/camera guy/ broadcaster, referee testing positive will NOT shut down the enterprise.

What is at issue is that some teams may be LESSENED competitively if a star were out.  I guess its best to just liken it to any injury when discussing what ifs.

Please - dont piss on the party.  If the NBA games are coming, try to enjoy it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 28, 2020, 04:37:37 PM
I dont like the idea of 'ditching' any teams

12 games is a good enough run where a player getting minutes could open eyes for a new contract/more playing time, etc

And there are statistical equivalents to think of.  Each team should have the opportunity at equal games/equal stat sheets - and tankers need their games as well

Come on - who will be the first to post Knicks NEED to lose all 12?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 28, 2020, 05:45:45 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 28, 2020, 04:29:16 PM
And forget kiid's comment about athletes in their prime.  All it takes is for one color commentary guy or one towel handler/gatorade bringer to get sick and the whole enterprise is cast into risk.


READ THE PLAN.

No.  One player/camera guy/ broadcaster, referee testing positive will NOT shut down the enterprise.



READ MY POST.

I said it would cast the whole enterprise into risk not shut it down. 

You're like a baby sometimes.  The facts need to be spoon fed to you and you don't get most of it the first time.


Quote from: Kam on May 28, 2020, 03:41:46 PM
I don't think they plan to put things on hold if and when someone tests positive. I think they'll keep playing through it since they will have no other choice.  People will get sick.  Those people will be quarantined, but the show will go on.

Title: heh
Post by: carlos123 on May 28, 2020, 06:39:51 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 28, 2020, 04:27:53 PM
I’d go Miller, Atkinson and NO THIBS.



heh

heh... WHAT?

Btw, if you quote try and quote the whole post, oh, you like to pick and choose like your master, heh

Quote
I’d go Miller, Atkinson and NO THIBS. Don’t like short rotations as a principle, ONLY when you need them.

MILLER! He earned it.

PS. What happened with grandma? You got tired of being mocked?

heh
Title: 400 or even 800 posts won't make it any less stupid.
Post by: lesterluv on May 28, 2020, 07:13:34 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 28, 2020, 11:58:49 AM
Quote from: Kam on May 28, 2020, 11:43:00 AM
Why is 16 teams/400 players the magic # that would appease your need for safety?

My need?  Weird.

16 teams/400 people is still a fairly large number.
Hopefully they could figure out how to make that reasonably safe.


If they can figure out how to make 400 people safe, they can very easily make 800 people safe using the same methods.

This is not a very special task for any organization that specializes in managing 100s and thousands and tens of thousands.

400 v 800 is just stupid.

If 800 ain't safe then 400 ain't either and just put the Lakers and Clippers in a quarantined bubble for two weeks and have 'em bust it out.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 28, 2020, 08:10:07 PM
 The NBA looks like it’s backing off any concrete plan, with no consensus & nothing to vote on this week.

The fewer people there are the less risk involved. That seems clear.

16 teams is the smallest set the NBA can use and still pretend it’s continuing the season that ended when trump nuked the world through laziness and vanity.

The season was set for a regular season followed by a 16 team playoffs. Saying that the Corona Blunder ended the regular season and that what starts up will be the playoffs for that season is the cleanest way to do it while maintaining continuity through valuing the games already played.

5 & 6 are tied in each conference, so they can play one game for seeding with each of those pairs of teams to give it a test run and squeeze out a little extra basketball.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 28, 2020, 08:47:19 PM
The season was set for a regular season followed by a 16 team playoffs. Saying that the Corona Blunder ended the regular season and that what starts up will be the playoffs for that season is the cleanest way to do it while maintaining continuity through valuing the games already played.

5 & 6 are tied in each conference, so they can play one game for seeding with each of those pairs of teams to give it a test run and squeeze out a little extra basketball.


not happening
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 28, 2020, 09:01:06 PM
Lillard is full of shit

"It would suck not to get in the playoffs because our thing was, we had fought ourselves back into position to get a spot," the 29-year-old guard continued. "We had our starting center and starting power forward coming back, so we had a lot to look forward to and for a great reason. Now, they're healthy and have extra time to train and rehab while everybody's rusty. So now, they won't be coming back as the only rusty players. And if everybody's rusty, we can come in here and beat everybody. I do feel like if we do come back and our mind is right, we can beat anyone.



Blazers had lost 8 of 12
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 28, 2020, 09:03:23 PM
heh... WHAT?


heh, you're a moron
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 28, 2020, 09:38:04 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 28, 2020, 08:47:19 PM
The season was set for a regular season followed by a 16 team playoffs. Saying that the Corona Blunder ended the regular season and that what starts up will be the playoffs for that season is the cleanest way to do it while maintaining continuity through valuing the games already played.

5 & 6 are tied in each conference, so they can play one game for seeding with each of those pairs of teams to give it a test run and squeeze out a little extra basketball.


not happening

Better to skip straight to 2021 in the fall of 2021. There might even be a vaccine to distribute by then.
Title: heh
Post by: carlos123 on May 28, 2020, 10:13:00 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 28, 2020, 09:03:23 PM
heh... WHAT?


heh, you're a moron

Don't call other people what you are

heh

Chico killed grandma
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 28, 2020, 10:16:24 PM
Better to skip straight to 2021 in the fall of 2021. There might even be a vaccine to distribute by then.


not a bad second alternative at all

We could draft late June
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 28, 2020, 10:18:56 PM
READ MY POST.

I said it would cast the whole enterprise into risk not shut it down


ok

so we pretty much agree
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 29, 2020, 12:07:13 AM
I’m probably one of the more cautious and less optimistic here about resuming play, but that doesn’t stop me thinking about roster moves.

Im thinking it makes sense to make a run at Shabazz Napier. I think he can be had for 2/3-1/2 of what we’re paying Payton and is on the upswing coming into the sweet spot of his career.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 29, 2020, 12:08:03 AM
Quote from: Kam on May 28, 2020, 03:41:46 PM
Its not like 400 players is all there is.  You can't use the same refs for every game.  Can't make the same 5 camera guys do every game.  There's probably another pool of 200 ancillary bodies who don't ever log a statistic that are needed to make it work as NBA entertainment.  So your 400 number is already out the window.  400 players still means another (just a guess) 200+ bodies as overhead.

I don't have 400 players.
16 teams x 12 players = 192 players.
Add in your 200 ancillaries and voila 400.

Admittedly, 400 is just a guesstimate, but at least provides some parameter/guidelines for what we're talking, and seems a fair approximation.

I was thinking 3 coaches per team (3 x 16 = 48)
2 trainers, a medic, lockerroom guy, massage guy = best if a team can be limited to 5 extra personnel(?)  5 x 16 = 80.

So I have 20 people per team x 16 = 320.  19 would be 304.
Add in 100 ancillary.  And there's 400.
If they need 200 ancillary, you're close to 500.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 29, 2020, 01:17:34 AM
Since there's a lot of money at stake, I assume the NBA will rig something together and hold at least playoffs.  Tv money -- and ratings would be high since there isn't much live sports competition and not lots to do.  Players don't like having their salaries reduced due to games not played.  And it's unsatisfactory for all to simply not finish a season.

In a playoff-only scenario, once you get through the 1st round, then you're down to a pretty manageable 8 teams and 4 series.  It's really making sure that initial start, the 1st round goes off safely.  After that, just keep things sealed off as much as possible.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 29, 2020, 03:23:29 AM
They are better off waiting for a vaccine and an administration capable of distributing it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 29, 2020, 05:58:22 AM
I'd be interested in hearing about how much money is at stake per televised game and/or televised playoff game.  Players stand to lose up to 20% of salaries, since they played roughly 80% of the games.  Though I doubt the NAB would withhold the full amount if the season and playoffs were canceled.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 29, 2020, 03:12:21 PM
The NBA should call the season. Then they should host a telethon & auction to raise money for frontline worker relief. Who ever the highest bidder is gets the Larry O this year.

It lets the league get on with its bookkeeping and things like free agency and the draft while the NFL figures out first hand the dos and don'ts of sport league reopening.

They can cancel what’s left of the season to honor the fallen and the still falling in the struggle to contain the pandemic. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 29, 2020, 04:29:15 PM
I think NBA owners have done enough donating - and have lost millions
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 29, 2020, 05:59:20 PM
Only a fucking piss pot holder would be worrying about the owners.

The auction should be open to all comers, in or out of the league. Out of anyone who wants to play whoever is willing and able to do the most for front line workers on that night will have the trophy and get to award it on court to the next competitive champion when one prevails after play resumes.
Title: July 31st?
Post by: carlos123 on May 29, 2020, 10:20:37 PM
Shams Charania
@ShamsCharania
NBA commissioner Adam Silver and the league office informed Board of Governors that July 31 is a target date for return of season, sources tell @TheAthleticNBA @Stadium.
3:06 PM · May 29, 2020

Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
As hard as owners and teams are pushing for proposals rooted in some level of self-interest, there's still a sense they'll give Silver the latitude to implement the plan that he lands on with the NBPA. Most expect that'll come inside the next week.
2:34 PM · May 29, 2020
Title: For the last time
Post by: Kam on May 30, 2020, 02:18:05 AM
If you accept the premise that they’re gonna plough through with 500 personnel and continue to play on in the event 1 of those 500 tests positive....

Then what’s the difference with 800?  Playoff series or regular season what’s the difference?
Only the most optimistic person would cross their fingers that a playoff only 500 league will have zero chance of covid.

Once you accept the risk to 500 and accept that positive tests will occur and play will continue ...


If the priority is crowning a champ (with or without resumption of the regular season) then you’re accepting the risk and admitting safety isn’t the priority.


If safety is the priority then cancel the season.

You can’t have it both ways.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 30, 2020, 03:07:49 AM
That’s the core of it. That the abyss they’re all looking down right now as they try to make up their minds.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 30, 2020, 03:23:57 AM
Safety isn't all or nothing.
If you can't achieve 100% safety (you can't) then you don't just give up.
There are degrees of safety, and levels of risk.
Minimize risks, increase safety factors.

Probably the quarantining prior to the restart will be the key step. Then limiting outside and inter-team contacts.

Just like you don't reopen the economy in full, but you (should) reopen carefully with masks and social distancing, while large gatherings are excluded.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 30, 2020, 04:00:09 AM
If you restricted participation on any level to those negative for live virus and positive for immune response, implying those who’ve had it and recovered, assuming you can round up some resonantly to very accurate test for those things, would by some accounts be about as safe as you could get.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 30, 2020, 04:56:58 AM
Not clear if one can get re-infected or not. 
Or how long any acquired immunity lasts.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 30, 2020, 07:53:17 AM
There are enough unknowns at this stage that, were it up to me, I’d scratch the remainder of the season. I’ve made that clear already.

It will ultimately come down to who’s got how much money at stake on whether or not more games get played.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 30, 2020, 08:05:43 AM
Luke Garza might make an interesting backup to Mitch. He’d provide a radical change of pace and style.

If we grab one of the three top guards, Ball, Hayes, and Edwards, Or even Haliburton With the lotto pick, I’d favor grabbing Garza and Killian Tille with the other two picks further down the draft.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 30, 2020, 11:21:29 AM
Tillie has had injury woes.  Could be a UFA

Speaking of drafts - just hearing MLB has slated theirs for June 9-10 (or is it 10-11)

They are slimming down from 40 rounds to FIVE.  All players not drafted can sign for a max bonus of 20K.

Owners saving a bundle.

NBA is no draft bonuses right?  Just salary?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 30, 2020, 06:06:49 PM
No signing bonus in NBA, a trade off for the security of getting paid after being cut, and to keep cap calculations on the pre-doctoral level of mathematical difficulty, so they don’t have to do it all on napkins in bistros.

If we get Tille as a UDFA that would be awesome. Worth the gamble on health.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on May 30, 2020, 11:26:44 PM
see: andrew mercado on facebook,

A vet documenting the Minnesota peaceful protests - usually in realtime

Good stuff
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Buddy the Leper on May 31, 2020, 10:57:40 AM
Quote from: FWK00 on May 30, 2020, 11:26:44 PM
the Minnesota peaceful protests
What year were those protests?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 31, 2020, 01:28:35 PM
I have now seen hours of Brooklyn protests in person.
The vast majority of it peaceful.
I have also seen a small, but significant amount of violence.
The vast majority INITIATED by the cops.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Buddy the Leper on May 31, 2020, 01:46:17 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on May 31, 2020, 01:28:35 PM
I have now seen hours of Brooklyn protests in person.
The vast majority of it peaceful.
And then the sun went down.

And buildings “began” to burn.
Bricks “fell” from the sky.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 31, 2020, 01:49:02 PM
Quote from: Buddy the Leper on May 31, 2020, 01:46:17 PM

And then the sun went down.

And buildings “began” to burn.
Bricks “fell” from the sky.

Oh, I forgot to mention: ALL OF THOSE HOURS IN THE P.M.


*** and then the leper's head "found itself" embedded up its own ass
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 31, 2020, 03:52:52 PM
Quote from: Buddy the Leper on May 31, 2020, 01:46:17 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on May 31, 2020, 01:28:35 PM
I have now seen hours of Brooklyn protests in person.
The vast majority of it peaceful.
And then the sun went down.

And buildings “began” to burn.
Bricks “fell” from the sky.

Go police yourself, cupcake.
Title: THE REVOLUTION Is BEING TELEVISED
Post by: chipstern on May 31, 2020, 04:17:07 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on May 30, 2020, 11:26:44 PM
see: andrew mercado on facebook,

A vet documenting the Minnesota peaceful protests - usually in realtime

Good stuff

(https://www.reproduction-gallery.com/catalogue/uploads/1198120187_large-image_salvador-dali-crucifixion-corpus-hypercubus-1954-lg.jpg?is_thumbnail=yes)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwSRqaZGsPw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwSRqaZGsPw)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on May 31, 2020, 06:13:57 PM
https://twitter.com/search?q=jr%20smith%20fight&src=typeahead_click (https://twitter.com/search?q=jr%20smith%20fight&src=typeahead_click)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 31, 2020, 10:23:13 PM
The vast majority of it peaceful.


Still watching?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 31, 2020, 10:39:27 PM
No, why? Somebody go all JR Smith on your MAGA ass?

*** I left Grand Army Plaza around 8.00 pm — very chill. Continuous streams of supportive honks from drivers coming round the traffic circle. Folks headed to Manhattan Bridge apparently. Cops were shoving people around there completely unprovoked last night. Have no idea if it's happening again this eve. Most likely it is.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 31, 2020, 11:31:03 PM
After JR beat that kid he untied his laces.

WIN.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on June 01, 2020, 12:18:45 AM
But, from what I'm hearing and seeing at home, cops again causing most of the violence here in Brooklyn, just beating the fuck out of protestors as they back or run away.. This is my neighbor, a writer for the WSJ.
https://twitter.com/tylergabriel_/status/1267287516345925632 (https://twitter.com/tylergabriel_/status/1267287516345925632)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 01, 2020, 08:22:31 AM
As Chris Cuomo pointed out last night - press being that close is asking for trouble.

Police protocol is that when something lands on/near them they move the line up.  Your neighbour didnt go in reverse quickly enough.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on June 01, 2020, 11:15:10 AM
If the protocol is to trigger and escalate violence, (Amply documented — here from our state senator:    https://twitter.com/LiuNewYork/status/1267264294980329473 (https://twitter.com/LiuNewYork/status/1267264294980329473)) which is what is has been here in NYC, then the protocol has to change. Which is what this about.

New York's finest have been disgracing themselves.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Buddy the Leper on June 01, 2020, 12:15:26 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 31, 2020, 11:31:03 PM
After JR beat that kid he untied his laces.
Years before China released SARS-CoV-2 from Wuhan it released J. R. Smith-#8 from Zhejiang.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 01, 2020, 01:55:31 PM
New York's finest have been disgracing themselves.


They were certainly outshifted by AntiFa early this morning.
Title: Like An Egg From A Tall Chicken...
Post by: chipstern on June 01, 2020, 03:54:31 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 01, 2020, 01:55:31 PM
New York's finest have been disgracing themselves.


They were certainly outshifted by AntiFa early this morning.

Just when I begin to think that you might be a carbon based life form. 

Uh, Earth To KIID. 

ANTIFA is not an organization with a single monolithic set of goals and principles and web sites, like, say, oh, THE WHITE KNIGHTS OF THE KLU KLUX KLAN. 

ANTIFA simply connotes Anti-Fascist, you know, like those guys our fathers and grandfathers sacrificed their lives taking Normandy Beah back in 1944 Beach on D-Day to save humanity from Adolph Hitler. 

It is a general term for any number of people under the broader umbrella of sundry peoples and groups. 

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/55/0d/e7/550de7048c9c6a05bd6cf1c26e2aa303.jpg)

Of course, the POUTER IN CHIEF, that Donald "Tweets Don't Fail Me Now" Trump fellow, (known as STINKY, as originally played by Joe Besser on The Abbott & Costello Show) sold sundry Kool Aid Drinkers on the notion that this was a SINGLE LEFT WING CONSPIRATORIAL ORGINZATION.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDU-yQsVAAIMGRx.jpg)

Trump bats them pretty little eyes, and motherfuckers like you get all weak in the knees.  And you fall for it like an egg from a really tall chicken. 

(https://i1.wp.com/braincharm.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/2DAb74J.jpg?resize=795%2C419&ssl=1)

Title: Ain't Nobody Here But Us ChickenShits
Post by: chipstern on June 01, 2020, 04:02:13 PM


Too Often People Rush To Judge The Response Instead Of
The Actions That Prompted It

Doc Rivers
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 01, 2020, 04:06:06 PM
Sad that you don't think there is/was organization to it in all cities, Chip.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 01, 2020, 04:13:11 PM
I have a question

(forgiving nothing the cops did)  Did George Floyd refuse to get into the police cruiser after being handcuffed?
Title: No, the NYPD were not outshined in disgrace by antifa
Post by: lesterluv on June 01, 2020, 06:40:24 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 01, 2020, 04:06:06 PM
Sad that you don't think there is/was organization to it in all cities, Chip.

You were responding to me. And I have been strictly speaking about what I observed here in my city.

And here, antifa don't have jack shit to do with anything. The cops have a hell of a lot to answer for. BTW, the list of people who have died brutalized by antifa has no names on it. So who gives a fuck. Nobody cries when a CVS plate glass window is shattered except dumb peckerwoods like yourself.

So you are completely wrong. Which, of course, is what we have all come to expect :)
Title: Nobody Gonna Answer Your Dumb-Ass Question
Post by: lesterluv on June 01, 2020, 06:42:04 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 01, 2020, 04:13:11 PM
I have a question

(forgiving nothing the cops did)  Did George Floyd refuse to get into the police cruiser after being handcuffed?

You'll have to answer your "oh I'm so so provocative" question yourself, cause nobody here gonna stoop down to your IQ to bother.
Title: Pops Lets Loose
Post by: lesterluv on June 01, 2020, 06:59:35 PM
https://sports.yahoo.com/gregg-popovich-unleashes-fiery-statement-on-trump-what-we-have-is-a-fool-in-place-of-a-president-184310589.html (https://sports.yahoo.com/gregg-popovich-unleashes-fiery-statement-on-trump-what-we-have-is-a-fool-in-place-of-a-president-184310589.html)

"The thing that strikes me is that we all see this police violence and racism and we’ve seen it all before but nothing changes. That’s why these protests have been so explosive. But without leadership and an understanding of what the problem is, there will never be change. And white Americans have avoided reckoning with this problem forever because it’s been our privilege to be able to avoid it. That also has to change.”
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 01, 2020, 08:19:08 PM
You were responding to me. And I have been strictly speaking about what I observed here in my city.


heh

no, really I wasn't
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 01, 2020, 09:24:58 PM
If Kiid has rolled around in it and its stuck to him and its drawing flies, you can surmise it’s dog shit, which is both the staple of his diet and all he manages to produce.
Title: Poor Chico
Post by: carlos123 on June 01, 2020, 11:13:14 PM
I don’t know whose “dialogues” with Chico I enjoy more, either my doggie’s, Fac’s or Chip’s. All are thorough demolitions of his moronic trumpism.

Call me a softie, but sometimes I feel sorry for the poor kiiddo.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 01, 2020, 11:57:39 PM
His time may be ending and everything about him is pitiful without doubt, but he’s still a backbiting guttersnipe who gets off on American carnage. I’d suggest reserving your sympathy for Kidd till it’s in memoriam and he can do no more harm.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on June 02, 2020, 12:49:24 AM
I'm pretty sure I won't be able to top "backbiting guttersnipe." Meanwhile: Dolan doing his absolute best to ensure that Giannis, or any other future free agent of consequence, continues the grand tradition of not even taking our phone call when the time comes.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/knicks-owner-james-dolan-explains-why-team-refuses-to-comment-on-george-floyd-killing-angering-players (https://www.thedailybeast.com/knicks-owner-james-dolan-explains-why-team-refuses-to-comment-on-george-floyd-killing-angering-players)
Title: Who?
Post by: carlos123 on June 02, 2020, 02:23:18 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 01, 2020, 11:57:39 PM
His time may be ending and everything about him is pitiful without doubt, but he’s still a backbiting guttersnipe who gets off on American carnage. I’d suggest reserving your sympathy for Kidd till it’s in memoriam and he can do no more harm.

U talking about Trumptin or Chico?

No doubt about the harm Trumptin&Co. is doing. Chico? He don’t have the power.
Title: Dolan
Post by: carlos123 on June 02, 2020, 02:30:28 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on June 02, 2020, 12:49:24 AM
I'm pretty sure I won't be able to top "backbiting guttersnipe." Meanwhile: Dolan doing his absolute best to ensure that Giannis, or any other future free agent of consequence, continues the grand tradition of not even taking our phone call when the time comes.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/knicks-owner-james-dolan-explains-why-team-refuses-to-comment-on-george-floyd-killing-angering-players (https://www.thedailybeast.com/knicks-owner-james-dolan-explains-why-team-refuses-to-comment-on-george-floyd-killing-angering-players)

Afraid Dolan’s Knicks are beyond redemption, afraid he ain’t selling either, especially not now in a down market.

Hoping AlexJLo are able to buy the Mets, just to have an NY team to root for.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 02, 2020, 04:00:15 AM
Dolan needs to get Sterlinged. I’d take Andrew Yang as principal owner in a New York minute.

He’ll, I’d take Bloomberg though he needs to focus on seeing trump and the GOZ (Grotesque Old Zombies) defeated.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 02, 2020, 01:07:10 PM
Wes Unseld died age 74.
NBA Hall of Famer and Washington Wizards legend Wes Unseld dies (https://sports.yahoo.com/nba-hall-of-famer-and-former-washington-bullets-coach-and-gm-wes-unseld-dies-140009378.html)

Just a 6'7" C in the 70's, but man was he tough and strong.  Wasn't a big scorer, but he sure could grab a rebound, kick a mean outlet pass, set a devastating screen.

I remember going to a few Net v. Bullets games in the mid/late 70's, and you just knew that Elvin Hayes and Wes Unseld were going to dominate.  Two forces who complemented each other well. 

Won Rook of the Year & MVP in his debut season.
Was Finals MVP despite averaging just 9 points a game.
Hell, it was just a 44-38 team that Wes & the Big E took to the Title.
3.5 O-boards & 4 assists per for his career.

A pretty unique player.  Then coached WASH for a long time and then GM-ed them.  Abe Pollin loved Wes.  Unseld has to be the key player in WAS/BAL history.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 02, 2020, 01:49:19 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on June 02, 2020, 01:07:10 PM
Wes Unseld died age 74.
NBA Hall of Famer and Washington Wizards legend Wes Unseld dies (https://sports.yahoo.com/nba-hall-of-famer-and-former-washington-bullets-coach-and-gm-wes-unseld-dies-140009378.html)

Just a 6'7" C in the 70's, but man was he tough and strong.  Wasn't a big scorer, but he sure could grab a rebound, kick a mean outlet pass, set a devastating screen.

I remember going to a few Net v. Bullets games in the mid/late 70's, and you just knew that Elvin Hayes and Wes Unseld were going to dominate.  Two forces who complemented each other well. 

Won Rook of the Year & MVP in his debut season.
Was Finals MVP despite averaging just 9 points a game.
Hell, it was just a 44-38 team that Wes & the Big E took to the Title.
3.5 O-boards & 4 assists per for his career.

A pretty unique player.  Then coached WASH for a long time and then GM-ed them.  Abe Pollin loved Wes.  Unseld has to be the key player in WAS/BAL history.

6'7" Tall

And about

7'8" Wide

Didn't need to score, because he facilitated scoring.  And, oh yeah, he scored. 

Because for his entire career he was a FUCKING ROCK, good for 36  minutes a night, putting up 11ppg, grabbing 14 boards and distributing 4 dimes. 

Wes vs Willis was FUCKING EPIC Mano A Mano, no quarter given. 

That full court two handed outlet missle off of a board was a thing of  beauty. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on June 02, 2020, 01:55:45 PM
RIP Wes Unseld

the stats really didn't do him justice

he was a tough SOB and almost as wide as he was tall and he could play
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 02, 2020, 03:28:42 PM
Unseld always seemed like the kind of guy you hated to go up against; but you'd enjoy having as a teammate.

The Willis v Unseld battles were before my time.
I caught the Wash version of the Bullets, 2nd half of the 70's, just after the merger with the ABA.
Title: Question?
Post by: chipstern on June 02, 2020, 05:56:53 PM
How on God's Green Earth did James Dolan manage to mess up the Garden/Knicks Messaging on George Floyd? 

I mean...

I know the man is a big Trump Contributor, but Good Golly Miss Molly, LOOK AT YOUR FAN BASE?

Duh?
Title: Re: Question?
Post by: carlos123 on June 02, 2020, 06:04:14 PM
Quote from: chipstern on June 02, 2020, 05:56:53 PM
How on God's Green Earth did James Dolan manage to mess up the Garden/Knicks Messaging on George Floyd? 

I mean...

I know the man is a big Trump Contributor, but Good Golly Miss Molly, LOOK AT YOUR FAN BASE?

Duh?

Answer?

HOPELESS
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 03, 2020, 02:36:55 AM
Dolan talks about a respectful work environment, and all I could think of is Anucha, Marbury cousins, the way Melo-Noah-KZ were treated.

When you have a combination of losing, a history of poor management, and you treat high-profile players like crapola, FA's aren't gonna come (except lower tier guys, or fellows who can get overpaid). 

Players talk and I really think the way Melo was treated at the end, the way KZ wanted out (and was sold for a bag of moldy beans), and Noah being banished doesn't sit well with NBA players.  Players know that NYK is mildly toxic. 

Quote
"Yesterday, I made a sincere attempt to provide my perspective on a very difficult issue, one that has no easy answers," Dolan wrote

Maybe the context is missing, but what's a difficult issue.  Racism is bad.  Police abuse of power is bad.  Police killing people or using unnecessary violence is bad.  Peaceful protests are wholly American.  1st A right to peaceful Assembly.  Violence is bad and problematic, but as we're seeing the violence is equally small groups of protesters and police using unnecessary violence.  What's difficult?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 03, 2020, 03:05:36 AM
Well, the revived NBA talking 22 teams, basically anyone who still had a playoff chance.  They want to hold either some reg season games or have a play-in tourney (or both), then the playoffs.  Get more games in that way.

Not sure why they didn't cut it at 20, since there currently are 16 playoff teams and 4 more in the West who had a  chance of getting in.  Maybe for better E/W balance.  But they need 23 teams to vote for the proposal, so having 22 teams play, gets you just one vote shy of what's needed.

Knix of course not invited to play.
BTW, 2 more losses and we'd have the 2nd worst record, instead of the 6th worst.
Good thing we brought in all those vet F to take minutes away from our yute ...
I would have played Mitch and Knox more, though Mitch was foul prone, Knox didn't play well, and Portis is a fairly young vet at 25.  And Morris, when we had him, was the only bright spot (well, along with Mitch when he was on).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on June 03, 2020, 08:49:46 AM
Wes vs Willis was FUCKING EPIC Mano A Mano, no quarter given.

As were the Gus Johnson vs. Debusschere match-ups taking place at the same time.

All brutal but clean as a whistle.  No trash-talking or whining to the refs.  Totally different sport then. 
Title: EPIC
Post by: chipstern on June 03, 2020, 03:14:03 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on June 03, 2020, 08:49:46 AM
Wes vs Willis was FUCKING EPIC Mano A Mano, no quarter given.

As were the Gus Johnson vs. Debusschere match-ups taking place at the same time.

All brutal but clean as a whistle.  No trash-talking or whining to the refs.  Totally different sport then.

Gus vs Dave

Ab-So-FUCKING-Lutely

I was in a rush

Jack Marin vs. Bill Bradley

Earl Monroe Vs Walt Frazier

Kevin Loughery vs. Dick Barnett

Fucking

EPIC

Knicks Vs. Bullets
1970 Semi-Finals
Seven Games

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1970-nba-eastern-division-semifinals-bullets-vs-knicks.html (https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1970-nba-eastern-division-semifinals-bullets-vs-knicks.html)
Title: Re: Question?
Post by: Kam on June 03, 2020, 05:13:13 PM
Quote from: chipstern on June 02, 2020, 05:56:53 PM
How on God's Green Earth did James Dolan manage to mess up the Garden/Knicks Messaging on George Floyd? 


Steve Stoute is not earning his keep.
Title: Re: Question?
Post by: facilitatorn on June 03, 2020, 05:15:51 PM
Quote from: Kam on June 03, 2020, 05:13:13 PM
Quote from: chipstern on June 02, 2020, 05:56:53 PM
How on God's Green Earth did James Dolan manage to mess up the Garden/Knicks Messaging on George Floyd? 


Steve Stoute is not earning his keep.
Title: Re: Question?
Post by: chipstern on June 03, 2020, 07:33:40 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 03, 2020, 05:15:51 PM
Quote from: Kam on June 03, 2020, 05:13:13 PM
Quote from: chipstern on June 02, 2020, 05:56:53 PM
How on God's Green Earth did James Dolan manage to mess up the Garden/Knicks Messaging on George Floyd?


Steve Stoute is not earning his keep.

Word...Or Should I Say...TURD.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 03, 2020, 09:08:57 PM
The Knicks are one of eight teams that won’t be included in the proposed restart at Disney’s Wide World of Sports in Orlando, Fla. But those teams may take part in a four-to-five team fall league and training camp to remain relevant in their respective markets, as ESPN reported has been discussed. The league doesn’t want teams going from March to December – when next season could start — without playing any games.
Title: Re: EPIC
Post by: Yankguy1 on June 04, 2020, 10:21:40 AM
Quote from: chipstern on June 03, 2020, 03:14:03 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on June 03, 2020, 08:49:46 AM
Wes vs Willis was FUCKING EPIC Mano A Mano, no quarter given.

As were the Gus Johnson vs. Debusschere match-ups taking place at the same time.

All brutal but clean as a whistle.  No trash-talking or whining to the refs.  Totally different sport then.

Gus vs Dave

Ab-So-FUCKING-Lutely

I was in a rush

Jack Marin vs. Bill Bradley

Earl Monroe Vs Walt Frazier

Kevin Loughery vs. Dick Barnett

Fucking

EPIC

Knicks Vs. Bullets
1970 Semi-Finals
Seven Games

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1970-nba-eastern-division-semifinals-bullets-vs-knicks.html (https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1970-nba-eastern-division-semifinals-bullets-vs-knicks.html)
Their conference finals the next season was also very competitive and exciting but an unpleasantly shocking ending.  I remember my Dad being devastated.   

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1971-nba-eastern-conference-finals-bullets-vs-knicks.html
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 04, 2020, 01:14:43 PM
Chinese CBA to restart June 20.
No fans.
Teams divided into two cities.
I think the idea is to finish the regular season and go to playoffs.

Some teams will have their US and foreign players, others won't.
Some foreign players have been practicing with teams for weeks already.
For the most part the American players dominate, while the Chinese shoot 3's and foul.  Not having your foreign guys will be quite a handicap.  Usually that means minus your two or three best players.  Only a few Chinese players -- Yi Jian Lian primarily -- at that level.

Maybe some more American players will come to China (virus-wise it is very safe here, much more so than the USofTrump).  Maybe they'd need charter flights(?)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on June 04, 2020, 01:30:03 PM
I lived in the NYC metro area late 60s-early 70s and as a hoops fans had fun watching the Knicks-Bullets battles as the Celts were retooling.

Those were wars that the knicks usually won.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 04, 2020, 06:30:52 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on June 04, 2020, 01:14:43 PM
Chinese CBA to restart June 20.
No fans.
Teams divided into two cities.
I think the idea is to finish the regular season and go to playoffs.

Some teams will have their US and foreign players, others won't.
Some foreign players have been practicing with teams for weeks already.
For the most part the American players dominate,  while the Chinese shoot 3's and foul. Not having your foreign guys will be quite a handicap.  Usually that means minus your two or three best players.  Only a few Chinese players -- Yi Jian Lian primarily -- at that level.

Maybe some more American players will come to China (virus-wise it is very safe here, much more so than the USofTrump).  Maybe they'd need charter flights(?)

So fucking dumb it's beyond words
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 04, 2020, 08:12:38 PM
I'm sure you know zilch about Chinese professional basketball.

In a typical CBA game, 60% of the shots are 3-pointers.  Been that way for a decade or two.  I find it very boring, and unfortunately, it's where the NBA is headed.

Aside from the foreign players going one on however many, there's some pick and roll, but usually intended for drive and kick action.   Some fast break play.  But mostly the CBA game is designed to generate 3 point shots.  While the foreign guards are allowed to create whatever they want, including crazy shots.  And the foreign Bigs post up and bull their way to the rim.  Defense is weak and anyone inside gets clubbed.  3's and fouls.  It's a limited dull form of hoops, imo.

Your opinion on the subject likely isn't worth shit.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 04, 2020, 08:31:39 PM
856 three point attempts

2396 overall fg attempts

https://basketball.realgm.com/international/league/40/Chinese-CBA/team/14/Guangdong-Dongguan/stats/2020/Totals/Qualified/All

Thus yes.  Your 60% is you once again being full of steamed dumpling

Fucking assclown.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 04, 2020, 08:49:06 PM
I should have said that in a Chinese game up to 60% of the shots are 3 pointers.  (first thing I look at in a CBA boxscore is if half the shots or more were 3's).

Also, I'd estimate that close to 60% of the Chinese shots are 3-pointers.  It's the foreign G's who go to the rack and the foreign Bigs who post up or get putbacks.  They account for the most of the 2's.

Since suddenly you're capable of research and links, get back to me on that.

Don't know if it was intentional, or if it matters, but you chose the one team with a high-volume 2-point shooting Chinese star -- Yi Jian Lian. 

Otherwise, I'm really sick of you, because you are a shitty person.
Fucking Trump supporter.  That says it all.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 04, 2020, 10:18:20 PM
I have a pooper scooper for Kiid’s ashes around here somewhere...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 04, 2020, 10:19:01 PM
People that matter to me disagree with you, Bo.  Be good now.
Title: heh
Post by: carlos123 on June 04, 2020, 10:35:32 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on June 04, 2020, 10:19:01 PM
People that matter to me disagree with you, Bo.  Be good now.

And who are those "people"?

heh

PS. Chico still killed grandma.
Title: CBA
Post by: Kam on June 04, 2020, 10:38:12 PM
I trust bodiddley on matters of China more than "people who kidcarter knows" ... i don't know, call me crazy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 04, 2020, 10:40:44 PM
Kid goes to all the best dungeons. They let him hang around for hours.
Title: Since the Kings are also out of the playoffs i figure we can discuss this here
Post by: Kam on June 04, 2020, 11:50:40 PM
DeMarcus Cousins, asked Napear his thoughts on the Black Lives Matter

https://nypost.com/2020/06/03/nba-voice-grant-napear-opens-up-on-all-lives-matter-firing/ (https://nypost.com/2020/06/03/nba-voice-grant-napear-opens-up-on-all-lives-matter-firing/)

The response was "All Lives Matter".

Chris Webber and Matt Barnes quickly weighed in and now Grant has been let go.

A white man who benefitted from privilege his whole life claims he did not know that "All Lives Matter" meant something sinister.

I find that hard to believe. It means he has been purposefully hiding from reality. Maybe watching too much Fox news.

But you'd have to be really out of touch to be living in America, working in a mostly black league, and not know the dog whistles.

PS. Phil Mushnick claims a week ago All Lives Matter would've been an ok response.

Quote
These days you never know when you’re a goner. You never know if your career and deeds — good deeds, well-intended deeds and honest work — will be hijacked by fringe lunatics or the merely wishful to publicly paint you as what they want you to be, hope you are or read online that you definitely are.

Thus you become a racist, because that’s a quick, effective substitute for reasonable, civil dialogue and for dealing with certain clear, present and often unpopular truths.

So the easiest, safest way to protect your career is to pander to those with whom you disagree, ignore what you can’t miss or simply run away.

Grant Napear, 32 years the TV voice of the Sacramento Kings, is a goner this week, fired from his gig as a Sacramento sports talk host and “resigned” as the TV voice of Kings TV broadcast because he’s a racist. Perhaps. There’s no evidence. But a knee-jerk reaction from easily frightened bosses (see: Doug Adler, former ESPN tennis analyst) is all it takes.

Set up by a former King, DeMarcus Cousins, who Napear had criticized for chronic malfeasance in disservice to the Kings, Napear responded to Cousins’ tweeted question about the Black Lives Matter movement following the alleged murder of George Floyd beneath the knee of a Minneapolis cop with a suspect record.

Like Hilary Clinton and presumably millions before him, Napear was naïve to the new presumption that “All Lives Matter” is now considered by some to be a racist response to the BLM movement. Seriously.

I remain unfamiliar with the preferred, non-racist response. But until this week, All Lives Matter seemed a sensible, sensitive sentiment shared by right-minded people.

FUCK YOU TOO MUSHNICK.

It has been known for a while.

White man defends white man should be the title of Mushnick's shit post.

Title: Re: CBA
Post by: lesterluv on June 05, 2020, 01:38:30 AM
Quote from: Kam on June 04, 2020, 10:38:12 PM
I trust bodiddley on matters of China more than "people who kidcarter knows" ... i don't know, call me crazy.
 

lol, I'm surprised he even poked his head back out of the bunker after shitting his diapers with antifa & Floyd
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 05, 2020, 03:39:12 AM
Admittedly, I haven't watched many CBA games in the past say 5 years, as it's boring basketball to me.  Sometimes I just a catch a random 4Q here and there.

On most CBA teams, a foreign star such as Jimmer or Marshon Brooks gets to be Harden-level ball dominant.  And that is certainly accurate.  Most of the Chinese players are 3-point specialists (and rebounder/foulers).  And defense is lax.  And the NBA trend the past 10 years is decidedly in that direction (more 3's and less D is not my kind of basketball).

But I did exaggerate the CBA 3-dominance.  Looks like league average is most teams shoot about 40% of their FGA's as 3's.  Which is a lot.  But one-on-one (or two) play from a foreign star and 3-point jacking from the others isn't a good product, imo.
Title: Assholes Should be Called Out
Post by: bodiddley on June 05, 2020, 03:47:17 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on June 04, 2020, 10:19:01 PM
People that matter to me disagree with you, Bo.  Be good now.

In the politics forum, Kiid praised Robert E. Lee as a great American.

I can find the exact quote if the search function cooperates, but that was basically the entire post.  General Robert E. Lee was a great American according to kiid.

I guess Kiid favors racists who kill hundreds of thousands of Americans and have a distorted notion of Christianity.  And of course we know what it means these days to praise the traitor and slaver Lee.  At least kiid has stopped quoting Trump for now.  If Trump plunges further, I'm sure we'll hear that Trump was never kiid's guy ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 05, 2020, 04:16:37 AM
As I said, all the best dungeons.

Fran Frachilla was on w the MSG guys which now includes John Wallace. There was an interesting hoops conversation.

Here’s the link

http://youtu.be/ncDSd7tUzAM (http://youtu.be/ncDSd7tUzAM)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 05, 2020, 09:23:37 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 05, 2020, 04:16:37 AM
As I said, all the best dungeons.

Fran Frachilla was on w the MSG guys which now includes John Wallace. There was an interesting hoops conversation.

Here’s the link

http://youtu.be/ncDSd7tUzAM (http://youtu.be/ncDSd7tUzAM)

Interesting. 

Edwards a linebacker in a point guard's body did he say? 

Hmmmm. 

And LaMelo sounds like the second coming og a taller Elfrid. 

Fran like the French PG.

Buyer's remorse after Frank? 

If we are in the top 3?

Jeez.

Obi sounds nice.

Lottery in August.

Draft in October. 

Yikes.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 06, 2020, 02:30:27 AM
Okongwu can do most all the Obi stuff & also is a defensive savant.

Wiseman vs. Okongwu comes down to whether you’d rather have 3” extra inches height and reach or a top 3 basketball mind for a guy at the position.

As for guys who’d crack top 3 at the position on our roster on day one, these are the ones I see in this draft

Bigs: Okongwu Wiseman Otoru Carey

Stretches: Advija Tille Toppin Achiuwa

Wings: Vassell S.Bey Okoro Nesmith

Guards: Ball Hayes Haliburton

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 06, 2020, 04:04:54 AM
I'm becoming sold on Okongwu.  Could be a real two-way force and would mean the end of Randle.  A Bam type.

Since we already have Mitch, we don't need a C like WiseMan.
And I dislike guys like Obi who don't defend.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 06, 2020, 12:32:14 PM
uh......... ok

Has to b a pretty darn good talent to be rated high as he is,
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on June 07, 2020, 01:53:24 PM
• really poor closeouts; terrible balance & minimal effort
• subpar hips; reacts to the first move and can't recover
• bites on every pump fake; fancies himself as big time shot blocker

https://youtu.be/DH9XVYkX5k8 (https://youtu.be/DH9XVYkX5k8)

we'll pass, thanks....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 07, 2020, 03:05:22 PM
I assume the's Obi.

I have the same impression.
We're such a poor defensive team already.

Could Toppin's flaws be hidden by Mitch?  probably asking too much.
Might as well just keep Randle if we're okay with a scoring PF who is weak on D.
As with Julius, Toppin also seems to be a one position player.

I guess it depends our draft slot and who's left on the board.
A guy who has a fair amount of Amare in him isn't bad down around 8th.
But hopefully we do better.
Get an outside shooting G, a two-way player, or a 3&D guy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 07, 2020, 04:30:51 PM
For Toppin think somewhere between Portis and post injury STAT. He’s definitely someone who will find a role in the league, but I don’t think that’s what we want to achieve with our lotto pick. Floor is probably Derek Williams or Jabari Parker.
Title: Duly Noted
Post by: chipstern on June 07, 2020, 07:53:53 PM
Lottery in August.

AUGUST.

Draft in October.

OCTOBER. 
Title: Re: Duly Noted
Post by: Kam on June 07, 2020, 10:32:48 PM
Quote from: chipstern on June 07, 2020, 07:53:53 PM
Lottery in August.

AUGUST.

Draft in October.

OCTOBER.

A looooong wait. Also a unique opportunity for these kinds in the draft to try and improve their stock with private workouts and the like.  Maybe some can play a little bit overseas so more tape can be reviewed?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 07, 2020, 10:52:26 PM
Great to see many going back to school

Future drafts need more upperclassmen.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 08, 2020, 12:30:27 AM
Not too many overseas leagues playing.
And would they want to bring in Americans, who got the virus later, had hugely failed leadership and are more risk than elsewhere?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Buddy the Leper on June 08, 2020, 10:26:13 AM
Good Gov't Saves Lives
 --- Bad Gov't Kills ---

https://churchpop.com/2019/01/24/world-trade-center-lit-pink-celebrating-ny-abortion-law-where-unborn-babies-are-memorialized/amp/ (https://churchpop.com/2019/01/24/world-trade-center-lit-pink-celebrating-ny-abortion-law-where-unborn-babies-are-memorialized/amp/)

Can anyone comment on the wellbeing of Nagel?

Or what about:
Theboozeneverfreeze
Sex Machine
Emann22
Title: Band Of Others
Post by: chipstern on June 08, 2020, 11:21:44 AM
Quote from: Buddy the Leper on June 08, 2020, 10:26:13 AM
Good Gov't Saves Lives
 --- Bad Gov't Kills ---

https://churchpop.com/2019/01/24/world-trade-center-lit-pink-celebrating-ny-abortion-law-where-unborn-babies-are-memorialized/amp/ (https://churchpop.com/2019/01/24/world-trade-center-lit-pink-celebrating-ny-abortion-law-where-unborn-babies-are-memorialized/amp/)

Can anyone comment on the wellbeing of Nagel?

Or what about:
Theboozeneverfreeze
Sex Machine
Emann22

I'm in touch with a handful of the old Bowery Boys. 

Nagel's health has always been a bit dicey, but he is cool, as is EMann. 

So are MisterEarl and Miras.

Reconnected recently with FWK off of Elba. 

Don't actually have any recollections of the other two. 

From time to time I ponder the journey of ClipperJane from way back in the day.  Hope she is well. 

As for our present Band Of Brothers & Others, at the point when we can read one of Pharoah's in depth break downs we will know that a semblance of something vaguely resembling normalcy has returned. 

Was just thinking about the first encounter between the National League and the upstart American League back in 1903...and here we are two weeks from the first day of summer, and no baseball. 

Even during WWI and WWII there was baseball. 

Anyway, hope all of you and yours are safe and well...as a large asteroid passes within grinning distance of our Planet. 
Title: Re: Band Of Others
Post by: Kam on June 08, 2020, 11:26:43 AM
Quote from: chipstern on June 08, 2020, 11:21:44 AM

Don't actually have any recollections of the other two. 

 

He means "Biz" (thebizneverloses) and "Flinter" (exmachina)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Buddy the Leper on June 08, 2020, 01:18:22 PM
KP tosses salads in dallas
JR offers curbside service in L.A.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 09, 2020, 11:43:30 AM
I guess when you're not invited to finish out the regular season, that your team is officially irrelevant.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 09, 2020, 12:35:13 PM
We  always have the Portis saga
Title: Au Contraire
Post by: lesterluv on June 09, 2020, 12:40:01 PM
We're the news today....Dolan finally puts out a statement the day after Caron Butler absolutely blasts him:

“I know a lot of players are like: How can I run through a brick wall for this organization?”

https://nypost.com/2020/06/09/knicks-finally-comment-on-george-floyd-killing/ (https://nypost.com/2020/06/09/knicks-finally-comment-on-george-floyd-killing/)

Title: Re: Band Of Others
Post by: chipstern on June 09, 2020, 11:26:02 PM
Quote from: Kam on June 08, 2020, 11:26:43 AM
Quote from: chipstern on June 08, 2020, 11:21:44 AM

Don't actually have any recollections of the other two. 

 

He means "Biz" (thebizneverloses) and "Flinter" (exmachina)

Thanks. 

It has been a while. 

Hope they are well. 

If so, happy that they have something better to do than debate about draft picks, free agents and why Dolan always manages to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory [the recent #BlackLivesMatter miscue being bizarre in the extreme, even for a Trump Campaign Donor).

Anyway, it's a dirty job but someone has to do it. 

PS: As per Dawg, the Caron Butler quote was epic.  Never mind about free agents coming here. Hell, Porzingis was the annionted one, and HE WANTED OUT. 

PPS: Oh, well...

To Be A Knick Fan Is To SUFFER
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 10, 2020, 09:15:02 AM
“I know a lot of players are like: How can I run through a brick wall for this organization?”


uhhh...

your salary says that you should?
Title: SUAD
Post by: carlos123 on June 10, 2020, 10:02:50 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 10, 2020, 09:15:02 AM
“I know a lot of players are like: How can I run through a brick wall for this organization?”


uhhh...

your salary says that you should?

Chico, shut up and dribble 🤡
Title: NBA Trivia
Post by: Kam on June 10, 2020, 07:40:39 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on June 09, 2020, 11:43:30 AM
I guess when you're not invited to finish out the regular season, that your team is officially irrelevant.

On the topic of irrelevance this is now the 47th straight year the Knicks will not win a Title.

Only five franchises have been waiting longer (for either their first title or) since their last title.

Name them.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 10, 2020, 08:16:26 PM
The rising death toll and comprehensive incompetence of Florida’s governor’s office is giving players pause and may force the league to downsize its plans to 16 teams or fewer along with forcing it to devise a mechanism to replace players on rosters who won’t risk their health to prematurely restart the league.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 10, 2020, 08:19:52 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 10, 2020, 08:16:26 PM
The rising death toll and comprehensive incompetence of Florida’s governor’s office is giving players pause and may force the league to downsize its plans to 16 teams or fewer along with forcing it to devise a mechanism to replace players on rosters who won’t risk their health to prematurely restart the league.

There's also talk of older coaches not being on the sidelines.. Pop, D'antoni, and Gentry would be affected.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 10, 2020, 08:34:23 PM
I dont see them staying away, Kam.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 10, 2020, 08:36:48 PM
Me neither.  But i don't know why they don't just invest in some astronaut type climate-controlled suits for the elders.  Or for that matter any non-player/ref who wants them.    It would be fun to watch and a nod to safety.
Title: Re: NBA Trivia
Post by: bodiddley on June 11, 2020, 04:29:49 AM
Quote from: Kam on June 10, 2020, 07:40:39 PM
On the topic of irrelevance this is now the 47th straight year the Knicks will not win a Title.

Only five franchises have been waiting longer (for either their first title or) since their last title.
Name them.

Just saw something the other day about how the ATL sports teams generally never win.

So ATL is definitely one.
SD/LA Clippers too

PHX -- made one 70's Finals; no titles
SAC/KC Kings
MIL  -- Kareem got them a title in between the Knick two championships.  So they've been waiting nearly as long.
They haven't been to the Finals since trading Kareem.  Giannis trying to change that.

I think I got em all.

Out of the 4 ABA teams that joined the NBA, only SA Spurs have won a title.
But DEN, NETS, IND all joined in '76, a few years after the Knix last title.  So they've been dry nearly as long as NYK.  Dr. J's Nets won 2 or 3 ABA titles mid-70's after the Knix last title.

Hawks & Kings are the only two old NBA teams with a longer drought.

The other three and the 3 ABA teams have droughts pretty similar to NYK.

So Knix only 3rd most pathetic NBA franchise.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 11, 2020, 04:33:08 AM
Quote from: Kam on June 10, 2020, 08:36:48 PM
Me neither.  But i don't know why they don't just invest in some astronaut type climate-controlled suits for the elders.  Or for that matter any non-player/ref who wants them.    It would be fun to watch and a nod to safety.

I saw a pic of the key Chinese doc in the Wuhan infectious disease lab wearing a completely inflatable suit like some of the mascots.  I assume it had its own ventilation/respirator system.  Looked wacky.  I'll see if I can find the photo.
No word if she can bounce on one hand while doing lab work.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 11, 2020, 03:09:48 PM
As a Knicks fan, I wish you would come here. Madison Square Garden is so great. Damian Lillard: I thought I was headed there a few years ago; I was hearing trade rumors. The Garden is my favorite place to play. – via Lisa Robinson @ Vanity Fair




https://hoopshype.com/rumors/
Title: GUESS What?
Post by: chipstern on June 11, 2020, 04:01:56 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 10, 2020, 08:16:26 PM
The rising death toll and comprehensive incompetence of Florida’s governor’s office is giving players pause and may force the league to downsize its plans to 16 teams or fewer along with forcing it to devise a mechanism to replace players on rosters who won’t risk their health to prematurely restart the league.

Trump is looking to move the Republican National Convention from Charlotte to....

wait for it...Wait For It...WAIT FOR IT.

JACKSONVILLE, Florida. 

The entire state will be a fucking petrie dish. 
Title: Free Agents Swearing Love & Fealty To New York
Post by: chipstern on June 11, 2020, 04:39:28 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 11, 2020, 03:09:48 PM
As a Knicks fan, I wish you would come here. Madison Square Garden is so great. Damian Lillard: I thought I was headed there a few years ago; I was hearing trade rumors. The Garden is my favorite place to play. – via Lisa Robinson @ Vanity Fair




https://hoopshype.com/rumors/

Kiid, there is a long and honored tradition of players swearing love and fealty to New York City and its fans. 

And who ended up coming here? 

Hmmmm.

Amare.  K.

Melo forced a trade, which eviscerated our roster and prevented us from being contenders, irrespective of Anthony's all-star stature as an offensive force. 

Who else?

Jason Kidd in the winter of his career, and he was a mogtherfucker until old age caught up with him in the playoffs.  Woodson gets undue credit for Kidd's leadership and skill on the floor, let alone KT and Rasheed. 

This is a job for BoD, but correct me if I am wrong, wasn't the last significant FREE AGENT to sign with New York...ALLAN HOUSTON? 

The problem is not the players on the floor, it is not the city, it is not THE FANS, or THE GARDEN. 

The problem is the decision makers, and that begins at the top with Mister Dolan. 

DECISION MAKING.  Trickles Down. 

Larry Brown dissing Ariza.

D'Antoni humiliating Marbury. 

Phil Jackson (and his sheep dog, Charlie Rosen) hanging Melo out to dry. 

Rambis humiliating Fredette. 

Hornacek humiliating Noah. 

Fizdale humiliating Kanter. 

You would never see such petty, dickweedish behavior from an actual factual MAN, like Greg Popovtich. 

Most people say that one on one, Dolan is a likeable guy.  I sat next to him at the Cream Concert in 2005, and he was a pleasant enough person. 

But it is almost as if he occupies his own personal BIZARRO WORLD, where wrong it right, down is up, black is white. 

Given his relationship with his father, he seems to have a real need to prove himself, as if, I DID IT ON MY OWN. 

Well...as far as making money, for himself and his share holders, James has been pretty prescient, no doubt. 

But again, he has this tick, where he is almost compelled to do the exact opposite of what is called for, to dig in his heels for no good reason other than obstinacy.  It is a childish compulsion.  Like what went down with Zeke and Stephon and the sex harassment suit.  Would have been so easy just to settle, but it became a matter of principle, the principle being, apparently, PRIVILEGE. 

This whole Black Lives Matter thang has been SO MISHANDLED, and it was such a no-brainer. 

It's not like Dolan seems a racist.  He has empowered a lot of African Americans in positions of authority, visble reps of the corporate state.   

My personal take? 

Dolan counts Trump as a friend, God help him, but hey, different strokes. 

Still, standing up for Trump, as Dolan is a MAJOR TRUM DONOR, would not sit well with his fan base or the local media, save for the POST, so he tried to finesse the whole George Floyd martyrdom and the Movement it birthed, world wide, by saying nothing, pretty much. 

Trouble is, in a court of law, SILENCE = ASSENT.

No, I don't think Dolan is a fucking racist, more like a toddleresque ass-clown.  He didn't want to negatively impact Trump, so he basically tap danced around things with not one, but two very too little too late, testosterone-deficient corporate statements.  Which in so many words, said in so many words....NOTHING. 

But his lack of action spoke voumes. 

And this, AND THIS, after hiring Leon Rose, who has a lifetime of positive interactions with African American clients, who made solid African American additions to the Knicks corporate and hoops hierarchy, who was brought on to project, and so far so good, competency, professionalism, and an abillity to relate to the modern pro hoopster, and create a welcoming environment for talent. 

So, sorry Kiid, but Dolan, once again, is a dime late and a dollar short, and pausing only to reload, has shot himself and this sotired franchise, RIGHT IN THE FUCKING FOOT. 

To

Be

A

Knicks

Fan

Is

To...OhNeverYouFuckingMind. 

PS: I reckon Lillard knows he would be afforded GODLIKE treatment.  But what do you reckon the over under would be that he suits up.  Right up there with Kevin Durant, Kawhi Leonard, Trae Young, Giannis...Dream FUCKING onnnnnnnnnnnnn...
Title: Re: GUESS What?
Post by: lesterluv on June 11, 2020, 05:09:38 PM
Quote from: chipstern on June 11, 2020, 04:01:56 PM

Trump is looking to move the Republican National Convention from Charlotte to....

wait for it...Wait For It...WAIT FOR IT.

JACKSONVILLE, Florida. 

The entire state will be a fucking petrie dish.

And the first reopening campaign rally.....  Juneteenth in Tulsa

https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2020/06/11/juneteenth-trump-rally-tulsa-race-massacre/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2020/06/11/juneteenth-trump-rally-tulsa-race-massacre/)

I know his old man was a KKK member and all, but the Donald really does seem hell-bent on going down as a legendary figure in the history of American racism.
Title: Re: NBA Trivia
Post by: Kam on June 11, 2020, 05:42:12 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on June 11, 2020, 04:29:49 AM
Quote from: Kam on June 10, 2020, 07:40:39 PM
On the topic of irrelevance this is now the 47th straight year the Knicks will not win a Title.

Only five franchises have been waiting longer (for either their first title or) since their last title.
Name them.

Just saw something the other day about how the ATL sports teams generally never win.

So ATL is definitely one.
SD/LA Clippers too

PHX -- made one 70's Finals; no titles
SAC/KC Kings
MIL  -- Kareem got them a title in between the Knick two championships.  So they've been waiting nearly as long.
They haven't been to the Finals since trading Kareem.  Giannis trying to change that.

I think I got em all.

Out of the 4 ABA teams that joined the NBA, only SA Spurs have won a title.
But DEN, NETS, IND all joined in '76, a few years after the Knix last title.  So they've been dry nearly as long as NYK.  Dr. J's Nets won 2 or 3 ABA titles mid-70's after the Knix last title.

Hawks & Kings are the only two old NBA teams with a longer drought.

The other three and the 3 ABA teams have droughts pretty similar to NYK.

So Knix only 3rd most pathetic NBA franchise.


Good work Bo!

Years.        Teams          Last Title
69   Sacramento Kings     1951   
62   Atlanta Hawks.         1958   
52   Phoenix Suns           Never   
50   Los Angeles Clippers Never   
49   Milwaukee Bucks      1971   
47   New York Knicks      1973

We aren't really that much worse off than the average team when you think about it... 
13 teams are going on 40+ years without a title. 
17 teams are going on 30+ years without a title.
Rockets and Grizzlies:  25 years without a title.
That leaves 11 teams who haven't had to wait that long,
10 teams if you don't count New Orleans which hasn't won yet
And Toronto just won their first ...

To be an Insert NBA team name here fan is to (most of the time) suffer.
Title: Re: GUESS What?
Post by: chipstern on June 11, 2020, 06:10:47 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on June 11, 2020, 05:09:38 PM
Quote from: chipstern on June 11, 2020, 04:01:56 PM

Trump is looking to move the Republican National Convention from Charlotte to....

wait for it...Wait For It...WAIT FOR IT.

JACKSONVILLE, Florida. 

The entire state will be a fucking petrie dish.

Trump makes George Wallace look like MLK

As a matter of fact, in his dotage, Wallace tried to make amends with black folk, so to speak. 

Trump is a troll of  Biblical Proportions. 

God Help Us All. 

And the first reopening campaign rally.....  Juneteenth in Tulsa

https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2020/06/11/juneteenth-trump-rally-tulsa-race-massacre/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2020/06/11/juneteenth-trump-rally-tulsa-race-massacre/)

I know his old man was a KKK member and all, but the Donald really does seem hell-bent on going down as a legendary figure in the history of American racism.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 12, 2020, 02:17:15 AM
There's what appears to be a very good George Wallace documentary on PBS.  George Wallace: Setting the Woods on Fire (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0240534/).

There was an article the other day saying that while Trump has been quoting Nixon recently (weird enough), he's really more in the Wallace mode of race provocation.  But I'll save that for the Politics thread.

As for MSG/Knix, Dolan has to realize that it's the organization that needs to put out a statement. he doesn't need to be involved or craft it.  He doesn't need to personally get involved.  just farm it out to someone who can handle it, preferably someone who is genuinely concerned about police brutality.
Title: Re: Free Agents Swearing Love & Fealty To New York
Post by: bodiddley on June 12, 2020, 02:31:29 AM
Quote from: chipstern on June 11, 2020, 04:39:28 PM
The problem is the decision makers, and that begins at the top with Mister Dolan. 
DECISION MAKING.  Trickles Down. 

Larry Brown dissing Ariza.
D'Antoni humiliating Marbury. 
Phil Jackson (and his sheep dog, Charlie Rosen) hanging Melo out to dry. 
Rambis humiliating Fredette. 
Hornacek humiliating Noah. 
Fizdale humiliating Kanter. 

You would never see such petty, dickweedish behavior from an actual factual MAN, like Greg Popovtich. 

And we see it trickle down from the coaches to the players.
So you also get Marbury dissing Frye.
Melo dissing Lin
Probably others.

Then there's always friction between the front office and coaches, so you get Larry Brown holding press conferences on the side of the road and such.  Rambo as Phil's spy.  Herb as Dolan's spy for a looong time.  Etc.

Just a poor (and reportedly paranoid) corporate culture, where nobody can relax, everybody needs to try to show off for Dolan, because he's watching/micromanaging, and no cohesion between the front office/coaches/players.   Too many restarts, reshuffles, revolving doors.

Players always talk about the mystique of MSG.  And they enjoy partying it up in NYC.  But not all can handle that (as JEarl admitted).   Front office and coaching stability would help a lot, because then there would be a defined culture players can step into, instead of a bunch of ad hoc/chaos that many will take advantage of or be unable to improve.

I think Franc is our longest tenured Knick and we have an interim coach.  Contrast to MIA where Haslem and Spo have been there for decades. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 12, 2020, 04:25:48 AM
I’m going with this. Leon Rose has had a pretty good outsider’s seat to the life and crimes of MSG as it relates to the Knicks organization. With that knowledge, he took the job for one of two reasons.

Either he took it so he could sort of do the job for a little while then fuck off with the entire contract as most people do in this organization

Or, looking at the assets and liabilities of the franchise from the perspective of client after client, Rose has a plan and wants to see if it will work. The biggest issue is Dolan Dolan not only needs to let Rose do his job, but he needs to let Rose be his agent and turn around his image and status in the basketball world.

I don’t envy Rose at all, but I’m still nursing a small hope he can pull it off.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 12, 2020, 05:07:05 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 12, 2020, 04:25:48 AM
Either he took it so he could sort of do the job for a little while then fuck off with the entire contract as most people do in this organization

Too true.  Most folks look at NYK as a cash cow without much accountability.
Work 3 years for 5 years salary at top dollar.  I could go for that.


Title: ELBA Alert [Possible JOSH SILVER Siting]
Post by: chipstern on June 12, 2020, 02:27:33 PM
Did any of you just receive an e-mail from

GIORGI DEMOUTON

with

JOSH SILVER in the subject line?

It contained a https:/  LINK which I did not open.

Closed with

Josh Silver
vappa


I pass this along in the hope that ELBA Progenitor Josh Silver is OK, and that there is nothing sinister in this message, save perhaps that Josh might have gotten hacked? 

PS: My computer died back in January, so I lost many of my email contacts' addresses, JOSH SILVER's included...OR ELSE I WOULD HAVE FORWARD THIS TO HIM.  If any of you have his email address, kindly post it.  Thanks. 
Title: Re: ELBA Alert [Possible JOSH SILVER Siting]
Post by: Kam on June 12, 2020, 03:38:46 PM
Quote from: chipstern on June 12, 2020, 02:27:33 PM
Did any of you just receive an e-mail from

GIORGI DEMOUTON

with

JOSH SILVER in the subject line?

It contained a https:/  LINK which I did not open.

Closed with

Josh Silver
vappa


I pass this along in the hope that ELBA Progenitor Josh Silver is OK, and that there is nothing sinister in this message, save perhaps that Josh might have gotten hacked? 

PS: My computer died back in January, so I lost many of my email contacts' addresses, JOSH SILVER's included...OR ELSE I WOULD HAVE FORWARD THIS TO HIM.  If any of you have his email address, kindly post it.  Thanks.

Hey Chip,

You can message him thru the elba messaging link up top.   He's also in the trump forum.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 12, 2020, 09:14:36 PM
Horse shit article on Edwards

https://www.nbadraft.net/situational-analysis-anthony-edwards/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 13, 2020, 10:59:47 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on June 12, 2020, 09:14:36 PM
Horse shit article on Edwards

https://www.nbadraft.net/situational-analysis-anthony-edwards/

Too cruel or too kind?
Title: Wishful thinking?
Post by: carlos123 on June 15, 2020, 10:55:11 PM
“A chemical compound that’s not quite an alkaline is an ‘alkaloid.’ In the same way Trump and his ilk are ‘fascoid’—near it, but not quite the same, a failure even as fascists.” -DF

Fac, I hope you're right. Remember, the German "establishment" made Hitler chancellor when the nazis were actually losing voters because they thought he was a clown that they could control. Lets see what happens with the 2020 elections. You know if he doesn't win he's pre-accusing Michigan and other states of fraud. You also know Bill Barr is going to go for it. So there is a possibility of a Trump dynasty, with Ivanka president in 2024...

Besides, unfortunately, Democrats are very good at tearing defeat from the jaws of victory.

Who is DF?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 16, 2020, 12:14:26 AM
Noted conservative David Frum.

The best outcome is for the painted hemorrhoid to suffer his final stroke on election night as he fails to pick up 30% of the vote. If something else were to transpire, I’d prefer it to be sooner rather than later.

I’m hardened to know Biden has kept his channels open with the military brass, so if it come frog marching time, there is a plan in place to do so.

The fragile slippery turd is a self proclaimed scorpion, so you have to keep an eye on him until he is well and truly drowned, or squished, or otherwise dismembered.

Trump has managed to combine the most embarrassing and disturbing aspects of Isiah Thomas’s and Phil Jackson’s Knicks tenures in a far more important job without achieving nearly as much winning.
Title: Pure Genius
Post by: carlos123 on June 16, 2020, 01:38:41 AM
Fac, you’re truly a GENIUS

I mean, how do you come up with...

Painted hemorrhoid
Slippery turd
Self proclaimed scorpion
Drowned, squished or otherwise dismembered
                 And last but not least ...
...managed to combine the most embarrassing... aspects of Isiah Thomas and Phool Jackson’s Knicks tenures... without achieving nearly as much WINNING

ALL IN A SINGLE POST?

Only one answer:

PURE GENIUS


PS. The color is not for the orange and blue. It’s for the paint color in painted hemorrhoid.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 16, 2020, 08:37:35 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 13, 2020, 10:59:47 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on June 12, 2020, 09:14:36 PM
Horse shit article on Edwards

https://www.nbadraft.net/situational-analysis-anthony-edwards/

Too cruel or too kind?

The former, of course.

But I have only seen Edwards a few times - we'll see.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 16, 2020, 08:48:16 AM
Isola on radio today saying NBA should have gone with just sixteen teams - that there was no need for Suns and Wizards, etc.  to be there.

I like the setup.  Race to stay out of the 8/9 scenario in East.  Race to make sure you are in top 9 in West.

Can Suns leap frog 4 teams?  Could Memphis (3 game lead on many teams) choke their way out o playoffs?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on June 16, 2020, 11:16:36 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 16, 2020, 12:14:26 AM

Trump has managed to combine the most embarrassing and disturbing aspects of Isiah Thomas’s and Phil Jackson’s Knicks tenures in a far more important job without achieving nearly as much winning.

The Juneteenth June 20th rally in Tulsa will be the whipped topping on his idiocy presidency.

20,000 maskless white racists jammed together in a hot arena screaming and frothing in a viral particulate spreading frenzy — even as Oklahoma reports record high COVID-19 cases.

heh....



*** remember to sign those coronavirus waivers before you enter....heh...hee ...haw...go get it peckerwoods!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 16, 2020, 11:30:03 AM
Zak Low preferred 20 teams, opining that PHX and WAS were unnecessary.
Seems the proposal has each team with 35 personnel.  Of that, teams can have 15-17 players (so there are built-in replacements if anyone gets ill).
If that's right, then that equals 770 team members.  And an extra thousand plus to run things.  So they are talking 2000 people total.

I was trying to keep numbers down and teams down (16).  But the NBA wants more games to get more money.  Meaning more people involved.
Still a fair chance this scheme falls apart.  Though I assume most NBA players feel they are healthy and invincible, and want to get paid as close to their full salary as possible.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 16, 2020, 04:25:07 PM
Edwards does not know enough basketball to be made the man on day one. Taking that into account, what are you getting if he never knows much more basketball than he does now, which is something that happens?

I think you are still getting a solid off-guard/wing, someone who’d look good with Steph or Trae giving him his opportunities.

I have Edwards just behind Ball and Hayes for us and behind Okongwu, about even with Deni, and just ahead of Haliburton and Vassell.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 16, 2020, 04:27:04 PM
Too much time has gone by already between March and today, let alone late July.

Restarting in late july with no fans = glorified summer league.

I will probably watch.  ... because what else is there? .... but I won't watch with as much enthusiasm.

I may even be bored enough to just tune in for the final few minutes.

Like, is anyone going to really thump their chest as 2020 champion?

All momentum is lost.

The right thing to do is CANCEL THE SEASON.

Focus on health, focus on making the world a better place.

Nobody cares who will win the 2020 chip.

Well.....  maybe .000006% of the population will care.

The Washington Nationals winning the World Series in 2019 vs the Houston Cheaters and The KC Chiefs coming back to win the SB after trailing in the 1st halves of every game.... those were some damn good games with well deserved victors.  Whatever the NBA puts out as its winning product will pale in comparison.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 16, 2020, 04:28:37 PM
http://mobile.twitter.com/FredKatz/status/1272707205163298816 (http://mobile.twitter.com/FredKatz/status/1272707205163298816)

Quote
Adam Silver to ESPN: “My sense is we’re gonna be able to work through most of those issues the next few weeks. … We have an agreement with the players association. If a player chooses not to come, it’s not a breach of his contract. We accept that

What is the player replacement pool? How will that be handled in terms of team salary and cap, assuming the roster spot gets treated as open?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 16, 2020, 04:32:10 PM
Quote from: Kam on June 16, 2020, 04:27:04 PM
Too much time has gone by already between March and today, let alone late July.

Restarting in late july with no fans = glorified summer league.

I will probably watch.  ... because what else is there? .... but I won't watch with as much enthusiasm.

I may even be bored enough to just tune in for the final few minutes.

Like, is anyone going to really thump their chest as 2020 champion?

All momentum is lost.

The right thing to do is CANCEL THE SEASON.

Focus on health, focus on making the world a better place.

Nobody cares who will win the 2020 chip.

Well.....  maybe .000006% of the population will care.

The Washington Nationals winning the World Series in 2019 vs the Houston Cheaters and The KC Chiefs coming back to win the SB after trailing in the 1st halves of every game.... those were some damn good games with well deserved victors.  Whatever the NBA puts out as its winning product will pale in comparison.

That was my feeling when they shut it down. Things have gone a bit worse than I expected by just about every metric, thanks to Putin’s girdled leprosy, the offal in the Oval, pisster trump, so I agree even more strongly today.
Title: A league of their own
Post by: Kam on June 16, 2020, 10:43:29 PM
Quote
According to Stefan Bondy of the New York Daily News, Irving said the Nets should skip the NBA's restart at Disney World during a group chat with his teammates. He also proposed the idea that players around the league start their own league.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 16, 2020, 10:46:37 PM
Any good Dinwiddie does diminishes Kyrie
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 17, 2020, 03:15:02 AM
Ah, that good old Kyrie leadership.

Still say Knix got lucky and dodged a bullet by missing out on Kyrie & Durant.

I assume the fact that they are under contract already means they can't form their own league.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on June 17, 2020, 01:21:58 PM
Quote from: Kam on June 16, 2020, 04:27:04 PM
Too much time has gone by already between March and today, let alone late July.

Restarting in late july with no fans = glorified summer league.

I will probably watch.  ... because what else is there? .... but I won't watch with as much enthusiasm.

I may even be bored enough to just tune in for the final few minutes.

Like, is anyone going to really thump their chest as 2020 champion?

All momentum is lost.

The right thing to do is CANCEL THE SEASON.

Focus on health, focus on making the world a better place.

Nobody cares who will win the 2020 chip.

Well.....  maybe .000006% of the population will care.

The Washington Nationals winning the World Series in 2019 vs the Houston Cheaters and The KC Chiefs coming back to win the SB after trailing in the 1st halves of every game.... those were some damn good games with well deserved victors.  Whatever the NBA puts out as its winning product will pale in comparison.

I basically agree-sure if they resume, I'll root for the Celts, but no matter what, this season carries either a period, prematurely ending the season, or and asterisk pointing out the counterfeit currency.

But it seems the NBA is making plans to tip-off July 30th*. 

The NBA has just released its 113-page guidelines for reopening its seaon in Orlando-Disneyworld. I haven't read it, but saw the highlights of it, and its a sobering thought the NBA has a more detailed science-based plan about resuming the sport, than the Trump Admininistration has about safely reopening the US.
Title: In CLOD We Trust
Post by: chipstern on June 17, 2020, 02:18:46 PM
E Pluribus?

SPURN HIM

(https://media.giphy.com/media/eU2PxFT7ii7AY/giphy.gif)

Come For The Racism

Stay For THE PLAGUE

(https://i.gifer.com/DayL.gif)

Title: Re: In CLOD We Trust
Post by: lesterluv on June 17, 2020, 02:42:23 PM
Quote from: chipstern on June 17, 2020, 02:18:46 PM
Come For The Racism

Stay For THE PLAGUE


lol, lol, lol....
Title: Re: In CLOD We Trust
Post by: chipstern on June 17, 2020, 05:32:00 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on June 17, 2020, 02:42:23 PM
Quote from: chipstern on June 17, 2020, 02:18:46 PM
Come For The Racism

Stay For THE PLAGUE


lol, lol, lol....

Originally scheduled for Juneteenth, before the backlash became even too much for the Folks at Dog Whistle Central. 

Sadly, Dawg, there is no laugh track for the destruction of Black Wall Street, the self-sufficient black Greenwood neighborhood in Tulsa, 99 years ago, on May 32-June 1, 1921.  The good white folks of Tulsa, burnt it to the fucking grounds, and killed several hundred people. 

TRUMP 2020. 

(https://okpolicy.org/wp-content/uploads/Tulsa_Race_Riot__1921__Ok__Hist__Soc__.jpg)

Make America HATE Again. 

And again

And again...

PS: Please note the caption on the photo.  Cracker dickweeds too stupid to spell: "Runin the negro out of Tulsa,"  But hey, no systemic racism in Amerika, eh?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on June 17, 2020, 09:59:17 PM
So I was actually contemplating driving all the way out to Tulsa had he kept the rally on 6/19.

Lend a body to the counter rally. Some moments just need to be acted on.

Now that he's switched it to 6/20, I'll settle for my making my voice heard here in NYC, and laughing my fucking ass off as I watch the the virus spread among his supporters the next day on TV.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 17, 2020, 10:26:51 PM
...I'll settle for my making my voice heard here in NYC, and laughing my fucking ass off as I watch the the virus spread among his supporters ....


Even if it doesn't, expect them to say it is.
Title: too STOOPID for words
Post by: carlos123 on June 17, 2020, 10:51:43 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 17, 2020, 10:26:51 PM
...I'll settle for my making my voice heard here in NYC, and laughing my fucking ass off as I watch the the virus spread among his supporters ....


Even if it doesn't, expect them to say it is.

What do you expect, with 19,000 people packed indoors while screaming and, of course, no masks?

Too bad all of the spittle won't reach the stage.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on June 17, 2020, 11:19:48 PM
lol, Kiid such an idiot, we know exactly how this virus is spread.

We know exactly what are super-spreader indoor transmission events, the Korean church gathering, the Washington state choir practice, masks off, voices raised, go!

This is perfect, too perfect.


Oklahoma saw the highest percentage spike in coronavirus cases in the US on Monday, only days before Donald Trump’s first campaign rally since march is planned to go ahead in Tulsa on Saturday.


Heh....
Title: Make America Sick Again
Post by: bodiddley on June 18, 2020, 02:52:41 AM
Face masks are for wimps. The kind who live in fear and let government take away their fundamental right to breathe on other people.  The kind who huddle in their basements like Joe Biden.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 18, 2020, 12:19:47 PM
I do have to wonder why not an outdoor event in OK.

Likely has something to do with cash.  Charging megabucks to get in the building.

But to each his own - each that goes to the rally knows the risk

Until there is definitive proof -  where one can say, "you got yourself infected, then got THAT PERSON killed" -  til then all it is is each person watching out for one's self.  And even if numbers go up - again - it was each rally attendees choice.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 18, 2020, 01:03:14 PM
People shouldn't have the choice to become a super-spreader and kill/infect large numbers.

That's the whole reason that large-scale events were cancelled to begin with, and are still banned in most states and countries.  They are inherently high risk and dangerous.  The welfare of society at large trumps individual right to do as one wishes, when it can endanger many/all.

Somehow it made sense to you and other righties when it came to curfews ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 18, 2020, 01:15:00 PM























People shouldn't have the choice to become a super-spreader and kill/infect large numbers.




You cannot prove someone will be infected.  Or even that they likely will.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 18, 2020, 01:19:43 PM
As far as welfare goes - getting out to an event such is this has extreme benefit.

Not being in lockdown has extreme benefit.

Living is LIVING.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 18, 2020, 01:45:03 PM
And Dead is Dead.
Title: Like...W-o-W
Post by: chipstern on June 18, 2020, 02:14:40 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 18, 2020, 01:19:43 PM
As far as welfare goes - getting out to an event such is this has extreme benefit.

Not being in lockdown has extreme benefit.

Living is LIVING.

W-o-W
Title: Center of attention
Post by: carlos123 on June 18, 2020, 02:25:38 PM
I think, like Trumptin, Chico just wants to be at the center of every conversation.

And he’s getting plenty of attention in here.
Title: Not FADE Away
Post by: chipstern on June 18, 2020, 02:35:46 PM
Quote from: chipstern on June 18, 2020, 02:14:40 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 18, 2020, 01:19:43 PM
As far as welfare goes - getting out to an event such is this has extreme benefit.

Not being in lockdown has extreme benefit.

Living is LIVING.

W-o-W





16 Bar Patrons & 7 Employees Living Life to the FULLEST. 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/florida-night-town-ends-apparent-coronavirus-outbreak-n1231226 (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/florida-night-town-ends-apparent-coronavirus-outbreak-n1231226)

In JACKSONVILLE.

Home to the Republican National Convention In AUGUST. 

Trump To Hannity in an [cough] exclusive interview?

President Trump declared during an exclusive interview with "Hannity" Wednesday that the coronavirus is "fading away"


https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/18/politics/sean-hannity-donald-trump-john-bolton/index.html (https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/18/politics/sean-hannity-donald-trump-john-bolton/index.html)

(https://res.cloudinary.com/teepublic/image/private/s--fRCQSBEA--/t_Resized%20Artwork/c_fit,g_north_west,h_954,w_954/co_484849,e_outline:48/co_484849,e_outline:inner_fill:48/co_ffffff,e_outline:48/co_ffffff,e_outline:inner_fill:48/co_bbbbbb,e_outline:3:1000/c_mpad,g_center,h_1260,w_1260/b_rgb:eeeeee/c_limit,f_jpg,h_630,q_90,w_630/v1532037152/production/designs/2912124_0.jpg)


Title: Re: Not FADE Away
Post by: facilitatorn on June 18, 2020, 06:51:11 PM
Quote from: chipstern on June 18, 2020, 02:35:46 PM
Quote from: chipstern on June 18, 2020, 02:14:40 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 18, 2020, 01:19:43 PM
As far as welfare goes - getting out to an event such is this has extreme benefit.

Not being in lockdown has extreme benefit.

Living is LIVING.

W-o-W





16 Bar Patrons & 7 Employees Living Life to the FULLEST. 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/florida-night-town-ends-apparent-coronavirus-outbreak-n1231226 (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/florida-night-town-ends-apparent-coronavirus-outbreak-n1231226)

In JACKSONVILLE.

Home to the Republican National Convention In AUGUST. 

Trump To Hannity in an [cough] exclusive interview?

President Trump declared during an exclusive interview with "Hannity" Wednesday that the coronavirus is "fading away"


https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/18/politics/sean-hannity-donald-trump-john-bolton/index.html (https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/18/politics/sean-hannity-donald-trump-john-bolton/index.html)

(https://res.cloudinary.com/teepublic/image/private/s--fRCQSBEA--/t_Resized%20Artwork/c_fit,g_north_west,h_954,w_954/co_484849,e_outline:48/co_484849,e_outline:inner_fill:48/co_ffffff,e_outline:48/co_ffffff,e_outline:inner_fill:48/co_bbbbbb,e_outline:3:1000/c_mpad,g_center,h_1260,w_1260/b_rgb:eeeeee/c_limit,f_jpg,h_630,q_90,w_630/v1532037152/production/designs/2912124_0.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 18, 2020, 08:27:31 PM
16 Bar Patrons & 7 Employees Living Life to the FULLEST.


Right - they were dumb

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 18, 2020, 09:29:47 PM
... and so is every single person attending the Trump rally in Tulsa.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 18, 2020, 09:43:19 PM
Were the gals temp-checked?

Another media leading you by the nose event.
Title: enemy of the people?
Post by: carlos123 on June 18, 2020, 10:01:21 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 18, 2020, 09:43:19 PM
Were the gals temp-checked?

Another media leading you by the nose event.

"Another media" the enemy of the people, right?

Who's leading you by the nose?

heh
Title: Re: enemy of the people?
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 18, 2020, 10:48:07 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on June 18, 2020, 10:01:21 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 18, 2020, 09:43:19 PM
Were the gals temp-checked?

Another (media leading you by the nose) event.

"Another media" the enemy of the people, right?

Who's leading you by the nose?

heh


Get it now?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 18, 2020, 11:35:20 PM
You’re scum. You spread poisonous bullshit. Your lust after lily white man flesh has you mistaking Jimmer Fredette for an NBA player and Adam Morrison as the next evolution of basketball.

We all get it.

We’d be sad for you if we weren’t all so disgusted by you.
Title: Re: enemy of the people?
Post by: carlos123 on June 18, 2020, 11:37:06 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 18, 2020, 10:48:07 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on June 18, 2020, 10:01:21 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 18, 2020, 09:43:19 PM
Were the gals temp-checked?

Another (media leading you by the nose) event.

"Another media" the enemy of the people, right?

Who's leading you by the nose?

heh


Get it now?

U really trying to “fix” it?

Truly, mini-Trumptin 🤣
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 19, 2020, 11:27:11 AM
Attaboy, 'los

Show off that 101 IQ
Title: I mean there's like butt-stupid, head-up-yer-ass stupid....and then there's kiid
Post by: lesterluv on June 19, 2020, 12:19:56 PM
well, 101 ain't much, true, but that puts his at least 60 points above yours as evidenced by the Tulsa posts alone.

heh

*** https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/06/19/oklahoma-coronavirus-covid-19-cases-rise-ahead-trump-tulsa-rally/3220736001/ (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/06/19/oklahoma-coronavirus-covid-19-cases-rise-ahead-trump-tulsa-rally/3220736001/)

**https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/06/health-officials-despair-as-the-trump-rally-rolls-into-town (https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/06/health-officials-despair-as-the-trump-rally-rolls-into-town)
Title: IQ 😁😂🤣
Post by: carlos123 on June 19, 2020, 01:28:27 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 19, 2020, 11:27:11 AM
Attaboy, 'los

Show off that 101 IQ

Now, show us how you are also a very stable genius by answering this question...

Where in Russia is Finland?

... you know, like is it in the South, the East, the Southwest?
Your idol Trumptin would appreciate your response.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 19, 2020, 04:41:09 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 19, 2020, 11:27:11 AM
Attaboy, 'los

Show off that 101 IQ

Bro

You're embarrassing your children. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on June 20, 2020, 12:15:41 AM
Unless Florida gets a hold of this thing, players will demand the NBA rethink Orlando.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/columnist/jeff-zillgitt/2020/06/19/coronavirus-florida-covid-19-cases-rising-nba-return/3225237001/ (https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/columnist/jeff-zillgitt/2020/06/19/coronavirus-florida-covid-19-cases-rising-nba-return/3225237001/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 20, 2020, 04:29:23 AM
A little coronavirus never hurt anyone ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 20, 2020, 01:16:55 PM
China back in action

J Lin over there now, with Beijing team, I believe.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 20, 2020, 01:21:31 PM
O J Mayo of all people has signed on with Liaoning
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 20, 2020, 04:38:53 PM
CBA shut down on Feb 1.
Intended to restart June 1.

Quote
More than half of the 20 teams in the CBA will compete without foreign players because most overseas visitors cannot enter China because of coronavirus travel restrictions.

A big advantage for the teams that have their foreign players.


I see some American guy named Sean Hill, 28 from Chicago State, joined one Chinese team.  He's played in some real out of the way places: Kazakhstan, Batumi Georgia (on the Black Sea, where Turks go to gamble), Lithuania, and most impressive for a team in the Republic of Artsakh, fka Nagorno-Karabakh, a chunk of Azerbaijan that Armenia took over by force in a war that started two years before the Soviet Union collapsed.  A disputed zone with its own autonomous gov't (not internationally recognized, and takes its cues from Armenia).  I didn't know they had sports teams that participate in the Armenian League.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 20, 2020, 05:08:56 PM
Intended to restart June 1.


Then pushed back to July

Then moved up again

Spanish league on LIVE on Eleven Sports
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on June 20, 2020, 10:45:22 PM
LMFAO....the coronabomb in Tulsa may have been avoided cause nobody fucking showed up.
Title: FLOP Goes The WEASEL
Post by: chipstern on June 21, 2020, 04:59:41 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on June 20, 2020, 10:45:22 PM
LMFAO....the coronabomb in Tulsa may have been avoided cause nobody fucking showed up.

(https://www.rawstory.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/trump_defeat1-2.jpg)

What?  Me WORRY?

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DvBbtf8WkAANTN3.jpg)

Title: LOL, only 6,200 idiots ....what a complete dumbfuck
Post by: lesterluv on June 21, 2020, 09:25:51 PM
just shows that even among the stupidest slice of racist American idiots, it's hard to find even 7,000 idiots as stupid as Kiid, let alone 19,000, or 100,000 or..er...a million



****the teen tik tok brigade rocked it pretty hard, too.... lol lol lol

****also turned out to be pretty hard to find thousands of antifa members criming & scheming in NYC, like really hard, like they couldn't even grab one
Title: Re: FLOP Goes The WEASEL
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 21, 2020, 10:09:22 PM
Quote from: chipstern on June 21, 2020, 04:59:41 PM


(https://www.rawstory.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/trump_defeat1-2.jpg)




Love this shot.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 21, 2020, 10:12:21 PM
Let's go!!!!!!!!!

Kyrie - stay the fuck home.


https://hoopshype.com/rumor/magic-ceo-confident-orlando-bubble-idea-is-safe/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 21, 2020, 11:13:43 PM
Did you make it to the Tulsa rally, Kiid?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on June 21, 2020, 11:40:11 PM
I went. I was concerned about the starting time so I called to ask when it was. "What time can you get here?" they asked.
Title: Re: FLOP Goes The WEASEL
Post by: carlos123 on June 22, 2020, 01:28:35 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 21, 2020, 10:09:22 PM
Quote from: chipstern on June 21, 2020, 04:59:41 PM


(https://www.rawstory.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/trump_defeat1-2.jpg)




Love this shot.

We all know you’re in love with the weasel
Title: Next up on the Pigfuck Racists Deathtour.....
Post by: lesterluv on June 22, 2020, 01:48:09 PM
The Dream City Church in Phoenix!

https://www.newsweek.com/arizona-covid-19-hospitalizations-soar-phoenix-trump-student-rally-1512574 (https://www.newsweek.com/arizona-covid-19-hospitalizations-soar-phoenix-trump-student-rally-1512574)

Just wait 'til we get to Florida....

heh

Tik Tok Tik Tok Tik Tok Tik Tok Tik Tok Tik Tok


The church only holds 3,000. I'm betting he can find 3K with kiid's sub-60 IQ. What you say fellas? What's the over / under?

Oklahoma, Florida, Arizona at the "tipping point" to exponential infection growth - and Fat Boy doing his very best to put them over the top..you couldn't make this shit up if you tried ....

https://www.upi.com/amp/Top_News/US/2020/06/22/Former-FDA-chief-warns-states-seeing-COVID-19-spikes-are-at-tipping-point/6301592845145/ (https://www.upi.com/amp/Top_News/US/2020/06/22/Former-FDA-chief-warns-states-seeing-COVID-19-spikes-are-at-tipping-point/6301592845145/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 22, 2020, 04:00:48 PM
An easy fix to the Tik Tok issue for the Trump campaign would be to require ticket purchasers to reserve seats using credit cards attached to local zip codes.
Title: TikTok fix
Post by: carlos123 on June 22, 2020, 07:47:26 PM
Quote from: Kam on June 22, 2020, 04:00:48 PM
An easy fix to the Tik Tok issue for the Trump campaign would be to require ticket purchasers to reserve seats using credit cards attached to local zip codes.

Hey Chico, you better send this fix to Brad Parscale before he gets fired.

(https://www.cjonline.com/storyimage/KS/20160904/NEWS/309049867/AR/0/AR-309049867.jpg)

Chico, enjoy the pic!
Title: Fair is fair
Post by: carlos123 on June 22, 2020, 10:59:44 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on June 22, 2020, 01:48:09 PM

heh

The church only holds 3,000. I'm betting he can find 3K with kiid's sub-60 IQ. What you say fellas? What's the over / under?


Les, you know you’re my doggie BUT

Your prior calculation gave Chico an IQ of 61, not sub-60.

FAIR IS FAIR.
Title: Re: Fair is fair
Post by: lesterluv on June 23, 2020, 12:31:59 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on June 22, 2020, 10:59:44 PM

Your prior calculation gave Chico an IQ of 61, not sub-60.

FAIR IS FAIR.

I had omitted Adam Morrison & Jimmer in my prior calculation. Post stands.
Title: Re: TikTok fix
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 23, 2020, 01:25:02 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on June 22, 2020, 07:47:26 PM
Quote from: Kam on June 22, 2020, 04:00:48 PM
An easy fix to the Tik Tok issue for the Trump campaign would be to require ticket purchasers to reserve seats using credit cards attached to local zip codes.

Hey Chico, you better send this fix to Brad Parscale before he gets fired.

(https://www.cjonline.com/storyimage/KS/20160904/NEWS/309049867/AR/0/AR-309049867.jpg)

Chico, enjoy the pic!

Why would I care if Brad were to be fired?  If that's what Jared wants, let's go.
Title: Re: Fair is fair
Post by: carlos123 on June 23, 2020, 03:08:35 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on June 23, 2020, 12:31:59 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on June 22, 2020, 10:59:44 PM

Your prior calculation gave Chico an IQ of 61, not sub-60.

FAIR IS FAIR.

I had omitted Adam Morrison & Jimmer in my prior calculation. Post stands.

Well, sometimes I feel sorry for poor Chico. You know, I can be a softie.

But you’re relentless. YOU MY DOGGIE!!!
Title: It’s IVANKA
Post by: carlos123 on June 23, 2020, 03:11:35 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on June 23, 2020, 01:25:02 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on June 22, 2020, 07:47:26 PM
Quote from: Kam on June 22, 2020, 04:00:48 PM
An easy fix to the Tik Tok issue for the Trump campaign would be to require ticket purchasers to reserve seats using credit cards attached to local zip codes.

Hey Chico, you better send this fix to Brad Parscale before he gets fired.

(https://www.cjonline.com/storyimage/KS/20160904/NEWS/309049867/AR/0/AR-309049867.jpg)

Chico, enjoy the pic!

Why would I care if Brad were to be fired?  If that's what Jared wants, let's go.

You got your message wrong. It’s IVANKA 2024, not Jared.

Get on with the program!
Title: Re: It’s IVANKA
Post by: facilitatorn on June 23, 2020, 03:58:07 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on June 23, 2020, 03:11:35 PM
You got your message wrong. It’s IVANKA 2024, not Jared.

Get on with the program!

2024 is going to be too soon for either to be out on work release.
Title: Re: It’s IVANKA
Post by: chipstern on June 23, 2020, 05:33:31 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 23, 2020, 03:58:07 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on June 23, 2020, 03:11:35 PM
You got your message wrong. It’s IVANKA 2024, not Jared.

Get on with the program!

2024 is going to be too soon for either to be out on work release.

WORD
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 23, 2020, 05:50:34 PM
Heh

I think he meant get with the program

Never said Kushner was running in 2024.

Don Jr is the only family member that has made overtures but I think I prefer Tiffany
Title: Re: It’s IVANKA
Post by: carlos123 on June 23, 2020, 06:22:23 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 23, 2020, 03:58:07 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on June 23, 2020, 03:11:35 PM
You got your message wrong. It’s IVANKA 2024, not Jared.

Get on with the program!

2024 is going to be too soon for either to be out on work release.

Fac, the message had only one individual target here: Chico Cartero.

For the rest of us, like Chip said, W-O-R-D.

Chico, it’s not Jr. like it’s not Jared. IVANKA is Daddy’s favorite because, according to that weasel, she’s HOT.
Title: The Joker
Post by: Kam on June 23, 2020, 08:30:52 PM
Nikola Jokic has Corona virus.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29354097/nuggets-nikola-jokic-tested-positive-coronavirus-serbia-return-us-delayed (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29354097/nuggets-nikola-jokic-tested-positive-coronavirus-serbia-return-us-delayed)

Jokic, who tested positive last week and has been asymptomatic, is expected to be cleared to travel to Denver within a week, sources said.

Per league protocols, Jokic will need two negative tests within 24 hours in Serbia before he can receive clearance to travel. Once he arrives in Denver, he'll need to undergo a cardiac screening and test negative once for the virus.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 24, 2020, 11:13:07 AM
Quote
Knicks hire CAA's William Wesley to advisory role (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29358210/knicks-hiring-caa-william-wesley-advisory-role)

It was only a matter of time before World Wide Wes worked in the Knick front office.
I don't know Leon Rose or WWWes, so i'll refrain from my usual gloom and doom (which tends to be accurate), but it seems a lot like the usual path of everybody cashes in at the Knicks expense.

Basically another wholesale makeover.
We'll see how long Scott Perry sticks around.
Anybody else from the old regime still in place?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 24, 2020, 11:17:32 AM
I saw the other day Knix were going to interview Jason Kidd and Mike Brown for the head coach job.  I'd be up for Kidd.  Smart, knows NYC, linked to our last successful season, understands the importance of PG play, etc.  Though he has been up for intrigue and drama in his coaching gigs, and NYC always has too much of that, and too much turmoil.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 24, 2020, 12:24:48 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 23, 2020, 05:50:34 PM
Heh

I think he meant get with the program

Never said Kushner was running in 2024.

Don Jr is the only family member that has made overtures but I think I prefer Tiffany

That daddy has to pay his girlfriend a stipend tool keep her interested says all you need to know about Jr.’s electability and charisma.

You sure pick some winners.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 24, 2020, 12:30:34 PM
60-40 Rose is here simply to loot the Knicks.

If under the pure looting scenario, he does it to fully, completely, and embarrassingly demonstrate that Dolan has no business around a basketball team and that finally gets Jimmy to sell, won’t it be worth the year or two of suffering and few hundred million he pries from the organization?

Until I see the coaching hire, I’m still not ruling out the possibility that Rose is playing it straight and that he wants to do a good job and help the team win.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 24, 2020, 01:12:27 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 24, 2020, 12:24:48 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 23, 2020, 05:50:34 PM
Heh

I think he meant get with the program

Never said Kushner was running in 2024.

Don Jr is the only family member that has made overtures but I think I prefer Tiffany

That daddy has to pay his girlfriend a stipend tool keep her interested says all you need to know about Jr.’s electability and charisma.

You sure pick some winners.

Message never seems to get through to you

I am no fan of Don Jr
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 24, 2020, 01:20:29 PM
Jr.’s got no conscience. He shoots (endangered species) from a cowardly safe distance. He’s utterly indefensible. He’s overpaid for negative production. And he’s white. I thought for sure he’d be your favorite.
Title: Chant heard around MSG
Post by: Kam on June 24, 2020, 01:42:23 PM
Leon Rose
Bring in your bros!
World Wide Wes
Clean up this mess!
Mr. Brock Aller
Our CBA stalwart!
Mr. Frank Zanin
Pro scout plannin!
Mr. Walt Perrin
Draft preparin!
Title: Re: Chant heard around MSG
Post by: facilitatorn on June 24, 2020, 02:01:48 PM
Quote from: Kam on June 24, 2020, 01:42:23 PM
Leon Rose
Bring in your bros!
World Wide Wes
Clean up this mess!
Mr. Brock Aller
Our CBA stalwart!
Mr. Frank Zanin
Pro scout plannin!
Mr. Walt Perrin
Draft preparin!

That group is what gives me hope that Leon actually wants to build a winner.
Title: Re: Chant heard around MSG
Post by: lesterluv on June 24, 2020, 02:24:55 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 24, 2020, 02:01:48 PM
Quote from: Kam on June 24, 2020, 01:42:23 PM
Leon Rose
Bring in your bros!
World Wide Wes
Clean up this mess!
Mr. Brock Aller
Our CBA stalwart!
Mr. Frank Zanin
Pro scout plannin!
Mr. Walt Perrin
Draft preparin!

That group is what gives me hope that Leon actually wants to build a winner.

Yep, building a brain trust, getting quietly...carefully..... the slightest bit optimistic
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on June 24, 2020, 02:53:37 PM
Now speaking of an anti-brain trust, here's my fave speaker at the racist death rally #2 in Phoenix last night:

https://twitter.com/brooklynmutt/status/1275582279289581571 (https://twitter.com/brooklynmutt/status/1275582279289581571)

"“Aunt Jemima was canceled… She was the picture of the American dream. She was a freed slave who went on to be the face of the pancake syrup." -- A student at Trump’s event on Tuesday
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 24, 2020, 04:34:38 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on June 24, 2020, 11:13:07 AM

We'll see how long Scott Perry sticks around.
Anybody else from the old regime still in place?

(https://external-preview.redd.it/MI3TZWqHTWjcByc1822gG7XLE82N8KWW0aNoKx-N2Sw.jpg?auto=webp&s=d830598fa9b8a1535dd118609a8965e85c6a67a9)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 24, 2020, 04:39:14 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on June 24, 2020, 11:13:07 AM

Anybody else from the old regime still in place?

Leon Rose is not expected to retain Perry’s two major scouting hires from 2017 — assistant GM Gerald Madkins and pro player personnel director Harold Ellis.

The contracts for Madkins, their college-scouting chief, and Ellis expire in August.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 24, 2020, 05:17:04 PM
I think there's about a 0% chance we re-up the interim coach.
Probably the coaching search has been extended and more big names bandied about to make Malone look even more obscure.

I'd rank them:
Atkinson
Jason Kidd
JVG
Thibodeaux
JAX
Ewing

I'm sticking to all ex-Knix.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 24, 2020, 05:38:24 PM
Ewing turned down aninterview.  He likely won't get another one, especially in light of the scandalous Georgetown season/off season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 24, 2020, 05:42:58 PM
On the list -

Jeresey guy, but with no ties to Knicks

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Fleming_(basketball)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 24, 2020, 05:45:25 PM
On the list -

Udoka, Delany, Hardy and MOSLEY

https://sports.yahoo.com/report-knicks-interview-mavericks-assistant-150051038.html

6 years under Carlisle - nice resume.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 24, 2020, 06:32:27 PM
On NBA restart plans

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/jun/24/nba-disney-world-return-basketball-coronavirus-florida (http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/jun/24/nba-disney-world-return-basketball-coronavirus-florida)

My coach rankings at the moment

JVG
Miller
Atkinson
Udoka
Thibs
some worthy assistant I’m unfamiliar with

Mike Brown


Kidd





Jax
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 24, 2020, 06:40:30 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 24, 2020, 06:32:27 PM
On NBA restart plans

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/jun/24/nba-disney-world-return-basketball-coronavirus-florida (http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/jun/24/nba-disney-world-return-basketball-coronavirus-florida)

My coach rankings at the moment

JVG
Miller
Atkinson
Udoka
Thibs
some worthy assistant I’m unfamiliar with

Mike Brown


Kidd





Jax

Not bad at all, Fac

I would love a list of former head coaches who might be available, if anyone has a link

What's Lon Kruger up to?  Still at Oklahoma?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 24, 2020, 09:15:36 PM
Knicks president Leon Rose broke his silence and provided small hints of his vision for the franchise’s direction, the upcoming draft and coaching search.

On the coaching front:
What he said:
“We want to find the right leader that can develop our young players as well as hold everyone accountable and take us from development to becoming a perennial winner.”
“We also want someone we think will be collaborative with the front office. And someone that when you’re in that huddle and looking in that coaches eyes, everyone knows that’s the person that’s driving the ship.”

What I wish he had said instead:
“We feel very good about our current coach but we're doing our due diligence to ensure we have the very best leader out there that can develop our young players as well as hold everyone accountable.  Becoming a perennial winner isn't something that is likely to happen in one or two seasons so it's most important that we develop our players and our culture to create an environment conducive to winning."
"We will work to get that coach the team he wants but he steers the ship and we won't have other voices in the locker room detracting from his vision."

On luring star free agents
What he said:
“What we have to create is an environment where players want to come here,” Rose said. “And the way we do that is on the day-to-day with the players we have, the organization we have and making sure every aspect of that is player-friendly and first class. We’re going to work as hard as we can that this is the place you want to be at. We have the greatest city in the world, we have an iconic arena and we just need to create culture that people are going to want to be part of.”

What I wish he had said instead:
"We've seen this franchise try to take shortcuts for the last 12 years.  Fielding short-term rosters in the hopes of bottoming out and clearing salary quickly to chase free agents.  Instead of trying to lure free agents to come here, we're going to build our organization into something first class.  Players want to win and we're going to work hard to create a winning atmosphere.  We have the greatest fans in the world and an iconic arena that has been home to a quick-fix culture.  We're going to do the hard work and give our fans something they can be proud of, even if it means not making free agency a core strategy.  When we build it, the players that want to win will naturally want to come here and play on our home floor wearing the Knick uniform. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 24, 2020, 10:46:54 PM
If wishes were fishes...

I agree completely.

Kam, if you have the time, would you please take over the Knicks’ front office?

You’d be the best this century at the very least.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 25, 2020, 04:29:50 AM
Quote from: Kam on June 24, 2020, 09:15:36 PM
On the coaching front:
What he said:
“We also want someone we think will be collaborative with the front office. And someone that when you’re in that huddle and looking in that coaches eyes, everyone knows that’s the person that’s driving the ship.”

= We want Our Guy, and an Experienced Leader.

Sounds like they're saying baloney to Malone.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 25, 2020, 10:21:38 AM
Fleming or Delany if we can't get Thibs or Van Gundy

I would consider Udoka.  Mike Brown would send me to the Nets
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 25, 2020, 02:31:27 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on June 25, 2020, 04:29:50 AM

Sounds like they're saying baloney to Malone.



Quote from: bodiddley on June 24, 2020, 05:17:04 PM
I think there's about a 0% chance we re-up the interim coach.
Probably the coaching search has been extended and more big names bandied about to make Malone look even more obscure.



It's says a lot that Mike Miller has morphed into 'Malone'
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 25, 2020, 02:34:28 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 24, 2020, 10:46:54 PM
If wishes were fishes...

I agree completely.

Kam, if you have the time, would you please take over the Knicks’ front office?

You’d be the best this century at the very least.

If Dolan is reading this: I am available to work.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 25, 2020, 04:14:31 PM
I did mean to look up his name to be sure.  Now I recall the initial not THAT Mike Miller commentary.  Anyway, he's tostitos.
Title: Good Doggie
Post by: carlos123 on June 25, 2020, 10:25:51 PM
https://photos.google.com/u/0/album/AF1QipMwirtrLtDKU6Dz0M3qGTHxgdNkIP6M7Qa-qTbk/photo/AF1QipOiqGdix4gjhyU9GOOx0IT2TnANJ4cyxJ-VyV2u (https://photos.google.com/u/0/album/AF1QipMwirtrLtDKU6Dz0M3qGTHxgdNkIP6M7Qa-qTbk/photo/AF1QipOiqGdix4gjhyU9GOOx0IT2TnANJ4cyxJ-VyV2u)
Title: Leon Rose's first transaction
Post by: Kam on June 25, 2020, 10:33:10 PM
https://nypost.com/2020/06/25/knicks-claim-ex-auburn-star-jared-harper-waive-kadeem-allen/ (https://nypost.com/2020/06/25/knicks-claim-ex-auburn-star-jared-harper-waive-kadeem-allen/)

The Knicks claimed former Auburn star and two-way guard Jared Harper on waivers from the Suns and waived two-way guard Kadeem Allen.
Title: Two Guys In China Agree
Post by: lesterluv on June 25, 2020, 11:02:14 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on June 24, 2020, 11:13:07 AM
Quote
Knicks hire CAA's William Wesley to advisory role (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29358210/knicks-hiring-caa-william-wesley-advisory-role)

It was only a matter of time before World Wide Wes worked in the Knick front office.
I don't know Leon Rose or WWWes, so i'll refrain from my usual gloom and doom (which tends to be accurate), but it seems a lot like the usual path of everybody cashes in at the Knicks expense.


Stephon Marbury blasted the move, calling Wesley “world wide sucker,” in a video he posted on Instagram and wrote on Twitter that Wesley is a “kiss a–.”

“When are we really going to try to win in NY,” he tweeted at the Knicks official account. “The people of NY deserve real New York people leading the way for New Yorkers. These fake kiss a$$ blow up fast cats ain’t going to cut the check other than going into BOA to deposit the check. We sick and tired!”

https://nypost.com/2020/06/25/stephon-marbury-blasts-knicks-for-hiring-world-wide-wes/ (https://nypost.com/2020/06/25/stephon-marbury-blasts-knicks-for-hiring-world-wide-wes/)
Title: Re: Leon Rose's first transaction
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 25, 2020, 11:07:27 PM
Quote from: Kam on June 25, 2020, 10:33:10 PM
https://nypost.com/2020/06/25/knicks-claim-ex-auburn-star-jared-harper-waive-kadeem-allen/ (https://nypost.com/2020/06/25/knicks-claim-ex-auburn-star-jared-harper-waive-kadeem-allen/)

The Knicks claimed former Auburn star and two-way guard Jared Harper on waivers from the Suns and waived two-way guard Kadeem Allen.

But damn, man - Allen's better than Smith
(remember that one?)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 26, 2020, 12:54:36 AM
Allen is better than Smith. Waiving Smith means eating his contract while 2 way players can be hot swapped. We’ve got at least 4 lead guards without Allen who need a look.

Glad Rose is Hyping Smith like an intelligent executive does with a guy he’s trying to trade.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on June 26, 2020, 01:43:36 AM
Hope he's a good hype man...never in my life seen a player's insertion into the game create more instant 10 point deficits than with Smith
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 26, 2020, 10:30:56 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 26, 2020, 12:54:36 AM
Allen is better than Smith. Waiving Smith means eating his contract while 2 way players can be hot swapped. We’ve got at least 4 lead guards without Allen who need a look.

Glad Rose is Hyping Smith like an intelligent executive does with a guy he’s trying to trade.

heh

fucking brain dead fan
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 26, 2020, 10:32:35 AM
I am sure Mr Allen will be scooped up quickly by one of these playoff teams
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 26, 2020, 11:19:00 AM
Not likely.  Depends how many players opt out.  How many test out.  And I think teams are allowed up to 17 players (to have replacements already in the bubble), which improves Kadeem's chances.

Jerian Grant just got signed by the Wiz, Trey Burke to DAL, Tyler Johnson to Nets, etc.

I think I mentioned before, Under Armour sponsors the one outdoor park I sometimes play at.  though that didn't stop the courts from adding a NYC subway style turnstyle and making it a pay venue. 

Anyway, they have four player's foot and handprints in between the two courts.  Their main guy Steph Curry; Joel Embiid; Mo Bamba and Dennis Smith Jr.
Kind of drops off quickly. 

Smith Jr. was expected to be an impact player.  UA signed T Ferguson, Josh Jackson, Smith Jr., Will Barton at around the same time.  They also signed Muddy before that ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 26, 2020, 12:46:15 PM
Jerian Grant just got signed by the Wiz, Trey Burke to DAL, Tyler Johnson to Nets, etc.



Cool.  Thanks for the info.

Intersting cases might be guys in their walk year on non playoff clubs.

Couldn't the Knicks just waive a guy like that to give him a chance with the select 22?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on June 26, 2020, 01:27:16 PM
Players approve restart plan:

https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2020/06/nba-finalizes-restart-plan-in-disney-world-with-players-association-games-will-begin-july-30.html (https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2020/06/nba-finalizes-restart-plan-in-disney-world-with-players-association-games-will-begin-july-30.html)

19 players testing positive so far:
https://sports.yahoo.com/report-more-nba-players-tested-201057143.html (https://sports.yahoo.com/report-more-nba-players-tested-201057143.html)

There's still a significant chance more players pull out or the whole thing gets knixxed if Florida continues its covid trajectory. Which would be a shame, as I'm looking forward to some ball.

If that happens, it will solely be the fault of COMPLETE morons like the Donald, DeSantis, & kiid, lol. Controlling this thing not brain surgery in the least...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8463271/Republican-senators-line-tell-Donald-Trump-wear-mask-virus-spikes-red-states.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8463271/Republican-senators-line-tell-Donald-Trump-wear-mask-virus-spikes-red-states.html)
Title: Not Chico
Post by: carlos123 on June 26, 2020, 02:58:14 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on June 26, 2020, 01:27:16 PM
Players approve restart plan:

still a significant chance more players pull out or the whole thing gets knixxed if Florida continues its covid trajectory. Which would be a shame, as I'm looking forward to some ball.

If that happens, it will solely be the fault of morons like the Donald, DeSantis, & kiid, lol. Controlling this thing not brain surgery in the least...


Not Chico’s fault. He wears a mask at all times, don’t you kiid?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 26, 2020, 07:52:49 PM
Rose freed ISO. Bet he joins a playoff team.

We picked up Theo Pinson.

I thought Pinson was taller than 6’5”. Hasn’t hit 3’s in the NBA.
Title: Leon Rose Rap Sheet
Post by: Kam on June 26, 2020, 08:35:03 PM
Out:

Allonzo Trier
Kadeem Allen

In:

Theo Pinson
Jared Harper
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 26, 2020, 08:42:25 PM
graffiti of Milwaukee Bucks superstar Giannis Antetokounmpo in Greece was vandalized with Nazi symbols on the one-year anniversary of the Greek Freak winning NBA MVP. Unknown vandals committed this despicable act by putting the swastika and “SS” signs on Giannis’ right arm on the graffiti and covering his face with a smudge. Unknown vandals committed this despicable act by putting the swastika and “SS” signs on Giannis’ right arm on the graffiti and covering his face with a smudge


Rough.
Title: It wasn't a statue
Post by: Kam on June 26, 2020, 08:54:41 PM
Dislike for Neo-Nazis aside, graffiti is a form of vandalism.  Grafitti covered by other grafitti happens all the time. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 26, 2020, 09:25:03 PM
It sucks that Greece has trumpist parties with idiot adherents just like we do in the USA.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 26, 2020, 09:25:25 PM
Deni Avdjia stepped up in one more game for Maccabi Tel Aviv upon the return of the Israeli League and helped his team log a 103-65 victory over Hapoel Holon. 19-year-old Avdija exited the court with 18 points (7/10 FG) and five rebounds in a little over 21 minutes, leading Maccabi to another victory to keep the team on top of the league’s standings. – via EuroHoops.net


The real deal?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 26, 2020, 09:56:22 PM
Deni can play.

Pinson w team option next year vs. Trier who could be chased w QO.

Title: Nice hair
Post by: carlos123 on June 27, 2020, 08:45:36 PM
(https://media-mbst-pub-ue1.s3.amazonaws.com/creatr-images/2020-06/4dcbf6d0-b7f3-11ea-bcef-aaafe1398d3c)

...Crooked Hillary Clinton in 2016. They are called SUPPRESSION POLLS, and are put out to dampen enthusiasm. Despite 3 ½ years of phony Witch Hunts, we are winning, and will close it out on November 3rd! pic.twitter.com/4IhuLUZjsv (http://pic.twitter.com/4IhuLUZjsv)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 28, 2020, 11:46:42 AM
Predictable -

Noah signs with Clippers through next season
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 28, 2020, 03:36:37 PM
Good move for player and team. Might get Noah a chip and he has good location and teammates. What’s not to like?

On the Knicks joining the NBA’s NIT,

Quote
The Knicks, sources say, have expressed reservations about participating, in part because they have a roster with several soon-to-be free agents who might decline to take part (as many as eight players potentially). If accommodations could be made to help a team like the Knicks fill its roster by way of G League players, however, then that could be an X-factor of sorts. – via Sam Amick @ The Athletic
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 28, 2020, 09:43:51 PM
Good move for player and team. Might get Noah a chip and he has good location and teammates. What’s not to like?



heh
Title: Re: Leon Rose Rap Sheet
Post by: bodiddley on June 29, 2020, 08:25:28 AM
Quote from: Kam on June 26, 2020, 08:35:03 PM
Out:
Allonzo Trier
Kadeem Allen

In:
Theo Pinson
Jared Harper

Not really a fan of just dumping Trier like that.
But he hadn't expanded his game, and his defense was infuriating at times.
I could see him a short-minute bench microwave for some stable team.

I had been saying for a long time that the Knix needed to choose between Trier/Dot, and that Dot looked better since he plays some D and can play the 3 some.  Just a more steady player.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 29, 2020, 08:28:53 AM
Quote
Leon Rose touts Dennis Smith Jr. as having “special talent.” Says RJ Barrett and Mitchell Robinson are two proven bedrock pieces. Says he still thinks Kevin Knox is “scratching the surface.”

Well, off-season quotes.  When everyone is in the best shape of their lives and training hard, etc. 

RJB and Mitch are somewhat raw neophytes who have shown some potential.  Hopefully both can become long-term starters.

Knox might be drowning.
Jr. Smith needs hype for many reasons.

But for all are losing seasons and high draft picks, that's not much to hang your hat on.  Did Rose mention Franc?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 29, 2020, 10:34:46 AM
“Deni is on the right track. He works hard. He’s trying to keep himself focused on the game of basketball. He’s always in the gym working. He has a good advantage because he gets a chance to watch guys who are pros train with him. With myself, Quincy Acy, Omri Casspi, we all played in the NBA. He gots to learn from us which is good for him.”




-  Amare


If it is Anthony vs Avdija on draft night - tough call for me.


Updated mock:

https://www.nbadraft.net/nba-mock-drafts/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 29, 2020, 11:51:35 AM
Trier was a RFA and waiving him saved the Knicks around ~5mil in cap space.  Pinson eats into that cap room but he has a team option.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 29, 2020, 12:42:33 PM
2-ways count against the cap?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 29, 2020, 01:10:48 PM
Theo is a full contract we picked up off waivers. Our two ways are Wooten and the N8 sized guy from Auburn.

Rose said in the right situation Frank could really be something. Much fainter praise than he had for Dennis.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 29, 2020, 01:14:58 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 29, 2020, 12:42:33 PM
2-ways count against the cap?

No.  Only if given a guaranteed spot like Trier eventually received. 
This move seems mostly driven by cap space, with a side of team chemistry.   
Talent went out the door but we have a bit of a logjam in the backcourt and Pinson is a happy bench camper.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 29, 2020, 01:17:57 PM
Ball, Hayes, and Edwards are the top three perimeter guys with Haliburton close I can agree with that.

I think Deni and Okongwu are the top two in the frontcourt with Wiseman and Toppin trailing due to defensive footwork and discipline concerns outweighing more polish on their jumpers.

Vassell and Nova’s Bey round out my top ten.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 29, 2020, 01:40:39 PM
Avdija seems a 3 to me, not a 4

Ichiuwa is the 4 you should look at
Title: For What It's Worth
Post by: chipstern on June 29, 2020, 03:33:09 PM
Haliburton
Title: Nicknames
Post by: Kam on June 29, 2020, 04:11:20 PM
We lost a great knickname on IsoZo and Kadeem the Dream. 

So we need some nicknames for our new players.

I'm going with Jarper and Theophilus.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 29, 2020, 06:09:30 PM
Looks like my job is safe ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 29, 2020, 06:37:27 PM
Spencer Dinwiddie tests positive for COVID-19

Brooklyn Nets guard Spencer Dinwiddie told The Athletic he has tested positive for coronavirus, creating doubt over his status for the NBA restart. “Over the past few months, I have been diligent about protecting myself and others from COVID-19 by following all designated protocol and quarantining,” Dinwiddie told The Athletic. –
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 29, 2020, 07:42:44 PM
I guess that's why the Nets picked up Tyler Johnson ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 30, 2020, 04:12:04 AM
DeAndre Jordan also not going to orlando.  Tested positive.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 30, 2020, 04:30:28 AM
I'll try to generate some enthusiasm for the Bubble play.
But the Knix aren't invited, Chinese won't televise, while some players are going to miss the games due to the virus.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 30, 2020, 09:35:23 AM
Easy call for me

Hoops over baseball every night.

Already have my parlay ready for the openers

LA Lakers  - even -  vs  LA Clippers
New Orleans    -1   vs   Utah

Maybe I will pick all the games, keep a running tally at 100 bucks a pop.  I invite everyone to join in
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 30, 2020, 11:43:55 AM
https://twitter.com/DailyKnicksFS/status/1277748517239508992

Trade Knox, draft Avdija
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 30, 2020, 11:50:33 AM
Knox could be a sweetener, but you're not getting much trading him alone.

I'd trade Avdija and Knox to move up for Ball.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 30, 2020, 07:20:10 PM
Yeah - debating what one of our guys is worth is not my aim

This is about the open rotation slot and production.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 30, 2020, 09:34:06 PM
Cameron Payne to Phoenix



Shams Charania: Free agent guard Cameron Payne has agreed to a two-year deal with the Phoenix Suns, league sources tell @The Athletic @Stadium. – via Twitter ShamsCharania
 Top Rumors,
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 01, 2020, 10:30:56 AM
Fultz, who is averaging 12.1 points and 5.2 assists this season, did not have access to the Magic’s practice facility, so he could not treat his various shoulder and knee ailments that had bothered him in recent seasons. Even though Fultz already plays in Orlando, where the NBA will host its resumed season, the Magic do not have any geographical advantage. “At first, I thought we were going to be able to stay at home so I was a little excited. But then I realized we were going to have stay in the bubble, too,” Fultz said. “I understand the reasons why. It’s something I’m consciously thinking about. But I think about other teams that have to fly in their state and where they are playing at to come to Orlando. It is something that none of us have been used to or ready for. I’ve been thinking about it like it’ll be an AAU tournament.” – via Mark Medina @ USA Today Sports



Smart kid.

And certainly one to watch come 7/29
Title: scratch 60, I meant to say 40
Post by: lesterluv on July 02, 2020, 03:20:52 PM
LMFAO

https://www.thedailybeast.com/herman-cain-hospitalized-with-covid-19-days-after-attending-trumps-tulsa-rally (https://www.thedailybeast.com/herman-cain-hospitalized-with-covid-19-days-after-attending-trumps-tulsa-rally)

Meanwhile, environment for the restart continues to be......er.....shakey.https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-florida/florida-shatters-records-with-over-10000-new-covid-19-cases-in-single-day-idUSKBN243299 (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-florida/florida-shatters-records-with-over-10000-new-covid-19-cases-in-single-day-idUSKBN243299)
Title: Re: scratch 60, I meant to say 40
Post by: chipstern on July 02, 2020, 05:51:57 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on July 02, 2020, 03:20:52 PM
LMFAO

https://www.thedailybeast.com/herman-cain-hospitalized-with-covid-19-days-after-attending-trumps-tulsa-rally (https://www.thedailybeast.com/herman-cain-hospitalized-with-covid-19-days-after-attending-trumps-tulsa-rally)

Meanwhile, environment for the restart continues to be......er.....shakey.https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-florida/florida-shatters-records-with-over-10000-new-covid-19-cases-in-single-day-idUSKBN243299 (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-florida/florida-shatters-records-with-over-10000-new-covid-19-cases-in-single-day-idUSKBN243299)

Dawg

Leave us not descend to the gutter with Trumpsters who routinely scoff at the suffering of others. 

Herman Cain? 

I truly feel sad for the brother. While calling attention to the irony is fair game, leave us not behave like Trumpsters and move beyond that into the land of wishing ill on others.

Want to linger on some irony?  Try that the terror of a COVID contagion should bring down a prominent black supporter of Mister Trump, as he stood shoulder to shoulder with The Lone Deranger midst the Greenwood Ghosts of the fallen and the martyred of the Black Wall Street Pogrom that took place in Tulsa 99 years ago.

As for Florida as a site for a resuscitated NBA season? 

That is a fucking pipe dream. 

Title: NBA NIT
Post by: Kam on July 02, 2020, 07:39:38 PM
Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn

The NBA is closing in on signing off on a second “bubble” in Chicago for the eight teams that were not invited to play in Orlando, enabling mini-training camps and subsequent games against other clubs with a target date of September, sources tell ESPN’s Jackie MacMullan.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 03, 2020, 09:35:03 AM
 Knicks would be looking to add plenty of names if that is a go.
Title: Re: scratch 60, I meant to say 40
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 03, 2020, 09:36:21 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on July 02, 2020, 03:20:52 PM
LMFAO

https://www.thedailybeast.com/herman-cain-hospitalized-with-covid-19-days-after-attending-trumps-tulsa-rally (https://www.thedailybeast.com/herman-cain-hospitalized-with-covid-19-days-after-attending-trumps-tulsa-rally)



Fuck you.
Title: Re: scratch 60, I meant to say 40
Post by: bodiddley on July 03, 2020, 10:50:24 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on July 02, 2020, 03:20:52 PM
LMFAO
https://www.thedailybeast.com/herman-cain-hospitalized-with-covid-19-days-after-attending-trumps-tulsa-rally (https://www.thedailybeast.com/herman-cain-hospitalized-with-covid-19-days-after-attending-trumps-tulsa-rally)

Kid had a recent epiphany:

Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 02, 2020, 10:45:18 AM
STUPIDITY is spreading this virus

The Trump indoor political rally certainly qualifies.

Quote
“I realize people will speculate about the Tulsa rally, but Herman did a lot of traveling the past week, including to Arizona where cases are spiking,” Dan Calabrese, who has been editor of HermanCain.com, wrote on the website. “I don’t think there’s any way to trace this to the one specific contact that caused him to be infected. We’ll never know.”

In other words, Cain has been careless and irresponsible all over the country, so you can't ascribe it to just one event for certain (despite it being by far the largest gathering he was at without precautions and the time frame fits perfectly).
Title: Re: scratch 60, I meant to say 40
Post by: lesterluv on July 03, 2020, 01:07:46 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 03, 2020, 09:36:21 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on July 02, 2020, 03:20:52 PM
LMFAO

https://www.thedailybeast.com/herman-cain-hospitalized-with-covid-19-days-after-attending-trumps-tulsa-rally (https://www.thedailybeast.com/herman-cain-hospitalized-with-covid-19-days-after-attending-trumps-tulsa-rally)



Fuck you.

LMFAO

*** You're right, Chip, you're right, but this is one non-stop rolling grand clusterfuck of a death tour. Someone has to make the concert posters. Couldn't make this sh&^% up if you tried:


"Secret Service agents preparing for Pence Arizona trip contracted coronavirus
 https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/secret-service-agents-preparing-for-pence-arizona-trip-contracted-coronavirus/2020/07/02/8029280c-bc97-11ea-bdaf-a129f921026f_story.html?itid=mr_politics_1 (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/secret-service-agents-preparing-for-pence-arizona-trip-contracted-coronavirus/2020/07/02/8029280c-bc97-11ea-bdaf-a129f921026f_story.html?itid=mr_politics_1)


The heightened risk of agents getting sick while they try to prepare for events for Trump and Pence in cities far from Washington has begun to frazzle agents and their families, according to several people who have spoken to agents.
Title: Not 60, not 40...I meant 20
Post by: lesterluv on July 03, 2020, 01:20:08 PM
I mean the Trump "campaign tour" is responsible for so many deaths at this point you probably can't calculate it. Not just the low-brow low-IQ-having racist idiots like kiid, who actually attend these things, and those who have been inspired by them to act irresponsibly in the surge states — I really can't cry for that bunch— but their moms, and cousins and the bus drivers who take 'em around and the waiters & waitresses who serve 'em and catch it, just don't deserve it.

This fat boy is really carving out a special place in the history books for himself. Legend.


••• South Dakota apparently just can't wait to kill its own and join the crew, Gov. Noem bringing the patented kiid-buutt-stupiditytm

https://www.npr.org/2020/07/01/886317524/mount-rushmore-fireworks-revival-to-feature-trump-but-no-social-distancing (https://www.npr.org/2020/07/01/886317524/mount-rushmore-fireworks-revival-to-feature-trump-but-no-social-distancing)

Beyond irresponsible: https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/07/03/mount-rushmore-trump-coronavirus-doctor-sot-ip-vpx.cnn/video/playlists/this-week-in-politics/ (https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/07/03/mount-rushmore-trump-coronavirus-doctor-sot-ip-vpx.cnn/video/playlists/this-week-in-politics/)

meanwhile Oladipo opts out of Orlando... reinjury worries
https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/29406090/what-losing-victor-oladipo-means-pacers-nba-playoffs (https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/29406090/what-losing-victor-oladipo-means-pacers-nba-playoffs)

and the U.S. has become global pariah and laughingstock, the New York  Knicks of Nations

England unlocks travel with 59 countries -- but not the US

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/england-travel-corridor-intl-scli-gbr/index.html (https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/england-travel-corridor-intl-scli-gbr/index.html)

Title: Not Chico
Post by: carlos123 on July 03, 2020, 05:33:31 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on July 03, 2020, 01:20:08 PM
I mean the Trump "campaign tour" is responsible for so many deaths at this point you probably can't calculate it. Not just the low-brow low-IQ-having racist idiots like kiid, who actually attend these things, and those who have been inspired by them to act irresponsibly in the surge states — I really can't cry for that bunch— but their moms, and cousins and the bus drivers who take 'em around and the waiters & waitresses who serve 'em and catch it, just don't deserve it.

This fat boy is really carving out a special place in the history books for himself. Legend.

I don’t think Chico went to Tulsa, did you kiddo?

If he did, he’d probably had the trump virus by now.

But maybe he’s going to Mount Rushmore.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on July 03, 2020, 11:05:22 PM
The Trump virus

Good one Carlos
Title: yeah, you guessed it...went to Tulsa
Post by: lesterluv on July 03, 2020, 11:56:44 PM
Couldn't quite make the Rushmore  Fireworks, sadly. Is now DRIVING BACK from S.D. with Donald Jr. :)

Kimberly Guilfoyle, Top Fund-Raising Official for Trump Campaign, Tests Positive for Coronavirus She is the third person in proximity of President Trump known to have contracted the virus.


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/03/us/politics/kimberly-guilfoyle-trump-campaign-coronavirus.html?smid=em-share (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/03/us/politics/kimberly-guilfoyle-trump-campaign-coronavirus.html?smid=em-share)

*** Did I say 10? Must have meant 5....

And Mexico just closed the border with us to keep the virus out...they want a bigger wall, lmfao...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 05, 2020, 10:55:10 AM
THE BASKETBALL TOURNAMENT (TBT) begins today

2 and 4 PM (ESPN)

7 and 9 PM (ESPN2)

twitter -   @thetournament

https://twitter.com/thetournament/status/1279656244182241281?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1279656244182241281%7Ctwgr%5E&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fbleacherreport.com%2Farticles%2F2898904-the-basketball-tournament-2020-july-5-odds-tv-schedule-live-stream-rosters
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on July 05, 2020, 12:35:25 PM
It's a good test run for the NBA bubble.

So they're pulling teams as players test positive. 4 pulled so far — all of the replacement teams are now used up.

The Basketball Tournament has removed a third team in three days -- and the fourth team overall -- from the winner-take-all $1 million tournament that starts Saturday, because of a positive coronavirus test.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/29405973/replacement-team-playing-jimmy-v-tbt-testing-positive-coronavirus (https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/29405973/replacement-team-playing-jimmy-v-tbt-testing-positive-coronavirus)

meanwhile down Florida:
https://news.yahoo.com/floridas-coronavirus-cases-break-record-201227677.html (https://news.yahoo.com/floridas-coronavirus-cases-break-record-201227677.html)
 (https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/florida-again-adds-more-than-10000-new-cases-in-single-day-pushing-total-past-200k/2257976/)

https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/florida-again-adds-more-than-10000-new-cases-in-single-day-pushing-total-past-200k/2257976/ (https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/florida-again-adds-more-than-10000-new-cases-in-single-day-pushing-total-past-200k/2257976/)

***If NBA ends up getting scrubbed, still very much possible, two men, Donald & DeSantis, will have personally cost NBA players & owners hundreds of millions....more importantly, the dawg will be pissed.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 05, 2020, 03:15:21 PM
http://mobile.twitter.com/BleacherReport/status/1279524669691793408?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1279524669691793408%7Ctwgr%5E&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fbleacherreport.com%2F (http://mobile.twitter.com/BleacherReport/status/1279524669691793408?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1279524669691793408%7Ctwgr%5E&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fbleacherreport.com%2F)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on July 06, 2020, 10:19:52 AM
The Kings become the 7th of the 22 teams to shut down their practice facilities pre-Orlando on account of the RONA.

https://sports.yahoo.com/sacramento-kings-become-latest-team-065541621.html (https://sports.yahoo.com/sacramento-kings-become-latest-team-065541621.html)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on July 06, 2020, 12:07:23 PM
And...a fifth team pulled from The Basketball Tournament. No more replacement teams left so their opponent gets a move-on pass...wonder if that's how they'll do it in Orlando.

The matchup was originally scheduled to be the second half of a doubleheader, but Eberlein Drive was removed from the tournament Sunday after a positive COVID-19 test. That pushed Brotherly Love into the quarterfinals.

https://www.espn.co.uk/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/29415812/tbt-team-eberlein-drive-tournament-positive-test  (https://www.espn.co.uk/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/29415812/tbt-team-eberlein-drive-tournament-positive-test)

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2898974-the-basketball-tournament-2020-july-6-odds-tv-schedule-live-stream-rosters (https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2898974-the-basketball-tournament-2020-july-6-odds-tv-schedule-live-stream-rosters)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 06, 2020, 12:10:51 PM
Jimmer Fredette a free agent

Roster adjustments are underway at Panathinaikos OPAP. The new era recently officially launched will not include Jimmer Fredette, confirmed newly appointed team president Takis Triantopoulos on Friday’s press conference about the new season. “We don’t have anything new about him,” he mentioned referring to the status of the 31-year-old American guard, “He is informed that he is free to go, his agent also knows this and he is on the market for a new team. We are waiting for any new development.”
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 06, 2020, 01:52:38 PM
Has he gotten any good at basketball?

If not, who cares?
Title: Who cares?
Post by: carlos123 on July 06, 2020, 02:33:17 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 06, 2020, 01:52:38 PM
Has he gotten any good at basketball?

If not, who cares?

Chico cares.

One of the loves of his life.
Title: LaMelo drops to the Knicks at six
Post by: Kam on July 06, 2020, 02:54:49 PM
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2020-nba-mock-draft-james-wiseman-goes-no-1-to-warriors-lamelo-ball-drops-to-knicks-at-no-6/live/ (https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2020-nba-mock-draft-james-wiseman-goes-no-1-to-warriors-lamelo-ball-drops-to-knicks-at-no-6/live/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 06, 2020, 08:11:29 PM
LOL

Hawks draft another center.  Right.
Title: poetic justice
Post by: lesterluv on July 07, 2020, 11:34:40 AM
LMFAO

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/07/americas/brazil-bolsonaro-positive-coronavirus-intl/index.html (https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/07/americas/brazil-bolsonaro-positive-coronavirus-intl/index.html)

some 65,000+ deaths on his watch, real justice will only be served when he croaks.

*** remember when #filmyourhospital was a thing for kiid's crew?


https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/California-hospitals-transfer-COVID-patients-15389470.php (https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/California-hospitals-transfer-COVID-patients-15389470.php)

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-texas-hospitals-capacity-surge-cases/ (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-texas-hospitals-capacity-surge-cases/)

https://tucson.com/news/local/covid-19-patients-in-tucson-being-transferred-to-phoenix-out-of-state/article_9eb4cfb1-a1cb-5466-82b3-e23829be35ff.html (https://tucson.com/news/local/covid-19-patients-in-tucson-being-transferred-to-phoenix-out-of-state/article_9eb4cfb1-a1cb-5466-82b3-e23829be35ff.html)

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2020/07/07/more-than-40-hospital-icus-in-florida-have-hit-maximum-capacity-with-zero-beds-available/#113924113e70 (https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2020/07/07/more-than-40-hospital-icus-in-florida-have-hit-maximum-capacity-with-zero-beds-available/#113924113e70)


Phoenix now in a "crisis situation"
https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/07/06/887925764/phoenix-mayor-on-citys-efforts-to-manage-coronavirus-outbreak (https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/07/06/887925764/phoenix-mayor-on-citys-efforts-to-manage-coronavirus-outbreak)


LMFAO x 25

As the Donald Deathtour moves on to New Hampshire, the Gov sez that's great, have fun, but ... er...I think I have bowling that night:

Sununu also said that while he plans to greet the President at some point during his visit to the state, it was unlikely he'd attend Saturday's rally in person, citing health concerns.
"I'm going to go and greet the President as the governor," he said. "I will not be in the crowd of thousands of people, I'm not going to put myself in the middle of a crowd of thousands of people, if that's your question specifically.
Title: The other sports league trying to restart in an Orlando Bubble
Post by: lesterluv on July 07, 2020, 10:46:51 PM
The MLS. Began, or tried to begin today. Bumpy start to say the least:


LAKE BUENA VISTA, Fla. — MLS’s efforts to restart its season amid a pandemic experienced another setback when Nashville SC’s first match was postponed because of a team outbreak, and the league said it would “continue to evaluate” the expansion squad’s participation in the troubled summer tournament.
Nashville’s problems came a day after FC Dallas was forced out of the MLS is Back Tournament because 10 players and one staff member had tested positive for the novel coronavirus.
The month-long competition is scheduled to start Wednesday night at the ESPN Wide World of Sports Complex with Orlando City playing Inter Miami, the league’s other expansion club. Nashville was supposed to play the late-night match against the Chicago Fire. No new date was announced.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on July 08, 2020, 12:38:25 AM
https://awfulannouncing.com/nba/stephen-jackson-defends-desean-jackson-fake-hitler-quote.html (https://awfulannouncing.com/nba/stephen-jackson-defends-desean-jackson-fake-hitler-quote.html)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 08, 2020, 05:49:33 PM
LaMelo Ball is an 18-year-old guard from Chino Hills, California, who averaged 17 points, 7.6 rebounds, and 6.8 assists for Illawarra in the National Basketball League in Australia. He is expected to be selected among the top-five picks in the upcoming NBA Draft. NBADraft.net currently has him projected at No. 3.

NBA-Specific Skills

If there is one thing the Ball brothers have in common, it’s that they really know how to pass.

For all of the out-of-their-control narcissism and boasting that happens as a result of their father’s P.T. Barnum-inspired public relations efforts, Lonzo and LaMelo both play a fabulous, free-flowing style where dynamic hit-aheads and extra passes are keys to their basketball aesthetic.

Ball’s game is ideally suited for today’s pace-and-space era. At 6-7 (and still growing), he is big enough to snatch rebounds in traffic and whirl ahead as his own one-man fast break or sling frozen-rope outlet passes to opportunistic teammates. The comparisons with his brother are inevitable, but perhaps an even more accurate comparison would be with a pre-injury Shaun Livingston, whose rangy physical dimensions and pass-first approach led to him being selected No. 4 overall in 2004.

Ball has also shown an advanced ability to create his own offense. He is equally adept with either hand and he keeps defenders off balance with an array of herky-jerky shoulder fakes and in-and-out dribbles. For a player who had to carry the load on nearly every offensive possession for a lousy team, Ball posted a tremendous assist-to-turnover ratio (6.8/2.5).

His anticipatory instincts on offense also translate to the other side of the ball, where he uses his length and intellect to disrupt passing lanes and switch across multiple positions.

Ball is the rare kind of player who can impact games in a variety of ways, even when his shot isn’t falling. He doesn’t need to lead his team in scoring in order to have a positive impact.

On a scale from 1-10, Ball’s passing and versatility rate at a 9



https://www.nbadraft.net/situational-analysis-lamelo-ball/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on July 08, 2020, 06:29:16 PM
Got defensive concerns, but surely wouldn't mind if he dropped into our lap.

Meanwhile: The Tulsa DeathTour Aftermath Report

The city of Tulsa is experiencing a surge in coronavirus cases, a little over 2 weeks after President Donald Trump held a campaign rally in an indoor arena there.

Dr. Bruce Dart, Executive Director of the Tulsa Health Department, said in a press conference on Wednesday there are high numbers being reported this week, with nearly 500 new cases in two days and trends are showing that those numbers will increase.
There had been a 20% decline in new Covid-19 cases the week of June 28 through July 4.
The Tulsa Health Department reported 266 new cases on Wednesday, bringing the total number in the county to 4,571. There are 17,894 cases in Oklahoma and 452 deaths, according to Johns Hopkins University's tally of cases in the United States.
When asked if the cases in Tulsa are going up due to the rally on June 20, Dart said that there were several large events a little over two weeks ago.
"I guess we just connect the dots," Dart said.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 08, 2020, 08:11:04 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on July 08, 2020, 06:29:16 PM
Got defensive concerns, but surely wouldn't mind if he dropped into our lap.

Meanwhile: The Tulsa DeathTour Aftermath Report

The city of Tulsa is experiencing a surge in coronavirus cases, a little over 2 weeks after President Donald Trump held a campaign rally in an indoor arena there.

Dr. Bruce Dart, Executive Director of the Tulsa Health Department, said in a press conference on Wednesday there are high numbers being reported this week, with nearly 500 new cases in two days and trends are showing that those numbers will increase.
There had been a 20% decline in new Covid-19 cases the week of June 28 through July 4.
The Tulsa Health Department reported 266 new cases on Wednesday, bringing the total number in the county to 4,571. There are 17,894 cases in Oklahoma and 452 deaths, according to Johns Hopkins University's tally of cases in the United States.
When asked if the cases in Tulsa are going up due to the rally on June 20, Dart said that there were several large events a little over two weeks ago.
"I guess we just connect the dots," Dart said.

Connect the dots?

INFECT THE Dolts
Title: You can buy someone a personalized video greeting from a Knick
Post by: Kam on July 08, 2020, 08:46:25 PM
https://www.cameo.com/browse/athletes/basketball/new-york-knicks (https://www.cameo.com/browse/athletes/basketball/new-york-knicks)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on July 08, 2020, 09:43:59 PM
dolts indeed....and Kam, that is too awesome. You can get Eddy Curry or Mike Sweetney for just thirty bucks! John Starks will set you back a full bill.

If I can afford it, I might send one of these to Chip on his birthday: https://www.cameo.com/opr_cameo (https://www.cameo.com/opr_cameo)

And I'm gonna send you one of these 4 sure :). https://d3el26csp1xekx.cloudfront.net/v/wm-_XKS-8dR0.mp4 (https://d3el26csp1xekx.cloudfront.net/v/wm-_XKS-8dR0.mp4)


**** Donald Deathtour Update: Fat Boy's second stop surely was a key play, today Arizona surpasses New York's all-time peak in cases per capita. Buh-buh-booooooyah.

https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/epidemiologist-speaks-out-as-arizona-surpasses-new-yorks-all-time-peak-in-daily-covid-19-cases-per-capita (https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/epidemiologist-speaks-out-as-arizona-surpasses-new-yorks-all-time-peak-in-daily-covid-19-cases-per-capita)

Great work Donald!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on July 08, 2020, 11:25:30 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on July 08, 2020, 09:43:59 PM

And I'm gonna send you one of these 4 sure :). https://d3el26csp1xekx.cloudfront.net/v/wm-_XKS-8dR0.mp4 (https://d3el26csp1xekx.cloudfront.net/v/wm-_XKS-8dR0.mp4)


Yes! Good value there.  Willy Hernangomez costs twice as much.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on July 09, 2020, 12:56:48 PM
some other great values: Rod Strickland at $35 and Bruce Bowen for the same price! (defense always devalued)

Compared to those, Renaldo Balkman's $30 tag seems almost obscene...


*** meanwhile, in Jacksonville, where many people who share kiid's IQ had hoped to participate in the final stop on the Donald's Summer DeathTour, so much is going on:

The Fed names Jacksonville as a new hotspot opening surge testing locations.
https://news.wjct.org/post/jacksonville-named-covid-19-hotspot-us-health-department (https://news.wjct.org/post/jacksonville-named-covid-19-hotspot-us-health-department)

The Mayor responsible for bringing the convention to Jacksonville goes into quarantine
https://www.firstcoastnews.com/article/news/politics/rnc/jacksonville-florida-mayor-responsible-for-bringing-rnc-to-city-self-quarantining/77-00a1e4bc-2bd4-4083-a463-05d7ef0499f6 (https://www.firstcoastnews.com/article/news/politics/rnc/jacksonville-florida-mayor-responsible-for-bringing-rnc-to-city-self-quarantining/77-00a1e4bc-2bd4-4083-a463-05d7ef0499f6)

Another Republican Senator says he has...er...a previously planned poker night
https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/506568-sixth-gop-senator-unlikely-to-attend-republican-convention (https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/506568-sixth-gop-senator-unlikely-to-attend-republican-convention)

"Well, I have some things to do in Kansas that I got to do and unfortunately I didn't know what was canceled and what was not and whatever, and so I will probably not be," Roberts said when asked if he was going to the convention.


ROFL


And Moscow Mitch says the whole thing might not even happen! Say it's not so!
https://nypost.com/2020/07/09/mitch-mcconnell-republican-national-convention-may-not-happen/ (https://nypost.com/2020/07/09/mitch-mcconnell-republican-national-convention-may-not-happen/)
Title: The Barbers of the Bubble
Post by: lesterluv on July 10, 2020, 10:05:27 AM
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29431358/how-nba-picked-barbers-bubble (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29431358/how-nba-picked-barbers-bubble)

Normally, Rodriguez doesn't let calls interrupt his work, but he knew this one was different. So he reached for his phone, cradled it between his shoulder and ear and prepared to resume the shave.

It only took a moment for Rodriguez to know it was the news he had been awaiting: He would be one of six barbers heading inside the NBA's bubble at the Walt Disney World Resort in Orlando, Florida. For a period that will last at least four weeks and stretch possibly as long as three and a half months, Rodriguez will be among a select few tasked with cutting the hair of the more than 300 players from 22 NBA teams.

Rodriguez immediately bolted upright and started shouting: "They picked me to be a part of the NBA bubble!" Cheers rang out from fellow barbers. His client, clad with shaving cream and lying reclined in the barber's chair, congratulated him as well.
Title: Meanwhile, it's getting harder & harder to find
Post by: lesterluv on July 10, 2020, 01:44:00 PM
.... people with kiid's IQ who want to stand shoulder-to-shoulder and shout Mexicans are rapists. Make America Great while getting virus-laden spittle all over each other.

Next stop on the death tour, cancelled on account of "weather"....

Current weather forecasts for Portsmouth indicate that the rain is supposed to stop there around noon on Saturday; the rally was scheduled for 8 p.m.

rofl

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/10/us/politics/trump-nh-rally-postponed.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/10/us/politics/trump-nh-rally-postponed.html)

c'mon man...the show's gotta go on, doesn't it?

Now where does this all leave Republican Gov. Sununu who, if you remember, couldn't make this rally because of his Pep Boys appointment. Will he be free for a rescheduled rally? I'm betting something else will come up, if in fact, they bother to reschedule it at all.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 10, 2020, 02:41:58 PM
Les, you can join us in the Trump Admin thread (http://forums.escapefromelba.com/index.php?board=40.0)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on July 10, 2020, 03:07:55 PM
Thanks, I never even considered a different thread and may just do that!

*** though I do believe all that I'm posting is 100% pertinent to the Knicks/NBA, since the very existence of the team and the sport is now completely intertwined with and threatened by the actions of one man with kiid's IQ.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 10, 2020, 04:30:44 PM
I went to the Trump thread for the Impeachment and stayed for the Virus.
Title: NO!!!
Post by: carlos123 on July 10, 2020, 04:59:57 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on July 10, 2020, 03:07:55 PM
Thanks, I never even considered a different thread and may just do that!

*** though I do believe all that I'm posting is 100% pertinent to the Knicks/NBA, since the very existence of the team and the sport is now completely intertwined with and threatened by the actions of one man with kiid's IQ.

Les, you stay here, ya hear me?

You my doggie, don’t go anywhere else, PLEASE!!!

I love your posts and I don’t plan to migrate just because BoZ tells us to. If he don’t like us he can put us (or me) on IGNORE 🤫
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 10, 2020, 05:18:26 PM
It’s 2020. There’s no shame anymore in going more than one way.

Coaching interviews are coming hot & heavy.
Title: Tu quoque Fac mi?
Post by: carlos123 on July 10, 2020, 10:30:54 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 10, 2020, 05:18:26 PM
It’s 2020. There’s no shame anymore in going more than one way.

Coaching interviews are coming hot & heavy.

You too, Fac?

I hear you, but I want my doggie here.

And I love your posts too, so PLEASE keep them all here. I ain't going to other forums.

Thank you.

Coaching interviews: Just keep Miller! If it ain't broke don't fix it, damm.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on July 10, 2020, 11:17:29 PM
It's best to keep this a Knicks forum and leave the politics out of it.
Title: Kamster the Hamster
Post by: carlos123 on July 11, 2020, 01:12:33 AM
Quote from: Kam on July 10, 2020, 11:17:29 PM
It's best to keep this a Knicks forum and leave the politics out of it.

F. you Kamster.
I ain’t going anywhere.
PS. Enes says hello.
PPS. Recep says to lay low for now.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 11, 2020, 06:00:46 AM
It's just a small organizational matter.
But I assume some folks here would prefer not to have political posts in the Knix forum.  And Les would get some responses and engagement to his political posts if they were posted in Trumpville. 

Really we have maybe 10 people who post in the Trump Admin thread and could use more participation.  Facil is a regular there, with quite scathing takedowns.  Kam pops in now and then.  Bankshot is a regular there and pops in here now and then for Hoops.  Kiid is a Trumpeter and would post more if Trump was doing anything remotely right.  Josh who maintains this site provides a lot of useful links and interesting memes -- the kind of stuff I'd miss on my own.  Others have their own perspectives.

I find the links and charts and graphics very useful.  Along with the ideas I haven't considered.  They got me checking out political cartoons again. (https://theweek.com/cartoons)  Really we could use smarter conservatives, so if Les wants to come on board and take up the opposition side and go all devil's advocate, that'd be really useful ...

(https://images.theweek.com/sites/default/files/cbr070820dapr.jpg.webp?resize=900x900)

So, does that really belong here?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on July 11, 2020, 09:31:38 AM
So am gonna hop over there, per Bo & check it out, sound interesting.
And I’m gonna dial it back here, a bit, but no worries Carlos, I’m not going to stop.
Because Kam is completely wrong.

Right now, you can’t leave the politics out even if you wanted to.
There is no Knicks/NBA in isolation from Virus / BLM / Trump /DeSantis. Zero. Zip. Nada.
They matter more to the activities of the sport than Silver or Dolan or James.

Just nonsense to say there should be some kind of barrier right now.

While it’s true that the NBA has a likely ally in Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis, you never quite know where the political winds might shift. A couple of phone calls shuts the NBA’s business down, as so many businesses have been shut down around the country. I had Henry Abbott of TrueHoop on my podcast and he made a point that few others have made: Silver has been fairly politically neutral of late, despite his reputation as the progressive commissioner. The theory Abbott espoused was that this has something to do with the NBA needing allies in government to make this bubble a reality. Many NBA players (and fans) might hate President Donald Trump, but Silver can’t afford to be seen as a Trump enemy right now. As mentioned before, the federal government has the power to undermine the NBA’s operation. – via Ethan Strauss @ The Athletic

Hoping we’ll have more actual hoops to talk about soon. I'm actually really excited. I think it could be really fun — even as I'm skeptical as hell it goes off without a hitch in DeSanta's Viral Workshop.

**** of course, any time our forum’s mental midget peckerwood troll opens up his rancid piehole with the *&$%, I’ll continue to pound him back into oblivion. Just too EZ, fun, and necessary. Mama don't play. It's 2020 and if you come at me with tired racist bullshit I'm going to beat the living fuck out of you.

***** or try to claim antifa behind the protests in NYC, lol, lol, lol, what a hopeless twat, lol, lol, lol

****** and anyway, once a forum gets down to a minimal # of people & posters & posts, it is in real jeopardy of simply disappearing, so as far as I'm concerned, talk about your pets, your kids, or your covid hairstyles to mix it up, I won't mind. Here's what I'm currently sporting:

(https://sadanduseless.b-cdn.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/funny-dog-grooming18.jpg)

Meanwhile, down in bubble land, even DeSantis who has been working his slimy ass off to conceal the reality of his deadly fiasco, can't hide this:

Dozens of Florida hospitals max out of ICU capacity amid surge in COVID-19 cases


https://thehill.com/homenews/coronavirus-report/506881-dozens-of-florida-hospitals-max-out-of-icu-capacity-amid-surge-in (https://thehill.com/homenews/coronavirus-report/506881-dozens-of-florida-hospitals-max-out-of-icu-capacity-amid-surge-in)


As hospitals fill up with ever-growing numbers of COVID-19 patients, officials are readying plans designed to avoid the nightmarish crowding that marked New York hospitals at the height of that city’s epidemic.

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/coronavirus/fl-ne-coronavirus-florida-hospitals-plan-20200711-wn6bh23o4vdcpczpiogulzwupq-story.html (https://www.sun-sentinel.com/coronavirus/fl-ne-coronavirus-florida-hospitals-plan-20200711-wn6bh23o4vdcpczpiogulzwupq-story.html)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 11, 2020, 02:03:58 PM
I think the bubble restart is a risky proposition that could endanger next season.
I'd pack in the year and put all my effort in to a full season next year (Fall or Winter).
I assume the restart is just about money.

With that said, I did see some of the teams 8 game schedules and there are a lot of good matchups.  When you boot out over 25% of the sad sack teams, the league gets much more competitive and interesting.  So there's that. 
Title: Re: Kamster the Hamster
Post by: Kam on July 11, 2020, 02:48:16 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on July 11, 2020, 01:12:33 AM
Quote from: Kam on July 10, 2020, 11:17:29 PM
It's best to keep this a Knicks forum and leave the politics out of it.

F. you Kamster.
I ain’t going anywhere.
PS. Enes says hello.
PPS. Recep says to lay low for now.

I never told you to go anywhere.

PS.  Fuck you too
Title: You wanna say "all posts matter" when there's not enough knicks posts?
Post by: Kam on July 11, 2020, 02:58:27 PM


Me: Knicks posts matter

Carlos: i aint going no where!
Lester: We are in danger of disappearing!

Y'all sound like some dumb white bikers at a BLM rally

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on July 11, 2020, 03:03:36 PM
Carlos you never contribute anything anyway.  You can stay here and feed off lester.
Title: Coach Pops Believes the Bubble Will Be Safe...
Post by: lesterluv on July 11, 2020, 07:49:45 PM
...or at least safer than most of Texas.

"From an intellectual point of view and a medical point of view, I would have to say not probably, but I am safer here -- if this bubble works -- I'm safer here than I would be in Texas. For sure. As you see what's going on there."

"I talked to a lot of people, I talked to Adam [Silver], and you find out pretty quickly what he and his staff of many have gone through to put this thing together," Popovich said. "I honestly do believe, and it's not just me being a loyal soldier to the NBA, I've done my share of criticizing here and there when I thought it was necessary, but I don't know where else you would be as safe as we are right now. They can't spoil us here as much as they usually do, before COVID -- we're pretty spoiled, in all kinds of ways. So we're not as spoiled now, but it's good for all of us."


https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29448111/spurs-coach-gregg-popovich-says-nba-bubble-safest-place-be (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29448111/spurs-coach-gregg-popovich-says-nba-bubble-safest-place-be)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 11, 2020, 08:19:08 PM
Pop the dope
Title: Kamster, the Law and Order Hamster
Post by: carlos123 on July 11, 2020, 10:32:24 PM
Quote from: Kam on July 11, 2020, 02:58:27 PM


Me: Knicks posts matter

Carlos: i aint going no where!
Lester: We are in danger of disappearing!

Y'all sound like some dumb white bikers at a BLM rally

You know how STOOPID this comparison is, don't you Kamster?
The Hamster Law: KPM, Knicks Posts Matter, hmmmm, where you get that from? Talk about DUMB!

Quote from: Kam on July 11, 2020, 03:03:36 PM
Carlos you never contribute anything anyway.  You can stay here and feed off lester.

I know Kamster, I know. You contributed a lot, mostly dissing Enes Kanter way back when. Good job Hamster!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on July 11, 2020, 10:34:03 PM
Oh shut up already.  You need to get over it
Title: The voice of reason
Post by: carlos123 on July 11, 2020, 10:43:44 PM
Quote from: Kam on July 11, 2020, 10:34:03 PM
Oh shut up already.  You need to get over it

Shut up ... the voice of reason.

Why don't you follow your own advice?
Title: Re: Carlos on fire
Post by: facilitatorn on July 12, 2020, 05:13:01 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on July 10, 2020, 10:30:54 PM
Coaching interviews: Just keep Miller! If it ain't broke don't fix it, damm.

Damn straight.

Don’t think that’s what we’re going to do however, and I’m ready to be put off and eventually disappointed by the choice the Knicks do make.

Basketball happens in the world, and the world is greatly effected by human politics. For instance the NBA bubble lasting long enough to do the games they intend to count is diminishing daily for reasons too numerous to count.
Title: Re: Carlos on fire
Post by: bodiddley on July 12, 2020, 05:48:38 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on July 10, 2020, 10:30:54 PM
Coaching interviews: Just keep Miller! If it ain't broke don't fix it, damm.

Wait, it ain't broke?

There isn't a better coach out there than Miller?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 12, 2020, 02:43:50 PM
LANCE THOMAS to Nets.  Cool.
Title: Re: Carlos on fire
Post by: facilitatorn on July 12, 2020, 07:45:32 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 12, 2020, 05:48:38 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on July 10, 2020, 10:30:54 PM
Coaching interviews: Just keep Miller! If it ain't broke don't fix it, damm.

Wait, it ain't broke?

There isn't a better coach out there than Miller?

His priorities for the team he’s coaching match my priorities for the team I’m pulling for. In addition to making clear progress in a short time with the whole team, he has a track record from the GLeague stint starting or reviving players pro careers.

Also I really liked the way Mitch, Frank, Kevin, and RJ were playing down the stretch and if we don’t trade any of them, they will be our four most important hold overs.
Title: Buy Goya?
Post by: chipstern on July 12, 2020, 10:06:35 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 11, 2020, 08:19:08 PM
Pop the dope

Just when one thinks Kiid has reached his nadir, he burrows deeper into the sub-magma of deplorable provocation. 

Buy Goya?

Right.  And Mexicans are rapists. 

PS: FUCK YOU. 
Title: Re: Carlos on fire
Post by: carlos123 on July 12, 2020, 10:39:04 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 12, 2020, 07:45:32 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 12, 2020, 05:48:38 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on July 10, 2020, 10:30:54 PM
Coaching interviews: Just keep Miller! If it ain't broke don't fix it, damm.

Wait, it ain't broke?

There isn't a better coach out there than Miller?

His priorities for the team he’s coaching match my priorities for the team I’m pulling for. In addition to making clear progress in a short time with the whole team, he has a track record from the GLeague stint starting or reviving players pro careers.

Also I really liked the way Mitch, Frank, Kevin, and RJ were playing down the stretch and if we don’t trade any of them, they will be our four most important hold overs.

Thanks Fac, that's pretty much what I would have responded, so you did it for me. A few additional comments:

Miller works for the players we have. A more established coach may not, remember Larry Brown? You never know, but if we try and fail, then it will be too late to get back what was already working. Besides, some of the "star" coaches, such as Thibs or JVG, with their inflexible styles and 7/8 men rotations are probably wrong for this group.

It would be a welcome surprise for the Knicks to show some fucking loyalty for a change.

Clearly, Miller connects with the players. Also, he's VERY articulate, which certainly helps with the press in NY.

PS. BoZ, I went and checked out the Trump Admin. forum. Maybe I just picked the wrong date (last night), but the two pages I saw were dominated by none other than Chico Cartero. I mean, the guy is so ridiculous that he's funny IN RELATIVELY SMALL DOSES, such as in here. But too much of him can give one indigestion. Let's take the "BUY GOYA". We all know why he picked that signature, no explanation required. Well, in your favorite forum he devotes a whole post to explain it. Just a bit too much. NO THANKS.
Title: My doggie
Post by: carlos123 on July 12, 2020, 10:59:07 PM
Les, Kamster the Hamster splained that all I do in this forum is feed off of you, which is true cause you my doggie.

So I went and checked out your last hairdo, this one:

(https://sadanduseless.b-cdn.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/funny-dog-grooming18.jpg)

Review: the do itself is ok, but you need to show your canine teeth. Maybe you can work on some hybrid. Here's an idea

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3dnXATrPLFJR7DDjHRkzPFZx90z-by3tGtrwC4DIH5TMSCi0J_I7AZyjb3PDShJUac6hzwjg2foqqS5z0PJ0-c5Unm75R5Y7XUo8c4mHR2bKETtpWNsQfYcsPWeU8uJkyoLVioE6rj9vOwA5P-jb-yp=w657-h660-no?authuser=0)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 12, 2020, 11:14:46 PM
Right.  And Mexicans are rapists.

     

Most aren't - no.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 12, 2020, 11:19:06 PM
Also I really liked the way Mitch, Frank, Kevin, and RJ were playing down the stretch and if we don’t trade any of them, they will be our four most important hold overs.



heh
Title: heh
Post by: carlos123 on July 13, 2020, 01:32:34 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 12, 2020, 11:19:06 PM
Also I really liked the way Mitch, Frank, Kevin, and RJ were playing down the stretch and if we don’t trade any of them, they will be our four most important hold overs.



heh

Ladies and Gentlemen, here is the essence of the deepest thoughts of ...

Chico heh Cartero.

He who lately BUYS GOYA!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 13, 2020, 02:24:02 AM
I'm fine with Miller if that's the way they want to go.
Just good if the front office and HC (and players) are on the same page.

Glad they are doing a thorough coaching search.  Hopefully we'll have a front office and coach that stay together for a long time.  Maybe some day we'll even have a stable set of players.

I like Atkinson. 
Creative, flexible, worked well with yute in BKY.
Anyone that Kyrie and KD don't like gets my vote ...
Title: Re: heh
Post by: facilitatorn on July 13, 2020, 04:09:24 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on July 13, 2020, 01:32:34 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 12, 2020, 11:19:06 PM
Also I really liked the way Mitch, Frank, Kevin, and RJ were playing down the stretch and if we don’t trade any of them, they will be our four most important hold overs.



heh

Ladies and Gentlemen, here is the essence of the deepest thoughts of ...

Chico heh Cartero.

He who lately BUYS GOYA!

He doesqn’t buy shit.

He gets walked so he can poop in the yard and not on the rug, occasionally.

No, he’s no kind of dog. He’s just overweight for a rat because of that NJ welfare state and white privilege.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 13, 2020, 04:22:14 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 13, 2020, 02:24:02 AM
I'm fine with Miller if that's the way they want to go.
Just good if the front office and HC (and players) are on the same page.

Glad they are doing a thorough coaching search.  Hopefully we'll have a front office and coach that stay together for a long time.  Maybe some day we'll even have a stable set of players.

I like Atkinson. 
Creative, flexible, worked well with yute in BKY.
Anyone that Kyrie and KD don't like gets my vote ...

Atkinson and Thibs are two sides of the same problem for me.

Kenny develops players and schemes and builds confidence and belief, but he gets out coached down the stretch through in game adjustments and that can be a very big problem.

Thibs is a pro’s pro who’s done the grinding and grunt work to build some amazing defenses. With the Bulls we were starting to see where he could take talent, but all of his Wolves tenure was like the tail of his time in Chicago. Short rotations and over leaning on stars followed by personality burnout can also be a very big problem.

Both of these guys have the track record and regard that associate HC roles are pretty much out of the question, even though that’s where they’ve both really shined.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 13, 2020, 08:48:44 AM
Rondo broke his thumb, out 6-8 weeks.

So A Very Bradley & Rondo both gone.
Means LeBJ has to do a lot more on both sides of the ball.
And they have to use JEarl, Q Cook and Caruso a good deal more.

Makes it less likely LAL comes out of the West.
Though things could get weird, especially if a star such as Kahwi gets the virus, or if a whole team has to drop out in case of an outbreak.

Florida catching up to California for 2nd most cases (behind NY).
The whole state is a hotspot.  Not sure they'll be able to bubble off the campus from all the outside contractors, food suppliers, etc.  They should double test all players and workers to guard against false negatives.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 13, 2020, 12:27:28 PM
Dion Waiters I think also there.

----

Hearing Mike Woodson getting a leg up in Knicks search
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 13, 2020, 03:50:05 PM
Florida with the most active CV-19 cases in the nation
Title: Petri Dish
Post by: chipstern on July 13, 2020, 04:11:54 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 13, 2020, 03:50:05 PM
Florida with the most active CV-19 cases in the nation

https://nypost.com/2020/07/13/russell-westbrook-becomes-biggest-nba-star-with-coronavirus/ (https://nypost.com/2020/07/13/russell-westbrook-becomes-biggest-nba-star-with-coronavirus/)

Westbrook Tests Positive. 

Florida is a fucking Petri Dish. 

Not unlike Kiid's mind.  Infectious for no good reason, save an exaltation of DumbAss. 

This is Not going to End WELL. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 13, 2020, 04:48:00 PM
How about we ask Westbrook his schedule the last 2 weeks

Where has he been hanging out?

Could be helpful.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 13, 2020, 04:55:55 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 13, 2020, 04:48:00 PM
How about we ask Westbrook his schedule the last 2 weeks

Where has he been hanging out?

Could be helpful.

I hope he wasn’t listening to some degenerate grifter claiming the whole thing was a hoax that would go away in warmer weather.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 13, 2020, 05:05:12 PM
NBA top 100 (1 remaining Knick, 1 traded)


https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2889335-bleacher-reports-top-100-player-rankings-from-the-2019-20-nba-season?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 13, 2020, 05:09:07 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 13, 2020, 04:55:55 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 13, 2020, 04:48:00 PM
How about we ask Westbrook his schedule the last 2 weeks

Where has he been hanging out?

Could be helpful.

I hope he wasn’t listening to some degenerate grifter claiming the whole thing was a hoax that would go away in warmer weather.

More current info is out there for most Americans, though I do fear the homeless, no access to tv/radio/newspapers could have no clue about the COVID issue.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 13, 2020, 08:40:29 PM
Russ got the virus before going to FLA

Petri dish comment thus makes little sense.
Title: coach
Post by: carlos123 on July 13, 2020, 10:27:24 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 13, 2020, 02:24:02 AM
I'm fine with Miller if that's the way they want to go.
Just good if the front office and HC (and players) are on the same page.

Glad they are doing a thorough coaching search.  Hopefully we'll have a front office and coach that stay together for a long time.  Maybe some day we'll even have a stable set of players.

I like Atkinson. 
Creative, flexible, worked well with yute in BKY.
Anyone that Kyrie and KD don't like gets my vote ...

And what's the point of switching to Atkinson if we already have someone that is also creative, flexible, works well with OUR yute, etc?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 14, 2020, 12:23:09 PM
Well, I think it's silly to pretend they are the same.
They have their individual strengths and weaknesses.  But more important is how comfortable the FO is with either of them.

Also, Atkinson has proven he can be a good head coach and can handle NYC. 
He seems to have more of a presence too.

But I never really think much about trying to match a coach with a team.  And in this case we have no idea which players will be here long term.  So it's more match the coach with the front office, though I'd prefer a guy who is good at development.

I'll be very surprised if they stick with Miller.  But it's okay with me.  Not like we're winning a title in the next 5 years.  So a solid coach who improves things is fine with me.  Whoever gets chosen, I hope they remain coach for a good 4 or 5 years at least.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 14, 2020, 12:25:15 PM
Two good jerseys I've seen in the past week:

In a game, a girl was rocking a Philly Fultz jersey

And another day, at another court a guy had a black Jokic jersey.
Title: Welcome to the club
Post by: carlos123 on July 14, 2020, 03:24:23 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 14, 2020, 12:23:09 PM
Well, I think it's silly to pretend they are the same.
They have their individual strengths and weaknesses.  But more important is how comfortable the FO is with either of them.

Also, Atkinson has proven he can be a good head coach and can handle NYC. 
He seems to have more of a presence too.

But I never really think much about trying to match a coach with a team.  And in this case we have no idea which players will be here long term.  So it's more match the coach with the front office, though I'd prefer a guy who is good at development.

I'll be very surprised if they stick with Miller.  But it's okay with me.  Not like we're winning a title in the next 5 years.  So a solid coach who improves things is fine with me.  Whoever gets chosen, I hope they remain coach for a good 4 or 5 years at least.

Well, that makes three of you: Chico knows I'm low IQ, Kamster says I'm dumb and BoZ thinks I'm silly. That's almost a majority of people who post on this forum.

Now, for all the bright minds, I didn't say that Miller and Atkinson are the same. Only that the qualities you listed for Atkinson are not lacking with Miller.

The question to BoZ would be, why is Atkinson a better fit than Miller? Is Atkinson so superior that, even though we saw impressive improvement with Miller, it's worth it taking the gamble of trying a different "improver"?

PS. I know the "impressive improvement" happened over a very low Fizzy-base. You gotta work with what you have.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 14, 2020, 03:32:37 PM
I'd like a long-term integrated management team.
Whether that's with Miller, Atkinson, or somebody else in the mix.  The churn hasn't worked. 

Generally, a new front office wants to bring in their guy who meets their requirements and see things their way.  Also, Miller has a thin resume compared to other candidates.  In his favor, he knows the players and organization and did all right last year.   A deep search isn't exactly a vote of confidence, but we'll see what the end result is.

Atkinson or Miller would signal a patient rebuilding approach (more or less).  Thibs or JVG a more win now mentality and likely the arrival of more vets.  I'd favor the first approach.  Though I'm not terribly excited about our yute.  We totally blew the KZ thang, so now we're back to hoping to hit on a lottery pick.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 14, 2020, 06:14:03 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 13, 2020, 08:40:29 PM
Russ got the virus before going to FLA

Petri dish comment thus makes little sense.

No. 

You checked out how the virus is spiking in Florida.   

Next thing you'll be echoing Rush Limbaugh's calls for us to all chill and accept death and cannibalism like the Donner party. 

HEH
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 14, 2020, 08:10:33 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 14, 2020, 06:14:03 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 13, 2020, 08:40:29 PM
Russ got the virus before going to FLA

Petri dish comment thus makes little sense.

No. 

You checked out how the virus is spiking in Florida.   

Next thing you'll be echoing Rush Limbaugh's calls for us to all chill and accept death and cannibalism like the Donner party. 

HEH
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 14, 2020, 08:14:36 PM
I'll be very surprised if they stick with Miller.  But it's okay with me. Not like we're winning a title in the next 5 years.  So a solid coach who improves things is fine with me.  Whoever gets chosen, I hope they remain coach for a good 4 or 5 years at least.



I am not in agreement on this.           
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 14, 2020, 08:15:37 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 14, 2020, 06:14:03 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 13, 2020, 08:40:29 PM
Russ got the virus before going to FLA

Petri dish comment thus makes little sense.

No. 

You checked out how the virus is spiking in Florida.   

Next thing you'll be echoing Rush Limbaugh's calls for us to all chill and accept death and cannibalism like the Donner party. 

HEH


Enjoy the season

<click>
Title: OH NOOOOOOOO
Post by: carlos123 on July 14, 2020, 10:31:41 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 14, 2020, 08:15:37 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 14, 2020, 06:14:03 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 13, 2020, 08:40:29 PM
Russ got the virus before going to FLA

Petri dish comment thus makes little sense.

No. 

You checked out how the virus is spiking in Florida.   

Next thing you'll be echoing Rush Limbaugh's calls for us to all chill and accept death and cannibalism like the Donner party. 

HEH


Enjoy the season

<click>

Does this <click> mean Chico is leaving us?

Oh, nooooooooo, please, PLEASE!

Chico heh Cartero provides comic relief. I don't want him to overwhelm this forum, like the Trumptin forum, but I do want him to keep on posting here IN MODERATE DOSES.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 14, 2020, 11:36:14 PM
Thats right, 'los

No.

Good boy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on July 14, 2020, 11:57:11 PM
Well, if he had left, the median forum IQ woulda shot up by about 50 points.

This was the really funny one:

Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 13, 2020, 05:09:07 PM


More current info is out there for most Americans, though I do fear the homeless, no access to tv/radio/newspapers could have no clue about the COVID issue.

His current info: Shine a UV flashlight up yer ass, drink bleach shots, go to indoor rallies and spit on each other.

Meanwhile, in places not using Kiid's current info: https://www.voanews.com/covid-19-pandemic/new-york-city-reports-no-covid-deaths-24-hours (https://www.voanews.com/covid-19-pandemic/new-york-city-reports-no-covid-deaths-24-hours)
Title: Good boy
Post by: carlos123 on July 15, 2020, 01:27:02 AM
Well, Les, ain’t you glad I convinced him to stay here?

Had he left, we woulda lost 16.67% of the current 6 posters we still have.

Tragic! 😫
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 15, 2020, 11:19:21 AM
Well, Les, ain’t you glad I convinced him to stay here?



Right - that's what you did.

heh
Title: Mr. heh strikes again
Post by: carlos123 on July 15, 2020, 01:19:05 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 15, 2020, 11:19:21 AM
Well, Les, ain’t you glad I convinced him to stay here?



Right - that's what you did.

heh

I know, Chico, I know 😁
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on July 15, 2020, 01:40:12 PM
heh, it's not like he had anywhere else to go.

offtopic: Gov Stitt, who likes to do kiidIQhomelesstypestm things like go to indoor death rallies without a face mask unsurprisingly catches covid.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/15/politics/kevin-stitt-oklahoma-governor-coronavirus/index.html (https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/15/politics/kevin-stitt-oklahoma-governor-coronavirus/index.html)

Stitt said at the news conference he is "not thinking about a mask mandate at all."
"I'm hesitant to mandate something that is problematic to enforce," he said.
rofl


ontopic: Seems like Nets' players & signees have been getting their virus advice straight from kiid, the bad run continues.

https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/nets/ny-michael-beasley-coronavirus-20200714-stxrcqorsbcircoqe7eaqg5f4i-story.html (https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/nets/ny-michael-beasley-coronavirus-20200714-stxrcqorsbcircoqe7eaqg5f4i-story.html)


ontopic: In praise of Ime.
https://nypost.com/2020/07/15/ime-udoka-is-wild-card-knicks-candidate-outside-of-recycled-coaches-association/ (https://nypost.com/2020/07/15/ime-udoka-is-wild-card-knicks-candidate-outside-of-recycled-coaches-association/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 15, 2020, 01:58:10 PM
Nets reportedly signed Jamal Crawford (and Lance Thomas).
So Craw replaces Kyrie, Lance takes Wil's place ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 15, 2020, 02:20:29 PM
ontopic: Seems like Nets' players & signees have been getting their virus advice straight from kiid, the bad run continues.



They must all be hanging around with school children
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on July 15, 2020, 04:57:28 PM
lol, nobody knows or cares what that could possibly mean.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 15, 2020, 06:35:40 PM
Not enough old people, pickers, and meat plant workers are being fed into the maw of his dark god. Now he wants to start in on the school aged children.

Kiid is getting ahead of the other plague carriers by becoming a plague worshiper.
Title: Poor Chico
Post by: carlos123 on July 15, 2020, 10:22:28 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on July 15, 2020, 04:57:28 PM
lol, nobody knows or cares what that could possibly mean.

Quote from: facilitatorn on July 15, 2020, 06:35:40 PM
Kiid is getting ahead of the other plague carriers by becoming a plague worshiper.

Please, don't be so hard on poor Chico heh Cartero. Remember the comic relief. And remember the 16.67% of posters we don't wanna lose here.

I'm not saying your comments are wrong, but you could soften them a little, such as ...

Les: What do you mean, dear Chico?

Fac: Dear kiid, do you really worship Trumptin, the plague spreader?

You never know, you may even make him think.

PS. Dear Chico, thanks for your good wishes. RBG back home, and feeling better.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on July 16, 2020, 12:53:51 PM
Ontopic: Zion checks out of the bubble...

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29474441/zion-williamson-leaves-nba-bubble-due-family-matter (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29474441/zion-williamson-leaves-nba-bubble-due-family-matter)

Here's what he'll need to do to check back in.

Zion Williamson will quarantine for 4 days upon return to the NBA's bubble if he has a negative test each day he's outside the bubble if he's gone for 7 days or less, or each day for the final 7 days he's gone if longer than that. If he doesn't, he will quarantine for 10 days.

Semi-Ontopic: Death tour stalls: GOP sez what the f&ck, gonna look real bad if late-Aug attendees are kicking the bucket in October right before the election.

https://www.npr.org/2020/07/16/891785079/gop-scales-back-convention-plans-relenting-on-virus-restrictions (https://www.npr.org/2020/07/16/891785079/gop-scales-back-convention-plans-relenting-on-virus-restrictions)

kiid will still be outside VyStar Veterans Memorial Arena, maskless with drool bucket, saying..wait, wait, what?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 16, 2020, 01:22:52 PM
Crawford less than 600 points shy of 20K.
He's 40 and would need to play next year to secure that milestone.
But that's pretty impressive.
One of the absolute worst defenders ever, but always could score and became a useful player once he was willing to take a bench role (ie post-Knix).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on July 16, 2020, 01:46:58 PM
I applauded his departure from the Knicks just cause I couldn't look at his defense anymore, but he sure kept proving his worth on the other end over and over again.
Title: Poll
Post by: carlos123 on July 16, 2020, 10:10:45 PM
Only 5 or 6 people posting here, but Knicks ain't playing. Once stuff starts to happen we'll know if the forum revives or if it's dead for good. I think it will come back to some sort of life.
Title: Coach Pops absolutely rips new a^%holes for Texas Gov & Lt. Gov
Post by: lesterluv on July 16, 2020, 10:59:28 PM

“We have a lieutenant governor who decided he doesn’t want to listen to Fauci and those people any more,” Popovich continued. “That makes a lot of sense. How safe can that be? The messaging is ridiculous.

The governor goes back and forth based on whether he has to satisfy Trump or listen to the numbers — politics show maybe he better do this because the virus has done that. But no overall policy, no principle. It’s all about politics. It’s all about what’s good for them. And ‘them’ means Trump. Because they’re all cowards and they’re all afraid.

https://sports.yahoo.com/gregg-popovich-rips-coward-texas-gov-gregg-abbott-says-nba-bubble-is-safer-than-home-state-013300136.html (https://sports.yahoo.com/gregg-popovich-rips-coward-texas-gov-gregg-abbott-says-nba-bubble-is-safer-than-home-state-013300136.html)

viral update: Bledsoe
Title: Re: Poll
Post by: Echo4 on July 17, 2020, 04:00:24 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on July 16, 2020, 10:10:45 PM
Only 5 or 6 people posting here, but Knicks ain't playing. Once stuff starts to happen we'll know if the forum revives or if it's dead for good. I think it will come back to some sort of life.

Thanks, Carlos.

I suspect you are right.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 17, 2020, 12:30:54 PM
My hopes of a Miller led staff are dwindling.

Pulling for Thibs or Kenny to keep us from picking Kidd.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 17, 2020, 03:27:52 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 17, 2020, 12:30:54 PM
My hopes of a Miller led staff are dwindling.

Pulling for Thibs or Kenny to keep us from picking Kidd.

Yep
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 17, 2020, 09:44:56 PM
“The decision to exclude seeding games from awards voting ensures a fair process in which players and coaches from all 30 teams will have the same opportunity to be honored as top performers for the regular season,” the NBA wrote in a memo sent to teams Friday. The Associated Press obtained a copy of the memo.





hahahahahah
Title: Coach
Post by: carlos123 on July 17, 2020, 10:37:08 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 17, 2020, 12:30:54 PM
My hopes of a Miller led staff are dwindling.

Pulling for Thibs or Kenny to keep us from picking Kidd.

No to Thibs!

And fuck Dolan, Rose and the brand guy. Fuck them all!

PS. Dear Chico, why u use two names? and what the hell about is "Free Portland"? Must be a very old sign off. Please change it to the RBG good wishes, she needs them. Thanks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 18, 2020, 01:19:52 AM
He’s concerned about the jackbooted federal thugs stomping on civil liberties there just when the BLM - elected leaders discourse was raising the quality of life and setting a blueprint which the entire country will wind up following anyway despite more senseless violence engineered by trump and his scumbag lackeys.

I’ve got Onyeka then Deni as 1 & 2 on my big board respectively.

Go Knicks!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 18, 2020, 07:12:55 PM
No to Thibs!


 no
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 18, 2020, 07:13:48 PM
And fuck Dolan, Rose and the brand guy. Fuck them all!



Leon's alright by me
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 18, 2020, 07:15:41 PM
PS. Dear Chico, why u use two names? and what the hell about is "Free Portland"? Must be a very old sign off. Please change it to the RBG good wishes, she needs them. Thanks.



Many, many names

Cant be pinned down.

This one has done me fine, I think.

FREE RBG!
Title: Good Boy Chico
Post by: carlos123 on July 18, 2020, 10:28:54 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 18, 2020, 07:15:41 PM
PS. Dear Chico, why u use two names? and what the hell about is "Free Portland"? Must be a very old sign off. Please change it to the RBG good wishes, she needs them. Thanks.



Many, many names

Cant be pinned down.

This one has done me fine, I think.

FREE RBG!

Glad you can't be pinned down. That should keep you alive.

FREE RBG? I'm sure you mean GET WELL, RBG.

And FREE PORTLAND OF CBP and other jackbooted federal thugs, like Fac said so eloquently.
Title: And then....
Post by: chipstern on July 19, 2020, 12:32:19 AM
There were five. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 19, 2020, 12:52:39 AM
Rock is dead they say

Long live rock.


In sunny Brooklyn,

http://nypost.com/2020/07/18/taj-gibson-not-worried-about-big-knicks-decision-as-he-rallies-in-bed-stuy/ (http://nypost.com/2020/07/18/taj-gibson-not-worried-about-big-knicks-decision-as-he-rallies-in-bed-stuy/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 19, 2020, 03:15:13 PM
Quote
Head coach of the New York Knicks was always Tom Thibodeau’s job to lose — the guy running the show now at Madison Square Garden used to be Thibodeau’s agent.

Jason Kidd may have come the closest to taking the job with an impressive interview, but Thibodeau is still likely to land the hob, writes Marc Berman at the New York Post.

While sources says Jason Kidd wowed Knicks brass with “a great interview,” it might not be enough to topple Thibodeau, whose relationship with Knicks president Leon Rose and senior vice president William Wesley should prove insurmountable. They repped Thibodeau at Creative Artists Agency…

I'm still an Atkinson guy (proven player and culture developer)
Fine with Kidd, Mark Jax.
Thibs seems to signal we'll dump yute/picks for vets.
Forget who else has interviewed.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 19, 2020, 03:30:30 PM
Mitch better than Chamberlain!

Quote
But Robinson was efficient: He made 4.1 of those shot attempts, giving him a 74.2% shooting percentage — which will be the best all-time when the season ends (after the restart seeding games), besting Wilt Chamberlain in 1973 at 72.7%.
Title: Re: And then....
Post by: carlos123 on July 19, 2020, 04:06:56 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 19, 2020, 12:32:19 AM
There were five.

Why so cryptic Chip?
Title: Fuckemall
Post by: carlos123 on July 19, 2020, 04:08:20 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 19, 2020, 03:15:13 PM
Quote
Head coach of the New York Knicks was always Tom Thibodeau’s job to lose — the guy running the show now at Madison Square Garden used to be Thibodeau’s agent.

Jason Kidd may have come the closest to taking the job with an impressive interview, but Thibodeau is still likely to land the hob, writes Marc Berman at the New York Post.

While sources says Jason Kidd wowed Knicks brass with “a great interview,” it might not be enough to topple Thibodeau, whose relationship with Knicks president Leon Rose and senior vice president William Wesley should prove insurmountable. They repped Thibodeau at Creative Artists Agency…

I'm still an Atkinson guy (proven player and culture developer)
Fine with Kidd, Mark Jax.
Thibs seems to signal we'll dump yute/picks for vets.
Forget who else has interviewed.

Like I said before, fuck them all, especially Dolan and Leon Fucking Rose!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on July 20, 2020, 12:09:25 AM
https://www.inceptivemind.com/robot-dance-cheerleaders-baseball-games-japan/14261/ (https://www.inceptivemind.com/robot-dance-cheerleaders-baseball-games-japan/14261/)
Title: New mock
Post by: Kam on July 21, 2020, 10:16:33 AM
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2020-nba-mock-draft-james-wiseman-too-good-to-pass-up-at-no-1-tyrese-haliburton-jumps-into-top-five/ (https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2020-nba-mock-draft-james-wiseman-too-good-to-pass-up-at-no-1-tyrese-haliburton-jumps-into-top-five/)

1 GS  Wiseman
2 CLE Edwards
3 MIN Ball
4 ATL Haliburton
5 DET Hayes
6 NYK Avidja

Welp, there goes my pick Haliburton
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 21, 2020, 11:41:53 AM
Makes less sense for Hawks

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 21, 2020, 03:17:08 PM
Wiseman makes sense for GS.  Maybe they could extract something for controlling where Edwards goes(?)

I really doubt Portland is taking Cole Anthony.
They need a defender preferably at the F slot.
Title: Re: New mock
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 21, 2020, 03:26:51 PM
Quote from: Kam on July 21, 2020, 10:16:33 AM
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2020-nba-mock-draft-james-wiseman-too-good-to-pass-up-at-no-1-tyrese-haliburton-jumps-into-top-five/ (https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2020-nba-mock-draft-james-wiseman-too-good-to-pass-up-at-no-1-tyrese-haliburton-jumps-into-top-five/)

1 GS  Wiseman
2 CLE Edwards
3 MIN Ball
4 ATL Haliburton
5 DET Hayes
6 NYK Avidja

Welp, there goes my pick Haliburton

Tyrese Haliburton's been effective and efficient for both winning teams and losing teams, showcasing himself as a reliable 3-point shooter, ball-handler and defender with great instincts and feel to boot. But there is at least some concern among talent evaluators that his lack of athletic burst could hinder him as a true lead guard. In Atlanta, with Trae Young, that makes no difference. He has the skill set to play off the ball or even capably run the second unit, which figures to be a focal point either in free agency or via the draft this year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 21, 2020, 03:29:50 PM
Carey at 28

LMFAO
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 22, 2020, 06:00:45 PM
Nets-Pels
7 pm
Title: Nets
Post by: carlos123 on July 23, 2020, 12:42:27 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 22, 2020, 06:00:45 PM
Nets-Pels
7 pm

Poor Nets.

On the other hand, fuckem!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 23, 2020, 02:25:02 AM
Denver trots our a lineup of Plumlee Jokic Bol Milsap and Grant then proceeds to spank the Wiz.

What era of basketball are we in now?
Title: Even the Donald isn't buttkiidstoopid
Post by: lesterluv on July 23, 2020, 06:10:39 PM
or, more plausibly, his new campaign manager isn't buttkiidstoopidtm

ROTFL

No, Donald, we just can't have the attendees rolling into overstuffed ICU's on election eve.***

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-cancels-republican-national-convention-events-florida-coronavirus/story?id=71950084 (https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-cancels-republican-national-convention-events-florida-coronavirus/story?id=71950084)

*** the real reason — too embarrassing to throw a party where barely 25 people show up and Ted Yoho is the only pol.


yohoho
Title: buttkiidstoopid
Post by: carlos123 on July 23, 2020, 08:25:54 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on July 23, 2020, 06:10:39 PM
or, more plausibly, his new campaign manager isn't buttkiidstoopidtm

ROTFL

No, Donald, we just can't have the attendees rolling into overstuffed ICU's on election eve.***

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-cancels-republican-national-convention-events-florida-coronavirus/story?id=71950084 (https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-cancels-republican-national-convention-events-florida-coronavirus/story?id=71950084)

*** the real reason — too embarrassing to throw a party where barely 25 people show up and Ted Yoho is the only pol.


yohoho

Chico’s favorite candidate in 2016 actually was Chris Christie.

Les, be nice to Chico 👦

Instead of buttkiidstoopid, you could have said chiconaive, for example.
Title: Re: buttkiidstoopid
Post by: lesterluv on July 24, 2020, 10:51:41 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on July 23, 2020, 08:25:54 PM

Les, be nice to Chico 👦

Instead of buttkiidstoopid, you could have said chiconaive, for example.

lol, maybe I'll be nicer to our village imbecile once my summer entertainment officially begins on 7/30 — overcoming the head-up-the-rectum idiocy and hypocrisy*** of his racist red-haired god.


*** As Trump Calls for Schools to Fully Reopen, His Son’s School Says It Will Not. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/23/us/politics/barron-trump-school-coronavirus.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/23/us/politics/barron-trump-school-coronavirus.html)

The Trump administration appears more willing to follow the science and quickly adopt safety protocols when coronavirus hits close to home.
  https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/07/turns-out-the-white-house-is-all-about-contact-tracing-for-its-own-employees (https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/07/turns-out-the-white-house-is-all-about-contact-tracing-for-its-own-employees)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on July 24, 2020, 03:10:57 PM
What's he asking for? Can't believe $$ are the hangup.

https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/ny-jason-kidd-knicks-coach-thidodeau-20200724-jw5f4ec5vfg7xmnredsmfqtzsa-story.html (https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/ny-jason-kidd-knicks-coach-thidodeau-20200724-jw5f4ec5vfg7xmnredsmfqtzsa-story.html)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 24, 2020, 04:00:08 PM
Thibs wants a hand in shopping for the groceries, I am sure
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on July 25, 2020, 01:36:12 PM
Apparently, they worked it out. If so, welcome.

The New York Knicks and Tom Thibodeau are finalizing a five-year deal to make him the franchise’s next coach, sources tell ESPN.

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1287073651880267776 (https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1287073651880267776)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 25, 2020, 02:13:34 PM
Glad we dodged the Kidd bullet.

Thibs knows what the owner is and how the franchise looks when it’s running well. He definitely favors hard workers and people who focus on the defensive end. It will be interesting to see who fills out the staff.

I hope Thibs is excited to work with Miller who I hope we keep.

Lots of work to do.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 25, 2020, 02:38:45 PM
 What I have been saying:


https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2901220-2020-nba-draft-buzz-whod-trade-up-for-lamelo-ball-top-prospect-slipping
Title: TT
Post by: chipstern on July 25, 2020, 03:31:59 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 25, 2020, 02:13:34 PM
Glad we dodged the Kidd bullet.

Thibs knows what the owner is and how the franchise looks when it’s running well. He definitely favors hard workers and people who focus on the defensive end. It will be interesting to see who fills out the staff.

I hope Thibs is excited to work with Miller who I hope we keep.

Lots of work to do.

Good. 

Agree about Kidd.  LOVED, LOVED, LOVED him as head coach on the floor for Woodson.  As a coach...makes me nervous, and that free agent magnet tease concerning Giannis is BULL Shit. 

Agree about Miller.  Be interesting to see how TT defines his staff.  Rod Strickland's name was floated. 

Now send up a prayer for Haliburton.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/tyrese-haliburton-1.html (https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/tyrese-haliburton-1.html)

Pretty impressive stat line.  God knows he can SHOOT. And DEFEND. 

https://www.nbadraft.net/nba-mock-drafts/ (https://www.nbadraft.net/nba-mock-drafts/)

NBADRAFT.NET still has him falling to us at #6.  If we could get him there, trading up for Ball, tempting as that might be, seems like an over reach. 

THEN AGAIN, NBADraft.Net projects us taking PGs with all three of our picks, which seems dubious. 

Be that as it may, even at #6, something tasty looks to drop in our lap.  Not sure we are absolutely committed to drafting a PG come hell or high water. 

Signing PG Jared Harper, even at 5'11", is a tell. 

And I think Ntilikina is TT's kind of guy.  He was making significant progress on the offensive end the last few weeks when the season was sht down. 

Be interesting to see how TT & Perry proceed with Peyton and Dennis Smith.  A lot depends on how the draft goes. 

AS YOU WERE.  
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 25, 2020, 05:08:12 PM
Hell no to any kind of trading up in this draft. Hopefully the lotto gods will be nice enough to give us a crack at Deni, Okongwu, or the choice of either, especially now Thibs is here.
Title: The joint chiefs?
Post by: Kam on July 25, 2020, 08:38:04 PM
(https://preview.redd.it/q67tu0j5m1d51.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=e85855f53f7cfd89015a0dfa935cdc8f0bba1781)

Offense                                               Defense                                          Player Development
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 25, 2020, 08:45:37 PM
And I think Ntilikina is TT's kind of guy.  He was making significant progress on the offensive end the last few weeks when the season was sht down.



yep  killed it


https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/ntilila01/gamelog/2020
Title: Re: The joint chiefs?
Post by: carlos123 on July 25, 2020, 09:50:39 PM
Quote from: Kam on July 25, 2020, 08:38:04 PM
(https://preview.redd.it/q67tu0j5m1d51.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=e85855f53f7cfd89015a0dfa935cdc8f0bba1781)

Offense                                               Defense                                          Player Development

Why do you have Woodson there, and for offense?

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3c9FxscLYfR71PnQsJJ2V26-EIFJcb3MP41VrByK8-BfzZ6QkoiDlrCI67BvMSi1iXaMpCgaVotsWGynrJBbt2dfcMR24aWNhsHqwnOqm8RrWL0-aCTVy48Be8ORilX8Oru4a4Rbzl4ubV4hcBMAREm=w1019-h319-no?authuser=0)

Yes, great offensive "system"!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on July 25, 2020, 11:41:13 PM
Quote
As for the offense, Thibs teams have never been high 3 point shooting teams, that's one of his weaknesses. But that's where Mike Woodson comes in.

Up until the GSW/Steph Curry revolution in 2015, the 2012-13 Knicks were the greatest 3 point shooting team ever. They thrived off of small ball and 3 point shots

For those looking for proof of this "greatest 3 point shooting team ever (until 2015) claim".

They had the 2nd most attempts all time at 2371, 1st was the 2013-14 Rockets with 2680

They had the 2nd most makes all time at 891, behind the 2013-14 Rockets with 933

The Rockets shot more and made more threes but they weren't as efficient since the Rockets shot 34.8% from 3 while the Knicks shot 37.6%

This Knicks had this success due to Mike Woodson moving Melo to the 4 and running a 2 guard back court with and shooting wings

Basically Woodson had a rotation of Tyson Chandler, Kurt Thomas, Marcus Camby, and Kenyon Martin playing the 5 defending the rim

Then he had stretch 4s in Melo, Steve Novak, and Chris Copeland

He had shooting/defensive wings with JR Smith, Iman Shumpert, Ronnie Brewer

Then had a backcourt with ball dominant playmakers that controlled the flow of the game Jason Kidd, Raymond Felton, and Pablo Prigioni.

Sound like a modern day set up right?
Title: Kamfka
Post by: carlos123 on July 25, 2020, 11:56:24 PM
Now Woodson was an offensive “genius”.

Lordy have Mercy!!!

Kamster, Kafka would be proud of you.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on July 26, 2020, 12:11:50 AM
eye roll emoji
Title: Re: Kamfka
Post by: Kam on July 26, 2020, 12:21:19 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on July 25, 2020, 11:56:24 PM
Now Woodson was an offensive “genius”.

Lordy have Mercy!!!

Kamster, Kafka would be proud of you.

What I expected from you. 

1. Using "genius" when it was never mentioned.
2. Not using any evidence/fact to refute a post that was factual.
3. Resorting to name calling.
Title: Taj Gibson
Post by: Kam on July 26, 2020, 12:32:20 AM
I think (just my opinion) we just guaranteed his option with the Thibs signing. 
Thibs needs people familiar with his ways.
Mitch stays 2nd unit.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 26, 2020, 12:52:26 AM
Taj on the team doesn’t mean Taj starts. I think the likelihood is up we pick up his option or reserve the MLE for him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on July 26, 2020, 12:59:51 AM
Excellent long form piece on how the I-am-a-buttkiidstupidtm-fucking-moron approach to coronavirus has killed thousands in Florida and still threatens lesterluv's summer entertainment.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/coronavirus-ravaged-florida-as-ron-desantis-sidelined-scientists-and-followed-trump/2020/07/25/0b8008da-c648-11ea-b037-f9711f89ee46_story.html (https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/coronavirus-ravaged-florida-as-ron-desantis-sidelined-scientists-and-followed-trump/2020/07/25/0b8008da-c648-11ea-b037-f9711f89ee46_story.html)


***4 days to go, Carlos, don't tell me to tone it down. In fact, I may not be able to until the fat lady successfully sings on the final series in October. October? WTF? October 13th? Jeezus...the world really is upside down.
Title: High expectations
Post by: carlos123 on July 26, 2020, 01:10:36 AM
Quote from: Kam on July 26, 2020, 12:21:19 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on July 25, 2020, 11:56:24 PM
Now Woodson was an offensive “genius”.

Lordy have Mercy!!!

Kamster, Kafka would be proud of you.

What I expected from you. 

1. Using "genius" when it was never mentioned.
2. Not using any evidence/fact to refute a post that was factual.
3. Resorting to name calling.

1. Implied.
2. Factual? Maybe he got lucky with Kidd/Prigioni. What happened the following year?
3. Ok, I’ll go back to Kamster the Great Hamster.
4. 🙄
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 26, 2020, 03:52:03 AM
Thibs was said to be the front runner all along.
And the extended search meant Miller had little chance.
The Knix hand out their usual 5 year deal (even Derek Fisher got one).  That's just Dolanbucks, but I guess if you're wasting his money, Dolan is gonna want a say now and then.

Well, Knix have reinvented their front office and will have a new coaches in place (we'll see who the assistants are and whether Miller sticks around). 
Now we'll just need a team ...

Thibs is a non-nonsense guy who works guys hard.  At least our guys will be in good condition.  And we'll try to play D. 

Mitch and Franc defend.  Should mean Mitch is a key cog.  Interesting to see how RJB does.  A chance for Franc to be an important role player.  Knox better work on his D or he could be sidelined.  Especially if we draft the Israeli kid.   You'd think Thibs would want Taj back, a guy who knows his system and ways, and we need some vet leadership, and one who is tight with the coach helps.
Randle?  He's a grinder but poor on D.  See if Mitch & Julius can team up, but
likely we'll be looking to move on from Randle unless he can work with Mitch.

Thibs had some good pieces in Minny and was also the GM for a time.
Managed just one 1st round exit.

Wonder how Thibs changes our draft strategy.  We certainly still need a PG and outside shooting.  I guess Obi T will not be a Knick.  Perhaps Okongwu becomes more attractive.  A Bam Adebayo type inside force. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on July 26, 2020, 12:57:48 PM
Sweet Lou Williams gets a buttkiidstoopidtm IQ award, otherwise known as a DeSanty...

https://sports.yahoo.com/lou-williams-10-day-quarantine-after-strip-club-trip-miss-two-games-141640464.html (https://sports.yahoo.com/lou-williams-10-day-quarantine-after-strip-club-trip-miss-two-games-141640464.html)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 26, 2020, 01:11:57 PM
LouW has said that for the past decade or so, he tries to stay away from the rooks and young players because he doesn't want to set a bad example.  That he likes to party and slack, and it doesn't seem to harm his play, but his lifestyle would probably be detrimental to most young guys.  Of course, Lou could probably play better D if he made the effort instead of good-timing.

In any case, Lou is on record that that strip club is his favorite restaurant (really).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 26, 2020, 01:33:53 PM
I think this is just sloppy thinking/writing from Yahoo Sports:

Quote
As a basketball coach and mind, Thibodeau’s compelling, and the franchises he left have been messes since his departure. But can he compel players who aren’t natural grinders to play hard every night? Can he tap into the talents of players who need to be inspired and understood? Can Thibodeau meet players where they are, as opposed to making them come to him?

Seems to me that RJB, Randle and Franc are all grinders.  Taj too.
Mitch plays hard.  Payton and Portis are aggressive.
I think it's more getting our guys to play smart, which is a harder task.
And we need more talent and more cohesion.  And more commitment to defense.
I assume Thibs was mostly tapped to improve the chemistry, develop team cohesiveness and get the D up to snuff.
Title: Re: Taj Gibson
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 26, 2020, 06:40:43 PM
Quote from: Kam on July 26, 2020, 12:32:20 AM
I think (just my opinion) we just guaranteed his option with the Thibs signing. 
Thibs needs people familiar with his ways.
Mitch stays 2nd unit.

This would be not so wise.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 26, 2020, 06:44:02 PM
The Knix hand out their usual 5 year deal (even Derek Fisher got one).  That's just Dolanbucks, but I guess if you're wasting his money, Dolan is gonna want a say now and then.


Right

If he's good he cant up and leave.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 26, 2020, 06:45:40 PM
Wonder how Thibs changes our draft strategy.  We certainly still need a PG and outside shooting.  I guess Obi T will not be a Knick.  Perhaps Okongwu becomes more attractive. A Bam Adebayo type inside force.


Really?

I doubt it but will sure be watching
Title: Re: Taj Gibson
Post by: Kam on July 26, 2020, 07:05:47 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 26, 2020, 06:40:43 PM
Quote from: Kam on July 26, 2020, 12:32:20 AM
I think (just my opinion) we just guaranteed his option with the Thibs signing. 
Thibs needs people familiar with his ways.
Mitch stays 2nd unit.

This would be not so wise.

Mitch will have his chance to win the job eventually. 
Miller started Taj.  Thibs knows Taj. Taj knows Thibs defense and can be the QB of the defense.
When Mitch is ready he starts.  Taj still a lap ahead in terms of familiarity and continuity, not to mention keeping Mitch out of foul trouble.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 26, 2020, 07:35:57 PM
Robinson fouled out of SIX  of the first 26 contests

- and ONE of his final 34
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 26, 2020, 09:12:19 PM
Hope we resign this guy.

http://moeharkless.com/ (http://moeharkless.com/)
Title: Over/Under 200 wins for Thibs
Post by: Kam on July 27, 2020, 03:20:03 AM
He owns a .589 lifetime win %
If he coaches the full five year term that’s 410 games
But Knick coaches typically have short life spans

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 27, 2020, 04:52:58 AM
Expect that W% to drop significantly.
Rose, Deng, Noah, Boozer was a nice core.
KAT, Wiggins, Butler had promise.
We don't have anyone comparable. . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 27, 2020, 10:15:24 AM
Atkinson was my top choice, but Thibs is also good for building a culture and getting accountability.  Probably our best head coach in a long time.  Fish and Hornacek were kneecapped by Phil.  Woodson was pretty solid except for his infuriating switch-everything defense, which we never had the personnel for.  D'ant and Larry Brown are good coaches who just didn't work out in NYKland.  It's kind of fitting that Thibs harks back to the JVG days.

Still it's going to take better and more cohesive talent for the Knix to get anywhere.  Hopefully Thibs can a significant difference until we improve our roster.

I like MoHawk, but if we have money for just one of Taj/Hark, it's likely to be the ex-Bully.
A big question is if Randle stays.  Thibs had Boozer for a number of seasons.
We need to get outside shooting from somewhere.  And a starting PG.
Hopefully the draft gets us something tasty to build on.

I'll assume Portis is gone.
Be interesting to see how things go with Knox, Dot, and Jr. Smith.
Maybe Thibs can get Smith to focus.  I always thought he could be a Dennis Shroeder type, with a dash of non-alcoholic Steve Francis.  Would at least be good to raise the trade value of Knox and Jr. Smith, if possible.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on July 27, 2020, 11:17:25 AM
Can definitely be our best coach since Fish, I'm excited, though it's unimaginably far away til we see anything. I don't think it's been fully appreciated how disadvantaged the left-out teams are going forward into next season. They'll have gone one hell of a long time without meaningful action.

Meanwhile, MLB is really f'd. NBA approach much better, we'll see how it works out.

https://www.nj.com/yankees/2020/07/mlb-season-in-jeopardy-after-coronavirus-outbreak-on-marlins-yankees-take-precautions-in-philadelphia.html (https://www.nj.com/yankees/2020/07/mlb-season-in-jeopardy-after-coronavirus-outbreak-on-marlins-yankees-take-precautions-in-philadelphia.html)

https://theathletic.com/1954316/2020/07/26/why-did-the-marlins-play-baseball-on-sunday/ (https://theathletic.com/1954316/2020/07/26/why-did-the-marlins-play-baseball-on-sunday/)

Meanwhile, Adam Silver doesn't play.

Kristaps Porzingis will miss today’s scrimmage and quarantine for one day after missing daily COVID-19 test

And knows that more than anything else, the future success of the league and a whole lot more depends of the removal of the David Fizdale of Presidents from office:

https://thehill.com/homenews/media/508693-nba-commissioner-silver-gave-maximum-contribution-to-biden-campaign (https://thehill.com/homenews/media/508693-nba-commissioner-silver-gave-maximum-contribution-to-biden-campaign)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 27, 2020, 11:52:58 AM
CBA playoffs begin in China July 30.
They're going to allow fans at 35% capacity.
Reportedly medical personnel and police and others on the viral frontlines will be offered tickets first.

Movie theaters opened last week after 6 months of closure, also with a 35% limit.
So China gradually allowing indoor crowds again.
Likely after 2 or 3 weeks, they'll assess and if no outbreaks, they'll expand to 50% or more.
A gradual step-by-step approach to reopening when there's no longer community transmission.
Actual responsible and effective gov't management of the epidemic to protect people's health.  What a radical concept ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 27, 2020, 12:02:25 PM
If its the same money I give it to Harkless over Gibson
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 27, 2020, 01:01:34 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 27, 2020, 12:02:25 PM
If its the same money I give it to Harkless over Gibson

Taj signed for $9.5M, but just $1M guaranteed.  Could waive him and re-sign him, if we needed to free up an extra $2M (if he'd go for that).  I think Hark could be resigned for $7M or so.

Hoopshype has a redraft of the 2007 (Oden/Durant) draft.
And they put the Mayor Wil Chandler 7th, just behind Thad Young.
Not bad for a guy picked #23.
I recall leading up to the draft there were snickers that Chandler would be an Isiah type pick, an athlete more than a player.  Turned out a good pick in a weak draft.   And Isiah was usually a good drafter (except for that Balkman/Mardy fiasco).
Title: Wagging ur tail?
Post by: carlos123 on July 27, 2020, 01:10:36 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on July 27, 2020, 11:17:25 AM
Can definitely be our best coach since Fish, I'm excited,


Meanwhile, Adam Silver ...

...knows that more than anything else, the future success of the league and a whole lot more depends of the removal of the David Fizdale of Presidents from office:

Les, u my doggie, but I disagree on Thibs. Wrong coach for a team rebuilding with yute. I just want to be on record predicting yet another failure.

And I have to defend Fizzie here. Sure, he was a bad coach and a bullshitter. But I don’t think he’s a sociopath.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on July 27, 2020, 04:51:30 PM
alright, alright, you right...

meanwhile, as for the healthy-young-athletes-need-not-worry theory promoted by the head-up-the-rectum buttkiidstoopidtm crowd...

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/red-sox-pitcher-eduardo-rodriguez-confirms-hes-dealing-with-heart-issue-stemming-from-covid-19-infection/ (https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/red-sox-pitcher-eduardo-rodriguez-confirms-hes-dealing-with-heart-issue-stemming-from-covid-19-infection/)

that's what killed my college roommate at age 24 while on a rowing machine, fwiw.

and Herman Cain, who caught covid at Donald's Tulsa death rally? He's now on oxygen....thanks Donald!

https://thehill.com/homenews/news/509244-herman-cain-undergoing-oxygen-treatment-in-hospital-after-coronavirus-diagnosis (https://thehill.com/homenews/news/509244-herman-cain-undergoing-oxygen-treatment-in-hospital-after-coronavirus-diagnosis)

**** oh...last call on the antifa shit turd that rolled out of kiid's rancid maw, lol...

A new database of nearly 900 politically motivated attacks and plots in the United States since 1994 includes just one attack staged by an anti-fascist that led to fatalities. In that case, the single person killed was the perpetrator.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/27/us-rightwing-extremists-attacks-deaths-database-leftwing-antifa?CMP=share_btn_tw (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/27/us-rightwing-extremists-attacks-deaths-database-leftwing-antifa?CMP=share_btn_tw)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on July 27, 2020, 05:32:53 PM
lmfao....

Epidemiologist calls MLB’s possible plan for Marlins coronavirus outbreak ‘absolutely insane'

https://www.nj.com/yankees/2020/07/epidemiologist-calls-mlbs-possible-plan-for-marlins-coronavirus-outbreak-absolutely-insane.html (https://www.nj.com/yankees/2020/07/epidemiologist-calls-mlbs-possible-plan-for-marlins-coronavirus-outbreak-absolutely-insane.html)

“This is, if possible, the literal stupidest possible plan,” Binney tweeted. “You have a raging outbreak, anyone in the Marlins traveling party could be infected regardless of how their tests come back. So by all means, just bring that on the road to Baltimore!”

Binney added in another tweet that Maryland Gov. Larry Hogan should “dispatch the state patrol to stop the Marlins bus at the state border” if they attempt the plan
Title: Word > Turd
Post by: chipstern on July 27, 2020, 06:43:05 PM
buttkiidstoopidtm
Title: Re: Over/Under 200 wins for Thibs
Post by: Kam on July 27, 2020, 07:45:57 PM
Quote from: Kam on July 27, 2020, 03:20:03 AM
He owns a .589 lifetime win %
If he coaches the full five year term that’s 410 games
But Knick coaches typically have short life spans

So are you going over or under 200 wins?

I'll take the under.
Title: Re: Word > Turd
Post by: carlos123 on July 27, 2020, 08:03:44 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 27, 2020, 06:43:05 PM
buttkiidstoopidtm

Please be nice to poor Chico 👦

chiconaïvetm
Title: Re: Over/Under 200 wins for Thibs
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 27, 2020, 08:29:57 PM
Quote from: Kam on July 27, 2020, 07:45:57 PM
Quote from: Kam on July 27, 2020, 03:20:03 AM
He owns a .589 lifetime win %
If he coaches the full five year term that’s 410 games
But Knick coaches typically have short life spans

So are you going over or under 200 wins?

I'll take the under.

over yep
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on July 28, 2020, 10:10:55 AM
well.... since only 4 out of some 30 Knick coaches have ever managed 200 W's, I think I have to shoulder up to Kam.

**** I flip to the other side if Dolan dies or is relieved of his duties in the next 3 years. Means I gotta shoulder up to buttstoopid. Means I'll need a better mask. Anybody got a N-900000000000000000000000?
Title: Dolan
Post by: carlos123 on July 28, 2020, 12:53:20 PM
Les, don’t you worry about Dolan.

We’re in hoops hell and he’s the main devil. He ain’t never gonna die or be relieved of his ownership. We will all die before he does and the Knocks will forever be irrelevant.

👿 🏀 😈
Title: ya just can't get more buttkiidstupid, lol, scientifically impossible
Post by: lesterluv on July 28, 2020, 01:25:07 PM
Once again, Carlos, you're completely correct.

I did have slightly raised hopes when Dolan caught the Rona. Figured he was probably following the Presidential recommendations (bleach shots, hydroxycloroquine, UV flashlight up your ass) and we had a shot. No such luck.

Trump's latest medical recommendations, btw, come from a doc who is truly worried about:

Demon Sperm & Alien DNA

https://www.thedailybeast.com/stella-immanuel-trumps-new-covid-doctor-believes-in-alien-dna-demon-sperm-and-hydroxychloroquine (https://www.thedailybeast.com/stella-immanuel-trumps-new-covid-doctor-believes-in-alien-dna-demon-sperm-and-hydroxychloroquine)

lmao, not f'ing with you, can't make this shit up, just can't.....surely a candidate for surgeon general....buttkiidstoopidtm picked the over? f'yeah I got the under, talk about a lock!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on July 28, 2020, 01:42:19 PM
demonsperm

just say that to yourself



*thank god homeless people are reportedly safe from the latest presidential health advice.

**otherwise there would be alien dna hotspots popping up in every major urban area.

*** meanwhile, the Nationals say thanks really, but no thanks to a Florida trip

https://www.si.com/mlb/2020/07/28/washington-nationals-miami-marlins-coronavirus (https://www.si.com/mlb/2020/07/28/washington-nationals-miami-marlins-coronavirus)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on July 28, 2020, 02:18:10 PM
demonsperm
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 28, 2020, 02:33:21 PM
Article touting Okongwu:
https://sports.yahoo.com/onyeka-okongwu-great-nba-draft-165541923.html
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 28, 2020, 02:38:20 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on July 28, 2020, 10:10:55 AM
well.... since only 4 out of some 30 Knick coaches have ever managed 200 W's, I think I have to shoulder up to Kam.

**** I flip to the other side if Dolan dies or is relieved of his duties in the next 3 years. Means I gotta shoulder up to buttstoopid. Means I'll need a better mask. Anybody got a N-900000000000000000000000?

Lapchick
Holzman
Riley
Van Gundy
Thibodeau

Nice list
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on July 28, 2020, 02:56:07 PM
Love to see it happen, for sure. The condition stands tho.
Title: I'll See Your Joke And Raise It....
Post by: chipstern on July 28, 2020, 04:15:38 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on July 28, 2020, 02:18:10 PM
demonsperm

Demon Semen

The motility of my own sanctified sperm, is fecund to none. 
Title: Thoughts & Prayers
Post by: chipstern on July 28, 2020, 04:21:47 PM
https://www.nme.com/news/music/biz-markie-in-hospital-battling-serious-illness-triggered-by-type-2-diabetes-2715245 (https://www.nme.com/news/music/biz-markie-in-hospital-battling-serious-illness-triggered-by-type-2-diabetes-2715245)

Our Erstwhile ELBA Alumni, BIZ MARKIE, is quite ill. 

Wish there were more we could send out to Marcel Theo Hall [April 8, 1964] than...LOVE. 

(https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/378800000376241775/343b2989cbf4625ee3290b8bb3e5df5e.jpeg)

It will have to do. 

Stay strong. 

Title: Make the Music With Your Mouth, Biz.
Post by: lesterluv on July 28, 2020, 09:37:13 PM
I most certainly will send mine.

Not a lot of artists out there who have granted me more unadulterated pleasure.

Nobody beats him. Hope he beats this!

Title: Re: I'll See Your Joke And Raise It....
Post by: facilitatorn on July 28, 2020, 09:54:45 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 28, 2020, 04:15:38 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on July 28, 2020, 02:18:10 PM
demonsperm

Demon Semen

The motility of my own sanctified sperm, is fecund to none. 

Totally swipe right.
Title: Re: Thoughts & Prayers
Post by: facilitatorn on July 28, 2020, 09:55:44 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 28, 2020, 04:21:47 PM
https://www.nme.com/news/music/biz-markie-in-hospital-battling-serious-illness-triggered-by-type-2-diabetes-2715245 (https://www.nme.com/news/music/biz-markie-in-hospital-battling-serious-illness-triggered-by-type-2-diabetes-2715245)

Our Erstwhile ELBA Alumni, BIZ MARKIE, is quite ill. 

Wish there were more we could send out to Marcel Theo Hall [April 8, 1964] than...LOVE. 

(https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/378800000376241775/343b2989cbf4625ee3290b8bb3e5df5e.jpeg)

It will have to do. 

Stay strong.

Aw man. He lives in my shuffle and my heart.
Title: Biz
Post by: carlos123 on July 28, 2020, 10:26:55 PM
I had no idea Biz Markie was our Biz.

Get well soon!!!
Title: Fac
Post by: carlos123 on July 28, 2020, 10:28:08 PM
Fac, nice pic! You always find the best

(https://scontent-bos3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/109196506_10163984035385313_5059307241058934606_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=mnrvtxItibQAX-n4YyM&_nc_ht=scontent-bos3-1.xx&oh=fab71caf479bd0656b0b72263615923b&oe=5F480B87)
Title: Re: Fac
Post by: chipstern on July 28, 2020, 10:40:55 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on July 28, 2020, 10:28:08 PM
Fac, nice pic! You always find the best

(https://scontent-bos3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/109196506_10163984035385313_5059307241058934606_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=mnrvtxItibQAX-n4YyM&_nc_ht=scontent-bos3-1.xx&oh=fab71caf479bd0656b0b72263615923b&oe=5F480B87)

"Mr. President, the woman that you said is a great doctor in that video that you retweeted last night said masks don’t work and there is a cure for COVID-19, both of which health experts say is not true. She’s also made videos saying that doctors make medicine using DNA from aliens, and that they’re trying to create a vaccine to make you immune from becoming religious."

(https://images.theweek.com/sites/default/files/styles/tw_image_9_4/public/trumpthemessiah.jpg?itok=fn09eNJG&resize=1260x560)
Title: Re: Fac
Post by: facilitatorn on July 28, 2020, 11:25:50 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on July 28, 2020, 10:28:08 PM
Fac, nice pic! You always find the best

(https://scontent-bos3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/109196506_10163984035385313_5059307241058934606_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=mnrvtxItibQAX-n4YyM&_nc_ht=scontent-bos3-1.xx&oh=fab71caf479bd0656b0b72263615923b&oe=5F480B87)

Got it from Josh over on the trump admin forum. Had to put it on the profile.
Title: Re: Fac
Post by: carlos123 on July 29, 2020, 12:24:35 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 28, 2020, 11:25:50 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on July 28, 2020, 10:28:08 PM
Fac, nice pic! You always find the best

(https://scontent-bos3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/109196506_10163984035385313_5059307241058934606_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=mnrvtxItibQAX-n4YyM&_nc_ht=scontent-bos3-1.xx&oh=fab71caf479bd0656b0b72263615923b&oe=5F480B87)

Got it from Josh over on the trump admin forum. Had to put it on the profile.

You mean, that forum is not DOMINATED by Chico👦tm, like when I visited?

Q. “Is there a Godwin’s Law for Caligula and Nero?”

A. Don’t forget there was Claudius in between, sorta like our Uncle Joe. Hope there won’t be a Nero after our Caligula and Joe.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on July 29, 2020, 12:30:38 AM
demon sperm

heh
Title: Careful!!!
Post by: carlos123 on July 29, 2020, 12:32:38 AM
Nice picture Chip!

(https://images.theweek.com/sites/default/files/styles/tw_image_9_4/public/trumpthemessiah.jpg?itok=fn09eNJG&resize=1260x560)

But CAREFUL!!!

The GOP may decide to use it to claim 100.99% of the evangelical vote, and there are a whole lotta them.
Title: Re: Fac
Post by: facilitatorn on July 29, 2020, 01:29:00 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on July 29, 2020, 12:24:35 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 28, 2020, 11:25:50 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on July 28, 2020, 10:28:08 PM
Fac, nice pic! You always find the best

(https://scontent-bos3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/109196506_10163984035385313_5059307241058934606_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=mnrvtxItibQAX-n4YyM&_nc_ht=scontent-bos3-1.xx&oh=fab71caf479bd0656b0b72263615923b&oe=5F480B87)

Got it from Josh over on the trump admin forum. Had to put it on the profile.

You mean, that forum is not DOMINATED by Chico👦tm, like when I visited?

Q. “Is there a Godwin’s Law for Caligula and Nero?”

A. Don’t forget there was Claudius in between, sorta like our Uncle Joe. Hope there won’t be a Nero after our Caligula and Joe.

Obama was our Claudius. That makes Bush Caligula (the incest was with his father’s advisors) with the other infernal moron fiddling while the whole place burns.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 29, 2020, 01:30:46 AM
I like Deni in the draft even more now with Thibs coaching, on the principle that every fifth or sixth post should be Knicks related.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 29, 2020, 04:34:46 AM
Even if the Knix pick 6th, Okongwu, Deni, Halliburton are interesting pieces. 
We need talent more than anything.  All should be legit starters.  See who has the extra gear or is highly motivated.  Okongwu by most accounts works hard.  Deni a swiss-knife type.  TyH an outside sniper (reminds me of Rodney Hood).

ODH is probably my ranking, with the caveat that I don't know much about these yute at all.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 29, 2020, 07:19:07 AM
Get well, Biz . . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 29, 2020, 08:18:19 AM

Haliburton

But he has a long, slow and low release. His feet are positioned awkwardly. The mechanics are not ideal, and this really shows up when Haliburton is forced to shoot off of the dribble, where he ranked in the 35th percentile nationally this past season at 0.684 PPP. That’s a drastic difference, and it’s exacerbated by the fact that Haliburton can struggle to consistently turn the corner against good defenders. When you can’t beat a man, you’re forced to shoot a midrange pull-up, often contested. That’s a suboptimal outcome for any player on any possession, let alone a guy that shoots 49 percent off the catch and 28 percent off the dribble.

The thing is, the length is there for Haliburton. He has long strides. He has the reach to finish around a shotblocker. He is bouncier around the rim than he gets credit for. But if he had struggles getting past defenders at the college level it’s not a good indicator of his ability to get to the rim moving up to the pros.

https://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2020/07/16/2020-nba-draft-early-entry-decisions/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 29, 2020, 01:33:25 PM
http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2020/7/29/21346183/former-knick-amare-stoudemire-and-top-prospect-deni-avdija-won-the-israeli-league-championship (http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2020/7/29/21346183/former-knick-amare-stoudemire-and-top-prospect-deni-avdija-won-the-israeli-league-championship)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 29, 2020, 03:15:59 PM
Quote
The Sacramento Kings' Richaun Holmes also landed back in quarantine after he left the bubble to pick-up a delivery of take-out food.

What's been common in China the past few months is to set up drop points for food and other deliveries just outside a gated area.  For example, hospitals and universities have set up some large shelving units to handle packages.

That way folks don't need to interact with the delivery people and the delivery don't need to go into the campus area.
Title: Michael Porter
Post by: chipstern on July 29, 2020, 05:30:01 PM
Great outside shooter, but a dim witted motherfucker. 

Not regretting passing on him in the least. 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/29/sport/michael-porter-jr-coronavirus-nba-basketball-spt-intl/index.html?fbclid=IwAR2wgEdaTun-5Xk1CpX6_LJnIwLF3Sbz-EzacbXX5huMn7eQlcR9-D6CAaY (https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/29/sport/michael-porter-jr-coronavirus-nba-basketball-spt-intl/index.html?fbclid=IwAR2wgEdaTun-5Xk1CpX6_LJnIwLF3Sbz-EzacbXX5huMn7eQlcR9-D6CAaY)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 29, 2020, 07:33:33 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 29, 2020, 03:15:59 PM
Quote
The Sacramento Kings' Richaun Holmes also landed back in quarantine after he left the bubble to pick-up a delivery of take-out food.

What's been common in China the past few months is to set up drop points for food and other deliveries just outside a gated area.  For example, hospitals and universities have set up some large shelving units to handle packages.

That way folks don't need to interact with the delivery people and the delivery don't need to go into the campus area.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 29, 2020, 09:13:06 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 29, 2020, 03:15:59 PM
Quote
The Sacramento Kings' Richaun Holmes also landed back in quarantine after he left the bubble to pick-up a delivery of take-out food.

What's been common in China the past few months is to set up drop points for food and other deliveries just outside a gated area.  For example, hospitals and universities have set up some large shelving units to handle packages.

That way folks don't need to interact with the delivery people and the delivery don't need to go into the campus area.


Bonk!
Title: Re: Michael Porter
Post by: Kam on July 29, 2020, 10:28:34 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 29, 2020, 05:30:01 PM
Great outside shooter, but a dim witted motherfucker. 

Not regretting passing on him in the least. 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/29/sport/michael-porter-jr-coronavirus-nba-basketball-spt-intl/index.html?fbclid=IwAR2wgEdaTun-5Xk1CpX6_LJnIwLF3Sbz-EzacbXX5huMn7eQlcR9-D6CAaY (https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/29/sport/michael-porter-jr-coronavirus-nba-basketball-spt-intl/index.html?fbclid=IwAR2wgEdaTun-5Xk1CpX6_LJnIwLF3Sbz-EzacbXX5huMn7eQlcR9-D6CAaY)

He's a little nuts.  Seems like an anti-vaxxer or at least from an anti-vaxx family. 

Quote
Porter, who played college basketball at Missouri, went on to say that he had never been vaccinated.
However, according to the school's website, students born after 1956 are required to "comply with the two-dose MMR Immunization Policy."
"I've never been vaccinated in my life. I've never had any shots or anything like that. So it could get crazy. But it's definitely behind everything that's going on right now and all you could do is sit back and watch what's going on.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 30, 2020, 02:58:55 PM
Thibs has the start of a staff.

http://www.si.com/nba/knicks/news/woodson-reportedly-assistant (http://www.si.com/nba/knicks/news/woodson-reportedly-assistant)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 30, 2020, 03:58:58 PM
heh

No fucking way Miller stays now
Title: Re: The joint chiefs?
Post by: Kam on July 30, 2020, 04:31:37 PM
Quote from: Kam on July 25, 2020, 08:38:04 PM
(https://preview.redd.it/q67tu0j5m1d51.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=e85855f53f7cfd89015a0dfa935cdc8f0bba1781)

Offense                                               Defense                                          Player Development

BANG! 
Title: Ding Dong He Went, He Got Spit On, He's Dead
Post by: lesterluv on July 30, 2020, 05:05:30 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/30/us/politics/herman-cain-dead.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/30/us/politics/herman-cain-dead.html)

What a fucking moron.

Heh

I shed absolutely no tears. Saving 'em for the other 150k on the Donald's check.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 30, 2020, 05:24:11 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 30, 2020, 03:58:58 PM
heh

No fucking way Miller stays now

QuackQuack
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 30, 2020, 06:07:59 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 30, 2020, 05:24:11 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 30, 2020, 03:58:58 PM
heh

No fucking way Miller stays now

QuackQuack

Kiid thinks like an infected cannibal rat and assumes everyone else does too.

I hope Thibs & Rose recognize Miller’s coaching chops and that Thibs, Mike, and Woody can envision a productive way to work together, and that some team like the Bulls doesn’t want to make Miller their head coach.

Thibs, Woody, and Miller would be a hell of a core of a staff.
Title: TT & Rose
Post by: chipstern on July 30, 2020, 08:24:11 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 30, 2020, 06:07:59 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 30, 2020, 05:24:11 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 30, 2020, 03:58:58 PM
heh

No fucking way Miller stays now

QuackQuack

Kiid thinks like an infected cannibal rat and assumes everyone else does too.

I hope Thibs & Rose recognize Miller’s coaching chops and that Thibs, Mike, and Woody can envision a productive way to work together, and that some team like the Bulls doesn’t want to make Miller their head coach.

Thibs, Woody, and Miller would be a hell of a core of a staff.

I would hope that some new young blood gets a look see, though I suspect the puppies they interviewed from Dallas and San Antonio and Phoenix (?) would view being an assistant in NYC as a side move, when a head coaching opening might just as soon come open.

I thought Royal Ivey was a good man.  Might the Knicks not consider some of Miller's people? 

TT needs to find a Monty Williams or two.  Might Rod Strickland get a sniff.  God knows, be nice to have someone with a winning PG mentality.  God knows if we keep Dennis he could use a for real mentor.  I see some similarities in their games. 

As per Kentucky AC Kenny Payne, if the motivation is that he might have an in with Anthony Davis, well, that is kind of lame. 

PS: I am NOT a Mike Woodson enthusiast.  His 18-6 after D'Antoni left?  Okay.  The 54 win season?  PG JASON KIDD.  I didn't like the way he treated certain players, resorted to Hero Ball with Melo, or force fed his lame defensive switching schemes.  But I could be loud wrong.  I am happy with the TT hire, and am open minded about Rose's new team of capologists and super scouts. 

PPPS: Would like to think that Mitchell, Frank and Kenny Wooten would come of age under TT given their defensive potential.  And what of  RJ and KK and Brazdeikis and Dennis?   As for vets?  Randle and Taj and Bullock seem likely...Dotson and Harkless defensive cats if the price is right.  That's 12 right there, so as much as I like Portis and Elfrid, I think they and Ellington are goners. we move on.  Melo?  There's a thought, if he is willing to channel his inner Jamal Crawford and be a sixth man.  Plus our two #1 picks?  Theo Pinson and Jared Harper.  Trader Vics could see some horse trading.  Kind of crowded now, and we still are kind of top tier talent challenged. 

PPPS: Anyway, Jazz V. Pelicans.  Hoops.  Damn.  Hope no one gets sick. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on July 30, 2020, 09:46:23 PM
Mike Woodson was a decent coach.  Yeah we had Jason Kidd but it was Kidd on his last legs and he wasn't a full time player anymore.  He was the coach of a historically good 3pt focused offense for us.  His biggest problem was the switching everything defense that teams would always exploit until they found a mismatch.   If Woodson had a Thibs perhaps we would've beaten a team like Indiana and gotten to square off against the Miami Heat in the Eastern Finals a time or two.

Now Thibs has a Woodson.  And hopefully a Miller who will bring some continuity alongside him to the team.  We could've gone the Kenny Atkinson route and I would've been fine with that.  I'm glad we didn't go the Kidd route.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 30, 2020, 09:47:38 PM
heh

Elfrid stays, unless

a)  another vet pg is signed

b)  we draft a good enough lead guard that is given the keys

Thibs aint here to fuck around with 3rd and 4th chance guys
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on July 30, 2020, 10:04:47 PM
lol, lol, lol.

that's Elfrid by very definition.

Orlando trades him.
Suns decline to resign him.
Pelicans decline to resign him.
Knix. Cause nobody better will take their $$$.
Title: I look at Elfrid through a Ntilikina prism
Post by: Kam on July 30, 2020, 10:29:33 PM
Elfrid is a known quantity.  A decent backup and a below average starter.  On the other hand Frank Ntilikina has a chance to start with Thibs (for defense) and he had Leon Rose as an agent until the start of last season.  In other words Frank could easily have the backing of the two most important men in the brain trust.   Coupled with the oft-stated desire of pumping up Dennis Smith's confidence (and trade value) I could envision a scenario where Elfrid is not invited back.

That calculus changes if the brain trust sees Frank as something other than a potential starting PG.     So really, Elfrid is a domino that will fall the way Frank falls.   That's why it will be useful for the Knicks to play some of their own bubble games and get an early read on next season's lineup.
Title: Re: The joint chiefs?
Post by: carlos123 on July 30, 2020, 10:43:51 PM
Quote from: Kam on July 30, 2020, 04:31:37 PM
Quote from: Kam on July 25, 2020, 08:38:04 PM
(https://preview.redd.it/q67tu0j5m1d51.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=e85855f53f7cfd89015a0dfa935cdc8f0bba1781)

Offense                                               Defense                                          Player Development

BANG!

Hope Miller is hired as head coach somewhere. Then I'll have a team to root for.

Thibs: wrong for this team.
Woodson's offense: son, give it to Melo.

PS. I plan to keep on posting here as the only not-a-fan of Thibs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on July 30, 2020, 11:03:34 PM
Give Thibs a chance.
Title: Re: The joint chiefs?
Post by: chipstern on July 30, 2020, 11:17:09 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on July 30, 2020, 10:43:51 PM
Quote from: Kam on July 30, 2020, 04:31:37 PM
Quote from: Kam on July 25, 2020, 08:38:04 PM
(https://preview.redd.it/q67tu0j5m1d51.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=e85855f53f7cfd89015a0dfa935cdc8f0bba1781)

Offense                                               Defense                                          Player Development

BANG!

Hope Miller is hired as head coach somewhere. Then I'll have a team to root for.

Thibs: wrong for this team.
Woodson's offense: son, give it to Melo.

PS. I plan to keep on posting here as the only not-a-fan of Thibs.

Swell. 

YOU DON'T LIKE Thibs.

A very learned point of view. 

Knock yourself out. 
Title: Thibs
Post by: carlos123 on July 30, 2020, 11:54:20 PM
Chip, as I stated before, I don’t like Thibs FOR THIS TEAM. Nothing personal for or against the fella.

Short rotations and a preference for playing vets is probably not what THIS TEAM needs.

PS. No knocking myself out, I hope you don’t mind terribly.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 31, 2020, 12:17:06 AM
I don’t care what they say. I don’t care what other people say about them. I’m waiting to see what they do.

If we do grab Miller, I will feel good that three people have the experience and chops to get on the same page so game planning, team principles, fitness, scheduling, and development can be synchronized and delegated and compartmentalized so the head and the two associates can tell anyone what they are to be doing and why in context at any time.

There are still probably 4 or 5 spots on the bench and no less than 3.

I have no problem with holdovers from the assistants or surprising new faces. I just don’t want guys  who have a history of making counterproductive waves in prior organizations.

To use a west coast metaphor, MSG is a wild fire zone and human frailty is almost always a lit match.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on July 31, 2020, 12:17:15 AM
kudos to the players, the league, Silver for overcoming DeSantis & Donald & bringing the game back the right way..fun tonight
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on July 31, 2020, 10:30:46 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on July 31, 2020, 12:17:15 AM
kudos to the players, the league, Silver for overcoming DeSantis & Donald & bringing the game back the right way..fun tonight

Bingo-I only watched the last qtr of the LA v LA  game but what I saw was very watchable.

lets hope the bubble doesn't burst.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on July 31, 2020, 10:55:29 AM
I watched the NBA games flipping back and forth between the Yankees game.  Both so enjoyable to me.  It felt about as close to "normal" as we're going to get I guess.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on July 31, 2020, 12:36:40 PM
Yup, really fun. Was like, wow, I'm watching Lebron d'up Kawhi, cool!

** seeing a massive F.U. delivered to everything the Donald stands for, icing on the cake

*** not having to watch D. Smith Jr. fumble away a 10 pt lead in 2 minutes for at least 6 months will probably turn out to be an additional blessing.
Title: Next up...the St. Louis Cardinals
Post by: lesterluv on July 31, 2020, 01:28:30 PM
The NBA of course, stands in complete contrast with MLB.

Two Cardinals just tested positive.

Absolutely no coincidence that Missouri (currently leading the whole nation in rate of transmission) is governed by a clown who makes DeSantis looks sane. The state is just erupting in virus.

It's sad that the summer baseball season is really at risk now. Yank, sadly I wouldn't Bank on getting to watch the whole "season."

But it's sadder that 100k+ have died, and continue to die, for absolutely no reason at all except for what was that..greatest leader ever lol, man, Kiid dropped that siggy like hot lava rocks and shut his trap on the subject tighter than a flea's ass.

*** lol, the little bitch's trap is almost as tight as Herman Cain's --- but not quite
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 31, 2020, 03:45:54 PM
I really liked Thibs’ talk with Pitto on MSG. He knew the team’s bet rating off hand and said that was the best evidence there was tremendous amounts of work to do. When asked what first he said contact players to set the work ethic and parameters needed to achieve the goal.

This makes complete sense and always has.

Also, either in that or his intro presser, Thibs finally defined developmental coach as one who gets on the floor and can push players. Those who have and apply sufficient fitness along with theory and technique to make NBA level players continue to grow.

Let’s see what that turns into down the line.
Title: Re: Next up...the St. Louis Cardinals
Post by: chipstern on July 31, 2020, 06:09:55 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on July 31, 2020, 01:28:30 PM
The NBA of course, stands in complete contrast with MLB.

Two Cardinals just tested positive.

Absolutely no coincidence that Missouri (currently leading the whole nation in rate of transmission) is governed by a clown who makes DeSantis looks sane. The state is just erupting in virus.

It's sad that the summer baseball season is really at risk now. Yank, sadly I wouldn't Bank on getting to watch the whole "season."

But it's sadder that 100k+ have died, and continue to die, for absolutely no reason at all except for what was that..greatest leader ever lol, man, Kiid dropped that siggy like hot lava rocks and shut his trap on the subject tighter than a flea's ass.

*** lol, the little bitch's trap is almost as tight as Herman Cain's --- but not quite

Wasn't their governor the troll who said kids will go to school, and if they get sick, they'll go home. 

GENIUS.  And so humane and sensitive too boot. 
Title: Consistent & Coherent
Post by: chipstern on July 31, 2020, 06:22:37 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 31, 2020, 03:45:54 PM
I really liked Thibs’ talk with Pitto on MSG. He knew the team’s bet rating off hand and said that was the best evidence there was tremendous amounts of work to do. When asked what first he said contact players to set the work ethic and parameters needed to achieve the goal.

This makes complete sense and always has.

Also, either in that or his intro presser, Thibs finally defined developmental coach as one who gets on the floor and can push players. Those who have and apply sufficient fitness along with theory and technique to make NBA level players continue to grow.

Let’s see what that turns into down the line.

A Teacher NOT A Preacher. 

Has a proven track record of developing a coherent team concept. 

TT's teams play D. 

Carlos...you just sort of re-fry those beans about playing vets too many minutes. 

In Minny, besides getting them to their one playoff appearance in what, a decade, he actually brought KAT's minutes...DOWN from around 38 to 33. 

As for development? 

That word COHERENCE comes up again and again. 

I'm on record as liking Fizz, so my cred is null and void, but in terms of his teaching moments? 

He gave Knox plenty of minutes, but did not raise the bar. 

The manner in which he simply dumped on Kanter was not productive.   

Tossing RJ out as the PG in game one.  Oooops, back to the drawing board. 

TT will NOTBE TANKING. 

And the likelihood of someone like Frank having consistent minutes and a consistent role increases exponentially, which can only speed his development. 

To wit. 

Back in 1951, a young talent name of Willie Mays came up from Minneapolis to the NY GIANTS.  Had a terrible slump starting out, lost his confidence, and went to his manager, and said, Mister Leo, send me back to Minneapolis, I can't make it up here. 

DUROCHER told the young man, we brought you up there to play center field, and you are going to be out there every day. 

The rest as they say is history. 

TT.

Again, consistency and coherence. 

Who was the last coach who gave us that? 

Van Gundy?

D'Antoni?

Woodson? 

I like the hire.  TT is not just a good press conference coach.  He is a good practice coach, and a GOOD GAME COACH. 

Development?

Getting a team TO PLAY LIKE A FUCKING TEAM. 

Which oddly enough, is the mark of a coherent, consistent defensive posture. 

And who exactly was YOUR COACH, Carlos? 

We are all ears. 
Title: And who exactly was YOUR COACH, Carlos?
Post by: carlos123 on July 31, 2020, 09:39:23 PM
I said before MANY TIMES who exactly was my coach. Guess you didn't read, so I'll repeat it: MIKE MILLER.

Why? I'll also repeat some of my arguments for you:

Proved to be a very good coach FOR THIS TEAM, with immediate improvement over his predecessor, good with our yute, team played hard for him, and played as a TEAM, articulate and great with the press (yes, I think that's important in NY) and, crucially, I thought it was about time the Knicks showed SOME loyalty for a change, to someone who'd been with them and proved himself when given the opportunity. That's why I hope some other team hires him as head coach.

Quote
Carlos...you just sort of re-fry those beans about playing vets too many minutes.

In Minny, besides getting them to their one playoff appearance in what, a decade, he actually brought KAT's minutes...DOWN from around 38 to 33.

Chip, you know that argument is funny, don't you? I mean, big fucking deal, down 5 MINUTES. Besides, was KAT really a veteran at the time? Oh, and he was fired for a number of reasons. He may have have been very good in Chicago, but not really in a developing team like Minny.

Now, you like Thibs, good for you! Lets see if you still like him after one season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on July 31, 2020, 09:47:29 PM
annoying loss by the Celts- after coming from 15 down in the first 3 minutes and getting nothing from Tatum they still played well enough to get fucked by the Mickey, Minnie and Goofie
Title: Steve Mills
Post by: chipstern on July 31, 2020, 10:29:26 PM
A gift that keeps giving. 

Porzingis looking great. 

Trey Burke on fire and Timmy Hardaway with good minutes. 

And Steve got us what in return?

Two late first rounders, Dennis Smith Jr. and the cap space to sign, Ellington and Peyton and Portis, all about to transmogrify into cap space. 

Oh, well...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on July 31, 2020, 10:38:07 PM
oh my...what do they have between them, 60 of the Mavs 80+ points...sigh

is what is...Mills gets a special place in Knick hell

still joyful to be watching basketball again


*** and you know what else, when I read about it I was cynical as hell about the #BLM branding stuff, but it matters, and it's good, and when they interview D'antoni and he says #MaskUp and why, it's real too, will save some lives, make a few folks think wtf about that facebook post that got shared to them from a doctor pumping alien sperm, good league
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on July 31, 2020, 10:49:35 PM
Watching my first game of the restart (missed last nights contests).

Pleasantly surprised at all the changes in the stands.

Especially the zoom fans

 https://www.wsj.com/articles/nba-season-restart-virtual-fans-orlando-behavior-eject-button-11596120629 (https://www.wsj.com/articles/nba-season-restart-virtual-fans-orlando-behavior-eject-button-11596120629)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 01, 2020, 12:25:34 AM
A lot of nip and tuck games with close finishes. It’s good to see hoops. Hope everyone stays healthy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 01, 2020, 12:40:33 AM
Mavs wilted down the stretch.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 01, 2020, 02:14:56 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 01, 2020, 12:40:33 AM
Mavs wilted down the stretch.

The announcers were saying that's been the MAVS problem all year.

POR beat MEM in overtime to get a full game closer to the 8 spot.  Huge win for them.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 01, 2020, 04:59:27 AM
Portland can score a lot and are a lot to contend with. I don’t know about cohesion and commitment, but the talent is there right now and a good part of that is Melo.

I really like Memphis as well.

Man, we really got a lot of work to do.

It is Berman and, as Thibs noted in his intro, he’s still around, but it’s got some detailed  stuff on where things might be heading with the staff.

http://nypost.com/2020/07/31/tom-thibodeau-knicks-begin-search-for-coaching-staff/ (http://nypost.com/2020/07/31/tom-thibodeau-knicks-begin-search-for-coaching-staff/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 01, 2020, 06:59:36 AM
Wonder when a Knick will rack up 39 & 16?

As I keep saying, the KZ situation was a huge disaster, an unnecessary shot in the foot, killed our future for years.  Etc.

Last year Mavs did fine to end games as Doncic made all sorts of crazy shots.
Not surprised that couldn't be replicated.
And while KZ is a major talent, he hasn't yet developed a go-to crunch time move.
Title: Re: And who exactly was YOUR COACH, Carlos?
Post by: FWK00 on August 01, 2020, 11:49:26 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on July 31, 2020, 09:39:23 PM
I said before MANY TIMES who exactly was my coach. Guess you didn't read, so I'll repeat it: MIKE MILLER.

Why? I'll also repeat some of my arguments for you:

Proved to be a very good coach FOR THIS TEAM, with immediate improvement over his predecessor, good with our yute, team played hard for him, and played as a TEAM, articulate and great with the press (yes, I think that's important in NY) and, crucially, I thought it was about time the Knicks showed SOME loyalty for a change, to someone who'd been with them and proved himself when given the opportunity. That's why I hope some other team hires him as head coach.

Quote
Carlos...you just sort of re-fry those beans about playing vets too many minutes.

In Minny, besides getting them to their one playoff appearance in what, a decade, he actually brought KAT's minutes...DOWN from around 38 to 33.

Chip, you know that argument is funny, don't you? I mean, big fucking deal, down 5 MINUTES. Besides, was KAT really a veteran at the time? Oh, and he was fired for a number of reasons. He may have have been very good in Chicago, but not really in a developing team like Minny.

Now, you like Thibs, good for you! Lets see if you still like him after one season.

Carlos, I share your lament.  I happen to think Miller was the guy to continue developing the Knicks but I'm not at all distraught about Thibs. 

Unlike many of the Knicks critics I don't think the Knicks roster needs so much 'work' as it needs and needed maturity.  I happen to think the Knicks have a great core in Frankie, Dotson, RJ, and Mitchell. And they have plenty of choices with everyone else - either trade 'em or keep them. 

IMO, high on the trade fodder list is Randle, Smith, Knox, Portis, and Harper. And Randle being the top priority to get gone.

Now, I believe this season is going to be a hot mess.  You can't bubble your way through a season so the league will need to expand rosters just because with the G-League being more of the Legion of substitute NBA playahs.  The Knicks building a bigger coaching staff will be a good thing and having Woody and Miller available to keep a substitute unit in tact will be crucial.

I'm concerned though that this season may be a waste and with that thought in mind its crazy to trade for Chris Paul.  His shelf-life is expiring and wasting assets on signing  expensive contracts for a dicey year of play seems risky.  Better to trade for longer term assets OR draft well and use this year to stockpile a few more kids.  Two years out this will be a superteam.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 01, 2020, 01:03:12 PM
Fwk you ... crazy.

I've found that pessimism has been warranted for the last 7 years, and likely another 3 going forward.

They guys you want to keep aren't that good.  The guys you want to trade have little value now.  I assume we won't pick up Portis' option.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 01, 2020, 02:06:53 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 01, 2020, 12:40:33 AM
Mavs wilted down the stretch.

Luka is a great talent. 

Easy to forget how young he is. 

He can do SO MUCH, with such ease and grace, that he has a tendency to force things, and make some rather....ODD decisions.  This will evolve over time. 

I thought it was interesting how effective former Knick TB was at creating his own offense. 
Title: Heat Check
Post by: chipstern on August 01, 2020, 03:14:16 PM
Jocic.  WOW. 

There's the challenge for TT with Mitchell.  Robinson surely has the athleticism.  Remains to be seen if he has the requisite offensive acumen.  But surely a the potential to be a difference maker on defense. 

Porter sure has a smooth shot.  Geez Louise. 

I most definitely love the way Miami plays, the sharp shooting youngsters and tough ass role players Riley has assembled...Crowder...Andre.

I remember everyone wishing we be fishing for Jimmy Butler. 

Get it. 

Worth noting that JB ended up on the right team.  He is a Riley Man through and through. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 01, 2020, 03:47:35 PM
So who would you take, Mitch or Bol Bol?

Porter plays young, makes mistakes, is tentative at times.  Had a number of poor fouls.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 01, 2020, 03:48:03 PM
Wonder when a Knick will rack up 39 & 16?


Randle had a 35-18 this year

64 games

29  20+

8  30+

not just moving this guy for fluff
Title: Thibs won't like DSJ
Post by: Kam on August 01, 2020, 03:58:57 PM
Steve Serby: What are the ideal traits of a Tom Thibodeau basketball player?

Coach Thibs: Smart, tough, talented and driven.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 01, 2020, 05:01:48 PM
Randle nearly averaged a 20 & 10.
And yet, had lots of turnovers, couldn't make 3's.  Poor defense.
Didn't make anyone better.
Would prefer to move on, but not many teams will want him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 01, 2020, 05:45:34 PM
I'm concerned though that this season may be a waste and with that thought in mind its crazy to trade for Chris Paul. His shelf-life is expiring and wasting assets on signing  expensive contracts for a dicey year of play seems risky.  Better to trade for longer term assets OR draft well and use this year to stockpile a few more kids.  Two years out this will be a superteam.


Ridiculous
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 01, 2020, 05:46:29 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 01, 2020, 03:47:35 PM
So who would you take, Mitch or Bol Bol?

Porter plays young, makes mistakes, is tentative at times.  Had a number of poor fouls.

I would take Mamie Van Doren. 

Dull day in China, Bo?

We could have taken Bol. 

We took Brazdeikis. 
Title: Kiid On A Skid
Post by: chipstern on August 01, 2020, 05:56:59 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 01, 2020, 05:45:34 PM
I'm concerned though that this season may be a waste and with that thought in mind its crazy to trade for Chris Paul. His shelf-life is expiring and wasting assets on signing  expensive contracts for a dicey year of play seems risky.  Better to trade for longer term assets OR draft well and use this year to stockpile a few more kids.  Two years out this will be a superteam.


Ridiculous

Says you, numb nutz. 

Chris Paul still has plenty left in the tank.  Love him. 

But CP should be the final piece, not the first. 

We would have to gut what little talent we have to bring him here in a trade, to play with...WHO? 

Let's go to the Real GM Trade Checker.  NO FAs, only signed contract players. 

Julius Randle, RJ Barrett, Frank Ntilikina, Dennis Smith, Kevin Knox for Chris Paul. 

Congrats, successful trade. 

Sounds like a plan, huh? 

Of course, now GM Kiid could fill those open roster spots with more proven veterans, like Jimmer. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 01, 2020, 07:10:06 PM
You didn't really refute my assessment

I like when we agree..

Peace, Metta.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 01, 2020, 07:12:59 PM
Bill was before Iggy by the way
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 01, 2020, 07:35:55 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on August 01, 2020, 07:12:59 PM
Bill was before Iggy by the way

Bill? 
Title: Paul George
Post by: chipstern on August 01, 2020, 07:38:29 PM
Paul George. 

Man on a fucking mission. 

DAMN!

PS: I should like to think that R.J. Barrett is presently wearing his protective mask, and maintaining social distance in TT's rec room and taking copious notes ever as we speak.  This is what a big time two way, five-skill, TO TIER NBA CHAMPIONSHIP CALIBER WING looks like, young talent. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 01, 2020, 08:55:00 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on August 01, 2020, 07:12:59 PM
Bol was before Iggy by the way

my bad
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 01, 2020, 09:02:26 PM
Issuf Sanon, PG
Traded to New York (NYK) from Washington (WAS) as part of a 3-team trade: Los Angeles (LAC) traded Maurice Harkless, 2020 1st round pick, 2021 2nd round pick and 2021 1st round pick to New York (NYK); Los Angeles (LAC) traded Jerome Robinson to Washington (WAS); New York (NYK) traded Marcus Morris to Los Angeles (LAC); Washington (WAS) traded Isaiah Thomas to Los Angeles (LAC)


Looking forward to seeing this guy
Title: Clippers Trade
Post by: chipstern on August 02, 2020, 12:46:18 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 01, 2020, 09:02:26 PM
Issuf Sanon, PG
Traded to New York (NYK) from Washington (WAS) as part of a 3-team trade: Los Angeles (LAC) traded Maurice Harkless, 2020 1st round pick, 2021 2nd round pick and 2021 1st round pick to New York (NYK); Los Angeles (LAC) traded Jerome Robinson to Washington (WAS); New York (NYK) traded Marcus Morris to Los Angeles (LAC); Washington (WAS) traded Isaiah Thomas to Los Angeles (LAC)


Looking forward to seeing this guy

Not sure about that 2021 1st Round Pick from the Clippers.  I believe we have the option of flipping #1 picks with the Clippers, which would not appear to be meaningful for us.  The 2021 2nd rounder is what the Clippers got from the Pistons in the Griffin trade.  Pistons in transition, too, so that might have some value. 

Issuf Sanon? 

"Is a high energy combo guard with a nice skillset … He can score in bunches and create for both himself and his teammates, while at the same time can be a very good defender on the ball … He is still a work in progress on both ends of the floor, turnover prone, inconsistent shooter and still learning the point-guard position…nevertheless, he is a guy to keep an eye on, since he has all the necessary tools to become a good NBA player in the future."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=C2ew6bt8qVE&feature=emb_logo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=C2ew6bt8qVE&feature=emb_logo)

The 20 year old Ukranian is 6'4", has some hops, and is supposed to have a good pick and roll motor.  The highlights in the above reel are interesting. 

I think the Knicks are looking at him for the summer of 2021 at this point. 

In the Post-Leon Rose--World Wide Wes Epoch I think it is worth noting that besides a capologist, some of Rose's earliest and most telling signings were in the way of some new front office people.

"Brock Aller was hired as vice president of basketball and strategic planning, Walt Perrin is the assistant general manager for college scouting and Frank Zanin the assistant general manager for pro scouting." 

Perrin worked many years for the  Utah Jazz, and is the fellow who championed Donovan Mitchell in the draft. 

Having duly noted that, shortly after Perrin & Zanin were hired, the Knicks released Kadeem Allen and signed 5'11" Jared Harper to an offer sheet. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CstLpJCWnrE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CstLpJCWnrE)

His clips are most interesting.  Explosive, terrific motor, and when you see him pulling up from Steph Curry/Trae Young Country and rattling home three pointers, well, considering what we have seen from Elfrid, Dennis and Frank, you can peep the Knicks' thinking. 

Remains to be seen, but had an excellent developmental year in the G League; he was the victim of a numbers crunch at Phoenix, and when he was waived, the Knicks jumped on him.  He led Auburn to a Final Four berth. 

Knicks also signed Theo Pinson after they cut IsoBench; he is 24 years old, 6'5" and was a UNC man, used sparingly in two years with the Nyets.  His stats are kind of grim, save for excellent FT shooting.  Not sure the thinking here.  Insurance in case Dotson walks, who seems to me very much a TT kind of guy. 

Finally, among our G Leaguers, are Brazdeikis and Kenny Wooten, both of whom showed considerable growth and development. 

Then we presently are at #6 and #25 and #38 in the draft.  I am still hoping for Haliburton but it remains to be seen if we draft for position or best available player.  The current NBA, Draft.net has Detroit taking the 6'9" Deni Avdija, the Israeli SF, at #5, us taking Haliburton at #6, and center Wiseman falling to Detroit at #7.  Who knows.  Any of those players would be interesting.  And while we seem to be crowded at SF/SG with Knox and Brazdeikis and RJ (and presumably Bullock, a good defender and sniper with a friendly contract), at PG with Frank, Dennis and Jared Harper, and at Center/PF with Robinson and Randle and Wooten and presumably Gibson, talent is talent, and trading chips are trading chips. 

How Rose proceeds as a Trader Vic should prove telling, vis a vis, youth must be served, or bringing in vets or some combo there of.  TT gets to put in his two cents now.

If we are not all dead or fighting fascists in the street come November, it would be charming to have an NBA season. 

WHO THE FUCK KNOWS ABOUT ANYTHING at this point. 

Stay safe, stay well, everyone. 
Title: Defund what?
Post by: carlos123 on August 02, 2020, 01:37:18 AM
Quote from: chipstern on August 02, 2020, 12:46:18 AM

If we are not all dead or fighting fascists in the street come November, it would be charming to have an NBA season. 

WHO THE FUCK KNOWS ABOUT ANYTHING at this point. 

Stay safe, stay well, everyone.

You guys know what’s really being defunded in real time? THE POST OFFICE.

You-know-who has a plan, and a real Election ain’t happening.

From Russia With(out) Love.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 02, 2020, 04:16:48 AM
Was good to see some NBA games.
The slogans on the back of the jerseys seemed a little silly (as did the virtual fans), but at least they let foreign players have messages in their native languages.

Utah looked pretty off. With Mitchell trying to force passes into Gobert among a crowd.  Seems Mitchell hasn't developed a kick out pass yet.  He's either shooting or dropping off to GoBear.   Utes sure could have used Bogdanovich.  Looked like zero chemistry between Mitchell and Conley.   They take turns doing the same thing.

Mud came in and immediately through a sloppy turnover.  Then got a steal off a drive and did a nice job of scoring on the ensuing fast break.  Took a 3 pointer that barely grazed the side of the rim.  Wound up with 6 FT's, 3 steals and 2 turns.
Can you trust him in the playoffs?

OKC looked good.  Shai twice drove and finished craftily under-around Gobert. 
Nerlens had 4 blocks in 18 mins, including a pair of key blocks that stopped a Jazz attempted run.

Adams v. Gobear is one of the more fun C matchups.  Don't think they like each other.  Adams won this one.  But Utah just couldn't get the ball into Gobert's hands.  A number of times Rudy had Gallo defending him in transition, and posted up and didn't get the ball.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 02, 2020, 08:12:01 AM
One of the nicer things about these games is that all the bad teams are gone so the games are between teams jockeying for playoff positioning.
I like the virtual fans idea but think they need to amp up the volume to produce some kind of home court advantage.
I like the names on the back of the jerseys but would like more variety in them.  Too much "Equality" out there : )
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on August 02, 2020, 10:21:00 AM
Quote from: Kam on August 02, 2020, 08:12:01 AM
One of the nicer things about these games is that all the bad teams are gone so the games are between teams jockeying for playoff positioning.

I agree. It's so much better without the dross. Think NBA should keep it to like 20 all the time. Do a Premier League relegation model and fold the bottom teams into the G league.  The quality would be much better and the bad teams would have something to root for besides a lottery pick, return to the big league.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 02, 2020, 10:50:18 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on August 02, 2020, 10:21:00 AM
Quote from: Kam on August 02, 2020, 08:12:01 AM
One of the nicer things about these games is that all the bad teams are gone so the games are between teams jockeying for playoff positioning.

I agree. It's so much better without the dross. Think NBA should keep it to like 20 all the time. Do a Premier League relegation model and fold the bottom teams into the G league.  The quality would be much better and the bad teams would have something to root for besides a lottery pick, return to the big league.

I like that.  It incentivizes winning over tanking.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on August 02, 2020, 11:53:12 PM
Burke, THjr, back to Earth. Zingis, not so much.

https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=401224724 (https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=401224724)

Pops just lets loose, cites eliminating racist scumbags like kiid as the only priority.

https://sports.yahoo.com/san-antonio-spurs-gregg-popovich-powerful-statement-racial-justice-marco-belinelli-214139519.html (https://sports.yahoo.com/san-antonio-spurs-gregg-popovich-powerful-statement-racial-justice-marco-belinelli-214139519.html)
Title: Poor Chico👦
Post by: carlos123 on August 03, 2020, 12:35:42 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on August 02, 2020, 11:53:12 PM
Burke, THjr, back to Earth. Zingis, not so much.

https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=401224724 (https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=401224724)

Pops just lets loose, cites eliminating racist scumbags like kiid as the only priority.

https://sports.yahoo.com/san-antonio-spurs-gregg-popovich-powerful-statement-racial-justice-marco-belinelli-214139519.html (https://sports.yahoo.com/san-antonio-spurs-gregg-popovich-powerful-statement-racial-justice-marco-belinelli-214139519.html)

How about...
... neutralizing emotionally challenged poor souls like Chico👦tm?

I mean, poor thing, I’m sure his mama liked him when he was young ... or did she? 🤭

(https://media.tenor.com/images/f45dc3deb54ae86b9276bd0aaa790972/tenor.gif)
    nice doggie

PS. Luka is a MONSTER!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 03, 2020, 04:28:18 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on August 02, 2020, 11:53:12 PM
Burke, THjr, back to Earth. Zingis, not so much.

https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=401224724 (https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=401224724)

Pops just lets loose, cites eliminating racist scumbags like kiid as the only priority.

https://sports.yahoo.com/san-antonio-spurs-gregg-popovich-powerful-statement-racial-justice-marco-belinelli-214139519.html (https://sports.yahoo.com/san-antonio-spurs-gregg-popovich-powerful-statement-racial-justice-marco-belinelli-214139519.html)

KP with 30

Luka, 40 points, 18-19 from the FT line, 11 assists. 

Pretty impressive. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 03, 2020, 04:56:17 AM
Tim Jr. one of the streakiest mofos going.
DAL shot 19% on 3's; lost by 2.

Wish we had KZ and Rubio.
Could build a team around that easily.
(Rubio's been moved twice in the past 3 years, and both times I advocated for him).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 03, 2020, 05:00:36 AM
HOU took 91 FG's, 61 of them were 3's.  An NBA record.
I'll try to catch a replay, but this all-3 style of play I usually find rather boring.
Title: Westbrook
Post by: chipstern on August 03, 2020, 05:28:39 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 03, 2020, 05:00:36 AM
HOU took 91 FG's, 61 of them were 3's.  An NBA record.
I'll try to catch a replay, but this all-3 style of play I usually find rather boring.

Ironic that it was their defense that brought home the bacon. 

Russell Westbrook. 

MAN.

When I was visiting my daughter's family on Charlotte, my son in law took me to the Spectrum to see the Hornets take on the Thunder. 

The Hornets were taking it to the Thunder for three quarters, then Westbrook attained his fifth gear. 

There is an intensity to his game that needs to be experienced live.  The actual SOUND of his feet thundering up the hardwood like a freight train. 

I remember remarking to my son-in-law, that Russell reminded me more of running back Barry Sanders than most point guards. 

He willed Houston back into the game last night, and inspired his team mates to raise up. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 03, 2020, 05:43:31 PM
I'll try to catch a replay, but this all-3 style of play I usually find rather boring.


I'm so sorry
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 03, 2020, 05:45:24 PM
Wish we had KZ and Rubio.


Do you mean KP?

He left.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 03, 2020, 05:51:21 PM
(Rubio's been moved twice in the past 3 years, and both times I advocated for him).


were you giving up the Knox pick for one year of Rubio, with hopes he would re-sign?  How much would you have offered?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 03, 2020, 06:09:22 PM
Porter plays young, makes mistakes, is tentative at times.  Had a number of poor fouls.


heh

I'll take him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 03, 2020, 06:26:37 PM
Hopefully the training staff in Denver can catch him up on how human health actually works.

His game is coming along though.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 04, 2020, 01:03:43 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 03, 2020, 05:45:24 PM
Wish we had KZ and Rubio.

He left.

Has there ever been a budding young star, still on a rook contract, who forced his way out?

KZ left because of organizational dysfunction.
Phil thinking that he and his retrograde system was the star of the show.
The crappy way that Melo and Noah were treated.  The coaching carousel.
The antiquated system.  Never got KZ a PG partner.  Etc.

Most teams coddle their star, pay them more than other teams can, keep his trainers and end-of-the-bench friends with the team, etc.
Knix completely and thoroughly blew it.
And then to make matters worse, rushed a trade for useless parts.
Just embarrassing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 04, 2020, 01:37:01 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 04, 2020, 01:03:43 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 03, 2020, 05:45:24 PM
Wish we had KZ and Rubio.

He left.

Has there ever been a budding young star, still on a rook contract, who forced his way out?

KZ left because of organizational dysfunction.
Phil thinking that he and his retrograde system was the star of the show.
The crappy way that Melo and Noah were treated.  The coaching carousel.
The antiquated system.  Never got KZ a PG partner.  Etc.

Most teams coddle their star, pay them more than other teams can, keep his trainers and end-of-the-bench friends with the team, etc.
Knix completely and thoroughly blew it.
And then to make matters worse, rushed a trade for useless parts.
Just embarrassing.

Word
Title: Re: Kiid On A Skid
Post by: FWK00 on August 04, 2020, 10:38:09 AM
Quote from: chipstern on August 01, 2020, 05:56:59 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 01, 2020, 05:45:34 PM
I'm concerned though that this season may be a waste and with that thought in mind its crazy to trade for Chris Paul. His shelf-life is expiring and wasting assets on signing  expensive contracts for a dicey year of play seems risky.  Better to trade for longer term assets OR draft well and use this year to stockpile a few more kids.  Two years out this will be a superteam.


Ridiculous

Says you, numb nutz. 

Chris Paul still has plenty left in the tank.  Love him. 

But CP should be the final piece, not the first. 

We would have to gut what little talent we have to bring him here in a trade, to play with...WHO? 

Let's go to the Real GM Trade Checker.  NO FAs, only signed contract players. 

Julius Randle, RJ Barrett, Frank Ntilikina, Dennis Smith, Kevin Knox for Chris Paul. 

Congrats, successful trade. 

Sounds like a plan, huh? 

Of course, now GM Kiid could fill those open roster spots with more proven veterans, like Jimmer.

Thanks Chip.

The value of Chris Paul under normal circumstances would be as much for teaching and leading as playing (we ain't winning the coming season).  So his "tank" would have to last two or three seasons to actually squeeze value.

As for the trade numbers, I'm guessing sign and trade numbers would buffer the numbers game in that regard.
Title: Re: And who exactly was YOUR COACH, Carlos?
Post by: FWK00 on August 04, 2020, 10:40:14 AM
Quote from: FWK00 on August 01, 2020, 11:49:26 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on July 31, 2020, 09:39:23 PM
I said before MANY TIMES who exactly was my coach. Guess you didn't read, so I'll repeat it: MIKE MILLER.

Why? I'll also repeat some of my arguments for you:

Proved to be a very good coach FOR THIS TEAM, with immediate improvement over his predecessor, good with our yute, team played hard for him, and played as a TEAM, articulate and great with the press (yes, I think that's important in NY) and, crucially, I thought it was about time the Knicks showed SOME loyalty for a change, to someone who'd been with them and proved himself when given the opportunity. That's why I hope some other team hires him as head coach.

Quote
Carlos...you just sort of re-fry those beans about playing vets too many minutes.

In Minny, besides getting them to their one playoff appearance in what, a decade, he actually brought KAT's minutes...DOWN from around 38 to 33.

Chip, you know that argument is funny, don't you? I mean, big fucking deal, down 5 MINUTES. Besides, was KAT really a veteran at the time? Oh, and he was fired for a number of reasons. He may have have been very good in Chicago, but not really in a developing team like Minny.

Now, you like Thibs, good for you! Lets see if you still like him after one season.

Carlos, I share your lament.  I happen to think Miller was the guy to continue developing the Knicks but I'm not at all distraught about Thibs. 

Unlike many of the Knicks critics I don't think the Knicks roster needs so much 'work' as it needs and needed maturity.  I happen to think the Knicks have a great core in Frankie, Dotson, RJ, and Mitchell. And they have plenty of choices with everyone else - either trade 'em or keep them. 

IMO, high on the trade fodder list is Randle, Smith, Knox, Portis, and Harper. And Randle being the top priority to get gone.

Now, I believe this season is going to be a hot mess.  You can't bubble your way through a season so the league will need to expand rosters just because with the G-League being more of the Legion of substitute NBA playahs.  The Knicks building a bigger coaching staff will be a good thing and having Woody and Miller available to keep a substitute unit in tact will be crucial.

I'm concerned though that this season may be a waste and with that thought in mind its crazy to trade for Chris Paul.  His shelf-life is expiring and wasting assets on signing  expensive contracts for a dicey year of play seems risky.  Better to trade for longer term assets OR draft well and use this year to stockpile a few more kids.  Two years out this will be a superteam.

What Bo responded to.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on August 04, 2020, 10:45:51 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 01, 2020, 01:03:12 PM
Fwk you ... crazy.

I've found that pessimism has been warranted for the last 7 years, and likely another 3 going forward.

They guys you want to keep aren't that good.  The guys you want to trade have little value now.  I assume we won't pick up Portis' option.

Frankie is a unicorn and just entering a competence phase of maturity.  He and Dotson put together some of the best complementary play of the year under Miller.  Miller's trajectory minus Fizz would have had us completing a very decent season 30+ wins given the roster. Thibs should do at least that well this coming year.

But my point is, why invest in high profile trades for this coming Covid year? Invest in the kids.  The vets that are kept are fine - not great, but good-enough.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 04, 2020, 11:26:44 AM
Franc & Dot?
You gotta have somebody who can bring the ball upcourt.
Somebody who can set guys up.
I don't see it.
Both of those guys are bench fodder.
Wouldn't surprise me if one or both was out of the league within 3 years.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on August 04, 2020, 11:45:38 AM
I think that would surprise me a lot.
Sure agree with you about Rubio though. Nice nice player.


* Just ain't no way Frankie out of the league — plenty of teams would kill for what he already brings on one side of the ball. Like Rubio, he came into the league offensively challenged in certain specific ways. Unlike Rubio, he's on a trajectory to shoot 40% for the first time well before he turns 26, lol.  Of course, he's no ball handling wizard like the Spaniard, the opposite, different set of challenges to overcome, though excellent game feel will serve him well. Yet unclear exactly what he will become, but if he ends up heading back to France to play ball it will only be because he misses mama's cooking.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 04, 2020, 11:52:46 AM
were you giving up the Knox pick for one year of Rubio, with hopes he would re-sign?  How much would you have offered?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on August 04, 2020, 11:59:31 AM
Well given where Knox appears to be headed, surely, but hindsight isn't fair so can't honestly say. Didn't trust mgmt to trade the pick, didn't trust mgmt to make the pick.


*** really didn't like that pick, sometimes what you read just is..low motor, bad d, what more do you really need to know, not good.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 04, 2020, 12:34:10 PM
I'd have to go back and see what I was offering for Rubio.
I usually concoct a trade when I target a player.

I'm also fairly reluctant to trade 1st round picks.
So likely not, but I doubt that was our only option.
I don't remember the context well enough, or what Utah traded for Rubio, to really say much more.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 04, 2020, 01:02:53 PM
We could've had Rubio for Derrick Rose but we asked for too much.  At the last minute the Knicks reportedly dropped the demand and would've accepted a 1 for 1 deal but Minny had moved on.

Marc Stein
@TheSteinLine
·
Feb 23, 2017
The Knicks, sources say, are pushing for an additional piece from Minnesota in the Rubio/DRose talks and that's been the holdup this week.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 04, 2020, 01:08:21 PM
That's right.
All reports were Minny was willing to do a Rose/Rubio swap.
And Phil wanted more.  And by the time Phil agreed last minute, Minny had moved on.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 04, 2020, 01:13:52 PM
So likely not, but I doubt that was our only option.


Well, I asked because they dealt him for a 1, though later than Knox (#20 overall)

Knicks could have protected it....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 04, 2020, 01:15:19 PM
All reports were Minny was willing to do a Rose/Rubio swap.


This doesnt complete the picture

How much were you giving Ricky - years and dollars - to stay?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 04, 2020, 01:17:54 PM
Randle money.
The going rate.
Goddamn we've needed a legit starting PG for  along long time.
So you don't cheap out.

You can build a team around KZ and Rubio.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 04, 2020, 01:53:15 PM
Utah was looking to contend and decided not to pay him
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 04, 2020, 01:54:19 PM
Traded a pantload for Conley instead.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on August 04, 2020, 02:17:29 PM
It's not entirely clear how much, if at all, Utah has benefited from those moves.

It's very clear how much Phoenix — a team much closer to us in stature/progression —has benefited from the addition of Ricky.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 04, 2020, 06:36:23 PM
Caught the last minute of PHX-LAC.
Booker canned two jumpers for the W.
Tied game, time running down, Paul George on him, Kawhi comes over to double and cut him off, and Book makes a nasty turnaround at the buzzer with PG all over him.  They both tumble to the court as time expires ans the ball sails through.
Nice!

Clips TV names Zubac player of the game, then he secures a rebound with 10 secs left in a tie game, and proceeds to throw a pass into Ayton arms.  Giving PHX the last shot.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 04, 2020, 06:39:09 PM
Good game

Suns A game beats Clips C game by a deuce.

And Nets are shutting me up as well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 04, 2020, 06:45:49 PM
I had just tuned in with 55 secs left.
But not sure why RegJax was guarding Booker.  Booker got to his spot and shot over Jax for a 2 point lead.  Seemed easy and got Book feeling good.

I really like the young PHX core of Book - Rubio - Ayton - Bridges.
Saric and Banes are solid role players.
Just need to fill out the roster a bit more.
Title: Enes Kanter
Post by: chipstern on August 04, 2020, 07:09:36 PM
Giving Brad Stevens good minutes off the bench. 

How?

Offensive rebounding. 

Now there's a surprise. 
Title: Re: Enes Kanter
Post by: chipstern on August 04, 2020, 08:18:23 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 04, 2020, 07:09:36 PM
Giving Brad Stevens good minutes off the bench. 

How?

Offensive rebounding. 

Now there's a surprise.

Jayson Tatum


DAMN
Title: TJ Warren
Post by: Kam on August 04, 2020, 09:29:56 PM
Aug.1 53 points
Aug.3 34 points
Aug.4 32 points

The Suns traded TJ Warren and the #32 pick to the Pacers for cash.
Title: Re: TJ Warren
Post by: Kam on August 04, 2020, 09:36:49 PM
Quote from: Kam on August 04, 2020, 09:29:56 PM
Aug.1 53 points
Aug.3 34 points
Aug.4 32 points

The Suns traded TJ Warren and the #32 pick to the Pacers for cash.

That 2nd game he posted crazy stats across the board despite only shooting 1 for 6 from behind the arc

14-26 11rebs 4ast 3stl 4blk
Title: How about ...
Post by: carlos123 on August 04, 2020, 10:09:13 PM
LUKA!!!

34 points, 12 ast and 20 rebs!

WOW!!!
Title: Enes
Post by: carlos123 on August 05, 2020, 12:27:34 AM
Enes was a +4 in 15 minutes, or a +1 every 3.75 minutes, best among the Celts.

It follows that, had he played for 26.25 minutes, Boston woulda won the game.

Next time give him 27 full minutes, just to make sure.

Kamster, u follow me?

What do you say Bank?
Title: Carlos' unhealthy obsession with Big Turkish men
Post by: Kam on August 05, 2020, 02:54:23 AM
Carlos you won't stop talking about Enes Kanter. 

You want to talk Enes +/- stats? 
OK.   
Just remember that I didn't bring him up.
Yeah, I posted my dislike for him quite often when he was here, i'll admit.
But most of the forum grew tired and I moved on.   

So excuse me (and apologies to everyone else here) if I discuss Enes Kanter's Knick stint one more time.
Apologies in advance!. But Carlos has called me out about for the Nth time so I'm hoping to put this tedium to bed.

NOW Carlos, these are YOUR STATS remember.  This is what you want to bring up.  PLUS minus. You brought it up. OK?  Not me.

So here it is:


                   Enes on court.   Enes off court
2017-2018.   Knicks  -5.0        Knicks -2.0
2018-2019.   Knicks -10.3       Knicks -1.5


So the net effect is the Knicks were (using the metric you tout) a little better (3.0points) when Enes sat in 2017-2018 and much better (8.8pts) when Enes sat in 2018-2019.   And this is not cherry picking games here and there which you're not even supposed to use +- for.  This is for the season.

So you must concede to me that Enes was a failed Knick.  And to be fair I will concede to you that Enes has posted much better stats for Portland  and Boston. 

Not comes the litmus test..... does Carlos modify the tone of his posts and stop bringing up Enes and me or does he continue his folly using +/- in the face of factual evidence.  Because if Carlos doesn't like facts that don't suit his argument I will just set him to ignore and never have to see his Enes baiting again.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 05, 2020, 04:38:19 AM
With the long wings the Celtics run, and as a willing sub, Kanter makes a lot more sense on his current team than he did on the Knicks.

Heat looked good against Boston.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 05, 2020, 05:53:01 AM
I saw a fair amount of the 1st half.  The announcers were touting Kanter, then a minute later he came in and killed a smallish MIA team on the boards.  I thought Kanter looked heavy and slow running up and down the court.  But he was nasty on the O-boards.

On BOS, Kanter is making just $4.7M, coming off the bench.
I'd take him as a Knick under those conditions.
For the Knix, he was a $20M starter.
BOS also has a number of young active defenders they can put around Kanter.
Knix didn't.

I could be wrong, but I believe I said Kanter's post-Knick contact would be about $7M and got laughed out roundly.

Besides Hayward's absurd contract, BOS has their cap in good shape.
Yeah, they overpaid to get Kemba, but you want a quality starting PG, you need to pay.  Jaylen starts making real money next year, but he's good.  Smart at $12M is a bargain -- this year he's their 3rd highest paid player.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 05, 2020, 09:57:11 AM
Kanter had a very effective 115 games with Knicks

23.1 PER vs 20.7 career mark
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 05, 2020, 10:05:53 AM
Which doesn't capture his David Lee level defense ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 05, 2020, 11:19:35 AM
knicks didnt pay Kanter - he just got Melo's money.
Title: Re: Carlos' unhealthy obsession with Big Turkish men
Post by: lesterluv on August 05, 2020, 11:25:04 AM
Quote from: Kam on August 05, 2020, 02:54:23 AM
Apologies in advance!. But Carlos has called me out about for the Nth time so I'm hoping to put this tedium to bed.

NOW Carlos, these are YOUR STATS remember.  This is what you...YADDA YIDDA YODDA YODA

lol, Carlos could troll you daily until the pandemic ends and he still wouldn't catch up to your previous post volume on the Turkish Terror.
 Turks did your wife. They did your mom. We remember. You got trauma. We understand.

now, who ya gonna trust on the value of Enes, da hamster or Brad Stevens...hmmm

finally, on D, yeah his D kinda sucks, lol, except for the fact that rebounds are an under appreciated possession-denying form of defense, and there he excels..
(don't matter your FG% if you don't have the ball)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 05, 2020, 11:29:33 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 05, 2020, 10:05:53 AM
Which doesn't capture his David Lee level defense ...

If he got more blocks and steals his PER would in fact be higher.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 05, 2020, 11:46:58 AM
Thanks, professor.

PER basically just adds up box score numbers.
Which doesn't record defense and guys scoring all over your supposed anchor.
The funny thing is Kanter's effort oN D wasn't bad.  He just wasn't good at it.
Unlike Mr. lee who would almost obligingly move out of the way.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on August 05, 2020, 11:49:32 AM
problems getting the relegated teams tourney off the ground:

https://nypost.com/2020/08/04/nba-running-into-problems-with-delete-8-camp-including-knicks/ (https://nypost.com/2020/08/04/nba-running-into-problems-with-delete-8-camp-including-knicks/)

really do believe the effects of no competition will linger into next season for us and the others.


*** re lee ... no kidding ... was damn happy to see him go..couldn't watch him do the turnstile anymore
Title: Obsession
Post by: carlos123 on August 05, 2020, 12:40:39 PM
Quote from: Kam on August 05, 2020, 02:54:23 AM

So here it is:


                   Enes on court.   Enes off court
2017-2018.   Knicks  -5.0        Knicks -2.0
2018-2019.   Knicks -10.3       Knicks -1.5


So the net effect is the Knicks were (using the metric you tout) a little better (3.0points) when Enes sat in 2017-2018 and much better (8.8pts) when Enes sat in 2018-2019.   And this is not cherry picking games here and there which you're not even supposed to use +- for.  This is for the season.

So you must concede to me that Enes was a failed Knick.  And to be fair I will concede to you that Enes has posted much better stats for Portland  and Boston. 

Not comes the litmus test..... does Carlos modify the tone of his posts and stop bringing up Enes and me or does he continue his folly using +/- in the face of factual evidence.  Because if Carlos doesn't like facts that don't suit his argument I will just set him to ignore and never have to see his Enes baiting again.

Kamster, admit it, you can’t resist my “Enes baiting”.

I always wondered about the reason(s) for you obsession with and your hatred for Kanter. Was it the name, so similar to yours? Were you a Recep agent? Had some Turk hurt your family?

It turns out it was his +/- while with the Knicks. I’m assuming your stats are correct, obsessed as you still are with everything Enes Kanter.

I’ll keep mentioning irrelevant stats once in a while, so as to keep you engaged. Maybe there are other reasons for your hatred/obsession. Stay tuned Kamster, we know you ain’t gonna put me on ignore.

Don’t take it so hard, nothing personal, I just enjoy playing with you. Cheers.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 05, 2020, 12:44:56 PM
Which doesn't record defense and guys scoring all over your supposed anchor.


Nobody posts up in today's NBA

Stop trying to fit shit into your narrative

And you are correct - as I said - more blocks and steals would add to Kanter's PER, so the 23.1 with the Knicks includes his lower D stats
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 05, 2020, 01:14:31 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 05, 2020, 12:44:56 PM
Which doesn't record defense and guys scoring all over your supposed anchor.

Nobody posts up in today's NBA
Stop trying to fit shit into your narrative

Stop being wrong about everything.
No one mentioned post ups. 
Kanter was bad being the backline of defense on any type of play.
When guys drove past our weak G's, anyone with momentum coming at Kanter requiring him to move and think quickly generally scored easily.  He was useless as help defense near the rim as well.
Like many large C's he's not nimble enough to handle PnR's, the bread and butter of today's NBA, but he also doesn't have a strategy to handle PnR's.

Again if you can use Kanter in limited minutes in good matchups and mostly against 2nd units, he can beast folks on the boards.  Which can be valuable.  But Kanter as a starting C is very problematic.  He can't defend the rim.  He can't space the floor by shooting 3's.   He's mostly a boarding/putback specialist.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 05, 2020, 03:49:53 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 05, 2020, 12:44:56 PM
Which doesn't record defense and guys scoring all over your supposed anchor.


Nobody posts up in today's NBA

Stop trying to fit shit into your narrative

And you are correct - as I said - more blocks and steals would add to Kanter's PER, so the 23.1 with the Knicks includes his lower D stats

Teams create switches and dust slow footed bigs or put them in high P&Rs and make them react. This is especially true of Kanter which makes it good the Celts can defend 4 on 5 if he gets rebounds which he does.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 05, 2020, 04:16:03 PM
In addition to Elba I follow other Knicks communities.  This is the only corner of the internet where people are pining for our lost big man.   You never hear about him because in that same trade we acquired a better big.  The pick we used to draft Mitchell Robinson.  Why worry about missing defense when you can bring in a fly swatter type with lob skills for days.  The best shooting percentage ever!  And yeah, he can rebound a little bit as well.

We haven't missed our forlorn big one bit.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 05, 2020, 06:45:26 PM
We now need the guy who gets it done when Mitch goes to the bench. That’s still not Kanter.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 05, 2020, 06:57:06 PM
Randle for Dewayne Dedmon & De’Andre Hunter.

Gets us a backup 5 who can mentor Mitch and spread the floor.

Gets us a big young swing with a fundamental game and team first approach who can play 3 next to RJ’s 2 in a traditional lineup or 4 next to RJ’s 3 in a small ball set.

Randle is the best player in the deal and can play alongside Collins or Capella. With Randle as a strict 4 man, Reddish and Huerter make Hunter disposable in upgrading production from DD to JR. with their PG situation the Hawks should be able to steer Randle away from spinning forays into the paint.

Title: Here We Go Again.
Post by: chipstern on August 05, 2020, 08:34:23 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 05, 2020, 06:45:26 PM
We now need the guy who gets it done when Mitch goes to the bench. That’s still not Kanter.

And Dedman is? 

At 13,333,333 for the next two seasons, because, of course, much better than picking up Bobby Portis's $15,000,000 for one year. 

Spread the floor?

He shot .222 last year. 

Better we should have Kiid spread his legs. 

PS: Why the fuck does Atlanta give us DeAndre?  And who is our PF going forward?  We're giving up on Portis, right?  Who replaces Julius' 19.7 ppg, 9.7 boards and 3.1 assists.  Kenny Wooten?  Nice talent like Mitchell, but on offense? 

PPS: And hey, maybe Thibs has a better plan for using Randle. 

PPPS: Creative trade.  But again, Dedman?  I think not.  Would I do it if we got Hunter?  Yes I might?  But DeAndre seems very much like a Hawks builing block going forward.  Back to the drawing board. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: LarryBnDC on August 05, 2020, 08:58:07 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 04, 2020, 01:37:01 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 04, 2020, 01:03:43 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 03, 2020, 05:45:24 PM
Wish we had KZ and Rubio.

He left.

Has there ever been a budding young star, still on a rook contract, who forced his way out?

KZ left because of organizational dysfunction.
Phil thinking that he and his retrograde system was the star of the show.
The crappy way that Melo and Noah were treated.  The coaching carousel.
The antiquated system.  Never got KZ a PG partner.  Etc.

Most teams coddle their star, pay them more than other teams can, keep his trainers and end-of-the-bench friends with the team, etc.
Knix completely and thoroughly blew it.
And then to make matters worse, rushed a trade for useless parts.
Just embarrassing.

Word


Quite
Title: Kam(s)ter and Kanter
Post by: carlos123 on August 05, 2020, 10:45:29 PM
Quote from: Kam on August 05, 2020, 04:16:03 PM
In addition to Elba I follow other Knicks communities.  This is the only corner of the internet where people are pining for our lost big man.   You never hear about him because in that same trade we acquired a better big.  The pick we used to draft Mitchell Robinson.  Why worry about missing defense when you can bring in a fly swatter type with lob skills for days.  The best shooting percentage ever!  And yeah, he can rebound a little bit as well.

We haven't missed our forlorn big one bit.

I really don't care, but today Enes was a +7 in 5 minutes.

OTOH, we have Mitchell and Taj, so we're ok in that department.

Also, WE KNOW you haven't missed your cousin Kanter one bit.

Still, more than a +1 per minute. IMPRESSIVE! 😁

Take the bait?
Title: Let's hope the new regime doesn't repeat the last one
Post by: Kam on August 06, 2020, 02:00:44 AM
(https://preview.redd.it/sj6jccx239f51.jpg?width=640&height=510&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=4d2d46b83870d6d1026026736917d394e7b7ce10)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 06, 2020, 05:23:07 AM
Ouch.
Title: Re: Here We Go Again.
Post by: facilitatorn on August 06, 2020, 05:32:06 AM
Quote from: chipstern on August 05, 2020, 08:34:23 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 05, 2020, 06:45:26 PM
We now need the guy who gets it done when Mitch goes to the bench. That’s still not Kanter.

And Dedman is? 

At 13,333,333 for the next two seasons, because, of course, much better than picking up Bobby Portis's $15,000,000 for one year. 

Spread the floor?

He shot .222 last year. 

After years at 38 & 35%. He had no role last year until he got back to Atlanta. He does a very nice job defensively with much more craft than athleticism. When he has a role, he’s been a good plus-minus guy and win shares guy as well.

You are underselling Dedmon. He’s not the A talent though he makes more salary. Consider him the cost of adding Hunter without hurting cap space or sending out draft picks.

He’s not yet 31.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 06, 2020, 11:02:31 AM
I like that deal.
Get a promising yute and a backup C for Randle.

But how does that work for ATL?
You can't really play Capela and Randle together as that would clog the paint.
And you don't really want Julius jacking 3's (though he's willing).

Collins is a very nice young PF.  Does Randle come off the bench?  Is so what's the point?   And Randle is a one position fella.  Can't credibly play backup C, so his time is all at the expense of Collins.

ATL needs more defense around Tre.
Isn't DeAndre a 3&D wing and their best young wing defender?
I don't see ATL trading away defense and positional versatility for Randle's offense and PF fixture.

I didn't realize Hunter makes $7M.  A high pick. 
And yeah you can just pretend Hunter is getting $13M and Dedmon $7M.
Maybe they'd give us Cam Reddish, who struggled mightily then came on ... ?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 06, 2020, 11:50:56 AM
Thinking about it more, ATL would have to be crazy to give us two defenders for one offender.  They need defense around Trae.  Can't rely on Capela alone.

DeA Hunter fits the prototype of the modern NBA wing.  Qucik, rangy, swicthcable, plays D, can make some 3's.  Randle a bull in the china shop, throwback post-up Big, who plays one position and likes to spin out of control and turn the ball over.  They can get enough turnovers from Tre.

Not happening.
I'd go it for the Knix.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 06, 2020, 11:56:47 AM
Quote from: Kam on August 05, 2020, 04:16:03 PM
In addition to Elba I follow other Knicks communities.  This is the only corner of the internet where ...

I wasn't aware Kam was cheating on us.
I feel so violated ...
Title: underreported cases issue
Post by: lesterluv on August 06, 2020, 12:53:36 PM
lmao...

that means the true total of kanter-did-my-mom-but-i'll-show-him! posts is prob approaching 25k

he's a super-spreader!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 06, 2020, 01:00:54 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 06, 2020, 11:56:47 AM
Quote from: Kam on August 05, 2020, 04:16:03 PM
In addition to Elba I follow other Knicks communities.  This is the only corner of the internet where ...

I wasn't aware Kam was cheating on us.
I feel so violated ...

It's not cheating to look!
Title: Me too!
Post by: carlos123 on August 06, 2020, 01:33:46 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 06, 2020, 11:56:47 AM
Quote from: Kam on August 05, 2020, 04:16:03 PM
In addition to Elba I follow other Knicks communities.  This is the only corner of the internet where ...

I wasn't aware Kam was cheating on us.
I feel so violated ...

And it’s waaaay more than looking. Following, and who knows what else? 😳
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 06, 2020, 02:11:45 PM
I tune in mid 1Q.
Sacto up 28-16 after 6 minutes.
49-39 after 1Q.  Both teams shot over 70% Fg.
Pels need to play some D.
Title: DeAndre
Post by: chipstern on August 06, 2020, 03:48:53 PM
My lack of enthusiasm for Dedmon notwithstanding?

DeAndre went at #4, right after RJ.  Basically gave the Hawks 12-4-3 a night, and solid D. 

They are NOT SHOPPING HIM. 

The deal you suggest?  There would HAVE TO BE a #1 pick in there, and/or another piece, such as a Bullock or Dotson, or a Brazdeikis or Knox. 

And again, this forum's lack of enthusiasm for Julius, I would be VERY SURPRISED is the Knicks trade Randle. 

Again, it says here that Thibs gets to COACH him. 

Julius shooting threes and being a point forward facilitator? 

Not a good look. 

A post presence who can get you 20-10 and is a willing 3 dime a night passer? 

Seems like there's something to work with there.

C: Robinson, Gibson
PF: Randle, Wooten
SF/PF: Knox, Harkless
SF: Brazdeikis
SF/SG: Barrett. Bullock, Dotson
SG/PG: Ntilikina
PG: Smith, Harper

That's 13.

No LOCK that Harkless or Dotson are back, but would think they are type of defensive players Thibs would like.

Gibson?  Some sort of cut and re-sign. 

Why?

Projecting?  Defense Offense

Robinson-Randle
Wooten-Gibson

Projecting? 

Ellington?

Gone.

Portis...Peyton?

On the bubble.  Like them both, but a numbers game.  Bobby give you offense, often seems lost on D.  Peyton a good rudder, decent defender and penetrator but we end up playing 4 on 5 offensively because his lack of a reliable jumper simply is not tenable in a starter.  Of course we could say pretty much the same things about Dennis, however....

The draft likely determines FA and Trade decisions going forward.  Not exactly a revelation, that, but summer speculations and more trade
Title: Re: DeAndre
Post by: elephant on August 06, 2020, 05:18:50 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 06, 2020, 03:48:53 PM
......

PG: Smith, Harper

That's 13.

No LOCK that Harkless or Dotson are back, but would think they are type of defensive players Thibs would like.

Gibson?  Some sort of cut and re-sign. 

Why?

Projecting?  Defense Offense

Robinson-Randle
Wooten-Gibson

Projecting? 

Ellington?

Gone.

Portis...Peyton?

On the bubble.  Like them both, but a numbers game.  Bobby give you offense, often seems lost on D.  Peyton a good rudder, decent defender and penetrator but we end up playing 4 on 5 offensively because his lack of a reliable jumper simply is not tenable in a starter.  Of course we could say pretty much the same things about Dennis, however....

The draft likely determines FA and Trade decisions going forward.  Not exactly a revelation, that, but summer speculations and more trade

What does Dennis Smith Jr. do better than Peyton?

Has Smith shown a reliable jumper? Or much of anything else?

Next season will mark the third year of his audition — I think two seasons were plenty.

Title: Knicks by the numbers
Post by: Kam on August 06, 2020, 05:55:51 PM
It was so strange to sign both Randle and Portis.  I did some digging on NBA.com:

Randle and Portis started zero games together and mostly split court time.  They were not on court together very often.


59 minutes of M. Morris Sr., .J. Randle, .B. Portis, .F. Ntilikina, .R. Barrett.  //-32.1 net rating #knicks worst lineup
44 minutes of M. Morris Sr., .E. Payton, .J. Randle, .B. Portis, .R. Barrett.    // 29.2 net rating
24 minutes of J. Randle, .B. Portis, .F. Ntilikina, .D. Dotson, .K. Knox II.      // 31.5 net rating

One of them must go.  I don't even care which one.  Maybe they both should be gone but I suspect Randle stays.


Also interesting that nearly every 5-man lineup with Ntilikina and Morris had a poor net rating*

241 minutes of T. Gibson, .M. Morris Sr., .J. Randle, .F. Ntilikina, .R. Barrett     // -6.7 net rating
74 minutes of   M. Morris Sr., .J. Randle, .F. Ntilikina, .M. Robinson, .R. Barrett //-23.6 net rating
59 minutes of M. Morris Sr., .J. Randle, .B. Portis, .F. Ntilikina, .R. Barrett.       //-32.1 net rating #knicks worst lineup
22 minutes of M. Morris Sr., .B. Portis, .F. Ntilikina, .D. Dotson, .M. Robinson   // 2.6 net rating

*For context the Knicks overall net rating for the season was -6.5


So the Knicks played OK when Morris was with Randle but not paired with Portis AND Randle. 
And the Knicks played OK when Morris was paired with Payton but not with Ntilikina.
Basically Morris was a polarizing player stat-wise in addition to his other antics.  And he's gone now.

BUT with respect to the above, RJ Barrett is the common denominator in all our most negative lineups.
So let's dig a little further into Barrett's lineups:


241 minutes of T. Gibson, .M. Morris Sr., .J. Randle, .F. Ntilikina, .R. Barrett     // -6.7 net rating
120 minutes of M. Morris Sr., .E. Payton, .J. Randle, .M. Robinson, .R. Barrett  // 0.4 net rating
92 minutes of T. Gibson, .M. Harkless, .E. Payton, .J. Randle, .R. Barrett.        // 1.4 net rating
79 minutes of T. Gibson, .R. Bullock, .E. Payton, .J. Randle, .R. Barrett          // -14.6 net rating
74 minutes of M. Morris Sr., .J. Randle, .F. Ntilikina, .M. Robinson, .R. Barrett //-23.6 net rating
74 minutes of T. Gibson, .M. Morris Sr., .E. Payton, .J. Randle, .R. Barrett.     //-17.2 net rating
59 minutes of M. Morris Sr., .J. Randle, .B. Portis, .F. Ntilikina, .R. Barrett.     //-32.1 net rating #knicks worst lineup
51 minutes of M. Harkless, .E. Payton, .J. Randle, .M. Robinson, .R Barrett.    //28.1 net rating

44 minutes of M. Morris Sr., .E. Payton, .J. Randle, .B. Portis, .R. Barrett.      // 29.2 net rating
32 minutes of E. Payton, .J. Randle, .K. Knox II, .M. Robinson, .R. Barrett     //4.0 net rating
32 minutes of T. Gibson, .R. Bullock, .E. Payton, .B. Portis, .R. Barrett.         // -8.0 net rating
31 minutes of R. Bullock, .E. Payton, .J. Randle, M. Robinson, .R. Barrett.     //-9.9 net rating 
 
A mixed bag thankfully.  Barrett is not the poison in the kool-aid.  And even if he was, he still hasn't payed a full rookie season.
Again you see more correlation with Morris in the negative lineups with little exception in regards to Barrett.


Some quick conclusions/questions
Was Marcus Morris just a guy who didn't play well with our putative starters Ntilikina and Barrett?
He seemed to play best with Payton.  So if Morris is gone, will Payton be less needed?
With Morris gone, will the Knicks (6-9 record after the trade deadline and -4.2 net rating) naturally keep getting better?
Are we basically much better off making the trade with the Clippers (addition by subtraction) and wise to not try to resign MM in the off-season?
Is Harkless (better with Barrett) a guy we try to keep?


Title: Knicks after the trade deadline
Post by: Kam on August 06, 2020, 06:38:59 PM
I ran a filter on the last 15 games of the season (after the Morris for Harkless swap)
You can run it yourself here (https://stats.nba.com/lineups/advanced/?Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612752&LastNGames=15&sort=MIN&dir=1&CF=MIN*G*12)
Our top 3 lineup's with a minimum of 12 minutes used were:

92 minutes of .T. Gibson, .M. Harkless, .E. Payton, .J. Randle, .R. Barrett.     //1.4 net rating
51 minutes of .M. Harkless, .E. Payton, .J. Randle, .M. Robinson, .R. Barrett. // 28.1 net rating
44 minutes of W. Ellington, .B. Portis, .F. Ntilikina, .K. Knox II, .M. Robinson. //-10.0 net rating

The Ntilkina lineup, though negative is far less negative than before
And you can see how Harkless presence is felt.
Title: Re: Knicks after the trade deadline
Post by: chipstern on August 06, 2020, 06:42:40 PM
Quote from: Kam on August 06, 2020, 06:38:59 PM
I ran a filter on the last 15 games of the season (after the Morris for Harkless swap)
You can run it yourself here (https://stats.nba.com/lineups/advanced/?Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612752&LastNGames=15&sort=MIN&dir=1&CF=MIN*G*12)
Our top 3 lineup's with a minimum of 12 minutes used were:

92 minutes of .T. Gibson, .M. Harkless, .E. Payton, .J. Randle, .R. Barrett.     //1.4 net rating
51 minutes of .M. Harkless, .E. Payton, .J. Randle, .M. Robinson, .R. Barrett. // 28.1 net rating
44 minutes of W. Ellington, .B. Portis, .F. Ntilikina, .K. Knox II, .M. Robinson. //-10.0 net rating

The Ntilkina lineup, though negative is far less negative than before
And you can see how Harkless presence is felt.

Interesting
Title: Re: DeAndre
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 06, 2020, 07:26:00 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 06, 2020, 03:48:53 PM
My lack of enthusiasm for Dedmon notwithstanding?

DeAndre went at #4, right after RJ.  Basically gave the Hawks 12-4-3 a night, and solid D. 

They are NOT SHOPPING HIM. 

The deal you suggest?  There would HAVE TO BE a #1 pick in there, and/or another piece, such as a Bullock or Dotson, or a Brazdeikis or Knox. 

And again, this forum's lack of enthusiasm for Julius, I would be VERY SURPRISED is the Knicks trade Randle. 

Again, it says here that Thibs gets to COACH him. 

Julius shooting threes and being a point forward facilitator? 

Not a good look. 

A post presence who can get you 20-10 and is a willing 3 dime a night passer? 

Seems like there's something to work with there.

C: Robinson, Gibson
PF: Randle, Wooten
SF/PF: Knox, Harkless
SF: Brazdeikis
SF/SG: Barrett. Bullock, Dotson
SG/PG: Ntilikina
PG: Smith, Harper

That's 13.

No LOCK that Harkless or Dotson are back, but would think they are type of defensive players Thibs would like.

Gibson?  Some sort of cut and re-sign. 

Why?

Projecting?  Defense Offense

Robinson-Randle
Wooten-Gibson

Projecting? 

Ellington?

Gone.

Portis...Peyton?

On the bubble.  Like them both, but a numbers game.  Bobby give you offense, often seems lost on D.  Peyton a good rudder, decent defender and penetrator but we end up playing 4 on 5 offensively because his lack of a reliable jumper simply is not tenable in a starter.  Of course we could say pretty much the same things about Dennis, however....

The draft likely determines FA and Trade decisions going forward.  Not exactly a revelation, that, but summer speculations and more trade

I will say it a TWELFTH time -

Payton stays - unless a PG is added.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 06, 2020, 10:23:22 PM
I think there was an idea last off-season that either Randle or Portis could do some filling in on the back line. Their actual performance in that capacity put that to bed quickly.
Title: Hey Kamster
Post by: carlos123 on August 07, 2020, 12:58:55 AM
Boston didn’t play today, so instead of irrelevant stats I’m just posting a pic. Enjoy!

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTpiHwl-IuroJ85SlT0bpTRZ7PJfGosbCQN0TJZjxMjNQ&s)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 07, 2020, 01:25:48 AM
Some crazy good ball today despite the Celtics’ day off.

Dame was nuts as was GA vs. Miami.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 07, 2020, 01:47:40 AM
You'd think Thibs would want Hark and Taj on his squad.  Defensive role players who set screens and fill gaps.

Elf makes sense as a backup PG.  And starter if we have nothing better.
He's a quality backup, especially if you can string some shooters around him.

I don't think Randle will be easy to trade.
But his future with the Knix depends on whether he can coexist with Mitch.
I don't see it, but we'd want them to develop some chemistry and defensive cohesion and somehow not get in the way on offense.  Looks like iffy D and a clogged paint, while RJB our prized rook needs driving/cutting lanes.

Portis can help score on some team's 2nd unit.  But he's not worth $15M and doesn't fit these Knix.  Far too inattentive on D.  And just doesn't play smart.  Has aggression and scoring prowess (a bit erratic).  Could just remain a wildcard type, or maybe get more focused and understand situations better as he ages. 
Some team will pick him up for $8M, and in the right role he could thrive.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 07, 2020, 02:09:14 AM
If we're going forward with a core of Mitch - RJB - Franc/Elf -- that's three(/4) guys without a 3-ball.  And not much ballhandling/passing.  So you need shooters.
Aside from MaMo who is gone, next we had 3 guys who shot league average on 3's -- Dot, Trier, Portis.  Trier is gone, Portis not likely to return.

So for next year, we're bringing back one young guy -- Dot --who shot league average on 3's.  And likely no one who made more then 1/3 of their 3's.
Our yute core -- RJB, Knox, Franc all shot 32% on 3's.
Jr. Smith 30%; Elf 20%.  Bullox likely can do better than his marginal 33.3%.

Conclusion: Knix desperately need shooters.
(and a starting PG).

I'd love to get Ball in the draft.  But if there was a way to secure Edwards, that would be great too.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 07, 2020, 02:11:01 AM
In terms of production range to salary for guys we have on option or guys we’d have to QO creating cap holds,

Bullock is a good - very good deal as he should be healthy this go round.

Payton is a good - fair deal as a good backup / spot starter who’d be better if he fixed his shot.

Taj is a bit high for what he brings at this point but he’s still productive on the court.

Ellington is a bad deal relative to available talent.

Portis, while a nice offensive and effort player is not worth his option due to defensive limitations.

We start from scratch on Harkless, as he’s a UFA.

If we can QO Dotson and it creates a hold less than seven mil, I think that would be worthwhile.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 07, 2020, 05:15:28 AM
KZ 30 / 9 / 5 -- made all 9 FT's.
Team was -11 v. Clips in the 8 minutes KZ didn't play.

KZ's counterpart Zubac did go off for 21 & 15 and a perfect 10/10 FG
Though didn't see the game, and a lot of that could have been KZ coming over on help defense allowing Zubac to help himself to putbacks.

Trey Burke went 0-7 on 3's.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 07, 2020, 12:03:16 PM
I'd love to get Ball in the draft.  But if there was a way to secure Edwards, that would be great too.



Amen.


Though the best shooters are likely Vassell and Nesmith
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 07, 2020, 12:08:53 PM
I do think you have to seriously consider Wiseman if it goes as NBAdraft.net has it - Edwards, Ball, Toppin, Hayes, Avdija.

Haliburton, Wiseman, Anthony, Achiuwa, Okongwu, Vassell, Nesmith, Carey to choose from.


https://www.nbadraft.net/nba-mock-drafts/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 07, 2020, 12:14:22 PM
Maybe a possibility of trading down to get Vassell and pick up some sweetener for helping another team lower down get Wiseman(?)

After Edwards/Ball, I'm interested in Okongwu.  Seems like a winner.  An energy Big you can start for a decade.  Don't think I even saw video on Vassell yet, but interested in anyone considered the best shooter in the draft.

Avidja and Halliburton probably my next two.
But I'm not a draftnik and have only seen a few minutes of vid on most the Top 7 guys.

I keep hoping that Obi Topcat and Wiseman James, both at times listed at #1 overall in the past, go high, moving more G's and talent we want down to us.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 07, 2020, 12:50:56 PM
So I'm down for:

1.  Edwards / Ball

3. Okongwu
4. Vassell
5. Avidja
6. Halliburton

Edwards seems dynamic and a Day one starter, possible all star, but we'd still need a PG.  Ball seems like a terrific PG but he's very young, and you have to wonder if NYC and our team is a good spot for him to develop.  I'd probably go Edwards because he seems more of a sure thing.  But damn we need a PG.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 07, 2020, 01:06:52 PM
Maybe a possibility of trading down to get Vassell and pick up some sweetener for helping another team lower down get Wiseman(?)



yep
Title: Brad
Post by: carlos123 on August 08, 2020, 01:31:40 AM
Brad gave his friend Kam(s)ter a gift today. Was the Kanter DNP a Birthday Present?

Happy Birthday Kamster!!! 🎂 🎁 🍰 🎈

PS. I know this is a conspiracy theory, but quite harmless compared to the mail-in voting fraud theory and the Antifa violence theory, don’t you think Chico? I know you do 😉
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Pharoah on August 08, 2020, 01:41:46 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 07, 2020, 12:14:22 PM
Maybe a possibility of trading down to get Vassell and pick up some sweetener for helping another team lower down get Wiseman(?)

After Edwards/Ball, I'm interested in Okongwu.  Seems like a winner.  An energy Big you can start for a decade.  Don't think I even saw video on Vassell yet, but interested in anyone considered the best shooter in the draft.

Avidja and Halliburton probably my next two.
But I'm not a draftnik and have only seen a few minutes of vid on most the Top 7 guys.

I keep hoping that Obi Topcat and Wiseman James, both at times listed at #1 overall in the past, go high, moving more G's and talent we want down to us.

Vassel is the sleeper stud....forget the shooting for a moment...his defense is straight out of the pack elite..here's some footage:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPcxiazGSbQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPcxiazGSbQ)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_skPY2BSkY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_skPY2BSkY)
Title: A quarter-million people...
Post by: lesterluv on August 08, 2020, 02:53:23 PM
... who share buttkiidstoopidTM IQ's are expected in Sturgis to spend eight virus-soaked days in the state with the nation's second-highest rate of transmission. Promises to be the best super-spreading event since the Cain-Killer!

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/07/us/sturgis-motorcyle-rally.html
 (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/07/us/sturgis-motorcyle-rally.html)
Watch it unfold live in between games right here — just don't get too close and be sure to #MaskUp!

https://sturgis.live/feeds/main-st-hd-way/ (https://sturgis.live/feeds/main-st-hd-way/)


*** thankfully most homeless people neither know about it nor own Harley's

*** apparently most Harley riders believes drinking alien sperm will make them immune to the virus so they're lining up to give BJ's to the Somali employees down the road at Sturgis Meats.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 08, 2020, 03:40:58 PM
Pharoah, who are your Top 6/Top 7 picks for the Knix?

While excising the bottom 8 means better matchups, it's also the end of the season and teams have started sitting out guys.
LeBJ didn't play the other night.
Clips played the last 3 minutes without a starter (and beat the Blazers).
POR needed the W, LAC didn't.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 08, 2020, 03:54:59 PM
Ben Simmons to undergo knee surgery ...
Title: Re: A quarter-million people...
Post by: carlos123 on August 08, 2020, 05:13:28 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on August 08, 2020, 02:53:23 PM
... who share buttkiidstoopidTM IQ's are expected in Sturgis to spend eight virus-soaked days in the state with the nation's second-highest rate of transmission. Promises to be the best super-spreading event since the Cain-Killer!

#MaskUp!

*** apparently most Harley riders believes drinking alien sperm will make them immune to the virus so they're lining up to give BJ's to the Somali employees down the road at Sturgis Meats. 🤣🤣🤣

Chiconaïvetm

Be nice to Chico!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 08, 2020, 06:01:39 PM
Down all game, DEN with a 4Q comeback capped by Jamal Murray heroics.
The Donovan decides he can do that too, scoring 5 in the last 10 secs for OT.
(also credit Jingles for stealing an inbounds pass)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 08, 2020, 07:14:51 PM
Donovan Mitch made some clutch-ass shots (and played 47 mins).
Jamal Murray in his first game back played 39 mins and nearly had a trip-dub.
Was terrific late 4Q and OT's.

Porter Jr. had a bad 1st half, but battled back and had a nice 2nd half. 
Finished 23 & 11 and a team high +/-.

Love to have guys like Torrey Craig and Royce O'Neal on my team.
And I'll take Jerami Grant as my starting PF instead of Randle.
Wonder how much Grant will earn as a FA?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 08, 2020, 07:22:39 PM
Grant had 2 rebounds

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 08, 2020, 07:39:16 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 08, 2020, 07:22:39 PM
Grant had 2 rebounds

heh

Grant over Randle?

HEH

I love it when we agree. 

BoD, you my man, but that might be the most supercilious thing you've ever typed. 
Title: Dallas
Post by: chipstern on August 08, 2020, 09:28:42 PM
Well, Steve Mills' legacy is set in stone, right up their with the trade that sent Nolan Ryan packing in exchange for Jim Fregosi. 

Otherwise, while I was waiting for Bo to say something snarky about Trey Burke, he drained another trey.

Indeed, he and Hardaway are often feast or famine.  True dat.

Trey's post-bubble three point percentage is a mere 41%. 

Apparently his feast is an all you can eat salad bar. 
Title: Re: Dallas
Post by: chipstern on August 08, 2020, 09:29:27 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 08, 2020, 09:28:42 PM
Well, Steve Mills' legacy is set in stone, right up their with the trade that sent Nolan Ryan packing in exchange for Jim Fregosi. 

Otherwise, while I was waiting for Bo to say something snarky about Trey Burke, he drained another trey.

Indeed, he and Hardaway are often feast or famine.  True dat.

Trey's post-bubble three point percentage is a mere 41%. 

Apparently his feast is an all you can eat salad bar.

PS: And a damn nice Alley Ooop to KP. 

Yawn. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 09, 2020, 12:49:23 AM
They are Mark Cuban’s children now. Knicks pre-playoff elimination allows us to root promiscuously through the bubble.

Don’t know that we ever had a real shot at him, but damn, T.J. Warren doing all the T.J. Warren things. Vic and Brogdon set the table. Turner has his back. Warren is rolling and carrying his team.

The Raps and Clips seem all about business. Jackson is having a revival of sorts in L.A.

Milwaukee and Boston are serious and deep. Miami seems right there as well.

Philly the Lakers and Houston seem beset by drama.

Denver and Portland are tough.

It’s very good to have basketball back, even without the Knicks.
Title: Cuban’s children
Post by: carlos123 on August 09, 2020, 01:00:37 AM
KP is a good player, but the Cuban child making the difference is LUKA THE MONSTER, like I had been telling you for a year prior to the draft. Like I said, he shoulda gone #1, after constantly winning it all in Europe for Real Madrid since age 16. He will win a few titles for Dallas too. Good for Cuban & Co. goin for him with everything they had!

PS. Me and the Kamster looking forward to see what Kanter can do tomorrow 😉
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 09, 2020, 02:30:44 AM
Lukaball is fun.  Guy does some crazy stuff.  Immense creativity.
36 14 /19 v. one of the best defenses.
Wish I saw that game -- though the DEN-UTA 2OT tilt was a jolt x 2.

Jerami Grant is a role player type and has been just a 20-25 min guy.  But possibly could thrive as a starter with more responsibility.  Guy plays D -- they had him guarding Dominate Mitchell down the stretch(es).  Grant been a 39% 3-baller the past two years.  Yeah, we couldn't use a 3&D F who can guard 4 positions.  He doesn't board or pass much, but he is a smart cutter and energetic.  Doesn't need the ball much.  Nice team player. 

Certainly a better use of $15M than Portishead.  And we need to drop Randle.  Grant doesn't really replace Randle because he's much more versatile and likely not a full time starting PF.  We could still use him.  Might go for around $12M.  Actually I was interested in getting him when he was on PHI.  But we could use him now.
Title: Re: Dallas
Post by: bodiddley on August 09, 2020, 04:10:11 AM
Quote from: chipstern on August 08, 2020, 09:28:42 PM
i. 
Otherwise, while I was waiting for Bo to say something snarky about Trey Burke, he drained another trey.
Indeed, he and Hardaway are often feast or famine.  True dat.
Trey's post-bubble three point percentage is a mere 41%. 

I always have a problem with streaky shooters who play poor D.
Consistency is important.  So is D.
As for Trey's treys, he shot 8-10 from distance v. HOU in Bubble Game 1.
Then 3-18 in the other 4 games.  That's some Tim Jr. level streakiness.
Kinda of stuff that drives me crazy.  So his 41% is deceptive. 
And too often when he's hot, it's one-on-one stuff.  But he competes and Carlisle is giving him some good run.  DAL has played 3 OT games in 5 bubblewrapped games.

I do think Tim has rounded his game some and gives better defensive effort than previously.  With guys like Tim and Trey, I prefer them when they get into that 27+ age, where they have sharpened their game some, cut out some of the real bad jacks, become smarter players and more team-oriented.  I'll say the same thing about Muddy, one of my favorite punching bags.  If he stays healthy, I think Muddy will be a better player and a more useful backup in another 3 years or so, when he has more of a vet mentality and understands his role and limits better.  Already he's figured out how to get off midrange shots, and he's a much better rim finisher than he used to be.  Mudman doesn't need to add a 3-ball (though that would be nice), just stop over-dribbling, make a few more reads/passes, do little things like screen and cut.  Same might go for Exum, though haven't seen him in a while.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 09, 2020, 09:26:23 AM
Mudiay cant over dribble with Mitchell and Ingles dominating the ball.  On the Knicks he was tasked with advancing the ball and creating offense

Hardaway has always been an opportune effort defender and a crafty passer - but SNIPER was his lot growing up - and he isnt going away from that - to Dallas's benefit

Cuban has Hardaway in his "CORE 3"
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 09, 2020, 11:24:26 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 09, 2020, 09:26:23 AM
Cuban has Hardaway in his "CORE 3"

Which is why they're not going far.
Be better when Tim Jr. is the 4th option ... or even a reserve. ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 09, 2020, 03:53:58 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 09, 2020, 11:24:26 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 09, 2020, 09:26:23 AM
Cuban has Hardaway in his "CORE 3"

Which is why they're not going far.
Be better when Tim Jr. is the 4th option ... or even a reserve. ...

He’s still a player with an ego fragile enough that it’s a good thing he’s on a team with an owner willing to stroke it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on August 09, 2020, 03:57:54 PM
He so is what he is which is, what? we don't have better? Fck....ok....hmm....alright....let's see what we can get out of him....sigh
Title: Enes Kan(s)ter
Post by: carlos123 on August 09, 2020, 09:37:53 PM
Phenomenal game again: 8 Rebs. and a +7 in only 8 minutes. WOW!!!

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3e5mlBwBlnMb46sMABkXKo-bYeeE-mEg0L4_b_N9SHR9vR011E3QSZsTA9fogQFtPkl82Y7vvyBDnPi5Siuh3r4tJx4NnAtvlE6aPo94tAVVK1q4NWPUKYVzYGzaBrY59UBDYnscnkNz4anVW7cQzls=w1136-h757-no?authuser=0)

Hey Kamster, for your peace of mind I won’t be posting any more irrelevant Kanter stats. Getting a little tired of it myself. Peace ☮️
Title: Why It's Working
Post by: lesterluv on August 10, 2020, 05:32:00 PM
the NBA's strategy
https://www.truehoop.com/p/how-the-nba-is-beating-covid-19 (https://www.truehoop.com/p/how-the-nba-is-beating-covid-19)

despite Florida's Donald DeSantis Head Fully Up Your Ass My Name is kiidcarter8 Strategy
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/florida-reports-record-number-covid-19-hospitalizations-n1236286

Meanwhile, you can barely find a covid patient in most New York hospitals...
http://abcnewsradioonline.com/national-news/new-yorks-covid-19-testing-positivity-rate-reaches-record-lo.html

amazing what semi-competent leadership will get ya...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 11, 2020, 01:12:11 AM
Was thinking the same.
Congrats to the NBA.

Basically testing and isolation.
The mask use seems a bit spotty, but works I guess if everyone is tested and no one can leave.

All along I've said this isn't such a hard disease to contain and largely stop.
We know how respiratory viruses spread.  We know how to limit/stop transmission.
Just takes some leadership and competence and will power.  Could have been stopped twice already in the US.  Shouldn't have been allowed to spread so much to begin with.  Pathetic.  The Trump Plague.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 11, 2020, 04:44:40 AM
Again, a low-paid Kanter as a backup on a good team -- what's not to like?
A highly paid Kanter starting on a bad team -- mucho problemos.
Title: Your Spanish
Post by: carlos123 on August 11, 2020, 10:01:24 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 11, 2020, 04:44:40 AM
-- mucho problemos.

 - - muchos problemas.

If you’re gonna use the language you might as well show some respect.

You’re welcome.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 11, 2020, 10:38:23 AM
Like buenos dias.
I keep thinking that the masculine or feminine should match.
Seems confusing the adjective is -os and the noun -as.

Respect seems like an unnecessary thing to add into the discussion.
Who or what am I disrespecting by making a grammar error?
Why would anyone actually take offense?

I studied Spanish for 5 years in high school, but I mostly forget the verb conjugations so it's hard for me to actually make sentences and hablo espanol.

Whenever the virus gets under control, one of our next family trips will be to Andorra.  So we'll probably make a loop around the Pyrenees.  Flying in/out of Madrid is shorter, but Paris is awfully tempting.  Likely hit Bilbao, Pamplona and San Sebastian looks like a lovely coastal town.  Probably Toulouse and Bordeaux on the French side.  My niece has some Spanish ability, even took a one month course in Madrid maybe 5 years back.

But if/when we are going, I certainly should brush up on Spanish and look over common phrases and even review regular verbs.  A fair amount of Spanish vocab should be buried in my brain ready for a resurgence.  I'm not really sure the extent or level of English in the Basque Region or Catalonia.  As far as I understand they like to play basquetball there.  There are lots of English with summer homes in Spain, but I'm not sure where or how much they just congregate in Little England type villages.  But it's always good if you can/try to speak the national language. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on August 11, 2020, 11:20:48 AM
If you make that trip to Northern Spain, take a turn through los Picos de Europe, just magnificent. Can't recommend strongly enough.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 11, 2020, 11:49:37 AM
Thanks for the advice.  I'll certainly look into it.
Not sure we could get there unless we scratched off France and just made it a Spain/Andorra trip, which is a consideration.

Actually initially I was anticipating a rural France/Andorra trip.  And only added in Spain as I found more to do on that side of the Pyrenees.  San Sebastian looks great, and there's a very highly rated winery near Pamplona, with a crazy Frank Gehry hotel** on the premises.  Then I started thinking of Bilbao, which starts starts leaning towards flying in/out Madrid.  Picos de Europa would be more time in Spain and further from France.  If we just do Spain with Andorra, then that national park fits in quite well.  Good to know!

It's all flexible, but I tend to plan too much.

** Looks like a Dr. Seuss creation:
(https://lonelyplanetwpnews.imgix.net/2019/07/Marques-de-Riscal-e1562678137707.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 11, 2020, 12:03:42 PM
Quote
The New York Knicks have hired Kentucky associate head coach Kenny Payne as an assistant coach, the team announced.

Payne, 53, is the first formal addition to new coach Tom Thibodeau's coaching staff with the Knicks.

"I'm thrilled that Kenny has joined my staff as an assistant coach. He has an outstanding ability to forge relationships with players and improve their skills," Thibodeau said in a statement. "He knows what it takes to win and has learned from one of the best coaches there is in John Calipari.

So Payne would have been Knox's coach his one year at Kentucky.
Maybe that can help ...
Title: Context
Post by: carlos123 on August 11, 2020, 02:21:38 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 11, 2020, 10:38:23 AM

Respect seems like an unnecessary thing to add into the discussion.
Who or what am I disrespecting by making a grammar error?
Why would anyone actually take offense?


BoZ, I don't think you made your "funny" comment with malice, so I'll try to explain.

CONTEXT

Quote from: bodiddley on August 11, 2020, 04:44:40 AM
Again, a low-paid Kanter as a backup on a good team -- what's not to like?
A highly paid Kanter starting on a bad team -- mucho problemos.

When you're responding to a Hispanic person in regular English and throw in a couple of words in intentional or unintentional bad Spanish, you come thru as condescending, as if the language and its speakers are funny, not to be taken seriously, you know, just those funny people. Why don't you throw in a couple of words in Farsi or French? Maybe "those people" are not "funny". Why not keep your reasoning unbroken, like "many problems". You see, if I understood the low-paid Kanter and the highly paid Kanter parts, I'm likely to understand the "many problems" part.

My guess is that you don't have many Hispanic friends, because I can tell you that I'm not the only one who would take offense. Even the question of "Why would anyone actually take offense?" is condescending. Maybe if you replace Latinos for another group that you may know better that is also found "funny" for how they look or how they speak or for anything else, then you would understand "Why would anyone actually take offense."

Now, I wouldn't be surprised if Chico or Trump made a clueless comment. But I think you're better than that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 11, 2020, 04:23:01 PM
Okay, taken under advisement.
I thought you were objecting to my making a language error, and that confused me.
Sometimes it's easy to forget/fail to consider that there are actual people behind the posting here.  And though it bothered you, you didn't make a big thing about it.

I do think Spanish is America's second language and most folks know at least a smattering of it.  I thought I at least knew Spanish phrases okay, and see that I have some of them wrong.  Been too long.  Otherwise, I wish I knew some Farsi and I'm extremely limited in French, even have a lot of trouble spelling their language.  Hope my niece can actually speak Spanish okay.
Title: Language
Post by: carlos123 on August 11, 2020, 04:45:00 PM
BoZ, I could care less about a language error. My English in not perfect after more than 30 years in the US.

Now, Prenez soin de vous et veillez à votre sécurité.

PS. I copied this French phrase from a web translator. I think it means take care and stay safe. Peace ☮️
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 11, 2020, 05:02:43 PM
Czarlos, we can all be clueless now and then.

French leaves me befuddled.  I probably should do a one month online course just to get some basic vocab down.  Russian as well, since I plan to tackle Belarus, Ukraine, Moldova, Kazakhstan and maybe Uzbekistan in the next year or two, depending when international travel becomes a thing again.  I think right now if I leave China, I wouldn't be allowed to return -- though I'm a bit unclear on the specific rules.
Title: Embrace The Payne
Post by: chipstern on August 11, 2020, 05:35:33 PM
Interesting hire for Thibs & Rose. 

Obviously, or not so obviously, Payne mentored both Randle and Knox at Kentucky. 

My projection is that the Knicks are invested, least ways, over the next season, in giving both Julius and Kevin a long, long look. 

I understand the reservations on both, but think there is too much talent to simply bail and reboot.

The Knicks need to develop some patience with their pups.  From Rod Strickland and Trevor Ariza, through _______ & _______, the Knicks, like Steinbrenner's Yankees, too often gave up on young talent. 

Such as the received wisdom (read Dipshit Berman) as to Knox's weak motor and Randle's point forward obsession. 

COACHING.  COACHING.  COACHING.

What direction did Fizdale offer.  Besides weaponizing Randle's weaknesses?  Julius clearly forced the issue far too often, but the notion of him as a point forward facilitating the offense always seemed dubious.  And as someone has pointed out, Knox was progressing in his decision making and aggression, defense and shot blocking, in the season's final stanza. 

Imperfect?

Obviously. 

But presently, what are our alternatives in the short term? 

Now Dennis Smith?  When he first got here, showed some serious talent and energy, but regressed badly last season. 

Draft lottery on August 20. 

If we are in a position to grab Ball or Edwards at our draft slots, that will be telling for the likes of RJ & Dot, Ntilikina & Dennis, let alone Randle & Knox. 

Likewise, do Knicks go for best available PG, or best available talent?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 11, 2020, 07:43:00 PM
Gauging the promise of our pups is one of the key tasks of our front office and coaching staff. Adding 3 guys this year to the group in hand gives them a lot of pups to sort through. It’s why I don’t mind consolidation of picks to move up. It’s going to be puppy central. Let’s see what pups can keep up with Thib’s program and carve out roles as positive contributors to the team.
Title: Whenever you start feeling bad about KP for Dennis Smith jr...
Post by: lesterluv on August 12, 2020, 12:07:10 AM
certainly one of the worst trades in modern basketball history

just remember that the pick that became Damian Lillard for the earthly remains of Gerald Wallace was WORSE

and feel better.
Title: Re: Whenever you start feeling bad about KP for Dennis Smith jr...
Post by: carlos123 on August 12, 2020, 12:24:37 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on August 12, 2020, 12:07:10 AM
certainly one of the worst trades in modern basketball history

just remember that the pick that became Damian Lillard for the earthly remains of Gerald Wallace was WORSE

and feel better.

Les, you my doggie.

You also my therapist.

I do feel a lot better now 🙄
Title: Re: Whenever you start feeling bad about KP for Dennis Smith jr...
Post by: bodiddley on August 12, 2020, 07:34:03 AM
2012 was a relatively weak draft, especially the 1st round.
You have Brow Davis, Beal and Lillard.
After that probably 2nd rounders Dray Green and Middleton.
Then solidish player like Harrison Barnes, Fournier.
Crowder and Will Barton two more 2nd round players.
Weird draft.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 12, 2020, 07:37:43 AM
Knick Trivia:

Which ex-Knick was known as Bar Mitzvah Man (https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/knicks-kyle-oquinn-is-a-major-force-on-the-new-york-bar-and-bat-mitzvah-scene/) during his stint on NYK?

Answer in the link ...
Edit: And now I see our man in a rare start just missed a triple-double by one point last night.  Dang.  They couldn't find him a point somewhere?
Title: Re: Embrace The Payne
Post by: bodiddley on August 12, 2020, 09:26:56 AM
Quote from: chipstern on August 11, 2020, 05:35:33 PM
Now Dennis Smith?  When he first got here, showed some serious talent and energy, but regressed badly last season. 

It was a lost season for Jr. Smith.
But I wouldn't say that means that's all we can expect going forward.
Hopefully he can get his head and body right, work hard in the offseason, and be ready for next season.  He'll have a contract coming up not too far off, and he'll want us to pick up his option (I think that's where he's at).  Money and pride are good motivators.  And Knix at least need to up his value, so both parties with an incentive to improve things.

I'm still up for a full season of Knox and Smith.  Confidence is a huge part of the game, especially for a neophyte.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 12, 2020, 09:36:21 AM
Lillard deserves praise for dropping 61.  But in a must win game, and with McCollum hurting, Melo went for 26 & 8 on 60% shooting from everywhere.  35 mins and a team high +/- among the starters.

KZ with 36 & 6 (7/9 on treys).  A pair of blocks.  We should have gotten at least 2 or 3 Dennis Smiths in that trade ....

Btw, catch Dev Book if you get a chance.  Guy is playing some high-level ball.  Just doing what he wants.  Getting his shots, drawing fouls, making some sweet passes. Impressive the last few games.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on August 12, 2020, 12:33:34 PM
rotfl....

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/trump-calls-nba-players-very-nasty-and-very-dumb-for-criticizing-him-2020-08-11?mod=home-page (https://www.marketwatch.com/story/trump-calls-nba-players-very-nasty-and-very-dumb-for-criticizing-him-2020-08-11?mod=home-page)
Title: Re: Whenever you start feeling bad about KP for Dennis Smith jr...
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 12, 2020, 01:43:29 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 12, 2020, 07:34:03 AM
2012 was a relatively weak draft, especially the 1st round.
You have Brow Davis, Beal and Lillard.
After that probably 2nd rounders Dray Green and Middleton.
Then solidish player like Harrison Barnes, Fournier.
Crowder and Will Barton two more 2nd round players.
Weird draft.


hahaha - you missed so many.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 13, 2020, 10:23:25 AM
No, no I didn't.
I'd have no problem adding Bulldog Drummond in there, but he hasn't exactly had any impact on winning.  And somebody might be a T Ross fan (40% FG this year), but not me.

3 of the Top 5 picks were busts: #2 MKG; #5 ThRobinson; #4 Waiters Island
Two more midround washouts in Royce White & Kendall Marshall
From 18-33, the only player still in the Association is Fournier.

Everyone that I didn't mention is a career backup, Meyers Leonard and Au. Rivers types.  I know you're partial to Au Revoir, but he's a career 42% / 35% / 65% which is all low for a shooter who does little else (and I even rounded all of those up).  Was a starter one year for his Dad.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on August 13, 2020, 11:17:24 PM
Lillard just might get Melo another playoff appearance, win or lose, he is f'n ridiculous.....
Title: Don’t remind me
Post by: carlos123 on August 14, 2020, 12:41:45 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on August 13, 2020, 11:17:24 PM
Lillard just might get Melo another playoff appearance, win or lose, he is f'n ridiculous.....

Les, you don’t have to remind me that one was ours and the other shoulda been.

Donald Pandemic Trump defunding of the Post Office and planned theft of the Election is depressing enough.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 14, 2020, 12:58:05 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 13, 2020, 10:23:25 AM
No, no I didn't.
I'd have no problem adding Bulldog Drummond in there, but he hasn't exactly had any impact on winning.  And somebody might be a T Ross fan (40% FG this year), but not me.

3 of the Top 5 picks were busts: #2 MKG; #5 ThRobinson; #4 Waiters Island
Two more midround washouts in Royce White & Kendall Marshall
From 18-33, the only player still in the Association is Fournier.

Everyone that I didn't mention is a career backup, Meyers Leonard and Au. Rivers types.  I know you're partial to Au Revoir, but he's a career 42% / 35% / 65% which is all low for a shooter who does little else (and I even rounded all of those up).  Was a starter one year for his Dad.


heh
Title: Bonkers
Post by: chipstern on August 14, 2020, 03:14:36 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on August 13, 2020, 11:17:24 PM
Lillard just might get Melo another playoff appearance, win or lose, he is f'n ridiculous.....

That pull up jumper from Jerry West Territory was magical. 

I'll bet when Damian launched that ICBM, even Trae Young said, "Oh, come on now, dude." 

Ironic, that if Jerry West's infamous last second Uber-Clutch heave from mid court had come during the trey magnifique post-ABA Epoch, the Knicks probably would not have prevailed against the Lakers, as this trey would have iced our heroes, instead of simply sending up into overtime.   

I was in the common area TV Room of a college dorm when Mister Clutch hit that shot, and I mean, people just went bonkers. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 14, 2020, 03:50:36 PM
My old friend Stanley Johnson with 23 in 23 minutes so far.  Some sweet drives then started dropping 3's over Bol Bol.  And his usual good D. 

Seems bubble announcing is worse than usual.  Maybe guys like Heinsohn and Leo Rautins didn't bubble up.   Scalabrine acted like he was on a podcast and spent a good 10 minutes laughing at Thomas Bryant for playing hard.  Ignoring much of the game.  They even came back and admitted they checked if he was up for a contract.
They had trouble understanding a guy just plays hard.  And another announcing team who didn't seem to know who Bryant was.  This is his 2nd season as a starter.
He's not obscure.

I don't know who is doing the announcing for TOR, but seems like some fan they pulled off the street, or out of a bar.  Seems like a lot of announcing teams want one guy to be a JVG type, acting goofy and showing enthusiasm.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 14, 2020, 06:33:46 PM
Scalabrine!!!

Funny guy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 14, 2020, 07:27:41 PM
Vlade Divac out; Joe Dumars in as Kings' GM

I thought Vlade was overpraised at times and SacKings continued to do a mediocre job of developing guys or constructing a team. 

Hell, they drafted Bagley over Luka or Trae. 
And didn't have a 1st round pick last year.
I'd have to look more carefully how it all went down.
But Sacto still looks like one of those teams you poach useful young players from.
Like Giles or Bogdanovich or Hield.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 14, 2020, 07:32:18 PM
Bagley's a good player

But (reportedly) like with Knicks - nobody wants to play in Sacto.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 14, 2020, 07:55:32 PM
Fox was a solid pick.  And Blade got a good deal for DeMarcus

I give him a B over the 5 years
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 14, 2020, 09:50:25 PM
Vlade's first move was hiring Joerger as coach.  Solid.

Flipped #8 pick Marquisse Chriss for Bogdanovich and Labissiere = good
Boogie Cousins trade was fairly good.  Needed to get rid of him and got a solid return (Hield, #10 pick, +)

2017 Draft
Fox was a good pick.
Flipped #10 pick Zach Collins for #15 Justin Jackson and #20 Harry Giles.
Vlade outsmarted himself with that one.  Zach is the best player; Just Jax hasn't panned out.  But Donovan Mitchell went #13 and Bam 14.
Can't be perfect, but Vlade could have added Fox and Mitchell.  Or Fox and Bam in one draft.

2017 - gave George Hill a 3/$57M deal to babysit the kiddie corps.  Hope Hill names one of his kids Vlade, at least as a middle name.
Signed an old Zach Randolph as a 2nd vet

2018 - drafted Gary Trent in the 2nd round, then traded him for a worse 2nd rounder in the next draft.   Oops.

Added Bjelica as a FA.
Traded nothing much for Harrison Barnes.

Luke Walton as head coach.
Bagley picked over Luka and Trae.

2019 Summer
overpaid for vets Cory Joe, Ariza, Dedmon, and own FA Barnes
Nice cheap Rich Holmes pickup
Signed Hield to a 4/$94M dealio!  So he's well-Hield now.

Traded Dedmon for Jabari and Len (I like, try some new guys, get out from a bad contract)

I like Vlad's coaching hires: Joerger and Luke.
Divacs was hit or msis on 1st round picks.
Vlad was very willing to make deals with his 1st round picks
Did well moving Chriss; muffed it with Zach/Mitch/Bam

(the 2017 pick disaster (Jayson Tatum!) was from a 2015 deal with PHI just before Vlade was hired and I can't figure out what the deal was all about -- offloading Landry and Jason Thompson's contracts(?).  SAC got the #5 pick which became Fox.  But SAC also lost their 2019 1st rounder in that deal (which became #14 Romeo Langford).  An odd non-Vlad deal.

Vlade tended to overpay old (Hill, Zach, Ariza), or marginal guys (Temple, Deadman).  Vlade had trouble building out a roster and seemed to go for names and vets over lower paid role players.  Lotta roster turnover + yute equals kind of a mess.

Paid a lot to keep Hield and Barnes, and while both have talent, they are overpaid.
Fox will command big money soon too.  Overpaid Hill and Dedman were moved shortly after signing.

So pretty hit or miss on picks and FA signings. 
Tended to overpo=ay vet FA and to retain his own guys.
I think all the $$ Hield and Barnes (and soon Fox) get will hamper the kings going forward. 

Vlade never built a team well.
A decided lack of defenders: Fox, Hield, Bogdanovich, Bjelica, Bagley.
Barnes okay on D; Cory Joe  plays D but is a backup; Rich Holmes crashes around and fouls alot.

I'd give him a C, maybe C+
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 14, 2020, 10:25:02 PM
overpaid for vets Cory Joe, Ariza, Dedmon, and own FA Barnes



Because its Sacto

Lately he had been hell bent on keeping Bogdanovic, who could have netted picks

Picks = staying young

Keeping solid guys is your only hope
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 15, 2020, 05:29:11 AM
Vlade recognized that they needed some vets to help the kiddies.
I just don't think there was much plan regarding fit and chemistry.
Two summers Vlade added rather scattershot vet additions.

Hill (3/$57M), Ariza (2/$25), Deadman (3/$40M) were all clear overpays and didn't work out there.  Cory Joe 3/$37M is a highly paid backup PG, but at least has mostly fit in.  But that's some cap space wasted.

Richuan the only 7 figure pickup I liked.  The type of cheap energy guy Vlade should have been hunting more of.  Vlade went for a lot of Garrett Temple, Tolliver type $8M guys.  A lot of guys who were never gonna help Sacto such as Shump and Alec Burks passed through.

Looks like they got nada for Cauley-Stein, just let him walk as a FA.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 15, 2020, 10:09:28 AM
Vlade is Serbian, as is assistant GM Peja Stojakovic, Chief Operating Officer Matina Kolokotronis and Peja Drobjnak.  The Kings Serbian contingent all know that corner of the world extremely well and speak the same language as Slovenian Luka Doncic.

One theory is that Vlade knew Doncic too well and didn't like his Dad:
https://sportsnaut.com/2019/11/report-vlade-divac-passed-on-luka-doncic-because-he-didnt-like-his-dad/

Hollinger has an article on Vlade and Doncic, but it's behind a paywall and hasn't spread on these here interwebs yet:
https://theathletic.com/1997870/2020/08/14/hollinger-on-vlade-divac-his-luka-miss-what-he-got-right-and-whats-next/

The official version:
Quote
There was ownership support for drafting Doncic No. 2 overall, but Divac, along with then-assistant general manager Brandon Williams and Stojakovic had concerns about Doncic's upside compared to Bagley’s, sources said.

As The Athletic reported last month, the belief that Doncic’s ball-dominance would limit Fox’s ability to grow and that they were better suited pairing him with a talented big like Bagley were driving forces behind the decision.

They failed to take into consideration that Luka was better than Fox, and you build around Doncic more than around Fox.  And that Luka would get their shooters -- Hield, Bogdanovich, Bjelica -- more open looks.

Maybe a Big like Divacs is partial to a more traditional balance of quick G and Big Man down low.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 15, 2020, 11:23:56 AM
Apparently that weird deal with the '6ers was Vlade's first move:

Quote
His initial trade that sent Nik Stauskas, Jason Thompson and Carl Landry to the Philadelphia 76ers cost the Kings two draft swaps and their 2019 first-round pick. The payoff was a one-season rental of Rajon Rondo.

The swaps basically resulted in losing out on Jayson Tatum but getting Fox.

This article isn't balanced, as it doesn't mention the Boogie trade, Barnes acquisition, decent Cory Joe pickup.
https://sports.yahoo.com/kings-vlade-divac-passing-luka-011756611.html
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 15, 2020, 02:42:52 PM
They failed to take into consideration that Luka was better than Fox, and you build around Doncic more than around Fox.  And that Luka would get their shooters -- Hield, Bogdanovich, Bjelica -- more open looks.


Time will tell.

Luka hasnt won anything

Bagley and Fox are tremendously talented.

Draft Luka, deal Fox?

But for what?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 15, 2020, 02:56:09 PM
MARANT seriously out of control
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 15, 2020, 03:45:31 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 15, 2020, 02:42:52 PM
Luka hasnt won anything

In the US ... so far

Quote
Draft Luka, deal Fox?
But for what?

Draft Luka and see how Luka and Fox fit.
And you can always run them 20 mins together, and 14 mins separately.
Having Fox run the 2nd unit when Doncic sits.  (Staggering their minutes just a possibility).

Quote
Bagley and Fox are tremendously talented.

Time will tell.
Let's see if Fox's skinny legs hold up.
If Bag's can get healthy and play some interior D.

Overall, I think Vlade made too many moves and had too much roster churn.
Along with the hefty spending.  Next year Hield and Barnes combine for $47M.

One thing useful is Harrison Barnes' deal is frontloaded and drops by $2M every year, so just $18M in the last year.  Hield's deal also diminishes by $2M per.
That's some good foresight.  Saves around $10M when Fox and then Bags need to be paid, while making Barnes and Hield more tradeable.

I hope Luke sticks around.  I think he has some good ideas.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 15, 2020, 06:16:18 PM
I dont think Luke Walton is a top 80% coach in this league.

And like the players - nobody wants to coach there unless it is a new guy thrilled at any opportunity or a retread who has failed elsewhere - and likely twice.

RE:  players - I think maybe a hard and fast rule wit your commenting should be not to dis any player above a 20 PER.  Start there and you may be fine.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 15, 2020, 07:04:47 PM
POR got a bit lucky that the delay and then restart allowed them to get a healthy Nurk and Zach for the stretch/bubble run.

Too bad Ariza bailed on the restart.  They don't have anyone to guard LeBJ.
Melo is LeBJ's size, but at 36 and never much fo a defender, he's of limited help.
At least between Melo and Ariza they'd have a dozen fouls.

I like Trent Jr. but he's virtually a rook, and a 6'5" wing at that.
Zonja has the requisite size, but he's no defender.

Not sure how they handle LeBJ.
Let him get his and stay home on everybody else?
Lakes missing A Very and Rondo will hurt.
Caruso and others will need to step up.
And means Lakes have no one to guard Dame.
Title: DUH--Luca Hasn't Won Anything
Post by: chipstern on August 16, 2020, 05:24:50 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 15, 2020, 02:42:52 PM
They failed to take into consideration that Luka was better than Fox, and you build around Doncic more than around Fox.  And that Luka would get their shooters -- Hield, Bogdanovich, Bjelica -- more open looks.


Time will tell.

Luka hasnt won anything

Bagley and Fox are tremendously talented.

Draft Luka, deal Fox?

But for what?

DUH

Pretty simple.

Draft Luka

KEEP Fox. 

Hasn't won anything yet?

Yikes > Duh > Seriously? 

The second coming of Larry Bird and you're going to split hairs and play The Contrarian Card. 

HILARIOUS. 

Luka can easily play point forward or the off guard. 

Two points?

Thomas and Dumars were pretty good.  And Vinnie was a combo guard as well. 

We are in the NO SPIN ZONE. 

Vlade FUCKING Blew it. 

Yes, it is hard to pass on generational bigs. 

Hakeem was one.

Sam Bowie, which a nice player, was most surely NOT. 

I believe the same lame rationale then.  We have Clyde Drexler, MJ would be redundant. 

Would you, YOU, pass on Anthony Edwards if Ball is off the board?  Simply because we ALREADY have RJ. 

RJ can play SF and SG, might even be better suited to SF in some matchups. 

Edwards is a combo guard, though admittedly, facilitation is not his strongest suit. 

A good rule of thumb, is draft the best talent, no? 

Kings got Bagley at #2, Atlanta leaped on Luka at #3, and converted him into Trae Young and Cam Reddish. 

Knicks got Robinson at #36.  Remains to be seen if Mitchell proves more impactful.  Bagley was highly regarded.  NO ONE WAS MORE HIGHLY REGARDED THAN LUCA. 

DeAndre Ayton looks to be a very good player going forward.  However the thought of a Luca-Devin back court must give one pause. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 16, 2020, 08:39:24 AM
The second coming of Larry Bird and you're going to split hairs and play The Contrarian Card.



Ludicrous
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 16, 2020, 09:16:29 AM
The safe pick for Portland was PERKINS or BARKLEY, not Jordan

The team to be most criticized is INDIANA, who sent the Bowie (Jordan) pick to Portland for Tom Owens.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 16, 2020, 09:23:15 AM
Would you, YOU, pass on Anthony Edwards if Ball is off the board?  Simply because we ALREADY have RJ.



I have always seen Barrett as a 3.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on August 16, 2020, 09:25:08 AM
Though it's hard to argue against picking  Hakeem, one might argue that Jordan/Sampson might have in the end been more successful than Hakeem/Sampson. Sampson, though he was agile and could run and shoot, wasn't a forward and all his injuries started happening (they might have anyway) when he moved there.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 16, 2020, 09:39:56 AM
Jordan didnt rate statistically as the first pick coming out of school.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on August 16, 2020, 02:39:37 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 16, 2020, 08:39:24 AM
The second coming of Larry Bird and you're going to split hairs and play The Contrarian Card.



Ludicrous

SEZ the man who said "let's get together in Tulsa and Florida and Arizona and spit on each other"

And then everybody got covid as it swept through those three places and thousands died and even buttfuckstoopid's mentor backtracked as fast as he could and called everything off.

And then the man shut the fuck up cause even he realized what a fucking moron he was.

Not ludicrous in the least.....heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 16, 2020, 02:51:11 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 15, 2020, 02:42:52 PM
Luka hasnt won anything

Except ROY.

KZ made 2nd team All-Bubble; Luke 1st
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 16, 2020, 03:36:43 PM
.427/.327/.713 as a rookie

3 pt % went down this year
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on August 16, 2020, 04:04:24 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 16, 2020, 03:36:43 PM
.427/.327/.713 as a rookie

3 pt % went down this year

lmao you don't say. hmm..I guess that percentage drop outweighs being the only player in NBA history with over 20 triple-doubles at age 21 or younger

So who ya gonna trust, a shit-spewing coward with an IQ of 20 or Doc & Rick Carlisle

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2904822-doc-rivers-praises-luka-doncic-as-a-blend-of-larry-bird-and-jason-kidd (https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2904822-doc-rivers-praises-luka-doncic-as-a-blend-of-larry-bird-and-jason-kidd)
https://twitter.com/TimBontemps/status/1292307476910493696
 (https://twitter.com/TimBontemps/status/1292307476910493696)

I'll take the latter duo + add Chip to make it a power trio....heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 16, 2020, 05:38:00 PM
Could Luka be more efficient?
Did his crunchtime magic fade this year?
Sure to both.

But Doncic just completed a 29 / 9 / 9 season with a PER of 27.65.
That would be 6th in scoring, 3rd in assists and PER, 17 in boards.
Wasn't too far from a 30 point triple-double season.

I like how kiid only posts Luka's rook shooting %'s, noting the one that dropped this year, ignoring that his FG% rose nicely to a healthy 46.3% and he upped his FT% to 75.8%.  Doncic also got to the line 9.2 times a game.  4th in the League. 

Luka shot 57.4% on 2 pointers, which is amazing.  But he tends to get layups or fouled and makes midrange shots well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 16, 2020, 05:38:19 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 16, 2020, 08:39:24 AM
The second coming of Larry Bird and you're going to split hairs and play The Contrarian Card.



Ludicrous

Heh. 

I knew that would trigger your gag reflex. 

Gee, a walking triple double, a big wing who can facilitate, get to the rack, shoot from the parking lot, bang the boards and make his teammates better? 

HehHeh.  Yeah....LUDICROUS. 

We all look forward to your next portrait of Jimmer Freddette as the successor to Jerry West. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 16, 2020, 05:45:08 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 16, 2020, 05:38:00 PM
Could Luka be more efficient?
Did his crunchtime magic fade this year?
Sure to both.

But Doncic just completed a 29 / 9 / 9 season with a PER of 27.65.
That would be 6th in scoring, 3rd in assists and PER, 17 in boards.
Wasn't too far from a 30 point triple-double season.

I like how kiid only posts Luka's rook shooting %'s, noting the one that dropped this year, ignoring that his FG% rose nicely to a healthy 46.3% and he upped his FT% to 75.8%.  Doncic also got to the line 9.2 times a game.  4th in the League. 

Luka shot 57.4% on 2 pointers, which is amazing.  But he tends to get layups or fouled and makes midrange shots well.

Watching Luka in the bubble was a startling experience, like when Bobby Orr first hit the ice for the Bruins back in my youth. 

The level of command and maturity being off the fucking grid. 

Luka is still very young, and as I have been wont to point out, often presses the issue and forces things, but probably because in his experience he can make magical things happen. 

As he is surrounded by better and better players, as he matures, as he matures into Carlisle's system...

MY GOD. 

The kid has barely scratched the surface and he is already a walking triple double. 

Plus, he has an edge to go with his phyiscal gifts and hoops skills. 

So, the second coming of Larry Bird is ludicrous? 

How about the second coming of Oscar Robertson? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 16, 2020, 05:51:16 PM
12 straigh years of 47% shooting
14 straight of 80+ from the line

That Oscar?

Luka is a great player

I'll leave it at that.

fuck - Isiah Thomas was recently listed outside the top 30 all time - and you want Doncic up with Bird and Robertson?

Major heh.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 16, 2020, 06:01:38 PM
It's a different era.  Guys shooting lots of 3's are gonna have a lower FG%.
Luka's eFG% last two year 50% and 53%
(Luka's 2pt FG% 50% and 57%).

Luka is even more of a showman than Larry Bird.
And sometimes that hurts Doncic's play.
Title: The Pom Pom Gurl Chronicles
Post by: chipstern on August 17, 2020, 12:20:07 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 16, 2020, 06:01:38 PM
It's a different era.  Guys shooting lots of 3's are gonna have a lower FG%.
Luka's eFG% last two year 50% and 53%
(Luka's 2pt FG% 50% and 57%).

Luka is even more of a showman than Larry Bird.
And sometimes that hurts Doncic's play.

Same thing with Trae Young. 

Still, that is deeply embedded in their recombinant DNA. 

That is what defines their potential greatness. 

There was a Knicks-Hawks game last year, where the Knicks, if not neutralizing Young, were controlling him, and Trae was forcing the action when it seemed as if it wasn't his night.

Then in the fourth quarter, MY GOD.  He took over, and was unstoppable. 

Forcing the action and fucking up is part of their growth curve. 

Going into 2018, I had the hots for LD, Trae and Jaren Jackson...and Michael Porter, who seemed worth putting on ice for a season, not unlike KP, seeming as we were in Tank Mode Zion.  Given our draft slot, Mikal Bridges was my man, 3 & D with a trey, but Kevin Knox still looks to have serious upside: Porter, Shai Gilgeous-Alexander upside?  We shall see, and it seems that the hiring of Kenny Payne has as much to do with nurturing Knox and Randle, in lieu of giving up too early, buying dear and selling cheap. 

Anyway, I'll take LD  & TY's faux pas any day of the week.  Lillard anyone?  Sometimes you need someone who believes that they can amp it up at any moment. 

Anyway, the lottery beckons, and I have odd feeling, that we are going to be Top 3. 

Bu then, I am an insufferable pompom gurl. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 17, 2020, 02:10:14 PM
I didn't see the Jazz going anywhere without Bogdanovich.  Now that Conley has debubbled, they should go meekly.

They need more depth.
I like Tony Bradley and Niang can pop some 3's.  But are they ready for playoff hoops?  No Conley means a lot more Clarkson chucking and Muddy courttime.  We;ll see how that goes...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 17, 2020, 03:46:35 PM
I never heard of Juwan Morgan before.
Only played 130 NBA minutes (47 in last 2 games).
And he got playoff G1 start.
Been rebounding well.
Crazy +17 (next highest Ute +4).

Dwaynewade Mitchell is a nasty mofo.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 17, 2020, 04:27:19 PM
I didn't get Jingles on Murray down the stretch(es).
Jamaal knew he could get his shot off and once a good shooter gets his confidence rolling he can be tough to stop.  Why not Royce on Murray?  DEN went with Jer Grant on Mitchell.  Also, could have mixed it up and tried rook Juwan Morgan a play or to as well.  Murray just killed Joe "Half step late" Ingles.  Quinn the Mighty Snyder gets the blame for that L.

Jingles pops 3's and always finds the open outside shooter.  But he's not a perimeter defender.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 17, 2020, 07:08:59 PM
Philly-Boston

Battle of the clown teams that passed on Fultz/Ball
Title: Clowns Of Renown
Post by: chipstern on August 17, 2020, 07:28:44 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 17, 2020, 07:08:59 PM
Philly-Boston

Battle of the clown teams that passed on Fultz/Ball

Here We Go AGAIN. 

Let's all squeeze Kiid's funny nose.  HONK HONK Honkie. 

As Tatum nails yet another three and Kemba drives to the paint, AND ONE. 

PS: Apros Pos of nothing, but seeing as how you fixated on the odd stat to take a contrarian posture on Luka, and are relentlessly negative about our French Puppy, while both MF and LB made nice progress this past season, Fultz was 36-135 from trey for a .267%, while Ball was 43-76 from he charity stripe for a .566%. 

PPS: Curiously enough, Frank Ntilikina was 44-137 from trey, for a .321%, and 51-59 from the charity stripe for a .864%. In the interest of full disclosure, Frank's overall FG% was a glistening .393%, while Lonzo's was .403% and MF was .465%.  So room for growth all around, no? 

PPPS: Meanwhile Clown Of Renown Jayson Tatum was 189-469 from trey for a .403% and 254-313 for an .812%, tallying 24.6 ppg, 7.3 boards 3.2 assists and 1.4 steals. 

PPPPS: GO FIGURE, eh, numb nutz. 

PPPPPS: Heh

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 17, 2020, 07:45:05 PM
Here We Go AGAIN.

As Tatum nails yet another three and Kemba drives to the paint, AND ON


2 solid teams, surely.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 17, 2020, 07:52:53 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 17, 2020, 07:45:05 PM
Here We Go AGAIN.

As Tatum nails yet another three and Kemba drives to the paint, AND ON


2 solid teams, surely.

Shirley

U

Jest

Rock on, Kiid. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 17, 2020, 08:22:22 PM
MATISSE THYBULE with the clamps on Tatum.

Philly with upper hand.

Kemba 4 for 12

Tatum zero assists
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on August 17, 2020, 09:02:53 PM
Do you watch the games?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 17, 2020, 09:50:03 PM
That game I did.

Denver game I saw the end

Why?  Do you need a recap?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on August 17, 2020, 10:06:09 PM
Given what you think you're seeing it wouldn't help anybody who didn't watch.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on August 17, 2020, 11:09:30 PM
lol, kiid was blind drunk on a homemade cocktail of straight bleach, hydroxychloroquine, and four ounces of demon sperm.
Missed 32 points 13 boards 3 blocks and oh yeah....the win.


*** and a MASSIVE game high +19 +/-.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 17, 2020, 11:15:33 PM
THJ comes alive!!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 17, 2020, 11:18:17 PM
Patrick Beverley appears drunk.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on August 17, 2020, 11:35:48 PM
sorta, making some plays though...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 18, 2020, 02:07:40 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on August 17, 2020, 11:09:30 PM
Missed 32 points 13 boards 3 blocks and oh yeah....the win.
*** and a MASSIVE game high +19 +/-.

Tatum also went 10-11 FT's.
Celts were -11 in the 7 minutes Tatum sat.
And the kid is just 22.

Title: I'm Going To Wash That CLOWN Right Out Of My Head.
Post by: chipstern on August 18, 2020, 03:00:51 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 17, 2020, 08:22:22 PM
MATISSE THYBULE with the clamps on Tatum.

Philly with upper hand.

Kemba 4 for 12

Tatum zero assists

Kiid has raised the art of being an irredeemable dipshit. to the level of an Olympic Event. 

Tatum with 32 points on 10-21 shooting, 10-11 from the charity stripe, 13 rebounds, and 3 blocks. 

Celtics with 22 assists as a team.  Sixers with 23. 

Oh, and as Dawg pointed out, the Celtics won, an insignificant detail, I'll admit, but I'm a sucker for the obvious. 

One assist. 

GO FUCK YOURSELF. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 18, 2020, 03:44:30 AM
Kelly Oubre had a breakout year and kiid kept harping on his low assist rate.
So at least he's consistently misguided.


Too bad KZ got tossed.
But he's got to be aware that he already has a tech in hand.

Looks like MaMo had a fine game for LAC.
And their starters dominated.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 18, 2020, 06:57:33 AM
Tybulle did put the clamps on Tatum

Much made in the ESPN analysis of how Philly staff bypassed a Thybule start - (and we saw what happened with Tatum in half #1)

Tatum is a terrific player.  As is Embiid.

Should be a great series.  At least six games.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 18, 2020, 06:59:50 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 18, 2020, 03:44:30 AM
Kelly Oubre had a breakout year and kiid kept harping on his low assist rate.
So at least he's consistently misguided.


Too bad KZ got tossed.
But he's got to be aware that he already has a tech in hand.

Looks like MaMo had a fine game for LAC.
And their starters dominated.

PG and Kawhi have another gear, surely.  That one could be a sweep, sadly for 77.

But Beverley needs to stop drinking.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 18, 2020, 08:02:24 AM
Porzingis ejection:


KP:   "I have to be smarter next time"

Mark Cuban:  "No comment"

Well handled by Mavs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 18, 2020, 08:04:50 AM
A cookie for the Tatum group:


Jayson did something last night that Larry Bird never did -

30 and 10 with 3 blocks in a playoff game (of course getting the blocked shots stat in there will almost always leave LB out)

QUIZ:   What 3 other Celts have done this?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 18, 2020, 10:18:29 AM
Probably Hondo.
I'll go with a Cornbread siting as well.
And McHale?
(Cowens my next guess).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on August 18, 2020, 10:24:06 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 18, 2020, 08:04:50 AM
A cookie for the Tatum group:


Jayson did something last night that Larry Bird never did -

30 and 10 with 3 blocks in a playoff game (of course getting the blocked shots stat in there will almost always leave LB out)

QUIZ:   What 3 other Celts have done this?

I bet Russell did it a few times but they didn't keep blocked shot stats until the mid 70s

Cowens might have done it in those early 70s teams, but i'm not sure if the blocked stat is there

I bet McHale did it and probably Parrish

if I had to guess between KG and Pierce I'd go with KG

all HoFers and all rafter guys

Tatum will join them

and maybe he'll comp Ball and Fultz when they retire his #

I'll give you tenacious kid-you don't give up a losing argument easily or ever.

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on August 18, 2020, 10:33:39 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on August 18, 2020, 10:24:06 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 18, 2020, 08:04:50 AM
A cookie for the Tatum group:


Jayson did something last night that Larry Bird never did -

30 and 10 with 3 blocks in a playoff game (of course getting the blocked shots stat in there will almost always leave LB out)

QUIZ:   What 3 other Celts have done this?

I bet Russell did it a few times but they didn't keep blocked shot stats until the mid 70s

Cowens might have done it in those early 70s teams, but i'm not sure if the blocked stat is there

I bet McHale did it and probably Parrish

if I had to guess between KG and Pierce I'd go with KG

all HoFers and all rafter guys

Tatum will join them

and maybe he'll comp Ball and Fultz when they retire his #

I'll give you tenacious kid-you don't give up a losing argument easily or ever.

heh
The beauty of Kid's posts is that he trashes Tatum and then in a later post, buried, he states "Tatum is a terrific player."  Just a classic CYA. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 18, 2020, 10:43:02 AM
It wasn't until 73-74 that Blocks and Steals were tallied.

So yeah, KG is a good guess.
I wouldn't think Pierce would get there, but maybe.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on August 18, 2020, 10:45:03 AM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on August 18, 2020, 10:33:39 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on August 18, 2020, 10:24:06 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 18, 2020, 08:04:50 AM
A cookie for the Tatum group:


Jayson did something last night that Larry Bird never did -

30 and 10 with 3 blocks in a playoff game (of course getting the blocked shots stat in there will almost always leave LB out)

QUIZ:   What 3 other Celts have done this?

I bet Russell did it a few times but they didn't keep blocked shot stats until the mid 70s

Cowens might have done it in those early 70s teams, but i'm not sure if the blocked stat is there

I bet McHale did it and probably Parrish

if I had to guess between KG and Pierce I'd go with KG

all HoFers and all rafter guys

Tatum will join them

and maybe he'll comp Ball and Fultz when they retire his #

I'll give you tenacious kid-you don't give up a losing argument easily or ever.

heh
The beauty of Kid's posts is that he trashes Tatum and then in a later post, buried, he states "Tatum is a terrific player."  Just a classic CYA.

He's just trolling now.

Kid can't admit he was wrong when he trashed Tatum in his rookie year, and felt compelled to compound his poor judgement by continually trashing Tatum visa a vis Ball and Fultz.

And kid is nothing but poor judgement just waiting to happen.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 18, 2020, 12:08:32 PM
Unnecessary Musings Dept.

Would people be willing to trade RJB for Lonzo Ball?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 18, 2020, 02:28:10 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 18, 2020, 12:08:32 PM
Unnecessary Musings Dept.

Would people be willing to trade RJB for Lonzo Ball?

No
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 18, 2020, 02:55:08 PM
Markelle!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 18, 2020, 02:56:44 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on August 18, 2020, 10:45:03 AM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on August 18, 2020, 10:33:39 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on August 18, 2020, 10:24:06 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 18, 2020, 08:04:50 AM
A cookie for the Tatum group:


Jayson did something last night that Larry Bird never did -

30 and 10 with 3 blocks in a playoff game (of course getting the blocked shots stat in there will almost always leave LB out)

QUIZ:   What 3 other Celts have done this?

I bet Russell did it a few times but they didn't keep blocked shot stats until the mid 70s

Cowens might have done it in those early 70s teams, but i'm not sure if the blocked stat is there

I bet McHale did it and probably Parrish

if I had to guess between KG and Pierce I'd go with KG

all HoFers and all rafter guys

Tatum will join them

and maybe he'll comp Ball and Fultz when they retire his #

I'll give you tenacious kid-you don't give up a losing argument easily or ever.

heh
The beauty of Kid's posts is that he trashes Tatum and then in a later post, buried, he states "Tatum is a terrific player."  Just a classic CYA.

He's just trolling now.

Kid can't admit he was wrong when he trashed Tatum in his rookie year, and felt compelled to compound his poor judgement by continually trashing Tatum visa a vis Ball and Fultz.



Incorrect.

I have always liked Tatum.  Was the first to tout him here.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 18, 2020, 03:05:02 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on August 18, 2020, 02:55:08 PM
Markelle!!!

I tuned in, ORL up by 12 and Fultz shot an airball 3.  Then got called for traveling a few plays later.   I looked at the box and he was 4-4 FG before I started watching.
He still looks jittery at times.

Did pop in a straightaway 3 a bit later, but his form wasn't pretty.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on August 18, 2020, 03:46:27 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on August 18, 2020, 02:56:44 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on August 18, 2020, 10:45:03 AM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on August 18, 2020, 10:33:39 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on August 18, 2020, 10:24:06 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 18, 2020, 08:04:50 AM
A cookie for the Tatum group:


Jayson did something last night that Larry Bird never did -

30 and 10 with 3 blocks in a playoff game (of course getting the blocked shots stat in there will almost always leave LB out)

QUIZ:   What 3 other Celts have done this?

I bet Russell did it a few times but they didn't keep blocked shot stats until the mid 70s

Cowens might have done it in those early 70s teams, but i'm not sure if the blocked stat is there

I bet McHale did it and probably Parrish

if I had to guess between KG and Pierce I'd go with KG

all HoFers and all rafter guys

Tatum will join them

and maybe he'll comp Ball and Fultz when they retire his #

I'll give you tenacious kid-you don't give up a losing argument easily or ever.

heh
The beauty of Kid's posts is that he trashes Tatum and then in a later post, buried, he states "Tatum is a terrific player."  Just a classic CYA.

He's just trolling now.

Kid can't admit he was wrong when he trashed Tatum in his rookie year, and felt compelled to compound his poor judgement by continually trashing Tatum visa a vis Ball and Fultz.



Incorrect.

I have always liked Tatum.  Was the first to your him here.

Kid why you need to bullshit this forum repeatedly about your Tatum hot take is your business, but no one believes you. People remember the discussions.

If you always liked him as you now insist why did you trash the all-star in the making his entire rookie year?

And you were called on it then, repeatedly and mocked.

He got out of the gate quick made a hugely favorable impression to most observers,(1st team all-rookie) with the exception of one lonely dolt wandering the shores of Elba crying.

And why did you insist the trade giving up the rights to Markelle for Tatum and a lottery pick was a bad trade?

there is no one in the world that knows anything of these players who would insist that was a bad trade.

Most thought it a very good trade at the time, and today a fucking great trade.

Except one lonely cry coming from you.

Kid the entire knick forum knows and accepts you're full of shit and incapable emotionally of owning a simple mistake.

man-up kid.

its well past time.

I think it safe to say for the 3 years in the league Tatum has been a great pick, while Ball and Fultz have underperformed expectations.

But you of course can have whatever hot take you like.

Just wipe yourself after you're done.

and wash up.

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 18, 2020, 04:19:50 PM
Great W for ORL.

Fultz has an ugly 3 shot.  And sometimes looks likes he gonna lose the ball on routine plays, but he came through enough.  I still think TRoss is a mistake player, but he brought some energy and helped.  Vuc was dominant in the 1st half.
I barely remember Gary Clark (who jacked a dozen 3's).
Fournier came alive just in time, was moribund most of the night.

Giannis didn't get inside much.
Lopez and Middleguy weren't effective.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 18, 2020, 04:39:28 PM
hahahaha

Now Tatum is a Hall of Famer.



OK.



Answer to quiz is......

(30, 10 with 3 blocks)

McHale
Parish
PIERCE!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 18, 2020, 05:02:15 PM
I imagine an alternate universe with Lonzo Ball running the Celtics -




and I SMILE.....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on August 18, 2020, 05:06:37 PM
Agreed. You have to think a generational talent would make the playoffs one day.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on August 18, 2020, 05:07:00 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 18, 2020, 04:39:28 PM
hahahaha

Now Tatum is a Hall of Famer.



OK.



Answer to quiz is......

(30, 10 with 3 blocks)

McHale
Parish
PIERCE!

I wouldn't bet against Tatum ending up in Springfield. and i'm hardly the only one who sees a lot of upside for the 22 YO already and all-star, 2-way stud.

You just missed it kid.

Just checked basketballref and Russell had at least 4 30 point 30 rebound play-off games, (2 on back to back games against Philly-Wilt-he also had monster games); Good bet that a guy who lived and defended in the paint better than any player ever, and who anecdotally averaged 6-8 blocks per game, he might have started the Celts 30-10-3 club.

KG did it 4-times with the T'wolves, but not the Celts, should have guessed Pierce
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on August 18, 2020, 05:09:20 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 18, 2020, 05:02:15 PM
I imagine an alternate universe with Lonzo Ball running the Celtics -




and I SMILE.....

and I imagine an alternative universe with Tatum on the 76ers and with another lottery pick and I shudder.

Embiid-Simmons-Tatum  thsts fucking scary and they blew it.

Thank you Danny.

poor kid

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 18, 2020, 08:39:51 PM
OKC getting nothing at all from Shae Gilgy tonight

Gallo playing inspired ball.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 19, 2020, 01:00:30 AM
Knicks pick up an up and comer as associate head coach from the Jazz. He joins Payne from Kentucky on Thibs’ staff.

Lotto on Thursday.

Delete 8 teams get to do camps sometime in September. Micro bubbles? GLeague & NBA guys together possibly.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 19, 2020, 03:30:01 AM
LeBJ put up Luka numbers and they still lost.
LAL shot 16% on 3's.  And 65% on FT's.
AD continues to be the least impactful superstar.

Looks like a terrible game from KCP.  Since he scored 1 Pt and POR guards scored well.  Lotta POR turnovers.

I find myself rooting against LBJ.  I think it's because he moves around hooking up with other stars.

Never heard of Wenyen Gabriel who apparently was tasked with LeBJ some.
They really could use Ariza.  I said they had no matchup for LeBJ, and maybe should just let him get his and shut the others down.  Looks like it worked in G1.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 19, 2020, 03:41:37 AM
I'm a big Brogdon fan and TJ has been a great story.  But I like MIA's rugged team approach, with a few crazy long distance gunners.  Exciting team.
Always liked Dragic and Crowder.  Butler and Bam are special.  Even Olynyk is a lot of fun.

Too bad Oladipo got poked in the eye.  Tough year for him.
Title: Lillard
Post by: chipstern on August 19, 2020, 09:09:35 AM
MAN

On

A

MISSION.

Man alive, did I ever love how he iced the Lakers at crunch time. 

Title: Knicks Staffing
Post by: chipstern on August 19, 2020, 09:21:46 AM
Johhny Bryant from Utah Jazz.

Credited with the development of Gordon Hayward and Lillard.

Press conjecture about the Donovan Mitchell connection, RFA in 2021.

Sort of like Kenny Payne's connections to U. of Kentucky alumnus. 

The free agency teasers are pretty jive if you ask me, but clearly Rose and World Wide Wes have friends throughout the league. 

As for Payne & Bryant, let's see what they can do with what we've already got.  Later for that free agent bullshit. 

Mike Miller appears to be moving on.  Mike Woodson appears to be coming back.  I am not a fan, but Doc respected him, as do TT & ROse, so, we shall see. 

Scott Perry associated with Sacramento Kings front office opening. 

Ex-Jazz new Knick hire Walt Perrin projected as possible GM replacement. 

Wonder where Trier ends up.  Interesting that one of Rose's first moves was waiving him.  What does THAT mean? 

Once our lottery selection position is solidified, the other shoes should begin to drop. 

Not sure anything goes down, until Thibs gets a chance to work out and observe his new charges, come September, right? 


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 19, 2020, 10:39:33 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 18, 2020, 08:39:51 PM
OKC getting nothing at all from Shae Gilgy tonight

Well, he's young and these are the playoffs.
How about Schroder coming up small?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 19, 2020, 10:52:56 AM
Thibs is a serious man.  He's going to get things organized.  I don't think he's coming in to fail and grab an outsized paycheck and walk away.
I'm on board.
I'd like to hear more on his time in Minny and how he dealt with yute and weak defenders and such.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 19, 2020, 12:53:04 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 19, 2020, 03:30:01 AM
LeBJ put up Luka numbers and they still lost.
LAL shot 16% on 3's.  And 65% on FT's.
AD continues to be the least impactful superstar.

Looks like a terrible game from KCP.  Since he scored 1 Pt and POR guards scored well.  Lotta POR turnovers.

I find myself rooting against LBJ.  I think it's because he moves around hooking up with other stars.

Never heard of Wenyen Gabriel who apparently was tasked with LeBJ some.
They really could use Ariza.  I said they had no matchup for LeBJ, and maybe should just let him get his and shut the others down.  Looks like it worked in G1.

Stop trying to analyze game from box score.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 19, 2020, 02:23:38 PM
Quote
The Lakers weren’t a good 3-point shooting team this season. They were 26th in the league at 32.6 percent when play was suspended in March. But in the last nine games, which include the eight seeding games and the opening playoff game, they’re dead last at 28.6 percent.

In that span, Danny Green has shot 9-of-37 (24.3 percent), Kentavious Caldwell-Pope is 5-of-23 (21 percent), and Alex Caruso is 2-of-16 (12.5 percent).

If KCP doesn't show up again, does JEarl Smith or Waiters start seeing time?
Title: Fac
Post by: carlos123 on August 19, 2020, 03:15:31 PM
I like your avatars, so I usually post them in full size

(https://www.rollingstone.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/RS-Voter-Suppression-2020-CMYK-curvedZ.jpg?resize=1800,1200&w=600)

Donald P. Trump doing a great job of voting suppression.

The P. is both for Putin and Pandemic.

PS. Where's Miller going? Hoping for a head-coaching job on a good team for him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 19, 2020, 03:44:35 PM
Credited with the development of Gordon Hayward and Lillard.



heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 19, 2020, 03:46:13 PM
Wonder where Trier ends up. 



You and nobody else.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 19, 2020, 03:50:29 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 19, 2020, 02:23:38 PM
Quote
The Lakers weren’t a good 3-point shooting team this season. They were 26th in the league at 32.6 percent when play was suspended in March. But in the last nine games, which include the eight seeding games and the opening playoff game, they’re dead last at 28.6 percent.

In that span, Danny Green has shot 9-of-37 (24.3 percent), Kentavious Caldwell-Pope is 5-of-23 (21 percent), and Alex Caruso is 2-of-16 (12.5 percent).

If KCP doesn't show up again, does JEarl Smith or Waiters start seeing time?

Yes, Waiters....

unless LBJ asks for someone else.

Jared Dudley also around

Lakers better off playing smaller, without McGee or Howard joining AD.  That would keep Whiteside off the floor some.

Good analysis by NBA Radio's Eddie Johnson, stating Frank Vogel has to have the finger pointed his way - not just LeBron and Davis.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 19, 2020, 04:01:50 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 19, 2020, 03:30:01 AM
LeBJ put up Luka numbers and they still lost.
LAL shot 16% on 3's.  And 65% on FT's.
AD continues to be the least impactful superstar.

Looks like a terrible game from KCP.  Since he scored 1 Pt and POR guards scored well.  Lotta POR turnovers.

I find myself rooting against LBJ.  I think it's because he moves around hooking up with other stars.

Never heard of Wenyen Gabriel who apparently was tasked with LeBJ some.
They really could use Ariza.  I said they had no matchup for LeBJ, and maybe should just let him get his and shut the others down.  Looks like it worked in G1.

Gabriel is another Kentucky kid who’s D, motor, and fundamentals were all ahead of his offense by the time of the draft. Looks like he’s carving himself a role.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 19, 2020, 06:57:04 PM
Hilarious latest mock from Bleacher Report, though they do nail #1-4 pretty solidly.

Knicks get Haliburton at 8 but Cole Anthony falls to 21 and Vernon Carey out of round 1 altogether

(Knicks also add Dukie Cassius Stanley at 27)

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2904419-2020-nba-mock-draft-lottery-simulation-and-1st-round-predictions?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 19, 2020, 08:24:12 PM
I guess Celts have it going pretty good today

Turned it on at 87-67
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on August 19, 2020, 08:39:09 PM
Celts were down 14 in the 1st qtr, but led by a certain player, who, despite 2 quick fouls stayed in, hit 5 of 6 3s, cut the lead. kept it close and took the lead in the 2nd qtr.

Embiid scored a lot, went to the lineva ton. but it was playing 1 on 5, with not a lot of contribution from any other 76er. and surprisingly that usually doesn't work all that well.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 19, 2020, 10:11:54 PM
Saw T Harris miss a 2 footer then turned it off

Did Horford do anything?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on August 19, 2020, 10:56:07 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 19, 2020, 10:11:54 PM
Saw T Harris miss a 2 footer then turned it off

Did Horford do anything?

he was a non-factor.

the game turned in the late 1st qtr and 2nd qtr.

You could sense it was about over.

76ers had nothing and could not stop the Celts running PnR

 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 19, 2020, 11:04:26 PM
I'm hoping Wise Man and Toppin go up high pushing G's down our way.
Killian or Halliburton?  I have no idea, but that's not a bad choice.

Kurucs is one of those guys who spots up 3 feet behind the 3-point line and then takes long 3's for no reason.  No idea why you want to unnecessarily take a lower % shot.  Drives me crazy.

Good to see Luwawu-Cabarrot finding his game.
I thought he looked interesting on PHI a few years back.
A role playing wing with hustle and solid D.
Hit 38% of his 3's this year.

Tyler Johnson came in and brought some energy, but then tried to do a bit too much.
LeVert was a ball of energy but also tried to do too much himself.
Title: 8
Post by: Kam on August 20, 2020, 08:53:47 PM
Slipped in the draft so Charlotte could move up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 20, 2020, 09:05:09 PM
Yup.

We’re out of the Deni, Edwards, and Ball sweepstakes. Pretty sure Wiseman is gone by 8 as well.

Okongwu, Okoro, Toppin, Vassell, Hayes, and Haliburton are the next six on the board. 3 will be likely gone before we pick.

Any of those guys will help.
Title: Re: 8
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 20, 2020, 09:15:45 PM
Quote from: Kam on August 20, 2020, 08:53:47 PM
Slipped in the draft so Charlotte could move up.


heh

time to deal up
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 20, 2020, 09:35:39 PM
In no particular order

if mock goes like this -


https://www.nbadraft.net/nba-mock-drafts/


NESMITH
OKORO
VASSELL
ACHIUNWA
ANTHONY


- but I want to deal up
Title: Chico's safety
Post by: carlos123 on August 20, 2020, 09:57:32 PM
Quote: "- No one will be safe in Biden's America  -"
Author: Chico Cartero.

Comment: Do not worry Chico. Q will protect you.

Follow up question: How do you deal up?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on August 21, 2020, 12:46:43 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 20, 2020, 09:05:09 PM
Yup.

We’re out of the Deni, Edwards, and Ball sweepstakes. Pretty sure Wiseman is gone by 8 as well.

Okongwu, Okoro, Toppin, Vassell, Hayes, and Haliburton are the next six on the board. 3 will be likely gone before we pick.

Any of those guys will help.

Truthfully, what's not to like?  Any of them will be fine additions. None are plug  and play but that's alright.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 21, 2020, 12:56:33 AM
Quote from: FWK00 on August 21, 2020, 12:46:43 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 20, 2020, 09:05:09 PM
Yup.

We’re out of the Deni, Edwards, and Ball sweepstakes. Pretty sure Wiseman is gone by 8 as well.

Okongwu, Okoro, Toppin, Vassell, Hayes, and Haliburton are the next six on the board. 3 will be likely gone before we pick.

Any of those guys will help.

Truthfully, what's not to like?  Any of them will be fine additions. None are plug  and play but that's alright.

Looking at that list, it’s 5 good defenders and Obi.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 21, 2020, 02:46:39 AM
Okongwu & Vassell sound good.
Hayes and Haliburton seem higher risk but interesting.

Probably Edwards, Ball, Wise Man, Obi and Deni will be 5 of the picks ahead of us.
2 of those likely gone, and two there for us.
Title: Deni Avdija
Post by: chipstern on August 21, 2020, 07:21:19 AM
NBA Comparison: Hedo Turkoglu

Strengths: All around talented wing with great size … Versatile, he can play from shooting guard to power forward … Great feel for the game … He possesses a high basketball I.Q … Very competitive, not afraid of the big stage … Jack of all trades, he can do just about everything on the floor … Has all the necessary tools to become a point forward in the future and work as a secondary play maker … Has been exposed to high level competition from a young age and has held his own … He is a better athlete than most people think … Great ball handler for a wing … Can create his own shot … He has shown great signs on Pull Up situations and shooting off the dribble … He already has a very good looking Step Back 3 that helps him punish switches … Attacks closeouts and can go all the way and finish plays at the rim … Very good in the open floor, either as the ball handler or filling the lanes as a wing … Elite court vision, he can see angles that few players his size can … Creative passer … Can play the Pick and Roll at a very good level as the ball handler, since he can either shoot, drive, or pass to the rolling big … He can see the weakside while driving to the basket … Very good in drive and kick situations … Has a good basic post up game which helps him score against smaller opponents either with brute force or with nice footwork … He can turn from either shoulder when he is posting up… Has improved considerably at moving without the ball and is an amazing cutter … Very good rebounder for his position… Versatile on the defensive end, he can guard from point guards to light power forwards … Has a nice low stance on defense … Good lateral quickness combined with his instincts help him stay in front off perimeter players when he is motivated … He gets in passing lanes and his active hands help him make steals … Terrific shot blocker for his position, understands the law of verticality and can make blocks coming from the weakside …

Weaknesses: Has a below average wingspan (6-9) for his size … Needs to continue bulking up, but be careful not to lose his flexibility and mobility … His competitive nature can get the better of him sometimes and make him lose concentration for a few plays … He can lose focus from time to time and look a little lethargic on the floor … Doesn’t have an elite burst which limits him in isolation situations … He has problems blowing by athletic opponents from a standstill, which makes him settle for mid-range shots … His below 70% free throw shooting is alarming for a wing … Needs work in Spot Up and Catch and Shoot situations… He is a streaky shooter for now, he could go hot or cold at any time  … Has problems creating separation against long, athletic opponents for now … He has the tendency to change mechanics when opponents are closing out on him on the perimeter  … Extremely right hand dominant when driving to the basket, which can make him predictable … Left hand needs a lot of work… His lack of elite athletic tools hurts him when he has to finish at the rim against length … Has problems finishing through contact and at times even looks like he is trying to avoid contact altogether … He occasionally gets stuck with the ball in his hands, dribbling, becoming kind of a ball stopper … If he wants to be a good creator at an NBA level he must improve at changing speeds and direction … It would be beneficial for him to add some counters to his post up game … Decision making still needs some work, as he can try to do things too fast or too slow at times, which leads to turnovers  … His passes can be a little off sometimes … Assist/turnover ratio should improve … His energy on defense can be inconsistent … Gets caught up behind screens when he is chasing a shooter … He might be a step too slow when he is guarding a good athlete on the perimeter, which could be problematic … Has problems reading screens on the defensive end in Pick and Roll situations …

Outlook: Deni Avdija is generally considered the best player of his generation in Europe … He has been amazing at FIBA’s Youth championships for years … On paper he is the definition of a new era wing, since he could be a two way force with great offensive skill set and above average defensive potential … His ability to create for himself and his teammates is that makes him so unique … If he ends up in the right environment he has a shot to develop into something special …

Notes: He is Israeli-Serbian… He is the son of Zufer Avdija, a former basketball player who was a member of former Yugoslavia national team… He was one of the best players of U20 Israel team that won the gold medal ot FIBA&#39;s European Championship 2018 at the age of 17 and member of the All-Tournament team … One year later, in 2019, he lead Israel to a second straight gold medal at FIBA’s U20 European Championship and was declared the MVP at the age of 18
Title: A Face In The Crowd
Post by: chipstern on August 21, 2020, 07:29:03 AM
The Look On Leon Rose's Face Was PRECIOUS. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 21, 2020, 08:06:37 AM
Truthfully, what's not to like?  Any of them will be fine additions. None are plug  and play but that's alright.


Thats why you trade up.

But who wants to deal down?
Title: #8
Post by: chipstern on August 21, 2020, 08:09:02 AM
Interesting draft where clear cut franchise players such as Williamson and, to a lesser extent, Morant, are, well, not so clear cut. 

Wolves at #1? Warriors at #2, Hornets at #3? 

I've seen Ball and Edwards and Wiseman projections and think that ishow the Top 3 falls. 

I think a lot of trade options will be explored for teams picking 1-14. 

Right now?

I see the Wolves going with Edwards, but how does GS assess their area of greatest need in the here and now or going forward,  Curry is 31.  Thompson is 30.  Green is 29. 

Hornets are PRAYING Wiseman falls to them.  But I reckon Ball would prove a decent consolation prize. 

From #4-through-#10 is far less clear cut. 

Last year, Jaxson Hayes, Rai Hachimura, and Cam Reddish fell to 8-9-10. 

As for our Knucks this year? 

I agree with the Forum Consensus, that if we keep the pick, someone talented will fall to us. 

My one caveat is that I hope, I pray, we do not make a reach at #8 for a PG.  Rather, pick the best talent on the board.  I believe there is a good chance one of talented second tier PGs will fall to us at #27. 

Offensively, Deni Avdija, and Defensively, Precious Achiuwa, are of interest.  But hey, what do I know? 


Title: Trading
Post by: chipstern on August 21, 2020, 08:11:35 AM
I fail to see how we trade up, least ways, the price of the Top 3 would seem...daunting. 

Not sure how much our #27 pick or one of the Dallas picks could be so leveraged. 

Trading down seems more tenable. 

I am inclined to stay at #8 and get the best available talent. 

https://www.nbadraft.net/2020-extended-nba-mock-draft-2-0/ (https://www.nbadraft.net/2020-extended-nba-mock-draft-2-0/)

This NBADraft.Net projection has Deni Avdija falling to us at #8...not the shooter Gallinari is, but purportedly a better all-around skill set.

Who the fuck knows.  The universe is on fire.  Whatever.  Whoever.  I'll settle for a vaccine, an NBA season, and Trump on Rikers Island.     
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 21, 2020, 08:58:36 AM
I fail to see how we trade up, least ways, the price of the Top 3 would seem...daunting.



Yet when I ask if we should offer Knox and/or Frank in a trade up....



crickets.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 21, 2020, 09:23:08 AM
Avdija is the biggest riser in draft analysis

And suddenly he falls to 8?

Funny.

I'll take it - surely - but won't nearly expect it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 21, 2020, 09:28:25 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 21, 2020, 08:58:36 AM
I fail to see how we trade up, least ways, the price of the Top 3 would seem...daunting.



Yet when I ask if we should offer Knox and/or Frank in a trade up....



crickets.

Maybe because they are so young, and it seems, based on incomplete evidence, a little early to pull the plug, when a new coaching staff and a fresh look awaits.  And really, outside of the Top 3, who has significantly more upside than Knox AND Ntilikina?  Both?  You would.  I would not.   Ball being the prize, right?  Seriously.  Do you think Minny or GS or Charlotte bite? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 21, 2020, 09:29:28 AM
NBAdraft.net guys are a joke

2 weeks back they have DET taking Avdija at 5 - and today its Haliburton?

And with no explanation why they changed it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 21, 2020, 09:31:28 AM
Quote from: chipstern on August 21, 2020, 09:28:25 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 21, 2020, 08:58:36 AM
I fail to see how we trade up, least ways, the price of the Top 3 would seem...daunting.



Yet when I ask if we should offer Knox and/or Frank in a trade up....



crickets.

Maybe because they are so young, and it seems, based on incomplete evidence, a little early to pull the plug, when a new coaching staff and a fresh look awaits.  And really, outside of the Top 3, who has significantly more upside than Knox AND Ntilikina?  Both?  You would.  I would not.   Ball being the prize, right?  Seriously.  Do you think Minny or GS or Charlotte bite?

I deal Knox to get to top 4.

You do - or you don't?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 21, 2020, 09:33:09 AM
at the same time I am not giving up on Knox -

and I also realize he can be used in a later deal.

Draft is important

Free agency and deals for current players more so.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 21, 2020, 09:56:54 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 21, 2020, 09:33:09 AM
at the same time I am not giving up on Knox -

and I also realize he can be used in a later deal.

Draft is important

Free agency and deals for current players more so.

Fair enough. 

I just happen to think that while obviously no one other than Mitchell and RJ are likely untouchable, my sense of things is that Thibs will want to take a long look at everyone.  Frank because of his defense, even if his long term profile is as a sixth man. 

God knows we need shooters.  And Knox has shown promise there.  Consistency?  Not yet.  Still, seems premature to include him in any fire sales. 

PG?

Not sure Van Vleet is on the market, or worth the price, or gives you the same level of productivity outside the Kyle Lowry bubble. 

In any event, Rose sure has his work cut out for him. 

Title: NY Post Mock...WE SHALL SEE
Post by: chipstern on August 21, 2020, 10:16:04 AM
8. Knicks: Precious Achiuwa, SF/PF, Memphis

With Knicks fans calling for Cole Anthony, team president Leon Rose pulls a stunner, selecting a different local, the 6-foot-9 Bronx native, an immediate difference-maker around the basket and on the defensive end. The lone college freshman to average a double-double, Achiuwa can team with Frank Ntilikina and Mitchell Robinson to give Tom Thibodeau the makings of a vastly improved defensive unit.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 21, 2020, 10:22:09 AM
God knows we need shooters.  And Knox has shown promise there.  Consistency?  Not yet.  Still, seems premature to include him in any fire sales.



Deal is for VALUE
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 21, 2020, 10:23:27 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 21, 2020, 10:22:09 AM
God knows we need shooters.  And Knox has shown promise there.  Consistency?  Not yet.  Still, seems premature to include him in any fire sales.



Deal is for VALUE

Should VALUE Manifest? 

Sure. 

But I fear our tradition buy dear, sell cheap. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 21, 2020, 10:25:11 AM
Free agent/potential free agent guards


https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/guard/
Title: POST Mock, 1.0 [Food For Thought]
Post by: chipstern on August 21, 2020, 10:27:22 AM
1. Timberwolves: Anthony Edwards, SG, Georgia
A trio of D’Angelo Russell, Karl-Anthony Towns and Edwards could be a prolific offensive group. Like Russell and Towns, the 6-foot-5 Edwards is wired to score, as his 19.1 points per game as a freshman would suggest. They can all learn how to defend better together.

2. Warriors: James Wiseman, PF/C, Memphis
Assuming the Warriors don’t move the pick or trade down, the 7-foot-1 big man provides a much-needed inside presence, giving them a shot-blocking finisher who complements the explosive scoring duo of Steph Curry and Klay Thompson, and takes pressure off Draymond Green defensively.

3. Hornets: LaMelo Ball, PG, Illawarra Hawks (Australia)
A no-brainer for the Hornets, despite how well Devonte’ Graham played this past season. Ball can be the face of the franchise, a 6-foot-7 playmaker who makes others around him better and is considered by some the top talent in this draft.

4. Bulls: Deni Avdija, SF/PF, Maccabi Tel Aviv (Israel)
Pairing the multi-dimensional 6-foot-9 Israeli with emerging Finnish big man Lauri Markkanen gives the Bulls a dynamic forward tandem for the future. The top international import in the draft, Avdija led Maccabi Tel Aviv to the Israeli League championship at just 19 years of age.

5. Cavaliers: Obi Toppin, SF/PF, Dayton
Toppin gives the forward-needy Cavaliers a young stud to go with the backcourt of Collin Sexton and Darius Garland. The National Player of the Year from Ossining, N.Y., can contribute immediately at both ends, and if he improves his jump shot, Cleveland may have an All-Star in the explosive 6-foot-9 forward.

6. Hawks: Onyeka Okongwu, PF/C, USC
The defense-averse Hawks have the making of a strong offensive team, but they have to be better on the other end of the floor. Okongwu is a step in the right direction, while improving Atlanta’s ability to score in the paint.

7. Pistons: Tyrese Haliburton, PG, Iowa State
Detroit isn’t going anywhere without fixing its point guard problems, making Haliburton the obvious pick. A deadly spot-up shooter, he can run a team and has preferential size at 6 feet 5.

8. Knicks: Precious Achiuwa, SF/PF, Memphis
With Knicks fans calling for Cole Anthony, team president Leon Rose pulls a stunner, selecting a different local, the 6-foot-9 Bronx native, an immediate difference-maker around the basket and on the defensive end. The lone college freshman to average a double-double, Achiuwa can team with Frank Ntilikina and Mitchell Robinson to give Tom Thibodeau the makings of a vastly improved defensive unit.

9. Wizards: Devin Vassell, SG, Florida State
With Bradley Beal potentially on the block, Vassell is a natural fit in the nation’s capital. Even if the Wizards keep Beal, Vassell can play on the wing at 6 feet 6 and take advantage of the attention given to Beal and returning point guard John Wall.

10. Suns: Killian Hayes, PG, Ratiopharm Ulm (Germany)
Narrowly missing out on the postseason will be a plus in the long run for the on-the-rise Suns, who add Hayes, Ricky Rubio’s long-term replacement on the ball. Although his long-range jumper remains a work in progress, the 6-foot-5 Hayes, born in the US but raised in France, is a terrific playmaker and distributor and will be surrounded by skilled shot-makers in Phoenix.

11. Spurs: Cole Anthony, PG, North Carolina
The Spurs are too smart to let Anthony, the son of former NBA point guard Greg Anthony, fall further. While some teams may have been scared off by his freshman year at North Carolina — when a knee injury and poor shooting percentages dropped his stock — San Antonio will see his strengths, from his high-level scoring ability to relentless work ethic and alpha-male character traits.

12. Kings: Patrick Williams, SF/PF, Florida State
Forget his underwhelming numbers in one season at Florida State — Williams averaged just 9.2 points and 4.0 rebounds — because Leonard Hamilton limited his minutes to 22.5 per game. Williams is a physical, skilled and versatile 6-foot-8 forward, and could explode given more space and freedom at the next level. On top of that, he’s the youngest player in the draft, having just turned 19.

13. Pelicans: Aaron Nesmith, SG/SF, Vanderbilt
Zion Williamson and Brandon Ingram could use a space creator like the 6-foot-6 Nesmith, a marksman who shot 52.2 percent from deep and averaged 23 points per game before suffering a season-ending foot injury in January.

14. Celtics (via Grizzlies): Saddiq Bey, SF, Villanova
3-and-D wings are the rage in the league now, and Bey has instant contributor written all over him. He can guard several positions, he shot 45.1 percent from distance this past year and he’s the kind of smart, high-character player who fits the Celtics’ winning culture.
Title: Free Agents
Post by: chipstern on August 21, 2020, 10:32:18 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 21, 2020, 10:25:11 AM
Free agent/potential free agent guards


https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/guard/

Fournier

Clarkson

Van Vleet

Bradley

Payne

Theo Pinson

Jared Harper [5'11"]: G League, 2019-20:   AGE: 22  Points: 20.8   3-PT%: 0.359   FT%: 0.787   Rebounds: 2.8 Assists: 5.7   

I reckon the Knicks are rolling the dice on Harper being a Ty Lawson-styled presence.  Question is, do we have enough faith in Harper to roll the dice on best available player at #8 and whomsoever of the second tier PGs may be waiting at #27? 

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/lawsoty01.html (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/lawsoty01.html)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 21, 2020, 10:33:10 AM
I think Jordan Clarkson is a nice fit
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 21, 2020, 10:35:54 AM
11. Spurs: Cole Anthony, PG, North Carolina
The Spurs are too smart to let Anthony, the son of former NBA point guard Greg Anthony, fall further. While some teams may have been scared off by his freshman year at North Carolina — when a knee injury and poor shooting percentages dropped his stock — San Antonio will see his strengths, from his high-level scoring ability to relentless work ethic and alpha-male character traits



yep
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 21, 2020, 10:43:07 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 21, 2020, 10:33:10 AM
I think Jordan Clarkson is a nice fit

If the price is right. 

Good shooter. 

Average distributor. 

Iffy defender. 

Can score, that's for sure. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 21, 2020, 11:32:33 AM
Clarkson is a streaky gunner who can get hot.
At best he's Crawford.  Pass.

If that's what is available:
Vassell sounds like a nice piece.
I'd be interested in knowing more about Killian Hayes.

I don't see how we move up to Top 4.
GSW could be willing but they don't want our nobodaddies and unproven yute,  That's exactly why they would be trading out of 2.  For them, Wiseman is much better than #8 pick and Knox/Franc.
Unless you think they are trading down from 2 to 8 in a Randle trade.  Dream on.

Bulls and Hornets need to improve their high level talent.  I guess it's possible if say Hayes drops to #8 and that's who they love.  But why would CHA just grab Ball and call it a day.  Bulls and Hornets don't need Knox/Franc.  CHI already had Dunn in the Franc role, and he's a better defender and better PG.

Might be able to swap up to ATL #6 to get Okongwu ...

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 21, 2020, 11:49:40 AM
Quote from: chipstern on August 21, 2020, 10:43:07 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 21, 2020, 10:33:10 AM
I think Jordan Clarkson is a nice fit

If the price is right. 

Good shooter. 

Average distributor. 

Iffy defender. 

Can score, that's for sure.

Can be our lead guard - if we dont draft one and Elfrid is not re-signed

Preferred as Opening Night 1-man to DSJ and Frank.

Could also start at the 2 - yes - if Barrett moves over.

On this team - if we sign Clarkson and bring him off the bench, I am not happy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 21, 2020, 12:00:25 PM
Jon Krawczynski: Trading No. 1 is an option for Wolves. Rosas: “We have an open mind as we go through all of this. We want to do what’s best for this organization. And it means being thorough, being diligent and looking at every option. Draft, trade, free agency, whatever the case may be.” – via Twitter JonKrawczynski
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 21, 2020, 12:36:33 PM
Wolves more likely to take on some of our team option talent in deal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 21, 2020, 12:40:20 PM
Speculation is already rat-a-tat-tatting that Golden State will make the No. 2 pick available in trades, but general manager Bob Myers said that the team must gather a lot more information before it figures out what it wants to do with the selection. The coronavirus shutdown has prevented front offices from reviewing players’ medical records, working them out in person or even shaking prospects’ hands. – via Connor Letourneau @ San Francisco Chronicle



That's TWO.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 21, 2020, 12:45:24 PM
Maybe we can trade GSW Marcus Morris ...

Seriously, what would the Warriors want on our roster?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 21, 2020, 01:23:57 PM
Yahoo Sports mock (https://sports.yahoo.com/2020-nba-mock-draft-40-is-la-melo-ball-still-no-1-020627987.html) has Obi Topcat and Tyrese Halitosis at 3 & 4.

They toss a lot of praise Halliburton's way:

Quote
Haliburton is the most intriguing player in this draft class. He’s a long point guard who played two seasons at Iowa State. Haliburton has a high basketball IQ and is a phenomenal passer and facilitator. He shot 50 percent from the field and 41 percent from three before his season was cut short due to a broken wrist. Haliburton could be a nice puzzle piece joining a young Bulls team that features Coby White and Wendell Carter.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 21, 2020, 02:02:01 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 21, 2020, 12:36:33 PM
Wolves more likely to take on some of our team option talent in deal.

Please. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 21, 2020, 03:21:57 PM
Yahoo Sports mock has Obi Topcat and Tyrese Halitosis at 3 & 4.


Why the fuck do you do this with names?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 21, 2020, 03:23:29 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 21, 2020, 12:45:24 PM
Maybe we can trade GSW Marcus Morris ...

Seriously, what would the Warriors want on our roster?

Don't know - but I was actually thinking Minnesota
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on August 21, 2020, 04:57:16 PM
Gobert is destroying Nokic right now.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 21, 2020, 05:17:07 PM
I wouldn’t hate Saddiq Bey at 8. Dude can shoot, knows the game, and can check a mobile big with an outside game.

Bey
Bane
Tille

To add to our mix would be a fine draft, especially if you had something in the works for Paul or thought VanFleet would take a big offer.

 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 21, 2020, 05:20:22 PM
Tre Jones or Malachi Flynn with the #27 pick?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 21, 2020, 05:27:14 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 21, 2020, 09:29:28 AM
NBAdraft.net guys are a joke

2 weeks back they have DET taking Avdija at 5 - and today its Haliburton?

And with no explanation why they changed it.

Could it be they now are drafting for team fit?  And Detroit is now 7 where Avidja is off the board?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 21, 2020, 05:31:24 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 21, 2020, 05:17:07 PM
I wouldn’t hate Saddiq Bey at 8. Dude can shoot, knows the game, and can check a mobile big with an outside game.

Bey
Bane
Tille

To add to our mix would be a fine draft, especially if you had something in the works for Paul or thought VanFleet would take a big offer.

Thats a fucking D draft
Title: Knicks 8th picks rarely stick
Post by: Kam on August 21, 2020, 05:34:23 PM
2020 ?
2017 Frank Ntilikina
2009 Jordan Hill
2005 Channing Frye
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 21, 2020, 05:38:36 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 21, 2020, 05:31:24 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 21, 2020, 05:17:07 PM
I wouldn’t hate Saddiq Bey at 8. Dude can shoot, knows the game, and can check a mobile big with an outside game.

Bey
Bane
Tille

To add to our mix would be a fine draft, especially if you had something in the works for Paul or thought VanFleet would take a big offer.

Thats a fucking D draft

Keep Bey and Tille and take the big Dukie, Vernon Carey at 27?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 21, 2020, 05:41:43 PM
Quote from: Kam on August 21, 2020, 05:27:14 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 21, 2020, 09:29:28 AM
NBAdraft.net guys are a joke

2 weeks back they have DET taking Avdija at 5 - and today its Haliburton?

And with no explanation why they changed it.

Could it be they now are drafting for team fit?  And Detroit is now 7 where Avidja is off the board?

no

its obviously different guys doing the mocks at the same site

Silly, really
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on August 21, 2020, 09:43:18 PM
you don't get much uglier wins than that.

killed on the boards and at line and couldn't shoot for shit

but they played D all night

but

AWINZAWIN

However that Smart steal down the stretch leading to Jaylen's 3 pt play was a thing of beauty

Marcus is a playa

a linebacker

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 21, 2020, 11:46:33 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 21, 2020, 12:36:33 PM
Wolves more likely to take on some of our team option talent in deal.

Maybe we can trade them KZ for KAT ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 22, 2020, 12:59:54 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on August 21, 2020, 09:43:18 PM
you don't get much uglier wins than that.

killed on the boards and at line and couldn't shoot for shit

but they played D all night

but

AWINZAWIN

However that Smart steal down the stretch leading to Jaylen's 3 pt play was a thing of beauty

Marcus is a playa

a linebacker

He looks very smooth and comfortable on offense which is a bit scary.

Dallas is done.

Denver is in serious trouble.
Title: Miami
Post by: chipstern on August 22, 2020, 07:06:38 PM
Really love the Heat's culture and cohesion and commitment. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 23, 2020, 12:53:45 PM
and concupiscent curds ...

Seems like a lot of PG's might fall to mid/late round.
At #27 (or even 38) maybe NYK can snag:
Kira Lewis Jr.
Tre Jones
Malachi Flynn
Nico Manion
Cassius Winston - Michigan State Senior

Thoughts on these guys?
Flynn and Winston are small.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 23, 2020, 02:19:35 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 23, 2020, 12:53:45 PM
and concupiscent curds ...

Seems like a lot of PG's might fall to mid/late round.
At #27 (or even 38) maybe NYK can snag:
Kira Lewis Jr.
Tre Jones
Malachi Flynn
Nico Manion
Cassius Winston - Michigan State Senior

Thoughts on these guys?
Flynn and Winston are small.

Knicks claiming of diminutive Auburn point guard JARED HARPER off of waivers might prove a diamond in the rough. 

G League for Phoenix last season, averaged 20.8 ppg, 2.8 boards, 5.7 assists, .787 FT% and .359% from trey. 

5'11"

Puts one in mind of Ty Lawson. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CstLpJCWnrE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CstLpJCWnrE)

Not the most efficient shooter in college, but he can get to the rack and hit the long trey.  Led Auburn to a Final Four appearance.  Knicks cut Kadeem Allen in lieu of giving Harper a long look. 

Auburn coach Bruce Pearl told The Post recently Harper’s ability to pull up from deep makes him more dangerous as a penetrator. Harper said he’s working on mid-range jumpers off the dribble — in isolation or pick-and-rolls.

We shall see. 
Title: Speaking Of Diminutive PGs
Post by: chipstern on August 23, 2020, 02:40:33 PM
Kemba Walker, all 6'0" of him. 

Playing with so much joy and purpose for the Celtics. 

His first playoff series, and MAN, is he ever bringing it. 

Kyrie Irving is a MF. 

But Kemba a much better match for the Celtics. 

And more durable. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 23, 2020, 03:11:28 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 23, 2020, 12:53:45 PM
and concupiscent curds ...

Seems like a lot of PG's might fall to mid/late round.
At #27 (or even 38) maybe NYK can snag:
Kira Lewis Jr.
Tre Jones
Malachi Flynn
Nico Manion
Cassius Winston - Michigan State Senior

Thoughts on these guys?
Flynn and Winston are small.

My thoughts were given on a couple of them already (Jones, Winston)

Hearing Mannion going back to school.
Title: Re: Speaking Of Diminutive PGs
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 23, 2020, 03:12:19 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 23, 2020, 02:40:33 PM
Kemba Walker, all 6'0" of him. 

Playing with so much joy and purpose for the Celtics. 

His first playoff series, and MAN, is he ever bringing it. 

Kyrie Irving is a MF. 

But Kemba a much better match for the Celtics. 

And more durable.

Let's see how far they get.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 23, 2020, 03:52:34 PM
KZ out with a sore knee.
(I saw he was listed as probable last game).
Trey Burke starting ...

BOS-TOR should be a good series ...
Title: Dallas
Post by: chipstern on August 23, 2020, 08:03:13 PM
Barn burner with the Clips. 

Happy to see the much maligned Trey Burke and Timmy Hardaway come up big in the clutch.

And that never won anything, comparing him to Larry Bird is ridiculous [BITE ME] Luca with a 43-17-13 and a mega clutch long three at the buzzer in OT to win it.  DAMN. 

Kawhi and Sweet Lou awesome. 

GREAT FUCKING GAME. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on August 23, 2020, 08:50:57 PM
I don't know if he's Bird, but he sure reminded me of Magic circa 1980 v Philly in the Finals.
Title: Tatum
Post by: carlos123 on August 23, 2020, 10:13:41 PM
Hey Bank, you didn't rub it in with Chico that Tatum had 4 assists today.

So I'm doing it for you.

heh
Title: Re: Tatum
Post by: bankshot1 on August 23, 2020, 10:32:49 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on August 23, 2020, 10:13:41 PM
Hey Bank, you didn't rub it in with Chico that Tatum had 4 assists today.

So I'm doing it for you.

heh

thanks Carlos but playing the I told you so game with kid is mostly a waste of time, he's too locked into his hot takes to deal in facts or reason.

Title: Yeah... but
Post by: carlos123 on August 24, 2020, 12:34:27 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on August 23, 2020, 10:32:49 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on August 23, 2020, 10:13:41 PM
Hey Bank, you didn't rub it in with Chico that Tatum had 4 assists today.

So I'm doing it for you.

heh

thanks Carlos but playing the I told you so game with kid is mostly a waste of time, he's too locked into his hot takes to deal in facts or reason.

Yeah, you’re right, he’s kinda hopeless.

Still, as Chico’s Latino guardian angel, I gotta keep on trying.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 24, 2020, 01:02:29 AM
Some times Tatum reminds me of James Worthy.
I think it's the clever drives.
Tatum does a nice job of taking his time on post-ups and drives, but sometimes just explodes through.

TOR-BOS should be a lot of fun.
Hope Lowry is okay.  Gets a few days to recover.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 24, 2020, 03:34:14 AM
Brett Brown was lamenting that without Simmons the '6ers had no one to guard BOS dynamic young wings.  Well, they drafted Mikal Bridges (#10) a fine wing defender, but flipped him to PHX for Zhaire and a 1st rounder (MIA's 2021 pick). 

Bridges would be a fine matchup for Tatum.
Zhaire played 30 minutes ... this season.
And with the emergence of Shake Milton, unclear if there's a spot for Zhaire.
(besides Bridges, Shai and Porter Jr were also on board, though it's hard to imagine them intentionally drafting another injured Big after what they went through with Embiid and Simmons).  Bridges or Shai would have helped a lot.

Looks like PHI outsmarted themselves again.
In B2B drafts:
Trading up for Fultz cost them Tatum and a 1st rounder; trading down cost them a very solid 2-way Bridges for a non-playing Zhaire and a 2021 1st.

To make matters worse, Mikal Bridges was a Villanova product and his mom worked for the '6ers.  And still they botched it.

EDIT: Brett Brown traded Mikal Bridges to the Phoenix Suns for Zhaire Smith and Miami’s unprotected 2021 first-round draft pick when he was interim general manager.  So Brown did it to himself.

Quote
To be fair to Brown, trading Bridges wasn’t the lone dark spot of his tenure behind the desk. He also traded away Richaun Holmes for cash, a pair of promising young wings (Justin Anderson and Timothe Luwawu-Cabarrot) for Mike Muscala, and struck out spectacularly in free agency, but hey, at least he traded away the rights to Kostas Antetokounmpo for Shake Milton on draft night, that one kind of worked out.

I've long been a Rich Holmes fan.  He just wants it more than most.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 24, 2020, 05:09:28 AM
I’m thinking the par offseason at this point that gives Thibs options might look like this

Draft Vassell a big (maybe Carey or Oturu or Stewart

Sign Serge and Jerami Grant as FA’s

Bring back Taj, Payton, and Bullock

Mitch Taj Oturu
Serge Randle
Grant Knox Iggy
RJ Bullock Vassell
Frank Payton DSJ

There is still a spot for someone else to make the team, draft pick, FA, or as a result of a trade.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 24, 2020, 09:08:30 AM
Bridges would not have been any kind of Tatum answer

Mr Z Smith (INJ) may/may not end up a player

Bigger miscue was dealing Markelle.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 24, 2020, 09:09:34 AM
In the end, roster disparity and Vets under performance (nod of course to BOS defense) was Philly's demise in a series that was easy to predict (albeit not so much as a sweep)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 24, 2020, 09:20:48 AM
Fultz to Knicks not a bad idea for 2021-22, though I would not be surprised to see ORL keep him
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 24, 2020, 11:48:41 AM
Sure, we need another PG who can't make a 3.
I can imagine the 3-point contests between Jr. Smith, Elf and Fultz.  Franc could win!
Fultz still pretty shaky on both ends.
Makes a lot of mistakes.
Doesn't look in good shape either.
We're not the right team for him to get right.

Bridges one of the best young wing defenders with good size.
Guy is hard to score on and puts out good effort.
Check out PHX sometime.  I saw them a bunch this season, including three bubble games.  Bridges D stood out.

Rubio (29) - Book (23)- Uber Kelly (24) - Bridges (23) - Ayton (22)
Real nice young starting lineup.
CamPayne might be the backup PG they needed.  He looked sharp in the Bubble.
Cam Payne (26) - Cam Johnson (24) - Saric - Baynes.

Maybe draft Okoro at #10 - a wing defender who can spell Book some.
Or go for a backup Big.  Achiuwa is a strong 6'9" who can play 4/5.
Oturu, more of a real C, another possibility.
Achiuwa might be the smart move in case Ayton misses time.

Suns in good shape.  Had a great bubble.  And Book a genuine star.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 24, 2020, 12:16:39 PM
Fwiw, Draftnet has Knix taking Avidja at #8, (https://www.nbadraft.net/nba-mock-drafts/) with Vassell going 9.
I'd be happy if we had a choice of those two.

Halliburton has been getting buzz the past week or so, and thy have DET taking him at #7. 

They also have Tre Jones, Malachi Flynn and Cassius Winston all going after our #38 2nd rounder.  Kira Lewis at 26, one spot ahead of our pick, so in our range.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 24, 2020, 12:31:42 PM
Sure, we need another PG who can't make a 3.


Fultz

3-7 in playoffs

6-17 in bubble pre-playoff
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 24, 2020, 12:35:55 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 24, 2020, 12:16:39 PM
Fwiw, Draftnet has Knix taking Avidja at #8, (https://www.nbadraft.net/nba-mock-drafts/) with Vassell going 9.
I'd be happy if we had a choice of those two.

Halliburton has been getting buzz the past week or so, and thy have DET taking him at #7. 

They also have Tre Jones, Malachi Flynn and Cassius Winston all going after our #38 2nd rounder.  Kira Lewis at 26, one spot ahead of our pick, so in our range.

QUICKLEY of Kentucky is a nice player - and Payton Pritchard falling to 45 is a joke.

OKORO or ACHIUWA would be the others I consider at 8 with Avdija the way that mock plays....

and of course a trade down with a look at ANTHONY is also wise.

LEON, what say you?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 24, 2020, 01:50:53 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 24, 2020, 12:31:42 PM
Fultz
3-7 in playoffs
6-17 in bubble pre-playoff

His form is poor, his release is slow.
I guess he could improve.  Still quite young.
I saw him shoot an airball 3 in the playoffs and the bubble play.
26% for the season on very few attempts.
Title: Fultz
Post by: chipstern on August 24, 2020, 02:35:39 PM
Oh, Lordy. 

A Fultz Fredette Backcourt Would Certainly be PROVOCATIVE. 

Agree with Bo.  The Sixers drafting and then trading Bridges was positively bizarre. 
Title: Conjuring some conjecture
Post by: Kam on August 24, 2020, 06:44:39 PM
Leon Rose may also be thinking about trading the #8 pick for a player.  Rookies take time to develop so trading for a proven player has appeal.  Especially since his coach is not known for playing rookies.   If a package of Randle and the #8 pick returns a good young veteran I think the braintrust would be interested.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 24, 2020, 09:42:47 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 24, 2020, 01:50:53 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 24, 2020, 12:31:42 PM
Fultz
3-7 in playoffs
6-17 in bubble pre-playoff

His form is poor, his release is slow.
I guess he could improve.  Still quite young.
I saw him shoot an airball 3 in the playoffs and the bubble play.
26% for the season on very few attempts.

2-4 again today

15-7-5-2 vs league's best.

Title: Re: Conjuring some conjecture
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 24, 2020, 09:43:37 PM
Quote from: Kam on August 24, 2020, 06:44:39 PM
Leon Rose may also be thinking about trading the #8 pick for a player.  Rookies take time to develop so trading for a proven player has appeal.  Especially since his coach is not known for playing rookies.   If a package of Randle and the #8 pick returns a good young veteran I think the braintrust would be interested.


No

Randle stays
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 24, 2020, 09:48:46 PM
Phoenix BRIDGES doesnt score near enough

File him with Frank.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on August 24, 2020, 10:01:47 PM
sure, lol, additional file label "can actually be a starter on winning team"
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 24, 2020, 10:12:04 PM
2-4 again today




Added to the 9-24, that's .393, isn't it?


-  Why...   yes it is.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on August 24, 2020, 10:27:57 PM
Jeez, LeBron is is still absurdly great.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 24, 2020, 11:28:26 PM
Is that from the "just in" file?
Title: Wow!
Post by: carlos123 on August 25, 2020, 12:16:49 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 24, 2020, 11:28:26 PM
Is that from the "just in" file?

I'm sure Yank is devastated by your "finely honed sarcasm".

Did you get that from D. Pandemic T.?

You're trying to be mean and that ain't nice. If you keep that up I'm gonna have to stop protecting you. Then you'll have to ask Uncle Joe for help, cause Q can't do it. In case you didn't know it, Q is a fake.

Chico, behave yourself!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 25, 2020, 02:01:26 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 24, 2020, 09:48:46 PM
Phoenix BRIDGES doesnt score near enough
File him with Frank.

51% / 36% / 84%.  Nice splits.
All up from his rook season.  He can expand on that.
No reason he can't be a 12-15 point scorer, take an extra 3 per game.
It's good to have guys who play strong D, can score, but are okay as role players not needing the ball.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 25, 2020, 02:21:44 AM
Fultz's main trick is to get somebody on his butt and keep him there.  An old Chris Paul trick.  And make some midrange shots.  His game is similar to Muddy's right now, though with a little speed.  It's Fultz's first year as a starter, so hopefully all that shakiness and on-the-verge-of-a-miscue stuff will wear off. 

I'd definitely keep an eye on him, much like I tried to do with Mud, Exum, and other young highly drafted PG's who didn't pan out early.  A good roll of the dice for ORL who has needed a PG for almost as long as NYK.  But Fultz made $10M this year and $12M next.  Might be available for half that on his next contract, or league average $8M.  Obviously depending on next year's performance.  Probably a better option when he's making reserve money.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 25, 2020, 09:35:55 AM
Speaking of Chris Paul..........

TRUE LEADER.  Showed it again yesterday.

Great series of NEW NBA basketball.  Prefer DAL-LAC of course - but watching the best in the world is still precious - even in its bombs away form

Most three pointers in any NBA first round about to be set.  More have been taken than last year, in 9 fewer games

HOU with 50+ attempts all 4 games.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 25, 2020, 09:38:16 AM
It's good to have guys who play strong D, can score, but are okay as role players not needing the ball.


True.

No hope for Knox in this respect, sadly.  AAA-groomed as a scorer, not a winner.  Nova Bridges the opposite.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on August 25, 2020, 10:50:00 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 25, 2020, 09:38:16 AM
It's good to have guys who play strong D, can score, but are okay as role players not needing the ball.


True.

No hope for Knox in this respect, sadly.  AAA-groomed as a scorer, not a winner.  Nova Bridges the opposite.

Bridges a fine compliment on a team with Booker, Ayton, etc..

Knox. Yes. Oof. Let's see what Payne can do with him.


*** In all fairness, he did improve some areas last season, he really did. At a pace that projects him as NBA-ready in 2034.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on August 25, 2020, 10:55:41 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 25, 2020, 09:35:55 AM

Great series of NEW NBA basketball.  Prefer DAL-LAC of course - but watching the best in the world is still precious - even in its bombs away form

It certainly is, isn't it?

Aren't ya glad one smart-as-fuck Democrat (Mr. Silver) overcame the idiocy of your moronic GOP leaders and using brains, not assholes, managed to deliver this gift to us?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 25, 2020, 12:07:16 PM
Been some fine playoffs so far.

I saw Schroder listed as OUT for G4.  Then find out he scored 30 to squeak out a needed W to tie the series 2-all.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 25, 2020, 12:09:56 PM
If I were Thibs, I'd run defensive drills for Knox and tell him his minutes are based on his defensive effort.  I'd also try to fix the way he makes himself small at the rim on drives.  Knox needs to up his motor and play more physical.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 25, 2020, 01:16:11 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 25, 2020, 12:09:56 PM
If I were Thibs, I'd run defensive drills for Knox and tell him his minutes are based on his defensive effort.  I'd also try to fix the way he makes himself small at the rim on drives.  Knox needs to up his motor and play more physical.

Making sense. 

Still....Motor?

CONFIDENCE.  CONSISTENCY. 

Morris got all his minutes, and there was no rhyhme nor reason to his usage. 

WAY TOO FUCKING EARLY to give up on him.  He has the potential to give us minutes at PF & SF in the new Small Ball world of the NBA. 

Kenny Payne, please pick up the hospitality phone. 

PS: ISAAC OKORO gettng a lot of draft love on the internet.   
Title: The Ludicrous CHRONICLES
Post by: chipstern on August 25, 2020, 01:28:57 PM
Jalen Rose, ESPN analyst and 13-year NBA veteran: “I have never compared a player to [Larry Bird] until now. … In the modern game, if he was facing the floor as the primary ball handler, he would look like Luka.” Mark Jackson, former NBA player and coach and current broadcaster: “To me, Luka Doncic is an absolute combination of Magic Johnson and Larry Bird.” – via Tim MacMahon, Kevin Pelton @ ESPN

A bemused rival executive sent a text as Doncic took yet another trip to the free throw line during an early-season game. “Looks like Luka has seen every Beard game ESPN tape from the past 3 years,” the executive texted. “He’s using all the tricks.”

Steve Kerr, Golden State Warriors head coach: “He’s got this James Harden skill set with crossover and step-backs. He’s a brilliant player and so young, and he’s going to be one of the cornerstones of this league for a long time.” Doc Rivers, LA Clippers head coach: “He’s a combination of a lot. [James] Harden, in some ways. Obviously the Larry Bird comparison. … He has great vision, LeBron-ish. There’s a lot of people in him. But I think … when he retires, people are going to say he was Luka.” – via Tim MacMahon
Title: Re: The Ludicrous CHRONICLES
Post by: bodiddley on August 25, 2020, 02:11:51 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 25, 2020, 01:28:57 PM
Mark Jackson, former NBA player and coach and current broadcaster: “To me, Luka Doncic is an absolute combination of Magic Johnson and Larry Bird.”

That's what I said yesterday.

I really wonder where he picked up some of his repertoire.
Must have watched a lot of film.
I really liked those early 1Q drives last game where he tucked the ball in barreled into a guy then stopped and made a little lean back layup.  Guys his age usually don't have such tricks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 25, 2020, 02:46:29 PM
KZ out for G5 with a sore knee ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 25, 2020, 03:01:48 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 25, 2020, 02:46:29 PM
KZ out for G5 with a sore knee ...

Didn't he miss game 4 also? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 25, 2020, 03:44:58 PM
Yeah, KZ was a game time decision for G4.  Then sat out.
I thought with the extra few days off that he'd be ready for G5.
Unfortunate.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 25, 2020, 05:10:40 PM
I googled his injury.  This is not his surgically repaired knee, and an MRI revealed no structural damage, which makes his absence from a second straight playoff game a bit strange.  Mavs are being cautious but if there was ever a time to play through a little soreness the playoffs would be it.
Title: Re: The Ludicrous CHRONICLES
Post by: chipstern on August 25, 2020, 05:33:18 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 25, 2020, 02:11:51 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 25, 2020, 01:28:57 PM
Mark Jackson, former NBA player and coach and current broadcaster: “To me, Luka Doncic is an absolute combination of Magic Johnson and Larry Bird.”

That's what I said yesterday.

I really wonder where he picked up some of his repertoire.
Must have watched a lot of film.
I really liked those early 1Q drives last game where he tucked the ball in barreled into a guy then stopped and made a little lean back layup.  Guys his age usually don't have such tricks.

A) He has a gift

B) He has a gift

C) He spent several years in Europe playing against...M-E-N.

D) He is ascending before our very eyes, and has yet to even hit his stride.  He is still a Puppy.  Then again, Oscar Robertson, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird each came out firing on all cylinders. 

E) BoD, that tuck the ball move, drawing the contact?  Right out of the James Harden Home Companion. 
Title: Still....
Post by: chipstern on August 25, 2020, 05:34:17 PM
But tell me, tell me, tell me more about Fultz. 

Heh. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 25, 2020, 07:15:45 PM
Jokic with 18 21 1Q points ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 25, 2020, 07:31:51 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 25, 2020, 02:46:29 PM
KZ out for G5 with a sore knee ...

uh huh...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 25, 2020, 07:33:55 PM
Love watching CLARKSON.
Title: Re: Still....
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 25, 2020, 07:35:27 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 25, 2020, 05:34:17 PM
But tell me, tell me, tell me more about Fultz. 

Heh. 

You mean Fox?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 25, 2020, 07:43:55 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 25, 2020, 07:15:45 PM
Jokic with 18 21 1Q points ...

Then what happened?


Hero ball has limits
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 25, 2020, 08:48:24 PM
Michael Porter can just fucking PLAY (offense).

Good finish ahead.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 25, 2020, 09:47:07 PM
Doncic punched Reggie in the head.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on August 26, 2020, 12:17:12 AM
It's really something listening to Doc on the TNT post-game calling out racist assholes like you! Calling out Trump & the Republicans for pushing out the lies like the one in your siggy...powerful stuff.

"All you hear is Donald Trump and all of them talking about fear. We're the ones getting killed. We're the ones getting shot. ... It's amazing why we keep loving this country, and the country does not love us back."
Title: QChico
Post by: carlos123 on August 26, 2020, 12:40:58 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on August 26, 2020, 12:17:12 AM
It's really something listening to Doc on the TNT post-game calling out racist assholes like you! Calling out Trump & the Republicans for pushing out the lies like the one in your siggy...powerful stuff.

"All you hear is Donald Trump and all of them talking about fear. We're the ones getting killed. We're the ones getting shot. ... It's amazing why we keep loving this country, and the country does not love us back."

Les, Chico believes that Q will protect him. The poor thing is deranged.

Uncle Joe will protect you and me, and even Chico.

That is, if D. Pandemic T. doesn’t manage to steal the election. O Lord!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 26, 2020, 02:11:22 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 25, 2020, 07:43:55 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 25, 2020, 07:15:45 PM
Jokic with 18 21 1Q points ...
Then what happened?
Hero ball has limits

They won with Murray making 14 of 18 shots for 33 second-half points to stave off elimination.

Jokic set the tone.  Also played the entire 2nd half.
Dozier gave DEN some good minutes with MonteMo not doing much.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 26, 2020, 06:53:16 AM
Yo Chipster, old time drummer Charli Persip passed on a few days ago age 91.  NJ cat who did a good deal of teaching in NYC. 
https://www.drummerworld.com/drummers/Charli_Persip.html
https://www.wbgo.org/post/charli-persip-virtuoso-drummer-who-cut-swath-through-modern-jazz-dead-91
Without really realizing it, I have a ton of music that he played on.
Weston's Uhuri Afrika; Kirk's We Free Kings, etc.
Title: Charli
Post by: chipstern on August 26, 2020, 08:09:01 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 26, 2020, 06:53:16 AM
Yo Chipster, old time drummer Charli Persip passed on a few days ago age 91.  NJ cat who did a good deal of teaching in NYC. 
https://www.drummerworld.com/drummers/Charli_Persip.html
https://www.wbgo.org/post/charli-persip-virtuoso-drummer-who-cut-swath-through-modern-jazz-dead-91
Without really realizing it, I have a ton of music that he played on.
Weston's Uhuri Afrika; Kirk's We Free Kings, etc.

Thanks, Bo. 

I knew Charli

I wrote about him on my FACEBOOK feed. 

Dizzy Gillespie/Sonny Stitt/Sonny Rollins - Sonny Side Up [1957]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdb8P-xwAmc&t=246s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdb8P-xwAmc&t=246s)

Charli Persip with Superband - In Case You Missed It  [1984]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oyb2vi8tXOE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oyb2vi8tXOE)

PS: An elderly drummer upon his passing, but decidedly NOT an old timey drummer, 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on August 26, 2020, 10:42:51 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on August 26, 2020, 12:17:12 AM
It's really something listening to Doc on the TNT post-game calling out racist assholes like you! Calling out Trump & the Republicans for pushing out the lies like the one in your siggy...powerful stuff.

"All you hear is Donald Trump and all of them talking about fear. We're the ones getting killed. We're the ones getting shot. ... It's amazing why we keep loving this country, and the country does not love us back."

Doc was so eloquent and emotional and on-point. His post-game comments about how he feels to be a black man in America was so damn powerful and thought provoking. His anger and sadness was so real. I just wanted to give the guy a hug.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 26, 2020, 11:57:35 AM
Gentry, McMillan and Spoelstra are probably 3 of my favorite coaches.
2 down ... at least Spo is safe.

McM got a lot out of a ragtag Pacer team the past few years, integrated new payers every season, kept winning, but was hurt this year by Sabonis being hurt, and Oldipo not being 100%.

I'm fine with Thibs, but Knix could have waited to see who would shake free after the season ended and teams lost in the playoffs.  On the flipside, if Thibs is your guy, lock him up before positions open with better teams.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 26, 2020, 05:03:32 PM
Season over -

see ya at the draft.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 26, 2020, 05:22:25 PM
Trump is starting a cross burning league so you won’t feel you have to completely miss out on sports.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on August 26, 2020, 06:47:24 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 26, 2020, 05:03:32 PM
Season over -

see ya at the draft.

lol...dont hurry back! Ain't like anybody gonna miss your cowardly racist ass...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on August 26, 2020, 06:47:55 PM
The players should ask TNT and ESPN for time to express their views unfiltered to the American people

If you want us to perform for you in the bubble, first you listen to us.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 26, 2020, 08:28:32 PM
This mock draft has Okoro at 6 and Cole Anthony 7, giving the Knix their pick of Okongwu, Vassell, Killian Hayes or Ty Halliburton.
https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/celtics/2020-nba-mock-draft-70-celtics-go-long-first-round
Seems rather unlikely, but that would be simply ideal from the Knix point of view.
(that's probably my order, though I haven't seen Killian at all)

They also have RJ Hampton going 13 to NOP, which is way higher than I've seen elsewhere.

Also the Knix taking Malachi Flynn @ 27 (with Cassius Winston going 28).
Title: Poor Chico - 2
Post by: carlos123 on August 26, 2020, 08:48:33 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on August 26, 2020, 06:47:24 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 26, 2020, 05:03:32 PM
Season over -

see ya at the draft.

lol...dont hurry back! Ain't like anybody gonna miss your cowardly racist ass...

Poor Chico, he's good for laughs. Let him be back and "Be Best" by posting only moderately.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 27, 2020, 05:03:27 AM
My guess is that since the players are already there, they'll finish things out.
One or two more games and another 5 teams will be heading home anyway.
Will be down to 8 teams then.

Let's say they call it quits and exit the bubble.
The post-season never gets finished.
How many of those players on the remaining 8 playoff teams are actually going to engage in public protests or take any meaningful actions?

Not sure how much money is at stake right now.
But might as well play things out, and both the players and league take some of their earnings and set up a foundation to organize folks to vote, to learn non-violent protest tactics, to spread news/info, and hire lawyers to represent those abused by police at the margins (homeless folks and indigents).
Title: See You At The Apocalypse--ALL LIES MATTER
Post by: chipstern on August 27, 2020, 08:18:37 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 27, 2020, 05:03:27 AM
My guess is that since the players are already there, they'll finish things out.
One or two more games and another 5 teams will be heading home anyway.
Will be down to 8 teams then.

Let's say they call it quits and exit the bubble.
The post-season never gets finished.
How many of those players on the remaining 8 playoff teams are actually going to engage in public protests or take any meaningful actions?

Not sure how much money is at stake right now.
But might as well play things out, and both the players and league take some of their earnings and set up a foundation to organize folks to vote, to learn non-violent protest tactics, to spread news/info, and hire lawyers to represent those abused by police at the margins (homeless folks and indigents).

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/31/dd/d0/31ddd002d3989e3fed74eb00491bdea8.png)

Season Over?

How about AMERICA OVER?

(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/297/872/2f3.jpg)

See you at the draft. 

How about SEE YOU AT THE APOCALYPSE?

$45 Has Basically Given The Scum Of The Earth A Hall Pass To Crawl Out From Under Their Rocks And Into The Light Of Day. 

On a personal level, the events of the past few days not only put me in mind of Breona Taylor & George Floyd, but of Isaac Woodard & Emmett Till, of Medger Evers & Dr. King, of Charlottesville & The Tree Of Life Synagogue in Pittsburgh. 

Compare and contrast the police response to George Floyd & Jacob Blake with Dylan Roof & Kyle Rittenhouse, between public execution/lynchings with the police offering dumb ass white boy/mass murderers Burger King and Bottled Water.

I am not anti-police, I am not pro-destruction of property. 

But in NYC, the aptly name Patrick LYNCH, heads up a Patrolmen Benevolent Association, which has never met any act of non-professionalism or police violence that they didn't circle the wagons for, and whose union recently endorsed Donald Trump for President, by which one may presume to conclude that ALL LIVES Do Not MATTER.  That while ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL, Some Men Are More Equal Than Others. 

ALL LIES MATTER

(https://image.spreadshirtmedia.com/image-server/v1/compositions/T812A348PA3140PT17X60Y69D1010850328S26/views/1,width=500,height=500,appearanceId=348,backgroundColor=fff/all-lies-matter-distressed-look-with-white-text-mens-premium-t-shirt.jpg)
Title: Before & After [Dolph & Kyle Getting Religion]
Post by: chipstern on August 27, 2020, 09:00:09 AM
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/rqUvuAL6uSY221ZgOhBMGPvM3g8UlGVkKWxsEsynrGcWsiTAR1zb3r4B3qCriRNsUqw-euDgvMMu9Wteu3iafuESGZf2emXl)

(https://i.insider.com/5f47111bdb1ed0002971429a?width=1100&format=jpeg&auto=webp)

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on August 27, 2020, 09:16:19 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 27, 2020, 05:03:27 AM

How many of those players on the remaining 8 playoff teams are actually going to engage in public protests or take any meaningful actions?

Not sure how much money is at stake right now.
But might as well play things out, and both the players and league take some of their earnings and set up a foundation to organize folks to vote, to learn non-violent protest tactics, to spread news/info, and hire lawyers to represent those abused by police at the margins (homeless folks and indigents).




Bo, over there, I don't think you quite get what's going on here. The level of anger.

After Jacob Blake.
After Kyle Rittenhouse was encouraged by the police before the shooting.
Allowed to walk away by the police after the shooting.
The day after a racist president urged him on him by bringing the St. Louis duo on stage at the RNC.

How many? A hell of a lot..most? half? You can bet the two most important. Lebron & Kawhi. They're the two leading the charge to cancel the season.

And as for the earnings share, it's not about a $. It's about enough is enough.
The stuff you're talking about, it's already happening. This ain't some bullshit faux celebrity posing.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/24/us/politics/lebron-james-poll-workers.html
 (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/24/us/politics/lebron-james-poll-workers.html)

If they decide not to play, it's because they decide other things are way more important and they've got things they need to do.

If they decide to keep playing it's because they decide continuing to be on their stage is the best way to amplify their voices, but it won't be to for a dollar slice.

But they've already had a huge impact with the move rippling through sports.

Shut up and dribble ain't happening.

*** I also don't think you get how personal this is. Every black person. Every person of color. This has nothing to do with people at the margins (homeless folks and indigents), though after 400 years, every black person is still "at the margins." Just stop and think for a second. This is how Masai Ujiri's moment of celebration went. Masai F'ing Ujiri.

https://www.thenation.com/article/society/masai-ujiri/

Title: WORD
Post by: chipstern on August 27, 2020, 10:01:46 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on August 27, 2020, 09:16:19 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 27, 2020, 05:03:27 AM

How many of those players on the remaining 8 playoff teams are actually going to engage in public protests or take any meaningful actions?

Not sure how much money is at stake right now.
But might as well play things out, and both the players and league take some of their earnings and set up a foundation to organize folks to vote, to learn non-violent protest tactics, to spread news/info, and hire lawyers to represent those abused by police at the margins (homeless folks and indigents).

Bo, over there, I don't think you quite get what's going on here. The level of anger.

After Jacob Blake.
After Kyle Rittenhouse was encouraged by the police before the shooting.
Allowed to walk away by the police after the shooting.
The day after a racist president urged him on him by bringing the St. Louis duo on stage at the RNC.

How many? A hell of a lot..most? half? You can bet the two most important. Lebron & Kawhi. They're the two leading the charge to cancel the season.

And as for the earnings share, it's not about a $. It's about enough is enough.
The stuff you're talking about, it's already happening. This ain't some bullshit faux celebrity posing.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/24/us/politics/lebron-james-poll-workers.html
 (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/24/us/politics/lebron-james-poll-workers.html)

If they decide not to play, it's because they decide other things are way more important and they've got things they need to do.

If they decide to keep playing it's because they decide continuing to be on their stage is the best way to amplify their voices, but it won't be to for a dollar slice.

But they've already had a huge impact with the move rippling through sports.

Shut up and dribble ain't happening.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 27, 2020, 10:12:29 AM
I'd come up with an NBA wide strategy to affect change, with the players and teams participating, instead of all the players dispersing and mostly doing things on their own.  The visibility of both playing and speaking out I believe has more voice than ending the playoffs which will get huge attention for at most a week, and thereafter much harder for NBA players to make news and get their message out.

Lotta things can be done:
- Playoff shares can go to the families of victims of police brutality.
- Extend playoff halftimes by 5 minutes in which an NBA player or one guy from each team playing int hat game is featured discussing race issues and some of the victims of racism.
- get out the vote campaigns can be undertaken by NBA players
- plenty more that didn't just come to my head in 2 minutes of thought

LeBron has a platform and the name recognition, reputation and money to carry out whatever he wants to do.  But most NBA players can't manage that much without support from their teams (backed by billionaire owners).

Share your views and talent can happen.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on August 27, 2020, 10:22:25 AM
The canceling of sports playoffs cause players are tired of seeing a police lynching a week will be an earthquake.

The ramifications will last way longer than a week — across sports. When the Bucks decide to walk, it spread way beyond the NBA.

Players individually and communally participating in actions against injustice in the run-up to election 2020 would be huge. Why do you think they would be on their own?

Each of those players can have a huge impact in their own community. LeBron will always grab his national stage.

Most of the things you are talking about are already happening in one way or another.

Doc didn't wait to get his 5 minutes of mike he was "alotted" in halftime or select a slogan from a preselected list. He just took the fucking mike.

The players (and coaches) have been talking about all of those things, you best believe, and a hundred more well before they came to the top of your head in two minutes of thought.

A strong case can be made to play or not. They'll decide how they want to go and what they think will be most impactful.

It would be great if they just halted play before the end of the deciding championship game to prevent another Masai Ujiri incident...leave it unfinished forever. That would be a statement, lol...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 27, 2020, 10:48:54 AM
Team and NBA support is much more likely and dedicated while the players are working and making money for the owners/league.

Teams and players in the Bubble are getting a lot more time and attention to their views than any NBA players not participating.

It would be nice to see the NBA force Dolan's hand and see him sponsor some BLM/anti-racism rallies and such.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on August 27, 2020, 10:58:34 AM
IMO a boycott or strike is not enough, America will forget the NBA in a heartbeat and watch the NFL in a couple of weeks.

I think the NBA players should leverage the economic power they have and ask their partners (ABC-ESPN, TW-TBS) for TV time to air panel disussions over the nexxt couple of days (there will be no games through the week-end) so as the NBA players can air their grievances in a very publc manner. They can use that platform to reach and teach millions of Americans of what it is to be black in America. To grow up with constant fear, hatred and racism shaping their dreams.

You want us to entertain you, fine, but first you listen to us.

I think a very public airing could be a very powerful teaching, mobilizing and organizing with significant social and political impact.

Speaking as a clueless white guy IMO the messages could be

Protest

Organize to enact the changes you desire

Register to vote

VOTE

this could be a great opportunity to reach and teach millions of Americans in a thoughtful peaceful way.

If the black guys who have made in this country it are scared and pissed and feel disenfranchised, imagine the how the average black man or woman feels every fucking day about living the American dream.

Let the player voice their anger and frustrations and teach and maybe open eyes.

AND THESE ARE THE GUYS WHO MADE IT!

Or maybe like gladiators of ancient times, they simply turn to Caesar, raise their swords and proclaim, "we who are about to die salute you"


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on August 27, 2020, 11:03:09 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 27, 2020, 10:48:54 AM
Team and NBA support is much more likely and dedicated while the players are working and making money for the owners/league.


lol, keep hopping on the plantation you good little junglebunnies..

The players are the league.

They have the power. They know it. They'll decide what to do with it. The league will follow along.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 27, 2020, 12:15:34 PM
No they aren't.
If they were, why wouldn't they just cut out the NBA and the owners -- old white billionaires mostly-- and stage their own games and make all the money instead of just half?

When the games are being played, the NBA and its players have the highest profile and most media attention.  That seems obvious and factual to me.  I'd use that megaphone while its turned on.

Also, in case you haven't noticed there are white players in the NBA.  Roughly 20%.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on August 27, 2020, 12:43:27 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 27, 2020, 12:15:34 PM
No they aren't.
If they were, why wouldn't they just cut out the NBA and the owners -- old white billionaires mostly-- and stage their own games and make all the money instead of just half?

Oh, they are, as much as you'd like to think they're just slaves who are best served hopping to the tune for their meals. And they've certainly thought about that and will continue to, and when they think it's in their best interest they will.

Quote

Also, in case you haven't noticed there are white players in the NBA.  Roughly 20%.

Oh, I've noticed, and in case you haven't noticed, many of them, like many white people outside the league, care just as much about these issues as black people.

***this isn't 1961
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/08/27/bill-russell-nba-boycott/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/08/27/bill-russell-nba-boycott/)

Russell led the infuriated pair and K.C. Jones, another Black player and future Hall of Famer, to the room occupied by legendary Celtics Coach Red Auerbach. Upon hearing that they intended to take the next flight back to Boston, Auerbach asked that the players reconsider, asserting that the seats were already sold and the game would be played.

Russell, who by then had helped Boston to four of its 11 championships with him, would not be swayed. Instead, he made it clear that it was better for him and his Black teammates to walk away, and leave Lexington with a nonintegrated game.

“I told Red we were leaving,” Russell recalled in 2013. “I said it was because it was important to me that everybody, everywhere, knows that the Black players are deciding they’ll stand up for themselves.”

A fifth Black player for the Celtics, rookie Al Butler, left with them, and two Black players for the Hawks joined the boycott. One of those St. Louis players was Cleo Hill, a first-round pick earlier that year who was also denied service in Lexington. He earned the wrath of the Hawks’ owner, was subsequently ostracized by Hagan and other White teammates and — in something of a foreshadowing of the fate that would befall Colin Kaepernick — he was out of the NBA after that season.

By contrast, Celtics owner Walter Brown told Auerbach that the game should not have been played at all and vowed to “never to subject my players to that embarrassment again.” Ramsey also declared his “100 percent” support for Russell and the other Black players.

“No thinking person in Kentucky is a segregationist,” Ramsey said then. “I can’t tell you how sorry I am as a human being, as a friend of the players involved and as a resident of Kentucky for the embarrassment of this incident.”

However, the team’s biggest star at the time, Bob Cousy, did not say anything about the episode. Despite his friendship with Russell, he never thought to reach out to the center about the racist treatment Cousy saw Russell receive in Lexington, Boston, St. Louis and so many other places the Celtics visited. Many years later, he would send Russell a copy of Ta-Nehisi Coates’s “Between the World and Me” with a note that Cousy said amounted to a “mea culpa.”

“Looking back on it, I should have done more to share your pain,” Cousy said in 2018 of his note to Russell. “I’m sorry I didn’t.”

Not that Cousy’s former teammate, a towering figure in so many ways, really needed anyone to speak up for him.
Title: Assholic
Post by: bodiddley on August 27, 2020, 12:48:17 PM
So did Les just use the term junglebunnies and in such a way as to attribute it to a paraphrase of me?

Why yes, Les is being a bigger asshole than usual.
Stop attributing racist shit related to slavery and racial slurs to me.
Title: Re: Assholic
Post by: lesterluv on August 27, 2020, 12:58:57 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 27, 2020, 12:48:17 PM
So did Les just use the term junglebunnies and in such a way as to attribute it to a paraphrase of me?

Why yes, Les is being a bigger asshole than usual.
Stop attributing racist shit related to slavery and racial slurs to me.

Yes I did. Because that's the attitude you're espousing.

Bo Knows What's Best for Blacks***

from now on I'll just abbreviate BKWBFB

***especially those indigent homeless types in the margins

Bo also knows how whites are supposed to feel BAKHWSF

***because he knows how white people are supposed to feel, at least one, himself -(don't really give a F, here's what's best for you, let's just keep feeding at the trough please)


***P.S. I'll be sure to send on your two-minute top of the head suggestions to the NBA players association cause I'm sure they're in dire need.
Title: and of course, the Knicks cannot help but be the Knicks...
Post by: lesterluv on August 27, 2020, 02:01:03 PM
botching everything in a very Bo-eque fundamental misunderstanding of the situation.

https://www.si.com/extra-mustard/2020/08/27/nba-protests-jacob-blake-knicks-statement (https://www.si.com/extra-mustard/2020/08/27/nba-protests-jacob-blake-knicks-statement)

“The league’s decision”? The decision was taken entirely out of the league’s hands. That statement completely erases the significance of the players’ actions. It attempts to frame the postponement of the night’s slate of games as another example of the NBA’s corporate-friendly brand of social justice. It denies that the players have agency here and that they have the power to force the league to do things it doesn’t want to do.

It’s not surprising that the Knicks, of all teams, would be the ones to botch the response. After all, this is the franchise that sat on its hands refusing to make even the simplest statement against racism after the killing of George Floyd, before finally saying something two weeks later.

No matter what the Knicks say, though, the public realizes that the players are the ones holding the cards. If LeBron doesn’t want to participate in the playoffs, then you don’t have any playoffs. A business is nothing without the people who make it what it is—and that’s not the bosses.
Title: Re: and of course, the Knicks cannot help but be the Knicks...
Post by: chipstern on August 27, 2020, 02:34:03 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on August 27, 2020, 02:01:03 PM
botching everything in a very Bo-eque fundamental misunderstanding of the situation.

https://www.si.com/extra-mustard/2020/08/27/nba-protests-jacob-blake-knicks-statement (https://www.si.com/extra-mustard/2020/08/27/nba-protests-jacob-blake-knicks-statement)

“The league’s decision”? The decision was taken entirely out of the league’s hands. That statement completely erases the significance of the players’ actions. It attempts to frame the postponement of the night’s slate of games as another example of the NBA’s corporate-friendly brand of social justice. It denies that the players have agency here and that they have the power to force the league to do things it doesn’t want to do.

It’s not surprising that the Knicks, of all teams, would be the ones to botch the response. After all, this is the franchise that sat on its hands refusing to make even the simplest statement against racism after the killing of George Floyd, before finally saying something two weeks later.

No matter what the Knicks say, though, the public realizes that the players are the ones holding the cards. If LeBron doesn’t want to participate in the playoffs, then you don’t have any playoffs. A business is nothing without the people who make it what it is—and that’s not the bosses.

I don't think the Knicks were consciously dissing the players. 

More like someone made a post depending on the GRAMMERLY App. 

In any event, yes, the players precipitated the response, but compare and contrast THE LEAGUE & ITS OWNERS, with the scum bags in the NFL who drove Colin Kapernick out of the game and took four fucking years to catch up to mankind.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on August 27, 2020, 03:21:09 PM
yup, much better league, and in general, group of owners, great mgmt at the top makes up for a few Dolans — love to see the season continue, but am completely down with however whatever players decide. Look like it will, players, governors, league office, NBPA meeting this afternoon:

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-boycott-live-updates-players-agree-to-resume-playoffs-per-report-league-eyeing-friday-or-saturday/live/ (https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-boycott-live-updates-players-agree-to-resume-playoffs-per-report-league-eyeing-friday-or-saturday/live/)


*** But does that mean our racist house imbecile returns too? If so, this bud's for you in advance:
"Coronavirus: Texas health officials issue warning after spike in people ingesting bleach to treat disease" https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/coronavirus-texas-poision-centre-bleach-ingestion-warning-a9687936.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/coronavirus-texas-poision-centre-bleach-ingestion-warning-a9687936.html)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 27, 2020, 03:27:15 PM
Gee, the players decided to continue the playoffs, what a surprise ...
Title: Not A Good Look, Dude
Post by: chipstern on August 27, 2020, 03:32:36 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 27, 2020, 03:27:15 PM
Gee, the players decided to continue the playoffs, what a surprise ...

Did Kiid just hack your account?

(https://s3.amazonaws.com/cmop_production/images/5180/large/makenight_cutout.jpg?1578429061)

What exactly prompted you to gift us with such a snarky piece of condescension. 

I take it this has something to do with Dawg's unique sense of personal engagement. 

But as your friend, and an admirer, I must say that was NOT A GOOD LOOK, dude. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on August 27, 2020, 03:35:01 PM
lmfao...yo Chip, I guess they didn't know what to do until Bo told 'em


*** I also guess we'll have to wait and see if that homeless 'n indigent cash is part of the final package they walk out with
Title: Exhale
Post by: chipstern on August 27, 2020, 03:43:18 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on August 27, 2020, 03:35:01 PM
lmfao...yo Chip, I guess they didn't know what to do until Bo told 'em


*** I guess we'll have to wait and see if that homeless 'n indigent cash is part of the final package they walk out with

Time to take your foot off of the gas pedal, dude. 

BoD is a good man. 

So are you, but there are times when you relish the posture of a provocateur as if you were participating in the Nathan's Hot Dog Challenge. 

Exhale. 
Title: You right of course. I'm good now.
Post by: lesterluv on August 27, 2020, 03:47:12 PM


(http://maddogskutztown.com/dist/img/logo/logo-cutout.png)
Title: Playoffs
Post by: chipstern on August 27, 2020, 03:56:22 PM
The Players Felt IMPOTENT, to engender change and a positive dialog. 

And that playing for the past two nights was a mixed message to send.

Like Kenny The Jet, said, I feel as though my head is going to explode.  WE HAD TO MAKE SOME SORT OF HUMANE GESTURE. 

Fair enough. 

Their most powerful platform is their talent and their presentation, thereof. 

If they can leverage THAT, as in, voting drives. 

Mere's An Idea As To How To Leverage All Of Their Financial Power. 

Purchase Top Of The Line Mail Sorting Machines To Replace All Of Those Trashed By Trump & DeJoy To The World, And Thus Enable Vote In Ballots....Create A System Of Transportation To Get People To The Polls...Get People To Be Placeholders For Those Who Cannot Stand For Hours On End In Deliberately Stalled Lines At Polling Location
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 27, 2020, 04:27:53 PM
My point was that I got mocked and branded some sort of racist for advocating the same policy and basic viewpoint the majority of NBA players just adopted.

Note that only one person here is employing ugly old-fashioned racial slurs.
Les is an asshole, it's his MO here for whatever reason. 
Title: Poor lil Bo got Mocked!
Post by: lesterluv on August 27, 2020, 04:31:09 PM
lol, Bo, your thoughts and viewpoints are so far from those of the NBA players it's laughable, and btw, I clearly have no monopoly on assholedom as your head is like really, really, really far up your own!


**** I'm especially sure the players just adopted the basic viewpoint that they are not the league
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 28, 2020, 02:49:04 AM
Jordan and Doc Rivers made the same case I did that NBA players have the biggest platform while they are playing.  Chris Paul (and no doubt the owners) made sure the players understood the financial costs, including a potential large hit next season (even a threat to the CBA).  CJ McCollum and Jaylen Brown were concerned that players would end the season, disperse and most would just return home, wouldn't work for change and their voices disappear.  The NBA players ultimately agreed it was best to take concerted action backed by NBA resources.   Everyone agreed Les is an asshole.
All of which I argued in advocating for the season to continue.
Nearly all of that can be found in this good longish article. (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29750724/inside-hectic-hours-historic-nba-boycott)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 28, 2020, 03:08:11 AM
It's good to see a young guy like Jaylen Brown at 22 become a leading voice.  Usually in the NBPA the vets have the clout and control the agenda.  The guys on rook contracts are the future of the NBA and need to be involved, and need a voice.  Kudos to Brown for stepping up.

Otherwise this is a very good and interesting example of how it helps to have a billionaire and major corporation backing up your position.  When the Bucks were in the lockerroom deciding not to play:

Quote
Inside the locker room, Bucks players were on a Zoom call with Wisconsin lieutenant governor Mandela Barnes and attorney general Josh Kaul, which had been facilitated by team owner Marc Lasry and senior vice president Alex Lasry.

Individually or even as a group the Bucks players would be extremely unlikely to get a conference call with the Lt. Gov and AG, let alone at a moment's notice (perhaps Giannis could, but he's not an American citizen).  The Bucks players were able to discuss with two of the state's top leaders, for over an hour, ways in which they could enact change in WI.  With part of the focus on the police reform bill the Guv is pushing and the GOP legislature is blocking, which likely most of the players were not aware of.  And now there is a channel open between the Bucks players, Bucks ownership and the top state leaders of WI.

The clout and influence and connections of NBA owners can be beneficial to the players in effecting change.  If say the Knix players wanted to have a discussion with Jared Kushner, I'm pretty sure Dolan could arrange that.  It could even be worthwhile.  Weird but perhaps worthwhile.  Reportedly, Jared is going to reach out to LeBron James, and I'd love to hear that discussion.  Perhaps LeBJ should insist it be a public discussion anybody can patch into and listen to (or maybe after 30 mins of private chat).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: NeedsAdjustments on August 28, 2020, 08:30:14 AM
I wonder if lester has rethought his previous position that Obama was no better or worse than his predecessors.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: NeedsAdjustments on August 28, 2020, 08:53:32 AM
Any health updates on The Biz?

Hoping for the best.  Always my favorite poster here.  Even if he was totally wrong on the KP trade (like most of the other posters here :)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 28, 2020, 11:18:52 AM
Just 56.  Hope he's doing alright.  Should have a couple more decades to go.
Chip might be in contact or able to get an update. 

I didn't understand how meekly Knick fans accepted losing KZ.  I thought it would be pitchforks and torches on 7th Ave and a crisis for Dolan.  Alas ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: NeedsAdjustments on August 28, 2020, 11:22:48 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 28, 2020, 11:18:52 AM
I didn't understand how meekly Knick fans accepted losing KZ. 

Or how ok they were with getting so little for him.

I guess Steve Mills was shown the door, but only after we whiffed on Kevin Durant which looking back now was just a pipe-dream that any executive worth his salt should have known was so.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 28, 2020, 11:28:25 AM
Just glancing at Knick stats, best 3-Pt shooter by far was MaMo who we jettisoned.  Next was Dotson who shot a league average 36%, pretty good for a young guy without much PG help.   

After that Portis and Trier were average at 35.8%.  Ellington 35%.
Trier gone, the other tow likely as well.

Which, after Dotson, would leave Knox (32.7%) as our 2nd best 3PT shooter.
Bullock could improve on his 33.3% as it was a rough year for him for a variety of reasons.  Then it's all our guards coming in at 32% (Franc, RJB) or lower (Jr. Smith, Elf) and all our Bigs in the 20+% range (Randle, Taj, Hark, Mitch).

Knix desperately need shooting.  Have to take a long look at drafting Vassell.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 28, 2020, 11:37:27 AM
2019-01-31   

Knicks Received:   
• Dennis Smith Jr.
• DeAndre Jordan
• Wesley Matthews
• first round pick (two years after Mavericks send first round pick to Hawks) (?-?)
• first round pick (protected top 10 in 2023-25, else 2025 second round pick) (?-?)   

Mavs Received
• Kristaps Porzingis
• Tim Hardaway Jr.
• Courtney Lee
• Trey Burke

Likely the 2 picks are around 21 +/- 4 slots.
Tim the 2nd best player in the deal.
Trey Burke probably more useful for DAL then Smith Jr.

2019-07-12   Mavericks   
• Kristaps Porzingis (RFA) re-signed to a 5-year, $158.25M contract, with a 1-year player option for 2023
The only issue is really KZ's health.
And for a young significant talent, you have to pay and pray.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on August 28, 2020, 11:53:04 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 28, 2020, 03:08:11 AM


The clout and influence and connections of NBA owners can be beneficial to the players in effecting change.  If say the Knix players wanted to have a discussion with Jared Kushner, I'm pretty sure Dolan could arrange that.  It could even be worthwhile.  Weird but perhaps worthwhile.  Reportedly, Jared is going to reach out to LeBron James, and I'd love to hear that discussion.  Perhaps LeBJ should insist it be a public discussion anybody can patch into and listen to (or maybe after 30 mins of private chat).


Jared Kushner could give two shits about the NBA, the players, or racial equality, he cares about re-electing Trump a racist corrupt and inept evil fascist.

didn't you get the message of the RNC to appeal to black men and peel them off from Biden?

Didn't you see enough black props for Trump over the past few nights?

I'd be surprised if LeBron would get used politicaly in this manner, by Jared the great peace-maker of the Middle-East.

But given the leadership of the Knicks I would not be shocked to see Dolan put his players in an untenable postion to get used by the Trump campaign.

But even the greenest of Knick rookies should be able to see through the cynacism of this White House.

This is as pure a political ploy as possible.

JFC

The NBA players have the power and leverage now to get their message out on their own.

they should fucking use it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 28, 2020, 12:12:11 PM
Okay probably a bad example, but just wanted to underscore the power of some of these billionaire owners.  They can be valuable resources, have high level connections.  Sure the current timing is horrendous, but if Trump went on to a 2nd term, talking to Jared might be viable.  I doubt Dolan has any connections to Gov Coumo.

From Zach Lowe:
Quote
"More broadly, I wonder if something of a public reckoning is coming for team governors whose politics (and political donations) stand in stark and obvious opposition to those of something like 90% (and maybe more) of players. It has been the elephant in the NBA's room for a long time. It's not a secret. But if players (and coaches, and staff) start naming them, and forcing them into substantive discussions, the resulting dialogue could be important."
There is something unappealing and incongruous about NBA players being essentially forced to work for and make money for a James Dolan, a Trump donor and supporter working against their interests.

The NBPA needs to make a push for more black owners and more owners with viewpoints that align with the talent on the teams.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on August 28, 2020, 12:52:09 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 28, 2020, 12:12:11 PM
Okay probably a bad example, but just wanted to underscore the power of some of these billionaire owners.  They can be valuable resources, have high level connections.  Sure the current timing is horrendous, but if Trump went on to a 2nd term, talking to Jared might be viable.  I doubt Dolan has any connections to Gov Coumo.

From Zach Lowe:
Quote
"More broadly, I wonder if something of a public reckoning is coming for team governors whose politics (and political donations) stand in stark and obvious opposition to those of something like 90% (and maybe more) of players. It has been the elephant in the NBA's room for a long time. It's not a secret. But if players (and coaches, and staff) start naming them, and forcing them into substantive discussions, the resulting dialogue could be important."
There is something unappealing and incongruous about NBA players being essentially forced to work for and make money for a James Dolan, a Trump donor and supporter working against their interests.

The NBPA needs to make a push for more black owners and more owners with viewpoints that align with the talent on the teams.


Dude that's the nature of capitalism. Workers work for the owners.

I'd like to see diversity of ownership as well, but I'm not sure I'd be happy with a litmus test of color or politics as the deciding factor.

Should a seller be forced to give a discount based on political POV or skin-color?

Perhaps a discussion for another day.

PS-If Trump wins a 2nd term Jared wil have bigger fish to fry than the boys playing ball.

He'll be building prisons for the exalted leaders's political enemies.

and planning a 3rd term.




Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 28, 2020, 01:17:17 PM
I never had a law firm trade me to another law firm which was right-wing and against my beliefs, and yet I was forced to work there.

Recently, my very good bank USAA closed down their brokerage services and shifted their customers to Charles Schwab.  I plan to look for another financier to handle my stock portfolio and make money off any trades I make, since Schwab is a large Trump supporter and donor.  I don't want to financially support such a company/person.

NBA players have fairly limited say in who they work for.  Only FA's have a choice.  Rooks get locked in for 4 years with no say.  Players can get traded and essentially forced to work for a Dolan.  Under those circumstances, removing the Dolans is reasonable and just.

Really I like the model of the players and fans owning the teams.  Currently the Green Bay Packers are the only community owned team in major pro sports.  A shareholder system, though not publicly traded.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on August 28, 2020, 03:24:58 PM
I'm pretty sure a law-firm could not trade you anywhere, you do have protected rights, that I'm pretty sure you can't bragain away. But I'm not a lawyer so  you should check with someone who could provide you decent legal guidance to keep you out of involuntary servitude.

Players sign contracts that give them and the team and its management certain rights. Being traded is part of the risk-reward model of a professional athlete.

In any case, your analogy is pretty weak and comes nowhere close to addressing the issue you brought up of the inherent nature of capitalism, (making the boss wealthy) which you seem to have a poor grasp of.

When you find a new brokerage more aligned with your political leanings, (good luck with that) you should probably buy some MSG and as a shareholder. give Dolan your insights into running the business, turning the Knicks around, and maybe he'll teach you about capitalism and being a rock star.

best of luck


fwiw, I'll always be pissed I didn't buy shares in the Celts when they did an IPO in '86. IIRC, it was more a dividend play and I was more into growth.
I should have bought it for the stock certificate as wall art.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 28, 2020, 04:15:03 PM
No, my point was having to work for an owner you don't want to work for.

Since the NBA has a limited number of franchises and only a few that come up for sale every so often, usually there are multiple bidders.  The NBA can and I'd argue should favor ownership groups that have the approval of the players, that align with the majority viewpoint of the workforce.  Especially since players can be forced to work for any of the 30 owners.  They should also prefer ownership bids which include ex-players and/or significant Black minority ownership stakes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 28, 2020, 04:39:40 PM
Or how ok they were with getting so little for him.



Well, come on - it was young snot Porzingis vs PHIL FUCKING JACKSON

Pretty easy call from the outset to not be in the KP camp.
Title: Go Figure
Post by: chipstern on August 28, 2020, 10:14:55 PM
 Kristaps Porzingis will miss the rest of the Dallas Mavericks’ series against the Los Angeles Clippers because of a torn ligament in his right knee.
Title: Chico is back in Town!
Post by: carlos123 on August 28, 2020, 10:19:44 PM
Chico, Bienvenido!!!

This may be the only welcome you get here so, just for you ...

(https://patch.com/img/cdn20/getty/22866740/20200713/023436/styles/patch_image/public/gettyimages-1226604319___13143414445.jpg)
Title: Re: Go Figure
Post by: carlos123 on August 28, 2020, 10:23:39 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 28, 2020, 10:14:55 PM
Kristaps Porzingis will miss the rest of the Dallas Mavericks’ series against the Los Angeles Clippers because of a torn ligament in his right knee.

KP trade was horrible, we got nothing for it and that's a crime. We could have fleeced the Mavs. or other team or at least get something of value.

BUT, we knew KP was a very high risk player, and the other teams knew it too.
Title: Re: Go Figure
Post by: bodiddley on August 29, 2020, 03:09:19 AM
Quote from: chipstern on August 28, 2020, 10:14:55 PM
Kristaps Porzingis will miss the rest of the Dallas Mavericks’ series against the Los Angeles Clippers because of a torn ligament in his right knee.

Well, no.  KZ has a lateral meniscus tear, much less worrisome than a ligament tear.  Meniscus is a special type of cartilage that acts a shock absorber in the knee between the leg bones; while a ligament is fibrous connective tissue that links bones together and needed for stability.
Here's a good basic description of the difference (https://www.differencebetween.com/difference-between-meniscus-and-ligament/)
(I didn't know there was actually a website called differencebetween.com -- it's actually quite good and technical science oriented)

I'd say it's the difference between minor and major structural knee damage.
A meniscus tear can heal without surgery depending on the location and severity.
Even with surgery, the healing period is just 1-3 months. 

I was wondering why KZ wasn't playing.  It's the playoffs and ordinarily you might play through some soreness, at least give it a try, sit out one game, etc.  But this is structural damage.

I was thinking the extra boycott days off were beneficial for DAL, allowing KZ to rest/heal up.  Certainly seems to be the case with Westbrook for HOU.

Been a weird season.  CV-19 stoppage allowed POR to get Nurk back (and briefly Zach Collins). The Bubble led to the loss of Ariza (POR) and A Very Bradley (LAL) who opted out of playing.  Protest boycott allowed HOU to get Westbrook back in the 1st round.  Probably others I'm forgetting as well (Nets missed Dinwiddie and Wil, but weren't going anywhere anyway).
Title: Bo Knows What's Best For Blacks For Sure!
Post by: lesterluv on August 29, 2020, 08:46:10 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 28, 2020, 02:49:04 AM
Everyone agreed Les is an asshole.

lol, everyone agreed Bo is a racist, citing his deep aversion to "Too Black" players, his frequent use of Dog Whistles and Code Words in regard to young black men like Zach Randolph, and of course his "step fetch and hop" outburst recently extended to 1450 words!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on August 29, 2020, 09:00:43 AM
Quote from: NeedsAdjustments on August 28, 2020, 08:30:14 AM
I wonder if lester has rethought his previous position that Obama was no better or worse than his predecessors.

always rethinking lol, always rethinking!

He's sure looking better and better in comparison with his successor, trouble is, that makes his culpability in making his successor possible even worse too...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 29, 2020, 09:58:00 AM
Knicks gave Thibs 30 mil for 5

Lue turned down Lakers prior to their hiring Vogel.  Ty wanted more than the three year deal LAL offered.  Landed as assistant with LAC and may have his choice of jobs for '20-'21 - but none will be as juicy as LA

From Kamla and AD show yesterday, NBA Radio. 

AD said if Thibs gets 6  - and 5 years, he has set the bar - for coaches without a ring - and the with his ring Lue can demand 25% more.

A - Really?
B - Do you think Lue turning down LA had anything to do with having to be controlled somewhat by LeBron?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 29, 2020, 10:25:19 AM
Some good ideas here:
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29754941/what-experts-say-nba-players-do-power
One suggestion is to get team sponsors involved in some of the social justice projects.  Large corps with lots of money and resources who like to be seen doing good in the community.

Donna Brazile talks about including the local community when new stadiums are built.  Owners often get very generous tax breaks (such as 20 years of no prop taxes) and lots of expensive improvements on the land.  I'd advocate building some affordable housing in any stadium deal.  A huge several $B project like Atlantic Yards in BKY, could have a couple of 10 story low-income housing buildings tossed into the mix ... something like that.  She also talks about providing training for young people to work in marketing or opening related businesses, etc.

Liz Warren has a plan that the state/local gov't should get an equity stake in exchange for all the tax breaks and improvements they provide.  I forget he numbers but in her BKY example getting a  gov't stake (25%? or whatever) in exchange for hundreds of millions of assistance, would have returned the full gov't investment in 10 years as the franchise value doubled and then doubled again.

If the gov't is getting its investment back in part or full, a good deal of that money could then be shifted from helping a billionaire sports enterprise to investing in the local community.

I liked that Chris Paul and LeBron reached out and got advice from Obama.  Michelle's brother and ex-Knick employee Craig Robinson would seem to be an excellent point man for the NBA's new social justice committee.
Title: Chadwick Boseman, RIP
Post by: chipstern on August 29, 2020, 12:57:59 PM
(https://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Chadwick+Boseman+42+Premiere+After+Party+_tOEck1ru7vl.jpg)

I

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/pYMEoaEPJwQ/maxresdefault.jpg)

Am

(https://www.thewrap.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/boseman-marshall.jpg)

Simply

(https://s3.india.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/chadwick-boseman-black-panther-main.jpg)

CRUSHED

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dm7jGkoU4AA0czi.jpg)

This gentle young man was comforting children with cancer at Saint Jude's Children's Hospital back in 2018, while HE HIMSELF was battling the colon cancer that took his life at 42.  In Private.  No PITY PARTIES.  Doing much of his finest film work all the while. 

(https://66.media.tumblr.com/55d50912f657c1a1243405feb013359f/tumblr_peyvwrICo11vlziu3_1280.png)

Ain't

(https://pagesix.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2020/08/chadwick-boseman-stjude.jpg?quality=80&strip=all)

That

(https://www.wmcactionnews5.com/resizer/AQNgAJIFdf7syTlHUEnq7eBXBWY=/1200x0/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-raycom.s3.amazonaws.com/public/AFZDAR6VHRAF3A2IXTW26X5BOE.JPG)

A

(https://myimpressionnowcom.files.wordpress.com/2020/08/boseman.jpeg?w=603)

Man?

(https://thumbor.forbes.com/thumbor/711x533/https://blogs-images.forbes.com/laurabegleybloom/files/2018/06/Bali-Sunset-JetsetChristina-Single-Fin-Uluwatu-Bali-1200x900.jpg?width=960)

Chadwick Boseman: Rest In Peace & Power, Dear Brother
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 29, 2020, 08:07:05 PM
Brother Stan calls out Shae-Gilgeous for being roadkill for James Harden - and any Rockets player.

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 29, 2020, 10:19:27 PM
"When you start to look at who owns these teams...and if they're going to invest their money in something that is completely counter to what 'Black Lives Matters' is ... when you know that the NBA is predominantly Black, and if your views don't necessarily align with those views, then that means you're purely in this for the money," Jefferson said.




Yeah, family business can be that way



https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2906738-why-nba-owners-300m-pledge-isnt-enough-for-players-fight-against-racism?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 30, 2020, 02:12:37 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 29, 2020, 08:07:05 PM
Brother Stan calls out Shae-Gilgeous for being roadkill for James Harden - and any Rockets player.
heh

Too bad we didn't draft him, Shai Gorgeous can play.

A learning experience for sure, but he played well in 3 of the 5 playoff games:

31 / 6 / 2  &  10/11 FT's
23 / 7 / 6  &   4 steals in 48 minutes
18  / 12 / 6  in 44 mins
8-19 on 3's in those 3 games.

Two duds to open and close the series.
Just 22 years old and a gamer.  Knix missed out.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 30, 2020, 03:00:29 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 29, 2020, 10:19:27 PM
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2906738-why-nba-owners-300m-pledge-isnt-enough-for-players-fight-against-racism

Good article, thanks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 30, 2020, 08:21:53 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 30, 2020, 02:12:37 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 29, 2020, 08:07:05 PM
Brother Stan calls out Shae-Gilgeous for being roadkill for James Harden - and any Rockets player.
heh

Too bad we didn't draft him, Shai Gorgeous can play.

A learning experience for sure, but he played well in 3 of the 5 playoff games:

31 / 6 / 2  &  10/11 FT's
23 / 7 / 6  &   4 steals in 48 minutes
18  / 12 / 6  in 44 mins
8-19 on 3's in those 3 games.

Two duds to open and close the series.
Just 22 years old and a gamer.  Knix missed out.

Series ain't done is it?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 30, 2020, 10:58:08 AM
You're right.  I didn't see the game and kinda lost track of things with the hiatus.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on August 30, 2020, 03:53:46 PM
Celts looked a little rusty-but given the circumstances, that was a great opener, and a 2-way ass-kicking
Title: Morris Sr.
Post by: Kam on August 30, 2020, 04:26:44 PM
Marcus Morris ejected for flagrant foul on Doncic.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 30, 2020, 05:12:00 PM
MaMO always has been a hothead.

Tim Jr and Burke jsut 3-17 1st half.
Need Tim to get on track 2nd half.
Title: Re: Morris Sr.
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 30, 2020, 05:46:01 PM
Quote from: Kam on August 30, 2020, 04:26:44 PM
Marcus Morris ejected for flagrant foul on Doncic.


a few days late
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 30, 2020, 05:46:57 PM
Need Tim to get on track 2nd half.


heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 30, 2020, 06:17:48 PM
Team worst -31 for Hardaway.
Came in late to guard Kawhi ...
2-4 on 3's 2nd half.

Dorian Funky-Smith played well
Luka nearly had a 40 point triple double.
Killed it 3Q, and LAc started doubling Luka mid-4Q to get the ball out of his hands.
Too bad KZ couldn't go last two games.  He should be fine though.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 30, 2020, 06:19:59 PM
Luka nearly had a 40 point triple double.



yayyyyyy...
Title: The mysteries of Chico
Post by: carlos123 on August 31, 2020, 12:29:39 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 30, 2020, 06:19:59 PM
Luka nearly had a 40 point triple double.



yayyyyyy...

Chico, what do you mean exactly, if anything?

No one is safe in Trump’s America
Title: R-E-S-P-E-C-T
Post by: chipstern on August 31, 2020, 10:22:30 AM
(https://www.washingtonpost.com/resizer/Uvylx5cwpI-7Zc5XoPHNmX1PbyY=/arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost/public/DQFFUTDLNY3OJCRSSLQ7IVMCGA.jpg)

Ain't That A Man
Title: El Chico, Mannequin Of Mendacious Mockery
Post by: chipstern on August 31, 2020, 10:30:25 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on August 31, 2020, 12:29:39 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 30, 2020, 06:19:59 PM
Luka nearly had a 40 point triple double.



yayyyyyy...

Chico, what do you mean exactly, if anything?

No one is safe in Trump’s America

Easier To Sneer Than Cheer

More Satisfying To Deride With Contempt Than To Wax Verklempt. 

More Invested In The Ethos Of A Vicious Tweet Than In Acknowledging Something Humane And Sweet. 

Should We Evince Surprise At The Hate In This One's Eyes? 

That We Acknowledge Him At All Will Transport Him Through The Fall. 

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/38N5OcZx3ko/hqdefault.jpg)

"Who you gonna believe...me, or your eyes?" 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on August 31, 2020, 10:32:13 AM
John Thompson-great coach, great man

RIP
Title: Still Pissed After All These Years: The Ghosts Of Knicks' Front Offices Past
Post by: chipstern on August 31, 2020, 10:47:50 AM
Donovan Mitchell

44 points

14-25 FGs

9-13 3Pt

7-7 FTs

6 rebounds

5 assists

3 steals

Jamal Murray

50 Points

17-24 FGs

9-12 3Pt

7-9 FTs

5 rebounds

6 assists

Donovan Mitchell lingers in our memory from a more recent draft, Rick Pitino urging us to draft him, Knicks management viewing #8 to early to reach out. 

Jamal Murray.

A Gift Which Keeps Giving

Nuggets selected him with the last of the #1 picks they obtained from the Knicks in the Carmelo Anthony Trade. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on August 31, 2020, 11:05:51 AM
Chip-your pic of Harpo, giving his classic speech from Night at the Opera, has a nice piece of sports trivia, kudos to anyone who gets it.

Edit-you need to watch the scene, its not in the photo

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 31, 2020, 11:16:05 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on August 31, 2020, 11:05:51 AM
Chip-your pic of Harpo, giving his classic speech from Night at the Opera, has a nice piece of sports trivia, kudos to anyone who gets it.

Chico

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a8/93/77/a893770ed1871777cc0582bae998bb15.jpg)

From Left-Right:

Groucho [Julius]

Zeppo [Herbert]

Chico [Leonard]

Harpo [Adolph, ARTHUR after 1911]

In the Middle?

Their Father, Samuel Marx

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DWxDEGAVoAAIynK.jpg:large)

Gummo [Milton], Zeppo, Chico, Groucho, Harpo
Title: Re: Still Pissed After All These Years: The Ghosts Of Knicks' Front Offices Past
Post by: lesterluv on August 31, 2020, 11:19:04 AM
Quote from: chipstern on August 31, 2020, 10:47:50 AM

A Gift Which Keeps Giving

Nuggets selected him with the last of the #1 picks they obtained from the Knicks in the Carmelo Anthony Trade. 

[/size][/color]

I hadn't realized (or had forgotten). Thanks for a cheery start to the week........sigh....


*** R.I.P Coach Thompson, a great, no doubt
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on August 31, 2020, 11:23:40 AM
Quote from: chipstern on August 31, 2020, 11:16:05 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on August 31, 2020, 11:05:51 AM
Chip-your pic of Harpo, giving his classic speech from Night at the Opera, has a nice piece of sports trivia, kudos to anyone who gets it.

Chico

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a8/93/77/a893770ed1871777cc0582bae998bb15.jpg)

From Left-Right:

Groucho [Julius]

Zeppo [Herbert]

Chico [Leonard]

Harpo [Adolph, ARTHUR after 1911]

In the Middle?

Their Father, Samuel Marx

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DWxDEGAVoAAIynK.jpg:large)

Gummo [Milton], Zeppo, Chico, Groucho, Harpo

I need more coffee

dumb mistake

i know their work pretty well from countless viewings since i was a puppy

i love the Marx Bros.

Title: Bank Shot?
Post by: chipstern on August 31, 2020, 12:02:30 PM
We're all out of sorts these days.

A chore to wake up in the morning, and take note of some new affront to humanity, or the loss of some decent, actual, factual....MEN. 

Better to mistake Harpo for Chico than to mistake $45 for a human being. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on August 31, 2020, 12:38:12 PM
Chip- it was just a brain fart on my part,

A 4-year-old child could tell the difference!

or Margaret Dumont!

Hungadunga

Although I will admit, as I assume most familar with their work would, to mistaking Harpo for Groucho in the their classic mirror scene.

Those guys look almost exactly alike.

Agreed on the daily assault on humanity we are subjected to.

And IMO we need some Marxian anarchy and mockery to help us through these trying times.

Not to different from the political climate of the 30s as Americans faced an economic depression and some wondered whether fascist authoritarianism was a viable  option for the US to follow.

We should have learned and remembered.


Hope you're well Chip.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 31, 2020, 02:09:24 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on August 31, 2020, 12:38:12 PM
Chip- it was just a brain fart on my part,

A 4-year-old child could tell the difference!

or Margaret Dumont!

Hungadunga

Although I will admit, as I assume most familar with their work would, to mistaking Harpo for Groucho in the their classic mirror scene.

Those guys look almost exactly alike.

Agreed on the daily assault on humanity we are subjected to.

And IMO we need some Marxian anarchy and mockery to help us through these trying times.

Not to different from the political climate of the 30s as Americans faced an economic depression and some wondered whether fascist authoritarianism was a viable  option for the US to follow.

We should have learned and remembered.


Hope you're well Chip.

Thanks.

I despair of both the far LEFT as well as the far RIGHT. 

That being said by someone whose own world view is slightly to the left of Trotsky. 

In the face of exigent danger from the Fascist Right, so many on the left are still relitigating the primaries.

"Oh, Biden is not in favor of Medicaid for all."

Motherfuckers, he ain't for destroying the ACA and offing people with pre-existing conditions, or appointing NAZIs to the Supreme Court and Federal Bench.

I pray we flip Congress, because there is NOTHING the GOP won't do to enable this Cuit Of Hate & incompetence and steal the federal election. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 31, 2020, 02:20:12 PM
I pray we flip Congress, because there is NOTHING the GOP won't do to enable this Cuit Of Hate & incompetence and steal the federal election.



Or we could just...


win it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on August 31, 2020, 02:51:13 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 31, 2020, 02:09:24 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on August 31, 2020, 12:38:12 PM
Chip- it was just a brain fart on my part,

A 4-year-old child could tell the difference!

or Margaret Dumont!

Hungadunga

Although I will admit, as I assume most familar with their work would, to mistaking Harpo for Groucho in the their classic mirror scene.

Those guys look almost exactly alike.

Agreed on the daily assault on humanity we are subjected to.

And IMO we need some Marxian anarchy and mockery to help us through these trying times.

Not to different from the political climate of the 30s as Americans faced an economic depression and some wondered whether fascist authoritarianism was a viable  option for the US to follow.

We should have learned and remembered.


Hope you're well Chip.

Thanks.

I despair of both the far LEFT as well as the far RIGHT. 

That being said by someone whose own world view is slightly to the left of Trotsky. 

In the face of exigent danger from the Fascist Right, so many on the left are still relitigating the primaries.

"Oh, Biden is not in favor of Medicaid for all."

Motherfuckers, he ain't for destroying the ACA and offing people with pre-existing conditions, or appointing NAZIs to the Supreme Court and Federal Bench.

I pray we flip Congress, because there is NOTHING the GOP won't do to enable this Cuit Of Hate & incompetence and steal the federal election.

Chip-I think we see eye to eye on most of this. I'm a lib but not radical or a far left dem. But I fear that those dumb-motherfuckers would rather insist on only their brand  of progressive rather than win a fucking election and rid us of a fascsist-racist authoritarian dictator wannabe.

Its going to take a lot of decent people from across most of the political spectrum to defeat this evil anti-democratic motherfucker, and we can't be rejecting some of that coalition due to insufficient progressive purity.

I believe Jerry Reed once noted, "We got a long way to go and a short time to get there".

The fucking hill-billy was right.

Time to start that trip.

And to quote a progressive from the past, "a journey of 1000 mile begins with a single step."

We just can't be tripping each other or we'll never get there. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: NeedsAdjustments on August 31, 2020, 03:39:11 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on August 29, 2020, 09:00:43 AM
Quote from: NeedsAdjustments on August 28, 2020, 08:30:14 AM
I wonder if lester has rethought his previous position that Obama was no better or worse than his predecessors.

always rethinking lol, always rethinking!

He's sure looking better and better in comparison with his successor, trouble is, that makes his culpability in making his successor possible even worse too...

Yeah, that Obama.  He should have known that presidenting while Black was going to lead to a Trump.
Title: Bottoms Up, Dolt
Post by: chipstern on August 31, 2020, 03:42:58 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 31, 2020, 02:20:12 PM
I pray we flip Congress, because there is NOTHING the GOP won't do to enable this Cuit Of Hate & incompetence and steal the federal election.



Or we could just...


win it.

Or

Maybe

(https://images.penguinrandomhouse.com/cover/9780735214460)

You

Could

Grow

A

(https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/49904660/man-coulter-imissmypenis.jpg)

Dick

Man Coulter

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EgkOQNKWsAEA-aj.jpg)

Bottoms Up

(https://i.redd.it/p3lydyuv25e41.jpg)
Title: My apologies to the Marx Bros.
Post by: carlos123 on August 31, 2020, 10:12:20 PM
I translated Kid for Chico, given Kiid's love for all things Latinx and the Spanish language.

Shouda thunk about it, and pick another translation.

Maybe Nene? It can imply some silliness on the part of the subject, so it may be adequate.

Or Chamaco? Mostly used in Mexico, and we all know that's D. Pandemic Trump's and therefore kiid's favorite country (after Russia, obviously).

Chico Cartero? Nene Cartero? Chamaco Cartero?... hmmmmm

PS. Chip, I think Ann Coulter is no longer a Trumptin supporter, no idea why not. Maybe Nene Cartero knows.
Title: need adjustments cause yer a dumb m'fer
Post by: lesterluv on August 31, 2020, 10:43:18 PM
Quote from: NeedsAdjustments on August 31, 2020, 03:39:11 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on August 29, 2020, 09:00:43 AM
Quote from: NeedsAdjustments on August 28, 2020, 08:30:14 AM
I wonder if lester has rethought his previous position that Obama was no better or worse than his predecessors.

always rethinking lol, always rethinking!

He's sure looking better and better in comparison with his successor, trouble is, that makes his culpability in making his successor possible even worse too...

Yeah, that Obama.  He should have known that presidenting while Black was going to lead to a Trump.

lol...that's a rather stupid thing to say...and not what I'm saying at all.
Title: those dumb motherfuckers on the left
Post by: lesterluv on August 31, 2020, 10:49:42 PM
and Bank & Chip, isn't it a bit preemptive to already blame the left wing of the democratic party for the second Trump term when it was fully its right wing that brought us the first..don'tcha think?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on August 31, 2020, 10:55:41 PM
and...Gallinari!!!
Title: Re: those dumb motherfuckers ...
Post by: bankshot1 on August 31, 2020, 11:02:19 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on August 31, 2020, 10:49:42 PM
and Bank & Chip, isn't it a bit preemptive to already blame the left wing of the democratic party for the second Trump term when it was fully its right wing that brought us the first..don'tcha think?

Les-I'm not blaming the left for anything yet.

My concerns is that party progressives think they have a far bigger national appeal than they do and piss away the chance to save and fix our democracy, by demanding a purity test of sorts and demanding social positions that may not sit well with most Americans, now. 

I think if you are Dem, Indy or a Repub with a sliver of a brain and a sliver of decency left we all have to work together to defeat the forces of evil in 2020. And if you're a liberal that the Dems maintain political power for some time, maybe a generation, like FDR. Over that time a lot of things can be accomplshed. But first, IMO we have to return to a normal functioning democracy.

YMMV
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 01, 2020, 12:18:31 AM
Not much left in CP3s tank


heh
Title: Les!!!
Post by: carlos123 on September 01, 2020, 12:35:59 AM
Les, you know you my doggie, but you ain’t making a whole lotta sense.

Do you want to risk living under a fully fledged fascist regime? I know I don’t, and that’s where a second D. Pandemic T. term would take us. U don’t think so? Well, nobody took Hitler seriously when he was first appointed chancellor. Everybody thought he was just a clown who could be easily controlled.

Like Nene heh Cartero would say, SHUP UP AND VOTE!!!
And, like Nene would not say, VOTE FOR BIDEN/HARRIS!!! like Bernie and Warren.
Title: heh
Post by: carlos123 on September 01, 2020, 01:24:21 AM
Like I say, Nene heh Cartero.

heh is just not your best argument, but your ONLY argument.

You need to go back to elementary school, preferably in Florida, you and Ron, both.
Title: I like
Post by: Kam on September 01, 2020, 02:09:50 AM
Chamaco
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: NeedsAdjustments on September 01, 2020, 08:04:35 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on August 31, 2020, 10:43:18 PM
lol...that's a rather stupid thing to say...

Yeah, it was a stupid thing to say.  Which is why I pointed it out as such.

Knowing you I suspect that you deleted some foaming at the mouth ravings to attempt to justify a statement so stupid that not even kiidcarter8 would be less worthy of reading.

Back when you were raving about how terrible the ACA is because you had to fill out some paper work (meanwhile almost 20 million more Americans insured...) and saying Obama is no better than Bush, some here (OK, me) were pointing out how consequential the larger fight for economic and social justice is/will be. 

And now, maybe, you can see it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on September 01, 2020, 09:50:57 AM
lol...the dawg has never deleted a single one of his glorious posts - maybe I'll address your other frantic foaming ravings after I do a few more important things like eat breakfast, take out the trash & scratch my ass!
Title: Re: I like
Post by: carlos123 on September 01, 2020, 10:16:15 PM
Quote from: Kam on September 01, 2020, 02:09:50 AM
Chamaco

I agree. Chamaco Cartero has a nice ring to it, and it sounds really Mexican, kinda like La Cucaracha.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Trv29kPa_2w (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Trv29kPa_2w)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 02, 2020, 02:01:08 AM
With two more losses Knix would have had the 2nd worst record at 19-47.

Not sure how they dealt with the different number of games teams played.
Cavs were 19-46; Minn 19-45.

But it looks like 2 more losses and NYK would have gotten the 5th pick a la CLE.
Good thing we larded up on vets to get those 2 extra W's ...

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 02, 2020, 03:20:43 AM
https://www.nbadraft.net/nba-mock-drafts/ has the Knix at #8 having a choice of Killian Hayes or Vassell, and going with Hayes.  With Ty Halibut going one slot before us.

CBSports has an odd mock draft with Deni Avidja available at #8, but the Knix choosing to trade up to #2 to get Ball (https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2020-nba-mock-draft-knicks-trade-up-to-land-lamelo-ball-timberwolves-select-anthony-edwards-with-top-pick/). 

But they have no idea what the Knix could offer.  And it only makes sense for GSW anyway if they can nab a guy like Avidja at #8.  If only say Killian or Halliburton is available at 8, it wouldn't make much sense for GSW.  Seems pretty far-fetched.
Title: Sometimes Les Is More, Sometimes....LESS
Post by: chipstern on September 02, 2020, 09:22:22 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on September 01, 2020, 09:50:57 AM
lol...the dawg has never deleted a single one of his glorious posts - maybe I'll address your other frantic foaming ravings after I do a few more important things like eat breakfast, take out the trash & scratch my ass!

Always liked you and dug your BK book.

Imagine my chagrin when you transmogrified into the left wing doppelganger to Kiid's right wing Man Coulter. 

Man Coulter

Meet

Corn Hull Vest
Title: Draft Animals
Post by: chipstern on September 02, 2020, 09:46:35 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 02, 2020, 03:20:43 AM
https://www.nbadraft.net/nba-mock-drafts/ has the Knix at #8 having a choice of Killian Hayes or Vassell, and going with Hayes.  With Ty Halibut going one slot before us.

CBSports has an odd mock draft with Deni Avidja available at #8, but the Knix choosing to trade up to #2 to get Ball (https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2020-nba-mock-draft-knicks-trade-up-to-land-lamelo-ball-timberwolves-select-anthony-edwards-with-top-pick/). 

But they have no idea what the Knix could offer.  And it only makes sense for GSW anyway if they can nab a guy like Avidja at #8.  If only say Killian or Halliburton is available at 8, it wouldn't make much sense for GSW.  Seems pretty far-fetched.

The Mocks Are 99% Click Bait BS

Nothing To Report So Report On One's Conjecture & BS. 

No one KNOWS. 

So, the KNICKS are going to trade up to get Ball at #2? 

And who might GS want from us?  Besides both of our first rounders? 

Kevin Knox?

They have Wiggins. 

Julius Randle? 

They have Green.

Mitchell Robinson. 

Walk slowly away and hang up the phone. 

PS: The one bit of phantasmagorical conjecture I read yesterday which had some legs, was Danny Ainge trading his three #1 picks to Detroit for the #7 pick. 

PPS: TRADES.  Given the lack of clear cut BOMBS AWAY choices like Zion or Morant, which is not to dismiss the likes of Edwards, Ball or Wiseman, let alone Odi and Devi, Killian and Halliburton, one can reasonably project some jostling for position from #1-#14. 

PPPS:  Just having my coffee.  Did Man Coulter post anything yet about the tragedy of the Celtics with Jayson Tatum and Kemba Walker instead of Stark Hell Putz? 

PPPS: Carlos, Man Couler's Cunt Stubble not supporting Trump.  SHE IS SUPPORTING KYLE RITTENHOUSE.  You make the call. 

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ERt86d1X0AAdS2z.jpg)

PPPPS: Meanwhile, to those amongst us who claim to be progressives, yet continue to re-litigate the 2016 & 2020 primaries, let alone the 2008 % 2012 elections, bone appetite nose bleeds.   

(https://www.motherjones.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/russia_dinner2000.jpg?w=1200&h=630&crop=1)
Title: So I see the theme of the week is to ....
Post by: lesterluv on September 02, 2020, 12:02:51 PM
.... jump all over the dawg and the “far left” to pre-emptively blame a Biden fail on the small percentage who chose to vote green or withhold their votes for a guy whose main career accomplishment is a bankruptcy bill that fucked women, children, minorities, and anyone without a seven figure bank account to better serve his Delaware-based financial co. masters.

Try blaming white people instead.

Or yet another Dem campaign that thinks tacking right is the way to go. (check how that’s worked out, lol, talk about guaranteed fails)

If he loses it ain’t cause of us, it’s cause of a nationwide campaign of voter suppression and disenfranchisment that Pelosi and Joe woke up to last week, that Sanders and Abrams been working on forever, that brought us Bush II (yeah, check it, it wasn’t Ralph Nader, it wasn’t Palm Beach Jews, it wasn’t hanging chad or a “butterfly ballot” it was 100,000+ dem voters swept clean off the voting rolls, a successful gambit now being deployed nationwide at an election office and post office near you, the only way the Repubs can eke out another win or two before being swamped by a demographic tide, going on full tilt unchecked during 8 Obama years cause his folks were raking in the money and didn't give a fuck).

But have at, as ya like. Dawg and his ilk can take it.

I’ll be swallowing the biscuit and voting for Sleazy Joe in a state that doesn’t matter anyway.  As will most of the people I know who feel like me, in states that count and states that don’t. But don’t come crying to us if we end up with Trump V. 2 ….

Old man better get his ass out of the fucking basement and out to Wisconsin and Pennsylvania and Michigan and Arizona, that's all I'm gonna say.


*** Jill Stein was such a "tool", I'm wit ya there..
Title: and in addition to those wiped off the rolls, which did decide the election, btw
Post by: lesterluv on September 02, 2020, 12:35:54 PM
..... all kinds of folks didn't vote for Hillary in 2016, not just the mean green types.

Folks still fucked after 2008/2009..who saw everything disappear, saw NOT ONE FUCKING CRIMINAL prosecuted for the greatest financial crimes in a generation through two dem terms, and said FUCK THOSE FOLKS

Folks who looked at Hillary and said 'F'that I don't need another neolib warmonger," and they were right. D man hasn't started a war. He's bringing the boys and girls home from Syria and Afghanistan. Bout f'n time.

What about latinos? Shouldn't they have been scared by Donald's anti-immigrant noise? Probably didn't need to be, Obama was the DEPORTATION KING..despite that wall business and ice noise, the Donald's ice squads haven't touched o-Man's #'s, not even close. It's like Dotson vs Booker in the race for a scoring title. Dem/Repub what's the difference? The difference? Dems were worse.

I could go on, but it's back to work.

The Donald sure as fuck didn't win the election by tacking to the center. He won by telling a little bit of truth between his lies. It resonated.

You want to blame it on us -- make my f'ing day.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 02, 2020, 12:36:52 PM
Porter Jr 10-9-2-2 in 17 Game 7 minutes.

When was the last time an NBA team won a playoff game with 2 15 point quarters?
Title: Corn Hull Speaks
Post by: chipstern on September 02, 2020, 12:37:15 PM
Gratified to know that you are not voting for the Jerome James of progressives, Jill Stein, this time out. 

Then again, this Russian troll ain't running. 

As for the Neo-Lib corporate Dems you so disdain, do you think Hillary would've appointed Kavanaugh to the Supreme Court and flooded the Federal Courts with dipshits, incompetents or bought & Paid for QAnon patsies, put Hispanic children in cages at the border, given White Nationalists permission to crawl out from under their rocks, or gutted the Post Office before an election? 

My world views are somewhat to the left of Trotsky (sarcasm alert), but then, I didn't sit out 2016 or vote for Stein or Johnson, thus seeding the clouds for the 2020 Liberal Rapture, 2024 Liberal Rapture...er, the 2030 Liberal Rapture and gifting us four years of Trump. 

I dare say, the legitimacy of many your grievances notwithstanding, and my parallel stream of thoughts thereof, that you had no problem with West playing the BLACKER THAN THOU RACE CARD, and portraying Obama as a TOM. 

My issues with the Left, as a FELLOW LEFTIE, are centered around the utter lack of proportion, historical naivete if not downright ignorance, and the wafting scent of non-aromatic feces.  Which is not to give the Dems or Hillary a hall pass.  As we say in sports, they were not playing to win, but rather, not to lose, thought they could run out the clock, and smugly never figured Trumpster Fire had a three point shot. 
Title: Trumpster Fire
Post by: chipstern on September 02, 2020, 12:39:29 PM
Folks who looked at Hillary and said 'F'that I don't need another neolib warmonger," and they were right. D man hasn't started a war. He's bringing the boys and girls home from Syria and Afghanistan. Bout f'n time.

BRILLIANT. 

Brought the troops back home. 

AND FOMENTED WAR IN OUR FUCKING STREETS.

WHILE GUTTING NATO.   

PS: And Stein was presenting her peace plan and foreign policy creds to Putin. 

PPS: And look at those Corp Dems reaching out to centerists and Republicans when they could be reaching out exclusively to all of those liberals who came out to vote for Bernie in record numbers during his triumphant primary run up to the National Convention. 

PPPS: As per our liberal brethren, one surely hopes they come out in the numbers that they did in the 2018 off year elections.  If LIBERALS take back the House AND The Senate, then they have leverage to press forward with legislation to put on Biden's desk, and at the very least, to drive a colloquy and win over/pressure him to their side.  Let's see them do that with DT. 
Title: Re: Corn Hull Speaks
Post by: lesterluv on September 02, 2020, 12:43:15 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 02, 2020, 12:37:15 PM
Gratified to know that you are not voting for the Jerome James of progressives, Jill Stein, this time out. 

Last time I bit the bullet and voted for that dem bitch who spent the campaign in the Hamptons.

My sig other is begging me NOT to vote for Joe this time. Sez whenever I vote Dem it's a guaranteed L.

It was Porter's boards that impressed the hell out of me. He's a ball magnet. I like him.
Title: Re: Trumpster Fire
Post by: lesterluv on September 02, 2020, 12:44:49 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 02, 2020, 12:39:29 PM
Folks who looked at Hillary and said 'F'that I don't need another neolib warmonger," and they were right. D man hasn't started a war. He's bringing the boys and girls home from Syria and Afghanistan. Bout f'n time.

BRILLIANT. 

Brought the troops back home. 

AND FOMENTED WAR IN OUR FUCKING STREETS.

WHILE GUTTING NATO.   

PS: And Stein was presenting her peace plan and foreign policy creds to Putin.

I'm not saying I like the guy. I'm saying why some like the guy. Some shit about him is real. Ain't nothing real about Joe. Hope I don't have to say I told you so.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 02, 2020, 12:56:58 PM
NBA Comparison: Domantas Sabonis
Strengths: 6’9.5 left-handed, versatile big man … Good size and length with a 7’0 wingspan … Good strength and build, weighing 263 pounds yet very mobile and well-coordinated … Possesses excellent body control … Versatile skillset … Can score inside and out … Effective offensive game when facing up and in the post with good footwork … Has an effective spin move … Good touch in the paint and uses glass efficiently … Scores in a multitude of ways with floaters and jump hooks … Good combination of power and finesse … Reliable, soft hands … Solid ballhandling ability for his size. Can put it on the floor and drive to the basket … Good jab step … Effective in isolation … Shoots from outside with good form and ball rotation … Averaged 17.4 points per game while shooting 54.3% FG% over the Nike EYBL in 2017 and 17.8 points per game while shooting 55.7% FG% in 2018 … Good court vision and passing ability … Makes accurate cross court passes … Solid athletically … Gets good elevation in the paint and finishes with powerful dunks … Solid shot blocker and versatile tools as a defender … Averaged 1.1 blocks per game over the Nike EYBL in 2017 … Draws fouls at a good rate. Shot 6.4 free throws per game over the Nike EYBL in 2018 … Natural talent with great potential. Can naturally do a little bit of everything, won’t have to completely add new dimensions to his game but can improve upon his weaknesses
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 02, 2020, 01:15:17 PM
I'm mostly looking at the mock drafts to get a feel for who is rising, who is falling.
For the past few weeks, Ty Haliburton has gotten a lot of praise and moved up draft boards, despite kiid promising us he's not a Top 7 guy.  But who knows, maybe his stock will peak too early. But at this point he is likely be gone by 8.

Killian Hayes has seen an increase in boosters.  Though not everyone is sold.

Wiseman's position has stabilized.  There used to be some concern he could be a Whiteside, but now it seems folks feel he's more of an Ayton.  (My comps -- I haven't seen anyone use those, or any comps really).

Vassell moved up and then plateaued around 8-11.

Since NYK are picking 8th, I'm mainly rooting for Bigs such as Wiseman and Toppin to go in the first 7, to bump talent down our way.  It's not really a Big Man's game anymore, and we have the promise of Mitch.

Okongwu really impressed me, but he looks to go in the 5-7 range.
I like Vassell a lot too.  Avidja sounds good, but will likely go Top 7.  He had buzz a month back, but has fallen into neutral or dropping slightly.
I'll be happy if we have a choice of TyHa, Vassal, Killian.
And will be interesting to see if there will be any late risers.

The year we drafted Knox, I loved that we had a choice of 4 Wings -- Bridges x2, Knox and Porter Jr.  But Shai G-A was a late riser and had good buzz the last couple pre-draft weeks.  Thus far, Knox was the worst of the 5 choices.

Similarly, I was pleased we had a choice of Franc or Smith Jr. -- and now we have both and nether looks like a starter.

Moral of the story: you still have to make the right choice given the players on the board.  And don't worry about consensus, reach a little lower to get the player you want if there's a guy you feel is right.

For instance, after Franc and Jr. Smith went 8-9, the next 5 picks were:
10  Zach Collins
11. Malik Monk
12. Luke Kennard
13. Donovan Mitchell
14. Bam Adebayo

I'm not a Monk fan, and Canard is still just a decent prospect who could go either way, but Zach is quite good if he can stay in one piece, while Spider and Bam Bam are all-stars.
(also John Collins went 19 & OG 23)
Title: Re: Trumpster Fire
Post by: chipstern on September 02, 2020, 01:25:52 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on September 02, 2020, 12:44:49 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 02, 2020, 12:39:29 PM
Folks who looked at Hillary and said 'F'that I don't need another neolib warmonger," and they were right. D man hasn't started a war. He's bringing the boys and girls home from Syria and Afghanistan. Bout f'n time.

BRILLIANT. 

Brought the troops back home. 

AND FOMENTED WAR IN OUR FUCKING STREETS.

WHILE GUTTING NATO.   

PS: And Stein was presenting her peace plan and foreign policy creds to Putin.

I'm not saying I like the guy. I'm saying why some like the guy. Some shit about him is real. Ain't nothing real about Joe. Hope I don't have to say I told you so.

Well, then, thanks for clearing THAT up. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 02, 2020, 01:43:29 PM
Les no one is blaming the progressives, but if all those who didn't like Hillary (and the list is long) and who otherwise would have voted "D" in '16 and sat it out, decide that Joe isn't quite pure enough on (pick your issue) for them, then we'll have 4 or 8 or 12 more fucking years of that motherfucking traitor-Trump.

I think it was mostly the Comey October "gee i'm having 2nd thoughts about these e-mails and have to inform the people" which made enough people, mostly probably mods and indies, but already pissed off progs, probably say, "fuck her", and stayed home.

Where was Comey's sense of duty and telling the public, "oh btw, we think trump is blowing Putin for votes, and he's a fucking traitor"

Fuck that sanctitmonius selective self righteous enabler of that mother-fucking fascist.

I think American BIG D DEMOCRACY is on the ballot this year.

And I'm fucking voting BIG FUCKING D STRAIGHT DOWN THE FUCKING BALLOT

of course you tovaritch, can exercise your right to vote however you see fit.


 
Title: GOD SAVE US FROM OUR FRIENDS
Post by: chipstern on September 02, 2020, 02:17:18 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on September 02, 2020, 01:43:29 PM
Les no one is blaming the progressives, but if all those who didn't like Hillary (and the list is long) and who otherwise would have voted "D" in '16 and sat it out, decide that Joe isn't quite pure enough on (pick your issue) for them, then we'll have 4 or 8 or 12 more fucking years of that motherfucking traitor-Trump.

I think it was mostly the Comey October "gee i'm having 2nd thoughts about these e-mails and have to inform the people" which made enough people, mostly probably mods and indies, but already pissed off progs, probably say, "fuck her", and stayed home.

Where was Comey's sense of duty and telling the public, "oh btw, we think trump is blowing Putin for votes, and he's a fucking traitor"

Fuck that sanctitmonius selective self righteous enabler of that mother-fucking fascist.

I think American BIG D DEMOCRACY is on the ballot this year.

And I'm fucking voting BIG FUCKING D STRAIGHT DOWN THE FUCKING BALLOT

of course you tovaritch, can exercise your right to vote however you see fit.

The notion that Biden is an exigent threat and Trump is not, frankly baffles me. 

The fact that Sanders can sit down with Biden, hash things out, come to a consensus on some issues, and agree to duke it out bare knuckles style on the other side of January 2021, and point to Trump being real and Biden NOT, well, I fail to see how that advances a progressive agenda. 

When my monthly SSI payment, which I spent most of my adult life kicking in to, is terminated in the second Trump term, my pre-existing conditions are no longer covered, Medicare for ANYBODY is gutted, three generations of Brown Shirts are enthroned on the Federal Bench--thus ensuring gerrymadered voter suppression for generations--I am sure I will take heart in the Idealism of Pseudo Liberal Purists who go on about Biden's manifest failings, while pointing to AT LEAST how REAL Trump is. 

It is not our adversaries who pose the greatest threat to my grand daughter's America and the survival of this democracy....it is OUR FRIENDS. 
Title: PS
Post by: chipstern on September 02, 2020, 02:18:49 PM
Donovan Mitchell to sign max extension with JAZZ. 

So much for our team's "Wish List." 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on September 02, 2020, 02:19:23 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on September 02, 2020, 01:43:29 PM
of course you tovaritch, can exercise your right to vote however you see fit.

I'm in, I'm in, I'm in I tell you..I'm in so hard.....

(unless, as previously mentioned, ms. dawg doesn't let me lest I sabotage things)

***yeah, no doubt, Comey is right up there w/Steve Mills on the villains list



And returning the focus to the real morons:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/09/02/sturgis-rally-death-coronavirus/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/09/02/sturgis-rally-death-coronavirus/)

The first body bags from this lawn fest should be getting filled shortly before election time:
(https://www.adn.com/resizer/OcRvm0Go2IrxrF3xaQl4OzW-nfM=/992x0/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/adn/4REEFJVD4FCPBOVBULCUBJ7G2A.jpg)


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 02, 2020, 02:29:22 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on September 02, 2020, 02:19:23 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on September 02, 2020, 01:43:29 PM
of course you tovaritch, can exercise your right to vote however you see fit.

I'm in, I'm in, I'm in I tell you..I'm in so hard.....

(unless, as previously mentioned, ms. dawg doesn't let me lest I sabotage things)

***yeah, no doubt, Comey is right up there w/Steve Mills on the villains list



And returning the focus to the real morons:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/09/02/sturgis-rally-death-coronavirus/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/09/02/sturgis-rally-death-coronavirus/)

The first body bags from this lawn fest should be getting filled shortly before election time:
(https://www.adn.com/resizer/OcRvm0Go2IrxrF3xaQl4OzW-nfM=/992x0/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/adn/4REEFJVD4FCPBOVBULCUBJ7G2A.jpg)

Sooner than that. 

Did anyone say Herman Cain's name out loud at the RNC? 
Title: Re: PS
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 02, 2020, 03:49:16 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 02, 2020, 02:18:49 PM
Donovan Mitchell to sign max extension with JAZZ. 

So much for our team's "Wish List."


No hero ball allowed in this rebuild.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 02, 2020, 03:51:41 PM
Now....about Marcus Morris...
Title: Re: PS
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 02, 2020, 04:38:50 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 02, 2020, 03:49:16 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 02, 2020, 02:18:49 PM
Donovan Mitchell to sign max extension with JAZZ. 

So much for our team's "Wish List."


No hero ball allowed in this rebuild.


Were you guys down for giving Barrett and 2 number ones?


https://sports.yahoo.com/knicks-fans-forget-dononvan-mitchell-185451288.html
Title: Re: PS
Post by: bodiddley on September 02, 2020, 04:54:07 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 02, 2020, 04:38:50 PM
Were you guys down for giving Barrett and 2 number ones?
https://sports.yahoo.com/knicks-fans-forget-dononvan-mitchell-185451288.html

I'd go RJB and a 1st plus some detritus such as Franc or Knox.

Two 1sts?  Depends on the protections and years.
Knix aren't really in good shape for anything, so adding a young star is the best bet.
You'd have Donovan and Mitch to build around. 

But why would Utah do that and why would Mitchell want to play for NYK?

So who do people prefer Booker or Mitchell?
(either on the Knix or just in general)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 02, 2020, 05:59:05 PM
Mitchell is out

Oladipo and Beal seem to be in play.
Title: Re: Trumpster Fire
Post by: Echo4 on September 02, 2020, 06:23:00 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on September 02, 2020, 12:44:49 PM
I'm not saying I like the guy. I'm saying why some like the guy. Some shit about him is real. Ain't nothing real about Joe. Hope I don't have to say I told you so.

Pretty ironic to say that nothing about Joe is real, but some shit about Trump is real, Lester.

About the only shit about Trump that is real is that he is a real conman.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 02, 2020, 07:18:31 PM
So maybe MIA knocks MIL out in the 2nd round, causing Giannis for no explicable reason to demand a trade to the Knix...

MIA outplaying Bucks, up 9 after 1Q, dropping 38.
Early 3rd foul on Middleton is dangerous.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 02, 2020, 07:34:44 PM
Biden can really read.

Biden can really express how the nation is supposed to respond to an event according to the constitution.

Biden really has plans for what to do in office besides stealing everything in reach and to enable much besides to be similarly stolen, a la trump, while lying to make himself look good.

Let’s see who’s available at 8. No trade ups and no monster star chases. Opportunities always arise, especially for teams with lots of assets.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 02, 2020, 08:34:00 PM
Let’s see who’s available at 8. No trade ups and no monster star chases. Opportunities always arise, especially for teams with lots of assets.


Fine with this

Add three picks - no deals

but only if we re-sign MarMo.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 02, 2020, 08:43:27 PM
Giannis just 12 shots through three quarters

Butler just eight

Lets see where they end up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 02, 2020, 09:31:03 PM
19, 8, 6, 6, 5, 2

Estimated salaries of our sweet six for '20-'21

Knox, Mitch, Frank, Dennis. Julius, RJ

Another 3 mil for Iggy and Pinson

Thats 8 guys  50-ish mil

Bye to

Portis, Gibson, Ellington, Payton, Bullock, Dotson, Harkless
Title: Re: Trumpster Fire
Post by: lesterluv on September 02, 2020, 09:54:12 PM
Quote from: Echo4 on September 02, 2020, 06:23:00 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on September 02, 2020, 12:44:49 PM
I'm not saying I like the guy. I'm saying why some like the guy. Some shit about him is real. Ain't nothing real about Joe. Hope I don't have to say I told you so.

Pretty ironic to say that nothing about Joe is real, but some shit about Trump is real, Lester.

About the only shit about Trump that is real is that he is a real conman.

I wish I was wrong. If I was, he wouldn't be president. But to a whole bunch of folks outside the coastal bubbles those little bits of truth amidst the lies and demagoguery resonate enough — Michael Moore saw it and called it last time while Hillary was sitting with the moneymen who pulled her strings. One can easily make the argument that the plagiarist who authored the 1994 crime bill and pushed through 2005 bankruptcy bill is the real conman. I see no need to personally..he is what he is, which is awful, but better than Mr. Orange.

Speaking of awful, those two end of game foul calls were awful, lol. Really a disgrace for NBA playoff games to end that way..the game has sunk low.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 02, 2020, 10:27:05 PM
the last few minutes of that game were a fucking joke.

The refs bucked up
Title: Re: So I see the theme of the week is to ....
Post by: carlos123 on September 02, 2020, 10:47:07 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on September 02, 2020, 12:02:51 PM

If he loses it ain’t cause of us, it’s cause of a nationwide campaign of voter suppression and disenfranchisment that Pelosi and Joe woke up to last week, that Sanders and Abrams been working on forever, that brought us Bush II (yeah, check it, it wasn’t Ralph Nader, it wasn’t Palm Beach Jews, it wasn’t hanging chad or a “butterfly ballot” it was 100,000+ dem voters swept clean off the voting rolls, a successful gambit now being deployed nationwide at an election office and post office near you, the only way the Repubs can eke out another win or two before being swamped by a demographic tide, going on full tilt unchecked during 8 Obama years cause his folks were raking in the money and didn't give a fuck).

*** Jill Stein was such a "tool", I'm wit ya there..

Post Office ... Have you guys seen all of the closed mailboxes pulled off the ground and Post Office baskets strewn around all over Manhattan? My vote may not count for much, but still I'm voting early and in-person. Trump and Co. have made sure mail-in-ballots won't count, and Dems. should wake up to that.

Demographic tide? Republicans will make sure it doesn't matter. Just more voter suppression will take care of that. They're really good at it, that assuming that we'll have any more significant elections if they manage to install Donald Pandemic for a second term.
Title: Re: and in addition to those wiped off the rolls, which did decide the election, btw
Post by: carlos123 on September 02, 2020, 10:59:43 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on September 02, 2020, 12:35:54 PM

What about latinos? Shouldn't they have been scared by Donald's anti-immigrant noise? Probably didn't need to be, Obama was the DEPORTATION KING..despite that wall business and ice noise, the Donald's ice squads haven't touched o-Man's #'s, not even close. It's like Dotson vs Booker in the race for a scoring title. Dem/Repub what's the difference? The difference? Dems were worse.


Les, thanks for telling me how I should feel. Talk about condescension.

You really think Donald Pandemic anti-immigrant ACTIONS are only noise? What world do you live in?

Obama deported only people who had committed crimes, a lot of them, but that was not scary at all, at least not to me and the people I know.

FYI, I am scared by Donald Pandemic, Stephen Miller and all of their minions. They have deported and will only increase deportations of Latinos who have never committed a crime, even if we have been loyal American citizens for 20 or 30 years.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 02, 2020, 11:23:00 PM
And the triple double in the feature game tonight goes to...



Chris "Not Much Left In Tank" Paul.
Title: Mr. heh
Post by: carlos123 on September 03, 2020, 12:02:03 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 02, 2020, 11:23:00 PM

- No one will be safe in Biden's America 


- No one IS safe in Donald Pandemic’s America

Except for Chamaco Cartero, of course.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 03, 2020, 05:31:27 AM
I deleted a rude and superfluous post.

OKC is likely now to want to shed some salary commitment for more flexibility.
Title: Big Brown Quaalude - Made People Feel Good - Cause They Saw Whatever They Wanted
Post by: lesterluv on September 03, 2020, 08:33:11 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on September 02, 2020, 10:59:43 PM

Les, thanks for telling me how I should feel. Talk about condescension.

No, how you feel is your business. I'm telling you what you should know. As apparently you didn't. Which isn't that surprising. A lot of mythmaking about the former prez. For me, the highpoint of the Obama years was when he gave a shout-out to atheists at the inauguration, then it was all downhill, lol.

Quote
Obama deported only people who had committed crimes, a lot of them, but that was not scary at all, at least not to me and the people I know.

Obama was the DEPORTATION KING. More than any other president before...or..since. Nearly double Bush! Criminals my ass. Barack had that ice shit hummmmmmmmmmming...More NONCRIMINAL DEPORTATIONS in his first year than Trump TOTAL DEPORTATIONS any year. And it kept going from there.

Presidential candidate Joe Biden says it was a “big mistake” for the Obama administration to have deported hundreds of thousands of people without criminal records
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/time-biden-calls-obama-deportations-big-mistake-69010125

Trump isn't matching Obama deportation numbers
https://www.axios.com/immigration-ice-deportation-trump-obama-a72a0a44-540d-46bc-a671-cd65cf72f4b1.html (https://www.axios.com/immigration-ice-deportation-trump-obama-a72a0a44-540d-46bc-a671-cd65cf72f4b1.html)



https://www.huffpost.com/entry/hard-truths-about-obamas-deportation-priorities_b_58b3c9e7e4b0658fc20f979e
 (https://www.huffpost.com/entry/hard-truths-about-obamas-deportation-priorities_b_58b3c9e7e4b0658fc20f979e)

The mainstream media keeps repeating the falsehood that Obama focused on deporting serious criminals. As the ‘New York Times’ put it in a recent article, “Gone are the Obama-era rules that required them to focus only on serious criminals.” The editorial reinforced this characterization, stating “ICE and the Border Patrol under Mr. Obama were ordered to focus on arresting serious criminals and national-security risks.”

The data from the Department of Homeland Security tells a very different story.

From 2009-2015, 56% of all immigrants removed from the country had no criminal convictions.

The preliminary data from 2016, when Obama was still in office, suggests that this trend of deporting non-criminals continued. What’s more, a good portion of the so-called criminal deportees were arrested on low-level misdemeanor charges such as marijuana possession.
Title: Little Bits of Truth
Post by: lesterluv on September 03, 2020, 08:54:45 AM
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/donald-trump-hillary-clinton-has-caused-tremendous-death/
Donald Trump said Hillary Clinton "caused tremendous death" during her time as President Obama's secretary of state.

"The entire world has been upset. The entire world, it's a different place. During Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton's term, she's done a horrible job. She's caused so many of the problems. And let me tell you something. She has caused death. She has caused tremendous death with incompetent decisions," Trump said.

He cited Clinton's vote in favor of the war in Iraq, compared to his opposition to the war (which did not begin publicly until the year after the war started), and said she was responsible for the Syrian migrant crisis and the deterioration in Libya.

"If we would have never done anything in the Middle East, we would have a much safer world right now," he said.

Biden.....lol.....a tool, a conman, a liar,
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/feb/17/joe-biden-role-iraq-war

Biden did vastly more than just vote for the war. Yet his role in bringing about that war remains mostly unknown or misunderstood by the public. When the war was debated and then authorized by the US Congress in 2002, Democrats controlled the Senate and Biden was chair of the Senate committee on foreign relations. Biden himself had enormous influence as chair and argued strongly in favor of the 2002 resolution granting President Bush the authority to invade Iraq.

“I do not believe this is a rush to war,” Biden said a few days before the vote. “I believe it is a march to peace and security. I believe that failure to overwhelmingly support this resolution is likely to enhance the prospects that war will occur …”

But he had a power much greater than his own words. He was able to choose all 18 witnesses in the main Senate hearings on Iraq. And he mainly chose people who supported a pro-war position. They argued in favor of “regime change as the stated US policy” and warned of “a nuclear-armed Saddam sometime in this decade”. That Iraqis would “welcome the United States as liberators” And that Iraq “permits known al-Qaida members to live and move freely about in Iraq” and that “they are being supported”.

The lies about al-Qaida were perhaps the most transparently obvious of the falsehoods created to justify the Iraq war. As anyone familiar with the subject matter could testify, Saddam Hussein ran a secular government and had a hatred, which was mutual, for religious extremists like al-Qaida. But Biden did not choose from among the many expert witnesses who would have explained that to the Senate, and to the media.
Title: Re: Big Brown Quaalude - Made People Feel Good - Cause They Saw Whatever They Wanted
Post by: NeedsAdjustments on September 03, 2020, 09:01:58 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on September 03, 2020, 08:33:11 AM
Obama was the DEPORTATION KING. More than any other president before...or..since. Nearly double Bush!

Ass backwards.  Bush almost double the number of Obama deportations.  Clinton more than that:

https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/obama-record-deportations-deporter-chief-or-not (https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/obama-record-deportations-deporter-chief-or-not)

 
Quote from: lesterluv on September 03, 2020, 08:33:11 AM
Criminals my ass. Barack had that ice shit hummmmmmmmmmming...More NONCRIMINAL DEPORTATIONS in his first year than Trump TOTAL DEPORTATIONS any year. And it kept going from there.

Obama Administration focused on recent entries.  So yes a large percentage of deportations were non-criminals.  But in terms of rate of total deportations, Trump doubled the number of non-criminal deportations.  Trump also has increased operations deeper into the country, which catches more long term immigrants who have put down roots.  Precisely the kind of thing that Obama's DACA was meant to address.  So the focus on deportation numbers misses the bigger picture.  Trump's policy unquestionably more cruel.  Before you get into the restrictions on legal immigration, the muslim ban, the all but ended asylum policy, and oh yeah, the family separations and caging of kids.
Title: Re: Little Bits of Truth
Post by: NeedsAdjustments on September 03, 2020, 09:04:07 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on September 03, 2020, 08:54:45 AM
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/donald-trump-hillary-clinton-has-caused-tremendous-death/
Donald Trump said Hillary Clinton "caused tremendous death" during her time as President Obama's secretary of state.

"The entire world has been upset. The entire world, it's a different place. During Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton's term, she's done a horrible job. She's caused so many of the problems. And let me tell you something. She has caused death. She has caused tremendous death with incompetent decisions," Trump said.

He cited Clinton's vote in favor of the war in Iraq, compared to his opposition to the war (which did not begin publicly until the year after the war started), and said she was responsible for the Syrian migrant crisis and the deterioration in Libya.

"If we would have never done anything in the Middle East, we would have a much safer world right now," he said.

Not sure what you think the above proves, but uncritically posting Trump quotes doesn't reflect well on your judgement.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on September 03, 2020, 10:21:32 AM
I think it shows what I've been arguing, the little kernels amidst the vitriol and lies, and why he appeals to different folks, If the Dems had understood, we wouldn't have him as prez. Yes it's true, Clinton/Biden were key pieces of the war machine, the Iraq-Libya-trail that leads us to the migrant crisis, Brexit, hard right turns in Europe, and yes, the Donald as prez. My judgement is just fine thank you..and holy moly..this came out of the blue for me, anyway, wow! Very cool.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/03/sports/basketball/steve-nash-hired-brooklyn-nets.html
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 03, 2020, 10:36:43 AM
I don't know how Clinton was responsible for Syria.  And if this were the appropriate forum I'd go on a lengthy explanation why it was wise to remove Qaddafi when an opportunity arose.  Though Obama mistakenly thought he could rely on Europe to handle the aftermath/peace in a relatively small homogenous country (population-wise). 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on September 03, 2020, 10:53:07 AM
Bo, sipping a tea in the Chinese shopping mall, thinks it was great to get rid of Qaddafi.


For Libyans, about to enter decade two of misery and chaos, not so much great.

*** well, maybe waz good for those homeless 'n indigent typez, misery loves company they say:) Just ask those Yemenis!

Almost as bad as the destruction of the fully functioning country of Iraq, which led to...

Any of the many folks I've worked with at UNHCR can tell you what Libya's destruction did to the migrant flow to Europe (open dem floodgates)..which has led to..

Trump was right, leave that **ish alone, and compared to his predecessors, he relatively has...but I'll take it to another forum, or just get back to work while you folks play tag-team the dawg with the message you don't like for awhile longer.

But before I go....lol, let's set the record straight, there was only one KING.




Quote from: NeedsAdjustments on September 03, 2020, 09:01:58 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on September 03, 2020, 08:33:11 AM
Obama was the DEPORTATION KING. More than any other president before...or..since. Nearly double Bush!

Ass backwards.  Bush almost double the number of Obama deportations.  Clinton more than that:
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/immigration/article122715474.html
 (https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/immigration/article122715474.html)https://inthesetimes.com/article/trump-obama-deportations-georgia-immigration (https://inthesetimes.com/article/trump-obama-deportations-georgia-immigration)
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/human-rights-groups-outraged-over-obamas-deportation-proposal#51295 (http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/human-rights-groups-outraged-over-obamas-deportation-proposal#51295)
https://unitedwedream.org/2014/09/breaking-president-obama-agrees-deport-70000-people-separate-countless-families/
 (https://unitedwedream.org/2014/09/breaking-president-obama-agrees-deport-70000-people-separate-countless-families/) https://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2012/12/24/167970002/obama-administration-deported-record-1-5-million-people (https://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2012/12/24/167970002/obama-administration-deported-record-1-5-million-people)
https://reason.com/2019/06/27/actually-joe-biden-and-the-obama-administration-deported-more-people-than-trump/ (https://reason.com/2019/06/27/actually-joe-biden-and-the-obama-administration-deported-more-people-than-trump/)
https://theconversation.com/immigrants-deported-under-obama-share-stories-of-terror-and-rights-violations-74212 (https://theconversation.com/immigrants-deported-under-obama-share-stories-of-terror-and-rights-violations-74212)
Newly released official figures show that during the first seven years of President Barack Obama’s presidency, more than 2.7 million foreign nationals were deported — the largest number in more than a century. Figures contained in the 2015 Yearbook of Immigration Statistics, issued in mid-December, show that from the time Obama was inaugurated as America’s first black president on Jan. 20, 2009, through Sept. 30, 2015, a total of 2,749,854 undocumented immigrants were removed from the United States.

That’s a record.

No president since deportation figures have been kept in the 1890s has been linked to such a high number of removals, according to the Yearbook, considered the “bible” of immigration statistics among people who deal in immigration, such as attorneys who represent immigrants in court, activists who advocate for the rights of immigrants and journalists who cover the immigration beat. The runner-up behind Obama was President George W. Bush, under whose watch 2,012,539 were removed. During Bill Clinton’s presidency, 869,646 immigrants were kicked out, Yearbook figures show.

*********The armed conflict in Libya escalated in 2019, and as a result, 893,000 people, including 268,000 children,1 require humanitarian assistance. Children in Tripoli, Derna and urban areas in the west and south are particularly vulnerable. There are nearly 356,000 internally displaced persons and 448,000 returnees.2 Approximately 243,000 people require water, sanitation and hygiene (WASH) assistance, 127 children are in need of education support, 526,000 people require health assistance and 220,000 children need protection services.3 Following the Libyan National Army incursion on the Government of National Accord in Tripoli and the conflict in Murzuq, 170,000 people have been newly displaced.4 There have been widespread violations of international law, including attacks on health, water and education facilities and humanitarian workers.5 Since April 2019, 500,000 children have experienced disruptions to their education in western Libya.6 Conflict-affected areas are experiencing water shortages, stock-outs of health supplies and vaccine-preventable diseases, including measles. Of the 636,000 migrants and refugees in Libya, 8 per cent are minors vulnerable to grave violations of child rights.7 Detained migrant and refugee children are held in inhumane conditions and detention centres have been hit by airstrikes. In 2019, over 700 migrants and refugees, including children, died crossing the Mediterranean from Libya.The situation in Libya remained volatile throughout the reporting period with a conflict of variable intensity that continued to put the lives of civilians at risk and to generate new internal displacement. The suffering from the unprecedented bombing and shelling in urban areas in the Western Libya, deterioration of services and rapidly declining economy resulting in increased suffering of millions of children and their families in Libya cannot be underscored. Since the start of the year, at least 18 schools have been damaged as a result of the armed conflict, affecting around 15,890 children. Continuous attacks on the water system have jeopardized health and hygiene among the civilian population, particularly those most vulnerable, including children. At least 127 wells have been rendered out of services as a result of these
32
attacks, with roughly a loss of 650,000 m water/day . Regular long hours’ power cuts have further affected the people
of Libya in areas of active conflict and surrounding areas. The attacks on health facilities also continued as during the
reporting period, the UN Support Mission in Libya (UNSMIL) documented two incidents targeting healthcare personnel,
3 nine assaults on health facilities and one attack on ambulance .
In April and May 2020, the aggressive offensive by the Government of National Accord (GNA) to control Tripoli and western areas saw the Libyan National Army (LNA) withdrawing from the frontlines and as a result, approximately 28,000 people (5,550 families) including 11,000 children were displaced from Tarhouna – one of the strongholds of the LNA, with majority of them displaced to Benghazi, Ejdabia, and Bani Waleed. Most of the IDPs moved with family members or rented houses, however, the authorities converted nine schools into IDP shelter centres4 to accommodate the IDPs from Tarhouna. Similarly, to accommodate the IDPs from Tarhouna, an additional nine schools were converted into IDP
5 shelters in June 2020, thus, bringing the total number of schools used as IDP shelter centres to 34 .
The reporting period also saw an increase in reports of continuous violations of international humanitarian law after the
withdrawal of the LNA from Tarhouna. Reportedly over 100 bodies including women and children were found in a
hospital in Tarhouna. In addition, at least 19 unidentified bodies were discovered in 11 mass graves in Tarhouna. The
GNA, UNSMIL and UN Secretary-General condemned the discovery of these mass graves and urged for a prompt and
transparent investigations by commissioning a ‘fact-finding mission’ by the UN Human Rights Council. The withdrawal
of the armed groups f rom the Western Libya brought about a grotesque turn. Land mines, Improvised Explosive Devices
(IED), and explosiveremnants of war (ERW) have been found inand around civilian houses in Tripoli and western areas,
putting populations on the move, especially IDPs and returnees, at significant risk. During May 22 to June 22, 2020, the
Libyan Centre for Mine Action and War Remnants recorded a total of 127 victims from mine explosions in Tripoli and
around Sirte, including 55 members of mine-clearing teams who were killed and injured during demining. On 28 May,
UNICEF, together with the UNMAS and the LibMAC, condemned the use of IED/booby traps against civilians and impact
6 on children .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: NeedsAdjustments on September 03, 2020, 11:15:10 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on September 03, 2020, 10:21:32 AM
I think it shows what I've been arguing, the little kernels amidst the vitriol and lies, and why he appeals to different folks, If the Dems had understood, we wouldn't have him as prez.

Trump supported the Iraq war when it began though he was in the unique position of being able to state that preference on Howard Stern while not making policy. 

Quote from: lesterluv on September 03, 2020, 10:21:32 AM
Yes it's true, Clinton/Biden were key pieces of the war machine, the Iraq-Libya-trail that leads us to the migrant crisis, Brexit, hard right turns in Europe, and yes, the Donald as prez. My judgement is just fine thank you..

Not really, if you think US politics follows trends in Europe.  Immigration from the Middle East a "problem" there, not in the US which saw only a modest increase after the wars.  Brexit led to Trump?  Uh, no.

US follows its own political trend lines, and I don't think you need a history lesson on race in the US to know we have our own sources of racial animus and anti-immigrant fervor without pointing to wars in the Middle East that most Republicans support anyway.  Trump came onto the scene talking about Mexican Rapists and the deplorables ate it up.  That was a table set by the Tea Party, the opening up of our elections to wealthy interests that exploited racial animus to get tax cuts and fewer regulations, and a Republican Party that happily went back to the Willie Horton playbook.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: NeedsAdjustments on September 03, 2020, 11:19:24 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on September 03, 2020, 10:53:07 AM
The runner-up behind Obama was President George W. Bush, under whose watch 2,012,539 were removed. During Bill Clinton’s presidency, 869,646 immigrants were kicked out, Yearbook figures show.[/i][/size]

I posted the numbers on deportations.  Bush was double Obama, not the other way around.  You want to focus even more narrowly on removals (where no, Obama did not double up Bush) that only further focuses on one tree in a forest that still points to a Trump Administration that has been unmatched in its cruelty toward immigrants.
Title: Time to Scratch That Assz Again
Post by: lesterluv on September 03, 2020, 11:30:56 AM
Quote from: NeedsAdjustments on September 03, 2020, 11:19:24 AM

I posted the numbers on deportations. 

lol, I don't know why you can't read, lol...but it's not my problem. Out for reeeeeel.

Quote from: lesterluv on September 03, 2020, 10:53:07 AM

Newly released official figures show that during the first seven years of President Barack Obama’s presidency, more than 2.7 million foreign nationals were deported

I mean you reeeeeelllly reeeeeellly reelllly can't read, lol.

Quote from: NeedsAdjustments
Brexit led to Trump?  Uh, no.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: NeedsAdjustments on September 03, 2020, 11:36:40 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on September 03, 2020, 11:30:56 AM
Quote from: NeedsAdjustments on September 03, 2020, 11:19:24 AM

I posted the numbers on deportations. 

lol, I don't know why you can't read, lol...but it's not my problem. Out for reeeeeel.

Quote from: lesterluv on September 03, 2020, 10:53:07 AM

Newly released official figures show that during the first seven years of President Barack Obama’s presidency, more than 2.7 million foreign nationals were deported

Again...I posted the numbers on total deportations, numbers which the above does not dispute.  I'll assume you didn't bother to look at them, and not that you did but didn't understand.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 03, 2020, 11:46:50 AM
Qaddafi was a scourge to humanity.  A detailed post here. (http://forums.escapefromelba.com/index.php?topic=55.msg142543#msg142543)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 03, 2020, 01:35:39 PM
Quote from: NeedsAdjustments on September 03, 2020, 11:36:40 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on September 03, 2020, 11:30:56 AM
Quote from: NeedsAdjustments on September 03, 2020, 11:19:24 AM

I posted the numbers on deportations. 

lol, I don't know why you can't read, lol...but it's not my problem. Out for reeeeeel.

Quote from: lesterluv on September 03, 2020, 10:53:07 AM

Newly released official figures show that during the first seven years of President Barack Obama’s presidency, more than 2.7 million foreign nationals were deported

Again...I posted the numbers on total deportations, numbers which the above does not dispute.  I'll assume you didn't bother to look at them, and not that you did but didn't understand.


yawwwwwn...
Title: Re: Trumpster Fire
Post by: Jerrya on September 03, 2020, 06:28:23 PM
Quote from: Echo4 on September 02, 2020, 06:23:00 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on September 02, 2020, 12:44:49 PM
I'm not saying I like the guy. I'm saying why some like the guy. Some shit about him is real. Ain't nothing real about Joe. Hope I don't have to say I told you so.

Pretty ironic to say that nothing about Joe is real, but some shit about Trump is real, Lester.

About the only shit about Trump that is real is that he is a real conman.

And  he's not all there...I'm still waiting for his tax returns. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 03, 2020, 10:20:57 PM
Ok here's the trade -

Mitchell Robinson for LaMelo Ball.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 03, 2020, 11:23:10 PM
We'd have to give more ...
Title: Re: Big Brown Quaalude - Made People Feel Good - Cause They Saw Whatever They Wanted
Post by: carlos123 on September 03, 2020, 11:48:52 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on September 03, 2020, 08:33:11 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on September 02, 2020, 10:59:43 PM

Les, thanks for telling me how I should feel. Talk about condescension.

No, how you feel is your business.

Ok Les, so now it's no longer
Quote from: lesterluv on September 02, 2020, 12:35:54 PM

What about latinos? Shouldn't they have been scared by Donald's anti-immigrant noise? Probably didn't need to be, Obama was the DEPORTATION KING..despite that wall business and ice noise, the Donald's ice squads haven't touched o-Man's #'s, not even close. It's like Dotson vs Booker in the race for a scoring title. Dem/Repub what's the difference? The difference? Dems were worse.


Meaning latinos should not FEEL scared anymore. We (or I) are simply IGNORANT. Again...

Quote
I'm telling you what you should know. As apparently you didn't. Which isn't that surprising.

Let me tell you something I know: A pet project of Stephen Miller, just for the second term, is to review records of naturalization. I don't even want to try to guess the stuff they can make up if they don't like the political inclinations of of the naturalized citizen under review. Do you think I should change my name to Charles and my affiliation to Republican? It may make me FEEL secure instead of scared, who knows?  Oh wait, no, not how I fell, I mean, it may make me LESS IGNORANT.

PS. Chamaco Cartero is very  bored with all of this, in case you people didn't know.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on September 04, 2020, 08:58:54 AM
Look — again — I don't know how you should feel. I don't know how anyone should feel.

Well, except myself.

I feel like voting for Joe Biden rather than the fat fascist & racist killer of @200,000 Americans.

But I'll suggest to you, and the evidence suggests as well, that a good slice of Latinos weren't that scared of the orange man after 8 years of a right-tacking Democrat fraud and stayed their asses home last time. And, depending on what they cared about, they didn't have to be. The most dangerous thing in the world is a pol who fakes left and goes right.

And they may do it again. Even if Uncle Joe calls 'em out for not-being "brown enough" like he did with blacks.

But don't worry, they won't get the blame if Biden can't pull this off after decades spent in sole service of incarcerating black predators and maximizing credit card company profits and a long summer in his basement, and  it's the Donald who wins again.

Lester's crew of far-left Antifa-loving folks will surely be the piñata.

***OT: Props to Anunoby for demonstrating how a playoff game can end when it's not being desecrated by a gang of refs making calls that wouldn't pass for a foul in a kindergarten league.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 04, 2020, 09:18:41 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on September 04, 2020, 08:58:54 AM
The most dangerous thing in the world is a pol who fakes left and goes right.

Utter nonsense ...
Title: Sip S'more Tea 'n tell me agin how LibyansluvHillary
Post by: lesterluv on September 04, 2020, 09:41:09 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 04, 2020, 09:18:41 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on September 04, 2020, 08:58:54 AM
The most dangerous thing in the world is a pol who fakes left and goes right.

Utter nonsense ...

lol, expected from the man who still maintains Kyle Lowry had a terrible playoffs last year

*** wait, lemme guess, he had a bad night last night too?


*** how those homeless 'n indigents making out these days?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on September 04, 2020, 09:48:18 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 04, 2020, 09:18:41 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on September 04, 2020, 08:58:54 AM
The most dangerous thing in the world is a pol who fakes left and goes right.

Utter nonsense ...

lol, I finally got it...I know why you're so upset. Cause to you, the most dangerous thing in the world is parking your car in an empty lot at night and suddenly seeing Zach Randolph standing next to you.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 04, 2020, 09:51:41 AM
Quote
***OT: Props to Anunoby for demonstrating how a playoff game can end when it's not being desecrated by a gang of refs making calls that wouldn't pass for a foul in a kindergarten league.

I hate to hi-jack the thread and talk hoops but, yeah sometimes you just let the guys play ball. And we saw the Raptors execute a game winning play that had more movements than a Patek Phillipe. and the refs didn't get in the way. Albeit, it was only half-a-second  So kudos to the Raps and OG on the precision on that last play.

But there was a sequence in the first half when there were like 3 plays almost back to back to back where the refs were asked to review plays for fouls and I had to listen to Stan Van Dumby spout gibberish and be wholy inconsistent in his reasoning. He was fucking terrible last night. 

sorry for the play-off chatter on the Knicks, thread.

carry-on

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on September 04, 2020, 09:54:13 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on September 04, 2020, 09:51:41 AM

sorry for the play-off chatter on the Knicks, thread.

carry-on

lol, sorry, My bad, I'm done and thanks for bringing us back.


**** Can't vouch for this forum's very own Amy Cooper, however
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 04, 2020, 09:59:36 AM
Just saw thw play

Nice to see Fall was on the inbounder

CLEARLY Jaylen Brown was at fault - and he said so himself.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: NeedsAdjustments on September 04, 2020, 10:03:22 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on September 04, 2020, 09:48:18 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 04, 2020, 09:18:41 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on September 04, 2020, 08:58:54 AM
The most dangerous thing in the world is a pol who fakes left and goes right.

Utter nonsense ...

lol, I finally got it...I know why you're so upset. Cause to you, the most dangerous thing in the world is parking your car in an empty lot at night and suddenly seeing Zach Randolph standing next to you.

Not sure why that follows from bodiddley's comment. 

What I would say to further interpret it, is that Obama did not "fake left" on immigration.  He was a moderate in the Senate (supporting and signing border security bills) and ran as one in 2008 when his platform included stepped up enforcement along with a path to citizenship.

The path to citizenship and real immigration reform died in the House, but DACA hardly the move of a politician on the Right. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 04, 2020, 10:11:45 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 04, 2020, 09:59:36 AM
Just saw thw play

Nice to see Fall was on the inbounder

CLEARLY Jaylen Brown was at fault - and he said so himself.

Clearly!

I had to watch that play several times to see all the moving parts on O and D. And how it fit.

Brown threw himself under the bus, but he had little choice on that last play but to initially guard Siakim, then pick-up Gasol on the switch (who would have been wide open for a lob or dunk) if Brown left him to guard the far-corner 3. Even with that Brown was a finger-tip away from tipping that shot.

Brown may take the ressponsibility, but he had 3 guys to watch in that sequence, but the Raps made a great play.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 04, 2020, 10:29:00 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on September 04, 2020, 09:48:18 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 04, 2020, 09:18:41 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on September 04, 2020, 08:58:54 AM
The most dangerous thing in the world is a pol who fakes left and goes right.

Utter nonsense ...

lol, I finally got it...I know why you're so upset. Cause to you, the most dangerous thing in the world is parking your car in an empty lot at night and suddenly seeing Zach Randolph standing next to you.

Race baiting asshole.

Back to Ignore ...
Title: Yin & Yang
Post by: chipstern on September 04, 2020, 11:45:18 AM
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcS_gwo9JX_Wni6oXzAhiYdCYvknFl_KCQJOBQ&usqp=CAU)
Title: Les and Zach
Post by: carlos123 on September 04, 2020, 02:21:45 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on September 04, 2020, 09:48:18 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 04, 2020, 09:18:41 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on September 04, 2020, 08:58:54 AM
The most dangerous thing in the world is a pol who fakes left and goes right.

Utter nonsense ...

lol, I finally got it...I know why you're so upset. Cause to you, the most dangerous thing in the world is parking your car in an empty lot at night and suddenly seeing Zach Randolph standing next to you.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/mcvFth20yk3D0Ikp7jKvNd6NukMqy0HHW9jcXpofsDVQGt0Ya01LZOG1JZ7BqKpsLW8F92YjAZLeWdrTf0Hz0KuuCKUXzo5WwodaFl7s7F6f0X_LbXu9pfEQswe17S1jwuj59S15awYSSSPp5aAt2i710vnQjUgDHrOswQeAs4DszdyE4yce838jZkzisKZ9HJ0wsBKFxaunBC9-4G0-Ilc8yOKro1UM5JK5JmlJB4kH2MBrsR8x7mYs4UQEEoPJPKnxqkYvOXFZ_zvVXx9sreh7xt0RLzrQS91k9zB8qzRHXfL4Xz0mViQg9Ba_QbW02F1Bg1W07bDUo42m-AYSNZnXp0SdMebaATg2d0qtM6qiyVshhzzgNPCNLICDE1SrmkVXSTM3leIDbk6O9RIPuqpL1RgqZ5ZKIAs4ecJtdMpU9bckI4zmRapM3fW0quBsybfoK3VxMYVK_eZaRBfR6hitgRoHsS1GBOPAHeQ7Us76Xyb_SAcj59Z5lO9D0aTuQXljGzmQ7z4sriqgFTjtsOLZBs7NOdW9A0L17zw89TcRkw_cPeBNyYA-veT4ut6JASdddWig27Wd8R-nEvl6Hh4I1kgS4ET4duA5MFCybLyfNdUgsEAJNxmd3sNGVJJBbTFy9ZxhoTgMxQPgmE7VHQ69Hb-RoDy3QnYkb_BhapHlHG-Sj1ioiM8C372E=w788-h542-no?authuser=0)

BoZ, don't mind Les' silly comment. He always had a fascination with Zach, for some reason.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/VrDiuzmnagr95RO1vXojLT6UeQ9bvUpSt2GEzB_8bApBSv6KySvfBRONN5pLeUpkVpeTRQgMFAX1ZDo7gkwFROcDXyjtPt4dhoot_fqmFTWr2Q1SFgISY_1a4nmiphwoavMMdhcuV2cKkKsaAld2cFTJbzlmDUu4KApHZCA12UYuNoI2kedrCgbI6vigOtmxAZ_gzFWEjmVzSC2752d91RJUzejO0Eu2ismPIGFT37MW1SLDKg9PFUEOv593t9jR2hPb4SLf288bu-63JSCOtlZKn4dVqKQT9aLXmi3Fzn3CuixVCu-1uP5Z6nPGqSuHnrjaAeHV80yQXMc8Dbyh7XuFGsIPHl3Xfu0e15N5B2uT7foU-sDRH_0Omy6zqeWnF3xT1EmaXoftkGEqBeoQpGlgLBVVux6Pb_jHarrO1iKDHhu-IZSy6rtI43sMYxyyld52RaNAec6gk88GrYPM8zz6mHIyr8f0cI4eBR1f_2dhvBepNJzO16KmeSwJUuPqEwOLdGiG-c3S0TY_PHxM408rR3cesN1Rg3Gfn_3fHF1Y5mMf8iYoLb0XSV22m85honVACkvI-v6QQroKlpW2RQ3Woa-u_FvVMsW-hbJIX652iZ080zvoXuiGq0vfGNKMX4YKISFmtCGItZcy8qYiEI0FyxCfvy1DSqvBTukT3zKE3ayoOuyYEsyAxnTq=w1498-h600-no?authuser=0)

Les, your head is hard as a rock but your heart is in the right place. You still my doggie.
Title: Donald Trump, Man Of Character: Keeping It REAL
Post by: chipstern on September 04, 2020, 06:03:17 PM
Hey, Trump most definitely compares favorably to those warmongering faux liberal phonies Obama and Biden.

At least he brought all of those losers and suckers back home.

Save perhaps for those Putzes Putin put a bounty out on. 

(https://www.theparisreview.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/gay-lincoln.jpg)

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt."

(https://a.espncdn.com/photo/2011/0502/nba_g_randolph_200.jpg)

Trump retreats after facing furious backlash over shuttering of military’s Stars and Stripes newspaper

https://www.rawstory.com/2020/09/trump-retreats-after-facing-furious-backlash-over-shuttering-of-militarys-stars-and-stripes-newspaper/?utm_source=push_notifications&fbclid=IwAR2Sh3rFgNh5d4VQ5q_PtumiSiSOjgs-5fnN5N5JD_bOY77ck8yCZkKEt7M (https://www.rawstory.com/2020/09/trump-retreats-after-facing-furious-backlash-over-shuttering-of-militarys-stars-and-stripes-newspaper/?utm_source=push_notifications&fbclid=IwAR2Sh3rFgNh5d4VQ5q_PtumiSiSOjgs-5fnN5N5JD_bOY77ck8yCZkKEt7M)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 04, 2020, 06:33:43 PM
First time hearing Dragic interviewed.  A shame for a player of his stature.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 04, 2020, 06:34:15 PM
Bucks by 15+ tonight.
Title: Re: Donald Trump, Man Of Character: Keeping It REAL
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 04, 2020, 06:40:57 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 04, 2020, 06:03:17 PM
Hey, Trump most definitely compares favorably to those warmongering faux liberal phonies Obama and Biden.

At least he brought all of those losers and suckers back home.

Save perhaps for those Putzes Putin put a bounty out on. 

(https://www.theparisreview.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/gay-lincoln.jpg)

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt."

(https://a.espncdn.com/photo/2011/0502/nba_g_randolph_200.jpg)

Trump retreats after facing furious backlash over shuttering of military’s Stars and Stripes newspaper

https://www.rawstory.com/2020/09/trump-retreats-after-facing-furious-backlash-over-shuttering-of-militarys-stars-and-stripes-newspaper/?utm_source=push_notifications&fbclid=IwAR2Sh3rFgNh5d4VQ5q_PtumiSiSOjgs-5fnN5N5JD_bOY77ck8yCZkKEt7M (https://www.rawstory.com/2020/09/trump-retreats-after-facing-furious-backlash-over-shuttering-of-militarys-stars-and-stripes-newspaper/?utm_source=push_notifications&fbclid=IwAR2Sh3rFgNh5d4VQ5q_PtumiSiSOjgs-5fnN5N5JD_bOY77ck8yCZkKEt7M)


lol
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 04, 2020, 06:43:13 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on September 04, 2020, 10:11:45 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 04, 2020, 09:59:36 AM
Just saw thw play

Nice to see Fall was on the inbounder

CLEARLY Jaylen Brown was at fault - and he said so himself.

Clearly!

I had to watch that play several times to see all the moving parts on O and D. And how it fit.

Brown threw himself under the bus, but he had little choice on that last play but to initially guard Siakim, then pick-up Gasol on the switch (who would have been wide open for a lob or dunk) if Brown left him to guard the far-corner 3. Even with that Brown was a finger-tip away from tipping that shot.

Brown may take the ressponsibility, but he had 3 guys to watch in that sequence, but the Raps made a great play.

You don't understand too well what you see.
Title: Mr. heh is also Mr. lol
Post by: carlos123 on September 04, 2020, 07:00:00 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 04, 2020, 06:40:57 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 04, 2020, 06:03:17 PM
Hey, Trump most definitely compares favorably to those warmongering faux liberal phonies Obama and Biden.

At least he brought all of those losers and suckers back home.

Save perhaps for those Putzes Putin put a bounty out on. 

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt."



lol

Chamaco heh Cartero

Chamaco lol Cartero

Well, at least he has more than one argument, now two. Progress!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on September 04, 2020, 07:09:03 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 04, 2020, 10:29:00 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on September 04, 2020, 09:48:18 AM

lol, I finally got it...I know why you're so upset. Cause to you, the most dangerous thing in the world is parking your car in an empty lot at night and suddenly seeing Zach Randolph standing next to you.

Race baiting asshole.

Back to Ignore ...


G’head. Make my day, lol. Put me on iggy, wiggy….

Quote from: NeedsAdjustments on September 04, 2020, 10:03:22 AM

Not sure why that follows from bodiddley's comment. 

**** Needs, the reference goes back to Bo's multi-year mania v. Zach that even eclipsed Kam’s subsequent vendetta against the Turkish backup center for the Celtics. A litany of code words — lazy, thuggish, wilding, posse, can’t come close to remembering ‘em all, revealing a deep, almost primal white man’s fear.
Title: Re: Donald Trump, Man Of Character: Keeping It REAL
Post by: chipstern on September 04, 2020, 07:11:33 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 04, 2020, 06:40:57 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 04, 2020, 06:03:17 PM
Hey, Trump most definitely compares favorably to those warmongering faux liberal phonies Obama and Biden.

At least he brought all of those losers and suckers back home.

Save perhaps for those Putzes Putin put a bounty out on. 

(https://www.theparisreview.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/gay-lincoln.jpg)

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt."

(https://a.espncdn.com/photo/2011/0502/nba_g_randolph_200.jpg)

Trump retreats after facing furious backlash over shuttering of military’s Stars and Stripes newspaper

https://www.rawstory.com/2020/09/trump-retreats-after-facing-furious-backlash-over-shuttering-of-militarys-stars-and-stripes-newspaper/?utm_source=push_notifications&fbclid=IwAR2Sh3rFgNh5d4VQ5q_PtumiSiSOjgs-5fnN5N5JD_bOY77ck8yCZkKEt7M (https://www.rawstory.com/2020/09/trump-retreats-after-facing-furious-backlash-over-shuttering-of-militarys-stars-and-stripes-newspaper/?utm_source=push_notifications&fbclid=IwAR2Sh3rFgNh5d4VQ5q_PtumiSiSOjgs-5fnN5N5JD_bOY77ck8yCZkKEt7M)


lol
Title: Re: Donald Trump, Man Of Character: Keeping It REAL
Post by: chipstern on September 04, 2020, 07:13:21 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 04, 2020, 06:40:57 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 04, 2020, 06:03:17 PM
Hey, Trump most definitely compares favorably to those warmongering faux liberal phonies Obama and Biden.

At least he brought all of those losers and suckers back home.

Save perhaps for those Putzes Putin put a bounty out on. 

(https://www.theparisreview.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/gay-lincoln.jpg)

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt."

(https://a.espncdn.com/photo/2011/0502/nba_g_randolph_200.jpg)

Trump retreats after facing furious backlash over shuttering of military’s Stars and Stripes newspaper

https://www.rawstory.com/2020/09/trump-retreats-after-facing-furious-backlash-over-shuttering-of-militarys-stars-and-stripes-newspaper/?utm_source=push_notifications&fbclid=IwAR2Sh3rFgNh5d4VQ5q_PtumiSiSOjgs-5fnN5N5JD_bOY77ck8yCZkKEt7M (https://www.rawstory.com/2020/09/trump-retreats-after-facing-furious-backlash-over-shuttering-of-militarys-stars-and-stripes-newspaper/?utm_source=push_notifications&fbclid=IwAR2Sh3rFgNh5d4VQ5q_PtumiSiSOjgs-5fnN5N5JD_bOY77ck8yCZkKEt7M)


lol
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 04, 2020, 08:12:24 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 04, 2020, 06:43:13 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on September 04, 2020, 10:11:45 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 04, 2020, 09:59:36 AM
Just saw thw play

Nice to see Fall was on the inbounder

CLEARLY Jaylen Brown was at fault - and he said so himself.

Clearly!

I had to watch that play several times to see all the moving parts on O and D. And how it fit.

Brown threw himself under the bus, but he had little choice on that last play but to initially guard Siakim, then pick-up Gasol on the switch (who would have been wide open for a lob or dunk) if Brown left him to guard the far-corner 3. Even with that Brown was a finger-tip away from tipping that shot.

Brown may take the ressponsibility, but he had 3 guys to watch in that sequence, but the Raps made a great play.

You don't understand too well what you see.

I feel reasonably comfortable with my base of knowledge aaccumulated over 60 years of watching the game. And I feel comfortable with my analysis of this play after watching it several times.

But i'm always open to hear another reasoned opinion.

Sadly you seldom provide one.

As an aside, I think Theis may own the most cuplability on this play, but playing hypoethicals of what might have happened if, in less than half-a-scond, is a waste of time.

i think it important to understand the Celts D shut down what looked like the first option (FVV in the near corner) shutdown the paint-middle (Gasol) and forced the last option, a cross-court pass to OG in the corner. Unfortunately for the Celts the low probability, last option, was beautifully executed by the Raptors.

I can't be too mad when two very good teams push each other in that way. 

Kid-not only do I understand what I see, but I can also appreciate what I see.

Title: Crowder and Igoudala
Post by: Kam on September 04, 2020, 08:22:09 PM
Good trade Miami made with Memphis to get two solid rotation guys.  Igoudala was sitting out all season but Crowder was a starter averaging 10 and 6 for Memf.  Miami also got Solomon Hill.  They gave up Winslow Waiters and Johnson.  Nice trade.

Sidenote*
Trade happened a week after Crowder took a three pt shot with the game in hand and time running out against the Knicks and got into it with Elfrid Payton.   

With 48.1 seconds left and a Memphis win already well in hand, Crowder stole the ball, dribbled to the corner and shot a 3-pointer. Payton ran over and shoved Crowder in midair, leading to an exchange of shoves.

Sidenote**
Ex-Knick Marcus Morris said Crowder had a lot of "female tendencies" on the court.

Morris and Crowder were fined.  Payton was suspended a game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 04, 2020, 08:38:40 PM
Good trade Miami made with Memphis to get two solid rotation guys.  Igoudala was sitting out all season but Crowder was a starter averaging 10 and 6 for Memf.  Miami also got Solomon Hill.  They gave up Winslow Waiters and Johnson.  Nice trade.




I dont know - Winslow still a hell of a player

And Waiters should be in the Finals.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 04, 2020, 08:49:54 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 04, 2020, 06:34:15 PM
Bucks by 15+ tonight.



ooops
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 04, 2020, 08:56:11 PM
Recall some fans here building a shrine to Budenholzer.

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 04, 2020, 08:57:36 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 04, 2020, 08:49:54 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 04, 2020, 06:34:15 PM
Bucks by 15+ tonight.



ooops

Rasmussen reports?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 04, 2020, 09:18:28 PM
i was pretty certain the Bucks would get back in ithe series tonight, but they imploded in the 4th

and Butler doesn't mind the line at Disney



 
Title: Portrait of Chamaco Cartero
Post by: carlos123 on September 04, 2020, 09:58:34 PM
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3cxdqCEZUGHZ4mAyj2mkZRh0-9pnkza9Hq8Wv-ZcaecDXJ_BgnGci5WnBNvmXyDvCnBRLKW5cKC8G1zzxQyb-3LNZER32Iu2JyQGW6Ok6Ld491yh3SyaNvQSR8oe-d007ts5K7Ede9j6pVuaQsZI9-2=w794-h548-no?authuser=0)

heh

lol
Title: The Boston Raptors
Post by: carlos123 on September 06, 2020, 12:38:08 AM
Hey Bank, now that Chamaco Cartero has gone quiet, how do you think the Boston/Raptors thing is gonna end? I think Ibaka is doing a great job. Tatum too, but not enough the last two games.

Chamaco, you got my permission to come back. Just try to make some sense and write something other than heh and lol. Also, you’ll be safe with Uncle Joe protecting you, so don’t you worry about nothin, you hear?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 06, 2020, 01:30:00 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on September 06, 2020, 12:38:08 AM
Hey Bank, now that Chamaco Cartero has gone quiet, how do you think the Boston/Raptors thing is gonna end? I think Ibaka is doing a great job. Tatum too, but not enough the last two games.

Chamaco, you got my permission to come back. Just try to make some sense and write something other than heh and lol. Also, you’ll be safe with Uncle Joe protecting you, so don’t you worry about nothin, you hear?

Carlos-Before the series I thought the Celts in 6, now let's say some doubts have crept in. Earlier today I posted in another forum that I didn't know who was going to win tonight but I expect a rock-fight, a tough physical game with D dominating O, but it was uglier than I thought. But that I would not write-off the Raps, they are tough and tested and could easily win the series. I'm not happy that I was right.

Celts couldn't hit shit, had trouble with Raps D, (20% from 3s-is pretty bad) and Brown had a miserable night. If he had just a bad night, they probably win.

But most troubling was a lack of intensity from the Celts-or desire or something. they seemed flat when they should have been pumped and pissed about G3.

Game 3 and OG's 3 swung this series hard.

I think the Celts wil play a lot better in G5, whether they shoot better, or can re-assert themselves I don't know anymore than you. But the effort had better be there or I'll be pissed.

I think the loss of Gordo is showing up now. they could use his all-around abilities. Spilled milk.

But mo has clearly swung and the Celts have to punch back.

Tatum had a brutal G3 but was ok tonight. Kemba was invisble and only took about 10 shots, he can't be passive, he needs to shoot. They need Tatum-Kemba-Brown-Smart contributing to win this thing.

best 2 of 3 and these teams are pretty even.

But I expect another low-scoring tough game in Game 5, but hopefully with the Celts showing some FUCKING EMOTION!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 06, 2020, 10:11:32 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on September 06, 2020, 01:30:00 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on September 06, 2020, 12:38:08 AM
Hey Bank, now that Chamaco Cartero has gone quiet, how do you think the Boston/Raptors thing is gonna end? I think Ibaka is doing a great job. Tatum too, but not enough the last two games.

Chamaco, you got my permission to come back. Just try to make some sense and write something other than heh and lol. Also, you’ll be safe with Uncle Joe protecting you, so don’t you worry about nothin, you hear?

Carlos-Before the series I thought the Celts in 6, now let's say some doubts have crept in. Earlier today I posted in another forum that I didn't know who was going to win tonight but I expect a rock-fight, a tough physical game with D dominating O, but it was uglier than I thought. But that I would not write-off the Raps, they are tough and tested and could easily win the series. I'm not happy that I was right.

Celts couldn't hit shit, had trouble with Raps D, (20% from 3s-is pretty bad) and Brown had a miserable night. If he had just a bad night, they probably win.

But most troubling was a lack of intensity from the Celts-or desire or something. they seemed flat when they should have been pumped and pissed about G3.

Game 3 and OG's 3 swung this series hard.

I think the Celts wil play a lot better in G5, whether they shoot better, or can re-assert themselves I don't know anymore than you. But the effort had better be there or I'll be pissed.

I think the loss of Gordo is showing up now. they could use his all-around abilities. Spilled milk.

But mo has clearly swung and the Celts have to punch back.

Tatum had a brutal G3 but was ok tonight. Kemba was invisble and only took about 10 shots, he can't be passive, he needs to shoot. They need Tatum-Kemba-Brown-Smart contributing to win this thing.

best 2 of 3 and these teams are pretty even.

But I expect another low-scoring tough game in Game 5, but hopefully with the Celts showing some FUCKING EMOTION!

Then again....

Aren't the Raptors defending champs?  And one of the best three point shooting teams in the league? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 06, 2020, 11:03:45 AM
Quote from: chipstern on September 06, 2020, 10:11:32 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on September 06, 2020, 01:30:00 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on September 06, 2020, 12:38:08 AM
Hey Bank, now that Chamaco Cartero has gone quiet, how do you think the Boston/Raptors thing is gonna end? I think Ibaka is doing a great job. Tatum too, but not enough the last two games.

Chamaco, you got my permission to come back. Just try to make some sense and write something other than heh and lol. Also, you’ll be safe with Uncle Joe protecting you, so don’t you worry about nothin, you hear?

Carlos-Before the series I thought the Celts in 6, now let's say some doubts have crept in. Earlier today I posted in another forum that I didn't know who was going to win tonight but I expect a rock-fight, a tough physical game with D dominating O, but it was uglier than I thought. But that I would not write-off the Raps, they are tough and tested and could easily win the series. I'm not happy that I was right.

Celts couldn't hit shit, had trouble with Raps D, (20% from 3s-is pretty bad) and Brown had a miserable night. If he had just a bad night, they probably win.

But most troubling was a lack of intensity from the Celts-or desire or something. they seemed flat when they should have been pumped and pissed about G3.

Game 3 and OG's 3 swung this series hard.

I think the Celts wil play a lot better in G5, whether they shoot better, or can re-assert themselves I don't know anymore than you. But the effort had better be there or I'll be pissed.

I think the loss of Gordo is showing up now. they could use his all-around abilities. Spilled milk.

But mo has clearly swung and the Celts have to punch back.

Tatum had a brutal G3 but was ok tonight. Kemba was invisble and only took about 10 shots, he can't be passive, he needs to shoot. They need Tatum-Kemba-Brown-Smart contributing to win this thing.

best 2 of 3 and these teams are pretty even.

But I expect another low-scoring tough game in Game 5, but hopefully with the Celts showing some FUCKING EMOTION!

Then again....

Aren't the Raptors defending champs?  And one of the best three point shooting teams in the league?

Pre-game, I covered the point that the Raps were tough and tested, and could easily win the series, but they're also defending their championship without their best player from last year. IMO the issue was not the Raps making their 3s at a slightly higher % than they usually do, but rather the Celts shooting 20% for 3s. If they hit at roughly their normal rate of about 35%, they make 5 more 3s and theoreticaaly win the game by 7 points.

But bad shooting nights happen, what I didn't like was the seeming lack of intensity from the Cs. The fire to meet a challenge. Raps recaptured it on OGs 3, and the Cs seem to still be staggered by it.

Title: Celtics
Post by: chipstern on September 06, 2020, 03:06:00 PM
Pride Before The Fall. 

Raptors Certainly Answered Their Call To Arms. 

Especially Kyle Lowry. 

Kawhi.

Is human.  Ask the Nuggets. 

Next game ought to be a barn burner. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 06, 2020, 04:11:32 PM
Chip-I'm assuming you're referiring to C-Raps, Game 5

I'm hoping the Celts don't C-Rap the bed but they now know for certain they're in a street fight. and they better fight back. 

And Kawhi is human but he's arguably an NBA top 3, and the Raps aren't as good without him. No team would be.

I didn't see the late game last night, needed something upbeat, so I watched Sophie's Choice, but saw he C-Rapped the game putting up Jalen Brown #s.

both are due for a bounce back.


Here's a question for you guys

you guys like re-shaping the knicks and this came up in another place I play.

Several posters had the Warriors and 76ers as possible landing spots for Giannis in a trade. And a few more teams came up.

Without rehashing the posts, I put forth the knicks have the pieces and apititude (I called it Dolan Desperation) to be serious players in pursuing the Hellenic Hero, and laid out a deal. (maybe I'll repost it later if this generates any discussion).

Now i know some of youse guys love trades and some want to keep a kennel of adorable puppies and watch them mature into savage Dobermanns.

So Giannis, what's your offer or do you keep Rover, Spot, Buddy and Fido?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 06, 2020, 04:53:01 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on September 06, 2020, 04:11:32 PM
Chip-I'm assuming you're referiring to C-Raps, Game 5

I'm hoping the Celts don't C-Rap the bed but they now know for certain they're in a street fight. and they better fight back. 

And Kawhi is human but he's arguably an NBA top 3, and the Raps aren't as good without him. No team would be.

I didn't see the late game last night, needed something upbeat, so I watched Sophie's Choice, but saw he C-Rapped the game putting up Jalen Brown #s.

both are due for a bounce back.


Here's a question for you guys

you guys like re-shaping the knicks and this came up in another place I play.

Several posters had the Warriors and 76ers as possible landing spots for Giannis in a trade. And a few more teams came up.

Without rehashing the posts, I put forth the knicks have the pieces and apititude (I called it Dolan Desperation) to be serious players in pursuing the Hellenic Hero, and laid out a deal. (maybe I'll repost it later if this generates any discussion).

Now i know some of youse guys love trades and some want to keep a kennel of adorable puppies and watch them mature into savage Dobermanns.

So Giannis, what's your offer or do you keep Rover, Spot, Buddy and Fido?

Pointless. 

He ain't for sale.  Any more than all of that Marc Berman bullshit about tempting Donovan Mitchell with hires from the Jazz org, or Kentucky alumnus KAT or Devin Booker with Kenny Payne. 

At this point, VanVleet seems more realistic, and even THAT is quite a stretch.  Think he stays a Raptor.  They have a winning team culture. 

As for Kiid's Mitchell Robinson for Ball Bearings. Please. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 06, 2020, 05:18:07 PM
But bad shooting nights happen, what I didn't like was the seeming lack of intensity from the Cs. The fire to meet a challenge. Raps recaptured it on OGs 3, and the Cs seem to still be staggered by it.



More to it than that

Nurse switched up his zone

Listen to analysis once in a while - stop thinking you know it all.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 06, 2020, 05:20:07 PM

Several posters had the Warriors and 76ers as possible landing spots for Giannis in a trade. And a few more teams came up.

Without rehashing the posts, I put forth the knicks have the pieces and apititude (I called it Dolan Desperation) to be serious players in pursuing the Hellenic Hero, and laid out a deal. (maybe I'll repost it later if this generates any discussion)


Nah

Bucks cant/won't be dealing Giannis
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 06, 2020, 05:22:43 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 06, 2020, 04:53:01 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on September 06, 2020, 04:11:32 PM
Chip-I'm assuming you're referiring to C-Raps, Game 5

I'm hoping the Celts don't C-Rap the bed but they now know for certain they're in a street fight. and they better fight back. 

And Kawhi is human but he's arguably an NBA top 3, and the Raps aren't as good without him. No team would be.

I didn't see the late game last night, needed something upbeat, so I watched Sophie's Choice, but saw he C-Rapped the game putting up Jalen Brown #s.

both are due for a bounce back.


Here's a question for you guys

you guys like re-shaping the knicks and this came up in another place I play.

Several posters had the Warriors and 76ers as possible landing spots for Giannis in a trade. And a few more teams came up.

Without rehashing the posts, I put forth the knicks have the pieces and apititude (I called it Dolan Desperation) to be serious players in pursuing the Hellenic Hero, and laid out a deal. (maybe I'll repost it later if this generates any discussion).

Now i know some of youse guys love trades and some want to keep a kennel of adorable puppies and watch them mature into savage Dobermanns.

So Giannis, what's your offer or do you keep Rover, Spot, Buddy and Fido?

Pointless. 

He ain't for sale.  Any more than all of that Marc Berman bullshit about tempting Donovan Mitchell with hires from the Jazz org, or Kentucky alumnus KAT or Devin Booker with Kenny Payne. 

At this point, VanVleet seems more realistic, and even THAT is quite a stretch.  Think he stays a Raptor.  They have a winning team culture. 

As for Kiid's Mitchell Robinson for Ball Bearings. Please.

There seems to be a school of thought that GA will not resign a max deal with the Bucks and they could lose him to FA after next year, so they may listen to offers rather have him just walk, or limp away and get nothing.

If I'm Dolan I ask Perry for his thoughts and whether its something they should look into and if its only 10% likely to land a player like GA, why wouldn't you consider it and contingency plan for possibly acquiring the league MVP coming into his prime and build around him?

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 06, 2020, 05:29:29 PM
PLAY DONTE DOWN THE STRETCH!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 06, 2020, 05:31:43 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 06, 2020, 05:18:07 PM
But bad shooting nights happen, what I didn't like was the seeming lack of intensity from the Cs. The fire to meet a challenge. Raps recaptured it on OGs 3, and the Cs seem to still be staggered by it.



More to it than that

Nurse switched up his zone

Listen to analysis once in a while - stop thinking you know it all.

Kid I don't know it all, and i try to keep an open mind.

You should probably take your own advice moron. 

I mentioned the Celts trouble with the Raps zone.

Celts were still getting open looks, but shot 20% from 3 last night.

If they shot 33% (still under their average) they probably win the game.

and Nurse has been very good coming out of the half with adjustments, the Celts have been beaten in every 3rd quarter so far.

Quote from: bankshot1, post: 4026207, member: 9

I made a TIC comment at the half last night, that if the Celts had made some shots they'd be up by 10, so they could piss away a 10 pt. lead in the 3rd qtr.

There's some truth in that snarkiness.

The Raps have been taking over games after the half, and Nurse making D adjustments (switching into zone) and the Celts have consistently lost leads, and momentun in the 3rd qtr. .

There's a lot of shared responsibility in these losses, and Brad and staff own some too.





Brad got some work to do.


 
 



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 06, 2020, 07:36:49 PM
heh

So does Ainge

A bit of bad luck that Herro was snapped up last year prior to his pick

Needs to nail it this year
Title: heh
Post by: carlos123 on September 06, 2020, 09:10:17 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 06, 2020, 07:36:49 PM
heh

So does Ainge

A bit of bad luck that Herro was snapped up last year prior to his pick

Needs to nail it this year

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3c965Foek4SUczTp7H6FBjlaVBeiJrjIjiib0jCtBU3WgwAOYqDY1Og3C3KaKrv8sUAqvnYrJbdbBu0B18gQQ1arrzZueEiURfEQNBQY6d_ePaTy7uGBh2YXstlpcfrQ3Lc1MCWdnLDPTVM6hSzl8i6=w292-h548-no?authuser=0)

- No one will be is safe in Biden's Donald Pandemic's America  -

(Chamaco's siggy fixed)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 07, 2020, 10:52:02 AM
Looked at ESPn's draft profile for Knox:

UNder strengths:
Quote
- Tremendous touch on floaters -- 25-61.
- Tools to defend multiple positions in time.

I don't recall Knox using floaters for NYK(?)
The defensive thing is just a general projection based on his size/athleticism

Quote
Improvement areas
- Lacks a degree of physicality and toughness. Only 6.7 rebounds per 40 minutes. Is he tough enough to play the 4? Will disappear for long stretches. Confidence fluctuates. Shies away from contact in the paint as a finisher. Settles for perimeter jumpers. Sees himself as more of a wing than a modern forward.
- Plays with a high center of gravity. Handle is a bit loose. Not much of a shot-creator at this stage of his development. Feel for the game is average. Had 53 assists and 85 turnovers in 1,198 minutes at Kentucky. Doesn't make his teammates better.
- Struggled defensively at Kentucky. A bit tight in the hips. Can do a better job of sitting down and sliding on the perimeter. Not the defender his tools suggest. Up and down motor.

Most of this still rings true.
Low motor at times, confidence up and down, disappears.
I think the tight in the hips is also be related to his rim finishing.

Knox needs to be more aggressive, mix it up more, commit to D especially by paying attention off the ball.  he needs to mix up his O, 3's, drives, a floater if he's got it, and go strong to the rim.  He gets blocked a helluva lot as he looks to avoid contact and somehow manages to make himself smaller than his 6'9" frame.  Go up, go strong, make contact.  Punish people.  Watch some Jayson Tatum film.
Title: Heh Or Meh
Post by: chipstern on September 07, 2020, 04:17:13 PM
Jimmer Fredette announced via a social media video featuring his two kids that he will join the Shanghai Sharks for a second stint after his three-year run in China’s CBA between 2016 and 2019. – via EuroHoops.net

Jimmer Fredette 24 points vs. Knicks Full Highlights (2/12/14)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTc22SZs2Yw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTc22SZs2Yw)

Why The NBA Gave Up On Jimmer Fredette

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XTZR126HOo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XTZR126HOo)
Title: Re: Heh Or Meh
Post by: bodiddley on September 07, 2020, 06:24:33 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 07, 2020, 04:17:13 PM

Why The NBA Gave Up On Jimmer Fredette

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XTZR126HOo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XTZR126HOo)

That was a pretty crap video.  We see Jimmer playing terrific in various non-NBA settings.  The numbering didn't seem to make any sense.  The reasons were lame/unclear.  A bunch of nonsense really.

This vid on Jimmer's ups and downs is much better:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zm6ZKrfRZs

In Shanghai, Jimmer was a one man team.  It was kind of crazy his usage rate.  But he sure could score and in many ways. 
Title: Re: Heh Or Meh
Post by: chipstern on September 07, 2020, 08:21:49 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 07, 2020, 06:24:33 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 07, 2020, 04:17:13 PM

Why The NBA Gave Up On Jimmer Fredette

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XTZR126HOo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XTZR126HOo)

That was a pretty crap video.  We see Jimmer playing terrific in various non-NBA settings.  The numbering didn't seem to make any sense.  The reasons were lame/unclear.  A bunch of nonsense really.

This vid on Jimmer's ups and downs is much better:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zm6ZKrfRZs

In Shanghai, Jimmer was a one man team.  It was kind of crazy his usage rate.  But he sure could score and in many ways.

Agree

The video of him lighting up Woodson's Knicks is pretty fab, though. 

I think the inconsistent nature of his minutes entering the league stifled his growth in the NBA. 

I remember when my son in law and daughter were just emerging from San Diego State, Kawhi and jimmer had some pretty great encounters. 

PS: I've said this before and I'll say it again.  I thought the manner in which Kurt RamAss dissed Jimmer in the press, and refused to use him, hanbging him out to dry, was despicable.  I was at MSG for the one game he got in with Miras The Merciless, crowd was chanting for him, and he nailed his only shot, a long three. 

PPS: Did I say FUCK KURT RAMBIS?  Fuck him and Phool Jagoff.  Jimmer played well in Westchester, took his G League demotion/development like a man, and the Knicks fucked him over.  Not saying it was destiny, or that Kiid isn't delusional, but I've seen Jimmer in college and the pros when he was in his zone, and it was pretty cool.  Defense, and creating his own shot against bigger cats, surely did not work in his favor.  But hell, Isiah Thomas and other smaller guards have done okay.  The Kings were a bad match for him coming out of school. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 07, 2020, 09:12:11 PM
Carlos-I hoped the emotion and intensity would return, and D and discipline usually travels really well, and hoped it would lead to a win, but I did not expect a blow-out.

That first half D was dominating. I might have to watch it again. It was that good.
Title: Re: Celtics
Post by: carlos123 on September 07, 2020, 09:51:38 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on September 07, 2020, 09:12:11 PM
Carlos-I hoped the emotion and intensity would return, and D and discipline usually travels really well, and hoped it would lead to a win, but I did not expect a blow-out.

That first half D was dominating. I might have to watch it again. It was that good.

Man oh man, I didn't see the game, but just looked up the box score, You obliterated the Raps. What happened?

All five Celts. starters plus Wanamaker in double-figure +/-
All five Raps. starters plus Powell in negative double-figure +/-

Me and Chamaco say AMAZING!
(Ok, I don't know about Chamaco)
Title: Re: Celtics
Post by: bankshot1 on September 07, 2020, 10:23:54 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on September 07, 2020, 09:51:38 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on September 07, 2020, 09:12:11 PM
Carlos-I hoped the emotion and intensity would return, and D and discipline usually travels really well, and hoped it would lead to a win, but I did not expect a blow-out.

That first half D was dominating. I might have to watch it again. It was that good.

Man oh man, I didn't see the game, but just looked up the box score, You obliterated the Raps. What happened?

All five Celts. starters plus Wanamaker in double-figure +/-
All five Raps. starters plus Powell in negative double-figure +/-

Me and Chamaco say AMAZING!
(Ok, I don't know about Chamaco)

it was over in the the first half. The Celts were dominant both ends.

Short answer was the Celts gave up nothing easy and the Raps were missing 3s tonight (Celts weren't much better, about 33% -but a lot better than the 20% a couple of nights ago). BUT the transition game was great and led to a lot of good looks and easy hoops.

Celts answered

LOUDLY

Raps turn or...
Title: Re: Celts
Post by: carlos123 on September 07, 2020, 11:16:35 PM
What happened to the Raps. zone?
Title: Re: Celts
Post by: bankshot1 on September 08, 2020, 12:02:38 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on September 07, 2020, 11:16:35 PM
What happened to the Raps. zone?

its easier to set up off a made hoop, and they weren't making hoops.

They got beaten down the court in transition game.

And the Celts attacked the hoop

The Celts had the energy tonight.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 08, 2020, 01:55:37 AM
That’s one reason to like Vassell - his absolute foot speed and energy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 08, 2020, 10:58:02 AM
Jimmer Fredette announced via a social media video featuring his two kids that he will join the Shanghai Sharks for a second stint after his three-year run in China’s CBA between 2016 and 2019. – via EuroHoops.net



Excellent!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 08, 2020, 12:25:48 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 08, 2020, 10:58:02 AM
Jimmer Fredette announced via a social media video featuring his two kids that he will join the Shanghai Sharks for a second stint after his three-year run in China’s CBA between 2016 and 2019. – via EuroHoops.net

Excellent!

Well, he's got a fan base here, China pays the most outside the NBA, and I'm not even sure how many countries have their leagues up and running.  China had tow bubble sites in two different cities.  Not sure how it'll be for the new season here.  Probably the same.  Why bother with the hassle of travel unless they're going to allow fans. 

They could allow some limited capacity. But China has been careful and there's concern here that CV-19 could be seasonal and return this Winter in force, and that foreigners coming from other countries can bring the virus in.   Jimmer and other foreign players will likely have to quarantine for 2 weeks on arrival.
Title: PHANTASY ISLAND: Assuming OKC Is Committed To A Rebuild....
Post by: chipstern on September 08, 2020, 05:51:23 PM
"Make someone happy..."

Let's play pretend. 

I've seen a number of phantasmagorical trades involving us giving away our #8 pick this year and a host of players, and not necessarily Mills FA signings. 

Paul.  Conley.  Embid. 

K.  The Sixers are not trading Embid, and we have Mitchell.  Conley.  A good player, a very good player, in the last year of his contract. 

(https://images2.minutemediacdn.com/image/fetch/w_736,h_485,c_fill,g_auto,f_auto/https%3A%2F%2Fdailyknicks.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fgetty-images%2F2017%2F07%2F474531597-850x560.jpeg)

Chris Paul checks more boxes not simply for talent but for leadership and player development....and star power. 

Chip, you changing your mind? 

Mmmmm, yes and no...

Because I see a certain inevitability emerging about the Knicks making some sort of big splash, and bringing in a FA/Veteran Presence, someone to be Thibs' coach on the floor, who can play D, make others better, and stoke a culture. 

Do we have a culture in terms of talent to really take advantage of Paul's final two years? 

Mmmmmm, not really, but I see Rose wanting to re-boot, and give Thibs some tools to work with and to reboot the culture.   

Julius Randle
Wayne Ellington
Elfrid Peyton
Ignas Brazdeikis
Dallas 2023 #1

For Chris Paul

Okay, I'm meeting the Trader Vics on this Forum halfway. 

Paul has two more years to go at $41 and $44 Million. 

This trade saves OKC the final 44 million of Paul's contract in 2021-2022. 

All of the players they acquire can also all come off the cap in 2021-2022.  Randle gets an audition.  As do Iggy and Payton.  Ellington gives them a sniper to pair with Alexander. 

OKC has a shitload of #1 picks.  Enough to leverage a fresh new Free Agent to build around or get one in a trade. 

2020: Own pick, top-20 protected (goes to Philadelphia 76ers if it falls below 20th)
2020: Denver pick, top-10 protected
2021: Own pick
2021: Miami pick
2022: Own pick, top-10 protected (goes to Atlanta Hawks if it falls below 10th)
2022: Clippers pick
2023: Own pick, rights to swap with Clippers
2023: Heat pick, top-14 protected (goes to Thunder if it falls below 14th)
2024: Own pick
2024: Clippers pick
2024: Rockets pick, top-4 protected (goes to Thunder if it falls below 4th)
2025: Own pick, rights to swap with Clippers
2026: Own pick
2026: Clippers pick
2026: Rockets pick, top-4 protected (goes to Thunder if it falls below 4th)

I could easily see them shopping Paul, letting Gallo walk, even testing the waters for Schroeder [27] and Adams [27].  And be ready for free agency in 2021-2022. 

In any event, while Paul eats up oodles of cap space, as Thibs' top kick, he could see if Frank or Dennis have an upside before their 2021-2022 team option year. 

Not sure I see VanVleet leaving the Raptors. 

Now....the Knicks might make a serious run at Stretch Four Davis Bertans from the Wiz.  He could surely cost, and the Wiz are going to do their level best to re-up him.  Might be cheaper to keep Portis for one more season.  He is three years younger.  A better match at the 4-spot and as an occasional 5 than Randle with Robinson.  His defense notwithstanding. Shot .403% with more minutes for the Wiz the year before this.  Much better rebounder than Bertans, thought Bertans is clearly a better sniper    And it might be time to check Knox out at the 4, particularly with RJ and Bullock breathing down his neck at the 3, where issues as to his motor and quickness might be less of an issue in matchups. 

Who the Knicks draft at #8 could trigger everything including a run at Paul. 

If Hayes or Haliburton drop do they roll the dice?  Do they have as much upside as the unattainable Ball? 

In any event, time on my hand, not dying, so something to shake up the Forum.

Because at present, while I am quite keen on the people Rose has brought on board in terms of the front office and coaching staff, hard to see what direction the team takes in terms of pups and/or vets or some combo therein. 

I kind of doubt Rose wants the Knicks to suck on the level they have the past two years, and how, if at all, it might be feasible to make a run at the #8 playoff spot. 

(https://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2552805/TOMragin_medium.gif)

We shall see. 

(https://media.tenor.com/images/94a3b0468096d799ea92b9787867518d/tenor.gif)

Welcome To Phantasy Island






Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 08, 2020, 06:43:59 PM
I thing getting someone with the upside of Knox would be necessary for Thunder, in addition to the one pick and cap relief post '20-'21.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 08, 2020, 08:33:58 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on September 08, 2020, 06:43:59 PM
I thing getting someone with the upside of Knox would be necessary for Thunder, in addition to the one pick and cap relief post '20-'21.

Agree. 

Thought I'd see if I could get them to bite on Iggy. 

I would like to give Knox some time with Coach Payne. 
Title: Speaking Of Kentucky In The House
Post by: chipstern on September 08, 2020, 08:54:54 PM
Miami nabbed Bam and Herro both with #14 picks.

Tyler is a MF. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 08, 2020, 09:38:35 PM
Celts either couldnt or just didnt deal up 2 spots to get Herro.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 08, 2020, 11:17:37 PM
I saw MIA 3x in the bubble and I was really impressed how poised and confident Herro was.

LeBJ played some terrific D in the 3Q.
AD on the O-boards.
Rustbrook missed shots from all over 3Q
LBJ sure complains a lot -- don't they ever drop a T on him, or even warn him?
He had one crybaby play where he stayed under his basket whining while HOU had 5-on-4.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on September 08, 2020, 11:24:29 PM
Harden cries far more than James.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on September 08, 2020, 11:27:38 PM
#20 renaldo balkman #21 rajon rondo
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 08, 2020, 11:35:14 PM
Jeff Green makes 3 straight mistakes mid-4Q.  Never trust that guy.
Rustbrook awful 2nd half.
HOU hasn't been able to take advantage of Lake double-teams.
Lotta useless passes.

Playoff Rondo!

Edit: 2 more Green mistakes around the 3 min mark.  Blown layup and gives an O-board and putback to Kuzma
Title: Confessions of a die easy NBA fan in 2020
Post by: Kam on September 09, 2020, 01:05:05 AM
Looking forward to the Conference Finals

LA vs LA
MIA vs BOS

I might actually tune in and watch. 
So far i've found myself -- like so many others -- just not that into Pro Sports these days.
Of the series so far I was most into the Den-Utah and Hou-OKC matchups.  Watched some of those games. 
I'd say my viewership of these playoffs is around 15%

(I didn't even realize that the NFL was set to begin this weekend and I haven't watched one pitch of MLB 2020 yet)

Not because of anything the NBA is doing wrong .... just because it doesn't feel authentic. 
I've watched here and there but it just hasn't pulled me in.  I think that's the reason for the ratings decline. 
Nothing to do with politics.  No fault of the NBA.... just not the must-watch it has been for me.

I hope the conf. finals (especially out West) will be different and get me back into it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on September 09, 2020, 07:37:06 AM
I get it, but to me, it's been just what I needed.

I thought it would seem unnatural, summertime, empty arena in a theme park, corporate social good slogans.

Instead, I've really enjoyed it — and the game has never seemed so connected to the world. The sheer intelligence of the bubble a 4x a day refutation to the idiocy of the Trump arena death rallies. The unprecedented wakeup of the playoff boycott. The struggles of the players handling lockup mentally & emotionally.

The absence of our own crew hasn't mattered one whit as I've thrilled to the bubble Suns, the Doncic machine, OKC, Donovan v. Murray, and now a guy defying Father Time like no other since... (anyone?). The 150 point games did threaten to put me off, but as expected, in the playoffs, defense has returned.

But I totally get that it might not click for many right now, for you, especially without our pathetic-but-magnetic MSG heroes.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 09, 2020, 09:15:34 AM
Defying Father Time.

Hmmmm....

Could it be my guy DWIGHT?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on September 09, 2020, 10:20:36 AM
I honestly can't say. Can't think of anybody who has been so resolutely the man at this stage in his career.

Kareem comes to mind. A Finals MVP at what? Age 37? Even so, it was well Magic's show by then....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 09, 2020, 10:27:29 AM
Quote
Playoff Rondo!

he had a game last night.

Fun game but like in G2 Lakers dominated in the 4th qtr
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on September 09, 2020, 10:31:27 AM
I've been watching the Laker series with half-an-eye and the sound down.  Is Howard hurt?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on September 09, 2020, 12:20:29 PM
nope, Vogel's just gone small
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 09, 2020, 12:34:21 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on September 08, 2020, 11:27:38 PM
#20 renaldo balkman #21 rajon rondo

yes...Yes....YES

NO

To Be A Knicks Fan Is To Suffer

PS: Lakers do not beat Rockets without Rondo.  Genius PG. 
Title: Re: Confessions of a die easy NBA fan in 2020
Post by: Echo5 on September 09, 2020, 12:43:25 PM
Quote from: Kam on September 09, 2020, 01:05:05 AM

(I didn't even realize that the NFL was set to begin this weekend and I haven't watched one pitch of MLB 2020 yet)

I was going to watch MLB, but I ended up watching the Red Sox, instead. (Even if they don't have the worst winning percentage at the moment.)
Title: Go HEAT
Post by: chipstern on September 09, 2020, 01:03:51 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 08, 2020, 09:38:35 PM
Celts either couldnt or just didnt deal up 2 spots to get Herro.

Conjecture

One spot. 

Could have taken OKC/Alexander PG's cousin Nickeil Alexander-Walker [taken with #17 by the Nyets, ended up with the Pelicans], but selected Romeo Langford with the 14th pick. 

As many draft picks as Pat Riley traded away, he surely made the #1 picks (and otherwise) he did have count like a motherfucker.  Not only that, but they effectively develop their picks....

Bam Adebayo [#14, 2017]

Tyler Herro [#13, 2019]

Kendrick Nunn [An undrafted free agent I believe]

Duncan Robinson [An undrafted free agent I believe]

All productive, all play D, all move well without the ball, all can drain the three. 

Again, referencing Pat Riley gifts....

Former #1 pick Winslow produced Jae Crowder, Solomon Hill and Andre Iguodala, all 6'6" wings, all critical defensive pieces in their playoffs ascension.  Crowder sure draining a lot of threes. 

And when Ainge was peeling off salaries to sign Kyrie Irving, Riley pounced on Kelly Olynik.  Draining a lot of threes. 

I mean, I don't have a dog in this playoff hunt, but I will confess to pulling for the Heat and the Celtics, as I like the way they play.  Like the Raptors as well, love Kyle Lowry. 

If the EC Finals come down to Heat-Celtics?

GO HEAT.  That's how I would like to see our Knicks configured and developed, moving forward. 


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 09, 2020, 01:28:00 PM
Two picks.  Miami wasn't giving the pick up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 09, 2020, 01:42:04 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on September 09, 2020, 01:28:00 PM
Two picks.  Miami wasn't giving the pick up.

IIRC it was reported there were 4 or 5 guys Ainge liked at #14, including Herro, Washington and Langford. So he might have been indifferent when Langford was there at 14.

Herro has been great.

School's still out on Romeo.
IIRC2 there was speculation he would try to move up to around 5 to get Garland for PG.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 09, 2020, 01:49:14 PM
No telling as well how high CHA was on PJ.  Would the 14 plus an added pick have gotten Bo's to 12?

Mistake was if he didn't try.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 09, 2020, 01:55:16 PM
Since also traded himself out of Mattias Thybulle and Brandon Clarke - likely since he craved some of prospects.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 09, 2020, 01:56:35 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on September 09, 2020, 01:49:14 PM
No telling as well how high CHA was on PJ.  Would the 14 plus an added pick have gotten Bo's to 12?

Mistake was if he didn't try.

How do you know he didn't try?

But rather he thought the ask was too high to move up two spots if he was generally indifferent to several players at 14?

The move I didn't get that year was the trade at 20 to Philly for 2nd rounders.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 09, 2020, 02:20:45 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on September 09, 2020, 01:56:35 PM


But rather he thought the ask was too high to move up two spots if he was generally indifferent to several players at 14?


All reports are Ainge was rightfully enamored of Herro
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 09, 2020, 02:22:39 PM
Wasn't second rounders for the 20 - which as I said could have been Thybulle or Clarke.

Was 24 and 33 - where Danny got his PG prospect Edwards and eventually a 2020 Bucks first rounder.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 09, 2020, 02:55:04 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on September 09, 2020, 02:22:39 PM
Wasn't second rounders for the 20 - which as I said could have been Thybulle or Clarke.

Was 24 and 33 - where Danny got his PG prospect Edwards and eventually a 2020 Bucks first rounder.

It was convoluted as hell-they traded the 20 and they got Edwards and Waters last year in the 2nd round, after that I lost track.



Title: Phool On The Hill
Post by: chipstern on September 09, 2020, 03:58:02 PM
Much as it pains me to give Jackson any props, his sense of Porzingis' susceptibility to injury was not entirely unfounded, though his motivations in terms of a trade, were equal parts good and evil. 

In Porzingis’s case, do you know how many players 7-3 or taller have played 1,000 NBA games? Freaking zero of them, that’s how many. Even off-the-charts talents like Yao and Sampson have seen the curtain close early on their careers due to lower extremity injuries. Mark Eaton is the world record holder in this class at 875 games; his longevity trick was to never, ever jump, even while leading the league in blocked shots. – via John Hollinger @ The Athletic
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 09, 2020, 05:21:31 PM
I bet if Kareem was one inch taller he would have broken down and played much less than 1500 games.

Who cares about 1000 games.  That's a 14 year career. 
700 games is a solid 10 year career.

And most (all?) of the players 7'3" or taller were not nearly as skilled as KZ.
Title: KP
Post by: carlos123 on September 09, 2020, 09:01:59 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 09, 2020, 05:21:31 PM
I bet if Kareem was one inch taller he would have broken down and played much less than 1500 games.

Wow! Chip, that hurts!

Quote
And most (all?) of the players 7'3" or taller were not nearly as skilled as KZ.

Also,
"KP tosses salads in dallas" - Kam
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 09, 2020, 09:06:04 PM
KP needs to watch tape of late stage Rick Smits from the Indy playoff runs and adjust his game accordingly.
Title: DOGFIGHT
Post by: carlos123 on September 09, 2020, 09:09:09 PM
Raps.-Celts., what a dogfight! 98-98 and OT.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 09, 2020, 09:15:24 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 09, 2020, 05:21:31 PM
I bet if Kareem was one inch taller he would have broken down and played much less than 1500 games.

Who cares about 1000 games.  That's a 14 year career. 
700 games is a solid 10 year career.

And most (all?) of the players 7'3" or taller were not nearly as skilled as KZ.

Sabonis was better

Played nine foreign seasons, then 470 games here
Title: Re: DOGFIGHT
Post by: bankshot1 on September 09, 2020, 09:57:40 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on September 09, 2020, 09:09:09 PM
Raps.-Celts., what a dogfight! 98-98 and OT.

that was a helluva fucking game.

like a heaavyweight title fight

Raps couldn't miss in 2OT

Celts did.

Game 7 will be hard to top it.
Title: Re: KP
Post by: Kam on September 09, 2020, 10:17:49 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on September 09, 2020, 09:01:59 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 09, 2020, 05:21:31 PM
I bet if Kareem was one inch taller he would have broken down and played much less than 1500 games.

Wow! Chip, that hurts!

Quote
And most (all?) of the players 7'3" or taller were not nearly as skilled as KZ.

Also,
"KP tosses salads in dallas" - Kam

Hmmm.   That's been there since he forced his way out.  Might need updating.
Title: Re: KP
Post by: carlos123 on September 09, 2020, 11:15:48 PM
Quote from: Kam on September 09, 2020, 10:17:49 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on September 09, 2020, 09:01:59 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 09, 2020, 05:21:31 PM
I bet if Kareem was one inch taller he would have broken down and played much less than 1500 games.

Wow! Chip, that hurts!

Quote
And most (all?) of the players 7'3" or taller were not nearly as skilled as KZ.

Also,
"KP tosses salads in dallas" - Kam

Hmmm.   That's been there since he forced his way out.  Might need updating.

Oh no, please NOOOOOOO!
I like the salads in Dallas 🥗
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 09, 2020, 11:50:41 PM
If KZ were one inch shorter no one would have to worry about his health.
It's a dumb argument, based on a small sample which doesn't match KZ much at all.

Guys like Big Z and Yao had foot problems due to their immense weight (with the running/jumping).  Not similar to KZ.

Sean Bradley 832 games at 7'6".  But also not a KZ type or game.
Title: KP-2
Post by: carlos123 on September 10, 2020, 12:07:05 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 09, 2020, 11:50:41 PM
If KZ were one inch shorter no one would have to worry about his health.
It's a dumb argument, based on a small sample which doesn't match KZ much at all.

Guys like Big Z and Yao had foot problems due to their immense weight (with the running/jumping).  Not similar to KZ.

Sean Bradley 832 games at 7'6".  But also not a KZ type or game.

BoZ, you made your argument before and Chip is thoroughly devastated and humiliated already.
Be a good boy and just let it go.

PS. Phool J. still a fool.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 10, 2020, 12:45:32 AM
Far be it from me to get involved in an intraforum squabble about big men's health issues, but from my recall big men and the stress they put on the legs-kness-ankles-feet is pretty well documented.

From Russell's arthtitic knees to Walton to McHale, to Ralph Sampson, Oden, Yao Ming, Andrew Bynum more recently Embiid the stress these guys place on relatively fragile joints, tendons and bones from the pounding they give them seems something to be aware of and not so quickly dismissed. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 10, 2020, 01:38:53 AM
Agree.
A lot of Bigs bodies can't handle the stress/abuse/grind.
I just don't think the 7'3" cutoff is especially relevant.
It's Hollinger's argument.  Chip just linked it up.

KZ should probably limit his drives to stay healthy.
Gallo had the same issue (at 6'10").
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 10, 2020, 09:54:33 AM
Chris Paul to BUCKS gains some steam

Paul is still one of the NBA’s better defenders at point guard, which means the Bucks could feel comfortable with him replacing Bledsoe on that end. Putting the salaries together to acquire Paul wouldn’t be much of a challenge. Bledsoe, Hill, DiVincenzo, and D.J. Wilson would work. The trouble is that Oklahoma City likely prefers not to take on long-term salary, so a third team could be required. The Bucks would likely face competition in any pursuit of Paul. League sources say the Sixers front office has seriously debated the idea of chasing CP3. The Knicks, in desperate need of a player to lure prospective free agents, could also make a run at him after his former agent, Leon Rose, took over as team president. But there likely won’t be a lot of suitors for Paul. Not many teams need a point guard, nevermind an old one with an injury history making $41.4 million in 2020-21 with a player option to make $44.2 million in 2021-22. Paul proved this season he’s still a damn good player, but that doesn’t mean many teams want him.




https://www.theringer.com/nba/2020/9/9/21429212/giannis-antetokounmpo-milwaukee-bucks-free-agency
Title: Knicks Bubble
Post by: chipstern on September 10, 2020, 04:30:39 PM
Thibs chairs individual bubble workouts beginning Monday September 14, team workouts the following Monday for two weeks. 

NBA Draft postponed until November. 

Season not slated to begin until XMAS [the earliest]. 
Title: Another dogfight
Post by: carlos123 on September 11, 2020, 10:21:31 PM
Hard to top this Raps-Celts series.
Dogfight to the end, wow!!!
Too bad it has to end today.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 11, 2020, 11:08:46 PM
3Q -- I like how Raps are doubling and leaving open Wanamaker and Ojelaye.

TOR announcers are huge homers, but at least detail oriented about plays and strategy.
Seems the commercials in Canada are a bit more arty and intelligent than US ads.
 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 11, 2020, 11:17:03 PM
TOR should attack Kemba's defense.
Title: Jayson Tatum
Post by: chipstern on September 11, 2020, 11:48:20 PM
Big time rebound. 
Title: Hey Bank
Post by: carlos123 on September 11, 2020, 11:51:01 PM
Hey, congratulations Bank!
Wish we had a team to root for in NY.

PS. Tatum is a fucking monster!
Even Chamaco Cartero agrees with that.
Well, ok, not sure about this last part.
Title: Re: Hey Bank
Post by: bankshot1 on September 12, 2020, 12:12:04 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on September 11, 2020, 11:51:01 PM
Hey, congratulations Bank!
Wish we had a team to root for in NY.

PS. Tatum is a fucking monster!
Even Chamaco Cartero agrees with that.
Well, ok, not sure about this last part.

Thanks Carlos-Tatum had a monster game and a great series, but the soul of the Celts is Marcus Smart.

I've been telling you guys for awhile he's a niddle-lineback playing hoops.

His intangibles are hard to calculate but he makes so many winning plays.

He's an acquired taste but I love him as a player.

just a winner

If you got no one to root for for the next hopefully 3-4 weeks, I can get you a pass for the Celts bandwagon-always looking for good basketball fans

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 12, 2020, 02:00:58 AM
From a discussion on Ainge and Riley hating each other for decades (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29847095/nba-playoffs-why-next-chapter-heat-celtics-let-us-down):

Quote
They hated each other in the 1990s, when Ainge was playing for the Phoenix Suns and Riley was coaching the New York Knicks and they both were involved in a brawl. Ainge and Riley ended up on the deck, Riley ripping his pants. It led to a record 21 players getting fined or suspended.

I went to the vid (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAtFyenKG9k) and oddly enough it's a pair of confrontations between Doc Rivers and Kevin Johnson that ignites things.   After initial jawing and annoyance, on the next play KJ cheap shots Doc, who goes after him.  Competitive guys, but also both known as classy and even tempered. 

Riley ends up down on the court.  The MSG camerawork isn't good and misses much of what goes on, and not that much goes on, except for Greg Anthony in street clothes punching a held KJ (MSG misses it, so it's like radio and were told about it).  Knix had Oak and Mason, guys you don't want to mess with.  But this was a Knick guard affair with Doc, Starks and Greg Anthony (injured/not playing) all getting ejected.

You can see why the NBA implemented the No Leaving the Bench rule, to limit brawl participation.  But later over-enforcement of that really screwed the Nash Suns.
Title: Re: Jayson Tatum
Post by: Kam on September 12, 2020, 08:45:22 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 11, 2020, 11:48:20 PM
Big time rebound.

Norm Powell should've blocked out.
It was also Powell who got his layup blocked my smart on the play before.  Gotta dunk that.
Poor Powell.  He can't be feeling good.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 12, 2020, 08:47:36 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 12, 2020, 02:00:58 AM


You can see why the NBA implemented the No Leaving the Bench rule, to limit brawl participation.  But later over-enforcement of that really screwed the Nash Suns.

It screwed the Knicks before that.  PJ Brown bodyslams Charlie Ward.  Ewing steps over the line. David Stern gives series to the HEAT the Knicks had in hand.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 12, 2020, 08:51:47 PM
The NBA gets too rule-bound and caught up in literal interps of rules.

You can see that these days in silly breakaway foul calls (2 FT's and the ball), where there's nothing dangerous, or the ballhandler is half a step ahead etc.
Title: Thank you
Post by: carlos123 on September 12, 2020, 09:30:37 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on September 12, 2020, 12:12:04 AM

If you got no one to root for for the next hopefully 3-4 weeks, I can get you a pass for the Celts bandwagon-always looking for good basketball fans

Thank you Bank, I appreciate it, but I get just enough Celtics here. See, I like you, and I wish we had a team like yours, but at the end of the day the Celts are still one of the enemies.
Title: Re: Thank you
Post by: bankshot1 on September 12, 2020, 09:48:44 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on September 12, 2020, 09:30:37 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on September 12, 2020, 12:12:04 AM

If you got no one to root for for the next hopefully 3-4 weeks, I can get you a pass for the Celts bandwagon-always looking for good basketball fans

Thank you Bank, I appreciate it, but I get just enough Celtics here. See, I like you, and I wish we had a team like yours, but at the end of the day the Celts are still one of the enemies.

I get it Carlos. As a Brian Wilson once said, "let your colors fly and be true to your school"
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 13, 2020, 02:30:34 AM
Best I can do is remember when I traded Melo for Jaylen and Rozier (when both of them were on the bench, before Celts went all in for Hayward).
Title: The Celtics just did something no team in NBA history has ever done.
Post by: Kam on September 13, 2020, 03:12:15 AM
The Celtics just did something no team in NBA history has ever done...

They beat a team coached by Nick Nurse.

The Raptors were also undefeated in the bubble against every team but the Celtics.


For the first time ever the Easter Conference Finals will not feature a #1 or a #2 seed.


If LeBron was a franchise he would be 10th all time in playoff wins.
Title: Re: Thank you
Post by: carlos123 on September 13, 2020, 09:38:13 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on September 12, 2020, 09:48:44 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on September 12, 2020, 09:30:37 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on September 12, 2020, 12:12:04 AM

If you got no one to root for for the next hopefully 3-4 weeks, I can get you a pass for the Celts bandwagon-always looking for good basketball fans

Thank you Bank, I appreciate it, but I get just enough Celtics here. See, I like you, and I wish we had a team like yours, but at the end of the day the Celts are still one of the enemies.

I get it Carlos. As a Brian Wilson once said, "let your colors fly and be true to your school"

FWIW, I’ll root for you against Riley.
Title: WTF
Post by: carlos123 on September 13, 2020, 03:46:02 PM
What happened to the Clippers in the second half?

I thought they had the game at the half and switched to watching baseball. Can never tell!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 13, 2020, 04:09:29 PM
They started fouling a ton 3Q.
They were lucky Nugs were missing FT's
(I cringed when down 16, Milsap missed a pair; then next poss, Jokic missed the 1st FT).

PaulGeorge started missing and taking questionable shots.
With Zubac out, LAC D died.  PA Bev fouled out.
Only LouWill looked confident and willing to shoot.
Shamet a total nonentity; finally got replaced by RegJax.

Gary Harris played with a lot of energy and got steals and mad hustle plays, really helped turn things around 3Q.  4Q, Murray made his midrangers; Kawhi missed his.
CLips got stagnant.

Clips killed Nugs on the boards to get a big lead 2Q.
Then 2nd half, DEN controlled the boards and hustled up extra possessions with o-boards and steals.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 13, 2020, 04:44:04 PM
Malone is a hell of a coach. Game 7 should be fun.

D’Antoni and Houston part ways.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 13, 2020, 04:57:27 PM
Along with Shamet, Morris was also a no-show.  And he joined in on the 3Q foulathon.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 13, 2020, 04:58:29 PM
Holy smokes - DENVER.


Porter a +12

Good to see them sharing the rock today


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 13, 2020, 04:59:06 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 13, 2020, 04:44:04 PM
Malone is a hell of a coach. Game 7 should be fun.

D’Antoni and Houston part ways.

D'antoni resigned before he could be fired.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 13, 2020, 04:59:56 PM
Denver likes being down 3-1
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 13, 2020, 05:00:44 PM
D'Ant wont be out long....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 13, 2020, 08:43:19 PM
Quote from: Kam on September 13, 2020, 04:59:06 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 13, 2020, 04:44:04 PM
Malone is a hell of a coach. Game 7 should be fun.

D’Antoni and Houston part ways.

D'antoni resigned before he could be fired.


Actually, his pact had expired. 

So he was a free agent in any event. 

Also, what is the over-under on the Rockets' owner tearing it all down? 



Title: Rockets
Post by: carlos123 on September 13, 2020, 10:24:38 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 13, 2020, 08:43:19 PM
Quote from: Kam on September 13, 2020, 04:59:06 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 13, 2020, 04:44:04 PM
Malone is a hell of a coach. Game 7 should be fun.

D’Antoni and Houston part ways.

D'antoni resigned before he could be fired.


Actually, his pact had expired. 

So he was a free agent in any event. 

Also, what is the over-under on the Rockets' owner tearing it all down?

Maybe they’ll hire Fizdale to fizz things up? 🤡

(https://cdn.elitesportsny.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/david-fizdale-press-conference-1-e1534984213517-681x383.jpg)
🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 14, 2020, 08:14:32 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 13, 2020, 04:58:29 PM
Porter a +12
Good to see them sharing the rock today
Porter has confidence and can pop is 3's.  Also nice cutting and pretty good boarding (though goes soft occasionally too).  He has offense.

Besides his highly suspect D, Porter also makes some godawful passes especially when on the move.  He's listed with 2 turns last game, but really had a 3rd since he threw a cross-court pass at a Clipper who bobbled it and then a scramble went on which ended in a Nuggy 24 sec violation.  He also had another pair of weak passes that barely connected.  You almost wonder if he was passing with his off hand for whatever reason on some of those.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 14, 2020, 08:48:41 AM
Quote from: Kam on September 12, 2020, 08:47:36 PM
It screwed the Knicks before that.  PJ Brown bodyslams Charlie Ward.  Ewing steps over the line. David Stern gives series to the HEAT the Knicks had in hand.

Funny, PJ & Chollie -- also two nice guys who surprisingly got into it.

The NBA tends to get too rule-bound and enforces its rules too literally.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 14, 2020, 09:54:32 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 14, 2020, 08:14:32 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 13, 2020, 04:58:29 PM
Porter a +12
Good to see them sharing the rock today
Porter has confidence and can pop is 3's.  Also nice cutting and pretty good boarding (though goes soft occasionally too).  He has offense.

Besides his highly suspect D, Porter also makes some godawful passes especially when on the move.  He's listed with 2 turns last game, but really had a 3rd since he threw a cross-court pass at a Clipper who bobbled it and then a scramble went on which ended in a Nuggy 24 sec violation.  He also had another pair of weak passes that barely connected.  You almost wonder if he was passing with his off hand for whatever reason on some of those.

If you have been watching, a GUMMING of Zubac at the rim is just one of MPJ's athletic exploits this series.

There really has been no indication - as he mostly guards Marcus Sr - that Porter is a major defensive minus.

Clearly yet ANOTHER Knicks draft miscue.


https://ftw.usatoday.com/2020/09/nba-twitter-was-roasting-michael-porter-jr-until-he-made-three-game-changing-plays
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 14, 2020, 10:08:37 AM
Utah went at Porter (and Jokic) a ton for profit.
Guys just blew past him.  Porter also poor as a rotating Big.
Porter has gotten burned at times in this series, but Morris needs to step up.

Thus far, Porter, both Bridges and Shai all look significantly better than Knox.
But Knix were not going to wait two years for a guy with injuries and hope his health held up.  Everyone knew Porter had talent -- as in Top 3 talent.  But his back was a huge red flag.  Shai was rising late to push his way into our range.  Both Bridges look solid.  I like Mikal for PHX, but haven't seen the other Bridges much for CHA.

Unfortunate when out of the 5 guys you should be considering that you choose the 5th best.  Knox still young.  Should play the way Porter does on O. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 14, 2020, 11:19:12 AM
Nice playoff PER of 15.9 for Porter.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 14, 2020, 12:33:08 PM
Offensive measure
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: josh on September 14, 2020, 12:50:58 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 14, 2020, 12:33:08 PM
Offensive measure

I found it quite insulting that Kid would even post it!
Title: Training Camp
Post by: Kam on September 14, 2020, 01:05:47 PM
Knicks resumed training today.  Although limited to individual drills until the start of next week.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 14, 2020, 01:59:10 PM
“Mortimer, we’re back in business!”
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 14, 2020, 02:26:48 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 14, 2020, 08:48:41 AM
Quote from: Kam on September 12, 2020, 08:47:36 PM
It screwed the Knicks before that.  PJ Brown bodyslams Charlie Ward.  Ewing steps over the line. David Stern gives series to the HEAT the Knicks had in hand.

Funny, PJ & Chollie -- also two nice guys who surprisingly got into it.

The NBA tends to get too rule-bound and enforces its rules too literally.

Even good guys can have moments of unclarity

See Mark and the broom
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 14, 2020, 03:55:35 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 14, 2020, 01:59:10 PM
“Mortimer, we’re back in business!”

Thirteen bodies in the basement. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on September 14, 2020, 04:06:36 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 14, 2020, 02:26:48 PM


Even good guys can have moments of unclarity


(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2020/07/30/20/30324628-8576921-Herman_Cain_died_of_COVID_19_He_attended_President_Trump_s_June_-a-2_1596138389081.jpg)


***oh wait, he wasn't a good guy, lol, but who cares, it's such a fun pic!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 14, 2020, 04:49:58 PM
Quote from: josh on September 14, 2020, 12:50:58 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 14, 2020, 12:33:08 PM
Offensive measure

I found it quite insulting that Kid would even post it!

From Silver Singles

To

A

Silver Siting

All HAIL
Title: Don't Cry For Me Argentina
Post by: chipstern on September 14, 2020, 05:05:26 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 14, 2020, 02:26:48 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 14, 2020, 08:48:41 AM
Quote from: Kam on September 12, 2020, 08:47:36 PM
It screwed the Knicks before that.  PJ Brown bodyslams Charlie Ward.  Ewing steps over the line. David Stern gives series to the HEAT the Knicks had in hand.

Funny, PJ & Chollie -- also two nice guys who surprisingly got into it.

The NBA tends to get too rule-bound and enforces its rules too literally.

Even good guys can have moments of unclarity

See Mark and the broom

Funny you should recall that dubious moment. 

Jackson always had a keen point guard aptitude, that made up for his physical limitations, a fierce competitive spirit, and a first rate basketball mind. 

But when everyone was lamenting the Steve Nash hiring, and going on about MJ being blackballed, so to speak, I recalled his inability to get along with his own assistant coaches or management, his high minded sanctimony (balanced out by his camel toe dalliances with a stripper) and that playoff triumph, under Pitino as I recall, where Jackson led the Knicks in rubbing their opponents face in defeat by literally bringing out the brooms. 

That left a bad taste in my mouth.  Trash talking is one thing, but that was a telling insight into his mindset.  On one hand, it lent itself to his competitive edge, which we saw first hand when he came back to the Garden and often kicked our asses with the Pacers.

But it is also indicative of those emotional ticks which would seem to make teams hesitant to hunker down with him.

Hey, Thibs is a very, VERY STRONG WILLED individual, and I think his willingness to meet Leon Rose halfway when it came to filling out his staff with the Kenny Payne and Johnny Bryant appointments is telling.

Hey, Nyets did likewise with Nash, insisting on Jacques Vaughan.  There is even a rumor, kind of a stretch on thinks, of bringing on JVG as an additional associate head coach.  I think Nash will be just fine in Brooklyn. 

Anyway, Mark Jackson has a sweet broadcasting gig, so don't cry for me Argentina. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: josh on September 14, 2020, 06:11:34 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 14, 2020, 03:55:35 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 14, 2020, 01:59:10 PM
“Mortimer, we’re back in business!”

Thirteen bodies in the basement.

Oh, is that what they mean when they say a bet is "a lock?"
Title: Arsenic & Old Lace
Post by: chipstern on September 14, 2020, 07:03:10 PM
Quote from: josh on September 14, 2020, 06:11:34 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 14, 2020, 03:55:35 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 14, 2020, 01:59:10 PM
“Mortimer, we’re back in business!”

Thirteen TWELVE bodies in the basement.

Oh, is that what they mean when they say a bet is "a lock?"

I was actually riffing with your "Mortimer" reference, Cary Grant's character Mortimer Brewster in ARSENIC AND OLD LACE, who discovered that his spinster aunts and his brother are homicidal maniacs. 

"They got twelve, and you got twelve."

THIRTEEN.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDLvzvFFRu8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDLvzvFFRu8)
THE CELLAR'S CROWDED ALREADY

"No, Johnny...."

Title: Re: Arsenic & Old Lace
Post by: josh on September 14, 2020, 07:38:40 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 14, 2020, 07:03:10 PM
Quote from: josh on September 14, 2020, 06:11:34 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 14, 2020, 03:55:35 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 14, 2020, 01:59:10 PM
“Mortimer, we’re back in business!”

Thirteen TWELVE bodies in the basement.

Oh, is that what they mean when they say a bet is "a lock?"

I was actually riffing with your "Mortimer" reference, Cary Grant's character Mortimer Brewster in ARSENIC AND OLD LACE, who discovered that his spinster aunts and his brother are homicidal maniacs. 

"They got twelve, and you got twelve."

THIRTEEN.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDLvzvFFRu8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDLvzvFFRu8)
THE CELLAR'S CROWDED ALREADY

"No, Johnny...."

His Mortimer reference, not mine.

And I was following that riff, Chip!

They got their son, Teddy, to bury them in the basement, telling him it was time to dig another lock for the Panama Canal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 15, 2020, 12:37:16 AM
I goofed. I added business which wasn’t there.

I was trying to quote Randolph to his brother from the end of Coming to America.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 15, 2020, 12:38:48 AM
http://youtu.be/ge03rjwOE0A (http://youtu.be/ge03rjwOE0A)

http://youtu.be/oRMXO1iIY-M (http://youtu.be/oRMXO1iIY-M)

Carlos, your Spanish seems better than mine. What do you think of these ads?
Title: Tío Joe
Post by: carlos123 on September 15, 2020, 01:05:56 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 15, 2020, 12:38:48 AM
http://youtu.be/ge03rjwOE0A (http://youtu.be/ge03rjwOE0A)

http://youtu.be/oRMXO1iIY-M (http://youtu.be/oRMXO1iIY-M)

Carlos, your Spanish seems better than mine. What do you think of these ads?

Buena ranchera/norteña y buen reggaetón. I wonder if it would break any law if they made the “I’m Joe Biden and I approve this message” in Spanish. That would be really cool. Or they could do it and then fade to the English version if necessary. Even Chamaco Cartero would appreciate it.

Also, it would be nice if Tío Joe put out an ad talking about us and how he’s going to work with/for us, in addition to the ads mocking Trump, which are very good but we need the other half of it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: josh on September 15, 2020, 03:33:19 AM
Is this one better, Carlos?

It seemed better to me, but my Spanish is worse than my French and my French is nearly non-existent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYMx-3ogn3Q
Title: Re: Tío Joe
Post by: bodiddley on September 15, 2020, 05:07:28 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on September 15, 2020, 01:05:56 AM
I wonder if it would break any law if they made the “I’m Joe Biden and I approve this message” in Spanish. That would be really cool. Or they could do it and then fade to the English version if necessary.

Yeah, I would do it in both languages (or just in Espanol if allowed ... probably not).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 15, 2020, 08:30:18 AM
Trump had a huge day with Hispanics yesterday.
Title: Ads
Post by: carlos123 on September 15, 2020, 10:08:14 AM
Quote from: josh on September 15, 2020, 03:33:19 AM
Is this one better, Carlos?

It seemed better to me, but my Spanish is worse than my French and my French is nearly non-existent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYMx-3ogn3Q

Pretty good. Something missing, but hard to tell what it is. Seems to tell us what he’s gonna do for us. How about WITH us? Any Latina/o on his team?
Title: ?
Post by: carlos123 on September 15, 2020, 10:09:52 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 15, 2020, 08:30:18 AM
Trump had a huge day with Hispanics yesterday.

Incluyendo a Chamaco Cartero?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 15, 2020, 11:28:47 AM
Just got back from hoops.  Turns out one Chinese guy I play with grew up in Panama until he was 15, so speaks fluent Spanish.  Surprised me.
Title: Fait Accompli
Post by: chipstern on September 15, 2020, 04:20:15 PM
Quote from: josh on September 15, 2020, 03:33:19 AM
Is this one better, Carlos?

It seemed better to me, but my Spanish is worse than my French and my French is nearly non-existent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYMx-3ogn3Q

I took Level 1 Spanish (Castilian, not the Caribbean vernacular so well known in NYC).  Three years in a row.  Sadder than McKinley's Funeral...even the horses cried. 

When I was driving a cab, I had a few lame words and phrases I could deploy, and Hispanic people in NYC were always so gracious and grateful for a gringo to be respectful enough to even offer up a few lame phrases, but having lived in Hispanic nabes since I arrived in NYC in 1976, I always founbd the disrespect accorded Puerto Ricans and Dominicans and Cubans really grating.  "SPEAK ENGLISH." Fuck YOU--Their English is one hell of a lot better than your Spanish, MF. 

Anyway, I maneuvered them in to a corny joke which always got an appreciative laugh.

"Tu hablas Espanol?"

[Forgive the spelling]

"No, no, no...muy nada--muy pacquito.  Hola Isabel, como estas?  Donde esta la biblioteca?  VAS A INFERNO, PENDEJO.

My punchline was originally maricone, but that seemed a little strong, and saying pendejo is more like a Jew saying schmuck. 

I learned the term pendejo, because the streets in NYC are [were] fairly crowded, and it was not uncommon for people to brush up against each other.  One afternoon on 181st Street, apparently I brushed up against an older Hispanic brother, and he took offense.  Next thing I know, he was jabbing his finger into my chest.  "When you hit somebody, you are supposed to say excuse me."  SIR, WOULD YOU PLEASE TAKE YOUR FINGER OFF OF MY CHEST.  When he jabbed me again, I slapped him upside his face.  He started coming towards me, and I held up my hand in a the STOP SIGN gesture, that is to say, YOU DON'T WANT TO GO THERE. 

I felt like a jerk for allowing things to escalate to such a degree over something so petty, but you do not lay your hands upon another man in Washington Heights. 

When I got to my taxi garage for the shape up, I asked a Dominican driver, what I might be able to say en espanol to let someone know that I was from the street, too, and to downshift from a confrontation. 

"Call him a maricone."

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? 

"Faggot."

WHOA, I'M NOT GOING TO CALL A HISPANIC MALE A FAGGOT.  I"M TRYING TO DEESCALATE< NOT START WORLD WAR 3.  HAVE YOU GOT SOMETHING A BIT SOFTER?

"Call him a quica face."

MEANING?

"Pussy face."

NO, YOU'RE NOT FEELING ME.  SOMETHING MORE FRATERNAL, LIKE WHEN A JEW CALLS ANOTHER JEW A SCHMUCK OR A PUTZ.

"Ah, call him a pendejo." 

He was not really clear on what that meant, and at some latter point, I was told that pendejo referred to the tiny hairs in your butt crack.

CARE TO WEIGH IN ON THIS, Senor Carlos? 

As for FRENCH?

Decided to try it for my first semester freshman requirement at college.

It did NOT go well. 

For my final exam, I showed up with a six pack of beer, an acknowledgement of the inevitable.  When an elderly proctor took note of my morning mourning, I indicated that the end results were a fait accompli, which some 50 years later, it now occurs to me, was a snippet of French, correct in context and meaning.   

Title: DUH
Post by: chipstern on September 15, 2020, 04:21:36 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 15, 2020, 08:30:18 AM
Trump had a huge day with Hispanics yesterday.

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/LonelyCreativeBoar-small.gif)
Title: The Only Living Boy in New York
Post by: Kam on September 15, 2020, 05:55:44 PM
Appearing on J.J. Redick’s “The Old Man and the Three” podcast, Durant had this to say about his free agency decision.

“I didn’t want to be the savior of the Knicks or New York,” Durant said. “I didn’t care about being the King of New York. That never really moved me. I didn’t care about being on Broadway. I just wanted to play ball and go to the crib and chill. And that’s what Brooklyn embodied.”
Title: Re: DUH
Post by: facilitatorn on September 15, 2020, 06:48:01 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 15, 2020, 04:21:36 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 15, 2020, 08:30:18 AM
Trump had a huge day with Hispanics yesterday.

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/LonelyCreativeBoar-small.gif)

At the very center of trump’s huge day,

http://www.salon.com/2020/09/15/experimental-concentration-camp-whistleblower-alleges-women-face-hysterectomies-in-ice-detention/ (http://www.salon.com/2020/09/15/experimental-concentration-camp-whistleblower-alleges-women-face-hysterectomies-in-ice-detention/)

Nothing says trump administration like forced hysterectomy. No one wants four more years of that.
Title: Re: DUH
Post by: chipstern on September 15, 2020, 08:36:43 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 15, 2020, 06:48:01 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 15, 2020, 04:21:36 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 15, 2020, 08:30:18 AM
Trump had a huge day with Hispanics yesterday.

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/LonelyCreativeBoar-small.gif)

At the very center of trump’s huge day,

http://www.salon.com/2020/09/15/experimental-concentration-camp-whistleblower-alleges-women-face-hysterectomies-in-ice-detention/ (http://www.salon.com/2020/09/15/experimental-concentration-camp-whistleblower-alleges-women-face-hysterectomies-in-ice-detention/)

Nothing says trump administration like forced hysterectomy. No one wants four more years of that.

EUGENICS?  No one? 

Save perhaps Himmler, Mengele and Kiid. 
Title: Re: The Only Living Boy in New York
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 15, 2020, 08:58:01 PM
Quote from: Kam on September 15, 2020, 05:55:44 PM
Appearing on J.J. Redick’s “The Old Man and the Three” podcast, Durant had this to say about his free agency decision.

“I didn’t want to be the savior of the Knicks or New York,” Durant said. “I didn’t care about being the King of New York. That never really moved me. I didn’t care about being on Broadway. I just wanted to play ball and go to the crib and chill. And that’s what Brooklyn embodied.”

FEAR
Title: ooh this series is gonna be a treat
Post by: lesterluv on September 15, 2020, 09:31:29 PM
what.............a..............game!



*** jeezus the 76ers are idiots for letting Butler go
****jeezus the 76ers are idiots for the Fultz/Tatum+++ fiasco
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 15, 2020, 09:39:00 PM
that game was a fucking war

4th qtr is when the Celts pissed the game away

no excuse for losing a 14 point lead

Kudos to the Heat-tough team

Kemba looked broken-no speed, no lift and he's was getting doubled on the point like a pack of hyenas stalking a wounded impala.

what a great game saver by Bam

might see tha replayed a few more times

young Deuce may have nightmares over that play.

His old man will
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on September 15, 2020, 09:55:06 PM
War indeed. Wow.
I'm jealous I don't get to root for one of these teams.
You Enjoy. or Suffer. or Enjoy and Suffer.
Title: butt crack hairs?
Post by: carlos123 on September 15, 2020, 10:04:48 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 15, 2020, 04:20:15 PM

NO, YOU'RE NOT FEELING ME.  SOMETHING MORE FRATERNAL, LIKE WHEN A JEW CALLS ANOTHER JEW A SCHMUCK OR A PUTZ.

"Ah, call him a pendejo." 

He was not really clear on what that meant, and at some latter point, I was told that pendejo referred to the tiny hairs in your butt crack.

CARE TO WEIGH IN ON THIS, Senor Carlos? 


Chip, I had no idea pendejo had anything to do with any kind of hairs, so I looked it up. This is what I came up with:

"The word pendejo comes from a Latin root meaning “pubic hair.” In 16th-century Spain, pendejo was apparently first used to describe pubescent teens who thought they were adults—you know, because they had pubes. In the 17th century, pendejo came to mean “coward,” a mocking or taboo reference."

In the real actual world, it means stupid or sucker, you know, like Trumptin voters.

But, depending on how you say it, it can be sort of friendly, especially if you tell somebody "no seas pendejo".

By the way, if you want to type ñ on a computer press the Alt key and type 164. For Ñ it's Alt-165. I'm sure you know how to do it on a smartphone.
Title: Re: DUH
Post by: carlos123 on September 15, 2020, 10:09:14 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 15, 2020, 06:48:01 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 15, 2020, 04:21:36 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 15, 2020, 08:30:18 AM
Trump had a huge day with Hispanics yesterday.

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/LonelyCreativeBoar-small.gif)

At the very center of trump’s huge day,

http://www.salon.com/2020/09/15/experimental-concentration-camp-whistleblower-alleges-women-face-hysterectomies-in-ice-detention/ (http://www.salon.com/2020/09/15/experimental-concentration-camp-whistleblower-alleges-women-face-hysterectomies-in-ice-detention/)

Nothing says trump administration like forced hysterectomy. No one wants four more years of that.

And private prisons and ICE detention centers are a horrible aberration. Prison for Profit! They should be abolished as soon as Trumptin is outta here.
Title: Bank v. Riley
Post by: carlos123 on September 15, 2020, 10:10:41 PM
Sorry about today Bank.

Hope you guys come back and beat him.
Title: Re: DUH
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 15, 2020, 10:14:21 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 15, 2020, 08:36:43 PM


Save perhaps Himmler, Mengele and Kiid.


Come on, bro - you're better than this
Title: Re: Bank v. Riley
Post by: bankshot1 on September 15, 2020, 10:50:07 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on September 15, 2020, 10:10:41 PM
Sorry about today Bank.

Hope you guys come back and beat him.

Riles?

Carlos-That was a tough loss, good thing it was G1.

They should be ok, they lost in OT to a team shooting 45% for 3s.

The thing that concerned me was Kemba looks broken.

Feel bad for the guy.

 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 15, 2020, 11:06:10 PM
Why do the Clips keep doubling every play?
It's not working and they're giving up too many open 3's.

And they really need to get their offense flowing.
Where's the urgency?

My early 4Q goal would be to go at Jokic and tag a 5th foul on him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 15, 2020, 11:19:46 PM
Get to the FT line.

And CLips have missed some easy stuff, like a Jamychael dunk and a Lou W layup.
Geez.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 15, 2020, 11:32:55 PM
Why do they persist with doubling all the time?

Maybe if they played Zubac, they wouldn't have had to double and wouldn't have gotten killed on the boards.

What's up Doc?

PG13 had a terrible game.
All the Clips did, though Pa Bev was solid, and JaM Green played hard.
Morris & Shamet again no shows.

I thought the Kawhi hype had gone too far.  Very nice 2-way player, but people were starting to all-time great him.  Last year would have been a very different story if his off-balance corner 3 bouncer didn't drop v. PHI.  Kawhi didn't even really try to take over this game or right his team.  One thing I found odd is Kawhi would start some possessions with a mismatch (Plums or Jokic or Harris) and then get a screen to cancel the advantage.  I found that odd and counter-productive.

Clips might want to have some defenders on their 2nd unit.
Lou W, Trezl, RegJax, Shamet.  Green.
Title: Re: DUH
Post by: facilitatorn on September 16, 2020, 12:13:33 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 15, 2020, 10:14:21 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 15, 2020, 08:36:43 PM


Save perhaps Himmler, Mengele and Kiid.


Come on, bro - you're better than this

Chip’s got twenty-twenty vision where the soul of the nation is concerned. You have your head up your ass.
Title: Re: DUH
Post by: josh on September 16, 2020, 12:56:02 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 15, 2020, 10:14:21 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 15, 2020, 08:36:43 PM


Save perhaps Himmler, Mengele and Kiid.


Come on, bro - you're better than this

The problem is not Chip, Kid.

It's you.

When the people you believe are "better than this" in all sincerity lump you in with the Nazis, if you don't like it, perhaps it is time for you to step back and examine your expressed positions and allegiances.

You have very blatantly allied yourself with and expressed your approval of a man whose conduct is fascist. Not this incident or that one, but as a matter of course.

You have not repudiated his conduct, with rare exception and tepidly at that.

If you don't want to be lumped in with Nazis, stop taking their side on a regular basis. Or, perhaps, at all.

Otherwise, you have earned every comparison that Chip or others makes of you to Hitler's squad.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 16, 2020, 04:18:04 AM
Hearing something on the basis of Paul for Randle and Knox being floated. I have two counter proposals for OKC to seal the deal in which NY is taking on both more risk and more obligation.

1) Randle Knox and pick #38 for Paul and Pick #25.

2) Randle Knox and DSJ for Paul and Diallo.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 16, 2020, 04:55:48 AM
How about trading a similar package for John Wall?
He's got a deal like CP3's, 2 more years around $45M each.
He's been knicked up (and knifed up as my spellcheck preferred), never meshed with Beal and has been flashing gang signs lately.

Randle, Knox, Franc (or Jr. Smith) for Wall.
WIZ get to save money and move on.  Beal, Randle and their yute -- Hachimura, Troy Brown, Thos Bryant + Knox & Franc.  I guess the problem is with Bryant, and Bertans and Hachi, they don't need another PF in Randle).   Er, 3-way trade!

Knix get a younger PG (Wall just turned 30) with talent but significant injury history, who never really figured things out.  His main skill was being a transition blur, which injuries probably have limited.

CP3 would add a smart vet and stabilizer for 2 years at crazy money.  Wall would add a potential long-term piece for a 2 year looksee at the same crazy money.

I think ditching Randle is a plus in both deals.  Knox fits in to their needs.  But Randle isn't much of a match.  I've said all along that he's a hard player to build around or fit in with a team.  I don't think many teams want/need a Randle.  So not an easy guy to trade.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 16, 2020, 11:28:32 AM
Heh

Will be interesting to see what Thibs thinks about/does with Randle.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 16, 2020, 11:33:32 AM
https://hoopshype.com/gallery/anthony-davis-best-per-nba-playoffs-history/


Tracy McGrady getting some props
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Urethra_Franklin on September 16, 2020, 02:16:43 PM
Did the NBA season ever start up again? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 16, 2020, 03:19:27 PM
Yeah - Knicks are in the Finals
Title: Beating A Dead Horse
Post by: chipstern on September 16, 2020, 03:20:08 PM
At the risk of repeating myself, not that this ever stopped me....

BoD frequently likes to reference his Carmelo Anthony Knicks-Boston Trade Proposal, in which he had the prescience to fantasize about the Knicks copping Jaylen Brown & Terry Rozier.

K. 

As someone who certainly made his peace with Carmelo Anthony as a Knick, in real time I was roundly mocked on this FORUM for my virulent opposition to the Carmelo Anthony Trade. 

As some might recall, Melo demanded an immediate trade, and the Knicks acquiesced, instead of simply waiting for the summer, signing him as a free agent, and KEEPING ALL OF THEIR ASSETS. Again, instead of simply waiting for free agency, they cashed in ALL OF THEIR YOUTHFUL TALENT, and, of course, draft picks. 

I forget who reamed me out, but I was most genially castigated for my horror at the Knicks adding to their beau-coup of assets, when then Denver GM, Masai Ujiri, insisted on adding Timofey Mozgov to the heist, which included, among others, our starting PG, Raymond Felton, who was then having a career year in tandem with Amare Stoudamire, as well as former #1 draft picks Danilo Gallineri and Wilson Chandler, who were thriving under Coach Mike D'Antoni, and draft picks, of course, because over the history of this franchise, draft picks have been spent like a drunken sailor. 

DRUNKEN SAILORS > Instant Gratification > SUCKING SUCKING SUCKING....

Hey, back when Hubie Brown was the coach, we traded two #1 picks for Gerald Henderson and Juuwan Oldham that turned into the #5 and #7 picks.  That was the draft that yielded the likes of Scottie Pippen and Kevin Johnson among others.  We got back a later #1 pick, the seventeenth pick as I recall, which produced Mark Jackson, but still. 

The #1 pick we flipped (and Marcus Camby) we surrendered for Antonio McDyess, turned into Nene Hillario (Drafted one slot before Amare Stoudamire), and who was that late first round PG who washed out?  Anyone? 

The second of two #1 picks we gave up for Stephon Marbury turned into Gordon Hayward. 

Hey we gave up two #1 picks for Eddy Curry, which turned into LaMarcus Aldridge and Joakim Noah.   

And Carmelo? 

As I recall, one #1 pick was a gimme, and one #1 pick gave Denver the right to swap. 

And at the risk of repeating myself, but hey, why not? 

That final #1 pick Denver pilfered for us, so that Melo could get his money straightaway, rather than wait for the summer, and ended up stripping the team of talent which might've enabled the Knicks to compete, and make Melo complete?

JAMAL MURRAY, 6'4" PG Out Of Kentucky. 

Jamal Murray' stat line in these here 2020 playoffs: 27. 1 PPG 5.0 RPG 6.4 APG 50.2 FG% 49.1 3P% 91.3 FT%


And the Knicks are presently creating an offer, ALLEGEDLY, for Chris Paul, a great man, a great PG, a great competitor, a great leader, and 35 years old. 

Jamal Murray is 23 years old. 

I have seen trade proposals, both on line and in this forum, in which 21-year old Kevin Knox and 22-year old Dennis Smith's names have been happily floated. 

I'm going to go out on a limb and make a prediction. 

If we give up on Knox and Smith, and simply toss them in the hopper,  la-de-dah, we are going to watch them mature and prosper on teams with the patience to let them grow and nurture their talent. 

I have made my peace with the notion of the Knicks reaching out for the likes of a Chris Paul.  That does not mean I am doing a dance of joy about it. 

I am afraid we are about to enter yet another rabbit hole.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 16, 2020, 03:40:51 PM
If we give up on Knox and Smith, and simply toss them in the hopper,  la-de-dah, we are going to watch them mature and prosper on teams with the patience to let them grow and nurture their talent.


How much are you paying them to stay?

Arent they NBA tweeners - that is in between having the value of what you'd have to extend them at and a lesser NBA value?

Teams letting players leave do not often get them back at cheap rates - thus these trweeners - MANY the last few years streewn across the league - end up on other rosters after not getting extended - some doing well and some not.

Knicks getting something of value for them would be their assessment that Knox andf Ntlikina are unworthy of extension cash - thats all.  Playing them out and not extending them when you are not really contending yet is what is nonsensical.

I ask again

You are extending these guys from their rookie pacts - at the going rate?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 16, 2020, 04:29:15 PM
Quote
BoD frequently likes to reference his Carmelo Anthony Knicks-Boston Trade Proposal, in which he had the prescience to fantasize about the Knicks copping Jaylen Brown & Terry Rozier.

As the sole Celt's fan on this board, Bo's frequent mention of this proposal always makes me laugh. When he was proposing this trade I posted that there was NO WAY, NONE, NADA, NO FUCKING CHANCE, the Celts would make the trade. It was mentioned to Bo that Melo was an overpaid ballhog who wouldn't pass or wouldn't play D, that would tie up the Celts cap space as they rebuilt, And in return for escaping Melo Bo wanted 2 high potential young'uns who were on rookie contracts. It was just fanciful play-acting GMing by Bo, which is fine, its what fans do, and I understood why Bo wanted to make the trade, but i also understood why Ainge would not. To pretend that it was based in reality was kind of silly.

Title: Extensions
Post by: chipstern on September 16, 2020, 04:31:42 PM
Extensions an issue? 

Re-Up?

How is that an issue...RIGHT NOW?

I want to see what Knox and Smith are capable of doing under Thibs and his new coaching staff. 

And if we are going to invest in the likes of a Chris Paul, let alone Chris ROCK, wouldn't it make sense, having a coach on the floor, if we have some young players for him to coach? 

Recognizing your ongoing animus for Ntilikina, let alone the likes of Knox and Smith, no one is off the table. 

However, given our long dishonored tradition of giving up and young players WAY TOO FUCKING SOON, worrying about re-upping or picking up the RFA Option on any of our kids, when we are paying 9.5 million for Taj and 8 million for Payton and Ellington and 19.5 million for Randle? 

Come on. 

PS: I am in a distinct minority here, but if Randle is on the block, I am all in for keeping Portis.  Bertans will cost way more in a bidding war with Washington. 

PPS: If we could somehow let Gibson's contact lapse, and re-up him for something like the lower MCE, I would be down for bringing him back.  Harkless?  Mmmmmm, not for anything vaguely like 11 million.  Bullock?  Good defender, good shooter, good contract. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 16, 2020, 04:35:39 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on September 16, 2020, 04:29:15 PM
Quote
BoD frequently likes to reference his Carmelo Anthony Knicks-Boston Trade Proposal, in which he had the prescience to fantasize about the Knicks copping Jaylen Brown & Terry Rozier.

As the sole Celt's fan on this board, Bo's frequent mention of this proposal always makes me laugh. When he was proposing this trade I posted that there was NO WAY, NONE, NADA, NO FUCKING CHANCE, the Celts would make the trade. It was mentioned to Bo that Melo was an overpaid ballhog who wouldn't pass or wouldn't play D, that would tie up the Celts cap space as they rebuilt, And in return for escaping Melo Bo wanted 2 high potential young'uns who were on rookie contracts. It was just fanciful play-acting GMing by Bo, which is fine, its what fans do, and I understood why Bo wanted to make the trade, but i also understood why Ainge would not. To pretend that it was based in reality was kind of silly.

Love me some BoD, but his pride of authorship in a "trade" that was never even vaguely on the event horizon, and his rainy day dream away slight return to it over and over, seems, well, kind of....ODD. 
Title: RJ Barrett and RJ Hampton?
Post by: Kam on September 16, 2020, 04:37:39 PM
https://sports.yahoo.com/insight-rj-hamptons-interview-knicks-201500540.html (https://sports.yahoo.com/insight-rj-hamptons-interview-knicks-201500540.html)

Insight into RJ Hampton's interview with the Knicks and what he's done with Mike Miller to improve his shot

#notthatmikemillertheothermikemiller
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 16, 2020, 04:56:56 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 16, 2020, 04:35:39 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on September 16, 2020, 04:29:15 PM
Quote
BoD frequently likes to reference his Carmelo Anthony Knicks-Boston Trade Proposal, in which he had the prescience to fantasize about the Knicks copping Jaylen Brown & Terry Rozier.

As the sole Celt's fan on this board, Bo's frequent mention of this proposal always makes me laugh. When he was proposing this trade I posted that there was NO WAY, NONE, NADA, NO FUCKING CHANCE, the Celts would make the trade. It was mentioned to Bo that Melo was an overpaid ballhog who wouldn't pass or wouldn't play D, that would tie up the Celts cap space as they rebuilt, And in return for escaping Melo Bo wanted 2 high potential young'uns who were on rookie contracts. It was just fanciful play-acting GMing by Bo, which is fine, its what fans do, and I understood why Bo wanted to make the trade, but i also understood why Ainge would not. To pretend that it was based in reality was kind of silly.

Love me some BoD, but his pride of authorship in a "trade" that was never even vaguely on the event horizon, and his rainy day dream away slight return to it over and over, seems, well, kind of....ODD.

Chip-did i ever tell you about my Rick Robey For Michael Cooper and the Laker's #1 pick trade propsal in '79? Trade machine loved it. Red loved it, But ex-Celt and Laker GM, Bill Sharnan was a little lukewarm.  Damn that was a nice swap.

Red finally came up with a decent Robey trade that sent him west for a decent guard in '83.

sometimes these things take time!

 :)
Title: Re: RJ Barrett and RJ Hampton?
Post by: chipstern on September 16, 2020, 05:11:13 PM
Quote from: Kam on September 16, 2020, 04:37:39 PM
https://sports.yahoo.com/insight-rj-hamptons-interview-knicks-201500540.html (https://sports.yahoo.com/insight-rj-hamptons-interview-knicks-201500540.html)

Insight into RJ Hampton's interview with the Knicks and what he's done with Mike Miller to improve his shot

#notthatmikemillertheothermikemiller

Interesting. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 16, 2020, 05:17:21 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on September 16, 2020, 04:56:56 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 16, 2020, 04:35:39 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on September 16, 2020, 04:29:15 PM
Quote
BoD frequently likes to reference his Carmelo Anthony Knicks-Boston Trade Proposal, in which he had the prescience to fantasize about the Knicks copping Jaylen Brown & Terry Rozier.

As the sole Celt's fan on this board, Bo's frequent mention of this proposal always makes me laugh. When he was proposing this trade I posted that there was NO WAY, NONE, NADA, NO FUCKING CHANCE, the Celts would make the trade. It was mentioned to Bo that Melo was an overpaid ballhog who wouldn't pass or wouldn't play D, that would tie up the Celts cap space as they rebuilt, And in return for escaping Melo Bo wanted 2 high potential young'uns who were on rookie contracts. It was just fanciful play-acting GMing by Bo, which is fine, its what fans do, and I understood why Bo wanted to make the trade, but i also understood why Ainge would not. To pretend that it was based in reality was kind of silly.

Love me some BoD, but his pride of authorship in a "trade" that was never even vaguely on the event horizon, and his rainy day dream away slight return to it over and over, seems, well, kind of....ODD.

Chip-did i ever tell you about my Rick Robey For Michael Cooper and the Laker's #1 pick trade propsal in '79? Trade machine loved it. Red loved it, But ex-Celt and Laker GM, Bill Sharnan was a little lukewarm.  Damn that was a nice swap.

Red finally came up with a decent Robey trade that sent him west for a decent guard in '83.

sometimes these things take time!

 :)

I remember back in 1989-90. 

I was driving around and I heard on one of the sports radio outlets that the Knicks had traded Rod Strickland to the San Antonio Spurs.

I almost drove off the road. 

WE GOT SEAN ELLIOT.  WE GOT SEAN ELLIOT. 

We got the earthly remains of Maurice Cheeks. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 16, 2020, 05:44:24 PM
However, given our long dishonored tradition of giving up and young players WAY TOO FUCKING SOON, worrying about re-upping or picking up the RFA Option on any of our kids, when we are paying 9.5 million for Taj and 8 million for Payton and Ellington and 19.5 million for Randle?



The last three are far better players
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 16, 2020, 05:44:49 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 16, 2020, 05:17:21 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on September 16, 2020, 04:56:56 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 16, 2020, 04:35:39 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on September 16, 2020, 04:29:15 PM
Quote
BoD frequently likes to reference his Carmelo Anthony Knicks-Boston Trade Proposal, in which he had the prescience to fantasize about the Knicks copping Jaylen Brown & Terry Rozier.

As the sole Celt's fan on this board, Bo's frequent mention of this proposal always makes me laugh. When he was proposing this trade I posted that there was NO WAY, NONE, NADA, NO FUCKING CHANCE, the Celts would make the trade. It was mentioned to Bo that Melo was an overpaid ballhog who wouldn't pass or wouldn't play D, that would tie up the Celts cap space as they rebuilt, And in return for escaping Melo Bo wanted 2 high potential young'uns who were on rookie contracts. It was just fanciful play-acting GMing by Bo, which is fine, its what fans do, and I understood why Bo wanted to make the trade, but i also understood why Ainge would not. To pretend that it was based in reality was kind of silly.

Love me some BoD, but his pride of authorship in a "trade" that was never even vaguely on the event horizon, and his rainy day dream away slight return to it over and over, seems, well, kind of....ODD.

Chip-did i ever tell you about my Rick Robey For Michael Cooper and the Laker's #1 pick trade propsal in '79? Trade machine loved it. Red loved it, But ex-Celt and Laker GM, Bill Sharnan was a little lukewarm.  Damn that was a nice swap.

Red finally came up with a decent Robey trade that sent him west for a decent guard in '83.

sometimes these things take time!

 :)

I remember back in 1989-90. 

I was driving around and I heard on one of the sports radio outlets that the Knicks had traded Rod Strickland to the San Antonio Spurs.

I almost drove off the road. 

WE GOT SEAN ELLIOT.  WE GOT SEAN ELLIOT. 

We got the earthly remains of Maurice Cheeks.

Yeah.  It was a head scratcher for me even drafting Strickland a year after drafting MJAX at the same position in the same draft slot.
But looking back it was the right pick in a shit draft.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_1988.html (https://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_1988.html)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 16, 2020, 05:49:21 PM
Should have taken the white shooter.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 17, 2020, 12:22:28 AM
Back then the Knix seemed to draft a new PG every year or two.  It was kind of odd. Darrell Walker, Gerald Wilkins, Marc Jax, Strickland, Greg Anthony, Chollie Ward. That's 6 PG's in a 10 year period, while two of those years Knix had given away their 1st round pick.

Or if you want to start with Jax, a legit starting PG, then it's 4 PG's picked in a 7 year period, with one year no 1st rounder.  I guess that extra shuffling is what made it seem really odd when the Knix finally went long-term with Charlie "Fairly Good" Ward.

As for my Melo trade, Ainge was itching to make a splash, and there was some talk he was considering Melo.  Melo was still late prime (32, I think).  Ainge wisely decided Melo wasn't his kind of guy and moved on.  But Jaylen wasn't playing then and Rozier was wild and inefficient.  Young untapped talent.  I forget the trade ballast.  It was a good trade if BOS had a less discerning GM, but reports were Ainge considered Melo (as any GM should consider any trade).   I had a few other good Melo trades but don't recall them.  Should look them up. 

Last year, I was reminded that I once offered JEarl Smith for Draymond Green, when he was an unhappy bench fixture stuck behind David Lee, and no one here was interested at all ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 17, 2020, 12:33:43 AM
What I don't care much for is when folks only want to cop a player AFTER he has nova-ed and become expensive.  The time to get Bertans was when he was a sharpshooter not playing enough for SAS.  Same with Joe Harris back on CLE.  Both nice useful players, but to get them in FA you're going to overpay -- the market rate + a FA premium. 

For example, in my 3&D wing fixation days, I wanted to get Crowder from DAL when he had minimal to no offense.  Middleton from MIL when he just had 2-way potential.  DeMarre Carroll when he was a Utah backup with energy and just starting to add 3 to his D.  [Note: 2 of the 3 were indeed traded]. 

To me, that's what the Knix need to identify and target.  Young guys who can take it to another level or two.  I'll toss out some candidates when I can, but haven't seen a enough games the past two seasons to scout as much as I'd like.  And there are a lot of new young faces in the league to sort through.  In the bubble ATL started one game with 4 guys I had never heard of. 
I've had a few guys on watch such as Harry Giles Goatboy.

We tried a scrappier lower level of this, when we brought in a lot of high draft washouts under Fizz -- Vonleh, Muddy, TreyBurke.  I thought those were all worthwhile reclamations as you never know who might get it late.  Similarly, I'm still interested in a very cheap Stan Johnson, Myers Leonard, Alex Len, MKG.  But that's more likely to get you a solid bench player if things pan out.

The hit rate is better when trading for guys with potential rather than reclaiming washouts.  Sure can do both, but I'd be looking to cop a young potential talent in a Randle deal.  And willing to use Jr. Smith or Knox as a sweetener.

Given our horrible shooting, Bertans is intriguing, but he's another weak defender, will be expensive and won't move the needle until we figure out a lot more.  Just seems like a too-late, yesterday move, while the Knix need to look forward and find the next underutilized player.  There are always guys who get squeezed out of a rotation, or are late bloomers or need a better team fit/role.  Gotta look for a Thomas Bryant or Crowder or going back a Ben Wallace languishing somewhere who can play given the chance.

One thing bad is the Knix lack of continuity, management dysfunction, revolving door for players and coaches, lack of chemistry means that we are not an ideal place for guys to find their way.  I didn't like much about Fizz, but he did get scrubs to improve their game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 17, 2020, 01:06:19 AM
Quote
As for my Melo trade, Ainge was itching to make a splash,

Ainge's big splash was a strong play for a FA Durant in '16 and then the Kyrie trade in '17.

It was never Melo, an aging past his prime vet, who was an offense clogging shot machine who didn't play D.

Who was on the books for about $25 million a year.

And not for 2 high upside 1st round picks who were under rookie contracts.

Quote
It was a good trade if BOS had a less discerning GM, but reports were Ainge considered Melo (as any GM should consider any trade).

Ainge would have taken the call, listened and laughed at the proposal.

Ainge wasn't blowing up the team for Melo.

It was so one-sided and nonsensical on its face, that like Melo by that point in his career, was a non-starter.


 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 17, 2020, 02:12:02 AM
Carmelo Anthony-to-Celtics scenario picking up steam
By Marc BermanApril 20, 2017  (https://nypost.com/2017/04/20/carmelo-anthony-to-celtics-scenario-could-pick-up-steam/)

Quote
According to an NBA source, the Celtics coaching staff was in favor of trading for Anthony at the trade deadline, but general manager Danny Ainge had too many reservations. One of Ainge’s concerns, according to a source, was an Anthony trade would have given Boston no real cap space to work with for the 2017 free-agent class.

With the top-seeded Celtics possibly on their way to getting swept by the eighth-seeded Bulls, Ainge’s thoughts on adding Anthony could change this July. ... As feared, the Celtics haven’t had enough firepower in the fourth quarter, relying solely on 5-foot-10 point guard Isaiah Thomas.

The Post has learned that in talks with the Celtics, their defensive small forward Jae Crowder would be a major player of interest for Knicks president Phil Jackson.

That reporting had BOS interested and Ainge backing off because he wouldn't be able to be a FA player.

Quote from: bankshot1 on September 17, 2020, 01:06:19 AM
It was never Melo, an aging past his prime vet, who was an offense clogging shot machine who didn't play D.
Who was on the books for about $25 million a year.
And not for 2 high upside 1st round picks who were under rookie contracts.

Anthony was named to the All-Star Game and averaged 22.4 points, 5.9 rebounds and 2.9 assists per contest in 2016-17.  BOS was looking for more offense to help IT.

Quote
Ainge would have taken the call, listened and laughed at the proposal.
Ainge wasn't blowing up the team for Melo.
It was so one-sided and nonsensical on its face, that like Melo by that point in his career, was a non-starter.

Wrong.  Anthony was named to the All-Star Game and averaged 22.4 points, 5.9 rebounds and 2.9 assists per contest in 2016-17.

Now how much the Celts would have given is unknown.  But Rozier and Jaylen were not remotely "blowing up the team."  At the time, they were both underperforming bench players.   Melo was coming off an all-star year.  And BOS would have been able to dump Amir and Jerebko's contracts on NYK to lessen the burden of Melo's.
Apparently the main issue for Ainge was he would be cut out of the main FA market, where he was targeting Jimmy Butler and Paul George.

Phil was interested in Crowder, but he was BOS best defender at the time (before Smart fully emerged later) which would be important if you're going to court both Isaiah Thomas and Melo.  If BOS was committed to breakout year Crowder long term, Jaylen was expendable, especially with Tatum ahead of him (and it wasn't clear Jaylen could play SG).  Sure, Ainge would probably prefer to give NYK one of their many 1sts and hold on to Brown.  But even a Rozier, Amir + BOS 1st rounder would have been a decent trade for NYK.

Anyway, there was Melo to BOS talk.  Phil was definitely interested.  BOS thought about it at the deadline, but declined.  But after getting smoked in the playoffs, BOS indeed decided to blow it up, by moving IT.

3 terrific Ainge moves:
trading KG and Pierce for Nets 1st rounders forever.
trading damaged IT for Kyrie
trading Fultz for Tatum and a 1st rounder

The one big move which hasn't panned out is FA Hayward, but mainly due to injuries, which usually can't be foreseen.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 17, 2020, 03:00:52 AM
From a BOS source at the time: (https://www.bostonherald.com/2017/01/31/bulpett-if-an-nba-blockbuster-occurs-look-for-celtics-to-be-involved/)

Quote
the C’s do have interest in Anthony for themselves. They have for a long time. And it’s no doubt their attention gained an even greater degree when word filtered out that the Celts are one of the clubs for whom Carmelo would consider waiving his no-trade clause.

The question in this case, and, really, in every case, is price. According to multiple sources, there have been, as of the weekend, no formal trade talks between the Celts and New York, but that was largely because the Knicks are believed to be asking a Melo’s ransom for the star.

Anthony could be the additional major scoring source the Celts need, and there is every reason to believe he would fit here from the technical hoop standpoint and as a teammate. But unless Ainge can get more than the 32-year-old Melo, it is hard to picture a scenario in which he surrenders one of the first-rounders he has coming from Brooklyn.

With IT, Smart and Rozier, Terry was likely available (and later moved).
With Tatum in place and Jaylen barely playing, Knix should have made a play to pry Brown loose.  It's the kind of smart forward-looking trade you try to make.  Maybe BOS would never have let go.  Depends how they projected Jaylen, but those young for old trades are rarely wise.

If Knix got Rozier + Jaylen + ballast (Amir & Jerebko) that would have been great.
Rozier + a BOS mid-round 1st + ballast = solid trade
Jaylen + BOS 1st + ballast = solid trade
(BOS was larded with picks)

Even without the mid-1st, NYK would have had to consider the deal.
Knix could have sweetened the deal by adding someone.

No one knew if Rozier was a starting-level PG or how good Jaylen could be.
Knix really needed a PG and Jaylen was underwhelming as a rook.
So at the time I wasn't sure which NYK should target more.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 17, 2020, 05:15:21 AM
I never understood why the Knix couldn't pick up a Dragic or Rubio, a solid steady starting PG.  Reportedly we had a Rose-Rubio swap in hand and Phil funked it up.
Maybe then we wouldn't have drafted Franc and could have tabbed a Big such as Zach Collins, BAM!, John Collins, with Donovan on the board as well.

And Phil's mistreatment of Melo, Noah, KZ no doubt went noticed throughout the Association.  Noah a former all-star, Melo a well-liked future HoFer, KZ a rising young star.  Knix treated like crap.  Then wonder why top FA's such as a Durant or LeBJ, or Butler don't come NY way, and all we can rustle up in Julius "Throwback" Randle.  The losing an dysfunction don't help, but all it's all part of the same comprehensive package.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 17, 2020, 05:59:02 AM
Stanley Crouch, 74 (https://www.npr.org/2020/09/16/913619163/stanley-crouch-towering-jazz-critic-dead-at-74)

Hey Chip, you must have run across Crouch, a fellow drummer at one time, in your NYC jazz life.  That NPR obit is quite good, with a fine/funny Roy Haynes anecdote mid-way through.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 17, 2020, 09:35:51 AM
I never understood why the Knix couldn't pick up a Dragic or Rubio, a solid steady starting PG.  Reportedly we had a Rose-Rubio swap in hand and Phil funked it up.


a)  You never wanted Dragic
b)  Research what happened with Rubio.  Minnesota didnt see Rose staying.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 17, 2020, 09:40:07 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 17, 2020, 03:00:52 AM
From a BOS source at the time: (https://www.bostonherald.com/2017/01/31/bulpett-if-an-nba-blockbuster-occurs-look-for-celtics-to-be-involved/)

Quote
the C’s do have interest in Anthony for themselves. They have for a long time. And it’s no doubt their attention gained an even greater degree when word filtered out that the Celts are one of the clubs for whom Carmelo would consider waiving his no-trade clause.

The question in this case, and, really, in every case, is price. According to multiple sources, there have been, as of the weekend, no formal trade talks between the Celts and New York, but that was largely because the Knicks are believed to be asking a Melo’s ransom for the star.

Anthony could be the additional major scoring source the Celts need, and there is every reason to believe he would fit here from the technical hoop standpoint and as a teammate. But unless Ainge can get more than the 32-year-old Melo, it is hard to picture a scenario in which he surrenders one of the first-rounders he has coming from Brooklyn.

With IT, Smart and Rozier, Terry was likely available (and later moved).
With Tatum in place and Jaylen barely playing, Knix should have made a play to pry Brown loose.  It's the kind of smart forward-looking trade you try to make.  Maybe BOS would never have let go.  Depends how they projected Jaylen, but those young for old trades are rarely wise.

If Knix got Rozier + Jaylen + ballast (Amir & Jerebko) that would have been great.
Rozier + a BOS mid-round 1st + ballast = solid trade
Jaylen + BOS 1st + ballast = solid trade
(BOS was larded with picks)

Even without the mid-1st, NYK would have had to consider the deal.
Knix could have sweetened the deal by adding someone.

No one knew if Rozier was a starting-level PG or how good Jaylen could be.
Knix really needed a PG and Jaylen was underwhelming as a rook.
So at the time I wasn't sure which NYK should target more.

Do you think the Knicks made the Melo deal without going to Boston and LAC first?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 17, 2020, 09:44:30 AM
I've had a few guys on watch such as Harry Giles Goatboy.



That's it, I'm done


(and by the way, Gerald wasnt a PG)
- nor was Walker - mostly
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 17, 2020, 10:07:07 AM
Funny how in the annals of "lets kill the Knicks for their draft", you dont hear much of Darrel Walker selected over Clyde Drexler in '83
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 17, 2020, 10:21:34 AM
I don't feel like re-examining every trade or FA Ainge pondered or might have been offered in 15, 16, 17, 18 as he rebuilt the Celts coming out of the Nets mega-trade

but the point remains Melo for Brown and Rozier was so one-sided in the Knicks favor only a Knicks fan boy would think it an equitable trade based in reality.

And no one is denying that Melo was an all-star at the time, just that it he was not a good trade for several reasons, including as already posted he was an aging ball-clog who didn't play D, and was not a very good fit, and he would have killed the Celtics cap space.

That the Knicks looked at the Celts as a dumping ground for Melo is not a surprise given the Celts surplus of 1s and reasonablly good players under good contracts.

everyone wanted to get the Celts engaged for those picks and young assets.

But since the Celts had mostly good contracts, and not a lot of bad ones, finding the "ballast" to make up the difference to make the NBA trade machine smile on Melos $25 million and B&R $6 million would have meant blowing up the team for a guy who really didn't fit. Bo seems to either miss this small point or not understand it.

The Celts wanted a 2-way wing and had ireal demonstrated interest in younger stars like Durant, Paul George, Jimmy Butler but finally settled on Gordon Hayward.

They wanted young 2-way stars with upside not fading 1-way players

Melo was really not in the mix,

But the REAL ISSUE REMAINS: Trading Melo for Brown and Rozier (and several other players) to accomodate Bo's wet dream fantasies was never a reality.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 17, 2020, 10:26:29 AM
No doubt Ainge has been an excellent Celts GM, all told

And from what I hear he was never dealing Brown.  Just where they selected him shows how high C's have been on Jaylen all along - and its silly that Bo states, "Jaylen wasnt playing" when trying to convince folks Brown was available.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 17, 2020, 10:41:54 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 17, 2020, 10:26:29 AM
No doubt Ainge has been an excellent Celts GM, all told

And from what I hear he was never dealing Brown.  Just where they selected him shows how high C's have been on Jaylen all along - and its silly that Bo states, "Jaylen wasnt playing" when trying to convince folks Brown was available.

Celts tend to bring rookies along slowly-to make too much of Brown only playing 15-20 minutes in his rookie season is making a mountain of a mole hill.

its silly

same with Rozier playing behind IT. There's only so many minutes to go around.

Same with Grant Williams this year, a high hoops IQ Marcus Smart type player, who got maybe 15 minutes.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 17, 2020, 11:24:41 AM
https://twitter.com/Bucks/status/1306310529007452160

Congrats to Tatum for all NBA 3rd team

Snubs?

Should Westbrook have made it?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 17, 2020, 11:59:35 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on September 17, 2020, 10:21:34 AM
But since the Celts had mostly good contracts, and not a lot of bad ones, finding the "ballast" to make up the difference to make the NBA trade machine smile on Melos $25 million and B&R $6 million would have meant blowing up the team for a guy who really didn't fit. Bo seems to either miss this small point or not understand it.

Amir and Jerebko were the obvious ballast replaced by Melo.  They weren't key pieces.  The salary matching wasn't hard.  There was no blowing up needed.

The issue was really, as that BOS article alludes, that Ainge/Celts had some interest in Melo in previous years, but by the time Phil was trying to ride Melo out of town, BOS only had some residual interest left, and were moving on to other options.  The thing is Melo was attainable and FA is a crapshoot -- Celts didn't get PG13 or Butler, their main targets at the time -- so they had to think about it some.  But had largely moved on.

Funny, googling for Melo + Boston gets lots of Fab Melo hits.  I kind of forgot about him, and reminds that Ainge also muffed draft picks, but smartly had many to work with and got the very high picks right.  Ainge also drafted Yubesele, a guy I might have seen more than Ainge did, and I evaluated as not a 1st round pick and likely wouldn't stick in the League.

I also ran across a BOS Real GM message board link, where a Celt fan was advocating for Smart + Amir + Jerebko for Melo.  I thought that highly unlikely, as BOS had just jettisoned A Very Bradley in favor of Smart.  So were not moving him, a tough young defender for Melo.  Phil was enamored of Crowder, and he might have been available with Ainge figuring Tatum would move into the 3&D wing role soon enough. 

I also ran across an article saying that Phil was a big Austin Rivers fan and wanted to get him.  Certainly would have made kiid happy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 17, 2020, 12:17:28 PM
Quote
The issue was really, as that BOS article alludes, that Ainge/Celts had some interest in Melo in previous years, but by the time Phil was trying to ride Melo out of town, BOS only had some residual interest left, and were moving on to other options.  The thing is Melo was attainable and FA is a crapshoot -- Celts didn't get PG13 or Butler, their main targets at the time -- so they had to think about it some.  But had largely moved on.

Bo-the point remains when you proposed this trade, it was DOA-dead on arrival.

IT HAD NO FUCKING CHANCE OF HAPPENING

you vastly over-valued Melo.

The Knicks weren't getting Brown & Rozier

The Knicks ended up trading him for (sorry Carlos) $20M of Enos Kanter and $5 M of McDermott and a 2nd round pick.

And they dumped Kanter and Doug the next year

and the Celts picked Enos up for cheap.

Melo was traded as part of a salary dump for salary dump swap.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 17, 2020, 12:35:46 PM
Kanter was good for us (23.1 PER)

And McD was dealt for Mudiay.

I guess we could have just kept Melo.  How would that have been?

Some guy named Robinson ended up ours from that deal as well.   Twasnt Nate.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 17, 2020, 12:39:33 PM
I've always liked Rubio; always liked Dragic.
Two guys I've tried to keep an eye on for years.
Always interested when either seemed available.

I was happy and excited to see Dragic back in old form in bubble play, zipping around and causing havoc.  When PHX had 3 PG's I was in favor of getting Bledsoe or Dragic , whichever PHX would part with (IT was the 3rd PG).  Oddly they got rid of all 3.  And went with Brandon Knight.  I don't think PHX knew what they were doing back then.

They probably should have kept Dragic to assist their new young SG Dev Book.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 17, 2020, 01:05:34 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 17, 2020, 10:26:29 AM
And from what I hear he was never dealing Brown.  Just where they selected him shows how high C's have been on Jaylen all along - and its silly that Bo states, "Jaylen wasnt playing" when trying to convince folks Brown was available.

Jaylen wasn't playing well.
Nov/Dec/Jan of his rook year = 40% FG & 30% on very few 3's. Not much of anything else.  (Jan 39% / 26%).
Jaylen was off to a shaky start, when I was trying to nab him before the trade deadline.  He played much better the 2nd half of the season.  Maybe Ainge knew what he had and wasn't trading him, but Jaylen had a tough adjustment period to kick off his career.  And they had Smart as their presumable long-term SG starter.
Title: Knicks Fantasy
Post by: chipstern on September 17, 2020, 02:56:07 PM
My idea of a Knicks-Celtics phantasmagorical phantasy is sixth man MARCUS SMART. 

Smart has improved EVERY YEAR as a Celtic. 

For instance, while he doesn't get to the FT line a lot, Smart went from a .646 as a rookie to .836 in 2019-2020. 

Rebounds and assists have also trended upwards, his dimes having ascended from 4.9 

Shoots more than half his jumpers from trey, so not a great percentage, but clutch. 

Mostly though, tough Tough TOUGH defender and in many ways the heart and soul of the Celtics. 

Somehow, I suspect that a package of _____________ and _____________ won't get it done. 

So many rumors out there, and some of the alleged trade proposals for Paul are simply ridiculous in terms of young players and draft picks. 

I'm back to not wanting to trade for CP3 unless is is purely salary cap filler going out. 

The rumor I am more in tune with is Knicks allegedly offering Van Vleet 22 million x 4 years.  Brogdon numbers. 

Yes, much of Van Vleet's success is system oriented, and he is only 6'1" but a good defender and a fierce, fearless competitor. 

Somehow, considering how much money the Raptors gave to Siakim, I don't see Van Vleet leaving. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 17, 2020, 03:04:42 PM
"Hey, Skip  - I think we are only 2 players away."


- "Yeah - Koufax and Mays!"
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 17, 2020, 03:06:08 PM
Draft:

I am warming up to R J Hampton.  Love his confidence.



“I was a projected Top 5 pick last year. I went overseas, I learned a lot, I didn’t have superior numbers and I was kind of forgotten about,” Hampton said in an interview with SNY. “The message that I was trying to get across is, ‘I’m still that same player. I’m still that player that can get you 20-25 points, 6-7 assists, be that lead guard and a franchise changer.’”

“There’s certain players that have talent that can’t play in New York. I feel like I’ve been under the bright lights all my life. I was under the brightest lights of them all last year; I took every criticism. … I was an 18-year-old that went overseas and averaged nine points a game. The average 18-year-old that averages nine points a game and people are critiquing (them), they might fold. “With the Knicks, they know I’m a competitor, they know I’m willing to get better and I think they know I can handle the bright lights of New York City. “A lot of it is just a mindset. You have to have that mindset if you want to play for New York City. You can’t come in there being soft, you can’t come in there wanting anything handed to you. And that’s never how I’ve had it. Obviously, I’m going to have some ups and downs and learn and be a rookie and make some mistakes. But the mindset is you’ve got to go to New York and want to be hungry and a winner.”
Title: Knicks Payroll
Post by: chipstern on September 17, 2020, 03:25:18 PM
2019/20

Knicks Team Payroll: $110,374,031

2019/20

Team Payroll Rank: 30

And that's with the $41 Million in team options on Ellington, Payton, Gibson and Portis, plus Harkless, still on the books. 

All dressed up and anywhere to go?

It would seem, unless the Knicks make a big splash this season, that they will be set up to make moves in 2021, with Randle's option coming due, assuming they have not traded him, a la Morris....likewise Portis, who makes sense (To ME anyway) at $15 Million as our stretch 4 back-up center into the season, wherein, if he shines, could also be attractive to a contender, a la Morris. 

I am aware that Rose wants to make a splash, and Thibs won't go the Fizzle Out route, but I pray Leon is judicious and Thibs is patient.  We have gone the PLAYER DEVELOPMENT ROUTE in our assistant/associate coach staffing.  PATIENCE, butterflies, patience.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 17, 2020, 03:33:30 PM
I like him enough but I just don't see Portis remaining with this team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 17, 2020, 03:40:31 PM
Robinson-Randle-Taj (or replacement)

Brazdekis
DRAFTED PLAYER

Knox/(Bullock)
(Harkless - reduced pay)

Barrett
DRAFTED PLAYER

Payton-Dennis-Frank

12 - plus Mo if kept

*I am sure I forgot someone - always do
Title: Pelican you believe this?
Post by: Kam on September 17, 2020, 04:08:05 PM
Someone is suggesting the Pels send JJ Reddick to NY (because thibs wants Vets and Rose wants shooters around RJ and Mitch) for Kevin Knox and his... DEFENSE?!

When fully engaged, Knox is potentially a devastating defender on the wing. He’s strong at the point of attack and flashes the ability to force ball-handlers into poor decisions. He’s an intriguing option to fill the Pelicans void for a rotation wing.

I think that it’s less likely Knox reaches his lofty ceiling offensively but working with the Pelicans staff that improved Lonzo Ball’s jumper, I’d see Knox as the Pelicans own Jae Crowder.

 https://pelicandebrief.com/2020/09/16/new-orleans-pelicans-trade-new-york/ (https://pelicandebrief.com/2020/09/16/new-orleans-pelicans-trade-new-york/)
Title: Uncertainty
Post by: chipstern on September 17, 2020, 04:28:43 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 17, 2020, 03:33:30 PM
I like him enough but I just don't see Portis remaining with this team.

Agree. 

Again, it will be interesting to see how Thibs comes out of this week's one on one encounters, and the next two weeks' collective scrums. 

For all his weaknesses on the defensive end, I persist in viewing Portis's long range shooting as a skillset we sorely need.

My hope would be to keep Portis and Bullock (both of whom could be dangled at the trade deadline), to somehow work out a cheaper contract (an MCE) for Gibson to return on, and to shit or get off the pot regarding Randle.  Can Thibs reach him and find a more efficient, sensible way to nurture the things he CAN DO, as opposed to the ludicrous manner in which he was deployed as a point forward/ballhandler last season.  Not sure his game is a good fit for us unless we cab develop an efficient, reliable facilitator at the rudder.  Smith, Ntilikiina...Payton, Harper?  Free agency draft? 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 17, 2020, 04:33:26 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 17, 2020, 03:40:31 PM
Robinson-Randle-Taj (or replacement)

Brazdekis
DRAFTED PLAYER

Knox/(Bullock)
(Harkless - reduced pay)

Barrett
DRAFTED PLAYER

Payton-Dennis-Frank

12 - plus Mo if kept

*I am sure I forgot someone - always do

Not sure I see Payton, Harkless, Gibson coming back.  Maybe Gibson for his mentorship. 

Payton is a good, though offensively limited point, but I think he ate into minutes that Ntilikina and Smith needed to see.  One of them is out of here. 
Title: Fantasy Land
Post by: Kam on September 17, 2020, 09:37:10 PM
https://dailyknicks.com/2020/09/17/ny-knicks-projecting-roster-chris-paul-fred-vanvleet/ (https://dailyknicks.com/2020/09/17/ny-knicks-projecting-roster-chris-paul-fred-vanvleet/)

pg: CP3
sg: FVV
sf: RJB
pf: OBI
cc: MR


goners: Randle, Ntilikina, Knox, Portis, Gibson, Ellington, Payton, Theo Pinson
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 17, 2020, 09:44:19 PM
Dragic = Gail Goodrich

Awaiting Bank's Tatum assessment
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 17, 2020, 09:46:14 PM
I'm fucking disgusted-I haven't been this pissed at the Cetls in a long time

that 3rd qtr was the a complete shit-show and total loss of composure.

Total melt-down.

and the Heat totally took advantage

Brad owns a big chunk of this
Title: Re: Fantasy Land
Post by: carlos123 on September 17, 2020, 09:51:52 PM
Quote from: Kam on September 17, 2020, 09:37:10 PM
https://dailyknicks.com/2020/09/17/ny-knicks-projecting-roster-chris-paul-fred-vanvleet/ (https://dailyknicks.com/2020/09/17/ny-knicks-projecting-roster-chris-paul-fred-vanvleet/)

pg: CP3
sg: FVV
sf: RJB
pf: OBI
cc: MR


goners: Randle, Ntilikina, Knox, Portis, Gibson, Ellington, Payton, Theo Pinson

Ok Kamster. Now that you showed us your fantasy, would you PLEASE restore your salads in Dallas siggy, that would be my fantasy for now.

PS. Bank, sorry about today. Another close one. Hope you can still beat them at the end.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 17, 2020, 09:56:36 PM
Quote
Awaiting Bank's Tatum assessment

I think it was a team loss and a coaching loss.

The Celts planted the seeds for this loss with their sloppy close to the 2nd qtr.

And the Heat harvested the Celts immaturity.

They got outplayed and outcoached tonight.
Title: Padre Riles
Post by: chipstern on September 17, 2020, 09:59:06 PM
By default, Miami has been my team in the playoffs. 

Pat Riley understands WINNING HOOPS. 

Fierce defense, motion and ball movement, knock down shooters....draft players who fit your system. 

Fuck ME. 

Did I mention shoothing.  My GOD, but they can SHOOT. 

And Coach Splo, buried the Celtics with his Zone Coverage in the second half, coming back from -17 down. 

Great team spirit. 

Did I say team.

Exhibit W?  Jimmy Butler. 

Exhibit L?  Paul George. 

MAN, would I ever love to see a Miami-Denver FINALS.

PS: GORAN DRAGIC, people....

Title: Re: Fantasy Land
Post by: bankshot1 on September 17, 2020, 10:12:30 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on September 17, 2020, 09:51:52 PM
Quote from: Kam on September 17, 2020, 09:37:10 PM
https://dailyknicks.com/2020/09/17/ny-knicks-projecting-roster-chris-paul-fred-vanvleet/ (https://dailyknicks.com/2020/09/17/ny-knicks-projecting-roster-chris-paul-fred-vanvleet/)

pg: CP3
sg: FVV
sf: RJB
pf: OBI
cc: MR


goners: Randle, Ntilikina, Knox, Portis, Gibson, Ellington, Payton, Theo Pinson

Ok Kamster. Now that you showed us your fantasy, would you PLEASE restore your salads in Dallas siggy, that would be my fantasy for now.

PS. Bank, sorry about today. Another close one. Hope you can still beat them at the end.

There have been so few games like this over the past few years, it looked like they just didn't play hard and smart. And they got abused.

They just imploded in the 3rd qtr.
Title: Another fantasy
Post by: carlos123 on September 18, 2020, 12:12:51 AM
Bank, just look at it this way:

I wish we were in the EC finals and being abused by Miami.

Feel better now?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 18, 2020, 09:26:25 AM
Celtics locker room turmoil?

https://hoopshype.com/rumors/

Come on, Brad - get your ship together.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on September 18, 2020, 10:02:04 AM
Yes Brad's got his work to do, but to me, the series so far is less about Celtic failure — honestly, there's been a couple buckets that got friendly bounces that could have altered the outcomes — than the Heat's top down bottom up commitment to winning and excellence. The perfect fit for Butler, an extraordinary star who doesn't need a point to be happy and outworks everyone else on the court.
Title: Re: Another fantasy
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 18, 2020, 10:18:21 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on September 18, 2020, 12:12:51 AM
Bank, just look at it this way:

I wish we were in the EC finals and being abused by Miami.

Feel better now?

Knick fans were never appreciative during the "so close" years.

They deserve what they get.
Title: Re: Another fantasy
Post by: chipstern on September 18, 2020, 10:42:54 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 18, 2020, 10:18:21 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on September 18, 2020, 12:12:51 AM
Bank, just look at it this way:

I wish we were in the EC finals and being abused by Miami.

Feel better now?

Knick fans were never appreciative during the "so close" years.

They deserve what they get.

What the fuck are you posturing about? 

Art thou the only fan with integrity. 

Not

TRUE

At

ALL

Dearly Loved Riley's Finalists.

And the 1999 Over Achievers.

Trouble is, since Larry Johnson finally went OUCH, we have bounced around in a schizoid gala of quick fixes and desperate dunce capery. 

We had some teams on the brink over the past 20 years, but a pathetic binge of divestments in the LeBron outreach, trading David Lee, dumping Zach Randolph, gutting a young on the rise team surrounding Amare in the Melo trade. 

Loved when we had Rasheed Wallace and Kurt Thomas and Jason Kidd. 

So, later for that weak cheese about how we didn't deserve them 
Title: Re: Another fantasy
Post by: bankshot1 on September 18, 2020, 10:56:33 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on September 18, 2020, 12:12:51 AM
Bank, just look at it this way:

I wish we were in the EC finals and being abused by Miami.

Feel better now?

Not really Carlos-I don't like to lose, but if "you" or your team loses playing their best, I can deal with it.

But I really don't like undisciplined play, particularly from a team that plays with a lot of discipline. They melted down last night in the 3rd qtr and I really don't know why. And I'm not going to go through the pain of watching that bullshit again to figure it out.  These guys have all played against a Xone D, it was like they've never seen one before. I was posting elsewhere that I didn't like the la-di-da attitude they played with to end the 2nd qtr and it carried over and multiplied in the 3rd. This sucking in the 3rd qtr is a real problem.

Brad, as best as I can tell, wants his guys to figure it out on their own, and play through it, But sometimes he needs to be more proactive and help his guys. Even if it means getting pissed (and there were opportunities last night for a Brad temper tantrum T moment to show his guys he was pissed and had their back).

that bullshit Theis jump ball clock reset-WTF was that- it led to 4 Heat points and was pure bullshit-Brad should have lost his fucking mind on that bullshit call. 

I think the Celts playing smart hoops can get them back in this thing, but losing two games that were both winnable, and should have been won, will always sucks.

And good on Marcus for venting-it was overdue.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 18, 2020, 11:21:06 AM
Trouble is, since Larry Johnson finally went OUCH, we have bounced around in a schizoid gala of quick fixes and desperate dunce capery.



You DENY the constant criticism of coaching/GM/certain players prior to this?  Even the critique of Ewing was over the top.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 18, 2020, 11:23:20 AM
But I really don't like undisciplined play, particularly from a team that plays with a lot of discipline. They melted down last night in the 3rd qtr and I really don't know why.


Zero credit to Heat.  Typical.

You OVERRATE your team with your, "no way we should lose to a team like that" stance.
Title: Padre Riles & Erik Spoelstra
Post by: chipstern on September 18, 2020, 11:26:36 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on September 18, 2020, 10:02:04 AM
Yes Brad's got his work to do, but to me, the series so far is less about Celtic failure — honestly, there's been a couple buckets that got friendly bounces that could have altered the outcomes — than the Heat's top down bottom up commitment to winning and excellence. The perfect fit for Butler, an extraordinary star who doesn't need a point to be happy and outworks everyone else on the court.

Thank you. 

LOVE the Heat team culture and unselfish style of play.  Savage team defense and calculated ball sharing and purposeful picks and movement and motion and finding the open man.   

Picked Philly's pocket in the Butler Trade.

Cashed in Michael Kidd Gilchrist 2.0 [the fine defender, horrific shooter, oft injured Justise Winslow], maxing his trade value in coming off of a good 2018-19 season and yet another injury, for veteran defensive ace/champion Andre Iguodala and .445 3Pt % shooter and tough ass defender Jae Crowder (who along with .401 3PT % center Kelly Olynyk, was jettisoned by the Celtics in their pursuit of Kyre Irving. 

Goran DRAGIC's second childhood.  BAM BAM, a modern depiction of the 5, raising his game to new levels. 

Oh, and drafting wisely, finding diamonds in the rough, committed player development and assembling a team ideally suited to play the modern NBA game. 

Knicks maybe the worst outside shooting team in the league?

Checking out the Heat's three point percentages is MIND BOGGLING. 

Team Leader Jimmy Butler during the regular season was NOT a good three point shooter, but was good for 20-7-6 and consistently penetrated and got to the line, converting an impressive 438-525, for a .834%, a trend that continues through the playoffs, where he HAS CAUGHT THE HEAT'S CONTAGIOUS THREE POINT GIDDYNESS. 

3Pt Shooting Anyone? 

Goran Dragic: .367%

Kelly Olynyk: 404%

Meyers Leonard: .414%

Kendrick Nunn: .350%

Tyler Herro: .389%   

Duncan Robinson: .446%

Jae Crowder: .445%

I mean, I dig the Celtics, but from top to bottom the Heat appear to simply be a better team. 

And looking to hang any of these losses on Brad Stevens, or play the blame game of pin the tail on the donkey with the Boston squad seems, well....the Celtics have been in both games, the back and forth has been dramatic and inspiring, but in a playoff series full of runs and counters, the Heat just seem to have an extra gear. 

A winning culture, forged through leadership from top to bottom, beginning with Pat Riley, on through the very underrated Coach Erik Spoelstra...how long have both been in Miami? 

What do winning cultures such as the Heat and the Spurs have in common? 

C
O
N
T
I
N
U
I
T
Y


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 18, 2020, 11:33:14 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 18, 2020, 11:21:06 AM
Trouble is, since Larry Johnson finally went OUCH, we have bounced around in a schizoid gala of quick fixes and desperate dunce capery.



You DENY the constant criticism of coaching/GM/certain players prior to this?  Even the critique of Ewing was over the top.

You attributing this to the fans?

NO SALE. 

We had a Chief Operating Officer name of Dave Checketts, who once famously drove Mark Messier out of town with the brilliant quip, "How long are we supposed to pay for a Stanley Cup"  UNTIL HELL FREEZES OVER YOU MORMON DOUCHE.  He also allowed Riley to bolt. 

Checketts famously engineered the Ewing Trade Debacle, which basically set us upon the road to perdition. 

And to assert that ALL UNGRATEFUL KNICKS FANS were complicit in the ridiculous carping about how Ewing never won, blahblahblah, is a gross distortion of reality, and once again, would seem to position you as the last honest true blue Knicks fan.

Your premise is a straw dog. 

I will give you this, though....

One of the most disgraceful moments in NYC Media History, again, fueled by fucking Checketts, was when the awful Ewing Trade went down, seriously compromised by Checketts leaking the particulars to his buddies in the press, which led to a less advantageous deal....

I believe it was the right wing NY POST whose banner headline read: GOOD RIDDANCE. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 18, 2020, 11:41:45 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 18, 2020, 11:23:20 AM
But I really don't like undisciplined play, particularly from a team that plays with a lot of discipline. They melted down last night in the 3rd qtr and I really don't know why.


Zero credit to Heat.  Typical.

You OVERRATE your team with your, "no way we should lose to a team like that" stance.

Kid-I respect and credited the Heat-and have not disrespected them once. They've played great.

AS I TOLD YOU LAST NIGHT THE HEAT OUTPLAYED AND OUTCOACHED THE CELTS.

But the Celtics have also played just poorly enough to lose 2 close games.

My point was the about the Celts and losing a 14 point 4th qtr lead in G1 and a 17 point lead last night. Good teams playing smart disciplined basketball don't typically do that. They need to do a better job of closing out out atrs, halves and games.

As to my overating the Celts, they're one of 4 teams left in the NBA, and are fighting for a championship.

And were favored to win this series.

And as I recall, and as we've discussed on numerous chats, you consistently under-rate them and their players.

Typical.

heh

I think they can play much better than they have in the the first two games.




Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 18, 2020, 11:44:21 AM
What do winning cultures such as the Heat and the Spurs have in common?

C
O
N
T
I
N
U
I
T
Y


Yeah - gotta find the right guy first

I think we have with Thibs - every reason to believe so.

I thought we had with Dantoni

We had with Pitino

And of course Pat and Jeff eventually left us.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 18, 2020, 01:56:47 PM
So are we taking Harden if we get to keep Mitchell? 
Barrett+++ including this year's #8 overall but we get HOU's first #1 as well

How about for Russ?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 18, 2020, 02:45:55 PM
huh?
Russbrook not a winner  …

Neither is Portis who makes lots of bad decisions.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 18, 2020, 05:44:10 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 18, 2020, 02:45:55 PM
huh?
Russbrook not a winner  …

Neither is Portis who makes lots of bad decisions.

Lordy.

Keep your day job. 
Title: Phantasy Camp
Post by: chipstern on September 18, 2020, 06:19:01 PM
Every day on my GOOGLE Feeds, there are rumors...

Well, actually clickbait blogger conjecture and phantasmagorical projections, more the product of shut-in wishing ain't fishing than reality. 

Here is an interesting one. 

Julius Randle & Elfrid Payton for KEVIN LOVE. 

Okay. 

Now I really dig Kevin Love. 

A prototypical stretch 4, who can board and facilitate and drain the 3-Ball. 

However....while he would make for a better fit than Randle....

*Just turned 32 years old. 

* In his final season with Minnesota, he drained 520-633 FTs for a  821 %.  Since then, while his percentage has increased, his number of attempts has decreased significantly.

* Has been beset by injuries the past four season with the Cavs, playing 60-59-22-56 [putting up 17.6-9.8-3.2 while converting 140-390 treys for a solid .374%, in keeping with his consistent career rate].

* He has game but he also has a very serious contract, due $31,258,256...31,258,256...28,942,830 through 2023. 

Seems like a side move to me, although one cannot fault his career numbers.  He competes and is a skilled player and a positive presence. 

No, he is not perfect. 

Randle and Peyton would give Cleveland some depth, talent and cap relief. 

Us?

If the Cavs tossed in this year's #1 pick, I might consider it. 

Then again....

Nah.  I would hope our predilection for big names, big contract, end of their career mirages has passed. 

Establish a system and continuity, and remain patient with our youth. 

Your thoughts?

PS: BoD apparently only endorses players who are dead perfect.  Russell Westbrook is incredibly competitive,  Bobby Portis is a skilled stretch 4-backup 5.

PPS: Can I think of better options?  Yes I can.  But Bo conveniently overlooks how much better Portis was playing with more consistent minutes down the stretch, after Morris had been traded.  WHAT THEN, ARE OUR VIABLE OPTIONS to replace Bobby moving into 2020-2021?  Oh, wait, I know....JAYLEN BROWN and Terry Rozier.  My bad. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 18, 2020, 06:22:38 PM
Let's not trade for anyone over 30.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 18, 2020, 06:35:40 PM
Quote from: Kam on September 18, 2020, 06:22:38 PM
Let's not trade for anyone over 30.

Thank you. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 18, 2020, 07:47:54 PM
 :Thoughts on Love?

Always wanted to see him here eventually

Always hearing how they don't want to trade him, except from the peanut gallery.
Title: White Power Chamaco
Post by: carlos123 on September 18, 2020, 10:00:17 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on September 18, 2020, 07:47:54 PM
:Thoughts on Love?

Always wanted to see him here eventually

Always hearing how they don't want to trade him, except from the peanut gallery.

We know, Chamaco.

You always wanted “white shooters”.

Kevin is a nice player, also an old softie.

RBG gone. God help us! Who are Trumptin/McConnell going to shove down our throats, Ted Cruz?
Title: Footnote[Carmelo 3.2)
Post by: chipstern on September 19, 2020, 01:55:47 AM
Rajon Rondo [34 years old]

2019-2020

$2.5 Million

2020-2021

$2.6 Million [Player Option]

Chris Paul [35 years old]

2019-2020

$38.5 Million

2020-2021

$41.3 Million

2021-2022

$44.2 million

Yes, by all means, let's gut out team and trade Randle and Ntilikina and Knox and multiple #1 picks for an aged Point Guard. 

We could have made a run at Rondo multiple times these past few years. 

When the Milwaukee Bucks traded for Oscar Robertson, the Cincinnati Royals, with overtones of ingratitude and racism, basically dumped him for a meager return. 

The Big O was heading to Milwaukee to join a young Kareem Abdul Jabbar.  He was the final piece in a team wanting but for a rudder, a take charge guy. 

Gutting our team to get Paul?  Flushing assets down the toilet? Going all in, and eating up more than half of our cap space to get a difference maker on a woefully incomplete team.  WHO EXACTLY WILL REMAIN FOR PAUL TO MENTOR? 

I love Chris Paul. 

But this what we did with Carmelo, trading all of our team for a difference maker player, who wanted ALL OF HIS MONEY OUT FRONT, leaving him with NOBODY TO FUCKING PLAY WITH. 

I love Chris Paul. 

But unless we are getting him for salary filler, and not surrendering #1 picks, this is a suck ass move. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 19, 2020, 04:08:12 AM
Of the names battered around of big name pts, I prefer Conely, then Paul, then Westbrook.

Paul and Russ are on the same salary scale with Westbrook’s deal blossoming over another year into his player option for north of 47 million.

Conely has one and a player option at 29 this year and 34 next.

He’s in that crafty Vet stratosphere, might be available for the salary savings, and leaves us room for other moves.

Randle and DSJ for Conely and Ed Davis. No picks either way.

Im happy with Payton and Bullock at current money. I hope Taj would take a lesser deal, possibly with another year tacked on. Bobby and Wayne I’d let go. I’d promote Wooten who’s game is Thibs friendly.

That 11, which gives you spots for 3 draft picks and one more productive vet.

Mitch Davis
Taj Knox Wooten
Bullock Ignas
RJ
Conely Frank Payton

I’d focus on Deni, Vassell, or Okoro with the 8 and look for a big with at least one of the other picks.

Thibs would have a decent roster for year 1.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 19, 2020, 04:45:23 AM
Do the Knix ever even look for two-way players?
Are we allowed to have a 3&D guy?
Closest we have is Bullocks.  Who's an okay journeyman and seems like a good guy.
Could be due for a bounce back year.  But he's really a reserve.

At closer to $8M (or less), I can accept Portis coming in off the bench with energy, bombing away and making mistakes.

Knix have the worst guards and worst shooting G's in the League.

Kevin Love ... there's a brilliant idea ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 19, 2020, 07:17:19 AM
Gutting our team to get Paul?  Flushing assets down the toilet? Going all in, and eating up more than half of our cap space to get a difference maker on a woefully incomplete team.  WHO EXACTLY WILL REMAIN FOR PAUL TO MENTOR?


Cap space used on production is always good

Have to get over 40 wins before players start flocking here again

With Paul and Thibodeaux I like our chances of this.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 19, 2020, 07:23:47 AM
I love Chris Paul.

But unless we are getting him for salary filler, and not surrendering #1 picks, this is a suck ass move



In a little while you will be able to ask Ainge what it is like to gathers picks and never use them

Not giving the #8 for Paul.  Other picks?  Sure.

Knicks credibility ----------->
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 19, 2020, 07:59:38 AM
Why would Chris Paul want to get stuck on these Knickerbockers?
Guy wants to win and play meaningful playoff games as his career winds down, not babysit  dysfunctional franchise full of flawed pieces.  Maybe in 3 or 4 years, he could doa  Jason Kidd and play a final year mentoring whatever we got, but he's still actually a genuine player who wouldn't want his career to die here.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 19, 2020, 10:26:09 AM
Paul only has a choice if we want to extend him.

I dont think this is the current concern

Chip is right - its not great value - which is why Leon will back burner Paul.

But its on the POSSIBLE docket.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 19, 2020, 10:27:59 AM
My "this may not happen" thinking is that I want Randle to be here with Paul - and they might need to send that salary back.  Though using some of our cap space for CP works as well if Julius is kept
Title: Hey Bank
Post by: carlos123 on September 19, 2020, 11:56:31 PM
Waiting for you to say something.
You made it too tough at the end but finally made it.
Congrats 🍾
Title: Re: Hey Bank
Post by: bankshot1 on September 20, 2020, 01:14:29 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on September 19, 2020, 11:56:31 PM
Waiting for you to say something.
You made it too tough at the end but finally made it.
Congrats 🍾

Thanks Carlos

I thought they played a better game, attacked the Heat early on, controlled the paint, and controlled the game. They got sloppy in the 4th quarter, and the Heat chipped away, they're fucking relentless. I was about to throw my bottle of Don Julio Reposado through the TV, but I had another drink instead. And Marcus made his free-throws.

Alls well that ends well.

Nice to see Gordo back on the court, although his stats weren't overflowing, his minutes and basketball IQ and D helped alot. 

if he's good to go for about 25-30 quality minutes a night that changes things a lot in how they can attack and gives the Heat some problems on D.

I think we've got a series.

Title: WOW!!!
Post by: carlos123 on September 20, 2020, 10:11:15 PM
What a game!
And what a monster game by both Davis and Jokic!!!

PS. Lakers won, but couda gone either way.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 20, 2020, 11:42:45 PM
I don't like LeBron deferring.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 21, 2020, 02:09:48 PM
LeBj made the right read.  DEN was packing the paint on LBJ drives, and he had gotten a charge on a pass off a little earlier.  So LeBJ sucked in the D and and then kicked to open perimeter guys.

Quite a stretch run for Jokic.
Not sure what Plumlee was up to on the final play, dropping down to LBJ and signalling for Grant to flash out to AD.  I guess Plum realized he's too slow to get there, but jeez that was useless D.  And you should always be prepared for your man to run towards the ball.  I assume he was overly concerned about Davis running to the rim. 

Turned out to be a terrific game after a 1st half slog.

Quite a move from Malone to go with PJ Doze for extended 4Q minutes after Gray Harris was off all night.  Dozier played terrific, only he missed 4 of 5 FT's.  A real killer. 

Similarly, Caruso had a stellar game for LAL, with Vogel granting him 29 mins.
Lakes hit a pair of 2nd half 3's with the shot cock expiring which hurt DEN.

Seemed like all game DEN was moving the ball well, but passing up shots.  Which often put them deep in the shot clock without much going on.  Nugs needed to be more decisive and get shots up when they have them.
Title: Saquon Barkley
Post by: chipstern on September 21, 2020, 04:33:06 PM
Broke my heart. 

Such a great talent and positive person. 

He and Daniel Jones were my motivation for watching these Giants. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 21, 2020, 07:17:02 PM
heh
Title: Again?
Post by: carlos123 on September 21, 2020, 08:17:54 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 21, 2020, 07:17:02 PM
heh

Chamaco, you repeat yourself a lot.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3cQYLdBqU6M75LC1XDRs3rrgSnm9ojknoi6ZvPuegxc-55VQI_0YKlROaHs6Mw9RwGLTLKA7zNvp3O6zBWsg5Ic0Zu15G14sx_97DWdzGfaPTocHWahD2QbqfVFI2hZK8me3jLmc7jOf1A4fK-VgJSO=w292-h548-no?authuser=0)
Mi nombre es Chamaco heh Cartero, y me repito mucho.
Title: Turds Are Us?
Post by: chipstern on September 21, 2020, 09:22:32 PM
Correct me if I am wrong, but is "heh" your response to a young man popping his ACL? 

In the event that such is the case? 

There are no words.... 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 21, 2020, 09:58:44 PM
Nope

Huge Barkley fan.

But Giants have other talent.  Thus your comment was amusing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 22, 2020, 12:05:23 AM
Is D.J. Augustin on the Knicks radar? 
Title: Really?
Post by: carlos123 on September 22, 2020, 12:38:13 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 21, 2020, 09:58:44 PM
Nope

Huge Barkley fan.

But Giants have other talent.  Thus your comment was amusing.

Thus your go to comment shoulda been lol, not heh.

Chamaco Incoherente Cartero.
Title: Re: Saquon Barkley
Post by: Kam on September 22, 2020, 02:27:05 AM
Quote from: chipstern on September 21, 2020, 04:33:06 PM
Broke my heart. 

Such a great talent and positive person. 

He and Daniel Jones were my motivation for watching these Giants.

Saquon going down hurt, and i'm sorry for the young man.
But it isn't as if Giants were churning out positive plays handing him the ball.
Jones short passing game is very good and spreading the ball around makes the offense much less predictable.
I don't know why, with defenses so keyed on Barkley, the Giants didn't throw MORE and use the defense's aggressive run stopping formations against them.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 22, 2020, 10:18:22 AM
DION LEWIS era?

We'll see Sunday.

Though help appears on the way

https://sports.yahoo.com/giants-devonta-freeman-101102138.html
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 22, 2020, 12:53:45 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 22, 2020, 12:05:23 AM
Is D.J. Augustin on the Knicks radar?



????
Title: Rumors
Post by: chipstern on September 22, 2020, 06:46:06 PM
Bogdan Bogdanovic: 6'6"

Buddy Hield: 6'4" 

HoopsHYpe, your one stop shopping strip mall for news, rumors and conjecture, had some postings on these Sacramento Kings. 

BB a restricted free agent. 

This reporting indicated that Bogdanovich is curious and Buddy Hield is furious, as in I WANT TO START. 

Hield's next four years come in at $25, 23, 21 and 18 million. 

The CONJECTURE revolves around how do the Kings budget enough money to reup Marvin Bagley and DeAndre Fox if they are paying Hield starters money and looking to re-up Bogdanovic.

Both are 28 and in their prime. 

176   408   .431   

278   651   .427

271   688   .394   

Don't know that Hield is a draft oicks + expiring contracts option

But holy fuck, can he ever shoot the trey.  The above high usage numbers are from the last three seasons, and I have a distinct memory of Hield nuking us during one Knicks-Kings encounter. 

On the flip side, the scouting report on the 6'6" BB is of a multidimensional wing with facilitator skills who can man the 2-1-3, play defense and shootShootSHOOT.  Not quite at the unconscious level of a Hield, but on a team where the ball is being shared more readily than the talented Fox?

The money we will save by NOT GIVING Chris Paul $41 and 44 million for the next two seasons would be available to minimally offer Bogdonavich Timmy Hardaway money, which is likely what it will take. 

Kiid's assorted vocabulary of hehs and ?????s notwithstanding, there was a report on line which indicated that DJ Augustin was on the Knicks' radar, and as a career reserve PG who while on the diminutive side at 5'11" and defensively challenged, can get to the rack, convert his FTs at a high percentage (a career .865%), and the past four years with Orlando converted 3-poionters at a .347, .419, 421 and .348 clip.

More significantly, he is an unrestricted FA who was paid Payton money last season, and is credited with being a good mentor to Brother Fultz. 

Yes, we have had middling results with the likes of Ramon Sessions, Jarrett Jack and Elfrid Payton. 

But i get the distinct impression, that unlike Dimwit Hornacek's usage of Jack at the expense of Ntilikina's development, that this season French Frank is going to see meaningful minutes at the 2-1-3 spots and that Coaches Thibs and Bryant are going to be all in on getting into Dennis Smith's head, and back to how he was playing in the third of a season immediately after we first got him here.

All of which depends interdependent talent. 

Dennis Smith's ability to get to the rack and facilitate would surely benefit from the presence that dangerous shooters and three point threats, which at present are limited to Bullock and the largely unproven Brazdeikis and Knox, would offer in the way of wiggle room, not unlike how Barrett would benefit from someone who could consistently break down the defense and create cutting lanes. 

Free Agents and Draft Picks will likewise create a domino effect as far as final personnel decisions. 

The draft being in November, and the season unlikely to kick off until January. 

Yikes. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 22, 2020, 06:52:32 PM
Dealing Frank and not reupping Payton leaves us with just one PG, thus - I guess - the Auggustin possible.

Whatev....

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 22, 2020, 08:12:42 PM
By the way - do not discount Barrett as a 3 point shooter - 3.5 attempts per game a game at a 32% clip
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 22, 2020, 11:10:39 PM
I’d like to come away from the draft with Deni and Tyler Bey. Mitch Deni Bey RJ and Frank would be a hell of a defensive and fast break team with multiple options for offensive focus. You’ve got 3 freak athletes with great instincts in Mitch Bey and Frank and two gritty grimy guys to hold it together in Deni and RJ.

If it comes to a Lakers - Heat finals, I’ll be rooting for Riley.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 23, 2020, 12:42:46 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 22, 2020, 08:12:42 PM
By the way - do not discount Barrett as a 3 point shooter - 3.5 attempts per game a game at a 32% clip

His form isn't good.   And most of his attempts are open as guys go under screens or leave him alone as they scramble on D.

I'd have to check but my impression is RJB had a handful of games where he was hot from deep and the vast majority where he clanked.  Would certainly be nice if he could get up to 35% or become fairly reliable from deep.   Would help his driving game.

Lotta the wings from that draft shot poorly from deep.   Reddish, Hunter I think too,  somebody else ...

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 23, 2020, 12:54:28 AM
I don't know how it works this year but I would like to see who we draft before we sign anyone.  Most years the draft is a week or so before the start of free agency.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 23, 2020, 08:19:25 AM
R J was 13th in 3 pt percentage from that draft - of players who played 1000 minutes

Just 8 guys at 35% plus.



Cam Johnson  .390
Tyler Herro    .389
P J Washington    .374

Brandon Clarke      .359
Mattise Thybule     .357
DeAndre Hunter    .355

Darius Garland    .355
Coby White      .354

-----------------------------

Darius Bazley     .348
Ja Morant      .335
Kevin Porter      .335

Cam Reddish     .332
R J Barrett     .320


Lower:     Culver, Hachimura, Paschall, Hayes, Poole, G Williams






Yes, its correct to say that 35% is a proper goal for Barrett  As is getting up to 1.5 makes per game (from 1.1).   Likely won't be this year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 23, 2020, 09:20:58 AM
Yeah, Culver is who I was thinking of not Hunter.
Was using my phone and was not convenient to search basketball ref that way.
Hunter has looked like a legit 3&D wing.

I was surprised for a league so ensconced in 3-point shooting and enamored of stretch 4's & 5's that the last draft featured lots of guys without range.
Title: Tyler Herro
Post by: chipstern on September 23, 2020, 10:51:27 PM
Good Lord.

Herro looks like the second coming of Drazen Petrovic
Title: Yet Another Jerk Off Trade Fantasy
Post by: chipstern on September 23, 2020, 11:14:47 PM
Any Interesting Headline And You Think You Are Getting Actual Inside Intelligence...

When It Is Only Some Blogger/Freelancer's Wet Dream. 

This one was made to sound like the inside poop.

Well, in any event, it is POOP.

Bleacher Report's Jonathan Wasserman suggests....

The Warriors trade the #2 pick to the Knicks for the #8 pick, the #27 pick, the Dallas 2021 #1 pick and Frank Ntilikina. 

The Knicks select [this one goes out to Kiid], LaMello Ball, and the Warriors select Devin Vassell. 

If I am the Warriors?

I do this trade in a heartbeat.

If I am the Knicks

I tell Jonathan Wasserman to go fuck himself, but on the way out, thanks for the brain storm, make BoD happy, by drafting 3&D SF sharpshooter Vassell for Coach Thibs
.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 23, 2020, 11:28:04 PM
Fucking Herro ball killed the Cetls tonight

that and fucking turnovers.

sloppy ball for mosr of the night

Better and more disciplined team won tonight
Title: Sorry Bank
Post by: carlos123 on September 23, 2020, 11:36:20 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on September 23, 2020, 11:28:04 PM
Fucking Herro ball killed the Cetls tonight

that and fucking turnovers.

sloppy ball for mosr of the night

Better and more disciplined team won tonight

FWIW, my Mets also lost today and are virtually eliminated from the post season.

There’s always next year.

Maybe you guys can still bounce back?

Do you remember Drazen Petrovic? That’s who Herro was playing like this evening.

Oops, Chip said it first, which makes it even more true.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 23, 2020, 11:37:43 PM
The Warriors trade the #2 pick to the Knicks for the #8 pick, the #27 pick, the Dallas 2021 #1 pick and Frank Ntilikina.


I pass if I am Golden State
Title: Re: Tyler Herro
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 23, 2020, 11:43:21 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 23, 2020, 10:51:27 PM
Good Lord.

Herro looks like the second coming of Drazen Petrovic

Real good fun tonight

Ainge just couldnt pull that trigger on the trade up for TH.  Killing him.
Title: Re: Sorry Bank
Post by: bankshot1 on September 23, 2020, 11:44:05 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on September 23, 2020, 11:36:20 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on September 23, 2020, 11:28:04 PM
Fucking Herro ball killed the Cetls tonight

that and fucking turnovers.

sloppy ball for mosr of the night

Better and more disciplined team won tonight

FWIW, my Mets also lost today and are virtually eliminated from the post season.

There’s always next year.

Maybe you guys can still bounce back?

Do you remember Drazen Petrovic? That’s who Herro was playing like this evening.

Oops, Chip said it first, which makes it even more true.

Not over yet Carlos.

the Celts are only mostly dead.

They could use Miracle Max off the bench
Title: Re: Sorry Bank
Post by: bankshot1 on September 23, 2020, 11:56:03 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on September 23, 2020, 11:44:05 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on September 23, 2020, 11:36:20 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on September 23, 2020, 11:28:04 PM
Fucking Herro ball killed the Cetls tonight

that and fucking turnovers.

sloppy ball for mosr of the night

Better and more disciplined team won tonight

FWIW, my Mets also lost today and are virtually eliminated from the post season.

There’s always next year.

Maybe you guys can still bounce back?

Do you remember Drazen Petrovic? That’s who Herro was playing like this evening.

Oops, Chip said it first, which makes it even more true.

Not over yet Carlos.

the Celts are only mostly dead.

They could use Miracle Max off the bench

and maybe keep Herro under 30

JFC

kid's been great

he has a normal night Celts win even with their sloppy play,
Title: Re: Sorry Bank
Post by: josh on September 24, 2020, 12:12:53 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on September 23, 2020, 11:44:05 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on September 23, 2020, 11:36:20 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on September 23, 2020, 11:28:04 PM
Fucking Herro ball killed the Cetls tonight

that and fucking turnovers.

sloppy ball for mosr of the night

Better and more disciplined team won tonight

FWIW, my Mets also lost today and are virtually eliminated from the post season.

There’s always next year.

Maybe you guys can still bounce back?

Do you remember Drazen Petrovic? That’s who Herro was playing like this evening.

Oops, Chip said it first, which makes it even more true.

Not over yet Carlos.

the Celts are only mostly dead.

They could use Miracle Max off the bench

Or out of the announcing booth, anyway...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on September 24, 2020, 08:14:31 AM
Herro seems to have Petrovic's fearlessness and confidence, but seems to be a more-rounded player.  He's got a great handle, can pass and can jump out of the building. 
Title: Re: Sorry Bank
Post by: bankshot1 on September 24, 2020, 09:24:33 AM
Quote from: josh on September 24, 2020, 12:12:53 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on September 23, 2020, 11:44:05 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on September 23, 2020, 11:36:20 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on September 23, 2020, 11:28:04 PM
Fucking Herro ball killed the Cetls tonight

that and fucking turnovers.

sloppy ball for mosr of the night

Better and more disciplined team won tonight

FWIW, my Mets also lost today and are virtually eliminated from the post season.

There’s always next year.

Maybe you guys can still bounce back?

Do you remember Drazen Petrovic? That’s who Herro was playing like this evening.

Oops, Chip said it first, which makes it even more true.

Not over yet Carlos.

the Celts are only mostly dead.

They could use Miracle Max off the bench

Or out of the announcing booth, anyway...

Down 3-1 Celts need more than old Cornbread

if the Heat has a hero, maybe the Celts need to find their inner anti-hero

They need their inner "Mad Max" to emerge

Mad Marcus wasn't enough
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on September 24, 2020, 09:50:36 AM
Brad looks mad.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 24, 2020, 09:57:31 AM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on September 24, 2020, 09:50:36 AM
Brad looks mad.

I caught that wrinkled brow too.

Good thing he didn't get T'ed up for that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 24, 2020, 01:21:45 PM
Okongwu and Vassell are two guys I quite like.
Sign me up for a 3&D wing like Vassell appears to be.
Shooting and D are two Knick needs.

Last game you can see what I find intriguing about Jerami Grant.
Guarded LeBJ well and found time to score 26, with 10-12 FT's.
The guy is tough and fearless.  I liked when he took a charge with AD running over him late 3Q.  And early 3Q he stole a feeble AD pass and sprinted down court with LBJ on his right and AD left, and bodied slightly into LBJ to take him out of the play and then finished with a layup to the right away form AD.

That's why I think he can expand his game.  And the good thing about two-way players is they can contribute tough D even when their O is off.  Two issues: is Jerami too passive at times?  and can he be consistent?  I'd much rather Grant hustling his butt off than Portis' pointless aggression.

I was going to suggest we make a run at Willy's bro Juancho, who turns 25 in a few days.  But I see that he had a good 14 game run with Minny:
45.3% FG   & 42% on 3's (2.1-4.9) = 13 pts in  30 mins a night + 7.3 boardage.
So Minny is going to want to keep him.  Never much of a defender from what I recall.  But a much cheaper option than say Bertans.

I've been meaning to skim through rosters and drop my list of FA or trade targets.
So far I have Jer Grant, Juancho and Giles on my radar.  And I like SAC's Bogdanovich.
Title: Devin Vassell
Post by: chipstern on September 24, 2020, 02:53:39 PM
NBA Comparison: Kelly Oubre/Kent Bazemore

6'7" 200 lbs

Strengths: One of the most athletic wings in this year’s NBA draft … Shows a lot of promise as a wing that can contribute on both ends of the floor … High flyer. Explosive leaper. When he has an opening to the basket, regularly finishes with highlight dunks … Smooth offensive game, makes it look easy … Fluid athlete who runs the floor well …

Good length, Possesses a near 7-foot wingspan … Has an athletic body … Shot 41% from three in both of his seasons at Florida State (knocking down 19 and 48 in his two seasons) … Hit 1.5 threes per game over a full college season, a solid sample size to project his ability as a shooter and scorer at the next level … Showed vast improvement from his freshman year, (4.5 to 12.7 ppg) after receiving a much greater opportunity to be a focal point of the offense …

Shows the ability to handle the ball and create offense off the dribble … Can pull up off the dribble and knock down shots consistently … Mid-range game showed solid improvement as a sophomore. Adept at improvising on drives and creating shots when there are openings … Has a go to move with his step back jumper, that he utilizes well to create space for shots … High release point on his shot is a positive …

Wiry strong. Plays stronger than his frame and doesn’t get affected much by contact … Very good rebounder considering his thin frame, 5.1 rebounds per game stands out as a wing playing 28 min per game … Has a reputation for being a tough competitor … Unselfish player who passes willingly and is an underrated passer … A competitor who showed the ability to perform well in clutch situations. It would have been fun to see what he could have done in this year’s NCAA tourney
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 24, 2020, 02:56:09 PM
West G3.  Lakes down big.  Rondo gets 3 steals in about 2 minutes fueling a Lake rally.  but then last 2 mins of a tight game Rondo makes 3 mistakes.  Tries to push off an elbows Milsap for an offensive foul.  Leaves Milsap alone under the rim for a late clock easy bucket.  Left wide open, Rondo clanks a 3.

Jamal Murray the breakout player of these playoffs.  Had 12 assists, and made some terrific plays down the stretch -- after a bunch of early 4Q turnovers.  Real nice on his drives how he stops, maintains balance and makes shots look easy.  And some killer 3-bombs. 

Good series.  Would be a great series if AD missed the G2 last shot ...
 
Title: Herro Ball V Murray State [of the ART]
Post by: chipstern on September 24, 2020, 03:15:32 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 24, 2020, 02:56:09 PM
West G3.  Lakes down big.  Rondo gets 3 steals in about 2 minutes fueling a Lake rally.  but then last 2 mins of a tight game Rondo makes 3 mistakes.  Tries to push off an elbows Milsap for an offensive foul.  Leaves Milsap alone under the rim for a late clock easy bucket.  Left wide open, Rondo clanks a 3.

Jamal Murray the breakout player of these playoffs.  Had 12 assists, and made some terrific plays down the stretch -- after a bunch of early 4Q turnovers.  Real nice on his drives how he stops, maintains balance and makes shots look easy.  And some killer 3-bombs. 

Good series.  Would be a great series if AD missed the G2 last shot ...
 

Murray is a fucking stud.

As well he should be, seeing as how he was the final asset the Knicks gave up to Denver in the Melo Trade.

And Jokic is insane.  What a skill set and competitive edge, and he manages to split the difference between old school centers and post-small ball Stertch 4.  Late/End Of First Rounder was he not?  Too bad Ainge didn't trade up, eh? 

I would say in terms of break-out players, Herro right up there.  He is growing logarhythmically quarter by quarter.  Incredible all around skillset and confidence. A PAT RILEY PLAYER DOWN TO HIS TOES.

Tyler and Bam give Miami brood mares for the next ten years.  Given their Kentucky Lineage, I would suspect the Knicks are going to be very patient with both of our KENTUCKY alumni, Julius Randle and Kevin Knox, now that we have Kenny Payne working with them in the bubble. 

JERAMI GRANT

All you said he was. 

Would be a great pickup for Coach Thibs.

Alas, I feel like this is another Jaylen Brown wet dream.  Cannot comprehend why he would consider leaving THIS NUGGETS TEAM, with all of their young talent and chemistry, or why the Nuggets wouldn't lock him up. 

For what it's worth, NBA DRAFT has Haliburton and Vassell falling into our laps at #8. 

Late first round scrum is interesting. 

23    Utah   Kira Lewis   6-3   170   PG   Alabama   So.

24    *Milwaukee   Nico Mannion   6-3   190   PG   Arizona   Fr.

25    *Oklahoma City   RJ Hampton   6-4   175   PG/SG   USA   Intl.

26    Boston   Jahmius Ramsey   6-4   190   PG/SG   Texas Tech   Fr.

27    *New York   Zeke Nnaji   6-11   240    PF/C   Arizona   Fr.

28    LA Lakers    Devon Dotson   6-1   185   PG   Kansas   So.

29    Toronto   Tyler Bey   6-7   215   PF    Colorado   Jr.

30    *Boston   Daniel Oturu   6-10   240   C   Minnesota   So.


Nnaji viewed as a prototypical stretch 4, and the NBA comparisons they listed were PJ Brown and....

And....AND...JORDAN HILL.  Be still my heart. 

37    *Washington   Isaiah Joe   6-5   165   PG/SG   Arkansas   So.

38    *New York   Filip Petrusev   6-11   225   C   Gonzaga   So.

39    *New Orleans   Udoka Azubuike   6-11   280   C   Kansas   Sr.

40    *Memphis   Aleksej Pokusevski   7-0   190   C   Serbia   Intl.

We shall see....

Oh, and finally, rumor of a Buddy Hield trade to Philly.  Hield endorsed it in an Instagram Post. 

We

Shall

See
Title: The ART Of Drafting SMART [The Significance Of The WALT PERRIN Hiring]
Post by: chipstern on September 24, 2020, 03:54:59 PM
Actually, was a second rounder....Yikes. 

One might opine as how all of those second rounders that Phool Jagoof and other Knicks front office geniuses gave away could have considerable long term value.

Ah, but CHIP, we did have a second rounder in the 2014 Draft. 

Do tell? 

Read 'em and WEEP Knicks fans. 

While Phool did make a good call on Damyean Dotson with a #2 pick (whom I pray remains a Knick, I mean, size, can nail the trey, excellent three point shooter)....2014?  Well....YOU MAKE THE CALL.   

#34 Cleanthony Early

#38 Spencer Dinwiddie

#39 Jerami Grant

#41 Nikola Jokic

#46 Jordan Clarkson


And PHOOL's final draft, in 2017, when he foudn Dotson in the second round?   

#8 Frank Ntiliknia

#13 Donovan Mitchell

#14 Bam Adebayo

#23 OG Anunoby

SIGH

One of Rose's early hires was WALT PERRIN--Utah Jazz VP of Player Personnel--to be the Knicks new assistant GM and head of college scouting. Perrin spent nearly 20 years with the Utah Jazz, overseeing their draft process, from organizing workouts to advanced scouting.

"....due to the Jazz’ success, they have often drafted players outside of the lottery in the mid-to-late slots of the first round. Drafting mid-to-late round picks requires a deft understanding of scouting and networking with players and agents. It’s not uncommon to see lottery picks drop down past the early first round due to a multitude of factors. The skillset Perrin possesses reinforces these traits." 

WALT PERRIN'S Top 10?

10) Mo Williams: 2003 NBA Draft (47th Overall Pick)
9) Enes Kanter: 2011 NBA Draft (3rd Overall Pick)
8) Ronnie Brewer: 2006 NBA Draft (14th Overall Pick)
7) C.J. Miles 2005 NBA Draft (34th Overall Pick)
6) Rodney Hood: 2014 NBA Draft (23rd Overall Pick)
5) Paul Millsap: 2006 NBA Draft (47th Overall Pick)
4) Gordon Hayward: 2010 NBA Draft (9th Overall Pick) [Final #1 Asset From Stephon Marbury Trade]
3) Deron Williams: 2005 NBA Draft (3rd Overall Pick)

The Utah Jazz originally held the 6th and the 27th overall picks in the 2005 NBA Draft. The Portland Trailblazers held the 3rd overall pick in the draft. The Trailblazers had their eyes set on Martell Webster, whom they considered one of the best shooting guards in the draft. Additionally, they entrusted in Sebastian Telfair, drafted 13th overall in the 2004 NBA Draft, as their franchise point guard.

The Jazz, on the other hand, had their eyes on both Chris Paul & Deron Williams. The Jazz were afraid both would be picked before the 6th pick. In fact, Walt Perrin convinced then-GM Kevin O’Connor to trade up to acquire one of them. As O’Connor recalled to Mike Vorkunov of The Athletic, Perrin told him that “We have to get one of those two guys because they’re going to be a franchise changer.”

The Jazz were torn between CP3 & Williams. It was a decision made alongside O’Connor, Perrin, team president Denny Haslam, & then-coach Jerry Sloan. Ultimately, the decision was made to select Williams over Paul for several reasons. Sloan preferred his fit in the offense, his interview with the team, and his size.

The Jazz & Blazers pulled the trigger on the trade hours before the draft. The Jazz dealt both of their 1st round picks along with a 2006 1st round pick to the Blazers for the #3 pick [Hmmmmm, sounds suspiciously like the proposed Warriors Knicks Trade where the Knicks would pick Ball]

2) Donovan Mitchell: 2017 NBA Draft (13th Overall Pick)

One of Walt Perrin’s greatest finds was scouting Donovan Mitchell and convincing the Jazz not only to draft him, but to trade up to the 13th overall pick to acquire him. At the cost of just Trey Lyles and the 24th overall pick in the draft, that’s more than a heist.

Perrin convinced the Jazz to move up to select Mitchell after being impressed by a pre-draft workout he orchestrated with Mitchell’s agent, who Perrin has a strong relationship with. It is a great example of how Perrin used his connections and scouting acumen to identify a sleeper in the draft.

* Please Note: The Jazz flipped the #24 and Lyles for the #13 with....DENVER.

1) Rudy Gobert: 2013 NBA Draft (27th Overall Pick)

It seems like the Utah Jazz love to fleece the Denver Nuggets in draft-day trades during the 2010s. The Nuggets weren’t interested in keeping their first round pick. To save money, the Nuggets agreed to trade their first round pick, 27th overall, to the Jazz for the 46th overall pick and cash considerations.

The Jazz, in return, drafted Rudy Gobert and the rest is history.

Heading into the draft, many teams were wowed by Gobert’s physical attributes – 7’2 height and 7’9 wingspan – but considered him a very raw prospect that needed years to develop his frame. Many mock drafts galore didn’t even consider him a second round pick.

To Walt Perrin & the Jazz, he was considered a gem. Perrin watched Gobert play in Europe and arranged for him to workout with the Jazz before the draft. Perrin noted that Gobert “had an outstanding workout” and was more impressed with that than his talent. To reward Gobert, the Jazz traded up to select him.
Title: Another One Bites The Dust
Post by: chipstern on September 24, 2020, 05:54:51 PM
Nick Nurse optimistic about re-signing Fred VanVleet

Steven Loung: Nick Nurse said on @timandsid he’d be “pretty surprised” if Fred VanVleet doesn’t return to the Raptors next season. – via Twitter
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 24, 2020, 06:03:41 PM
Before the season, I thought Jerami Grant and Josh Richardson were terrific additions and going to have more impact than they did.  Both had solid seasons, but also went quiet too many games.  And of course, '6ers needed somebody (Embiid, Tobias) to step up and replace Butler's crunch time scoring.  I thought JoshRich could help by spotting up.

The issue with Jerami Grant is consistency.  And not deferring too much.  If Porter was a good defender, Grant would likely be available. 
Otherwise Torey Craig needs a significant raise.
Keep him ($6M or so) and let Grant go?   
Pay Grant a good amount ($14M) and let Craig go?

Wil Barton and Gary Harris are overpaid.
Right now they have $30M invested between Harris and Barton.I'd look to ditch Wil Bart.  Find a trade to remove Barton.  Let MonteMorris and PJ Bull Dozier fill his role. Barton -- $13.7M & a $14.7M player option after that -- can light it up, but is chumpy on D, and streaky on O.

Do you bring Millsap back as a vet wisehead ... on a much lower contract?
He has no hops left, and was always a bit undersized, so he gets blocked near the rim a helluva lot, or often enough gets bottled up and passes out.  Still tough and smart.  But 35.

Some tough calls for DEN to make.
Decide between Grant, Craig, Millsap and Plumlee -- all expiring deals assuming Grant opts out.  All 4 very unlikely to return.  Jokic the primary Big.  With Porter is a key F going forward.


Nice team, but you can't pay everybody.  And they need Gary Harris to mesh better with Murray and Jokic.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 24, 2020, 09:32:58 PM
Heh

Didnt you and your merry men pub Early, Chip?
Title: And yet AGAIN???
Post by: carlos123 on September 24, 2020, 09:45:46 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 24, 2020, 09:32:58 PM
Heh

Didnt you and your merry men pub Early, Chip?

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3cQYLdBqU6M75LC1XDRs3rrgSnm9ojknoi6ZvPuegxc-55VQI_0YKlROaHs6Mw9RwGLTLKA7zNvp3O6zBWsg5Ic0Zu15G14sx_97DWdzGfaPTocHWahD2QbqfVFI2hZK8me3jLmc7jOf1A4fK-VgJSO=w292-h548-no?authuser=0)
Mr. heh

Quote
Didnt you and your merry men pub Early, Chip?

Is this supposed to mean anything? 🙄

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 24, 2020, 11:51:06 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 24, 2020, 09:32:58 PM
Heh

Didnt you and your merry men pub Early, Chip?

Yes.

I imbibed the Kool Aid. 

Hey, I was all in on Phil until he proved to be a fucking PHOOL. 

Weren't you all in on Jordan Hill? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 25, 2020, 12:07:13 AM
Sure

Good player
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 25, 2020, 12:56:29 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 25, 2020, 12:07:13 AM
Sure

Good player

Piece

Of

_______

Out of the league at 29.

A Srubbeenie

Heh. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 25, 2020, 01:47:42 AM
Jordan Hill had good length and was active, but not much feel for the game.  And tried to do more than he could -- his post-ups were adventures.

Still the only player I've seen who looked questionable/bad in his own college highlight reel.  He was just scoring and boarding over smaller guys, but looking awkward and clumsy doing so.  Me no draftnik, but thought that was a pretty clear red flag.

Cleanthony seemed to have issues with NYC nightlife.  Good athlete, but often for 2nd rounders to make it they need to mentally strong and focused.  Post-gunshot, he's kicked around some rather low level leagues (Saudi Arabia, Hungary).

Some Cleanthony issues.  Was 23 when drafted with raw offensive skills (iffy shot, weak ballhandling) and so not much time to figure things out.  Also had played PF in college but at 6'7" 210 was an NBA wing, so had positional adjustment. 
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2067611-cleanthony-early-drafted-by-new-york-knicks-latest-news-reaction-and-analysis

Cleant is reportedly a vegan.  I assume that's fairly rare among professional hoopsters.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 25, 2020, 09:34:52 AM
 Well...you are consistent in your occasional "just wrongness".
Title: "HEH Crude": Petitioning For New Kiid Nickname; SAINT CRUDE
Post by: chipstern on September 25, 2020, 03:45:12 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on September 25, 2020, 09:34:52 AM
Well...you are consistent in your occasional "just wrongness".

SAINT CRUDE

The Patron Saint Of Lost Hoopsters

(https://78.media.tumblr.com/a3fe98cbaa6e65162b2ec1c7c0214f65/tumblr_pfs9pqyzxG1wffto6o1_1280.gif)

HEH Crude
Just work your slag
Take a lame argument
And knit a sweater

Whenever
Y'all get under an Elban's Skin
Then the bullshit begins
With specious jive
Right down to the letter

So Jimmer and Jordan flopped
Both dropped
But Crude won't stop
Advancing lost causes
Though, HEH, even he knows better....
Title: So romantic
Post by: carlos123 on September 25, 2020, 04:37:22 PM
Hey Chip, nice poetry.

Not sure Mr. heh, AKA Chamaco Cartero, is gonna appreciate it.

Too bad 😏
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 25, 2020, 04:46:14 PM
Through every bad slant and contortion
And pronouncement lacking all reason
Grows a picture of Kiid’s utter confusion
He even hyped Adam Morrison
Did that guy even last one season?
Title: Saint Crude
Post by: chipstern on September 25, 2020, 04:59:20 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 25, 2020, 04:46:14 PM
Through every bad slant and contortion
And pronouncement lacking all reason
Grows a picture of Kiid’s utter confusion
He even hyped Adam Morrison
Did that guy even last one season?

I reckon we should cut Saint Crude some slack
After all
Jordan Hill
Was technically....black. 

He will not go down without a fight
Though Jimmer is peripherally...white

Toting that bilge
And grifting that sail
Advancing the theory that
These wash outs didn't fail

And so the HEH Humper
Comes And Goes
Speaking of Michelangelo

When naught but the foolhardy
Seek to engage
His provocations
Upon this page

But hark
Do I take the bait
Offering succor to
This Trumpian Naif

Not unlike some Spayed Marian
He defines the contraian
Impulse in us all

And though we gnash and aimlessly hurumph
At his giddy fashioning of junk
We are yet transfixed by this lunk
Thus doth Saint Crude vocuhsafe his bunk

To scheme the impossible dream....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 25, 2020, 09:37:59 PM
Kiid’s prognostications are crap
Because he falls into a pigment trap
White chuckers make him stand and clap
Because he’s the OG WAP
Title: WAP
Post by: carlos123 on September 25, 2020, 09:45:00 PM
Fac, you made me do it. There it goes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wc5IbN4xw70 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wc5IbN4xw70)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsm4poTWjMs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsm4poTWjMs)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 25, 2020, 11:28:14 PM
Still alive

They looked dead in the first half but found something in the 3rd qtr.

that was the best half they've played in a while

and the D led to a surge in transition hoops

Theis was huge tonight
Title: Celtics
Post by: carlos123 on September 26, 2020, 12:16:36 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on September 25, 2020, 11:28:14 PM
Still alive

They looked dead in the first half but found something in the 3rd qtr.

that was the best half they've played in a while

and the D led to a surge in transition hoops

Theis was huge tonight

Congrats Bank.

Tatum was pretty good too in the second half. Just ask Chamaco Cartero.
Kanter the best Celtic in the first half, no offense meant to the Kamster.

Herro ok, but down to earth for Miami.

Meanwhile, the discombobulated Yankees manage to lose to Miami with an inordinate number of errors. Not that I care too much, except my Mets are still (barely) alive and a Miami loss woulda been good for them.
Title: Re: Celtics
Post by: bankshot1 on September 26, 2020, 12:24:10 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on September 26, 2020, 12:16:36 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on September 25, 2020, 11:28:14 PM
Still alive

They looked dead in the first half but found something in the 3rd qtr.

that was the best half they've played in a while

and the D led to a surge in transition hoops

Theis was huge tonight

Congrats Bank.

Tatum was pretty good too in the second half. Just ask Chamaco Cartero.
Kanter the best Celtic in the first half, no offense meant to the Kamster.

Herro ok, but down to earth for Miami.

Your guy Enes gave them a much needed boost in the 1st half when nothing was happening with a couple of quick hoops and O-boards.

Brad has really shortened his rotation.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 26, 2020, 02:38:41 AM
Short rotations is the essence of the playoffs.

Quote from: carlos123 on September 25, 2020, 09:45:00 PM
Fac, you made me do it. There it goes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wc5IbN4xw70 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wc5IbN4xw70)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsm4poTWjMs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsm4poTWjMs)

Los, here’s the Gilbert Gotfried version,

http://youtu.be/7tBi4Z7yexY (http://youtu.be/7tBi4Z7yexY)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 26, 2020, 08:48:17 AM
Excellent work last night by Brown and Theiss.  I still think Celts should feature Hayward more.  Heat had that one to play with.
Title: Gilbert Gotfried version
Post by: carlos123 on September 26, 2020, 09:57:26 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 26, 2020, 02:38:41 AM

Quote from: carlos123 on September 25, 2020, 09:45:00 PM
Fac, you made me do it. There it goes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wc5IbN4xw70 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wc5IbN4xw70)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsm4poTWjMs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsm4poTWjMs)

Los, here’s the Gilbert Gotfried version,

http://youtu.be/7tBi4Z7yexY (http://youtu.be/7tBi4Z7yexY)

Very sexy 🤣

You don’t mean to imply that would be like Chamaco heh Cartero performing his version of OG WAP, do you?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 26, 2020, 11:06:09 AM
https://hoopshype.com/2020/09/23/three-ring-circus-kobe-shaq-phil-and-the-crazy-years-of-the-lakers-dynasty/



Krause thought Jackson to be more than merely manipulative. He considered him mean. Having faced Jackson during their playing days, West didn’t have to be told twice. During the 1972 NBA Finals, between the Knicks and the Lakers, West was walking off the floor after one of the games when his nose came into direct contact with Jackson’s elbow. “Phil . . . broke the guy’s nose,” recalled Walt Frazier, New York’s point guard. There was also the matter of Jackson’s recent criticism of the Lakers’ handling of Dennis Rodman. He felt the team didn’t give his former star enough of an opportunity, and said so. “Apparently we don’t do things right,” West fired back.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 26, 2020, 11:47:07 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 26, 2020, 02:38:41 AM
Short rotations is the essence of the playoffs.


Yup.

Both teams basically played 7 guys last night. (Kanter and Iggy were the #7s last night with 10 and 19 minutes, respectively)

But getting Hayward back allowed Brad to give Hayward his 30 instead of 15-15 (or 10-10-10) to 2 or 3 bench-role players.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 26, 2020, 11:52:33 AM
That WAP is a helluva catchy tune, great beat and easy to dance too.

Good song for the PTA moms to perform at the school fund-raiser.
Title: 😄😂🤣
Post by: carlos123 on September 26, 2020, 12:45:50 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on September 26, 2020, 11:52:33 AM
That WAP is a helluva catchy tune, great beat and easy to dance too.

Good song for the PTA moms to perform at the school fund-raiser.

Yeah, just make sure they don’t forget to bring the tigers and the snakes to the fund-raiser.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 26, 2020, 02:23:56 PM
MIA outplayed BOS the 1st half but didn't have much of a lead.  I thought that was a bad sign for the Heat.

Theis really got going 2nd half.
Besides the very good D, Smart and Tatum were making nice passes, Jaylen was hitting, and Tatum was getting to the line.  BOS also picked apart the zone quite well.
Title: I'm ALL In [Sign Me Up]
Post by: chipstern on September 26, 2020, 11:51:11 PM
I am ALL IN on Jerami Grant. 

Yes Siree...now THAT's A Stertch 4-3

Kevin Knox, take note. 

Not sure he's leaving Denver.  Cap/tax issues, but why would they?  Yes Jerami would be my first choice to replace either Randle  Potis/Gibson and/or Randle. 

Please note: I DO NOT WANT to dump Randle.  Or Knox.  Kentucky in the house. 

However, at 6'7" 250, my second choice might be more obtainable, realistically speaking. 

Montrezl Harrell


Has the body, and scale, and edgy physical impact, if not the giddy athleticism of a Zion Williamson a Larry Johnson. 

Okay, Paul Milsap.  The ghost of Wes Unseld.  Still maturing at 26.  A defender and a fierce inside presence. 

Obviously Grant has more length, more versatlity, and that Stretch 4-3 range you like in a Bertrans or a Gallinari. 

Oh, and that BIG 3 RANGE.

But Harrell is unrestricted and available and he wants OUT of L.A.  He's had a belly full of Paul George, is on the final years of a $6 million contract and while one would hope his price was reasonable, would anyone here have a problem putting him in the Tak Gibson-Bobby Portis $10-15 million x per range? 

While Jerami would give us coverage at the 4-3-2, Harrell would give us coverage at the 4-5. 

Assuming, just for the sake of argument, that we let Potis and Gibson walk [leaving the door open for a return on a friendler deal],

Center-Power Forward: Robinson, Randle, Harrell, Wooten
Power Forward-Small Forward: Knox, Brazdeikis, [Draft Pick?]
Small Forward-Shooting Guard: Barrett, Bullock, Dotson [Draft Pick?]
Shooting Guard-Point Guard: Ntilikna, Smith, Harper [Draft Pick?]

That's 12 right there and three remaining roster spots for draft picks or free agents. 

I don't think we have a shot at Van Vleet.  The over under on Grant is better, but Denver is building something.  Not sure they are that penny wise and pound foolish. 

Harrell is a DAWG, and having him and a dawg like Wooten, presumably after Randle either passes his doctoral thesis or moves on, gives us some tough, physical players down low. 

Meanwhile, while Melo's return would, along with Gibson, have a feel good, mentor quality, I think he says in Portland, thank God. 

Gallinari.  Always liked his game, and he has grown.  Certainly fills a need.  He is 32, and has serious miles on the odometer.  Makes sense, if we are detemined to get a stretch 4-3 to replace Potis, and we can't get Grant, or Anthony Mason.  His three point shooting and free throw shooting are state of the art. His overall FG% not that gaudy.  Nor will he come cheap.  Nor will Grant or Harrell, but a level or so below. 

But my vote is Harrell. 

MEANWHILE....


Meanwhile, when Coach Thibs goes to bed at night, a betcha he gets a woody and the night sweats, as images of sugar plau fairies, Jimmy Butler and R.J. Barrett conflate in his reverie. 

PS: Most of the trades I read on line are ridiculous.  I like Ball, but three #1 picks and French Frank.  No. 

PPS: The roster listed above, and if we sign Harrell?  Vassell would be sweet at the 8-spot. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 26, 2020, 11:55:41 PM
Fuck the Lakers
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 26, 2020, 11:58:36 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on September 26, 2020, 11:55:41 PM
Fuck the Lakers

Well, now...

LeBron certainly made a statement. 

So did Denver. 

On the big stage.  They'll be back. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 27, 2020, 12:52:37 AM
Grant doesn't pass

Grant doesn't board.

But sure - let's have the effort guy.
Title: Jerami
Post by: chipstern on September 27, 2020, 01:01:28 AM
On the other hand....

Good length and wingspan and athleiticism.  Nice DNA as well. 

Jerami DEFENDS multiple positions, and shoots a high percentage of 3s.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 27, 2020, 03:15:27 AM
Jerami Grant could be had if we hand him 4 years for 80 or so. I’d do that dumping Portis and Ellington to free up the cash. That’s talent consolidation if the player is willing to come on. If we do it as a sign and trade so they waive Portis and Ellington, I’m fine with that as well.

One of Deni Onyeka Devin Killian with 8 & see how the rest of draft night goes.

We can still free up more money to pursue other FA’s or absorb a very expensive PG for Randle and possibly some change kind of deal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 27, 2020, 05:58:04 AM
4/$80 for Gen Grant?  Yikes!  No from Bo.
I would be nervous at 4/$60M.  Was hoping more around $12.5M - $14M per.
3/$50M would be the top end I'd consider, and I probably wouldn't do that.

I'm a Montrezl fan.  One of those guys who gets others to play harder so they don't look bad by comparison.  He has limits, but so does Grant.
I like Grant and think he can expand his game, but worry about consistency and a little light in the seat for playing 4's.  But a terrific effort guy.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 27, 2020, 10:38:56 AM
I'm a Montrezl fan.  One of those guys who gets others to play harder so they don't look bad by comparison.  He has limits, but so does Grant.


Like Jordan Hill
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on September 27, 2020, 11:22:26 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 27, 2020, 10:38:56 AM
I'm a Montrezl fan.  One of those guys who gets others to play harder so they don't look bad by comparison.  He has limits, but so does Grant.


Like Jordan Hill
If there are any social researchers here that would like a paradigm of somebody incapable of admitting error, I have a great candidate.
Title: It’s a disability
Post by: carlos123 on September 27, 2020, 12:10:33 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on September 27, 2020, 11:22:26 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 27, 2020, 10:38:56 AM
I'm a Montrezl fan.  One of those guys who gets others to play harder so they don't look bad by comparison.  He has limits, but so does Grant.


Like Jordan Hill
If there are any social researchers here that would like a paradigm of somebody incapable of admitting error, I have a great candidate.

Poor Chamaco has some sort of disability. He just can’t see that that horse has been dead for a long time, so he keeps beating on it.

It may be a new and as yet unexplored disability. Maybe we should name it The Chamaco Disability, and then let the experts do their research.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 27, 2020, 12:17:57 PM
Just to remind YG - I was WITH THE MASSES in 2009 in wishing to deal up for Curry.

Some here liked Thabeet and Flynn, both taken ahead of Steph

heh

In not being able (or willing - you can give some info for a change on this if you like, YG) to deal up, taking Hill was fine with me, yes. I liked him as an All American collegian and he played well for us vs expectation as a rook at 22


JH played just 24 games for us and yielded McGrady, who in theory could have been better for us

Title: Re: It’s a disability
Post by: josh on September 27, 2020, 01:15:12 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on September 27, 2020, 12:10:33 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on September 27, 2020, 11:22:26 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 27, 2020, 10:38:56 AM
I'm a Montrezl fan.  One of those guys who gets others to play harder so they don't look bad by comparison.  He has limits, but so does Grant.


Like Jordan Hill
If there are any social researchers here that would like a paradigm of somebody incapable of admitting error, I have a great candidate.

Poor Chamaco has some sort of disability. He just can’t see that that horse has been dead for a long time, se he keeps beating on it.

It may be a new and as yet unexplored disability. Maybe we should name it The Chamaco Disability, and then let the experts do their research.

He's really 2nd worst, not worst. And it's not even close.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 27, 2020, 01:59:01 PM
Well, we all have players we like who don't pan out for whatever reason.  I thought Julian Wright was a potential all-star wing.  And thought Biedrins could do much of what Gobert has done.  (At least I was an early Gobert proponent).

I'm still pulling for Stan Johnson who is a very good defender and terrific in the open court.  Hopefully he can find somewhere he can play more. 

Kiid just more of a barnacle type than most.
And Hill didn't play well for us in 1/3 of a season.  44% FG for an interior big is not good.  And he was jittery on defense.

Montrezl otoh has a career 61% FG and averaged 17.5 Pts over the past two season.  He does need to improve his weak FT shooting.
Title: BEATING A DEAD HORSE: The Myth of The Ribber Jordan
Post by: chipstern on September 27, 2020, 02:02:34 PM
It's a compulsion.

Purporting to see ANY parallels between Hill and Harrell. 

Didn't play more than 16 fucking minutes a game until his 5th season. 

In his second and third season for the botttom dwelling Lakers:

9.7 ppg/7.4 reb
12.0 ppg/7.9 reb/1.5 ass [Age 27, 26.8. 21-61 record]

One for more season for the Pacers. 

8.8 ppg/6.2 reb/1.2 ass

Gone.

One final season for the Wolves (well, 7 games) and out of the league at 29 with a career .499 FG%

Harrell?

Differrent body.  Different game. Different progression.  Steady progression.  SIGNIFICANT IMPROVEMENT. 

In Harrell's 2019-2020/5th season?  [Age 26, 27.8 minutes, 49-23 record]

18.6 ppg/7.1 reb/1.7 ass

Different bodies, different games, significantly different impact on the won-loss record. 

Dumber than a bag of hair. 

Anyway, got the attention you crave, so well-played, dead horse wise. 
 
Title: The THIBS Connection: Jimmy Butler
Post by: chipstern on September 27, 2020, 02:35:13 PM
In Butler's 3rd season for the Bulls, the [presently] 6'7" 230 pound SG/SF, having earned 38 minutes a game:

13.1 ppg/4.6 rebounds/2.6 ass/1.9 steals/.769 FT%/.283 3PT/397% FG/260-338 FTs

Fourth season?  BINGO. 

20.0 ppg/5.8 rebounds/3.3 assists/1.8 steals/.834 FT%/.378% 3-Pt
And he has improved on that (up to 6.7 rebounds and 6 assists last season)

Not making the case for a direct correleation, obviously, but I am sure Thibs sees the parallels with his 6'6" 215 pound 20 year old in 30.8 minutes per game.

14.3 ppg/5.0 rebounds/2.6 ass/1.0 steals/.614 FT%/.320% 3PT/.445% FG/156-254 FTs

Pretty good for a 19 year old rookie and a fatally flawed team.

ANTICIPATING Kiid coming back with "Just like Jimmer Fredette." 

And why not?  No less absurd than his Jordan Hill testimonies.

Jimmer's rookie year, in 18.6 mpg?

7.6 ppg/1.9 rebounds/1.8 assists/0.5 steals/.833 FT%/.361% 3PT/.386% FG/40-48 FTs

Jordan's stint with the Knicks? 

4.0 ppg/2.5 Rebounds/0.3 assists

Yup, from Saint Jude to Taint Crude, Kiid's grasp of stats and analysis parallels that of his hero Donald Trump. 

Taint: The area between the testicles or vulva and the anus
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on September 27, 2020, 04:29:16 PM
My only real problem with Jordan Hill was that watching him play hurt my eyes.
Title: Taint
Post by: carlos123 on September 27, 2020, 05:22:36 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 27, 2020, 02:35:13 PM

Taint: The area between the testicles or vulva and the anus

Spanish translation for Chamaco:

Nié: nié el toto, nié el ... you get the idea
Title: 2009 Draft...A Gift That Keeps Giving
Post by: chipstern on September 27, 2020, 05:26:26 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on September 27, 2020, 04:29:16 PM
My only real problem with Jordan Hill was that watching him play hurt my eyes.

Awkward. 

Nice frame and length, but seemed utterly lost on offense. 

FUCK DONNIE AssFlow.  Jordan Hill.  JESUS.  What fucking need did he fill? Trade click bait after only 24 games. 

We already had David Lee, Danilo Gallinari, Wilson Chandler, Al Harrington, Jared Jeffries....our point guard was fucking Chris Duhon!

Not sure if a trade up was an option, as Taint Crude smugly suggests, vis a vis Curry, who wanted to be a Knick. 

2009 Draft was a literal buffet table of point guards and enduring talents. 

Some washed out.  Some glowed for a while, then dimmed.  Others sustained. 

#7 Steph Curry
#8 Jordan Hill
#9 DeMar DeRozan
#10 Brandon Jennings
#17 Jrue Holiday
#18 Ty Lawson
#19 Jeff Teague
#21 Darren Collison
#26 Taj Gibson
#27 DeMare Carroll
#28 Wayne Ellington
#29 Toney Douglas
#42 Patrick Beverley

Nine players still in the league. 

Four players?  Not.  Including, tah-dah BOTH of the KNICKS's 2009 reaches. 
Title: Hey Bank
Post by: carlos123 on September 27, 2020, 09:56:34 PM
Sorry Bank, but this doesn’t look good for you Celtics fans.

Still, you got to the EC finals. Where do I sign for that?
Title: Re: Hey Bank
Post by: bankshot1 on September 27, 2020, 10:10:17 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on September 27, 2020, 09:56:34 PM
Sorry Bank, but this doesn’t look good for you Celtics fans.

Still, you got to the EC finals. Where do I sign for that?

BEAT LA!

Heat played great-and they owned crunch time the entire series-can't be too pissed

But am a little disappointed and was really hoping for a G7

the losses in G1 anf G2 were killers.

But it will be easy to root for the Heat in the Finals

But fuck Riley for oldtime sakes
Title: YEAH
Post by: carlos123 on September 27, 2020, 11:21:40 PM
Fuck Riley Indeed!

Go Bron & Co.
Title: Re: YEAH
Post by: bankshot1 on September 27, 2020, 11:49:43 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on September 27, 2020, 11:21:40 PM
Fuck Riley Indeed!

Go Bron & Co.

That's where we part ways my friend.

i'm all in for the u-dogs, HEAT.

it wil likely be wasted emotions.
Title: Re: YEAH
Post by: carlos123 on September 28, 2020, 12:21:32 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on September 27, 2020, 11:49:43 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on September 27, 2020, 11:21:40 PM
Fuck Riley Indeed!

Go Bron & Co.

That's where we part ways my friend.

i'm all in for the u-dogs, HEAT.

it wil likely be wasted emotions.

Can go either way.

Miami great team play.

Bron still superhuman.
Title: Re: 2009 Draft...A Gift That Keeps Giving
Post by: bodiddley on September 28, 2020, 01:18:37 AM
Quote from: chipstern on September 27, 2020, 05:26:26 PM
#8 Jordan Hill
#9 DeMar DeRozan
#10 Brandon Jennings
#17 Jrue Holiday
#18 Ty Lawson
#19 Jeff Teague
#21 Darren Collison
#26 Taj Gibson
#27 DeMare Carroll
#28 Wayne Ellington
#29 Toney Douglas
#42 Patrick Beverley

Nine players still in the league. 
Four players?  Not.  Including, tah-dah BOTH of the KNICKS's 2009 reaches.

Well, reportedly NYK were considering Hill or Jennings.
But I do recall some scouts making a case for JRue who sounded intriguing.  Which is where I was leaning since I didn't want Hill and was wary of Jennings, a skinny chucker, who turned out pretty good his first few years.  But JRue was a just a default pick for me, and I'm no draftnik.

Knix did the same thing 3 years earlier in 2006 under Isiah where we took a raw F (Balkman #20) with the higher pick and then picked up PG scraps late (Mardy Collins #29) neatly avoiding better PG's such as Rondo #21, Lowry #24, Farmar #26.  And to compound the idiocy  Balkman most certainly would have been there at #29.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 28, 2020, 01:38:15 AM
Classy exit by Boston.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 28, 2020, 08:32:38 AM
Knix did the same thing 3 years earlier in 2006 under Isiah where we took a raw F (Balkman #20) with the higher pick and then picked up PG scraps late (Mardy Collins #29) neatly avoiding better PG's such as Rondo #21, Lowry #24, Farmar #26.  And to compound the idiocy  Balkman most certainly would have been there at #29.


I dont like Isiah's' front office work, you may recall, but this is an unfair comment
Title: Re: 2009 Draft...A Gift That Keeps Giving
Post by: bodiddley on September 28, 2020, 08:48:49 AM
Quote from: chipstern on September 27, 2020, 05:26:26 PM
#8 Jordan Hill
#9 DeMar DeRozan
#10 Brandon Jennings
#17 Jrue Holiday
#18 Ty Lawson
#29 Toney Douglas

Since Ty Law was mentioned.  Last week he got booted by his Chinese team for "insulting Chinese women."  First he declared on Instagram: "Chinese women got cakes on the low" which likely wouldn't get him in trouble since even I have no idea what that means.  Hell, it rather sounds like something from Chinese poorly translated into English.  But then two hours later TyLaw posted a pic of him sorta groping a Chinese girl in what seemed to be a strip club.

Reportedly he's now banned from playing in China.
Sensitive folks here.  Gotta follow the law, son.  And be more careful on social media -- or hell, just use a friend's account if you happen to be a public figure.

Ty Law has had alcohol problems, and apparently there was avid of him shouting and harassing some people at a Starbucks in Shanghai earlier this year, and it was presumed he'd been imbibing.  Not sure how many leagues are up and running, and willing to hire Americans these days.
Title: Re: 2009 Draft...A Gift That Keeps Giving
Post by: chipstern on September 28, 2020, 02:22:06 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 28, 2020, 08:48:49 AM
Quote from: chipstern on September 27, 2020, 05:26:26 PM
#8 Jordan Hill
#9 DeMar DeRozan
#10 Brandon Jennings
#17 Jrue Holiday
#18 Ty Lawson
#29 Toney Douglas

Since Ty Law was mentioned.  Last week he got booted by his Chinese team for "insulting Chinese women."  First he declared on Instagram: "Chinese women got cakes on the low" which likely wouldn't get him in trouble since even I have no idea what that means.  Hell, it rather sounds like something from Chinese poorly translated into English.  But then two hours later TyLaw posted a pic of him sorta groping a Chinese girl in what seemed to be a strip club.

Reportedly he's now banned from playing in China.
Sensitive folks here.  Gotta follow the law, son.  And be more careful on social media -- or hell, just use a friend's account if you happen to be a public figure.

Ty Law has had alcohol problems, and apparently there was avid of him shouting and harassing some people at a Starbucks in Shanghai earlier this year, and it was presumed he'd been imbibing.  Not sure how many leagues are up and running, and willing to hire Americans these days.

An educated guess. 

An old school, unshaved pudendum. 

Had a productive six year run for Denver before a precipitous decline in 2015, bouncing around to a few teams before landing in China.  One would think boozing had something to do with it from the sudden/sodden statistical decline. 

Speaking of Denver, I see Kenneth Faried also bolted for China. 
Title: Bringing The Heat
Post by: chipstern on September 28, 2020, 02:42:29 PM
Un grosso respecto for Pat Riley.

As per Coach Thibs, this is what consistent coaching, continuity, thoughtful drafting, canvasing the weeds for undrafted talent, player development and TEAM WORK looks like. 

Great Game 6.  The manner in which they put the Celtics away in the final stanzas of the fourth quarter was impressive, because the Celtics came to play and are a great team. 

Again, idly projecting, but when Thibs sees RJ and Taj, I suspect he is seeing Butler and Haslem. 

I am hoping, that Rose resists the urge to make a big splash, and instead opts for actual player development, and looks instead to the summer of 2021 to have something positive in the way of a reconstituted culture to sell to free agents.  EVEN THEN, I wouldn't go all in...I mean, Kawhi?  Anthony Davis?  Giannis?  New York?  Dolan?  Seriously? 

Player Development is clearly the default way to proceed, given our draft resources, and limited free agent prospects (although, having said that, Jerami Grant IS OPTING OUT, and will likelybe seeking Portis numbers, as will Harrell). 

In the here and now, speaking of Westchester and player development, I am quite keen to see Wooten, Brazdeikis and Harper get a shot at some floor time, presuming they have earned it. 

As for the November Draft going into 2021? 

There is a reasonable chance that Onyeka Okongwu, Tyrese Haliburton, Devin Vassell, Isaac Okoro could be on the board at #8. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 28, 2020, 02:51:23 PM
There is a reasonable chance that Onyeka Okongwu, Tyrese Haliburton, Devin Vassell, Isaac Okoro could be on the board at #8.



Ya think?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 28, 2020, 03:00:49 PM
I like about 8 guys in this draft

Happy if it goes this way

https://www.nbadraft.net/2020-extended-nba-mock-draft-2-0/
Title: Hedo Or Not To Do
Post by: chipstern on September 28, 2020, 04:26:19 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 28, 2020, 03:00:49 PM
I like about 8 guys in this draft

Happy if it goes this way

https://www.nbadraft.net/2020-extended-nba-mock-draft-2-0/

A BEST CASE SCENARIO
Would But That It Were So

8. New York Knicks

Deni Avdija

Not that he isn’t deserving of his own recognition and hype, but Avdija clearly benefits from the immense success of Luka Doncic. European players are once again in vogue as Doncic has set the world on fire becoming one of the best young players ever, drawing Magic Johnson comparisons, and making many wonder whether he ultimately will surpass Dirk to become the greatest European NBA player ever. Avdija is not Doncic, though he has some Doncic-like qualities with his feel and versatility. He’s similarly not a pure shooter, but he understands how to play the pick and roll game and is a high level competitor. Avdija is back underway in Europe having played a handful of games since late June (with the Israeli league resuming following the COVID-19 stoppage) and started out red hot, especially shooting, but his productivity trailed off some after 5 or so games as the team’s leading scorer.

Why the Knicks take Avdija: More bad news for Knicks fans as the team dropped from 6 to 8 with an unkind draw in the draft lottery. The good news however is that this is a year when the difference between drafting 3 and 8 is not so great. They could easily land a player at eight in this draft that will end up better than a handful of guys taken before him. But then again, it is the Knicks, and developing and keeping talent has proven difficult in recent years. Avdija could be a Danilo Gallinari level player if all goes well. He’s not the shooter of Gallo, but has has more all around skills and playmaking ability.

NBA Comparison: Hedo Turkoglu
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 28, 2020, 05:55:02 PM
Eh

Not so sure.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 28, 2020, 06:36:26 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on September 28, 2020, 05:55:02 PM
Eh

Not so sure.

Me either. 

Still, a skilled big wing. 
Title: NEW ONE !!!
Post by: carlos123 on September 28, 2020, 06:36:48 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on September 28, 2020, 05:55:02 PM
Eh

Not so sure.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3e3v_PfU_q78B3_w9q1FJpiwC4APIy04YG6HCGVf3LqBNO05a0N_hxqJGm4xUIrlddfkqm3rVcfeECtW6MK6TlCg1RAdlQxcrG2EdYAaGRbrFxvPfN3YRk9s0jl1XDiMha9d4dGUJxtmTy83Jkhglqo=w794-h548-no?authuser=0)

And Chamaco also says Free Portland, Free Louisville, Free Minneapolis, Free Los Angeles, Free New York City, Free San Francisco, Free Mar-A-Lago, Free ...Whatever ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 28, 2020, 07:11:01 PM
Doc out in LA

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29995811/doc-rivers-la-clippers-head-coach-sources-say (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29995811/doc-rivers-la-clippers-head-coach-sources-say)

Doc Rivers has stepped down as head coach of the LA Clippers in what chairman Steve Ballmer called a "mutual decision."
Title: Doc
Post by: carlos123 on September 28, 2020, 07:21:40 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on September 28, 2020, 07:11:01 PM
Doc out in LA

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29995811/doc-rivers-la-clippers-head-coach-sources-say (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29995811/doc-rivers-la-clippers-head-coach-sources-say)

Doc Rivers has stepped down as head coach of the LA Clippers in what chairman Steve Ballmer called a "mutual decision."

Maybe you take him back in Boston?

Clippers can hire Brad if you do.

Two good coaches in need of a change for two good teams that need a change too.

crazy, huh?
Title: Re: Doc
Post by: bankshot1 on September 28, 2020, 07:30:18 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on September 28, 2020, 07:21:40 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on September 28, 2020, 07:11:01 PM
Doc out in LA

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29995811/doc-rivers-la-clippers-head-coach-sources-say (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29995811/doc-rivers-la-clippers-head-coach-sources-say)

Doc Rivers has stepped down as head coach of the LA Clippers in what chairman Steve Ballmer called a "mutual decision."

Maybe you take him back in Boston?

Clippers can hire Brad if you do.

Two good coaches in need of a change for two good teams that need a change too.

crazy, huh?

Ubuntu2

I don't think so Carlos.

Doc left Boston because he didn't want to go through a rebuild. And wanted LA weather and Ballmer's money.

Sweet deal

I think Brad for all his weaknesses is safe for awhile.

I bet Doc spends Ballmer's severance on TNT or ESPN and on the golf course and contemplating something bigger than hoops. 

Title: Ok
Post by: carlos123 on September 28, 2020, 08:48:02 PM
Ok Bank, maybe in a couple of years.

Meanwhile, if Boston and Brad should part ways you guys can always hire Mike Miller.

Then I'd become a Celtics fan. Think about that!!!
Title: JVG
Post by: carlos123 on September 28, 2020, 11:07:40 PM
JVG to the Clips.
He won’t last more than 2 years.
Was a bad coach for the Knicks. Just got lucky when he was forced to play the guys he didn’t like, Camby and Spree, due to injuries to other players. Then he proceeded to ride Ewing and Larry into the ground at 48 minutes and a half a game. Once he had destroyed the team, he left.
Messed up with Houston too. They just took too long to get rid of him.
Fuck him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 29, 2020, 02:48:32 AM
Interesting move docking Doc.
I always wondered why the CP3-Blake-DeAndrethe Giant Clips never went far.
But this team was slapped together recently and was playing well despite key guys missing time.  So seems a little rushed to push him out.  But questions about why his good team tend to underperform in the playoffs.

Doc is a very good leader.  And has one the best staffs.  I'd give it another year, unless PG13 and Kawhi are unhappy.

Doc along with Ballmer completely turned around the image of Clipper basketball.   So I guess there's hope for Knick fans, the promise of what a new owner can bring ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 29, 2020, 11:04:10 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 29, 2020, 02:48:32 AM
Interesting move docking Doc.
I always wondered why the CP3-Blake-DeAndrethe Giant Clips never went far.
But this team was slapped together recently and was playing well despite key guys missing time.  So seems a little rushed to push him out.  But questions about why his good team tend to underperform in the playoffs.

Doc is a very good leader.  And has one the best staffs.  I'd give it another year, unless PG13 and Kawhi are unhappy.

Doc along with Ballmer completely turned around the image of Clipper basketball.   So I guess there's hope for Knick fans, the promise of what a new owner can bring ...

Kawhi

&

George

After the 2020-2021 seasons, both have player options. 

Given, both would be leaving like $36-38 million on the table, however, there would be no shortage of shooters...SUTORS 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 29, 2020, 12:10:13 PM
They didnt WORK together - likely they stay for the cash  then move their separate ways (and my guess is back east).

As Eddie Johnson said yesterday on Sirrius - the west only gets tougher.

One caller also killed Kawhi for first leaving a good situation in SA, then another good one in TOR.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 29, 2020, 12:36:35 PM
Elijah Hughes
Hughes is a 22 year old junior who lacks great upside but has a polished skill set. he has solid bounce with the ability to posterize opponents if they doze off. Hughes may struggle to convince teams that he is strong enough of a defender to warrant a first round pick, but he pops out on tape with his motor and skill level. Hughes may ultimately be a rotational player, but he has surprising athleticism and his shooting ability gives him solid potential as a scorer.

Why the Celtics take Elijah Hughes: The Celtics have three first rounders and may opt to move this one if no players they like fall to them at their pick. They are a team that is contending, or at least close to it, so it would make sense for them to target players that can contribute sooner than later, at least with some of their picks. Hughes figures to contribute faster than most, and with multiple picks, the Celtics could look for upside with early picks and instant contribution here


What would we offer Boston for the #30?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 29, 2020, 04:16:00 PM
Do the Knix actually need more young guys to develop?

We're trying to build around Mitch, RJB, maybe Knox, Franc, Dot.
Plus we'll have our #8 pick.   So that's a half dozen pups already.

Otherwise, a 2nd rounder would be cheaper to attain and sign.
And not guaranteed.

Might want to look for potential gems who go undrafted. 
2019 Undrafteds:
Laguentz Dort
Kendrick Nunn
Duncan Robinson had a breakout after just 15 cameos the year before
Etc.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 29, 2020, 04:59:22 PM
MY 12 FOR THE DRAFT


EDWARDS
https://www.nbadraft.net/players/anthony-edwards/

BALL
https://www.nbadraft.net/players/lamelo-ball/

AVDIJA
https://www.nbadraft.net/players/deni-avdija/

CAREY
https://www.nbadraft.net/players/vernon-carey/

ACHIUWA
https://www.nbadraft.net/players/precious-achiuwa/

ANTHONY
https://www.nbadraft.net/players/cole-anthony/

HAMPTON
https://www.nbadraft.net/players/rj-hampton/

TERRY
https://www.nbadraft.net/players/tyrell-terry/

REED
https://www.nbadraft.net/players/paul-reed/

QUICKLEY
https://www.nbadraft.net/players/immanuel-quickley/

PRITCHARD
https://www.nbadraft.net/players/payton-pritchard/

WINSTON
https://www.nbadraft.net/players/cassius-winston/


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 29, 2020, 07:42:28 PM
Most of them will likely get drafted. Well done.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 29, 2020, 08:07:04 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 29, 2020, 07:42:28 PM
Most of them will likely get drafted. Well done.

Haliburton

Hayes

Topin

Vassell

Okoro

Okongwu

Wiseman
Title: Spinning OR Grinning?
Post by: chipstern on September 29, 2020, 08:08:42 PM
Ian Begley: Tom Thibodeau noted that Julius Randle came to NY early to work with Knick coaches before Phase 1 individual workouts began last month. Thibodeau said Randle arrived in great shape and is a ‘pro’s pro.’ ‘Having that type of leadership is important to our team,” Thibodeau said. – via Twitter IanBegley
Title: Projections [Time On My Hands]
Post by: chipstern on September 29, 2020, 08:30:24 PM
C: Robinson

PF-C: Randle, Wooten

SF-PF:  Knox, Brazdeikis

SG-SF: Barrett, Bullock

PG-SG: Ntilikina, Smith, Harper

That Makes 10

Team Options: Gibson, Portis, Payton, Ellington

Free Agents: Dotson, Harkless

Decisions to be made in the way of our free agents. 

I like Portis, but I think that is pretty remote, particulary when $15 million could possibly, KNICK ON WOOD, get us Jerami Grant who can play/guard four positions. 

Out of the six options and free agents? 

My vote is for Gibson and Dotson. 

Thibs is such a Pat Riley man, I can't help thinking the Knicks will come to some sort of arrangment/better price with Gibson as a mentor, harbinger of the the culture to come, much as Udonis Hasslem on the Heat. 

And Dotson is a wing in the 3 & D mode, who cand man up on defense and hit the three.  Also, one of the few actual factual developmental achievements of the past three seasons, through thick and thin, health and hardship.

In the unlikely event we have a shot at Grant? 

Whom do we draft? 

Best available at the 8-spot. 

All of the projections go out the window if the Wolves and Warriors look to trade down, trade out.  Edwards might not be such a lock and is more likely to drop than Ball, who is very much a wild card.  Minny or GS could easily say, fuck it, we cannot pass on THIS Talent.  Long term, I think the idea of a Ball-Russell back court is more enticing than Edwards-Russell, because Ball would free up Russell to play off the ball, where he is capable and dangerous. 

I pray no one in The Rose Room is contemplating any of the goofy trades being floated for Paul or Westbrook.  Ball?  Mmmmmm.  Tempting.  If the price is not exhorbanant. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 29, 2020, 10:13:41 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 29, 2020, 08:07:04 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 29, 2020, 07:42:28 PM
Most of them will likely get drafted. Well done.



Haliburton

Hayes

Topin

Vassell

Okoro

Okongwu

Wiseman


What about them?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 30, 2020, 02:20:53 AM
Okongwu & Vassell sound like terrific competitors.
My two targets.  Though most drafts have Okongwu in the 5-7 range.

As for Randle, well everyone is in the greatest shape of their lives and 102% committed and smells like a rose in the off-season.  I recall long glowing articles about Jared Jeffries intensive summer workout regime. 

Summer NBA season is the equivalent of those Dvd's commentaries where an actor praises everyone else involved in the film and how great they were to work with, and what a great experience the whole project was.  Total fluffery. 

My theory is that with little to no actual team news, it's a chance for beat writers to ingratiate themselves with the team and players, and cultivate relationships for the future.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 30, 2020, 05:16:23 PM
I’d like to see Mitch Wooten Knox Barrett Ntilikina survive the offseason and get some run together as a unit. If Thibs and Rose wanted to give that a go, they’d have 4 or 5 months at least to develop individual skills, build bodies, and develop chemistry. You are looking at a very high defensive ceiling and potential for scoring in transition from this group. If Thibs can get all five guys to create and hit corner 3s, the unit has the potential to score decently as well. Creating threes involves screening, off ball movement, timely swings and kickouts. Mitch and Kenny might have to develop into reliable takers of those corner 3s, but they can be creators on some of those levels right away.
 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 30, 2020, 09:24:52 PM
GO HEAT!
Title: Call For Clipper Jane
Post by: chipstern on October 01, 2020, 12:11:39 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 30, 2020, 02:20:53 AM
Okongwu & Vassell sound like terrific competitors.
My two targets.  Though most drafts have Okongwu in the 5-7 range.

As for Randle, well everyone is in the greatest shape of their lives and 102% committed and smells like a rose in the off-season.  I recall long glowing articles about Jared Jeffries intensive summer workout regime. 

Summer NBA season is the equivalent of those Dvd's commentaries where an actor praises everyone else involved in the film and how great they were to work with, and what a great experience the whole project was.  Total fluffery. 

My theory is that with little to no actual team news, it's a chance for beat writers to ingratiate themselves with the team and players, and cultivate relationships for the future.

THAT WAS WEAK AND SELF AGGRANDIZING ON THE QUANTUM LEVEL OF KIID GOING ON ABOUT JORDAN HILL. 

You are creating a false relevancy between the skillsets of Jared Jeffries and Julian Randle? 

Wow.  Speaking of Summer NBA Season.  Apparently it afflicts online Forum pundits as well. 

Over the years, there have been players who triggered your disdain, activated your elusive gag reflext, and thus colored your analysis.  Jamal Crawford.  Zach Randolph.  Julius Randle. 

Jared Jeffries? 

And I'm supposed to take your assesments seriously after this? 

Where is ClipperJane when we really need her. 
Title: Re: 2009 Draft...A Gift That Keeps Giving
Post by: Kam on October 01, 2020, 02:05:19 AM
Quote from: chipstern on September 28, 2020, 02:22:06 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 28, 2020, 08:48:49 AM
Quote from: chipstern on September 27, 2020, 05:26:26 PM
#8 Jordan Hill
#9 DeMar DeRozan
#10 Brandon Jennings
#17 Jrue Holiday
#18 Ty Lawson
#29 Toney Douglas

Since Ty Law was mentioned.  Last week he got booted by his Chinese team for "insulting Chinese women."  First he declared on Instagram: "Chinese women got cakes on the low" which likely wouldn't get him in trouble since even I have no idea what that means.  Hell, it rather sounds like something from Chinese poorly translated into English.  But then two hours later TyLaw posted a pic of him sorta groping a Chinese girl in what seemed to be a strip club.

Reportedly he's now banned from playing in China.
Sensitive folks here.  Gotta follow the law, son.  And be more careful on social media -- or hell, just use a friend's account if you happen to be a public figure.

Ty Law has had alcohol problems, and apparently there was avid of him shouting and harassing some people at a Starbucks in Shanghai earlier this year, and it was presumed he'd been imbibing.  Not sure how many leagues are up and running, and willing to hire Americans these days.

An educated guess. 

An old school, unshaved pudendum. 

Had a productive six year run for Denver before a precipitous decline in 2015, bouncing around to a few teams before landing in China.  One would think boozing had something to do with it from the sudden/sodden statistical decline. 

Speaking of Denver, I see Kenneth Faried also bolted for China.

Cakes = Nice butt cheeks

The low = something most people don't know.


So it means: FYI some of these girls got nice ass if you didn't know
Title: Live & Learn [FYI]
Post by: chipstern on October 01, 2020, 10:01:55 AM
Nevertheless, referencing the southern extremeties.

Thanks, Kam. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 01, 2020, 10:55:44 AM
You totally missed the point.
Summer articles are fluff fluff fluff, and even a marginal talent like Jeffries was touted as having a great Summer
and in great shape and ready to contribute.  Maybe Randle is in great shape and focused, but usually out of the 100%
of the players who are said to be so in the Summer, it's roughly true of 10%.  Randle could use some body toning.

Yes, Randle is not my type of player, but I really tried to keep an open mind on him.  And was encouraged that he had
shot 3's relatively well the prior year.  But his 3's deserted him, and most such attempts last season made me cringe.
The Knix were a poor team and encouraged some of Randle's worst instincts -- such as bringing the ball upcourt and
calling his own number.

I still think he's a hard guy to fit in to a 5-man unit.  Which is also why it isn't easy to trade him.
He can beast smaller guys and has a soft touch.  Though those blind spins can be an adventure.
With more commitment on D, I could live with Randle.
If we keep Randle, Thibs should try to get Julius and Mitch working in tandem.
Though our G deficiency is going to thwart progress on the O.
Randle's near 20 & 10 was probably the most dispiriting I've seen.
Again, not all his fault, as our team was wonky, especially at G.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 01, 2020, 11:20:20 AM
Only knock on Thibs for me is that I feel Knicks need to create more effective OFFENSE to up their win total

But he did have the best of Derrick Rose, so that appears to be a feather in Thibs cap we can be happy about

Randle and Knox learned very little defense at Ky.  At least Barrett has a bit of a background having played for K - but that was just the one year - and AAU coaches sure didnt coach him up in that aspect prior to collegiate ball

3-4 year collegians who played in solid defensive systems would be good targets - though of course that SPECIAL type O guy is always desirable.

At 8, who is special on that side of the ball?   That's the important Q.  Is Avdija even that guy if he falls?
Title: Charles Dolan
Post by: carlos123 on October 01, 2020, 05:55:02 PM
Here Are the Billionaires Backing Donald Trump’s Campaign

(https://www3.forbes.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/22.-Charles-_-Helen-Dolan.jpg)

#29 Charles & Helen Dolan

Net worth: $4.7 billion
Source of wealth: Cable television
Contributions: $125,000
Gave to 2016 Trump campaign? No

Cable pioneer Charles Dolan, along with his wife Helen and 6 children, owns controlling stakes in AMC Networks and The Madison Square Garden Company. Dolan sold Cablevision, the cable giant he launched in 1973 with 1,500 customers, to billionaire Patrick Drahi’s Altice for $17.7 billion in 2016. After dropping out of John Carroll University, the Cleveland native got his start creating sports newsreels for TV stations from his home. He moved to New York in 1952, making industrial films before wiring lower Manhattan with cable and founding HBO’s predecessor, which he sold in 1973. He is the chairman emeritus of the Lustgarten Foundation, the largest private funder of pancreatic cancer research in the world.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 01, 2020, 06:13:34 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 01, 2020, 10:55:44 AM
You totally missed the point.
Summer articles are fluff fluff fluff, and even a marginal talent like Jeffries was touted as having a great Summer
and in great shape and ready to contribute.  Maybe Randle is in great shape and focused, but usually out of the 100%
of the players who are said to be so in the Summer, it's roughly true of 10%.  Randle could use some body toning.

Yes, Randle is not my type of player, but I really tried to keep an open mind on him.  And was encouraged that he had
shot 3's relatively well the prior year.  But his 3's deserted him, and most such attempts last season made me cringe.
The Knix were a poor team and encouraged some of Randle's worst instincts -- such as bringing the ball upcourt and
calling his own number.

I still think he's a hard guy to fit in to a 5-man unit.  Which is also why it isn't easy to trade him.
He can beast smaller guys and has a soft touch.  Though those blind spins can be an adventure.
With more commitment on D, I could live with Randle.
If we keep Randle, Thibs should try to get Julius and Mitch working in tandem.
Though our G deficiency is going to thwart progress on the O.
Randle's near 20 & 10 was probably the most dispiriting I've seen.
Again, not all his fault, as our team was wonky, especially at G.

No, your slow news day revelations did not elude me. 

Nor your willingness to deploy it in order to weaponize your disdain for a player who triggers your gag reflex, one which is shared by other forumites. 

I do not agree on Randle any more than I did on Jamal and Zach, and I was really bugged by invoking Jared Jefferies, which I took to be a cheap shot/low blow. 

The manner in which Fizz deployed him was fucking absurd, and did neither Julius nor the Knicks any favors.  Nor was the chaotic, night by night confusion of a roster over crowded with redundancies, and lacking in balance. 

And your insistence that Julius could use some body toniing, well, as we say in poker, THAT IS A TELL.  Not of Julius, but of you.  And not simply a cheap shot, but an utter absurdity.  But hey, don't let that stop you in pursuit of an argument. 

We've been friends for a long time, so this too shall pass, but in elucidating your visions of perfection, one you share with other Knicks fans, there is a tendency to demonize Randle, accentuate his shortcomings while overlooking his strengths, as if a double double night after night is just an illusion. 

. 
Title: PS
Post by: chipstern on October 01, 2020, 06:44:16 PM
Is Thibs playing a disingenuous double game with Julius to boost his trade value?

Perhaps. 

That however, is not my reading of Thibs, as my key takeaway from his comments were what he perceived to be Randle's leadership. 

CLEARLY, a coach's job is to create a setting in which the Knicks accentuate Julius' strengths while papering over his weaknesses, and seeking ways to make his pairing with Robinson more effective...STAY TUNED.  Everyone puts that on Julius.  Well, if Mitchell could develp and deploy an effective jumper from 12-18 feet, that would open up driving lanes, and pick and roll possibilitiesfor both Mitchell and Randle, as lanes to the hoop become more tenable, and defenders could no longer cheat off of them.

Other things that could make Julius more effective? 

Outside shooting and more outside shooting, so he is not facing double and triple teams down in low post-midrange zone. 

Whether that comes from Knox and Bullock and Barrett and Brazdeikis?  Not looking good at the moment. 

And of course, some reliable, dependable PG rudder, preferably, while offering dependable outside shooting and drive to the lane threats.  Again, not looking all that clear at the moment. 

Reliable outside shooting with a clear and present and persistent-consistent threat of three pointers from the corner?  PGs who can guide, score, facilitate ball movement, motion, spacing and easy baskets?  Development of our miracle second rounder at center and our core lottery picks Ntilikina, Knox and Barret,(perhaps even our other second rounders Dotson and Brazdeikis). 

Our undrafted G-Leaguers Wooten and Harper. 

And God only knows how the #8, #27 and #38 picks play out. 

Among players who might slip, and whom intrigue ME, there are questions about Haliburton's slender frame, but he could give us a good defender capable of playing point or off guard and hitting threes, though his abillity to create for himself is also an issue.  Vassell could prove a 3 & D wing with defensive tenacity and a terrific three-point stroke. 

Not sure the #1 or #2 picks will be in play, least ways, they would prove costly. 

I believe Ball is the #1 pick, not Edwards.  Would Golden State pass on Edwards to choose Wiseman or even Avdija (though with Wiggins in tow, not sure how THAT would play out, even in the small ball era. 

After the first three picks, the next ten are anyone's guess.  Conceivably both Killian Hayes and Haliburton could be gone by the time we pick. 

In any event, the narrative in which somehow it is Julius Randle's failings which are dragging us down are highly suspect. 

It's up to Thibs to sort it all out, and opotimize what we have. 

Again, his comments about Randle's leadership are interesting. 

Title: Doc 2.1
Post by: chipstern on October 01, 2020, 06:58:55 PM
After a rapid courtship and negotiation, Doc Rivers has reached agreement on a deal to become the next coach of the Philadelphia 76ers, sources told ESPN on Thursday. Rivers’ deal with the Sixers comes only three days after departing the LA Clippers — and returns him to the Atlantic Division where he’ll be a principal rival of the Boston Celtics, where Rivers won an NBA title in 2009 as coach. – via Adrian Wojnarowski @ ESPN
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 01, 2020, 10:27:35 PM
Vernon Carey
Carey was extremely steady all year for Duke. He lacks elite speed and athleticism, but has a lot of smoothness to his game with touch to finish and shows a no nonsense approach. He came into college as one of the highest rated recruits, having spent time as the top player in his class according to certain recruiting analysts. He shot very few three pointers and there’s still some question about how well he will be able to extend his shot out to the perimeter and become an effective face up scorer. But there are signs that he can improve in this area, as he has good form and solid fundamentals in his shooting stroke. Carey has decent length at 6’10 in shoes with a 7’1 wingspan.

Why the Heat take Vernon Carey: The Heat made a big splash with their rookie additions in 2019, all of which were guards (Kendrick Nunn, Tyler Herro, and Duncan Robinson) that contributed. if they hold onto the 20th pick, there’s a good chance that they will look at adding a big that the can develop behind and complement the skill set of Bam Adebayo. Point guard is another possibility. Carey still needs to develop as a shooter, but the upside is there for him to become a steal in the latter half of the first round



I will laugh so hard if this happens
Title: DAFT LOTTERY--Donald Trump, Super Spreader Editon
Post by: chipstern on October 02, 2020, 12:06:55 AM
The Nesting Doll Of Doom That Is Donald Trump Just Won The DAFT LOTTERY.

Hope Hicks Tested Positive This Morning For COVID-19, She Is Symptomatic, And The Belligerent, Non-Mask Wearing Toddler Has Now Begun The Quarrantine Process.

(https://thegadgetflow.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Trump-Russian-Matryoshka-Nesting-Dolls-02.jpg)

But Not Before A Possibly Symptomatic Presidential Visit To His Bedminster Club This Afternoon For A Fundraiser.

And an Al Smith Dinner where Trump, without ironty, insisted that "The end of the pandemic is in sight." 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-1TBu-J01g (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-1TBu-J01g)


Title: Melania Doesn't Give A Fuck, Surprise Surprise
Post by: chipstern on October 02, 2020, 12:48:01 AM
https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/10/02/stephanie-winston-wolkoff-ac360-melania-legacy-sot-vpx.cnn (https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/10/02/stephanie-winston-wolkoff-ac360-melania-legacy-sot-vpx.cnn)

Listen for yourself, folks.
Title: ROFL
Post by: lesterluv on October 02, 2020, 02:13:27 PM
See ya soon, little buddy!

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EjV9AcJWAAI2GqR?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: MEANWHILE
Post by: carlos123 on October 02, 2020, 10:17:31 PM
Chamaco Cartero is praying ...

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3dmWO21T8tHrYY36Dk2az-p_7a34IlyXPLwFAnBYj8fNM7MS5KabOBRxDKPwI-XKsHMARodwwhPrLQT3GhFTP-w4yHhRWP1SqGRyH8uVMO3E4AtHErX44wyXxCR3qZrDFXs9gdhvMAql4DifHAluiVF=w418-h544-no?authuser=0)

Maybe he'll change his siggy now, who knows?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 03, 2020, 01:42:11 AM
Props to the Heat for not folding.
Title: The Supreme (Court) Super Spreader Event
Post by: lesterluv on October 03, 2020, 02:22:59 AM
even I couldn't have imagined a finer finale for Donald the ass-clown's summer death tour for people of kiid's IQ only:

23 POSITIVE COVID TESTS: 1+2. President & Melania Trump 3. Bill Stepien, Trump campaign mgr 4. Hope Hicks 5. Kellyanne Conway 6. Sen. Mike Lee 7. Sen. Thom Tillis 8. Ronna McDaniel 9. Notre Dame Pres. Jenkins 10-12. Three WH reporters 13-23. Eleven staffers frm Cleveland debate

LMAO......AND COUNTING
Title: The Train Keepsa Roling...
Post by: lesterluv on October 03, 2020, 02:10:18 PM
add, Really Really LMFAO, add


Chris Christie

to the as freaking ass-hat stoopid as Kiid, just got me some of that rona via the Supreme Court Super Spreader Event Aftermath   list.

(he really does need to hook up with Herman, that one, really does)
Title: come on down to the Kiid Carter ass-clown I am a fucking moron club:
Post by: lesterluv on October 03, 2020, 02:12:44 PM
Senator Ron Johnson



Anybody counting...? Talk about a blow out finish to the tour! Yippppppeee aye aaaaay.............
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 03, 2020, 03:37:42 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 03, 2020, 01:42:11 AM
Props to the Heat for not folding.

yup, they didn't..but they're absolutely f'd. Shame about those injuries. Got to savor these last two games before the long wait begins again.
Title: Re: come on down to the Kiid Carter ass-clown I am a fucking moron club:
Post by: facilitatorn on October 03, 2020, 05:35:35 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on October 03, 2020, 02:12:44 PM
Senator Ron Johnson



Anybody counting...? Talk about a blow out finish to the tour! Yippppppeee aye aaaaay.............

Every story like this, involving assaults on security, ethics, honesty, legality, norms, and common sense since the advent of trumpistan, the republican junta paradise, has emerged like an iceberg with only ten percent initially visible above the waves.

Sloppiness, dishonesty, and a boundless sense of entitlement on the part of the principals, combined with very basic virology and immunology, suggest this story has further chapters.
Title: Further chapters
Post by: carlos123 on October 03, 2020, 09:19:51 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 03, 2020, 05:35:35 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on October 03, 2020, 02:12:44 PM
Senator Ron Johnson



Anybody counting...? Talk about a blow out finish to the tour! Yippppppeee aye aaaaay.............

Every story like this, involving assaults on security, ethics, honesty, legality, norms, and common sense since the advent of trumpistan, the republican junta paradise, has emerged like an iceberg with only ten percent initially visible above the waves.

Sloppiness, dishonesty, and a boundless sense of entitlement on the part of the principals, combined with very basic virology and immunology, suggest this story has further chapters.

Further chapters indeed. They'll install their new SC Justice with a virtual hearing.

We won't have peaceful elections.

And if they don't manage to steal them, they'll contest them and appeal to the 6-3 Supreme Court.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 03, 2020, 11:48:04 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on October 03, 2020, 03:37:42 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 03, 2020, 01:42:11 AM
Props to the Heat for not folding.

yup, they didn't..but they're absolutely f'd. Shame about those injuries. Got to savor these last two games before the long wait begins again.

How long do you think the wait will be? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 04, 2020, 10:09:54 AM
Don't know, but pretty sure Silver would rather push it out and avoid another bubble. So really depends on how the pandemic is managed. Which depends on sane leadership. Which depends on Nov. 4th. Which depends on whether the steal-the-election tactics succeed.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 04, 2020, 02:52:17 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on October 04, 2020, 10:09:54 AM
Don't know, but pretty sure Silver would rather push it out and avoid another bubble. So really depends on how the pandemic is managed. Which depends on sane leadership. Which depends on Nov. 4th. Which depends on whether the steal-the-election tactics succeed.

Wow thats heavy.  I hope they start by Christmas.  Even if they have to do a dystopian bubble again, or maybe two bubbles, one per conference and kinda go old school where you only plan in conference until the finals where each conference winner plays each other.  By then it would be around Jun/July and maybe things have improved enough to have the games attended by fans.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 04, 2020, 02:56:17 PM
Hield reportedly avoiding Coach Walton.
Hield wants out.  Big contract kicks in next year, 4 years starting at $25M which drops down to $19M the final year.

SAC could trade Hield.  Or Knix could offer Bogdanovich a hefty contract to get him as a FA, so Hield could return as a SAC starter. 

Bogdanovich a more rounded player, with a better handle and passing than Hield. 
Hield might need more structure than the Knix dystopia provides.  Bogman should be cheaper as well.  Hield a knockdown shooter when locked in.

Getting one of Bogdanovich/Hield would give us a credible outside shooter.
Would move RJB primarily to the 3, and squeeze Knox a bit in the rotation.

Then Knix wouldn't draft Halliburton and not sure how Vassell fits.  Though I'd still take him if Okongwu is gone.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 04, 2020, 05:50:29 PM
Then Knix wouldn't draft Halliburton and not sure how Vassell fits.  Though I'd still take him if Okongwu is gone.



Knicks roster improvement is meaningless without a lead guard - and adding Hield leaves it more certain we dont keep Elf.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 04, 2020, 07:07:47 PM
Knix certainly need a starting caliber PG.
But we also need bona fide starters elsewhere, and shooters and defenders.
One reason I like Bogdanovich is he can create and pass.  So he can help a PG, whereas Hield is primarily just a bomber.

Without moving up, i don't see NYK drafting a PG at 8.  There could be a decent PG available with the later pick.  A number of small quick PG expected to go in the 20's.  But that likely won't yield an immediate starter, if a starter at all.

As for shooters, I think Gallo is too old and injury prone for us, but thought this write-up was interesting.  Two playoffs in a row, Gallo shrank:

Quote
The 32-year-old Gallinari put up great numbers in a rare healthy regular season for the Thunder this year but ran into some serious issues in the playoffs. Maybe it was just a bad matchup against the Houston Rockets, but Gallinari all but disappeared for large stretches of games throughout the seven-game series. His scoring average dropped from 18.5 points per game in the regular season to 15 in the playoffs, and his decline in efficiency was catastrophic -- going from 44 percent from the field and 41 percent on 3-pointers during the regular season to 41 percent field goals and 32 percent on 3-pointers.

Gallinari experienced similar struggles last postseason as a member of the Los Angeles Clippers (35 percent field goals, 30 percent 3-pointers), so prospective front offices might think twice about breaking the bank for the 6-10 forward if they're looking to make a deep playoff run.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 04, 2020, 07:30:16 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 04, 2020, 05:50:29 PM
Then Knix wouldn't draft Halliburton and not sure how Vassell fits.  Though I'd still take him if Okongwu is gone.



Knicks roster improvement is meaningless without a lead guard - and adding Hield leaves it more certain we dont keep Elf.

Bogdanovich is a great outside shooter, a level below Hield, but no slouch and reputed to be a significantly better defender, and capable of being a facilitator as well as a scoring wing. 

AND an unrestricted FA.  Hield would cost in terms of assets, and he seems to be something of a....oh, hig maintenance cat.  BUT MY GOD CAN HE EVER SHOOT.   

If [IF] the Knicks were to have a shot at Bogdonavich, he and RJ would give them coverage at the 2 & 3, and Brazdeikis is still to heard from.  Let alone Bullock. 

Haliburton can play at the 2 as well as the lead guard.  I suspect Detroit is going to jump on him. 

At #8 the Knicks could be looking at Okongwu, Vassell, Okoro and Williams. 

If Hayes and/or Haliburton drops to #8, well, that would be a nice problem to have. 

I reckon the Knicks will have some sort of idea as to trades and free agents going into the draft. 

And in terms of a PG, Knicks could wait until #27, or make a move to get another#1 in between #8 and #27, perhaps dangling one of their Dallas picks and cash consideraikons.

I suspect it comes down to Vassell or Okoro.  Thibs' choice.  Vassell is a good defender and can shoot the lights out.  Okoro is considered a great defender, an inch shorter, but perhaps a bit more heft. 

As for Knox?  I suspect in the small ball epoch, he is being tasked with being a 4 and a 3. 

Do we keep Randle?  Who knows.  Wooten will be given a long look as a center and power forward. 

We have options it would seem. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 04, 2020, 07:39:06 PM
I suspect it comes down to Vassell or Okoro.  Thibs' choice.  Vassell is a good defender and can shoot the lights out.  Okoro is considered a great defender, an inch shorter, but perhaps a bit more heft.


heh

whothefuckknows?

Leon's choice - small correction


A trade down solves some things

You take the PG who would not be there at 27 and is not worthy of the 8.

Hmmmmm - who ever could I mean?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 04, 2020, 07:50:40 PM
Maybe our resident Bostonian has an opinion on moving up from 14
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 04, 2020, 08:05:40 PM
Trading down form #8 sounds depressing.  You want Cole Anthony?  Double yikes.

I much prefer getting a quality pick at #8 and trying to trade up from 27 and get one of the many PG's slated to go in the 20's.

But if the Knix have a target and feel strongly, I guess you make whatever move you feel is warranted.   In other words, i don't know much about these players to have a strong opinion.

Killian Hayes certainly moved up.  I haven't seen Okongwu dropping below 7 on any mock.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 04, 2020, 08:15:02 PM
Anthony.  Yes.  On my list.

Has to be a good deal though - and even if Celts gave us 14, no guarantee he or V Carey are there

Aaron Nesmith likely the best sniper in the draft.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 04, 2020, 09:55:30 PM
no matter how f'd they are, still such a pleasure watching Jimmy Butler and this Spoelstra coached team
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 04, 2020, 10:17:48 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 04, 2020, 02:52:17 PM


Wow thats heavy.  I hope they start by Christmas.  Even if they have to do a dystopian bubble again, or maybe two bubbles, one per conference and kinda go old school where you only plan in conference until the finals where each conference winner plays each other.  By then it would be around Jun/July and maybe things have improved enough to have the games attended by fans.

Mental health. The players. Remember, that was just 8 regular season games inside the bubble + the playoffs and plenty of the players were hurting and cracking. It's not normal. It's hard. No matter how cushy that bubble is. Now think about once you add in the delete 8 and all the soft shells on those rosters. Imagine D. Smith jr. He'd lose it first week. Odds improve greatly for earlier if the traitorous fat orange piece of shit loses or croaks, but Silver will still rather wait for something closer to normal, imho.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 04, 2020, 10:55:53 PM
Hey Les made a nice point

Fun watching Bank's guys Herro and Olynyk get it done
Title: Re: MEANWHILE
Post by: carlos123 on October 04, 2020, 11:26:31 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on October 02, 2020, 10:17:31 PM
Chamaco Cartero is praying ...

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3dmWO21T8tHrYY36Dk2az-p_7a34IlyXPLwFAnBYj8fNM7MS5KabOBRxDKPwI-XKsHMARodwwhPrLQT3GhFTP-w4yHhRWP1SqGRyH8uVMO3E4AtHErX44wyXxCR3qZrDFXs9gdhvMAql4DifHAluiVF=w418-h544-no?authuser=0)

Maybe he'll change his siggy now, who knows?

He did!

Still VERY prayerful, now “all of DC”.

Chamaco, I’m DOMINATING and CONTROLLING you.

Good boy!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on October 04, 2020, 11:29:46 PM
Bank's guys?

I think kid thinks he's mocking me for being a Celts fan, but as I do not understand the workings of the mind of a pre-pubescent moron, I'm not sure.

and isn't Jae one of my guys too?

Great job by Butler carrying the Heat tonight. 
Title: Chamaco Cartero
Post by: carlos123 on October 04, 2020, 11:37:13 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on October 04, 2020, 11:29:46 PM
Bank's guys?

I think kid thinks he's mocking me for being a Celts fan, but as I do not understand the workings of the mind of a pre-pubescent moron, I'm not sure.

and isn't Jae one of my guys too?

Great job by Butler carrying the Heat tonight.

He’s praying for you too.

But he may change his siggy again.

Like I said before, who knows?

You know, I’m making him very nervous 😬 😩
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 05, 2020, 01:36:31 AM
According to

@EliasSports

Jimmy Butler scored or assisted on 73 points, tied for the 2nd-most in an NBA Finals game in league history. (Walt Frazier, 74)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 05, 2020, 01:52:29 AM
Kinda want the Heat to make a series of it now.

No fucking trade downs. This is an 11 or 12 player draft, with nobody so good you can’t get a tested version of them in free agency even from below the top tier free agents. I’m in favor of consolidating lower assets possibly w vets and future assets for vets more useful to us and fewer but better picks coming back.

Take 8. Look for a consolidation trade. Sign an FA or two as good or better than what you expect the pick to be.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 05, 2020, 02:11:26 AM
Didn't watch the game. How was AD a -26?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 05, 2020, 04:02:16 AM
Myers Leonard outplayed him.
Anyone interested in My Leo as a FA for $8M?
Seriously though, AD was mostly AWOL.

I'd have to go back to see how MIA took him out of the action on D, but I think having to guard first My Leonard then Olynyk took AD away from the rim and out of most plays.  He only had 5 boards.  I think the early foul trouble and turnovers sapped his assertiveness and he became a non-factor.  His mind got injured.

Olynyk is a crafty scorer.  Gave Heat extra scoring when Hero Robinson were struggling.  But Herro came through in the 4Q with some tough buckets.  And Jimmy Buckets was just great.  I really liked how MIA would switch Robinson out on LeBJ early on screens, and then when LeBJ was ready to attack, MIA would re-switch with Robinson scrambling back to his man and Butler returning to LBJ.

A 40 pt, 45 minute trip-dub while guarding LeBronco and stunting back to recover switches!  You could see Butler gassed a few times in the 4Q.  Got breathers on his many FT attempts.

Anyone notice that LeBJ sucked 4Q.  Above the 10 min mark Crowder burned him backdoor, as LeBJ continued to guard air in the corner for a couple of seconds.  Then LeBJ had a couple of travels mid-quarter.  Looked like he took 4 steps on the drive against Herro, and then soon after I was yelling travel at the monitor before Breen confirmed the call, as LBJ took a hop step dribbled once more than drove to the rim.  And down around the 3 mark, Olynyk nearly sealed it by poking the ball away form an unaware LeBJ who was bringing the ball upcourt surveying the .. hey where'd the ball go ...

Jimmy Butler just dominated a Finals game.   He's on that level.
Only the other MaMo kept the Lakes in it with his 3-point shooting.
Excellent win for MIA.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 05, 2020, 09:37:36 AM
Miami plays zone

LeBron down a notch for me last night with his antics, sure to draw a technical by other players.

Still a big supporter of his, of course.

LBJ being told he isn't champ this year would be like telling Trump he is no longer President.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 05, 2020, 09:42:41 AM
Good to see JR nail a three.



(and then clank a couple others)

Strange Vogel rotations.  Likely to be an issue should Miami  win another.

Lone voice in discussion the other day at PT, who said Miami would still win 1 or 2 games at least after the injuries.

I own that office like I do this space

Heh

Title: lol, the only things you own are your rectum and the head that's stuck up in it
Post by: lesterluv on October 05, 2020, 12:12:49 PM
Kayleigh McEnany, come on down......


(https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2020/10/05/gettyimages-1228848321_custom-9e6ad89e90ca3ca81fb151a37c3050546cd8a92f-s800-c85.jpg)

Title: 😄😂🤣
Post by: carlos123 on October 05, 2020, 12:52:22 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 05, 2020, 09:42:41 AM

I own that office like I do this space

Heh

LMAO

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3dZs79NWcrZdkOJKLRmszJT477RnOxyWHkcPafhhkfm_8IqYdY1W8BenOUpXTbI-eKtI9Hanp1I5IMjnyQ2mIYBSwEWENc4TnhVBTQxdzsyzGg22jRSPaUejAJelI7Z5RCRiIGy-INbZ3ydddJ7SiCu=w323-h548-no?authuser=0)

No, Chamaco, you don't own ANYTHING. Well, ok, like Les said, you own your rectum and the head that's stuck up in it.

Actually, I OWN YOU, That's why you switched from the prayerful Chamaaco (double i in kiid) to the Free-Portland Chamaco (kid, single i).

LMAO

And Chamaco also says Free Portland, Free Louisville, Free Minneapolis, Free Los Angeles, Free New York City, Free San Francisco, Free Mar-A-Lago, Free ...Whatever ...


PS. Les, you my favorite doggie.
Title: Speaking of which ...
Post by: carlos123 on October 05, 2020, 12:59:53 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 05, 2020, 09:37:36 AM
LBJ being told he isn't champ this year would be like telling Trump he is no longer President.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3e00HxfGt8lzueFHzWlikLIhwbyZVH6DxRp8OnBTV_nbVPHYviQnTlL65peZoJyQjzNTkM37ne5KUVzY6gBDYFe2odMHASmPhZWiu_GcTC4N0uramu3jrXsAM2E8S5nNseikyiQFgweU2OO1Y3wCs9M=w649-h757-no?authuser=0)

She looks pretty happy, no?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 05, 2020, 03:29:15 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 05, 2020, 02:11:26 AM
Didn't watch the game. How was AD a -26?

Mostly born of 2 stretches.

Early game, where Heat took nice lead - then AD wasn't on the court when LA charged back, since he was in foul trouble

Then end of game Heat pulled away and AD was on the court.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 05, 2020, 03:30:02 PM
Or - I may be wrong - in which case forum killer Bank will be around to correct me
Title: Co-Owners
Post by: carlos123 on October 05, 2020, 03:38:17 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 05, 2020, 03:30:02 PM
Or - I may be wrong - in which case forum killer Bank will be around to correct me
- Prayers for all of DC -

True, Bank also owns you, as do Les, Chip, Fac, ...mostly ALL OF US HERE.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 05, 2020, 04:25:24 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 05, 2020, 09:37:36 AM
Miami plays zone

LeBron down a notch for me last night with his antics, sure to draw a technical by other players.

Still a big supporter of his, of course.

LBJ being told he isn't champ this year would be like telling Trump he is no longer President.

LBJ won his contests. When LBJ loses by 3 million points no one confuses it with a win.

LBJ will always be a real champ. Trump will never be a real president.

Continue, though with your full throated embrace of the fugazi.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 06, 2020, 10:57:22 AM
love this headline: ‘Epidemiologists just wanna vomit’: Doctors disturbed after Trump removes his mask at the White House

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/10/06/trump-coronavirus-mask-doctors/?utm_campaign=wp_main&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR0Czv6ucTpaxF-ndT8iOL-JHvhH5DyVdOEFv2X35i73w5DHQqxrq2cJ8P4 (https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/10/06/trump-coronavirus-mask-doctors/?utm_campaign=wp_main&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR0Czv6ucTpaxF-ndT8iOL-JHvhH5DyVdOEFv2X35i73w5DHQqxrq2cJ8P4)

and kiid was worried about the homeless folks not getting the info...lmao
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 06, 2020, 11:32:50 AM
Good morning, Les

That's a pay site.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 06, 2020, 12:03:18 PM
lol, my bad! I carelessly forgot the homeless AND indigent issue. Here's the piece, though it's really the headline I love:





Shortly after being discharged from the hospital treating him for the novel coronavirus, President Donald Trump on Monday climbed onto a White House balcony — and then peeled off his mask to salute Marine One as it flew away. After waving, Trump turned to go inside, still maskless.

Following a weekend of mounting horror among medical professionals and commentators fretting over Trump's handling of his own infection, his actions Monday — particularly removing his mask and walking into a room frequented by White House staff — left them worried and frustrated yet again.

“What White House staffer would still wanna go to work tomorrow???” Eric Feigl-Ding, an epidemiologist and health economist with the Federation of American Scientists, said in a tweet Monday night. “Epidemiologists just wanna vomit.”

Dozens of medical professionals and commentators echoed Feigl-Ding's concerns Monday night, slamming the president for posing and then reentering the White House without a mask even though he is still suffering symptoms of covid-19.

Some medical experts were not just concerned for White House staff, but for the president himself.

Ilan Schwartz, an assistant professor at the University of Alberta's division of infectious diseases, said the president appeared to be struggling to breathe in a brief clip that showed him standing outside the White House.....

CNN's chief medical correspondent Sanjay Gupta was also among the doctors disturbed by the president's actions on Monday.

“There is stuff that is pretty reckless, but at some point it’s just becoming absurd,” Gupta said, according to a tweet shared by one of his colleagues at CNN. “A person with known contagious deadly disease — without a mask on — is walking into the residence. Other people are around him.”

The heightened risk of coronavirus for people working within the White House has had many on high-alert as the virus spread quickly among individuals who had close contact with Trump last week. At least 10 people who attended a ceremony in the Rose Garden last week to mark the Supreme Court nomination of Amy Coney Barrett have since tested positive for the virus.

That risk has been particularly concerning for the staff at the White House residence, where Trump and first lady Melania Trump, who has also tested positive for the virus, live. Many of the ushers, butlers, housekeepers, cooks and other employees who work there are older Black and Latino people, The Washington Post reported, which may put them at a higher risk of potentially deadly complications from the virus.

» READ MORE: White House staff, Secret Service eye coronavirus with fear, anger

At least two housekeepers have tested positive for the virus in recent weeks, and workers in the residence have been encouraged to use "discretion" in speaking about their exposure to the disease.

The controversial moment when President Trump entered the White House without his mask reverberated beyond the medical community Monday night.

MSNBC host Joy Reid called the president "Typhoid Trump," a reference to an asymptomatic woman known as "Typhoid Mary," who unwittingly spread typhoid fever to dozens of people.

“Have to admit I was thrown tonight by the hideous display Trump made of himself tonight, taking his mask off at the White House, with people around whom he could infect,” Reid said in a tweet.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 06, 2020, 12:06:19 PM
Simply copy the main part of the headline, paste it into google and voila,
usually plenty of other sites have the same article.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/twitter-reaction-trump-face-mask-white-house-covid_n_5f7bbc34c5b60c6bcc60acc4

https://www.inquirer.com/health/coronavirus/donald-trump-coronavirus-mask-removal-angers-epidemiologists-doctors-20201006.html

The Boston Globe had it too, but they make me take off my adblocker, which is fair enough, but a tiny hassle.

It's a pretty simple work around for pay sites.

I also find it easy to simply stop WaPo or NYT from loading before the paywall drops down, but that's probably courtesy of China throttling international websites.
Title: Re: Co-Owners
Post by: bankshot1 on October 06, 2020, 12:13:22 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on October 05, 2020, 03:38:17 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 05, 2020, 03:30:02 PM
Or - I may be wrong - in which case forum killer Bank will be around to correct me
- Prayers for all of DC -

True, Bank also owns you, as do Les, Chip, Fac, ...mostly ALL OF US HERE.

Carlos-kid seems upset at me again.

He was posting incorrect results about his picks in the football forum, and I called him out about it.

It was pretty funny, he admitted what I posted occured but he blamed me for his lies.

whaddya gonna do?

GO HEAT!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 06, 2020, 01:20:42 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 06, 2020, 12:06:19 PM
Simply copy the main part of the headline, paste it into google and voila,
usually plenty of other sites have the same article.

Also, opening a news site in an incognito window is usually good for a couple of reads.


**** Come on Down, part 39: Joint Chiefs of Staff all sent packing into quarantine, lol, #TrumpVirus
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 06, 2020, 04:27:30 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 06, 2020, 12:06:19 PM
Simply copy the main part of the headline, paste it into google and voila,
usually plenty of other sites have the same article.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/twitter-reaction-trump-face-mask-white-house-covid_n_5f7bbc34c5b60c6bcc60acc4

https://www.inquirer.com/health/coronavirus/donald-trump-coronavirus-mask-removal-angers-epidemiologists-doctors-20201006.html

The Boston Globe had it too, but they make me take off my adblocker, which is fair enough, but a tiny hassle.

It's a pretty simple work around for pay sites.

I also find it easy to simply stop WaPo or NYT from loading before the paywall drops down, but that's probably courtesy of China throttling international websites.

I’m assuming you’ve not spent a lot of time recently in the type of New Jersey slum frequented by Kiid and haven’t been able to stay abreast of the latest colloquialisms. “Pay site” is what the lower imbeciles are saying When they jam their grubby fingers in their ears and chant, “nah nah nah nah nah can’t hear you” over and over again.

Some have speculated its part of a white fragility problem, like trump’s elaborate public suicide.

With these pop fad phenomena, who can really say?
Title: Scott Perry
Post by: chipstern on October 06, 2020, 05:09:04 PM
Time to put the freckled bird to sleep. 

I mean.,..Victor Oladipo

Why not Antonio McDyess and Jonathan Bender?  The man has an expiring contract and is coming off of a terrible injury. 

Draft Vassell or Haliburton.  And DO NOT TRADE Knox. 

PS: Dawg, who's next on the Trumpolini Infection Parade?

(https://romanhostels.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/mussolini.jpg)

What's the over/under on Stephen Miller and Williams Barr? 
Title: Re: Scott Perry
Post by: lesterluv on October 06, 2020, 07:02:11 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 06, 2020, 05:09:04 PM

PS: Dawg, who's next on the Trumpolini  Infection parade?



The smart money? Come meet your maker, Rudy G.
Title: Trumpolini
Post by: carlos123 on October 06, 2020, 07:08:19 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on October 06, 2020, 07:02:11 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 06, 2020, 05:09:04 PM

PS: Dawg, who's next on the Trumpolini  Infection parade?



The smart money? Come meet your maker, Rudy G.

Les, please say it ain't so.

I really want Bill Barr and Stephen Miller, in that order.

Clown Rudy can wait.
Title: Miller
Post by: carlos123 on October 06, 2020, 07:41:24 PM
One down.

Please, make it Barr go next!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on October 06, 2020, 08:35:32 PM
Rudy G. did some serious coughing on some news show last night.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 06, 2020, 08:48:26 PM
Wow.  An observant YG.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 06, 2020, 08:57:31 PM
http://youtu.be/0X8hSUfVBpE (http://youtu.be/0X8hSUfVBpE)

Adultery.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Hamilton Samuels on October 07, 2020, 11:12:02 AM
Better than Larry ever was:

https://sports.yahoo.com/wnba-finals-sue-bird-record-assists-lebron-james-ageless-wonders-icons-020356954.html (https://sports.yahoo.com/wnba-finals-sue-bird-record-assists-lebron-james-ageless-wonders-icons-020356954.html)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 07, 2020, 01:20:04 PM
NBA forum ----------->
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 07, 2020, 04:02:00 PM
http://youtu.be/3ozxl_1EwtI (http://youtu.be/3ozxl_1EwtI)

Perimeter D breakdown for some draft entrants.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Hamilton Samuels on October 07, 2020, 05:38:45 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 07, 2020, 01:20:04 PM
NBA forum ----------->

<------------Nearest bar for you.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 07, 2020, 05:48:11 PM
Good game, but Lakes outplayed them 4Q.  Got to loose balls and nabbed O-boards.
KCP made big shots.  AD and LBJ played good D.
LeBJ got to the FT line and drained them.
MIA's bench was 4-18 for 13 points.  Couldn't find on e more guy to get on track and give them a spark.
MIA needed to be more aggressive, more desperate.
Lake defense was tough.
Title: Similar minds
Post by: carlos123 on October 07, 2020, 05:53:25 PM
Quote from: UNO on October 07, 2020, 05:38:45 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 07, 2020, 01:20:04 PM
NBA forum ----------->

<------------Nearest bar for you.

(https://i.avoz.es/sc/mU3IoqHC2YY3_1yi2RfMzXbQePk=/600x/2020/10/06/00121602005023087861571/Foto/trump2.jpg)

This pic is not meant to be our own Chamaco Cartero, but it could be: brain activity not detected.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 07, 2020, 08:49:47 PM
Quote from: UNO on October 07, 2020, 05:38:45 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 07, 2020, 01:20:04 PM
NBA forum ----------->

<------------Nearest bar for you.


Nah - drinking at home tonight


A shot every time Kamala says Harris-Biden ticket.
Title: brain dead
Post by: carlos123 on October 07, 2020, 09:06:45 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 07, 2020, 08:49:47 PM
Quote from: UNO on October 07, 2020, 05:38:45 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 07, 2020, 01:20:04 PM
NBA forum ----------->

<------------Nearest bar for you.


Nah - drinking at home tonight


A shot every time Kamala says Harris-Biden ticket.

Like I said, brain dead.

Just keep praying "for all of DC".
Title: Per the "When Do We Start Again Discussion"
Post by: lesterluv on October 09, 2020, 03:32:50 PM
A pretty good peek inside the bubble, which Silver (and the players) would really, really, really not like to have to do again, especially not for a full season.


https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/30071914/nba-finals-was-nba-moonshot-final-days-bubble (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/30071914/nba-finals-was-nba-moonshot-final-days-bubble)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on October 09, 2020, 11:29:53 PM
This game is unreal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on October 09, 2020, 11:42:39 PM
that was a pretty pretty pretty good game.
Title: Damn RIGHT
Post by: chipstern on October 11, 2020, 09:26:55 AM
(https://ftw.usatoday.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/90/2020/10/GetObject-2020-10-10T093905.738.jpeg?w=1000&h=600&crop=1)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 11, 2020, 10:26:03 AM
Paul's acquisition for Knicks is being treated how talk of adding Butler was.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 11, 2020, 01:47:50 PM
▪ Butler is the second player - since steals were first tracked in 1973-74 - to produce a 30-point triple double with at least five steals in a playoff game. Gary Payton did that in the first round of the 2000 playoffs.




https://sports.yahoo.com/dragic-lakers-fume-officiating-against-210234950.html

Excellent trivia Q in this article

Tyler Herro's 47 playoff three pointers made as a rookie broke the record of 43 held by what player?

Hint - Jersey kid, played in the Ivies
Title: Mr. Google knows
Post by: carlos123 on October 11, 2020, 05:45:46 PM
Chamaco, Mr. Google knows it all.

"Herro also owns the NBA record for 3-pointers by a rookie in the playoffs, with 47 entering Sunday. Matt Maloney had 43 in 1997. The breakdowns of offensive numbers this season outside and then inside the bubble show that on-court performance didn't suffer at Walt Disney World."

Now, go back to praying "for all of DC".

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3ebY8bjpkzolvjSiE8S9cN60GTPdHcyLg9YEVpbB9zzELbZb1CxtMyzLK-8KdHyZOU-dOeQx-WYyG5G9MDvNMi29L2AB7Gkz94dj1yhNbrXb5BU7LbeMrPIl_KwTTsTvL_3JCTymVgtWlildNyI2kcy=w1080-h711-no?authuser=0)

And Chamaco also says Free Portland, Free Louisville, Free Minneapolis, Free Los Angeles, Free New York City, Free San Francisco, Free Mar-A-Lago, Free ...Whatever ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on October 11, 2020, 10:39:42 PM
Congrats to the Lakers and their fans.

I think the NBA deserved a lot of credit for putting on a pretty good tournament under very difficult conditions, which i hope the players and the fans never have to repeat again.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 11, 2020, 11:33:35 PM
100%.

Magnificent job. Silver. NBA. LJ. AD. Lakes. Vogel.




****and Playoff Rondo, too..
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 12, 2020, 03:18:01 AM
Missed it.   I wish the NBA well but I don't think you can put any stock into the 2020 season results.
True home court advantage would've made a difference.  And yeah -- maybe the Lakers would've won anyway, but we will never know. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 12, 2020, 04:34:21 AM
If trump were half as competent or organized or took his job half as seriously as Adam Silver, at least 150,000 of those who died from Covid-19 would still be alive.

Rondo was awesome.

Title: Rondo
Post by: chipstern on October 12, 2020, 07:46:40 AM
We could've drafted Rondo or Lowry back in the day. 

Probably could have made a run at Rondo at something under $45 million the past few years. 

That train has left the station. 

Not to take ANYTHING away from LeBron and Davis, awesome as they were, but Rondo was the wild card, a coach on the floor. 

The BUBBLE response by the NBA was impressive, and as Bo says, we should only have gotten such leadership from The Scumbriola In Chief, vis a vis his COVID non response. 

Hard to see how we move forward with the 2021 season, but Silver's management gives one hope. 

Now let's send Trump packing.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 12, 2020, 01:22:30 PM
Amen on RR, Chip.

Why is Leon Rose prohibited from adding Rondo now or next year?

Rajon is on a player option at 2.6 mil for '20-'21
Title: Rajon Rondo
Post by: chipstern on October 12, 2020, 04:42:42 PM
What would stop Leon Rose from enlisting Rajon Rondo?

Rob Pelinka

Frank Vogel

LeBron James

I have a feeling the Knicks take the best talent available at #8 and the best PG at #27. 

Have a feeling that Dennis Smith is going to get a legit shot at the PG role.  Frank doubling at the 2.

Best case scenario?  Chris Childs & Charlie Ward.

Worst case scenario?  2021 Draft Lottery. 

Wild Card?  Jared Harper.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on October 12, 2020, 05:10:09 PM
F Lebron and F the Lakers.

I'm personally tired of the entitlement, hand-picked teams that dominate the league. If every team gets to round-robin pick players one at a time, fine.  But this superstar buddy shit has to go.

May all the prima donnas rot in the bubble of hell.

Just my $.02
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 12, 2020, 05:14:49 PM
Definitely fuck the Lakers. Let’s build the team that grinds them to dust!

It’s slim pickings on the FA PG front after VanFleet.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on October 12, 2020, 05:29:14 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 12, 2020, 05:14:49 PM
Definitely fuck the Lakers. Let’s build the team that grinds them to dust!

It’s slim pickings on the FA PG front after VanFleet.

No, not necessarily.  Reggie Jackson, while not a starter, would still be a nice pickup.

Frank Mason might be worth a look and Brad Wanamaker is a solid, blue-collar back-up.

And if we trade for CP3 or Conley, there's that.

Personally I'm happy with Ntilikina and the FO choice of backups [draft, trade, FA].

FVV isn't signing here unless Toronto goes into fiscal calamity. But even assuming that, NY is a bad fit.  FVV is successful in that team's chemistry.  We don't have that yet.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on October 12, 2020, 05:36:23 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 12, 2020, 04:34:21 AM
If trump were half as competent or organized or took his job half as seriously as Adam Silver, at least 150,000 of those who died from Covid-19 would still be alive.

-snip-

A dubious assertion.  Its easy to point fingers but there was so much that went wrong simultaneously that anyone in charge would have had a similar result.  Capitalism drives many things that are out of political control.

Yes, I get it - blame the weather on Trump but it gets us nowhere in terms of personal responsibility.  The country still resists masks, distancing, and more.  Sure, Trump is an A-hole but as John Lennon so splendidly informed us - he's not the only one.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 12, 2020, 06:29:01 PM

Rob Pelinka

Frank Vogel

LeBron Jame


You think Lakers give Rondo a raise/more years?  Or that he wants to stay so bad he does so without an extension?

Just curious what your thinking is.  Rajon has bills, like everyone.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 12, 2020, 06:35:06 PM
Re:  draft and the lead guard spot - I have no idea what tape Leon Rose - and even Thibs - could possibly watch to conclude that Smith or Ntlikina could start

Elfrid?  YES

A trade up - or a trade for a vet - or we pick up the Payton option - he's better than the current Reggie.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 12, 2020, 06:53:34 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on October 12, 2020, 05:36:23 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 12, 2020, 04:34:21 AM
If trump were half as competent or organized or took his job half as seriously as Adam Silver, at least 150,000 of those who died from Covid-19 would still be alive.

-snip-

A dubious assertion.  Its easy to point fingers but there was so much that went wrong simultaneously that anyone in charge would have had a similar result.  Capitalism drives many things that are out of political control.

Yes, I get it - blame the weather on Trump but it gets us nowhere in terms of personal responsibility.  The country still resists masks, distancing, and more.  Sure, Trump is an A-hole but as John Lennon so splendidly informed us - he's not the only one.

I don’t think you are giving donald enough credit for how thoroughly he has rendered the republican party supine, submissive, and subordinate to his will. His design to let the disease run rampant and infect his foes was universally picked up by trump adherents, making beating Covid in this country a 60-40 issue where otherwise it would have been 90-10.

Studies show an 8-10 day earlier start to the national response would have led to a drastically better curve. He knew for more than a month before Tom Hanks and the NBA took his option to do nothing away from him.

There still is the most cockeyed and negligible national response possible due to the fundamental uselessness of this administration. Almost a thousand more people are dying every day as tens of thousands more each day are found to be infected.

Without diminishing anyone else’s culpability (there is plenty of culpability to go around), I can easily see that trump has hung at least one hundred and fifty thousand homicides around his own neck.
Title: Sorry, no, there wouldn't have been a similar result with competent leadership.
Post by: lesterluv on October 12, 2020, 07:09:44 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 12, 2020, 06:53:34 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on October 12, 2020, 05:36:23 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 12, 2020, 04:34:21 AM
If trump were half as competent or organized or took his job half as seriously as Adam Silver, at least 150,000 of those who died from Covid-19 would still be alive.

-snip-

A dubious assertion.  Its easy to point fingers but there was so much that went wrong simultaneously that anyone in charge would have had a similar result.  Capitalism drives many things that are out of political control.

Yes, I get it - blame the weather on Trump but it gets us nowhere in terms of personal responsibility.  The country still resists masks, distancing, and more.  Sure, Trump is an A-hole but as John Lennon so splendidly informed us - he's not the only one.

I don’t think you are giving donald enough credit for how thoroughly he has rendered the republican party supine, submissive, and subordinate to his will. His design to let the disease run rampant and infect his foes was universally picked up by trump adherents, making beating Covid in this country a 60-40 issue where otherwise it would have been 90-10.

Studies show an 8-10 day earlier start to the national response would have led to a drastically better curve. He knew for more than a month before Tom Hanks and the NBA took his option to do nothing away from him.

There still is the most cockeyed and negligible national response possible due to the fundamental uselessness of this administration. Almost a thousand more people are dying every day as tens of thousands more each day are found to be infected.

Without diminishing anyone else’s culpability (there is plenty of culpability to go around), I can easily see that trump has hung at least one hundred and fifty thousand homicides around his own neck.

Your estimate is probably significantly low. Original sin: Basically shuttering the monitoring offices Obama had set up inside China for just such an eventuality. Could have changed the path of the pandemic globally.

And FWK is completely wrong, nothing dubious about your compare-and-contrast assertion on Silver v. the Fuck. Not a single transmission in the bubble while parts of the country continues to reject incredibly easy, extremely effective Covid-prevention measures precisely because of the lack of leadership, or rather, leadership that directs people to ingest bleach and alien semen. Case in point, just this afternoon:

The scene in Sanford, Florida ahead of Trump’s first campaign rally since he was hospitalized for Covid-19

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EkKMULUWkAEaR0V?format=jpg&name=medium)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 12, 2020, 07:31:19 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on October 12, 2020, 05:36:23 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 12, 2020, 04:34:21 AM
If trump were half as competent or organized or took his job half as seriously as Adam Silver, at least 150,000 of those who died from Covid-19 would still be alive.

-snip-

A dubious assertion.  Its easy to point fingers but there was so much that went wrong simultaneously that anyone in charge would have had a similar result.  Capitalism drives many things that are out of political control.

Yes, I get it - blame the weather on Trump but it gets us nowhere in terms of personal responsibility.  The country still resists masks, distancing, and more.  Sure, Trump is an A-hole but as John Lennon so splendidly informed us - he's not the only one.

If Trump - instead of "playing it down" in march and april - took american lives more seriously than the stock market he would've been hailed as a competent leader and saved 100,000+ lives in the process.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 12, 2020, 07:55:44 PM
Maybe

Except that last part
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: josh on October 12, 2020, 10:11:23 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on October 12, 2020, 05:36:23 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 12, 2020, 04:34:21 AM
If trump were half as competent or organized or took his job half as seriously as Adam Silver, at least 150,000 of those who died from Covid-19 would still be alive.

-snip-

A dubious assertion.  Its easy to point fingers but there was so much that went wrong simultaneously that anyone in charge would have had a similar result.

The country still resists masks, distancing, and more. 

Had Trump embraced masks the moment the CDC did, the US would have had more than 100,000 fewer deaths.

Had Trump embraced his power to get PPE made, we would have lost fewer medical personnel.

Had Trump left the people on the ground in China that he fired, things would have been different.

Had Trump chosen to use the Pandemic Book left him by his predecessor (who had screwed up and then worked to try to make the next time better), instead of ignoring it because it came from Obama, things would have been different.

Had Trump heeded his own administrations responses to their failed simulations, things would have been different.

So, no, sir, it is not a matter of his being an asshole. It is not a partisan matter, at all, to say that Trump screwed this one up royally. Even his big triumph of shutting down the flights from China, he still permitted 40,000 people to come to the US from China without quarantine.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 12, 2020, 11:07:40 PM
Quote from: josh on October 12, 2020, 10:11:23 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on October 12, 2020, 05:36:23 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 12, 2020, 04:34:21 AM
If trump were half as competent or organized or took his job half as seriously as Adam Silver, at least 150,000 of those who died from Covid-19 would still be alive.

-snip-

A dubious assertion.  Its easy to point fingers but there was so much that went wrong simultaneously that anyone in charge would have had a similar result.

The country still resists masks, distancing, and more. 

Had Trump embraced masks the moment the CDC did, the US would have had more than 100,000 fewer deaths.

Had Trump embraced his power to get PPE made, we would have lost fewer medical personnel.

Had Trump left the people on the ground in China that he fired, things would have been different.

Had Trump chosen to use the Pandemic Book left him by his predecessor (who had screwed up and then worked to try to make the next time better), instead of ignoring it because it came from Obama, things would have been different.

Had Trump heeded his own administrations responses to their failed simulations, things would have been different.

So, no, sir, it is not a matter of his being an asshole. It is not a partisan matter, at all, to say that Trump screwed this one up royally. Even his big triumph of shutting down the flights from China, he still permitted 40,000 people to come to the US from China without quarantine.

Inconvenient TRUTHS. 

Thanks, Josh. 
Title: Meanwhile...
Post by: chipstern on October 12, 2020, 11:11:56 PM
Marc Berman, so grains of salt required. 

Magic interested in Dennis Smith

According to an NBA source, Orlando has shown interest in Dennis Smith Jr., so a bigger deal could work with the Magic if they swap the No. 8 and No. 15 slots. – via Marc Berman @ New York Post
Top Rumors, Draft, Trade, Dennis Smith, New York Knicks, Orlando Magic

According to two league sources, the Knicks are seriously mulling trading back in the Nov. 18 draft unless big man James Wiseman or point guard LaMelo Ball fall back to the eighth spot. – via Marc Berman @ New York Post
Draft, James Wiseman, Trade, LaMelo Ball, New York Knicks

Most NBA draft sources believe it’s improbable Wiseman will make it to No. 8, leaving the Knicks in a quandary. One source senses the Knicks have Ball and Wiseman as two players they absolutely “love,” and haven’t been as smitten yet with any other prospect in a consensus weak draft. – via Marc Berman @ New York Post

COLOR ME DUBIOUS
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 12, 2020, 11:50:41 PM
There is no way the virus response would have been similar if Hillary had been president.   Besides the Trump fiascoes named above, also the first months  of preparation (Jan & Feb) were totally squandered, as the CDC testing was a failure and private companies weren't allowed to perform or process tests.  Then they never switched to the quick antigen tests, which China used almost exclusively, so many test results took up to 10 days (at one point mid-Summer the average was 5.5 days), so that contact tracing and isolation of those infected couldn't occur. 

While the Trump politicization of masks, meant that a mask consensus wasn't reached until Aug 1 (that's when the GOP finally admitted masks helped, as Red states were swamped with cases).

These were a series of catastrophic own goals that any average mildly competent leader wouldn't have made.  These failures irrefutably led to greater transmission of the virus, which equals more sickness, more hospitalization, and more deaths.   And yes, models show that action starting a week or two earlier would have saved up to 100K.  There was never even a coordinated national strategy!

But hell, there was no reason to wait until March 1 even.  I was in Malta when the North Italy and Iran outbreaks hit circa Feb 22 or 23.  That was exactly the time to begin serious preparations.  If it got from China to Italy and Iran, it was coming to the US from both Asia and Europe.  Two and a half months were wasted from Jan 1 notification of a novel coronavirus til March 15 when the Trump Admin started to take some measures.  Unfortunately in the US everything was reactive after the virus spread and outbreaks were rampant.  The time to tackle a viral spread is as early as possible, before the virus is widespread among the public.

There were many different outcomes possible.
China and NZ point to very positive outcomes with early serious precautions.
The US and much of South America plus India are major failures with poor leadership and disorganization.  Trump was among the worst leaders, though Bolsanaro and Lukashenko were decidedly worse.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 12, 2020, 11:58:59 PM
Magic deal

Aminu, maybe?

2 years at about ten per
Title: Who was the worst?
Post by: carlos123 on October 13, 2020, 12:05:51 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 12, 2020, 11:50:41 PM
Trump was among the worst leaders, though Bolsanaro and Lukashenko were decidedly worse.

Well, Bolsonaro was parroting Trump, so who’s the worst, parroter or parrotee?

As for Lukashenko, I don’t know. Was he parroting Putin?

Wait, wait, parroting Putin, hmmmmm... Interesting 🧐
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 13, 2020, 12:30:28 AM
I probably should have said they were on par with Trump in ineptitude and not giving a shit.

Lukashenko btw is still facing huge protests calling for his ouster, and he's hoping Putin has his back if things go ugly.  He needs Putin to either back him up in a military crackdown or give him a safe place to flee with his fortune.  Putin for his part merely wants to cut into Belarus' sovereignty.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 13, 2020, 12:54:13 AM
I can understand Ball, as NYK have needed a starting PG for a long time.
But Wise Man?  We already have Mitch and there are questions about Wiseman's dedication.  Oh, and it's a 3-point shooting league, not a Big Man league these days.

Okongwu sounds like he could play with Mitch.
And Vassal sounds like a solid 3&D wing.
The idea of trading down kind of sickens me, but if they have the proper target ...
But who cares if you take a guy a little lower on most draft boards such as a Shai G-A or a Donovan Mitchell, if you have confidence he's a player.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 13, 2020, 02:36:38 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 12, 2020, 11:58:59 PM
Magic deal

Aminu, maybe?

2 years at about ten per

3 & D defensive specialist, strictly a scrubinie coming off the bench, who is fucking 30 years old and cannot shoot worth a damn. 

Lordy.

WHY? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 13, 2020, 04:35:05 AM
If the magic want to move up from 15 to 8 and they are willing to accept DSJ as a significant part of the return, I have two offers.

Mo Bamba, Melvin Frazier, #15 for DSJ & #8.

Aaron Gordon & #15 for DSJ & #8.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 13, 2020, 05:29:21 AM
Our last three draft picks were all Top 10 and none of them is a good shooter.
Frank #8 and Knox (#9) are both at 36% FG for their young careers.  Frank can't hit 3's, Knox is trying to.   RJB (#3) put up 40% FG and 32% on 3's; 61% FT.

And our other promising young pup Mitch doesn't shoot outside of 6 feet.

So Knix really might want to consider drafting a shooter.
(I miss KZ)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 13, 2020, 11:13:12 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 13, 2020, 12:54:13 AM
I can understand Ball, as NYK have needed a starting PG for a long time.
But Wise Man?  We already have Mitch and there are questions about Wiseman's dedication.  Oh, and it's a 3-point shooting league, not a Big Man league these days.

Okongwu sounds like he could play with Mitch.
And Vassal sounds like a solid 3&D wing.
The idea of trading down kind of sickens me, but if they have the proper target ...
But who cares if you take a guy a little lower on most draft boards such as a Shai G-A or a Donovan Mitchell, if you have confidence he's a player.

I think with Wiseman you have to go back a year and read the plaudits as he came out of high school.

P Hardaway is a joke.  Erase that year.  Though I do believe my eyes on Precious and have him a bit higher than most draft boards (P A benefitted a bit from Wiseman missing time at MEMPHIS)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 13, 2020, 11:16:43 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 13, 2020, 05:29:21 AM
Our last three draft picks were all Top 10 and none of them is a good shooter.
Frank #8 and Knox (#9) are both at 36% FG for their young careers.  Frank can't hit 3's, Knox is trying to.   RJB (#3) put up 40% FG and 32% on 3's; 61% FT.

And our other promising young pup Mitch doesn't shoot outside of 6 feet.

So Knix really might want to consider drafting a shooter.
(I miss KZ)

Shooter?

Nesmith is the guy you would hope, at 15.  Terry is another guy I'd look at there, along with the three I have already touted - Anthony, Carey and P Achiuwa

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 13, 2020, 11:18:23 AM
Robinson will certainly add to his shooting range, though he doesn't need to to impact a game
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on October 13, 2020, 11:26:14 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 12, 2020, 06:53:34 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on October 12, 2020, 05:36:23 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 12, 2020, 04:34:21 AM
If trump were half as competent or organized or took his job half as seriously as Adam Silver, at least 150,000 of those who died from Covid-19 would still be alive.

-snip-

A dubious assertion.  Its easy to point fingers but there was so much that went wrong simultaneously that anyone in charge would have had a similar result.  Capitalism drives many things that are out of political control.

Yes, I get it - blame the weather on Trump but it gets us nowhere in terms of personal responsibility.  The country still resists masks, distancing, and more.  Sure, Trump is an A-hole but as John Lennon so splendidly informed us - he's not the only one.

I don’t think you are giving donald enough credit for how thoroughly he has rendered the republican party supine, submissive, and subordinate to his will. His design to let the disease run rampant and infect his foes was universally picked up by trump adherents, making beating Covid in this country a 60-40 issue where otherwise it would have been 90-10.

Studies show an 8-10 day earlier start to the national response would have led to a drastically better curve. He knew for more than a month before Tom Hanks and the NBA took his option to do nothing away from him.

There still is the most cockeyed and negligible national response possible due to the fundamental uselessness of this administration. Almost a thousand more people are dying every day as tens of thousands more each day are found to be infected.

Without diminishing anyone else’s culpability (there is plenty of culpability to go around), I can easily see that trump has hung at least one hundred and fifty thousand homicides around his own neck.

I disagree.  The brittle nature of our PSP supply chains, the radical disruption of medical expectations about a pandemic, and the ever evolving confusion about what to do can't be underestimated.  The Democrats, too, had their heads up their asses.

There are lots of alternative reality spins that we can imagine today but the unexpected consequences of everything we do play out whether we like it or not.

Biden is awful - worse than Trump and he will be elected.  Harris - worse than Biden.  We are politically circling the toilet.

All we have are the basketball gods to save us.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on October 13, 2020, 11:45:43 AM
We have to pray that nobody gets to Vassell before we do.

Perfect fit.

_______________________

BTW: The "testing" then and now is both producing inconsistent results and is temporal (e.g. requiring isolation or drastically reduced social contact).  And, in the US, testing is a special interest group as well - its a cash cow that keeps marijuana illegal (employers MUST test!, cha-ching).  Free and low-cost 24/7 testing just clogs up profits.  Lots of blame to go around.

Even the effectiveness of masks has legitimate critics.  IMO, they offer marginal protection - feel good vibes in uncertain times. 

Bottom line, you were born with a brain - use it or lose it.

 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 13, 2020, 11:56:13 AM
I'm pretty sold on Vassal.

Otherwise I don't think you have a clue what you are talking about.
It's like you went out and bought a box of wrong opinions.
Willing to discuss in the Politics thread, but not here...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 13, 2020, 12:14:59 PM
3 & D defensive specialist, strictly a scrubinie coming off the bench, who is fucking 30 years old and cannot shoot worth a damn.


Bo's assessment of Aminu

Bo seems to always need to disagree with me.  It's cute.

It was stated ad nauseum by analysts how much Orlando missed Aminu, along with Isaac.

30?

Heh - again - too fucking funny.  Thibs doesnt want a 25 and under team.  I think he would side easily with Al Farouq over Knox.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 13, 2020, 12:17:33 PM
Even the effectiveness of masks has legitimate critics.  IMO, they offer marginal protection - feel good vibes in uncertain times.



yes
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on October 13, 2020, 12:45:07 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 13, 2020, 11:56:13 AM
I'm pretty sold on Vassal.

Otherwise I don't think you have a clue what you are talking about.
It's like you went out and bought a box of wrong opinions.
Willing to discuss in the Politics thread, but not here...

Yes, my opinions are "wrong".  Liberal fascism is in vogue  I'm not.

I disagree on a lot of things about Trump but I am sure of the origin of most of our most pressing problems and they originate with Biden's administrations (Clinton and Obama).  Expecting the doctor who botched your operation to fix it the next time is a bad decision.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on October 13, 2020, 12:47:19 PM
"Liberal fascism".   Is Jonah Goldberg still alive? Another example of the correctness of Warhol's adage...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 13, 2020, 12:50:56 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 13, 2020, 12:14:59 PM
3 & D defensive specialist, strictly a scrubinie coming off the bench, who is fucking 30 years old and cannot shoot worth a damn.


Bo's assessment of Aminu
Bo seems to always need to disagree with me.  It's cute.

Maybe you're getting paranoid. 
Maybe you should be.
But that was Chip's assessment, not mine.

Quote
It was stated ad nauseum by analysts how much Orlando missed Aminu, along with Isaac.
30?
Heh - again - too fucking funny.  Thibs doesnt want a 25 and under team.  I think he would side easily with Al Farouq over Knox.

I thought POR made a mistake by letting both Aminu & MoHark leave.  They were glue guys who put out effort.  Aminu was a good fit there.  Those two were eventually replaced by ex-Knix Melo & Ariza (a combined 69 years old).

Aminu's knee surgery was for a meniscus, so not so serious.
I'd be okay adding Aminu a proven 3&D guy.  Though I don't think he'll age well, he should have 2 or 3 more solid years.  Depends who we draft.  Draft one of Vassal/Okongwu and pick up Aminu and looks like Knox gets squeezed out.
Title: The Epidemiologists or The Ass-Clowns
Post by: lesterluv on October 13, 2020, 01:05:15 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 13, 2020, 12:17:33 PM
Even the effectiveness of masks has legitimate critics.  IMO, they offer marginal protection - feel good vibes in uncertain times.



yes

lol 10,000x. IMO. In your opinion. And the opinion of a guy who has shown himself to be forum ass-clown idiot of the milllenium. And a guy who takes his advice from doctors who worry about alien sperm. Those opinions ain't worth shit.

In the opinion of those who actually know things, masks offer tremendous protection in preventing the spread of the virus to others, hence, diminishing the severity of the outbreak in places where significant chunks of the population use them.  Even MAGA neck gaiters have some value, if covering the pig nostrils.


Herman shares your opinion, tho!

(https://res.cloudinary.com/teepublic/image/private/s--EOkGJypj--/t_Resized%20Artwork/c_fit,g_north_west,h_954,w_954/co_ffffff,e_outline:48/co_ffffff,e_outline:inner_fill:48/co_ffffff,e_outline:48/co_ffffff,e_outline:inner_fill:48/co_bbbbbb,e_outline:3:1000/c_mpad,g_center,h_1260,w_1260/b_rgb:eeeeee/t_watermark_lock/c_limit,f_jpg,h_630,q_90,w_630/v1596133299/production/designs/12654851_0.jpg)
Title: FWK Emerges to Show Us He is close Runner Up in the PIGFUCKSTUPID SWEEPSTAKES
Post by: lesterluv on October 13, 2020, 01:12:40 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on October 13, 2020, 11:26:14 AM

..... there was so much that went wrong simultaneously that anyone in charge would have had a similar result. 
.....
the radical disruption of medical expectations about a pandemic, and the ever evolving confusion about what to do can't be underestimated.  The Democrats, too, had their heads up their asses.

That is so laughable. A pandemic was fully expected. There were dry runs, an infrastructure and complete playbooks put in place by Democrats.

Somebody decided not to use them.
Title: Trout Mask Replica
Post by: bodiddley on October 13, 2020, 01:16:37 PM
Over 100 years ago for the Spanish Flu people knew enough to wear face masks.
It's a respiratory virus, with transmission predominantly airborne via breathing.
Covering your important breather holes makes a huge difference.
Especially when everyone does so.
This is as much in dispute as smoking causing cancer or climate change.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on October 13, 2020, 01:50:07 PM
Nobody is telling you not to wear a mask.

There are individuals who honestly don't think they are sufficient. I'm not one of them.  Just saying that I have read credible arguments both ways.

The quality of the mask is a factor as well.

And if your eyes are exposed, you are that much more susceptible.

Indoors, crowded spaces are particularly troublesome.  Outdoors, not so much.

Sorry to disagree with our panel of medical experts. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 13, 2020, 01:54:21 PM
LES thinks Cain would be alive if he wore a mask.

OK - noted, pal.

Bo - that was CHIP on Aminu?  Didnt sound like him.  Thanks for the correction.  You are still overly disagreeable - but happy to see we agree on one player.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 13, 2020, 01:55:08 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on October 13, 2020, 01:50:07 PM

Sorry to disagree with our panel of medical experts.

As well you should be!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 13, 2020, 01:57:07 PM
This is as much in dispute as smoking causing cancer or climate change.



Nicely said

People who do NOT smoke get cancer

As people who wear masks get COVID.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 13, 2020, 02:02:52 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 13, 2020, 01:54:21 PM
LES thinks Cain would be alive if he wore a mask.

OK - noted, pal.



Honestly, you just continue to embarrass yourself on these issues. I'll explain.

Regardless of what he wore and yes, it would have provided significant protection, much likelier to be alive if he didn't step into an indoor space full of screaming salivators where NOBODY ELSE wore a mask.

Head out of ASS, Kiid, Head out of ASS.

...but no tears from me, happy he's gone!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 13, 2020, 02:33:46 PM
A decent mask protects the wearer somewhat. It’s real benefit is shrinking the radius of exhalation around the wearer, protection for those around the wearer when he or she may be unknowingly infected.

It’s not to protect you as much as it is to contain your poison so you are less of a danger to others.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 13, 2020, 02:39:53 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on October 13, 2020, 02:02:52 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 13, 2020, 01:54:21 PM
LES thinks Cain would be alive if he wore a mask.

OK - noted, pal.



Honestly, you just continue to embarrass yourself on these issues. I'll explain.

Regardless of what he wore and yes, it would have provided significant protection, much likelier to be alive if he didn't step into an indoor space full of screaming salivators where NOBODY ELSE wore a mask.



Herman Cain is a victim of the Chinese government and his own poor luck, geneology.

That you wanted him dead is telling of your own character - and quite sad.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 13, 2020, 03:08:36 PM
No one said masks were 100% effective.
But prophylactic measures aren't either/or.  A combination of precautionary measures will unsurprisingly work best.  Masks, keeping a good distance from others, avoiding crowds, avoiding people without masks, staying home more, washing hands, etc.
Title: kiid is feeling very sad, we so sorry
Post by: lesterluv on October 13, 2020, 03:08:42 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 13, 2020, 02:39:53 PM

Herman Cain is a victim of the Chinese government and his own poor luck, geneology.

That you wanted him dead is telling of your own character - and quite sad.

Yep, born under a bad sign, for sure...but if you're talking governments the U.S.A version as currently led, lol, is the culprit here.

Hey America, drink some bleach and go watch vids of demon sperm doc

(lol, sure FWK that's exactly the same as having a pandemic prep office onsite where it's likely to emerge and a plan to enact when it does)

As for character, I do have my flaws. Saving my sympathy for victims of idiots rather than idiots, guilty as charged, but would still take mine over your toxic mix as would my mom.

3 parts KKK +
7 parts pure imbecile =
kiidcarter "character"


Anything more to add Beavis? Or perhaps it is Butthead's turn....


*** did he really try to blame THE CHINESE GOVERNMENT for ole Herman'S decision to walk into a packed indoor arena full of screaming morons as the Tulsa health department pleaded for the event to be cancelled amid a known surge in the infection rate? Ya give me better laughs each n' every day. Oh the joys tomorrow will bring.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on October 13, 2020, 03:23:31 PM
https://twitter.com/_danilo/status/1304811249499283456?s=20
 (https://twitter.com/_danilo/status/1304811249499283456?s=20)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on October 13, 2020, 03:24:52 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 13, 2020, 03:08:36 PM
No one said masks were 100% effective.
But prophylactic measures aren't either/or.  A combination of precautionary measures will unsurprisingly work best.  Masks, keeping a good distance from others, avoiding crowds, avoiding people without masks, staying home more, washing hands, etc.

Exactly.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 13, 2020, 03:42:47 PM
And what else?     

This hasn't changed in.......how many months?

Does the Biden camp have other answers - or is it just what was posted - and keep/elevate Fauci?
Title: I Challenge Kiid to a Cognitive Test, a Character Test AND a Urine Test
Post by: lesterluv on October 13, 2020, 03:53:47 PM
Complete plan, surprisingly, it includes the Alien DNA supplements recommended by the current prez.
Title: Sadly, Biden will not include DEMON SPERM or Alien Impregnation in his program
Post by: lesterluv on October 13, 2020, 03:58:00 PM

(https://www.the-sun.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2020/07/NINTCHDBPICT000598679142.png?w=620)
https://youtu.be/RhSJPhI3Gw0 (https://youtu.be/RhSJPhI3Gw0)



Nah, me no like me no Gates Foundation or Fauci, they don't have a clue https://www.centerforhealthsecurity.org/event201/ (https://www.centerforhealthsecurity.org/event201/)
rather drink me some DEMON SPERM
Title: Trade Rumor
Post by: Kam on October 13, 2020, 04:47:16 PM
https://www.inquisitr.com/6329332/ben-simmons-rockets-harden-76ers-westbrook-knicks/ (https://www.inquisitr.com/6329332/ben-simmons-rockets-harden-76ers-westbrook-knicks/)

3-way trade with Phila and Houston

Knicks get Russ
Philly gets Harden
Houston gets simmons

Knicks give up Randle SmithJr and Ellington

Weird for Knicks,  but good idea for Philly and Houston.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 13, 2020, 04:55:06 PM
Not so bad

In this scenario we stand at 8 and draft a 4.


6’9.5 left-handed, versatile big man … Good size and length with a 7’0 wingspan … Good strength and build, weighing 263 pounds yet very mobile and well-coordinated … Possesses excellent body control … Versatile skillset … Can score inside and out … Effective offensive game when facing up and in the post with good footwork … Has an effective spin move … Good touch in the paint and uses glass efficiently … Scores in a multitude of ways with floaters and jump hooks … Good combination of power and finesse … Reliable, soft hands … Solid ballhandling ability for his size. Can put it on the floor and drive to the basket … Good jab step … Effective in isolation … Shoots from outside with good form and ball rotation … Averaged 17.4 points per game while shooting 54.3% FG% over the Nike EYBL in 2017 and 17.8 points per game while shooting 55.7% FG% in 2018 … Good court vision and passing ability … Makes accurate cross court passes … Solid athletically … Gets good elevation in the paint and finishes with powerful dunks … Solid shot blocker and versatile tools as a defender … Averaged 1.1 blocks per game over the Nike EYBL in 2017 … Draws fouls at a good rate. Shot 6.4 free throws per game over the Nike EYBL in 2018 … Natural talent with great potential. Can naturally do a little bit of everything, won’t have to completely add new dimensions to his game but can improve upon his weaknesses
Title: Re: Trade Rumor
Post by: facilitatorn on October 13, 2020, 05:29:55 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 13, 2020, 04:47:16 PM
https://www.inquisitr.com/6329332/ben-simmons-rockets-harden-76ers-westbrook-knicks/ (https://www.inquisitr.com/6329332/ben-simmons-rockets-harden-76ers-westbrook-knicks/)

3-way trade with Phila and Houston

Knicks get Russ
Philly gets Harden
Houston gets simmons

Knicks give up Randle SmithJr and Ellington

Weird for Knicks,  but good idea for Philly and Houston.

Let’s not do that. It does not help the cause.
Title: the gods
Post by: carlos123 on October 13, 2020, 09:50:29 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on October 13, 2020, 11:26:14 AM

All we have are the basketball gods to save us.

Don't forget Putin. He may yet "save" us from Biden.
And Bill Barr. He probably will.
(With help from Moscow Mitch)

Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 13, 2020, 12:17:33 PM
Even the effectiveness of masks has legitimate critics.  IMO, they offer marginal protection - feel good vibes in uncertain times.


yes

And Chamaco. You got an important endorsement right there.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3c3Karzg8FBXo4EZqxAzXbkvYpPVb1F804Uxe_9tQ0TdnQ7TeixssjcGpTFLeNXQz-cA2L66IblZo4fUmPtx_G7273XtdIdnrR-6fl2BFClJePRTHj6JeQmTQYJwOrAlQfuym2FBONwaEkrOuR0Mrth=w1024-h669-no?authuser=0)

This effective enough?
Title: Delete eight
Post by: Kam on October 14, 2020, 12:20:29 PM
I can't find any news about the "Delete Eight" mini-bubble that was talked about. 
Seems like that idea has been shelved?  Why couldn't it begin this week right after the Orlando bubble emptied out?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 14, 2020, 12:30:15 PM
Nah, man - let's keep our stars healthy      :)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 14, 2020, 02:50:12 PM
Found this site by accident.  Nice.

https://nbadraft.theringer.com/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 14, 2020, 02:51:34 PM
Terry’s grown to 6-foot-2 barefoot and added 14 pounds to reach 174, and his stock has increased accordingly. Multiple league sources say Terry is receiving interest in the mid-first round. He’s been ranked in my top 10 for months because of his shotmaking ability packaged with a feel for passing and a grit for defense. – via nbadraft.theringer.com



yep
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 14, 2020, 03:08:43 PM
League sources say that VanVleet is indeed among the free agent options under consideration by New York. I don’t know how strong the Knicks’ interest in VanVleet is, but there was one report about New York preparing an offer of more than $20 million per season for the point guard. 1 week ago – via SportsNet New York
Title: Re: Delete eight
Post by: lesterluv on October 15, 2020, 10:15:36 AM
Quote from: Kam on October 14, 2020, 12:20:29 PM
I can't find any news about the "Delete Eight" mini-bubble that was talked about. 
Seems like that idea has been shelved?  Why couldn't it begin this week right after the Orlando bubble emptied out?

The idea got watered down and watered down until it devolved into the voluntary informal group workouts in local markets you've been reading about. Over and done already. Still think it's turns out to be a real disadvantage for the Delete Eight, and expect those teams to come out of the gate much more slowly than those that got together competitively in Orlando.

https://twitter.com/IanBegley/status/1295883488881782784 (https://twitter.com/IanBegley/status/1295883488881782784)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 15, 2020, 10:36:19 AM
I disagree

Time together on the practice/scrimmage court can prove more effective than months of games, especially for a young team with a new coach

All reports out of Thibs-camp have been excellent.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 15, 2020, 10:49:15 AM
Interesting new O'Connor list - has Killian Hayes #1 and Vernon Carey down all the way to 49.

https://nbadraft.theringer.com/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 15, 2020, 10:51:37 AM
Aminu is a reasonable idea to get us a genuine 3&D vet.
Some cheaper alternatives: DeMarre Carroll and Luc M&M.
Both are 34 and I'm not sure how much they have left in the tank.
But either would come cheap on short deals.

As for an additional shooter, Mirotic played last season in Spain.
He's 29, a nice stretch 4, boards well.
Maybe $5M or so gets him if he is willing to come to virusland.
Side benefit: we wouldn't be keeping Portis.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 15, 2020, 11:05:38 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 15, 2020, 10:36:19 AM
I disagree

Time together on the practice/scrimmage court can prove more effective than months of games, especially for a young team with a new coach

All reports out of Thibs-camp have been excellent.

Not by any means saying worthless. But no indication we got solid weeks together by everybody, whoever everybody is. And simply not the same.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 15, 2020, 11:37:24 AM
Isnt Mirotic the player that just got COVID?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 15, 2020, 11:50:33 AM
Draft interviews start Friday

https://www.postingandtoasting.com/2020/10/13/21514104/in-person-interviews-with-draft-prospects-can-start-as-early-as-friday


Still looks like a deal down


Teams directly behind the Knicks in the draft order include Washington (9), Phoenix (10), San Antonio (11), Sacramento (12), New Orleans (13), Boston (14) and Orlando (15). Berman mentions that the Magic have shown interest in Dennis Smith Jr. — could a larger trade be on the horizon?




Tyrese Maxey, eh?  Similar enough I guess to Tyler Terry


https://www.postingandtoasting.com/2020/10/13/21513868/report-knicks-seriously-considering-moving-back-from-no-8-pick-in-upcoming-draft
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 15, 2020, 12:05:27 PM
https://sports.yahoo.com/report-rajon-rondo-opting-lakers-033511001.html


heh

yyyepppp
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 15, 2020, 02:37:20 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 15, 2020, 10:51:37 AM
Aminu is a reasonable idea to get us a genuine 3&D vet.
Some cheaper alternatives: DeMarre Carroll and Luc M&M.
Both are 34 and I'm not sure how much they have left in the tank.
But either would come cheap on short deals.

As for an additional shooter, Mirotic played last season in Spain.
He's 29, a nice stretch 4, boards well.
Maybe $5M or so gets him if he is willing to come to virusland.
Side benefit: we wouldn't be keeping Portis.

Only if the price is right. 

Isn't Bullock a 3&D option? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 15, 2020, 02:43:15 PM
Bullock must be Thibs' type.  I liked him.

Interesting stat I just saw

R J Barrett is in the 90th percentile when looking at team trips to the FT line with him in/out of the game

And Elf Payton is in the bottom 10%, as is Taj Gbson. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 15, 2020, 02:46:45 PM
Yes, Bullock is. We should pick up his option, but teams need more than one.

Drafting we should stand pat and draft Vassell at 8, Tyler Bey at 27, and Killian Tille at 38. All are Thibs type defenders who rip corner threes.
Title: Darryl Morey out in Houston
Post by: Kam on October 15, 2020, 03:02:01 PM
Maybe we should've waited ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 15, 2020, 03:02:30 PM
I am certainly not going to bash new management in their first draft/year

Would be upset a bit only if we passed on Carey at 27.

Oh - yeah - and give me one white guy out of the 3.    :)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 15, 2020, 03:15:13 PM
Thus far Knicks have had ZOOM calls with LaMelo ball and Kira Lewis Jr.  None other reported.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 15, 2020, 07:41:25 PM
O'Connor mock

https://nbadraft.theringer.com/

Haliburton and the other Bey come our way

Fine with me

-exceptweshouldtakeCarey
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 16, 2020, 12:30:53 AM
Bullocks should be able to have a better season.  I'd like him back.  But he's a 3&D wing; the other guys I was talking about are combo F 3&Ders, so not much overlap.
Also we're probably talking 20 mins guys.

So kiid, you've come around on Halliburton?  Didn't you say there was no way he was a Top 8 player earlier? 

I still like Ty H.  A shooter with some playmaking ability so can handle some PG.  Seems to have a good feel on the court.  A bit slight for D.  From the little I saw, he reminded me of Rodney Hood (who for whatever reason hasn't reached his potential).  Another comp would be Sacto's Bogdanovich who we might be considering in FA.

If we could nab Bogguy in FA and draft Vassal, that would really change the character of our team.  Enter the modern NBA era.  We'd still be looking for a PG -- but could draft one with the #27 or try to move up around the #20 pick to get a better selection.  Lotta interesting PG's projected to go from 18 on down.  Easier and less costly to move up near the bottom of the draft. 

That's my plan.
I'd also be fine with throwing lots of money at FVV and adding Okongwu (or Vassal).
FVV and Okongwu would toughen us up immediately.  Another change for the better.  And guys Thibs would like, guys who stick their nose in and make folks uncomfortable.  [then grab best shooter available at #27, Bey or whomeva]
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 16, 2020, 12:39:08 AM
So kiid, you've come around on Halliburton?  Didn't you say there was no way he was a Top 8 player earlier?



Pay attention

I said I trust the new management team
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 16, 2020, 12:42:26 AM
Draft is before FAA, right?  So you cant be thinking, "if we add FVV then we draft so and so."
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 16, 2020, 12:46:18 AM
So simply flip it around.

If we draft Okongwu, and depending if we get a PG we like lower down, go hard after FVV.

If we draft Vassal, both FVV and Bog make sense.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 16, 2020, 12:48:09 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 16, 2020, 12:39:08 AM
So kiid, you've come around on Halliburton?  Didn't you say there was no way he was a Top 8 player earlier?


Pay attention
I said I trust the new management team

Well, there's a Trump-level dodge.
Has the new management said anything on Halliburton?
Your opinion died or something?
Grow a pair ...
Title: Questions
Post by: Kam on October 16, 2020, 12:55:02 AM
I've heard it described as a draft where if you're not picking 1 or 2 then it doesn't much matter where you pick in the top 10 as some talent will slide.

1. Is that a reasonable assertion?

If the above is true some might be tempted to call it a "deep draft" but my 2nd question is:

2. Is the draft class as a whole that good or are we going to be looking back in 7 years saying "wow.... only 1-2 all stars from this draft and only a couple other starters for good teams"

I guess you'd call that a "weak deep draft"

All just a guessing game at this point but i'm concerned that we're making a lot out of a little.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 16, 2020, 09:07:00 AM
Has the new management said anything on Halliburton?


No - not that I have read

And I have never seen him play. 

If they like him at 8, I trust them - then I give you an appraisal - as with Knox - afterwards.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 16, 2020, 09:45:46 AM
“Chris Paul would love to come back to L.A. I know it would be a dream come true for Chris,” an Eastern Conference executive said. “I know LeBron loves and trusts him and he would be a good fit.” – via Eric Pincus @ Bleacher Report
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 16, 2020, 09:50:47 AM
Quote from: Kam on October 16, 2020, 12:55:02 AM
I've heard it described as a draft where if you're not picking 1 or 2 then it doesn't much matter where you pick in the top 10 as some talent will slide.

1. Is that a reasonable assertion?

If the above is true some might be tempted to call it a "deep draft" but my 2nd question is:

2. Is the draft class as a whole that good or are we going to be looking back in 7 years saying "wow.... only 1-2 all stars from this draft and only a couple other starters for good teams"

I guess you'd call that a "weak deep draft"

All just a guessing game at this point but i'm concerned that we're making a lot out of a little.

I am less bullish on Hayes than O'Connor is.  Even O says Hayes is all left hand

4 player draft for me up top

In no order

Wiseman
Avdija
Edwards
Ball

So sure. .  if we can't deal up or get a pantload to deal down, stay at 8, do your diligent research/interviews and welcome the new talent.

There will be some options after that to deal up from 27 I would think, for instance if you wanted a Smith or Achiuwa after taking Haliburton or a Ty Terry after taking Okongwu.

I would guess forward/guard combo with first 2 if Wiseman isn't in there.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 16, 2020, 12:10:35 PM
So......

let's work on this Westbrook deal.

No - they are not getting the #8 overall
No - they are not getting Barrett
No - they are not getting Robinson

Everything else subject to discussion
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 16, 2020, 12:39:10 PM
I'm sure the Rockettes want all of our non-shooters ...

Ty Lue hired by LAC.
Billups hired as assistant.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 16, 2020, 12:42:38 PM
https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/15/politics/sheldon-adelson-funds-trump-super-pac/index.html


My guess is they would want future picks

Randle goes, just about automatically due to $$.

So start with Julius and next year's ......say... top 10 protected....# 1.

Build it.

Or just be a nudge and criticize.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 16, 2020, 12:54:40 PM
You propose a deal, you set parameters that ridiculously take our only good assets off the table, and I'm supposed to complete the trade for you.  You've obviously been living in Trumpland too long ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 16, 2020, 12:56:36 PM
Nah, man - you underrate everyone so much that you cant even get into a proper conversation.

Surely the new HOU prez/GM would be happy building with my starting point

Of course other teams will be making pitches as well - thats how the business works.

Nudge away.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 16, 2020, 03:28:07 PM
Vassell
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2020-nba-draft-workout-video-shows-alarming-change-in-devin-vassells-shooting-form/


Title: Russell
Post by: carlos123 on October 16, 2020, 06:40:49 PM
I'd be happy to include this year's #8 if that's what it takes.
No- Mitchell.
Hard to swallow- Barrett.
No- Future picks.
Ok- anybody else.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 16, 2020, 07:06:35 PM
Not me who wants Westbrook.
Sure watching Rustbrook fly around and do his one man gang routine would be somewhat entertaining.  But Russ and a lot of kids who can't shoot will lose a ton.

I'm sure HOU wants Randle since he complements Harden so well.
I doubt many teams will be looking to add Westbrook.  Moist have PG's and he's a highly paid divisive player who doesn't impact winning.

Knix would do it, because that's what the Knix do.  Add star attractions who help fill seats, assuming there will be actually fans attending games.
Title: Russell 2
Post by: carlos123 on October 16, 2020, 07:23:54 PM
I posted this when he was still in OK and there were trade rumors ...

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3eg77Tv_Cu8BwH2h_eitvvv9NfuR_Vw4MHGj3-kgAxbpVYhFHiDKjppXnW9pehvnNjGYU4cube5rpQ8v46Kbk6kUSQxD4uYHFJuvFwQ1cO22xK94FV83vGV6BvOjGO09SoMjS-G8yt-iAHPKau9OcAW=w620-h413-no?authuser=0)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 16, 2020, 08:19:28 PM
I doubt many teams will be looking to add Westbrook.  Moist have PG's and he's a highly paid divisive player who doesn't impact winning.



Nah.....

Just not he best fit with James.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 16, 2020, 08:28:25 PM
Russ's OKC teams were 226 games over .500 his last ten years (discounting only his rookie campaign)

One year with Rockets - 16 games over

A conference champ

106 playoff games played in his ten playoff seasons (must have won a few of those)

"Not a winner" is absurd talk.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 17, 2020, 02:48:55 AM
OKC put together good teams.
Westbrook was paired with Durant for 8 years, while they had Ibaka and Harden for a number of those years.
Later Durant, Westbrook Steven Adams.

Without Durant they dropped under 50 W's every year.
Paul George joining Westbrook & Adams -- finished an underwhelming 48 & 49 W's.
Swap Chris Paul for Westbrook and OKC had a better winning %.

It's been a well-run, well-coached team for a long time.  Drafting excellently when they had high picks (Durant, Westbrook, Harden in consecutive years) and pretty well with lower picks (Reg Jax #24; Adams #12, Brandon Clarke #21, got #11 Sabonis in the Ibaka trade).
And they've always brought in useful role players. 

The last few years, Westbrook has had trouble working well with Paul George and Harden.  Westbrook turns 32 the week after the election, and his inefficiency and injury risk are only going to increase.  Not a player likely to age well, as he's stubbornly unwilling to alter his game.

I could watch Westbrook zoom around for a couple of years if it only comes at the cost of Randle and Knox or whatever.  But it's not going to be a winning formula, and hopefully wouldn't detract from our yute.  I'd hate to give up 1st rounders for aging Russ.

While Randle is one of the least Rocket players around.  Though they could be new-directioning.  If they have any interest in Julius, i'd be trying to trade him for Covington.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 17, 2020, 03:55:07 AM
http://slate.com/culture/2020/10/nba-bubble-lebron-james-finals-season.html (http://slate.com/culture/2020/10/nba-bubble-lebron-james-finals-season.html)
Title: Next season
Post by: Kam on October 17, 2020, 04:17:42 AM
Assuming there is no miracle vaccine by January 1st...

The NBA needs to go back to the bubble.  Maybe not under the "full season" concept.  But some kind of 6-8 week tournament.

Take a break from March to May, then come back again June 1st for another tournament.

There needs to be something, but it doesn't have to resemble anything we've seen before.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 17, 2020, 11:40:16 AM
CARMELO ANTHONY likely to return to Knicks, with CHRIS PAUL (if Paul is dealt here)

Interesting.

LEON ROSE says Anthony is welcome to come whether or not CP3 is acquired.


- Berman
Title: Re: Russell
Post by: FWK00 on October 17, 2020, 09:07:25 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on October 16, 2020, 06:40:49 PM
I'd be happy to include this year's #8 if that's what it takes.
No- Mitchell.
Hard to swallow- Barrett.
No- Future picks.
Ok- anybody else.

I've been kicking around an idea on UK that is related.

I think trading for RW in relative isolation is not a good idea and all the nightmare scenarios would have a chance of coming to fruition.

However, if Thibs and the FO sat down with a pad that had two columns;  wish list/pragmatic acquisitions, I think RW for lots of reasons winds up on the pragmatic side of the ledger.

Other names might include Minnesota's Beasley, The Clipper's Harrell, Houston's House, and maybe a few others.

 Could some combination of (Randle, Portis, Ellington, Payton, Harkless, Knox, and DSJ) get it done with only minor draft pick exchange, I think there might be interest.

Alan Hahn on Facebook makes a compelling argument for RW - inexpensively, no picks - no youth core disruption (he picks on Frankie but that's his schtick).  If we assume House then no picks/no Frankie or Knox.

A bit of a badboy team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on October 17, 2020, 09:08:17 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 17, 2020, 11:40:16 AM
CARMELO ANTHONY likely to return to Knicks, with CHRIS PAUL (if Paul is dealt here)

Interesting.

LEON ROSE says Anthony is welcome to come whether or not CP3 is acquired.


- Berman

A thousand times...

NO
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 17, 2020, 10:14:14 PM
Ball is likely in Portland's court on this.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 17, 2020, 10:14:56 PM
I get a kick out of writers calling for star acquisition with no pick comp
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 17, 2020, 11:27:32 PM
Why would Old Melo want to play on our Loser Squad?
How does Old Melo help NYK or our Yute?
(he could mentor Knox some).

Makes no sense.
He had a decent run in NY.
But a much better fit on a playoff team that needs bench scoring.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 18, 2020, 06:04:30 AM
Quote from: FWK00 on October 17, 2020, 09:08:17 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 17, 2020, 11:40:16 AM
CARMELO ANTHONY likely to return to Knicks, with CHRIS PAUL (if Paul is dealt here)

Interesting.

LEON ROSE says Anthony is welcome to come whether or not CP3 is acquired.


- Berman

A thousand times...

NO

No X 1,000,000

WHAT THE FUCK
Title: The I-Am-A-Kiid-Type-Ass-Clown-Death-Tour Keeps On Rolling, Encore Performances
Post by: lesterluv on October 18, 2020, 10:00:30 AM
lol, lol, lol, can't stop, won't stop

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-rally-wisconsin-state-reports-record-high-covid-19-cases/
 (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-rally-wisconsin-state-reports-record-high-covid-19-cases/)
https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicholasreimann/2020/10/17/michigan-sets-new-covid-case-record-just-hours-ahead-of-trump-rally/#90a620f4b35 (https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicholasreimann/2020/10/17/michigan-sets-new-covid-case-record-just-hours-ahead-of-trump-rally/#90a620f4b35)1

(https://specials-images.forbesimg.com/imageserve/5f8b499f52fce7fb7dfecd8a/960x0.jpg?cropX1=0&cropX2=4500&cropY1=136&cropY2=2668)


File Under: The Give The Gift That Keeps On Giving, part 1295648947498749478494
Kansas City, Mo., hospitals turn away ambulances due to COVID-19 patient surge
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/521440-kansas-city-hospitals-turn-away-ambulances-due-to-covid-19-patient-surge (https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/521440-kansas-city-hospitals-turn-away-ambulances-due-to-covid-19-patient-surge)
Green Bay on ‘verge of a crisis’ as virus overwhelms hospitals,
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/08/wisconsin-doctor-green-bay-on-the-verge-of-a-crisis.html (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/08/wisconsin-doctor-green-bay-on-the-verge-of-a-crisis.html)
Hospitals ‘bursting at the seams’ with record numbers of COVID-19 patients
https://www.kansascity.com/news/coronavirus/article246478675.html (https://www.kansascity.com/news/coronavirus/article246478675.html)
Wisconsin opens field hospital amid massive coronavirus surge
https://nypost.com/2020/10/15/wisconsin-opens-field-hospital-amid-massive-coronavirus-surge/
 (https://nypost.com/2020/10/15/wisconsin-opens-field-hospital-amid-massive-coronavirus-surge/)
How the Sturgis Motorcycle Rally may have spread coronavirus across the Upper Midwest
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/10/17/sturgis-rally-spread/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/10/17/sturgis-rally-spread/)
Coronavirus Cases Tied to Minnesota Trump Rallies Rise
https://www.thedailybeast.com/coronavirus-cases-tied-to-minnesota-trump-rallies-in-september-rise-to-23 (https://www.thedailybeast.com/coronavirus-cases-tied-to-minnesota-trump-rallies-in-september-rise-to-23)


*** While theoretically possible they may come dumber than Kiid, I ain't met one yet!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 18, 2020, 10:03:39 AM
Quote from: chipstern on October 18, 2020, 06:04:30 AM
Quote from: FWK00 on October 17, 2020, 09:08:17 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 17, 2020, 11:40:16 AM
CARMELO ANTHONY likely to return to Knicks, with CHRIS PAUL (if Paul is dealt here)

Interesting.

LEON ROSE says Anthony is welcome to come whether or not CP3 is acquired.


- Berman

A thousand times...

NO

No X 1,000,000

WHAT THE FUCK
Heh    lol
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 18, 2020, 10:09:22 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 18, 2020, 10:03:39 AM

Heh    lol

*** While theoretically possible they may come dumber than Kiid, I ain't met one yet!
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: FWK00 on October 18, 2020, 12:13:29 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 16, 2020, 12:55:02 AM
I've heard it described as a draft where if you're not picking 1 or 2 then it doesn't much matter where you pick in the top 10 as some talent will slide.

1. Is that a reasonable assertion?

If the above is true some might be tempted to call it a "deep draft" but my 2nd question is:

2. Is the draft class as a whole that good or are we going to be looking back in 7 years saying "wow.... only 1-2 all stars from this draft and only a couple other starters for good teams"

I guess you'd call that a "weak deep draft"

All just a guessing game at this point but i'm concerned that we're making a lot out of a little.

Personally, I don't even see picking 1 or 2 to be that desirable.  This draft is interesting because the wheels on the hype machine have fallen off.  I think the whole manufactured 'lottery' advantage of the draft has deflated entirely.

Sure you still have the Ball hype machine and some agent trolls advocating this guy or another but no mock is as regimented as they once were in lockstep.

This doesn't necessarily presume depth but it does reward talent evaluation.

So we may look back at this draft and find that the last in draft order came first.  However, due to the talent crunch that a folding of the G-League could create - doesn't matter so much where they get picked - where will they stick? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on October 18, 2020, 12:16:24 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 16, 2020, 09:45:46 AM
“Chris Paul would love to come back to L.A. I know it would be a dream come true for Chris,” an Eastern Conference executive said. “I know LeBron loves and trusts him and he would be a good fit.” – via Eric Pincus @ Bleacher Report

*Sigh*!

We all know how much this matters to Chris.  Let's send best wishes cards for this to happen, One can only hope that the benevolent fairy GM Lebron can pull this off.

*Sigh!*
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on October 18, 2020, 12:18:53 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 17, 2020, 11:40:16 AM
CARMELO ANTHONY likely to return to Knicks, with CHRIS PAUL (if Paul is dealt here)

Interesting.

LEON ROSE says Anthony is welcome to come whether or not CP3 is acquired.


- Berman

This makes me want to gag.
Title: Speaking of ENCORE PERFORMANCES ...
Post by: carlos123 on October 18, 2020, 01:20:15 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on October 18, 2020, 10:09:22 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 18, 2020, 10:03:39 AM

Heh    lol

*** While theoretically possible they may come dumber than Kiid, I ain't met one yet!

Well, this guy would have something to say about dumbest ...

(https://static01.nyt.com/images/2020/09/17/nyregion/17ny-eric-trump/17ny-eric-trump-mediumSquareAt3X.jpg)

But yeah, as far as ENCORE PERFORMANCES, Chamaco has a point:

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3elx3iQ_A4QT8_Q28nntZZPtwzrSaFtLPOwz-0y0xpWQil1Vm8KTDYqFWG7EGR22JEU9c3smhgflwVnogcJLNI6kKhTS5fLT-WsFFfUHimaVgkCcdl6uzEQZcAc1giqXBQe7prlQqwA4rFnCCIdIb_f=w323-h548-no?authuser=0)

In any case, Les, you still my doggie
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3eriS-G-YxAx8vfu9T0MbTMJi136qfZ_rfKnCUbvCC2mzS7SMCi1dodSKP67Xb1lizCdjwIFzGGHTw1xyyQ8TZI3j3tDAmeqrBP83GRLLtVkh3NZmVw6SYoGe637Y4PdCXFbbzS_mRykccyRReU0DZN=w657-h660-no?authuser=0)(https://media.tenor.com/images/f45dc3deb54ae86b9276bd0aaa790972/tenor.gif)
Title: Melo
Post by: chipstern on October 18, 2020, 05:21:03 PM
At this point in his career, Melo is a role player. 

On the Knicks he is going to want to play 30+minutes a fucking game. 

How does this advance the evolution of Randle or Wooten at PF....Brazdeikis or Knox at SF. 

Berman is a douche nozzle. 

Melo and Chris Paul. 

If this is Rose's approach heading into next season, I'm a Heat fan. 

Some mocks are projecting Killian Hayes or Isaac Okoro to us at #8.  Some panic regarding a video of Vassell showing a glitch in his shot.  Come on. 

Question is...do Hayes and Halliburton get picked before #8?

We could be looking at Okongwu, Okoro or Vassell. 
Title: Re: Melo
Post by: FWK00 on October 18, 2020, 06:44:29 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 18, 2020, 05:21:03 PM
At this point in his career, Melo is a role player. 

On the Knicks he is going to want to play 30+minutes a fucking game. 

How does this advance the evolution of Randle or Wooten at PF....Brazdeikis or Knox at SF. 

Berman is a douche nozzle. 

Melo and Chris Paul. 

If this is Rose's approach heading into next season, I'm a Heat fan. 

Some mocks are projecting Killian Hayes or Isaac Okoro to us at #8.  Some panic regarding a video of Vassell showing a glitch in his shot.  Come on. 

Question is...do Hayes and Halliburton get picked before #8?

We could be looking at Okongwu, Okoro or Vassell.

I'll be getting fitted for a Heat jersey as well.

Enough is enough with Melo.

He belongs in Portland.

WTF do we do with him?

Chris Paul, looking to pick Dolan's pocket.

GTFO with this stuff.


Vassell was shooting from almost half-court.  Was making the shots.  But somehow he's damaged goods.

Oy
Title: Melo
Post by: Kam on October 18, 2020, 06:49:16 PM
The only valid reason to sign Melo is damage control.  The Knicks reputation took a hit with how Phil handled Melo.  If Leon the professional brings Melo back it will mainly be to restore some of the damage done by how the Knicks handled his departure from the team. 

Think "Ewing Curse" and how the Knicks probably should've asked Ewing back to retire as a Knick.

I'm not saying I want Melo back. I'm saying that this is the only rationale I would accept for bringing him back.
Not to play 30minutes per night.  Remember there probably won't even be a full-season so this is mostly about optics.
Title: CP3 rumor
Post by: Kam on October 18, 2020, 09:07:18 PM
Knox Randle and #8 pick for CP3 - Is a terrible deal.  What the fuck? 

We don't need Leon Rose to make this deal...  this is the kind of deal even Mills had learned to stay away from by the time he got fired.
Title: Re: Melo
Post by: FWK00 on October 19, 2020, 12:11:10 AM
Quote from: Kam on October 18, 2020, 06:49:16 PM
The only valid reason to sign Melo is damage control.  The Knicks reputation took a hit with how Phil handled Melo.  If Leon the professional brings Melo back it will mainly be to restore some of the damage done by how the Knicks handled his departure from the team. 

Think "Ewing Curse" and how the Knicks probably should've asked Ewing back to retire as a Knick.

I'm not saying I want Melo back. I'm saying that this is the only rationale I would accept for bringing him back.
Not to play 30minutes per night.  Remember there probably won't even be a full-season so this is mostly about optics.

I'm hoping the CP3/Melo talk is just posturing by the FO to kind of kiss and makeup without ever really wanting it to happen.

CP3 has already sent valentines to Milwaukee and LA and probably 20 odd other teams about wanting to play *there*.  My gut tells me NY is rock bottom - nothing more than a hold-your-nose and cash the checks kind of no other choice destination.

Same deal with Melo.  He's so polarizing  to begin with that we might see F'n riots if they sign him.  Again, why and wtf for?
Title: Re: CP3 rumor
Post by: FWK00 on October 19, 2020, 12:16:16 AM
Quote from: Kam on October 18, 2020, 09:07:18 PM
Knox Randle and #8 pick for CP3 - Is a terrible deal.  What the fuck? 

We don't need Leon Rose to make this deal...  this is the kind of deal even Mills had learned to stay away from by the time he got fired.

Yeah, CP3 would arrive as the traveling minstral show.  I can't imagine a good outcome.  And larding draft picks onto the deal would just be not to embarrass CP3 as to how truly worthless his overpriced ass is.

To me, sign and trade Amare for CP3, not  picks.
Title: Re: Melo
Post by: Kam on October 19, 2020, 12:18:54 AM
Quote from: FWK00 on October 19, 2020, 12:11:10 AM
Quote from: Kam on October 18, 2020, 06:49:16 PM
The only valid reason to sign Melo is damage control.  The Knicks reputation took a hit with how Phil handled Melo.  If Leon the professional brings Melo back it will mainly be to restore some of the damage done by how the Knicks handled his departure from the team. 

Think "Ewing Curse" and how the Knicks probably should've asked Ewing back to retire as a Knick.

I'm not saying I want Melo back. I'm saying that this is the only rationale I would accept for bringing him back.
Not to play 30minutes per night.  Remember there probably won't even be a full-season so this is mostly about optics.

He's so polarizing  to begin with that we might see F'n riots if they sign him.  Again, why and wtf for?

Damage control and spin to make the Knicks look more player and star friendly.
Best case scenario for both camps is word leaks Knicks wanted Melo and offered him a substantial pay-day but he took less to play for a winner.
Title: Re: Melo
Post by: FWK00 on October 19, 2020, 12:22:13 AM
Quote from: Kam on October 19, 2020, 12:18:54 AM
Quote from: FWK00 on October 19, 2020, 12:11:10 AM
Quote from: Kam on October 18, 2020, 06:49:16 PM
The only valid reason to sign Melo is damage control.  The Knicks reputation took a hit with how Phil handled Melo.  If Leon the professional brings Melo back it will mainly be to restore some of the damage done by how the Knicks handled his departure from the team. 

Think "Ewing Curse" and how the Knicks probably should've asked Ewing back to retire as a Knick.

I'm not saying I want Melo back. I'm saying that this is the only rationale I would accept for bringing him back.
Not to play 30minutes per night.  Remember there probably won't even be a full-season so this is mostly about optics.

He's so polarizing  to begin with that we might see F'n riots if they sign him.  Again, why and wtf for?

Damage control and spin to make the Knicks look more player and star friendly.
Best case scenario for both camps is word leaks Knicks wanted Melo and offered him a substantial pay-day but he took less to play for a winner.

Let us pray.

And, Phil  was right.
Title: Re: Melo
Post by: chipstern on October 19, 2020, 03:30:44 AM
Quote from: FWK00 on October 19, 2020, 12:22:13 AM
Quote from: Kam on October 19, 2020, 12:18:54 AM
Quote from: FWK00 on October 19, 2020, 12:11:10 AM
Quote from: Kam on October 18, 2020, 06:49:16 PM
The only valid reason to sign Melo is damage control.  The Knicks reputation took a hit with how Phil handled Melo.  If Leon the professional brings Melo back it will mainly be to restore some of the damage done by how the Knicks handled his departure from the team. 

Think "Ewing Curse" and how the Knicks probably should've asked Ewing back to retire as a Knick.

I'm not saying I want Melo back. I'm saying that this is the only rationale I would accept for bringing him back.
Not to play 30minutes per night.  Remember there probably won't even be a full-season so this is mostly about optics.

He's so polarizing  to begin with that we might see F'n riots if they sign him.  Again, why and wtf for?

Damage control and spin to make the Knicks look more player and star friendly.
Best case scenario for both camps is word leaks Knicks wanted Melo and offered him a substantial pay-day but he took less to play for a winner.

Let us pray.

And, Phil  was right.

Bullshit. 
Title: Re: Melo
Post by: bodiddley on October 19, 2020, 03:37:30 AM
Quote from: FWK00 on October 19, 2020, 12:22:13 AM
And, Phil  was right.

Phil handled it poorly and unprofessionally.

And that's only after Phil created the problem by giving Melo a gold plated 5 year deal with a no trade clause.  Who the hell was Phil bidding against?  Even with a 4 year deal, Melo would have made the most money signing with the Knix due to larger annual raises.  Phil could have gold plated a 4 year deal.  Would have been the best deal he could have gotten.  A 5 year deal didn't need to be golden, and I wouldn't have even offered it.  Melo was aging.

Btw, we're still paying Noah, another Phil overpay and a player the Knix also treated badly.  Then Phil somehow decided to go the same route with a budding young star in KZ.  A dumb idea, handled poorly, compounded by a worthless trade.

Add in the triangle Offense and forcing his coaches to adhere to that, and Phil was a disaster.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 19, 2020, 07:00:20 AM
WOW

An

Indictible War Crime
Title: Re: Melo
Post by: chipstern on October 19, 2020, 07:02:02 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 19, 2020, 03:37:30 AM
Quote from: FWK00 on October 19, 2020, 12:22:13 AM
And, Phil  was right.

Phil handled it poorly and unprofessionally.

And that's only after Phil created the problem by giving Melo a gold plated 5 year deal with a no trade clause.  Who the hell was Phil bidding against?  Even with a 4 year deal, Melo would have made the most money signing with the Knix due to larger annual raises.  Phil could have gold plated a 4 year deal.  Would have been the best deal he could have gotten.  A 5 year deal didn't need to be golden, and I wouldn't have even offered it.  Melo was aging.

Btw, we're still paying Noah, another Phil overpay and a player the Knix also treated badly.  Then Phil somehow decided to go the same route with a budding young star in KZ.  A dumb idea, handled poorly, compounded by a worthless trade.

Add in the triangle Offense and forcing his coaches to adhere to that, and Phil was a disaster.

WORD
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 19, 2020, 09:06:28 AM
This week there's talk of Knix drafting Killer Hayes or Okoro.
Okoro just 19 and supposed to be a terrific defender.  Reminds some of Iguodala.
He has limited O and can't make 3's, so would make a weird wing pairing with RJB.
What do you do if both your very young wings can't shoot?

Draft Okoro and try to get Fred VV or Bogdan in FA.
Draft Killian and then look for shooters and defenders.
And at least one of Franc/Jr. Smith need to go.

I'd like to have an Okoro type, but the Knicks really need so much more.  Adding another non-shooter would be underwhelming.

Though it's hard to know what individual roster moves to make since the Knix really need a complete overhaul.  Not one player on the team needs to stay or should be untouchable.  Is RJB or Mitch a legit building block or just all we have to work with?

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 19, 2020, 09:57:16 AM
Could it be OKORO, then QUICKLEY at 8 and 27?

PG QUICKLEY was only SEC Player of the Year.  And you guys have mentioned the Ky coaching connection

A couple of you had OKORO high on your list.

https://hoopshype.com/team/new-york-knicks/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 19, 2020, 10:05:19 AM
I disagree that Knicks need an overhaul

We have 3 starters locked in and several options to retain bench talent.

We could fly as is with DSJ and Knox starting, give them a chance to blossom - and potentially win 32-34 games

But I do expect upgrades in FA - and who knows what the #8 or higher will do to affect the overall strength of the team.

Will Frank take the step up in PER that he needs to off the pine? 

Who leads, other than the coaching staff?  Yet to be determined.

OPTIMISM for new regime.
Title: Re: Melo
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 19, 2020, 10:08:40 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 19, 2020, 03:37:30 AM
Quote from: FWK00 on October 19, 2020, 12:22:13 AM
And, Phil  was right.

Phil handled it poorly and unprofessionally.

And that's only after Phil created the problem by giving Melo a gold plated 5 year deal with a no trade clause.  Who the hell was Phil bidding against?  Even with a 4 year deal, Melo would have made the most money signing with the Knix due to larger annual raises.  Phil could have gold plated a 4 year deal.  Would have been the best deal he could have gotten.  A 5 year deal didn't need to be golden, and I wouldn't have even offered it.  Melo was aging.

Btw, we're still paying Noah, another Phil overpay and a player the Knix also treated badly.  Then Phil somehow decided to go the same route with a budding young star in KZ.  A dumb idea, handled poorly, compounded by a worthless trade.

Add in the triangle Offense and forcing his coaches to adhere to that, and Phil was a disaster.

"Who was Phil bidding against for Carmelo?"

If you think NOBODY if he got to free agency you are nuts

And Jackson knows, as some of you apparently forget - Hall of Gamers do not land in your lap every dang day
Title: Setting New AssClown Standards Every Single Day
Post by: lesterluv on October 19, 2020, 11:24:41 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 19, 2020, 10:08:40 AM

"Who was Phil bidding against for Carmelo?"

If you think NOBODY if he got to free agency you are nuts

And Jackson knows, as some of you apparently forget - Hall of Gamers do not land in your lap every dang day

NOBODY...and btw, you have no business calling anybody nuts.

Check this out, ROFL

https://thehill.com/homenews/521638-trump-biden-will-listen-to-the-scientists-if-elected?__twitter_impression=true&__twitter_impression=true&__twitter_impression=true&__twitter_impression=true
 (https://thehill.com/homenews/521638-trump-biden-will-listen-to-the-scientists-if-elected?__twitter_impression=true&__twitter_impression=true&__twitter_impression=true&__twitter_impression=true)

Trump: Biden will 'listen to the scientists' if elected

Honestly, I ain't laughed so hard in weeks.
Title: Re: Melo
Post by: FWK00 on October 19, 2020, 11:35:26 AM
Quote from: chipstern on October 19, 2020, 03:30:44 AM
Quote from: FWK00 on October 19, 2020, 12:22:13 AM
Quote from: Kam on October 19, 2020, 12:18:54 AM
Quote from: FWK00 on October 19, 2020, 12:11:10 AM
Quote from: Kam on October 18, 2020, 06:49:16 PM
The only valid reason to sign Melo is damage control.  The Knicks reputation took a hit with how Phil handled Melo.  If Leon the professional brings Melo back it will mainly be to restore some of the damage done by how the Knicks handled his departure from the team. 

Think "Ewing Curse" and how the Knicks probably should've asked Ewing back to retire as a Knick.

I'm not saying I want Melo back. I'm saying that this is the only rationale I would accept for bringing him back.
Not to play 30minutes per night.  Remember there probably won't even be a full-season so this is mostly about optics.

He's so polarizing  to begin with that we might see F'n riots if they sign him.  Again, why and wtf for?

Damage control and spin to make the Knicks look more player and star friendly.
Best case scenario for both camps is word leaks Knicks wanted Melo and offered him a substantial pay-day but he took less to play for a winner.

Let us pray.

And, Phil  was right.

Bullshit.

Melo.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on October 19, 2020, 11:40:18 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 19, 2020, 10:05:19 AM
I disagree that Knicks need an overhaul

We have 3 starters locked in and several options to retain bench talent.

We could fly as is with DSJ and Knox starting, give them a chance to blossom - and potentially win 32-34 games

But I do expect upgrades in FA - and who knows what the #8 or higher will do to affect the overall strength of the team.

Will Frank take the step up in PER that he needs to off the pine? 

Who leads, other than the coaching staff?  Yet to be determined.

OPTIMISM for new regime.

I feel the same way.  I think the team is already close to being a playoff team but I do think the roster will get a major overhaul.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 19, 2020, 11:45:52 AM
Personally, I don't even see picking 1 or 2 to be that desirable. 


heh      lol
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 19, 2020, 11:48:33 AM
Quote from: FWK00 on October 19, 2020, 11:40:18 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 19, 2020, 10:05:19 AM
I disagree that Knicks need an overhaul

We have 3 starters locked in and several options to retain bench talent.

We could fly as is with DSJ and Knox starting, give them a chance to blossom - and potentially win 32-34 games

But I do expect upgrades in FA - and who knows what the #8 or higher will do to affect the overall strength of the team.

Will Frank take the step up in PER that he needs to off the pine? 

Who leads, other than the coaching staff?  Yet to be determined.

OPTIMISM for new regime.

I feel the same way.  I think the team is already close to being a playoff team but I do think the roster will get a major overhaul.

NBA Radio analyst this week squawked how "if you are New York, you DO NOT WANT TO BE NUMBER 8 IN THE EAST!"

Funny.

Yes.  I take a series with MIL, TOR or NJ - surely.

Progress.

And if we did accomplish this, this would mean that either some of our current youth and/or some additions turned out well - which again would signal optimism for the management team
Title: Just for you
Post by: carlos123 on October 19, 2020, 06:21:06 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 19, 2020, 11:45:52 AM
Personally, I don't even see picking 1 or 2 to be that desirable. 


heh      lol

(https://i.avoz.es/sc/4-UiRIbHSeYre9CqcwEiMuCTqQs=/600x/2020/10/18/00121603041715093489199/Foto/trump.jpg)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3elx3iQ_A4QT8_Q28nntZZPtwzrSaFtLPOwz-0y0xpWQil1Vm8KTDYqFWG7EGR22JEU9c3smhgflwVnogcJLNI6kKhTS5fLT-WsFFfUHimaVgkCcdl6uzEQZcAc1giqXBQe7prlQqwA4rFnCCIdIb_f=w323-h548-no?authuser=0)

Les, you need to say something.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 19, 2020, 08:06:22 PM
I’m good with Quickley at 27 if we go big or wing at 8.

We’ve got a month for Thibs to continue to evaluate the commitment and potential of the players we have on hand.

I’d be comfortable heading out the gate with Mitch, Randle, Wooten and some other big coming out the gate, assuming the other big is pretty good. The same can be said for the guards. We’re not hamstringing Thibs and have room to develop if we keep the ones we have or can retain.

The fact that we have a decent haul of picks, cap money, and flexibility with slots makes any clamor for a big big move more hype than good sense unless the terms are very favorable to us.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 19, 2020, 10:19:32 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 19, 2020, 08:06:22 PM

The fact that we have a decent haul of picks, cap money, and flexibility with slots makes any clamor for a big big move more hype than good sense unless the terms are very favorable to us.

I read a blog the other day that Leon Rose was "desperate to make the knicks relevant" fueling the interest in a trade for CP3 or Westbrook.
I hope the writer was just desperate to meet a deadline and making stuff up.

As you say, there's no hurry.  Be patient and wait for the right use of the picks and cap room. 

In the past the Knicks have shown as much patience as a virgin in a bordello.
Title: Re: Just for you
Post by: lesterluv on October 19, 2020, 10:56:58 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on October 19, 2020, 06:21:06 PM
Les, you need to say something.

lol, OK. I say...I think kiid is probably next!

He Built a Trump Statue and Worshiped It. Then He Collapsed.
Bussa Krishna, a farmer who called President Trump his god, stopped eating after Mr. Trump became infected with the coronavirus, his family said. He died on Sunday.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/14/world/asia/india-trump-fan-dies.html?smid=em-share
 (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/14/world/asia/india-trump-fan-dies.html?smid=em-share)(https://static01.nyt.com/images/2020/10/14/world/14virus-india-trump-1/merlin_169088376_902d94f9-2e15-40f5-8ddd-b74eb1b11c3c-jumbo.jpg?quality=90&auto=webp)
Title: I’ll say
Post by: carlos123 on October 20, 2020, 12:39:43 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on October 19, 2020, 10:56:58 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on October 19, 2020, 06:21:06 PM
Les, you need to say something.

lol, OK. I say...I think kiid is probably next!

He Built a Trump Statue and Worshiped It. Then He Collapsed.
Bussa Krishna, a farmer who called President Trump his god, stopped eating after Mr. Trump became infected with the coronavirus, his family said. He died on Sunday.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/14/world/asia/india-trump-fan-dies.html?smid=em-share
 (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/14/world/asia/india-trump-fan-dies.html?smid=em-share)
(https://static01.nyt.com/images/2020/10/14/world/14virus-india-trump-1/merlin_169088376_902d94f9-2e15-40f5-8ddd-b74eb1b11c3c-jumbo.jpg?quality=90&auto=webp)

Well, I’ll say, Trumptin da god looks nice and trim and ...

HAS BIG HANDS! (I mean sorta, comparatively speakin’, u know, to reality)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on October 20, 2020, 11:21:04 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 19, 2020, 11:45:52 AM
Personally, I don't even see picking 1 or 2 to be that desirable. 


heh      lol

Landing at one or two is desirable but trading into one or two requires some thought.

One and two are expensive buys.

The history of one and twos is schizophrenic.  High reward or historical fails - little in between.

5 -10 more inexpensive, more likely to contribute, lower expectations 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 20, 2020, 04:19:51 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on October 20, 2020, 11:21:04 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 19, 2020, 11:45:52 AM
Personally, I don't even see picking 1 or 2 to be that desirable. 


heh      lol

Landing at one or two is desirable but trading into one or two requires some thought.

One and two are expensive buys.

The history of one and twos is schizophrenic.  High reward or historical fails - little in between.

5 -10 more inexpensive, more likely to contribute, lower expectations

You can fail at any pick.  The downside of an 8 pick failing out of the league is the same downside for a 2 pick. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 20, 2020, 05:20:41 PM
Agreeing with FWK00 and Kam, I’m happy to avoid the top 2. I like Ball, Edwards, Ajdiva, & Okongwu, and Wiseman as immediate difference makers.

Skipping GS and Minny, Charlotte, Chicago, and Cleveland round out the top 5. I don’t have a deal to make for Chicago, but Charlotte and Cleveland seem to have potentially plausible trades to propose.

Charlotte gets #8, #27, right to swap picks with the 2023 Dallas pick, whenever it materializes with their closest lower pick in the same round if they have one, DSJ and any of our team option guys. We get #3 and Rozier.


Cleveland gets the #8, the pick in the 30’s, right to swap picks with the 2023 Dallas pick, whenever it materializes with their closest lower pick in the same round if they have one, and Reggie Bullock. We get #5 and Dante Exum.

Any more than that, I’d be reluctant to trade up from #8.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 20, 2020, 06:40:14 PM
Only problem is Chicago and Charlotte are both trying to deal up, not down.

I guess we can try to deal with the one that fails.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 20, 2020, 08:02:57 PM
That implies that neither is truly in love with who they’re seeing at 3 or 5. That would be great if true.

If neither or one succeeds in trading up, we have a potential deal. Both successfully trading up seems far less likely that both seriously wanting to.

Rose is in a strong position to demonstrate if he’s good or bad in his current role in the coming months. He certainly has enough tools and options.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 20, 2020, 08:27:44 PM
And you and your pals will JUDGE Leon Rose before the opening tip of the season, sadly
Title: Chamaco's prayers
Post by: carlos123 on October 20, 2020, 09:53:05 PM
"- Pray the next 2 weeks for Hunter Biden -"
 Chamaco Cartero

Chamaco, here's our epitaph:

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3f1WRtxvDDx5c9OIUgF8uZgrSCzizs2z6c6VZ6Uf1LR6OH_oNXWpHgPSb4lvX_pVFK5AVuRHtDGO6LxhdgIwVtf70SwZA4OfPgGiEoyqE46HVWZ10yxv8SOc-jzocuqhjr2gp1xrwxh1QxHOjgEIRNv=w300-h275-no?authuser=0)

PS. Fook Leon Rose and Chamaco Cartero, both.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 21, 2020, 03:13:09 AM
I’m withholding judgement on Rose.

When we have an opening day roster I’ll have opinions on the sense of what he’s done based on past performance (so far, highish marks on coaching staff) and when we’ve seen twenty or so games, I’ll be ready to say wether or not it’s workable, working, and why or why not.

Trump’s $15 million withdrawal from his Chinese slush fund, combined with his 60 minutes flame out, is going to have a heavier impact on the race than Emails Part II: Russian Boogaloo.

If it distracts from the violence perpetrated by trump flunkies at DOJ, HHS, USPS, and radical terrorist state legislatures, that’s all the Hunter jiggery-pokery will do to help trump.

There’s a blinding practice from the Byzantine empire that would be entirely appropriate for Louis DeJoy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 21, 2020, 03:27:38 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 20, 2020, 05:20:41 PM
   
Charlotte gets #8, #27, right to swap picks with the 2023 Dallas pick, whenever it materializes with their closest lower pick in the same round if they have one, DSJ and any of our team option guys. We get #3 and Rozier .
 
 
Why on earth would CHA do that?
They drop from #5 to 8 and swap interesting solid Rozier for marginal Jr. Smith.
And all they get is a very late 1st, and a pick swap that is likely to be worthless and a guy we don't want.  Just not hapening.

Besides who are we targeting at #5?  Wiseman?  Avidja?  Okongwu?
Hayes and Halliburton stock has risen last few weeks.

Quote
Cleveland gets the #8, the pick in the 30’s, right to swap picks with the 2023 Dallas pick, whenever it materializes with their closest lower pick in the same round if they have one, and Reggie Bullock. We get #5 and Dante Exum.

Again, don't see the benefit for CLE.  Knix otoh would move up 3 draft slots and would complete a full house of failed lottery PG's (Burke, Muddy, Smith Jr, Franc, Exum)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 21, 2020, 07:51:01 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 21, 2020, 03:27:38 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 20, 2020, 05:20:41 PM
   
Charlotte gets #8, #27, right to swap picks with the 2023 Dallas pick, whenever it materializes with their closest lower pick in the same round if they have one, DSJ and any of our team option guys. We get #3 and Rozier .
 
 
Why on earth would CHA do that?
They drop from #5 to 8 and swap interesting solid Rozier for marginal Jr. Smith.
And all they get is a very late 1st, and a pick swap that is likely to be worthless and a guy we don't want.  Just not hapening.

Besides who are we targeting at #5?  Wiseman?  Avidja?  Okongwu?
Hayes and Halliburton stock has risen last few weeks.

Quote
Cleveland gets the #8, the pick in the 30’s, right to swap picks with the 2023 Dallas pick, whenever it materializes with their closest lower pick in the same round if they have one, and Reggie Bullock. We get #5 and Dante Exum.

Again, don't see the benefit for CLE.  Knix otoh would move up 3 draft slots and would complete a full house of failed lottery PG's (Burke, Muddy, Smith Jr, Franc, Exum)

All good questions.

From the Charlotte side of it they get lesser $ commitment in Smith.  Take Ro off their books.  And they get the extra pick.

We get into top 5 - and in our view there may actually BE a top five - Ball, Edwards, Avdija, Wiseman, Hayes/Haliburton.

And of course get the upgrade to Rozier, my guess being this would have to be somewhat green lighted by Thibs

Another positive is you drop your interest in Paul/Westbrook.  A further residual question is what then to do about FVV (my guess being he would still be a valuable get)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on October 22, 2020, 01:45:39 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 20, 2020, 05:20:41 PM
Agreeing with FWK00 and Kam, I’m happy to avoid the top 2. I like Ball, Edwards, Ajdiva, & Okongwu, and Wiseman as immediate difference makers.

Skipping GS and Minny, Charlotte, Chicago, and Cleveland round out the top 5. I don’t have a deal to make for Chicago, but Charlotte and Cleveland seem to have potentially plausible trades to propose.

Charlotte gets #8, #27, right to swap picks with the 2023 Dallas pick, whenever it materializes with their closest lower pick in the same round if they have one, DSJ and any of our team option guys. We get #3 and Rozier.


Cleveland gets the #8, the pick in the 30’s, right to swap picks with the 2023 Dallas pick, whenever it materializes with their closest lower pick in the same round if they have one, and Reggie Bullock. We get #5 and Dante Exum.

Any more than that, I’d be reluctant to trade up from #8.

I think if we trade for a pick, it will be for a specific player and not a higher spot.

Cleveland has nothing we should want really.

Charlotte needs to get rid of Rozier mostly because he's been outplayed and thus became a very expensive second banana.  Just another PG for the taking.

The problem is they  have other [irredeemably] bad investments they will want to bundle. I have no problem with Rozier per se but I don't see why we would do it.

I'm hoping that Bullock and Gibson survive whatever wheeling and dealing go down.  The best of that veteran bunch, IMO.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 22, 2020, 02:00:14 AM
It's kind of ridiculous how far away the draft is.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 22, 2020, 04:25:24 AM
Quote from: FWK00 on October 22, 2020, 01:45:39 AM
I'm hoping that Bullock and Gibson survive whatever wheeling and dealing go down.  The best of that veteran bunch, IMO.

Taj is probably staying as he's a respected vet and a Thibs guy who can help with the lockerroom.  Makes sense to not pick up his option and then resign him for less.

Bullock a good vet with some 3&D potential.
Mo Hark could be back as well.  I think he can expand his offense if permitted.
Solid role player.

I expect a decision will be made on ELF after we see if the draft or FA brings in a starting level PG.  Elf is a quality backup PG, but we also have Franc and Jr. Smith for that role, until one is moved.  So for now, unclear if/where Elf fits.  He's somewhat Rondoesque.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 22, 2020, 06:01:17 AM
http://youtu.be/PFIprOQyZP0 (http://youtu.be/PFIprOQyZP0)

This is recent workout video of Haliburton. I’m sharing it because I’ve seen from his college footage and read a bunch about his concerning shot form and how that made him a midrange non-factor along with helping his defender close out on outside looks. Apparently he noticed it as well. In this video his release point is significantly higher from all over the court. It’s not the Devin Vassell catapult by any means, nor even the FSU stroke that was so magical. It’s still out in front, but in a normal range requiring a lot less space. Some guys shoot out front because it lets them have a shot pass and fake that all start with the same motion so the choice can be delayed, giving another moment for things to develop and force a smidgen more guesswork from the defenders.

There were three knocks on Haliburton after his play stopped, four if you count injury history. Shooting form, handle, and man defense mainly to do with stance. He’s done good things to his shot. The other two have to wait until competition occurs.

I believe a player can work on his handle, his stance, along with strength and fitness as they progress as a pro.

I’m moving Haliburton into that top group. He’s the least physically talented of the 3 pgs in the group, but he’s the most mentally complete of the 3.


Okongwu Wiseman
Deni
Vassell Edwards
Ball Hayes Haliburton

It’s an eight player draft. None of these guys would break my heart. Getting a crack at one, I wouldn’t give up much on top of that for a crack at another. We’d do very well to add any one of these, though each takes us in a different direction. It would take a fuck ton to get me to trade down.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 22, 2020, 09:23:08 AM
Have to assume that Ball and Edwards go in the Top 5, likely Top 3.  And I don't see the benefit of Wiseman, since Mitch is one of our few yute assets and it's no longer a Big Man league. 

The only Bigs really impacting their teams:
Jurkic who is a terrific passer and shooter, which is basically a Stretch 5 or Point-C formula which Wiseman doesn't profile into. 
Embiid who is pretty unique. 
Gobert who is a force on D.
Then maybe Brook Lopez who has a pretty unique role as a 3-point shooter and drop-back rim protector.

Besides there's a definite C glut, so it's not hard to add in a quality backup C on the cheap to work woth and backup Mitch (Myers Leopard; Dieng; Len; Kanter; Noel; Biyombo; Luke Kornet; Baynes, Javale; Taj; O'Quinn the o'mighty eskimo, etc)

Okongwu, Vassell, Deni, Halliburton, Hayes?
That's good pickings.
I don't know Hayes at all.
But that's my order for the other 4.  Though maybe Ty H 3rd and Avidja 4th. Prioritizing shooting.

Agree we get a good player.
Move up for Ball or Edwards or Okongwu if you project any of them as all-stars.
Though getting into the Top 3 will cost.  A Top 5 for Okongwu/Hayes might not take much if another team wants vassal or Halliburton anyway.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 22, 2020, 09:51:54 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 22, 2020, 09:23:08 AM
Have to assume that Ball and Edwards go in the Top 5, likely Top 3.  And I don't see the benefit of Wiseman, since Mitch is one of our few yute assets and it's no longer a Big Man league. 

The only Bigs really impacting their teams:
Jurkic who is a terrific passer and shooter, which is basically a Stretch 5 or Point-C formula which Wiseman doesn't profile into. 
Embiid who is pretty unique. 
Gobert who is a force on D.
Then maybe Brook Lopez who has a pretty unique role as a 3-point shooter and drop-back rim protector.




I'd have to say that no longer a Big Man league stuff is pretty much cliche. No longer a mediocre big man league perhaps, but then, never was.

Rockets scheme exposed as trash. A big not mentioned above impacting his team a wee bit, currently sporting a 2019-2020 championship ring.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 22, 2020, 10:22:38 AM
Charlotte "needing" to get rid of Rozier is a bit ridiculous.

Solid player.

Just popping Rozier off the roster does them no good.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 22, 2020, 10:26:13 AM

.423/.407/.874 shooting for Rozier


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 22, 2020, 10:29:48 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on October 22, 2020, 09:51:54 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 22, 2020, 09:23:08 AM
Have to assume that Ball and Edwards go in the Top 5, likely Top 3.  And I don't see the benefit of Wiseman, since Mitch is one of our few yute assets and it's no longer a Big Man league. 

The only Bigs really impacting their teams:
Jurkic who is a terrific passer and shooter, which is basically a Stretch 5 or Point-C formula which Wiseman doesn't profile into. 
Embiid who is pretty unique. 
Gobert who is a force on D.
Then maybe Brook Lopez who has a pretty unique role as a 3-point shooter and drop-back rim protector.




I'd have to say that no longer a Big Man league stuff is pretty much cliche. No longer a mediocre big man league perhaps, but then, never was.

Rockets scheme exposed as trash. A big not mentioned above impacting his team a wee bit, currently sporting a 2019-2020 championship ring.

There are a dozen others that should be added to his EFFECTIVE BIG MEN list

And a dozen more after that as important contributors
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 22, 2020, 10:35:45 AM
Quote from: Kam on October 22, 2020, 02:00:14 AM
It's kind of ridiculous how far away the draft is.

More pressing matters for the nation first

But I appreciate all the draft talk, folks

Take a look at Tyler Terry and R J Hampton with an open mind.

And of course pay attention on any new of who we have interviewed.
Title: Cliche or Axiomatic?
Post by: bodiddley on October 22, 2020, 10:40:23 AM
No Longer a Big Man league isn't the same as the Danamantbee extreme of No Big Man at all all game.  But teams do go extended stretches playing small without a true C.  And with teams running PnR's overandover or courting 5 man shooting lineups it can be difficult for a traditional C to defend.  While Big Men posting has become rare.

As for me, I'd rather have Harden and Capela than Harden and Westbrook.
Capela defends and gets you some easy buckets.  Makes Harden's job easier.
And late game, interior D and easy buckets are at a premium.

I look at a talented young Big like Ayton, who would be a monster 15 years ago but is adapting himself and learning to play in this new era.  And WiseMan is said to be a level below Ayton.  A quality player, but cna he be the 2nd bets player on a contender?  I'll be interested to see if any team can win big with a C as their best or 2nd best player.

One of the wonders of Mitch is that he can both guard on the perimeter and defend the rim.  I've never seen a guy block so many 3's.  But he also fouls the 3-point shooter more than he should.  Most of the blocks on close-outs; fouls getting faked off his feet when guarding outside.  So should be fixable.  And Mitch is terrific on rim-running, lobs and putbacks.  So if Mitch can develop and progress he could be a gem.  Basically Mitch has that Capela game with more length and mobiliy.

Lotta talk that GSW wants to get Dwight.  A vet who is high energy, willing to play short minutes, will defend.  But I expect they are thinking of around 15-20 mins a night.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 22, 2020, 10:55:55 AM
Should be interesting to watch D'Antoni's new team and if he can get back to the summit.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 22, 2020, 11:07:12 AM
OK.  I'm in.  Bring back The Rooster!

https://hoopshype.com/2020/10/21/danilo-gallinari-nba-free-agency-knicks-mike-dantoni-chris-paul-billy-donovan/
Title: Re: Cliche or Axiomatic?
Post by: lesterluv on October 22, 2020, 11:30:53 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 22, 2020, 10:40:23 AM
I'll be interested to see if any team can win big with a C as their best or 2nd best player.


Lol...ask the Nuggets or Lakers, who everybody in the West will be trying to figure out how to match up against or get by. Yeah, if you want the music to stop early, go small, the big man is dead for sure.
Title: Bigs
Post by: chipstern on October 22, 2020, 12:44:14 PM
Size STILL MATTERS. 

I was always baffled by the Rockets dumping Capela, who was a skilled agile big. 

And while I don't share BoD's snarky disdain for Westbrook, the weaponization of the Small Ball Epoch is a load of crap. 

Obviously, the modern era of the Stretch 4 & 5 is significant. 

Nikola.  AD.  Jurkic.  Vukavic.  Porzingis. 

But the Lakers had SIGNIFICANT SIZE UP FRONT. 

Davis, Kuzma, McGee, Howard.  I mean, come on, Stretchers and Beasts, both played a signficant part. 

I mean, the notion that the Sixers should dump Embid is LUDICROUS.  They could surely use some better shooters around him and Ben. 

It will be interesting to see how Mitchell evolves.  He does so many things well, but my God, that roll to the hoop game would be far more effective if he had a 12-15 foot jumper. 

In terms of BIGS, the future would seem to be towards more mid-sized bigs in the Bill Russell-Willis Reed-Wes Unself trad who were in the 6'7", 6'8", 6'9" country.   

Capela...and of course, BAM, the seminal prototype moving forward.  Closest thing we presently have to BAM is Kenny Wooten, who has shown be can be a defensive force, but has much to prove on the offensive end.   

And I think Bo dressing down Ayton is BS.  He has come a long way in two seasons, and Phoenix under Monty Williams had one hell of an impressive run in the bubble.  Whereas Bagley's evolution has been kind of stilted. 

Agree that backup centers can be plentiful and had on the cheap.  I'd be kind of interested in Biyombo at bargain basement prices. 

But the idea that the likes of Wilt, Kareem, Thurmond, Lanier are somehow obsolete is some flavor of the month dookie. AS is the notion that a down low post game is passe.  All hail the trey, but BALANCE still works.  Look at the Lakers.  Of course, LeBron and AD.  But Dwight gave them BIG IMPORTANT MINUTES. 

Though in all candor, the modern bigs most teams would cherish are in the Spencer Haywood, Elvin Hayes, Jerry Lucas, Tim Duncan, Bob McAdoo, Dave Cowens, Kevin McHale, Kevin Garnett, Kevin Durant, Rasheed Wallace, Kurt Thomas, Amare Stoudamire Hybrid Mode.   
Title: Re: Bigs
Post by: chipstern on October 22, 2020, 12:49:03 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 22, 2020, 12:44:14 PM
Size STILL MATTERS. 

I was always baffled by the Rockets dumping Capela, who was a skilled agile big. 

And while I don't share BoD's snarky disdain for Westbrook, the weaponization of the Small Ball Epoch is a load of crap. 

Obviously, the modern era of the Stretch 4 & 5 is significant. 

Nikola.  AD.  Jurkic.  Vukavic.  Porzingis. 

But the Lakers had SIGNIFICANT SIZE UP FRONT. 

Davis, Kuzma, McGee, Howard.  I mean, come on, Stretchers and Beasts, both played a signficant part. 

I mean, the notion that the Sixers should dump Embid is LUDICROUS.  They could surely use some better shooters around him and Ben. 

It will be interesting to see how Mitchell evolves.  He does so many things well, but my God, that roll to the hoop game would be far more effective if he had a 12-15 foot jumper. 

In terms of BIGS, the future would seem to be towards more mid-sized bigs in the Bill Russell-Willis Reed-Wes Unself trad who were in the 6'7", 6'8", 6'9" country.   

Capela...and of course, BAM, the seminal prototype moving forward.  Closest thing we presently have to BAM is Kenny Wooten, who has shown be can be a defensive force, but has much to prove on the offensive end.   

And I think Bo dressing down Ayton is BS.  He has come a long way in two seasons, and Phoenix under Monty Williams had one hell of an impressive run in the bubble.  Whereas Bagley's evolution has been kind of stilted. 

Agree that backup centers can be plentiful and had on the cheap.  I'd be kind of interested in Biyombo at bargain basement prices. 

But the idea that the likes of Wilt, Kareem, Thurmond, Lanier are somehow obsolete is some flavor of the month dookie. AS is the notion that a down low post game is passe.  All hail the trey, but BALANCE still works.  Look at the Lakers.  Of course, LeBron and AD.  But Dwight gave them BIG IMPORTANT MINUTES. 

Though in all candor, the modern bigs most teams would cherish are in the Spencer Haywood, Elvin Hayes, Jerry Lucas, Tim Duncan, Bob McAdoo, Dave Cowens, Kevin McHale, Kevin Garnett, Kevin Durant, Rasheed Wallace, Kurt Thomas, Amare Stoudamire Hybrid Mode.

Would be a mitzvah if'n we could add Julius Randle to that list.  A real challenge to Thibs and Payne and Bryant and Woodson.  Sure I am in the minority here, but he was just getting into a really good rhythm when the season came to a screeching halt. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 22, 2020, 12:58:52 PM
It will be interesting to see how Mitchell evolves.  He does so many things well, but my God, that roll to the hoop game would be far more effective if he had a 12-15 foot jumper.


I dont disagree, but when would you design a play for a Mitch jumper?

Back to basket skillsaet much more important.  Gets you to the line.  And gets much desired layups and dunks
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 22, 2020, 01:01:35 PM
Capela...and of course, BAM, the seminal prototype moving forward.  Closest thing we presently have to BAM is Kenny Wooten, who has shown be can be a defensive force, but has much to prove on the offensive end.   



Braz actually has that type game - though with about half the strength.

Will be interesting to see how Thibs assesses Iggy.
Title: Re: Bigs
Post by: lesterluv on October 22, 2020, 01:11:11 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 22, 2020, 12:44:14 PM

And I think Bo dressing down Ayton is BS.  He has come a long way in two seasons, and Phoenix under Monty Williams had one hell of an impressive run in the bubble.  Whereas Bagley's evolution has been kind of stilted. 



They were the breakout team of the pre-playoff bubble — so fun to watch — and they sure as hell didn't do it by going small. When Ayton stepped out, Kaminsky came in, who, when I last checked, was still 7'1" tall.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 22, 2020, 01:38:03 PM
Bagley will be fine as well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 22, 2020, 05:40:45 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 22, 2020, 04:25:24 AM
Quote from: FWK00 on October 22, 2020, 01:45:39 AM
I'm hoping that Bullock and Gibson survive whatever wheeling and dealing go down.  The best of that veteran bunch, IMO.

Taj is probably staying as he's a respected vet and a Thibs guy who can help with the lockerroom.  Makes sense to not pick up his option and then resign him for less.


Sounds good on paper but in reality its a risk.  He could leave for elsewhere or he could demand more years in exchange for taking less.  I don't think this option is even entertained unless he is making room for a superstar/friend.

Does this maneuver ever happen just because management decides it wants to save money? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 22, 2020, 08:47:14 PM
Didnt Rondo have a team option that wasnt picked up before he signed for 2 years?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 22, 2020, 08:59:45 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 22, 2020, 08:47:14 PM
Didnt Rondo have a team option that wasnt picked up before he signed for 2 years?

Rondo has a player option. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 22, 2020, 09:02:38 PM
Yes.  Second year of current pact after he finished the other, where I think he made 9 mil, not 2.5
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 22, 2020, 09:05:51 PM
2.6 option for 20-21. 

Avery Bradley and Pope also have player options. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 22, 2020, 09:34:49 PM
Rondo signed a two year deal for 2.5 mil per year precisely to play with a superstar on a contending team.
Maybe Taj Gibson will do the same thing next year.

Unless we pick up his option.
Title: Rondo's previous contract had no option
Post by: Kam on October 22, 2020, 11:19:00 PM
Report: Rajon Rondo, Lakers Agree to 1-Year Contract After LeBron James Deal. Rajon Rondo is on the move once again, as he came to terms Monday a one-year, $9 million contract with the Los Angeles Lakers, per Yahoo Sports' Shams Charania.

https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1013895897820917763?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1013895897820917763%7Ctwgr%5Eshare_3%2Ccontainerclick_0&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thebirdwrites.com%2F2018%2F7%2F2%2F17528650%2F2018-nba-free-agency-pelicans-options-rajon-rondo-lakers-tyreke-evans-shabazz-harris-felton-jack (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1013895897820917763?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1013895897820917763%7Ctwgr%5Eshare_3%2Ccontainerclick_0&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thebirdwrites.com%2F2018%2F7%2F2%2F17528650%2F2018-nba-free-agency-pelicans-options-rajon-rondo-lakers-tyreke-evans-shabazz-harris-felton-jack)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 22, 2020, 11:58:36 PM
Thanks, Kam.

So yeah, they cut his pay pretty good - but he stayed.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 23, 2020, 02:42:36 AM
Terry and Hampton are considerations if one falls to 27 or if there is a way to consolidate the later two picks to move up. Neither interest me at 8. Kira a little ahead of both maybe. Quickley not too far behind.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 23, 2020, 03:33:36 AM
From HoopsHype:
Quote
Taj Gibson: Only $1,000,000 guaranteed in 2020/21, Contract becomes fully guaranteed if not waived by October 17, 2020.
Wayne Ellington: Only $1,000,000 guaranteed in 2020/21,  Contract becomes fully guaranteed if not waived by October 17, 2020.
Elfrid Payton: Only $1,000,000 guaranteed in 2020/21,  contract becomes guaranteed if not waived by October 17, 2020.
Reggie Bullock: Only $1,000,000 guaranteed in 2020/21, contract becomes fully guaranteed if not waived by October 17, 2020.

Uh, have such dates been pushed back?
These dates would have been in individual contracts, unless there is some contingency clauses in there as well.

Otherwise, Taj probably isn't worth $9.5M to mentor Mitch and Randle.  Waive him and he gets $1M then resign him at $4M.  If he wants to play for a playoff team at that money or less, maybe it's best to wish him well.
But he's likely to get 15-20 mins a night as a Knick.  And be a lockerroom presence under Thibs, and live in NYC.

Again, I think we could replace Taj with another C pretty easily. 
Myers Leonard, Alex Len, etc.  Those guys significantly younger and probably dropping into the $5-$8M range.
If Taj returns, he could be useful.  If he leaves, he's replaceable.

Ellington isn't worth his $8M option.
Elf for $8M is reasonable value.  Might even be worth keeping as a trade chip or so we could trade Franc/Jr. Smith and still be stocked up at PG (even if we did bring in FVV or Ball or whoeva).

I'm interested in what we do with Mo Hark.  I recall him locking Melo up in his rook year and thought he'd have a better career.  Seemed like a competitive type with some nice tools, but has become more of a screener role player.  I'd be interested to see MoHawk be more aggressive on both ends.  Grow from within.
See if we could lock him up with a 3/$22M deal.

No way do I want Portis back at $15M.  Don't care for where his head is at.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 23, 2020, 04:08:08 AM
Quote
Julius Randle: Only $4,000,000 guaranteed in 2021/22, contract becomes guaranteed if not waived by June 28, 2021.

Julius Randle: He can make $900,000 for making an All-Defensive Team, earning an All-Star selection or making the playoffs having played in at least 65 games.

Interesting.  One more year of Orangeandblue Julius at $19M and then we can decide if we want ti keep him for $20M or dispose of for $4M.  That could also make for an interesting trade chip for a team that wants to save a lot of money, by slotting Randle in at $20M and then dropping $16M.  Without ticket sales, some teams might be hurting financially and looking to avoid taxes or just high salary.

Otherwise, Randle not likely to earn that extra $1M bonus.
Hell, I'll pay Randle $900K if he makes the all-Defensive team!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 23, 2020, 12:48:31 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 23, 2020, 03:33:36 AM
From HoopsHype:
Quote
Taj Gibson: Only $1,000,000 guaranteed in 2020/21, Contract becomes fully guaranteed if not waived by October 17, 2020.
Wayne Ellington: Only $1,000,000 guaranteed in 2020/21,  Contract becomes fully guaranteed if not waived by October 17, 2020.
Elfrid Payton: Only $1,000,000 guaranteed in 2020/21,  contract becomes guaranteed if not waived by October 17, 2020.
Reggie Bullock: Only $1,000,000 guaranteed in 2020/21, contract becomes fully guaranteed if not waived by October 17, 2020.

Uh, have such dates been pushed back?
These dates would have been in individual contracts, unless there is some contingency clauses in there as well.

Otherwise, Taj probably isn't worth $9.5M to mentor Mitch and Randle.  Waive him and he gets $1M then resign him at $4M.  If he wants to play for a playoff team at that money or less, maybe it's best to wish him well.
But he's likely to get 15-20 mins a night as a Knick.  And be a lockerroom presence under Thibs, and live in NYC.


Living in NYC during the pandemic isn't much of a draw.  People left NYC in droves this year for the burbs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 23, 2020, 05:54:53 PM
Living in the USofA during the pandemic isn't much of a draw.
Maybe they should play out the next NBA season in virus-free China.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 23, 2020, 06:11:20 PM
NBA scout on what DET should do in the #7 slot above us:
https://sports.yahoo.com/detroit-pistons-pick-killian-hayes-130109905.html
He thinks Killer Hayes makes the most sense for them.  Or Okoro.
Dropping TyHal down to us. 

Be great if they went Okoro giving us a choice of Hayes or Ty, but I think that's unlikely.  DET is basically in the same boat as NYK.  They have a flawed but productive PF (Blake-Randle).  A C they can more or less rely on (Drummond-Mitch).  And a young wing they're trying to develop (Kennard-RJB).    We both need a PG and defense and shooting.

Anyway, this scout says that Hayes was kind of lost on his previous French team with too many similar players, but developed a lot as lead G in Germany.

Othersowise:
Quote
My first tier is actually six guys, and it’s all pretty close. It’s just that all of them are a little bit different. But I think the market values are pretty close, it just sort of depends on which teams you’re looking at for each guy. The first grouping, and not necessarily in this order, would be Anthony Edwards, James Wiseman, LaMelo Ball, Obi Toppin, Deni Avdija and Onyeka Okongwu.

This on PG's is interesting:
Quote
Point guard is definitely one of them that they could look to address. With Killian, Kira Lewis, Haliburton and RJHampton1, I actually don’t think there’s that big a difference.

He's big on Kira:
Quote
That first grouping of point guards, I think there’s five or so that are in that group, they’re all so different. It’s a preference-type thing. Kira Lewis, he’s got elite speed and he shoots the ball well. That combination should translate to the NBA pretty well. One guy that he reminds me of a little bit is Darren Collison. I don’t know if the kid’s going to be a superstar, but just with his speed and shooting ability I think he fits the NBA game pretty well right now. I think he’s at least going to be a good player, if not a really good one.

His sleepers:
Quote
Isaiah Stewart from Washington, I think he’s one guy. The kid is just such a brute, 6-9, 250, just tough kid, great kid, a kid with high character. A couple other guys — Malachi Flynn from San Diego State at point guard, Elijah Hughes from Syracuse and Jalen Harris from Nevada.

Keeps sounding like from 20-27 there will be some solid PG prospects.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 23, 2020, 06:23:53 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 23, 2020, 05:54:53 PM
Living in the USofA during the pandemic isn't much of a draw.
Maybe they should play out the next NBA season in virus-free China.

Canada is a good option for a North American league.

My point was addressing yours about it being better to live in NYC.  All i'm saying is.... not this year.  The advantages of NYC are blunted.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 23, 2020, 06:45:51 PM
Unclear what kind of season can be expected.

Does it make sense to have teams travel all over the country and open big stadiums -- which takes significant staffing -- if there won't be fans? 
Will there be fans but with capacity limits?
A lot of states probably won't permit fans in stadiums.

Do you run a few bubble sites?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 23, 2020, 07:08:42 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 23, 2020, 06:45:51 PM


Do you run a few bubble sites?

I vote for this option.   Make divisions and division rivalries meaningful again.  Win or come in second in your division/bubble to go to the playoff bubble.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 24, 2020, 02:19:08 AM
I was thinking along the same lines.
But 4 bubble sites with 7 or 8 teams each makes more sense than smaller divisional bubbles.  Then you'd play a lot more games against teams in your bubble.  And then maybe randomly reassign the teams to the 4 bubble sites at the mid-point of the season.

Well, it looks like the NBA is considering a 73 game season.
And starting before XMas.
If you're not going to be able to put fannies in the seats, might as well get revenue form playing on Xmas.  I thought they might start the season on Xmas, but it makes more sense to get a week or so of games in so viewers are attuned to the NBA and tune in to the Christmas games.  Skipping Xmas sounded like a big mistake to me.  I guess the NBA realized that as well.

Draft Nov 17, FA maybe Nov 24, then training camp Dec 1.  Compressed but doable.


NBA proposal is to maybe play more series 2 or three games as in baseball to limit travel and contacts.  But a big advantage for teams playing homestands. Two game series probably more reasonable than 3.
Title: BoD
Post by: chipstern on October 24, 2020, 09:29:46 AM
Earth to Bo.

Drummond is gone. 

In the final hour before Thursday's NBA trading deadline, Cleveland agreed to acquire two-time All-Star center Andre Drummond from the Detroit Pistons. The struggling Cavs will send forward John Henson, guard Brandon Knight and one of their two second-round picks in 2023 to the Pistons. 

Both Henson and Knight's salaries now come off the cap for the Pistons.

PF-C Christian Wood is a RFA.

PF-C Thon Maker's [Cannot confirm the status of his qualifying offer]. 

As for the Knicks, it could very well be that both Hayes and Halliburton are gone before we pick.  Bulls and Hawks pssible destinations. And the Pistons currently have Derrick Rose, so they are a possibility as well. 

Just for giggles, with apologies to Kiid, this is how the NBA DRAFT.NET projections have evolved

1    Minnesota   Anthony Edwards   6-5   225   SG   Georgia   Fr.
2    Golden St.   Deni Avdija   6-9   210   SF   Israel   Intl.
3    Charlotte   LaMelo Ball   6-8   180   PG   USA   Intl.
4    Chicago   Killian Hayes   6-5   195   PG   France   Intl.
5    Cleveland   Obi Toppin   6-9   220   PF   Dayton   So.
6    Atlanta   Onyeka Okongwu   6-9   235   PF/C   USC   Fr.
7    Detroit   Devin Vassell   6-7   200   SG   Florida St.   So.
8    New York   Isaac Okoro   6-6   215   SG/SF   Auburn   Fr.
9    Washington   James Wiseman   7-1   235   C   Memphis   Fr.
10    Phoenix   Patrick Williams   6-7   215   SF/PF   Florida St.   Fr.
11    San Antonio   Tyrese Haliburton   6-5   185   PG   Iowa St.   So.
12    Sacramento   Tyrell Terry   6-3   160   PG   Stanford   Fr.
13    New Orleans   Aaron Nesmith   6-6   215   SG/SF   Vanderbilt   So.
14    *Boston   Jalen Smith   6-10   215   PF   Maryland   So.
15    Orlando   Vernon Carey   6-10   270   PF/C   Duke   Fr.
16    Portland   Theo Maledon   6-5   175   PG   France   Intl.
17    *Minnesota   Precious Achiuwa   6-9   225   PF   Memphis   Fr.
18    Dallas   Cole Anthony   6-3   185   PG   North Carolina   Fr.
19    *Brooklyn   Saddiq Bey   6-8   215   SF   Villanova   So.
20    Miami   Tyrese Maxey   6-3   200   SG   Kentucky   Fr.
21    *Philadelphia   Jaden McDaniels   6-10   200   PF   Washington   Fr.
22    *Denver   Josh Green   6-5   200   SG   Arizona   Fr.
23    Utah   Nico Mannion   6-3   190   PG   Arizona   Fr.
24    *Milwaukee   Aleksej Pokusevski   7-0   190   C   Serbia   Intl.
25    *Oklahoma Cty   RJ Hampton   6-4   175   PG/SG   USA   Intl.
26    Boston   Jahmius Ramsey   6-4   190   PG/SG   Texas Tech   Fr.
27    *New York   Kira Lewis   6-3   170   PG   Alabama   So.
28    LA Lakers   Leandro Bolmaro   6-6   180   SG   Argentina   Intl.
29    Toronto   Zeke Nnaji   6-11   240   PF/C   Arizona   Fr.
30    *Boston   Devon Dotson   6-1   185   PG   Kansas   So.       I

31    *Dallas   Isaiah Stewart   6-9   250   PF/C   Washington   Fr.
32    *Charlotte   Tyler Bey   6-7   215   PF   Colorado   Jr.
33    Minnesota   Elijah Hughes   6-6   215   SG   Syracuse   Jr.
34    *Philadelphia   Immanuel Quickley   6-3   190   PG/SG   Kentucky   So.
35    *Sacramento   Daniel Oturu   6-10   240   C   Minnesota   So.
36    *Philadelphia   Paul Reed   6-9   210   PF   DePaul   Jr.
37    *Washington   Reggie Perry   6-9   250   PF   Mississippi St.   So.
38    *New York   Isaiah Joe   6-5   165   PG/SG   Arkansas   So.
39    *New Orleans   Filip Petrusev   6-11   225   C   Gonzaga   So.
40    *Memphis   Udoka Azubuike   6-11   280   C   Kansas   Sr.
41    San Antonio   Cassius Stanley   6-5   190   SG   Duke   Fr.
42    New Orleans   CJ Elleby   6-6   185   SF   Washington St...   So.
43    Sacramento   Tre Jones   6-2   185   PG   Duke   So.
44    *Chicago   Malachi Flynn   6-2   175   PG   San Diego St.   Jr.
45    Orlando   Payton Pritchard   6-2   195   PG   Oregon   Sr.
46    *Portland   Nate Hinton   6-5   210   SG/SF   Houston   So.
47    *Boston   Grant Riller   6-3   190   PG/SG   Charleston   Sr.
48    *Golden St.   Ashton Hagans   6-3   190   PG   Kentucky   So.
49    Philadelphia   Jordan Nwora   6-7   220   SF   Louisville   Jr.
50    *Atlanta   Cassius Winston   6-1   185   PG   Michigan St.   Sr.
51    *Golden St.   Lamar Stevens   6-7   230   SF/PF   Penn State   Sr.
52    *Sacramento   Jay Scrubb   6-6   220   SG   JUCO   So.
53    Oklahoma Cty   Nick Richards   6-11   245   C   Kentucky   Jr.
54    Indiana   Austin Wiley   6-10   260   C   Auburn   Sr.
55    *Brooklyn   Omer Yurtseven   7-0   275   C   Georgetown   Jr.
56    *Charlotte   Markus Howard   5-11   175   PG   Marquette   Sr.
57    LA Clippers   Karim Mane   6-4   200   SG      So.
58    *Philadelphia   Tyrique Jones   6-8   235   PF   Xavier   Sr.
59    Toronto   Mamadi Diakite   6-9   230   PF   Virginia   Sr.
60    *New Orleans   Yoeli Childs   6-8   225   PF   BYU   Sr.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 24, 2020, 10:43:07 AM
In the final hour before Thursday's NBA trading deadline, Cleveland agreed to acquire two-time All-Star center Andre Drummond from the Detroit Pistons. The struggling Cavs will send forward John Henson, guard Brandon Knight and one of their two second-round picks in 2023 to the Pistons.



heh

I listed Drummond in Cavs starting lineup here just 2 days ago
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 24, 2020, 11:04:43 AM
Just for giggles, with apologies to Kiid, this is how the NBA DRAFT.NET projections have evolved



I like their site - and cite it often.

PROFILES and video from here are most useful - not so much the mocks.

FTR - no way in hell does Wiseman fall to 9.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 24, 2020, 12:29:52 PM
I heard with the coming financial crash that the Cavs and Pistons were going to merge and become the Pistoliers, relocate to Akron and be owned by LeBron.  Could I have been fed fake news by the Chinese?  Or was it Rudy?

Okay, so maybe the Pistons are in worse shape than us.
- Bulldog Drummond they had the Christian Wood breakout.

They have my two targets going just before us.
Okoro sounds like a nice player but a poor fit.  Next to RJB, that'd be two wings who can't shoot, plus paint-bound Mitch.

Avdija to GSW is interesting, but they'd probably be better trading down or just trading out for a vet.

Manion and Hampton going ahead of Kira?
Hope so.
Malachi way down at #44 (with Tre Jones 43)?
Any of those 3 could be a good #27 pick.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 24, 2020, 12:44:42 PM
Like I said - take those mocks with a grain of whatever you are sniffing
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 24, 2020, 12:50:56 PM
Avdija to GSW is interesting, but they'd probably be better trading down or just trading out for a vet.

This will always be offer-dependent
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 24, 2020, 12:52:02 PM
Okoro sounds like a nice player but a poor fit.  Next to RJB, that'd be two wings who can't shoot, plus paint-bound Mitch.


Underrate on Barrett

But I wont disagree

I would like a scorer
Title: More Musings
Post by: chipstern on October 24, 2020, 01:48:39 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 24, 2020, 12:52:02 PM
Okoro sounds like a nice player but a poor fit.  Next to RJB, that'd be two wings who can't shoot, plus paint-bound Mitch.


Underrate on Barrett

But I wont disagree

I would like a scorer

So would I, hence VASSELL.  Knicks On Wood. 

Poor shooting is not a lifetime affliction. 

Bruce Bowen had a nice carrear as a defensive stopper, a la Okoro, and while he never was a good FT shooter, and his 2-pt percentages were nothing to write home about, his corner 3-point shooting was epic. 

And we just witnesses Igoudala and Jae Crowder make a pretty significant contribution to the post season. 

It's a roll of the dice. 

Michael Kidd-Gilchrist never progressed in the offensive arena.  Justise Winslow is evolving, but the jury is still out. 

As per the draft board, Wiseman dropping to #8? 

Haha.  Let alone Toppin, who has Cavs written all over him. 

I think the key thing is a fit with RJ.  Vassell checks off all the boxes.  Good size for a modern SG/SF Wing [6'7"], very good defender, drop dead shooter.  Presuming we keep Bullock, Vassell could give us some nice options at the 2-3. 

Brazdeikis and Knox give us coverage at SF/PF.   

I'd be inclined to roll the dice on a PG waiting for us at #27.  Kira Lewis?  Too much to hope for.  Again, I think Hayes and Halliburton are goners between the Bulls, the Hawks and the Pistons. 

Hard to read how PG-SG goes for the Knicks, free agent or draft wise, thinks being so fucked up from the pandemic. 

I don't see Van Vleet bolting the Raptors. 

I don't think the Knicks take the bait on Olidiapo, wonderful player, but due for a max and coming off a really bad injury. 

How committed are the Knicks to Dennis and Frank?  And the Harper kid?  And Payton? 

Rose has really beefed up our team in terms of top-tier player development coaches like Kenny Payne and Johnnie Bryant, given TT a D-oriented AC in Mike Woodson, and all manner of heady, heavy duty front office types, such as capologist Brock Aller as vice president, basketball and strategic planning, talent guru Walt Perrin (who made the case for Donovan Mitchell and Rudy Gobert among many others for the Jazz) as assistant general manager/college scouting and Frank Zanin as assistant general manager/pro scouting....in addition to well regarded scouts, such as 26 year old Alex Kline back in June, and just the other day, long-time Dallas Mavericks advance scout Reginald “Reggie” Johnson, who is slated to serve as a pro personnel scout for the Knicks after spending his first 25 years in the league with the Mavericks, including 14 seasons as the team's advance scout.

Rose has cleared house, and with the exception of Scott Perry, has brought in a new brain trust, you should pardon the expression, and of course, THIBS, so we have intimations of a new approach, a new culture. 

The draft and free agency will give us our first hint as to whether for all of this movement, Leon Rose represents chicken salad or chicken shit, a new culture or the same old tired ass, Quick Fix Knicks Approach.

In any event, I suspect that whom we pick at #8 will be evaluated on the basis of what kind of fit they make with RJ. 

Finally, the POST, cough, published their 5.0 Mock Draft, and they claim Knicks are in love with PG Killian Hayes at #8. 

And at #27? Whoever the fuck this is? 

Robert Woodard II, SF, Mississippi State
Another team that needs shooting. To get it, this wing who can hit 42.9 percent from deep and also has a 7-foot wingspan and 235-pound frame, might be too good to pass up.

About Robert Woodard

Robert Woodard is a long forward with good athleticism, promising playmaking ability on the defensive end, and budding consistency as a floor spacer.  Emerging as a prospect early in his career, Woodard averaged 5.6 points and 3.8 rebounds per game at the 2015 FIBA U16 Americas Championship.  Widely regarded as one of the top-50 prospects in the high school class of 2018 following his senior year at Columbus High School (MS), Woodard stayed in state to play for Ben Howland at Mississippi State.

Averaging 5.7 points and 4.2 rebounds per game as a freshman carving out a reserve role for the Bulldogs, Woodard showed significant improvement as a sophomore scoring 11.4 points and putting down 6.5 rebounds per game while displaying intriguing two-way potential.

A lanky 6-foot-7 wing with a strong 230-pound frame and a terrific 7-foot-1 wingspan, Woodard has excellent physical tools for a forward.  He is also a powerful athlete with enough agility to slide on the perimeter defensively.
 
Playing a significant role off the ball for the Bulldogs, Woodard emerged as a capable floor spacer in his second collegiate season, but did much of his best work at the rim where his athleticism helped him make an impact filling lanes in transition, crashing the offensive glass, and finishing lobs.
 
Having some impressive moments contesting shots, switching onto guards, and blocking shots, Woodard checks a lot of boxes defensively.  His combination of strength, length, and mobility made him a difference maker at the college level.
Defensive Analysis

Possessing the length to challenge shots and be a factor in the passing lanes, the strength to put a body on bigger players inside, and the agility to step out and guard on the perimeter, Woodard flashed intriguing defensive ability last season.
 
Switching to guard multiple positions, he allowed 0.67 points per one-on-one possession as he flashed appealing versatility as an individual defender, even if he is still learning how to make the most of his tools off the ball consistently.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 24, 2020, 01:55:32 PM
How committed are the Knicks to Dennis and Frank?  And the Harper kid?  And Payton?



How committed s any new coach/team president to existing talent that isnt all star calibre?

They are committed rigt now to just 2 players.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 24, 2020, 02:00:32 PM
One of Hayes' comparables is D'Angelo - so I have an open mind on him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 24, 2020, 03:00:32 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 24, 2020, 02:00:32 PM
One of Hayes' comparables is D'Angelo - so I have an open mind on him.

Kirk Hinrich/Spencer Dinwiddie

Be surprised if he is there at #8. 

Lefty interesting, because so is RJ. 

Connection to Frank is also interesting. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 24, 2020, 03:19:48 PM
Strengths: Tall, left handed point guard (6-5), with very good size for his position … Very good length (wingspan measured at 6-foot-8) … Great feel for the game … Nice build, with long arms and wide shoulders that look they can fill up well … Has good level of athleticism … Fluid athlete … Versatile, can play in either guard position thanks to his size and length … Has a high basketball I.Q. … Experienced for his age, has been playing at a good senior level the past two years … Can change speeds and directions at an elite level … Can create his own shot … Has good touch around the basket … Already has a great pull up game and a constantly improving step back shot, with his range going all the way out to the 3-point line … Has improved as a shooter in Spot Up situations … Good ball handler, with a few hesitation moves that help him create his shot … Has excellent body control while driving to the basket … Likes to finish plays hard when he goes to the basket and even dunk when he has space … Has already some nice counter moves when he drives to the basket and can’t get all the way to the basket … At his best in transition, he can be a one man fast break …



Sounds like Russell
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 24, 2020, 03:50:12 PM
Deni Avdija: Yeah, I tried to do my best and it was most important for me to share the ball with other players from other countries who came here and don’t have that big of a stage. I tried to make them better, talk to them, maybe pass them the ball more. At the end of the day 80 minutes isn’t a lot of time to play and prove yourself. It was really a tough three days, everybody was sore and tight, but we still managed to get some good experience and playing time.




Tough not to like this guy


https://www.nbadraft.net/deni-avdija-interview/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 24, 2020, 04:20:09 PM
Promoted in the 1930s as the “fastest girl drummer in the world” Viola Smith, a pioneering drummer  (https://www.theguardian.com/music/2020/oct/24/viola-smith-swing-big-band-drummer-dies-aged-107)and original “hep girl” of the swing and big band era, died on Wednesday in Costa Mesa, California. She was 107.

Check out the vid of one of those all "girl" bands.  Interesting drum kit and her cymbals look all bashed to hell.


Title: Viola [Schmitz] Smith
Post by: chipstern on October 24, 2020, 04:33:23 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 24, 2020, 04:20:09 PM
Promoted in the 1930s as the “fastest girl drummer in the world” Viola Smith, a pioneering drummer  (https://www.theguardian.com/music/2020/oct/24/viola-smith-swing-big-band-drummer-dies-aged-107)and original “hep girl” of the swing and big band era, died on Wednesday in Costa Mesa, California. She was 107.

Check out the vid of one of those all "girl" bands.  Interesting drum kit and her cymbals look all basked to hell.

A month shy of 108. 

Atrributed her long and blessed life to good wine, good books and DRUMMING. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFDD_NxtKZ4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFDD_NxtKZ4)

(https://tonedeaf.thebrag.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/tewl-1-768x435.jpg)

(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-HuKFdvwRxWw/XGXAYpJcmLI/AAAAAAADcHg/L73IT2VA728CaHhRbwS6JjHRfhix4TwRwCLcBGAs/s1600/schmitz-sisters-orchestra-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 24, 2020, 07:58:15 PM
No Gina Schock but impressive nonetheless
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 26, 2020, 12:55:33 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 24, 2020, 01:55:32 PM
How committed are the Knicks to Dennis and Frank?  And the Harper kid?  And Payton?

How committed s any new coach/team president to existing talent that isnt all star calibre?
That isn't starting caliber ... that's our problem.

As for fit:
Vassal checks a lot of boxes.  Shooter, defender, wing.
Hayes: ballhandler, lead guard (awfully young and high risk/reward)
TyH: shooter, ballhandler, passer, combo guard
Okongwu: defender

Hayes (CHI-DET) and Okongwu expected to go ahead of us.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 26, 2020, 09:27:53 AM
I think there aren't many expectations past top 4 players.  I take Hayes out of there for now.

If we love all 5 including Hayes (that would be Wiseman, Avdija, Ball, Edwards) then trying to deal with any of those 5 should be our quest.

Don't see a deal up for 6 and 7 in other words - and dealing down would be offer dependent - as in, "nah, you're not giving us enough, we will just stay at 8" or " we like what we can get at that slot in the trade down and you offered us a piece we like"
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 26, 2020, 09:36:21 AM
I see in the Post mock they have elevated top collegiate point guards Tre Jones (Duke) and Cassius Winston (Mich State) to first round status, Jones all the way to top 20.

I applaud this.  I'd take either on Knicks.

Also see Ainge ends up with Achiuwa and the Spaniard Bolmaro.  That would be good work.  I do expect Danny to deal from his 3 first rounders.  We'll see.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 26, 2020, 11:32:41 AM
Frank kept out of Euro qualifying bubble by NBA


https://www.eurohoops.net/en/nba-news/1118469/vincent-collet-the-nba-refused-to-release-players-for-this-national-team-window/


Other Knicks news- we seem likely to keep Bullock, partly because of his strong ties to CP3 but also due to his character and his friendly contract.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 26, 2020, 11:43:31 AM
Lin back to Warriors?

https://nypost.com/2020/10/26/warriors-rumor-is-first-whisper-of-jeremy-lin-nba-interest/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 26, 2020, 03:25:19 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 26, 2020, 11:32:41 AM
Frank kept out of Euro qualifying bubble by NBA


https://www.eurohoops.net/en/nba-news/1118469/vincent-collet-the-nba-refused-to-release-players-for-this-national-team-window/


Other Knicks news- we seem likely to keep Bullock, partly because of his strong ties to CP3 but also due to his character and his friendly contract.

Kiid that is Marc Berman NY Post conjectural BS. 

The Chris Paul gaslighting is media driven. 

Bullock will stick because he is a 3&D wing with three point range...and a friendly contract. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 26, 2020, 03:50:17 PM
hmmmm

so he's not CP's friend?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 26, 2020, 03:54:42 PM
Bullock will stick because he is a 3&D wing with three point range...and a friendly contract.


sure

I believe I said as much.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 26, 2020, 06:24:41 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 26, 2020, 03:54:42 PM
Bullock will stick because he is a 3&D wing with three point range...and a friendly contract.


sure

I believe I said as much.

YES You DID. 

But the CP3 inferences are Berman Bullshit of a 'KEVIN DURANT is coming ' level, borne of look at me 'Ma media fabrications. 

Carmelo?

CP3? 

Oladipo? 

DeRozan? 

I have seen or heard nothing that convinces me this is a direction we are pursuing. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 26, 2020, 06:56:19 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 26, 2020, 06:24:41 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 26, 2020, 03:54:42 PM
Bullock will stick because he is a 3&D wing with three point range...and a friendly contract.


sure

I believe I said as much.

YES You DID. 

But the CP3 inferences are Berman Bullshit of a 'KEVIN DURANT is coming ' level, borne of look at me 'Ma media fabrications. 

Carmelo?

CP3? 

Oladipo? 

DeRozan? 

I have seen or heard nothing that convinces me this is a direction we are pursuing.

These writers need to name stars in their headlines in order to drive more clicks to their articles.
The Knicks may some day stop star-chasing but the writers never will.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 26, 2020, 08:30:47 PM
Did you ever really believe Durant was coming here?

Different situations altogether - as Paul is not a FA.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 26, 2020, 08:32:01 PM
I have seen or heard nothing that convinces me this is a direction we are pursuing.


What ever do you think we are going to do with our cap space?

Maybe we will be saying NO to players because they are too good.

Yeah, that works.
Title: Congratulations CHAMACO !!!
Post by: carlos123 on October 26, 2020, 10:30:21 PM
Historic photo of the new Justice

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3fpscy4W6EPrUIOBWY_Kch_nzRjuXXm9yuIU1o9sJArqnCRfyFIMvc5vvoNq8jFTMsdtOt03yqnCpn7c-zSR0LxGR3jVVO6DAwZhtPxjw4fzfpXsSK6Zpo9P7TY_zTdpuyZae-d0wGbwBl0DiKrAiuj=w637-h639-no?authuser=0)
AMY CONEY CARTERO
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 27, 2020, 02:16:36 AM
She’s a shit stain on the robes of Justice.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 27, 2020, 09:14:40 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 27, 2020, 02:16:36 AM
She’s a shit stain on the robes of Justice.

WORD > Turd
Title: TIME AND TIDE
Post by: chipstern on October 27, 2020, 10:14:46 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 26, 2020, 08:32:01 PM
I have seen or heard nothing that convinces me this is a direction we are pursuing.


What ever do you think we are going to do with our cap space?

Maybe we will be saying NO to players because they are too good.

Yeah, that works.

Please. 

There are other options other than pissing away cap space just to impress the groundlings and the media, such as on trad quick fixes like ancient mariners Carmelo or CP3 or DeRozan, or a talented but nicked up star such as Oladipo (Anthony McDyess anyone...I eagerly anticipate your Jimmer Freddette/Jordan Hill stock response) or the next available shiny object. 

Remember when the Knicks guranteed Travis Bickle or Knight or whatever that big beige bum and your hero Scott Layden also guaranteed the contract of, what was his name, some 7'6" second rounder, Slakvko Vranes or something like that? 

So we had CAP SPACE FLEXIBILITY at precisely the moment during the season, when Rasheed Wallace was traded to the Hawks, where he played ONE GAME, before they offloaded him to the Pistons, where of course, he helped them to a ring. 

On February 9, 2004, Wallace was traded to the Atlanta Hawks along with Wesley Person for Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Theo Ratliff and Dan Dickau. Wallace played only one game for the Hawks, scoring 20 points through three quarters. He also had six rebounds, five blocks, two assists and a steal in a close loss on the road against the New Jersey Nets, though he did not score in the fourth quarter. Wallace was again traded, in a deal that saw him go from the Hawks along with guard Mike James from the Celtics to the Pistons. In turn, Detroit sent guards Chucky Atkins, Lindsey Hunter and a first-round draft pick to Boston and guard Bob Sura, center Željko Rebrača and a first-round draft pick to Atlanta. Boston also sent forward Chris Mills to Atlanta to complete the deal.

I remember being quite frustratted at the time, because if we had maintained cap/roster flex, we might have had a piece of that pussy, if not Wallace outright. 

CAP SPACE IS NOT SIMPLY THERE TO BE SPENT for fuck's sake. 

A team flush with cap space can help facilitate three and four team trades by virtue of being able to absord contracts, and can garner muliple draft picks in the bargain.  This is how successful franchises evolve. 

As for 2020?

Do we have a shot at Fred Van Vleet?  Doubtful. 

Do we have a shot at Anthony Davis?  CUE LAUGH TRACK....

The NBA is now talking about training camps beginning on December 1st. 

The draft is what, mid-November? 

Not much time for free agency to play out. 

Not that we have a realistic shot at them, but 2021 Giannis and Kawhi could both be on the market. 

In any event, oh Grand Vizeer, who have YOU TARGETTED as realistic free agent or trade options for the Knicks? 
Title: Indeed!
Post by: carlos123 on October 27, 2020, 11:23:56 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 27, 2020, 02:16:36 AM
She’s a shit stain on the robes of Justice.

But my point was that CHAMACO CARTERO is very happy about it. So he lent her his face for the HISTORIC PHOTO.
Title: QUESTION AND ANSWER
Post by: carlos123 on October 27, 2020, 11:31:48 AM
Quote from: chipstern on October 27, 2020, 10:14:46 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 26, 2020, 08:32:01 PM
I have seen or heard nothing that convinces me this is a direction we are pursuing.


What ever do you think we are going to do with our cap space?

Maybe we will be saying NO to players because they are too good.

Yeah, that works.

Please. 
As for 2020?
... ... ...
             ... ... ...
In any event, oh Grand Vizeer, who have YOU TARGETTED as realistic free agent or trade options for the Knicks?

Easy!!!
As a self-appointed spokesperson for Chamaco Cartero...
CP3 and Jimmer Fredette
Title: Re: QUESTION AND ANSWER
Post by: chipstern on October 27, 2020, 12:50:08 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on October 27, 2020, 11:31:48 AM
Quote from: chipstern on October 27, 2020, 10:14:46 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 26, 2020, 08:32:01 PM
I have seen or heard nothing that convinces me this is a direction we are pursuing.


What ever do you think we are going to do with our cap space?

Maybe we will be saying NO to players because they are too good.

Yeah, that works.

Please. 
As for 2020?
... ... ...
             ... ... ...
In any event, oh Grand Vizeer, who have YOU TARGETTED as realistic free agent or trade options for the Knicks?

Easy!!!
As a self-appointed spokesperson for Chamaco Cartero...
CP3 and Jimmer Fredette

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcSWXOarHSfGT_1ZW1DJAY_S5uUiItIyla1lFg&usqp=CAU)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ElR4TkJX0AAglcR.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 27, 2020, 12:59:36 PM
Oladipo has just the one year left - and unless he had a real fine and healthy season in '21 I wouldnt be dropping the money bags on him

I'd appreciate your not putting those words in my mouth.  He'd be risky.

With Chris Paul you know what you'd be getting and at the price for 2 years.  He'd be a boost both to your youth process and your win total.

But then what?

Problem is its tough getting players on the RISE when you dont have that carrot to dangle (see Paul George being dangled to Indiana when thery nabbed Victor and Sabonis).

And you're not getting GREAT just by drafting.

Key is a mixed bag - nailing the DRAFT, a key trade and a free agent signing all at the same time.  Some players blossoming sure helps - that old PLAYER DEVELOPMENT DEPARTMENT at work

Brooklyn would be an example, as would Boston.  But even they aren't necessarily there yet.

When you cant succeed totally you dont stop succeeding partially.  We dont KNOW how much Barrett and Robinson and our #8 pick will advance in short time.  We need to assume they will - and ADD THE PIECES that take us to the next level if they do - not shy away from such. 

You want Randle here but not at the forefront?  That would be fine with you for 2 years?  You think he'd be  a nice piece if he just doesnt try to do too much?  OK, make it happen.  Adding a Paul or anotehr player (Oladipo if you want to run that "risk" for just 21 mil) and nailing the #8 could make that so.

As you were.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 27, 2020, 01:15:17 PM
On February 9, 2004, Wallace was traded to the Atlanta Hawks along with Wesley Person for Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Theo Ratliff and Dan Dickau. Wallace played only one game for the Hawks, scoring 20 points through three quarters. He also had six rebounds, five blocks, two assists and a steal in a close loss on the road against the New Jersey Nets, though he did not score in the fourth quarter. Wallace was again traded, in a deal that saw him go from the Hawks along with guard Mike James from the Celtics to the Pistons. In turn, Detroit sent guards Chucky Atkins, Lindsey Hunter and a first-round draft pick to Boston and guard Bob Sura, center Željko Rebrača and a first-round draft pick to Atlanta. Boston also sent forward Chris Mills to Atlanta to complete the deal.


Good trade for the Hawks.  They went on to ten straight playoff appearances including an EC Finals - the first seven during the Josh Smith (IN THE TRADE) era.

Too bad we dont have a Wallace (or an Abdur Rahim) to deal.  Hopefully we are good enough where RJ isnt our trade chip to rebuild 5 years down the line.  Hopefully we build it WITH RJ.

You ask me who I want in free agency?  I have already said - I trust the new brain trust - will give them a chance to show their vision.  Maybe it is in trade acq. rather than FA.  Maybe a trade up from 8, maybe a trade down.

If you want to ask me about a certain player I will surely answer.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 27, 2020, 01:39:28 PM
As for now -

Yeah, we want Fred Van Vleet

But we are not showing our hand all-in.  On FVV OR on Paul.

Why?  We are giving the confidence to DSJ - a leadership trait he will need if he ends up being the starting PG

You dont want him thinking he is the afterthought, that he only has the job because Knicks missed out on a guy they had to have.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 27, 2020, 01:57:08 PM
DSJ has to compete for whatever job he gets.  He's not a penciled-in rotation guy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 27, 2020, 02:03:08 PM
True

He loses the job as soon as we decide to keep Payton.

But gets it back if we decide to let Elfrid go.

Thanks for the correction.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 28, 2020, 06:44:55 AM
Quote
The New York Knicks made a lot of mistakes in 2019, but perhaps the most avoidable was their ill-advised refusal to take on bad contracts in exchange for assets. The Knicks were so deadset on signing too many power forwards that they missed the opportunity to take on Andre Iguodala's contract when the Golden State Warriors were desperate to get it off of their books. The Memphis Grizzlies capitalized, getting a first-round pick from the Warriors for their troubles before flipping Iguodala to Miami for Justise Winslow at the trade deadline. The cap space the Knicks spent on others, meanwhile, led to yet another lottery appearance.

Fortunately, it seems as if the Leon Rose regime has learned from Steve Mills' mistakes. According to SNY's Ian Begley, the Knicks have made it known that they are willing to absorb bad contracts in exchange for assets. As their cap space is virtually limitless this offseason, that would theoretically make them a player for almost any bad contract in basketball... for the right price.

That price should be quite high. This is undoubtedly a seller's market when it comes to cap space. Only four teams are expected to have anything close to max cap space: the Knicks, Pistons, Hornets and Hawks. Far more teams, however, are going to be dealing with pandemic-induced financial issues. Whether that involves the luxury tax, long-term savings or the need for more immediate space is immaterial. The Knicks should have plenty of interested customers for their space.

They also posit that it could help save the Knix from themselves as then they won't trade away assets for an aging star such as CP3 or Westbrook as in Knix years past.

A number of us were advocating the Knox take on some dreck in order to get picks or a young player in the deal.  ATL smartly did some of that. 

Caveat: MEMf also sent Crowder to MIA and he was an important part of their turnaround. 

Finances around the league could make the NYK cap space quite valuable.  Another side benefit: we'd definitely ditch Portis and Ellington.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 28, 2020, 08:24:43 AM
That 2024 Golden State first rounder sure will be juicy

heh

Memphis now, courtesy of thoise deals, had Dieng's 17 mil for one year along with Winslow's 2/26 remaining

Wave those Grizzlie pom poms.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 28, 2020, 09:45:21 AM
Knicks likely to make a Bertans offer

How much do you think cash-strapped Wiz will be willing to match?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 28, 2020, 10:43:54 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 28, 2020, 08:24:43 AM
That 2024 Golden State first rounder sure will be juicy

heh



Surely could be, only 1-4 protected and just 1 protected the subsequent year.

Exactly what we should do a lot of.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 28, 2020, 10:54:10 AM
That pick will be 25-30.
Title: Ass Hat of the Millennium Burps Again
Post by: lesterluv on October 28, 2020, 11:16:01 AM
lol, you know that now, just like this year's GS pick was, right?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Hamilton Samuels on October 28, 2020, 12:38:56 PM
Coaches speak: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_mPpXBmXL0&feature=push-fr&attr_tag=aImO56wXO4k4eaNi%3A6 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_mPpXBmXL0&feature=push-fr&attr_tag=aImO56wXO4k4eaNi%3A6)
Title: Re: Ass Hat of the Millennium Burps Again
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 28, 2020, 12:42:45 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on October 28, 2020, 11:16:01 AM
lol, you know that now?


yes

Title: Re: Ass Hat of the Millennium Burps Again
Post by: lesterluv on October 28, 2020, 02:01:24 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 28, 2020, 12:42:45 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on October 28, 2020, 11:16:01 AM
lol, you know that now?


yes

lol, there's no need to prove yourself everyday. You already won the prize — nobody can take it away!
Title: Re: Ass Hat of the Millennium Burps Again
Post by: carlos123 on October 28, 2020, 02:08:52 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on October 28, 2020, 02:01:24 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 28, 2020, 12:42:45 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on October 28, 2020, 11:16:01 AM
lol, you know that now?


yes

lol, there's no need to prove yourself everyday. You already won the prize — nobody can take it away!

Let’s face it, Les.
You have a new fan, and his name is Chamaco Cartero.
Lucky you!
Title: BoD
Post by: chipstern on October 28, 2020, 04:16:45 PM
I am in no particular hurry to toss BIG MONEY at ANY Free Agents. 

I am sure that sounds retrograde dumb, but I would much rather keep our powder dry and have the cap space to take on contracts, faciliate trades, build up a stash of draft picks and be ready to pounce on bargains. 

Hey, remember when Ainge needed cap space to sign Kyrie Irving. 

And he jettisoned Thomas & Crowder & Olynik. 

Rose has surrounded himself with a different set of thinkers and coaches. 

I believe--LEAST WAYS, I HOPE--they are looking to be patient and opportunistic. 

I know Kiid views that as naive, but we have tried quick fixes and tossing money against the wall for 20-25 years.

Time to GET FUCKING SMART. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 28, 2020, 05:56:53 PM
You can't judge it til you at least know what the deal is.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 28, 2020, 06:37:29 PM
Chip - you are already a yes on three free agents

Van Vleet, Bogdanovic and Bertans

Likely 5 others if you are to be honest.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: josh on October 28, 2020, 06:53:45 PM
I am considering dropping this site after the election.

Anybody interested in taking on the moderator position if/when I go?

If so, drop me a PM letting me know why you'd want that joy-inducing power. Thanks.
Title: OH NOOOOO!!!!!
Post by: carlos123 on October 28, 2020, 07:19:48 PM
Quote from: josh on October 28, 2020, 06:53:45 PM
I am considering dropping this site after the election.

Anybody interested in taking on the moderator position if/when I go?

If so, drop me a PM letting me know why you'd want that joy-inducing power. Thanks.

Please don’t do it.

I understand it’s probably a lot of work for too few of us.

But some of us really enjoy this site, at least I know I do. And you’re it’s creator. It would never be the same if someone else takes over.

Imagine if Chamaco Cartero becomes the moderator. I’ll probably be the first one banned from here. Unless you make him swear over Trump’s dead body that he won’t do that.

Now, seriously, PLEASE DON’T GO!
Title: Re: OH NOOOOO!!!!!
Post by: josh on October 28, 2020, 07:36:06 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on October 28, 2020, 07:19:48 PM
Quote from: josh on October 28, 2020, 06:53:45 PM
I am considering dropping this site after the election.

Anybody interested in taking on the moderator position if/when I go?

If so, drop me a PM letting me know why you'd want that joy-inducing power. Thanks.

Please don’t do it.

I understand it’s probably a lot of work for too few of us.

But some of us really enjoy this site, at least I know I do. And you’re it’s creator. It would never be the same if someone else takes over.

Imagine if Chamaco Cartero becomes the moderator. I’ll probably be the first one banned from here. Unless you make him swear over Trump’s dead body that he won’t do that.

Now, seriously, PLEASE DON’T GO!

Carlos, Josh-who-created-Escape_from_Elba is not me. (Otherwise, I would have ADMIN powers and be all powerful... bwa ha ha ha!)

And once I hand over what meager power I have, I don't imagine a promise to me would be worth a damn no matter what he swore over...

Our founder has not been seen in these parts in years except for a postless visit about 15 months ago, I think. I know I haven't heard from him, even out of here, for quite a while.
Title: Re: Ass Hat of the Millennium Burps Again
Post by: facilitatorn on October 28, 2020, 08:04:07 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on October 28, 2020, 02:01:24 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 28, 2020, 12:42:45 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on October 28, 2020, 11:16:01 AM
lol, you know that now?


yes

lol, there's no need to prove yourself everyday. You already won the prize — nobody can take it away!
Title: Re: OH NOOOOO!!!!!
Post by: facilitatorn on October 28, 2020, 08:07:00 PM
Quote from: josh on October 28, 2020, 07:36:06 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on October 28, 2020, 07:19:48 PM
Quote from: josh on October 28, 2020, 06:53:45 PM
I am considering dropping this site after the election.

Anybody interested in taking on the moderator position if/when I go?

If so, drop me a PM letting me know why you'd want that joy-inducing power. Thanks.

Please don’t do it.

I understand it’s probably a lot of work for too few of us.

But some of us really enjoy this site, at least I know I do. And you’re it’s creator. It would never be the same if someone else takes over.

Imagine if Chamaco Cartero becomes the moderator. I’ll probably be the first one banned from here. Unless you make him swear over Trump’s dead body that he won’t do that.

Now, seriously, PLEASE DON’T GO!

Carlos, Josh-who-created-Escape_from_Elba is not me. (Otherwise, I would have ADMIN powers and be all powerful... bwa ha ha ha!)

And once I hand over what meager power I have, I don't imagine a promise to me would be worth a damn no matter what he swore over...

Our founder has not been seen in these parts in years except for a postless visit about 15 months ago, I think. I know I haven't heard from him, even out of here, for quite a while.

Dread Pirate Roberts situation?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 28, 2020, 08:13:31 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 28, 2020, 06:37:29 PM
Chip - you are already a yes on three free agents

Van Vleet, Bogdanovic and Bertans

Likely 5 others if you are to be honest.

Absolutely. 

If the price is right and we do not expend all of our cap space and flexibility like a drunken fucking sailor. 

Realistically? 

I think Van Vleet is loyal, happy and will take the max. 

I think Bertrans would be a nice pickup, as we are in need of a stretch four, but I suspect Washington is going to gin up the price. 

Bogdonavich? 

Now you're talking, especially if we don't take a wing like Vassell, whom I would prefer over Okoro. 

As for stretch fours, I'm good with Knox spending some time at the 3 & the 4. 

Finally, I've seen some projections where Toppin might fall to us. 

Yeah, yeah, yeah, his defense.  Catch your breath, BoD. 

The kid is an offensive force with stretch 4 range and a power forward body. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 28, 2020, 08:22:03 PM
I’m on board with letting teams park players we can use at salaries they can’t bear on our books and using the change for a free agent or two.

Conely + 23 for DSJ or Payton + 38

They shave 25 mil at least off of Conely, get a look at someone they might go forward with, and a prospect they have to pay less in an uncertain draft.

Has only short term repercussions for us. In all ways but financial, to the good.
Title: Re: OH NOOOOO!!!!!
Post by: josh on October 28, 2020, 10:15:34 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 28, 2020, 08:07:00 PM
Quote from: josh on October 28, 2020, 07:36:06 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on October 28, 2020, 07:19:48 PM
Quote from: josh on October 28, 2020, 06:53:45 PM
I am considering dropping this site after the election.

Anybody interested in taking on the moderator position if/when I go?

If so, drop me a PM letting me know why you'd want that joy-inducing power. Thanks.

Please don’t do it.

I understand it’s probably a lot of work for too few of us.

But some of us really enjoy this site, at least I know I do. And you’re it’s creator. It would never be the same if someone else takes over.

Imagine if Chamaco Cartero becomes the moderator. I’ll probably be the first one banned from here. Unless you make him swear over Trump’s dead body that he won’t do that.

Now, seriously, PLEASE DON’T GO!

Carlos, Josh-who-created-Escape_from_Elba is not me. (Otherwise, I would have ADMIN powers and be all powerful... bwa ha ha ha!)

And once I hand over what meager power I have, I don't imagine a promise to me would be worth a damn no matter what he swore over...

Our founder has not been seen in these parts in years except for a postless visit about 15 months ago, I think. I know I haven't heard from him, even out of here, for quite a while.

Dread Pirate Roberts situation?

Nah - he got the "keys" to the ship and the name.

I have so much less than that. I get to be first mate who wonders where DPR has gotten himself off to, but keeps the ship cruising about.
Title: Re: OH NOOOOO!!!!!
Post by: carlos123 on October 28, 2020, 10:28:48 PM
Quote from: josh on October 28, 2020, 07:36:06 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on October 28, 2020, 07:19:48 PM
Quote from: josh on October 28, 2020, 06:53:45 PM
I am considering dropping this site after the election.

Anybody interested in taking on the moderator position if/when I go?

If so, drop me a PM letting me know why you'd want that joy-inducing power. Thanks.

Please don’t do it.

I understand it’s probably a lot of work for too few of us.

But some of us really enjoy this site, at least I know I do. And you’re it’s creator. It would never be the same if someone else takes over.

Imagine if Chamaco Cartero becomes the moderator. I’ll probably be the first one banned from here. Unless you make him swear over Trump’s dead body that he won’t do that.

Now, seriously, PLEASE DON’T GO!

Carlos, Josh-who-created-Escape_from_Elba is not me. (Otherwise, I would have ADMIN powers and be all powerful... bwa ha ha ha!)

And once I hand over what meager power I have, I don't imagine a promise to me would be worth a damn no matter what he swore over...

Our founder has not been seen in these parts in years except for a postless visit about 15 months ago, I think. I know I haven't heard from him, even out of here, for quite a while.

Sure, but imagine what he swore over...

Trump’s dead body!

THAT WOULD TRULY MAKE IT WORTH IT
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 29, 2020, 02:09:35 PM
What's the point of Toppin?
We already have a near 20 & 10 PF who plays poor D.
So then you need to move Randle.
While both Randle and Toppin seem like they can only play one position.

I think we need to land a top FA, hit on the draft and try to make a trade splash.

FA:
I'd make a big offer to Capt Van Vleet -- up to $22M a year.
If that fails, I'd try for Bogdanovic @ ~ $18M

Draft:
Vassal; Halliburton.  Hayes or Okongwu if available.
#27 pick -- Kira, Malachi, Tre Jones or Saddiq Bey

Add in FVV + Vassell and our shooting and D improves.  And we'd have a lead guard.  Sure I overpay for that.

Add FVV and Halliburton and our G play improves greatly, better ballhandling and passing and shooting.

Add Bodgan and Vassell/TyH -- shooting and ballhandling upgrade

Trade:
Randle + Knox + Jr. Smith can all go.  Franc too.  Along with anyone whose option we could pick up.  And for the right player I'd also move RJB or Mitch.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 29, 2020, 03:28:21 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 28, 2020, 08:22:03 PM
I’m on board with letting teams park players we can use at salaries they can’t bear on our books and using the change for a free agent or two.

Conely + 23 for DSJ or Payton + 38

They shave 25 mil at least off of Conely, get a look at someone they might go forward with, and a prospect they have to pay less in an uncertain draft.

Has only short term repercussions for us. In all ways but financial, to the good.

I’d do something similar for DeRozan and the Spurs #11 pick.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 29, 2020, 05:35:01 PM
What's the point of Toppin?
We already have a near 20 & 10 PF who plays poor D.
So then you need to move Randle.
While both Randle and Toppin seem like they can only play one position.

Just 1-2 more years of Randle, tops.

And frankly you'd be hoping Toppin is better while being cheaper.

Anyone you add this year through draft is a likely 6th to 8th man anyway early on - unless we deal up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 29, 2020, 05:36:11 PM
Fac's idea is fine - not sure what else it would take - and also not so sure SA divests itself of DeRozen for cheap.
Title: Re: BoD
Post by: Kam on October 29, 2020, 05:38:36 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 28, 2020, 04:16:45 PM


Time to GET FUCKING SMART. 

Knicks new GM Leon Rose formerly with CAA rife with Kentucky connections.
Rose's frontman Worldwide Wes is good friends with Kentucky coach John Calipari.
Knicks then go ahead and hire Kentucky assistant coach Kenny Payne.
Knicks already with Kentucky alumns Julius Randle and Kevin Knox on board...


Reading the tea leaves... 
-I think it is unlikely that either Randle or Knox are traded.
-Knicks will hold on to their cap space so they can be in the market for TRADES for stars in the future AD, KAT, BOOKER
-Knicks won't use Free Agency on cap clogging contracts. Saving a good chunk or using a chunk on short/movable contracts in case one of those guys becomes available.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 29, 2020, 06:13:40 PM
Randle + Knox + Jr. Smith can all go.  Franc too.  Along with anyone whose option we could pick up.  And for the right player I'd also move RJB or Mitch.



Lost me.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 29, 2020, 07:04:30 PM
2 draft night deals in the same vein,

Spurs send DeRozan + #11 for Portis + #27 (they can keep Bobby or let him go to save the 15 mil)

Jazz send Conely + #23 for Payton + #38

We draft #8, #11, and #23 this year

We can start

Conely, Barrett, DeRozan, Randle, and Robinson

We can keep our talented youth and most effective vets to mix with the draft picks off the bench.

I’d sweeten either deal with future pick swap options, but very little else, possibly next year’s second rounder, Iggy, or DSJ.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 29, 2020, 07:31:24 PM
Jazz went to a G7 against DEN with one starter missing.
They have 2 all-stars at key positions.
I don't see why they'd decide they don't want their starting PG anymore.
Besides the team was just sold for almost $2B.
And their first move is going to be to gut the team to save money?

A more likely target could be Hayward, making $34M, with the Celts over the lux tax and not really needing him.  Not sure we have pieces they want, but Taj and Elf (combined $17M) could fit there.  A reliable vet backup Big and a solid backup PG.
They have lots of young guys who barely find court time, so vets would be their want.
But the main impetus would be to get under the cap, while adding functional pieces.

Knix would get one year of pricey Haywire, and be first in line to retain his services at a more reasonable rate (say $18M).  Nice all-around player who would help with ballhandling, movement and shooting.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 29, 2020, 09:18:09 PM
Sign and trade for Hayward - maybe to Pacers has been mentioned - as has a rip it up, give me a longer deal with Celts.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 29, 2020, 10:45:41 PM
RE:   Aforementioned Robert Woodard


https://hoopshype.com/2020/10/25/nba-prospect-robert-woodard-when-im-on-the-court-im-a-different-person-im-relentless/


RW: Considering my skill on the defensive end, I’m a 3-and-D guy. I feel like I can switch the one through five and hold my own as well. I take defense personally. I get offended when people score on me. But I can really give the credit to my freshman year, practicing with Quinndary Weatherspoon every day. He really made me a better defender. I learned ankles and learn different moves and how to cut people off. I feel like it will translate well to the next level, especially with the guard play that we had in practice as well as in games going against great. I feel like my defense will translate very well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 30, 2020, 03:43:15 AM
I’ll happily take Gordon from the Celts if they’re shipping us the 17th pick as payment for cleaning their cap.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 30, 2020, 08:25:20 AM
Danny says PASS.  And doesn't pick up the phone when you next call.

Lets talk about things more realistic

About Chris Paul......

I actually think it makes sense OKC keep him.  Deals will be available later on should the Thunder fizzle even a little.  No telling how strong they come out of the gate.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 30, 2020, 10:51:33 AM
Yeah they have a sweet little team that's fun for the fans to watch. And a future that's sweetened by 15 first round picks and swaps over the next 5-6 years. I'm sure everybody's available, but don't see them in any kind of a hurry to do anything until they get an offer they love.
Title: Re: OH NOOOOO!!!!!
Post by: chipstern on October 30, 2020, 11:58:49 AM
Quote from: josh on October 28, 2020, 07:36:06 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on October 28, 2020, 07:19:48 PM
Quote from: josh on October 28, 2020, 06:53:45 PM
I am considering dropping this site after the election.

Anybody interested in taking on the moderator position if/when I go?

If so, drop me a PM letting me know why you'd want that joy-inducing power. Thanks.

Please don’t do it.

I understand it’s probably a lot of work for too few of us.

But some of us really enjoy this site, at least I know I do. And you’re it’s creator. It would never be the same if someone else takes over.

Imagine if Chamaco Cartero becomes the moderator. I’ll probably be the first one banned from here. Unless you make him swear over Trump’s dead body that he won’t do that.

Now, seriously, PLEASE DON’T GO!

Carlos, Josh-who-created-Escape_from_Elba is not me. (Otherwise, I would have ADMIN powers and be all powerful... bwa ha ha ha!)

And once I hand over what meager power I have, I don't imagine a promise to me would be worth a damn no matter what he swore over...

Our founder has not been seen in these parts in years except for a postless visit about 15 months ago, I think. I know I haven't heard from him, even out of here, for quite a while.

I would surely hope that you would reconsider and continue to keep this Jurasic Park for Baby Boomers intact and frothing. 

In any, event, should you go, thanks for the ride. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 30, 2020, 12:00:23 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 29, 2020, 02:09:35 PM
What's the point of Toppin?
We already have a near 20 & 10 PF who plays poor D.
So then you need to move Randle.
While both Randle and Toppin seem like they can only play one position.

I think we need to land a top FA, hit on the draft and try to make a trade splash.

FA:
I'd make a big offer to Capt Van Vleet -- up to $22M a year.
If that fails, I'd try for Bogdanovic @ ~ $18M

Draft:
Vassal; Halliburton.  Hayes or Okongwu if available.
#27 pick -- Kira, Malachi, Tre Jones or Saddiq Bey

Add in FVV + Vassell and our shooting and D improves.  And we'd have a lead guard.  Sure I overpay for that.

Add FVV and Halliburton and our G play improves greatly, better ballhandling and passing and shooting.

Add Bodgan and Vassell/TyH -- shooting and ballhandling upgrade

Trade:
Randle + Knox + Jr. Smith can all go.  Franc too.  Along with anyone whose option we could pick up.  And for the right player I'd also move RJB or Mitch.

Lord. 

Seek a higher dosage for your dotage. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 30, 2020, 12:30:58 PM
Rachel Nichols podcast today - pretty cool.

Richard Jefferson insisting Thibs will look straight away to be competitive.

They did have some chuckles about NY being where bad deals go to die.

No draft talk this episode, sadly.
Title: Re: OH NOOOOO!!!!!
Post by: FWK00 on October 31, 2020, 01:25:49 AM
Quote from: josh on October 28, 2020, 07:36:06 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on October 28, 2020, 07:19:48 PM
Quote from: josh on October 28, 2020, 06:53:45 PM
I am considering dropping this site after the election.

Anybody interested in taking on the moderator position if/when I go?

If so, drop me a PM letting me know why you'd want that joy-inducing power. Thanks.

Please don’t do it.

I understand it’s probably a lot of work for too few of us.

But some of us really enjoy this site, at least I know I do. And you’re it’s creator. It would never be the same if someone else takes over.

Imagine if Chamaco Cartero becomes the moderator. I’ll probably be the first one banned from here. Unless you make him swear over Trump’s dead body that he won’t do that.

Now, seriously, PLEASE DON’T GO!

Carlos, Josh-who-created-Escape_from_Elba is not me. (Otherwise, I would have ADMIN powers and be all powerful... bwa ha ha ha!)

And once I hand over what meager power I have, I don't imagine a promise to me would be worth a damn no matter what he swore over...

Our founder has not been seen in these parts in years except for a postless visit about 15 months ago, I think. I know I haven't heard from him, even out of here, for quite a while.

Just a reminder that http://knicksmecca.blogspot.com/ (http://knicksmecca.blogspot.com/) is available to all of you as authors. I think Chip and Carlos already have those credentials.

It is what you make of it.  Anyone interested in posting and toking can provide an email address I can contact you at and you're in.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on October 31, 2020, 01:36:29 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 28, 2020, 08:22:03 PM
I’m on board with letting teams park players we can use at salaries they can’t bear on our books and using the change for a free agent or two.

Conely + 23 for DSJ or Payton + 38

They shave 25 mil at least off of Conely, get a look at someone they might go forward with, and a prospect they have to pay less in an uncertain draft.

Has only short term repercussions for us. In all ways but financial, to the good.

Yeah. Utah had some interest in Portis.

Portis, Ellington, DSJ, and 38 for Conley and 23 works.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 31, 2020, 02:07:31 AM
Portis, Ellington, DSJ, and 38 for Conley and 23 works.

Sure they'll give us their starting PG and a 1st round pick for scrubs.
Nonsense.
_______________________________________________

So, uh, then who plays Point for Utah?
Mitchell?  Muddy?  Clarkson?  Jr. Smith?
You realize they're actually trying to contend.

And if UTA wants Portis, they could just wait for the Knix to drop his $15M option and then sign Portishead as a FA for under $9M using their MLE exception.
Which would save them $6M or more.
_______________________________________________________

UTA's cap is in good shape actually.
https://hoopshype.com/salaries/utah_jazz/
Conley and Gobert will be large ending deals. 
Mitchell still on his rook deal  -- just $5M next year.
Bogdanovich at $18M is reasonable.
Royce and Jingles on reasonable deals (around the MLE $9M level).

They'll need to decide on re-signing Gobert, which really comes down to what price.
And whether they bring back Conley on some much lower deal.  or find another starting PG.  Conley didn't mesh well in Y1, but unclear why and it turned out to be a strange year.  So another year to try to work it out is best for them, before deciding on his future there.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on October 31, 2020, 02:33:41 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 31, 2020, 02:07:31 AM
Portis, Ellington, DSJ, and 38 for Conley and 23 works.

Sure they'll give us their starting PG and a 1st round pick for scrubs.
Nonsense.
_______________________________________________

So, uh, then who plays Point for Utah?
Mitchell?  Muddy?  Clarkson?  Jr. Smith?
You realize they're actually trying to contend.

And if UTA wants Portis, they could just wait for the Knix to drop his $15M option and then sign Portishead as a FA for under $9M using their MLE exception.
Which would save them $6M or more.
_______________________________________________________

UTA's cap is in good shape actually.
https://hoopshype.com/salaries/utah_jazz/
Conley and Gobert will be large ending deals. 
Mitchell still on his rook deal  -- just $5M next year.
Bogdanovich at $18M is reasonable.
Royce and Jingles on reasonable deals (around the MLE $9M level).

They'll need to decide on re-signing Gobert, which really comes down to what price.
And whether they bring back Conley on some much lower deal.  or find another starting PG.  Conley didn't mesh well in Y1, but unclear why and it turned out to be a strange year.  So another year to try to work it out is best for them, before deciding on his future there.

Well, I don't know what Utah is doing but not only is Conley being rumored but so is Gobert [to Boston, no less].

Now you can hate my trade but I don't think NY is trading for big contracts as a philanthropic gesture to other teams.

Utah was just sold to a bazillionaire so maybe they do just hang onto everybody and make another run.  Who knows.  But if they do reboot, Conley is an expensive, aging, shelf-life-expired kinda guy to be trying to trade.

Like it or not the Knicks are kind of exclusive in having the cap space potential to absorb these kinds of contracts.

Much as I admire your logic concerning the Knicks off-season, we ain't signing FVV.

And if observers like Hahn are correct, cap space will be used to park a body that won't be any of our first choices for veteran help.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 31, 2020, 07:37:37 AM
Quote from: FWK00 on October 31, 2020, 02:33:41 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 31, 2020, 02:07:31 AM
Portis, Ellington, DSJ, and 38 for Conley and 23 works.

Sure they'll give us their starting PG and a 1st round pick for scrubs.
Nonsense.
_______________________________________________

So, uh, then who plays Point for Utah?
Mitchell?  Muddy?  Clarkson?  Jr. Smith?
You realize they're actually trying to contend.

And if UTA wants Portis, they could just wait for the Knix to drop his $15M option and then sign Portishead as a FA for under $9M using their MLE exception.
Which would save them $6M or more.
_______________________________________________________

UTA's cap is in good shape actually.
https://hoopshype.com/salaries/utah_jazz/
Conley and Gobert will be large ending deals. 
Mitchell still on his rook deal  -- just $5M next year.
Bogdanovich at $18M is reasonable.
Royce and Jingles on reasonable deals (around the MLE $9M level).

They'll need to decide on re-signing Gobert, which really comes down to what price.
And whether they bring back Conley on some much lower deal.  or find another starting PG.  Conley didn't mesh well in Y1, but unclear why and it turned out to be a strange year.  So another year to try to work it out is best for them, before deciding on his future there.

Well, I don't know what Utah is doing but not only is Conley being rumored but so is Gobert [to Boston, no less].

Now you can hate my trade but I don't think NY is trading for big contracts as a philanthropic gesture to other teams.

Utah was just sold to a bazillionaire so maybe they do just hang onto everybody and make another run.  Who knows.  But if they do reboot, Conley is an expensive, aging, shelf-life-expired kinda guy to be trying to trade.

Like it or not the Knicks are kind of exclusive in having the cap space potential to absorb these kinds of contracts.

Much as I admire your logic concerning the Knicks off-season, we ain't signing FVV.

And if observers like Hahn are correct, cap space will be used to park a body that won't be any of our first choices for veteran help.

Afraid you are right. 

I am content to park bodies accumulate draft assets and facilitate trades. 

When Memphis wanted to dump Iggy, they added Crowder.  Not like Miami giving to JW wasn't a significant gimme, but still, being opportunistic is the way to go, like Jerry West and Red Auerbach.

Hey, when the Celtics let Olynek walk to sign Kyrie, BOOM, instant stretch 4 on the cheap. 

Likewise, Celtics signing Kanter on the cheap, more in keeping with his market value or lack thereof, and he gave them good minutes. 

As for our own free agent team options?  The draft will give us a clue. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 31, 2020, 08:04:44 AM
UTA's cap in is good shape.
Conley's making a ton of money at $34M but it's just for next year which Jazz are able to handle.  No need to dump him.
They need Conley at PG and don't need to move him to get under the tax.

They do need Conley to mesh with Mitchell.  On paper Conley was a nice fit.  Not sure why it wasn't smoother.  Though after a bad start, Conley came on strong before the stoppage.


The GoBear situation has a few elements. 
1) He's eligible for a super-max, and folks just don't pay C's that much anymore.  I'm pretty sure they want to keep Gobert but the price is key, as Mitchell will likely be a max fella in a few more years.  How much is an excellent defensive C who doesn't score much worth?  $20M?  $25M?  More?
2) The relationship with Mitchell and the team after Gobert acted like a jerk and got infected/infectious.  Has that been squared away?   

Bottom Line: PG is a key position in this league and Conley's money isn't a big issue for one more year for UTA.  Gobert is more about moving forward long term and the value/price of a C in the League these days.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 31, 2020, 08:13:36 AM
I like the idea of collecting some assets for taking on a bad contract.
But teams mostly do that to avoid lux tax.  And that's not the case with UTA/Conley.  Dropping the final year of Conley just takes them out of contention without any benefit (except spending less).

That's why I mentioned Hayward.  He's useful to BOS and they'd like to keep him, but he's not essential and they are $17M over the tax line.  We could get them under.  Maybe Taj and Elf wouldn't be enough but they are useful vet role players  BOS could use.

I'll have to look for bad contracts on teams over the tax line.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 31, 2020, 03:05:34 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 31, 2020, 08:13:36 AM
I like the idea of collecting some assets for taking on a bad contract.
But teams mostly do that to avoid lux tax.  And that's not the case with UTA/Conley.  Dropping the final year of Conley just takes them out of contention without any benefit (except spending less).

That's why I mentioned Hayward.  He's useful to BOS and they'd like to keep him, but he's not essential and they are $17M over the tax line.  We could get them under.  Maybe Taj and Elf wouldn't be enough but they are useful vet role players  BOS could use.

I'll have to look for bad contracts on teams over the tax line.

Hayward?

Christ, maybe we can McDyess while we are at it. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 31, 2020, 04:48:03 PM
I have us giving only Taj and Elf to get a guy who would be our best player.
It's just a one year ($34M) commitment.
And you figure things out from there.

The only thing it would do negatively is take a large bite out of our cap space.

I still think a hefty offer to FVV could/would work.
Say $24M.  Probably too much for TOR to match.
And FVV would have to think hard and long about turning down that kind of money and a chance to run his own team.  So what if it's a $6M overpay.  We'd have a legit starting PG (and one less $6M bench player).  If Fred is on board, you could structure it starting at $25M and dropping $1M a year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 31, 2020, 08:48:35 PM
Haliburton on Sirrius NBA Radio draft special today.

Confident kid.

Said to have told some that he feels he is the top player in this draft.

Warriors see Wiseman as appealing now.  Makes sense.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 31, 2020, 08:55:30 PM
On Okoro - hosts said a kid has to be real freaking good to have NO SHOT and still be in the top 10.

Do we really want another jumpshot averse guy?

GREAT at everything else though.  And plenty ready for this level.

Edwards meanwhile painted as a bit of a baby (youngest guy in draft) - as in "do Steph and Klay really want to babysit a guy this year"?

Knicks'll do it.
Title: That's what I do!
Post by: carlos123 on October 31, 2020, 11:21:17 PM
https://twitter.com/i/status/1322679224692604928 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1322679224692604928)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ElsZU8wWkAAr-lW.jpg)

https://twitter.com/KingJames/status/1322688339426729985?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1322688339426729985%7Ctwgr%5Eshare_3&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fsports.yahoo.com%2Fbarack-obama-biden-michigan-campaign-3-pointer-233041292.html (https://twitter.com/KingJames/status/1322688339426729985?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1322688339426729985%7Ctwgr%5Eshare_3&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fsports.yahoo.com%2Fbarack-obama-biden-michigan-campaign-3-pointer-233041292.html)
Title: Death Toll of Kiid The Ass Clown Death Tour Stupidity Finally Quantified
Post by: lesterluv on October 31, 2020, 11:57:16 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/31/us/politics/stanford-study-infections-trump-rallies.html

30,000 cases
699 deaths in addition to Herman
Most sadly, not all of these among attendees.
If only!
Title: Anybody Brave?
Post by: bodiddley on November 01, 2020, 03:00:05 AM
I've already noted that Okoro and RJB make a poor tandem.
We really need a guard or wing shooter.

WiseMan makes little sense when we have Mitch.
Toppin could apprentice under Randle a year, but drafting a poor defending PF is underwhelming.  At PF, I would take Okongwu, who is a beast.

WiseMan is a good fit for GSW, but do they really want to use their #2 pick on a C?
I wouldn't. Can't they just pick up Dwight, McGee, a Plumlyzeller type, or a Biyombo on the cheap?  Kanter and Len will likely be available for not much. Though they probably want a defender/lob target.*

Edwards could be a nice pick to both help now and build for the future. I like the Edwards pick if they flip Wiggins for Love. Add in Love as a vet rebounder, stretch 4. Then get the fresh legs and energy of Edwards, and just have one mistake prone scoring yute instead of two.   That's how I would go it.

* Here's an unlikely hypo:
Would folks be willing to trade Mitch & the #8 pick to GSW for the #2 pick?
NYK would get Ball or Edwards, a blue chip G.
We'd lose a very promising young defensive C to move up.
GSW would get a long defensive cog and rim assaulter.
Mitch could look terrific there.  A Mitch-Dray backline.
And they'd still get to draft a Vassell, Haliburton, Hayes type offender.
Could be a good deal for both teams. Provided Knix hit on the pick and get a future AS type.
Mitch & Vassell for Ball. Or Mitch & TyH for Edwards. Some permutation like that.
With the cupboard bare, can Knix afford to do a 2-for-1 to upgrade at G?
Any takers?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 01, 2020, 06:23:24 AM
I've already noted that Okoro and RJB make a poor tandem.



Right.

But then I believe you gave your blessing to the pick.

I dont disagree.  I trust management/coaching staff (except maybe Woody - heh - just kidding).  And was pointing out that Okoro, even sans jumper, could be a winning cog immediately - and in time.

"If you build it, they will come, Ray".  The shooters will surely come.  Okoro would be BUILDING.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 01, 2020, 08:12:45 AM
No, I've repeatedly said we need to draft a shooter.
Okoro isn't what we need.  Would be a mistake for NYK.

I'd love for Wise Man, Top Pin & O'Koro to all go ahead of us, so more shooters/scorers move down our way.

TyH has been still getting a good deal of praise.
Killian's rise seems to have peaked and he's now getting critiqued more.
(way left-hand dominant, not that great an athlete, etc)
Title: Re: Anybody Brave?
Post by: chipstern on November 01, 2020, 03:34:58 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 01, 2020, 03:00:05 AM
I've already noted that Okoro and RJB make a poor tandem.
We really need a guard or wing shooter.

WiseMan makes little sense when we have Mitch.
Toppin could apprentice under Randle a year, but drafting a poor defending PF is underwhelming.  At PF, I would take Okongwu, who is a beast.

WiseMan is a good fit for GSW, but do they really want to use their #2 pick on a C?
I wouldn't. Can't they just pick up Dwight, McGee, a Plumlyzeller type, or a Biyombo on the cheap?  Kanter and Len will likely be available for not much. Though they probably want a defender/lob target.*

Edwards could be a nice pick to both help now and build for the future. I like the Edwards pick if they flip Wiggins for Love. Add in Love as a vet rebounder, stretch 4. Then get the fresh legs and energy of Edwards, and just have one mistake prone scoring yute instead of two.   That's how I would go it.

* Here's an unlikely hypo:
Would folks be willing to trade Mitch & the #8 pick to GSW for the #2 pick?
NYK would get Ball or Edwards, a blue chip G.
We'd lose a very promising young defensive C to move up.
GSW would get a long defensive cog and rim assaulter.
Mitch could look terrific there.  A Mitch-Dray backline.
And they'd still get to draft a Vassell, Haliburton, Hayes type offender.
Could be a good deal for both teams. Provided Knix hit on the pick and get a future AS type.
Mitch & Vassell for Ball. Or Mitch & TyH for Edwards. Some permutation like that.
With the cupboard bare, can Knix afford to do a 2-for-1 to upgrade at G?
Any takers?

NO
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 01, 2020, 03:43:07 PM
Mitch's future salary would be at issue.  I'd think about it.  GS would have to kick something in.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 01, 2020, 03:44:44 PM
Wolves would first need to pass on LaMelo
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 01, 2020, 04:11:49 PM
It is a weak draft with no clear cut future stars.
And reportedly a lot of teams willing to trade down.
So if the trade needs balancing, could be:

#2 pick & Looney for #8 & Mitch
Would give us a C replacement.

If that goes too far, could be:
#2 pick & Chriss = #8 & Mitch

Marquese is young (23) and bouncy.  Had a solid season for GSW, but is limited for now.If they got Mitch, Chriss would be expendable for them.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 01, 2020, 04:31:18 PM
Keep Mitch. Take the guy available at 8. Use later picks and space to move into the teens if possible.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 01, 2020, 04:45:37 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 01, 2020, 04:31:18 PM
Keep Mitch. Take the guy available at 8. Use later picks and space to move into the teens if possible.


You better believe.

Quote from: bodiddley on November 01, 2020, 04:11:49 PM

#2 pick & Chriss = #8 & Mitch

Kill that noise.
Title: Keep Mitch
Post by: carlos123 on November 01, 2020, 04:47:50 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 01, 2020, 04:31:18 PM
Keep Mitch. Take the guy available at 8. Use later picks and space to move into the teens if possible.

It looks like BoZ is determined to get rid of him. BoZ don't like Cs.

I was going to say that thankfully he don't run the team, but unlike most here, I distrust new management and coaching staff.

Does anybody know where Miller is heading? I'm looking for a new team to root for.

https://www.postingandtoasting.com/2020/8/19/21375163/mike-miller-will-search-for-new-coaching-opportunities-after-getting-snubbed-by-the-knicks (https://www.postingandtoasting.com/2020/8/19/21375163/mike-miller-will-search-for-new-coaching-opportunities-after-getting-snubbed-by-the-knicks)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 01, 2020, 06:00:39 PM
I like Mitch.  Think he's our best player.  I could be happy with 10 years of Mitch.
I don't know enough about Ball or Edwards to know if I'd do that deal.
I do think a starting PG is much more valuable than a starting C these days.

I'm fine keeping Mitch and drafting Vassell/TyH/Hayes at #8.
Though Ball & Looney for Mitch & #8 is intriguing.

I just don't know the draftees well enough to really have an opinion.
Proposing a deal isn't the same as advocating it.
I was just trying to think what would get us into the conversation for GSW's #2 pick.  And I think Mitch would get them interested.  Be a great fit there.

Randle and RJB will look better with a strong PG and some shooters.
FVV as a FA or Ball as a PG draftee would help a lot.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 01, 2020, 07:03:34 PM
Warriors likely better off dealing with Charlotte - they'd be almost a guarantee to get Wiseman or Avdija - plus whatever CHA gives.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 01, 2020, 07:04:09 PM
Jordan would of course take BALL.
Title: Sure
Post by: carlos123 on November 01, 2020, 10:02:47 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 01, 2020, 07:04:09 PM
Jordan would of course take BALL.

He also took Kwame Brown.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 02, 2020, 12:41:43 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 01, 2020, 07:03:34 PM
Warriors likely better off dealing with Charlotte - they'd be almost a guarantee to get Wiseman or Avdija - plus whatever CHA gives.

Well, trade down slightly to draft a guy they prefer anyway is certainly good.
But hard to see what CHA has to offer.  Monk is expendable, but not likely a GSW priority.
Biyombo is available and could help GS but has a $17M price tag, so a trade doesn't work.

Anyway, GSW is in Win Now mode, so will likely try to pick up Dwight or another 15-20 min defensive C
on the cheap or with their MLE.  For all of Mitch's promise, he can still be mistake prone, as he's still developing.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 02, 2020, 09:39:02 AM
Biyombo is a free agent

Monk, PJ Washington...... but likely future picks as well, may help GS.

Unlikely.... we'll see.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 02, 2020, 10:01:21 AM
41/41, 52/48

https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/trump_administration/trump_approval_index_history

Excellent numbers for Trump
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 02, 2020, 11:35:38 AM
Mike Miller is still under a Knicks contract for next year.  Maybe he can re-join Westchester's coaching staff.
Title: Ass-Clown in Chief
Post by: lesterluv on November 02, 2020, 11:50:24 AM
9,388,7899/236,751

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

Actually, pretty piss poor

Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 02, 2020, 10:01:21 AM
41/41, 52/48

https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/trump_administration/trump_approval_index_history

Excellent numbers for Trump
Title: Miller
Post by: carlos123 on November 02, 2020, 12:17:06 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 02, 2020, 11:35:38 AM
Mike Miller is still under a Knicks contract for next year.  Maybe he can re-join Westchester's coaching staff.

I know. Just hoping he finds a better position elsewhere. I’m sure the Knocks wouldn’t mind.
Title: CP3 rumor
Post by: Kam on November 02, 2020, 08:59:58 PM
I’m also told that there is a deal on the table that is comfortable from Sam Presti’s perspective, and the ball is in Leon Rose’s court.

-Jonathan Macri
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 02, 2020, 10:06:12 PM
nice

(Presti I am sure is fine taking 1-year salary matches and the 8th and one other pick)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 02, 2020, 10:45:37 PM
Today's draft trio -

Jayden Smith at 8
Tre Jones at 27
Yoelli Childs at 38
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 02, 2020, 11:28:42 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 02, 2020, 10:45:37 PM
Today's draft trio -

Jayden Smith at 8
Tre Jones at 27
Yoelli Childs at 38

You’ll do better tomorrow I’m sure.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 03, 2020, 03:40:30 AM
You'd be willing to give up 1st round picks for old expensive CPThree?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 03, 2020, 09:17:32 AM
Well, no.  I meant NICE that Presti is dealing with us


I think Rose would negotiate down from that ask.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 03, 2020, 10:09:49 AM
Knix were probably an early call.  We're always suckers for old overpaid Big Names.

The market for CP3 could be limited.  A lot of teams will be watching their financials. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 03, 2020, 10:25:48 AM
Philly is a possibility if theyd give enough juice with Horford or Harris
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 03, 2020, 10:31:04 AM
Mike Scott, Tobias Harris, the #21 pick and the #49 pick for CP3 and the #25
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 03, 2020, 11:12:32 AM
I'm not sure how limited the market will be.

There's at least a few teams that may see Paul as the missing piece in a wide-open championship situation. As marvelous as the Lakers were (very), nobody views them as a unstoppable machine given the age of their prime mover (that may be a mistake.)

And if league revenues get significantly reduced by covid next season, player salaries will be reduced to reflect that, limiting the potential damage to holding Paul's contract.

So, could be wrong, but I really don't expect a fire sale.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 03, 2020, 12:19:33 PM
I think they'll just hold on to him if the market isn't robust.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 03, 2020, 01:03:57 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on November 03, 2020, 11:12:32 AM

And if league revenues get significantly reduced by covid next season, player salaries will be reduced to reflect that, limiting the potential damage to holding Paul's contract.



Is that really true?  As a max player  CP3 takes up percentage of a team's cap.  So it should be an equal hit under any cap#, right?

If the cap is 120 and CP3 is scheduled to earn 35% that's 42mil , leaving the team another 78mil or 65%.
If the cap is 100 and CP3 is scheduled to earn 35% that's 35mil, leaving the team another 65mil or, again, 65%.

So it's an equal hit UNLESS all other non-MAX players made a fixed salary and not one determined by a percentage.

BUT if that were the case then non-MAX players cap hits would be more than normal in a shrinking cap which then makes every % more precious and actually CP3 would be MORE COSTLY in that scenario...  as fewer teams would be able to to take on a 35% hit in a shrinking cap that has to account for fixed salaries of non-MAX players.

So taking on CP3's remaining money will constitute either an equal or greater cost to a team's cap.  Not a lesser one.  Meaning CP3's contract is either the same or an even bigger albatross than it would've been if the cap didn't shrink.

I think your theory doesn't hold water.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 03, 2020, 01:14:09 PM
I will admit that watching CP3 or Westbrook running the team would be much more interesting than Randle or RJB bringing it up, or Franc trying to cross halfcourt with a live dribble.

Though why not just toss $25M at FVV.  A 4/$100M contract.
Start him at $26.5M, dropping $1M per year ($23.5M final year).
Is he really turning that down?
Any chance TOR matches?

Boom, we have a starting PG.
Draft a shooter -- Vassell or TyH.
FVV - Vassal - Mitch = 3 solid defenders.
Giving us 2 guys who can hit 3's.

FVV - RJB - Vassell - Randle - Mitch
Things would start to come into focus.

Keep Bullox and Mo Hark(?).
We have Knox and Franc.
Decide what to do with Elf, Jr. Smith, Franc.
Pick up a backup C (Len, Meyers Leonard, Somebody Else)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 03, 2020, 01:51:21 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 03, 2020, 01:03:57 PM

Is that really true?  As a max player  CP3 takes up percentage of a team's cap.  So it should be an equal hit under any cap#, right?

......

I think your theory doesn't hold water.

Yes it is really true. My point, that teams financial risk is lessened because pandemic induced revenue reductions will result in reduced salaries, is very really true.

My theory hold water like a German-made Ortlieb drybag.

Percentage of cap doesn't change, yes. But that wasn't my point.

Point is it is not some mega risk. If you have the assets or can manipulate space and trying to go for it, you can go for it. If the season gets really f'd by rona, well, you don't have to pay so much. The subsequent year it's a big fat expiring. This ain't some crazy ass 5 years to go albatross. It's a lot of money to a really good player for a fairly short amount of time.


*** disclosure......I advocate trying to win at all times. I think trying to win is good for a franchise. I think young players develop better when mixed in with great players in the pursuit of victories, rather than when given unfettered minutes in pursuit of a lotto spot. No, I don't want to give up a whole lot for a player whose playing days are nearing their end and doesn't really coincide nicely with our long term future, but I surely can't argue with a measured deal for him. That said, I don't think any deal we would want to make will get it done.
Title: One Last Time
Post by: chipstern on November 03, 2020, 01:57:42 PM
One Last Time.

NO MORE QUUICK KNICKS' FIXES. 

God bless Chris Paul, but fuck him and Sam Presti both. 

Van Vleet Ain't Coming. 

I would be startled if Haliburton is sitting there at #8.  The Bulls, the Hawks and the Pistons all are salivating. 

For that matter, I would be shocked if Okoro is there at #8.  Yeah, yeah, I know, his shooting, but he projects as a Thibs main stem.  There were any number of cats who translated as all D & No-Ohhhh, who turned into pretty exeplary scoring/shooting threats.  Jimmy Butler springs to mind. 

Rather than any BIG DEALS, I think it more likely the Knicks stay put or try and get another mid-first rounder or maybe trade down for a package to get more picks.   

The fact that Knicks Fans, Media and Blog Douchenozzles are projecting all manner of give away all our assets in some of the stupidest trade proposals I have ever seen, depresses me only slightly less than the fact that Trump is in the White House and many people think he is God's elect.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 03, 2020, 02:33:27 PM

NO MORE QUUICK KNICKS' FIXES.

God bless Chris Paul, but fuck him and Sam Presti both.


Well, thankfully you do not speak for Mr Rose, who will pursue all avenues.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 03, 2020, 02:56:29 PM
KP lovers delight


https://www.nba.com/draft/2020/prospects/aleksej-pokusevski#/


I assume Chip also has HAYES gone, as well as Avdija

This would give us a choice between Okongwu, Vassel, Toppin, Pokusevski, Nesmith, Williams, Lewis, Smith, Anthony, Carey and Achiuwa.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 03, 2020, 03:31:54 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 03, 2020, 02:33:27 PM
NO MORE QUICK KNICKS' FIXES.

Seems to me bringing in Thibs is more Win Now (or as soon as practicable), rather than patient development.
I was all for Atkinson, who seems to be a good developmental coach.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 03, 2020, 04:30:27 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 03, 2020, 10:31:04 AM
Mike Scott, Tobias Harris, the #21 pick and the #49 pick for CP3 and the #25

We shouldn’t offer anything near that much.
Title: Oh Knick fans.... so petty
Post by: Kam on November 03, 2020, 04:39:14 PM
NEW YORK KNICKS
@nyknicks

“I feel like I just made a difference.” — Dennis Smith Jr. after voting



Joey ✊🏻
@joeymagrini

Replying to
@nyknicks
he should be trying to make a difference on the court
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 03, 2020, 06:15:58 PM
Portis, Gibson, Ellington, Ntlikina, #38, a future protected #1 and a future #2.

For Paul, Isiah Roby and the #53

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 03, 2020, 08:14:56 PM
Paul, Smith, Barrett, Roby, Bullock, Knox, Brazdekis, Randle, Robinson, Wooten, Pinson, Harper, #8, #27, #53

That's a solid 15 - with some free agent money still left.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 03, 2020, 09:18:47 PM
I like this site for their analysis but their mocks, including this one, are often batshit crazy


https://www.nbadraft.net/nba-mock-drafts/


Title: Election Night Jitters?
Post by: bodiddley on November 04, 2020, 01:08:03 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 03, 2020, 06:15:58 PM
Portis, Gibson, Ellington, Ntlikina, #38, a future protected #1 and a future #2.
For Paul, Isiah Roby and the #53

So they take on 3 bad one year contracts to get Franc and a future #1?
Why bother larding up on mediocrity?  No need for matching contracts (and in fact those guys aren't even on Knix payroll unless we pick up their options just to hand them to OKC).

Better for OKC to simply trade CP3 for Franc and a future #1 (they should ask for Knox as well).  Then they'd have tons of cap space.  If they want Portis, they could likely sign him for around $7M - $9M as a FA or use that money otherwise.  Cap space better than Portis for $15M or Taj for $9M. 

Even Franc not the most natural fit, since he'd be backing up Shai who is also 3-point shy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 04, 2020, 11:28:16 AM
This is why you hire a real coach

Per Hoopshype

The Phoenix Suns are building their franchise around Devin Booker, but the All-Star guard may not want to stay with the team much longer. Per Ryen Russillo on The Bill Simmons Podcast (starts at 68:00 mark), it’s “the worst kept secret” in the NBA that Booker wants to leave the Suns. Booker’s name has been floated around in trade rumors since the summer. Marc Berman of the New York Post reported in July that the New York Knicks’ hiring of head coach Tom Thibodeaux and president Leon Rose could put them in play for the 24-year-old: – via Adam Wells @ Bleacher Report


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 04, 2020, 11:29:21 AM
And yeah - I know - Berman is a turd - save it
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 04, 2020, 11:37:56 AM
I am sure the 8 is not good enough, but this is interesting

Aran Smith: Hearing same as @KevinOConnorNBA , Boston trying to package their three picks to move up, and the player the Celtics are targeting is bigman Onyeka Okongwu #nbadraft #nbadraftrumor – via Twitter nbadraftnet


Celts have 14, 26 and 30

That would give us 4 first rounders, with 3 picks in 5 at end of round 1 - then a 5th draftee at 38.  (trade fodder still, all of them)

Only problem is the guaranteed deals.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 04, 2020, 11:55:21 AM
LaMelo Ball may be falling right in Leon Rose's lap - should Minnesota pass on him.

Wiseman wont get past CHA, Okongwu solidly up top , now AVDIJA to the Bulls mentioned at 4.

May have to start looking at what we need to give to move up to 5.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 04, 2020, 12:38:53 PM
Would suck if BK gets this guy

Hampton evaluates his own strengths and weaknesses – RJ Hampton: I think a lot of my weaknesses are just defensive schemes and learning where to be at all times on defense, locking in full-time on the defensive end. I feel like I’m athletic enough to be a great defender, so just locking in on that. I think a weakness was shooting, but I’ve been in the gym the past seven months with one of the best shooters all-time, so I’m getting that down pact. I think probably my biggest strengths are attacking downhill, making plays for other guys, getting to the basket. I think I’m the most athletic guard in the draft, but I think I’m the fastest person in maybe the NBA when I get there next year. – via Michael Scotto @ HoopsHype
Title: This aint the 2016 or 2018 draft
Post by: Kam on November 04, 2020, 12:40:36 PM
I think this draft could be like 2014, 2015, or 2017.  Meaning in 3-5 years you'll be completely re-ranking the players in a re-draft.   With that in mind, i'm not trading up, but i'd be open to trading back and picking up more selections.  You want to have more chances to land a player, not give up capital to target a specific player as the player you target is likely to be similar value to someone you find further back.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 04, 2020, 01:01:52 PM
I gave you the Boston trade - do you pull that trigger?

8 for 14, 26 and 30
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 04, 2020, 01:06:05 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 04, 2020, 01:01:52 PM
I gave you the Boston trade - do you pull that trigger?

8 for 14, 26 and 30

If they want to add Marcus Smart....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 04, 2020, 01:08:33 PM
Don't be a dick
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 04, 2020, 01:11:19 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 04, 2020, 01:06:05 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 04, 2020, 01:01:52 PM
I gave you the Boston trade - do you pull that trigger?

8 for 14, 26 and 30

If they want to add Marcus Smart....

I would do that trade with the picks straight up. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 04, 2020, 01:12:57 PM
And look to take who at 14, Kam  Just best available?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 04, 2020, 01:18:04 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 04, 2020, 01:12:57 PM
And look to take who at 14, Kam  Just best available?

Michael Porter Jr.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 04, 2020, 01:22:22 PM
Heh

Maybe we can deal Knox and the #8 for Porter
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 04, 2020, 01:23:04 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 04, 2020, 01:12:57 PM
And look to take who at 14, Kam  Just best available?

Bam Adebayo
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 04, 2020, 01:25:44 PM
heh

#14 picks

http://www.mynbadraft.com/nba-draft-picks/14th-overall/140509/

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 04, 2020, 01:32:50 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 04, 2020, 01:01:52 PM
I gave you the Boston trade - do you pull that trigger?
8 for 14, 26 and 30

Awful idea, imo.
Knix already have lots of mediocre youth to develop.
Knix need quality more than quantity at this point.

And we already have the #27 pick (so #26 doesn't get you anything better)
Adding in #8 & #27 is enough.  In fact likely to take minutes from Knox or Franc as it is (potentially both if we draft Vassal & Kira/Malachi).

If there's someone you love in the 10-14 range, simply pick him at #8.
And BOS' target, Okongwu won't be there at 8.
If we were, we should draft him.
But if Okongwu is there at 8 and that's who BOS wants, then you get them to give us #14 and Robert Williams (or maybe Grant).  Then I'd consider it.  Though I'd still rather #8 (and Okongwu).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 04, 2020, 01:42:58 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 04, 2020, 01:25:44 PM
heh

#14 picks

http://www.mynbadraft.com/nba-draft-picks/14th-overall/140509/

When choosing between the history of #8 picks and the history of #14 picks the winner is clear.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 04, 2020, 02:05:11 PM
You dont like Bo Kimble?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 04, 2020, 02:23:43 PM
I had such hopes for that guy.

Okongwu, Deni, Devin, Killian, Williams, and Haliburton, along with Wiseman or Edwards if they drop, are guys you keep the 8th pick for unless someone wants to give you a stupid deal.

Saddiq Bey is the mid lotto target just past the edge of this list.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 04, 2020, 02:40:39 PM
Hayes was the new belle of the ball 2 weeks back (having never been mentioned previously)

Now its Williams?

Take a stand and have some backbone.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 04, 2020, 03:21:00 PM
I’ve like both for months, my son. They are players who are still useful in a good rotation if they miss their swing skills and are real problems if they can round out their games.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 04, 2020, 03:35:16 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on May 20, 2020, 03:50:21 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 20, 2020, 08:45:47 AM
Why were the Bulls eager/willing to ditch Eddy Curry?
I don't think Curry was that interested in basketball, except as a source of income and probably fame. 

Too bad we don't have the archives of this forum's past.
I'd like to see who was on board with Curry and what their arguments were.
I correctly surmised he would be a bum (he did manage to give us one pretty good year).  A low impact player.

I was on board with Curry based on the extent of his ability to make crazy individual plays and his 19 and 7 (forgot he was ever that productive w Chicago, so I feel slightly less of a sucker). Since his  NY tenure, I have had much more emphasis on mental approach, awareness, fitness, and energy.

That’s why Hayes is up there with Ball and Edwards among my top three guards and Okongwu is ahead of Toppin and Advija among the forwards. It’s also why I like Killian Tille and Tyler Bey for later picks in this class.
Title: BoD
Post by: chipstern on November 04, 2020, 04:32:05 PM
Haliburton was my man, until he began rising up the draft board.  A point guard with a handle and a shot and a tough defender. 

If he is there at #8? 

Otherwise....as for Kiid and his trades.  "Dont' be a dick?"

Hey....

Though I'd still rather #8 (and Okongwu).

Agree. 

And if Boston wanted him?

My response is still MARCUS SMART & your three draft picks. 

Was Red Auerbach dickish when he basically traded Gerald Henderson for the draft pick which ended up as Len Bias (rest in peace)?

Was Danny Ainge dickish when he converted the earthly remains of KG and some faded elders for a king's ransom of Nyets draft picks? 

Was Masai Ujiri being dickish when he exacted every single drop of blood from the Knicks in the way of players and draft picks for Carmelo? 

Is it likely the Celtics would trade Smart when Kemba's knees are a bit dicey? 

Doesn't hurt to ask.   

At #8, if both Okongwu AND Okuro are there, who would you hope Thibs and Perry and Rose throw down for. 

Big Okongwu would give us coverage at both PF and C where we presently have Robinson, Randle and Wooten. 

Wing Okouro would give us coverage at both SF and SG where we presently have Knox, Brazdeikis, Bullock, Barrett and Ntilikina (projecting, if we keep him, as much as a Iguodala wing). 

Unless we grab another #1 in between 8 & 27, it's a question of who drops among the second tier of PGs. 

Kira Lewis unlikely to fall past Miami. 

Bolmaro?  Ramsey?  Mannion? 

Anthony has been dropping like a stone.  All the way to 27?

Who the fuck knows. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 04, 2020, 04:38:37 PM
I do like Okongwu, but everything I've seen has Okongwu going 4-7.
Still some flux of course.
Okoro a bad fit with RJB.

Get a scorer/shooter.  Vassal, TyH, Hayes.
Likely one or two of those should fall our way.
I'm interested in Haliburton, but think he's been overhyped lately.
Suddenly he's said to have amazing vision, tight handles and good defense.
I don't really know these guys at all.  But i think his agent or someone did some good work for TyH.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 04, 2020, 04:39:35 PM
Boston got Bias

Seattle when they dealt Henderson got Scottie Pippen

heh

(no pick protections back then)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 04, 2020, 04:46:41 PM
Is it likely the Celtics would trade Smart when Kemba's knees are a bit dicey?

Doesn't hurt to ask.   



Come on, mannnnn.......
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 04, 2020, 04:57:03 PM
Nets dealt Garnett for Thaddeous Young, who gave them a couple of nice 17 PER seasons - then dealt Young for...........


CARIS LAVERT



heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 04, 2020, 07:51:51 PM
That’s the right way to do it. Old known value for younger less known potential.

What do ya’ll think of this guy for a later pick?

http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2020/11/4/21548285/know-the-prospect-mason-jones (http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2020/11/4/21548285/know-the-prospect-mason-jones)

Okongwu over Okoro generally. Vassell over Okoro for us.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 04, 2020, 08:34:45 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 04, 2020, 04:39:35 PM
Boston got Bias

Seattle when they dealt Henderson got Scottie Pippen

heh

(no pick protections back then)

Were they dickish in trading him to the Knicks. 

Trading our #5 and #8 picks for Henderson and Juuwan Oldham. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 04, 2020, 08:50:19 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 04, 2020, 07:51:51 PM
That’s the right way to do it. Old known value for younger less known potential.

What do ya’ll think of this guy for a later pick?

http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2020/11/4/21548285/know-the-prospect-mason-jones (http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2020/11/4/21548285/know-the-prospect-mason-jones)

Okongwu over Okoro generally. Vassell over Okoro for us.

That's how I would go.

Still...

All things being equal, I could still see the Knicks going all in for Okoro.  He is regarded as one of the most NBA ready players in the draft, in terms of his competitive nature, physical maturity, defense, finishing skills, and passing.  A classic 3&D wing, BoD. 

Vassell is also rated an excellent defender, and a better long range sniper, but his body is not nearly as robust.  At the risk of repeating myself, Jimmy Butler couldn't shoot for shit when he first came into the league.  Neither could Bruce Bowen.  PS: Vassell's length and frame are very Bruce Bowen. 

Okoro?  Think Jimmy Butler, Andre Igudola, Jae Crowder. 

Okoro has intangibles that will make Thibs' Johnson sit up and shout.

Okongwu over Okoro generally. Vassell over Okoro for us.

Again, that's how I would role, but I think the Knicks are very serious about Okoro. 

And both Maxey and Lewis have boosters inside the Knicks. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 04, 2020, 08:58:30 PM
Not hoops related, but wonderful

http://youtu.be/ZFUWI6P9C1A (http://youtu.be/ZFUWI6P9C1A)
Title: No hoops related
Post by: carlos123 on November 04, 2020, 10:01:48 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 04, 2020, 08:58:30 PM
Not hoops related, but wonderful

http://youtu.be/ZFUWI6P9C1A (http://youtu.be/ZFUWI6P9C1A)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3eoqGvU_Ld6QQGKY-BklzV1FcVWtuTwxb17QQj3qhbiHn19NrNtJ-d9mdx9GakvdbSGXvFgVMgrRoizYvqYQBrHTgmnqgaU5zLOlMlLVyD0npJp1SlrnOec-c3Dx1rw0a72ei3vm8lpfzvRusMifs_V=w601-h239-no?authuser=0)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 05, 2020, 05:07:51 AM
Quote from: chipstern on November 04, 2020, 08:50:19 PM
All things being equal, I could still see the Knicks going all in for Okoro.  He is regarded as one of the most NBA ready players in the draft, in terms of his competitive nature, physical maturity, defense, finishing skills, and passing. A classic 3&D wing, BoD.

With only one wing.  Thus far he's got the D.
He still needs to add the Bo, uh, I mean the 3.

For every Bowen or Crowder who successfully added a 3-ball, you have talented defenders such as MKG or Stan Johnson who just couldn't shoot. 

Even Crowder is a cautionary tale, as his offense was so dismal there were doubts about his usefulness.  It wasn't until his 2nd team and second contract and 5th season where he developed 3-ballism.  And Crowder was a 35% 3-point shooter in college.  Okoro 29% (though I haven't found his totals/shots per game). 

Btw, I wanted to get Crowder when he was scrapping around on DAL before his BOS breakout.  Tough, competitive, physical defender.  Thing is if the O doesn't come around, then you can get such limited-O defenders at firesale prices.  Right now, I'd add StanJohn at $4M (he has a $3.8M player opt-in with TOR, but he doesn't get minutes there).  StanJohn shot 37% on college 3's as an 18 year old frosh.  Just 24 right now.  MKG was bought out by CHA and finished the year on the vet min with DAL.  He'll be a cheap pickup.  27.  But looks like limited possibility of 3's.  Only made 28 in 8 years.  And with RJB I don't see MKG as a fit for NYK.  I didn't realize MKG was just 6'6" -- I thought he was 6'8".  I think that's part of the issue, his skill set fits more at combo F then combo wing.

Knix are already a poor shooting team.  And since the only draft pick we hit on in the past decade plays for DAL, we can't afford a decent role player, who might add an offensive game in a few years.  Still waiting on Francophone for that.  And for Knox to settle down and compete better on at least one end.  Okoro could be a terrific fit on some other teams (MIni comes to mind), just not hereabouts.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 05, 2020, 11:35:34 AM
Quote from: chipstern on November 04, 2020, 08:34:45 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 04, 2020, 04:39:35 PM
Boston got Bias

Seattle when they dealt Henderson got Scottie Pippen

heh

(no pick protections back then)

Were they dickish in trading him to the Knicks. 

Trading our #5 and #8 picks for Henderson and Juuwan Oldham.

We got the Mark Jackson pick in the Pippen deal

Oldham was a different deal.  The pick dealt for Juwaan was one we got for Darrell Walker - and became Olden Polynice.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 05, 2020, 11:47:14 AM
Okoro started 5-24 from deep, then finished 15-45

Had a 3 game stretch where he was 5-10

Made 2 in a game 4 times

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/gamelog/_/id/4432822/isaac-okoro
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 05, 2020, 02:26:38 PM
Pistons news

a)  They are interested in keeping Christian Wood, who the Knicks are in on

b)  they are willing to deal UP or DOWN depending on offers - and are seeking second round picks for this year.

Would Knicks give up the #38 to move just 1 slot?
Title: Go Figure
Post by: chipstern on November 05, 2020, 04:04:08 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 05, 2020, 11:47:14 AM
Okoro started 5-24 from deep, then finished 15-45

Had a 3 game stretch where he was 5-10

Made 2 in a game 4 times

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/gamelog/_/id/4432822/isaac-okoro

That would seem to be a good portent. 

The young man is a WORKER BEE. 

The type of player who challenges his own team mates and makes them one hell of a lot better in practice. 

Meanwhile, in the unsubstantiated rumor mill, Golden State apparently enamored of Avdija. 

This latest mock is interesting.  Don't know how reliable, but the draft is surely volatile. 

1    Minnesota   Anthony Edwards   6-5   225   SG   Georgia   Fr.
2    Golden St.   Deni Avdija   6-9   210   SF   Israel   Intl.
3    Charlotte   Onyeka Okongwu   6-9   235   PF/C   USC   Fr.
4    Chicago   LaMelo Ball   6-8   180   PG   USA   Intl.
5    Cleveland   Obi Toppin   6-9   220   PF   Dayton   So.
6    Atlanta   Killian Hayes   6-5   195   PG   France   Intl.
7    Detroit   Patrick Williams   6-7   215   SF/PF   Florida St.   Fr.
8    New York   Tyrese Haliburton   6-5   185   PG   Iowa St.   So.
9    Washington   Devin Vassell   6-7   200   SG   Florida St.   So.
10    Phoenix   Isaac Okoro   6-6   215   SG/SF   Auburn   Fr.
11    San Antonio   James Wiseman   7-1   235   C   Memphis   Fr.
12    Sacramento   Saddiq Bey   6-8   215   SF   Villanova   So.
13    New Orleans   Aaron Nesmith   6-6   215   SG/SF   Vanderbilt   So.
14    *Boston   Jalen Smith   6-10   220   PF   Maryland   So.
15    Orlando   Theo Maledon   6-5   175   PG   France   Intl.
16    Portland   Precious Achiuwa   6-9   225   PF   Memphis   Fr.
17    *Minnesota   Tyrese Maxey   6-3   200   SG   Kentucky   Fr.
18    Dallas   Tyrell Terry   6-3   160   PG   Stanford   Fr.
19    *Brooklyn   RJ Hampton   6-4   175   PG/SG   USA   Intl.
20    Miami   Vernon Carey   6-10   270   PF/C   Duke   Fr.
21    *Philadelphia   Cole Anthony   6-3   185   PG   North Carolina   Fr.
22    *Denver   Jaden McDaniels   6-10   200   PF   Washington   Fr.
23    Utah   Nico Mannion   6-3   190   PG   Arizona   Fr.
24    *Milwaukee   Jahmius Ramsey   6-4   190   PG/SG   Texas Tech   Fr.
25    *Oklahoma Cty   Josh Green   6-5   200   SG   Arizona   Fr.
26    Boston   Tyler Bey   6-7   215   PF   Colorado   Jr.
27    *New York   Kira Lewis   6-3   170   PG   Alabama   So.
28    LA Lakers   Aleksej Pokusevski   7-0   190   C   Serbia   Intl.
29    Toronto   Malachi Flynn   6-2   175   PG   San Diego St.   Jr.
30    *Boston   Leandro Bolmaro   6-6   180   PG/SG   Argentina   Intl.
31    *Dallas   Isaiah Stewart   6-9   250   PF/C   Washington   Fr.
32    *Charlotte   Desmond Bane   6-5   220   SG   TCU   Sr.
33    Minnesota   Zeke Nnaji   6-11   240   PF/C   Arizona   Fr.
34    *Philadelphia   Devon Dotson   6-1   185   PG   Kansas   So.
35    *Sacramento   Immanuel Quickley   6-3   190   PG/SG   Kentucky   So.
36    *Philadelphia   Elijah Hughes   6-6   215   SG   Syracuse   Jr.
37    *Washington   Reggie Perry   6-9   250   PF   Mississippi St.   So.
38    *New York   Paul Reed   6-9   210   PF   DePaul   Jr.
39    *New Orleans   Udoka Azubuike   6-11   280   C   Kansas   Sr.
40    *Memphis   Daniel Oturu   6-10   240   C   Minnesota   So.
41    San Antonio   Cassius Stanley   6-5   190   SG   Duke   Fr.
42    New Orleans   Isaiah Joe   6-5   165   PG/SG   Arkansas   So.
43    Sacramento   CJ Elleby   6-6   185   SF   Washington St...   So.
44    *Chicago   Filip Petrusev   6-11   225   C   Gonzaga   So.
45    Orlando   Payton Pritchard   6-2   195   PG   Oregon   Sr.
46    *Portland   Grant Riller   6-3   190   PG/SG   Charleston   Sr.
47    *Boston   Tre Jones   6-2   185   PG   Duke   So.
48    *Golden St.   Ashton Hagans   6-3   190   PG   Kentucky   So.
49    Philadelphia   Jordan Nwora   6-7   220   SF   Louisville   Jr.
50    *Atlanta   Nate Hinton   6-5   210   SG/SF   Houston   So.
51    *Golden St.   Cassius Winston   6-1   185   PG   Michigan St.   Sr.
52    *Sacramento   Jay Scrubb   6-6   220   SG   JUCO   So.
53    Oklahoma Cty   Nick Richards   6-11   245   C   Kentucky   Jr.
54    Indiana   Omer Yurtseven   7-0   275   C   Georgetown   Jr.
55    *Brooklyn   Markus Howard   5-11   175   PG   Marquette   Sr.
56    *Charlotte   Lamar Stevens   6-7   230   SF/PF   Penn State   Sr.
57    LA Clippers   Austin Wiley   6-10   260   C   Auburn   Sr.
58    *Philadelphia   Jalen Harris NV   6-5   195   PG/SG   Nevada   Jr.
59    Toronto   Mamadi Diakite   6-9   230   PF   Virginia   Sr.
60    *New Orleans   Yoeli Childs   6-8   225   PF   BYU   Sr.


Tyrese Haliburton, Devin Vassell, Isaac Okoro and James Wiseman falling to #8? 

Go figure. 

And Kira Lewis there at #27 like low hanging fruit? 

Doubt Lewis is there that deep into the draft.  I would think he is a Pat Riley pick. 

If this were indeed how things went down, would seem to suggest Lewis getting a look at the point, Haliburton at the 2-spot, and RJ at the 3. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 05, 2020, 04:24:40 PM
Yeah.  That mock is very very interesting in that 3 of our guys PLUS WISEMAN would be available at 8.  We could deal down to 11 and safely get a likeable guy, even gamble by going further down, thus adding another piece of our puzzle.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 05, 2020, 04:33:57 PM
Good heads up on the deep dive into Okoro’s 3pt shooting. He may be the better than advertised guy in this one.

Sign me up for Hali and Kira. FA to Joe Harris & Christian Wood.

Mitch Randle Taj
Wood Wooten Knox
Harris Bullock Iggy
Barrett Hali Smith
Frank Kira Payton

I’d look to move DSJ for a big body, a really big body, but it would be a nice base to build from.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 05, 2020, 06:57:12 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 05, 2020, 11:47:14 AM
Okoro started 5-24 from deep, then finished 15-45

Also finished the season 5-19 in his last 6 games.
(never trust kiid with numbers)
But thanks for the link.

I was mostly interested in if his 29% came on volume or just taking a wide open 3 now and then.  2.5 3FGA's a game.  So he was trying to get some off.
Only had 4 games out of 28 where he made more than one 3 PT FG.  Never made more than 2.  Also his FT% was 67% so he'll fit right in with the Knix.

Aside from the 3 game streak where he went 5-10, he was 15/59 for just 25% in 25 games ... and this on  the shorter college arc.

Verdict: Okoro is very unlikely to be any kind of credible 3 ball shooter his entire first contract. 
 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 05, 2020, 07:00:17 PM
Look for the next Joe Harris (/Dunkin Robinson).
Time to get him was when he was on CLE.
Harris 29, a defensive liability, and will be pricey.
I'd much rather Bogdanovich, who has a handle and some passing chops.
(or Vassal/Haliburton)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 05, 2020, 07:06:49 PM
(never trust kiid with numbers)


heh    lol

Its in the link, not hidden
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 05, 2020, 07:09:00 PM
I do think I like Smith over Okoro

Certainly Toppin as well

YG may have some Jalen Smith info.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 05, 2020, 08:11:47 PM
I don't get the fascination with moving up or down.

NYK have the #8 pick, just need to get a solid starter (no more risky picks such as Franc and Knox).  Identify the future all-star, because one or more will be there at #8, (likely in the 10-14 historically).  The team is paying a few hundred thou to a handful of scouts and evaluators to make a roughly $10M - $20M decision (player salary + franchise impact).  Do your homework and get it right.

ZackLowdown has an article on ESPn where he seems to think GSW can get a good haul for the #2 pick.  I don't think this draft has a #2 that gets you a big haul.

I can't see ATL going with Killer Hayes, as per that mock posted recently.
You want to pair Trae with a 19 year old int'l in the backcourt?
Hayes seems to need the ball and will take some time to be a decent defender.
Seems a rather poor fit.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 05, 2020, 08:16:05 PM
I don't expect the draftee to start.  We have 5 worthy.  Bring the kid along with minutes, of course.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 05, 2020, 08:20:45 PM
As you say, minutes are what's important.
I didn't necessarily mean a 1st year starter.  Though I'd like/prefer that.
Since we're a non-playoff team in development mode.

As I see it, Dr. Julius is our only legit starter.
Title: heh lol #99^n
Post by: carlos123 on November 05, 2020, 09:50:29 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 05, 2020, 07:06:49 PM
(never trust kiid with numbers)


heh    lol

Its in the link, not hidden

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3elx3iQ_A4QT8_Q28nntZZPtwzrSaFtLPOwz-0y0xpWQil1Vm8KTDYqFWG7EGR22JEU9c3smhgflwVnogcJLNI6kKhTS5fLT-WsFFfUHimaVgkCcdl6uzEQZcAc1giqXBQe7prlQqwA4rFnCCIdIb_f=w323-h548-no?authuser=0)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: josh on November 06, 2020, 09:15:22 AM
The news on the election is good this morning.

The >120,000 new cases of COVID-19 yesterday is not.

And the highest average daily deaths in 9 weeks, north of 900, is also not good news at all.
Title: MY HERMAN GAVE HIS ALL..........IN VAIN!
Post by: lesterluv on November 06, 2020, 09:22:12 AM
(https://bnonews.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/6212020HermanCain.jpg)


Can you believe they actually counted the votes?????

rofl
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 06, 2020, 09:52:57 AM
GSW probably wants Avidja or WiseMan.
So if they can move down, pocket an asset and still get one of those two, it seems like good strategy for them.  Avidja looks Top 5.  WiseMan harder to predict.

I guess some of it is how badly does CHI or DET want either Ball or Edwards.
And would they be fine with Hayes instead.

Interesting draft with seemingly everyone willing to trade down.

Zach Lowe mentioned a deal with Sacto giving up Rich Holmes, Bjelica, the #12 pick and a future "lightly protected" 1st for the #2 pick.
And then he thought that wouldn't be enough.
Holmes is a tough mofo (love him).  Bjelica can shoot.
#12 likely gets you Saddiq Bey or Nesmith.
To me that's a decent haul for #2 (Ball or Edwards).
Then to have another 1st thrown in and say it's still too light.  Hmmm.

I thought LowZach overvalues the #2 pick this year in a parity draft without obvious standouts.  Otherwise, the problem is SAC doesn't really need more G's.  They have Fox at Point and either Hield or Bogdan at SG.  Though the Kings always seem to do weird stuff and stumble around.
Title: Despite the Forum's Chief AssClown's Worries....
Post by: lesterluv on November 06, 2020, 09:55:20 AM
about homeless and indigent types not getting correct coronavirus protection information, it appears those who take their Rona info from Potus get the disease the most:

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/05/counties-with-worst-virus-surges-overwhelmingly-voted-for-trump.html (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/05/counties-with-worst-virus-surges-overwhelmingly-voted-for-trump.html)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 06, 2020, 09:56:18 AM
Hoopshype today has GS loving Edwards.  Changes daily.  They see him as possible face of franchise post-Steph.  Makes some sense
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 06, 2020, 09:57:53 AM
Cavs dealing down from 5 is becoming a topic

One price stated for NY was Knox, the 8 and the 27 (eaaaasy, Chip)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 06, 2020, 10:01:38 AM
Bo

Looking at it from King's perspective I'd be thinking that not much would be given up in that deal to get the 2

Holmes and Bjelica can't really be considered building blocks
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 06, 2020, 10:06:55 AM
I would think Avdija or Edwards would be excellent King's fits, as would Okoro.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 06, 2020, 10:38:45 AM
Two #12 picks (this year and future) + Holmes & Bjelica?
Not enough?

GS needs to find a way to build up their bench, so adding two role playing vets works for them.  Plus #12 in this draft should be fairly good.  (Bey/Nesmith)

I still like GSW adding a rook (Avdija, Edwards, WiseMan) if they also flip Wiggy for Love.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 06, 2020, 11:47:25 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 06, 2020, 09:57:53 AM
Cavs dealing down from 5 is becoming a topic

One price stated for NY was Knox, the 8 and the 27 (eaaaasy, Chip)

(https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/73418469.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 06, 2020, 11:49:30 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 06, 2020, 10:38:45 AM
Two #12 picks (this year and future) + Holmes & Bjelica?
Not enough?

GS needs to find a way to build up their bench, so adding two role playing vets works for them.  Plus #12 in this draft should be fairly good.  (Bey/Nesmith)

I still like GSW adding a rook (Avdija, Edwards, WiseMan) if they also flip Wiggy for Love.

Avdija only makes sense if they flip Wiggins.  Not sure WHY, after they exchanged Russell for him.  But Love WOULD Make sense.  Would be a center on the Warriors. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 06, 2020, 12:13:03 PM
Doubt Lewis is there that deep into the draft.  I would think he is a Pat Riley pick.


Vernon Carey listed as the Heat pick, which would make me throw up.

I think this draft is plenty deep.

May need to really follow a second team this year after seeing the 11/18 results
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 06, 2020, 12:15:44 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 06, 2020, 11:49:30 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 06, 2020, 10:38:45 AM
Two #12 picks (this year and future) + Holmes & Bjelica?
Not enough?

GS needs to find a way to build up their bench, so adding two role playing vets works for them.  Plus #12 in this draft should be fairly good.  (Bey/Nesmith)

I still like GSW adding a rook (Avdija, Edwards, WiseMan) if they also flip Wiggy for Love.

Avdija only makes sense if they flip Wiggins.  Not sure WHY, after they exchanged Russell for him.  But Love WOULD Make sense.  Would be a center on the Warriors.

I think too many fans think positional when it comes to the draft.  Certainly the young Avdija could come off the bench at the outset in GS - and play occasionally with Wiggins/Klay/Steph as well. 
That said - if they remain at 2, I agree with today's Hoopshype assessment that they go with Edwards, if not Wiseman.
Title: And a massive shout-out ...
Post by: lesterluv on November 06, 2020, 01:11:58 PM
to Lebron James in particular, but all the other NBA players and coaches who used their influence to push for expanded voting access, such as at NBA Arenas. You best believe it made a difference.

https://apnews.com/article/1137e832531afe4515a97335ebf65964 (https://apnews.com/article/1137e832531afe4515a97335ebf65964)

Shut up and dribble my fat ass!


**** Side benefit, the chance of late season NBA games taking place in front of live spectators inside those arenas just went up exponentially. Very sadly, another couple hundred thousand Americans are going to die first, not all of whom are 55 IQ racist fucks who take their Rona info from the OUTGOING prez
Title: Re: And a massive shout-out ...
Post by: carlos123 on November 06, 2020, 02:03:17 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on November 06, 2020, 01:11:58 PM
to Lebron James in particular, but all the other NBA players and coaches who used their influence to push for expanded voting access, such as at NBA Arenas. You best believe it made a difference.

https://apnews.com/article/1137e832531afe4515a97335ebf65964 (https://apnews.com/article/1137e832531afe4515a97335ebf65964)

Shut up and dribble my fat ass!


**** Side benefit, the chance of late season NBA games taking place in front of live spectators inside those arenas just went up exponentially. Very sadly, another couple hundred thousand Americans are going to die first, not all of whom are 55 IQ racist fucks who take their Rona info from the OUTGOING prez

- You best believe it, I voted at MSG.

- 55 IQ, here I gotta defend our own Chamaco Cartero. He’s at least 56!
Title: Re: And a massive shout-out ...
Post by: lesterluv on November 06, 2020, 03:04:27 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on November 06, 2020, 02:03:17 PM


- You best believe it, I voted at MSG.



Ohhhhh, I am so jealous. Didn't even think about doing that. Imagine, doing my part to cast out the malevolent fuck from the confines of that sacred space ...


**** It was still pretty pleasurable from inside the basement of my local Brooklyn library tho'
Title: Rumors DeJour
Post by: chipstern on November 06, 2020, 03:13:12 PM
Marc Berman continues to hype his jive Carmelo to NY if we get Chris Paul bullshit. 

A) We are not getting Chris Paul.  If there is a move, it would be to a contender. 

B) Melo was a very nice fit in Portland, where he filled a need and accepted his role, and where the presence of drop dead outside shooters like Lilliard and CJ McC made his game more effective. 

https://nypost.com/2020/11/06/nba-free-agency-michael-kidd-gilchrist-catches-knicks-eye/ (https://nypost.com/2020/11/06/nba-free-agency-michael-kidd-gilchrist-catches-knicks-eye/)

I believe it was our old comrade Biz who was a Kidd-Gilcrhist enthusiast. 

He is only 27, and as a Kentucky/CAA alum and defensive specialist, who has now evolved into a singular role player, makes a certain amount of sense as he would be affordable and can give us coverage at the 2-3-4. 

Has had injury issues, and his FG% last year was fucking worse than ever, but his FT percentages were hovering around 80%, in admittedly light minutes, and he was an effective role player. 

If we were to pick up Bullock's option, and let Harkless walk (think Nyets), go, Gilcrhist would represent a beefier version of Maurice, and if the price is right, another Kenticky alum of some note. 

All that goes out the window if we draft Okoro. 

Thirteen [13] daze till the daft. 

Things seem more volatile than ever. 

Title: PS
Post by: chipstern on November 06, 2020, 03:25:41 PM
For what it's worth, I went on to the BIZ MARKIE web site and forwarded a note to him through a management contact, wishing him continued improving health since he was hospitalized this summer. 

A small gesture, but WTF, right. 

Best wishes to Pharoah, should he ever reappear, that this forum might continue on into infinity, or the first whiskey bar. 
Title: WORD
Post by: chipstern on November 06, 2020, 03:33:39 PM
LeBron James: There is no @morethanavote without @staceyabrams @MichelleObama @Sifill_LDF @KristenClarkeJD YALL DID YO DAMN THING 🗳🙌🏿 #ThankYouBlackWomen✊🏾👸🏽👸🏾👸🏿 – via Twitter KingJames

Isiah Thomas: Thank you @staceyabrams for educating and inspiring all to participate and vote! – via Twitter

Trae Young: Thank you poll workers at State Farm Arena for your hard work and being a valuable player in our democracy! pic.twitter.com/WFcU1qyTGc – via Twitter TheTraeYoung

Robin Lopez: Well, thank you Black America for saving our ass – via Twitter rolopez42
Title: Re: WORD
Post by: lesterluv on November 06, 2020, 03:59:20 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 06, 2020, 03:33:39 PM

Robin Lopez: Well, thank you Black America for saving our ass – via Twitter rolopez42

Indeed!
Title: Re: Despite the Forum's Chief AssClown's Worries....
Post by: facilitatorn on November 06, 2020, 05:38:54 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on November 06, 2020, 09:55:20 AM
about homeless and indigent types not getting correct coronavirus protection information, it appears those who take their Rona info from Potus get the disease the most:

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/05/counties-with-worst-virus-surges-overwhelmingly-voted-for-trump.html (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/05/counties-with-worst-virus-surges-overwhelmingly-voted-for-trump.html)

Posted something about that in the sad administration forum. Are republicans factoring this in when they size up their 2022 chances?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 06, 2020, 05:46:34 PM
Mo Harkless is a prototypical Thibs player. He could do really well here if he comes back.
Title: Re: Despite the Forum's Chief AssClown's Worries....
Post by: lesterluv on November 06, 2020, 11:26:31 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 06, 2020, 05:38:54 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on November 06, 2020, 09:55:20 AM
about homeless and indigent types not getting correct coronavirus protection information, it appears those who take their Rona info from Potus get the disease the most:

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/05/counties-with-worst-virus-surges-overwhelmingly-voted-for-trump.html (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/05/counties-with-worst-virus-surges-overwhelmingly-voted-for-trump.html)

Posted something about that in the sad administration forum. Are republicans factoring this in when they size up their 2022 chances?

Should be a nice clean extra one percent they'll have to find replacements for....


(Today's number, a nice clean new American and World record of 125,000. I'll be rooting for most of 'em to recover. Mark Meadows, lol, not so much...)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 07, 2020, 02:26:11 PM
BOOYAH TOOOOOYAH

**** Bye bye ya malevolent little fat fuck
Title: Philly Puts JOE Over The Top
Post by: chipstern on November 07, 2020, 04:08:54 PM
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/allaboutjazz/media/large/7/b/8/282655a8a8fc7c772e76f8063a5d6.jpg)

Philly Joe

(https://i.pinimg.com/236x/1c/53/52/1c5352cb540c6e8ddf697630e3b04931--joe-biden-vice-president.jpg)

PopPop Joe

Title: One More Time
Post by: chipstern on November 07, 2020, 04:12:54 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ENK97sFU0AA6e3i.jpg)
Title: Apprentice
Post by: carlos123 on November 07, 2020, 06:52:43 PM
(https://media.tenor.com/images/5dbdd0e6d5ce3be02f53c9c2bbb71274/tenor.gif)

AND

(https://specials-images.forbesimg.com/imageserve/5d3a21c2090f4300070d9db2/960x0.jpg?fit=scale)
Title: From Bron
Post by: carlos123 on November 07, 2020, 06:58:21 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EmPEKaPU0AAmlF5?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: My Hood
Post by: lesterluv on November 07, 2020, 08:32:06 PM
been like this all day...still going

https://twitter.com/conrad/status/1325219556936310785 (https://twitter.com/conrad/status/1325219556936310785)

don't stop, won't stop!
Title: SERENITY [John Coltrane]
Post by: chipstern on November 07, 2020, 09:28:09 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9j0JAKnKTY4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9j0JAKnKTY4)

(https://www.culturematters.org.uk/media/k2/items/cache/c0a900a8f1065494ea739555ce96d6a6_XL.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 07, 2020, 10:09:13 PM
Serenity indeed. Honestly, you couldn't even calculate the weight of the rancid orange cloud hanging over everything until it was lifted.... years later it will be hard to imagine it ever existed.

I mean this shit...lol, I can't stop looking and laughing:

(https://images.foxtv.com/static.foxla.com/www.foxla.com/content/uploads/2020/11/932/524/trump-tweet.jpg?ve=1&tl=1)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 07, 2020, 10:35:06 PM
Or how could it be really real that it all ends for Trump with Rudy G. in a landscaping firm parking lot, across from Fantasy Adult Books and a crematorium: Has me crying over and over again. I can't take it. I really can't.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/11/four-seasons-total-landscaping-trump-team-news-conference.html?fbclid=IwAR2vGf_mxnD_gZyE7Z-hhdQp7PJ6c9YV5PN0J22XP8TqdXj1RF2dDBNO0mU (https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/11/four-seasons-total-landscaping-trump-team-news-conference.html?fbclid=IwAR2vGf_mxnD_gZyE7Z-hhdQp7PJ6c9YV5PN0J22XP8TqdXj1RF2dDBNO0mU)

https://twitter.com/VaushV/status/1325156185595543560
 (https://twitter.com/VaushV/status/1325156185595543560)
https://twitter.com/FSPhiladelphia/status/1325102014964109312
 (https://twitter.com/FSPhiladelphia/status/1325102014964109312)
https://twitter.com/JessicaValenti/status/1325221539558682630 (https://twitter.com/JessicaValenti/status/1325221539558682630)

Title: Re: My Hood
Post by: josh on November 07, 2020, 11:52:37 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on November 07, 2020, 08:32:06 PM
been like this all day...still going

https://twitter.com/conrad/status/1325219556936310785 (https://twitter.com/conrad/status/1325219556936310785)

don't stop, won't stop!

That Giuliani did a press conference at the Four Seasons Total Landscaping Company, not the hotel, is just hilarious! I didn't believe it, at first.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EmPCm0CXEAEn7pN?format=jpg&name=large)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 08, 2020, 03:08:46 AM
Geez, did that really happen?!?

How are they explaining the obviously weird/wrong choice of location?

Wasn't that an old Simpsons joke.
Marge kicks Homer out of the house.

Homer meets up with Lisa who asks where he's staying.
Homer: "You know the Four Seasons?  Well, I'm experiencing them firsthand sleeping in the park."
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 08, 2020, 04:43:02 AM
Trump tweeted it was happening at the four seasons in Philly. The hotel politely declined to host their fiasco. The highly compensated professionals on team Trump hit the Philly phone book and that what they came up with. That or it’s the second result on google when you search Philadelphia four seasons.

That, despite 4 years of that caliber leadership, we’re not doing much much worse than we are speaks to our perverse good luck and the staggering resiliency of the United States.
Title: four seasons total landscaping
Post by: lesterluv on November 08, 2020, 09:34:25 AM
It really happened. It is finally safe to say there will be no lower low. The twitter on this is the funniest stream I have ever read in my life.


After the President’s press conference at Four Seasons Total Landscaping there will be an emergency cabinet meeting at the Cinnabon at King of Prussia Mall, the one near the massage chairs, not the other one.


Check the Trump supporters in attendance: https://twitter.com/_RichardHall/status/1325125113256189953 (https://twitter.com/_RichardHall/status/1325125113256189953)
Pretty sure kiid is the one without any pants.



OT: Here's Mike Breen making the call in Georgia
https://twitter.com/jga41agher/status/1324666456928219137 (https://twitter.com/jga41agher/status/1324666456928219137)
Title: And you best believe....
Post by: lesterluv on November 08, 2020, 10:02:59 AM
restoring a tradition.....Lebron James and his Lakers WILL be traveling to the White House to celebrate their title.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 08, 2020, 10:15:38 AM
LeBron did a nice job for Biden.  Should be a nice - and deserved day - for the superstar.  Hope Joe is well enough to be there.
Title: Re: My Hood
Post by: chipstern on November 08, 2020, 11:42:58 AM
Quote from: josh on November 07, 2020, 11:52:37 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on November 07, 2020, 08:32:06 PM
been like this all day...still going

https://twitter.com/conrad/status/1325219556936310785 (https://twitter.com/conrad/status/1325219556936310785)

don't stop, won't stop!

That Giuliani did a press conference at the Four Seasons Total Landscaping Company, not the hotel, is just hilarious! I didn't believe it, at first.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EmPCm0CXEAEn7pN?format=jpg&name=large)

JOSH....

He
Was
Just
Tucking
In
His
Shirt
Title: Number Crunching
Post by: chipstern on November 08, 2020, 11:45:17 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on November 07, 2020, 10:09:13 PM
Serenity indeed. Honestly, you couldn't even calculate the weight of the rancid orange cloud hanging over everything until it was lifted.... years later it will be hard to imagine it ever existed.

I mean this shit...lol, I can't stop looking and laughing:

(https://images.foxtv.com/static.foxla.com/www.foxla.com/content/uploads/2020/11/932/524/trump-tweet.jpg?ve=1&tl=1)

He lost the electoral college vote.

And as for the popular vote?

BIDEN UP by 4,000,000
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 08, 2020, 11:57:57 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 08, 2020, 10:15:38 AM
LeBron did a nice job for Biden.  Should be a nice - and deserved day - for the superstar.  Hope Joe is well enough to be there.

Thanks for the kind thoughts, Kiid.

We can feel the warmth.

As for your Hero Nero, yes, the very picture of health.

(https://images.dailykos.com/images/424623/story_image/Donald-Trump-looks-sick-678x381.jpg?1500087276)

Heh

What's the over under on WhackDonald making it to next summer? 
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Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 08, 2020, 08:20:35 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 08, 2020, 11:57:57 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 08, 2020, 10:15:38 AM
LeBron did a nice job for Biden.  Should be a nice - and deserved day - for the superstar.  Hope Joe is well enough to be there.

Thanks for the kind thoughts, Kiid.

We can feel the warmth.

As for your Hero Nero, yes, the very picture of health.

(https://images.dailykos.com/images/424623/story_image/Donald-Trump-looks-sick-678x381.jpg?1500087276)

Heh

What's the over under on WhackDonald making it to next summer?

He’ll definitely let his lawyers wheel him into court shaking under a blanket as part of his legal defense.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 08, 2020, 09:37:39 PM
http://hoopshype.com/lists/nba-mock-draft-anthony-edwards-lamelo-ball-james-wiseman-range/ (http://hoopshype.com/lists/nba-mock-draft-anthony-edwards-lamelo-ball-james-wiseman-range/)

I like this mock for us. Okongwu, Flynn, and Cassius Stanley in the 2nd round. I’d take Xavier Tillman over Stanley since Tillman was still on the board. That would make it a home run.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 08, 2020, 10:18:26 PM
NESMITH, CAREY, QUICKLEY
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 08, 2020, 10:20:51 PM
 Quickley at 27 would be awesome, but he’ll likely be gone by then. I think he’s in a tier w Kira Lewis.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 09, 2020, 02:18:37 AM
Here’s one Kiid will like,

Payton, Iggy, and the second pick from Dallas or our current 2nd rounder for Lonzo Ball.

Which team says no?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 09, 2020, 06:35:47 AM
Probably the team getting junk.

Trading Lonzo for Elf is remarkably silly.  The only reason they might ditch Ball is because he doesn't space the floor for Zion, so they're dealing him for a worse 3-point shooting PG, especially an older one.

Word is PELs want to move JRue who could bring a solid return.

And build with their young core of Lonzo - Ingram & Zionista.
Along with Jax Hayes & NA Walker.
They can likely add a shooter such as Nesmith or Bey with their #13 pick.
(looks to me like after 13 there is a drop off -- not to say there won't be some successes below that, but looks like a tier cutoff point)

So with all that yute, add in whatever return for Jrue -- hopefully a player and a pick.  Then fill in the roster with some vets.  For now they have Favors.  Hart is useful.  Find some more shooters and ball movers to fit around Zion's power game.

I'm not that high on their players and the mix, but the blueprint is strong, and they can figure out chemistry and team play over the next few years.  Caveat: I haven't seen Zion much and Ingram improved.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 09, 2020, 12:19:27 PM
Word is PELs want to move JRue who could bring a solid return.


Because Ball is a star and there is no positive in holding his minutes down.

New O has it tough in the West - but are an emerging giant.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 09, 2020, 12:22:05 PM
Do the Knicks take Jrue and move down to 13, where mock says they would still be able to get Nesmith or Smith?

Interesting.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 09, 2020, 12:57:53 PM
Jrue simply doesn't fit the NOPE timeframe.
But can bring a solid return from a playoff team.

I don't see how the Knix get involved.
What significant assets would we be giving them?
It's not like they want Randle back.

JRue had success playing off the ball as a secondary ballhandler.
Ball played 32 mpg last year with JRue out there a lot.
Don't think there was minute or fit issue, just JRue is oldish and has an injury history.  Also, for a solid two-way player he doesn't seem to have much impact on winning.  I think it's that he doesn't offer enough late-game threat.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 09, 2020, 01:01:10 PM
The #8 pick, combined with spare parts that are not named Barrett or Robinson.

That would be fair

We have cap space so do not need to match to his 23 mil salary

The forum has loved J-Rue for years - dont back off that now.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 09, 2020, 01:08:46 PM
I'd be happy getting JRue and dropping 5 slots.
I just don't see it as realistic at all.

What scraps would we give them?
NO couldn't find a better deal?
Who do they even want to move up for?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 09, 2020, 01:13:33 PM
NO couldn't find a better deal?


It's obvious they'll try.

I think they could use a Knox or a Ntlikina,  Certainly a Brazdekis.

I honestly dont know if Pelicans prefer a 1 for 1 player deal - with no picks involved - to slot in as a starter for 20-21.  Or if that would be available

I will turn it around on you - what are other teams offering?  The contenders have mostly lower level picks.

As for what NO is moving up to 8 for?  The choice of taking the players that go 8-12, simply.  You have this morning the 8 being Okongwu.  But Vassell is also there in that mock.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 09, 2020, 01:43:55 PM
I'd be happy getting JRue and dropping 5 slots.


Good use of 50 mil?

I am not so sure.

This is the type deal you do if other avenues flame out.  But by then Jrue could be gone somewhere else.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 09, 2020, 01:51:15 PM
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/jrue-holiday-trade-rumors-a-look-at-every-possible-destination-for-pelicans-veteran-star-guard/

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2867482-trade-packages-and-landing-spots-for-pelicans-star-guard-jrue-holiday

https://clipperholics.com/2020/11/05/la-clippers-3-possible-trade-routes-get-jrue-holiday/
LAC would be a good landing spot.

Bledsoe and DiVincenzo is interesting.

I haven't read through too much of that yet.
Title: Jrue? I'm Chanting For Stacy Abrams & Our Brothers And Sisters In Georgia
Post by: chipstern on November 09, 2020, 02:21:18 PM
DESPERATE MAN BLUES

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhgqCUDMulo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhgqCUDMulo)

John Fahey

(https://boundarystones.weta.org/boundarystones/sites/blogs.weta.org.boundarystones/files/styles/alignnone/public/fahey_31.JPG?itok=BHVyPNwt)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 09, 2020, 02:32:32 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 09, 2020, 01:51:15 PM
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/jrue-holiday-trade-rumors-a-look-at-every-possible-destination-for-pelicans-veteran-star-guard/

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2867482-trade-packages-and-landing-spots-for-pelicans-star-guard-jrue-holiday

https://clipperholics.com/2020/11/05/la-clippers-3-possible-trade-routes-get-jrue-holiday/
LAC would be a good landing spot.

Bledsoe and DiVincenzo is interesting.

I haven't read through too much of that yet.

Funny

How are the Warriors better losing Wiggins and the #2?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 09, 2020, 02:39:56 PM
Lakers make the most sense in that first article.  Kuzma, Caruso and a very late #1
Title: Jrue? Really?
Post by: chipstern on November 09, 2020, 02:55:32 PM
Jrue?

If I were the Lakers I'd betargetting Chris Paul.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 09, 2020, 02:58:58 PM
The #8 pick, combined with spare parts that are not named Barrett or Robinson.

That would be fair

We have cap space so do not need to match to his 23 mil salary

The forum has loved J-Rue for years - dont back off that now.

PLEASE.

Loved Jrue in 2009 for crying out loud. 

Now if we could get Jeff Teague for the MCE?

Title: Re: Jrue? Really?
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 09, 2020, 03:32:38 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 09, 2020, 02:55:32 PM
Jrue?

If I were the Lakers I'd betargetting Chris Paul.

Cant afford him
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 09, 2020, 03:45:42 PM
In other words, good luck in New York, CP3!




https://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2020/11/2/21546803/lakers-trade-rumors-chris-paul-knicks-film-school-report-newsletter-thunder
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 10, 2020, 12:50:16 PM
Size be damned -

I like this kid

https://www.nbadraft.net/situational-analysis-tyrell-terry/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on November 10, 2020, 02:41:34 PM
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/11/10/sports/celtics-legend-tom-heinsohn-champion-player-coach-dies-86/?p1=BGHeader_BreakingBar_Headline (https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/11/10/sports/celtics-legend-tom-heinsohn-champion-player-coach-dies-86/?p1=BGHeader_BreakingBar_Headline)

Tom Heinsohn, the Celtics’ accomplished and animated renaissance man who was involved in all 17 of the franchise’s National Basketball Association titles as a player, coach, and commentator, has died, according to multiple people affiliated with the NBA. He was 86.

This fucking year
He was pure Celtic.

player-coach and outrageous voice of partisan Celtic pride.

I'm tearing up on this one.

RIP and give em all Tommy
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 10, 2020, 03:18:12 PM
R.I.P. He was a big part of a great tradition and always will be.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 10, 2020, 06:24:54 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on November 10, 2020, 02:41:34 PM
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/11/10/sports/celtics-legend-tom-heinsohn-champion-player-coach-dies-86/?p1=BGHeader_BreakingBar_Headline (https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/11/10/sports/celtics-legend-tom-heinsohn-champion-player-coach-dies-86/?p1=BGHeader_BreakingBar_Headline)

Tom Heinsohn, the Celtics’ accomplished and animated renaissance man who was involved in all 17 of the franchise’s National Basketball Association titles as a player, coach, and commentator, has died, according to multiple people affiliated with the NBA. He was 86.

This fucking year
He was pure Celtic.

player-coach and outrageous voice of partisan Celtic pride.

I'm tearing up on this one.

RIP and give em all Tommy

A great player. 

(https://knickerblogger.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/1105639399_9928.jpg)

An an iconic Celtic in rooting on the team, as both a coach and a broadcaster.

(https://www.orlandosentinel.com/resizer/iB7pqdCa4UvEwnc8yRdJZkJM8Jo=/415x419/top/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/tronc/BHEUO3L4WJ4PL5Z3KIYB5LBAHQ.aspx)

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 10, 2020, 07:48:41 PM
Good player.  Good coach.  Love for the game never did wane.

What a character - from the early days of my hoopdom.

Be with the other legends, Tommy Boy.  Heaven is a tip in, not a tough 12 foot hook
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 10, 2020, 08:15:10 PM
O'Connor mock chock full of notes

https://nbadraft.theringer.com/#mock
Title: Chamaco?
Post by: carlos123 on November 10, 2020, 09:16:47 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 10, 2020, 07:48:41 PM
What a character - from the early days of my hoopdom.


Chamaco, that makes you an old man.

Maybe I should call you Abuelo instead? Kam, whadda you say, Chamaco or Abuelo? Les? Fac? ...?

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/98/9c/53/989c53a87eae83313dcd3103ddec83d8.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 11, 2020, 04:53:53 AM
I prefer not to call him at all.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 11, 2020, 08:05:04 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 10, 2020, 08:15:10 PM
O'Connor mock chock full of notes
https://nbadraft.theringer.com/#mock

Good info.
It's interesting how this draft seems to have a lot of strong player comps.
Toppin = Amare
Edwards = Oladipo
Wiseman = Whiteside
Okongwu = Adebayo
Avdija = other tall white guys who can shoot and pass
LaMelo Ball = Lonzo Ball

Of course that's just a basic help, cause it's hard to measure other factors motivation, mentality, development rate, team fit etc.  But the comps are useful and fun.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 11, 2020, 08:29:32 AM
O'Connor is very high on Killer Hayes (his overall top prospect) and Kira Lewis (#10 pick).

He has Knix tapping Hayes.
Gad, Hayes would be a real gamble for NYK.
Another super young guy with a scant track record.
Hayes looked good last year playing against Germans, but had looked much more average in the better French league (at a mere 18).  That's all you have to go on.
Knox and Franc haven't exactly panned out, so can you really gamble on 19 year old int'l Hayes?

Knix desperately need a PG, but TyH and Vassell address our shooting woes and seem like much safer picks.  While Haliburton can man some Point, or be a complementary playmaker.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 11, 2020, 08:59:33 AM
I am locked in now on dealing up.

Figuring we cant get Edwards - but he'd do for me if Leon goes that way.  My 3 main targets are Ball, Avdija and Toppin.

Nesmith or Smith if we stay at 8, though Vassell or Haliburton - again - if Rose feels strongly - sure.

Carey likely wont be there at 27 but many mocks say he will

Easy pick if a big wasnt selected with our first choice.  Carey will be relentless in this league.

OConnor is the first one I have seen to have Toppin out of the top ten - or even there when we select.

Toppin, with Cole Anthony at 8/27?  Don't tease me.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 11, 2020, 09:23:56 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 11, 2020, 08:59:33 AM
I am locked in now on dealing up.

Let's hear a proposal then.
Who you giving up to get get to what slot?

I could see trying to move up for Ball, but he might go #1 and Knix don't have many assets to offer (especially if Mitch and RJB are off the table).

I figure we might be able to get the #2 pick if we kicked in Mitch.  Nobody here was interested (and I'd only do it if NYK were convinced Ball/Edwards were future all-stars).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 11, 2020, 10:44:21 AM
I certainly take on the Wiggins salary to move to 2 though I don't believe they are looking to divest of Andrew.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 11, 2020, 10:47:34 AM
Forget Minnesota and Charlotte.  Bulls unlikely but I am giving them Knox/Frank if they like.
I have to look more closely at 5 through 7.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 11, 2020, 12:32:59 PM
ESPn has a good mock draft up with fancy graphics and some breakdown
(I wish the vid for each player was more than part of one play).
https://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/29861481/nba-draft-2020-perfect-picks-every-team-first-round

They have 2. WiseMan 3. Okongwu 4. Edwards 5. Halliburton 6. Avdija 7. Toppin and
8. Killian Hayes which seems to be a trend.
Vassal down at 11.
Knix taking Desmond Bane a 6'6" shooter at 27.

I'd like to get Ty Halibut/Vassell at 8 and a PG such as Kira, Malachi at 27; or Cassius Winston in the 2nd round.
Would hugely improve our G play.  Add shooting and speed.  Fit well with RJB and Mitch.
Hayes really makes me nervous. 
Title: Chamaco Abuelo?
Post by: carlos123 on November 11, 2020, 06:13:41 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 11, 2020, 04:53:53 AM
I prefer not to call him at all.

Ok, Fac don't call him, and the others don't have an opinion, so he remains Chamaco, but with a new look more reflective of our Chamaco's age.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3eIQ7VMZa_QEngPkPFFzBi-p9ZJ-c1LYL-6Z8pZtjKkU0WgxIqZDZcyU7gwqlZjClwEhbNbfjb6qdN-OY27w7BYQLOmlzl6yMS4F7f7roDH7t9iJEmV2Ff32_08F9yvxderzsSNOVLUyEx7oYwPcgoI=w368-h570-no?authuser=0)

For those of you who may not know the story of the $70,000...

Trump Took $70,000 in Tax Deductions
for Hair Care. Experts Say That’s Illegal.

It’s a small but telling detail in The Times’s exposé on the president’s taxes.

(https://static01.nyt.com/images/2020/10/02/business/02Stewart-TrumpHair-sub/merlin_145798731_7da21747-0616-47b7-a809-f142a1b01c06-jumbo.jpg?quality=90&auto=webp)
Courts have ruled that hairstyling is a personal expense that cannot be deducted.

By James B. Stewart
Oct. 6, 2020

There were many bombshells in The New York Times’s exposé last week about President Trump’s taxes. He has paid basically zero federal income tax for years. His much-ballyhooed businesses are on the ropes. And that was just the headline.

But it was a juicy and seemingly less significant matter that jumped out at me: Mr. Trump spent more than $70,000 on hairstyling during several years of his run on “The Apprentice,” his reality-TV show.

That, of course, is quite a lot for any one person to spend on having his hair cut, blow-dried or colored. But what is really remarkable about the revelation is that Mr. Trump’s production company deducted his hairstyling expenses from its taxable income, reducing its tax bill.

Tax experts told me that deducting what is ordinarily considered a personal expense is prohibited under almost any circumstances. And they said such a deduction could potentially constitute criminal tax fraud if the cost of the hairstyling was reimbursed by someone else.
Title: Conflicting stories
Post by: Kam on November 11, 2020, 07:10:50 PM
The NBA today announced some teams will be allowed to have fans in attendance at games.

The Knicks closed their Tarrytown training facility Tuesday after three employees tested positive for COVID-19.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 11, 2020, 09:10:52 PM
I think they are planning to use boxes at reduced capacity, so they can be vented separately.

Outbreaks on teams can certainly mess up the schedule. They have cues from other leagues, but no guarantee of smooth sailing.

We shall see.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 11, 2020, 09:22:24 PM
So next week, things go down:

Likely:
MON Nov 16, Trades will be a go
WED Nov 18 - DRAFT
FRI   Nov 20 Free Agency
SUB  Nov 22 FA signings
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 11, 2020, 09:50:59 PM
Interesting -

#8 pick to Minnesota

for

Jarret Culver and the #17
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 11, 2020, 10:04:09 PM
Do we want Danny Green for one year, 15.4 mil - or longer?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 11, 2020, 10:04:25 PM
Well, Minny is trying to trade Culver & #17 for ATL's #6.
Guess they could try for #8 if that fails.
#17 isn't that sexy, but not too bad.
#8 is fairly low to give up last year's #6 pick and a #17.

Culver was a very poor shooter as a rook.
And in a historically bad FT shooting draft, Culver was the worst of that class with a 46% FT.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 11, 2020, 10:45:35 PM
8 & 37 for Culver, 17, & 33.

I’d be looking for Kira, RJ Hampton, or Terry at 17 unless Saddiq, Williams, or Precious drops. Might reach for Bolmaro. Hope for Tyler Bey at 27. Use 33 on a big body, the best left.

You also have to fix Culver’s offense, so maybe pass.
Title: Yikes Cubed
Post by: bodiddley on November 12, 2020, 04:23:05 AM
Culver & RJB as your starting wings?
Two guys who can't shoot and don't space ...
And then with Mitch and Randle, we'd be guaranteed to have the worst shooting starting 5 in the NBofA.

And you downgrade your draft pick 9 spots to achieve that?
YIKES!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 12, 2020, 10:18:56 AM
Culver & RJB as your starting wings?
Two guys who can't shoot and don't space

If thats what you envision.....

but I wouldnt apply to Leon Rose for a front office position if I were you
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 12, 2020, 10:21:12 AM
So you're dropping 9 slots to the lower middle of the draft in order to get a backup SG who can't shoot.  Brilliant.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 12, 2020, 10:33:01 AM
A week old but chock full of stuff

Depending on whether Minnesota or Golden State covets a specific prospect, the next logical step would be trading down. That has placed the focus upon the Charlotte Hornets, sitting at No. 3 with an obvious need for a big man.

The Hornets have heard speculation Golden State is leaning toward James Wiseman at No. 2. That would appear to put Minnesota in position to squeeze Charlotte for a bounty -- something like No. 3, Miles Bridges, and at least one lightly protected future first-round pick to move up to No. 1. In drafts with a no-brainer top pick, the value gap between No. 1 and No. 3 is enormous.

This is not that sort of draft. I am not quite convinced Charlotte's appetite for Wiseman is so strong as to meet the kind of price Minnesota (or Golden State) might demand. The Hornets might be fine settling for Onyeka Okongwu. They could also trade for a veteran big -- a placeholder like Al Horford, or someone (Myles Turner?) who better fits their timeline


https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/30221719/giannis-antetokounmpo-future-all-star-trades-nba-draft-everything-else-watch-offseason
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 12, 2020, 10:34:53 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 12, 2020, 10:21:12 AM
So you're dropping 9 slots to the lower middle of the draft in order to get a backup SG who can't shoot.  Brilliant.

I think that depends on how much you like your 8 - and how much you like Culver as a building block
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 12, 2020, 10:50:31 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 12, 2020, 10:34:53 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 12, 2020, 10:21:12 AM
So you're dropping 9 slots to the lower middle of the draft in order to get a backup SG who can't shoot.  Brilliant.

I think that depends on how much you like your 8 - and how much you like Culver as a building block

If Culver doesn't project as a starter, it's a very bad idea.
It'd be grossly negligent to come out of this draft with 3 bench players (Culver, #17 & 27).

There's a reason Minny is considering to give up on Culver -- an SG who can't shoot -- after one year.

Simply, the Knix need to draft a starter at #8.
Preferably a shooter.  TyH, Vassal, Hayes.

The lowest I would trade down to would be 13, where you can still likely get a Saddiq Bey or Nesmith, if NYK was big on one or both of them.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 12, 2020, 10:53:33 AM
I have already stated I dont see the #8 pick as necessarily being a starter
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 12, 2020, 11:07:44 AM
There's a reason Minny is considering to give up on Culver -- an SG who can't shoot -- after one year.


The one ASSET they need to give up to get the "star" they need to go with Kat and Russell

I think if they are doing it for just the 8 they might ask for more.  Fac had US asking for a bit more

Pretty even deal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 12, 2020, 12:04:27 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 12, 2020, 10:53:33 AM
I have already stated I dont see the #8 pick as necessarily being a starter

If the Knix don't draft a starter, then it's a failed draft and we're doomed.

Doesn't have to be a Y1 starter, but a legit NBA 7-10 year starter.
Can't keep drafting Knoxes and Francs every year.
They'll be starters available at #8 -- Knix need to identify them.
Don't worry about the consensus board, take a guy who projects out as a quality starter with a significant floor.

Hopefully someone can light a spark under Knox's butt.
More energy, stronger drives, quicker decisions, hustle, boards, 3's, use your size, etc.
Clyde often complains when a guy is thinking on the court, well I want to see Knox thinking on every play.  Later he react and play.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 12, 2020, 03:39:54 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 12, 2020, 12:04:27 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 12, 2020, 10:53:33 AM
I have already stated I dont see the #8 pick as necessarily being a starter

If the Knix don't draft a starter, then it's a failed draft and we're doomed.

Doesn't have to be a Y1 starter, but a legit NBA 7-10 year starter.
Can't keep drafting Knoxes and Francs every year.
They'll be starters available at #8 -- Knix need to identify them.
Don't worry about the consensus board, take a guy who projects out as a quality starter with a significant floor.

Hopefully someone can light a spark under Knox's butt.
More energy, stronger drives, quicker decisions, hustle, boards, 3's, use your size, etc.
Clyde often complains when a guy is thinking on the court, well I want to see Knox thinking on every play.  Later he react and play.

I think that is a snide and willful misrepresentation of Knox. 

Every wonder why his name pops up in every rumored trade? 

DUH

Knicks completely took him out of rhythm with the Morris experiment.  Do not conflate confusion with a lack of focus or purpose. 

By season's end, with some more steady minutes, he was blocking shots, going hard to the hoop, hitting shots in the midrange.

PS: A lot of mocks have HALIBURTON falling to us at 8.  One can only hope that some other players moving up the board, or sundry trades, change the priorities of those going before us.  The Bulls would love Ball, Detroit is in the market for a PG, but someprojections are boosting Patrick Williams and Okoro.  Leave us pray.  HALIBURTON can shoot, create, and defend.  Please, Lord, and Massa Rose, make it so. 

PPS: There is no way on God's Green Earth that Kira Lewis lasts until #27.  If Haliburton is gone, and Okoro, too, I would not be surprised to see the Knicks reach for Lewis at #8, even if Vassell is still on the board.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on November 12, 2020, 04:37:27 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 12, 2020, 03:39:54 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 12, 2020, 12:04:27 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 12, 2020, 10:53:33 AM
I have already stated I dont see the #8 pick as necessarily being a starter

If the Knix don't draft a starter, then it's a failed draft and we're doomed.

Doesn't have to be a Y1 starter, but a legit NBA 7-10 year starter.
Can't keep drafting Knoxes and Francs every year.
They'll be starters available at #8 -- Knix need to identify them.
Don't worry about the consensus board, take a guy who projects out as a quality starter with a significant floor.

Hopefully someone can light a spark under Knox's butt.
More energy, stronger drives, quicker decisions, hustle, boards, 3's, use your size, etc.
Clyde often complains when a guy is thinking on the court, well I want to see Knox thinking on every play.  Later he react and play.

I think that is a snide and willful misrepresentation of Knox. 

Every wonder why his name pops up in every rumored trade? 

DUH

Knicks completely took him out of rhythm with the Morris experiment.  Do not conflate confusion with a lack of focus or purpose. 

By season's end, with some more steady minutes, he was blocking shots, going hard to the hoop, hitting shots in the midrange.

PS: A lot of mocks have HALIBURTON falling to us at 8.  One can only hope that some other players moving up the board, or sundry trades, change the priorities of those going before us.  The Bulls would love Ball, Detroit is in the market for a PG, but someprojections are boosting Patrick Williams and Okoro.  Leave us pray.  HALIBURTON can shoot, create, and defend.  Please, Lord, and Massa Rose, make it so. 

PPS: There is no way on God's Green Earth that Kira Lewis lasts until #27.  If Haliburton is gone, and Okoro, too, I would not be surprised to see the Knicks reach for Lewis at #8, even if Vassell is still on the board.

https://fb.watch/v/bYKU9ny0R/ (https://fb.watch/v/bYKU9ny0R/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 12, 2020, 04:40:32 PM
"Doesn't have to be a year 1 starter"

So, we agree.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 12, 2020, 05:57:10 PM
An NBA Draft "Get to Know" tonight at 7  NBATV.  Features Haliburton, Nesmith, Carey and a few others.

Draft Pick Em special preceeds, at 630.
Title: Culver
Post by: chipstern on November 12, 2020, 06:44:35 PM
Trading the #8 pick for Culver would be tantamount to fucking medical malpractice.  Clearly some people are abusing their PAX3 vaporizer. 

The #8 pick will yield something useful going forward. 

We should have a shot at some PGs [Haliburton, Hayes, Lewis] and some wings [Okoro, Williams, Vassell]

No need to wax needy or greedy.  Or to invest in a marginal redundancy.  We are committed to RJ.  What am I missing.  This would not be a deal, but a heist for Minny.  Are they offering us the #1 pick?  DUH. 

I mean, BoD's take does not even vaguely depict what a dumpster fire season this lottery pick had. 

My God, Barrett's flaws and struggles pale by comparision.  Culver makes RJ look like the second coming of John Havlichek. 

63 games

23.9   minutes 

66-221 from trey [.299%]

54-117 from FT [.462]

Hey, if he had significant upside, why would Minny be shopping him? 

We could do a lot better with some affordable free agents if we are a looking for a rotation guard. 

Avery Bradley will turn 30 at the end of the month.  Whiie only 6'3" he is a very capable shooter and defender, a solid facilitator.  An .833% FT shooter last year for the Lakers.  And a .363% 3-point shooter.  We have yet to make up our mind on Reggie Bullock, and if God forbid we draft Haliburton, Hayes or Lewis, we have decisions to make on Frank and Dennis.  Are they rotation pieces or trade candy?  So I'm not sure if Bradley is even on our radar.  But seriously, FUCK CULVER. 

Or our #27 and #38 picks. 


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 12, 2020, 07:22:10 PM
Why is Minnesota shopping Culver?

You jest, right?

They want two of the top ten picks to add to their pretty good start of a core.

They aren't selling him cheap, nor should they.

17 to 6 or to 8 indeed is quite the leap.  Thus the need to offer up a valuable chip.

Culver moves the ball fairly well - but I can understand - since you have done it before - why you would bury a guy (only of course if he isn't a Knick) off his age 20 season.

Heh
Title: Kiid....Court JESTER
Post by: chipstern on November 12, 2020, 09:02:56 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 12, 2020, 07:22:10 PM
Why is Minnesota shopping Culver?

You jest, right?

They want two of the top ten picks to add to their pretty good start of a core.

They aren't selling him cheap, nor should they.

17 to 6 or to 8 indeed is quite the leap.  Thus the need to offer up a valuable chip.

Culver moves the ball fairly well - but I can understand - since you have done it before - why you would bury a guy (only of course if he isn't a Knick) off his age 20 season.

Heh

Only in your parallel Trumpian universe of alternate facts, would a fire sale relic such as Culver be considered a valuable asset we should consider accepting as the sweetner for flipping the #8 pick for the #17 pick.   

I'm not burying the kid.  Nor am I accepting the notion that he represents any sort of 'asset' nor that we should invest in an expensive redundancy seeing as how we have this RJ Barrett fellow at the 2-spot, and while he struggled, he certainly had a much better season.   

The Minnesota Timberwolves selected Jarrett Culver with the No. 6 pick of the 2019 NBA draft. Minnesota having acquired this pick in a trade with the Phoenix Suns, sending the No. 11 pick and forward Dario Saric to Phoenix in return.

Phoenix drafted Cameron Johnson, a 6'8" forward with Minny's #11 pick, who averaged 8.8 ppg, 3.3 baords and 1.2 assists, while shooting .390% from trey and .807 from the charity stripe.  Saric, a 6'10" stretch 4, averaged 10.7, 6.2 and 1.9 while draining treys at a .357% clip and FTs at .844.

DUH. Quite the fucking haul.

In the parlance of criminal justice, Phoenix is guilty of RAPE IN THE FIRST DEGREE. 

Minny has NOTHING on their roster that we want, save for their untouchables, KAT and DAR. 

So why exactly are you engaging in this specious argument.  Culver is NOT A Valuable Asset. Not to the Knicks, anyway.  And while he might indeed have some value moving foward, even in his sophomore year at Texas Tech, he only shot .304 from trey, and while a 70% FT shooter, his efficiency plummeted as a pro rookie...and hey, RJ's collegieate stats were not dramatically better, but he is our guy, so in so far as the Wolves are concerned, and your flippant assertion that he is a valuable asset, in FUCKING FACT, as far as rating the #8 pick, he is the second fucking coming of Johnny Flynn and a fire sale waiting to happen.  Do you feel me?

You're not an idiot, and we'll give you the benfit of the doubt as far as being a congentially contentious asshole, so the only remaining answer is....

(https://media2.giphy.com/media/l2JhNOqEO62ulIDrG/giphy.gif)

YOU'RE A FUNNY GUY.

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcQWtjbpIQsLy4MZ5Vihv_T3asMXxvxgBnKnzA&usqp=CAU)





Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 12, 2020, 09:10:28 PM
Knicks take OKORO

Over Okongwu, Lewis, Hayes, Vassell, Bey, Achiuwa (thats the rest of the lottery)

Nesmith and Smith - my 2 guys - go 15 and 17.  Terry 21.  Anthony 23.

Knicks add Nico Mannion at 27
Title: Chamaco, there you go again...
Post by: carlos123 on November 12, 2020, 09:10:59 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 12, 2020, 07:22:10 PM
Why is Minnesota shopping Culver?

You jest, right?

They want two of the top ten picks to add to their pretty good start of a core.

They aren't selling him cheap, nor should they.

17 to 6 or to 8 indeed is quite the leap.  Thus the need to offer up a valuable chip.

Culver moves the ball fairly well - but I can understand - since you have done it before - why you would bury a guy (only of course if he isn't a Knick) off his age 20 season.

Heh

Making me work updating your portrait

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3cRW8BeijQAW3zjyVDhjwb69b5xcOjaDGXrIxy_vyMl-Ms4HXZIS0bTNNQlrnJQSeV07z2xSu5exqV4hA1GI-Z2N1v77q9dNZZuKC6DEj8ohCBf-aEQdBfAiEEvznzLgzPmBHtwclYMzGBt7TchRhtY=w368-h570-no?authuser=0)

You only did the "heh" this time, but I'm sure the "lol" will come, so I just pre-updated.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 12, 2020, 09:14:54 PM
Only in your parallel Trumpian universe of alternate facts, would a fire sale relic such as Culver be considered a valuable asset we should consider accepting as the sweetner for flipping the #8 pick for the #17 pick.   


Fac

Chip's KILLING you.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 12, 2020, 09:20:48 PM
I'm not burying the kid.  Nor am I accepting the notion that he represents any sort of 'asset' nor that we should invest in an expensive redundancy seeing as how we have this RJ Barrett fellow at the 2-spot, and while he struggled, he certainly had a much better season.   


Too late, pal
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 12, 2020, 09:25:15 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 12, 2020, 09:10:28 PM
Knicks take OKORO

Over Okongwu, Lewis, Hayes, Vassell, Bey, Achiuwa (thats the rest of the lottery)

Nesmith and Smith - my 2 guys - go 15 and 17.  Terry 21.  Anthony 23.

Knicks add Nico Mannion at 27

If no Haliburton?

Okoro or Vassell or Lewis. 

Tough call.  Lewis might just be the Jah Morant of this draft. 

I just saw mock where Topin drops in our lap.  Of course, they also had the Bulls taking Hayes at #4.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 12, 2020, 09:39:50 PM
By the way -  J Flynn sadly succumbed to repeated injury and thus lost his NBA career.  Dig his grave as well if you need to.  I think thats a bit sick, your need to do so.
Title: Knicktanic
Post by: bodiddley on November 13, 2020, 01:13:58 AM
Quote from: chipstern on November 12, 2020, 03:39:54 PM
I think that is a snide and willful misrepresentation of Knox. 
Every wonder why his name pops up in every rumored trade? 

I didn't realize that was the case.
If it is, it's probably because we have no other assets anyone wants.
(even Mitch and RJB aren't safe bets to be quality NBA players, and we have them off-limits)
________________________________________________________________________

You guys have convinced me that the Knix could blow another draft.
Always something else to worry about ...

Okoro and Manion would be a disaster, as though we were a good playoff team filling out our bench.
wow...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 13, 2020, 10:08:04 AM
Why do you discount so many players?  It's a bit maddening.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 13, 2020, 10:45:12 AM
AUSTIN RIVERS declines player option, immediately becoming a Knicks target

Definitely a Thibs type.
Title: TRUMP Junior
Post by: chipstern on November 13, 2020, 11:16:34 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 12, 2020, 09:39:50 PM
By the way -  J Flynn sadly succumbed to repeated injury and thus lost his NBA career.  Dig his grave as well if you need to.  I think thats a bit sick, your need to do so.

Starring Kiid As MISTER COMPASSION.

My GOD, but you are a flaming anal apperture. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 13, 2020, 11:22:28 AM
Vassell will not change for anyone.  Not good

An alarming workout video recently surfaced online of Vassell heaving long jumpers with what appeared to be an awkwardly new shooting motion. Teams actually quizzed him about the video. “I’ve seen the video,’’ Vassell said. “I haven’t changed my jump shot. I feel there’s no reason to change my jump shot. It was end of the workout, and we were shooting it a lot deeper from the regular NBA 3-point line. It was the angle she took it. I caught the ball a lot further than I normally do. “But I’ve never attempted to change my jump shot and won’t change it because I’ve had a lot of success with the jump shot I have right now.’’ – via Marc Berman @ New York Post


But we like him and he likes us

“I talked to [Thibodeau] — he’s a great coach,’’ Vassell said when asked by The Post about his Knicks workout. “We talked about defense. We talked about what their team is looking for. I feel like I can help that team and fill that void. I just think everything went extremely well with the Knicks and the coach. It would be a blessing if I can be part of that team
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 13, 2020, 11:25:11 AM
Stefan Bondy: Heard the Knicks are fans of Oregon’s Payton Pritchard, a possibility for their 27th pick. – via Twitter SBondyNYDN


Nice.  The kid's a wizard.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 13, 2020, 11:29:19 AM
If Becky Hammon is disappointed when we get on a Zoom call on Wednesday afternoon, she doesn’t show it. Earlier that morning, the Oklahoma City Thunder announced the hiring of a new head coach—and despite being widely considered a top contender for the role, instead of announcing the first female head coach in the National Basketball Association, the organization named the zillionth man. Still, Hammon, who has been a top assistant coach for the Spurs since finishing her WNBA career with the San Antonio Stars in 2014, sits comfortably in a purple checked blazer with her collar popped, as swaggering a personality as any you’d find in the NBA. – via Texas Monthly

I love Becky Hammon.  But come on.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 13, 2020, 11:35:48 AM
The trade down - or trade up from 27 - point guard -

Mike Vorkunov: Knicks reached out to schedule a second interview with Stanford PG Tyrell Terry (nothing has materialized yet), according to league sources. Terry seems like a draft riser. Knicks have been looking into point guards but keeping their draft plans tight. – via Twitter MikeVorkunov
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 13, 2020, 11:43:05 AM
Is Jordan really dumb enough to deal the #3 overall pick for Westbrook?

Stay tuned.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 13, 2020, 11:47:41 AM
Julius, Taj, Frank and #27 for

#6 and Dedmon
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 13, 2020, 12:01:00 PM
Be great for us.
I;d even throw in Iggy ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jerrya on November 13, 2020, 12:35:29 PM
Getting ready to place my annual win total for the Knicks.  The going number is 22 1/2 for the 72 game schedule.  Leaning towards the over.  Any tips besides don't gamble;-)
Title: Stop Making Sense [NY TIMES]
Post by: chipstern on November 13, 2020, 01:29:57 PM
The Knicks Should Relax This Off-Season

With flexibility and no surefire superstars in the free agent pool, the Knicks are better off positioning for 2022, given that they won’t contend for a title immediately.


By Sopan Deb
Nov. 12, 2020

Say it this time with feeling: The Knicks have lots to look forward to this coming season — a stable management structure, talented young players to build around and a respected coach.

OK, we said that last year, too. And the Knicks ended up among the worst teams in the league again. They cleaned house with most of management and fired their respected coach.

So is there good reason to actually be bullish on the Knicks? Yes, with Patrick Ewing-size caveats.

The Knicks’ basketball leadership, led by team President Leon Rose, General Manager Scott Perry (a holdover from last year) and Coach Tom Thibodeau, has crucial decisions to make this off-season. The team pretty much has a blank slate, with lots of cap flexibility, few contracts beyond 2021 and some intriguing trade pieces.

Of course, every team has important considerations. But for the Knicks, a poor trade, draft pick or free agent signing will hamper the team’s credibility at a time when impatient fans are already tuning out. (Knicks attendance has declined steadily since 2016.) The team has not made the playoffs since 2013 and hasn’t won a championship since “All In The Family” was in its prime.

Free agency officially begins on Nov. 20, two days after the draft, where the Knicks, as a result of an unlucky lottery, will draft eighth.

Right now, the Knicks do not have a single player who can be considered a surefire contributor to a championship team. This isn’t ideal, but it’s not terrible, either. It means the Knicks aren’t closely tied to anyone, allowing for greater flexibility when it comes to trades. The closest to a cornerstone is RJ Barrett, who was drafted third in 2019. His rookie year was inconsistent, as he averaged 14.3 points, 5 rebounds and 2.6 assists while shooting about 40 percent. He did not make either of the two All N.B.A. rookie teams, but showed flashes of star potential.

How much cap space do the Knicks have?

A lot, and maybe even more than they expect. The N.B.A. announced this week that the league salary cap would be $109.1 million and the luxury tax level would be $132.6 million. The Knicks have approximately $82 million tied up in salary right now, not including their first-round draft picks, leaving them as one of the few teams with substantial cap space (roughly between $20 million and $30 million). This is enough to acquire a player who commands a maximum level contract, either through trade or free agency. And that $82 million number is flexible, depending on what contracts the Knicks choose to guarantee next year.

Surely some of that cap space will be used on the Knicks’ current players.

The Knicks have several players who are either under a team option or non-guaranteed contracts for next season. They have team options on Bobby Portis’s $15 million contract and on Theo Pinson’s, which is slightly less than $2 million. Maurice Harkless and Damyean Dotson are both unrestricted free agents.

Other players, like Elfrid Payton, Reggie Bullock, Wayne Ellington and Taj Gibson, have only a small portion of their contracts — about $1 million — guaranteed for next season.

Bet on few, if any, of these players returning next season. (Gibson might return at a lesser salary, given his history with Thibodeau with the Bulls.)

What’s the deal with draft picks?

Aside from the eighth pick, the Knicks will pick again in the first round at No. 27, and again at No. 38 over all in the second round. They also have a bevy of future picks to offer in trade talks.

This sounds promising. What do the Knicks need?

Um, everything? The team needs more consistent playmaking, shooting and defense.

That’s mean. Surely, they have some reason for optimism beyond players they might get.

Maybe.

The 22-year-old Mitchell Robinson made some strides last season. He led the league in field goal percentage (74.2 percent) and remained an excellent defensive presence around the rim. The knock on him is he gets into foul trouble, which actually improved last year. He’s also not much of an offensive threat beyond dunking. Robinson is entering the last year of his rookie contract, so don’t be surprised if extension talks heat up soon.

Other young players like Kevin Knox, Frank Ntilikina and Dennis Smith Jr. have just not shown any sort of meaningful consistency.

So what should the Knicks do?

Relax and enjoy the ride.

That isn’t something that owner James Dolan wants to hear, but this season will almost assuredly be a bridge year without a trip to the playoffs. In theory, this campaign will be more about installing good habits on the floor than wins and losses. It’ll be about development and seeing whether any of the Knicks’ young players are worth keeping long-term.

And that’s OK.

Do the Knicks have enough flexibility to sign a maximum contract superstar? Yes. Maybe even two. Should they? Absolutely not. This is a much different off-season than last year, when stars like Kyrie Irving and Kevin Durant were on the market.

The best unrestricted free agents that will be available are Montrezl Harrell and Fred VanVleet. They’ll want long-term deals. Both have been bench players for the majority of their careers and are not going to make a team into a championship contender. Using cap space for the sake of using it is not sound team-building.

There are players with optouts, like Gordon Hayward and DeMar DeRozan, who might become available, both quality players on the wrong side of 30.

What the Knicks do have is cap space, draft picks and young players with potential. Those three things combined make the Knicks an attractive trade partner for when a disgruntled star (or stars) makes his feelings known.

Next year’s free agent class is far more interesting, with names like Paul George, Kawhi Leonard and Giannis Antetokounmpo all potentially targets for the Knicks.

They should do nothing then?

Not quite. Signing a bunch of players to one- or two-year deals, like before the 2019-2020 season, actually was very smart. That’s the way to go and see if someone sticks. Maybe Goran Dragic, Davis Bertans and Serge Ibaka (all unrestricted free agents) all can be had for pricey one- or two-year deals, allowing the team to keep its cap flexibility while also improving the team immediately. (This would complicate midseason trades, but that is probably fine.)

Another possible use of cap space: Trading for players with bloated contracts that other teams don’t want, provided they attach draft picks to add to the Knicks’ bank.

The Knicks are not going to win the championship in 2021. They are building for something beyond that. So being careful and measured with their moves — as opposed to pulling panic moves to win now — is the right path to take. Now it’s on the team’s fans (and its owner) to see that plan through and wait for the right time to cash in all the chips.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 13, 2020, 01:32:22 PM
Quote from: Jerrya on November 13, 2020, 12:35:29 PM
Getting ready to place my annual win total for the Knicks.  The going number is 22 1/2 for the 72 game schedule.  Leaning towards the over.  Any tips besides don't gamble;-)

Maybe wait for the draft and free agency over the next couple of weeks. Day after Thanksgiving you should have a better idea of who the Knicks are which should at least slightly impact how much they win.

Prying the 6 out of Atlanta is a fine idea. The yute available for that project should be DSJ, Iggy, or possibly Knox. No one else.

Does Atlanta think Julius can play with Collins and Capella?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 13, 2020, 01:39:51 PM
Say it this time with feeling: The Knicks have lots to look forward to this coming season — a stable management structure, talented young players to build around and a respected coach.

OK, we said that last year, too. And the Knicks ended up among the worst teams in the league again. They cleaned house with most of management and fired their respected coach

uh......

what?

I liked Barrett.  This I will admit to.  And thought adding Randle was a positive.

But that was it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 13, 2020, 01:54:34 PM
I knew Fac wouldnt give Frank for the #6

Heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 13, 2020, 02:15:03 PM
Rumor of day -

LAL send Green and Kuzma to Spurs for DeRozen.

I'd send the 27 to San Antone and take Green
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 13, 2020, 02:31:16 PM
Nope.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 13, 2020, 02:50:32 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 13, 2020, 01:32:22 PM
Does Atlanta think Julius can play with Collins and Capella?

Doubtfully.
Word is ATL is looking for D and outside shooting.
Which is not what Randle offers.
No way ATL gives up #6 for Julius & #27.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 13, 2020, 03:27:48 PM
Depth.

And guys who can play, simply

Right now 3 guys stand out in ATL - Collins, Capela and Young.

Julius would be a 4th.  But so might the #6 pick.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 13, 2020, 04:11:47 PM
Fwiw, Ball said to be underwhelming in interviews.
I'd agree -- here's him barely answering Q's at the combine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0RhTA-rseo
He really doesn't say much or give much away. 
Pretty boring and provides few if any details.
I imagine the platitudes and short answers didn't please anyone.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 13, 2020, 04:46:49 PM
BALL DOESN'T LACK CONFIDENCE

Asked which former or current players he would compare himself to Ball said “I don’t compare myself to nobody“.  LaMelo did concede comparison to his sibling Lonzo was fair given it’s his brother. In one of the few moments of the interview where he provided more than a few words in response he noted he speaks to Lonzo almost daily telling him to just be himself and other tips, the youngster couldn’t remember. Asked about facing his brother next season he says “it’s just another game”.

In terms of his strengths, LaMelo stated ‘just the flow of the game, passing outlets, all the little things’. The guard is focused on tightening up all aspects of his game including shooting and passing. Ironically he shut down the question regarding his shooting form immediately although it is the one aspect of his game pundits have suggested could limit his ceiling


yep
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 13, 2020, 04:54:22 PM
LaMelo Ball - One of One


https://www.esquire.com/style/mens-fashion/a34398430/lamelo-ball-puma-sponsorship-deal/


If you’ve ever been a 19-year-old before, you surely can relate to that particular blend of swagger and inexperience. However, not many people at that age own a pro-sports team they once played for, or were thrown into the spotlight by outspoken celebrity parents, or, for that matter, were offered large-scale endorsement deals before playing a single game in the NBA.





yep
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 13, 2020, 06:22:47 PM
Ball highs and lows - WITH INTERVIEW

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyBqX-c_kls

You took one blurb from 10/30 and ran with it - idiotic take about LaMelo falling for interview reason.

Be better.
Title: What Is The Common Thread?
Post by: chipstern on November 13, 2020, 07:41:57 PM
Jimmer Fredette

Jordan Hill

Johnny Flynn

Sebastian Telfair

Antonio McDyess

Donald Trump
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 13, 2020, 07:50:17 PM
Knicks deal Knox, Ntlikina and the #8

for

Jeff Teague (sign and trade) and the #6.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 13, 2020, 07:56:26 PM
JAZZ open to moving back from 23

38 and 27 may get it done
Title: Re: What Is The Common Thread?
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 13, 2020, 08:26:35 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 13, 2020, 07:41:57 PM
Jimmer Fredette

Jordan Hill

Johnny Flynn

Sebastian Telfair

Antonio McDyess

Donald Trump

No idea.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 13, 2020, 08:34:39 PM
Kiid found the through line.

I do like that Jazz pick swap.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 13, 2020, 08:40:29 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 13, 2020, 07:50:17 PM
Knicks deal Knox, Ntlikina and the #8

for

Jeff Teague (sign and trade) and the #6.

LOL
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 13, 2020, 08:54:36 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 13, 2020, 08:40:29 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 13, 2020, 07:50:17 PM
Knicks deal Knox, Ntlikina and the #8

for

Jeff Teague (sign and trade) and the #6.

LOL

Dumber than a bag of hammers. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 13, 2020, 09:02:36 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 13, 2020, 08:54:36 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 13, 2020, 08:40:29 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 13, 2020, 07:50:17 PM
Knicks deal Knox, Ntlikina and the #8

for

Jeff Teague (sign and trade) and the #6.

LOL

Dumber than a bag of hammers.

At least if you hurt yourself with a bag of hammers it smarts.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 13, 2020, 09:56:22 PM
8 to 6 is a big leap
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 13, 2020, 10:13:44 PM
DSJ, Julius and one of Dallas first rounders

for




RUUSSSSSSSSSSSELLLLLLLL......
Title: Advice form kiid
Post by: bodiddley on November 13, 2020, 10:50:13 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 13, 2020, 06:22:47 PM
You took one blurb from 10/30 and ran with it - idiotic take about LaMelo falling for interview reason.
Be better.

Responding to what isn't incoherent in your post:
I spotted a Yahoo article saying Ball was awful in interviews.
Which linked to the main report saying teams were turned off by Ball interviews.

Then I googled "LaMelo Ball interview" and spotted a number of articles about his poor answering.  (Dismissing an article which said he could drop due to that and also speculating it could be NYK trying to spread rumors and getting him to drop). 

But instead of linking to one of the many 'Ball is crappy at interviewing' articles, I posted a very neutral youtube vid of Ball himself non-answering Q's for 20 mins.

So instead of your characterization of me allegedly mischaracterizing one "blurb", I actually researched it, skimmed through a few articles, gave a succinct summary and provided Ball himself interviewing.  I don't think I could have been more thorough or objective.

But continue to be wrong and not know what you're talking about.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 13, 2020, 10:53:56 PM
Then I googled "LaMelo Ball interview" and spotted a number of articles about his poor answering.  (Dismissing an article which said he could drop due to that and also speculating it could be NYK trying to spread rumors and getting him to drop).


It was all from one article

Be better

And eat more chicken
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 13, 2020, 11:05:48 PM
In the 20 min video I linked to Ball didn't seem to understand the point of the questions which was to get him talk about himself and his game.  20 mins of Ball and you learned nothing except that he tries to answer Q's as short and blandly as possible.  The only time he said anything was in relation to his family (Dad and NBA bro).  Ball couldn't even give  a hint about what he is working on in training and on court.

My follow-up would be to see how quiet/reticent Ball is on court and in the locker room, as you want your starting PG to be a leader.  Teams thinking of drafting him might want to look at the Ball family reality show where LaMelo was said to be pretty immature (he was young).

And i didn't click your link, one Ball vid was enough for me.  Knix not going to draft him, etc.

Otherwise I'm thoroughly opposed to the daily animal holocaust.
Stop eating dead animal carcasses!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 13, 2020, 11:20:51 PM
How many guards have 750+ games played with a 17+ career PER?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 13, 2020, 11:26:24 PM
I will put it a different way -

There are 19 active NBA guards over a 17 PER career - minimum 15000 minutes played

Jeff Teague makes the list
Title: Now it’s Melania?
Post by: carlos123 on November 14, 2020, 12:38:03 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 13, 2020, 10:53:56 PM

Be better


U mean “BE BEST”, don’t you Chamaco?

When you said “be better” the first time I thought it was just plain silly.

But then you repeated urself.

Go Melania, divorce that clown already!
Title: email from Josh
Post by: carlos123 on November 14, 2020, 01:59:38 PM
Just trying to see if the site is up again after this email:

"Hi folks -
 
This is to let you know that it is not your account which has been suspended, but ours (Elba's). I don't know why or by whom. Nor am I sure that I will be able to find out, as I am only a moderator and not an admin or owner. But if I can figure it out, I will.

I don't have emails for everybody, as I had not thought to compile them. My mistake.

Also, I know some of you probably have no interest in having received this note, but as I don't know who is or is not active on the site at the moment, I figured to include you all and that you could let me know to drop you from future correspondence if you so desire.
 
Josh"

IT SEEMS TO BE WORKING, at least for me. Anybody else?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on November 14, 2020, 02:55:27 PM
Yes, works for me.

Look, this site is getting Dicey. I'd love to keep in touch with everyone.


As I've said before. leave an email address as a comment at knicksmecca.blogspot.com just in case... it ain't going anywhere til I'm gone... so there's that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: josh on November 14, 2020, 03:21:59 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on November 14, 2020, 02:55:27 PM
Yes, works for me.

Look, this site is getting Dicey. I'd love to keep in touch with everyone.


As I've said before. leave an email address as a comment at knicksmecca.blogspot.com just in case... it ain't going anywhere til I'm gone... so there's that.

This site isn't going anywhere, whether I step down as mod or not.

This was just a hiccup, barely even technical.

Did you get a note from me?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 14, 2020, 03:57:49 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on November 14, 2020, 02:55:27 PM
leave an email address as a comment at knicksmecca.blogspot.com just in case... it ain't going anywhere til I'm gone... so there's that.

I'm ready to go there if the flood ever hits elba.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 14, 2020, 04:02:28 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on November 14, 2020, 02:55:27 PM
Yes, works for me.

Look, this site is getting Dicey. I'd love to keep in touch with everyone.


As I've said before. leave an email address as a comment at knicksmecca.blogspot.com just in case... it ain't going anywhere til I'm gone... so there's that.

Can't see any recent comments at knicksmecca.  Is it that hard to navigate?
Title: Thank you Josh
Post by: carlos123 on November 14, 2020, 04:28:19 PM
Quote from: josh on November 14, 2020, 03:21:59 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on November 14, 2020, 02:55:27 PM
Yes, works for me.

Look, this site is getting Dicey. I'd love to keep in touch with everyone.


As I've said before. leave an email address as a comment at knicksmecca.blogspot.com just in case... it ain't going anywhere til I'm gone... so there's that.

This site isn't going anywhere, whether I step down as mod or not.

This was just a hiccup, barely even technical.

Did you get a note from me?

Thanks Josh. I really appreciate your efforts and hope you decide to stay as moderator.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 14, 2020, 05:58:19 PM
Yay! We’re back!

Rose needs to keep Thibs on a leash. Youth, prospects, and a reasonable support group of vets while maintaining our flexibility going forward.

There are some stupidly bad ideas out there in the noisysphere we need to pass on. Let other teams make those mistakes or the ones who already have continue to live with them.
Title: Check
Post by: chipstern on November 14, 2020, 07:10:52 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 13, 2020, 10:13:44 PM
DSJ, Julius and one of Dallas first rounders

for




RUUSSSSSSSSSSSELLLLLLLL......

[2023 #1]

Not sure Houston would bite, but that seems sensible and fair, even if my inclination is still to go slow.  But I suspect Thibs wants to come out of the gate with his foot to the pedal.   I believe it hinges on the draft.  If we stay at #8, if we have a shot at Haliburton, or, if Russell is on ice....???

1    Minnesota   Anthony Edwards   6-5   225   SG   Georgia   Fr.
2    Golden St.   James Wiseman   7-1   235   C   Memphis   Fr.
3    Charlotte   Onyeka Okongwu   6-9   235   PF/C   USC   Fr.
4    Chicago   LaMelo Ball   6-8   180   PG   USA   Intl.
5    Cleveland   Obi Toppin   6-9   220   PF   Dayton   So.
6    Atlanta   Patrick Williams   6-7   215   SF/PF   Florida St.   Fr.
7    Detroit   Isaac Okoro   6-6   215   SG/SF   Auburn   Fr.
8    New York   Tyrese Haliburton   6-5   185   PG   Iowa St.   So.
9    Washington   Deni Avdija   6-9   210   SF   Israel   Intl.
10    Phoenix   Killian Hayes   6-5   195   PG   France   Intl.
11    San Antonio   Devin Vassell   6-7   200   SG   Florida St.   So.
12    Sacramento   Saddiq Bey   6-8   215   SF   Villanova   So.
13    New Orleans   Kira Lewis   6-3   170   PG   Alabama   So.
14    *Boston   Aaron Nesmith

Think anyone related to Paul Silas would smack his lips over Randle. 

And I believe DSJ would benefit playing with Harden and Gordon, as it would open up driving lanes for him. 

Wake me when it happens. 

Why would I put my heart into this as opposed to CP3? Especially considering Westbrook is a double edged sword.  Alive with minuses and plusses. 

He is a mediocre three point shooter.  Though in his best season with OKC,  back in 2015-16, he got up to .343% [200-583], but sliding since. 

He is a high volume shooter. 

Purportedly a moody motherfucker. 

And he just turned 32.  Which is slightly more tenable than 35, even though his contract is a year longer and just as scary [41,44, 47]

Still, not so gray around the fringes. 

As the dominant ballhanlder his last four seasons in OKC, he averaged 10.5 assists a game.  And 6.0, 9.0, 9.2, 9.6 boards.

27.2 ppg, 7.9 reb, 7.0 assist last season with Houston. 

Not a leader?

If RW is your bell cow, as he would be in NYC, you better believe he would be a leader, by example. 

I suspect Thibs wants to play with pace, and RW surely ups the pace. 

I suspect Thibs wants someone to drive to the hoop and break down the D and open up deiving lanes and easier shots. 

I suspect Thibs wants someone who raises the level of intensity. 

Let's put it this way.

My son in law took me to a Charlotte-OKC game in 2018-2019. 

Hornets jumped on OKC.

In the second half, Wetbrook TOOK OVER. 

I've said this before, but it bear repeating. 

RW was like Barry Sanders in sneakers. 

When he pushed the ball up court, his intensity was palpable, let alone the sheer sound of his sneakers on the floor....bambambam...the Hornets defenders were on their heels.  He either finished himself, often with a +1, or kicked out to an open shooter. 

The chemistry between Westbrook and the Garden Faithful would be electrifying. 

And it had better be, given the guaranteed money involved. 

I believe RW would be inspired by the Garden and by being THE MAN. 

There is such a rain of BS and speculation busting out all over, any and all rumors needs be taken with a bag of salt. 

Again, I like Randle, but he seems like a placeholder.  His absence would leave a hole for sure, though perhaps an affordable FA might beckon. 

AGAIN, I am not a proponent of THE BIG SPLASH, but if Rose wants to roll that way, well...and have someone eating such an immense piece of the cap, if the price is only [ONLY], Julius, Dennis and the 2023 Dallas #1, well....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on November 14, 2020, 07:13:30 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 14, 2020, 04:02:28 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on November 14, 2020, 02:55:27 PM
Yes, works for me.

Look, this site is getting Dicey. I'd love to keep in touch with everyone.


As I've said before. leave an email address as a comment at knicksmecca.blogspot.com just in case... it ain't going anywhere til I'm gone... so there's that.


Can't see any recent comments at knicksmecca.  Is it that hard to navigate?

No. I simply haven't posted much.  You and everyone else are welcome to become authors there on the blog and I'll tidy up the links if you like.  It's very straightforward and I won't censor anything that isn't wholly inappropriate.

All of you might want to simply get established as authors as a backup plan.  Elba could evaporate suddenly.  Google OTOH is not going under in our lifetimes.

If you have suggestions, bring em on.  Covid has me homebound.
Title: Of Two Minds
Post by: chipstern on November 14, 2020, 07:18:17 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 14, 2020, 07:10:52 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 13, 2020, 10:13:44 PM
DSJ, Julius and one of Dallas first rounders

for




RUUSSSSSSSSSSSELLLLLLLL......

[2023 #1]

Not sure Houston would bite, but that seems sensible and fair, even if my inclination is still to go slow.  But I suspect Thibs wants to come out of the gate with his foot to the pedal.   I believe it hinges on the draft.  If we stay at #8, if we have a shot at Haliburton, or, if Russell is on ice....???

1    Minnesota   Anthony Edwards   6-5   225   SG   Georgia   Fr.
2    Golden St.   James Wiseman   7-1   235   C   Memphis   Fr.
3    Charlotte   Onyeka Okongwu   6-9   235   PF/C   USC   Fr.
4    Chicago   LaMelo Ball   6-8   180   PG   USA   Intl.
5    Cleveland   Obi Toppin   6-9   220   PF   Dayton   So.
6    Atlanta   Patrick Williams   6-7   215   SF/PF   Florida St.   Fr.
7    Detroit   Isaac Okoro   6-6   215   SG/SF   Auburn   Fr.
8    New York   Tyrese Haliburton   6-5   185   PG   Iowa St.   So.
9    Washington   Deni Avdija   6-9   210   SF   Israel   Intl.
10    Phoenix   Killian Hayes   6-5   195   PG   France   Intl.
11    San Antonio   Devin Vassell   6-7   200   SG   Florida St.   So.
12    Sacramento   Saddiq Bey   6-8   215   SF   Villanova   So.
13    New Orleans   Kira Lewis   6-3   170   PG   Alabama   So.
14    *Boston   Aaron Nesmith

Think anyone related to Paul Silas would smack his lips over Randle. 

And I believe DSJ would benefit playing with Harden and Gordon, as it would open up driving lanes for him. 

Wake me when it happens. 

Why would I put my heart into this as opposed to CP3? Especially considering Westbrook is a double edged sword.  Alive with minuses and plusses. 

He is a mediocre three point shooter.  Though in his best season with OKC,  back in 2015-16, he got up to .343% [200-583], but sliding since. 

He is a high volume shooter. 

Purportedly a moody motherfucker. 

And he just turned 32.  Which is slightly more tenable than 35, even though his contract is a year longer and just as scary [41,44, 47]

Still, not so gray around the fringes. 

As the dominant ballhanlder his last four seasons in OKC, he averaged 10.5 assists a game.  And 6.0, 9.0, 9.2, 9.6 boards.

27.2 ppg, 7.9 reb, 7.0 assist last season with Houston. 

Not a leader?

If RW is your bell cow, as he would be in NYC, you better believe he would be a leader, by example. 

I suspect Thibs wants to play with pace, and RW surely ups the pace. 

I suspect Thibs wants someone to drive to the hoop and break down the D and open up deiving lanes and easier shots. 

I suspect Thibs wants someone who raises the level of intensity. 

Let's put it this way.

My son in law took me to a Charlotte-OKC game in 2018-2019. 

Hornets jumped on OKC.

In the second half, Wetbrook TOOK OVER. 

I've said this before, but it bear repeating. 

RW was like Barry Sanders in sneakers. 

When he pushed the ball up court, his intensity was palpable, let alone the sheer sound of his sneakers on the floor....bambambam...the Hornets defenders were on their heels.  He either finished himself, often with a +1, or kicked out to an open shooter. 

The chemistry between Westbrook and the Garden Faithful would be electrifying. 

And it had better be, given the guaranteed money involved. 

I believe RW would be inspired by the Garden and by being THE MAN. 

There is such a rain of BS and speculation busting out all over, any and all rumors needs be taken with a bag of salt. 

Again, I like Randle, but he seems like a placeholder.  His absence would leave a hole for sure, though perhaps an affordable FA might beckon. 

AGAIN, I am with FACIL, and am not a proponent of THE BIG SPLASH, but if Rose wants to roll that way, well...and have someone eating such an immense piece of the cap, if the price is only [ONLY], Julius, Dennis and the 2023 Dallas #1, well....
, in a sea of bad ideas, this one is marginally less painful. 

MARGINALLY. 

Your thoughts, FaCil? 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 14, 2020, 07:47:11 PM
Avdija likely wont be there but if we did get Russ, Deni over Tyrese is an easy call.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 14, 2020, 07:54:14 PM
NBA Central: The New York Knicks may be willing to move R.J. Barrett or Mitchell Robinson if it meant landing one of the top three picks, per @Chad Ford (h/t @Sam Amico ) pic.twitter.com/VPsknnOgFe

Shit's gettin real for LaMelo and Knicks
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 14, 2020, 10:50:14 PM
... and the only thing that really makes sense is my Mitch to GSW trade.

Mini doesn't need RJB.  Mitch would be a minor role player there.
GSW and CHA don't need RJB, they want shooters and defenders.
CHA might like Mitch, but could just draft WiseMan or Okongwu.

But give GSW a 15-20 min a night rim protecting, long-armed perimeter guarding, rim-running Mitch.
And the #8 pick.  Draft a 3&D wing -- Vassell?  Pa Williams?  Saddiq?  Okoro?

GSW adds Mitch & Vassell
or Mitch & Okoro
or Mitch and Pat Williams.

Again, I'd flip Wiggins for love, so not relying on too many yute role players.
Mitch would revive Dray.  They could be an awesome defensive tandem.

Scurry - ??
Klay - Damion Lee
Vassell/Okoro - ??
Love - Paschall
Dray - Mitch

Well, they'd still need some backup G's and wings.
They should try to scoop up Brad Wanamaker for the ~$4M exception (what used to be the LLE).
Guy played hard on both ends.  Could back up Scurry.
Try to pick up a vet SF with some 3&D chops who could start some.  Like a Bullock/Courtney Lee type.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on November 14, 2020, 10:55:58 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 14, 2020, 07:54:14 PM
NBA Central: The New York Knicks may be willing to move R.J. Barrett or Mitchell Robinson if it meant landing one of the top three picks, per @Chad Ford (h/t @Sam Amico ) pic.twitter.com/VPsknnOgFe

Shit's gettin real for LaMelo and Knicks

Not this shit.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on November 14, 2020, 10:59:40 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 14, 2020, 10:50:14 PM
... and the only thing that really makes sense is my Mitch to GSW trade.

Mini doesn't need RJB.  Mitch would be a minor role player there.
GSW and CHA don't need RJB, they want shooters and defenders.
CHA might like Mitch, but could just draft WiseMan or Okongwu.

But give GSW a 15-20 min a night rim protecting, long-armed perimeter guarding, rim-running Mitch.
And the #8 pick.  Draft a 3&D wing -- Vassell?  Pa Williams?  Saddiq?  Okoro?

GSW adds Mitch & Vassell
or Mitch & Okoro
or Mitch and Pat Williams.

Again, I'd flip Wiggins for love, so not relying on too many yute role players.
Mitch would revive Dray.  They could be an awesome defensive tandem.

Scurry - ??
Klay - Damion Lee
Vassell/Okoro - ??
Love - Paschall
Dray - Mitch

Well, they'd still need some backup G's and wings.
They should try to scoop up Brad Wanamaker for the ~$4M exception (what used to be the LLE).
Guy played hard on both ends.  Could back up Scurry.
Try to pick up a vet SF with some 3&D chops who could start some.  Like a Bullock/Courtney Lee type.

So you're saying the Knicks sacrifice MR and Vassell for (presumably) Ball? who?

AND they pay a higher contract to Ball than MR.  What a deal!

Why would they do this?
Title: This time it’s about the fucking Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on November 14, 2020, 11:25:37 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on November 14, 2020, 10:59:40 PM

So you're saying the Knicks sacrifice MR and Vassell for (presumably) Ball? who?

AND they pay a higher contract to Ball than MR.  What a deal!

Why would they do this?

Why?
Because they’re the fucking Knicks and they listen to advice from morons that are at the same level of idiocy of Chamaco Cartero.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 14, 2020, 11:41:58 PM
They do it to get a high level starting PG for the next decade plus.
They do it if they believe Ball is a potential all-star.
Getting a high quality starting PG is the only thing that will turn the Knix around.
A 19 year old PG prodigy.
Yeah, why would anyone want that?
Got to give to get.

Caveats:
1) Not a sure thing Ball lasts to #2.
(of course the deal would be contingent upon GSW picking Ball for us)
2) I haven't seen Ball play much, but he does make some genius level passes.  His casual full court transition passes off the dribble are uncanny.

If Ball had better form on his J, Mitch & #8 for Ball would a no-brainer.
Mitch is a fun intriguing player, but defensive C's can be found much easier than a staring PG. And the lack of a quality defensive C can be papered over much easier than not having a good PG.

Mitch and Vassell are nice building blocks I'd like the Knix to have.
But Ball could be a franchise cornerstone.
It's simply a level up.

I forgot GSW has Looney and is so thin at G.
We could expand the deal to get Looney ($5M) and give them Elf or Jr. Smith.
I'd want to hold off on including Franc.
Elf, despite his lack of 3's, would fit there well as a Scurry backup who could run the team.
Run him out there with Mitch and Klay.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 15, 2020, 12:02:26 AM
Rusty is too much of a commitment for too long. Screw that. Let Houston enjoy the marriage.

If Ball drops to 8, sure, pick him. No trading up for him though.

Actually if a team above us takes him and will give him up for 8 and the second rounder, pull the trigger.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 15, 2020, 12:16:30 AM
None of that taint happenin'
Got to give to get.
You don't value Ball highly.  Fine.

TheMelo has some incredible passing vision.
While a 6'7" PG with handles and vision is rare.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 15, 2020, 12:38:52 AM
I’d rather let someone else pay for the privilege of rubbing his warts out enough that he’s a fully functional player over his first two guaranteed years.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 15, 2020, 12:39:13 AM
GSW and CHA don't need RJB, they want shooters and defenders.


Hornets need everything - their GM - my former neighbor - said so just today.
Title: Re: This time it’s about the fucking Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 15, 2020, 12:45:04 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on November 14, 2020, 11:25:37 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on November 14, 2020, 10:59:40 PM

So you're saying the Knicks sacrifice MR and Vassell for (presumably) Ball? who?

AND they pay a higher contract to Ball than MR.  What a deal!

Why would they do this?

Why?
Because they’re the fucking Knicks and they listen to advice from morons that are at the same level of idiocy of Chamaco Cartero.

Heh

I really enjoy your latest lines, Carlos.

Knicks do this because Robinson will cost them a fortune when they try to re-sign him - and they arent sure he'd be worth it.

I dont see RJ being sold unless we also get a usable player back with the #1 or 2

Are we also doing this for a different player than LaMelo (read:  if Ball is not going to be there)?

Maybe.
Title: GSW
Post by: carlos123 on November 15, 2020, 12:47:52 AM
BoZ, if Ball was such a sure thing, such a genius, why would GS do that trade?
Curry is 32, going on to 33 pretty soon. I’m sure they could coexist for a while, with plenty of minutes for Ball at the 1 or 2. Great guard rotation Curry-Ball-Klay.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on November 15, 2020, 12:57:45 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 15, 2020, 12:02:26 AM
Rusty is too much of a commitment for too long. Screw that. Let Houston enjoy the marriage.

If Ball drops to 8, sure, pick him. No trading up for him though.

Actually if a team above us takes him and will give him up for 8 and the second rounder, pull the trigger.

This is more or less how I feel about it.

Ball has real value - 6'7" and talented.  But there's something about this draft that has leveled the playing field.

The picture being painted is that the GSW get EVERYTHING they need to once again dominate the league including some cap relief!

One would think that somebody picking early would be gushing over drafting a 10 year franchise player.  But in fact most of the early teams are trying their best to bail out.

If the GSW don't want the expensive commitment of an early pick then 8 is available with a consolation prize, say 27 or 38, or Wooten.

But this is just me talking trash - I really like Vassell for the Knicks and he'll be there at 8.  He, too, has some serious upside in a Thibodeau framework. The GSW KNOW this.  They aren't stupid.

So when these teams have their hands out like oh, yeah, *JUST* MR or RJB *AND* we'll just have to settle for ho-hum Vassell or Haliburton... we'll try to get by....

I mean let's not do that.  At 8, there will be 5 - 8 players all of whom could break out big.

Give me Westbrook/Frankie, RJB/Dot, Bullock/Vassell - will anyone shed a tear about Ball?

Not me.


Title: Re: This time it’s about the fucking Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on November 15, 2020, 01:02:31 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 15, 2020, 12:45:04 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on November 14, 2020, 11:25:37 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on November 14, 2020, 10:59:40 PM

So you're saying the Knicks sacrifice MR and Vassell for (presumably) Ball? who?

AND they pay a higher contract to Ball than MR.  What a deal!

Why would they do this?

Why?
Because they’re the fucking Knicks and they listen to advice from morons that are at the same level of idiocy of Chamaco Cartero.

Heh

I really enjoy your latest lines, Carlos.

Knicks do this because Robinson will cost them a fortune when they try to re-sign him - and they arent sure he'd be worth it.

I dont see RJ being sold unless we also get a usable player back with the #1 or 2

Are we also doing this for a different player than LaMelo (read:  if Ball is not going to be there)?

Maybe.

I could see MR for Wiseman, straight up.

Less risk, similar/different upside.  Knicks would keep their three picks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 15, 2020, 01:53:00 AM
You look at what Thompson and Favors get this off-season. That is the ball park for Mitch’s extension. I don’t know how that will stack up with what Wiseman gets in his guaranteed slot, depending on where he’s drafted.

Having Mitch, I wouldn’t trade him for Wiseman. If I had Wiseman, I wouldn’t offer him for Mitch. I’d try to develop the bird in hand.
Title: Re: This time it’s about the fucking Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 15, 2020, 01:56:56 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on November 14, 2020, 11:25:37 PM
AND they pay a higher contract to Ball than MR.  What a deal!

We need starting talent much more than we need to worry about the cap (of course you do both).

But Mitch is going to require a sizable contract relatively soon.
He's a ridiculous bargain next year at under $2M.
The year after we hold a $2M team option, but man if his people won't be hugely unhappy if Knix force him to honor that.  Meaning he'd likely leave as a FA after 2 years of being extremely underpaid. 

So I'd guess NYK will need to reup Mitch at at least 4/$40M.
Probably more like 4/$50M, with Mitch giving us a bit of a break since we could have suckered him in to the first year of that timeframe at $2M (ie it's akin to picking up the team option of $2M, plus a 3 year extension of 3/$48M -- so 4/$50M seems fair.

Without looking at rook scale numbers, I'm guessing that Ball will be 5 years for roughly $10M average, and Mitch about the same.  But more of that Ball money will count against the cap next year when we have space, and somewhat less in Y4 & Y5 when we should be tighter on cap space.  But overall the cap hit/price between them is likely negligible.
Title: Re: GSW
Post by: bodiddley on November 15, 2020, 02:22:18 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on November 15, 2020, 12:47:52 AM
BoZ, if Ball was such a sure thing, such a genius, why would GS do that trade?
Curry is 32, going on to 33 pretty soon. I’m sure they could coexist for a while, with plenty of minutes for Ball at the 1 or 2. Great guard rotation Curry-Ball-Klay.

No one is saying Ball is a sure thing.
But yes, he has some passing genius.
Take a look at some game assists he's made at 19.
For a few of them, I could watch the replay once or twice and still wouldn't see the passing op except for the fact that he did and connected on it.  Some of what he does reminds me of Jason Kidd.  An apt comparison since Kidd pushed the pace and made great passes but had a somewhat funky outside shot. 
A 6'7" Jason Kidd. 
One scout said that LaMelo likes to try Harlem Globetrotter style passes, yet he's able to make them work in game.  Some passing genius there.

Now it's hard to gauge desire and work ethic and mentality.  He's just 19.  But he seems to really love basketball, his brother is an NBA player, his family supports him, etc.  So a good support network (somewhat similar to RJB).  I don't think you have to worry about NY nightlife corrupting him (who knows, Dwight came into the league a choirboy with a state trooper dad and became a non-workout sex addict or somesuch). 

Not to say that LaMelo will develop into a Jason Kidd-level leader, defender, and late career accurate shooter.  But that's his potential.  I'd say his floor is Brother Lonzo (still developing) or Jason Williams (talented, solid PG, who was a wizard with the ball).
____________________________________________________________________

Having LaMelo will help RJB develop and improve Randle's game (Randle a good floor running Big).  Also give us a good op to see what Franc can do and where he fits in.  Can Franc handle 15 mins of backup PG a night v. 2nd units?  Can Franc slot in at SG next to LaBall and be effective for 10+ mins.  A very Big Backcourt, which Knick fans used to get excited about.
But Ball and Franc might be too weak a 3-point pairing, unless they can really disrupt on D.
Thibs likes D more than 3's.

Otherwise, I think RJB has more value to us than trade value to others teams.
He's young and still mostly potential with an NBA body. I doubt we could get enough for him, and teams likely want to wiat a year to see what he's got.
Title: Re: GSW
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 15, 2020, 08:05:11 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on November 15, 2020, 12:47:52 AM
BoZ, if Ball was such a sure thing, such a genius, why would GS do that trade?
Curry is 32, going on to 33 pretty soon. I’m sure they could coexist for a while, with plenty of minutes for Ball at the 1 or 2. Great guard rotation Curry-Ball-Klay.

It would certainly be about fit

Ball isn't really even central to their thoughts if they stay at and select at 2.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 15, 2020, 08:15:49 AM
I could put together a "what if we could have traded ________ for Doncic on draft day?" question.

Likely at the time you would have been less in favor of the mythical deal than you are now.

If management really loves/covets LaMelo, why would you scoff at this?

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 15, 2020, 09:51:51 AM
Steve Popper now reporting Knicks not interested in BALL or EDWARDS.  Also not too keen on HALIBURTON as well.

Trade down appears imminent.

Also hearing Van Vleet back to Raptors and Joe Harris too expensive for us, while Melo rumors to NY continue.

Paul, Barrett, Bullock, Carmelo, X.   Starting 5.

Draftees off bench.
Title: Luka
Post by: carlos123 on November 15, 2020, 09:56:09 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 15, 2020, 08:15:49 AM
I could put together a "what if we could have traded ________ for Doncic on draft day?" question.

Likely at the time you would have been less in favor of the mythical deal than you are now.

If management really loves/covets LaMelo, why would you scoff at this?

Big difference.

Doncic WAS A SURE THING, and I told you all so.

Anybody following Euro ball knew it too.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 15, 2020, 10:27:59 AM
So was Trae Young.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 15, 2020, 10:33:26 AM
Doncic still needs to take the next step.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 15, 2020, 10:49:41 AM
My guess is at the time you would not have been in favor of giving the #9 overall, the 36 overall and this year's #1 for the pick that became Doncic - not that Hawks would have done that anyway.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on November 15, 2020, 10:51:49 AM
Quote from: josh on November 14, 2020, 03:21:59 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on November 14, 2020, 02:55:27 PM
Yes, works for me.

Look, this site is getting Dicey. I'd love to keep in touch with everyone.


As I've said before. leave an email address as a comment at knicksmecca.blogspot.com just in case... it ain't going anywhere til I'm gone... so there's that.



This site isn't going anywhere, whether I step down as mod or not.

This was just a hiccup, barely even technical.

Did you get a note from me?

Oh.  I had gotten the impression that the Kingdom of Elba was in existential  danger, my bad.

Never mind.  Don't bother with plan B.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on November 15, 2020, 11:04:27 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 15, 2020, 09:51:51 AM
Steve Popper now reporting Knicks not interested in BALL or EDWARDS.  Also not too keen on HALIBURTON as well.

Trade down appears imminent.

Also hearing Van Vleet back to Raptors and Joe Harris too expensive for us, while Melo rumors to NY continue.

Paul, Barrett, Bullock, Carmelo, X.   Starting 5.

Draftees off bench.

Yes.  That would be advertised as Peaceful Memories Square Garden - the geriatric version of the Wild West Show.

I *do* think this is very possible, though.  Not sure this is the "competitive" type team Thibs is advertised to want, though.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 15, 2020, 11:53:13 AM
I HATED what the acquisition of Melo did to this organization over time.

But I will root very strongly for his efforts this year should he come in on a much lower, shorter deal

Dust off those #7s, folks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 15, 2020, 11:57:02 AM
https://www.essentiallysports.com/nba-news-ill-be-done-portland-trail-blazers-carmelo-anthony-drops-major-retirement-hint/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: josh on November 15, 2020, 12:43:04 PM
By the way, folks, if there is another outage of some sort here and you want to be kept in the loop about what is happening, you can drop me (or whomever takes over, should I leave) at [email protected].
Title: Re: GSW
Post by: bodiddley on November 15, 2020, 12:44:46 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 15, 2020, 08:05:11 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on November 15, 2020, 12:47:52 AM
BoZ, if Ball was such a sure thing, such a genius, why would GS do that trade?
Curry is 32, going on to 33 pretty soon. I’m sure they could coexist for a while, with plenty of minutes for Ball at the 1 or 2. Great guard rotation Curry-Ball-Klay.

It would certainly be about fit
Ball isn't really even central to their thoughts if they stay at and select at 2.

Fit but more so timeline.
GSW is trying to win now.
A 19 year old apprentice doesn't meet their needs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 15, 2020, 12:49:23 PM
A 19 year old apprentice doesn't meet their needs.


By apprentice do you mean someone who wont be good right away?

Good luck with that
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 15, 2020, 01:08:36 PM
Someone who will be learning their craft and the NBA.
Bottom line: GSW needs players they can rely on in the playoffs.

ESPn reporting that Lakes will trade Danny Green & the #28 pick for Schroder.
Not sure if that means CP3 likely to stay in OKC.
Or if Thunder will flip Green for something else.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 15, 2020, 01:15:58 PM
Bottom line: GSW needs players they can rely on in the playoffs.


Like the even younger Edwards....I think GS will be fine given their current roster plus who they can draft, even given a deal down.

But GS will still be looking to add vets, of course.

Tough west, no matter how you slice it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 15, 2020, 01:23:31 PM
ESPn reporting that Lakes will trade Danny Green & the #28 pick for Schroder.
Not sure if that means CP3 likely to stay in OKC.
Or if Thunder will flip Green for something else.


I'll take em both...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 15, 2020, 02:09:03 PM
If I were GSW, I wouldn't want to rely on Scurry-Klay & Dray supported by young uns Wiggins, Pascal, draftee (Edwards/Ball/WiseMan).

Not sure how much money they have or willing to spend to lure vets.
Before they were said to be trying to add Dwight on the cheap.
might get a Bullock type.  Really a thin team for now.

Again, I'd do the Wiggy/Love flip to add another solid vet.
Then just two key yute in Paschal/draftee.
Or trade the #2 for a solid vet.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 15, 2020, 02:11:38 PM
Quote
Steve Popper now reporting Knicks not interested in BALL or EDWARDS.  Also not too keen on HALIBURTON as well.

Yeah, why would the Knix want a quality G ... ?

Okongwu, Halliburton, Vassell are my choices.
And likely Okongwu goes Top 5.
One of TyH or Vassell should be there at 8.
Everyone seems to link NYK with Killer Hayes.

And yes, I'd flip Mitch for Ball.
Maybe for Edwards.

Check out these LaMelo transition passes in the video
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/30306095/lamelo-ball-holds-workout-front-warriors-hornets-pistons
And the interviewer gets TheMelo to open up a little.
I think the trick with LaMelo is to mention his family some, that's where he seems most forthcoming and engaged.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 15, 2020, 02:23:03 PM
Thursday 3 PM

That's the deadline for deciding on player contract options

TRADING season opens up at NOON MONDAY

Nice.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 15, 2020, 02:30:41 PM
If I were GSW, I wouldn't want to rely on Scurry-Klay & Dray supported by young uns Wiggins, Pascal, draftee (Edwards/Ball/WiseMan).


Right


(left out Looney. BTW)
Title: 2020 Mock Draft on ABC right now
Post by: Kam on November 15, 2020, 04:52:21 PM
They have the first round:

1.  Minny  - LaMelo Ball
2.  GSW.  - James Wiseman
3.  Hornet - Anthony Edwards
4.  Bulls.  - Deni Avdija
5.  Cavs.  - Obi Toppin

6.  Hawks - Isaac Okoro
7.  Pistons - Patrick Williams
8.  Knicks - Tyrese Haliburton
9.  WBT    - Onyeka Okungwu
10. Suns.  - Devin Vassell

11. Spurs  - Aaron Nesmith
12. Kings  - Killian Hayes
13. Pels.   - Saddiq Bey
14. Celts   - Kira LEwis
15. Magic  - RJ Hampton

16. Portland - Tyrese Maxey
17. Minny.   - Precious Achiuwa
18. Mavs.    - Aleksej Pokusevski
19. Nets.     - Cole Anthony
20. Heat.     - Jalen Smith

21. 76ers. - Malachi Flynn
22. Denver - Josh Green
23. Jazz.    - Theo Maledon
24. Bucks. - Desmond Bane
25. OKC.   - Jaden McDaniels

26. Celts.   - Leonardo Bolmaro
27. Knicks.  - Isaiah Stewart
28. Lakers.  - Tyrell Terry
29. Raptors - Zeke Nnaji
30. Celts.   - Xavier Tillman Sr.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 15, 2020, 11:01:24 PM
I hope we do better than that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 16, 2020, 01:37:36 AM
Great draft to Bo.
Gives us a choice of my 3 main realistic targets.
I think Okongwu is going to be special. 
TyH could be the next Beal, but better handle.
While Vassal fills one hole perfectly, giving us 3's & D from the wing.
(Even could consider Hayes, who fills a great need but also a risky pick on par with Franc and Knoxville).

I'm hoping as many of Toppin, Wise Man, Okoro and Pa Williams as possible go in the Top 7.
Hayes also.
I'm not expecting Okongwu to be there at 8.
More likely we get a choice of Vassal/Hayes/Okoro, which to me is an easy pick.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 16, 2020, 08:02:30 AM
So... trades happen today? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 16, 2020, 09:01:07 AM
So if you are Brooklyn can you really give up all of Dinwiddie, Prince, Allen and LaVert, plus picks, to get Harden?

You would still have Jordan and the ability to re-sign Harris. 
Bench would be mostly min deal vets.

Kyrie, James, Joe H, KD, DeAndre

Wins the East?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 16, 2020, 09:07:34 AM
Kyrie, James, Joe H, KD, DeAndre

Holy Shit, that would never work.
The defense would be a disaster; while the offense would implode.

No one likes playing with Kyrie or Harden for long -- remember that.
Would you want to be a vet role player on that squad?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 16, 2020, 09:23:52 AM
Long shot but deal with Warriors for the number 2 is said to possibly hinge on Knicks grabbing a veteran such as Jrue to FLIP to GS along with the #8 and other picks, taking back Wiggins in the process

So, do we want to look like this -

Ball
Barrett
Wiggins
X
Robinson

for starters?

Thibs likely says no.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 16, 2020, 10:42:06 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 16, 2020, 09:01:07 AM
So if you are Brooklyn can you really give up all of Dinwiddie, Prince, Allen and LaVert, plus picks, to get Harden?

You would still have Jordan and the ability to re-sign Harris. 
Bench would be mostly min deal vets.

Kyrie, James, Joe H, KD, DeAndre

Wins the East?

I detest Harden. His game, what he has done to the game, and what a choker, nonetheless, the Nets should do that deal in a second, tho trying to hold on to Allen if possible. Easy to fill in the gaps around that big three.


*** They are already all in on now, no way you don't go ALL THE WAY ALL IN. Fun to see Nash play with that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 16, 2020, 10:58:56 AM
Ball
Barrett
(Bullock)
Wiggins
Robinson

for starters

Fixed.

I really think we are keeping Reggie.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 16, 2020, 11:01:31 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on November 16, 2020, 10:42:06 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 16, 2020, 09:01:07 AM
So if you are Brooklyn can you really give up all of Dinwiddie, Prince, Allen and LaVert, plus picks, to get Harden?

You would still have Jordan and the ability to re-sign Harris. 
Bench would be mostly min deal vets.

Kyrie, James, Joe H, KD, DeAndre

Wins the East?

I detest Harden. His game, what he has done to the game, and what a choker, nonetheless, the Nets should do that deal in a second, tho trying to hold on to Allen if possible. Easy to fill in the gaps around that big three.


*** They are already all in on now, no way you don't go ALL THE WAY ALL IN. Fun to see Nash play with that.

yep - good analysis

Allen is looking to be the sweetener, the "if we had to" player they really prefer to keep.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 16, 2020, 11:02:57 AM
Dzanan MUSA to Detroit for Bruce Brown

Could be a nice piece for the Pistons
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 16, 2020, 11:07:27 AM
More Knicks possibles?

Not linked to any rumor - but WES MATTHEWS and KENTAVIOUS CALDWELL-POPE have turned down their player options with MIL and LAL, respectively.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 16, 2020, 01:26:54 PM
Crisis averted

Chris Paul headed to the suddenly interesting PHOENIX SUNS
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 16, 2020, 01:48:36 PM
Shams Charania: OKC has traded Chris Paul to Phoenix for Ricky Rubio, Kelly Oubre, Ty Jerome, Jalen Lecque and draft compensation, sources tell @TheAthleticNBA @Stadium. – via Twitter ShamsCharania

Since it was reported that Westbrook wants out, the Hornets have emerged as the most likely team to land him. Front office sources tell me Michael Jordan wants the 2016-17 MVP, which is unsurprising and understandable. Westbrook would put eyes on televisions and fans in the seats (once they’re able to safely return). Charlotte would win more games, too. But those same sources add that the Hornets won’t put the no. 3 pick in Wednesday’s draft on the table for Westbrook, so the organization is clearly not overly zealous to make a deal. – via Kevin O'Connor @ The Ringer

Mavericks star Kristaps Porzingis will not be ready when the NBA season resumes on Dec. 22, GM and President of Basketball Operations Donnie Nelson said Monday on 105.3 The Fan. – via radio.com
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 16, 2020, 02:35:20 PM
I'd be curious to see how Westbrook fares in HOUSTON should Harden be shipped off to New Jersey.

But CHARLOTTE or NEW YORK would also be fun.

Knicks playing "let's see how much his price comes down", since we have other avenues to improve.  Brentwood Mitch vs Leon "We're Doin' This" Rose.
Title: Other Rumors About Rumors
Post by: chipstern on November 16, 2020, 02:39:42 PM
Supposedly the Knicks rebuffed whatever offer the Celtics made for the #8 pick. 

Happy Chris Paul is going to be in Phoenix.  Apparently he has a strong bond with Coach Monty Williams, and unlike the Knicks, I was wont to suggest, the Suns are farther along in their evolution, vis a vis a strong core of evolving talent.

Knicks may have Barrett and Robinson.  Evolving talents. 

Suns have Booker.  A bonfide star. 

Plus Ayton, Saric, Bridges and Johnson. 

And kept this year's #10 pick [OKC received their 2022 #1]. 

Asd per the Knicks?

Poop is that they are not all in on Haliburton and may be picking up Payton's option.  Awful long range shooter and FT shooter, but very good distributor, penetrator and defender, so stay tuned.  Also, as far as FA options, again, Avery Bradley a good combo guard to have in a backcourt rotation. 

I suspect Dennis Smith is going to be dealt this week,despite the reports of Thibs' affection.   We shall see. 

Vassell, Okoro and Lewis in play. 

I like all of them, and would be happy with any of them, but agree with Bo "Yeah, I'd Trade Mitchell For A Bag Of Magic Beans" D, in that I am rooting for 3&D sharpshooter Vassell.  There may be some PGs with upside at #27.  Not Kira Lewis [he may just fall in the Celtics's lap], but talent.  And what of the diminutive G-Leaguer Jared Harper, already on board, however tentatively.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 16, 2020, 02:52:45 PM
NBA.com does a nice job with this

A look at MINNESOTA

https://www.nba.com/draft/2020/teams/MIN#/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 16, 2020, 03:32:29 PM
Knicks - and other teams


https://www.nba.com/draft/2020-draft-board
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 16, 2020, 03:35:50 PM
The Knicks still have a long way to go in their path back to relevance, with it now being seven years since they last reached the postseason. There's a new guy -- Leon Rose -- in charge and he's got some work to do. Rose has built out his front office and hired Tom Thibodeau as the team's new coach, but the Knicks still need more pieces for their young core, with it remaining unclear if they already have a foundational piece on the roster. RJ Barrett, last year's No. 3 pick, still needs to add some tools to his repertoire.

A Stat That Matters
11.2 -- The Knicks were outscored by 11.2 points per game from 3-point range. That's the second-worst discrepancy in the 41 seasons of the 3-point line.
-- John Schuhmann

The Way To Go
The Knicks need as many bites at the apple as they can get, and they should be willing/eager to make trades that bring in more picks or young players with potential. Their picks in the Lottery and at the end of the first round should be the best players available, and the work they put in to develop those players is just as critical as the work they put in to prior to making those selections



Under Contract
G: RJ Barrett
G: Wayne Ellington
G: Frank Ntilikina
G: Elfrid Payton
G: Dennis Smith Jr.
G/F: Reggie Bullock
F: Ignas Brazdeikis
F: Taj Gibson
F: Kevin Knox
F: Julius Randle
F: Kenny Wooten
C: Mitchell Robinson

Free Agents
G: Damyean Dotson (restricted)
G: Allonzo Trier (restricted)
F/G: Maurice Harkless (unrestricted)
F: Bobby Portis (team option)


Recent Draft History
2019: RJ Barrett (3), Ignas Brazdeikis (47)*
2018: Kevin Knox (9), Mitchell Robinson (36)
2017: Frank Ntilikina (8), Damyean Dotson (44), Ognjen Jaramaz (58)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 16, 2020, 03:40:42 PM
Of course they missed that Ellington, Payton, Gibson and Bullock, like Portis - are team options.

heh

"do a nice job" maybe should read "could do better"
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 16, 2020, 04:03:30 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 16, 2020, 03:40:42 PM
Of course they missed that Ellington, Payton, Gibson and Bullock, like Portis - are team options.

heh

"do a nice job" maybe should read "could do better"

Alonzo is gone.  Cutting him and Kadeem Allen loose were the first moves Rose made.  Replaced with Ex-Net Theo Pinson for reasons not altogether clear and PG Jared Harper. 

Dotson and Harkless are unrestricted. 

Of the team options, who, if any stay of Portis, Payton, Gibson, Ellington, Bullock? 

Two Way Contracts: PF Kenny Wooten and PG Jared Harper.

Yes, we need to do a lot better. 

PS: Paul?  I am sure Rose coveted him.  Not so sure Perry was all in, nor that we could've come up with assets Suns did.  Knox a nice piece with Gallinari likely out the door.  Randle?  Not sure that is the direction OKC is going in.  Look for them to shop Adams.

Rubio a great pickup in the short term for OKC.  So is Oubre, thought he is looking for a new contact, so stay tuned. 

PPS: I do not think we are all in on Westbrook.  Hornets make more sense. 

PPPS: Again, what second tier FAs might we pursue at PG.  Van Vleet would want a max.  Like him, but not sure he is worth a max.  Wish we could make a run at Rondo, but do not think he would ajudge us a good fit.  Again, Avery Bradley.  Jeff Teague.  Reggie Jackson. DJ Augustin. Elfred Payton. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 16, 2020, 04:26:16 PM
No

I meant NBA.com needs to do better

Thanks for the further notes of correction
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 16, 2020, 04:29:00 PM
I gave you the Teague deal

Don't like any of the others

Rondo may be headed to ATL though I guess we could pry him to NY with starter minutes
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 16, 2020, 04:31:25 PM
Doesn't matter if we had the assets for Paul.  His agent orchestrated the move.  He lands in a good spot

All those chiming in on CP3 and needing to win a title don't know him too well
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 16, 2020, 04:54:56 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 16, 2020, 03:40:42 PM
Of course they missed that Ellington, Payton, Gibson and Bullock, like Portis - are team options.

heh

"do a nice job" maybe should read "could do better"

They aren’t. They have partially guaranteed contracts. It’s not the same thing.

Is there anything you actually are good at in any way at all?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 16, 2020, 05:23:53 PM
Payton and Bullock guarantee is 1 mil a piece.

Ellington and Gibson get bupkus.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 16, 2020, 07:14:20 PM
Hayward to NY gains steam...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 16, 2020, 07:41:55 PM
Team camps - Dec 5
Preseason - Dec 11
(Westchester arena IS open)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 16, 2020, 08:21:19 PM
Jerami Grant is a free agent
Kris Dunn is a free agent
DerMarr DeRozen is not
Stan Johnson is not
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 16, 2020, 08:30:01 PM
How about D Rose for Smith and the 27?
Title: Me, answering as Chamaco
Post by: carlos123 on November 16, 2020, 08:33:55 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 16, 2020, 04:54:56 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 16, 2020, 03:40:42 PM
Of course they missed that Ellington, Payton, Gibson and Bullock, like Portis - are team options.

heh

"do a nice job" maybe should read "could do better"

They aren’t. They have partially guaranteed contracts. It’s not the same thing.

Is there anything you actually are good at in any way at all?

Fac - Is there anything you actually are good at in any way at all?

Cham - Many things, for example:

I was born in 1948, I'm very good at being born in 1948.

I post here (and there, and everywhere) more than anybody else. So much so that I actually use two names: Chamaco Cartero (that would be kidcarter8) and Chamaaco Cartero (that would be kiidcarter8, with double i).

I'm very good at updating my siggies, from "Liberate Portland" to "Pray for Biden" to "RIP ... whoever strikes my fancy", to name just a few.

I like to provoke other posters, except for carlos123 because I'm afraid he'll bite me or something, you never know with those Hispanics.

I like to contradict anything BoZ says.

That's just 5 things, but I could name many more.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 16, 2020, 09:58:39 PM
I can see taking Hayward. He’d be a nice fit with our pieces.

I also wouldn’t mind taking Dedmon and pick 50 from Atlanta so they have room to make some bigger moves. They’ve got a window where Young is cost controlled.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 16, 2020, 09:59:26 PM
Carlos, Kiid is secretly hoping you give him a hickey.
Title: Me, answering as Chamaco (2)
Post by: carlos123 on November 16, 2020, 10:48:00 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 16, 2020, 09:59:26 PM
Carlos, Kiid is secretly hoping you give him a hickey.

Fac - Kiid, are you hoping that carlos123 gives you a hickey?

Cham - I’d prefer one from Trumptin. Failing that, one from Vlad would be ok too. If I can’t get a leader, how about Jimmer or some other white person?
Title: Re: 2020 Mock Draft on ABC right now
Post by: Kam on November 16, 2020, 11:05:49 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 15, 2020, 04:52:21 PM
They have the first round:

1.  Minny  - LaMelo Ball
2.  GSW.  - James Wiseman
3.  Hornet - Anthony Edwards
4.  Bulls.  - Deni Avdija
5.  Cavs.  - Obi Toppin

6.  Hawks - Isaac Okoro
7.  Pistons - Patrick Williams
8.  Knicks - Tyrese Haliburton
9.  WBT    - Onyeka Okungwu
10. Suns.  - Devin Vassell

11. Spurs  - Aaron Nesmith
12. Kings  - Killian Hayes
13. Pels.   - Saddiq Bey
14. Celts   - Kira LEwis
15. Magic  - RJ Hampton

16. Portland - Tyrese Maxey
17. Minny.   - Precious Achiuwa
18. Mavs.    - Aleksej Pokusevski
19. Nets.     - Cole Anthony
20. Heat.     - Jalen Smith

21. 76ers. - Malachi Flynn
22. Denver - Josh Green
23. Jazz.    - Theo Maledon
24. Bucks. - Desmond Bane
25. OKC.   - Jaden McDaniels

26. Celts.   - Leonardo Bolmaro
27. Knicks.  - Isaiah Stewart
28. Lakers.  - Tyrell Terry
29. Raptors - Zeke Nnaji
30. Celts.   - Xavier Tillman Sr.

CBS Mock from today:

1.  Minny  - LaMelo Ball
2.  GSW.  - James Wiseman
3.  Hornet - Anthony Edwards
4.  Bulls.  - Obi Toppin
5.  Cavs.  - Deni Avdija

6.  Hawks - Tyrese Haliburton
7.  Pistons - Isaac Okoro
8.  Knicks -  Killian Hayes
9.  WBT    - Onyeka Okungwu
10. Suns.  - Saddiq Bey

11. Spurs  - Devin Vassell
12. Kings  - Aaron Nesmith
13. Pels.   - Kira Lewis
14. Celts   - Cole Anthony
15. Magic  - Patrick Williams

16. Portland - RJ Hampton
17. Minny.   - Precious Achiuwa
18. Mavs.    - Tyrese Maxey
19. Nets.     - Jalen Smith
20. Heat.     - Tre Jones

21. 76ers. - Theo Maledon
22. Denver - Isaiah Stewart
23. Jazz.    - Josh Green
24. Bucks. - Malachi Flynn
25. OKC.   - Jaden McDaniels

26. Celts.   - Leonardo Bolmaro
27. Knicks.  - Desmond Bane
28. Lakers.  - Aleksej Pokusevski
29. Raptors - Cassius Winston
30. Celts.   - Vernon Carey Jr

31. Mavs.  - Tyrell Terry
32. Hornet - Robert Woodard II
33. Minny - Xavier Tillman Sr.
34. 76ers - Cassius Stanley
35. Kings - Zeke Nnaji

36. 76ers - Elijah Hughes
37. WBT  - Nico Mannion
38. Knicks - Tyler Bey

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-mock-draft-2020-lamelo-ball-picked-no-1-by-timberwolves-james-wiseman-goes-no-2-to-warriors/ (https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-mock-draft-2020-lamelo-ball-picked-no-1-by-timberwolves-james-wiseman-goes-no-2-to-warriors/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 16, 2020, 11:55:58 PM
Interesting PHX move.
Everyone seems to move on from Rubio.
Not sure why PHX was shopping Uber-Kelly who had a breakout season.
But there was talk for a while now he was available.
Maybe just worried about his next contract.
Maybe other fit issues.

CPold - Book - Bridges - Cam Johnson - Ayton
I have no doubt CP3 will improve Booker and Ayton, so on that level alone it's probably worth doing.  And now they're playoff team.  But how good cna they be before Paul ages out of good.  And how long will that be.

PHX now has one of the best backcourts.
A quality athletic pup at C.
Bridges a very good defender.
Cam John a sniper.

Be interesting to see who they keep (Ayton? Tank? Saric?) and who they bring in to fill in the gaps.  Clearly need some vet help.
________________________________________________________________

I guess OKC is going for the full rebuild.  So Adams should be on the block.
Gallo said to be leaving.
SHai - Rubio - Uber - Dort - Bazley
Need some shooters and a PF if Gallo leaves.
Really Gallo is a terrific fit for what they have.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 17, 2020, 12:09:29 AM
The only Mitch trade I've made is to get the #2 pick and hopefully a franchise PG in LaMelo.

But sure, I include RJB and Mitch in trades if we can upgrade and especially get a quality starting PG.  But I don't think RJB has enough trade value for us to move him.

At least my trades have the Knix giving up genuine pieces/value, as opposed to the swindles some concoct where the Knix sweeten a deal by add in Iggy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 17, 2020, 12:14:26 AM
Holiday to Bucks for Bledsoe plus picks.
Covington to Portland for Ariza plus picks.
Title: Bucks bag Bogdon Bogdanovic
Post by: Kam on November 17, 2020, 01:30:23 AM
Bucks bag Bogdon Bogdanovic for big bucks in a sign-and-trade deal.

MILWAUKEE front office is all-in on keeping Giannis happy.

So two big Knick targets Booker and Giannis seem to not be going anywhere anytime soon.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 17, 2020, 04:31:17 AM
Jrue Holiday, Bogdan Bogdanovic, Khris Middleton, Giannis Antetokounmpo, Brook Lopez.
Wow.
The way they use Lopez, that's 4 two-way players, and Bog Monster isn't bad on D.
That's also Giannis surrounded by 4 guys who get bang in a 3.
Great job.
Now they need to fill in the bench.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 17, 2020, 10:03:38 AM
Wonder how much Bogx2 contarct is for/

Well, the draft game I like to play is Identify the Potential Busts in the Top 10.
Cause there always are a few.
I'm going to go with Okoro and Hayes.
A defender needs to develop a shot or he is a liability.
Hayes will have a lot of adjustment to make.  And very few Euro Points do well in the NBA.
Tony Parker, Calderon, maybe Rubio is 3rd best, followed by Shroder ...
Did I forget anyone?

Toppin might be my third guess.
Might be one of those players who was terrific in college and his game doesn't translate well.
Turnstile defender, iffy/okay 3-ball.  Team fit might be very important for Obi.
I don't think he'll be a bust but rather a possible disappointment.
Otoh, the CBSports mocker says Toppin is his Rook of the Year fave.

Motivation will be key for WiseMan.  He's saying all the right things about working hard and trying to get to the right situation, but he'll need to put in the work.  Could he be a con or disappoint?  I have no idea.  He'll probably be good but raw and take some time to develop.
Sort of in between Ayton and Mitch ...

Who are the Top 10 Sure Things:
I'd go with Edwards and Avdija.
Edwards has the NBA body and attacking mentality.  Maybe a 6'5" Donovan Mitchell
Avdija seems to have solid skills and feel for the game and could fit on any team.
High floor. 
I also think Okongwu will make a smooth transition.
Seems one of those guys who will be better in the NBA than college.  NBA ready.

TheMelo and TyH have skills and should become quality starters with all-star potential.
Vassell seems solid as well, as a 2-way player.
Depends how they adjust to the NBA.  But a quality starter is what you want Top 10.

Hayes makes me nervous and keep being linked to the Knickers.
Okongwu possibly dropping into our range is very intriguing.
Again, I'm hoping we have a selection of Okongwu, TyH and Vassell.
And hopefully we can get a PG at 27 -- Tre Jones, Malachi Flynn, Cassius Winston.
Or a shooter.  NYK has been linked to Desmond Bane.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 17, 2020, 11:10:18 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 17, 2020, 04:31:17 AM
Jrue Holiday, Bogdan Bogdanovic, Khris Middleton, Giannis Antetokounmpo, Brook Lopez.
Wow.


Bud gonna win 60+ (prorated down for covid sched) with that for sure.
But don't think it gets Giannis the chip.
Pretty sure you still need two stars for that and I only see one.


***f' if they didn't give up a bucketload for a very incremental improvement in Jrue. Think I would have held off a wee bit, lots of real stars floating a round now and in the future, and umpteen draft pick 'n swaps is usually enough to land 'em
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 17, 2020, 11:43:57 AM
DiVincenzo is a great add by Sac'to.   Will do much of what Bogdan did, maybe more.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 17, 2020, 11:45:05 AM
As for Bucks, they improve as Celtics snooze.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 17, 2020, 12:37:14 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on November 17, 2020, 11:10:18 AM
Bud gonna win 60+ (prorated down for covid sched) with that for sure.
But don't think it gets Giannis the chip.
Pretty sure you still need two stars for that and I only see one.

While not stars, Jrue, Middleton & Lopez have all been all-stars.
Just a tier below full-blown stars.  Both Lopez and JRue have been the main man on their team, which I always like for my high-level role players (such as an Iguodala or David West).

Have to see how they fill in the bench, but you'd think guys would want to play there since they're now a top contender, likely one of the favorites.

As for incremental, Bledsoe faded in the playoffs two years, while JRue was locking down Dame Lillard last year.  Also, I think Bledsoe needs the ball, while JRue is a better off-ball and complementary ballhandler, allowing Giannis to do his thing plenty.  JRue is the better player on both ends and the better fit.
Title: So....
Post by: chipstern on November 17, 2020, 01:11:54 PM
So, Okoro's a bust in the making.

Waiter, check please. 
Title: Re: So....
Post by: facilitatorn on November 17, 2020, 03:54:50 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 17, 2020, 01:11:54 PM
So, Okoro's a bust in the making.

Waiter, check please.

He could be just fine or he could be a Stanley Johnson or MKG.
Title: Re: So....
Post by: chipstern on November 17, 2020, 04:12:45 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 17, 2020, 03:54:50 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 17, 2020, 01:11:54 PM
So, Okoro's a bust in the making.

Waiter, check please.

He could be just fine or he could be a Stanley Johnson or MKG.

Projecting him as a bust is jive. 

And YES, I want Vassell. 

PS: The fact that the Knicks have done NOTHING STUPID, is promising.  By Sunday we will know for sure. 

PPS: And YES, I agree with BoD that Vassell is the 3&D wing I want running with RJB. 

PPPS: I believe the Knicks might be blowing smoke at #8, as regards, WE ARE NOT INTERESTED IN HALIBURTON.  Not likley he drops that far, but maybe, MAYBE, the Knicks are propegating disinformation , as in, hey Atlanta, take Okoro at #8, hey Detroit, take Patrick Williams at #7. 

SOMEONE WE ARE NOT EXPECING IS GOING TO FALL TO #8.

Still time for Ainge to offer us Marcus Smart and their three #1s for the #8 pick. 

PPPPS: Fuck Gordon Hayward. 
Title: Re: So....
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 17, 2020, 04:22:20 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 17, 2020, 03:54:50 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 17, 2020, 01:11:54 PM
So, Okoro's a bust in the making.

Waiter, check please.

He could be just fine or he could be a Stanley Johnson or MKG.

I would do more research on this if I were you.  May be some reasons Okoro turns out better - if you see Johnson and Kidd-Gilchrist predraft work.

I also wouldn't shovel dirt on those 2 yet though I agree whoever takes Okoro wouldn't want to wait so long
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 17, 2020, 04:23:51 PM
Chip - don't worry

We are not taking Okoro. You will not need to defend the pick.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on November 17, 2020, 04:41:57 PM
My latest Westbrook speculation;  https://knicksmecca.blogspot.com/2020/11/westbrook.html (https://knicksmecca.blogspot.com/2020/11/westbrook.html)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 17, 2020, 04:54:16 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 17, 2020, 04:23:51 PM
Chip - don't worry

We are not taking Okoro. You will not need to defend the pick.

Not even sure Okoro will be there. 

At this point, while I am pulling for Vassell, I wonder if the Knicks would reach for Kira Lewis. 

My feeling is that Vassell would potentially be the best match for RJ moving foward as part of a 2-3 tandem.  Suspect Bullock and Ntilikina joins them. 

See Kevin and Iggy as 3-4. 

Randle and Wooten as 4-5.   

Not sure what the Knicks thinking is regarding Smith and Payton. 

I would like to see us get Jeff Teague.  Not sure how down he would be for the Knicks. 

PG Jared Harper has a two-way contract. 

Our pick at #27 becomes very interesting.  Some PG/Combo guard talent will be there.  If PF Jaden McDaniels falls to us, hard to see Knicks passing on him. 

Who knows. 



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on November 17, 2020, 05:35:51 PM
Quote
PPPPS: Fuck Gordon Hayward.

sounds like there's a S&T being worked on.

supposedly a few teams interested in Gordo the Indestructible.

I like him-but Keerist he had some bad luck.

Quote
Still time for Ainge to offer us Marcus Smart and their three #1s for the #8 pick.

There's still time for Trump to concede the election gracefully and beg forgiveness to the American people for being a fucking psycopathic murderous fascist D-bag.

I'm not sure on that trade Chip. Seems a little lopsided. Plus i really like Smart. He's like a good single-malt scotch, not for everyone, too much can give you a headache, but used responsibily you can get a real nice buzz.

Trump's apology probably comes first.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 17, 2020, 05:50:53 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on November 17, 2020, 05:35:51 PM
Quote
PPPPS: Fuck Gordon Hayward.

sounds like there's a S&T being worked on.

supposedly a few teams interested in Gordo the Indestructible.

I like him-but Keerist he had some bad luck.

Quote
Still time for Ainge to offer us Marcus Smart and their three #1s for the #8 pick.

There's still time for Trump to concede the election gracefully and beg forgiveness to the American people for being a fucking psycopathic murderous fascist D-bag.

I'm not sure on that trade Chip. Seems a little lopsided. Plus i really like Smart. He's like a good single-malt scotch, not for everyone, too much can give you a headache, but used responsibily you can get a real nice buzz.

Trump's apology probably comes first.

Kiid has already castigated me for a one-sided pornographic fantasy.

GUILTY. 

Of course you like SMART. 

Not the ultimate PG, but a solid facilitator who has upped his outside shooting, and is a dynamic defender and the consummate competitor. 

Knicks fans would worship him. 

Given the dicey nature of Kemba's knee, no, I cannot fathom why Danny would gift him to the Knicks. 

But for me, that is what it would take, plus the three #1 picks for #8. 

I like Hayward's game.  Good cat, but snake bit physically, and a ridiculous contract. 

PS: Plus the karma.  Walt Perrin, now part of the Knicks brain trust, prevailed upon the Jazz to pick him...WITH THE SECOND OF TWO #1 PICKS FROM THE MARBURY TRADE, which they picked up from Phoenix, as part of a deal to absorb Tom Chambers' shitty contract.  BAD Karma. 

PPS: Again, the fact that the Knicks have done nothing truly stupid or reactively short term in thinking since April is consoling.  Their coaching and player development and front office and scouting moves were all solid.   We will know more by Sunday.  In any event, we would have jumped on a Westbrook deal in the past.  Probably still on the table, but am not feeling much enthusiasm. Front office people have the same obligations as physicians...DO NO HARM. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on November 17, 2020, 06:22:30 PM
Quote

Of course you like SMART.

Not the ultimate PG, but a solid facilitator who has upped his outside shooting, and is a dynamic defender and the consummate competitor.

Knicks fans would worship him.

Given the dicey nature of Kemba's knee, no, I cannot fathom why Danny would gift him to the Knicks.

But for me, that is what it would take, plus the three #1 picks for #8.

I like Hayward's game.  Good cat, but snake bit physically, and a ridiculous contract.

I've talked up Smart for several years here, (usually following a kid jab) he's an acquired taste and has gained more of a following as more folks appreciate the intangibles he brings.

He's like a middle-linebacker on defense, he sees the entire field and can play the run or pass. and he's a special teams demon.

He's a vlast to watch, even the time you shake your head and ask, "why Marcus, after he bricks three 3s in a row.

I wouldn't trade him for the #8 straight-up, plus he's on a very good contract. He's a bargain. I can't see a good reason to trade him unless as part of some mega-package bringing back huge value.

I like Gordo too, smart court savvy, usually makes the right play, and he's only got the 1 year left at $34MM, so his contract isn't that bad. I do wonder what he thinks his next contract will be. That may be the sticking point. I could see something like a 3 year extension, 3-66, plus the $34 for a 4-100 type deal either as a S&T or as a 6th man semi-PG wing in Boston.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on November 17, 2020, 06:32:31 PM
Chip as an aside, I saw an NBA draft value matrix, similiar to the NFL chart that value picks and while there are a few iterations,

the rough value of the 14th, 26th and 30th picks is about the 4th pick.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 17, 2020, 06:52:29 PM
I like the idea of a defensive core built around Frank Vassell and Mitch. Vassell would be a good get at #8.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 17, 2020, 07:07:44 PM
Not sure what the Knicks thinking is regarding Smith and Payton.


DSJ right now is our starting PG

I am willing to give that a whirl if we do not add a free agent.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 17, 2020, 07:11:01 PM
But for me, that is what it would take, plus the three #1 picks for #8.


Chip's about as smitten with Vassell as he was with Renaldo Balkman.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 17, 2020, 07:11:44 PM
And Tony Douglas
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 17, 2020, 07:13:00 PM
Draft Q of the day -

What if the Knicks did NOT draft Pat Ewing?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 17, 2020, 08:42:34 PM
Alan Hahn -

8 and 27 to Boston for 14, 26 and 30
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 17, 2020, 08:56:09 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 17, 2020, 08:42:34 PM
Alan Hahn -

8 and 27 to Boston for 14, 26 and 30

Meaningless conjecture. 

Ain't happenning. 

Alan & Wally's PICKS?

Haliburton or Vassel at #8

Jaden McDaniels at #27

Sign me up. 

PS: Color me needy not greedy, but if Celtics let the Knicks KEEP #27. Then #26 & #27 could [and/or] #30 and #37 could be translated into other picks?  Ain't happenning, but only way I would dance with Ainge.  Have your chuckle Kiid. 
Title: Wally & Alan
Post by: chipstern on November 17, 2020, 08:59:43 PM
Wally speaking in favor of going slow and foundational. 

Cap space needn't be spent for spending's sake. 

Alan speaking about Knicks getting their young players some veteran free agents for cover while Payne and Bryant are growing them. 

God, I hope so. 

PS: KEEP #8
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 17, 2020, 09:25:20 PM
Jay Bilas's Best Available

#4 - Haliburton
#10 - Cole Anthony



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 17, 2020, 09:30:27 PM
NBA schedule


Knicks will play East teams 3 times each (no extra divisional load)
Will play the 15 West teams twice each
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 17, 2020, 09:33:15 PM
It got much more likely that Cleveland takes a wing. Kevin Porter in a small heap of trouble. Fight + weed + firearm situation.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 17, 2020, 09:37:21 PM
NBA Draft Preview Show - talking Warriors

1)  Take the pick at 2
2)  deal the pick for a veteran
3)  DEAL DOWN TO LOWER PART OF TOP TEN AND DRAFT A CHEAPER MORE EXPERIENCED (than Wiseman) PLAYER

UH-HUH

LaMelo comes to NY
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on November 17, 2020, 10:06:31 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 17, 2020, 07:13:00 PM
Draft Q of the day -

What if the Knicks did NOT draft Pat Ewing?

We would have been cheated out of the David Stern fixed the draft for the Knicks conspiracy theories.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 17, 2020, 10:13:32 PM
"League sources" now relaying that Knicks will select Obi Toppin if he is there at number eight.

- The Ringer
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 17, 2020, 11:21:35 PM
The zillion NBA free agents


https://www.nba.com/freeagents/2020-tracker
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 18, 2020, 12:39:27 AM
Not sure why, but Knix have been said to be high on Toppin for weeks now.
Hopefully Toppings and WiseMan will be long gone by the time we pick.
Pushing more Guards & Wings down our way.

Hayes is the consensus NYK pick in most mocks.
I sure hope the Knix don't go with the riskiest pick in the Top 14.
What are peeps thoughts on Hayes?


Vassell seems like a great fit on NYK.  A two way wing, 3&D, with range, long arms, defensive shops.

TyH is intriguing as he adds some much needed ballhandling and passing, along with the shooting.
And we need G's.  He's really had terrific hype in the draft leadup.
I've seen mentions of him possessing elite passing vision and very good defense.
Early on in the draft process he was considered okay/competent in these areas.

Hayes had some peak hype a couple weeks back, but seems to have faded some (down to #8 on most mocks)
Okongwu has been slipping some the past week.  Earlier I saw him as high as 3rd, and a certain Top 5.  Now some mocks have him available at 8.
Gonna be a damn good player.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 18, 2020, 08:56:15 AM
https://www.nbadraft.net/nba-mock-drafts/
has a rather crazy mock.
Patrick Williams 4th.
Knic taking Okoro with Avdija, Hayes and Vassal all available.
Avidja dropping to #11?!?

Kira Lewis going one spot ahead of Hayes (9/10)
Nesmith dropping to 26.
Has the Knix taking Malachi #27, which I like.
Tre Jones #48?

Maybe this is a "generate discussion" kind of mock?
Title: WHO THE FUCK KNOWS
Post by: chipstern on November 18, 2020, 09:38:39 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 18, 2020, 08:56:15 AM
https://www.nbadraft.net/nba-mock-drafts/
has a rather crazy mock.
Patrick Williams 4th.
Knic taking Okoro with Avdija, Hayes and Vassal all available.
Avidja dropping to #11?!?

Kira Lewis going one spot ahead of Hayes (9/10)
Nesmith dropping to 26.
Has the Knix taking Malachi #27, which I like.
Tre Jones #48?

Maybe this is a "generate discussion" kind of mock?

They are all GENERATE DISCUSSION internet click bait. 

I will be SO HAPPY when conjecture yields to reality. 

Kind of hard to see Avdija dropping.  Or Toppin.  Or Haliburton.  Or Okoro. 

Knicks taking Okoro?  He's a stud.  There are worse things we could do.  Like take Jordan Hill. 

Don't sleep on Kira Lewis at #8. 

Vassell would make me happy. 

But then I own a dozen pairs of rose colored glasses and am easy to please. 

Just....

DO NO HARM. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2020, 09:47:57 AM
Not sure why, but Knix have been said to be high on Toppin for weeks now.


Need points to win
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2020, 09:50:26 AM
Celtics offered Hayward and a #1 for Jrue.  Not close.

Danny also called everyone offering KEMBA for picks to enhance the Holiday offer. 

Damaged goods.

Meanwhile Dwight Howard insinuating he will not take a minimum vet deal in LA

Knicks beckon?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2020, 09:53:35 AM
I've seen mentions of (Haliburton) possessing elite passing vision and very good defense.


Makeup is the number one asset Ty possesses - not that he doesnt have skilz

Teams get burned by makeup all the time.  We'll see. 

New York can eat up good kids.  Seems like Tyrese is a midwest team fit.
Title: Malachi
Post by: chipstern on November 18, 2020, 09:55:32 AM
San Diego State alumni.

Like Kawhi.

And my daughter and son-in-law. 

Why Toppin?

Oh, I don't know. 

Because he is a Genuine STRETCH BIG with size and length and an NBA Body who shoots nearly 40% from 3-point range and is a presence on the boards?  Blake Griffin 4.3?  Taj Gibson?  Amare?  Doesn't play D?  Right. Just like Okoro will never have a shot.  Players grow and evolve.  One would think that Thibs might have to sign off on such a pick, no? 

Would seem to presuppose some travelling music for Randle and/or Knox.  Or NOT.  In the era of positionless hoops, instead of Taj Gibson platooning with Mitchell Robinson, why not Randle? 

PS: Watched the second Cleveland game from November of 2019, with, admittedly, Love & Thompson both out, and the Knicks played D and really creamed them.  Randle played his ass off down low and outside, shooting with range, boarding and passing. DJ showing some flashes of game, and some frustration.  Signing Payton was as helpful to Dennis as signing Morrie was to Knox.  Aborted a developmental year.  Let alone Fizdale evolving Mudiay at the cost of time for Frank, and the Knicks then letting him walk? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 18, 2020, 09:56:06 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2020, 09:50:26 AM
Celtics offered Hayward and a #1 for Jrue.  Not close.

Danny also called everyone offering KEMBA for picks to enhance the Holiday offer. 

Damaged goods.

Meanwhile Dwight Howard insinuating he will not take a minimum vet deal in LA

Knicks beckon?

No. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2020, 09:56:12 AM
It was great to see Bilas and company praise, highlight PAYTON PRITCHARD out of Oregon.  Likened PP to..........



FRED VAN VLEET

Can we go non point at 8 and 27 then get Pritch at 38?  I am guessing he is gone.  But I'd take 2 guards - no prob.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2020, 09:58:46 AM
Okoro/Vassell - or Nesmith in a deal down

Then CAREY

Then PRITCHARD.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2020, 10:03:56 AM
Nice to see the Mudiay reference

46/35/76 shooting last year, at age 23.

13.0 PER was down from his career best 14,6 with NY in '18-'19.  But a player that can still improve, surely.

Shattered career highs in defensive win shares and win shares per 48 minutes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2020, 10:15:54 AM
Current ranks


I have Edwards and Ball 1 and 1a right now - slight nod to the off guard

Aftyer the one neg I saw on Anthony Edwards, that GS leaders Thompson and Curry wouldnt want to "babysit" the youngest player in this draft, it has been nothing but topa ccolades for AE.

Last night's interview recounted how Edwards lost his mom and his grandmom within 3 months - and how he stayed in Georgia to be sort of a second pops to his newborn nephew.  Very tight family

It was hilarious seeing old clips of Edwards as a 10-year old footballer, already a MASS of young kid towering over his teammates/foes as he rumbled from the backfield (AE thought he'd go football til changing course at age 15 or so)

So, the LOTTERY

1/2 - Edwards/Ball
3 - Avdija
4 - Wiseman
5 - Toppin
6 - Okoro
7 - Okongwu
8/9 - Achiuwa/Smith
10- Haliburton
11 - Williams
12/13 - Vassell/Nesmith
14 - Terry/Anthony
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2020, 10:24:27 AM
BILAS (lots of stuff here)


https://espnpressroom.com/us/press-releases/2020/11/transcript-2020-nba-draft-preview-with-college-basketball-analyst-jay-bilas/


Q: One of those guys that might be down the list, we’ve talked about him before, Cole Anthony. It’s funny, he came back a lot of guys would have done that, he obviously didn’t have a great year, but are you surprised when you see these mocks that have him going in the early twenties, late teens? What do you make of that?

Jay Bilas: Yes. I make of it that in today’s world it’s a right now thing. You know, Cole was a top five talent coming into last year. I didn’t know anybody that didn’t have him in the top five among prospects for this year’s draft. He got injured and then he played on a team that didn’t perform at a high level. So it was a losing North Carolina team that every time you turned around, they’re losing one point games. It’s just a miserable year from a win loss standpoint. But I give them a tremendous amount of credit, like he never shut it down and he kept coming back and playing his tail off like he never gets tired and you know now can we quibble about Okay could you make some better decisions here like You know, it would have been better if he passed it here or, you know, you take some challenge shots. Yeah, but he’s going to get a lot better there. And those are those you know those issues are at the forefront for Anthony Edwards, too. So I’m a believer in Cole, Anthony. I think he’s going to do very well as a pro. And if somebody grabs him at 12 or 10 or whatever, they’re getting the top five talent at that level.
Title: Knicks Make A Move
Post by: chipstern on November 18, 2020, 10:54:42 AM
And it has Walt Perrin & Johnny Bryant written all over it. 

Marc Stein: The Knicks have announced a trade for the No. 23 pick in tonight’s draft and the draft rights to Ante Tomic from Utah by sending the No. 27 and No. 38 picks to the Jazz – via Twitter TheSteinLine
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2020, 10:55:23 AM
Q: Can you just elaborate on Isaac Okoro’s game where team will get if they draft him. And also is there a good maybe current NBA comparison out there?

JB: Yeah, of course. I’m terrible at the comparison thing. I apologize. I’ve never been any good at that a coral is long armed wing, very athletic very strong and he’s an outstanding defender. I mean, he can switch out and guard anybody one through four and that’s a valuable skill in the NBA because NBAs a lot about switching now. You know, the court gets so spread out and all that. You’ve got to be able to guard space if he can do that with a strength and athleticism. And his lateral quickness. And then he’s excellent and attacking the basket off the dribble because you got to the free. I don’t remember exact numbers, but he got to the free throw line ton He’s not a great shooter. That’s something he needs to improve upon to refine his mechanics and become a consistent perimeter shooter but he’s a good passer. Great personality as a basketball player. And he is ultra-competitive. Never backs down and you know i think you know you’ll often hear you know so and so’s a winner, well, he’s had a winning profile, this whole career. And so I’m very high on him. I would not be surprised. Like, he’s the type of player, I’m not saying they’re going to do this, but he’s the type of player that the Warriors would grab. Now what they do that at number two when Wiseman’s available, I don’t know, but he’s like a Warrior type of player. And so that means he can play for anybody. He’s legit
Title: Re: Knicks Make A Move
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2020, 10:56:39 AM
Quote from: chipstern on November 18, 2020, 10:54:42 AM
And it has Walt Perrin & Johnny Bryant written all over it. 

Marc Stein: The Knicks have announced a trade for the No. 23 pick in tonight’s draft and the draft rights to Ante Tomic from Utah by sending the No. 27 and No. 38 picks to the Jazz – via Twitter TheSteinLine


NICE

I believe I called this one
Title: Ante Tomic
Post by: chipstern on November 18, 2020, 10:57:08 AM
Croatian Center who will be 34 in February. 

https://www.basketball-reference.com/international/players/ante-tomic-1.html (https://www.basketball-reference.com/international/players/ante-tomic-1.html)

Projection is he stays in Europe or is signed as a cap sweetner in some future trade. 

Interesting. 

Knicks would seem to want their pick of second tier PGs in the mid-first.  Some nice players. 

Something tells me this is a prelude to another deal, either to move up or down. 

Knicks might think someone unexpected is going to fall into the 20s.  Or they have another deal on tap. 

Coach Payne really loves Kentucky's Tyrese Maxey. 

PG Tyrel Terry from Stanford and wing Aaron Nesmith from Vanderbilt can both shoot the lights out. 

Tonight is going to be frenzied. 

INTERESTING. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2020, 11:08:42 AM
CBS

Toppin at 8 over Okoro
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 18, 2020, 11:20:05 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2020, 11:08:42 AM
CBS

Toppin at 8 over Okoro

Toppin played some 5 in college. 

Dolan might still authorize the Knicks to purchase a fresh second rounder. 

Or perhaps the thinking is that we are going to have A LOT OF YOUNGSTERS, and three rookies in 2020-2021 might be pushing it. 

I still do not see the Cavs passing on Toppin, although Okoro might very well tempt them. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 18, 2020, 11:29:08 AM
Quote
8/9 - Achiuwa/Smith

You're the only one that has that.
So those are your preferred options for the Knix at #8?

Knix moving up to #23.  Very nice!
That puts us in contention for a PG or shooter.
Tre Jones, Malachi, Maledon
Or a Bane, Maxey
Or anyone who drops ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 18, 2020, 11:46:18 AM
Okoro?  Toppin?
We're not interested in two-way players?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2020, 11:52:12 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 18, 2020, 11:29:08 AM
Quote
8/9 - Achiuwa/Smith

You're the only one that has that.
So those are your preferred options for the Knix at #8?

Knix moving up to #23.  Very nice!
That puts us in contention for a PG or shooter.
Tre Jones, Malachi, Maledon
Or a Bane, Maxey
Or anyone who drops ...

I trust management

But yes.  Smith out of Maryland or Achiuwa out of Memphis.  Likely we could safely trade down for one of them. 

Give Celts the 8 for the 14?  Not sure I would go that low.

Would they give us Langford?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2020, 11:55:08 AM
Very likely we moved to 23 to select the best PG left, knowing we are going with a forward at 8.

Could it be Williams?  Sure.

Williams, then Terry?  I would be ok with that
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2020, 12:10:39 PM
Latest:

Fight between NY, Boston and Detroit for Cleveland's #5

Knicks would take Toppin

What do we offer?

Frank?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 18, 2020, 12:17:13 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 18, 2020, 11:46:18 AM
Okoro?  Toppin?
We're not interested in two-way players?

Christ

They're NOT two way players? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2020, 12:24:02 PM
Charlotte really wants Wiseman

Minnesota could take him then extract best they can get from Hornets or Bulls after Chicago moves up to 2
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 18, 2020, 12:29:36 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 18, 2020, 12:17:13 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 18, 2020, 11:46:18 AM
Okoro?  Toppin?
We're not interested in two-way players?
They're NOT two way players?

No.
Plus Okoro is a bad fit with RJB.
Toppings a bad fit with Randle.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 18, 2020, 12:47:33 PM
As for Muddy, Clarkson supplanted him.
After playing sparingly in the first 3 playoff games, Mud was benched the last 4.

Though I just checked in on on site that said UTA should dump Conley (opt-out), re-sign Clarkson and Muddy, and have Mud as the starting PG.
I thought it was rather crazy.
Maybe more of a fan site than "expert" site.

Mud is still very inconsistent and erratic.  Turns 25 in March.
Title: Re: Knicks Make A Move
Post by: Kam on November 18, 2020, 01:30:13 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2020, 10:56:39 AM
Quote from: chipstern on November 18, 2020, 10:54:42 AM
And it has Walt Perrin & Johnny Bryant written all over it. 

Marc Stein: The Knicks have announced a trade for the No. 23 pick in tonight’s draft and the draft rights to Ante Tomic from Utah by sending the No. 27 and No. 38 picks to the Jazz – via Twitter TheSteinLine


NICE

I believe I called this one


Bad trade to make now.  Should lay the groundwork and execute if you need to while the draft is happening.  The guy you want might slip to 27 and then at  38 you might see another first round talent slip.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2020, 01:31:49 PM
Plus Okoro is a bad fit with RJB.


Stop posting the same stuff

What else u got?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2020, 01:33:05 PM
Mud is still very inconsistent and erratic. 


He's really not.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2020, 01:34:15 PM
Kyrie to HOU makes more sense than sending 4 guys there.

Keep Dinwiddie, LaVert and Allen, adding Harden to go with Durant.

Kyrie would just love this

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2020, 01:36:46 PM
Ryan McDonough:

"Knicks may draft a PG AND add one in free agency"

- exactly what I have said earlier - dont expect the rookie to start

"If Knicks dont draft a PG, look for them to almost definitely add one via deal of FA"

- I kind of agree with this now - though earlier I figured a re-sign of Elfrid would suffice.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2020, 01:42:43 PM
Rockets looking for a third team in

Would Knicks take Dinwiddie, LaVert, etc.......picks included

and give up

Barrett, Robinson plus some of their extra option type guys (Bullock, etc)

Rockets get

Mitch
RJ
Bullock
plus
plus

Nets get Harden
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 18, 2020, 01:57:30 PM
Knick fans would become Nets fans.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 18, 2020, 02:06:12 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2020, 01:42:43 PM
Rockets looking for a third team in

Would Knicks take Dinwiddie, LaVert, etc.......picks included

and give up

Barrett, Robinson plus some of their extra option type guys (Bullock, etc)

Rockets get

Mitch
RJ
Bullock
plus
plus

Nets get Harden

WTF?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2020, 02:19:28 PM
No good for who?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2020, 02:32:54 PM
Okoro the big decliner here

But I could see this mock playing out

Knicks get Vassel. Celts Smith.  Nets Anthony

https://www.nba.com/bulls/features/sam-smiths-final-2020-nba-mock-draft
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 18, 2020, 02:37:35 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2020, 01:31:49 PM
Plus Okoro is a bad fit with RJB.

Stop posting the same stuff

True or False?

And stop telling people what to post and what to do.
If you haven't noticed people don't exactly follow your advice, and you come off like more of an asshole than usual.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2020, 02:55:09 PM
False

Nine to ten players get minutes.  If they are effective it works.

A). Redundant is the most overly used word on this board over the years
B). You don't even near know the makeup of the rest of the team this year let alone the rest of Barrett's tenure
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on November 18, 2020, 03:38:35 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2020, 01:42:43 PM
Rockets looking for a third team in

Would Knicks take Dinwiddie, LaVert, etc.......picks included

and give up

Barrett, Robinson plus some of their extra option type guys (Bullock, etc)

Rockets get

Mitch
RJ
Bullock
plus
plus

Nets get Harden

I like it.

In fact I think Houston is crazy not to pul the trigger on it with the Nets.  Its a nice core of players plus some picks.

Allen = MR

Barrett is the questionable loss here.
Title: Re: Knicks Make A Move
Post by: Kam on November 18, 2020, 04:54:46 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2020, 10:56:39 AM
Quote from: chipstern on November 18, 2020, 10:54:42 AM
And it has Walt Perrin & Johnny Bryant written all over it. 

Marc Stein: The Knicks trade for the the draft rights to Ante Tomic


NICE

I believe I called this one

I believed I called it when I said the Knicks were about to go ... Atomic

(get it?)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 18, 2020, 05:08:53 PM
Oh lord, Kam, that was like watching Dennis Smith get stripped at half court.

Tomić was a multiple all star in the top Spanish league, put up good statistical seasons in twenty four ish minutes of work. He doesn’t block shots or shoot 3’s. I don’t think he ever jumps, but he’s a  big guy’s big guy for what it’s worth.

8, 23, & DSJ to Chicago for 4. Pick Deni. That’s the move up I’d look for.
Title: Chamaco makes stuff up
Post by: carlos123 on November 18, 2020, 05:30:55 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2020, 10:56:39 AM
Quote from: chipstern on November 18, 2020, 10:54:42 AM
And it has Walt Perrin & Johnny Bryant written all over it. 

Marc Stein: The Knicks have announced a trade for the No. 23 pick in tonight’s draft and the draft rights to Ante Tomic from Utah by sending the No. 27 and No. 38 picks to the Jazz – via Twitter TheSteinLine


NICE

I believe I called this one

Chamaco believes he called this one.

HE ALSO WON THIS ELECTION, BY A LOT!
Title: Heh
Post by: chipstern on November 18, 2020, 05:49:54 PM
The Boston Celtics held exploratory talks that would send Marcus Smart to the Golden State Warriors for the No. 2 pick in the 2020 NBA Draft recently, league sources told The Action Network Wednesday. – via Matt Moore @ Action Network
Title: Re: Heh
Post by: bankshot1 on November 18, 2020, 06:04:04 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 18, 2020, 05:49:54 PM
The Boston Celtics held exploratory talks that would send Marcus Smart to the Golden State Warriors for the No. 2 pick in the 2020 NBA Draft recently, league sources told The Action Network Wednesday. – via Matt Moore @ Action Network

I had heard that GS wanted to trade #2 for a player to slot into a 17.2M TPE, Marcus is ideal for them, exactly the kind of player they would want to be their new Iggy.,
And as the story goes, Danny asked for more than the #2, GS tossed around some other suggestions-and nothing came of it. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 18, 2020, 06:06:07 PM
It doesn’t mean they’ve stopped batting ideas back and forth.
Title: Re: Heh
Post by: chipstern on November 18, 2020, 06:12:26 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on November 18, 2020, 06:04:04 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 18, 2020, 05:49:54 PM
The Boston Celtics held exploratory talks that would send Marcus Smart to the Golden State Warriors for the No. 2 pick in the 2020 NBA Draft recently, league sources told The Action Network Wednesday. – via Matt Moore @ Action Network

I had heard that GS wanted to trade #2 for a player to slot into a 17.2M TPE, Marcus is ideal for them, exactly the kind of player they would want to be their new Iggy.,
And as the story goes, Danny asked for more than the #2, GS tossed around some other suggestions-and nothing came of it.

Geez, I thought Danny was smarter than that. 

Greedy MF.  You'd think the CELTICS would have had to sweeten things up with one of their #1s. 

Hey, what do I know. 

PS: Breaking.  The Sixers traded Al Horford, the #34 pick and a future #1 to OKC for Danny Green. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on November 18, 2020, 06:16:48 PM
76ers get a nice TPE on that Horford trade, maybe they can use it to get Smart, or package it with Simmons (or whoever) in the rumored Harden trade.
Title: Re: Heh
Post by: bankshot1 on November 18, 2020, 06:35:18 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 18, 2020, 06:12:26 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on November 18, 2020, 06:04:04 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 18, 2020, 05:49:54 PM
The Boston Celtics held exploratory talks that would send Marcus Smart to the Golden State Warriors for the No. 2 pick in the 2020 NBA Draft recently, league sources told The Action Network Wednesday. – via Matt Moore @ Action Network

I had heard that GS wanted to trade #2 for a player to slot into a 17.2M TPE, Marcus is ideal for them, exactly the kind of player they would want to be their new Iggy.,
And as the story goes, Danny asked for more than the #2, GS tossed around some other suggestions-and nothing came of it.

Geez, I thought Danny was smarter than that. 

Greedy MF.  You'd think the CELTICS would have had to sweeten things up with one of their #1s. 

Hey, what do I know. 

PS: Breaking.  The Sixers traded Al Horford, the #34 pick and a future #1 to OKC for Danny Green.

Chip, if the 76ers don't GET SMART,there is  "Still time for Ainge to offer us Marcus Smart and their three #1s for the #8 pick."


(https://travsd.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/portrait.jpg?w=723)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 18, 2020, 06:49:27 PM
Danny Green has moved more often this week than u-haul.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 18, 2020, 06:51:30 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 18, 2020, 05:08:53 PM
Oh lord, Kam, that was like watching Dennis Smith get stripped at half court.

It's gonna be that kind of night fac.
Title: Telegram From Thibs To BoD
Post by: chipstern on November 18, 2020, 06:54:51 PM
"Thanks as always for your learned and thoughtful observations.  We appreciate your input and enthusiasm."

"Having said all that, you need to get over yourself, son.  Isaac Okoro is 500% more man, and in every way shape and form, precisely what I am looking for in a Knick.  As you may have read in the press, I have a 'crush' on the young man, because he epitomizes what Knicks culture needs to be." 

"PS: Red Holzman says hello." 

"PPS:  Don't be surprised if Cleveland grabs Okoro at #5."
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 18, 2020, 07:07:30 PM
From your lips, Chip.

Nice by OKC, who are losing Gallo. Adams, Horford, Oubre, SGA, Rubio. They still have Dort, Diallo, and that lanky rookie from last year. I’d give them a decent chance at treading water.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 18, 2020, 07:19:43 PM
23 for Oubre? Apparently the Thunder are putting him out there. Darius Basely I think is the kid who showed potential on OKC.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2020, 08:00:37 PM
I realize Celts might save some salary but nobody they take at #2 could give them short term what Smart does

Shooting long term now is silly.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2020, 08:21:25 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on November 18, 2020, 06:16:48 PM
76ers get a nice TPE on that Horford trade, maybe they can use it to get Smart, or package it with Simmons (or whoever) in the rumored Harden trade.

Sixers decided not to make Simmons available to HOU
Title: Top 3
Post by: Kam on November 18, 2020, 08:28:12 PM
MIN - Edwards
WAR - Wiseman
CHA - Ball

Guess Charlotte now has less need for Westbrook.  Less pressure on Knicks to move their best assets for Russ. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 18, 2020, 08:31:02 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 18, 2020, 08:56:15 AM
https://www.nbadraft.net/nba-mock-drafts/
has a rather crazy mock.
Patrick Williams 4th.
Maybe this is a "generate discussion" kind of mock?

Maybe not.
Title: Knicks are on the clock
Post by: Kam on November 18, 2020, 08:48:54 PM
Everyone available for the Knicks...

Toppin
TyH
Vassell
Avidja

Who ya got?
Title: Toppin
Post by: carlos123 on November 18, 2020, 08:53:37 PM
Oh Lord!
Title: Re: Toppin
Post by: Jack Straw on November 18, 2020, 08:55:30 PM
Thibs is okay with Obi...hmmmm.....
Title: Haliburton stock
Post by: Kam on November 18, 2020, 09:08:12 PM
Haliburton stock is dropping faster than Halliburton stock
Title: That was for fac
Post by: Kam on November 18, 2020, 09:08:49 PM
I'm feelin it
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on November 18, 2020, 09:12:44 PM
Who has a CAA connection is at 23
Title: Exactly
Post by: carlos123 on November 18, 2020, 09:18:03 PM
Quote from: Jack Straw on November 18, 2020, 09:12:44 PM
Who has a CAA connection is at 23


alder almo
@alderalmo
·
9h
Part of Obi’s CAA team is Sam Rose, the son of the #Knicks president.
Title: 2020 NBA Draft live grades: Pick-by-pick tracker, results, analysis
Post by: carlos123 on November 18, 2020, 09:23:20 PM
By Gary Parrish  & Kyle Boone

12. Sacramento Kings: PG Tyrese Haliburton, Iowa State

The best prospect available on the board. I love him here for the same reasons I loved him at No. 6 to Atlanta. He can play behind De'Aaron Fox or right next to him. He's 6-5, can play off the ball or as a true point guard. He fills two needs and is the best player on the board. Can't do better than this. Grade: A+
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on November 18, 2020, 09:26:35 PM
haven't seen anyone show any love for Obi at 8, but we await Chip's analysis....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 18, 2020, 09:29:58 PM
ESPN mentioned that Obi was projected Top 5 so it was a miin-steal he was there at 8. 

TyH won't be a starter as long as Fox and Heild are there.   Maybe the Knicks poach one of them.

Some shooting talent seems to be dropping.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 18, 2020, 09:30:23 PM
Quote from: Jack Straw on November 18, 2020, 09:26:35 PM
haven't seen anyone show any love for Obi at 8, but we await Chip's analysis....

By Gary Parrish  & Kyle Boone

8. New York Knicks: PF Obi Toppin, Dayton

The Knicks obviously need a lot, but that fan base will love this guy. They desperately want something to be excited about. Toppin can be that. I would not have taken him first overall, but he should not have dropped this far and should be the favorite for rookie of the year. Grade: A+
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on November 18, 2020, 09:32:52 PM
see how good the Knicks asst. coaches are - they will need to work on Obi's D
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 18, 2020, 09:35:21 PM
Obi is a minor upgrade over Portis at a good deal less money from day 1. I see him as a reserve till he can show viability on D.

Mitch Obi Knox RJ Frank. That might be the wave of the future...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 18, 2020, 09:37:50 PM
Might OBI be a Knox replacement?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2020, 09:38:53 PM
Quote from: Jack Straw on November 18, 2020, 09:26:35 PM
haven't seen anyone show any love for Obi at 8, but we await Chip's analysis....

heh

scroll back
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2020, 09:40:12 PM
Anthony three picks after Tyrese

AFTER playing on a bum leg.

Congratulations, GREG.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 18, 2020, 09:53:38 PM
Who is better Cole Anthony or Colby White?
Title: Brooklyn gets
Post by: Kam on November 18, 2020, 09:56:46 PM
Sheeps head Bey
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2020, 10:09:30 PM
No

They got Landry Shamet

Bey to Detroit

Kennard to Clippers
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2020, 10:11:03 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 18, 2020, 09:37:50 PM
Might OBI be a Knox replacement?

Knox sudden move to a 4 is the funniest thing in recent memory - especially when the 3 slot was wide open.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 18, 2020, 10:11:58 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 18, 2020, 09:56:46 PM
Sheeps head Bey

Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2020, 10:09:30 PM
No

They got Landry Shamet

Bey to Detroit


Aint that a Shamet
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 18, 2020, 10:12:16 PM
killin it fac!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2020, 10:13:07 PM
Tyrell Terry may just be there for us at 23.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 18, 2020, 10:14:19 PM
or RJ Hamptons
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2020, 10:16:55 PM
 I will stick with CAREY
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 18, 2020, 10:17:06 PM
Zeke Nnaji looks like if Channing Frye and Jordan Hill had a baby.   


Prove me wrong.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 18, 2020, 10:19:01 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2020, 10:16:55 PM
I will stick with CAREY

The blue devils may carey but I hope the knicks don't.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2020, 10:23:00 PM
Someone please tell Jay Williams - 2 guys do not make a logjam of bigs

Bolmaro - sweet.  Great passer, I have heard.

Title: The Knicks Select
Post by: Kam on November 18, 2020, 10:23:17 PM
Pablo's Prigioni's ghost.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2020, 10:23:53 PM
Took him from Boston, no doubt - which is a bonus
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on November 18, 2020, 10:24:33 PM
easy there, the night is still young, 25 & 33, say good night Leandro
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2020, 10:25:08 PM
Heh

Never mind

We get 25 and 33 instead
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2020, 10:26:04 PM
We still pick ahead of Boston
Title: Sweet trades
Post by: Kam on November 18, 2020, 10:26:46 PM
So we start the day at 27 and 38 and wind up with 25 and 33
Title: Welp
Post by: Kam on November 18, 2020, 10:27:14 PM
There goes the Hamptons
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2020, 10:29:41 PM

QUICKLEY!!!!!!!!!!


Love it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 18, 2020, 10:32:28 PM
Quickley was my 4th PG overall. Nice.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2020, 10:34:36 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 18, 2020, 10:32:28 PM
Quickley was my 4th PG overall. Nice.

Likely a 2 for us off the bench
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2020, 10:36:18 PM
So far....

we get a guy I never thought would be available and a guy I brought up early in our draft discussions as a possible at 27

Celts get the wizard Pritchard
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2020, 10:39:48 PM
Now, do we want three rookies or maybe do we deal the 33 for future considerations or take a Euro to stash?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2020, 10:41:27 PM
The misses of some of the mocks remind me of the election polling
Title: We finally have a smart FO
Post by: Kam on November 18, 2020, 10:41:50 PM
Utah traded the 23 for 27 and 38
Knicks traded the 23 for 25 and 33

Utah a doofus
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2020, 10:46:02 PM
T'Wolves gon' be goooood.

McDaniels....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 18, 2020, 10:46:13 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2020, 10:39:48 PM
Now, do we want three rookies or maybe do we deal the 33 for future considerations or take a Euro to stash?

Desmond Bane would be a nice get.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2020, 10:47:18 PM
Bo says

where's my defender?

Heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 18, 2020, 10:47:25 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 18, 2020, 10:32:28 PM
Quickley was my 4th PG overall. Nice.

The Kentucky / CAA connection alive and well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2020, 10:48:24 PM
So many athletes to choose from, I know -

but cant get over Carey still being available
Title: Chip
Post by: chipstern on November 18, 2020, 10:52:05 PM
Me

HAPPY
Title: Celtics got the shooters
Post by: Kam on November 18, 2020, 10:58:42 PM
Nesmith
Pritchard
Bane
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 18, 2020, 11:00:03 PM
If Boston is taking three rookies no reason we should not.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2020, 11:02:07 PM
Bane is going to Memphis
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2020, 11:03:56 PM
Start the chant (for 33)


VER-NON!   VER-NON!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2020, 11:07:15 PM
OK.  Happy Jordan gets him.....
Title: DO
Post by: chipstern on November 18, 2020, 11:11:06 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2020, 11:07:15 PM
OK.  Happy Jordan gets him.....

Pretty damn nice consolation prize in Daniel Oturo. 

Productive night.  Puposeful wheeling and dealing. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2020, 11:12:24 PM
Oturu profile:

https://www.nba.com/timberwolves/2020-nba-draft-profile-daniel-oturu
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2020, 11:14:31 PM
Last guy to do 20-10 with 2 blocks per game was....



MIKE SWEETNEY

(Sorry)
Title: Exhale
Post by: chipstern on November 18, 2020, 11:15:17 PM
Now it's time for all the Stepehn A. Smith's and GMs in training to check in with how we blew it. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 18, 2020, 11:16:23 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2020, 11:14:31 PM
Last guy to do 20-10 with 2 blocks per game was....



MIKE SWEETNEY

(Sorry)

Hey, take heart.  He looks like Jordan Hill's big brother
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 18, 2020, 11:24:24 PM
Should Kevin Knox, Dennis Smith, and Mitchell Robinson be nervous about Toppin, Quikley, and Oturo?

Might the Knicks draft selections been greasing the skids on a trade of the former trio?

World Wide Wes-B-R-O-O-K?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 18, 2020, 11:42:31 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 18, 2020, 11:24:24 PM
Should Kevin Knox, Dennis Smith, and Mitchell Robinson be nervous about Toppin, Quikley, and Oturo?

Might the Knicks draft selections been greasing the skids on a trade of the former trio?

World Wide Wes-B-R-O-O-K?

Perhaps...Perhaps NOT. 

Why is everyone so hot to trot to include Mitchell Robinson in trade scenarios. 

One of the few feel good, non-fuck up stories, the best thing to come out of the Melo Trade. 

Keeps getting better, so yeah, let's imbibe the BoD my trades fantasies are more tangible than yours Kool Aid and put him in the Trevor Ariza Clown Car and trade him. 

Yes, Kam, I understand you are not endorsing, just wondering out loud. 

Though clearly some moves are on their way, what with all of the team option contracts coming up, and free agency. 

Free agency?

If I had my druthers, and World Wide Wes' table at Chassen's, I would be putting some money at Rajon Rondo's doorstep, as opposed to flushing all of our cap space down to China on RW, much as I love him. 

Rondo would give us what we have not had since Jason Kidd...A COACH ON THE FLOOR. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2020, 11:43:24 PM
I'd keep Robinson and Barrett now.
Title: Yam Madar
Post by: Kam on November 18, 2020, 11:43:48 PM
Celtics just took Ya Mother
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2020, 11:47:32 PM
Rondo is trying to get to the Clippers


Teague?  Dragic?

Clarkson and Rivers the combos we like.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 18, 2020, 11:54:21 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 18, 2020, 11:16:23 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2020, 11:14:31 PM
Last guy to do 20-10 with 2 blocks per game was....



MIKE SWEETNEY

(Sorry)

Hey, take heart.  He looks like Jordan Hill's big brother

Traded to Clips for Detroit’s 2023 2nd rounder.

Mitch Wooten Taj
Randle Obi
Bullock Knox Iggy
Barrett Quickley DSJ
Frank Payton

We have to add about thirty million in salary to this. That’s two open slots, assuming we don’t shift any more bodies. Obi and Manny replace Portis and Ellington, so we might as well cut ties with both players.

I’d talk to FVF and JaMychal Green as soon as FA opened.

Also I’d see what it would take to bring back Harkless.
Title: Fac
Post by: chipstern on November 19, 2020, 12:12:20 AM
Curious Trade

Daniel we hardly knew ye....

Mitch WootenTaj
Randle Obi
Bullock Knox Iggy
Barrett Quickley DSJ
Frank Payton

Not cutting them, Fac.

Just think you may be assuming too much.  We shall see.  I think Bullock is a keeper.  Taj and Elfrid?

My sense of things, in the positionless era, is that this is how things potentially break down.

[5] Robinson

[4-5] Randle, Wooten

[3-4] Toppin, Knox, Brazdeikis

[2-3] Barrett, Bullock, Ntilikina

[2-1] Smith, Quigley, Harper

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/jared-harper-12.html (https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/jared-harper-12.html)

And remember, we signed 5'11" PG Jared Harper to a 2-way contract, which is why we sent Kadeem Allen packing.  He and Wooten are our two ways.  And Theo Pinson is still floating around, replacing Alonzo. 

So....Gibson, Portis, Bullock, Ellington, Payton....Wooten, Pinson, Harper. 

Who might we pursue in Free Agency? 

Is Bogdonavich viable?  That sign and trade with the Bucks has seemingly falled apart.  Rondo a long shot I would admit.  Have heard Clippers and Hakws floated.  Kiid floated Teague and Clarkson. 
Title: TOODLE-LOO Oturu
Post by: Kam on November 19, 2020, 12:19:16 AM
After drafting Minnesota center Daniel Oturu with the No. 33 pick, the Knicks sent the selection to the Clippers in exchange for a 2023 second-round pick

BUT WHY THO?  What are the chances Detroit's 2nd round pick in 2023 pick is in the top 3 picks of the 2nd rd?

Is the 2023 draft something special?  How does anyone know that?   
Title: Re: TOODLE-LOO Oturu
Post by: carlos123 on November 19, 2020, 12:34:11 AM
Quote from: Kam on November 19, 2020, 12:19:16 AM
After drafting Minnesota center Daniel Oturu with the No. 33 pick, the Knicks sent the selection to the Clippers in exchange for a 2023 second-round pick

BUT WHY THO?  What are the chances Detroit's 2nd round pick in 2023 pick is in the top 3 picks of the 2nd rd?

Is the 2023 draft something special?  How does anyone know that?

WHY?
Just taking a page out of Trumptin’s playbook.
No particular reason, just do stuff.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 19, 2020, 12:59:09 AM
It was pretty nuts not to take a flyer on Woodard or Bey. Thibs might not want to over do the youth thing. We’ll see how it turns out.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 19, 2020, 01:25:37 AM
Uh, did Knix actually improve?

Quickley sounds intriguing.  A 3&D G.
I think he was always in the 17-25 range, so I didn't look into him at all.
Better size than Malachi or Tre.
Give the FO credit for moving up to get a better selection at 23/25 rather than 27.

But I don't get ditching the #33 pick.
Otoro didn't make any sense for NYK.
But Maledon, Tre Jones, Ty Bey, Woodard all seem to have some promise.

Woodard sounds like one of those 3&D wings that drop to the 2nd round and then have a solid career.
Knix could really use a defensive SF.

A C- draft
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 19, 2020, 01:55:29 AM
So Knix take Toppings instead of Avdija, TyH, Vassell.
Just wow.
Avdija touted as Luka's Israeli cousin.
Would have seemed a good fit as a genuine SF with all-around skills.
Also fairly plug and play as he's already been a solid pro.

The late risers Pa Williams and Okoro went 4 & 5.
TopDog, Avidja and TyH were the lotto droppers.

The Knix needed to take kiid's advice and trade down once ObiT was in hand.

Toppings?  TopDog?  ObiT?
At leats his name is great for knicknames ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 19, 2020, 02:17:34 AM
Klay Thompson injury:
Warriors fear significant Achilles injury, MRI scheduled for Thursday

Depressing News.
Hopefully he's okay.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 19, 2020, 02:50:44 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 19, 2020, 01:55:29 AM
So Knix take Toppings instead of Avdija, TyH, Vassell.
Just wow.
Avdija touted as Luka's Israeli cousin.
Would have seemed a good fit as a genuine SF with all-around skills.
Also fairly plug and play as he's already been a solid pro.

The late risers Pa Williams and Okoro went 4 & 5.
TopDog, Avidja and TyH were the lotto droppers.

The Knix needed to take kiid's advice and trade down once ObiT was in hand.

Toppings?  TopDog?  ObiT?
At leats his name is great for knicknames ...

I’m going with ObTop.

I prefer Deni to Obi in terms of general profile and fit, but we’ll see what we get. He has to find a way to keep up on D or we won’t see much. He’s got everything you want in his offensive bag.

We wanted shooting. Obi hit at 39% or thereabouts. Quickley was around 42%.

I don’t hate rolling the last pick forward and keeping some room for free agents.

All in all, I’d give this draft a B.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 19, 2020, 03:13:59 AM
I actually will give the Knicks an A- and would've been an A if they had not flipped a high 2nd rounder for a who knows what 2nd rounder in 3 years.

The reason I give them an A/A- is because they knew who they wanted and executed the draft perfectly. 

1.  They did not deal assets away just to move up and by staying put (they must've extensively scouted the other teams drafting before them with knowledge of who they liked) they had their choice of Toppin, Avidja, TyH, and Vassell.  The Knicks knew someone they wanted would drop.  So they executed the #8 perfectly.  We may not like who they picked as much as we would've liked the other names mentioned, but we're just reading the tea leaves and don't know from draft write-ups who is going to be better in the long run.  Lot's of teams passed on the other names mentioned too.   

2.  The deal up from 27/38 to 23 then deal down to 25/33 netted them the guy they had targeted as maybe being unavailable at 27 (Iman Quikley) and a future 2nd rd selection.  They showed up the Utah Jazz who could've had the 25 and 33 and 38 for their 23 but instead wound up at 27 and 38 to show for it. 

We might have taken different players. but you cannot say the Knicks were outmaneuvered or lost out on anyone.  By the end of the night Leon Rose and co walked away with the two assets they coveted (and as of yesterday probably didn't have confidence they had the ammunition to attain) .  So it was really a great job in draft plan execution.  Again we can quibble about who we think was a better pick but the Knicks went out and got their targets and didn't weaken their stockpile of assets to do so -- in fact picking up a future 2nd.

Can't complain tonight that the Knicks got played.  You might think they played themselves and that's your choice.  But they played the draft and other teams perfectly.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 19, 2020, 05:01:41 AM
I went mostly with CBSports for my draft info.

And Jack Maloney there has a love/hate relationship with the Knix picks:

Quote
8. New York Knicks: PF Obi Toppin, Dayton

The Knicks obviously need a lot, but that fan base will love this guy. They desperately want something to be excited about. Toppin can be that. I would not have taken him first overall, but he should not have dropped this far and should be the favorite for rookie of the year. Grade: A+
&

Quote
25. New York Knicks (via DEN): SG Immanuel Quickley, Kentucky

He's the reigning SEC player of the year and shot 42 percent from 3-point range, but this is nearly 30 spots higher than I expected. His upside just does not match this place in the draft, but he could be a good shooter if nothing else. Grade: D+

The second lowest grade he gave -- his draft report card was almost all A's & B's -- with only PHX taking a Center @ #10 lower.

I had basically the opposite reaction.
But Quickley is completely new to me.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 19, 2020, 05:52:28 AM
Quote from: Kam on November 19, 2020, 03:13:59 AM
Again we can quibble about who we think was a better pick but the Knicks went out and got their targets

Quibble over the actual selection, but the process was impeccable ...

Kind of funny.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 19, 2020, 10:22:37 AM
Toppin/Avdija is something I hope we dont need to discuss for years

Good morning all

Kam - No Oturu - because WE DIDNT WANT TO KEEP 3 ROOKIES

So... what's this about Bogdonavic?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 19, 2020, 10:30:44 AM
The second lowest grade he gave -- his draft report card was almost all A's & B's -- with only PHX taking a Center @ #10 lower.


Smith will be a stretch 4 in Phoenix.  They have a center.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 19, 2020, 11:41:28 AM
Knicks will pick up the Bullock option today, as expected.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 19, 2020, 11:47:46 AM
Waiting to see if Knicks management gets grilled (by media) on Avdija and point guard pass.

Also - Undrafteds starting to roll in.  Yurtseven of Georgetown to OKC, for instance.  We will surely have a couple of those invited to camp.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 19, 2020, 11:58:18 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 19, 2020, 05:52:28 AM
Quote from: Kam on November 19, 2020, 03:13:59 AM
Again we can quibble about who we think was a better pick but the Knicks went out and got their targets

Quibble over the actual selection, but the process was impeccable ...

Kind of funny.

Remember the 2009 draft where Curry gets selected one spot before Hill.   Were you laughing then?  The process matters.  Execution matters.   Shows we aren't a joke.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 19, 2020, 12:01:49 PM
Fac's first rounder Killian Tillie signs with the Grizzlies
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 19, 2020, 12:12:44 PM
In other news -

I will be setting up a Yahoo fantasy league, with keepers

Anyone here will be free to join, then I will open it up to outsiders.

Free, of course.
Title: Chamaco’s League
Post by: carlos123 on November 19, 2020, 12:15:53 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 19, 2020, 12:12:44 PM
In other news -

I will be setting up a Yahoo fantasy league, with keepers

Anyone here will be free to join, then I will open it up to outsiders.

Free, of course.

You sure? Even me??? 😁
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 19, 2020, 01:00:39 PM
So....

how much do we wish to offer Malik Beasley (newly named RFA) - or Jordan Clarkson?

Or do we just throw Quickley out there 25-30 minutes?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 19, 2020, 01:06:28 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 19, 2020, 11:58:18 AM
Remember the 2009 draft where Curry gets selected one spot before Hill.   Were you laughing then?  The process matters.  Execution matters.   Shows we aren't a joke.

And Minnesota got their PG targets -- Rubio and Flynn -- right ahead of Scurry ...

Selection and evaluation remain key.
We still could have had DeRozan, Jrue or Jennings instead of Doofy Hill.
(fwiw, I was against Jennings; interested in JRue, didn't know DeMar).

As for this draft, I think 11-14 will be seen as a nice run of players that should have gone higher.  Vassal, Halliburton, Kira, Nesmith.
Seems most years there's a few wings that go in the late lottery, who should have gone higher.  Wing shooting and D seem to get slightly undervalued, while a couple Bigs and a PG go too high.

19-21 might be another outperforming run -- Bey - Achiuwa - Maxey
The #30 pick usually turns out well -- BOS tapped Bane supposedly an elite shooter and projected around 25-30.
Usually 3-5 2nd rounders should have been much higher and become starters even.
Woodard?  Tyler Terry? Tre Jones -- though he's probably more a long-term solid backup.  One of the Cassiuses (Cassiui?) in the 50's?
Deep draft.  Could be one of the better 2nd rounds.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 19, 2020, 01:18:37 PM
As for this draft, I think 11-14 will be seen as a nice run of players that should have gone higher.  Vassal, Halliburton, Kira, Nesmith.
Seems most years there's a few wings that go in the late lottery, who should have gone higher.  Wing shooting and D seem to get slightly undervalued, while a couple Bigs and a PG go too high.


As Bilas said yesterday...

A very deep draft of GOOD players

No surprise at all that 11-14 will be able to play in this league for quite some time.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 19, 2020, 01:40:50 PM
Best picks - given their slots


3 - BALL
8 - TOPPIN
9 - AVDIJA
10 - SMITH
15 - ANTHONY
20 - ACHIUWA
26 - PRITCHARD
32 - CAREY
43 - JONES
55 - WINSTON
58 - REED
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 19, 2020, 01:53:15 PM
Knicks decline options on Portis and Ellington and WAIVE Payton and Gibson.

There is interest in bringing back Taj and Portis.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on November 19, 2020, 02:10:16 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 19, 2020, 01:53:15 PM
Knicks decline options on Portis and Ellington and WAIVE Payton and Gibson.

There is interest in bringing back Taj and Portis.

What a load of crap. Not good enough to be has beens.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 19, 2020, 02:14:03 PM
Doubt we want Portis back.
Elf maybe.
or we freed up money to bang an offer to FVV ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 19, 2020, 02:19:50 PM
I am giving you what is being reported

I was a pretty big Payton supporter by analytics on him turned out to be worse than I imagined.

I think we punt there.  I think Dennis Smith Jr is the current starting NY Knicks point guard - and even Thibodeau will realize he can be OK with this for the time being if a Knicks-positive signing or trade does not come to fruition

Will Harper make the team, as constructed?  Possibly.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 19, 2020, 02:26:43 PM
It'll be a big year for RJB (and Knox) to prove what they've got and how they are coming along.

No idea what to expect out of Jr. Smith.  Hard to see handing him the keys, since he was a disaster last year.  But if he's on the roster, I'd like to see him get significant minutes and be given an opportunity to sink or swim.

Randle's days are numbered. But he could be the starting PF and a mentor this year.  But he'll be shopped mid-season and again in the Summer.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 19, 2020, 02:50:54 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 19, 2020, 01:40:50 PM
Best picks - given their slots


3 - BALL
8 - TOPPIN
9 - AVDIJA
10 - SMITH
15 - ANTHONY
20 - ACHIUWA
26 - PRITCHARD
32 - CAREY
43 - JONES
55 - WINSTON
58 - REED

Haliburton?
Title: Yin Yang [With Apologies To PHAROAH]
Post by: chipstern on November 19, 2020, 03:12:28 PM
I find myself aligning with Kam & Facil post-draft, while parting company on a number of conclusions but also seeing eye to eye on some with the Almighty & Prescient BoD, long may he rain on any and all parades.

FIRST: Do NO Harm.  Surely things that can be debated, and some legitimate head scratching & second guessing, but nothing debased or abjectedly stupid, especially in light of front office moves over the past 20 years. 

SECOND: From the diplomatic perspective, some interesting alliances and partnerships, among our competitors and worthy adversaries, pulling off deals with Utah, Minneapolis, Oklahoma City and Los Angeles that appear to have been mutually beneficial.  Nobody got fleeced, no one got dressed up in a French Maid's outfit and bent over a straight back chair.  And among the enduring alliances laid out, again, subject to review and second guessing, a clear alliance/predilection for CAA relationships and the KENTUCKY CONNECTION. 

THIRD: Close to the vest calculations.  Seemingly nothing was leaked to dumbskis in the press, although our infatuation with Toppin was plainly in view, while the Quickley trade/draft pick was a pleasant surprise, although I was on the phone pulling for Maxey and Harmpton with forum alumni E-Mann when both went a pick before us, but we both knew that with Morey and Doc in Philly that Maxey was not dropping to us at #23, and cursed when RJ went like low hanging fruit to Milwuakee just before us at #24, although I believe Quickley was a done deal.

FOURTH: The Mystery Of The #33 Pick.  Among the second guessing and consternation, one might hazard some speculation, with or without evidentiary back-up.  A] The trade-up for #23 > #27-#38 would seem to have been earmarked for a possible trade down for the #5 pick for either Okoro or Toppin.  B] The Trade-down for #25-#33 > #23 might have been cover for any number of possible present-or-future deals hertofore unknown or which failed to materialize.  In the end, as per forum head scratching as to why we would have passed on such ohmyGODtheyarestillTHERE low-hangingfruit as Maledon, Woodard and Jones, well, we may indeed be second guessing those for a generation, but some cards clearly have yet to have been played, and just as clearly our #33 big man pick was selected for the Clippers.  Perhaps the backup slot for Mitchell Robinson is being reserved for Kenny Wooten and/or Gibson/Portis should either of them be re-enlisted at a cheaper price.  Perhaps. 

FIFTH: LOW HANGING FRUIT?  No matter what we did at #8, we were going to be second guessed by friends and adversaries alike.  Washington couldn't have been happier when DA fell in their laps, as they have Wagner and are looking to re-up Bertans at the 4-5, so a nice hybrid 3-4-2 to go with 3-4, Hachimura is surely matzoh from heaven, but they might have been just as giddy had Toppin fallen down to them.  I was a long-time enthusiast for Haliburton and Vassell, and respectfully disagreed with BoD pissy dismissals of Okoro and Toppin, though I think the latter's selection at #5-#8 would seem to indicate that pro scouts disagreed with Bo's assessment and were more in tune with the judgement of Coach Tom Thumb.

SIXTH: LOW HANGING FRUIT?  This was a WAY BETTER DRAFT in terms of serviceable NBA talent from top to bottom than the geniuses allowed.  I mean, Ball falling to Charlotte at #3?  Williams moving up to #4.  Toppin and Avdija and Vassell and Haliburton and Lewis and Nesmith and Anthony all being there for the taking between 8 & 15?  MIAMI with another one of their patented mid-late first round heists at #20 with Precious Achiuwa....I mean, how PERFECT is THAT?

Wow.  And despite BoD's dismissive Rubio/Flynn metaphor for Toppin/Avdija, I would rather float a more garish hindsight suggestion of Trae/Luca.  Okay, that is as giddy and over the top as BoD's predictable piss take.  I will readily grant BoD THIS, though...when Detroit took Hayes at #7, I swallowed hard at the realization that both Toppin and Avdija were sitting there are #8.  HOLY SHIT.  Clearly the CONSENSUS of Tom Thumb, Perrywinkle, Thorn Of The Rose, Pass The Salt Walt, Aller Kocker, Zanin The Pass and Double Wide Wes saw something in Toppin [and Immanuel] that they really coveted moving forward in their ostensible grand scheme, which shall reveal itself in stages through the top of next week. 

But there would appear to be some sort of commitment in the short term to Knox and Brazdeikis AND Toppin in a 3-4 scheme of things, and a wait and see on 4-5 Randle going forward...I am not as convinced that Julius is click bait or a place holder as the received wisdom would have, a 20-10-3 a game man being something to cherish on any roster, and agree that Randle is a candidate for a Morris-style trade by the deadline.  Or NOT?  STILL, Avdija really impressed me in pre-draft interviews and clips for his size and wingspan and skill set and INTELLECTUAL Acumen as a passer and defender, not to metion experience playing against pros and the endorsement of Amare.  In any event, don't cry for me Argentina.  We will all watch him with considerable interest, even as one needs make no mistake about Toppin's frame, strength, motor, growth curve and explosive inside/outside offensive game AND MOTIVATIONAL FIRE.  The kid wanted to be a KNICK and represent New York. 

So, upon relflection, all of the what ifs and couldawouldashoulda and Stephen A-MeltDowns, a better than passing grade for Thorn Of The Rose and his Posse.  Say what the fuck you want.  After striking out on the ping pong balls, we scored genuine talent moving forward.

(https://a4.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=%2Fmedia%2Fmotion%2F2020%2F0317%2Fdm_200317_OBI_TOPPIN_REV_FINAL%2Fdm_200317_OBI_TOPPIN_REV_FINAL.jpg&w=640&h=360&format=jpg)

DRAFT GRADE: B+

(https://www.baltimoresun.com/resizer/sBqVhAM20f8cN5i8t9jrGpiA078=/fit-in/800x533/smart/filters:fill(black)/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-tronc.s3.amazonaws.com/public/WA3OEUM6WREO7DBRHQ3J7HYHYA.jpg)

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 19, 2020, 03:45:09 PM
Quote
But there would appear to be some sort of commitment in the short term to Knox and Brazdeikis AND Toppin in a 3-4 scheme of things, and a wait and see on 4-5 Randle going forward.

Toppings playing the 3?
Randle playing the 5?
Randle and Toppings paired together?

I guess we'll have some funky lineups and try things.
But Randle won't be here long.
If we could flip him for Rubio or Dragic or such, we probably would.
Rubio went back to Minny (if I've kept up).

I was trying to think how to maximize RJB and ToPDog, and seems we'd be best pushing the pace.  Good open court players, who can get up and down, and cause havoc.  While in the halfcourt we could struggle without adequate G's.

Now, FVV would speed us up.
So could Westbrook.
With theMelo in CHA, the market for Westbrook is said to have dried up, due to his huge contract.  We could trade Randle and Franc for Russ.  That's shave $25M off our payroll, so that Westbrook's $41M would only be an additional $16M.
It's the 2 years after that make it real problematic.
Westbrook and kiddies - RJB - Knox - Topping - Mitch
Quickley - Franc - Bullock - Taj(?) - Jr. Smith
And we'd still have a good amount of cap space this year.

Not saying I'd do it.  But it would make us more fun to watch.
RJB - Top - Mitch all sprinting down court with Russ.

Well, we're gonna do something with the cap space.
Hope it works out.  Still lotsa holes to fill.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 19, 2020, 03:47:01 PM
Randle's days are numbered. But he could be the starting PF and a mentor this year.  But he'll be shopped mid-season and again in the Summer.


Well, yeah = pretty much on a  1-year deal unless he SUDDENLY becomes a fave of Thibs

Could pick up second year if looking to use it in a deal (see what happened with Ariza this year)
Title: Update
Post by: chipstern on November 19, 2020, 03:55:57 PM
Chris Iseman: Knicks make it official: Wayne Ellington, Elfrid Payton, Kenny Wooten and Taj Gibson have all been waived. They’re not exercising team options on Theo Pinson and Bobby Portis. – via Twitter ChrisIseman

No surprises except for Kenny Wooten. 

So now we have Mitchell at the 5 and Julius and ObiDialUp at the 4. 

Room for Portis or Gibson at the 5-4 slot if the price is right. 

We shall see. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 19, 2020, 03:59:34 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 19, 2020, 03:45:09 PM
  We could trade Randle and Franc for Russ.  That's shave $25M off our payroll, so that Westbrook's $41M would only be an additional $16M.
It's the 2 years after that make it real problematic.
Westbrook and kiddies - RJB - Knox - Topping - Mitch
Quickley - Franc - Bullock - Taj(?) - Jr. Smith
And we'd still have a good amount of cap space this year.

Not saying I'd do it.  But it would make us more fun to watch.
RJB - Top - Mitch all sprinting down court with Russ.

Well, we're gonna do something with the cap space.
Hope it works out.  Still lotsa holes to fill.

Well you've sold me on the deal. If all we have to give up is Randle and one of Franc/SmithJr/Knox* then I would pull the trigger.
 Russ has more than a year left in him for sure. 
And if he starts falling apart in three years we just cut ties or move him as an expiring.
If Houston asks for more I'm willing to walk away and look into FVV.



*I'm not giving Houston a sweetheart deal to get out of Russ's contract with no other suitors. 
Title: Why are we making his name longer than it needs to be
Post by: Kam on November 19, 2020, 04:02:44 PM
His name is Obi.
Title: Current Roster
Post by: Kam on November 19, 2020, 04:09:16 PM
Bigs:  Mitch/Randle/Obi

Wings:  RJ/Bullock/Knox/Bradzeikis

Backcourt: Ntilikina/SmithJR

Two-Way: Harper

Free Agents (bird rights): Dotson, Harkless



Am I missing anybody.  ... Isaiah Hicks?
Title: Current Roster
Post by: chipstern on November 19, 2020, 04:42:23 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 19, 2020, 04:09:16 PM
Bigs:  Mitch/Randle/Obi

Wings:  RJ/Bullock/Knox/Bradzeikis

Backcourt: Ntilikina/SmithJR

Two-Way: Harper

Free Agents (bird rights): Dotson, Harkless



Am I missing anybody.  ... Isaiah Hicks?

Good one. 

Interest in Bobby Portis return to Knicks

Ian Begley: Elfrid Payton, Kenny Wooten will be waived & NYK, as expected, won’t exercise Bobby Portis’ option, sources confirm. Some mutual interest in Portis’ return, per sources. Also, no qualifying offer for Damyean Dotson. NYK has planned to keep Reggie Bullock. Newsday first reported. – via Twitter IanBegley

Not sure how the Birds Rights Thing works with Dotson and Harkless. 

Yes, if all Westbrook cost us was Randle and DJ, that might be a 50/50 roll of the dice worth contemplating. 

Still, I'd be more interested in giving Rondo $10 X 2 than Russell $40-42-44 over three.  Not that RW wouldn't be a force of nature, but Rondo a more heady extension of Tom Thumb on the floor. 

And again, as a Minority of ONE, I would be all in on Portis coming back for the MCE, which is more in keeping with his value.  And he DOES HAVE VALUE FOR US in a platoon with Mitchell, and spotting minutes at the 4.  I think he would be a much more cost effective, tenable option than Bertrans or Wood, as I do not see them as realistic, though yummy options.  Grant from Denver?  Do not know what the over under is on any of them. 

Watching some end of season reruns on MSG, and Portis upped his game after All Star break, as did Julius. 

So, again, if the price is right, Portis gives us three point range and coverage at the 4 & 5.  And while not the most heady cat, has a fire to his game.   

As for Dennis, I too could see the Knicks rolling into the season allowing him to claim the minutes.  If only to up his value.  Or fulfill his promise.  We give up on cats too early.  The uncertainty of the PG rotation with Payton shelving both Frank and Dennis, just as dim as Ellington shelving Dotson, and Morris shelving Knox, though we have now converted Morris to Quickley, so....

Next week is going to be filled with thrills and chills. 
Title: Rumors De Jour
Post by: chipstern on November 19, 2020, 04:57:10 PM
Possible Interest In Gordon Hayward if he declines his option and becomes a UFA.

Thoughts?

Great skill set, but I keep thinking of Klay Thompson, a comprable talent, who, get well soon, has proven to be snake bit. 

If he could be had for something reasonable in the 15-20 range? 

I don't know. 

Thrills & Chills
Title: PS
Post by: chipstern on November 19, 2020, 04:58:17 PM
RJ Hampton was picked by Milwaukee for Denver. 

Nuggets stockpiling talent. 
Title: Gordon Hayward
Post by: chipstern on November 19, 2020, 05:08:25 PM
Just declined his option.

UFA.

I would think Indiana is the logical landing spot. 

Knicks in play? 

Thrills & Chills. 

Also.

Frank Kaminsky just became a UFA. 

Lots of shoes dropping. 
Title: Let There Be Light
Post by: chipstern on November 19, 2020, 05:26:24 PM
OBADIAH Richard Toppin                                       
                                                                               
IMMANUEL Jaylen Quickley

(https://i.imgflip.com/3eunjg.png)

Obadiah (Hebrew: עֹבַדְיָה meaning, "servant of the Lord") is a Biblical theophorical name, meaning "servant or slave of God" or "worshiper of Yahweh."  According to the Talmud, Obadiah is said to have been a convert to Judaism from Edom, a descendant of Eliphaz, the friend of Job. He is identified with the Obadiah who was the servant of Ahab, and it is said that he was chosen to prophesy against Edom because he was himself an Edomite. Moreover, having lived with two such godless persons as Ahab and Jezebel without learning to act as they did, he seemed the most suitable person to prophesy against Esau

Immanuel (Hebrew: עִמָּנוּאֵל‎ meaning, "God is with us") is a Hebrew name which appears in the Book of Isaiah (7:14) as a sign that God will protect the House of David.  The Gospel of Matthew (Matthew 1:22–23) interprets this as a prophecy of the birth of the Messiah and the fulfillment of Scripture in the person of Jesus. 
Title: Connections
Post by: chipstern on November 19, 2020, 05:44:42 PM
Tim MacMahon: One strong tie between the Knicks and Gordon Hayward: new NYK associate head coach Johnnie Bryant, the former Jazz assistant who oversaw Hayward’s development in Utah. – via Twitter espn_macmahon

For what it's worth. 

Last night, a RARE EXAMPLE of Karma Playing out in the Knicks favor, as our #1 target drops right in our lap....instead of what historically happens....

Knicks were all ready to draft Chuck Person when Indy snarfed him up, and we drafted Kenny Walker with the next pick. 

Knicks were all ready to draft Russell Westbrook, when OKC snarfed him up, and we drafted Danilo Gallinari with the next pick.

Knicks were all ready to draft Steph Curry, when Golden State snarfed him up, and we drafted Jordan Hill with the next pick.

And then of course, draft night karma....

Zeke drafterd Renaldo Balkman ahead of Rajon Rondo and Kyle Lowry.  And Zeke was a PG.  WTF?

Speaking of WTF, Zeke gave Phoenix two #1 picks for Stephon Marbury.  The second of those picks ended up in Utah, as payment for them eating the final years of Tom Chambers' bloated contract. 

And who did Utah select?

GORDON HAYWARD. 

The Johnniue Bryant/Utah Jazz connection to Hayward is significant.  So, too, that of Knicks VP, Walt Perrin, who as a Jazz super scout was instrumental in the process of drafting him. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 19, 2020, 06:08:19 PM
We have a lot of room to add pieces. There are a lot of guys loose.

Obi v Randle will be fun competition. Quickley fits with everyone on our roster. Both of our draft picks are high EFG scorers with consistent range.

New Orleans has too many PGs right now. Something to keep an eye on as a lot are very good. George Hill or Lonzo would be fun adds.
Title: Re: Gordon Hayward
Post by: bankshot1 on November 19, 2020, 06:51:25 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 19, 2020, 05:08:25 PM
Just declined his option.

UFA.

I would think Indiana is the logical landing spot. 

Knicks in play? 

Thrills & Chills. 

Also.

Frank Kaminsky just became a UFA. 

Lots of shoes dropping.

Indy has been rumored for awhile.

I hope they can work a S&T, or re-up him.

But he may want out of the shadows of 2 younger wings-stars in the making.
Title: A VERY Interesting Move
Post by: chipstern on November 19, 2020, 06:54:41 PM
Adrian Wojnarowski: The Utah Jazz are trading Ed Davis and two 2023 second-round picks to the New York Knicks, sources tell @Brian Windhorst and me. – via Twitter wojespn

Final year of a deal for $5 million. 

Walt Perrin brought him to Utah, and thought last year was just an off year given injuries and reduced minutes for a solid career role playing PF-C. 

Davis was a stout contributor and solid locker room presence in limited minutes as a bench player for the Nets in 2018-10119, grabbing 8.6 boards and posting a .616 FG%

As for Kam's question as per stockpiling 2023 Second Round Picks.

Well, 2020-2021, 2021-2022, 2022-2023.  Two draft from now, HS kids can come straight out of school and not have to go the one and done route in college.  So, with Dallas' #1 pick in tow, the Knicks will be situated to stock a burgeoning G League/Minor League Affliliate with talent, minus the pressure to throw kids to the lions at the main level. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 19, 2020, 06:56:52 PM
AINGE don't want the Knicks to have Hayward.  Wants to send him West.
Title: Re: Gordon Hayward
Post by: chipstern on November 19, 2020, 07:00:37 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on November 19, 2020, 06:51:25 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 19, 2020, 05:08:25 PM
Just declined his option.

UFA.

I would think Indiana is the logical landing spot. 

Knicks in play? 

Thrills & Chills. 

Also.

Frank Kaminsky just became a UFA. 

Lots of shoes dropping.

Indy has been rumored for awhile.

I hope they can work a S&T, or re-up him.

But he may want out of the shadows of 2 younger wings-stars in the making.

I think Gordon wants out.  A valuable piece, and not exactly redundant, but Jaylen and Jason eat up a lot of minutes, and the Celtics draft picks, sharpshooter Aaron Nesmith and gritty point, dead eye dick Peyton Pritchard make the 2-3 and 1-2 spots a bit more crowded.  Especially since Marcus Smart may have been floated, but is still with the Green Team.  Apparently Ainge was shopping Kemba and his knock knees actively.

I would think that Indy has the upper hand on the Knicks, and I would not offer more than $20 million a year, but what do I know. 

THRILLS & CHILLS. 

PS: Great picks for Ainge.  Bane at #30 apparently traded. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 19, 2020, 07:02:46 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 19, 2020, 06:56:52 PM
AINGE don't want the Knicks to have Hayward.  Wants to send him West.

Only problem with THAT is Gordon is an UNRESTRICTED FREE AGENT.

So if...

IF....

Hayward consented to a sign and trade, that would be one thing. 

But he is holding all the cards. 

What happens when you turn down a $34 million PLAYER OPTION. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on November 19, 2020, 07:03:37 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 19, 2020, 06:56:52 PM
AINGE don't want the Knicks to have Hayward.  Wants to send him West.

I can't see Hayward wanting the Knicks. If he's moved Indy makes the most sense.

Play-off team, local guy, he lives there.

Supposedly the talks were Turner and McDermott but Ainge wanted something more.
Title: Gordon Hayward
Post by: chipstern on November 19, 2020, 07:07:37 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on November 19, 2020, 07:03:37 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 19, 2020, 06:56:52 PM
AINGE don't want the Knicks to have Hayward.  Wants to send him West.

I can't see Hayward wanting the Knicks. If he's moved Indy makes the most sense.

Play-off team, local guy, he lives there.

Supposedly the talks were Turner and McDermott but Ainge wanted something more.

Bank

Gordon is AN UNRESTRICTED FREE AGENT. 

He would have to CONSENT to any sign and trade.  And Ainge should take a deep breath.  Turner would be one hell of an addition. 

Mark Murphy: Hayward’s opt-out viewed more as a formality. League source said it’s still possible he returns to C’s in restructured deal, unless, ala Al Horford, he receives home run offer from Atlanta or New York. “Gordon doesn’t even know right now.” – via Twitter Murf56
Title: Thrills & Chills
Post by: chipstern on November 19, 2020, 07:09:40 PM
Adrian Wojnarowski: The Detroit Pistons aren’t extending a qualifying offer to Thon Maker and he’ll become an unrestricted free agent, source tells ESPN. – via Twitter wojespn

A career back up, but another interesting option. 

Speaking of which?

Jeff Teague

Avery Bradley

ED DAVIS

Perhaps the Knicks eat his contract and waive him.  Good leadership and a worker bee.  We shall see. 
Title: Re: Gordon Hayward
Post by: bankshot1 on November 19, 2020, 07:14:43 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 19, 2020, 07:00:37 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on November 19, 2020, 06:51:25 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 19, 2020, 05:08:25 PM
Just declined his option.

UFA.

I would think Indiana is the logical landing spot. 

Knicks in play? 

Thrills & Chills. 

Also.

Frank Kaminsky just became a UFA. 

Lots of shoes dropping.

Indy has been rumored for awhile.

I hope they can work a S&T, or re-up him.

But he may want out of the shadows of 2 younger wings-stars in the making.

I think Gordon wants out.  A valuable piece, and not exactly redundant, but Jaylen and Jason eat up a lot of minutes, and the Celtics draft picks, sharpshooter Aaron Nesmith and gritty point, dead eye dick Peyton Pritchard make the 2-3 and 1-2 spots a bit more crowded.  Especially since Marcus Smart may have been floated, but is still with the Green Team.  Apparently Ainge was shopping Kemba and his knock knees actively.

I would think that Indy has the upper hand on the Knicks, and I would not offer more than $20 million a year, but what do I know. 

THRILLS & CHILLS. 

PS: Great picks for Ainge.  Bane at #30 apparently traded.

I think the Celts helped themselves last night with a couple of role players, bench guys, who can score.

i saw Enes opted-in, between Kanter-Theis-Williams, they got a center by committee, but it could stand an upgrade.

Gordo may want a fresh start, but if he has the balls to turn down $34MM he must figure the market for him is pretty good, and more closer to $25-30, maybe he gets 4 years $110-$120.

His role changed with the emergence of the Js and he may want to be more an alpha (or beta) in Indy than the hallowed 6th man role in Boston. 

I hope Ainge can work it and finds the just right deal,
Title: Re: Gordon Hayward
Post by: chipstern on November 19, 2020, 07:16:28 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on November 19, 2020, 07:14:43 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 19, 2020, 07:00:37 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on November 19, 2020, 06:51:25 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 19, 2020, 05:08:25 PM
Just declined his option.

UFA.

I would think Indiana is the logical landing spot. 

Knicks in play? 

Thrills & Chills. 

Also.

Frank Kaminsky just became a UFA. 

Lots of shoes dropping.

Indy has been rumored for awhile.

I hope they can work a S&T, or re-up him.

But he may want out of the shadows of 2 younger wings-stars in the making.

I think Gordon wants out.  A valuable piece, and not exactly redundant, but Jaylen and Jason eat up a lot of minutes, and the Celtics draft picks, sharpshooter Aaron Nesmith and gritty point, dead eye dick Peyton Pritchard make the 2-3 and 1-2 spots a bit more crowded.  Especially since Marcus Smart may have been floated, but is still with the Green Team.  Apparently Ainge was shopping Kemba and his knock knees actively.

I would think that Indy has the upper hand on the Knicks, and I would not offer more than $20 million a year, but what do I know. 

THRILLS & CHILLS. 

PS: Great picks for Ainge.  Bane at #30 apparently traded.

I think the Celts helped themselves last night with a couple of role players, bench guys, who can score.

i saw Enes opted-in, between Kanter-Theis-Williams, they got a center by committee, but it could stand an upgrade.

Gordo may want a fresh start, but if he has the balls to turn down $34MM he must figure the market for him is pretty good, and more closer to $25-30, maybe he gets 4 years $110-$120.

His role changed with the emergence of the Js and he may want to be more an alpha (or beta) in Indy than the hallowed 6th man role in Boston. 

I hope Ainge can work it and finds the just right deal,

For a Randle style deal, I would be interested. 

Not for 25-30 x 4.

Good luck, Bank.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on November 19, 2020, 07:19:29 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 19, 2020, 07:07:37 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on November 19, 2020, 07:03:37 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 19, 2020, 06:56:52 PM
AINGE don't want the Knicks to have Hayward.  Wants to send him West.

I can't see Hayward wanting the Knicks. If he's moved Indy makes the most sense.

Play-off team, local guy, he lives there.

Supposedly the talks were Turner and McDermott but Ainge wanted something more.

Bank

Gordon is AN UNRESTRICTED FREE AGENT. 

He would have to CONSENT to any sign and trade.  And fuck Ainge.  Turner would be one hell of an addition.

Chip I understand.

Or understand the NBA cap-free agent rules as best I can.

The Celt's can resign him and if he wants to go to Indy then the S&T is about the only way to get there.

from what I've read there aren't a lot of destination franchises that have the cap space to take Gordo without a S&T structure. (ATL and the Knicks)

If he wants NY or ATL then he can sign as a FA. 
Title: Re: Gordon Hayward
Post by: bankshot1 on November 19, 2020, 07:22:30 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 19, 2020, 07:16:28 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on November 19, 2020, 07:14:43 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 19, 2020, 07:00:37 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on November 19, 2020, 06:51:25 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 19, 2020, 05:08:25 PM
Just declined his option.

UFA.

I would think Indiana is the logical landing spot. 

Knicks in play? 

Thrills & Chills. 

Also.

Frank Kaminsky just became a UFA. 

Lots of shoes dropping.

Indy has been rumored for awhile.

I hope they can work a S&T, or re-up him.

But he may want out of the shadows of 2 younger wings-stars in the making.

I think Gordon wants out.  A valuable piece, and not exactly redundant, but Jaylen and Jason eat up a lot of minutes, and the Celtics draft picks, sharpshooter Aaron Nesmith and gritty point, dead eye dick Peyton Pritchard make the 2-3 and 1-2 spots a bit more crowded.  Especially since Marcus Smart may have been floated, but is still with the Green Team.  Apparently Ainge was shopping Kemba and his knock knees actively.

I would think that Indy has the upper hand on the Knicks, and I would not offer more than $20 million a year, but what do I know. 

THRILLS & CHILLS. 

PS: Great picks for Ainge.  Bane at #30 apparently traded.

I think the Celts helped themselves last night with a couple of role players, bench guys, who can score.

i saw Enes opted-in, between Kanter-Theis-Williams, they got a center by committee, but it could stand an upgrade.

Gordo may want a fresh start, but if he has the balls to turn down $34MM he must figure the market for him is pretty good, and more closer to $25-30, maybe he gets 4 years $110-$120.

His role changed with the emergence of the Js and he may want to be more an alpha (or beta) in Indy than the hallowed 6th man role in Boston. 

I hope Ainge can work it and finds the just right deal,

For a Randle style deal, I would be interested. 

Not for 25-30 x 4.

Good luck, Bank.

He turned down a guaranteed 1 yr $34MM. He must think he's looking at 4-110+
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 19, 2020, 07:34:10 PM
Ed Davis is a nice tutor/reserve to help Mitch grow. A good vet who maximizes his talent with smart play. He’s also a real center.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 19, 2020, 07:54:59 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 19, 2020, 07:34:10 PM
Ed Davis is a nice tutor/reserve to help Mitch grow. A good vet who maximizes his talent with smart play. He’s also a real center.

Checks the boxes.

Tough guy.  Locker room presence. 

If we keep him. 

We shall see. 

I am rooting for them to keep him.  Good character guy.
Title: Cap Space On Ice, With A Side Of Fries
Post by: chipstern on November 19, 2020, 08:29:35 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 19, 2020, 07:34:10 PM
Ed Davis is a nice tutor/reserve to help Mitch grow. A good vet who maximizes his talent with smart play. He’s also a real center.
 

Brother Facil...

I just had a long debate with Forum Alumni, Nagel. 

He was all in for spending cap space and notching wins. 

I am all in for being proactive and opportunistic. 

We have cap space, why not use it?

WHY INDEED? 

MY THOUGHTS, AGAIN. 

There is going to be a free agent feeding frenzy come 6PM Friday. 

Should we jump into the deep end of the pool and go all in for the likes of Gordon Hayward at $25-30 million a year, Russell Westbrook at $40-42-44 for the next three? 

Our interest in Christian Wood should have cooled considerably with the arrival of Obi...and his three point range makes making an expensive we can match any offer at Bertrans less dire.   

Ex-Jazz Coach, now Assistant Head Coach Johnnie Bryant has been schooling guards Dennis, Frank and RJ.  We have 5'11" jet ski Auburn PG Jared Harper on a two-way.  We just drafted Quickley. 

Are we going to commit to Dennis and Frank and Immanuel and Jared, or go searching for a second tier veteran PG. 

Avery Bradley and Jeff Teague and Rondo are going to be pricey, though not out of reach. 

What IF....

IF

....we keep our powder dry and see what low hanging fruit might be available on the cheap come Sunday or Monday after all the really ripe free agents have been gobbled up and have limited options.  Would it be to our bemefit to inquire as to the Reggie Jacksons, the Eric Bledsoes of the world?   On the cheap?  Not sure. 

But in terms of free agents and adding veteran presence, I would like to think we keep our options over and feast like vultures on sloppy seconds. 

And keep our powder dry going into the season, with plenty of cap space still on ice, to faciliate trades as a third or fourth man in, to absorb contracts in exchange for draft picks. 

Anyway, the feeding frency breaks on Friday evening at 6PM. 

Start your engines, and may the Knicks idle for a while before stepping on the accelerator.  I would like to have cap flax come the trading deadline. 

Title: Re: A VERY Interesting Move
Post by: Kam on November 19, 2020, 08:33:26 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 19, 2020, 06:54:41 PM

As for Kam's question as per stockpiling 2023 Second Round Picks.

Well, 2020-2021, 2021-2022, 2022-2023.  Two draft from now, HS kids can come straight out of school and not have to go the one and done route in college.  So, with Dallas' #1 pick in tow, the Knicks will be situated to stock a burgeoning G League/Minor League Affliliate with talent, minus the pressure to throw kids to the lions at the main level.

Begging the question ... is there a high school freshman out there this year we have our eyes on? 
One whose high school isn't virtual i'd assume.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 19, 2020, 08:36:56 PM
What happens when you turn down a $34 million PLAYER OPTION.


You agree at 3-75/90 to 4/100-110 somewhere else (and likely WEST of Boston - Danny doesnt want him in Indiana either)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 19, 2020, 08:38:14 PM
Hearing Bo favorite OUBRE may be headed to Warriors.
Title: Let's get started
Post by: Kam on November 19, 2020, 08:49:31 PM
https://nbadraftroom.com/p/2023-nba-mock-draft/ (https://nbadraftroom.com/p/2023-nba-mock-draft/)

https://nbadraftroom.com/p/2023-2nd-round/ (https://nbadraftroom.com/p/2023-2nd-round/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 19, 2020, 08:50:45 PM
33   Ryan Mutombo     C – Georgetown – HT: 6-11 – WT: 215 – WING: NA – HSsr – Son of Dikembe, Ryan is quickly emerging as a high major/future NBA player.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on November 19, 2020, 09:09:53 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 19, 2020, 08:36:56 PM
What happens when you turn down a $34 million PLAYER OPTION.


You agree at 3-75/90 to 4/100-110 somewhere else (and likely WEST of Boston - Danny doesnt want him in Indiana either)

Can we agree in these contentious times that EAST of Boston is an unlikely landing spot for Gordo?

IMO Ainge would like to max his possible return re GH.

So lets look at 3 possible outcomes.

A-Gordo signs as a FA (Knicks or Hawks or another team that has cap space to handle GH) there is no return coming back to the Celts,

B-S&T with Indy helps a EC competitor but it provides a return (players or a pick or both) and preserves the Celts ability to eventually replace Gordo with another quality player.

C-The Celts could resign Gordo to a LT deal in the 4-110ish neighborhood. 

IMO without details re the return coming back, C and then B are the more preferable than A.

From what I understand (little) Gordo would not be adverse to playing in hometown Indy for a play-off team. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 19, 2020, 10:02:10 PM
4)  sign and trade to a WEST team
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 19, 2020, 10:12:16 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 19, 2020, 10:02:10 PM
4)  sign and trade to a WEST team

Who? 

GS cupboard is bare save for Wiggins. 

Lakers have that LeBron fellow.

Cliipers have Kawhi. 

San Antonio have DeMar? 

Dallas?  Who can they offer? 

Houston?  Westbrook?  Giggle. 

OKC?  Not feeling it.  They are in long terms rebuild mode. 

Phoenix.  CP3.  Shopping season over. 

Pelicans?  Have Brandon Ingram. 

Minnesota?  Jared Culver would be a stout return. 

Milwaukee?  Hmmm, Bogdonavich trade just collapsed, and they are being investigated for tampering.  But might have some pieces.  Don't see the money working out as they are all in the Greek. 

Atlanta?  Have a solid 3&D, what's his name. 

Knicks have Knox.  Are they all in on the kid? 

Indiana would seem to be S&T or FA country. 

Hayward holding all the cards.  Ainge would appear to be between a rock and a hard place.  If Turner was in play, should have jumped. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 19, 2020, 10:12:49 PM
Not really liking Indiana giving up Turner
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 19, 2020, 10:16:38 PM
Atlanta really has just three players that are top calibre

Hayward certainly a huge upgrade on all of Hunter, Huerter and Reddish

Collins actually fits, as does Capela, but Clint likely staying put and Collins too good for this deal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 19, 2020, 10:17:34 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 19, 2020, 10:12:49 PM
Not really liking Indiana giving up Turner

I think it is a dumb move, too, but apparently he has been in play for a while. 

God knows why. 

Solid center down low, and can stretch the floor with his shot. 

Ostensibly does not match up so well with Sabonis, which is....ODD. 

Speaking of dumb moves, God bless James Harden, and all time great. 

But if the Nyets give up Allen, LaVert, Dimwiddie and multiple #1s, just so Harden can make Kyrie paranoid, they are delusional. 

If they are in need of some cap space parking lot, they might inquire of the Knicks.  Chuckle.  Perhaps Dimwiddie of Durant can make the call to Dolan.   
Title: An Old Testament Prophecy Fulfilled
Post by: chipstern on November 19, 2020, 10:20:52 PM
Obadiah As A Young Knicks Fan

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EnOdB9gWMAAfxu1?format=jpg&name=large)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 19, 2020, 10:23:19 PM
No doubt if Indy dealt Myles T they would add a big from elsewhere - but starting Domatis at the five and playing smaller fits new leaguewide norm.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 19, 2020, 10:36:01 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 19, 2020, 10:23:19 PM
No doubt if Indy dealt Myles T they would add a big from elsewhere - but starting Domatis at the five and playing smaller fits new leaguewide norm.

By that logic, Julius Randle could get significant minutes at the 5, with Obi at the 4 and Knox at the 3 in some alignments. 

Sam Presti exacted a #1 from GS for Kelly, Top 20 protected.  If Warriors finish below 21-30, Thunder get two #2 picks. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 19, 2020, 10:39:11 PM
By that logic, Julius Randle could get significant minutes at the 5, with Obi at the 4 and Knox at the 3 in some alignments.


Yes, of course

Thus I thought the Randle vs Toppin comment earlier was silly

Not bullish on Knox, but we'll see.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 19, 2020, 10:45:20 PM
When Quickley gives us minutes at the 2, could be RJB at the 3
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 20, 2020, 12:19:13 AM
I’d throw a big offer at GH. JaMychal Green would be the next target down followed by Mo Harkless for another run. We need a vet to take matchups too quick for Randle and too big for Bullock.

I’d also look at adding Chris Dunn. He’s on an arc not dissimilar to Marcus Smart who wasn’t really a plus on the scoring end till this year. Real buy low potential there.

Many shoes a droppin. Good times.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 20, 2020, 12:22:31 AM
Quote
Gordo may want a fresh start, but if he has the balls to turn down $34MM he must figure the market for him is pretty good, and more closer to $25-30, maybe he gets 4 years $110-$120.

Geez, anybody gonna pay him that much or for that long?
The max I'd consider is a 3/$75M.
And that's more than I'd want to pay.

Wonder if the Knix can get in the middle of this.
Sign Haywire as an RFA and then he's an asset we could keep or later flip.
We could certainly use an SF who can shoot, pass, handle.
The extra ballhandling would be most welcome.

I haven't understood IND believing Sabonis and Turner aren't a good pairing.  Both can play in/out.  Turner much better defending down low.
Two outstanding young Bigs.  Just make it work.

I'd sign Gordo and flip him for MyTurn (and figure things out later).
Of course that would work much better if we had just selected Avdija instead of Topping.  I miss Avdija.

Hope Top Dog works out, but I would have taken Avdija, TyH and Vassell ahead of ObiT.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 20, 2020, 12:30:44 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 20, 2020, 12:22:31 AM


Hope Top Dog works out, but I would have taken Avdija, TyH and Vassell ahead of ObiT.

I think he's one of the surest bets from this draft from an offense standpoint.  I worry about his defense.  He looks lost.  But if Thibs can surround him with good defenders and get him to play well enough offensively to offset what he gives up then he'll have a good environment to succeed in. 

Avidja is very intriguing and has a skill set but I wonder if we've been scared off by picking Euro. 
Toppin a New Yorker with CAA connects.... not likely to ask for a trade cough cough
Title: BoZ
Post by: carlos123 on November 20, 2020, 12:32:33 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 20, 2020, 12:22:31 AM

I'd sign Gordo and flip him for MyTurn (and figure things out later).
Of course that would work much better if we had just selected Avdija instead of Topping.  I miss Avdija.

Hope Top Dog works out, but I would have taken Avdija, TyH and Vassell ahead of ObiT.

BoZ, you makin too much sense, funny names and all.
I’m sure Chamaco will have some trumpian kind of retort.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 20, 2020, 12:38:00 AM
Quote from: chipstern on November 19, 2020, 07:54:59 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 19, 2020, 07:34:10 PM
Ed Davis is a nice tutor/reserve to help Mitch grow. A good vet who maximizes his talent with smart play. He’s also a real center.

Checks the boxes.
Tough guy.  Locker room presence.  Good character guy.

Davis said to be one of the most liked players in the NBofA.
Smart hard worker.
Not sure why he had such a rough year in UTA, but they also had trouble working in Conley, and waived Jeff Green who then had a pretty solid playoff run with HOU.
Maybe Mitchell and Gobert are harder to fit with than you'd expect.  Or Quinn the Mighty Ute needs to be more flexible.  But they certainly didn't max their vet additions.  Clarkson nearly saved them (and the Bog injury hurt them).

There were a number of years where I wondered why other role playing Bigs didn't model themselves on Ed Davis.  Just keeps it simple.  Set good screens and hustles to the rim.  Sneaks in for putbacks.  Nothing fancy, but nice court awareness.
But he's not a real C.  Thin, but long arms and good effort, so he can slot in there some.  But better at help D coming over than being the last line of defense.

Davis could help Mitch with some screening/rolling actions and game feel.
Could mean that we move on from Taj.  But Taj a Thibs guy and Davis could be dropped.  We'll see, but I like the addition.

Jordan Hill could have had a longer career just playing the smart low-key Ed Davis game.
Title: East of Shanghai
Post by: bodiddley on November 20, 2020, 12:54:12 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on November 19, 2020, 07:03:37 PM
Supposedly the talks were Turner and McDermott but Ainge wanted something more.

I find this hard to believe.

Quote from: bankshot1 on November 19, 2020, 09:09:53 PM
Can we agree in these contentious times that EAST of Boston is an unlikely landing spot for Gordo?

Hitchcock made a 1931 film Rich and Strange and its alternate title was East of Shanghai.  A droll Hitch joke, since east of Shanghai is the Pacific Ocean, and our rich estranged married couple wind up in a shipwreck off the coast of China.

It's a decent film, but I think it's Hitchcock's first talkie, and clearly a transitional film, as only about 1/3 of the scenes have spoken dialogue.  It's a bit patchy, married rich twits get an inheritance, travel the world, drift apart and get swindled separately by romantic grifters.  Some proto-Hitch touches but also somewhat generic relationship drama with adventure thrown in.  The material doesn't offer much.
Title: Cap Situation
Post by: Kam on November 20, 2020, 01:33:13 AM
Adding Ed Davis
* reduces the Knicks projected cap space to $35.9 million
* gives them 9 guaranteed contracts + 2 rookies to sign, leaving 4 open roster spots

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EnOKOnVXMAAwt4A?format=jpg&name=large)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 20, 2020, 02:02:25 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 19, 2020, 10:45:20 PM
When Quickley gives us minutes at the 2, could be RJB at the 3

And with Quickley at the 1, Frank could give us minutes at the 2. 

Listed as a COMBO Guard. 

Not sure how viable he is at the point. 

But can he ever shoot. 

A .428 3-pt percentage. 

And he gets to the line...a lot...like 5.2 times a game as a soph....and converted at a .923 FT%, up from .828 as a freshman, as his minutes went up from 18.5 to 33.0 as a soph.  There was some game where he drained 14-14 FTs.  He should contribute a DNA swab to Dennis and RJ.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 20, 2020, 02:03:45 AM
I wouldn't be against Portis back at around $8M.
His $15M option was ridiculous.
And I think his decision-making and defensive focus can be poor.
So not really a Thibs type.
And with ObiT in place, Portis less needed and a basically just room at the 3, where he's pretty similar to Knox, who needs minutes.

Hopefully we can find some other wing shooters.
And we might spend money on a PG.
But as a Plan C option, if we have money left over, Portis acceptable around the MLE.

Well, I started off this post open to Portis returning and convinced myself it's pointless.
I'd rather ObiT and Knox get such minutes.  RJB at the 3 as well.  So I'd rather spend the money (~ $8M) on a more reliable wing.

Portis at say 3/$22 would be a tradeable asset-- again if we have extra cap space.  And can't use it better.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 20, 2020, 02:09:30 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 20, 2020, 02:03:45 AM

Well, I started off this post open to Portis returning and convinced myself it's pointless.
I'd rather ObiT and Knox get such minutes.  RJB at the 3 as well.  So I'd rather spend the money (~ $8M) on a more reliable wing.


I was shaking my head in disbelief until I got to that part of your post.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 20, 2020, 02:11:25 AM
Of the guys we had I'd sooner bring back Gibson or Harkless than Portis.

But the calculus changes if Randle is moved.   Then I could see a spot for Portis.
Title: Advance The Runner. One Base At A Time
Post by: chipstern on November 20, 2020, 02:29:26 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 20, 2020, 02:03:45 AM
I wouldn't be against Portis back at around $8M.
His $15M option was ridiculous.
And I think his decision-making and defensive focus can be poor.
So not really a Thibs type.
And with ObiT in place, Portis less needed and a basically just room at the 3, where he's pretty similar to Knox, who needs minutes.

Hopefully we can find some other wing shooters.
And we might spend money on a PG.
But as a Plan C option, if we have money left over, Portis acceptable around the MLE.

Well, I started off this post open to Portis returning and convinced myself it's pointless.
I'd rather ObiT and Knox get such minutes.  RJB at the 3 as well.  So I'd rather spend the money (~ $8M) on a more reliable wing.

Portis at say 3/$22 would be a tradeable asset-- again if we have extra cap space.  And can't use it better.

Bo, I applaud your generosity.  I am a Portis Booster, but I wouldn't give him that much. 

Again, my sense of things is DO NO HARM. 

I loved all of same people you did: Haliburton, Vassell, DA.  Would have been happy with any of them or Okoro and Toppin.  I am really thrilled that we got both Toppin and Quickly. 

What impresses me the most about the NEW KNICKS FRONT OFFICE, so far, is unlike the past, DO NO HARM, and NOT GOING FOR THE FUCKING HOME RUN. 

In baseball, or hoops front offices, you can swing for the fences, or you can win with good defense and pitching, and offensively, play slow but stead...draw a walk...move the runner over...steal a base...sacrifice fly. 

The Knicks' moves were purposeful and well thought out. 

They obviously wanted Okoro or Toppin at #5, but unlike Donnie in the Melo trade, they didn't act in desperation, or allow themselves to be bamboozled, or like Isiah with Eddie Curry, over pay like crazy, like a mama luke.  Donnie got stampeded by Melo's greed, Dolan's impatience and fearof losing Melo to the Nets.  So he gave up Mozgov AND an additional #1 pick, the right for Denver to swap with us if we had the worst record.  Know who they picked with that second #1?  Jamal Murray. 

You can make a compelling case for any of the players we passed on. 

You can make a compelling case for the player we picked.  Can't have everything. 

I love the Ed Davis move, if we keep him.  A great veteran presence, like Udonis Haslem on the Heat.  THIS IS HOW IT IS DONE PUPPIES.  They also serve who screen and wait.  Or sit on the bench and define a winning team culture and the simple virtues which get the job done. 

I would not offer Portis 8 million, but the MCE at most.  What is that?  Five million. 

As for free agency, again, I am content to let the blood frenzy go on without us, and see who the last men standing are, who we can pick up for veterans minimums or thereabouts.  Once everyone else has squadered their cap space, and we are biding our time, waiting to see what talent has been left out in the cold, or what teams need a third team to facilitate a trade?

Russell Westbrook?  Gordon Hayward? 

Great players. 

We need to develop Dennis and Frank, Kevin and Ignaz, just to see what we've got, build up their value, as pieces going forward or was trade chips. 

Gordon Hayward in 2020? 

How about Kawhi Leonard in 2021.  Think that would make Thibs happy?  He has a player option next summer. 

PATIENCE HAS BEEN SHOWN THIS WEEK. 

Keep it up Knicks.  We paid dearly for our cap space.  Leave us not squander it.  Again, when someone needs someplace to stash salaries and ending contracts, and they are willing to give us assets for our trouble, that is the Jerry West way.  That is the Red Auerbach way.  We don't need to do a Hershel Walker trade like the Clippers did to make Kawhi happy and overpay through the dick for fuckikng Paul George. 

Advance the runner, Leon.  One base at a time.  One base at a time.  Ed Davis was not a big splash.  Barely even a drip.  But potentially consequential.  The small details Ralph.  No more home run swings.  Make contact.  Singles.  Bunts.  Sacrifices. 
Title: Re: BoZ
Post by: chipstern on November 20, 2020, 02:30:54 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on November 20, 2020, 12:32:33 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 20, 2020, 12:22:31 AM

I'd sign Gordo and flip him for MyTurn (and figure things out later).
Of course that would work much better if we had just selected Avdija instead of Topping.  I miss Avdija.

Hope Top Dog works out, but I would have taken Avdija, TyH and Vassell ahead of ObiT.

BoZ, you makin too much sense, funny names and all.
I’m sure Chamaco will have some trumpian kind of retort.

You might not have to wait for him. 

Got to get past me with that pendejo pandering pizz...more Henry Wallace than George Wallace. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 20, 2020, 03:19:34 AM
I thought the MLE was almost $9M if you are over the cap but under the tax and nearly $5M if over.  Something like that.  And the under the tax teams also get a ~ $4M exception (fka LLE).  As a team under the cap, I'm pretty sure we don't get any such exceptions.

Yeah, I'd rather re-sign MoHark for around $6M - $8M.
But he doesn't seem like much of a fit here.
If we added Avidja or move Randle, I could see MoHawk as a backup at both F slots.

We need to find some defenders.
Remember there was some NYK interest in MKG.
Might make more sense than Hark and cheaper to boot.
I'll have to look for more, but cheapish defenders should be available.

Hark or Portis could be useful as role players and potential trade pieces if we can sign them cheap enough.  Right now, we don't have much to trade except Randle and unproven yute.
And I think Randle isn't an easy team fit for most teams.

I probably need to adjust my salaries downward.  Tough financial climate, fans likely to be limited, revenue down, few teams with cap space.  3/$18 for Hark or Portis?  Wouldn't that make them bargains and tradeable? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 20, 2020, 03:50:40 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 20, 2020, 03:19:34 AM

I probably need to adjust my salaries downward.  Tough financial climate, fans likely to be limited, revenue down, few teams with cap space.  3/$18 for Hark or Portis?  Wouldn't that make them bargains and tradeable?

But what would we get in trade?  Marcus Morris fetched a late first rd pick.  Would Harkless or Portis even fetch a first?  Probaby not.

So it's really about signing them to help offset salary in trade for a guy making much bigger money and that's a low-probability.

Be a weird use of a roster spot to keep a vet just in case a trade for a star opened up.  Better off having the cap room.

Or sign a young up and comer to a decent deal. I guess that was what Portis was supposed to be if he panned out.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 20, 2020, 04:21:54 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 20, 2020, 03:19:34 AM
I thought the MLE was almost $9M if you are over the cap but under the tax and nearly $5M if over.  Something like that.  And the under the tax teams also get a ~ $4M exception (fka LLE).  As a team under the cap, I'm pretty sure we don't get any such exceptions.

Yeah, I'd rather re-sign MoHark for around $6M - $8M.
But he doesn't seem like much of a fit here.
If we added Avidja or move Randle, I could see MoHawk as a backup at both F slots.

We need to find some defenders.
Remember there was some NYK interest in MKG.
Might make more sense than Hark and cheaper to boot.
I'll have to look for more, but cheapish defenders should be available.

Hark or Portis could be useful as role players and potential trade pieces if we can sign them cheap enough.  Right now, we don't have much to trade except Randle and unproven yute.
And I think Randle isn't an easy team fit for most teams.

I probably need to adjust my salaries downward.  Tough financial climate, fans likely to be limited, revenue down, few teams with cap space.  3/$18 for Hark or Portis?  Wouldn't that make them bargains and tradeable?

Harkless for millions?

I'd rather have Gilchist for the vet's minimum. 
Title: A Simple Prayer
Post by: chipstern on November 20, 2020, 04:59:09 AM
Dear God

No CARMELO
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 20, 2020, 09:40:35 AM
I'm not sure MKG is down to vet min status.
And you'd think if that's all he's gonna get, he'd try to find either a winning team or somewhere he can get decent minutes.
Possibly the latter with NYK, but you have to figure RJB and Knox (and maybe some toppings) get the Sf minutes.
RJB and Bullock and Franc the SG minutes.  So not much available maybe.
If I were MKG I'd try to get $3M - $5M or find a winning or good situation.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 20, 2020, 09:44:33 AM
Hope Top Dog works out, but I would have taken Avdija, TyH and Vassell ahead of ObiT.


I had Avdija higher as well, but with less info than Rose and his staff had.  Like I said earlier - lets hope this isnt one we have to constantly revisit.

We know about Luka - and Rubio - but also about Bargnani, Milicic, Jan Vesely, etc.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 20, 2020, 10:00:26 AM
Yeah.
Well, Bargnani was a skilled player but wasn't motivated enough and not up for contact.
Milicic had a great physique but didn't really like basketball.
Vesely was a mess.  No real skills.

I think international scouting is better and the int'l leagues are as well.
Though it's always tough drafting a 19 year old.
Who knew what Franc would be able to do, and the same goes for Hayes.

Avdija has a solid body and nice all-around skills.  Guys who can pass and shoot and have good BB IQ are usually gonna have success.  Though his shooting numbers were less than his form would suggest.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 20, 2020, 10:07:53 AM
Supposedly the talks were Turner and McDermott but Ainge wanted something more.

I find this hard to believe.


I dont know - does Myles Turner really fit the current style of Celtics play - or their culture?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 20, 2020, 10:08:57 AM
It's too soon to know what direction the Knix are going in.
The team is still fairly unformed.

So it's not easy to know what moves to suggest until we make some other moves.
Except maybe some vet min deals.

I'd drop a 4/$94 on FVV, starting at $25M and dropping $1M per year.
Wouldn't he like to have his own team to run, have the big stage in NYC, and make $23.5M per.

Lock in a prime PG who plays D, can hit timely 3's, and can push the pace and make solid reads.  Would help the development of RJB, Tops, Mitch.  We'd really just need a starting SF.
be nice to have D from your PG and C. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 20, 2020, 10:14:25 AM
But what would we get in trade?  Marcus Morris fetched a late first rd pick.  Would Harkless or Portis even fetch a first?  Probaby not.

Morris fetched a FIRST, a SECOND (early, since it is 2021 Detroit pick) and a look at Harkless.

Knicks did good on that one.  Every time you see Quickley think of how we used some of that cap space in '19-'20.  Ditto later on if we get something of value for Randle.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 20, 2020, 10:25:42 AM
Just looked up DAVIS and they have him listed at 6-9, 218

That thin, really?

Interesting - of course I had to do a Jordan Hill compare.  Turns out that while J Hill would be top 50 status in rebound percentage, career had he the minutes to qualify, ED D makes the top 20 - and just needs 1700 more minutes (3 more healthy seasons?) to make the list.

(J Hill at 7600 minutes over his 8 seasons to Davis 13,250 with their impressive rates)

Not a bad comp.  Jordan with a bit better offensive numbers

Be warned - Davis shoots .583 from the line, career.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 20, 2020, 11:17:59 AM
Knicks ready to sign 6-2 guard Miles Powell out of Seton Hall.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on November 20, 2020, 11:30:58 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 20, 2020, 11:17:59 AM
Knicks ready to sign 6-2 guard Miles Powell out of Seton Hall.

Did they run out of pens?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 20, 2020, 11:58:10 AM
Antonio Davis options with Lakers -

2 years, 68 mil (option on year 2)
3 years, 106 mil (option on year 3)
4 years, 147
5 years, 189

Davis will take at least through Thanksgiving to mull his decision.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 20, 2020, 12:01:03 PM
So, what do we think - Hayward for Randle and our 2021 #1, top ten protected?

Would free up starter time for OBI

X
Barrett
Hayward
Toppin
X

3-85 for Gordo
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 20, 2020, 12:03:33 PM
If Ainge is really bold he could give us WALKER as well
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 20, 2020, 12:07:42 PM
3-85 for Gordo


Make it 4-120
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 20, 2020, 12:41:19 PM
Never mind the Walker idea - bonkers on our part

There is this re:  Bogdan.  Seeks 18 mil per

Bogdan Bogdanovic believes he can get a four-year offer for more than what the Milwaukee Bucks can do in a sign-and-trade with the Sacramento Kings. “The word on the street, I always have to be careful of this because I get in trouble, the word on the street is he thinks he can get an offer, or there’s belief that there’s offers out there that average $18 million per year,” said Brian Windhorst. “Somewhere in the four-year, $72 million range. That, I think a lot of people think would come from Atlanta. I think the most Milwaukee can do is something closer to the $15 million to $16 million per year range. Over four years, that’s $8 million or $9 million, depending on where all the decimal points go. That’s not an insignificant amount of money.

Aren't we in at this price?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on November 20, 2020, 01:11:43 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 20, 2020, 10:07:53 AM
Supposedly the talks were Turner and McDermott but Ainge wanted something more.

I find this hard to believe.
[/b]

I dont know - does Myles Turner really fit the current style of Celtics play - or their culture?

its the internet kid and there are lots of rumors out there.

If Gordo is healthy and can be a 20-6-4 type guy again, he's worth a lot. He's a smart player.

and he's probaby one of the better FAs out there, he'll get paid, or overpaid.

I dont know if Turner is the answer but he could be, he's still young and the Celts could use a decent big.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 20, 2020, 01:14:01 PM
Not sure if you followed that, Bank - but my comment was regarding why Ainge might turn down Turner/McDermott
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 20, 2020, 01:15:58 PM
I dont know if Turner is the answer but he could be, he's still young and the Celts could use a decent big.


The EXPENDITURE on Turner/McDermott is surely what is at issue
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on November 20, 2020, 01:16:36 PM
For all this talk about the Israeli Luka-lite, has anyone here really seen him play, or are your insights mostly derived from the internet and anonymous bloggers?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 20, 2020, 01:21:11 PM
Celts are fairly cash-strapped for 2021-22 - already owing almost 80 mil to Brown, Smart and Walker before even adding Tatum's increased pact.

Would they want to tack on Turner's 18 mil?

https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/BOS.html
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on November 20, 2020, 01:21:54 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 20, 2020, 01:15:58 PM
I dont know if Turner is the answer but he could be, he's still young and the Celts could use a decent big.


The EXPENDITURE on Turner/McDermott is surely what is at issue

Players and salaries can be traded.

I assume the issue for the Celts is maintaining the ability to replace 34 million in Gordo salary if gordo is gone.

IMO the flexibility to be able to spend is probably more important than not being able to get over the cap once you've fallen underneath it.

Turner (whoever) is either a player or placeholder for a future player.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 20, 2020, 01:23:13 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 20, 2020, 12:01:03 PM
So, what do we think - Hayward for Randle and our 2021 #1, top ten protected?

Would free up starter time for OBI

X
Barrett
Hayward
Toppin
X

3-85 for Gordo

Kiid

Hayward is an UNRESTRICTED FREE AGENT, and we have cap space to absorb him.

Only teams WITHOUT CAP SPACE would need to facilitate a sign & trade.  Hayward purportedly has a preference for his home state of Indiana.  The Pacers would need to match up salaries with the Celtics.  Hence the alleged Myles Turner/Doug McDermott offer, as their combined salaries check in at around $25 million. 

And there is no fucking way I offer him 28 million a year for three years.  Let alone give away our 2021 #1.  Are you fucking kidding me?  He is still a very fine player, with a good skill set, but 30 years old, and while coming off a good bounce back season, that broken leg he suffered took a yard or two off his fastball. 

If I were making anyone an offer, it would be Van Vleet, $20,000,000 x 4, though I suspect the Raptors top that without batting an eye. 

I do not buy into our "interest" in Westbrook.  We have coveted Bertans for a while, and he is a damn nice stretch 4, with one hell of a stroke, but we just drafted Toppin, who was hitting threes at just under a 40% clip lasy season, and Washington has the rights to match or exceed any offers as an RFA, unless somehow THAT became a sign and trade for Randle, and I am not as convinced as some that the Knicks are actively looking to unload Julius....blahblahblah....we shall see.  Also, silly me, I would rather give Portis 5 million than Bertans 20. 

Anyway, feeding frenzy kicks off at 6 tonight. 

PS: Hayward for 25-30 million?  No thanks.  Bogdonavich for 15-20 million?  That's more like it. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 20, 2020, 01:25:39 PM
Teams that do not NEED to do sign and trades often DO in order to free up money

In the case I offered we would be getting out of Randle's pact in order to more easily afford Hayward - again reasoning that Toppin might be ready to fill Julius's minutes

Peace.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 20, 2020, 01:30:09 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on November 20, 2020, 01:21:54 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 20, 2020, 01:15:58 PM
I dont know if Turner is the answer but he could be, he's still young and the Celts could use a decent big.


The EXPENDITURE on Turner/McDermott is surely what is at issue

Players and salaries can be traded.

I assume the issue for the Celts is maintaining the ability to replace 34 million in Gordo salary if gordo is gone.

IMO the flexibility to be able to spend is probably more important than not being able to get over the cap once you've fallen underneath it.

Turner (whoever) is either a player or placeholder for a future player.

Bank, Turner is down, but McDermott's 7 million comes off the books next summer. 

Turner would be a great pickup for the Celtics.  Williams could more naturally contribute at PF, and Kanter could back up at center.  And you'd still have that other cat at center, Pries is it, a nice player.  Turner has the best attributes of all the current Celtics bigs, with way more range on his jumper. 

And yes, I watched some clips of Devi on line, and he is a very skilled player...excellent passer, good defender, nice range.  He is NOT LUKA, but he is a smart, solid, team-oriented player. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 20, 2020, 01:31:37 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 20, 2020, 01:25:39 PM
Teams that do not NEED to do sign and trades often DO in order to free up money

In the case I offered we would be getting out of Randle's pact in order to more easily afford Hayward - again reasoning that Toppin might be ready to fill Julius's minutes

Peace.

Understood.

But no reason to dangle our #1 for 2021, which is to my mind, a non-starter.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 20, 2020, 01:34:24 PM
Ed Davis is skinny, has Keon Clark legs.
That's why I was saying he's not a C.

I'd $18M Bogdanovich.
If we're not using that money on FVV.

Bogdan x 2 is what folks hope Ty Halliburton can become.

Btw, the TyH draft roller-coaster ride was interesting.
He went from being considered a combo G with an okay handle and good shooting numbers but an odd release.  A potential starter.  To being called an exceptional defender and elite passer and terrific shooter.  Presto, he was perhaps Top 5.  Potential all-star.  And then the hype settled down in the last week and he dropped to 12th.  I was debating Vassell or TyH, and the Spurs took Vassal (though could be because they have DeRozan and a hole at SF, but they like 3&D wings).

I don't know if his workouts were terrific or he just had a good agent/hype team.  But that was odd.  Hayes got hype for a week or two which then faded.  But nothing like TyH who sounded like two different players within a few weeks of himself.
I'm interested to see how late risers Pat Williams and Okoro look.  Both on funky team where they will get minutes.  Also, seeing how these second rounders do.  Lotta guys that went in Rd 2 could show out well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 20, 2020, 01:38:32 PM
Knicks are in GREAT shape with the cap right now - with that Hayward-Randle deal would be even better off

About 70 mil spent between Knox, Davis, Barrett, Frank, Mitch, DSJ, Bullock, OBI, Quickley and Hayward.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 20, 2020, 01:46:41 PM
R:;  seeing how 2nd rounders do

UNDRAFTEDS as well (we have just the one name thus far for Knicks camp)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 20, 2020, 02:05:53 PM
I wouldn't be dropping 4 years or huge money on Haywire.
Nice player, getting older with an injury history.

I kept saying that the Celts should trade Haywood.  And everyone thought I was crazy.
Now might lose him for nothing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 20, 2020, 02:09:11 PM
When he was crippled?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 20, 2020, 02:46:27 PM
GH for three full years at 78 mil, if he wants it, surrendering no assets.

If we’re going to open our stash box, it should be to call New Orleans about their plethora of Guards.

Bledsoe, Lonzo, Hill, Alex-Walker, and now Kira is five deep at PG. any of the first 3, Bledsoe, Ball, or Hill would be a get for us.

What would Griffin want in exchange?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on November 20, 2020, 04:04:21 PM
Carlos a Kanter update!!!

Celts trade Enes to Portland for TPE

they're down a big man.

I hope DA can find a solution
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 20, 2020, 04:29:58 PM
According to SI.com’s Chris Mannix, the Knicks are no longer considering acquiring Russell Westbrook in a trade and have now reallocated their interest.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 20, 2020, 04:30:58 PM
Don't be surprised if by tomorrow you see the headline "Knicks have acquired Russell Westbrook"
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 20, 2020, 04:58:34 PM
Kenrich Williams has hit UFA. I’d like to bring him on for wing depth on a small money deal.

Word is we have an offer out for GH...

Enes returns to the land of port where his portliness is truly appreciated.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on November 20, 2020, 06:08:10 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 20, 2020, 11:58:10 AM
Antonio Davis options with Lakers -

2 years, 68 mil (option on year 2)
3 years, 106 mil (option on year 3)
4 years, 147
5 years, 189

Davis will take at least through Thanksgiving to mull his decision.

I'm debating cranberry sauce or not for Thanksgiving.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 20, 2020, 06:09:27 PM
Kanter with value - imagine that

, Kam - we will not be hearing any more about Westbrook.  Clearly our eggs are in 3 baskets -

Hayward
Davis
Harden
Title: Celtics get a $5 mil trade exception in the deal
Post by: Kam on November 20, 2020, 06:37:10 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 20, 2020, 06:09:27 PM
Kanter with value - imagine that


Boston trades the #30 pick and Kanter for future draft considerations from Memphis. 
Kanter was given the choice between Memphis & Portland and preferrred his role with the Blazers, per source.
BOS creates a $5m trade exception in this deal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 20, 2020, 06:41:18 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 20, 2020, 06:09:27 PM
Clearly our eggs are in 3 baskets -

Hayward
Davis
Harden

Davis Bertans
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 20, 2020, 07:09:43 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 20, 2020, 03:19:34 AM

I probably need to adjust my salaries downward.  Tough financial climate, fans likely to be limited, revenue down, few teams with cap space.  3/$18 for Hark or Portis?  Wouldn't that make them bargains and tradeable?

Capologist Bobby Marks, in free-agent projections, thought Portis could be had for $4 million per year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 20, 2020, 07:18:20 PM
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2020/11/trail-blazers-to-acquire-enes-kanter-from-celtics.html

Something for everyone in this deal
Title: SACRAMENTO KINGS
Post by: Kam on November 20, 2020, 07:34:35 PM
De’Aaron Fox agrees to $163 million rookie-scale extension with Kings

They drafted TyH and locked in Fox. 

Are they going to move Heild?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 20, 2020, 07:54:23 PM
No.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 20, 2020, 07:58:43 PM
Roundup - DET adds Okafor, Plumlee

(it has been said Dedmon will be moving on to another locale)

https://www.nba.com/news/nba-offseason-2020-nov-20-roundup
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 20, 2020, 08:02:43 PM
Knicks add MATHIAS LESSORT


Lessort played in the 2013 Nike Global Challenge, averaging 19.5 points, 7.8 rebounds and 1.3 blocks a game,[16] while receiving International All-Tournament Team honors.[17]

He represented France at the 2014[18] and 2015 U20 European Championships. In 2015, he averaged 4.1 points and 5.1 rebounds en route to a semifinal appearance
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 20, 2020, 08:04:41 PM
TRADES


https://www.nba.com/news/2020-nba-draft-trade-tracker
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 20, 2020, 08:24:19 PM
Clarkson gets 4-52
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 20, 2020, 08:58:09 PM
Have to believe Hayward going to his desired Indiana has to - and will - include Vic Oladipo getting to Boston
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 20, 2020, 09:04:12 PM
https://www.nbadraft.net/players/mathias-lessort/ (https://www.nbadraft.net/players/mathias-lessort/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 20, 2020, 09:05:24 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 20, 2020, 08:58:09 PM
Have to believe Hayward going to his desired Indiana has to - and will - include Vic Oladipo getting to Boston

I don't have to believe that.
Title: LOL Chip
Post by: carlos123 on November 20, 2020, 09:24:37 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 20, 2020, 02:30:54 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on November 20, 2020, 12:32:33 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 20, 2020, 12:22:31 AM

I'd sign Gordo and flip him for MyTurn (and figure things out later).
Of course that would work much better if we had just selected Avdija instead of Topping.  I miss Avdija.

Hope Top Dog works out, but I would have taken Avdija, TyH and Vassell ahead of ObiT.

BoZ, you makin too much sense, funny names and all.
I’m sure Chamaco will have some trumpian kind of retort.

You might not have to wait for him. 

Got to get past me with that pendejo pandering pizz...more Henry Wallace than George Wallace.

I agree with BoZ ONCE, and I'm pandering?

LOL!!!

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/UhJplxmdkBrbKUH9I-OOBcUJ_UwlkGjSdTz-UusQrzHv-8k7C8oZT5b4NNx8jnv8Jp-n8Vk8ZyEkdYrJra3CC00XtfF7j3MjaRSYvh7iGXcbRYOAXUJtPVdY1LGe-ByJ5Psg0C1xJgvdmOY8p7HJ8iKpZTvE--hDXTODjiBQRTjKb7yz3AJnqr4z6RskkMJQ2g0L45NgVto7RDYtYFWic2bzpao0L49tNjag3EKeCUNU6i0qIaKROUleXUFoxiCZFaRsGamcMeL4ri2vqFOoPsEpkri9A1fdRqVwQtjXZGLd56_lbOP-z8b0befdHB4BTxwgQ03a9T7UYDlULC4f1qoesa-tBjXQo76WCjla63ecyYj8xHmBunwD8BH_jGztcU4zMD4R8rwNKFkDNWDKk_1eZdomnDEVgWC4dUQBjeu3PByTBhryCRTkdS_t_KCLX8px3orIbteYlxx7oSjLIwoS3V65kIs03WxBL-zY7MMz93U2eB3jBj8hLO7vAC-tKnod1bksFChBpYSjcjAefou6lwzNUa1vGdZKfbG7rEzkBfBHVvTVLpLgsRstuH6ZlPutFY0JiXVVUpalmNMtrAbM2-TnZVbZee29S_msZO4oBp3c1HlR8Bi2ktAz8ESlseguMVhB5gxCuYOhpa8j_Fv7ySGgOFdsarcTNkupXgXtndAdQvQW1wiKxcR3=w588-h757-no?authuser=0)

PS. I certainly prefer Henry Wallace to George Wallace, don't you?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 20, 2020, 10:17:10 PM
Knicks to sign ALEC BURKS

1 year 6 mil
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 20, 2020, 10:19:11 PM
Beasley, Bertans, Harrell and J Grant are all off the board
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 20, 2020, 10:20:18 PM
Grant got 3-60, Bertans 5-80

Joe Harris gets 4-75

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 20, 2020, 10:39:57 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 20, 2020, 10:17:10 PM
Knicks to sign ALEC BURKS

1 year 6 mil

An old favorite of BoD as I recall. 

Ed Davis and Alec Burks for $5 & $6 million respectively.

Curious, no? 

Once Again.....The UTAH JAZZ Connection.     

Can Bobby Portis be far behind?
Title: Sloppy Seconds
Post by: chipstern on November 20, 2020, 10:44:02 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 20, 2020, 10:39:57 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 20, 2020, 10:17:10 PM
Knicks to sign ALEC BURKS

1 year 6 mil

An old favorite of BoD as I recall. 

Ed Davis and Alec Burks for $5 & $6 million respectively.

Reggie Jackson anyone? 

Curious, no? 

Once Again.....The UTAH JAZZ Connection.     

Can Bobby Portis be far behind?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 20, 2020, 10:57:54 PM
I’m pleased with the Burks signing. He’s probably a starter at this point.

Detroit got a good deal w Grant. Harris back to Nyets for just a bit less than Bertrans got.


We’re at

Mitch Ed
Jules Obi Kevin
Alec Reggie Iggy
RJ Manny
Frank Dennis

A dozen so far.
Title: Alec Burks
Post by: Kam on November 20, 2020, 11:03:29 PM
Ellington becomes Burks.  That's an upgrade.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 20, 2020, 11:12:51 PM
Detroit is stretching Dedmon. We should pick him up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 20, 2020, 11:26:21 PM
Thibs cannot be satisfied.  Waiting for the big splash.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 21, 2020, 12:21:36 AM
Burks has strong ties to former Jazz assistant coach, now Knicks associate head coach Johnnie Bryant

Alec Burks was in his second year with the Utah Jazz when Johnnie Bryant joined the franchise as a low-level assistant coach. Suddenly, Burks’ development gained an important ally.

“I thought I was working hard,” Burks said in an interview with the Daily News. “But he showed me there’s a different level to be good in this league. And I feel like he brought me to that level.”

Bryant not only dedicated his nights to training sessions, he became close to the player’s family. It was a focused and personalized training that fostered an enduring relationship.

By Bryant’s second season with he Jazz, Burks had transformed from an unproductive reserve to averaging 14 points on 46% shooting in 2013-14.
Title: Marcus Morris
Post by: Kam on November 21, 2020, 12:55:47 AM
Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn

Free agent Marcus Morris has agreed to return to the Clippers, source tells ESPN.
Deal: 4 years, $64M, per source.
Title: Pistons
Post by: Kam on November 21, 2020, 01:07:57 AM
Detroit draft sign and trade Bigs at an alarming rate.

Entering the draft on Wednesday, the Pistons had just one center on the roster, Justin Patton.
They selected Washington center Isaiah Stewart with the 16th pick in the first round.
They traded with the Hawks to get Dewayne Dedmon (who they have waived using the stretch provision). 
They also added Tony Bradley in a draft-night deal with the Utah Jazz.
Patton was later traded to the Trail Blazers.
Today they added Mason Plumlee and Jahlil Okafor.
Title: Steven Adams traded from OKC
Post by: Kam on November 21, 2020, 01:37:03 AM
Joining ZION in N'awlins
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 21, 2020, 02:52:50 AM
I’m prepared to be disgusted by how little we could have forked over to sign Hayward and what we wind up doing with the money instead.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 21, 2020, 02:54:09 AM
JaMychal Green to Denver for 15 over 2 years. Nice deal.
Title: Thunder
Post by: Kam on November 21, 2020, 03:26:43 AM
Mike Vorkunov
@MikeVorkunov
Thunder will have traded with 12 teams since moratorium lifted if this Pelicans/Nuggets 3-way deal goes through. In 5 days Sam Presti has made deals w/ more than 1/3 of NBA (Lakers, Wolves, Suns, 76ers, Warriors, Boston, Knicks, Wizards; now Mavericks, Pistons, NOP, and Denver).
Title: Disgruntled in SH
Post by: bodiddley on November 21, 2020, 03:44:25 AM
What we sitting on our hands for??

So we give $11M to Ed Davis & Alec Burks?
When Montrezl went for $9.25M (the midlevel exception).
Just a 2/$18.5M deal.  Maybe he wanted a title shot with Lakes, but we couldn't have given him $11M or $12M?  I'd like Montrezl next to Mitch.  NYK fans would love Harrell.

Similarly Christian Wood, 25 went for 3/$41.  So that's starting at around $13M.

We drafted Toppings so now 2 of our 4 of our best players are PF's with poor defense and limited to one position.
PF & C are the two easiest positions to fill, and fill with value, as the money goes to gunners and wings and PG's these days, and teams favor multi-position players

So instead of Ed Davis (a fave of mine, but damn old role player) and Alec Burks (a mistake journeyman) for $11M, we (probably) could have had Christian Wood or Montrezl for roughly the same money.  And drafted Avdija an all-around SF; TyH a smooth combo G; or Vassell an excellent 3&D wing.

Who you want?
Wood/Montrezl - Avdija
or
Toppings - Davis - Burks
??

A somewhat typical ObiT write-up, though this draft mocker had him down to 11th:
Quote
Obi Toppin – Dayton – 6’9, 220 lbs – March 1998

The best player in college basketball last season, Toppin should provide instant offense at the next level. He is a terrific leaper, dunking the ball 107 times in 31 games. He can also stretch the floor, shooting 39% from three on 2.6 attempts. Getting defenses to fully respect his shot will be the key, but I buy he’ll be able to shoot.

Despite being a safe bet to be a good offensive player, Toppin is pretty rough on defense. He lacks the height and strength to guard centers and he’s not agile enough on the perimeter to guard fours. His pick-and-roll coverage is tough to watch, as his high center of gravity makes it hard for him to turn. Toppin’s upside is limited given he’s already 22 years old. Toppin will come in and help teams on the offensive end from the go, but the lack of defensive potential is what has me a bit lower on him.

Don't like the direction we're headed ...

Bo's Knix:
PG? - RJB - Avdija - Wood/Montrezl - Mitch
Randle - Knox - Franc

Yeah, Randle would likely start, but we'd be looking to move him.
With roughly $12M to Wood/Montrezl, we'd still have $24M for FVV.
I'd offer it out there.
FVV - RJB - Avdija - Wood/Montrezl - Mitch
I'd be excited.  That's a real team, on the rise, making the playoffs in the East.

If FVV wouldn't bite, then you still have $24M to find a PG and role players.
Rondo?  Bledsoe?  Dragic?  Rubio hasn't been traded in the last 20 hours ...


Title: Would you rather
Post by: Kam on November 21, 2020, 04:09:36 AM
TyH/Avidja or FVV/Hayward?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 21, 2020, 05:03:27 AM
I'm not following ...
How could we get both FVV and Haywire?

But given the yute of RJB/Mitch/Knox/Franc, I'd rather one of FVV/Haywood and one of Avdija/TyH/Vassal.  And of course we need the PG much more.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 21, 2020, 05:49:11 AM
Bertans and Beasley overpaid.
A 5 year dealio for Bertans?  Yikes.

Jerami Grant cashed in nicely.
I think I was talking $16M -$18M.
He got 3/$60M.

NYK Burks 6th team in 3 years!
Our new Wayne Ellington
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on November 21, 2020, 10:42:25 AM
No Moe....
Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
Free agent F Moe Harkless has agreed to a one-year, $3.6M deal with the Miami Heat, sources tell ESPN.

no grades until it's all over, but a less than uplifting FA season for the Knicks...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 21, 2020, 10:59:58 AM
Quote from: Jack Straw on November 21, 2020, 10:42:25 AM
No Moe....
Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
Free agent F Moe Harkless has agreed to a one-year, $3.6M deal with the Miami Heat, sources tell ESPN.

no grades until it's all over, but a less than uplifting FA season for the Knicks...

Nothing wrong with keeping your powder dry for better fish. I'm not seeing anything we could have done, I would have done. I don't want to see one Moe Harkless minute over a Toppin or Knox or RJ minute. Plenty to see if season starts tomorrow. Plenty for Thibs to coach.
Title: Bobby Portis
Post by: chipstern on November 21, 2020, 12:20:43 PM
Milwaukee
Title: Re: Bobby Portis
Post by: chipstern on November 21, 2020, 12:23:20 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 21, 2020, 12:20:43 PM
Milwaukee

Moe Harkless to Miami. 

Robin Lopez to Washington, I'm told. 
Title: WouldaCouldaShoulda
Post by: chipstern on November 21, 2020, 01:35:05 PM
Be interested to see what Milwaukee committed to Portis.  They dropped ERSAN ILYASOVA. 

David Aldridge: Likely a two-year (1+1) deal for Bobby Portis in Milwaukee, with player option second year, likely to come in around $8M. – via Twitter davidaldridgedc

So 8 million for one year or for $4 million x two? 

Shams Charania: Free agent guard DJ Augustin has agreed to a three-year, $21M deal with Milwaukee, sources tell @TheAthleticNBA @Stadium. – via Twitter ShamsCharania

Interesting.  So now they have Jrue & DJ.  Shores up their back court significantly.  Plus they still have DiVincenzo. 

POST MORTEMS

For those seeking logic, and in the tradition of BOY DID THE KNICKS FUCK UP, my inveterate rose tinged glasses notwithstanding, in purusing some logic, I would appear to be lining up with Dawg here on our moves. 

Knicks were all in on Toppin.  One might assume that Thibs shared that approach. 

Some are assuming that Obi sucks on defense, and that's the end of it.  One might assume Thibs will have something to say about that. 

Ed Davis a one year commitment at PF-C for $5 Million and Alec Burke for $6 million as a combo guard/shapshooter. 

ONE YEAR.  For $5 & $6 as opposed to 8-10-15.  Exhale folks. 

And so far our two way contracts are 5'11 Auburn PG Jared Harper and...I am not quite sure of the status of 6'2" Seton Hall combo guard Myles Powell

WouldaCouldaShoulda

OK

Christian Wood? 

What, 3 years for 40-something million.  Nice.  We have Robinson and Randle AND TOPPIN.  Once we got Toppin, the interest in Wood surely cooled. 

Well, we could have drafted Haiiburton and signed Wood. 

True.  ASSUMING Wood was a lock.  With Robinson and Randle still on board. 

Harrell.  Numbers he got looked tenable.  Assuming MH would have accepted such numbers from the Knicks as opposed to THE FUCKING WORLD CHAMPION LAKERS where he will be part of a rotation with . 

Deni Avdija?

A great talent.  No doubt. 

Logic? 

Debateable.  Would CHIP have selected him over Toppin?

It surely crossed my mind, as did the other players I liked, Haliburton and Vassell. 

I never imagined BOTH Avdija AND Toppin would be there for the Knicks at #8. 

Logic?

You'd have to ask Thibs and Walt Perrin, but as of this morning the Knicks have Robinson and Davis and Randle and Toppin to find minutes at the five and the four. 

At the 3 spot?  Well, let's see? 

Knox and Brazdeikis.  One could also project big wings Bullock and RJ.  Even Ntilinkina. 

Exempting RJ from that discussion for a second, might one prefer Deni? 

Sure.  But we would appear to have some commitment to Kevin Knox's development, let alone to Brzdeikis, which would've been mitigated by Avdija or Vassell. 

AH, BUT WE COULD TRADE THEM. 

And get what back?  Also, it might appear, and I cannot speak for Dawg, that we are more sanguine on Knox's upside that many on this forum.  STAY TUNED. 

WouldaCouldaShoulda

Me?  I woulda liked a 1 + 1 for Portis as $4 million with a player option. 

Defense apparently the decider in favor of Ed Davis, let alone that Portis would want more minutes. 

Burke?  A big combo role player.  One year.  We are now commited long term to Quickley as our combo guard.  And we are giving a LookSee at Myles Powell.   

So WAZZUP with PG?

Ah so. 

Dennis Smith.  Frank Ntilikina.  Jared Harper.
Alex Burke.  Myles Powell.  Immanuel Quickley. 

Three points.  Three combos. 

The last shoe has yet to drop, but it would appear, we are keeping our options, as limited as they presently seem, open at the POINT. 

Acknowledging Elfrid Payton's solid playmaking and defense his shooting limitations [and .203 % from trey, and 49-86 FT takes and makes], his presence, and the clear preference our interim Mike Miller had for him, queered the development of Dennis Smith and French Frank.  Much as the presence of Mudiay and Trey Burke kept Frank off the floor.  So....

SO...are we going into the season with Dennis and Frank as our bell cows at the POINT?

Waiting for that other shoe. 

Rondo is highly unlikely. 

Reggie Jackson is still out there.  So is Eric Bledsoe.  Who else?  Do we really want to set up a Payton-Mudiay-Burke roadblock for Dennis and Frank on their player option years with a Jackson or Bledsoe? 

I would certainly take a look at Reggie Jackson, though clearly, Detroit was wont to move on from him, what with Killian Hayes.  And Derrick Rose. 

But would Jackson pout if not given the keys to the car?  He pouted his way out of OKC.  And as a Piston, in this first half a season with Detroit, he averaged 9.6 assists, but on a downward trend ever since.  He is a very fine FT shooter and a good three point man.  Not up to speed on his D, but a scoring PG it would seem, and after Detroit offloaded him to the Clips, in lieu of Rose, he did not shine for LA in the bubble. 

So there we are, Knicks fans, confounded as usual, obsessed with life in the realm of CouldaWouldaShoulda, and really, those are all legit critiques. 

And we understand why Knicks fans might be underwhlemed by our forays into free agency. 

Rose Colored Chip?

We still have $29 million in cap space.  And do not appear to be in any rush to spend it.  GOOD. 

Gordon Hayward?  Russell Westbrook?  John Wall? 

BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR, Knicks Fans.   
Title: THIS JUST IN
Post by: chipstern on November 21, 2020, 01:40:13 PM
Adrian Wojnarowski: Free agent Gordon Hayward is signing a 4-year, $120M deal with Charlotte, per source. – via Twitter wojespn
Title: Hope Springs Eternal
Post by: chipstern on November 21, 2020, 01:45:12 PM
Knicks have interest in Kentavious Caldwell-Pope

Brad Turner: Sources: The New York Knicks have interest in free agent guard Kentavious Caldwell-Pope. Lakers also have interest. For KCP, he wants the right deal at the right price. – via Twitter BA_Turner

Showed a TON in the Finals. 

What of RJ, though?

And things would start to get crowded at the 3-spot and the 2-spot. 

Not saying I wouldn't do it, but is it really tenable with RJ, Kevin, Brazdeikis, Bullock and Quickley vying for minutes at the 3 & 2 spots.   

Says here that Lakers find a way to make things work, though they DID just get Scroeder. 

We shall see. 

Hey, how about them Hornets?

Adding both Hayward AND Ball. 

Gordon now the bell cow at $30 million a year.

Still prepared to be upset, Facil? 

So

Hayward at SF-PF, but 90% SF, with Miles Bridges and PJ Washington in the mix as SF-PFs, with Zeller and Duke's Vernon Carey at center, and with Jalen McDaniels at PF.

Backcourt Rotation? 

Ball, Rozier, Graham, Monk. 

Michael Jordan appears to have had a run of luck and a dose of smarts. 

My son in law will be happy as a Charlotte native. 
Title: Re: Would you rather
Post by: Kam on November 21, 2020, 01:51:17 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 21, 2020, 04:09:36 AM
TyH/Avidja or FVV/Hayward?

Quote from: bodiddley on November 21, 2020, 05:03:27 AM
I'm not following ...
How could we get both FVV and Haywire?


How could we have both TyH and Avidja?

We had one high draft pick and we used it on a guy that didn't really have a comparable in Free Agency.

But you could go after FVV intstead of draft TyH or persue Gordo instead of draft Avidja.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 21, 2020, 01:52:09 PM
FVF back with the Tampa Raps. 4 for 85 or something like that.

As prepared as I was, it turns out I’m not at all disgusted that we won’t be paying 30 mil a year for GH.

Next...

We HAVE to spend 10-15 mil more to hit the salary floor, don’t we?

Got 3 new future second round picks to use in salary absorbing trades...



Title: MINIMUM SALARY FLOOR
Post by: chipstern on November 21, 2020, 02:12:25 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 21, 2020, 01:52:09 PM
FVF back with the Tampa Raps. 4 for 85 or something like that.

As prepared as I was, it turns out I’m not at all disgusted that we won’t be paying 30 mil a year for GH.

Next...

We HAVE to spend 10-15 mil more to hit the salary floor, don’t we?

Got 3 new future second round picks to use in salary absorbing trades...

FACIL, you are a genius. 

I had not at ALL considred the capologist ramifications, but that is the guy we brought on from Cleveland with Perrin, Aller was it? 

All of a sudden, the one year deals for Ed and Alec make more sense. 

$98.226 million was the 2019-2020 base minimum. 

Let's see...

https://hoopshype.com/salaries/new_york_knicks/ (https://hoopshype.com/salaries/new_york_knicks/)

Counting the $1 million Payton, Gibson and Ellington are due, and the 6.4 we stretch on Noah for the next two years. 

That is $60,397,000

Plus 11 for Davis and Burke, that brings us to $71. 

Rookie scale for the #8 is $4.4, and for #25 is $1.75. 

Do not believe we are allowed to pay them more for their first seasons, so....like $6.25.

Which brings us up to 77-78. 

So where does that leave us with cap space?  Like $23 million?  And we cannot just sit on that? 

Need to spend another $14 million to reach 91 million. 

Would KCP accept 14 million from the Knicks, with their log jam at the 2 & 3 [a log jam DA would've added to].

Hmmm, interesting. 

If so, we might be seeing RJ playing not only the 2 and the 3, but some 1 as well. 
Title: Flex Going Forward
Post by: chipstern on November 21, 2020, 02:32:02 PM
Suddenly, starting to make a bit more sense.

Leon Rose's significant hires/additions to the front office, including a one year deal for Scott Perry and the addition of World Wide Wes....

Brock Aller was hired as vice president of basketball and strategic planning, Walt Perrin is the assistant general manager for college scouting and Frank Zanin the assistant general manager for pro scouting.

Aller spent seven seasons with the Cleveland Cavaliers, the last three as senior director of basketball operations. Perrin had been with the Utah Jazz for 19 seasons, including the final 12 as vice president of player personnel.  Zanin is a former assistant general manager for the Brooklyn Nets and had most recently worked as Oklahoma City's pro scout for three years.

If you look at Walt Perrin's track record as far as personnel moves and draft picks for the Utah Jazz, it has been pretty stellar.  So if he AND Thibs signed off on Toppin when we had a shot at DA, well, it doth give one pause. 

And again, the Jazz connection notwithstanding, $5 and $6 million might seem a touch dear for role players, but on one year deals, they will be happy, and we do not strap on any long term commitments. 

Plus, THEY KNOW THEY ARE ROLE PLAYERS.

I really wanted Portis back, and at $4 million it would've made sense, but even before the Davis trade, he would be behind Mitchell at center, and well behind Randle and Toppin at the 4, and one has to believe that was an issue for him last year. 

Portis will still be behind Lopez and Giannis on the Bucks, but his three point range fits with Lopez's at the 5, and that is not yet an area of consistency for the Greek, although it is sure coming on.  Oh, and Robin Lopez just left the Bucks for the Wizards, so a nice pickup for the Bucks. 

Portis will be seeing at least 20-25 a night on a contender, with a chance to get a fatter contract next summer. 

Meanwhile, the Heat let Crowder walk to the Suns 3 years at 30 million, but picked up Avery Bradley.  GREAT PICKUP.  Team option second year.  Two Years at $11.56

Ah, but the Knicks could've picked him up for that money.

TRUE

But then we would've had the same log jam connundrum in front of Dennis and Frank as with Burke, Mudiay and Payton. 

The thinking seems to be to shadow them with better shooters, such as Burke and Quickley.  Also, Burke and Quckley and Barrett can all shoulder some situational minutes at the point, and then there is Jared Harper. 

There seems a certain logic in going after KCP.  He would COST, but not Hayward money.  LIkewise, we could do a 1 + 1 or a 2 + 1 a la Randle, front load more money, and give a team option for the second or third season.  If he likes the money and the flex, so both sides can get to know each other and maintain flex. 

PS: There would seem to be flex in arranging all of these numbers to bring back Taj Gibson at numbers commensurate with what the Sixers gave Dwight Howard. 

PS: COME ON KNICKS, STOP MAKING SENSE. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 21, 2020, 02:36:17 PM
I agree Chipwich -- Nice job by CHA:
Ball/Rozier - Graham/Monk - Hayward/Bridges - PJ Wash/McDaniels - Zeller/Biyombo
Young.  I'd fill in with a vet or two.
Could use a C upgrade.  But Zeller is useful if healthy.
And they can go small with Bridges at the 4.
Gonna need to catch some of their games.
They might be up for another move, but I like where they're at.

As for the Knix, we're not getting much done.
I don't like our team ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 21, 2020, 02:38:54 PM
 Jonathan Macri
@JCMacriNBA

If ever there were an opportunity to use Julius Randle in a productive way (I.e., not as LeBron James lite - cc: Coach Fiz) it would be to send him to Charlotte for Batum and Zeller in exchange for the Hornets VERY lightly protected 2021 first.

Keith Smith
@KeithSmithNBA

For Charlotte to add Gordon Hayward they have to:

-Work a S&T with Boston

-Trade away $7.5M in salary elsewhere

-Waive and stretch Nic Batum at about $9M a year for the next three years
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 21, 2020, 02:41:54 PM
Quote
The Bucks are signing Portis using their bi-annual exception, tweets ESPN’s Bobby Marks. That will mean a $3.6MM first-year salary with a $3.8MM option for 2021/22.

Montrezl reportedly turned down more money from LAC, so probably wouldn't have come Knickward.

Also, not sure A Very Bradley would come to Knickland for the same money he got (2/$10M) or more.  Players like to compete.

But Christian Wood was doable.

Topping = poor defender and uni-position fella.
Something of a younger svelter bouncier Randle.

And he would develop faster/better with a genuine PG running the show.
RJB and Mitch as well.

Maybe Knix have something up their sleeve or they heard KCP always wanted to play Point.
Bledsoe, Rubio, RegJax (is he uncrippled?), Rozier?  Brrr ...
Title: Re: THIS JUST IN
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 21, 2020, 02:42:52 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 21, 2020, 01:40:13 PM
Adrian Wojnarowski: Free agent Gordon Hayward is signing a 4-year, $120M deal with Charlotte, per source. – via Twitter wojespn

Well, one of us said that was possible.....

NBA Radio guys ripping Ainge a new one for not taking Turner but

a)  Danny didnt want Gordo in Indiana where he could kill the Celts come playoff time

and

b)  I really think there were aspects of Turner that Ainge did not like.

Still a chance Biyombo or Zeller is involved - coming back.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 21, 2020, 02:45:56 PM
Meanwhile, the Heat let Crowder walk to the Suns 3 years at 30 million, but picked up Avery Bradley.  GREAT PICKUP.  Team option second year.  Two Years at $11.56

Ah, but the Knicks could've picked him up for that money.

TRUE

Not true
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 21, 2020, 02:48:05 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 21, 2020, 02:38:54 PM
Jonathan Macri
@JCMacriNBA
If ever there were an opportunity to use Julius Randle in a productive way (I.e., not as LeBron James lite - cc: Coach Fiz) it would be to send him to Charlotte for Batum and Zeller in exchange for the Hornets VERY lightly protected 2021 first.

Wait, this guy thinks CHA is going to give up their starting C and a 1st round pick fir Randle and to drop Batum's contract?
Is Randle gonna man the paint for them?
They've got two young PF's.
Better off just stretching Batum.

Title: Boring Versus Stupid
Post by: chipstern on November 21, 2020, 02:50:10 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 21, 2020, 02:36:17 PM
I agree Chipwich -- Nice job by CHA:
Ball/Rozier - Graham/Monk - Hayward/Bridges - PJ Wash/McDaniels - Zeller/Biyombo
Young.  I'd fill in with a vet or two.
Could use a C upgrade.  But Zeller is useful if healthy.
And they can go small with Bridges at the 4.
Gonna need to catch some of their games.
They might be up for another move, but I like where they're at.

As for the Knix, we're not getting much done.
I don't like our team ...

A) I disagree

B) We disagree on Toppin and Quickley

C) Not aggressive enough?  No Jerome James five year contracts.  No super duper free agents reaches?

D) Not getting a lot done?  Seriously?  I am, again, THRILLED, that we are not swinging for the fucking fences, but getting a walk, sacrifice bunt, steal third, score on a sac fly. 

Look.  Our past Knicks would've gone for the big move.  Give no thought for tomorrow as a prophet once suggested to his followers. 

Chris Paul clearly could've been here, if THAT WAS HIS CHOICE.   But clearly he thought the team situation in Phoenix, his connection to Monty Williams, and proximity to his family in LA was more important. 

K?

Are you upset because we didn't trade Randle and Dennis/Knox for Westbrook?

Or given Gordon Haywatd a guaranteed 30 million a year for the next four years? 

Asked and answered. 

So, you prefered DA to Toppin.  I get it.  A great talent. 

But Toppin and Quickley ain't shit?  Really. 

And conservative moves such as Davis [thumbs up] and Burke [thumbs down] flummox you?

Fair enough.

But again, I am quite pleased by the caution and eyes on the future this Knicks front office has displayed. 

And no, I do not look at the bargain prices for Portis or Bradley or realative prices for a Wood or Montrell and go, that could've been US.  WOULD WE HAVE GOTTEN THOSE PRICES? 

In any event, it's Saturday and the worst you can say is BORING? 

As opposed to MANIFESTLY FUCKING STUPID?

I'll take it. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 21, 2020, 02:50:14 PM
Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn

The Hornets will waive Nic Batum to create cap space to sign Gordon Hayward, reports
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 21, 2020, 02:53:46 PM
Not saying I wouldn't do it, but is it really tenable with RJ, Kevin, Brazdeikis, Bullock and Quickley vying for minutes at the 3 & 2 spots.   


Volume of players doesnt equal a logjam

KCP gets the bulk (starts) at the 2, RJ at the 3.

Quickley bides his time and competes with Frank.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 21, 2020, 02:54:24 PM
If we somehow grab Teague, Dedmon, and KCP, it will be a good retool of the roster in my book.

Mitch Dedmon Davis

Randle Obi Knox

Burks Bullock Iggy

RJ KCP Quickley

Frank Teague DSJ

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 21, 2020, 02:54:59 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 21, 2020, 02:41:54 PM

Topping = Something of a younger svelter bouncier Randle.


Reminds me of this quote last year:

Enes Kanter is counted among those throwing shade, specifically at Zion Williamson.
Kanter said Zion was "just Julius Randle with hops" in a recent appearance on Fox Sports 1.

Title: Meanwhile...
Post by: chipstern on November 21, 2020, 02:55:31 PM
Wall wants out of Washington. 

K. 

Wall for Westbrook? 

Curiouser and Curiouser. 

As for Bradley?

Quite right, Kiid?

That was play for a finalist money he accepted.

Not play for a retool, as is the case here. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 21, 2020, 02:57:32 PM
We’ve pretty much got to overpay at this point.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on November 21, 2020, 02:58:09 PM
Gordo got on the high end of my 25-30 for 4 yrs  estimate.

He liked Charlotte's $120M more than Indy $100M.

Go figure

Apparently the cost including Batum's dead money cap hit will be $39MM for the next 3 yrs.

Not happy about losing Gordo for nothing, but on the bright side it opens minutes for some young uns who show promise.

Adios Gordo

Good luck in Charlotte.

we hardly knew ye

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 21, 2020, 03:03:30 PM

Enes Kanter is counted among those throwing shade, specifically at Zion Williamson.
Kanter said Zion was "just Julius Randle with hops" in a recent appearance on Fox Sports 1

Uh.... sure....

Z shoots it better as well

OBI "bouncier" than Randle?  Not too sure of that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 21, 2020, 03:04:55 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 21, 2020, 03:03:30 PM

Enes Kanter is counted among those throwing shade, specifically at Zion Williamson.
Kanter said Zion was "just Julius Randle with hops" in a recent appearance on Fox Sports 1

Uh.... sure....



You don't get it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 21, 2020, 03:06:33 PM
LESS THAN HAPPY would sum up my Knicks mood right now

Quickley was a guy I figured we could get.

OBI is very good - but a home run?  Who knows?

And then after that we haven't done all that much to turn the dial.

The big ADD right now is THIBS.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 21, 2020, 03:14:02 PM
NBA Radio guys also KILLING Hayward - insinuating Boston didnt miss him at all.

"5th scorer", shit like that.

Bad, badddd analysis

Weekend guys of course.  EJ and Termony, Isola and Theus and Scalabrine would never say similar.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 21, 2020, 03:19:04 PM
A real overpay for Haywire.
But he makes sense on CHA so they went for it.

I don't want the Knix to do something for the sake of making a splash.
But the endless revolving door and one year deals is getting old.
As you've noted we bring in guys who block the develop/minutes of our iffy yute.
That's why I'd be looking to move Julius within the next year and half.
ObiT can apprentice some, but soonish I'd liek to force feed him minutes.  This year or next.

A problem the Knix have is we just don't have an appealing roster, as we constantly tear down and shuffle players in and out.  And coaches and the front office.  Zero stability.  Minimal continuity.  Franc are longest tenured player. 

So as Facil says at this point we have to overpay to get a FA.  My thinking is we drafted Avdija and FA signed Wood, along with RJB and Mitch, our team would look interesting to a FA PG.
I would have started FVV around $25M or $26M (and flat of dropping).
____ - RJB - Advija - Wood/Randle - Mitch
Just looks more like a genuine team and with the extra money, maybe could have lured FVV.

As it is, I don't know what the plan is.
Or how/who we lure as a PG.

I don't know Quickley.  There were 4 or 5 other PG's to pick from.  Knix liked him.
I'm fine with the pick.  But late round PG's are often just backups at best.
We needed to tap a PG or shooter in the 20's and Quickley might be both.

Although short-term adding Quickenloans and subtracting Elf actually downgrades our PG slot and we still have a bit of a logjam, though I suspect Franc is really an SG (who can't, uh, shoot).  Wonder where Elf winds up.  He's a good backup PG who can spot start, preferably on a team of shooters.
Title: BoD
Post by: chipstern on November 21, 2020, 03:33:02 PM
Endless revolving door...

As oppossed to long term contracts to Eisley, Anderson, Weatherspoon, James...

Or reaches for the likes of Bagnani. 

Or trading away our entire roster for one supe.   

Given that was a long time ago, but I find the conservative approach refreshing. 

Also, the contention that now WE HAVE TO OVERPAY?

Overpay?

For who exactly? 

Everyone else is committing their money, and still some bodies left standing. 

When it all shakes out, where will the likes of Rondo and Teague be?

With this roster, frankly, I would be happy to overpay Rondo. 

And again, I am happy we are taking a cautious, conservative, wait and see aprroach for fucking once. 

Remmeber when we struck out on LeBron and Bosh?

What did we do.

MAX OUT AMARE. 

I loved Amare, but how much of him at his peak did we get for the money? 

Randle has a year to prove himself on some level, or align for a move. 

Otherwise, we are young and fluid and actually developing, or so it would seem. 

Let's compare notes on next Wednseday. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 21, 2020, 03:34:00 PM
Charlotte is spending $39mil per year on Gordo.  $30mil in salary to Haywire and $9mil in stretch to Batum.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 21, 2020, 03:34:47 PM
For these Knix, I'm all in favor of overpaying to get a guy we want.

Drop an extra $5M per over FVV's market value? 
That's merely one less Ed Davis on your bench. 

We need bona fide starters, before we start worrying about filling in the bench.  Hell, this year we have $9M in dead money from Noah and three guys we waived.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 21, 2020, 03:40:52 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 21, 2020, 03:34:00 PM
Charlotte is spending $39mil per year on Gordo.  $30mil in salary to Haywire and $9mil in stretch to Batum.

Looking at it that way, then Gordo only amounts to $12M this year, cause you gotta subtract the $27M CHA had committed to Batum.

CHA has so little committed for 2021-22 that Haywood and Batum for $39M will help get them towards the min salary floor.  They cna easily afford to eat the $9M for Batum each year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 21, 2020, 03:43:59 PM
Maybe we can overpay for THjr again.  (◔_◔)

Knicks have added 3 good three pt shooters this year and some of us aren't happy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 21, 2020, 03:49:44 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 21, 2020, 03:34:00 PM
Charlotte is spending $39mil per year on Gordo.  $30mil in salary to Haywire and $9mil in stretch to Batum.
GS is paying 66 mil for Oubre
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 21, 2020, 03:51:54 PM
Also from NBA Radio this day -

Lakers pasted for taking a malcontent like Montrezz instead of giving a similar deal to Rajon.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 21, 2020, 03:53:57 PM
You know....the more Knicks dilly dally around the more I get the idea they really like Randle.  They seemingly don't think they are far off in adding the draftees and a top coach to their 20 win team

Big splash?  Sure.  We'll take one if it comes
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 21, 2020, 04:03:07 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 21, 2020, 03:43:59 PM
Maybe we can overpay for THjr again.  (◔_◔)

Knicks have added 3 good three pt shooters this year and some of us aren't happy.

Thank you. 

To be a Knick fan is to suffer. 

And if you can't suffer, you can whip yourself. 

PS: Free Agency AIN'T Over. 

PPS: Somehow I see Teague or Rondo in Atlanta/Clippers.  Still, I would surely count us lucky to have Rondo to be an expensive mentor, associate Coach, in the extension of Thibs mode we are projecting for Taj. 
Title: Or there's no market for Randle - even with his friendly salary
Post by: Kam on November 21, 2020, 04:05:18 PM
Jonathan Macri
@JCMacriNBA

Someone’s gotta want him first.

(Dirty little secret: all the reasons NY fans have no interest in watching Randle pirouette his way to another $19 million next season? Opposing teams are allowed to watch Knicks games too)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 21, 2020, 04:06:29 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 21, 2020, 03:53:57 PM
You know....the more Knicks dilly dally around the more I get the idea they really like Randle.  They seemingly don't think they are far off in adding the draftees and a top coach to their 20 win team

Big splash?  Sure.  We'll take one if it comes

Now fancy THAT.

So much for the PREVAILING WISDOM. 

Guys who can get you 20/10/3 a night are in short supply.  I really like Randle, but then, I'm an idiot.  Guilty as charged.  But I think he made a positive impact on Thibs. 

And if we ARE going to trade him, and go all Sam Presti, might it be prudent to UP HIS FUCKING VALUE, let alone that of Kevin Knox or Dennis Smith or French Frank. 

At present, not much of a market, not much of a return.  We'd be harde pressed to get a #1 for Julius, and he can play, dudes. 

So for ONCE, not being bullied by the media or the fans, and taking the max our return rout, as oppossed to the OVERPAY FOR PUSSY ROUTE, we're holding a fire sale approach.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 21, 2020, 04:06:56 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 21, 2020, 03:43:59 PM
Knicks have added 3 good three pt shooters this year and some of us aren't happy.

Any of them gonna start?

We need quality starters ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 21, 2020, 04:14:02 PM
K Dunn 2-10 to Hawks
Title: Heh Or Meh
Post by: chipstern on November 21, 2020, 04:16:24 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 21, 2020, 04:06:56 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 21, 2020, 03:43:59 PM
Knicks have added 3 good three pt shooters this year and some of us aren't happy.

Any of them gonna start?

We need quality starters ...

CHRIST

We

NEED

Everything

We

ARE RETOOLING

The

PROCESS IS Fucking Slow

We

ARE

On

Our...WHAT?

10th FUCKING DoOver Or So In 25 years. 

Checketts...Ernie...Layden...Zeke...Donnie...Grunwald...Mills...Jackson....Mills...ROSE

And you're not happy with our team?

We NEED STARTERS?   

EXHALE MY BROTHER. 

After 20 Plus Years Of Precipitous DUMBASS And QUICK FIEXES And REALLY MOMETOUS MOVES, you are not happy.

Heh. 
Title: Re: Heh Or Meh
Post by: bodiddley on November 21, 2020, 04:46:35 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 21, 2020, 04:06:56 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 21, 2020, 03:43:59 PM
Knicks have added 3 good three pt shooters this year and some of us aren't happy.

Any of them gonna start?

We need quality starters ...

I was responding to Kam's assertion we should be happy with our minor tweaks.
To a team that indeed needs everything.

Hell, last year one could have said we added 3 good three point shooters (Ellington, Bullox, Portis).  Worked out great ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 21, 2020, 05:02:57 PM
So Knick fans are supposed to be happy that we didn't do anything dumb.
Real high bar to clear.

Maybe next year we can get with the times and just claim we won after every game.
Bribe the official scorer.  Or charge that he was unfair.  Or both just to be safe.  Claim the other teams free throws shouldn't count for some reason.  Put Rudy in charge, he's a New Yorker and a Winner!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 21, 2020, 05:07:26 PM
Harkless to Heat - 3.5 mil

Rondo 15 mil/2 to Hawks
Title: Facil
Post by: Kam on November 21, 2020, 05:20:45 PM
Shams Charania
@ShamsCharania

The Rockets have claimed former Knicks two-way forward Kenny Wooten off waivers, sources tell
Title: Fear not
Post by: Kam on November 21, 2020, 05:21:40 PM
Taj Gibson is still available.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 21, 2020, 05:52:11 PM
PAYTON BACK for 5 mil

No Carmelo.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 21, 2020, 06:03:20 PM
Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn

Elfrid Payton has agreed to one-year, $5M deal with Knicks, agents Aaron Mintz and Ty Sullivan of
@CAA_Basketball
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on November 21, 2020, 06:05:47 PM
Chip - I admire your optimism - I sincerely mean that....but I think it is legit. to be underwhelmed at this point without all the sturm und drang

oh, and I see we re/signed Elf -  is that logjam our savvy move, so hard to tell?  it's neither really, but it is underwhelming (there's that word again)...

CAA - of course...
Title: Get to the floor
Post by: Kam on November 21, 2020, 06:05:57 PM
Looks like our inroads in the league are mainly roads to the Jazz and CAA. 
I hope Leon has expansion plans for 2021.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 21, 2020, 06:06:55 PM
Seems like many Knicks fans wanted a big splash for the sake of the splash. 
Prudent transactions are boring.

But Prudent!
Title: Re: Get to the floor
Post by: Jack Straw on November 21, 2020, 06:10:13 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 21, 2020, 06:05:57 PM
Looks like our inroads in the league are mainly roads to the Jazz and CAA. 
I hope Leon has expansion plans for 2021.

and UK....
not a big splash, why is it always the extremes ...now something more interesting and proactive than Ed Davis and less that GH at 130 million - big grey area there to which Steady Eddy, Elf, and Burkes do not really belong....
I guess the big silver lining is they are all on one years... a low bar keeps us happy ....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 21, 2020, 06:14:38 PM
Who was in the grey area that would have moved the needle and not hampered future cap space and wanted to be here??
Title: Re: Fear not
Post by: facilitatorn on November 21, 2020, 06:20:23 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 21, 2020, 05:21:40 PM
Taj Gibson is still available.

I expect we get him back under similar circumstances to Payton

Mitch Taj Ed
Randle Obi Knox
Burks Bullock Iggy
RJ Quickley
Frank Payton DSJ

I still like Dedmon with this group.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on November 21, 2020, 06:23:55 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 21, 2020, 06:14:38 PM
Who was in the grey area that would have moved the needle and not hampered future cap space and wanted to be here??

Kam - it's pretty clear by now that no one "wants" to be here
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 21, 2020, 06:26:10 PM
Quote from: Jack Straw on November 21, 2020, 06:23:55 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 21, 2020, 06:14:38 PM
Who was in the grey area that would have moved the needle and not hampered future cap space and wanted to be here??

Kam - it's pretty clear by now that no one "wants" to be here

That's fine for another year.  COVID. No fans.  Short season.  Maybe more low ratings.   

On the bright side we are well-positioned with young players, a respected coach, and cap space for 2021 (not unlike the NETS under Atkinson)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 21, 2020, 06:27:02 PM
Still keeping an eye on Kenrich Williams.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 21, 2020, 06:31:41 PM
Seems like many Knicks fans wanted a big splash for the sake of the splash.


Yes.  Adding a Bogdonavic for instance is not a step toward winning
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 21, 2020, 06:31:48 PM
Quote from: Jack Straw on November 21, 2020, 06:23:55 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 21, 2020, 06:14:38 PM
Who was in the grey area that would have moved the needle and not hampered future cap space and wanted to be here??

Kam - it's pretty clear by now that no one "wants" to be here

That would SEEM to be the MESSAGE.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 21, 2020, 06:36:33 PM
By the way - re:  Bogdan and the 18 mil per -

seems Vlade had made overtures to Bog's people that this type deal, that amount of cabbage would be attainable

Then Divac got shitcanned and Bogdan immediately felt a need to get out of Sactown.  Seems now nobody wants to come close to that Divac-like pact.

Read - IF we offered 4-72 he might be ours.

But all teams have their valuation list.  And Knicks - being NEW management that has hired all these experts in the field to compile such list - surely dont wish to stray too far from it.

- Could also mean we had little shot at Hayward, since we may not have wished to pay what CHA eventually decided to.

Is Kupchak going against current NBA norms?  I would say YES.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 21, 2020, 06:58:19 PM
Nugs waived Torrey Craig. He’s an option to consider instead of Williams. Older and more physical.
Title: Compliant Chip [TO BE A KNICKS FAN IS TO SUFFER]
Post by: chipstern on November 21, 2020, 07:22:07 PM
Quote from: Jack Straw on November 21, 2020, 06:05:47 PM
Chip - I admire your optimism - I sincerely mean that....but I think it is legit. to be underwhelmed at this point without all the sturm und drang

oh, and I see we re/signed Elf -  is that logjam our savvy move, so hard to tell?  it's neither really, but it is underwhelming (there's that word again)...

CAA - of course...

Dear PRUDENCET

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-8cUSbmuzgQA/VfcWrtRALrI/AAAAAAAABJM/xYfQz_5aBQg/s1600/Statue-of-Liberty-crying-628x356.jpg)

Thank you for the kind thoughts, Brother Straw. 

I'm not sure if I am innately delusional, easy to pimp or simply innured to PAIN. 

Probably equal parts all of the above. 

Bo D is an old brother of mine in pain, and jazz and movies.  He once very kindly sent me a box of vintage movie DVDs from his outpost in China. 

So I FEEL HIS PAIN. 

I do not SHARE it, but I FEEL IT. 

And it's not as if I didn't swallow hard when I saw all of those sugar plums which dropped to us at #8.  As we say in Yiddish, it was a mitzvah. 

And I am on the record where MY FIRST CHOICE was Haliburton, then Vassell. 

I NEVER EXPECTED IN MY WILDEST  DREAMS THAT BOTH Devi and Obi would be sitting there at #8. 

Why am I so compliant?

Good question, Straw Man. 

I've been conscious of the Knicks since the early 60s.  I was at the Old Garden for a game while in the Cub Scouts where the Knicks jumped all over the Cinncinnatti Roylas in the first quarter...in fact, it was Brother BoD himself who sent me a BOX SCORE from that game.  I forget, but I think the Knicks, with such bad asses as Richie Guerin, Jumpin Johnny Green and Willie Naulls all had 20+plus, and jumped to a 43-21 first quarter lead. 

However, the Royals had this OSCAR ROBERTSON fellow, who as I recall finished with 34, and lead the Royals to a 104-103 win.  YOU DIG?

The Knicks have come tantalizingly close a couple of times....the Hubie Brown BERNARD-MISTER BILL KNICKS, the Pat Riley EWING-OAK-STARKS-HARPER KNICKS, the JVG LJ-CAMBY-SPREE-HOUSTON KNICKS, the last gush of hope being 20 years ago. 

God bless RED HOLZMAN Willis and Clyde and Barnett and Dollar Bill and The Pearl and Jerry Lucas...but the Knicks NEVER WON before DAVE DEBUSSHERE and NEVER WON AFTER. 

Okay, so, THE PRESENT. 

And being UNDERWHELEMED? 

The message I get from the return of Elfrid on a one year deal, is that the Knicks are giving Dennis and Frank every opportunity to conclusively make a case for themselves.  Can they rudder the ship, or least ways, build up their value as assets going forward?  Signing Coach Johnnie Bryant is certainly a message that the Knicks are trying, OH BUT THEY ARE TRYING, to redeem the #9 and #8 draft picks, Dennis and Frank, vis a vis the legacy of the dear fucking price we paid in the Porzingis trade, and the legacy of Phil picking Frank on the way out the door, even as he blew off one Donovan Mitchell (selected and nurtured by former Jazzers now KNICKS, Walt Perrin and Johnnie Bryant, and now bellyingup to the bar for a MAX EXTENSION). 

We know that Payton can board and distribute and defend.  Can he, like Dennis and Frank, be more effective with Toppin and Quickley, Bullock and Burks, Bradeikis and Knox hitting, PRESUMABLY HITTING, threes. 

Well, we are going to fuckikng find out. 

Clearly, while we have all been sold on the THIBS WANTS TO WIN RIGHT FUCKING NOW NARRATIVE, just as clearly, this coming season is about RECASTING OUR TEAM CULTURE and player development.

Been there. 

Done that. 

BORING. 

But maybe necessary.  And possibly even PRUDENT.

Find out who is chicken salad and who is chicken shit. 

Obi, RJ, Mitchell and Immanuel would appear to be building blocks moving forward. 

Julius, Dennis, Frank, Kevin, Ignatz are on the clock. 

Reggie and Elfrid, Davis and Burks are placeholders. 

And prepping for a far sexier 2021 free agent class, when more marquee players beckon who probably don't want to be Knicks, either. 

Exciting? 

I'll settle for sticking to a plan for more than one season, actual player development, recasting the Knicks kulture, and defense, Defense, DEFENSE. 

Gee, Chip, you're a dipshit...well, let's be charitable and say...I'm a Knicks fan, and have been saying Wait Till Next Year FOR SIXTY FUCKING YEARS. 

To Be A Knicks Fan Is To Suffer

Suck it up NY. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 21, 2020, 07:22:30 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 21, 2020, 06:31:48 PM
Quote from: Jack Straw on November 21, 2020, 06:23:55 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 21, 2020, 06:14:38 PM
Who was in the grey area that would have moved the needle and not hampered future cap space and wanted to be here??

Kam - it's pretty clear by now that no one "wants" to be here

That would SEEM to be the MESSAGE.

So i'll rephrase ...

Who was in the grey area that would have moved the needle and not hampered future cap space and we did not get?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on November 21, 2020, 07:59:29 PM
Look Kam, you are not wrong, but you are not nec. right either...  like all sports arguments, esp. those based on preseason musings, there's no right or wrong, it's all just chin music until the results are in...

I could say Teague - but yeah - in terms of moving the needle,  he alone does nothing, I could say, Rose could have been more creative in some way for Montrellz, or overpay for Bertans (not our money, cap space will still be in good shape)...but no single FA will move the needle - I get that....and 2021 is all about cap space - I get that too...

but if no decent FA wants to sign with the Knicks in '20, and this season  shapes up to be another dopey, 2 steps back season - or even a 1/2 step forward season, why would  any decent FA  rush to sign with the Knicks - nothing  has  changed (certainly not the owner).

Maybe there are already winks and nods among the CAA mafia that some CAA repped FA will take New York money - maybe, who knows?

so many ifs, so much waiting, such a low bar, what happened to baby steps - unless you consider NOT doing any harm as a baby step,  like I said such a low fucking bar...

maybe this all goes away tomorrow when the knicks unveil Russbrook?  maybe I'ld be more forgiving if they drafted Halliburton and not Obi...
maybe Quickley will live up to  Calipari's glowing recommendation (recycled from his same glowing recommendation of Knox)...
maybe Thibs will do a reclamation job with DSJ & Frank the likes of which has never been seen...

right now, the Knicks remain no part of nuthin', just  like they have been for the better part of the last 20 years,  I remain underwhelmed and welcome the opportunity to be genuinely surprised this season, as well with the next  FA signing-fest
Title: Stop Making Sense
Post by: chipstern on November 21, 2020, 08:04:26 PM
Maybe there are already winks and nods among the CAA mafia that some CAA repped FA will take New York money - maybe, who knows?

so many ifs, so much waiting, such a low bar, what happened to baby steps - unless you consider NOT doing any harm as a baby step,  like I said such a low fucking bar...

maybe this all goes away tomorrow when the knicks unveil Russbrook? 

maybe I'ld be more forgiving if they drafted Halliburton and not Obi...

maybe Quickley will live up to  Calipari's glowing recommendation (recycled from his same glowing recommendation of Knox)...

maybe Thibs will do a reclamation job with DSJ & Frank the likes of which has never been seen...

right now, the Knicks remain no part of nuthin', just  like they have been for the better part of the last 20 years, 
I remain underwhelmed and welcome the opportunity to be genuinely surprised this season, as well with the next  FA signing-fest
Title: Ladies & Gentlemen, You're Underwhelming NY Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 21, 2020, 08:14:52 PM
Let's Unwrap This Thing. 

We wanted a playstation, and got new socks. 

C: Robinson

C-PF: Randle, Davis, Gibson

PF-SF: Toppin, Knox, Bradeikis

SF-SG: Barrett, Bullock

SG-PG: Ntilinka, Burks, Quickley

PG: Smith, Payton, Harper

And that makes 15. 

Ho Ho Ho, Knicks Fans. 

Title: Postscript
Post by: chipstern on November 21, 2020, 08:17:05 PM
G League Hope Kenny Wooten?

Picked up off of waivers by the Houston Rockets, where in the post-D'Antoni Epoch, apparently size DOES MATTER, once again. 
Title: But you NEED socks
Post by: Kam on November 21, 2020, 08:17:46 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 21, 2020, 08:14:52 PM

We wanted a playstation, and got new socks. 


Last free-agency the Knicks quickly spent their money and brought in 7 new faces (Randle, Morris, Gibson, Portis, Payton, Ellington, Bullock)

This year there's one new free agent (Burks) and another traded player (Davis). 

We retained Randle, Payton, Bullock and maybe Gibson so there's some continuity with the players. 

It's not a whole new team that needs to gel, which would be hard to do in a month.

Asset-wise we remain poised to strike.  We retain maximum flexibility.  We are developing young players.

We have wanted the Knicks to behave this way for decades.  They're finally doing it.  This is what rebuilding with young players looks like.


Title: Prudence Is Indeed Boring...But It Is PRUDENT
Post by: chipstern on November 21, 2020, 09:13:06 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 21, 2020, 08:17:46 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 21, 2020, 08:14:52 PM

We wanted a playstation, and got new socks. 


Last free-agency the Knicks quickly spent their money and brought in 7 new faces (Randle, Morris, Gibson, Portis, Payton, Ellington, Bullock)

This year there's one new free agent (Burks) and another traded player (Davis). 

We retained Randle, Payton, Bullock and maybe Gibson so there's some continuity with the players. 

It's not a whole new team that needs to gel, which would be hard to do in a month.

Asset-wise we remain poised to strike.  We retain maximum flexibility.  We are developing young players.

We have wanted the Knicks to behave this way for decades.  They're finally doing it.  This is what rebuilding with young players looks like.

Two Years Ago We Went Into The Tank With Fizdale In Pursuit Of The ArchAngel Zion, In The Name Of YOUTH & PLAYER DEVELOPMENT. 

ReBoot 

Last Season We Got Farted On By Durant & Irving, On Then Reversed Course, Where We Weren't Trying To Tank, And Kicked Our Youth And Player Development To The Curb In The Name Of Veteran Placeholders With Mike Miller. 

ReBoot

This Season We Completely ReTooled Our Front Office, Retained Cap Space And Flexibility, Hired An ACTUAL COACH With A Proven Defensive System, Top Tier Player Development Assistants, And Were Prudent & Proactive In Our Deployment Of Our Draft Assets, Aided & Abetted By The Holy Spirit, WHO GIFTED US A BUFFET TABLE OF TOP TIER CHOICES AT #8 In The Person Of...Toppin, Avdija, Haliburton, Vassell, Lewis. 

And NOW?

We didn't throw $20-30 Million a Year at any free agents or trade for brand new used shiny objects such as Hayward and Westbrook. 

I completely understand why BoD is upset with the Knicks for not taking Haliburton or Avdija and signing Wood and ___________. 

Let's see, as we have been down this ReTool Road Before, and I can distinctly recall the words THIS IS WHAT A REBUILD LOOKS LIKE passing through my lips. 

(https://i.pinimg.com/600x315/df/0a/b9/df0ab969813f6d44e5c814ea40c93109.jpg)

Or as Bullwinkle said to Rocky, "Watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat."

And as Rocky responded: "Again?"

To which Bullwinkle allows: "Hmmm, I've got to get a new hat."

And THAT would be prudent. 

Have we actually committed to BLOWING UP THE BULLSHIT OF THE PAST TWENTY YEARS?  After being fooled again and again and again...

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/cb/6b/7f/cb6b7f7ec41180a17e0e0d890e8ded55.gif)

Is there actually a prudent plan that the Knicks are actually disciplined enough to STICK TO? , that we might utter the words THIS IS WHAT A REBUILD LOOKS LIKE, without feeling like a schmuck.


Title: WOW...This Will Have To Pass For Excitement, But Interesting
Post by: chipstern on November 21, 2020, 09:17:18 PM
You'll forgive me if I utter a muted WOW.

Who amongst us saw THIS coming? 

Nerlens Noel to New York

Adrian Wojnarowski: Free agent C Nerlens Noel has agreed to a one-year deal with the New York Knicks, sources tell ESPN. – via Twitter wojespn

Now THIS Is An Interesting Move. 

$5,000,000 For One Year.  A DEFENSIVE Signing.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/noelne01.html (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/noelne01.html)

Just turned 26. 

And where did Jeff Teague end up?

Why, logically enough, with A CONTENDER. 

BOSTON.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 21, 2020, 09:22:04 PM
We just added Noel. About the same deal as everyone else.

Mitch Noel Davis
Randle Toppin Knox
Burks Bullock Iggy
RJ Quickley
Frank Payton DSJ

No Dedmon necessary this year. I’d still think about Torrey Craig.
Title: My Old Kentucky Home
Post by: chipstern on November 21, 2020, 10:47:21 PM
Kenny Payne is on the clock and being tasked with significant responsibilities. 

Player Development?

We Shall See

We Now Have A Quartet Of Kentucky Alummni:

C-PF: Nerlens Noel, 26 [2013, #6 Pick]

PF-C: Julius Randle, 26 [2014, #7 Pick]

SF-PF: Kevin Knox, 21 [2018, #8 Pick]

SG-PG: Immanuel Quickley, 21 [2020, #25 Pick]

[Cough]

A pattern seems to be emerging:

Ed Davis, 31

Reggie Bullock, 29

Alec Burks, 29

Elfrid Payton, 26

Dennis Smith, 23

Jared Harper, 23

Frank Ntiliknia, 22

Mitchell Robinson, 22

Obi Toppin, 22

Ignas Brazdeikis, 21

RJ Barrett, 20

That Entire THIBS Wants To Win NOW Narrative Is A Crock...

Everything the Knicks did in the draft and in free agency, and in hiring Head Coach Tom Thibodeau and bringing on board Associate Head Coach Johnnie Bryant and Assistant Coach Kenny Payne, is about transforming the culture and player development. 

BoD said, "We need starters." 

Guess WHAT?

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/de/c8/58/dec8580830cfccd474bece8714e11689.gif)

"From the little acorn did the mighty oak tree grow." 

Then again....

(https://i.imgur.com/xevNO8W.gif?noredirect)

In any event, seeing as how NO FREE AGENTS WANT TO PLAY FOR THE KNICKS, well....there is an alternative...

Grow

Your

OWN

(https://i.pinimg.com/474x/cd/6c/f4/cd6cf4d77d84b739e266ad6c45ed613d.jpg)




Title: Exhibit A
Post by: chipstern on November 21, 2020, 11:28:30 PM
NBA free agency: Kentavious Caldwell-Pope re-signing with Lakers on three-year, $40 million deal

And Serge Ibaka with the Clippers, two years for $19 million.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 22, 2020, 12:53:54 AM
Clips did well on that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 22, 2020, 02:55:54 AM
Nawlins Noel had a solid season.
He's a limited minutes guy (12-20 mpg) who gives you energy.
Good rim protector and insurance for those nights where Mitch bites on every fake and has to sit down.
Noel basically pretty similar to Mitch in game and length.

Better than bringing back Taj who is undersized and getting creaky and deserves to be on a playoff team
who can slot him in now and then.
I like the Noel pickup for a season starting at Xmas.
_______________________________________________________________________

Another lost season on tap.

I said Wanamaker would be a nice fit in GSW.
And at $2M a bargain backup.
______________________________________________________________________

ATL added both Rondo and Dunn.  To compensate for Trae's shortcomings.
I like Dunn better than Jr. Smith ... but who really knows what we have in Dennis Smith Jr.
Is he an NBA player?  Is his head on straight? (I mean this sincerely, life can intrude on your job
and especially if my work contract was guaranteed, I'd prioritize my life over my career).

I just have no idea what his standing is.
DS Jr. could be our opening day starting PG or be waived before the season starts, and I wouldn't blink either way.
Could we start him and see how it goes?  Start Smith Jr and let Elf finish if necessary.

Speaking of, some doubted players would accept such a thing when I said waive Taj and re-sign him cheaper.
Well, Knix just knocked $3M off of Elf with the same maneuver (or did Elf pocket $1M for being waived?  If so, then $2M)
Elf and Nawlisn come in at $10M or just $1M above Taj's option, $2M above Elf's option, and $5 below Portis'.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 22, 2020, 03:22:57 AM
Randle, Toppings & Elf are all represented by CAA.
Anybody else?

Randle, Knox, Quickley, Nerlens all Kentucky players.
Calipari in tight with CAA, his assistant Payne on our staff, etc.

We could still add MKG or unearth Josh Harrelson?
I know we have 15, but Harper and Iggy could be two-way players or just waived.
A few folks here have been seeing Iggy and Wooten through rose-colored contacts.

Theo Pinson is a CAA client.
Not sure if we helped him get any extra money or not, but picking him up off waivers at least got his name in the NBA mix for a bit.

Similarly, MKG is very tight with Worldwide Wes, and even if we don't sign him, NYK showing some interest and getting MKG's name in NY papers has to help his value some.

Wake me when the CAA mafia nets us Booker or AD .. or both!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 22, 2020, 03:27:18 AM
Taj is still possibly an end move, but far less likely now we have ED, Noel (Kentucky kid same age as Randle), Randle, and the new kid, ObTop. I like Mitch at 28 mins Nerins at 20 and Ed in case of emergency guarding the paint. Randle has sole and complete wide-body bruiser duty, as his penance for past and future spins into help unless we see an even larger human to add to the mix.

Tomić a possibility for one.

I watched some Obi film and one thing that differentiates him from our past and returning bigs is that if he sees bodies in the lane or a play off of movement or penetration developing toward the lane, he spaces and is a real threat in space so helps his team’s offense in two ways.

Alec Burks is a very solid two way wing in his prime, Bullock is a solid one who was just getting healthy when we stopped playing. RJ, Knox, and Iggy would do well to absorb what they can from those two. We might see pairings of RJ & Burks and Bullock and Knox.

Quickley will make his money as a high energy floor spacer and a disciplined severe pest on the other end.

If the layoff plus our new and improved player development plus better design and preparation yielding better shots conspire to help Payton can 3’s and other jumpers at a league average or better rate so teams have to come guard him at and past the line, he’ll be one of the best value contracts in the league. If not, we’ll be in the good hands of le Fresh Frank of New York.

It also appears Myles Powell could easily replace DSJ on the roster skill and weakness-wise. He apparently grew up with Toppin and the two are excellent friends.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 22, 2020, 03:28:41 AM
Chip, I love that GIF of Kieth stomping his way through his kit.
Title: Looking for silver linings
Post by: Kam on November 22, 2020, 04:13:14 AM
Last year we struck out on the Big Name FAs and panicked. We gave Bobby Portis 15mil!  He just signed for 4mil.  Teams Players and Agents knew they had the Knicks (Mills/Perry) over a barrel having traded KP for Cap Space.  They knew that space had to be used.

This year the new FO did not make any panic moves or trade for a fading star.  That may not produce much excitement but what it does signal to the rest of the league is that these aren't the same ol' knicks where bad contracts go to die.  That can only serve Rose well in future negotiations with player agents and with other general managers.

That's not sexy.  But it can pay a dividend if the Knicks stance remains patient.  Stocking up on 2023 picks is another display to the league that the Knicks are playing the patient game and won't be goaded into a win-now mindset that is ultimately self-defeating.

That's all I got to say about that.  But on the other hand, I wasn't even thinking about this free agent period.  I really had no notion we were going to get someone and just want to see the team on the court.  Let's see the coach earn his money and contend for a playoff spot.  That's what I want to see.  That's the only way the Knicks will be noticed by the 2021 free agent class and beyond.  Just win baby.
Title: Rose got Thibs some guys who can defend
Post by: Kam on November 22, 2020, 04:23:47 AM
Final possession, Knicks up 1, the other team comes out of a time-out to inbound the ball at half court, under 15 seconds to go.

Thibs can roll out this defensive unit

Mitch
Noel
Frank
Burks
Payton
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 22, 2020, 05:21:45 AM
So what you're saying is we have no F defenders ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 22, 2020, 09:00:47 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 22, 2020, 03:28:41 AM
Chip, I love that GIF of Kieth stomping his way through his kit.

I believe that GIF was sourced from a SMOTHERS BROTHERS broadcast, where at the conclusion of the Who's performance, explosives were triggered and Keith's kit detonated. 
Title: Celtics & Nets
Post by: chipstern on November 22, 2020, 09:22:26 AM
Our Eastern Conference adversaries moving forward.

Signed Cavs Tristan Thompson for the full MCE, 2 X $19 Million. 

Nice pickup.  With Theis & Williams, give the Celtics a nice defensive presence at the 4 & 5. 

Adding Jeff Teague and their two draft picks, Nesmith and Pritchard, gives them nice depth at SF and PG. 

I read reports of a S&T being in flux between Celtics and Hornets, which confused me. 

I was under the impression Hayward was an unrestricted FA and that they had signed him free and clear. 

Meanwhile, no sign that the Nyets are rushing to gut their roster for James Harden.  Houston wants a lot, as well they should.

But LaVert is a stud offensive wing, and they just copped Landry Shamet and reupped Joe Harris.  Some serious outside shooting. 

Jarett Allen and DeAndre Jordan is one hell of a nice platoon at the five spot, and Dimwiddie gives them coverage at the point and the 2 spot. 

LaVert, Allen, Dimiwiddie and draft picks for Harden seems dicey to me, but hey, what do I know. 

Yup, Harden is a Hall Of Famer, but his game is way too much like Kyrie's, and losing the chemistry of the past three years in exchange for another ball dominant wing?  The shiniest of shiny objects. Could be a Hershel Walker trade for Sean Marks. 

Houston should trade Harden or Westbrook straight up for John Wall and call it a day. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 22, 2020, 09:39:34 AM
Aforementioned Myles Powell

https://shupirates.com/sports/mens-basketball/roster/myles-powell/2834

What a list of awards!


2020 NCAA CONSENSUS ALL-AMERICA FIRST TEAM**

**2020 JERRY WEST NATIONAL SHOOTING GUARD OF THE YEAR AWARD**
**2020 ASSOCIATED PRESS ALL-AMERICA FIRST TEAM**
**2020 SPORTING NEWS ALL-AMERICA FIRST TEAM**
**2020 USBWA ALL-AMERICA FIRST TEAM**
**2020 NABC ALL-AMERICA SECOND TEAM**
**2020 WOODEN AWARD ALL-AMERICA**
**2020 HAGGERTY AWARD METROPOLITAN PLAYER OF THE YEAR**
**2020 BIG EAST PLAYER OF THE YEAR**
**2020 USBWA DISTRICT II PLAYER OF THE YEAR**
**2020 USBWA ALL-DISTRICT II**
**2020 NABC ALL-DISTRICT 5 FIRST TEAM**
**2020 ALL-BIG EAST FIRST TEAM**
**2020 BIG EAST ALL-ACADEMIC TEAM**
**2020 JERRY WEST SHOOTING GUARD OF THE YEAR AWARD TOP 5 FINALIST**
**2020 JOHN R. WOODEN AWARD TOP 5 FINALIST**
**2020 NAISMITH TROPHY TOP 5 FINALIST**
**2020 OSCAR ROBERTSON TROPHY MIDESEASON WATCH LIST**
**2020 SENIOR CLASS AWARD TOP 10 FINALIST**
**2019-20 ASSOCIATED PRESS PRESEASON ALL-AMERICA**
**2019-20 BIG EAST PRESEASON PLAYER OF THE YEAR**
---
**2019 BIG EAST ALL-ACADEMIC TEAM**
**2019 NABC HONORS COURT**
**2019 ASSOCIATED PRESS ALL-AMERICA HONORABLE MENTION**
**2019 HAGGERTY AWARD METROPOLITAN PLAYER OF THE YEAR**
**2019 ALL-MET FIRST TEAM**
**2019 UNANIMOUS ALL-BIG EAST FIRST TEAM**
**2019 USBWA ALL-DISTRICT**
**2019 NABC ALL-DISTRICT**
**2019 BIG EAST CHAMPIONSHIP ALL-TOURNAMENT TEAM**
**2018 JOE CALABRESE MOST VALUABLE PLAYER**
**2018 WOODEN LEGACY MOST OUTSTANDING PLAYER**
**2019 WOODEN LEGACY ALL-TOURNAMENT FIRST TEAM**
**2018 BIG EAST MOST IMPROVED PLAYER OF THE YEAR**
**2018 ALL-MET SECOND TEAM**
**2018 BIG EAST ALL-ACADEMIC TEAM
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 22, 2020, 09:42:05 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 22, 2020, 09:39:34 AM
Aforementioned Myles Powell

https://shupirates.com/sports/mens-basketball/roster/myles-powell/2834

What a list of awards!

Close friend coming of age of Toppin. 

Powell and Jared Harper would appear to be our main G League 2-Way Contract projects.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 22, 2020, 09:44:31 AM
Signed Cavs Tristan Thompson for the full MCE, 2 X $19 Million.

Nice pickup.  With Theis & Williams, give the Celtics a nice defensive presence at the 4 & 5

To what I was saying the last 2 days re the "pass" on the Hayward deal...

Celts get Thompson much cheaper than Myles Turner - for a shorter stint - and will use the extra cash wisely.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 22, 2020, 09:56:55 AM
As the roster gets deeper a guy like Ntlikina becomes more valuable in spot situations.  He is actually LESS a guy I wish to deal now.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 22, 2020, 09:59:36 AM
Have the Celts gotten better?

Depends.

Who plays the Hayward minutes (33.5 per game)?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 22, 2020, 10:19:35 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 22, 2020, 09:56:55 AM
As the roster gets deeper a guy like Ntlikina becomes more valuable in spot situations.  He is actually LESS a guy I wish to deal now.

Bruce Bowen 3.2, if we are lucky.

Thibs was described as having a crush on Okoro.  I believe that is how he would like to see Frank evolve, as someone he could sic on opposing wings, 1-2-3.   

A LOT of competition for minutes at the 1,2,3. 

GOOD. 

I know this sounds odd, but I am really rooting for Dennis Smith. 

Last year was such a disaster, Coach Miller had zero confidence in or committment to him, and between family loss and injuries and no consistent minutes or lineups to get productive minutes, and the absence of consistent three point shooters to benefit from his drives and kicks, well...couldn't get much lower. 

Coach Payne has apparently been working with the bigs, Randle and Knox in particular.

While Coach Bryant has been tasked with the likes of RJ and Smith. 

MSG has been showing Knicks games from the past two years, and Smith's last season was so dreary, it's easy to forget how well he was playing for us when he first came over in the Spring of 2019.  Or some of the steps forward Frank made in his last few games.  Much more purposeful and agressive, getting to the rack, drawing and converting free throws, cutting down on the pain inducing telegraphed passes.  Apparently Ntilikina has muscled up consdierably since March.

Health, good coaching, consistent minutes, complementary pieces on the floor with him. 

Some time back I was reading how Coach Thibodeau apparently was a long time fan of his game. 

Dennis' job to lose.  We shall see. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on November 22, 2020, 10:39:03 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 22, 2020, 09:59:36 AM
Have the Celts gotten better?

Depends.

Who plays the Hayward minutes (33.5 per game)?

Posted yesterday elsewhere shortly after Gordo news broke

Quote from: bankshot1, post: 4175185, member: 9
Exactly. Gordo was more promise than delivery for the past 3 years. The cap stuff is what it is, I posted in the other thread this opens PT for development to get young guys (Romeo, TL, GW, Nesmith) game ready for the post-season. We are reliant on Kemba being healthy. But this is not a disaster.
.

I think TT and Teague are good depth adds, but the young guys named above have to step up and take more responsibility. Grant Williams is a "Smart" type player, if he can improve his offense he will see a lot more minutes. Langford was hurt for most of last year so he's still mostly a rookie, Nesmith is the guy they need off the bench to bang 3s.

I think the real risk is at PG and managing Kemba's time and knees. The Teague pick-up was big,   

I think they will be a tough out in a any 7-game series
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 22, 2020, 10:49:27 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on November 22, 2020, 10:39:03 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 22, 2020, 09:59:36 AM
Have the Celts gotten better?

Depends.

Who plays the Hayward minutes (33.5 per game)?

Posted yesterday elsewhere shortly after Gordo news broke

Quote from: bankshot1, post: 4175185, member: 9
Exactly. Gordo was more promise than delivery for the past 3 years. The cap stuff is what it is, I posted in the other thread this opens PT for development to get young guys (Romeo, TL, GW, Nesmith) game ready for the post-season. We are reliant on Kemba being healthy. But this is not a disaster.
.

I think TT and Teague are good depth adds, but the young guys named above have to step up and take more responsibility. Grant Williams is a "Smart" type player, if he can improve his offense he will see a lot more minutes. Langford was hurt for most of last year so he's still mostly a rookie, Nesmith is the guy they need off the bench to bang 3s.

I think the real risk is at PG and managing Kemba's time and knees. The Teague pick-up was big,   

I think they will be a tough out in a any 7-game series

Hayward seems to me addition by subtraction. 

Tatum needn't play PF, although he can in small ball land. 

With Tatum and Brown at the 3 & 2, and Smart rotating in as a small ball wing or an off guard or a point, Celtics have TT and Williams to do the heavy lifting at the 4, and additional wing/point options in Teague, Nesmith and Pritchard.  Having Smart, Teague AND Pritchard means Kemba doesn't have to exceed 25-30. 

I always thought Hayward was oddly redundant.  Better fit in Charlotte is he can remain ambulatory. 

I was NOT sanquine about the Knicks overpaying for him, sugar plums, Antonio McDyess and Jonathan Bender dancing in my head. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 22, 2020, 11:03:51 AM
AINGE isnt happy with his current roster, trust

Still looking for a move.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on November 22, 2020, 11:18:53 AM
Quote from: chipstern on November 22, 2020, 10:49:27 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on November 22, 2020, 10:39:03 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 22, 2020, 09:59:36 AM
Have the Celts gotten better?

Depends.

Who plays the Hayward minutes (33.5 per game)?

Posted yesterday elsewhere shortly after Gordo news broke

Quote from: bankshot1, post: 4175185, member: 9
Exactly. Gordo was more promise than delivery for the past 3 years. The cap stuff is what it is, I posted in the other thread this opens PT for development to get young guys (Romeo, TL, GW, Nesmith) game ready for the post-season. We are reliant on Kemba being healthy. But this is not a disaster.
.

I think TT and Teague are good depth adds, but the young guys named above have to step up and take more responsibility. Grant Williams is a "Smart" type player, if he can improve his offense he will see a lot more minutes. Langford was hurt for most of last year so he's still mostly a rookie, Nesmith is the guy they need off the bench to bang 3s.

I think the real risk is at PG and managing Kemba's time and knees. The Teague pick-up was big,   

I think they will be a tough out in a any 7-game series

Hayward seems to me addition by subtraction. 

Tatum needn't play PF, although he can in small ball land. 

With Tatum and Brown at the 3 & 2, and Smart rotating in as a small ball wing or an off guard or a point, Celtics have TT and Williams to do the heavy lifting at the 4, and additional wing/point options in Teague, Nesmith and Pritchard.  Having Smart, Teague AND Pritchard means Kemba doesn't have to exceed 25-30. 

I always thought Hayward was oddly redundant.  Better fit in Charlotte is he can remain ambulatory. 

I was NOT sanquine about the Knicks overpaying for him, sugar plums, Antonio McDyess and Jonathan Bender dancing in my head.

at $30MM a year he was more than redundant.

when GH signed he was going to be the stud wing, but as Jason and Jaylen emerged, as you note, Gordo became redundant. And the Js were better and had far higher ceilings.

His role changed and that may have become an ego issue.

But when Gordo was healthy, which unfortunately was almost never, he was pretty good, and a court savvy professional who usually made the right pass etc.

I wondered if he could become the next "6th man", and it turned out he couldn't.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 22, 2020, 11:40:28 AM
Celts had Wanamaker play much of his minutes

Maybe it is true that Tatum now plays exclusively the 3 - and Celts BIGS then become the focus of effectiveness/ineffectiveness

But with Wanamaker now gone, just filling in with young guys may be dangerous

Another move for a wing could be coming (Celts were in on Crowder and others), as Langford continues to heal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on November 22, 2020, 01:03:29 PM
Wanamaker did a pretty decent job but Teague is an upgrade at PG back-up.

Celts played small a lot last year, so with GH and Kemba both missing some time, Smart, Theis, Wanamaker all picked up more minutes.

I may be looking at this through emarald glasses, but Celts are a pretty young team with good depth

Tatum-Brown-Smart is pretty solid young core to work off of.

Kemba isn't young and his knees are older-thats the risk

Theis is another smart tough, tenacious under-rated player. I just wish he was 2-3 inches taller.

IMO giving PT to Langford, Grant Williams TimeLord-he's still a high upside project, and Nesmith the 3pt savant from Vandy isn't that risky.

IMO2 the regular season is the time to see what you migth have in the post-season. 

As for another wing, maybe, I still hear a S&T with the Hornets may happen and that could lead to something

NBA' FA rules and accounting for it is mind-numbing.
Title: Hawks
Post by: chipstern on November 22, 2020, 02:02:22 PM
Okongwu

Rondo

Gallinari

Have tendered an offer sheet to Bogdan Bogdanovic.  Kings have 48 hours to match. 

Capela
[Okongwu]
Collins
[Gallinari]
Hunter
Reddish
Huerta
[Bogdonavitch]
[Rondo]
Young

Looks like a playoff team. 
Title: Curious Rumor
Post by: chipstern on November 22, 2020, 04:44:58 PM
Marc Stein: The Knicks have emerged as a potential trade partner for the Lakers in a JaVale McGee deal, league sources say, as LA explores its various options. If talks progress, New York would surely require at least one additional asset from the Lakers to take McGee into salary-cap space. – via Twitter TheSteinLine

The Lakers are puportedly trying to open up cap space in order to add Marc Gasol to their roster. 

Be interesting to see if the Knicks could exact a meaningful finders fee for bringing a McGee deal to fruition. 

C: Robinson

C-PF: Randle, Davis, Noels

PF-SF: Toppin, Knox, Bradeikis

SF-SG: Barrett, Bullock

SG-PG: Ntilinka, Burks, Quickley

PG: Smith, Payton, Harper

Hmmm...

Unless Harper and Theo Pinson [our 2-Way Contracts] as well as Myles Powell are all slated to Westchster, or another one or two of our present roster are on the way out of town, or McGee would simply be dropped (and why, he is a legit defensive option), not sure this rumor is tenable. 

Subtract Harper and we have 14 roster spots filled. 

Would suggest that Davis and Brazdeikis could be the street clothes 14 & 15 players. 

Hey, what do I know. 

Leon Rose is inscrutable.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 22, 2020, 05:02:06 PM
If we get assets to add McGee, that would be amazing. That would be some serious rim protecting front line.

Get it done, Leon.
Title: Facil-I-Tee
Post by: chipstern on November 22, 2020, 05:17:56 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 22, 2020, 05:02:06 PM
If we get assets to add McGee, that would be amazing. That would be some serious rim protecting front line.

Get it done, Leon.

Was just thinking of you. 

Found a funny lead to a DEADSPIN blog post online. 

The Knicks Baffle Fans By Continuing To Make Moves That Actually Make Sense

Gist of piece was that after a quarter century of pushing all of their chips to the middle of the table, and getting left holding the bag, the Knicks are finally proceeding in a....dare one say...PRUDENT MANNER. 

To characterize it as TANKING, as Marc Berman so flippantly opined, is, well, Tom Thibodeau ain't who you hire to oversee a tank.  Both of our draft picks are experienced collegians older than a number of players already on the roster. 

By the way, McGee is 32, Davis 31, and they would be the elder statesmen on these Knicks, assuming we kept EITHER or BOTH expiring contracts. 

Stop making sense Leon, yo Mama's calling. 

Oh, that was LEROY....my bad. 
Title: PS: Thank You Lord
Post by: chipstern on November 22, 2020, 05:46:29 PM
Praise GOD, we did not schedule a Carmelo Anthony Farewell Tour. 

With the likes of Toppin and Knox and Brazdeikis vying for minutes, I mean, what the fuck was this reunion supposed to signify?

Melo had a great season in Portland, accepting his role, and fitting in on a contending team, subsuming his fucking ego for the greater good.  I was happy for him.

Bon voyage.  And Happy trails. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 22, 2020, 05:59:57 PM
Re:  McGee - well, yeah, you'd have to think we really didnt have another C on the roster

Davis at 6-9 118 is a bit of a mirage - and Randle only cameos.

If not Javale, could be someone else coming in.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 22, 2020, 06:06:22 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 22, 2020, 05:59:57 PM
Re:  McGee - well, yeah, you'd have to think we really didnt have another C on the roster

Davis at 6-9 118 is a bit of a mirage - and Randle only cameos.

If not Javale, could be someone else coming in.

Nerlens Noels is not a mirage. 

That's why one wonders if things might be getting crowded and who might be the odd men out. 

Would love to have both Noels AND McGee if that is how the chips fall. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 22, 2020, 06:22:08 PM
Boston, post-Hayward, represents the other side of the Bird rights trap. Its roster is a bit like a deflated balloon right now. The Celtics used their MLE on a big man, just like they would have anyway, and another small exception on a guard, and as a result are more or less the exact same team they would have been … except without Hayward. They can’t replace him as an over-the-cap team. It’s possible for Boston to pull off a late, dramatic save by generating a massive $30 million (or so) trade exception in a sign-and-trade with Charlotte, but even that will prove costly. The Celtics need to pony up an asset to include in the trade with Charlotte and then, almost certainly, another asset to bring a player into the exception. At a minimum, replacing Hayward in their salary structure will cost them two draft picks.



Yeah, Danny really needs to make this a sign and trade
Title: XMAS Comes Early For Kiid
Post by: chipstern on November 22, 2020, 06:41:36 PM
This just in. 

One of the items on your wish list has arrived in time for Thanksgiving. 

The Knicks just inked, to a one year contract....

Wait for it...Wait for it...WAIT FOR IT...

AUSTIN RIVERS

Can I Hear A...WTF?

Things getting kind of crowded. 

Rivers would seem to bop a roster spot we were just projecting for McGee. 

 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on November 22, 2020, 06:49:13 PM
Celts extend Tatum 5-195 (5th year is his option).

No more renting for Jason.


Title: Re: XMAS Comes Early For Kiid
Post by: chipstern on November 22, 2020, 06:49:49 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 22, 2020, 06:41:36 PM
This just in. 

One of the items on your wish list has arrived in time for Thanksgiving. 

The Knicks just inked, to a one year contract....

Wait for it...Wait for it...WAIT FOR IT...

AUSTIN RIVERS

Can I Hear A...WTF?

Things getting kind of crowded. 

Rivers would seem to bop a roster spot we were just projecting for McGee. 

 

Another CAA client. 

Color me shocked. 

PS: Got to figure that trades of some sort are on the horizon to thin out the herd. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on November 22, 2020, 07:02:39 PM
yeah the CAA Knicks...
If I had the energy I would point out how, contra Deadspin,  Begley and Bondy point out that you can't keep on making cap space and not signing tertiary players for one year contracts....so  you can make sense or stop making sense....

Also, saw something how Thibs wanted Melo and I think it was a reliable person (and certainly  not Berman)...and I can only say - thank god we didn't sign Melo....

And yes now the PG slot is crowded without a clear sense of direction...Frank is certainly not a starting or even backup PG - that seems pretty clear.  DSJ - when all you hear are word like "reclamation" "faith" "can be coached" and he's into what - year 4...well that's all faith and no reason...
this is not a rebuild as much as a re-sign, and maintain cap space...
so now it's all on the coaching and hopefully Thibs can pull a David Copperfield and make the Knicks appear relevant
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 22, 2020, 07:08:37 PM
I’m betting Frank beats out every other guard on this roster to become the undisputed starting PG. His time is now.

Au Rivs is a decent though not that good backup combo who sets a nice bar for Quickley and Powell as rookies.

I can see us waiving Ed or DSJ if we trade for McGee.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on November 22, 2020, 07:08:44 PM
Ed we hardly knew ya...

and guess what - more 2nd rounders...I might be underwhelmed but gotta admit this is getting fun, who next?


Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
Minnesota is trading Omari Spellman and Jacob Evans and a future second-round pick to New York for F Ed Davis, sources tell ESPN.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on November 22, 2020, 07:09:59 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 22, 2020, 07:08:37 PM
I’m betting Frank beats out every other guard on this roster to become the undisputed starting PG. His time is now.

Of all the things Frank might be, starting PG is not one of them...
Title: Curioser & Curioser
Post by: chipstern on November 22, 2020, 07:41:06 PM
Quote from: Jack Straw on November 22, 2020, 07:08:44 PM
Ed we hardly knew ya...

and guess what - more 2nd rounders...I might be underwhelmed but gotta admit this is getting fun, who next?


Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
Minnesota is trading Omari Spellman and Jacob Evans and a future second-round pick to New York for F Ed Davis, sources tell ESPN.

Spellman 43-110 from THREE last season. 

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/63c93a5376b98837eeac9d634a1a26fd/tenor.gif?itemid=15897389)

PS: Is there some larger deal on the table?  Is the arrival of Spellman a portent as to some new future home for Julius Randle?  Likewise the arrival of Elfrid Payton & Austin Rivers a portent for our beloved Dennis Smith? 

(https://i.gifer.com/Y1Dz.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 22, 2020, 07:49:50 PM
ED DAVID DEALT

And welcome, Mr Rivers
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 22, 2020, 07:52:02 PM
Thibs just not comfortable with Frank on film.

Rivers is no PG.  Wont affect that.  But not sure who starts.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on November 22, 2020, 07:55:04 PM
and Rivers on a longer term deal than usual (for the Knicks)

Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
 · 31m
Update on Rivers' contract: Three years, $10M, source tells ESPN. twitter.com/wojespn/status…
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 22, 2020, 07:59:54 PM
Bullock gotta give up 25
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 22, 2020, 08:01:19 PM
I see Frank in a deal with Knox... soon.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 22, 2020, 08:03:30 PM
Randle, Frank, Knox for a big name does set up right now though I want to see Julius one more year, with better cast
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 22, 2020, 08:03:50 PM
Quote from: Jack Straw on November 22, 2020, 07:55:04 PM
and Rivers on a longer term deal than usual (for the Knicks)

Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
 · 31m
Update on Rivers' contract: Three years, $10M, source tells ESPN. twitter.com/wojespn/status…

Still trying to wrap my head around this. 

Three years? 

Money is light enough by community standards.

Not seeing three years anywhere.  Will take your word for it.  We shall see. 

Rivers is 28.  Seems odd we would make such a commitment. 

As for Spellman and Evans, team options come due on 12-29-20. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on November 22, 2020, 08:04:16 PM
not so sure about that, can a Wildcat be traded off the Knicks...

Begley on Rivers contract - apparently years 2 & 3 and not guaranteed, which makes it even stranger if you ask me...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 22, 2020, 08:05:25 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 22, 2020, 08:03:30 PM
Randle, Frank, Knox for a big name does set up right now though I want to see Julius one more year, with better cast

A BIG Name?

Westbrook?

HARDEN?

[Cue Laugh Track]
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 22, 2020, 08:09:35 PM
Quote from: Jack Straw on November 22, 2020, 08:04:16 PM
not so sure about that, can a Wildcat be traded off the Knicks...

Begley on Rivers contract - apparently years 2 & 3 and not guaranteed, which makes it even stranger if you ask me...

(https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-c0bdeb0013aa5c11a1da556a699e2f6f)

Again, only thing I can conclude is that all this shuffling of cards betokens some sort of subsequent deal.  DEALS.

Don't feel Kiid's Randle, Knox, Ntilikina construct. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 22, 2020, 08:10:01 PM
Oladipo?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 22, 2020, 08:11:08 PM
Chris Fedor: #Cavs have acquired JaVale McGee and 2026 second-round pick from the Los Angeles Lakers, a source tells
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 22, 2020, 08:12:33 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 22, 2020, 08:10:01 PM
Oladipo?

Doesn't add up. 

Due for a big new contract.

Coming off major injury. 

And I mean, where we give up Randle AND Knox. 

Hey, what do I know. 
Title: Meanwhile...
Post by: chipstern on November 22, 2020, 08:14:26 PM
Marc Gasol to the Lakers. 

Great pickup. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 22, 2020, 08:16:56 PM
Buddy Hield, maybe with Parker?  (combined 30-31 mil)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 22, 2020, 08:18:37 PM
Why are you seeing Knox as such an asset?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 22, 2020, 08:18:51 PM
McGee better than Gasol at this point. Neither is our problem, so that’s fine.

I have to look up Jacob Evans.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 22, 2020, 08:26:34 PM
Alright. Evans is a 6’4” SG who hasn’t accomplished much in two years.

Competing with Powell and Harper to stay on the team. Omari is a very useful player on the other hand.

Mitch Noel Spellman
Randle Toppin Knox
RJ Bullock Iggy
Burks Rivers Quickley
Frank Payton DSJ

Rivers being a smaller actual commitment by the Knicks than DSJ.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 22, 2020, 08:32:03 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 22, 2020, 08:18:37 PM
Why are you seeing Knox as such an asset?


He is 21 and has barely scratched the surface of his talent.  Long, athletic, still gorowing into his body, good stroke, showed growth on boards and shot blocking as year played out....too early to give up on him.

I mean for the earthly remains of Jabari Parker.

FUCK Jabari Parker.  Fake Shing Object.

But Buddy Hield?

Mmmmmmm....That would be fucking DOPE. 

But with Bogdonavich likely out the door, Buddy gets the starter's nod he wants.  And likely stays.

Still, Knicks are primed to do SOMETHING, that seems certain. 

PS: That's FOUR new second round picks for those of your keeping score.  
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 22, 2020, 08:33:56 PM
I’d still be looking to move DSJ for someone more useful.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 22, 2020, 08:43:36 PM
John Wall.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 22, 2020, 08:51:11 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 22, 2020, 08:33:56 PM
I’d still be looking to move DSJ for someone more useful.

Something is in play. 

Barrett, Bullock, Quickley, Payton, Rivers, Ntilikina, Smith, Harper, Powell, Pinson, Burks, Evans.

That's 12 points, combos and wings. 

Plus

Robinson, Noels, Randle, Toppin, Knox, Brazdeikis.

That's 6 bigs. 

Eighteen total.

Okay, Harper and Pinson are two-ways. 

That brings the number down to 16. 

So, 13 in uniform and 2 in street clothes. 

Logic dictates some package of players and perhaps some draft picks. 

Not feeling Westbrook or Harden [Chuckle]

Love Kiid's notion of Hield, but my crystal ball is cloudy. 

I love the pickup of Spellman.  Kind of a Baby Wes Unseld body, and a great outside stroke.  He and Toppin could redefine our PF presence.  Julius not the outside stroke to match up with them. 

WHO THE FUCK KNOWS. 

Rose's curve balls break harder than Sandy Koufax's. 

PS: Somewhere, somehow, World Wide Wes has been surgically attached to James Harden's foreskin. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 22, 2020, 08:54:08 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 22, 2020, 08:43:36 PM
John Wall.

Hmmmmmmm....Interesting

Thirty Years Old. 

Strike One.

Major Asshole Coming Off Bad Injury [Played 41 Games in 2017-2018, 32 games in 2018-2019, ZERO in 2019-2020]

Strike Two

2020/21    $41,254,920
2021/22   $44,310,840
2022/23   $47,366,760

Strikes THREE FOUR FIVE AND SIX

Just for GIGGLES....

Went to the REAL GM Trade Checker

Randle, Knox, Smith, Bullock

For

James Harden

Trade Accepted

Let's Assume some of those #2 picks, and one or both of the Dallas #1 picks. 

Or some sweetning on some of our recent aquisitions. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 22, 2020, 09:09:15 PM
Wall wouldnt cost much first 2 years given savings on other 3 players
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 22, 2020, 09:16:09 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 22, 2020, 09:09:15 PM
Wall wouldnt cost much first 2 years given savings on other 3 players

Kiid.

Cost effective? 

Read My Lips.

He

Is

An

ASSHOLE

A

MAJOR ASSHOLE who has played a grand total of 73 games in the past THREE FUCKING YEARS.

And is OWED rougly $134 MILLION over the next three seasons, as are Westbrook and Harden.

PS: Wall does not move the needle.  Harden IS THE FUCKING NEEDLE. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 22, 2020, 09:42:22 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 22, 2020, 09:16:09 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 22, 2020, 09:09:15 PM
Wall wouldnt cost much first 2 years given savings on other 3 players

Kiid.

Cost effective? 

Read My Lips.

He

Is

An

ASSHOLE

A

MAJOR ASSHOLE who has played a grand total of 73 games in the past THREE FUCKING YEARS.

And is OWED rougly $134 MILLION over the next three seasons, as are Westbrook and Harden.

PS: Wall does not move the needle.  Harden IS THE FUCKING NEEDLE.

Yes.

I admit it.

I

Have

Lost

Touch

With

R
E
A
L
I
T
Y
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 22, 2020, 09:46:37 PM
John Wall is GREAT

WE have very little of that on our roster on a  given night
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 22, 2020, 10:01:30 PM
Quinton Mayo with the exact same deal I mentioned

https://sports.yahoo.com/3-teams-could-sense-john-150712488.html
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 22, 2020, 10:03:19 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 22, 2020, 09:46:37 PM
John Wall is GREAT

WE have very little of that on our roster on a  given night

True Dat

He Lacks CHARACTER

Not the man I want to hand over the keys to the car. 

Washington has been paying him quite handsomely the past few years to rehab.

And now somehow his feelings have been bruised and he wants to be traded. 

Dickweed. He ain't THAT Great.

How different is that than James Haden's pique?

James Harden is THAT FUCKING GREAT.  Check out their career stats. 

Hey...I feel you. 

But John Wall ain't James Harden.  He ain't Russell Westbrook.  He ain't Chris Paul.  He ain't Kyrie Irving. 

He AIN'T A KNICK. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 22, 2020, 10:04:54 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 22, 2020, 10:01:30 PM
Quinton Mayo with the exact same deal I mentioned

https://sports.yahoo.com/3-teams-could-sense-john-150712488.html

Bully for you. 

Chin music, after all. 

Still, not a risk I would be willing to shoulder for a Hershel Walker exchange. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 22, 2020, 10:11:36 PM
I will be laughing at Bo all year re:  Rivers.  Hope I get the same chance with you and JW.

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 22, 2020, 10:13:26 PM
Wall does fall in the orbit of the Kentucky Mafia. All sorts of unlikely shit has already occurred due to that.

I’d rather not though.

Unless we add someone else, it doesn’t look like Jones is sticking past camp.

Rivers is currently the 7th best backcourt player on our roster, reflected in the deal he signed. He has the potential to make the jump to a scratch player. Maybe for him this is the team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 22, 2020, 10:33:45 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 22, 2020, 10:11:36 PM
I will be laughing at Bo all year re:  Rivers.  Hope I get the same chance with you and JW.

heh

Bon appetite. 

You have as much chance as Trump has of being in the Oval Office on January 21, 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 23, 2020, 12:14:13 AM
Quote from: chipstern on November 22, 2020, 08:05:25 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 22, 2020, 08:03:30 PM
Randle, Frank, Knox for a big name does set up right now though I want to see Julius one more year, with better cast

A BIG Name?
Westbrook?
HARDEN?

[Cue Laugh Track]

Funny, I read that and was all set to toss out JOHN WALL to watch Chip's head explode.
And then Kiid did exactly that and we got a page or two of cerebrum spatter.

Have I become a kiid level troll?
Can I even aspire to such a level ...?!?

Anyone who knows what going on with these Knix please clue in Bo...
Title: Tales From The Twilight Zone
Post by: chipstern on November 23, 2020, 12:19:19 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 23, 2020, 12:14:13 AM
Quote from: chipstern on November 22, 2020, 08:05:25 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 22, 2020, 08:03:30 PM
Randle, Frank, Knox for a big name does set up right now though I want to see Julius one more year, with better cast

A BIG Name?
Westbrook?
HARDEN?

[Cue Laugh Track]

Funny, I read that and was all set to toss out JOHN WALL to watch Chip's head explode.
And then Kiid did exactly that and we got a page or two of cerebrum spatter.

Have I become a kiid level troll?
Can I even aspire to such a level ...?!?

Anyone who knows what going on with these Knix please clue in Bo...

Embrace The PAIN

It Is Your Friend & Constant Companion

Stay Tuned On Mondy For New Thrills & Chills
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 23, 2020, 12:37:02 AM
JB
@JeffreyBellone


Knicks have added Austin Rivers, Jacob Evans + Omari Spellman to give them 16 NBA contracts and fill 19 of their 20 offseason spots

Another move is coming, since need to be down to 15 NBA contracts by regular season

Cap space estimated to be $18.6MM


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/End9vYvXEAIkucV?format=jpg&name=large)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 23, 2020, 12:57:31 AM
Mike Vorkunov
@MikeVorkunov

The Knicks turned $5 million in cap space into 3 future second-round picks, Omari Spellman (the No. 30 pick in 2018) and Jacob Evans (No. 28 in 2018). Heady maneuvering from Leon Rose, Scott Perry, Brock Aller, Frank Zanin, Walt Perrin, and Co.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 23, 2020, 01:17:20 AM
I used to dislike Au Revoir a lot.
Now I'm more or less neutral on him.
He's upped his defense where he's a pest.
He'll make mistakes, but he also pressures guys and puts forth could effort and makes ballhandlers uncomfortable often enough.

He understands his limitations better and doesn't chuck or take bad shots much anymore.  He's a solid 3-point shooter who can unleash a strong drive now and then.  One thing I like about Rivers game is that he's a bit unpredictable on both ends.  If he going to go chest to chest and keep flicking his hand in, or sag off and play positional D.  Is he going to bomb a 3, make a quick drive, or maybe even pass.

Rivers is always looking to make an impact, so you can forgive some bad shots or sloppy D now and then.  He also has the potential to get hot and go on a scoring run, which is always useful.  And we're paying him peanuts.  I just don't get why he couldn't find a $3M deal with a playoff team.  Why'd he could here?
As long as Rivers isn't starting, i'm fine with him.
But still have no clue what the Knickers be up to ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 23, 2020, 01:34:30 AM
In an alternate universe the NY Hawks:
- drafted Avdija as their starting SF.
- offer sheeted SG Bogdanovich at $18M.
- picked up Rondo and Dunn for 2/$15M & 2/$10 respectively =  $11M this year.
- signed Gallo for $20M
- signed Christian Wood for 13M

Rondo - Jr. Smith 
Bogdanovich - Frenchie
RJB - Avdija - Knox
Randle - Wood
Mitch - Noel

That'd be a helluva lot more interesting than whatever we're going to court.
Rondo @ $7M or Elf @ $5M?  Rondo ...
We wouldn't have to sign Dunn since we have Franc, though Dunn is better

We'd be a much better shooting team with Bogdanx2 and Avdija.
Have a nice set Wing rotation with Bogdan-RJB-Avdija.
Solid Bigs with Mitch-Wood-Randle

Rondo a placeholder until we get a quality starting PG
Wood ready to replace Randle.

Btw, Landry Fields is the assistant general manager of ATL
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 23, 2020, 01:44:31 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 23, 2020, 01:34:30 AM
In an alternate universe the NY Hawks:
- drafted Avdija as their starting SF.
- offer sheeted SG Bogdanovich at $18M.
- picked up Rondo and Dunn for 2/$15M & 2/$10 respectively =  $11M this year.
- signed Gallo for $20M
- signed Christian Wood for 13M


That would be a nice offseason if the plan was to not have cap space next summer.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 23, 2020, 02:01:50 AM
I'll take 3 solid starters and a vet PG over cap space next year, thank you...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 23, 2020, 02:12:46 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 23, 2020, 02:01:50 AM
I'll take 3 solid starters and a vet PG over cap space next year, thank you...

So Avidja is a solid starter?  Based on what?  And Toppin is not solid?

C'mon.


Bog and Wood are nice rotation pieces but do they get the team to the playoffs?

Why spend money on guys who don't get you to the playoffs when you can retain flexibility to make moves to acquire more impactful starters.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 23, 2020, 03:12:05 AM
We’re a fast team with good defenders at the point of attack and at the cup. We have dangerous shooters who are spry enough to get open and a number of players throughout the roster who can put it on the floor and get to the cup. We favor mobile big men over wide bodied bruisers. We are thinnest at SF where the LeBrons, Kawhis and J Tatums of the league will cause us serious problems. Expect us to do things faster and with more purpose on aggregate than we have in previous iterations.

None of our players are coming in with the burden of being clearly overpaid for their role or with expectations of being the team’s savior.

So far, I think these are all good signs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 23, 2020, 03:52:59 AM
Quote from: Kam on November 23, 2020, 02:12:46 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 23, 2020, 02:01:50 AM
I'll take 3 solid starters and a vet PG over cap space next year, thank you...

So Avidja is a solid starter?  Based on what?  And Toppin is not solid?
C'mon.

Fine, so we'd add 3 solid players.
Avdija doesn't need to be a starter since we have RJB.

But he has excelled at pro ball already, albeit in a minor int'l league.
So I guess I'll base my judgement on:
Quote
Avdija became the youngest player to ever win the Israeli League MVP award and led his team to the Israeli League championship.
Avdija was also named Israeli League Israeli Player of the Year and was an All-Israeli League First Team selection.

Touchy?
Didn't say anything about Toppings in that post.
Topping could start if we didn't have Randle.
I have TopDog as a high floor/low ceiling type.

I'm all about improving our team.
And this year was another short punt.

ObiT likely not better than Randle this year and next.
So the only real way to get significant benefit from ObiT is to move Randle.
I'd like our #8 pick to start and play big minutes.  ObiT is 22, not a pup.

Giles signed with POR for a 1 year min deal reportedly.
While we're busy bringing in Ed Davis and flipping him for future 2nd rounders and patting ourselves on the back...

It's quite possible the plan this year is to give paydays to CAA clients and Kentucky alum, and then develop a real plan next year.  Sure hope we didn't draft ObiT because the GM's son is his agent.  It starts seeming like some GOP grift.  Btw, Dolan's a big Trump supporter ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 23, 2020, 04:34:59 AM
Dolan is a piece of shit, like Kiid. We know this.

The vets we signed are quick and high motor. Less jogging, and much less standing around.

Portis
Gibson
Harkless
Dotson
Ellington


Noel
Spellman
Burks
Rivers

Every one of the new guys is more talented than the ones they have replaced. That’s not even counting what the rookies bring to the table.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 23, 2020, 06:36:46 AM
Portis was energetic, just unfocused.
A mistake player.

I like the Nerlens signing.

Burks, Rivers, Bullox
Seems like one will get rerouted to a playoff team ...

If ObiT is stuck behind Randle, then we didn't add one starter for this season ...
A 20W team that doesn't add one new starter ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 23, 2020, 10:39:22 AM
Embrace The PAIN

It Is Your Friend & Constant Companion

Stay Tuned On Monday For New Thrills & Chills


Knicks got much better Sunday
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 23, 2020, 10:45:44 AM
Rondo - Jr. Smith
Bogdanovich - Frenchie
RJB - Avdija - Knox
Randle - Wood
Mitch - Noel

Bullock, Burks, Rivers?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 23, 2020, 10:58:30 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 23, 2020, 01:34:30 AM
In an alternate universe the NY Hawks:
- drafted Avdija as their starting SF.
- offer sheeted SG Bogdanovich at $18M.
- picked up Rondo and Dunn for 2/$15M & 2/$10 respectively =  $11M this year.
- signed Gallo for $20M
- signed Christian Wood for 13M

Rondo - Jr. Smith 
Bogdanovich - Frenchie
RJB - Avdija - Knox
Randle - Wood
Mitch - Noel

That'd be a helluva lot more interesting than whatever we're going to court.
Rondo @ $7M or Elf @ $5M?  Rondo ...
We wouldn't have to sign Dunn since we have Franc, though Dunn is better

We'd be a much better shooting team with Bogdanx2 and Avdija.
Have a nice set Wing rotation with Bogdan-RJB-Avdija.
Solid Bigs with Mitch-Wood-Randle

Rondo a placeholder until we get a quality starting PG
Wood ready to replace Randle.

Btw, Landry Fields is the assistant general manager of ATL

Like this stuff I don't understand in the least. Talk about dreaming small.
Why are you plugging Rondo into your alternate universe?
Why not plug AD into your alternate universe?
Hell of a lot more impactful and EQUAL CHANCE either would sign here.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 23, 2020, 11:02:38 AM
From the "I guess an agent CAN run a franchise successfully" department


Pelinka chose a younger and more dependable scorer (Schroder) over an inconsistent shooter (Green) and an unpredictable No. 28 pick. He did not fret over losing Dwight Howard since his hopes for a larger role contradicted the team’s plans to use him only when the matchups called for it. Nor did Pelinka fret over losing a wing defender (Avery Bradley) since the Lakers won an NBA title just fine without him, partly because of Caldwell-Pope’s presence. The Lakers still still need to address their backcourt with Rajon Rondo’s departure. But they added another trusted veteran in Gasol. And they would not have landed him if not for Pelinka’s prudence with avoiding to match Rondo’s market value and with performing a sign-and-trade to Cleveland.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 23, 2020, 11:07:11 AM
Mrs Hayward speaks

https://twitter.com/IAmJamesStewart/status/1330231026120011780?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1330231026120011780%7Ctwgr%5E&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fhoopshype.com%2Frumors%2F


Shaaaaame, Boston media.


heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 23, 2020, 11:15:34 AM
There's a progressing thought process that Wizards can be a better team by giving up picks and John Wall.  WIZ has plenty to build with around BEAL - and by taking maybe one more player that is viable moving forward - and losing Wall's contract - losing the pick(s) it takes might not be too costly.

Picture Wizards doing this vs not doing it two/three years down the road.

Now - which team makes sense?  Which developing player do you want back?

Spurs. Knicks in the process.  Not sure who else.

https://www.nba.com/wizards/roster
Title: Being Realistic
Post by: bodiddley on November 23, 2020, 11:52:11 AM
If Rondo signed with ATL, why wouldn't he be willing to come to NY?
I was trying to posit a very doable/available scenario.
Basically Rondo would be our stopgap and that'd be the one position we'd still need to address.

Remains to be seen if SACking match the Bogman offer.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 23, 2020, 11:59:31 AM
I dont think Rondo is what L Rose envisioned as his starting PG

Rajon likely takes a NY offer of 15/2 if they tell him it is his show

I am OK that we didnt.  Keeping everyone motivated with current setting.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 23, 2020, 12:00:35 PM
Our guard play should be improved, especially if DSJ and Frank take required third year steps.
Title: Re: Being Realistic
Post by: lesterluv on November 23, 2020, 12:04:21 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 23, 2020, 11:52:11 AM
If Rondo signed with ATL, why wouldn't he be willing to come to NY?
I was trying to posit a very doable/available scenario.
Basically Rondo would be our stopgap and that'd be the one position we'd still need to address.

Remains to be seen if SACking match the Bogman offer.

lol, lol, lol, sure, everybody wants to come to New York.
Rondo doesn't do "regular season." In New York, there's only regular season.
He was never coming.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 23, 2020, 12:09:38 PM
Who do I want to play WITH?
Who do I want to play FOR?

2 questions always at the forefront of a free agent's mind - in addition to playoff prospects, as my good friend Les relates.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 23, 2020, 12:29:58 PM
I'll take Rondo over Elf.
But at least Elf offers a modicum of continuity.

As far as I can tell, no C received more than $10M so far as a FA.

I have Myers Leopard's 2/$20M as the biggest BIG deal.
Ibaka 2/$19M   @ LAC
Tristan 2/$19M @ Celts
Plumlee 3/$25M @ DET
Baynes 2/$14M @ TOR (nice fit)
Nerlens 1/$5M   @ NYK
WCS 2/ $8.2M   @ DAL
Ma Gasol & Dwight on vet min deals (2 years and 1 respectively)
Title: OMARI SPELLMAN [Bo D & The Trojan Women]
Post by: chipstern on November 23, 2020, 12:52:06 PM
While BoD is engaged in one of his interminable WouldaCouldaShoulda laments, now rallying the Trojan Women for a period of abject mourning regarding the tragic lost opportunity of Harry Giles [who could indeed be a nice player, but we just engaged with his doppleganger in Nerlens Noels]....

Our Newest Knick. emerging not from Kentucky blue but the estimable VILLINOVA program where he was part of a starting five that included

Jalen Brunson           JR   G   6-3   199   18.9 Pts, 3.1 Reb, 4.6 Ast

Mikal Bridges           JR   F   6-7   191   17.7 Pts, 5.3 Reb, 1.9 Ast

Donte DiVincenzo   SO   G   6-5   200   13.4 Pts, 4.8 Reb, 3.5 Ast

Omari Spellman      FR   F   6-9   260   10.9 Pts, 8.0 Reb, 0.8 Ast

Eric Paschall           JR   F   6-8   255   10.6 Pts, 5.3 Reb, 2.2 Ast

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=md9XxtPA2UA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=md9XxtPA2UA)

OMARI SPELLMAN

This was shared with me by Elba Alumnus, E-Mann, and I must say, it is pretty dope. 

Spellman is a spry, athletic and broad beamed bruiser (think Montrezl Harrell), with a significant motor, and can REALLY KNOCK DOWN THE THREE. 

His Villinova stats in 40 games for his one and done 2017-2018 season. 

PTS
10.9

TRB
8.0

AST
0.8

FG%
47.6

FG3%
43.3

FT%
70.0

eFG%
57.3

An interesting pickup.  And again, while mourning the tragic missed opporunities of Christian Wood (who did indeed show significant improvement and upside in a breakout 2019-2020) and Harry Giles, they promise nothing that we might not expect from Obi Toppin and Nerlens Noels, let alone Omari Spellman. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 23, 2020, 12:57:43 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 23, 2020, 12:29:58 PM
I'll take Rondo over Elf.
But at least Elf offers a modicum of continuity.

As far as I can tell, no C received more than $10M so far as a FA.

I have Myers Leopard's 2/$20M as the biggest BIG deal.
Ibaka 2/$19M   @ LAC
Tristan 2/$19M @ Celts
Plumlee 3/$25M @ DET
Baynes 2/$14M @ TOR (nice fit)
Nerlens 1/$5M   @ NYK
WCS 2/ $8.2M   @ DAL
Ma Gasol & Dwight on vet min deals (2 years and 1 respectively)

If you are keeping a list add R Lopez

Lakers deal with Gasol should be more than min.
Title: Rondo
Post by: chipstern on November 23, 2020, 01:01:27 PM
Uh, yes, I will take him over Elfrid Payton as well, Bo. 

But there does appear to be this pattern trending, where FREE AGENTS do not appear eager to sign on for the New York experience.  Nor have our experiences in this arena proven to be a viable way forward. 

So we have some more short turn, flippable, one and done/team option contracts to choose from. 

Not appetizing, but potentially nutritious.   

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 23, 2020, 01:06:38 PM
The term "ball mover" has become popular in front offices.  While not necessarily "creators" these types hit the open man and with proper timing, while also being able to advance the ball up the court if asked

Rivers - check
Quickley - check
Burks - check
Title: Berman
Post by: chipstern on November 23, 2020, 01:07:34 PM
Day In

Day Out

Some of the most feckless BS of any beat reporter.

Now reporting that Knicks hired Johnnie Bryant as part of their FAILED PLOY to deploy him as an enticelemtn to LURE Donovan Mitchell to the Knicks as a FA. 

Never mind that pre Max Extension, he would've been a RESTRICTED FREE AGENT, and thus, Utah, could not only offer him an extra year, but match any offer. 

I mean, they just GAVE HIM A MAX EXTENSION A FULL YEAR BEFORE THEY WERE OBLIGATED TO DO SO. 

Dumb motherfucker. 
Title: Check Mates
Post by: chipstern on November 23, 2020, 01:09:08 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 23, 2020, 01:06:38 PM
The term "ball mover" has become popular in front offices.  While not necessarily "creators" these types hit the open man and with proper timing, while also being able to advance the ball up the court if asked

Rivers - check
Quickley - check
Burks - check

Barrett - check
Title: DD
Post by: chipstern on November 23, 2020, 01:13:32 PM
Adrian Wojnarowski: Free agent G Damyean Dotson has agreed to a two-year, $4M deal with the Cleveland Cavaliers, his agent Chris Gaston of @Famfirstsports tells ESPN. – via Twitter wojespn

Good landing spot for Dot.

Happy for the kid.  He played hard, D'd up and enjoyed some significant nights for our Knicks, knocking down threes, and accepting his ever shifting role, or the lack thereof, with professionalism and maturity. 

I wish him luck. 
Title: Roster
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 23, 2020, 01:34:11 PM
Seems obvious we will rid ourselves of Evans, as constructed no?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 23, 2020, 01:34:57 PM
I see Ma Gasol at $2.63M which is the vet min for a player with more than 10 years.

But the Lakes pay all of that, and the league doesn't cover a chunk as usual, since LAL signed him for more than one year.

I was mainly wondering if any C's got paid, and trying to gauge the C market.
There's a glut of C's and the position has become devalued.
But this crop was mainly backups and oldheads.
Does show you can get a quality backup C for cheap, as we did.

I saw one game where Nerlens blocked 3 shots near the rim on the same possession.

A flier of Spellman instead of Giles.  Sure, why not.
The two times I saw Spellman wasn't enough to determine whether he has potential or not.  He puts forth effort.

Of course lots of guys on one year contracts (or on the trade block) isn't really the way to build a team.  And those two categories apply to nearly our whole team except Mitch, RJB and ObiT.
Title: Re: OMARI SPELLMAN [Bo D & The Trojan Women]
Post by: Jack Straw on November 23, 2020, 01:36:10 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 23, 2020, 12:52:06 PM

Our Newest Knick. emerging not from Kentucky blue but the estimable VILLINOVA program where he was part of a starting five that included


So maybe Knicks just want Wildcats, not nec. UK

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on November 23, 2020, 01:43:11 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 23, 2020, 12:00:35 PM
Our guard play should be improved, especially if DSJ and Frank take required third year steps.
yeah except they're in their fourth year? 

Well we'll see exactly what coaching can do with these two reclamation projects...

Wasn't one of the  points of hiring someone truly "connected" like  Rose and then WWW,  was to sell the likes of Rajon and others on the limitless possibilities of playing in NYC? 

With all the disruptions this season the FO gets a pass, but next year with all the conserved FA money from resigning rather than rebuilding, the FO will need to step up their game and get going on whatever vision they are selling....

Can anyone post the recent Vorkunov in the Athletic - Chip it's right up your alley - Knicks boring is a good thing....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 23, 2020, 01:59:53 PM
You know this place was left an absolute wasteland by Mills and Fiz.

There weren't any cornerstone pieces available or jumping to come here.
Yes, no magic was worked.
But now we have a coach and apparently some competency.
Some nice young players and decent talent coming in.

Austin Rivers isn't my fave player, but he's a hell of a lot more likely to give you good minutes through the coming regular season than an injury prone and disinterested in the mundane Rondo. And I LOVE Rondo.

I don't really know what folks were expecting, but I'm looking forward to the season start and happy to have some more draft picks and cash in the pocket for future spend.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 23, 2020, 02:04:48 PM
Wasn't one of the  points of hiring someone truly "connected" like  Rose and then WWW,  was to sell the likes of Rajon and others on the limitless possibilities of playing in NYC?


You said it

One of - not solely - and not solely this year, either

A guy like Wes is well connected throughout the league.  Those connections may pay off in time.  But first we need to look like a solid organization, one that can be trusted and that  is moving on an incline.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 23, 2020, 02:08:57 PM
The two times I saw Spellman wasn't enough to determine whether he has potential or not. 


Which is why you let the numbers (given to you twice) - as well as accolades from respected source (Jay Wright, perhaps - do some research from his draft year) speak.

That he was a one and done speaks to his talent at least
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 23, 2020, 02:11:15 PM
Speaking of looking at a player's history, TOPPIN's is interesting

A serious late bloomer (couldnt dunk as a high school junior).  Needed an extra year at PREP, then a redshirt collegiate year - thus though only a soph is the age of a senior

Developed at an easy going pace rather than being asked like some of these other blue chippers to join the best of the best and be great all at the same time, while so young,
Title: Rose & Wes On The Clock
Post by: chipstern on November 23, 2020, 02:21:57 PM
Quote from: Jack Straw on November 23, 2020, 01:43:11 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 23, 2020, 12:00:35 PM
Our guard play should be improved, especially if DSJ and Frank take required third year steps.
yeah except they're in their fourth year? 

Well we'll see exactly what coaching can do with these two reclamation projects...

Wasn't one of the  points of hiring someone truly "connected" like  Rose and then WWW,  was to sell the likes of Rajon and others on the limitless possibilities of playing in NYC? 

With all the disruptions this season the FO gets a pass, but next year with all the conserved FA money from resigning rather than rebuilding, the FO will need to step up their game and get going on whatever vision they are selling....

Can anyone post the recent Vorkunov in the Athletic - Chip it's right up your alley - Knicks boring is a good thing....

I saw that piece on my cellular device. 

Interesting.  Similar take to the cat on the NY TIMES.  Slow but steady as oppossed to, it was his metaphor, pushing all of your chips to the middle of the table. 

As for Rose and WWW next season?

I still do not see Big Splash Free Agency as tenable going forward, compared with Player Developmnet.

Giannis?

Kawhi?

LeBron? 

And let us revisit Donovan Mitchell and Berman's ludicrous screed. 

NYC and Dallas had their shots and took Frank and Dennis, while Donovan and Bam went at 13 & 14. 

The 13-14-15 picks for 2020 were Kiri Lewis, Aaron Nesmith and Cole Anthony.  With Hampton taken before and Pritchard taken right after our own Quickley at 25. 

So it needn't be a top 3 lottery pick to get a signficant contributor. 

We have our own #1 and the Dallas #1 next season. 

I am not anticipating Kawhi walking through THAT DOOR. 

Finally, as for swinging for the fences?

Antonio McDyess
Stephon Marbury
Eddy Curry
Amare Stoudamire
Carmelo Anthony
Andrea Bargnani

I miss anybody

By the mid 1960s, to the best of my recollection we were conservative in trades and purposeful in our drafting.  Somehow we stockpiled Dick Van Arsdale, Howie Komives, Dave Stallworth, Willis Reed, Cazzie Russell, Bill Bradley, Walt Frazier, Phil Jackson and Mike Riordan.  We lost Van Arsdale to the phoenix Suns in the expansion draft, and brought on Walt Bellamy and Dick Barnett in trades, and when we conclusively did make a big move, and push our chips to the center of the table, it was to exchange Walt Bellamy (a future Hall of Famer) and Komives for DAVE DEBUSSHERE, who was a needle mover and a culture changer.  Two championships and several competitive title runs during his time here. 

https://theknickswall.com/most-impactful-trades-knicks-history-pacific-central-northwest-divisions/ (https://theknickswall.com/most-impactful-trades-knicks-history-pacific-central-northwest-divisions/)

Here is a litany of Knicks Trades over the years, the good the bad and the ugly, Gerald Henderson, Eddy Curry and Carmelo Anthony standing out amongst exchanges that continue to bite us in the dick.

I feel likewise towards big free agents. 

Kiid asserts that John Wall IS a GREAT Player. 

K

John Wall WAS A GREAT PLAYER.  We have yet to see evidence of his post-injury skill set going forward. 

Given the price and the risk?

Our humble Austin Rivers signing looks quite reasonable compared to 140 million over the next three seasons for [potentially] the earthly remains of John Wall. 

So I understand your Rose & Wes are on the clock premise for 2021 free agency, but I'm not judging them like that. 

Let's see if we can at least make a run at the 8th seed in the playoffs, though that is surely feeling....daunting. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 23, 2020, 02:24:44 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 23, 2020, 02:04:48 PM
Wasn't one of the  points of hiring someone truly "connected" like  Rose and then WWW,  was to sell the likes of Rajon and others on the limitless possibilities of playing in NYC?


You said it

One of - not solely - and not solely this year, either

A guy like Wes is well connected throughout the league.  Those connections may pay off in time.  But first we need to look like a solid organization, one that can be trusted and that  is moving on an incline.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 23, 2020, 02:26:59 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on November 23, 2020, 01:59:53 PM
You know this place was left an absolute wasteland by Mills and Fiz.

There weren't any cornerstone pieces available or jumping to come here.
Yes, no magic was worked.
But now we have a coach and apparently some competency.
Some nice young players and decent talent coming in.

Austin Rivers isn't my fave player, but he's a hell of a lot more likely to give you good minutes through the coming regular season than an injury prone and disinterested in the mundane Rondo. And I LOVE Rondo.

I don't really know what folks were expecting, but I'm looking forward to the season start and happy to have some more draft picks and cash in the pocket for future spend.

Me, too. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 23, 2020, 02:29:23 PM
I'll be happy if Franc and Jr. Smith make the expected 2nd year leap ...

The Q on ObiT is whether he'll start off good and plateau or has another level in him.

Cardinal Spellman was the last pick of the 1st round.
ATL traded him to GS who traded him to MINN who traded him to NYK.
I guess everybody wants him ...
Seems his main value depends on whether his 3's are dependable.
GSW had him taking corner 3's, which he hit at a good rate.
Early on in college Spellman weighed 300 pounds.

Knix never seem to use the corner 3.

Did anyone pick up Trier?
PHX was said to be interested.
I was rooting for Dotson, but he got lost in the reshuffle.
I would have preferred adding one of Rivers/Burks and keeping Dot.
Believe it or not, but I'd go with Rivers.

Title: PAT RILEY
Post by: chipstern on November 23, 2020, 02:36:50 PM
Loses Jae Crowder because they have prioritized taking care of Bam.

They replace Jae with Moe Harkless

Get Avery Bradley in free agency to give them back court depth, shooting and a committed defensive stopper at PG. 

And draft PF Precious Achiuwa to join Bam in the trenches. 

This is what a consistent, competitive, winning culture looks like. 

TOM THIBODEAU has spoken glowingly and at length as to his admiration and respect for Pat Riley and HEAT CULTURE. 

We begin our baby steps within the week. 

GO THIBS

Go Knicks
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 23, 2020, 02:37:25 PM
I was expecting to add at least one quality starter, and be able to see a team vaguely taking shape.  Instead we'll just rerun last year's 20W team with new faces.

Knix must be in the running for most disappointing off-season.
Magic, Griz and a few others did little.
IND too, but at least they have a good team.

Title: DOT v RIVERS
Post by: chipstern on November 23, 2020, 02:44:33 PM
I suspect, the Knicks "reasoning" vis a vis DOTSON, was that, presumably, given his shifting and uncertain role these past three years, and while respecting his growth and professionalism, that bringing him back with an undefined role and forcing him to revisit the competiive scrum, with no clear pathway to minutes, would neither be fair to Dot nor tenable for Coach Thibs. 

A clean slate all around. 

I really wanted him back.  Thought he was a great kid, a committed defender, and a good sniper. 

PS: Spellman.  Listed as 260 at Villinova.  May very well have had some Sweetney moments since arriving in the league.  If you look at these highlights, he appears to be moving in a positive direction, body wise, and can surely his those corner threes. 

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=md9XxtPA2UA)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 23, 2020, 02:54:00 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 23, 2020, 02:37:25 PM
I was expecting to add at least one quality starter, and be able to see a team vaguely taking shape.  Instead we'll just rerun last year's 20W team with new faces.

Knix must be in the running for most disappointing off-season.
Magic, Griz and a few others did little.
IND too, but at least they have a good team.

And who was that QUALITY Starter, exactly? 

Wood?

Excellent choice going forward, but Toppin made that null and void, so instead of going to Diddley's Of Rodeo Drive, they go to Walmart for Spellman and Noels. 

Gallinari?

A solid talent, but he is in his 30s.  And that obviates Knox and Brazdeikis and Barrett, before we've even given them a chance to make a case for themselves or to up their value as assets. 

Given our roster, and the wasted player development of last year when we brough in STARTERS, more or less, you are frustrated by the Knicks caution or gun shyness, while I am comforted. 

In a weird ass Panedmic Season, when our lives and lifestyles themselves are in transition, it does not trouble me to see the Knicks playing it close to the vest, and laying it all at Thibs, Bryant and Payne's doorstep. 

We are ALL IN ON YOUTH and do not need to make half steps. 

PS: I really liked Bradley, and Wood was clearly on our radar until Toppin fell in our lap. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 23, 2020, 02:57:18 PM
We have our own #1 and the Dallas #1 next season.


So KP being hurt again will be to our benefit?

What's the protection on the Mavs pick?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 23, 2020, 03:00:14 PM
Loses Jae Crowder because they have prioritized taking care of Bam.


The reason for Miami "allowing" Crowder to leave (they actually offered Jae much more annual cash, but in a one year plus one pact) was to keep their flexibility for '21-'22
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 23, 2020, 03:04:14 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 23, 2020, 02:57:18 PM
We have our own #1 and the Dallas #1 next season.


So KP being hurt again will be to our benefit?

What's the protection on the Mavs pick?

There is NO Protection on 2021.  Whereas 2023 is 1-10 protected. 

And yes, Pat offered Jae 12 million for one year.  I believe Suns gave him $10 million x 3

Pat keeping his powder dry for 2021.

And so, apparently are Rose and Wes. 

Even wtihout KP, I would not count on Mavs ending up in the lottery, unless Drew Breez fractures all of Luka's ribs. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 23, 2020, 03:34:22 PM
And yes, Pat offered Jae 12 million for one year.  I believe Suns gave him $10 million x 3


Pretty sure it was 14

But the second year at 14 not a guarantee, so Jae would have had to do free agency again next year

Re:  who is the starter coming in this year -

though I had stated this year's first rounder need not be a starter, I would think Toppin has that chance.

Certainly if we did the Wall or other deal, letting Randle go - but even with Julius at the 5, Mitch off the pine to eat up second units and avoid foul woes.

So many options for Thibs.  I recall the days sitting with wings and pints discussing our options at the high school level - but that usually with just 8-10 viable players.  Memories,,,,,
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 23, 2020, 04:16:25 PM
The bogdanovic situation is still evolving. Sacramento tried to trade him to the Bucks so they're willing to let him go (they were originally going to accept DiVincenzo, Ilyasova, and Wilson) but are they willing to let him go for nothing?   Knicks could get involved there in a few ways.

1. Sac matches the offer and the Knicks trade Julius Randle for Bogdanovic. 
2. Sac matches the offer and the Knicks trade Julius Randle for another piayer... say a Harrison Barnes or a Buddy Heild.
3. Sac matches the offer and still trades him to the Hawks for Clint Capella.  The Knicks get involved and use cap space to trade for a big to replace Capella and send that player to Atlanta while also sending a surplus wing player to Sacramento.  In return the Knicks get some picks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 23, 2020, 04:35:47 PM
KZ had minor meniscus surgery.
Expected to be ready around Jan 1.
So might just miss the first 2 weeks.
Barring any setbacks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 23, 2020, 04:49:43 PM
Cause KP never has any set backs. I’ve always thought Rik Smits arc was a serious likelihood for him.

Burks & Barrett gives you two 6’6” tall guys, at 215 & 220 respectively who can do all the guard things while putting up 15 points each. Bullock is never quite that productive, but will keep the chain of solid heady production going when one or the other goes to the bench. We’ve got quick defenders who spread the floor vertically and horizontally. If we can find a way to play fast and efficiently in the face of pressure, we could be pretty good.

I’m hoping we don’t blow this up and get to see most of this group on the floor.

If we do wind up blowing this up, my bet is that it would be to acquire John Wall.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 23, 2020, 05:09:04 PM
By the way, I think Nerlens Noel believes he is coming here to compete for the starting C slot

Which of course is good.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 23, 2020, 05:29:08 PM
Everyone should compete for every slot. That’s how we find our best combinations and that’s how our players up and down the pecking order get better.

This roster as constructed, minus Smith Jr or Evans, can get you 110 points a night playing a normal modern NBA offense. We have the talent to accomplish this, not easily but with steady work. That’s a little worse than league average in year 1, about 3 points better than we were last year. We should get there based on less lane clogging and more foot speed alone even if this group doesn’t improve its accuracy from deep. A similar improvement on the defensive end from the aforementioned foot speed and from Thibs actually being a pro at coaching NBA team defense, we should also be able to hold teams below 110 more often than we did last year when we allowed an average over 112.

Robinson Noel Barrett Burks Ntilikina seems like a group that could apply defensive pressure like we haven’t seen since Camby and Spree shared the floor.

There are no expectations for this group and not much in the way of limits either.

If Thibs and staff can unlock more efficient shooting out of Payton and/or Frank running the point, we could become a quick rising team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 23, 2020, 05:32:23 PM
I’m also not writing off Randle or looking to trade him at this point. I think he can shine a lot more on this roster than he did with our personnel and play style last year. We may very well feel we’ve lucked into a bargain when we pick up his option next year.

MPJ treatment for ObTop in year one, small roles from which to show out and extend.
Title: Expectations
Post by: chipstern on November 23, 2020, 07:46:07 PM
Competition
Title: Your 2020-2021 Knicks Training Camp Scrum
Post by: chipstern on November 23, 2020, 08:30:35 PM
(https://www.criminalelement.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/depraved.gif)

Centers [BIGS]: Mitchell Robinson, Nerlens Noels

Power Forward/Centers [BIGS]: Julius Randle, Obi Toppin, Omari Spellman

Small Forwards/Power Forwards [BIG WINGS]: Kevin Knox, Ignas Brazdeikis

Shooting Guards/Small Forwards [WINGS]: RJ Barrett, Reggie Bullock, Alec Burks, Jacob Evans

Point Guards/Combo Guards [COMBO GUARDS]: Austin Rivers, Elfrid Payton, Frank Ntilikina, Dennis Smith, Immaneul Quickley, Jared Harper [2-Way], Theo Pinson [2-Way], Myles Powell [Exhibit 10]

I count 19. 

Did we miss anyone? 

Using salary estimates for recently acquired players, the Knicks have $18.6 million in cap space, along with their $4.8 million Room Mid-Level Exception to use.

(https://i.imgur.com/lPOf1N3.gif)

The Knicks need to spend another $7 million to get to the NBA floor.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 23, 2020, 09:00:57 PM
Technically the Knicks can just split the 7million cross the members of the final roster.  So everyone gets an extra half a mil.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 23, 2020, 09:23:37 PM
Big move hasn't been made yet
Title: Big Move?
Post by: chipstern on November 23, 2020, 09:45:29 PM
Do Tell?

Projections?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 23, 2020, 10:10:47 PM
Just has to be bigger than Noel, Burks, Rivers, Spellman.

Much as I like those deals you would think Thibs is pushing Leon for something a bit juicier.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 23, 2020, 10:11:56 PM
As of now some forum faves are not seeing much of the court
Title: Brand New & Used
Post by: chipstern on November 23, 2020, 10:44:19 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 23, 2020, 10:10:47 PM
Just has to be bigger than Noel, Burks, Rivers, Spellman.

Much as I like those deals you would think Thibs is pushing Leon for something a bit juicier.

C: Noel
PF: Spellman
PF: Toppin
SF/SG: Burks
SG/PG: Rivers, Quickley

I count six. 

What is out there? 

A dynamic 3&D?

A point guard? 

(https://media1.giphy.com/media/YFGMOyTXHEQRGGXcPA/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 23, 2020, 11:01:07 PM
For fun - check me on these names


Whiteside

Kaminsky

Korver

Title: Underwhlemed
Post by: chipstern on November 23, 2020, 11:16:53 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 23, 2020, 11:01:07 PM
For fun - check me on these names

Whiteside

Kaminsky

Korver

K

Whiteside
[Noels]

Kaminsky
[Spellman]

Korver
[Burks]

Are they "better" than the players we got?

A case "could" be made. 

Better fits?

Mmmmmm....

(https://media1.giphy.com/media/tRKepbmSCy75u/200.gif)

Whiteside? 

He is 31.  Solid presence. 

One would SUSPECT, he WANTS starters minutes and to get paid. 

I mean, why haven't the Pistons inked him?

The Rockets just gave Cousins a non-guaranteed pact. 

Kings supposedly have interest. 

Would he be open to coming off the bench/platooning with Robinson? 

Kaminsky?

What upside would he present to the Knicks that checkmated Noels or Spellman? 

Korver?

Wonderful.  All time great sniper.  Astonishing 3-pt% [career .429]

Is he better than Bullock or Burks?

Damn right?

He is 39 years old. 

Alas.

Would be a nice addition to a contending team, like the Celtics, the Heat, the Clippers, the Raptors. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 23, 2020, 11:37:48 PM
Knox....


plus Smith......


for.......



BEVERLEY
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 23, 2020, 11:43:54 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 23, 2020, 11:37:48 PM
Knox....


plus Smith......


for.......



BEVERLEY

(https://media3.giphy.com/media/JRhS6WoswF8FxE0g2R/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 23, 2020, 11:47:30 PM
CERTAINLY a Thibs type

And available
Title: The Scott Layden Legacy
Post by: chipstern on November 23, 2020, 11:48:32 PM
Back in 2003, when Kyle Korver was selected with the #51 pick, Layden selected Slavko Vranes at #39. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 23, 2020, 11:52:35 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 23, 2020, 11:01:07 PM
For fun - check me on these names

Whiteside
Kaminsky
Korver

kiid probably forgot that Whiteside isn't actually white ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 23, 2020, 11:53:50 PM
Beverly, Barrett, Bullock (or late upgrade), Randle, Noel (or upgrade)

Payton, Rivers, Burks, Toppin, Robinson

Ntlikina, Quickley, Brazdekis, Spellman, Powell
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 23, 2020, 11:54:09 PM
I'm impressed that anyone is optimistic about this new patchwork team...
Title: Not me
Post by: carlos123 on November 24, 2020, 12:49:44 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 23, 2020, 11:54:09 PM
I'm impressed that anyone is optimistic about this new patchwork team...

But I don’t dare to OPENLY agree with you because Chipstern would castigate me for PANDERING!!!

Alice, I mean Chip, you’re the greatest! 😁
Title: To The MOON, Alice
Post by: chipstern on November 24, 2020, 05:49:57 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on November 24, 2020, 12:49:44 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 23, 2020, 11:54:09 PM
I'm impressed that anyone is optimistic about this new patchwork team...

But I don’t dare to OPENLY agree with you because Chipstern would castigate me for PANDERING!!!

Alice, I mean Chip, you’re the greatest! 😁

Hey, Bo and I part company on the #1 pick, and the conservative approach the team has taken. 

Some might say, wishywashy.  Some might say lame. 

In talking with forum alumni Nagel out on the left coast, he, like many Knicks fans was anticipating the BIG SPLASH. 

I'm not sure WHAT IF ANYTHING I was anticipating. 

What I was HOPING, was that we did not, as I have driven the metaphor into the ground, felt compelled to swing for the fences at all costs. 

Free agency and the Knicks has always seemed a cruel mirage to me. 

AN OBSESSION WITH SHINY OBJECTS. 

Among which Rabid Rabbi Berman listed

There is a story in the POST about how the Knicks chances at obtaining Victor Oladipo are evaporating. 

I mean seriously. 

"But when they missed on main targets such as Fred VanVleet, Gordon Hayward, D.J. Augustin and Carmelo Anthony, the Knicks adjusted. The Post has learned Rose even made a big push for athletic power forward Jerami Grant, who signed with Detroit."

Okay, first, I, not unlike BoD, championed certain free agent targets, such as VanVleet and Grant and Augustin. 

I was not an enthusiast for the Chris Paul pursuit, but felt if he wanted to be here, it could be tenable.  He wanted to be near his family in Phoenix, had a relationship with Coach Monty Williams, and found the Suns to be farther along in their rebuild than the Knicks, so Sam Presti accomodated him. 

Van Vleet was my number one choice, but I never thought we had a realistic shot at FVV, not so much a matter of money, as I felt he was a product of the Raptors system, and wanted to carry on their competitive ascent and sustain their competitive continuity. 

The Knicks probably queered their chances at Augustin with their pursuit of Hayward, and I breathed a sigh of relief when Gordon Hayward went with the Hornets, as $120,000,000 seemed a garish four year commitment to someone whose prime was a few years back before his horrific injury.  If he had been willing to accept something like the Randle deal's numbers and flex, well that's different. 

But Milwaukee offered DJ three yeas guaranteed at $7 million per to play for a contender.  Grant got three years guaranteed to play for a rebuilding Detroit.  Maybe he perceived NY had a log jam at SF and PF, and wanted to clearly be THE MAN. 

Charlotte has a growing young core of players.  When their maturity starts to kick in, GH will be 32-33, and sucking up cap space which might better be spent on younger puppies. 

The notion there is something tragic about Oladipo slipping away flummoxes me.  He is coming off of a really bad injury on the final year of a contract, and could jump ship next summer.  Is he the player he once was for the Hayward Money he is going to demand, if not command?

And Carmelo was a target?  FUCK YOU.  In what alternative universe? 

Now Christian Wood?  I was down for that before Toppin. 

Westbrook?  Another shiny object, certainly a great talent, and still a dynamic force, but a diminishing one at 32 and owed 40-42-44 over the next few years.  Do we really want to tie ourselves down to giving him the keys to the car.  Five years ago, or when OKC drafted him just ahead of Gallinari. 

Should we have made a run at Gallniari as Atlanta did?  They are farther along with their franchise player than we are, Trae relative to RJ.  Anyway....

These are the things that make BoD plotz, as WE NEED STARTERS. 

This is where we part company.

To me...we need competition, continuity and culture. 

Stockpiling draft picks and cap space seems prudent to me, THE ONE STRATEGEM THAT THE KNICKS HAVE NEVER COMMITTED TO, and because NY's chaos and instability over the past 10-20 years is still reeking to high heaven, squandering assets in search of quick fixes and shiny objects, FREE AGENTS THE LIKES OF DURANT AND IRVING were like, THE KNICKS, are you fucking kidding me. 

Given our fan base and the derision of the media, it takes a certain amount of sand to proceed as the Knicks are now doing, with the pressure to make a big splash, GET STARTERS as Bo laments, is intense. 

When was the last time we committed to YOUTH?

Maybe in the mid-60s.  We had a nice mix of young players surrounding Bernard during Hubie's run.  We had a yoiung core around Patrick during his initial run in RileyBall. 

Bo is right about one thing. 

Do we have a single standout bell cow talent/leader such as we had with Red, Hubie and Riley's Knicks. 

We do not appear to. 

The challenge thus is to grow our own, least ways, to nurture what we have, while Thibs seeks to reboot our culture. 

Am I unduly hopeful? 

Oh, Chef Of The Future, Can THIBS Core A Apple? 

Stay tuned. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 24, 2020, 05:53:24 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 23, 2020, 11:54:09 PM
I'm impressed that anyone is optimistic about this new patchwork team...

No one is putting money on them to win the division. 10-7 get a play in this year. That might happen.

I think the team has big plans for Knox if he can step to the assignments.

I’d like to see if we can move DSJ for a big or to make room for a big who’s really big.

If someone wanted DSJ, moving Kaminsky into that spot would make some sense to me as he has enough lower girth to put his body on really big men and enough game to draw them out or punish them for not coming out, as the case may be.

Mitch Noel Kaminski is a nice Center rotation to have. That would also be their order in the depth chart.

Mitch Noel Kaminsky
Randle Toppin Spellman
Barrett Knox Iggy
Burks Bullock Quickley
Frank Payton Rivers

Not a world beater, but a really fun team.

Chip, I’d say Randle is still 1A with Barrett & Burks taking 1B and 1C depending on matchups.
Title: lol, they wrote this just for Bo..
Post by: lesterluv on November 24, 2020, 07:15:27 AM
The Knicks baffle fans by continuing to make moves that actually make sense

https://deadspin.com/the-knicks-baffle-fans-by-continuing-to-make-moves-that-1845734851 (https://deadspin.com/the-knicks-baffle-fans-by-continuing-to-make-moves-that-1845734851)



***Bo's just upset because he's still getting over the loss of his fave coach (Fizwhale) and organizational strategy (losing as much as possible all the time)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 24, 2020, 09:34:13 AM
Charlotte has a growing young core of players.  When their maturity starts to kick in, GH will be 32-33, and sucking up cap space which might better be spent on younger puppies.


Meanwhile who gets DRAWN to Charlotte as their win total increases annually?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 24, 2020, 09:39:51 AM
I think Barrett is being undersold.

But I guess being careful with platitudes is wise in a way.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 24, 2020, 10:04:51 AM
Re:  Whiteside

The sign him and deal him later for picks route

The Knicks are the other team with lots of cap space, but they seem set at the center spot with Mitchell Robinson, Nerlens Noel, and masquerading 4-man Julius Randle. New York could theoretically sign him anyway, with the same rationale as the Thunder above. Wherever Whiteside ends up, he’s likely to be a bargain. His shortcomings are well-documented, but the production still matters, and it’s elite. At a BORD$ value of $17.2 million, he’ll likely be paid barely half his estimated value. – via John Hollinger @ The Athletic

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 24, 2020, 11:08:45 AM
Just a reminder - Spellman was a trade acquisition so could move on in a deal - unlike Noel

This in the event we add a Whiteside - or if we don't and just see better value in the trade proposed.

Thus a Frank/Knox/Randle? package could add another piece in Omari.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 24, 2020, 11:17:09 AM
Keeping Randle would seem wise.  Toppin not the best board guy nor is Mitch

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 24, 2020, 11:21:49 AM
Knick moves only make sense if you think it's a good idea to waste another year and not get better.

It's really not much to ask to add one legit starter this offseason, especially since we have lots of cap space (even needed to get up to the minimum team salary) and we only have one legit starter (Randle) who we might be looking to dump.

Yeah, I think a goal and basically a requisite was to add at least one legit starter.
Maybe we weren't able to do so for various reasons, but I'd call it a definite failure and a guarantee of wasting another year.

Lots of one year deals and guys on the trading block does not exactly equate to chemistry. 
Burks, Rivers, Spellman, Noel.  Will any of them be Knix beyond one season?
New coach, new front office, many new faces.  Starting over again like usual.

One legit starter added in would've seemed important.

Let's hope Thibs plays the yute lots minutes because yute development is all we can hope for.  Of course it will be hampered by weak PG play.   But do you bring Thibs in to nurture yute and develop Franc and Knox Smith and Obi and Mitch?  Will he do that? Does he play 10?  Or do Thibs go heavy with Randle and other vets?

As for Fizz, I pegged him as a bs-er before he started. 

Let's face it, we have another crappy team and a we're a crappy franchise.
Title: Omari
Post by: chipstern on November 24, 2020, 11:33:30 AM
Not seeing the need for more massive size, as in Whiteside. 

Poetentially having both Toppin AND Spellman as PFs who can play pick and roll and go to the hoop and knock down threes is more tantalizing to me then a Kaminsky or Whiteside. 

If Randle can improve his three-point shooting, as was beginning to happen at season's end, and give us the odd minutes at center, than a Robinson/Noles platoon should give us plenty of defensive coverage. 

And CLEARLY, the Knicks are in NO HURRY to put Knox out on the open market for a handful of magic beans.  T
Title: BoD
Post by: chipstern on November 24, 2020, 11:36:51 AM
And you're in a crappy frame of mind regarding the Knicks. 

Asked And Answered

There may be a team for you in Brooklyn that satsifies your nutrutional requirements. 

And who WAS that pivotal starter that we missed out on, pray tell? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 24, 2020, 11:37:30 AM
Noel should start.  As could Burks or Rivers.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on November 24, 2020, 11:52:59 AM
Quote
Let's face it, we have another crappy team and a we're a crappy franchise.

This is not a troll-but the Knicks are the 5th place team in the Atlantic probably for at least 2 more years. Maybe longer.

And a lottery team.

But you want the 1st pick or 2nd or 3rd, not the 8th or 14th.

Basically the 76ers plan- its painful, but it will get you out of NBA hell evenually.

The game plan should be accumulate picks through trades and accept you will suck and get good lottery picks for the next few years and rebuild.

and play the young guys and see who are keepers until you start hitting in the draft.

As you guys should know by now, you dont want to be a 30 win team and stuck in NBA purgatory of forever mediocrity.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 24, 2020, 11:53:12 AM
Noel shouldn't start.
1. He's a limited minute guy whose production and usefulness dwindles when he stays out there too long.
2. Mitch is our future.  Best to get Mitch as many minutes as he can handle.

With that said, it doesn't really matter who starts at C, but more important who finishes.  I think Mitch is more capable of playing 30 mins per than Noel, but foul trouble will impede that some nights. 

One way I could see Nawlins starting is if he pairs well with Randle, and Thibs decides to work the bench combo of ObiT & Mitch, since they are the presumed starters down the road (like later this year or next year).  But if Thibs starts vets Randle & Father Noel, then I'd hope we're starting them with at least 2 yute. 
Elf - RJB - Knox - Randle - Noel
Smith/Franc - someone - RJB - Randle - Noel/Mitch

I think we added Noel so that we always have one defensive C to clean up and support ObiT's weak D.  Which I think is smart to help him and have a long-armed rim protector.  So we can have one of Mitch/Nerlens on the court with Randle and one with ObiT always.  I think that's the general plan and quite sensible.
Given our PF's, I think the Nerlens pick up was smart.
The rest of the off-season, I think we whiffed on.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 24, 2020, 12:09:51 PM
Maybe we get a top 3 when KP officially goes out for the season and Luka follows
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 24, 2020, 12:11:59 PM
Re:  Toppin's defense

Of course you worry.  He is a rook, hopefully more than making up for it with his scoring

I am more concerned with his rebounding.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 24, 2020, 12:15:50 PM
Re:. "and play the young guys"

As previously stated Dennis and Frank no longer qualify

I guess you mean Quickley, Spellman and Knox.

Toppin and Mitch will play plenty.  But so will Rivers, Burks, Noel and Bullock.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 24, 2020, 12:17:00 PM
This is a Thibs team.  Guys won't play because they are young.  SHOW YOUR WORTTH, period.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 24, 2020, 12:31:44 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on November 24, 2020, 11:52:59 AM
But you want the 1st pick or 2nd or 3rd, not the 8th or 14th.

RJB was the 3rd pick.  In a weak 2-man draft.
It really matters what year you're drafting.
Some years the #1 pick is a franchise player, other years it's just part of the crapshoot.

There's plenty of ways to build a team.
Draft.  Trades.  FA.  Uncovering hidden gems (MIA does great with the undrafteds).

NYK would be further along if we had simply drafted better at our given draft slot.
Knix gambled on Knox, a young raw 19 year old with a strong body.  #9 pick
4 of the 5 guys picked next all look significantly better.  Bridges x 2; Shai; Porter Jr.
Knox is still young but this will be a key year for him.
Similarly Knix gambled on 19 year old int'l Franc when three of the next 6 picks were Zach Collins, Donovan Mitchell and Bam Adebayo.
No matter where you're picking, there's talent on board and you need to identify that.

Three straight Top 9 draft picks - Franc - Knox - RJB - and Knix didn't get one shooter.  And maybe just one starter.  Not good.

Teams have been built with good later picks and smart trades.
Utah with Mitchell and Gobert and Ingles.
Sure Duncan was a #1 pick but Pony Tarker was the #30 pick and Manu a 2nd rounder.

As for BKY, I'm glad we avoided Kyrie and Durant.  Hell, we'd be trading for Harden right now ...
I like LaVert, very fun open court player.  Maybe if things start off messy in BKY, they'll look to make a deal and we can get LaVert.  Randle would fit there (sort of).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 24, 2020, 12:38:59 PM
Heh

Your disparagement of Barret paints you as a bit of a.....


moke.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 24, 2020, 12:43:39 PM
Current Knicks could be seen as Utah minus Conley
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 24, 2020, 12:45:46 PM
Franc and Jr. Smith are both just 22.
ObiT is also 22 ... 5 months older than Franc.
Jr. Smith 3 months older than Toppings.

Is RJB better than DeAndre Hunter the guy picked right after him (#4 pick)?
Hunter a better defender.  Shot league average on 3's.  Made his FT's ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 24, 2020, 12:46:02 PM
I do appreciate someone finally noting what a poor decision it was to draft Ntlikina.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 24, 2020, 12:47:24 PM
Made even worse by not having dealt him by now

(I am perfectly willing to take this back if a smart deal comes upon us for Frank+)
Title: Obi Kanoobee
Post by: chipstern on November 24, 2020, 12:47:44 PM
Thibs has already given him the words...defense...Defense...DEFENSE.

Obi averaged 20 points, 7.5 rebounds, 2.2 assists and 1.2 steals.  And 39% from trey.  FT% is around 70% so that could use some work. 

But really, Kiid, his rebounding is a concern?  Based on?  Just asking. 

Do you think if his rebounding amd defense were such a dire concern as some would have it, that Thibs would've signed off on drafting him?  Coach surely had SOME INPUT. 

Obi's spiritual signature since he had his growth spurt in HS, was to to be sold short.  His response was to work his ass off and overachieve.  Was he even offered a college scholarship? 

None of the free agents want to be here?

God bless Jerami Grant, and I dare say we made a run at him, but he preferred Detroit, where presulambly he will line up at SF with Blake at PF.  Could have done the same here, and I'd wager we would not have been put off by $20 Million x 3.  He preferred Detroit.  See you in the Garden, motherfucker. 

No free agents, no starters want to be here? 

FUCK THEM.

Obi is a Brooklyn/NYC kid who dreamed of being a Knick. 

Seem corny to you Bo? 

This motherfucker is motivated, and now he joins AC Kenny Payne's big man scrum of Robinson, Noels, Randle, Spellman and Knox.  Good competition, and an AC and head coach who will keep him accountable for defense and the team game and conditioning at the next level, where he cannot simply overpower cats like he did in collge. 

From no scholarship offers to collegiate player of the year status and crying big boy tears at being annointed a  lottery pick by his hometown motherfucking team with his mother by his side. 

Yeah, I'm going to spend many a sleepless night obsessing over Obi's shortcomings as if they were a death sentence. 

And as per Bank, good points about Philly, although I do not believe we are embarking on nor embracing a deliberate FizzTank, but rather, accepting the turtle and the hare/slow but steady wins the race reality that in lieu of free agents who turn up their nose at the Knicks, we hunker down and deveop our youth and build through the fucking draft.  Bo wants instant starters?  Dig.  Took Philly a few drafts to sort things out.  Noels and Okafor didn't quite move the needle, but Embid and Simmons sure as shit did. 

And as per Dawg, fans baffled by Knicks' moves that actually make sense and seem, to the untrained eye, as prudent, purposeful, and proactive, seemingly committed to a youth movement. 

And as per Kiid, as per youth, Frank and Dennis most DEF qualify.  They may be fighting for their lives, and are not going to be gifted bupkus, but one may anticipate them getting a chance to state their case for sure. 

Gordon Hayward? Russell Westbrook?  Victor Olidapo?  CARMELO?  Been There.  Done That.   

Sorry Bo, your concerns and critiques are legit, but your despair seems misplaced.  In any event, what did they say in Philly? 

Embrace The Process? 

Can't abide it? 

Ladies and gentlemen, your Brooklyn Nets.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 24, 2020, 12:48:22 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 24, 2020, 12:43:39 PM
Current Knicks could be seen as Utah minus Conley

The current President could be seen as Lincoln minus Everything
Title: A month out and his brain just turned to mush ...
Post by: bodiddley on November 24, 2020, 12:49:29 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 24, 2020, 12:47:44 PM
Thibs has already given him the word...defense...Defense...DEFENSE.

Obi averaged 20 points, 7.5 rebounds, 2.2 assists and 1.2 steals.  And 39% from trey.  FT% is around 70% so that could use some work. 

But really, Kiid, his rebounding is a concern?  Based on?  Just asking. 

Do you think if his rebounding amd defense were such a dire concern as some would have it, that Thibs would've signed off on drafting him?  Coach surely had SOME INPUT. 

Obi's spiritual signature since he had his growth spurt in HS, was to to be sold short.  His response was to work his ass off and overachieve.  Was he even offered a college scholarship? 

None of the free agents want to be here?

God bless Jerami Grant, and I dare say we made a run at him, but he preferred Detroit, where presulambly he will line up at SF with Blake at PF.  Could have done the same here, and I'd wager we would not have been put off by $20 Million x 3.  He preferred Detroit.  See you in the Garden, motherfucker. 

No free agents, no starters want to be here? 

FUCK THEM.

Obi is a Brooklyn/NYC kid who dreamed of being a Knick. 

Seem corny to you Bo? 

This motherfucker is motivated, and now he joins AC Kenny Payne's big man scrum of Robinson, Noels, Randle, Spellman and Knox.  Good competition, and an AC and head coach who will keep him accountable for defense and the team game and conditioning at the next level, where he cannot simply overpower cats like he did in collge. 

From no scholarship offers to collegiate player of the year status and crying big boy tears at being annointed a  lottery pick by his hometown motherfucking team with his mother by his side. 

Yeah, I'm going to spend many a sleepless night obsessing over Obi's shortcomings as if they were a death sentence. 

And as per Bank, good points about Philly, although I do not believe we are embarking on nor embracing a deliberate FizzTank, but rather, accepting the turtle and the hare/slow but steady wins the race reality that in lieu of free agents who turn up their nose at the Knicks, we hunker down and deveop our youth and build through the fucking draft.  Bo wants instant starters?  Dig.  Took Philly a few drafts to sort things out.  Noels and Okafor didn't quite move the needle, but Embid and Simmons sure as shit did. 

And as per Dawg, fans baffled by Knicks' moves that actually make sense and seem, to the untrained eye, as prudent, purposeful, and proactive, seemingly committed to a youth movement. 

And as per Kiid, as per youth, Frank and Dennis most DEF qualify.  They may be fighting for their lives, and are not going to be gifted bupkus, but one may anticipate them getting a chance to state their case for sure. 

Gordon Hayward? Russell Westbrook?  Victor Olidapo?  CARMELO?  Been There.  Done That.   

Sorry Bo, your concerns and critiques are legit, but your despair seems misplaced.  In any event, what did they say in Philly? 

Embrace The Process? 

Can't abide it? 

Ladies and gentlemen, your Brooklyn Nets.

Chip's completely lost it before the season even started . . .
Title: Re: Obi Kanoobee
Post by: chipstern on November 24, 2020, 12:51:06 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 24, 2020, 12:49:29 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 24, 2020, 12:47:44 PM
Thibs has already given him the word...defense...Defense...DEFENSE.

Obi averaged 20 points, 7.5 rebounds, 2.2 assists and 1.2 steals.  And 39% from trey.  FT% is around 70% so that could use some work. 

But really, Kiid, his rebounding is a concern?  Based on?  Just asking. 

Do you think if his rebounding amd defense were such a dire concern as some would have it, that Thibs would've signed off on drafting him?  Coach surely had SOME INPUT. 

Obi's spiritual signature since he had his growth spurt in HS, was to to be sold short.  His response was to work his ass off and overachieve.  Was he even offered a college scholarship? 

None of the free agents want to be here?

God bless Jerami Grant, and I dare say we made a run at him, but he preferred Detroit, where presulambly he will line up at SF with Blake at PF.  Could have done the same here, and I'd wager we would not have been put off by $20 Million x 3.  He preferred Detroit.  See you in the Garden, motherfucker. 

No free agents, no starters want to be here? 

FUCK THEM.

Obi is a Brooklyn/NYC kid who dreamed of being a Knick. 

Seem corny to you Bo? 

This motherfucker is motivated, and now he joins AC Kenny Payne's big man scrum of Robinson, Noels, Randle, Spellman and Knox.  Good competition, and an AC and head coach who will keep him accountable for defense and the team game and conditioning at the next level, where he cannot simply overpower cats like he did in collge. 

From no scholarship offers to collegiate player of the year status and crying big boy tears at being annointed a  lottery pick by his hometown motherfucking team with his mother by his side. 

Yeah, I'm going to spend many a sleepless night obsessing over Obi's shortcomings as if they were a death sentence. 

And as per Bank, good points about Philly, although I do not believe we are embarking on nor embracing a deliberate FizzTank, but rather, accepting the turtle and the hare/slow but steady wins the race reality that in lieu of free agents who turn up their nose at the Knicks, we hunker down and deveop our youth and build through the fucking draft.  Bo wants instant starters?  Dig.  Took Philly a few drafts to sort things out.  Noels and Okafor didn't quite move the needle, but Embid and Simmons sure as shit did. 

And as per Dawg, fans baffled by Knicks' moves that actually make sense and seem, to the untrained eye, as prudent, purposeful, and proactive, seemingly committed to a youth movement. 

And as per Kiid, as per youth, Frank and Dennis most DEF qualify.  They may be fighting for their lives, and are not going to be gifted bupkus, but one may anticipate them getting a chance to state their case for sure. 

Gordon Hayward? Russell Westbrook?  Victor Olidapo?  CARMELO?  Been There.  Done That.   

Sorry Bo, your concerns and critiques are legit, but your despair seems misplaced.  In any event, what did they say in Philly? 

Embrace The Process? 

Can't abide it? 

Ladies and gentlemen, your Brooklyn Nets.

Chip's completely lost it before the season even started . . .

SO IT SEEMS. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 24, 2020, 12:53:26 PM
Trust me - we did not offer 3-60 to J Grant
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 24, 2020, 12:59:24 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 24, 2020, 12:45:46 PM


Is RJB better than DeAndre Hunter the guy picked right after him (#4 pick)?
Hunter a better defender.  Shot league average on 3's.  Made his FT's ...


Heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 24, 2020, 01:00:10 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 24, 2020, 12:38:59 PM
Your disparagement of Barret paints you as a bit of a.....
moke.

Says the moke who was fond of quoting Trump in his taglines ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 24, 2020, 01:00:29 PM
We'd be better off having drafted Hunter, Bo?

Stopppp..
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on November 24, 2020, 01:02:19 PM
Quote
And as per Bank, good points about Philly, although I do not believe we are embarking on nor embracing a deliberate FizzTank, but rather, accepting the turtle and the hare/slow but steady wins the race reality that in lieu of free agents who turn up their nose at the Knicks, we hunker down and deveop our youth and build through the fucking draft.  Bo wants instant starters?  Dig.  Took Philly a few drafts to sort things out.  Noels and Okafor didn't quite move the needle, but Embid and Simmons sure as shit did.

chip-I'm not advocating tanking, but rather I want to see mostly young guys who play hard through adversity. But the reality is playing mostly young home grown guys in a rebuild will not yield a lot of wins. and its hit or miss, thats why stockpiling picks is a good thing. And the proess if you're lucky might take 3-5 years. And then once you regain credibility as a franchise, then free-agents start kicking your tires again.  What you want to avoid is another decade or longer of being a 30-40 win team stuck in NBA purgatory. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 24, 2020, 01:04:19 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on November 24, 2020, 01:02:19 PM
Quote
And as per Bank, good points about Philly, although I do not believe we are embarking on nor embracing a deliberate FizzTank, but rather, accepting the turtle and the hare/slow but steady wins the race reality that in lieu of free agents who turn up their nose at the Knicks, we hunker down and deveop our youth and build through the fucking draft.  Bo wants instant starters?  Dig.  Took Philly a few drafts to sort things out.  Noels and Okafor didn't quite move the needle, but Embid and Simmons sure as shit did.

chip-I'm not advocating tanking, but rather I want to see mostly young guys who play hard through adversity. But the reality is playing mostly young home grown guys in a rebuild will not yield a lot of wins. and its hit or miss, thats why stockpiling picks is a good thing. And the proess if you're lucky might take 3-5 years. And then once you regain credibility as a franchise, then free-agents start kicking your tires again.  What you want to avoid is another decade or longer of being a 30-40 win team stuck in NBA purgatory.

Understood. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 24, 2020, 01:10:47 PM
Still awaiting a big Celtics move

"Run it back" won't cut it.
Title: Dennis Smith & Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf
Post by: chipstern on November 24, 2020, 01:15:34 PM
How Dennis Smith Jr. is fixing his jumper

https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/ny-dennis-smith-jr-mahmoud-abdul-rauf-20201124-svj76vrekvc25nnq7iuw44nwga-story.html (https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/ny-dennis-smith-jr-mahmoud-abdul-rauf-20201124-svj76vrekvc25nnq7iuw44nwga-story.html)

Pulling For The Kid. 

Rauf has no official title, but for all intents and purposes, he is the league’s newest Shot Doctor. He has worked with Markelle Fultz, Victor Oladipo, DJ Augustin, Jerian Grant, Nets guard Spencer Dinwiddie and Josh Smith. Of those, he singled out Dinwiddie as a hard worker, and Fultz as someone he expects to take strides.

We shall see.  Expect he will get every opportunity to make the case for himself. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 24, 2020, 01:18:26 PM
Atkinson would have been a developmental coach.
Thibs more of a Win Now feller.
We'll see how that gets resolved with this not so imposing roster of vets and yute.

Is RJB better than Hunter?
Hunter seems on his way to being a legit 3&D wing.
I'm not even sure which position RJB is best at.
One thing is RJB is 2.5 years younger.
DeA Hunt turns 23 next week.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 24, 2020, 01:23:34 PM
Heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 24, 2020, 02:12:57 PM
We’ll see you in 2021: The Knicks punt free agency again (https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/ny-knicks-nba-free-agency-20201121-q7e7k6lg5za4xlpm7t324rlube-story.html)
Title: Punt Return
Post by: chipstern on November 24, 2020, 02:23:36 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 24, 2020, 02:12:57 PM
We’ll see you in 2021: The Knicks punt free agency again (https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/ny-knicks-nba-free-agency-20201121-q7e7k6lg5za4xlpm7t324rlube-story.html)

Again...ONCE Again.

Whom should we have signed?  Pursued? 

Hmmmmm?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 24, 2020, 02:45:33 PM
lol, I think he already told you, his needle mover — D.J. Augustin at 5 years $72 mil


*** I don't know why his first choice wasn't FVV who surely would have come if Rose had just sent him a Walmart gift basket of bath essentials
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 24, 2020, 02:52:11 PM
I've gone through it before, more than once. 
Part of my problem is the draft pick.

Draft Avdija - starting SF
Sign Wood as FA (he went for $13M to a different crappy team)

Toss a big offer at FVV.  Van Fred signed for 4/$85M.
Maybe for 4/$95 and a chance to run his own team we get him.
(start him at $25M dropping $1M per year; a heap more than the $19M or so he's gonna start at for TOR).  Extra $10M total, but an extra $5 or $6M upfront, first year.

FVV - RJB - Avdija - Randle/Wood - Mitch
That's an interesting team.
Much better than what we did.
If we had that in place, it could be tempting for FVV along with the extra moolah.

If you don't get FA FVV:

I'd rather Rondo than Elf, or swing some deal for Rubio, he got shuffled around plenty.  PG was always going to be the tough get.  Elf at leats affords some continuity, but he'd likely be my Plan D.

And then another option would be to scrap Woods and drop the $18M per year offer ATL did for Bogdan.  Sweet shooter with a pretty good handle.  RJB/Bogdan/Avdija would be a nice set of wings.  Imagine having quality wings.  What a concept.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 24, 2020, 02:53:25 PM
lol lol
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 24, 2020, 02:54:02 PM
walmart gift basket, you're forgetting the walmart gift basket
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 24, 2020, 02:54:34 PM
no way FVV comes without the walmart gift basket
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 24, 2020, 02:55:19 PM
damn shame Leon didn't see that plan before he got all bizzy
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 24, 2020, 02:56:25 PM
but even Leon would have needed a walmart gift basket to pull it off
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 24, 2020, 02:59:23 PM
Who knows what dumb alternative world Les lives in.
But it seems to be one in which he endlessly mocks people for dumb ish he misattributes to them. 

Try not to constantly embarrass yourself ....
Chip mentioned DJ Augustine; not a player I'd considered at all.

An extra $10M (an extra $6M upfront) and his own team to run -- FVV certainly would have had to think about it.  Imo, adding Avdija would have presented a more balanced, appealing roster.
Title: Dawg Pounding
Post by: chipstern on November 24, 2020, 03:00:46 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on November 24, 2020, 02:45:33 PM
lol, I think he already told you, his needle mover — D.J. Augustin at 5 years $72 mil


*** I don't know why his first choice wasn't FVV who surely would have come if Rose had just sent him a Walmart gift basket of bath essentials

Hey, I was campaigning for DJ AUGUSTIN. 

Apparently he prefered to play for an NBA Finals Team.

Go figure. 

Yup.  Free Agency Is The Ideal Way For The Knicks To Move The Needle. 

PS: I am rooting hard for Dennis Smith. I remember how well he played for us in the Spring of 2019, right after the trade.  But, hey, pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.  I'm MELTING.  Apparently I've lost it.  COMPETITION Folks.  Rose and Perrin and Thibs brought on Jared Harper, Austin Rivers, Elfrid Payton and Immaneul Quickley to put the fire to Dennis and Frank in an open casting call for Point Guard Arias in the center ring of the Knicks Circus at the world's greatest arena. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 24, 2020, 03:01:10 PM
and then, after FVV gets his gift basket, AD decides to come to the Knicks
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 24, 2020, 03:01:47 PM
and then Lebron comes to the Knicks
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 24, 2020, 03:02:14 PM
all because Leon listened to Bo and sent that walmart gift basket
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 24, 2020, 03:02:49 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on November 24, 2020, 02:54:34 PM
no way FVV comes without the walmart gift basket

heh

Bo - to have any credibilty whatsoever, should build it given AVDIJA as the #8 pick - and without Fred Van Vleet.

Now - what to do with 27 and 33......

And what trades to offer/ free agents to sign (and amount)

We have time to go through this if he'd like.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 24, 2020, 03:04:01 PM
Chip - Quickley and Rivers aren't point guards.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 24, 2020, 03:04:54 PM
and then Luka Doncic forces a trade to the Knicks all because Leon listened to Bo and sent that Walmart gift basket, we do have to give up FVV however, who broke into tears because he had ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS wanted to be KNICK.

The NYFD was called to tear the jersey off him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 24, 2020, 03:08:12 PM
I would have steered far clear of Hayward.
I wasn't even sure I'd do $20M per for him.
But really he doesn't make too much sense for these Knix.

I like Jerami Grant but he's more scrappy and willing than highly talented.
I had touted him as a possible FA get, but he showed out in the playoffs and became too pricey, imo.  Nice piece, but at $20M?  $14M would have been good.

CP3 or Westbrook?
Not the kind of move I'd normally consider, but you squint and could see the value/benefits.
CP3 as a leader and mentor and culture setter.
Westbrook would be entertaining to watch, especially with RJB and Toppings as running mates.
Still seems like typical Knick move, get a big name late in his career without a good enough supporting cast.  Randle, Frank & Knox for Westbrook.  Er ...
I could do it (I think).

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 24, 2020, 03:47:43 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 24, 2020, 03:04:01 PM
Chip - Quickley and Rivers aren't point guards.

COMBO GUARDS
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 24, 2020, 03:49:43 PM
Bullock + Dallas 2023 + a 2023 2nd rounder for Lonzo Ball?

Pels are over loaded at PG still and need shooting and wing defenders...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 24, 2020, 03:51:02 PM
yep

Big change to next year's finances, of course - as would Wall.


Who do you suppose that takes us out of for '21-'22 tht we have our eye on?  Just saying....well, lots of folks - is fine.   

RUSS for now AND then or a choice of "lots of folks", if they wil come, for just then (not this year).

Many teams' conundrum, truly.  But Knicks insistence on one year plus options deals would lead you to believe we want to keep that "lots of folks" option wide open.

Anyway - back to Avdija

Lets build it with Deni and Russ

So you have

Westbrook
Barrett
Avdija
4?
Robinson

as starters

Dennis, Bullock (I assume), Knox, Brazdekis, the 27 and the 33 pick

then scraps (Harper, Pinson, etc)


Now what?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 24, 2020, 03:51:52 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 24, 2020, 03:47:43 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 24, 2020, 03:04:01 PM
Chip - Quickley and Rivers aren't point guards.

COMBO GUARDS

Let me know when one of them is out there without Dennis, Frank or Elf.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 24, 2020, 04:03:13 PM
If the Pels won’t play, the Hornets might want to simply shed some salary. They have Rozier (expensive), Ball, Graham, and the Martin brother who can pass (along with the other one).

Without Rozier, the Hohos can live with Graham and Martin if Ball struggles out the gate.

Rozier for Dallas’ 2023 + a 2023 2nd rounder.

Brings us right to the cap.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 24, 2020, 04:08:42 PM
I can agree with BO on Avidja over Toppin.  Toppin was my 3rd choice  (1.TyH 2. Avidja 3. Toppin 4. Vassell)

But then you can't assume FVV is leaving a contender for the chance to play with Avidja and run the Knicks.   That's a bridge too far.

You can't assume you're going to get Christian Wood because now you have FVV who is here because you have Avidja.  That's a bridge to outer space.

Oh and Gallinari sees all that and wants back in too.

Fantasyland.


Avidja vs. Toppin will be something to debate for years to come.   But that's it.   We draft Avidja and its likely the same exact team just with Avidja not Obi.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 24, 2020, 04:26:21 PM
Kam, you, like so many others here, fully underestimate the power of THIS:


https://www.walmart.com/ip/Draizee-Heel-Shoe-Spa-Gift-Set-Rose-Scented-Bath-Essentials-Basket-With-Shower-Gel-Bubble-Bath-Body-Butter-Lotion-And-Soft-EVA-Puff-Luxurious-Home-Re/504545293 (https://www.walmart.com/ip/Draizee-Heel-Shoe-Spa-Gift-Set-Rose-Scented-Bath-Essentials-Basket-With-Shower-Gel-Bubble-Bath-Body-Butter-Lotion-And-Soft-EVA-Puff-Luxurious-Home-Re/504545293)


Title: A shocker from the register!!!!!
Post by: lesterluv on November 24, 2020, 04:45:55 PM
https://www.theraleighregister.com/fvvtheknickswere1choiceuntilobipick.html (https://www.theraleighregister.com/fvvtheknickswere1choiceuntilobipick.html)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 24, 2020, 05:05:00 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 24, 2020, 03:49:43 PM
Bullock + Dallas 2023 + a 2023 2nd rounder for Lonzo Ball?

Pels are over loaded at PG still and need shooting and wing defenders...

Don't Bogart That Pax 3 My Brother 

(https://media0.giphy.com/media/TrYXjFjgam6A0/200.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 24, 2020, 05:06:31 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 24, 2020, 03:08:12 PM
I would have steered far clear of Hayward.
I wasn't even sure I'd do $20M per for him.
But really he doesn't make too much sense for these Knix.

I like Jerami Grant but he's more scrappy and willing than highly talented.
I had touted him as a possible FA get, but he showed out in the playoffs and became too pricey, imo.  Nice piece, but at $20M?  $14M would have been good.

CP3 or Westbrook?
Not the kind of move I'd normally consider, but you squint and could see the value/benefits.
CP3 as a leader and mentor and culture setter.
Westbrook would be entertaining to watch, especially with RJB and Toppings as running mates.
Still seems like typical Knick move, get a big name late in his career without a good enough supporting cast.  Randle, Frank & Knox for Westbrook.  Er ...
I could do it (I think).

Please. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 24, 2020, 05:37:16 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 24, 2020, 05:05:00 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 24, 2020, 03:49:43 PM
Bullock + Dallas 2023 + a 2023 2nd rounder for Lonzo Ball?

Pels are over loaded at PG still and need shooting and wing defenders...

Don't Bogart That Pax 3 My Brother 

(https://media0.giphy.com/media/TrYXjFjgam6A0/200.gif)

There’s no name yet for what I’m bogarting (pandemic rules: puff, puff, give is currently antisocial behavior), but it sure tastes good and does the trick.

Let’s leave Lonzo aside.

Rozier for DSJ and a 2023 2nd rounder. Saves them money, builds their draft stock, and brings a maturing DSJ back home to NC. Saves them from getting a headache putting Terry behind Ball.

Personally I think we’re set at PG already.

However, a Rozier Frank Payton platoon would be a buzzsaw all damn game for opposing PGs. You know Thibs would love Rozier.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 24, 2020, 06:08:46 PM
We’ve got a camp spot left open. We should sign Dedmon who’s officially free again.

We’d start with

Mitch Noel Dedmon
Randle Toppin Spellman
Barrett Knox Bullock Iggy
Burks Quickley Rivers Evans
Frank Payton DSJ

With Powell, Pinson, and Harper on minor league deals

We’d have to jettison a guard and a wing before the season started. Evans and Iggy would make the most sense though it might turn out differently in camp.

Adding Dedmon would be in line with the small bore moves we’ve been making, especially since he’s being paid already by Detroit. We don’t have to mess with any owners to get it done, only the player and his agent.

DD is neither CAA nor KU, so this is probably still not going to happen.
Title: More Tangible Fantasy
Post by: chipstern on November 24, 2020, 06:15:27 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 24, 2020, 05:37:16 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 24, 2020, 05:05:00 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 24, 2020, 03:49:43 PM
Bullock + Dallas 2023 + a 2023 2nd rounder for Lonzo Ball?

Pels are over loaded at PG still and need shooting and wing defenders...

Don't Bogart That Pax 3 My Brother 

(https://media0.giphy.com/media/TrYXjFjgam6A0/200.gif)

There’s no name yet for what I’m bogarting (pandemic rules: puff, puff, give is currently antisocial behavior), but it sure tastes good and does the trick.

Let’s leave Lonzo aside.

Rozier for DSJ and a 2023 2nd rounder. Saves them money, builds their draft stock, and brings a maturing DSJ back home to NC. Saves them from getting a headache putting Terry behind Ball.

Personally I think we’re set at PG already.

However, a Rozier Frank Payton platoon would be a buzzsaw all damn game for opposing PGs. You know Thibs would love Rozier.

I believe that the Knicks are committed to givng Dennis and Frank an opportunity to compete.

A more rational fantasy than BoD's fevered filligres. 

Still, why would Charlotte even consider such a one sided deal?

In his first season for the Hornets, Rozier sank 172-403 threes.  That's a .407% clip.

He only went to the FT line 190 times, but he canned 166, which sums out to an imposing .874%

So he basically he gave Charlotte 18-4-4-1 in in 34 minutes. 

You honestly think they would sell his for salvage prices, just to save the $19 and & $18 he is due, to defray costs of Hayward's mega contract?  Didn't they just waive/stretch Batum? 

Ball, Graham, Rozier.  Terry can play on or off the ball.  Why not play them together for stretches? 

I believe Malik Monk would be the odd man out. 

I like Rozier.  And his contract is not insane. 

Still, I don't think your offer would trump the Clippers for assets or sheer desperation.  They cannot go into the season with Beverly as their main rudder. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 24, 2020, 06:34:34 PM
What would the Clippers offer? What do they have they can move?

Honestly I liked Ball to Charlotte because Rozier compliments him so well in the backcourt defending the point and spotting up and as a secondary creator. Likely Rozier stays put and starts with Ball putting Graham in a Lou Will type role off the bench.

Adding Dedmon would cost us no assets and would shore up a thin front court with a true center with experience who is a functional threat to stretch the floor.
Title: Woulda Coulda Shoulda
Post by: chipstern on November 24, 2020, 06:46:33 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 24, 2020, 06:34:34 PM
What would the Clippers offer? What do they have they can move?

Honestly I liked Ball to Charlotte because Rozier compliments him so well in the backcourt defending the point and spotting up and as a secondary creator. Likely Rozier stays put and starts with Ball putting Graham in a Lou Will type role off the bench.

Adding Dedmon would cost us no assets and would shore up a thin front court with a true center with experience who is a functional threat to stretch the floor.

Not sure I am feeling your passion for the likes of Kaminsky and Dedmon. 

I am fine with Robinson and Noels. 

Last year it was Gibson and Robinson with Portis. 

Noels and Robinson with Spellman and Randle sems like plenty of coverage, and opens up minutes at PF for Toppin. 

As for our Brother BoD, be interesting to see some "we need starters" scenarios that reflect WHO WE ACTUALLY DRAFTED, and not some fanciful Alternate WouldaCaouldaShoulda Universe. 

HEY, I was a Haliburton enthusiast.  To me he checked off so many of the Knicks' boxes. 

The Knicks drafted Toppin and Quickley. 

GET

OVER

IT

PEOPLE

Or get a Walmart Gift Card for a basket of broken dreams. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 24, 2020, 07:00:27 PM
Kaminsky was actually me confusing him with Olynyk who would help us. Frank the Kam doesn’t actually have the physicality I’m looking for.

If Robinson or Noel go down at some point, we’re in trouble.

Dedmon has the full toolbox to step in for either of them and would be the most reliable and proven shooter among our bigs.

Real rim protection that legitimately allows a 5 out look is nothing to sneeze at, especially on the cheaps.

If we’re trying to open driving lanes for guards and wings, Dedmon helps with that along with being pretty good at doing the other things you want your centers to do.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 24, 2020, 07:11:22 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 24, 2020, 07:00:27 PM
Kaminsky was actually me confusing him with Olynyk who would help us. Frank the Kam doesn’t actually have the physicality I’m looking for.

If Robinson or Noel go down at some point, we’re in trouble.

Dedmon has the full toolbox to step in for either of them and would be the most reliable and proven shooter among our bigs.

Real rim protection that legitimately allows a 5 out look is nothing to sneeze at, especially on the cheaps.

If we’re trying to open driving lanes for guards and wings, Dedmon helps with that along with being pretty good at doing the other things you want your centers to do.

Interesting Argument. 

Not sure I see the Knicks going in this direction. 

Mitch Noel Dedmon
Randle Toppin Spellman
Barrett Knox Bullock Iggy
Burks Quickley Rivers Evans
Frank Payton DSJ

Iggy can launch threes and create his own shot, least ways, that was his G League Journey last season.

Would a player such as Dedmond be satisifed with spot minutes? 

I'd rather develop Mitchell. 

If he and Nerlens get into foul trouble, well, Randle and Spellman need to man up. 

In any event, Dedmon has a skill set.  So does Whiteside. 

Doubt they are on our radar.  Committed to Mitchell and Nerlens. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 24, 2020, 07:24:52 PM
Dedmon is 31 and has never started more than half a season at any point in his career. I don’t think he’s thinking about going anywhere to be the man, unless it’s overseas.

He does give you 6 points, 6 boards, and a block in 18 minutes, with an EFG north of .550, over his career. He does this bringing craftiness and intensity without clogging the lane. Will he make mistakes? Yes. But he knows what the hell he is doing.

Here’s a small sample through my rosy colored glasses...

http://youtu.be/31ZgYSdl7RM (http://youtu.be/31ZgYSdl7RM)

Keep Iggy and move Evans and DSJ.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 24, 2020, 07:25:58 PM
Charlotte is set and with no need to save that cash.

Rozier had a good year.  Can certainly play as a 4-some (3 on court at a time) with Graham, Gordon and EllyMel.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 24, 2020, 07:34:19 PM
Wayne Ellington to Detroit which now has 29 players
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 24, 2020, 07:38:13 PM
I hear the Hohos need to shed salary to get Hayward in under the cap, or else it needs to become a sign and trade of some sort.

Cody Zeller and one of the Martins (just under 17 mil) for Bullock & Evans (just under 7 mil). Then they can sign Dedmon for a song and absorb Hayward and be “set”.

Mitch Noel Zeller
Randle Toppin Spellman
Barrett Knox Iggy
Burks Quickley Martin
Frank Payton Rivers DSJ

Zeller doesn’t stretch, but he does bang and comes off the books after this year.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 24, 2020, 08:17:31 PM
I hear the Hohos need to shed salary to get Hayward in under the cap, or else it needs to become a sign and trade of some sort.
Incorrect - though CHA still can if they wish to shed a salary - and if BOS wants one of their players (Zeller and Biyombo had been mentioned)

Stretching Batum took care of the money earlier on.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 24, 2020, 08:24:50 PM
Jordan Bell's a pretty good player

Just became available
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 25, 2020, 12:53:20 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 24, 2020, 08:17:31 PM
I hear the Hohos need to shed salary to get Hayward in under the cap, or else it needs to become a sign and trade of some sort.
Incorrect - though CHA still can if they wish to shed a salary - and if BOS wants one of their players (Zeller and Biyombo had been mentioned)

Stretching Batum took care of the money earlier on.

Hadn’t heard they stretched Batum. Makes sense though.


Sign Dedmon, start trimming down to 15.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 25, 2020, 01:43:51 AM
Well, there's a reason that ObiT, Avdija and TyHalibut were all considered Top 5 at one time and all dropped to the second half of the lottery. 
Talent + Warts.

Toppin can score, run the floor, and has a credible 3-point shot.
So a stretch 4 who can dunk on you.  Inside-out scoring from your Big is valuable.

BUT he's also the kind of guy who has his own poor D video clips.
Cannot guard the perimeter, gets lost in PnR's, doesn't rim protect, a bit undersized, gonna give up as much as he gets.  Looks to have only one positional in this switchy multi-task NBA.  And at 22 might be close to his ceiling, start off quite solid and plateau.

Avdija excelled in IL League, an 18 year old MVP, father an ex-Serb player.  Well-developed body.  Very good feel for the game, all-around player. 

BUT while his shooting form looks good, results were somewhat underwhelming.
Had much lower numbers in Euroleague play.   Some question about his ability to keep up on D against NBA wings.  Quite young and played in a weak league = some question marks.

TyH nice combo guard with a good outside shot and solid handle.  Smooth fluid athlete.  Competes.

BUT shooting form a bit odd, release a little slow, which might hamper hos 3-point shooting.  A little light in the keyster so might get bullied some on D. 
 
There was some weird hype that he had great passing vision and was an excellent defender.  And then that came back to reality the last week pre-draft.

I probably should add Vassell who projects as a long-armed 3&D wing, the type that fits real well in the modern NBA.  Not a flashy pick, but has range and supposed to be an octopus on D.  I could have been quite happy trading down for him or just picking him 8th outright.  Likely a better NBA player than 3-5 guys that went ahead of him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 25, 2020, 02:33:53 AM
A thought I've had for weeks:
I wonder if the Knix use their advantages.
With the front office turnover and everyone jockeying for positions and power (and of course Dolanbucks), we probably don't leverage institutional synergies.

Amare owns a team in Israel and has played there recently.  Amare could have helped us scout out Deni A.  Amare has contacts out there who could have helped.  I assume Knix didn't avail themselves of this potential insight.

I remember when Bynum was drafted 10th and we took Frye 8th.
Bynum was playing in Metuchen NJ, where Marvin Webster was living.
Seemed Knix should have reached out and had him scout Bynum and get to know the family and situation.   Frye was a solid pick -- oddly billed as a defender when he was drafted -- but Bynum was an all-star level player.  Also a bit immature, whereas Frye was Mr. Solid Citizen.
Btw, that 2005 draft cratered badly right after Bynum at #10.
The only real gem was Danny Granger who TOR was said to be very high on and then passed on twice.  Concerns about his knees dropped him to #17.  But he was easily better than everyone from 11-16, including Joey Graham Cracker taken by TOR at 16.  Knix did well scoping up Nate and David Lee.  Lee the 30th pick probably better than everyone below Bynum (10th pick), except for Granger.

Ah, for those long ago days when the Knix drafted well . . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 25, 2020, 03:43:07 AM
I think that was an Isiah Thomas draft. I’m glad those days are long gone.

Both Frye and Lee got chips with other teams and N8 was a champ in the Venezuelan league not long after.

This group has a chance to be better than they seem on paper. I think we should give this iteration of Knickerbockers a chance to impress before we start shitting on them too heavily.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 25, 2020, 05:23:21 AM
I left out Jarrett Jack, a fave of mine who was picked one slot after N8.
Jack had a very solid career, and for a combo guard who wasn't particularly athletic had a knack for stealing starting PG jobs away from incumbents, just ask Telfair, TJ Ford, Calderon.  Became a starter in NJ and NO after Chris Paul & Deron left respectively.

Not that anybody really wanted Jack as their starting PG, but he was such a useful player that he often forced the issue, and as a role player started nearly half his career.

I've had to transfer my affections to The Frog, Malcolm Brogdon who similarly isn't a great athlete but just a damn smart player.  I would have chucked money at the Frog a few years back.  A winner.

Before Jack, my NBA crush was Brandon Roy.  Just 36, but retired a decade go, as his knees only lasted 4.5 seasons.  Done at 26.  A 20 / 5 / 5 guy his three main years.  With smart heady D.
Before that I was a big Shawn Marion and Bonzi Wells fan. 
Marion just a killer defender and excellent boarder.  Also one of the great nicknames.  Should make the Hall o'Fame.  Helped usher in smallball and positionless hoops. 

Bonzi had a lot of talent and didn't always use his head wisely.
Could blow by bigger players, over-power smaller guys.
Kind of an indifferent defender which irked me.
Didn't get the most out of his talent, by not focusing enough and being a bit sloppy with the ball. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 25, 2020, 10:32:01 AM
We’ve got a camp spot left open. We should sign Dedmon who’s officially free again.


Sure.

Same idea I had with Whiteside.

(Looks like Whiteside is Sacramento-bound - giving me another team to get interested in)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 25, 2020, 10:37:50 AM
If Kings were in the East.......


D Fox
Hield
Haliburton
Joseph
--------
Parker
Barnes
Bjelica
Bagley
----------
Len
Holmes
Ferrell
Brewer
-----------
- waiting on Bogey decision.......should take sign and trade players from Hawks/other, a wing if possible.
Could Knicks get in on that as a third team?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 25, 2020, 10:38:28 AM
Wait....

Bogey decision was last night, right?

What happened?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 25, 2020, 10:42:01 AM
Adrian Wojnarowski: Kings front office labored over the decision, but kept coming back to new GM Monte McNair’s plan to maintain roster flexibility. Keeping Bogdanovic would’ve severely limited the organization’s ability to continue reshaping the team around its young core of Fox, Bagley and Hield


Okay

So add Whiteside for the one year, maintaining flexibility for '21-'22 - like most other teams.

Next year's summer signing season will be sick.

Looks like Haliburton competes with Corey Joseph for time though they could play 3 guards as well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 25, 2020, 10:53:06 AM
I believe that the Knicks are committed to givng Dennis and Frank an opportunity to compete.


Pretty obvious with Payton return that there IS NO PLAN to play Ntlikina at point guard

Frank is a situational guard right now.  2-3 minutes here and there - but will also get some DNPs - and I am sure a game or 2 due to other G availability that he ticks over 20 minutes.

Accept it already.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 25, 2020, 10:55:52 AM
Amare owns a team in Israel and has played there recently.  Amare could have helped us scout out Deni A.  Amare has contacts out there who could have helped.  I assume Knix didn't avail themselves of this potential insight.


I know its slow in terms of what to post - but do you really think Avdija was underscouted and that is why we went with Toppin?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 25, 2020, 10:59:28 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 25, 2020, 10:53:06 AM
I believe that the Knicks are committed to givng Dennis and Frank an opportunity to compete.


Pretty obvious with Payton return that there IS NO PLAN to play Ntlikina at point guard

Frank is a situational guard right now.  2-3 minutes here and there - but will also get some DNPs - and I am sure a game or 2 due to other G availability that he ticks over 20 minutes.

Accept it already.

We shall see. 

Payton's FT and Outside shooting limitations notwithstanding, was often a very effective rudder last season and often a good defensive presence.

However....you ASSUME he is being slotted in as the starting PG?

That's not how THIBS works, and he is on record as being a Dennis Smith fan going back a few years, and a player with Frank's defensive skills will find minutes at the 2-3 & 1. 

Hell, the Knicks have plenty of competition for RJ Barrett at the 2 & 3, what with Burks, Bullock, Rivers and Quickley, let alone Brazdeikis and Knox, if we project them to the 3 & 4.  And 5'11" PG 2-Way Player Jared Harper [who supplanted Kadeem Allen]will get a look, let alone 6'5" SG 2-Way Theo Pinson [who supplanted Alonzo Trier], whose shooting stats don't exactly jump out abd engage you, to put it mildly, though .895 FT% give one pause. 

PS: Pinson's four year stats at UNC...godawful from 3...steady improvement in FT percentages, and 10-6.5-5-1 as a senior.  Has a spot in Leon Rose's heart for reasons not altogether clear.  Supposed to be a really good locker room guy, which should serve him well in Westchester. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 25, 2020, 11:00:34 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 25, 2020, 10:55:52 AM
Amare owns a team in Israel and has played there recently.  Amare could have helped us scout out Deni A.  Amare has contacts out there who could have helped.  I assume Knix didn't avail themselves of this potential insight.


I know its slow in terms of what to post - but do you really think Avdija was underscouted and that is why we went with Toppin?

Of course not.  Speaking only for myself, and recalling Amare quotes going back months. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 25, 2020, 11:02:04 AM
In any event, Dedmon has a skill set.  So does Whiteside.

Doubt they are on our radar.  Committed to Mitchell and Nerlens.

One more big

I like Kaminsky as a guy who can push Toppin.  Shooting contests before/after practice might be must see (and yeah, I know Omari can fill it from deep as well).

But of course I prefer Whiteside, who may be looking for more than the 1-year deal we are floating to everyone.

Taj hasnt signed, right?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 25, 2020, 11:05:41 AM
However....you ASSUME he is being slotted in as the starting PG?

No.  Smith still has a shot - and I still hold out that there may be a deal.

The Thibs teams other than with Derrick Rose - who were his starting PGs?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 25, 2020, 11:10:35 AM
Rubio

Then Teague

Then Teague/Rose

You have to play OFFENSE to run a Thibs team
Title: MYLES POWELL, Undrafted 6'2" Scoring G Out Of Seton Hall
Post by: chipstern on November 25, 2020, 11:11:37 AM
Knicks signed Myles Powell to an Exhibit 10 Contract.  He averaged 21ppg as a Seton Hall Senior. 

https://theknickswall.com/undrafted-story-getting-know-new-knicks-guard-myles-powell/ (https://theknickswall.com/undrafted-story-getting-know-new-knicks-guard-myles-powell/)

Four Year College Stats

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/myles-powell-1.html (https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/myles-powell-1.html)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 25, 2020, 11:13:11 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 25, 2020, 11:10:35 AM
Rubio

Then Teague

Then Teague/Rose

You have to play OFFENSE to run a Thibs team

Which is theoretically the purview of DENNIS SMITH, as opposed to Payton or Ntilikina. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 25, 2020, 11:18:28 AM
Smith has a lot to do with pace

Title: Roses & Thorns
Post by: chipstern on November 25, 2020, 11:24:33 AM
I believe BoD's base assumption, which is that the Knicks did not reach out and engage in strong pursuit of top tier free agents is sibject to review. 

According to the beat man for the TIMES, the Knicks were all-in on a Gordon Hayward Pursuit, SF-PF being the object of Thibs' admiration and affection. 

So much so that they purportedly upped their initial offer from two years to four years guaranteed, but flinched at $30 million x 4 guaranteed, which I view as prudent. 

One may assume that their offer was in FVV country, like $20-25 million. 

And while they were in the hunt for GH, DJ Augustin got away, signing on to back up Jrue Holiday on the Bucks. 

As for Bogodonavich, leave us assume that there was some outreach but that he preferred Atlanta. 

So, might one fairly assume the Knicks FA signings were part of a thoughtful PLAN B, when PLAN A for FVV and then GH evaporated, as opposed to simply holding their dicks, as some are wont to assume. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 25, 2020, 11:28:25 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 25, 2020, 11:18:28 AM
Smith has a lot to do with pace

Absolutely.

Which is something Thibs has made note of, and which was certainly the signature of pre-and even-post injury Derrick Rose. 

And which explains our developmental look at 2-Way Jared Harper, the re-up of Payton, and an honest competitive shot for Smith.

Pace never having been a Ntilikina strong suit.  That and his the infuriatingly casual manner of now and then telegraphing lateral passes once crossing mid-court. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 25, 2020, 11:44:58 AM
You have to stop already with Harper

The point I make with Smith is that he is 1 or 2 in the depth chart at PG.  Due to his pace he needs to be on the floor for us 20 minutes or so a night, minimal.

If he is a turnover machine, fine - then you can start to see other scenarios.  But I expect at least steadier than last year play from DSJ - and for him to at times be very very good (this not unlike Payton).

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 25, 2020, 11:47:10 AM
You'd also have to think that Frank's bulking up some would have to do with prep to guard stronger 2s and 3s.

I am still convinced that FN is still here because he had little value rather than our want to keep him for purpose.  And I expect him to be in any deal we make, if there is one to be made
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 25, 2020, 12:09:13 PM
Interesting re:  CHA and BOS

Seems Fac is right - deal not official yet

Batum is involved but BOS wants a trade exception, so seek a third team to take Nic's 27 mil salary.

I guess we could - if given enough draft pick reward for our troubles.

What would Celts be willing to offer, so that they can ADD a player using the exception - rather than get bupkus for Hayward?

Adrian Wojnarowski: Sources: Boston and Charlotte have worked on a sign-and-trade for Gordon Hayward that would land Celtics a trade exception, but Hornets have first been trying to find a third team for Nic Batum’s $27M contract to see if there’s a way to avoid waiving-and-stretching his money. – via Twitter wojespn
 Top Rumors, Trade, Gordon Hayward, Nicolas Batum, Boston Celtics,


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 25, 2020, 12:17:39 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 25, 2020, 12:09:13 PM
Interesting re:  CHA and BOS

Seems Fac is right - deal not official yet

Batum is involved but BOS wants a trade exception, so seek a third team to take Nic's 27 mil salary.

I guess we could - if given enough draft pick reward for our troubles.

What would Celts be willing to offer, so that they can ADD a player using the exception - rather than get bupkus for Hayward?

Adrian Wojnarowski: Sources: Boston and Charlotte have worked on a sign-and-trade for Gordon Hayward that would land Celtics a trade exception, but Hornets have first been trying to find a third team for Nic Batum’s $27M contract to see if there’s a way to avoid waiving-and-stretching his money. – via Twitter wojespn
 Top Rumors, Trade, Gordon Hayward, Nicolas Batum, Boston Celtics,

We have 18 million in cap space remaining.  NOT 27. 
Title: Jared Harper
Post by: chipstern on November 25, 2020, 12:23:07 PM
Is this a negotiation?

Why exactly should I stop referencing JARED HARPER?  Ever seen him play? 

You want an accomodation?

Fair enough. 

You have made your last posting that refererences JIMMER FREDDETTE. 

Capiche?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 25, 2020, 12:55:57 PM
We have 18 million in cap space remaining.  NOT 27.


Bye, Kevin and Frank
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 25, 2020, 01:14:57 PM
I don't know what Thibs plan to do.
But I'm pretty in line with kiid's take on our PG's.
We're not really competing for anything except maybe the 8th seed if things go exceedingly well.
So might as well give Jr. Smith 20+ mins a night and see what he can and can't do.  Could increase his trade value, or  he could become a reliable backup.  I'd be fine starting Smith Jr if he's up for it and could direct the team enough.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Franc get some spot PG minutes, especially if Smith is undefunked.  But Franc is primarily a defensive SG, and will probably be situational, since we have RJB, Rivers, Burks, Bullox.  One of that latter trio doesn't get minutes.  We might see a good deal of RJB at the 3, with Knox and Bullock backing him up.

But as it stands, Elf - Smith are our PG's.
Franc and Rivers can combo G it and fill in for injuries and foul trouble (or int he case of Smith, ineffectiveness).

If we want another C, can probably pick up Willy Hernangomez or an excess Plumlee or someone for the vet min.  Don't think we need a name guy or to spend money there.  Someone will fall through the cracks and be serviceable.  Maybe we can get Mozgov back ...
Did anyone pick up Taj?

Otherwise it will be interesting to see if Toppings can play anywhere outside of PF.
Maybe that's enough for him to learn,  But we have a hole at SF.  And some nights might need an extra 10 mins at C.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 25, 2020, 01:27:38 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 25, 2020, 01:14:57 PM
I don't know what Thibs plan to do.
But I'm pretty in line with kiid's take on our PG's.
We're not really competing for anything except maybe the 8th seed if things go exceedingly well.
So might as well give Jr. Smith 20+ mins a night and see what he can and can't do.  Could increase his trade value, or  he could become a reliable backup.  I'd be fine starting Smith Jr if he's up for it and could direct the team enough.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Franc get some spot PG minutes, especially if Smith is undefunked.  But Franc is primarily a defensive SG, and will probably be situational, since we have RJB, Rivers, Burks, Bullox.  One of that latter trio doesn't get minutes.  We might see a good deal of RJB at the 3, with Knox and Bullock backing him up.

But as it stands, Elf - Smith are our PG's.
Franc and Rivers can combo G it and fill in for injuries and foul trouble (or int he case of Smith, ineffectiveness).

If we want another C, can probably pick up Willy Hernangomez or an excess Plumlee or someone for the vet min.  Don't think we need a name guy or to spend money there.  Someone will fall through the cracks and be serviceable.  Maybe we can get Mozgov back ...

Hernan-Gomez just inked a one year deal with the Pelicans. 
Title: Uhhhh Huh [The King Of Comedy]
Post by: chipstern on November 25, 2020, 01:31:03 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 25, 2020, 12:55:57 PM
We have 18 million in cap space remaining.  NOT 27.


Bye, Kevin and Frank

(https://media.tenor.com/images/fbcf9609065baf0bc7e6eed501c9014f/tenor.gif)

Uh Huh. 

Right after we pull off a John Wall Trade

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ForsakenThickChupacabra-size_restricted.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 25, 2020, 02:31:48 PM
Willy's all-O, no-D routine didn't exactly fit well with Randle & ObiT anyway, not to mention Thibs.  I was just trying to come up with available C's off the top of my head.

Btw, I think kiid had Len on Sacto, but he just signed with Toronto.
1/$2.3M.  Nice pickup.  Big mofo with some skill.
I would have liked him as a backup C in Knixland.  or Giles.

So Klay ruptured his Achilles and out for the year.

Scurry - Wiggins - Uber K - Green Dray - WiseMan
Wanamaker - Damion Lee - Bazemore - Paschall - Marquis Chriss
Edit: I forgot Looney.

It's a good team, but what happens if Scurry misses some games?  Or Dray?
And relying on a bunch of new/young guys.
Probably a G short now.  And a pretty unproven Big rotation.

If they stay healthy, maybe a 4/5 playoff seed.
But more likely closer to 6th.
I'd think it'll take time for the players to get used to each other.

Wiggy, Uber and Wiseman can all fly up and down the court.
Could be fun pushing the pace.  Steph key to it all.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 25, 2020, 02:41:45 PM
Yeah they like Jessup and Mannion as well
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 25, 2020, 02:44:26 PM
Juan Toscano-Anderson, Michael Mulder and Dwayne Sutton also in camp
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 25, 2020, 03:00:11 PM
Since we are discussing teams...sorry but I disagree with the masses.  Really like the Rockets.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 25, 2020, 03:12:34 PM
Why?

Rockettes lost Covington, Au Rivers, Jeff Green.
Didn't have a 1st round pick.

Added Christian Wood, DeMarcus Cousins, Sterling Brown.

Both Westbrook and Harden want out.
That can't be good for morale, chemistry, their relationship.
Title: RIP Diego
Post by: Kam on November 25, 2020, 03:26:10 PM
Diego Maradona has died at the age of 60
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 25, 2020, 03:38:15 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 25, 2020, 03:12:34 PM
Why?

Rockettes lost Covington, Au Rivers, Jeff Green.
Didn't have a 1st round pick.

Added Christian Wood, DeMarcus Cousins, Sterling Brown.

Both Westbrook and Harden want out.
That can't be good for morale, chemistry, their relationship.

Yes.  Wood seen as the key addition.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 25, 2020, 03:39:04 PM
R.I.P. Maradona

Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 25, 2020, 12:55:57 PM
We have 18 million in cap space remaining.  NOT 27.


Bye, Kevin and Frank

Are you going to be following Dennis and Reggie out as we help complete that trade to get Nic and some more draft compensation?
Title: This Just In
Post by: chipstern on November 25, 2020, 05:38:25 PM
Stefan Bondy: Knicks have officially signed Jared Harper to a two way contract. – via Twitter SBondyNYDN

Stefan Bondy: Lakers have extended a qualifying offer to Jimmer Fredette for their MCE. – via Twitter SBondyNYDN
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 25, 2020, 06:46:44 PM
Nah.  Tres Tinkle to LA though.  Good player.
Title: Facil-I-Tee
Post by: chipstern on November 25, 2020, 07:07:09 PM
Adrian Wojnarowski: Free agent center Hassan Whiteside has agreed to a one-year deal with the Sacramento Kings, sources tell ESPN. – via Twitter wojespn
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 25, 2020, 07:13:16 PM
We signed Aaron Brooks.

He’s joining the coaching staff.

Tough, pesky player in his day.
Title: Just Think....
Post by: chipstern on November 25, 2020, 07:35:48 PM
The Boston Celtics have signed All-Star forward Jayson Tatum to a contract extension, the team announced today. – via Boston Celtics @ NBA.com

And just think, Danny Ainge could've had Markelle Fultz or Lonzo Ball.

I'd ask for a Mulligan. 


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 25, 2020, 10:24:09 PM
I'd ask for a Mulligan.


I'm in if its Carey.

Yeah, Ball was the way to go.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 25, 2020, 10:36:23 PM
This just in:  The Austin Rivers acquisition will be a SIGN AND TRADE.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 25, 2020, 10:38:47 PM
Chimezie Metu, formerly a guy I liked as a second rounder, joins Whiteside in Sactown (from Spurs)
Title: Trivia time
Post by: Kam on November 26, 2020, 01:19:12 AM
Before Austin Rivers joined the team ... three other father-son duos have played for the New York Knickerbockers...


Name em...

Hint*. Patrick Ewing Jr. didn't make the final team roster
Title: Austin Rivers
Post by: chipstern on November 26, 2020, 04:24:42 AM
Sign & Trade?

That should be interesting. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 26, 2020, 04:56:14 AM
This is probably us sending them a dollar or rights to swap 2nd rounders some years in the future so they wind up with a trade exception.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 26, 2020, 07:20:48 AM
Ernie and Kiki Vandewaghe.
(if I spelled that right).

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 26, 2020, 10:13:14 AM
Nice. I drew a total blank, though I wonder if there are some Wilkins in the list.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 26, 2020, 12:10:22 PM
We had Gerald Wilkins but not son Damien.
We had Jerian Grant but not pops Harvey.

I'll try to think of others.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 26, 2020, 01:14:23 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 26, 2020, 07:20:48 AM
Erenie and Kiki Vandewaghe.
(if I spelled that right).

That's one.  Two left.  I remember seeing Kiki as a Knick but i'm not old enough to remember Ernie.

Hint1:  One pairing is very old.   I never saw father or son play.
Hint2: The other pairing is more recent.  The son played for the Knicks  sometime during the last 10 years.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 26, 2020, 01:21:49 PM
Butch & Jan Van Breda Koff?

I know Butch was an ancient Knick.
Think Jan had a season or two.
Though mostly a Net.

Recent, I can't think of anyone.
I think the Vandeweghes and Van Breda Koffs came up as the trivia answer in the last decade when we had our last father son duo.

But I'm blanking on who that was ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 26, 2020, 01:25:53 PM
Andy & Leo Rautins?
Did Leo Rautins play for the paleo-Knix?

Renaldo Balkman and his father Rolando Blackman?

(joking)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 26, 2020, 01:32:39 PM
Butch was an early Knick in the BAA and later possibly NBA.  Jan was a New York Net.  Not the same franchise.

Leo Rautins not a Knick.


One of the pairs I'll give you now is Al and Allie McGuire

The other pair I'll give you more time to chew on.

One more Hint: 
The son never won an NBA Title but he played for one as a member of the Heat. 
He also reached one of the most memorable Western Conference Finals in league history.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 26, 2020, 02:08:19 PM
Ah, I was thinking Dick McGuire, but couldn't get anywhere with that.
Title: To Obi Or Not To Be
Post by: chipstern on November 26, 2020, 02:17:38 PM
Obi Toppin & O.B. Kanobe?

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D7rYJMkXkAEyUKS.png)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on November 26, 2020, 02:19:12 PM
Phil Jackson and Mark Jackson
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 26, 2020, 02:41:54 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 26, 2020, 02:08:19 PM
Ah, I was thinking Dick McGuire, but couldn't get anywhere with that.
Al McGuire's kid played for his dad in college but I don't know if he was a Knick
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 26, 2020, 02:49:56 PM
Allie McGuire's entire career consisted of 10 minutes over 2 games with the Knix early in 1973.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on November 26, 2020, 03:12:48 PM
how about Henry and Mike Bibby
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 26, 2020, 05:40:43 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on November 26, 2020, 03:12:48 PM
how about Henry and Mike Bibby

Correct!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on November 26, 2020, 07:40:59 PM
I knew Henry as a Knick from the "glory days" but i WAGGED Mike
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 26, 2020, 09:10:42 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 26, 2020, 05:40:43 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on November 26, 2020, 03:12:48 PM
how about Henry and Mike Bibby

Correct!

Nicely done.
Title: Mr. Google
Post by: carlos123 on November 27, 2020, 12:29:54 AM
Don’t mean to be a spoiler, but you people could have just googled it, you know, something like “father and son who played for the new york knicks”. First pair that comes up is the Bibbies.
Interesting question anyway, Kamster. There are also answers for nba father/son duos.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 27, 2020, 12:30:56 AM
Mike Bibby, when the Knix were cycling through aged PG's.
Steve Francis, Chauncey, Bibby, Baron Davis, Jason Kidd (who was fantastic for us).
Bibby and Baron were even on the same team.
Wasn't that how we got Linsanity?
Baron was injured and Bibby aged and ineffective.
And our other young guys, Toney Douglas, weren't up for the task ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 27, 2020, 12:34:12 AM
Damn, good advice.
And here I was trying to get Clyde's number in the Virgin Islands


Googling kind of short-circuits a trivia question.
It's a challenge.  The answer itself isn't really important.
Title: GEORGIA ON MY MIND, In The On Deck Circle...Hope Springs Eternal
Post by: chipstern on November 27, 2020, 07:37:52 AM
Well, two of Facil's bigs, Whiteside and Kaminsky, signed with the Kings. 

Dedmon? 

Appears to have signed a 2 X $14 Million Contract with Atlanta, who have been aggressive in beefing up Trae Young's supporting cast. 

C: Dedmond

PF-C: Capela, Fernando, Okongwu

SF-PF: Gallinari, Collins, Hill

SG-SF: Bogdanovic, Hunter, Reddish, Heuerter, Snell, Mays, Goodwin

PG: Young, Rondo

I eagerly await BoD's poignant wouldacouldashoulda. 

But surely a tip of the hat is in order for the Hawks, a solid veteran haul in Gallinari, Bogdonavich and Rondo to go with three good draft classes in a row.  Nice roster construction. 

The difference being between us and....THEM, their puppy Trae Young has essayed a great leap forward yet to be attained by RJ, Mitchell, Knox, Smith, Nitilikina, and the outlines of their next steps were more clearly drawn than our own.  Which might explain why Rondo was a tenable target for the Hawks, but not for our Knicks, who basically were not charting out so clear a path forward these past two years. 

Yet, even as we speak, in the on-deck circle, WIN NOW THIBODEAU is tasked with arriving at a direction and a culture choosing from the latest opening casting call of talent, to see, which men will be left standing come the summer of 2021. 

While acknowleding our inevitable pre-season expectations and dire projections, midst the pandemic, while anticipating regime changes and the Georgia Senatorial Runoffs, my thoughts and prayers, so to speak, are with Stacy Abrams, and the good citizens of Georgia, to whom I offer a hearty shout out, that the new directions forged for your basketball franchise, might, The Universe Willing, betoken an equally positive, progressive change for our nation as a whole. 

I am, as always, hopelessly optimistic, well, keenly anticipating training camp and the pre-season, and a chance to engage the multiplicity of narratives and competitive back stories which await. 

I AM AND REMAIN A KNICKS FAN, as I have been, God help me, since attending my first Knicks game back in February of 1961.  How will our latest reboot play out?

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/131f801bd418cb65fd2f80addf07d2bc/tenor.gif?itemid=13486879)

In the meantime, I have a rooting interest in the people of Georgia and their Atlanta Franchise.  You dig?  The playoffs and a Democratic majority in the United States Senate? 

Georgia On My Mind?

(https://media4.giphy.com/media/jpE8OfdJtBHgzN5qRe/giphy.gif)

Hope springs eternal.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 27, 2020, 08:58:46 AM
Steve Francis, Chauncey, Bibby, Baron Davis, Jason Kidd (who was fantastic for us).
Bibby and Baron were even on the same team

A list of greats that didnt have good enough supporting casts
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 27, 2020, 09:29:04 AM
Most of those were great PG's or at least very good starters years prior to their Knick stint.  We got most of them after they had already blown a gasket.
Which is why almost all of that list retired after just one or two seasons as a Knick.(I'd have to look it up to be sure).

Bibby was especially decrepit for us.
Baron was intriguing until he started leaving body parts on the hardwood.
I think Stevie Franchise had a drinking problem at that stage of his career.
Etc.

It's a fine idea to have super-vet PG's to lead and guide and mentor, but the Knick problem was we were counting on such graybeards to be our starting PG's and log big minutes.  Which never worked out ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 27, 2020, 09:38:02 AM
DUNN also in ATL, right?

Capela getting hosed again - was poised for a huge season.

Q:  Are the Hawks are DEFINITE top 8 team?

Who are the FOUL FIVE in the East (11-15)?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 27, 2020, 09:54:21 AM
ATL did a terrific job.
This off-season and the last 3 years really.
Drafted well, were patient, and decided to pounce in FA with cap space this year.
Most of what they did this off-season could have been done or tried by the Knix but we didn't try.

I wouldn't want the Gallo signing given his age and injury history, though a reunion woulda been nice.  It'd be a much more interesting and better NYK team if we had added Rondo & Bodganovich.  We'd have a semi-legit starting 5.  Though light on shooters.  Was it doable?  I don't think players were especially clamoring to play with Trae, just that ATL was willing to make the offers (and yes, they do have a somewhat more advanced and coherent roster than NYK, which coulda been decisive if we had joined the FA game).

Rondo - Bogdan - RJB - Randle - Mitch
Draft a shooter -- Avdija/ Obi/Vassell.
(I think TyH is too similar to Bogdanovich)

Really Rondo isn't the right guard for such a team, but he's similar to and better than Elf.  I would have been pleased adding Bodganovich and the draft pick (ObiT or Avdija).  At least we'd, be making our incremental step and building for the future.
Instead of our 3rd year of new faces on one year contracts.

Was the plan this year just Do No Harm?
Shoulda come up with a plan this year instead of wait til next year ...

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 27, 2020, 10:08:57 AM
I really like Collins.  Think he has some Karl Malone to his game.
DeAndre Hunter is promising.

I'd keep tabs on ATL, a guy like Reddish or even Collins (if Okongwu is a beast) could get squeezed for minutes and become available.  I'm not sure why they're not higher on Collins, but now he has Gallo and Okongwu on his tail.  Gallo isn't really an SF or combo-F anymore, as he's bulked up and his mobility has decreased.  I guess with the OBiT pick we're not really looking to add a Collins.

ATL can try lots of lineups, since they are now quite deep.
The key is to have defenders around Trae and shooters too.
Trae - Bogdan - Gallo -- that's 3 pretty talented snipers.
Collins & Hunter can hit 3's too.
And Capela will open things up with PnR screen and rolls.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 27, 2020, 10:12:05 AM
ATL is adding free agents to supplant minutes of their recent draftees.

Isnt this what you criticized the Knicks for?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 27, 2020, 10:23:25 AM
It's not useful if you add in one year vets who won't be here long-term. (Knix)
Different if you're adding in vets who are building blocks and long term starters. (ATL).  But also maybe some of the Knix yute -- Franc/Knox/Smith -- just didn't merit more minutes.  RJB played plenty.

ATL just needs one of Hunter/Reddish to prove out.
I'm not sure about the Gallo signing, but perhaps they just see it as a good investment, as he had some suitors (supposedly). 

Hawks added assets.  Knix only managed that with MaMo.
I wouldn't be surprised to see ATL move Gallo/Reddish or Collins/Reddish in the next year or two.  Even possibly one of Okongwu/Capela.  But for now they can try combos and see what works.  And see how Hunter and Reddish and Huerter develop.

While evaluating
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 27, 2020, 10:29:05 AM
Nets keep Tyler Johnson

Good player.

Meanwhile. I wonder if Knicks are in on this guy

Real Madrid lost star guard Facu Campazzo to the NBA (the Denver Nuggets to be specific) and there is a reported possibility that this may also happen with another player of the team. According to Marca, Real Madrid forward Gabriel Deck will be using the exit clause on his contract with “Blancos” and sign with an NBA club even next week if his team doesn’t present him with an extension offer really soon. There are some NBA teams that have “shown an interest” for the Argentinian player and he’s ready to make the jump, unless something changes with his contract situation with Real
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 27, 2020, 10:31:47 AM
Hawks are going nowhere this year and by winning more games are just limiting what they can do in next year's draft.  8th seed is a LOSER for building teams.

No?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 27, 2020, 10:38:02 AM
Re:  "Only Morris was an asset"

I think Knicks could have dealt Payton and others last season in addition to Morris.  Needed to keep some salaries to use in potential sign and trades.

NBA economics is funny sometimes.  It is said Miami gave Meyers Leonard his deal so they would have something to trade next summer when seeking a top S and T free agent.

But Morris is the perfect example/  Crying on this board last year was that he was blocking Knox development and Elfrid blocking Frank.

Such folly.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 27, 2020, 10:39:21 AM
Now, the PROPER way to look at it is in recent analysis of OKC, that in becoming a playoff type West team the value of ALL their talent went up (see the guys they dealt) for further team maneuvers.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 27, 2020, 10:56:56 AM
New disciple for Steven Adams - and updated New Orleans depth chart

https://www.nola.com/article_f4873b62-30be-11eb-bf81-3b58abfea87d.html


Point guard: Lonzo Ball/Nickeil Alexander-Walker/Kira Lewis Jr.

Shooting guard: Eric Bledsoe/JJ Redick/Sindarius Thornwell

Small forward: Brandon Ingram/Josh Hart/Naji Marshall*

Power forward: Zion Williamson/Nicolo Melli/Wenyen Gabriel

Center: Steven Adams/Jaxson Hayes/Willy Hernangomez/Will Magnay*


Competition is for 9 and 10 slot behind those in bold
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 27, 2020, 11:20:46 AM
Playoff experience will be valuable for ATL.
They have a lot of pieces in place, time to compete and figure out the chemistry/mix.
Making what they have work is more important than getting another highish pick.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 27, 2020, 11:26:27 AM
Exactly.

Knicks have been there before

That we never got back to a conference final - or semi - or whatever - doesn't change the rationale for having acted as we did (trying to...cough....win - imagine) .

I disagree with you big time on John Collins but that is for another day.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 27, 2020, 11:29:46 AM
By the way - it should be pointed out that we DID NOT get screwed in dropping from 6 to 7 back to EIGHTH PICK in winning more games toward the end of the '19-'20 campaign

Very likely we take Toppin at SIX and certainly at SEVEN - only difference being that the 6 pick may have been more tradeable up or down - not in who we eventually ended up with (like with losing Curry and others)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 27, 2020, 11:39:39 AM
Brandon Ingram got a 5/$518 max contract.
Kinda insane off of one good season.

Over his 4 year career, his 3Pt% has fluctuated:
Y1 29%
Y2 39%
Y3 33%
Y4 39%

In 3 years with LAL, Ingram shot 66% on FT's
But upped that to an impressive 85% FT with NOPe.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 27, 2020, 12:00:20 PM
John Collins splits last year 58% FG / 40% on 3's / 80% FT
Was a 20/10 guy.
Nearly 2 blocks a game.
Every year he's increased his numbers.
Hasn't shot less than 56% FG.

Needs to work on passing and defense.
But his offensive game is elite.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 27, 2020, 12:41:50 PM
Ingram every bit the player Tatum is
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 27, 2020, 01:08:43 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 27, 2020, 12:41:50 PM
Ingram every bit the player Tatum is

So two or three times better than Markell Fultz or Lonzo Ball. I can agree with that.
Title: You Got This?
Post by: chipstern on November 27, 2020, 01:50:40 PM
The Houston Rockets are signing and trading Austin Rivers to New York, along with the international rights to Sergio Llull, Tadija Dragicevic, and Alex Hervelle, in exchange for the draft rights to combo guard Issuf Sanon. Now 21 years old, Sanon was a second-round draft pick in 2018.

While Rivers had agreed to the contract with the Knicks several days ago, the Rockets still had “early Bird” contractual rights to Rivers after his two seasons with the team. In Friday’s deal, Houston used those rights to sign Rivers to the contract (worth up to $10 million over three years) before trading the veteran guard to his desired destination.

For New York, this allowed them to avoid having to use cap space to sign Rivers. Meanwhile, Houston benefits by recouping minor assets for a player who otherwise would’ve left for no compensation.

The Rockets will also generate a small traded player exception (TPE) in the deal, which can be used until an equivalent point in the 2021 NBA offseason. TPEs allow NBA teams to take in a player of that salary or lower via trade, even if they are above the salary cap (which the Rockets are). It can also be used to facilitate waiver claims at that amount or less.

The TPE from the Rivers trade is likely to be worth just under $2.2 million, according to salary cap expert David Weiner of ClutchFans.

The value of the TPE, though, is in the same ballpark as the NBA’s minimum salary — which makes it fairly inconsequential. The larger prize is Sanon, a 6-foot-4 Ukrainian guard from who was drafted No. 44 overall in 2018. Here’s his scouting report by Sports Illustrated‘s Jeremy Woo:

“Sanon is an attractive stash candidate who seems likely to earn an NBA opportunity in due time,” writes Woo, who compared Sanon to Jordan Crawford. “Scouts love his hard-nosed approach to the game.”

Sanon’s strengths, according to Woo’s 2018 draft report, are athleticism, transition play, and defensive effort. Meanwhile, weaknesses include an inconsistent 3-point shot and playmaking as a point guard.

Sanon played in the NBA Summer League in 2018 and 2019, which would appear to signal some interest on his part in eventually coming to the NBA. (There was no summer league in 2020, owing to COVID-19.)

As for the draft rights headed to New York, Llull is now 33 years old and appears unwilling to leave Spain for the NBA. The Rockets had held his rights since 2009. Dragicevic and Hervelle are 34 and 37, respectively, so it’s even less likely for either of those two to make the leap than it is for Llull. Both power forwards are currently playing in Europe.

Sanon, however, has plenty of time still left to make a move. That makes him (and the TPE) a worthwhile acquisition for Rockets GM Rafael Stone, given that Rivers was already poised to leave, no matter what.
Title: And Where Did Issuf Sanon Come From?
Post by: chipstern on November 27, 2020, 01:52:01 PM
The NBA trade deadline passed Thursday afternoon with multiple players having been moved around the league. This includes Marcus Morris Sr., who found himself a new home in California through a three-team trade between the New York Knicks, Los Angeles Clippers, and Washington Wizards. In return, the Knicks received Moe Harkless, a 2020 first-round pick (via the Clippers), a 2021 second-round pick (via the Pistons), and a 2021 first-round pick swap (with the Clippers).

The Knicks also received the draft rights to Issuf Sanon.

Issuf is a Ukrainian guard who the Washington Wizards selected with the No. 44 pick in the 2018 NBA Draft. He played with KK Petrol Olimpija prior to entering the draft.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 27, 2020, 02:51:11 PM
Cool.  Didnt know this about the cap space.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 27, 2020, 03:16:11 PM
And as is usually the case when the Celtics don’t turn a highly publicized rumor into a reality, we’re getting a reason why that deal never went through. According to ESPN’s Zach Lowe, the Celtics were never really that high on Turner. Boston apparently didn’t see him as a very big upgrade to their frontcourt, and was even exploring other deals to trade Turner had the deal with Indiana come to fruition. “Talking to people and reading the tea leaves as best I could, it really comes down to the Celtics didn’t want Myles Turner,” Lowe said on The Lowe Post Podcast. “I did hear from some teams around the league that the Celtics have done some preliminary research on what Myles Turner’s trade value would have been to them had they acquired him either in this deal or in a separate deal, and obviously didn’t like what they saw.” – via CBS Boston @ CBS Local

heh

Imagine that
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on November 27, 2020, 04:47:52 PM
How did Myles Powell end up with the Knix, he actually has pro-level talent? Another race for the first draft choice.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 27, 2020, 06:40:23 PM
Quote from: luee on November 27, 2020, 04:47:52 PM
How did Myles Powell end up with the Knix, he actually has pro-level talent?

Yep
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 27, 2020, 07:19:00 PM
If we are now still 20 mil under the cap due to the alchemy around Rivers, we could turn Dennis Smith and Jacob Evans into Nic Batum and maybe pry another asset or two out of Charlotte in the process.

Mitch Noel Spellman
Randle Toppin Iggy
Barrett Knox Batum
Burks Bullock Quickley
Frank Payton Rivers

Balances us nicely and adds another savvy vet.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 27, 2020, 09:04:54 PM
Yep

Dude can still play
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 28, 2020, 03:55:17 AM
As far as I can tell, still no one knows what they’re doing in Charlotte. Could mean something is in the works with someone...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 28, 2020, 04:12:38 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 28, 2020, 03:55:17 AM
As far as I can tell, still no one knows what they’re doing in Charlotte. Could mean something is in the works with someone...

I'm not in such a hurry to dump Dennis Smith. 
Title: My Old Kentucky Home
Post by: chipstern on November 28, 2020, 11:47:53 AM
https://nypost.com/2020/11/28/knicks-signing-michael-kidd-gilchrist-in-nba-free-agency/ (https://nypost.com/2020/11/28/knicks-signing-michael-kidd-gilchrist-in-nba-free-agency/)

Kiid

Meet

Kidd
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 28, 2020, 11:54:26 AM
Knicks preseason schedule is out

2 in Detroit, 12/11 and 12/13
2 vs Cavs at Garden, 12/16 and 12/18
Title: Re: My Old Kentucky Home
Post by: chipstern on November 28, 2020, 11:57:09 AM
Quote from: chipstern on November 28, 2020, 11:47:53 AM
https://nypost.com/2020/11/28/knicks-signing-michael-kidd-gilchrist-in-nba-free-agency/ (https://nypost.com/2020/11/28/knicks-signing-michael-kidd-gilchrist-in-nba-free-agency/)

Kiid

Meet

Kidd

Getting Kind Of Crowded

C: Robinson, Noel

PF-C: Randle, Toppin, Spellman

SF-PF: Knox, Kidd-Gilchrist, Brazdeikis

SG-SF: Barrett, Burks, Bullock

PG-SG: Smith, Rivers, Payton, Ntiklina, Quickley

That makes 16. 

Kentucky Knicks: Noel, Randle, Knox, Kidd-Gilchrist, Quickley
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 28, 2020, 12:13:05 PM
Deal coming....



Heh

Keep saying it and it will....
Title: Deal?
Post by: chipstern on November 28, 2020, 12:23:53 PM
Sure seems that way....

Gilcrhist [27] makes sense for Thibs. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 28, 2020, 12:31:05 PM
No comment on MKG til I actually see him play, which may not be soon.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 28, 2020, 12:33:46 PM
RON HARPER redux

Knicks may have Jr on radar after he nets 30 for Rutgers yesterday (11-16, 5-9 from deep)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 28, 2020, 12:37:54 PM
Makes sense for Knix to actually have one SF who can play defense ...
If nothing else, could be useful situationally when you need a stop.
I haven't seen MKG much in the last 2 years.
But he's a hard worker.
Probably could use a more coherent team than the Knix to try to get his O on track.
But the op is there, since he just needs to beta out Knox really.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 28, 2020, 02:08:26 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 28, 2020, 12:37:54 PM
Makes sense for Knix to actually have one SF who can play defense ...
If nothing else, could be useful situationally when you need a stop.
I haven't seen MKG much in the last 2 years.
But he's a hard worker.
Probably could use a more coherent team than the Knix to try to get his O on track.
But the op is there, since he just needs to beta out Knox really.

Writing off Kevin, are we? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 28, 2020, 02:14:32 PM
You forgot Jacob Evans, Chip. We’re at 17. MKG on the same kind of contract as Myles Powell so maybe we count it as 18 + 2 two-ways. 

It’s all good small bore moves fostering competition in camp without squandering assets.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 28, 2020, 02:32:21 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 28, 2020, 12:37:54 PM
Makes sense for Knix to actually have one SF who can play defense ...
If nothing else, could be useful situationally when you need a stop.
I haven't seen MKG much in the last 2 years.
But he's a hard worker.
Probably could use a more coherent team than the Knix to try to get his O on track.
But the op is there, since he just needs to beta out Knox really.

Bullock
Burks
Knox
Kidd-G
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 28, 2020, 02:33:18 PM
Also a chance Thibs likes RJ as a 3 with all the guard options he has
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 28, 2020, 03:05:07 PM
MKG couldn’t find offense in Dallas. It doesn’t really get more coherent than under Carlisle in Dallas.

MKG will be very useful in showing Knox, Obi, and Randle where they need to cleanup their games so they fly against good individual defenders.

It would take a move that causes shakeups to open up a floor role for him. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 28, 2020, 04:03:00 PM
Does look like we got Bo's first rounder for free, doesn't it (MKG = Okoro)?

And still get the offensive talent.

Heh.

Leon over Bo.  But it's early
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 28, 2020, 05:07:51 PM
Just strap MKG to ObiT's back and turn them around as needed.

Okoro wasn't my choice at all.
And if Okoro is only MKG, then he went way too high.

I still don't get the Toppin pick.
- a one position guy in a multi-position league.
- a weak defender who can't switch in a switch-everything league.
- our one legit starter is basically the same player, an offensive PF who plays one position with poor D.
- also 22 which means that he's not the raw risk Franc/Knox were, but also less ceiling. 
- Lastly wings and G's and shooters are where the action is, and you can pick up a solid C cheap and a decent PF relatively easily.  But valuable 3&D switching wings and scoring PG's are golden and harder to get.

As for Knox, there's a player in there.  But he's young and maybe it's a Euroleague player.  At least MKG will push Knox in practice.  Knox needs to be more physical.  And more alert on D.  To me, it's pretty clear Franc isn't a PG and isn't a starter.
Knox still could become a starting SF.  But he has a lot to improve on.  Needs to take a step forward this year.  Maybe all the Kentucky love will help him.  Might be a 2nd contract guy at best.   Kind of an enigma for now.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 28, 2020, 06:21:13 PM
"If Okoro is only MKG he went way too high"

Yeah.  May have been C Stern that was more bullish.  My bad.  I rushed that one.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 28, 2020, 06:44:56 PM
Thibs guy!!!!

Hearing J Noah may soon be available.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 28, 2020, 07:04:37 PM
"I still don't get the Toppin pick"

You will.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 28, 2020, 07:38:41 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 28, 2020, 06:44:56 PM
Thibs guy!!!!

Hearing J Noah may soon be available.

Ever hear of the laws of karma?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 28, 2020, 07:39:23 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 28, 2020, 07:04:37 PM
"I still don't get the Toppin pick"

You will.

It's a purgative process. 

BoD will be alright. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 28, 2020, 08:06:43 PM
Looks like the trump admin thread got locked somehow. Must be making way for the Biden admin thread now all the election challenges have failed.

Does Taj have a team yet?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on November 28, 2020, 08:30:31 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 28, 2020, 08:06:43 PM
Looks like the trump admin thread got locked somehow. Must be making way for the Biden admin thread now all the election challenges have failed.

Does Taj have a team yet?

Fac-I thought I got locked out as a punitive measure.

Josh seems to enjoy pontificating knowing he won't get any blowback.

LMAO
Title: Trumptin thread
Post by: carlos123 on November 28, 2020, 09:00:17 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on November 28, 2020, 08:30:31 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 28, 2020, 08:06:43 PM
Looks like the trump admin thread got locked somehow. Must be making way for the Biden admin thread now all the election challenges have failed.

Does Taj have a team yet?

Fac-I thought I got locked out as a punitive measure.

Josh seems to enjoy pontificating knowing he won't get any blowback.

LMAO

Well, I went there once, and 80% of posts were from Chamaco Cartero.
Never went back, I enjoy laughing at Chamaco, but he's enough in small doses and that was one motherfucker overdose.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 28, 2020, 09:18:40 PM
Out of jail & back on tour! I might have been in your splash zone, Banks. Rudest thing I did all day was a low res animation.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on November 28, 2020, 10:58:16 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 28, 2020, 09:18:40 PM
Out of jail & back on tour! I might have been in your splash zone, Banks. Rudest thing I did all day was a low res animation.

Seems Pope Josh needed the last word after all.

He closed the Trump Forum with a final post chastising me for not being sufficiently rigorous in his faith, and not ascribing to his covid conspiracy theory.

Praise be

LMAO





Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 28, 2020, 11:02:33 PM
How has Thompson matched up with Embid over the years? How does he do against Bam?
Title: ???
Post by: carlos123 on November 29, 2020, 12:45:46 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on November 28, 2020, 10:58:16 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 28, 2020, 09:18:40 PM
Out of jail & back on tour! I might have been in your splash zone, Banks. Rudest thing I did all day was a low res animation.

Seems Pope Josh needed the last word after all.

He closed the Trump Forum with a final post chastising me for not being sufficiently rigorous in his faith, and not ascribing to his covid conspiracy theory.

Praise be

LMAO

What on earth you talking about?
Do I need to go back there and check it out?
I thought Chamaco had the exclusive on conspiracies.
What am I missing?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 29, 2020, 01:01:20 AM
Trump forum is closed but the Biden forum (http://forums.escapefromelba.com/index.php?topic=179.0) is brand new and open for business.
Title: Re: ???
Post by: bankshot1 on November 29, 2020, 01:19:51 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on November 29, 2020, 12:45:46 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on November 28, 2020, 10:58:16 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 28, 2020, 09:18:40 PM
Out of jail & back on tour! I might have been in your splash zone, Banks. Rudest thing I did all day was a low res animation.

Seems Pope Josh needed the last word after all.

He closed the Trump Forum with a final post chastising me for not being sufficiently rigorous in his faith, and not ascribing to his covid conspiracy theory.

Praise be

LMAO

What on earth you talking about?
Do I need to go back there and check it out?
I thought Chamaco had the exclusive on conspiracies.
What am I missing?

Carlos

Long  story.

Pope Josh I has a conspiracy theory that he was very upset I didn't ascribe to, and after giving me the last word that he mockingly said i would take anyway, (Pope Josh is a little thin-skinned) and after I used it, he locked the thread, and then severely chastised me for my inability to accept the world as a conspiracy theorists sees it. It was pretty funny.

I'm a heretic.

Dare I say exiled in Elba!
Title: Banksy
Post by: Kam on November 29, 2020, 01:30:12 AM
You told him to STFU when he gave you the last word.  That's not very sporting.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 29, 2020, 02:38:14 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 28, 2020, 03:05:07 PM
MKG couldn’t find offense in Dallas. It doesn’t really get more coherent than under Carlisle in Dallas.

Well, he only played 13 games for DAL and took just 13 FG's.
Only 4 games got decent minutes.

Carlisle did play MKG all 7 playoff games to help contend with Kawhi and PG13, in a series in which DAL bench outplayed LAC's.

But sure MKG has a limited offensive game.  A defensive specialist. Doesn't help that he's had some shoulder surgery in the past.   27, good athlete, tough defender, physical, competes.   Some plays you need an extra defender out there.   Some lineups need a stopper.

Quote
MKG will be very useful in showing Knox, Obi, and Randle where they need to cleanup their games so they fly against good individual defenders.

Even as a practice player MKG could be useful, to toughen up Knox and Toppings.
Hopefully add some urgency to Knox, whose minutes/slot could be squeezed by RJB, Topping and MKG. 
Title: For What It's Worth
Post by: chipstern on November 29, 2020, 09:28:31 AM
In reflecting upon Immanuel Quickley's combo/point creds....this is a VERY PROPITIOUS OMEN. 

Quickley is a drummer. 

In any jazz, rock or R&B ensemble that is worth a damn, the drummer is the rudder, the point guard of the ensemble: tune and tempo, pace and dynamics. 

https://www.kevinhaydenmedia.com/4-nba-players-who-also-play-drums/ (https://www.kevinhaydenmedia.com/4-nba-players-who-also-play-drums/)

Steph Curry
Donovan Mitchell
Vince Carter....are also drummers, and Carter, like Quickley, also plays saxophone. 

(https://s.yimg.com/uu/api/res/1.2/0Wi9PBIyRYudms2d5TkIpg--~B/aD00MDA7dz02MTg7YXBwaWQ9eXRhY2h5b24-/https://media.zenfs.com/en-US/thewrap.com/a6137782c6a1a260af924521b6875910)

There is something about being a drummer, being an improvising musician, where you learn to clean up after your mistakes, and those of your compatriots, which doesn't necessarily mean that wrong is right, but that not only one can learn from mistakes, but with experience, in the course of steadying the ship, one can literally divine chicken salad from chicken shit. 

And not unlike a point guard, no one knows how to tell the drummer what they want, but everyone knows when it is wrong. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 29, 2020, 11:47:18 AM
N8 got knocked out cold on the Tyson-Jones Jr. undercard.
Always been a ballsy guy, but boxing is rough.
Hope he got paid fairly well for getting his brain rattled.

https://www.insider.com/jake-paul-scored-a-highlight-reel-ko-for-the-ages-2020-11

I have no idea why anyone would want to see two 50+ year old guys fight an exhibition ...
But seems there was millions sloshing aorund ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 29, 2020, 11:53:25 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 29, 2020, 11:47:18 AM
N8 got knocked out cold on the Tyson-Jones Jr. undercard.
Always been a ballsy guy, but boxing is rough.
Hope he got paid fairly well for getting his brain rattled.

https://www.insider.com/jake-paul-scored-a-highlight-reel-ko-for-the-ages-2020-11

Boxing is NOT a sometime thing. 

It is a lifetime's discipline.  You don't just decide, gee, I think I'll try boxing. 

I love N8, but he was lucky not to get killed. 

Let me put it this way...

I was once talking with Papa Jo Jones, who knew a thing or three about the art of drumming...

"Man, you get up on a stage with Buddy Rich, he'll make you wish you never learned to SPELL drums."
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 29, 2020, 02:05:11 PM
Most of the praise going to Snoop Dogg for his commentary:
https://twitter.com/i/status/1332916718008676352
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 29, 2020, 02:16:42 PM
Quote
Kidd-Gilchrist represents the fifth player former Kentucky player on the Knicks, joining Julius Randle, Kevin Knox, Nerlens Noel and Immanuel Quickley.

Nine of the 12 players acquired/signed/drafted by Leon Rose since he took over as team president are either CAA clients or former Kentucky players.

We were never going to be much this year.
But I have to wonder about not adding one new starter, not making any play at even one quality FA, and just hooking up CAA/Kentucky folks with Dolanbucks.

But, uh, is this all just a scam?

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 29, 2020, 03:29:45 PM
Burks is a starter, a sixth or seventh guy on a contender, but a starter and scorer for a team like us.

Mitch and Barrett are clear starters. That covers SG, SF, and C.

Randle, Obi, and Noel need to establish a pecking order through competition. We’re typically looking at PF being a Randle - Obi battle, but I don’t think there’s much difference between Randle and Noel’s outside game. Whatever post up or rebounding advantage Randle brings might be more than offset by Noel’s bounce, quickness, and Defense. If Obi can outperform both of those guys as a aggregate two-way player, he should start and we drafted very well. Mitch + Noel with Randle, Toppin, and Spellman as reserves might be the best look for us.

Payton, Frank, DSJ, Rivers, and Quickley are heading into a similar battle for minutes and precedence.

In Noel, Burks, and Rivers we brought in guys who excelled in limited roles for successful teams. If they were here as ballast to reprise their roles on a likely losing team, it would have taken more money to sign them. They took small salaries for the chance to earn expanded roles setting themselves up for paydays next year, either with us or someone else.

I can see MKG taking the Exhibit 10 if he doesn’t make the team to use Knicks staff and facilities to further his rehab and try to improve his offensive game. For a guy who’s had a fat contract already (assuming he hasn’t squandered it), it’s not a bad career move.
Title: Re: For What It's Worth
Post by: bankshot1 on November 29, 2020, 03:47:45 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 29, 2020, 09:28:31 AM
In reflecting upon Immanuel Quickley's combo/point creds....this is a VERY PROPITIOUS OMEN. 

Quickley is a drummer. 

In any jazz, rock or R&B ensemble that is worth a damn, the drummer is the rudder, the point guard of the ensemble: tune and tempo, pace and dynamics. 

https://www.kevinhaydenmedia.com/4-nba-players-who-also-play-drums/ (https://www.kevinhaydenmedia.com/4-nba-players-who-also-play-drums/)

Steph Curry
Donovan Mitchell
Vince Carter....are also drummers, and Carter, like Quickley, also plays saxophone. 

(https://s.yimg.com/uu/api/res/1.2/0Wi9PBIyRYudms2d5TkIpg--~B/aD00MDA7dz02MTg7YXBwaWQ9eXRhY2h5b24-/https://media.zenfs.com/en-US/thewrap.com/a6137782c6a1a260af924521b6875910)

There is something about being a drummer, being an improvising musician, where you learn to clean up after your mistakes, and those of your compatriots, which doesn't necessarily mean that wrong is right, but that not only one can learn from mistakes, but with experience, in the course of steadying the ship, one can literally divine chicken salad from chicken shit. 

And not unlike a point guard, no one knows how to tell the drummer what they want, but everyone knows when it is wrong.

Who is Ginger Baker?

Famous rock drummers for $200 Alex.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on November 29, 2020, 03:52:42 PM
Per Shams

Boston has signed and traded Gordon Hayward and two future second-round picks to Charlotte for a conditional future second-round pick. Celtics also receive a trade exception.

My Thanksgiving prayers have been answered!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 29, 2020, 04:02:41 PM
Nice save by Ainge. Boston can buy their way back into the pack of EC contenders if something juicy comes up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on November 29, 2020, 04:12:55 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 29, 2020, 04:02:41 PM
Nice save by Ainge. Boston can buy their way back into the pack of EC contenders if something juicy comes up.

Yup reportedly its about a $28MM TPE
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 29, 2020, 04:53:16 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 29, 2020, 02:16:42 PM
Quote
Kidd-Gilchrist represents the fifth player former Kentucky player on the Knicks, joining Julius Randle, Kevin Knox, Nerlens Noel and Immanuel Quickley.

Nine of the 12 players acquired/signed/drafted by Leon Rose since he took over as team president are either CAA clients or former Kentucky players.

We were never going to be much this year.
But I have to wonder about not adding one new starter, not making any play at even one quality FA, and just hooking up CAA/Kentucky folks with Dolanbucks.

But, uh, is this all just a scam?

As mentioned - Burks, Noel have a chance to start

And a deal could still be made.

But seems like '21-'22 is most important and Thibs may have to make do for a year.  My guess is he will do just fine - then put his indelible stamp on next year's team.
Title: Re: ???
Post by: carlos123 on November 29, 2020, 06:51:45 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on November 29, 2020, 01:19:51 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on November 29, 2020, 12:45:46 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on November 28, 2020, 10:58:16 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 28, 2020, 09:18:40 PM
Out of jail & back on tour! I might have been in your splash zone, Banks. Rudest thing I did all day was a low res animation.

Seems Pope Josh needed the last word after all.

He closed the Trump Forum with a final post chastising me for not being sufficiently rigorous in his faith, and not ascribing to his covid conspiracy theory.

Praise be

LMAO

What on earth you talking about?
Do I need to go back there and check it out?
I thought Chamaco had the exclusive on conspiracies.
What am I missing?

Carlos

Long  story.

Pope Josh I has a conspiracy theory that he was very upset I didn't ascribe to, and after giving me the last word that he mockingly said i would take anyway, (Pope Josh is a little thin-skinned) and after I used it, he locked the thread, and then severely chastised me for my inability to accept the world as a conspiracy theorists sees it. It was pretty funny.

I'm a heretic.

Dare I say exiled in Elba!

Ok, I went and tried to check it out.
Still way too much Chamaco Cartero and a couple similar posters, maybe Chamaco's alter egos?
FWIW, I find Josh's posts fair and well reasoned, so we disagree on that. Also, he's not a Pope and not thin-skinned.
I think you're also an ok guy, maybe a little hot-headed? But generally I also enjoy your posts.
So there!
Title: Another County Heard From
Post by: chipstern on November 29, 2020, 06:52:18 PM
We were never going to be much this year.
But I have to wonder about not adding one new starter, not making any play at even one quality FA, and just hooking up CAA/Kentucky folks with Dolanbucks.

But, uh, is this all just a scam?

As mentioned - Burks, Noel have a chance to start

And a deal could still be made.

But seems like '21-'22 is most important and Thibs may have to make do for a year.  My guess is he will do just fine - then put his indelible stamp on next year's team.

So, BOWd, exploiting relationships constitutes a scam?  And one has to wonder why we didn't add any starters or make any play at even one quality FA. 

Well....

Such a sour view. 

But hey, they hired Leon Rose and not BoD. 

In Bo's scheme of things....

* We draft a 3&D SF at #8 such as DA of Vassell.

* We sign Christian Wood and Fred Van Vleet as free agents, and/or, go ALL-IN FOR Gordon Hayward, because this is a Wing League, and hey, wouldn't it be smart of the Knicks to get a bonafide starter at the primary position in the modern game. 

FAIR ENOUGH? 

K.  The plurality of decision makers on the Knicks, lacking Bo's perspective, or least ways, not sharing it, were more enthusiastic about Obi Toppin than Haliburton, Vassell or Devi, manuevered a trade up for a possible trade down to grab him at #5, and freaked when he landed in our laps at #8.  Bo feels Obi is redundant and severely limited.  Duly noted. 

We'll come back to Obi, but as for whiffing on adding a bonafide starter or failing to make ANY PLAY on free agents, well, I'm not feeling you. 

Again, Wood at 3 X $42 Million was off the board once we drafted Toppin.  Fred Van Vleet, long a fave target of the cHipster [and did not Bo originally pooh pooh such enthusiasm, based on his suspicions that Fred was a product of a system, and not as good as I thought] was never [repeat, NEVER] looking to leave the Raptors, nor were the Raptors ever [repeat, EVER] going to let him go.  Were we going to outbid them, more to the point, would they let us, seeing as how they could offer an extra year. Nor did they have to, and 4 x $85 million would not have seemed outrageous, nor did the Raptors have to go above that, because nobody [repeat, NOBODY] was ever really in the hunt.

And the assertion that we didn't make a play for Hayward is disingenuous on Bo's part. 

Once it was plain that Gordon was in play, we most definitely were in the hunt, least ways that is what the smoke signals indicated.  And we were purportedly even willing to go to four years, but 4 X $120 million? 

Really, Bo. 

And who else should we have targetted?  Gallinari?  Montrel?  Bertrans 5 X $80 million.  We couldashoulda had Betrans, Chip. 

Bo disapproves of all our moves, and counts them as pathetic and half hearted at best, a scam at worst, and holds that we didn't get better, in fact, we got worse. 

K. 

A few final thoughts from this poor deluded patsy. 

You take a very dim view of Obi, and harp on the received wisdom that he is old, has a low ceiling, is a lousy defender....funny, I never heard anyone brag about what a great fucking defender and atheleted Bertrans was. 

You seem to overlook the fact that on the plus side--Obi DOES HAVE a plus side--he possesses great size, a terrific motor, and was the college player of the year, even with all of that sucking.  Perhaps because the voters were deceived by the was fact Obi was a scoring machine who could stretch the floor as a scoring 4 on the order of converting 39% of his 3-Pointers. 

In fact, while the Knicks were whiffing in every way, they did address a number of issues, while maintaining cap space and flexibility and setting up depth and competition at every position. 

Such, as, ohh, I don't know, addressing our woeful lack of a three point game last season. 

Obi and Immanuel, our two #1 picks, are both first rate three point shooters.  Likewise, Bo craves wings, but apparebtly discounts us re-upping 6'6" wing Reggie Bullock, who was coming off of neck surgery and not very effective from trey last year [.333%] but in terms of a snipers pedigree, going back to 2017-2018 with the Pistons drained 125-281 [.445% for those keeping score], and he is a good defender, so he can push RJ, if not supplant him. Likewise, the Knicks brought on 6'6" wing Alec Burks, who seemingly lacks pizazz to BoD, though in averaging 26 minutes a game for Godlen State/Philly last year, put up 15.0 ppg, with 4.3 boards and 2.9 assists, while converting 235-265 FTs [.887%], though I suppose I impress easily. 

Oh, and the other body in that trade, PF-C Omari Spellman, is only 23, and basically checks in at roughly 40% from trey and 80% from the FT line.  Clearly another scam. 

Oh, and Austin Rivers, didn't set the world on fire last season, but converted treys at a respectable .356% and upped his so-so free throw shooting to .703%, nothing to shout about, but second best of his career. 

So let's see: adding/re-adding Toppin, Quickley, Burks, Spellman, Rivers, Bullock to battle for minutes, all capable of stretching the floor. 

As for Randle and Knox and Smith, well, BoD has written them all off. 

So clearly, a woefully half hearted offseason at best, a cynical scam at worst. 

Why is Chip buying into this shit? 

I am happy we didn't engage in big splashy long term commitments.  We look to engage our youthful core of Robinson, Randle, Knox, Brazdeikis, Barrett, Smith, Ntilikina with some serious fucking competition from among others, first rounders Toppin and Quickley, let alone Noel. Payton, Rivers, Bullock, Burks, and Kidd-Gilchrist, all on make good one year deals, as our puppies enter the bell lap of the shit or get off the pot derby.

We were never going to be that good anyway, right Bo? 

So why is Chip looking forward to fierce compeition up and down the roster, while Bo is bewailing ALL OF OUR MOVES? 

Perhaps because for once we are taking the road less travelled, resisting the shiny objects, and not simply paying lip servive to youth.

Perhaps because I am looking forward to all of this clay being fashioned in the image of the maker's hand, as Thibs is tasked with creating a culture of defensive accountability, offensive efficiency, and the baby steps of a competitive culture forged in Tom's image. 

You beg to differ. 

Well, that's why they make menus. 

You are depressed.  While I am clearly out of my mind. 

As Kiid and Facil and others suggest, who knows what machinations reside in the heart of Leon Rose, but clearly, we have not seen the last of his moves, and given the crowded nature of our present roster, DEALS BECKON. 

But first....

THE FIRE. 

Forward into the breach, Knicks fans. 

(https://media.tenor.com/images/ef7b0973df5514ba678e23c280d5f6e1/tenor.gif)

So let it be written, so let it be done....

Title: The CAA mafia
Post by: carlos123 on November 29, 2020, 06:57:43 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 29, 2020, 02:16:42 PM
Quote
Kidd-Gilchrist represents the fifth player former Kentucky player on the Knicks, joining Julius Randle, Kevin Knox, Nerlens Noel and Immanuel Quickley.

Nine of the 12 players acquired/signed/drafted by Leon Rose since he took over as team president are either CAA clients or former Kentucky players.

We were never going to be much this year.
But I have to wonder about not adding one new starter, not making any play at even one quality FA, and just hooking up CAA/Kentucky folks with Dolanbucks.

But, uh, is this all just a scam?

It sure looks like it.
Just grateful the Dolanbucks are not my bucks.
How long will these people last? How many years before Dolan decides to switch gears yet again? 2 years?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 29, 2020, 07:03:09 PM
I heard from my cousin in Toronto who does the laundry for the grandniece of FVV's accountant that the Knicks were his first choice from the get-go, that he would have come here for 4 years 50 mil, and that he's still fuming that the phone never rang!
Title: Wally On Obi & Immanuel & Leon
Post by: chipstern on November 29, 2020, 07:31:45 PM
“They made sound financial decisions,’’ Szczerbiak said. “There’s risks if you were going for a big name like Russell Westbrook, [Gordon] Hayward. They’re getting up there in age. And they make a lot of money. Give them credit. They’ve done a good job to keep clear of throwing money at a big-name free agent on the downside of his career. That’s how you get in trouble.

“They’re keeping the floor open for young guys to grow and player development will be a big part with this coaching staff. They are building through the draft and building through youth.’’

https://nypost.com/2020/11/29/knicks-very-lucky-to-snag-obi-toppin-at-nba-draft-expert/ (https://nypost.com/2020/11/29/knicks-very-lucky-to-snag-obi-toppin-at-nba-draft-expert/)

“[Obi's] NBA-ready right now,’’ Szczerbiak told The Post. “He continued to get better every year. He’s a completely mature, physical specimen, an incredible athlete. He’s a capable outside shooter at the college level and it will translate to the NBA.”
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 29, 2020, 07:33:12 PM
In Bo's world most non ALL NBA free agents suck dick.  Bo also doesnt understand what a salary floor is and why it is important.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 29, 2020, 08:06:20 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 29, 2020, 07:33:12 PM
In Bo's world most non ALL NBA free agents suck dick.  Bo also doesnt understand what a salary floor is and why it is important.

Knicks fans have endured one false flag and mirage, one botched reboot after another, so the gap between expectations and reality is....often PAINFUL. 

And it is all too easy to get very....cynical. 

A regime change? 

Chcketts...Layden...Isiah...Donnie...Glenn...Mills....Phil...Mills...not surprising that Carlos projects another reboot two years hence.  Not that this is without precedent, is it? 

It just so happens this cautious, conservative reboot pleases me immensely.  Not all of our yute are destined to be here in 2021, 2022 and beyond, but in the short term, they are being nurtured...they are being challenged. 

But patience, prudence and a commitment to player development...caution with cap space and make good contracts...stockpiling draft picks...a clean sweep of management, scouts, coaches....A TOP TIER COACH WITH AN ACTUAL SYSTEM AND A REPUTATION FOR DEFENSE AND ACCOUNTABILITY. 

Free agency has consistently failed us over the past 20 years.  As has mortgaging the future and financial flex for a host of saviors who just didn't pan out. 

This coming week, Thibs starts working with individual players.  What's done is done, and I for one am psyched. 

But I can surely understand that some have a sense, yet again, of dashed expectations. 

Whereas my expectations are hopeful.

Onwards. 



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 29, 2020, 08:07:58 PM
Chip - Homer Wally doing what is right for his career.  Expert?  Since when?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 29, 2020, 09:35:25 PM
Since sometime after you emerged from the womb as a bitter turd.
Title: The phone never rang!
Post by: carlos123 on November 29, 2020, 09:54:57 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on November 29, 2020, 07:03:09 PM
I heard from my cousin in Toronto who does the laundry for the grandniece of FVV's accountant that the Knicks were his first choice from the get-go, that he would have come here for 4 years 50 mil, and that he's still fuming that the phone never rang!

He had it on mute

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/D1aa90e5bkVulzf7qVMusqtxu_Jr__7z2l9rr1vlVhkHDw5zodhFFC6oCxi3Cs4yr2dr5uvevYcnucfJyt2OliWDFUsm5e9Q0GJ1w_nxqI8hhKC1lJbgezOAJb0RucV348ocvS2akLIOfJDlgBcsWPAMcxRh0sOuVk-3M62mh3HHwn-PHWYL2DJkRzfMBTrwaj9mECfy6zjTDITDnnkEApKb9lqxidShwLuIxY5qvdLZxyLPTx73ocqtWV0D9zoxzC3XPyQfJWilBDSy50YpfL5CkoDxmUX2zwFhyd2EupEV-mdAbWrrjKTjmMDgfghZvSNA66VijQTSWUwv9XCZRIjFkZFfxy5b7h-lo5vH0DglqEWaKbCjOThqIyTlnCiZ_hnTkzBuLYAcH6bqxVMFPuWKDWGYpF4HXmfG1_4Cb4xGc7asdP9c39KhEw4M8to7Rk6mGWJl6ue2pafbuyjVAxXGxuLEvVehRbas_318BL03Kqt_OrMbqdCeAFqqCNTJLdglJxYaEwIFzIJiCoHxnY17iSL8gKyzWOQUCZzWx9IDffNTNYSvTZV-jTr85mTwZSB-VmqQWEzfGE6sIzVjMf-0MFzdbO7DjpDbjmacYV24qxPWRONESKw1NM2WgHu4AUzblyZ_6T9lhrKdATr3jGb8YuJCI-TY91BBapKTMX5Pf3pRS7c6VXbzHe2o=w640-h480-no?authuser=0)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 30, 2020, 12:45:41 AM
I was never interested in Haywire.
Too old, expensive and brittle for us.
Interesting fit on CHA.
I might have gone $20M on Gordy, but then again maybe not.
_____________________________________________________________________________________

Bogdanovich was a legit target and ATL got him for $18M per.
Once the MIL deal fell through it was rather likely SAC wasn't matching a decent offer and ATL pounced.
Since we never have a legit starting PG, Bog's ballhandling and passing would come in handy.  And of course we need the sniping.
Burks, Rivers, Bullock -- all journeymen on cheapo deals.  But still add up to $10M or so.
If any of them start for us, it's a front office failure.
Burks passes as much as RJB.  there's an opening for Au Revoir since he has some handles and can make some plays.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________

Noel could start over Mitch.
I don't think that makes much sense, unless you want Obi & Mitch to develop 2nd unit chemistry.
Some predict OBiT to be rook of the year, but that's partly due to most other rooks being 19 and folks focusing on O.
Just seems to me we drafted the next ... Julius Randle.

But Mitch & Noel together?  Maybe on an end of quarter possession to get a stop.
Too duplicative and with RJB and maybe Elf/JrSmith/Franc out there, we'd have zero shooting.
Not gonna happen.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________

Since we were doing nada with our cap space we coulda dropped a $25M starting year offer, with $1M descents, on FVV. 
An extra $12M with $6M upfront and his own team to run.  FVV woulda spent a long weekend pondering.
_________________________________________________________________________

Drafting OBI, adding Bogdan or FVV woulda made sense.
Drafting a wing would have given us more options.
Seems like it would have been a very different team had we drafted Avdija and added Bogdan as a FA.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 30, 2020, 01:55:55 AM
Looks like Covid is wreaking havoc on the NFL.

DEN didn't have any QB's available.
SF can't play home games for a few weeks.
Some teams have over a dozen players out due to the virus.

How is the NBA going to do better?
Smaller teams, but more travel and more games.
Title: NBA COVID PROTOCOLS
Post by: Kam on November 30, 2020, 02:14:33 AM

All teams will designate up to 45 people as their Tier 1 group, including players, coaches, training staff and more. That group will be prohibited from accessing any areas used for business operations (e.g. conference rooms) and will not be allowed to interact in person with Tier 3 individuals like facility operations personnel.

Traveling parties for NBA teams on the road are limited to 45 people as well, and that will be expected to “minimize risks to manage their health and enhance that of all individuals involved in the 2020-21 season.”
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 30, 2020, 03:32:40 AM
Batum waived by CHA and joining LAC.
He's a really smart all-around player, but injuries have crippled him.

I'm sure he's glad he didn't get dumped on to the Knix,
Though I assume the plan would have been to flip him to a payoff team before the deadline.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 30, 2020, 03:42:35 AM
45 people a lot to manage.
They are going to interact with family, friends, strippers, etc.
And be in close contact with each other.

At least there are likely significantly fewer Trump supporters in the NBA, so that reduces the number of the defiantly reckless.  But young athletes are going to feel invincible and be careless at times.

I assume the NBA is taking notes on what the NFL is doing right/wrong.
But this still feels like a huge challenge for 72 games with lots of travel spread across 6 months.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 30, 2020, 03:47:19 AM
There will most likely be a number of games postponed/re-scheduled because of clusters of positive results hitting teams from time to time.  The NBA will do a better job than the other sports leagues.  They are the gold standard.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 30, 2020, 03:59:53 AM
Btw, the Zach Lowe article on FA winners/losers is on ESPN as both a paid and free article.
Free link: https://www.espn.com/espn/story/_/id/30386137/nba-free-agency-winners-losers-wild-week
I meant to post that Friday.
He thinks Knick fans should be pleased that we flipped Ed Davis for 2nd rounders.

In fairness to Leon Rose and the CAA team, they didn't have too much time to take over and evaluate the team, and so maybe went with a Do No Harm, and Pay off Your Clients approach, simply because they didn't know what to do yet.

I still think completely punting this off-season is a failure the Knix couldn't afford.
An incremental, adding one starter approach would have been better.
Give me $18M Bodanovich and a draft pick and filler vet journeyman, and I'd be on board.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 30, 2020, 04:26:32 AM
Maybe the key is how soon will NBA players and fellow travelers get vaccinated?

If they can get inoculated in December or January, things should be relatively easy.
The NBA can stress that they need players to be ultra-careful for just one or two months, and that a failure could jeopardize the season and their salaries.  The vaccines need two shots 2 or 3 weeks apart.  So I would be surprised if everyone was all anti-bodied up any time before Feb 1, though it could happen. 
Title: The BoD Chronicles: Punting In Free Agency [Stud Vs. Dud--A Tale Of The Tape]
Post by: chipstern on November 30, 2020, 07:48:42 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 30, 2020, 03:59:53 AM
Btw, the Zach Lowe article on FA winners/losers is on ESPN as both a paid and free article.
Free link: https://www.espn.com/espn/story/_/id/30386137/nba-free-agency-winners-losers-wild-week
I meant to post that Friday.
He thinks Knick fans should be pleased that we flipped Ed Davis for 2nd rounders.

In fairness to Leon Rose and the CAA team, they didn't have too much time to take over and evaluate the team, and so maybe went with a Do No Harm, and Pay off Your Clients approach, simply because they didn't know what to do yet.

I still think completely punting this off-season is a failure the Knix couldn't afford.
An incremental, adding one starter approach would have been better.
Give me $18M Bodanovich and a draft pick and filler vet journeyman, and I'd be on board.

a]  Rose converted Ed Davis into a 2023 second round pick from Utah, AND THEN FLIPPED HIM to Minny for a 2026 second rounder AND Jacob Evans and Omari Spellman.  I believe there might even be a third second rounder floating around in there as well. 

b] I like Bogdonavich...good wing.  He is 28.  Four seasons x $18 million.  Alec Burks is 29.  One season x $6 million.

Both 6'6" wings. 

Bogs is CLEARLY superior in your estimation, right, and you would have been pleased as punch to pencil him in as a starter, whereas if Burks wins starter minutes, that is an indictment of our pathetic team direction, right?  That IS what you said, right?  Don't want to misquote you. 

Let's take a peek at their 2019-2020 seasons, just for giggles. 

BB [Kings]: Over 29 Minutes, 15.1 ppg, 3.4 boards, 3.4 assists, 1.0 steals, .741 FT%, .372 3Pt%

AB [Warriors/Sixers]:  Over 26.6 Minutes, 15.0 ppg, 4.3 boards, 2.9 assists, 0.9 steals, .887 FT%, .385 3Pt%

So, is it possible that Rose & Company were gun shy about making a a pricy four year commitment to BB, tantamount to a tacit admission that Kevin Knox AND RJ Barrett were no longer priorities or capable of competing for starters' minutes going forward.  Burks can challenge both Kevin and RJ, and we can revisist our commitments to him in the summer of 2021 (likewise Bullock and Brazdeikis), while EVALUATING THE PROGRESS of KK and Ruth Bader Barrett. 

Competion?  Roster Depth?  Improved Long Range Shooting? 

But in your estimation, we punted on the offseason, as BB is a total stud and AB is a worthless dud. 

CHECK
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 30, 2020, 09:49:48 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 30, 2020, 03:32:40 AM
Batum waived by CHA and joining LAC.
He's a really smart all-around player, but injuries have crippled him.

I'm sure he's glad he didn't get dumped on to the Knix,
Though I assume the plan would have been to flip him to a payoff team before the deadline.

Was certainly an option.  Not sure CHA wanted any of our castoffs (Knox, Frank).  And Batum's effectiveness for us would have been tied mostly to court time -  .  Not sure there is much of that court time available given our roster.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 30, 2020, 09:55:51 AM
So, is it possible that Rose & Company were gun shy about making a a pricy four year commitment to BB, tantamount to a tacit admission that Kevin Knox AND RJ Barrett were no longer priorities or capable of competing for starters' minutes going forward.  Burks can challenge both Kevin and RJ, and we can revisist our commitments to him in the summer of 2021 (likewise Bullock and Brazdeikis), while EVALUATING THE PROGRESS of KK and Ruth Bader Barrett.


Not at all sure why you included Barrett in this passage

Burks as a guy we keep after this year?  Could be if he shines.  Knicks collecting options, which is a good thing - though I am not sure it ties in with Bogdanovic.  That may even have been a quick conversation, Knicks management with Bogdan's agent, that particular option evaporating quickly.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 30, 2020, 10:24:29 AM
Looking over some numbers - and adjusting a little from past thoughts -

My current Knicks ten man rotation

Payton/Smith
Barrett/Rivers
Burks/Bullock
Randle/Toppin
Robinson/Noel

(Frank, Quicks, Knox, Braz, Omari)

(Theo P, Evans, Powell)

Begs the thought - are we the only NBA team with just the one token white guy?
Title: Two Time Slim
Post by: chipstern on November 30, 2020, 10:25:12 AM
Hey, BoDiddley.  Y'all too, LesterDawg. 

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/DhpRAe0YGeY/hqdefault.jpg)

Not sure this'll raise or lower your expecations 'bout our Knicks going forward, but it might just....well, you tell me. 

Johnny Otis as TWO TIME SLIM, the "High Sheriff Sent From Hell...."  with his son Shuggie Otis, a precocious old soul, playing some profound slide guitar in this admixture of the hard blues and well, you tell me, 'cause Slim sure be signifying in the street jargon of the joint, certainly a precursor to gangsta rap, from long ago and not so damn far away. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1Z_bYPT7F8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1Z_bYPT7F8) 

"But I want you to excuse me for being so bold, but I'm the type of son-of-a-bitch that crawl over fifty good pussies to get to one fat boy's asshole..."   

DISCUSS AMONGST YOURSELVES. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 30, 2020, 10:32:58 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 30, 2020, 10:24:29 AM
Looking over some numbers - and adjusting a little from past thoughts -

My current Knicks ten man rotation

Payton/Smith
Barrett/Rivers
Burks/Bullock
Randle/Toppin
Robinson/Noel

(Frank, Quicks, Knox, Braz, Omari)

(Theo P, Evans, Powell....and HARPER)

Begs the thought - are we the only NBA team with just the one token white guy?

Sorry homes, but Theo Pinson AND Jared Harper BOTH have TWO WAY CONTRACTS.

Jury out on Kidd-Gilschrist.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 30, 2020, 10:34:49 AM
Hmmmm....

knew I forgot someone, but two?

Are we at TWENTY?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 30, 2020, 10:37:47 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 30, 2020, 10:34:49 AM
Hmmmm....

knew I forgot someone, but two?

Are we at TWENTY?

Pinson, Powell, Evans, Harper [AND Kidd] makes 20. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 30, 2020, 10:48:33 AM
Might wonder why GS traded Alec Burks for some 2nd rounders.

Or why Burks played for 5 teams the last 2 years . . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 30, 2020, 11:06:07 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 30, 2020, 10:48:33 AM
Might wonder why GS traded Alec Burks for some 2nd rounders.

Or why Burks played for 5 teams the last 2 years . . .

There you go. 

Dawg told me he beat his wife. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on November 30, 2020, 11:15:58 AM
Chip

Thanks for posting  Two-time Slim that was some good stuff- I'm not sure what that bad ass got to do with the knicks, other than indirectly asking Bo D's question, "who do you love" and I know you love the knicks. But I loves me some slide guitar so sharp it cut through a driving Monday morning east coat rain.  Went well with my coffee, good pluck

Title: If I bring back butter, I shoulda bought lard.
Post by: lesterluv on November 30, 2020, 11:42:02 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 30, 2020, 09:55:51 AM
That may even have been a quick conversation, Knicks management with Bogdan's agent, that particular option evaporating quickly.

Really? You think we had conversations with anyone? My understanding from Bo is that Leon didn't use his phone at all...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 30, 2020, 11:47:23 AM
Might wonder why GS traded Alec Burks for some 2nd rounders.


In last place - thats what you do with vets on one year deals

Wanna ask why GS didn't sign him back at 6 mil?  That would make more sense as an angle.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 30, 2020, 11:51:35 AM
Or why Burks played for 5 teams the last 2 years . . .


Burks didnt earn his keep at the Utah (big contract) salary level - though his floor game was quite solid (shooting was inconsistent)

The stroke has certainly improved quite nicely since.

Any leadership skills?  Don't know - but experience itself does count for something.
Title: Re: the low-bar- rider
Post by: Jack Straw on November 30, 2020, 01:15:48 PM
It will help the FO and Thibs as well,  that the bar for this season is so low - Vegas has the Knicks at 22.5 wins, worst in the NBA w/Cleveland.  So any improvement on that will have everyone blueskying it, and fair enough I guess.

In this regard it will allow Thibs to hopefully be true to himself, bury himself in the lab and see what diabolical avant garde experiments and,  more importantly,  results he can come up with...

so I guess time is on the Knicks side...but not the fans side, especially the old ones...

a few days ago my 21 yo son asked me  "do you ever think the Knicks will ever not totally suck?"  hard to say really - faith vs. reason ....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 30, 2020, 01:20:21 PM
UTA, CLE, SAC, GS and PHI all in two seasons.
GSW and PHI both had him last year, both needed to fill out playoff rosters, and both took on pass on keeping Burks. 

Quote
The stroke has certainly improved quite nicely since.

In the playoffs for PHI last year, Burks had a particularly brutal shooting series: 33% FG & 19% on 3's.  Jacked 49 shots in 95 minutes off the bench.
Which probably explains why he wasn't welcomed back to Philly.

He's shot between 40% FG and 41% FG each of the last 6 years.
A low percentage gunner who doesn't do much on defense.

That nicely improved stroke ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 30, 2020, 01:23:07 PM
 My bad in trusting you to analyze numbers

Peace.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 30, 2020, 01:29:08 PM
Your bad in providing the usual unsupported BS.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 30, 2020, 01:33:39 PM
I didn't provide the numbers.  This isn't the kids table.  Anyone on this board should be able to access Burks career figures.

Let me ask

Do you have Burks as solid addition, possible effective contributor or scrubbini waste?

Pick one.

(He won't.  He's incapable)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 30, 2020, 01:43:58 PM
kiid: The stroke has certainly improved quite nicely since.

Reality: Burks shot between 40% FG and 41% FG each of the last 6 years.

Why post unsubstantiated crapola?
Why cry when someone actually posts the numbers to disprove your assertion?

I have no idea how Burks will be used.
Maybe he'll have a Rodney Hood breakout year out of nowhere.
Likely not.  POR has a nicely structured team, even Melo fit in well there.

I prefer Rivers, who has some ballhandling ability, and Bullox who plays better D and doesn't need many shots to Burks jacking routine.  I'd probably go with scrubbini, but should be better than Ellington (another player I never cared for).
Really, I'd prefer Dotson, and think Burks is around his level, able to show flashes but not consistency.  If Burks starts, we're in trouble, and he'll lead the team in FGA's unless Thibs directs otherwise.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 30, 2020, 01:53:57 PM
Bingo - cant answer.  But acts the expert.

heh

I wont clue Bo in on the "evidence" on Burks improvement.  Someone else can if they wish.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 30, 2020, 02:04:24 PM
Alec Burks earned 3.7 win shares last year between his stops in GS and Philly

The Knicks had exactly ONE player above this total.  That includes Morris.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on November 30, 2020, 03:22:56 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 30, 2020, 02:04:24 PM
Alec Burks earned 3.7 win shares last year between his stops in GS and Philly

The Knicks had exactly ONE player above this total.  That includes Morris.

I would think he was involved in more winning game opportunities as well. No?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 30, 2020, 04:54:10 PM
Burks upped his 3 pt attempts, percentages, and consequently his number of 3s made per game in each of the last 3 years, upping his EFG in the process even as his usage increased.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 01, 2020, 12:10:44 AM
Actually I gave a detailed answer on how I see Burks, compared him to other players we have, and even picked one of your three choices despite having very limited info on how he'll be used.   But still you choose to be an insufferable ass about it, as is often the case.

It's always amusing how kiid tells people what to do here, treats people as his secretary, and then offers up cryptic crap as though he's in on some secret.  It might surprise you that people see you very different than your self-image.

Simple Q anyone can have a crack at:
Why do you think 5 teams passed along/passed on Burks the past 2 years?
There must be a reason ...
Title: Bad Bo
Post by: carlos123 on December 01, 2020, 12:48:17 AM
BoZ, you’re being too rational for Chamaco.
It don’t work that way with him 😜
True trumpians minds work in mysterious ways ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 01, 2020, 03:11:49 AM
Burks got traded for Korver early in his career when the Jazz needed vets for their playoff run. Mitchell was already in the picture I believe.

Burks got traded from Cleveland to Sacramento as part of the deal that sent Shump to Houston. In addition to Players the Cavs got a first and a second in that deal.

The tanking Dubs where he signed as a free agent sent him to Philly for 3 second rounders so he could help their playoff push, which he did.

On the one hand you could say teams were dumping him, on the other hand you could say that other teams kept making offers too good to refuse for his services.

In a perfect world, our homegrown talent matures and gels into a world beating starting five, Mitch Obi Kevin RJ Frank. In the meantime, we need competent and capable vets. Burks fits the description. Our capable and competent vet lineup looks at the moment like Noel Randle Bullock Burks Payton. Those two units are now the guts of the team.

I can see Spellman MKG Iggy Quickley Rivers rounding out the lineup after camp cut downs.

DSJ and Jacob Evans don’t make the cut, though I wouldn’t put it past DSJ to beat out Rivers for the 15th spot. That’s a benefit of only giving him the first year guaranteed.

Mitch Noel Spellman
Obi Randle MKG
Knox Bullock Iggy
RJ Burks Quickley
Frank Payton AR or DSJ
Title: Plan Or Pain [TRAINING CAMP TUESDAY]
Post by: chipstern on December 01, 2020, 06:55:12 AM
Well, Leon is on the clock.

And TT is tasked with making a savory stew pot of paella from a very on the fly assemblage of ingredients. 

According to some things I gleaned from the POST, always a fairly iffy source, so take it for what it is worth...

Leon was ALL IN on trading for Chris Paul.

But, Chris' desire to be closer to his son in Los Angeles was a significant factor, and apparently the projection of strutting his stuff before 20,000 empty seats in the world's most famous arena did not appeal to him. 

Leon also apparently REALLY wanted Carmelo, which, if I might channel my own inner BoD, seems a grotesque notion, when you are trying to prioritize the development of key youth at PF and SF such as Obi, Kevin and RJ.  Thanks to the Lawd Portland made that a moot point. 

[A MOOT POINT being how one might characterize our backcourt]

Finally, that FVV did not give the Knicks the time of day or even show the barest hint of titty, to least ways, as Bo suggested, drive up his Raptor price, would seem to obviate the notion that our pursuit was half hearted at best, negligent at worst.  WE NEVER HAD A FUCKING PRAYER. 

The fact that this was NEVER on the table, might explain the implementation of Plans B & C.  That Leon respected the input of Aller and Perrin, as well as Wesley and Callipari, is comforting as we approach our cyberpandemic training camp.   

GRAIN OF SALT...

There was another interesting TIDBIT in the POST's reporting. 

“They took a conservative approach by signing one-year, stopgap players,’’ ESPN’s cap guru and former Nets assistant GM Bobby Marks told The Post. “This is a huge year for RJ [Barrett], [Kevin] Knox and Obi from a development stage. It’s important for the young kids to develop this season. That will be the draw to free agents.”

So....there is THAT.  Tell me about the Rabbits, Leon. 

Now, that we have been over the Knicks draft and personnel decisions with a fine tooth comb...clearly, the X-Factor moving forward, is how Iron Chef Salad Bar TOM THIBODEAU proceeds, and how he empowers Assistant Coach and Player Development gurus Kenny Payne and Johnnie Bryant. 

One can see him signing off on Obi and Immanuel...it remains to be seen, based on useage and open competition, how much input actually had or trust he subsequently confers on veterans such as Randle, Payton, Noel, Rivers, Burks, Bullock and Gilchrist, contrasted with the toss the into the deep end of the pool developmental efficacy of Robinson, Toppin, Knox and RJ a clear and present priority, and to a lesser extent, Brazdeikis, Spellman, Ntiliknia and Smith. 

We've seen how Rose responded to the draft and free agency, and now we will see how he responds to input from Thibs and his mix and match, youth v. placeholders roster, and how the Knicks might respond going forward in the way of possible trades. 

Stay tuned.  At least now we have some scrimmages and games to contemplate.  ONWARDS. 
Title: Peaceful Co-Existence
Post by: chipstern on December 01, 2020, 10:10:36 AM
As much as BoD and I joust on the fortuitous fortunes and lack thereof of our New YORK Knicks, we have long had a bond on music...

So in the interests of finding things we can align on....and given how moved advanced carbon based lifeforms such as the Banker and the Dawg might be, I will make some regular postings on progressive music that they and the Shanghai Handicapper might find more inspiring than the collected works of Leon Rose. 

(https://img.discogs.com/36YyhU-8f9BJ_oZduWgCT7CZiB0=/fit-in/600x601/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-864055-1522569993-6559.jpeg.jpg)

"Mendacity" 

Great performances from vocalist and then Missus Roach, Abbey Lincoln, and saxophonist Eric Dolphy, capped off by a LeBron-scaled drum feature for Max Roach.  All men are NOT created equal. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmfJjq63Eyk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmfJjq63Eyk)



Title: Re: Peaceful Co-Existence
Post by: chipstern on December 01, 2020, 10:12:03 AM
Quote from: chipstern on December 01, 2020, 10:10:36 AM
As much as BoD and I joust on the fortuitous fortunes and lack thereof of our New YORK Knicks, we have long had a bond on music...

So in the interests of finding things we can align on....and given how moved advanced carbon based lifeforms such as the Banker and the Dawg might be, I will make some regular postings on progressive music that they and the Shanghai Handicapper might find more inspiring than the collected works of Leon Rose. 

(https://img.discogs.com/36YyhU-8f9BJ_oZduWgCT7CZiB0=/fit-in/600x601/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-864055-1522569993-6559.jpeg.jpg)

"Mendacity" 

Great performances from vocalist and then Missus Roach, Abbey Lincoln, and saxophonist Eric Dolphy, capped off by a LeBron-scaled drum feature for Max Roach.  All men are NOT created equal. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmfJjq63Eyk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmfJjq63Eyk)

In the final daze of Trump, this might prove a comforting screed to Brother Facil. 

(https://img.discogs.com/lMD-Xd2h860f6nd8olBsVv1oMMw=/400x542/smart/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/A-229498-1219959648.jpeg.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 01, 2020, 11:02:18 AM
I'd have been fine with Melo in place of Burks, Chip.

And this is how it works - next guy up if we miss,

Thus I still see Westbrook potentially in our future after missing on CP3.  Keep an eye on how things start out in HOU, who I am pulling for.  Their first fixit move will be sending Russ or Harden out, seeing how the team looks with the one left over, Tucker, Gordon, Wood, House, G Green, DeMarcus, KMart Jr and other pieces - and the new coach with less drama around him.

(Adding a Spellman, a Knox, maybe a Brazdekis would make some sense for HOU)

How Elfrid fires early is also important as he or Dennis would likely be part of the deal going back.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 01, 2020, 11:07:00 AM
Stay tuned.  At least now we have some scrimmages and games to contemplate.  ONWARDS.


TEN DAYS til Detroit.  Will MSG even televise?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 01, 2020, 11:10:18 AM
I may be the ultimate optimist but every year a team slated to be poor runs out 20-25-30 games early of eye-popping...........winning

Could the KNICKS be the "bad team" this year to sprint out 15-12 or so?  HUNGER, simmering of talent and the respect (from players and league) of competent coaching says we certainly could

(I will yay or nay this when I see how we look next weekend of course)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 01, 2020, 11:11:06 AM
And yes - preseason wins count for little but let me be the first to say....

2-2 or bust!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 01, 2020, 11:25:32 AM
Chip, you should drop some musical thoughts into the Music forum here now and then.
I like Max Roach but adore Abbey Lincoln.
Great career, socially engaged, was even an actress, and did some of her best work late in her career.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 01, 2020, 11:43:16 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 01, 2020, 11:25:32 AM
Chip, you should drop some musical thoughts into the Music forum here now and then.
I like Max Roach but adore Abbey Lincoln.
Great career, socially engaged, was even an actress, and did some of her best work late in her career.

But Bo, I ONLY HAVE EYES FOR YOU. 

I have now over the past few days been made aware of a Trump Forum and a Music Forum in the suburbs of Elba. 

Considering how much of what little time I have remaining on Planet Earth I spend on the Elba Knicks Forum, not to mention my FACEBOOK feed [a geriatric bingo hall for baby boomers], tempt me not. 

I'll just drop the odd musical bon mot here and again. 

*
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 01, 2020, 12:26:48 PM
One can only imagine the effect a Chipstern would have on the masses at Trump Administration.  Boring it would not be.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 01, 2020, 12:38:17 PM
The trump administration is a charnel pit being picked over by mangy scavengers. The actual misadministration, not the forum. The forum has some of the best cracker kicking in the lower forty eight. The constant piglet squeals of Kid and Red are its sweet sweet music.

I enjoyed “Mendacity”. The horn section after the first verse caught the energy of our darling Kid frantically spinning some bullshit together as it falls apart in front of him, the flailing of a mind as leaky as a trump diaper. Masterful musical work.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 01, 2020, 12:39:43 PM
Tom Westerholm: Danny Ainge acknowledges that Gordon Hayward wanted to be involved in the offense a little more. He makes it clear that Hayward is unselfish and wasn’t asking for 25 ppg. “He made sacrifices to try to give us a better chance of winning.” – via Twitter Tom_NBA

But Brad said, "The brothers gotta get theirs first"
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 01, 2020, 12:42:37 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 01, 2020, 12:39:43 PM
Tom Westerholm: Danny Ainge acknowledges that Gordon Hayward wanted to be involved in the offense a little more. He makes it clear that Hayward is unselfish and wasn’t asking for 25 ppg. “He made sacrifices to try to give us a better chance of winning.” – via Twitter Tom_NBA

But Brad said, "The brothers gotta get theirs first"

A cracker is squealing here as well.

Shut up and eat your mayonnaise Kid, you pasty fuck.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 01, 2020, 12:49:02 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 01, 2020, 11:02:18 AM
I'd have been fine with Melo in place of Burks, Chip.

And this is how it works - next guy up if we miss,

Thus I still see Westbrook potentially in our future after missing on CP3.  Keep an eye on how things start out in HOU, who I am pulling for.  Their first fixit move will be sending Russ or Harden out, seeing how the team looks with the one left over, Tucker, Gordon, Wood, House, G Green, KMart Jr and other pieces - and the new coach with less drama around him.

(Adding a Spellman, a Knox, maybe a Brazdekis would make some sense for HOU)

How Elfrid fires early is also important as he or Dennis would likely be part of the deal going back.

Disagree. 

No surprise there.

Why? 

Oh, I don't know, Melo's EGO.  Think he would be prepared to accept a bench role on the Knicks, where even his diminished skills still would trump those, so to speak, of a Kevin Knox. 

He would NEVER ACCEPT A ROLE on the Knicks, whereas in Portland, the chemistry of the team, and how they welcomed him into their culture...that and how Melo had essentially been blackballed out of the league, led him to accept an elder statesmen role in an established culture, where it made sense, AND HE ACCEPTED, the role of a second unit scoring machine, to kick ass on the other team's scrubeenies. 

Burks is younger and more pliant, and while NO ONE would ever confuse his skillset for Melo's, even late in Anthony's life cycle, Alec is a career role player with a skillset that the Knicks want in this transitional year, that of a three point sniper. 

On the Trailblzers, Melo accepts his role.  On the Knicks, he would not go softly into the good night, but would assert his priorities.  With all due respect, FUCK MELO. 

Now CHRIS PAUL was a different case, and the rational for bringing him on made sense, if not DOLLARS AND SENSE.  But the pandemic and an empty arena queered that every bit as much as the more evolved/advanced state of the Suns talents, his relationship with Coach Williams, and proximity to his son. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 01, 2020, 12:52:25 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 01, 2020, 12:42:37 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 01, 2020, 12:39:43 PM
Tom Westerholm: Danny Ainge acknowledges that Gordon Hayward wanted to be involved in the offense a little more. He makes it clear that Hayward is unselfish and wasn’t asking for 25 ppg. “He made sacrifices to try to give us a better chance of winning.” – via Twitter Tom_NBA

But Brad said, "The brothers gotta get theirs first"

A cracker is squealing here as well.

Shut up and eat your mayonnaise Kid, you pasty fuck.

Whoa Nellie, don't disparage Hellman's in front of the C[h]IPSTER. 

I think you would find MIRACLE WHIP a more suitable, and Goyish, metaphor. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 01, 2020, 12:59:23 PM
Kid will eat anything he can visualize as spooge straight from trump’s diseased penis.

Kemba is an elf on the shelf till January on account of a rusty knee. Is Brad ready to give the keys to Marcus Smart? I think he should.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 01, 2020, 01:04:24 PM
Kemba is an elf on the shelf till January on account of a rusty knee. Is Brad ready to give the keys to Marcus Smart? I think he should.


Pritchard will play quite a bit

Hoping to not look silly with Quickley
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on December 01, 2020, 01:05:33 PM
I know this isn't the crowd to seek sympathy, nor do I, but the Celts have been snake-bit the last few years with injuries to key players.

They'll get by, but damn...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 01, 2020, 01:13:33 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on December 01, 2020, 01:05:33 PM
I know this isn't the crowd to seek sympathy, nor do I, but the Celts have been snake-bit the last few years with injuries to key players.

They'll get by, but damn...

Hey, Isiah sacrificed for the Celtics, and paid for it with his career. 

Red Auerbach was the favorite of Yahweh for many a moon, but his luck changed with Len Bias and Reggie Lewis. 

Kyrie Irving?

Gordon Hayward?

Kemba?

They went ALL IN on the SHINY OBJECTS.

Whereas when they GREW THEIR OWN, as I would hope Leon Rose commits to (so far, so good), with Tatum and Brown and Smart, they hit it out of the fucking park. 

I have read on the rumor circuit that they have been exploring the market for Smart, which...baffled me. 

I mean, as a Knick?  Peace be still.

I would sell my mother to Hamas for Marcus Smart.

Fortuneately, she passed away ten years ago, so kind of a one sided deal. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 01, 2020, 01:15:08 PM
Abbey Lincoln - The Story Of My Father (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60AjO0WSG3E) from her terrific 1992 album Devil's Got Your Tongue.
Great song, and that's the Staples Singers on backup vocals.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 01, 2020, 01:29:58 PM
I know this isn't the crowd to seek sympathy, nor do I, but the Celts have been snake-bit the last few years with injuries to key players.


And poor drafts - heh

Even this one - where they get 2 pretty good players - as we know Celts tried like hell to deal up.

You were able to sell the #30 at least.  Congrats to Danny on the cash.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 01, 2020, 01:41:21 PM
Smart is just 26 this year

PER on the rise.

Not unlike Austin Rivers.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on December 01, 2020, 03:46:24 PM
Chip-I don't think Hamas is that picky .

I wasn't going back to the days of Bias and Lewis, but you're right in general the Celts have usually been home-grown (but Ainge did get KG). But even Red would go off the reservation and bring back key pieces, like Bailey Howell, Wayne Embry, Charlie Scott  Parrish, DJ to enhance his teams.  The guy was a genuis. I got to speak to him once, it was a book signing on a rainy day in the mid '70s, and I was about the only person in the store and he tolerated my questions. Finally he said to me, "so kid are you going to buy a book?  I wasn't expecting to, but I did and he signed it. Red got me for $10.

But re kyrie, Gordo, Kemba, I may be wearing emarald tinted shades, but if Gordo and Kemba weren't playing hurt against the HEAT, they would have won the ECF. And they would have played the Lakers tough. Spilled milk.

In any case, with Kemba on shaky knees a trade of Smart, who's on a real good contract, seems out of place unless they do something HUGE. I'm not a capoligist and NBA accounting is incomprehensible at best, but maybe by trading Smart (for at least 2 1s) and creating more cap space, they could then trade for a stud at guard using the $28MM TPE.

I hope they don't trade him, he's a blast to watch (most of the time) as posted before he's an acquired taste, like single-malt scotch.

I could see the Celts give a fair amount of PT to the recent draft classes to see what they have and what they might contribute in the post-season, before using that TPE.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 01, 2020, 04:11:17 PM
Those who want Smart on the Knicks also loved when we had JR "Knucksie" Smith.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 01, 2020, 04:39:56 PM
Ian Begley: Nets star Kevin Durant said John Wall “looked amazing to me, he looked great” when he and Wall played together during the offseason. – via Twitter IanBegley

yep
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 01, 2020, 05:49:03 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 01, 2020, 04:11:17 PM
Those who want Smart on the Knicks also loved when we had JR "Knucksie" Smith.

Do you fuck your racist mother with that mouth?

I only ask because you’ve made it clear you are a dickless wonder.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 01, 2020, 05:58:05 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 01, 2020, 05:49:03 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 01, 2020, 04:11:17 PM
Those who want Smart on the Knicks also loved when we had JR "Knucksie" Smith.

Do you fuck your racist mother with that mouth?

I only ask because you’ve made it clear you are a dickless wonder.

Thanks, Facil. 

That WAS Vile, even by Kiid's elevated standards. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 01, 2020, 06:07:01 PM
SMH
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 01, 2020, 06:46:59 PM
Comic.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 01, 2020, 06:57:47 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 01, 2020, 06:46:59 PM
Comic.

Yes, characterizing Marcus Smart as a coon is the last word in wit. 

I wouldn't piss down your throat if your stomach was on fire. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 01, 2020, 07:04:10 PM
What?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 01, 2020, 07:05:24 PM
Is Knucksie a racist term?  Can't you be a white knucklehead?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 01, 2020, 08:27:47 PM
I too am confused what was said. 
Title: Is Chamaco a racist?
Post by: carlos123 on December 01, 2020, 09:01:47 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 01, 2020, 08:27:47 PM
I too am confused what was said.

Me too.

But recently Chamaco did complain that the Knicks had ONLY ONE TOKEN WHITE PLAYER. That was indeed racist and nobody called him out on that one. I thought about doing it myself and then decided that was just run of the mill for him, so didn't bother.

Now, why is Chamaco implying that Smart is a knucklehead? Care to explain, Chamaco?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 01, 2020, 09:19:38 PM
Just a good amount of technical fouls (as high as 1 in 8 games over the years).  I guess it was a cheap shot - my bad.  MS not always in control, is all.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 02, 2020, 12:04:46 AM
Marcus Smart compared to Austin Rivers and JR Smith = drunk posting?
Or some other impairment.

Smart makes plays.  And a guy putting out that much effort and emotion ups the team intensity.
Thibs would love to Get Smart!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 02, 2020, 05:39:31 AM
Word from Thibs is he wants a 9 or 10 guy rotation so of the 20 guys at camp, half won’t play. Of the non playing half, another half won’t make the main roster. He’s set up a nice competitive structure with two halvings before the regular season starts. Rotation or not, then in the rotation starter or not while non rotation guys fight to stay on the bus. He’s looking for guys in great shape playing hard and smart thinking team first. His staff is assembled to teach the players how to get headed there. Thibs will ultimately assess if they are reaching those goals.

We’ve got the four levels; Starter, reserve, bench, minors or gone. I think there are 4 positions to divide players into as they compete for those spots; center, forward, wing, and point guard.

The lineup will probably take one of each plus another wing, so for starter it’s two wings though possibly only one reserve wing will play.

Mitch Noel Spellman are the Cs

Randle Obi Knox MKG are the Fs

RJ Burks Bullock Rivers Iggy Pinson Evans are the Wings

Payton Frank Quickley DSJ Powell Harper are the PGs

If all that holds, all the cuts with the possible though I think unlikely exception of MKG will be of guys 6’5” or shorter. We didn’t bring many bigs to camp and  seven guys you want matching up down low is about as few as you’d want to have constructing an NBA roster.

Only 2 of DSJ, Iggy, and Rivers are making this team.
Title: Message From Thibs
Post by: chipstern on December 02, 2020, 08:10:49 AM
Youth Will NOT BE Served.

Youth Will BE CHALLENGED. 

No One Gets A Free Pass. 
Title: Re: Message From Thibs
Post by: chipstern on December 02, 2020, 08:18:17 AM
Quote from: chipstern on December 02, 2020, 08:10:49 AM
Youth Will NOT BE Served.

Youth Will BE CHALLENGED. 

No One Gets A Free Pass.

Thibs On RJ & OB

"Very talented, very athletic, very versatile, excited to have him on our team"

[SUBTEXT: He needs to raise his O]

"His energy, his skill set, offensively he's about as ready as a young guy can be"

[SUBTEXT: He needs to raise his D]
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 02, 2020, 10:37:35 AM
Marcus Smart compared to Austin Rivers and JR Smith = drunk posting?


Rivers gets his share of Ts as well of course - as does Thibs

Absolutely thrilled to have them both aboard.

Take the over 22.5
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 02, 2020, 11:32:47 AM
Christmas TV schedule:

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1333944080682917889?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1333944080682917889%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fhoopshype.com%2Frumors%2F

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 02, 2020, 04:46:05 PM
Congratulations to LiAngelo Ball for signing his first NBA contract (Exhibit 10 with Detroit) - and to proud Papa Ball.  First set of three brothers?  Not sure.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 02, 2020, 04:56:16 PM
Brent, Jon, and Drew Barry
Title: Rivers Obi Stan
Post by: Kam on December 02, 2020, 06:19:10 PM
Ian Begley
@IanBegley

Austin Rivers says he’s been impressed by Obi Toppin during workouts thus far. Rivers called Toppin a freak athlete, shook his head when talking about the Knicks rookie.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 02, 2020, 08:13:31 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 02, 2020, 04:56:16 PM
Brent, Jon, and Drew Barry

heh

Of course.

Was a pretty big G Tech fan back in the day - how did I forget?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 02, 2020, 08:30:22 PM
Also Miles, Mason, and Marshall Plumlee
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 02, 2020, 08:32:01 PM
And Jrue, Justin, and Aaron Holiday
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 02, 2020, 08:33:39 PM
Caldwell Charles Major and Wil Jones

- looked it up
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 02, 2020, 09:08:27 PM
Rusty for Wall and a protected first rounder.

Harden gets Wall and Wood this year. Washington gets weirder.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 02, 2020, 09:16:05 PM
Wow... two Knicks targets (supposedly) off the board.  Team and fans can exhale.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 02, 2020, 09:17:57 PM
There's a pretty decent chance that Houston never gets that 1st rd pick. 

Shams Charania
@ShamsCharania

Sources: Protection on the first-round pick that the Wizards traded to Houston in Russell Westbrook/John Wall trade: 2023, Lottery; 2024, Top 12; 2025, Top 10; 2026, Top 8; then becomes two second-rounders.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 02, 2020, 09:21:14 PM
Rockets are must see basketball.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 02, 2020, 10:29:25 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EoR1zfvW4AAFEgG?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 03, 2020, 06:55:53 AM
Quote from: Kam on December 02, 2020, 09:16:05 PM
Wow... two Knicks targets (supposedly) off the board.  Team and fans can exhale.

Either of them could be traded again ...

The Holiday bros are in the league now.
2 on IND.  the other in MIL now.
Maybe catch up in CHItown on an off night ....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 03, 2020, 08:30:04 AM
Quote from: Kam on December 02, 2020, 09:16:05 PM
Wow... two Knicks targets (supposedly) off the board.  Team and fans can exhale.

Got that right.

Now we can all gather around the camp fire, in the spirt of Kumbaya, and chant Nom-Myo-Ho-Ren-Gay-Kyo in the hope and desperate expectation that Elfrid Payton discovers a jump shot and raises his efficiency at the FT Line. 

So let it be written, so let it be done. 

PS: With an added good word for Dennis Smith.  I know I'm a minority of ONE, but I sincerely believe DJ Junior is destined to be a salvage job and not to be discarded on the salvage heap.  So sue me. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 03, 2020, 09:53:45 AM
I'm rooting for Knox and Jr. Smith.
Smith could become a Shroder/Rozier type.
But time is ticking on his career.
Let's hope he's put in the time and is ready to start turning things around,
Fresh start ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 03, 2020, 11:36:50 AM
Chip, you knew Papa Jo Jones, right?
If so, he's interviewed a bunch in a new Billie Holiday doc.
interviews from the '70's done by a biographer who did a ton of research but died in '78 after 8 years of work.  So all new footage and interviews from the 70's.
https://www.npr.org/2020/12/03/940104383/new-documentary-billie-explores-mysteries-of-billie-holiday-and-her-biographer
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 03, 2020, 11:36:54 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 03, 2020, 09:53:45 AM
I'm rooting for Knox and Jr. Smith.
Smith could become a Shroder/Rozier type.
But time is ticking on his career.
Let's hope he's put in the time and is ready to start turning things around,
Fresh start ...

Ditto. 

People should NOT be sleeping on Kevin and Dennis. 

Do or die at this point.  Do not believe Knicks have given up on either of them. 

Payton as the PRESUMPTIVE point guard?

Could be. 

But he has to earn it. 

PS: Anthony Davis just signing his long term max.  Can Giannis be far behind?  So...who exactly are these max free agent targets for 2021-2022?  I'm not feeling it, and I sure ain't SEEING It. 

PPS: Dark Horses?  Marcus Smart.  Spencer Dinwiddie.  Evan Fournier. 
Title: The Parables Of Jo Jones
Post by: chipstern on December 03, 2020, 11:49:23 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 03, 2020, 11:36:50 AM
Chip, you knew Papa Jo Jones, right?
If so, he's interviewed a bunch in a new Billie Holiday doc.
interviews from the '70's done by a biographer who did a ton of research but died in '78 after 8 years of work.  So all new footage and interviews from the 70's.
https://www.npr.org/2020/12/03/940104383/new-documentary-billie-explores-mysteries-of-billie-holiday-and-her-biographer

Sounds like the Papa Jo Jones I knew. 

Some things he told me, just off the top of my head.   

"Chip, I've had four cats, and each of them know more about the brushes than you'll ever know."

"I show nothing to nobody.  My own son.  Shit, I wouldn't give a crippled crab a crutch to crawl across
Bridgette Bardot's pussy." 

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQacKXd2r-XBLJWacAKL49kFkv1ir43goVGQA&usqp=CAU)

"Chip, have you ever heard the expression, 'Who hath seen the wind, neither you nor I?' Well, this is the only kind of racial wisdom I know.  Everyone is down in Hell, a Jew, an Irishman and a Negro.  And the Devil confronts them: 'Any of you who can name a task I cannot peform, goes straight to heaven.  So the Jew shrank, the Irishman shrank.  Finally, the Devil turned to the Negro and said, 'Well, nigger, what you got to say for yourself, boy?' and the Negro said, 'Brother Devil, I just farted--paint it green.'  So any time you're with me and you hear me say 'Paint it green,' you know what I'm talking about. You kmow what I'm talking about, Chip?  Nah, you don't know what I'm talking about--you ain't never done that kind of living in your life.'" 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbQg_b0na-0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbQg_b0na-0)

OLD MAN RIVER

Thanks for the heads up, Bo. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 03, 2020, 12:57:55 PM
People should NOT be sleeping on Kevin and Dennis.

DSJ gotta breathe.  Throttle down at times.  Shroder is a blur but in relax mode when the decision/play needs completing.

K Knox gotta make shots

Both need to make better decisions.  That's the "could happen" part of getting more experience.

Making Knox solely a 4 is a mistake (and I am not even sure has been discussed)

-----

Speaking of small ball, I am hearing PJ Washington may be playing some 5 in CHA - giving them more space to get guys on the floor (think Bridges as a 4).  CHA damn interesting.  Gotta get that free T Mobile NBA package ordered up.  Probably can only catch quarters of games, but good way to keep up with the L (as is playing Yahoo fantasy just for fun)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 03, 2020, 01:46:17 PM
Ian Begley: Knicks rookie Obi Toppin doesn’t mention any personal goals when asked about expectations for himself in his rookie season. Toppin says he wants to help change/shape the Knicks culture, win games, make the playoffs. – via Twitter IanBegley


Interview passed.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 03, 2020, 01:50:34 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 03, 2020, 11:36:54 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 03, 2020, 09:53:45 AM
I'm rooting for Knox and Jr. Smith.
Smith could become a Shroder/Rozier type.
But time is ticking on his career.
Let's hope he's put in the time and is ready to start turning things around,
Fresh start ...

Ditto. 

People should NOT be sleeping on Kevin and Dennis. 

Do or die at this point.  Do not believe Knicks have given up on either of them. 

Payton as the PRESUMPTIVE point guard?

Could be. 

But he has to earn it. 

PS: Anthony Davis just signing his long term max.  Can Giannis be far behind?  So...who exactly are these max free agent targets for 2021-2022?  I'm not feeling it, and I sure ain't SEEING It. 

PPS: Dark Horses?  Marcus Smart.  Spencer Dinwiddie.  Evan Fournier.

Beal
McCollum

And if they opt out -

CP3
PG
Kawhi
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 03, 2020, 02:57:18 PM
Knox needs to make plays.
Once we drafted ObiT, it seemed rather obvious the 4 was full and Knox would be at the open 3 spot.  There's minutes there.  But RJB, Bullox, and MKG could steal them if Knox is too somnambulant.

Really I'd like to start one of Knox or Smith, if either seemed up for the challenge.  Wouldn't even have to play big minutes.  Some teams do that, often with vets, who set the tone in the 1Q and then don't get back out there much.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 03, 2020, 03:22:44 PM
Minutes stolen from Knox?  That's real funny

He is nowhere near top of that depth chart

I guess you will see how silly you are next Friday.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 03, 2020, 03:24:30 PM
You will see

PG
Rivers
Barrett

a good amount of time at the 1-3 slots
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 03, 2020, 04:20:55 PM
No one said Knox is first in line at SF.
You said some nonsense about Knox at PF.
What I said in the previous post is that the SF position is wide open and  Knox will be expected to contribute there, if he can.

I imagine the thinking is Knox is slated for 15+ minutes a night at SF.
With more available if he can handle them.
But there's also a chance Knox gets some DNP's or just spot minutes as the season goes on if he underperforms.  I think he controls his own fate.

Au Revoir has a shot at decent minutes since he's the only SG who can dribble, pass and shoot.  Though an erratic shooter. With our weak PG play, having a combo G out there can help.  Bullox can make a case for himself as a solid defender.  Burks only has gunning on his side, but we do need a 3 point threat.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 03, 2020, 05:02:04 PM
"No one said Knox is first in line"


- RJB, Bullox, and MKG could steal (the minutes) if Knox is too somnambulant.


Not you?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 03, 2020, 05:04:24 PM
But there's also a chance Knox gets some DNP's or just spot minutes as the season goes on if he underperforms.  I think he controls his own fate.


Would playing like last year be underperforming?  How good does Knox have to be for Thibs to play him  a)  Early on?  B)  Later in season?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 03, 2020, 05:46:16 PM
Minutes for my TEN (Knox can try to chip away)

Payton 20
Dennis 24

Barrett 32
Burks 22

Rivers 26
Bullock 18

Randle 32
Toppin 18

Robinson 22
Noel 20

Other 6

Any added minutes to OTHER or the 9 non- Bullock starters come from Bullock

I might even add that Bullock could still be dealt if he shows any cracks in his defense/hustle presence
Title: Fantasy draft next Tuesday
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 03, 2020, 06:20:23 PM
https://basketball.fantasysports.yahoo.com/nba/55605/invitation?key=97e2eeb073c1d87c&soc_trk=lnk&ikey=ccd1068c69119d36

Sign up by Sunday if interested
Title: Re: Fantasy draft next Tuesday
Post by: Kam on December 03, 2020, 10:00:13 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 03, 2020, 06:20:23 PM
https://basketball.fantasysports.yahoo.com/nba/55605/invitation?key=97e2eeb073c1d87c&soc_trk=lnk&ikey=ccd1068c69119d36

Sign up by Sunday if interested

Clean up your act first. 
Title: Re: Fantasy draft next Tuesday
Post by: facilitatorn on December 03, 2020, 11:23:14 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 03, 2020, 10:00:13 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 03, 2020, 06:20:23 PM
https://basketball.fantasysports.yahoo.com/nba/55605/invitation?key=97e2eeb073c1d87c&soc_trk=lnk&ikey=ccd1068c69119d36

Sign up by Sunday if interested

Clean up your act first.

Kid is a whiny little bitch who famously cheats in his football pools.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 04, 2020, 12:20:25 AM
I dont keep the tally
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 04, 2020, 12:31:05 AM
First three collegiate games for possibly the next Knicks point guard

https://sports.yahoo.com/ncaab/players/159163/

Keep an eye on Oke State (3-0)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 04, 2020, 02:27:57 AM
Are those the minutes you would dole out? 
Or what you expect Thibs will go with?

I think one of Rivers/Bullox/Burks gets few minutes if any.
Rivers the most versatile, so he should be relatively safe.
Depends how much court time Franc gets.
I assume one of Burks/Bullox sits.

Knox 15-20 mins, if he can handle it.
Last year wasn't good for Knox, but I think his continued development is still a priority.  I will say drafting another weak defender at PF doesn't help Knox fit in the lineup.

I don't see Franc and Knox out of the rotation for three journeymen wings.
Sure hope not.  That's be extremely short-sighted.

Otherwise:
- I think the C split will be more Mitch 28 / Nawlins 16.
Noel has often looked best in short stretches/limited minutes; and hopefully Mitch is ready for more.
- Can't see Toppin under 20 mpg -- he's supposed to be NBA ready, is 22 and we're a weak sister who needs to prioritize development.
- Development will be balanced with vet play.  (ie Frank and Knox play; Topping and Mitch get more playing time)
- I'd like to see MKG get 6-8 mins, or just some minutes now and then to see if he can help the team and glue together some patchwork lineups.
Another crayon in the tool box or however that goes ...

Maybe Thibs goes more Win Now and vet-heavy, as you have it, but playing journeymen over yute is misguided this year imo.  I could see Franc falling through the cracks -- though Thibs like defense.  Should be a situational 14 mins for Franc.  If both Knox and Franc are out of the rotation, priorities are out of whack.  In the past directives might come down from the front office to play certain guys, I have no idea how CAA runs things or their relationship with Thibs.

Simply, I'd much rather one of Bullox/Burks gets DNP-ed and Knox/Franc out there.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 04, 2020, 02:33:59 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 04, 2020, 12:31:05 AM
First three collegiate games for possibly the next Knicks point guard

https://sports.yahoo.com/ncaab/players/159163/

Keep an eye on Oke State (3-0)

Cunningham looks very smooth.  If Ben Simmons had a jumpshot he might be Cade Cunningham when he grows up.
But right now Jalen Suggs looks amazing.  Jason Kidd passing skills with Damian Lillard type shooting and dunking.
Maybe the Knicks were looking to 2021 when they passed on TyH.  Suggs or Cunningham look better than any of the PG's drafted this year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on December 04, 2020, 10:02:58 AM
Looks as though the Franky and KK mistakes have been replaced by some shooters and scorers this year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 04, 2020, 10:32:23 AM
Are those the minutes you would dole out?
Or what you expect Thibs will go with?


Expected end of year minutes given no further changes.

But I am sure each guy will be cut a minute or three and some on the list will have a handful more (read - player 11-15 may total more than 6 minutes per)

DNPs count as ZERO MINUTES for this exercise of course.  9 DNPs and one 20 minute game played = 2 minutes per, though the stats wil show it as 20.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 04, 2020, 10:34:40 AM
Quote from: luee on December 04, 2020, 10:02:58 AM
Looks as though the Franky and KK mistakes have been replaced by some shooters and scorers this year.

Rivers over Frank
Burks over Knox

Just there - without even figuring in Toppin - improves us.  Then add the Thibs effect

Still....22-50 is the under projection, 23-49 the over?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 04, 2020, 10:52:44 AM
Simply, I'd much rather one of Bullox/Burks gets DNP-ed and Knox/Franc out there.


You dont agree then that OKC cashed in on their win total a year ago?

I dont see Burks ever DNP.  Bullock - sure

There will be some nights as well  when we only go 9 deep, I'd bet.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 04, 2020, 11:03:05 AM
I dont discount that Knox could be shooting it better in camp and starting Friday.

What is it you like about his game?

About Frank?

Or are you just trying to get mileage out of first rounders?

Comparing to the guys you want them to play over it wouldnt seem like the team would be better off froma  production or an on court leadership perspective. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 04, 2020, 11:55:58 AM
a)  More pivotal deals to be done in the league

b)  All the trades other than minor shuffling are done

- Leaning toward B
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 04, 2020, 11:57:15 AM
That said -

R J Barrett plus picks for Harden?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 04, 2020, 03:58:58 PM
It's going to be another losing year, so I don't see the benefit of winning 3-5 extra games by playing journeymen vets over developing yute.  Playing a balance in order to try to be  to some extent competitive seems reasonable, which was what we did last year mostly.

As for Knox, mostly he has an NBA body, which he doesn't take advantage of.  His shooting stroke looks all right.  He can drive and get to the rim, but tends to avoid contact and oddly stay low getting blocked far too much.  Needs to bang.   Should watch tape of a young Melo and Jason Tatum.  Getting to the FT line and putting the ball through the hoop from there often helps a player get his O on track.

An increased motor could get him an extra board or two, plus maybe an easy cutting basket a game.  Increased defensive awareness would help.  Steady teammates, so he knows what to expect, could help.  Knox isn't terribly far away and is young, but has a lot to work on and no core strengths yet.  Essentially he is young, seems willing to learn and has an NBA body.  Knox is younger than Toppings.

From the makeup of this team, Knox probably needs to knock down 3's in order to be useful.  Has the size to shoot over most SF's. If he can adequately guard SF's that'd help a lot too, but he hasn't shown much on that end yet.  I have trouble believing a young losing team will just bury their 3rd year lottery pick.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 04, 2020, 03:59:13 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 04, 2020, 11:57:15 AM
That said -

R J Barrett plus picks for Harden?

Fuck no, but thank you for the offer.

You can pencil in Randle, Burks, and Barrett for about 30 minutes a night at least. That’s our most highly touted young buck and fairly versatile front and backcourt scoring. Those guys are going to need rim protection. With Burks and Barrett, you don’t necessarily need a point guard though someone quick and shifty would help. If Barrett could take a big step toward Burks’ level as a catch and shoot threat, a point guard would have a lot of juicy options from this group. That includes vertical spacing from Mitch, Obi, and Noel.

We have a legit camp battle between Payton and Frank for top PG. they are both several leagues better than anyone else on the roster in this role. Payton ended the year better, but Frank was on his heels.

I think Mitch beats out Noel, Randle beats out Obi, Frank beats out Payton (Frank got nice from corner 3 and now he’ll be working with the Jazz messenger who brought Burks over and with Woody). Burks and Barrett beat out all comers.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 04, 2020, 04:08:36 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 04, 2020, 03:59:13 PM
With Burks and Barrett, you don’t necessarily need a point guard though someone quick and shifty would help.

I thought RJB looked terrible as a PG.  So did Franc.
Ballhandling and passing were not a strength last year.
Elf started because he can penetrate and assist.
And he's really a career backup.  Burks is a chucker.
Knix really need a PG.

No PG lineups or Franc starting and we'll wind up with Randle bringing the ball upcourt again...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 04, 2020, 04:43:24 PM
You’re such a worry wart. We’ll be fine.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 04, 2020, 05:10:32 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 04, 2020, 03:59:13 PM

We have a legit camp battle between Payton and Frank for top PG. they are both several leagues better than anyone else on the roster in this role. Payton ended the year better, but Frank was on his heels.

I think Mitch beats out Noel, Randle beats out Obi, Frank beats out Payton (Frank got nice from corner 3 and now he’ll be working with the Jazz messenger who brought Burks over and with Woody). Burks and Barrett beat out all comers.

Frank isn't an orchestrator.  He can find spot minutes, maybe 6 minutes a night at the 1, 2, 3 .  So maybe 18 minutes max.  Not bad if he contributes and gets 18 minutes per night while Payton and DSJ provide the PG duties.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 04, 2020, 05:30:55 PM
I think Frank has made strides in that department and he has some milestone accomplishments and benchmarks behind him that will help him make more strides quickly if that’s the direction the coaching staff wants to go.

I’m less trusting Smith staying focused and making good decisions for significant stretches. That’s never really been a big part of his game even in stretches where he has been productive.

Payton pulling out a career year shooting makes either of these guy his backup. Frank would make it a lot closer than DSJ.

Rivers can beat out DSJ in any back court role. I don’t think you put Austin on the floor instead of Frank.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 04, 2020, 05:36:06 PM
I dislike our team.

And I'd rather watch young guys make mistakes than journeymen do the same.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 04, 2020, 06:10:58 PM
One way to ensure Obi gets max minutes:

Buddy Hield for Julius Randle and a protected first rounder.

They can have Frank as well, give us a warm body back and/or a second.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 04, 2020, 06:13:07 PM
Rivers can beat out DSJ in any back court role. I don’t think you put Austin on the floor instead of Frank.


If this were the case we would not have signed him

Though there is a thought process that AR could be moved in FEB.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 04, 2020, 06:21:38 PM
Smith and Toppin are the true wild cards that could propel this team to upper 30 wins and beyond.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 04, 2020, 06:22:55 PM
I dislike our team.


Poor you.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 04, 2020, 06:27:33 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 04, 2020, 06:13:07 PM
Rivers can beat out DSJ in any back court role. I don’t think you put Austin on the floor instead of Frank.


If this were the case we would not have signed him

Though there is a thought process that AR could be moved in FEB.

Rivers signed a peanut sized team friendly deal to provide bench depth in the backcourt. He’s become fine in that capacity and he wants to be here. Good pickup by us.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 04, 2020, 06:28:18 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 04, 2020, 06:10:58 PM
Buddy Hield for Julius Randle and a protected first rounder.

Well, that might have been possible if they had matched BogdanBogdan's offer sheet.  But they already have Bagley and Holmes (and Barnes) at PF.  And that would leave them far too thin at SG, with rook TyH starting and no backup (we could throw in A Rivers/Burks/Bullox).  But I assume Kings want to make the playoffs this year.

The Fox - Hield; Cory Joe - TyH backcourt is pretty nice and versatile.

With Fox netting a max deal, Kings wanted to be careful with their money and let Bogx2 go.

I think it's going to be hard to find a landing spot for Julius.
Also, ObiT can get more minutes by simply reducing Randle to 25 mpg, if toppings deserves half the courttime.  Looked like Randle ran out of gas in the 4Q most games last year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 04, 2020, 08:20:06 PM
I didnt make it up

Sac wants picks - and a salary match puts Randle - a great scorer - sorry - in play.

I am sure Knicks

a)  come up short on pick offer(s)

and/or

b)  dont wish to give up Randle in this one.
Title: Chamaco's obits
Post by: carlos123 on December 04, 2020, 08:28:58 PM
In case you don't know about the new obituary on Chamaco's posts it's for a Loeffler campaign staffer:

"One of Georgia Sen. Kelly Loeffler’s campaign staffers was killed Friday in a multivehicle crash in South Georgia, forcing her and Gov. Brian Kemp to cancel their plans to join Vice President Mike Pence in Savannah for a rally.

Harrison Deal, a young aide for Loeffler and a former intern for Sen. David Perdue, was also a close family friend of the Kemps. The 20-year-old from Statesboro was remembered by Loeffler as a beloved member of her team."
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 04, 2020, 09:17:09 PM
wait? what? when did he lose the Trump has the best dick I ever sucked closing para? I hadn't even noticed!


*** guess it is kind of embarrassing to keep posting that after your man loses by 7 f'ing million votes
Title: It's complicated
Post by: carlos123 on December 04, 2020, 09:32:21 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on December 04, 2020, 09:17:09 PM
wait? what? when did he lose the Trump has the best dick I ever sucked closing para? I hadn't even noticed!


*** guess it is kind of embarrassing to keep posting that after your man loses by 7 f'ing million votes

Les, it's complicated. Chamaco has at least 2 impersonations here:

kiid's closing generally is about free Portland or some other place he don't like.
kid's closing is a rolling obituary.
He/they moved on from the Trump closing a long time ago, maybe Trumptin has no dick after all, or doesn't have Putin's permission to use it with Chamaco.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 05, 2020, 02:19:42 AM
Quote
Within a recap of the Knicks‘ offseason moves, Marc Berman of The New York Post suggests that Leon Rose‘s Plan A involved trading for Chris Paul and then signing Carmelo Anthony.

When Paul, who reportedly wasn’t interested in joining the Knicks, was instead sent to Phoenix, Rose pivoted and completed a handful of minor signings and trades to fill out the roster.

Yikes.
Interesting that both plans involved bringing in vet journeymen (sorry but that's what CP3 and Melo have become in their dotage, even if Paul is still a high level fella).  I guess that's to give Thibs a fighting chance. 

Thibs more Win Now then Develop Pups.  Alex Burks playing big minutes and Knox DNPe-ed would be distressing.  Au Revoir and no Franc?  That's what Berman and kiid foresee.  Seems a very short-sighted approach to Bo.

I like Thibs ... but for these Knix?
Woulda brought in a development coach such as Atkinson.

Maybe we can flip Rivers or Burks midseason for a yute or pick to a playoff team in need.  That's what we did with our PF overload last year after MaMo played well.
Would give Knox and franc half a season to apprentice under Thibs' system before they get significant playing time.  I could go with such a tough love approach.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 05, 2020, 02:25:40 AM
Knox and Frank are on the clock.  The 2021 draft is loaded and we have our pick, the Dallas pick, and two second rounders (Charlotte and Detroit). 

Philly gets the Knick own 2nd rounder.  I believe this was a Travis Outlaw trade from 2015.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 05, 2020, 02:28:33 AM
I haven't given up on knox and franc but I don't put too much stock into either one.

If one of DSJ/Frank/Knox pans out this year I will be happy.   

If all three flame out I won't be surprised or even too bothered.
Title: Bewitched & bewildered ...
Post by: bodiddley on December 05, 2020, 03:08:30 AM
We part company on the bothered ...

KNIX TRIVIA:

Name the 4 ex-Knix in the Top 10 of most Career Minutes Played among Active NBA players.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 05, 2020, 03:39:48 AM
Well i'm already bothered we don't have Donovan Mitchell so i can't be really be too much MORE bothered whatever Frank or DSJ do.

With Knox I would be a little bothered.  But not like.... oh how did we miss Donovan Mitchell.
Title: Re: Bewitched & bewildered ...
Post by: Kam on December 05, 2020, 03:41:40 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 05, 2020, 03:08:30 AM

KNIX TRIVIA:

Name the 4 ex-Knix in the Top 10 of most Career Minutes Played among Active NBA players.

Carmelo has to be one of them.  Then i'll guess DRose, Trevor Ariza jr smith, and.... Jamal Crawford?  Tyson Chandler?
Title: Re: Bewitched & bewildered ...
Post by: bodiddley on December 05, 2020, 05:59:40 AM
Quote from: Kam on December 05, 2020, 03:41:40 AM
Carmelo has to be one of them.  Then i'll guess DRose,  Trevor Ariza jr smith, and.... Jamal Crawford?  Tyson Chandler?

You just struck out 2 guys who were right.
Fixed it for ya.

1.   LeBron James   48551
2.   Melo Anthony 40031
3.   Jamal Crawford 38994
4.   Andre Iguodala   37452
5.   Dwight Howard   37290
6.   Chris Paul           35558
7.   LaM Aldridge      34518
8.   Trevor Ariza   31650
9.   Ty Chandler   31617

If Pa Gasol comes back as a Laker, then bump everybody but LeBJ down one place.

I was surprised to see Craw so high, and Trev in 8th.
Ariza is also a trivia answer for the player most traded, though he still has a few teams to go to be first for most teams played for.
Ariza a nice long productive career, especially for a 2nd rounder. Too bad Larry Brown didn't want him shooting the ball.

Knix never seem to draft a player and have him stay 7-10 years.
Wonder who was the last drafted Knick to play for the team for 7 years?
I guess institutional knowledge is deemed less important when you have a new coach every 2 years ...
Title: Mourning In America?
Post by: chipstern on December 05, 2020, 08:28:11 AM
While we are surely moved by the life of a 20 year old woman being snuffed out before she even had a chance to live...

Would it be unkind to point out that her employer profitted substantially from insider trading information she was privy to as a US Senator about the severity of the uncoming pandemic.

And that our narcisstic sociopath in chief continues to diddle about in his refusal to acknowledge reality, while propigating wackamole conspiracy theories, turning viciously on members of his own party, refusing to consul his "followers" to eschew violence towards those he has targetted as enemies of the people, and completely abdicating any semblance of leadership in battling a pandemic he helped propigate. 

So, while we are mourning a solitary 20 year old, how about some compassion and outreach to the friends and families of 280,000 DEAD AMERICANS? 

PS: Minny center Karl Anthony Towns has not only lost his mother to COVID, but apparently SEVEN OTHER MEMBERS OF HIS IMMEDIATE FAMILY. 

PPS: Anyone who has the chutzpah to pretend that Mister Trump has any baseline competence let along vestigual sub atomic particles of  rudimentary compassion and empathy, is beyond contempt. 

PPPS: Typical of this knuckle dragging, egotistical GRIFTER, is that on the way out the door, Trumpty Dumpty, under the pretext of a Legal Fund to root out election fraud, has scammed his followers out of upwards of $200,000,000 in contributions, 75% of which go directly into his coffers. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 05, 2020, 09:54:40 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on December 04, 2020, 09:17:09 PM
wait? what? when did he lose the Trump has the best dick I ever sucked closing para? I hadn't even noticed!


*** guess it is kind of embarrassing to keep posting that after your man loses by 7 f'ing million votes

Moderator - please eliminate this post - thanks
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 05, 2020, 09:58:44 AM
So, while we are mourning a solitary 20 year old, how about some compassion and outreach to the friends and families of 280,000 DEAD AMERICANS?


Room for both.

And I am in that group, of course.  As are most of us.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 05, 2020, 10:03:02 AM
Quote from: Kam on December 05, 2020, 02:28:33 AM
I haven't given up on knox and franc but I don't put too much stock into either one.

If one of DSJ/Frank/Knox pans out this year I will be happy.   

If all three flame out I won't be surprised or even too bothered.

Cool.  You are thinking clearly

I think there is some room within your "pans out" for contribution.  I just dont see Frank minutes - ditto Knox, though hot shooters earn time.

Smith is a necessary "lets see what he's got early on" minutes provider because of the juice in his game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 05, 2020, 10:11:21 AM
Chip - do you think NBA players should be held accountable when they act irresponsibly and get COVID?

You can't fight human nature outside of a bubble
Unfortunate fact: During this offseason, sources say, several NBA players located in cities with severe limitations have flown to NBA cities with few.

Bars and clubs, it was explained, aren't closed everywhere, and so it's no wonder that nearly 50 players tested positive between Nov. 24-30.

It wasn't just the bubble that prevented this in Orlando. It was the team leaders within it. A guy like, say, LeBron James could keep an eye on his teammates in Orlando and make sure they were all on the same page about staying cautious and staying cleared to play.

That won't be true, or as true, during a regular season in the real world. So, again: Expect many positive COVID-19 tests and resulting problems.


Fines?  Suspensions?

Lets hear some answers beyond "Trump sucks".
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 05, 2020, 10:24:56 AM
Quote from: Kam on December 05, 2020, 02:25:40 AM
Knox and Frank are on the clock.  The 2021 draft is loaded and we have our pick, the Dallas pick, and two second rounders (Charlotte and Detroit). 

Philly gets the Knick own 2nd rounder.  I believe this was a Travis Outlaw trade from 2015.

And FOUR Kentucky guys in the top 30

Team Wildcat rides!

https://www.sbnation.com/2020/11/19/21567033/nba-mock-draft-2021-cade-cunningham-jalen-green-evan-mobley
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 05, 2020, 11:52:55 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 05, 2020, 09:54:40 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on December 04, 2020, 09:17:09 PM
wait? what? when did he lose the Trump has the best dick I ever sucked closing para? I hadn't even noticed!


*** guess it is kind of embarrassing to keep posting that after your man loses by 7 f'ing million votes

Moderator - please eliminate this post - thanks

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 05, 2020, 12:37:00 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on December 05, 2020, 11:52:55 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 05, 2020, 09:54:40 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on December 04, 2020, 09:17:09 PM
wait? what? when did he lose the Trump has the best dick I ever sucked closing para? I hadn't even noticed!


*** guess it is kind of embarrassing to keep posting that after your man loses by 7 f'ing million votes

Moderator - please eliminate this post - thanks

heh

Poor Kiid gets enough of this sentiment every time he passes a mirror. It’s wracking him with endless self recriminations.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 05, 2020, 12:47:31 PM
None of our other guards have the skills, physicality, and understanding of the game to compete with Burks, Barrett, Payton, or Frank. Those four will crush all comers in camp and earn the vast bulk of the minutes. Rivers is probably the next best, looking at a role comparable to what he had with the Rockets.

Knox’s best path to minutes is to beat out Bullock & MKG.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 05, 2020, 03:49:46 PM
Not sure it's a matter of beating out...

Just have to be productive to be useable unlike some other years.

Productive for Knox means POINTS, means making shots.

So..

Let's use points per 36 and say it needs to be 16-20.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 05, 2020, 03:54:40 PM
Not getting dusted, not getting in other players’ way, not zoning out at all ever, cutting hard, getting his body into people will get Knox a spot if he can do it on or above an MKG level. Scoring would be nice, efficient scoring would be even better.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 05, 2020, 05:53:48 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 05, 2020, 03:54:40 PM
Not getting dusted, not getting in other players’ way, not zoning out at all ever, cutting hard, getting his body into people will get Knox a spot if he can do it on or above an MKG level.

heh

yeah, because this is expected of a player so young - one who hasnt been schooled at all defensively

No.  MAKE SHOTS.  The other comes later.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 05, 2020, 05:55:29 PM
Fac thinks if Knox shoots 40% on threes he wont stay on the court if his man gets lost at times on the defensive end

Fac real funny
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 05, 2020, 05:55:53 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 05, 2020, 10:24:56 AM
Quote from: Kam on December 05, 2020, 02:25:40 AM
Knox and Frank are on the clock.  The 2021 draft is loaded and we have our pick, the Dallas pick, and two second rounders (Charlotte and Detroit). 

Philly gets the Knick own 2nd rounder.  I believe this was a Travis Outlaw trade from 2015.

And FOUR Kentucky guys in the top 30

Team Wildcat rides!

https://www.sbnation.com/2020/11/19/21567033/nba-mock-draft-2021-cade-cunningham-jalen-green-evan-mobley

SUGGS AT 12?!!  That's rubbish.  His floor is Lonzo Ball with a jumpshot.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 05, 2020, 06:03:23 PM
Just as a reminder -

Knox shooting

Rookie season -  .387 on 2 pointers, .343 on 3s, .717 from line.  TS = .475
Year 2 -             .391                       .327          .653                          .470
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 05, 2020, 06:11:58 PM
Burks       .439        .385        .887          .561

Bullock     .469        .333        .810         .502

MKG (18-19) .498     .340       .772         .553           
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 05, 2020, 06:12:53 PM
SUGGS AT 12?!!  That's rubbish.  His floor is Lonzo Ball with a jumpshot.


Nobody is Lonzo Ball
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 05, 2020, 06:46:06 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 05, 2020, 06:11:58 PM
Burks       .439        .385        .887          .561

Bullock     .469        .333        .810         .502

MKG (18-19) .498     .340       .772         .553         

And all three are at least scratch defenders who’ve been through the wars.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 05, 2020, 07:15:28 PM
Tom Westerholm: Brad Stevens notes that it is “imperative” that the Celtics find some guys who can impact winning, especially early in the season when the roster won’t be complete. – via Twitter Tom_NBA


heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 05, 2020, 07:23:45 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 05, 2020, 06:12:53 PM
SUGGS AT 12?!!  That's rubbish.  His floor is Lonzo Ball with a jumpshot.


Nobody is Lonzo Ball

Watch Gonzaga.  He is a monster.

You should watch the entire video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaB5-7kjrjQ&feature=emb_logo) but if you don't have time these three plays showcase just his passing:

https://youtu.be/qaB5-7kjrjQ?t=95 (https://youtu.be/qaB5-7kjrjQ?t=95)
https://youtu.be/qaB5-7kjrjQ?t=227 (https://youtu.be/qaB5-7kjrjQ?t=227)
https://youtu.be/qaB5-7kjrjQ?t=234 (https://youtu.be/qaB5-7kjrjQ?t=234)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 05, 2020, 07:32:28 PM
More suggs here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvWZrnOzLPk&feature=emb_logo)

Just the passes here:

https://youtu.be/CvWZrnOzLPk?t=98 (https://youtu.be/CvWZrnOzLPk?t=98)
https://youtu.be/CvWZrnOzLPk?t=112 (https://youtu.be/CvWZrnOzLPk?t=112)
https://youtu.be/CvWZrnOzLPk?t=168 (https://youtu.be/CvWZrnOzLPk?t=168) <-- eyes in the back of his head
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 05, 2020, 07:35:58 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 05, 2020, 07:23:45 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 05, 2020, 06:12:53 PM
SUGGS AT 12?!!  That's rubbish.  His floor is Lonzo Ball with a jumpshot.


Nobody is Lonzo Ball

Watch Gonzaga.  He is a monster.

You should watch the entire video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaB5-7kjrjQ&feature=emb_logo) but if you don't have time these three plays showcase just his passing:

https://youtu.be/qaB5-7kjrjQ?t=95 (https://youtu.be/qaB5-7kjrjQ?t=95)
https://youtu.be/qaB5-7kjrjQ?t=227 (https://youtu.be/qaB5-7kjrjQ?t=227)
https://youtu.be/qaB5-7kjrjQ?t=234 (https://youtu.be/qaB5-7kjrjQ?t=234)

Maybe I will get to it tonight, thanks

I tape entire games - have one of Zags' in the can.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 06, 2020, 12:04:40 AM
https://www.nbadraft.net/nba-mock-drafts/ (https://www.nbadraft.net/nba-mock-drafts/)

Suggs #1
I'd probably take Cunningham #1. 
I think any of the Top8 players would've gone #1 this year.
Title: Interesting site
Post by: Kam on December 06, 2020, 12:24:53 AM
https://positiveresidual.com/shiny/nba/ (https://positiveresidual.com/shiny/nba/)

Compares the schedule of all teams to each other, including # of miles traveled, # of back to backs, # of games with more rest advantage than opponent.

Guess which team has to log the most miles?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 06, 2020, 04:02:39 AM
Knix just one National Tv game.
7 teams have none; 5 have one

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EocZo__U0AA8rhq?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Suggs CAM
Post by: chipstern on December 06, 2020, 01:10:53 PM
Kam.

Today is the first day of full team workouts for the 2020-2021 Knicks. 

Suggs?  The 2022 Draft Lottery? 

Perhaps we are getting a bit ahead of ourselves, hmmmmmm?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 06, 2020, 02:10:38 PM
We’re still in the info blackout, and will be till we get a preseason game in at least. No harm in speculation or star gazing at this point.
Title: Re: Suggs CAM
Post by: Kam on December 06, 2020, 03:24:22 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 06, 2020, 01:10:53 PM
Kam.

Today is the first day of full team workouts for the 2020-2021 Knicks. 

Suggs?  The 2022 Draft Lottery? 

Perhaps we are getting a bit ahead of ourselves, hmmmmmm?

Hear me out Chip...
In any other season we would be talking about the draft right now. 
Only because this season is starting late it seems to be getting ahead of ourselves.
UNLESS you believe we are playoff bound...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 06, 2020, 04:02:13 PM
Program note

KENTUCKY at Georgia Tech  ESPN 5 PM
Title: Re: Suggs CAM
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 06, 2020, 04:05:23 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 06, 2020, 03:24:22 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 06, 2020, 01:10:53 PM
Kam.

Today is the first day of full team workouts for the 2020-2021 Knicks. 

Suggs?  The 2022 Draft Lottery? 

Perhaps we are getting a bit ahead of ourselves, hmmmmmm?

Hear me out Chip...
In any other season we would be talking about the draft right now. 
Only because this season is starting late it seems to be getting ahead of ourselves.
UNLESS you believe we are playoff bound...

Chip believes we are "learn how to win" bound.

First to say TANK is a nincumpoop.
Title: Who the f' cares about 2022?
Post by: lesterluv on December 06, 2020, 04:30:23 PM
gotta learn to enjoy the moment!

late 2020 just keeps getting more and more sublime...

https://twitter.com/EmmaVigeland/status/1335681731874205698
 (https://twitter.com/EmmaVigeland/status/1335681731874205698)
https://twitter.com/mhdksafa/status/1335692889570029570
 (https://twitter.com/mhdksafa/status/1335692889570029570)https://twitter.com/DiscussingFilm/status/1335682157885448194
 (https://twitter.com/DiscussingFilm/status/1335682157885448194)https://twitter.com/TheKronicKat/status/1335691185294348289 (https://twitter.com/TheKronicKat/status/1335691185294348289)

Can't wait for Kiid's posthumous siggy tribute!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 06, 2020, 04:59:24 PM
No one is saying 2022.
The draft is in 7 months.
This last draft was discussed for longer.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 06, 2020, 05:42:59 PM
You go right on ahead Kam. I salute you and your foresightedness!

Personally, I can't focus on that.  Too busy looking forward to Obi's debut and working with my research team trying to figure out how many people Rudy exposed through his gaseous emissions.


From what I am told
@JennaEllisEsq
 if it was a wet fart by Rudy or if he farted on his hand and touched you then you probably have COVID. So, you should probably get tested like ASAP and you can always defend yourself in traffic court if you get a ticket on the way to doctors.


*** Go on, Go on, Herman's up there waiting for ya!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 06, 2020, 06:06:55 PM
Start with the republican caucus in every swing state legislature and work out from there.

Great party, for idiots & ghouls.

I’m looking forward to Barrett and Burks on the wings.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 06, 2020, 06:08:44 PM
http://empiresportsmedia.com/new-york-knicks/new-york-knicks-thibodeau-likes-ntilikinas-defensive-versatility/ (http://empiresportsmedia.com/new-york-knicks/new-york-knicks-thibodeau-likes-ntilikinas-defensive-versatility/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 06, 2020, 08:52:58 PM
Training camp roster

https://twitter.com/IanBegley/status/1335597863238324224/photo/1

Daisuke Yoshimoto is new

BARRETT now listed as a G/F
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 06, 2020, 09:41:37 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 06, 2020, 08:52:58 PM

BARRETT now listed as a G/F

I'm interested in seeing Barrett as a SF.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 06, 2020, 09:59:06 PM
And Rivers as a starter at the 2?

DSJ, AR, RJB, JR, MR
EP, Alec, RBul, OT, NN
FN, EQ, KK, IB, OS
(JH, TP, MP, JE, MKG)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 06, 2020, 10:01:23 PM
Didn't mention starting.   Just wanna see him play some more SF.  See if he can play multiple positions.

If Knox is not long for this team then maybe we see Barrett take the spot and we draft a big guard or two.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 06, 2020, 10:16:23 PM
Exactly the plan - add free agency in there as well

Cunningham
McCollum
Barrett
Toppin
Robinson
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 06, 2020, 10:22:03 PM
NYK: CJ McCollum, Zach Collins

POR: Julius Randle, Frank Ntilikina, 2021 1st Round Pick (via LAC), 2021 1st Round Pick (via DAL), 2023 1st Round Pick (via DAL)


https://www.nbaanalysis.net/2020/12/05/this-knicks-trail-blazers-trade-features-cj-mccollum-to-new-york/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 07, 2020, 02:11:03 AM
Knix get the 2 best players in the deal at the cost of just 3 late 1st rounders.
Yeah, sure.  I guess POR decides they want less shooting and worse talent.  Vaguely possible if Zach is damaged goods.  And I guess you can tinker to make or or two of those picks Knix 1st rounders.  But I wouldn't do it unless they threw in Melo ...

Click-bait trade site.
Title: Alan Hahn on Frank Ntiikina
Post by: Kam on December 07, 2020, 02:43:17 AM
"All three men who have coached him have said the same thing; I never know what i'm getting from him. One game he's locked in, the next game..."

https://youtu.be/aGdNNpG1xZE?t=2312 (https://youtu.be/aGdNNpG1xZE?t=2312)

and later he also said ... "I'd rather Frank play the backup PG than Elfrid Payton"

Hahn really doesn't like Payton.
Title: Hahns starting 5 prediction
Post by: Kam on December 07, 2020, 03:07:27 AM
Dennis
RJ
Bullock
Randle
Mitch


Then he added: "but i can see a scenario where maybe Bullock doesn't start and they put Obi there at the 3 if he looks like he can handle it"
Title: Hahn on Mitch
Post by: Kam on December 07, 2020, 03:13:24 AM
Hahn noted that there were questions about Mitch's professionalism from the coaching staff.  He hints that Mitch might have not always been on time to practices in the past and oftentimes would commit frustration fouls when someone stole a rebound from him.  That stuff won't fly under Thibs. 

And Hahn noted that Nerlens Noel isn't here to automatically back-up Mitch but to compete to start.  Noel does a lot of the same thing Mitch does, shoots 65% and most of his shots are dunks.
Title: Re: Hahns starting 5 prediction
Post by: bodiddley on December 07, 2020, 04:43:00 AM
Quote from: Kam on December 07, 2020, 03:07:27 AM
Dennis
RJ
Bullock
Randle
Mitch

I could see that because once you put Jr. Smith out there as a starter you really can't add Knox or you'd have 4 sub-par defenders + Mitch.  Bullox at least gives you another average and aware defender.  And gets 2 vets in the starting 5.

It'd also likely be the worst 3-point shooting starting lineup in the NBofA.
Wouldn't teams just clog the paint and take away drives and oops to Mitch, daring our non-shooters to shoot?  Might also be the worst ballhandlng/passing team in the NBA as well.

I also see it as 50/50 whether Jr. Smith gets replaced at starting PG by about the 25th game or so.

I'd probably go with:
Elf
RJB
Knox (or Toppings if his 3-ball is solid)
Randle
Mitch 

But again you'd need either Knox or RJB to be able to hit 3's at 35% or better to make it work.

There's certainly an op for Au Revoir or Burks to nab a starting spot because they can make a 3 and bounce the ball.  but we need a 3&D guy and Bullocks is our closest approximation.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 07, 2020, 04:47:07 AM
I like Rivers and Burks in the rotation.  I think they represent the type of veteran Bullock did last year.   Solid.  Professional.  2-way ability.  Rudders.

I don't see either starting too many games.  Although Rivers might just take the PG spot after some time.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 07, 2020, 04:48:53 AM
Mitch just signed with new representation.  That's like his 5th or 6th agent already.  Rumor has it he's not very happy, perhaps contractually.  That could also be why you hear Thibs say he is looking for more professionalism out of Mitch. 

Title: Click Bait Trade HORSESHIT
Post by: chipstern on December 07, 2020, 07:22:22 AM
I am so very weary of CLICK BAIT bloggers spreading internet disinformation and projecting their faux trade circle jerks as if they were somehow tethered to reality. 

Some have us giving away our entire team. 

Some have us engaging in highway robbery.

Towns
McCollum
Ball

The Ball trade I saw had us giving up Smith, Knox and two #2 draft picks.  Haha

NONE OF THESE PLAYERS IS ON THE MARKET.  Get over it. 

Want further evidence as to CLICK BAIT Crapola?

2021 1st Round Pick (via LAC)

There is NO #1 pick from the Clippers. 

Small detail, eh?  As I recollect, we might have negotiated the option of flipping #1 picks in 2021, but the Clippers #1 pick from the Morris Trade is on our roster: Immanuel Quickley. 

(https://slangit.com/img/slang/clickbait_4074.jpg)

Lord. 
Title: Exhibit A: Judge & Thibodeau
Post by: chipstern on December 07, 2020, 09:21:13 AM
I have not been much of a football enthusiast for some time, as the many apsects of the modern game don't appeal to me.  I'm not campaigining for Woody Hayes and a clould of dust....

But there is something to be said for DEFENSE and RUSHING the football. 

Much to my suprise, I have found myself emotionally invested in Saquon Barkley becuse of his gifts as a rusher and an all around athelete, and Daniel Jones, as a passer AND a rusher AND as a young man who sucked it up and took all of the abuse of the media and the fans who thought the Giants we nuts for making such a reach in the draft....and who learned from his mistakes and got better.   

Long story short, the Giants culture has been mired in mediocrity due to, among many things, an unstable culture due to some sappy coaches. 

Coach Joe Judge appears to have changed that. 

The Giants season began inauspicously, and while they were often close losses, they were LOSSES. 

He kept faith in his system, he kept faith in the process, he kept faith in his players, and he kept faith in his quarterback's development through thick and thin, and idiots in the media calling for his benching. 

Yesterday, the Giants defense, complex and well coached, played with incredible spirit and energy, including among others, Leonard Williams, who was denigrated by the media as an underachiever who was not a good pass rusher and for whom the Giants' GM was excoriated at giving up a third round draft pick.  Likewise the Odell Beckham trade which garnered Jabril Peppers.  Likewise drafting OT Andrew Thomas who notably struggled through the first half of the season.  Likewise the entire 2020 draft class. 

Georgia OT Andrew Thomas, Round 1, Pick 4
Alabama S Xavier McKinney, Round 2, Pick 36
UConn OT Matt Peart, Round 3, Pick 99
UCLA CB Darnay Holmes, Round 4, Pick 110
Oregon G Shane Lemieux, Round 5, Pick 150
Penn State LB Cam Brown, Round 6, Pick 183
Minnesota LB Carter Coughlin, Round 7, Pick 218
South Carolina LB T.J. Brunson, Round 7, Pick 238
Minnesota CB Chris Williamson, Round 7, Pick 247
Georgia LB Tae Crowder, Round 7, Pick 255

A couple of weeks ago, Judge fired his offensive line coach, because he wanted to rotate offensive linemen to SPED THE DEVELOPMENT OF HIS YOUNGSTERS. 

Well, yesterday, they all came through, with tough D, a veteran backup QB in Colt McCoy, and a running game by committee that came through like a motherfucker, with their young offensive line competing at a high level.  God do I love Wayne Gallman...old school running back. 

(https://cdn.newsday.com/polopoly_fs/1.50084346.1607323589!/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_456/image.jpg)

The GIANTS beat one of the top teams in the NFL, and put so much pressure on one of the best QBs, as Williams had two sacks, as he and his linemates put lots of pressure on Wilson, while Peppers and veteran Logan Ryan and their late round linebackers played with great focus and coherence.

(https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/oaoa.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/c/2b/c2bcc0e0-1da3-533d-9dc5-902162185b0c/5fcd9461d4157.image.jpg?resize=300%2C200)

I mention this in passing because I believe in Tom Thibodeau and this Knicks roster, with its mix of vets and youth, we have a chance at finally putting the grotesque miscues which have dominated the past 20 years, let alone the past five or so behind us. 

A SYSTEM
ACCOUNTABILITY

Judge has started to see results and by no means have the Giants arrived, but he has raised the bar, and empowered top flight offensive and defensive coordinators. 

Thibs is at the very beginning of our own....PROCESS.  And while there is scant evidence to hang one's hat on in the days before this Friday's first preseason game....well...I like our puppies, I like the free agents we brought on board and I like Thibs. 

Some people don't like this team.  FAIR ENOUGH.  These are our KNICKS we're talking about.  But there is no doubt Thibs has conveyed his message and raised the bar, and it remains to be seen how Obi talks it and how Obi walks it and how Obi evolves and comes back after getting torched by fours, fives and threes who will test him and torch him...how Knox and Smith and Frank respond to Thibs' implicit challenge and all those who have written them off.  Not least being the "fans" who blithely dismiss Obi as a loser on defense. 

(https://empiresportsmedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/Obi-Toppin-768x619.jpg)

There are considerable stumbles awaiting us.  But with players buying into a coach such as Judge, such as Thibodeau, this season is hardly a slow motion sprint to the draft lottery. 

ONWARDS
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 07, 2020, 11:13:05 AM
Yeah I guess a mistake was made including that Clips #1 in the McCollum deal.

Point is cJ is very likely a guy we are looking at.

I do agree that at least to start the year POR sees Lillard and McCollum competing for a West crown and staying together indefinitely (only reason for the musing is CJ is a FA after this season).
Title: RECEIVED WISDOM
Post by: chipstern on December 07, 2020, 11:52:42 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 07, 2020, 11:13:05 AM
Yeah I guess a mistake was made including that Clips #1 in the McCollum deal.

Point is cJ is very likely a guy we are looking at.

I do agree that at least to start the year POR sees Lillard and McCollum competing for a West crown and staying together indefinitely (only reason for the musing is CJ is a FA after this season).

There is no more likelihood of Portland parting CJ from Dame than there was of breaking up Dumars and Isiah.  CJ a free agent to be?  Okay.  Did the Raptors ever let VanVleet get a sniff? 

These "deals" are all nonsensical fabircations.  ABSRUD ON THE FACE OF IT.  Knicks have targetted him?  What's the over/under in Vegas? 

I mean, have your fun, everybody.  Concocting trade scenarios is one of the enduring perks of participating in a foru, such as this. 

Curious how few of them ever rise to the level of reality. 

I mean, look at the Knicks roster moves. 

Did anyone on this forum or in the media project Burks, Spellman, Noel, Rivers?  Reupping Bullock?  Sure, friendly contract, and a 3&D wing. 

But dropping Payton then reupping him for 3 million less?  There WAS speculation about Kidd-Gilchrist. 

For that matter, did anyone see Hayward to Charlotte or the Wall-Westbrook trade? 

When it comes to "deals" seldom is there both smoke and fire. 

For that matter, mock drafts. 

Minnesota Timberwolves —Anthony Edwards, SG, Georgia.
Golden State Warriors —James Wiseman, C, Memphis.
Charlotte Hornets —Lamelo Ball, PG.

Everyone presumed they would drop in some order at 1-2-3. 

But I didn't see ANYONE PROJECTING these three picks.

Chicago Bulls —Patrick Williams, F, Florida State.
Cleveland Cavaliers —Isaac Okoro, SF, Auburn.
Atlanta Hawks—Oneyka Okongwu, PF, US.

Which is how Killian, Obi and Devi dropped happily in the laps of the Pistons, Knicks and Wizards at 7-8-9. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 07, 2020, 01:39:39 PM
When I asked Porter if he was ready to the third star in Denver alongside Nikola Jokic and Jamal Murray, he had a very short and simple answer: “Yeah, I am.” Confidence has never been Porter’s issue. He’s had plenty of it since, well, birth. But now when he says a statement like that, there’s some meat to its bones. And it’s good timing because the Nuggets need Porter to be the star he says he’s ready to be. – via Kendra Andrews @ The Athletic


heh

we took Kevin Knox

------

Watching KY vs GT right now

Terrence Clark an impressive jump shooter.
Brandon Boston was in early foul trouble after hitting one 3.

Ky comes in at 1-2, GT at 0-2.  KY was 3-31 3 point shooting fiorst three games.  Better today

GT has MOSES WRIGHT, an old school big guy with soft hands, touch and a toughness from the 80s.  6-9 I think.  Not sure of a perimeter game.

Wright and Clarke 15 each at the half.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 07, 2020, 01:42:45 PM
There is no more likelihood of Portland parting CJ from Dame than there was of breaking up Dumars and Isiah.  CJ a free agent to be?  Okay.  Did the Raptors ever let VanVleet get a sniff?


They won a title with Van Vleet

No evidence McCollum-Dame will work long term in terms of advancing deep in playoffs.  Did make a conference final but lost in 4 straight
Title: Heh
Post by: chipstern on December 07, 2020, 01:46:23 PM
Marc Berman: Thibodeau says Kevin Knox has had two very good practices so far. Good sign. – via Twitter NYPost_Berman

Stefan Bondy: Thibodeau on Kevin Knox: “When he takes good shots, they go in.” – via Twitter SBondyNYDN
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 07, 2020, 01:51:12 PM
Stefan Bondy: Thibodeau on Kevin Knox: “When he takes good shots, they go in.” – via Twitter SBondyNYDN


That would be a nice change
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 07, 2020, 01:59:30 PM
Nearly all of the work Porter did over the offseason incorporated him spending time at shooting guard, small forward and power forward. He worked on setting screens and popping as a four would do, coming off the ball screen as the ball handler and utilizing his size for setting screens. “I was really consistent in my work off the court,” Porter said. “I feel that I’ll be better this year in almost every area than I was last year.” – via Kendra Andrews @ The Athletic


Dream player

But we got Knox, so there...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 07, 2020, 02:22:12 PM
Hopefully I will have more time to watch complete collegiate games as I just did.

Yeah - TERRENCE CLARK was a standout for Kentucky.  6-7, 194 out of Boston
I also liked Isiah Jackson - 6-10, 206 out of Pontiac.

Moses Wright - as I mentioned - for Tech - late bloomer - played just 1 year of HS and AAU hoops - and just turned 22 years old.  Does a bit of everything but not a leaper.  Tough dude.  Scorer.  Potential leader.  Second round look,

TOPPIN's little bro Jacob plays for KY.  Interesting - he wears the 0 - I guess for his bro
(A soph - 5 points, 4 boards early in 18 minutes on 42/28/65 shooting).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 07, 2020, 03:45:29 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 07, 2020, 01:39:39 PM
When I asked Porter if he was ready to the third star in Denver alongside Nikola Jokic and Jamal Murray, he had a very short and simple answer: “Yeah, I am.” Confidence has never been Porter’s issue. He’s had plenty of it since, well, birth. But now when he says a statement like that, there’s some meat to its bones. And it’s good timing because the Nuggets need Porter to be the star he says he’s ready to be. – via Kendra Andrews @ The Athletic


heh

we took Kevin Knox


Porter was injured and we were hoping not to have to wait over a year for returns.
Title: GIANT FORUM
Post by: Kam on December 07, 2020, 03:46:00 PM
Chip, you're welcome to the Giants forum any time.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 07, 2020, 04:04:20 PM
Thibs says Knox is banging. Rivers has a groin strain. Dial back all expectations of how he’ll contribute at least for the first few months.

It might be Rivers and Evans cut out of camp.

Mitch Noel Spellman
Randle Toppin MKG
Barrett Knox Iggy
Burks Bullock Quickley
Payton Ntilikina Smith
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 07, 2020, 04:14:55 PM
Is Thibs talk of youth and athleticism a foreshadowing that we will be a pressing uptempo team?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 07, 2020, 04:48:14 PM
Do you mean on Friday or all season?

Our oldest potential lineup with the most experience

Noel
Randle
Bullock
Burks
Payton

Austin has been in the league awhile, but groin.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 07, 2020, 04:49:12 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 07, 2020, 03:45:29 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 07, 2020, 01:39:39 PM
When I asked Porter if he was ready to the third star in Denver alongside Nikola Jokic and Jamal Murray, he had a very short and simple answer: “Yeah, I am.” Confidence has never been Porter’s issue. He’s had plenty of it since, well, birth. But now when he says a statement like that, there’s some meat to its bones. And it’s good timing because the Nuggets need Porter to be the star he says he’s ready to be. – via Kendra Andrews @ The Athletic


heh

we took Kevin Knox


Porter was injured and we were hoping not to have to wait over a year for returns.


True, but considering it was a TANK YEAR under Fizz, and our player development was Mudiay, Vonleh, that big white stretch 4, ALL OF WHOM WE LET GO THAT SUMMER, Letting Porter ice it was not an untenable notion. 

I still think Knox is going to be a player. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 07, 2020, 04:51:26 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 07, 2020, 04:14:55 PM
Is Thibs talk of youth and athleticism a foreshadowing that we will be a pressing uptempo team?

Yup

Defense and playing at a faster pace are priorities he has flaoted. 

Toppin and Quickley fit that bill. 

So does Dennis Smith unless he is totally snake bit as a Knick. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 07, 2020, 04:53:05 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 07, 2020, 04:14:55 PM
Is Thibs talk of youth and athleticism a foreshadowing that we will be a pressing uptempo team?

We're not 100% sure, but we do know with certainty that Rudy G. is the gift that keeps on giving!

“We know that the two days before someone develops symptoms, before they test positive, are the times when they are most infectious,” Ranney told CNN. “So Giuliani has not just exposed himself and caught COVID, but he has potentially exposed hundreds and hundreds of Trump supporters to the virus during his most infectious phase.”

Arizona Legislature shuts down...
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcevoy/2020/12/07/arizona-legislature-shuts-down-georgia-lawmaker-sends-out-warning-after-giuliani-tests-positive-for-covid-19/?sh=394e44e442f7 (https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcevoy/2020/12/07/arizona-legislature-shuts-down-georgia-lawmaker-sends-out-warning-after-giuliani-tests-positive-for-covid-19/?sh=394e44e442f7)

Michigan shuts down...
https://detroit.cbslocal.com/2020/12/07/michigan-house-cancels-voting-session-after-giuliani-tests-positive-for-covid-19/ (https://detroit.cbslocal.com/2020/12/07/michigan-house-cancels-voting-session-after-giuliani-tests-positive-for-covid-19/)

He's a one man wrecking crew!


***and speaking of the Rona, Harden can't even practice with the team if he even shows up because of NBA quarantine rules so I'd expect that situation to resolve itself sooner rather than later.
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/30470975/houston-rockets-coach-no-table-james-harden-report (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/30470975/houston-rockets-coach-no-table-james-harden-report)
Title: Barrack Obama talks Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 07, 2020, 06:36:25 PM
https://twitter.com/i/status/1335996265809657856 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1335996265809657856)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 07, 2020, 06:59:16 PM
Obama clowning us!!

lol

We're even getting clowned in the Harden mess

Sports Illustrated's Rohan Nadkarni reports that a person familiar with superstar James Harden's thinking described the Rockets' culture as toxic and called them the "Knicks of the South."

We are indeed the Rudy Giuliani of the NBA (minus the Covid-infested wet farts)

But hopefully, this will all begin to change soon!
Title: Select Quotes ...and a coda
Post by: carlos123 on December 07, 2020, 07:42:29 PM
LES:

Quote from: lesterluv on December 07, 2020, 04:53:05 PM

We're not 100% sure, but we do know with certainty that Rudy G. is the gift that keeps on giving!

“Giuliani has not just exposed himself and caught COVID, but he has potentially exposed hundreds and hundreds of Trump supporters to the virus during his most infectious phase.”

Arizona Legislature shuts down...

Michigan shuts down...

He's a one man wrecking crew!


KAMSTER:

The Liquidsilver Project

CHAMACO CARTERO:

Rest in peace, Harrison Deal

coda, aka future obit to be posted by Chamaco:

Rest in peace, Rudy Giuliani

(https://media.tenor.com/images/f45dc3deb54ae86b9276bd0aaa790972/tenor.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 07, 2020, 11:17:48 PM
It wasn't just Porter likely missing a year.  There was talk that his career might be in danger and his spinal fusion surgery was a big red flag.  No one doubted the guy was a Top 3 talent, just would he hold up to the NBA grind with fragile vertebrae.

I liked solid 2-way Mikal Bridges.
I thought we needed a sure thing.

It is an open question, if we were willing to gamble on young raw Knox, why not gamble on Porter.  Though health/injury is a different gamble.
Hell, Knox can still come through and Porter can still have a recurrence, or could never have gotten right.

One that we really missed was Shai, who was a late riser and went 2 slots after Knox, between the Bridges.  Shai dropped 19 & 6 boards & 3 assists last year.  Been a league average 3-shooter both years.  And just a crafty player.

I can understand with 4 interesting SF prospects on board that we overlooked Shai, but he would have been a prized pick.  Then again having steady smart 3&D Mikal Bridges would have been real nice.

Let's hope Knox plays harder and smarter.  I wasn't more aggression out of the lad.  Use that body to move folks out of your way.  And focus in on D.

We did get Mitch in that same draft.
So just pretend we drafted Mitch #9 and Knox #36.
Pretty solid draft that way ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 08, 2020, 12:09:40 AM
Looks like a good 2nd round in 2018:

1st Tier:
Mitch
Devonte Graham
Brunson burner
Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk (shot 40% on 3's for DET)
Shake Milton
___________________________

Others:
Trent Jr.  (42% on 3's last year)
Kurucs

Defenders:
Okobo
Bates-Diop

Also:
Alize Johnson
Jevon Carter
Mel Frazier
& plenty of guys I don't know
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 08, 2020, 12:41:42 AM
I hear we may be adding Skal and another KU guy, a wing I think, both for exhibit 10s. That would imply there’d be some cuts before the cuts to make it work.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 08, 2020, 10:30:26 AM
Pretty sure Exhibit 10s do not count against roster maxes

NBA teams can sign up to SIX Exhibit 10 players.  These players get camp invites and if their contracts are not converted to 2-way or standard NBA deal they are waived and have the opportunity to stay with their team's NBA G-league affiliate - at 2 months/50K rate or prorated portion of it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 08, 2020, 10:34:55 AM
Basically

a)  stockpiles guys a team may wish to end up as two-way players (needs to happen before opening night - theoretically could have 8 guys fighting for those 2 slots))
b)  keeps players from going to Europe/China/AUS, etc
(max 50K bonus is on top of their G-league salary)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 08, 2020, 12:46:22 PM
They count against camp maxes. Myles Powell is the easy one. Cut him a couple of days before the deadline and he can go right to Westchester. I think either Theo or Harper lose a two-way spot unless MKG does not in fact make the roster due to great defensive strides from Knox and or Iggy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 08, 2020, 01:00:53 PM
Pinson and Harper - 2-way contracts

MKG and Powell - Exhibit 10

We were at 20 so one guy was going anyway.  16 to get to 15.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 08, 2020, 01:56:15 PM
We have twenty in camp. Exhibit10 contracts have to be executed in camp. To bring in Skal and James Young we have to tell two guys not making the main roster their time is up prior to the cut down date to get the two new Cats onboard.

If they are exhibit 10 guys, Powell & MKG, they can go right to the GLeague. That won’t necessarily be the way it works out.

After that we have to trim to a 15 that probably won’t involve Pinson and Harper who could start on their two ways unless someone else being more deserving of one of those spots bumps them out.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 08, 2020, 02:04:14 PM
It appears Young was signed straight to Westchester

Interesting guy

Israeli top league scoring champ last year, for guys that favor Devi
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 08, 2020, 02:14:02 PM
If they are exhibit 10 guys, Powell & MKG, they can go right to the GLeague. That won’t necessarily be the way it works out.


clear waivers first

Every other team needs to pass.

So if they are worried about losing MKG for instance they could waive Harper (sorry, Chip) and give Kidd-Gilchrist the 2-way
Title: 2021 Draft
Post by: Kam on December 08, 2020, 02:52:29 PM
The excitement around the draft feels like it's back. Scouts joked months ago about fast-forwarding to 2021 during a prolonged 2020 process that lacked obvious star power to study. And now that we're here, evaluating new talent, most top prospects are delivering early.

NBA talent evaluators have already pinpointed at least three prospects who could have gone No. 1 over Anthony Edwards, including Jalen Green, despite the fact he hasn't played a game yet with the G League Ignite.

Oklahoma State's Cade Cunningham and USC's Evan Mobley are the other two who've generated the most reaction when discussing the class' No. 1 prospect. But other freshmen have also emerged in the conversation, and it has scouts feeling good about the depth of the 2021 class.



https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2918974-2021-nba-draft-buzz-scouts-see-3-prospects-who-wouldve-been-2020-no-1-pick (https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2918974-2021-nba-draft-buzz-scouts-see-3-prospects-who-wouldve-been-2020-no-1-pick)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 08, 2020, 03:38:28 PM
We’re guard and wing heavy enough that Skal & MKG could wind up as our two-ways.

Mitch Noel Spellman
Randle Obi
Barrett Knox Iggy
Burks Bullock Quickley Rivers
Payton Frank DSJ

MKG SKal
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 08, 2020, 03:43:50 PM
This means Evans, Powell, Harper, Young, and Pinson will see the waiver and move on from there, hopefully some to Westchester.

Maybe James Young makes it over one of the other Cats in this scoring focused league.
Title: Rumor has it
Post by: Kam on December 08, 2020, 04:26:26 PM
Rumor was that Randle+Frank were on their way to the Kings for Buddy Heild but the Kings wanted the Dallas pick and the Knicks balked.

That might be why the Knicks are kicking the tires on these big men.   In case the trade warms up again.

This is probably Randle's last year with the team regardless.  So it makes sense to get a look at some guys.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 08, 2020, 04:39:34 PM
Well-crafted deal on both sides
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 08, 2020, 06:52:24 PM
Ian Begley

Knicks will sign Andrew White III to an Exhibit 10 deal, league sources confirm. NYK has 20 players under contract, need to waive a player to add White III, Skal Labissiere or James Young. White III played for NYK's G League team last year. ESPN first reported White III's signing
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 08, 2020, 07:04:18 PM
White and Young seem pretty comparable. Both are nice pieces, plug-n-play wings who will get you a bucket.
Title: Re: Rumor has it
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 08, 2020, 07:46:23 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 08, 2020, 04:26:26 PM
Rumor was that Randle+Frank were on their way to the Kings for Buddy Heild but the Kings wanted the Dallas pick and the Knicks balked.

That might be why the Knicks are kicking the tires on these big men.   In case the trade warms up again.

This is probably Randle's last year with the team regardless.  So it makes sense to get a look at some guys.

Isn't this actually the deal I had up on the forum a number of days back?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 08, 2020, 08:00:20 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 08, 2020, 06:52:24 PM
Ian Begley

Knicks will sign Andrew White III to an Exhibit 10 deal, league sources confirm. NYK has 20 players under contract, need to waive a player to add White III, Skal Labissiere or James Young. White III played for NYK's G League team last year. ESPN first reported White III's signing

He's a shooter (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3qjUCvnvJk&feature=emb_logo). 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 08, 2020, 08:01:39 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 04, 2020, 06:10:58 PM
One way to ensure Obi gets max minutes:

Buddy Hield for Julius Randle and a protected first rounder.

They can have Frank as well, give us a warm body back and/or a second.

Why yes.. it WAS.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 08, 2020, 08:03:25 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 04, 2020, 08:20:06 PM
I didnt make it up

Sac wants picks - and a salary match puts Randle - a great scorer - sorry - in play.

I am sure Knicks

a)  come up short on pick offer(s)

and/or

b)  dont wish to give up Randle in this one.

Yep
Title: Genius
Post by: carlos123 on December 08, 2020, 08:13:23 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 08, 2020, 08:03:25 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 04, 2020, 08:20:06 PM
I didnt make it up

Sac wants picks - and a salary match puts Randle - a great scorer - sorry - in play.

I am sure Knicks

a)  come up short on pick offer(s)

and/or

b)  dont wish to give up Randle in this one.

Yep

Which proves that our own Chamaco Cartero is a genius.

Now, Rest in peace, peace Rudy G.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 08, 2020, 08:23:28 PM
Well he says he didn't make it up.  So if reading something somewhere makes one a genius then ok.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 08, 2020, 08:52:22 PM
That's right

Didn't make up that Hield was available
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 08, 2020, 08:55:14 PM
So sorry forum pet Frank has to be involved

Is there middle ground between the pick Sacramento seeks and what we would give?  We shall see.

Buddy and Obi as new starters sure is considered a shakeup.  Get it done Leon.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 08, 2020, 09:27:07 PM
At the moment, fuck Buddy Hield. Let him refine his game on someone else’s dime and maybe pick him up on his next discounted contract. He’s just a little better than Hardaway who isn’t worth what he gets paid.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 08, 2020, 09:47:11 PM
We haven't had a HIELD since Allan.  Unless you count Fredette.
Title: Genius (2)
Post by: carlos123 on December 08, 2020, 09:51:14 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 08, 2020, 08:23:28 PM
Well he says he didn't make it up.  So if reading something somewhere makes one a genius then ok.

Compared to most other Chamaco's posts, this one is sorta reasonable, genius by comparison, admittedly to a very, very low bar. Example:
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 08, 2020, 09:47:11 PM
We haven't had a HIELD since Allan.  Unless you count Fredette.

But still...

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3ckosSoTRHGXG4k-OCA2pVXfzewhXuzBYoGpsyMZVnzDq9ClI46oruQhbgSzQ9NiWcRnXh17QQU1T2E-x8FKtLT4EzHS0NTRyTH3a3D_76D71Q-i9VLGdWCOYKW1N7yNCrXtD_KYx0uYx_1P39yT7qh=w368-h570-no?authuser=0)
Rest in peace, Rudy G.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 08, 2020, 09:54:38 PM
If Knicks pass with Sac it will be because Leon sees a better Randle deal down the road.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 09, 2020, 04:55:31 AM
I'd take Hield over Randle.
Both scored around 19 Pts per last year, but Hield was jacking 9.4 trips and hits them at a good rate.  A more modern player.
Of course that's why we'd have to throw in a 1st rounder.  And a Franc.

For NYK it would give us more shooting and floor spacing.
While making more sense of our roster by allocating minutes to all our long-term players and reducing journeymen to the proper backup roles.  Hield - RJB - Toppings - Mitch would be our men going forward, and all of them would start with ample minutes available for Knox. Opens up the PF slot for Toppings, where we'd be somewhat thin, but provides more minutes for Knox and even a role for MKG.  Limits the Alec Burks Experience.  And the Au Revoir Show.

Be losing a DAL 1st rounder (say around #22 pick) and Franc, and we'd be committing long term 4/$88 to Hield, a $25M decreasing salary.

Hield seems to me a guy who got a bit of a big head and is never that locked in on defense.  (hey, give me $25 Large a year and my head might zeppelin up too).
So starting Hield, RJB and Toppings, our defense would likely be pretty awful.
But if ObiT can hit some 3's, we'd have a decently balanced offense.

Hield turns 28 next week, so entering his prime.
Hield is a big time shooter, but doesn't really impact winning much (except a few games where he gets super-hot).  Lost his starting SG slot last year to Bogdan who is more versatile and sharper.  Then moped about it.
At least Buddy is a stellar FT shooter -- not that he ever gets there.

Not sure why SAC didn't just match Bogdanx2 at $18M and then flip Hield.
They're really counting on rook Ty Hal to hold down the SG slot (if they move Hield)?  they seem to like bruisers inside, Bagley, Rich Holmes, Whiteside ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 09, 2020, 05:43:03 AM
Financially the deal doesn't even need to include Randle.  Hield for Frank works too. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 09, 2020, 07:06:52 AM
Excising Randle is part of the appeal ...
Title: Zzzzzzzzz
Post by: chipstern on December 09, 2020, 07:45:47 AM
There IS NO Buddy Hield Traction. 

PERIOD. 

Click Bait CaCa. 

Thank GOD, there is an actual factual game on the telly this Friday so we can move beyond these absurd baseless fantasies. 
Title: Friday
Post by: chipstern on December 09, 2020, 08:32:40 AM
Looking forward to finally seeing PG Killian Hayes in action.  Interesting that he jumped so far ahead of Haliburton and Lewis in the draft. 

Besides the veteran presence of Blake Griffin and Derrick Rose, made some interesting pickups, most notably Jerami Grant, and less so to Plumlee and Okafor...perhaps displaying late bloomer's potential, such as Knicks are projecting for Noels.  Not on par with Christian Wood.  Interesting that they did not match, unless CW as an UFA. 

Also picked up Wayne Ellington, who I would suspect, in typical Knicks karma, would shoot lights out for DeTroit. 

Sekou Doumbouya

Height:
6' 8

Weight:
230lbs

Stats, which are pretty grim, don't tell the story.  An interesting prospect.  As is Sadiq Bay. 

Oh, and didn't the Pistons ink the remaining Ball Brother? 

Title: PS
Post by: chipstern on December 09, 2020, 08:42:20 AM
James Harden is a great, Great, GREAT PLAYER. 

He is also a massive asshole. 

Don't see either the Nyets or Sexers panting at the bit to gut their teams to bring his talent and ego on board. 

Rockets accomodated him by getting a PG better suited to match up with him, and he is still tossing hissy fits. 

No problem. 

I suspect there is a clause in his contract which stipulates that if you don't show up, you don't get paid. 

Sure he has money in the bank, but....STILL. 

PS: The Nyets have a nice team, two superstars, an excellent supporting cast.  Why gut it?  I applaud Sean Marks for bailing on this BS.  At least in the short term.  Kyrie is a ball dominant talent.  Durant demands lots of touches, as well he might.  LaVert, Dimwiddie, Harris, Allen, Jordan, Shamet, Prince, Green?  That's a nice rotation. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 09, 2020, 10:28:08 AM
Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk was DET's best 3-point shooter last year.
40% on 5 3PtFGA's.

I'd like to see Saddiq Bey -- sounds like a very solid prospect.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 09, 2020, 10:58:31 AM
I think Philly-HOU has some legs.

Still doubt about Simmons

Agree - NETS are very very good

Can we see the 23-year old Kyrie, head-wise - before all the glory?
Title: Re: Friday
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 09, 2020, 11:18:44 AM
Quote from: chipstern on December 09, 2020, 08:32:40 AM
Looking forward to finally seeing PG Killian Hayes in action.  Interesting that he jumped so far ahead of Haliburton and Lewis in the draft. 

Besides the veteran presence of Blake Griffin and Derrick Rose, made some interesting pickups, most notably Jerami Grant, and less so to Plumlee and Okafor...perhaps displaying late bloomer's potential, such as Knicks are projecting for Noels.  Not on par with Christian Wood.  Interesting that they did not match, unless CW as an UFA. 

Also picked up Wayne Ellington, who I would suspect, in typical Knicks karma, would shoot lights out for DeTroit. 

Sekou Doumbouya

Height:
6' 8

Weight:
230lbs

Stats, which are pretty grim, don't tell the story.  An interesting prospect.  As is Sadiq Bay. 

Oh, and didn't the Pistons ink the remaining Ball Brother?

NBATV has team previews in 30-minute blocks

The DETROIT episode may be as close to you SEE of Detroit this season unless you get the T Mobile package.

I think you underrate Plumlee.  And Svi Mikhailiuk has to be in your field of vision.

Josh Jackson also added.  But keys to the team are of course D Rose and Blake Griffin

Promising, I agree

Funny - when you talk about Knicks progression it has to be relative to the East - as many teams seem improved

Who is really BAD on paper this year?  Could we see 13-14 East teams with 30+ wins?  10-11 teams with 36 (.500 mark)?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 09, 2020, 11:52:39 AM
Also picked up Wayne Ellington, who I would suspect, in typical Knicks karma, would shoot lights out for DeTroit.


As he has pretty much everywhere

I think in Burks and Rivers we get 2 better all around talents
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 09, 2020, 12:42:11 PM
In Burks and Bullock we have better talent. Rivers replaces Ellington’s talent level at a much better price point.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 09, 2020, 01:07:19 PM
Bullock had a rough year with the stroke

But a .385 career sniper - and 83 from the line.

UNC guy as well so easy call to give him and his 9.3 PER a second go as a rostered guy

No promises, though I do have him in the ten man.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 09, 2020, 02:31:57 PM
We get Kings-Blazers on ESPN following Knicks-Pistons Friday night.

First look at Tyrese, hopefully - not sure if we see Melo.

Derrick Jones Jr, Covington and Harry Giles the key additions - and of course Kanter is back.

Nassir Little and Anfernee Simons remain their youth to watch.  #46 pick CJ Elleby has been panned by pundits (how dare they take him - I had him 85th!) - so is one to watch off his close to 18 and 8 (good boards for a wing) but sloppy shooting final collegiate season at WASU
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 09, 2020, 02:49:34 PM
Fucking Kupchak!

But, because this is the Knicks, things didn’t go exactly according to plan. They had acquired pick No. 33 with the intention of selecting Duke’s Vernon Carey Jr., but the Hornets swooped in and took him at 32. The Knicks apparently had no interest in rostering a player other than Carey, because they took Minnesota big man Daniel Oturu and promptly traded him to the Clippers for a 2023 second-round pick that was originally Detroit’s.



Good to see Leon and crew had the good eye and that we are getting props.


https://www.si.com/extra-mustard/2020/11/19/nba-draft-new-york-knicks-trades
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 09, 2020, 03:30:51 PM
Skal is a step above either right now. Good move.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 09, 2020, 04:02:42 PM
I think Julius will be here for a while and will have a surprisingly good year. I don’t see having Julius and Obi as a conflict. I’m glad Obi gets to compete with someone of Julius’ caliber. I think we will see them on the floor together for stretches. When we do, I expect Julius to check the more accomplished frontcourt player this year, both because he’s currently better at it and because Obi’s athleticism is more helpful to a defense off ball than it is on ball.
Title: The First Shoe Has Dropped
Post by: chipstern on December 09, 2020, 04:21:49 PM
Ian Begley: Knicks announce they’ve waived Jacob Evans. – via Twitter IanBegley
Title: Junior
Post by: chipstern on December 09, 2020, 04:34:18 PM
Mike Vorkunov: Tom Thibodeau bullish on Knicks PG Dennis Smith Jr. so far: “He’s been very aggressive. I think each day he’s gotten better and better. That’s what we’re asking him to do… He can score the ball and he’s shooting the ball pretty well right now. But he’s making good plays also.” – via Twitter MikeVorkunov

Okay, I'm rooting for Dennis. 

And Thibs has coach speak down. 

So what is there to interpet here? 

Shooting the ball pretty good....

So what then is the bar?  Elfrid Payton?  French Frank?  So pretty good...clearly, much room for imprevement, but....

Very aggressive...making good plays....

What's the bar?  2019 Dennis versus 2020 Dennis. 

Confidence....

Thibs wants to push the tempo...

If Dennis can get us into early offense, hit short Chris Childs' jumpers, and present a consistent threat penetrating to the rack and kicking out to cutters and snipers...oh, and play SMART, on offense AND defense....

We shall see. 

2018-2019, Dennis had a lot of confidence and aggression. 

2019-2020 never knew if or when he was getting minutes...Miller had him buried...was second guessing himself....tentative. 

Yeah, I know, trade value.  K.  Short term, how's about TEAM VALUE?  Not everyone in the orginization has given up on Dennis. 

We shall see. 
Title: Quickey
Post by: chipstern on December 09, 2020, 04:36:43 PM
More ThibsSpeak

Steve Popper: Tom Thibodeau on Immanuel Quickley learning curve: I think the one thing is he’s got a great skill already. He can shoot the ball as well as anyone in the league. He’s a great shooter. Now it’s learning all the other parts of the league and his team. – via Twitter StevePopper
Title: WINGING It
Post by: chipstern on December 09, 2020, 04:44:57 PM
Quite a scrum among the wings [2&3]

Looks like we are going to see a lot of Burks & Rivers at SG, with Quickley coming on in their wake, and perhaps Frank in situational match ups.

Spilling over into RJ, KK and Bullock at SF.  Brazdeikis and Kidd-Gilchrist battling for that 15th spot. 

And real competition between Dennis, Elfrid and Frank at PG.

A lot of bodies, plus the 2-Way and 10 Players. 

Facil can expect a call as to his trade ideas. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 09, 2020, 04:58:35 PM
With Thibs fluffing DSJ like that he’s more likely being shopped than showing out. If he can play near as smart as Ish Smith or Brad Wanamaker, that would be a huge stride and make him a dangerous and valuable player.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 09, 2020, 05:05:33 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 09, 2020, 04:58:35 PM
With Thibs fluffing DSJ like that he’s more likely being shopped than showing out. If he can play near as smart as Ish Smith or Brad Wanamaker, that would be a huge stride and make him a dangerous and valuable player.

Kind of figured you would read it that way.

All of your projections have him leaving town on a Slow Boat To China.

We shall see. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 09, 2020, 05:08:17 PM
DSJ as a dangerous & valuable player would be a good problem to have.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 09, 2020, 05:27:41 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 09, 2020, 05:08:17 PM
DSJ as a dangerous & valuable player would be a good problem to have.

Word
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 09, 2020, 05:34:14 PM
I’m happy to admit I don’t know who’s what or where on this squad at the moment. I’m content to wait and glad it’s only till Friday we can put some eye test to all these pretty words.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 09, 2020, 05:49:31 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 09, 2020, 05:05:33 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 09, 2020, 04:58:35 PM
With Thibs fluffing DSJ like that he’s more likely being shopped than showing out. If he can play near as smart as Ish Smith or Brad Wanamaker, that would be a huge stride and make him a dangerous and valuable player.

Kind of figured you would read it that way.

All of your projections have him leaving town on a Slow Boat To China.

We shall see.

Wanamaker

Yeah.  Let's see that.

Except Dennis is an entirely different cat to the experienced Brad.

I don't want to just see low mistake PG play from Dennis, as GS just paid for from BW.

Need some WOW mixed in, the more the better.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 09, 2020, 05:53:23 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 09, 2020, 05:34:14 PM
I’m happy to admit I don’t know who’s what or where on this squad at the moment. I’m content to wait and glad it’s only till Friday we can put some eye test to all these pretty words.

Was just looking at the roster, and contemplating the 13-14-15 rotation, and the Kidd-Gilchrist/Brazdeikis battle for the final spot. 

Defense Vs. Offense

One would think MKG is Thibs' kind of guy. 

But looking at many of our pickups. 

Noels and MKG spell defense. 

But Toppin, Quickley, Powell among the rooks, Burks, Rivers, Spellman among the free agent/trade targets, all have that 3 point thing going. 

Obviously Thibs values defenders, and MKG is supposed to be a solid locker room guy.

If Iggt can show growth and maturity on the defensive end, he has a chance, because he can shoot, and he can create his own shot.  Iggy is also obviously a lot younger, and the Knicks invested a nice chunk of Dolan's money to move up in the second round to take him, and he evolved nicely in the G League. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 09, 2020, 05:55:37 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 09, 2020, 05:49:31 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 09, 2020, 05:05:33 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 09, 2020, 04:58:35 PM
With Thibs fluffing DSJ like that he’s more likely being shopped than showing out. If he can play near as smart as Ish Smith or Brad Wanamaker, that would be a huge stride and make him a dangerous and valuable player.

Kind of figured you would read it that way.

All of your projections have him leaving town on a Slow Boat To China.

We shall see.

Wanamaker

Yeah.  Let's see that.

Except Dennis is an entirely different cat to the experienced Brad.

I don't want to just see low mistake PG play from Dennis, as GS just paid for from BW.

Need some WOW mixed in, the more the better.

Agree.

For Dennis to make the case for himself, he needs to show that pizazz he had going in the weeks after the trade went down.  Saw some highlights on MSG in recent weeks, and he had an incendiary quality, really aggressive, but in a creative, constructive manner, whereas last season, he seemed lost and out of control.   
Title: Dark Horse
Post by: chipstern on December 09, 2020, 06:03:18 PM
I'm particularly interested in one dark horse.

Omari Spellman. 

Some YouTube highlights I saw of his pro play?

Could put the ball on the floor, take it to the rack, and shoot the daylights out of the three. 

Defense?  Rim Protection?  Ball movement? 

Stay tuned. 

But a Villinova man, and while not Kentucky, that is one hell of a program. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 09, 2020, 06:30:24 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 09, 2020, 05:53:23 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 09, 2020, 05:34:14 PM
I’m happy to admit I don’t know who’s what or where on this squad at the moment. I’m content to wait and glad it’s only till Friday we can put some eye test to all these pretty words.

Was just looking at the roster, and contemplating the 13-14-15 rotation, and the Kidd-Gilchrist/Brazdeikis battle for the final spot. 

Defense Vs. Offense

One would think MKG is Thibs' kind of guy. 

But looking at many of our pickups. 

Noels and MKG spell defense. 

But Toppin, Quickley, Powell among the rooks, Burks, Rivers, Spellman among the free agent/trade targets, all have that 3 point thing going. 

Obviously Thibs values defenders, and MKG is supposed to be a solid locker room guy.

If Iggt can show growth and maturity on the defensive end, he has a chance, because he can shoot, and he can create his own shot.  Iggy is also obviously a lot younger, and the Knicks invested a nice chunk of Dolan's money to move up in the second round to take him, and he evolved nicely in the G League.

LeBron KL Warren Blake Gordon Butler Tobias

Who on our roster would you put on these guys? Who are the 1,2,3 defenders on this roster for those matchups?

Autocorrect loves switching in for on, among other mischief.
Title: Austin Rivers questionable for Friday
Post by: Kam on December 09, 2020, 06:30:42 PM
Who benefits most.... Frank, Alec, MKG?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 09, 2020, 06:35:59 PM
Alec should be starting anyway. In addition to Frank being better, the Knicks have more money invested in him than they do in Austin. You can buy AR out for half his check because he’ll latch on somewhere else especially this year.

Iggy Pinson Harper and Powell are who it effects and potentially helps the most.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 09, 2020, 09:32:55 PM
The only guy I see unnecessarily pubbed here is Powell, who is definitely a G-leaguer to start.

MKG may end up there as well, happy to be playing, making some coin and not having to leave the states just yet.  He'd patiently await an opening.

But of course as I said earlier MKG would need to clear waivers
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 09, 2020, 09:42:29 PM
http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2020/12/9/22166161/report-the-westchester-knicks-are-opting-in-to-the-g-league-bubble (http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2020/12/9/22166161/report-the-westchester-knicks-are-opting-in-to-the-g-league-bubble)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 09, 2020, 11:19:33 PM
Moving Randle at the trade deadline would be good timing, after ObiT gets his feet wet.  Trying to draft both ObiT and Carey makes it clear the commitment to Julius.

I think MKG has a definite role, as he's our only F defender and we have a big whole at SF.  Situationally, they'll be plays or sequences where you need a stop.  Lotta great wing scorers in the NBofA.  Even as just a practice player MKG's effort and awareness will be valuable.

Jr. Smith pushing the pace would be nice if he can do so and stay in control.
Toppings, RJayBee, Mitch (Burks/Rivers) can all run.  Good to try to get easy baskets before defenses get set and we have few ballhandlers/visionaries/cohesion.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 10, 2020, 03:36:28 AM
CBSports picks Mitch as one of their half-dozen likely young breakout players.

Quote
perhaps the most significant development with Mitchell was that he began to learn how to stay out of foul trouble. He didn't draw more than three fouls in any of the final nine games of the season (this is a guy who managed to foul out of four games last season in which he played fewer than 20 minutes). By avoiding foul trouble, Robinson stayed on the floor for nearly 27 minutes per game over that stretch, compared to the 22.6 he played prior to the All-Star break. That could be the key to Robinson having a breakout 2020-21 campaign.

He also said he worked on his 3-point shot this offseason (he's yet to attempt one in his career) and continued to improve his conditioning.

"Basically what I did this summer was still working on getting a jump shot. Did a lot of running. Because I want to be in better shape for the season to help my team out," Robinson said, via SNY. 

If he can stay on the floor, Robinson is a production machine

Some of Mitch's fouls were going for fakes.  As a known shotblocker, smaller guys will pull out multiple fakes on Mitch.  Gotta stay down more.

But sometimes Mitch got fouls because he was tired and relying on athleticism.
Better conditioning could help Mitch be in better position.
Though having weak defenders at the F could mean a lot of rim protection work for Mitch and more ops to get tagged with fouls.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 10, 2020, 03:30:31 PM
I think MKG has a definite role, as he's our only F defender and we have a big whole at SF.  Situationally, they'll be plays or sequences where you need a stop.  Lotta great wing scorers in the NBofA.  Even as just a practice player MKG's effort and awareness will be valuable.


Rivers
Title: Re: Austin Rivers questionable for Friday
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 10, 2020, 03:33:16 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 09, 2020, 06:30:42 PM
Who benefits most.... Frank, Alec, MKG?

Doesnt affect Burks whatsoever.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jerrya on December 10, 2020, 04:46:06 PM
Just made  my annual wager...took the over 23.5 games.  For me it makes the season more interesting.  Would have lost last years but because of the shortened season saved me and I got my money back. ;-)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 10, 2020, 05:59:46 PM
Yahoo basketball fantasy league - free to join, can autodraft

https://basketball.fantasysports.yahoo.com/nba/55605/invitation?key=97e2eeb073c1d87c&soc_trk=lnk&ikey=ccd1068c69119d36

Invite anyone you like
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 10, 2020, 08:34:26 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 10, 2020, 03:30:31 PM
I think MKG has a definite role, as he's our only F defender and we have a big whole at SF.  Situationally, they'll be plays or sequences where you need a stop.  Lotta great wing scorers in the NBofA.  Even as just a practice player MKG's effort and awareness will be valuable.


Rivers

All 6’3” 200 pounds of him on small forwards. Yup. That won’t be his job.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 10, 2020, 08:45:24 PM
NBA not really a  1 v 1 league.

No - you wont see much if any of Kidd-Gilchrist the 4th quarter of any game in '20-'21
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 10, 2020, 08:48:27 PM
If we’re relying on Austin Rivers down the stetch much, it’s due to heavy heavy attrition or because our development staff sucks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 10, 2020, 08:49:37 PM
Thibs points to the two new draftees and Randle and Knox as the four Knicks clearly in the best shape.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 10, 2020, 08:59:40 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 10, 2020, 08:48:27 PM
If we’re relying on Austin Rivers down the stetch much, it’s due to heavy heavy attrition or because our development staff sucks.

Will be totally dependent on the 3s play - but I envision often it to be Barrett with Burks and a PG out there.  Could it be Rivers in defensive possessions late at the 1?  I guess.  But you're right - as a finisher - someone else has to be hurt or struggling for AR to be out there at the 2 spot
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 10, 2020, 09:35:30 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 10, 2020, 08:49:37 PM
Thibs points to the two new draftees and Randle and Knox as the four Knicks clearly in the best shape.

Indictment on RJB. Mitch, and the PGs
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 10, 2020, 09:58:47 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 10, 2020, 08:59:40 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 10, 2020, 08:48:27 PM
If we’re relying on Austin Rivers down the stetch much, it’s due to heavy heavy attrition or because our development staff sucks.

Will be totally dependent on the 3s play - but I envision often it to be Barrett with Burks and a PG out there.  Could it be Rivers in defensive possessions late at the 1?  I guess.  But you're right - as a finisher - someone else has to be hurt or struggling for AR to be out there at the 2 spot

I’d grant AR finishing more likely than AR seeing any time at SF. He’s an undersized SG, a slightly poorer man’s Langston Galloway, so he’ll probably get most of his time in 3 guard lineups.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 10, 2020, 10:44:03 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 10, 2020, 09:35:30 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 10, 2020, 08:49:37 PM
Thibs points to the two new draftees and Randle and Knox as the four Knicks clearly in the best shape.

Indictment on RJB. Mitch, and the PGs

Reporter:  Who looks in good shape to you, Coach?

Thibs names 4 guys to give them some press - isnt gonna name eight.

Not an indictment on anyone.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 11, 2020, 12:14:56 AM
There are actually a few Pistons I’m interested to see

Blake Seku Grant Rose and all three first rounders Hayes Stewart Bey.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 11, 2020, 12:22:13 AM
Watch the white guys as well.  Svi is a hell of a talent.  Cant quibble we didnt take him since we were gifted with MR.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 11, 2020, 12:23:31 AM
Forgot about Svi. Might be why they felt ok letting go of Kennard. I was wondering who their snipers would be.

If I have this right, they changed the playoff format but not the lottery this year, meaning there is a possibility of grabbing the 9th or 10th slot, having a great character and profile building playoff run, then, if you have another unprotected pick of a team that also falls in the lottery, of heading into the offseason with two high lotto picks to consider.

There’s not much of a chance, but it is a sweet spot to contemplate, with the chip,1,2 being the zebra striped uniswan event.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 11, 2020, 12:31:36 AM
Theres another new kid - Syrvidis - something like that - as well
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 11, 2020, 12:58:35 AM
Don’t think he’s ripe yet & he might be a 4.

They picked up Musa. S I and Musa will be fun to chase around.
Title: Nostalgia In Times Square
Post by: chipstern on December 11, 2020, 11:26:18 AM
I DVR'd a broadcast of the legendary 1999 opening round death march to Baatan by the first and eight seeds in the East, the Heat and the Knicks. 

Games 1-2-3-4 saw one team dominate the other. 

Game 5 went back and forth, back and forth, a real tenacious nail biter, right down to that memorable Allan Houston basket and fist pump. 

Patrick Ewing played heroically, given how hurting he was.  I know by the time we got out of the East and went on to play the Spurs in the finals, he was gone, though I don't honestly recall the how and why.

What was interesting was the starting lineups. 

Heat

Mourning
PJ Brown
Mashburn
Majerle
Hardaway

And they had the likes of Terry Porter and Tim Weatherspoon coming off the bench. 

Knicks

Ewing
Kurt Thomas
LJ
Houston
Ward

Sprewell was first off the bench, LJ sliding over to PF. 

Then Camby, Chris Childs

Two sets of short rotations. Rick Brunson got a bit of daylight when CW and CC got into foul trouble. 

Was a reminder that even given his offensive limitations, Charlie Ward was a good facilitator and a ferocious defender.  Likewise, Childs, whose offensive portrait in the near field was a little more effective.  Never had the PG of our dreams, and JVG stubbornly refused to task Spree with PG responsibilities, even though he often initiated the offense. 

One of the great undermanned, overachieving Knicks teams.  And it was eye opening to see who effective Camby was coming off the bench at C-PF.  And while injuries plagued him throughout his career, trading him and the pick that could've yielded us Hillario or Stoudamire, endures as one of worst moves in the history of a franchise.  After a transitional recoup year with Denver (funny how often Denver has fucked us in the ass on big trades), MC had four very effective years with the Nuggets, where he was a defensive force, averaging 3-4 blocked shots a year. 

Now is the point where Kiid steps forward to diss Camby's playoffs peformance in 1999-2000, when his mind was clearly not on the game (on a sister who had been sexually assaulted, thank you very much), and to stand up for McDyess, who blew out his limbs one day after mocking Camby for his injury woes in the press.  McDyess did indeed come back, post-Marbury trade, to be an effective role player, much in the manner of how Ron Harper did, in coming back from likewise debilitating injuries, as a defensively oriented specialist.  Likewise was just observing on Basketball-Reference.com how Jamal Crawford was hitting threes at a .455 clip for D'Antoni when Donnie Douche bag offloaded him for Al Harrington and Zach Randolph for Tim Thomas and Cuttino Mobley in his brilliantly crafted scheme to attact LeBron and Chris Bosh...   

To be a Knicks Fan is to SUFFER. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 11, 2020, 11:54:59 AM
Was a reminder that even given his offensive limitations, Charlie Ward was a good facilitator and a ferocious defender.  Likewise, Childs, whose offensive portrait in the near field was a little more effective.  Never had the PG of our dreams, and JVG stubbornly refused to task Spree with PG responsibilities, even though he often initiated the offense.


Ward shot 39% from deep that year (.396 in playoffs), 83 from the line

Better player than ever given credit for
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 11, 2020, 12:09:21 PM
Real good team by the way.  Losses during the season weren't  a good accounting of our strength.
Title: Re: Nostalgia In Times Square
Post by: lesterluv on December 11, 2020, 12:12:21 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 11, 2020, 11:26:18 AM
To be a Knicks Fan is to SUFFER.

The suffering begins to end tonight

*** I don't really believe that, but do like saying it!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on December 11, 2020, 12:21:11 PM
I thought I received an email saying this site was down.  WTF
Title: Fail BETTER
Post by: chipstern on December 11, 2020, 01:20:36 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on December 11, 2020, 12:12:21 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 11, 2020, 11:26:18 AM
To be a Knicks Fan is to SUFFER.

The suffering begins to end tonight

*** I don't really believe that, but do like saying it!

A New More Hopeful Style Of Suffering. 

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/9d/7d/bc/9d7dbc4aba4a2a5cb997d5a8202d5a61.gif)

After enduring a succession of dubious coaches and managing regimes, Rose/Perrin/Aller/Perry and Thibodeau/Payne/Bryant seem to offer a baseline of accountability and minimally some semblance of, if not an out and out plan moving forward, least ways, the patience to try and do things right and not pop a woody at the first shiny objects to appear on the horizon. 

NOT WAITING ON GODOT....

Or, as the Red Auerbach of Irish Scribes put it....

(https://www.goethe.de/resources/files/jpg930/14174693406_9fd1e3e60f_o-formatkey-jpg-w320m.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 11, 2020, 01:25:30 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 11, 2020, 11:54:59 AM
Was a reminder that even given his offensive limitations, Charlie Ward was a good facilitator and a ferocious defender.  Likewise, Childs, whose offensive portrait in the near field was a little more effective.  Never had the PG of our dreams, and JVG stubbornly refused to task Spree with PG responsibilities, even though he often initiated the offense.


Ward shot 39% from deep that year (.396 in playoffs), 83 from the line

Better player than ever given credit for

Was not as sexy on the offensive end as Timmy Hardaway SENIOR, but a real gamer.  And his trey percentages went up over time. 

(https://goldenrankings.com/Basketball%20Pictures/CharlieWardKnicks.jpg)

I've posted this before, but I have an abiding memory of Ward planting his feet, and without flinching, absorbing a full speed offensive foul from Shaq that sent him recoiling into the hoops stanchion like Wile E. Coyotoe.  He got the call, and popped right up, when be all rights he should have been on a fucking gurney on his way to intensive care. 
Title: THIS JUST IN
Post by: chipstern on December 11, 2020, 02:00:05 PM
Ian Begley: Obi Toppin said the pace of the NBA game is something he’s adjusting to but, in general, Dayton has prepared him well for this level....said he’s been matched up against Julius Randle during training camp scrimmages. Obi said he’s also matched up against Nerlens Noel and Mitchell Robinson in scrimmages. Toppin said Randle has been really helpful in teaching him/pointing things out to him during camp. – via Twitter IanBegley

For what it's worth....

Modern NBA

Small Ball

Obi Toppin
6'9" 240

Omari Spellman
6'8" 245

Might Thibs be experimenting with giving Obi and/or dark horse Omari minutes at the five where matchups allow? 

Would seem to suggest in the short term that Julius is our PF of the moment going forward. 

Interesting, don't you think, that Obi has been matching up against 4s & 5s, and not 3s, as some of us (well...ME) were projecting? 

Wonder who Knox has been matching up against in practice.  Brazdeikis, MKG, RJ, Bullock? 

Thibs still sorting out what he has, and what combos can work. 

Minimally, taking minutes against two big defensive centers, one would think Coach is casting around for ways of keeping Obi involved and getting him meaningful minutes on the floor. 

Stay tuned. 

Five Hours Till Tip Off. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 11, 2020, 02:09:45 PM
Would seem to suggest in the short term that Julius is our PF of the moment going forward.


Never ever in doubt
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 11, 2020, 02:40:09 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 11, 2020, 02:09:45 PM
Would seem to suggest in the short term that Julius is our PF of the moment going forward.


Never ever in doubt

Most people on the internet and on this forum have him and a garbage trawler out of town. 

Thibs has been boosting him since the first pre-camp encounters....liked his attitude, his conditioning, and his leadership.   

Perhaps, PERHAPS, long term, he is trade bait, a la Morris. 

Right now, not feeling it.  In the here and now, he is our bell cow. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 11, 2020, 02:54:13 PM
Most people on the internet and on this forum have him and a garbage trawler out of town.


Yes.  For an upgrade.

As long as he is here Julius starts.  And is likely Plan A.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 11, 2020, 03:00:41 PM


Most people on the internet and on this forum have him and a garbage trawler out of town.   - internet people, heh

Thibs has been boosting him since the first pre-camp encounters....liked his attitude, his conditioning, and his leadership.     why wouldnt he?

Perhaps, PERHAPS, long term, he is trade bait, a la Morris.    sure - for value

Right now, not feeling it.  In the here and now, he is our bell cow.    as agreed
Title: All I ask
Post by: Kam on December 11, 2020, 04:18:12 PM
Bell cow, please make your free throws and limit your turnovers.
Title: Bell Cow Ask For A New Uni Number and We'll B More Forgiving
Post by: lesterluv on December 11, 2020, 04:19:26 PM
Let's be fair to "internet people," they just have elevated taste and IQ's.

Much of last year, watching Julius was the visual equivalent of hearing one Rudy Giuliani wet fart after another.

https://streamable.com/y3ip2 (https://streamable.com/y3ip2)

But we're happy to see him grow under new coach..until the first time he tries to bring the ball up-court by himself or his tenth spin-and-be-stripped in the lane.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 11, 2020, 06:29:48 PM
Grow from 20-10-3 per game?   Sure.  I would love to see it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 11, 2020, 07:17:57 PM
Noel starts
Burks too
RJ playing SF
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 11, 2020, 07:39:35 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 11, 2020, 07:17:57 PM
Noel starts
Burks too
RJ playing SF

Imagine that....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 11, 2020, 07:44:21 PM
Thibs:  "I like that there is competition.  Nothing is guaranteed to anyone"

First evidence - Mitch off the pine.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 11, 2020, 08:35:54 PM
Mentioned Toppin as an X factor

WOW

DET needs to play Rose and Hayes together
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 11, 2020, 08:55:47 PM
First half grades (11 players)


NOEL -   A

TOPPIN -     A-

BULLOCK -    B+

BURKS -   B

RANDLE -    B

SMITH -    B-

KNOX -    C+

PAYTON -    C+

NTLIKINA - C

BARRETT -     C-

ROBINSON -   D

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 11, 2020, 10:14:04 PM
Detroit is a hot mess. We tried to brick, hack, and turnover our way out of that one, but Detroit wouldn’t let us.

Not worried about anyone but Mitch after this, and not that worried about Mitch.
Title: Me Happy
Post by: chipstern on December 11, 2020, 10:47:04 PM
Thibs!

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/22ffd69896152dee93477adb5cfffa3f/tenor.gif?itemid=12447255)

Defense

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/061b17722418ab299f5d39141f1a2377/tenor.gif?itemid=8695068)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 11, 2020, 10:50:04 PM
Sadiq Bey is an impressive rook. Obi1 is a bit more impressive. I’m glad he’s a Knick.

Also, not shipping Randle anywhere.

I like our Knicks this year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on December 11, 2020, 10:59:35 PM
A few days ago I watched the DSJ training camp interview.  DSJ was asked if he looked at this training camp as a "new start" and he twisted and turned and said something to the effect of 'No.'.

I just get the vibe that DSJ doesn't get it.

So I'm watching him in this first game and I don't want to put the weight of the world on this one game but DSJ was not impressive.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 11, 2020, 11:06:05 PM
We have Austin Rivers. No point in Keeping Rivers & DSJ both. Rivers also has the better contract.
Coach DSJ up, don’t let him make an ass of himself and then ship him to a team that gets thin in the backcourt for a more useful asset. He may be worth a longer look in his late prime.

I’m not sure we missed MKG. Might keep him on the path to Westchester for now.

How will Thibs approach game 2?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 12, 2020, 01:54:48 AM
Just from the Box:

Knick starters 2-12 on treys.  Bench 3-11.
Gonna lose a lot of games that way.
Svi almost made as many 3's as the whole Knick team.

Everybody but Bullox with a turnover.
More TO's than Assists.

A poor ballhandling/passing team without shooters.
Gonna be a long season.

Starters went 1-7 on FT's?!?  Rather laughable.
We did board well, with all 11 players snagging a rebound.
Which is good cause they'll be a lot of missed shots to pull down.

Likely Julius mentors ObiT for the first half of the season, then we move Randle and Smith/Franc for something mid-season, if a decent deal is there.  A Randle trade the most likely way to correct some of the roster bloat.  The good thing is we aren't in a rush to move Randle.  He'll grind and bang out some decent empty numbers and probably won't be here next year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 12, 2020, 02:17:33 AM
Chill, chill. Chill.

It was the first preseason game. We missed 3’s, missed free throws, missed assignments, turned it over, played a far less messy game than the other guys and won.

I like the frontcourt pairings, and the roles, though, hopefully, the minute balance shifts to the kids, Mitch and Obi, as the season progresses. We’ll see, but I’m trusting Thibs in this.

Elfrid is still our best PG. I hope his shooting comes around.

It may be a while till we hit 3’s easily as a team, but if we work defensively like that and stay lively in the half court hit or miss, we should have a pretty good season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 12, 2020, 02:53:57 AM
Trade of the day, since it’s in no way too early.

Blake and Sadiq for Julius & Dennis.

Who, if anyone needs to add picks?

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y64zvnw6 (http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y64zvnw6)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 12, 2020, 04:16:47 AM
I like trades where the Knix get the 2 bets players.
I guess you're looking at it as a DET salary dump and tossing in Bey as a sweetener.
Be a great deal for NYK.  Blake better than Randle; Bey a nice 3&D talent of the sort we never have.  Rather unlikely.  But Blake's health always a Q.

DET started Blake and 4 guys who joined the team a few weeks ago.
They also played all 15 active players.

Looks like a rough game for Killian Haymaker.  I figured DET would draft him, relieving the Knix from considering another big draft gamble.  Though as it played out with Toppings available, Knix were going the safe route regardless. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 12, 2020, 11:50:24 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 12, 2020, 01:54:48 AM
Just from the Box:

Knick starters 2-12 on treys.  Bench 3-11.
Gonna lose a lot of games that way.
Svi almost made as many 3's as the whole Knick team.

Everybody but Bullox with a turnover.
More TO's than Assists.

A poor ballhandling/passing team without shooters.
Gonna be a long season.

Starters went 1-7 on FT's?!?  Rather laughable.
We did board well, with all 11 players snagging a rebound.
Which is good cause they'll be a lot of missed shots to pull down.


Jesus, this is nutty. First game of....preseason. Everyone is rusty.

That said, I thought the DEFENSE was exciting. Quick hands, aggressive. Rebounding. Fun to watch.

And fuck, OBI, looked pretty fucking fearless with the ball. Not your typical rookie. I mean, he made a number of rookie mistakes, but there's something there. I saw him a lot at Dayton and wondered about the leap to the NBA. But at least in this game, you get the sense that he will not disappoint.

Noel looks awesome too.

The only negatives I felt — and I know it's all premature — is that I'm looking for signs that Smith and Barrett brought something new into the season. In this first brief glimpse, we didn't see anything. Let's see what happens Sunday.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 12, 2020, 12:55:27 PM
As to our rotation, the question of who gets the Rivers minutes last night was answered.  It was Frank.

My one miscue was having Bullock over Knox.  Though I did cite Reggie's vanilla '19-'20 season so not too much a shock.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 12, 2020, 01:00:04 PM
Griffin is a ball stopper.  Quite evident last night.

Pass on the deal, thanks.
Title: What Have We Here?
Post by: chipstern on December 12, 2020, 01:20:23 PM
Quote from: elephant on December 12, 2020, 11:50:24 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 12, 2020, 01:54:48 AM
Just from the Box:

Knick starters 2-12 on treys.  Bench 3-11.
Gonna lose a lot of games that way.
Svi almost made as many 3's as the whole Knick team.

Everybody but Bullox with a turnover.
More TO's than Assists.

A poor ballhandling/passing team without shooters.
Gonna be a long season.

Starters went 1-7 on FT's?!?  Rather laughable.
We did board well, with all 11 players snagging a rebound.
Which is good cause they'll be a lot of missed shots to pull down.


Jesus, this is nutty. First game of....preseason. Everyone is rusty.

That said, I thought the DEFENSE was exciting. Quick hands, aggressive. Rebounding. Fun to watch.

And fuck, OBI, looked pretty fucking fearless with the ball. Not your typical rookie. I mean, he made a number of rookie mistakes, but there's something there. I saw him a lot at Dayton and wondered about the leap to the NBA. But at least in this game, you get the sense that he will not disappoint.

Noel looks awesome too.

The only negatives I felt — and I know it's all premature — is that I'm looking for signs that Smith and Barrett brought something new into the season. In this first brief glimpse, we didn't see anything. Let's see what happens Sunday.

Thanks.  Pretty much zeroed in on my observations. 

Loves me my BoD, but the narrowness of his focus marks him as the uncrowned KING OF NEGATIVE NANCIES.  I thought his post made the obvious superfluous. 

Takeaways. 

* Thibs has their attention.  Hate to reference Narc SpermMan, but Tom Thibodeau was the Knicks TOP OFFSEASON FREE AGENT.  By a country mile. 

* The Knicks defense was scrappy and in your face and pseky and combatitive in a manner I have not witnessed going back to when Thibs was an assistant coach back in the JVG Era.  Our shooting sucks?  Wow, what an insight, Bo.  And yes, that will cost us games, assuming, AS YOU READILY DO, that on the evidence of ONE FUCKING GAME, it will not show any progress.  Shooting comes with reps.  And DEFENSE will keep you in a lot of games you otherwise will not be in on the basis of talent.  Did Bo happen to note that Blake Griffin was 3-11 and Jerami Grant was 0-11.  Obviously some of that is rust.  But some of that was DEFENSE.  The Bete Noire of Knicks fans for years has been our pitiful defense of three point shooters.  Again, rust, first season game, but Knicks held Detroit to 10-39.  Bey and Mykhailiuk impressive, a combined 7-17.  So we CAN do better, but progress. 

* No comments by Bo about Obi, save to project Randle trades.  Now there's a suprise, seeing as how picking Toppin was such a sucky dumbass move. 

* Those who have Randle on a slow boat out of town.  I thought the last couple of minutes were a freeze frame of the bitter and the sweet, Julius style.  In one sequence he dribbled and pivoted into a double team and coughed up a turnover.  TRADE HIM!  Then when the Knicks needed baskets to hang on, he drained two jumpers.  Oh, and did anyone notice he had 6 assists? 

* Randle and Toppin in 49 minues a combined 9-20, for 22 points, 15 rebounds, 7 assists, 2 steals and a block.   

* Three Point Shooting.  Amidst a bevy of goose eggs?  Randle 1-2, Burks 1-3, Bullock 1-2, Smith 1-3, Ntilikina 1-1. 

* Free Throw Shooting is FAR MORE CONCERNING TO ME than 3 point shooting.  Just fucking awful: ONLY got to the line 19 times and only converted 9.  A lot of losses in that stat. 

* Payton showed off all of his strengths and weaknesses, a solid 10-7-6-1, but winced at all three of his treys.  French Frank was playing off guard a good deal, and I was impressed with his energy and aggression...did not seem at all tentative.  Dennis?  Made some good plays, and was warmed by the smooth technique on his made three...thought he was playing more purposefully, particularly on D where he had two steals, but four turnovers and while not discombobulated like last year, still seems tentative.  Wondering when Quickley gets his chance. 

* RJ, like Randle, the bitter with the sweet.  Clanged his first of two FTs for the evening, and among his first six misses were some painful unguided missles.  But after going 0-6, he was 7-10 and finished with 15-5-2, our leading scorer.  Also getting after it on D.

* Kevin Knox.  Not much to hang your hat on stats wise, but played with force and energy, was going strong to the hoop, defended, and had a beuatiful assist to Obi in the two man game. 

* Nerelens Noel.  Now HE played his ass off.  Don't think who starts between him and Mitchell is much of an issue.  Mitch often gets in foul trouble.  Thibs referred to both of them as ELITE rim protectors.  NN really set the tone for our individual and team D.  And when Mitch came in, he was clearly motivated.   Not to take a shot (NN nailed a short jumper).  They combined for 15 boards, 5 steals and 4 blocks. 

* MINUTES?  Offering some clues as TT sorts it all out.  Randle [29]. Barrett [29]. Payton [27].  Noels [25].  Robinson [22].  Smith [21].  Toppin [20].  Ntilikina [19].  Burks [18].  Knox [17]. 

OBVIOUSLY I was happy with the baby steps I witnessed.  And to repeat, BOY DOES THIBS HAVE THEIR ATTENTION.  Opening of the second half, Griffin was left ridiculously open for an open three.  TIMEfuckingOUT,  A teachable moment?  AN ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME MOMENT. 

Things are neither as dire as BoD suggests, nor as hopeful as I project. 

Our team does not have a Devin Booker-scaled scoring threat/sniper on the immediate horizon.  RJ teases as a cutter, penetrator finisher, but is he going to step up as a bonafide shooter, let alone a resourceful scorer.
Toppin looks to be the real deal, but he is a puppy. 

For me, the takeaway which made me happy, though not delusional, was the combative, competitive, collegial nature of these Knicks on and off the floor.  WE PLAYED HARD.  OUR DEFENSE WHILE STILL VERY MUCH A WORK IN PROGRESS, WAS THERE FROM THE OPENING BELL.  Detroit is a team in transition, not unlike our own, but these are the types of teams we need to beat on. 

Be interesting how Dwayne Casey gets his Pistons to come back at us on Sunday.  And if we maintain our focus.  Don't believe on scant evidence, that they would DARE LET DOWN for Thibs. 

Anyway, clearly more of a work in progress than a jerk in regress...I liked what I saw last night, even as I wince at our imperfections, but Thibs clearly has the vestigial traces of a competitive culture and accountability in process.  It was not pretty, but it was fun.  They played hard, they played scrappy.  That will have to do in the short term. 

Oh, and....

DEFENSE
Title: Elsewhere
Post by: chipstern on December 12, 2020, 01:36:20 PM
Carmelo lit it up for the Blazers. 

New additions Kanter, Giles and Covington made solid contributions.  Gary Trent went off.  Dangerous team.

PS: Grizzlies waived Mario Herzonja, Chip Stern's Jimmer Freddette.  What can I tell you. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 12, 2020, 01:53:13 PM
Covington should be a great fit there.
Hope Zach gets healthy.

I like Jer Grant, been eyeing him for a few years.
But it might take him some time to adapt to a much bigger offensive role.
The $20M he got was on the high end of what I thought he'd get ($16M - $20M), and seems like an overpay, but DEN reportedly offered him the same to stay.

Zonja a classic mistake player.
He'd be fun in China.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 12, 2020, 02:01:59 PM
Let's hear the calls for Ol' Mike Miller today.

A good man - a pretty good coach.  We moved on wisely.
Title: Re: What Have We Here?
Post by: lesterluv on December 12, 2020, 02:02:43 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 12, 2020, 01:20:23 PM

* Thibs has their attention.  Hate to reference Narc SpermMan, but Tom Thibodeau was the Knicks TOP OFFSEASON FREE AGENT.  By a country mile. 


A lineup featuring K. Knox, O. Toppin, D. Smith Jr...a defensive juggernaut, lol, wasn't expecting that! (ok, the other two members of that 5 more responsible, but everybody contesting, everbody's hands up, good stuff)

This Knick fan did not suffer at all last night.


*** satisfying entertainment, that's all I ask, I got on night one, second unit much more fun to watch than the first, but enjoyed the whole thing,
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 12, 2020, 03:50:42 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 12, 2020, 02:01:59 PM
Let's hear the calls for Ol' Mike Miller today.

A good man - a pretty good coach.  We moved on wisely.

Got that right. 

Like the difference between Herb Williams and Patrick Ewing. 
Title: Re: What Have We Here?
Post by: chipstern on December 12, 2020, 03:57:05 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on December 12, 2020, 02:02:43 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 12, 2020, 01:20:23 PM

* Thibs has their attention.  Hate to reference Narc SpermMan, but Tom Thibodeau was the Knicks TOP OFFSEASON FREE AGENT.  By a country mile. 


A lineup featuring K. Knox, O. Toppin, D. Smith Jr...a defensive juggernaut, lol, wasn't expecting that! (ok, the other two members of that 5 more responsible, but everybody contesting, everbody's hands up, good stuff)

This Knick fan did not suffer at all last night.


*** satisfying entertainment, that's all I ask, I got on night one, second unit much more fun to watch than the first, but enjoyed the whole thing,

COMPETITION

ACCOUTABILITY

DEFENSE...Actual Defense, No Fucking Switching.  Mano A Mano.  My God, if we could watch game or two where we are not consistently getting nuked by uncontested threes. 

As per Kiid's reference to Mike Miller.  His defensive theory was protect the rim, which led to a rain of three point ICBMs.  A decent man, handed a tough assignment.  Had us playing better by year's end, but not developing youth or a coherent collective identity. 

Robinson, Toppin, Knox, Ntilikina, Smith

Interesting second unit. 

We're going to lose...we know that out front. 

But we are going to COMPETE.  And hopefully not beat ourselves. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 12, 2020, 04:36:08 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 12, 2020, 02:01:59 PM
Let's hear the calls for Ol' Mike Miller today.

A good man - a pretty good coach.  We moved on wisely.

Mike is a damn good coach. He’ll be fine.

I wanted Thibs since Jeff left. I’m glad we got him now.

There are pluses and minuses to both Blake and Jules. I think of it as a wash and the play in my proposal was to get Bey, who has aspects of Crowder, Tucker, Og, and Ingles that would be great for us especially at the beginning of a rookie contract.

I’m fine with no deals happening. I think Thibs can coach up Randle to a higher level, whether that’s by getting through to Julius or by having the team save him from the situations that get him in trouble. It doesn’t seem like he’ll see the minutes and the load he did last year.

Noel and Obi are the exact same listed size. That seems right now we’ve seen them.

Burks and Bullock do not need extended run in the preseason. They know the drill. Burks is also coming off significant bubble work.

Hoping to get a glimpse of Iggy, Quickley, and either Omari or Skal next game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 12, 2020, 05:23:59 PM
Program note

LaMelo Ball's (w/ Vernon Carey) debut tonight in CHA   7 PM   NBA TV
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 12, 2020, 05:47:20 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 12, 2020, 04:36:08 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 12, 2020, 02:01:59 PM
Let's hear the calls for Ol' Mike Miller today.

A good man - a pretty good coach.  We moved on wisely.

Mike is a damn good coach. He’ll be fine.

I wanted Thibs since Jeff left. I’m glad we got him now.

There are pluses and minuses to both Blake and Jules. I think of it as a wash and the play in my proposal was to get Bey, who has aspects of Crowder, Tucker, Og, and Ingles that would be great for us especially at the beginning of a rookie contract.

I’m fine with no deals happening. I think Thibs can coach up Randle to a higher level, whether that’s by getting through to Julius or by having the team save him from the situations that get him in trouble. It doesn’t seem like he’ll see the minutes and the load he did last year.

Noel and Obi are the exact same listed size. That seems right now we’ve seen them.

Burks and Bullock do not need extended run in the preseason. They know the drill. Burks is also coming off significant bubble work.

Hoping to get a glimpse of Iggy, Quickley, and either Omari or Skal next game.

Skal was waived I believe.

On his way to G League.

Andrew White too.  Signed him in the morning.  Waived him in the afternoon. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 12, 2020, 05:57:43 PM
I hope Skal and Andy clear waivers.

You are correct, Chip, and Kiid has updated the situation. Young next?

I will lobby for a peek at Iggy, Omari and Manny then.

Come on Tom, give the people what they want!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 12, 2020, 08:09:29 PM
Guys who Thibs was most satisfied with will get the biggest reductions in run next game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 12, 2020, 08:24:43 PM
Ball highlight reel pass (3/4 court off the inbounds football style) fools cameraman/director.

Layup being put in as they showed Toronto player that made last shot

Dont blink with this guy
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 12, 2020, 11:33:48 PM
Thunder got a gem in AP. Okoro looking good for the Cavs as does Thon Maker.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 13, 2020, 04:49:39 AM
Gonna be a good rook class.

Caught the first 1/3 of the Knick-DET game.

Jr. Smith just seemed like he didn't know what to do most of the time.
Had one cross court pass that was decisive.

Noel had a good nose for the ball. My fave Knick pickup.

ObiT was energetic.
Once maneuvered on the baseline and got by his man to stretch for a layup.  Nice bouncy move.  Twice used his athleticism to save a ball form going out (saved two possessions).  Defense was weak, but at least effort was there.  One ObiT semi-fronted a post Piston while holding him from going rimward.  Sort of a comically obvious holding foul.

Knox was usually decisive, with mixed results.
Julius looked slightly slimmed down.
Tried to take advantage of skinny Jer Grant guarding him, and mostly couldn't get much done.

Lowlights were FT's and 3's.  One transition play, RJB front-rimmed a wide open elbow 3.  Knix rebound - good all night -- and ball back to RJB who repeats the same shot with ... an airball.  Er ...  Two totally uncontested 3's.  And usually your 2nd attempt you can adjust from the prior miss. 

I saw something last week that said RJB is somewhere around the Top 95% for trying difficult passes.  They cited some measure, and the article actually posited that as a god thing, noting RJB was a willing passer.  But yeah, RJB does try to make tough passes, using narrow openings and tricky angles.  He need more patience.
____________________________________________

Overall, Randle, ObiT and RJB are all pretty aggressive offensive players.  Burks and Rivers not shy about gunning.  Contrasted with Mitch, Noel, and Franc who are more judicious/limited shooters.
____________________________________________

I thought it strange kiid called Blake a ball stopper.  As he's usually a good and willing passer.  And certainly in the 17 minutes I saw, Griffin was all Point Forwarding and passing all the time.  Set up his guys pretty well.  Occasionally tested Randle and ObiT, both known as iffy defenders.
Title: Iffy Defenders
Post by: chipstern on December 13, 2020, 09:05:05 AM
Perhaps Griffin [3-11] and Grant [0-11] were coming out of an ICU. 

And is it just me, or did you only watch the first half.

After RJ went through his 0-6 clang fest, he was 7-10, mixing short jumpers with downhill drives, and a couple of nice passes.   
Title: PS
Post by: chipstern on December 13, 2020, 09:09:16 AM
I watched the game agian last night, and Ntilikina more active and aggressive...D, a couple of nifty passes, and hit our first three. 

From the little acorn....
Title: Slow Diddley
Post by: chipstern on December 13, 2020, 09:22:11 AM
Isaac Okoro

33 minutes

18 points

6-9 FGs

2-4 from trey

1 board, 1 assist, 3 steals

PS: Thon Maker 10-10-3-2

PPS: In the intereset of full shouldacouldawoulda disclosure, Vassell was 12-6-3-1, 2-4 from trey.

PPPS: Theo Maledon 20-5-2, 2-4 trey. 

PPPPS: Pokusevski, 14-7-2, 4-8 from trey.

PPPPPS: Malachi Flynn, 9-2-4-1, 3-6 trey, a +35...LaMelo, 10 rebounds, 4 assists....

Bobby Portis, 7-15, 13 boards.

Langston Galloway, 17 points in 16 minutes, 4-7 trey

Damyean Dotson [Good for you kid] 5-6, 2-2 trey
Title: Playoffs
Post by: chipstern on December 13, 2020, 09:36:45 AM
Not sure if the two games with a day off in between spacing during preseason will stick during the regular season.  Problably not.

Still.

Be interesting to see Dwayne Casey's adjustments.  Pistons not quite as bad as we made them look. 

Be interesting to see if Tom Thibodeau's message translates two games in a row.  Knicks not quite as good as we looked against a commensurate second tier opponent. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jerrya on December 13, 2020, 09:41:02 AM
Was hoping to see Immanuel Quickley... for close to 50 % 3 pt. shooter and a 1st round pick I thought he would get some time.
Title: Re: PS
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 13, 2020, 09:52:13 AM
Quote from: chipstern on December 13, 2020, 09:09:16 AM
I watched the game agian last night, and Ntilikina more active and aggressive...D, a couple of nifty passes, and hit our first three. 

From the little acorn....

And the negative plays by FN?  A few while handling the ball.  Not a problem after just one game - its rust for everyone - but needs noting. 

I also liked that Frank drained a 3.  If he is going to be out there some, we need him to hit the open shot at decent rate.

Surely he did get Austin's minutes, no?  Not expecting Thibs to go 11 deep on Opening Night
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 13, 2020, 09:54:31 AM
Quote from: Jerrya on December 13, 2020, 09:41:02 AM
Was hoping to see Immanuel Quickley... for close to 50 % 3 pt. shooter and a 1st round pick I thought he would get some time.

Loved Quickley's Meyers Leonard-type energy on the pine, often next to Obi.  And I think that was Powell the other side of him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 13, 2020, 11:40:29 AM
"Gonna be a good rook class"

Wiseman is on COVID list.
Edwards I am excited to see.
Haliburton I have on vid.  Will watch today, if he played.
Waiting for Celts telecast to check Pritch and Precious.
Ball looks like Maravich as a passer.
Obi is man ready to succeed ten years plus in league, given health
Williams of Bulls - looks great
Didn't see Okoro but he had the game winner
Excellent statline from Vassel
Got a look at Stewart and Bey (+) and Carey
Most impressive rook I actually saw thus far was MALACHI FLYNN (owned the court in his allotted time for TOR, hitting 4 of first 5 three pointers with effortless confident stroke).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 13, 2020, 12:04:03 PM
Was going to mention Flynn looked very nice.

Austin doesn’t have any minutes to take. He might earn some down the line, but it’s unlikely to be at the expense of Frank barring an injury. He would need to beat out Quickley to become the emergency combo guard and rising to sixth in the backcourt depth chart.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 13, 2020, 12:16:28 PM
Heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 13, 2020, 12:17:07 PM
Fac

Frank made a shot

But he wasn't good
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on December 13, 2020, 12:17:25 PM
Gotta say, Obi looked great, and yes coaching will make a difference this season, the Q is how much of a difference? 
As much as in the NFL, like Judge for the Jints, I doubt it. 

But it is great to have a real coach...in retrospect - what on earth where they thinking with Fizz? the only that guy was ready for is having his eyewear  promoted in Architectural Digest
Title: suspect cognitive skills
Post by: lesterluv on December 13, 2020, 12:45:52 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 13, 2020, 12:17:07 PM
Fac

Frank made a shot

But he wasn't good

lol, this from the man whose sigi said this for 6 months:

NOT EVERYONE DESERVES THIS MAN TO BE THEIR PRESIDENT BUT I THANK GOD EVERY DAY THAT HE IS MINE. 🙏🏽 DONALD TRUMP GAVE UP HIS AMAZING LIFE THAT EVERY PERSON DREAMS ABOUT SO HE COULD SAVE OUR COUNTRY, SAVE US & SAVE THE WORLD. HE LOST BILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF HIS PERSONAL MONEY & WORKS FOR FREE. GODBLESS YOU ALWAYS & THANK YOU FOR EVERYTHING YOU DO FOR US. MR. PRESIDENT, YOU’RE AN AMERICAN HERO🇺🇸 I LOVE TO FEEL YOUR BUTTERBALLS SLAPPING UP AGAINST MY CHIN #GODWINS #GODALWAYSWINS #Q #QANON #WWG1WGA #MAGA #TRUMP2020 #TRUMP #USA #DRAINTHESWAMP #THEGREATAWAKENING #DIGITALSOLDIER #CALMBEFORETHESTORM #TRUTH #WOKE #WAKEUPAMERICA #WETHEPEOPLE #CONSERVATIVE #REPUBLICAN #AMERICAN #AMERICAFIRST #PROMISESMADEPROMISESKEPT #KAGA #FREEDOM #TRUMPSUPPORTERS #ELECTIONFRAUD #ORANGEBUTTERBALLSONMYCHIN
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 13, 2020, 12:54:50 PM
Real coach

Plus positive variables in Toppin, Rivers, Burks

Just looking at upgrades.  Sure you may need to include Noel - and improvement from RJ.  But I am most confident in the 1 coach and 3 player upgrades mentioned.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 13, 2020, 12:58:10 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 13, 2020, 12:17:07 PM
Fac

Frank made a shot

But he wasn't good

BS
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 13, 2020, 01:22:32 PM
http://m.dailykos.com/stories/2020/12/13/1998810/-It-s-long-past-time-to-give-Black-jazz-drummers-the-respect-they-are-due (http://m.dailykos.com/stories/2020/12/13/1998810/-It-s-long-past-time-to-give-Black-jazz-drummers-the-respect-they-are-due)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 13, 2020, 01:41:37 PM
Just wanted to see what time game was, pulled this up


https://www.postingandtoasting.com/2020/12/13/22171005/preseason-game-preview-knicks-pistons-12-13-2020
Title: Tell You What
Post by: chipstern on December 13, 2020, 06:25:46 PM
Ball ain't Pistol Pete by a long shot.

But them was some Maravitch passes.  For REAL. 
Title: The Prophet BoD
Post by: chipstern on December 13, 2020, 10:02:04 PM
Your man out of Israel had an aupicious debut tonight. 

6-6, 3-3 from trey, for 15-4-2 in like 24 minutes.  Hachimura played well.  Lots of threes.  Lost to the Nyets.  DVR'd it.  Will watch tomorrow. 

Knicks were 8-33 from trey, 17-26 from FT, and 33-84 from the field.  Which ain't gonna get it done. 

Payton [PG], Burks [SG] and RJ [SF] played very well for the Knicks, and got us back in the game in the third, with an impressive run. They outscored the Pistons 33-23 in the fouth which was encouraging. Thibs was determined to let his second unit live or die in the fourth.  They died.  Outscored 24-16.  A teachable moment...not encouraging. 

Julius had his 18-6-4, but five classic turnovers.  Frank played hard, made some plays, and a three, but nothing to write home about. 

Kevin Knox was pretty awful, as was Bullock...Dennis?  I keep waiting for him make a break for the hoop like Elfrid does.  What happenned to his game? 

Knicks never got Obi in rhythm, and he was not feeling it.  Hit one three, but missed five. 

The offensive doldrums were numbing.  Detroit's zone took us out of our inside game and they double dared us to beat them from outside.  A good bet. 

So

One Yeah

One Meh

Cavs in Wednesday in the Garden during a blizzard. 
Title: Alan Hahn
Post by: Kam on December 13, 2020, 10:04:09 PM
Obi Toppin struggled tonight because he needs a point guard.  Knox too.

How can we judge our young guys when they have to create things all by themselves?

Imagine all the easy buckets Knox and Toppin aren’t getting because we lack a good PG.

We have zero PGs on the roster who can elevate his teammates.

No orchestrator who puts guys in a position to do what they do best.

Until then, this team will struggle and individually talented players will frustrate fans.

Knox and Toppin are almost useless without someone setting them up to take advantage of their strengths.

We aren’t seeing them in the right light.  We need a fucking point.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 13, 2020, 10:27:11 PM
That guys isn’t playing much with Knox and Obi right now.

Julius needs to clean his game up, trust his teammates and get out of their way.

I like Quickley.

Noel
Toppin
Knox
Bullock
Burks
Barrett
Payton
Ntilikina
Quickley

Are the guys I’ve seen so far I trust to make decisions.

We still have to play Randle and Mitch to win games.
Title: Re: Alan Hahn
Post by: chipstern on December 13, 2020, 10:37:44 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 13, 2020, 10:04:09 PM
Obi Toppin struggled tonight because he needs a point guard.  Knox too.

How can we judge our young guys when they have to create things all by themselves?

Imagine all the easy buckets Knox and Toppin aren’t getting because we lack a good PG.

We have zero PGs on the roster who can elevate his teammates.

No orchestrator who puts guys in a position to do what they do best.

Until then, this team will struggle and individually talented players will frustrate fans.

Knox and Toppin are almost useless without someone setting them up to take advantage of their strengths.

We aren’t seeing them in the right light.  We need a fucking point.

Yes. 

Elfrid by default. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 13, 2020, 11:17:27 PM
The kind of point we need will push the pace.  Get out and run.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 14, 2020, 02:06:30 AM
I have a feeling that what Thibs wants to look at in preseason and what he decides to do when he want to win games may be somewhat different.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 14, 2020, 04:16:17 AM
Release the Kraken!
Title: Development & Evaluation
Post by: bodiddley on December 14, 2020, 04:18:08 AM
I've been saying the same Kam.
Also Randle and Mitch would look better with a genuine PG.
So would our annual infusion of journeymen shooters.
Whole team would look and develop better, while allowing a more accurate evaluation of the team, upping value, etc..
That's why after some thought I realized trading for Chris Paul would make sense.

We saw last year RJB and Randle struggle trying to play Point-like.
We just don't have anyone who can orchestrate a half court game, and likely no one who can push the pace for easier transition buckets.  A young team should run.

Knix doomed until we get a starting PG.
So yeah, I would have traded up to get Ball.
Wish we had traded Rose for Rubio a few years ago.
Lots of PG movement the past 5 years and the Knix never got in the game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 14, 2020, 04:23:57 AM
Check out the college guys
Cunningham and Suggs
If we got either one it would solve our problems.

A CP3 might not let us be bad enough to draft that high.
It’s the master plan?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 14, 2020, 05:58:21 AM
Maybe we can just merge with another bad team that has a PG.
I'd vote for Sacto.  But be willing to settle for CHA.

CBSports ranked their Top 100 players, and Knix were only team that didn't have a soul on the list . . .

I have to make it a point to watch ATL this year.
Should be one of the better shooting teams.
Some intriguing young players.
A Capela at the rim.

If Hunter or RedCam break through, they could be dangerous.
Trae will get to expand his game.
Should be fun.
Title: Kam
Post by: chipstern on December 14, 2020, 10:32:52 AM
Again, good points.  Well, your talking points, not OUR POINTS. 

When Elfrid was on the floor, even with his trademark bricks from the perimeter, there was pace and coherence. 

I am rooting for Dennis, and CLEARLY, so is Coach Thibs. 

Still, I remain baffled by what happenned to his game compared to the aggressive, penetrating force he was during his late season, post-Dallas cameo in the final 20+ 2018-2019 contests.   In both games, I can only recall a few instances where he doble clutched, changed speeds and went hard to the hoop.  He is clearly trying to facilitate in a manner that jibes with Thibs' expectations.  Payton gets to the hoop and finishes.  Why not Smith.  That is OR WAS his game. 

Frank can garner floor time by playing D, while waiting for Godot. 

Austin Rivers gained traction at the point and off the ball just by chilling.  And clearly Thibs is trying to figure out a way to get Quickley on the floor, either off the ball or as a facilitator. 

As our MSG pundits noted last night, Coach Casey's response was to force us off the block and dare us to beat them from outside. 

Be interesting to see how pre-season rotations evolve, and on the basis of the third quarter last night, Noel-Randle-Barrett-Burks-Payton makes sense.  Now Coach has to figure out who he can trust for the next five offa the pine...?

Robinson-Toppin-Bullock/Knox-Rivers-Quickley? 

I hope we get an opportunity to see Spellman and Brazdeikis, who can both shoot, though in my heart of hearts, I do not think they are going to see daylight.  Right now Rivers and Quickley are the most tantalizing X-Factors.  Burks has established that he is as advertised...an adult scorer with probably the best outside shot on the team.   

Thibs has until Wednesday to address our faux pas from last night, which was not as godawful as it could've been, giving our outside shooting and foul shooting. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on December 14, 2020, 12:08:29 PM
This game was an evaluation run, nothing more. Thibs wants to see what he wants to evaluate.  No harm done.  No reason to panic.

I'm burned out in frustration with DSJ.  Take him out of this mix and ALL discussion would change.  He simply F's up the chemistry of this team royally.

A close second is Randall although we are stuck with this personally likeable doorstop.  Again, if we get DSJ's shitty play off the court maybe Randall would not look so bad.  Certainly Mitch would have fewer frustration fouls.

From Hahn's FB chat last night it sounds like DSJ's hefty contract is the issue.  Tough to just buy that out.  IMO (and it ain't my money), worth the price for everyone involved.
 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 14, 2020, 12:09:23 PM
So, seeing the first two contests, how does removing Randle and Frank look as an option?


Then - seeing our abysmal shooting, how does adding Buddy Hield look?


Maybe your pause is a more positive assessment of Randle than you'd admit to.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 14, 2020, 12:12:35 PM
#1 pick in my draft the other day

Passed on Harden.

Who would you have selected among AD, Giannis, Curry and Luka?

Nabbed J Murray round 2, then Zion and Wall, all higher than their slots.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 14, 2020, 12:36:43 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 14, 2020, 12:12:35 PM
#1 pick in my draft the other day

Passed on Harden.

Who would you have selected among AD, Giannis, Curry and Luka?

Nabbed J Murray round 2, then Zion and Wall, all higher than their slots.

Denver picked Murray with the second #1 pick [the swap option] from the Anthony Trade.

A gift that keeps giving. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on December 14, 2020, 12:55:04 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 14, 2020, 12:09:23 PM
So, seeing the first two contests, how does removing Randle and Frank look as an option?


Then - seeing our abysmal shooting, how does adding Buddy Hield look?


Maybe your pause is a more positive assessment of Randle than you'd admit to.

We clearly saw that removing Frank eliminated the team's defensive intensity by significant measure.  We also saw that Thibs trusts Frank to bring it late in the game.  His coupling with Quickly was clunky but promising as Quickly was getting his NBA sea legs.

Randle adds scoring and removes the benefit of that offense with wildly frustrating bad play. He's a zero sum contributor with the use of 'contributor' being a kinder form of the word 'worthless'.

Hield has been discussed and vetted on numerous occasions.  He adds scoring but introduces a head-case to the locker room.

Frankie, Burks, Quickly, RJ, Obie, and others will eventually find their touch.

Like Bo, I think its a tragedy that Rubio has never been seriously pursued as a PG candidate here. He preeminently represents a great crossover solution to our primary need.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 14, 2020, 01:36:40 PM
ELBA fantasy league has now been made public

Draft is Thursday night 8 PM

To join go to Yahoo Fantasy Basketball page and search ELBA

Thanks
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 14, 2020, 01:39:11 PM
Checking in on Hield's impressive J and pretty decent defense and floor game - sorry, Bo........

and what do I see?

Carmelo off the bench first quarter with 10 points in 4 minutes

Dude looks real good - even blocked a shot.

He wasnt coming here - but those who wanted no part seem silly right now.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 14, 2020, 02:21:45 PM
Taking Hield of course meant taking his money on for next season.  That would be your negative talking point.

18.5/18,5/20.5 from '21-'22 thru '23-'24

But you would have your sniper.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 14, 2020, 02:31:56 PM
Quiz -

Name the 9 active NBA players ahead of Hield's career .411 3-pt rate

Part 2 - Name the 11 active qualifying players (1200+ free throws) ahead of Hield's career .866 FT mark (Buddy doesnt meet the attempts threshold)

Point - PRETTY GOOD SHOOTER
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 14, 2020, 02:32:56 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 14, 2020, 02:21:45 PM
Taking Hield of course meant taking his money on for next season.  That would be your negative talking point.

18.5/18,5/20.5 from '21-'22 thru '23-'24

But you would have your sniper.

Indeed.

Only one problem. 

He ain't available. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 14, 2020, 02:35:00 PM
The offer was open for us to accept, I thought.  Randle/Frank +.   Word is we scoffed at giving up what is likely to be a late #1.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 14, 2020, 02:47:10 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 14, 2020, 02:35:00 PM
The offer was open for us to accept.  Word is we scoffed at giving up what is likely to be a late #1.

What is your source? 

Tha would've engaged my attention. 

Not one of those Fake Trade Crap-A-Phons that pop up all the time on GOOGLE? 

Burks is no BH, but he looks to have been a good pick up.  At least one Knick who can flat out shoot, while we are waiting on Bullock, and for Obi and Quickley to find their range.  And Rivers too, knick on wood. 

PS: Watching Charlotte v Toronto on DVR.  Malachi Flynn is an alum of San Diego State, where my daughter and son in law matriculated.  Impressive stroke and competitive edge.  And watching Ball pass brings a smile to my face.  He has a gift.  Not a shot, but that should come over time.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 14, 2020, 02:58:06 PM
Sorry - thought it was on the forum.  Scroll back, I guess.

There was this a month and a half ago - but no teeth to it

https://www.nbaanalysis.net/2020/10/30/3-trade-packages-to-send-kings-buddy-hield-to-the-knicks/4/

Then this one

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2921176-nba-trade-rumors-buzz-on-russell-westbrook-john-wall-buddy-hield-and-knicks

Barrett was the interesting one in that Sac would have almost definitely bit and it would not have cost much if any draft capital

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 14, 2020, 03:33:33 PM
If we were going to redirect past draft capital, I’d rather have Maladon, Tillman, Woodard, Perry, or Reed on this team than Austin or DSJ. How many picks did we get for 33?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 14, 2020, 03:52:54 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 14, 2020, 02:58:06 PM
Sorry - thought it was on the forum.  Scroll back, I guess.

There was this a month and a half ago - but no teeth to it

https://www.nbaanalysis.net/2020/10/30/3-trade-packages-to-send-kings-buddy-hield-to-the-knicks/4/

Then this one

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2921176-nba-trade-rumors-buzz-on-russell-westbrook-john-wall-buddy-hield-and-knicks

Barrett was the interesting one in that Sac would have almost definitely bit and it would not have cost much if any draft capital

These are not rumors. 

They are fantasies.  No different than things you or Fac or BoD would concoct for fun on this forum. 

Hey, I WAS fantasizing about Buddy as well as BB. 

Your John Wall fantasy was a projection.  And an interesting one. 

Chin music. 

Did any of us see Wall/Westbrook coming. 

For that matter, the NBA draft mocks. 

Everyone had the top 3. 

Did anyone have the next three? 

NOBODY. 

It's all fun, but ain't none of it real. 

None of these are scoops or even rumors. 

The blog equivalent of PornHub. 

Anyway, were Buddy to come available, I'd be kind of shocked.  Him and DeAron make a nice back court, and Haliborton can play with either of them. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 14, 2020, 04:10:56 PM
#33 went for the Piston’s second rounder in 2023. The Pistons could be good in 2023.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 14, 2020, 04:41:10 PM
FLYNN is an interesting story - one recruits in all sports can go to school on

5 foot 1 as a high school freshman.

5-6 after sophomore year, then started getting some love on AAU circuit

Senior year only had three D1 offers after averaging 30 and growing to 5-10

Played at home area Wasjington State where he started both years but was not happy - why not? - they werent good.

So here is a kid who is getting his - can do what he wants as leader of his team as a soph - and in his home area on a full ride - but he enters the transfer portal - looking to WIN.

Has to sit a year after deciding on Fresno - and he says that was the biggest year for his developent as all he did was work, work, work on his game

Then conference player of the year as a redshirt junior and takes his move to pro ball rather than return for another season (looks like a pretty good move since draft was weaker

TORONTO sure did notice - and played it cool - as it sure wasnt telegraphed he was going to them.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 14, 2020, 04:42:26 PM
PRAYING that over subsequent years we are not regretting taking IQ over Mssrs Flynn and Pritchard.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on December 14, 2020, 04:48:09 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 14, 2020, 04:42:26 PM
PRAYING that over subsequent years we are not regretting taking IQ over Mssrs Flynn and Pritchard.

Oh there's always *somebody*.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 14, 2020, 05:18:59 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 14, 2020, 04:10:56 PM
#33 went for the Piston’s second rounder in 2023. The Pistons could be good in 2023.

Supposedly it's a much better draft in 2023.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 14, 2020, 05:22:24 PM
Well, you gotta identify that somebody.
Especially when you're at the bottom as we are.
It seemed clear there'd be some pretty good PG prospects in the 20's.
I'm sure we checked out Malachi who sounded interesting.

I'm in favor of trading Randle for Hield.
We need the shooting and it opens up minutes for Obi/Knox, even MKG.
But Hield isn't cheap and a DAL 1st would also be a cost.
I'd also check into Hield's attitude, as a losing team doesn't need a lockerroom malcontent.  And can he handle NYC (ie does he like to party a lot, or is he chill).
When Hield focuses, his defense is solid.
I think Hield's impact can be less than his numbers suggest, which is definitely true of Dr. Julius, but he's played on a pretty incoherent Kings team.
I like Hield better than Randle and he fits our team better.
Title: Not to be a Deborah Downer but
Post by: Kam on December 14, 2020, 05:27:41 PM
Knicks are playing Detroit and Cleveland in the pre-season.  Not exactly beasts of the east.

In fact Knicks, Detroit, and Cleveland are picked to have the three worst records in the conference.

It's early, and we are rusty, but if we can't score more than 91 points against these teams then what does that portend?
Title: Re: Not to be a Deborah Downer but
Post by: FWK00 on December 14, 2020, 05:37:13 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 14, 2020, 05:27:41 PM
Knicks are playing Detroit and Cleveland in the pre-season.  Not exactly beasts of the east.

In fact Knicks, Detroit, and Cleveland are picked to have the three worst records in the conference.

It's early, and we are rusty, but if we can't score more than 91 points against these teams then what does that portend?

It means holding the other team to under 90.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 14, 2020, 05:51:00 PM
It means Thibs has barely put in a Defense, much less coached anyone up to play in it or tuned it to his personnel. The team is skating by on minimal offensive concepts, habits, and instincts. There’s no point in working out offense for guys who won’t be part of the D.

I hope to see a little evolution on both sides against the Cavs.

We’ll see what Tom really thinks on Festivus, after which he’ll surely receive some grievances.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 14, 2020, 05:55:51 PM
RJ and Burks can be the offensive workhorses. Everyone else needs to be focused on helping their teammates if they want to succeed.

As long as Randle can limit Obi more than Obi can limit Randle, Randle should start.

The same goes for Payton and any other lead guard.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 14, 2020, 06:00:12 PM
DSJ really shit the bed so far.  This was supposed to be his comeback year.   Shooting with Mahmoud Abdul Rauf.  If he can't defend he can at least run a team , if he can't run a team he can at least learn to shoot.  Early returns not good on the shooting.  What is his NBA skill?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 14, 2020, 06:09:04 PM
lol, he has been awful, like out-of-the-NBA pretty quick awful, picking right up from where he left off last year. I'm hoping he gets more run and a chance to show ANYTHING these next two preseason games but suspect we ain't gonna see him again once the W's & L's mean something.


*** four preseason games and no real camp ain't much to get in any kind of groove — after 8 months off, marginal players on delete 8 teams really did get screwed — but Coach has games to win so it is what it is

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 14, 2020, 06:10:22 PM
Watching the 1Q of BKY-WAS.
Avdija looks good.  Nice feel for the game.
Moves well, popped his first 3.
One trip, got the FT rebound, dribbled up court, used a screen to penetrate to the FT line and dropped a pass
down low to an open Mo Wagner for a jam (KD spaced out on D).
Deni also calling plays and aware on D. 

Deni and ObiT two of the most NBA rooks.

I knew Nash had Dantmanbee as an assistant.
But I didn't realize he had added Amare as well.
Amare knows Avdija from last year in Israel.

Cassius Winston looks pretty solid.  Could be a nice backup PG.
Mo Wagner looking spry in pre-season.
Hachimura energetic, though I thought he was a little taller than 6'8".

Kyrie & Durant made scoring look easy.  Though both were iffy on D.  But of course it's pre-season.

I couldn't find the Knix replay.
And only watched 1Q of the Nets.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 14, 2020, 06:24:41 PM
Well, you gotta identify that somebody.
Especially when you're at the bottom as we are.
It seemed clear there'd be some pretty good PG prospects in the 20's.
I'm sure we checked out Malachi who sounded interesting.


Yeah - pessimist in me says we may be relying a bit too much on being Team Kentucky

I know Calipari wanted Quickley here, as he did with Malik Monk - who would have fit nicely.

But after Knox.....

Needed the shooter, no doubt.  Get er done, IQ.
Title: Vassell
Post by: chipstern on December 14, 2020, 06:25:13 PM
Tom Orsborn: DeMar DeRozan on Devin Vassell: “He’s fearless…He’s learning fast.” – via Twitter tom_orsborn
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 14, 2020, 06:27:35 PM
Gonna catch game 2 now - will chime in on Smith
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 14, 2020, 06:34:05 PM
Easy to see from the box what the positives were

https://www.nba.com/game/nyk-vs-det-0012000015/box-score
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 14, 2020, 06:37:02 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 14, 2020, 06:00:12 PM
DSJ really shit the bed so far.  This was supposed to be his comeback year.   Shooting with Mahmoud Abdul Rauf.  If he can't defend he can at least run a team , if he can't run a team he can at least learn to shoot.  Early returns not good on the shooting.  What is his NBA skill?

Well...

a handle. for one

But this doesnt come automatically with good decisions
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 14, 2020, 06:39:02 PM
Sczerbiak really pubbing Payton, who I see was a +9 but limited to just 17 minutes

PG worries may be a bit overblown
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 14, 2020, 06:41:43 PM
New Orleans- Miami tonight at 7, NBATV
Title: Ron Harper Jr.
Post by: Kam on December 14, 2020, 08:20:07 PM
Keep an eye on Ron Harper's kid who plays for Rutgers.   Could be one of our 1st round selections.

Rutgers is 5 - 0 !!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 14, 2020, 08:53:04 PM
I thought Smith to be shaky on 2 plays in first quarter, but made a couple of nice passes, moved the ball ok at times

One particular juke and baseline drive yielded a Mitch dunk

Noticed the statline was 3-1 assist/to but Knicks sadly clanked 2 early DSJ setups
Title: Re: Ron Harper Jr.
Post by: bodiddley on December 14, 2020, 11:50:08 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 14, 2020, 08:20:07 PM
Keep an eye on Ron Harper's kid who plays for Rutgers.   Could be one of our 1st round selections.
Rutgers is 5 - 0 !!!

The next John Battle!

Thanks for the heads up.
I'll tell my father, a Seton Hall alum, to check out Jr. Harp and these Scarlet Knights. 
Title: Re: Ron Harper Jr.
Post by: Kam on December 15, 2020, 03:28:36 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 14, 2020, 11:50:08 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 14, 2020, 08:20:07 PM
Keep an eye on Ron Harper's kid who plays for Rutgers.   Could be one of our 1st round selections.
Rutgers is 5 - 0 !!!

The next John Battle!

Thanks for the heads up.
I'll tell my father, a Seton Hall alum, to check out Jr. Harp and these Scarlet Knights.

If he was a Knick right now Ron Harper Jr would be easily one of our 5 best players.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 15, 2020, 08:42:10 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 14, 2020, 08:53:04 PM
I thought Smith to be shaky on 2 plays in first quarter, but made a couple of nice passes, moved the ball ok at times

One particular juke and baseline drive yielded a Mitch dunk

Noticed the statline was 3-1 assist/to but Knicks sadly clanked 2 early DSJ setups

Yes, of course and Trump, JFK JR, 200+ generals started planning the DEEP STATE takedown decades ago.

JFK JR’s political GEORGE magazine (1990s) and Trump’s Celebrity Apprentice show (around 2000-2014) were part of the plan. JFK JR ‘innocently’ interviewing DEEP STATE minions, and Trump getting right in the middle of the Hollywood cesspool - Imagine the Intel they gleaned. 🚀🍿

Arrests started in 1/2017, and military tribunals truly got started in 1/2019. Trump had a rally in MS in 12/2018 to prove all were in GITMO - the WITNESS PROTECTION PROGRAM were all behind him, showing they were now safe to come out, although they are still in disguise to not freak people out - will be coming out soon along with DSj's game.

Title: Re: Ron Harper Jr.
Post by: chipstern on December 15, 2020, 09:56:59 AM
Quote from: Kam on December 15, 2020, 03:28:36 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 14, 2020, 11:50:08 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 14, 2020, 08:20:07 PM
Keep an eye on Ron Harper's kid who plays for Rutgers.   Could be one of our 1st round selections.
Rutgers is 5 - 0 !!!

The next John Battle!

Thanks for the heads up.
I'll tell my father, a Seton Hall alum, to check out Jr. Harp and these Scarlet Knights.

If he was a Knick right now Ron Harper Jr would be easily one of our 5 best players.

Ah, yes, RON HARPER. 

The 1986 Draft. 

When Indiana beat us out on Chuck Person at #4, Ron Harper was on the board at #5.  We took Kenny Walker and Ron went at #8 to the Cavs.  Harper the Senior, pre-knee injuries, would've been one hell of a match for Patrick as he was basically good for 20-5-5 for the next nine seasons. 

Sabonis The Senior went at 24

Mark Price at 25

Dennis Rodman at 27

Jeff Hornacek at 46

Michael Jackson of Gerogetown at 47 to the Knicks [three seasons as a scrub for the Kings]

Drazen Petrovic at 60

La
De
Dah DeDAH

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 15, 2020, 10:11:26 AM
That was the drug draft.
The careers of 4 of the Top 7 were drug casualties.
At least we got a guy who wasn't drug suspended out of the league.
Lotta chances for error that draft.

The draft also went on and on.
I think I was drafted in the 7th round.
I might have been using the alias Baskerville Holmes at the time, but the drug haze makes it hard to be sure ...   

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 15, 2020, 10:25:50 AM
CLE with one the great drafts,
They selected Brad Daughtery #1; Harper #8 and traded a future 2nd rounder for #25 Mark Price (1st pick of the 2nd round).

To get 3 starters in one draft, your franchise best C and PG, and a dynamic SG is remarkable.  Too bad when Harp got injured, CLE traded him the the Clippers for Danny Ferryboat.

At age 31 Harper came to CHI and became a role player while still starting.
From age 31 to 37 Harper won 5 championships in a 7 year period.
Smart savvy player.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jerrya on December 15, 2020, 10:48:48 AM
Can't believe Quickley didn't get any minutes in Game 1.  We need shooters and he's one of the few we have.  Play him now.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 15, 2020, 11:43:15 AM
Quote from: Jerrya on December 15, 2020, 10:48:48 AM
Can't believe Quickley didn't get any minutes in Game 1.  We need shooters and he's one of the few we have.  Play him now.

He'll get his shot.  'Cause he's GOT a SHOT. 

Catch your breath.  No worries.  A LONG SEASON. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 15, 2020, 11:44:38 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 15, 2020, 10:11:26 AM
That was the drug draft.
The careers of 4 of the Top 7 were drug casualties.
At least we got a guy who wasn't drug suspended out of the league.
Lotta chances for error that draft.

The draft also went on and on.
I think I was drafted in the 7th round.
I might have been using the alias Baskerville Holmes at the time, but the drug haze makes it hard to be sure ...

Yes, I remember BH. 

The Hunan Hound. 

No defense, but one hell of a jumper. 

Went on to play with LesterDawg in the C-League. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 15, 2020, 12:05:31 PM
Nahhh

DSJ would dust Harper in One on One - though HORSE might be a tossup.

Don't get ahead of yourself
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 15, 2020, 12:50:17 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 15, 2020, 12:05:31 PM
Nahhh

DSJ would dust Harper in One on One - though HORSE might be a tossup.

Don't get ahead of yourself

You think? 

Wish you were right. 

I remember when Harper and Mark Jackson were Clippers, and they dusted the Knicks. 

If Austin Rivers gives us half of what pre-knee Doc Rivers gave us, we might have a shot. 

Numbers don't leap out at you, but Doc played with so much tenacity and competitive fire. 
Title: Eyetest
Post by: lesterluv on December 15, 2020, 01:40:50 PM
DSJ will be playing plenty of horse soon and not much else if he doesn't show something mighty promptly besides that "handle." He's got a ticket, about to be punched, that says "out-of-the-league"

He doesn't appear to have a clue what to do in the game of basketball.
Last year, it felt like as soon as he checked in it was an instant 10 point deficit.
Appearances weren't deceiving. Out of 95 NBA PG's, he ranked 95th, yes, 95th, +/- wise.

Things weren't much better in previous seasons so I don't think we can blame it on dead relatives or whatever.

Not much of note on his resume besides pulling a D Rose and walking out on his team midseason in a pout when Luka started getting more cheers and love in Dallas. Great stuff.

First two preseason games he's looked like crap, turning the ball over, getting stuck in traps at midcoast, basically no clue.

There's no evidence to suggest he will ever be a starting NBA PG or even a decent reserve. Probably a bigger chance that Donald gets sworn in again come January.

Title: The Last Word In Absurd
Post by: chipstern on December 15, 2020, 02:05:48 PM
Just saw an article on DAILY KNICKS about how Leon could make us a winner. 

A buffet table of bullshit: free agents we have no shot at, trades that are the last word in absurd. 

Giannis just reupped.  Now THERE'S A SUPRISE.  Max, with a fifth year option.  Miami re-upped Bam a few weeks back for the max.  They share an agent.  In poker we call that a tell. 

We will have to build slowly through the draft, deveoping youth, keeping cap flex, finding potential in second tier free agents. 
Title: Heavy Sigh
Post by: bodiddley on December 15, 2020, 02:09:13 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baskerville_Holmes

Played with William Bedford and Keith Lee in college (Memphis).
After some overseas ball, wound up a truck driver and then shot his girlfriend dead and then decided to off himself.  Just shy of 33 when that ugly ish went down. 
Harsh.
Drugs and depression in the mix.
Title: Re: Heavy Sigh
Post by: chipstern on December 15, 2020, 02:34:44 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 15, 2020, 02:09:13 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baskerville_Holmes

Played with William Bedford and Keith Lee in college (Memphis).
After some overseas ball, wound up a truck driver and then shot his girlfriend dead and then decided to off himself.  Just shy of 33 when that ugly ish went down. 
Harsh.
Drugs and depression in the mix.

Oh Smack!

I thought you were just being clever, in your alter ego of Throw Diddling. 

So sad.
Title: Re: Heavy Sigh
Post by: FWK00 on December 15, 2020, 02:47:40 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 15, 2020, 02:09:13 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baskerville_Holmes

Played with William Bedford and Keith Lee in college (Memphis).
After some overseas ball, wound up a truck driver and then shot his girlfriend dead and then decided to off himself.  Just shy of 33 when that ugly ish went down. 
Harsh.
Drugs and depression in the mix.

We're not thinking about signing him are we?
Title: Re: Eyetest
Post by: FWK00 on December 15, 2020, 02:50:00 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on December 15, 2020, 01:40:50 PM
DSJ will be playing plenty of horse soon and not much else if he doesn't show something mighty promptly besides that "handle." He's got a ticket, about to be punched, that says "out-of-the-league"

He doesn't appear to have a clue what to do in the game of basketball.
Last year, it felt like as soon as he checked in it was an instant 10 point deficit.
Appearances weren't deceiving. Out of 95 NBA PG's, he ranked 95th, yes, 95th, +/- wise.

Things weren't much better in previous seasons so I don't think we can blame it on dead relatives or whatever.

Not much of note on his resume besides pulling a D Rose and walking out on his team midseason in a pout when Luka started getting more cheers and love in Dallas. Great stuff.

First two preseason games he's looked like crap, turning the ball over, getting stuck in traps at midcoast, basically no clue.

There's no evidence to suggest he will ever be a starting NBA PG or even a decent reserve. Probably a bigger chance that Donald gets sworn in again come January.

What games were you watching?  Kiid claims he's a double double away from being resigned.
Title: Re: Ron Harper Jr.
Post by: Kam on December 15, 2020, 02:59:40 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 14, 2020, 11:50:08 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 14, 2020, 08:20:07 PM
Keep an eye on Ron Harper's kid who plays for Rutgers.   Could be one of our 1st round selections.
Rutgers is 5 - 0 !!!

The next John Battle!

Thanks for the heads up.
I'll tell my father, a Seton Hall alum, to check out Jr. Harp and these Scarlet Knights.

Rutgers is 5-0 and has won each game by double digits. They are for real.

Rutgers has a team worth watching if you have the Big 10 Network. Their PG Jacob Young is pretty good too. They have this big man Myles Johnson underneath who eat rebounds. A Senior three-pt gunner in Geo Baker, and a 6-6 Freshman PG off the bench in Paul Mulcahy who averaged a triple-double in High School (the first NJ player to do so in 26 years).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 15, 2020, 06:00:11 PM
Quote from: Jerrya on December 15, 2020, 10:48:48 AM
Can't believe Quickley didn't get any minutes in Game 1.  We need shooters and he's one of the few we have.  Play him now.

Cool beans.  But as I have mentioned he isn't a PG

Undersized shooter.  Sort of like that feaux Mormon that once wore out colors

In other news - J Lin still hoping for a shot with someone as he works out with G League Ignite

Hmmmm....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 15, 2020, 06:02:03 PM
And in other other news.....

LOVEDDD Kenny Sky Walker.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: josh on December 15, 2020, 08:40:36 PM
I have added a new topic, using the former Immigration forum, called Upon Deeper Consideration:

http://forums.escapefromelba.com/index.php?topic=180.msg158695#new

That link has a description of both intended content and intended dialog. Please join me there if you would like to have conversations on substance, not personality, concerning bigger issues with more meat to the exchanges of our thoughts.
Title: Ok
Post by: carlos123 on December 15, 2020, 08:56:29 PM
Quote from: josh on December 15, 2020, 08:40:36 PM
I have added a new topic, using the former Immigration forum, called Upon Deeper Consideration:

http://forums.escapefromelba.com/index.php?topic=180.msg158695#new

That link has a description of both intended content and intended dialog. Please join me there if you would like to have conversations on substance, not personality, concerning bigger issues with more meat to the exchanges of our thoughts.

Ok, I tried.
Thanks for your efforts, Josh.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 15, 2020, 09:53:54 PM
Quote from: josh on December 15, 2020, 08:40:36 PM
I have added a new topic, using the former Immigration forum, called Upon Deeper Consideration:

http://forums.escapefromelba.com/index.php?topic=180.msg158695#new

That link has a description of both intended content and intended dialog. Please join me there if you would like to have conversations on substance, not personality, concerning bigger issues with more meat to the exchanges of our thoughts.

Good idea.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 15, 2020, 10:38:40 PM
Genuine factual discussion without personality clashes and trolling.  Revolutionary.

Just caught a few good plays by Halliburton.
Jumped a passing lane and took the steal all the way for a jam with two guys chasing.
Then next play drove right and bounced a nice pass around his defender to Whiteside underneath for an easy bucket.  A good find.  In between, he made another nice read on D to prevent a pass to the corner off a GS drive.
Looks mature and active and locked in on both ends.  In good shape.
Just saw him out there a few minutes of pre-season, but he looked like a player.
(haven't seen him shoot yet, but he was making an impact).

Otherwise DeA Fox looks mighty fast.
Title: Thibs sounds a little frustrated
Post by: Kam on December 15, 2020, 10:51:54 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EpUGRG2XYAA9MsC?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EpUGRXpXYAMFpnF?format=jpg&name=medium)
Title: Re: Ok
Post by: josh on December 15, 2020, 11:01:13 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 15, 2020, 08:56:29 PM

Ok, I tried.
Thanks for your efforts, Josh.

Quote from: Kam on December 15, 2020, 09:53:54 PM

Good idea.

Quote from: bodiddley on December 15, 2020, 10:38:40 PM
Genuine factual discussion without personality clashes and trolling.  Revolutionary.

Thank you, to each of you.

We'll do the best we can to make it work.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 15, 2020, 11:43:50 PM
Halliburton with two nice drives and dishes to Richuan Holmes for layups. 3 assists in 10 mins.  Though TyH also has 3 turnovers I didn't see.
Just pre-season and guys like Oubre are notably going maybe 70%.
But TyHal looks like a player.
I'm also a Rich Holmes fan.  That could be a nice 2nd unit hookup.

Whiteside looks good for Sacto.
9 & 7 with 3 blocks in 10 mins.
Wouldn't be surprised if he becomes their starting C.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 15, 2020, 11:52:41 PM
Good to finally see Tyrese, I agree.

DeAaron Fox is one of the guys to watch in terms of taking that next leap this year.

Sorry, Bo - I am a Wiggins guy.  Fits nice with Dubs.

Fun game (damn - should have taken Curry - so much fun to watch)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 16, 2020, 12:25:20 AM
Random fun game.

Nico Manion competes.
Good to see a redhead out there too.
Title: Re: Thibs sounds a little frustrated
Post by: FWK00 on December 16, 2020, 01:18:04 AM
Quote from: Kam on December 15, 2020, 10:51:54 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EpUGRG2XYAA9MsC?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EpUGRXpXYAMFpnF?format=jpg&name=medium)

I didn't sense any frustration at all.  He was just giving an NBA 101 lecture on how things get done.

That's not to say that we can't use a star - only to point out that Thibs was not advocating anything more than sound player  management principles.
 
However and more concerning, Hahn had a FB chat tonight in which he suspects that the Knicks  are committed to developing DSJ and Randall (at least until further notice).  It appears that Thibs and co. have put in quite a bit of sweat equity in these guys and want to see it through.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 16, 2020, 02:10:17 AM
I think Chip laughed at me when I was interested in Marquise Chriss.
Pre-season, but he dropped 17 & 9 in 19 minutes.  3-4 on 3's. 
He's bulked up a bit and now often plays C at 6'9".
I didn't really get to check out his D, but his offensive game looked pretty good.
Just 23, only 8 months older than ObiT.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 16, 2020, 06:49:58 AM
Btw, some Guy named Kyle was 6-10 on 3's & hit the game winner 3 as time ended.
A good way to endear yourself to your teammates.
Kyle Guy was the Knix #55 pick in 2019, then flipped to Sacto for the rights to Iggy.
KG is listed as a 6'1" 167 pound SG (from Virginia).
But he can shoot.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 16, 2020, 07:58:22 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 15, 2020, 11:52:41 PM
Sorry, Bo - I am a Wiggins guy.  Fits nice with Dubs.

Still seems a good deal of wild to his game.
Crazy spin moves and such.
Needs to focus more.
Uncle Wiggy is also a $30M man.
Title: Talent Wanted--Apply Within
Post by: chipstern on December 16, 2020, 09:00:13 AM
Star Talent

Free Agency Is Largely A DEAD END. 

Anthony Davis?

Gone

Giannis?

Gone

Who is coming? 

Kawhi?

Free agency favors the drafting team. 

Van Vleet? 

Vaccaro in the Post of all places, in tracing our history of frustration in bringing bell cows to the Garden, concluded, with some regret, that WE HAVE TO GROW OUR OWN. 

PS: I like Spights.  I mock many Bo's GM Diddling moves because they are phantasmagorical click bait and not based in the laws of time and space.  WELL, CHIP, I HAD A TRADE OF CARMELO THAT INCLUDED JAYLEN BROWN.  WASN'T THAT PRESCIENT OF ME.  Sure was...a thing, right, based in reality?  Because you have Ainge on speed dial.  Did he pay for lunch?  Or did you have to use your Dolan AMEX Card? 

PPS: My three cents going into the draft were Haliburton, followed by Vassell and Lewis. Chicago, Cleveland and Atlanta did not pick as per mock expectations.  Never expected Toppin to drop.  Let alone Avdija.  Hard to pass on either of them.  Not sure why the Knicks were less than taken with Haliburton, let alone the Pistons, who also passed.  I think they are all going to be very good players.  No sense crying over spilt milk, and Toppin AIN'T SPILT MILK.

PPPS: Dennis Smith Jr.  SPILT MILK?  By all means NY, let's kick a man when he's down.  Thibs & Rose seem committed to the kid, even if only as trade bait.  I'm still rooting for him and baffled by what happenned to the 2018-2019 edition.  Only two games so might be a little early to mount him on the funeral pyre, but even a PomPom Gurl like me is flummoxed. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 16, 2020, 10:30:26 AM
Why do you overlook what Smith did on his 3 assists in Game 2 plus the 2 clear set ups that were clanked?

I thought he moved well off the ball as well and acqitted himself ok defensively.

Ball in hand at end of quarters and shot clocks seems an issue but Knicks spacing did not help.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 16, 2020, 10:33:04 AM
Knix need to look for smart trades and to develop players.
We let a shooter like McDermott slip away.  Career 41% on 3's.
Should have tried to develop him.
(Btw, we flipped him for Muddy)

Can't have constant churn and one year contracts.
Can't build cohesion that way.
When we have a solid team with some good players and things sorted out, then a high-level FA might want to come to NYK.
Need to get our house in order first.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 16, 2020, 10:33:18 AM
I would get Dennis some time with the starters Game 3.

Rivers should help if he is available with Dennis on second unit.

DSJ/AR/Reggie over DSJ/Frank/ Knox - get a clearer picture.
Title: Vets
Post by: bodiddley on December 16, 2020, 10:40:05 AM
Thus far in pre-season, Thibs sticking with his rep.  Playing vets over yute.
Nawlins over Mitch
Elf over Jr. Smith
Randle over ObiT
(to some extent Burks over RJB at SG, which would open a slot for Knox/ObiT at SF if RJB started at SG).

We'll see how the season plays out.
But Thibs generally hasn't cared to play rooks much in the past.
While the shortened pre-season also favors going with vets . . .

(it's also a reason to think that MKG will make the roster/rotation).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 16, 2020, 11:52:15 AM
Kidd-Gilchrist?

Has to be better than Reggie first.

I just don't think you add an offensively challenged minute eater to this current group.
Title: Dennis NOT A Menace
Post by: chipstern on December 16, 2020, 01:13:43 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 16, 2020, 10:30:26 AM
Why do you overlook what Smith did on his 3 assists in Game 2 plus the 2 clear set ups that were clanked?

I thought he moved well off the ball as well and acqitted himself ok defensively.

Ball in hand at end of quarters and shot clocks seems an issue but Knicks spacing did not help.

Uh, Earth to Kiid.

I'm one of DS-Junior's PomPom Gurls. 

He'd done a number of things well, and would have more assists if Knicks could actually make some shots. 

And I agree it would be nice to see him with the starters for a spell.  Might give him some confidence. 

But I'm still waiting to see him penetrate with the agression and purpose he did for us two years ago.  He seems spooked. 

Stefan Bondy: Knicks injury report for tonight’s preseason home opener against the Cavs: Michael Kidd Gilchrist (illness) and Austin Rivers (sore right groin) are out; Frank Ntilikina (sore left Achilles) and Nerlens Noel (sore left knee) are doubtful. – via Twitter SBondyNYDN

I'm hoping, conservative as Thibs is, if there are no Frank or Nerelns or Gilchrist options, that we might see a taste of Omari Spellman at C, Immaneul Quickley at PG/SG, and Ignatz Brazdeikis at SF...ALL GUYS WHO CAN SHOOT.  Yea, I know, fat chance.  More likely Randle & Obi at C/PF. 

PS: I would expect to see Dotson light us the fuck up tonight. 
Title: Free Agent Options?
Post by: chipstern on December 16, 2020, 01:32:16 PM
Can You Spell

https://nypost.com/2020/12/16/kawhi-leonard-jrue-holiday-among-dwindling-star-options-for-knicks/ (https://nypost.com/2020/12/16/kawhi-leonard-jrue-holiday-among-dwindling-star-options-for-knicks/)

Z-E-R-O?

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 16, 2020, 01:55:21 PM
Smith should get minutes with the starters when they are on the bench and the second unit is on the floor. He should also get minutes with the second unit when the starters are all out on the floor.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 16, 2020, 02:01:55 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 16, 2020, 01:55:21 PM
Smith should get minutes with the starters when they are on the bench and the second unit is on the floor. He should also get minutes with the second unit when the starters are all out on the floor.

Cute.

Channeling your Inner LesterDawg. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 16, 2020, 04:11:35 PM
Salman Ali: The Houston Rockets have waived Jerian Grant, Trevelin Queen, and Kenny Wooten. – via Twitter SalmanAliNBA
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 16, 2020, 04:15:39 PM
lol, going on record as wanting to see Dennis Smith Jr. for 48 minutes tonight and 48 minutes on Friday.

LET'S SEE WHAT HE'S GOT BEFORE HE MOVES ON TO THE EASTERN SEABOARD HORSE REGIONALS


*** I want to see him with Mitch and Nerlins Noel, I want to see him with Randall and RJB, I want to see him next to Burks and next to Bullock, I want to see him with Obi Toppin and Obi Wan Kenobi, I want to see him in a box, I want to see him with a fox, i want to see him on a train and on a plane, yes sir yes sir Sam I Am I do like Dennis Smith Jr...
Title: Cough
Post by: chipstern on December 16, 2020, 06:04:35 PM
Marc J. Spears: The Hornets say forward Gordon Hayward sustained an avulsion fracture of his fifth metacarpal on his right hand during the team’s preseason game against the Raptors on Dec. 14. Hayward will miss Thursday’s preseason game at Orlando and will be listed as day-to-day moving forward. – via Twitter MarcJSpears
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 16, 2020, 07:29:24 PM
MITCH and REGGIE get starts tonight
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 16, 2020, 10:12:50 PM
Our bigs have to learn to help our guards get to the spots they want open for shots. That will be the challenge.

Otherwise good game.

2/3 of the Knicks beat 1/2 the Cavs. Better than if it went the other way around.

That was 16 minutes I could stand seeing out of Smith on the regular. Quickley earned his 24.

Quickley Barrett backcourt looked really good.

Glad to see Mitch come back to life and Obi have a bounce back game.

We’re starting to see the growth and value in Knox.

Some good hookups leaving us a lot to look forward to.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 16, 2020, 10:45:22 PM
Will try to catch a replay.

Be nice if Quickly and ObiT can develop some chemistry.
The group that started went 2-16 on 3's. 

I never heard of any of the half dozen bench players the Cavs used. Not a one.
Maybe one will make the roster.  So really we beat up Gatorade players.

Okoro hit his 3's.  How was his form?  High turnovers and fouls, but that's what pre-season is for.

Good to see Knox and Jr. Smith put up some numbers even if it was against D-leagured players.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 16, 2020, 11:03:55 PM
Conversation turns positive off huge 4th quarter

But that's partly the coaching.  Positivity.  And not just Thibs I am sure

Good showup by the KY boys.

Quickley can in fact pass a little.  Translates to playing PG here?  Not sure.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 16, 2020, 11:22:42 PM
Bo

Dylan Windler made a bit of a name for himself last year

They had one guy that is a 28-year old rookie, should he make the team

Garland was pretty good.  Drummond very.

I wonder if they are best with Sexton off the bench.  Garland plays well with the reins.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 17, 2020, 12:40:44 AM
Well, maybe the year before in college.
Windler missed his rook year with a leg fracture.
Was the #29 pick in 2019.

Title: Takedown
Post by: carlos123 on December 17, 2020, 12:51:32 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 17, 2020, 12:40:44 AM
Well, maybe the year before in college.
Windler missed his rook year with a leg fracture.
Was the #29 pick in 2019.

Wow!!!
😁🤣
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 17, 2020, 03:02:46 AM
Some folks get so far past it they lose track of the year. Shame, really. Time wounds all heels.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 17, 2020, 08:53:35 AM
More on Windler, whose minor injury last night may have opened the door to NY victory

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/dylan-windler-e2-80-98fine-e2-80-99-after-injury-scare-forces-him-to-exit-third-preseason-game-early/ar-BB1bZTjG

Player to watch
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 17, 2020, 01:33:28 PM
Good to see a 4th qtr comeback led by the kids.  At on point Toppin was the oldest Knick on the court.
Title: "And the crowd is in a frenzy..."
Post by: chipstern on December 17, 2020, 02:00:22 PM
So sayeth Clyde tongue in cheek. 

It was all worth it for that fourth quarter, admittedly our puppy scrubs against theirs, but wonderful cohesion and spirit. 

* Thibs not feeding Dennis Smith to the hyenas.  Mike Breen has been saying for two years that DS has the tools to be an excellent defensive player.  Well, in 16 minutes he had 5 steals and 2 blocks, to go with 4 assists and 2-4 from trey, so Thibs sitcking by him, and Dennis responding.  He also paired well with Immanuel in their time together.  From the little acorn...

* I didn't get a taste of Bradeikis [the 6'1" guard we picked late in the second round and traded for Iggy, Kyle Guy, was LIGHTS out for the Kings and he can really fucking shoot], but a cameo of Spellman was inconclusive when Mitchell got in foul trouble.  Looks a little, if not paunchy, relatively zaftig, and missed both his jumpers, but had a nice assist as the ball rounded the horn ina a five minute cameo. 

* Well, KAM called it, in defending our puppies in general, and Kevin Knox in particular, pointing out how it is not completely fair to judge his progress based on playing WITHOUT A POINT GUARD.  Frank joing Austin on the pine, opened up time for Dennis and Immanuel, and Quickley was a revelation.  First of all, the joy he projects is infectious, and he was utterly fearless...a nice floater and finish at the hoop, as well as one trey, but as great a shooter and FT shooter, it was his defense and the cohesion he engendered as a facilitator, triggering a number of Kevin Knox treys, who was also aggressive as a defender, passer and shooter, as well as some great Gotham Slams by, as I recall, Mitchell, Kevin and multiples by Obi [That last Biblical Propecy by Obidiah, in which he flushed a flying baseline tomahawk off of a Quickley feed with incredible aggression like an enraged Teradactyl...my GOD, but the Garden had it been filled, motherfuckers would've levitated]. 

* The fourth quarter, Obi was at what, 22, the oldest Knicks on the floor in our ALL PUPPY LINEUP: Robinson, Toppin, Knox, Barrett, Quickley.  Don't want to get too giddy, but I have been waiting most of my adult life to see the Knicks follow this path out of the wilderness.  Mitchell, after a rought start, settled down, and played well; Obi picked his spots with 4-6, 7 boards and a steal, Kevin played with fire and focus [16-4-2, with 3-5 from trey] and I was really proud of his effort and intensity;  RJ was 16-6-2 and 3-3 from the FT line, with some good looks for his teammates.  And Quickley?  Is he a PG.  Well, SEVEN ASSISTS, getting all of his team mates involved, and leading a fourth quarter comeback is a nice start.  Again, as much as his skill set, the sheery joy and enthusiasm Immanuel and Obi bring to the table, and how they bonded with Mitchell, Kevin and RJ was encouraging. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 17, 2020, 03:49:42 PM
I think the group we saw close this game should be the group we look towards to close in the regular season. Foul issues or a bad matchup could throw one or more of those ends spots to a vet or different young guy over the course of the game, but generally we should try to get to that lineup. It’s as close as we’ve been to a viable youth core since the one we traded for Melo.

I think Payton, Burks, and Randle all still have starts, but the closer group should all see at least 24 minutes a game.

Noel, Reggie, DSJ, and Frank also still have important roles to play on this team.

Iggy, Rivers, and Spellman are the three players most easily shed to upgrade our talent, with Spellman and Iggy being most at risk.

Title: Funny Quote
Post by: chipstern on December 17, 2020, 04:47:58 PM
Denver's Will Barton doubling down on his dickishness, declaring he has no intention of being a sixth man. 

Coach Michael Malone?

"It's not my job to make people happy.  If I wanted to make people happy I would sell ice cream."

Tough love. 

Not unlike Thibs. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 17, 2020, 05:09:41 PM
Not sure any of our guys could help DEN.  Barton would be a nice acq.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 17, 2020, 05:27:43 PM
Vanessa Bryant has accused her mother Sofia Laine of trying to “extort a financial windfall” from her through a “frivolous” and “disgraceful” lawsuit after the death of her husband Kobe Bryant and daughter Gianna. – via Analis Bailey, Josh Peter @ USA Today Sports
 Gianna Bryant, Law, Vanessa Bryant, Kobe Bryant

According to court documents obtained by USA TODAY Sports and filed Tuesday in California, Laine is seeking financial support from her daughter, alleging that she worked unpaid as a “longtime personal assistant and nanny” for the Bryant family. Laine claims that prior to Kobe Bryant’s death, he promised to “take care of” the 68-year-old for the “rest of her life.” – via Analis Bailey, Josh Peter @ USA Today Sports
 Gianna Bryant, Law, Vanessa Bryant, Kobe Bryant

In her lawsuit, Laine claims she worked for more than 12 hours a day with no meal or rest break while taking care of the Bryants’ children for almost 18 years because Vanessa Bryant gave her a “grueling schedule and detailed instructions.” Bryant said her mother “only occasionally babysat my older girls when they were toddlers.” Bryant said her mother is contacting her through intermediaries demanding $5 million, a house and a Mercedes SUV


So fucking give it to her.


This chick has bothered me from the get go.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 17, 2020, 09:48:35 PM
Fantasy league drafts at 11 PM Eastern (in one hour)

Yahoo Public leagues - search for ELBA

Title: Mr. Know-It-All
Post by: carlos123 on December 17, 2020, 10:03:17 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 17, 2020, 05:27:43 PM
Vanessa Bryant has accused her mother Sofia Laine of trying to “extort a financial windfall” from her through a “frivolous” and “disgraceful” lawsuit after the death of her husband Kobe Bryant and daughter Gianna. – via Analis Bailey, Josh Peter @ USA Today Sports
 Gianna Bryant, Law, Vanessa Bryant, Kobe Bryant

According to court documents obtained by USA TODAY Sports and filed Tuesday in California, Laine is seeking financial support from her daughter, alleging that she worked unpaid as a “longtime personal assistant and nanny” for the Bryant family. Laine claims that prior to Kobe Bryant’s death, he promised to “take care of” the 68-year-old for the “rest of her life.” – via Analis Bailey, Josh Peter @ USA Today Sports
 Gianna Bryant, Law, Vanessa Bryant, Kobe Bryant

In her lawsuit, Laine claims she worked for more than 12 hours a day with no meal or rest break while taking care of the Bryants’ children for almost 18 years because Vanessa Bryant gave her a “grueling schedule and detailed instructions.” Bryant said her mother “only occasionally babysat my older girls when they were toddlers.” Bryant said her mother is contacting her through intermediaries demanding $5 million, a house and a Mercedes SUV


So fucking give it to her.


This chick has bothered me from the get go.

You must know ALL about the case.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 17, 2020, 10:07:04 PM
Kupchak is doing well by Jordan. They’ve got a nice team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 17, 2020, 10:29:35 PM
Any details?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 17, 2020, 10:29:51 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 17, 2020, 10:07:04 PM
Kupchak is doing well by Jordan. They’ve got a nice team.

Ball 5 assists and 4-9 from trey.  How about THAT?

Cole Anthony 3-4 from trey with 4 boards and 4 assists.  Good for him. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 17, 2020, 10:31:08 PM
Anthony was 16-4-4 last game - and LaMelo had 2 threes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 18, 2020, 12:47:40 AM
Watched the 1Q & most of the 4Q of the CLE game.

Quickly looked good, energetic, kept his dribble tossed up lobs.
But all of that -- and Dennis Smith mugging Mr. Mooney for 5 steals -- came against non-NBA players.  The NBA Cavs killed us.

Knox played well.  Be aggressive, get in the mix.  Loved that one rebound and quick outlet to RJB.

Okoro looked pretty solid.  Splashed a pair of open 3's with good form.  Made his FT's.  Shadowed RJB all night.  He was a bit amped up so got a foul 4 secs into the game not letting Barrett cut.  But his O looked much better than advertised.  And he's got good defensive awareness and a strong body.

I liked the orange sneaks on both Elf and RJB.
Spellman isn't NBA with that baby fat.
Datsun was looking to pass and not shoot.  Wonder if that's what CLE wants, but he turned down some ops he probably should have taken.  Should be in CLE's rotation.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 18, 2020, 02:52:38 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 18, 2020, 12:47:40 AM


Knox played well.  Be aggressive, get in the mix.  Loved that one rebound and quick outlet to RJB.


I was watching the game in real time but had to pause it to rewind my DVD and watch that play again. 
I didn't know Knox had the court awareness to make that play.
That was eye-opening.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 18, 2020, 09:46:36 AM
https://nypost.com/2020/12/17/knicks-immanuel-quickley-making-mock-drafts-look-silly/

Whoa

Not sure of the headline.  But imagine - if in the redraft years from now Obi comes in top 5 and Immanuel top 10
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 18, 2020, 09:50:54 AM
Berman's rather preposterous.  or click-baiting.

One good quarter of one pre-season game against 5 Cavs who haven't played int he NBA.  Just a tad early to see the future and gloat.

Wasn't Knox a pre-season stud his rook year?
Title: Neagtive Nancies Vs. Pom Pom Gurls--The Epic Battles
Post by: chipstern on December 18, 2020, 10:11:05 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 18, 2020, 09:50:54 AM
Berman's rather preposterous.  or click-baiting.

One good quarter of one pre-season game against 5 Cavs who haven't played int he NBA.  Just a tad early to see the future and gloat.

Wasn't Knox a pre-season stud his rook year?

Yes, berman is an ambulance chaser. 

Still, Gimme a break, Negative Nancy.  That does not diminish clear progress on KK's part.  But we coulda had BB.

Our Pups against their Pups.  And their Pups were lighting us up in the 3rd if you'd had the opportunity to watch. 

But yes, Knox sucks, we coulda drafted a 3&D or signed Bogdon, oh, and Okoro has no shot and we shouldn't draft him.

Lack of hope springs eternal.

PS: Christian Wood with a big game for Houston.  Looking really fucking good...Impressive...Nice Fit.  Time to fire up the Old WOULDACOULDASHOULDA Machine and explain again how flawed and overrated Obi is.   
Title: By The Way
Post by: chipstern on December 18, 2020, 10:30:40 AM
Why would Philly trade Ben Simmons? 

Why would Miami sunder their chemistry and offload excellent youngYoungYOUNG talents on the upswing to bring on an egomaniacal talent, no matter how gifted, who couldn't abide a player who epitomizes winning, competitive culture like Chris Paul.  Give up Duncan Robinson and/or Tyler Herro?

Seriously. 

Harden is perhaps the preeminent offensive force in the modern game, and he showed in the bubble that he is a fine facilitator and defensive player when so motivated.

But the idea that winning cultures such as Miami and Milwaukee, let alone teams on the upswing like Philly and Brooklyn would gut their teams and sunder their cultures to accomodate this martinet. 

Harden has poisoned the trade waters irreperably. 

He might want to take a deep fucking breath and take a long look at the likes of Christian Wood, John Wall and DeMarcus Couins, let alone returning warriors such as Eric Gordon and PJ Tucker.  They have the makings of a very competitive, contending team in the West.  Be a TEAM MATE, Mate. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 18, 2020, 10:38:20 AM
I've been counseling patience with Knox.
But he does need to show improvement this year.

Pre-season is a very unreliable predictor of NBA success.
1Q v. 5 Cavs nobody ever heard of.
Absolutely absurd to declare Quickly has made the draft look silly.

And I gave Okoro some props for his offense.  I suspected when he was moving up draft boards (along with Williams) that his O was looking solid enough in workouts. 

Cavs bench = 5 Undrafteds and a #26 pick who missed his rook year
Dean Wade - undrafted.  60 NBA minutes last year.
Lamar Stevens - undrafted rook, 2-way contract
Matt Mooney - 20 NBA minutes last year
Dylan Windler #26 pick - missed all last year. Rook
Marques Bolden - undrafted, should have returned to Duke for his Sr year.
Levi Randolph - undrafted, Age 28.  Geleaugered.

v.

Knicks Bench -- Five 1st round picks:
Topping, Knox, Smith = 3 Top 9 picks. 
The latter two with 2 and 3 year NBA experience.
Spellman a #30 pick with 2 NBA years, inc. 14 starts
Quickly a #25 rook.

It was rather embarrassing what the Cavs courted and the young Knix bench took advantage.  Dennis Smith Jr morphing into Gary Payton might have been a clue as to what was going down.  Those 5 Knix would win a championship if they got to play the Canton Charge every night ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 18, 2020, 11:02:38 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 18, 2020, 09:50:54 AM
Berman's rather preposterous.  or click-baiting.

One good quarter of one pre-season game against 5 Cavs who haven't played int he NBA.  Just a tad early to see the future and gloat.

Wasn't Knox a pre-season stud his rook year?

Wouldnt expect you to be positive

Articles arent click bait - they are actually in the newspaper
Title: Re: By The Way
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 18, 2020, 11:06:25 AM
Quote from: chipstern on December 18, 2020, 10:30:40 AM
Why would Philly trade Ben Simmons? 

Why would Miami sunder their chemistry and offload excellent youngYoungYOUNG talents on the upswing to bring on an egomaniacal talent, no matter how gifted, who couldn't abide a player who epitomizes winning, competitive culture like Chris Paul.  Give up Duncan Robinson and/or Tyler Herro?

Seriously. 

Harden is perhaps the preeminent offensive force in the modern game, and he showed in the bubble that he is a fine facilitator and defensive player when so motivated.

But the idea that winning cultures such as Miami and Milwaukee, let alone teams on the upswing like Philly and Brooklyn would gut their teams and sunder their cultures to accomodate this martinet. 

Harden has poisoned the trade waters irreperably. 

He might want to take a deep fucking breath and take a long look at the likes of Christian Wood, John Wall and DeMarcus Couins, let alone returning warriors such as Eric Gordon and PJ Tucker.  They have the makings of a very competitive, contending team in the West.  Be a TEAM MATE, Mate.

Who is HOU supposed to ask for in a Harden deal?  Keep in mind - PHI, BKN and MIA were chosen by James, not the Rockets
Title: Superstar Free Agent Options in 2021
Post by: chipstern on December 18, 2020, 11:47:08 AM
Seriously?

[Age when pre-season 2021 rolls around]

Kawhi Leonard, 30 [Tell me about the rabbits George]

Jrue Holiday, 31 [Yes, let me leave Giannis and a fat contract re-up to come to NY, only ten years after Donnie Douche Bag failed to draft me]

Dennis Schroder, 28 [Yes, let me leave LeBron and AD in my prime to come to NY]

Rudy Gobert, 29 [So, we're going to max out Mitchell's doppleganger and give up on Mitchell and what he might yet become?]

Victor Oladipo, 29 [So, we're giving up on RJ to max out someone coming off a damn serious injury?]

Chris Paul, 36 [What is the over-under on CP3 opting out of the final $45 million year of his contract in 2021?]

Blake Griffin, 32 [Perhaps we could trade Obi, giver Blake Julius' money and pair Blake's knees with Amare's?]

DeMar DeRozan, 32 [Still has considerable gas left in the tank, but are we going to overpay for a lousy 3 point shooter whose presence undercuts RJ?]

Kyle Lowry, 35 [Forget about his age...well, don't, but why would he leave what is plainly HIS TEAM?]

Mike Conley, 34 [Hmmm...would he accept Elfrid Payton money? Do we really want to undercut Immanuel so quickly?]

Andre Drummond, 28 [Pretty awful FT shooter, but appears to be in great shape and have considerable game left in his tank.  HE WILL EXPECT BIG FUCKING MONEY]

Lou Williams, 35 [Love Sweet Lou, but kinda late in the game]

TJ Warren, 28 [Well NOW, wouldn't that be ducky?]

PJ Tucker, 36 [Trevor Ariza 3.1?]

Tim Hardaway Jr, 29 [Thrice the charm?]

Kent Bazemore, 32

Will Barton, 30

Kelly Oubre, 25 [Hmmmm]

Marquese Chriss, 24

Alex Caruso, 27 [Even as a late bloomer, would the Lakers let him walk?]

Avery Bradley, 30 [Love him, but I would think that Miami is HOME]

Bobby Portis, 26 [I like Bobby, but file this under been there done that]

Enes Kanter, 29 [I like Bobby, but file this under been there done that]

Harry Giles, 23 [We shall see...something there]

Jabari Parker, 26 [What might've been...walking wounded]

Hassan Whiteside, 32 [We passed on him this year for the younger Noels]

Rudy Gay, 35 [Nice player, in the autum of an injury riddled career]

Joe Ingles, 34 [Drop dead shooter, getting on in years...if the price was right?]

Ish Smith, 32 [A pro's pro, but we are purportedly grooming Jared Harper, a younger version of the pocket point]







Am I being unduly negative? 

None of these seem either realistic nor tenable. 

Obviously I dig Kawhi and Jrue and Dennis, but they seem to have found a home. 

2022?

Steph Curry [Chuckle]

James Harden [CHUCKLE, Player Option]

John Wall, 32 [Player option]

Bradley Beal, 29 [$37 Million Player option...dream on]

Jusuf Nurkić, 28 [Why would he leave Portland?]

Marcus Smart, 28 [Would but that it were so]

Terry Rozier, 27

Aaron Gordon, 27

Ricky Rubio, 32 [Hmmmm...though I suspect Minny is home]

Depite Thibs' Prayer For A Needle Mover, Not Seeing Free Agency as the ticket for Leon Rose. 

The draft, trades....

Perhaps if Houston continues to shop Harden, a third or fourth team might be needed that has cap space.  Doubtful, but one never know, do one? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 18, 2020, 11:48:17 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 18, 2020, 11:02:38 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 18, 2020, 09:50:54 AM
Berman's rather preposterous.  or click-baiting.

One good quarter of one pre-season game against 5 Cavs who haven't played int he NBA.  Just a tad early to see the future and gloat.

Wasn't Knox a pre-season stud his rook year?

Wouldnt expect you to be positive

Articles arent click bait - they are actually in the newspaper

That does not lend them any more credence. 
Title: Re: By The Way
Post by: chipstern on December 18, 2020, 11:49:58 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 18, 2020, 11:06:25 AM
Quote from: chipstern on December 18, 2020, 10:30:40 AM
Why would Philly trade Ben Simmons? 

Why would Miami sunder their chemistry and offload excellent youngYoungYOUNG talents on the upswing to bring on an egomaniacal talent, no matter how gifted, who couldn't abide a player who epitomizes winning, competitive culture like Chris Paul.  Give up Duncan Robinson and/or Tyler Herro?

Seriously. 

Harden is perhaps the preeminent offensive force in the modern game, and he showed in the bubble that he is a fine facilitator and defensive player when so motivated.

But the idea that winning cultures such as Miami and Milwaukee, let alone teams on the upswing like Philly and Brooklyn would gut their teams and sunder their cultures to accomodate this martinet. 

Harden has poisoned the trade waters irreperably. 

He might want to take a deep fucking breath and take a long look at the likes of Christian Wood, John Wall and DeMarcus Couins, let alone returning warriors such as Eric Gordon and PJ Tucker.  They have the makings of a very competitive, contending team in the West.  Be a TEAM MATE, Mate.

Who is HOU supposed to ask for in a Harden deal?  Keep in mind - PHI, BKN and MIA were chosen by James, not the Rockets

Right now the only team that really had the resources to indulge Houston's lust for draft picks is....

Surprise.

The OKC Thunder.

I suspect that is not Harden's ultimate destination. 

Not OKC's. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 18, 2020, 12:06:06 PM
Good list Chip thanks

I think some of the "why would they leave?" questions might be answered with dollar signs.  We will see.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 18, 2020, 12:08:10 PM
Knicks have the picks for Harden.  Let's build a hypothetical

Barrett (not saying I do it), Randle, 2 number 1s, but not our own '21.

What else?
Title: Pass....
Post by: chipstern on December 18, 2020, 12:43:59 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 18, 2020, 12:08:10 PM
Knicks have the picks for Harden.  Let's build a hypothetical

Barrett (not saying I do it), Randle, 2 number 1s, but not our own '21.

What else?

Five Pom Pom Gurls, Four Negative Nancies, Three Turtle Doves, Two French Hens, And A Partridge [Family] In A Pear Tree....

Last time we went all in on a shiny object, well, it didn't work out very well. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 18, 2020, 12:52:29 PM
I'm certain the Knix will trade for Harden...


In 3 or 4 years and likely after he's had an injury or nervous breakdown to boot.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 18, 2020, 01:00:17 PM
By the way Chip - just looking at the other side of it - and certainly respecting the building (on the rise) teams in the East that you mention in asking why they want JH -

Who won last year?  One of the West risers from previous seasons or a West team that went out and grabbed their roster piece by piece after a number of quite uncertain years?

(Didnt Lakers leapfrog the builders by adding a stud+?  And give up fine young talent in the process?)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 18, 2020, 01:01:54 PM
Said another way - isnt Ben Simmons akin to Brandon Ingram?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 18, 2020, 01:12:35 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 18, 2020, 01:01:54 PM
Said another way - isnt Ben Simmons akin to Brandon Ingram?

NO. 

Lakers gave up a significant package. 

But they were getting back ANTHONY DAVIS. 

I am not dismissing JAMES HARDEN by any stretch of the imagination. 

But I do not see him as being as impactful a culture changer as AD. 

Least ways, Lakers still had somevery good assets, and played the free agent market creatively to assemble a competitive squad around LeBron and AD. 

Simmons?  Ingraham? 

Your guess is as good as mine. 

But if I am Morey, I do not gut the team and shred chemistry to make a Hershel Walker Trade. 

Was Melo the premier player in the Knicks-Nuggets Trade?

By all means. 

Did we gut our team to make the deal?

Sure did, and Melo was surrounded by the ghost or Amare and Billups, and little fucking else. 

Oh, and the second #1 Denver extorted from us?  Which allowed them to swamp first rounders?

Jamal Murray.

How's that working for us? 

Turtle V. Hare?

I opt for the turtle. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 18, 2020, 01:13:55 PM
Five Pom Pom Gurls, Four Negative Nancies, Three Turtle Doves, Two French Hens, And A Partridge [Family] In A Pear Tree....


In the spirit of Christmas....

Three french hens and two turtle doves.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 18, 2020, 01:14:59 PM
Last time we went all in on a shiny object, well, it didn't work out very well.


Well, you have to complete the puzzle
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jerrya on December 18, 2020, 01:33:09 PM
Quickley is becoming one of my favorite Knicks!  Should be the starting PG soon. The difference between him and the shit we have is he can shoot— that’s Important

He can shoot, he can dribble, he has good court vision and is aggressive.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 18, 2020, 01:50:36 PM
Oh, and the second #1 Denver extorted from us?  Which allowed them to swamp first rounders?

Jamal Murray.

How's that working for us?

Turtle V. Hare?

I opt for the turtle.

You suspect we would have drafted Jamal?

heh

Take a look at the post Carmelo deals made by NYK.  My point again being you have to continue with the build.  (bear in mind I didnt like/want the Melo deal, preferred to wait, though seeing him with Nets would have been painful)

By the way - in the deal where we lose the Murray pick - we added the #9, which had we kept it could have been Sabonis - as long as you like hypoteheticals.

(That pick was dealt for Andrea Bargnani)

But anyway - deals after acquiring Melo included

- drafting forum fave Iman Shumpert (over NY's own Tobias Harris)
- dealing for Ty Chandler
- replacing an old Billups with names such as Bibby, B Davis and J Lin
- clamping on to JR Smith for dear life
- adding Kidd
- trading for Camby, Felton and K Thomas (contracts rather than cap room)
- Q Richardson, R Wallace, K Martin - vets, vets, more (do they mesh?) vets
- *draft T Hardaway Jr (some hope)
- re-sign JR
- re-sgn Prigioni
- sign - ahem - Ron Artest
- re-sign Kenyon Martin (come on!)
- Deal for Barnani (inc pick that  would be Sabonis and of course our dear Marcus Camby)

Can I stop and ask now - what the fuck were we doing post Melo deal?  You really want to blame it on the one deal in that time that kind of made any sense?

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 18, 2020, 01:52:24 PM
At least all that shit got us the chance at PHIL JACKSON, which we of course then handled dreadfully
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 18, 2020, 01:53:43 PM
Quote from: Jerrya on December 18, 2020, 01:33:09 PM
Quickley is becoming one of my favorite Knicks!  Should be the starting PG soon. The difference between him and the shit we have is he can shoot— that’s Important

He can shoot, he can dribble, he has good court vision and is aggressive.

Poise
Calm
ONIONS!

Can IQ run it?  Not sure.  But this is why the one year deal to Payton was wise.  Ig he can, there isnt an extra deal kicking around.

(expect Payton to be among the Feb or pre Feb deals as long as we arent - cough - contending)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 18, 2020, 01:58:13 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 18, 2020, 12:52:29 PM
I'm certain the Knix will trade for Harden...


In 3 or 4 years and likely after he's had an injury or nervous breakdown to boot.

Cute

But the issue is NOW

Thibs be thinking - mannnnn,,, this is strange - not having a star.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 18, 2020, 02:02:25 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 18, 2020, 01:52:24 PM
At least all that shit got us the chance at PHIL JACKSON, which we of course then handled dreadfully

Oh brother. 

Phil Jackson was a piece of shit. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on December 18, 2020, 02:05:14 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 18, 2020, 12:08:10 PM
Knicks have the picks for Harden.  Let's build a hypothetical

Barrett (not saying I do it), Randle, 2 number 1s, but not our own '21.

What else?

Barrett, Mitch, the Dallas picks
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 18, 2020, 03:05:42 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on December 18, 2020, 02:05:14 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 18, 2020, 12:08:10 PM
Knicks have the picks for Harden.  Let's build a hypothetical

Barrett (not saying I do it), Randle, 2 number 1s, but not our own '21.

What else?

Barrett, Mitch, the Dallas picks

Numbers don't work without Randle. 
Title: Roster Projection
Post by: chipstern on December 18, 2020, 03:24:00 PM
A prediction?

More like a projection...a personal projection.  Possible?  Vaguely Likely. 

I believe Kidd-Gilchrist is gone.  Was only signed to an Exhibit 10. 

I think the Knicks are invested in Zaftig Spellman as someone they would like to develop.  Likewise Brazdeikis.  Both on roster guaranteed contracts. 

Think Knicks swap out Myles Powell for Theo Pinson, giving Powell the two way joining Harper in G League, and Piston an Exhibit 10, likewise in Westchester. 

Wonder if we might see Spellman, Iggy, Powell, Harper tonight. 

Not sure what Knicks' thinking is.  I think Piston is a fave of Rose's as a person, and this was a way of tossing him a dime. 

Knicks need shooters.  Spellman and Iggy are shooters. 

Kidd a defensive 3.  So is Bullock and he can shoot....now and then. 

PS: Kenny Wooten?  Waived by Houston.  Taj Gibson...Alonzo Trier?  Crickets. 
Title: What Does THIS Mean?
Post by: chipstern on December 18, 2020, 03:33:22 PM
No sure if we should read ANYTHING at all into this, but....

Knicks made IGGY available to the press today. 

Go figure. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 18, 2020, 08:41:55 PM
Huge cup of salt.

Coaching matters.

The level of play to get on the floor on this team suddenly seems higher that was previously understood.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Pharoah on December 18, 2020, 08:47:44 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 18, 2020, 08:41:55 PM
Huge cup of salt.

Coaching matters.

The level of play to get on the floor on this team suddenly seems higher that was previously understood.
Hi Guys....

I gotta say this now. Thibs gotta be mad careful. Robinson playing his life out and for the 1st time playing smart.

Quickley playing like the clear cut best PG we've had in YEARS.

OB effecting the game without even having to score that much.

Knox playing through his mistakes and showing he can be a knockdown shooter if he is given some rope.

RJ playing like a burgeoning young star wing.

Thibs HAS to reward these kids. If he goes back to vet privilege it can ruin all good vibes and demoralize the young troops.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on December 18, 2020, 08:50:22 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 18, 2020, 03:05:42 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on December 18, 2020, 02:05:14 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 18, 2020, 12:08:10 PM
Knicks have the picks for Harden.  Let's build a hypothetical

Barrett (not saying I do it), Randle, 2 number 1s, but not our own '21.

What else?

Barrett, Mitch, the Dallas picks

Numbers don't work without Randle.

Oh, alright then... Randle
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 18, 2020, 09:14:36 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on December 18, 2020, 08:50:22 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 18, 2020, 03:05:42 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on December 18, 2020, 02:05:14 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 18, 2020, 12:08:10 PM
Knicks have the picks for Harden.  Let's build a hypothetical

Barrett (not saying I do it), Randle, 2 number 1s, but not our own '21.

What else?

Barrett, Mitch, the Dallas picks

Numbers don't work without Randle.

Oh, alright then... Randle

Hell to the No.
Title: Quicks
Post by: Kam on December 18, 2020, 09:15:00 PM
Looks like we found our PG.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 18, 2020, 09:18:06 PM
Quote from: Pharoah on December 18, 2020, 08:47:44 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 18, 2020, 08:41:55 PM
Huge cup of salt.

Coaching matters.

The level of play to get on the floor on this team suddenly seems higher that was previously understood.
Hi Guys....

I gotta say this now. Thibs gotta be mad careful. Robinson playing his life out and for the 1st time playing smart.

Quickley playing like the clear cut best PG we've had in YEARS.

OB effecting the game without even having to score that much.

Knox playing through his mistakes and showing he can be a knockdown shooter if he is given some rope.

RJ playing like a burgeoning young star wing.

Thibs HAS to reward these kids. If he goes back to vet privilege it can ruin all good vibes and demoralize the young troops.

Agreed Pharoah.   These kids (really Immanuel mostly but others as well) have shown they belong.

I think Quicks has grabbed the starting point guard position and it's his to lose.

RJ will start.

Mitch should start also, but with his foul woes who knows how long he will play with the starters.

The other kids still need to keep making the case for playing time but the arrow is pointing up on Knox.

Toppin hasn't proven he is a starter but there's time.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 18, 2020, 10:05:54 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on December 18, 2020, 08:50:22 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 18, 2020, 03:05:42 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on December 18, 2020, 02:05:14 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 18, 2020, 12:08:10 PM
Knicks have the picks for Harden.  Let's build a hypothetical

Barrett (not saying I do it), Randle, 2 number 1s, but not our own '21.

What else?

Fuck this trade. 

Barrett, Mitch, the Dallas picks

Numbers don't work without Randle.

Oh, alright then... Randle
Title: Guess WHJAT: I'm In Tears
Post by: chipstern on December 18, 2020, 10:10:22 PM
High

I

Q

(https://therookiewire.usatoday.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2020/12/USATSI_15312503.jpg?w=1000&h=600&crop=1)
Title: Yes Siree
Post by: chipstern on December 18, 2020, 10:11:55 PM
Sure Does Make A Difference To Have A Point Guard

And Now For Some Postcards
Title: Harden, Who the F wants to see that fat, anti-basketball choker in a Knick uni
Post by: lesterluv on December 18, 2020, 10:12:47 PM
so littledawg was in town and sitting down at the TV with me to watch

I told him, the first section will be really tough to watch, but once we get through Payton/Randle hour it gets good.

Then I saw Quickley was going to start..... mmm mmm good.

So good it was.

*** lol, I like Randle when he's not the focal point of the offense and playing like ass,

**** this Thibs guy can coach a bit

*** Disclaimer: littledawg, who mainly watches soccer asked "is this Cavs team the worst team in basketball by any chance?" I had to answer "yep"

Title: BoD
Post by: chipstern on December 18, 2020, 10:19:59 PM
Kevin Knox [21 years old]

20 in 24 minutes

6-7 from three. 

And that Ladies And Negative Nancies, is why we didn't give Bogdon Bogdonavich [28 years old] $72 Million X 4 Years. 

And possibly why we took OT over AD
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 18, 2020, 10:21:08 PM
First off, the FO gained a bunch of benefit of the doubt in their account since EGT gave us a look at the developmental kids. There’s a lot there to develop.

I think Mitch, RJ, and Quickley have made the best case to start out of the kids so far. By this I mean if they just keep doing what they’re doing I’m going to be happy with the results. I’d put them out there at this point with Randle and one of Bullock or Burks. My reasoning is that while Obi and Kevin are both exceptional already in a number of ways, but they have clear areas of their games they need to build and polish till you can call either a well rounded professional player. Until they make a bit more progress on that, I’d keep starting back till they make a few more steps and consistently lift the team when they check in as reserves.

Randle is developmentally on par with RJ, Quickley, Mitch, and Kevin in that some small tweaks to his game will make him a constant force and a smooth operator. My number 1 thing for him now is that he never have his hands by his sides when he has a foot in the paint on defense. A possession or two of that should get Toppin into the game ahead of schedule.

Now we’ve got Hanukkah out of the way, a hard earned celebration of successful resistance, I’m ready for some meaningful basketball.
Title: Re: Harden, Who the F wants to see that fat, anti-basketball choker in a Knick uni
Post by: chipstern on December 18, 2020, 10:21:52 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on December 18, 2020, 10:12:47 PM
so littledawg was in town and sitting down at the TV with me to watch

I told him, the first section will be really tough to watch, but once we get through Payton/Randle hour it gets good.

Then I saw Quickley was going to start..... mmm mmm good.

So good it was.

*** lol, I like Randle when he's not the focal point of the offense and playing like ass,

**** this Thibs guy can coach a bit

*** Disclaimer: littledawg, who mainly watches soccer asked "is this Cavs team the worst team in basketball by any chance?" I had to answer "yep"

Dear DIPSTICK

Julius Randle had....8 [EIGHT] Assists.

Eat Me. 
Title: Kiid Speaks
Post by: chipstern on December 18, 2020, 10:24:09 PM
"For God's sake, you've got to get over this Jared Harper thing...enough already."

From your mouth to God's ear. 
Title: Re: Harden, Who the F wants to see that fat, anti-basketball choker in a Knick uni
Post by: facilitatorn on December 18, 2020, 10:24:57 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 18, 2020, 10:21:52 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on December 18, 2020, 10:12:47 PM
so littledawg was in town and sitting down at the TV with me to watch

I told him, the first section will be really tough to watch, but once we get through Payton/Randle hour it gets good.

Then I saw Quickley was going to start..... mmm mmm good.

So good it was.

*** lol, I like Randle when he's not the focal point of the offense and playing like ass,

**** this Thibs guy can coach a bit

*** Disclaimer: littledawg, who mainly watches soccer asked "is this Cavs team the worst team in basketball by any chance?" I had to answer "yep"

Dear DIPSTICK

Julius Randle had....8 [EIGHT] Assists.

Eat Me.

Hey Chip, how was his plus-minus tonight? Did you happen to see?

He still needs to get his hands up on defense.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 18, 2020, 10:25:49 PM
That what I'm saying Chip
made good passes
and set screens
and rebounded
and pretty much D'd

NOT THE DUMP HIM THE BALL AND HANG AROUND FOCAL POINT OF THE OFFENSE
NOT THE WATCH HIM GO END TO END AND GET HIS SHIT STOLEN FOCAL POINT OF THE OFFENSE


For the first time as a Knick he wasn't playing like ASS

I LIKE HIM THIS WAY
Thibs got in his mf ear and he listened and executed, I like it

*** still lmfao at dipshit IQ50kidds's he has "nowhere he needs to grow" post, but then, I lmfao at just about every dipshit IQ50kidd post
Title: Re: Kiid Speaks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 18, 2020, 10:26:10 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 18, 2020, 10:24:09 PM
"For God's sake, you've got to get over this Jared Harper thing...enough already."

From your mouth to God's ear.

Spugsy Wogues, just needs some polishing.
Title: FWK
Post by: chipstern on December 18, 2020, 10:29:35 PM
"Hey, let's trade Barrett and Mitchell."

Oy Vey.  Easy on the Metracal

Ands be careful what you wish for, unless you are on Porn Hub

RJ...15-5-2-3 and made ALL FIVE OF HIS FREE THROWS. 

Mitchell 12 rebounds and 4 blocks with ZERO fouls and ZERO turnovers. 

Like DUH. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 18, 2020, 10:30:59 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on December 18, 2020, 10:25:49 PM
That what I'm saying Chip
made good passes
and set screens
and rebounded
and pretty much D'd

NOT THE DUMP HIM THE BALL AND HANG AROUND FOCAL POINT OF THE OFFENSE
NOT THE WATCH HIM GO END TO END AND GET HIS SHIT STOLEN FOCAL POINT OF THE OFFENSE


For the first time as a Knick he wasn't playing like ASS

I LIKE HIM THIS WAY


*** still lmfao at dipshit IQ50kidds's he has "nowhere he needs to grow" post, but then, I lmfao at just about every dipshit IQ50kidd post

Like Dinah Washington sang

WHAT A DIFFERENCE A DAY Point Guard MAKES...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 18, 2020, 10:32:51 PM
yeah PG makes a difference, I'm loving our #25 pick, but it ain't just that

Quickley could get him the ball and he could sit on it for 14 seconds until three guys are on him and then lose the ball like he used to
But he didn't

He swung it

That's coach

That's things coming together as everybody grows
Title: Re: Kiid Speaks
Post by: chipstern on December 18, 2020, 10:34:41 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 18, 2020, 10:26:10 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 18, 2020, 10:24:09 PM
"For God's sake, you've got to get over this Jared Harper thing...enough already."

From your mouth to God's ear.

Spugsy Wogues, just needs some polishing.

5'11"

?

Seems closer to Spud Webb, 5'9", 5'10"...

The 2-4 from trey had me screaming, but he made some nice passes and a couple of terrific defensive stops, and as I recall, got one pretty good offensive foul call. 

He'll get polishing in Westchester.  But there is something there for sure.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 18, 2020, 10:36:10 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on December 18, 2020, 10:32:51 PM
yeah PG makes a difference, I'm loving our #25 pick, but it ain't just that

Quickley could get him the ball and he could sit on it for 14 seconds like he used to
But he didn't

He swung it

That's coach

That's things coming together as everybody grows

That DumbAss, ball sticks to your hands, dribble into a triple team was at the behest of JizzDale
Title: Re: Harden, Who the F wants to see that fat, anti-basketball choker in a Knick uni
Post by: chipstern on December 18, 2020, 10:39:31 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 18, 2020, 10:24:57 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 18, 2020, 10:21:52 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on December 18, 2020, 10:12:47 PM
so littledawg was in town and sitting down at the TV with me to watch

I told him, the first section will be really tough to watch, but once we get through Payton/Randle hour it gets good.

Then I saw Quickley was going to start..... mmm mmm good.

So good it was.

*** lol, I like Randle when he's not the focal point of the offense and playing like ass,

**** this Thibs guy can coach a bit

*** Disclaimer: littledawg, who mainly watches soccer asked "is this Cavs team the worst team in basketball by any chance?" I had to answer "yep"

Dear DIPSTICK

Julius Randle had....8 [EIGHT] Assists.

Eat Me.

Hey Chip, how was his plus-minus tonight? Did you happen to see?

He still needs to get his hands up on defense.

+43 on 11-3-8-1 2 Turnovers in 24 minutes. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 18, 2020, 10:44:29 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 18, 2020, 10:36:10 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on December 18, 2020, 10:32:51 PM
yeah PG makes a difference, I'm loving our #25 pick, but it ain't just that

Quickley could get him the ball and he could sit on it for 14 seconds like he used to
But he didn't

He swung it

That's coach

That's things coming together as everybody grows

That DumbAss, ball sticks to your hands, dribble into a triple team was at the behest of JizzDale

Lol, well it took a few games, and some preliminary work by miller, but I think JizzWhale's nefarious influence on several of our young players is close to being exorcised.


**** who the f' could ever have thought that free reign to run wild with a used car salesman idiot was a good way for young players to "develop"
Title: High I Q
Post by: chipstern on December 18, 2020, 10:52:16 PM
(https://www.nkytribune.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KT_Quickley-vs.-Gators-2.22.20.jpg)

29  minutes   

7-12   FGs

3-5 Trey

5-7 FTs   

5 assists

5  Steals   

+41   

22 points

And a funny thing happened when he was on the floor. 

Julius was focused and had 8 assists. 

Bullock started making his shots

18 minutes   6-7 FGs   3-4 treys   2-3 FTs   5 boards   +20    17 points

Knox getting shots in his spots, in rhythm and started knocking down everything. 

We are going to take our lumps, and our opening schedule is pretty rough, starting next Wenesday with Indiana. 

But THIBS has got everyone's attention. No Doubt About It. 

And has engendered some ferocious competition. 

Immuanul Quickley is a HIGH IQ motherfucker.  Great spirit.  Exudes joy and confidence.  FEARLESS.  And my God, CAN HE EVER SHOOT. 

I cannot remember the last time we had someone with his combination of court vision and pace who gets everyone the ball where they can do the most damage. 

AND HAS TO BE Guarded
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 18, 2020, 10:57:49 PM
Quote from: Pharoah on December 18, 2020, 08:47:44 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 18, 2020, 08:41:55 PM
Huge cup of salt.

Coaching matters.

The level of play to get on the floor on this team suddenly seems higher that was previously understood.
Hi Guys....

I gotta say this now. Thibs gotta be mad careful. Robinson playing his life out and for the 1st time playing smart.

Quickley playing like the clear cut best PG we've had in YEARS.

OB effecting the game without even having to score that much.

Knox playing through his mistakes and showing he can be a knockdown shooter if he is given some rope.

RJ playing like a burgeoning young star wing.

Thibs HAS to reward these kids. If he goes back to vet privilege it can ruin all good vibes and demoralize the young troops.

WELCOME BACK, Pharoah. 

I get the impression he wants to engage EVERYONE, give NO ONE a comfort zone, engender COMPETITION, and RAISE THE BAR...Be A Great Practice Team. 

In the post game he made it clear that everyone will get a shot and need to be ready, and just because you may not be in the rotation now, doesn't mean your shot won't come up.

I don't think he's about privilege.  But I do think he is not goping to give anyone a comfort zone. 

COMPETE.

Or take a seat. 

Talent will out in the end. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 18, 2020, 10:58:46 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 18, 2020, 08:41:55 PM
Huge cup of salt.

Coaching matters.

The level of play to get on the floor on this team suddenly seems higher that was previously understood.

Exactly
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on December 18, 2020, 11:46:25 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 18, 2020, 10:58:46 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 18, 2020, 08:41:55 PM
Huge cup of salt.

Coaching matters.

The level of play to get on the floor on this team suddenly seems higher that was previously understood.

Exactly

Indubitably!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on December 18, 2020, 11:53:36 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 18, 2020, 10:05:54 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on December 18, 2020, 08:50:22 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 18, 2020, 03:05:42 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on December 18, 2020, 02:05:14 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 18, 2020, 12:08:10 PM
Knicks have the picks for Harden.  Let's build a hypothetical

Barrett (not saying I do it), Randle, 2 number 1s, but not our own '21.

What else?

Fuck this trade. 

Barrett, Mitch, the Dallas picks

Numbers don't work without Randle.

Oh, alright then... Randle

Hey! Hey!

You want a Hardon in the Gardon you gotta pay the mon.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 19, 2020, 12:05:44 AM
It's going to be helpful to have a team stocked with deep bench guys who can play, as likely during the season some teammates are gonna test + for CV.

Be interesting to see when the NBA gets inoculated.  Were only talking 50-100 people per team (50 the traveling core; maybe 100 the extended circle).
So maybe 1,500 - 3,000 people = 3000 - 6000 doses.
Can argue they are high risk since they will be traveling a lot.
And certainly the NBA is high profile.
So maybe team vaccination can be folded into community service message to encourage the public to get needled.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 19, 2020, 12:15:50 AM
Doomsday Bo

The NBA just had ONE positive test in 542.

But yes, rather than enjoy the start of the season we will be thinking our guys could get infected

Freak.
Title: What else is new?
Post by: carlos123 on December 19, 2020, 12:23:53 AM
Quote from: Chamacocartero on December 19, 2020, 12:15:50 AM
Doomsday Bo

The NBA just had ONE positive test in 542.

But yes, rather than enjoy the start of the season we will be thinking our guys could get infected

Freak.

Chamaco thinks Covid-19 is a hoax.
What else is new?
That being said, I’m not in favor of prioritizing young healthy athletes. They may be high profile, but certainly not essential workers.
Title: Hey Bank
Post by: carlos123 on December 19, 2020, 12:29:13 AM
What happened to your team?
I was watching the knicks, so didn’t see the game.
But apparently the Celts were thoroughly outplayed by the Nyets, in Boston!
Maybe Steve Nash knows how to coach?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 19, 2020, 12:41:05 AM
NBA reported 1 new case but on December 2nd had reported 48 cases.  I seriously doubt that this will be the last new case of Covid this season.

Plus there were cases last season during the break in the schedule.  I'm guessing somewhere around 75+ NBA players have at one time been positive for Covid. 

Depending on how long immunity lasts for the infected the NBA population, and the number of new infections we could see, the NBA might reach a herd immunity before the players get the vaccine.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 19, 2020, 12:48:05 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 19, 2020, 12:15:50 AM
Doomsday Bo

The NBA just had ONE positive test in 542.

But yes, rather than enjoy the start of the season we will be thinking our guys could get infected

Freak.

Just because they are so so so much better than any football or baseball operation doesn’t mean there isn’t still a lot of risk. They should wait until the grocery workers, meat packers, pickers, warehouse and delivery people, teachers, and social workers all get their shots. It will still be nice to see the league vaccinated once that has occurred.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 19, 2020, 03:43:12 AM
I'm sure teams are factoring in CV to their season preparations.
It would be foolish not to.

For a team going nowhere such as the Knix, it probably matters less.  But for a playoff team, I'd certainly consider having a vet or two as 3rd string as opposed to a development yute.

Players and support staff have family, friends, hookups, etc. and some are going to get the virus.  Being young and fit, payers are highly likely to be asymptomatic, meaning they can pass it on to teammates fairly easily.

Gotta be prepared.
Who expected the NFL Broncos to have all 3 of their QB's Covid disqualified one week?  Ish happens.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 19, 2020, 06:13:17 AM
If IQ proves out and becomes our starting PG, why on earth would you want to move Elf?  Be smart to have a vet who can step in behind a rook PG.  And that's really Elf's role, a quality backup PG who can spot start.

If Quick/Elf were a solid PG tandem, that'd be a great building block.  Why mess with it?   I'd be awfully surprised if we find ourselves with both Quicks and Jr. Smith playing good PG ball. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 19, 2020, 06:35:15 AM
I really think the draft selections have gone our way the past 4 drafts.
There's been a lot of talent on the board when we've picked:

2017 #8 pick: Frank  -- next 6 players, Smith Jr, Zach Collins, Malik Monk, Kennard, Donovan, Bam.  2 all-stars and I'm pretty high on Zach

2018 #9 pick -- Knix had a choice of Knox, Bridges, Bridges, Porter or Shai

2019 - maybe our worst luck, drafting 3rd in a weak 2-man class.
But you really can't complain having the #3 pick.
RJB has potential and looks like he can become a solid starter, but the year before the #3 pick gets you Doncic; year before that nabs Tatum -- franchise level all-stars.  This year it was LaMelo who has that potential.

2020 - #8 pick.
Available: Toppings, Avdija, Ty Halibut; Vassal, Kira Lewis

And with our lower 1st rounder, we had the pickings of:
Quickly, Malachi, Terry, Maledon

We've had good talent to choose from.
Took a risk the first two years, went safe the last two.
If Knox can prove out and Topdog and RJB are solid, then we'll have done fairly well.  Never can get it perfect. 

But the Franc pick looks like our biggest blunder.  A non-shooting G who can't play Point = a non-shooting shooting guard.  And yes Franc is getting better at locating the rim, but he looks like a limited backup/rotation feller.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 19, 2020, 09:40:50 AM
If the reports have been true about Ntlikina having trade value let's hope we didn't miss that opportunity as all his minutes fizzle.

Knox on the other hand looking now to have been a good hold back though he may still be a seesaw with his shot and still have playing time issues within a crowded Knicks wing group.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 19, 2020, 09:44:52 AM
Good post re: recent picks

If Knox remains and Obi fires we could almost forgive the Frank draft

But really we shouldn't be conjoining different mgt groups in discussion.

Could we, given KP's headcasedness, revisit that draft as well, especially as he continues to miss court time?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 19, 2020, 09:46:43 AM
So, assuming Rivers will not play, what do we see as minutes distribution for Wednesday vs Indiana?  Can Noel be any help vs our usual nemesis Sabonis?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 19, 2020, 09:49:05 AM
Isola this morning speaking of the dwindling 2021 class

Olafipo, , maybe Dinwiddie and Lowry.  Reddick.  Danny Green

Names OKC and San Antonio as the others with huge cap space.
Title: Re: Hey Bank
Post by: bankshot1 on December 19, 2020, 10:19:55 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 19, 2020, 12:29:13 AM
What happened to your team?
I was watching the knicks, so didn’t see the game.
But apparently the Celts were thoroughly outplayed by the Nyets, in Boston!
Maybe Steve Nash knows how to coach?

Hey Carlos-Happy Holidays!

I didn't see the game either, which considering the results was a win!

I saw the Celts first game against the 76ers a couple of days ago mostly to see the new guys

I don't put much  stock in pre-season games, but the thing that stuck out in that game was Pritchard, the guard out of Oregon didn't look lost, and the Celts need a good PG in Kemba's absence to run the O. They looked too helter-skelter and throwing up bad shots. Teague may or may not be the short-term band-aid. That 28M TPE may get cashed this year.

I saw the box-score from last night and just going by the #s, 18% from 3-land doesn't win a lot of games.

On the Nets side if Durant and KI stay healthy and team focused and let Nash worry about coaching, they could be pretty good.

I'm not too worried about the Celts I figured they will play the first few weeks working around Kemba and TT injuries by playing the last two draft classes a little more than usual to see if the kids (GW, Langford (he's hurt) TimeLord, Nesmith, Pritchard) can contribute later in the season. It also means they will probably play small. Which might mean a bumpy ride for awhile.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 19, 2020, 10:42:34 AM
Straight split of minutes, Theis and Thompson?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 19, 2020, 11:49:49 AM
Quote from: FWK00 on December 18, 2020, 11:53:36 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 18, 2020, 10:05:54 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on December 18, 2020, 08:50:22 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 18, 2020, 03:05:42 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on December 18, 2020, 02:05:14 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 18, 2020, 12:08:10 PM
Knicks have the picks for Harden.  Let's build a hypothetical

Barrett (not saying I do it), Randle, 2 number 1s, but not our own '21.

What else?

Fuck this trade. 

Barrett, Mitch, the Dallas picks

Numbers don't work without Randle.

Oh, alright then... Randle

Hey! Hey!

You want a Hardon in the Gardon you gotta pay the mon.

And suppose one does not give a fuck about him and his ego, and is unwilling to gut the team to go from the NY Knicks to the Manhattan Hardons? 

Tom Thibodeau is the coach.  Leon Rose/Walt Perrin/Scott Perry the brain trust.  Not interested in investing that power in James Harden, no matter his epic talent.  The price on so many levels is just too fucking high.

When you see click paint projecting the Miami Heat trading Duncan Robinson/Tyler Herro or the Sixers trading Ben Simmons, well...that stockking over the fireplace will be empty this XMAS. 
Title: Re: Hey Bank
Post by: chipstern on December 19, 2020, 11:52:57 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 19, 2020, 12:29:13 AM
What happened to your team?
I was watching the knicks, so didn’t see the game.
But apparently the Celts were thoroughly outplayed by the Nyets, in Boston!
Maybe Steve Nash knows how to coach?

The Nyets talent level and reserves are SIGNIFICANT. 

Not to mention LaVert, Harris, Irving, Duncan....DEAD EYE SHOOTERS COMING OUT THE ASS. 

Will be a challenge for our Knucks just to stay on the court with the Nyets. 
Title: Another Good Sign
Post by: chipstern on December 19, 2020, 12:16:22 PM
Our Power Forwards?

Julius And Obi?

Combined for 12 Assists. 

And this bears repeating. 

Mitchell played 27 minutes, and obviously none of them were against Drummond, but McGee was in there, and he is a pretty solid sender....12 rebounds, 4 blocks and NO FOULS.

SIDEBAR: Knicks gave an Exhibit 10 to Bryce Brown, a 6'3" PG/SG out of Auburn, who was a teammate of Jared Harper, and Harper was a HS team mate of the Cavs PG Collin Sexton.  There was play by Harper which really made me smile, where Sexton gave Jared a seriies of jukes, and our G-Leaguer suddenly set his feet, anticipating the next move, planted his feet, established position, and got steamrolled on his way to an offensive foul call.  Brown got five minutes at the end of the game, and knocked down one of two treys.  Harper brought Auburn to the Final Four.  Can see why. He ain't cosmic, but JH checks a lot of the same boxes as IQ. 

Theo Pinson.  Our other 2-Way Signing.  Jared took Allonzo's spot, and Theo took Kadeem Allen's.  Is 25 out of North Carolina.  Does not appear to have much of a jump shot in his repertoire, but a strong 6'5", with a good motor, and seems to have solid defensive/team game instincts.  In 19 minutes he hit both his free throws, with 3 assists, 3 steals, 2 boards and a block.   God forbid he develops a jumper. 
Title: Indiana
Post by: chipstern on December 19, 2020, 12:53:45 PM
Sabonis and Olidiapo and Brogdon looking to be formidable heading into Wednesday's opener. 

Here we go....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 19, 2020, 01:25:59 PM
Tom Thibodeau is the coach.  Leon Rose/Walt Perrin/Scott Perry the brain trust.  Not interested in investing that power in James Harden, no matter his epic talent.  The price on so many levels is just too fucking high.


How do you know Tom and Leon haven't considered Harden?
Title: Re: Indiana
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 19, 2020, 01:31:13 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 19, 2020, 12:53:45 PM
Sabonis and Olidiapo and Brogdon looking to be formidable heading into Wednesday's opener. 

Here we go....

TJ Warren....Lamb underrated, McD with the jumper

And McConnell always kills us

But look out for GOGA BITADZE!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 19, 2020, 01:38:21 PM
So.....

let me take a shot at this Knicks minutes thing for the opener

Randle - 36
Barrett - 32
Payton - 28
Burks - 28
Noel - 23
Knox - 22
Robinson - 19
Toppin - 18
Quickley - 14
Bullock - 12
Smith Jr - 4
Ntlikina - 4

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 19, 2020, 01:51:48 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 19, 2020, 01:25:59 PM
Tom Thibodeau is the coach.  Leon Rose/Walt Perrin/Scott Perry the brain trust.  Not interested in investing that power in James Harden, no matter his epic talent.  The price on so many levels is just too fucking high.


How do you know Tom and Leon haven't considered Harden?

Take A Wild Guess
Title: Thibs & Padre Riles: HOW MINUTES ARE EARNED
Post by: chipstern on December 19, 2020, 02:32:38 PM
As per minutes and rotations. 

I'm ready coach...

AH, BUT ARE YOU PREPARED?


So sayeth Padre Riles. 

And THIBS?

"What Quick showed us.  He didn't play in the first game...but it didn't change his approach.  And then when his opportunity came, he was ready, and he ran with it.  So we need everyone to do that, and we're going to count on everyone over the course of the season; if you're not in the rotation, initially, it doesn't mean you'll stay there for the entire season: you have bench needs, you have foul trouble, you have illness, you have a lot of things that factor into it.  So the one thing you have to do is be ready.  And I think Quick has shown that and we have some other guys who have shown that as well." 
Title: Addendum
Post by: chipstern on December 19, 2020, 02:46:59 PM
Phool Jackoff

Having dispensed with Mike Woodson. 

During his initial coaching search, Thibs was there for the taking. 

But a Phool and his ego are soon pharted. 

He wanted a Triangle Toady.

So Tom Thibodeau?

Nah. 

"I'll annoint Derek Fisher."

I guess Charlie Rosen was unavalable.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 19, 2020, 02:50:50 PM
Yeah....

Fish had his limitations, still does as he coaches womens ball

But at the time it looked like a pretty decent gamble rather than go with the tried and true.

I'd also think you may not have the entire story on Thibs/Phil and the job opening -

but then again - 4 days before the opener who fucking cares about Phil, other than to feel that its nice to see another Knick (Burks) do good things in 18.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 19, 2020, 03:18:48 PM
I hope Thibs doesn't go as vet heavy as kiid anticipates.  But that's his MO.  Also big minutes to starters and not play too many guys.  8-9 man rotation at his other stops.  Though we have lots of yute and guys who need minutes.  So 9-10 man likely, I'd think.

I wouldn't read much at all into pre-season with regards to Knox and Franc and anyone else (except IQ -- it is a much bigger deal for rooks). 

I think some teams would be interested in adding Franc, a young defensive combo G.  But I don't think they'd offer much, it's not like he's A Very Bradley.  I think they're more looking to see if they can pick our pocket of a guy we didn't develop, who might be better on his 2nd contract which should be reasonable.  That is, teams think Franc might be an okay rotation guy for 10-15 minutes when they need some defense at G.  While taking a flyer that he could improve his PG chops as he matures.

I'd start Mitch.  But given his foul troubles, and Noel not a big minute guy anyway, the 2nd unit is fine.  Not much difference between them right now, so it's a matter of keeping folks focused.  One positive is that it gets Mitch matched with ObiT and QuickenLoans, and Knox.  So gets all our yute (except RJB, who could join them at times) developing chemistry together.  That I like.

I'd balance vets and yute in my units more by starting RJB and Mitch.  While having Quickie, Topping, Knox playing with Rivers (/Bullox) and Nawlins.  But I can see some benefit of Thibs presumed approach.  Vets set the tone and 2nd unit yute learn to work together.  Though I think some games that method is going to falter and look bad.  But any combination of players will go south at times anyway, as we don't have chemistry, have lots of young guys, mostly journeymen vets, no stars, etc.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 19, 2020, 03:42:32 PM
In time second unit could have three vets

Noel, Bullock, Rivers

Lots of options.  Knox has become a wild card.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 19, 2020, 04:26:23 PM
It’s pretty open as to who starts and who subs between Bullock and Burks. Both will have big roles, as will Noel. Rivers has to play his way into the rotation which is by no means a lock.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 19, 2020, 04:42:53 PM
I thought Rivers had a leg up in that trio, in that he can provide some extra playmaking/ballhandling which the Knix need.  But IQ's emergence might squeeze Au Revoir's minutes.

Bullox is a steady customer who doesn't need the ball and makes an effort on D.  Burks is a gunner and we need shooting.  If Quicks is a 15-20 min guy, Rivers might be left out.  But there will be injuries and funks.
Title: Bottom Line
Post by: chipstern on December 19, 2020, 05:39:40 PM
A nice mix of puppies and veterans.

Some of the pups on the upswing, others getting one last chance to make a case for themselves. 

A number of interesting narratives. 

Quickley's seeming emergence tossing the whole back court seeding into disarray. 

My guess?  How we come out of the gate?  I seem to be in alignment with BoD.  Are we in alignment with THIBS? 

Robinson-Randle-RJ-Burks-Peyton

Noel-Toppin-Knox-Bullock-Quickley

Smith-Ntilikina-Rivers

Spellman-Brazdeikis

One would think Burks and Bullock taking turns in the first unit at SG and SF

One would think Noel and Robinson toggling/interchangeable in the starting five, and likewise, Coach liking the chemistry and energy he got from the all-pups lineup of Robinson-Toppin-Knox-Barrett-Quickley coming off the bench and trying to take it the other team's second unit. 

Likewise...the emergence of Quickley has created a real scrum among Rivers-Peyton-Smith-Ntilikina.

If there were fans in the stands, they would be screaming for High IQ. 

Our depth is interesting. 

No one really stands out as a FRANCHISE PLAYER, like Durant and Irving. 

So it is going to have to be a COLLECTIVE TEAM EFFORT. 

All hands on deck..team...TEAM.

So little prep time, no summer league, NO SUMMER, no month long preseason, so the first month should see a lot of mixing and matching, what have we got, which combos work. 

I really do not give a fuck about vets versus youth, the shuffling of the deck, the inevitable losses, because we do seem to have a bar which will be raised, a standard which will be met, and accountability which will be enforced. 

ALL HANDS ON DECK. Bring on the Pacers.  A worthy and daunting challenge for Game ONE. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 19, 2020, 05:59:06 PM
Likewise...the emergence of Quickley has created a real scrum among Rivers-Peyton-Smith-Ntilikina.



Nahhh, man - come on

You had to see that Payton won the starting PG slot

Quickley's emergence - should positives continue - gives less reason to give any thought to rushing Rivers back from what can be a nagging injury if not allowed to heal.

Shouldnt affect Rivers initially.  Only his own sloppy play or further injury would cost a rotation slot.

Is there more of a chance we go 11 deep a lot of nights, witch the added effective players?

YES, despite Thibs not usually liking to.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 19, 2020, 09:27:16 PM
Payton could certainly help his cause by hitting a few outside shots.

Title: Speaking Of Which....
Post by: chipstern on December 19, 2020, 09:37:19 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 19, 2020, 09:27:16 PM
Payton could certainly help his cause by hitting a few outside shots.

Hitting outside shots....

Could see this coming a mile away.

https://nypost.com/2020/12/19/knicks-waiving-michael-kidd-gilchrist/ (https://nypost.com/2020/12/19/knicks-waiving-michael-kidd-gilchrist/)

Kidd is gone...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 20, 2020, 12:31:21 AM
Iggy showed his worth.

So it’s

Mitch Noel Spellman
Randle Toppin
Bullock Knox Iggy
Barrett Burks Frank Rivers
Quickley Payton DSJ

Harper Pinson

Looks a lot more like an NBA team than what we’ve been trotting out in recent seasons.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 20, 2020, 01:25:29 AM
This year’s whole rookie class is damn fun. Less a weak draft than a deep draft of quirky players.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 20, 2020, 07:06:09 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 20, 2020, 12:31:21 AM
Looks a lot more like an NBA team than what we’ve been trotting out in recent seasons.

Basically similar to what we had last year with the addition of two solid-looking rooks.

It is a deep and interesting rook class. 
Was a good year to have a 2nd 1st rounder #27.  #23. #25.
Give the NYK credit for that (even if it might have just been dumb luck).

Toppings, Avdija, Haiburton, Vassal -- I think it was hard to go wrong.
Kira Lewis or Saddiq Bey might prove out to be Top 10 talents as well.

The 2nd round looks interesting as well.
Title: You Think?
Post by: chipstern on December 20, 2020, 12:03:50 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 20, 2020, 07:06:09 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 20, 2020, 12:31:21 AM
Looks a lot more like an NBA team than what we’ve been trotting out in recent seasons.

Basically similar to what we had last year with the addition of two solid-looking rooks.

It is a deep and interesting rook class. 
Was a good year to have a 2nd 1st rounder #27.  #23. #25.
Give the NYK credit for that (even if it might have just been dumb luck).

Toppings, Avdija, Haiburton, Vassal -- I think it was hard to go wrong.
Kira Lewis or Saddiq Bey might prove out to be Top 10 talents as well.

The 2nd round looks interesting as well.

You THINK? 

Randle >   ____________ [Toppin]

Portis >  Noels

Gibson > Spellman

Morris >  ______________ [Quickley]

Ellington > Burke

Payton > Rivers

Think it is worth noting that I was not at the time an enthusiast for the Knicks-Clippers Trade.

Our take? 

Moe Harkless, Issuf Sanon, Clippers' 2020 first-round pick, 2020 second-round pick (via Detroit), Swap Rights with the Clippers on their 2021 first-round pick.

I wasn't a Harkless enthusiast, but I grew to respect him during his time here.  Like some, would like to have perhaps kept him in a 3&D role, but while Bullock doesn't have Moe's length at 6'7" and abilllity to match up with fours, he has good defensive instincts and size at 6'6" and is a far better free throw shooter and legit threat as a 3-point shooter.  Harkless purportedly had some better financial offers than Miami, but I think he made the right choiced.  He is tailor made for the Spoelstra/Riley Culture.

Now that #27 first rounder and our second rounder turned into the #23 pick, and from there into #25 & #33, and so far High IQ is looking pretty damn good as a scoring point/combo guard, doubly ironic when you figure that the Clippers are rather thin at PG, not that Patrick Beverley and Lou Williams are chopped liver, but having been forced to pony up Shai Gilgeous-Alexander and multiple trade assets in the Paul George trade, well, Quickley would look better in a Clippers jersey than a Knicks.  Still, Morris has fit in. 

So, we get High IQ, and Detroit's 2020-2021 second rounder, which might turn out to be an okay asset, though they have some talent on that team...enough to be a playoff team?  Mmmmmmm....

And we get the option of swapping our #1 for the Clippers, likely not an asset, but injuries happen, do they not? 

Oddly enough, the draft rights to Ukranian PG Issuf Sanon, while not as yummy as the inclusion of Landry Shamet which we were pushing for, proved useful when we signed Austin Rivers to that three year-$10 million deal.  Holding Austin's Bird rights, Houston signed him to that contract than passed him on to the Knicks along with the rights to Sergio Llull, Tadija Dragicevic and Alex Hervelle for Rivers, thus giving the Rockets a promising young PG asset as oppossed to NADA, whereas in this way, Rivers did not count against our cap space.  Sergio Llull is a 33 year old Real Madrid PG.  Ever coming here?  Mmmmmmmmmmm....

I went through all of this excruciating detail to counter the notion which Bo floated that we pretty much lined up under Rose-WWW-Perrin-Aller-Perry much as we did under Mills-Perry.   

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....I think not. 

POSTSCRIPT: Under Pandemic Conditions, every player on the 15 Man Roster is active and eligible to play

So...

C: Robinson, Noel
PF-C: Randle, Spellman
SF-PF: Toppin, Knox, Brazdeikis
SG-SF: Barrett, Bullock, Burks, Ntilikina
PG-SG: Payton, Quickley, Rivers, Smith

Yes, I know it is something of a stretch to count Julius as a C, Toppin as a SF, Knox and Brazdeikis as PFs, but we saw glimpses of Thibs looking them over as such, situationally in the post-Small Ball Epoch.  Even Obi for a hot minute.  And hey, who was our starting center last year?  Taj Gibson.  Is Iggy...Draymond Green?  Not fucking hardly, but both are meaty 6'6", and Brazdeikis is closer to a 3-4, than a 3-2.  And if we could get away, for argument's sake, Randle-Knox-Bullock-Burks-_______.  And Frank?  With Payton, Quickley, Rivers and Smith all jousting for minutes at the POINT, Frank might find himself playing more of the Bruce Bowen 3-2 defensive specialist, save that BB was taller at 6'7" and turned into one of the more lethal three point snipers in NBA history.

So all I'm saying, Bo, is that this roster, lacking a putative SUPERMAN, alas, seems far more interesting and better balanced between young veterans, and young, Younger, YOUNGEST puppies...

Giving Tom Thibodeau a very interesting set of Crayolas to work with. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 20, 2020, 12:27:19 PM
Just pointing out that folks were also excited last year about adding Morris, Portis, Taj, Ellington, Bullocks.
And of course our prized rook RJB, who had an up-and-down season and some rough sledding at times.

I sort of look at it as Topping is in the Portis role of last year. 
Backing up Randle, while he's here.  Long-term ObiT is much better than Wild Man Portis.
More inside game and fewer bad shots, both not much at D.

Noel is in the Taj chair.  I like the Nawlins pickup.

Morris better than Burks or anyone we added this year.
We loaded up more on SG's this year when it was PF's last year.
Rivers an upgrade on Ellington.

The big wildcard is Quickly. 
If IQ can play Point for 20 mins a game and uptempo things and shoot, then we have a whole different team dynamic.

Thibs and Quicks might be the biggest changes...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 20, 2020, 12:53:54 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 20, 2020, 12:27:19 PM
Just pointing out that folks were also excited last year about adding Morris, Portis, Taj, Ellington, Bullocks.
And of course our prized rook RJB, who had an up-and-down season and some rough sledding at times.

I sort of look at it as Topping is in the Portis role of last year. 
Backing up Randle, while he's here.  Long-term ObiT is much better than Wild Man Portis.
More inside game and fewer bad shots, both not much at D.

Noel is in the Taj chair.  I like the Nawlins pickup.

Morris better than Burks or anyone we added this year.
We loaded up more on SG's this year when it was PF's last year.
Rivers an upgrade on Ellington.

The big wildcard is Quickly. 
If IQ can play Point for 20 mins a game and uptempo things and shoot, then we have a whole different team dynamic.

Thibs and Quicks might be the biggest changes...

How long are you going to keep beating the received wisdom that Obi is hopeless on D.  Of a piece with the Okoro cannot shoot narrative.  The young man is freak athelete in transition and it makes sense for him to come up under Randle in Thibs system...woth noting, again, that while Randle notched 8 assists the other night, Obi had 4.  He has not yet even displayed faith in his jumper...the notion that Obi is an eternal loser on defense is NONSENSE...think Thibs would've been on board for a defensive loser.  Christ. 

Morris....better than anyone we signed. 

Better player?

Or

Better fit?

I loved MM, a fierce competitor, an outside threat, but he was something of a ball stopper, and just turned 31.   Not mention that his presence robbed Kevin Knox of a developmental year. 

But netted us Quickley, so all is forgiven. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on December 20, 2020, 01:26:28 PM
Sorry not impressed. No joy in watching busts Frank and KK throw up bricks. Hopefully some some rookie contributions for future.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 20, 2020, 01:45:05 PM
MaMo was on a one year deal and more concerned about numbers and his next contract than team.  Expect Burks to be fairly similar.  With that said, MaMo put on an impressive offensive display when he was here and carried us some nights.

Most rooks are weak at defense.  And ObiT was known as a poor defender in college.
Also no doubt some teams will go at him.  Griffin tried that some in the opener.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 20, 2020, 01:48:34 PM
5 / $205M for Gobert.
Wowza, I would not want to be a part of that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 20, 2020, 02:09:04 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 19, 2020, 09:27:16 PM
Payton could certainly help his cause by hitting a few outside shots.

Not like in their offense he is missing them

EP's effectiveness has been getting to paint.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 20, 2020, 02:12:03 PM
I like Elfrid a lot. Because he let defenses sag with his awful jumper, his effectiveness just wasn’t all that effective.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 20, 2020, 02:18:55 PM
Sorry not impressed. No joy in watching busts Frank and KK throw up bricks. Hopefully some some rookie contributions for future.


Frank has been BURIED and Knox made 6 of 7 threes last time out

I am Knox's biggest detractor but SEE the positive , man.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 20, 2020, 02:22:28 PM
MaMo was on a one year deal and more concerned about numbers and his next contract than team.  Expect Burks to be fairly similar.  With that said, MaMo put on an impressive offensive display when he was here and carried us some nights.



You dont know SHIT

So, you are saying all Thibs positives about TEAM are just lost on Alec Burks.

Jeez-us. 

Showing you are a team guy gets you paid as much as a statline. bro.  I dont recall Morris playing selfishly at all in NY or in LA.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 20, 2020, 02:46:03 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 20, 2020, 01:45:05 PM
MaMo was on a one year deal and more concerned about numbers and his next contract than team.  Expect Burks to be fairly similar.  With that said, MaMo put on an impressive offensive display when he was here and carried us some nights.

Most rooks are weak at defense.  And ObiT was known as a poor defender in college.
Also no doubt some teams will go at him.  Griffin tried that some in the opener.

Dig

Okoro tagged as a master defender coming in. 

So far, picking up a lot of Rookie Fouls. 

All rooks are tested.

Saw that Vassell has been racking up steals as a Spur.  Also fouls. 

The thing I am seeing so far in Obi is that he is erring on the side of thinking TEAM, and is thus sometimes over thinking, over passing, passing up shots.  He hears his coach and all of his detractors, and is consciously addressing it.  He will have a break out game over the next 4-6 weeks, and then we will have a more accurate template of his upside on D & O. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 20, 2020, 02:50:38 PM
Quote from: luee on December 20, 2020, 01:26:28 PM
Sorry not impressed. No joy in watching busts Frank and KK throw up bricks. Hopefully some some rookie contributions for future.

Duh

You might want to pay a virtual/socially distanced visit to a LensCrafters. 

When the Prophet Kiid is addressing your Kevin Knox dismissals in the affirmative, clearly there are issues with your vision and cognitive functions. 

Best wishes for you moving forward. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 20, 2020, 04:24:51 PM
Re. Obi

Getting to balls is part of playing defense.  Toppin seems to have that uncanny anticipatory knack.
Title: Try A New Angle
Post by: chipstern on December 20, 2020, 05:51:19 PM
The new wrinkles Clippers coach Tyronn Lue added to the offense this season originated from the triangle offense and the ways in which Kobe Bryant and Michael Jordan found high rates of success. Lue decided to employ “a few sets” from the triangle because Kawhi Leonard has the skills to operate in the pinch-post area like Bryant did with the Lakers and Jordan did with the Chicago Bulls. And Lue is using this because Leonard expressed a desire to perform in the triangle. – via Broderick Turner @ Los Angeles Times


“We have put in two or three sets of the triangle and let Kawhi play in those spaces where Kobe and Jordan played in those spots as well,” Lue said before Sunday’s practice. “He loves those two players and he really respects and looks up to those guys. So, we just try to put him in position. I was able to play with both those guys and I also played in the triangle, so just trying to teach him that as well … teach our team as well.” – via Broderick Turner @ Los Angeles Times
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on December 20, 2020, 08:14:33 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 20, 2020, 02:50:38 PM
Quote from: luee on December 20, 2020, 01:26:28 PM
Sorry not impressed. No joy in watching busts Frank and KK throw up bricks. Hopefully some some rookie contributions for future.

Duh

You might want to pay a virtual/socially distanced visit to a LensCrafters. 

When the Prophet Kiid is addressing your Kevin Knox dismissals in the affirmative, clearly there are issues with your vision and cognitive functions. 

Best wishes for you moving forward.

So nice to see the pom poms and rose colored glasses before the season starts. Yeah yeah a 60 win season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 20, 2020, 08:44:32 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 20, 2020, 07:06:09 AM

It is a deep and interesting rook class. 
Was a good year to have a 2nd 1st rounder #27.  #23. #25.
Give the NYK credit for that (even if it might have just been dumb luck).


Starting last season we poached Marcus Morris  from the Spur... which was only made possible when Bullock's injury made us change the free agent offer we had initially made to him.  We signed yet another PF but he came on and became a starter at our SF spot.   He put up numbers allowing a trade for the first round pick that became Quickley.

Never would've happened without a series of fortunate events.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 20, 2020, 09:56:44 PM
Yep

And seems to be a THING in the league now


Sign a guy for a year with hopes you either

- like him enough to foresee you will wish to sign him again - and have the space

or

- can deal him for a pick midseason

Also a thing - signing guys so that you have big enough contracts to send back in a deal for a star (see what Heat did with Meyers Leonard)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 20, 2020, 09:57:42 PM
Yeah, MaMo blew off his commitment to the Spurs offer.  Kinda naughty.
Worked out well for NYK.  But SAS let Bertans go in order to have a roster spot for MaMo.  Oops.

MaMo did a lot of 1-on-1, ballstopping and gunning.  It's just that he did it at a high level, and our offense needed help, so it wasn't that noticeable how much he was going for numbers.  There were games where his defense was pretty desultory, just grabbing guys going for layups.

Portis was another 1-year contract guy who hunted his own shot/points, also willing to take a rebound from a teammate.  Chucked a lot, didn't play team ball.

Players know that they get paid primarily based on scoring.  Scoring and minutes are probably what effect a players next contract the most.
Otherwise playing a role on a winning team helps a fair amount too, but that's not a factor for our Knickerbockers.  After that, having some big crazy Tony Delk night, or exposing one team badly (so that they want that player to fill that hole on their roster -- teams often too impressed by guys who they see in person kill their team).

Burks is on a 1-year deal.  His 6th team in 3 years.  Age 29, he's looking to secure a long-term contract.
Last few years he gets up a lot of shots.  On a team without many shooters, he's gonna be gunning in NYC.  Elf doesn't shoot much, nor Franc, RJB only some, Mitch a lob/putback guy, Randle shoots but is looking to pass more this year, ObiT a rook and team guy.  Knox can be withdrawn.

Burks is going to shoot a lot with at least one eye on his numbers.  Most players convince themselves that the more they score the better it is for the team.
Not saying he's going to go totally rogue -- he doesn't have that clout -- but he's going to launch.  If he shoots at a high clip, it'll be a help.  But a career 36% 3-point shooter, not much of a passer. Expect Burks to be more of a one-man team than team player.  And if his shot goes south, Rivers is there to take minutes from him.  Steady Reg Bullox too.  We'll see.

And every coach, except maybe Fizdale, preaches team.
____________________________________________________________

Agree that ObiT seems like a team guy.
Knox went 6-7 on 3's but had 1 board and 1 assist.
Gotta contribute whether the shot is falling or not.
I'd like to see Knox pick up one foul a game going hard for rebounds.
Well, not at inopportune times.  Need to see smart aggression.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 20, 2020, 10:08:57 PM
Knox went 6-7 on 3's but had 1 board and 1 assist.


Whew - thanks - I again feel vindicated (no worries - Pacers will add to it as well)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 20, 2020, 10:18:45 PM
I wouldn't be surprised to see one of Burks/Rivers get tossed in a mid-season deal for Randle.  NYK would likely rather part with one of them than Knox/Franc.  With Burks/Rivers/Bollocks, we have one surplus vet wing.

Not saying a Randle trade will go down.  But we'll be listening, and partly depends on ObiT's readiness to start (I'd be fine with Knox & Obi as our PF tandem).  I'm sure we're willing to part with Franc.  But sweetening a Randle deal with a vet scorer makes more sense for us.

In the supposed Randle for Hield deal, it makes sense for Sacto to get an SG back.  Burks, Rivers or Franc.  Burks played the last 13 games of 2019 for the Kings then left as a FA.

Luee, Knox is just 21.  He's 1.5 years younger than ObiT.  Has never played with a quality PG.  Has had to deal with a revolving door of coaches and players.  Still a pup, learning and developing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 20, 2020, 10:26:53 PM
Knox did show some passing ability in pre-season.
That terrific outlet to RJB.
One play in G1 v DET, Obi pushed the ball in transition, hit Knox in the corner, who faked his man, drive to the paint going right and passed back to ObiT on the baseline left for a jam.  Beautiful. 

Add a little passing and boarding chops to Knox and we won't have to rely solely on whether his 3 is falling or not.  And his 3 form looks good, btw.
I just want to see Knox in the mix more.  Not passive. 

I do like how ObiT is good at working the baseline, relocating and letting switching defenses lose track of him.  When rooks utilize the baseline, they do a nice job of expanding the court and not getting in the way of vets and set plays.  It's smart court usage by a rook, and especially one like Toppings who can go over the top on ya.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 20, 2020, 10:46:49 PM
Unsurety of decision somehow hit OT between Games 1 and 4.  Cant really understand why

For instance when he catches in 3 point land - it is catch, look then maybe shoot.  Never a good thing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 20, 2020, 11:55:58 PM
Luee, Knox is just 21.  He's 1.5 years younger than ObiT. Has never played with a quality PG. Has had to deal with a revolving door of coaches and players.  Still a pup, learning and developing.

Stop with this already

You shoot consistently well on open looks or you dont.  Hopefully things turn for Knox off the promising 2 games.  Does he get the 22 minutes I projected with AR out?  We'll see.  But if he gets his looks and shoots poorly vs Pacers and the few games after that, dont blame his teammates, please.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on December 21, 2020, 01:29:54 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 20, 2020, 11:55:58 PM
Luee, Knox is just 21.  He's 1.5 years younger than ObiT. Has never played with a quality PG. Has had to deal with a revolving door of coaches and players.  Still a pup, learning and developing.

Stop with this already

You shoot consistently well on open looks or you dont.  Hopefully things turn for Knox off the promising 2 games.  Does he get the 22 minutes I projected with AR out?  We'll see.  But if he gets his looks and shoots poorly vs Pacers and the few games after that, dont blame his teammates, please.

He regressed terribly in year two, never a good sign. From 12 to an anemic 6 ppg. Does not like to be muscled.
Title: Aching Achilles
Post by: bodiddley on December 21, 2020, 02:09:03 AM
You get more open looks, better looks, the ball delivered in the pocket, knowing when/where your shots will come from, etc. when you have an orchestrator and steady system.  Is this actually in dispute?

Yeah, I'd have Knox watch clips of Tatum and Melo taking it strong to the rim.  Knox has a way of hunching down and making himself smaller, gets blocked a lot that way on layups.  I want to see Knox crunch some people (on either end).

I can see Knox as a solid starter, even borderline all-star down the road.  The tools are there.  Just need to put things together, improve incrementally, adjust his mindset some, develop more confidence.  I think half of the challenge is mental, which is encouraging to me.  Caveat: it might not transpire for 5+ years out. Fort Knox is only 21.

I think everyone on the Knix -- Mitch, RJB, Knox, ObiT, Randle, our vet SG trio -- would look better playing next to a quality starting-level PG.
It's been the Knix torn achilles for a long time.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 21, 2020, 05:01:06 AM
Here are the essential parts of how we can be successful in today’s NBA, where your point of attack guy must force his man over a screen and be threat enough with his man on his back to cause a power play everywhere else on the court.

Point of Attack: Quickley Burks (maybe rivers when he is healthy)
Sniper: Bullock Knox
Skill guy w suspect shot: RJ Payton
PF: Randle Toppin
Agile rim guy: Mitch Noel

Everyone else, Frank, DSJ, Iggy, and Spellman have to ready themselves to fill one or more of these roles effectively. Their times will surely come this season.

With the Quickley, Bullock, RJ, Randle, Mitch group you have your power frontcourt, Physical wings, and your sniper PG. Noel, Toppin, Knox, Burks, Payton as second unit means your subs at big positions are both more mobile with more range than the guys they go in for while giving up size. The perimeter subs can keep the chain going with Burks putting a two guard on his hip while Quickley does it to ones. RJ and Payton can ride herd on the proceedings to finish or otherwise intercede when appropriate. Knox and Obi will either catch lightning or hold the fort. I expect this would vary game to game. If RJ or Quickley hit a funk or are getting outfoxed, putting in Payton or Burks to carry through the game you get at least a scratch player at the position and should still be able to give yourself a chance to win.

I expect that in the scrimmage portion of the practices between the Cleveland preseason closer and the Indianapolis regular season opener, battles for these starting jobs are being staged and assessed by the staff along with seeing what situational combos work best.

If this all looks different opening night, I’ll be willing to believe it’s for good reason.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 21, 2020, 07:16:52 AM
Yo Chip, Stanley Cowell passed on.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/20/arts/music/stanley-cowell-dead.html
Let me know if you have any album/song recs from Cowell as a leader, which in all unknown to me.  I mostly just know his name and reputation.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 21, 2020, 09:28:26 AM
He regressed terribly in year two, never a good sign. From 12 to an anemic 6 ppg. Does not like to be muscled.


Dont base effective play on PPG.  There could be many factors

Look at shooting percentages, stats per 36 minutes, PER

But yeah, he's been bad.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/k/knoxke01.html

We have til about this time next year I think to decide on an extension.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 21, 2020, 09:36:08 AM
You get more open looks, better looks, the ball delivered in the pocket, knowing when/where your shots will come from, etc. when you have an orchestrator and steady system.  Is this actually in dispute?

Maybe a spray chart could help your case but its not like Knox hasnt got open looks - and thats why his % is down

Top of key and corner being easiest, maybe the chart would show too many wing attempts.

By the way, speaking of extensions, isnt today Frank's deadline?  Reminder - no Knicks dafat pick has signed a rookie extension since WARD in '94.

3-27, with 3rd year a team option?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 21, 2020, 09:39:28 AM
Fac - good sum up

I think we could all live with Quickley getting a chance to run this team - am I expecting it?  Not yet - no

I think Burks is too good a shooter to not have him in the starting lineup.

Noel and Mitch?  Don't care.

Glad you at least have Julius starting in this enactment  :)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 21, 2020, 09:42:32 AM
Question -

especially if OBI starts going haywire on the O end -

How much do we want to see Randle-Toppin-Burks (or other)-Barrett-Quickley (or other)?

Thinking being we put a HARD TO GUARD team (imagine that) out there for some stretches, see if teams can match up - and just live with it at the other end.

I will note moving forward how often we see this and how effective it is
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 21, 2020, 09:48:41 AM
Yeah, I'd have Knox watch clips of Tatum and Melo taking it strong to the rim.  Knox has a way of hunching down and making himself smaller, gets blocked a lot that way on layups.  I want to see Knox crunch some people (on either end).


GREAT point.

The angle on KK's drives is improper - not directly at the tin.  Has to be a more inline path - and needs a cutback (maybe a Eurostep?) counter.

Much of this is psychological.  I dont ever see Knox as a seek contact guy

Physical strength (which at times just comes with age, believe it or not) will help, as players would more often bounce off and back (see Doncic) while contesting.

OK - put me in the 'only include Knox in a plus plus deal" group - for now at least.  I have been hard on him but his attitude is quite good,
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 21, 2020, 09:52:37 AM
When in Chitown, Thibs didn't play rooks.
I think that modified a fair amount in MINNy.
But I still suspect Thibs will lean on vets mostly, like his initial pre-season starting unit.

You think Franc should get an $8.5M/$9M/$9.5M deal?
That's what an average player makes -- the full MLE.
I'd think Franc is worth about 1/2 of that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 21, 2020, 10:14:11 AM
I'd think Franc is worth about 1/2 of that.


Right

But he's not taking it,

If you want him, you pay him - and he can always be used in deals down the road with the 9 mil offset.

Plus the 3rd year not guaranteed.

Exum stunk and got 3-33.  I knocked FN down a notch.


*AS you know, I'd have dealt Frank already.  Doesnt make me right.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 21, 2020, 10:46:55 AM
Exum had injury issues so was still seen as having potential.
But yeah, his deal was out of whack.

It's pretty clear Franc isn't a PG and likely isn't a starter.
Franc at $9M is a detriment.  Better to let him walk methinks.
I'd offer him 3/$14M
Title: Bring It ON
Post by: chipstern on December 21, 2020, 12:10:59 PM
Quote from: luee on December 20, 2020, 08:14:33 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 20, 2020, 02:50:38 PM
Quote from: luee on December 20, 2020, 01:26:28 PM
Sorry not impressed. No joy in watching busts Frank and KK throw up bricks. Hopefully some some rookie contributions for future.

Duh

You might want to pay a virtual/socially distanced visit to a LensCrafters. 

When the Prophet Kiid is addressing your Kevin Knox dismissals in the affirmative, clearly there are issues with your vision and cognitive functions. 

Best wishes for you moving forward.

So nice to see the pom poms and rose colored glasses before the season starts. Yeah yeah a 60 win season.

Well played.

The Negative Nancies Have SPOKEN. 

PS: 60 wins might prove a tad bold. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 21, 2020, 12:13:40 PM
22 GETS YOU THE CASH

I SAY BET THE OVER.

I even see a 5-6 game win streak at some point
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 21, 2020, 12:15:27 PM
Quote from: luee on December 21, 2020, 01:29:54 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 20, 2020, 11:55:58 PM
Luee, Knox is just 21.  He's 1.5 years younger than ObiT. Has never played with a quality PG. Has had to deal with a revolving door of coaches and players.  Still a pup, learning and developing.

Stop with this already

You shoot consistently well on open looks or you dont.  Hopefully things turn for Knox off the promising 2 games.  Does he get the 22 minutes I projected with AR out?  We'll see.  But if he gets his looks and shoots poorly vs Pacers and the few games after that, dont blame his teammates, please.

He regressed terribly in year two, never a good sign. From 12 to an anemic 6 ppg. Does not like to be muscled.

Morris was given all of his minutes. 

There was no rhythm or surety to how he would get floor time. 

Fizdale went from feeding him minutes to all manner of WTF moves, such as starting RJ at PG on opening night.  And Miller, while he did make some positive progress, favored vets in a manner that did not address our youth, such as burying DD and playing Ellington.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 21, 2020, 12:20:04 PM
'20-'21 over/unders


WEST

Los Angeles Lakers 46.5
Los Angeles Clippers 45.5
Denver Nuggets 44.5
Dallas Mavericks 42.5
Utah Jazz 42.5
Portland Trail Blazers 41.5
Phoenix Suns 38.5
Golden State Warriors 36.5
New Orleans Pelicans 36.5
Houston Rockets 34.5
Memphis Grizzlies 30.5
San Antonio Spurs 29.5
Sacramento Kings 27.5
Minnesota Timberwolves 28.5
Oklahoma City Thunder 22.5


EAST


Milwaukee Bucks 49.5
Boston Celtics 45.5
Brooklyn Nets 45.5
Philadelphia 76ers 45.5
Miami Heat 44.5
Toronto Raptors 41.5
Indiana Pacers 39.5
Atlanta Hawks 36.5
Washington Wizards 32.5
Orlando Magic 31.5
Chicago Bulls 30.5
Charlotte Hornets 25.5
Detroit Pistons 23.5
New York Knicks 22.5
Cleveland Cavaliers 22.5


*Westgate Las Vegas SuperBook
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 21, 2020, 01:29:02 PM
Do keep in mind it's a 72 game season.

I was looking at a few of those #'s thinking they are awfully low, time to put my money down.

Then it hit me.

so 22.5 is really like..normal 26? Feeling pretty good from what I've seen, I'll take the over too.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 21, 2020, 01:48:14 PM
I would start by taking Lakers and Bucks both over
Title: Stanley Cowell
Post by: chipstern on December 21, 2020, 03:06:25 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 21, 2020, 07:16:52 AM
Yo Chip, Stanley Cowell passed on.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/20/arts/music/stanley-cowell-dead.html
Let me know if you have any album/song recs from Cowell as a leader, which in all unknown to me.  I mostly just know his name and reputation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxoZ8GdOzAc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxoZ8GdOzAc)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJN-P-GFqOM&t=234s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJN-P-GFqOM&t=234s)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeQEIhUnWUQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeQEIhUnWUQ)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjkthK06lV4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjkthK06lV4)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMLnwtVHHNI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMLnwtVHHNI)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGSzzaCXB00 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGSzzaCXB00)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyooyIY8JTA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyooyIY8JTA)
Title: Stanley Cowell--ARE YOU REAL/Sunlight Shifting
Post by: chipstern on December 21, 2020, 03:22:53 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31ESlCtx2t8&list=RD31ESlCtx2t8&start_radio=1&t=0&fbclid=IwAR3Ls_lQ22JyS2JZbDrXliGTWtVgdFwUaew-8ykin4bHBcgbCzDkbj5EyY4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31ESlCtx2t8&list=RD31ESlCtx2t8&start_radio=1&t=0&fbclid=IwAR3Ls_lQ22JyS2JZbDrXliGTWtVgdFwUaew-8ykin4bHBcgbCzDkbj5EyY4)

(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/_FXs64cnHmlc/R9CCcM2YFfI/AAAAAAAABFs/CursmC8tyU4/s1600/stan+cowellps+004.jpg)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjSQTTV-0EY&list=RD31ESlCtx2t8&index=4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjSQTTV-0EY&list=RD31ESlCtx2t8&index=4)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 21, 2020, 07:08:52 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 21, 2020, 09:39:28 AM
I think Burks is too good a shooter to not have him in the starting lineup.

Noel and Mitch?  Don't care.

Glad you at least have Julius starting in this enactment  :)

If Thibs sees RJ as buff enough to be full time starting SF, I can see Burks with the starters over Bullock. It gives you a little more fluidity and playmaking.

I don’t know who would be more productive for a squad, Noel or Mitch at this point. I like being able to go from one to the other with some Obi & Julius small ball iterations sprinkled in.

Obi would have to beat Randle out to start at this point. I don’t think Obi can do this yet, or maybe ever, not because Obi is bad but because Randle is pretty good.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 21, 2020, 07:11:35 PM
No extension for Frank.

Qualifying offer for next season will be 8.3 mil if we want the right to match offers.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 21, 2020, 08:34:38 PM
And of course the better news - New Orleans decides to wait on Ball rather than give him 15-20 mil per

He will most likely get and decline the 14+ mil qualifier this summer and be available for us to try to grab.

(Let's hear all the NO - Quickley is better)
Title: Stanley Cowell [Founder Of Strat East Records]
Post by: chipstern on December 21, 2020, 09:09:53 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBdiSUlWso4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBdiSUlWso4)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 22, 2020, 10:41:30 AM
7.7 mil qualifying offer to keep the rights to DSJ

8.3 for Frank.

https://sports.yahoo.com/restricted-free-agency-look-those-231528373.html
Title: No? How About WHY?
Post by: chipstern on December 22, 2020, 10:50:12 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 21, 2020, 08:34:38 PM
And of course the better news - New Orleans decides to wait on Ball rather than give him 15-20 mil per

He will most likely get and decline the 14+ mil qualifier this summer and be available for us to try to grab.

(Let's hear all the NO - Quickley is better)

Over the course of three seasons...

Lonzo Ball

11.8 ppg
7.0 assists
6.1 rebounds
1.5 steals
2.7 turnovers

Nice

.390 FG%
.341 3PT%
.487 FT% [95-195]

Not So Nice

I am sure he will do better this season, but the Pelicans seem to be saying....NEXT STEP. 

And then in 2021 he will be a RFA.

So the response is not NO, or a suggestion based on 4 preseason games that Quickley is better but rather......

Is Lonzo better than....

Elfrid Payton
 
Over the course of six seasons...

11.0 ppg
6.6 assists
4.4 rebounds
1.3 steals
2.4 turnovers

.452 FG%
.289 3PT%
.625 FT% [589-943]

So, New Orleans not extending a qualifying offer to Lonzo.

Are we extending offers to Frank or Dennis?

Same conundrum.

What have we got. 

I certainly think Lonzo has evolved more than Frank or Dennis. 

But....ELFRID? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 22, 2020, 10:53:32 AM
Article on Thibs:
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/30545155/is-new-york-knicks-coach-tom-thibodeau-too-tough-toughest-job-sports

I wish they discussed his time in Minny more, as that's both the most recent version of Thibs coaching and somewhat similar to what he has in NYK.

KAT thought the environment was too martial for the young pups who needed to mature as well as learn NBA hoops.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 22, 2020, 11:03:59 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 22, 2020, 10:53:32 AM
Article on Thibs:
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/30545155/is-new-york-knicks-coach-tom-thibodeau-too-tough-toughest-job-sports

I wish they discussed his time in Minny more, as that's both the most recent version of Thibs coaching and somewhat similar to what he has in NYK.

KAT thought the environment was too martial for the young pups who needed to mature as well as learn NBA hoops.

KAT was not exactly a defensive stalwart, was he now? 

So, are we judging Thibs based upon KAT's perspective? 

Some players excell when challenged.  Others bristle. 

In 2017-2018, the Wolves had a winning record in their second season under Thibs, and KAT's 3-point% rose to .421% from .367 and his FT% rose to .858% from .832. 
Title: Isaac Okoro
Post by: chipstern on December 22, 2020, 11:07:52 AM
Okoro averaged 11.3 points on 53.8% shooting and 45.5% from deep to go with 2.3 assists, 1.8 rebounds and 1.3 steals in the preseason.
Title: CLICKBAIT [DailyKnicks]: Morons Are US
Post by: chipstern on December 22, 2020, 11:14:22 AM
This is clickbait.

The headline read THE KNICKS SHOULD TRADE FOR JAMES HARDEN.

OK, Red Auerbach, show us what you've got. 

Knicks Get: James Harden

Rockets Get: Julius Randle, RJ Barrett, Mitchell Robinson, Kevin Knox, Mavs 2021 1st Round Pick, Knicks 2022 & 2023 1st Round Picks, Knicks 2024 1st Round Pick (Top 10 Protected)

(https://gifopolis.com/?smd_process_download=1&download_id=3051)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 22, 2020, 11:53:40 AM
Hawks thoughts on cap space - interesting

“I said this to Travis: What’s the point of having all of this cap space if you don’t use it? That’s like looking at a fancy toy that you could never get your hands on. To me, using the cap space was building the cap space, positioning ourselves for this and not using it would have been the great frustration, and Travis certainly shared that view and did everything he could to make sure he used the cap space. We used every bit of that cap space. He did exactly what he was supposed to do, and I’m here with great confidence.” – via Chris Kirschner @ The Athletic
 Antony Ressler, Atlanta Hawks

Kind of like we did a year ago
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 22, 2020, 11:55:25 AM
Is Lonzo better than....

Elfrid Payton

Do you have EYES?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 22, 2020, 11:57:53 AM
So, New Orleans not extending a qualifying offer to Lonzo.


Yes, they will

And likely he takes it - and becomes unrestricted for '22-'23 - at which point - unfortunately - his game will be at the level where it wont be just NY and a couple other teams interested.

We want Ball to turn down the offer - so that we can make a massive offer NEXT year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 22, 2020, 12:16:35 PM
After virtually every player, coach and staff member kneeled for the national anthem in the bubble at the Walt Disney World Resort in Orlando, Florida, earlier this year, Silver said he expects the league to return to its policy of standing for the anthem. He did say that the league has continued dialogue with players on the subject, and while there won’t be punishments if people choose not to stand, if there are to be changes to that policy, they will be agreed upon by everyone. “There’s always been this notion that this league is bigger than one team, one player, one league office,” Silver said. “I think it’s why we’ve been so successful over the years, because we really do come together and work through in some cases very difficult issues. – via Tim Bontemps @ ESPN
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 22, 2020, 12:29:29 PM
KAT thought the environment was too martial for the young pups who needed to mature as well as learn NBA hoops.


Could be he is right, for what that Minny group was

Could also be that

- we have a group that will take to this coaching style better
- Thibs remains the same style coach but tweaks it based on what has happened with past teams, as the better coaches do.

Title: Re: CLICKBAIT [DailyKnicks]: Morons Are US
Post by: elephant on December 22, 2020, 01:22:13 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 22, 2020, 11:14:22 AM
This is clickbait.

The headline read THE KNICKS SHOULD TRADE FOR JAMES HARDEN.

OK, Red Auerbach, show us what you've got. 

Knicks Get: James Harden

Rockets Get: Julius Randle, RJ Barrett, Mitchell Robinson, Kevin Knox, Mavs 2021 1st Round Pick, Knicks 2022 & 2023 1st Round Picks, Knicks 2024 1st Round Pick (Top 10 Protected)

(https://gifopolis.com/?smd_process_download=1&download_id=3051)

Yeah, twisted and absurd.

I've seen articles just like this in the last few weeks (here's one, https://bit.ly/38rMyhN (https://bit.ly/38rMyhN)), and wondered, Do people actually make any dough writing this shit?

BTW, I've got no problem with Harden playing for the Knicks...with a way more reasonable trade. And yeah, that won't happen. But I can't understand why a team like the Miami Heat would EVER consider bringing Harden in. They've got something so good going on there. I saw them play the Knicks last year in Miami and was blown away by the young talent. So I was surprised that they were even looking seriously in that direction. Now apparently they're moving on.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 22, 2020, 01:42:56 PM
Adding Harden just for picks and salary matches wouldnt help the Heat?

You're daft.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 22, 2020, 01:53:42 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 22, 2020, 01:42:56 PM
Adding Harden just for picks and salary matches wouldnt help the Heat?

You're daft.

Perhaps I misunderstand you.

Salary matches are human beings, are they not? You know, basketball players?

Which are the ones you would have the Heat give up to get Harden?
Title: Re: Isaac Okoro
Post by: facilitatorn on December 22, 2020, 02:21:32 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 22, 2020, 11:07:52 AM
Okoro averaged 11.3 points on 53.8% shooting and 45.5% from deep to go with 2.3 assists, 1.8 rebounds and 1.3 steals in the preseason.

He’ll be a very solid SG. Cleveland’s roster is going to have him getting whomped at the SF more minutes than it probably should due to lack of better options.

Lonzo is a 7 or 8 mil pg right now. If he busts ass through this year and next, he could do well for himself in the subsequent offseason as a UFA. He could make it interesting this year depending on the role he takes with this group of Pels.

It’s surprisingly refreshing to see your posts, elephant.
Title: Re: CLICKBAIT [DailyKnicks]: Morons Are US
Post by: FWK00 on December 22, 2020, 02:27:44 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 22, 2020, 11:14:22 AM
This is clickbait.

The headline read THE KNICKS SHOULD TRADE FOR JAMES HARDEN.

OK, Red Auerbach, show us what you've got. 

Knicks Get: James Harden

Rockets Get: Julius Randle, RJ Barrett, Mitchell Robinson, Kevin Knox, Mavs 2021 1st Round Pick, Knicks 2022 & 2023 1st Round Picks, Knicks 2024 1st Round Pick (Top 10 Protected)

(https://gifopolis.com/?smd_process_download=1&download_id=3051)

That photo was taken in a moment of weakness.

Chip, yes, that trade is cringe-worthy stuff.

However, I don't think its unrealistic to consider Hardon in the Gardon.

Harden wouldn't come cheap so there's going to be a bite taken out of some stan's man.

We've talked about this privately but if New York suddenly became home to two NBA mega-teams in proximity to Philly's powerhouse, the area would go radioactive.  It would be something akin to a new, metaphorical Twin Towers.

I'd be okay more along the lines of Randle, Bullock, Knox, MR, and the Mavs first-rounders for Harden and Kenyon Martin, Jr
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 22, 2020, 02:30:54 PM
Harden isn’t washed up enough yet for MSG. Let some other franchise enjoy him for a while first.
Title: Who You Gonna Believe? Kiid Or Your Eyes
Post by: chipstern on December 22, 2020, 02:38:17 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 22, 2020, 11:55:25 AM
Is Lonzo better than....

Elfrid Payton

Do you have EYES?

(https://i.etsystatic.com/20908186/r/il/ded1f5/2133545320/il_300x300.2133545320_q3sg.jpg)

So...

The Stats are irrelevant, eh? 

And the Celtics blew it when they passed on Fultz and Ball to take Tatum.

Heh. 

Title: Re: Who You Gonna Believe? Kiid Or Your Eyes
Post by: FWK00 on December 22, 2020, 02:41:26 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 22, 2020, 02:38:17 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 22, 2020, 11:55:25 AM
Is Lonzo better than....

Elfrid Payton

Do you have EYES?

(https://i.etsystatic.com/20908186/r/il/ded1f5/2133545320/il_300x300.2133545320_q3sg.jpg)

So...

The Stats are irrelevant, eh? 

And the Celtics blew it when they passed on Fultz and Ball to take Tatum.

Heh.

Lonzo will have trouble finding a home now that the Knicks have 15 PG candidates.
Title: Re: Who You Gonna Believe? Kiid Or Your Eyes
Post by: chipstern on December 22, 2020, 02:53:25 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on December 22, 2020, 02:41:26 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 22, 2020, 02:38:17 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 22, 2020, 11:55:25 AM
Is Lonzo better than....

Elfrid Payton

Do you have EYES?

(https://i.etsystatic.com/20908186/r/il/ded1f5/2133545320/il_300x300.2133545320_q3sg.jpg)

So...

The Stats are irrelevant, eh? 

And the Celtics blew it when they passed on Fultz and Ball to take Tatum.

Heh.

Lonzo will have trouble finding a home now that the Knicks have 15 PG candidates.

Lonzo is a fine defender and facilitator, and has improved his 3 point shooting. 

But his overall shooting is still rather dicey, he does not get to the FT line nearly enough, and when he does, his rate of conversion is dismal. 

Kiid was an enthusiast before he even laced up for the Lakers, and used to regularly excoriate Ainge for passing on him to take Tatum. 

He is making progress, and this year should be a good tell, as NO has a good coach and a good mix of youth and vet depth. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 22, 2020, 03:01:29 PM
The Stats are irrelevant, eh?


I like Elfrid Payton

I think moving forward you clearly take Ball.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 22, 2020, 03:03:49 PM
And the Celtics blew it when they passed on Fultz and Ball to take Tatum.


Yes.

BALL was the pick

What do you think Celts do if Lakers take Tatum?



 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 22, 2020, 06:06:09 PM
Can't believe you'd get Harden without including at least one prime Knick asset -- likely a NYK 1st.
Otherwise RJB (or Toppings, but since Randle would go for salary, it doesn't make sense to move Julius & ObiT).

(I don't want Harden)

I'd like to see a good post-mortem on Thibs time in Mini.
Some talent, some underperforming.
I never got a good feel for what was going on there. 

Recent rooks, Okogie and Culver, look interesting but coming along slowly.
Looks like they are going to have to try to outscore folks this year.
KAT & Tangelo might prove the downside of friends pairing up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 22, 2020, 06:57:08 PM
Thibs never coached Culver.  Had to play Okogie at 20 due to injuries

The one pretty good healthy team he had there won 47 games, losing to Rockets in first round.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 22, 2020, 07:59:28 PM
Bringing in Butler got them in to the playoffs, but then he was hobbled during the playoffs and they went out meekly.  Then Butler forced his way out.

Thibs was criticized for his over-reliance on vets and ex-Bulls:
Quote
His loyalty to his former players — Butler, Derrick Rose, and Taj Gibson — sapped Minnesota of young assets such as Dunn and LaVine and marginalized other young rotation players.
He also brought in Deng.

This article argues that Thibs once innovative strong-side wall-off-the-paint defense has become outmoded against small-ball and stretch Bigs.  Often leaving weak side 3's open, and requiring smart defenders to read and react.  This writer thought Minny didn't have the personnel to execute such a scheme, and questions the scheme in today's NBA:
https://www.canishoopus.com/2018/10/10/17955396/a-look-at-how-tom-thibodeaus-defensive-scheme-holds-the-timberwolves-back-nba


Also thinks the strong side, protect the paint system can lead to ball-watching and poor court awareness, the kind of sins Knox is often guilty of.

Some things to keep an eye on.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 22, 2020, 09:29:58 PM
Quote
Thibodeau often has little regard for those above him on the masthead, and there have been incidents over the last two seasons where Taylor believed Thibodeau was dismissive of him.

Quote
...Thibodeau’s strained relationship with the business side of the Timberwolves' operations. Putting aside the fact that no one should be remotely surprised that Thibodeau—who was barely on speaking terms with Bulls brass toward the end of his run in Chicago—doesn’t play well with others ...

https://www.si.com/nba/2019/01/07/tom-thibodeau-fired-timberwolves-bulls-glen-taylor-jimmy-butler

A do it my way presence who often disdains the bosses, and has a possibly outmoded system that doesn't fit these players.
Squint and it has the makings of Phil 2.0

We'll see how flexible Thibs is, how well he develops youth vs. over-relies on vets, and how long it'll take before he rubs Dolan and Knick brass the wrong way.

I still think Thibs is the coach you bring in 3 or 4 years from now after you lay a solid foundation and have things on the right track and just need it whipped into shape.  (akin to Reilly taking over a solid but underperforming Knix team)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 23, 2020, 04:00:35 AM
Compelling
Title: The Invasion Of The Negative Nancy Snatchers
Post by: chipstern on December 23, 2020, 08:17:05 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 22, 2020, 09:29:58 PM
Quote
Thibodeau often has little regard for those above him on the masthead, and there have been incidents over the last two seasons where Taylor believed Thibodeau was dismissive of him.

Quote
...Thibodeau’s strained relationship with the business side of the Timberwolves' operations. Putting aside the fact that no one should be remotely surprised that Thibodeau—who was barely on speaking terms with Bulls brass toward the end of his run in Chicago—doesn’t play well with others ...

https://www.si.com/nba/2019/01/07/tom-thibodeau-fired-timberwolves-bulls-glen-taylor-jimmy-butler

A do it my way presence who often disdains the bosses, and has a possibly outmoded system that doesn't fit these players.
Squint and it has the makings of Phil 2.0

We'll see how flexible Thibs is, how well he develops youth vs. over-relies on vets, and how long it'll take before he rubs Dolan and Knick brass the wrong way.

I still think Thibs is the coach you bring in 3 or 4 years from now after you lay a solid foundation and have things on the right track and just need it whipped into shape.  (akin to Reilly taking over a solid but underperforming Knix team)

WTF?

Having disdained our draft and free agency, nothing to do but suggest the coach hire was a mistake. 

Sweet merciful....

This is really....

[ReBOOT]

Have some egg nog or better yet, some gg foo young, and have a safe and peaceful XMAS.
Title: Meanwhile, Back On Planet Earth
Post by: chipstern on December 23, 2020, 08:32:07 AM
Ladies & Gentlemen

Your Brooklyn Nets

If we get mauled by the Nyets this season, it won't be because the game has passed Thibs by or his rotations or a reliance on Vets....

It is because we are simply outgunned. 

That was absolutely terrifying. 

Irving was utterly dominant, and Durant reminded me very much of Kevin Durant. 

Their centerl platoon of Jordan and Allen was good for 18 rebounds. 

Their snipers Harris and LaVert [Shamet was a little off] were deadly, and until they called off the hounds in the fourth, they were basically draining threes at a 50% clip. 

They also played some D.  Held the Warriors to 37% Shooting. 

I suspect they are not going to pursue that Harden fellow and gut this team. 

Interesting to see Nash function as the Chairman Of The Board, and the Nyets run a non-small ball offense, but with plenty of D'Antoni tune and tempo. 

If and when we get past Saadaam Trump's 12 Plagues Of QAnon, and get people back in the house, the Barclays will be rocking. 

Remember when the Mets were suddenly the toast of NYC and the Yankees were exiled in Elba?

Thibs has a lot of work to do. 
Title: High I Q
Post by: chipstern on December 23, 2020, 08:39:35 AM
Immanuel has mentioned at times how he has modeled some aspects of his game on Lou Williams, CJ McCollum and Avery Bradley. 

“Those guys can play point guard or off the ball; create, shoot and help the team in a multitude of ways.”

Check. 

Lou just turned 34 and he is still DEADLY. 

PS: Paul George looked like a man on a mission against the Lakers. 

Title: Re: Meanwhile, Back On Planet Earth
Post by: FWK00 on December 23, 2020, 12:58:34 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 23, 2020, 08:32:07 AM
Ladies & Gentlemen

Your Brooklyn Nets

If we get mauled by the Nyets this season, it won't be because the game has passed Thibs by or his rotations or a reliance on Vets....

It is because we are simply outgunned. 

That was absolutely terrifying. 

Irving was utterly dominant, and Durant reminded me very much of Kevin Durant. 

Their centerl platoon of Jordan and Allen was good for 18 rebounds. 

Their snipers Harris and LaVert [Shamet was a little off] were deadly, and until they called off the hounds in the fourth, they were basically draining threes at a 50% clip. 

They also played some D.  Held the Warriors to 37% Shooting. 

I suspect they are not going to pursue that Harden fellow and gut this team. 

Interesting to see Nash function as the Chairman Of The Board, and the Nyets run a non-small ball offense, but with plenty of D'Antoni tune and tempo. 

If and when we get past Saadaam Trump's 12 Plagues Of QAnon, and get people back in the house, the Barclays will be rocking. 

Remember when the Mets were suddenly the toast of NYC and the Yankees were exiled in Elba?

Thibs has a lot of work to do.

The Nets is a game where you have to consider starting Frankie somewhere with Kyrie as his defensive assignment.
Title: Re: Meanwhile, Back On Planet Earth
Post by: lesterluv on December 23, 2020, 01:39:24 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 23, 2020, 08:32:07 AM

If and when we get past Saadaam Trump's 12 Plagues Of QAnon, and get people back in the house, the Barclays will be rocking. 
 

Yeah, I would definitely take the short walk from my apartment to eyeball that once or twice a season, in a normal season.

Luckily, vax and sane leadership on the way, with luck we'll have actual butts-in-seats in both NYC arenas come spring.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: josh on December 23, 2020, 03:16:41 PM
Thank you for the reports, FWK00.

~Josh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jerrya on December 23, 2020, 04:03:22 PM
Expected Lineup 12/ 23

PG Elfrid Payton
SG Alec Burks
SF RJ Barrett
PF Julius Randle
C Nerlens Noel (MAY NOT PLAY)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 23, 2020, 04:35:41 PM
Expected Lineup:

Vet Journeyman
Vet Journeyman
Yute
Vet
Vet Journeyman
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 23, 2020, 04:59:44 PM
I want IQ to start.  He can create for others and shoot the ball which is a combination not found in our other options.

BUT

Starting a rookie over an incumbent veteran is always a tricky maneuver in the locker room.
There needs to be some event... be it injury or losing streak that allows Thibs to make it seem like his hand was forced to make the change.

I can see the rationale to start Elfrid... at least for a little while.

But i will expect that at some point soon IQ will supplant him.
Title: "that allows", lol, Coach doesn't need an allowance
Post by: lesterluv on December 23, 2020, 05:11:22 PM
lol, Thibs doesn't need some tricky maneuver to jettison the Elf from the starting lineup.

We're not talking Stockton or Magic here. The guy is barely hanging in the league on a four buck contract signed 10 minutes ago. "Led" his squad to how many wins last year?

Thibs will do whatever he wants to do whenever he wants to do it without breaking a bead of sweat.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 23, 2020, 05:59:55 PM
Payton won the job

Will we see Quickley early is the only question
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jerrya on December 23, 2020, 06:08:13 PM
I wouldn't object for Payton starting for now being a vet and not putting Quickley under immediate pressure but I don't agree he won the  job.  Quickley looked pretty good out there.
Title: Your Covid-19 Update
Post by: lesterluv on December 23, 2020, 06:13:31 PM
Despite kiid's heartfelt worries, homeless people are doing much better on the COVID front than Republicans.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/23/us/coronavirus-homeless.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/23/us/coronavirus-homeless.html)

Or James Harden. The Rockets will not be playing tonight.

https://sports.yahoo.com/nba-postpones-rockets-thunder-season-opener-after-covid-19-contact-tracing-222835193.html (https://sports.yahoo.com/nba-postpones-rockets-thunder-season-opener-after-covid-19-contact-tracing-222835193.html)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 23, 2020, 06:51:51 PM
Quote from: Jerrya on December 23, 2020, 06:08:13 PM
I wouldn't object for Payton starting for now being a vet and not putting Quickley under immediate pressure but I don't agree he won the  job.  Quickley looked pretty good out there.

Payton won it in Game 1.  And likely in practices.

Quickley hadn't even played vs Pistons as EP sizzled
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 23, 2020, 06:53:05 PM
Harden doing his BLACK LIVES DONT MATTER act
Title: Re: "that allows", lol, Coach doesn't need an allowance
Post by: Kam on December 23, 2020, 07:12:07 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on December 23, 2020, 05:11:22 PM
lol, Thibs doesn't need some tricky maneuver to jettison the Elf from the starting lineup.

We're not talking Stockton or Magic here. The guy is barely hanging in the league on a four buck contract signed 10 minutes ago. "Led" his squad to how many wins last year?

Thibs will do whatever he wants to do whenever he wants to do it without breaking a bead of sweat.


And yet...he started Payton like I expected.   

And yes,  there will be a catalytic event...   maybe in practice, maybe in a game .... that will ALLOW Thibs to make a change that faces the least resistance.

No tricky maneuver.  It could be poor play by Payton.  It could be a comeback victory led by IQ.   Could be an injury.  Could just be hard work in practice.

Coaches can't just do whatever the hell they want whenever they want..   ...  See Fizdale starting RJ at PG.  How'd that work out?
They have freedom like a chess piece.  They can make moves when opportunities arise.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 23, 2020, 08:59:36 PM
Frank just doesnt see things...

Second unit getting cooked.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on December 23, 2020, 10:21:57 PM
Celts-Buck helluva game

refs almost bailed out Bucks with ticky-tack BS call

but justice prevailed-BDL 

if TT and Teague can blend and contribute as well as they did tonight, they this team could be pretty, pretty pretty, good.
Title: Re: "that allows", lol, Coach doesn't need an allowance
Post by: lesterluv on December 23, 2020, 11:10:06 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 23, 2020, 07:12:07 PM

And yet...he started Payton like I expected.   

And yes,  there will be a catalytic event...   maybe in practice, maybe in a game .... that will ALLOW Thibs to make a change that faces the least resistance.


"And yet...he started Payton like I expected."

Like everyone expected you blithering idiot.

That doesn't change the essential wrongness of your point.

No, Thibs needs no EVENT, no MANEUVER, no nothing...nothing more than the turnover plagued eyeball hurting mediocrity we witnessed tonight.

Inspiring first half from the crew until it went wrong in the second. Looking forward to more of that first half stuff. RJ BARRRRRRRRRRRRRRETT


***lol, can't believe you are ref'ing FuckDale as a coach....lol lol lol, Fizwhale, as an exemplar for used car salesmen maybe...

***lol, lol, lol, ALLOW THIBS...MY FAT ASS ALLOW THIBS...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 23, 2020, 11:10:29 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 23, 2020, 06:53:05 PM
Harden doing his BLACK LIVES DONT MATTER act

That was funny!
Title: Les
Post by: carlos123 on December 24, 2020, 12:40:11 AM
Hey Les,

Why don’t you talk to prawns? 🦐

They’re very lonely without your conversation.
Title: Re: "that allows", lol, Coach doesn't need an allowance
Post by: Kam on December 24, 2020, 01:19:21 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on December 23, 2020, 11:10:06 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 23, 2020, 07:12:07 PM

And yet...he started Payton like I expected.   

And yes,  there will be a catalytic event...   maybe in practice, maybe in a game .... that will ALLOW Thibs to make a change that faces the least resistance.


"And yet...he started Payton like I expected."

Like everyone expected you blithering idiot.

Many were calling for him to start IQ.   My point is, that's not what a real coach would do.  You don't start the rookie on game 1.  Not unless he was the annointed draft pick like RJ was.  IQ will learn from the vets and start at some point soon.  It's going to happen this season and the only question is by what date?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on December 24, 2020, 02:56:28 AM
Good for a half; Barrett, Randle, and Burks can play in the NBA. Limited bench and another burnt out legend at coach. Timely to listen to the spirit of Red Holtzman from xmas past. Sell the team, moron. Happy holiday long sufferings.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 24, 2020, 05:37:56 AM
Barrett, Randle, Burks, Quickley.

We got a solid as whopping from what is likely a top six team in the conference who were one hip pointer away from losing their home opener.

Payton was a huge mess.

Frank moved well, had some nice feeds to Noel that got discombobulated on their way to the rim, and picked up phantom fouls. He needs to get woven in more so he can find a groove.

Knox and Toppin looked like promising young pups.

RJ looks 3/4 of the way there.

Reggie was a scratch. Definitely behind Burks in the pecking order.

Dallas lost. I will be happy every time that happens this year. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 24, 2020, 08:12:05 AM
Sabonis with about 13 points and 3 floor burns in the 1Q.  Looking sharp.  Also tagged 2 fouls on Mitch and baited Nawlins into a dumb one.

TJ "Rabbit" Warren playing terrible D and leaving Bullox open plenty (plus a backdoor cut).

Have I mentioned lately that Brogdon is my favorite NBA player?  Really schooling Elf.  Knix with a lot of early turnovers, which have really been good Pacer steals, by The Frog and Oladip.

RJB keeping Knix in it, along with Bullox 3's.
Worrisome sign: Randle has adopted the old E-City hairdo.  Why you want to be a chunky guy in a Knix uni looking like Curry, I have no idea.

Knix with a good 2Q.
Toppings and Knox not doing well 1st half.
Randle kind of messy shooting but has drawn IND into the paint and passed out to open shooters who are knocking down 3's.  Knix knocking down 3's!
Bullox and Burks.

Noel and Mitch foul trouble gave us some Julius-ObiT pairing.
Not much D as expected.  Randle could get down court faster.

3Q
Oladipo owning the 3Q.
Randle gets his 4th foul.  Knix Bigs fouling a lot.
Wondering why IND is sticking with TJ, when he's struggling.  And Dougie looked real good and active.
Knix transition D has been porous.

Not a big fan of Quinn Buckner's commentary, but I like his Clean It Up! call as Myles Turner comes over to swat.

4Q
TJ McConman having a nice game.
Seemed like the Knix stopped scoring when Franc & Knox came on.
Randle improved his stat line by scoring 6 points in garbage time.
Sure filled the statsheet.  Who would have thought Randle would start the season with a near triple-dub.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 24, 2020, 08:21:41 AM
Mostly a fun game v. a superior team.
Sabonis dominated and had a career high in points.
Boarded and passed well too.
With all of his activity inside, I was surprised when Sabonis picked up his 1st foul a couple minutes into the 4Q.

MyTurn wasn't far from a trip-dub in 29 minutes.
Tied his career high with 8 blocks.  Very effective, except for missing all of his 3's.

IND had a tough time shooting 3's.  IND bench 2-15 on triples.  But if you notice they all spot up 3 feet behind the arc.  I hate that.  Oladipo can make 25 footers.  Rest of the team should be closer to the line.  McDoug was 5-6 at the rim (2 dunks and 3 layups and once blocked by Knox); and 0-6 on 3's.  Odd.  But he was cutting and moving.  Flew in a for a dunk rebound early while RJB was standing flatfooted not boxing out.
Q: Is Kennard really much better than McDermott?

Hope Quickly is okay.
It didn't look like much, but looked like a back tweak which can vary a lot.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 24, 2020, 08:37:31 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 24, 2020, 05:37:56 AM
Knox and Toppin looked like promising young pups.

Really?
I thought Knox was kind of a train wreck.
He was aggressive, but for naught.
1-4 FG before a last minute  drive and slam down 16.
Knox was awful on D with some bad fouls.
Did stick with McDoug blocked one drive.  But let's see him do that on a quick driver.

I thought ObiT had a pretty quiet outing.  Hit 3-7 on 3's, but one of those was an accidental banker.  Had another airball 3, and I think another 3 hit the backboard first.  His corner 3's seemed the most reliable.  Had a nice end of the half help block (that might have been goaltending).  His lone assist was a nice transition feed, which was nearly picked off by the Frog, and barely squeezed through two players.

I don't really recall his D or Boarding.  partly because my video feed was smallish while the IND announcers frequently failed to note which Knix did what.  Sabonis beat ObiT in transition once, but Randle jogged back, leaving that matchup  to ObiT.

Knix wings scored well, but the transition D of RJB, Bullox and Burks (and Elf) was poor all game.

I was amused that in the middle of the very first Knick possession, Thibs pulled off his mask to shout at his players and the refs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 24, 2020, 09:44:17 AM
Back to backs for Knicks Sat/Sun

If Quicks isnt back, DSJ very likely gets his opportunity.

Fac - Frank was AWFUL.  Just affected the game positively in no way whatsoever.  Beaten like a rented mule on backdoor cut by McD.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 24, 2020, 09:47:38 AM
Barrett did play about 7/8 minutes at the PG last night.  Thibs may not just hand out minutes (Frank, Dennis, etc) due to injuries.  We'll see.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jerrya on December 24, 2020, 09:52:27 AM
This shows how important a good PG is in today. Quickly came in and the team went on a rampage,  went out and the team looked like   garbage. Payton played awful on both ends of the floor.

I’m not saying he’s a superstar, but he knows how to run a team and that’s something we’ve been missing for a long time.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 24, 2020, 10:19:22 AM
lol, Elf was awful, Frank was pretty bad, RJB wasn't very good (at PG), fully expect DSJ to be horrid if he gets any burn.
Thibs has his work cut out 'til IQ comes back. Nonetheless, very impressive job by him so far. Good things coming. No doubt.

Kinda reminds me of the Eddie Lee Wilkins situation back in '84. Eddie comes out with a mind-boggling, Garden-rocking debut, immediately gets injured. (never the same after, don't think the IQ situation ends similarly)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on December 24, 2020, 02:15:09 PM
Merry Christmas everyone.

Or, to quote James Harden, "Ho, Ho, Ho."
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 24, 2020, 06:17:54 PM
Quote from: Jerrya on December 24, 2020, 09:52:27 AM
This shows how important a good PG is in today. Quickly came in and the team went on a rampage,  went out and the team looked like   garbage. Payton played awful on both ends of the floor.

I’m not saying he’s a superstar, but he knows how to run a team and that’s something we’ve been missing for a long time.

The Knicks scored SIXTY SIX FUCKING FIRST HALF POINTS, most with Elfrid Payton

Yes, Quicks was a +5 as he avoided the Indiana halftime defensive adjustments.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 24, 2020, 06:19:17 PM
Quote from: Jerrya on December 24, 2020, 09:52:27 AM
This shows how important a good PG is in today. Quickly came in and the team went on a rampage,  went out and the team looked like   garbage. Payton played awful on both ends of the floor.

I’m not saying he’s a superstar, but he knows how to run a team and that’s something we’ve been missing for a long time.

You know Quickley wasn't the Ky point guard, right?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 24, 2020, 06:51:59 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 24, 2020, 06:17:54 PM
Quote from: Jerrya on December 24, 2020, 09:52:27 AM
This shows how important a good PG is in today. Quickly came in and the team went on a rampage,  went out and the team looked like   garbage. Payton played awful on both ends of the floor.

I’m not saying he’s a superstar, but he knows how to run a team and that’s something we’ve been missing for a long time.

The Knicks scored SIXTY SIX FUCKING FIRST HALF POINTS, most with Elfrid Payton

Yes, Quicks was a +5 as he avoided the Indiana halftime defensive adjustments.

lol, lol, Elf was pure trash..except to demon sperm drinkers.

Next, tell me the guy on the right is still alive.

(https://www.publicradiotulsa.org/sites/kwgs/files/styles/medium/public/202007/EeMe7DFWkAATitM.jpeg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 24, 2020, 11:38:50 PM
lol, lol, Elf was pure trash..


Second half,  like all of them
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 25, 2020, 10:18:14 AM
IND announcers mentioned that the team returned 13 of last year's 15 players.
Continuity.

TJ Leaf was dropped (traded to OKC for a 2nd rounder, then waived by OKC).
I didn't know he was Israeli.
Was the #18 pick and the next 5 picks were:
John Collins, Harry Giles, Onunoby, T Ferguson, Jarrett Allen.
Kuzma and Derrick White also were on board.
Oops.

Looks like Knix have 9 returnees.
Interestingly, Thibs started 5 guys who were all on the team last year.
Maybe acknowledging the abbreviated practice and pre-season and hoping for chemistry by using guys who played together last year.
With that starting 5, our entire 2nd unit is new except for Knox.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 25, 2020, 10:26:16 AM
CELTICS, BLAZERS added to Garden's list of teams he would agree to join.

You're up, Ainge.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on December 25, 2020, 10:51:23 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 25, 2020, 10:26:16 AM
CELTICS, BLAZERS added to Garden's list of teams he would agree to join.

You're up, Ainge.

As posted on another site

Quote from: bankshot1, post: 4213991, member: 9

Pass-he is just about my least favorite NBA super-duper star.

While surely a unique talent, he seems to define the antithesis of what Celtics basketball is, or what I've learned to believe it is over the past 60 years.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 25, 2020, 12:03:24 PM
First game box

https://www.landofbasketball.com/box_scores/2020/1223NYKIND.htm

From a new website....(or new to me anyway)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 25, 2020, 12:07:32 PM
Celtics have had plenty of dicks play for them.

On court Harden is all team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 25, 2020, 12:27:33 PM
Knicks with three stat studs

They need the rest of the team to each be good in SOME categories.

Barrett - 26, 8 and 5
Julius - 17, 9 and 9
Burks - 22, 4 and 3

Interesting that vs Pacers the opponent's bench actually shot abysmally (12-29, 2-15).  Knicks were better from 3 off the pine - and not bad percentage wise overall - .459, .429, .739. 

Great offensive first half meant this was not a road blowout.  And Thibs is right - Julius leaving with his 4th foul changed everything.  Toppin's job is to assure this is not so.  Thus far he is a poor pick.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 25, 2020, 12:36:08 PM
Just picked up the D Rose book (13 bucks in Target) - usually give myself 1 on Christmas each year

Time with Thibs of course will be a big part of it - as well as his thoughts on playing in NY and the personnel on and off court we had at the time.

Fitst bit I read was how Rose had never played for anyone like Thibs in terms of necessary accountability and intensity.

Will relate more down the road.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on December 25, 2020, 12:45:31 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 25, 2020, 12:07:32 PM
Celtics have had plenty of dicks play for them.

On court Harden is all team.

Your interest in other's dicks is noted.

But putting your penis envy aside,

I'm not interested in Harden joining the Celts.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 25, 2020, 01:48:06 PM
Celts will surely have it on their agenda.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 25, 2020, 03:33:52 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 25, 2020, 12:27:33 PM
Thus far he is a poor pick.

Jesus,
Thus far he played one NBA game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on December 25, 2020, 03:37:07 PM
KC Jones passed

one of the greatest NBA defensive players ever

always drew the toughest guard

RIP #25
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 25, 2020, 03:43:32 PM
Julius had a rough shooting go of it.
Until he padded his stats with 3 late buckets during garbage time.
He was a very willing passer, but also had 5 TO's.
His defense was iffy at times too.
He was involved in a lot, both good and bad for the Knix.

Ainge is usually patient and tries to get good chemistry guys and 2-way players.
I'm still not sure why he didn't want My Turner.
The last time Ainge went for talent over team/reliability was the Kyrie fiasco.
Why would he want to replay that?
And what would BOS have to give up to do such a deal?
I assume Smart would go, along with some of their yute.
What would a deal look like?
I think BOS would be nuts to do it, even before Harden started to act like a jerk.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on December 25, 2020, 03:53:40 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 25, 2020, 01:48:06 PM
Celts will surely have it on their agenda.

Talk is cheap. And Ainge can get a read on teams. So talk.

But the rumored packages I seen (Brown, Smart, draft picks) are IMO huge overpays for 2 years of headache Harden. He's not a good fit. I don't want him.

Nor is it up to Ainge to bust up his young team to solve Houston's problems, unless there's a really big discount, or I can move Kemba in the deal.

I can't see the Celt's having a real interest in Harden on terms as rumored so far.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 25, 2020, 04:32:28 PM
Kyrie fiasco?

He was excellent for Boston.

GIANNIS and his 60-win Bucks took them down as KI had a poor shooting series but it wouldnt have mattered anyway.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 25, 2020, 04:50:05 PM
I assume Smart would go, along with some of their yute.
What would a deal look like?
I think BOS would be nuts to do it, even before Harden started to act like a jerk.

Looks to me like it would be Walker


   
Player   Age   2020-21   2021-22   2022-23   2023-24   2024-25   2025-26   Signed Using   Guaranteed
Kemba Walker   30   $34,379,100   $36,016,200   $37,653,300            Sign and Trade   $70,395,300
Jaylen Brown   24   $22,991,071   $24,830,357   $26,669,643   $28,508,929         1st Round pick   $103,000,000
Marcus Smart   26   $13,446,428   $14,339,285               Bird Rights   $27,785,713
Jayson Tatum   22   $9,897,120   $28,103,550   $30,351,834   $32,600,118   $34,848,402   $37,096,686   1st Round Pick   $135,801,024
Tristan Thompson   29   $9,258,000   $9,720,900               MLE   $18,978,900
Daniel Theis   28   $5,000,000                  Early Bird Rights   
Romeo Langford   21   $3,631,200   $3,804,360   $5,634,257            1st Round Pick   $3,631,200
Aaron Nesmith   21   $3,458,400   $3,631,200   $3,804,360   $5,634,257         1st Round Pick   $7,089,600
Jeff Teague   32   $2,564,753                  Minimum Salary   $2,564,753
Grant Williams   22   $2,498,760   $2,617,800   $4,306,281            1st Round Pick   $2,498,760
Payton Pritchard   22   $2,035,800   $2,137,440   $2,239,200   $4,037,278         1st Round Pick   $4,173,240
Robert Williams   23   $2,029,920   $3,661,976               1st Round Pick   $2,029,920
Semi Ojeleye   26   $1,752,950                  Cap space   $1,752,950
Carsen Edwards   22   $1,517,981   $1,782,621   $1,930,681            Cap space   $3,300,602
Javonte Green   27   $1,517,981                  Minimum Salary   
Tacko Fall   25                      Two-Way Contract   
Tremont Waters   22                      Two-Way Contract   
Guerschon Yabusele   25   $1,039,080   $1,039,080                  $2,078,160
Demetrius Jackson   26   $92,857   $92,857   $92,857   $92,857            $371,428
Team Totals      $117,111,401   $131,777,626   $112,682,413   $70,873,439   $34,848,402   $37,096,686      $385,451,550
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 25, 2020, 05:08:56 PM
Tatum & Jaylen were held back.
Chemistry was bad.
No one liked playing with Kyrie.
Sure he gets numbers but also plays chump D and misses games.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on December 25, 2020, 05:20:16 PM
KI was not a fiasco, but mostly a prima donna pain in the ass, who was not the alpha leader he pretended to be.

Maybe they would have beaten LBJ's Cavs and gotten to the Finals, if he had not been MIA with clean-up the knee-surgery.

Maybe.

The real cost was the #8 pick the Nets pick) for 2 years of his neediness and bullshit.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 25, 2020, 05:31:34 PM
Celts unis are butt ugly
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 25, 2020, 05:39:43 PM
TEAGUE was a hell of a pickup for Celts

Hated that we didnt look at him more closely.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on December 25, 2020, 05:41:00 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 25, 2020, 05:31:34 PM
Celts unis are butt ugly

Kid we agree on something.

its supposed to be a "banner" tribute.

I like the old traditional home whites.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on December 25, 2020, 06:06:48 PM
Theis gets no ref respect at all.

He gets called for shit, I swear no other center gets called for.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 25, 2020, 06:35:17 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 25, 2020, 03:33:52 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 25, 2020, 12:27:33 PM
Thus far he is a poor pick.

Jesus,
Thus far he played one NBA game.

Kiid is just a lot smarter than all of us. 

Accept it on move on. 

PS: You might notice he has already begun his narrative as to how Quickley is way way overrated by Forum Geeks and Knicks fans. 
Title: Harden...Put It In The Bank
Post by: chipstern on December 25, 2020, 06:48:48 PM
There is no way Ainge would trade for Haden. 

He is NOT A CELTIC. 

Draft choices would not be a problem.

But trading the likes of Jaylen Brown and Marcus Smart? 

To completely tear apart team chemistry. 

Harden is a one on one ace. 

Celtics alreay have Tatum, who can play team OR play a hero. 

Brown is 24.  Harden is 31. 

Harden is fucking up the team he is contracually obligated to. 

FUCK HIM. 

He ain't a Celtic. 

BANK IT. 

PS: Kemba?  Why would the Rockets take Walker when the have Wall.  This ain't REAL GM. 
Title: Depth Charges
Post by: chipstern on December 25, 2020, 06:58:02 PM
Stefan Bondy: Immanuel Quickley (sore left hip) and Obi Toppin (sore right calf) are doubtful for tomorrow’s home opener against the Sixers, the Knicks say – via Twitter SBondyNYDN

IQ with a hip pointer. 

Not sure what is ailing Obi. 

Oh, well. 

We will see some Knox at the 4 situationally. 

No Spellman or Rivers. 
Title: KC JONES
Post by: chipstern on December 25, 2020, 07:00:16 PM
#25

A champ at every level. 

College.

Pros.

As a coach. 

Quiet Fire.  A Team Player. 

Born on May 25.

Passed on December 25. 

A peaceful journey, sir. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 25, 2020, 07:01:00 PM
We will see some Knox at the 4 situationally.


OK, thanks, Coach
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 25, 2020, 07:02:31 PM
Thus far he played one NBA game.


And will miss the next one

Achiuwa was a beast today.  Checked Giannis head up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 25, 2020, 07:04:46 PM
Harden is fucking up the team he is contracually obligated to.


Rockets are 0-0
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 25, 2020, 07:07:54 PM
PS: You might notice he has already begun his narrative as to how Quickley is way way overrated by Forum Geeks and Knicks fans.


Yet I like Quickley

Imagine that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 25, 2020, 07:10:27 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 25, 2020, 07:04:46 PM
Harden is fucking up the team he is contracually obligated to.


Rockets are 0-0

You ARE a GENIUS. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 25, 2020, 07:18:52 PM
I am.

But MAVEN works better here
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 25, 2020, 07:57:24 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 25, 2020, 07:18:52 PM
I am.

But MAVEN works better here

Points, Kiid.

DON RICKLES:  "You don't have to call me, sir.  King of all Jews will do." 
Title: The MAVEN, Nevermore
Post by: chipstern on December 25, 2020, 07:58:39 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 25, 2020, 07:57:24 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 25, 2020, 07:18:52 PM
I am.

But MAVEN works better here

Points, Kiid.

DON RICKLES:  "You don't have to call me, sir.  King of all Jews will do."

(https://i.imgur.com/sZ59gPY.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 26, 2020, 12:09:53 AM
Morey and Dantoni knew what kind of ish was about to go down (mostly courtesy of Harden) and bailed before they got sucked into it.

Toppings gonna miss a game with a sore calf?  Guy's probably a bust ...
Dylan Windler broke his hand in his 1st NBA game (2nd season).
Another lost season.

Julius Randle broke his leg in G1 of his career, missed an entire season.
Things happen. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 26, 2020, 09:57:00 AM
Yeah, tough break for Windler.  Good player.

So, shall we do tonight's minutes played projection?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 26, 2020, 10:05:42 AM

So.....

let me take a shot at this Knicks minutes thing for the opener

Randle - 36       35   
Barrett - 32       34
Payton - 28        22
Burks - 28         31
Noel - 23           9
Knox - 22          18
Robinson - 19        21
Toppin - 18           24
Quickley - 14       12
Bullock - 12      25
Smith Jr - 4          0
Ntlikina - 4           5
PINSON - 0           1



Not too bad projecting first game
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 26, 2020, 10:38:10 AM
Best stated I guess...

Who gets the Quickley and Toppin minutes?

Look for a straight  48 combined for Noel/Robinson

Iggy may get some run.  And Smith certainly.  Dennis may be in first quarter.
Title: Re: KC JONES
Post by: bankshot1 on December 26, 2020, 11:22:24 AM
Quote from: chipstern on December 25, 2020, 07:00:16 PM
#25

A champ at every level. 

College.

Pros.

As a coach. 

Quiet Fire.  A Team Player. 

Born on May 25.

Passed on December 25. 

A peaceful journey, sir.

KC seemed to carry himself with a quiet dignity. KC didn't need to be flashy or loud to attract attention, people saw his strength and responded to his decency. 

a couple of nice quotes

“K.C. was the nicest man I ever met, he always went out of his way to make people feel good; it was such an honor to play for him,” Bird said in a text message. “K.C. and I had so many wins together, including two championships, which remain highlights of my life. His accomplishments are too many to list, but, to me, his greatest accomplishment was being such an outstanding person to all who had the privilege of knowing him. I will miss him dearly.”


Russell once said, “Of all the men I know in life, K.C. is the one I would like one of my sons to be like.” Bird went him one better, perhaps, calling Mr. Jones “the kind of person I’d like to be, but I don’t have the time to work at it.”

As a Celtic fan watching the Celts play in their new "banner unis" its important and also sad to understand the reason they're wearing those jerseys, are because of guys like Havlicek, Heinsohn and KC.

and I won't mention the rest.

this fucking year can't end soon enough.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on December 26, 2020, 11:40:27 AM
Quote
PS: Kemba?  Why would the Rockets take Walker when the have Wall.  This ain't REAL GM.

They probably wouldn't

But having Harden and Kemba and a combined $75 million a year  (or whatever) for two ball-dominant guards makes no sense for the Celts. So unless a 3rd team is found to deal for an iffy Kemba ... Its just one more pretty big obstacles to thankfully complicate something I don't want to see happen.

I hope kemba returns mostly healthy in a month or so, and his minutes get managed with Teague and they have sufficient PG capabilities to move the fucking ball and create opportunities.

and they got the $28M TPE if something big becomes available over the next year.

I'm viewing the first month or so as extended pre-season, with the young guys getting lots of minutes, so Brad can see who can or can't play later on, when it matters.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 26, 2020, 12:08:28 PM
PS: Kemba?  Why would the Rockets take Walker when the have Wall.  This ain't REAL GM.

They probably wouldn't

Probably.....

But that is the deal that is there - and may still be a pretty good one for Houston.  YES - there are ways for that to work.  Its short-sighted to just think of how Wall-Walker would look on the court together for the length of their contracts.  What else are they getting?  What else could become of the Walker money?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 26, 2020, 12:10:51 PM
And any thought that Celtics would not be a BEAST with Harden replacing Walker is ridiculous.

Come on, man - that's your EAST CHAMP the next three years.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 26, 2020, 12:12:34 PM
Watching the Clippers - reminding me how DOC CANT COACH.

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 26, 2020, 12:22:40 PM
Well, you were off two starters.

We'll see if Thibs sticks with Bullox starting.
I preferred Bullox starting because he gives you better D than Burks, and Reg doesn't need the ball.  Burks is a gunner so can play the Craw role on the 2nd unit.  Burks with the starters means fewer shots for Randle, RJB, Mitch.

Would have been interesting if we drafted Halliburton.  Ty and Quicks would have transformed our whole backcourt.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on December 26, 2020, 12:37:01 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 26, 2020, 12:10:51 PM
And any thought that Celtics would not be a BEAST with Harden replacing Walker is ridiculous.

Come on, man - that's your EAST CHAMP the next three years.

HEH

you changed the trade parameters.

If I could get Harden for Walker, I'd throw in a pick or two and take my chances.

But that's not what the trade rumors are.

Reportedly it was Jaylen PLUS Smart PLUS picks.

HARD PASS ON REALITY

I mentioned Kemba to remind you of the Celtics position

But Kemba for Harden sure, that solves one problem, but I'd be exchanging injury risk for chemistry risk.

My fear is Harden could fuck-up the Js and team mojo.

I simply do not like his style of play and the fit wih the Celts and how they seem to mismatch.

offense and defense.

its not worth it to me,

kid-We view hoops differently, you approach it as fantasy sport with fantasy scoring.

Its a game I'm not familiar with.

FYI the market for Harden seem soft so maybe some lucky team gets a great deal for a 2 year Harden headache.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 26, 2020, 12:46:27 PM
Knicks PER leaders

Barrett - 28.3
Burks   23.1
Quickley - 17.4

Then it declines to Mitch at 12.0

Frank is a -4.1

Knox?  2.3
Payton?  0.6

Will update each game.

1   RJ Barrett   20   1   34   28.3   .819   .200   .133   0.0   25.1   12.5   30.1   0.0   0.0   5.9   21.4      0.2   0.0   0.2   .267               
2   Alec Burks   29   1   32   23.1   .689   .333   .750   0.0   13.3   6.7   15.0   1.4   2.5   5.9   22.9      0.1   0.0   0.1   .220               
3   Immanuel Quickley   21   1   12   17.4   .579   .333   1.000   0.0   8.9   4.4   11.4   3.8   0.0   0.0   15.6      0.0   0.0   0.0   .153               
4   Mitchell Robinson   22   1   21   12.0   .521   .000   1.000   10.2   20.3   15.2   0.0   0.0   11.4   0.0   5.9      0.0   0.0   0.0   .110               
5   Julius Randle   26   1   35   11.2   .507   .133   .267   3.0   24.4   13.7   42.0   0.0   0.0   23.0   26.9      0.0   0.0   0.0   -0.038               
6   Reggie Bullock   29   1   26   10.7   .550   .800   .000   0.0   4.1   2.1   11.7   1.7   0.0   0.0   16.6      0.0   0.0   0.0   .041               
7   Nerlens Noel   26   1   9   8.1   .500   .000   .000   11.9   23.7   17.8   15.8   5.0   8.9   50.0   19.2      0.0   0.0   0.0   -0.080               
8   Obi Toppin   22   1   24   6.2   .375   .583   .000   0.0   13.3   6.7   6.1   0.0   6.7   0.0   21.6      -0.1   0.0   -0.1   -0.124               
9   Kevin Knox   21   1   18   2.3   .368   .200   .200   0.0   17.8   8.9   0.0   5.0   4.4   26.9   17.9      -0.1   0.0   -0.1   -0.167               
10   Elfrid Payton   26   1   22   0.6   .500   .143   .000   4.8   4.8   4.8   20.2   2.1   0.0   41.7   23.6      -0.1   0.0   -0.1   -0.218               
11   Theo Pinson   25   1   1   0.0            0.0   0.0   0.0   0.0   0.0   0.0      0.0      0.0   0.0   0.0   -0.022               
12   Frank Ntilikina   22   1   5   -4.1   .174   .500   1.000   0.0   0.0   0.0   0.0   9.1   0.0   0.0   24.9      0.0   0.0   0
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 26, 2020, 12:49:47 PM

you changed the trade parameters

I didnt

CHIPSTERN said the deal was to trade Brown or Smart (he didnt like it for Celts), not me

If I could get Harden for Walker, I'd throw in a pick or two and take my chances.


attaboy
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 26, 2020, 12:50:19 PM
The Knix have $18.5M cap space.  Some combo of that plus vet salaries could facilitate a Harden to Celts deal and get Kemba for NYK.
Randle & Franc and $10M cap space matches Kemba's salary.
Plus Celts can dip into their trade exception if needed.
Uh, how hobbled is Kemba?

Say Randle, Franc and Smart and a pick to HOU
Kemba and a BOS Williams to NYK
Harden to BOS

BOS would have Teague - Harden - Jaylen - Tatum - Tristan
Celts aren't terribly deep.  A 3-for-1 deal would really thin them out.
(maybe they could get Franc)

Anyway the money works pretty closely.
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y72yxjha

For the Knix, give up Randle and Franc for Kemba and Robert Williams (I'd probably prefer Grant, but Celts already have 2 C's).  Knix get starting quality PG and a big bouncy yute.  Opens minutes for ObiT and Knox.  Kemba organizes our team when his knee cooperates -- Knix have Elf and Quickly to fill in.  What's not to like?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 26, 2020, 12:54:21 PM
Interesting, Bo - thanks

Celts fans say no because of Smart

Knicks fans dont like the (as you say) hobbled Kemba - though Thibs gets his "star".

Like that you threw in Williams.  The picks would tell the tale as far as HOU biting.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on December 26, 2020, 12:58:27 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 26, 2020, 12:49:47 PM

you changed the trade parameters

I didnt

CHIPSTERN said trade Brown or Smart, not me

If I could get Harden for Walker, I'd throw in a pick or two and take my chances.



attaboy

I keep on forgetting your fantasies go beyond sports predictions, as you seem to beleive your Elba's "MELVIN"

HEH

Yes Melvin you changed the parameters and backed away from the market reality of what Houston wants for Harden (Jaylen, + Smart ++++) and only suggested Walker, when I brought you back to reality.

And mentioned a 3rd team might be required to deal with Kemba.

Chip as best as I can tell understood the trade reality.

Now be a nice boy MELVIN and go play in the corner with the toys Santa brought.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 26, 2020, 01:10:50 PM
My trade could be tweaked somewhat.

If Kemba is fairly healthy, maybe Knix toss in a DAL pick.
BOS has a lot of picks I think.

Maybe Franc to BOS.
Bullox could be tossed in.  Jr. Smith too if anybody wanted him.

I'm not really good at assessing pick value and what kind of picks should be included in a trade.  But they can always balance/sweeten a deal.  Maybe a BOS pick to HOU, maybe also a DAL pick (from NYK)

HOU: Wall - Smart - Gordon - Randle - PJ Tucker
Franc - Wood - DMC off the bench
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 26, 2020, 01:59:11 PM
Yes Melvin you changed the parameters and backed away from the market reality of what Houston wants for Harden (Jaylen, + Smart ++++) and only suggested Walker, when I brought you back to reality.


I am not responsible for every Tom Dick and Bank on the internet.

My only proposal was with Walker - forgive me for creativity.  I was with Chip all the way (in thought - may not have posted) regarding Brown and of course Tatum being off limits (as of now I'd be unsure of Smart but figure BOS would give him up - just didnt like that his contract wasnt so high to offset)

I thought this discussion would come down to how many picks it would take but Bank preferred being a total prick.  His basic mode.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 26, 2020, 02:07:53 PM
If Kemba is fairly healthy, maybe Knix toss in a DAL pick.
BOS has a lot of picks I think

I will give Bank this - he can probably give us more on Walker's health.

My thinking is you arent out of the woods with him unless he comes back, plays for months long stretches and through playoffs as well.  Anything before that isa  complete roll of the dice, which is why I dont really even factor in his contributing for the Rockets,
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 26, 2020, 02:13:01 PM
Speaking of the Celtics, their fans got a nice glimpse yesterday of what they could hope Tatum ever would become - especially if they see him as lead dog - in KEVIN DURANT.

Kind of cool actually to project their matchups for the next three seasons.  Dog paddling for Jayson to start,
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on December 26, 2020, 02:51:15 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 26, 2020, 01:59:11 PM
Yes Melvin you changed the parameters and backed away from the market reality of what Houston wants for Harden (Jaylen, + Smart ++++) and only suggested Walker, when I brought you back to reality.



My only proposal was with Walker - forgive me for creativity.

I thought this discussion would come down to how many picks it would take but Bank preferred being a total prick.  His basic mode.

Creativity?

Melvin you weren't aware of the Kemba conundrum until it was pointed out to you.

And that a 3rd team might be needed to do a Harden to Celtics swap  because of kemba.

and your creativity was a Kemba for Harden trade?

TFF

And Chip basically repeated my concerns about a Harden-C's trade.
Quote from: bankshot1 on December 25, 2020, 03:53:40 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 25, 2020, 01:48:06 PM
Celts will surely have it on their agenda.

Talk is cheap. And Ainge can get a read on teams. So talk.

But the rumored packages I seen (Brown, Smart, draft picks) are IMO huge overpays for 2 years of headache Harden. He's not a good fit. I don't want him.

Nor is it up to Ainge to bust up his young team to solve Houston's problems, unless there's a really big discount, or I can move Kemba in the deal.

I can't see the Celt's having a real interest in Harden on terms as rumored so far.

But I'm glad you channeled your silent agreement.

While at the same time pushing for a trade that won't happen.

HEH

Melvin you're a funny guy.
Title: Gonzaga
Post by: Kam on December 26, 2020, 02:51:18 PM
Gonzaga #1 ranked NCAAM team.
Game today at 4pm eastern on CBS
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 26, 2020, 02:55:02 PM
Thanks Kam
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 26, 2020, 04:22:29 PM
KISPERT over Suggs
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 26, 2020, 04:24:59 PM
Gonna try to check out EDWARDS tonight on the free NBA League Pass.  Maybe Cole as well.
Title: Egg Fool Jung
Post by: chipstern on December 26, 2020, 06:41:27 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 26, 2020, 12:50:19 PM
The Knix have $18.5M cap space.  Some combo of that plus vet salaries could facilitate a Harden to Celts deal and get Kemba for NYK.
Randle & Franc and $10M cap space matches Kemba's salary.
Plus Celts can dip into their trade exception if needed.
Uh, how hobbled is Kemba?

Say Randle, Franc and Smart and a pick to HOU
Kemba and a BOS Williams to NYK
Harden to BOS

BOS would have Teague - Harden - Jaylen - Tatum - Tristan
Celts aren't terribly deep.  A 3-for-1 deal would really thin them out.
(maybe they could get Franc)

Anyway the money works pretty closely.
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y72yxjha

For the Knix, give up Randle and Franc for Kemba and Robert Williams (I'd probably prefer Grant, but Celts already have 2 C's).  Knix get starting quality PG and a big bouncy yute.  Opens minutes for ObiT and Knox.  Kemba organizes our team when his knee cooperates -- Knix have Elf and Quickly to fill in.  What's not to like?

34-36-37 million through 2023 for a PG with a gimpy, very questionable knee. Maybe we can get get them to throw in Antonio McDyess and Jonathan Bender. 

Have you lost your fucking mind?  BoD puts the Foo in Egg Fool Jung. 

You hate Randle, who only happens to be our best player. 

Oh yes, the genius of your calculation is how we open up playing time for Obi and Knox, while presumably closing down playing time for Quickley in favor of a graybearss eating up way more cap soace over the next three years.  But not to worry, because Kemba will be on IR most of the time. 

What's Not To Like? 

WHEN HIS KNEE COOPERATES. 

PS: I thought Obi was a draft bust on the basis of one game and strained calf?  DUH.   

PPS: But hey, Bo ain't done.  MAYBE WE COULD START TOSSING IN SOME OF OUR #1 picks.

PPPS: Bottom line.  Why should be gut our team and expend assets to help Boston?  Nevermind that Harden ain't a Celtic.  The assets don't get it done, and genius that Bo is, forgive my lack of insights, but I seem to recall Danny Ainge living off the remains of washed up or damaged/aged goods he ponies off on willing suckers in exchange for genuine value or talent or cap space or draft picks.  Such as, oh, I don't know, the earthly remains of Kevin Garnett and Paul Pierce; Isiah Thomas; Gordon Hayward....while Bo, like most Knicks GMs, specialize in paying dearly to obtain shiny objects.  Or getting rid of "flawed defensive players" who do not fit the BoD archetype. yet go on to lead exceptionally productive offensive careers such as irreedmable Jamal Crawford and Zach Randolph, and presumably Julius Randle, a "turnover machine" who notched 8 assists against the Pacers, and whose absence due to foul trouble, triggered the Pacers separating themselves from the Knicks after three competitive quarters. 

PPPPS: Oh, and Thibs is the kind of coach you hire after you have stablished a culture, though now, alas, he is a old school retread where the modern game has passed him by. 

DID I MISS ANYTHING BO. 

PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPS: Why the fuck would the Nets, the Heat, the Trailblazers or the Celtics, gut their teams to get James Harden?  Seriously?  And the Knicks should mortgage their future to help the Celtics?  LORD HAVE MERCY.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 26, 2020, 07:36:39 PM
Why the fuck would the Nets, the Heat, the Trailblazers or the Celtics, gut their teams to get James Harden? 


James Harden isnt going anywhere that doesnt make his new team better
Title: Suggs
Post by: Kam on December 26, 2020, 07:43:18 PM
8 pts
7 rebs
6 assists
4 steals

Stuffing the statsheet even when not really the focus of the offense. 
Played very good defense and initiated the offense.
He's an unselfish player content to watch two teammates Timme and Kispert set career highs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 26, 2020, 09:49:46 PM
Plays within the framework of the team, surely

One jumper I saw was BUTTER.

Listed in one spot as a WING.

Cunningham and the foreign kid (edit:  Kuminga), surely - and I also like Kentucky's Clarke - but not shitting on Suggs at all

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 26, 2020, 11:16:05 PM
Our Defense is ahead of our offense, way ahead.

Randle is finding his way in a new role. I think Thibs can coach him and that we might want him to stick around.

Burks is the cheese.

Our wing play over all is not bad. Decent showing from Knox.

Two big problems are that the PGs listed as PGs are playing like hot garbage and we need another big man who is actually big.

Tomorrow should be just as rough.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 26, 2020, 11:32:31 PM
RJ should have a bounce back game.

We gotta figure out our 3rd quarters.

Thibs make some adjustments?
Title: Julius
Post by: Kam on December 26, 2020, 11:39:02 PM
Randle looks like a better player.  Definitely more than salary trade ballast for Buddy Heild.
Title: Coroner's Report
Post by: chipstern on December 26, 2020, 11:55:49 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 26, 2020, 11:16:05 PM
Our Defense is ahead of our offense, way ahead.

Randle is finding his way in a new role. I think Thibs can coach him and that we might want him to stick around.

Burks is the cheese.

Our wing play over all is not bad. Decent showing from Knox.

Two big problems are that the PGs listed as PGs are playing like hot garbage and we need another big man who is actually big.

Tomorrow should be just as rough.

Well, it would appear as if the Elfrid Payon Experiment [ZERO in 18 minutes on 0-6, 0-3, 0-0, with 3 boards and one assist] IS OVER.   ZERO TEMPO, Leadership And Defense for a desultory -15--but even THAT doesn't begin to tell the whole story. 

Dennis in his 18 minutes was not inspirational, and clearly does not have Thibs confidence, but looked like John Stockton next to Payton, with 1-5, 2-2 FTs, and 2 boards, 2 assists and a steal for a +1, not that he moved the needle.  And Frank?  Sigh.  Talk about not inspiring confidence.  Only got floor time for one brick in two minutes when Thibs had thrown in the towel. 

While we are patiently waiting on Rivers and Quickley, and YES, let us be ver patient with our puppy--no sense in rushing IQ out there....and while he clearly has the goods, that is one hell of a lot of pressure to put on a kid...but really, what other options are there?  Besides James Haden. 

Why not throw Jared Harper into the deep end of the pool and see if he can compete against men?   

Yeah Yeah, I know, I know, but why the hell not while we are waiting on Immanuel and Austin ANYWAY.  Not like we stand much of a chance against the Bucks.  Otherwise, we should be starting Burks in the back court with RJ...I mean, Elfrid is a farce. 

Meanwhile what is this fascination with Theo Pinson, particularly on a team desperate for shooters? 

Defense was not bad, not bad at all, but our offensive stupor was numbing.  Randle and Burks were 17-28, and 6-8 from trey.  Knicks as a team were 15-55 and 2-21.  So yes, Facil, the offense does indeed seem to be lagging behind the D. 

PS: Some crow sashimi with props to BoD on Toppin.  The calf injury will be re-evaluated in 7-10 days and YES, there is a thin line between cautious and concerning.  Though I think it might be a tad early to ring the PANIC BELL, we blew our draft choice.  Oh and in going back through the way back machine to the Mills Error, a question Bo raised bears repeating....or was it Kam.  WHY DID WE NEVER MAKE A RUN AT Malcolm Brogdon when we were signing Taj Gibson and Wayne Ellington and Elfrid Payton?  Just asking?  [Well, he was an RFA, was he not, and didn't Indy get him in a S & T, so there's that...still]. 

PPS: I think it might be time to give Julius Randle his props.  OH, HE GETS TURNOVERS.  Fuck You.  He gets TOs when he is forced to do too much and if the only player on the court who needs to be guarded, outside of  Burke, or RJ when he is not having a nightmarish shooting night.  I would ask for a moratorium on moronic trade fantasies involving Julius, but, well, boys will be boys. 

PPPS: Is it worth noting that we passed on both Jeff Teague and Jrue Holiday in 2009 to pick fucking Jordan Hill, who played all of 24 games for us before being uncermemoniously dumped back in the day to Houston, not to mention passing on Rajon Rondo and Kyle Lowry in 2006 to select the Tasmanian Dweebil, Renanldo Balkman, back in the day.  WHAT THE FUCK IS IT WITH THE KNICKS AND POINT GUARDS?  Lowry, Rondo, Teague and Holiday ARE STILL IN THE LEAGUE, while Hill and Balkman are LONG GONE. We finally seem to have gotten lucky, dumb lucky, with IQ, so come on Thibs, Payton ain't earned SHIT.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 27, 2020, 12:36:05 AM
This team won’t be good till it gets it’s drummer back. That’s for sure.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on December 27, 2020, 01:09:26 AM
https://knicksmecca.blogspot.com/2020/12/the-ship-be-sinkin-again.html (https://knicksmecca.blogspot.com/2020/12/the-ship-be-sinkin-again.html)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 27, 2020, 01:28:04 AM
Knix should be looking at everything.  Knix need a PG, and have the cap space.  A healthy Kemba is better and more useful than Randle.
NYK can wait a month or more to see where Kemba is at by then.

But I don't think Ainge wants Harden anyway, so I didn't invest much time looking into this deal or Kemba's knee issue.  It's the kind of thing the Knick front office has to think about and monitor. It might be the rare 3-way trade that no team is willing to do.

If Kemba is reasonably healthy, I'd be interested.  If not, then no.  Pretty simple.  Or get compensated for taking on a talented semi-gimp.  We could even afford to wait a whole year on Kemba.  Maybe Knix could get Grant Williams and a pick for facilitating Harden to HOU.  Grant Williams a heady player, somewhat like Topping without the bounce but with extra savvy.

Getting Kemba wouldn't harm Quickly at all.  When Kemba plays, Elf would mostly sit.  Quickly is a rook transitioning to PG.  What can he handle, maybe 15-18 mins a night?  It'd still be there.
Title: PG
Post by: carlos123 on December 27, 2020, 01:36:42 AM
Like FWK says on knicksmecca, how about giving Franc a chance?

I miss Mike Miller.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 27, 2020, 02:02:07 AM
I would wait and see with Frank.  Let him show something in practice first?
Title: A healthy Kemba is better and more useful than Randle....
Post by: chipstern on December 27, 2020, 02:39:03 AM
Randle is presently OUR BEST PLAYER. 


But Bo has spoken. 


Exile him to the Island Of Lost Zach Randolphs and tell Tchaikovsky the news, just in case LesterDawg ain't to home. 

But, by all means, let's get rid of Randle.  And Burke too while we're at it, just to make damn sure our PG has NO ONE TO PASS TO. 
Title: Re: PG
Post by: chipstern on December 27, 2020, 02:41:19 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 27, 2020, 01:36:42 AM
Like FWK says on knicksmecca, how about giving Franc a chance?

I miss Mike Miller.

You have my condolences. 
Title: Speaking Of Calfs
Post by: chipstern on December 27, 2020, 02:45:39 AM
Dave McMenamin: The Lakers injury report lists Anthony Davis as questionable for Sunday’s game against Minnesota because of a right calf contusion. – via Twitter mcten
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 27, 2020, 03:25:05 AM
Randle is our best player.  That's part of the problem, and why were expected to be one of the worst teams again.  Teams with Randle as the best player have a high water mark of 35 W's.

You want to build around Randle and RJB and Mitch?
Get a lot of shooters.
Get a scoring PG.

Drafting ObiT?
What does that say?
We used our #8 pick for a backup PF?
Randle or Topdog are gonna play C?  SF?

Best thing is for Randle to play his ass off and then we MaMo him to a contender for a yute or pick.

Draft Ty H and Quicks and keep Randle?
I'd be on board.  (or Avdija).
Ship has sunk sailed.

These days, the league is all about 3's and switching multi-position defenders.
Knix have 4 starters who are poor 3-point shooters.
A pair of C's and a pair of PF's who play one position.
Though Mitch can guard outside.

None of it makes much sense.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 27, 2020, 06:52:04 AM
Randle starts the game on fire: a 3, a Lebron power drive, a Bernard baseline fadeaway, then a Melo iso wing step back.  Also chumpy D, including meekly switching on to Scurry 2.0 who vaguely hinted at using a screen leaving Elf to handle Simmons down low.  Finished with more turnovers than assists and a team worst -20.  Er ...

Knix transition D has been ugly early this year.  Looked like Thibs called timeouts twice after Knix got back on D poorly and gave up easy buckets.  Knix sure lose track of guys in transition.

RJB had a mirror image of his opening night rampage.  Guy keeps grinding away.
Burks did a lot of good stuff.  Including a pair of nice PnR's with Julius.
5 turnovers but I only recall one or two.
Burks 4-6 on 3's.  Rest of Knix 4-23.  Starters 3-15.

A 34 point Knick 2nd half.
Elf & Jr. Smith = 1-11 FG, and mostly good looks.
Knox with 3 assists and 3 o-boards.  One aggressive sequence.
I think we had Burks playing PG for small stretches.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 27, 2020, 09:52:57 AM
Randle is finding his way in a new role. I think Thibs can coach him and that we might want him to stick around.


Best player on the team, which was his role last year

And yes, a STUD NBA talent.

May be looking at an extension rather than a "lets not pay his option year".
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 27, 2020, 10:12:13 AM
And yes, if Toppin pops as expected I think they can exist together

Will Knicks look at deals?  Of course.  But not giving Julius away as cheaply as we did Marcus.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jerrya on December 27, 2020, 12:20:11 PM
Basketball can be very simple or very complex, it's what you make of it.  Some people put too much emphasis on coaching, game planning, and match-ups, but the fact of the matter is you have to have shooters.  Over the last few years we haven't had pure shooters.  Long gone are the days of Starks, Houston, Ward, Johnson, and Ewing to name a few, or even go back to the good old days of Frasier, Monroe, Bradly,  Debusschereand, and  Reed...they were all shooters

Bottom line is you have to have shooters and we don't have any...hopefully Quickley will be one.  But watching other teams play I ask myself why don't we have any. Most all of our are considered steak shooters.  That's a cop out way of saying we don't have any. 

Best coaching an strategy in the world will not overcome poor or inconsistent shooters. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 27, 2020, 12:25:13 PM
Shooting certainly  isn't taught as well these days.  But also back then players weren't shooting over trees either.
Title: Question
Post by: carlos123 on December 27, 2020, 12:40:57 PM
Jerrya, please what’s a steak shooter?
Not trying to be funny, I just don’t know what that is.
Thanks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 27, 2020, 12:49:21 PM
Not sure Jerry checks in, so I will answer

Of course it was a typo

"Streak shooter" used to be a more widely used term.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 27, 2020, 01:01:13 PM
Frank's -4.1 PER moves to.....




-8.6

ELFRID now at -4.2
Dennis a +1.8
Quickley moves to 18.6 while not playing - not sure how,

BURKS is our best PG
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on December 27, 2020, 01:19:24 PM
Which has lasted longer:
a. Knicks search for a legit pg
b. war in Afghanistan
c. war on drugs

you get the point (pun intended). 

Yes Quickly will help when he is back on the court, but the Knicks need two PGs (who needs two, who needs two...).  Payton is not a starting PG -period.  DSJ is not an NBA backup.  Franc is not a PG. I give Burks  credit for pitching in,  but c'mon.   

It  is not a secret how badly the knicks need a  real starting PG.  So am I wondering what Rose's - and his huge braintrust - plan is, their vision?   

This situation sort of reminds me of Gettlemen's tenure with the Jints.  When he came on all he talked about was improving the O line - which everyone knew was essential.  And it took him three years to finally get to it.  Him and his hog mollies...idiot...

Rose had cap space and picks and should have addressed the PG issue at the top, not toppin. A solution - well understanding that most top tier FAs are simply not coming to NY,  maybe be creative.   Bo's suggestion that drafting both Halliburton and Quickly and then unloading either DSJ or Franc,  for Chip's proverbial bag of beans, is, if nothing else, creative, naively optimistic, and outside the box. 

Going with Payton, DSJ, and bringing in Quickly - who can play with or off the play,  is not thinking but merely going through the motions - it took no effort or deep thinking to do that.
Title: Re: Question
Post by: Jerrya on December 27, 2020, 01:23:43 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 27, 2020, 12:40:57 PM
Jerrya, please what’s a steak shooter?
Not trying to be funny, I just don’t know what that is.
Thanks.

Hot one night and can't hit rim on another...ie. Barrett, Knox. When you go 8 or 9 in a row one night and go 0 for 9 on another you call it a steak shooter/ inconsistent shooter but to be honest you can just call it not a good shooter.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 27, 2020, 02:02:45 PM
Nobody ever said Barrett was a shooter

Nobody HERE ever said trade out of that 3 slot
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 27, 2020, 02:08:41 PM
Re. PG slot

Seems it will come down to whether or not Knicks were better off selecting theirs in '20 or '21 draft

(Or we could grab Harden and who cares?)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 27, 2020, 02:11:36 PM
As in...

"If we had just drafted Haliburton (or name your pg) then now we could take (name your favorite non PG 2021 draftee).

I assume you would all say Haliburton, not Maledon or Flynn or Lewis or Pritchard or Jones
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on December 27, 2020, 02:36:17 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 27, 2020, 01:01:13 PM
Frank's -4.1 PER moves to.....




-8.6

ELFRID now at -4.2
Dennis a +1.8
Quickley moves to 18.6 while not playing - not sure how,

BURKS is our best PG

Seriously?  You are comparing garbage time only stats to "could have made a difference" stats.

Elfrid and Dennis sure look superior to Frankie's - what - 3 minutes of nobody cares time.

Please.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on December 27, 2020, 02:44:07 PM
Quote from: Jack Straw on December 27, 2020, 01:19:24 PM
Which has lasted longer:
a. Knicks search for a legit pg
b. war in Afghanistan
c. war on drugs

you get the point (pun intended). 

Yes Quickly will help when he is back on the court, but the Knicks need two PGs (who needs two, who needs two...).  Payton is not a starting PG -period.  DSJ is not an NBA backup.  Franc is not a PG. I give Burks  credit for pitching in,  but c'mon.   

It  is not a secret how badly the knicks need a  real starting PG.  So am I wondering what Rose's - and his huge braintrust - plan is, their vision?   

This situation sort of reminds me of Gettlemen's tenure with the Jints.  When he came on all he talked about was improving the O line - which everyone knew was essential.  And it took him three years to finally get to it.  Him and his hog mollies...idiot...

Rose had cap space and picks and should have addressed the PG issue at the top, not toppin. A solution - well understanding that most top tier FAs are simply not coming to NY,  maybe be creative.   Bo's suggestion that drafting both Halliburton and Quickly and then unloading either DSJ or Franc,  for Chip's proverbial bag of beans, is, if nothing else, creative, naively optimistic, and outside the box. 

Going with Payton, DSJ, and bringing in Quickly - who can play with or off the play,  is not thinking but merely going through the motions - it took no effort or deep thinking to do that.

We shoulda/coulda drafted one more player late in the draft - a shooter - any shooter (see Miami)

Payton NEVER, EVER, EVER should have been resigned.  Kadeem Allen should have been retained long before that haywire idea was ever considered.

This off season, Rubio should have been traded for virtually regardless of cost Westbrook, Reggie Jackson, and a parade of minor PGs could have been signed/traded for BUT NOOOOOOOOOOO....

Also, the Knicks don't so much need a PG as they need a strategy to uniquely deploy the talent they had/have on this team. Players who leave usually do quite well elsewhere - maybe it ain't the players.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 27, 2020, 02:48:59 PM
Quote from: FWK00 on December 27, 2020, 02:36:17 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 27, 2020, 01:01:13 PM
Frank's -4.1 PER moves to.....




-8.6

ELFRID now at -4.2
Dennis a +1.8
Quickley moves to 18.6 while not playing - not sure how,

BURKS is our best PG

Seriously?  You are comparing garbage time only stats to "could have made a difference" stats.

Elfrid and Dennis sure look superior to Frankie's - what - 3 minutes of nobody cares time.

Please.

Frank Ntlikina, relative to the league, stinks

Live with it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 27, 2020, 02:58:25 PM
lol, lol, lol, we'll measure Frankie after he gets some measurable run.

your boys Elf & DSjr. have had quite a bit and both smell worse than Herman Cain's cadaver.

Die with it!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 27, 2020, 03:02:33 PM
THIBS likes defense.  Frank plays defense.  So if THIBS aint playing Frank that should speak volumes. 
Title: Can I have my allowance, mom?
Post by: lesterluv on December 27, 2020, 03:05:37 PM
Thibs is already waiting on permission from "external events department" to play Quickley. He can only have so many permission requests in the queue at one time, lol. Hang on.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 27, 2020, 03:20:08 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 27, 2020, 03:02:33 PM
THIBS likes defense.  Frank plays defense.  So if THIBS aint playing Frank that should speak volumes.

McD beat him back door quite easily

Cant check Dougie - and thats your calling card?

Sad.

Sadder still is Leon not dealing Frank, though 2 possibilities could see him off the hook

1)  Ntlikina really does have ZERO trade value
2)  Leon is holding him back for a deal later this winter or a sign and trade (heh) situation pre-2021-22
Title: the existence of a head doesn't mean there's a brain inside it
Post by: lesterluv on December 27, 2020, 05:11:29 PM
we so sad, lol...so sad

speaking of sad...clips...damn, Rick Carlisle...don't hurt 'em too bad.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/mavericks-50-point-lead-at-half-vs-clippers-marks-largest-halftime-deficit-in-nba-shot-clock-era/ (https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/mavericks-50-point-lead-at-half-vs-clippers-marks-largest-halftime-deficit-in-nba-shot-clock-era/)

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 27, 2020, 05:15:08 PM
Also, the Knicks don't so much need a PG as they need a strategy to uniquely deploy the talent they had/have on this team. Players who leave usually do quite well elsewhere - maybe it ain't the players.


This is pretty funny - but you dos ee examples across the league

Campazzo of Denver and Boston's Pritchard are 2 guys who early on are being asked to stand ina  corner.

Will teams let the young points point?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 27, 2020, 05:17:29 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 27, 2020, 10:12:13 AM
And yes, if Toppin pops as expected I think they can exist together

I don't.
Julius & ObiT are 4's with good O weak D.
Neither look like C's or SF's to me (sure can go that for spot minutes)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on December 27, 2020, 05:33:13 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 27, 2020, 05:15:08 PM
Also, the Knicks don't so much need a PG as they need a strategy to uniquely deploy the talent they had/have on this team. Players who leave usually do quite well elsewhere - maybe it ain't the players.


This is pretty funny - but you dos ee examples across the league

Campazzo of Denver and Boston's Pritchard are 2 guys who early on are being asked to stand ina  corner.

Will teams let the young points point?

Yes, more or less.

The Knicks have limited talent.  Instead of trying to fit square pegs in round holes take advantage of what each player does best and work on low hanging improvements to make them more complete players.

Frank doesn't have to be the long term PG, so what?

He can't be worse in the short term than what we're witnessing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 27, 2020, 05:34:57 PM
Quote from: Jerrya on December 27, 2020, 12:20:11 PM
Over the last few years we haven't had pure shooters.  Long gone are the days of Starks, Houston ...

When Jerryang is lamenting not having an Allan Houston, you know things are bad ...

Hey, we never got our Win Total Predictions done.
A rushed pre-season and just 72 games makes it a bit weird.

We were never going to beat IND & PHI, so i don't think it's too late.
I'm gonna roll with 24-48.
Winning 1 of 3 doesn't seem too hard to do.
(25 W's if we trade Randle . . .  that's just to rile Chip)

Kind of embarrassing we're running another year without a starting PG.
Elf will get better, but Franc and Jr. Smith won't.  Franc simply isn't a PG.

Biggest excitement this year is Quickly.
Quicks erstwhile college running mate, Maxey looked interesting for PHI.
He was rushing things, but you can see he has some craft (and quicks).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 27, 2020, 06:12:14 PM
Anyone know what play Toppin got hurt?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 27, 2020, 06:15:18 PM
Ntilikina missed New York's final two exhibitions with a sore left Achilles' tendon, so maybe he's just not ready.

 
Quote from: FWK00 on December 27, 2020, 05:33:13 PM
]
Frank doesn't have to be the long term PG, so what?

He can't be worse in the short term than what we're witnessing.

You're asking that he be inserted to play PG when you compare him to our other PGs.

So he better be better than our other options.

Through injury, inactivity, or both he hasn't shown Thibs enough yet.

If Frankie were killing the other juys in practice he would be playing.  Period.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on December 27, 2020, 06:37:15 PM
Kid can you expand upon or clarify your statement below, in particular re Pritchard?  So far he's been given decent PT, plays with a lot of confidence, perhaps more than he should, and has a decent court sense for rookie (ie he doesn't look hopelessly out of position).  I think as he matures he coulld be a decent 2-way bench guy.   

Quote
Campazzo of Denver and Boston's Pritchard are 2 guys who early on are being asked to stand ina  corner.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on December 27, 2020, 06:42:27 PM
I think I went with 34 wins after a rough maybe 2-8 start.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 27, 2020, 06:44:39 PM
I didn't even look at the schedule yet, which usually I study a bit.

Bank, that wasn't me, likely kiid.
I don't even know who those guys are.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on December 27, 2020, 06:49:39 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 27, 2020, 06:44:39 PM
I didn't even look at the schedule yet, which usually I study a bit.

Bank, that wasn't me, likely kiid.
I don't even know who those guys are.

Bo-My bad it was originated by kid.

I'll edit the post and try to get a straight answer

slim-none

Knicks wins- U20
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 27, 2020, 07:00:08 PM
Pritchard doesnt run the offense

Not much more to it than this.

Kid gloves

Its OK.  Wouldnt want to upset Mr Tatum
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 27, 2020, 07:06:20 PM
Gonna check out

1st half New O vs SA
Full game Indy vs Boston
End of Suns-Kings

Have fun with Knicks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 27, 2020, 07:08:52 PM
So my # is (Carlos’ # + 1) (- 5 if Payton & Randall avg. > 11 mins of shared court time) (+ 4 if Elf is outright released to achieve his destiny in the Uruguayan league) (+ 3 more if DJr is traded, cut or goes awol again like he did on Carlisle) (- 3 if Burks doesn't replace Bullock in starting lineup) (+ 5 if Quickley gets healthy Quickly) (+1 if Toppin is xtra Poppin) (+ 2 more if Biden cleans up Donald's disaster and fans return to MSG by March)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on December 27, 2020, 07:18:48 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 27, 2020, 07:00:08 PM
Pritchard doesnt run the offense

Not much more to it than this.

Kid gloves

Its OK.  Wouldnt want to upset Mr Tatum

You're comping a kid, who is 3rd or deeper on the Celts PG depth chart, who had no exhibition season and no summer league and 2 games in the NBA with PGs in the league for several years. No shit he doesn't run the offense. He doesn't know the offense.

And he is not assigned to "stand in the corner". Out of necessity he's played about 20 minutes a night and has not embarassed himself.

A reaction you are clearly familiar with.

You really are clueless.

LMAO
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 27, 2020, 07:22:00 PM
And he is not assigned to "stand in the corner".


No, obviously not

I look forward to Pritchard working his PG craft for the next team he ends up with.

Looks like a pretty good open shooter and occasional basket attacker for now
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 27, 2020, 07:22:35 PM
22 wins
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 27, 2020, 07:23:58 PM
Markelle Fultz looking like one of the best at his position in the league early on

Ball?  I dont like the Bledsoe pairing - but we shall see,
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 27, 2020, 07:32:24 PM
Christian Wood looked great out of the gate.  31 / 13 / 3.  14-22 FG.  Good active D too.  Guy is just 25 and signed for a mere 3/$40M.
Not sure why DET didn't keep him, but went for a pricier Jerami Grant for $20M per.

Wood played C and matched up with Nurkic.
Knix likely could have had C Wood (just 3 older older than Toppings) and drafted Ty H or Avdija.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 27, 2020, 07:54:26 PM
I think it was more Plumlee over Wood - Grant not being a pivot -  but they did get sign and trade assets in the Wood deal as well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 27, 2020, 07:56:59 PM
Isiah Stewart in the deal

November 24, 2020: Traded by the Detroit Pistons with a 2021 1st round draft pick and a 2021 2nd round draft pick to the Houston Rockets for Trevor Ariza, Isaiah Stewart, cash and a 2027 2nd round draft pick. 2021 1st-rd pick (DET own) is top-16 protected and if it does not convey becomes 2022 top-16 protected, then 2023 top-18 protected, then 2024 top-18 protected, then 2025 top-13 protected, then 2026 top-11 protected, then 2027 top-9 protected, then 2027 2n 2021 2nd-rd pick is LAL own 2027 2nd-rd pick is HOU own



Wood was unrestricted.  Not sure he wanted to stay in DET.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on December 27, 2020, 08:38:02 PM
another stellar 1st 1/2, maybe third time's a charm?

21 Ws
Title: Elfrid Payton
Post by: chipstern on December 27, 2020, 09:15:05 PM
Channelling his Inner Maven.

Holy COW.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on December 27, 2020, 09:20:39 PM
Payton is pissed off...been checking in on Elba....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 27, 2020, 09:33:56 PM
28-7-6 for Hayward as Hornets upset Nets

Jayson and the Jets getting housed
Title: Egads
Post by: chipstern on December 27, 2020, 09:37:45 PM
Frank is 3-3 from trey.

What the actual fuck?

WOW

Yeah that Julius Randle.  Best player on a crummy team, eh?   

29-14-7

An elite effort against the reigning league MVP. 

An abberation, eh, Bo? 

Mmmmmmm....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on December 27, 2020, 10:02:35 PM
crazy...that basketball Suzyn
Title: Wins
Post by: carlos123 on December 27, 2020, 10:03:55 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on December 27, 2020, 07:08:52 PM
So my # is (Carlos’ # + 1) (- 5 if Payton & Randall avg. > 11 mins of shared court time) (+ 4 if Elf is outright released to achieve his destiny in the Uruguayan league) (+ 3 more if DJr is traded, cut or goes awol again like he did on Carlisle) (- 3 if Burks doesn't replace Bullock in starting lineup) (+ 5 if Quickley gets healthy Quickly) (+1 if Toppin is xtra Poppin) (+ 2 more if Biden cleans up Donald's disaster and fans return to MSG by March)

I go with 20.
Les, u need to make up your mind.
And also, go ahead and talk to prawns!

Quote from: bankshot1 on December 27, 2020, 06:49:39 PM
Knicks wins- U20

Bank, stop undermining me! U can't go "U20".
Title: Re: Wins
Post by: chipstern on December 27, 2020, 10:07:01 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 27, 2020, 10:03:55 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on December 27, 2020, 07:08:52 PM
So my # is (Carlos’ # + 1) (- 5 if Payton & Randall avg. > 11 mins of shared court time) (+ 4 if Elf is outright released to achieve his destiny in the Uruguayan league) (+ 3 more if DJr is traded, cut or goes awol again like he did on Carlisle) (- 3 if Burks doesn't replace Bullock in starting lineup) (+ 5 if Quickley gets healthy Quickly) (+1 if Toppin is xtra Poppin) (+ 2 more if Biden cleans up Donald's disaster and fans return to MSG by March)

I go with 20.
Les, u need to make up your mind.
And also, go ahead and talk to prawns!

Quote from: bankshot1 on December 27, 2020, 06:49:39 PM
Knicks wins- U20

Bank, stop undermining me! U can't go "U20".

Try WATCHING The GAME, Maybe? 

Or are you preapring flan for Mike Miller? 
Title: Flan
Post by: carlos123 on December 27, 2020, 10:26:04 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 27, 2020, 10:07:01 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 27, 2020, 10:03:55 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on December 27, 2020, 07:08:52 PM
So my # is (Carlos’ # + 1) (- 5 if Payton & Randall avg. > 11 mins of shared court time) (+ 4 if Elf is outright released to achieve his destiny in the Uruguayan league) (+ 3 more if DJr is traded, cut or goes awol again like he did on Carlisle) (- 3 if Burks doesn't replace Bullock in starting lineup) (+ 5 if Quickley gets healthy Quickly) (+1 if Toppin is xtra Poppin) (+ 2 more if Biden cleans up Donald's disaster and fans return to MSG by March)

I go with 20.
Les, u need to make up your mind.
And also, go ahead and talk to prawns!

Quote from: bankshot1 on December 27, 2020, 06:49:39 PM
Knicks wins- U20

Bank, stop undermining me! U can't go "U20".

Try WATCHING The GAME, Maybe? 

Or are you preapring flan for Mike Miller?

Estoy haciendo flan para tí, Chipirín, el más chingón.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3cIgy6NdaObC4lRJh3M4knV9wB-txsubqZ3o_T4yDD_oSxjEjaNfBdsrK8lkkc90ZpcAeRrpIIzOxNtXbdCoTcZFnxZy4R_5qkZLONxLroNqPTcFP9JUS8uihwvx32GRduX9vonKGALrpqUFq6S5tvV=w588-h757-no?authuser=0)
Title: Stank Free Evening For All
Post by: lesterluv on December 27, 2020, 10:36:24 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 27, 2020, 07:06:20 PM
Gonna check out

1st half New O vs SA
Full game Indy vs Boston
End of Suns-Kings

Have fun with Knicks.

lol, lol we sure did! And the air was much fresher in the clubhouse. Hope you enjoyed Indy...

*** I might have to adjust my formula a bit more. THIBS just makes folks better. Like, teaches them to play BASKETBALL!

** I will NOT talk to prawns....
Title: OH SH*T
Post by: carlos123 on December 27, 2020, 10:58:46 PM
I forgot the Knicks played today and missed the game!!!

watched Nyets 4th Q

Chip, why didn’t you tell me off earlier???

Like our deranged president would say, YOUR FAULT!
Title: Now that was some Steak Shooting!
Post by: Kam on December 27, 2020, 11:08:42 PM
"They shot it at an extremely high level," Bucks head coach Mike Budenholzer said.
Title: Re: Wins
Post by: bankshot1 on December 27, 2020, 11:09:34 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 27, 2020, 10:03:55 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on December 27, 2020, 07:08:52 PM
So my # is (Carlos’ # + 1) (- 5 if Payton & Randall avg. > 11 mins of shared court time) (+ 4 if Elf is outright released to achieve his destiny in the Uruguayan league) (+ 3 more if DJr is traded, cut or goes awol again like he did on Carlisle) (- 3 if Burks doesn't replace Bullock in starting lineup) (+ 5 if Quickley gets healthy Quickly) (+1 if Toppin is xtra Poppin) (+ 2 more if Biden cleans up Donald's disaster and fans return to MSG by March)

I go with 20.
Les, u need to make up your mind.
And also, go ahead and talk to prawns!

Quote from: bankshot1 on December 27, 2020, 06:49:39 PM
Knicks wins- U20

Bank, stop undermining me! U can't go "U20".

Carlos-did I "Price is Right" underbid you with U20?

You want 18?

Nice win for you guys tonight.

Upsets all over the Association.

Dogs got fed tonight.

My guys lost by 1. Kid will be thrilled that Tatum missed a game winner.

They pissed the game away with a terrible 3rd qtr.

Pritchard, the rook, who kid has never seen play, had an ok night, 23 min 5-5 (3-3 on 3s), led team in +9.

He's climbing the curve,

Not sure if he had to stand in the corner though.

Nesmith has been invisible. His D must be not-ready for prime-time to earn so many DNP.

We'll see.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 27, 2020, 11:15:14 PM
76ers got blown out by the Cavs.

Good for the knicks for not letting short rest affect them.


Apparently Elf and Frank came back after the Philly loss yesterday and put up a bunch of shots.

Coach certainly noticed Frank putting in the work and rewarded him with time.

Show something in practice and you'll play.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 27, 2020, 11:22:56 PM
Knicks wins- U20


heh - fool

Meanwhile Tatum thinks he is Lillard all of a sudden - off one lucky banked winner

Horrible possession and loss for Celts (1-2)

PRITCHARD ws solid - even handled the ball some - and played more minutes that Teague,
Title: Re: OH SH*T
Post by: carlos123 on December 28, 2020, 12:49:01 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 27, 2020, 10:58:46 PM
I forgot the Knicks played today and missed the game!!!

watched Nyets 4th Q

Chip, why didn’t you tell me off earlier???

Like our deranged president would say, YOUR FAULT!

Watching the replay on MSG Channel. End of second quarter is A THING OF BEAUTY! 👏😻👏
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 28, 2020, 01:05:09 AM
Quick, Dennis, and Rivers out led to Frank minutes. What he did with them shows the work.

Payton’s bustout puts his scoring average right about where it was last year, does show how he can progress into a 15 pt a night guy.

We have to see what happened with Burks’ ankle.

Randle and Mitch make a nice tandem.

RJ low key beast mode. Really good stretches by Knox.

I like our upside. 

There will be lumps and bumps, but we get to 32 wins.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 28, 2020, 03:14:12 AM
I'll try to compile our season predictions and stash it in the NBA thread.
Here's what I've got so far.
Others should toss out their W total soon before to many games go down.
Considering the Knox played 3 East playoff teams, we've started the season fairly well.  4 out of 6 good halves.

2021 Knick Win Total Projections

Chip     50
Facil     32
BoDid   24
Czarlos  20
BankC's 18

Let me know who I've missed, pick a number if you haven't, let me know if i got your Win total wrong ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 28, 2020, 05:10:47 AM
Terrific game.
All 3 games the Knix have played hard and with energy.  Credit to Thibs.

Kind of a typical modern upset, where a poor shooting team nails 3's and a good shooting team clanks them.
Franc & Elf 7-7 on 3's?!?  You kidding me.
Great bounce back game form Elf.  Pride.

Knix made 60% of their 3's; Bucks just 18% (and their two rooks went 2-3 in garbage time).  5/35 on 3's without the late rook precision (15%).
Clyde noted how Bucks to the easy route and just kept chucking 3's.  Mostly fairly open shots, especially Lopez in the corner.

I wish Thibs pulled the starters sooner.  Randle and Elf didn't come out until 1:13 left up 22.  I was hoping to see Iggy more.  He stood up to Giannis' tough-looking older brother, and got in the mix on two of the last offensive possessions. in his 79 second cameo.

For MIL, Merrill can shoot and Nwora looked good.
They have an okay bench, but if those two can contribute would help.
Portis - Craig -- DJ's Augustine and Wilson - Connaughton
Merrill, Nwora, Thannis.

Great Knick team win.
Cavs up next.
4 game Road trip
@ Cavs/@Tor B2B
@ Ind
@ Atl

Need to steamroll CLE, because a Road B2B v. TOR is not easy.  IND is good.  ATL can score.  Looking forward to seeing Hawks, especially RJB v. DeAHunter. 

Usually CLE to TOR would be a short probably one hour flight, but now have to head to Florida.  So far Hawks beating up weak teams with Capela, Okongwu and some others out (Dunn actually getting his ankle scoped out).

ATL with 7 of first 9 games v. non-playoff teams
They have a two game set @ BKY, but otherwise a lot of CHA, DET, CLE, and NYK upcoming.  Chance to start off with a fine record.  6-3 very doable.  Scored over 120 both games so far.  Fun team.  Looking forward to when they have all their pieces. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 28, 2020, 05:42:29 AM
Sam Merrill was the last pick (#60) in the 2020 draft.
A deadeye shooter in college (42%).  (and not far from a 50 / 40 / 90 shooter)
But he's already 24 and will be 25 in May.
Did a 2 year Mormon mission to Nicaragua before college.
Then 4 years of college.

Bucks gave up a good deal in the Jrue for Bledsoe trade.
George Hill + RJ Hampton, a 2025 & '27 1st rounder.
But they also got Sam Merrill the #60 pick in an ultra-deep draft.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 28, 2020, 08:32:35 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 28, 2020, 03:14:12 AM
I'll try to compile our season predictions and stash it in the NBA thread.
Here's what I've got so far.
Others should toss out their W total soon before to many games go down.
Considering the Knox played 3 East playoff teams, we've started the season fairly well.  4 out of 6 good halves.

2021 Knick Win Total Projections

Chip     50
Facil     32
BoDid   24
Czarlos  20
BankC's 18

Let me know who I've missed, pick a number if you haven't, let me know if i got your Win total wrong ...

I picked over 22
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 28, 2020, 08:34:41 AM
But they also got Sam Merrill the #60 pick in an ultra-deep draft.


Remember THE DENTIST?

Merril is THE ACCOUNTANT
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 28, 2020, 09:32:29 AM
Your betting fixation is getting the best of you.
Pick a specific number of wins if you want to be counted.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 28, 2020, 09:44:01 AM
Doesn't matter, the exact figure.

Just want to even up my picks with Bank who beat me on Patriots under 8.5
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 28, 2020, 10:04:19 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 28, 2020, 09:32:29 AM
Your betting fixation is getting the best of you.
Pick a specific number of wins if you want to be counted.

Don't know how you credit me with picking 50 wins.

I have done nothing of the sort. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on December 28, 2020, 10:04:36 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 28, 2020, 03:14:12 AM
I'll try to compile our season predictions and stash it in the NBA thread.
Here's what I've got so far.
Others should toss out their W total soon before to many games go down.
Considering the Knox played 3 East playoff teams, we've started the season fairly well.  4 out of 6 good halves.

2021 Knick Win Total Projections

Chip     50
Facil     32
BoDid   24
Czarlos  20
BankC's 18

Let me know who I've missed, pick a number if you haven't, let me know if i got your Win total wrong ...

Bo I had "U20"  so while 18 is U20, as is 17, etc., IMO 19. is more reflective of my prediction.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on December 28, 2020, 10:06:53 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 28, 2020, 09:44:01 AM
Doesn't matter, the exact figure.

Just want to even up my picks with Bank who beat me on Patriots under 8.5

Kid I was just trying to save you some money.

You've had a rough year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 28, 2020, 10:44:28 AM
FRANK FRANK FRANK!!!!!

Knicks PER after 3

Brazdekis     87.4
Burks      26.2   
Randle     23.3
Quickley    18.7
Robinson     16.5
Payton     12.6
Barrett     12.1
NTLIKINA      10.3
Knox         7.9
Bullock      7.5
Toppin     6.9
Noel       6.4
Smith       1.7
Pinson      -16.2
Harper     -20.3
Title: Jettisoning the Championship-producing Formula, Letting the Heart Sing!
Post by: lesterluv on December 28, 2020, 10:58:04 AM
lol, I guess we gotta play Iggy a lot more.

OK, on the strength of what I've seen so far (which is really cheating, we aren't supposed to see any real games before predicting) which include 3 games of stunningly consistent non-AssClown play from Julius, sustained defensive effort all around, the Burks pick-up, backcourt hope in the form of Elf & Frank dropping bombs and the Quickly, as well as the flexibility that provides the possibility of a transaction that makes us better as opposed to worse mid-season and the already remarkable effects of our new coaching staff:

I'm going FULL POM-POM 33 in honor of Patrick

(which is really soooooooooooo ridiculously optimistic considering 36 is 500)

*** so basically ceding victory to Carlos here, but that's OK, he's a good lad, and being a negative nancy was wearying to my soul
Title: Wins
Post by: carlos123 on December 28, 2020, 11:07:39 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on December 28, 2020, 10:04:36 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 28, 2020, 03:14:12 AM
I'll try to compile our season predictions and stash it in the NBA thread.
Here's what I've got so far.
Others should toss out their W total soon before to many games go down.
Considering the Knox played 3 East playoff teams, we've started the season fairly well.  4 out of 6 good halves.

2021 Knick Win Total Projections

Chip     50
Facil     32
BoDid   24
Czarlos  20
BankC's 18

Let me know who I've missed, pick a number if you haven't, let me know if i got your Win total wrong ...

Bo I had "U20"  so while 18 is U20, as is 17, etc., IMO 19. is more reflective of my prediction.

You went with 18 in your response to me.

Also, Les sorta picked 21, carlos + 1 with a bunch of exceptions.

I like Chip at 50.

Oops, Les corrected hisself while I was typing, guess he finally talked to prawns after yesterday’s win.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 28, 2020, 11:26:32 AM
2021 Knick Win Total Projections

Chip     50  +/- 22
Les      33
Facil     32
BoDid   24
Czarlos  20
BankC's 19
kiid       chicken
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 28, 2020, 11:28:22 AM
Assists to turnovers - vs Bucks


Burks - 5/1
Randle - 7/2
Payton - 7/3
Barrett - 4/2
Knox - 2/1
Bullock - 1/1
Robinson - 1/1
Brazdekis - 0/0
Pinson - 0/0
Harper - 0/0
Frank - 0/1
Noel - 0/3

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 28, 2020, 11:34:38 AM
Assist percentage - SEASON


Randle - 31.2
Payton - 26.3
Burks - 21.8
Barrett - 18.7
Smith - 14.7
Quickley - 11.4
Bullock - 10.2
Knox - 9.7
Noel - 7.2
Toppin - 6.1
Robinson - 1.8
Ntlikina - 0.0
Pinson - 0.0
Brazdekis - 0.0
Harper - 0.0
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 28, 2020, 11:36:24 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 28, 2020, 11:26:32 AM
2021 Knick Win Total Projections

Chip     50  +/- 22
Les      33
Facil     32
BoDid   24
Czarlos  20
BankC's 19
kiid       chicken

24
Title: Re: Wins
Post by: bankshot1 on December 28, 2020, 11:41:15 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 28, 2020, 11:07:39 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on December 28, 2020, 10:04:36 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 28, 2020, 03:14:12 AM
I'll try to compile our season predictions and stash it in the NBA thread.
Here's what I've got so far.
Others should toss out their W total soon before to many games go down.
Considering the Knox played 3 East playoff teams, we've started the season fairly well.  4 out of 6 good halves.

2021 Knick Win Total Projections

Chip     50
Facil     32
BoDid   24
Czarlos  20
BankC's 18

Let me know who I've missed, pick a number if you haven't, let me know if i got your Win total wrong ...

Bo I had "U20"  so while 18 is U20, as is 17, etc., IMO 19. is more reflective of my prediction.

You went with 18 in your response to me.

Also, Les sorta picked 21, carlos + 1 with a bunch of exceptions.

I like Chip at 50.

Oops, Les corrected hisself while I was typing, guess he finally talked to prawns after yesterday’s win.

Carlos-You seemed irked that I low-balled the # with U20, so I suggested to you to go with 18 (ie to my 19) so you could be low-man.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 28, 2020, 11:43:22 AM
Quote from: Kam on December 27, 2020, 07:22:35 PM
22 wins
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 28, 2020, 11:56:39 AM
I added you two to the Prediction List in the NBA thread.

Dinwiddie done for the year with an ACL tear.
Marquis Chriss has a broken leg.
KAT out for weeks with a damaged wrist.
Dylan Windler still horribly crippled.

BKY could face trouble when Kyrie misses a dozen or more games as per usual.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 28, 2020, 12:05:07 PM
Shamet..........Dinwiddie.....

Meh.

But tough break for Spence as he tries to cash in
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on December 28, 2020, 12:35:30 PM
23 W for me...
taking down the undefeated Cavs would be fun
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 28, 2020, 12:56:19 PM
Cavs look good. Drummond has gotten stretchy in his old age. Can we adjust?
Title: Re: Wins
Post by: carlos123 on December 28, 2020, 12:57:34 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 28, 2020, 11:36:24 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 28, 2020, 11:26:32 AM
2021 Knick Win Total Projections

Chip     50  +/- 22
Les      33
Facil     32
BoDid   24
Czarlos  20
BankC's 19
kiid       chicken

24

24 is taken, by BoZ.
Latecomers can’t be choosers this year 😁
Title: Re: Wins
Post by: carlos123 on December 28, 2020, 12:59:42 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on December 28, 2020, 11:41:15 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 28, 2020, 11:07:39 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on December 28, 2020, 10:04:36 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 28, 2020, 03:14:12 AM
I'll try to compile our season predictions and stash it in the NBA thread.
Here's what I've got so far.
Others should toss out their W total soon before to many games go down.
Considering the Knox played 3 East playoff teams, we've started the season fairly well.  4 out of 6 good halves.

2021 Knick Win Total Projections

Chip     50
Facil     32
BoDid   24
Czarlos  20
BankC's 18

Let me know who I've missed, pick a number if you haven't, let me know if i got your Win total wrong ...

Bo I had "U20"  so while 18 is U20, as is 17, etc., IMO 19. is more reflective of my prediction.

You went with 18 in your response to me.

Also, Les sorta picked 21, carlos + 1 with a bunch of exceptions.

I like Chip at 50.

Oops, Les corrected hisself while I was typing, guess he finally talked to prawns after yesterday’s win.

Carlos-You seemed irked that I low-balled the # with U20, so I suggested to you to go with 18 (ie to my 19) so you could be low-man.

I’ll let you have the honor this season.

Sorta tired of winning all the time 😉
Title: Nyets
Post by: carlos123 on December 28, 2020, 01:04:39 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 28, 2020, 12:05:07 PM
Shamet..........Dinwiddie.....

Meh.

But tough break for Spence as he tries to cash in

They can also deal with us.

What would they offer for, say DSJ?

Hmmmmmm
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 28, 2020, 01:32:03 PM
I’d take a conditional second rounder 3-5 years out. They can have DSJ. We can call up Skal Labissiere. Noel needs help behind Mitch and Toppin at this point is a 3-4.

Our biggest issue is rebounding and frontcourt depth (barring turnovers which should get better with reps). Skal is the best big out there, did our Camp, and is a KU alum which actually seems to count for something. Vonleh, if his Covid stint is minor and recoverable, is another free option at the moment. I think my man Dedmon is also waiting for a call.

Maybe Spellman is the answer, but we have spare guards up the whazoo and an alarming lack of goons.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on December 28, 2020, 02:15:28 PM
Put me down for 26.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 28, 2020, 02:51:13 PM
Brooklyn has no room to take Dennis
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on December 28, 2020, 04:02:33 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 28, 2020, 11:36:24 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 28, 2020, 11:26:32 AM
2021 Knick Win Total Projections

Chip     50  +/- 22
Les      33
Facil     32
BoDid   24
Czarlos  20
BankC's 19
kiid       chicken

24

34
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 28, 2020, 05:13:24 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 28, 2020, 11:56:39 AM
I added you two to the Prediction List in the NBA thread.

Dinwiddie done for the year with an ACL tear.
Marquis Chriss has a broken leg.
KAT out for weeks with a damaged wrist.
Dylan Windler still horribly crippled.

BKY could face trouble when Kyrie misses a dozen or more games as per usual.

Dinwiddie?  ACL?

Oh, man, that breaks my heart. 

I'm all Knicks but I always liked him. 
Title: Chip
Post by: chipstern on December 28, 2020, 05:18:23 PM
33
Title: Julius Randle & Thibs
Post by: chipstern on December 28, 2020, 05:38:28 PM
How about some respect, people. 

He is playing like Tom Thibodeau's capo de tutti.  Thibs threw down a gauntlet and JR answered it. 

Turnovers? 

Fuck you and your rear view mirror and your lame candy ass jackoff trade wet dreams. 

Turnovers?  Sure, still how 'bout these apples? 

23.9 ppg

10 reb

6.3 assists

.606 FG%

.556 3PT%

.824 FT%

Obviously....OBVIOUSLY, three games is a pretty thin sample. 

But them's are ALL-STAR STATS. 

And he ain't just putting up numbers, he is leading...

Julius's leadership was an extension of Thibs'. 

After the Philly loss, Elfrid and Frank and others were out on the court, putting in more work. 

After the Philly loss, Thibs was like, hey, it wasn't all bad, there were some things we could build on, THINGS WE CAN WORK ON. 

I am not an Elfrid enthusiast, but what he did last night was HEROIC.  Showed his heart, showed his PRIDE, and manned up.  Frank showed Thibs some things with the quality of his work, and it wasn't just that Thibs was stuck, he had other options, but his response to Frank was, good work, here's some minutes, show me what you've got. Defense and 4-4 from trey. 

RJ had a nightmare game against Philly, but he has no rear gear...FORWARD. 

Mitchell was a foul machine against Philly, a defensive force against the Bucks.

Kevin playing with some tenacity. 

Burke making Leon Rose look very shrewd.  Bogdonavich for 4 x 18 million or Burke for 6 on a make good.  BB a damn good player, but Burke manning up and showing skill and consistency. 

We could lose four of our next four, but Thibs and his kitchen cabinet will build from all of it, positive and negative.  I mean, I love you Carlos, but you miss Mike Miller?  Really, you think MM is in the same class as TT as a coach? 

Go figure. 

I was really proud of our Knicks last might, and Thibs proved he is getting through to his charges and transforming the culture. 

Baby steps. 

PS: Big challenge for Mitch and Julius vs Andre and the Cavs. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 28, 2020, 06:48:23 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 28, 2020, 02:51:13 PM
Brooklyn has no room to take Dennis

We’ll take Reggie Perry then.

http://youtu.be/WHLJod3E8PA (http://youtu.be/WHLJod3E8PA)

The kid can play.

Brooklyn would rather play Bruce Brown than try to fix DSJ.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 28, 2020, 07:39:55 PM
2021 Knick Win Total Projections

Chip*   50  (+/- 22)
FWK     34
Les      33
Facil     32
Luee     26
BoDid   24
kiid       24
Jack Straw 23
Kam     22
Czarlos  20
BankC's 19

* rumors that Chip is predicting a losing season of 34 W's despite All star stud Julius Randle.  Check back for breaking news on this fast-developing situation.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 28, 2020, 07:46:06 PM
Good post, Chip

But please dont call Julius JR
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 28, 2020, 07:49:06 PM
Randle top 20

minutes
field goals
assists
points
offensive boards
Rebounds
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 28, 2020, 08:33:33 PM
Yikes, I turn on the Nets-Griz game.  There's 2 minutes left in the half, and they were putting Ja Morant into a wheelchair and then he got carted off.  But they were done discussing and replaying it, so I have no idea what happened.  Not good.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 28, 2020, 08:41:08 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/ja-morant-leaves-grizzlies-nets-game-in-wheelchair-with-apparent-ankle-injury/ar-BB1ciQXQ?ocid=uxbndlbing
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on December 28, 2020, 08:50:43 PM
so far coaching is making a big difference, it will be very interesting to see the impact over the entire season...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 28, 2020, 09:02:40 PM
At least just looks like a bad ankle sprain.
Can be painful, can be a few weeks out.
But ankles are warriors; they heal up well.

Actually I think they should use the wheelchair much more for any leg injury.  Instead of guys hobbling along with their arms around two teammates as though this is rec league at the Y.  But since they rarely use the wheelchair, it made this look worse.  Also the dark lighting in the off court area where Ja was prone added a sinister presence.

Kind of unusual to see a defender try to block a shot and land on the shooter's foot.
Mornat is a special talent.  Hope he's back soon.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 28, 2020, 09:05:41 PM
Sucks for the Grizz. Tyus Jones gets to stretch his legs, as might De’Anthony Melton.

What are the betting markets saying about NYK picking up Randle’s contract next year? I would guess that line has moved a bit since the draft.

We’re leaving Dennis in NY to start the trip. I assume the same for Toppin. I haven’t seen any word on Burks.
Title: Re: Wins
Post by: carlos123 on December 28, 2020, 09:44:49 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 28, 2020, 07:39:55 PM
2021 Knick Win Total Projections

Chip*   50  (+/- 22)
FWK     34
Les      33
Facil     32
Luee     26
BoDid   24
kiid       24 25
Jack Straw 23
Kam     22
Czarlos  20
BankC's 19

* rumors that Chip is predicting a losing season of 34 W's despite All star stud Julius Randle.  Check back for breaking news on this fast-developing situation.

Chip just posted his W's, look like you missed it, here it is

Quote from: chipstern on December 28, 2020, 05:18:23 PM
33
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 28, 2020, 09:49:38 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 28, 2020, 09:05:41 PM


What are the betting markets saying about NYK picking up Randle’s contract next year? I would guess that line has moved a bit since the draft.


Seems like a smart signing now we made last off-season.
Title: Re: Julius Randle & Thibs
Post by: carlos123 on December 28, 2020, 09:52:19 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 28, 2020, 05:38:28 PM

We could lose four of our next four, but Thibs and his kitchen cabinet will build from all of it, positive and negative.  I mean, I love you Carlos, but you miss Mike Miller?  Really, you think MM is in the same class as TT as a coach? 

Go figure. 


Thanks Chip, I'm open-minded about it . A few more games like yesterday's and I'll change my mind.

Read some place that Miller is now an assistant coach with OKC. Why did they not keep him here?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 29, 2020, 12:50:22 AM
Vs Cavs

Rivers remains out
Quickley and Smith also will not play
And Burks is questionable

source:  Rotoworld
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 29, 2020, 03:42:50 AM
The Cavs have been passing really well so far. This will be as tough as any of the last 3.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 29, 2020, 08:46:44 AM
No Love
No Dellavadova
No K Porter
*No Okoro
No Windler
Title: Injuries
Post by: chipstern on December 29, 2020, 10:35:39 AM
Lots & Lots Of Injuries

With only, what, a 3 week prep coming into the regular season, no summer league.  Isn't the preseason usually 4-5 weeks. 

We already saw Klay Thompson go down, now Spencer D on the Nyets, Marquisse on the Warriors....

And lots and lots of contuisons and soft tissue and hammies and groins. 

PS: Portland beat the Lakers.  Nurkic [26] & Kanter [22] combined for 22 points, 26 rebounds, 3 assists and 2 steals.  And ZERO turnovers.  Gasol & Harrell 13 points, 13 rebounds, 1 assist, 1 steal and 2 blocks.  Lilliard, McCollum and Trent combined for 79 points, on 15-32 from trey.  The Maven had projected McCollum coming out on the open market.  We shall see. 
Title: Elsewhere
Post by: chipstern on December 29, 2020, 11:00:00 AM
Trae Young 15-15 from the FT line. 

BoD's squeeze BB with a big game, 5-7 from trey with 5 boards and 5 assists.

Jazz's Conley with 20-10-9.

LUGUENTZ DORT, a sophomore SG for the Thunder with 9-11/5-7.

James Harden with a spectacular, natch, stat line in a loss to the Nuggets: 10-16/5-9, 9-9 FTs, 8 ssists, 6 boards. 

Jokic 19-12-18 [DAMN], and six Nuggets in double figures.  Coach Malone spoke some weeks ago about how Jokic came to camp in spectacular shape.  Would seem so. 

ANDRE DRUMMOND bekcons tonight, with Okoro and Love out amongst others.

The Knicks?

Burks is questionable

Toppin, Rivers, Quickley, Smith, Spellman will not play. 

So....

C: Robinson, Noels

PF: Randle, Knox

SF: Bullock, Brazdeikis

SG: Barrett, Pinson

PG: Payton, Ntilikina, Harper

Be most helpful if Burks could make a go of it. 

PS: Suddenly our depth/logjams seem less concerning. 

PPS: Stay healthy, Julius. 

PPPS: Thibs will be tested tonight.  Let's see how he does with so many significant entries amongst the walking wounded. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 29, 2020, 12:00:46 PM
I expect ATL to be one of those lower playoff seeds that nobody wants to play.
So far over 120 Points every game.  Yes against weak teams, and we'll get a better sense of the Hawks when they play a two game series v BKY.

Capela and Rondo played in Game 3.
Gallo and Okongwu still out.

Rondo had 12 & 8 in 20 minutes.
I saw an article predicting that he wouldn't finish the season in ATL-- the logic being that Rondo doesn't do regular seasons and ATL isn't anticipating making much of a playoff splash.  But I think this is a terrific situation for Rondo to help Trae with his game, and also mentor the wing pups.   Rondo and Gallo are the key vets there.  Rondo is a sharp cat and likes a challenge.  I think he'll embrace going against 2nd unit talent and helping the yute become better players.  While I think ATL can make a playoff run.  They have the offensive firepower to beat anyone.  They have Covid-proof depth.  And they have some fine defenders in Capela, Hunter and Okongwu.

It's really an interesting balanced team.  Experience is really all that will hold them back.  They have the next-Scurry in Trae Young and wisely decided to build around him in much the same way -- shooters and defenders.  Bogdan x2 and Gallo are premier shooters.  Hunter, Huerter and Collins are getting there.  Collins and Capela are terrific PnR partners and rim runners.  Reddish and Hunter can run the floor.

I'm very interested in seeing how it all comes together.  Last year, they had D issues, but have added Capela and Okongwu.  Hunter and Reddish had some rook growing pains, but seem steadier as sophomores.

v. DET, they had 7 guys in double figures and hit nearly half of their 3's (20-42).
Really looking forward to ATL at full strength with 20+ games under their belt.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 29, 2020, 02:04:47 PM
I was looking forward to seeing Okoro again.
Out with foot troubles.  Missed the last game too.
Okoro played 42 minutes v. DET and didn't score.
That's hard to do.  It was a 2OT game.

I guess with Sextant & Garland chucking, there's not much to go round.
Both of them are shooting 50% or better from everywhere so far.
Garland's 3-Pt % is almost equal to his FT%.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 29, 2020, 04:18:34 PM
BURKS downgraded to DOUBTFUL.
Title: Always Thinking of You!
Post by: lesterluv on December 29, 2020, 04:44:46 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 28, 2020, 11:43:22 AM
Quote from: Kam on December 27, 2020, 07:22:35 PM
22 wins

The new Negative Nancy... can't stand seeing you feeling so low. Here's a present to cheer you up: https://thumbs.gfycat.com/IdolizedClosedEnglishsetter-mobile.mp4 (https://thumbs.gfycat.com/IdolizedClosedEnglishsetter-mobile.mp4)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 29, 2020, 06:38:28 PM
Negative Nancy is so démodé

Try Critical Karen
Title: Enes
Post by: carlos123 on December 29, 2020, 06:55:06 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 29, 2020, 06:38:28 PM
Negative Nancy is so démodé

Try Critical Karen

Critical Kam(s)ter 😁
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 29, 2020, 09:34:15 PM
Uh, that was a good god damn game.

We’ve got a lot of growth and a ton of cleaning up to do, but in a hard fought match we were the better team, almost wire to wire.

They missed shots they should of hit. We missed rebounds, turned it over, and bricked free throws to a maddening extent. We won convincingly. The second quarter gave us an idea of what the Cavs could do and then we shut it down. We created opportunities and got baskets when it mattered. We forced them to play as hard as they could to stay in the game. Beautiful stuff from our boys tonight.

I really like Drummond and McGee together in the Cavs front court. It really brings out the best in both players. Put Okoro out with those two and it will be tough to score regardless of their backcourt deficiencies.

Randle got the trip-dub. And he just missed the quad-dub by a single TO. Decent start to his season so far.

The eight who played tonight are legit. Add three on the mend in Quickley, Toppin, and Burks and that’s  eleven we can trust. Hopefully we can get one more  out of Rivers, Brazdekis, or Spellman, which would be a good bonus.

Tampa swamp lizards, Indy, and Hotlanta are next on the trip.

We do have a road win on throughly unsustainable shooting stats.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 29, 2020, 09:43:57 PM
After a scorching opening night, RJB just 13-47 FG (0-13 on 3's) in the next 3.  Always gives good effort.  Consistency isn't easy to achieve in the NBofA.

I'll try to catch a replay . . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 29, 2020, 09:51:21 PM
RJ has been a bit of an afterthought thus far

Not sure if this will change or not

Knicks will be excellent when/if Randle and Barrett are 2/3/4 best player
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 29, 2020, 10:01:28 PM
MIL had 12 players make a 3-Pointer.  (all except Giannis).
That has to be a record.
They shot 57% on 3's.
Won by 47.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 29, 2020, 10:03:19 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 29, 2020, 09:34:15 PM
Uh, that was a good god damn game.

We’ve got a lot of growth and a ton of cleaning up to do, but in a hard fought match we were the better team, almost wire to wire.

They missed shots they should of hit. We missed rebounds, turned it over, and bricked free throws to a maddening extent. We won convincingly. The second quarter gave us an idea of what the Cavs could do and then we shut it down. We created opportunities and got baskets when it mattered. We forced them to play as hard as they could to stay in the game. Beautiful stuff from our boys tonight.

I really like Drummond and McGee together in the Cavs front court. It really brings out the best in both players. Put Okoro out with those two and it will be tough to score regardless of their backcourt deficiencies.
 :'(

The eight who played tonight are legit. Add three on the mend in Quickley, Toppin, and Burks and that’s  eleven we can trust. Hopefully we can get one more  out of Rivers, Brazdekis, or Spellman, which would be a good bonus.

Tampa swamp lizards, Indy, and Hotlanta are next on the trip.

We do have a road win on throughly unsustainable shooting stats.

Maybe next time.  Worth noting that the same thing that contributes to turnovers, also contributes to eleven assists, 11 MOTHERFUCKING ASSISTS FROM YOUR POWER FORWARD.  Even as he scores 28, and nails 4-4 from trey for Pete's sake.  DAMN.  He is our leader, and tonight, in Bullock and Payton, he had some serious co-conspirators.  DAMNDAMNDAMN. 

The minute Julius hit the pine for a rest in the second quarter, you knew the lead was going to wither away.

As for that unsustainable shooting?

We are deveolping a genuine defensive posture, which will result in some wins on nights when the fruit ain't falling. 

A great win on a night when we didn't bring our A Game, turnover [24!] and foul FOUL Fowl Shooting wise [13-21].  But we outrebounded the Cavs 55-43, and it is worth remembering how Drummond kicked our ass in the preseason.  Tonight Drummond/McGee combined for 26-26, Mitchell and Nerlens 13-17. 

But we were 13-25 from trey, and many of those were off of Randle assists. 

Thibs & Randle willed us to a win. 

Knicks 2-2.  Cavs now are 3-1. 

Bucks came back and obliterated Miami tonight, albeit without Butler, but still....

Raptors always play us tough. 

Exhale.  The moment is over. 

NEXT.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 29, 2020, 10:27:39 PM
When was the last time we were .500 in late December?
Title: 4 Pom Pom Girls Looking STRONG EARLY
Post by: lesterluv on December 29, 2020, 10:34:27 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 28, 2020, 09:44:49 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 28, 2020, 07:39:55 PM
2021 Knick Win Total Projections

Chip*   50  (+/- 22)
FWK     34
Les      33
Facil     32
Luee     26
BoDid   24
kiid       24 25
Jack Straw 23
Kam     22
Czarlos  20
BankC's 19

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 29, 2020, 10:39:01 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 29, 2020, 10:27:39 PM
When was the last time we were .500 in late December?

3 years ago under Hornacek
Title: Re: 4 Pom Pom Girls Looking STRONG EARLY
Post by: carlos123 on December 29, 2020, 11:17:05 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on December 29, 2020, 10:34:27 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 28, 2020, 07:39:55 PM
2021 Knick Win Total Projections

Chip*   50  (+/- 22)
FWK     34
Les      33
Facil     32
Luee     26
BoDid   24
kiid       24 25
Jack Straw 23
Kam     22
Czarlos  20
BankC's 19


That’s ok doggie, not quite there yet, but I’m on the verge of becoming a positive pussy. I think after a couple more good wins.

It don’t take much to convince a knicks fan that everything’s gonna be alright now.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 30, 2020, 12:40:24 AM
Caught the 2nd half of Kings - Nugs.
Really like Haliburton's game.
Just smooth and savvy.  Always in the right place on D.
Keeps the ball moving.

Finished with a team high +20.
5-7 FG (3-4 on 3's), had one nice fast break bucket.
24 mins: 13 Pts, 3 boards, 4 assists, 3 steals
But mostly he was just moving the ball.

SacKings held off the Nugs in the 4Q.
Mostly Fox and Rich Holmes (another fave of mine, who also stuffed the stat sheet)

SAC has a deep team with a bench of:
Cory Joe - Haliburton - Jabari - Bjelica - Whiteside 
Title: Our Year End "My IQ's Like Kiid Carter's" Award
Post by: lesterluv on December 30, 2020, 08:26:24 AM
goes to:

Louisiana GOP House Rep-elect Luke Letlow!

(https://www.deepsouthvoice.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/2020-12-29-Luke-Letlow-758x505.jpg)

after killing hundreds of good people in Louisiana by holding a stream of maskless indoor campaign events, rallies and parades and encouraging others to do the same.

he got what he thoroughly deserved by kicking the bucket from COVID at the over-ripe age of 41.

may many more of his ilk join him and their good friend Herman Cain in Hell's serial-killer wing!

I'm just an ordinary guy in an ordinary coffin!

file under: stinking up the joint, pass the Febreze
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 30, 2020, 08:33:10 AM
Saw the 1st half so far:

Randle has to be the 1Q MVP of the League.
Guy's a monster out of the gate.
Last 3 games, Julius is 9-11 on 3's.

I know things slid when Randle exited in other games, but I sure hope the answer isn't going to be Randle not exiting.  44 minutes leads to mistakes (9 turns) and potentially injuries.  At least Randle is in better shape this year.  Hope this isn't the start of Thibs grinding Randle into dust...

Bollocks was solid with Burks and Rivers out.
Franc looks shaky often enough, but is managing enough useful stuff to be helpful.

Cavs:
Nance kept missing open corner 3's ("his shot" Austin Carr about a half dozen times -- one for each miss).  Nance was effective inside.
Sexton is mighty quick, but often gets in the paint without a plan.  Also a poor reach-y defender.
Exum looked awful.  Didn't score, clanky 3's, can't finish when he gets inside.

Bulldog Drummond looked terrific early, but the team collapsed when he was out and they kept him out too long.  And why not play McGee next to Drummond and see how teams handle that.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 30, 2020, 09:10:41 AM
Haliburton reminds me of Charlie Ward.  But probably a better scorer.  Ward maybe a better board guy

56/50/100 shooting his first 4 games

20.3 PER

Bears watching as we answer my 'take another player at 8/ even trade down question.

Was someone dealing up to 8 where we could have gotten Ty H with their pick?  Or Achiuwa?  Or a few others we have spoken of?

Cole Anthony has a similar PER early - and with poor 2 and 3 point percentages.  Just does so much in his 17 minutes per.  5-1 assists/TO.  17.2/9.1/8.6 numbers per 36 minutes
Title: Re: Our Year End "My IQ's Like Kiid Carter's" Award
Post by: Jack Straw on December 30, 2020, 12:45:03 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on December 30, 2020, 08:26:24 AM
goes to:

Louisiana GOP House Rep-elect Luke Letlow!

after killing hundreds of good people in Louisiana by holding a stream of maskless indoor campaign events, rallies and parades and encouraging others to do the same.

he got what he thoroughly deserved by kicking the bucket from COVID at the over-ripe age of 41.

may many more of his ilk join him and their good friend Herman Cain in Hell's serial-killer wing!

I'm just an ordinary guy in an ordinary coffin!

file under: stinking up the joint, pass the Febreze

Letlow is a pretty good aptronym for all he accomplished

Charlie Ward averaged 6.5 pnts a game for the Knicks, Halliburton will most definitely be a better scorer than that
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 30, 2020, 02:57:31 PM
http://nypost.com/2020/12/29/a-funny-thing-happened-for-the-knicks-on-this-night/ (http://nypost.com/2020/12/29/a-funny-thing-happened-for-the-knicks-on-this-night/)

Curious to see the minutes spread against the Raps.
Title: 63.8 mil
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 30, 2020, 06:01:45 PM
Knicks with 73.8 mil projected cap space, now that all NBA options ahve passed

This is at least double of all but 3 teams

SPURS - 47.9
THUNDER - 43.6
MAVERICKS - 34.5

So, who do you want after McCollum?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 30, 2020, 06:07:40 PM
Injury report

Frank hurt his knee, is questionable
Knox says he WILL play through whatever is ailing him (hometown game)
QUICKLEY may very well be ready
Rivers is very close, actually also a possible

(I will expect we get 2 of the 4)
Title: TRAE YOUNG
Post by: chipstern on December 30, 2020, 08:11:04 PM
Hey if we are gonna reference Luka next to Bird, what of Trey Bien?

Steph Curry? 

Got a bit of Pistol Pete in him too.
Title: Carlos
Post by: chipstern on December 30, 2020, 08:20:06 PM
Don't get me wrong. 

Mike Miller is a good coach.

A good ASSISSTANT coach.

Tom Thibodeau is a great coach.

A great HEAD COACH. 

Man alive did he ever get in everyone's head. 

DEFENSE

FIGHT THROUGH SCREENS

STOP THE THREES

BALL MOVEMENT

MOVING WITHOUT THE BALL

And whatsoever the fuck he has them working on in practice, and getting them to work on AFTER PRACTICE. 

Do you realize that Cleveland was leading the league in threes.

Do you realize that the day after we STOMPED on Milwaukee and Captain Randle played The Greek Freak to a draw, that the Bucks OBLITERATED the Heat.  THE HEAT.  Albeit without Jimmy Butler, but they just RAINED TREYS on them, and won by something like 40-50. 

KULTURE

https://nypost.com/2020/12/30/tom-thibodeaus-knicks-culture-changes-taking-shape/ (https://nypost.com/2020/12/30/tom-thibodeaus-knicks-culture-changes-taking-shape/)

THIBS

PS: Because we drafted Obi Toppin we have to get rid of Julius?  Dumbest thing I've heard.  Julius is Don Thibodeau's Wills, least ways Luka....Luka Brazzi that is.  Randle came to camp in a physical condition that showed Thibs something, Coach challenged him and Julius has willed himself to another level. So it's redundant for Obi to come up and come through JR?  FUCK YOU.  Let's trade him for a #1?  Julius AIN'T Morris.  Much Younger and a Better Team Player.  Hey, I wanted Haliburton, but there was something dynamic about Obi that Knicks brass cherished.  When is being challenged by a vet bad.  When is HAVING DEPTH at the 4 bad?  If Thibs keeps weaponizing Julius and Elfrid, be a nice mentor for Obi and for Quickley and Harper....Rivers, too.  Soon we'll have Baby Doc, Bullock AND Burke back in the rotation.  DAMN, we have the makings of a competitive team with some grit, in lieu of a surfeit of TALENT.  And how did Larry put it?  PLAYING THE RIGHT WAY.  Would 33-39 get us to the playoffs?  Something to shoot for.
Title: To DREAM The IMPOSSIBLE Dream
Post by: chipstern on December 30, 2020, 08:21:25 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 30, 2020, 06:01:45 PM
Knicks with 73.8 mil projected cap space, now that all NBA options ahve passed

This is at least double of all but 3 teams

SPURS - 47.9
THUNDER - 43.6
MAVERICKS - 34.5

So, who do you want after McCollum?

Trae Young while we are jacking off in public. 

GROW UP. 

That's HIS Fucking TEAM. 
Title: A Small Sample, But...What The ACTUAL Fuck?
Post by: chipstern on December 30, 2020, 09:15:22 PM
Astoundingly, through four games, the Knicks lead the NBA in 3-point shooting (45.9 percent) and 3-point defense. They have held opponents to 24.4 percent, including two excellent deep-shooting teams in the Bucks and Cavs.

Considering the NBA has become a 3-point-oriented league, that is a delicious sign.

The Knicks move the ball and chase down shooters on defense.

“Coach demands for every player to go out and play the right way,’’ Bullock said. “I think he let that be known from Day 1 in camp that we’re not going to force shots. We’re going to share the ball. As long as you’re playing hard on offense, on defense, moving the ball, every player on this team is going to get a chance.”

-- Marc Berman
Title: Re: TRAE YOUNG
Post by: facilitatorn on December 30, 2020, 09:59:37 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 30, 2020, 08:11:04 PM
Hey if we are gonna reference Luka next to Bird, what of Trey Bien?

Steph Curry? 

Got a bit of Pistol Pete in him too.

I put Trey Young in the category of point guards who’d get schooled badly by Mark Price.

Trey shouldn’t feel bad. It’s a large category.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 30, 2020, 10:08:10 PM
If we drafted a backup PF, when we needed an upgrade at the 1-2-3, it was a bad/dumb move.

Knic 3-Pt shooting isn't sustainable.  What's Randle at 69%?  Franc and Elf hitting?
Looked to me like MIL and CLE missed a lot of good 3 looks.
Osman was a train wreck on everything and he'd been hot the previous two games.
Nance had good corner ops, etc.
MIL was rather lazy and stuck with jacking 3's despite no one hitting.  And they didn't work the inside for easy shots or to suck in the D for open 3's.  I thought they let the Knix off the hook, by just chucking when cold.

I did think the Knix D disrupted the Cavs in the 3Q and didn't allow them to get into a rhythm or anybody to get hot.  When the Cavs moved the ball, they got pretty good looks.  And the Knix tend to leave guys open on the weak side corner that teams haven't exposed yet.

Yes, Knix certainly playing with more energy on D.
But I think we're very much in Small Sample Theater.

I wonder about the Cavs -- can you really start a pair of 6'1" guards?

ATL scored 141 v BKY (and lost).
Collins 30 & 10.
Bogdanx2 6-11 on 3's.

Gallo returned (sorta -- just 3 mins).  He'll get the Sol Hill minutes
And likely Bog or Gallo will start after a while.
Trae and Capela will work out PnR's and lobs -- they've played maybe 2 or 3 games together so far. Hawks also waiting to get Okongwu so they can keep teams under 140.

Gonna be very interesting when they have a full complement and figure out what works.  I'm guessing Bogs will start to help Trae with ball movement and vet poise. With a fine bench of Rondo - Huerter - Reddish - Gallo - Okongwu.

But I haven't see the New Hawks yet.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 30, 2020, 10:48:35 PM
Not sure we’re in dire need of that perimeter upgrade.

Mitch Noel Spellman
Randle Toppin Iggy
Bullock Knox
RJ Burks Frank
Payton Quickley Rivers DSJ

I think a very large rotation level big man and a guy who can reliably defend 3’s and 4’s while contributing offensively are more pressing. Ideally, Knox grows into someone who fits category 2. If not, we’ve got two cracks at somebodies in the first round of next year’s draft.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 30, 2020, 11:21:38 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 30, 2020, 10:08:10 PM
If we drafted a backup PF, when we needed an upgrade at the 1-2-3, it was a bad/dumb move.


Nice way to spin a hot start by Randle into a bad thing.

TyH was my pick for months but you gotta give Obi a chance.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 30, 2020, 11:36:47 PM
Exactly the same thing I said before the games started and Randle got cooking.

Randle and ObiT are duplicative.  Both one-position scoring 4's with iffy D (can't really play C or SF).  Seems another self-inflicted draft error.

Maybe drafting ObiT lit a fire under Julius.  But that doesn't change the dynamics.
Title: ALAS
Post by: chipstern on December 31, 2020, 12:40:31 AM
Quote from: Kam on December 30, 2020, 11:21:38 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 30, 2020, 10:08:10 PM
If we drafted a backup PF, when we needed an upgrade at the 1-2-3, it was a bad/dumb move.


Nice way to spin a hot start by Randle into a bad thing.

TyH was my pick for months but you gotta give Obi a chance.

MINE, TOO. 

Be funny if Quickley pans out, eh? 

Obi, as well. 

Meanwhile, many of the dumb moves BoD has excoriated, seem to be working out. 

And let us not forget that as per his trenchant analysis, Thibs was a bad move by BoD's lights as well....him being the coach you hire three-four years into your rebuild don't you know, as the game has obviouly passed him by, as per the Wolves. 

ALAS. 

Perhaps Bo is just upset because Julius is mitigating against his trade scenarios and master plan for the Knicks. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 31, 2020, 12:55:00 AM
I was fine with the Thibs hire, because he's a good coach who preaches D.  But he does prioritize Win Now and vets over yute development.  So I would have gone with Atkinson instead.

Actually part of my plan was to feature Randle, build up his trade value and Sell High.  Doubt Knix will do that, but we should.  Then play the yute.

I don't think Quickly effects whether to draft TyH or not.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jerrya on December 31, 2020, 11:00:51 AM
I like Thibs so far because of his substitution process.  Too many coaches go into a game with a preset sub pattern and number of minutes to give no matter what the situation is.  Thibs seems to go by feel of the game and play who hot and bench who's not and is not worried about pre-planned minutes or patterns.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 31, 2020, 02:14:50 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 30, 2020, 11:21:38 PM

If we drafted a backup PF, when we needed an upgrade at the 1-2-3, it was a bad/dumb move.


Best way to say it is Rose drafted for his new team rather than to help his current team - thought being Randle would be gone in near future.  Pictured Toppin a top PF in this league and building block #1 (jury out on Barrett and Robinson)

But we will see what occurs

Did Leon properly assess the assets when he arrived on scene?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 31, 2020, 02:30:03 PM
Or - I will add - has the press horribly devalued Randle, never ever figuring he could be here for the long haul? 

Julius true shooting percentage fell to .538 a year ago but was ,600+ the 2 years prior.

None of what we see now is surprising to me.  He is a good SHOOTER so getting better at 3 point range as he ages is almost expected.  And the assists?  A player that has always had excellent court vision (6 triple doubles entering this year, a 10+ assist game every year except his first with NY)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 31, 2020, 02:41:07 PM
Quote from: Jerrya on December 31, 2020, 11:00:51 AM
I like Thibs so far because of his substitution process.  Too many coaches go into a game with a preset sub pattern and number of minutes to give no matter what the situation is.  Thibs seems to go by feel of the game and play who hot and bench who's not and is not worried about pre-planned minutes or patterns.

Solid point

A full second unit is not always needed to play big minutes
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 31, 2020, 03:08:02 PM
The Knicks move the ball and chase down shooters on defense.

Knikcks also effective giving the whammy horns from the bench as brick after brick goes up

I would expect a middling percentage from both offense and defensive 3 pt in the end (#12-18 in league)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 31, 2020, 03:37:52 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 30, 2020, 11:36:47 PM
Exactly the same thing I said before the games started and Randle got cooking.

Randle and ObiT are duplicative.  Both one-position scoring 4's with iffy D (can't really play C or SF).  Seems another self-inflicted draft error.

Maybe drafting ObiT lit a fire under Julius.  But that doesn't change the dynamics.

Before Randle got cooking it was seen as a pick for when Randle was traded or not signed/re-upped.  In that case that would've been a prudent PF pick.
Now that Randle looks like a keeper you should be happy we have a keeper at PF.

Either way we have a keeper at PF.   A good thing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 31, 2020, 05:47:32 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 31, 2020, 03:37:52 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 30, 2020, 11:36:47 PM
Exactly the same thing I said before the games started and Randle got cooking.

Randle and ObiT are duplicative.  Both one-position scoring 4's with iffy D (can't really play C or SF).  Seems another self-inflicted draft error.

Maybe drafting ObiT lit a fire under Julius.  But that doesn't change the dynamics.

Before Randle got cooking it was seen as a pick for when Randle was traded or not signed/re-upped.  In that case that would've been a prudent PF pick.
Now that Randle looks like a keeper you should be happy we have a keeper at PF.

Either way we have a keeper at PF.   A good thing.

Hey, I fail to see the problem with having TWO KEEPERS AT PF. 

Talent is TALENT. 

As for Kenny Atkinson over Thibs as a "developmental" coach?

Lordy.  Derrick Rose?  Jimmy Butler?  Taj Gibson? 

I don't think so, but a moot point. 

Hoping Rivers gets some burn tonight.  So far our signings of Noels and Burke have worked out nicely, Spellman still to be heard from, with both returning vets, Peyton and Bullock, getting into rhythm, and progress from our core puppies RJ, Robinson and Kevin, even Frank, if he ever stop getting nicked up.  Quickley and Toppin's time will come. 

This already very much THIBS' TEAM, and for that day old piece of bread, I am grateful. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 31, 2020, 06:14:47 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 31, 2020, 03:37:52 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 30, 2020, 11:36:47 PM
Exactly the same thing I said before the games started and Randle got cooking.

Randle and ObiT are duplicative.  Both one-position scoring 4's with iffy D (can't really play C or SF).  Seems another self-inflicted draft error.

Maybe drafting ObiT lit a fire under Julius.  But that doesn't change the dynamics.

Before Randle got cooking it was seen as a pick for when Randle was traded or not signed/re-upped.  In that case that would've been a prudent PF pick.
Now that Randle looks like a keeper you should be happy we have a keeper at PF.

Either way we have a keeper at PF.   A good thing.

Bo is the only one who thinks they cannot play together

And when it comes down to it, your thinking may be right about the pick fitting position and NYK thinking - but could be it was their choice as best player available as well

Haliburton has been good, as has Avdija.  Until Obi flies we have no settled case
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 31, 2020, 06:15:32 PM
Sounds like Rivers will play

Burks and Quickley out
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 31, 2020, 06:35:31 PM
TOR has blown a lead in all 3 L's so far:

Quote
New Orleans Pelicans rallied from an 11-point deficit and beat the relocated Toronto

DeMar DeRozan had 27 points and the San Antonio Spurs rallied in the final minute to beat the Toronto Raptors 119-114 on Saturday night.

Embiid shakes off injury, rallies 76ers past winless Raptors

Not sure what that's all about since we're talking a vet team with experience together.  Maybe conditioning, maybe bad luck.  Raps don't really have a 1A go-to guy when they need a bucket.  Siakim?  FVV?  Lowry?
Siakim and FVV are shooting under 40% FG.

G1 v. NOPe: tied game with 1:15 left in 3Q; TOR went 3-12 in the 4Q

G2: Tight game the whole way; TOR with a 4 PT lead with 2:10 left

G3: TOR didn't score last 5:10 of 3Q, losing a 13 Pt lead; Siakim fouled out; PHI shot 19 more FT's; TOR 37 Pt 2nd half

Aside from Boucher, their bench has been poor, and appears thin.
Might be why they faded late 3Q in 2 of 3 so far.
So Knick depth/bench could be key.
Though Knix have 6 (bench) guys out.

We'll see what Tom Thumb's rotations/minutes turn out to be.  I think so far he's trying to see what works.  Plus there's been different guys out every game so far.

Every year TOR has moved one of their once loaded bench into the starting lineup: Siakim --> FVV --> Anunoby.  But never restocked.
So it's Boucher and Normative Powell.  Alex Len, Stan John and Matt Thomas.
Good chance for Len and StanJohn to show they can play.  Two guys I was big on their rook/soph years.
Boucher has played well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 31, 2020, 06:54:01 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 31, 2020, 05:47:32 PM
Hey, I fail to see the problem with having TWO KEEPERS AT PF. 

1) Lots of needs -- we needed to draft a starter.
2) Rather similar players, without positional variety
3) PF isn't a key position
4) a 4 game hot streak from Randle doesn't make him a keeper.

Aside from kiid, do others think Randle and Toppings can play together?

I definitely think the Knicks thought they drafted the BPA in ObiT.
The good thing is there is no rush to move Randle, so we can wait for obiT to develop or for Randle to claim a long term hold on Knick PF.

It struck me that Randle is basically playing Blake Griffin style PF.  Point forward who can rumble for physical drives and pop some 3's.  Draw defensive attention into the paint and kick out to shooters.  Straight from the Blake school of PF.

Losing weight and better conditioning has helped Randle.  A little quicker.  A little more willing to play defense.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 31, 2020, 07:24:31 PM
Strikes me as NEEDY that you would kill Randle all that time and still feel the need to analyze him when he is doing so well

Your silence on the matter is fine.

MATT THOMAS is the other bench guy playing well for TOR, who has no starter above a 15.6 PER

Just one of those things, I'd say - the slow start -

League will right itself (see PHI currently leading 4-0 Orlando by 25 before the half)

I expect a Malachi Flynn sighting.  Talk about paying dues.  1 game.  1 minute played
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 31, 2020, 07:27:00 PM
SIAKAM suspended by team for tonights game
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 31, 2020, 08:00:14 PM
Normally Powell paying dividends as a starter.
We'll see how TOR's bench holds up.
But Knix also thin tonight due to injuries.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 31, 2020, 08:00:48 PM
Looks like Rivers may get the chance to stop the stink.

Holy Kurt Rambis!!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 31, 2020, 08:04:05 PM
Austin went with the LONNIE SHELTON rather than his dad's 25
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 31, 2020, 08:07:12 PM
Randle ran over one guy.  Another play nearly spun into a triple team then threw the ball away.
RJB 1-5 FG.
Knox with a 6' foot floater from 8' away.
Kinda ugly so far.

Edit: then Knox cans a pair of 3's.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 31, 2020, 08:12:07 PM
Knicks need some Moneyball management

As in telling Knox - "when you take that runner going away from the hoop to your right you hit it at 16%"
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 31, 2020, 08:12:55 PM
Au Revoir making a difference.
NYK bench smacking TOR's around.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 31, 2020, 08:16:37 PM
Barrett needs to see Abdul Rauf
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 31, 2020, 08:34:25 PM
Considering Knix starters are 0-11 on 3's, and the team 2-18, being down by 2 is rather good. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 31, 2020, 09:07:04 PM
Knix 2-24 on 3's, yet have a 2 point 3Q lead.

Both teams with feculent offenses.

Alex Len with 50% more made 3's than the whole Knicks team!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 31, 2020, 09:38:24 PM
Thibs went a lonnnnnng time with this unit
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 31, 2020, 09:41:53 PM
Yikes, slipping away.
14 point deficit with 5:30 left.

Knick starters 0-19 on 3's.
Wonder what the record is?

0-21 for the starting unit.
9% for the team.  Oh & well.

Kind of what I was saying that the Knicks have been unnaturally hot from 3; and Cavs & Bucks were off.

Well, sometimes best to get all your misses out in one game.
And some credit for hanging in a game in which they were shooting so poorly.
Also credit to Rivers for providing a spark in his first game back.
He could be a key guy as he has handles/ball moving ability.
To help our weak PG's and lighten Randle's load.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 31, 2020, 11:39:53 PM
Len solved us for the Raps & we had no counter. Hard fought for almost 40 minutes on the worst shooting night I can remember. A lot were on good looks that went 1/2 way down. Indy up next. The hard tests continue to start our season.

While we really missed Burks tonight (though not as much as the Raps missed Siakam), Rivers showed us he deserves to be part of the conversation going forward.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jerrya on January 01, 2021, 08:04:18 AM
What do we do with Barrett?  0 for 21 in 3's.  He's not a shooter.  When good shooters have off nights, their shots are in the ball park  but when he misses they are truly klunkers with no touch on the ball.

Sometimes he won't even hit the rim and worse yet he will throw up air balls.  These are not signs of a cold night just a bad shooter. Don't know if his rebounding, defense, or going to the hoop can overcome his lack of outside presence.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 01, 2021, 08:58:21 AM
Jerrya, did you make a Win predication?
I don't have yours.
Not to late to take a guess ....

If we're going forward with RJB, Randle & Mitch, it's imperative to bring in a 3&D SF.  And that's probably equally true for RJB & ObiT/Mitch.
You also want a PG who can hit from outside.
Gotta add shooters.

RJB more of a driver/slasher than shooter.  He would seem to have tools to become a solid defender, once he gains experience.  RJB is mostly a hustle/energy guy for now.  Streaky like many young guys.  His on in ON, his off is OFF.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jerrya on January 01, 2021, 09:35:15 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 01, 2021, 08:58:21 AM
Jerrya, did you make a Win predication?
I don't have yours.
Not to late to take a guess ....

I don't think I put anything here but I did make a small wager on over 23.5
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jerrya on January 01, 2021, 09:36:51 AM
Quote from: Jerrya on January 01, 2021, 09:35:15 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 01, 2021, 08:58:21 AM
Jerrya, did you make a Win predication?
I don't have yours.
Not to late to take a guess ....

 
I don't think I put anything here but I did make a small wager on over 23.5
Title: RJ [0-8], Knicks As A Team [3-36] & The Reality Of Thibs' Short Rotation
Post by: chipstern on January 01, 2021, 11:17:24 AM
Confounding

D

Check

Slashing & Driving

Check

Passing & Facilitating

Check

FT Shooting Has Improved Significantly

2019-2020 [56 games, 156-254, .618%]; 2020-2021 [5 games, 18-23, .783%]

3-Point Shooting

2019-2020 [56 games, 63-197, .320%]; 2020-2021 [5 games, 3-24. .125%]

Yikes, and that's 21 straight misses after 3-3 on opening night.   

Abdul Rauf?

Saint Jude is more like it. 

Curiouser & Curiouser.

Wonder what the Knicks had for their pre-game meal. 

As a team, they were 3-36 from trey, yet 29-52 from the deuce.  Knox was 2-8 [6 boards], Rivers 1-4 [5 assists].

Raptors were 17-52 from trey, and 17-31 from the deuce. 

Pretty even through most of three quarters. 

But their zone gave us fits.  Stay tuned.  Journey to Indiana tomorrow.  Good test, to be sure. 

People talking about Thibs' short rotation?

[Cough]

IR: Quickley, Burks, Spellman, Ntilikina, Smith, Toppin   

Randle had 16-10-5 in 38 minutes.  Missed all four of his treys, but 7-8 from the stripe.  Sure hope Spellman is ambulatory soon in advance of Obi.  We need so bring Julius down to more like 30 minutes. 

Likewise RJ with 37 minutes. 

With Rivers on board, and looking ready to contribute, Quickley & Burks on deck, slice 7-10 minutes off of RJ.  Likewise Bullock, who played 38 last night. 

Be interesting to see how Thibs has our walking wounded playing against the Pacers, an even tougher challenge then the Raptors.  Sabonis had a Nikola like stat line last night against the Cavs [25-11-7, 10-14, 2-2 trey, 3-3 FT].  Speaking of the shooters we need/could use, remember we traded McDernmott for Mudiay.  Last night he was 6-13, 3-6 trey, with 9 boards.  Should get more burn with TJ out for the year.  Olidiapo was 16-4-8.  Tough match up for our Nicked Up Knicks. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 01, 2021, 11:27:13 AM
Biggest missing piece is obviously Burks

Will be interesting to see how he gels with Rivers

Yes, Thibs has a decision with the Barrett minutes.  Most likely they stay pretty high - but as a coach, do you ever start dissuading the 3 point effort?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on January 01, 2021, 11:28:43 AM
Happy New Year gents

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 01, 2021, 11:37:28 AM
Toppin out another 6 games, minimum

We will get a longer glimpse at the small lineups with Knox at the 4.

Was nice to see his early success in last night's game but in the end it was more of the same from KK.

Making more 3s does make him more dealable, I guess.  As to contributing to wins, we need consistency.
Title: Thanks
Post by: carlos123 on January 01, 2021, 12:45:34 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on January 01, 2021, 11:28:43 AM
Happy New Year gents

Thank you Bank.

Ditto
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jerrya on January 01, 2021, 12:50:01 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 01, 2021, 11:27:13 AM
Biggest missing piece is obviously Burks

Will be interesting to see how he gels with Rivers

Yes, Thibs has a decision with the Barrett minutes.  Most likely they stay pretty high - but as a coach, do you ever start dissuading the 3 point effort?

Great points...this might tell us a lot if Thibs is the right guy to turn us around.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on January 01, 2021, 01:09:51 PM
I don't know if there are any Bill Simmons fans here, but he's did a great podcast with Jackie Mac and Bob Ryan (the best ever NBA writer) talking about the NBA old and new and its pretty good.

https://www.theringer.com/the-bill-simmons-podcast/2020/12/30/22205944/week-1-nba-notes-plus-nba-then-and-now-with-jackie-macmullan-and-bob-ryan (https://www.theringer.com/the-bill-simmons-podcast/2020/12/30/22205944/week-1-nba-notes-plus-nba-then-and-now-with-jackie-macmullan-and-bob-ryan)

Simmons opens with about 25 minutes of his take on wk 1 NBA and mentions my newest bestie, and the guy kid has never seen play but has a hot take all ready to go, Payton Prichard. PP gets some Sportsguy love.

Ryan's early story of taking a $0.25 trolley ride to the Garden, while a student at BC, to sit in the $2 Gaaahden cheap seat, to see Wilt (Bob was a Philly fan until he saw the light) mirrored my experience in the 60s.

it brought a smile.

Remind me later to tell you my Wilt story.
Title: BoZ’s casino
Post by: carlos123 on January 01, 2021, 01:23:07 PM
Quote from: Jerrya on January 01, 2021, 09:35:15 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 01, 2021, 08:58:21 AM
Jerrya, did you make a Win predication?
I don't have yours.
Not to late to take a guess ....

I don't think I put anything here but I did make a small wager on over 23.5

It don’t work that way Jer.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 01, 2021, 02:30:33 PM
Simmons opens with about 25 minutes of his take on wk 1 NBA and mentions my newest bestie, and the guy kid has never seen play but has a hot take all ready to go, Payton Prichard. PP gets some Sportsguy love.


Is this still off my initial comment on Celts use of PP?

I have seen Pritchard three times now.  I have been a fan from the start.

Makes rook mistakes.  What rook doesnt.  And spacing in this league is learned

But the jumper is better than I imagined.  Not his fault he is not used to the size he will see flying at him (open he is pure)

Other than that - I would just like to see Celts let him out of the cage a bit, so to speak.  Have to see that magic handle - as Hornets are allowing Ball.

Too often of course, as is today's game, the PG is limited due to the rebounder insisting on bringing it up court (and seemingly not to coach's dismay).  Days of the true point are dwindling.

Thanks for the nod on the Simmons cast.  I have just begun to open up the podcast world.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 01, 2021, 02:32:45 PM
With all the hooplah - and a win over Bucks, Knicks win pace if they lose in Indiana will be




24
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on January 01, 2021, 03:27:27 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 01, 2021, 02:30:33 PM
Simmons opens with about 25 minutes of his take on wk 1 NBA and mentions my newest bestie, and the guy kid has never seen play but has a hot take all ready to go, Payton Prichard. PP gets some Sportsguy love.


Is this still off my initial comment on Celts use of PP?

I have seen Pritchard three times now.  I have been a fan from the start.

Makes rook mistakes.  What rook doesnt.  And spacing in this league is learned

But the jumper is better than I imagined.  Not his fault he is not used to the size he will see flying at him (open he is pure)

Other than that - I would just like to see Celts let him out of the cage a bit, so to speak.  Have to see that magic handle - as Hornets are allowing Ball.

Too often of course, as is today's game, the PG is limited due to the rebounder insisting on bringing it up court (and seemingly not to coach's dismay).  Days of the true point are dwindling.

Thanks for the nod on the Simmons cast.  I have just begun to open up the podcast world.

I'm glad your a PP fan, I think he's shown a lot in a short period of time.

But Kid to be honest you changed your tune after I called you out on your Pritchard "stays in the corner" snark and comping him to a rook who might get 5 minutes a night in blowouts.

And your come back was "PP wasn't running the offense"

And I told you, No shit, with no pre-season and no summer league and "2 games in"  PP didn't know the offense. 5 games in he still doesn't.

At that time you seemed unaware that he was getting minutes,  and performing well.

Now that he's been getting some pub, you're a big fan.

So am I, but I'm waiting to see what he does and how he adjusts, as the league gets a read on him.

And they will.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 01, 2021, 03:35:16 PM
RJ has got to be hitting those night sessions. Quite a few of our guys do, and they need to keep it up well past the first game where they actually hit some shots again.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 01, 2021, 03:49:11 PM
But Kid to be honest you changed your tune after I called you out on your Pritchard "stays in the corner" snark and comping him to a rook who might get 5 minutes a night in blowouts.


The criticism was of the Celtics, not PP

Still is.

With Walker out, let the kid fly

You likely agree, to a point.

At that time you seemed unaware that he was getting minutes,  and performing well.


I think my initial comment was after their first game.

Now that he's been getting some pub, you're a big fan.


Its a new year - stop being a dick.  I posted admirably of Pritchard a few times pre draft
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 01, 2021, 04:06:49 PM
So am I, but I'm waiting to see what he does and how he adjusts, as the league gets a read on him.


At this early stage I just look at skillset - unless I see some timidity.  My comment was on usage
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 01, 2021, 04:16:02 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 01, 2021, 03:35:16 PM
RJ has got to be hitting those night sessions. Quite a few of our guys do, and they need to keep it up well past the first game where they actually hit some shots again.

Barrett losing his focus on the iron.  Its fairly obvious.  Some scorers like to watch the flight of the ball.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on January 01, 2021, 05:23:51 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 01, 2021, 03:49:11 PM
But Kid to be honest you changed your tune after I called you out on your Pritchard "stays in the corner" snark and comping him to a rook who might get 5 minutes a night in blowouts.


The criticism was of the Celtics, not PP

Still is.

With Walker out, let the kid fly

You likely agree, to a point.



Its a new year - stop being a dick.  I posted admirably of Pritchard a few times pre draft

I'm not a dick kid-just pressing you a bit on your bullshit.

and kid if I responded to every post of of yours that was unduly critical of the Celts, I'd hardly have enough time to watch the Celts.

I posted these about 5-6 weeks ago on SoSH re young guys and PT


11-21-2020 (before they got the TPE)

Quote from: bankshot1, post: 4175185, member: 9

Exactly. Gordo was more promise than delivery for the past 3 years. The cap stuff is what it is, I posted in the other thread this open PT for development to get young guys (Romeo, TL, GW, Nesmith, PP) game ready for the post-season. We are reliant on Kemba being healthy. But this is not a disaster.


from 11-30-2020
Quote from: bankshot1, post: 4185915, member: 9

I hope the Celts give a lot of time to some of the younger players (this year and last years crowded draft class and TL) and see what they have or can have, rather than give minutes to another vet, at least now. If they think they're a vet away near the trade dead-line then reassess.

pre-season prediction

Quote from: bankshot1, post: 4221719, member: 9

I think we see a .500-ish team the first 20 or so games, as CBS plays the bench a lot, and guys figure out roles, and then a ..600+ team for the last 50 or so games, as Kemba returns and the puppies are house-trained.

42-44 wins

I think they could be pretty good



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 01, 2021, 06:02:27 PM
I have given you credit on this board for knowing your team well

Your fault is in judging other fans, the neediness of such
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on January 01, 2021, 06:16:24 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 01, 2021, 06:02:27 PM
I have given you credit on this board for knowing your team well

Your fault is in judging other fans, the neediness of such

We all have our faults kid.

But as you're Elba's house dealer in hot takes, you should learn to develop thicker skin.

If you insist on posting stupid shit, and I press you on it to back it up, and if you are called holding a 10-high, I'll make fun of you and take the pot.

And I'll do it all day.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 01, 2021, 06:37:24 PM
I hope the Celts give a lot of time to some of the younger players (this year and last years crowded draft class and TL) and see what they have or can have, rather than give minutes to another vet, at least now. If they think they're a vet away near the trade dead-line then reassess.


pre or post Teague signing, which was the same day

just curious what your take was at SOSH on that move
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on January 01, 2021, 07:06:01 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 01, 2021, 06:37:24 PM
I hope the Celts give a lot of time to some of the younger players (this year and last years crowded draft class and TL) and see what they have or can have, rather than give minutes to another vet, at least now. If they think they're a vet away near the trade dead-line then reassess.


pre or post Teague signing, which was the same day

just curious what your take was at SOSH on that move

I liked the Teague and TT signing. Celts needed a PG in Walker's absence to help the offensive flow. They looked stagnant wthout a PG. I figured Smart and Teague would be sevicable until Walker returned in late Jan, or Feb. TT seemed a decent defensive big-rebounder inside presence. And he has a winning pedigree

I also liked adding some gray hairs to a pretty young team.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 01, 2021, 08:08:02 PM
Wow - Pistons give up 120 a game.  Celtics have 40 at the half.
Title: Hawks V Nyets
Post by: chipstern on January 01, 2021, 09:47:56 PM
Atlanta is FOR REAL. 

Damn. 

D'Andre Hunter is a 3&D wing on the rise.  Drafted right after RJ. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 01, 2021, 09:51:44 PM
League will adjust - but today on NBA radio they made a great point.  Hawks werent just going for no 8th seed.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 01, 2021, 09:52:41 PM
On a side note - what a treat it will be the next number of years to see Kevin Durant in action regularly.  Just love watching this guy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 01, 2021, 09:54:44 PM
Lets not make anything of it but Wizards will get their first win on a night that Westbrook rests
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 01, 2021, 09:58:13 PM
Second double double for Bobby Portis tonight.  Now has 5 straight double digit point efforts.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 01, 2021, 10:09:44 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 01, 2021, 09:58:13 PM
Second double double for Bobby Portis tonight.  Now has 5 straight double digit point efforts.

I always liked Bobby. 

Not much enthusiasm for him among the handicappers on this forum. 

Glad he is doing well.  Nice fit with the Bucks.

PS: Is Emmanuel Mudiay still in the league? 
Title: Emmanuel Kabeya Mudiay
Post by: carlos123 on January 01, 2021, 10:12:38 PM
Just asked Mr. Google for you Chip

Emmanuel Mudiay
American-Congolese basketball player
Emmanuel Kabeya Mudiay is a Congolese-American professional basketball player. He played high school basketball for Grace Preparatory Academy and Prime Prep Academy in Texas, where he gained much of the media's attention. Wikipedia
Born: March 5, 1996 (age 24 years), Kinshasa, Democratic Republic of the Congo
Height: 6′ 5″
Current team: Utah Jazz (#8 / Point guard)
NBA draft: 2015 (Round: 1 / Pick: 7)
Nationality: American, Congolese
Education: Prime Prep Academy, Grace Preparatory Academy
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 01, 2021, 10:28:19 PM
I think Mudiay is a free agent

AVDIJA tonight goes for 11-7-3 with 3 steals.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 02, 2021, 02:03:02 AM
Quote from: chipstern on January 01, 2021, 09:47:56 PM
D'Andre Hunter is a 3&D wing on the rise.  Drafted right after RJ.

kiiddo mocked me when I suggested Hunter might have been the better pick.
Hunter an easier player to structure around.
Hunter is 2.5 years older than RJB.

Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 24, 2020, 12:59:24 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 24, 2020, 12:45:46 PM
Is RJB better than DeAndre Hunter the guy picked right after him (#4 pick)?
Hunter a better defender.  Shot league average on 3's.  Made his FT's ...

Heh

Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 24, 2020, 01:00:29 PM
We'd be better off having drafted Hunter, Bo?

Stopppp..

Knix never can seem to find a PG or a 3&D wing.
Hunter was there for the taking (Culver too who was seen as a notch below, and has struggled so far in Minny)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 02, 2021, 02:18:52 AM
I've been pimping ATL.
They stymied BKY with Gallo, Rondo and Okongwu out.
Yeah, the first two aren't exactly Mr. Durable candidates.
But when they get a full squad they will be dangerous.
Imo, Hawks are the most fun team going.

Caught the 4Q v. Nets.
Reddish got hot, scored 8 points to keep ATL's lead up.  Look confident on 3's.

Are the Nets announcers under some sort of Dolanesque orders not to criticize Durant?  Early 4Q play, KD lazily sinks under a mild screen and Reddish pops a wide open 3.  Sarah Kustok who I usually like, notes that Jarrett Allen was frustrated with the D on that play, without noting that KD was the sleepwalking culprit.

A few plays later, KD dribbles through traffic and loses the ball, falls on it, but it's swiped away by Goodwin who gets tied up by Joe Harris.  And Kustok comes away praising KD for being the first on the floor.  No mention of the sloppy turnover, or that Harris got the tie-up.  And then on a play in which Jar Allen makes a terrific block on a Reddish drive, Kustok winds up praising KD's D earlier in the possession when Capela posted up.  Uh, Capela isn't much of a post-up threat ...

Maybe you just have to walk on eggshells with KD who doesn't like the media much.

I haven't seen much of the Nets yet, but I have seen a few lazy Durant defensive plays.  In I think G1 I tuned in the Nets game and about the first play I saw was a guy cut to the basket and get a pass for a wide open dunk, leaving Kyrie and KD to stare at each other wondering how that happened.

KD & KI combined 4-18 on 3's in the L to ATL.

If a game is close, BKY has two guys who can get their shot off any time.  But defense will be an issue.  KD looks like he's back to old pre-GSW habits. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 02, 2021, 02:39:15 AM
Chip was on the Hawks all night - but thanks for the rehash

Yes.  Barrett over Hunter.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 02, 2021, 02:43:10 AM
Knix never can seem to find a PG or a 3&D wing.


Took what they thought was BPA 4 years in a row.

TEAM DEFENDERS are what we want right now.  Early signs are positive.

3s are a different animal - but I like addition of Burks - and the Rivers delivery doesnt look too bad

Taking too many?  The entire league says NOPE.

We will watch - and at times suffer.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 02, 2021, 05:18:06 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 02, 2021, 02:43:10 AM
Took what they thought was BPA 4 years in a row.

Last two, not the two before that.

2017: I think with Franc we wanted a PG and took what we thought was the best PG available (between Franc & Jr. Smith as opposed to scorers such as Donovan Mitch or Monk)

2018: I think we went with high upside/high risk in young raw Knox, over the more experienced solid pair of Bridges, or injury risk Porter, and didn't really look at Shai.
We gambled on potential. 

Franc & Knox -- a little known int'l and a raw yute with a nice body -- were both risky upside picks, not BPA's.

2019: Barrett was probably acknowledged as the BPA.  As with Knox, a young physical specimen without a precise role/game.  A hard worker with a solid background/support network. 

2020: Agree the Knix considered Toppings the BPA and pounced.  Without worrying about team fit, in a deep draft (with Avdija, TyH, Kira all on board).

4 Top 9 picks and we probably have at most 2 starters and no Major Hits.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 02, 2021, 07:45:21 AM
Uber Kelly really struggling first 5 games: 27% / 4% / 60%
You know it's bad when you're three % splits don't even total 100.
Just 1-25 on 3's for 4%.
Uber is good on rebounds, blocks and steals -- but that shooting is abysmal.
UberK is actually the leading the team in boards which can't be a good thing for GSW)
Wonder what's wrong. 

Wiggins only shooting 37% FG.
WiseMan 41%
Scurry 32% on 3's.

GSW 40% FG as a team.

Looks like they are completely lacking a secondary ballhandler.
Dray finally returning will help.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 02, 2021, 07:59:01 AM
Weird stat line:

Saddiq Bey
45.5% on 3's
  9% on 2's.

Killian hayes:
23% FG; 20% on 3's.
Yikes

DET just 32% on 3's as a team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 02, 2021, 08:14:19 AM
KNIX:

26th in FG% - 43.6%
12th in 3Pt FG% - 36.6%
19th in FT% - 74.5%

30th in Point per Game 100.8
29th in FGA's & FGM

28th in Turnovers - 17.4



Title: Glass rookies
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 02, 2021, 10:15:58 AM
Wiseman to miss time, joining Okoro, Haliburton, Quickley and Toppin.

LaMelo rolls on impressively - Edwards and Avdija also solid.  Williams OK.  Havent checked in on Hayes.  Jalen Smith looked OK when I saw him but not sure he is getting Suns minutes
Title: WouldaCouldaShoulda
Post by: chipstern on January 02, 2021, 11:55:52 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 02, 2021, 02:43:10 AM
Knix never can seem to find a PG or a 3&D wing.


Took what they thought was BPA 4 years in a row.

TEAM DEFENDERS are what we want right now.  Early signs are positive.

3s are a different animal - but I like addition of Burks - and the Rivers delivery doesnt look too bad

Taking too many?  The entire league says NOPE.

We will watch - and at times suffer.

It's still very early. 

Duncan Robinson was 1-8 last night. 

I believe Rozier and Graham were a combined 2-21 [or something dire like that].

WHAT DOES THIS TELL US, CLASS?

I love DeAndre Hunter. 

But I love RJ as well. 

Not unlike the Toppin/DA conundrum. 

You can only draft one player. 

WouldaCouldaShoulda is pointless. 

If we'd taken Hunter, somewhere there would be recriminations as to how could we have passed on RJ. 

Point [GUARD] of fact, the Knicks have a history of seeing the player they REALLY wanted go one pick before.

Chuck Person
Steph Curry
Russell Westbrook
Jah Morant

Obi Toppin was a rare example of the player we'd targetted falling right in our laps. 

If he'd been gone at #8? 

Vassell's been playing short minutes, with a 3pt % around 41, and a 2pt around 31.  Did not play at all last night. 

Haliburton was showing well before he got hurt.

Avdija has been solid and versatile. 

Obi was 3-7 on treys before getting dinged. 

PS: Okongwu, the defensive center stalwart from USC, will be ready to play soon, making Atlanta a legit 10 Deep, with real depth at C/PF in Capela, Collins and Okongwu.  Agree with Bo for once....they are shaping up as a damn fun team...be more fun when Gallo and Rondo are ambulatory.  Sure do love Trae Young's mastery of the wrap around pass.  They really took it to the Nets last night. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 02, 2021, 12:00:38 PM
Haliburton roughly 50/50/90 in the early season.
Dinged his wrist, expected to miss 2 games.  Not exactly worrisome.

I missed this -- pretty impressive:
Quote
Haliburton scored eight of his 13 points in the fourth quarter as the Sacramento Kings pulled away to beat Denver 125-115 on Tuesday, spoiling a record-setting night for Nuggets big man Nikola Jokic.

The 12th pick in this year's draft, Haliburton made several sleek plays and gave the Kings a needed lift down the stretch. Sacramento's rookie guard hit two of his three 3-pointers in the final 9½ minutes and added a steal and fast-break layup during an 11-0 run that put the Kings ahead 120-108.

"Tyrese continues to impress," Kings coach Luke Walton said. "He hit some big shots. He had some big-time playmaking for us. He was a plus-20 on the night. He's one of those players, you feel confident when the ball's in his hand."

Haliburton played the entire fourth quarter, when he also had five of his six assists.

"I was just proud of our team being a young team playing against a team like that with experience," Haliburton said. "We could easily have folded after a bad third quarter like that. We got a little complacent. We thought we were really going to open it up in the second half."

The guy just looks like a player. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jerrya on January 02, 2021, 12:54:10 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 01, 2021, 04:16:02 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 01, 2021, 03:35:16 PM
RJ has got to be hitting those night sessions. Quite a few of our guys do, and they need to keep it up well past the first game where they actually hit some shots again.

Barrett losing his focus on the iron.  Its fairly obvious.  Some scorers like to watch the flight of the ball.

I would like to see Quick, Burks, Knox and Randle out there with him. Will make a world of difference.  His strength is going to the basket...some good outside shooters might open up some lanes for him to take the ball to the rim.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 02, 2021, 01:20:56 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 02, 2021, 12:00:38 PM
Haliburton roughly 50/50/90 in the early season.
Dinged his wrist, expected to miss 2 games.  Not exactly worrisome.

I missed this -- pretty impressive:
Quote
Haliburton scored eight of his 13 points in the fourth quarter as the Sacramento Kings pulled away to beat Denver 125-115 on Tuesday, spoiling a record-setting night for Nuggets big man Nikola Jokic.

The 12th pick in this year's draft, Haliburton made several sleek plays and gave the Kings a needed lift down the stretch. Sacramento's rookie guard hit two of his three 3-pointers in the final 9½ minutes and added a steal and fast-break layup during an 11-0 run that put the Kings ahead 120-108.

"Tyrese continues to impress," Kings coach Luke Walton said. "He hit some big shots. He had some big-time playmaking for us. He was a plus-20 on the night. He's one of those players, you feel confident when the ball's in his hand."

Haliburton played the entire fourth quarter, when he also had five of his six assists.

"I was just proud of our team being a young team playing against a team like that with experience," Haliburton said. "We could easily have folded after a bad third quarter like that. We got a little complacent. We thought we were really going to open it up in the second half."

The guy just looks like a player.

Looked like a player when he was my choice for the #8 pick.  Kam's too as I recall. 

Never expected either Obi or Dev to be there at #8. 

Was never clear why the Knicks coaches and brass seemed to dismiss him.  Can shoot, facilitate and defend, and has nice length at 6'5" 

Rap was that he had funny mechanics on his shot and was not super athletic. 

I am down with Obi and we ended up with Quickley, so all is not lost. 

I really hope he gets to play against doppleganger Trae Young on Monday, and so he can see how far he has to go to even hint at the level of play. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 02, 2021, 02:29:42 PM
Surprised Spurs took Vassell ahead of Ty H.
Haliburton at #12 is going to look like a mistake.

Real good interesting draft though.

Sabonis leads IND in Points, Boards, Assists.
Didn't understand why OKC didn't play him more.
Nor why there's been talk of moving either Sabonis or Turner.
Most teams would kill to have such a frontcourt.
Has always seemed a fine Off/Def combo to me.

IND shooting 60% on 2's, but just 33% on 3's.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 02, 2021, 03:01:04 PM
I like drafting sophomores who make prodigious leaps between year 1 & year 2. You get more fundamental play than you do from a freshman typically, good chance of work ethic, and a growth trajectory to support confidence. I feel like those guys either pop or figure out a role more readily than freshmen or upperclassmen, though that might be observational bias.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on January 02, 2021, 05:13:17 PM
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/30638260/paul-westphal-member-naismith-memorial-basketball-hall-fame-dies-age-70 (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/30638260/paul-westphal-member-naismith-memorial-basketball-hall-fame-dies-age-70)

Paul Westphal, a Hall of Fame guard who was a five-time All-Star and a three-time All-NBA first-team selection, has died at the age of 70, the Phoenix Suns announced Saturday.

Westphal had been diagnosed with brain cancer in August 2020.


Red Auerbach is often lauded as stealing other NBA GMs blind, and the examples are too numerous to mention, but one trade I think Red might have rethought was the Westphal for the Phoenix Sun's Charlie Scott trade after the '75 season. As i remember there was some concern over his court quickness and whether he would be the next Celt's star to emerge. While the Celts won a championship with Scott in '76 (ironically against the Suns-I was lucky to see the classic 3OT game 5 of that series) Westphal turned into a star, one of the NBAs best guards over the next several years, a solid 20 pt 5 asst guy, and a Hall of Famer on and off the court.

RIP Mr Westphal
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 02, 2021, 05:38:09 PM
Rutgers lost a close one today at home to Iowa who are the conference favorites ..  but held them far below their season average in points.

Rutgers has a very good defense but struggle to hit FTs at a 64% clip.  They have not fielded a full healthy squad yet all season.

Ron Harper Jr. suffered an ankle injury and missed a game and this was his first game back.

Rutgers needs to fix their free throw woes.  With their defense, size, and shot-making they could be dangerous team in march.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 02, 2021, 06:07:18 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 02, 2021, 02:29:42 PM
Surprised Spurs took Vassell ahead of Ty H.
Haliburton at #12 is going to look like a mistake.

Real good interesting draft though.

Sabonis leads IND in Points, Boards, Assists.
Didn't understand why OKC didn't play him more.
Nor why there's been talk of moving either Sabonis or Turner.
Most teams would kill to have such a frontcourt.
Has always seemed a fine Off/Def combo to me.

IND shooting 60% on 2's, but just 33% on 3's.

Turner/Sabonis is a juggernaut. 

Sabonis and Olidiapo for Paul George. 

A gift which kkeeps giving. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 02, 2021, 07:52:55 PM
Haliburton is non spectacular.  A better Frank.  High floor, I guess.

Ball was our target.  No real telling who was second

Turned game on to see the usual Dougie and TJ show.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 02, 2021, 07:59:23 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 02, 2021, 06:07:18 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 02, 2021, 02:29:42 PM
Surprised Spurs took Vassell ahead of Ty H.
Haliburton at #12 is going to look like a mistake.

Real good interesting draft though.

Sabonis leads IND in Points, Boards, Assists.
Didn't understand why OKC didn't play him more.
Nor why there's been talk of moving either Sabonis or Turner.
Most teams would kill to have such a frontcourt.
Has always seemed a fine Off/Def combo to me.

IND shooting 60% on 2's, but just 33% on 3's.

Turner/Sabonis is a juggernaut. 

Sabonis and Olidiapo for Paul George. 

A gift which kkeeps giving.

Sure.  But not really if they never win the East.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 02, 2021, 08:03:44 PM
By the way I have seen ZERO talk of Sabonis being dealt.  And Turner only for Hayward.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 02, 2021, 09:13:57 PM
Rivers can play a little

Heh

Nice win if we get it
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 02, 2021, 09:26:42 PM
I'm revising my win prediction to 30 wins.

What a game!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 02, 2021, 09:31:59 PM
The night sessions pay off yet again.

We are starting to look like we might become a professional basketball team that approaches basketball with palpable professionalism. That would be so nice.

Atlanta is on deck. It would be really nice to have Alec and Frank Available.

RJ, Randle, Payton, Mitch, Rivers, and Quickley were all excellent tonight. Reggie, Knox, Noel all pitched in some key moments.

Good game to build from.
Title: BoZ's Casino
Post by: carlos123 on January 02, 2021, 09:33:18 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 02, 2021, 09:26:42 PM
I'm revising my win prediction to 30 wins.

What a game!

Too late for revising. I'm stuck at 20!

I mean, it ain't my casino, but "rien ne va plus" already!

GREAT WIN!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 02, 2021, 09:50:02 PM
It appears the ZIGGY was placed on the Hawks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 02, 2021, 10:52:19 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 01, 2021, 02:32:45 PM
With all the hooplah - and a win over Bucks, Knicks win pace if they lose in Indiana will be




24

They didn't.  Win pace 36.
The four pom-poMers looking SMART.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 02, 2021, 11:09:52 PM
Given full health, I think our roster shakes out like this

Starters: Mitch Randle Barrett Burks Payton

Bench vets: Noel Bullock Rivers

Bench yute: Obi Knox Frank Quickley

Unready: Spellman Iggy DSJ

We need to cut bait on either Harper or Pinson to make a 2way slot for Skal. We have Zero margin in our frontcourt.

That is our biggest weakness right now.
Title: What If?
Post by: chipstern on January 03, 2021, 01:16:04 AM
We hired Kenny Atkinson? 

COUGH

The Knicks best free agent signing was TOM THIBODEAU.  Do you feel me, BoD. 

The manner in which the Knicks were prepared to respond to a second half whup ass by the Pacers on opening night, and to neutralize Sabonis, and to dominate the FINAL THREE MINUTES of the fourth quarter are all marks of a TOP TIER COACH, both in his prep, and in his in game reponses. 

Facil?

Why make ANY moves right now. 

Get everyone healthy, and ramp up the levels of competition up and dopwn the roster.  That approach appears to be....WORKING. 

Harper and Pinson are of course, slated for Westchester in the G League. 

Skal Labissière? 

He was SIGNED to be RELEASED.  To be Re-UPPED.  He is on an EXHIBIT 10 Contract, which reserves the Knicks NBAGL rights.  Sort of like what they did with Bryce Brown. 

He is slotted for the G League once that hits. 

Also, you are dismissing PF-C Omari Spellman based on what....exactly? 

All of our veteran FA signings/trade additions to the 2020-2021 roster--Noels [26], Burks [29] and Rivers [28], Bullock [29] and Payton [26]--are progressing nicely, and offering a significant level of competition with the pups.  Omari Spellman [23] is more of a puppy, in terms of age and experience. You are dismissing Spellman before he has had an opportunity to come back from injury and get into game shape?  He was a .391% three point shooter for the Warriors. One might grant the Knicks brass and coaching staff some leeway vis a vis developing talent, puppy and veteran alike.  Their decisions are looking pretty good right about now. 

DECISIONS. 

The premise, floated with some consistency by BoD, is that drafting Obi is a redundancy with Randle on board. 

Uh, I believe Julius's reponse to COMPETITION has been solid...oh wait, that's right, they are both lousy defensive players. 

Julius won the game tonight with a clutch defensive steal, full court sprint and slam, not to mention, keeping Sabonis from going off, when he torched is in the season opener.  Likewise, the presumption that Randle and Toppin is an either or?  Again, TALENT IS TALENT, and if Obi's footsteps have elevated Randle's game to its present level, well, nicely played, Leon Rose. 

I mean, Elfrid Payton is manning up big time and playing like a vet possessed.  Footsteps are causing him to elevate his game.  He was a force tonight on both sides of the ball, save for that one Frank Ntilikina telegraph pass.  Elfrid played winning basketball, and his clutch ball save and pass to Mitchell was key in the final minutes. 

FINALLY: The Quickley/Rivers back court made me giddy.  They were very effective individually and as a tandem.  Both made a strong case for regular rotation minutes as they leap frogged over healing Frank and Dennis. 

I WOULD EXPECT THE KNICKS TO WAIT LIKE 20-25 GAMES IN TO POSSESS AN ACCURATE SAMPLING OF WHAT WE HAVE GOT, AND ANY MOVES WE MIGHT WANT TO MAKE, WITH AN EYE TOWARDS THE ROSTER OR FUTURE ASSETS. 

Thibs ain't writing anyone off, and everyone is motivated to make a case for consideration.   

Tonight's win left me delirious, and I was totally taken by Austin Rivers fire and leadership, backing up his INSTAGRAM PEP TALKS TO NYC FANS, and Thibs getting everyone to buy in. 

WE ARE PLAYING FUCKING DEFENSE.  Can you imagine that? 

PPS:  Why in the name of LesterDawg's Left Nut and BoD's Abacus, did the Bucks let Malcolm Brogdon not match his offer with the Pacers.  I believe they copped Indiana's 2020 #1 (and a couple of second rounders), which I believe they used to select RJ Hampton at #24 before the Knicks tapped IQ at #25, and they promptly traded offladed Hampton to Denver as part of some convoluted 4 team trade.  I TAKE IT THEY DID NOT WANT TO PAY THE LUXURY TAX ON 4 YEARS X 85 MILLION,  but they were willing to give BB damn near that amount, and if they want to reup JRUE HOLIDAY this summer, it will cost them at least that much for an older player.  Every time Brogdon touched the ball tonight, I winced in pain.  Having Brogdon AND Middleton?  How the fuck could anyone cover The Greek Freak with those snipers spreading the floor.  Penny Wise And Pound Foolish. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 03, 2021, 01:36:42 AM
Sure, I will play

Spellman is FAT

How Atkinson would have the current Knicks seated had he been hired is an unknown

And the Hampton pick GOT Milwaukee Jrue.

Unless you want to put forth a scenario that says Bucks win it all last year with Brogdon and minus what they bought in his stead or that they had a better chance to win this year with Brogdon over Jrue, I think that rant is rubbish

Jrue re-upping is a pretty good bet
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 03, 2021, 01:47:14 AM
July 11, 2019
Signed Khris Middleton as a free agent.


Hmmmmm

Just after the Brogdon deal
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 03, 2021, 03:25:58 AM
Brogdon is pretty darned good. He has benefited by having talent around him his whole career though he deserves credit for helping those other guys shine.

Spellman is 6’8”, Skal is 6’10”. Spellman is a little better from 3 but much worse from two and doesn’t provide the same rim protection. I’m not giving up on Spellman, I’d just like Skal to be available for 50 games this season. He’s a skilled guy who has produced and has size on Obi and Noel. We have some guys you call frontcourt players, power forwards and centers, but only Mitch qualifies as big. Of the options at hand Skal comes pretty close.

Is there a single guard on our roster you’d play Harper ahead of?

Is there a single wing you’d take off the floor for Pinson?

I’d actually go farther and dump Smith Jr. for either O’Quinn or Dedmon to add backbone to our backbone in this uncertain season.

Noah Vonleh might also be available. I’m not sure any of these guys are demonstratively better than Skal right now, which is why I focused on the GLeague shuffle, giving us a look at a familiar big without having to shake the main roster.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 03, 2021, 09:46:29 AM
I like our C rotation now as long as all 3 are healthy, Randle being the third

Knicks actually played Bullock a couple minutes at the 4 last night, of course able to do so because of what opposition had out there
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 03, 2021, 09:56:02 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 03, 2021, 03:25:58 AM
Brogdon is pretty darned good. He has benefited by having talent around him his whole career though he deserves credit for helping those other guys shine.

Spellman is 6’8”, Skal is 6’10”. Spellman is a little better from 3 but much worse from two and doesn’t provide the same rim protection. I’m not giving up on Spellman, I’d just like Skal to be available for 50 games this season. He’s a skilled guy who has produced and has size on Obi and Noel. We have some guys you call frontcourt players, power forwards and centers, but only Mitch qualifies as big. Of the options at hand Skal comes pretty close.

Is there a single guard on our roster you’d play Harper ahead of?

Is there a single wing you’d take off the floor for Pinson?

I’d actually go farther and dump Smith Jr. for either O’Quinn or Dedmon to add backbone to our backbone in this uncertain season.

Noah Vonleh might also be available. I’m not sure any of these guys are demonstratively better than Skal right now, which is why I focused on the GLeague shuffle, giving us a look at a familiar big without having to shake the main roster.

Noah Vonleh?

Now THAT'S funny. 

Hey, why not Luke Kornet? 

And you are going to dump Dennis Smith for Skal. 

Think maybe it might be in our interests to try and build up Smith's value, if we are going to try and offload him?  But dump him for a third string center? 
Title: Julius Randle & Thibs
Post by: chipstern on January 03, 2021, 09:56:49 AM
Gee, for a lousy defender, Julius sure slammed the breaks on Sabonis last night. 
Title: And The Zach Randolph Disparagement Trophy Goes To...
Post by: chipstern on January 03, 2021, 10:40:22 AM
Julius Randle is the first player in @nyknicks history to average at least 20 PPG, 10 RPG, and 5 APG through the first six games of a season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 03, 2021, 10:45:51 AM
Randle is working

But he always has

Better bod this year, stamina - maturity

You have to project guys with his ability for small to moderate gains.  That wasnt done on this forum.

Julius WAS frustrating a year ago - but you really need to look at total body of work prior when projecting out a contract.  His late time in LA and year in NO were beautiful.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 03, 2021, 10:48:25 AM
Meanwhile if Burks gets back healthy we could have 2 of the free agents steals of the year, Alec and Austin Rivers.  With Randle now looking like a GOOD signing a year back - and by alla ccounts that Morris was, could Knicks be moving along wisely....?

Of course THE DRAFT, THE DRAFT, THE DRAFT!!!!!!  Come on - let us get a break and have Toppin pop.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jerrya on January 03, 2021, 10:55:34 AM
So far I love the Thibs coaching style and hope he will be here for a long time, but I've always had a little concern about having Woodson on the staff.  Can't understand why he was hired when he had his chance and did not do well. 

Just concerned if deep down inside, privately, he would have some sour grape and undermine Thibs or not put in his best effort and advice just to show it wasn't him. 

I keep looking for signs of a Freudian slip, but haven't seen enough comments or interviews to verify.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 03, 2021, 12:31:06 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 02, 2021, 07:52:55 PM
Haliburton is non spectacular.  A better Frank.  High floor, I guess.

2nd time you've compared TyH to Franc.
Ridiculous.  Zero in common.

Great game.
Didn't matter how the last 3 minutes went, Knix had played a strong game.  I thought NYK played the better team ball all night.  IND never looked coherent -- give the Knick defense some credit on that.  Too much INDividual play.  The Frog killed it 1Q, then Oladipo got to the FT line a ton 3Q, but he was going all 1-on-1.  And didn't get shots for Sabonis or Brogdon.  Oladipo just 3 assists.

My Turn struggled.  Mitch killed him on the boards.  Elf & RJB went at him.
Turner with just 4 rebounds and 1 block.  And every time MyTurn shot a 3, was a break for the Knix.  McDoug was also way off on 3's.

Elf & Mitch were dynamite.  RJB did a nice job pressuring the D.
Randle bounced back from a nothing 1st half.  Yeah, the steal was key, but what a lazy one hand push bounce pass from Brogdon.  Then Frog got blocked by Mitch on a 3.  So after a terrific game, Brigadoon was kinda the goat.

Knicks killed INDy on the boards.
Nice team game, which stretched to all 48.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 03, 2021, 12:41:06 PM
Funny, I saw the 1Q of ATL-CLE. 
Looked like a typical Hawk game.  Hawks 35-25. 
Then the Knix replay was available and I didn't watch any more.
Turns out the Hawks only scored 35 points in the 2nd half, were held to 91, and lost.
Both Cavs and Hawks 4-2 now.

With okoro out, Cav shave been starting Exum in a 3 PG/G alignment.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 03, 2021, 02:46:47 PM
Afternoon hoops today

Celts at Pistons

Will let you know if Pritchard is allowed out of the corner
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 03, 2021, 02:49:26 PM
Jerry

Was Woodson our coach last time we were good?

109-79 overall, after looking it up
Title: Woodson
Post by: chipstern on January 03, 2021, 02:56:04 PM
Quote from: Jerrya on January 03, 2021, 10:55:34 AM
So far I love the Thibs coaching style and hope he will be here for a long time, but I've always had a little concern about having Woodson on the staff.  Can't understand why he was hired when he had his chance and did not do well. 

Just concerned if deep down inside, privately, he would have some sour grape and undermine Thibs or not put in his best effort and advice just to show it wasn't him. 

I keep looking for signs of a Freudian slip, but haven't seen enough comments or interviews to verify.

Jerry

I was never a Woodson enthusiast and while he had a good run replacing D'Antoni midstream, gave way more credit to Jason Kidd for our winning ways, which dissipated after the PG retired. 

But sour grapes? 

REALLY? 

To the point where he would undermine THIBS? 

SERIOUSLY? 

Thibs seems to give great leeway and credit to his staff, likewise, there is NO QUESTION who is in charge. 

The proof is on the court, no? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 03, 2021, 02:57:27 PM
2nd time you've compared TyH to Franc.
Ridiculous.  Zero in common.


Show me some clips saying otherwise
Title: Re: And The Zach Randolph Disparagement Trophy Goes To...
Post by: FWK00 on January 03, 2021, 03:01:37 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 03, 2021, 10:40:22 AM
Julius Randle is the first player in @nyknicks history to average at least 20 PPG, 10 RPG, and 5 APG through the first six games of a season.

https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status/1345804444345237504?s=20 (https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status/1345804444345237504?s=20)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 03, 2021, 03:02:07 PM
Big stat game from Ty H

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=tyrese+haliburton&docid=608031025913857745&mid=53007D17F1D531222CF453007D17F1D531222CF4&view=detail&FORM=VIRE

All pretty basic
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 03, 2021, 03:20:37 PM
Kornet is a Bull. Let’s hope our bigs stay healthy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 03, 2021, 03:52:33 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 03, 2021, 02:57:27 PM
2nd time you've compared TyH to Franc.
Ridiculous.  Zero in common.


Show me some clips saying otherwise

Stop already.

Take a chill pill. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 03, 2021, 03:53:55 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 03, 2021, 03:20:37 PM
Kornet is a Bull. Let’s hope our bigs stay healthy.

I'm aware of that. 

Nailed to the pine. 
Title: Steve Mills & David Fizdale's Youth Movement--PLAYER DEVELOPMENT
Post by: chipstern on January 03, 2021, 04:06:10 PM
Ron Baker   
Trey Burke   
Damyean Dotson   
Henry Ellenson   
Mario Hezonja   
Isaiah Hicks   
Kevin Knox   
Luke Kornet   
Emmanuel Mudiay   
Frank Ntilikina   
Mitchell Robinson   
Dennis Smith   
Allonzo Trier   
Noah Vonleh

Four remain from this tank battle. 

Ten were either waived, cut or not extended new contracts or allowed to bolt as free agents. 

Waste. 

And from here, Mills went to PLAN Z, bailing entirely on youth development signing a host of vets in lieu of Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving.

Drafted RJ Barrett & Ignas Brazdeikis

Reggie Bullock
Elfrid Payton
Wayne Ellington
Taj Gibson
Bobby Portis
Marcus Morris
Julius Randle

Randle a keeper in second year of three year deal.
Bullock's option picked up
Payton dropped and resigned for $3 Million less
Ellington, Gibson, Portis dropped
Morris converted into Immanuel Quickley.

So, out of 23 developing puppies and wily vets, nine remain, and one converted into High IQ. 

Kadeem Allen and Alonzo Trier converted into Jared Harper and Theo Pinson.

LEON ROSE'S New Additions For 2020-2021

Obi Toppin
Immanuel Quickley
Nerlens Noel
Alec Burks
Austin Rivers
Omari Spellman

Oh, and....

TOM THIBODEAU
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 03, 2021, 04:10:27 PM
Musical chairs with young players not uncommon
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 03, 2021, 04:27:06 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 03, 2021, 04:10:27 PM
Musical chairs with young players not uncommon

Save that we basically wasted an entire year developing players we let walk [such as Mudiay, Vonleh, Kornet, Hezonja and subsequently, post-Mills, Dotson and Trier] neglecting the development of some young players we kept, such as Frank, Kevin and Dennis. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 03, 2021, 04:29:44 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 03, 2021, 02:57:27 PM
2nd time you've compared TyH to Franc.
Ridiculous.  Zero in common.


Show me some clips saying otherwise

Find me a 5 game stretch where Franc went 53% / 50% / 88%.
Yeah, he's just like Franc except  ... with good offense.

When I watched Kings, Tystick kept the ball moving nicely on O.  Not trying to do too much, just blending in and taking what was there.  I liked his defensive positioning.  Knew when to step in to slow a cutter, when to get back to his man.
 Looked very poised on both ends 5 games into his career.

Your link is broken ...
Here's Ty v. DEN: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_CmKrzn4Fs
Looks smooth and smart and fearless to me.  Just like Franc.

Here's pre-season v. Blazers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i88ZeiMkA94
A bit of everything on both ends.
Nice talent.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 03, 2021, 04:37:52 PM
Find me a 5 game stretch where Franc went 53% / 50% / 88%.


Whether I could find that or not doesnt matter
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 03, 2021, 04:43:07 PM
6 games in, Knix tied with BOS, MIL, BKY and ahead of TOR and MIA -- just as expected.

Weird standings really so far.
DEN and TOR tied for fewest wins with 1.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 03, 2021, 04:44:37 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 03, 2021, 04:29:44 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 03, 2021, 02:57:27 PM
2nd time you've compared TyH to Franc.
Ridiculous.  Zero in common.


Show me some clips saying otherwise

Find me a 5 game stretch where Franc went 53% / 50% / 88%.
Yeah, he's just like Franc except  ... with good offense.

When I watched Kings, Tystick kept the ball moving nicely on O.  Not trying to do too much, just blending in and taking what was there.  I liked his defensive positioning.  Knew when to step in to slow a cutter, when to get back to his man.
 Looked very poised on both ends 5 games into his career.

Your link is broken ...
Here's Ty v. DEN: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_CmKrzn4Fs
Looks smooth and smart and fearless to me.  Just like Franc.

Here's pre-season v. Blazers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i88ZeiMkA94
A bit of everything on both ends.
Nice talent.

Yes

Exactly what I have been seeing

I see what they mean about the shot now.  Looks a bit like Magic with the push action. 
Title: Re: Woodson
Post by: Jerrya on January 03, 2021, 07:47:04 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 03, 2021, 02:56:04 PM
Quote from: Jerrya on January 03, 2021, 10:55:34 AM
So far I love the Thibs coaching style and hope he will be here for a long time, but I've always had a little concern about having Woodson on the staff.  Can't understand why he was hired when he had his chance and did not do well. 

Just concerned if deep down inside, privately, he would have some sour grape and undermine Thibs or not put in his best effort and advice just to show it wasn't him. 

I keep looking for signs of a Freudian slip, but haven't seen enough comments or interviews to verify.

Jerry

I was never a Woodson enthusiast and while he had a good run replacing D'Antoni midstream, gave way more credit to Jason Kidd for our winning ways, which dissipated after the PG retired. 

But sour grapes? 

REALLY? 

To the point where he would undermine THIBS? 

SERIOUSLY? 

Thibs seems to give great leeway and credit to his staff, likewise, there is NO QUESTION who is in charge. 

The proof is on the court, no?

This is just conjecture...I hope it never happens or comes to fruition!
Title: The End
Post by: chipstern on January 03, 2021, 09:01:11 PM
And So Castles Made By Trump

Fall Into The Dump

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/15/cf/60/15cf6058a18effc8909dbd712df23413.jpg)

Inexorably

https://vimeo.com/429441468 (https://vimeo.com/429441468)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 03, 2021, 09:49:18 PM
He’s always been the butt of a sick yolk.
Title: Make America Vomit Again
Post by: carlos123 on January 03, 2021, 10:21:51 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 03, 2021, 09:49:18 PM
He’s always been the butt of a sick yolk.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51qc4k8DogL._AC_SL1001_.jpg)

MAVA
Title: Brief Announcement
Post by: elephant on January 03, 2021, 10:50:22 PM
Pardon me, but I'd just like to announce that the New York Knicks.....

(drinks water)

(slowly)

....now have a better record than the Brooklyn Nets.

Carry on.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 04, 2021, 12:14:56 AM
Luca missing time with a quad contusion. Mavs drop one to the Bulls.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 04, 2021, 02:44:51 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 03, 2021, 04:44:37 PM
I see what they mean about the shot now.  Looks a bit like Magic with the push action.

Or Kevin Martin who had a nice career as a sniper.
Which is the comp that Kings fans are making.
Kev Martian with defense -- sign me up ....

I liked the one play where TyH calmly popped a 28 footer, a step away for the center logo.  Waiting for Franc to do that ...
Funny, you hadn't even seen his 3-point form yet and yet were making dumb comparisons.

TyH looks like a very nice 2-way player with a good feel for the game.
Not super-quick or jump out of the gym athlete, but fluid and crafty.
(One nice play in those vids, Ty fakes casually going left behind a screen and then zips right and drives in for a layup -- the old Moochie Norris play).

THai has an all-around game which is often hard for some to recognize.
Already looks like the guy who keeps Kings halfcourt game flowing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 04, 2021, 04:55:55 AM
Let’s see how he does with the wear and tear, but he’s got a lot to like in his game.

I’m pleasantly surprised by a lot of young players so far this year.

It’s a good year for the Knicks to start functioning as a team. The talent race going forward is pretty damn intense.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 04, 2021, 05:16:37 AM
Bagely wants out of Sacramento. I think we should look into becoming a landing spot.

I’d offer Spellman, DSJ, the 2023 Dallas pick, and a 2023 2nd rounder (I think we’d still have more) for Bagely and Justin James who hasn’t really played for them yet, a 6’7” guy who played his college ball at Wyoming.

Bagely can fight with Obi and Noel for time behind Mitch and Randle. I think he’d quickly become first big off the bench.

Mitch Bagely Noel
Randle Obi Knox
RJ Bullock Iggy
Burks Rivers James
Payton Quickley  Frank

That’s a whale of a team that would be worth the loss of future assets.

I also wouldn’t say no if they wanted Noel over Spellman.

Title: Hope Springs Eternal
Post by: chipstern on January 04, 2021, 07:30:45 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 04, 2021, 05:16:37 AM
Bagely wants out of Sacramento. I think we should look into becoming a landing spot.

I’d offer Spellman, DSJ, the 2023 Dallas pick, and a 2023 2nd rounder (I think we’d still have more) for Bagely and Justin James who hasn’t really played for them yet, a 6’7” guy who played his college ball at Wyoming.

Bagely can fight with Obi and Noel for time behind Mitch and Randle. I think he’d quickly become first big off the bench.

Mitch Bagely Noel
Randle Obi Knox
RJ Bullock Iggy
Burks Rivers James
Payton Quickley  Frank

That’s a whale of a team that would be worth the loss of future assets.

I also wouldn’t say no if they wanted Noel over Spellman.

Brother Facil....God bless your hopeful spirit. 

Why on Earth would the Kings accept such a cheesy offer? 

He was the #2 pick in 2018 draft, one ahead of Luka? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 04, 2021, 08:06:36 AM
Absurdly one-sided.

How about something like:
Hield & Bagley for Randle & Knox + Burks and Smith.

Kings get more scoring and passing from their PF.
So Randle and TyH help Fox run the halfcourt.
Burks helps as vet SG to steady things if TyH gets overwhelmed at times.
Knox and Franc give them some yute wildcards.

Knix get a legit sniper in Hield, a significant SG upgrade.
A very young interesting Big Man rotation of Bagley/ObiT/Mitch.
(Bags turns 22 in 2 months).
Hield 27, should be entering his prime.  Randle a year younger.

Salaries match:
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yabfwnw9
I had to put in Franc instead of Burks since Burks can't be traded until Feb 5.

The core of the trade is Randle & Knox for Bagley & Hield.
It gives us 3-Pt shooting we don't have.  And a yute upgrade over Knox.
I'm just not sure of the focus and passion Bags and Buddy bring.
Would need to count on Thibs to toughen them up and keep them sharp.
Or stick with Randle.

Could tweak the trade by Knix giving Franc instead of Smith (if Kings want a little more) or Bullock instead of Burks (if you think we're giving too much).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 04, 2021, 08:09:52 AM
Back to Haliburton -

he does deliver a pass well.  And understands spacing, which is an underrated trait.  Frank gets himself or a teammate in bad spots too often.

I retract on the Frank comp, while pointing out what a grand DIS you felt that was (relaying your thoughts indirectly on FN).  The point was there is little french pastry - little making something from nothing - and thus the upside to spectacular is not there with TyH.
 
Could the scoring on things other than layups and open Js (what I call scoring when guarded) come with time? I suppose it can, yes.  But my feeling is you think Ty's ceiling is Chris Paul-like - and while I never like to place limits on athletes, I dont see this as a high percentage play.

Meanwhile, hard for me to pull for Sac too much with Vlade out the door.  Would have liked to have seen him succeed there.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 04, 2021, 08:19:12 AM
Guys - no offense - I like the trade talk as much as the next guy - but with Thibs system implanted bringing in new guys midstream not something that is happening

Times for Knicks to deal -

- Offseason
- Trade deadline if we think we are
a)  getting a  future asset for cap relief
b) strengthening for a push toward top ten in East

Big decision seemed to be looming on Randle but I am thinking we keep him at this point - at least into the summer.
Will Burks be a Marcus Morris-like cash in? 
And do we deal Frank/Dennis ahead of when we need to decide on matching?  (at this point it would appear both are gone)

Lets enjoy this group of - ahem - sorry - VETS and kids.  They work.  That makes them the pride of NY.  Thibs, in six games, has us back to that.  Now - avoid 3+ game losing streaks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 04, 2021, 08:25:00 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 04, 2021, 08:06:36 AM
Absurdly one-sided.

How about something like:
Hield & Bagley for Randle & Knox + Burks and Smith.

Kings get more scoring and passing from their PF.
So Randle and TyH help Fox run the halfcourt.
Burks helps as vet SG to steady things if TyH gets overwhelmed at times.
Knox and Franc give them some yute wildcards.

Knix get a legit sniper in Hield, a significant SG upgrade.
A very young interesting Big Man rotation of Bagley/ObiT/Mitch.
(Bags turns 22 in 2 months).
Hield 27, should be entering his prime.  Randle a year younger.

Salaries match:
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yabfwnw9
I had to put in Franc instead of Burks since Burks can't be traded until Feb 5.

The core of the trade is Randle & Knox for Bagley & Hield.
It gives us 3-Pt shooting we don't have.  And a yute upgrade over Knox.
I'm just not sure of the focus and passion Bags and Buddy bring.
Would need to count on Thibs to toughen them up and keep them sharp.
Or stick with Randle.

Could tweak the trade by Knix giving Franc instead of Smith (if Kings want a little more) or Bullock instead of Burks (if you think we're giving too much).

Nonsensical. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 04, 2021, 08:54:25 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 04, 2021, 08:09:52 AM
Could the scoring on things other than layups and open Js (what I call scoring when guarded) come with time? I suppose it can, yes.  But my feeling is you think Ty's ceiling is Chris Paul-like - and while I never like to place limits on athletes, I dont see this as a high percentage play..

Chris Paul?  Huh?  Where'd you pull that from?
The guy has played 5 NBA games.  Who's talking HoF level.
And I don't even think he's a PG.
More of a combo guard, a play-making SG.

TyH looks like he knows what he's doing on both ends.
And the results so far have been good.
I like his poise.  Looks like a solid starter down the road.
He's a rook, so a lot to learn, a lot to work on; but he already looks savvy and like he belongs.  Nice player.
Title: Dallas Tracking, 2021
Post by: chipstern on January 04, 2021, 09:00:31 AM
NY 3-3

Dallas 2-4

Luka out with a left quad contusion. 

I see that there has been some internet dissing of Steph Curry. 

He had a pretty good answer last night. 

30+Plus in two consecutive halves. 

How anyone can have the cheek to blow off Steph Curry is beyond me. 

HE ONLY WON BECAUSE HE HAD SUPERSTARS ON HIS TEAM. 

Let's see how Durant does this year without Steph, meaning no disrespect to Kevin. 

Last I checked, hoops was a TEAM GAME. 

As for Steph, and the GOAT, as Kerr pointed out, he us not a physical freak.  Only 6'3" 180.  Nothing but skill and a laser focus. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 04, 2021, 09:01:43 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 04, 2021, 08:54:25 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 04, 2021, 08:09:52 AM
Could the scoring on things other than layups and open Js (what I call scoring when guarded) come with time? I suppose it can, yes.  But my feeling is you think Ty's ceiling is Chris Paul-like - and while I never like to place limits on athletes, I dont see this as a high percentage play..

Chris Paul?  Huh?  Where'd you pull that from?
The guy has played 5 NBA games.  Who's talking HoF level.
And I don't even think he's a PG.
More of a combo guard, a play-making SG.

TyH looks like he knows what he's doing on both ends.
And the results so far have been good.
I like his poise.  Looks like a solid starter down the road.
He's a rook, so a lot to learn, a lot to work on; but he already looks savvy and like he belongs.  Nice player.

TH has game. 

And a positive attitude to go with his skills. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 04, 2021, 12:35:37 PM
Chris Paul?  Huh?  Where'd you pull that from?
The guy has played 5 NBA games.  Who's talking HoF level.
And I don't even think he's a PG.
More of a combo guard, a play-making SG.

Then what the F are we talking about?  Why are you even bringing Ty H up on the board if you dont think he can be a top player?

Nobody is saying he isnt league viable (which of course would make him a good King)

Yes.  I brought up Paul, since the skillset, minus the shot creation is a bit similar (sees floor, seems he may be able to lead in time, etc).  I didnt bring up a Trae Young - for obvious reasons - that they are so different offensively (and likely the other end as well).  But yes, Paul fits in the convo - as does a guy like Jrue.  If this isnt what you see Haliburton achieving, we're certainly cool.  but that would be top of the pops for him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 04, 2021, 12:36:28 PM
A couple more posts and we should ask Josh for a separate Ty H forum - or maybe call it ROOKIES
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 04, 2021, 12:42:59 PM
Let's see how Durant does this year without Steph, meaning no disrespect to Kevin.


(Francessa voice)   Careful....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 04, 2021, 12:45:16 PM
Funny this cimp comes up

My son actually came to me with a question the other day - I guess he and his buds were discussing

who has been more transformative (with regards to the league) - KD or Curry?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 04, 2021, 12:49:37 PM
By the way - by definition, Bo - combo guard is a point guard

You cant be combo without being able to run a team (see what Rivers did the other day)

And you cant be combo if you cant shoot it well (see Frank maybe being not long for the league as any type guard, maybe being a defending specialist such as a much lesser Matthis Thybule.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 04, 2021, 04:13:47 PM
No trading Randle, thanks. Fringe pieces and picks to upgrade the 8,9,or 10 spots in our rotation.

A little mayhem is good. We don’t want to finish higher than 9th seed.
Title: No trades
Post by: Kam on January 04, 2021, 04:33:59 PM
Keep the main pieces for now.

The only trades I would make (and even then I would not be initiating them but open to decent offers) would be draft picks for DSJ and Frank.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 04, 2021, 08:49:24 PM
Little bit of horseshit going down in HOU

Great game start in the Luka-Harden matchup - and Cousins is fucking ejected early quarter 2.

Jeeeee-zus, ref.
Title: Re: Do You Believe!
Post by: Jack Straw on January 04, 2021, 09:59:16 PM
WOW! totally not used to enjoying watching the Knicks... unbelievable!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 04, 2021, 10:04:12 PM
Yeah, such a fucking pleasure to watch these guys play.

Crazy.

And Quickley! Cool as a cucumber.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 04, 2021, 10:10:16 PM
Randle seemed to be oscillating between throwing the game away and saving it for us.

Trey Young cracked against our pressure when it counted.

Nice fucking win.

RJ & Quickley, Randle, Rivers, Mighty Mitch. Knox and Bullock with their moments and hard work from Elf.

Burks back would be nice.

How many bigs did we play this game?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 04, 2021, 10:12:14 PM
MY BOYS.
Title: Ya Gotta Love 'em
Post by: lesterluv on January 04, 2021, 10:13:01 PM
yup yup yup wow fun!

***though Bullock almost made Thibs regret that offense/defense substitution

***I'm assuming Thibs got Kam's special permission to let Quickley play through to the end

***On track for....42 W's, Pom-Pom girls are feeeeeeeling it
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 04, 2021, 10:25:09 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 04, 2021, 10:10:16 PM
Randle seemed to be oscillating between throwing the game away and saving it for us.

How many bigs did we play this game?

He did appear to lose some focus in the 4th but maybe he was just gassed.

I thought we were actually playing too unselfishly early 4th and asking Randle to bail us out. 

IQ and Rivers passed up a lot of open looks they later started taking.

The Quivers backcourt has officially arrived.

Payton didn't play poorly but he missed a ton of layups after doing a good job getting into the paint.

RJ Barrett is just consistently very good.   Love what he brings.  Outplayed Bo's guy DeAndre.

Quickley is a man!  Why was he a projected 2nd rd pick?  Thank goodness for our Kentucky connections.

Even Knox made a contribution, his three at the end of the 3rd was huge.

Randle, Quicks, Rivers, RJ, and Mitch with some big time defense down the stretch....

That's the finishing lineup.

With Payton, Burks, Bullocks, Noel representing a high quality vet bench.

This team is going places.

40 wins!
Title: Re: Ya Gotta Love 'em
Post by: Kam on January 04, 2021, 10:29:58 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on January 04, 2021, 10:13:01 PM


***I'm assuming Thibs got Kam's special permission to let Quickley play through to the end


He has my permission to finish games from now on.

A few more games like this and his play willl allow thibs to make him the starter without raising any ire in the locker room.

See Doug Pederson for an example of a coach who pulled his starter too soon and probably lost half his locker room.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 04, 2021, 10:39:44 PM
Even Knox made a contribution, his three at the end of the 3rd was huge.


Off a marvelous Randle dish - I agree.  Huge shot cuts it from 7 to 4.

Kev gets to his spots, no doubt.
Title: Re: Ya Gotta Love 'em
Post by: lesterluv on January 04, 2021, 10:41:14 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 04, 2021, 10:29:58 PM

A few more games like this and his play willl allow thibs to make him the starter without raising any ire in the locker room.


lol, lol, lol....ire in the locker room is created when a coach DOESN'T DO THE THINGS THAT WILL LEAD TO WINS...nobody cares a$$ about Elfrid Payton's ego, Thibs will do exactly what he thinks will produce the most victories...period. Whenever. However.



*** you should feel lucky I talked to you
Title: Pom Pom Gurls Of The World UNITE
Post by: chipstern on January 04, 2021, 10:55:49 PM
THIBS

4 & 3

WOW....DeFeNsE
Title: Most Intriguing Rookies So Far?
Post by: chipstern on January 04, 2021, 11:24:33 PM
Pritchard [26]
Quickley [25]
Haliburton [12]
Avdija [9]
Ball [3]
Wiseman [2]
Title: 2=4=6=8, Who Do We Appreciate?
Post by: chipstern on January 04, 2021, 11:30:17 PM
Julius

RJ 

Mitchell
Quickley + Rivers = QUIVERS
Title: Re: Ya Gotta Love 'em
Post by: Kam on January 05, 2021, 12:49:53 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on January 04, 2021, 10:41:14 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 04, 2021, 10:29:58 PM

A few more games like this and his play willl allow thibs to make him the starter without raising any ire in the locker room.


lol, lol, lol....ire in the locker room is created when a coach DOESN'T DO THE THINGS THAT WILL LEAD TO WINS...nobody cares a$$ about Elfrid Payton's ego, Thibs will do exactly what he thinks will produce the most victories...period. Whenever. However.



*** you should feel lucky I talked to you

Full of yourself much?   You should feel lucky I didn't say anything after Payton's huge FU game.

Also you only went pom-pom gurl after the Milwaukee win.  My pick preceded that victory.

You're picking after the bell has rung.
Title: pOM pOM gURLS
Post by: chipstern on January 05, 2021, 01:15:12 AM
There is a PomPom Auxiliary. 

Not everyone could be a first adaptor. 

Hell, I wear pink panties and didn't have the cheek to wager more than a final record of 33-39. 

All conscripts are welcome, whether or not they are Julius Deniers, Anti-Obi, Kenny Atkinson boosters, Mike Miller groupies....

I finally had the courage to text Miras and suggest it might be safe to come out and play. 

Last time I did that, it was a Fizdale False Alarm, and I do not believe I have raised my credibility much in his estimation. 

So Kam, if Dawg is feeling his Alpo, being an asshole is kind of a matter of principle with him, as it enables him to fight off fleas and sustain an appetite. 

An appetite...for Victory. 

As for Elfrid? 

No reason why he should not continue to start and get meaningful minutes.  Takes the pressure off of Immanuel, and based on the fourth quarter tonight, and 33 minutes for Rivers, who finishes out is what matters, and there is a lot Payton can teach HIGH IQ, which the rook has readily acknowledged. 

As for the future, Quick is winning coach's confidence, and making a very good case for nodding and smiling when he says he patterns his game after Lou Williams, CJ McCollum and Avery Bradley. 

I'll take it. 

Jazz on Wednesday a much, cough, STERNER CHALLENGE. 

Young/Reddish vs. Conley/Mitchell? 

A much higher level of experience and command, much as I dig Ice Trae. 

The Garden will be....rocking, so to speak. 
Title: Re: Ya Gotta Love 'em
Post by: carlos123 on January 05, 2021, 01:33:55 AM
Quote from: Kam on January 05, 2021, 12:49:53 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on January 04, 2021, 10:41:14 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 04, 2021, 10:29:58 PM

A few more games like this and his play willl allow thibs to make him the starter without raising any ire in the locker room.


lol, lol, lol....ire in the locker room is created when a coach DOESN'T DO THE THINGS THAT WILL LEAD TO WINS...nobody cares a$$ about Elfrid Payton's ego, Thibs will do exactly what he thinks will produce the most victories...period. Whenever. However.



*** you should feel lucky I talked to you

Full of yourself much?   You should feel lucky I didn't say anything after Payton's huge FU game.


Don’t feel bad Kamster.

After all, my doggie don’t talk to prawns, but he talked to you.

That’s a privilege! 🐶😜😉

PS. Good as he’s been, I hope Thibs is able to lower the minutes for Randle and Barrett. Not sure 40+ a game is sustainable for any player in the long run.
Title: Favorite Knick
Post by: Kam on January 05, 2021, 02:53:08 AM
Hard to pick a favorite Knick this year.

Austin Rivers has been a revelation and is a 2nd gen Knick who is saying all the right things we fans want to hear.

We drafted a rookie of the year candidate, just not the guy everyone thought.

Orange Julius has played at a LeBron-like level and could get some MVP nods if the vote were held today.

and RJ Barrett has the look of a future all-star do-it-all type.

This is the most fun start to a Knicks season since the JKidd year.

But we were supposed to compete that year.

If we make the playoffs this season wouldn't that be something?

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 05, 2021, 03:07:01 AM
I’m personally hoping we sneak into the playoffs through the playin bottom half, maintaining infinitesimal lotto odds, and that Dallas lottos too. I hope then that both numbers hit and we get two picks in the top 4. And I hope along the way we shock everyone and steal a chip. It’s a narrow fucking road, but as far as I know, as yet, it’s not a closed road.

If Mitch or Julius are down at all, we lose all those games.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 05, 2021, 03:59:18 AM
Also our Division games will likely be fairly brutal for our record.
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Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 05, 2021, 04:24:06 AM
http://mobile.twitter.com/Dolan_J_Trump/status/1346297296233918473?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1346297296233918473%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.postingandtoasting.com%2F2021%2F1%2F5%2F22214668%2Fknicks-113-hawks-108-quickley-quickly-becoming-my-favorite-knickley (http://mobile.twitter.com/Dolan_J_Trump/status/1346297296233918473?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1346297296233918473%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.postingandtoasting.com%2F2021%2F1%2F5%2F22214668%2Fknicks-113-hawks-108-quickley-quickly-becoming-my-favorite-knickley)
Title: Re: pOM pOM gURLS
Post by: lesterluv on January 05, 2021, 08:45:35 AM
Quote from: chipstern on January 05, 2021, 01:15:12 AM
So Kam, if Dawg is feeling his Alpo, being an asshole is kind of a matter of principle with him, as it enables him to fight off fleas and sustain an appetite. 

Kam understands. He knows I was Born Like This.

(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0255/7539/products/a7b678c2ff5bd878737a54c6eeba84abcfa5b2a0_540x.jpg?v=1584997352)

A bad samaritan averaging above average men
Rancid rants having rambling savages scavenging
For scraps, perhaps road kill if that
Gift of gab and he flowed ill


Of all the Americans who tragically died last year, this is the one who I will definitely mourn the most, yup, even more than RBG***

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/mf-doom-dead-1109072/ (https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/mf-doom-dead-1109072/)

https://youtu.be/rpaonSDPw7Y (https://youtu.be/rpaonSDPw7Y)

**** and Herman Cain...Luke Letlow......and Harrison Deal, lol, lol, lol
Title: Report From The Front
Post by: chipstern on January 05, 2021, 09:44:20 AM
Miras is on board...a TRUE BELIEVER, and a Thibodeau enthusiast. 

(https://images2.minutemediacdn.com/image/fetch/w_736,h_485,c_fill,g_auto,f_auto/https%3A%2F%2Fairalamo.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fgetty-images%2F2020%2F07%2F933276824-850x560.jpeg)

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 05, 2021, 11:59:49 AM
Nice win.
Rivers and Quicks have been a nice tandem.  I thought Rivers could be helpful this year as he has some passing/ballhandling chops.  Helps the rook PG.

Quote from: Kam on January 04, 2021, 10:25:09 PM
RJ Barrett is just consistently very good.   Love what he brings.  Outplayed Bo's guy DeAndre.

Seemed about even to me and by the stats (RJB played 7 more mins).
Hunter looked pretty poised.

While the problem with RJB is that he isn't consistent.
Hell, in this game, he was 0-4 on 3's before hitting a big late 3.
2nd, 4th & 5th game this year RJB really struggled.
He had a 4 game stretch of 0-21 on 3's.
His effort is consistently good.
He does a lot of good energy stuff.  His defense is a bit up and down.  But he's a pup.

Knox was looking like a disaster, with bad fouls and such, then popped a pair of late 3Q 3's that got the Knix back in it.  Key shots.  Hawks were largely leaving Knox open to help and he made them pay late 3rd.

Randle & Barrett leading the league in minutes.  Yeah, we have some guys out, but that needs to come down.
I liked how Rivers was a having a tough time guarding Trae, but then got an offensive foul on Young late.

Game of runs.  Knix opened up a 10 Pt 1Q lead, and in an eyeblink Hawks were up 2 with a 14-2 outburst.

Impressive Knix can win with their starters unable to hit 3's (1-12 in this game).
Knix have been boarding quite well.  Randle and RJB this one.  Mitch was big last one.

Cam Reddish doesn't really have his game together yet.
Huerter missed some pretty good looks.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 05, 2021, 12:35:46 PM
Huerter has a nice floor game

Getting lost in their roster, a la Joe Harris in BK, though Joe gets more minutes

Both guys getting less shots than they would with some other teams.

I will take Huerter down the road for our squad, surely
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 05, 2021, 12:44:53 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 24, 2020, 02:52:11 PM
I've gone through it before, more than once. 
Part of my problem is the draft pick.

Draft Avdija - starting SF
Sign Wood as FA (he went for $13M to a different crappy team)

Toss a big offer at FVV.  Van Fred signed for 4/$85M.
Maybe for 4/$95 and a chance to run his own team we get him.
(start him at $25M dropping $1M per year; a heap more than the $19M or so he's gonna start at for TOR).  Extra $10M total, but an extra $5 or $6M upfront, first year.

FVV - RJB - Avdija - Randle/Wood - Mitch
That's an interesting team.
Much better than what we did.
If we had that in place, it could be tempting for FVV along with the extra moolah.

If you don't get FA FVV:

I'd rather Rondo than Elf, or swing some deal for Rubio, he got shuffled around plenty.  PG was always going to be the tough get.  Elf at leats affords some continuity, but he'd likely be my Plan D.

And then another option would be to scrap Woods and drop the $18M per year offer ATL did for Bogdan.  Sweet shooter with a pretty good handle.  RJB/Bogdan/Avdija would be a nice set of wings.  Imagine having quality wings.  What a concept.

Hate to kill you Bo but this hasnt aged well
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 05, 2021, 12:49:45 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 24, 2020, 04:08:42 PM
I can agree with BO on Avidja over Toppin.  Toppin was my 3rd choice  (1.TyH 2. Avidja 3. Toppin 4. Vassell)

But then you can't assume FVV is leaving a contender for the chance to play with Avidja and run the Knicks.   That's a bridge too far.

You can't assume you're going to get Christian Wood because now you have FVV who is here because you have Avidja.  That's a bridge to outer space.

Oh and Gallinari sees all that and wants back in too.

Fantasyland.


Avidja vs. Toppin will be something to debate for years to come.   But that's it.   We draft Avidja and its likely the same exact team just with Avidja not Obi.

As long as I was there checking on responses to adding Rivers, have to give KAM some love for hitting this out of the park
Title: Chamaco Looking Back
Post by: carlos123 on January 05, 2021, 01:01:25 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 05, 2021, 12:44:53 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 24, 2020, 02:52:11 PM
I've gone through it before, more than once. 
Part of my problem is the draft pick.

Draft Avdija - starting SF
Sign Wood as FA (he went for $13M to a different crappy team)

Toss a big offer at FVV.  Van Fred signed for 4/$85M.
Maybe for 4/$95 and a chance to run his own team we get him.
(start him at $25M dropping $1M per year; a heap more than the $19M or so he's gonna start at for TOR).  Extra $10M total, but an extra $5 or $6M upfront, first year.

FVV - RJB - Avdija - Randle/Wood - Mitch
That's an interesting team.
Much better than what we did.
If we had that in place, it could be tempting for FVV along with the extra moolah.

If you don't get FA FVV:

I'd rather Rondo than Elf, or swing some deal for Rubio, he got shuffled around plenty.  PG was always going to be the tough get.  Elf at leats affords some continuity, but he'd likely be my Plan D.

And then another option would be to scrap Woods and drop the $18M per year offer ATL did for Bogdan.  Sweet shooter with a pretty good handle.  RJB/Bogdan/Avdija would be a nice set of wings.  Imagine having quality wings.  What a concept.

Hate to kill you Bo but this hasnt aged well

It looks more like you’re giddy with your find.

Chamaco, you must have a whole lotta time to waste to go all the way back to November just to “kill” BoZ.

What’s your point?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 05, 2021, 01:10:30 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 22, 2020, 08:03:30 PM
Randle, Frank, Knox for a big name does set up right now though I want to see Julius one more year, with better cast

Nod to ME

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 05, 2021, 01:14:34 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 22, 2020, 08:54:08 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 22, 2020, 08:43:36 PM
John Wall.

Hmmmmmmm....Interesting

Thirty Years Old. 

Strike One.

Major Asshole Coming Off Bad Injury [Played 41 Games in 2017-2018, 32 games in 2018-2019, ZERO in 2019-2020]

Strike Two

2020/21    $41,254,920
2021/22   $44,310,840
2022/23   $47,366,760

Strikes THREE FOUR FIVE AND SIX

Just for GIGGLES....

Went to the REAL GM Trade Checker

Randle, Knox, Smith, Bullock

For

James Harden

Trade Accepted

Let's Assume some of those #2 picks, and one or both of the Dallas #1 picks. 

Or some sweetning on some of our recent aquisitions.

This is fun (not knocking this one, Chip)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 05, 2021, 01:18:46 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 23, 2020, 01:17:20 AM
I used to dislike Au Revoir a lot.
Now I'm more or less neutral on him.
He's upped his defense where he's a pest.
He'll make mistakes, but he also pressures guys and puts forth could effort and makes ballhandlers uncomfortable often enough.

He understands his limitations better and doesn't chuck or take bad shots much anymore.  He's a solid 3-point shooter who can unleash a strong drive now and then.  One thing I like about Rivers game is that he's a bit unpredictable on both ends.  If he going to go chest to chest and keep flicking his hand in, or sag off and play positional D.  Is he going to bomb a 3, make a quick drive, or maybe even pass.

Rivers is always looking to make an impact, so you can forgive some bad shots or sloppy D now and then.  He also has the potential to get hot and go on a scoring run, which is always useful.  And we're paying him peanuts.  I just don't get why he couldn't find a $3M deal with a playoff team.  Why'd he could here?
As long as Rivers isn't starting, i'm fine with him.
But still have no clue what the Knickers be up to ...

Well done, Bo

Leadership wasnt mentioned but I am sure was also on your mind
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 05, 2021, 01:19:52 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 23, 2020, 03:12:05 AM
We’re a fast team with good defenders at the point of attack and at the cup. We have dangerous shooters who are spry enough to get open and a number of players throughout the roster who can put it on the floor and get to the cup. We favor mobile big men over wide bodied bruisers. We are thinnest at SF where the LeBrons, Kawhis and J Tatums of the league will cause us serious problems. Expect us to do things faster and with more purpose on aggregate than we have in previous iterations.

None of our players are coming in with the burden of being clearly overpaid for their role or with expectations of being the team’s savior.

So far, I think these are all good signs.

FAC hit the mark as well
Title: Re: OMARI SPELLMAN [Bo D & The Trojan Women]
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 05, 2021, 01:23:26 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 23, 2020, 12:52:06 PM
While BoD is engaged in one of his interminable WouldaCouldaShoulda laments, now rallying the Trojan Women for a period of abject mourning regarding the tragic lost opportunity of Harry Giles [who could indeed be a nice player, but we just engaged with his doppleganger in Nerlens Noels]....

Our Newest Knick. emerging not from Kentucky blue but the estimable VILLINOVA program where he was part of a starting five that included

Jalen Brunson           JR   G   6-3   199   18.9 Pts, 3.1 Reb, 4.6 Ast

Mikal Bridges           JR   F   6-7   191   17.7 Pts, 5.3 Reb, 1.9 Ast

Donte DiVincenzo   SO   G   6-5   200   13.4 Pts, 4.8 Reb, 3.5 Ast

Omari Spellman      FR   F   6-9   260   10.9 Pts, 8.0 Reb, 0.8 Ast

Eric Paschall           JR   F   6-8   255   10.6 Pts, 5.3 Reb, 2.2 Ast

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=md9XxtPA2UA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=md9XxtPA2UA)

OMARI SPELLMAN

This was shared with me by Elba Alumnus, E-Mann, and I must say, it is pretty dope. 

Spellman is a spry, athletic and broad beamed bruiser (think Montrezl Harrell), with a significant motor, and can REALLY KNOCK DOWN THE THREE. 

His Villinova stats in 40 games for his one and done 2017-2018 season. 

PTS
10.9

TRB
8.0

AST
0.8

FG%
47.6

FG3%
43.3

FT%
70.0

eFG%
57.3

An interesting pickup. And again, while mourning the tragic missed opporunities of Christian Wood (who did indeed show significant improvement and upside in a breakout 2019-2020) and Harry Giles, they promise nothing that we might not expect from Obi Toppin and Nerlens Noels, let alone Omari Spellman.


OUCH.

Sorry, Chip.  Wood is a stud. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 05, 2021, 02:47:16 PM
Giles is also being super efficient & per minute scary in a very limited role so far.

I thought Spellman was off to a good start in Atlanta. If he can get himself fit and bouncy there’s no reason he couldn’t do well here. It’s also worth keeping an eye on what Obi grows into over the course of the season. If he somehow figures out how to check SFs and contain guards on dribble drives, Obi as a 3-4 like Knox would be on a better path to seeing solid minutes in our emerging rotation.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 05, 2021, 03:10:41 PM
http://hoopshype.com/2021/01/05/new-york-knicks-julius-randle-most-improved-player-passing-assists/ (http://hoopshype.com/2021/01/05/new-york-knicks-julius-randle-most-improved-player-passing-assists/)
Title: Well, Now [Julius & RJ]
Post by: chipstern on January 05, 2021, 04:29:42 PM
First Knick duo since 1977 to each post at least 25 PTS, 10 REBS & 5 AST in a game.
Title: Clickbait
Post by: chipstern on January 05, 2021, 04:52:35 PM
Came Upon This Notion.

File Under More Cats From Kentucky.

Blogster Suggested Trading Dennis Smith Straight Up For Malik Monk. 

Change Of Venues Might Do Both A Bit Of Good.

Not Sure MM Would Find More Playing Time In NYC, Though. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 05, 2021, 05:58:46 PM
IQ is playing the Monk role.  THat was a deal for summer '20 - but we're good.

Being undersized wont hurt Quicks if he produces and they dont isolate size against him continuously.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 05, 2021, 06:11:15 PM
Fuck Malik Monk. If we’re looking for a marginal Wildcat with some upside, sign me up for Weyen Gabriel. There’s a player who would actually add something to our roster.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 05, 2021, 06:14:01 PM
Seems we missed on Keldon Johnson, who we might have been able to grab had we dealt back up into round 1 after the RJ pick.  Spurs did it again.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 05, 2021, 06:25:07 PM
For Pistol Pete fans, with sadness:


https://www.nba.com/news/the-final-day-of-pistol-pete-maravich
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 05, 2021, 06:35:08 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 05, 2021, 06:11:15 PM
Fuck Malik Monk. If we’re looking for a marginal Wildcat with some upside, sign me up for Weyen Gabriel. There’s a player who would actually add something to our roster.

Just passing this along as a pubic cervix,

You and I and The Maven [Nevermore] are in accord. 

Malik offers us NOTHING we do not already have in HIGH IQ, who is younger, healthier, a better shooter, defender and facilitator.

As Kiid noted, that ship has passed.  Would've made more sense for MM than Ellington. 

Anyway, as a combo guard, MM would be well behind Rivers and Quickley, let alone as a wing, behind Barrett, Burks and Bullock, and that still leaves Payton, let alone French Frank.   

Anyway: RJ, Reggie, Alec, Austin, Immanuel, Elfrid, Frank, Dennis.  Three is a crowd and eight is a scrum. Knox sort of on the cusp of Wing/Big. 

I believe Facil's concerns about big man depth are legit. 

With Mitchell and Julius, we NEED to chip in for some get well soon cards....

Frank Ntilikina and Obi Toppin remain out for tomorrow’s Knicks-Jazz game, the team says. Dennis Smith Jr. upgraded to probable, Omari Spellman too. Alec Burks and Nerlens Noel are questionable
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 05, 2021, 06:45:24 PM
I wonder what Knicks were thinking when we didnt take McGee.

Maybe the same as Ainge and M Turner - a character/personality thing?

After all, LeBron didnt seem to lobby to keep JaVale.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 05, 2021, 06:54:13 PM
Tonight   NBA TV


Lakers-Grizz  8 PM
Bulls-Blazers  10:30


Utah at Nets   7:30
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 05, 2021, 08:22:14 PM
Quote
He's upped his defense where he's a pest.
He's a solid 3-point shooter who can unleash a strong drive now and then. 
Rivers is always looking to make an impact.
One thing I like about Rivers game is that he's a bit unpredictable on both ends.

Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 05, 2021, 01:18:46 PM
Leadership wasnt mentioned but I am sure was also on your mind

I believe that was my first post on Rivers.  And afterwards I was talking more about his ballhandling and passing, which I assumed we'd be desperate for.  But Randle has done pretty well at Point Forward and Quicks has been quite useful early on.
Though who knows how long you can account on either/both of those.  I thought Rivers combo G capabilities would get him minutes, and one of Bullox/Burks would get squeezed out.  I suspected Thibs might prefer Reggie's D.  But Burks started the season hot.  So we have a nice vet SG logjam to work with.

I really didn't think of leadership with Au Revoir.  But he is a vet, and is Doc's son, so good if he is asserting himself some in the locker room.  Actually in some other stops, he was seen as brash and annoyed some teammates, but then again he was trying to live up to a big contract and then was playing for his father.  Also, players mature.  Hell, that's one of the major stories of the NBA.

Sometimes you are better off getting a guy on his 2nd or 3rd contract after he's figured out his role, improved his weaknesses and has just matured as a player and person.  Plus with drafting players so young (often 19), it's not uncommon for them to be iffy on their rook deals and better on their 2nd or 3rd contracts.  That's likely to be the case with Knox and Franc.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 05, 2021, 09:34:39 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 05, 2021, 12:44:53 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 24, 2020, 02:52:11 PM
Draft Avdija - starting SF
Sign Wood as FA (he went for $13M to a different crappy team)
Toss a big offer t FVV. 

FVV - RJB - Avdija - Randle/Wood - Mitch
That's an interesting team.
Much better than what we did.
If we had that in place, it could be tempting for FVV along with the extra moolah.

If you don't get FA FVV:

Hate to kill you Bo but this hasnt aged well

Why?

Van Fred the only Rap who has played well.  (and Boucher)
44% FG; 39% on 10 3's per game
22 / 5.5 / 5/.5.  PER of 21.

Wood and Avdija (or TyH).
Though in fairness, ObiT has played just one game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 05, 2021, 09:58:00 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 05, 2021, 09:34:39 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 05, 2021, 12:44:53 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 24, 2020, 02:52:11 PM
Draft Avdija - starting SF
Sign Wood as FA (he went for $13M to a different crappy team)
Toss a big offer t FVV. 

FVV - RJB - Avdija - Randle/Wood - Mitch
That's an interesting team.
Much better than what we did.
If we had that in place, it could be tempting for FVV along with the extra moolah.

If you don't get FA FVV:

Hate to kill you Bo but this hasnt aged well

Why?

Van Fred the only Rap who has played well.  (and Boucher)
44% FG; 39% on 10 3's per game
22 / 5.5 / 5/.5.  PER of 21.

Wood and Avdija (or TyH).
Though in fairness, ObiT has played just one game.

Why is Wood attached?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 05, 2021, 10:08:14 PM
Kyrie 29 in 30 minutes

Nets over Jazz by 34
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 05, 2021, 10:10:01 PM
A smart FA signing.  Building a team.
Woods instead of signing both Rivers and Burks (I would have skipped Burks).
I'm still wondering why DET wanted to pay Jer Grant $20M instead of Woods $13M.

I like the Noel pick up, but Willie C-S was out there for the same $4M.  I mentioned him in the off-season (along with Giles).  WCS kind of enigmatic, but young and big and I just saw him have a nice game in a spot start.  SacKings let a lot of young players slip away.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 05, 2021, 10:32:25 PM
I think Mitch's efforts are limiting the positive showings of the very capable Nerlens Noel, who is an excellent Knick - having been a strong sign.

Double N will be heard from plenty.  Shit happens in long seasons.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 05, 2021, 10:52:59 PM
I liked the Noel pickup.
It's just that he has a very similar profile to Mitch (not a bad thing, but not variety).
In years past, Noel has seemed a limited minute guy (15-20) who makes mistakes in long stretches.  I saw one game last season in which Nawlins blocked 3 shots on one possession.  I've also seen his effectiveness just drop off (conditioning issues?  focus?)

In spurts Father Noel is fairly Mitch-like.  Though Mitch more of a lob threat.  And Mobinson with the unique ability to guard the perimeter effectively unlike Noel.  We've already seen two endgames in which Mitch shut things down when the opponents obviously needed a late 3.  Mitch blocked The Frog's 3, and he didn't let the Hawks get one up easily.  Mitch quite a defensive weapon late in the game with a slim lead and the other team needing a 3.  I suspect teams will stop using their Big to set picks and instead station Mitch's man down by the basket, and use their PF or others to set screens to free up shooters.  You don't want Mitch lurking near a shooter in an obvious 3-point situation.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 05, 2021, 11:13:20 PM
Lakers title win has prevented me from razzing them for passing on MITCH, who supposedly they had given a first round guarantee to.

Mitch second in Win Shares from that draft, behind Luka and ahead of T Young
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 05, 2021, 11:18:04 PM
Memphis another team, with NY, that gives real tough effort night in, night out

Valenciunus with 7th double double in 7 tonight in close loss to LAL

Kyle Anderson emerging.
Title: Bye Bitch
Post by: Kam on January 06, 2021, 02:17:19 AM
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0690/5113/files/Screen_Shot_2020-03-26_at_4.33.44_PM_1024x1024.png?v=1585323733)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 06, 2021, 04:38:53 AM
I've noticed that opponents attack Knox.
Sol Hill did last game, and others have seen Knox on them and go right at him.
One of the problems with getting a rep as a poor defender is that then guys test you more than usual.  And some teams will seek you out on PnR's.
An issue for lots of young players.
But it's easier when you have a rep as a solid defender (except when you get tasked with guarding high level offenders).  Defense is mostly effort and awareness.

Speaking of, I saw a quarter of HOU-DAL.
One play, Harden was watching the action in the middle of the floor while his man darted baseline past him to the basket, so Harden stood there guarding air while his man Powell dunked.  A fun throwback non-effort.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on January 06, 2021, 06:39:46 AM
KK is perceived as being soft. Could improve with experience. RJ is the real thing, a star in the making. Thibs still seems to be able to communicate with the youths and create a very winnable system centered around a point forward. At least early on the knix can compete with second tier teams.
Title: 2021 just keeps outdoing itself....
Post by: lesterluv on January 06, 2021, 12:33:08 PM
first he helps send her rancid racist a## packing, now he's gonna buy her team...

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/06/sport/lebron-james-kelly-loeffler-la-lakers-atlanta-dream-wnba-spt-intl/index.html (https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/06/sport/lebron-james-kelly-loeffler-la-lakers-atlanta-dream-wnba-spt-intl/index.html)

the gifts of the new year just keep on coming, Knick wins, Warnock, Ossoff, too good, just too good...


***would have added Luke Letlow too, but he just sneaked in to the 2020 ledger
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 06, 2021, 12:46:16 PM
I think we should hold the strides made by Knox in positive light.  He seems to be breathing better in game, slowing the game down to where he can get to spots and knock down attempts

Effort is good - as a "poor" defender we can ask for that - and are getting it.

Its true that things happen for Knox just based on his athleticism.  That has allowed him to stay in good organizational light through his struggles - and through 7 games is paying off not as much as we hope in total - but more than it had been

Check the wild drives to your right hand - OR come up with a stronger version of it to give you more space - OR learn to better use your body to get into the defender so that you can bounce off and have that space, maintaining your cool as you settle and deliver - OR have a COUNTER move to the left - where you can either CROSS (Euro, whatever) or STOP and reverse court, finishing going left, preferably with a dunk.

Defensively - quick feet, vision in proper place on the man with the ball in front of you, balance - and continued and better communication with mates - so that your athleticism pays further dividends at that end

I have no negative thoughts for KK at this time, as he has improved.  Hoping it keeps up.  If not - and he leaves us, I thank him for working his craft while here.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 06, 2021, 01:13:31 PM
The starting SF slot is there for the taking.
Knox still makes a good deal of mental mistakes.
But increasingly he balances that with good play.
I still think he can become a near all-star quality SF, say a Caron Butler or Rudy Gay level player.  But it's going to take work and determination.  Needs to use his physical tools better and play wiser.  It's a process.  Hope NYK has the patience and he sticks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 06, 2021, 01:23:21 PM
Lets not get too crazy
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 06, 2021, 01:28:37 PM
If you can believe it - Knox per 36 numbers actually down from a year ago

FG% is up - but to just .395

Onward....yes, with hope.  But your goal (Butler, Gay) does seem a  bit lofty for Kev.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 06, 2021, 01:44:19 PM
2 point attempts per 36 is telling for Knox

9.2 in rookie year

6.2last year

And just 4.4 in '20-'21

.474 this year.  Previous years were .387 and .391

I dont have the dunk numbers but usually guys that dunnk a lot have pretty good 2-pt %
Title: KNOX
Post by: chipstern on January 06, 2021, 01:48:20 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 06, 2021, 01:13:31 PM
The starting SF slot is there for the taking.
Knox still makes a good deal of mental mistakes.
But increasingly he balances that with good play.
I still think he can become a near all-star quality SF, say a Caron Butler or Rudy Gay level player.  But it's going to take work and determination.  Needs to use his physical tools better and play wiser.  It's a process.  Hope NYK has the patience and he sticks.

He has been playhing with a higher motor and better focus. 

He has been focused on defense, making blocks and stops, though still frustrated by awkward fouls. 

He has been moving without the ball, getting to his spots, and knockikng down clutch threes. 

HE HAS BEEN MAKING SHARP, DECISIVE PASSES, FINDING THE OPEN MAN, SUCH AS A BEAUTY HE MADE TO HIGH IQ THE OTHER NIGHT. 

There is a place for him in the rotation at the 3 & 4, and he has clearly bought into the Kook Aid Kenny Payne and Grandmaster Thibs are proferring to him. 

Baby steps, but palpable, significant improvement. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 06, 2021, 02:20:38 PM
Lost in all the "who should start?" talk is that guys across the league, NY being no exception, are having a tough time staying healthy

Burks may be back tonight - Reggie may be down.

With TEN playoff slots per conference, could be teams will be more careful getting their forces back 100% before activating.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 06, 2021, 02:22:00 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 06, 2021, 02:20:38 PM
Lost in all the "who should start?" talk is that guys across the league, NY being no exception, are having a tough time staying healthy

Burks may be back tonight - Reggie may be down.

With TEN playoff slots per conference, could be teams will be more careful getting their forces back 100% before activating.

Burks in a walking boot. 

Will be re-evaluated in 7-10.

However, we might be seeing Dennis and Omari tonight. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 06, 2021, 02:23:35 PM
There ya go

Thanks for the update

Knicks actually enjoying a  cushion right now in playoff race

heh
Title: Today keeps outdoing itself!
Post by: lesterluv on January 06, 2021, 06:22:18 PM
It begins with the Dem takeover of the Senate...
Moves on to the complete disintegration of the Republicans and the ultimate implosion of the orange assclown at the Capitol.
And will end with a Knicks-Jazz game!!!!

For a lesterdawg, it just DOES NOT GET ANY BETTER THAN THIS.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 06, 2021, 08:59:28 PM
Some of the players out are on CoVid quarantine, such as Durant schedule to kiss 7 days (4 games) if he continues tp test negative.

Only saw a few scattered minutes v UTAh.
Knick starters 0-6 on 3's.
Randle now 1-17 on treys in the last 4 games.
I heard Clyde questioning whether Julius and RJB were worn down form the heavy minutes load.
Legs (and subsequently 3's) first thing to go.

Funny, our starters played theirs even, but their bench killed us even as Knox & Rivers shot 7-10.
I saw very little, mostly just RJ "Mr. Consistent" Barrett's pair of miscues.
(1-9 FG, 2 turnovers, 3 points)

Actually no Knick has been consistent, but everyone has seemingly put together a few game hot streak.
Elf has been consistent lately, but started the season in a funk. 
Seems each game 2 or 3 Knicks play well -- often same guys for 3 games, then others take a turn at it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 06, 2021, 09:06:17 PM
Knix with a 3Q run.
Knix  getting layups, Utah launching 3's.
Knix just 2-13 on 3's (both bench makes).

Utah is 2-7 on FT's!
I forgot Utes had Favors back.  That works nicely for them.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 06, 2021, 09:18:22 PM
Thibs with some Billy Beane-ing.

"You might not look like a good team. .but you are.  Play like one tonight."
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 06, 2021, 09:20:19 PM
Rondo over Payton

Rubio over Payton

Ha hahhhh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 06, 2021, 09:35:27 PM
Some seem to be under the delusion that its a 5 game season.
Elf stunk the first 2 games.  Has played well since.
He's still a quality backup, sub-par starter.

Elf's game seems to be resembling RJB's more and more.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 06, 2021, 09:45:55 PM
That was not a backcourt violation?!
Title: My favorite Knick
Post by: Kam on January 06, 2021, 09:50:27 PM
Austin Rivers!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 06, 2021, 09:52:52 PM
So after a timeout with the game tied 96-all,
Au Revoir goes on a 14-4 run against the Jazz.
Wow!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 06, 2021, 09:53:18 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 06, 2021, 09:35:27 PM
Some seem to be under the delusion that its a 5 game season.
Elf stunk the first 2 games.  Has played well since.
He's still a quality backup, sub-par starter.

Elf's game seems to be resembling RJB's more and more.

He has improved to par Bo.

Forget the first two games.

This is a different team now.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 06, 2021, 10:01:44 PM
While Gobert is a fine player, is he anywhere near worth 4/$155M?

Mitch, a super-bargain, makes just $1.6M this year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 06, 2021, 10:10:00 PM
Mitch will get paid, hopefully by us. Games like this are great for him.

Don’t know which was more exciting today, the politics or the basketball.

Great fucking shorthanded win.

It’s nice to see a Knicks team with juice at the end of games.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 06, 2021, 11:15:01 PM
Gobert?

How about Mitchell?

I said all along he was not a super stud type in this league

Of course Knickerbockers must be given credit for their solid play vs the duo.  Assume it was RJ long with Mitch but team D rules with this team

Fac - how's Quickley v Elfrid these days?
Title: sometimes....
Post by: lesterluv on January 06, 2021, 11:30:59 PM
life's sweetness overwhelms me!


***this is all too good
Title: Pom Pommers on FIRE!
Post by: lesterluv on January 06, 2021, 11:36:36 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 01, 2021, 02:32:45 PM
With all the hooplah - and a win over Bucks, Knicks win pace if they lose in Indiana will be




24

Knicks current win pace: 45

One more win, and they'll be on pace to match kiid's IQ

*** Can't wait 4 the RIP Ashli Babbitt, lol
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 06, 2021, 11:57:14 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 06, 2021, 10:01:44 PM
While Gobert is a fine player, is he anywhere near worth 4/$155M?

Mitch, a super-bargain, makes just $1.6M this year.

Rudy Gobert signed a five-year, $205 million contract extension
Title: Re: sometimes....
Post by: Kam on January 06, 2021, 11:59:54 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on January 06, 2021, 11:30:59 PM
life's sweetness overwhelms me!


***this is all too good

elfrid payton says fuck you.
Title: Re: sometimes....
Post by: lesterluv on January 07, 2021, 12:09:09 AM
Quote from: Kam on January 06, 2021, 11:59:54 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on January 06, 2021, 11:30:59 PM
life's sweetness overwhelms me!


***this is all too good

elfrid payton says fuck you.

SEE BELOW
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 07, 2021, 12:17:57 AM
Quote from: Kam on January 06, 2021, 11:57:14 PM
Rudy Gobert signed a five-year, $205 million contract extension

Gadzooks, worse than I thought.
I remember when the deal went down (Dec 20) thinking it was a completely absurd amount.  And on top of that, Rudy was self-back-patting saying he left a little on the table to help the team.

I just quickly looked at Hoopshype and added together the extension years.  But they only have 5 years worth of salary, and Gobert is now on a 6 year deal, this year at $25M and then his monster 5 years deal averaging $40M kicks in.  So Hoopshype doesn't list his final year of $46.6M.

Who pays $40M for a C these days?
You can get a top level one for $20M.
A solid one for $12M - $15M.
And 5 years reeks of Melo panic.  And 4 years was the going rate -- all other teams could offer a FA.  I don't get it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 07, 2021, 12:22:05 AM
Quote
UTAH shooters -- Donovan Mitchell, Mike Conley, and Bojan Bogdanovic combined for  3-23 from the three-point land.

The Knicks shot just 2-10 from three in the first half and had 11 turnovers. That allowed the Jazz to shoot 53 percent from the floor and 42 percent from three by finding easy looks in transition.

In the second half, the Knicks shot 6-12 from three and had just one turnover, which kept the Jazz from getting out and running.
Title: Re: sometimes....
Post by: carlos123 on January 07, 2021, 12:31:23 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on January 07, 2021, 12:09:09 AM
Quote from: Kam on January 06, 2021, 11:59:54 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on January 06, 2021, 11:30:59 PM
life's sweetness overwhelms me!


***this is all too good

elfrid payton says fuck you.

SEE BELOW

Les, the Kamster is not a prawn! 🦐 🍤

Let’s just all agree the Trumptin is a traitor who just attempted a coup as stupid as he is.

Chamaco, whaddayasay?

PS. Just now, Republican “lawmakers” objected to PA electors. UN-FUCKING-BELIEVABLE!!!
Title: Damn Shame
Post by: chipstern on January 07, 2021, 01:00:08 AM
Roy Parry: Markelle Fultz has torn the ACL in his left knee and will be out for the season, according to a team official. Awful news for the Magic. – via Twitter osroyparry

So sorry to hear this. 

Seemed to be finding his mojo. 

Kid can't find a break. 
Title: Re: sometimes....
Post by: Kam on January 07, 2021, 01:22:25 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on January 07, 2021, 12:09:09 AM
Quote from: Kam on January 06, 2021, 11:59:54 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on January 06, 2021, 11:30:59 PM
life's sweetness overwhelms me!


***this is all too good

elfrid payton says fuck you.

SEE BELOW

SEE THIS:  Kiss my azz 

(https://images.wikia.com/templates/images/d/df/Icon_wave.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 07, 2021, 02:15:15 AM
Let’s send the Magic DSJ for one of their promising bigs. Bomba would be great. We’ll throw in a 2023 2nd rounder.
Title: AIN'T NO SHUT UP IN THEIR DRIBBLE
Post by: lesterluv on January 07, 2021, 08:50:29 AM
absolutely no stretch to say these ladies made possible Warnock's victory and Dem control of the Senate! The inspirational stuff!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/how-a-wnba-assist-helped-raphael-warnock-win-a-senate-seat/2021/01/06/59368f8c-5067-11eb-bda4-615aaefd0555_story.html (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/how-a-wnba-assist-helped-raphael-warnock-win-a-senate-seat/2021/01/06/59368f8c-5067-11eb-bda4-615aaefd0555_story.html)


**** How ya like me now, boss, my little bitch??
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 07, 2021, 09:35:11 AM
A bit of a wacky 2nd half.
At the 6:19 mark of 4Q, Knix up 3, and they simply didn't guard Bogdanovch who just walked to the corner unattended but missed a wide open 3.
One early season weakness has been transition D for the Knix.
I'm sure Thibs will work on that.

Then oddly, two plays later UTA just totally fails to place a man near Randle who catches a pass right near the hoop.

Last 7 mins, Jazz missed 6 open 3's.  Bogs had 2 wide open looks, Mitch clanked two, Conley another and finally Ingles at 1:25.  All good looks.  4 very open.
Donovan tried to rally the Utes.  Clarkson, who was their only hot hand, came out of Conley with 3:42 left.  Not sure why.  (Ingles in for Bogs at the same time made sense)

And Rivers got hot by sinking a tough 3 over Gobert, and then a floater off a very broken play as the shot clock was ending.  After that, Rivers was deadly.  But the first two that got him rolling weren't easy.

Knix D was good late 3Q -- 2 Mitch blocks -- and early 4Q (Knox block, bottling up Ingles to get a bad pass).  But last 6:20 to 1:20 of 4Q UTA had good looks and just clanked.  Bogdan really stunk. 

Couldn't believe how bad Utah was when Knix inbounded from the baseline.  Quinn gonna need to work on that.
Title: Thibs
Post by: chipstern on January 07, 2021, 10:19:17 AM
This was a game we lose 99 times out of 100 over the past twenty years. 

TT is an interesting man.

It would appear that his response to the Toronto loss really fired up the Knicks on a level of...trust. 

Remember, how in his news conference Thibs took note of the good takeaways from that game, things that we did well. and how there was much for us to build on--as we were getting open looks through the kind of sharing and ball movement he preached, and that if you had a good shot, you had to take it, and that shots we were missing WOULD GO IN if we just stayed the course. 

Thibs took a diastrous performance, shrugged it of, and turned it into a teachable moment. 

THAT'S COACHING. 

He is transforming the culture.  MY GOD. 

He has raised the bar exceptionally high, and of all the plays last night, one that was particularly gratifying for me was a tenacious block by Kevin Knox, who hit all three of his shots in giving RJ's a breather on a night when he didn't have his legs under him, and only [ONLY] played 32 minutes, and Kevin played 16.  RJ neverthless had 5 boards, 3 steals, and a bllock.  In Quickley's 6 minute cameo, he had 2 assists. 

And while Thibs' trust and transformation in all-star Julius Randle has been the most obvious, Kiid's dubious told-you-so sneering about IQ notwithstanding, Thibs' influence on Elfrid Payton has been significant.  Elfrid took his threepoint clankers when he was open, as per Thibs' no-guitl philosophy, otherwise, competely outplayed Mike Conley, and was 10-15 with all of those sweet forays into the paint, plus 8 assists and only 1 turnover in a team leading 42 minutes. 

Thus Obi and Quickley have a palpable gold standard for what is expected of them, and how high the bar is, with Julius and Elfrid.  THIS IS A GOOD THING.  Not a redundacy, and raises the bar for vets and puppies alike. 

Thibs always liked vets, and short rotations, so in an odd way, the spate of injuries that we and most of the NBA have experienced, has been oddly beneficient to Thibs.

Noels, Burks and Obi (and perhaps Frank and Omari) can see their pathway to growth AND minutes in the dedication and discipline of Austin Rivers, who famously enraged his poor wife, missing him off of a long road trip when on his Tuesday day off, much to her chagrin, he made his way to the gym for extra shooting and conditioning, being reward with minutes by Thibs, and likewise responding with one of the great performances in Knicks history [SERIOUSLY].

Hahn spoke of how he felt that Austin was misused, a bad fit in Houston, as he needs to have the ball in his hand to do his thing, and both Harden and Westbrook were so ball dominant. 

Well, Austin Rivers raised the bar for Knicks fans and himself, and has backed it up.  Tyreese Haliburton?  God bless.  Great kid, real talent.  DJ, Rondo, Teague.  Solid vets, but....man, did Rose ever pull a rabbit our of his hat with Austin--great pickup, great contract. 

Elfrid & RJ.  Austin & Quick.  Potentially Frank & Burks.  And sundry combos thererof, not excluding Reggie Bullock, who also played a solid two-way game last night.   

We have won on the road, we have defended our home turf. 

We have beaten playoff teams the likes of Milwaukee, Atlanta, Indiana and Utah.  Hell, we were in the game against Toronto, up until we could not overcome our nightmarish shooting in the second half. 

PS: Randle Haters?  How DO You LIKE Our All Star Now?  23.1/12/7.4.  Want to focus on his 4.9 turnovers?  Of course you do.  Gimme a break.  As Hahn indicated, whether he is a path to another all-star aquisition for a long term keeper, a WIN-WIN for the Knicks.  Hahn referenced how in Knicks history, Walt Bellamy was a great player, a Hall of Famer, who was not an optimum fit with Willis, and the trade for Dave DeBusshere was transformative.  Different situation now, with Mitchell who scored 9, with 13 boards, 2 assists, 3 steals, 3 blocks and only 2 fouls in 41 [FOURTY ONE] minutes.  At this point, I do believe Thibs would count himself pleased with Julius AND Mitchell, and not inclined to offer them up on the trading block.  Julius has responded to Thibs' challenge by arriving in the best shape of his life, taking the mantle of leadership Thibs conferred on him, on and off the floor, playing like an All-Star and leading like a Captain.  And last night we saw similar leadership by Elfrid and Austin.  DAMN. 

PPS: OKC, Denver, Charlotte and Brooklyn beckon over the next week.  Some serious challenges. 

PPPS: Go Knicks. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on January 07, 2021, 10:36:21 AM
Just a quick stop post-I feel good for you guys, it seems you have something real to cheer for and get excited about after years of banging your heads against the wall.

Its a good distraction in these fucking insane times.

But I don't kid myself, I expect as the Knicks emerge into the sunlight, the old scars from the past, mostly healed (fucking '73-heh) will ache once more, and the Knicks-Celts becomes a tough ticket and must-see-TV. Which is the way it should be.

Enjoy!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 07, 2021, 11:12:16 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on January 07, 2021, 10:36:21 AM
Just a quick stop post-I feel good for you guys, it seems you have something real to cheer for and get excited about after years of banging your heads against the wall.

Its a good distraction in these fucking insane times.

But I don't kid myself, I expect as the Knicks emerge into the sunlight, the old scars from the past, mostly healed (fucking '73-heh) will ache once more, and the Knicks-Celts becomes a tough ticket and must-see-TV. Which is the way it should be.

Enjoy!

Celtics on the parquet at 1PM on Sunday the 17th.  Be fun to have a meaningful mano a mano steel cage match after all these years where the Knicks are not a patsy. 

PS: Payton Pritchard working out nicely for Coach Brad. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on January 07, 2021, 11:43:28 AM
Quote from: chipstern on January 07, 2021, 11:12:16 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on January 07, 2021, 10:36:21 AM
Just a quick stop post-I feel good for you guys, it seems you have something real to cheer for and get excited about after years of banging your heads against the wall.

Its a good distraction in these fucking insane times.

But I don't kid myself, I expect as the Knicks emerge into the sunlight, the old scars from the past, mostly healed (fucking '73-heh) will ache once more, and the Knicks-Celts becomes a tough ticket and must-see-TV. Which is the way it should be.

Enjoy!

Celtics on the parquet at 1PM on Sunday the 17th.  Be fun to have a meaningful mano a mano steel cage match after all these years where the Knicks are not a patsy. 

PS: Payton Pritchard working out nicely for Coach Brad.

The guy can play-he may not be a star, but his court sense is pretty high and he seems to get the flow of the game. I've been watching his + - and in almost all of the  games (which generally have been tight games) he's delivering "+" minutes. I'm still waiting for the league to throw some wrinkles at him and see how he adjusts, but so far way more than expected.
Title: Facil Alerts
Post by: chipstern on January 07, 2021, 12:09:24 PM
Bigs On The Radar.

Interesting piece in the Post by Berman. 

Omari reported out of shape.  Noels is reportedly not happy with his situation.  Denying it, but there it is.  Fired his agent in mid-December. 

Apparently both Taj Gibson AND Tyson Chandler are on the Knicks' radar. 

Can't keep playing Julius and Mitch 40+Plus a night. 

We shall see. 

Omari, Nerlens, Brazdeikis, Dennis could all be on a bus out of town. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 07, 2021, 02:41:07 PM
Omari reported out of shape.  Noels is reportedly not happy with his situation.  Denying it, but there it is.  Fired his agent in mid-December.


"Omari is FAT"

- Kidcarter8
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 07, 2021, 02:44:19 PM
Pritchard

No "wrinkles" to really throw at a guy who stands in the corner

He is hitting close to 60% of his 2 pt attempts when he gets them.  This is excellent.  And the expected (though maybe not 87% good) excellent FT%

Even with Theiss in OFF-DEF +/- at -3, better than only G Williams among guys that get decent minutes.  110 OFF, 113 DEF, Williams 107 and 113 - Teague just a tick better at 107 and 109

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2021.html
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 07, 2021, 02:47:23 PM
New York's respective league executives of the Year

LEON ROSE and SANDY ALDERSON
Title: Come Out Come Out Wherever You Are
Post by: chipstern on January 07, 2021, 03:38:58 PM
Pharoah.  You Okay?

Your trenchant analysis is called for. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 07, 2021, 05:51:03 PM
The most interesting thing is the pairing of Randle and Mitch working well.
Mitch blocking and disrupting layups.  Randle grabbing every board.  14 rebounds per last 6 games.  I said before the season that was a key dynamic -- whether they could be an effective tandem.  Early so far, but a lot of teams aren't even taking it inside against them, opting to jack 3's.  Which turns things into make/miss jump shooting and generates few FT's and helps Mitch stay out of foul trouble.

I'm not sure why teams don't put Randle in PnR's more and make him guard PG's on the perimeter on switches.  Randle is playing 40 mins a night and is our main fulcrum on O.  Why not wear him down more?

If you want to look for a Randle flaw, it's 2-19 on 3's in 4 January games.  Just like his 9-11 streak right before that, it'll balance out.  But you really don't want Randle and Elf hoisting many 3's.  And Randle isn't going to get his legs under him playing 40 mins a night.

I don't mind Randle's turnovers, since they're in the cause of team play and ball movement. Last year, he'd blindly spin into a double or triple team on dispiriting solo forays.  Also there's a clear path to cutting Randles turnovers down, by lowering his minutes some in the short term, and getting an orchestrating PG in the long term.

This "Hater" stuff is almost always dumb.  I've said before that if you want to build around Randle, fine, then find a 3&D SF and a PG.  I doubt winning is sustainable when your starting unit can't make 3's (just low-key RegBullox).
While your PF is your main facilitator, and your PG can't hit 3's off the ball.  And if we're going with Randle, then the ObiT pick is questionable, though I guess it was hedging our bets.  If Randle, RJB & Mitch are your core, then you need shooters at PG and SF.

For me, the two biggest takeaways are Randle and Mitch so far being a solid interior pairing.  Which is necessary if we plan to keep both.
The other nice surprise is Quickly, and especially the Quickly/Rivers pairing. 
Lastly, Elf has been real good lately, though 17 / 5  / 5 on 50% shooting isn't going to last.  But it's good to see him lobbing to Mitch, scoring on determined drives and using a floater nicely as well.

So far the Knix have been competitive.  2 or 3 of the W's could have been L's.  Coming back from 15+ down isn't easy or sustainable.
But at least the outlines of a future are there.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 07, 2021, 05:53:09 PM
Kyrie out tonight vs Philly

"Personal reasons"
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 07, 2021, 05:55:45 PM
Was Joe Ingles out last night?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 07, 2021, 05:59:36 PM
Kyrie's tapeworm told him it was an inauspicious day.

Though another rumor has it that it was a sage overdose.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 07, 2021, 06:16:04 PM
Ingles played, just not all that effectively.

Omari out & Taj back it looks like, to beef up our front line.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 07, 2021, 06:28:49 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 07, 2021, 05:55:45 PM
Was Joe Ingles out last night?

Wait - wait! Dont yell at me.  I can look it up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 07, 2021, 06:29:55 PM
Picked up Chiozza for tonight - looking for 10 and 6.

Got burned last night on Quickley's ZERO.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 07, 2021, 06:55:03 PM
You got burned last night on being outed as a stateless terrorist, you cracker insurrectionist fuckwad.
Title: Bingo
Post by: chipstern on January 07, 2021, 08:11:26 PM
It's A Done Deal

Omari is, well not toast, more like a Plop Tart. 
(https://nypost.com/2021/01/07/knicks-considering-reunions-with-taj-gibson-tyson-chandler/)

Say Hello To Your New PF-C.
TAJ GIBSON
Title: Cap Hit
Post by: chipstern on January 07, 2021, 08:22:25 PM
Omari's cap hit for 2020-2021 is $1,988,280   

There was a team option for 2021-2022 of $3,588,845 and a qualifying offer of $5,383,267 for 2022-2023. 

Moot points. 

Not being in Thibodeau shape?

Strike One. 

Injuring his knee and being unavalable. 

Strike Two. 

Thibs had no confidence to put him into a game, and was thin, Thin, THIN at PF-C, with Noels and Toppin recovering. 

STRIKE THREE.

Taj connection to Thibs.  A strong connection. 

A Tyson Chandler connection to Assistant Mike Woodson. 

Ty is 38. 

Taj is 35, has the vestigial remnants of an offensive game, gives us coverage at the 4 & 5, and counts as a mentor to both Mitchell and Obi. 

Sorry, Omari, we hardly knew ye. 

Title: Austin Rivers
Post by: chipstern on January 07, 2021, 08:27:48 PM
In 4 games, a small sample, Austin Rivers is 11-20 from trey. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 07, 2021, 09:00:09 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 07, 2021, 06:55:03 PM
You got burned last night on being outed as a stateless terrorist, you cracker insurrectionist fuckwad.

One to two percent of what you post is not a ridiculous jealousy-driven rant.

But if its keeping you off the street, go with it
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 07, 2021, 09:13:47 PM
Kid, you are a toothless idiot, an unfortunate symptom of what has failed in America.

It’s nice to see you and your tribe die off.

Any more hot takes on basketball, you mangy crackhead insurrectionist?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 07, 2021, 09:31:34 PM
lol, lol, lol.... these are hard days for his tribe, it's tough lifting that wrinkled rancid orange sack off of one's chin, apparently.


**Y*DON'T GIVE UP KIID, EVEN BETSY DEVOS MANAGED TO FINALLY PULL THE STANKY STUBBY OUT OF HER MOUTH TODAY...just look in the mirror, count to 10, and say, "I've swallowed enough Demon Sperm" 3x
Title: Re: Thibs
Post by: Kam on January 07, 2021, 10:59:36 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 07, 2021, 10:19:17 AM

TT is an interesting man.


He is transforming the culture.  MY GOD. 

PPPS: Go Knicks.

(https://preview.redd.it/6is6379duw961.png?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=18843c71a6ebe206bd74d201d19806b0b2dc7eee)
Title: Executive of the Year
Post by: carlos123 on January 07, 2021, 11:36:27 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 07, 2021, 02:47:23 PM
New York's respective league executives of the Year

LEON ROSE and SANDY ALDERSON

Those two are ok, but the actual and real executive of the year ...

... STEVE COHEN

Man oh man, those Mets are gonna rock and roll over the National League!
Title: Nyets
Post by: carlos123 on January 07, 2021, 11:38:45 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 07, 2021, 05:59:36 PM
Kyrie's tapeworm told him it was an inauspicious day.

Though another rumor has it that it was a sage overdose.

It looks as if they play better without KD or KI or both. Go figure!
Title: Wow
Post by: Kam on January 08, 2021, 12:38:28 AM
Wild ending to regulation of the Dallas- Denver game.

107-106 Dallas down 1, time running out Luka finds Maxi Kleiber who nails a three with under 2 seconds to go.
107-109 Denver inbounds the ball to Jokic who hits a long fadeaway at the buzzer.

overtime
Title: Because of the riot at the Capitol
Post by: Kam on January 08, 2021, 03:48:54 AM
“I just didn’t want to play.”

- Kyrie Irving on why he didn’t play tonight
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 08, 2021, 04:09:13 AM
Kyrie showing his leadership chops.

I thought he also wasn't traveling to MemF.
I'd dock him for not reporting to work.
Probably nearly $500K per game.

I'm sure KI's teammates appreciate his sensitivity.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 08, 2021, 09:53:05 AM
Actually, I'm sure they do.

***folks got a lot on their minds this day or two or three, a whole lot besides your two hours of fun

*Pops ripped it in his pregame yesterday https://twitter.com/MarkG_Medina/status/1347365052827848707  (https://twitter.com/MarkG_Medina/status/1347365052827848707)

*and there's this...https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/01/07/not-prosecuting-jacob-blakes-shooter-sends-message-black-lives-dont-matter/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/01/07/not-prosecuting-jacob-blakes-shooter-sends-message-black-lives-dont-matter/) yeah, hard to keep track, but that's the one that almost did in last season for good
Title: Which Lives Matter?
Post by: chipstern on January 08, 2021, 03:58:08 PM
R.I.P. OFFICER BRIAN SICKNICK!!! Relentless ball-licking by rancid racist crackers like kiidcarter produced the massive ego explosion that culminated in this police officer’s death - they are as fully responsible as the rabid peckerwood who actually smashed the fire extinguisher into his skull

Apparently, DAWG, the only life which matters is that of the Chettoh Flavored Shitgibbon, the Craven EVERMORE, the Law And Order President, Insurrectionist Coward In Chief. 

May he fry in Crisco for Eternity
Title: Re: Which Lives Matter?
Post by: carlos123 on January 08, 2021, 06:09:53 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 08, 2021, 03:58:08 PM
R.I.P. OFFICER BRIAN SICKNICK!!! Relentless ball-licking by rancid racist crackers like kiidcarter produced the massive ego explosion that culminated in this police officer’s death - they are as fully responsible as the rabid peckerwood who actually smashed the fire extinguisher into his skull

Apparently, DAWG, the only life which matters is that of the Chettoh Flavored Shitgibbon, the Craven EVERMORE, the Law And Order President, Insurrectionist Coward In Chief. 

May he fry in Crisco for Eternity

Maybe Chamaco is repentant and regretting his past trumpism. After all, he was always a fervent admirer of Betsy Devos, so he may have left his trumpian leanings behind, after her.

Whaddaya say, Chamaco? Speak for yourself!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 08, 2021, 07:04:56 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 08, 2021, 06:09:53 PM

Maybe Chamaco is repentant and regretting his past trumpism.


No he isn't and doesn't. 

Quote from: carlos123 on January 08, 2021, 06:09:53 PM

Whaddaya say, Chamaco? Speak for yourself!

He speaks enough in the Trump forum.  Let's keep this forum free from his political views.
Title: Death Sentence For The Donald
Post by: chipstern on January 08, 2021, 07:16:31 PM
TRUMP PERMANENTLY BANNED

From

(https://i1.wp.com/www.toonsmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/GILLOTINE-Category-A.jpg?fit=758%2C1072&ssl=1)

TWITTER
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 08, 2021, 07:40:32 PM
Too little too late Chip
Title: OK
Post by: carlos123 on January 08, 2021, 08:05:57 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 08, 2021, 07:04:56 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 08, 2021, 06:09:53 PM

Maybe Chamaco is repentant and regretting his past trumpism.


No he isn't and doesn't. 

Quote from: carlos123 on January 08, 2021, 06:09:53 PM

Whaddaya say, Chamaco? Speak for yourself!

He speaks enough in the Trump forum.  Let's keep this forum free from his political views.

So this is for Chamaco, showing his hero on the way out:

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3cqsxd0avevIJ-qTVv_1L9bl17D93CYHN6ztu6h-bSPO64zBNFA3o5ojpiI4Z5AsHKSPmvgML7h0YND2nMEAcis8VQuUVFr4G7y-AzgseCj2UDJnXJX_GxwzpSc5YI3e1ADGZ79ueGOUtlxpNF_ptL6=w600-h268-no?authuser=0)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 08, 2021, 08:49:10 PM
How is Bazely playing?  He is one of the Thunder I had noticed had improved

Still 20, I think
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 08, 2021, 09:19:37 PM
AR time

Down 9, hits three to end the third - and a deuce to start the 4th
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 08, 2021, 09:20:05 PM
IQ is a mess.
Title: WTF
Post by: carlos123 on January 08, 2021, 09:26:58 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 08, 2021, 09:20:05 PM
IQ is a mess.

"FIRE CHRIS WEBBER!", Chamaco Cartero.

What did Chris Webber do to you?

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 08, 2021, 09:53:51 PM
I think we are winless in these new city uniforms
Title: Re: WTF
Post by: Kam on January 08, 2021, 09:55:23 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 08, 2021, 09:26:58 PM

What did Chris Webber do to you?

Don't ask.  Just more hypocrisy from kid.
Title: Re: WTF Chamaco
Post by: carlos123 on January 08, 2021, 10:03:44 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 08, 2021, 09:55:23 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 08, 2021, 09:26:58 PM

What did Chris Webber do to you?

Don't ask.  Just more hypocrisy from kid.

Well, his statement just seems silly. Maybe Chamaco Cartero is just a silly old boy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 08, 2021, 10:08:36 PM
Kkkcuckkarter is a very silly old boy. On top of that, he still finds time to be a nasty piece of work and filthy. Kid brings the full loser package and is obscene in every occasion. He’s a blot that cannot be eclipsed, a true eyesore.

Never did find our groove in this one. We can call it a good learning experience, a reversion to mean, or a bump in the road. Just got to preform better against the Nugs.

The Thunder are kind of fun. I want the Knicks to kick their asses next time the teams meet up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 08, 2021, 10:41:36 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 08, 2021, 10:08:36 PM
Kkkcuckkarter is a very silly old boy. On top of that, he still finds time to be a nasty piece of work and filthy. Kid brings the full loser package and is obscene in every occasion. He’s a blot that cannot be eclipsed, a true eyesore.

Never did find our groove in this one. We can call it a good learning experience, a reversion to mean, or a bump in the road. Just got to preform better against the Nugs.

The Thunder are kind of fun. I want the Knicks to kick their asses next time the teams meet up.

That 19 year old 7 footer looks like he has a nice upside.  Thunder's coach had them playing well, good D. 

Be interesting to see how Thibs has us coming back from this. 

PS: RJ surely is feast or famine. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 08, 2021, 11:13:06 PM
Ainge castaway Hayward

Last 5

43-85
13-29
23-25
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 08, 2021, 11:19:40 PM
I didn’t mind RJ so much. Elf & Quickley were lost. Randle getting picked by Diallo while jogging up the court should be a heavily emphasized teaching moment.

It’s early sledding yet. I’m starting to think our bounce back won’t be immediate and the problems will persist against Denver.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 08, 2021, 11:21:53 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 08, 2021, 11:13:06 PM
Ainge castaway Hayward

Last 5

43-85
13-29
23-25

Are you still committing treason by supporting trump?

Now he has declared war on the United States, it really is treason to stand with the coup.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 08, 2021, 11:32:14 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 08, 2021, 11:21:53 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 08, 2021, 11:13:06 PM
Ainge castaway Hayward

Last 5

43-85
13-29
23-25

Are you still committing treason by supporting trump?

Now he has declared war on the United States, it really is treason to stand with the coup.

WTF are those numbers?  Is he too suffering a breakdown?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 08, 2021, 11:40:53 PM
Are you still committing treason by supporting trump?


He's not running for anything yet.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 08, 2021, 11:48:48 PM
Supporting him sticking around for the next two weeks is enough for your ticket to ride the lightning.

The trump future is a yawning grave swallowing up right wingers too slow to escape its event horizon.

Do you support the bastard cop killer now?
Title: Marc Berman
Post by: chipstern on January 09, 2021, 12:50:47 AM
Is the most scummy front runner. 

The Knicks had a bad game and he is ringing the panic bell and throwing them under the bus.

Let me see. 

Julius and RJ have been playing 40 + a night. 

No Burks, Toppin, Ntilikina. 

Their offensive cohesion and ball movemewnt was not their tonight, let alone their shooting.  Give Thunder's defensive effort some credit.  Open looks were at a premium. 

Did Berman think we were going to to 72-0.  Oh, okay, 69-3. 

We've enjoyed a really nice uptick against some top tier opponents. 

Were we sleeping against the Thunder?  Or just got nicked by hungry young team. 

God I loath Berman.  Such a septic sack of schmaltz. 

Nuggets await.  Let's see what Thibs has in his quiver. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 09, 2021, 01:46:27 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 08, 2021, 11:40:53 PM
Are you still committing treason by supporting trump?

He's not running for anything yet.

Even though it's early, I voted for Trump as Asshole of the Century.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 09, 2021, 02:40:47 AM
Quickly played so cool in some of the previous games. He lost his poise here and looked like a rookie tonight. Totally understandable, but a tad disappointing.

Love to see Barrett driving, but that long two of his can be deadly. Especially when he passes up the (unlikely) 3 to move a step or two closer for the (unlikely) 2.

First time this year when I was puzzled by a coaching move. Did Robinson do something in the second half to warrant staying on the bench? There seemed to be a long, LONG stretch when we couldn't get a stop against the Thunder — I couldn't figure why he wasn't in there. His second half D has been AWESOME in previous games.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 09, 2021, 07:36:03 AM
If you want to see why Bo and others are high on TyH, watch SacKings 43 point 1Q (https://nbafullhd.com/10498-2/).
Hal enters just above the 7 minute mark, blocks FVV by following the play.Pops a corner 3.
Keeps the ball moving and racks up 4 assists (a lob for a dunk off a strong drive; a pass to Bags down low after a nice ball fake pretending to shoot; hitting an open Hield for a 3).  Makes good defensive reads ans sticks with plays.

Had a mismatch of sorts with lengthy Boucher on him, fakes him out and cans a step back 3.  Finished the game 5-7 on 3's reminding me of Franc.  Actually the play before the stepbacker, TyH bombed another 3, but later they reviewed it and ruled he had stepped out before the shot.

Just smart high energy stuff.
There was a 3 on 1 coming at Ty and first a rambling Big kind of shields him off in what was nearly a moving screen, and still Hal made a nice block swipe at the layup without fouling.

FVV led TOR with 34 with Lowry out.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 09, 2021, 07:54:36 AM
Otherwise, a lot of players are either testing positive or being held out because they were in contact with someone who did. 

BOS - Fontcourt Trio out.  Robt Williams + ... Grant and Tristan in quarantine.

PHI with 7 players out, after Scurry 2.0 was infected, so they might not have a quorum

DAL down 3 G's (one of Josh Rich, Dorian Funky-Smith, Brunson Burner was positive, the other two quarantined due to proximity/contact)

Of course our resident Trump apologist thought this wouldn't be a concern.

The NBA is either going to have to tighten movement restrictions or risk the season collapsing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 09, 2021, 10:14:53 AM
Watched the 2nd half.
Kind of a blah Knick game with nobody getting hot.

OKC has a lot of young active guys which gave the Knix fits.  Instead of launching outside shots, OKC drove inside and got a lot of easy layups.  In contrast to MIL and IND (and was it ATL?) who kept launching 3's while their leads slipped away.
Diallo, Dort, Shai made it look easy.

Seemed a strange finishing unit from Thibs.  Randle came in at the 10' mark for Nawlins.  So a tired Randle played C for a long stretch while in foul trouble.  Even in the 3Q Randle with 4 fouls was letting guys drive to the rim without contesting.  No idea why Thibs never brought Mitch back.

OKC bench (and Shai) won the game.  Especially Diallo, but Roby had a nice cameo, the Skinny Serb did well, Maledon was active filling up 22 minutes.  Pokuševski just turned 19 the day after Xmas and at 7' and under 200 Pounds I didn't expect him to play NBA ball this year.  Only had 2 FG's and 5 points before this 3-5 for 7 Pt performance.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 09, 2021, 10:48:32 AM
Yeah, the next month or two will definitely be especially tough for the league (and everyone else), covid-wise, and the assclowns at the capitol won't help, looks to have been another sturgis-type superspreading situation:

On Friday, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Director Dr. Robert Redfield warned the riots would likely be a "surge event" that will have "public health consequences."
"You had largely unmasked individuals in a non-distanced fashion, who were all through the Capitol," he told the McClatchy newspaper group. "Then these individuals all are going in cars and trains and planes going home all across the country right now."
"So I do think this is an event that will probably lead to a significant spreading," he added.

That said, the league is as good as it gets at management. I suspect they'll tighten up the protocols and try to get through it with as little disruption as possible. Players understand, and have a lot at stake, a good chunk of their salaries are in escrow and dependent on league revenues, and NOBODY has any desire to return to a bubble.
Title: Re: Marc Berman
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 09, 2021, 11:13:04 AM
Quote from: chipstern on January 09, 2021, 12:50:47 AM
Is the most scummy front runner. 

The Knicks had a bad game and he is ringing the panic bell and throwing them under the bus.

Let me see. 

Julius and RJ have been playing 40 + a night. 

No Burks, Toppin, Ntilikina. 

Their offensive cohesion and ball movemewnt was not their tonight, let alone their shooting.  Give Thunder's defensive effort some credit.  Open looks were at a premium. 

Did Berman think we were going to to 72-0.  Oh, okay, 69-3. 

We've enjoyed a really nice uptick against some top tier opponents. 

Were we sleeping against the Thunder?  Or just got nicked by hungry young team. 

God I loath Berman.  Such a septic sack of schmaltz. 

Nuggets await.  Let's see what Thibs has in his quiver.

Glad you got that off your chest

Bettr if we could see what Berman wrote and we can then comment
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on January 09, 2021, 12:08:46 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 08, 2021, 11:13:06 PM
Ainge castaway Hayward

Last 5

43-85
13-29
23-25

castaway?

Nope Danny offered Gordon 4-100 but Gordon got a more lucrative deal in Charlotte where he could be the star.

IMO it was more an ego thing for Gordo.

The handwriting was on the parquet in Boston, it was going to be the Js leading the Celts, not Gordo and Kyrie as he originally thought.

Gordo did not want to be 6th man in Boston

he wanted to be the man in Charlotte

except as he will find out come tourney time, the Hornets may be about the 6th or 7th most followed team in NC behind

Duke
UNC
NC State
UNC Charlotte
Wake
Davidson

Hornets

Gordon always liked playing in a college town, but had it better in Indy.


and can you expand and explain last 5
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 09, 2021, 12:18:06 PM
Knicks with TEN players above 10+ PER (actually 11.3 or above)

This matches Celtics.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 09, 2021, 01:23:06 PM
Berman might be a sour feller, but his column did mention Ohringer's vid scouting of the Knix.  Though like Chip, Brrman didn't link us up.

Here's a 10 min vid scouting of the Knix D:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52ft4QVqEo4

Pretty much Thibs mainstay -- strong side D and guarding the paint (by not having the Big drop back in PnR but having everyone collapse in), and then fly out on 3-point shooters.

He makes the point that Randle and others play off their man starting at the edge of the paint, so they won't have to stunt in and then back out. 
This style does leave players open for 3's on the weak side.
Relying on RJB, Bullox to close out quickly.
Still looks to me like IND, UTA, MIL just missed a lot of good looks.
And a few times they should have made an extra pass to the corner.

His Pt 2 follow-up vid on Knix O seemed largely useless to me.
Mostly documenting that Randle and Rivers and Burks and to a lesser degree Elf have been insanely hot.  And that Randle has been playmaking.
He didn't mention that Randle consistently drawing double teams has opened up the court, and his willingness to pass out has led to open 3's.

About the only thing interesting was his observation that the Knix G's tend to keep the ball and not pass much (think Elf and RJB drives) which cuts down on turnovers and makes it easy to get back on D.

Ohringer was a vid coordinator and advance scout in the NBA for 7 years.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 09, 2021, 01:39:55 PM
Trier going to play in the G-League:
https://www.inquisitr.com/6442110/allonzo-trier-g-league-draft/

The G will have a draft soon then start in FEB in a bubble enviro in Florida.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 09, 2021, 04:36:44 PM
Tatum out

https://nba.nbcsports.com/2021/01/09/boston-all-star-tatum-out-10-14-days-due-to-covid-19-protocols/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 09, 2021, 05:13:44 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 09, 2021, 01:46:27 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 08, 2021, 11:40:53 PM
Are you still committing treason by supporting trump?

He's not running for anything yet.

Even though it's early, I voted for Trump as Asshole of the Century.

The Millenium
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 09, 2021, 05:24:30 PM
Kid is still climbing deeper into that asshole, enjoying the pillowy embrace of those nether regions.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 09, 2021, 05:56:52 PM
THIRTY NINE for Tyrese Maxey today, as we crow about IQ.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on January 09, 2021, 06:02:07 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 09, 2021, 04:36:44 PM
Tatum out

https://nba.nbcsports.com/2021/01/09/boston-all-star-tatum-out-10-14-days-due-to-covid-19-protocols/

He joins TimeLord, GW, and TT on covid list (and kemba is still rehabbing),

the kids, if they are healthy, will get some serious minutes for the next 8 games.

could be a little ragged for awhile

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 09, 2021, 06:11:46 PM
Gotta pick up Semi
Title: Fuck You Kiid
Post by: chipstern on January 09, 2021, 06:15:37 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 09, 2021, 05:56:52 PM
THIRTY NINE for Tyrese Maxey today, as we crow about IQ.

Go fuck yourself you front running nimrod. 

He was picked AHEAD OF US.

Kenny Payne was speakikng highly of him pre draft.  I was on the phone with EMann watching him drop, as we held hands.  When we looked at who was ahead of us, it was like, oh, boy, NO WAY HE FALLS PAST PHILLY. 

You were not on board.  But now, oh, you are SO SMART. 

Alas, no IGNORE function anymore to Block QAnon smugness, so we have to do it in real time. 

Meanwhile, rinse out my mouth after you've triggeder my gag reflex. 

FUCK YOU. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 09, 2021, 06:18:09 PM
You were not.  But now, oh, you are SO SMART.


I was not what?

All over Quickley in a  trade up?

You're right.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 09, 2021, 07:20:53 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 09, 2021, 06:18:09 PM
You were not.  But now, oh, you are SO SMART.


I was not what?

All over Quickley in a  trade up?

You're right.

Fuck You Thrice

Literal Lice

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 09, 2021, 07:43:26 PM
You asshats cant even be happy when you win.
Title: 2021 = tooooooooooooooooooooooo good
Post by: lesterluv on January 09, 2021, 08:14:29 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 09, 2021, 07:43:26 PM
You asshats cant even be happy when you win.

lol, this asshat gets happier with every daily hourly morsel of joy.

Final act coming up and it promises to be very special:
The Four Seasons landscaping star may well be representing at IMPEACHMENT TWO, NEW SHADES OF POO.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/09/politics/donald-trump-impeachment-lawyers-dershowitz-giuliani/index.html (https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/09/politics/donald-trump-impeachment-lawyers-dershowitz-giuliani/index.html)

If he isn't facing charges himself by then, that is.
Bring your gas masks, reps, just in case!

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 09, 2021, 08:15:56 PM
Nope Danny offered Gordon 4-100 but Gordon got a more lucrative deal in Charlotte where he could be the star.


Just one source says this

Celtics extended the window for Hayward to accept the 34 mil for one.  That is all that is known for sure.

Also reported but not confirmed is Boston offered all three number ones and Hayward for Jrue Holiday
Title: one more for Rudy's "can't-make-this-ish-up" file
Post by: lesterluv on January 09, 2021, 08:17:24 PM
https://oanow.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/giuliani-called-tuberville-to-slow-down-electoral-votes-but-called-the-wrong-senators-phone/article_881641a2-510d-11eb-9e3f-cb04a79527d9.html (https://oanow.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/giuliani-called-tuberville-to-slow-down-electoral-votes-but-called-the-wrong-senators-phone/article_881641a2-510d-11eb-9e3f-cb04a79527d9.html)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 09, 2021, 08:18:21 PM
I see Flynn for the better of Haliburton in the end last night

Both played effectively, Malachi winning out

Leaving Ty H open not a great idea
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 09, 2021, 08:42:45 PM
It’s funny watching a stateless refugee psycho fascist buttboy like kidcarter8 try to distract himself from his impending beatdown and bleedout with dipshit musings about basketball.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 09, 2021, 09:05:11 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 09, 2021, 05:13:44 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 09, 2021, 01:46:27 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 08, 2021, 11:40:53 PM
Are you still committing treason by supporting trump?

He's not running for anything yet.

Even though it's early, I voted for Trump as Asshole of the Century.

The Millenium

Sorry, I can't bring myself to EVER vote Trump.
Title: Re: Fuck You Kiid
Post by: Kam on January 09, 2021, 09:06:41 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 09, 2021, 06:15:37 PM


Alas, no IGNORE function anymore to Block QAnon smugness, so we have to do it in real time. 


Chip - There is still an ignore function.   Click PROFILE up top.  Modify Profile -> Buddies/Ignore list
Title: Re: Fuck You Kiid
Post by: chipstern on January 09, 2021, 09:20:19 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 09, 2021, 09:06:41 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 09, 2021, 06:15:37 PM


Alas, no IGNORE function anymore to Block QAnon smugness, so we have to do it in real time. 


Chip - There is still an ignore function.   Click PROFILE up top.  Modify Profile -> Buddies/Ignore list

Thanks
Title: Happiness
Post by: carlos123 on January 09, 2021, 09:26:36 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 09, 2021, 07:43:26 PM
You asshats cant even be happy when you win.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3c10J6znABKwhv3ZpForxRS0ujU8C6buQWTnW13QwzobD0HnvTw-4QJj2Vmb-awatrIKoPEYojJeHpQgjdY9XRPsQIHril9rd_aZaim5ozRtOkyTDXGnss_0BVhL5tegnCWhB9jG0tLipj5BYnecM2a=w600-h268-no?authuser=0)

Chamaco, I hope this will make you happy.

Chip, please do not use the ignore function. Your beatdowns are a lotta fun, I don't wanna miss them.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 09, 2021, 09:55:47 PM
AVDIJA finally gets some run, hits 5 threes, goes for 20-5-5
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 09, 2021, 10:08:07 PM
Avdija has been pretty quiet in a near invisible starting role.  Rustbrook & Beal dominate the O.  So I haven't been able to see his NBAbility.

Edit: So Beal was out because he was near Tatum; Westbrook also out w/ sore leg.
So Avdija got to actually touch the ball and play.

Malachi Flynn has had a rough start to his career, so good to see he got going in one game.  I had meant to get back to that game and see more, but didn't (only caught 1Q action).  Moloch got a few late 1Q mins but played timid Franc PG, just super-safe passes to the next man.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 09, 2021, 10:48:25 PM
Haliburton started at the 3 tonight

6 assists first quarter

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 09, 2021, 10:56:37 PM
So what's your point?

TyH a nice 2-way player forcing himself into the starting lineup by his smart team play on both ends.  Smart drafting by SAC since they really needed a secondary ballhandler/passer in the halfcourt. 


I see Mo Wagner has been freed up in WAS due to lots of guys out.
Thos Bryant suffered a knee injury 2 minutes in -- might be serious.
Mo is a Big guy with skills.  Making just $2M.  Will be a FA.  I'd keep an eye on him.
Title: Re: Happiness
Post by: chipstern on January 09, 2021, 10:57:04 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 09, 2021, 09:26:36 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 09, 2021, 07:43:26 PM
You asshats cant even be happy when you win.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3c10J6znABKwhv3ZpForxRS0ujU8C6buQWTnW13QwzobD0HnvTw-4QJj2Vmb-awatrIKoPEYojJeHpQgjdY9XRPsQIHril9rd_aZaim5ozRtOkyTDXGnss_0BVhL5tegnCWhB9jG0tLipj5BYnecM2a=w600-h268-no?authuser=0)

Chamaco, I hope this will make you happy.

Chip, please do not use the ignore function. Your beatdowns are a lotta fun, I don't wanna miss them.

Dos Equos, much as I wish to please you, I only have so many days left on Earth, and I think it prudent for my spiritual well being, not to spend them with....HIM. 

Now sure why the smugness of the front running on Maxey and dismissive pisstake on YOU GUYS regarding enthusiasm for Quickly so set me off, as opposed to some Trumpian fecal droppings, but I felt unclean interacting with him. 

I leave him to Jesus, or in lieu of that, Facil, Dawg and Hubie Brown. 

Fuck Him. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 09, 2021, 11:00:42 PM
Viva Vlade!!!

Kings about to be 4-6 - and they have had good health
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 09, 2021, 11:06:38 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 09, 2021, 10:08:07 PM
Avdija has been pretty quiet in a near invisible starting role.  Rustbrook & Beal dominate the O.  So I haven't been ability to see his NBAbility.

Edit: So Beal was out because he was near Tatum; Westbrook also out w/ sore leg.
So Avdija got to actually touch the ball and play.

Malachi Flynn has had a rough start to his career, so good to see he got going in one game.  I had meant to get back to that game and see more, but didn't (only caught 1Q action).  Moloch got a few late 1Q mins but played timid Franc PG, just super-safe passes to the next man.

Avdija has had some solid moments and is going to be a good player. 

He is a TEAM PLAYER, but I think he is used to being a little more....the focus of things.  He has the skills to be a more than solid third or fouth option.  But it's an adjustment.  His three point shooting has been very good on some nights more than others.  The potential is there.  His threes were falling today. 

Haliburton has been more impactful, injuries notwithstanding, than Avdija, Vassell, Obi, Lewis, Anthony, Okuro, Williams, the Euro-PG from Detroit who just got hurt [having an Alzheimers moment].

More impactful than anyone other than Ball, who has been up and down, but when he has been up, he has been...Up.   

I'm not lobbying for a Mulligan and Toppin, who impresses me even at the nascent juncture, but Haliburton was the man I was pulling for the Knicks to pick....defense, facilitator, shooting.  Kam, too, as I recall. And Quickley is going to be a player.  So WTF. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 09, 2021, 11:21:28 PM
Avdija was exceptional up until last three games (1-8 combined shooting) - then righted himself today

But you are right - here is a scorer who is getting limited shots (and to his credit not forcing)

Baby steps - sure

But WAS has tos ee the need to get him much more involved
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 09, 2021, 11:24:46 PM
I would have taken TyHal or Avdija even if we didn't already have Uncle Julius at PF.

ObiT & Avdija were expected to compete with Edwards for Rook of the Year honors as they were the most experienced draftees.

So Knix executed the opt out of Taj's contract and then resign him much cheaper.  $2,283,684 Salary (+ Taj got $1M guaranteed on his previous deal). 
By being patient Knix even save about $2M over what they might have offered Taj in the offseason.  I'm surprised the vet min isn't higher for someone of Taj's years (though that $2.3M is pro-rated for the 10 game already played).
What'd Phil have, an $11M option on Taj?  Geez.
 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 09, 2021, 11:25:53 PM
Wiseman 11 and 6 with 1.7 blocks in 20 minutes per
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 09, 2021, 11:36:12 PM
Absolutely impressed with Edwards as well.  And P Williams has been fine

The 7 and 10 picks can be scoffed at right now - I wouldnt have a prob with this - only with respect to PHX because Haliburton behind Paul would have seemed so natural (Jalen Smith, who I like - has been injured - so gets an INC but Hayes seems to be a DET error)

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 09, 2021, 11:43:26 PM
Hayes was a risky pick with potential high upside.
I didn't like the Jalen Smith pick.

I think Prince Hal fits on any team.  A player.
Spurs likely will regret skipping on TyH for Vassal (a nice shooter)

Title: Dos Equos
Post by: carlos123 on January 09, 2021, 11:46:09 PM
Hey Chip, what’s Dos Equos?

Chamaco, did my pic of your hero make you happy?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 09, 2021, 11:49:30 PM
Spurs likely will regret skipping on TyH for Vassal (a nice shooter)


3 and D, you had said - as did others

Spurs playing good ball.  You dont just run a guy like Rudy Gay out of his minutes
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 09, 2021, 11:54:02 PM
White, Murray, Jones at point for Spurs

I guess if DeRozen is dealt a guard slot opens
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 10, 2021, 12:00:33 AM
I like Vassal (but have only seen about 5 mins of his career in one game)
I just don't think he has the all-around game and innate smarts TyH does.
Not a knock on Devin Vasculature, more praise for THai.
I was surprised at the time that SAS went Vassell over TyH.
Great luck for Sacto.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 10, 2021, 12:07:22 AM
I was surprised at the time that SAS went Vassell over TyH.


No separation as yet

And I told you the SA guard situation
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 10, 2021, 12:09:53 AM
I think I was the first guy here who wanted Haliburton so I'm happy he is playing well but we don't need game by game updates.  Let it go.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 10, 2021, 12:10:06 AM
Tyrese Haliburton is one of the most exciting passers in this class, and has a very unique set of skills that should make him a useful rotation player for years to come.



Agree

https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2020/9/2/21417743/suns-2020-draft-spotlight-tyrese-haliburton-nba-draft
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 10, 2021, 12:18:12 AM
Just another Franc ...

10 games in, TyH might be the best 2-way player on the Kings.

PHI started 3 rooks due to CV.
One guy undrafted, another was a #49 pick.

NBA might find itself playing the 2nd half of the season in a Bubble, if it wants to complete things.  A 2 week quarantine for all might be required, followed by Bubble play.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 10, 2021, 12:32:48 AM
First three turnover game today for Ty H - and another -15

Sorry, Kam.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 10, 2021, 03:02:53 AM
Keep flopping around in the wind, little sock puppet.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 10, 2021, 05:23:16 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 10, 2021, 12:18:12 AM

NBA might find itself playing the 2nd half of the season in a Bubble, if it wants to complete things.  A 2 week quarantine for all might be required, followed by Bubble play.

G-League is already doing it.   

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2021/01/nba-g-league-officially-announces-plans-for-disney-bubble.html (https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2021/01/nba-g-league-officially-announces-plans-for-disney-bubble.html)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 10, 2021, 09:29:08 AM
Tim Jr. off to a hot start.
Trey Burke and Tim combined for 65 Points on 15-21 from distance!

I was watching a DAL game a few days ago and Funky-Smith and Josh Rich were clanging 4Q 3's.  And I kept wondering where Tim was.  Finally they brought him in with maybe 2  or 3 mins left and he canned a pair of late 3's. 
I still like Josh Rich but I projected him to be more of an impact 2-way player (Eddie Jones!) rather than just a solid cog.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 10, 2021, 02:54:12 PM
Eddie Jones was awesome.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 10, 2021, 04:00:15 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 10, 2021, 02:54:12 PM
Eddie Jones was awesome.

Support statehood for PR & DC.
Title: Damn Shame
Post by: chipstern on January 10, 2021, 04:03:12 PM
Adrian Wojnarowski: Washington Wizards C Thomas Bryant has suffered a torn ACL to his left knee, source tells ESPN.

Sarah K. Spencer: “We’re probably looking at another guy that’s probably going to be out for a while,” Lloyd Pierce says. Hawks have listed Bogdanovic as out with a “right knee injury” for now, but we’ll likely find out more tomorrow.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 10, 2021, 04:06:15 PM
Durant back, Kyrie out

Jalen out, along with 8 other Celtics

Pistons are an offensive mess.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 10, 2021, 04:15:59 PM
Bryant was on most improved list, for sure

Maybe we get to see some Moritz Wagner

I bet Deni would love to play center, for the starter minutes
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on January 10, 2021, 05:24:59 PM
Celts-Heat postponed.

Heat didn't have enough players. Celts the minimum
Title: Nerlens
Post by: Kam on January 10, 2021, 08:00:39 PM
Noel looks checked out.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 10, 2021, 08:30:58 PM
A well-guarded in the paint Randle not kicking out for an open three

Discuss
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 10, 2021, 08:41:08 PM
We are showing sings of being able to play well, even being able to play over our head. That doesn’t make us a good team. That’s not what we’re going to be this year. We’re going to take a lot of losses, some of them more or less like this.

I count 3 bad losses over 10 games over which we are 5-5. Second of a back to back tomorrow.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 10, 2021, 08:44:46 PM
We won’t be seeing Burks, Toppin, or Gibson for a while yet.
Title: Re: Nerlens & Knox
Post by: carlos123 on January 10, 2021, 09:07:08 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 10, 2021, 08:00:39 PM
Noel looks checked out.

True. Not the case with KK, but I'm almost ready to give up on him. It just doesn't look like he can play.

PS. Most likely, Chip is gonna kill me for my transgression of the positive pussy manual of conduct.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 10, 2021, 11:47:51 PM
Draft for positional size, agility, handle, and passing. Everything else is easier to build up through a decent NBA development program.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 10, 2021, 11:55:10 PM
http://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/01/10/trump-election-overturn-investigated-911-457269 (http://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/01/10/trump-election-overturn-investigated-911-457269)
Title: Paging DeAHunter
Post by: bodiddley on January 11, 2021, 12:13:24 AM
RJB so far at 38% FG and just 21% on 3's.
Taking nearly 5 treys per.
I understand you need to take open shots, but RJB and Elf should be shooting very few 3's.  As Clyde likes to say, sometimes you're open for a reason.  RJB shooting 3's is a win for the other team.
Title: U forgetting something?
Post by: carlos123 on January 11, 2021, 12:15:40 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 10, 2021, 11:47:51 PM
Draft for positional size, agility, handle, and passing. Everything else is easier to build up through a decent NBA development program.

How about shooting? I mean, we could do with a Reggie Miller or two, don’t u think?
Title: Re: Paging DeAHunter
Post by: chipstern on January 11, 2021, 12:16:30 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 11, 2021, 12:13:24 AM
RJB so far at 38% FG and just 21% on 3's.
Taking nearly 5 treys per.
I understand you need to take open shots, but RJB and Elf should be shooting very few 3's.  As Clyde likes to say, sometimes you're open for a reason.  RJB shooting 3's is a win for the other team.

Sigh.

Not having Burks has had a cumulative effect.  When you have comeone who is a drop dead shooter, like Burks, it's funny how much bigger the basket gets for the second and third tier shooters.  Randle can't be the only one who is a threat to score. 

Work In Progress. 

Charlotte on a nice run.  Tomorrow could be rough. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 11, 2021, 03:03:19 AM
Burks wasn't even starting and is a career 37% 3-Pt shooting journeyman on his 6th team in 3 years.  If he is our savior, we are beyond doomed.
Yes, he had an excellent 3-game streak of offensive brilliance to start the season -- though we still lost 2 of those.
Yes, he often misses plenty of games.

When Franc or Elf or RJB starts to launch a 3, a little uh-oh goes off in my head.
 
Reg Bollocks is a career 38% from 3.  And a significantly better defender than Burks.  Though Reg has shot worse the last 2 injury-plagued years.  And he has a rather limited handle.

I still prefer Reg (solid 3 & D) and Rivers (3 and ballhandling/passing) over Burks.
But that can change if Burks plays high level consistent team ball.

Assuming Thibs wants Bullox for his steadiness and D; and Rivers for his combo guard ability and pairing with IQ, I'm not sure what that leaves for Burks.  Especially if Franc is in the mix.  We'll see.  Reg and Au Revior aren't the most durable (neither is Burks).  Certainly have to get Burks some mins to see if he can distill some of that December all-star play.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 11, 2021, 08:21:58 AM
eyetest for two journeymen in small sample size
Burks better than Bullock, team plays better with Burks than Bullock
think Burks faces no minutes issues on return
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 11, 2021, 10:21:06 AM
DEN tossed out a zone in the 1Q and stopped Knick penetration, leaving the Knix to clang outside shots.  The DEN announcers noted that Coach Malone dislikes zones and rarely uses them, but it worked against NYK.  Likely other teams will take note.

Knick transition D still a disaster.
About the 3rd play of the game, NUGs push the ball, two go down the left side.  Randle follows his man, but nobody picks up Harris, as Elf (likely at fault) and Bullox  both stare at Jokic and the other NUG straight ahead.  Happened in the UTA game as well where no one picked up Bogdanovic who just walked to the left corner unguarded.  Other poor transition D plays as well, but the ones where two guys pick up the same assignment and one opponent goes unnoticed are particularly egregious.  Communicate.  Know who your man is.  Turn your head right and check the left side.

Knick bench got thoroughly outplayed.
No rhythm, not much teamwork.
DEN bench better than I thought.

Mont Morris is a lethal shooter.
JaMike is solid.  PJ "Bull" Dozier looked terrific, boarding and bombing.
I kind of forgot about Hartenstein, a big who likes to bang.  He looked interesting for HOU but Dantmanbee went ultra-small and IH wasn't involved there.

Campazzo has poise, even if he is 4'11"
BolBol a project but can block and pops 3's.
Cancar?  Nnaji?  I don't even know what country these names come from.
(Slovenia and father from Nigeria, respectively)
Nnaji and RJ Hampton 5 were both late 1st round picks.

So a young unproven deep bench.
And when porter returns you have Barton as well.
Mix and match and have one of Gary Harris or Murray or Jokic out there with the bench, and it works.  I'm not sold on DEN being any real threat in the West, but they are a quality team.
Title: Burks' Law
Post by: chipstern on January 11, 2021, 12:10:51 PM
Bo, the notion of Alexc Burks being marginalized by Frank and Reggie is kind of....uh, ODD.  As if your insistence that he is no more than a marginal player. 

Thibs has long had a rep for playing the players in the front of his rotation extra big minutes. 

Think that the injuries to Alec, Obi, Frank and Omari forced his hand. 

RJ and Julius have been logging way too many minutes. 

RJ's 40+ at SG/SF is just too damn much.  Know he is only 20, but he has had no legs under his jumper of late. 

As for your piss take on Burks, he was 18-20 from the FT line, and 10-15 from trey when he got hurt. 

Gimme a break. 

Put him on the floor at SF with Austin and Immanuel, and suddenly the latter are getting way more open looks. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 11, 2021, 01:09:57 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 11, 2021, 03:03:19 AM
Burks wasn't even starting and is a career 37% 3-Pt shooting journeyman on his 6th team in 3 years.  If he is our savior, we are beyond doomed.
Yes, he had an excellent 3-game streak of offensive brilliance to start the season -- though we still lost 2 of those.
Yes, he often misses plenty of games.

When Franc or Elf or RJB starts to launch a 3, a little uh-oh goes off in my head.
 
Reg Bollocks is a career 38% from 3.  And a significantly better defender than Burks.  Though Reg has shot worse the last 2 injury-plagued years.  And he has a rather limited handle.

I still prefer Reg (solid 3 & D) and Rivers (3 and ballhandling/passing) over Burks.
But that can change if Burks plays high level consistent team ball.

Assuming Thibs wants Bullox for his steadiness and D; and Rivers for his combo guard ability and pairing with IQ, I'm not sure what that leaves for Burks.  Especially if Franc is in the mix.  We'll see.  Reg and Au Revior aren't the most durable (neither is Burks).  Certainly have to get Burks some mins to see if he can distill some of that December all-star play.

So ...

Burks is on a career upswing, Bullock on a down, Burks has been a revelation THIS YEAR, but you slide Alec down the chute?

Radical, bro.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 11, 2021, 01:11:59 PM
There's a reason Bollocks was starting and Burks was bench.
If Rivers was available, Alec might not have gotten his op to go off the first three games. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 11, 2021, 01:20:27 PM
Bullock can’t carry a second unit by providing a serious scoring punch. Burks does, though that punch can also be used to juice a flagging starting unit.

Now that Quick and Rivers have somewhat emerged and Frank is on his way back, The bench is less dependent on a focal vet. Bullock can toughen and add D to the bench while Burks handle, eye, and trigger can open things up for our starting 5.
Title: What the Others Just Said..plus
Post by: lesterluv on January 11, 2021, 01:39:16 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 11, 2021, 01:11:59 PM
There's a reason Bollocks was starting and Burks was bench.
If Rivers was available, Alec might not have gotten his op to go off the first three games.

lol, Thibs says finishing more important that starting, and gave Burks more minutes than Bollocks in all three games he was available



*** he obviously like what he saw, and so did we
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 11, 2021, 02:59:31 PM
Thibs may also chose to run Burks and Bullock together a lot as both are sharper from three than RJ  who seems to be wearing down under this level of usage. RJ seems to play better with the kids lately, so that might be the shuffle once Burks returns.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 11, 2021, 04:43:04 PM
If the Knicks are to avoid their first three game losing streak under Thibs they would be wise to ditch their ugly new city uniforms which have brought them no luck.
Title: G League Draft--KNICKS PICK
Post by: chipstern on January 11, 2021, 05:11:05 PM
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pattoju01.html?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker- (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pattoju01.html?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-)

6'11" Center JUSTIN PATTON, 23 years old out of Creighton.

16th pick in the 2017 draft by Chicago.   

Had cameos with Minny, Philly and OKC. 

Alonzo Trier was picked by the T-Woves affiliate.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 11, 2021, 05:58:18 PM
Good.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 11, 2021, 06:02:52 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on January 11, 2021, 08:21:58 AM
eyetest for two journeymen in small sample size
Burks better than Bullock, team plays better with Burks than Bullock
think Burks faces no minutes issues on return

You can't say it better or briefer than this.

Can only add that Burks seems much more versatile with the ball as well.
Title: The Trump Epidemic Rolls On
Post by: bodiddley on January 11, 2021, 06:04:22 PM
10 games in and the season is starting to unravel.

My guess is that unless the League cuts to the front of the cue and gets everyone vaccinated the season will collapse.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 11, 2021, 06:33:44 PM
Right

Like baseball.
Title: Brian Sicknick
Post by: chipstern on January 11, 2021, 07:11:00 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 11, 2021, 02:59:31 PM
Thibs may also chose to run Burks and Bullock together a lot as both are sharper from three than RJ  who seems to be wearing down under this level of usage. RJ seems to play better with the kids lately, so that might be the shuffle once Burks returns.

NBA Season?

How about life on fucking Earth. 

Notable that with COVID surging to dangerous new peaks, and morphing with spooky mutations, our President is taking the time for a photo op by his beloved wall, whining about losing the 2022 PGA Championship at his Bedminster course, yet not having the simple decency to call the family of the police officer who had his skull caved in by his Legion Of White Supremacist QAnon Gorillas.  The President and Vice President Elect, and Seaker Pelossi have commisserated with the officer's family. 

Took the cowardly cocksucker until fucking Sunday to even lower the WH Flag to half staff. 

Meanwhile

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErZdUB6VkAApfUU.jpg)

God bless Officer Eugene Goodman, the man who saved the Senate.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 11, 2021, 07:24:51 PM
In the modern NBA, can you really have a starting five where only one guy can make threes?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 11, 2021, 07:28:12 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 11, 2021, 07:24:51 PM
In the modern NBA, can you really have a starting five where only one guy can make threes?

It would appear not.

Missing Inaction?

Gibson
Toppin
Bullock
Burks
Ntilikina

My GOD....Like An Entire Second Unit. 

Dennis Smith, please answer the Hospitality Phone. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 11, 2021, 07:43:18 PM
Over/under for Knicks 1st quarter points: 26.5

Knicks score: 25
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 11, 2021, 07:44:20 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 11, 2021, 07:28:12 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 11, 2021, 07:24:51 PM
In the modern NBA, can you really have a starting five where only one guy can make threes?

It would appear not.

Missing Inaction?

Gibson
Toppin
Bullock
Burks
Ntilikina

My GOD....Like An Entire Second Unit. 

Dennis Smith, please answer the Hospitality Phone.

Frank is always hurt
Title: Dos Equos
Post by: chipstern on January 11, 2021, 07:49:40 PM
Compadre. 

Apparently Kevin Knox heard you, failed PomPom Gurl.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 11, 2021, 08:02:35 PM
These refs aren’t calling it both ways.  Fouls and turnovers way off balance.
Title: WayWard HayWard
Post by: chipstern on January 11, 2021, 08:10:58 PM
Well, Gordon wanted to be THE MAN. 

Damn.

Kevin Knox with five treys.  Don't get well soon, Reggie. 

Somewhere, Dos Equos applying for his FanDuel Mulligan Payment On his BET. 
Title: Re: Dos Equos
Post by: carlos123 on January 11, 2021, 08:28:40 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 11, 2021, 07:49:40 PM
Compadre. 

Apparently Kevin Knox heard you, failed PomPom Gurl.

Chipirín (El más chingón), If you want to use Spanish you might as well learn a couple of words, or google for translation if you plan to keep using them. Oh, you don't wanna bother... Welcome to Chamaco's world!

And I would never be a PomPom Gurl, more like a Positive Pussy 😻
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 11, 2021, 08:57:15 PM
Carlos I believe Chip is calling you Dos Equos.

A portmanteau of Dos Equis + Carlos
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 11, 2021, 08:58:51 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 11, 2021, 08:57:15 PM
Carlos I believe Chip is calling you Dos Equos.

A portmanteau of Dos Equis + Carlos

Thanks

A BoD-ism.

PS: Ball's shot isn't falling, but man, do I love those full court Johnny Unitas passes. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 11, 2021, 09:20:53 PM
Ball's shot falling now. 

14 boards and 7 assists. 

Think Minny might be having second thoughts? 

Knicks utterly flummoxed by the Hornets ZONE. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 11, 2021, 09:30:37 PM
Ball is very good. Not sure why Golden State passed on him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 11, 2021, 10:16:27 PM
Notable that with COVID surging to dangerous new peaks, and morphing with spooky mutations, our President is taking the time for a photo op by his beloved wall, whining about losing the 2022 PGA Championship at his Bedminster course, yet not having the simple decency to call the family of the police officer who had his skull caved in by his Legion Of White Supremacist QAnon Gorillas.  The President and Vice President Elect, and Seaker Pelossi have commisserated with the officer's family.


Heh

Not exactly
Title: Chipirín (el más chingón)
Post by: carlos123 on January 11, 2021, 10:17:49 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 11, 2021, 08:57:15 PM
Carlos I believe Chip is calling you Dos Equos.

A portmanteau of Dos Equis + Carlos

I know Kam.

He thinks we're funny (like Chamaco).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 11, 2021, 10:20:52 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 11, 2021, 07:24:51 PM
In the modern NBA, can you really have a starting five where only one guy can make threes?

Yes.  If you stop taking so many

Thibs acting like the worm will just turn
Title: Re: WayWard HayWard
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 11, 2021, 10:23:13 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 11, 2021, 08:10:58 PM
Well, Gordon wanted to be THE MAN. 

Damn.

Kevin Knox with five treys.  Don't get well soon, Reggie. 

Somewhere, Dos Equos applying for his FanDuel Mulligan Payment On his BET.

AS usual, Knox just a tease

GORDY the true real deal.  How hard did we try for him?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 11, 2021, 10:24:59 PM
Good game for Elf

Quickley's a MESS
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 11, 2021, 10:27:07 PM
Knicks could have had CAREY at 25, then maybe IQ at 33.  If not, the replacement for Quicks may have been OK

Carey would look good as a Knick
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 11, 2021, 10:33:12 PM
The WIZ are just fine

AVDIJA starts

HACHIMURA

WAGNER

21point win
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 12, 2021, 12:05:22 AM
Gordo made little sense on these Knix and he is wildly overpaid.

Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 11, 2021, 10:24:59 PM
Good game for Elf

4 Assists, 3 Turns, 4 fouls, missed both his FT's and  ...  -24

Ok, so I need to see the game.
But what exactly did he do well?
____________________________________

Team didn't do so well with Reg Bull out.
What's wrong with Bollocks?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 12, 2021, 03:50:01 AM
Reggie hurt his hip. Probably the first guy we get back is Taj. Week to 10 for reevaluation of Burks, Obi, and Frank. No timetable on Reggie that I’ve seen.

Elf was better than Rivers against Charlotte as was Knox. Austin’s athletic limitations show up big when he plays long stretches. Hopefully he won’t have to do that for too much longer.

Mitch and Kevin are progressing nicely.
Title: Re: Chipirín (el más chingón)
Post by: chipstern on January 12, 2021, 05:57:31 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 11, 2021, 10:17:49 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 11, 2021, 08:57:15 PM
Carlos I believe Chip is calling you Dos Equos.

A portmanteau of Dos Equis + Carlos

I know Kam.

He thinks we're funny (like Chamaco).

Hardly, mi compadre. 

All of my neighbors are Dominican.  My best bro upstairs is 1/2 Puerto Rican/1/2 Jewish.

I've lived in Hispanic nabes of Manhattan since 1976, 1978, 1984. 

I DO HOWEVER, find some of your notions....amusing.  Such as preferring Mike Miller as a Coach to Thibs, and your most recent query at to how "is it just me or can Kevin Knox not play a lick." 

Denada.  El gusto es mio. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jerrya on January 12, 2021, 07:44:45 AM
Really having a hard time watching Barrett.  I don't think it's a matter of confidence, he's just a bad shooter.  He constantly throws up shots that are air balls or hits the backboard and not rim.  That's not just being off he's just not a shooter.  And as Clyde said, if you can't shoot by the time your in the league it's too late. 

I'd cut his minutes big time and give him the ultimatum...you are not allowed to shoot if your father that 15 ft. from the hoop. Even then, he'll probably still struggle.  BTW, over the last 10 years I don't see any draft picks that would be considered a pure shooters.  You can't win games without them.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 12, 2021, 09:33:48 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 12, 2021, 12:05:22 AM
Gordo made little sense on these Knix and he is wildly overpaid.

Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 11, 2021, 10:24:59 PM
Good game for Elf

4 Assists, 3 Turns, 4 fouls, missed both his FT's and  ...  -24

Ok, so I need to see the game.
But what exactly did he do well?
____________________________________

Team didn't do so well with Reg Bull out.
What's wrong with Bollocks?

You need to stop using +/- every time you want to knock a player

You state Elfrid is a woeful shooter.  Then when he goes 7-14 and someone says he had a nice game you go into dick mode.

Nobody here thinks Elfrid Payton is an All Star.  We went over his pluses/minuses, his worth in the offseason - and spoke of options we had at similar price or among rookies or stars we could obtain.

When someone says something obvious about a player - let it go.  Let the forum flow.  Dont be the forum nitpicker(wit).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 12, 2021, 09:37:39 AM
Based on how he is viewed here - isnt just making a  three pointer and making half his shots a nice accomplishment for this player - and something we'd see as a positive if he did it every time out?  Again - relative to the voices already heard on the matter.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 12, 2021, 09:48:57 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 12, 2021, 09:33:48 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 12, 2021, 12:05:22 AM
Gordo made little sense on these Knix and he is wildly overpaid.

Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 11, 2021, 10:24:59 PM
Good game for Elf

4 Assists, 3 Turns, 4 fouls, missed both his FT's and  ...  -24

Ok, so I need to see the game.
But what exactly did he do well?
____________________________________

Team didn't do so well with Reg Bull out.
What's wrong with Bollocks?

You need to stop using +/- every time you want to knock a player

You state Elfrid is a woeful shooter.  Then when he goes 7-14 and someone says he had a nice game you go into dick mode.

Nobody here thinks Elfrid Payton is an All Star.  We went over his pluses/minuses, his worth in the offseason - and spoke of options we had at similar price or among rookies or stars we could obtain.

When someone says something obvious about a player - let it go.  Let the forum flow.  Dont be the forum nitpicker(wit).

If you have eyes...and you actually watched the game, you know that Elfrid did not have a very good game at all despite 7-14. He scored some junk points in the 4th that made his stat line appear respectable when the game was long gone.

He was instrumental in our terrible start. Clyde went into a long riff about his failures as a shooter in his 7th season that was painfully true. Not Elf's worst game by any means, but certainly not good.

Q was better in some ways, but shot the ball horribly. Nonetheless, to the degree we did have mini-runs and offensive flow, this happened while he was in, at least he was probing the zone, and making things happen.
Title: Re: Chipirín (el más chingón)
Post by: carlos123 on January 12, 2021, 11:13:20 AM
Quote from: chipstern on January 12, 2021, 05:57:31 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 11, 2021, 10:17:49 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 11, 2021, 08:57:15 PM
Carlos I believe Chip is calling you Dos Equos.

A portmanteau of Dos Equis + Carlos

I know Kam.

He thinks we're funny (like Chamaco).

Hardly, mi compadre. 

All of my neighbors are Dominican.  My best bro upstairs is 1/2 Puerto Rican/1/2 Jewish.

I've lived in Hispanic nabes of Manhattan since 1976, 1978, 1984. 

I DO HOWEVER, find some of your notions....amusing.  Such as preferring Mike Miller as a Coach to Thibs, and your most recent query at to how "is it just me or can Kevin Knox not play a lick." 

Denada.  El gusto es mio.

Chipirin, I know you're Jewish. That's why I find it especially appalling that you go on stereotyping people, and so do my many Jewish friends. Those who know about the forum have apologized for you. I told them not to worry, every group of people is gonna have some bigots and that doesn't make everyone else the same.

The fact that you don't like my opinions doesn't make it ok to stereotype my kind.

The fact that you know many Hispanics doesn't give you license to find us "funny". And excuse me if I doubt that you're friends with your Dominican neighbors. Maybe you should ask your Puertorrican bro what he thinks about your calling people names like Dos Equos.

Again, if you're going to write Spanish words you should show some respect and look them up: De nada is pretty basic and you can't even spell that?

Like Chamaco, you find us lacking. Unlike him, you most probably don't think we're "bad hombres", I'll give you that. But you still have the "funny" part in common with him and the other Trumpistas.

PS. I'm not your "compadre".
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 12, 2021, 11:18:58 AM
I guess stupid Trump supporters are a bit touchy these days, after their hero's insurrection fizzled.

First off, it was a legit Q.    I was asking what Elf did well, since the stat line looked ok/iffy and we got killed when he was running the Point.  Nothing was obvious about him having a good game.
Why don't you just answer a Q or back up your assertion.

Instead you choose to be a meta-ass about it.
My advice is don't tell me or others what or how to post.
Because no one is going to listen to you.
And you just come off like an ass, as per usual.

It's well-known that Elf can't shoot no matter what his FG% is/was.  He has been good at floaters and crafty layups.  But he doesn't have range and clanks his 3's.  Teams tend to go under screens and leave him open, so many of his 3's are uncontested, which makes his % worse than it appears.

Lastly you've proven over the years that you are a shitty human being with racist tendencies and have been a supporter of Trump.  You don't like how I post?  Go elsewhere, contract diseases (the Trump epidemic would be fitting) and die off.  World will be better without your kind.  Asshole.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 12, 2021, 12:09:30 PM
Elf shot 1-6 FG outside of the restricted zone.
Down 17 with 3 mins left he made a 3, his lone non-layup make.

1Q: Elf missed all 3 of his FGA's, picked up his dribble 30 feet out and traveled hounded by Rozier, got blown by for a Devonte layup. 
Good game ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 12, 2021, 12:26:15 PM
yep..if you watched it, have an IQ over 56 or even the most limited ability to interpret reality, you saw it

(if you didn't watch it, don't bother)


** would really help to get as many semi proficient shooters back as soon as possible, i.e. a burks, a bullock, even a ntilikina, would help everybody
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 12, 2021, 12:45:58 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 12, 2021, 12:09:30 PM
Elf shot 1-6 FG outside of the restricted zone.
Down 17 with 3 mins left he made a 3.

1Q: Elf missed all 3 of his FGA's, picked up his dribble 30 feet out and traveled hounded by Rozier, got blown by for a Devonte layup. 
Good game ...

Good game within a bad for Elf.  Not uncommon when on BAD teams.

Its always about the team dynamic.  And plus/minus is refective of this - as you know.

If this was one of those games Payton couldnt "get the troops going" and that is a neg - sure - I'll buy it

By the way, Darryl Strawberry also hit all of his Mets HR when the game was not close.

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 12, 2021, 12:48:02 PM
As for the Trump stuff - time to move forward.  Doesnt seem like your ilk is interested in doing so.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 12, 2021, 12:52:47 PM
Can you believe folks haven't gotten over a Violent Insurrection and Attack on the seat of gov't yet?  Sheesh, that was last week for chrissakes ...
Title: My Ilk...not racist traitor scum...IQ's over 56, and then some :)
Post by: lesterluv on January 12, 2021, 12:58:50 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 12, 2021, 12:48:02 PM
As for the Trump stuff - time to move forward.  Doesnt seem like your ilk is interested in doing so.

rofl...how's that Benghazi thing going by the way?
Title: Your Ilk
Post by: carlos123 on January 12, 2021, 01:04:58 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 12, 2021, 12:48:02 PM
As for the Trump stuff - time to move forward.  Doesnt seem like your ilk is interested in doing so.

President Trump:  "March to the Capitol, PEACEFULLY AND PATRIOTICALLY...", Chamaco Cartero

It doesn't look like you're moving forward, does it?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 12, 2021, 01:08:08 PM
and Her Emails . . .


2Q: Gordy went Haywire.

2Q: Elf was involved with/complicit in 2 Knick turnovers.
Elf gets doubled 27 feet out, is in a bit of trouble, passes to Noel beyond the arc, where he has no game, and Nawlins passes weakly for a turnover.

Later Elf starts bringing the ball upcourt, Rozier pressures him some and Elf passes to Randle, who also has a man on him in the backcourt.  Randle one dribbles and his pass back to Elf is stolen by Devonte.

A better PG wouldn't have put his Bigs in those situations.  Elf needs to be able to dribble upcourt under pressure if his safety valve is also being guarded int he backcourt.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 12, 2021, 01:49:37 PM
anybody found that damn Obama birth certificate yet, I can't seem to remember...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 12, 2021, 01:53:39 PM
you know, if we just keep fighting we can LOCK UP HILLARY fellas
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 12, 2021, 02:28:31 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 12, 2021, 12:48:02 PM
As for the Trump stuff - time to move forward.  Doesnt seem like your ilk is interested in doing so.

We are moving forward. Impeachment, conviction, investigation, civil suits, sanctioning allies and supporters, exposing misdeeds, correcting the record, and reversing the policies while rooting out the loyalists. This is all part of how we’re moving forward in the face of the micropenis coup.

Trump approval down in the low to mid 30’s and sinking fast. It’s as favorable as things will be for the racist right wing for generations now.

This is moving forward. This is what progress looks like.

If the republican party had been viable politically, it would not have come to this.

Every ambulatory Knicks shooter needs more time in night school.

RJ’s legs are deader than he thinks they are. He needs to drop ten pounds if he’s going to have any bounce over this degree of grind.
Title: Re: Your Ilk
Post by: chipstern on January 12, 2021, 04:27:53 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 12, 2021, 01:04:58 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 12, 2021, 12:48:02 PM
As for the Trump stuff - time to move forward.  Doesnt seem like your ilk is interested in doing so.

President Trump:  "March to the Capitol, PEACEFULLY AND PATRIOTICALLY...", Chamaco Cartero

It doesn't look like you're moving forward, does it?

Sigh. 

"Ilk" 

You have my proxy, Carlos. 

Alas, the aroma of ignobility leeches through the firewall.  Enough is enough. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 12, 2021, 05:59:33 PM
RJ’s legs are deader than he thinks they are. He needs to drop ten pounds if he’s going to have any bounce over this degree of grind.


Interesting take.  I hadnt thought of Barrett's weight.  Could be you are right.

Shot selection I believe is the immediate fix he could be considering.  But always a fine line.  When you take aggressiveness away.....

How to be taking it to the opponent but still wise in your movements....
Title: Kyrie Irving
Post by: chipstern on January 12, 2021, 06:31:34 PM
High Maintenance.

You think?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 12, 2021, 06:36:17 PM
I guess.....

Doesnt matter

Nets did the right thing in not hiringa  my way or the highway coach, surely
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 12, 2021, 06:38:07 PM
Gonna check out LA-HOU tonight - then maybe a bit of Steph later on.  Draymond coming into form for 6-4 Warriors
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 12, 2021, 10:08:57 PM
In 5 Home games, RJB is shooting 4.8% from 3!  Just 1-21. 
13% overall on 3's.  Ouch.

RJB couldn't make a shot v CHA.
Randle looked tired to end the DEN game and for all of CHA.
Looks like Thibs ground down two of our best players in record time.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 12, 2021, 10:29:56 PM
Yeah - I can definitely tell his flaw - no way he has proper focus on the rim throughout

Looking at the numbers more closely - if Barrett were shooting last year's ,320 from deep he would be averaging 17.6 rather than 16 - and would be right at last year's .402 overall, still of course poor

FT % betterment for the 20 year old is promising

Boards and assists up, turnovers down
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 12, 2021, 10:42:23 PM
Achiuwa gets start for Bam, goes 7-10 for 17-13-3 line
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 12, 2021, 11:56:33 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 12, 2021, 10:29:56 PM
Boards and assists up, turnovers down

Boards and assists up die to an increase in minutes.
Basically, RJB is the same player as last year, with an extra slumpy 3-Pt shooting start.

I'm still working my way through the CHA game (aka Elf's good game).
2Q Elf had a pair of crafty layup drives.

3Q: Elf did nada in the first 6 mins.No FG's, not involved.

One play, ELF has the ball straightaway out on the arc.  Takes one dribble and passes to Rivers left elbow.  Rivers passes back to Elf who is a non-threat out there.  Elf passes to Randle on right elbow.  Just very-nothing moving it on the perimeter, but Elf's pass to Randle is down at his knees.  Fortunately Julius has good hands.  But that's a poor pass.  Even in shootaround I try to make crisp accurate passes.
You want Julius to get the ball and be a threat to shoot, fake or drive immediately, not have to fumble to catch a ball at his knees.

Immediately after that, IQ comes in to replace spacey Elf.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 13, 2021, 12:07:40 AM
CHA has a pair of rookies twins Caleb and Cody Martin.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 13, 2021, 12:25:15 AM
Technically Elf's good game came during the third contest of the season (which happened against the Bucks).
In fact since then he has had only one game where he scored less than 14 points (12 vs Denver).
He's still infuriating at times... able to get into the paint almost at will, only to frequently miss his shots.
He's perpetually a tease, pushing up layups like Sysiphus in Hades.
But he has been an average performer offensively if you look at PER.
Elf also won NCAA defensive player of the year in 2014 so he has ability to play both ends.
We shouldn't really expect a lot from him, but we shouldn't be too down on him either.  He is what he is and a pretty good bargain for what he brings.
He is the starter and until there's an injury or trade, or someone consistently outperforms him, he will continue to be the starter.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 13, 2021, 12:37:55 AM
Elf is a high quality backup PG.

I see a lot of similarity between ELF and RJB's game.
RJB has a better motor; while Elf can disappear at times.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 13, 2021, 01:59:26 AM
Very end of 3Q, Devonte dances behind a screen seconds ticking down, and Quickly goes under the pick giving Graham an open 3.  Bam, Knix down 14 to start the 4Q.
Rook mistake there.
Title: George Hill should give back his salary and stay home
Post by: Kam on January 13, 2021, 03:57:53 AM
George Hill on the newest COVID rules: “I'm a grown man, so I'm going to do what I want to do. If I want to go see my family, then I am going to go see my family. They can't tell me what I'm going to do. If it's that serious, maybe we shouldn't be playing."
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 13, 2021, 09:35:01 AM
Maybe he should just give up his salary and stay home.

Maybe he should see his family.

Maybe if it is that serious, they shouldn't be playing.

All true. The NBA and its players will struggle with the same issues as everybody else, though resourced in a way that few others are.

Hill is very fortunate, because he can afford to stay home and his family will still eat. That doesn't make his difficulties and decisions any less real.

Pandemics are hard!


*** I think there's a valid argument to be made for adding professional athletes in active competition to a vaccine priority group. Through travel and maskless, physical, person-to-person contact, their jobs put them and their families at serious risk. While not essential, they provide real benefits to public. And there are very few of them. Maybe 25,000 in all? a drop in the Pfizer bucket.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 13, 2021, 09:52:16 AM
But Kam, shouldn't George Hill have the freedom to infect others and jeopardize the livelihoods of thousands involved in the NBA? Isn't this still America?
.
.
.
.
.
.
Of course, if Hill doesn't want to follow his employer's rules, designed for basic safety, he can find another job paying $10M a year. 
Title: We Have A Winner
Post by: chipstern on January 13, 2021, 10:22:42 AM
He's perpetually a tease, pushing up layups like Sysiphus in Hades.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 13, 2021, 10:36:29 AM

Boards and assists up die to an increase in minutes.
Basically, RJB is the same player as last year, with an extra slumpy 3-Pt shooting start

Please - learn to use the charts at basketball-reference.com

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Glossary
Season   Age   Tm   Lg   Pos   G   GS   MP   FG   FGA   FG%   3P   3PA   3P%   2P   2PA   2P%   FT   FTA   FT%   ORB   DRB   TRB   AST   STL   BLK   TOV   PF   PTS
2019-20   19   NYK   NBA   SG   56   55   1704   6.2   15.4   .402   1.3   4.2   .320   4.8   11.2   .432   3.3   5.4   .614   1.1   4.8   5.9   3.0   1.2   0.4   2.6   2.6   17.0
2020-21   20   NYK   NBA   SG   11   11   417   5.7   15.6   .365   0.8   4.3   .180   4.9   11.3   .435   3.0   4.4   .686   1.5   5.8   7.3   3.3   0.9   0.2   1.6   2.1   15.2
Career         NBA      67   66   2121   6.1   15.4   .394   1.2   4.2   .291   4.9   11.2   .433   3.2   5.2   .626   1.1   5.0   6.2   3.1   1.1   0.3   2.4   2.5   16.6

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/barrerj01.html
Title: George Hill:'I'm Gonna Do What I Want to Do'
Post by: chipstern on January 13, 2021, 10:41:33 AM
Well, that was a window into his soul. 

"I'm a grown man."

Yes, with guaranteed salaries of $9,590,602, $10,047,297 for the next two years. 

But apparently not a very bright man.

In this country, we have seen how the simple act of not wearing a mask has been elevated to the level of a statement of libertatian fist bump.  Last week, when members of congress were sheltering with each other, GOP members pointedly refused to wear masks in closed quaters, and a number of congressman tested positive for COVID. 

We are grasping at straws here, and the NBA is doing it's level best to try and keep the game going and players employed, even in the absence of paying fans, in a non-bubble situation. 

As Kam suggests, the entire season could very well be suspended, and Mister Hill's frustration, manifested in his childish outburst, given his relative level of privilege when others are facing hunger and eviction, is...not helpful, least ways, as disturbing as Republcans on the floor of Congress speaking of how the process of healing must begin, when they have supported two solid months of divisive stop the steal rhetoric which culminated in an insurrectionist mob descending on the Capital and putting our democracy in mortal danger. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 13, 2021, 10:48:35 AM
Last week, when members of congress were sheltering with each other, GOP members pointedly refused to wear masks in closed quaters, and a number of congressman tested positive for COVID.


Baaahhhhhh!!!!

Needs further study, Mr Sheep
Title: Shitting Himself In Public 10x a day, since...?
Post by: lesterluv on January 13, 2021, 10:59:27 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 13, 2021, 10:48:35 AM
Last week, when members of congress were sheltering with each other, GOP members pointedly refused to wear masks in closed quaters, and a number of congressman tested positive for COVID.


Baaahhhhhh!!!!

Needs further study, Mr Sheep

No it doesn't need any further study. Nearly 400,000 dead Americans are study enough.

You are a fucking moron, lol. People have already caught it because of the unmasked idiot Republicans at the Capitol.

Hopefully you'll catch it from a fellow Republican sheep idiot and die, lol. That would be good, furthering the glorious goodness in what's been a fantastic year already:)
Title: I'm A Grown Man
Post by: chipstern on January 13, 2021, 11:47:23 AM
400,000 Deaths By Inauguration Day, Well On Track To Exceed Combat Losses In WWII By The First Day Of Spring. 

And what are GOP legislators agitating for?

The right to bear amrs--carry weapons--on to the floor of Congress, agitating against the tyranny of metal detectors. 

Sort of like the right to drive drunk, to possess child porn and to carry guns on to ariplane flights. 

My GOD. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 13, 2021, 12:35:52 PM
Agitatin'

heh

Another moment that has been overblown
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 13, 2021, 12:38:21 PM
Members of both parties expressed frustration Tuesday night at the long lines ahead of the entrance to the House floor. Many Republicans view the measure as invasive, but several Democrats called them necessary as they increasingly view their colleagues across the aisle as security threats.


Last bit of wording is just made up fluff
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 13, 2021, 12:47:01 PM
lol, you are determined to cover yourself in your own shit 10 times a day. I think you've hit 5!


*** take a deep breath, slow down, it's barely lunch time yet
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 13, 2021, 01:06:43 PM
Inexplicably, RJB shot 7-8 on 3's in two games v. IND.
In the other 9 games, RJ is just 2-42.  Weird.

RJB 9 is 9-50 on the season.  Last night Danny Green made 9 threes in one game.
Title: The Science of Chamaco
Post by: carlos123 on January 13, 2021, 01:28:07 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 13, 2021, 10:48:35 AM
Last week, when members of congress were sheltering with each other, GOP members pointedly refused to wear masks in closed quaters, and a number of congressman tested positive for COVID.


Baaahhhhhh!!!!

Needs further study, Mr Sheep

Other things that need further study:

Global warming is a Chinese Hoax, Donald J. Trumptin.

The Earth is flat, Kyrie Irving.

Chamaco Cartero needs all the attention he can get, Czarlos.

Fellas, I think Chamaco craves our attention. He'll keep on posting crazy stuff so that we'll respond to it. Then he'll boast to his fellow trumpistas that he owns the libs on the forum.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 13, 2021, 02:09:18 PM
Kid is just dreaming of the day his prison wallet is completely full of hard pounding nazi dick.

This has always been the basis of his support for the republican party. It’s looking more and more that to fill this gaping hole in his heart kid will literally have to go to prison.

His parler tinder love life has been fully shut down.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on January 13, 2021, 03:10:57 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 13, 2021, 10:48:35 AM
Last week, when members of congress were sheltering with each other, GOP members pointedly refused to wear masks in closed quaters, and a number of congressman tested positive for COVID.


Baaahhhhhh!!!!

Needs further study, Mr Sheep

Jeez Kiid, you are indeed a complete fucking moron, always have been...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 13, 2021, 03:17:04 PM
One day there will be a glorious void of IQ-sub 50 posts in the forum, and you know it means he's been taken away to the ICU. And it will be sad, cause you know ain't NOBODY visiting his rancid ass, lol.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 13, 2021, 04:00:16 PM
Quote from: Jack Straw on January 13, 2021, 03:10:57 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 13, 2021, 10:48:35 AM
Last week, when members of congress were sheltering with each other, GOP members pointedly refused to wear masks in closed quaters, and a number of congressman tested positive for COVID.


Baaahhhhhh!!!!

Needs further study, Mr Sheep

Jeez Kiid, you are indeed a complete fucking moron, always have been...

Who the fuck are you?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 13, 2021, 04:13:32 PM
Harden to the Nets
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on January 13, 2021, 04:22:37 PM
I wonder if the Nets are sending a headcase back to Houston.

(Nope-3 headed monster in Brooklyn)

4 1s and other stuff

lotta GFIN risk in Brooklyn

Oladipo going to Houston for LeVert.

And thats not the day's biggest news!

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 13, 2021, 04:28:46 PM
Nope
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 13, 2021, 04:29:37 PM
Looks like LaVert + to IND, OLadipo to HOU with J Allen and 4 first rounders.  Exum also to HOU and Kurucs I think to CLE

Nets have a big three

I expected another HOU name back to BK, havent heard yet
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 13, 2021, 04:32:30 PM
Wall
Oladipo
Gordon
Wood
Cousins
Allen

Actually Cousins to Nets might make some sense - can they deal him yet?

HOU back to back games vs LAL I think, plus the Kyrie mess, sealed the deal on both ends
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 13, 2021, 04:41:05 PM
Just wondering how this all could be.  After all, Chipstern assured us no way BK would/could pull this off.

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 13, 2021, 04:46:36 PM
ALLEN to Cleveland - makes sense in case Drummond takes off somewhere (or of course now they could deal him)

So Rockets basically get Oladipo (dealt for Harden a second time) and a bevy of picks, plus Exum and Kurucs  for Harden.

Not sure this is enough

https://www.nba.com/news/reports-nets-acquire-james-harden-trade
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 13, 2021, 04:49:18 PM
You are an idiot. No reason you should be any less dumb about basketball than you are about anything else.
Title: WOW: Done Deal
Post by: chipstern on January 13, 2021, 04:52:22 PM
The Rockets have sent James Harden to the Nets in a blockbuster four-team trade that also involves the Pacers and Cavaliers, completing the disgruntled star's exit from Houston and setting up a potential super team in Brooklyn, sources tell ESPN's Adrian Wojnarowski and Ramona Shelburne.

The Nets sent Houston a package that includes multiple players and draft picks and features guard Caris LeVert, who was then traded to the Pacers for Victor Oladipo, sources tell ESPN.

Center Jarrett Allen and forward Taurean Prince are headed from the Nets to the Cavs in the deal, according to sources, while the Rockets receive Cleveland guard Dante Exum and Brooklyn forward Rodions Kurucs

Houston also receives Brooklyn's three unprotected first-round draft picks -- 2022, 2024 and 2026 -- in the deal, plus pick swaps in 2021, 2023, 2025 and 2027, according to sources. The Rockets also get Cleveland's 2022 first-round pick, via the Milwaukee Bucks.

The megadeal reunites Harden with former Oklahoma City teammate Kevin Durant in Brooklyn and positions the Nets, who also have All-Star guard Kyrie Irving, as a title contender in the Eastern Conference.

The trade was agreed to after the Rockets opted to keep Harden away from Wednesday's practice, following the former MVP's comments Tuesday that Houston isn't "good enough" to compete for a championship.
Title: So....The All Martinet BackCourt
Post by: chipstern on January 13, 2021, 05:05:06 PM
Let's see....

Houston now has a Wall/Olidaipo back court, with Rodions Kurucs at SF.  Plus Dante Exum. Kind of slim pickings.   

However....a bushel of draft picks, for what they are worth. 

Nets basically gave up SG/SF LaVert, C Allen, SF Kurucs, unprotected #1 picks in 2022, 2024, 2026, and flip swap rights in the odd/off years, 2021, 2023, 2025, 2027. 

So a steal or a Hershel Walker trade? 

If everyone is healthy, a veteran win NOW rotation: C DeAndre Jordan, PF Durant, SF Harris, SG Harden, PG Irving will be playing BIG FUCKING MINUTES--make Thibs look like a piker. 

Bench depth?  Jeff Green, Landry Shamet, Tyler Johnson, Nicholas Claxton, Reggie Perry and Spencer Dinwiddie when he returns. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 13, 2021, 05:16:15 PM
Looks like Durant, Jordan, and Harris scratching their heads, wondering what the fuck is wrong with Irving and Harden most nights.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 13, 2021, 05:28:59 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 13, 2021, 05:16:15 PM
Looks like Durant, Jordan, and Harris scratching their heads, wondering what the fuck is wrong with Irving and Harden most nights.

Nah

Ready to rock and roll, I think.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 13, 2021, 05:29:54 PM
Van Gundy on 98.7 KILLING the Knicks.

Absolutely ROASTING our talent.
Title: Re: So....The All Martinet BackCourt
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 13, 2021, 05:32:53 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 13, 2021, 05:05:06 PM
Let's see....

Houston now has a Wall/Olidaipo back court, with Rodions Kurucs at SF.  Plus Dante Exum. Kind of slim pickings.   

However....a bushel of draft picks, for what they are worth. 

Nets basically gave up SG/SF LaVert, C Allen, SF Kurucs, unprotected #1 picks in 2022, 2024, 2026, and flip swap rights in the odd/off years, 2021, 2023, 2025, 2027. 

So a steal or a Hershel Walker trade? 

If everyone is healthy, a veteran win NOW rotation: C DeAndre Jordan, PF Durant, SF Harris, SG Harden, PG Irving will be playing BIG FUCKING MINUTES--make Thibs look like a piker. 

Bench depth?  Jeff Green, Landry Shamet, Tyler Johnson, Nicholas Claxton, Reggie Perry and Spencer Dinwiddie when he returns.

Wood
Gordon
Cousins
House
McLemore
Tate
Tucker
Nwaba
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 13, 2021, 05:34:19 PM
Not sure how consequential the picks will be

My guess is 2 of the 3 are dealt again
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 13, 2021, 05:37:38 PM
The freak show on Coney Island now has to compete with the one on Atlantic Avenue.
Title: Nyets
Post by: carlos123 on January 13, 2021, 06:21:28 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 13, 2021, 05:37:38 PM
The freak show on Coney Island now has to compete with the one on Atlantic Avenue.

Yep, I wouldn't want to be Steve Nash right now.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 13, 2021, 06:32:03 PM
I surely expect these Nets to end up extraordinary....for a while.

What's it, 2 of the top 5, 3 of the top 8 or 10 offensive talents in the league?

Lol, that's a ridiculous.

I think Nash will get his sea legs under him too. Brilliant offensive mind. Should. And D'Ant right behind him if not and if so.

Not risk free of course, Harden looks fatter than a country hog and Kyrie is still MIA with a swiss-cheese brain. And as Aaron Gordon said yesterday of the Covid, it's starting to get janky. Wild cards added to wild cards.

But they were already all in, had to go all the way all the way, more power to them.
***pretty good job by Houston considering the situation
** It matters not that I detest that game-destroying lardass choke specialist and what he's wrought on this sport, not a whit...
* Even if everything gels just so and they make it to the finals, they're still not getting past LeBron, no way, no how sir....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 13, 2021, 06:52:29 PM
What did Indiana receive? 

Edit: Caris Lavert
Title: Tonight
Post by: Kam on January 13, 2021, 06:56:13 PM
No excuse now for the Knicks to lose to this depleted team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 13, 2021, 08:39:41 PM
Might have to burn these uniforms at halftime.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 13, 2021, 10:01:44 PM
Fake comebacks are back on the menu.

Rivers showed why he gets paid like a third or fourth string guard.

Kids looked good. Barret, Quickley, Mitch, and Knox.

We just gotta stay healthy and keep grinding.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 13, 2021, 10:02:32 PM
Reggie Perry looked very good for Brooklyn.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 13, 2021, 11:46:46 PM
Not a good L.

Rivers isn't consistent, and when he plays long minutes reverts to being a mistake player.
A nice bench role player who can provide a spark.

So CLE entered the trade to make the money work and pilfered Jarhead Allen and Taureen?
If so, great job.  Those guys are solid, and Allen quite young.  And they dumped marginal Exum as well.
Couldn't the Knix have stepped in?  Trade Franc and Noel (= to Exum's $9M) for Jar Allen and Prince Taureen.

I like the Lavert for Oladipo swap by IND.  O has been struggling to get back in form after last year's injury.
And will be a FA.
IND needs a dynamic penetartor/athlete to go with their very solid core of Brogdon- Sabonis - MyTurn
Basically, Caris is a younger healthier and (likely) cheaper Oladipo.  Great move.

As for Kyrie, after the Nash hiring but before the season started, Irving said that the Nets don't really need a coach and the way h figured it some nights Kyrie would act as coach, others it would be Durant, and sometimes they'd actually let Nash coach.  What a jerk.
Been saying all along I'm glad we didn't get Kyrie and Durant.  They weren't gonna go far.  Adding Harden sounds like a mess.
One ball, three ballhogs.  3 huge egos.  3 guys who tend to slack on D (KD has reverted back to his OKC form after actually playing D for GSW).
We'll see.  They really could use Dinwiddie for when Kyrie has a boo-boo or mental issue flareup.
They will have enough firepower to smoke some folks.
And it really all comes down to the playoffs anyway for them.
This will test my old theory that whichever team has Jeff Green is doomed in the playoffs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 13, 2021, 11:53:40 PM
Cleveland gave up a late first as well

---

Looks like Ty H having his best game tonight
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 14, 2021, 12:05:39 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 13, 2021, 11:53:40 PM
Cleveland gave up a late first as well

Probably because Exum sucks.
We could have given them Franc and Noel -- two useful role players -- and no 1st.
Or Smith Jr and Noel and maybe a DAL 1st.

Just wonder if Knix were aware of what was going down and thought about getting in on the action.  There was talk that HOU was calling all around the League.  And part of that would have been trying to find a cap space team to absorb some money.  Mitch and Allen would be an excellent C platoon.  Prince a solid bench SF.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 14, 2021, 12:19:14 AM
TyH has been putting up pretty consistent 14 & 7 on 50% shooting.
This game looks like a slight uptick.
He had been among the league leaders in Assist/Turnover.
His Turns have been up a little lately, but he was moved into the starting lineup when Holmes was out.
And in two of his 3 TO games (including this one) he stepped out of bounds, which is of course no reflection of passing/ballhandling ability.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 14, 2021, 01:03:54 AM
Can’t trade Noel yet. Back to the drawing board, Bo.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 14, 2021, 01:20:18 AM
Cavs release Thon Maker. He’d look good here. He could easily take Dennis’ spot since Austin Rivers has so adequately replaced his production.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 14, 2021, 01:31:31 AM
Unimportant, Nawlins would just be a surplus feller if we got Jar Allen.  So I included him.  Actually I didn't realize Father Noel was making $5M, I thought it was more like $2.5M.  And I don't even know what amount of salary we're trying to send HOU either -- or if it matters.   I was just going by Exum's $9M.

We have plenty of other candidates to toss in a deal such as Smith Jr, Franc, creaky Bullock (replaced by Taureen) Iggy, Burks, Rivers.

Smith Jr and Iggy and a DAL 1st for Jar Allen and Taureen?
Sign me up.
Franc and Iggy and a DAL 1st for Allen and Taureen?
I'd take that talent infusion too.
We could use two more defenders.  Prince might start ...

Bullock and Smith for same Nets pair.  YES
Bollock and Franc for Allen and Prince.  Sure thing.
Note: I didn't include a 1st rounder in those deals.
HOU wants Burks instead of Bullox? -- I am amenable.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 14, 2021, 03:59:18 AM
Actually CLE only gave up Exum (bum on $9M ending deal) and MIL's 1st rounder (circa #25) to get Jarrett Allen and Taureen Prince.  Quite the heist.
I assume because the Harden trade wasn't going down without the Cavs absorbing salary.  So what I put in the last post is likely far too generous.

But it should have been easy for the Knix to replace CLE's minimal ante.
Hope the Knix brass were aware of the opportunity and considered getting involved.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 14, 2021, 04:36:17 AM
I think the Nyets were happier to enrich Cleveland rather than their crosstown rivals in the process of landing Harden.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 14, 2021, 06:59:56 AM
Sure, but we're not really a competitor.
I think the trade was more based on what HOU would agree to.

Nets game:
Uncle Julius really carried the team 1st half.
BKY was leaving Knix open for outside shots.

I'm midway through the 3Q and Rovers looked fine.
Finished 3-10 FG's, but missed a pair of first half layups that were very makeable.
Did get faked out by Joe Harris and burned back door once.  But seemed like a solid game from Au Revoir.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 14, 2021, 09:12:28 AM
Knicks will have a chance at Allen in the offseason.  We will see how much Bo likes him then - when he comes up with an offer for Cavs to match.

Meanwhile Prince has 15+ mil for NEXT year as well.  Cleveland seems to not be worried about the cap space hit.

On the block:  JaVale McGee and Andre Drummond, both unrestricted for next year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 14, 2021, 09:14:50 AM
Cavs took Prince/Allen in with their trade exception.  I dont think we have one

Report does say the NETS called Cle, by the way.  Cavs had asked for Allen a few times since the '17 draft.  I guess BK coyuld have called all the other teams but I figure time was of the essence

One question would be if HOU really said no to Allen.  With Wood on board - could be.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 14, 2021, 09:16:38 AM
One other thing - Knicks have to re-up MITCH this offseason.  To also be tasked with matching on Allen may have mucked up the picture a bit.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jerrya on January 14, 2021, 09:35:50 AM
 RJ barret currently looks like a bust for a number 3 pick.  Right now he is a killer  who can’t shoot. 

Knox has arrived as a solid rotational piece 

Quickley is a high level backup pg in the nba. Perfect for what we need him to be.

  Mitchel Robinson is our starting center. He is a double double every night. He need to expand 1 more skill set to get him to a borderline all star level.

We are losing currently because other teams are more proficient from 3,
Fix this and we will get wins
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 14, 2021, 09:40:33 AM
Any word on Toppin?

Was he just not moving well, so Thibs removed him right away?

I thought Barrett found something later in the game last night.  A few Js looked pure.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 14, 2021, 10:24:34 AM
The other day I quickly skimmed through recent #3 picks and it was a little discouraging.  A lot of teams got franchise players/all-stars at #3.
Luka
RJB
Tatum
Jaylen Brown
Okafor (a rare #3 miss -- we took KZ next at #4)
Embiid
Otto Porter
Brad Beal
Title: Too early to declare RJ a bust
Post by: Kam on January 14, 2021, 10:40:33 AM
Take a look at Bradley Beal in his first two seasons at the same age as RJ and tell me you see a big difference.

Beal with a better 3 ball, RJ a better rebounder.

Too early to declare RJ a bust.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 14, 2021, 11:12:36 AM
Analytics - Barrett

PER

2020 - 10.7
2021 - 10.8

Double digit game score

2020 - 21 of 56
2021 - 6 of 12

18+ game score -

2020 - 6 of 56
2021 - 3 of 12

20+ game score -

2020 - 3 of 56
2021 - 2 of 12


PROGRESS.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 14, 2021, 11:24:05 AM
From 3-land, Beal shot 39% and then 40% his first two years.
That's elite.

RJB isn't a bust.  He's a hard worker, mature, physical with some solid skills.
But also notable deficiencies.  He should be a long term starter.  I'm hoping he hones his defense -- which is up and down for now -- regardless if he ever learns to shoot well from distance.  Boarding,  drives, hustle, midrange, some playmaking.  That's solid.  Add in good defense, which he has the tools and energy for, and he's a nice player.

But relative to other draft classes, RJB was a weak #3 pick.
Twas a 2-man draft and we were slotted 3rd.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 14, 2021, 11:30:38 AM
Beal was drafted as a 3pt shooter.  That was his rep.  RJB is a great mid-range shooter.  He is trying to shift his range farther out.  He isn't afraid.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 14, 2021, 11:38:04 AM
I like the '19 draft.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 14, 2021, 11:57:08 AM
Quote from: Kam on January 14, 2021, 11:30:38 AM
RJB is a great mid-range shooter.

Says you ... and maybe RJB's mom.
RJB is highly erratic with his midrange shooting.
Last year from 3'-10' RJB shot 27%; this year 28%.
10'-16' 28% then, 30% now.

He has upped his FT% from an anemic 61% to an almost respectable 70%
He is good at finishing around the rim
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 14, 2021, 12:01:14 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 14, 2021, 11:38:04 AM
I like the '19 draft.

A lot of pretty good/interesting PF's.  Probably the best PF draft in a long time.
Zionista, Hachimura, PJ Washington, Cam Johnson, Brandon Clarke, Jax Hayes, Eric Paschall
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 14, 2021, 12:04:36 PM
Barrett is a scorer - not a shooter. 

If we are discussing BEAL vs BARRETT -

Bradley was steady his first 4 years in the league, then took off year 5

Barrett will be an improver his first 4 - on an incline from a lower start than BB due to the lower percentages.  INCLINE - but will he pop in years 5+?  Remains to be seen.

BEAL - see under ADVANCED - TS%, assist%, usage starting in year 5, leading to positive win shares per 48 (above .100, which is league average)

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bealbr01.html

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 14, 2021, 12:10:23 PM
Re:  2019

Nick Alexander-Walker had 37 last night

K Johnson and Horton-Tucker have emerged - and Nets EXPECT Nic Claxton to do so.

Bazley is going to be just fine - and I expect the same from Windler.  So many of the others already contributing or even excelling.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 14, 2021, 05:07:35 PM
(https://preview.redd.it/dilcq32cn7b61.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=dc87c74660c57571db677b2845a083ffa6235837)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 14, 2021, 06:13:51 PM
Baby steps.
Title: My God
Post by: chipstern on January 15, 2021, 08:44:38 PM
Shams Charania: Minnesota Timberwolves star Karl-Anthony Towns says he has tested positive for coronavirus. 🙏🏽 – via Twitter ShamsCharania

KAT lost his mother to COVID. 

Kind thoughts going out to the young man. 
Title: Cavs have no guards
Post by: Kam on January 15, 2021, 09:01:31 PM
How is this a game?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 15, 2021, 09:08:07 PM
Manny playing well tonight
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 15, 2021, 09:25:56 PM
Pritchard hot from the corner tonight as well

Should be cool watching these 2 one up each other as time goes by
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 15, 2021, 10:06:48 PM
We literally fumbled that game away. The kids I can somewhat forgive as works in progress. The ball handling and playmaking of the vets in our backcourt left a lot to be desired.

Ready to see Quickley RJ Knox Randle and Mitch start, assuming Mitch’s ankle is ok.

Glad Obi is back & hope we can activate Taj soon. Our skinny bigs took a beating tonight.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 15, 2021, 10:09:09 PM
It does look more and more like IQ could be starting soon.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 15, 2021, 10:20:28 PM
Damn.

Not pretty.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 15, 2021, 10:28:49 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 15, 2021, 10:09:09 PM
It does look more and more like IQ could be starting soon.

Nah, Thibs still needs permission via an external event, i.e. meteor strike or Russian invasion.

** btw, Thibs shoulda stuck with Noel who was inspired while Mitch looked a little hobbled and humiliated. Not complaining though, despite the end game follies I largely enjoyed the evening.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 15, 2021, 11:31:32 PM
Looks like another good game from Elf.
Hey, he shot 4-7 FG.
And Bo said he wasn't a shooter -- what a moke.


"I am such a schmuck"
 - Donald J. Trump
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 15, 2021, 11:52:29 PM
Elf is a fine reserve SF in today’s NBA. There his lack of range can be forgiven. 0 dimes to 3 TO. It’s an issue.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 16, 2021, 12:15:02 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 19, 2020, 12:05:44 AM
It's going to be helpful to have a team stocked with deep bench guys who can play, as likely during the season some teammates are gonna test + for CV.

Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 19, 2020, 12:15:50 AM
Doomsday Bo
The NBA just had ONE positive test in 542.
But yes, rather than enjoy the start of the season we will be thinking our guys could get infected
Freak.

Of course when you are a Trump supporter you are prone to bouts of stupidity since you are wedded to a set of falsehoods, delusions and reality denialism.  Amazing that some folks still downplaying the virus, probably because it'll likely go away on its own any day now.

Right now, WIZ have SIX CV positive players.  Nearly half the roster.
Games are being called off left and right.
The season's continuance very much in jeopardy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 16, 2021, 12:17:59 AM
In other great hot takes, Ty Haliburton is just another Franc ... if Franc were leading his team in Assists and 3Pt FG% ...
Title: Knicks fans got jokes
Post by: Kam on January 16, 2021, 01:39:10 AM
(https://i.redd.it/5kj1m1vy4mb61.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 16, 2021, 08:24:28 AM
1st Knick possession.  Nance cheats way over towards Randle, who kicks to Payton.  No one within 10' of him.  Clanks a 3.

Late int he 2nd, Mitch gets the ball at right 3-Pt elbow.  Drops it off to Randle near the baseline.
I look on the weak side and Knix have Elf and RJB spotting up.  Kinda sad.

Cavs, without a PG the whole game, beat us.  Datsun was there PG. 
Bulldog Drummond dominated.
When he came into the League I thought he could do such damage nightly.
But he's still sloppy with his handle, puts up some lazy shots, misses FT's.
Killed us, but shouldn't he be working out with Shaq in the Summer.
Need to have a killer instinct every night.

Oz hit 5-9 3's and was sweet on the break.
Okoro a nice player without a shot (one wide open 3 barely grazed the front rim).
Quicks was very active.  I enjoy his full court D.  His 3-shot looks a little odd, so i'm not surprised he's a bit erratic with it.  But they mostly went in this game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 16, 2021, 11:36:23 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 15, 2021, 11:31:32 PM
Looks like another good game from Elf.
Hey, he shot 4-7 FG.
And Bo said he wasn't a shooter -- what a moke.


"I am such a schmuck"
 - Donald J. Trump

Couple strong takes to the hoop

3 turnovers.

Thibs inserted Payton back in at 6 minute mark of 4th, trailing a couple.  Then removed him again 2 minutes later and IQ saw out the loss.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 16, 2021, 11:53:04 AM
Real sloppy last 4 mins from both teams.

Datsun came up big late.  Finally nailing a 3, made 2 key FT's (on Randle's clear path foul -- dumb rule) and then a driving layup.  I would have liked him still on the Knickers.

Drummond capped off a Big Night with a key late steal.  He had 5 fouls when he did that too.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 16, 2021, 12:03:39 PM
I cracked up at Knicks TV group lauding Dotson so at the end of the contest.

Yeah, he made key shots but the best Cavs on the night were surely OSMAN, with DRUMMOND

Only occasional nods to Cedi - which was comical.  White guys disease.
Title: nah...that ain't the "white guy disease" ya slimy little peckerwood
Post by: lesterluv on January 16, 2021, 12:20:54 PM
it's something different altogether. Here's my new favorite guy btw...

"If it weren't my job I'd have done it for free, it was absolutely my pleasure to crush a White Nationalist insurrection...we'll do it as many times as it takes." - DC police officer Daniel Hodges

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/i-would-have-done-that-for-free-dc-officer-on-being-crushed-against-door-during-capitol-riot/2542428/ (https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/i-would-have-done-that-for-free-dc-officer-on-being-crushed-against-door-during-capitol-riot/2542428/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 16, 2021, 12:40:55 PM
All game, Cavs announcers were lauding the effort from Dotson the past 5 games when no actual PG was available and DD played big minutes out of position.  He shot better the last 3 and had nice assist totals in 3 straight.
Also, while Dotson was missing in the 1st half, Drummond got the O board on a number of his shots.  I didn't know that Dot had been been playing fill-in Point.

Cavs announcers certainly appreciated Oz Man's effort all game.
While they were in awe of Drummond's marauding.
Contract year Bulldog Drummond could be quite something.

CLE catch a break with WAS quarantined.  So their next two games against the WIZ cancelled, and they get nearly a week to get some guards healthy.  And some practices for Jar Allen and Prince Taureen.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 16, 2021, 02:38:46 PM
The thing about Dotson's buckets was that he made the plays when they really counted. The one thing basketball stats rarely capture is who comes through in the clutch.

Mitch seemed to have a relatively weak game. Not only did Drummond have his way bullying him below, but he seems a bit out of it on offense. Later I heard something about him having hurt his ankle?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 16, 2021, 04:21:24 PM
Yup. He clanged a dunk attempt on the rim and came down hard on it. He limped through the rest of his minutes.

I’ve been clamoring for a BIG big guy on the roster for just these matchups.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 16, 2021, 08:11:23 PM
Love watching Harden to Durant to...... Bruce Brown in crunch time! Shame these guys can't have a packed Barclays for this.

**** Damn Harden is chonky as hell... pandemic 35 not 15
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 16, 2021, 08:57:42 PM
Jamessss.........


HARDENNNNN!!!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 16, 2021, 09:10:46 PM
Thibs last night - asked if he was ready to make changes


- "We MADE changes."


No time for a followup - and likely no balls from the media anyway.
Title: James Harden
Post by: chipstern on January 16, 2021, 11:10:39 PM
Well, shut my mouth. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on January 16, 2021, 11:58:46 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 16, 2021, 04:21:24 PM
Yup. He clanged a dunk attempt on the rim and came down hard on it. He limped through the rest of his minutes.

I’ve been clamoring for a BIG big guy on the roster for just these matchups.

Yes. I felt this way from Day1.  Boston uses thugs to great advantage.  Knicks would be smart to employ one.

With Taj onboard that's less likely.
Title: Boston
Post by: carlos123 on January 17, 2021, 01:03:28 AM
Hey Bank, tell your guys to take it easy on The Poor Knicks.

I mean, you will win, no need to give us a merciless beating, ok?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 17, 2021, 11:47:24 AM
Kemba back today - on minutes limit.  But quite a few Celts out

I smell a Knicks win.

Title: Re: Boston
Post by: bankshot1 on January 17, 2021, 11:59:39 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 17, 2021, 01:03:28 AM
Hey Bank, tell your guys to take it easy on The Poor Knicks.

I mean, you will win, no need to give us a merciless beating, ok?

Carlos as a courtesy to you I put a call in to Brad and asked him to sit Tatum and play the kids, and he agreed but said Kemba might give it a shot.

No promises.

I got no idea what to expect.

Last time we chatted knicks were kicking ass,  what happened?
Title: Synopticon
Post by: bodiddley on January 17, 2021, 12:58:34 PM
Unsurprisingly it was a mirage.
Elf & Rivers slumped.  Quicks very up and down.  Burks still out.  RJB erratic and hugely slumpy from 3.  So NYK guard play went into the toilet.

Meanwhile, teams started playing zone and daring our poor shooters to shoot.  I'd be interested to know the Knix FG% on open and wide open 3's.  Especially the last 6 games or so.

Teams have packed the paint to reduce layups.  And doubled Randle who's still carrying us, but not at as superman a level as earlier. 
The increased 3's and fewer drives mean fewer FT's.
Lastly Knick transition D is awful, allowing teams easy early offense baskets.
Randle & RJB getting fatigued.

I think that about synopsizes that.
Title: Re: Boston
Post by: carlos123 on January 17, 2021, 01:42:36 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on January 17, 2021, 11:59:39 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 17, 2021, 01:03:28 AM
Hey Bank, tell your guys to take it easy on The Poor Knicks.

I mean, you will win, no need to give us a merciless beating, ok?

Carlos as a courtesy to you I put a call in to Brad and asked him to sit Tatum and play the kids, and he agreed but said Kemba might give it a shot.

No promises.

I got no idea what to expect.

Last time we chatted knicks were kicking ass,  what happened?

Thank you Bank. It was nice to win a quarter.

What happened? Knicks back to Earth.

And, all of what BoZ said.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 17, 2021, 01:51:45 PM
Ah shit, i didn't know it was a day game.
MLK Day right?
Just tuned in, hope my internet connection holds up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 17, 2021, 02:02:44 PM
I tune in mid 2Q and Beaujolais chucks a trio of treys.  And all I'm thinking is Thank You.

Celts might want to think up some better O.
Quickly scoring easily.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on January 17, 2021, 02:08:15 PM
in the annals of homer announcers, Boston has a special place, yeah I know most announcers are homers, though I do think Breen and Clyde play it pretty straight (and back in the day Marv most definitely did much to Duhlan's consternation), but Boston  - ugh...just insufferable
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 17, 2021, 02:40:44 PM
9-4-3-1-1 for Elfrid

I expect this - Knicks up 21 - to still be a game. 

Kemba down, let's see if he is out
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 17, 2021, 02:42:01 PM
When was the last time we won while never trailing?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 17, 2021, 02:42:21 PM
Believe it or not, it was worse when Heinsohn was in on the action.

Celts playing like crapola.
Title: TV
Post by: carlos123 on January 17, 2021, 02:42:58 PM
Quote from: Jack Straw on January 17, 2021, 02:08:15 PM
in the annals of homer announcers, Boston has a special place, yeah I know most announcers are homers, though I do think Breen and Clyde play it pretty straight (and back in the day Marv most definitely did much to Duhlan's consternation), but Boston  - ugh...just insufferable

Jack, you can watch it on MSG.

BoZ, who's Beaujolais? Barrett? Boy, you make it difficult some times.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 17, 2021, 02:48:32 PM
Ojeleye
0-5 on 3's.
His last was just an airball.
Well, he had been shooting 42% on 3's this season ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 17, 2021, 02:58:05 PM
As for Kemba, BOS announcers had already been talking about the minutes restriction and thought that was his last stint for the game before he got injured.
So with that, plus the injury, plus the blowout, Kemba will not be back.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 17, 2021, 03:14:10 PM
So...

Elfrid Payton - starting PG and one of the 2-3 team leaders of the 2020-21 New York Knickerbockers - who stand at 6-8 after being picked to go 22-50 -

and this guy is getting knocked?

Please,
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 17, 2021, 03:26:35 PM
Pretty weak argument.

Quickly outplayed Elf by far this game (and a few others recently).
Real nice game from Quicks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 17, 2021, 03:27:38 PM
lol, Kid so stupid on cue......

Elfrid showed himself again to be a flaming mediocrity. At best.

We are so much better with IQ, after what, 7 pro games? Elfrid in his 7th year, defense still sagging on him like jail pants on a white supremacist loser.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 17, 2021, 03:40:10 PM
It will be Quickley‘s team shortly, If it isn’t already. That is how you should play for a coach on his birthday.

Elf had a really nice stretch in the 3rd quarter.

Celts are the underutilizing their Taco.

We look good when we get to practice. Best Obi game so far.

Pinson and Smith can go. There are palpably better players looking for jobs. 7-10 more games at most before we make some moves.

Sorry you had to see your guys look like that, Banks. Glad it was against the Knicks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 17, 2021, 03:40:58 PM
Any game in which both Quickley and Toppin look excellent is a great game.

This was one of those.

Team defense seemed super active too, though it doesn't hurt when the Celtics offer an almost Knick-like display of terrible 3-point shooting.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 17, 2021, 03:44:39 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 17, 2021, 03:26:35 PM
Pretty weak argument.

Quickly outplayed Elf by far this game (and a few others recently).
Real nice game from Quicks.

I am happy when they both play well

And they are

No need for a change, says Thibs - and says I.  But immature Knick ants around here have to quibble.

Staaaaaaart the rookie!

Yeah, because that is an NBA norm

Heh

6-8

Onward.
Title: Re: Boston
Post by: bankshot1 on January 17, 2021, 03:55:31 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 17, 2021, 01:42:36 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on January 17, 2021, 11:59:39 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 17, 2021, 01:03:28 AM
Hey Bank, tell your guys to take it easy on The Poor Knicks.

I mean, you will win, no need to give us a merciless beating, ok?

Carlos as a courtesy to you I put a call in to Brad and asked him to sit Tatum and play the kids, and he agreed but said Kemba might give it a shot.

No promises.

I got no idea what to expect.

Last time we chatted knicks were kicking ass,  what happened?

Thank you Bank. It was nice to win a quarter.

What happened? Knicks back to Earth.

And, all of what BoZ said.

Seems I missed a Knicks classic.

Carlos you owe me big!!!   :)

I'll have to read about the shit-show. Im watching Chiefs and Browns.

btw, I was in MSG on MLK Day 1987 (IIRC) when Louis Orr nailed a jumper at 0:00 a win another MLK Day classic from many moons ago.

Remember MLK's "I Had a Dream" speech, the part where he says, I dream of a time when little white boys play with little black boys-that's garbage time in the NBA blowouts.

To MLK, a very great man, taken from us way too soon.

Hope you guys enjoyed the game.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 17, 2021, 04:01:45 PM
To MLK, a very great man, taken from us way too soon.


Yes, like PAT TILLMAN.  But Pat doesn't have a "Day".
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 17, 2021, 04:13:46 PM
Pat got ignored in his warnings about right wing fascist warmongering hypocrites. Unfortunately, the republican party is still with us.

Pat Tillman is smiling from Heaven watching the GOP fall apart in operatic acts of self destruction stemming from republican racism and tendency toward the dumbest possible acts of violence.
Title: Re: Boston
Post by: carlos123 on January 17, 2021, 04:17:44 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on January 17, 2021, 03:55:31 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 17, 2021, 01:42:36 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on January 17, 2021, 11:59:39 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 17, 2021, 01:03:28 AM
Hey Bank, tell your guys to take it easy on The Poor Knicks.

I mean, you will win, no need to give us a merciless beating, ok?

Carlos as a courtesy to you I put a call in to Brad and asked him to sit Tatum and play the kids, and he agreed but said Kemba might give it a shot.

No promises.

I got no idea what to expect.

Last time we chatted knicks were kicking ass,  what happened?

Thank you Bank. It was nice to win a quarter.

What happened? Knicks back to Earth.

And, all of what BoZ said.

Seems I missed a Knicks classic.

Carlos you owe me big!!!   :)

I'll have to read about the shit-show. Im watching Chiefs and Browns.

btw, I was in MSG on MLK Day 1987 (IIRC) when Louis Orr nailed a jumper at 0:00 a win another MLK Day classic from many moons ago.

Remember MLK's "I Had a Dream" speech, the part where he says, I dream of a time when little white boys play with little black boys-that's garbage time in the NBA blowouts.

To MLK, a very great man, taken from us way too soon.

Hope you guys enjoyed the game.

Yes, Banks:

Quote from: bankshot1 on January 17, 2021, 11:59:39 AM
Carlos as a courtesy to you I put a call in to Brad and asked him to sit Tatum and play the kids, and he agreed but said Kemba might give it a shot.

I do owe you big.

Chamaco, you're so STOOPID it takes one's breath away. What does MLK have to do with Pat Tillman not having a "Day"?

Les, I forgot what was your IQ evaluation of Chamaco, but I think you need to review it downward, maybe 35 (and I'm being generous).
Title: Best estimate = to Trump's Approval rating (currently 29)
Post by: lesterluv on January 17, 2021, 04:33:43 PM
or maybe equal to Elfrid Payton's PER.... (falling fast and now below both Quickley and Franky's, of course.). Kid swore it was critical and promised to keep us updated daily, but you know how that goes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 17, 2021, 04:47:06 PM
Kid is posting newsmax links over in the trump forum, so whatever your best estimate of his IQ was subtract ten or divide by two, whichever gives you the lower number.
Title: Re: Boston
Post by: bankshot1 on January 17, 2021, 04:48:39 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 17, 2021, 04:17:44 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on January 17, 2021, 03:55:31 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 17, 2021, 01:42:36 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on January 17, 2021, 11:59:39 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 17, 2021, 01:03:28 AM
Hey Bank, tell your guys to take it easy on The Poor Knicks.

I mean, you will win, no need to give us a merciless beating, ok?

Carlos as a courtesy to you I put a call in to Brad and asked him to sit Tatum and play the kids, and he agreed but said Kemba might give it a shot.

No promises.

I got no idea what to expect.

Last time we chatted knicks were kicking ass,  what happened?

Thank you Bank. It was nice to win a quarter.

What happened? Knicks back to Earth.

And, all of what BoZ said.

Seems I missed a Knicks classic.

Carlos you owe me big!!!   :)

I'll have to read about the shit-show. Im watching Chiefs and Browns.

btw, I was in MSG on MLK Day 1987 (IIRC) when Louis Orr nailed a jumper at 0:00 a win another MLK Day classic from many moons ago.

Remember MLK's "I Had a Dream" speech, the part where he says, I dream of a time when little white boys play with little black boys-that's garbage time in the NBA blowouts.

To MLK, a very great man, taken from us way too soon.

Hope you guys enjoyed the game.

Yes, Banks:

Quote from: bankshot1 on January 17, 2021, 11:59:39 AM
Carlos as a courtesy to you I put a call in to Brad and asked him to sit Tatum and play the kids, and he agreed but said Kemba might give it a shot.

I do owe you big.

Chamaco, you're so STOOPID it takes one's breath away. What does MLK have to do with Pat Tillman not having a "Day"?

Les, I forgot what was your IQ evaluation of Chamaco, but I think you need to review it downward, maybe 35 (and I'm being generous).

Carlos-We should be kind it kid, he is after all Elba's village idiot.

He is limited,

As to IQ, kid's on a different scale.

When asked to spell IQ, has has trouble, even when spotted the "I".

Which is surprising given his fondness for "Q"
Title: Alan Hahn
Post by: chipstern on January 17, 2021, 05:34:33 PM
Interesting game.

Knicks gave Thibs the gift of defense for his birthday. 

Yes, Celtics without Tatum, but every team is dealing with injuries. 

Good to see IQ and Obi getting into good rhythm, post-rehab, and look how much more efficient RJ was only playing 29 minutes.  Julius with a +29, on 20-12-4 with three steals. 

Posted a dissent to all of the posters and Brother Alan Hahn himself on his FACEBOOK Post-Game Video Blog (I'm a big fan), with all of the inevitable TRADING RANDLE dissonance, which drives me crazy.  Man is playing like a leader, playing like a captain, and of course, Knicks fans once again never know a good thing when they have it, and snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, a comment Alan found odd.  "We didn't draft Obi to have him sit." 

I believe Thibs is figuring out ways to have them on the court together, when matchups permit, as awkward as that might be coming out of the gate.  Yes, yes, I know, BoD. 

Now, would I trade Randle straight up for Bradley Beal? 

Wiping a tear from my eye?  Uh, yes I would.  But it would have to be at the level of getting a star back for a star. 

In other agita.

Kiid an infantile, right-wing idiot?  STOP THE SCHPIEL.  You guys are welcome to him.  You guys are welcome to him.  I sleep better at night not being exposed to something so unclean. 

What else?

Speaking of assholes, Stephen A. Smith excoriating Knicks for passing on Haliburton. 

Well, the Bulls, Pistons, Knicks, Suns and Spurs all passed. 

Haliburton was my pick, but given that we ended up with Quicley AND Toppin, it eases the pain.

As for the whole Peyton starting thing? 

A non-issue.  I think there is much IQ can learn from Elfrid, particularly on the defensive end of things, and having taken several games to regain his rhythm, post-injury, IQ is again in tune and tempo.  Hahn speaks to his inevitability.  Of course.  But I have faith Thibs knows what he is doing, taking the pressure off of the kid, while spotting him significant minutes and building his confidence. 

Likewise with Obi, vis a vis his big brother Julius.  A good outing for Obi.  His high arching trey (like Knox's) is a thing of beauty, and loved that one play where IQ found him on a back cut for a master blaster. 

Again, regarding Julius AND Obi.  This is a GOOD PROBLEM to have.  And if we trade Julius, suddenly we are quite thin at PF, eh? 

Get a grip Knicks fans, crying hunger with a holiday ham and a couple of loafs of bread under each fucking arm. 

FINALLY: Impressive game from Noels, and all of the Knicks, whether or not the fruit was falling, responded well to getting a practice in, with terrific defensive focus and cohesion.  And what to make of RJ?  Stinks up the court with awful shooting, then comes back with solid shooting and all around game, 19-11-3 and two steals, 2-4 from trey and 7-8 from the FT line.  This young man has character and cajones and no reverse gear.  Sucks, then puts in the work and comes roaring back.  Again, doesn't hurt to play 29 instead of 42, 36.  Has a long way to go, and his successful threes are generally the shortest corner threes, but we have a foundational piece as a big 6'7" 2-3 wing. 

See if we have any gas in the tank for tomorrow. 

Happy MLK, and Bette White, Knicks fans. 

(https://images2.memedroid.com/images/UPLOADED4/50b3df7750614.jpeg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 17, 2021, 05:43:48 PM
"And what to make of RJ?"

Folks should be learning not to microanalyze every game
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 17, 2021, 05:45:28 PM
See if we have any gas in the tank for tomorrow.


heh
Title: Chamaco's IQ
Post by: carlos123 on January 17, 2021, 05:47:34 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 17, 2021, 04:47:06 PM
Kid is posting newsmax links over in the trump forum, so whatever your best estimate of his IQ was subtract ten or divide by two, whichever gives you the lower number.

Wow!, we have several possibilities here:

Les (a) = Trump's approval rating = 29.

Les (b) = Elfrid Payton's PER = 12.3 (and falling).

Fac = my estimate of 35/2 = 17.5 (lower number than subtracting 10).

Bank = Q, whatever that equivalent might be, but like you said, different scale.

I propose, utilize the conversion scale of Fahrenheit to Celsius, where IQ = C = ((F - 32)/2)*1.1 = 2 (rounding up).

PS. Chip, reading Chamaco in small doses is very entertaining and gives you a glimpse into the minds of an awful lot of people. You should try, even if it makes you feel unclean.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on January 17, 2021, 07:11:18 PM
WOW! another richly enjoyable game!  As long as Quick gets his minutes, it's fine if he doesn't start - gives him a chance to see floor before he hits the floor....   

Yup Chip -  Julius along with a Poppin' Obi  is a nice problem to have!

Thanks Carlos -but I am a little too far a field for MSG....

And Kiid - err,.... Chiild  -like the GOP, you will never hit bottom -  just keep going lower and lower, fuckin' moron
Title: Re: Chamaco's IQ
Post by: chipstern on January 17, 2021, 07:12:28 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 17, 2021, 05:47:34 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 17, 2021, 04:47:06 PM
Kid is posting newsmax links over in the trump forum, so whatever your best estimate of his IQ was subtract ten or divide by two, whichever gives you the lower number.

Wow!, we have several possibilities here:

Les (a) = Trump's approval rating = 29.

Les (b) = Elfrid Payton's PER = 12.3 (and falling).

Fac = my estimate of 35/2 = 17.5 (lower number than subtracting 10).

Bank = Q, whatever that equivalent might be, but like you said, different scale.

I propose, utilize the conversion scale of Fahrenheit to Celsius, where IQ = C = ((F - 32)/2)*1.1 = 2 (rounding up).

PS. Chip, reading Chamaco in small doses is very entertaining and gives you a glimpse into the minds of an awful lot of people. You should try, even if it makes you feel unclean.

Been there, done that. 

You and Faicil and Dawg and BoD have my proxy to enjoy the unparalled pleasure of the Day Line Cruise down the River Styx with our Resident Trumpian Dr. Evil.  The man is not a conservative voice...he is an alt-right wing wackamole Alex Jones provocateur who professes to have his finger on the pulse and non-aromatic feces. 

When I want to feel unclean, I do not access the Sinclair Network nor Fox News nor a QAnon Consipracy site nor the postings of Dr. Evil.  I tune into PornHub.  Life is too short.  Kiid craves attention.  He has enjoyed the last of mine. 
Title: OK
Post by: carlos123 on January 17, 2021, 07:19:12 PM
Ok, Chip, that's one way to look at it.

I still think Chamaco is much more "unclean" than any porn site.

True, he craves attention, but also, there are a lot of alt-right wing wackamoles. According the Les' stats, a full 29% of Americans.
Title: Julius Randle & Thibs
Post by: chipstern on January 17, 2021, 07:21:10 PM
Quote from: Jack Straw on January 17, 2021, 07:11:18 PM
WOW! another richly enjoyable game!  As long as Quick gets his minutes, it's fine if he doesn't start - gives him a chance to see floor before he hits the floor....   

Yup Chip -  Julius along with a Poppin' Obi  is a nice problem to have!

Thanks Carlos -but I am a little too far a field for MSG....

And Kiid - err,.... Chiild  -like the GOP, you will never hit bottom -  just keep going lower and lower, fuckin' moron

Julius has earned Thibs' admiration and respect. 

He deserves that of Knicks fans.  He is playing at an all-star level, and all of this trade speculation really galls me.  When I said SNATCHING DEFEAT FROM THE JAWS OF VICTORY to Hahn, he seemed to think it was kind of goofy, but to me, given our history of dumbass trades, we finally got something positive out of free agency, and we're thinking about trades and draft choices?  Fuck me?  No, FUCK YOU. 

Julius is only 26.  Bradley Beal is only 27.  I would hate to lose Julius, and I think it stinks the lack of loyalty Knicks fans have to someone who steps up and pays the price to be a Knick, but Beal is a super star. 

But I don't think that is happenning, and short of a player of that stature, we lost Porzingis and now have Randle AND Toppin, and Julius is playing like someone WHO WANTS TO BE A FUCKING KNICK.

Grow up Knicks fans. 
Title: NOT o-Kay
Post by: chipstern on January 17, 2021, 07:33:58 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 17, 2021, 07:19:12 PM
Ok, Chip, that's one way to look at it.

I still think Chamaco is much more "unclean" than any porn site.

True, he craves attention, but also, there are a lot of alt-right wing wackamoles. According the Les' stats, a full 29% of Americans.

Brother Carlos, we have had four years of wackamoles, culminating with the Insurrectionist STOP THE STEAL Sedition, stop the steal being dog whistle talk for DISENFRANCHISE ALL N_____S. 

I have had ENOUGH.  We are approaching our total combat deaths from WWII in COVID fatalities, the economy is in tatters, and the President is consulting with ex-coke head, the MyPillowGuy. 

There is a reason Trump was tossed off all of the social media platforms.  He lives to foment SHIT. 

We cannot ban Kiid, nor do I particularly want to. 

But he is a psychic cankersore, and I do not require further proof.  He has sundered his Chip privleges, though I wager he finds that amusing.  Good for him.  But Kiid LIVES to get reactions off of people, whether through reasoned hoops acuity or SHEER STUPIDITY/CUPIDITY/CRULETY. 

(https://static.timesofisrael.com/www/uploads/2021/01/rioter.jpg)

In lieu of leaving him to Jesus, you are welome to him.  I AM NOT AMUSED. 

(https://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/bc13c6d01d68c94338febcce41833628?width=650)
Title: Yes, ok
Post by: carlos123 on January 17, 2021, 08:10:46 PM
Ok Chip, you convinced me.

Chamaco, what do you have to say to that? Would you like to ignored by all?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 17, 2021, 08:12:27 PM
Quote from: Jack Straw on January 17, 2021, 07:11:18 PM
WOW! another richly enjoyable game!  As long as Quick gets his minutes, it's fine if he doesn't start - gives him a chance to see floor before he hits the floor....   

Yup Chip -  Julius along with a Poppin' Obi  is a nice problem to have!

Thanks Carlos -but I am a little too far a field for MSG....

And Kiid - err,.... Chiild  -like the GOP, you will never hit bottom -  just keep going lower and lower, fuckin' moron

Who are you?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 17, 2021, 08:16:01 PM
As long as Quick gets his minutes, it's fine if he doesn't start - gives him a chance to see floor before he hits the floor....   


Seems we agree

Dont run with the masses.  Plenty to discuss if you have even a hint of a hard shell.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 17, 2021, 08:48:00 PM
Since the first time I saw ZION Williamson I likened his game to Randle's.

Now, last year that didnt turn out so well as a projection - but the difference was born of shooting percentage disparity - Julius down at 46 and 27

But this year

a)  ZION hasnt shot 3s at all while Randle has improved to where it is an excellent bet every time he releases
b)  Julius is up over 50%, to Zion's 55
c)  FT% is not close, the vet way ahead as expected.

There is also the health factor - Randle answering the bell for us and becoming a leader in more ways than just statline

We have ourselves a bona fide All Star - lets enjoy it - and remember - our roster can improve through simple WORK and MATURITY as much as through the better lenses and tactics of the coaching staff.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 17, 2021, 09:24:38 PM
Quote from: Jack Straw on January 17, 2021, 07:11:18 PM
WOW! another richly enjoyable game!  As long as Quick gets his minutes, it's fine if he doesn't start - gives him a chance to see floor before he hits the floor....   

This is definitely a good approach until he’s been through most of the league at least once.

Quote
Yup Chip -  Julius along with a Poppin' Obi  is a nice problem to have!

Very true. We’re gonna need to extend Julius at our earliest opportunity.

Quote
Thanks Carlos -but I am a little too far a field for MSG....

And Kiid - err,.... Chiild  -like the GOP, you will never hit bottom -  just keep going lower and lower, fuckin' moron

Kid is still dreaming that Rand Paul will one day act as his personal proctologist. I don’t really see the Senator going back to school just for that. With Kid however, hope springs eternal in little jackboots.
Title: Jack
Post by: carlos123 on January 17, 2021, 09:37:15 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 17, 2021, 08:12:27 PM
Quote from: Jack Straw on January 17, 2021, 07:11:18 PM
WOW! another richly enjoyable game!  As long as Quick gets his minutes, it's fine if he doesn't start - gives him a chance to see floor before he hits the floor....   

Yup Chip -  Julius along with a Poppin' Obi  is a nice problem to have!

Thanks Carlos -but I am a little too far a field for MSG....

And Kiid - err,.... Chiild  -like the GOP, you will never hit bottom -  just keep going lower and lower, fuckin' moron

Who are you?

He's obviously someone who knows you very well.

A voice of reason telling you what you truly are.

I suggest that you pay attention.

You're welcome!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 17, 2021, 11:12:26 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 17, 2021, 09:37:15 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 17, 2021, 08:12:27 PM
Quote from: Jack Straw on January 17, 2021, 07:11:18 PM
WOW! another richly enjoyable game!  As long as Quick gets his minutes, it's fine if he doesn't start - gives him a chance to see floor before he hits the floor....   

Yup Chip -  Julius along with a Poppin' Obi  is a nice problem to have!

Thanks Carlos -but I am a little too far a field for MSG....

And Kiid - err,.... Chiild  -like the GOP, you will never hit bottom -  just keep going lower and lower, fuckin' moron

Who are you?

He's obviously someone who knows you very well.


Jack Straw from Wichita
cut ol' kid carter down

Dug for him a shallow grave
and laid his body down

Half a mile from Boston
By the morning light

One game gone and another to go
Remember start time is noon ... tomorrowwwwww
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 17, 2021, 11:26:16 PM
Science over Magic!
Title: Fresh Day! Fresh Morning!
Post by: lesterluv on January 18, 2021, 10:28:51 AM
Kid's alarm clock goes off.

label: Time to Suck Wrinkled Orange Sack

hits snooze.

Kid's alarm clock goes off.

label: time to post tired wrong shit

hits snooze again

Kid's alarm clock goes off.

label: REMINDER —DO NOT POST ELF/FRANKY/DJ/QUICKLEY PER!!!

GAME TIME 12 PEOPLES, DON'T BE LATE........
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 18, 2021, 11:27:42 AM
Yesterday's game seemed so promising — I'm really buoyed by the possibility that the Knicks actually did well in the draft and they are finally coming along.

Would just love this feeling to last, say, another afternoon.

As for Julius, he's terrific, extremely difficult to guard, and the better the supporting cast, the more some of his defects (trying to do too much) will fall away.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 18, 2021, 01:14:34 PM
As for Julius, he's terrific, extremely difficult to guard, and the better the supporting cast, the more some of his defects (trying to do too much) will fall away.


Well said - true of all players.

The great James Harden didnt feel his cast would bring enough prosperity (not that JH would admit that HE might force things due to it) with his current cast - and forced a deal.

Randle isnt a superstar so he plays with who they tell him to - and has prospered as the staff and roster improves, benefitted also by his own off court work on his body/game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 18, 2021, 01:19:48 PM
Including this first half, R J Barrett is shooting 50% his last 4 games

And is also 20-22 from the line
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 18, 2021, 01:22:05 PM
Have to watch Vucevic but also beware TERRANCE ROSS getting hot from three
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 18, 2021, 01:41:48 PM
Payton left to right crossover - an uncommon move for a righthanded player - paying big dividends

Broke Jaylen's ankle in the BOS game.  And now uses same move and finishes with the monster slam.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 18, 2021, 02:02:25 PM
Probably a poor decision for Knicks to meet up for an early intense shootaround

33%
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 18, 2021, 02:27:17 PM
Will the reporter ask Thibs today when Quickley might start?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 18, 2021, 02:33:34 PM
Pretty ugly game.
Knix gave ORL a chance to win.

Not easy to win when you shoot 5-27 from 3, but Knix managed it.
Good to get a W before going out West.

Can't say I like one player on ORL.
Vuc is good.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 18, 2021, 02:48:08 PM
Gordon is pretty good too. Luckily they played Anthony way more than Bone.

Good ugly win.

Double ice baths for everyone!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 18, 2021, 02:53:37 PM
Gordon makes bad decisions.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 18, 2021, 03:14:41 PM
Winning both ends of a back-to-back for the first time in three years. 

Also 2 straight holding the opponent under 85.

Now that's how you end a losing streak.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 18, 2021, 03:17:38 PM
Gordon is being asked to do too much at the moment.

Good we get a moment before the road trip starts.
Title: COVID & CHAMACO
Post by: carlos123 on January 19, 2021, 12:29:21 AM
“- COVID - Gross incompetence at the governor level -“, Chamaco Cartero.
“- CHAMACO- Gross incompetence at the brain level-“, me.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 19, 2021, 12:30:51 PM
GSW outscored LAL by 13 in the 4Q to win by 2.
LeBJ had a pretty bad 4Q.  Got called for travelling twice. About 1:30 left down by 4 LeBJ's 3 missed the rim and slammed the backboard (but AD rebounded and dunked).
Then down 2 with 13 secs left, LeBJ passed to Shroder who was blanketed, nearly turns it over.  Bron didn't get that play organized.  Lakes call timeout with 1.7 secs left.  LeBJ misses a 3 at the buzzer.

Wiggins had a good shooting game, but under 3 mins left and trying to comeback Wiggy got fouled on a drive and missed both FT's.  Wiseman had a rough game, 5 turnovers and 5 fouls in 18 minutes.

Paschall scored 8 points in the early part of the 4Q to keep GS within 10.
Wanamaker made two nice buckets.

I was thinking Uber was real quiet, but then under 2 mins down 4 he guarded the inbounds and forced Schroder into a turnover, then Uber had a nice driving layup.
He was also guarding LeBJ part of the 4Q.  Lakes were playing off Uber in the corner alot.  He's had a real rough start to the season, but has picked up the last 3 games.

Knix play GSW soon.  It'll be 2nd game a B2B for the Warriors, but I'm sure they'll come out to play.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 19, 2021, 01:11:05 PM
Thanks for the report

Always rooting for the role players (Paschall, Wanamaker) to chip in nicely.

I had said Boston might miss Brad, who I had championed when he came from overseas.  Not so far - even giving rookie minutes to Pritchard on par with the vet pickup Teague.  But we'll see.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 19, 2021, 01:25:59 PM
As for Wiggins, he is fitting in with Warriors as I had imagined.

Basically 20-5-3 per 36 minutes, though his analytics arent wonderful.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 19, 2021, 01:30:22 PM
Meanwhile...

James Harden, Nets (2-0)

32-14-12
34-12-6

But not sure he can play with those guys
Title: Random Thoughts
Post by: chipstern on January 19, 2021, 04:30:56 PM
* Why exactly did the Pistons not re-up Christian Wood?  Anyone? 

* Kyrie Irving bought a new home for George Floyd's family. 

* RJ Barrett has his ups and downs, but he has no rear gear.  Always moving forward.  Impressive. 

* Coach Thibs, given his rep for being so tough and demanding, he is a very thoughtful and nurturing person.  Notable during our losing streak, how he didn't hit the panic button, nor throw any of his players under the bus, but without sugar coating shit, put a positve spin on things, supported his players in their evolutionary process, and motivated them to keep grinding, as with RJ, and his faith that the shots WILL COME, and with everyone that no matter whether or not the fruit is falling, WHEN YOU HAVE A GOOD OPEN SHOT, TAKE IT.  Likewise, when most Knicks fans saw Julius Randle only as a trade piece, Thibs saw him as an impact player and a leader, and built his confidence through the roof.  And Elfrid?  Even Bernie Sanders wants him coming off the bench, but Thibs keeps faith with him, and his play on both ends, has been getting better and better, his shitty 3 point shooting notwithstanding.  Mitch?  He lit a fire in his ass, suggested he needed to see him put in the work, and Mitch responded.  And RJ.  KEPT FAITH, KEPT FAITH....RJ responding with two of his best games as a Knick against the Celtics and Magic. 

* PS: RJ is what, 20-22 in FT shooting over the last few games.  IMfuckingPRESSIVE for the third player in a two man draft. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 19, 2021, 04:45:28 PM
The Pistons didn’t understand that Blake was a sunk cost and spared us the joy of facing a Wood Seku Grant front court for a several year stretch. Thanks Pistons!

When you live on a flat earth, you got to take time to do right when there is all kinds of evil around or things get out of balance and all kinds of shit starts sliding off.

RJ is still less than 80 games into his career. He’s still got a lot of tricks to pick up.

It’s nice to have a professional organization behind the fellows rocking the Knicks jerseys again.

The decades of soap opera were getting old.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 19, 2021, 05:43:05 PM
Raps waive Len.

Release DSJ and grab Len off waivers if he makes it that far. One year deal at close to minimum.

Very little use this year and last. At least he’d be a reasonably big body for Mitch to work against.

Between Mitch & Noel he’d definitely give us another look.

Mitch Noel Len
Randle Obi Gibson
RJ Knox Bullock Iggy
Burks Frank Rivers
Payton IQ

We still have 45+ games of Harper in our back pocket.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 19, 2021, 05:57:06 PM
Re:. Wood Seku Grant

I think Jerami got some of Wood's $

Also think Wood wanted to leave
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 19, 2021, 06:23:06 PM
Stretch Blake, tell Wood he’s the guy and pay him, and things might go differently. It’s under the bridge now.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 19, 2021, 06:38:30 PM
So...

with Bradley Beal now the NBA's biggest trade target and with the Knicks possessing extra picks - are we ready to muster an offer?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 19, 2021, 06:52:48 PM
Fuck no. Why turn Beal into Melo? That is so embarrassing for all parties except the Wiz.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 19, 2021, 06:57:47 PM
yep, big NO.
If Jrue was worth 5 pick and swaps, Harden 8, Beal has to be good for 6/7. Thanks, NO THANKS!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 19, 2021, 07:06:52 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 19, 2021, 06:52:48 PM
Fuck no. Why turn Beal into Melo? That is so embarrassing for all parties except the Wiz.

Heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 19, 2021, 07:07:44 PM
I kind of liked being 54-28.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 19, 2021, 07:36:30 PM
lmao...no Beal team has even hit 50...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 19, 2021, 07:44:08 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 19, 2021, 06:52:48 PM
Fuck no. Why turn Beal into Melo? That is so embarrassing for all parties except the Wiz.

Beal is 27 and makes reasonable money the next 2.5 years. 

If the price is right it would be foolish to pass on him.

We have a young team pointing up with young players to develop and draft picks to spare.

Will any of those draft picks become a Bradley Beal?

Again.. the price has to be right.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 19, 2021, 08:16:44 PM
i already told you the damn price!

No, Steve Mills did not get hired as Wiz GM

*** folks acting like we're gonna get Bradley Beal for Dennis Smith Jr. and three Giuliani poots. The cost is 6-7 picks & swaps plus at least one real live genuine player at least 60% as good as Beal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 19, 2021, 08:19:50 PM
Release DSJ and grab Len off waivers if he makes it that far. One year deal at close to minimum.


Nope.  Added Gibson.  Press already all over Thibs on when Taj is going to get run
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 19, 2021, 08:42:27 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 19, 2021, 05:57:06 PM
Re:. Wood Seku Grant

I think Jerami got some of Wood's $

Also think Wood wanted to leave

Reminded - (had to look it up) - Pistons got Isiah Stewart - and also DeLon Wright - (flipping Ariza for him) in the Wood sign and trade.

Had to give up a future 1 but its heavily protected

(Stewart was the 16th pick, I think - dang they could have had IQ - heh)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 20, 2021, 12:32:21 AM
I think C. Wood wanted to get a nice payday.
DET did salvage something by making it a signandtrade.
But Pistoffs wound up paying a bunch more for Jer Grant, who is an equivalent player.  Odd.

IQ might prove to be a better player than #7 pick Killer Hayes.

Pritchard looked outmatched in the NYK game.  Though a bad game for all of BOS.  Pritch kept looking around for someone to screen or something to do.  But with the ball or defending he didn't look good.  That's all I've seen of him so far.

I liked Wanamaker for BOS last year.  Thought it a real good GS pickup.  The guy is gritty and makes plays.  Speaking of gritty and making plays, check out Bruce Brown for BKY.  I think he forced a pair 4Q jump balls v. MIL (or maybe the one he just ripped away cleanly from a Buck, I forget).  Scrappy hustle stuff.

I hadn't really seen Paschall before.  A partial game or two I saw GSW last year he was quiet/okay when I tuned in.  But he really was beasting Lakes down low on the boards and at the rim.  One play he got the ball for a corner 3, attacked the close out and hit a layup among bodies.  8 points in the first 4:30 of the 4Q was most welcome for the GSW helping them hang in.  His energy and physicality isn't easy to handle.  Quality backup. 

Burly guy, listed as 6'6" 250.  Had a very solid rook year as a #41 pick, on an injury ravaged GSW team.  But I wasn't sure if it was just good numbers on a bad team.  This year his shooting %'s are up across the board in 20 mins per.  53% FG; 38% on 3's in limited attempts and 81% FT.  Looks like a solid, bullying bench player.  Had a string of 8 straight games in double figures (and now 9 of 10), which is impressive in just 20 mins a night.  GSW doesn't get that LAL W without Paschall's 19 in 19 minutes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 20, 2021, 05:40:33 AM
Nice that RJB is making his FT's.

DeAndre Hunter Watch: 50% / 40% / 86% shooting splits.
And plays good defense.  17 / 6 / 2 on the year.
Has been ATL's most consistent and probably best player so far this year.

Knix close to an average FT shooting team this year.
Though Mitch is down to 44%; Nawlins 56%, Elf 68%, Rivers 50%, Franc 33%.
Quickly has been excellent at 96%.  DFraws a lot of fouls, but mostly of the before the shot variety
Really only Randle and RJB get to the line. So there 76% shooting is largely the team's average (74%).
Title: PALINDROME 1-20-21 [American Carnage]
Post by: chipstern on January 20, 2021, 07:44:33 AM
12021 > 1 20 21

BackwardsForwards UpsideDown
A Palindrome To Celebrate
As The Wicked Witch Leaves Town

(https://latinostudies.duke.edu/sites/latinostudies.duke.edu/files/a_media_items/trump-william-nericcio.440.680.s.png)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 20, 2021, 10:01:33 AM
Early, yes - but Quickley standing out among FT% leaders

JJ Redick has not missed (22 of 22)

Karl Anthony Towns, Chris Paul and Immanuel Quickley have each missed just one free throw

Jalen Brunson and Jimmy Butler - 2 each

(minimum 20 made)

The ten WORST list has some big names

In order

Rudy Gobert
Steven Adams
Precious Achiuwa
Andre Drummond
Giannis Antetekompo
Marvin Bagley III
Aaaron Gordon
Ben Simmons
Zion Williamson
Russell Westbrook

(Russ at .657, Rudy .467)

Julius and RJ at 74 and 84 respectively among 117 qualifiers
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 20, 2021, 10:41:46 AM
By the way, leaders listed must be on pace for 125 made - in a regular year.  Not sure if this will be shortened with the 72 game season

This is why Payton and others are not listed and there are only 117 qualifiers
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 20, 2021, 11:07:06 AM
Watching everybody show up at the inaug — masked, spaced, so easy, so simple — really puts into stark relief Trump's criminal failure. With minimal competency an easy 250,000 additional Americans would still be alive...  ..well, BETTER LATE THAN NEVER for leadership in a pandemic!


*** and gotta give a shout to Cuomo & de Blasio, despite their sniping & backbiting & faux pas, the message, leadership, and health resources for NYS and NYC folks has largely been on point, and saved a ton of lives here.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 20, 2021, 01:09:41 PM
http://theknickswall.com/coaching-matters-look-2020-21-knicks-under-tom-thibodeau/ (http://theknickswall.com/coaching-matters-look-2020-21-knicks-under-tom-thibodeau/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 20, 2021, 01:21:58 PM
I think C. Wood wanted to get a nice payday.


Sure

And not sure he saw himself being a huge part of what Pistons were doing.

DET also had a new GM.

I think they are positioned pretty well to make some more deals - while losing this year helps them get the pick we thought we might.  (Knicks now not looking good for a Cade Cunningham type)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 20, 2021, 02:15:20 PM
http://www.theringer.com/nba/2021/1/20/22240439/lonzo-ball-pelicans-time-running-out (http://www.theringer.com/nba/2021/1/20/22240439/lonzo-ball-pelicans-time-running-out)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 20, 2021, 03:37:02 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 20, 2021, 02:15:20 PM
http://www.theringer.com/nba/2021/1/20/22240439/lonzo-ball-pelicans-time-running-out (http://www.theringer.com/nba/2021/1/20/22240439/lonzo-ball-pelicans-time-running-out)

THE most bizarre aspect of Ball's game, is the paucity of free throws. 

Last season he averaged 32.1 minutes a game over 63 games.  That's 2025 minutes. 

LB was 43-76 over the course of the entire season.  That's 1.2 FTA per game. 

By contrast, on the other end of the evolutionary spectrum, Damian Lillard in 2474 minutes, went to the FT line 518 times and drained 460.  That's 7.8 FTA per Game. 

By contrast, our own puppy, IQ, in 11 games, as taken 24 FTs and drained 23.  This season, in 10 games, LB is 7-12. 

LB has great size and court vision, and is a solid defender.  But 'ya think that teams might lay off of him and dare him to drain his threes, secure in the knoweldge that he will not play downhill and attack the rack? 

Somehow, I do not believe Lonzo will be a FA target for the Knicks. 



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 20, 2021, 04:04:49 PM
Exquisite playmeaker that is not a guy looking to score while guarded - gets the ball to others.

And thus not so many free throws.

But the game is changing as well - and he is off the ball a lot.  Weird.  Not sure its best for NOP.  But is what it is.

As for Knicks interest - seems like he might be Charlotte bound - if he wants to be with Bro.  Surely Brentwood Mitch will put forth the effort to pair the duo.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 20, 2021, 04:05:38 PM
Ball also wont take that step to stardom unless he can stay healthier.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 20, 2021, 04:24:41 PM
Kupchek can works something out with Atlanta to put the whole Chino Hills squad back together. Lilo is available in some GLeague program, I think. The whole thing could be cheaper than signing Gordy and lead to just as many wins.

Still, if it put Rozier on the market cheap, I’m all for it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 20, 2021, 07:26:49 PM
Kyrie back.
Nets open game 10 for 10 from field.
Every bucket a highlight.
Need some work on defense, but....OOF

** then they miss next ten..lol
*** WE Got BurkS and maybe Frankie coming back tomorrow.....BRING THE SHOOTERS!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Hamilton Samuels on January 20, 2021, 07:56:11 PM
 Your NBA : https://news.yahoo.com/former-nba-player-turned-conspiracy-theorist-stages-oneman-pro-trump-protest-amid-inaugural-security-prepared-for-thousands-183053944.html (https://news.yahoo.com/former-nba-player-turned-conspiracy-theorist-stages-oneman-pro-trump-protest-amid-inaugural-security-prepared-for-thousands-183053944.html)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 20, 2021, 08:01:14 PM
Quote from: UNO on January 20, 2021, 07:56:11 PM
Your NBA : https://news.yahoo.com/former-nba-player-turned-conspiracy-theorist-stages-oneman-pro-trump-protest-amid-inaugural-security-prepared-for-thousands-183053944.html (https://news.yahoo.com/former-nba-player-turned-conspiracy-theorist-stages-oneman-pro-trump-protest-amid-inaugural-security-prepared-for-thousands-183053944.html)

Not really.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 20, 2021, 08:59:59 PM
Still, if it put Rozier on the market cheap, I’m all for it.


I'm out on Rozier for now.  Beal first.

Good piece on Hornets and the effect Ball has had

https://www.si.com/nba/2021/01/20/lamelo-ball-hornets-passing

The frontman for this approach is rookie point guard LaMelo Ball, a 19-year-old warlock with endless peripheral vision and an unshakable desire to set up teammates in the most spontaneous, entertaining, experimental ways. Only 24 rookies in NBA history have recorded an assist rate above 35%. After 14 games, Ball is at 38.3, 0.1 higher than where Chris Paul finished when he won Rookie of the Year, and over 10 points more than anyone else on the Hornets. It’s extraordinary stuff, even more so after realizing Charlotte currently ranks 21st in effective field goal percentage.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on January 20, 2021, 09:58:24 PM
Brad should piss away 25k tonight.

Title: For now
Post by: Kam on January 20, 2021, 10:10:47 PM
The Mavs are a lottery team and the Knicks aren't
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 20, 2021, 10:13:17 PM
Mavs didn’t look like a lottery team tonight.  It kinda bummed me out.
Title: Re: For now
Post by: carlos123 on January 20, 2021, 10:13:54 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 20, 2021, 10:10:47 PM
The Mavs are a lottery team and the Knicks aren't

Sure.

They beat the Pacers tonight with 27 PTS, 13 REB, 4 AST from your fave KP.
Title: Mavs
Post by: carlos123 on January 20, 2021, 10:16:13 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 20, 2021, 10:13:17 PM
Mavs didn’t look like a lottery team tonight.  It kinda bummed me out.

They were waiting for Timmy and his 19 PTS to come back.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 20, 2021, 10:18:18 PM
Quote from: UNO on January 20, 2021, 07:56:11 PM
Your NBA : https://news.yahoo.com/former-nba-player-turned-conspiracy-theorist-stages-oneman-pro-trump-protest-amid-inaugural-security-prepared-for-thousands-183053944.html (https://news.yahoo.com/former-nba-player-turned-conspiracy-theorist-stages-oneman-pro-trump-protest-amid-inaugural-security-prepared-for-thousands-183053944.html)

"The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself." - Benjamin Franklin

Dude, you might want to work on that signature quote.

There are more fake quotes on the web than stars in the sky. And for some reason, poor Franklin gets credited for all kinds of pap. As Gandhi once said, "Bitches ain't shit but hoes and tricks."
Title: Fake quotes
Post by: carlos123 on January 20, 2021, 10:26:15 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 20, 2021, 10:18:18 PM

There are more fake quotes on the web than stars in the sky. And for some reason, poor Franklin gets credited for all kinds of pap. As Gandhi once said, "Bitches ain't shit but hoes and tricks."

Tha's why I use Chamaco as my source of inspiration.
Title: Re: For now
Post by: Kam on January 20, 2021, 10:35:23 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 20, 2021, 10:13:54 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 20, 2021, 10:10:47 PM
The Mavs are a lottery team and the Knicks aren't

Sure.

They beat the Pacers tonight with 27 PTS, 13 REB, 4 AST from your fave KP.

And yet as of the moment still a lottery team.
Title: Re: For now
Post by: carlos123 on January 20, 2021, 10:59:49 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 20, 2021, 10:35:23 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 20, 2021, 10:13:54 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 20, 2021, 10:10:47 PM
The Mavs are a lottery team and the Knicks aren't

Sure.

They beat the Pacers tonight with 27 PTS, 13 REB, 4 AST from your fave KP.

And yet as of the moment still a lottery team.

True.

Timmy will be their savior 😉
Title: Re: For now
Post by: Kam on January 21, 2021, 02:30:18 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 20, 2021, 10:59:49 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 20, 2021, 10:35:23 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 20, 2021, 10:13:54 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 20, 2021, 10:10:47 PM
The Mavs are a lottery team and the Knicks aren't

Sure.

They beat the Pacers tonight with 27 PTS, 13 REB, 4 AST from your fave KP.

And yet as of the moment still a lottery team.

True.

Timmy will be their savior 😉

Yeah still early.  Still 80% of the games to play.  But the West is tough.
Title: Re: For now
Post by: bodiddley on January 21, 2021, 07:17:14 AM
Quote from: Kam on January 21, 2021, 02:30:18 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 20, 2021, 10:59:49 PM
Timmy will be their savior 😉

Yeah still early.  Still 80% of the games to play.  But the West is tough.

I've watched DAL a few times already.  And I'd say that Tim Jr is really a key guy for them.  Yeah, Josh Rich and Funky-Smith have missed games, but Tim can knock down shots and score better than either of those two.   And DAL needs that extra scoring punch (Seth Curry isn't there anymore).

I don't think Mavs have played one game with their full rotation.
(Knix have started the same lineup in I think all but one game).
Be interesting to see when they are healthy and how they gel.

Good to see KZ have a big night 27 / 13 / 4 in 32 mins.
I saw a couple games back with Luka out and KZ's defense was there, but he was moving a bit gingerly and just didn't have the right flow.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 21, 2021, 07:26:23 AM
Kyrie, Durant and Harden all played around 50 mins in a 2OT loss to the iffy Cavs.
Sure, it was G1, but Nets were down 13 to a poor team in the 4Q.
And with KI at Point and slowish DeAndretheGiant at C, and Harden maybe spacing out, Nets D is gonna be rather Manolete. 
And without Jar Allen, KD is going to have to play a good deal of C.
It's going to be interesting to watch, expect significant Ups and downs, but it's all about the playoffs.  I was sure KI & KD would fail.  I'll still call failure (2nd round crashout) with Harden.  But depends on the matchup.  Only PHI really has a dominant Big and they don't have a quick scoring PG who can torch Kyrie.
The East isn't that formidable.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 21, 2021, 09:19:51 AM
Rockets fun to watch - and will be moreso with Wall

Young guys Nwaba and Tate add grit.  I figured Gordon would be unleashed a little aftyer the changes. 

Oladipo wearing 7 - reminding of 2 guys - Dee Brown and Dean the Dream.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 21, 2021, 10:18:17 AM
Interesting conversation this morning re Nets and minutes

Sounds like Nash didn't realize the minutes were so high (just about 7 minutes for their 9th man)

Nash says the second unit was a mess but reality is they only went from down 5 to down 9.

Read: Rookie coach panicked

(Nash justifies it by saying Nets had game won had CLE missed a shot late first OT)

Bears watching as season progresses.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 21, 2021, 10:19:00 AM
My take?

You got the Big 3 - use it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 21, 2021, 10:30:29 AM
Rough shooting start for the unflappable Cole Anthony.  Nice that he got to enjoy this moment

https://www.nba.com/news/horry-scale-cole-anthony-beats-buzzer-timberwolves-from-deep
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 21, 2021, 10:52:09 AM
Jar Allen and Prince Taureen wanted to let their old team know they were players.
Combined for 29.  Dot chipped in another bench 15 points.  All that starting probably helped Dotson sharpen his game.

Last 3 possessions for BKY in a tie game in Regulation:
- Harden dribblesdribblesdribblesdribbles then surprisingly passes to a cutting JoeHarris, who gets it up near the rim, but Kyrie sneaks baseline and gets the rebound and putback layup.  Odd play, good Kyrie hustle.
[Nance misses a 3]
- Harden gets the ball and dribblesdribblesdribblesdribbles and clanks a step-back 3 off the side of the rim v the lengthy Nance Jr.
[Sexton drives and just coughs up the ball for no reason]
-Kyrie with 5 secs left drives right and elbows Sexton in the chops, loses the ball gets called for an O-foul.  Call surprisingly reversed on review.  Jump ball with 1.5 secs left.

Takeaways:
Lotta Harden dribbling.  The hot KD didn't touch the ball.
Kyrie finally played a game in CLE.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 21, 2021, 11:36:25 AM
Nets offense described as the other 2 guys just running around trying not to get in the way

Joe Harris 2-10 and with what was described as "poor looks".

Shamet a DNP.  NBA Radio guys incredulous.  May not realize Bruce Brown has outplayed him.

Will Perry and Claxton get run or is KD at "backup 5" the plan moving forward?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 21, 2021, 12:23:38 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 21, 2021, 10:52:09 AM
Jar Allen and Prince Taureen wanted to let their old team know they were players.
Combined for 29.  Dot chipped in another bench 15 points.  All that starting probably helped Dotson sharpen his game.

Last 3 possessions for BKY in a tie game in Regulation:
- Harden dribblesdribblesdribblesdribbles then surprisingly passes to a cutting JoeHarris, who gets it up near the rim, but Kyrie sneaks baseline and gets the rebound and putback layup.  Odd play, good Kyrie hustle.
[Nance misses a 3]
- Harden gets the ball and dribblesdribblesdribblesdribbles and clanks a step-back 3 off the side of the rim v the lengthy Nance Jr.
[Sexton drives and just coughs up the ball for no reason]
-Kyrie with 5 secs left drives right and elbows Sexton in the chops, loses the ball gets called for an O-foul.  Call surprisingly reversed on review.  Jump ball with 1.5 secs left.

Takeaways:
Lotta Harden dribbling.  The hot KD didn't touch the ball.
Kyrie finally played a game in CLE.

Sexton was a man on a mission. 

Happy for Dot.  Played great. 

Okoro a better shooter than you would allow.

Ossman is fucking lights out.  What a stroke. 

PS: Watching highlights of GS/Lakers, and it would appear that Paschal is what the Knicks were hoping his college team mate Spellman would be. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 21, 2021, 12:45:43 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 21, 2021, 10:19:00 AM
My take?
You got the Big 3 - use it.

Well, Harden isn't in good condition yet.
And it was Kyrie's 1st game back.

But Nash was hoping to get a W pushing those guys to around 40 mins each.
Couldn't anticipate OT and then 2OT.
Nets announcers were talking about how the Big 3 looked tired starting 2nd OT.
_____________________________________________________
Sexton went nuts late.  The funny thing is I think he hit two 3's, missed a pair of FT"s and then hit two more 3's.
And I'll give Kyrie some credit, his D was fine on most of those. 
And in the 1OT, Kyrie stripped Osman and blocked a short Sexton paint shot (but Sexton caught the block and kicked out for a Nance 3).

___________________________________________________________

Quote
Okoro a better shooter than you would allow.

Only saw the 4Q and both OT's.  So didn't see Okoro's 3's.
But in the 4Q Okoro got a pass, Karden closed out and Okoro traveled trying to drive.
In OT, Okoro got a pass in the corner, attacked the closeout and didn't have any floater or midrange so kicked out to
th 3 point line for no advantage.  Both times a shooter would have likely taken the 3.   It's good to see him attack, but both of those didn't work out.
Fouled out in 2OT.

Okoro is a tough defender.  He seemed to enjoy covering Harden.  One play in either very late 4Q or more likely OT,
Nets set a screen for Harden, Okoro shoved the rolling Harris out of the way and went back to Harden.  He just wasn't willing to switch off Harden.
I don't think he's as good a shooter as you do: 40 / 33 / 62%

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 21, 2021, 12:47:05 PM
Onyeke Okongwu is back for Hawks

Combines with Capela for 29-32-8

(ok, so Clint had 27-26-5 of that)

Solid OT win for Hawks as they stay a smidge ahead of NY at 7-7
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 22, 2021, 12:06:12 AM
Well, I missed 1Q.
And my connection has been decidedly choppy 2Q & 3Q.

Knix catch a break with Dray getting ejected.  GS announcers claim Dray was cursing Wiseman for a blown
assignment and the ref thought it was directed at him.  Uber needs to step up with Dray out.  Paschall having a nice game.

Funny how the GSW announcers have no clue about the Knix.  Mid-2Q: "Randle as a distributor.  Wow, he's really looking to pass
the ball."  (who knew?) and "Mitch Robinson is really becoming a terrific defender"
I guess last year was an odd one.  But still they seem clueless about NYK.

RJB playing confidently.
Knix D keeping GS off-kilter.
Refs calling a ton of small fouls.
Knix with 34 FT's entering the 4Q.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 22, 2021, 12:38:15 AM
That first quarter you missed was a beaut.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 22, 2021, 12:44:04 AM
A bit of a boring game after the 1st.   
Free throw fest.
But a win is a win.
Especially on the road.
Especially against that showboat Curry.
Curry and Green were throwing stupid lazy passes.
Curry lost a finals because of a lazy behind the back pass.
Green lost a finals because of technical fouls.
They didn’t learn from that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 22, 2021, 12:51:35 AM
Knix have managed to disrupt a lot of teams offenses.
Keep them off balance and out of rhythm.
I think Knix have most trouble when guys drive hard to the rim.
That has exposed them some and disrupted the defense.
But most teams are content to jack threes and avoid the paint.

Mannion is gritty.
Blanketed Elf and made some drives/passes.  Unafraid.

Knix made their 3's. 
6 guys in double figures.

55 fouls.  80 FT's.
But Knix seem to do well uglying things up.

I probably shouldn't have hunted around more for the MSG feed. 
Homer announcers get a bit tiresome.  But it is interesting to hear their takes on NYK.
They thought Thibs has Knix playing hard, moving their feet, defending.

I thought it was a real mature game from Uncle Julius.  He didn't try to take over or assert himself,
but kept the flow and scored when it was there or favorable matchups.  Had a "quiet" big game of 16 / 17 / 9.
I didn't realize he had so many boards.

Uber and Wiggy were disappointing.  Needed to do more.  Knix have had trouble with athletic guys driving.
Paschal and Bazemore got in deep and scored easily a few times.  Uber and Wiggy needed to attack. 
Uber tried in spurts, but he was missing finishes and good looks.  Either Uber has some nagging injury or isn't focused enough.

A nothing game from Quix and Knocks, but everyone else played well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 22, 2021, 12:53:36 AM
Quote from: elephant on January 22, 2021, 12:38:15 AM
That first quarter you missed was a beaut.

I'll try to catch a replay.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 22, 2021, 04:08:33 AM
Randle got about four boards cleaning up missed dunks and bunnies off his feeds. 

Quick had a sequence setting up Obi then splashing a three (his one make) that opened things up to an 18 point lead. That said it was far from his best game. We’ll probably need more from him on this trip.

It is really really really nice to have Burks back. Shaking the rust off he had 11 points on 7 shots.

Injury rest was a factor in the decision, but I don’t mind Rivers minutes all going to Burks whenever Burks is available. I hope he stays available.

RJ found his beast mode.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 22, 2021, 05:45:28 AM
Kevin Porter Jr to Rockets for a protected 2nd rounder. They’re gonna turn him over to John Lucas. I wish them all luck with it.
Title: RJ > Character > Growth
Post by: chipstern on January 22, 2021, 07:29:42 AM
I am so fucking proud of R.J. Barrett. 

This kid is such a grinder, such a worker bee.  You can plainly see why Thibs LOVES him, and always preaches forebearance when discussing his all around game, and comments about his overall game; his defense and passing; how he rebounds, plays down hill and makes good reads. 

And R.J responds with more work, more work; refining elements of his game, improving across the board. 

I've referenced Jimmy Butler countless times on this forum, and clearly, Thibs is referencing that as well. 

Last year in 1704 minutes R.J. had 50 offensive rebounds.  This year in 593 minutes he has 25. 

Last year in 56 games he made 156-254 FTs, at a .614%.  This year in 16 games he is 61-81, converting at a .753% clip. 

As a shooter?  Work to do, for sure, but R.J. is morphing into a butterfly before our eyes. 

Last night he was 10-17, 2-3 from trey, 6-8 from the FT line for 28 points. 

R.J. has had his Saul on the Road to Tsarsus Moment. 

"I'm not so much a shooter, as I AM A SCORER." 
Title: #44, Hank Aaron
Post by: chipstern on January 22, 2021, 12:14:07 PM
Going

Going

(https://img.bleacherreport.net/img/images/photos/003/350/527/73f59975015b9536f62d92a29938f226_crop_north.png?1428503645&w=3072&h=2048)

GONE

God Bless
Title: BoD [TRADE WINDS]
Post by: chipstern on January 22, 2021, 02:21:10 PM
Ever hear this?

From a 2008 concept album by McCoy Tyner, featuring Ron Carter and Jack DeJohnette in a series of encounters between the pianist and sundry pickers: GUITARS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJE2Ry9DuRE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJE2Ry9DuRE)

"Trade Winds" 

This is a composition by my old friend, banjo player BELA FLECK. 

Bela's cyclical rhythmic-thematic variations really echo those of his tribal elder, the pianist Tyner, in a gripping Coltraneish mode, with echoes of West Africa. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 22, 2021, 02:44:47 PM
Celts Mavs deal

https://www.nbaanalysis.net/2021/01/19/nba-rumors-boston-celtics-dallas-mavericks-trade-kristaps-porzingis/2/
Title: Interesting
Post by: carlos123 on January 22, 2021, 05:55:14 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on January 22, 2021, 02:44:47 PM
Celts Mavs deal

https://www.nbaanalysis.net/2021/01/19/nba-rumors-boston-celtics-dallas-mavericks-trade-kristaps-porzingis/2/

But not the article, just speculative garbage.

What's interesting is this pic for whatever it is they're promoting ...

(https://images.revcontent.com/revcontent/image/fetch/f_auto,h_150,w_225,c_fill,g_face/pg_1/https://media.revcontent.com/content/images/14e6d1999e2c8d02ddb0185247fc2dd1.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 22, 2021, 09:19:58 PM
No KD tonight

Harden and Kyrie get 20 in the first quarter

heh
Title: Re: Interesting
Post by: Kam on January 22, 2021, 09:47:15 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 22, 2021, 05:55:14 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on January 22, 2021, 02:44:47 PM
Celts Mavs deal

https://www.nbaanalysis.net/2021/01/19/nba-rumors-boston-celtics-dallas-mavericks-trade-kristaps-porzingis/2/

But not the article, just speculative garbage.


Pretty bad trade idea. 
Title: heh
Post by: carlos123 on January 22, 2021, 09:50:05 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on January 22, 2021, 09:19:58 PM
No KD tonight

Harden and Kyrie get 20 in the first quarter

heh

heh... WHAT?
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3ckosSoTRHGXG4k-OCA2pVXfzewhXuzBYoGpsyMZVnzDq9ClI46oruQhbgSzQ9NiWcRnXh17QQU1T2E-x8FKtLT4EzHS0NTRyTH3a3D_76D71Q-i9VLGdWCOYKW1N7yNCrXtD_KYx0uYx_1P39yT7qh=w368-h570-no?authuser=0)
heh... WHAT?
Title: Re: Interesting
Post by: carlos123 on January 22, 2021, 09:52:56 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 22, 2021, 09:47:15 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 22, 2021, 05:55:14 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on January 22, 2021, 02:44:47 PM
Celts Mavs deal

https://www.nbaanalysis.net/2021/01/19/nba-rumors-boston-celtics-dallas-mavericks-trade-kristaps-porzingis/2/

But not the article, just speculative garbage.


Pretty bad trade idea.

They have another one about trading Alec Burks to the Lakers for somebody I never heard about and a future second rounder.

I suspect Chamaco Cartero is the editor in chief.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 22, 2021, 10:03:40 PM
Talen Horton-Tucker, perhaps?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 22, 2021, 10:06:36 PM
So Thibs looking to play Elfrid and Immanuel together more.  Nice.

Payton deserving of a boost to 32-33 minutes a night.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 23, 2021, 12:43:35 AM
That’s hilarious.

The thing Thibs should do though in the not too distant future is swap Burks for Bullock in terms of starting and coming off the bench.

Kings have some nice players and we played mentally and physically tired. We caught the loss.

Hali is a damn nice player. He Definitely QBd the win for his team tonight. Holmes is damn impactful too.

Regroup & play better time for our Knicks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 23, 2021, 01:09:45 AM
Schedule loss.  Hard to make threes on tired legs.  Hard to win games making 5 out of 22 threes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 23, 2021, 01:11:56 AM
TyH looked great.  My only question on him is how high is his ceiling.  Is his game (polished as it is) close to his ceiling already?  OR is he a Curry in the making?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 23, 2021, 01:13:08 AM
The thing Thibs should do though in the not too distant future is swap Burks for Bullock in terms of starting and coming off the bench.

Thibs wants the D among the starters.  Reg Bull is a solid player on both ends
(though he really can't put the ball on the floor at all for a wing).
Everyone's superhero Burks thudded back to earth.

TyH and Holmes combined for 10 blocks!
SacKings only had 6 turnovers.

I only caught the last few minutes.
But TyH can play.  Post-game he admitted to a little extra motivation v. NYK due to the way draft night went down.

SAC actually has good unbiased informative announcers in Mark Jones and Doug Christie.  They thought a key to the endgame was Luke switching Bagley on to RJB and Hairy Barnes on Randle.

Knix shot only 5-22 on 3's, with RJB making both of his.  Non-RJB Knix 3-19.
Looks like a tired game -- and of course Knick starters have been playing major mins.
Title: TyH
Post by: carlos123 on January 23, 2021, 01:18:50 AM
Quote from: Kam on January 23, 2021, 01:11:56 AM
TyH looked great.  My only question on him is how high is his ceiling.  Is his game (polished as it is) close to his ceiling already?  OR is he a Curry in the making?

This question may come back to haunt us.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 23, 2021, 01:38:55 AM
Give him 3 or four years to grow into a man’s body and be able to hold his spot. Then you will start to get a peak at his upper floors.

I still like our kids though, but they need even more work.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 23, 2021, 01:44:14 AM
Theoretically, on a redraft for the Knicks, Halliburton followed by McDaniels or Tillman or Bane or Perry or Reed or to throw Kid a bone Carey, and we’d be better off.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 23, 2021, 02:19:32 AM
Knix have won other games with very poor 3 point shooting.
The ones I recall:
v. ATL, Knick starters 1-12 on 3's
v. UTA, Knick starters 2-13; game saved by Rivers killing it 5-7

I think Haliburton is pretty smooth and polished, but can develop and round his game.  He has a good feel on both ends, a nice 2-way player.  TyH can improve his PG play, get more consistent on 3's, learn the League.  He's already an above average player and probably his team's best 2-way player.  And you're worried about ceiling.  (ironically, not a high ceiling was one of the knocks on Knix pix ObiT).  Basically on these Knix, TyH could be taking the Reg Bollocks starting spot.

TyH reminds me some of Kerry Kittles but with more ballhandling/passing ability.
Best is TyH seems to be a hardworker, high BB IQ, with good self-awareness.
Is he going to be just a solid starter you can rely on or an all-star?  Not that many good 2-way players, let alone rooks.  He'd certainly look good on these Knix.  Helping Elf and Julius keep the ball moving and offense flowing.  Balancing out Quickly in the same manner on the 2nd unit.  Versatile player.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 23, 2021, 02:36:56 AM
Didn't say I was worried about his ceiling.  I'm saying he's already quite good (and I did want to draft him).  It's just fair to ask if he has an All-Star level or not.  I think he could be a Brogdon type, yes.  He doesn't have that far to go to get to that level.  Does he have a level beyond that? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 23, 2021, 02:45:22 AM
Knicks hadn't won both of a B2B in 4 years before they did it earlier this season.  Wasn't gonna happen again so soon.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 23, 2021, 02:52:30 AM
Brogdon is a good comparison.
Though TyH a bit more athletic and The Frog a very solid 3-point shooter.

Brogdon and Holmes two of my fave NBA players.  TyH might be making the Top 10 soon.  Actually I have no such list, but maybe should make one.
kiid always asserts that I don't like any players because I don't like the sloppy gunners who play no D he favors.

Wow, The Frog just turned 28.  He made his pro debut at 23, and turned 24 a few months into his career (Dec 11).  So was a 24 year old rook.  Career 47 / 39 / 89.5%.  Smart 2-way player.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 23, 2021, 02:56:43 AM
Just learned you can catch some Knix highlights on their twitter feed:
https://twitter.com/nyknicks
Secure your Clyde fix as well.

Perhaps indeed a schedule loss.
But Knix got lucky in the previous game.
Was a B2B for GSW compounded by Dray Green unceremoniously ejected by mistake, thus missing the entire 2nd half.  The schedule (and refs) setting you up for 1-1 on the Road?  I'll take it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 23, 2021, 03:10:56 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 22, 2021, 09:19:58 PM
No KD tonight
Harden and Kyrie get 20 in the first quarter
heh

And Nets lost by 12, getting smoked in the 3Q, giving up 37 Pts.
How do they function without KD who is their backup C and DeAndretheGiant too creaky for huge minutes.  They need to add a player or two via buyouts or Deleagured fellas or guys who can't play overseas because of the pandemic.
look into Alex Len, a Big who was just waived.  If he's healthy.  He can spot in 15 mins a night at C.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 23, 2021, 04:15:31 AM
The Wiz are picking up Len to fill some Thomas Bryant minutes.

Kittles is a good comp for Hali. I was trying to decide who was quicker between him and Fox. It’s close.

If you are gonna hang your hat on D, you need to stake yourself to a lead. To me that means packing dependable scoring into your starting unit.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 23, 2021, 07:43:44 AM
Knix 1st in limiting opponents FG% and 3-Pt%.
And if that isn't surprising enough, ATL is 2nd in both categories.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 23, 2021, 08:26:30 AM
(http://www.woodyallenpages.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/annie-hall-basketball.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 23, 2021, 10:33:36 AM
TyH played very well.  Loved the play where he followed his man after getting picked off, blocked Bullocks FT line J from the side, then followed the ball in the air and glued himself to RJB at the 3-point elbow.  Stayed with RJ who passed as the shot clock ran out.  Also a terrific play where he attacked a close out and did a little floater before Mitch could react.  Had a beautiful steal and fast break dunk on an iffy Burks pass.
Deflected a ball out of bounds as the Knix were swinging it to the corner, allowing the D to reset.  Didn't let Topping post him up in a mismatch.  Even his 3 turnovers were understandable.  A travel attacking a closeout -- being called a lot more this year.  I saw LeBJ get hit with tow of those in the 4Q the other day.  Another: Knix got a steal, lost it and TyH picked it up at halfcourt and zoomed it a bit too high for a King spotted up in the corner.  Another, spotted Bagley open for a moment under the rim, but he couldn't get it there as the Knix recovered quickly. 

All that is just in the 1st half for TyH -- which is what I've watched so far.  Good stuff, despite Ty in the post-game interview saying he was a bit rough in the 1st half (probably referencing the 3 turns).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 23, 2021, 10:39:12 AM
Randle started off frontrimming his first 2 attempts, usually a sign of tired legs.
Then got going.  But couldn't hit 3's.

Knox still doesn't manage to go string to the rim, but at least got his own miss for a putback.  I think a lot of it is mental for Knox.  Though maybe his jumping is peculiar.
Knix looked best when Elf got it going briefly 2Q.  Knix could have used more energy from Quicks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 23, 2021, 10:57:21 AM
Kings make some bad/weird mistakes.

Mid 2Q they start playing zone which has worked vs. NYK for some opponents.
They do a fine job two possessions.  Then the Knix next trip around 4:20 left sees 2 and maybe 3 Kings guarding no one.  Everyone looks confused.  Randle unguarded dribbles to the FT line, Bagley comes towards him and Mitch is completely open under the rim.  Knix didn't have to do anything to just walk into a dunk.
I realize many teams don't practice zone much, but that was abysmal.

With 1:36 left in the half, Elf tosses Mitch an alleyoop.  Fox goes to inbound but not one King is in the backcourt.  Uh ...  Barnes sprints back but Elf sees him coming from a long way off and leaves Fox to guard him.  So Holmes has to sprint backcourt to get the inbounds.

End of the game, twice in the last 2 minutes, up by around 10, the Kings foul a Knick Big as he's ramming in a O-board.  Just let the NYK get the 2, but dumb to give up 3-pt ops (as it was Randle and then Mitch missed the FT's).

I'm not sure of that coaching or players mentality or both, but seems Kings have been prone to spacing out for the past few years.  I think Bags and Hield are often culprits, but Barnes could play with more fire.  And Fox needs to take over and up the energy when things are slipping.  Some issues concerning leadership, energy, focus and smarts.
Title: Re: TyH
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 23, 2021, 11:52:27 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 23, 2021, 01:18:50 AM
Quote from: Kam on January 23, 2021, 01:11:56 AM
TyH looked great.  My only question on him is how high is his ceiling.  Is his game (polished as it is) close to his ceiling already?  OR is he a Curry in the making?

This question may come back to haunt us.

You gave that question thought?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 23, 2021, 12:01:48 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 23, 2021, 03:10:56 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 22, 2021, 09:19:58 PM
No KD tonight
Harden and Kyrie get 20 in the first quarter
heh

And Nets lost by 12, getting smoked in the 3Q, giving up 37 Pts.
How do they function without KD who is their backup C and DeAndretheGiant too creaky for huge minutes.  They need to add a player or two via buyouts or Deleagured fellas or guys who can't play overseas because of the pandemic.
look into Alex Len, a Big who was just waived.  If he's healthy.  He can spot in 15 mins a night at C.

Its a minutes thing for Nets - KD behind Jordan works out fine - when they are whole.

Of course there is a risk when KD or Jordan misses the game

Perry/Ckaxton need to step up.  No use replacing them with Len.

A deal for a better guy?  Sure.

Keep your eyes on the Cavaliers.  By trade deadline, is McGee available?  Already appears Drummond would be.
Title: And The SMUG Kiid Douchebaggery Award
Post by: chipstern on January 23, 2021, 02:13:49 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 23, 2021, 01:13:08 AM
The thing Thibs should do though in the not too distant future is swap Burks for Bullock in terms of starting and coming off the bench.

Thibs wants the D among the starters.  Reg Bull is a solid player on both ends
(though he really can't put the ball on the floor at all for a wing).
Everyone's superhero Burks thudded back to earth.

TyH and Holmes combined for 10 blocks!
SacKings only had 6 turnovers.

I only caught the last few minutes.
But TyH can play.  Post-game he admitted to a little extra motivation v. NYK due to the way draft night went down.

SAC actually has good unbiased informative announcers in Mark Jones and Doug Christie.  They thought a key to the endgame was Luke switching Bagley on to RJB and Hairy Barnes on Randle.

Knix shot only 5-22 on 3's, with RJB making both of his.  Non-RJB Knix 3-19.
Looks like a tired game -- and of course Knick starters have been playing major mins.

You know what? 

If your goal is to compete with Kiid for the SMUG DOUCHEBAGGERY AWARD, we may have to retire your number. 

Burks is out for close to a month with a really bad ankle sprain, two games back, yet to get into rhythm, and to you, this validates your elevated opinion, being so much smarter than the rest of us. 

SEE, I TOLD YOU HE SUCKS. 

You are really rather full of yourself, are you not. 
Title: Re: TyH
Post by: carlos123 on January 23, 2021, 02:22:52 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on January 23, 2021, 11:52:27 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 23, 2021, 01:18:50 AM
Quote from: Kam on January 23, 2021, 01:11:56 AM
TyH looked great.  My only question on him is how high is his ceiling.  Is his game (polished as it is) close to his ceiling already?  OR is he a Curry in the making?

This question may come back to haunt us.

You gave that question thought?

Yes, Chamaco. Ever since Knicks management chose to go with ObiT.

And how about you?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 23, 2021, 03:24:08 PM
Watching Obi get a little better and a little better as we go, I don’t think about it much at all.

I’m still ahead on my record pace, based on my prediction.

Player movement within half court sets is the key variable on how successful we’ll be night to night.
Title: Re: TyH
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 23, 2021, 05:48:39 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 23, 2021, 02:22:52 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on January 23, 2021, 11:52:27 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 23, 2021, 01:18:50 AM
Quote from: Kam on January 23, 2021, 01:11:56 AM
TyH looked great.  My only question on him is how high is his ceiling.  Is his game (polished as it is) close to his ceiling already?  OR is he a Curry in the making?

This question may come back to haunt us.

You gave that question thought?

Yes, Chamaco. Ever since Knicks management chose to go with ObiT.

And how about you?

Do I think Haliburton can be Steph Curry?

No.  I do not.
Title: Re: TyH
Post by: carlos123 on January 23, 2021, 10:03:22 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on January 23, 2021, 05:48:39 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 23, 2021, 02:22:52 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on January 23, 2021, 11:52:27 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 23, 2021, 01:18:50 AM
Quote from: Kam on January 23, 2021, 01:11:56 AM
TyH looked great.  My only question on him is how high is his ceiling.  Is his game (polished as it is) close to his ceiling already?  OR is he a Curry in the making?

This question may come back to haunt us.

You gave that question thought?

Yes, Chamaco. Ever since Knicks management chose to go with ObiT.

And how about you?

Do I think Haliburton can be Steph Curry?

No.  I do not.

Ok, Chamaco, good for you.

But,... "You gave that question thought?", that was your original question.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 23, 2021, 11:11:47 PM
I think folks have gotten overly excited about one or two or three game samples.
Noel had a terrific game or two pre-season and everyone seem to anoint him the starting C and a key guy.
Burks had a 3 game scoring outburst and he was touted as a great addition.  He's a journeyman who could be helpful if healthy.
Hell, Ellington shot 6-7 on 3's yesterday for DET. 
I think career accomplishment and trajectory is more significant and indicative of a players worth.  Also fit with this team.
Rivers had two games where he looked like an all-star then slumped off -- in keeping with his erratic career.

Anyway, we'll see how things pan out.  I still think Bullox is the best of our 3 vet SG's because he plays D is solid on both ends, doesn't need the ball,
and is capable of playing SF (just don't let him dribble).  Seemingly Thibs agrees.  While Rivers is useful because he can help move the ball and share ballhandling duties, is aggressive and can get hot.
Which imo leaves Burks as the 3rd guy (and then there's the ghost of Franc).  Burks is more of a one-on-one scorer and doesn't have the D of Reg or the ballhandling of Rivers.
If Burks can score and play team ball enough without turnovers that gives Thibs more options.

Of course, Bollocks, Rivers, Burks (and Franc) are all prone to minor injuries and missing time.  So having extra bodies is useful. 
Bullox not that likely to rip off scoring jags, but is a more steady team-oriented feller.  One thing notable, especially with Quickly's emergence, is how little
we miss Franc.  Not that he couldn't have a role.  But Franc and Jr. Smith are in limbo.                                                           
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 23, 2021, 11:25:21 PM
The way Thibs has Knix guarding PnR's has Randle(/Mitch) coming into the paint on help D, everybody sagging to the paint to clog up drives, and then either RJB or RegBull responsible for scrambling out to weak side 3-point shooters.  If you put Burks in the starting lineup, then that would be his defensive assignment, and he's never shown much defensive acumen.  It requires a quick decision and reaction.  And good closeout technique.  I assume Thibs is fairly pleased with how well the Knick halfcourt D is so far and isn't going to change it.  Thibs cares more about solid D than solid 3's.

Knix have to work on transition D which has been awful this season.  But the past 2 games have had few turnovers, so that hasn't been exposed.  Which is good because Fox, TyH and Barnes are terrific on the break, as is SCurvy.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 24, 2021, 01:25:19 AM
Porzingis missed another game.  I guess he isn't playing back to backs.  Dallas is 3-3 with him shooting a career low 33% from 3.
Title: Provenance
Post by: Kam on January 24, 2021, 01:43:48 AM
In 2018 the Sixers drafted Khryi Thomas (SG Creighton) No. 38 overall.  The Pistons sent two future second-round picks  (2021, 2013) to secure Thomas' draft rights.

Later that season before the trade deadline the 76'ers sent the second round picks they acquired from Detroit  to the Clippers along with a cast of other players (Shamet, Chandler, Muscala) and two 1st rounders for Tobias Harris.

A year to the day later the Clippers acquired Marcus Morris from the Knicks for Moe Harkless, a 2021 first round pick (later traded for Immanuel Quickley and a 2023 second round pick), the rights to Yussuf Sannon (later traded for Austin Rivers) and the 2021 second round pick that was originally the Pistons pick.

If the season ended today that pick would be the first pick of the 2nd round giving the Knicks 3 of the first 31 picks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 24, 2021, 03:04:48 AM
Quote from: Kam on January 24, 2021, 01:25:19 AM
Porzingis missed another game.  I guess he isn't playing back to backs.  Dallas is 3-3 with him shooting a career low 33% from 3.

KZ played a B2B set last week.  But this was the 5th game in 7 days.
6-13 on 3's his last 3 outings.  An 0-7 stinker sunk his %, especially since he's only played 6 games so far.  12-29 = 41% on 3's in the other 5 games.

KZ recently had a 12-15 FG game v. IND.  Miles Turner was out.  And I assumed KZ was lights out.  But then I watched some of the game, and he had 4 or 5 oops from Luka, and at least 3 O-board putbacks.  So it was all dunks and layups.  His one made trey (1-3) was a straightaway completely wide open shot.

Also worrisome was that Luka seemed to hurt his knee a few times in the IND game, was limping around some but walked it off each time.  Can't take Luka's health and durability for granted.  But lots of guys are out.

Quote
Dallas has been without Dorian Finney-Smith, Maxi Kleber, Dwight Powell and Josh Richardson because of COVID-19 protocols.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 24, 2021, 04:05:00 AM
(https://preview.redd.it/ewlwa7paq2d61.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=8d9d1338a18da193c183f27ff952e28ff49e0d3d)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 24, 2021, 07:54:21 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 23, 2021, 12:01:48 PM
Perry/Claxton need to step up.  No use replacing them with Len.

4Q v. MIA Nets were using Jeff Green at C.
Of course, Heat were playing Bam (40 Pts) at C.

No way Nets rely on Claxton or Perry in key games or the playoffs.

Wiz added both Len and Jordan Bell.  Nice pickups.
Though they should just play Moe Wagner more.

Nets could use some beef to battle Embiid, keep Tristan off the glass, deal with MyTurn, Lopez, maybe Capela in a 1st round matchup.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 24, 2021, 01:50:14 PM

Noel had a terrific game or two pre-season and everyone seem to anoint him the starting C and a key guy.

He is

Burks had a 3 game scoring outburst and he was touted as a great addition.

He was

Rivers had two games where he looked like an all-star then slumped off -- in keeping with his erratic career.

Solid career.  Slump?  Meh.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 24, 2021, 01:54:18 PM
No way Nets rely on Claxton or Perry in key games or the playoffs.


As I said
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 24, 2021, 01:55:24 PM
Nets could use some beef to battle Embiid, keep Tristan off the glass, deal with MyTurn, Lopez, maybe Capela in a 1st round matchup.


Maybe JaVale McGee becomes available

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 24, 2021, 02:29:02 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 24, 2021, 01:54:18 PM
No way Nets rely on Claxton or Perry in key games or the playoffs.


As I said

I will add that we are speaking just of this year.  I like what I have seen of Perry. (Haven't seen Claxton)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 24, 2021, 02:30:21 PM
Kyrie Irving is just an incredible player

Celtics screwed up.  As did Knicks if we had any chance to add him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 24, 2021, 03:10:14 PM
Looking back on Kyrie's decision to bolt Boston - and the ensuing Celts prospects

Many will argue that in order to win a title you must have a top 10-15 player in the league. Just look at the champions of the last decade.



https://chowderandchampions.com/2019/06/12/boston-celtics-irvings-decision-holds-celtics-hostage/#:~:text=Kyrie%20Irving%E2%80%99s%20decision%20will%20seemingly%20affect%20the%20Boston,fairly%20young%20team%20and%20a%20few%20%28overpaid%29%20veterans.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 24, 2021, 04:12:25 PM
O G Anunoby season high 30 today with Siakam and Lowry out.  Raptors roaring back from slow start.  M Turner stayed hot, blocked 6 shots but not enough for Indy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 24, 2021, 05:00:19 PM
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-sM2S38YrVhA/YA3twL6gdlI/AAAAAAAAFOM/wQYOOqVRW1A_zk5WRCiGqXEEh0wJ9DnngCLcBGAsYHQ/w400-h250/Screen%2BShot%2B2021-01-24%2Bat%2B4.58.53%2BPM.png)
Title: You broke it
Post by: carlos123 on January 24, 2021, 06:59:09 PM
Hey Kamster, I was waiting to see if Chamaco filled a full page by himself on this forum. I’m sure more random musings will come to him before game time tonight.
And then you broke Chamaco’s one page domination with your Bulls pic.
Poor Chamaco!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 24, 2021, 08:20:53 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 24, 2021, 02:30:21 PM
Kyrie Irving is just an incredible player
Celtics screwed up.  As did Knicks if we had any chance to add him.

Kyrie is a pain in the ass.

What about the games he just missed because he decided he needed a break?
Great teammate there.
Sure glad I don't have to root for Kyrie.
BOS doesn't miss him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 24, 2021, 08:39:29 PM
Boston is short - if a title they do wish.

I did do some research on the Irving-Celts negotiation.  Seems there wasnt one.

And SEXTON being the pick they gave away has to hurt.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 24, 2021, 09:49:47 PM
Heh

Another 39 and 9 for Gordie Hayward as Hornets get 7th win

50-90
13-25
35-42

last 5 games
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 24, 2021, 10:11:40 PM
Good to see Bo's guy Burks get the start tonight

Reggie down - sore neck
Title: Enes the Menace
Post by: carlos123 on January 25, 2021, 12:02:47 AM
Don’t look at me Kamster.
Clyde said it, I’m just quoting 😉
Title: IQ
Post by: carlos123 on January 25, 2021, 12:42:26 AM
WOW!!!
He has arrived.
A complete player, and great 3-point shooting tonight.
Just what we needed.
We lost, but what a game by Quickley!
Once he got in, coach just couldn’t get him out, for the entire second half.
He’s our young Kemba Walker.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 25, 2021, 12:48:31 AM
Took us too long to get them out of their zone.

Burks had some zip.

Not as disappointing an outing as it was heading into halftime. I think we got some useful film out of the exercise.

Utah up next.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 25, 2021, 12:54:21 AM
No McCollum or Nurk; Hood & Kanter starting in their place.
Burks starting for NYK

1Q
Mitch 0-2, both blocked by Covington. Who also got down on the pine ripped away the loose ball and made a sweet pass from the floor to Kanter for a layup.
Blazers going Zone early -- that's the scouting report on the Knix
Elf all over Dame, but Lillard looking smooth & unruffled

Knix getting killed.
Quickly looking pretty good; Rivers a mess.
Giles with some nice hustle – also missed 3 bunnies

Not sure why, but RJB was uncharacteristically silent 1st half
Quickie messed up last possession of the half; letting POR get a fats break bucket

3Q
Burks back to all-star mode (though worst Knick +/-).
Notice it's Burks left trying to close out on POR 3-ballers.  Not his forte.
RJB still MIA.  But Knix hanging around.
Melo shooting poorly (2-11 so far), but making contributions

4Q
Knix do a lot of taking a foul to slow down early offense
Usually Bullox.  But Knix doing it twice this game w/out Bollcoks. 
Why do we do this?

Quickie getting the Knix back in it.
Odd game – Quix and Burx combining for 38.
Trent & Simons = 24 on 6-11 on 3’s.
Lillard the difference, but it’s role player G’s doing a lot of the damage.

Kant D(!) frustrating Randle
Simon says “3”
Knix getting a lot of turnovers once they started doubling late.
Blazers announcers were surprised Knix didn’t double-team a hot Lillard in the 3Q & 4Q to get the ball out of his hands.

Lillard 66 straight made FT’s.
Career high for IQ – was rooting for him to get 30.

Knic got scrappy and made it a dogfight.
Some iffy late calls.  I didn't think Quick should get FT's on a rip-thru; Kanter forced Randle's arm to pop Covington in the choppers.  Though in an odd way semi-helpful, as that meant Knix got the ball back after POR FT's with no time off the clock.

Nice to see Knix compete with both RJB & Randle tired.
Lotta POR role players stepped up: Simons, Trent, Kant, Giles, DJ Jr.
Knix really needed one more guy to get hot or make an impact Tops/Knocks/AuRevoir didn't do much off the bench
Title: Immanuel Quickley is the first rookie
Post by: Kam on January 25, 2021, 02:19:45 AM
StatMuse
@statmuse

Immanuel Quickley is the first rookie with 30+ PTS and 5+ 3PM in a game off the bench in Knicks franchise history.
Title: Fill in the blank
Post by: Kam on January 25, 2021, 02:20:54 AM
IQ isn't starting because ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 25, 2021, 03:27:09 AM
Jump passes immediately comes to mind. Other than that...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 25, 2021, 06:59:54 AM
Thibs likely wants to continue with the solid D and the benefit of keeping his starting unit together.  Elf is a pest on D.  Was this the 2nd game Knix didn't have the same starting 5?  And only one player switched (Bollocks hurt; Burks filling in).

We could use the extra 3-point shooting, as Elf clanks.  But IQ has been streaky on 3's.  Prior to this 5-8 gem, he was 3-11 last 3 games.  Earlier had a 1-12 4 game bricky streak from deep.  If IQ was a reliable 3-baller that might force Thibs hand.

Starting, NYK would rely on Quickie handling PnR's and executing the D schemes against starting PG's.  Do you really want Quick guarding Scurvy and Dame? 
While running the O.  That's a lot on a rook's plate. 

I like the way TomThumb is handling it.  Elf starting and Quix finishing.  Adjust minutes according to who is playing well.  Love having an excellent FT shooter out there at the end of games.  Elf & Quick are proving a pretty solid PG tandem.  Jr. Smith a total afterthought.  Good job rook.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 25, 2021, 09:12:16 AM
lol, you cannot get more eaten alive than Elf was ingested by Dame.
No worries about Quick guarding those types. No downside compared to the current.
There is no benefit to keeping this starting unit together.
The density on O with Elf suffocating things is like, black hole dense, IQ & Burks are instant open uppers. RJB will prob demand a trade by Feb if it doesn't change.
It will change soon enough, no worries Kam.

3-11. 28%. That Quick bad streak is BETTER THAN ELF'S SEASON AVERAGE, lol. Actually, its his lifetime career average.

(Elf is so lucky there are no fans at MSG. The howling would be deafening).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 25, 2021, 10:05:20 AM
Re. Smith Jr

One thing with Thibs - we won't be saying he is playing a guy to up his trade value.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 25, 2021, 10:08:21 AM
Is it just me or does Toppin look slow?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 25, 2021, 10:16:17 AM
Not playing DSjr INCREASES his trade value. Harder to tell that he's an instant 10 point deficit if he never gets in a game.


*** his current trade value = one pack of Watermelon Now & Laters.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 25, 2021, 10:17:37 AM
Someone on twitter said that "Toppin moves like an old man, yet jumps like a kangaroo"
I haven't seen ObiT enough, but will try to observe.

Lillard was playing at a crazy high level.
Elf had much better luck harassing Scurry.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 25, 2021, 11:40:48 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 25, 2021, 10:17:37 AM
Someone on twitter said that "Toppin moves like an old man, yet jumps like a kangaroo"
I haven't seen ObiT enough, but will try to observe.

Lillard was playing at a crazy high level.
Elf had much better luck harassing Scurry.

Alec Burks

18 points in 27 minutes on 6-9 FGs

5-8 Trey

4 boards, 1 assist, 3 steals

Sayeth BoD: "Yawn.  Overrated Journeyman."

Thanks for sharing. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 25, 2021, 11:53:24 AM
Well Bo can think what he likes about Burks, but the funny part is his continued insistence that Thibs values Bulloxks more...all while Thibs has given more minutes to Burks..

EVERY SINGLE GAME, PRE AND POST INJURY
Title: IQ
Post by: chipstern on January 25, 2021, 12:44:32 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on January 25, 2021, 11:53:24 AM
Well Bo can think what he likes about Burks, but the funny part is his continued insistence that Thibs values Bulloxks more...all while Thibs has given more minutes to Burks..

EVERY SINGLE GAME, PRE AND POST INJURY

Well, Thibs likes Reggie's D, but Reggie is hurting, so we shall see when Bullock comes back. 

Bo thinks we should have signed BB to the contract Atlanta gave him.  We disagree. 

Bo thinks we should have made a run at Christian Wood.  We agree.  Know he was on our radar before we drafted Obi.  We appear to have struck gold on High IQ. 

As per the issue of starting? 

Last night Elfrid played 24 and Immanuel played 24. 

IQ is wending his way to signficantly more minutes.  Worth recalling that it took IQ a number of games coming back from injury to shake off the rust on get into rhythm. 

We know Thibs LOVES High IQ.  I get the sense he wants to make his a starter in all but starting. 

Remember a very talented Jazz PF/SF name of Thurl Bailey? 

There was a period of time early on in the Strockton/Malone/Eaton Epoch when the Jazz used to start Marc Ianaroni and bring Thurl in off the bench, affording him cushier matchups as a 6'11" PF/SF. 

Proving?

Not a damn thing. 

But I think Thibs is trying to ease IQ in, not that he doesn't believe in him, quite the contrary, and he came damn close to helping us pull out a game we had no right to be in after a horrific first half. 

I don't think Thibs wants to lose Elfrid, who seems to shine maybe 1-out-of-3 games, what with Frank coming back and Austin Rivers also competing for minutes. 

Austin appears to be hurting, because after a hot start, he has come down to Earth. 

Me personally? 

I would like to see an IQ/French Frank combo, with Frank D-ing up and playing both on and off the ball, with Burks and RJ and Bullock fighting for minutes at the 3. 

But as per IQ? 

It's coming. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 25, 2021, 01:20:17 PM
TyH would have been much better than Bogdanovich (or Topping).
TyH and Wood (+Quickly) would have been terrific

The IQ/Rivers pairing had been working well.

"Thibs doesn't play rooks."  - Doug McDermott
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 25, 2021, 01:36:56 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 25, 2021, 01:20:17 PM
TyH would have been much better than Bogdanovich (or Topping).
TyH and Wood (+Quickly) would have been terrific

The IQ/Rivers pairing had been working well.

"Thibs doesn't play rooks."  - Doug McDermott

"Thibs doesn't play schnooks." 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 25, 2021, 02:21:56 PM
Rewatched the 1Q. 
https://nbafullhd.com/13881-2/

Burks iffy D:
- 1st POR possession Hood just shot over Burks. 
- A couple plays later Burks isn't sure which weak side spot-up shooter he is supposed to close out on.  He correctly heads towards the guy getting the first pass, Covington on the elbow, but then changes his mind and veers to the corner shooter.  So RJ has to rush out to Covington, who attacks the closeout and RJB gets called for a foul for grabbing Cove a bit. 
- Later in the 1Q, Burks twice drifts too far giving Hood a pair of wide open 3's (he missed the 1st; made the 2nd).
Lillard gets by Elf and zooms past Burks who puts up no resistance (Clyde talks about how that was too easy)

The Good:
Burks made a pair of 3's and had a steal on 3-on-2 fast break.

Other mistakes:
- Tried to feed Randle in a crowd down low early 1Q and it was easily stolen.
- Had a wide open 10 foot shot, but passed back to Randle who was covered and not expecting it, Julius drove and threw a running pass out of bounds (I'll give Burks an assist on that turnover). 
- his 3rd 3 with 3 mins left hit the backboard, missing the rim. Then Knox came in for Burks, who had a 9 min 1Q run

Burks looks a bit uncertain, maybe from limited playing, and overly deferred to Randle.  Burks also at times has looked unsure in this and the past couple games if he should take open midrange shots.

His 3-ball looks smooth.  Though the two games before, Burks shot poorly.
Burks hasn't played or practiced much with the team, and right now, Burks looks like he's trying to fit in and figure out what to do aside from shooting 3's.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 25, 2021, 02:25:17 PM
Quickley, Burks, RJ, Randle, and Mitch is clearly our most potent lineup. Thibs might not be ready to go there yet, but if Thibs wants to keep starting Payton at least now he has a credible option if he wants to give Elf a quick hook when he makes a series of negative plays.

Payton needs to play up to keep his role. If he can manage it that’s nothing but good news for the team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 25, 2021, 03:11:16 PM
Burks hasn't played or practiced much with the team, and right now, Burks looks like he's trying to fit in and figure out what to do aside from shooting 3's.


Did you miss Burks' nice dish on the 2 v 1 with Randle?

When you blast a guy as an overrated stiff we had no right signing to his current deal - and then he comes out and shoots lights out - TIP OVER YOUR KING.

44, 55, 79 shooting for AB this year.  And yes, the 3 pt % will go down.  To a more than acceptable number, I'd think.  As likely will the PER, currently at 19.2, just behind Julius and ahead of our PER stud Robinson.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 25, 2021, 03:46:54 PM
Analytics watch

Burks - game scores

4 of 6   15 or greater
1 of 6   18 or greater
0 of 6   20 or greater
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 25, 2021, 03:51:03 PM
Julius - our king -

13 of 18   15 or greater
11 of 18   18 or greater
7 of 18     20 or greater

Wanna look at anyone else?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 25, 2021, 03:53:59 PM
Quicks hit on a 23.9 last night, if you are wondering.  Julius only has three games above that this year
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 25, 2021, 05:59:24 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 25, 2021, 10:08:21 AM
Is it just me or does Toppin look slow?

Yes. He does look slow.

Seems pretty explicit. Meanwhile, he's fond of driving in from the corner along the baseline — it almost always meets with disaster.

I assume he's still adjusting to the pace of the game at this level.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 25, 2021, 06:08:26 PM
In the Burks/Bullocks competition, I prefer Burks who seems way more versatile on offense. 

Would be interested in hearing what was going on with Barrett. Invisible for chunks until he was simply kept out for most of the 4th quarter. He had been playing so aggressively and so impressively. Still an open question whether he be that kind of ball player day in and day out — I'm betting yes.

I liked the unit in the 4th quarter where Randle has a series of 3 point shooters he can dish off to. You can win games with that shit!

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 25, 2021, 06:40:13 PM
Yeah, Barret plays just ten first half minutes, getting one shot and we are down 20.  Weird

Maybe Thibs just didn't like the way Jones was taking RJ out of his game.

Interesting that Blazers had an answer for Randle (Covington) and for Barrett but not for Quickley.

Dame's D the Achilles heel for Blazers when playoffs arrive?

They ARE 10-6 and without the best health so may be nothing
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 25, 2021, 06:43:14 PM
Speaking of playoffs, Vegas odds showing HUGE drop from the 2 LA teams.  I think the 3rd team is +750 to win the West.

(Lakers +160, Clippers +270, if I recall)
Title: IQ
Post by: Kam on January 25, 2021, 09:44:52 PM
The only rookie in the Top 3 of both Points and Assists per 36 minutes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 25, 2021, 10:25:49 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 25, 2021, 03:11:16 PM
When you blast a guy as an overrated stiff we had no right signing to his current deal - and then he comes out and shoots lights out ...

Except that never happened.  I've merely pointed out that Burks is Joe Journeyman, much like Bollocks and Ellington and Rivers.  Doesn't mean he can't have a good year or contribute.  Reg stuck for a 2nd NYK season.

I've just thought Bullox and Rivers are better fits on this team primarily for their D and ballhandling/passing respectively.  And out of our 5 SG's, Burks is the worst defender.  Burks might be the best 3-point shooter.  Career-wise Reg has a higher %, but the last 3 years Burks has been better and Reg slumping. 

All 4 of our SG's aside from RJB have had injury woes, and Rivers and Franc are prone to slumps.  So Burks as an extra SG is fine with me.  I'm pretty sure I never said he was a bad signing.  A one year flyer on a gunner with iffy D -- so far is paying off.  Though I would have preferred a long term 3&D SG/wing solution such as TyH or Bogdanovich.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 25, 2021, 10:32:33 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 25, 2021, 05:59:24 PM
Meanwhile, he's fond of driving in from the corner along the baseline — it almost always meets with disaster.
I assume he's still adjusting to the pace of the game at this level.

In pre-season his baseline moves/drives were working.

ObiT is effective moving without the ball along the baseline and either getting open for a drop off pass or being in the mix for an O-board.

Maybe part of the problem is that Randle and RJB and Elf are all drivers, so ObiT is stuck more on the perimeter as a 3-point shooter.  A similar fate/role that Knox is contending with.

But I haven't really seen Toppings much.  Or noticed who he is out there with.  I think mostly Quickly, Nawlins along with Rivers and RJB. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 25, 2021, 10:44:43 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 25, 2021, 06:40:13 PM
Dame's D the Achilles heel for Blazers when playoffs arrive?
They ARE 10-6 and without the best health so may be nothing

Lillard and McCollum are both weak and smallish defenders.
Always an issue for POR, though both can play outscorem ball.

You can see why they added Covington and D Jones Jr. who are athletic marvels.

Unfortunately Zach Collins seems made of glass.
After bad shoulders last year, he's has surgery twice on his ankle and has no return date set.

Yikes, it's Lillard and 4 usual bench players starting v. OKC.
Seems Covington got concussed in the Knick game, maybe when Kanter used Randle's arm to punch Cove in the face.  Melo starting in his place.

While OKC starts Shai and 4 guys you never heard of before last year or this year -- Maledon - Roby - Dort - Bazley.
https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=401267427
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 26, 2021, 12:23:44 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 30, 2020, 01:43:58 PM
kiid: The stroke has certainly improved quite nicely since.

Reality: Burks shot between 40% FG and 41% FG each of the last 6 years.

Why post unsubstantiated crapola?
Why cry when someone actually posts the numbers to disprove your assertion?

I have no idea how Burks will be used.
Maybe he'll have a Rodney Hood breakout year out of nowhere.
Likely not.  POR has a nicely structured team, even Melo fit in well there.

I prefer Rivers, who has some ballhandling ability, and Bullox who plays better D and doesn't need many shots to Burks jacking routine.  I'd probably go with scrubbini, but should be better than Ellington (another player I never cared for).
Really, I'd prefer Dotson, and think Burks is around his level, able to show flashes but not consistency.  If Burks starts, we're in trouble, and he'll lead the team in FGA's unless Thibs directs otherwise.

heh
Title: Enes the Menace!
Post by: carlos123 on January 26, 2021, 12:43:32 AM
Wow!
22 bounds tonight, to go with 3 assists to boot.
And Melo with 22 points for a +15.
They still lost by 3 to OKC 🤣

PS. Chamaco, heh ... what???
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 26, 2021, 04:13:51 AM
Well, that's almost exactly what I've been saying all along.

Though with the emergence of Quickly, Rivers might be less necessary.  Though Thibs was using Rivers as a supporting G for IQ.

I prefer(red) Datsun because he's younger and I've been getting tired of all these one-and-done Knix.  It's nice to see growth and continuity, and not get worn down rooting for a lot of Noah Vonlehs who won't be back.  We had Trier and Dot and I was hoping one would be a 3+ year Knick.  It's hard to evaluate Dot's CLE numbers because he's played too many minutes and out of position as starting PG while Cavs have had lots of G injuries.

I'm glad Bollocks is back for the continuity and steady play.  Last year was a rough time for him, and he seems like a good guy and hard worker.  I am concerned about his limited dribbling ability, which I don't recall being so pronounced last year.

But yeah, I was worried Burks might gun too much, and now I want him to shoot more open 2's when he is hesitating and passing for no gain.  Give him credit for trying to fit in (and when in doubt getting the ball to Uncle Julius).  I also like that in all but the last game Burks has gotten to the FT line.  A good way to get extra points when your shot is off, and making FT's can help a shooter get his shot on track.
Burks has played well on O, an hopefully will get the hang of the team D schemes.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 26, 2021, 10:51:18 AM
So far I agree with basically all Thibs lineup moves.
Mitch starting over Nawlins
Randle over Toppings
RJB
Bullocks over Burks/Knox
Elf over Quicks

Quick getting as many minutes as he can handle.

The defense has clear directives:

1. Fill the strong side on PnR's with everybody collapsing to crowd into the paint.
The wings need to close out quickly on weak side shooters when the ball gets rotated.
So it's RJB and Bollcoks (and Rivers) flying out on shooters, and Randle gets to stay at home down low.  Which helps Julius end possessions with rebounds, keeps him from picking up fouls and keeps him fresh for O.

2. Go over every screen and follow/trail the ballhandler.  This largely takes away simple open 3's resulting from screens.  But also players know what to do and what their teammate who gets screened will do.  It puts pressure on the ballhandler because NYK will collapse in front of him with his man trailing.  In concert with #1 above it mainly results in kicks to the weak side which our wings are expecting and ready to close out on.

There was a play in POR 3Q I think, where Knox skinnied himself and slithered around the pick, so Lillard dribbled back and reused the pick, and sure enough Knox went over the reused pick too.  I have seen little of guys running into and dying on picks, or going under picks.  I assume you do that and you're likely to get yanked and yelled at.

3. I like the Knix G's applying some fullcourt pressure.  This is mainly Quickly, but Elf as well.  You get a random steal now and then (such as Elf pickpocketing Lillard just over half court).  but it uses up the opp's PG energy and focus.  And it slows down the pace, so that your D is set and only has to defend for a shorter time.
I'm not sure if there is a pattern for when the Knix do this or if it's just a sometimes surprise.

The two areas where the D needs work:

1. transition D where we frequently lose guys completely, especially on the left side it seems.
It appears Thibs' transition D rule is to wall off the ballhandler in the center of the court.  But that's not effective if a guy goes unguarded on the side.

2. Man D where a quick player drives hard.  When it's not PnR and a player just beats his man, NYK doesn't have an opp to build a strong side wall, and only Mitch/Noah are credible help defenders in the paint.

But overall the Knix have been working hard on D, know what they are supposed to do, and slow down the game.
Title: Donovan Mitchell > Immanuel Quickley
Post by: chipstern on January 26, 2021, 01:23:26 PM
It occurs to me that for fucking ONCE, the Gods were looking over the Knicks. 

Could Quickley be our own version of Donovan Mitchell. 

DM listed as a SG, but really a combo guard.

IQ listed as a PG, but really a combo guard. 

DM is 24 years old, 6'0", 215 pounds.   

IQ is 21 years old, 6'3", 190 pounds. 

Both excellent on and off the ball, deadly 3-pt shooters, and superb FT shooters. 

Okay, DM is in his fourth season, and IQ has a long ways to go in terms of production and consistency to be in that discussion, my own enthusiasm notwithstanding. 

But thinking about tonight's game, the DM/IQ connection occurred to me. 

Think I'm crazy? 

Oh, PS: Says here that Shaq and Sir Charles are really dickish in their pisstakes on DM.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 26, 2021, 05:34:39 PM
Heh

Just checked in with HoopsHype and saw the funniest headline

MVP race - Donovan Mitchell enters the picture.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 26, 2021, 06:20:59 PM
Knicks have inquired about D Rose

https://www.radio.com/wfan/sports/knicks/derrick-rose-has-two-early-suitors-on-the-trade-market
Title: Obvious move of two ending deals
Post by: Kam on January 26, 2021, 07:30:03 PM
Frank Ntilikina to the rebuilding Pistons who will decide what he is worth in free agency for Derrick Rose. 

Make the move now so the Knicks have time to deal Payton to a playoff team seeking backcourt depth.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 26, 2021, 09:18:49 PM
We have to outbid the Clippers.

So that's your offer?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 26, 2021, 09:31:07 PM
Since we are losing at least 2 backcourt guys next year - maybe taking on Rodney McGruder's 5+ mil for 21-22 helps Pistons - and may be something Clippers wont do.

Rose and McGruder combined make about 13 mil

DET took McGruder as part of the Kennard deal where they got back Saddiq Bey as the key piece (3=way with Nets, LAC).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 26, 2021, 09:34:41 PM
DET

https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/DET.html

NY

https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/NYK.html

payrolls

Knox/McGruder is a match in $ and years

So Knox/Ntlikina makes some sense for DET if we add a pick

Ge tback Derrick and Rodney
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 26, 2021, 10:10:22 PM
Austin Rivers is the man!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 26, 2021, 10:47:57 PM
We offer NOTHING for Rose

*** been there, done that, no thanks

**** Well if Elf is part of the deal we are ALL OVER IT
Title: Waste
Post by: Kam on January 26, 2021, 10:51:43 PM
Why call a time-out with 2.4 left on the 3rd to draw up that play?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 26, 2021, 10:54:42 PM
Put a tent over this (early 4th quarter) circus.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 26, 2021, 11:07:16 PM
No knock on Thibs...

OK, it is...
if Rivers is 10-10 at halftime why does he sit so long in the 3rd?

Why wouldnt you just have the guy on the court at 12:00 mark, see if he could carry the load for the night?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 26, 2021, 11:25:46 PM
Because as he showed when he checked back in, he can’t.

I’m right back where I want to be, in 9th.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 27, 2021, 02:14:51 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 26, 2021, 11:07:16 PM
No knock on Thibs...

OK, it is...
if Rivers is 10-10 at halftime why does he sit so long in the 3rd?

Why wouldnt you just have the guy on the court at 12:00 mark, see if he could carry the load for the night?

Had a different response. Why was he pulled with 5 minutes (or something) to go in the first half. He was blazing! Unstoppable! Yes, he had three fouls. But was he really going to do an encore performance in the 2nd half? Definitely worth the risk.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 27, 2021, 02:45:31 AM
Funny, Au Revoir looked rather de-mojoed the past two games, coming off a groin strain.  A streaky player who can really cook when hot. 

Looks like real bad shooting form Burks, but he had the best +/- of any starter.
Quickly thudded back to earth.

So Mitch got killed by Rudy?

15 assists is pretty poor.
UTA only had 6 turnovers.
35 2nd half points for Los Knix.
Sounds like NYK were tired.

What's the overall read on the game?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 27, 2021, 09:10:20 AM
Tired.  Yes.

Just fell apart.

I only saw from 81-78 on.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 27, 2021, 02:13:17 PM
I've been thinking about Robinson's play on offense. Sometime's it's fabulous with lots of picks and rolls and followup dunks.

But sometimes — with certain matchups? — he sort of disappears. His role seems extremely limited/constricted and he's not effective.

So I was interested in seeing this article in the Post suggesting that he wants more:

https://nypost.com/2021/01/27/new-york-knicks-mitchell-robinsons-deleted-tweet-could-be-trouble/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 27, 2021, 02:18:11 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 27, 2021, 02:45:31 AM


What's the overall read on the game?

Dominant first half.  Somnabulant second half.  Never saw such sloppy ball handling.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 27, 2021, 05:51:41 PM
On a side note, while the Jazz got us good, it cost them Mitchell and Favors who are currently on the injured list with concussion protocol and bad back respectively.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 27, 2021, 08:33:08 PM
That's B2B games Knix concussed someone.

I couldn't get a good replay going, so only wacthed the 1st half.  Knix won!

RJB v IND: 25.5 Pts per  63% FG   87% on 3's

AuRivers v UTA: 24 PPG  68% FG   71% on 3's
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 27, 2021, 08:48:46 PM
I think the first 3 Rivers missed was a heave from beyond halfcourt at the buzzer. 

He started the game 10 for 10 and 5 for 5 from distance.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 27, 2021, 09:57:57 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 27, 2021, 08:33:08 PM
That's B2B games Knix concussed someone.

I couldn't get a good replay going, so only wacthed the 1st half.  Knix won!

RJB v IND: 25.5 Pts per  63% FG   87% on 3's

AuRivers v UTA: 24 PPG  68% FG   71% on 3's

In each case a split so far if I’m not mistaken.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 27, 2021, 10:00:18 PM
The odd thing is aside from everything he shot going in, Rivers didn't look particularly sharp.  He slipped before one drive.  Dribbled behind his back, lost the ball and retrieved it before a 3.  Got called for traveling

I noticed UTA was stopping RJB's from going left, especially 1Q.
Clyde often wonders why teams don't take away RJB's left.
UTA was on that.

Nets announcers have really become homers and apologists for anything the Big 3 does wrong.   They used to be quite good, but things have gone downhill.  Everything the Big 3 does gets hyper-praise.  Yuck.

Bruce Brown being a 4Q hero for BKY.
ATL playing well.  But tied game 1:10 left and Reddish clanks a 3.  Yuck.
Then on the next play a Harden drive, Reddish doesn't notice Jeff Green cutting.
But then Reddish makes an awkward shot on a drive to tie it again.
Why it was all Reddish in the last minute I dont know.
He is pretty erratic.  Doesn't have a good feel for the game yet.  But can make some plays.

OT (after a Harden step back miss)
 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 27, 2021, 10:30:37 PM
2nd night of a B2B, no Donovan Mitch and UTA is stomping DAL, up 20 early 3Q.
KZ with a -26 in 17 mins.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 27, 2021, 10:58:34 PM
RJ Barrett over his last 8 games:
19 PPG
6 RPG
3 APG
51% FG Shooting
48% 3PT Shooting
83% FT Shooting
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 27, 2021, 11:11:45 PM
yep

good player
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 28, 2021, 11:53:34 AM
1st half, Utah announcer Thurl Bailey was perplexed that Utah was missing open 3's, while acknowledging Knix were allowing the lowest
opponent 3-Pt %.  I felt the same way early in the season, when teams such as ATl and IND were getting good looks but missing them v. NYK.
I came to the conclusion that the Knix are playing good physical D and preventing the other team from getting into a rhythm and flow.
By mucking up the offense and creating a choppy game, shooters weren't getting comfortable.  Also, Knix go over every screen so the other team
doesn't get easy no-effort 3's.   Also the closeouts by RJB and Bollocks have been good, without fouling and rarely getting blown by.
.  With Burks and Rivers, the closeouts are not as rapid, with Burks tending at times to get caught up with Bigs in the paint.
2nd half in UTA Burks gave up consecutive open 3's, including one where he got tangled up down low and Bogdanovich in the corner had no one within
15 feet.

2nd half, Utah got better offensive flow and started making their 3's.  Partly late closeouts by Rivers and Burks.  Good spacing and ball movement.
One nice play, a drive was kicked to the left corner, and when the close out came, the pass went to the top of the arc instead of the nearby elbow, where a Knick defender expected and started scrambling to.
Another Quinn adjustment was to have 4 shooters around Gobert with Niang at PF, so Randle had to guard a perimeter shooter.
Niang went 3-6 on 3's in 13 mins.

As for Knick 2nd half offense.  Quickly was really off.  And Au Revoir couldn't recapture the 1st half magic.
Quick/Burks/Elf combined 0-13 on 3's.  Rough outing for Burks and Quix.
A 62-35 2nd half.

Randle and RJBee with solid heavy minute games.
Rolls Royce O'Neal played a fierce game.
Gobert dominated (& O-boards and 4 Blocks) though he did miss 4 putbacks and a 5 foot shot.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 28, 2021, 11:58:35 AM
Harthorne Wingo, fan favorite on 1973 New York Knicks title team, dies at age 73 (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/30782940/harthorne-wingo-fan-favorite-1973-new-york-knicks-title-team-dies-age-73)

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/26/sports/Harthorne-wingo-dead.html

The quintessential last man on the bench fan favorite.
Also one of the few who made the leap from Ruckers to the pros.
Title: Your New York Blazers
Post by: carlos123 on January 28, 2021, 09:55:39 PM
Both Melo (+9 in 38 mins.) and Enes (-1 in 33 mins.) starting for Blazers.
Too bad they lost 101-104.

Melo with only 6 points, but 9 rebounds, 1 assist, 2 steals and 1 block.
Enes with 13 points, 13 rebounds, 2 assists, 1 steal and 2 blocks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 28, 2021, 10:44:21 PM
We should've gotten more from the Tim Hardaway trade. : )
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 28, 2021, 10:57:51 PM
I saw much of the 2nd half and Melo was kind of a horror show.
3Q Melo tries to drive, sort of loses the handle, gets it back and is triple teamed. 
I'm not sure if it was a shot or pass Melo tried, but it was certainly a turnover. 
Blazers come down the court, Melo's man blows right by him, gets met near the rim and passes out.
Melo spins around looking for who he should switch to, and is way late closing out on a straightaway 3. 
So late in fact he merely jogged towards the guy with his hand raised.

Melo clanked some 3's.  And when he finally beat his man on a drive, Melo missed the layup, got his own bound
and missed another layup.  Finished 3-15 (0-4 on 3's).  Didn't make a FG in the 2nd half of a tight game.

It was a game of huge runs.  POR up 18 in the 1Q.  Then down 3 at the half.
Trent was 0-4 on 3's in the 1st half, then killed it 7-9 on 3's 2nd half.

Simons has come on and been hot from 3-land (41% on the season). 
But he's a decided no-assist guy.  One 3-2 fast break, Simons pushed the ball hard and then both ran over the man in front of him and threw the pass away (too high and hard of Melo's hands). 
Basically was lucky to just get the turnover and not an O-foul on that. 
Oddly, POR doesn't actually have a backup PG on the roster, so Simons really needs to move the ball more.
How can you not have a backup PG?
Has 9 assists on the season in 13 games.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 29, 2021, 08:36:25 PM
27-9 run to end the half

9-11 record wouldnt be so bad
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 29, 2021, 08:46:36 PM
Ugly game, but Knix got going in the 2Q.

Cavs with a 33 point 1st half.
Look terrible.  Drummond and Garland sluggish and ineffective.
Okoro afraid to shoot.
Windler has been shooting well since returning, but goodness his slow-footed D looks terrible.  AuRevoir just blowing by Wind at will.  Also chumped Windler on a rebound.  Windler's D looks untenable.  And one play Windler was dribbling, Elf twice nearly knocked away the ball, then Nawlins came over and knocked it out of bounds.  So I'm not convinced Windler can dribble either.  Dylan better shoot lights out with those glaring weaknesses.  Where's Dotson??

RJB and Rivers playing well.
Randle quiet, which should be a good sign for the 2nd half.
Bounceback game from Mitch.  Elf defending well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 29, 2021, 09:53:31 PM
Tough and active defense once again. This new norm is pretty cool.

On the offense, this was Quickley's game. He was the difference. Has a knack for making shots when we need them.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 29, 2021, 09:55:39 PM
Cavs looked like a different team. Drummond was dominant before — nothing tonight. And no idea why Dotson wasn't playing.
Title: turrible...just turrible
Post by: lesterluv on January 29, 2021, 10:07:29 PM
If Elfrid Payton starts another NBA game after the first 6 minutes of each half tonight it will be a ....

crime against humanity



* the team had FIVE points when he checked out in the first at 4"47!
** a FOURTEEN point lead was down to FIVE when he checked out in the third at 5"31!

Even Thibs' eyeballs will start to bleed soon....

*** btw, when is orange sperm guzzler gonna post those PG pers again? a promise is a promise! nightly means nightly!

*** the Nets score 147 in regulation W/O Durant!!! Yow!!
Title: Quickley owns Qeveland
Post by: Kam on January 29, 2021, 10:42:14 PM
Against the Cleveland Cavs, a team that plays their home games at an arena dubbed "the Q", Knicks guard Immanuel "IQ" Quickley has thrived.

In 2 regular season games vs the Cavs...

23/5/4 in 28 minutes on Jan15 on 9 for 17 shooting
25/5/3  in 25 minutes on Jan29 on 9 for 17 shooting

Also shooting 8 of 15 from 3pt land and 4 for 4 from the FT line over those two contests
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 29, 2021, 10:55:11 PM
Why would the Knix be interested in Rose?
Quickly just as dynamic and has a 3-ball.
Rose isn't much on D.

Is it just Thibs penchant for getting the old gang back together?
(his last year in Mini, Thibs had Butler, Rose, Taj and Deng)
maybe we can reconcile with Noah?

What would NYK give up for Rose?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 29, 2021, 11:01:52 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 29, 2021, 10:55:11 PM
Why would the Knix be interested in Rose?

No reason whatsoever
 
Quote
What would NYK give up for Rose?

ELFRID!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 29, 2021, 11:36:37 PM
Why would Detroit trade a veteran in Rose for a worse veteran in Elfrid?  At least give them Dennis or Frank so they can close their eyes and imagine potential.
Title: Thibs
Post by: carlos123 on January 29, 2021, 11:40:25 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 29, 2021, 10:55:11 PM
Why would the Knix be interested in Rose?
Quickly just as dynamic and has a 3-ball.
Rose isn't much on D.

Is it just Thibs penchant for getting the old gang back together?
(his last year in Mini, Thibs had Butler, Rose, Taj and Deng)
maybe we can reconcile with Noah?

What would NYK give up for Rose?

I’m with BoZ (and with my doggie) on this one.
D. Rose to Knicks don’t make no sense at all for Knicks.
And Thibs penchant for getting the old gang together seems to be the only “reason” for this crazy move. Also, one of the reasons he lost his job with Minny, after losing Butler too.

PS. Kamster, I don’t think Detroit would want Dennis either.
Title: Re: Quickley owns Qeveland
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 30, 2021, 12:31:38 AM
Quote from: Kam on January 29, 2021, 10:42:14 PM
Against the Cleveland Cavs, a team that plays their home games at an arena dubbed "the Q", Knicks guard Immanuel "IQ" Quickley has thrived.

In 2 regular season games vs the Cavs...

23/5/4 in 28 minutes on Jan15 on 9 for 17 shooting
25/5/3  in 25 minutes on Jan29 on 9 for 17 shooting

Also shooting 8 of 15 from 3pt land and 4 for 4 from the FT line over those two contests

When Quicks gets going its incredible to watch

But this vs the midget backcourt, as you spell out
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 30, 2021, 12:35:15 AM
What would NYK give up for Rose?


Discussed earlier

I think we were at Frank and Knox plus a pick for Rose and McGruder

Likely not enough - we are bidding against LAC at least
Title: D. Rose
Post by: carlos123 on January 30, 2021, 01:21:07 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 30, 2021, 12:35:15 AM
What would NYK give up for Rose?


Discussed earlier

I think we were at Frank and Knox plus a pick for Rose and McGruder

Likely not enough - we are bidding against LAC at least

Frank and Knox without the pick would be ok. Rose would be fine as a third string PG.

On the other hand, just as good or better if LAC wins the bidding.

If the pick is a 2030, or later, second rounder, that’s ok too 😉
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 30, 2021, 01:27:29 AM
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-IG8Y49tn0fI/YBT7yd5ISeI/AAAAAAAAFO4/J50GMmCjq8sXmwo17bnGK8QfJQoO1wX-wCLcBGAsYHQ/w400-h301/Screen%2BShot%2B2021-01-30%2Bat%2B1.24.35%2BAM.png)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 30, 2021, 06:04:33 AM
I guess I would trade Franc and a 2nd rounder for Rose, if I wanted Rose at all.
Any kind of 1st rounder would be demented.  DRose is 32, misses a lot of games, is an iffy defender and poor 3-baller.  If we're going to bring in a vet PG, it needs to be someone who can hit from outside.

At this stage of Knick reconstruction, it seems awfully myopic to cash in Yute for a creaky vet. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 30, 2021, 06:21:21 AM
That would be cool.

I think the lineup we try to build to and may ultimately start, if no deals are done, is

IQ RJ Burks Randle and a center. I think this lineup can work with Mitch, Noel, and probably Taj with fairly similar results, but the most upside in Mitch and the most pace in Noel which is why they are one and two.

Mitch Noel Taj
Randle Obi
RJ Bullock Knox Iggy
Burks Frank DSJ
IQ Rivers Payton

Elf & Taj are two physical vets to stick in for break glass situations. We won’t see Kevin, Dennis, or Iggy much. Of the second unit guys, Noel, Obi, Reggie, Frank, and Rivs, Noel and Rivers can count on big regular run with the other three seeing their time fluctuate with situations and Thibs’ gut.

I’d inquire if there is interest in Payton, DSJ, Knox, and Iggy either alone or grouped. With the way our front office parlayed both our late pick and Ed Davis, I’m happy with them putting those small chips on the table now. The top ten guys are the ones not to mess with as they can function or show promise of functioning in this new Knicks system. Of the four, Knox is the one to show most patience with as he’s built the most current value.

Dennis, Iggy, and Elf together make about ten mil, meaning they’re swappable for 7.5-13.3 ish million in contract.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 30, 2021, 06:42:35 AM
Taurean Prince, Tony Snell, and Lonzo fit those dollars. Zo seems to be playing his way into staying or at least requiring valuable picks to pry free. Exum is a cheaper option. The one I like best is Ariza, who the thunder seem to be doing OK without.

We send them Knox and their choice of Payton or Smith saving them 2 or 3 mil this year for Trevor and they agree to let us crunch two future seconds into a first in some future draft. If they let the guard go they can get a look at Knox who has two more years of team control as he’s coming into his own. He’s young and has shown tools, but there doesn’t seem to be a reasonable path to him earning a major role here anytime soon.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 30, 2021, 10:26:56 AM
Nice job wth the draft simulator, Kam - reminding us the Mavs pick for '21 is UNPROTECTED thus we get it no matter where it lands


This guy gives Knicks a D- in the deal

https://thesmokingcuban.com/2021/01/27/dallas-mavericks-regrade-kristaps-porzingis-trade/3/



Yet not all agree




My colleague Brad Dressler over at Daily Knicks argued recently that the Knicks won this trade. His case is Kristaps Porzingis’ injuries make him not worthy of a max contract. The Mavericks made the playoff last season and gave the Clippers all they could handle with KP in the lineup in the first round. It was a poorly timed injury, but one that is unlikely to repeat. The Knicks were not even one of the 22 teams invited to the bubble

Full Dressler piece


https://dailyknicks.com/2021/01/23/knicks-mavericks-already-lost-porzingis-trade/


Should be interesting seeing what we get if we keep the picks or if we deal one or the other/both

But even if Dallas and Knicks swap places - and we get a top tenish (OUR PICK) plus a 15 in 2021 and 2022 (2 Dallas pick seeing as they arent making any headway), seems we can make that deal look a wee bit better than D-

Getting something for Smith is also gravy - if it does occur - and we can go back and unwind what we got, if anything - in using the Hardaway cap space which went to Mavs.

Have a good Saturday, all.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 30, 2021, 10:36:41 AM
At this stage of Knick reconstruction, it seems awfully myopic to cash in Yute for a creaky vet.


Well, sure, Bo.

This is why deals get done further into the season, when dealers/dealees know more of their lot in the standings -

if Knicks are a lost cause likely there is no Rose chatter.

When is that deadline again?  Not soon, right?  For now we dont even know if Derrick holds up healthwise -

Re:  how it would affect NY rotation - I'd think Quickley wouldnt be bothered too much with a minutes decrease - looking more at Rose/Payton swap of PT.  Maybe Elf even going in the deal to help mentor K Hayes.

In other PG news, how about runmors Ball is to be dealt - followed by a breakout points game by Lonzo?  Was the player sending a message or did they call more plays for LB to get his value up?  Hmmmm.........

Thinking is they want Kira Lewis to play.

I have zero idea what type guy Lonzo is within the locker room of a team with young stars - and if this has had an effect on  New O's thought process on the player.  I just think they should give him the team to actually run before making a determination

Like when he did this:


Min   FG   3PT   Reb   Ast   Pts
Lonzo Ball   35   10-20   7-13   3   8   27

NEW ORLEANS      131
MILWAUKEE          126
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: zupzup2 on January 30, 2021, 12:20:42 PM
I'm enjoying this: Randle is better moving LJ with a sprinkle of Mase fearlessness, and RBJ is a bright eyed, well composed Spree, and IQ, well he might be a new prototype for us.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on January 30, 2021, 12:26:18 PM
really nice game...once they settled down after the post-west coast blues they played a nice game with real control....what a fucking pleasure to watch, and yes NBA coaching counts - in a big way...

As for rose....just not sure of the point...unless they can trade Payton, but even then the bloom is long off this rose...hard bounce pass...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 30, 2021, 02:27:51 PM
Not surprisingly, WISEMAN takes over as top rookie

https://www.nba.com/news/kia-rookie-ladder-jan-27-2021-edition

Quickley SIXTH - but this was 5 days ago - so he may move up to 4th or so....

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 30, 2021, 02:38:39 PM
Program note:

Lakers-Celtics  ABC  830 PM

Celts have their starting five intact, finally.  Lakers may be without AD again - Kyle Kuzma filling in as they go small.

Teams split 2 games last year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 30, 2021, 09:20:12 PM
http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2021/1/30/22258083/report-dennis-smith-jr-asks-knicks-to-send-him-to-the-g-league-bubble (http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2021/1/30/22258083/report-dennis-smith-jr-asks-knicks-to-send-him-to-the-g-league-bubble)

Good degree of self awareness, DSJ.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 30, 2021, 09:55:27 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 30, 2021, 09:20:12 PM
http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2021/1/30/22258083/report-dennis-smith-jr-asks-knicks-to-send-him-to-the-g-league-bubble (http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2021/1/30/22258083/report-dennis-smith-jr-asks-knicks-to-send-him-to-the-g-league-bubble)

Good degree of self awareness, DSJ.

No downside to this move unless Payton and IQ both miss time.  And a chance to pump his value up with a good showcase in feb for the mid march deadline.
Title: DoubleBTC.WIN - Double your bitcoin in 24 hours
Post by: MichealPlund on January 30, 2021, 10:29:01 PM
 
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Title: Your New York Blazers
Post by: carlos123 on January 30, 2021, 11:15:03 PM
Enes impressive again, 22 and 11 for +17 in 34 minutes.
Melo did poorly.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 31, 2021, 12:08:50 AM
Mavs & Pels both caught losses.
Title: Mavs & Pels
Post by: carlos123 on January 31, 2021, 12:51:38 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 31, 2021, 12:08:50 AM
Mavs & Pels both caught losses.

KP not playing again. What’s wrong with him now?

Like the Kamster used to say when he was wiser, KP tosses salads in Dallas.

On the whole, I’d rather have Julius 😉
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 31, 2021, 02:33:01 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 31, 2021, 12:08:50 AM
Mavs & Pels both caught losses.

(https://i.redd.it/c2jh2rw7lje61.png)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 31, 2021, 03:41:58 AM
I only root against them like they were the cowboys in years they owe us an unprotected first round pick.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 31, 2021, 06:59:54 AM
Lakes-Celts game was a lot of fun.
LeBJ fell down with 40 secs left after his travelling wasn't called.  Goofy turnover.
Both teams with enough endgame mistakes.
 
Finally, Kemba makes a terrific defensive play to strip AD, Caruso makes a great hustle play to get back, and Kemba can't make a fairly easy shot for the W.  Kemba with a rough shooting night, but I thought Shroeder's dumb foul a minute earlier might get Kemba going after making 2 FT's.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on January 31, 2021, 07:31:57 AM
Very weird how Bo picks every nit on LBJ.
Title: Draft Board
Post by: chipstern on January 31, 2021, 11:44:14 AM
While I wish no ill will nor bad health to Kristaps Porzingis, I'd be one lying motherfucker if I said I didn't look very carefully at the box scores every day.  KP is a significant talent, but he cannot seem to stay on the court. 

Assessing the Phil Jackson Regime with that of Leon Rose & Company, well. 

OUR own #2 pick for this season goes to the Sixers, based upon an absurd transaction Phool Jackoff made in 2015, where as I recall our future #2 was conveyed in exchange for someone basically eating a contract we wanted to get rid of. 

From 2022 on we retain control of all of our #1 and #2 picks. 

In 2023, besides possessing our own #1 & 2 picks, we have Dallas 2023 #1 pick [1-10 protected], Detroit's second rounder, and Utah's second rounder. 

In any event. 

In 2021, the Knicks have their own #1 and Dallas' #1, unprotected. 

In 2021 we also have Detroit's #2 and Charlotte's #2. 

Among the 1-through-14 teams currently under .500 one quarter of the way into the season, and presently in the draft lottery with the top sub-.500 teams on the cusp of the playoffs? 

Wizards 3-12
Timberwolves 4-12
Pistons 5-15
Heat/Raptors 7-12
Pelicans/Bulls 7-11
Mavericks/Magic 8-12
Kings 8-11
Thunder 8-10
Knicks/Hornets 9-11
Cavs 9-10
Rockets 9-9

The 2020 draft was purported to be weak, yet some significant talent has come through both at the bottom of the first round and on in to the second round. 

The 2021 Draft is projected to be one of the strongest arrays of talent in recene memory. 

As presently aligned, pre-ping pong balls, the Mavs & Magic are presently tied for the 8-9 seed, while the Knicks are tied with the Hornets for the 12-13 seeds. 

As things stand now, the Knicks are looking at a pair of mid-first rounders, and the first pick in the second round. 

AND THAT CLASS, IS WHY YOU DO NOT PISS AWAY DRAFT PICKS. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 31, 2021, 12:10:25 PM
So to sum up...

We have 2 #2 picks this year, a season after we didn't even WANT our final second rounder and CHIP is moaning that Phil Jax dealt ours to create cap space.

As you were, all.
Title: Addendum
Post by: chipstern on January 31, 2021, 12:16:46 PM
Through the machinations of successive administrations, the Sixers ended up owning the Knicks #2 picks in 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021. 

October 27, 2014
Traded Travis Outlaw, a 2018 2nd round draft pick (Isaac Bonga was later selected) and a 2019 2nd round draft pick (Nicolas Claxton was later selected) to the Philadelphia 76ers for Arnett Moultrie. (Right to swap second-round picks)

Waived Arnett Moultrie 

January 5, 2015
As part of a 3-team trade, the New York Knicks traded Iman Shumpert and J.R. Smith to the Cleveland Cavaliers; the Cleveland Cavaliers traded Lou Amundson, Alex Kirk and a 2019 2nd round draft pick (Carsen Edwards was later selected) to the New York Knicks; the Cleveland Cavaliers traded Dion Waiters to the Oklahoma City Thunder; the Oklahoma City Thunder traded a 2016 1st round draft pick (Furkan Korkmaz was later selected) to the Cleveland Cavaliers; and the Oklahoma City Thunder traded Lance Thomas to the New York Knicks.

Waived Samuel Dalembert
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 31, 2021, 12:17:00 PM
Looking at the records Senor Stern posted seems there are really just THREE abysmal teams in the league - and 2 of them have an All League guy to navigate when we face them.

Real nice job with cap rules by the NBA, leading to a decent level of parity

Now if we can do something about a bought out player joining a team for free (see Drummond to Nets) it can only be better.  A limit to Tier 1 player adds in a particular off-season would also be cool, preventing a player bundle from leaping to desired destination and SUPERTEAMING with little pushback from other teams
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 31, 2021, 12:54:29 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on January 31, 2021, 07:31:57 AM
Very weird how Bo picks every nit on LBJ.

Did you see the game?
It's pretty glaring when you're up 3 with 50 secs left and a reset 14 sec clock, and your star player falls down untouched and loses the ball out of bounds with 40 secs left.  He wasn't even yet making a move, just doing his illegal imo "crab dribble."

Celt ball down 3 with 40 secs left.

Actually I didn't like the entire Lake possession.  Tatum cuts the lead to 3 with 1:09 left, and the Lakes use some clock and LBJ clanks a long 3.  I'd much rather a higher % shot, maybe something going to the hoop where you might get FT's or compromise the D.   But LBJ's heel of the rim miss kicks out and AD grabs the long rebound.  Seems JVG and Jax agree with me on the prior 3, as they start advising LBJ to attack.  Then he falls down and the ball trickles over the sideline in slo-mo.

Maybe LBJ is getting fatigued late in games.  He's amazing but also 36 in his 18th season.  Had 5 turns to 7 assists v. Celts in 37 mins.  In the previous game he only scored Two 2nd half points in a loss.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 31, 2021, 12:55:51 PM
Shump to the Netizens to shore up their Kyrie-Harden backcourt D.
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nets-to-sign-veteran-free-agent-guard-iman-shumpert-per-report/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 31, 2021, 01:35:05 PM
So..

getting back to draft talk -

do you think Knicks still target a lead guard - or with the emergence of Quickley and money to spend do we go "best player available" (BPA)?

I see a cat named DAVID DUKE (aplogies to Knicks 12 and some others) has risen to top ten status - point guard out of PROVIDENCE of all places.  He's a junior.

Other lead guards in top 20 -

Suggs (1 - Gonzaga)
Cuningham (4 - Ok State)

in first round

Dosunmu (22 - Illinois)
Nembhard (23 - TCU)
Jokubaitis (29 - Lithuainia)
Thomas (30 - LSU)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 31, 2021, 01:40:52 PM
Continuing re:  PG

CHRIS PAUL, who we seemingly passed on -

29 and 12 for the 10-8 Phoenix Suns

Are we set?

Interesting debate.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on January 31, 2021, 02:09:18 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 31, 2021, 12:54:29 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on January 31, 2021, 07:31:57 AM
Very weird how Bo picks every nit on LBJ.

Did you see the game?
It's pretty glaring when you're up 3 with 50 secs left and a reset 14 sec clock, and your star player falls down untouched and loses the ball out of bounds with 40 secs left.  He wasn't even yet making a move, just doing his illegal imo "crab dribble."

Celt ball down 3 with 40 secs left.

Actually I didn't like the entire Lake possession.  Tatum cuts the lead to 3 with 1:09 left, and the Lakes use some clock and LBJ clanks a long 3.  I'd much rather a higher % shot, maybe something going to the hoop where you might get FT's or compromise the D.   But LBJ's heel of the rim miss kicks out and AD grabs the long rebound.  Seems JVG and Jax agree with me on the prior 3, as they start advising LBJ to attack.  Then he falls down and the ball trickles over the sideline in slo-mo.

Maybe LBJ is getting fatigued late in games.  He's amazing but also 36 in his 18th season.  Had 5 turns to 7 assists v. Celts in 37 mins.  In the previous game he only scored Two 2nd half points in a loss.
Sure I did.  And it doesn't diminish my point.  You were nitpicking James 10 years ago.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 31, 2021, 02:11:25 PM
Knicks down 1 at the half.  Don’t like Julius Randle taking technical free throws.  Especially when I
IQ was on the court.  Knicks have played well.  In order to win Payton should not play much in the 2nd half.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 31, 2021, 02:12:36 PM
Entertaining half

So, of course we know opposing coaches make adjustments - but what else happens with Knicks second half shooting - or is it just my imagination that our percentages wain after the break?

Should we be starting the guys that had the best first half?

Should we go away from the norm of first team/second team minutes earlier than just deciding who finishes?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 31, 2021, 02:17:12 PM
Knicks are dead last in second half scoring (50.4)

We were 28th last year (51.8)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 31, 2021, 02:18:16 PM
That first half on offense was incredible.

After supporting all the dreck in past years, it's dizzying to watch the Knicks now and allow myself the pleasure of thinking....

Holy shit, they are actually becoming a good team.

Quickley, of course. But the idea that Randle and Barrett put the work in and made remarkable improvement over the last year is pretty inspiring.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 31, 2021, 02:24:07 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 31, 2021, 12:54:29 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on January 31, 2021, 07:31:57 AM
Very weird how Bo picks every nit on LBJ.

Did you see the game?
It's pretty glaring when you're up 3 with 50 secs left and a reset 14 sec clock, and your star player falls down untouched and loses the ball out of bounds with 40 secs left.  He wasn't even yet making a move, just doing his illegal imo "crab dribble."

Celt ball down 3 with 40 secs left.

Actually I didn't like the entire Lake possession.  Tatum cuts the lead to 3 with 1:09 left, and the Lakes use some clock and LBJ clanks a long 3.  I'd much rather a higher % shot, maybe something going to the hoop where you might get FT's or compromise the D.   But LBJ's heel of the rim miss kicks out and AD grabs the long rebound.  Seems JVG and Jax agree with me on the prior 3, as they start advising LBJ to attack.  Then he falls down and the ball trickles over the sideline in slo-mo.

Maybe LBJ is getting fatigued late in games.  He's amazing but also 36 in his 18th season.  Had 5 turns to 7 assists v. Celts in 37 mins.  In the previous game he only scored Two 2nd half points in a loss.

Just saw the final play(s)

Notable was James not running back on defense the final play - which basically led to the open Walker look.

AD also ignored an open 3 point shooter, up 1 with shot clock at 3 - preferring the tough contested look for himself.

LA dodged a bullet.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 31, 2021, 02:58:02 PM
Amazing how indispensable IQ  has become.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 31, 2021, 03:10:02 PM
Thibs should’ve brought Randle and RJ in two minutes sooner when it was still a 1-2 possession game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 31, 2021, 03:30:43 PM
Quicks with 25

But he came in with Knicks down 98-92

It is now 129-115
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 31, 2021, 03:34:08 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 31, 2021, 02:17:12 PM
Knicks are dead last in second half scoring (50.4)

We were 28th last year (51.8)

50 today

Oy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 31, 2021, 05:09:46 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EtFon9sXUAMejXe?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 31, 2021, 06:26:23 PM
Well alright

I loved the bit where Quicks makes the floater then Lou Dub comes back next possession with the same.

Great interactions all game between idol and devotee.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 31, 2021, 11:51:51 PM
CRAZY finish in the Nets/Wiz game.

Always a pleasure in seeing Brooklyn go down!


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 01, 2021, 04:28:03 AM
Yeah, and Beal needed to feel good about something.

Quickley and Burks need to start. Clearly Mitch, Randle, and RJ are our frontcourt of the present and near future. We need to put our best foot forward in the backcourt. Those two have the most respective scoring bags and complete games not to mention communication awareness and confidence of our guard options. Noel and Obi seem to have their roles carved out as reserves. Bullock joining them in the frontcourt keeps the floor spread and shores up second unit defense. This leaves Elf, Rivers, and Frank to fight over the backup guard roles. Kevin needs to go back to the lab and pickup the night-school habits if he wants to claim a regular role. An Elf-Rivers backcourt could be pretty effective against most second units, but an Elf-Frank backcourt would be tough to score on with Noel and Bullock on the floor to help.

Chicago doubleheader coming up.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 01, 2021, 04:33:39 AM
Quickley is great as a high usage guy in the 2nd unit.  The trick is being able to blend his game with the starters and still remain blazing hot with limited shots.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 01, 2021, 04:57:01 AM
I think you want as many guys who are a threat if open and are a threat off the catch. It helps if they can cover ground and body up effectively. I don’t think shot distribution will be a problem as everyone is trying to make appropriate plays up and down the roster. What we are likely to get is more single coverage for our main guns and less opponent zone.
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Title: They call our coach Mr. Thibs
Post by: bodiddley on February 01, 2021, 08:23:25 AM
Defense is our primary identity.
On D = Elf > Quicks + Bollocks > Burks
Randle & RJB are effective on D within Mr. Thibs' scheme.  Elf and Bullox help make it work.

And then you end up starting 4 guys who want the ball and need shots.
With Quickly & Burks both erratic scorers.
Reg and Elf are more consistent on both ends.
And then Quix would have to guard starting PG's.
And who scores on the 2nd unit of Elf-Rivers-Knox-Noel?

The RJB-Bullox pairing has worked well handling weak side defense.
The IQ-Rivers pairing has been vibrant.
Depending on the effectiveness of Reg and Elf in any given game, there are plenty of minutes for IQ, Burks and Rivers.

I don't see the benefit.
Imo, you downgrade both the starting 5 and the bench unit.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 01, 2021, 09:33:45 AM
I agree

By the way - no Knox, no Noel (Thibs used Taj) yesterday - not sure you saw that.

Knox played just 6 minutes each of the prior two games as well -

Yesterday was the first time in recent memory I recall seeing exact position splits of the 48

Payton-Quickley  21/27
Barrett-Rivers    31/17
Bullock-Burks     26/22
Randle-Toppin    35/13
Robinson-Gibson   30/18

By the way - sure was cool when we were talking about what to do with the Randle-Toppin minutes crunch.  Doesn't seem an issue now.  Achiuwa in a trade down a sad distant memory.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 01, 2021, 09:36:40 AM
NOEL - sore left groin yesterday

4th quarter hurt MY groin.
Title: Re: They call our coach Mr. Thibs
Post by: lesterluv on February 01, 2021, 10:00:22 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 01, 2021, 08:23:25 AM

Reg and Elf are more consistent on both ends.
And then Quix would have to guard starting PG's.


Lmao..you are confusing consistency with consistent AWFULNESS
and well-overstating Elf's defensive...er...prowess.

** Clyde was talking about it last night...Elf is so m'fn lucky there are no fans at MSG..would be a howling maelstrom, NY fans know hoops and ELF ain't anything resembling it.


*SPEAKING OF WHICH....where is the promised nightly POINT GUARD PER from rancid orange butternut licker????? Clue for his overdue reveal: Elf just about sank into single digits, down with DJ
Title: Sitcking With The Nit Picker
Post by: chipstern on February 01, 2021, 10:41:00 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 01, 2021, 08:23:25 AM
Defense is our primary identity.
On D = Elf > Quicks + Bollocks > Burks
Randle & RJB are effective on D within Mr. Thibs' scheme.  Elf and Bullox help make it work.

And then you end up starting 4 guys who want the ball and need shots.
With Quickly & Burks both erratic scorers.
Reg and Elf are more consistent on both ends.
And then Quix would have to guard starting PG's.
And who scores on the 2nd unit of Elf-Rivers-Knox-Noel?

The RJB-Bullox pairing has worked well handling weak side defense.
The IQ-Rivers pairing has been vibrant.
Depending on the effectiveness of Reg and Elf in any given game, there are plenty of minutes for IQ, Burks and Rivers.

I don't see the benefit.
Imo, you downgrade both the starting 5 and the bench unit.

It must be those Jewish Lasers from outer space, but I find myself agreeing with BoD. 

And THEY CALL HIM MISTER THIBS.

When IQ comes off the bench with the second unit, HE IS TO A GREATER DEGREE THE FOCUS OF THE OFFENSE. 

And in case some Knicks fans haven't noticed, THIBS Has Been Setting Up HIGH IQ To Succeed. 

I understand that on a more advanced contender, Elfrid would be valued as a backup PG.

I understand that many Knicks fans cannot fathom THIBS' trust in abiding with Elfrid. 

Defense. Stability. Experience.

Mike Miller and Thibs both turned to Elfrid in lieu of Dennis and Frank, in terms of a certain level of stability and consistency. 

In case no one has noticed, with the first unit, Elfrid fits well with both RJ and Julius, and it is interesting that the ball is often in THEIR HANDS, in terms of setting up the offense. 

For instance....

Last year, Elfrid 7.2 assists per game.  This season he is averaging 3.8 assists.   

Last year, Julius averaged 3.1 assists per game.  This season he is averaging [AVERAGING] 6.0 assists. 

Last year, RJ averaged 2.6 assists per game.  This season he is averaging 4.4 assists. 

So last season, between the three of them, 12.9 assists per game.  This season 13.2 assists. 

And among the improved stats both Julius and RJ have posted in terms of FG and FT%, I believe it is notable that Elfrid's FT% has risen from .570 last season to .711 this season [32-45], while such a stud muffin as Lonzo Ball, in similar minutes, is converting at a .583 clips [7-12].  Likewise, Elfrid's has converted 100-236 FG attempts, while Ball is 72-180.  And just to revisist assists, EP is averaging 3.8 assists, while Lonzo is averaging 4.8 assists. 

And yet there are Knicks fans as bloggers who would happily pony up a huge package of players and draft picks to trade for Lonzo. 

This is neither a pom pom gurl orgasm on behalf of Elfrid, nor a snarky dismissal of Lonzo. 

Just an attempt to put their games and what they bring to the floor in perspective [also worth ointing out as per assists per game, that much of the Pelicans offense runs through Brandon Ingram, averaging 4,7 assists] 

No, Elfrid Payton is not giving us what we would have gotten from a Chris Paul, but then, CP rejected the Knicks as an option regarding relocating his family to NYC and playing in an empty MSG. 

But Elfrid is surely giving us no less than such esteemed Easter Conference PGs as Kemba Walker and Jeff Teague. 

Let alone a muc revered talent such as Lonzo Ball. 

As per Quickley's growth curve this season, it would be interesting to track Immanuel's progress/stat lines [12.4, 2.2, 2.5, .938%] with those of LaMelo Ball [12.2, 5.9. 6.1, .755 FT%], who is clearly a better player than his brother, and a more gifted natural facilitator tha Immanuel. 

Anyway, I am rambling....what else is new. 

My point. 

Elfrid Payton is a more than adequate placeholder for Immanuel as he makes his first pass through the league.  And clearly, Thibs is putting his faith in IQ at crunch time, and it was surely gratifying to have no less an adversary than Paul Geroge speak so highly of IQ in terms of being FEARLESS.  So I mean, hey Knicks fans....

Patience
Title: Re: They call our coach Mr. Thibs
Post by: chipstern on February 01, 2021, 10:46:41 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on February 01, 2021, 10:00:22 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 01, 2021, 08:23:25 AM

Reg and Elf are more consistent on both ends.
And then Quix would have to guard starting PG's.


Lmao..you are confusing consistency with consistent AWFULNESS
and well-overstating Elf's defensive...er...prowess.

** Clyde was talking about it last night...Elf is so m'fn lucky there are no fans at MSG..would be a howling maelstrom, NY fans know hoops and ELF ain't anything resembling it.


*SPEAKING OF WHICH....where is the promised nightly POINT GUARD PER from rancid orange butternut licker????? Clue for his overdue reveal: Elf just about sank into single digits, down with DJ

BULLSHIT.  Passionate, funny bullshit, but bullshit nevertheless.

As per your COMPELLING ASSERTION that Knicks fans are unerring in their discernment of chicken salad and chicken shit, and that their boo birds are touched by God?

More BULLSHIT. 

I have a vivid and rather unpleasant memory of Bill Cartwright returning from a broken foot, and straightaway breaking it again, sitting on the bench, tears streaming across his face, as the boobirds contempt and disdained rained down upon him.  An enduring disgrace. 

So, while I rather fancy Dawg as a blogger, methinks I will stick with Tom Thibodeau as the coach. 
Title: Re: Sitcking With The Nit Picker
Post by: lesterluv on February 01, 2021, 10:53:26 AM
Quote from: chipstern on February 01, 2021, 10:41:00 AM

In case no one has noticed, with the first unit, Elfrid fits well with both RJ and Julius, and it is interesting that the ball is often in THEIR HANDS, in terms of setting up the offense.

Patience

We've noticed that Elf's role has effectively been reduced to doing almost nothing and bricking the occasional three pointer. That's good. Cuts down on turnovers, lol. Now imagine when that nothing is replaced by somebody who can, say, shoot a little bit...

open up the floor and let the sun shine in

Anyway, I wish him nothing but the best on his slow train to Istanbul and pray for his sake that the new Covid variant keeps MSG empty of fans through May.
Title: Laser Beams And Jewish Jump Shots
Post by: chipstern on February 01, 2021, 10:54:42 AM
Was watching the HBO documentary on the 1950 NIT & NCAA City College Of New York championship team, and working class admixture of Jewish and African-American talent, and the subsequent 1951 point shavinvg scandal which tainted CCNY, as well as LIU and the entire New York City Collegiate hoops juggernaut, which would never be quite the same. 

Anyway, it was interesting to observe some of the enduring traits of hoops we are again experiencing under Coach Thibs, and Assosciate Coaches Payne, Brayant and Woodson, in the Red Holzman trad of DEFENSE, Spacing, Player Motion/Moving Without The Ball  and CONSTANT/.CONSISTENT Ball Motion. 

One other thing struck me, and a light bulb went off, as regarding our throwback puppy from Kentucky. 

Is it just me, or does IQ's long range three ball suggest the old school two handed set shots of yore?   
Title: Re: Sitcking With The Nit Picker
Post by: chipstern on February 01, 2021, 10:56:49 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on February 01, 2021, 10:53:26 AM
Quote from: chipstern on February 01, 2021, 10:41:00 AM

In case no one has noticed, with the first unit, Elfrid fits well with both RJ and Julius, and it is interesting that the ball is often in THEIR HANDS, in terms of setting up the offense.

Patience

We've noticed that Elf's role has effectively been reduced to doing almost nothing and bricking the occasional three pointer. That's good. Cuts down on turnovers, lol. Now imagine when that nothing is replaced by somebody who can, say, shoot a little bit...

open up the floor and let the sun shine in

Anyway, I wish him nothing but the best on his slow train to Istanbul and pray for his sake that the new Covid variant keeps MSG empty of fans through May.

You are nothing if not reasoned and gracious. 

Meanwhile, funny that Thibs is so stubbornly resisting your call to harms, as he nurtures IQ, gets his feet wet, and posits EP Vs. IQ in practice.  Funny how well that has been working out, eh, Uncle Weatherbee. 
Title: Duly Noted
Post by: chipstern on February 01, 2021, 11:01:36 AM
(https://i0.wp.com/theknickswall.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/iqDef.jpg?resize=1280%2C640&ssl=1)

(https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/basketball-player-sid-tannenbaum-getting-off-a-twohanded-set-shot-25-picture-id926256760)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 01, 2021, 11:11:14 AM
Quote from: chipstern on February 01, 2021, 10:46:41 AM

BULLSHIT.  Passionate, funny bullshit, but bullshit nevertheless.

As per your COMPELLING ASSERTION that Knicks fans are unerring in their discernment of chicken salad and chicken shit, and that their boo birds are touched by God?

More BULLSHIT. 

I have a vivid and rather unpleasant memory of Bill Cartwright returning from a broken foot, and straightaway breaking it again, sitting on the bench, tears streaming across his face, as the boobirds contempt and disdained rained down upon him.  An enduring disgrace. 

So, while I rather fancy Dawg as a blogger, methinks I will stick with Tom Thibodeau as the coach.

Alright, alright, they don't ALWAYS GET IT RIGHT

but when they do..lol

I remember I took a good friend to her first Knick (and NBA) game ever.

Time comes for National Anthem. Some famous awful singer, I think it might have been Michael Bolton, mangled it...the howl was TREMENDOUS.

She was like...wow...tough crowd.


*** where's my gotdamn Point Guard PER, it's almost noon!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 01, 2021, 12:33:17 PM
I thought Noah's absence was HUGE yesterday.

He plays hard. Extremely active. Taj really can't fill those shoes.
Title: Re: Laser Beams And Jewish Jump Shots
Post by: elephant on February 01, 2021, 12:35:03 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 01, 2021, 10:54:42 AM

One other thing struck me, and a light bulb went off, as regarding our throwback puppy from Kentucky. 

Is it just me, or does IQ's long range three ball suggest the old school two handed set shots of yore?

Wow. Yes. You're right! It does look like that!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 01, 2021, 02:46:21 PM
Elfrid Payton is a more than adequate placeholder for Immanuel as he makes his first pass through the league.  And clearly, Thibs is putting his faith in IQ at crunch time, and it was surely gratifying to have no less an adversary than Paul Geroge speak so highly of IQ in terms of being FEARLESS.  So I mean, hey Knicks fans....


So I guess this is one vote for "Quickley is our starting PG under Thibs in time".

I like him moreso as a.......(excuse me)...........LOU WILLIAMS

I think we will be shopping in draft or after for our lead guy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 01, 2021, 03:01:12 PM
Always funny guys wanting to knock certain players and their skill sets

Let us not forget Elfrid Payton has seasons of .471 and .493 under his belt.  Currently at .424, not the .374ish that some posters' prose would have you believe

And thanks, Chip - for pointing out the .711 free throw clip of this year's Elfrid - clearly the .570 level from last year was an outlier if you look at his career.

.424

11.6 PPG

And while not playing full slates (28 minute average)

"HE CANT SHOOT, DAMMIT!"

Right.  He can score.  And at this year's level you cant just foul him late in the game and get away with it.
Title: Re: Duly Noted
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 01, 2021, 03:04:08 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 01, 2021, 11:01:36 AM


(https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/basketball-player-sid-tannenbaum-getting-off-a-twohanded-set-shot-25-picture-id926256760)

heh

How does he not block that?
Title: Westchester Big 3
Post by: Kam on February 01, 2021, 03:20:32 PM
NY_KnicksPR
@NY_KnicksPR

Knicks assign Ignas Brazdeikis and Dennis Smith Jr to the Westchester Knicks. Jared Harper is also joining the team’s active roster in Orlando.
Title: rofl.....
Post by: lesterluv on February 01, 2021, 04:12:04 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 01, 2021, 03:01:12 PM
Elfrid - clearly the .570 level from last year was an outlier if you look at his career.....

....... And at this year's level you cant just foul him late in the game and get away with it.

Outlier, lol...he has played six full seasons.

Half of them have FT%s in the fifties.

That ain't no outlier, son, that's half.

As for late game fouls, you don't even have to check that mf'er..just stare at him from around 10 feet away as you hang out near the paint waiting to help out on Randle or Barrett

Now where's my daily PER, boy.....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 01, 2021, 04:18:48 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 01, 2021, 12:33:17 PM
I thought Noah's absence was HUGE yesterday.

He plays hard. Extremely active. Taj really can't fill those shoes.

Yeah, Noel is a special player. The tandem with Mitch let’s us set up two really good defenses with radically different styles.

BPA straight through this upcoming draft. We could use two keepers.

Elf with the .268 hit rate from 3 and the recent penchant for egregious turnovers puts a little tarnish on his shine. He and the team have also recently had enormous trouble with second half starts.

Get well NN.

Burks is a shooting guard. Bullock is a small forward who can shoot. Both are solid vets who provide a lot on D.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 01, 2021, 04:58:12 PM
When Elfrid gets in the paint that puts pressure on the defense that is a positive.  He does this pretty well.  But he is not good at finishing.  The problem is Dennis Smith Jr isn't a good finisher and Frank doesn't get into the paint.  Frank has an opportunity to seize to take Elfrid's minutes because Frank is good at distributing and that's really all we are asking of Elfrid.  But Frank needs to show he can dribble penetrate.  Does he have that skill?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 01, 2021, 05:16:42 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 01, 2021, 04:58:12 PM
When Elfrid gets in the paint that puts pressure on the defense that is a positive.  He does this pretty well.  But he is not good at finishing.  The problem is Dennis Smith Jr isn't a good finisher and Frank doesn't get into the paint.  Frank has an opportunity to seize to take Elfrid's minutes because Frank is good at distributing and that's really all we are asking of Elfrid.  But Frank needs to show he can dribble penetrate.  Does he have that skill?

Kam, the main thing Framk needs to prove is that HE CAN STAY ON THE COURT. 

Over the years, it seems that every time he gets IT, and GETS into a good groove, he gets hurt. 

He was showing nice aggression this time out, before he got hurt. 
Title: Pharoah
Post by: chipstern on February 01, 2021, 05:25:38 PM
Send out a search party for Pharoah. 

We are long overdue for one of his in depth analytics. 

(https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/mcalesternews.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/a/83/a8323308-f3b6-53ce-b4a6-e4f6ffa430cb/5a9b9d371ce0f.image.jpg?resize=400%2C556)
Title: Ruff
Post by: chipstern on February 01, 2021, 05:31:52 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on February 01, 2021, 04:12:04 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 01, 2021, 03:01:12 PM
Elfrid - clearly the .570 level from last year was an outlier if you look at his career.....

....... And at this year's level you cant just foul him late in the game and get away with it.

Outlier, lol...he has played six full seasons.

Half of them have FT%s in the fifties.

That ain't no outlier, son, that's half.

As for late game fouls, you don't even have to check that mf'er..just stare at him from around 10 feet away as you hang out near the paint waiting to help out on Randle or Barrett

Now where's my daily PER, boy.....

(https://lumiere-a.akamaihd.net/v1/images/open-uri20150422-20810-11ypdyy_e1302dc0.jpeg?region=0,0,378,378)

(https://media2.giphy.com/media/l0ExqbRzq05DHIlJm/200w.gif?cid=82a1493b868uqb8xnqm3reqqxggp28kxbpyhs7hmnr0or52x&rid=200w.gif)

(https://media3.giphy.com/media/fukS8yBmpvGGk/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 01, 2021, 05:44:59 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 01, 2021, 05:16:42 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 01, 2021, 04:58:12 PM
When Elfrid gets in the paint that puts pressure on the defense that is a positive.  He does this pretty well.  But he is not good at finishing.  The problem is Dennis Smith Jr isn't a good finisher and Frank doesn't get into the paint.  Frank has an opportunity to seize to take Elfrid's minutes because Frank is good at distributing and that's really all we are asking of Elfrid.  But Frank needs to show he can dribble penetrate.  Does he have that skill?

Kam, the main thing Framk needs to prove is that HE CAN STAY ON THE COURT. 

Over the years, it seems that every time he gets IT, and GETS into a good groove, he gets hurt. 

He was showing nice aggression this time out, before he got hurt.

Yes.  But he's healthy now and can space the floor better than Elfrid and defend better too.  Why isn't he playing?  Thibs has no confidence in him. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 01, 2021, 06:47:32 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 01, 2021, 04:58:12 PM
When Elfrid gets in the paint that puts pressure on the defense that is a positive.  He does this pretty well.  But he is not good at finishing.  The problem is Dennis Smith Jr isn't a good finisher and Frank doesn't get into the paint.  Frank has an opportunity to seize to take Elfrid's minutes because Frank is good at distributing and that's really all we are asking of Elfrid.  But Frank needs to show he can dribble penetrate.  Does he have that skill?

I've been asking that for two years, and wondered why this wasn't a point of emphasis from previous coaches. I think Bo once pointed out how frequently he gave up the ball only a few steps past half court.

That said, he's got to be noticing from his sideline perch how often Quickley and Elfrid get into the paint. When (if?) Frank next gets into the game at the point, will we see something a little different from the past?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 01, 2021, 07:51:36 PM
When Elfrid gets in the paint that puts pressure on the defense that is a positive.  He does this pretty well.  But he is not good at finishing.  The problem is Dennis Smith Jr isn't a good finisher and Frank doesn't get into the paint.  Frank has an opportunity to seize to take Elfrid's minutes because Frank is good at distributing and that's really all we are asking of Elfrid.  But Frank needs to show he can dribble penetrate.  Does he have that skill?


Jeez - you really believe this?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 01, 2021, 09:21:41 PM
Of course he does you nit...anyone can grab them.

Elf's minutes are shrinking faster than Giulani's little chubby after Sascha Baron Cohen barged into the room.

Down to a new-low pro-rated 16, Thibs doesn't suffer from your IQ problem.

(as I typed that White blew by Elf like Elf was taking his ticket at the Loews multiplex)

BTW, where's my m'fn per?


*** that markkanen fellow seems to have gotten his game back ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 01, 2021, 09:34:06 PM
I have:
Franc as a poor distributor.
Elf as a pretty good finisher.
Burks as a below-average defender.


And Franc not only passes off 35 feet out, but he can't bring the ball up court under pressure into the center of the court.  He'll wind up way near a sideline limiting options.  Or he'll pass to Randle to bring it up court.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 01, 2021, 09:54:32 PM
Closed out the 3Q well.  An 8-2 NYK run.

Nix just 3-18 on 3's.
Mitch 6 O-boards.

4Q

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 01, 2021, 11:11:20 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 01, 2021, 09:34:06 PM
I have:

Elf as a pretty good finisher.


Really?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 01, 2021, 11:11:36 PM
https://twitter.com/CBSSportsHQ/status/1356049864384258052 (https://twitter.com/CBSSportsHQ/status/1356049864384258052)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 01, 2021, 11:12:28 PM
Well, 4Q looked like two mediocre teams battling sloppily.
Bulls went 3+ mins without a point mid-4Q, stuck on 91.
Lotta sloppy passes.  Good Knick pressure.
NYK didn't really take advantage.

No one was rolling for NYK.
Even when Nix tied it, it was on a quick jack by Burks which rattled in.

Uncle Julius was trying to force the issue and make passes as well.
Harder to do when you're around the 40 minute mark.
Mr. Thibs can't give another 5 Randle minutes to ObiT?
Seems like Randle is tired end of most games and commits turnovers late 4Q.
I'd like to see Randle's 4Q game log.

Knix had a miscommunication it looked between Randle and Noel with neither stepping out to guard Zach LeV on the game clinching shot.  Need to talk, but maybe if Randle wasn't gassed, he might have got there.  I didn't get a good replay to really see who should have rotated out.  Had the Bulls announcers for the 2nd half (not great, a bit goofy, but not homers), and they said, Oh-oh they left Zach wide open, before he went into his shooting motion.

I never heard of Gafford before.  Had a solid game.  Thad Young playing well.  And pretty funny in his post-game interview.
Odd that Coby White and Temple had CHI's best +/-, but both shot poorly.  White was pretty much useless until he nailed a last minute 3.

Bulls announcers kept talking about Bulls struggles to close out games.  And they were a mess much of the 4Q. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 01, 2021, 11:23:00 PM
MALIK MONK hits 9 threes, goes for 36

But yeah - Frank is better

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 01, 2021, 11:24:08 PM
Donovan Mitchell
@spidadmitchell

That boy quick is so tough!!
Title: At least the Mavs lost
Post by: Kam on February 01, 2021, 11:25:45 PM

by 1 point : D
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 02, 2021, 02:06:51 AM
Hoping the Mavs season spirals completely out of control.

Barrett misssed a couple of nice looks late that could have really helped.

Elf was complete garbage.

Let’s see if we can solve this by Wednesday.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 02, 2021, 04:14:33 AM
An RJB 3 doesn't worry any opponent.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 02, 2021, 04:30:18 AM
He’d been cooking over the last ten games or so. I hope he gets back on track for the rematch.
Title: Change
Post by: Jerrya on February 02, 2021, 07:58:15 AM
Maybe it's time for some changes:
1. Burks for Bullock:  Bullock not showing much anymore.  Shooting % is 100 pts lower than Burks.  We need scoring and some intensity.

2.  IQ time for Payton:  I get it he a good spark off the bench and Payton is serviceable but by not having him out there from the start usually digs us a deep hole that puts more pressure on IQ to jump start the team.  Ironically there might be less pressure on IQ as a starter than off the bench.  No longer will he be expected to spark us and get us out of a hole.  Also, Shooting % is again 100 pts. higher than Payton.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 02, 2021, 09:32:48 AM
Knix have been a good 1Q team.  Randle must be the 1Q MVP this year.  He almost always comes out smokin'.

From a quick glance it looks like the Knix were up after 1Q in 7 of the last 9 games.
Were down 5 to the Bulls last game, and 13 down to POR.
But also NYK had a 9 point lead after 1Q @ UTA, and up 11 @ BOS.

I didn't check what the score was when Elf exited and Quix entered.
But 1Q's the Knix tend to play quite well.  Usually a pretty solid offensive flow.  And some teams don't seem ready for our defensive energy and physicality

Seems 4Q we have often have problems and that's often with a lot of Quickly minutes.  But I think a good deal of the 4Q problem is Randle and RJB getting exhausted, bogging down the offense.
Title: Alan Hahn--TAKEAWAYS
Post by: chipstern on February 02, 2021, 10:16:28 AM
I follow Alan Hahn's FACEBOOK feed, and his commentary last night echoed a number of issues and concerns ot myself, Kam, Dawg and BoD, and his feelings about possible options vis a vis the upcoming trade feeding frenzy, and the price of making moves, vis a vis the short term and/or the long term. 

* I challenged him a couple of weeks ago vis a vis the narrative which held that we had to offload Randle to make room for Obi, which I characterized as snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.  He now speaks of Julius, RJ and IQ as our big three. 

* Hahn views our lack of three point shooting as the main thing holding us back from being a playoff team.  Wally Z. spoke of the frustration Julius feels as a facilitator, making plays, finding open men, who time and time and time again brick the trey, and how the mindset then becomes, WELL, I've got to do it all myself, which is understandably where turnovers come from. 

* As per Kam, Hahn was flabbergasted when in the third quarter, Thibs did not find a few minutes for Frank, as poorly as he felt Elfid was playing. 

* As per Dawg, while he does not demonize Payton on the Biblical level of evisceration as Lester, EP has pretty  much exhausted Hahn's patience.  What did we see last night, like 18 minutes from EP, and 30 from IQ.  The writing is pretty much on the wall, people.  Hahn was talking about how the clock has run out on Payton, and that the Knicks need to find a veteran PG of some sort to supplement IQ, pointing, ironically to the Stricland for Mo Cheeks trade, in which Mo was supposed to function as Mark Jackson's relief pitcher, though that surely went awry...I forget who our dipshit coach and GM were at that point.  Anyone?  Alas, the pickings are rather slim, though the names Rondo, Teague were raised, as was Rose, with little enthusiasm.  For the life of me, I cannot fathom why Frank does not get the opportunity to make a case for himself.  Well, I can fathom it, but Thibs is a rather stubborn fellow. 

* As per BoD, Hahn has pretty much run out of patience with Reggie Bullock, whom he regards as every inch the bust/failed signing that Elfrid is, and he wants to see what the front office is made of regarding getting a SF who can actually shoot threes and play a complete game, let alone a shooting guard who might be available and can nail the trey.  He raised the name of JJ Reddick, which was very interesting.  Does he not have an apartment in NYC?  NOTE: Hahn pointed out that OBI is NOT a three, though he might evolve along those lines over the next couple of years, though in the short term, not a chance, which of course echoes BoD's predilection for picking Deni Avdija or at the very least making a run at Bogdonavich. 

* As per the likes of JJ Reddick, and some infusion of talent, Hahn was VERY Snarky about OVERPAYING.  Several commentators raised the prospect of Zack Levine, which Hahn brushed off on a number of levels, not the least of which was the fit and THE COST.  "I'm not giving up draft picks for anyone not named BRADLEY BEAL."  RIGHT ON.  I like Zack myself, but agree with Hahn...that is a lateral move, not a significant improvement.  And as things stand right now, Knicks faithful, we could very well be looking at TWO LOTTERY PICKS, as Dallas is undergoing a significant meltdown, with Luka pissed and KP seemingly ambulatory only every third game.  Would I trade both of our 2021 picks for Beal?  Moot point.  The Wizards ain't trading him. 

It will be interesting to see how the Knicks and Coach Thibs come back on Wednesday. 

And if there is any market for the likes of Bullock, Knox, Smith, Ntilikina, Payton, Brazdeikis. 

PS: As oer Trader Vic, Facil, Kevin Knox for Malik Monk was floated, which makes some sense for both teams, but based on recent play, one would think that this ship has sailed.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 02, 2021, 10:22:44 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 02, 2021, 09:32:48 AM
Knix have been a good 1Q team.  Randle must be the 1Q MVP this year.  He almost always comes out smokin'.

From a quick glance it looks like the Knix were up after 1Q in 7 of the last 9 games.
Were down 5 to the Bulls last game, and 13 down to POR.
But also NYK had a 9 point lead after 1Q @ UTA, and up 11 @ BOS.

I didn't check what the score was when Elf exited and Quix entered.
But 1Q's the Knix tend to play quite well.  Usually a pretty solid offensive flow.  And some teams don't seem ready for our defensive energy and physicality

Seems 4Q we have often have problems and that's often with a lot of Quickly minutes.  But I think a good deal of the 4Q problem is Randle and RJB getting exhausted, bogging down the offense.

Yes, they are playing mucho minutes, but I disagree that they are BOGGING DOWN the offense. 

They ARE THE OFFENSE, and with no one on the team other than IQ to have consistently emerged as scoring, three point threats, RJ and JR both face intense, pitiless pressure to produce in the face of zones and double-triple teams, which also engenders fatigue.  IQ has been great, but he is still reaching for consistency, plus he is seeing serious attention from opposing defense. 

Can't ANYONE his the three with consistency?  Austin Rivers teases with his skill set, every few games having an absolutely unconscious moment. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 02, 2021, 10:55:44 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 02, 2021, 09:32:48 AM

I didn't check what the score was when Elf exited and Quix entered.
But 1Q's the Knix tend to play quite well.  Usually a pretty solid offensive flow.  And some teams don't seem ready for our defensive energy and physicality

Check the score..rofl


**** Where is my mf'n POINT GUARD PER ya coward douchebag mental midget, c'mon, you can do it, lol, lol, lol, lol,lol

** Kiid is guarding those PG PER #'s closer than Trump guarded his tax returns![/b]

We have got to get some shooting out there. Julius has come too far to regress. We don't want him to regress. Let's reward him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 02, 2021, 11:10:44 AM
Seems 4Q we have often have problems and that's often with a lot of Quickly minutes.  But I think a good deal of the 4Q problem is Randle and RJB getting exhausted, bogging down the offense.


Quickley is clearly deferring with that group out there

Down 3, last minute, Knicks ball.  I have NO CLUE what Thibs called or what Julius intended to do

Seems someone (may have been Quicks) was circling behind him as he moved through the lane awkwardly - maybe they were looking for a quick 2 or the kickout - prior to Jukius being triple teamed.  Spacing was horrible that play

I would say having a more experienced leader like Payton out there that possession would have helped - but we needed the chance at the Quickley 3.

Maybe have BOTH on the floor, with 2 other "snipers" (I use that term loosely) such as Burks and Bullock?

Just a mess at the end, sadly.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 02, 2021, 11:16:56 AM
How's that PG PER coming, hoss?

4 lines. 4 #'s.

You can do it, c'mon...:)

UNLEASH THE KRAKEN!!!!
Title: Re: Alan Hahn--TAKEAWAYS
Post by: lesterluv on February 02, 2021, 11:31:37 AM
Quote from: chipstern on February 02, 2021, 10:16:28 AM
Hahn was talking about how the clock has run out on Payton, and that the Knicks need to find a veteran PG of some sort to supplement IQ, pointing, ironically to the Stricland for Mo Cheeks trade, in which Mo was supposed to function as Mark Jackson's relief pitcher, though that surely went awry...I forget who our dipshit coach and GM were at that point. 

Coach was John MacLeod who I completely associate with the Suns and often forget about as a Knick, final coach of the pre-Riley era...now as for that GM?  Very hazy, very hazy those years.

Or? Was it Stu Jackson...damn I'm old, lol, that's like seven lifetimes ago


***** where's my POINT GUARD PER ya sissified foam-frothing imbecile?
Title: Re: Alan Hahn--TAKEAWAYS
Post by: chipstern on February 02, 2021, 12:45:09 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on February 02, 2021, 11:31:37 AM
Quote from: chipstern on February 02, 2021, 10:16:28 AM
Hahn was talking about how the clock has run out on Payton, and that the Knicks need to find a veteran PG of some sort to supplement IQ, pointing, ironically to the Stricland for Mo Cheeks trade, in which Mo was supposed to function as Mark Jackson's relief pitcher, though that surely went awry...I forget who our dipshit coach and GM were at that point. 

Coach was John MacLeod who I completely associate with the Suns and often forget about as a Knick, final coach of the pre-Riley era...now as for that GM?  Very hazy, very hazy those years.

Or? Was it Stu Jackson...damn I'm old, lol, that's like seven lifetimes ago


***** where's my POINT GUARD PER ya sissified foam-frothing imbecile?

Stu Jackson. followed by John McCLOD, who was GM Al Bianchi's homie, soon to be followed by the stormin' Mormon, Dave Checketts. 

I rememeber listening to the radio and that the Knicks had sent Strickland to SA.

I was literally screaming. 

WE GOT Sean ELLIOT, WE GOT Sean ELLIOT.

We got Moe Or Less Cheeks, as Bianchi and Jackson and McCLOD conspired to destroy Mark Jackson. 

30 years ago and I'm still pissed.

Right up there with any of the most moronic moves we ever made. 

Taking Jordan Hill over DeMar DeRozan or Jrue Holiday.   

Passing on Amare Stoudamire in the draft [Mark Jackson was BEGGING the Knicks to pick him] to convert that #1 pick and Marcus Camby into Antonio McDyess. 

Trading two lottery picks for Gerald Henderson and Juuwan Oldham. 

Picking Kenny Walker ahead of Ron Harper. 

Fill in your fave ______________________.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 02, 2021, 01:17:47 PM
I liked Walker

Pretty good Knick.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 02, 2021, 01:19:38 PM
First 4 years fg% for Walker

49
47
49
53
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 02, 2021, 01:46:16 PM
Yes, Walker was an excellent Knick.

Also, the earth is flat and the sky is a shield put up by the government to prevent individuals from seeing god.

Also, tomato juice & bleach enemas prevent covid.


***** Where's the f'n POINT GUARD PER? Four names, four numbers, g'head..stretch yerself!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 02, 2021, 03:39:15 PM
Elfrid is tenth on the team in PER, right behind Iggy and Obi and one spot ahead of Austin Rivers.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 02, 2021, 04:16:55 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 02, 2021, 02:06:51 AM
Hoping the Mavs season spirals completely out of control.


(https://preview.redd.it/ehwa8wlamze61.png?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=e6b92778ec022ba735b8e0c81557bcce267a2e05)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 02, 2021, 04:37:30 PM
Mavs should be fine if KP is really back

Finney-Smith also returning
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 02, 2021, 04:38:38 PM
https://www.reddit.com/r/Mavericks/comments/largyn/porzingis_hate_posts/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/Mavericks/comments/largyn/porzingis_hate_posts/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 02, 2021, 05:35:24 PM
All im saying is that this season is rough but we shouldn't be jumping on one player. This sub sometimes looks like a knicks sub with all this hatred.



Heh - to that last part
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 02, 2021, 05:38:34 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 02, 2021, 04:38:38 PM
https://www.reddit.com/r/Mavericks/comments/largyn/porzingis_hate_posts/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/Mavericks/comments/largyn/porzingis_hate_posts/)

KP played well last night. 

Dallas is somehow not cohering as a team. 

We shall see. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 02, 2021, 05:41:48 PM
Tomorrow at ATL but then 9 of the next ten at home for DALLAS

I call 7-3.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 02, 2021, 08:42:12 PM
Not sure this guy is worth his contract but.....

FRED VAN VLEET has made ELEVEN three pointers tonight

Oh yeah - and the game is in the third quarter.

heh
Title: Q&A
Post by: carlos123 on February 02, 2021, 10:45:40 PM
QUESTION:
- Why did God allow this to happen?
--- Andrew Cuomo -
... by Chamaco Cartero

ANSWER:
- Why did God allow Chamaco Cartero to happen?
--- Me and my doggie -
Title: Pictures
Post by: carlos123 on February 02, 2021, 10:47:47 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 02, 2021, 04:16:55 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 02, 2021, 02:06:51 AM
Hoping the Mavs season spirals completely out of control.


(https://preview.redd.it/ehwa8wlamze61.png?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=e6b92778ec022ba735b8e0c81557bcce267a2e05)

That you Kamster?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 02, 2021, 11:34:36 PM
Is the blonde lady me?

no.
Title: Huh?
Post by: carlos123 on February 03, 2021, 12:32:45 AM
Quote from: Kam on February 02, 2021, 11:34:36 PM
Is the blonde lady me?

no.

Oh!
You ain’t no blonde or you ain’t no lady?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 03, 2021, 03:14:02 AM
I'll tell ya one thing, FVV plays his ass off on both ends every night.
I think last year he was Top 3 in deflections (I should look that up).
For a team without a bona fide starting PG, FVV is worth his contract.

Chip, might be adding Toppings over TyH.
This season, ObiT isn't giving us much and TyH is a real smart solid two-way SG.
If We had added TyH and C Wood (+ Quickly), we'd be in terrific shape.

Bullox is the new Courtney Lee.  A solid 2-way player who is overly passive.  He might pop off for a little 5 point spurt in a middle quarter and then goes quiet. 

Title: Re: Huh?
Post by: Kam on February 03, 2021, 03:21:23 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 03, 2021, 12:32:45 AM
Quote from: Kam on February 02, 2021, 11:34:36 PM
Is the blonde lady me?

no.

Oh!
You ain’t no blonde or you ain’t no lady?

Yes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 03, 2021, 03:48:15 AM
I still prefer Deni over Obi for us and as a player. He’s knocking in 7 points, 4 boards, and 2 dimes while hitting 45% of his 3’s. He’s still a bit skinny as a teenager but has all the makings of a credible swing forward. His skills translate just fine.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on February 03, 2021, 03:56:54 AM
2021 WESTCHESTER KNICKS TEAM PREVIEW: DENNIS SMITH JR., G LEAGUE BUBBLE AND MORE

https://theknickswall.com/2021-westchester-knicks-team-preview-dennis-smith-jr-g-league-bubble-more/

Myles Powell for Franky please. Time to bury the busts
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 03, 2021, 06:15:05 AM
FVV 54 Pts + 3 Steals & 3 Blocks.
The guy's 6'1"
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 03, 2021, 09:25:35 AM
Welcome to the annals of NBA coaching, STEVE NASH

Nets played the FOUL game last night, up 3 with 9 ticks left.  Won by 4.

Steve must have been thinking back to all those times as a player when he was on the court thinking "why dont we just foul here?"
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 03, 2021, 09:26:34 AM
Kyrie postgame

"We know (Clippers) are in contention for MEETING US DOWN THE LINE."

Heh - excellent.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 03, 2021, 11:58:55 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 03, 2021, 09:25:35 AM
Welcome to the annals of NBA coaching, STEVE NASH
Nets played the FOUL game last night, up 3 with 9 ticks left.  Won by 4.

Nearly backfired.
Harden fouled Batum who was passing to Paul George who was ahead of the play.
I don't know what the Clear Path rules are and clearly neither did any TNT announcer, who remained silent while the ref review was under way.  But I suspect that if Batum was fouled after releasing the ball and not before, that it would have been 2 FT's for LAC and the ball.  A gift while down 3.
So it's not so clear cut.  (but I do like the move more when you have excellent FT shooters such as KI, KD and Harden).

Btw, the TNT announcers were terrible.  Seemed they were following the Net dictum that you don't criticize any of the Big 3.  Or maybe it's just the NBA guideline that stars never get called out for mistakes.  For instance, with just a hair over a minute left up by 7, Durant goes in the air and throws a horrible pass back into a crowd easily stolen.  This gets referred to vaguely as "a Net turnover."   And no mention that two games before with 55 secs left in a tight game, KD crossed halfcourt and fumbled the ball out of bounds.  The kind of late game mistakes he routinely made as a Thunder, when stepping out of bounds in crunch time was his specialty.

Earlier in the LAC game, maybe 6'2" Kyrie closes out on 6'7" Batum in the corner, makes significant contact with Batum's arm and Clips get a 4 point play.  And the TNT announcer actually praises Kyrie for "making the right play" and closing out hard.  A late close on a taller player resulting in a foul behind the arc, a 4 point play in this case, is never a good play.

Kyrie post- Wiz game
"I couldn't guard a stick out there"
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 03, 2021, 01:36:55 PM
Nearly backfired.


Yeah, that was the second one

Nets had to employ it twice in last ten seconds

Good to see Nash use it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 03, 2021, 01:43:32 PM
Knix just 4-10 after a strong 5-3 start.

Knix do have W's v. MIL, UTA, BOS, IND

Knix have played the most Road games (13) of any East team.
But just 4-5 @ MSG.

4 of the next 8 at Home.
But the next 4 Home games are none too friendly.
A POR-MIA Home B2B.
HOU on the 2nd night of a Road-Home B2B; and ATL.

The 4 Road games are against weaker teams:
@ Chi; @ Mia; @ Was; @ Orl

From Feb 16 to Mar 3, Knix play 8 games against weak teams, with only IND a likely playoff team.  That includes a 5 Homestand.

So try to go at least 4-4 in the next 8; hopefully 5-3 or better to get closer to .500
Then the 2nd half of Feb offers a good chance for run of W's.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 03, 2021, 02:39:22 PM
Yeah....

just not seeing a 5-3 there

Likely 3-5.---

Gertting back to clear path - I slo mo'd that last play - and from one angle it appeared Harden committed the foul just PRIOR to Baum's pass to PG.  But angle from the forecourt seems to show the ball out of Batum's hands

That being said - dont think I have ever seen a clear path situation that would have led to a 3-point opp. ratgher than a layup.  That would have been truly unique.

Good game.  Like an idiot I didnt DVR it but caught the end on TNT prior to Bos-GS.  Celts played well and won that one.

But you never know with this team.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 03, 2021, 08:25:46 PM
8 minutes into the game and it is 20-10 NY

I sure wish Quickley had started
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 03, 2021, 09:05:01 PM
35 second quarter points for Bulls
Title: Hey Les
Post by: carlos123 on February 03, 2021, 09:46:56 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 03, 2021, 08:25:46 PM
8 minutes into the game and it is 20-10 NY

I sure wish Quickley had started

Hey Les, I think this Chamaco musing is directed at you, my doggie.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 03, 2021, 09:52:48 PM
Stop turning the ball over Knicks
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 03, 2021, 10:04:40 PM
If they lose this game they should walk home.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 03, 2021, 10:17:37 PM
I've never yelled so much at my TV watching a Knicks win.  That fourth quarter was straight garbage doo doo film.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 03, 2021, 10:24:15 PM
THIBS stuffed a note in his pocket at halftime

PAYTON FINISHES.  NO MATTER WHAT.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 03, 2021, 10:44:10 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 02, 2021, 05:41:48 PM
Tomorrow at ATL but then 9 of the next ten at home for DALLAS

I call 7-3.

Mavs over Hawks tonight.  1-0.
Title: Afraid of winning?
Post by: carlos123 on February 03, 2021, 11:09:16 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 03, 2021, 10:17:37 PM
I've never yelled so much at my TV watching a Knicks win.  That fourth quarter was straight garbage doo doo film.

It was awful, and it’s not like they were trying to lose it. Sometimes people get jittery, like they’re afraid of winning.

Like Chamaco mentioned, the Dallas Knicks won, with good games by both KP and Tim Jr.

It looks like they lose when we lose, and when they win, we win. Now, MY QUESTION FOR YOU KAMSTER :
What do you enjoy more, a Dallas loss or a NY win?

I’m asking you because it looks like you can have one or the other, but not both.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 03, 2021, 11:58:39 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 03, 2021, 10:44:10 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 02, 2021, 05:41:48 PM
Tomorrow at ATL but then 9 of the next ten at home for DALLAS

I call 7-3.

Mavs over Hawks tonight.  1-0.

LOL.  You called 7-3 over the next ten games.  0-0.
Title: Re: Afraid of winning?
Post by: Kam on February 04, 2021, 12:02:48 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 03, 2021, 11:09:16 PM
MY QUESTION FOR YOU KAMSTER :
What do you enjoy more, a Dallas loss or a NY win?

I’m asking you because it looks like you can have one or the other, but not both.

Knicks win.
Title: Kevin Porter Jr gets it
Post by: Kam on February 04, 2021, 12:16:44 AM
(https://external-preview.redd.it/SeuLSdwxMdND8lEk_2qT8fVP2NF3Vj_Vkqf4wuMADB4.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=eaaae9f886f50a26e6d2c85c031ea51d5480aade)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 04, 2021, 01:49:40 AM
Immanuel Quickley should be named Immanuel Shootley (sorry). He is a true flame-thrower from behind the arc and automatic from the free-throw line. He can hold his own defensively (6-10 wingspan), which will allow him to leverage his tremendous shooting ability in clutch moments. At 6-3, he will be an undersized shooting guard at the next level, as he has yet to show the kind of passing/playmaking skills to play meaningful minutes at point guard. His ceiling tops out as a Lou Williams type of scoring threat off the bench. He's a bit of a reach at this point in the draft, but he's going to be an exciting player.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 04, 2021, 02:38:40 AM
Payton playing like he’s trying to keep his job is a good look for him. Mitch avoiding early fouls is a good look for us.

The official stat sheet seemed to undercount TOs from our vet guards.
Title: Stats
Post by: Kam on February 04, 2021, 03:25:59 AM
Knicks are a good first quarter team but a bad fourth quarter team.

NBA rank 8th in first quarter scoring margin
NBA rank 19th in 2nd quarter scoring margin
NBA rank 18th in 3rd quarter scoring margin
NBA rank 26th in 4th quarter scoring margin

We certainly witnessed the dual effect last night vs Chicago where we blew the doors off them in the 1st and hung on for a close victory.
I attribute both the hot starts and cold finishes to Thibs coaching ability and coaching style. 
He gets his players ready to play evidenced by the hot starts.
He wears those players down evidenced by the weak finishes.
Leon Rose can help by bringing in more quality talent so that the overall team talent is better distributed and there is enough to win games at the end.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 04, 2021, 04:33:40 AM
I’ll take Cunningham and FSU’s Scottie Barnes with our two firsts & see how we do.
Title: Re: Hey Les
Post by: lesterluv on February 04, 2021, 09:48:11 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 03, 2021, 09:46:56 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 03, 2021, 08:25:46 PM
8 minutes into the game and it is 20-10 NY

I sure wish Quickley had started

Hey Les, I think this Chamaco musing is directed at you, my doggie.

Lol, kiid is way too much of a coward to direct anything at me. He's never had any balls....

Anyway, good to see him join the Quickley should start group. Now....about that PER
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 04, 2021, 10:14:44 AM
Big 1Q from Elf & Randle.

Mr. Thibs brings IQ & Rivers in together (often with Burks in a 3G alignment).
Then Elf & Reg replace them.  I like both pairings.  For now, Knox has become the 11th man, and out of the rotation.

CHI sure willing to take bad shots.
Patrick Will enigmatic.  Goes quiet or looks unsure.  Then makes some plays.
I guess that's being 19 in a weirdly (un)structured offense.

Thad played hard, got 5 steals.
Every time Bulls make a run, Knix have responded ... so far.
I'm only through 3Q's right now.

ObiT went under a screen just before the half -- a Thibs NoNo.
Still not a fan of Burks D -- check out 1 min into the 2Q where he overhelps inside on a drive leaving his man wide open for a kickout 3.  He does that at least once a game.

Elf's strong game limiting Quix minutes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 04, 2021, 10:56:13 AM
Real sloppy endgame.

Odd thing is Bulls rebound with 21 secs left down 5.
Coby White is pushing the ball upcourt.
Looks like a Bulls 4-on-3.  With Mitch down on the floor.
And CHI calls a timeout.
Er ... looked like a good op to get a quick score.

Then after the timeout, Bulls turn it over on the inbounds.
Then everyone throws the ball around weirdly.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 04, 2021, 11:25:03 AM
"Thad played hard"

I like this player some, but.....

Single most ridiculous play was at the end of the 3rd, Knicks up 12, Randle bringing ball up with 5 ticks left.

Steps up to the three point line.  Young watches as Julius nails three at the buzzer.

Is that coaching?  Or on the player?  I didnt get it.

As for NBA overall defense - players coming out so young prior to having proper training - and not getting it at the AAU level - leading to all these high scores (NBA defense rules do not help, true)

Shit - I could have held FVV to 40
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 04, 2021, 01:58:39 PM
Thad has always been one of my favorite players. He’s aged like fine wine.
Title: IQ #1 Rookie
Post by: Kam on February 05, 2021, 12:35:31 AM
According to USA Today (https://therookiewire.usatoday.com/lists/rookie-wire-power-rankings-february-3-immanuel-quickley/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 05, 2021, 12:59:43 AM
Capela had 8 O-boards, shot 3-14 FG with 0 FT's.
Seems hard to do.
Title: Your Portland Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on February 05, 2021, 01:15:12 AM
Big win without Dame or McCollum. Melo +26 and Enes + 25.

Dallas Knicks not good, but NY wasn’t playing, so it don’t really count. Anyway, good for you Kamster 😉
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 05, 2021, 01:39:03 AM
If Dallas can keep their D clicking like this, we should have a very exciting draft.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 05, 2021, 02:15:11 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 05, 2021, 01:39:03 AM
If Dallas can keep their D clicking like this, we should have a very exciting draft.

Callie Caplan
@CallieCaplan

What did the Mavs talk about after this loss?

Jalen Brunson: "Defense. Defense, defense, defense."

What specifically about the defense?

Brunson: "We've got to play it."
Title: Re: Your Portland Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 05, 2021, 02:16:13 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 05, 2021, 01:15:12 AM

Dallas Knicks not good, but NY wasn’t playing, so it don’t really count. Anyway, good for you Kamster 😉

My second favorite team is whoever is playing the Mavs that night.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 05, 2021, 05:42:37 AM
Quote from: Kam on February 05, 2021, 02:15:11 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 05, 2021, 01:39:03 AM
If Dallas can keep their D clicking like this, we should have a very exciting draft.

Callie Caplan
@CallieCaplan

What did the Mavs talk about after this loss?

Jalen Brunson: "Defense. Defense, defense, defense."

What specifically about the defense?

Brunson: "We've got to play it."
Title: Dallas V New York
Post by: chipstern on February 05, 2021, 10:11:51 AM
Offense V Defense

KP V Draymond

5-8 from Trey V 15 assists

Josh V Kelly

6-1-5, 2-5 from Trey V 40-8-2, 7-10 from Trey

Ah, the simple pleasures. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 05, 2021, 05:52:17 PM
umm.....

okay.

Good to see Oubre break out of his funk a bit over the last 5 outings.  They will need him to make the top 8 (which I believe they can)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 05, 2021, 07:13:36 PM
Jeff Eisenband
@JeffEisenband

Nets got Kyrie Irving, Kevin Durant and James Harden and the most popular NBA player in New York City right now is Immanuel Quickley.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 05, 2021, 08:10:32 PM
SUMMARY
2020-21


G     PTS   REB   AST  FG%  FG3% FT% eFG%   PER  WS
20   21.9   8.8    3.3   52.6    31.4  70.1  55.1    24.6  3.0    Anthony Davis
23   22.6   10.9  6.0    47.5   39.6  80.5  52.2    20.6  2.7     Julius Randle
Title: Mavs Fans
Post by: Kam on February 05, 2021, 08:16:44 PM
(https://preview.redd.it/65v2gsivukf61.png?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=597b430b7f1b3290c9941428196b9a807097cf78)

My reaction:

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/0f431c7be8697ce29d48b3a91dff94fd/tenor.gif?itemid=5222702)
Title: Hey Kamster
Post by: carlos123 on February 05, 2021, 09:40:54 PM
We know you ain't Jack Nicholson...

So which one of the Mavs Fans posted on your thread are you?

I'd bet on Guest7x7 or DarkLightcito. Maybe both of them?

(https://dmn-dallas-news-prod.cdn.arcpublishing.com/resizer/CFLfqwa2UG5Eeak44y_yunlwy8s=/1660x934/smart/filters:no_upscale()/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/dmn/QEX53SZIQBFHHK3NA5LVVQ3LIM.jpg)

Just 4u, a pic of your hero 😁
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 05, 2021, 09:51:10 PM
Neither are me.  I don't have burner accounts. 

Title: Honest Kamster
Post by: carlos123 on February 05, 2021, 10:42:48 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 05, 2021, 09:51:10 PM
Neither are me.  I don't have burner accounts.

I know Kamster.

Just kidding 😉

PS. U also NOT Jack Nicholson, or a blonde lady for that matter.
Title: Knicks #1 fan
Post by: Kam on February 06, 2021, 12:09:52 AM
https://www.thestrick.land/strick/why-theo-pinson-is-the-real-met-most-enthusiastic-teammate-and-why-we-should-care (https://www.thestrick.land/strick/why-theo-pinson-is-the-real-met-most-enthusiastic-teammate-and-why-we-should-care)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 06, 2021, 03:55:39 AM
Last year when they moved KZ to C full-time, the Mavs had the best offense in the history of the universe.  And KZ played solid D at C.

Mavs had a 2020 O-rating of 116.7 nearly 4 ahead of 2nd place Clips (113.9).
Equal to the difference between the LAC and the 18th ranked Pacers.

So mostly a case of some crappy fans.  They are so dispirited and quick to turn on their team, I have to wonder if they were Knick fans who followed KZ to DAL.

KZ has missed 11 of 23 games; Josh Rich & Funky-Smith 9 of 23; Powell 10 of 23; Kleber 11 of 23.  Luka is doing his thing, but with lots of turnovers and shooting just 30% on 3's. 

They tried to swap some O for D but Scurry 2.0 shot 45% on 3's last year, and his replacement Josh Rich just 27% this year (and has missed half the games). 
With their full team available, they should turn things around.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 06, 2021, 04:38:27 AM
A weirdly frustrating TOR-BKY game.

Raps killing Nets in the paint, but start jacking 3's in the 4Q.  Missing mostly contested efforts with no rap anywhere underneath to rebound, until Lowry gets hot and makes some deep 3's late.  Kyrie mentally checked out and took just one 4Q shot, almost never touched the ball.  As it got deep in the 4Q I checked to see if Kyrie was indeed out there.  Maybe he was bummed/worried that KD was removed mid-3Q for quarantining as someone KD had been near tested positive.  For the last 4 minutes of a very close, action-packed lead-changing game, the announcers kept regurgitating the Durant situation, missing things such as Lowry nailing a tough 3 to retake the lead.  I actually started yelling at my screen, The Game, The Game, Pay Attention to the Game.  Finally just muted those idiots, which I should have done much earlier with Doris Verbose anyway.

Anyway, pin that loss on mopey-ass Kyrie.  If he couldn't continue playing, he should have asked out and let someone (Shamet 4-9 on 3's; or effortvescent TLC) actually try to help the team win.  You have to wonder how much Nash is allowed to coach this team.
Title: Daily Knicks--HORESHIT ON THE APEX OF QAnon
Post by: chipstern on February 06, 2021, 06:14:33 AM
No heat overnight, woke me up. 

Heat coming now, but I felt the need for something really fucking dumb to get the blood boiling and oxygen flowing to the brain. 

I have a GOOGLE query called KNICKS NEWS, which brings up new, rumors and pseudo-PSEUDO speculation passing itself off as....

Well, you tell me. 

So when I saw the teaser for DAILY KNICKS, I knew not even LesterDawg insisting my dead mother was a better PG than Elfrid Payton would do the trick. 

TITLE?

Realistic Trade Packages For Zach Levine

By one Adam Kester. 

Keister is more like it. 

Knicks Trade: RJ Barrett, Immanuel Quickley, 2021 First Round Pick, 2021 2nd Round Pick

Bulls Trade: Zach LaVine


Numb Nutz does not specify which #2, Charlotte's or Detroit's, but apparenly he values LaVine like Zion Williamson, and of course, all one has to do is look at the Bulls record. 

But wait....there's more concoctions. 

Knicks Trade: Obi Toppin, Kevin Knox, Frank Ntilikina, 2021 1st Round Pick, 2021 2nd Round Pick, 2023 Mavericks’ 1st Round Pick, 2023 2nd Round Pick

Bulls Trade: Zach LaVine

Or perhaps you'd like....

Knicks Trade: RJ Barrett, Julius Randle, Kevin Knox, 2021 1st Round Pick, 2021 2nd Round Pick

Bulls Trade: Zach LaVine, Thaddeus Young

When I helpfully suggesred that these "trades" were, well, my initial metaphor was MORONIC, it was suggested that my comment defied COMMUNITY STANDARDS. 

Anyway, thought you guys could use a laugh, and LesterDawg a moment to reflect. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 06, 2021, 08:24:36 AM
I wouldn't trade RJB for ZLeV straight up.

I might go ObiT for Zach.
But we'd be real thin up front then.
Title: TODAY 1 pm
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 06, 2021, 09:25:18 AM
Program note

1 PM games today and tomorrow
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 06, 2021, 09:30:04 AM
They tried to swap some O for D but Scurry 2.0 shot 45% on 3's last year, and his replacement Josh Rich just 27% this year (and has missed half the games).


This QUITE important.  Makes Knicks seeking of J J Redick make sense.

How do you let Curry go?  Or maybe he wasnt staying regardless of what was offered.  Mavs - I know there are injuries - early NBA MESS team, with Raptors.  But time to regroup.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 06, 2021, 09:41:36 AM
I wouldn't trade RJB for ZLeV straight up.


Weird take - unless you think Zach wouldnt sign an extension

Obviously the better situation would be to ADD him to  Barrett if you could get LeVine for picks plus contract scraps. 

And of course keeping RJ continues with the "we are building this with OUR guys" approach.  And no, I dont want to see him go.

But ZL is clearly better than Barrett.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 06, 2021, 09:49:58 AM
Speaking of Toppin - I know not everyone here watches Thibs' Post game comments - nor do I religiously.   

In one of them the issue of Obi and his contributions come to the forefront

Of course TT didnt go negative but I was pleasantly surprised at how effusive he was in his praise for Obi's progress.

I had always figured Thibs to play the guys who will allow him to win - seeing the DEFINITE minutes projections (replacing Randle altogether in some posts) by some here as comical. 

Progress can come even without consistently big game minutes,  I often did chuckle hearing the "so and so his holding (insert player here) back" crowd.

Toppin still amounts to a major asset in this BUILD.  I know you all agree - just wanted to give that some punch.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 06, 2021, 09:54:39 AM
Damn - just seeing I missed a good Celts-Clipper game

Boston wins it 119-115.

I did see Celts were getting their corner guy back.  Wonder if he factored.

CELTS and CLIPS each sure to make a trade as the talk continues to be UTAH and PHILLY

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 06, 2021, 09:56:54 AM
Interesting -

8 for Pritchard

0 for Teague

And SIXTEEN for Carsen Edwards.

Celts got Edwards in one of those deals I am often killing them for - so for a day - mea culpa - heh.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 06, 2021, 10:14:24 AM
Fun game of the night seems to have been Indy-NO - a 114-113 Pels win

Ball went for 20

Has 19 three pointers last 5 games as Pels apparently showcase him

SVG went with the small and not so deep lineup - playing 3 guards off bench and 9th player getting just 2 minutes.  Wonder if they had any 5 guard setups.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 06, 2021, 01:41:03 PM
Lillard with 13 & 4 in the 1Q despite hobbling around.
Guy is tough and good.

POR 7-15 on 1Q 3's.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 06, 2021, 02:10:31 PM
Knicks 18-28 on 2 pointers for the half
Title: ELFRID PAYTON
Post by: carlos123 on February 06, 2021, 03:32:21 PM
Hey Les, I don't mean to antagonize you, but Elfrid quite good the last two games.

IQ looks like the future, but right now has some tough competition at PG.

All good, u still my doggie.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3cVKLtTXP4pppfpezTmTRI7IEcePElcJvcOZMjfkRWuN5YINC28K6pMLFgH7txYGXqOnM8nDGtebSYdIOOw98WVJGGseGLDknmOSmOlecsvITXeS2cCKmNYqrpJtZi8wjVF2XbJt-ZbuXWns_kijDnJ=w1199-h600-no?authuser=0)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 06, 2021, 04:16:06 PM
 I had to bolt at halftime, up six. Looking forward to uncorking the second half when I get home.
Title: One third of the season done
Post by: Kam on February 06, 2021, 04:42:02 PM
Knicks are on pace to go 33-39

Fun fact:  No Knick has ever worn the #39
Title: Re: One third of the season done
Post by: chipstern on February 06, 2021, 05:06:14 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 06, 2021, 04:42:02 PM
Knicks are on pace to go 33-39

Fun fact:  No Knick has ever worn the #39

Just for the record.

Chip's Call, Made Under Duress

33-39
Title: Zach For Obi V KP For Cap Space & Draft Picks
Post by: chipstern on February 06, 2021, 05:15:37 PM
With all due respect, Bo, are you shitting me?  I would NOT trade Obi for Zach. 

And I like Zach. 

Oladipo's health and cost worry me, but he will be an UFA next summer.  Let's cross that bridge when the time is right. 

MEANWHILE

HELLO...we have two first rounders; Hahn was talkiing about how Porzingis has no lateral movement, and God forbid something happens to Luka, Dallas will plummet in the West.  Knicks have a shot at making a playoff run, if not a .500% or better.  And if Detroit keeps losing?

We could have a lottery pick, a mid-first rounder, and the opening pick in the second round, which is tantamount to a first rounder, plus Charlotte's second rounder.  

What's the rush?  Christ, we're doing okay.  Not saying we couldn't make some moves at the trade deadline.  I would be looking at the likes of J.J. Reddick [$13 million], Malik Monk [5 million]. 

PS: Porzingis Trade?  Wes?  Gone.  DeAndre?  Gone.  Dennis?  Going. 

PPS:  Cap Space.  Kevin?  NYET.  Kyrie?  NYET. 

PPPS:  Cap Space?  Julius?  YES.  Marcus Morris > Immanuel Quckley?  YES.  Marcus Morris > Detroit's second rounder.  YES.  KP > Dallas Unprotected #1 Pick YES

PPPPS: Elfrid? Reggie? Noel? Burks? Rivers? Taj? All on one year contracts.  YES. 

PPPPPS: KP [$29.4, $31.6, $33.8, $36.1], Julius [$18.9, $19.8]

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 06, 2021, 06:16:21 PM
For the last few years, Lillard has been so. fucking. good.

Just plays the game with incredible will.

In other news, why emphasize the competition between Payton and Quickly? We can win a boatload of games if both of them actually play well. So weird today — and such a shift from previous years — to watch our point guards as a force.




Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 06, 2021, 06:34:38 PM
MSG guys were saying Dame was hurt and Payton took advantage.  Regardless its good for Payton to be aggressive.   Payton's had two games in a row.  But before that he had 6 bad ones.  I wonder why the inconsistency.  He is a veteran and needs to bring it everynight.  Knicks are hard to beat when Payton makes 5 field goals (9-2).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 06, 2021, 08:21:47 PM
Problem with Levine is how much are you paying him to stay (1 year left after this)?

But I sure think we could make a competitive offer with respect to the other teams that will be trying to add him.

Great game today

I am pleasantly surprised to very likely be wrong about the 8-game record (I had said 3-5, maybe 4-4) after we have now started with 2 wins.  5-3 certainly doable - I apologize for that.

Thibs managed a great game.  Did you see how he played 3 starters the entire 3rd quarter?  See what is happening - and adjust.  Higher level of coaching, surely.  And my guess is the "vets" appreciate it.

Title: Re: ELFRID PAYTON
Post by: carlos123 on February 06, 2021, 08:24:30 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 06, 2021, 06:16:21 PM
For the last few years, Lillard has been so. fucking. good.

Just plays the game with incredible will.

In other news, why emphasize the competition between Payton and Quickly? We can win a boatload of games if both of them actually play well. So weird today — and such a shift from previous years — to watch our point guards as a force.

Elephant, I'm rooting for  both Payton and Quickey, and I'm glad when Elfrid has a good game. I'm also aware that IQ is the future, as I mentioned.

Was just playing with my doggie, Les. Trying to get a WOOF!, or maybe even a WOOF, WOOF!!! outta him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 06, 2021, 09:06:14 PM
That's not how you get a woof outta Les.

Here's how you get a woof outta Les:

Les only posts after Elfrid has a bad game.
Title: Who gets the woof
Post by: carlos123 on February 06, 2021, 09:19:49 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 06, 2021, 09:06:14 PM
That's not how you get a woof outta Les.

Here's how you get a woof outta Les:

Les only posts after Elfrid has a bad game.

Kamster, you're a brave man!

You may get a big bite instead 🐶

My doggie still a good guy. But anything can happen in the heat of the moment 👹
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on February 06, 2021, 10:15:52 PM
why are the Knicks trading for D Rose and how exactly will that help IQ?
Title: Re: Knuckleheads
Post by: carlos123 on February 06, 2021, 10:31:10 PM
Quote from: Jack Straw on February 06, 2021, 10:15:52 PM
why are the Knicks trading for D Rose and how exactly will that help IQ?

It would be insane.

Are they actually doing it or did you just hear an old rumor?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on February 06, 2021, 11:11:30 PM
the likelihood is in an article  in the Athletic- I saw it on twitter, apparently very close- French Frank part of the deal...

https://theathletic.com/2364944/2021/02/06/derrick-rose-trade-knicks/?source=emp-shared-article (https://theathletic.com/2364944/2021/02/06/derrick-rose-trade-knicks/?source=emp-shared-article)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on February 06, 2021, 11:16:04 PM
and this and there are others...


Shams Charania
@ShamsCharania
Knicks are engaged in talks to acquire Derrick Rose, other teams also interested, with the Pistons and Rose agreeing that a trade elsewhere would be best for both sides, sources tell me and
@JLEdwardsIII
.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 07, 2021, 12:06:09 AM
Seemed another team the Knix baited into taking lots of 3's (47 of their 89 FG's).
Taking the easy way out instead of contending with the physical NYK Bigs down low.

I thought Clyde was exactly right, that POR didn't bother to tighten their D until it was too late (last 2 or 3 minutes).

Lillard was hurting, but he's never much on D.  Though I will give him credit for one play where Papa Bear Julius was posting
him up and Lillard poked away and stole the ball.

Melo was bad.
Kanter was solid.


Title: Re: Knucks
Post by: carlos123 on February 07, 2021, 12:44:44 AM
Quote from: Jack Straw on February 06, 2021, 11:16:04 PM
and this and there are others...


Shams Charania
@ShamsCharania
Knicks are engaged in talks to acquire Derrick Rose, other teams also interested, with the Pistons and Rose agreeing that a trade elsewhere would be best for both sides, sources tell me and
@JLEdwardsIII
.

O Lord!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 07, 2021, 01:35:32 AM
Maybe they are using us for leverage or gathering French speakers to push into the Canadian market.

I hope it’s the leverage, though no doubt Rose can still play.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 07, 2021, 01:39:57 AM
Quickly played 13 minutes today.

How is Rose helpful to the Knicks?

I don't get it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 07, 2021, 01:45:27 AM
Quote from: elephant on February 07, 2021, 01:39:57 AM
Quickly played 13 minutes today.

How is Rose helpful to the Knicks?

I don't get it.

I tend to agree.  Unless he is dealt for Elfrid Payton straight up.  I could deal with that move.  Anything else seems dicey.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 07, 2021, 02:36:37 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 07, 2021, 01:35:32 AM
Maybe they are using us for leverage

I was thinking the same.
Help Mr. Thibs' ol friend DRose find a new home and make more money.

We took on a few ex-Kentucky guys who got a nice little payday and some media attention and were subsequently waived.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 07, 2021, 03:26:20 AM
If we’re taking a second look at Rose, let’s get the Pistons to expand the deal to include Sadiq Bey. Knox and Frank plus a 2nd rounder for Rose & Bey.

That’s more interesting.
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Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 07, 2021, 09:29:33 AM
Quote from: Kam on February 06, 2021, 09:06:14 PM
That's not how you get a woof outta Les.

Here's how you get a woof outta Les:

Les only posts after Elfrid has a bad game.

Jeez guys, it gets like 8, 9, 10 in a row. Great that Elf lets me take a breather every once in a while....
Title: Re: One third of the season done
Post by: lesterluv on February 07, 2021, 09:33:32 AM
Quote from: chipstern on February 06, 2021, 05:06:14 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 06, 2021, 04:42:02 PM
Knicks are on pace to go 33-39

Fun fact:  No Knick has ever worn the #39

Just for the record.

Chip's Call, Made Under Duress

33-39

Just for the record, Dawg and Chip looking PRESCIENT with Facilitatorn barking at our heels.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 07, 2021, 11:35:42 AM
Quote from: Kam on February 07, 2021, 01:45:27 AM
Quote from: elephant on February 07, 2021, 01:39:57 AM
Quickly played 13 minutes today.

How is Rose helpful to the Knicks?

I don't get it.

I tend to agree.  Unless he is dealt for Elfrid Payton straight up.  I could deal with that move.  Anything else seems dicey.

Ah, but see Payton has a no-trade clause! So that scenario is even more unlikely — he would have to want to go to Detroit.
Title: Don't Sleep On The Heat/Rose Colored Glasses
Post by: chipstern on February 07, 2021, 11:53:02 AM
Cannot quite fathom why The Knicks are 7th in the East, and the Heat are 14th. 

11-13

8-14

Here's an interesting stat.

Julius is shooting .400% from three [38-95]

Tyler Herro is at .333% [29-87]

What the actual fuck?

Of course Duncan Robinson is at .404% [74-183]

While our wings?

BoD's journeyman Alec Burks is at .443% [27-61]

French Frank .556% [5-9]

Bullock .349% [29-83]

Rivers .378% [28-74]

Knox .391% [25-64]

With Bam, Butler, Bradley, Robinson, Dragic, DO NOT SLEEP ON THE HEAT. 

As for The Thorn Of The Rose?

I have read a number of scenarios, as well as gob smacked Knicks fans going what the fuck?

And of course, the impact on Quickley, let alone Payton. 

It is hard for me to see a Rose deal materializing in a vacuumn, unless the Knicks have some other potential deals afoot, in which they are dangling the likes of Smith, Ntilikina, Rivers, Payton, Knox, Bullocks, Brazdeikis and some of our stock of #2 picks. 

If I were to transmogrify into Trader Facil, in some idealized Alternare Universe, I would offer the Pistons Dennis Smith, and our two #2 picks, one of which is Detroit's own, trending towards the first pick of the second round, and Charlotte's pick. 

More likely, the Pistons would hold out for French Frank and/or Knox, in which case, I would not proffer Detroit's #2 as an inducement.  Too valuable, but for taking Dennis off our hands?  Hey. 

Rose has been pretty consistent these past three years and this season?

15 games
22.8 minutes
14.2 ppg [.429%/.333%]
4.2 ass
1.9 reb
1.2 steals

Again, in order not to supplant Quickley's minutes, either Rivers or Payton would have to wave bye bye or play less minutes.  I think Rose's game and his experience would offer a good mentorship to High IQ, but would cut into his minutes, a la Randle V. Toppin. 

I think Thibs is projecting a playoff push, and Rose would surely provide Thibs with a comfort level, a la Gibson, but his game is pretty similar to Payton's, so unless there are other deals afoot where Rivers and/or Payton are out of here, and we can somehow purloin a shooter like Reddick, I'm not seeing it.

Also, shoot me, but I'd rather not give up on Frank [cue laugh track].

Again, as of this moment, I discern much smoke, but no fire, though given the moves we have seen from Perry & Perrin Inc, something is surely afoot, as it dawns on Knicks management, that HEY, WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK, we are not competing for the LOTTERY, but for the PLAYOFFS. Still, a move JUST FOR ROSE, without snatching a 3 point sniper, or purloining Bo's 3&D dream date?

If nothing else, talk of a Rose trade would certainly motivate Payton, Quickley, Rivers, Ntilikina and Smith.  Theo Pinson is already motivated, having been annionted this roster's M.L. Carr by Leon Rose. 
Title: Julius Randle V Anthony Davis
Post by: chipstern on February 07, 2021, 12:54:55 PM
Julius Randle

24 games
36.8 minutes
22.6 ppg [.497%/.400%]
.803% FT
38-95 Trey
10.9 rebounds
5.9 assists
0.8 steals
0.2 blocks

Anthony Davis

21 Games
33.6 minutes
22.3 ppg [.517%/.315%]
.702% FT
17-54 Trey
8.6 rebounds
3.2 assists
1.4 steals
1.9 blocks

Am I saying JR is better than AD?

NO.

But Julius has most certainly inserted himself into any discussion of the best PFs in the NBA. 

The specter of Kristaps Porzingis diminishes in my mind's eye. Thoughts & Prayers. 

PS: AD will be 28 in March.  Julius is 26. KP is 25. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 07, 2021, 01:15:36 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 07, 2021, 01:45:27 AM
Quote from: elephant on February 07, 2021, 01:39:57 AM
Quickly played 13 minutes today.

How is Rose helpful to the Knicks?

I don't get it.

I tend to agree.  Unless he is dealt for Elfrid Payton straight up.  I could deal with that move.  Anything else seems dicey.

I am quite sure that isnt happening

BUTLER on display today.  Should have a big game.  Who will match it for Knicks?  Maybe nobody and we still win?  That will be a great sign.
Title: A rose is a rose is a thorn
Post by: carlos123 on February 07, 2021, 01:16:02 PM
Moving for D. Rose is exactly the kind of regressive move I was fearing from Rosethibs. Hope it doesn’t happen. Unlike Chip, I don’t think these rumors are motivating Payton or IQ. More in the demoralizing category.

PS. KP is too f’in fragile. Good luck to him, but I’d much rather have Julius.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 07, 2021, 01:39:23 PM
I still can't find justification for the Rose move — or rather, I don't find the arguments persuasive.

I think the vet/youth thing can be overstated. Quickley, for instance, has already shown he's a clutch ball player. How fucking rare is that? How many guys on our team can you say that about?

His instincts are strong. Not everyone has to be brought along slowly.
Title: Rose & Thibs
Post by: chipstern on February 07, 2021, 02:20:58 PM
Dollars To Doughnuts, THIBS Is The Impetus Behind Any Rose Trade. 

Casey Stengel, when once asked what the secret of his success, opined, that "I never play without my man," by which he meant YOGI BERRA, whether at catcher, first base or left field. 

Thibs is most def developing youth. 

Robinson, Barrett, Quickley....RANDLE. 

But he likes his vets.

Payton, Rivers, Bullock, Burks. 

Again, one has to think there is more than one deal on the back burner. 

If I were to transmogrify into Trader Facil, in some idealized Alternare Universe, I would offer the Pistons Dennis Smith, and our two #2 picks, one of which is Detroit's own, trending towards the first pick of the second round, and Charlotte's pick.


Alan Hahn just posted on FACEBOOK, that according to the Athletic, this is precisely what is going down. 

Dennis Smith and draft compensation for Derrick Rose.  A fair bet that no #1 picks are going bye bye.

So Detroit getting back their #2 which we aquired from the Morris trade.  Maybe Charlotte's #2 or one of the future #2 picks we have stockpiled. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 07, 2021, 02:39:10 PM
A small thing, but Mitch has got to work on his jump balls. He's lost two — the last one to Butler — resulting in 5 quick points.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 07, 2021, 02:43:50 PM
Happy to be wrong about Butler - though Knicks still trailing
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 07, 2021, 03:13:37 PM
Finally! Rivers is taken out!

When he's not draining 3's or penetrating — and he hasn't done either for awhile — it's a mystery why he's in there so much. Wouldn't Frank be better on the floor? Free the French man!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 07, 2021, 03:14:29 PM
Are we back to the Quickley finish for today?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 07, 2021, 03:17:59 PM
Combined points

1st half - 119

2nd - 83

(1:38 left)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 07, 2021, 03:25:25 PM
HEAT can now pass Knicks in loss column if they win the next contest (second of back to back)

Hornets winning - and creeping up.  Knicks had the right idea seeking LaMelo.
Title: Re: One third of the season done
Post by: facilitatorn on February 07, 2021, 03:36:48 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on February 07, 2021, 09:33:32 AM
Quote from: chipstern on February 06, 2021, 05:06:14 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 06, 2021, 04:42:02 PM
Knicks are on pace to go 33-39

Fun fact:  No Knick has ever worn the #39

Just for the record.

Chip's Call, Made Under Duress

33-39

Just for the record, Dawg and Chip looking PRESCIENT with Facilitatorn barking at our heels.

After this matinee, Dawg and Chip looking a bit optimistic.

Our frontcourt looked good against Miami’s, but only two of our perimeter guys were up for this kind  of game, Burks & Bullock.

Replacing Rivers with Rose in our rotation would make us more or less a lock as a low seed playoff team.

Hope we pass. I want playin and ping-pong instead. And Rose, like Frank and Payton, hits the market as a UFA next season.

Obi is making strides. I like him on the baseline against the zone.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 07, 2021, 03:40:32 PM
Whoever gets Rose gets his Bird rights - and thus can sign him for up to 13.4 mil per (has to be 2+ years)

Certainly a positive for Knicks should we complete the deal, which is supposedly close to fruition.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 07, 2021, 03:55:40 PM
MIA sure loses guys along the (left) baseline, which is tailor made for ObiT.
Mitch got outplayed by Bam.

Butler looked rusty, yet made some big shots, got 12 FT's and nearly a trip-dub.  A competitor.  MIA 3-2 since Butler returned (an OT loss an another by 3).

Bollocks was hot.  7 treys and 4 steals = a nice 2-way effort.
Randle did his thing. 
Was almost enough.
Heat a gritty grind it out team.
So are the Knix.
Good game
Title: Re: Rose & Thibs
Post by: carlos123 on February 07, 2021, 03:58:35 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 07, 2021, 02:20:58 PM
Dollars To Doughnuts, THIBS Is The Impetus Behind Any Rose Trade. 

Casey Stengel, when once asked what the secret of his success, opined, that "I never play without my man," by which he meant YOGI BERRA, whether at catcher, first base or left field. 

Thibs is most def developing youth. 

Robinson, Barrett, Quickley....RANDLE. 

But he likes his vets.

Payton, Rivers, Bullock, Burks. 

Again, one has to think there is more than one deal on the back burner. 

If I were to transmogrify into Trader Facil, in some idealized Alternare Universe, I would offer the Pistons Dennis Smith, and our two #2 picks, one of which is Detroit's own, trending towards the first pick of the second round, and Charlotte's pick.


Alan Hahn just posted on FACEBOOK, that according to the Athletic, this is precisely what is going down. 

Dennis Smith and draft compensation for Derrick Rose.  A fair bet that no #1 picks are going bye bye.

So Detroit getting back their #2 which we aquired from the Morris trade.  Maybe Charlotte's #2 or one of the future #2 picks we have stockpiled.

Sure he likes his vets.

Like BoZ said, we got Taj, Rivers and soon D. Rose. Butler won't play for him, so the only one missing from the old gang will be Joakim Noah.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 07, 2021, 04:06:26 PM
Deal is official

Knicks keep the DET pick - give up the CHA - with DSJ

Happy for Dennis

Happy for Rose

Happy for Knicks
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on February 07, 2021, 04:33:32 PM
Pretty obvious with TT if you are soft you do not play, which begs the question why not Franky and KK?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 07, 2021, 04:34:13 PM
For just Jr. Smith and the CHA 2nd, it certainly didn't cost much to get Rose.
I assume this means we've largely given up on Rivers who was IQ's running mate.
And now Rose will take over that role.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 07, 2021, 04:38:31 PM
The Bird rights for Rose makes this super tasty.

We still have three picks in the upcoming draft, including a second rounder we’ve improved with this deal (by making Detroit worse).

This was a sharp move.

I’d rather see Rose take the minutes from Rivers than Quickley. He may displace Payton some as well.
Title: Rose
Post by: carlos123 on February 07, 2021, 05:13:09 PM
Quote from: boZizzley on February 07, 2021, 04:34:13 PM
For just Jr. Smith and the CHA 2nd, it certainly didn't cost much to get Rose.
I assume this means we've largely given up on Rivers who was IQ's running mate.
And now Rose will take over that role.

That would be nice.

Hope it's not just wishful thinking.

But I'm afraid he's gonna eat into both Elf's and IQ's minutes.

We'll know pretty soon, won't we?

Title: Blog Morons
Post by: chipstern on February 07, 2021, 05:17:57 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 07, 2021, 04:38:31 PM
The Bird rights for Rose makes this super tasty.

We still have three picks in the upcoming draft, including a second rounder we’ve improved with this deal (by making Detroit worse).

This was a sharp move.

I’d rather see Rose take the minutes from Rivers than Quickley. He may displace Payton some as well.

What the ACTUAL FUCK?

Apparently the days of the Knicks being abject suckers have passed. 

In my wildest dreams I couldn't conceive of offloading Dennis, and getting back Rose for the price of Charlotte's #2.  Not Detroit's....CHARLOTTE's!  Wow. 

Some blogger gave the Knicks a C+ on this trade because it will cut into Quick's time and delay his evolution. 

Moron. 

If it cuts into anyone's time, it will be Rivers.  I would expect to see Quickley out there with Rose and the second unit.  For starters. 

As of today, the way the draft is seeded, PreLottery-PingPong balls, the Knicks would have the #6, #9, and #31 picks in the draft. 

I was sure Detroit would hold out for Ntililina & the #31 pick, to team two Euros, a French back court of Frank and Kilian Hayesn so getting Rose for Thibs at the cost of a player who was no longer in our plans, and what is presently the #38 pick, is solid. 

Thibs gets a combo guard he trusts [and who hoefully has better vision of Obi on those baseline back cuts, and Mitchell on the pick and roll], IQ gets a more skilled mentor, Elfrid gets more competition, Rivers gets the gift of Frank breathing down his neck, and Dennis gets a second chance. 

The Charlotte pick is the second of two second rounders we got for Hernan-Gomez. 

Charlotte is presently at 11-13, while we are at 11-14, knotted at 7 & 8 in the EC. 

I would expect the value of that Hornets pick to crater a bit, because they are a team on the rise with Hayward and Ball.  Anthony Edwards looks to be a good pro, but gotta believe T-Wolves would like a Mulligan on Ball.  Ball and Russell would be some back court. 

Anyway, I know that many Knicks fans are conflicted on D-Rose given the desire to see more of Quickley.

IQ ain't going anywhere.  This is good news. 

Perry & Perrin did good. 

I suspect that out of Rose, Payton, Quickley, Rivers, Ntilikina, Barrett, Bullock, Burks, Knox and Brazdeikis, out of TEN PLAYERS competing for minutes at PG, SG, SF, some other shoes will be dropping shortly. 

Meanwhile, "We who are about to compete for Thibs' love, salute you." 
Title: Shoes Be Dropping....SOON
Post by: chipstern on February 07, 2021, 06:04:30 PM
The arrival of Rose brings help for the NBA’s 25th-rated offensive team and creates an overlap of veteran guards, including starter Elfrid Payton and Austin Rivers. Rivers is likely to become a player that contenders seek in trade talks as teams look to fortify backcourts closer to the March 25 trade deadline. – via Adrian Wojnarowski @ ESPN
Title: Re: Shoes Be Dropping....SOON
Post by: elephant on February 07, 2021, 06:26:29 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 07, 2021, 06:04:30 PM
The arrival of Rose brings help for the NBA’s 25th-rated offensive team and creates an overlap of veteran guards, including starter Elfrid Payton and Austin Rivers. Rivers is likely to become a player that contenders seek in trade talks as teams look to fortify backcourts closer to the March 25 trade deadline. – via Adrian Wojnarowski @ ESPN

Yeah, I saw that. But having seen Rivers all season, I thought, "Really?"

Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

In any case, if the basic take is that Rose will take River's minutes, cool. I hadn't thought of that earlier, because I guess I didn't see Rose playing that kind of role. But if he can — and perhaps this is the kind of thing Thibs has insight into — it will be interesting to watch.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 07, 2021, 06:37:30 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 07, 2021, 04:34:13 PM
For just Jr. Smith and the CHA 2nd, it certainly didn't cost much to get Rose.
I assume this means we've largely given up on Rivers who was IQ's running mate.
And now Rose will take over that role.

Assume away

I am thinking Thibs doesnt GIVE UP on guys.

With Rivers many thought he was signed to deal anyway.

We'll see.
Title: Re: Blog Morons
Post by: Kam on February 07, 2021, 06:50:04 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 07, 2021, 05:17:57 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 07, 2021, 04:38:31 PM
The Bird rights for Rose makes this super tasty.

We still have three picks in the upcoming draft, including a second rounder we’ve improved with this deal (by making Detroit worse).

This was a sharp move.

I’d rather see Rose take the minutes from Rivers than Quickley. He may displace Payton some as well.

What the ACTUAL FUCK?

Apparently the days of the Knicks being abject suckers have passed. 

In my wildest dreams I couldn't conceive of offloading Dennis

The KP trade keeps paying dividends!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on February 07, 2021, 06:50:07 PM
well D Rose cost us very little - that's nice, and now that it's done, time will tell how it all shakes out...as long as IQ minutes are affected (and his minutes have dropped of late) I'm fine...Rivers has not looked sharp of late so there's that...

today was spirited but a B2B matinee - even at home, is a janky scheduling  to begin with...
Title: And this was made prior to the Rose trade
Post by: Kam on February 07, 2021, 07:00:28 PM
(https://preview.redd.it/uztvqv40c4g61.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=e5005ded2484669f939e4ab1210f4284d3511ae5)
Title: More relevant memes
Post by: Kam on February 07, 2021, 07:09:42 PM
(https://i.redd.it/qykscn2xb4g61.jpg)

(https://preview.redd.it/dy70r5d034g61.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=8c0a741cf06ee89cc623a72e2dda746a7c6f3398)

(https://preview.redd.it/3wmxs1vjk3g61.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=76adcf1447ce9d616f93384eb44f16df04f496ae)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 07, 2021, 07:16:24 PM
Derrick Rose has played for every team Thibs has coached. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 07, 2021, 07:26:48 PM
Whats also cool about the Rose deal is that our management team bested NETS, CLIPPERS and others.
Unless you think Pistons were doing Derrick a solid and would only send him to NY
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 07, 2021, 07:35:34 PM
[Begley] At least one team in contention for the playoffs expressed some interest in acquiring Payton via trade.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 07, 2021, 07:40:52 PM
All this Rivers stuff is funny

Down 5 after 3, we get even off 2 Rivers dimes and a Rivers THREE.

Yawn......
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 07, 2021, 08:10:00 PM
With 45 days to the trade deadline and a new player added to Thibs rotation
A) Another deal could materialize
B) Knicks aren't desperate to make a move and could stand pat.   

Knicks will certainly let things shake out and wait to make a trade when they have the most leverage.
A lot will be determined by which teams are the most serious buyers at the deadline and what they need.
Title: Minutes
Post by: Kam on February 07, 2021, 08:17:28 PM
Thibs could give Payton, Rose and IQ each 16 minutes a game (on average) and keep each player involved and happy. 

Probably break down as picking two of those three to play in any given game and giving one 30 and the other 18 minutes.

Just depends on who is playing well and matchups.

We won't have to watch Payton when he is slumping.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 07, 2021, 09:01:19 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 07, 2021, 07:40:52 PM
All this Rivers stuff is funny

Down 5 after 3, we get even off 2 Rivers dimes and a Rivers THREE.

Yawn......

Then what happened? I don’t recall the game ending in a tie.
Title: Two years ago
Post by: Kam on February 07, 2021, 10:34:51 PM
Feb 8 2019

DSJ put up  31 Points, 8 Assists vs .... guess who?

The PISTONS!

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 07, 2021, 10:58:43 PM
Rose has played slightly less mpg for the Pistons than Rivers has been playing for us. Simple 1 for 1 swap could be the totality of the rotation change.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 07, 2021, 11:46:57 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 07, 2021, 10:58:43 PM
Rose has played slightly less mpg for the Pistons than Rivers has been playing for us. Simple 1 for 1 swap could be the totality of the rotation change.

Right you are. 

Here is a significant stat, and why this trade IS GOOD FOR QUICKLEY. 

In similar minutes and number of games?  Getting to the charity stripe? 

Austin is 7-10 from the FT Line.  Payton is 36-51, for a .706%.  Rose is 42-50 for a .840%

Austin is a better long range shooter, like 375% vs 333%.

But Rose is a better penetrator, and one would thus extrapolate, better and finding back cutters and running the pick and roll.  And when he goes to the rack, which he does with considerable frequency, he is a career .827% FT shooter. 

His one season as a Knick Derrick converted 221-253 [.874%]

Rivers .645%

Payton .629%

Ntilikina .774%

Quickley .929% [52-56 in 19 minutes a night over 20 games].

Last season with Detroit, in 26 minutes a night, his stat line was 18.1 ppg, 2.4 boards, and 5.6 assists, with 121-139 from the FT line for a .871%.  THAT IS FUCKING SOLID. 

Pretty much what he did for Thibs and Ryan Saunders the year before in Minny, where his 3-point shooting came in at .370%, down to .306% last season. 

Elfrid?  Last season for the Knicks, in similar minutes [28.4] Elfrid's stat line was 10.0 ppg, 4.7 reb, and 7.2 assists.  He was 49-86 from the FT line, for a .570%.  Doing better this year, where he is 36-51, for a .706%.

For the forseeable future we are going to see

Robinson-Randle-Bullock-Barrett-Payton

Noel/Gibson-Toppin-Burks-Quickley-Rose

Knox-Rivers-Ntilikina

Obviously Rose is not the player he was before his injury, but for 20 minutes a night? 

I can hardly wait for him to become IQ's running buddy.

Slow Immanuel's development? 

PuhLEESE. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 08, 2021, 12:24:38 AM
Rose also comes in with a better assist to TO ratio than anyone on the team. Rose can tutor Payton and Barrett as much as Quickley in that regard.
Title: PP’s
Post by: carlos123 on February 08, 2021, 01:28:05 AM
You’re sure all POSITIVE PUSSIES!

Too bad Nagel is no longer around these parts to give you all his secular blessings!

May all the ancient gods bless your heathen spirits 😁😻🙃

PS. How does a no-defense-no-3-point-shooter help this team? Color me baffled 😳
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Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 08, 2021, 04:01:07 AM
Not arguing on the no D. Rivers can’t defend so if you swap his no D for Rose who can still put pressure on the teeth of any defense, he creates looks for and takes pressure off the other guys he’s playing with. When Payton is doing it that’s great, but we can’t count on it. Quickley needs his shots and reps, but is a rook and will struggle. The offensive plus vs. the defensive minus is what will determine the size of his role going forward. I think he’s past trying to be the athlete he was and has focused on being a successful ball player with what he has left. He definitely fits somewhere in our rotation.
Title: AuRevoir
Post by: bodiddley on February 08, 2021, 04:16:21 AM
Yeah, Rose is a driver and non-distance threat a la RJB and Elf (though not as poor on 3's as Elf).  I assume: 1) Rose was available cheap  2) Rivers up-and-down effort wasn't cutting it  3) it's also about culture and getting another lockerroom guy who is solidly behind Thibs (Taj is, but he is 3rd string).

Randle, RJB, Quix all seem to be on Team Thibs.  Bullox has bought in on D and plays his role solidly.  Burks has certainly made an effort to move the ball and not jack too much and fit it, has been our best 3-point shooter, but makes mistakes (mostly on D, but last game burned a pair of 2nd half timeouts --once double teamed, an then in the endgame couldn't inbound the ball, and you could see Thibs was angry).   

Even before the season, I thought Rivers had a secure rotation spot helping IQ on the 2nd unit.  But IQ has been better than expected, and Burks has simply outplayed Rivers.  While the 3G late game lineup (IQ, AuRevoir & Burks hasn't been dynamic enough). 

So most likely Rose takes the place of Rivers as 2nd unit combo guard next to IQ.  Rivers has been up and down on both ends.

As for 'Thibs doesn't give up on guys'  ...  Exhibit 1: Jr. Smith. 
With Franc and Knox on death watch.

I'd hunt around for what a Rivers/Knox package could bring in.
Looking for a Royce O'Neal type 3&D SF.
Maybe Osman, Cam Johnson, Culver probably available but his shooting is really bad.
Title: Call On Me Teacher
Post by: chipstern on February 08, 2021, 04:19:37 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 08, 2021, 01:28:05 AM
You’re sure all POSITIVE PUSSIES!

Too bad Nagel is no longer around these parts to give you all his secular blessings!

May all the ancient gods bless your heathen spirits 😁😻🙃

PS. How does a no-defense-no-3-point-shooter help this team? Color me baffled 😳

I pledge allegiance to the flag...ooops, wrong answer. 

How's about, a penetrator who can read the defense, create off the dribble, divine easier shots for his team mates off of his penetrations, and in forcing defenses to collapse on him, force them to foul and get to the line where he converts FTs at an 80-85% clip. 

Your welcome. 

PS: In creating off the dribble and drawing defenses for his two point forays and penetrations, gee whiz, ya' think that might create opportunities for three point shooters such as Bullock and Burks and Randle and Quickley.

PPS: Or maybe that Thibs has more faith in him to initiate his offense than anyone else currently on our roster.

PPPS: Or that some of that creativity might rub off on our Puppy In Chief, High IQ? 
Title: Re: AuRevoir
Post by: chipstern on February 08, 2021, 04:26:39 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 08, 2021, 04:16:21 AM
Yeah, Rose is a driver and non-distance threat a la RJB and Elf (though not as poor on 3's as Elf).  I assume: 1) Rose was available cheap  2) Rivers up-and-down effort wasn't cutting it  3) it's also about culture and getting another lockerroom guy who is solidly behind Thibs (Taj is, but he is 3rd string).

Randle, RJB, Quix all seem to be on Team Thibs.  Bullox has bought in on D and plays his role solidly.  Burks has certainly made an effort to move the ball and not jack too much and fit it, has been our best 3-point shooter, but makes mistakes (mostly on D, but last game burned a pair of 2nd half timeouts --once double teamed, an then in the endgame couldn't inbound the ball, and you could see Thibs was angry).   

Even before the season, I thought Rivers had a secure rotation spot helping IQ on the 2nd unit.  But IQ has been better than expected, and Burks has simply outplayed Rivers.  While the 3G late game lineup (IQ, AuRevoir & Burks hasn't been dynamic enough). 

So most likely Rose takes the place of Rivers as 2nd unit combo guard next to IQ.  Rivers has been up and down on both ends.

As for 'Thibs doesn't give up on guys'  ...  Exhibit 1: Jr. Smith. 
With Franc and Knox on death watch.

I'd hunt around for what a Rivers/Knox package could bring in.
Looking for a Royce O'Neal type 3&D SF.
Maybe Osman, Cam Johnson, Culver probably available but his shooting is really bad.

You really think Cleveland is going to trade Osman or Phoeniz Johnson?  Let alone to US.  And I'm supposed to be a positive pussy.  Oh, and Culver is a SG who can't fucking shoot, converting treys at a .258% clip and FTs up from .462% to .606%
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 08, 2021, 04:30:19 AM
Rivers is best when he is playing high energy on-the-ball pestiferous defense.
I haven't seen much of that since early in the season.  He can get beat on drives, gambles a bit, sometimes takes bad angles, and can be inattentive off the ball.  Relies on athleticism more than solid positioning.  Not a bad, but an erratic defender.  It comes and goes, like his offense.  He's looked de-mojo-ed the past couple weeks, I was wondering if it's mental or physical.

Looking at SF stats, DEF Real +/-

1. DeAndreHuntress
2. Cam Johnson
3. LeBronco
4. Reg Bollocks
5. Kawhy
6. Andre Iggy

Which is why Bullox starts . . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 08, 2021, 04:41:27 AM
Was just looking around quickly for some trade candidates.
Osman having a down year, Cavs might want to get younger (Knox).
Cavs could really use a defensive PG/combo guard.  Maybe could talk themselves into Rivers(?)  Not that likely, but not far-fetched.

Knox doesn't have high value right now.
I assume everybody would trade Knox for either Bridges or of course Porterhouse Jr.  Really Mikal Bridges is a long-armed defensive ball of energy, who makes plays.  A winner as he was repped to be.  No idea why Philly traded him away draft night.

Maybe Knox/Rivers doesn't get you much.  I'd take Pa Bev or Reg Jax, but Clips probably don't do it, and it would have only made sense before trading for Rose anyway.

I'll try to look for a genuine trade when I have a chance. 
Right now, I'd trade ObiT for Cam Johnson (or Bridges).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 08, 2021, 04:48:06 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 08, 2021, 04:41:27 AM
Was just looking around quickly for some trade candidates.
Osman having a down year, Cavs might want to get younger (Knox).
Cavs could really use a defensive PG/combo guard.  Maybe could talk themselves into Rivers(?)  Not that likely, but not far-fetched.

Knox doesn't have high value right now.
I assume everybody would trade Knox for either Bridges or of course Porterhouse Jr.  Really Mikal Bridges is a long-armed defensive ball of energy, who makes plays.  A winner as he was repped to be.  No idea why Philly traded him away draft night.

Maybe Knox/Rivers doesn't get you much.  I'd take Pa Bev or Reg Jax, but Clips probably don't do it, and it would have only made sense before trading for Rose anyway.

I'll try to look for a genuine trade when I have a chance. 
Right now, I'd trade ObiT for Cam Johnson (or Bridges).

Oh, brother.  Cut back on the soy sauce. 

Nighty Night. 

PS: DeAndre Hunter just had meniscus surgery.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 08, 2021, 07:06:56 AM
Actually this year's Batum would have been perfect for these Knix.
He's played terrific all-around hoops, and has been a key player for LAC.
Really nice to see him bounce back.

Hunter expected to miss just 2-3 weeks.  Rather small surgery, but who knows, that sounds rather optimistic.  An op for Cam Reddish to step up.  The guy is basically a mess, but an athletic hot mess.  I haven't had a chance to see more than 2 minutes of Okongwu so far.  Hunter is the key guy for ATL.  Keeps that team humming.  We'll see if they can avoid a collapse without him. 

IQ leads all rooks in PER, followed by LaMelo and TyH
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 08, 2021, 09:19:17 AM
Why you gonna bring up that Quickly PER? It's the secret classified stuff.

*** reveal. with the excision of DSjr from the roster, Elf is now dead last in PER among the 4 NYKnick PGs..but kiid will never tell you that, despite his promises, because cowardice has always been his #1 defining trait!

My friend in Dayton was rattling my cage about this Obi sequence:

https://twitter.com/HoopsSupply/status/1358778321249726465 (https://twitter.com/HoopsSupply/status/1358778321249726465)

Hopefully D Rose may prove adept at spotting him running the baseline
Title: Bo In The Know
Post by: chipstern on February 08, 2021, 09:38:32 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 08, 2021, 07:06:56 AM
Actually this year's Batum would have been perfect for these Knix.
He's played terrific all-around hoops, and has been a key player for LAC.
Really nice to see him bounce back.

Hunter expected to miss just 2-3 weeks.  Rather small surgery, but who knows, that sounds rather optimistic.  An op for Cam Reddish to step up.  The guy is basically a mess, but an athletic hot mess.  I haven't had a chance to see more than 2 minutes of Okongwu so far.  Hunter is the key guy for ATL.  Keeps that team humming.  We'll see if they can avoid a collapse without him. 

IQ leads all rooks in PER, followed by LaMelo and TyH

Yes. They have all been terrific.  I'd be a lying motherfucker if I tried to front as if I didn't look at Kings box scores every day...size and athleticism, scorer, facilitator, defender.  All the major food groups. 

Who knows.  For that matter, who knows if we'd have still pursued IQ if we had taken Tyrese.  Can't have everything.  And we were not the only team to pass on him.  Detroit for one.  Wonder how they had Killian Hayes rated a better fit for their team.  Go figure. 

As fate would have it, IQ and Obi a nice nod to our future. 

I was arguing with our old pal Nagel, who texted me a trade phantasy, then wondered why I did not reply. 

Knox & Ntilikina and Dallas' 2021 #1 for Zach Levine. 

When he pushed me, I did not respond in the affirmative, and chided him for reminding me of those halycon days when the Knicks traded the #5 and #8 picks in the draft for Gerald Henderson and Juuwan Oldham. 

And I really like Zach Levine.  Not a great defender, but he can sure fill up a box score. 

But so far I like that the Knicks appear to have recovered from their nasty habit of dealing away all of their draft picks on shiny objects. 

The trades that stockpiled draft picks and somehow transformed Ed Davis into multiple #2's and Alex Burke seemed prudent rather than garish.  And transforming the earthly remains of Dennis Smith and Charlotte's #2 [from the Hernan-Gomez transaction] into Derrick Rose seems a modest roster move with an eye on making Thibs happy, making IQ and Obi better, and battening down the hatches for a playoff ascent. 

And that #1 from Dallas, even if they do not scrape bottom, which is unlikely, unless both KP AND Luka go down, at the very least looks to be a mid-first rounder. 

And again, while Wes and DeAndre and Dennis are all gone, the cap space we saved by not maxing out KP, and by divesting ourselves of Timmy and Courtney, continues to pay long term benefits.  Julius and Immanuel [parlayed from Marcus], plus Derrick and Elfrid and Austin and Reggie and Nerlens and Taj and Alec, all on make good one year deals.

And we are still sitting on $15 Million in cap space.

By the way, your recurring 3&D phantasia?

Otto Porter's garish deal comes to an end this summer when he turns 28, and can probably be picked up relatively on the cheap.  Still an effective long range sniper and decent defender, though he hardly gets to the FT line, despite a good FT%. 

Still, let's see how Bullock and Burks and KK close out 2020. 

PS: And yes, Philly doolooping on Bridges made no sense then, and even less now, let alone that his Momma worked in their front office. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 08, 2021, 11:19:11 AM
Well, we know DET likes Knox.

A place we can revisit, maybe for another #2.

heh

Re"  Rose and three point shooting - looking at his enitre history - not so good

But taking the last 115+ games (3 seasons), .337.  Vs .515 on 2 pointers

This year it is .333 vs .450, meaning for every 20 threes taken Rose gets 20 points and for every 20 twos he gets 18.

Is he developing a stroke?  Taking better ones, as he is a bit wiser? I dont know - but at this juncture I dont call it a negative.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 08, 2021, 11:22:00 AM
Culver's a nice developing talent.  I dont think we get him for Knox.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 08, 2021, 11:31:00 AM
I think you absolutely take Osman if offered

CLE would need first to drop from the playoff picture.  I dont see this occuring - not with the uptick to TEN teams per conference.

CLE's reason to do it would be the savings of one year of Osman's deal and the possible addition of a juicy second rounder.  Do you want to give DET's 2 for '21 to get Cedi?

It would be Knox plus salary filler - then maybe you swap #2s.

Osman deal is 8 mil for '21-'22, then 7.2 mil for the following year.  3rd year would be our option
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 08, 2021, 11:53:25 AM
I assume everybody would trade Knox for either Bridges or of course Porterhouse Jr.  Really Mikal Bridges is a long-armed defensive ball of energy, who makes plays.  A winner as he was repped to be.  No idea why Philly traded him away draft night.


Not sure

Maybe Philly didnt think there would be playing time for Bridges, thus took the longer range player (Z Smith)

Sixers also have Miami's 2021 #1 from that deal.

Interesting that the Bridges pick was initially swapped when Steve Nash went to the Lakers

July 11, 2012: Traded by the Los Angeles Lakers (as a future 2018 1st round draft pick) with a 2013 1st round draft pick (Nemanja Nedović was later selected), a 2013 2nd round draft pick (Alex Oriakhi was later selected) and a 2014 2nd round draft pick (Johnny O'Bryant was later selected) to the Phoenix Suns for Steve Nash.

February 19, 2015: As part of a 3-team trade, traded by the Phoenix Suns (as a future 2018 1st round draft pick) to the Philadelphia 76ers; the Milwaukee Bucks traded Brandon Knight and Kendall Marshall to the Phoenix Suns; the Philadelphia 76ers traded Michael Carter-Williams to the Milwaukee Bucks; and the Phoenix Suns traded Tyler Ennis and Miles Plumlee to the Milwaukee Bucks.

June 21, 2018: Drafted by the Philadelphia 76ers in the 1st round (10th pick) of the 2018 NBA Draft.

June 21, 2018: Traded by the Philadelphia 76ers to the Phoenix Suns for Zhaire Smith and a 2021 1st round draft pick. (PHI receives MIA 2021 1st-rd pick from PHO.)

July 3, 2018: Signed a multi-year contract with the Phoenix Suns
Title: Rose Or A Thorn
Post by: chipstern on February 08, 2021, 03:57:09 PM
Lots of interesting back and forth on Rose. 

OBVIOUSLY, this is a THIBS-Driven move. 

"Oh, Thibs likes vets."

THIBS LIKES WINNING. 

He has taken us from the worst defensive team in the League to one of the best. 

D-Rose has never been known for his D, but THIBS in NYC has been pretty clear on that. 

YOU PLAY D OR YOU SIT. 

Thibs and Payne had been bringing Know along, big improvement as a sniper coming off the bench, but D lacking compared to the combination of shooting and D he was getting from Bullock and Burks, so...

"Oh, Thibs likes vets."

THIBS LIKES WINNING. 

Randle, Robinson, Barrett, Quickley.   Yute. 

Bullock, Burks, Payton, Rivers.  Vets.

Noel, Toppin.  Vets and youth. 

Knox, Ntilikina.  Out of the rotation. 

Rivers > Rose.  Austin soon to see his minutes decrease as he is supplanted in the 10 man rotation.  He started off so well, but has fallen off considerably.   

We all know how much Thibs loves RJ, but obviously he was displeased with something on Sunday vs the Heat, and RJ only played 19 minutes. 

I would expect no less from Rose. 

And we all know how much he loves Derrick, but don't be surprised if THIBS goes O > D with Rose > Payton as the situation calls for. 

A lot of the ROSE PARANOIA has revolved around him being ball dominant. 

THIBS has a system and believe me, DR will cleave to it. 

As per that ball dominance, we are used to seeing the ball in RJ & Julius' hands.  I would not expect that to be utterly sundered.  Derrick is there are Thibs behest. 

When Rose's presence will REALLY MATTER is in the fourth quarter, where all season long we have had trouble finding points.  Rose can create his own shot and break down the defense and get to the FT line AND CONVERT. 

It remains to be seen how much difference there is between his court vision and that of Elfrid and Rivers, regarding those Toppin back cuts, finding Mitch and Nerlens on pick and rolls, getting Randle and RJ the ball in stride, getting ball to IQ in rhythm, DRAWING COVERAGE. 

No one is pretending Rose is perfect, but he is a more skilled combo guard than anyone we currently have, no disrepect to Quick or RJ.  Just a fact. 

The agita about the ball sticking in Rose's hands?  It surely does, but he will have THIBS whispering in his ear, you can bet on that.  And there are times we will want it in his hands.  Not a three point shooter?  No shit Sherlock, though surely better than RJ or Elfrid.  No?  And the ball surely sticks in Austin's hands.  And HE DOESN'T GET TO THE FT LINE.  Nor convert at 80-85%. 

Elfrid is a pure point.  Derrick and IQ are combo guards with similar bodies and stylistic signatures.  I am thrilled that IQ will be practicing with and against Derrick. 

The idea that D-Rose is so selfish as to preclude all the team work and chemistry we have developed in the first third of the season? 

Jeez Louise. 

We currently don't have someone as skilled at CREATING OFFENSE IN THE FOURTH as D-Rose or at breaking down defenses and getting into the lane. 

We once thought Dennis Smith was going to be that guy. 

Didn't work out. 

Onwards. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 08, 2021, 05:21:18 PM
The Brooklyn Nets have signed free agent forward Noah Vonleh. Per team policy, terms of the deal were not released. – via NBA.com
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 08, 2021, 05:23:18 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 08, 2021, 05:21:18 PM
The Brooklyn Nets have signed free agent forward Noah Vonleh. Per team policy, terms of the deal were not released. – via NBA.com

Maybe now i'll have a reason to watch the Nets.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 08, 2021, 05:46:38 PM
My new favorite Nyet!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 08, 2021, 05:47:21 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 08, 2021, 05:23:18 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 08, 2021, 05:21:18 PM
The Brooklyn Nets have signed free agent forward Noah Vonleh. Per team policy, terms of the deal were not released. – via NBA.com

Maybe now i'll have a reason to watch the Nets.

(https://assets.ozy.com/ozy-prod/2020/03/gettyimages-904558604.jpg?crop=0px,276px,4038px,2271px&resize=600x337)
Title: Predictable PANIC Mongering
Post by: chipstern on February 08, 2021, 06:01:45 PM
https://nypost.com/2021/02/08/derrick-rose-trade-threatens-knicks-breakout-stars/ (https://nypost.com/2021/02/08/derrick-rose-trade-threatens-knicks-breakout-stars/)

Sigh. 

(https://33.media.tumblr.com/74a17e3ee7e4b53d0762c31124d4fbbd/tumblr_n4m069TrzR1qcd94wo1_500.gif)

When the legend supplants the bullshit, print the bullshit. 

Title: Re: Bo In The Know
Post by: elephant on February 08, 2021, 07:13:43 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 08, 2021, 09:38:32 AM

I was arguing with our old pal Nagel, who texted me a trade phantasy, then wondered why I did not reply. 

Knox & Ntilikina and Dallas' 2021 #1 for Zach Levine. 

When he pushed me, I did not respond in the affirmative

Okay, I'm behind your argument about Rose.

But turning down Levine at that price — which I suspect is a fantasy anyway — would be balmy.

Even just hesitating before you say yes is insane.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 08, 2021, 07:14:44 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 08, 2021, 05:21:18 PM
The Brooklyn Nets have signed free agent forward Noah Vonleh. Per team policy, terms of the deal were not released. – via NBA.com

I was just thinking "We could use this dude again" and looking up where he was playing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 08, 2021, 07:15:32 PM
Fuck the Nets.
Title: Re: Bo In The Know
Post by: chipstern on February 08, 2021, 07:45:45 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 08, 2021, 07:13:43 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 08, 2021, 09:38:32 AM

I was arguing with our old pal Nagel, who texted me a trade phantasy, then wondered why I did not reply. 

Knox & Ntilikina and Dallas' 2021 #1 for Zach Levine. 

When he pushed me, I did not respond in the affirmative

Okay, I'm behind your argument about Rose.

But turning down Levine at that price — which I suspect is a fantasy anyway — would be balmy.

Even just hesitating before you say yes is insane.

Pure phantasy, jacking off around a can of sterno. 

PS: We have RJ and IQ.  Patience, buttefly. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 08, 2021, 08:44:53 PM
Rose to give us some 4Q punch and mentor IQ.
That makes sense.
Title: Re: Bo In The Know
Post by: Kam on February 08, 2021, 09:23:19 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 08, 2021, 07:13:43 PM

Even just hesitating before you say yes is insane.

And hand the Bulls an unprotected potential lottery pick?  Of course I'm hesitating for the time it takes to counter with the 2023 Dallas pick.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 08, 2021, 09:25:09 PM
Jeez tuned in for the 4Q of a close CHA-HOU game and Rockettes fall apart (wall out).
A Hornettes 19-1 run to start the 4Q.
Ouch.

RJB impacts winning at least as much as Zach Lavine . . .
Title: Derrick Rose's thoughts
Post by: Kam on February 08, 2021, 09:27:33 PM
https://www.instagram.com/p/CLDYN17jiAB/?igshid=kb3hcjnuug7n (https://www.instagram.com/p/CLDYN17jiAB/?igshid=kb3hcjnuug7n)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 08, 2021, 09:34:29 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 08, 2021, 09:25:09 PM
RJB impacts winning at least as much as Zach Lavine . . .


Which is why it would be nice to have two of them.

The way it’s structured, we could lockup Randle then extend Lavine the year after.

Mitch Randle RJ Zach IQ. I’d worry about the backcourt D, but otherwise it’s pretty good. You get your three picks while still having options to retain important supporting players who can carry forward their roles.

Quote from: Kam on February 08, 2021, 09:23:19 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 08, 2021, 07:13:43 PM

Even just hesitating before you say yes is insane.

And hand the Bulls an unprotected potential lottery pick?  Of course I'm hesitating for the time it takes to counter with the 2023 Dallas pick.

I like this approach better and would even sweeten it with a future second rounder in a year we have multiples.

If we draft a great guard who develops, Zach or IQ could find themselves in the D Rose / Lou Wil seat as the microwave second unit leader down the line.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 08, 2021, 09:46:26 PM
Zach gonna be looking for a near-max deal.
You want to pay him $25M - $27M a year?

Could Thibs get ZeeLaVee to play acceptable D?
Title: Your Dallas Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on February 09, 2021, 12:58:08 AM
KP with a big game for a change, 27 points, 13 rebounds and 6 blocks. I still don’t want him back.
Timmy Jr. not bad with 24 points.
Trey unremarkable as usual, with 5 points in 8 minutes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 09, 2021, 04:10:24 AM
I’m making an exception offer to Semi Ojeleye next year when he’s a UFA & give an Austin Rivers type offer for Taco. We’ve also got to extend Mitch.

Mitch Noel Taco
Randle Obi Semi
Bullock Burks
Barrett
Quickley Rose

Add three rookies and one more free agent, heat and stir.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 09, 2021, 04:24:57 AM
We could certainly use a 3&D SF, especially one who can toggle between both F spots.

Ojeleye is interesting.  His given name is Jesusemilore.
His shooting %'s are really poor so far this year.

Anyone have a lost of UFA's and RFA's for next season?

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 09, 2021, 04:37:24 AM
LaMelo is 21/40 on 3's in his last 6 games.
Up to 36% on the season.
Putting up some real nice numbers across the board.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 09, 2021, 10:32:06 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 08, 2021, 09:46:26 PM
Zach gonna be looking for a near-max deal.
You want to pay him $25M - $27M a year?


I think you make the deal for what it is worth now

When it comes to re-signing, THEN is when you make a judgment.  Sign and trade also on the table, I'd think if you do not agree with the player's reps on his $$ value - or if you simply want to part company.

The 19 mil he makes now is a pretty solid number to hold for next year's roster, given what the player will give you.

My guess is in a room of ten Knicks higher ups when the question is asked - "So, Levine - are we interested?" - you get TEN "Absolutely".

Deal, as most are - is price determinant.

Shouldnt we be looking at the rest of their roster?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 09, 2021, 10:33:21 AM
FREE AGENTS

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/2021/center/#:~:text=2021%20NBA%20Free%20Agents%20%20%20%20Player,%20%20%249%2C489%2C450%20%2033%20more%20rows%20
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 09, 2021, 11:01:24 AM
Quote from: elephant on February 08, 2021, 07:14:44 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 08, 2021, 05:21:18 PM
The Brooklyn Nets have signed free agent forward Noah Vonleh. Per team policy, terms of the deal were not released. – via NBA.com

I was just thinking "We could use this dude again" and looking up where he was playing.

Why do you think we need Vonleh?  Would you be looking for him to take the Toppin minutes?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 09, 2021, 11:07:52 AM
Markanen is a nice player.
Maybe if he has another season of being dinged up and erratic, he could become available.  be a nice fit on NYK.

As for FA's:
Rich Holmes only makes $5M?  A bargain.  Not much of a defender, but he's hustles and bangs and is everywhere.  I really enjoy his game/effort level.

Wonder how much Theis will get(?)

I didn't realize Torrey Craig was already 30.  Joined the NBA at 27.

Bjelica?  Jabari?
Can't say I'm excited about either.

Uber is having a rough season so far.  And he's more of a driver and cutter than 3-pointer.  So not really what we need.  He's really been off on everything including finishes, where he misses layups and even dunks regularly.   Not sure what's up with him.

Otto Porter.
Why isn't this guy more impactful?  Seems to have the tools.
Health issues apparently.
Interesting for his 3&D-ness

PJ Tuck is 36.
James Johnson 34.

Batum just 32.

Caruso is a more consistent Au Rivers.  Wonder how much he'll get.

I don't know Jerome Robinson or Kablenge.

I've watched Giles a bit this year, and he's very inconsistent and his confidence comes and goes.  Hands are suspect.  Still just 23, but a tease and kind of frustrating.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 09, 2021, 11:10:21 AM
We could use another F in case Uncle Julius misses some games.

Though I'd be fine just running ObiT and slotting Knox into the rotation.  Not like we're going for a title.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 09, 2021, 12:31:56 PM
So indications are Payton will be dangled in deal.

I would expect us to look to package him with a pick to get a player rather than just deal Elf FOR a pick

I think a straight Rose in, Payton out swap is unwise.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 09, 2021, 12:34:11 PM
Re. Next year FA

Tucker did stand out to me as a guy who could help

I didn't consider the top 3 current earners at forward, PORTER, ALDRIDGE and OUBRE
Title: GTJ
Post by: Kam on February 09, 2021, 02:27:08 PM
Gary Trent Jr (22yrs old, 6'5", 14pt per game 43.6% 3pt) is a RFA and the over-the-cap Blazers are going to have to think hard about matching any offer.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 09, 2021, 02:50:05 PM
Favorite Trent stat -

just 37 turnovers in 96 career games
Title: Mary Wilson--Rest In Peace & Power
Post by: chipstern on February 09, 2021, 03:13:18 PM
(https://e3.365dm.com/21/02/768x432/skynews-mary-wilson-the-supremes_5266606.jpg?20210209090303)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 09, 2021, 03:25:17 PM
Word Chip.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 09, 2021, 03:51:20 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 09, 2021, 03:25:17 PM
Word Chip.

All of that music changed my life.

And I had such a crush on Mary Wilson, like a cool breeze on a clear summer day. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 09, 2021, 04:16:51 PM
There was a woman my mother worked with at the DOE named Violet who reminded me a lot of her.
Title: Young’un
Post by: carlos123 on February 09, 2021, 05:36:01 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 09, 2021, 04:16:51 PM
There was a woman my mother worked with at the DOE named Violet who reminded me a lot of her.

Fac, you’re telling Chip, and me and even Chamaco that you’re a generation younger than us.

Go and flaunt it while you can, you young’un 👶🏻
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 09, 2021, 05:54:36 PM
Would it help to mention that it was the BOE back then and Mr. Dinkins was my Mayor?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 09, 2021, 08:17:12 PM
Rose 2 Toppin....Yes!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 09, 2021, 09:06:29 PM
Celtics vs Jazz  10 PM   TNT
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 09, 2021, 09:44:49 PM
Elfrid, please.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 09, 2021, 10:13:17 PM
We are 4 points better without DSJ.

I like the potential of our new rotation.

The Heat are still pretty good.

Ball don’t lie was in full effect tonight.

The Refs voted for Heat jerseys over Knicks jerseys consistently and decisively.

People who can do things should take note.

We need every competitive edge, even if that means dressing in fairy vomit to get calls like Miami does. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 09, 2021, 10:17:05 PM
Er, I only saw the 4Q collapse.
Physical high energy game.

Butler 13-15 on FT's, but missed two in the last few minutes.

Maybe Randle as our go-to guy on a night when he is off (and defended by a stud) isn't the best idea.  Quix got an easy bucket and RJB nearly did as well.  i think Clyde is right, RJ needed to go for contact since Butler was so close to him on the driving layup.

Missed op for a W.
Give MIA credit. Olynyk and Hero bombed in crucial late 3's.  Knix don't have the shooters (an Elf missed 3 in the last few minutes was Knix only late 3-ball).
Title: Re: Young’un
Post by: carlos123 on February 09, 2021, 10:27:05 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 09, 2021, 05:54:36 PM
Would it help to mention that it was the BOE back then and Mr. Dinkins was my Mayor?

It's ok Fac, that means you were a kid or a teenager in 1990 while we were adults.

Still a young’un by comparison.

Back to Knicks, very entertaining game. Too bad we ain't very good in the 4th!

The combo Rose/IQ looks promising. We still need 3 pt. shooters.
Title: Nit Pickers
Post by: chipstern on February 10, 2021, 12:06:05 AM
People moaning about the Rose Trade.

Like, DUH. 

I was thrilled by that game. 

Even with Julius having an off night and the refs fucking us up the ass without the common courtesy of a reach around, so many wonderful takeaways. 

The Knicks are a work in progress, and so many miles to go.

But the entrance of the Rose-Quickley back court and the subsequent 25-6 run?  DRose was simply inspired, and even though the fruit wasn't falling for IQ, the sheer joy on his face, like, DAMN, I'M OUT HERE WITH DERRICK ROSE. 

That may have been the most eventful 5-8 minute Knicks debut since Latrell Sprewell's first preseason game. 

Derrick is in the Ron Harper autumn of his career, so he is a bench player, good for 20-25 minutes a night max. 

But he looked brilliant.  HAPPY.  In Command.  Not sure when I yelled louder.  When he hit a pair of threes.  When he made a steal.  Or the look on Obi's face when DR hit him in stride on the back cut.  DAMN. 

Two days of practice until Friday's game with the Wizards. 

Cannot believe that Perry & Perrin Inc. got DR for next to nothing. 

PS: Derrick's thoughtful and spiritual post game reasoning behind why he chose the numer 4 was sublime. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dTGDZxC5_M&fbclid=IwAR3xfgiALfkN0dO1w96MvD8gyvClNpSZDP4T2CE3gHXsfWrWW8JSmUZqevU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dTGDZxC5_M&fbclid=IwAR3xfgiALfkN0dO1w96MvD8gyvClNpSZDP4T2CE3gHXsfWrWW8JSmUZqevU)

PPS: Derrick [4].  Immanuel [5].
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 10, 2021, 12:08:58 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 09, 2021, 10:27:05 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 09, 2021, 05:54:36 PM
Would it help to mention that it was the BOE back then and Mr. Dinkins was my Mayor?

It's ok Fac, that means you were a kid or a teenager in 1990 while we were adults.

Still a young’un by comparison.

Back to Knicks, very entertaining game. Too bad we ain't very good in the 4th!

The combo Rose/IQ looks promising. We still need 3 pt. shooters.

If you’ve got laps on me Los, you are indeed young at heart.
Title: Young’un
Post by: carlos123 on February 10, 2021, 01:16:09 AM
That’s a nice compliment from a young’un, Fac.
Thank you 😊
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 10, 2021, 03:15:09 AM
Closers might be Mitch Julius RJ Burks and Rose. Thibs will take a few games to work it out.

I need Payton to either hit open shots or cut down his turnover mistakes. Both would be great, but either one would make him a predominately positive player instead of being so hit or miss.

You really shouldn’t be feeling your way into how you want to close a game against a team like the Heat. They will smoothly find that other gear and things will be very tough.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 10, 2021, 05:46:53 AM
The addition of DRose puts Knix in a position to trade Rivers or Elf.
And NYK certainly willing to listen to offers for Franc and Knox.

POR comes to mind as the first team that needs a backup PG.
They could use Franc or Elf's defense.
They have Nassir Little ('10 #25 pick; 6'5" chunky SF), Elleby ('20 2nd rounder; 6'6" energy SF) and Giles as surplus.
I just saw Elleby have a nice active game v. PHI, but it was pretty much his career high in everything nearly doubling his season/career minutes.
I've seen little of Little; Giles a decent young banger who needs better focus.
I'd like to get somebody more in the 6'7-6'8" range, who plays D.

Maybe a Simons trade.  Simons is becoming a solid gunner and scorer, but rarely passes.  But with Derrick Jones and Melo, POR probably doesn't want/need Knox.

Would POR do ELF & Franc for Simons + Elleby?
That would get both teams what they need.
POR G defense; Knix outside shooting.

The other option I'm less fond of:
Knox & Franc for Simons & Little/Elleby.
Both teams would have to think about it.

Knix get a young 3-point sniper. Either their long-term SG or a bench flamethrower. 
POR gets a defensive G.
POR gets to develop Knox (under Melo tutelage);
NYK takes a flyer on Little or Elleby.
Title: #4
Post by: chipstern on February 10, 2021, 12:33:03 PM
KC Johnson: Derrick Rose on No. 4:”My birthday is on the 4th. Me and my closest friends, there’s four of us. My Mom had 4 kids. My daughter’s BD is on the 4th. If you look in the Bible, the 4th day was all about creation. And it’s the emperor card if you look that up. It just called my name” – via Twitter KCJHoop
Title: #4 & #5
Post by: chipstern on February 10, 2021, 12:35:21 PM
Ian Begley: Derrick Rose on Immanuel Quickley: “He’s a dog. He’s a dog. I can’t explain it. You’ve got to be a player to understand it. We’re in a fight, I know he’s fighting.” Rose and Quickley were on the floor together for long stretches in Tuesday’s 98-96 loss to MIA. – via Twitter IanBegley
Title: Just A Sittin & A Rockin
Post by: chipstern on February 10, 2021, 12:59:31 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 10, 2021, 05:46:53 AM
The addition of DRose puts Knix in a position to trade Rivers or Elf.
And NYK certainly willing to listen to offers for Franc and Knox.

POR comes to mind as the first team that needs a backup PG.
They could use Franc or Elf's defense.
They have Nassir Little ('10 #25 pick; 6'5" chunky SF), Elleby ('20 2nd rounder; 6'6" energy SF) and Giles as surplus.
I just saw Elleby have a nice active game v. PHI, but it was pretty much his career high in everything nearly doubling his season/career minutes.
I've seen little of Little; Giles a decent young banger who needs better focus.
I'd like to get somebody more in the 6'7-6'8" range, who plays D.

Maybe a Simons trade.  Simons is becoming a solid gunner and scorer, but rarely passes.  But with Derrick Jones and Melo, POR probably doesn't want/need Knox.

Would POR do ELF & Franc for Simons + Elleby?
That would get both teams what they need.
POR G defense; Knix outside shooting.

The other option I'm less fond of:
Knox & Franc for Simons & Little/Elleby.
Both teams would have to think about it.

Knix get a young 3-point sniper. Either their long-term SG or a bench flamethrower. 
POR gets a defensive G.
POR gets to develop Knox (under Melo tutelage);
NYK takes a flyer on Little or Elleby.

(https://media.tenor.com/images/58238a43cfe8b2562e9c98bdf9742519/tenor.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 10, 2021, 01:12:32 PM
The addition of DRose puts Knix in a position to trade Rivers or Elf.


Would not be prudent if trying to max out wins.
Title: Re: Just A Sittin & A Rockin
Post by: carlos123 on February 10, 2021, 01:19:03 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 10, 2021, 12:59:31 PM
(https://media.tenor.com/images/58238a43cfe8b2562e9c98bdf9742519/tenor.gif)

Why, you ask?

Cause BoZ just can’t help himself 😁
Title: Sugar Pie Honey Bunch
Post by: chipstern on February 10, 2021, 02:11:49 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 10, 2021, 01:19:03 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 10, 2021, 12:59:31 PM
(https://media.tenor.com/images/58238a43cfe8b2562e9c98bdf9742519/tenor.gif)

Why, you ask?

Cause BoZ just can’t help himself 😁

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3bksUSPB4c (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3bksUSPB4c)
Title: Guess What
Post by: chipstern on February 10, 2021, 02:32:29 PM
Malika Andrews: NY Gov. Andrew Cuomo has announced that sports venue can re-open at 10 percent capacity on Feb. 23. Fans must return a negative PCR test within 72 hours of an event. Masks and social distancing will be required, along with temperature checks. – via Twitter malika_andrews
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 10, 2021, 02:59:50 PM
Let's go!


https://www.foxnews.com/sports/nba-requiring-national-anthem-mark-cuban-mavs-games
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 10, 2021, 03:21:40 PM
Yeah, why would we try to get better?
You think the front office added Rose and is done?

We have 3 PG's -- Elf, Rose & IQ & 3 SG's -- RJB, Burks, Rivers.
Franc is well out of the rotation.  So is Rivers for now.
If we can trade some surplus G's for a 3-point shooter or an energy F, we should look into it. 

Rose has to be happy to get out of DET.
Looked good in the 1st game of his 2nd tour.
Though has to learn not to expect Nawlins to catch anything on the move, except for lobs which can be dunked.

1st half was a pretty wild game of runs.
NY bench did real well.

MIA really zooms around on D, switching everything, doubling, etc.
Knix starters 4-15 on 3's ...

One thing I'd do differently than Thibs is the minutes.  RJB's are down recently. 
But Randle for 37 mins in a game where he was really off?
Free Obi!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 10, 2021, 03:26:47 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 10, 2021, 03:21:40 PM
Yeah, why would we try to get better?
You think the front office added Rose and is done?

We have 3 PG's -- Elf, Rose & IQ & 3 SG's -- RJB, Burks, Rivers.
Franc is well out of the rotation.  So is Rivers for now.
If we can trade some surplus G's for a 3-point shooter or an energy F, we should look into it. 

Rose has to be happy to get out of DET.
Looked good in the 1st game of his 2nd tour.
Though has to learn not to expect Nawlins to catch anything on the move, except for lobs which can be dunked.

1st half was a pretty wild game of runs.
NY bench did real well.

MIA really zooms around on D, switching everything, doubling, etc.
Knix starters 4-15 on 3's ...

One thing I'd do differently than Thibs is the minutes.  RJB's are down recently. 
But Randle for 37 mins in a game where he was really off?
Free Obi!

Right.  Deals are in motion.  For sure. 

Let's just ask how your trade makes us better? Squanders assets in my estimation. 

Am I opposed to shopping Frank and/or Kevin?

No.

But I think your deal is lame, but then, I'm a weak minded pom pom gurl.  Guilty as charged. 

Hey, the other day you were willing to trade Obi for a bag of magic beans. 

We are not moved. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 10, 2021, 04:35:56 PM
One thing the Rose trade showed is the Knicks FO isn't the easy mark is used to be.  Detroit supposedly wanted Knox.  Leon said no.  Then they asked for their #2 back.  Leon said no to that as well.  Refreshing to not be taken to the cleaners Walsh/Grunwald style.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 10, 2021, 04:47:39 PM
Let us not lose sight of...

Barrett can play some 3 - and he can SIT at times as well (as we have seen already)

12 goes fine into 10.  No need to clip the troops.  Let them all enjoy the process.
Title: Predictions?
Post by: Kam on February 10, 2021, 05:03:57 PM
(https://i.redd.it/ufg8dniixng61.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 10, 2021, 05:44:32 PM
ObiT for Cam Johnson (just 2 years older)
Pretty sure PHX says NO.
Title: Re: Sugar Pie Honey Bunch
Post by: carlos123 on February 10, 2021, 05:56:19 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 10, 2021, 02:11:49 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 10, 2021, 01:19:03 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 10, 2021, 12:59:31 PM
(https://media.tenor.com/images/58238a43cfe8b2562e9c98bdf9742519/tenor.gif)

Why, you ask?

Cause BoZ just can’t help himself 😁

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3bksUSPB4c (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3bksUSPB4c)

Thanks Chip, we oldies love The Four Tops 😻
Title: Dilemma
Post by: carlos123 on February 10, 2021, 07:34:21 PM
- Everything they are saying today is easily rebutted -
Chamaco Cartero

UPDATE
- Everything Chamaco is saying today is a laughable lie -
(https://img.etimg.com/thumb/width-1200,height-900,imgsize-153220,resizemode-1,msid-59197079/magazines/panache/how-a-persons-ethnic-background-can-spot-a-lie-in-him-reveals-new-study.jpg)

BUT
I love the one he made before

DILEMMA
What to do, oh what to do?

SOLUTION
Easy, I keep'em both!!! 😁
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 10, 2021, 07:39:49 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 10, 2021, 05:44:32 PM
ObiT for Cam Johnson (just 2 years older)
Pretty sure PHX says NO.

Of course

But maybe not in the summer if we sweeten it a bit
Title: Re: Dilemma
Post by: carlos123 on February 10, 2021, 07:50:34 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 10, 2021, 07:34:21 PM
- Everything they are saying today is easily rebutted -
Chamaco Cartero

UPDATE
- Everything Chamaco is saying today is a laughable lie -
(https://img.etimg.com/thumb/width-1200,height-900,imgsize-153220,resizemode-1,msid-59197079/magazines/panache/how-a-persons-ethnic-background-can-spot-a-lie-in-him-reveals-new-study.jpg)

BUT
I love the one he made before

DILEMMA
What to do, oh what to do?

SOLUTION
Easy, I keep'em both!!! 😁

Just thought I should put this below Chamaco's post in a new page...
Title: Your Dallas Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on February 10, 2021, 10:29:48 PM
Hey Kamster, sorry to report they won again, beat Atlanta by 1, mostly thanks to Luka.

Timmy's +10 cancelled out KP's -10, and Trey played only 5 minutes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 10, 2021, 10:43:09 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 10, 2021, 01:12:32 PM
The addition of DRose puts Knix in a position to trade Rivers or Elf.


Would not be prudent if trying to max out wins.

Couldn't disagree more strongly, my forum (co-) leading 33 W prediction goes +5 more if Elf is traded or becomes physically disabled at any point in the season...

***even if there are only 4 games left!
Title: Payton
Post by: carlos123 on February 10, 2021, 11:36:43 PM
But, my doggie 🐶, Elfrid is playing pretty good lately.
I believe it was last game that he scored more points than Julius.
And he’s been practicing threes privately.
True, he does it privately, but it’s only because when he did it in public people were laughing 😁
Title: Next 10 Games - Record Prediction
Post by: Kam on February 11, 2021, 01:10:59 AM
@ WAS
HOU
ATL
@ ORL
SAS
MIN
GSW
SAC
IND
DET

I rosily predict 7-3 over the next ten "easy" stretch of games.   

I'll take 6-4.  Any less and it's a bad sign for playoff hopes.

Anyone else got any predictions?
Title: Patience Butterflies
Post by: chipstern on February 11, 2021, 09:33:21 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on February 10, 2021, 10:43:09 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 10, 2021, 01:12:32 PM
The addition of DRose puts Knix in a position to trade Rivers or Elf.


Would not be prudent if trying to max out wins.

Couldn't disagree more strongly, my forum (co-) leading 33 W prediction goes +5 more if Elf is traded or becomes physically disabled at any point in the season...

***even if there are only 4 games left!

Sigh.  Very Trump of you. 

Derrick Rose is a dawg, but he is no longer a 35 minute a night dog. 

Elfrid has been just as motivated by the sound of IQ lapping at his loins as Derrick. 

Thibs will figure out how to balance his rotations, so as to get DR and IQ in for the final 5-8 minutes of the fourth quarter. 

But Rose will not have a running buddy, nor will he have gas left in the tank for the final 5-8, in the unlikely event that the Knicks concur with the spiteful groundlings, and assclowns [my bad, homie, MISTER ASSCLOWN] such as yourself who would sunder the team and the rotations to indulge your savage [okay, moronic] blood lust, denmanding a human sacrifice. 

Thibs is NOT going to toss Elfrid to the mob.  Hey, if EP wants, WANTS TO MOVE ON, he can speak to Perry, sunder his no trade clause, and green light a move to a team such as the Celtics or Clippers. 

But he strikes me as a prideful fellow, and while there is a ceiling on his game, and manifest limitations, a solid defender, who has benefitted from the Quickley competition, and will likley respond well to Rose's as well.  BY THE WAY, ASSHAT, er, MISTER ASSHAT, did it elude you that EP drained a three on Tuesday night?  Or that he led the Knicks in scoring, with 18-5-4.

Did we lose because of him? 

We lost [by one lousy basket] because the Heat's D was suffocating, they took Julius out of his game in the blocks, and forced him to shoot threes [1-7], and because of some truly bizarre refing [Knicks 12-16 from the line, the Heat, 32-39....HELLO].

You are revelling like Donald Trump in your fantasy of some plague of Egypt befalling Elfrid. 

There is a dynamic afoot in which the second unit challenges the first unit. AND THAT IS GOOD.

Noels-Toppin-Burks-Quickley-Rose

Robinson-Randle-Bullock-Barrett-Payton

Moving forward, in terms of chemistry and matchups, we have two viable units, and the possibility for mixing and matching come the fourth quarter. 

Am I opposed to trading Rivers, Payton, Ntilikina, Knox? 

Not if it makes us better.  Not if it gets us viable draft assets. 

Am I a proponent of Dawg spite trades?

No. 

Do I co-sign some of BoD's concoctions where we exchange our scrubs for Portland's scrubs?  Or we give up on Obi as if he were Jordan Hill? 

No. 

Despite all of the media and fan handwringing, the Rose trade immensely improved our second unit, showed dividends with Quickley and Toppin, and added a sonrous note of competition to our practices.  Likewise, all of the paranoia about IQ's development being stifled.  It would appear just the opposite is in play.  He has a new big brother and running buddy.  His minutes should increase, not decrease.  Likewise Toppin's by degrees, because we can't just keep rolling out Julius for 37 minutes a night--that WILL catch up with him.   

Let Thibs play with his Crayolas, and see if we can't march inexorably towards 33 wins and beyond, and knock on the playoff doors.  Elfrid is a part of that.  Derrick is a part of that.  WE ARE A PART OF THAT, and soon there will be 2000 live bodies screaming in the Garden. 

Patience Butterflies. 

PS: Speaking of Fantasy Island Scenarios, somehow I suspect that Frank and Kevin [and just for the sake of argument, Bullock, to clear space for RJ and Burks at SF] and Dallas' #1 does not get a Zach Levine deal done.  Not to mention, why the fuck would Chicago trade ZL.  He is their best player. 
Title: Re: Next 10 Games - Record Prediction
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 11, 2021, 11:35:19 AM
Quote from: Kam on February 11, 2021, 01:10:59 AM
@ WAS
HOU
ATL
@ ORL
SAS
MIN
GSW
SAC
IND
DET

I rosily predict 7-3 over the next ten "easy" stretch of games.   

I'll take 6-4.  Any less and it's a bad sign for playoff hopes.

Anyone else got any predictions?

That would put us at .500.

For what its worth, I see SIX not easy games in there
Title: Jared Harper 31 Points, 4-5 From Trey, 13 Assists, 7 Turnovers
Post by: chipstern on February 11, 2021, 01:00:13 PM
"Give up your strange obsession, Chip, it's only G League."

FUCK YOU. 

A roll of the dice? 

A developmental project.  Nothing ventured, nothing gained.  And assuming that Dennis, Frank, Austin and Elfrid may [MAY?] be in the process of being shopped around? 

Jared Harper was Leon Rose's very first roster move as Knick PooBah, having jettisoned Kadeem Allen and Alonzo Trier to open up 2-Way Deals for Jared Harper & Theo Pinson. 

Whatever did Leon and World Wide Wes see in this pit bull scaled jet ski? 

Ty Lawson? Isaiah Thomas?  Spud Webb?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUhbSbQ0Xek (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUhbSbQ0Xek)

Check out this video of Auburn taking it to Kentucky in the NCAA Tournament, as Jared bumps up against the likes of Tyler Herro and Immanuel Quickley. 

Proving? 

Not a damn thing. 

(https://www.nyknicksnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/Jared-Harper-960x720.jpg)

Save that Rose & WWW saw something they liked well enought to snatch up Jared off of waivers from the Suns, passing on the opportunity to sign Jared From Subway. 
Title: Re: Payton
Post by: elephant on February 11, 2021, 03:24:34 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 10, 2021, 11:36:43 PM
But, my doggie 🐶, Elfrid is playing pretty good lately.
I believe it was last game that he scored more points than Julius.
And he’s been practicing threes privately.

Practicing threes. I bet.

I have never seen an NBA guard miss this amount of wide-open-nobody-within-five-feet-cuz-they-know-he's-going-to-miss-threes.

That said, I like his game. If I just never saw him take another 3, I'd be happy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 11, 2021, 03:49:51 PM
So when Payton takes — and misses — that three with 2 minutes to go in a close game, I think, he should not be in there.

But I'm way more tolerant with Barrett and IQ. Sometimes there are glimpses of Barrett where he's a major force, just twisting and willing himself into a basket in the paint. Other times, even in his so-called good games in the last few weeks, he has a tendency to just recede into the background on the offense, invisible, deferential. At these times, it's like he has the mentality of a second-stringer (do no harm).

Yeah, he missed the winning shot last game. I'm glad he took the fucking thing. When his confidence eventually grows, and he more or less demands that shot, we will win lots of games.

Similarly with IQ, I just think the dude has unusual nerve and vision. I know, as a rookie, he's going to fuck up at times at the end. I don't care. I want him in there and...I prefer the ball in his hands.
Title: Re: Payton
Post by: chipstern on February 11, 2021, 03:59:20 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 11, 2021, 03:24:34 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 10, 2021, 11:36:43 PM
But, my doggie 🐶, Elfrid is playing pretty good lately.
I believe it was last game that he scored more points than Julius.
And he’s been practicing threes privately.

Practicing threes. I bet.

I have never seen an NBA guard miss this amount of wide-open-nobody-within-five-feet-cuz-they-know-he's-going-to-miss-threes.

That said, I like his game. If I just never saw him take another 3, I'd be happy.

I was startled when he made one the other night.

One-of-Two. 

I admire his grit and fortitude, and how Thibs has NEVER wavered in his support.  Bottom line?  He defends, and that counts for a lot with Thibs.  Knox has been shooting close to 40% on his threes, and his FT% is above 80%.  But his D is suspect, compared to Bullock and Burks and RJ, so he is the odd man out. 

Thibs' attitude is clear.  If you have an open shot, take it. 

You know, I loves me my Dawg, well, most of the time, but the hair on the back of my neck stands up, when somebody is annointed the official Knicks ScapeGoat and the groundlings pile the fuck on. 

Sometimes deservedly [Bargnini], sometimes NOT [Charlie Ward].  When Knicks fans used to contrast Charlie with Timmy Hardaway Senior, they used to obsess over Ward's obvious shortcomings.  But he was a tenacious defender, a good facilitator, and it took him a long time, but with each successive season, while never a facile shooter, he got pretty good from trey and the FT line, and in the Cinderella Strike Shortened '98-99 season, he averaged 2.1 steals a game, 5.4 assists and was .356% from trey. 

Elfrid?  Still a stinky shooter, but he is being aggressive getting to the rack, and while he is surely no finisher like RJ or Derrick, he is a threat, and curiously averaging more FGAs than at any point in his career.  His FT% is hovering between .700-.710%, and when people point out that he was good for 7.2 assists last year compared to 3.8 this season, Julius is up to 5.8 from 3.1 last season, and RJ is to 3.0 from 2.6, so more people are distributing the rock. 

Anyway, having Immanuel and Derrick breathing up Elfrid's butt is a good thing.  He seems to respond well to competition. 

PS: Rooting for Dennis to do well for the Pistons. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 11, 2021, 04:00:52 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 11, 2021, 03:49:51 PM
So when Payton takes — and misses — that three with 2 minutes to go in a close game, I think, he should not be in there.

But I'm way more tolerant with Barrett and IQ. Sometimes there are glimpses of Barrett where he's a major force, just twisting and willing himself into a basket in the paint. Other times, even in his so-called good games in the last few weeks, he has a tendency to just recede into the background on the offense, invisible, deferential. At these times, it's like he has the mentality of a second-stringer (do no harm).

Yeah, he missed the winning shot last game. I'm glad he took the fucking thing. When his confidence eventually grows, and he more or less demands that shot, we will win lots of games.

Similarly with IQ, I just think the dude has unusual nerve and vision. I know, as a rookie, he's going to fuck up at times at the end. I don't care. I want him in there and...I prefer the ball in his hands.

Rose & Quickley will be finishing future fourth quarters.  Thibs was fotzing around with his new toy. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 11, 2021, 04:50:13 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 11, 2021, 03:49:51 PM
So when Payton takes — and misses — that three with 2 minutes to go in a close game, I think, he should not be in there.



I said, "Elfrid, please" and they obliged.

Then they removed him and proceeded to lose the game
Title: Nightly Means Nightly, Rightly???
Post by: lesterluv on February 11, 2021, 05:01:58 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 11, 2021, 03:59:20 PM

You know, I loves me my Dawg, well, most of the time, but the hair on the back of my neck stands up, when somebody is annointed the official Knicks ScapeGoat and the groundlings pile the fuck on. 


You know I'm really busting on the forum imbecile and his inane, each-one-stupider-than-the-prior pronouncements harder than I am on the Elfrid.

Nothing against him really, in fact, he's got one of my favorite names in the whole league. But his ceiling is so low ya gotta limbo down not to be beheaded by it -- he cannot, and will never be able to shoot, tries on D only half the time unless pressed, (he is very pressed now, boy o boy), has an unfortunate skill set match with much of the rest of the team, and is simply far less enjoyable to watch than all of the other options.

That said, I hope he keeps rising to the competition and fetches us as many second rounders as is humanly possible when the time finally gets right to ship him out. The Garden will be a more pleasing place once it happens.

*** and that boy better be cooking cause fans are finally coming back to MSG and most are far less civilized than the dawgLUV:    https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamzagoria/2021/02/10/new-york-to-begin-allowing-fans-at-madison-square-garden-barclays-center-on-feb-23/?sh=23fa91e8433c
 (https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamzagoria/2021/02/10/new-york-to-begin-allowing-fans-at-madison-square-garden-barclays-center-on-feb-23/?sh=23fa91e8433c)


How that PG PER cooking kiid?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 11, 2021, 05:10:40 PM
Celtics 12-11 - home vs hot Raptors

Discuss.
Title: Think about it....
Post by: lesterluv on February 11, 2021, 05:19:38 PM
Who's gonna discuss anything with you? The conversation is pre-ordained.

Heh.

[promise]

Burp.

Fart.

Heh.

[broken promise]

Giuliani-style Long Wet Fart

Nocturnal emission.

15-minute pause to clean orange spunk off chin with UV light and a razor.


BE SERIOUS, peckerwood!
Title: Chick Corea, RIP
Post by: chipstern on February 11, 2021, 06:27:25 PM
(https://ca-times.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/bb0922d/2147483647/strip/true/crop/3072x2044+0+0/resize/840x559!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcalifornia-times-brightspot.s3.amazonaws.com%2F1b%2F23%2F3c409bff4058b608250cd733f855%2Fchick-corea-at-the-piano.jpg)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vc7FUQ8CZ0M (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vc7FUQ8CZ0M)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEhQTjgoTdU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEhQTjgoTdU)

Title: Re: Chick Corea, RIP
Post by: carlos123 on February 11, 2021, 06:47:24 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 11, 2021, 06:27:25 PM
(https://ca-times.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/bb0922d/2147483647/strip/true/crop/3072x2044+0+0/resize/840x559!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcalifornia-times-brightspot.s3.amazonaws.com%2F1b%2F23%2F3c409bff4058b608250cd733f855%2Fchick-corea-at-the-piano.jpg)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vc7FUQ8CZ0M (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vc7FUQ8CZ0M)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEhQTjgoTdU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEhQTjgoTdU)

O Lord, Could he ever play that piano!

Rest In Peace indeed
Title: Dawg GONE
Post by: chipstern on February 11, 2021, 06:49:50 PM
Elfrid is the Knicks Starting PG. 

Good

Bad

Indifferent

Thibs has handed him the keys to the car. 

Rose handed Thibs the keys to the car. 

Jimmy The Jizz handed Rose the keys to the car. 

ELFRID IS A OUR GUY.  He's A Knick. 

Would I rather have Steph Curry.  Walt Frazier.  Dick McGuire. 

He is competing for Thibs and representing our Knicks. 

Just as simple as that. 

Elfird & RJ

Derrick & Immanuel

These are the cats we are going to war with. 

Don't like him? 

Root for Kyrie Irving.  Light years better player.  Not even a discussion. 

And yet, the Nyets are losing a lot of winnable games against some pretty dubious teams. 

Go figure. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 11, 2021, 06:53:41 PM
heh
Title: Mr. heh
Post by: carlos123 on February 12, 2021, 12:59:02 AM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on February 11, 2021, 06:53:41 PM
heh

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3ckosSoTRHGXG4k-OCA2pVXfzewhXuzBYoGpsyMZVnzDq9ClI46oruQhbgSzQ9NiWcRnXh17QQU1T2E-x8FKtLT4EzHS0NTRyTH3a3D_76D71Q-i9VLGdWCOYKW1N7yNCrXtD_KYx0uYx_1P39yT7qh=w368-h570-no?authuser=0)

Quote from: ChamacoCartero8 on February 11, 2021, 06:53:41 PM
heh lol 😁
Title: Re: Next 10 Games - Record Prediction
Post by: Kam on February 12, 2021, 05:03:03 AM
Quote from: Kam on February 11, 2021, 01:10:59 AM
@ WAS
HOU
ATL
@ ORL
SAS
MIN
GSW
SAC
IND
DET

I rosily predict 7-3 over the next ten "easy" stretch of games.   

I'll take 6-4.  Any less and it's a bad sign for playoff hopes.

Anyone else got any predictions?

no takers on prediction?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 12, 2021, 05:12:47 AM
I'd done that about two weeks ago.  I think breaking it down at the time into two 8 game stretches.  It is our easiest stretch, almost all non-playoff teams and Home games. 

Overall, I think MIA will pass us by in the standings.
So NYK is probably fighting for 9th or 10 spot.
NYK probably equal or better than CHI and CHA.
I think we're better than CLE.  ATL better than us.
With WAS, DET, ORL bringing up the rear.
Though even WAS could get hot and make a run for 9/10.
Title: Beal
Post by: chipstern on February 12, 2021, 10:21:34 AM
BB not playing tonight against the Knicks. 

Odd.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 12, 2021, 10:35:35 AM
They're holding him out pending the trade for Elf ...

Odd POR-PHI game.
Lillard scores 19 in 1Q. 
Then PHI puts Simmons on him and he goes 1-11 in the 3Q & most of the 4Q (20 mins without a point).  Finishes with just 30.
But Melo scores 15 points early 4Q.  Mostly 3's, but also a leaning 20' banker as the shot clock ended.  Finishes with 17 4Q points.

Kanter battles Embiid all game, goes for 10 points, 14 boards, 5 stitches.
7 O-boards.  And probably another half dozen he got his hands on and almost secured.  At least twice Kanter missed putbacks, but drew so much attention that hood swooped in to putback the missed putbacks.

So Kanter and Melo willed POR to a W.
Covington with a steal on PHI last play to secure the W.
Gritty game.
Trent Jr reminds me of Paddy Mills, a 6'5" Paddy Mills.  Trent at 44% on 3's for the season.  Smoother player.  Unrufflable.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 12, 2021, 11:58:23 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 12, 2021, 10:35:35 AM
They're holding him out pending the trade for Elf ...

Odd POR-PHI game.
Lillard scores 19 in 1Q. 
Then PHI puts Simmons on him and he goes 1-11 in the 3Q & most of the 4Q (20 mins without a point).  Finishes with just 30.
But Melo scores 15 points early 4Q.  Mostly 3's, but also a leaning 20' banker as the shot clock ended.  Finishes with 17 4Q points.

Kanter battles Embiid all game, goes for 10 points, 14 boards, 5 stitches.
7 O-boards.  And probably another half dozen he got his hands on and almost secured.  At least twice Kanter missed putbacks, but drew so much attention that hood swooped in to putback the missed putbacks.

So Kanter and Melo willed POR to a W.
Covington with a steal on PHI last play to secure the W.
Gritty game.
Trent Jr reminds me of Paddy Mills, a 6'5" Paddy Mills.  Trent at 44% on 3's for the season.  Smoother player.  Unrufflable.

Figured As Much
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 12, 2021, 12:32:06 PM
No Beal?

Beware DENI AVDIJA statement game

Plenty of talent still out there (Hachimura, Ish, LEN, Bertans and of course Russ)

3 point specialist Garrison Matthews may also be a wild card
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 12, 2021, 01:55:49 PM
Tyler Hero out due to CV, so somebody possibly named Max Strus fills in and goes 5-8 on 3's, 21 points in 25 mins.  Where does MIA keep finding players?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 12, 2021, 03:12:57 PM
To get all ESPN Insider articles, merely replace www.espn.com with www.espn.in in the URL.  That is, replace the .com with .in

Just bookmark https://www.espn.in/nba/ and it's the full ESPN with all the Insider articles available.

Your welcome ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 12, 2021, 03:29:59 PM
Thanks!

But alas....that ain't working. At least from the USA.

(i.e. I still get the prompt to sign up for insider...)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 12, 2021, 03:32:16 PM
Though, you know, it is great to get the Indian spin on things.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 12, 2021, 03:33:41 PM
https://www.espn.in/nba/insider/story/_/id/30878172/ten-nba-things-like-including-ja-morant-brilliance

That doesn't work?
Works for me.
I'm catching up on the Zach Lowe Ten Things from the past few weeks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 12, 2021, 03:38:07 PM
Well, you'll be all ready for the next cricket convo that pops up among your friends ...
____________________________________________________________________
Quote
Boucher has blocked six 3-pointers in 11 games, per Second Spectrum.
Matisse Thybulle led all players with 21 3-point rejections last season.

Mitchell Robinson has the highest single-season total -- 24 -- since the introduction of tracking data in 2013.

Draymond Green has the most (76) in that span.

Boucher is on pace to block 39 3-pointers in 72 games!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 12, 2021, 04:12:44 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 12, 2021, 03:33:41 PM
https://www.espn.in/nba/insider/story/_/id/30878172/ten-nba-things-like-including-ja-morant-brilliance

That doesn't work?
Works for me.
I'm catching up on the Zach Lowe Ten Things from the past few weeks.

Nyet
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on February 12, 2021, 06:07:20 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 10, 2021, 05:46:53 AM
The addition of DRose puts Knix in a position to trade Rivers or Elf.
And NYK certainly willing to listen to offers for Franc and Knox.

POR comes to mind as the first team that needs a backup PG.
They could use Franc or Elf's defense.
They have Nassir Little ('10 #25 pick; 6'5" chunky SF), Elleby ('20 2nd rounder; 6'6" energy SF) and Giles as surplus.
I just saw Elleby have a nice active game v. PHI, but it was pretty much his career high in everything nearly doubling his season/career minutes.
I've seen little of Little; Giles a decent young banger who needs better focus.
I'd like to get somebody more in the 6'7-6'8" range, who plays D.

Maybe a Simons trade.  Simons is becoming a solid gunner and scorer, but rarely passes.  But with Derrick Jones and Melo, POR probably doesn't want/need Knox.

Would POR do ELF & Franc for Simons + Elleby?
That would get both teams what they need.
POR G defense; Knix outside shooting.

The other option I'm less fond of:
Knox & Franc for Simons & Little/Elleby.
Both teams would have to think about it.

Knix get a young 3-point sniper. Either their long-term SG or a bench flamethrower. 
POR gets a defensive G.
POR gets to develop Knox (under Melo tutelage);
NYK takes a flyer on Little or Elleby.


I like it but money-wise it don't work.

I've played with Knox and Rivers for Layman and Culver from Minny.

If Culver shows anything, move RJ over to SF and have Layman as a backup there. It just seems to balance the roster a bit more and the money angle works to Minny's advantage. 

Talent wise its a bit of a wash except for better its all the way around for both teams.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 12, 2021, 06:41:17 PM
Elf for Simons?

Elf and a 2nd for Simons?

Elf and a 2nd for Simons & Elleby?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 12, 2021, 07:01:08 PM
Stop.

Do we even know POR was one of the teams interested?

This one is DOA
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 12, 2021, 07:03:43 PM
POR needs a defensive G.
POR needs a backup PG (they have none).
Simons is playing well but Trent is better on both ends, making Simons expendable for a defense upgrade.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 12, 2021, 07:22:33 PM
Ok

But if you give Payton the 12 minutes per that Lillard sits that isn't leaving so much for Simon's.  I guess the current 4th guard could get axed altogether.  Leaves Anfernee the 14 non McCollum minutes
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on February 12, 2021, 09:02:14 PM
Robinson broke his hand ...what? tuned in late &  I missed the play...looks like he was having a good game
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on February 12, 2021, 09:29:20 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 12, 2021, 06:41:17 PM
Elf for Simons?

Elf and a 2nd for Simons?

Elf and a 2nd for Simons & Elleby?

You are sending expense in the direction of Portland in terms of Lux tax. Simons & Elleby together make nothing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on February 12, 2021, 09:29:32 PM
nice and expected W, but costly, I guess it's time for Noah to come out of retirement #gettingthebandbacktogether
Title: Mitchell & Rose
Post by: chipstern on February 12, 2021, 10:13:28 PM
We will be okay. 

We still have Noel and Taj. 

Also, we can go small with Julius at the 5 and Obi and Kevin at the 4.

Not ideal, but players will get minutes and the opportunity to step up and make a case for themselves. 

My GOD, but Derrick Rose is EFFICIENT.  Played great: in 20 minutes, 14 points on 7-11, 3 boards, 6 assists and, AND, 4 steals.  Obi has looked like a much more confident efficient player with Derrick looking out for him.  Game starting to slow down.  Avdija looked cool, but he is NOT a demonstrably significantly better player than Obi. 

Elfrid was solid 6-12 in 23 minutes.  Westbrook with a near triple double, but between Payton and Rose, Knicks did not go crazy on us. 

Quick clanged a lot of shots, but still got 16 on 2-7 from three and 4-4 FTs. 

Julius with a strong game overpowering everyone the Wiz threw at him: 24-18-4. 

PS: Porzingis with a monster game for Dallas for draft pick watchers. 

PS: Bertans?  Be careful what you wish for.  Pretty one dimensional for five years, $80 mil. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 13, 2021, 01:35:43 AM
Quote from: Jack Straw on February 12, 2021, 09:02:14 PM
Robinson broke his hand ...what? tuned in late &  I missed the play...looks like he was having a good game

I haven't seen the play, but I wasn't too surprised it involved contact with Randle.  Julius has been all Bill Cartwright out there, seemingly averaging one face-whack per game.

Knix need to re-sign Mitch.   He's scheduled to make just $1.8M next year.  That's peanuts in the NBA for anybody let alone a starter.  We've taken advantage of him being a 2nd rounder long enough. One genuine injury and his career could be over or his earning power largely erased.  He's proven out.  Knix gotta take care of him with significant guaranteed money.  Get some discount for letting him out of his $1.8M next year deal.  While making sure a Boozer situation doesn't occur.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 13, 2021, 02:29:33 AM
Funny game.  MItch started off in a complete funk on D.  Giving up three dunks by just not noticing a man behidn him (twice it was Len, Rob's mna, and the other time in transition with Elf pointing to the Big headign to the paint).

Then Mitch starts dunking everything on simple feeds from many Knix.
Wiz D rather porous.

Avidja looks savvy but just not aggressive enough.
Looks like he'd get good results if he just played a bit harder with more energy/grit.

Bertans was wildly overpaid, as was Kennard.  It's like that summer where a bunch of teams overpaid iffy C's (Mahinmi, Biyombo, etc).  Last Summer teams got panicky and overspent for SHOOTING.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 13, 2021, 04:51:25 AM
Speaking of shooting, Sadiq Bey notched 30 & 12 with 7 for 7 from deep. He might have a future in the league.
Title: If that was
Post by: lesterluv on February 13, 2021, 11:15:25 AM
the game that was supposed to make us regret Obi over Israeli...

Non, je ne regrette rien!

luv how D Rose is looking for Mr. Toppin, luv it!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 13, 2021, 11:19:09 AM
Nice.  I've been trying to keep an eye on Bey.

TyH was THE Pick ...

NYK smoked Wiz.  WAS looked incoherent on both ends.

Rose had a terrific game.
Much better to watch than Westbrook stink it up, go on a mini-tear, than stink it up again.
Burks didn't score but had 8 boards, 1 terrific assist, and a team high +21.

RJB slumping last 3 games.  Tired? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 13, 2021, 11:38:10 AM
Re:  Barrett

Lets not lose sight of the fact that he is NOT one of the desired types of Tommy Thibs (veterans)

That RJ would lose time to guys like Bullock, Burks and even Rivers as we move on is not outlandish speculation.

This does not diminish Barrett's value as we look to the following year.  It's just a "who can win for me now?" thing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 13, 2021, 02:01:51 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 13, 2021, 01:35:43 AM
Quote from: Jack Straw on February 12, 2021, 09:02:14 PM
Robinson broke his hand ...what? tuned in late &  I missed the play...looks like he was having a good game

Knix need to re-sign Mitch.   He's scheduled to make just $1.8M next year.  That's peanuts in the NBA for anybody let alone a starter.  We've taken advantage of him being a 2nd rounder long enough. One genuine injury and his career could be over or his earning power largely erased.  He's proven out.  Knix gotta take care of him with significant guaranteed money.  Get some discount for letting him out of his $1.8M next year deal.  While making sure a Boozer situation doesn't occur.

Yeah, that seems smart. And right. And appropriate.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 13, 2021, 02:05:07 PM
I have asked all along - how much are we giving Robinson? - as his value fluctuates.

Dealing him at peak could still be a possibility.
Title: Re: Mitchell & Rose
Post by: elephant on February 13, 2021, 02:05:53 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 12, 2021, 10:13:28 PM
We will be okay. 

We still have Noel and Taj. 

Also, we can go small with Julius at the 5 and Obi and Kevin at the 4.


But Noel has already missed games with injuries.

Who steps up if he goes down?

Yeah, we can go small for any particular game. But is that sustainable?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 13, 2021, 02:09:37 PM
I mean....

is it really too crazy to give Noah a call?

He's only been in retirement a month or so.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 13, 2021, 02:12:44 PM
Okay, okay, there's got to be better options.

Just a momentary thought. Back to work.....
Title: Re: Mitchell & Rose
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 13, 2021, 02:14:00 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 13, 2021, 02:05:53 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 12, 2021, 10:13:28 PM
We will be okay. 

We still have Noel and Taj. 

Also, we can go small with Julius at the 5 and Obi and Kevin at the 4.


But Noel has already missed games with injuries.

Who steps up if he goes down?

Yeah, we can go small for any particular game. But is that sustainable?

I expect Taj to play a big role, obviously.  He has earned it.

50-50 on if we bring someone else in.

Dont see Randle playing the 5 at this time.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 13, 2021, 03:21:32 PM
Quote
New York Knicks center Mitchell Robinson will undergo surgery on his fractured right hand and is expected to miss four to six weeks, sources told ESPN. Robinson suffered a fracture of the fourth metacarpal on the hand, sources said.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 13, 2021, 04:06:25 PM
Expirings:

https://hoopshype.com/lists/22-expiring-contracts-who-could-be-available-for-trade/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 13, 2021, 04:10:13 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 13, 2021, 02:09:37 PM
I mean....

is it really too crazy to give Noah a call?

He's only been in retirement a month or so.

Looking D (sorry...G) league

Is China ending soon, like last year?  Maybe look there as well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 13, 2021, 04:20:02 PM
Simisola Shittu is our most ready big right now at Westchester (over Skai and J Patton)

https://stats.gleague.nba.com/player/1629679/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 13, 2021, 04:59:22 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 13, 2021, 04:20:02 PM
Simisola Shittu is our most ready big right now at Westchester (over Skai and J Patton)

https://stats.gleague.nba.com/player/1629679/

Thanks. That's intriguing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on February 13, 2021, 09:21:31 PM
Never thought I would live to see a Knix team in the top three in defense. Just keep the softies on the bench.
Title: Luv it
Post by: carlos123 on February 13, 2021, 10:14:09 PM
Just love when we don’t have to suffer in the 4th Q

IQ!!!!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 13, 2021, 10:26:41 PM
That was beautiful.

Seems like our draft might pay dividends. We’ve assembled a talented group of guys and a very good staff.

I may have been more a Nancy than a pussy picking 32.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 13, 2021, 10:38:10 PM
Kudos to Bo on the 8 game call

4-2, 2 to go
Title: that was...
Post by: lesterluv on February 13, 2021, 11:23:28 PM
delicious AND nutritious!
Title: Re: that was...
Post by: carlos123 on February 14, 2021, 12:10:02 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on February 13, 2021, 11:23:28 PM
delicious AND nutritious!

Hey, my doggie, Elfrid Payton had another pretty good game. Also, he only took one trey and it was all net.

U warming up to him?

I mean, u a positive pussy after all...🐈
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 14, 2021, 12:49:29 AM
lol, don't get crazy now!

I'll admit he has somewhat warmed to the challenge of remaining in the league, but the really good stuff happened both halves when he stepped OFF the court.

***which is where he should still be most of the time if only for RJ's sake!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 14, 2021, 02:50:38 AM
Knix playing pretty well.  Two blowouts in a row.
Helpful that Beal and then Oladipo & Woods were out.

Knix have mostly avoided injuries (Burks missed some time) until Mitch went down.
And we've had no CV-disqualifications.  I wonder how many teams have had no players held out due to CV.

Speaking of Burks, good to see him (and RJB) contributing when their shot isn't falling.  While Derrick Rose continues to be 500% better than Austin Rivers.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 14, 2021, 12:02:30 PM
Rose has been amazing. It's wild how some aging athletes learn to compensate.

When you have a game where the Knicks have THREE guards playing well — and when was the last time that happened — we're not fucking bad.

BTW, IQ again showing his knack for making buckets when we need them.

For me, there's a real pleasure in seeing OBI coming around little by little...not too fast...but coming around indeed.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 14, 2021, 12:03:39 PM
Agreed.

Nice move grabbing Rose.

I think Thibs always saw this in the cards.

Still good to have Rivers at the ready.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 14, 2021, 12:14:30 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on February 14, 2021, 12:49:29 AM
lol, don't get crazy now!

I'll admit he has somewhat warmed to the challenge of remaining in the league, but the really good stuff happened both halves when he stepped OFF the court.

***which is where he should still be most of the time if only for RJ's sake!

LAME
Title: Backcourt Rotations
Post by: chipstern on February 14, 2021, 12:31:57 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 14, 2021, 12:02:30 PM
Rose has been amazing. It's wild how some aging athletes learn to compensate.

When you have a game where the Knicks have THREE guards playing well — and when was the last time that happened — we're not fucking bad.

BTW, IQ again showing his knack for making buckets when we need them.

For me, there's a real pleasure in seeing OBI coming around little by little...not too fast...but coming around indeed.

A little love for Kevin Knox too in GarBaaage Time.  Kid was not going to let this cameo go to waste. 

Off the bench, makes a steal, pass to Quickly, runs the floor, IQ lobs him the rock in transition, MonSter Jam. 

Runs the floor, sets in the half court, and as Obi makes a back cut on the base line, KK leads him with a perfect lob--Dinosaur Jam. 

Speaking of which, with Mitch out, Obi sees his minutes increase.  With DR on board in tandem with IQ in a suddenly resurgent second unit with Taj-Obi-Burks-IQ-DR, Obi getting the ball where he can work the low post, and do back cuts on the base line with a reasonable expectation that someone will see him.  Oh, and after two terrible three point bricks yesterday, UFOs that alighted about a foot to the left of the rim, Obi nailed a sweet three from the corner. 

Oh, and speaking of nailing open threes, every time Elfrid nails one, an angel gets its wings, and Dawg has a shit coniption.  Elf took one and made one yesterday.  Sorry Dawg.  As you were. 

Oh, and to Anti-Vaxxers and Anti-Elfrids alike, who wish to toss Elfrd under the bus. 

THIBS LIKEY, and has a rotation which makes him HAPPY, as in, we only lost by two to conference finalist Miami in a game where the refs fucked Thibs up the ass without the common courtesy to give Coach a reach around. 

Rose was not brought in to play Randle minutes.  He is 32 and has come back from terrible knee injuries. 

Derrick is in the Ron Harper stage of his career, and that is just fucking fine. 

Elfrid: 22 minutes, 15 points, 3 assists
RJ: 22 minutes, 7 points, 5 assists

Derrick: 23 minutes, 16 points, 3 assists
Immanuel: 22 minutes, 22 points, 2 assists

Thibs was desirous of a rotation in which to close out quarters and close out games with an elevated level of offensive efficiency. 

We are making significant progress, and believe me, it ain't just Dawg channeling his Inner Child, but Knicks fans carping about Payton when he is rising to the challengers and WE ARE WINNING FUCKING GAMES. 

EP & RJ take the starch out of their sails. 

DR & IQ apply the fire to their forecastle. 

Good test tomorrow, with Trae Young and the Hawks.  Quite keen to see IQ match up with TY. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 14, 2021, 12:37:30 PM
Knicks (16) and Mavs (17) have fallen from the lottery.

But that cant stand, can it?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 14, 2021, 12:41:33 PM
If anyone is dying to see the WIZ again (heh) - or better yet just looking for a game with football done and MLB not yet ready for spring games - 1 PM NBA TV vs Celtics

Boston is (gasp!) 13-12.  What willllll Danny do with the mess he has made?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 14, 2021, 12:43:53 PM
C position

First game post Mitch

NOEL (a key guy, always was) -   32:34

GIBSON -   15:26
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 14, 2021, 12:47:03 PM
Fun with PER 36


Last 5 games ELFRID has 74 points in just 138 minutes.

And did I see he hit a three last night?

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on February 14, 2021, 01:32:24 PM
really nice W and as noted esp., Q4...nice when faith gets rewarded...Rose coming in with the mentality he has is just YUGE!  I was skeptical as I viewed it through my orange and blue tinted glasses of the past in which graybeards would take time away from pups...clearly not the case....we finally have a coach and a FO more sagacious than the forum (no knock on the forum...)  - first time in many years...

the culture is changing...credit to the probiotic boys  Thibs & Rose - a real gut refresh....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 14, 2021, 01:53:14 PM
The second unit combines our rooks with 35 & 32 year old vets who came up under our coach and our best glue guy.

The first unit fights like hell on both ends. It isn't usually very pretty, but they bring a hell of a lot of fight. The torque is in the first unit. Max horses is found in the bench mob. This is a good dynamic that allows for mixing and matching during decisive stretches of the game.

We’ll see if this is approach is still effective against teams with their top scorers on the floor soon. I’m mainly optimistic about how that will go.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 14, 2021, 02:13:10 PM
Last 10 games:
Burks  24.9 mins  36.8%   34.7%
Bullox  24.9 mins  45.8%   45.0%

Their season FG%'s have converged.
Bullox now slightly ahead 41% to 40%
Burks 42.5% on 3's to Reg's 38.5% -- largely on Burks flamethrowing the first 3 games.
And of course, Bullox plays much better D.
Bullox has become a fairly reliable 1Q scorer.
And he looks good lately, moving well, especially on D.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 14, 2021, 02:19:01 PM
Wiz unsurprisingly look much better with Beal in the lineup.
They also freed Mo Vag, who got the start and has been quite good.

Avdija playing more forceful than usual.
Had a nice sequence end of 1Q.
Still can up his energy, but this was the best I've seen him so far.

Really like the Wiz grey unis with the flag design down the side.
White stars on dark blue for the jersey side panel.
With red and white stripes on the side of the shorts.
Looks sharp.  Nice way to rep DC.
Title: Re: Backcourt Rotations
Post by: elephant on February 14, 2021, 02:23:39 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 14, 2021, 12:31:57 PM

A little love for Kevin Knox too in GarBaaage Time.  Kid was not going to let this cameo go to waste. 

Off the bench, makes a steal, pass to Quickly, runs the floor, IQ lobs him the rock in transition, MonSter Jam. 

Runs the floor, sets in the half court, and as Obi makes a back cut on the base line, KK leads him with a perfect lob--Dinosaur Jam. 

Right on about that. Knox made the most of his brief scene and it was awesome.

Quote from: chipstern on February 14, 2021, 12:31:57 PM
Oh, and speaking of nailing open threes, every time Elfrid nails one, an angel gets its wings, and Dawg has a shit coniption.  Elf took one and made one yesterday.  Sorry Dawg.  As you were. 

You live dangerously. You really want to reference Elfrid's 3's because he actually made one? Best to stay away from that shit — it will only be a source of pain in the future. On to the gospel of his ability to penetrate and defend.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 14, 2021, 03:11:39 PM
Aren't we all aware of the problems they say Philly creates because Simmons wont TAKE any threes, even if this is not a developed skill of his?

And quite honestly - the masses still refusing to see that 30% still means 9 points every ten tries - or 45% - is puzzling.

Sure - the 40+ shooters are gold, since you are getting 12+ points per 10 shots - but 9 - especially when in short amounts - is livable.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 14, 2021, 03:30:53 PM
Knicks one game back of Celts (2 in loss column)

Brad on chopping block.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 14, 2021, 04:02:42 PM
Elfrid has hit mid30’s over a season at some point (326 twice, though he was shooting .372 after 44 games when he was traded from Orlando). It would be nice if he got back to that level. It would also be nice if he got himself up over 30%. I think it’s somewhat contingent on what we were asking him to do, which has gotten narrower and more focused under Thibs with this lineup. Hopefully as he sees them fall, more go in and fewer miss.

I found the 3-1 assists to TO’s more promising than the made 3. This can keep up if he leaves the tricky point guarding to the second unit guys.

Mitch needs to do a big study on Obi, Taj, and Noel while his hand mends. They are all three very good at helping ball handlers and creating opportunities by their movement off the ball.
Title: The theory commensals, aplasia, pro-atherogenic input.
Post by: osadikaxug on February 14, 2021, 04:57:47 PM
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Title: Re: Backcourt Rotations
Post by: chipstern on February 14, 2021, 07:11:26 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 14, 2021, 02:23:39 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 14, 2021, 12:31:57 PM

A little love for Kevin Knox too in GarBaaage Time.  Kid was not going to let this cameo go to waste. 

Off the bench, makes a steal, pass to Quickly, runs the floor, IQ lobs him the rock in transition, MonSter Jam. 

Runs the floor, sets in the half court, and as Obi makes a back cut on the base line, KK leads him with a perfect lob--Dinosaur Jam. 

Right on about that. Knox made the most of his brief scene and it was awesome.

Quote from: chipstern on February 14, 2021, 12:31:57 PM
Oh, and speaking of nailing open threes, every time Elfrid nails one, an angel gets its wings, and Dawg has a shit coniption.  Elf took one and made one yesterday.  Sorry Dawg.  As you were. 

You live dangerously. You really want to reference Elfrid's 3's because he actually made one? Best to stay away from that shit — it will only be a source of pain in the future. On to the gospel of his ability to penetrate and defend.

Haha
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 14, 2021, 07:24:13 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 14, 2021, 02:50:38 AM


Knix have mostly avoided injuries (Burks missed some time) until Mitch went down.


Obi says hi.

Quote from: bodiddley on February 14, 2021, 02:50:38 AM

And we've had no CV-disqualifications.  I wonder how many teams have had no players held out due to CV.


Frank says hi.
Title: Positive Pussy?
Post by: carlos123 on February 14, 2021, 07:45:01 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on February 14, 2021, 12:49:29 AM
lol, don't get crazy now!

I'll admit he has somewhat warmed to the challenge of remaining in the league, but the really good stuff happened both halves when he stepped OFF the court.

***which is where he should still be most of the time if only for RJ's sake!

But, doggie, DR and IQ can't be ON the court for 48 minutes.

Besides, my Elfrid has been playing pretty good and improving, and most of all, u supposed to be a TRUE POSITIVE PUSSY (TPP)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3d8O7dTUPPCt_Ur-hpg0YItTBClxn3p4z1odiBw698cvHfDu14_ovJkNlfFl6R-pl2iue8Kosm4U3__ZbvB9R6bnnHd7PalOxgbx8MQUJjp127uacmsny2jsvf247C6dwxs32hjTBIpxIkDYoWnxCch=w595-h757-no?authuser=0)
TPP  LES
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 14, 2021, 09:40:52 PM
Didn't know Franc was a CV-casualty.
Still nice it was contained, some teams have had half the roster out.
And happened at a position where we're loaded.

Anyway Knix have mostly been able to start the same 5 all season.
And since Nawlins is roughly the same player as Mitch, it's more of a 2nd unit adjustment, where Taj is now the C, with less rim protection and lob threat.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 14, 2021, 09:59:40 PM
Frank hit the protocols because contact tracing put him in proximity with someone who tested positive not in the organization. He was not reported to have had a positive test.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on February 14, 2021, 10:01:17 PM
KK has a chance to toughen up and play some D.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 14, 2021, 10:22:38 PM
Yeah, I meant a CV game-casualty.
Most players missing time for contact tracing.
I should have just said "quarantining".

We haven't missed Franc at all.
Though when he comes back it makes it easier to part with Rivers.  We might do AuRevoir a solid and get him to a playoff team with available minutes.  Maybe pocket a 2nd rounder.  And hold on to Franc (unless we get a decent deal for him).

Watching the Wiz game they put uo a stat where Randle was 4th in the League in And1's this year.  Gianis first by a good amount, Zion and LeBJ next, followed by Randle (Beal was 5th, which is why they posted that).  Anyway, another strong Julius stat.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 14, 2021, 10:26:57 PM
Saddiq Bey 16-23 on 3's his last 4 games.
Title: So many Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on February 14, 2021, 10:27:25 PM
The Portland Knicks just beat the Dallas Knicks, which is good for us, by 3 points.
Go Knicks!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 14, 2021, 10:33:04 PM
Quote from: luee on February 14, 2021, 10:01:17 PM
KK has a chance to toughen up and play some D.

If he adds some resilience and focus to his game on both ends, he’ll be fine. He won’t have his full adult body at all on this contract, so this year we are still projecting his future effectiveness. I think he’s making good strides this season and he’ll be able to do most if not all of what Thibs wants from him by the time we’re done.
Title: Re: So many Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 15, 2021, 01:10:41 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 14, 2021, 10:27:25 PM
The Portland Knicks just beat the Dallas Knicks, which is good for us, by 3 points.
Go Knicks!

 ;D

Quote from: bodiddley on February 14, 2021, 10:26:57 PM
Saddiq Bey 16-23 on 3's his last 4 games.

 ;D
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 15, 2021, 02:53:24 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 14, 2021, 10:22:38 PM

Watching the Wiz game they put uo a stat where Randle was 4th in the League in And1's this year.   Another strong Julius stat.

(https://preview.redd.it/dlk2cd4emjh61.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=ceb499c2d0334dc4965e0a598830c91076988f01)
Title: Re: So many Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 15, 2021, 03:00:42 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 14, 2021, 10:27:25 PM
The Portland Knicks just beat the Dallas Knicks, which is good for us, by 3 points.
Go Knicks!

Nice!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on February 15, 2021, 12:06:33 PM
be really interesting to see if KP can stay healthy..I am skeptical but what do I know....

For the Knicks, I am most curious to see how Toppin progresses...that will hopefully an illuminating progression...
IQ and Rose in the backcourt - well that is turning into must see stuff, really fun and exciting to watch...how novel for a knicks fan...maybe we aren't consigned to suffer...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: zupzup2 on February 15, 2021, 01:45:26 PM
I sure hope I'm wrong but I have limited hopes for Toppin. Certainly amazing athlete, but he just seems a tad slow and predictable in his offence. I think JR is significantly better than KP. He just leads by example every game, taking the tough shot at the end of regulation time after time, defense. A real force- as I wrote like a healthy LG with better range. He is the star we never knew we had, and it is a great feeling.
Title: KK O K & THIBS' Dawg Pound
Post by: chipstern on February 15, 2021, 02:09:44 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 14, 2021, 10:33:04 PM
Quote from: luee on February 14, 2021, 10:01:17 PM
KK has a chance to toughen up and play some D.

If he adds some resilience and focus to his game on both ends, he’ll be fine. He won’t have his full adult body at all on this contract, so this year we are still projecting his future effectiveness. I think he’s making good strides this season and he’ll be able to do most if not all of what Thibs wants from him by the time we’re done.

I have been so heartened by the progress the Knicks have made this season under Thibs and Johnny Bryant and Kenny Payne and Mike Woodson. 

When Thibs lays down the law, the players are buying in.  Practice hard, practice smart, stay ready. 

Knox being a good example. 

The Houston game was surely a small sample but for all of us who have wondered about Kevin's intensity and his motor, his cameo was uplifting, and clearly that young man wants to be a Knick. 

I mean, Kevin came out with some FIRE IN HIS ASS. 

He played D, made a steal, ran the floor hard and Quick rewarded him with a highlight film slam. 

He played off the ball, motion and movement, got the rock in rhythm, and found Obi for a terrifying one handed slam [and yes, Haliburton WAS the pick, was MY PICK, but Obi is going to be a beast]. 

Got to tell y'all, on the off day, I was watching some highlights of the past two games, and I've got to tell you, I was tearing up. 

As someone who has been watching the Knicks since 1961, you know that old saw about PLAYING THE RIGHT WAY? 

Well, during our exile in the desert since LJ finally said OUCH and couldn't get up off the gurney?  Since Don Chaney crippled Alan Houston to save his job. Since Donnie Douche traded our entire roster and future for Melo.  Since Phil Jackson weed whacked his ego and his pecker in an ego driven narcissistic frenzy. 

To PLAY THE RIGHT WAY? 

To Be COMPETITIVE For 48 Minutes. 

Winning?  COMPETITIVE. 

Leon Rose made good hires up and down the orginization, and has been prudent and conservative and patient, well PATIENT WITHIN REASON. 

The draft and all of the mega dollar signings?  We can quibble over Tyrese vs. Obi, but Quickly has surely eased the rear view mirror pain of that debate, and since Rose came on board, he has been a coach on the floor and in practice, and extension of Thibs, like we haven't had since Jason Kidd lifted Mike Woodson's squard to the second round in what seems like a lifetime ago.  And Obi has shown signs that we should simply be patient, trust the process, trust the coaching, and trust our puppies. 

Oh and all of the more sexy and garish free agent signings.  BoD has long advocated for Christian Wood, and once has to wonder if we passed on him or he passed on us.  Be that as it may, on one year make goods: Payton, Bullock, Burks, Noel, Rivers, Gibson?  All reasonably priced, all motivated, and whether or not they are back in 2021-2022, they are fucking bringing it now.  Up and down, up and down, but competing. 

Thibs started with DEFENSE, and never looked back.  Held everyone accoutantable, and made it clear that those who practiced best, most consistently, who did the extra work, would get the minutes. 

UP and DOWN, UP and DOWN, we have seen that all season with our Yutes.  And now, with the arrival of Rose, as the rotations have settled in the absence of Mitchell into a definable 10 man cycle, as we see RJ struggling with his offense, yet giving us 4 boards and 5 assists in his 22 minutes, as he yields some of his lead leading floor minutes to Burks and Quickley, as Kevin comes off the bench when his number is finally called, seeming to say, "Is THIS what you mean, Coach?"  As all of the fears of Quickley losing minutes or influence dissipate as his role with a dynamic game closing out second unit of Gibson-Toppin-Burks-Rose-Quickley comes into sharp focus, as Thibs gradually down shifts on the heavy minutes he was playing his starters, as Elfrid makes us--WELL, A FEW OF US--focus on the attributes Thibs is moved by, and not the deficiencies which dick trigger the Geek Chorus of Dipshits and Doubting Uncle Thomases, as Julius bounces back from a crappy game with a ho-hum 22-9-2 in 33 minutes. 

Right now, the Knicks settling in as a .500% team and making the playoffs seems attainable, the inevitable bumps in the road notwithstanding. 


Rose & Thibs have assembled a competitive roster of Dawgs.  Randle has sustained his all-star level of production and leadership.  And in only three games together, Rose & Quickley have drawn the game planning attention of opposing coaches.  The Knicks are no longer a laughing stock and are step by step making it plain that opposing teams will NO LONGER BE ABLE TO TREAT THE GARDEN FLOOR AS AN INSTAGRAM HIGHLIGHT REEL TO PAD THEIR STATS.

Atlanta is surely a more talented team than the Wiz and the Rockets, the obvious absence of Beal and Wood notwithstanding.  Hunter's absence and that of Bogdonavich surely hurts the Hawks, but they still have Young, Gallinari and Collins, Capela, Huerter and Reddish.  They are a dangerous team, who can pile on the points in a hurry.  Coming off a loss to the Pacers [someone explain to me again why we traded McDermott for Mudiay].  I am looking forward to Immanuel Quickley matching up with his doppleganger Trae Young. 

LOOKING FORWARD....we are ALL Looking FORWARD. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 15, 2021, 02:22:30 PM
The next step is whether Thibs can unlock our Offense.
Especially a 4Q offense.

Gallo another shooter who was overpaid last Summer 3/$61M for a 32 year old who has trouble staying healthy.
He's coming off the bench, playing under 20 mins per, missed 12 games and having a down year so far.
Last game v IND was his best of the year 20 & 7, but also was a -20
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 15, 2021, 02:34:36 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 15, 2021, 02:22:30 PM
The next step is whether Thibs can unlock our Offense.
Especially a 4Q offense.

Gallo another shooter who was overpaid last Summer 3/$61M for a 32 year old who has trouble staying healthy.
He's coming off the bench, playing under 20 mins per, missed 12 games and having a down year so far.
Last game v IND was his best of the year 20 & 7, but also was a -20

Yes, I've been monitoring Gallo, too, and while I am sure he and the Knicks had some mutual interest, his age his health and his price were deal breakers.  He has always been very streaky, and on too intimate terms with the ER Room.  Always liked his game, but not at 20 million per x 3 [when we could get Burks AND Noel AND Bullock AND Payton AND Taj for the same money x ONE].  Now that Hunter is out [damn shame, I really like his game], he gets a chance to play more regular minutes and strut his stuff. 
Title: Re: KK O K & THIBS' Dawg Pound
Post by: Kam on February 15, 2021, 03:18:29 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 15, 2021, 02:09:44 PM

Got to tell y'all, on the off day, I was watching some highlights of the past two games, and I've got to tell you, I was tearing up. 


I've been downloading the last 8 games and compiling a highlight reel, to be released hopefully later this week after the next two games are complete.  One unmistakable fact is that before the trade for DRose the highlights were rather mundane.  A Randle fadeaway here, a Quickley floater there.  The occasional three as a result of the ball moving and mostly dunks from our center tandem off point guard penetration.  Pretty fundamental stuff.  There were almost no fast breaks!  Since the trade the highlights have become a lot more exciting. 
Title: Re: KK O K & THIBS' Dawg Pound
Post by: chipstern on February 15, 2021, 03:40:00 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 15, 2021, 03:18:29 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 15, 2021, 02:09:44 PM

Got to tell y'all, on the off day, I was watching some highlights of the past two games, and I've got to tell you, I was tearing up. 


I've been downloading the last 8 games and compiling a highlight reel, to be released hopefully later this week after the next two games are complete.  One unmistakable fact is that before the trade for DRose the highlights were rather mundane.  A Randle fadeaway here, a Quickley floater there.  The occasional three as a result of the ball moving and mostly dunks from our center tandem off point guard penetration.  Pretty fundamental stuff.  There were almost no fast breaks!  Since the trade the highlights have become a lot more exciting.

The first unit and the second unit embody two aspects of Thibs offensive philosophy, the methodical and the spontaenous, the post up and the penetration--hunkering down in the half court and getting out on the break.   

Every morning when I wake up I say a silent prayer to keep D Rose ambulatory and smiling.  He wanted a second shot at NY after playing for dim bulb Hornacek and His Fake Triangle, and well into his second iteration, minus the surreal speed and athleticism of his pre-injury self, he is playing and comporting himself like a leader, and extension of General Thibs on the court, and he has managed to max out his mental acuity in lieu of reduced physical gifts. 

It is totally inspiring. 

I cannot wait for DR and IQ to man up with TY and RR [hopefully] tonight, both of whom have often had our number. 

And Knick On Wood....hopefully Elfrid will be blowing kisses to Dawg in his signature Cringe & Bear It Manner. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 15, 2021, 03:44:21 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 14, 2021, 10:26:57 PM
Saddiq Bey 16-23 on 3's his last 4 games.

Seems some made a good call on this player

Who from Nova is in the next draft?  Seems every year that player is a hit.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on February 15, 2021, 03:55:14 PM
I think Bo mentioned this earlier, Bullock has started the past few games on fire and then rarely takes any shots after Q1... its  vexing and  perplexing, esp. as his Q1's have been so strong...
Title: Blast From Our Past
Post by: chipstern on February 15, 2021, 03:58:43 PM
Josh Robbins: Reporting with @Shams Charania: The Magic intend to sign point guard Chasson Randle to a two-way contract, league sources said. To clear a spot for Randle, the Magic would have to waive one of their current two-way players, most likely Frank Mason. – via Twitter JoshuaBRobbins
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 15, 2021, 04:29:21 PM
Quote from: Jack Straw on February 15, 2021, 03:55:14 PM
I think Bo mentioned this earlier, Bullock has started the past few games on fire and then rarely takes any shots after Q1... its  vexing and  perplexing, esp. as his Q1's have been so strong...

Interesting.

Do you think it's that we stop looking for him?

Or that the other team starts guarding him? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 15, 2021, 04:46:18 PM
Lapchick and Sweetwater:  Breaking Barriers   running again tonight pre-Knicks pre-game.  6-7 MSG
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 15, 2021, 04:48:56 PM
By the way -

going against what I have been saying - THIBS did foreshadow in one of his interviews that we COULD go small with Julius at the 5

Whether we see it as a plan or just somethig used in emergency - we shall see

I dont think Thibs wants to change the roster to get a Shittu or a LaBisseerie on the slate just yet.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 15, 2021, 05:00:15 PM
Double dip in NY as we get Brooklyn at Sactown 10 PM

Not good enough?


Miami at Clippers 10 PM on NBATV
Title: The KP Trade Revisited
Post by: chipstern on February 15, 2021, 05:08:24 PM
Not just Dennis Smith, Wes Matthews and DeAndre Jordan plus an unprotected #1 this summer, and a top ten protected in 2023. 

But ALL of that CAP SPACE. 

Which beget Julius Randle. 

Which beget Marcus Morris, which beget Moe Harkless, which beget more cap space and what is presently the #31-33 pick in the 2021 draft, as well as the #27 pick in the 2020 draft....which along with the #37 pick from Charlotte [Wily Hernan Gomez] beget the #23 pick, which beget the #25 and #33 pick, which beget a future #2 pick and....

Immanuel Quickley. 

Oh, and Dennis Smith beget...DERRICK ROSE. 

So, Kristaps Porzingis, Courtney Lee, Timmy Hardaway and Trey Burke?

Yielded us what is likely a mid-first #1 pick in this year's draft, #11-30 in 2023, potentially the #31 pick in this year's draft, some future #2 picks plus Julius Randle, Immanuel Quickley and Derrick Rose. 

PS: And God forbid KP tweaks something, we could be looking at a lottery pick.  So it would appear that not only did we dodge a bullet--an injury prone egotist and his douche bag brother leveraging a max contract and pissing on team chemistry--but we got two an actual factual stud at PF a potential future star at Combo Guard, and a potential future hall of famer to be his mentor and running buddy.  My God, even Dawg and Miras must be smiling. 
Title: TRUE POSITIVE PUSSIES-TPP HALL OF FAME
Post by: carlos123 on February 15, 2021, 05:48:47 PM
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3cvsh5e-syOFQ6sgfBhiiO3Hlm1nuR7eCTUHn8plNx6ci0FsGG--RdS5SGoe9D3SIXAZDSuHmhD0r_w1Z35U-T7yrUp9qCxRqgnbrPi9xA9MEaHwEWmDO7IlJCqtws6z5ejF3N49oMsn7RgcTRZnwh_=w644-h493-no?authuser=0)

Undisputed NUMBER ONE TPP. He's been consistent thru the years, never wavering, not even in the darkest of times from Scott Layden to Phool Jackson.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3dySNAJtzZ0LTLu1YVx4z0o7WHcROT1t4Tav5JvBkj8fMOHWUMguvKIgw3_9TpNaRDyVqpoltZgMdlJ5VaHBaUk6c4_Nu8gSI5aqEdeUL5tqLt6g-s5YOwaA8EVmwetA47HafhbsI5iBFujiiNGLChS=w599-h460-no?authuser=0)

If we didn't have a Chip, he would be Number One. Anyway, NUMBER TWO AIN'T SO BAD.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3d8O7dTUPPCt_Ur-hpg0YItTBClxn3p4z1odiBw698cvHfDu14_ovJkNlfFl6R-pl2iue8Kosm4U3__ZbvB9R6bnnHd7PalOxgbx8MQUJjp127uacmsny2jsvf247C6dwxs32hjTBIpxIkDYoWnxCch=w595-h757-no?authuser=0)

LES, MY DOGGIE. Not sure he deserves NUMBER THREE, but, what the heck, I like my doggie so he gets it, but with a WARNING: You need to warm up to Elfrid and see him in a POSITIVE LIGHT, or else you may be put ON PROBATION.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3dgtH-dGVUMQnF6TDzYqeNkA3yb4ghx1Y3JMmWyyhPEnks2VCy_HRNDupO0HEs-RLjen3lnumbixhrT5OerWLM83rwYJ-w4RUI0f0goubmOh2NJJlFvDntHXl44cGxkCowoxFEQXEHq5veVuTlFSd-X=w259-h194-no?authuser=0)

NUMBER FOUR: KAMSTER. Probably deserves Number Three, but life ain't always fair, and the jury is not really impartial, showing some favoritism for The Doggie. Anyway, Kamster can be promoted if the current holder of Number 3 is actually put ON PROBATION.

HOW ABOUT ME? Well, I was very slow to warm up to this team, so definitely ON PROBATION. Thas is, until NUMBER ONE decides to lift it.
Title: Carlos
Post by: chipstern on February 15, 2021, 06:18:41 PM
Have you gotten over Mike Miller?

Asking for a friend. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 15, 2021, 06:27:56 PM
Just noticed DSJ getting minutes in DET (40 over 3 games, with 13 points, 7 assists, 6 boards and a block)

5 assists in win over Celts
Title: Re: Carlos
Post by: facilitatorn on February 15, 2021, 06:45:21 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 15, 2021, 06:18:41 PM
Have you gotten over Mike Miller?

Asking for a friend.

To interject uninvited,

One can appreciate the job Miller did here in the GLeague and with the big club on an interim basis while also recognizing the massive upgrade Rose made bringing in Thibs & his staff.

Wishing Mike well though I’m forgetting who’s bench he wound up on this season.



DSJ is being marginally more productive for Detroit than Killian Hayes was when he went down. I can’t say it looks too promising.
Title: Re: Carlos
Post by: carlos123 on February 15, 2021, 07:06:47 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 15, 2021, 06:45:21 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 15, 2021, 06:18:41 PM
Have you gotten over Mike Miller?

Asking for a friend.

To interject uninvited,

One can appreciate the job Miller did here in the GLeague and with the big club on an interim basis while also recognizing the massive upgrade Rose made bringing in Thibs & his staff.

Wishing Mike well though I’m forgetting who’s bench he wound up on this season.



DSJ is being marginally more productive for Detroit than Killian Hayes was when he went down. I can’t say it looks too promising.

After his first coaching experience with the Knicks, it was announced that he would be an assistant coach for the Oklahoma City Thunder.

Chip, I very much like what I'm seeing.

That being said, I still think Miller was dumped unceremoniously and undeservedly, and the Knicks could have shown some loyalty for a change. Did they even offer him an assistant job?

Maybe I need to stay on probation a little longer ...😁
Title: Re: The KP Trade Revisited
Post by: lesterluv on February 15, 2021, 07:32:59 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 15, 2021, 05:08:24 PM
My God, even Dawg and Miras must be smiling.

This PP is most certainly smiling. Been smiling all year.

*** Smiling even more since I just got a vax appt. and looking forward to the end of my personal pandemic. Nah, no bleachshots nor UV for me, Kidd can have mine, LL luvs those good ole fashioned big pharma immunizations

Whenever I see the trade breakdowns bringing us this & this & that, I could point out it is a lil disingenous since that trade made cap room was for two MAXEEBOYS who never showed. We coulda signed Randall w/o it, and/or Morris...and still achieved all the resulting goodness. After all, 1 yr/40-50 mil was spent on Gibson/Bullock/Alfrid/Portis/Ellington..but..

not arguing...loving our smart boys recent smart moves, our most enjoyable team, and what our future looks like.

May just slip on my ELFRID jersey as I fire up the MSG.
Title: Re: The KP Trade Revisited
Post by: carlos123 on February 15, 2021, 07:45:33 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on February 15, 2021, 07:32:59 PM

May just slip on my ELFRID jersey as I fire up the MSG.

That's a good boy!!!
WHO'S A GOOD BOY?

MY DOGGIE'S A VERY GOOD BOY.  🐶🐶🦮🐕‍🦺

No probation for my doggie.
Title: Re: The KP Trade Revisited
Post by: chipstern on February 15, 2021, 08:05:15 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on February 15, 2021, 07:32:59 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 15, 2021, 05:08:24 PM
My God, even Dawg and Miras must be smiling.

This PP is most certainly smiling. Been smiling all year.

*** Smiling even more since I just got a vax appt. and looking forward to the end of my personal pandemic. Nah, no bleachshots nor UV for me, Kidd can have mine, LL luvs those good ole fashioned big pharma immunizations


Not addressed to you just saying under the heading of things that make me happy. 

What, No Julius Randle Trade Scenarios anyone?
Whenever I see the trade breakdowns bringing us this & this & that, I could point out it is a lil disingenous since that trade made cap room was for two MAXEEBOYS who never showed. We coulda signed Randall w/o it, and/or Morris...and still achieved all the resulting goodness. After all, 1 yr/40-50 mil was spent on Gibson/Bullock/Alfrid/Portis/Ellington..but..

not arguing...loving our smart boys recent smart moves, our most enjoyable team, and what our future looks like.

May just slip on my ELFRID jersey as I fire up the MSG.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 15, 2021, 08:59:17 PM
First look at OKONGWU

Wearing #17, strangely.

Never heard of this Mays cat.  4 years at LSU, quick 6 points

Hawks no answer for Julius.  Lets get him FIFTY!

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 15, 2021, 10:06:57 PM
Knix making Big Plays down the stretch.
Randle with that Looong 3.
RJB hit 2 corner 3's.
And some good D, especially late rebounding.
Fun game...

Collins seemed passive the last few minutes.
Has been mostly a first 3Q guy for whatever reason..
Gallo on the bench in clutch time.
You never really know what Cam Red will do.

Knix 17-34 on 3's.
Has to be the NYK best outside shooting this season by far.
Title: WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK?
Post by: chipstern on February 15, 2021, 10:19:55 PM
Wow

When did Julius Randle turn into Willis Reed?  OUR CAPTAIN. 

Best team win, best effort, best close out of the season by a country fucking mile against a team that wouldn't say die, until we drove a stake through their heart.

Noel-Randle-Barrett-Quickley-Rose

Our closers.  My God, we lose this game 999 times out of a 1,000 the past 20 years. 

I'm in tears.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on February 15, 2021, 10:21:53 PM
I had to come back after this game.

What's up everyone! Hope you all are safe and well!

Wow, what a game that was and this season has had a few!

This is the most fun to be a Knick fan since the old guys year that's for sure.

But this is almost more interesting because no one thought we would be anywhere near like this.

Randle??? wow

If you told me Julius Randle would be an All-Star this season and drop 40+ points in beast mode and have a top level season I would have thought you smoked some of the goodness.

Everyone talking about the Nets, but is this NY basketball story from nowhere is really fun so far.

Thibs has been a godsend and the other assistants who we've added likely deserve credit.

DRose so far so good. Maybe this is just the right situation?

Exciting to feel something for a damn change.

Loved the situation with the mic at the end with the players giving it over the Randle.

Glad we can enjoy this as a fanbase. We sure fucking deserve it.

Peace.
Title: THE KING OF NEW YORK!!!
Post by: carlos123 on February 15, 2021, 10:33:49 PM
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3eR7JC9xsEF0unwhb57wxE0Kw1uaJR_MGuEpq8PTkGkwYLaX2NlFBKeMhidoeaI1xYQGnBLR5iKpXgu_mAmdSAHySa03dV0v0e1Mbpod0OLA3h0koqthLR4sgk0b8isYn6C4YpMAnoOFXAOTEz02i3p=w598-h411-no?authuser=0)

JULIUS   RANDLE!!!
Title: Thibs
Post by: chipstern on February 15, 2021, 10:38:20 PM
"Your confidence comes from your preperation."

We were 17-34 from trey. 

Held Atlanta to 11-33. 

What the actual fuck? 

RJ, 21-6-3 and a steal in 33 minutes. 

To all the fair weather douche bags passing for Knicks fanswhjo've been pissing on this kid the past week?  FUCK YOU.  Thibs: "I don't worry about RJ," 

Elfrid 12 points and 7 boards, with one assist and a steal in 24 minutes.  Derrick with 8 points 3 boards 3 assists and two steals in 24 minutes.  Immanuel with 16-2-5 in 22 minutes.

The CAPTAIN...Julian Randle. 

In 41 minutes, 44 points on 14-22 shooting, 7-13 from trey, 9-12 FTs, oh, and 9 rebounds and 5 assists.

What The Actual Fuck, What The Actual Fuck, What The Actual Fuck, What The Actual Fuck, What The Actual Fuck, What The Actual Fuck, What The Actual Fuck?

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 15, 2021, 10:45:58 PM
That’s what allstars do against marginal defensive teams. Which for me at least answers the question for sure about Julius.

Beautiful game by Barrett, give or take one shot.

We are on a very nice stretch right now - the most fun we’ve been to watch in a long time.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 15, 2021, 10:49:52 PM
Thinking how strong Noel has been, game after game.

Clutch on the defensive end.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 15, 2021, 10:57:50 PM
Yeah. If Mitch winds up thinking and seeing the game with the savvy Noel and even Taj bring to it, he’ll grow into a hell of an anchor eclipsing his stellar start.

I hope we keep the bulk of the band together beyond this season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 15, 2021, 11:05:06 PM
Knix 17-34 on 3's.
Has to be the NYK best outside shooting this season by far.


They all shoot it with such confidence

Best example was Barrett hoisting a  15 foot air ball but then not hesitating at all, draining the next 2 attempts, both 3-pointers

And when have we had a guy who we HOPED would take the three, while standing 3-5 feet beyond the arc?  IQ indeed.  He's Jimmer-like  (heh)

I like this matchup of teams as they each progress.
Title: Jimmer-like
Post by: carlos123 on February 15, 2021, 11:29:09 PM
Chamaco, you’re truly HILARIOUS 😁😂🤣

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


(heh)
Title: Guess What?
Post by: chipstern on February 16, 2021, 12:19:58 AM
Knicks are now #6 in the Eastern Playoffs Scrum at 14-15.

One half game ahead of Charlotte.

One half game behind the Celtics and the Pacers. 

No, you are not halluncinating. 

The Knicks are in the hunt for a playoff birth. 

Fuck the draft lottery. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 16, 2021, 03:01:01 AM
Randle single handedly swung that game in the 3rd.  Atlanta had come back from 14 down to seize the lead and Randle said “no, uh uh, gimme the ball I’m winning this game”.  Knowing the way things go he will probably be snubbed but he deserves to be an All-Star and by seasons end should be a Top 10 MVP Candidate.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 16, 2021, 02:02:00 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 15, 2021, 10:06:57 PM
Knix making Big Plays down the stretch.
Randle with that Looong 3.
RJB hit 2 corner 3's.


RJ hitting clutch 3s has to bring a smile to the face of the most jaded Knicks fan as does Julius finding his range from deep this season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 16, 2021, 02:36:37 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 16, 2021, 02:02:00 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 15, 2021, 10:06:57 PM
Knix making Big Plays down the stretch.
Randle with that Looong 3.
RJB hit 2 corner 3's.


RJ hitting clutch 3s has to bring a smile to the face of the most jaded Knicks fan as does Julius finding his range from deep this season.

Great.

So let's trade them and our two #1 picks for Bradley Beal. 

THAT'S HOW KNICKS FANS ROLL.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 16, 2021, 03:10:31 PM
The next three San Antonio Spurs games are postponed after four players tested positive for COVID-19, the NBA announced on Tuesday.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 16, 2021, 03:41:05 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 16, 2021, 03:10:31 PM
The next three San Antonio Spurs games are postponed after four players tested positive for COVID-19, the NBA announced on Tuesday.

That gives the team a rare 3-day break in the schedule after tomorrow's game vs Orlando since we had the Spurs scheduled for Saturday.  That was supposed to be the first of a back-to-back but instead Thibs gets to give the team some rest and/or schedule a couple of practices before facing his former team the T-Wolves on Sunday night.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 16, 2021, 03:42:09 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 16, 2021, 02:36:37 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 16, 2021, 02:02:00 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 15, 2021, 10:06:57 PM
Knix making Big Plays down the stretch.
Randle with that Looong 3.
RJB hit 2 corner 3's.


RJ hitting clutch 3s has to bring a smile to the face of the most jaded Knicks fan as does Julius finding his range from deep this season.

Great.

So let's trade them and our two #1 picks for Bradley Beal. 

THAT'S HOW KNICKS FANS ROLL.

A sad minority maybe.  Most are fawning over Randle right now.
Title: King Julius calling out Chip???
Post by: carlos123 on February 16, 2021, 04:00:10 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 16, 2021, 02:36:37 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 16, 2021, 02:02:00 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 15, 2021, 10:06:57 PM
Knix making Big Plays down the stretch.
Randle with that Looong 3.
RJB hit 2 corner 3's.


RJ hitting clutch 3s has to bring a smile to the face of the most jaded Knicks fan as does Julius finding his range from deep this season.

Great.

So let's trade them and our two #1 picks for Bradley Beal. 

THAT'S HOW KNICKS FANS ROLL.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3f7Ob6IvHDMXiM4WHzoEI8GDjoFQXqS6zs08YhmMWWu01jKe0Eqci6RRSbnlCV3awOv-PT3Y2myOxyG3iXCYPai7UX4tmfHXsqJrYu_OXSd7Lum0EWCtmOq0jNUQAqWkJV8T2b45etKPxLpHFqGFgJa=w598-h411-no?authuser=0)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 16, 2021, 04:39:11 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 16, 2021, 03:42:09 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 16, 2021, 02:36:37 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 16, 2021, 02:02:00 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 15, 2021, 10:06:57 PM
Knix making Big Plays down the stretch.
Randle with that Looong 3.
RJB hit 2 corner 3's.


RJ hitting clutch 3s has to bring a smile to the face of the most jaded Knicks fan as does Julius finding his range from deep this season.

Great.

So let's trade them and our two #1 picks for Bradley Beal. 

THAT'S HOW KNICKS FANS ROLL.

A sad minority maybe.  Most are fawning over Randle right now.

Front runners.  Most had Julius traded out of town on a tramp steamer, traded for a bag of magic beans. 

No less than Alan Hahn just copped that he was mistaken about Julius. 

Let's see if MFs are ready to give Elfrid some love.  In case anyone's missed it, he has THIBS' total trust, just like RJ, and guess what, since Rose arrived, he didn't just inspire IQ, but Julius and Obi and RJ and ELFRID, for fuck's sake. 
Title: Not Positive Enough?
Post by: chipstern on February 16, 2021, 05:11:12 PM
One final point. Knicks fans can be very nurturing and loyal. They can also be very spiteful and insensitive. Julius was showing signficant improvement last year AFTER Marcus was traded. RJ and Frank as well. I have a close friend, an old time Knick fan going back to Carl Braun for God's sake, who was very enbittered: "I don't want Julius Randle on MY TEAM." Well, Julius is not stupid. He experienced the disdain, and responded NOT BY SULKING, but raising his game to meet his own standards, and to exceed Thibs'.

I would suggest that Knicks fans are rather quick to slag off some players, when they are up and down [RJ], or if they have palpable limitations [Charlie Ward....ELFRID PAYTON]. Payton's limitations are well documented, but HE IS A KNICK, motherfuckers. I am really proud how he has responded to the hostility and contempt of Knicks fans [you can feel it even in an empty arena] by raising his game and his intensity. Anyone notice how completely loyal Thibs has been to him? On any given night, he's a triple double. A mediocre shooter to put it mildly, but a solid rudder, fesity defender, good rebounder.

Anyone notice that since Rose arrived, Elfrid has raised his game anew. Has responded to disdain and doubting thomases with pride and intensity; he is finishing more of those snaky drives down the lane to the rack, he is drawing more fouls and converting more FTs. My God, the other night he drained an open three, and an angel got its wings. Truth be told, Rose's arrival has not only motivated Quickley and Topping, but Randle and RJ and ELFRID.

Knicks fan who slag Elfrid are every bit as anal and pathetic as those who respond on line to our best team effort win of the season by seeking out trade scenarios.

Stick it where the sun don't shine, dimwits and see if you can't just focus on the transformation of this franchise into a COMPETITIVE ENTERPRISE.

We have a long long way to go, but, we have a prudent front office (I mean, Rose for Dennis and a mid second rounder....SERIOUSLY), a skilled coaching coterie and a squad full of dawgs who respond to accountability by raising their game . Anyone notice the intensity with which Kevin Know reponded to some garabge time daylight. Like Pat Riley liked to say, "Sure you're ready, BUT ARE YOU PREPARED?"

Or as Larry likerd to say, playing the right way. 

Or as Max Roach put it, DEEDS NOT WORDS. 

(https://img.particlenews.com/img/id/3mMPoi_0Y4Pc1yV00?type=thumbnail_512x288)

Thibs ain't worried about RJ.  Nor Elfrid.  Nor Julius.  Nor IQ.  Nor Derrick. 
Title: Roses By Any Other Name
Post by: chipstern on February 16, 2021, 05:18:44 PM
(https://assets-cms.thescore.com/uploads/image/file/440131/w640xh480_GettyImages-462771012.jpg?ts=1612919684)
Title: Dennis NOT A Menace
Post by: chipstern on February 16, 2021, 05:23:35 PM
I have a rooting interest in Dennis Smith. 

Was sad to things spiral out of control in NY.  Loved his game when he came here in 2019-2020. 

Too bad the Knicks did not have the luxury of nurturing his 2020-2021 game.  Thibs had the playoffs in his viewfinder. 

The Pistons do NOT. 

They are trading Blake Griffin after dispensing with Rose. 

Tearing everything down, and building from the ground up.  Grant a key building block. 

Dennis will get an honest opportunity to reboot. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 16, 2021, 05:34:47 PM
Elfrid is about half a year older than Randle. He’s shown all the desirable aspects of a PG in stretches, and some very key ones for all or the bulk of his career.

He cares about defense where he works consistently hard and usually smart. That combined with his athletic profile makes him effective on and off the ball.

Most of his career, including last year, he has a good assist number and decent or better assist to turnover ratio. Less so this season, but historically he’s been successful at taking care of and distributing the ball. Thibs has him playing with different focus which is paying dividends for the team as constructed.

He’s had good shooting months from behind the arc. His improvement from the stripe if sustained would bode well for him developing consistency from deep eventually as well.

He gets to see some of his old friends w the Magic. I hope it brings out the best in his game. 
Title: The Payton-Rose Platoon
Post by: chipstern on February 16, 2021, 05:52:40 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 16, 2021, 05:34:47 PM
Elfrid is about half a year older than Randle. He’s shown all the desirable aspects of a PG in stretches, and some very key ones for all or the bulk of his career.

He cares about defense where he works consistently hard and usually smart. That combined with his athletic profile makes him effective on and off the ball.

Most of his career, including last year, he has a good assist number and decent or better assist to turnover ratio. Less so this season, but historically he’s been successful at taking care of and distributing the ball. Thibs has him playing with different focus which is paying dividends for the team as constructed.

He’s had good shooting months from behind the arc. His improvement from the stripe if sustained would bode well for him developing consistency from deep eventually as well.

He gets to see some of his old friends w the Magic. I hope it brings out the best in his game.

You know what, people who obsess on Elfrid's limitations, and who bemoan him "Starting" are kind of dim bulbs. 

Last night we got a very clear picture of Thibs' effective use a facilitators' platoon.

Elfrid, Derrick and Immanuel all clocking like around 22 minutes per....

RJ last night got his 22 + 11 culled from Bullock & Burks. 

Just to make things CLEAR, that old saw about it don't matter who starts, but who finishes? 

Elfrid's status with the starting five has been locked in since opening night.  THIBS trusts him, and Elfrid has raised his game.  He is a good fit with the staring five of Mitch-Julius-Reggie-RJ-Elfrid.  And considering how aggressively he has been taking it to the rack, his FT% of .714, his career second best only other than his
Pelicans .743 in 2018-2019. 

And while Burks has parsed some of RJ's minutes with the starters?

In case the more slow witted amongst Knicks groundlings haven't noticed, Payton & Rose are now a PG platoon, with Elfrid starting, and Derrick finishing. 

Noel-Randle-Barrett-Quickley-Rose.

WORKING VERY NICELY, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 16, 2021, 06:01:37 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 16, 2021, 03:42:09 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 16, 2021, 02:36:37 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 16, 2021, 02:02:00 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 15, 2021, 10:06:57 PM
Knix making Big Plays down the stretch.
Randle with that Looong 3.
RJB hit 2 corner 3's.


RJ hitting clutch 3s has to bring a smile to the face of the most jaded Knicks fan as does Julius finding his range from deep this season.

Great.

So let's trade them and our two #1 picks for Bradley Beal. 

THAT'S HOW KNICKS FANS ROLL.

A sad minority maybe.  Most are fawning over Randle right now.

Heh

I hadnt heard that trade scenario

But bet your last dollar - Knicks are looking for an upgrade to the starting 5.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 16, 2021, 06:11:25 PM
Re:  Schedule

NBA could still rework it so Knicks have a game Fri or Sat. - opponent to be determined

They did so in adding tomorrow's DET-CHI game, taken from the tail end of the season.
Title: Interesting Recollection From January 6 & The Subsequent Payton-Rose Platoon
Post by: chipstern on February 16, 2021, 06:16:54 PM
Knicks beat the JAZZ, one of the best teams in the NBA, who cleaned our clock in the rematch.

Elfrid logged 42 minutes and scored 22, on 10-15 shooting, with 8 assists and 2 boards. 

When EP plays well, Knicks play well. 

He has played well in February, and we are 5-3.

With less on his back, and a mandate to play more intensely in 22 minutes rather than 35-40, bodes well for the Knicks. 

Meanwhile, in his first four games as a Knick. Payton's platoon mate Rose, has logged 20, 20, 23, 24 minutes, while Payton has logged 27, 23, 22, 24. 

We have gone 3-1, and save for the refs, and a poor night for Julius, we could have prevailed against Miami, losing 98-96. 

Meanwihle in the first four games of the Payton-Rose platoon, Quickley has logged 21, 22, 21, 22.  His floater has been off, but he has shot 11-25 from trey, and 14-14 from the FT line. 

RJ?  Has logged 27, 26, 22, 33, 9-13 from the FT line, with 19 boards and 14 assists. 

Thibs is zeroing in on his rotations and minutes. 

A dangerous Orlando team on Wednesday in Florida.

Then presumably a day of rest and two days of practice before the Wolves at home on Sunday. 

Be interesting to see what Thibs comes up with over the next five days. 
Title: Chamaco likey
Post by: carlos123 on February 16, 2021, 06:21:32 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 16, 2021, 06:01:37 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 16, 2021, 03:42:09 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 16, 2021, 02:36:37 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 16, 2021, 02:02:00 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 15, 2021, 10:06:57 PM
Knix making Big Plays down the stretch.
Randle with that Looong 3.
RJB hit 2 corner 3's.


RJ hitting clutch 3s has to bring a smile to the face of the most jaded Knicks fan as does Julius finding his range from deep this season.

Great.

So let's trade them and our two #1 picks for Bradley Beal. 

THAT'S HOW KNICKS FANS ROLL.

A sad minority maybe.  Most are fawning over Randle right now.

Heh

I hadnt heard that trade scenario

But bet your last dollar - Knicks are looking for an upgrade to the starting 5.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3dzy-c_jBG5utsWrczKcMDplHm2HifH0l1J2_Ql63wYTZJjI1t-gZf_brf_GmZAROF_XqJDnrVcTpe1O6_29DSlHSkUdZglyrvqbwOmtTB--6N7CGuRouSRKK7heIgv_llO_oCfAiITaxkwRjyzGxRs=w626-h570-no?authuser=0)
Title: Re: Dennis NOT A Menace
Post by: elephant on February 17, 2021, 02:27:38 AM
Quote from: chipstern on February 16, 2021, 05:23:35 PM
I have a rooting interest in Dennis Smith. 

Was sad to things spiral out of control in NY.  Loved his game when he came here in 2019-2020. 

Too bad the Knicks did not have the luxury of nurturing his 2020-2021 game.  Thibs had the playoffs in his viewfinder. 


Your memory is playing tricks on you. Smith had a single continuous defect when he was playing here — opposing guards always played better than he did.

It's not that complicated.

Yeah, the idea was that he was young with speed and potential, and he'll eventually find his way. But he never did. He was a pretty mediocre guard on a very mediocre team. And yet even last summer, I believe you were still making noises that this year, this year would be different. But he had two seasons of opportunities with the Knicks to show what he had...and it wasn't a whole lot.

If he elevates his game with the Pistons, cool. Good for the dude. But it wasn't happening with the Knicks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 17, 2021, 02:46:39 AM
Once DAL got Luka, their first thought was:
1) WOW!
then
2) Time to move Jr. Smith

Fun to catch the various ex-NBAers calling games:

Jim Jackson on the PHX broadcast.
The other day Drew Gooden was doing the WAS game.
And Alaa Abdelnaby -- born in Egypt, raised in NJ -- was on the Philly telecast.
Got his start announcing NBA games in Arabic on ME satellite TV.

Richard Jefferson does some Nets games and does a good job, being both humorous and informative.
Got his start doing podcasts, which I assume is going to be a common path going forward.  Hone your skills discussing games and plays and players while still playing. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 17, 2021, 02:52:25 AM
Willy Hernancortez: 14 Pts & 6 O-boards in 19 mins (also 4 fouls).
NOPe with a blowout, so he got good minutes.
Title: Dennis Charles [Jazz Drummer] > Dennis Smith [NBA PG]
Post by: chipstern on February 17, 2021, 11:01:40 AM
Quote from: elephant on February 17, 2021, 02:27:38 AM
Quote from: chipstern on February 16, 2021, 05:23:35 PM
I have a rooting interest in Dennis Smith. 

Was sad to things spiral out of control in NY.  Loved his game when he came here in 2019-2020. 

Too bad the Knicks did not have the luxury of nurturing his 2020-2021 game.  Thibs had the playoffs in his viewfinder. 


Your memory is playing tricks on you. Smith had a single continuous defect when he was playing here — opposing guards always played better than he did.

It's not that complicated.

Yeah, the idea was that he was young with speed and potential, and he'll eventually find his way. But he never did. He was a pretty mediocre guard on a very mediocre team. And yet even last summer, I believe you were still making noises that this year, this year would be different. But he had two seasons of opportunities with the Knicks to show what he had...and it wasn't a whole lot.

If he elevates his game with the Pistons, cool. Good for the dude. But it wasn't happening with the Knicks.



True Dat.

Hope springs eternal, fueled as it was by his strong play in the spring of 2019 when he first arrived.  As you may recall, Mark Cuban was kvelling about how the Knicks left Dennis available to them at #9 when we took Frank at #8, and his rookie season was quite promising for the Mavs, though when they got wind of what Luka was capable of, well, Dennis' days were numbered. 

Kam had an interesting post.  Did you see it?  As per Dennis first blush as a Knick, Kam noted a performance on Feburay 8, 2019, in which he tallied 31 points and 9 assists. 

And whom did he rack up those stats against?

DETROIT.  Someone took note, and we were lucky enough that the Pistons were in the process of tearing it all down, beginning with the Drummond trade, on to Derrick Rose, and now, they are dangling Blake Griffin.

Sometimes, you simply have to move on from a team, when you have exhausted your possibibilites, and get a fresh start.  Ergo, my rooting interest in Dennis who showed potential straight out of the gate, but got stuck in a rut. 

As per your analysis, no arguments, and it puts me in mind of a famous free jazz pianist, Cecil Taylor, who in his formative years, fronted a trio/quartet for like five years, where he was splitting the difference between working his way through his more in-the-tradition/derivative influences, such as Duke Ellington, Thelonious Monk, Bud Powell, Herbie Nichols and Horace Silver and his own post-mod inclinations, before arriving at his fully formed, frenetic, free jazz approach which became his sonic signature. 

He had a drummer, name of Dennis Charles, who was kind of a next generation Art Blakey. 

When CT moved on, it was to more commanding, freely inflected drummers, such as the innovative Sunny Murray who went on to tear things up with Albert Ayler, and Andrew Cyrille, a remarkably energized rhythmic force field who subsequently played with CT for eleven years.   

The drummer being very akin in a jazz ensemble to how a good point guard nurtures a five man hoops ensemble. 

An elder among the jazz community, my friend Irving Stone, once asked Cecil, as per my Dennie Charles/Dennis Smith metaphor, why he moved on from Brother Charles. 

"I got tired of waiting." 
Title: Progress [Trust The Process]
Post by: chipstern on February 17, 2021, 06:11:29 PM
Steve Popper: “They’d be one of the teams you don’t want to play against.” – Orlando’s Steve Clifford on the Knicks. – via Twitter StevePopper
Title: Re: Progress [Trust The Process]
Post by: chipstern on February 17, 2021, 06:17:04 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 17, 2021, 06:11:29 PM
Steve Popper: “They’d be one of the teams you don’t want to play against.” – Orlando’s Steve Clifford on the Knicks. – via Twitter StevePopper

Have a long way to go, but chemistry and camraderie and commitment and accountability go a long, long way--longer than obsessing over "star players" and gutting the team to mollify fair weather fans and embrace quick fixes in pursuit of shiny objects. 

God bless Victor Oladipo, Bradley Beal and Zach Levine, but they are NOT the answer.

Fuck me, they ain't even the question. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 17, 2021, 06:23:25 PM
Opposing player to watch tonight

Michael Carter Williams
Title: Chemistry And More Fucking Rumors
Post by: chipstern on February 17, 2021, 06:28:12 PM
Playing Orlando within the hour, so naturally, the internet is awash with Mo Bamba rumors. 

Orlando picking Mo when they already had the formidable Mister Vucevic, and were kind of thin at PG was curious. 

The Knicks were reportedly looking to move up to take him. 

Ended up getting Mitchell in the second round. 

Again, get your hand off of your dicks, Knicks fans. 

We have Nerlens, and I dare say, all things being equal, would like to explore bringing him back next season, and are digging what he is bringing to Thibs' Dawg Pound this season. 

So my all means, lets spend assets and sunder chemistry on someone who projects when Mitch returns, to be a fourth string center, doesn't know our system, and has been on a steady negative incline entering his third season. 

I mean, DUH. 

Given Perry & Perrin's track record so far, if the Knicks were to reach out, it would be for someone along the lines of a Tyson Chandler as a stop gap. 

DO NOT anticipate any moves. 

PS: Frank Ntilikina returns to the roster tonight. 
Title: Re: Chemistry And More Fucking Rumors
Post by: chipstern on February 17, 2021, 07:01:19 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 17, 2021, 06:28:12 PM
Playing Orlando within the hour, so naturally, the internet is awash with Mo Bamba rumors. 

Orlando picking Mo when they already had the formidable Mister Vucevic, and were kind of thin at PG was curious. 

The Knicks were reportedly looking to move up to take him. 

Ended up getting Mitchell in the second round. 

Again, get your hand off of your dicks, Knicks fans. 

We have Nerlens, and I dare say, all things being equal, would like to explore bringing him back next season, and are digging what he is bringing to Thibs' Dawg Pound this season. 

So my all means, lets spend assets and sunder chemistry on someone who projects when Mitch returns, to be a fourth string center, doesn't know our system, and has been on a steady negative incline entering his third season. 

I mean, DUH. 

Given Perry & Perrin's track record so far, if the Knicks were to reach out, it would be for someone along the lines of a Tyson Chandler as a stop gap. 

DO NOT anticipate any moves. 

PS: Frank Ntilikina returns to the roster tonight.

Yes, I know, Mo could project as an interesting reclamation project going into next summer if Nerlens walks.  Presuming that he would like to make significant more than 5 million per.  Not to mention Mitchell. 

So, do we REALLY want to make a major investment in Mo FUCKING Bamba. 

This is why Rose & the Knicks lured hired ace capologist Brock Aller away from the Cavs in the spring of 2020.  If you were him, how would you regard these numbers? 

2020-21 $5,969,040   

2021-22  $7,568,743   

2022-23  $10,096,703 [Qualifying Offer]

Folks, that is a lot of money for someone who presently is averaging 8.6 minutes a game. 

Life it tough, but it is a lot tougher when you are stupid. 
Title: Game review
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Title: Re: Chemistry And More Fucking Rumors
Post by: Kam on February 17, 2021, 10:34:30 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 17, 2021, 06:28:12 PM
Playing Orlando within the hour, so naturally, the internet is awash with Mo Bamba rumors. 


What website are you on where fans want to trade away Randle and trade for Bamba?
Title: Re: Chemistry And More Fucking Rumors
Post by: carlos123 on February 17, 2021, 10:38:33 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 17, 2021, 10:34:30 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 17, 2021, 06:28:12 PM
Playing Orlando within the hour, so naturally, the internet is awash with Mo Bamba rumors. 


Q What website are you on where fans want to trade away Randle and trade for Bamba?

A Trump 2024. 😁

Don't worry Chip, we all know you ain't visiting such garbage sites. I just couldn't resist the question 😉
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 18, 2021, 12:26:49 AM
Jeez, I thought Magic were a weak sister and we should beat them.

I need to check out a replay.
What the hell happened to Quixks and Rose?
(while journeyman Burks continues to slump and return towards career averages)

Otherwise, I pegged Mo Bamba at the time as the most likely Top 10 draft bust.
Every year there are 2 or 3 (or more) busts in the Top Ten, so my game is to try to identify them in real time.  Mo Bomb seemed like an obvious reach.

Not sure why Chip is responding to (and spreading) dumb stuff on the internet.
But he's beating up the Scarecrow pretty good ... 

There is a bit of a puzzle.  Knix are playing hard and cohesively; Thibs has them pulling together.  But we do need to upgrade and improve the team.  Obviously Franc and Rivers (and Knox) and  are expendable.  But how much will they bring?  And can we really upgrade and improve without nabbing a starting quality PG.
With Randle, RJB and Mitch all starting a premium is on shooting at the PG and other wing slot.  Can Quix be our starting PG, and if so, when?

So yeah, there will be trade chatter, even if some of it is misguided (like those absurd Zach LaVie trades Chip dragged in from some sewer).
Title: Give that man a MAX deal
Post by: Kam on February 18, 2021, 12:52:13 AM
Tommy Beer
@TommyBeer
·
Feb 16
for those asking:

Porzingis career-highs:
22.7 PPG in 2017-18
9.5 RPG in 19-20
1.8 APG in 19-20
39.5% 3PT% in 17-18

Julius Randle this season:
23.1 PPG
11.0 RPG
5.6 APG
40.6 3PT%

Randle is 26 and will make <$20 million next year

KP is 25 and will make ~$33 million next 3 yrs

Julius Randle is averaging:

*more points than Anthony Davis or Karl-Anthony Towns

*more rebounds than Joel Embiid or Bam Adebayo

*more assists than Jrue Holiday or Donovan Mitchell

And Randle is shooting a higher percentage from 3-point range than Dame Lillard and Buddy Hield
Title: What ifs ...?
Post by: bodiddley on February 18, 2021, 01:12:26 AM
Seems the real failure was not keeping KZ and adding Randle.
Who better to complement Julius than a 7 foot plus outside shooting/rim protecting C?

Should have been doable, probably if we could have found a taker for Tim Jr.
Teams always want shooters.

Something like Rubio - Tim Jr - RJB - Randle - KZ would be formidable.
(maybe Tim would be gone to make cap space for Randle?)

but even Elf - RJB - Bullox - Randle - KZ would be strong.

Turn the Knox pick into any of the Bridges/Porterhouse/Shai and things perk up even more.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 18, 2021, 01:20:45 AM
You are forgetting the douchebag factor, Bo.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 18, 2021, 01:36:18 AM
I really can't recall another rising young superstar forcing his way out on his rookie contract.

No question that the Knix under Phil and his many stooge coaches was poorly run.
 And the players disliked the system.  Maybe if we had hired a Thibs type instead of Hornacek and Fizzle, KZ might have stayed as things cohered behind leadership.

Other teams manage to keep their star yute content for 5+ years.
So you give KZ's bro a cushy scouting job in Euroland, keep his buddy Kuz deep on the roster, don't fire his main workout coach, hire Chip to park KZ's car. 
Oh yeah ... don't treat HoF Melo and vet Noah like shit.

And then amazing how little we got back for trading KZ.
<sigh>
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 18, 2021, 02:09:35 AM
Julius had Marcus Morris last year.  He started playing better after the trade.  Julius is playing as the man here.  Would have been a clash with Poizingous.

Also KP isn't playing any defense this year.  His defense rating is 113.  Mitchell's is 105.   Kp's offensive rating is 114.  Mitchell's is 131.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 18, 2021, 03:54:56 AM
Losing some weight and getting in better condition has paid off a lot for Randle.
Able to drive by fools, better lift on his J, and still strong enough to bull his way around.  But this year, Randle is frequently using his drives as a decoy to compromise the D and set up shooters.  Last year he would force drives/shots against double and triple teams.  His J has been great, he's had a few more wonky passes lately (fatigue?), but his assists have been steady and high all year.

KZ was injured and has been somewhat gimpy.
He's had some monster defensive games (one with 13 rebounds and 5 blocks), but some others where he's been a little slow-moving.  This has resulted in more fouls which has limited his minutes in 3 of the last 10 games.  He's playing pretty solid two way ball lately, but sitting out B2B's.

Last 8 games, DAL is 5-3 with a 3 point loss to POR, 1 Point loss to PHX.  But mostly feasted on weak sisters.  DAL team defense has been mediocre to poor.  Despite adding Josh Rich.  Btw, check out Brunson -- looks like he could be a legit starter.  Crafty, tough, plays both ends.

Post-AS will be when we can see where KZ is really at.
KZ and Randle seem like an ideal pairing to me.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 18, 2021, 09:58:28 AM
I thought Knix outplayed Magic 1st half.
But ORl hit their 3's and was a 1 point game at the mid-break.

Randle had another great 1Q.  Laughing on his way back after his 3rd trey.
But I thought Julius looked tired all through the 3Q when Knix got killed (30-14).
Thibs had to notice, so I guess he just doesn't trust ObiT enough.
But Randle's shots were almost all short, and he was making mistakes on D.  Just looked gassed.

Teams with outside shooting Bigs give NYK trouble. Julius not comfortable out there. Magic roll with Vuc and 4 shooters most of the time.
I thought Thibs mistakenly had Randle doubling Vuc which left open shooters and meant Julius had to cover a lot of ground.
I'd rather Vuc shoot 2's against Nawlins, than doubling and having open 3 point shooters.

Still think Elf is a good finisher.  Been keeping an eye on that the last 7 games or so since we talked about it.
Elf seems to get to the rack and finish creatively over and over.

I didn't realize Aminu was still in the League.  Good to see.  Apparently just back from off season knee surgery.  Just 30.
I never heard of Okeke.  looked solid.
Bo Mama looked fine in his time out there.

Ross killed us.  Never a fan, but he can get hot.
Knix didn't have a lot of energy, and Ross was playing a notch faster than NYK.
He blocked a Quix floater from the side after IQ got him on his hip.
Quicks tried a few floaters from a bit too far out.
Rose & Quick combined 2-22 FG.

Non-Randle Knix were 4-20 on 3's.  And Randle's 3 makes were all in the 1Q.
So all Knicls were 4-20 over the last 3 Q's.
Knix with a 33 point 2nd half.

I haven't seen the 4Q yet ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 18, 2021, 11:07:20 AM
Thibs didn't have a good feel for the rotation last night

Its OK.  He can have an off game.

I thought Bamba looked fine.
Title: No Legs
Post by: chipstern on February 18, 2021, 01:44:37 PM
Knicks had no legs.  Have been on the road a lot, and the Hawks game was a grinder. 

Fournier came back firing, and Ross is one of those flamethrowers who once he gets hot, it is hard to cool him off.  Not to mention Bacon & Clark.  Ironically, on the offensive side, we held Vucevic in check [0-7 from trey]

I thought Bomba looked graceful and athletic in his 10 minutes.  $10,000,000 qualifying offer graceful?  He needs to be force fed significant minutes.  Not happenning on the Knicks. 

By the way Bo, I WAS KP'S DRIVER, but he fired me to hire a cousin, citing suspicions that I was a Phil Jackson mole and noting that I was too damn short. 

Ah, yes Bo, plotting some your prescient roster moves are we.  Need more talent, and clearly Knox, Ntilikina and Rivers would bring back a king's ransom.  So far, most of your proposals have involved shuffling the deck and exchanging our scrubs for their scrubs, well, nor scrubs, but untapped talents with a world of upside, which of course explains why teams would be willing to give them to us.  Bon appetite. 
Title: PS
Post by: chipstern on February 18, 2021, 02:02:12 PM
The salary cap space was accrued, while not as sexy as some your free agent targets, was a significant element of the Porzingis Trade. 

Again, $ > Randle, $ > Morris > Quickley + Detroit's 2021 #2, Smith > Rose, 2021 Unprotected #1, 2023 Top 10 Protected #1

Pretty good haul. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 18, 2021, 03:04:12 PM
Some day we may even reach .500
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 18, 2021, 04:18:16 PM
I still prefer reaching and winning the play in game to see the playoffs this year while keeping our pick in the lotto.

Footwork and spacing need to be clean for us to score consistently. That wasn’t the case for us against the Magic, hence we got waxed. Live and learn.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 18, 2021, 04:33:57 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 18, 2021, 03:04:12 PM
Some day we may even reach .500

Tantalizingly close are we not. 

If we had won last night we'd have been the #4 seed in the East.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 18, 2021, 04:54:55 PM
Julius playing so well in part because he is top dog is a good catch - with the aside to his work/conditioning

But this dude was always an excellent player.

I recall being on a bit of an island on that one.

Imagine - he hits for 44 and that isnt his career high.

Not often you are able to add a guy with a 45 point game on his resume.  I think many of you emphasized his warts way too much

That said - I will repeat - we WIN when Julius is no longer our best guy - or is at least 1 to a 1A (yes, this guy could come in the summer/fall, doesnt have to be a deal in season).

Meantime I have no trouble enjoying this group.

Title: BoD's Nutritional Requirements
Post by: chipstern on February 18, 2021, 04:59:41 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 18, 2021, 04:18:16 PM
I still prefer reaching and winning the play in game to see the playoffs this year while keeping our pick in the lotto.

Footwork and spacing need to be clean for us to score consistently. That wasn’t the case for us against the Magic, hence we got waxed. Live and learn.

As per Bo's persistent drumbeat, we have not of late been getting the production, consistent production we need out of the 3-Spot. 

AS OF RIGHT NOW, just for giggles, we have the #15,#17 and #32 picks in the draft. 

NBA. Draft, admittedly non scientific has us selecting

15 > Greg Brown, a 6'9" SF/PF out of Texas

17 > Corey Kispert, a 6'7" SF out of Gonzaga

32 > Josh Giddey, a 6'8" PG out of Australia

Again, just for giggles, Kispert would seem to fufill some of BoD's nutritional requirements.

A 22 year old senior, he has show dramatic improvement over four years, he is basically doing 19-5-7 in 20 minutes a night, draining .479% of his treys, based on 6.1 attempts, and converting .891% of his FTs based on 3.2 attempts. 

Oh, and Gonzaga is presently 20-0 with lottery pick projected PG Jason Suggs. 

Food for thought.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 18, 2021, 05:05:54 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 18, 2021, 03:04:12 PM
Some day we may even reach .500

Keeping an eye on that Nets-Knicks first round tilt.  Could now be a 1 v 8 as good as BK looks.

But Knicks out of the lottery right now unless they hit the brakes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 18, 2021, 05:09:58 PM
I have watched a bunch of Gonzaga games this year.  Kispert can shoot it lights out but i'm not sure why they have him at 17 but teammate Drew Timme is projected to go so low at  57. I would take the value of a Timme draft choice over Kispert.  Timme is bigger and has the same or better stats across the board except is only shooting 43% from 3 and 68% from the line.  Timme takes far fewer threes but I'm sure that would change in the NBA.   Kispert is more one-dimensional (half his shot attempts are 3 pointers) of a prospect ala Doug McDermott.  Not bad at all .... but Timme could be an undervalued guy. The kind Pat Riley would scoop up in the 2nd round for Miami.   Maybe even draft both of them!

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/stats/_/id/2250 (https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/stats/_/id/2250)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 18, 2021, 05:28:50 PM
When I saw Kispert he reminded me of BOBBY JONES

I think he is the better athlete of the 2.  Not always right but that plays when getting into first round.
Title: Knicks have nothing to lose by trading for All-Star center [Marc Berman, NIMROD]
Post by: chipstern on February 18, 2021, 06:45:46 PM
My GOD

https://nypost.com/2021/02/18/knicks-have-nothing-to-lose-by-trading-for-andre-drummond/ (https://nypost.com/2021/02/18/knicks-have-nothing-to-lose-by-trading-for-andre-drummond/)

Alan Hahn

This makes ZERO sense for the Knicks.

Nothing to lose?!

Only thing you have to lose is an asset. Oh and room in the already clogged paint. And defensive versatility. Don't forget team chemistry, as well.

Other than that, nothing else, I guess.
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Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 19, 2021, 12:58:10 PM
Quote
Assuming Harden joins Jaylen Brown and Trae Young as East backcourt reserves, that leaves East coaches just four spots for a group of players that includes 2020 All-Stars Butler, Bam Adebayo, Khris Middleton, Domantas Sabonis, Ben Simmons and Jayson Tatum plus Malcolm Brogdon, Tobias Harris, Gordon Hayward, Zach LaVine, Julius Randle, Fred VanVleet and Nikola Vucevic.

Randle, Vuc, Sabonis, Bam and Simmons all seem very deserving.

Bo would leave off Harden.  Missed 14 out of 31 games.  That's nearly half the season.  Plus screwed over his old team.  Drop Harden and all 5 above make the AS team.
KD would be borderline -- missed 12 of 31.
Also, Butler has missed too much time.

FVV and Tatum have been impressive, though I think Tatum has been slumping (haven't followed BOS in a few weeks).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 19, 2021, 03:07:29 PM
I don't think it's that close. The stats are gaudy. There are so many arguments for Julius — his impact is undeniable. And every team targets him, because we have no other stars. Does anyone think that Khris Middleton would do as well over here if, say, he took the place of Julius?

Maybe I'm blinded by my Knick fandom. Don't know. But it seems awfully clear to me.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 19, 2021, 04:16:39 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 19, 2021, 03:07:29 PM
I don't think it's that close. The stats are gaudy. There are so many arguments for Julius — his impact is undeniable. And every team targets him, because we have no other stars. Does anyone think that Khris Middleton would do as well over here if, say, he took the place of Julius?

Maybe I'm blinded by my Knick fandom. Don't know. But it seems awfully clear to me.

To me, the predominant players are all of the bigs: Sabonis, Bam, Julius and Vucevic. 

But they are all worthy. 
Title: Julius Randle & JJ Reddick
Post by: chipstern on February 19, 2021, 05:34:50 PM
A wonderful portrait of Julius on JJ's podcast. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?fbclid=IwAR2nnE9JoJPBpDJUDSqZ6Zt6_UVihJ-HPsWMEkO_cW1UILuUSS7qxQ1j8mQ&v=Db31ESX-Vm8&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?fbclid=IwAR2nnE9JoJPBpDJUDSqZ6Zt6_UVihJ-HPsWMEkO_cW1UILuUSS7qxQ1j8mQ&v=Db31ESX-Vm8&feature=youtu.be)

Apros pos of JJ Reddick, he is no spring chicken at 36, and perhaps from age, or perhaps from usage, there has been a fall off in his play under Stan Van Gundy. 

Last season in 26.2 minutes a game, based on 6.6 shots, he was converting treys at a .453% clip, this season in 18.2 minutes, only [ONLY] .368%, however his FT% is .972% based on 35-36 shots, whereas last season he finished with .892% based on 165-185. 

Not saying we SHOULD, but that we MIGHT consider giving NO some cap relief for JJ's expiring $13 million, maybe for one of our future #2 picks, though we would have to pry a body loose for a roster spot, say, Austin Rivers, who I like, but we still have Frank, and I am not sure I would parlay Frank and or Kevin for a 36 year old, even if he puts me in mind of Pablo Prigioni, in terms of peidgree, experience, leadership and still significant skill set. 

JJ Redick is a down cat, a good teammate, and has a crib in Brooklyn. 

From what we saw against Orlando, it would not hurt to have a sniper like that to unleash in the fourth quarter.  And like Derrick, would have much value as both a sniper and a mentor as we hunker down for a playoff push. 

Oladipo.  Levine.  You kidding me.  We'd have to gut our team and our assets.  Why do people think the Bulls are shopping Zach?  Seriously? 

Marc Berman's wet dream?  Andre Drummond?  Bad fit.  Tyson Chandler?  If it comes to that.

Anyway, this is a really nice interview, and Julius comes across as warm cat, a down dude, and a good Daddy.

Let alone, A FUCKING ALLSTAR. 
Title: Dame
Post by: chipstern on February 19, 2021, 06:04:52 PM
Love me some Luka. 

But in what quadrant of the known galaxy is this MF not atop every all star ballot, let alone a perennial starter?  SERIOUSLY? 

An iron man, a leader, and who at 30, is getting better and better and shows no signs of having peaked. 

Oh, and totally loyal to his coach, his team and the city of Portland.  Not looking to pull a James Harden. 

A M-A-N. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 19, 2021, 09:26:59 PM
I hadnt heard anyone targeting Randle, elephant.

Can you recall any murmurs that we could trade him?

Or did you mean they target him - as in guarding him closely and/or with multiple players?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 19, 2021, 09:34:44 PM
He means Randle is the clear main focus of opposition defense, our obvious A1A alpha dog player.
Title: Funny Chamaco!
Post by: carlos123 on February 19, 2021, 09:46:43 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 19, 2021, 09:34:44 PM
He means Randle is the clear main focus of opposition defense, our obvious A1A alpha dog player.

Fac, Chamaco must know what elephant meant. Even he can't be so dim!

I think he was just trying, unsuccessfully, to be witty and ironically funny.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3ckosSoTRHGXG4k-OCA2pVXfzewhXuzBYoGpsyMZVnzDq9ClI46oruQhbgSzQ9NiWcRnXh17QQU1T2E-x8FKtLT4EzHS0NTRyTH3a3D_76D71Q-i9VLGdWCOYKW1N7yNCrXtD_KYx0uYx_1P39yT7qh=w368-h570-no?authuser=0)
Title: Dennis
Post by: chipstern on February 19, 2021, 10:18:12 PM
Alas, 0-for-7 in 21 minutes.

But with 5 assists, 4 rebounds, 3 steals and 3 blocks. 

Go figure. 
Title: Re: Dennis
Post by: chipstern on February 19, 2021, 10:19:23 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 19, 2021, 10:18:12 PM
Alas, 0-for-7 in 21 minutes.

But with 5 assists, 4 rebounds, 3 steals and 3 blocks. 

Go figure.

PS: Grant is 5-20. So it's a group grope on offense. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 19, 2021, 10:20:04 PM
Leave Harden off the AS team.  Played just 17 of 31 games for BKY.
Another 8 for HOU, where he wasn't in shape, was disengaged, missed a few games because he partied without a mask, and bailed on his team.  That's an all-star?

Randle, Sabonis, Simmons, Bam, Vuc all deserving.

FVV and Tatum not far off.

Westbrook: 40 / 30 / 62 shooting splits.
That's real bad.
I saw a Wiz game the other day where Westbrook just shot WAS out of a tight game with a number of clanks in clutch time.  He also made two hustle plays saving balls from going out of bounds.   But just running around as a one man team isn't basketball.
Yuck.  Rustbrook has been one of the least clutch stars his whole career, dating back to OKC days.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 19, 2021, 11:23:33 PM
FVV and Tatum not far off.


Brown over Tatum
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 19, 2021, 11:46:48 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 19, 2021, 09:26:59 PM
I hadnt heard anyone targeting Randle, elephant.

Can you recall any murmurs that we could trade him?

Or did you mean they target him - as in guarding him closely and/or with multiple players?

No, no, I just meant the latter.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 19, 2021, 11:48:05 PM
They are not in competition. Backcourt/frontcourt.

I was going with that ESPn article I quoted, assuming Jayen and Trae would be backcourt reserves.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 20, 2021, 12:13:11 AM
Btw, #5 pick Okoro struggling mightily on O:
39 / 25 / 67 on the season; 34 / 17 / 63 in FEB
5.65 PER
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 20, 2021, 10:32:05 AM
Yes

But we knew that and so did the Cavs really.

I still like the look of Avdija

And Williams has gotten raves all across the league

Word is about 4 teams were trying to trade up for Williams.

Also heard that Hayes  was second on Knicks PG depth chart prior to their finding out about his hip

Did DET not do their homework?  Or did they save us from Knicks maybe taking him anyway?

Have a good Saturday.
Title: Coffing With Some BBQ
Post by: chipstern on February 20, 2021, 11:21:53 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 20, 2021, 12:13:11 AM
Btw, #5 pick Okoro struggling mightily on O:
39 / 25 / 67 on the season; 34 / 17 / 63 in FEB
5.65 PER

You don't say?  Indeed he is. 

However against Denver, IO was 5-10. 3-6 from trey, for 14-3-2 with a steal and a block. A growth curve?  Nah, BoD has spoken. So let it be written, so let it be done.  Oh and no love for Anthony Edwards, who was 3-14 and 0-7 from trey. 

On the other hand, Jamal Murray, taken by Denver with a first round option flip pick they got from the Knicks [we hasten to add], was 21-25 and 8-10 from trey for 50 big ones without taking a single free throw. 

PS: Joel Embid, was 17-26, 15-17 from the FT line, for 50 big ones with 17 rebounds, 5 assists, 2 steals and 4 blocks.  Chris Paul had 15 points and 19 assists as the Suns beat the Pelicans.  Jae Crowder was 6-8 from trey.  Lonzo Ball was 6-12 from trey and 3-4 from FT with 12 assists. 
Title: Yute
Post by: bodiddley on February 20, 2021, 05:04:05 PM
Edwards is somewhat like Cam Reddish -- something of a mess on both ends, but young and uber athletic.  Did you see Edwards baseline dunk a night or two ago? 

Minny has been mostly a mess.  Maybe KAT's return will settle things down.  But it seems to be a team of one-way players.

Reddish seems to benefiting from Hunter's absence.  At least he's getting more time and touches.  Never know if he's going to do something smooth or crazy.

Avdija looks like he knows the game, but plays passively.  Also, he barely gets to the FT line and shoots just 58% from there.  What's that?
Maybe with Westbrook zooming all around hellbent on stats, it's hard to assert yourself(?)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 20, 2021, 05:05:10 PM
BALL now shooting 43/39/74

PER of 15.1
Title: Reddish
Post by: chipstern on February 20, 2021, 05:25:30 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 20, 2021, 05:04:05 PM
Edwards is somewhat like Cam Reddish -- something of a mess on both ends, but young and uber athletic.  Did you see Edwards baseline dunk a night or two ago? 

Minny has been mostly a mess.  Maybe KAT's return will settle things down.  But it seems to be a team of one-way players.

Reddish seems to benefiting from Hunter's absence.  At least he's getting more time and touches.  Never know if he's going to do something smooth or crazy.

Avdija looks like he knows the game, but plays passively.  Also, he barely gets to the FT line and shoots just 58% from there.  What's that?
Maybe with Westbrook zooming all around hellbent on stats, it's hard to assert yourself(?)

I thought Reddish looked really nice and aggressive against the Knicks, but then I looked at the box score. 

My love for Quickley and Haliburton notwithstanding, for Rookie Of The Year it's LaMelo Ball by a country mile. 
Title: Lonzo BALLING and Other Smoke Signals, Minues the Fire
Post by: chipstern on February 20, 2021, 05:45:16 PM
Duly noted that Brother Lonzo has been progressing of late.

Last time I looked he was getting to the free throw line with more consistency, and was 6-12 from trey last time out. 

He is making 11 million this year, and his qualifying offer next year is $14.3 million. 

I keep hearing he's on the trading block, which baffles me. 

Are the Knicks interested? 

Just perused HoopsHype for my daily dose or rumors. 

"WORD IS" that our own World Wide Wes is working the back channels to suggest that maybe Bradley Beal should think about pushing for a new team, and that the Knicks are monitoring CJ McCollum. 

Not sure how much veracity I place in either narrative. 

Just passing things along as a pubic cervix, er, a PUBLIC SERVICE. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 20, 2021, 06:35:39 PM
On Brad Beal

Knicks "open to giving up assets", do not want to let 15 mil in cap space expire

https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/ny-bradley-beal-20210220-rbtjyykei5frtn6jxlqn7ogvma-story.html
Title: NBA G League - now
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 20, 2021, 07:36:08 PM
Sorry for the late notice

7 PM start

Westchester at Austin

MSG Network
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 20, 2021, 08:32:44 PM
J Johnson of Duke has left school

Character flaw?

(Team is 9-8, 7-6)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 20, 2021, 09:39:34 PM
Sounds like he wasn’t all the way back from injury. Why preserve your amateur status when you can train and rehab with pros and take money for it when you know you aren’t helping your team.

Right move by Johnson even if it knocks him down a few spots. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 21, 2021, 10:28:58 AM
My impression is that BKY is better when only 2 of the Big 3 play.  Maybe they can figure out a semi-credible defensive scheme
as they get more time together.  But do you really expect Nash and D'ant to instill and defense?  And how good can you expect your D to be when you have Kyrie, Harden and often Joe Harris out ther?
They've been an offensive juggernaut when those guys & KD play with Jeff Green at C.  But hemorrhage points. 

Harden at PG was a smart adjustment.  But they're likely going to need to stagger minutes, so the bench unit has Kyrie at PG and sometimes KD with him.
I'd be aiming to have 2/3rds of the Big 3 out there almost all 48 ...
 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 21, 2021, 01:05:45 PM
Last February, ex-Knick Shane Larkin received Turkish citizenship and is a member of Turkey's national team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on February 21, 2021, 03:00:39 PM
Enes is not amused...
Title: 5700
Post by: carlos123 on February 21, 2021, 04:44:46 PM
BoZ, u need one more post to reach 5700.

Go for it!!! 🏋🏽‍♂️
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 21, 2021, 08:22:42 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 21, 2021, 10:28:58 AM
My impression is that BKY is better when only 2 of the Big 3 play.  Maybe they can figure out a semi-credible defensive scheme
as they get more time together.  But do you really expect Nash and D'ant to instill and defense?  And how good can you expect your D to be when you have Kyrie, Harden and often Joe Harris out ther?
They've been an offensive juggernaut when those guys & KD play with Jeff Green at C.  But hemorrhage points. 

Harden at PG was a smart adjustment.  But they're likely going to need to stagger minutes, so the bench unit has Kyrie at PG and sometimes KD with him.
I'd be aiming to have 2/3rds of the Big 3 out there almost all 48 ...

I think your smart play is to stop criticizing the Nets

Though I guess you do get the last laugh if they do not win it all.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 21, 2021, 08:37:38 PM
So, who is the next Celtics coach going to be?


https://sports.yahoo.com/pelicans-rally-24-down-top-000304076.html
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 21, 2021, 09:34:45 PM
Disaster averted

A little puzzled right now on Rose/Payton.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 21, 2021, 09:40:24 PM
That 4th was ugly.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 21, 2021, 09:43:08 PM
That nearly sucked. Definitely not a 4th quarter for the ages.

Alec Burks calmly stepped to the line to salt the game away.

It definitely felt like more of a 90’s Knicks game than it should have.

It’s nice to miss that many bunnies and win the game even against a team as bad as the wolves.

I do like Naz Ried though. He’s a player.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 21, 2021, 09:58:13 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 13, 2021, 01:35:43 AM


Knix need to re-sign Mitch.   He's scheduled to make just $1.8M next year.  That's peanuts in the NBA for anybody let alone a starter.  We've taken advantage of him being a 2nd rounder long enough. One genuine injury and his career could be over or his earning power largely erased.  He's proven out.  Knix gotta take care of him with significant guaranteed money.  Get some discount for letting him out of his $1.8M next year deal.  While making sure a Boozer situation doesn't occur.

With Taj and Noel playing like this how much do you commit to Mitch?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 21, 2021, 10:12:48 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 21, 2021, 08:22:42 PM
I think your smart play is to stop criticizing the Nets
Though I guess you do get the last laugh if they do not win it all.

You have a abnormal approach/outlook.  The Nets could win the title, so they are beyond criticism?   I have no prediction or investment in their level of success, and don't really care how far they do/don't get.  Obviously they have fire- and star-power combined with defensive flaws.   I'm just trying to analyze/understand what they have/are.
So far this year, imo, a better team with 2 of the Big 3 than all 3 together. 

I like some of their role players, especially Brown and TLC.  And glad they picked up Vonleh even if he's deep backup.  Too bad Dimwiddie is out.

Pelton details how the Nets are imitating D'ant's last year's Rocket (https://www.espn.in/nba/insider/story/_/id/30935264/nba-mailbag-brooklyn-nets-find-defense-sacrificing-elite-offense)s, going small (Jeff Green at C) and switching over 40% of PnR's.  Trying to have an active D that does enough to let the explosive O win games. harden already knows this scheme.  KD and Green are very switchable players.  It's interesting how Nets keep becoming more and more Harden's team.  He's now the PG and dominates the ball, they have a switch heavy D scheme imported from HOU, which allows Harden to guard inside where he's solid, instead of the perimeter where he's iffier.  Then again, Harden is the only one suiting up every game.

Overall PHI, MIL, NJ are the prime contenders.  Strong teams with flaws.  Any of them could get hot at the right time, or fade in the playoffs.  BOS, TOR, IND look like good second tier teams.  MIA struggling to get back in the conversation.
Title: Re: 5700
Post by: bodiddley on February 21, 2021, 10:43:16 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 21, 2021, 04:44:46 PM
BoZ, u need one more post to reach 5700.
Go for it!!! 🏋🏽‍♂️

And almost all of my posts are actually about basketball instead of about the other posters here.  Imagine that ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 21, 2021, 11:02:33 PM
Who's in charge of stickers today, class? Could someone give Bo another smiley face?


***I would do it myself but teacher told me I'm supposed to hand out the sporks at lunch

*****Carlos, we're having a party with cupcakes when I reach my thousandth luvdrop.

*** Looks like we saw Saunders last game. Not surprised. Something didn't seem right there, everybody seemed too happy, smiling & joking even as they squandered their chance to win.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 21, 2021, 11:37:11 PM
Minnesota did their coach dirty.
Title: Re: 5700
Post by: carlos123 on February 21, 2021, 11:50:26 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 21, 2021, 10:43:16 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 21, 2021, 04:44:46 PM
BoZ, u need one more post to reach 5700.
Go for it!!! 🏋🏽‍♂️

And almost all of my posts are actually about basketball instead of about the other posters here.  Imagine that ...

Two posters here keep me very busy: you and Chamaco Cartero, kinda twin souls 👯‍♀️

Les, you truly are my doggie. Who’s a nice boy, my doggie’s a very good boy! 🐶
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 22, 2021, 12:12:02 AM
TyH becoming one of my favorite NBAers.
Goes for 14, 3 assists and a steal ... in the 4Q v MIL.
6-8 FG's.  He was scoring inside, out, midrange.

One play Ty starts driving around a screen, gets his defenders behind him on his hip, sees Giannis in front of him, and dribbles backs out and hits a step back 3.  Ouch.
Feeling it after going 5-7, Ty tries a step-back 3 over the bigger Portis.  Bucks push off the miss, and Halibut is stuck defending Portis in the post.  Portis bumps Ty, who then backs off so Portis can't feel him, and as Portis drives right, TyH steps around him and ties him up from the side as Portis turns to shoot.  Crafty D, using his quickness on a larger dude.

TyH finished 23 / 8 / 5 / 2 steals.  Great energy and feel for the game.
Not sure why he doesn't start, but he almost always finishes.
TyH could make the game simpler for Fox.

Kings also trotted out somebody named Daquan Jeffries (6'5") who battled Antetekoumpo nicely.  Terrific effort from an undrafted player from Tulsa.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 22, 2021, 04:00:42 AM
Enjoying the GLeague Ignite team. Amir Johnson, Jack, and Bobby Brown are their vets. Their kids are excellent and angling for this upcoming draft.
Title: Explaining why one man can have thousands of custom tailored suits ...
Post by: bodiddley on February 22, 2021, 09:13:41 AM
Knix Trivia:
What is Clyde's MSG announcing salary?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 22, 2021, 10:36:42 AM
That I don't know, but I do know that he has a LIFETIME contract with Puma....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 23, 2021, 10:18:48 AM
The info I saw reported that Clyde makes $4.5M announcing for MSG.
Which can buy quite a few bizarre suits.  And plenty of trees for his Virgin Island estate.

So Clyde makes more than 2 Knick starters --  Bullox $4.2M & Mitch a mere $1.7M, and nearly the same as a 3rd starter (ELF = $4.77M)

CLyde makes more than Mitch and Quicks combined.
Frazier pockets roughly the same as Kevin Knox ($4.59M), and a little less than Toppin ($4.86M).

https://hoopshype.com/salaries/new_york_knicks/

Clyde's current broadcast salary is probably more than he earned in his entire 13 year playing career.  It seems Clyde made 300K at his peak (?)

This is tantalizing from a talk Clyde gave at an accounting society:
Quote
Only three younger players have ever come to him for advice during his 30 years of broadcasting, he noted, in part because he has to keep some distance so he can report on them objectively for viewers. But he worries they may need financial advice if they want to hold onto their earnings when their playing days are over.

But it doesn't say which 3 players!
Of course Clyde is old school and wants to remain objective, which is more the exception than the rule for team broadcasters who tend to be homers.

Anyway it's good that the Knix/MSG take good care of Clyde and pay him well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 23, 2021, 01:20:50 PM
I once asked Clyde and Kenny Smith why Walt didnt get any national gigs.

Now I know why.  No need.

(and being busy as a restauranteur, as well, I'd think)
Title: Interesting Rumor
Post by: chipstern on February 23, 2021, 04:24:57 PM
Now THIS was interesting. 

Not sure that I believe it, but hey....

The Dallas Mavericks are purportedly making the rounds exploring what might be, MIGHT BE, inquiries round the league as to what the market might be for Kristaps Porzingis. 

Not sure he is the optimum fit to Luka. 

Among other things, there is a sense that he cannot defend anyone. 

All things being equal, be one hell of a contract for anyone to take on.   

Anyway, does one believe this?

Multiple reports from Monday and Tuesday linked Dallas to having quiet discussions feeling out possible trade partners for Porzingis. However, Mavs owner Mark Cuban has outright denied those claims. – via SportsDay Staff @ Dallas Morning News

Those comments did not sit well with Cuban who said the Mavericks weren’t happy that there was a “supposed ‘Western Conference exec’ ripping on one of our players.” “I think they just used it as a way to put out there what they think of KP,” Cuban said. – via SportsDay Staff @ Dallas Morning News

$29,467,800   $31,650,600   $33,833,400   $36,016,200

The Dallas Mavericks have reached out to the Golden State Warriors to gauge interest in a Kristaps Porzingis trade, sources tell SNY’s Ian Begley. Porzingis, 25, has had an up-and-down tenure in Dallas, showing flashes of offensive brilliance but dealing with injury issues and questions about his defense. – via SportsNet New York
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 23, 2021, 05:39:55 PM
GSW owns Minny's #1 (protected 1-3 in 2021 unprotected in 2022).   They could deal Wiggins and Minny's pick for KP.
Title: Fuk KP (and his brother too)
Post by: carlos123 on February 23, 2021, 05:41:45 PM
Draymond Green would be a much better fit, but salaries probably don’t match, and why would GS do it? Last I checked, they ain’t crazy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 23, 2021, 05:55:34 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 23, 2021, 05:39:55 PM
GSW owns Minny's #1 (protected 1-3 in 2021 unprotected in 2022).   They could deal Wiggins and Minny's pick for KP.

You do that if you are GS?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 23, 2021, 06:08:27 PM
Speaking of the draft, check out the Thundering Herd if you get the chance.

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/taevion-kinsey/

Projected at 16th pick.  A 21 year old junior who can fill it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 23, 2021, 06:36:44 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 23, 2021, 05:55:34 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 23, 2021, 05:39:55 PM
GSW owns Minny's #1 (protected 1-3 in 2021 unprotected in 2022).   They could deal Wiggins and Minny's pick for KP.

You do that if you are GS?

They don't need another rookie and it looks like the pick won't convey til 2022.  They need another core piece to compete for another ring while they still have Prime Steph.  As far as 3rd bananas go KP makes a better one offensively than Wiggins or Draymond.  Wiseman, Green, KP, Klay, Steph.  That's a complete lineup.  Just need to furnish the bench.
Title: Re: Fuk KP (and his brother too)
Post by: Kam on February 23, 2021, 06:39:55 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 23, 2021, 05:41:45 PM
Draymond Green would be a much better fit, but salaries probably don’t match, and why would GS do it? Last I checked, they ain’t crazy.

Green only fits with GS.  His attitude and play don't befit that of a #2.  He would also clash with Carlisle.  Kerr keeps him in check.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 23, 2021, 06:47:48 PM
RANDLE MAKES ALL STAR GAME
Title: Re: Fuk KP (and his brother too)
Post by: carlos123 on February 23, 2021, 07:35:56 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 23, 2021, 06:39:55 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 23, 2021, 05:41:45 PM
Draymond Green would be a much better fit, but salaries probably don’t match, and why would GS do it? Last I checked, they ain’t crazy.

Green only fits with GS.  His attitude and play don't befit that of a #2.  He would also clash with Carlisle.  Kerr keeps him in check.

But defends and provides assists to his teammates, while KP is a fragile prima donna.
Title: Randle
Post by: carlos123 on February 23, 2021, 07:42:22 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 23, 2021, 06:47:48 PM
RANDLE MAKES ALL STAR GAME

Great news and well deserved!

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3eR7JC9xsEF0unwhb57wxE0Kw1uaJR_MGuEpq8PTkGkwYLaX2NlFBKeMhidoeaI1xYQGnBLR5iKpXgu_mAmdSAHySa03dV0v0e1Mbpod0OLA3h0koqthLR4sgk0b8isYn6C4YpMAnoOFXAOTEz02i3p=w598-h411-no?authuser=0)

THE KING OF NEW YORK

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 23, 2021, 10:08:48 PM
The game giveth and the game taketh away...

Congrats to Jules. Now everyone go watch film.

Anyone notice that Obi is fairly credibly checking wings from time to time?

Payton is extending how far into the game he can keep driving lanes open. One of his better outings.

On a night where the Dubs had a little of their magic, we had our chances.

Film & night school and a better effort next time. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 23, 2021, 10:11:42 PM
Holy shit. Luka.

You got to see the last 30 seconds of the Dallas game.
Title: Re: Fuk KP (and his brother too)
Post by: Kam on February 23, 2021, 10:11:46 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 23, 2021, 07:35:56 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 23, 2021, 06:39:55 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 23, 2021, 05:41:45 PM
Draymond Green would be a much better fit, but salaries probably don’t match, and why would GS do it? Last I checked, they ain’t crazy.

Green only fits with GS.  His attitude and play don't befit that of a #2.  He would also clash with Carlisle.  Kerr keeps him in check.

But defends and provides assists to his teammates, while KP is a fragile prima donna.

You were the one suggesting GS trade him for KP.  I'm suggesting GS add KP without trading him.
Title: Re: Fuk KP (and his brother too)
Post by: carlos123 on February 23, 2021, 10:16:02 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 23, 2021, 10:11:46 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 23, 2021, 07:35:56 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 23, 2021, 06:39:55 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 23, 2021, 05:41:45 PM
Draymond Green would be a much better fit, but salaries probably don’t match, and why would GS do it? Last I checked, they ain’t crazy.

Green only fits with GS.  His attitude and play don't befit that of a #2.  He would also clash with Carlisle.  Kerr keeps him in check.

But defends and provides assists to his teammates, while KP is a fragile prima donna.

You were the one suggesting GS trade him for KP.  I'm suggesting GS add KP without trading him.

Kamster, I was saying it'd be good for Dallas, but GS would be crazy if they did it. By the way, KP has not played for a while, is he hurt again? Don't matter, Dallas seems to play better without him.
Title: Hey Les
Post by: carlos123 on February 23, 2021, 10:19:00 PM
Les, my doggie, you were going to MSG when they allowed fans in. Were you the guy with the pink panther mask?

OTOH, just to state the obvious, we need a reliable three-point shooter.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 23, 2021, 10:19:42 PM
The Houston Rockets waived center DeMarcus Cousins on Tuesday.
Title: Re: Fuk KP (and his brother too)
Post by: Kam on February 23, 2021, 10:20:28 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 23, 2021, 10:16:02 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 23, 2021, 10:11:46 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 23, 2021, 07:35:56 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 23, 2021, 06:39:55 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 23, 2021, 05:41:45 PM
Draymond Green would be a much better fit, but salaries probably don’t match, and why would GS do it? Last I checked, they ain’t crazy.

Green only fits with GS.  His attitude and play don't befit that of a #2.  He would also clash with Carlisle.  Kerr keeps him in check.

But defends and provides assists to his teammates, while KP is a fragile prima donna.

You were the one suggesting GS trade him for KP.  I'm suggesting GS add KP without trading him.

Kamster, I was saying it'd be good for Dallas, but GS would be crazy if they did it. By the way, KP has not played for a while, is he hurt again? Don't matter, Dallas seems to play better without him.

I bet Luka is sick of him.
Title: Re: Fuk KP (and his brother too)
Post by: carlos123 on February 23, 2021, 10:24:55 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 23, 2021, 10:20:28 PM
I bet Luka is sick of him.

That too! 😁
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 24, 2021, 11:20:27 AM
Nets reportedly re-signing Shump and Roberson on 10-day contracts.
Looking to save money on salaries since the tax ups them, and have flexibility in case anybody interesting gets waived.
_____________________________________________________________

Knix kept it close despite being outplayed 1Q.  But then Knix couldn't get much of a lead despite the bench outplaying GSW's bench 2Q.  Rose had a real strong 1st half and was energetic all game.  I don't hear many calls for IQ to replace Elf as the starting PG anymore.
And Burks has looked fairly ordinary. 

Toppings had a nice game in just 13 minutes.
Elf played hard.  RJB was out of sorts. 
Taj & Randle were snagging every rebound, which kept NYK in the game 4Q.
18 Knick Off-rebounds. 

Wars 30 assists to just 10 turns.
Scurry impressive in the endgame.
Dray had some mighty fine assists on backdoor cuts, often set up by Scurry screening for a Big (WideMan and Oubre) on the perimeter.  Nice action by Kerr, to use fear of Scurry getting free, allowing a Big to slip to the rim.

Uber had a solid game, nicely active.  Cut nicely for Dray and Scurry feeds.
Early season talk was how Uber's cutting was clashing with Scurry's scurrying, sometimes literally so as they'd run into each other.  Looked much better coordinated this game (and last).   Uber also guarded Elf a good amount, so Steph could take it easy guarding Bullox who has vowed never to shoot in the 2nd half.  Knix never made Curry work onN D.
There seems to be zero chemistry/interaction between Uber and Wiggy.
Dray really holds the team together on both ends.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 24, 2021, 11:41:17 AM
Nets reportedly re-signing Shump and Roberson on 10-day contracts.


Thanks for the info

I had just deleted my post, seeing that it didnt really fit the conversation.

Saw Roberson playing last night.  Was wondering what occurred.

NETS continue to roll.

Haliburton was impressive, at one point draining 4 of 5 from deep.  Went cold later on.  SAC played three guards for most of what I saw, which was the last 21 minutes.
Title: Listen Up
Post by: lesterluv on February 24, 2021, 11:55:55 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 24, 2021, 11:20:27 AM
I don't hear many calls for IQ to replace Elf as the starting PG anymore.

REPLACE ELF AS THE STARTING PG WITH IQ


*** even at his ..er..."best"....elf puts a ceiling on ya that is so low, is what it is, glad he's keeping himself out of Turkmenistan for a while longer

** agree with ya on Burks, pedestrian as fk lately, the more he tries to do, the worse it often looks..
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 24, 2021, 05:26:40 PM
At least Burks tries to do more.
Bullox goes all passive plenty of games/stretches.
Frustrating as he can score.

Congrats to Randle for being named an All Star.
He deserves it by being Mr. Everything on O for NYK, and playing improved defense under Thibs.

I would have had Bam in there instead of Vuc; and FVV over Zach.
But Zach Lowe made the case that Vuc does the same as Randle for NY, but at a more important position.  Lowe had both Randle and Vuc on his AS squad.
Sabonis and Vuc are worthy candidates as well.
I would have gone Randle and Bam (by far the best defender of that quartet of all-around Big Men). 

The three plus games I've seen CHI, Zach played one good quarter.  And some sub-par D.
So maybe just small sample on my part, but Z-lavie doesn't seem to impact winning.
While FVV has been a 2-way terror and TOR's best player.  Seems more impactful.
Title: Re: Listen Up
Post by: chipstern on February 24, 2021, 05:56:16 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on February 24, 2021, 11:55:55 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 24, 2021, 11:20:27 AM
I don't hear many calls for IQ to replace Elf as the starting PG anymore.

REPLACE ELF AS THE STARTING PG WITH IQ


*** even at his ..er..."best"....elf puts a ceiling on ya that is so low, is what it is, glad he's keeping himself out of Turkmenistan for a while longer

** agree with ya on Burks, pedestrian as fk lately, the more he tries to do, the worse it often looks..

His head still abides
Within his butt
Reflexively pandering
Mean spirited smut
That such Trumpian Meanness
Endures, alas
But then this snarky 'ol yard dawg
Sure Loves to sniff his OWN Ass

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 24, 2021, 06:10:37 PM
At least Burks tries to do more.
Bullox goes all passive plenty of games/stretches.
Frustrating as he can score.

I usually go off most recent performance.

Last year Burks had it over Bullock - and this year AB is shooting 3s at a 40% clip - what we sorely needed.

That we are 15-17 and were a 22 win O/U team speaks volumes of the new additions as much as the improvement of Julius's line.  Throwing more than lip service at defensive emphasis of course the #1 element.
Title: Les woofs Elfrid
Post by: carlos123 on February 24, 2021, 10:25:58 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on February 24, 2021, 11:55:55 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 24, 2021, 11:20:27 AM
I don't hear many calls for IQ to replace Elf as the starting PG anymore.

REPLACE ELF AS THE STARTING PG WITH IQ


*** even at his ..er..."best"....elf puts a ceiling on ya that is so low, is what it is, glad he's keeping himself out of Turkmenistan for a while longer

** agree with ya on Burks, pedestrian as fk lately, the more he tries to do, the worse it often looks..

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3caGBgxldTg6eyFKsYuMqGsPhLLM5FFjXgmA2QVTEUM-SSvlmBBT56ZudQAcRTyZUkzTcFaY_qc0t4X_jnfGKUFRnuE8nmYhM1S0ZLGrNatx9BkOHIB7QQNImuJqW5Fh1YNmRNN2AGXS4KR49HSSqLs=w614-h542-no?authuser=0)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 25, 2021, 01:08:36 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 24, 2021, 06:10:37 PM
Last year Burks had it over Bullock - and this year AB is shooting 3s at a 40% clip - what we sorely needed.

Burks season 3Pt % is still somewhat inflated from his 3-game December flamethrowing.
Since his first 3 games in Dec, Burks has shot a middling 35% on treys.  31% in 6 January games.  37% in 11 Feb games.  One can argue that Burks was returning after injury in Jan, and 37% in Feb is more a reflection of his prowess.  But that's the same % Bullocks has shot all season.  A solid, sightly above average % on 3's.

The point is that Burks isn't the 67% 3-point shooter he was in Dec, or the 31% shooter in Jan.  He's only temporarily an above 40% shooter as season totals have it.  Really he's the 37% guy in Feb.  A Bullox level 3-point shooter.

Reg Bull is a significantly better defender, both on ball and closing out on weak side shooters.
Which is why he starts.   

Burx has rebounded surprisingly well all season. 
The first 4 games Burx played he got a lot of FT's.  The first 7 games he got to the line.  Then the next 13 games he only had 3 games where he got any FT's at all.  We really haven't seen Burx drive in about a month.  And when he gets 0-boards he passes out and resets instead of aggressively trying to score.

Most of our shooting g's/wings make 2's at the same rate as 3's (and as each other). 
Bullox: 40.7% FG & 37.1 on 3's
Burks : 39.1%   &   40.2  (37% in Feb)
Quicks: 38.7%   &   36.5
D Rose: 38.4%  &   35.7

That's some low overall FG%
AuRivers: 43.0  &  36.4  actually has the best numbers

ELf has the best overall FG 44%, with a 2Pt% of 48%, but an anemic 24% on 3's.
Bullox is a healthy 46.3% on 2-Pointers, but he takes very few (just 3 attempts per game)
2 Point FG%: Quicks = 41%; Rose 39%; Burks 38%; Rivers 52%
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 25, 2021, 11:34:22 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 24, 2021, 05:26:40 PM
The three plus games I've seen CHI, Zach played one good quarter.  And some sub-par D.
So maybe just small sample on my part, but Z-lavie doesn't seem to impact winning.
While FVV has been a 2-way terror and TOR's best player.  Seems more impactful.

Well, Levine looked pretty good with his 35 points last night.

Maybe you're on to something, but I've had a different experience, and whenever I chance upon him, he's making the difference.

Speaking of impact, it's obvious that we need some offensive power. Am I too impatient to expect Barrett to step up more? He seems an average player with his spot up shot, but above average in his ability to drive through the paint to the hoop. So I keep hoping he will "exert his will" or some such shit. But maybe that's not him. I don't know.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 25, 2021, 12:35:17 PM
Burks season 3Pt % is still somewhat inflated from his 3-game December flamethrowing.


Could say this about most players.

Fact is off last season and off their CAREERS the current production levels of Burks and Bullock (13.4 vs 8,8 PER) are not surprising.

But I would agree AB has a higher level he could attain.  We may not have seen his best for 20-21.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 25, 2021, 12:37:07 PM
Well, Levine looked pretty good with his 35 points last night.


Bucket getters just do not grow on trees.

I had said this all along re:  RANDLE.

Bo thinks you can win without a good number of these type players

You can't.
Title: Dawgin' Around
Post by: chipstern on February 25, 2021, 03:05:01 PM
There once was a sampling of the species

Who took pride in his non-aromatic feces

In doggin' on one player

Whose shortcomings he laid bare

His credibility lay shattered in pieces
Title: Re: Dawgin' Around
Post by: chipstern on February 25, 2021, 04:37:59 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 25, 2021, 03:05:01 PM
There once was a sampling of the species

Who took pride in his non-aromatic feces

In doggin' on one player

Whose shortcomings he laid bare

His credibility lay shattered in pieces

There once was an overweight Jew
Who took exception with a Flatbush based shrew
In punking his foes
He proved how little he knows
Like a bad case of the Trumpian Flu
Title: Knick Knick [Dawg Dawg]
Post by: chipstern on February 25, 2021, 04:42:10 PM
"Knick Knick"

Who's scared?

"Scared who?"

Scared someone might find out I'm actually a rogue Nyets Fan
Title: Poor Zing Us
Post by: chipstern on February 25, 2021, 04:57:03 PM
Brad Townsend: On the 12:30 injury report, Kristaps Porzingis has been downgraded to doubtful and Maxi Kleber has been upgraded to probable for tonight’s game in Philly. – via Twitter townbrad

Mavs are 15-15

[Knicks are 15-17]


Impressive numbers when he suits up: 20.4 ppg, 8.2 boards, 47-55 from the FT stripe [.855%]

Out of 30 games in 2020-2021, he has suited up for 17. 

Out of 246 games from 2017-2020, he suited up for 105. 

"Don't cry for me Argentina..." 
Title: Knicks Tape
Post by: Kam on February 25, 2021, 05:18:55 PM
Hey guys,

Here's a link to a highlight reel my friend made that I helped put together.  Please watch, like, share, thanks!

https://twitter.com/i/status/1365058398383976451 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1365058398383976451)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 25, 2021, 06:13:57 PM
Nice I like the song choice. The end makes it poignant how good it is that we’re getting good now even though the schedule gods have worked hard to give us a second half that keeps us in the lottery.

Keep the faith for 9th or 10th, coming out playing our best ball.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 25, 2021, 08:13:13 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 25, 2021, 12:37:07 PM
Well, Levine looked pretty good with his 35 points last night.

Bucket getters just do not grow on trees.
I had said this all along re:  RANDLE.
Bo thinks you can win without a good number of these type players
You can't.

And Kid thinks you can win without defense (just outscore 'em!)
When scorers play chumpy D such as LeVine, Hield, Tim Jr, their scoring is just a mirage and doesn't contribute to winning.

I look for guys who play D and are consistent, to go with scoring.
Two-way players help you win.  When I've seen CHI, Young Thad seems more important to the game outcome than ZlaV.   Again, maybe I need to see CHI more.

A big difference with Randle this year is he is playing solid team D.  He's still a turnstyle in transition, and can get burned when forced to guard on the perimeter.  But he's been a much better defender in Thib's system.

Knix winning this year based on strong D.
Fox and Hiled are bucket-getters.  Kings 12-17.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 25, 2021, 09:57:23 PM
Burks goes off.
19 4Q points.  5 treys.

Luke waited too long to get Fox & TyH back in.
NYK lead ballooned to 20 when Luke finally gets his 2nd unit out of there, a couple minutes too late.

Hield looked totally disinterested.
Around 6 mins left, SacKings down 14 or so, Hield throws a pass right to Quickly, then fouls for no reason on the other end, and then runs directly into a Taj screen so Burks gets his 3rd straight 3.  Not surprised he finished with a team worst +/- (-22).

140 points.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 25, 2021, 10:15:19 PM
Two-way players help you win.  When I've seen CHI, Young Thad seems more important to the game outcome than ZlaV.   Again, maybe I need to see CHI more.


Yes, you do.

Your comment re:  Zach vs Van Vleet was puzzling.  ZL is a monster this year.

---

Nice bounce back tonight for IQ - and good to see Thibs use Frank

Rivers awaits his new destination, reportedly.

CELTS IN KNICKS REAR VIEW
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 25, 2021, 10:35:53 PM
I'm getting the impression Chip thinks I'm mean.

I don't think so. I just prefer some players over another player.*

Why can't I think that?

Yes, tonight was a DELIGHT.


* A player who fits in incredibly poorly with rest of our starting lineup

** Welcome back, Frank!!! (Guess my new fave backcourt combo)

** Stick to shooting those in-rhythm 3's, Alec, and we're good
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 25, 2021, 10:38:58 PM
FVV:  20 / 6.7 ass. / 4.5 boards.
1.7 steals (3rd in the NBofA), 2nd in the League in deflections (tied with Simmons), nearly a block a game for a short chunky guy.  Plays both ends at a high level and has been TOR's best player.  3rd in the League in minutes. They won 6 of 7 Lowry missed. 
Just contributes to winning.

Really enjoy watching TyH and the way he moves around the court.
Had 4 steals and just keeps the ball moving.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on February 25, 2021, 10:53:49 PM
yeah very nice game....dispiriting 3Q but the 4Q, oooh...very nice! 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 25, 2021, 11:45:30 PM
(https://preview.redd.it/s8s97v1dqqj61.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=89a41a938fa7a790b8a4043f08c6a22e923a4e0d)
Title: Fairy Tales Can Come True, They Can Happen To You...
Post by: chipstern on February 26, 2021, 12:58:38 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on February 25, 2021, 10:35:53 PM
I'm getting the impression Chip thinks I'm mean.

I don't think so. I just prefer some players over another player.*

Why can't I think that?

Yes, tonight was a DELIGHT.


* A player who fits in incredibly poorly with rest of our starting lineup

** Welcome back, Frank!!! (Guess my new fave backcourt combo)

** Stick to shooting those in-rhythm 3's, Alec, and we're good

Happy for you Dawg. 

Not EXACTLY what you wished for, but an interesting change of pace and reshuffling of the deck. 

How'd the Stones put it, something about not getting what you want but getting what you need. 

Thibs broke up the Rose/Quickley tandem. 

Instead of getting Quickley to start we got Rose. 

We got Rose-Barrett-Bullock-Randle-Noel

We got Quickley-Ntilikina-Burks-Obi-Taj

Oh, and obviously we got Julius with both units. 

Still.  Rose & Quickley, two ball dominant facilitators, who can create their own offense, and DEMAND COVERAGE.   
(https://cdn.newsday.com/polopoly_fs/1.50151945.1613180477!/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_456/image.jpg)

Not sharing the ball with each other, seemed to LIBERATE BOTH.

And seemed to, in turn, liberate both Barrett and Ntilikina.  Dig that. 

GOD BLESS THIBS.  We put up 140 and he's focused on how we gave up 121. 

Thibs WAS almost smiling. 

I WAS FUCKING SMILING

Fizdale was a great talker. 

BUT THIBS BACKS HIS SHIT The Fuck UP. 

To wit. 

All of that talk about whether or not you are part of the ten man rotation, practicing hard and purposefully, still putting in the work, let alone the extra work, hunkering down with coaches on the floor after practice, and in the film room...REMAINING READY. 

TO WIT. 

Frank hadn't played since what, sometime in December? 

The pairing with Quickley as the off guard was inspired. 

Frank was 3-6, with 3 steals and 2 assists in 23 minutes, but what was really impressive to me was his level of intensity.  Frank's motor was grinding much faster than I recall, more aggressive, but more focused and under control.  Thibs said STAY READY, BE PREPARED, and by God, FRANK WAS READY AND PREPARED. 

SIDE NOTE: Kevin got a glimmer of light in garbage time, and BANG, hit his only shot, a corner three.  SWEET. 

But after three or four desultory games, Derrick and Immanuel were DOPE.  Rose set a brisk pace to start, and really brought the fire to Fucks and Hell with 18-3-6.

And while Haliburton was VERY imoressive, Quickley was MORE IMPRESSIVE.  Yes, yes, I know, the threes, but what got me was his pace and aggression.  He had his flloater recalibrated again, and, AND, he hit a short midrage jumper, a trad pull up and pop.  Cool.  COOLER?  He was 12-for Fucking-12 from the FT line with 3 assists and 2 steals, and 25 points in 20 minutes. 

FUCK ME. 

And boy did Stella Burks ever pick the right night to get her groove back; 24-4-2, 5-8 from trey in 25 minutes.   

Finally, another double-double for Julius, 21-14-4 in 31 minutes, with Obi logging 17 for a +10 and doing things other than pad the box score.  Good to see Thibs scaling back ever so slightly on Randle's minutes.

And overall Thibs was very very calculating in divving up minutes and keeping everyone fresh in his 10 Man Rotation.

Randle, 31
Bullock, 20
Noel, 23
Rose, 28 [7-11, 2-2 from trey, 6 assists]
Barrett, 25
Toppin, 17
Gibson, 24
Ntilikina, 23
Burks, 25
Quickley, 20

Finally, well, more finally, as up and down as we have been, THIBS keeps us on a path towards winning. 

The Lottery?

Fuck the Lottery, that's for Dallas [15-16]

God forbid we beat the Pacers, a tough match up for us, on Saturday night.

We would be 17-17, in sole possession of the 4th seed in the East. 

In THIBS We TRUST 
Title: Postscripts
Post by: chipstern on February 26, 2021, 01:01:37 AM
What must Austin Rivers be thinking? 

Now, how does Thibs accomodate his man Elfrid when he is ready to play again?

Who sits?  Who starts?  Who is paired with WHOM? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 26, 2021, 01:09:37 AM
The only player out I’m in any kind of hurry to see back playing is Mitch.

This is close to what our roster looks like in its optimal lineup configuration.

Keep riding these guys.

Does Orlando need a pg? Would they take Payton or Rivers for Mo Bomba? Would we need to add a sweetener?
Title: Re: Postscripts
Post by: carlos123 on February 26, 2021, 01:12:33 AM
Quote from: chipstern on February 26, 2021, 01:01:37 AM
Now, how does Thibs accomodate his man Elfrid when he is ready to play again?

Who sits?  Who starts?  Who is paired with WHOM?

U asking Les?

I’m sure my doggie has some ideas about that.

Nice doggie! 🐶
Title: Yin Vs Yang
Post by: chipstern on February 26, 2021, 01:13:26 AM
Process over playoffs?

Playoffs over process?

Both?

Both is ideal. But is both realistic?

“Just think about what goes into winning every day and building the right habits,” Thibodeau said before the game.

“We’re getting there,” he’d say after, twice.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 26, 2021, 04:04:17 AM
I’m going to expand on the Orlando conversation.

We send three guys, they send three guys. Two guards get second stints with their new teams. A promising but underutilized kid from Harlem goes to New York while a player of similar description returns to his old stomping ground. Two vets valued more for their big game experience than their big number production also swap lockers.

Bomba, Aminu, and Chasson Randle for Payton, Rivers, and Knox if Payton agrees.

We’d have

Mitch Noel Bomba
Randle Obi Taj
Bullock Burks Aminu
RJ Frank Iggy
Rose Quickley Randle

That to me is a roster more Thibs friendly and more worthy of the second half of the schedule.

Orlando will be glad to see this more mature and aggressive Elf return, especially if it means less load on MCW and possibly Fultz insurance down the line as his Bird rights would convey. They’ll love Knox and plug him right in.

Win win win.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 26, 2021, 09:13:13 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 26, 2021, 04:04:17 AM

Bomba, Aminu, and Chasson Randle for Payton, Rivers, and Knox if Payton agrees.

I wouldn't trade Knox for Bomba.
I wouldn't trade Elf for Aminu
I wouldn't trade Rivers for Chasson.

So you can guess what I think of the package.
You must be a giant Mo Bomb fan.

ORL doesn't really need a PG.  MCW is filling in for now.  Cole Anthony has a dinged up rib will be back in a few weeks.  Fultz out for the year.  They could use the PG help until Cole returns, but they aren't going anywhere.  Elf or MCW?  Kind of similar fellers.

Aminu is barely back from missing a year of basketball.  Played only 24 games last year.  Only 6 games since Jan 1 2020.
Played 5 minutes first game back then had to sit out 3 games with knee soreness.  Returned for the Knix game on a minutes restriction.  Played 5 games in his return.  NKY would have to wait a few weeks to see if he is functional.  RegBull is better.

That leaves The Bomb.   
Knix have Mitch-Nawlins-Taj.  Randle-Obi.  Already we don't get enough of ObiT.
Mo Bombs as future project.  Is he better/more intriguing than Knox?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 26, 2021, 11:06:39 AM
I look at it the other way

I dont think Orlando is dealing Mo Bamba for fluff.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 26, 2021, 11:13:44 AM
On Bamba and Lakers, plus 40 players in a "would they deal them and for what?" list.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-trade-deadline-2021-from-bradley-beal-to-javale-mcgee-40-players-who-could-be-dealt-this-season/
Title: Re: Fairy Tales Can Come True, They Can Happen To You...
Post by: lesterluv on February 26, 2021, 11:46:54 AM
Quote from: chipstern on February 26, 2021, 12:58:38 AM

Not sharing the ball with each other, seemed to LIBERATE BOTH.

And seemed to, in turn, liberate both Barrett and Ntilikina.  Dig that. 


Yep, sure looked that way, at least against Sacramento

I also like the way Obi's transition from I don't have a clue defensive liability to, hey, he's kinda doing some good things on that end is progressing, bodes well for what happens with a less compressed season and more practice time

If we were targeting Magic bigs, which I don't think should be any kind of priority, I prefer some kind of buy-low on Jonathan Isaac to a move for Bamba, really liked watching him last few times I saw him play.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 26, 2021, 01:52:37 PM
I'm somewhat partial to Khem Birch as a burly backup C.
Magic are the SacKings of the East ...


Taj has been playing real well lately.
Game before, Rose and Taj had some nice connections.  They know each other's games.
Then Taj was setting good screens for Burks last game.
And Taj has played very solid D the last few games, with good boarding.
Taj in a groove.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 26, 2021, 02:21:16 PM
That fueled my thinking about Bamba (not Bomba, my bad). Birch and Vuc deserve to play and contribute to the Magic success. That doesn’t leave a lot of room for Mo. they can use a larger wing to develop w Anthony and Isaac with Better defensive tools than Fornier. Knox, who’s developing well behind a log jam, should appeal to coach Cliff.

We’d trim our log jam and get a highly talented big just finishing puberty.
Title: Facil
Post by: chipstern on February 26, 2021, 02:34:57 PM
Love you dude, but that trade seems utterly pointless. 

Let's sunder our chemistry to obtain Mo Bamba? 

So he can reproduce his role of sitting on the bench in Orlando to sitting on the bench in NY? 

Let alone the earthly remains of Aminu and, cough, CHASSON RANDLE? 

And for this we give up our starting PG, a serviceable vet and Kevin Knox? 

SERIOUSLY? 

Aminu?  A 31 year old career scrub coming off injuries with a 10 million player option for next season.  To sit behind Bullock and Burks. 

Randle?  A G Leaguer.

Bomba obviously intrigues you.  Hey, me too. 

If perchance, Noels were not to return for 2021-2022, then the OFFSEASON would be the time to ponder such a move, where he would have a summer to work with coaches and acclimate to the system.

But in the middle of a playoff run? 

Again, due 7.5 next season, and his option costs us 10 million the year after. 

For someone who would be our 4th stringer behind Mitchel, Nerlens and Taj. 

Come on, bro. 




Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 26, 2021, 02:44:38 PM
I'm somewhat partial to Khem Birch as a burly backup C.


Go, Running Rebels!

Go, Canada!

- I have little doubt Bamba gets Birch's minutes next year.
Title: Random Thoughts
Post by: chipstern on February 26, 2021, 04:01:39 PM
While Facil is contemplating a Mo Bomba siting, I indulge my own lost cause.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3x3NN26jxnw&feature=emb_logo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3x3NN26jxnw&feature=emb_logo)

Our own G League Lightning Bolt, JARED HARPER.  I see some Quickley in this second coming of Ty Lawson. 

Hit me with your best shot, Facil....Knicks fans. 

Okay. 

Frank looked very good. 

A Quickley-Ntilikina backcourt looked quite effective.

A Rose-Barrett backcourt showed some real promise. 

Does Thibs contemplate a modified 10 + 1 rotation. 

Begging Dawg's papal indulgence. 

Rose-Payton-Barrett-Randle-Noel

Maybe shuffle Bullock in for Elfrid and switch RJ from the 3 to the 2. 

Quickley-Ntilikina-Burks-Toppin-Gibson

The mixed blessing of injuries. 

Noels had tender knees, but he has been really solid as a starter.

Oh, and, how about Taj Gibson.  Omari Spellman and his predilection for Popeye's Chicken Sandwiches [a wild guess] did the Knicks a favor, and Mitchell's unfortuneate injury....Taj has been terrific since getting regular minutes.  He boards, plays D, sets good picks [mostly, he has been whistled for a number of moving picks, and the one he set last night for IQ was borderline], hits the odd jumper.  Looks to be in great shape and have something to contribute.  A vet who is always prepared and READY.  Loved his offensive board last night on Obi's back to the basket post move that rimmed out. 

Berman in the POST with his usual specious piffle.  Dismissed Obi as being a non-factor. 

Perhaps that's why Thibs gave him 17 minutes behind JR's 31.  Perhaps I was hallucinating, but he appeared to be playing D last night, ergo, MINUTES.  Got to figure that Knicks will work on his Swiss Army Knife athleticism over the summer, to see if he is capable of pulling minutes at the 3, the 4 and the 5. 

Why not? 

Boy, ya gotta love Haliburton. 

Odd rumor that his agent was fomenting disregard so he would drop to Sacaramento.  Not sure I buy that, but Atlanta, Detroit and NY, as well as Washington, Phoenix and San Antonio all passed on him.  God knows, sure looks like a Greg Popovich player. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 26, 2021, 07:59:17 PM
Hearing the chimes for Brad Stevens - or will it be AINGE first?

Indiana 18 Boston 4
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 26, 2021, 09:00:31 PM
OBI is pretty strong now.  If he adds 5 more pounds of offseason muscle each of the next three years he will be ready for the contract extension and a bigger role.

Quickley erases the pain of not drafting TyH.  There was zero chance we would draft both.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 26, 2021, 09:04:21 PM
Knox has impressed me in his limited minutes. 
A cynical take would be that any more minutes would reveal too many flaws. 
The optimist sees a budding pro who is ready to contribute when his number is called.

I don't want to trade him for the sake of trading him. 
Frank gave everyone a glimpse yesterday of his future role in the league.
Both those yute could benefit greatly from a change in team so be careful to get real value back if dealing them.
No marginal sideways moves.
Title: Frank vs. Fox
Post by: Kam on February 26, 2021, 09:13:27 PM
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-i0m5vXjnR9A/YDmqgXFC6II/AAAAAAAAFbg/767PKkexXl8oeg8D3F0BAsma3Qy7-8p1QCLcBGAsYHQ/w640-h360/ezgif.com-gif-maker.gif)
Title: Re: Random Thoughts
Post by: Kam on February 26, 2021, 09:25:35 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 26, 2021, 04:01:39 PM

Oh, and, how about Taj Gibson.  Omari Spellman and his predilection for Popeye's Chicken Sandwiches [a wild guess] did the Knicks a favor, and Mitchell's unfortuneate injury....Taj has been terrific since getting regular minutes.  He boards, plays D, sets good picks [mostly, he has been whistled for a number of moving picks, and the one he set last night for IQ was borderline], hits the odd jumper.  Looks to be in great shape and have something to contribute.  A vet who is always prepared and READY.  Loved his offensive board last night on Obi's back to the basket post move that rimmed out. 


Nothing like a Taj bomb ...

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-cV6u5zQVTiw/YDmtLURBaTI/AAAAAAAAFbo/FQ_D6QdKKBsP5DF0vtl6DukuFf3ppBaeACLcBGAsYHQ/w640-h360/ezgif.com-gif-maker%2B%25281%2529.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 26, 2021, 09:46:16 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 26, 2021, 09:04:21 PM
Knox has impressed me in his limited minutes. 
A cynical take would be that any more minutes would reveal too many flaws. 
The optimist sees a budding pro who is ready to contribute when his number is called.

I don't want to trade him for the sake of trading him. 
Frank gave everyone a glimpse yesterday of his future role in the league.
Both those yute could benefit greatly from a change in team so be careful to get real value back if dealing them.
No marginal sideways moves.

https://thunderousintentions.com/2021/02/17/okc-thunder-trades-kevin-knox/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 26, 2021, 09:50:34 PM
Trade #1

Kevin Knox for Ty Jerome and a second round pick in '23 via Miami and '24 via Charlotte

Trade #2

Kevin Knox
Frank Ntlikina
2023 second rounder
2025 second rounder

for

AL HORFORD
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 27, 2021, 12:42:57 AM
OKC needs all the help they can get, but for our sake let’s not do either of those.
Title: Clive Davis summed it up best
Post by: Kam on February 27, 2021, 12:52:38 AM
Clive Davis
18 February, 2021

You need to stop smoking whatever garbage it is, because it's fogging up your brain. If you and that groveling fanbase in OKC thinks that Leon Rose is that stupid enough to hand you a lottery pick for old man Harford and or bags of chips, then you need to check your butt into detox. Fast!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 27, 2021, 02:00:55 AM
Quote
If you and that groveling fanbase in OKC thinks that Leon Rose is that stupid enough to hand you a lottery pick for old man Harford

A solid playoff team that needed some vet leadership and interior D could go for Horford in exchange for a 3rd year player who has underperformed and is out of the rotation.
So the concept is sound.  It's just NYK is not at that stage and doesn't particularly need Horford. 

Knix did just very recently give up ex-lottery pick Dennis Smith Jr for aging vet Rose, but that was to shore up a position of need.   Also it wouldn't surprise anyone if we flipped Franc for say a vet wing.  We're probably not there yet with Knox, and a C is not the return we would seek.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 27, 2021, 02:30:47 AM
Nice game by DSJ. He was about as effective as Sadiq Bey in a start in what turned into a close loss to a Hali-less Kings team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 27, 2021, 11:09:32 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 27, 2021, 02:00:55 AM
Quote
If you and that groveling fanbase in OKC thinks that Leon Rose is that stupid enough to hand you a lottery pick for old man Harford

A solid playoff team that needed some vet leadership and interior D could go for Horford in exchange for a 3rd year player who has underperformed and is out of the rotation.
So the concept is sound.  It's just NYK is not at that stage and doesn't particularly need Horford. 

Knix did just very recently give up ex-lottery pick Dennis Smith Jr for aging vet Rose, but that was to shore up a position of need.   Also it wouldn't surprise anyone if we flipped Franc for say a vet wing.  We're probably not there yet with Knox, and a C is not the return we would seek.

I know developmentally it is not ideal - but Horford gets Toppin's minutes - and much of Taj's as well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 27, 2021, 11:10:10 AM
Program note:

Harden vs Luka tonight
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 27, 2021, 11:14:57 AM
TY JEROME had a nice game last night for OKC

Not sure if they have plans for him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 27, 2021, 11:27:48 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 27, 2021, 11:09:32 AM
I know developmentally it is not ideal - but Horford gets Toppin's minutes - and much of Taj's as well.

And then Noel's minutes when Mitch returns.
Seems pointless.

Knix need 3-point shooting/spacing in the starting lineup.
Starting Horford could make sense to open driving lanes for RJB, Elf, Randle.
But then you relegate Mitch to the bench, squeeze Toppings, lose Knox and reduce Taj's role.
Seems a lot of harm to yute for ol' Horford.
Does Horford really get you a deeper playoff run?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 27, 2021, 01:01:45 PM
5 projected first round picks in the 12 PM games today - just got home - gonna try to catch AUB-TEN and TX-TX TCH

Havent seen Knicks projected pick at 15, Greg Brown yet.
Faces off with Terrence Shannon

Brown is a 6-9 F
Shannon a 6-6 SG

Auburn's Allen Flanagan (6-6 SG/SF) and Shannon currently projected 11 and 14
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 27, 2021, 09:11:15 PM
Very exciting finish to the half. 

Knicks come all the way back from 16 down to take the lead on a last second three from Rose.

RJ also hitting his threes is a welcome sight.

Losing Taj will hurt but Pacers are also down several key pieces including Brogdon and Warren.

Will the Knicks finally see .500?
Title: Will the Knicks finally see .500?
Post by: carlos123 on February 27, 2021, 10:38:20 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 27, 2021, 09:11:15 PM
Very exciting finish to the half. 

Knicks come all the way back from 16 down to take the lead on a last second three from Rose.

RJ also hitting his threes is a welcome sight.

Losing Taj will hurt but Pacers are also down several key pieces including Brogdon and Warren.

Will the Knicks finally see .500?

YESSSSSSSSS!!!

NTILIKINAAAAAAA!!!
Title: Re: Will the Knicks finally see .500?
Post by: Kam on February 27, 2021, 11:16:15 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 27, 2021, 10:38:20 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 27, 2021, 09:11:15 PM
Very exciting finish to the half. 

Knicks come all the way back from 16 down to take the lead on a last second three from Rose.

RJ also hitting his threes is a welcome sight.

Losing Taj will hurt but Pacers are also down several key pieces including Brogdon and Warren.

Will the Knicks finally see .500?

YESSSSSSSSS!!!

NTILIKINAAAAAAA!!!

(https://external-preview.redd.it/yUkUrN-u1jWOzHVnIIt6ArK3d41LikRho-8c1I72Rsc.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=170ca6371dcc05f4ceeb59cd270a381e5d23e058)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 27, 2021, 11:20:12 PM
Frank calmly drags us into mediocrity, good for the middle of the playoff pack in this year’s East.

Detroit SA Detroit coming up.

Big nights by RJ & Julius.

When was the last time we got a double double from our starting PG? Every little bit helps.

This felt a lot like the Minnesota game except the Pacers are a far better team than the Wolves. Should we call that progress?

Our all star reserve beat the tar out of their all star replacement.

Lots of teachable shit on the film from this game, but at the same time a sort of confidence builder.

Stack wood against winter. The second half is coming.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 27, 2021, 11:25:15 PM
The Atlantic division is stacked.    All five teams are in the top 6 of the conference.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 27, 2021, 11:29:27 PM
Lest in all the Frank and RJ hubbub we forget our other young backcourt gem,

http://hoopshype.com/2021/02/26/new-york-knicks-immanuel-quickley-scouting-report/ (http://hoopshype.com/2021/02/26/new-york-knicks-immanuel-quickley-scouting-report/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 27, 2021, 11:30:43 PM
tied for fourth!


***that was one delicious meal
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 28, 2021, 12:59:54 AM
For about 5 minutes in the second half, Turner just ate RJ up for lunch. If RJ wasn't getting his shot blocked or intimidated, he was fumbling the ball every time he touched it. Just a stretch where he was bloody awful.

Thibs keeps him in.

Eventually he goes out. And when he returns...he's huge.

Basketball is a funny game.

Title: 5
Post by: carlos123 on February 28, 2021, 01:07:08 AM
What are we going to do with just 1 C tomorrow?

Can Randle and Noel play 40+ minutes on a back to back?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 28, 2021, 01:20:04 AM
The smart thing would be for Obi and Knox to see time at the C and PF spots respectively. It might not be pretty, but it gives us a way to manage minutes in the frontcourt.
Title: Bo, He Know
Post by: chipstern on February 28, 2021, 06:20:11 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 27, 2021, 11:27:48 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 27, 2021, 11:09:32 AM
I know developmentally it is not ideal - but Horford gets Toppin's minutes - and much of Taj's as well.

And then Noel's minutes when Mitch returns.
Seems pointless.

Knix need 3-point shooting/spacing in the starting lineup.
Starting Horford could make sense to open driving lanes for RJB, Elf, Randle.
But then you relegate Mitch to the bench, squeeze Toppings, lose Knox and reduce Taj's role.
Seems a lot of harm to yute for ol' Horford.
Does Horford really get you a deeper playoff run?

Bo, for all of your rational arguments, you overlooked the one most germane to a discussion of our Knicks going forward. 

And which cements the MORON stature of this pointless, mindless proposal. 

$27,500,000   $27,000,000   $26,500,000

PS: I have always loved Al Horford, but not THAT much.  Philly could not dump his contract fast enough.  He will be 35 come this summer, with two more GUARANTEED Money better spent on Julius and Mitch.  I know some posters disdain Frank and Kevin, but seriously, these is no need to send them into fucking exile in some lame fire sale for overpriced vets or someone else's sloppy second, for fuck's sake. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 28, 2021, 06:27:38 AM
I love Al Horford, but Philly could not get rid of his contract any faster. 

Will be 35 this summer. 

What then is the rational to spend money better allocated to Julius and Mitch.

Also, the whole off with their heads notion of declaring Kevin and Frank busts, and exchanging them for some other team's sloppy seconds?

PASS. 
Title: NEXT MAN UP
Post by: chipstern on February 28, 2021, 06:50:41 AM
Thibs Ain't Joking

Frank came off the pine with a much more revved up engine than many of us recall, making plays on both sides of the ball, good reads, pushing the tempo when he has the ball. 

Kevin hasn't seen much daylight, but the other night, one shot, a corner trey, bingo. 

When THIBS talks about how proud he is of players who practice hard and smart, put in extra work, remain ready when the call goes out...that ain't some empty play the right way platitudes. 

Hell, even two way contract scrub Theo Pinson, apparentely a Leon Rose fave, pulling his weight as the David Wingate-Austin Carr rah rah practice player bench general. 

We have a long way to go, but EVERYONE IS PULLING THEIR WEIGHT. 

I am proud of these Knicks. 

Oh, Indiana was misstig Leaf and Brogdon (and LaVert, for crying out loud, there is a stud in waiting).

Be still my heart. 

We were missing our starting PG, our starting center and our backup center. 

PS: Julius is making a case for a max extension or a reasonable approximation thereof.  I love Sabonis, great player, who has lit us up repeatedly, but Julius really battled him and kept him from going off.  15-7-9 in 36 minutes.  Julius 28-10-6-4 in 42 minutes.

PPS: TJ McConnell is a certified Knick Killer since his days with Philly.  Damn.  17-6-12-2 in 46 minutes.  Stepping up in Brogdon's absence. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 28, 2021, 01:46:28 PM
Sloppy endgame, but Knix persevered.
RJB with some big shots, after some rough going earlier.

Not sure why MyTurn was jacking 8 3's.  Or why McCon tried none.
I would have had MyTurn posting up inside (Noel had 3 fouls early and Taj was done).
And Sabonis on the perimeter.  Randle can guard the post, but not so comfortable guarding outside.  Just seemed every Turner 3 was a gift to the Knix. 

MyTurn was strong on D, but I had him as the goat with all the missed 3's and the late bad pass turnover.  I like that Sabonis is tough and emotional.  I remember seeing flashes of that his rook year.  He doesn't back down.

The Randle-Sabonis and Rose-McConman matchups were a lot of fun.
Credit to Noel for playing a ton of minutes, not picking up his 4th foul until very late, the good steal and canning his key FT's. 

I didn't get some of INDy's rotations.  McDoug had 20 points with 7 mins left in the 3Q.  And finished with 20 points.  Wasn't in there for the 4Q.  Just 22 mins.  Lamb was their other guy who made 3's and he only got 12 mins.  You want either of them (or McCon) shooting 3's not Turner.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 28, 2021, 03:32:07 PM
Horford's third year has a partial guarantee of 12 mil

Knicks may be able to convert that into a 2-20 deal. saving on the front end but extending Al to age 37

Still a very good player.  His passing alone makes us so much more dangerous.  Comparing this year and next Horford to Toppin is comical.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 28, 2021, 03:34:16 PM
Using 21 mil of next year's cap space in that deal to get AH.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 28, 2021, 03:52:32 PM
More on the Philadelphia Horford deal - valuable trade exception of 8.2 mil generated

https://www.libertyballers.com/2020/12/11/22168236/potential-targets-with-the-sixers-trade-exception-philadelphia-76ers-al-horford-daryl-morey

List of Sixers transactions:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHI/2021_transactions.html
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 28, 2021, 09:01:51 PM
Dennis Smith Jr looking for his 4th consecutive double digit game score (analytically speaking)

Last year he had 4 the entire season

For reference, his rookie season DSJ was double digits in 34 games of his 69 played, leading to his 12.8 PER (PER right now including 28 minutes with the Knickerbockers, is 13.1)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 28, 2021, 09:11:42 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 28, 2021, 03:34:16 PM
Using 21 mil of next year's cap space in that deal to get AH.

Why not use that $21M on a shooter a decade or more younger and still have Knox & Franc in your back pocket?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 28, 2021, 09:38:49 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 28, 2021, 09:11:42 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 28, 2021, 03:34:16 PM
Using 21 mil of next year's cap space in that deal to get AH.

Why not use that $21M on a shooter a decade or more younger and still have Knox & Franc in your back pocket?

Because we are trying to get better

I am not satisfied yet, are you?

Contracts, even Horford's, are always useful.  But I think he'd fit in well with us and stay at least through all of next season.

Better options with the same thought process?  Sure - bring them on.  To just SIT TIGHT would not have gotten us D Rose.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 28, 2021, 09:40:12 PM
Anyone else had enough of Quickley's "floater"?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 28, 2021, 09:44:14 PM
Ah, so the choices are sit tight or Horford.  Got it.

Rose for Smith Jr was a no brainer.
Don't think anyone was against that.

I propose deals all the time.
Just wouldn't want to be stuck with Horford's ugly contract.  Not even sure he's a good fit even if he was an expiring deal or reasonable contract.
I'd rather do something smart ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 28, 2021, 09:48:03 PM
I went with the BOS-WAS tilt instead of the Knick game.
Tatum made a heap of winning plays late.
Beal dropped 46, but made a couple mistakes late.
Good game that Wiz shoulda won.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 28, 2021, 10:13:46 PM
Ah, so the choices are sit tight or Horford.  Got it.


I said exactly the opposite
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on February 28, 2021, 10:18:28 PM
I can get used to this... relaxing 4Qs whooda thunk it...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 28, 2021, 10:31:47 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 28, 2021, 09:01:51 PM
Dennis Smith Jr looking for his 4th consecutive double digit game score (analytically speaking)

Last year he had 4 the entire season

For reference, his rookie season DSJ was double digits in 34 games of his 69 played, leading to his 12.8 PER (PER right now including 28 minutes with the Knickerbockers, is 13.1)

Didn’t get it tonight. We were tired & short handed so we let him get seven on eleven shots. No TOs though. He’s heading to bargain basement early Marcus Smart territory, which is not a bad place for him to be in his career considering. Casey can definitely help him.

Bey warmed up eventually. Fortunately so did Quickley. Rose has unlocked RJ. He’s the Alfred to RJ and Julius, our Batman and Robin.

I hope Mitch is taking serious notes on Noel’s play as he does his rehab.

Alec the stumbling bucket Burks coordinated himself through a key stretch and a late moment to keep us gliding on the rails.

This game was nice for our team stats and leaves us sitting nicely in 4th.

Can’t get too high or too low. Gotta keep on grinding.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 28, 2021, 10:54:14 PM
Mike Breen tonight:

"When you add talent to a roster you make everybody better"
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 28, 2021, 11:04:52 PM
After about every game, I just have the urge to say:

Fucking Noel!

His defense is awesome.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 28, 2021, 11:08:25 PM
Knicks taking a run at top seed!

Cash in Frank and Kevin!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 01, 2021, 12:19:12 AM
Came across this on Twitter which, if true, is a pretty instructive stat:

The Knicks are 18-0 this season when RJ Barrett has a positive plus/minus.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 01, 2021, 12:26:47 AM
Yep. It's true.
Title: No Wire Hangers
Post by: chipstern on March 01, 2021, 12:30:55 AM
The Rose Trade Was A No Brainer.

Proposed Trades For Horford Or Drummond Are No Sensers. 

Drummond?  Maybe [maybe] something to explore this summer if the price is right and Nerlens Noels doesn't come back.  Knick on wood. 

Horford? 

Lovely player.  Going to be 35.  Two more very pricey years after this one to pull the plug on Mitchell and/or Nerlens?  No fucking thanks. 

Meanwhile....defense...Defense...DEFENSE.  Ball movement.  Coherence.  Hitting open threes in rhythm. 

THIBS 

How many games have we gotten off to a sluggish start...offense out of sync....blown coverages and EZ pass lanes on defense. 

One minute in...two minutes in. 

TIME FUCKING OUT

Adjustments, and like tonight, by the end of the second quarter we are starting to pull away. 

None of our traditional third quarter brain farts. 

ADDENDUM

Seeing Derrick Rose on the court gives me a feeling of calm and confidence I have not known since Jason Kidd.

There is a serenity and sense of purpose and leadership to Derrick's game that also puts me in mind of...now don't laugh....Earl Monroe, Larry Johnson...when the Celtics got Bill Walton, the Lakers Ron Harper. 

Players who are not the dominating super heroes of their youth....age...injuries, diminuition of certain aspects of their game--but who have enough left, enough wisdom, enough experience, enough HEART, to make a contribution, as a role player or a significant chess piece. 

Okay...

There was a play tonight that got me to thinking about Red Holzman's Knicks, just smart, sharing, AWARE Hoops. 

Julius was backing his way in frp, the corner and could have engineered a shot for himself.  Instead, he read the floor, drew the double team and made a smart decisive unselfish play. 

A sharp pass to Rose at the top of the key, and Derrick took it like a pinball bouncing off a bumper, an instantaneous TOUCH PASS, the ball not even being caught so much as redirected, like BANG, into Noels deep in the box...FLUSH. 

Just watched it on replay, and it makes my skin tingle. 
Title: RJ > Character > Growth
Post by: chipstern on March 01, 2021, 12:34:59 AM
Quote from: elephant on March 01, 2021, 12:19:12 AM
Came across this on Twitter which, if true, is a pretty instructive stat:

The Knicks are 18-0 this season when RJ Barrett has a positive plus/minus.

Yes, that came up on Alan Hahn's FACEBOOK Chat. 

An astonishing stat. 

Or as Thibs put it of our ever maturing, up and down like a yo-yo, but when he is on 20 year old.

"I don't worry about R.J." 

FOOTNOTE

FG% up from .402 to .430

3PT% up from .320 to .339

FT% up from .614 to .723, from 156-254 in 56 games to, so far, 94-130 in 34 games. 

Rebounds?  Up.  Assists?  Up.  Turnovers?  Down. 

R.J won't be 21 until June. 

PS: Last two games, seen some incremental improvement in High IQ's floater and midrage jumper.  Still forcing too many, bricking too many often not in control.  This too, will come with time, reps and as the game slows down. 

PPS: HOWfuckingEVER, he is shooting .382% from trey [52-136] and his free throw shooting, and his uncommon abillity to draw fouls and to entice the Refs to give him the benefit of the doubt on calls, is UnGODLY.  ROOKIES NEVER GET THE CALLS HE GETS.  IQ seemingly gets calls on made or missed 3 pointers every game, in a manner James Harden, he of the okey dokey, would deem dapp.  And IQ is 91-97 from the FT line, which is a .938 clip, WHICH IS Steph Curry, Steve Nash Mark Price FT shooting. 

PPPS: Julius Randle makes me so proud.  Wally Z was noting how JR often defers to his team mates in the first and second quarter, not so much looking for his shot, as to get them in rhythm, get them touches, build their confidence, then down the home stretch he scores because he knows he can and knows he MUST.  Tonight, ho hum, another day at the office for OUR CAPTAIN: 28-8-6-2-1.  And 3-6 from trey.  Last season, over 64 games, he was 64-231 [.277%]  This season, over 34 games he is 64-154 [.416%].  I mean WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK?  Someone attributed an interesting quote about Julius tonight from his old team mate, Kobe Bryant: "He's Lamar Odom in Zach Randolph's body."  Things that make you go WHAT THE ACTULA FUCK? 

PPPPS: We have now gone from a fantasy trade every other day involving Julius, to projections of a Max Contract if he can get us into the second round of the playoffs. 


PPPPPS: To Dream The IMPOSSIBLE DREAM. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 01, 2021, 03:03:15 AM
Quickley has the most free throw hits in his first hundred (ninety four) of any player in the last 20 years, as far back as they could easily run those stats.

This game was awesome to see simply because of how much and how clearly you could hear Thibs coaching. The man earned his check tonight.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 01, 2021, 06:06:28 AM
Since RJB plays 48 mins a night, it has to be true.
Kidding, and his minutes dipped for a while.

Interesting how Randle has stopped dominating the 1Q recently and has been looking to get teammates involved more in the 1st half.
___________________________________________________________
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 01, 2021, 06:10:02 AM
We have a starting C and PF.
C remains the easiest position to add a solid backup.
Noel is making $5M, just a little more than Clyde.
We're only paying Noah $6.4M this year (ha!)

Thomas Bryant $8.3M
Theis $5M (should see a nice raise)
Cauley_Stein $4.1M
Biyombo $3.5M
Khem Birch $3M
Mo Wagner $2.1M
ALex Len $1.7M

It's just not where you blow your cap space.
Pick up a Noel or someone like the above around $5M and add a $22M shooter.
We've been cycling through journeymen wings since at least Phil (Afflalo, Courtney Lee, Jarrett Jack, Zonja, Ellington, Bullox, Burks, Rivers).  I'm fine with such players as backups, but to up the team another level, we need a legit starting wing, someone who can knock down shots and defend.  Bullocks has done a solid job, but he's really a backup.  Knox was supposed ot be that guy.

We did have a brief interlude where we tried to develop yute - Dot and Trier.
I don't have any problem with any of those guys we tried (though Zonja is and always has been a classic mistake player).   But none of them has stuck as a viable starter.  And we lose continuity with the frequent reshuffle. 

If Knix want to contend, upgrading a starting wing next to RJB is key.  Bullox would then bolster the bench.  That's where our $27M should go, not to an aging C. 
Who? 
Oladipo is out there.  Er, how healthy is he?   Can he get his mojo back?  He's actually another driver.  But at his peak he's an all-around threat. 
Trent Jr. is intriguing.  And likely a luxury for POR.  Devonte Graham?
Porter Jrs. -- Otto or Michael?  Ol' Eric Gordon? 
Others: Osman,  Uber, Wiggins

Others who might be more serviceable starters/backups:
Caruso?  Connaughton?  T Ross?  Jer Lamb?  Thybulle?
Whatever happened to Patrick McCaw?  Went to TOR and met the ghost of Landry Fields?

I did that quickly -- would need to see a list of Wing FA's.
Minny did fairly well picking up Malik Beasley -- which i thought was an overpay at the time.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 01, 2021, 06:18:34 AM
Saw a short vid clip on ESPn with Fizz talking about CV vaccinations now.  He said that as Knick coach he sat down with Knick team physician Dr. Lisa Callahan and learned about the flu vaccine.  Then along with Dr. C, he talked to the players about the science and their concerns.  It sounded like most of the Knicks got the flu vaccine with some holdouts which were freely allowed. 

Interesting, as hoops season is during flu season.  And once one player gets the flu but comes to work, it's easy to spread through a team/lockerroom.  I hadn't considered it before, but a team getting flu shots could be a competitive advantage, with the potential to change the outcome of a few games.  Though you can imagine a lot of healthy young athletes not being the most receptive audience.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 01, 2021, 12:25:18 PM
Thomas Bryant $8.3M
Theis $5M (should see a nice raise)
Cauley_Stein $4.1M
Biyombo $3.5M
Khem Birch $3M
Mo Wagner $2.1M
ALex Len $1.7M

No idea how many bigs we will need to add next year
But I would be interested in Theis - and Bryant of course if he proved healthy.

Birch I never liked much but Bo is right - his numbers are solid this year.  Not sure if he knows RJ fron their Canada experience
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 01, 2021, 12:28:17 PM
MY bad - I reread it.  I guess you mean for this year.

Interesting about Celts - making the playoffs is not really their aim.  If they do not feel they can win the conference, are they sellers?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 01, 2021, 01:15:46 PM
There’s no one out there in the coming FA season who isn’t top priority for their current team that would clearly move the needle for us except maybe Drummond.

We’re probably better off re-upping our current guys except Iggy, Payton, and Rivers. We need those spots for our draft picks next year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 01, 2021, 01:34:23 PM
I was real intrigued by Khem Birch last year.
But this year his hands seemed a bit suspect in the few games I saw parts of.
Still a good screen setter, boarder, post defender.

I just meant in general there is a glut of backup C's and such folks, such as Noel, can be picked up on the cheap and contribute fairly well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 01, 2021, 01:51:54 PM
A backup (or starting) center who can move the way Thibs’ centers move on this team is more rare.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 01, 2021, 02:00:58 PM
I just meant in general there is a glut of backup C's and such folks, such as Noel, can be picked up on the cheap and contribute fairly well.

Yet this is not the point

I know the cap isnt involved in baseball but who would say Mets arent better with Lindor over Rosario?

Like I said - make a case for that 21 mil being better used - for Horford upgrades us quite well over 1.5 seasons and maybe beyond.

(I am not even sure OKC would be interested in that deal.  They are said to be in no rush to deal AH)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 01, 2021, 02:12:24 PM
THUNDER for next year:

Shai Gilgeous (combo G)
Ty Jerome (PG
Pokusevski (stretch big)
Bazley (combo forward)
Maledon (PG)
Horford (big)

G Hill (G - 10 mil option)

Dort, Roby, K Williams - small deals that are options

Picks -

OKC's 2021 1st, 2nd
Hou 2021 1st (protected 1-4)
Minnesota 2021 2nd

One extra first rounder in '22 and one in '23, with some protections.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 01, 2021, 02:20:26 PM
Don't waste your cap space on a C.  Especially an old C who would likely be a backup.
That's the point.
Use up to $27M on a starting Wing or PG.
Not hard to understand.

It's so hard to get the type of mobile defensive C's we have that we got one in the 2nd round, another for $5M in FA, and a 3rd off the scrap heap.  A combined $10M salary for Mitch, Noel and Taj.

Winslow another name to add to my wing list.
Seems like a Thibs type.  Could be our Marcus Smart.
Team opt for $13M next year though.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 01, 2021, 07:11:53 PM
MLE is 9.5 next year, if that helps gauge the size of the checks you want to throw at people.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 01, 2021, 09:57:21 PM
Why aren’t the Magic playing Cole Anthony?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 01, 2021, 09:59:22 PM
http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/261680/Festus-Ezeli-Joining-Westchester-Knicks-In-G-League-Bubble (http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/261680/Festus-Ezeli-Joining-Westchester-Knicks-In-G-League-Bubble)

Also, Hawks upgrade at coach. It’s Nate’s team now.
Title: Nyets
Post by: carlos123 on March 01, 2021, 10:56:03 PM
Just lost a 10 pt. lead with a couple of minutes to go.
Rooting for a second OT, to get the Spurs really tired for tomorrow.
Too bad it ain’t gonna happen. Nyets now up 11 with less than a minute to go.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 01, 2021, 11:51:04 PM
Cole Ant has had a cracked rib.
Was first diagnosed as a shoulder injury.
Expected back after AS break I think.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 02, 2021, 12:07:16 AM
Hawks dump their coach.
Kind of harsh as they have had a ton of injuries.
Started the season 10-9, and kind of collapsed when DeA Hunter went down (meniscus surgery).

Can't blame the coach for injuries.
Bodgdanovich barely saw the court.  Dunn hasn't.  Gallo missed a bunch of games and hasn't been right.  Hunter out now for a while.

I really like Nate McM who takes over.  But I guarantee N8 will be a better coach when he gets players back and healthy.

The flipside of that is PHX, where their vet additions, CP3 and Crowder, have led the talented pups forward, and they've avoided injuries.  Not that ATL added anyone of Paul's stature.

Dunn and Bogdan were supposed to ease the burden on Trae to do it all.  That never happened.  With Hunter out, the erratic CamRed has been allowed to do his crazy thing.  Should help his long term development, but not not for short term winning.

Quote
the Hawks' 11th loss after holding a fourth-quarter lead.

Does this mean that the Hawks have underachieved by blowing 4Q's or overachieved by playing well through 3Q's? 
Add in all the missing personnel such as Hunter, Bogdan, Dunn and likely at least split those games and be above .500.

Lotta new players and hard to forge an identity with so many Missing in Action.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 02, 2021, 01:16:50 AM
Hawks have enough guys playing

Sometimes the connection isn't there between coach and roster
Title: Your Portand Kincks
Post by: carlos123 on March 02, 2021, 01:32:29 AM
Melo with 29 points, 5 steals and 2 blocks.
Enes with 11 rebounds, just another day at the office.
They were the 2 best players for Portland, what else is new?

Hornets lost to the Portland Knicks, but LaMelo is the real deal, 30 points and 8 assists.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 02, 2021, 05:35:28 AM
That STIFF James Harden becomes just the 4th NBA players to record a statline of 30 points 15 assists and zero turnovers.  Roll, BK, roll.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 02, 2021, 05:37:29 AM
Saw a weird sight last night at Ok State

Cade Cunningham (freshman) seemed to be having his number retired

Very strange.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 02, 2021, 05:56:35 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on March 02, 2021, 05:35:28 AM
That STIFF James Harden becomes just the 4th NBA players to record a statline of 30 points 15 assists and zero turnovers.  Roll, BK, roll.

Congratulations on your consistency. You some how always find a way to be a weak heel’s lickspittle. It’s usually very boring but occasionally it can amaze. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 02, 2021, 09:59:15 AM
https://hoopshype.com/2021/02/28/nba-trade-rumors-karl-anthony-towns-knicks-timberwolves/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 02, 2021, 10:46:35 AM
Empty calories there.

But if things continue so choppy, KAT will want out after a while.
But would folks give up say Mitch, RJB, Toppings?
It'd take something like that to get Mini interested. 
Though some picks could be involved. 
Could Thibs make a KAT-Randle defense hold up?

The other option would be a Randle+ trade.

KAT seems like a good guy and has had some tough times.  But is he any kind of leader?  Can he play adequate defense?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 02, 2021, 02:36:43 PM
We have a good thing going with the players we have at PF and C not to mention depth.

We could blow up chemistry and depth just to see if the Randle KAT pairing works or we could save our powder for a backcourt or wing upgrade.

I prefer to wait for the free agent upgrade in the backcourt.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on March 02, 2021, 02:44:01 PM
I'm delighted that there doesn't seem to be any "let's sign DeMarcus Cousins" sentiment expressed.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 02, 2021, 03:01:49 PM
Trae Young, coach killer.
Title: Trade Nonsense
Post by: chipstern on March 02, 2021, 06:11:02 PM
Thibs has developed terrific chemistry, so let's explore the search for the shiny object.  Someone shoot me.

If we had followed this MORONIC path, we'd have already traded Julius for a sack of shit. 

Thankfully Leon Rose has remained calm, remained prudent, remained patient. 

OKAY?  Why trade half our team for Victor O. when RJ is peaking, and we could explore reaching out to him as a FA next summer?

PS...No...MAKE THAT...P-FUCKING-S:  Build through the draft, player development and patience.  PATIENCE.  I respect Danny Ainge, but the Celtics are suffering from making a move or two too many, too ambitious, at too high a price.  I am all for targetting world class talent, should some present itself.  Having said that, WAIT FOR THE FUCKING SUMMER, when we have had a chance to show some character in possibly making the playoffs, and perhaps even getting out of the first or second round? 

PPS: Having said all that, trading now for Victor?  Who I like.  Giving away our entire team and all of our draft assets for KAT.  Who I like.  You know who has an opt out in his contract this summer?  Admittedly a long, Long LONG SHOT. 

KAWHI LEONARD

Whom I LOVE

Patience
Title: LONG SHOT
Post by: chipstern on March 02, 2021, 06:30:16 PM
Quote from: chipstern on March 02, 2021, 06:11:02 PM
Thibs has developed terrifiv chemistry, so let's explore the search for the shiny object.  Someone shoot me.

If we had followed this MORONIC path, we'd have already traded Julius for a sack of shit. 

Thankfully Leon Rose has remained calm, remained prudent, remained patient. 

OKAY?  Why trade half our team for Victor O. when RJ is peaking, and we could explore reaching out to him as a FA next summer?

PS...No...MAKE THAT...P-FUCKING-S:  Build through the draft, player development and patience.  PATIENCE.  I respect Danny Ainge, but the Celtics are suffering from making a move or two too many, too ambitious, at too high a price.  I am all for targetting world class talent, should some present itself.  Having said that, WAIT FOR THE FUCKING SUMMER, when we have had a chance to show some character in possibly making the playoffs, and perhaps even getting out of the first or second round? 

PPS: Having said all that, trading now for Victor?  Who I like.  Giving away our entire team and all of our draft assets for KAT.  Who I like.  You know who has an opt out in his contract this summer?  Admittedly a long, Long LONG SHOT. 

KAWHI LEONARD

Whom I LOVE

Patience

Think that might satisfy BoD's search for a certifiable 3&D holy grail?

Having rolled that long shot set of dice?

Two mid-first round picks + Detroit's second rounder + not squandering our youthful assets = the possibility of moving up in the first round to get a shot at someone more elite. 

Or not.  We picked IQ with the #25 pick, so there is something to be said for standing pat and trusting your scouting.   

Title: Derrick Out
Post by: chipstern on March 02, 2021, 08:11:12 PM
Safety Protocols

Next Man Up?

FRANK

Plus IQ. 

Might there be an Austin Rivers siting? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 02, 2021, 09:07:21 PM
Thibs has developed terrific chemistry, so let's explore the search for the shiny object.  Someone shoot me.

If we had followed this MORONIC path, we'd have already traded Julius for a sack of shit.

Thankfully Leon Rose has remained calm, remained prudent, remained patient.

OKAY?  Why trade half our team for Victor O. when RJ is peaking, and we could explore reaching out to him as a FA next summer?

Chip's first day out of Kid's dog house - just too boring in here otherwise

I have never really said word one about dealing Randle - was on an island last year in praising his game/potential - and RJ deal has been an afterthought - only considered for a star we could keep long term.

Overheard on FAN last night - "Barrett could be an All Star"

I just dont see it.  He has less than average counter moves and vision when driving
Doesnt block or even affect shots.  And
all but medium level 2s and 3sre beyond his defensive top level (good team defender?  I will give you that)


RJ's character is indeed reason enough to keep him off trade sheets, ideally.  No, I do not think he would be in a Towns deal, though almost surely Robinson would.

VERY NICE PLAYER at peak.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 02, 2021, 09:13:51 PM
METS are better with Lindor and Carasco, Millar and Almora than with Rosario and Jimenez, Matz and Marisnick - who were (all 4) excellent chraracter guys who oft times produced just fine.

Get that GOOOOOOOOd chicken for the salad.  Not just back and wing meat.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 02, 2021, 09:17:34 PM
Two mid-first round picks + Detroit's second rounder + not squandering our youthful assets = the possibility of moving up in the first round to get a shot at someone more elite.


I highly doubt anyone deals out of any of the top 8 picks this year
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 02, 2021, 09:37:50 PM
Frank left Mills wide open on that shot to end the half but it was the fault of playing zone there.  Shitty defensive coaching.  Who was Noel guarding?
Title: Re: Next 10 Games - Record Prediction
Post by: Kam on March 02, 2021, 10:08:57 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 12, 2021, 05:03:03 AM
Quote from: Kam on February 11, 2021, 01:10:59 AM
@ WAS
HOU
ATL
@ ORL
SAS
MIN
GSW
SAC
IND
DET

I rosily predict 7-3 over the next ten "easy" stretch of games.   

I'll take 6-4.  Any less and it's a bad sign for playoff hopes.

Anyone else got any predictions?

no takers on prediction?

7-2 over that stretch.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 02, 2021, 10:50:56 PM
We’re at .500 again, scoring a half point more than our opponents at the half way mark.

And the Pistons are gonna be pissed.

Very interesting game coming up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 02, 2021, 10:51:42 PM
I like Trey Lyles and KBD.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 02, 2021, 10:59:25 PM
Very ugly effort tonight against a team that played last night.  The Spurs are good.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 02, 2021, 11:39:24 PM
Did you see the blitz trap they did on Quickley when things were still in the balance?

Pop is most dangerous when he’s denyed his regular lineup. His Spurs seem to always respond.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 03, 2021, 12:01:29 AM
I only saw the 2nd half!

At least if Rose is in quarantine, there's only one more game and then 8 days off.
So he won't miss much.

I never cared much for Lyles, but he had a very solid game.
Looks like he could shed 10 pounds.
Luka Semanic looked interesting.  The Zagreb Express.
Just turned 21, has been playing pro in Euroland for years.
His father had a 19 year pro career.  Luka won some Euro slam dunk contests.

This was only Semanic's 7th NBA game and the 4th in which he saw more than spot minutes.  Dropped 14 on the Knix, had only 19 NBA career points prior.
Edit: he actually played 3 games last year scoring all 16 points that year in one game v. Utah.  So surprisingly this wasn't a career high for him.

Anyway, with Elf & Rose out Thibs started Franc over Quicks.  Thoughts?
Franc shot well, but had 0 assists.
I don't hear any calls for Alec Burks to start anymore ...

Oh well, Knix allowed a bad game.  Should be fired up for DET.
Randle can use the rest; hopefully he plays just 10 mins or so in the AS game.
Nawlins can use a break too after playing so many minutes.
Title: San Antonio
Post by: chipstern on March 03, 2021, 09:34:04 AM
A friend of mine thought the Spurs were a gimme. 

I was not so sanguine, Pops being Thibs' doppleganger. 

We couldn't make a three or defend a three. 

Spurs offensive coherence was a thing of beauty. 

Frank showed some genuine growth as a scorer, and while IQ was efficient from trey [6-13] he was 2-8 on floaters and drives, and slightly out of control.  IQ with 4 assists, Frank was nada.  IQ at this point in his evolution is still more adept at creating for himself, no mean feat. 

But by no stretch of the imagination are Frank or IQ on par with Elfrid or Derrick vis a vis facilitating.   

Oh, yes, the Knicks passing was incredibly sloppy and inefficient.  We had 16 turnovers and 18 assists.  The Spurs had 8 turnovers and 31 assists.  There's the game. 

My love for Frank notwithstanding, while he had only 1 TO in 25 minutes, it was one of those lazy telegraphed passes into the paint that just made me wince.  Nothing decisive about his pass, nor stealthy about his intentions. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on March 03, 2021, 12:17:58 PM
Bring back the Braz. Knix are so thin up front. Moses Brown and/or Paul Reed, any shot at a trade?
Title: Re: San Antonio
Post by: chipstern on March 03, 2021, 12:19:26 PM
Quote from: chipstern on March 03, 2021, 09:34:04 AM
A friend of mine thought the Spurs were a gimme. 

I was not so sanguine, Pops being Thibs' doppleganger. 

We couldn't make a three or defend a three. 

Spurs offensive coherence was a thing of beauty. 

Frank showed some genuine growth as a scorer, and while IQ was efficient from trey [6-13] he was 2-8 on floaters and drives, and slightly out of control.  IQ with 4 assists, Frank was nada.  IQ at this point in his evolution is still more adept at creating for himself, no mean feat. 

But by no stretch of the imagination are Frank or IQ on par with Elfrid or Derrick vis a vis facilitating.   

Oh, yes, the Knicks passing was incredibly sloppy and inefficient.  We had 16 turnovers and 18 assists.  The Spurs had 8 turnovers and 31 assists.  There's the game. 

My love for Frank notwithstanding, while he had only 1 TO in 25 minutes, it was one of those lazy telegraphed passes into the paint that just made me wince.  Nothing decisive about his pass, nor stealthy about his intentions.

Just to clarify. 

Loves me some IQ...six of thirteen from trey against the Spurs D is damn impressive.  As for the forays into the paint, they pretty much stifled the entire team on action in and around the basket. 

PS: JAKOB POELTL: A solid 8-8-3-1-2

PPS: We point that out because the Spurs got him with DeRozan in the Kawhi exchange.  And where did the Raptors get Poeltl?  Why from a #1 pick Masai Ujiri, he of the Melo Heist, fleeced from the Knicks in the Bargnani trade. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 03, 2021, 01:29:53 PM
Noel seemed far less impactful last game. Probably a good bet that the recent (huge) increase in minutes took a toll.

I'd love to see the last 40 seconds of the second half again. My memory is that the Knicks got the ball with some 35 seconds and Randle leisurely brought it up — not the slightest thought for a 2-for-1. Later, a bad shot and miss. Then the 3-point debacle at the end of the half with less than a second on the clock.

Not a particularly good game for Julius either.

Eh, it happens.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 03, 2021, 01:55:08 PM
Noel can’t really hold a spot offensively and he has a rough time catching the ball. Those are the two main areas where Mitch and Taj outshine him.

I like that we were trying to get him going early both halves, but as some commentator commented, if your driving and he’s the roll man you are better off putting a tough shot on the rim which might fall, or he might put back, or you board on the chase, rather than trying to thread him a tough pass.

Frank, as some predicted, is developing as a shooting guard and wing more than a PG. Guys who defend like that and hit half of their 3’s have a definite place in our rotation.

Rose got a negative test and is back with the team. He should be good for Detroit.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 03, 2021, 03:08:20 PM
Quote from: elephant on March 03, 2021, 01:29:53 PM
I'd love to see the last 40 seconds of the second half again. My memory is that the Knicks got the ball with some 35 seconds and Randle leisurely brought it up — not the slightest thought for a 2-for-1. Later, a bad shot and miss. Then the 3-point debacle at the end of the half with less than a second on the clock.

Here ya go:
https://nbafullhd.com/23810-2/
Just scroll to the 18:00 mark

You can also watch the MSG feed here:
https://nbafullhd.com/new-york-knicks-vs-san-antonio-spurs-2-mar-2021-replays-fulltedgame/
Part 2 = 2Q.  But they cut off this video just as Randle's shot hits the side of the backboard with 11 secs left.
And then the last 2 SA possessions are on Part 3.

No idea why Randle was bringing the ball upcourt the last two possessions, except that Franc had just been reinserted  as "PG".
But both of Knick last two possessions of the half SA wisely attack Randle's dribble just across midcourt to slow the NYK offense..
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 03, 2021, 04:49:59 PM
Quote from: luee on March 03, 2021, 12:17:58 PM
Bring back the Braz. Knix are so thin up front. Moses Brown and/or Paul Reed, any shot at a trade?

RE:  MOSES

WRIGHT is the one we want
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 03, 2021, 04:54:26 PM
SPURS 18-13.  Hmmmmm...

Celts also back on track.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 03, 2021, 04:56:49 PM
Meanwhile the West story to watch is Pelicans trying to catch Dallas or Memphis

One of Ja, Luka or Zion likely to not make playoffs, as NBA suffers.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 03, 2021, 06:24:27 PM
PHX 15-3 last 18 games.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 03, 2021, 08:53:07 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 03, 2021, 03:08:20 PM
Quote from: elephant on March 03, 2021, 01:29:53 PM
I'd love to see the last 40 seconds of the second half again. My memory is that the Knicks got the ball with some 35 seconds and Randle leisurely brought it up — not the slightest thought for a 2-for-1. Later, a bad shot and miss. Then the 3-point debacle at the end of the half with less than a second on the clock.

Here ya go:
https://nbafullhd.com/23810-2/
Just scroll to the 18:00 mark

You can also watch the MSG feed here:
https://nbafullhd.com/new-york-knicks-vs-san-antonio-spurs-2-mar-2021-replays-fulltedgame/
Part 2 = 2Q.  But they cut off this video just as Randle's shot hits the side of the backboard with 11 secs left.
And then the last 2 SA possessions are on Part 3.

No idea why Randle was bringing the ball upcourt the last two possessions, except that Franc had just been reinserted  as "PG".
But both of Knick last two possessions of the half SA wisely attack Randle's dribble just across midcourt to slow the NYK offense..

Thanks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 04, 2021, 04:23:05 AM
One thing interesting on those replays is that you can click the gear at the bottom right of the video to adjust settings.  Which allows you to slow down the vid feed to 1/4 normal speed.  Your own personal replay center (sans the extra camera angles).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 04, 2021, 09:55:32 AM
Wow, what a defensive debacle on the 3. What was Thibs thinking with that setup?
Title: Sorry Franc ...
Post by: bodiddley on March 04, 2021, 10:31:34 AM
I looked at it again, and my mistake, both times at the end of the half it was Quickly who passed the ball to Randle in the backcourt
to bring up.  I assumed it was Franc since he had just checked in (and he used to do that a lot last year). 

And give Franc credit, he stops DeJounte's penetration, who kicks it out to the corner where Randle does a poor close-out
so Semanjic drives and Franc rotates from his man and establishes position on the baseline to take the charge.
Terrific play by Franc effectively guarding two guys on the play and forcing the turnover.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 04, 2021, 12:45:48 PM
With Doncic out, KZ led DAL with 19 & 13.
Held OKC to 78 points.
DAL Knicks: KZ 19, Tim 19 & Burke 9 & 6 assists.

Mavs have won 10 of 13 and up to 18-16.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 04, 2021, 01:48:17 PM
 The Mavericks are very disappointing this year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 04, 2021, 02:14:25 PM
Celts looking at Harrison Barnes

2 years 38 mil after this year.  28 yrs old
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 04, 2021, 02:23:39 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on March 04, 2021, 09:55:32 AM
Wow, what a defensive debacle on the 3. What was Thibs thinking with that setup?

Bizarre.  The inbounder can't score so we had 5 men to guard 4 and somehow Mills gets wide open because we are playing zone and Noel isn't guarding anything.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 04, 2021, 03:45:59 PM
The old Harbinger of Doom play.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 04, 2021, 04:51:03 PM
Frank has probably never played the bottom of a 2-3 zone in his life,

heh

If you look at it real closely, IQ had 50% of the fault.  Frank did have a 2 v 1 and could not simply let the big man loose for a lay up.  IQ could have come down from his top slot - and gotten help from the other side should a player have come open in his area.

Collegiate/HS teams of course work hard on stopping this play.  Alertness and communication the key , plus the quickness on the closeout.

Other idea?  Play man, of course.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 04, 2021, 06:35:42 PM
It's a small thing, but it's a drag that Quickley wasn't on the rookie (rising stars) team.

Not sure why. I think his numbers clearly should have supported the nod.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 04, 2021, 06:49:22 PM
Quote from: elephant on March 04, 2021, 06:35:42 PM
It's a small thing, but it's a drag that Quickley wasn't on the rookie (rising stars) team.

Not sure why. I think his numbers clearly should have supported the nod.

He is #3 here
https://www.nba.com/news/kia-rookie-ladder-march-3-edition (https://www.nba.com/news/kia-rookie-ladder-march-3-edition)

But the Rising Stars is only half-American so IQ has to compete with Rookies and 2nd year players for 10 spots.
Title: Bucks poach Powell
Post by: Kam on March 04, 2021, 06:52:10 PM
The New York Knicks lost former Seton Hall star Myles Powell to the Milwaukee Bucks.
The Bucks plan to sign Powell to a two-way contract after an impressive stint with the Westchester Knicks in the G League Orlando bubble.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 04, 2021, 06:53:22 PM
Powell is the second Westchester Knicks player to be signed by other NBA teams this season.

Last month, the Houston Rockets signed former Westchester center Justin Patton to a similar two-way contract. The Rockets recently made him their starting center after releasing DeMarcus Cousins. Patton is averaging 6.2 points, 3.6 rebounds, and 1.8 blocks in 20.4 minutes for the Rockets.

As the NBA and NBPA intend to loosen the restrictions on two-way contracts this season, Powell will be eligible to play for the Bucks’ regular-season and postseason games once the board approves the revision.

After going undrafted, Powell, the former Big East Player of the Year, signed an exhibit 10 contract with the Knicks. Unfortunately, he didn’t make the regular-season roster. He was relegated to the Knicks’ G League team, where he shined as the team’s third-leading scorer behind Jared Harper and Ignas Brazdeikis.

The Knicks have already maxed out their two-way spots with Harper and Theo Pinson.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 04, 2021, 06:56:49 PM

Quote from: elephant on March 04, 2021, 06:35:42 PM
It's a small thing, but it's a drag that Quickley wasn't on the rookie (rising stars) team.

Not sure why. I think his numbers clearly should have supported the nod.

4 rooks and 6 sophs for the Americans

Would have liked an even split.

Not sure if IQ makes it anyway

(Tyrese, Edwards, Wismean, Ball, then who?)

World also had 4 rookies.

Likely Quicks is 5th, US but it could be Williams
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 04, 2021, 07:03:59 PM
The Knicks have already maxed out their two-way spots with Harper and Theo Pinson.


Powell could very well be better than both - just hasnt paid any dues
Title: Kan(s)ter
Post by: carlos123 on March 05, 2021, 01:00:15 AM
Amazing how good Enes is playing. Should be an all-star!
22 points, 21 rebounds, to go with 2 assists and 1 block for good measure.
For a +13, the best of the Portland Knicks by far.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 05, 2021, 03:46:41 AM
2nd possession of the game for DET.  Jr. Smith dribbles into two guys and has it stolen by Noel.  Next Knick possession, Smith oddly stands next to Noel on the weakside block and completely ignores his man, so Elf simply cuts right past the unaware Smith for an easy layup.  Ooops.

Somehow Jr. Smith had a triple double last game, but his head looks elsewhere to start this one.  Be interesting to see watch the Elf-Smith matchup unfold.  As these guys obviously know each other.

A couple minutes later Elf drives right past Smith for an easy 6 foot floater. Mid-1Q Smith with a nice backdoor cut and layup.  Burned RJB who had switched on to Smith and then fell asleep.

5:min mark, Smith Jr pops a straight on 3.
Then immediately gets baffled on a simple give-and-go with the threat of a high screen, allowing Elf to get the ball at the rim and is fouled by a help big.  Jr. Smith is rather bad at defense. 

DET came alive the tail end of 1Q once the 2nd unit arrived.

Title: Elfrid Payton
Post by: chipstern on March 05, 2021, 06:31:21 AM
How about a little love for Elfrid? 

He came out fired up, and in Derrick's absence, tallied a 20 points and a +17 in 35 minutes

He was 7-14 from the field, 1-2 from trey, 5-6 from the FT line, with 6 boards, 4 assists, 4 steals and a block. 

True, every time he hits an open three, an angel gets its wings. 

But as per Julius and his evolution under Thibs, a coach who trusts and stands by him, Payton's FT% is up to .743%, which represents a career high, and significant statistical improvement given his forays into the paint. 

He has responded to fan derision, and competition from Rose, Quickley, Ntililkina and Rivers by raising his game. 

Worth repeating: RJ has also been working to raise his game, and as his north/south downhill game, defense and facilitation has gotten nothing but better, his shooting has become less wince-inducing. 

16.5 ppg
6.0 boards
2.9 assists
.730% FT [103-141]
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 05, 2021, 10:34:53 AM
That was one of the better games I've seen Elf play — props due!


*** per Bo's analysis above — it hardly came against NBA-level competition, but matters not, he delivered.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 05, 2021, 11:48:05 AM
Read Julius' tale of his evolution.
https://www.theplayerstribune.com/posts/reputation-julius-randle-new-york-knicks-basketball-nba
Including a mea culpa for not leading enough last year (and pressing).

I like how Randle references his family (in a hoops context) and Kobe's mentoring.
Sounds like he's done a lot of maturing and put in the hard work.

I sort of hate to say it but he's only been playing at an all-star level for half a season.
Recently his turnovers have crept up and his defense slipped.  But he's at the top for minutes played.
I hope he has fun at the AS game, but he could probably use rest more. 

Randle has been a tough cover all year, with his scoring and passing. 
And his baseline J the past month plus is reminiscent of Ewing and Bernard.

Anyway read his words.  Hard not to pull for the guy.  Where would this year's edition be without Randle's game and leadership.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 05, 2021, 01:00:48 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on March 05, 2021, 10:34:53 AM
That was one of the better games I've seen Elf play — props due!


*** per Bo's analysis above — it hardly came against NBA-level competition, but matters not, he delivered.

Yup.

It’s going to be a fierce competition for minutes with so many of our guards playing so well.
Title: Julius
Post by: chipstern on March 05, 2021, 01:28:12 PM
Only half a season?

Mmmmm
Title: Blake Griffin
Post by: chipstern on March 05, 2021, 01:30:36 PM
So, where does FA Blake end up? 

Marc Stein: The Lakers, Clippers, Nets, Heat and Warriors are among the teams that have expressed interest in Blake Griffin when he becomes an unrestricted free agent, league sources say – via Twitter TheSteinLine
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 05, 2021, 01:37:27 PM
Not Brooklyn
Title: Re: Julius
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 05, 2021, 01:38:17 PM
Quote from: chipstern on March 05, 2021, 01:28:12 PM
Only half a season?

Mmmmm

Bo likes to talk about season segments

He's quirky
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 06, 2021, 04:24:57 AM
Really my thoughts that it's only been a half a season of All-Star Randle came last week after Chip had us giving Julius a max contract.  Give Randle all the praise you want for this year's effort, but lets see if he can sustain and build on this before maxing him out and committing to a Randle-led team.  Julius will make a significant $20M next year.  If he over-performs that, great.  But I'd wait til mid-next season or after his contract expires for any new contract.  No need to do an early extension, unless there a Knick discount involved.  This isn't a Mitch situation where the player is significantly underpaid and an injury could prevent him from ever securing his family's financial future.

I'd also like to see Randle2.0 play alongside a genuine starting PG, which will be another adjustment for Julius.  But that's not likely to happen before his contract expires.  And Randle's minutes should be cut down so that we don't cripple him in pursuit of a 7th or 8th seed.  Everyone's a superman until a body part gives out.
Just look at where Blake Griffin is today.  Besides JR's 4Q play (and overall play) should benefit from a somewhat lighter workload.  Toppin can handle 15 mins a night.  Nothing like actual game time for learning.
_____________________________________________________________

Othersowise, here's an article penned by Allan Houston on The Shot and the Knix recruitment when he was a FA.  From just before Xmas.
https://www.theplayerstribune.com/posts/allan-houston-new-york-knicks-basketball-nba


(https://images2.minutemediacdn.com/image/upload/c_fill,w_1440,ar_3:2,f_auto,q_auto,g_auto/shape/cover/sport/dataimagejpegbase649j4QAYRXhpZgAASUkqAAgAAAAAAAAAA-2a9368ed21ab3548335eed6aab3d7ec5.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 06, 2021, 04:41:19 AM
I saw somewhere a max extension for Randle would be 4 years 106 million. 

Can anyone verify that? 

If so I wouldn't be opposed to paying him that.  That's still a bargain.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 06, 2021, 07:16:03 AM
I saw that too. 
I wouldn't call it a bargain, but that's not bad. 
I was expecting closer to $30M. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 06, 2021, 08:50:43 AM
Max contracts

https://heavy.com/sports/2019/05/nba-supermax-contract-how-much-salary/

Chart shows it to be more than you guys are discussing

No supermax, since Julius isnt with same team from rookie year and likely wont be all NBA

Last year Kemba Walker's number was 4 years 141 mil

(key is it goes by per cent of salary cap - not what Randle's current salary is)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 06, 2021, 09:06:40 AM
Corrected - since Julius next year is NOT a team option, Knicks can only offer the 4-106

As much money as Randle’s three-year, $60 million contract seemed when he signed it, it’s not that overwhelming now. Under Randle’s third-year figure of $20 million, the Knicks could only offer him a top deal of four years, $106 million that would extend starting in 2022-23 at $24 million, according to ESPN’s cap guru Bobby Marks. If Randle’s final year were technically a team option, they could have offered him a max extension. However, it’s technically a partially guaranteed final year.

If nothing happens, Randle stands to be a restricted free agent in 2022.

Read:  we arent extending him

Once he becomes a restricted free agent we could then offer much more.  (Read:  do not expect Randle extension pact signed, though we should expect that Knicks will keep him by signing or matching for '22-'23 after paying him 21 next year)
Title: Julius Maximus
Post by: chipstern on March 06, 2021, 09:17:51 AM
BoD

Would you be so kind as to reference "My Quote" regarding maxing out Julius.  I do not deny ownership, but I do not recall what you are referencing. 

Of course, plenty of evidence as to you shipping JR out on a garabge barge in one of your prescient trade scenarios. 

As per what Julius needs to do to convince you, if a roughly 25-15-5 stat line night in and night out and an 18-17 record at the All-Star break for a club widely projected to be a lottery lock is insufficient, well, excuse me...

I do not recall what your projection was for the Knicks record?  Anyone? 

Mine as I recollect was 33-39.  We would have to go 15-22 the rest of the way to achieve that. 

PS: Worth reflecting on BoD's ennui when the Knicks did not pony up a bid commensurate with the 18 million X 4 for 3&D icon Bogdan Bogdonavich, given our pressing need for talent at the 2 & 3.  Given, BB has been held back by injuries, but so far this season, Randle's 3-point % has significantly trumped that of BB, who apparently has nothing to prove. 

PPS: Likewise, Atlanta invested VERY SERIOUS GUARANTEED MONEY in players who "could've helped" us such as Bogdonavich and Gallinari, while Leon Rose committed pennies on the dollar for one year make goods on the far less sexy signings of Bullock and Burks, moves which BoD found lacking in forward thinking regarding our need for an immediate investment of resources.  Meanwhile, Knikcs are 18-17 [though I would expect us to come down to Earth post-AllStar break], while Atlnata is 16-20 and just fired their coach. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 06, 2021, 02:17:42 PM
If we are limited in what we can offer to Randle now, we should offer it and let him know it’s available. If we are super lucky, he’ll take it. If not, it helps show the organization’s love which may help down the line when other teams can put their offers alongside ours.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 06, 2021, 02:53:30 PM
Meanwhile, Knikcs are 18-17 [though I would expect us to come down to Earth post-AllStar break], while Atlnata is 16-20 and just fired their coach.

heh
Title: One more time ...
Post by: carlos123 on March 06, 2021, 08:53:11 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on March 06, 2021, 02:53:30 PM
Meanwhile, Knikcs are 18-17 [though I would expect us to come down to Earth post-AllStar break], while Atlnata is 16-20 and just fired their coach.

heh

... Your Chamaco Cartero

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3ckosSoTRHGXG4k-OCA2pVXfzewhXuzBYoGpsyMZVnzDq9ClI46oruQhbgSzQ9NiWcRnXh17QQU1T2E-x8FKtLT4EzHS0NTRyTH3a3D_76D71Q-i9VLGdWCOYKW1N7yNCrXtD_KYx0uYx_1P39yT7qh=w368-h570-no?authuser=0)

Mr. heh

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 07, 2021, 03:18:25 AM
NBofA Trivia:

Which player made 1,000 3-pointers in the fewest career games?
(ie. the fastest to reach 1000 made 3's)
Title: Buddy Reach
Post by: chipstern on March 07, 2021, 06:43:28 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 07, 2021, 03:18:25 AM
NBofA Trivia:

Which player made 1,000 3-pointers in the fewest career games?
(ie. the fastest to reach 1000 made 3's)

Hield And Higher Water Mark? 
Title: SOMETHING LEFT TO PROVE [Re: Buddy Reach]
Post by: chipstern on March 07, 2021, 06:59:35 AM
Quote from: chipstern on March 07, 2021, 06:43:28 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 07, 2021, 03:18:25 AM
NBofA Trivia:

Which player made 1,000 3-pointers in the fewest career games?
(ie. the fastest to reach 1000 made 3's)

Hield And Higher Water Mark?

The 28 year old's percentile down in his 5th season from  .391, .431, .427, .394 to a measly [cough] .378 this season [140-370]. 

Apros pos of nothing at all, Julius Randle in his second season as a Knick has gone from a .277% [64-231] to a .408% [69-169]. 

PS: Julius has 205 assists so far in 2020-21.  Buddy has 114.  Interesting stat, no?

PPS: Contract tracing?

$24,931,817   $22,977,272   $21,022,728   $19,068,183

$19,845,000   $19,800,000

Which twin has the Toni? 

PPPS: Just for giggles, which potential free agents we could've/should've inked. 

$19,500,000   $20,475,000   $21,450,000

$18,000,000   $18,000,000   $18,000,000   $18,000,000

Hint....3 & Sprees

PPPPPPPPPPPPPS: $13,015,874   $13,666,667   $14,317,459 [This would appear to be a bargain]

Oh, and relatively speaking [All one year expirings, save for one team option]

Derrick Rose:    $7,682,926
Alec Burks:       $6,000,000
Nerlens Noel:    $5,000,000
Elfrid Payton     $4,767,000
Reggie Bullock: $4,200,000   
Austin Rivers:   $3,500,000   $3,325,000   $3,150,00
Taj Gibson:       $3,283,684

$34,433,610

Or roughly where the bidding would start on a gimpy due to be a UFA this summer Victor Oladipo. 

Who in all fairness is averaging 19.9, 4.9, 4.7 with 1.4 steals, though his 3pt shooting is down to .313 [35-112]

And our own R.J.?  16.5, 6.0, 2.9 with 0.5 steals, shooting .350 from trey [43-123]

Grass is always greener to Knicks Trader Vics.  RJ will be 21 in June.  VO will be 29 in May [forgive me if I won't swoon.] 

Julius will be 27 in November. 
Title: What's The Over Under On Blake Griffin
Post by: chipstern on March 07, 2021, 07:28:44 AM
I see Brooklyn in Blake's future now that he's been bought out. 

Andre Drummond?  If and when he is bought out?  Kevin Love? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 07, 2021, 11:52:40 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 07, 2021, 03:18:25 AM
NBofA Trivia:

Which player made 1,000 3-pointers in the fewest career games?
(ie. the fastest to reach 1000 made 3's)

Jimmer Fredette
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 07, 2021, 12:02:49 PM
Apros pos of nothing at all, Julius Randle in his second season as a Knick has gone from a .277% [64-231] to a .408% [69-169].


NOW is when you should say expectation wanes.......

PS: Julius has 205 assists so far in 2020-21.  Buddy has 114.  Interesting stat, no?


not really - Buddy doesnt have it in his hands much

Or roughly where the bidding would start on a gimpy due to be a UFA this summer Victor Oladipo.

Who in all fairness is averaging 19.9, 4.9, 4.7 with 1.4 steals, though his 3pt shooting is down to .313 [35-112]

Yes.  Nice player, Victor.  Many called in yesterday to "JR" on the FAN asking for the addition of Vic or another wing scorer.  Was an entertaining segment led by a new radio voice.

JR is smart - but sometimes thinks he is too smart - talking down to his audience.  He had this forum's "why upgrade?" and "thats not an upgrade" tone.  ELBA come to life - heh

Evan Fournier's name also featured in discussion.  It was a great time for me to bring up Horford if I had the time to call in.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 07, 2021, 12:04:41 PM
Who in all fairness is averaging 19.9, 4.9, 4.7 with 1.4 steals, though his 3pt shooting is down to .313 [35-112]

And our own R.J.?  16.5, 6.0, 2.9 with 0.5 steals, shooting .350 from trey [43-123]

What do yous ee as the key differences in these stat lines?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 07, 2021, 12:05:49 PM
https://sports.yahoo.com/report-knicks-still-looking-victor-004737714.html
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 07, 2021, 12:11:04 PM
20-5.2-4.5, by the way - are Oladipo's correct (overall) numbers for this year.

And .331 from deep.  On 7.5 attempts  (career average 4.6)

Title: Re: What's The Over Under On Blake Griffin
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 07, 2021, 12:37:47 PM
Quote from: chipstern on March 07, 2021, 07:28:44 AM
I see Brooklyn in Blake's future now that he's been bought out. 

Andre Drummond?  If and when he is bought out?  Kevin Love?

JR also loved Blake to the Nets

I like Drummond better for them.  Toss Cleveland Dinwiddie in the package.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 07, 2021, 05:38:41 PM
Checking into TNT to actually watch the entirety of NBA All Star Sunday

157-155 last year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 07, 2021, 05:42:18 PM
Simmons out
Embiid out

(COVID barber - heh)

Zion starts
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 07, 2021, 06:56:34 PM
skills challenge — fun watching Julius have so much fun, even though Sabonis cooked him
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 07, 2021, 07:21:49 PM
They should've had a spin move in the skills challenge.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 07, 2021, 10:11:09 PM
OBI acquitted himself well.
Title: Julius & Son
Post by: chipstern on March 08, 2021, 12:04:14 PM
Kyden Randle. 

So cute.  Really moved to to see him interact with his father. 

(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/wHNT0ys9cd9iC_jp84rNuQ--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTY0MA--/https://media.zenfs.com/en/sny_articles_235/059a96c8043e4854dcd86f68bf571d4a)

Speaking of which...saw a photo I was not able to track down in a Google search of Papa J holding him up at the All-Star game, and I was kind of freaked how LONG he already was. I mean, he is only 4.  Yikes. 

In Julius mea cupla to Knicks fans, I was taken by how it freaked him when Kyden was imitating him arguing with the refs, like, WHERE'S MY CALL, and how it motivated him to back up and reflect on how he was projecting to Knicks fans as well as his own son. 

Keep on keeping on, JR.  BoD is waiting for you in the Playoffs Suite with a Shanghai Surprise.  I am told he can be VERY generous. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 08, 2021, 04:15:41 PM
zzzzzzzzzzzzzz.............
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 08, 2021, 04:39:54 PM
Poor baby, the convo is not to your liking.  So sad.
You got nothing to say, say nothing.

Randle copped to having some empty calorie numbers last year.
He changed his body, his approach and his game.
Deserved to be an all-star (but so did Bam).

My concern is whether Randle can keep it up a full season.  And then another year. And then another 4 years.  When you hit a peak it doesn't mean you plateau at that level or continue to ascend.

It isn't easy to be locked in and focused and disciplined a full 72 (formerly 82) games.  We've already seen Randle slip a bit the past 10 games or so -- getting a bit sloppy with turnovers (passes to no one here and there) and playing some iffy D (I'd argue that Randle was a better team defender next to Mitch, and that's part of it).   

Dr. Julius continues to be locked in on scoring where his baseline J and 3's have been impressive.  But his drives and drive-and-kicks have been less threatening lately.  Some of it no doubt is the workload Thibs gives him.  AS game hopefully allowed Randle to relax and recharge.  I wish we had a defensive PF who could come in and spell Randle.  But Obi hasn't been a disaster on that end.

Randle seems like a good guy who gives a damn.  But also needs more help on the court.  With a legit starting PG and some reliable shooters (are we ever allowed to have a 3&D wing?), Randle could hone his game and likely maintain a high level.  I still don't think this is a genuine .500 team.  That's where things stand after an easy stretch of games (did you see all the nobodaddies DET was running out there?).  Schedule gets tougher from here on out. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 08, 2021, 05:40:00 PM
Bo, we start 2 3&D wings and bring Frank off the bench as a third.

Rose does more than enough well enough as a starting PG to help everyone he plays with shine.

I expect a fight between Frank, Payton, and Quickley for reserve guard minutes heading into the second half.

It’s possible Thibs still starts Payton, but it’s clear Rose deserves more minutes especially to close.

Playmakers getting guys shots is more of an issue than shooters. Our percentages are fine and trending up. Our attempts are still way low.

We’re 12th in the league at .372 3pt% as a team on 10 fewer attempts a game than our opponents.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 08, 2021, 06:06:36 PM
I like Bullox, but he's really a backup player.
RJB is not a 3 & D guy.  He's done well with the 3-ball lately, but can also go real cold.  His team defense is pretty solid especially on weakside closeouts.  But he's otherwise still a subpar defender.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 08, 2021, 06:10:00 PM
My concern is whether Randle can keep it up a full season.  And then another year. And then another 4 years.  When you hit a peak it doesn't mean you plateau at that level or continue to ascend.

Oh well - that's pro sports, my friend

So which way do you choose kif youa re the Knicks?

1 -TRADE Julius for a package that includes picks

2 - Let Julius play next year and then see what offers you need to match - with the risk of losing him altogether

3 - Extend Julius at big dollars now (I am talking 4-120 for '22-'26)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 08, 2021, 06:15:43 PM
Randle seems like a good guy who gives a damn.  But also needs more help on the court.  With a legit starting PG and some reliable shooters (are we ever allowed to have a 3&D wing?), Randle could hone his game and likely maintain a high level.  I still don't think this is a genuine .500 team.  That's where things stand after an easy stretch of games (did you see all the nobodaddies DET was running out there?).  Schedule gets tougher from here on out


I think the problem, Bo - is that you do not watch enough of the games.

Nobody who has half a brain and watches full contests would say that Julius has slipped

But your stats says so.  ding ding - a real winner.

And Bullock and Burks are giving you exactly what you say we do not have.  OK< so they don't defend like Covington.  I give you that.  But this year RC is not shooting it like our guys, is he?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 08, 2021, 06:38:00 PM
Mikal Bridges in Phoenix is this years 3&D prototype if you are keeping it under the all-star level.

4 for 120 is team friendly for Randle.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 09, 2021, 12:10:22 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on March 08, 2021, 06:15:43 PM

I think the problem, Bo - is that you do not watch enough of the games.
Nobody who has half a brain and watches full contests would say that Julius has slipped
But your stats says so.  ding ding - a real winner.

I've seen most Knick games this year, and probably 18 of the last 20.  Maybe 19.  Got a good replay site online.  It also allows you to replay possessions and pinpoint mistakes.  (like the other day I blamed Franc for giving Randle the ball in the backcourt twice before the half, and then looked again and saw they were Quickly's faux pas).

I cited no stats; looked up no stats.
Just watch the games, Dr. Julius's assists are down and turnovers up.  Last 10 games or so Clyde has taken to saying that turnovers are Randle's nemesis.  Weren't hearing that earlier in the year.  Didn't see passes to no one back then.  Earlier in the year, Randle's turnovers seemed to mostly come 4Q when the guy was often exhausted. 

While Randle has made a lot more defensive mistakes the past dozen games.  His stellar scoring has hid this slippage from some.  Looks to me like Randle is a little mentally and physically fatigued and hasn't been able to keep things at a very high level across the board.  Probably also some regression, as old habits are hard yo overcome.

Quote
And Bullock and Burks are giving you exactly what you say we do not have.  OK< so they don't defend like Covington.  I give you that.  But this year RC is not shooting it like our guys, is he?

Again, Bullox is more a 3&D player at the backup level on a good playoff team, or at the best the weakest link.  RegBull has been a good defender this year.  And his 1Q shooting/scoring has been nice.  But he often goes passive/disappears the 2nd half.
Burks is a subpar defender and 35% 3-pointer for the past 2 months.
Agree they've done an adequate job.  Can help you finish close to .500
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 09, 2021, 01:21:25 AM
Please - just stop.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 09, 2021, 04:08:12 AM
Randle started out averaging 4.5 TO’s in December then he dropped to 3 per which he has maintained into the break. That would be good for a 20 and 10 guy who wasn’t averaging more than 5 dimes. He is averaging more than 5 dimes and 20 and 10. I think that’s pretty good. Could it be better? Sure, it could be better. If he cut his turnovers and closed out 3 point shooters better, he’d be an MVP candidate. As it is, he’s carrying us and dealing well with the load.

We want Randle for the next five years and Rose for two or three of them at least, even if we draft a stud guard and expect to keep developing Quickley.

I hope we stand pat or move at the margins while the rumor mill swirls and trade season runs it’s course.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 09, 2021, 09:13:23 AM
First 20

Knicks 9-11

Next 17 - Knicks 10-7

LAST SEVENTEEN Randle's numbers are act11ually better pretty much across the board (assists I think came down from 6 per early)

Has two 30-point games

30 - accomplished in first stretch of games, 44 pt game in second stretch.

Game score average almost 2 ticks higher (19+ vs 17+)

see

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/randlju01/gamelog/2021
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 09, 2021, 09:27:04 AM
RE:  Bullock

I am not disagreeing with Bo's assessment that his position could be upgraded

Burks is the better player.  Reggie fits better with our other starters.  Together I think they are a pretty darn good tandem, if sans All Star potential.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 09, 2021, 09:41:34 AM
Some terrific NBA Radio this morning included stories from Jeff Ruland on the physicality of the game back in the day - and Sam Mitchell's startling account of the Reggie 8 points in 9 seconds game.

Mitchell was set to be the goat that game, since after Miller tied it up with his second 3, Sam thought they still trailed and fouled John Starks intentionally.

Then the backstory of how JS missed the two free throws is downright hilarious, Miller taunting him the entire way.  Knicks then FOUL Reggie on the rebound of the second Starks miss because they just wanted to mug him for being such an asshole.  Miller of course was 85 feet from the winning basket with just a few ticks left and (I think) no time outs.

Mitchell also recounts how players would intentionally crush opponents when they strayed from proper decorum/respect.  One tale of Derrick McKey, the mild mannered player - being dissed by a young Kobe during a game.  Then with the game out of hand Isiah (Indy coach) was taking McKey out - Derrick says, "no - leave me in - 'cause I am going to take MYSELF out"  Fast forward a bit and Kobe is on a 1 v 2 break vs McKey and TRavis Bets.  Derrick tells Best to let Kobe go - and he just WIPES Bryant out - earning the DQ from the contest.

Oh, the good old days

Mitchell:  "I love Charles Oakley, but back then, if I passed him in the road - and it was minus 50 degrees - I wasnt picking him up.   Maybe the trunk... but no way was he sitting next to me"

On Pat Riley's Knicks:  "You know Riles wouldnt let them even talk to the opposing team.  Patrick would come out and say, ya know...I cant talk to ya'all....."

Mitch also relays the account of how every time a Knicks would foul Reggie, they would get payback by fouling Ewing hard.  Patrick saying to his mates, "guys, ya gotta stop - I'm getting killed here"

A story on a  young Wally Sczerbiak - and how coaches like Jack Ramsey knew he couldnt D, so would iso his ass all night.  MITCH goes to Wally and says - "hey rook - just let your guy go - then wipe his ass the hell out when he grts to the hoop.  Then go over to Ramsey and say, 'I get 6 - got 5 more of those for your boys' - "  Mitch once did the same to "my good friend" Sharif Abdur Rahim, who put a move on Sam and scored easily - then the next time was yo-yoing - setting him up again.  Mitchell just wiped SAR out - telling him - "you can score on me, but you are not gonna clown me"


Love it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 09, 2021, 11:45:04 AM
Bullocks > Burks
You tend to go for flashy scorers and have little regard for defense

To an extent Randle has had two distinct season already.
First approx. 20 games he was the 1Q MVP.  Just dominant out of the gate.  Scoring, boarding, assists.  He'd drive hard, draw regular double teams and pick out open shooters.  4Q he was less effective and would have more of his turnovers.  Some games he really looked wiped out there playing 36+ minutes (was leading the league in minutes played and top 3 in mpg).

Then the last 15 games (or somesuch), Randle has taken a lesser role in the 1Q.
And been more effective late.  During this period, his shooting has been outrageous, knocking down 3's at a high clip and all Bernard King on the baseline.  A lot fewer drives, not compromising the D by drawing double teams much, scoring at the rim less.  There have even been times where Julius has caught the ball around the FT line open, with his man a few feet away, and Randle has passed instead of looking at the hoop.  He's still moving the ball well, but it's a lot less of the power drives that draw doubles and kicking to open shooters as earlier in the season.

Looks to me like Randle's defense has slipped some.  Partly as teams have adjusted some and forced Julius to guard more on the perimeter.  I think Utah did that with Gobert and 4 shooters.  Also, LAC with PatPat and MaMo.  And I think Randle was more comfortable with Mitch down low, though Noel blocks a lot near the rim.  Maybe just because Mitch was willing to come out further than Nawlins, letting Randle stay down low more.  Would have to watch more replays/film on that.  Would be interesting to hear someone inside the Knix or an outside hoops analyst talk about the Knix defense with Randle and with Noel.  In general, they are rather similar players so you can keep the same coverages and schemes.  But that doesn't mean there aren't some differences and some residual effects.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 09, 2021, 12:50:46 PM
Overall, Randle's FEB assists were lower and turnovers higher than Jan.
DEC was just 5 games and Randle's DEC turnovers inflated by a near quadruple -double v. CLE (9 turns).
Mid-Feb Randle had an assist lull for 5 of 6 games.
And mid-to-late Feb his turnovers were up for a stretch.

Unsurprisingly, Randle's numbers across the board are lower in second games of B2B's.  Likely to do the workload.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 09, 2021, 12:57:57 PM
Bullocks = Burks

In that

* neither of these guys should ever start on a serious team.
* both can be high quality role players off the bench.

Bullocks a little better defensively, but it's a crevice not a canyon of difference. Burks is a little better offensively, same caveat applies. I'm feeling Bullocks a little more right now cause it gets a wee bit ugly when Burks tries to go beyond his essential skill set, but that changes when he's hot. Thibs rides their streaks pretty well.

Happy to have em both. Will know we've made a leap as a team when neither has to start or play 15 min+.

It's really not worth arguing much over who is "better. "

Title: Trade Deadline [The Bullock/Burks Chronicles]
Post by: chipstern on March 09, 2021, 01:28:53 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on March 09, 2021, 12:57:57 PM
Bullocks = Burks

In that

* neither of these guys should ever start on a serious team.
* both can be high quality role players off the bench.

Bullocks a little better defensively, but it's a crevice not a canyon of difference. Burks is a little better offensively, same caveat applies. I'm feeling Bullocks a little more right now cause it gets a wee bit ugly when Burks tries to go beyond his essential skill set, but that changes when he's hot. Thibs rides their streaks pretty well.

Happy to have em both. Will know we've made a leap as a team when neither has to start or play 15 min+.

It's really not worth arguing much over who is "better. "

Well, both were garage sales, both were cheap, both ARE placeholders.  Who knows if they come back next fall. 

Griffin signing with the Nyets, no surprise there.  Good match if he stay healthy.  Was hitting his threes with regularly before the Pistons sat him down. 

Nyets signed him for the vets minimum I believe. 

Either way, a compelling argument for NOT PISSING AWAY YOUR CAP SPACE WILY NILY. 

This time of year, there are often fire sales, buy outs, so talent is available. 

Nice to have cap space to be able to facilitate transactions as the third or fourth team, harvest some of your own expiring contracts for draft assets, etcetera. 

There's an interesting article in today's post about Leon Rose's first year. 

https://nypost.com/2021/03/09/how-leon-rose-rebuilt-the-knicks-an-inside-look/ (https://nypost.com/2021/03/09/how-leon-rose-rebuilt-the-knicks-an-inside-look/)

And the influence of all the people he brought on board, including Thibs, World Wide Wes, Brock Aller, Walt Perrin and how Rose encourages input and debate and sorts through dissent. 

How he resisted Thibs passion to go all in on FAs such as Morris, Hayward and [This Bud's for You, BoD] Bodgdonavich, side with Aller's more conservative approach to second tier FAs, and acceeded to WWW's unceasing UNRELENTING support for Immanuel Quickley.  And Wes was right. 

Aller's thinking being to keep cap space alive, and possibly offload reasonable expiring contracts such as [this one's for Dawg] those of Bullock and Burks at the deadline for possible draft assets. 

We shall see if Aller's right or not.  Can't see Thibs signing off on offloading Payton, but he has surely upped his game and his potential exchange rate. 

Leon Rose did give in to Thibs on Derrick Rose, which really cost us next to nothing, Dennis having fallen out of rotations, and Thibs learned to respect Randle and put his trust in the long term possibilities of RJ, whom, according to the article, could have been in play if Thibs had his way, WHICH HE DID NOT [unlike in Minny where as a GM he traded what, Zach Levine, Dunn and the #1 which turned into Markessen for veteran Jimmy Butler, and which ultimately cost him his job]. 

I am hoping we do not do anything rash at the trade deadline, such as go all in for Oladipo, who is surely a gifted player, but likley a rental, where if so motivated, we could revisit that over the summer.  Would like to better ascertain his health, as well.  Drummond?  If bought out his game and options would more likley suit a team such as the Lakers, who are not shooting for the playoffs but for another ringy dingy. 

Of our one years, who amongst Rose, Rivers, Bullock, Burks, Payton, Noels, Gibson might be in play.  Who has made a case for a second look come summer. 

Of our puppies, Quickley, Toppin, Robinson, Ntilikina [qualifying offer comes due this summer], Knox, Brazdeikis and Harper, who fits our future. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 09, 2021, 01:37:12 PM
https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/31027277/nba-insiders-say-all-3s-reaching-critical-mass (https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/31027277/nba-insiders-say-all-3s-reaching-critical-mass)

I can't access this article but its headline intrigued me.

You can't compete anymore unless you have a bevy of three-point shooters. Common knowledge. But here's the thing — and I think Bo once talked about this — this shit is turning boring.

When a Knick makes a three? Cool! But in general, truth is, it's often a mechanical and tedious thing to watch. Three-point robots, standing in their spot, waiting for the ball to be kicked their way.

Where's the art and athleticism in that?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 09, 2021, 02:42:15 PM
Bullocks > Burks


Clearly.....no.

But it doesnt matter
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 09, 2021, 02:58:24 PM
How he resisted Thibs passion to go all in on FAs such as Morris, Hayward and [This Bud's for You, BoD] Bodgdonavich, side with Aller's more conservative approach to second tier FAs, and acceeded to WWW's unceasing UNRELENTING support for Immanuel Quickley.  And Wes was right



Has this been reported?  THat we pulled back?  I hadnt seen that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 09, 2021, 03:05:20 PM
Quote from: elephant on March 09, 2021, 01:37:12 PM
https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/31027277/nba-insiders-say-all-3s-reaching-critical-mass (https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/31027277/nba-insiders-say-all-3s-reaching-critical-mass)

I can't access this article but its headline intrigued me.

You can't compete anymore unless you have a bevy of three-point shooters. Common knowledge. But here's the thing — and I think Bo once talked about this — this shit is turning boring.

When a Knick makes a three? Cool! But in general, truth is, it's often a mechanical and tedious thing to watch. Three-point robots, standing in their spot, waiting for the ball to be kicked their way.

Where's the art and athleticism in that?

The piece:


A COUPLE OF WEEKS back, the Milwaukee Bucks and Minnesota Timberwolves squared off in a game that only a few years ago would have been historic but in 2021 is just another Tuesday night. In a sparsely filled Fiserv Forum, the two teams attempted 96 3-point shots -- one every 30 seconds.

Of the 22 players who took the floor, 19 of them took at least one 3. Wolves rookie Anthony Edwards is a marvel leaping off two feet, as witnessed by his recent dunk of the year spectacular -- though you wouldn't know it from this performance. The 31.4% 3-point shooter jacked up two attempts in the third quarter off the dribble from 26 feet, with 16 and 14 seconds remaining on the shot clock, respectively. Likewise, two-time reigning MVP Giannis Antetokounmpo, the league's most devastating finisher and still trying to cultivate an outside game, twice breezed across half court and launched an early triple.

It was hard to argue with the results: Nine of the 10 Bucks who logged minutes attempted a 3-pointer, and only Antetokounmpo (1-for-3) and Pat Connaughton (1-for-4) hit at worse than a 40% rate for the game. And Minnesota's performance wasn't awful -- a 35.2% clip that is comfortably above the NBA's Mendoza Line.

For a growing number of NBA executives and coaches, the problem isn't that NBA offenses are wrong for firing up an average of 35 attempts per game from long distance. The problem is that they're right. It would be tactical malpractice for any team to swear off the 3-pointer. There are a handful of players whose midrange 2-point attempt represents a high-percentage shot, but for the vast majority of players, the best shot is one from behind the 3-point line or at the rim.

Recent conversations with multiple league insiders about the state of the game reveal a consistent theme: As the rate of 3-pointers has exploded, the NBA might finally be reaching a critical mass. Some raise concerns because they believe the 3-ball has created a monotonous rhythm to each game, while others believe it has distorted the scoring system that determines wins and losses.


"You can go overboard -- those nights you get 45 and 50 [attempts]," said Detroit Pistons coach Dwane Casey, whose team ranks 11th in percentage of field goals attempted that are 3-pointers. "Your quality of shots is going down, and there's going to be quick possessions. It kind of dilutes the spirit of the game and the soul of the game. It's about moving the ball from side to side, not just coming down and jacking up quick 3s."

Measures that have been implemented over the past 20 years to help jump-start scoring are approaching an age of overcorrection. In an effort to lift the game out of the '90s mud -- "The poster-child image of that period is Mark Jackson posting up Charlie Ward," said Dallas Mavericks head coach Rick Carlisle -- the NBA might have created too much of a good thing.

THERE'S LITTLE DESIRE across the league to return to Patrick Ewing vs. Alonzo Mourning, but there's also a sense that the game is losing diversity of identity, at least offensively. This school of thought maintains that a stylistic conformity has overtaken the game. One of the more appealing characteristics of basketball is the number of ways a player can score, but a 3-pointer every 30 to 45 seconds introduces a repetition that isn't so appealing.

"With all sports or competitive endeavors, you want there to be a strategic dynamic where there are multiple paths to victory," said Daryl Morey, Philadelphia 76ers president of basketball operations. "You want measures and countermeasures that are pretty well-balanced, so that you can go down any one of those paths and get a victory if the path is chosen well and executed well. But the NBA right now appears to be somewhat unbalanced, in large part because the reward given for the 3 being worth 50% more than a 2 is out of balance."

Morey is anything but a back-in-the-day purist, and the Houston Rockets teams he previously presided over helped to fashion the trend of launching 3s with impunity. Today, there is only one ideological school in the NBA regarding these shots: pro. Everyone takes them, which has rendered them anything but special and largely unworthy of extra-credit points. In a dynamic market where a bucket could be worth a fraction of a point, the NBA could reset the value of a 3-pointer to bring it into balance. But "Curry for 2⅝!" would probably doom the game -- deservedly.

There's also the compounding effect of all these deep looks. Just the consistent threat of a 3-pointer allows the spacing for creators to find the other hyperefficient way to score -- a shot at the basket. As offenses now field four or even five shooters on the floor, and dynamos such as Stephen Curry and Damian Lillard must be accounted for at 30 feet or beyond, defenses simply have too much ground to cover to properly challenge the barrage of long-range shots. Efficiency begets efficiency.

"It often looks like no defense is being played," Casey said. "But when there are four shooters on the floor and a big man at the dunker [spot], spacing is inflated and a defense is stretched to its limit. Guys are working, but it's impossible to cover that much ground against NBA speed, quickness and power."

Including the playoffs, 61 games in NBA history have featured at least 90 3-point attempts -- and 45 of the 61 have occurred since the start of last season, according to ESPN Sports & Information. The 3-pointer now represents 39.4% of all field goal attempts -- that's up 61% from the 2011-12 season. For those who welcome or accept the ascendance of the 3, this is a feature not a bug. Carlisle, who has served as the president of the NBA Coaches Association for more than 15 years, believes that change is a defining characteristic of basketball, as is adaptation to the new reality by players and coaches at every level.

Changes to the way the NBA was officiated -- first with regard to illegal defense in the early 2000s, then by severely limiting contact between a defender and a ball handler -- liberated perimeter players and put a newfound premium on outside shooting. The result was a generation of players, irrespective of size, who had to expand their games if they wanted to achieve at the next level.

"I don't think we can call it a bad thing when players are highly skilled, which is what the game should be about," Carlisle said. "The 3-point shot has revolutionized our game. Taking a dribble-up 3 six or seven years ago was a cardinal sin. And now we're all doing drills where guys shoot dribble-up 3s -- and we include our 7-3 center in those drills. The value of this sort of 3-point shot is big. So this may become a shifting conversation to, 'How do we fortify our teams with the right kind of defenders who can still shoot the ball, drive it and make plays?'"

While offenses appear increasingly alike, their firepower has inspired more defensive diversity than ever. The variety of pick-and-roll coverages continues to metastasize, as switching has evolved from a novelty to standard over the last decade. All the while, we've seen everything from the box-and-one to the kind of hybrid zone that Casey cooked up when he presided over the defense a decade ago in Dallas under Carlisle.

Casey says that the volume of 3-point shots is, in large part, a result of those well-intentioned efforts to create more space on the floor for a free-flowing game. The deluge of 3-pointers that has followed isn't entirely a product of kids trying to imitate Curry but a consequence of a game when those kids are often wide open because spacing has been inflated.

"One primary thing that triggers all those 3-point shots is penetration," Casey said. "When you can't touch anybody, you are going to give up penetration. But these are hard conversations."

WHERE AND WHEN the trajectory levels out and 3-pointers are no longer a growth commodity in the NBA is unknown. The league could soon see a day when more than 50% of attempted shots are fired from beyond the arc, or it could see the advent of creative defenses led by a generation of players who can stem the tide. Just as likely, those who govern the NBA may believe that reining in the 3-pointer is a solution in search of a problem.

Given the 50% premium for a shot that's rarely 50% more difficult, getting players to wean themselves off 3-pointers wouldn't come without some significant changes to the incentive structure

If it wanted to, the NBA could afford defenders more latitude in impeding penetration. At the beginning of the 2018 season, "freedom of movement" was a point of emphasis for game officials, with the intention of almost eliminating any hint of grabbing and arm wraps. The return of handchecking is a non-starter, but finding a happy medium between aggravated assault and a spa day could give NBA defenses a fighting chance to impede today's shot creators. Fans would still be treated to Luka Doncic's unconscionable crossover and step-back 3, but they would also be spared more than five breezy attempts per night from Darius Bazley.

Freeing up big men to zone up however they see fit would add another speed bump in front of drivers and slashers. If the center wants to patrol the paint in a "perma-drop" scheme, that's the defense's prerogative. My ESPN colleague Kirk Goldsberry has a bevy of interesting suggestions, ranging from custom lines to getting rid of the short corner 3.

A more radical proposal from a longtime league power broker who wishes to remain anonymous (unless the idea gains traction) would curb inflation by limiting supply: Cap the amount of 3-pointers a team can take over the course of a game.

Over the first 42 minutes of the game, each team would have the chance to attempt 20 shots from beyond the arc that would count for three points. Once an offense runs out of those 20 attempts, it can keep shooting from behind the line, but each subsequent make would count for only two points -- until the 6:00 mark of the fourth quarter, when attempts would once again worth three points until the game is over. The 3-ball is still the most reliable and entertaining way for teams to mount comebacks at all levels of basketball, so it's smart to showcase them at the game's most dramatic moments.

Under these rules, an offense would need to be strategic and selective with its 3s. Use up all your attempts before halftime and you'll have trouble keeping the opposing defense honest. Leaving a shooter open in the corner is far less punitive when it costs only two points. Every impulse attempt used by Antetokounmpo is one fewer for Bryn Forbes (45.6%) or Khris Middleton (43.6%). For the first time in years, offenses would be forced to truly discriminate between good, average and bad 3-point looks.

The reform would also encourage every kind of player to broaden his skill set. For the past 15 years, big men have been told they need to learn to expand their range. Under the new rule, unidimensional shooters would need to pick up some new tricks to stay on the floor. No one should want to see less of the Damian Lillard and Steph Curry half-court show from Sunday's All-Star Game. But the value of parking a 35% 3-point shooter in the corner to maximize a middle pick-and-roll would plummet, as offenses would have to grow more creative if they want to truly stretch a defense or force a rotation.

A successful league remains in a constant state of vigilance about the character of its product and the path of its trends. Scoring, and the 3-pointer in particular, revitalized NBA basketball at some of its most precarious moments when it threatened to fall behind the NHL, then again two decades later when it lost its aesthetic appeal. But uniformity presents its own risk. The more times you witness a phenomenon, the less phenomenal it is.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 09, 2021, 03:08:03 PM
Of our one years, who amongst Rose, Rivers, Bullock, Burks, Payton, Noels, Gibson might be in play.  Who has made a case for a second look come summer.


ALL

But with Rivers if they dont PICK UP the pact he will likely be elsewhere (read:  he wouldnt want to rework his deal)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 09, 2021, 03:11:48 PM
Well, both were garage sales, both were cheap, both ARE placeholders.  Who knows if they come back next fall.


Burks got 6 mil guaranteed

Bullock - 4,2 mil non guaranteed (1 mil)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 09, 2021, 07:49:44 PM
We got Bullock on a discount because we let him rehab here last year. His original number was 8. Both he and Burks are bargains who’d be hard to replace.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 09, 2021, 09:27:13 PM
8?

4.25 is the most he has ever made.

Initial 8.2 mil - for TWO years - is what he is playing out this year.-

Burks made more in 2 years than Reggie his entire career - and is easily the better talent. 

Title: Agent provocateur
Post by: carlos123 on March 09, 2021, 09:52:23 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on March 09, 2021, 09:27:13 PM
8?

4.25 is the most he has ever made.

Initial 8.2 mil - for TWO years - is what he is playing out this year.-

Burks made more in 2 years than Reggie his entire career - and is easily the better talent.

Chamaco insisting on this just to trigger BoZ.

Interesting!

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3djpDj5R3usgpxd1Sr8zN3BbN1hKxlP-HMmOro58REA3IDQV9wVAjPDf9cxaZeEHVb1GYx8t9lalNzlBu3-MZAA2Z9LTvzpqHaHfV1up8cRm4Z7QXXwzsPbY6WII_H14Sy-FKLEgH7-Of5EpbHN5V0h=w626-h570-no?authuser=0)
... I think the target when he said this was Chip, or maybe all of us.

Then he goes to 8chan and tells them he owns the libs 🤪
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 09, 2021, 10:17:33 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on March 09, 2021, 09:27:13 PM
8?

4.25 is the most he has ever made.

Initial 8.2 mil - for TWO years - is what he is playing out this year.-

Burks made more in 2 years than Reggie his entire career - and is easily the better talent.

Not 8. 2 year 21 mil before discovering the injury.

http://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2845797-reggie-bullock-knicks-agree-to-revised-2-year-contract-worth-less-than-47m.amp.html (http://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2845797-reggie-bullock-knicks-agree-to-revised-2-year-contract-worth-less-than-47m.amp.html)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 09, 2021, 10:36:54 PM
TyH > Bullox/Burks.
The right play was to draft TyH and Quickly.
Revamp our entire backcourt.  Shooters and ballhandlers.
I was calling for TyH and a late PG most of the pre-draft.

I didn't know about Quix, but there were a handful of PG's expected to be around our late round pick.  Kira ended up going fairly high (#13), but Quickly, Pritchard, Flynn, Maledon were all options.  Haven't seen Malachi, but his numbers are horrendous.  Pritch is tough and a strong shooter; Maledon has some nice tools. 
But Knix hit well with Quickly.  His 3's and floater much better than expected. a knack for drawing fouls, etc.

Otherwise, maybe kiid can call into talk radio and explain to Thibs that Alec "6 teams in 3 years" Burks is clearly a better talent than Bullocks and should start.
Since his reasoning is so persuasive.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 09, 2021, 10:50:39 PM
Who plays more games the next three years, Haliburton or KP?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 10, 2021, 12:55:35 AM
Otherwise, maybe kiid can call into talk radio and explain to Thibs that Alec "6 teams in 3 years" Burks is clearly a better talent than Bullocks and should start.
Since his reasoning is so persuasive.

Burks scoring/passing a better fit for the second unit. 

I like Reggie.  But certainly want an upgrade if one is available at our price.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 10, 2021, 12:59:22 AM
Hypothetically if we dealt for Beal Wiz would surely take Burks over Bullock - and then hope to re-sign him.
Title: DO NO HARM [March 25]
Post by: chipstern on March 10, 2021, 08:15:28 AM
More nonsense. 

"Devin Booker wants to force a trade to the Knicks."

The "evidence" is that he a Kentucky alumnus and has close relationships with Leon Rose and World Wide Wes. 

$29,467,800   $31,650,600   $33,833,400   $36,016,200

Numbers from his recent max out contract. 

More so than even Chris Paul or DeAndre Ayton, he is the face of the Suns franchise. 

His consistency on every level has been exemplary.  Last season he tallied 26.6 ppg, 4.2 rebounds and 6.5 assists.  This season, with the ball in his hands less due to the presence of General Paul, he is putting up 24.9, 3.6, 4.4

He has a great young coach in Monty Williams and a bona fide mentor superstar leader in Chris Paul who have helped transform the Suns into a 24-11 team, having lived through 23, 24, 21, 19 win seasons, rising to 34-39 under Williams in Monty's first season, and coming off an ass kicking run in the Bubble. 

Yes, Knicks fans, NY has achieved a level of competitive respectability and is surely becoming a more attrative option for a higher class of player. 

But just because Booker went to Kentucky and has good relations with Rose and WWW [as did Chris Paul], just because Stephen A. petitioned Dame Lilliard to force his way to NYC, just because WWW has purportedly whispered to Bradley Beal that he should request a trade, just because the Bulls are notoriously cheap and Zach Levine's $19,500,000 contract ends in 2022, DOES NOT MEAN THEY ARE GOING TO FORCE THEIR WAY TO THE KNICKS.  Remember how the Knicks signing Johhym Bryant and Walt Perrin was supposed to trigger Donovan Mitchell's Hejira from the Jazz?  Come on people. 

Hey, I have my Kawhi Wet Dream, as he has an opt out this summer, and that my friends is a MAX Player. 

But seriously, Chip, Kawhi is a Los Angeles baby....that's his HOME. Could he grow frustrated with the Clips if they fall short again?  Sure.  But the Knicks?  Be still my heart. 

Knicks VP of Basketball and Strategic Planning Brock Aller was a key player--purportedly--in countering Thibs' desire to offload the likes of RJ and Mitch in search of veterans, and overpaying for FAs, choosing to go all in on one year-modestly priced-make good contracts.  Yes, the Knicks are supposed to have put in a bid on Gordon Hayward, one would guess at $25 x 4, but when Charlotte went $30 X 4, the Knicks demurred; and Brock is purported to have resisted big numbers for Bogdonavich and Morris. 

One might also conclude that in drafting Obi, Randle was on the clock.

Well, Julius, RJ and Mitchell are a core of solid players moving forward, and Payne & WWW's fervent advocacy for Quickley has given us a Lou Williams talent, maybe better, moving forward. 

Devin Booker?

Give me a break.  I do not see him behaving in a James Harden manner now that all of his hard work is paying off in Phoenix.

Booker?  Beal?

As ALAN HAHN has made plain, think a James Harden package of draft picks and assets Knicks fans.  Kevin and Frank?  Ha.  Try RJ and Obi to start.  TO START. 

What moves if any the Knicks make by March 25 will prove a telling marker as to how we proceed forward. 

Be interesting to see if Aller/Perry offload any of our one years, let alone Kevin and/or Frank, in pursuit of draft picks, 2-for-1s, garabge sales. 

THIBS has us growing.  THIBS has us defending.  THIBS has us competing.  THIBS has fostered great chemistry, no nonsense accountability, and an infectious work ethic. 

I do not see the Knicks growing weak in the knees over any shiny objects, or cashing in attrractive trade pawns such as Payton, Bullock or Burks given THIBS' trust in them as rotation players, and the remote prospect of getting back anything better than some second rounders. 

Let alone not rocking the boat in our second half push for a playoff berth. 

Anyway, every time I Google Knicks News, someone is passing off their absurd wet dreams as rumors. 

Neither Devin, nor Dame, nor Bradley are on their way.  Thank You. 

My LAST WORD On This. 

Promise. 
Title: Brock Of Ages [ALLER In]
Post by: chipstern on March 10, 2021, 08:50:56 AM
https://www.thestrick.land/strick/measured-objective-portrait-knicks-vp-strategy-brock-aller (https://www.thestrick.land/strick/measured-objective-portrait-knicks-vp-strategy-brock-aller)


Title: Where would the Blazers be...
Post by: lesterluv on March 10, 2021, 09:15:31 AM
...without Enes the Crunchtime Defensive Menace!

https://streamable.com/hercjt (https://streamable.com/hercjt)

Looks like you can play Kanter.
Enes Kanter has filled in nicely in the 23 games since center Jusuf Nurkic was sidelined by a broken wrist in mid-January, averaging 12.9 points and 13.4 rebounds while playing high-effort defense as a starter. One of his best moments of the season came in the closing moments of Portland’s final win over the first half of the season. Trailing Sacramento 108-105 late in the fourth, Kanter played a huge role in four straight defensive stops.
Kanter has long been criticized for his defense, and many years ago ex-Thunder head coach Billy Donovan was caught on the sidelines saying, “Can’t play Kanter.” In some situations, that’s true. But Kanter always tries as hard as he can.

Unselfishness runs through Kanter’s veins, and he brings the same mentality on offense. On a team full of scorers and shooters, he is the immovable object who gives Damian Lillard space to author brilliant moments; he’s the bruiser inside creating second chances on the boards. Kanter has his flaws, but he epitomizes what it means to be a team player. The depleted Trail Blazers are finding out that can lead to a lot of regular-season wins.
https://www.theringer.com/nba/2021/3/8/22319031/nba-power-rankings-midseason-brooklyn-nets
Title: Re: Where would the Blazers be...
Post by: chipstern on March 10, 2021, 11:13:31 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on March 10, 2021, 09:15:31 AM
...without Enes the Crunchtime Defensive Menace!

https://streamable.com/hercjt (https://streamable.com/hercjt)

Looks like you can play Kanter.
Enes Kanter has filled in nicely in the 23 games since center Jusuf Nurkic was sidelined by a broken wrist in mid-January, averaging 12.9 points and 13.4 rebounds while playing high-effort defense as a starter. One of his best moments of the season came in the closing moments of Portland’s final win over the first half of the season. Trailing Sacramento 108-105 late in the fourth, Kanter played a huge role in four straight defensive stops.
Kanter has long been criticized for his defense, and many years ago ex-Thunder head coach Billy Donovan was caught on the sidelines saying, “Can’t play Kanter.” In some situations, that’s true. But Kanter always tries as hard as he can.

Unselfishness runs through Kanter’s veins, and he brings the same mentality on offense. On a team full of scorers and shooters, he is the immovable object who gives Damian Lillard space to author brilliant moments; he’s the bruiser inside creating second chances on the boards. Kanter has his flaws, but he epitomizes what it means to be a team player. The depleted Trail Blazers are finding out that can lead to a lot of regular-season wins.
https://www.theringer.com/nba/2021/3/8/22319031/nba-power-rankings-midseason-brooklyn-nets

Thank you. 

Ladies and gentlemen, your Portland Knicks. 

PS: Funny we got Enes and Doug McDermott and the #2 we used to pick Mitchell in exchange for Melo.  Then exchanged Doug for Emmanuel Mudiay as part of Steve Mills/Devoid Fizdale's master plan to stifle the evolution of Frank Ntilikina's development, while Devoid decided Enes nightly double double wasn't worthy of minutes.  Now McD is providing the Pacers with productive minutes at the 3-spot, while Enes and Melo doing likewise for the Blazers.  Mitchell as an enduring Knicks asset/cornerstone a miracle of dumb luck.
Title: Meanwhile
Post by: chipstern on March 10, 2021, 11:28:25 AM
Meyers Leonard claims he didn't know calling someone a kike bitch on a live ZOOM gaming confab could be construed as being bigoted and racially insensitive.  I keed, I keed. 

Somehow I don't think we will be claiming Fort Meyers when he comes up for grabs on the waiver wire. 

Like many racial epithets that have come down through history, the origins are often innocent, though through useage they become heinous. 

Calling someone a wop?

On Ellis Island, when Italian immigrants arrived, often without any documentation, save in perhaps a family Bible, customs officers dubbed them with the short hand for With Out Papers. 

Caling someone a Mick or a Kike?

Was short form for the preponderence of prefixes or suffixes in Irish or Jewish names, such as McHugh, McTavish, McCormick, etcetera. 

As for the N-Word. Well....let us count the ways. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/style/longterm/books/chap1/nigger.htm (https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/style/longterm/books/chap1/nigger.htm)

That gets complex.  You can trace it back to the Latin for black. 

Niggardly (noun: niggard) is an adjective meaning "stingy" or "miserly". It is derived from the Middle English word nigard, which is probably derived from Old Norse nigla, meaning "to be poor", which itself is most likely derived from hnøggr ("stingy").

It all comes down to context and useage, but any way you slice it, THEM'S BE FIGHTING WORDS. 

Lenny Bruce famously confronted his audience by chanting the N-Word repreatedly, over and over and over....commenting as an epilogue, that perhaps if we use it often enough, through useage, through over-useage, through becoming commonplace, it will lose its power to hurt a little black school girl in Alabama. 

Or, perhaps not. 

PS: Meyers Leonard just effectively signed his own letter of exile from pro basketball. 

PPS: Speaking of dipshits, Johnny "Curt Schilling Lite" Damon was stopped by cops in Florida dirinv with blood alchohol levels four times the legal limit.  He and his wife tussled with cops, Damon asserting he was very much pro-police, surely a solid defense for driving while smashed out of one's skull, and that he was being persecuted for being a Trump Supporter...oh such a cross to bear. 
Title: Re: Where would the Blazers be...
Post by: facilitatorn on March 10, 2021, 01:50:25 PM
Quote from: chipstern on March 10, 2021, 11:13:31 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on March 10, 2021, 09:15:31 AM
...without Enes the Crunchtime Defensive Menace!

https://streamable.com/hercjt (https://streamable.com/hercjt)

Looks like you can play Kanter.
Enes Kanter has filled in nicely in the 23 games since center Jusuf Nurkic was sidelined by a broken wrist in mid-January, averaging 12.9 points and 13.4 rebounds while playing high-effort defense as a starter. One of his best moments of the season came in the closing moments of Portland’s final win over the first half of the season. Trailing Sacramento 108-105 late in the fourth, Kanter played a huge role in four straight defensive stops.
Kanter has long been criticized for his defense, and many years ago ex-Thunder head coach Billy Donovan was caught on the sidelines saying, “Can’t play Kanter.” In some situations, that’s true. But Kanter always tries as hard as he can.

Unselfishness runs through Kanter’s veins, and he brings the same mentality on offense. On a team full of scorers and shooters, he is the immovable object who gives Damian Lillard space to author brilliant moments; he’s the bruiser inside creating second chances on the boards. Kanter has his flaws, but he epitomizes what it means to be a team player. The depleted Trail Blazers are finding out that can lead to a lot of regular-season wins.
https://www.theringer.com/nba/2021/3/8/22319031/nba-power-rankings-midseason-brooklyn-nets

Thank you. 

Ladies and gentlemen, your Portland Knicks. 

PS: Funny we got Enes and Doug McDermott and the #2 we used to pick Mitchell in exchange for Melo.  Then exchanged Doug for Emmanuel Mudiay as part of Steve Mills/Devoid Fizdale's master plan to stifle the evolution of Frank Ntilikina's development, while Devoid decided Enes nightly double double wasn't worthy of minutes.  Now McD is providing the Pacers with productive minutes at the 3-spot, while Enes and Melo doing likewise for the Blazers.  Mitchell as an enduring Knicks asset/cornerstone a miracle of dumb luck.

Both players finally got into basketball shape after their disappointing tenures in NY.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 10, 2021, 01:50:56 PM
Sooo....

Hall of Fame discussion today

Are they or aren't they?

Bosh
T Hardaway
B Wallace
M Cooper
Webber
Title: Re: DO NO HARM [March 25]
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 10, 2021, 02:00:34 PM
Quote from: chipstern on March 10, 2021, 08:15:28 AM
More nonsense. 

"Devin Booker wants to force a trade to the Knicks."

The "evidence" is that he a Kentucky alumnus and has close relationships with Leon Rose and World Wide Wes. 

$29,467,800   $31,650,600   $33,833,400   $36,016,200

Numbers from his recent max out contract. 

More so than even Chris Paul or DeAndre Ayton, he is the face of the Suns franchise. 

His consistency on every level has been exemplary.  Last season he tallied 26.6 ppg, 4.2 rebounds and 6.5 assists.  This season, with the ball in his hands less due to the presence of General Paul, he is putting up 24.9, 3.6, 4.4

He has a great young coach in Monty Williams and a bona fide mentor superstar leader in Chris Paul who have helped transform the Suns into a 24-11 team, having lived through 23, 24, 21, 19 win seasons, rising to 34-39 under Williams in Monty's first season, and coming off an ass kicking run in the Bubble. 

Yes, Knicks fans, NY has achieved a level of competitive respectability and is surely becoming a more attrative option for a higher class of player. 

But just because Booker went to Kentucky and has good relations with Rose and WWW [as did Chris Paul], just because Stephen A. petitioned Dame Lilliard to force his way to NYC, just because WWW has purportedly whispered to Bradley Beal that he should request a trade, just because the Bulls are notoriously cheap and Zach Levine's $19,500,000 contract ends in 2022, DOES NOT MEAN THEY ARE GOING TO FORCE THEIR WAY TO THE KNICKS.  Remember how the Knicks signing Johhym Bryant and Walt Perrin was supposed to trigger Donovan Mitchell's Hejira from the Jazz?  Come on people. 

Hey, I have my Kawhi Wet Dream, as he has an opt out this summer, and that my friends is a MAX Player. 

But seriously, Chip, Kawhi is a Los Angeles baby....that's his HOME. Could he grow frustrated with the Clips if they fall short again?  Sure.  But the Knicks?  Be still my heart. 

Knicks VP of Basketball and Strategic Planning Brock Aller was a key player--purportedly--in countering Thibs' desire to offload the likes of RJ and Mitch in search of veterans, and overpaying for FAs, choosing to go all in on one year-modestly priced-make good contracts.  Yes, the Knicks are supposed to have put in a bid on Gordon Hayward, one would guess at $25 x 4, but when Charlotte went $30 X 4, the Knicks demurred; and Brock is purported to have resisted big numbers for Bogdonavich and Morris. 

One might also conclude that in drafting Obi, Randle was on the clock.

Well, Julius, RJ and Mitchell are a core of solid players moving forward, and Payne & WWW's fervent advocacy for Quickley has given us a Lou Williams talent, maybe better, moving forward. 

Devin Booker?

Give me a break.  I do not see him behaving in a James Harden manner now that all of his hard work is paying off in Phoenix.

Booker?  Beal?

As ALAN HAHN has made plain, think a James Harden package of draft picks and assets Knicks fans.  Kevin and Frank?  Ha.  Try RJ and Obi to start.  TO START. 

What moves if any the Knicks make by March 25 will prove a telling marker as to how we proceed forward. 

Be interesting to see if Aller/Perry offload any of our one years, let alone Kevin and/or Frank, in pursuit of draft picks, 2-for-1s, garabge sales. 

THIBS has us growing.  THIBS has us defending.  THIBS has us competing.  THIBS has fostered great chemistry, no nonsense accountability, and an infectious work ethic. 

I do not see the Knicks growing weak in the knees over any shiny objects, or cashing in attrractive trade pawns such as Payton, Bullock or Burks given THIBS' trust in them as rotation players, and the remote prospect of getting back anything better than some second rounders. 

Let alone not rocking the boat in our second half push for a playoff berth. 

Anyway, every time I Google Knicks News, someone is passing off their absurd wet dreams as rumors. 

Neither Devin, nor Dame, nor Bradley are on their way.  Thank You. 

My LAST WORD On This. 

Promise.

I still call BS, as you provide no documentation that Thibs favored dealing Barret and/or Robinson.
Title: Thibodeau Vs. Aller [by Yaron Weitzman/NY POST]
Post by: chipstern on March 10, 2021, 04:50:04 PM
https://nypost.com/2021/03/09/how-leon-rose-rebuilt-the-knicks-an-inside-look/ (https://nypost.com/2021/03/09/how-leon-rose-rebuilt-the-knicks-an-inside-look/)

It didn’t take long for Thibodeau to begin angling for roster upgrades.

“I think, as a head coach, the only thing you want is a voice,” he said in September. “I’ve known Leon and Wes for a long time, so they’ve asked my opinion on a number of things. Doesn’t mean that they’re always going to do what I ask them to do, but I think there’s a trust factor there.”

He pleaded for Rose to offer long-term deals to free agents such as Gordon Hayward, Marcus Morris and Bogdan Bogdanovic. He wanted to trade for Derrick Rose, a longtime favorite of his. He thought RJ Barrett and Mitchell Robinson could potentially be flipped for seasoned veterans. Initially, he was hardly sold on Julius Randle, according to a colleague.

“There’s no rebuilding or long term with Thibs,” a former colleague said.

Aller, however, wanted to do exactly that. He thought the Knicks should target second-tier veterans like Austin Rivers and Alec Burks with one-year deals — and then during the season try flipping them for future draft picks. He wanted future cap space preserved. He believed current cap space should be used to harvest other team’s poor contracts in exchange for additional picks.

Despite Thibodeau’s pleas, the Knicks left most of their cap space unused. They signed Rivers and Burks and Nerlens Noel to one-year deals. They didn’t give out long-term contracts or trade away any young players or chase the aging Russell Westbrook after he requested a trade. They took veteran big man Ed Davis from the Timberwolves, flipped him to the Utah Jazz — and received one future second-round pick on the front end and two on the back. Rose handed Thibodeau a roster that entering the season was $8 million below the league’s salary floor, believing that his longtime friend could mold it into a group that competed every game.
Title: Be Ess
Post by: bodiddley on March 10, 2021, 05:57:26 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on March 10, 2021, 02:00:34 PM

I still call BS, as you provide no documentation that Thibs favored dealing Barret and/or Robinson.

https://uwaterloo.ca/news/media/research-shows-people-who-bs-are-more-likely-fall-bs (https://uwaterloo.ca/news/media/research-shows-people-who-bs-are-more-likely-fall-bs)
Title: Re: Be Ess
Post by: carlos123 on March 10, 2021, 07:00:52 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 10, 2021, 05:57:26 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on March 10, 2021, 02:00:34 PM

I still call BS, as you provide no documentation that Thibs favored dealing Barret and/or Robinson.

https://uwaterloo.ca/news/media/research-shows-people-who-bs-are-more-likely-fall-bs (https://uwaterloo.ca/news/media/research-shows-people-who-bs-are-more-likely-fall-bs)

Which proves that Chamaco is an easily duped bullshitter 😁💩

Well done BoZ!!!

Ah, but he thinks he owns the libs 😂🤣
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 10, 2021, 11:31:37 PM
KZ had a big 2nd half as Mavs came back form a 7 point halftime deficit.
28 & 14 on good (11-17) shooting for the game.
Also played good interior defense, altering a number of shots.
Of course, KZ no doubt benefits from having a number of days off.
But he looked good on both ends.
Seemed to have a blah 1st half, but I tuned in mid 2Q.

Yeah, watching some of the best athletes in the world chuck low % 3-point shots is boring.  And it's expanded so now nearly everyone on the roster launches 3-pointers.   Mavs game had Finney-Smith shoot 4 3's and make 1.  Yawn.
DAL was 13-40 on 3's, nearly half their 83 FG's.
When a team shoots more than 40% of their FG's form 3 it's a snooze.  When it hits 50% it's criminally dull.

My other main complaint NBA-wise involves all the baby rules such as flagrant and clear-path fouls, and their implementation.  Which often result in excessive  lengthy reviews.

The new commercials in between FT's are hideous, as though FT's weren't bad enough.  Whatever station I caught the Mavs game on, they had a picture in picture small box replay of a basket while the ball was being inbounded.  It took me a little to get used to, but it was a nice way to slip in some very quick turnaround replays before the next play developed.  If not overused, it seemed like a nice addition.
Greg Anthony was the color commentator and did a solid job.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 10, 2021, 11:33:31 PM
The Knicks have the fifth-toughest schedule remaining in the league

Knix last in the league in hockey assists.
Not too surprising since we have a sub-par offense, limited PG's and you get more assists when you shoot a good %.  Also, the slow pace (though we seem to be getting more steals and transition hoops lately)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 11, 2021, 08:16:30 AM
A reminder of where we were at:

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/knicks-interested-in-gordon-hayward-after-34-million-opt-out

That Thibs has made this all work out with "lesser: additions is testament to HIM - and to the players buying in - not to some grand plan to not want Hayward or Westbrook (or Bertans for that matter)

Knicks stance of from the jump not wishing to, being willing to "overpay" should be stated - but not in the confines of "we didnt want to add those guys".

Have a nice day.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 11, 2021, 09:50:25 AM
So....

do we want Aldridge?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 11, 2021, 10:01:36 AM
Salary match for LMA is 24 mil. 

15% trade kicker - not sure how that plays in.

I think Knicks could get him for Frank and or Knox and pick(s) using. their current allotted space

Of course I think there will be other bidders.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 11, 2021, 10:04:33 AM
No. Having another big man who can shoot would surely be nice, but the defensive downside is tremendous, and we def don't need anything else impinging on Toppin minutes. No.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 11, 2021, 12:11:27 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on March 09, 2021, 03:05:20 PM
Quote from: elephant on March 09, 2021, 01:37:12 PM
https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/31027277/nba-insiders-say-all-3s-reaching-critical-mass (https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/31027277/nba-insiders-say-all-3s-reaching-critical-mass)

I can't access this article but its headline intrigued me.

You can't compete anymore unless you have a bevy of three-point shooters. Common knowledge. But here's the thing — and I think Bo once talked about this — this shit is turning boring.

When a Knick makes a three? Cool! But in general, truth is, it's often a mechanical and tedious thing to watch. Three-point robots, standing in their spot, waiting for the ball to be kicked their way.

Where's the art and athleticism in that?

The piece:


A COUPLE OF WEEKS back, the Milwaukee Buck.......

Hey, thanks for this.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 11, 2021, 12:20:06 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on March 10, 2021, 01:50:56 PM
Sooo....

Hall of Fame discussion today

Are they or aren't they?

Bosh
T Hardaway
B Wallace
M Cooper
Webber

When I think of them, I think...all really good players.

Hall of famers?

No.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 11, 2021, 12:56:55 PM
MALIK MONK watch

Last 6

22 PPG
4 boards
2 assists

46-92    .500
20-50    .400
20-27     .740

Season

46/44/79

PER 14.4 (up for 3rd straight season)

https://www.aseaofblue.com/2021/3/1/22306534/malik-monk-stats-hornets-kings

https://www.nba.com/hornets/malik-monk-details-breakout-season-more-nba-recognition-lamelo-ball

But you like Knox - thats OK
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 11, 2021, 01:08:49 PM
I'd like Ben Wallace to get in.
Defense is underpraised.
4x he was the best defender in the league.
Was a dominant defender, rebounder, shotblocker.
Had more career blocks than fouls!

Maybe the best undrafted player ever.
I guess the knock is his DET stint was just 6 years (and then just one good year on CHI).
And his FT shooting was terrible.  And he barely scored.  But for a half dozen years or so he was a great defender.

One of five players in NBA history to lead the NBA in rebounding and blocking averages in the same season
(along with Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Bill Walton, Hakeem Olajuwon, and Dwight Howard).
One of three players in NBA history to average 15 rebounds and 3 blocks per game over a season
(along with Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Bob McAdoo).

The rest of those guys I think are borderline cases.
Webber has college going for him along with his post-NBA broadcasting career.
Bosh was likely heading to Springfiled but got derailed by blood clots.
I'm glad to see Cooper get recognition as he was a helluva defender and great team player.
Hardaway was a tough mofo, a real competitor.

If I had to choose 2, I'd take Wallace and Bosh.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 11, 2021, 01:21:22 PM
Quote from: elephant on March 11, 2021, 12:11:27 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on March 09, 2021, 03:05:20 PM
Quote from: elephant on March 09, 2021, 01:37:12 PM
https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/31027277/nba-insiders-say-all-3s-reaching-critical-mass (https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/31027277/nba-insiders-say-all-3s-reaching-critical-mass)

I can't access this article but its headline intrigued me.

You can't compete anymore unless you have a bevy of three-point shooters. Common knowledge. But here's the thing — and I think Bo once talked about this — this shit is turning boring.

When a Knick makes a three? Cool! But in general, truth is, it's often a mechanical and tedious thing to watch. Three-point robots, standing in their spot, waiting for the ball to be kicked their way.

Where's the art and athleticism in that?

The piece:


A COUPLE OF WEEKS back, the Milwaukee Buck.......

Hey, thanks for this.

No problem

I get ESPN+ mostly for collegiate baseball and soccer.  Recently I see they have the G League as well.
Title: Nitrease Quickley & Immanuel Quickley
Post by: chipstern on March 11, 2021, 02:08:06 PM
(https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/03/quickley-33.jpg?quality=90&strip=all&w=1280)

Moms & Her Pup

(https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/03/quickley-32.jpg?quality=90&strip=all&w=640)

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 11, 2021, 07:45:25 PM
Trouble with our talent pipeline:
https://www.espn.in/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/31046304/disappointed-john-calipari-rues-kentucky-inability-get-fully-engaged-push-ncaa-bid
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 11, 2021, 08:57:34 PM
Justin Terminy AGHAST at Porzingis and Doncic sitting tonight

Cant say I blame him
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 11, 2021, 10:48:25 PM
Absolutely no one gives a f...
Title: A question for my doggie
Post by: carlos123 on March 11, 2021, 11:55:52 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on March 11, 2021, 10:48:25 PM
Absolutely no one gives a f...

Hey Les, are you implying that nobody gives a f... about:

A) Justin Termini.
B) Chamaco Cartero.
C) Both.

In my case, the answer would be C).
Title: Coming Back Down To Earth
Post by: chipstern on March 12, 2021, 10:52:02 AM
The Bucks were laying in the weeds for us.

Revenge is sweet or words to that effect. 

Nice game plan.  Totally neutralized Julius. 

Onwards.

See if Thibs has us ready.  OKC is no joke. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 12, 2021, 11:03:57 AM
Schedule got tougher...

Knix started off scoring 16 points in the first 5 mins.
Lopez offered no rim protection on 3 drives.
Then Bucks got a run going and Lopez finally came over and blocked a shot right at mid 1Q
(5:50 mark or so).  The difference was the primary defender stuck around, so Lopez was doubling. 
Anti-Giannis was guarding Randle, a smart move, but pulled him away from the rim. 
So it was up to Lopez to rim-protect. (he finished with 5 blocks)

Bucks run off 10 straight for a 22-16 lead.  Next Knick possession -- an Elf corner 3.  Clank.  Kinda deflating.  Then Lopez broke up an oop attempt for Noel, leading to a Buck transition hoop.  Er.

Down 9 early 2Q, a Taj 3.  In.  Next Knick possession a Franc 3.  Clank. 
You can see Bucks are being smart about what they allow.  You can live with Elf and Taj corner 3's and a Franc elbow 3.

Randle was just off, never looked comfortable. Some ugly turnovers.
ObiT also with some mental mistakes.

One Clyde mistake.  He blamed Elf for lackadaisical D at the end of the half as DJ Auggie popped a 3.  But what transpired was Greek set a pick, Elf switched on to Giannis, Randle dropped way back.  Giannis passed back to an unguarded DJ, so Elf leaves Giannis and makes a closeout lunge.  DJ resets and shoots as Elf lunges back.  So Elf guarded two guys and made two contest attempts, while Randle sagged almost to the paint to stop a non-existent Giannis drive and stood still guarding no one.  Randle the culprit, Elf with good hustle.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 12, 2021, 02:43:42 PM
If three defenders meet Randle in the lane, he has to pass it up top or to the strong side wing. That didn’t happen at all in the first half which I watched. Things were looking manageable till the starters were put back in to end the half. I had an appointment to practice epee w US world vet team members, so DJ’s shot was the last I saw. Hopefully we have a plan for that type of wall up D. I expect we’ll see it again from teams besides the Bucks.

As someone looking to see the Knicks finish 9th and get a play in, I’m ok w the result.
Title: Fac the Fencer
Post by: carlos123 on March 12, 2021, 10:33:52 PM
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3dGlEFDB2IF_9PIsBAH5E-60-D6kSZBg8QY01H4sBDHGq9Uqyeemqo4-ZLP8kyjacwWQwfNXPmijTd8XNVwPhA3Ud7fvaFBax8rCS6WsJINV9FtrZzsyCe3BNK2HZDA2iRa1GNt_aHr6WZiqEAGeb1k=w767-h575-no?authuser=0)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 12, 2021, 11:24:40 PM
Marc Berman:

Quickley, 21, has yet to start this season. Thibodeau has been hesitant because he likes his point guards to be traditional organizers and top defenders. But Thibodeau may be desperate after Ntilikina’s regression Thursday in Milwaukee, where he went scoreless (0-for-3) in 15 minutes.

Ntilikina's "regression."

What a dick.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 13, 2021, 12:02:25 AM
What does Franc have to do with the starting PG slot?
Am I missing something?

Franc's 0-3 wasn't a big deal, but at the end of the 1Q, Knix were down 8.  Then Quicks hit a 3 with 30 ticks left to cut it to 5.  Knix get a stop.  Franc gets fouled with 0.8 left.  Chance to go into the 2Q down just 3.  And Franc missed both FT's.  That was bad. 

I assume Franc's recent good-shooting on 3's is mostly a mirage.  But when you can get not great outside shooters such as Franc, RJB, Taj (Elf?) close to 35% on 3's, it really helps the team and avoids empty possessions.

There was one play 3Q where Julius ran into a two-man wall and kicked to the corner, but his pass went right to JRue who was guarding the cornerman.
Randle just got really out of sync.  Got picked by Giannis at midcourt; traveled for no reason, the pass directly to JRue, another double team got Randle stumbling and throwing it wildly.  Some days things just don't go right and you can't right it. 
Expect a focused game form Randle v OKC.

I didn't even bother with the 4Q (though might check it out later).
Title: 4Q
Post by: carlos123 on March 13, 2021, 12:11:19 AM
Quote from: BoZizzley on March 13, 2021, 12:02:25 AM

I didn't even bother with the 4Q (though might check it out later).

It ain’t worth it BoZ.

What’s more, I recommend you don’t do it. Just plain depressing, and nothing to see really.
Title: Re: Fac the Fencer
Post by: facilitatorn on March 13, 2021, 12:56:47 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on March 12, 2021, 10:33:52 PM
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3dGlEFDB2IF_9PIsBAH5E-60-D6kSZBg8QY01H4sBDHGq9Uqyeemqo4-ZLP8kyjacwWQwfNXPmijTd8XNVwPhA3Ud7fvaFBax8rCS6WsJINV9FtrZzsyCe3BNK2HZDA2iRa1GNt_aHr6WZiqEAGeb1k=w767-h575-no?authuser=0)

In the sport of vindictive bastards, decisiveness is key.
Title: Re: Fac the Fencer
Post by: carlos123 on March 13, 2021, 01:08:39 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 13, 2021, 12:56:47 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on March 12, 2021, 10:33:52 PM
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3dGlEFDB2IF_9PIsBAH5E-60-D6kSZBg8QY01H4sBDHGq9Uqyeemqo4-ZLP8kyjacwWQwfNXPmijTd8XNVwPhA3Ud7fvaFBax8rCS6WsJINV9FtrZzsyCe3BNK2HZDA2iRa1GNt_aHr6WZiqEAGeb1k=w767-h575-no?authuser=0)

In the sport of vindictive bastards, decisiveness is key.

Kill’em all baby, just kill’em all...
... while remaining a Knicks TPP, #2, no less!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 13, 2021, 01:15:39 AM
Free Frank & move without the ball! Pass and pick away!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 13, 2021, 05:43:33 AM
Trump is encouraging former NFL running back Herschel Walker to run against Sen. Raphael Warnock (D-Ga.).

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 13, 2021, 07:36:20 AM
1:58 left in the 3Q, Quix passes to Randle in the backcourt, for Julius to bring it across.  Why?  I thought we banished that last year.  Is Franc mentoring Quix?
Happens right in front of Ante-Greek ready to check in.
Next Knick possession, Randle gets the rebound and dribbles upcourt himself, and Giannis swoops in and steals it just before Randle crosses halfcourt.
Boo!
Right before that Quick did a lazy Franc pass to Randle at the top of the 3-point arc, which Clyde thought Portis was going to steal.  Quix needs to learn from Rose not Franc.

I watched the 4Q.
Takeaways: some bad Burks D.
At the 3:23 mark, Bucks come down in a 5-on-4 after RJB got his shot blocked.
Taj points out to Burks which guy he should take (Torey Craig rolling towards the hoop).  But somehow Burks doesn't notice that or that Taj is hedging between two Bucks, so Burks heads out towards the 3point shooter (who a late arriving RJB is about to pick up).  So it becomes a 2-on-1 and Craig gets an easy bucket.
Taj left standing there visibly annoyed.
Knick transition D has been ugly all year.  Randle, Burks, RJB the worst offenders.
But there Taj even called out the man Burks should guard, and Knix were reasonably back, just needed to play adequate D for 3 secs until RJB got back into the play.

Taj played real nice D all game.  Just always in the right position.
If you can't spot 2 or 3 Burks defensive miscues a game, you aren't paying enough attention.  And teams go at Burks.  JRue drive baseline, got right near the rim, and just muscled in a layup over Burks.  Middleton hit a pair of midrange late 3Q J's over Burks (not a good matchup for NYK).  Burks has solid on ball effort mostly, but his instincts on rotations and closeouts are usually poor.

Toppings makes some odd plays.
Title: Marc Berman
Post by: chipstern on March 13, 2021, 08:29:22 AM
A front running dick. 

Frank's regression?

How about Julius' "regeression"?

Worst game of the season.

How about IQ's "regeression"?

He missed three foul shots. 
Title: REMOTE POSSIBILITIES [OKC Game]
Post by: chipstern on March 13, 2021, 08:36:11 AM
Not sure where I read it, some notification on my android I think. but consider this scenario for OKC.

Payton and Quickley are listed as DOUBTFUL with certain muscle strains. 

Rivers and Rose and Robinson are listed as OUT.

Which means Regressive Frank could get serious minutes.

Which means that RJ/Burks could pull minutes at the point. 

Which means--yeah, I know, this is remote--that we might even get a JARED HARPER siting. 

The ripple effect on next man up?

More minutes for Burks at SG/PG?.

Meaning Kevin Knox pulling minutes behind Bullock.

Which means--yeah, I know this is remote--that we might even get a IGNATZ BRAZDEKIS siting. 

PS: BoD going Berman one better with some predictable snark about Frank's shooting as a mirage? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 13, 2021, 10:00:57 AM
Thanks for the info, Chip

C'mon, Frank!

Re:  Harper

Not insane to think he could play a 30+ minute contest - see what we have - but likely Ntlikina does get the rock first

WE are at a different level, I know - but OKC just did it with Celts castoff TY JEROME and he has played fairly well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 13, 2021, 10:06:14 AM
My research does show ELF and IMMANUEL as questionable, not doubtful, but we will see

If we are trying to deal Payton we should keep him healthy, I'd think

I am more excited for a sore-groined 40-point effort from IQ than anything Frank and Jared can show.   But if FN is the lead dog, wouldn't you just once like to see him crank it up and look to create for himself for a game's entirety.

Fingers crossed we see something grand - or at least a W.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 13, 2021, 10:08:11 AM
Got to see some of this - and sorry we wont have a shot at this guy

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaabk/top-25-roundup-no-12-oklahoma-state-upends-no-2-baylor/ar-BB1exUer?ocid=uxbndlbing

Best Arthur Fonzarelli voice:

"CUNNINGHAMMMMMM....."
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 13, 2021, 10:09:32 AM
But just for kicks - what of our reserve picks/players are we willing to give up to ascend in the 2021 draft - say......if we get the 16-18 overall?

I know that is a ,long way down the line, but.....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 13, 2021, 10:31:16 AM
Updated Knicks projections from NBAdraft.net


At 18 -

BJ Boston - 6-4 SG     Kentucky  freshman

At 20

Trevion Kinsey - 6-5 SG     Marshall   junior

At 32

DJ Stewart - 6-6 SF      Mississippi State    sophomore

At 46

Abramo Canka - 6-6 SG      Italy    Born 2002  (19 this week)

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 13, 2021, 01:25:38 PM
Quote
The Knicks had the NBA’s easiest first-half schedule (an average opposing Elo of 1481) and are due to face the third-toughest second-half slate (1520 average opposing Elo), behind only the Magic and Spurs.

Depends how you define things.

I've also seen it that the Knicks had the 2nd easiest schedule so far and the 4th toughest upcoming schedule (based I believe on simple W-L records).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 13, 2021, 02:09:09 PM
Looks like Quickley in but Burks should be the key

Pokusevski and Maledon are interesting guys playing OK for Thunder.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 13, 2021, 02:33:34 PM
Knicks being thoroughly embarrassed.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 13, 2021, 03:22:43 PM
Frank COOLERED by Thibodeaux.

You suck, you sit.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 13, 2021, 04:09:56 PM
Ntilikina starts and plays 5 minutes ... yikes!   When he gets his chance he fumbles it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on March 13, 2021, 04:30:18 PM
Quote from: Kam on March 13, 2021, 04:09:56 PM
Ntilikina starts and plays 5 minutes ... yikes!   When he gets his chance he fumbles it.

The operational term being....

Yikes

Sometimes he plays as if he is spooked.
Title: Meanwhile
Post by: chipstern on March 13, 2021, 04:45:34 PM
Julius, RJ, IQ...Burks. 

Yup

JR: 26-12-12.  What a beast. 

RJ: 20 years old.  My GOD, but this kid has stones.  Gettting better and better on every level with every game. His first30+game as a pro with 32 points in 36 minutes on 12-21, 3-6 from trey, 5-7 from the stripe, with 5 boards, 3 assists and 3 steals. Damn.  Ain't that a man. 

IQ: Speaking of stones.  The FLOATER was working again...played with pace and aggression, defense, under control: 21 points on 9-16, with 3 boards, 4 dimes and 2 steals.  Has surely made a case to start, but if I know Thibs, he ain't going to give up on Elfrid with the first unit, nor IQ with Rose, but man, IQ and RJ were clicking. 

Reggie & Burks:  Thibs also really loves Reggie, and his defense was fierce.  Hitting four treys.  Burks missed a bunch, but made some, and Thibs liked him as a fake PG. 

PS: Al Horford is still an excellent NBA Stretch 4-5.  A trade target?  Turning 35 in June?  NO FUCKING WAY: Not at 27 million for this year and the next two.  However, were he to come available via a buyout and vet minimums or Enes Kanter/Nerlens Noel prices?  In a NY Minute. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 13, 2021, 05:02:58 PM
Order restored. It helped we didn’t see SGA today.

For the next piece, let’s go Nuggets!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 13, 2021, 05:38:32 PM
Diallo for Svi and a second rounder. Good move by Detroit.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on March 13, 2021, 06:39:35 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 13, 2021, 05:38:32 PM
Diallo for Svi and a second rounder. Good move by Detroit.

Seriously?

What exactly impresses you about Diallo? 

A lousy three point shooter and a mediocre FT shooter. 

Seems to me like OKC picked their pocket. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 13, 2021, 06:56:16 PM
Diallo has the same per 36 numbers as RJ with a higher EFG despite rarely hitting a three so far in his career. He’s got skills and bounce, averaging 11 & 5 in 23 minutes. Definitely a player to keep an eye on.
Title: Your Portland Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on March 13, 2021, 09:30:30 PM
Top performer today at halftime:

Enes Kanter with 15 points and 6 rebounds.

In second place:

Dame and Melo, 10 points each.

What about that?

PS. Great win by the real Knicks today! Only disappointment Ntilikina. Can't have it all.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 13, 2021, 09:32:23 PM
PS: Al Horford is still an excellent NBA Stretch 4-5.  A trade target?  Turning 35 in June?  NO FUCKING WAY: Not at 27 million for this year and the next two.  However, were he to come available via a buyout and vet minimums or Enes Kanter/Nerlens Noel prices?  In a NY Minute.



hahaaaaaa...

expected you to check in on Al.

Now, we could lose the next three, but if we go 1-2 or dare I say better - we are IN this hunt - and AL HORFORD makes us better

But let him go to LA, sure.  I'd enjoy seeing him compete in the semis.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 13, 2021, 09:37:44 PM
By the way - get the wax out of your ears - 3rd year on Horford is an option
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 13, 2021, 10:37:20 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 13, 2021, 06:56:16 PM
Diallo has the same per 36 numbers as RJ with a higher EFG despite rarely hitting a three so far in his career. He’s got skills and bounce, averaging 11 & 5 in 23 minutes. Definitely a player to keep an eye on.

Funny you should say that, I was thinking that Diallo is a 2nd round version of RJB. 
Diallo young and starting to break out.
Diallo has become a very good rim attacker -- rebounds, defends, plays with energy, starting to pass.

Diallo has done a better job this season of finding teammates when opponents cut off his drives in the half court, accounting for that improved assist rate.
There have been times he has looked downright difficult to stop, including averaging 16.6 PPG, 8.0 RPG and 4.0 APG in five starts.

He's a more valuable player than Svi who has underperformed.
Thing is OKC starts Shai and Dort who aren't 3-point shooters.
And Diallo will be an RFA so will look for some money in the offseason.
Svi is billed as a shooter, which is what everyone wants, but has been off target this year.

I get Insider articles via the ESPN India site.
https://www.espn.in/nba/insider/story/_/id/31054181/trade-grades-wins-thunder-pistons-deal-hamidou-diallo

Zach Lowe a few weeks before the trade:
Quote
Diallo is having a nice season. Once among the league's most frenetic players, he has made more under-control plays like this drive-and-kick. With George Hill, Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, and Theo Maledon all missing snippets of time, we have seen glimpses of Point Hami -- and they have not been terrible! Diallo had 53 assists combined his first two seasons; he has 77 in this one. He's just 22.

Diallo is a solid defender and very good rebounder. He's shooting 29% on 3s, and that's the skill that will make or break his ability to play real minutes on a good team someday.

Hard to know how Diallo will do in the chaos that is DET.
I'm not even sure who is manning the Point for them.
Answer: Delon is back after missing two weeks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 13, 2021, 10:49:08 PM
Maybe Ellington will teach him something about shot prep to further unlock his game.

Al is too old to pay full freight for. Any moves are to enhance the roster for a push that is two years out optimistically. Winning is fine, building culture and developing players are both good things. Sacrificing assets or handcuffing ourselves financially for a better outcome this season is nuts and it ain’t gonna happen.

Love to watch Al. It won’t be happening in a Knicks uniform.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on March 14, 2021, 10:36:13 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 13, 2021, 10:49:08 PM
Maybe Ellington will teach him something about shot prep to further unlock his game.

Al is too old to pay full freight for. Any moves are to enhance the roster for a push that is two years out optimistically. Winning is fine, building culture and developing players are both good things. Sacrificing assets or handcuffing ourselves financially for a better outcome this season is nuts and it ain’t gonna happen.

Love to watch Al. It won’t be happening in a Knicks uniform.

Thank you. 

We wouldn't give Gordon Hayward more that 25 million per, but we're going to give Al 27 million? 

Tell me about the rabbits George.  BROCK ALLER begs to differ.   

And AGAIN....

I LOVES me some Al Horford.

But the idea of going all in on a 35 year old center, when we are really only at the very beginning of our rebuild journey is the type of lame ass move that has kept the Knicks in the shitter for 20 years. 

No buyout?  No waiver wire prices? 

Then NoAl.  Rather, NoEl. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 14, 2021, 12:19:19 PM
We wouldn't give Gordon Hayward more that 25 million per, but we're going to give Al 27 million?


This is false in its incomplete state - as you have been told now a few times.

Knicks wanted G Hayward.

G Hayward wanted Charlotte and Boston wanted a trade rather than an outright free agent leaving.  Going to the Knicks would not have given Hayward the focus he wanted - and sure - if you want to say we would have given him less money - go for it.

But I dont think the top figure Knicks would have gone to has been seen yet in print.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 14, 2021, 12:23:37 PM
No buyout?  No waiver wire prices?

Then NoAl.  Rather, NoEl.

Why on earth would OKC buy Horford out?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on March 15, 2021, 06:13:52 PM
From the Mike Vorkunov at the  athletic:
The list of 2nd-year players 21-and-younger who averaged RJ Barrett’s numbers (25+ min, 16+ pts, 5+ reb, and at least 35% shooting on 3s) since 2000-01: LeBron James, Kevin Durant, Karl-Anthony Towns, Kristaps Porzingis, Brandon Ingram, & Lauri Markkanen.

Not too shabby at all...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 15, 2021, 09:49:10 PM
Knicks hanging in on the strength of Reg Bullock

The you suck, you sit group expands to Burks and Toppin with Frank
Title: Almost a best case scenario
Post by: Kam on March 15, 2021, 10:54:33 PM
I'm not going to call it a moral victory.  BUT that game, national game on ESPN, especially the end of the fourth quarter was one big advertisement for the Thibodeau-Knicks.  Outgunned but not outdone. No quit in this outfit.  And a "what-if" ending you can hang on a missed call.  One small step backwards for the playoff hopes but one big step forward for the future. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 16, 2021, 12:54:56 AM
Good night, as Dallas lost as well.

This kind of game against this kind of competition is great for our development.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 16, 2021, 12:58:44 AM
Reg the Bull showed up.
Was lights out and did a credible job guarding Harden.
Irving whipped out some crazy moves and Quix mostly stuck right with him.
Some of those moves are not really guardable.
Harden sliced Knix up in the PnR.  Very nice bounce passes.

Late in the 1st Half, IQ crosses halfcourt and passes immediately to Randle.  Who proceeds to post up Harden.  Next possession, Randle gets a rebound and starts to dribble upcourt and Harden knocks it off Randle for a turnover.  Need to have the G's bring the ball upcourt, not Randle. 

Knix did a nice job end of 2Q cutting a 16 point lead down to 12.  Getting a couple stops in the last 1:20.

Knix must lead the league in transition/early-offense take fouls.

Randle was getting frustarted and making some 3Q mistakes, so on a missed 3 mid-3Q Randle just banged Green Jeff out of the way and got the O-board and putback.     Even knocked Green out of the game (with a cool 20 points).




Title: NO QUIT
Post by: chipstern on March 16, 2021, 12:26:47 PM
If Durant can ever get healthy and Griffin can stay healthy, the Nyets are a scary prospect.  Too bad Dimwiddie got hurt. 

Harden playing a different role with Nyets than with Houston. Don' t know if BoD recalls but we had an argument some years ago as to whether Harden was a PG or not.  Be that as it may have been, he sure as hell is one now.  Some of his passes in transition were breathtaking.

And Kyrie.  Enigmatic fellow, personality wise...bailing on pressers on one hand, funding scholarships on the other...thought it was cute watching him chat up Thibs on the sideline and getting some smiles out of the dour one. 

On the court?  Don't think I have seen anyone this season where I had a sense of them being so utterly unstoppable.  There was a play on the baseline where IQ was on him, practically in his shorts, good defensive posture and aggression; Kyrie gave him the okeydoke, fell back awkwardly, creating seperation...SWISH. 

And like Kam says, no MORAL VICTORIES, and even with that blown call that rightfully set Julius into a rage, Thibs' charges had no quit in them.  GRINDERS.  And not just gritty, but SMART.  Those defensive stands in the final 30 seconds were epic.  The fact that we were even IN THE GAME, with Harden having an Oscar Robertson-scale triple double, and Irving hittins what, like 3/4 of his shots [13-18], let alone in a position to tie it up and force overtime.  DAMN. 

Hey, even without that blown call, the Nyets won fair and square. 

Frank [+5] couldn't hit the broad side of a barn, but he was tough and in their faces defensively, and got whistled on some pretty questionable calls.  Bullock [+1] was on fire from the opening bell, even if he cooled late, and his defense was exemplary.  Our only pluses on the +/- scale. Well, excuse me, THE CAPTAIN with 33-12-6 and 3 steals. 

IQ was only 6-19 with 2 assists, but he had 21 points and no turnovers while getting schooled by Kyrie, but he never backed down.  Still see him more as a Lou Williams kind of combo than a pure point, but it is still very early.  He COMPETES.  Our Puppy. 

And while no one was looking, no RJ's shot was erratic, but in lieu of that his downhill game was agressive and seemingly unstoppable, as got to the line time after time, and converted 10-of-10.  Roll that around on the tip of your tongue.  21 with 6 boards, 4 assists, a block and a steal.  Another day at the office.  He COMPETES.  Our Puppy. 

(https://img.discogs.com/6KzzC1fsklJBl_TVURLFrX5LQ-8=/fit-in/300x298/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-7117591-1434109835-8809.jpeg.jpg)

And Julius, our Julius.  Ain't that A MAN?

All of this after getting bitch slapped by Milwaukee. 

Other teams have more sheer talent and firepower, but we COMPETE for 48 minutes.  This was the kind of game would have been over by the end of the first quarter by and large for the past 20 years. 

THIBS!
Title: 3 & D Anyone?
Post by: chipstern on March 16, 2021, 12:33:08 PM
Reggie Bullock turns 30 today. 

PS: In Thibs We Trust. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 16, 2021, 12:34:00 PM
The end of the game took forever.
But the Knix ran a clinic on trapping and guarding inbounds plays.
Look like a well-coached team that had practiced such.

Would have been interesting if no foul was called on the Harris trap, as Knix would have had a steal and layup.

Otherwise, that's the first I've seen of Claxton.  Interesting player.  Long and mobile.

Knox needs to watch how RJB uses his body and is physical to get layups to go.

6 min left in the game, RJB is bringing the ball upcourt, as Franc runs to spot up in the corner.  And Kyrie just picks RJ's pocket.  We need to have our PG's bring the ball up.
Title: THANK YOU CHIP - Re: NO QUIT
Post by: carlos123 on March 16, 2021, 02:28:08 PM
Quote from: chipstern on March 16, 2021, 12:26:47 PM
If Durant can ever get healthy and Griffin can stay healthy, the Nyets are a scary prospect.  Too bad Dimwiddie got hurt. 

Harden playing a different role with Nyets than with Houston. Don' t know if BoD recalls but we had an argument some years ago as to whether Harden was a PG or not.  Be that as it may have been, he sure as hell is one now.  Some of his passes in transition were breathtaking.

And Kyrie.  Enigmatic fellow, personality wise...bailing on pressers on one hand, funding scholarships on the other...thought it was cute watching him chat up Thibs on the sideline and getting some smiles out of the dour one. 

On the court?  Don't think I have seen anyone this season where I had a sense of them being so utterly unstoppable.  There was a play on the baseline where IQ was on him, practically in his shorts, good defensive posture and aggression; Kyrie gave him the okeydoke, fell back awkwardly, creating seperation...SWISH. 

And like Kam says, no MORAL VICTORIES, and even with that blown call that rightfully set Julius into a rage, Thibs' charges had no quit in them.  GRINDERS.  And not just gritty, but SMART.  Those defensive stands in the final 30 seconds were epic.  The fact that we were even IN THE GAME, with Harden having an Oscar Robertson-scale triple double, and Irving hittins what, like 3/4 of his shots [13-18], let alone in a position to tie it up and force overtime.  DAMN. 

Hey, even without that blown call, the Nyets won fair and square. 

Frank [+5] couldn't hit the broad side of a barn, but he was tough and in their faces defensively, and got whistled on some pretty questionable calls.  Bullock [+1] was on fire from the opening bell, even if he cooled late, and his defense was exemplary.  Our only pluses on the +/- scale. Well, excuse me, THE CAPTAIN with 33-12-6 and 3 steals. 

IQ was only 6-19 with 2 assists, but he had 21 points and no turnovers while getting schooled by Kyrie, but he never backed down.  Still see him more as a Lou Williams kind of combo than a pure point, but it is still very early.  He COMPETES.  Our Puppy. 

And while no one was looking, no RJ's shot was erratic, but in lieu of that his downhill game was agressive and seemingly unstoppable, as got to the line time after time, and converted 10-of-10.  Roll that around on the tip of your tongue.  21 with 6 boards, 4 assists, a block and a steal.  Another day at the office.  He COMPETES.  Our Puppy. 

And Julius, our Julius.  Ain't that A MAN?

All of this after getting bitch slapped by Milwaukee. 

Other teams have more sheer talent and firepower, but we COMPETE for 48 minutes.  This was the kind of game would have been over by the end of the first quarter by and large for the past 20 years. 

THIBS!

Thank you Chip, once and a while you write PURE POETRY, I'm not trying to be sarcastic, I really mean it, beautiful post to relate a beautiful game.

...the final 30 seconds were epic, pure epic poetry.

So I had to repost the whole of your post. I know this annoys BoZ, sorry but I had to do it, because it deserves to be reposted in its entirety.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 16, 2021, 02:55:44 PM
Harden playing a different role with Nyets than with Houston. Don' t know if BoD recalls but we had an argument some years ago as to whether Harden was a PG or not.  Be that as it may have been, he sure as hell is one now.  Some of his passes in transition were breathtaking.


Good post, I agree.  But this part isnt true.

Waiting for Durant to come back and see if - as Bo says - he wrecks the chemistry/production of this offensive juggernaut

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 16, 2021, 05:17:39 PM
So....

no Embiid, no Simmons tonight?
Title: No Wire Hangers
Post by: chipstern on March 16, 2021, 06:06:48 PM
Opposing team member on Andre Drummond-Julius Randle fit: I don't love it for Randle

Reacting to a report that the Knicks are considering signing Andre Drummond to a multi-year contract, one opposing team questioned Drummond’s fit on the club. “I don’t love it for Randle,” the team said. “Drummond plays close to the rim, so you’re limiting what Randle can do. Long-term, it doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.” – via SportsNet New York
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 16, 2021, 06:18:24 PM
Let me guess - Nets player?

heh
Title: High Five
Post by: chipstern on March 16, 2021, 06:21:15 PM
Thanks Carlos. 

Thibs inspired me. 

Nothing says Knicks basketball or evokes the ghosts of Red Holzman and Dave DeB like DEFENSE. 

PS: Worth noting that Milwaukee bitch slapped us after we started the season by bitch slapping them.  That's what contenders do.  When do we see the Nyets at MSG.  That should be peachy.

PPS: Don't know if anyone noticed it, but when Julius was walked off the court towards the locker room last night, who was there to give him an attaboy, we'll get em next time?  Leon Rose and Scott Perry.  If Aller or Perrin or any of the other PoohBahs were there, I didn't notice, but while we are singing Thibs' praises, let's save a little love for RightOnLeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeOn. 

Meanwhile.  Baby steps, Leon.  Don't over reach.  Fuck Andre Drummond.  That is not a midseason move in any event.  Maybe find a soft landing for Austin.  Perhaps explore one for Frank as well in lieu of a pricey qualifying offer this summer.  OR NOT? 

PPPS: Meanwhile, don't go pissing away cap space on shiny objects.  BoD seems like a nice fellow.  Least ways he bleeds blue & orange.  In lieu of bringing back Reggie for Coach Thibs, let's get him his ideal 3 & D this summer.  Think....KAWHI LEONARD.  Ommmmmmm.  Did I mention how we should not take the Andre Drummond bait?  As you were, Leon.  Kawhi.  A long shot, but hey, stranger things have happenned.
Anyone project Wayward Gordon Hayward in Charlotte?  Ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 16, 2021, 06:23:38 PM
What I've said is the Nets have played better with 2 or their Big 3 out there.
It's just simpler and clearer how to run the offense.
Maybe it's just that all 3 haven't had time together.
But Kyrie, Harden, Durant and Joe Harris together makes for some awfully iffy D.
The Dant out-score'em philosophy has never gotten too far.

I did have money down that Kyrie and Durant weren't going to lead the Nets to the Finals.  But Harden is another thing altogether.  And Harden is playing differently than in HOU.  Running more PnR's and fewer iso plays.  Taking fewer 3's, especially fewer step back 3's.  Passing more.  Going to the rim and FT line less.  Not a complete reinvention, but a definite change.

It's really helped that Bruce Brown and Jeff Green have had career years, and part of that is the gravity of Harden/Kyrie/Durant.  And we'll see how Blake meshes.  A very willing passer, but he slows things down too.

The East is wide open.
Bucks are good but need a closer and have a mediocre bench.
PHI is still dealing with issues.
Both of them better regular season than playoff teams.
BOS & TOR can win a playoff series but don't look like real contenders.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 16, 2021, 06:30:39 PM
Picked my second bracket today, which I do not usually do

Nod to the great "how isnt he in the Hall?" Bob Huggins, WVA over Iowa.

First sheet I went more chalk - Gonzaga to take it all.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 16, 2021, 06:31:55 PM
BOS & TOR Indiana can win a playoff series but don't look like real contenders.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 16, 2021, 06:33:06 PM
Bulldog Drummond is not what the Knix need.
He needs to undergo a Randle conversion to fitness and discipline.

Quote
Referee Scott Foster explained why the travel call was made after the game.

"The defender was deemed to touch the ball but not cause it to be dislodged or loose," he told the pool reporter. "Upon that, when the player alights, he cannot purposely drop the ball or dribble the ball or be first to touch after he dropped the ball."

In its Last Two Minute Report, the NBA said Foster was correct in his ruling.

That's what I thought.  It's different if the ball is knocked loose, but that wasn't the case here.  Randle needed to either shoot or pass.  Kyrie makes some sneaky good defensive plays now and then.

I liked ObiT getting in front of Randle and not letting him get too close to the ref.  Need a big guy to slow down an enraged Big.  A bit of a tricky thing for a rook to have to do, but that showed some maturity and smarts.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 16, 2021, 06:41:59 PM
Bulldog Drummond is not what the Knix need.


Makes us better

For Rivers, Frank and a #2........

I think I'd pull the trigger.

But no extension.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 16, 2021, 06:49:10 PM
Funny he never made his own teams better.

I used to be a Drummond backer.
Too sloppy, too iffy on D.
Needs a mental tuneup.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 16, 2021, 06:51:52 PM
Quiz

Drummond would be Number SEVEN on this list


Name to active leaders in WIN SHARES who have played for the Knicks


The other 6?
Title: Drummond
Post by: chipstern on March 16, 2021, 07:01:14 PM
I am not completely down on Drummond. 

I think on the right team, he could make a solid contribution. 

They Nyets, the Celtics, the Wizards?

Sure. 

The Knicks.

No way. 

Something to explore over the summer? 

Perhaps?  I wouldn't, but wonder what Thibs might think. 

Too one dimensional for Knicks.  Clog the lane.  Poor mesh with Randle. 

Surely not for anything vaguely like the money he will be looking for.  For Kanter money?  Mmmmmmm.

Not a good fit. 

For NOW?

For RIGHT NOW?

Whatsoever our limitations might be, we have....CHEMISTRY. 

Drummond would muck it up. 

Knicks would have to adjsut to him, rather than the other way around. 

In mid-season? 

No thanks. 

Not to mention, Mitchell had won over Thibs when he got hurt.  Doesn't need the ball to make an impact. Neither does Noel. 

Excellent rebounder, but not that fantastic a shot blocker. 

Also, Drummond is a horrific FT shooter, and his total number of attempts has plummeted in the past two seasons. 

Finally, his conditioning is a concern.  Still a young man, and surely a physical presence, but why did both Detroit and Cleveland give up on him?

HELLO. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jerrya on March 16, 2021, 07:03:42 PM
What is going on with Rose...still out tonight.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 16, 2021, 07:27:46 PM
Funny he never made his own teams better.



- heh

better than without him?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 16, 2021, 07:28:21 PM
Quote from: Jerrya on March 16, 2021, 07:03:42 PM
What is going on with Rose...still out tonight.

DERRICK ROSE most likely HAS the COVID virus.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 16, 2021, 08:24:23 PM
OMG - can we put the brakes on with Quickley?

Featured in pregame.....


after going 6-19

Oy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 16, 2021, 08:38:15 PM
Too one dimensional for Knicks. Clog the lane.  Poor mesh with Randle.


This is a sixth grade level of basketball thought
Title: Adventures in Ntilikina
Post by: Kam on March 16, 2021, 09:56:45 PM
Crazy play off a jump ball on the knicks side of the court.  Knicks retain possession Randles spins into two sixers and nearly loses the ball. He manages to find Frank at the three pt line.  Frank thinks its a hot potato and as Taj is at the free throw line extended pointing at Burks at the top of three pt arc Frank fires a pass that hits Taj in his pointing hands.  Taj then gets it to Randle, I think, who shoots it, Frank manages to secure the offensive rebound.  Dribbles in front of the bench on the sideline and passes backwards towards halfcourt and the Philly player easily picks it off.  Then Frank runs back and manages to steal it back.  Burks I think eventually scores on the play.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 16, 2021, 10:28:02 PM
Challenge it
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 16, 2021, 10:35:18 PM
This one was frustrating.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 16, 2021, 10:35:49 PM
And Frank.

(sigh)

The dude is who he is.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 16, 2021, 10:38:05 PM
Tough loss in a game we played well through three quarters.

Tobias Harris is a hell of a scorer when you let him go to his right.

We frustrated the hell out of Simmons though.

Thibs might consider getting Knox in ahead of Obi. Knox seems to have a bit more propensity to make the right play at this point.

Bullock was never out of bounds.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 16, 2021, 10:41:54 PM
Quote from: elephant on March 16, 2021, 10:35:49 PM
And Frank.

(sigh)

The dude is who he is.


An enigma wrapped in a riddle. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 16, 2021, 10:43:50 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 16, 2021, 10:38:05 PM
Tough loss in a game we played well through three quarters.

Bullock was never out of bounds.

And Randle was fouled on the pass.

Why not use the challenge? Worried about challenge percentage won?
Title: Challenge
Post by: carlos123 on March 16, 2021, 10:51:45 PM
Quote from: Kam on March 16, 2021, 10:43:50 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 16, 2021, 10:38:05 PM
Tough loss in a game we played well through three quarters.

Bullock was never out of bounds.

And Randle was fouled on the pass.

Why not use the challenge? Worried about challenge percentage won?

Can you challenge when you have no timeouts left? Then what happens if you lose the challenge?
Title: Re: Challenge
Post by: elephant on March 16, 2021, 11:10:20 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on March 16, 2021, 10:51:45 PM
Quote from: Kam on March 16, 2021, 10:43:50 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 16, 2021, 10:38:05 PM
Tough loss in a game we played well through three quarters.

Bullock was never out of bounds.

And Randle was fouled on the pass.

Why not use the challenge? Worried about challenge percentage won?

Can you challenge when you have no timeouts left? Then what happens if you lose the challenge?

Yeah. If there's a mandatory timeout or the other team calls one.

Which is what happened, no?

https://official.nba.com/rule-no-14-coaches-challenge/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 17, 2021, 12:42:15 AM
Quote from: elephant on March 16, 2021, 10:35:18 PM
This one was frustrating.

SCZERBIAK went nuts.
Title: Re: Challenge
Post by: carlos123 on March 17, 2021, 01:06:05 AM
Quote from: elephant on March 16, 2021, 11:10:20 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on March 16, 2021, 10:51:45 PM
Quote from: Kam on March 16, 2021, 10:43:50 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 16, 2021, 10:38:05 PM
Tough loss in a game we played well through three quarters.

Bullock was never out of bounds.

And Randle was fouled on the pass.

Why not use the challenge? Worried about challenge percentage won?

Can you challenge when you have no timeouts left? Then what happens if you lose the challenge?

Yeah. If there's a mandatory timeout or the other team calls one.

Which is what happened, no?

https://official.nba.com/rule-no-14-coaches-challenge/

Thanks elephant.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 17, 2021, 08:01:42 AM
Breen&Clyde pointed out that there were 8.5 secs left, so need for Bullox to take a desperation style 3.  Reg defended a lot of possessions with 5 fouls the last 6+ mins.

B2B 41 min games for Randle.
Fatigued Knix with a 14 point 4Q.

Thybull, Korkmaz and Scurry led the '6er comeback.
Thybull with 3 blocks and a steal in 18 mins, but it seemed like more.
One steal he reached around and poked the ball away from Randle from behind.  There was another play, where Thy scooped up Burks' low inbound pass that got away from Randle (right after Randle crash-landed due to the Howard block).  I guess they didn't give Thybulle a steal on that, though the ball was loose and he got to it first.  The guy hustles.

There were a lot of terrific defensive plays all night.
Also, resulting in some sloppy offensive possessions.
The refs let them play, and we got a good battle out of that, with plenty of contact.
The first half was a bit of a slog.
But the 2nd half was exciting.
Fun to see two physical teams go at it.

Franc was fairly useless.  0-4 FG, but 2 misses were airballs.
What did folks think of the no PG stretch mid 4Q?
Ordinarily I might applaud such a move, but with Randle and RJ wearing down, not sure I liked it.   Burks not a PG.  Where was Ty Haliburton when we needed him ...?
Title: Conjecture
Post by: chipstern on March 17, 2021, 03:16:22 PM
While Houston’s combo guard Victor Oladipo is very available, Pelicans pass-first point guard Lonzo Ball is higher on Leon Rose’s list. However, the Pelicans have not tipped their hand on whether they’re ready to move their ever-improving playmaker, even though he is a restricted free agent this summer as his rookie contract expires. – via Marc Berman @ New York Post

ESPN’s cap guru Bobby Marks told The Post he doubts the Pelicans would match an offer sheet that starts higher than $18 million. The max starting number is $28 million. The Post has learned the Knicks, with plenty of cap room, would be heavily on Ball’s radar as a restricted free agent. – via Marc Berman @ New York Post

My Two Cents

FUCK VICTOR OLADIPO. 

If this is a possibility? 

Make It Happen, LEON. 

PS: Think Ball's Father Would Be Down?   
Title: Meanwhile [This Is Just Heartbreaking]
Post by: chipstern on March 17, 2021, 03:17:29 PM
Accident leaves Shawn Bradley paralyzed


Shams Charania: Dallas Mavericks release on former NBA center, 7-foot-6 Shawn Bradley who suffered an accident that has left him paralyzed
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 17, 2021, 03:36:13 PM
If this is a possibility?

Make It Happen, LEON.

PS: Think Ball's Father Would Be Down?   


heh
Title: Dangle Wangle
Post by: chipstern on March 17, 2021, 03:43:55 PM
Wonder if the Knicks dangled Obi, Frank Burks and Detroit 2021 #2, Dallas 2023 #1 if NO might bite. 

Just thinking out loud. 

Probably not.  And with Zion AND Inghram, does Obi fit any better than here. 

Don't think the Knicks give up on Obi.  Have too much spiritual capital invested in him. 

Still, in lieu of taking Haliburton, converting Obi into Ball?  Snatching victory from the jaws of defeat. 

Probably need a third or fourth team involved. 

Anyway, Ball as a FA overpay in summer of 2021 is an interesting scenario. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 17, 2021, 04:09:52 PM
Ahhhh....but the Thibs-Rose love........
Title: Re: Dangle Wangle
Post by: Kam on March 17, 2021, 04:12:05 PM
Quote from: chipstern on March 17, 2021, 03:43:55 PM
Wonder if the Knicks dangled Obi, Frank Burks and Detroit 2021 #2, Dallas 2023 #1 if NO might bite. 


Eww gross.
Title: Mr. heh#29
Post by: carlos123 on March 17, 2021, 04:23:00 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on March 17, 2021, 03:36:13 PM
If this is a possibility?

Make It Happen, LEON.

PS: Think Ball's Father Would Be Down?   


heh

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3djpDj5R3usgpxd1Sr8zN3BbN1hKxlP-HMmOro58REA3IDQV9wVAjPDf9cxaZeEHVb1GYx8t9lalNzlBu3-MZAA2Z9LTvzpqHaHfV1up8cRm4Z7QXXwzsPbY6WII_H14Sy-FKLEgH7-Of5EpbHN5V0h=w626-h570-no?authuser=0)

AKA Chamaco CARTERO!
Title: Re: Dangle Wangle
Post by: chipstern on March 17, 2021, 05:29:08 PM
Quote from: Kam on March 17, 2021, 04:12:05 PM
Quote from: chipstern on March 17, 2021, 03:43:55 PM
Wonder if the Knicks dangled Obi, Frank Burks and Detroit 2021 #2, Dallas 2023 #1 if NO might bite. 


Eww gross.

Duly noted.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 17, 2021, 05:46:28 PM
It wouldn't be giving up on ObiT, it would be cashing in an asset.
Gotta give to get.
Unless you wait for FA, which I'd prefer.
I don't get why Lonzo would be available ...

maybe when you routinely blow double digit leads, including frittering away a 17 point lead with 6 mins left v. Portland last night ...
16-0 run over 4 mins for POR.
Lillard was crazy, but also Melo hit a big 3 and blocked a shot for one of POR's many late stops.

Tobi Harris yelled I'm an all-star after one of his late baskets.
Wonder if he was miffed Randle made it in over him?
Lotta guys with big years this season.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on March 17, 2021, 06:32:06 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 17, 2021, 05:46:28 PM
It wouldn't be giving up on ObiT, it would be cashing in an asset.
Gotta give to get.
Unless you wait for FA, which I'd prefer.
I don't get why Lonzo would be available ...

maybe when you routinely blow double digit leads, including frittering away a 17 point lead with 6 mins left v. Portland last night ...
16-0 run over 4 mins for POR.
Lillard was crazy, but also Melo hit a big 3 and blocked a shot for one of POR's many late stops.

Tobi Harris yelled I'm an all-star after one of his late baskets.
Wonder if he was miffed Randle made it in over him?
Lotta guys with big years this season.

Yes I would prefer to wait for summer as well.

The narrative is that NO is not keeo on going into luxury tax country. 

Berman's spec is that they would be wont to match RFA offers over 18 million per. 

Seems like some heavy coin. 

However, if Knicks pick up Frank's qualifying offer this summer, that would be $8.32 million. 

RJ is due 8.6 next season, option the following year is 10.9, and qualifying offer the summer after is 14.3

So there is some perspective. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 17, 2021, 07:21:49 PM
Cashing in on A Davis means keeping all three of

HART
BALL
INGRAM

They are on a good path - I agree - not sure Lonzo wont be reupped/matched.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 17, 2021, 08:25:45 PM
It depends on his market.

If Drummond is a priority, I’m not sure we can do both.

Chip, Lavar Ball vs. The MSG security team would be must see TV.
Title: Why o why
Post by: carlos123 on March 17, 2021, 10:30:53 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 17, 2021, 08:25:45 PM
It depends on his market.

If Drummond is a priority, I’m not sure we can do both.

Chip, Lavar Ball vs. The MSG security team would be must see TV.

Why on earth would we want no-D Drummond?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 17, 2021, 11:56:36 PM
Mike Vorkunov: Last 2 Minute report from Knicks-76ers last night. NBA says — RJ Barrett should’ve been called for shooting foul on Ben Simmons w/ 45.7 sec left — Julius Randle should’ve been called for travel with 24.3 sec left — Randle should’ve been called for offensive foul with 14 sec left – via Twitter MikeVorkunov
 


wow
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 18, 2021, 12:46:15 AM
Thanks for that.
I've been meaning to read 2 minute reports for games I watch, but never remember to do so.

Just re-watched the PHI ending:
1) can't tell if RJ fouls Simmons putback attempt, due to the camera angle from behind the action.  But it was a physical game and the refs largely let them play, so I probably like the no-call.  Caveat, couldn't see what contact did/didn't occur.

2) Randle 400% traveled with 24.3 left and down 2.
Randle drove, took a step and then a jump stop (so there's two or three steps after the gather already), went up and realized late he didn't have a shot, so passed off to RJB AFTER he landed.  Both feet touch down before he releases the pass.
So that's 4 or 5 steps Randle transgressed before passing.

Live and on replay at the time, it seemed miraculous Randle got the pass to Barrett somehow.  But it's clear he relanded and then passed.  Surprisingly only one guy on PHI bench got up and signaled travel.  That pass set up a short 8'  J from RJB that would have tied the game, but front-rimmed.

3) Randle indeed fouled the hell out of Scurry to allow Quickly to get off his bricky long 3 point tying attempt.  As Scurry tries to get around Randle's screen, Julius holds on to him and entangles his arms (a minor foul that could be called),
but then as Scurry gets loose and starts going around Randle, Randle steps out and executes a moving screen to block Curry again..
A rather egregious illegal re-screen there before the shot is launched.

One thing impressive is after Randle screen-fouls Scurry twice, Randle hustles from the 3-point line, down the lane and grabs the O-rebound.  Down 3 with 10 secs left, everybody needs to crash the glass (or spot up around the arc), but that was good effort, and Thybulle failed to anticipate JR bulling through and failed to box out.

A rather exhausted Julius was mixing it up in the endgame and got away with some transgressions.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 18, 2021, 02:06:35 AM
Trey Murphy III and Scotty Barnes are the two guys I want out of this year’s draft. I’d Take Cade, or Suggs the GLeage Ignite guard, the skinny one, but I don’t think we’ll be so lucky.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 18, 2021, 11:39:34 AM
Julius is a clutch player and can be critical at the end of games.

But the idea of him taking control of things at the end of the game is getting old. It ain't working.

Opposing teams know it's coming. They descend on him. If they're not forcing a turnover, they're forcing a bad shot. How many times do we need to see the same thing?

Like Bo, I don't understand why he's even bringing the ball up in these situations.

Let a point guard direct the play.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 18, 2021, 12:07:56 PM
Let a point guard direct the play.


AS soon as they are healthy......

It has been said here Quickley is not a PG.

This is no knock on IQ - he has been quite good.

For next year, I'd expect it to be Rose/add a player

or

add a top level starter/Rose-player X

as the points.
Title: Assaholic
Post by: chipstern on March 18, 2021, 01:27:56 PM
Is there a bigger asshole in the blogosphere than Brad Dressler?

You tell ME. 

https://dailyknicks.com/2021/03/17/ny-knicks-beal-randle-drummond-big-3/ (https://dailyknicks.com/2021/03/17/ny-knicks-beal-randle-drummond-big-3/)

This is beyond belief. 

KNICKS GET
BRADLEY BEAL
DAVIS BERTANS

WIZARDS GET
RJ BARRETT, MITCHELL ROBINSON, AARON NESMITH
KEVIN KNOX, OBI TOPPIN, REGGIE BULLOCK
NYK 2021 FIRST ROUND PICK
2022 PICK SWAP, 2023 NYK 1ST RD PICK

CELTICS GET
ELFRID PAYTON
DET 2021 2ND RD PICK
NYK 2022 2ND RD PICK

The thought that this wackamole might be getting paid for this boggles the mind. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 18, 2021, 02:56:53 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on March 18, 2021, 12:07:56 PM
Let a point guard direct the play.


AS soon as they are healthy......

It has been said here Quickley is not a PG.

This is no knock on IQ - he has been quite good.

For next year, I'd expect it to be Rose/add a player

or

add a top level starter/Rose-player X

as the points.

I hear you. But seriously, I would have preferred Quickley in these spots.

If he makes mistakes, you know he's learning from it. The dude is smart.

Meanwhile, he's unpredictable with the ball. Harder for the defense to anticipate. And if he draws a foul, he's making the shots.


Title: No PGs
Post by: chipstern on March 18, 2021, 03:13:40 PM
Payton and Rose still out.

Quickley with an ankle sprain. 

Frank. 

Thibs may be forced to play Jared Harper. 

Yeah, I know. 

Heh. 

Can't see us going with RJ and Burks at the point. 

It Austin Rivers wasn't pouting he would get serious minutes tonight. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 18, 2021, 03:37:26 PM
Come on, man, do we know that he's pouting?
Title: Double the standard
Post by: Kam on March 18, 2021, 03:56:17 PM
Chip has his favorites.  He goes off when Berman points out Ntilikina's regression but he snidely suggests that Rivers is pouting.
Title: Re: Double the standard
Post by: chipstern on March 18, 2021, 05:06:14 PM
Quote from: Kam on March 18, 2021, 03:56:17 PM
Chip has his favorites.  He goes off when Berman points out Ntilikina's regression but he snidely suggests that Rivers is pouting.

Kam & Elephant

Duly Noted

Fair Enough

(https://media.tenor.com/images/cb0791f712e9b10da114a28e9bbee79b/tenor.gif)
Title: Re: Assaholic
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 18, 2021, 05:44:26 PM
Quote from: chipstern on March 18, 2021, 01:27:56 PM
Is there a bigger asshole in the blogosphere than Brad Dressler?

You tell ME. 

https://dailyknicks.com/2021/03/17/ny-knicks-beal-randle-drummond-big-3/ (https://dailyknicks.com/2021/03/17/ny-knicks-beal-randle-drummond-big-3/)

This is beyond belief. 

KNICKS GET
BRADLEY BEAL
DAVIS BERTANS

WIZARDS GET
RJ BARRETT, MITCHELL ROBINSON, AARON NESMITH
KEVIN KNOX, OBI TOPPIN, REGGIE BULLOCK
NYK 2021 FIRST ROUND PICK
2022 PICK SWAP, 2023 NYK 1ST RD PICK

CELTICS GET
ELFRID PAYTON
DET 2021 2ND RD PICK
NYK 2022 2ND RD PICK

The thought that this wackamole might be getting paid for this boggles the mind.

Yeah - no way Celts give up Nesmith
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 18, 2021, 05:45:32 PM
Quote from: elephant on March 18, 2021, 03:37:26 PM
Come on, man, do we know that he's pouting?

Rivers is a new dad - this is why he has been away
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 18, 2021, 10:28:18 PM
FRank!!!!!!!!!

Ya did it, boy.
Title: Pharoah
Post by: carlos123 on March 18, 2021, 10:32:00 PM
Where is Pharoah?

His review of this game would be most welcome!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 19, 2021, 12:58:19 AM
Frank occasionally makes shots. But clutch ones?

Um. Not so much. Nope. No.

But tonight!

That 3 pointer with some three minutes on the clock? That was a beaut!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 19, 2021, 02:40:03 AM
I like Frank taking it to the rack.

Hell of a game by Burks and a massive one by Randle.

At least this game Burks more effective w starters and Bullock (with the play of the game on the last stop) more effective off the bench.

Beating the bottom feeders takes some of the sting out of falling short against the titans.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 19, 2021, 03:23:50 AM
Only caught the 4Q so far.
Funny how Bullocks went from the goat -- getting tied up and then losing the jump ball up 1 --
to getting a crucial steal to Win the game.  Terrible for Fournier to jump in the air to make his pass over to Vuc.
ORL was doing rather poor screens up top, including that play.
Around the 2:30 mark, ORL set a pair of screens up top for Fournier, but neither was effective at all,
so RJB just ran over top with barely a bump and stayed with Fornicator.  So when he passed back to Vuc at the top, Taj was
fully in place and Vuc tried a contested 3 with no one under to rebound.
A lot of poor ORL endgame execution.

Without a PG, Knix just relied on iso-ing Dr. Julius who would pass if they doubled.
Both Burks and Bullox missed open 3's on such action in the last 2+ mins.
Then when ORL got a wide open corner 3, it was Bacon who clanked it back rim.
One of those Open For a Reason characters.





Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 19, 2021, 03:45:09 AM
Strange to see a game where neither team has a PG in the endgame or for much of the 4Q.  RJB and Burks took turns playing fauk-PG, but mostly Thibs rode Point-Julius.  ORl going with Fournier and Vuc.

Was that Burks 1st start of the season?
Shows that Thibs didn't trust Franc to be his primarily or main ballhandler.
So he needed Burks as a safety valve.  Reg not much of a ballhander (as the endgame showed). 

Rather odd that Knix surplus of PG's and combo G's has dwindled to just Franc.
Agree that this was a game custom-made for a Rivers comeback.  A missed op. 
(we missed Denny Jr. Smith!)

Didn't see the first 3Q's yet, but as for Bullocks better off the bench and Burks starting in this game: Reg entered the game after the first 6 mins with NYK down 10.  Then Reg played 36 mins, sitting only another 6.
Overall, Reg +16; Burks -12.

Nice to grind out a W, but ORl is a poor team.
And started Chasson "No Relation" Randle at PG.
That was the best stint I saw from Mo Bomb, which included a killer block on RJB and a straightahead 3-bomba.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 19, 2021, 03:49:22 AM
No mention of triple double randle yet.

Ok that's done.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 19, 2021, 05:54:49 AM
Look four posts up, Kam.

Frank is A) coming along and B) worth bringing along based on what he contributes already. You saw a bit of it tonight and Thibs pulled Frank on a high note, which adds just a little to why I love Thibs.

You had a limited number of guys who manned up, balled out, and either played too many minutes or played to their upper limit in their shot, and got us the win. The Thibs blueprint basically.

Randle Barret Bullock Burks Taj Frank

To be fair, the backcourt we faced was Fournier, Aaron Gordon, Bacon, Chasson Randle and a rook.

I hope we get a practice in and a healthy body or two back before we see Philly again.

Randle has matured his game to the point where if he doesn’t regress and can get through whatever run we’re on fit to play on, I’m happy max extending him however and whenever he wants. That in my mind is enough to say straight up cornerstone for this build.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 19, 2021, 10:07:09 AM
Quote from: Kam on March 19, 2021, 03:49:22 AM
No mention of triple double randle yet.

Ok that's done.

Couple of real clutch jumpers down the stretch by our main man - who KNOWS when it is time the best players should step up (reason he has the ball ina tie/close game - yes - even bringing it up on occasion)

Leaders lead - and this isnt something JR was going to do early in his career.  Its teammate-dependent.  Lets remember this when discussing future free agents/trade additions.

17 assists?  Well, the guy is simply a very very good - and team-oriented offensive basketball player

(By the way, saw glimmers of the same from Barrett - who I have been saying lacks counter moves to his strong drives - RJ going left, seeing it blocked and reversing path to bring the ball back out.  Promising.)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 19, 2021, 10:13:43 AM
The max extension (4/$106M) seems fair.
Problem is Randle might wait til after next year to get a 4 or 5 year max contract, which is significantly more.

Otherwise, I have no problem overpaying for Lonzo Ball when he's a FA.
$20-$24M.  We could shave off $6M - $8M by simply flipping Franc for a high 2nd rounder.   Or re-sign Rose, drop Elf and hang on to Franc.  I look at it as the $6M+ savings on Elf/Franc lowers the real cost of Ball.  Generally you overpay in FA if you want to get a starter.  Bonzo is young and pretty good.

Bigger question to me  is how good is Ball and how much of a fit with NYK.  I tend to think NOPe is foolish to let him go.  Will try to see their games more.

That was a career high assists for Randle.  But I have yet to see the first 3Q's.  4Q Julius was more a workhorse, and a couple of his passes resulted in missed open shots.

 

Caveat: I haven't seen NOPe much and Ball has been excelling in a largely off the ball or at least combo G role, it seems.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 19, 2021, 10:28:32 AM
The max extension (4/$106M) seems fair.


I think it will be more than this.

Wishful thinkers somewhere posted this.  And I havent seen it repeated anywhere.

As a 7 year vet I am fairly certain the numbers are much higher



edit -

Problem is Randle might wait til after next year to get a 4 or 5 year max contract, which is significantly more.


my bad - didnt read entirely - yeah - makes sense Randle would wait
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 19, 2021, 10:35:46 AM
Extension candidates:

https://hoopshype.com/lists/nba-offseason-extension-candidates-giannis-antetokounmpo/

(in case we are looking to deal for any of them)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 19, 2021, 10:39:48 AM
Do we rip up Robinson's team option year and give him 4-53.8?

Or offer him 3-39 on top of next year's low number - risking him saying no and being available for other teams to bid for '22-'23

If the Knicks new front office decides to keep Robinson long-term, they might as well commit to him now. They can give him three years $39 million over his current deal or decline his team option for 2021-22 and give him four years, $51 million. That is fantastic value if he pans out into the elite rim protector he has the potential to become.

Maximum possible contract: Three years, $38.9 million / Four years $53.8 million
Free agency age: 24 years old in 2022
Career earnings: $3,045,152
Agent: Rich Paul
Probability of extending: Strong
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 19, 2021, 11:18:43 AM
4/$52M would be a good deal, locking up Mitch at another bargain rate, while still making sure he gets paid.  If I'm Mitch I would not be happy at all playing out next year on a minimum contract, at risk of injury and losing out on financial security.


Ant Edwards has been breaking out lately.
5 straight games with 20+ points.
With good shooting splits 47% / 39%

Kat and Edwards both scored 40+ to defeat PHX.
AntEd is just 19.  Terrific athlete.  Harnessing his game.

Funny, pre-season some thought ObiT and Avidja would be leading ROY candidates, basically due to their experience v. the relative youth of the other draftees.
But Toppings was always destined to be stuck behind Randle.  And Avdija has seemed rather passive (playing with ballhogs in Rustbrook and Beal).

Instead we have Ball, TyH and Quickly as the clear top rooks thus far.
Ball making a huge impact at 19.
TyH looking like a vet (how'd he slip again?)
Quix the biggest surprise, with his 3's, his floaters, his ability to get in the lane and draw fouls and make FT's.  Though we're seeing that he's not a PG, at least not yet.
Thibs has done a nice job pairing IQ with another ballhandler, first Rivers and then a  PG in Rose.  Lately I've been impressed that Quicks' defense has improved.
Title: The Ghost Of Johnny Most
Post by: chipstern on March 19, 2021, 11:35:19 AM
Bullock stole the ball

BULLOCK STOLE THE BALL
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 19, 2021, 11:40:48 AM
Ball
Edwards
Wiseman
- add -
Title: Pharoah
Post by: chipstern on March 19, 2021, 11:41:20 AM
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSa8zW3XVOpLGNAwrsoISyyjMeHPBpStHaN17LJzBY95n6Eg0u_pF3jpAQaT68-bCLaPZo&usqp=CAU)

Come Back, Shane, er, PHAROAH. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 19, 2021, 11:45:21 AM
Er, I already have Ball as #1.

Edwards and Wiseman are the next tier.
Either one could have a 2nd half surge, but right now they are 4/5 on rookie rankings.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on March 19, 2021, 11:47:52 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 19, 2021, 11:18:43 AM
4/$52M would be a good deal, locking up Mitch at another bargain rate, while still making sure he gets paid.  If I'm Mitch I would not be happy at all playing out next year on a minimum contract, at risk of injury and losing out on financial security.


Ant Edwards has been breaking out lately.
5 straight games with 20+ points.
With good shooting splits 47% / 39%

Kat and Edwards both scored 40+ to defeat PHX.
AntEd is just 19.  Terrific athlete.  Harnessing his game.

Funny, pre-season some thought ObiT and Avidja would be leading ROY candidates, basically due to their experience v. the relative youth of the other draftees.
But Toppings was always destined to be stuck behind Randle.  And Avdija has seemed rather passive (playing with ballhogs in Rustbrook and Beal).

Instead we have Ball, TyH and Quickly as the clear top rooks thus far.
Ball making a huge impact at 19.
TyH looking like a vet (how'd he slip again?)
Quix the biggest surprise, with his 3's, his floaters, his ability to get in the lane and draw fouls and make FT's.  Though we're seeing that he's not a PG, at least not yet.
Thibs has done a nice job pairing IQ with another ballhandler, first Rivers and then a  PG in Rose.  Lately I've been impressed that Quicks' defense has improved.

Obi should be in rookie of the year contention just for breathing down Randle's neck.

Not certain that the Knicks were sure about Julius.

Hell, early in the season, after another really good performance, on one of Alan Hahn's post-game Facebook podcasts, Alan was floating the notion that Julius was still in play as a trade Chip, citing Obi, and I really dig Hahn, but I was aghast.  "Typical Knicks....snatching defeat from the jaws of victory" Chip posted. 

That ship appears to have sailed. 

ROY?

Ball
Haliburton
Quickley

And coming on strong

Edwards
Bey
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 19, 2021, 11:51:30 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 19, 2021, 11:45:21 AM
Er, I already have Ball as #1.

Edwards and Wiseman are the next tier.
Either one could have a 2nd half surge, but right now they are 4/5 on rookie rankings.

disagree - but thats fine

Also like Bey, Achiuwa, Stewart, Williams
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 19, 2021, 11:59:16 AM
KIRA LEWIS is one to watch second half
Title: Why?
Post by: carlos123 on March 19, 2021, 01:22:35 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on March 19, 2021, 11:59:16 AM
KIRA LEWIS is one to watch second half

Why?
Any particular reason(s), or must we just believe it because chamacocartero8 said so?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 19, 2021, 02:03:50 PM
Magic take some lazy 3's instead of working for better shots.
Vuc a main culprit.  Vuc willing to take bad shots, 3's or otherwise.

Orl was quite susceptible to guys cutting right down the gut while they over-watched Randle posting up.  Burks and RJB took advantage with timely dives in the 1Q.

Magic just don't seem focused.
End of 1Q, they get a 24 sec violation.  Gordon receives an extra pass with almost no time left and he dribbles.  Er.  Then 6 ticks left, Randle gets the ball in the backcourt, dribbles up and Birch ... sags off, giving Randle a wide open 3.  Quarter was ending, gotta play up.

Chasson Randle looked pretty mediocre.  I realize he hasn't played much with these guys.  But right out of the gate, he threw a mushy pass which Randle picked off easily.  Followed by Chasson bobbling a pass out of bounds.  All 3 of his assists were 1Q.  Seemed his main highlight was getting fouled by Franc and making all 3.
I recall Chasson being somewhat intriguing when briefly a Knick.  But that's some time ago.  Good for him, hanging around the fringes of the NBA and even getting to start.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 19, 2021, 02:18:54 PM
Early 2Q, Knox gets called for defensive 3 seconds.
I counted 7 secs.  He never stepped out.
And then comically he complained, pointing to his feet while one remains in the paint.
Clyde: "Knox is baffled by the call."
Title: Re: Pharoah
Post by: Jack Straw on March 19, 2021, 02:58:03 PM
Quote from: chipstern on March 19, 2021, 11:41:20 AM
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSa8zW3XVOpLGNAwrsoISyyjMeHPBpStHaN17LJzBY95n6Eg0u_pF3jpAQaT68-bCLaPZo&usqp=CAU)

Come Back, Shane, er, PHAROAH.
Pharaoh is busy this time of year contending down low with Moses on a 2 on 1 break
Title: Bullock
Post by: Kam on March 19, 2021, 04:59:16 PM
14-28 from 3 over the last 3 games
18-39 from 3 over the last 4 games
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 19, 2021, 05:10:08 PM
It will be a little sad breaking up the Bullock-Burks tandem as we try to improve.
Title: Why NOT?
Post by: chipstern on March 19, 2021, 05:52:21 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on March 19, 2021, 01:22:35 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on March 19, 2021, 11:59:16 AM
KIRA LEWIS is one to watch second half

Why?
Any particular reason(s), or must we just believe it because chamacocartero8 said so?

Much as it pains me to co-sign Man Coulter, even a broken clock is right twice a day.

The Pelicans really like Kira Lewis.  He is a human jet ski along the lines of Morant. 

Wasn't that high pitched motherfucker who played for the Spurs his college coach at Alabama? 

The Knicks heavily scouted him going into the draft.  Trying to remember the narrative, but they either checked him out twice, or Leon & Friends made special trip to take him to dinner.  The Knicks really liked him, but supposedly thought #8 might have been too high to draft him.  He went at #13 right after Haliburton. 

In any event, if one is to buy into the narrative, the Pelicans are not real keen on the luxury tax and Ball's possible asking price and cap hit. 

That sounds a bit odd to me. 

His father, of course, is campaigning to get Lonzo out of New Orleans.  Not sure how his son or David Griffin feel about that. 

“No! No, he can’t stay in New Orleans. Come on, man. Come on, listen. … Lonzo’s always been a playmaker. Why are you trying to change him into a defensive specialist that stays in the corner and shoots 3s? And you’re trying to change Zion and Brandon Ingram who, all through their careers, have never been playmakers. Scorers! Now you want to put the ball in their hands and be playmakers?! … Go score the ball and do what you do and guess what? They’re gonna have a hard time trying to win every game if the playmaker ain’t making the right plays.”

The caveat with LaVar at this point is that it has been a long time since he’s spoken on behalf of his two sons. Memorably, LaMelo took a hard stance against his dad during the predraft process, distancing himself from his father’s opinions.

Lonzo has not taken that stance publicly – yet – but has spoken about being in New Orleans in the future in quotes that directly contradict LaVar. Prior to the All-Star break, Ball stated that he wanted to be apart of the future with the Pelicans alongside Brandon Ingram and Zion Williamson.

“I love playing with those guys, and I’m also really cool with them off the floor as well. We’re all young. I think we can do some big things, especially in the future coming up.”

In reality, LaVar’s quotes from Thursday likely are how he feels about Lonzo’s situation. It ultimately likely won’t matter anyway as reports have indicated the Pelicans are focused on keeping Ball at least through the trade deadline and into restricted free agency.

Ball has good size and length ay 6'6". 

He defends. 

Good court vision. 

My main issues with him were inconsistent shooting, range, and lousy free throw shooting.  Not to mention with his athletic abillity he should be able to work the downhill game more effectively and get to the FT line more. 

Well, this season his FT% has risen RJ like from .566 to .767

His shooting has also improved this season...a steady ascent from a .420 FG% in his rookie year to .497  this season, .385 from trey. 

Again, I am hard pressed to wonder why the Pelicans would not match RFA offers.  Would a VanVLeet scaled deal get them to back off or at least consider a S&T? 

We shall see. 

I don't think the Knicks are going to entertain any dramatic moves before the trade deadline.  Think Rose and Company want to make a playoff run and evaluate options going into the summer. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 19, 2021, 06:05:42 PM
Saw a little think on Hoopshype about CLIPPERS and Lonzo

Makes sense.  Trade/extend.  Plays at home.
Title: Clippers Rumors Regarding Ball
Post by: chipstern on March 19, 2021, 07:27:51 PM
Good luck with that one. 

They have practically NO ASSETS.

Thanks to a series of dumb ass trades, such as with the Knicks (who have the right to swap #1s with the Clippers this summer, unlikely as that might be).

And then, there is the PAUL GEORGE TRADE. 

The price of Kawhi committing to the Clippers in free agency was for them to get him a rumming buddy. 

Sam Presti obtained Paul George for Victor Oladipo and Sabonis The Younger. 

And when the Clippers came a calling, Sam exacted A TERRIBLE PRICE, worthy of Masai Ujiri's Epic Gang Rape Of Donnie Walsh and James Dolan in the Carmelo Heist. 

Let's go to the video tape. 

OKC now owns the Clippers' 2022, 2024 and 2026 #1 picks. 

Nice?  Ah, but there's MORE. 

OKC has the right to flip their #1 for the Clippers' in 2023 and 2025. 

LONZO BALL FOOTNOTE: And of course, the Clippers cannot trade #1 picks in consective years, so they are stuck with their 2021, 2023 and 2025 picks, all of which may be flipper favorably by the Knicks and Thunder. 

The Clippers do own the second round picks of Portland [2023], and in multiple years, Detroit, presumanly from the Blake Griffin trade, speaking of dumbass transactions [2024, 2025, 2026]. The Clippers have already conveyed Detroit's 2021 #2 to the Knicks from the Morris Trade. 

And apprently Sam Presti not only obtained Miami's 2021 and 2023 #1 picks but Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, and forward Danilo Gallinari.  Gallo has moved on, but the 22 year old, 6'6" POINT GUARD out of Kentucky [the 11th pick, after we took Knox at #9]in only his third season is averaging 23.5 ppg, 4.8 boards, and 6.0 assists, which converting FTs at a .807% clip [180-223, compared to Ball's 33-43], while his 3-pt conversion rate is .807% [67-164, compared to Ball's 114-296].

Finally, not only no draft assets with which to tempt the Pelicans, but with the fourth highest payroll in the league, no tradeable bodies. 

Paul George   $35,450,412   $39,344,970   $42,492,568   $45,640,165   $48,787,763
Kawhi Leonard   $34,379,100   $36,016,200   $0   $0   $0
Marcus Morris   $14,883,721   $15,627,907   $16,372,093   $17,116,279   $0
Patrick Beverley   $13,333,333   $14,320,987   $0   $0   $0
Serge Ibaka   $9,258,000   $9,720,900   $0   $0   $0
Louis Williams   $8,000,000   $0   $0   $0   $0
Ivica Zubac   $7,000,000   $7,518,518   $7,518,518   $0   $0
Luke Kennard   $5,273,826   $12,727,273   $13,745,455   $14,763,636   $14,763,636

Oh, and THIS bears repeating....Kawhi has a player option this summer.  And while Paul Geroge's numbers this year are stellar, if Leonard bolts, as unlikley as that might be, well.....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 19, 2021, 07:37:37 PM
Zubac would fit in New O.

Don't get me wrong.  Ball is likely not being dealt anywhere
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 19, 2021, 07:40:22 PM
I'm happy with this Knick team as constructed.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 19, 2021, 08:10:45 PM
Plus the draft picks and maybe one free agent we could be a pretty good team, true - if we keep Burks/Bullock/Rose.
Title: Re: Why NOT? or Mr. heh#31
Post by: carlos123 on March 19, 2021, 08:36:51 PM
Quote from: chipstern on March 19, 2021, 05:52:21 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on March 19, 2021, 01:22:35 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on March 19, 2021, 11:59:16 AM
KIRA LEWIS is one to watch second half

Why?
Any particular reason(s), or must we just believe it because chamacocartero8 said so?

Much as it pains me to co-sign Man Coulter, even a broken clock is right twice a day.

The Pelicans really like Kira Lewis.  He is a human jet ski along the lines of Morant. 

Wasn't that high pitched motherfucker who played for the Spurs his college coach at Alabama? 

The Knicks heavily scouted him going into the draft.  Trying to remember the narrative, but they either checked him out twice, or Leon & Friends made special trip to take him to dinner.  The Knicks really liked him, but supposedly thought #8 might have been too high to draft him.  He went at #13 right after Haliburton. 

In any event, if one is to buy into the narrative, the Pelicans are not real keen on the luxury tax and Ball's possible asking price and cap hit. 

That sounds a bit odd to me. 

His father, of course, is campaigning to get Lonzo out of New Orleans.  Not sure how his son or David Griffin feel about that. 

“No! No, he can’t stay in New Orleans. Come on, man. Come on, listen. … Lonzo’s always been a playmaker. Why are you trying to change him into a defensive specialist that stays in the corner and shoots 3s? And you’re trying to change Zion and Brandon Ingram who, all through their careers, have never been playmakers. Scorers! Now you want to put the ball in their hands and be playmakers?! … Go score the ball and do what you do and guess what? They’re gonna have a hard time trying to win every game if the playmaker ain’t making the right plays.”

The caveat with LaVar at this point is that it has been a long time since he’s spoken on behalf of his two sons. Memorably, LaMelo took a hard stance against his dad during the predraft process, distancing himself from his father’s opinions.

Lonzo has not taken that stance publicly – yet – but has spoken about being in New Orleans in the future in quotes that directly contradict LaVar. Prior to the All-Star break, Ball stated that he wanted to be apart of the future with the Pelicans alongside Brandon Ingram and Zion Williamson.

“I love playing with those guys, and I’m also really cool with them off the floor as well. We’re all young. I think we can do some big things, especially in the future coming up.”

In reality, LaVar’s quotes from Thursday likely are how he feels about Lonzo’s situation. It ultimately likely won’t matter anyway as reports have indicated the Pelicans are focused on keeping Ball at least through the trade deadline and into restricted free agency.

Ball has good size and length ay 6'6". 

He defends. 

Good court vision. 

My main issues with him were inconsistent shooting, range, and lousy free throw shooting.  Not to mention with his athletic abillity he should be able to work the downhill game more effectively and get to the FT line more. 

Well, this season his FT% has risen RJ like from .566 to .767

His shooting has also improved this season...a steady ascent from a .420 FG% in his rookie year to .497  this season, .385 from trey. 

Again, I am hard pressed to wonder why the Pelicans would not match RFA offers.  Would a VanVLeet scaled deal get them to back off or at least consider a S&T? 

We shall see. 

I don't think the Knicks are going to entertain any dramatic moves before the trade deadline.  Think Rose and Company want to make a playoff run and evaluate options going into the summer.

Chip, I agree with your assessment of Kira. What I find comical are Chamaco's assertions without ANY reason/explanation behind, except for the occasional heh or lol.

As for the Ball brothers, I love them both (especially LaMelo), though The Daddy is hard to stomach in any town or situation.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 19, 2021, 08:57:56 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on March 19, 2021, 08:10:45 PM
Plus the draft picks and maybe one free agent we could be a pretty good team, true - if we keep Burks/Bullock/Rose.

Not a bad plan.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 19, 2021, 09:48:23 PM
By the way, that Bamba kid can play.

Obi and Austin for Mo Bamba and they can swap their second for the Detroit second we have this year if Detroit’s winds up higher. It shouldn’t be more than a pick or two, but it makes a decent minimal sweetener.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 19, 2021, 10:08:54 PM
Aaron Gordon (available) with 33 on 12-18 as Magic try to close out Nets
Title: Celtics
Post by: carlos123 on March 19, 2021, 10:55:36 PM
Knicks 21-21 ahead of them Celtics 20-21.

Fuk them Celtics!!!

(sorry Bank)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 20, 2021, 12:50:11 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on March 19, 2021, 05:10:08 PM
It will be a little sad breaking up the Bullock-Burks tandem as we try to improve.

Yeah, it's funny. Watching them play together last game, for the first time I thought:

This shit kind of works.

Title: Your Portland Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on March 20, 2021, 12:53:41 AM
Your Portland Knicks just beat them Dallas Knicks AGAIN.

They should play each other every phucking day!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 20, 2021, 01:11:19 AM
Quote from: Kam on March 19, 2021, 07:40:22 PM
I'm happy with this Knick team as constructed.

Yeah. Agreed.

And for years, that's something I never could have imagined saying.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 20, 2021, 05:16:06 PM
I wouldn’t go that far yet. They are definitely better and more fun to watch. I give them a lot of credit for having gotten that far already. There’s still a lot more building left to go.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on March 20, 2021, 07:09:16 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 19, 2021, 09:48:23 PM
By the way, that Bamba kid can play.

Obi and Austin for Mo Bamba and they can swap their second for the Detroit second we have this year if Detroit’s winds up higher. It shouldn’t be more than a pick or two, but it makes a decent minimal sweetener.

Bamba is indeed very interesting, but not now and not at the cost of Obi AND the Detroit #2

Summer is soon enough for such bold projections.  And while I did indeed float the notion of Obi as a tickler in a trade, that was a fantasy involving a starting PG in Lonzo Ball.  No, my trade sucked.  And I'd say the same thing to me that I would to you....

What's the rush?  So we can undermine Noels' sense of belonging as we make our push?  Bring in a higher paid player than BOTH Mitchel AND Nerlens to be our third string center?   

PS: Mo Bamba   $5,969,040   $7,568,743   $10,096,703 [Qualifying Offer]

If Nerlens walks, Bamba might indeed be an interesting target. 

For right now, I LIKE THESE KNICKS, and feel no urgency to make a deal or mess with chemistry. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 20, 2021, 08:00:06 PM
Urgency?  Nahhhh

But part of the job is always having eyes open.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 20, 2021, 08:00:39 PM
Hawks over Lakers today




yyyyep....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 20, 2021, 08:08:58 PM
Who the hell is Alen Smailagic?

About to watch him join the red hot Jordan Poole as a Warriors starter
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on March 20, 2021, 09:40:57 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on March 20, 2021, 08:00:39 PM
Hawks over Lakers today




yyyyep....
James got hurt.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 21, 2021, 02:16:39 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 20, 2021, 05:16:06 PM
I wouldn’t go that far yet. They are definitely better and more fun to watch. I give them a lot of credit for having gotten that far already. There’s still a lot more building left to go.

“As constructed” doesn’t mean no more building.  Just means the materials for the build are mostly in place. I am including the near-future picks in my assessment and maybe a minor free agent or two with cap. 

In other words ... no trades.  Except the ones Brock Aller deems  prudent for the balance sheet.
Title: Brock Aller
Post by: chipstern on March 21, 2021, 10:19:02 AM
Our One Stop Shopper For Value. 

Be interesting to see what players are bought out, and who if any have any relevance to the Knicks. 

Under such circumstances, not sure if Thibs would be interested in the likes of Drummond or Aldridge based either on fit or their inclination to play for a more obvious playoff ready team. 

Drummond and Aldridge would both seem better suited to the likes of the Nyets and the Celtics, the Lakers and Clippers.

Others, such as Otto Porter would certainly be interesting, but for the Knicks?  With Bullock.

JJ Reddick?  Now there's a thought. 

I'm wondering if the Kings are going retain Hassan Whiteside. 

Other than Reddick, I would suggest that no one is ringing any bells for the Knicks. 

PS: Not advocating for Kevin Love, God forbid, a ghost of his former self at 32, who seemingly cannot stay healthy.  $31,258,256, $31,258,256, $28,942,830.  Look at those numbers.  Who in their right mind would trade for him? 

PPS: I'm wondering how complicit Brock Aller as head of strategic planning was in Love's 4-year contract with the Cavs.  It appears as if Koby Altman, who took over for David Griffin as General Manager, would hve had the final say on trades, draft picks and free agents. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 21, 2021, 12:33:06 PM
Quote from: Kam on March 21, 2021, 02:16:39 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 20, 2021, 05:16:06 PM
I wouldn’t go that far yet. They are definitely better and more fun to watch. I give them a lot of credit for having gotten that far already. There’s still a lot more building left to go.

“As constructed” doesn’t mean no more building.  Just means the materials for the build are mostly in place. I am including the near-future picks in my assessment and maybe a minor free agent or two with cap. 

In other words ... no trades.  Except the ones Brock Aller deems  prudent for the balance sheet.

No trades

Real smart

So the players you are adding in the draft and free agency just either sit the bench or send current players there, rather than get assets back for them?

Or are you going 12-13 deep next year?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 21, 2021, 01:52:55 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on March 21, 2021, 12:33:06 PM
Quote from: Kam on March 21, 2021, 02:16:39 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 20, 2021, 05:16:06 PM
I wouldn’t go that far yet. They are definitely better and more fun to watch. I give them a lot of credit for having gotten that far already. There’s still a lot more building left to go.

“As constructed” doesn’t mean no more building.  Just means the materials for the build are mostly in place. I am including the near-future picks in my assessment and maybe a minor free agent or two with cap. 

In other words ... no trades.  Except the ones Brock Aller deems  prudent for the balance sheet.

No trades

Real smart

So the players you are adding in the draft and free agency just either sit the bench or send current players there, rather than get assets back for them?

Or are you going 12-13 deep next year?

Trades deemed cap wise by Aller- Yes.  Like a trade of a player we don’t want on the cap for a less expensive player or a future pick.

Trades where we send out picks to make a playoff push - No.
Title: Kamster, you don't understand...
Post by: carlos123 on March 21, 2021, 03:59:32 PM
Quote from: Kam on March 21, 2021, 01:52:55 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on March 21, 2021, 12:33:06 PM
Quote from: Kam on March 21, 2021, 02:16:39 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 20, 2021, 05:16:06 PM
I wouldn’t go that far yet. They are definitely better and more fun to watch. I give them a lot of credit for having gotten that far already. There’s still a lot more building left to go.

“As constructed” doesn’t mean no more building.  Just means the materials for the build are mostly in place. I am including the near-future picks in my assessment and maybe a minor free agent or two with cap. 

In other words ... no trades.  Except the ones Brock Aller deems  prudent for the balance sheet.

No trades

Real smart

So the players you are adding in the draft and free agency just either sit the bench or send current players there, rather than get assets back for them?

Or are you going 12-13 deep next year?

Trades deemed cap wise by Aller- Yes.  Like a trade of a player we don’t want on the cap for a less expensive player or a future pick.

Trades where we send out picks to make a playoff push - No.

...so I'll let Chamaco Cartero himself explain it one more time:

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3djpDj5R3usgpxd1Sr8zN3BbN1hKxlP-HMmOro58REA3IDQV9wVAjPDf9cxaZeEHVb1GYx8t9lalNzlBu3-MZAA2Z9LTvzpqHaHfV1up8cRm4Z7QXXwzsPbY6WII_H14Sy-FKLEgH7-Of5EpbHN5V0h=w626-h570-no?authuser=0)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 21, 2021, 06:02:18 PM
Quote from: Kam on March 21, 2021, 01:52:55 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on March 21, 2021, 12:33:06 PM
Quote from: Kam on March 21, 2021, 02:16:39 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 20, 2021, 05:16:06 PM
I wouldn’t go that far yet. They are definitely better and more fun to watch. I give them a lot of credit for having gotten that far already. There’s still a lot more building left to go.

“As constructed” doesn’t mean no more building.  Just means the materials for the build are mostly in place. I am including the near-future picks in my assessment and maybe a minor free agent or two with cap. 

In other words ... no trades.  Except the ones Brock Aller deems  prudent for the balance sheet.

No trades

Real smart

So the players you are adding in the draft and free agency just either sit the bench or send current players there, rather than get assets back for them?

Or are you going 12-13 deep next year?

Trades deemed cap wise by Aller- Yes.  Like a trade of a player we don’t want on the cap for a less expensive player or a future pick.

Trades where we send out picks to make a playoff push - No.

Even if it's a player that can help beyond this year?

I disagree

We won't be making all our future picks
Title: Another confirmation...
Post by: carlos123 on March 21, 2021, 06:37:31 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on March 21, 2021, 06:02:18 PM
Quote from: Kam on March 21, 2021, 01:52:55 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on March 21, 2021, 12:33:06 PM
Quote from: Kam on March 21, 2021, 02:16:39 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 20, 2021, 05:16:06 PM
I wouldn’t go that far yet. They are definitely better and more fun to watch. I give them a lot of credit for having gotten that far already. There’s still a lot more building left to go.

“As constructed” doesn’t mean no more building.  Just means the materials for the build are mostly in place. I am including the near-future picks in my assessment and maybe a minor free agent or two with cap. 

In other words ... no trades.  Except the ones Brock Aller deems  prudent for the balance sheet.

No trades

Real smart

So the players you are adding in the draft and free agency just either sit the bench or send current players there, rather than get assets back for them?

Or are you going 12-13 deep next year?

Trades deemed cap wise by Aller- Yes.  Like a trade of a player we don’t want on the cap for a less expensive player or a future pick.

Trades where we send out picks to make a playoff push - No.

Even if it's a player that can help beyond this year?

I disagree

We won't be making all our future picks

...also by Chamaco-Cartero-hisself.
Title: DAMN
Post by: carlos123 on March 21, 2021, 11:02:57 PM
We was robbed!!!

🏀😡
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 21, 2021, 11:15:38 PM
I never realized how good Danny Green’s tattoos are till today.

If I weren’t 3 or 4 games ahead of schedule on my win prediction, I would have been upset by this game.

Our defense is way ahead of our offense and our general chill in the frontcourt. Our defense still has a way to go.

Taj or Knox would do a little more than the pure goose egg with Obi’s minutes. A board, a steal, a dime, something, perhaps even a made shot.

We missed our chances and got hung with a loss, but we banged with them all damn night.

The refs hating the Knicks is becoming something of a national story between the Nyets game and tonight.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 21, 2021, 11:31:52 PM
Self-inflected loss.  Bad fucking loss.  Fucking box out and then you don't need to be doing stupid shit.
Title: The other Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on March 22, 2021, 12:31:09 AM
Today your Portland Kincks lost (finally) to the Dallas Knicks.

From what I see on the box score, everybody was off on the Portland Knicks and Luka was just un-phucking-stoppable. On fire this evening!
Title: Epic Loss
Post by: bodiddley on March 22, 2021, 10:10:59 AM
Quote from: Kam on March 21, 2021, 11:31:52 PM
Self-inflected loss.  Bad fucking loss.  Fucking box out and then you don't need to be doing stupid shit.

Hate to be so one-note, but that's the kind of thing that occurs when a guy is out there 46 minutes and is tired.  On a last second shot like that, you know guys are going to crash the boards, as PHI needed a score down 1.

I think Thibs got flustered and messed up on that as well.  He called timeout and complained but never asked for the challenge.  I assume because the push-in-the-back foul was fairly clear.  But with 5 secs left in OT, what do you have to lose by challenging.

One thing I can tell you true: PHI does not want to see NYK in the playoffs.  We can hold their O in check and games become a grind out toss up.  Knix as an 8th seed would not make Doc & Co. happy.

Otherwise a game goes on long enough and there's plenty of opportunity for redemption.  Burks had a blah game through 3Q's,  Then to start the 4Q, he lazily followed his man on a cross-court cut, meandered and got screened off, allowing Thybulle a wide open 3.  Thibs immediately called Time.
And then Burks was lights out most of the 4Q and OT, along with getting steals and making passes.  Suddenly it was all-star Burks for 15 mins.

Bullox played superb D on Tobias, just crushing his spirit most of the 2nd half.  Some double-teams helped, but Reg really stymied Harris (how many times did Clyde mention that if Harris thinks of himself as an All-Star he needs to take over?  -- he really latched on to that).  Then Tobias misses a pair of FT's at the end of reg that would have sealed it.  Then Harris was doing a great job of guarding Randle in the corner, but inexplicably backed off for a second apparently worried about a drive when Knix needed a 3.  And a rather lucky 3 it was.  Randle coming through again.

Then Harris makes 2 FT's to win it in OT.
Sorry folks, but I want Randle fresher for crunch time.
ObiT can't give us 10-15 mins.  Or de-mothball Knox for 5 mins.

Granny Deen was a complete mofo on D, and then popped some key 3's in OT.
Thybulle and Simmons get a ton of deflections.  Green just went for tie-ups.
Was something watching Green and Bullox just play their asses off on D.
47 mins for Reg.

PHI makes some terrible passes.
Both teams with tons of turnovers and lots of missed FT's.
Old style slugfest.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 22, 2021, 10:28:45 AM
0 assists from Quickly.
I guess that's why Burks was the PG most of the 4Q and OT.

Knix had 17 turnovers and just 16 assists (and that's after OT)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 22, 2021, 11:34:11 AM
0 assists from Quickly.




All together now -

QUICKLEY IS NOT A POINT GUARD
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 22, 2021, 11:58:25 AM
So...

3 games ahead of Raptors, who are better than us but cant seem to get out of their own way

Should we be looking LOTTERY again?

Wiz for 2 this week.  Actually a dangerous team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 22, 2021, 01:23:15 PM
IQ is Gerald Wilkins with a 3-ball.

Grin and Barrett: Do the Knicks Have a Star in the Making or Something Else? (https://www.theringer.com/nba/2021/3/15/22330592/rj-barrett-new-york-knicks)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 22, 2021, 01:31:19 PM
IQ is Gerald Wilkins TICKY BURDENwith a 3-ball.



Title: The bomb squad
Post by: Kam on March 22, 2021, 03:40:46 PM
(https://www.nba.com/knicks/sites/knicks/files/styles/mobile__700x500_/public/ny-013017.png?itok=R5jJw_Sm)

https://theknickswall.com/revisiting-random-knicks-seasons-past-1988-89-bomb-squad/ (https://theknickswall.com/revisiting-random-knicks-seasons-past-1988-89-bomb-squad/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 22, 2021, 03:41:33 PM
Funny, I was just thinking about Gerald Wilkins as a pre-cursor to IQ. 
Title: Gerald
Post by: chipstern on March 22, 2021, 05:48:47 PM
Not quite sure what you see in IQ, stylistically of physically that suggests Gerlad Wilkins. 

Gerald did indeed have some facilitating skills [averaging 3.5 assists as a Knick], but was a .750% FT shooter and not a particularly reliable long range shooter. 

At 6'6" he was more of a down hill swing wing like RJ, though I see Barrett as having way more upside and a more mature character. 

IQ puts me more in mind of tweener scaled combo guard/sixth men sparkplugs, such as 6'1" Lou Williams, 6'2" Vinnie Johnson, 6'3" Avery Bradley, all of whom were admittedly closer to scorers than pure dead eye dicks, but who played an all around game and who could heat up in a hurry off of the bench. 

For A Rookie, An Unfinished Product
Playing 20 minutes a night off the bench as a rookie

12.7 ppg
2.3 boards
2.3 assists
.886% FT
.371% Trey

Not too shabby.  And nothing to sneer at, unless of course....you just like to fart in a small room to get your sneer on. 

Still a rough jewel, but feisty, aggressive, competitive on D. 

Is he a Lead Pony? 

Could be in time, as the game slows down and he learns to play more under control, tremendous upside. 

Not surprisingly some of his best work was as a complementary, second banana to Derrick and Austin. 

He is in the mix for ROY along with LaMelo and Tyrese. 

All this and he hasn't even made it once around the league. 

We've all seen how RJ was able to raise his game with a year under his belt, and a greater sense of what his strengths were.  And a willingness to work on his weaknesses. 
Title: An Immortal
Post by: chipstern on March 22, 2021, 05:54:00 PM
ELGIN BAYLOR...

To All Those Tadpoles Who Reflexively Proclaim MJ The GOAT, Clearly, You Never Saw Elgin Baylor Transform The Small Forward Position On Both Ends Of The Floor. 

I remember seeing him play a lot as a kid, and it seemed like he just scored at will.  Inside.  Outside.  Off the driible.  Pick and roll.  Finesse.  Brute strength.  Elgin was a force of nature. 

After Chamberlain, Russell and Pettit, Elgin Was The Most Dominant, Unstoppable Player In The Game

From 1959-63, You Could Pencil Elgin In For 34 Points, 17 Boards, 4.5 Assists And 11.5 FTA Per Game Over Roughly 42.5 Minutes A Night, And Who Along With Fellow Hall Of Famer Jerry West, Led The Lakers--Playing The Brooklyn Dodgers To The Celtics' New York Yankees--To One Epic And Ultimately Heartbreaking Six Or Seven Game NBA FINALS Encounter After Another.

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSrBQPboXRef5VYtDE3UIo07ySox124ACcWsYyZx3NhMahOAUMLAxjRJQzEUh5ZbzHvlFU&usqp=CAU)

The Celtics had this Russell fellow who broke a lot of hearts, players as elevated as Wilt and the Big O. 

A Peaceful Journey, Sir.
Title: Reasons For Not Rushing Into Trades And Blowing Off Assets For SHINY OBJECTS
Post by: chipstern on March 22, 2021, 06:27:39 PM
Cavaliers haven't found taker for Andre Drummond, his attitude a reason why

As for (what the Cavs hope is) their key trade piece, last season’s leading NBA rebounder, Andre Drummond, they still can’t find any takers. What most teams would have to throw in to satisfy the salary requirements of a swap (he makes nearly $29 million) is definitely a huge hurdle for the Cavs to clear, and there are some reputational issues to consider. – via David Aldridge, Sam Amick, Joe Vardon, John Hollinger, Shams Charania,

Before the Cavs decided to bench Drummond until they could trade him, they asked him multiple times to accept playing fewer minutes, with Jarrett Allen on the roster, and even asked him to come off the bench. He refused, and there are teams that otherwise would be interested in considering a trade for him that are aware of such issues. If/when he gets a buyout, as is oft-reported, there will be a number of suitors for him. So his attitude is not a deal-breaker; it’s just a second reason to pause when most teams would also have to consider giving up rotation players just to make a trade for Drummond work – via David Aldridge, Sam Amick, Joe Vardon, John Hollinger, Shams Charania, The Athletic NBA Staff @ The Athletic

If I were the CAVS, and Drummond did not give back a substantial amount of money in a buyout, I would simply let him twiddle his thumbs. 

As for the Knicks....SERIOUSLY.  This is someone we are interested in?

God KNOWS, I hope not. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 22, 2021, 09:49:55 PM
Could be in time, as the game slows down and he learns to play more under control, tremendous upside.


I think Quicks is close to a finished product
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 22, 2021, 11:26:01 PM
Drummond's motivation and attitude have always been suspect.
______________________________________

ATL on the way to their 9th straight win.  Up 18 on the Clips.
Can't wait til they get D'Hunter back.
Btw, Hawks were up on Lakes when LeBJ got his boo-boo.
_______________________________________

IQ has that twitchy energy that reminds me of Wilkins.
It always seemed like Wilkins was coked up.
He was energy and made things happen (but also could be sloppy).

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 23, 2021, 09:43:55 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on March 22, 2021, 09:49:55 PM
Could be in time, as the game slows down and he learns to play more under control, tremendous upside.


I think Quicks is close to a finished product

Why?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 23, 2021, 10:39:25 AM
One thing is the league is starting to adjust to Quix.
You saw Danny Green know that when trailing Quickly over a screen, not to get caught directly behind IQ, and that IQ is likely to shoot a floater (doesn't pass much once in the paint), so Green got on the side of IQ and was able to block or bother his shot.  Bigger G's give IQ more trouble.

Also IQ likes to go right off screens to drive, and shoot 3's from the top of the arc.  Lately has started side-stepping to the left to get off 3's.

So as teams have by now scouted IQ and learned his tendencies, IQ will need to counter the defensive counters.

As far as improvement, I think IQ has been a better on-ball defender recently.
And has started taking some longer 3's and quick 3's, with fairly good success.
Title: IQ
Post by: carlos123 on March 23, 2021, 11:05:28 AM
Quote from: elephant on March 23, 2021, 09:43:55 AM
Quote from:  chamacocartero8 on March 22, 2021, 09:49:55 PM
Could be in time, as the game slows down and he learns to play more under control, tremendous upside.


I think Quicks is close to a finished product

Why?

You need to understand.

Why? Because Chamaco Cartero says so.
Title: Man Coulter With The Drive By Flatulence [Re: IQ]
Post by: chipstern on March 23, 2021, 01:39:14 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on March 23, 2021, 11:05:28 AM
Quote from: elephant on March 23, 2021, 09:43:55 AM
Quote from:  chamacocartero8 on March 22, 2021, 09:49:55 PM
Could be in time, as the game slows down and he learns to play more under control, tremendous upside.


I think Quicks is close to a finished product

Why?

You need to understand.

Why? Because Chamaco Cartero says so.

Ah Yes.

This is precisely why I finally put Man Coulter on IGNORE. 

Out of sight, out of mind. 

But there is, however, no sidestepping the lingering stench of his olafactoral emissions, as they resonate throughout the forum. 

The greater majority of Knicks Nation, not to mention Thibs & Our Coaching Staff, are in love with our Puppy In Training, Our Uninfished Symphony. so of course MC, in order to prove how much smarter he is than all of these deluded fans, much as when we were berated for not having the prescience as he did coming out in favor or drafting Maxey instead of Quickley and trumpeting such insights to the groundlings, never mind that Philly snapped him up several slots ahead of us.   That was what originally inspired me to say hasta la vista. 

Man Coulter is the Tucker Carlson of our Forum.

And like the Schmuckster, he loves the attention of saying outrageous things that fly in the face of evidence and feed on a troth of ignorance. 

So, the Schmuckster has proclaimed IQ a flawed and finished product. 

Meanwhile, we are long overdue for yet another analysis singing the praises of JIMMER FREDDETTE, whose upside is unlimited, who keeps getting nothing but better, and who is this close to signing a deal with a professional basketball franchise in the States, mark my words.

Any questions?

FUCK YOU, Schmuckster. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 23, 2021, 02:41:45 PM
Are the Washington Generals about to open a roster spot for Jimmer? He has the skills to help them maintain their franchise win percentage even at this late date.

MC takes being compared to Tucker as a compliment. MC admires douchebags who squander their family’s fortunes almost as much as he values white shooters who can’t shoot or do much of anything else on the court.

Leon’s big task this off-season is going to be retaining front office and coaching personnel. Everyone wants a piece of our brain trust with Payne, Woodson, and Aller all with serious opportunities in front of them already.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 23, 2021, 03:43:10 PM
Quote from: elephant on March 23, 2021, 09:43:55 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on March 22, 2021, 09:49:55 PM
Could be in time, as the game slows down and he learns to play more under control, tremendous upside.


I think Quicks is close to a finished product

Why?

Perceived skillset.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 23, 2021, 03:49:54 PM
There are some flashes of self-creation and he has the potential to be more than just a shooter. This is a nice combo to create space for the pull-up, but to do this consistently at the next level Quickley will have to improve his ball handling tremendously:



Great shooter -a s they say here


https://www.thestrick.land/strick/late-round-point-guards-part-2-immanuel-quickley-knicks-2020-nba-draft


Has already been......GREAT at this.

Thus the "finished product" label.

WAS not a point,  IS not a point.  WONT BE a point.

Shooter

And plenty NBA viable.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 23, 2021, 03:54:00 PM
Cant say a "finished product" at 17+ PER is a bad thing, especially as a #25 overall

Not sure what the alarm is.
Title: Baffling Rumor
Post by: chipstern on March 23, 2021, 04:09:14 PM
Knicks seeking a third team for Eric Bledsoe in talks for Lonzo Ball

Mike Mazzeo: In potential talks about pending Pelicans RFA PG Lonzo Ball, Knicks have been trying to find a third team to take Eric Bledsoe’s remaining deal, source says. Unclear if anything occurs before Thursday’s deadline. JJ Redick has also been linked to Knicks (w/ Nets buyout possible) – via Twitter MazzNYC


Eric Bledsoe   $16,875,000   $18,125,000   $19,375,000

Bledsoe is 31. 

Would seem the chances of finding a sutor are pretty remote. 

Bledsoe was part of a very complex four team trade. 

NOVEMBER 24, 2020

The New Orleans Pelicans announced today that the team has completed a four-team trade with the Denver Nuggets, Milwaukee Bucks, and Oklahoma City Thunder. The Pelicans have acquired Steven Adams (via Oklahoma City) and Eric Bledsoe (via Milwaukee), as well as two future first round draft picks from Milwaukee and the right two swap two additional first round picks with the Bucks. In exchange, Milwaukee has acquired Jrue Holiday and the draft rights to Sam Merrill, the 60th pick in the 2020 NBA Draft (via New Orleans); Denver has acquired the draft rights to R.J. Hampton, the 24th overall pick in the 2020 NBA Draft (via Milwaukee); and Oklahoma City has acquired a future first round draft pick (via Denver), George Hill (via Milwaukee), Zylan Cheatham, Josh Gray, Darius Miller and Kenrich Williams (via New Orleans) as well as two second round draft picks from the Pelicans (2023 via Washington, 2024 via Charlotte).

So....

As part of the Holiday Trade, the Pelicans copped two #1 draft picks as the price for taking on Bledsoe's contract. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 23, 2021, 04:36:25 PM
Might not be a matter of just taking on Bledsoe deal

Pels may be offered a player with $$ left but one they like better than Eric

Knicks give
Draft compensation, maybe a player
Pels give
Ball, Bledsoe, receive picks, better player than Bledsoe
Third team
Get Bledsoe, maybe a pick.  Give up rotation player under contract, maybe not totally earning check.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 23, 2021, 04:38:22 PM
Good news though that we are involved

This signifies that we will be making a bid should Ball not be dealt and extended
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 23, 2021, 04:39:21 PM
No

Knicks won't have Bledsoe on their roster in '21-'22.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 23, 2021, 05:13:01 PM

Re:  Bledsoe and the Pels in general

Here is the staff not getting the best from the personnel

Stan Van Gundy
Head Coach
Bob Beyer
Assistant Coach
Casey Hill
Assistant Coach
Fred Vinson
Assistant Coach
Rex Walters
Assistant Coach
Teresa Weatherspoon
Assistant Coach
Corey Brewer
Player Development Coach
Beno Udrih
Player Development Coach
Darnell Lazare
Player Development Coach
Brian Ormandy
Video Coordinator


Rag tag group, I'd say
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 23, 2021, 05:21:22 PM
A guy from my second round list makes good


Noah Levick: Paul Reed happy to win G League MVP but says he wants to stay humble and grounded. He says his teammates have been “gassing me up too much.” – via Twitter NoahLevick
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 23, 2021, 05:28:56 PM
Liking Cedi Osman for the Knicks, who could use some (off) color.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 23, 2021, 05:34:13 PM
AINGE about to cash in two number 1 picks for Aaron Gordon

One suspects this was not the big move Bankshot and Boston faithful awaited.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 23, 2021, 06:31:55 PM
DERRICK ROSE cleared to play but unavailable
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 23, 2021, 10:06:05 PM
Derrick has to build himself back up and play himself back in. Give him a minute.

Meanwhile Elf was back and the big three of Barrett, Burks, and Randle carried us through behind a monster Randle night and a vintage Mitch night and key contributions from Reggie and IQ.

These guys won’t be feeling friendly when we see them again. The trick will be beating them without it rising to the level of a brawl.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 23, 2021, 10:50:26 PM
I see you guys5 min) got a long look at AVDIJA tonight - and a short (5 min) one of Cassius Winston.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 23, 2021, 10:54:05 PM
Our big men playing just great. Barrett shooting better than he ever has. Burks showing consistent potency on the offensive end; Bullock on the D. The cunning young Quickley. And then there's Julius fucking Randall.

I've got no complaints. It's a good team. They play hard. They will get better.

There's no trade I'm dreaming about.
Title: Wizards
Post by: carlos123 on March 23, 2021, 10:58:14 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 23, 2021, 10:06:05 PM
Derrick has to build himself back up and play himself back in. Give him a minute.

Meanwhile Elf was back and the big three of Barrett, Burks, and Randle carried us through behind a monster Randle night and a vintage Mitch night and key contributions from Reggie and IQ.

These guys won’t be feeling friendly when we see them again. The trick will be beating them without it rising to the level of a brawl.

I'm not sure they care all that much.

It was really nice to have an easy and relaxed game for a change 😊
Title: Kanter and your Portland Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on March 24, 2021, 01:39:54 AM
Harden and the fokking Nyets beat your Portland Knicks by 4 points. Yet Enes had a +8 stellar performance with 19 points, 19 rebounds, 6 assists and 1 block. Too bad Lillard and the other Portland Knicks were not locked in like Enes and fokking Harden. He has been the most inspiring acquisition the Nyets made in a looooong time.
Title: No Moves Vs. Small Move
Post by: chipstern on March 24, 2021, 10:31:20 AM
Quote from: elephant on March 23, 2021, 10:54:05 PM
Our big men playing just great. Barrett shooting better than he ever has. Burks showing consistent potency on the offensive end; Bullock on the D. The cunning young Quickley. And then there's Julius fucking Randall.

I've got no complaints. It's a good team. They play hard. They will get better.

There's no trade I'm dreaming about.

Thank you. 

PS: If we waive-trade-buyout Rivers, there is talk--TALK--that the Pelicans might by out Reddick.  That's a veteran, a positive influencer, with a skill set which could benefit us on the court and in practice, particularly for our puppies such as Barrett and Quickley and the Earthly Remains Of Frank, among others.  Reddick is one of the great three point shooters and free throw makers in league history.  A small move, at best, but Reddick is looking to be closer to his NYC metropolitan area home.  If it happens, would be nice.  If not, we will get by with what we have.  In any event, it would not sunder chemistry.  And Thibs likes good ball players, veteran ball players....SO....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 24, 2021, 11:02:55 AM
You'd think Redick could hook up with a contender.

Just catching a replay.  On to the 2Q.

Does Westbrook actually give a shit?

Julius was shooting lights out.
Box shows he went a ridic 7-10 on 3's.
But some of his long 2's he made look easy.
Just in a great scoring rhythm.

In contrast Randle was out of position on D four times in the first 3 minutes, and then a few mins later fouled a guy taking a 3.  Randle was better on D earlier in the season when he was able to stay down low and help.  But teams have been exposing Julius to perimeter Bigs more and more.  I think the workload isn't doing him any favors.

Also of note: in a combined 20 minutes Knox, Toppings and Franc scored as many points as Bo did.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 24, 2021, 01:35:19 PM
Bo didn’t have a sweet dime to Reggie in the corner for 3.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 24, 2021, 02:02:29 PM
I've got no complaints. It's a good team. They play hard. They will get better.


Well, when you have been bad for so long...

Only thing is being EXCELLENT is the game, not being good.  And there are players out there who could help.

YES.  I expect a trade
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 24, 2021, 02:08:47 PM
Good Lord!


Vanessa Bryant and her daughter, Natalia, spent their Tuesday night getting new tattoos to honor Kobe and Gianna … with the help of one of the best ink artists in the biz. It appears Nikko Hurtado made a house call for his VIP clients — and hooked the Bryants up with some pretty cool body art. Vanessa — who already has several pieces from Nikko — added the word “Mambacita” to her forearm … a tribute to Gianna, who earned the nickname through her obvious basketball talents that reminded people of her dad! – via TMZ Staff @ TMZ.com
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 24, 2021, 02:14:36 PM
Tatumless, Walkerless Celts fall to Grizz.  Celts look to deal, mix it up.


https://celticswire.usatoday.com/2021/03/22/the-celtics-fight-to-force-ot-but-fall-short-in-memphis-132-126/?utm_source=MSN&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=inline-related
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 24, 2021, 02:30:44 PM
Brian Lewis: Tyler Johnson on #Nets adding Blake Griffin: “It was nice to have more light-skins on the team.” #NBA – via Twitter NYPost_Lewis




Nice!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 24, 2021, 02:42:40 PM
Kid, crawl back into your toilet and shut the lid behind you.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 24, 2021, 03:44:29 PM
Trade that wasnt

Just heard on the JUMP -


Matt Barnes and (forum fave) DARREN COLLISON from Clippers to Knicks
for
Iman Shumpert and Ray (Fattie) Felton
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 24, 2021, 04:26:38 PM
Good to have EP back, as I see the replay of the gorgeous alley-oop with MR.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 24, 2021, 05:45:13 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 24, 2021, 01:35:19 PM
Bo didn’t have a sweet dime to Reggie in the corner for 3.

Was that the one where Reg rose up and nailed it in a nanosecond?
Though I think that was off a nice Burks transition dime.
(I dozed off after the 1Q, so that's all I've seen so far).

Funny, for a blowout the Wiz started off quite well (except for Rustbrook shenanigans).
I attribute the Wiz early prowess to an uncharacteristic lax Knix 1Q defense.

Bullox & Burks have been in a pretty nice groove lately.
If they can keep it up while Elf & Rose return, could propel the Knix.
And with Noel's solid play, we have hardly missed Mitch.
Always good to have depth.

Btw, Rose acknowledged he contracted CV-19.
Said for him it was like having the Flu x 10.
Said it really kicked his ass.  Just started working out again.
The idea that CV is a breeze for young healthy people is only a generalization.
KAT who is just 25 had a similar experience as DRose (plus had family members die from CV). Hope neither of them has any long term related health issues.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 24, 2021, 06:00:04 PM
Avdija picked up 3 quick fouls, two looked pretty cheapie (I don't recall the other one).  His 3rd foul was rather minor body contact on an RJB drive.
But was Deni's own fault.  First off, he should know that Barrett wants to go left.
While clearly help was to his right, in the center of the court.
Just force RJB right.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 24, 2021, 07:12:39 PM
Easy if you have him head up - but so often RJ is already a half step ahead when he receives - tough to turn him back.  Subtle offensive edges even Clyde doesnt see.
Title: Chamaco sees everything
Post by: carlos123 on March 24, 2021, 10:23:32 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on March 24, 2021, 07:12:39 PM
Easy if you have him head up - but so often RJ is already a half step ahead when he receives - tough to turn him back.  Subtle offensive edges even Clyde doesnt see...

...But Chamaco does. Chamaco sees EVERYTHING. Oftentimes, he's THE ONLY seer.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 24, 2021, 10:55:22 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 24, 2021, 05:45:13 PM
And with Noel's solid play, we have hardly missed Mitch.
Always good to have depth.

Noel always seems to play well. I had no idea until I saw him night in and night out.

Meanwhile, I thought Robinson played great. And he looked so damn happy out there.

The game before against Philly, his first one back from the injury, he looked rough.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 24, 2021, 11:00:55 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 24, 2021, 05:45:13 PM
Btw, Rose acknowledged he contracted CV-19.
Said for him it was like having the Flu x 10.
Said it really kicked his ass.  Just started working out again.
The idea that CV is a breeze for young healthy people is only a generalization.
KAT who is just 25 had a similar experience as DRose (plus had family members die from CV). Hope neither of them has any long term related health issues.

Rose was playing at a high level.

Hopefully he'll come back pretty soon. But hearing him talk, I'm reminded that there's the chance that he might not be able to bounce back. It's happened to some other athletes with the virus. Much more of a long-term issue.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 25, 2021, 12:41:14 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on March 24, 2021, 07:12:39 PM
Easy if you have him head up - but so often RJ is already a half step ahead when he receives - tough to turn him back.  Subtle offensive edges even Clyde doesnt see.
I agree that Clyde makes forcing RJB right sound a bit too easy at times.
Kind of like don't let Westbrook drive (uh, okay).
Then again, Clyde was an excellent defender ...

But on that play Avdija was in front of RJB, and initially seemed to correctly play him a shade to the right (RJB's left).  I think that's why Barrett juked around with the ball a bunch (loosey-goosey in Clyde's phraseology) so that Avdija shifted slightly with the many fakes and surrendered a lefty drive to RJB. 

Also, RJB started from left of midcourt so going left was the most direct path to the hoop.   Further the help defender at the FT line was visible to Avidja.  Deni was in front, had time, and could see the help defender in the middle.  Sometimes you have to obviously shield a player away from their strong hand and the most obvious driving lane, letting the offender know you are trying to take that away.

Lastly imo it's young man's defense to position yourself and simply wait for the ballhandler to make the move.  A good defender is active, shifts positioning, maybe alters distance between the players, threatens with swipes or feigned swipes.  The offender has an advantage if the defender is merely reacting.  A good defender makes the ballhandler react and think.  Another aspect is knowing where the help defense is, either by visually identifying or verbal communication.
Title: Obfuscation
Post by: carlos123 on March 25, 2021, 01:02:05 AM
BoZ, I understand you wanna defend your friend Chamaco, but what you’re saying is not at all what he was saying.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 25, 2021, 01:18:53 AM
Yep, I disagreed, especially for that play.

And while don't let RJB drive left might sound facile, it should be the scouting report as Clyde correctly notes and defenders should take appropriate positioning.

When I'm playing 4 on 4 halfcourt and guarding a quicker guy with a good handle along the side, I'm going to deny baseline (especially the right, dominant-hand baseline).  In my mind is: F* you, you are not going baseline against me.  And for me, it's easier playing defense if you have general rules (such as Clyde's) ingrained in your head, as you know already what you want to accomplish and how to go about it.  Such mental preparation cuts down on thinking in the moment and allows for more reaction and readiness.

Clyde does a terrific job of boiling down basketball to simple rules.
Which are very useful when internalized.
1. See the ball, see your man (at the same time)
2. Stay down on D, don't go up for fakes
3. Don't leave your feet to make a pass
4. You play defense with your feet, not your hands
(mainly, I would add -- basically Clyde is saying the main focus of defense is stay in front of your man, and when he gets past you is when you tend to reach and foul)
5. If there's a double-team, a man is open
6. Box out (usually Clyde laments that boxing out is a lost art)
7. Keep your head up when dribbling
8. force the guy to his weakness (outside shooting; driving right, etc)
...
feel free to add more

One thing I try to drill myself is to be doing something useful on every offensive possession, during the entire possession as much as possible. Whether it's spacing the floor, moving the ball, setting a screen, cutting to get open or draw a defender, positioning for a rebound, moving to an open spot, etc. 

Maybe as a rule: do something productive at all times, don't spectate or just stand around uninvolved.  Now that can involve standing still if you are ready for a catch and shoot and/or keeping a defender occupied to space the floor.  But you should knowingly be doing something beneficial for your team at all times, not just be out there on the court.  It forces you to ask yourself, what am I doing?  what should I be doing?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 25, 2021, 01:46:05 AM
I tuned into the Nets v Jazz game and instead of the Big 3, the Nets were offering up the Little 5, with Jeff Green at starting C.
Durant still not recovered, Harden out for some reason, Kyrie flaking off.

Er, this likely not the game I want to watch.
16-4 Utah 1Q lead.
24-8 after 7 mins.
38-17 after 1Q.

End of 1Q, sub-6 foot Chris Chiozza did something I've never seen before.
He missed three 3-pointers on a single possession.  Summed up the Nets futility.

As for a Net positive, Alize Johnson went off for 23 & 15, doing Richard Jefferson's old number proud.  But I'm not watching the next 3Q's to find out how he did it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 25, 2021, 04:42:55 AM
Johnson sounds like a good versatile pickup potentially in the offseason. He’s a bigger stronger wing than any of the ones we’ve currently got.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 25, 2021, 08:02:09 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 25, 2021, 01:46:05 AM
I tuned into the Nets v Jazz game and instead of the Big 3, the Nets were offering up the Little 5, with Jeff Green at starting C.
Durant still not recovered, Harden out for some reason, Kyrie flaking off.

Er, this likely not the game I want to watch.
16-4 Utah 1Q lead.
24-8 after 7 mins.
38-17 after 1Q.

End of 1Q, sub-6 foot Chris Chiozza did something I've never seen before.
He missed three 3-pointers on a single possession.  Summed up the Nets futility.

As for a Net positive, Alize Johnson went off for 23 & 15, doing Richard Jefferson's old number proud.  But I'm not watching the next 3Q's to find out how he did it.


heh

ypu keep knocking those Nets

You will be right as to their lameness the day they are eliminated
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 25, 2021, 09:11:28 AM
Wasn't my fault Nets trotted out a backup squad on the 2nd night of a B2B v a powerhouse Utah team.
Wasn't my fault Harden hurt his neck or Kyrie had other things to do.
Wasn't my fault Chiozza missed 3 treys on one possession or that his nickname is apparently "Cheesy"

I simply thought it sounded like the best matchup of the night to watch.
I was played.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 25, 2021, 10:52:43 AM
Bo thought: Nets are better with two stars than three, must be best of all with zero stars!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 25, 2021, 12:01:56 PM
ORL dumped Vuc and Aminu to the Bulls for Otto Porter, Wendell Carter and 2 1st rounders.

Also, Fournier to BOS for 2 2nd rounders.
I'm not a big Fournier fan, he disappears at times and has been creaky, but wonder if Knix looked into that.  Seems BOS got him on the cheap.

ORL has a high payroll for a crappy team.
Vuc has played well, but hasn't contributed to winning.
Takes lots of bad lazy shots.  Wastes possessions that way.
Still, it was thought ORl was holding Vuc tight and dangling Gordon.

Not sure if Gordon will be moved too, or if he's part of the new young nucleus.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 25, 2021, 12:07:26 PM
Wow - that's a  huge Bulls deal

2 teams trying to get better

Boston deal is a FAIL for Ainge, who was trying to get Gordon with Evan.

Thanks for the news.
Title: Fingers Crossed
Post by: chipstern on March 25, 2021, 12:42:11 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 25, 2021, 12:01:56 PM
ORL dumped Vuc and Aminu to the Bulls for Otto Porter, Wendell Carter and 2 1st rounders.

Also, Fournier to BOS for 2 2nd rounders.
I'm not a big Fournier fan, he disappears at times and has been creaky, but wonder if Knix looked into that.  Seems BOS got him on the cheap.

ORL has a high payroll for a crappy team.
Vuc has played well, but hasn't contributed to winning.
Takes lots of bad lazy shots.  Wastes possessions that way.
Still, it was thought ORl was holding Vuc tight and dangling Gordon.

Not sure if Gordon will be moved too, or if he's part of the new young nucleus.

Uhh, I like Fournier but does it improve us significantly over Bullock, Burks and that RJ fellow?  Who would he take minutes away from? 

Also, is not Fournier an UFA who is making 17 million?  Would we want to SIGN him for that amount, let alone RESIGN him for more? 

Vucavic trade was interesting.

Orlando gets Wendell Carter, Porter's expiring and 2021 & 2023 top 4 protected. Chicago gets a good fit with Vuc and Aminu (who has a 10 million plus player option for next season). 

Don't see the Knicks being active in the trade market, though HoopsHype's latest rumor is the availibility of Kevin Knox.  Austin Rivers? 

Might the Knicks be players in the buyout market? 

3:00PM Beckons. 

Sometimes the best deals are the ones you don't make. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 25, 2021, 12:48:34 PM
More likely we’re players in the post buyout market once we’ve parted ways with Austin Rivers.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 25, 2021, 12:50:55 PM
The concept of Fournier always seems better than the reality.
Maybe in the right situation ... maybe in BOS (?)

Vuc is an EZ-Pass defender who wastes possessions on O, yet has lots of o-skills.

I don't like anyone on ORL, except maybe Khem Burch as a burly backup C.
Next year they start paying Fultz 3/$50M &  Isaac 4/$70M.
Yikes x 2.

Maybe we can add Otto Porter on the cheap when he's a FA.
His stock is rather low.
And I'd keep an eye on Markkanen.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 25, 2021, 01:01:38 PM
http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/262019/76ers-Agree-To-Acquire-George-Hill-From-Thunder (http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/262019/76ers-Agree-To-Acquire-George-Hill-From-Thunder)

Rivers gone in this deal. Welcome Terrance Ferguson.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 25, 2021, 01:22:18 PM
Lotta minor activity:

12:47 p.m. ET: The Toronto Raptors have made their first major move of the day, sending Norman Powell to the Portland Trail Blazers in exchange for Gary Trent Jr. and Rodney Hood.

12:46 p.m. ET: The Philadelphia 76ers are acquiring Oklahoma City Thunder guard George Hill and New York Knicks forward Ignas Brazdeikis in a three-team trade. The Thunder get Austin Rivers, Tony Bradley, and 2025 and 2026 future second-round picks (from the 76ers) and the Knicks get Terrance Ferguson.

12:40 p.m. ET: The Sacramento Kings are finalizing a deal to send Nemanja Bjelica to the Miami Heat, sources tell ESPN's Adrian Wojnarowski. Bjelica had been averaging a career-low 16.9 minutes per game for the Kings this season. Miami is sending Maurice Harkless and Chris Silva to Sacramento.

12:27 p.m. ET: The Chicago Bulls are sending Daniel Gafford and Chandler Hutchison to the Washington Wizards in exchange for Troy Brown Jr. and Moritz Wagner, sources tell ESPN's Adrian Wojnarowski.

I like Troy and Mo Wag.  Could pickups for Bulls.  Though they could use a Noel type backup C for Vuc, rather than MoWag.

I like Trent Jr.
Powell will be looking to get paid (off a good contract year on a losing team)

Knix get a look at T-Ferg.
Athletic 6'6".  Just 22.
Had a fairly good sophomore year, then I think injuries.
Not sure he plays with RJB, Bullox, Burks and franc all in the mix.
But we see what he's got.
Something in exchange for Au Revoir.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 25, 2021, 01:26:16 PM
Gordon to DEN for Gary Harris and a 1st rounder is a big move.
ORl also gets RJ Hampton.

Magic moved Vuc, Gordon and Fournier, their three best players in a span of just a few hours.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on March 25, 2021, 01:38:23 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 25, 2021, 01:01:38 PM
http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/262019/76ers-Agree-To-Acquire-George-Hill-From-Thunder (http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/262019/76ers-Agree-To-Acquire-George-Hill-From-Thunder)

Rivers gone in this deal. Welcome Terrance Ferguson.

The Philadelphia 76ers have agreed to acquire George Hill from the Oklahoma City Thunder for Tony Bradley and two future second round picks (2025 and 2026).

Austin Rivers will go to the Thunder from the New York Knicks as part of a three-team trade. The Knicks will acquire Terrance Ferguson from the 76ers. The 76ers will also acquire Iggy Brazdeikis from the Knicks as part of the deal.

Hmmm....interesting small scale deal. 

Another Brock Aller strategic shuffle.  In lieu of what if any subsequent moves we wonder. 

Iggy we hardly knew ye. 

A nice soft landing spot for Rivers, as OKC gets marginally younger, and sheds Hill's 10 million next season.  Worth noting that they already picked up Meyers Leonard, he of the Semetic references, where they can shave yet another 10 million off of their already league lowest (one step ahead of the Knicks) cap profile, by passing on their team option for him next season. 

So....we open up a roster spot, and Ferguson inherits Brazdeikis' spot on the bench next to Theo Pinson.   

Terrence Ferguson making 3.9 million this season, and we could retain OR NOT, by picking up his qualifying offer of 5.6 for next season.  Was this simply a gentlemanly way of accomodating Austin? 

Or does this presage other tactical moves?  Adding Iggy to the deal divests us a of a 1.7 team option on Iggy for next season. 

Would seem to be a nice move for Philly. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on March 25, 2021, 01:43:25 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 25, 2021, 01:26:16 PM
Gordon to DEN for Gary Harris and a 1st rounder is a big move.
ORl also gets RJ Hampton.

Magic moved Vuc, Gordon and Fournier, their three best players in a span of just a few hours.

They weren't winning with their three best, so ces la vis, time to retool and gather draft picks. 

And as per Facil's sugar plum fantasies, MO BAMBA just moved significantly up the Magic food chain.  Even with the arrival of Wendell Carter, who might be better suited to the 4-spot. 

Title: This Just In
Post by: chipstern on March 25, 2021, 01:47:07 PM
Steve Popper: Hearing that the Knicks are also picking up Philadelphia’s 2nd round pick this year in the Rivers-Brazdeikis 3-way deal. – via Twitter StevePopper

Okay, that makes a little more sense, as per Brazdeikis' inclusion. 
Title: TICK TOCK
Post by: chipstern on March 25, 2021, 01:50:13 PM
(https://64.media.tumblr.com/01ef5e062486d40fdb9b453385f0a514/tumblr_ojb669bLbs1s2wio8o2_500.gifv)

Do

NO

Harm
Title: THIS JUST IN
Post by: chipstern on March 25, 2021, 01:59:00 PM
Kyle Neubeck: The full Sixers-Thunder-Knicks deal, per league source: Philly gets: George Hill, Iggy Brazdeikis OKC gets: Tony Bradley, Philly’s 2nd round picks in 2025 and 2026, and Austin Rivers Knicks get: Terrance Ferguson, Vincent Poirier, 2021 2nd round pick from Philly – via Twitter KyleNeubeck
Title: Re: THIS JUST IN
Post by: chipstern on March 25, 2021, 02:01:02 PM
Quote from: chipstern on March 25, 2021, 01:59:00 PM
Kyle Neubeck: The full Sixers-Thunder-Knicks deal, per league source: Philly gets: George Hill, Iggy Brazdeikis OKC gets: Tony Bradley, Philly’s 2nd round picks in 2025 and 2026, and Austin Rivers Knicks get: Terrance Ferguson, Vincent Poirier, 2021 2nd round pick from Philly – via Twitter KyleNeubeck

Poirier is a 27 year old 7'0" center from France, who has apparently had some COVID issues of late.  One season with Boston and part of this year with Philly. 

On July 15, 2019, Poirier parted ways with Baskonia to sign a contract with the Boston Celtics.

On November 19, 2020, Poirier was traded to the Oklahoma City Thunder for a conditional future second-round pick. On December 8, Poirier, along with Danny Green and Terrance Ferguson, were traded to the Philadelphia 76ers.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/poirivi01.html (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/poirivi01.html)

Well, here's the center you've been coveting, Facil. 
Title: Assets?
Post by: chipstern on March 25, 2021, 02:05:45 PM
StatMuse: OKC now have 34 picks in the next 7 drafts. There are only 30 teams in the league. pic.twitter.com/MVMVnlzV4g – via Twitter statmuse
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 25, 2021, 02:06:25 PM
Magic added Wendell Cartero, Gary Harris, Otto Porter, RJ Hampton and 2 Bulls 1st rounders, which should be pretty good picks, plus a 2025 DEN 1st which will likely be in the 20's.

Fultz  - Gary Harris - Jon Isaac - Otto Porter - Carter
Cole Ant - RJ Hampton - TRoss - Mo Bomba  - KhemBirch

Looks pretty scattered.
Like the usual stuff the Bulls or Magic trot out ...

Better hope they hit on their own and the Bulls 1st rounders.
Title: Re: THIS JUST IN
Post by: facilitatorn on March 25, 2021, 02:14:53 PM
Quote from: chipstern on March 25, 2021, 02:01:02 PM
Quote from: chipstern on March 25, 2021, 01:59:00 PM
Kyle Neubeck: The full Sixers-Thunder-Knicks deal, per league source: Philly gets: George Hill, Iggy Brazdeikis OKC gets: Tony Bradley, Philly’s 2nd round picks in 2025 and 2026, and Austin Rivers Knicks get: Terrance Ferguson, Vincent Poirier, 2021 2nd round pick from Philly – via Twitter KyleNeubeck

Poirier is a 27 year old 7'0" center from France, who has apparently had some COVID issues of late.  One season with Boston and part of this year with Philly. 

On July 15, 2019, Poirier parted ways with Baskonia to sign a contract with the Boston Celtics.

On November 19, 2020, Poirier was traded to the Oklahoma City Thunder for a conditional future second-round pick. On December 8, Poirier, along with Danny Green and Terrance Ferguson, were traded to the Philadelphia 76ers.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/poirivi01.html (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/poirivi01.html)

Well, here's the center you've been coveting, Facil.

Yup. He completely makes the deal for me. Upgrade at wing from Iggy to Fergie while relieving guard glut and adding a skilled and nasty big man, all while acquiring another draft pick.

Leon Rose is a beast.

We might not be done playing third party and picking up loose change.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 25, 2021, 02:33:05 PM
One write-up noted that of the 24 players who have guarded 200 or more shots at the rim (within 5'), Vuc was 20th giving up 63.4% FG. 

So I followed the link:
Nerlins at 52.5% is 8th of 24, a hair ahead of Gobert and a smidge behind Embiid.
Dead last is Kanter offering up 69% FG.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 25, 2021, 02:37:34 PM
OK, lets go!!!!!

Ntlikina, Knox and Mavs #1

Get me Lonzo!  Make this a REALLLLLL fun year
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 25, 2021, 02:39:06 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 25, 2021, 12:50:55 PM
The concept of Fournier always seems better than the reality.
Maybe in the right situation ... maybe in BOS (?)

Vuc is an EZ-Pass defender who wastes possessions on O, yet has lots of o-skills.

I don't like anyone on ORL, except maybe Khem Burch as a burly backup C.
Next year they start paying Fultz 3/$50M &  Isaac 4/$70M.
Yikes x 2.

Maybe we can add Otto Porter on the cheap when he's a FA.
His stock is rather low.
And I'd keep an eye on Markkanen.

Vuc-Markkanen will be interesting to watch.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 25, 2021, 02:45:25 PM
Knicks interest in Drummond confirmed

Also looking at.........DEROZEN?   Hmmmm.....

https://fortyeightminutes.com/trade-rumors-gordon-drummond-ball-markkanen-young-derozan/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=trade-rumors-gordon-drummond-ball-markkanen-young-derozan
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 25, 2021, 02:57:34 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 25, 2021, 02:06:25 PM
Magic added Wendell Cartero, Gary Harris, Otto Porter, RJ Hampton and 2 Bulls 1st rounders, which should be pretty good picks, plus a 2025 DEN 1st which will likely be in the 20's.

Fultz  - Gary Harris - Jon Isaac - Otto Porter - Carter
Cole Ant - RJ Hampton - TRoss - Mo Bomba  - KhemBirch

Looks pretty scattered.
Like the usual stuff the Bulls or Magic trot out ...

Better hope they hit on their own and the Bulls 1st rounders.

Why would ORL pay to keep Porter?
Title: Tick Tock THREE oClock
Post by: chipstern on March 25, 2021, 03:04:22 PM
Fultz and Isaac on the mend and likely out for the year.

Porter an expiring contract. 

Cater and Bomba potentially a nice platoon at center. 

Out with the old in with the new.  A clean sweep. 
Title: Meanwhile...
Post by: chipstern on March 25, 2021, 03:05:14 PM
Cippers offload two second round picks and Lou Williams for Rajon Rondo. 

Making their push. 
Title: Re: Tick Tock THREE oClock
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 25, 2021, 03:10:48 PM
Quote from: chipstern on March 25, 2021, 03:04:22 PM
Fultz and Isaac on the mend and likely out for the year.

Porter an expiring contract. 

Cater and Bomba potentially a nice platoon at center. 

Out with the old in with the new.  A clean sweep.

I like what ORL did

If that is their second unit.......?  Not bad.

What starter can they buy with the Porter money?  We will see.  Draft picks add to depth if they dont start.
Title: Re: Meanwhile...
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 25, 2021, 03:11:29 PM
Quote from: chipstern on March 25, 2021, 03:05:14 PM
Cippers offload two second round picks and Lou Williams for Rajon Rondo. 

Making their push.

That means they arent getting Ball
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 25, 2021, 03:16:09 PM
Lakers close on LOWRY - but said to be holding on dearly to Taylor Horton .  Schroder would also go to Raps
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 25, 2021, 03:20:39 PM
Hearing Bullock out tonight.  Anyone confirm?
Title: Praise The Lord
Post by: chipstern on March 25, 2021, 03:23:43 PM
Thanks be to

GOD

We didn't go all in for any shiny objects like friggin' Oladipo. 

Keeping our powder dry come summer, when we could conceivably make a push for Lonzo Ball. 

Or heretofore unrevealed possibilities. 

Whomever comprises the Knicks brain trust...Aller, Perrin, Perry, Wes, one would think Neon Leon makes the final call. 

Poking around on the internet regarding the 22 year old Ferguson, the word is that he is an athletic 6'6" wing, a very capable defender, and of questionable offensive virtues. 

Poirier did time with the Celtics and the French National Team, where he played with Ntiliknia.

And Philly's #2 pick this summer, which while in and of itself does not set the salivaries a-juicing, could conceivably be packaged with Detroit's #2. 

As we speak,  NY is outside of the LOTTERY BUBBLE, sitting on the #17, #20, #32 and #46 picks. 
Title: Miami Vice
Post by: chipstern on March 25, 2021, 03:56:59 PM
The Houston Rockets are trading Victor Oladipo to the Miami Heat, according to ESPN's Adrian Wojnarowski. The Heat are sending back Kelly Olynyk, Avery Bradley and a draft swap, per The Athletic's Shams Charania.

Got to hand it to Pat Riley. 

If they land LaMarcus as a FA buyout, well....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 25, 2021, 04:18:18 PM
 17, 20, and 32 Might get us into the top 8.

NO mugged Dallas which I was very glad to see.

Very happy with our haul. Rivers and Iggy won’t have to be situational anymore.

Going to find some VP highlights.
Title: Re: Praise The Lord
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 25, 2021, 04:20:49 PM
Quote from: chipstern on March 25, 2021, 03:23:43 PM
Thanks be to

GOD

We didn't go all in for any shiny objects like friggin' Oladipo. 

Keeping our powder dry come summer, when we could conceivably make a push for Lonzo Ball. 

Or heretofore unrevealed possibilities. 

Whomever comprises the Knicks brain trust...Aller, Perrin, Perry, Wes, one would think Neon Leon makes the final call. 

Poking around on the internet regarding the 22 year old Ferguson, the word is that he is an athletic 6'6" wing, a very capable defender, and of questionable offensive virtues. 

Poirier did time with the Celtics and the French National Team, where he played with Ntiliknia.

And Philly's #2 pick this summer, which while in and of itself does not set the salivaries a-juicing, could conceivably be packaged with Detroit's #2. 

As we speak,  NY is outside of the LOTTERY BUBBLE, sitting on the #17, #20, #32 and #46 picks. 

Isn't this what we didn't want?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 25, 2021, 04:32:34 PM
Celtics get seemingly worse to avoid tax.  Theis out.  Wagner in.
Title: Whaaaaaaaaat?
Post by: carlos123 on March 25, 2021, 04:46:16 PM
Quote from: BoZizzley on March 25, 2021, 02:06:25 PM
Magic added Wendell Cartero, Gary Harris, Otto Porter, RJ Hampton and 2 Bulls 1st rounders, which should be pretty good picks, plus a 2025 DEN 1st which will likely be in the 20's.


BoZ, there's only one Cartero around here, and his first name ain't Wendell.
Title: Re: THIS JUST IN... REALLY?
Post by: carlos123 on March 25, 2021, 04:48:45 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 25, 2021, 02:14:53 PM
Quote from: chipstern on March 25, 2021, 02:01:02 PM
Quote from: chipstern on March 25, 2021, 01:59:00 PM
Kyle Neubeck: The full Sixers-Thunder-Knicks deal, per league source: Philly gets: George Hill, Iggy Brazdeikis OKC gets: Tony Bradley, Philly’s 2nd round picks in 2025 and 2026, and Austin Rivers Knicks get: Terrance Ferguson, Vincent Poirier, 2021 2nd round pick from Philly – via Twitter KyleNeubeck

Poirier is a 27 year old 7'0" center from France, who has apparently had some COVID issues of late.  One season with Boston and part of this year with Philly. 

On July 15, 2019, Poirier parted ways with Baskonia to sign a contract with the Boston Celtics.

On November 19, 2020, Poirier was traded to the Oklahoma City Thunder for a conditional future second-round pick. On December 8, Poirier, along with Danny Green and Terrance Ferguson, were traded to the Philadelphia 76ers.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/poirivi01.html (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/poirivi01.html)

Well, here's the center you've been coveting, Facil.

Yup. He completely makes the deal for me. Upgrade at wing from Iggy to Fergie while relieving guard glut and adding a skilled and nasty big man, all while acquiring another draft pick.

Leon Rose is a beast.

We might not be done playing third party and picking up loose change.

Fac, I thought it was Mo or nothing for you.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 25, 2021, 04:57:35 PM
It pays to be flexible, Los.

I’m glad we kept all our useful players.

Kornet can beat out Wagner for time in Boston, behind Williams of course.

I’m not sure who won the day league wide.  Denver is my early favorite at this point.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 25, 2021, 05:27:48 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 25, 2021, 02:33:05 PM
One write-up noted that of the 24 players who have guarded 200 or more shots at the rim (within 5'), Vuc was 20th giving up 63.4% FG. 

So I followed the link:
Nerlins at 52.5% is 8th of 24, a hair ahead of Gobert and a smidge behind Embiid.
Dead last is Kanter offering up 69% FG.

Carlos' face after reading Bo's post

(https://external-preview.redd.it/Fz-vlwfVuBzsqIOcqx8q-O3vtL4xvqGx-xDj2EiGv5M.jpg?auto=webp&s=d4db41ea6ece5f7583733fdf7983668beb6fd565)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 25, 2021, 05:35:18 PM
Quote from: Kam on March 21, 2021, 01:52:55 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on March 21, 2021, 12:33:06 PM
Quote from: Kam on March 21, 2021, 02:16:39 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 20, 2021, 05:16:06 PM
I wouldn’t go that far yet. They are definitely better and more fun to watch. I give them a lot of credit for having gotten that far already. There’s still a lot more building left to go.

“As constructed” doesn’t mean no more building.  Just means the materials for the build are mostly in place. I am including the near-future picks in my assessment and maybe a minor free agent or two with cap. 

In other words ... no trades.  Except the ones Brock Aller deems  prudent for the balance sheet.

No trades

Real smart

So the players you are adding in the draft and free agency just either sit the bench or send current players there, rather than get assets back for them?

Or are you going 12-13 deep next year?

Trades deemed cap wise by Aller- Yes.  Like a trade of a player we don’t want on the cap for a less expensive player or a future pick.

Trades where we send out picks to make a playoff push - No.


(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/AggravatingTinyIndianglassfish-max-1mb.gif)(https://media.tenor.com/images/2ef4fc020af9160bc917feb72a997b7c/tenor.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on March 25, 2021, 05:40:16 PM
Do no harm...how refreshing! 

I wonder where all of that misinformation about Drummond came from, and did he actually end up going anywhere.  Chris Herring wrote an interring piece in SI about the demise of high level rebounder....https://www.si.com/nba/2021/03/25/andre-drummond-rebounding-daily-cover (https://www.si.com/nba/2021/03/25/andre-drummond-rebounding-daily-cover)

I suspect tonight will not be a walk in the park like last time...
Title: Enes & Kam(s)ter
Post by: carlos123 on March 25, 2021, 05:42:13 PM
Quote from: Kam on March 25, 2021, 05:27:48 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 25, 2021, 02:33:05 PM
One write-up noted that of the 24 players who have guarded 200 or more shots at the rim (within 5'), Vuc was 20th giving up 63.4% FG. 

So I followed the link:
Nerlins at 52.5% is 8th of 24, a hair ahead of Gobert and a smidge behind Embiid.
Dead last is Kanter offering up 69% FG.

Carlos' face after reading Bo's post

(https://external-preview.redd.it/Fz-vlwfVuBzsqIOcqx8q-O3vtL4xvqGx-xDj2EiGv5M.jpg?auto=webp&s=d4db41ea6ece5f7583733fdf7983668beb6fd565)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3e5mlBwBlnMb46sMABkXKo-bYeeE-mEg0L4_b_N9SHR9vR011E3QSZsTA9fogQFtPkl82Y7vvyBDnPi5Siuh3r4tJx4NnAtvlE6aPo94tAVVK1q4NWPUKYVzYGzaBrY59UBDYnscnkNz4anVW7cQzls=w1136-h757-no?authuser=0)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 25, 2021, 06:15:46 PM
Winners:


DALLAS

MIAMI

CHICAGO

and eventually..... GOLDEN STATE

Even Charlotte gets better, adding Wanamaker



Knicks get worse, losing Rivers
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 25, 2021, 07:25:12 PM
Dallas and Chicago improved their draft position by dismantling their D. Miami didn’t give up much for Dipo so maybe they did OK. For GS it will depend on how they do in the buyout market.

Title: Re: Wizards
Post by: facilitatorn on March 25, 2021, 08:41:06 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on March 23, 2021, 10:58:14 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 23, 2021, 10:06:05 PM
Derrick has to build himself back up and play himself back in. Give him a minute.

Meanwhile Elf was back and the big three of Barrett, Burks, and Randle carried us through behind a monster Randle night and a vintage Mitch night and key contributions from Reggie and IQ.

These guys won’t be feeling friendly when we see them again. The trick will be beating them without it rising to the level of a brawl.

I'm not sure they care all that much.

It was really nice to have an easy and relaxed game for a change 😊

Hmmm...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 25, 2021, 08:53:44 PM
Guess the small lineup giving us fits.......

Missing Reggie?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 25, 2021, 08:56:01 PM
Frank started at the 2?

We will just have to live with occasional brainfartery by Thibs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 25, 2021, 08:59:45 PM
The Peyton-Frank juggernaut strikes fear in the opposition!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 25, 2021, 09:23:26 PM
Please - nobody kid themselves that we didnt want to deal Frank.

No taker for the offense faker
Title: NO QUIT !!!
Post by: carlos123 on March 25, 2021, 10:05:54 PM
No quit in this team.

Love it!!!

Tough first half, but it was worth it.

Fac, say whaaaaaat?
Title: ENES THE MENACE!!!
Post by: carlos123 on March 25, 2021, 10:10:18 PM
Hey Kamster, just for you:

Your Portland Knicks just beat the Miami F'in Heat.

Enes with a team-best +21, 18 points and 16 rebounds.

Just another day at the office 😉
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 25, 2021, 10:20:15 PM
Pretty clear that Franc & Knox are not Thibs guys.
But also we never built up their value.
Kings added a couple extra G's.  But really could have used a G defender such as Franc.  Since Fox & Hield are indifferent defenders.
But they moved on from Cory Joe, so who knows what they think.

The more interesting question is whether we fielded offers or had talks involving ObiT!
_____________________________

Otherwise I merely listed what ORL has now under contract.
Not sure what their plans are, but expect they'll see if OP3 fits for them, his health, and might be in the bidding.
Building a team around Fultz & Isaac sure is an extremely risky proposition.
I'd call them a perennial mess.
_____________________________________________________

I figured Mo Wag made little sense behind Vuc. Theis a nice pickup.  Weird move for BOS.  Theis plays hard and smart.  Mo Vag has some nascent skills and needs more court time, but still in the rawish stage.
__________________________________________

Adding Oladipo on the cheapo is interesting for MIA>
But I don't like losing both Myers Leopard and Kelly O'Nick.  Never hurts to have a 7' who can shoot 3's.
Olynyk in particular can go on these weird scoring jags in big games.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 25, 2021, 10:27:28 PM
Looks like the start of a big night for Haliburton (8 in first, 2 3s)

WISEMAN started that game and will start the remainder according to Kerr

Nice rookie matchup
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 25, 2021, 10:35:54 PM
Really enjoy watching Ty Halibut.  Last game v. ATL he scored 8 in the 4Q.
But he was just active and involved. 

Hield backrimmed a 3, the long rebound sailing over Whiteside and going to Capela, until TyH just flew in and snagged it from behind Capela.  Tied 94-all with 5:30 or so left and the shot clock running down, TyH rises up gets bumped by Huerter and nails the shot for a 4 point play.  Two minutes later has Trae guarding him, TY comes across the middle, pauses and executes a FT line turnaround over the shorty.  Made a pair of late FT's to seal it.  TyH also made mistakes, 3 4Q turnovers including a weird palming right after that superb rebound.  But he's smart and active.  Had one late 4Q play where he dribbled across to the right elbow and then fired a pass to the left corner.  Just not a rookie pass.  Fun player to watch.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 25, 2021, 10:55:24 PM
Building a team around Fultz & Isaac sure is an extremely risky proposition.
I'd call them a perennial mess.

OK

I certainly dont project them top 4 in East any time soon
Title: One more for Chamaco
Post by: carlos123 on March 25, 2021, 11:02:54 PM
You guys know why Chamaco is now promoting -Buy Coke-?

Well, there it is: Black churches in Georgia like the AME are boycotting Coca Cola for not opposing the new republican restrictions to voting, blatantly aimed at suppressing the Black vote.

So Chamaco wants everybody to -Buy Coke-. This guy is REPULSIVE!
Title: Re: One more for Chamaco
Post by: elephant on March 25, 2021, 11:17:22 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on March 25, 2021, 11:02:54 PM
You guys know why Chamaco is now promoting -Buy Coke-?

Well, there it is: Black churches in Georgia like the AME are boycotting Coca Cola for not opposing the new republican restrictions to voting, blatantly aimed at suppressing the Black vote.

So Chamaco wants everybody to -Buy Coke-. This guy is REPULSIVE!

Biden tonight called the push to restrict citizens from voting "sick" and "unAmerican."

The old guy is right on the money on this one.

There's no defense for these measures. They harken back to the era/s when American minorities were consistently deprived of the right to vote. It was grotesque and still is.

I imagine the last thing Coke wants is its product linked to Jim Crow racism. Looking forward to what happens next.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 25, 2021, 11:18:24 PM
Oh come on, kiid is just a Constitutional originalist ...


Wise Man with 0 1st half points and 4 turnovers.  No PG to help him.
Er...
Kinda sad that GSW ditched useful cogs Chriss and Wanamaker to save nearly $20M in lux tax.

TyH averaging nearly 5 4Q points on the season.
Title: You’re so funny
Post by: carlos123 on March 25, 2021, 11:28:32 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 25, 2021, 11:18:24 PM
Oh come on, kiid is just a Constitutional originalist ...

Wise Man with 0 1st half points and 4 turnovers.  No PG to help him.


Yeah, like Ted Cruz and Trumptin.

Who’s Wise Man?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 25, 2021, 11:41:27 PM
Can I hear more about Alec Burks' poor D?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 26, 2021, 12:18:43 AM
Will try to see the game later.
But Burks is the worst defender of our main 8 rotational players.  Randle 7th.

Looks like both teams fouled a lot.
And 24 combined missed FT's.

Usually I try to watch the reply without knowing who won.
But it was just the Wiz.

Westbrook trying to answer the question: is it possible to have a bad season while averaging a 20 point triple double?

Wise Man = Wiseman ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 26, 2021, 12:37:17 AM
But Burks is the worst defender of our main 8 rotational players.  Randle 7th.


NOBODY FUCKING CARES
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 26, 2021, 12:40:40 AM
Somebody's had too much coke ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 26, 2021, 12:47:21 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 26, 2021, 12:18:43 AM
Will try to see the game later.
But Burks is the worst defender of our main 8 rotational players.  Randle 7th.

Maybe.

But without him, I wonder what our record would be.

Tonight's win, for sure, is a loss without him. And it's not the first time.

The guy knows how to make an impact.
Title: Which goes to prove...
Post by: carlos123 on March 26, 2021, 01:05:07 AM
Quote from: BoZizzley on March 26, 2021, 12:18:43 AM

Wise Man = Wiseman ...

...that BoZ can in fact write the actual name of players.

But only if you push the right button  😂
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 26, 2021, 01:15:34 AM
Huge game (career high?) from D Fox.

Excellent player
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 26, 2021, 01:50:58 AM
Burks is excellent defending off guards and smaller wings. He has trouble against bigger and more athletic guys. He’s got more technique than pop defensively.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 26, 2021, 02:10:12 AM
His on ball D is okay.
But he's poor on rotations, bad on closeouts and loses guys who go in motion.

Randle and Burks have played well this year.  And helped win games single-handedly.  But when there's a defensive breakdown, it's usually one of those two.  I've noted that teams have taken to forcing Randle to defend in space on the perimeter. 

If we want to be more than a .500 team, these small issues are important.

And yes, the flipside is NYK can/should improve their offense.  I can also note Elf's weak 3-point shooting, Noel and Mitch's lack of range, RJB's inconsistency, Bullox sometimes offensive passivity -- and I've mentioned all those in the past -- but those are more obvious player limitations that everyone is fully aware of.

But I'm largely convinced that a bona fide starting PG would rev up the offense.  And that that's mainly the issue on O.
Wonder if our 1st round pick (Obit or TyH) and Knox + Franc could have gotten LaMelo.  Wonder how our team would be if we drafted a winner such as TyH ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 26, 2021, 02:10:50 AM
More help for you Czarlos:

kiid = nobody
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 26, 2021, 02:58:36 AM
Only time to watch the first 6 minutes, but Randle's D gets a D- so far
2 bad defensive plays
- late Randle rotation resulting in a poor foul on a Len roll to the hoop
- lazily getting back in transition allowing an easy Wiz fastbreak with 6 mins left.

3 other iffy plays on D
- not coming out for a Beal and later a Westbrook midrange J
- slow at getting back in transition after his man Len released; Franc was back but the pass just went over Franc.

Pluses:
- first possession Randle did double Westbrook and deflected his pass out, but Wiz retained.
- on a Beal drive Randle did rotate early and was in good position, but couldn't stop Beal

Knix were down 18-9 and Randle's D part of the reason.  He also had a poor defensive 1Q last game v. Wiz.  the other main Knick defensive miscue was RJB fouling a 3-point shot.  But usually his closeouts are textbook.  RJB got off to a rough start, missing a pair of 3's and gviing Wiz 3 FT's.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 26, 2021, 03:57:15 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 26, 2021, 02:10:12 AM
But I'm largely convinced that a bona fide starting PG would rev up the offense.  And that that's mainly the issue on O.

You’ve gotten a few brief glimpses with Rose out there. I thought it looked pretty good.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 26, 2021, 10:40:33 AM
Randle and Burks have played well this year.  And helped win games single-handedly.  But when there's a defensive breakdown, it's usually one of those two.  I've noted that teams have taken to forcing Randle to defend in space on the perimeter.

Good awareness

Both very valuable players who will be retained (if not in Randle's case dealt for value)

Who, given their overall game, should be here moving forward.  (If we let AB go, Leon has failed)

All the dissecting is fluff that can be debated - but nobody wants to go back at you in  this space - sorry - its just not worth it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 26, 2021, 10:44:37 AM
But I'm largely convinced that a bona fide starting PG would rev up the offense.


Lonzo, come on down.

In your opinion, how many exist across the NBA?  And are some that are NOT "bona fide" capable of becoming so? 

I'd remind you that you were BEHIND not adding certain PG studs - due to cost.

You have also degraded some pretty darn good players at the position, such as Schroder - in the past - if I recall correctly
Title: The Revenge of BoZ
Post by: carlos123 on March 26, 2021, 12:46:31 PM
Quote from: BoZizzley on March 26, 2021, 02:10:50 AM
More help for you Czarlos:

kiid = nobody

He is and will always be CHAMACO CARTERO.

He hates nothing more than being called a Mexican name.

Well, maybe he hates me more by now 😁
Title: Re: The Revenge of BoZ
Post by: chipstern on March 26, 2021, 12:51:29 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on March 26, 2021, 12:46:31 PM
Quote from: BoZizzley on March 26, 2021, 02:10:50 AM
More help for you Czarlos:

kiid = nobody

He is and will always be CHAMACO CARTERO.

He hates nothing more than being called a Mexican name.

Well, maybe he hates me more by now 😁

(https://i1.wp.com/obliviots.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/MSI-Large.jpg?ssl=1)
Title: Loco Cola
Post by: chipstern on March 26, 2021, 01:07:03 PM
(https://external-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/safe_image.php?d=AQEsK3dKSEdAZ-TS&w=500&h=261&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Fresizer%2Fid_V9WtSU_7UQN18wDAAt5SKB-s%3D%2F1200x0%2Farc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-thelily-washpost.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2FIOC6WSAOCNFUZFMNGRNOP66RGU.jpg&cfs=1&ext=jpg&ccb=3-4&_nc_hash=AQGfDpSCocntF611)

https://www.thelily.com/49-of-republican-men-say-they-wont-get-vaccinated-these-wives-and-daughters-are-on-a-mission-to-change-their-minds/?fbclid=IwAR2t96grR6nnK6U5kEBnUfEW4cWbzmed8ijOvyWw9yfrZmfZWJRawytqm5w (https://www.thelily.com/49-of-republican-men-say-they-wont-get-vaccinated-these-wives-and-daughters-are-on-a-mission-to-change-their-minds/?fbclid=IwAR2t96grR6nnK6U5kEBnUfEW4cWbzmed8ijOvyWw9yfrZmfZWJRawytqm5w)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 26, 2021, 01:09:56 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on March 26, 2021, 10:44:37 AM
In your opinion, how many exist across the NBA?

Lots.  I'd be up for Lonzo.

Quote
And are some that are NOT "bona fide" capable of becoming so? 
I'm always on the lookout for backup Pg's who could thrive as starting PG's with more experience.  Back a-ways, I was interested in LAC Bledsoe; MEMf Lowry; OKC RegJax, etc.  Wanted to get Rubio, Dragic and later Brogdon.  Trying to keep an eye on Brunson these days.  Trying to figure out his ceiling.  Nice player.

Quote
I'd remind you that you were BEHIND not adding certain PG studs - due to cost.
Our team was in poor shape.  I'd be more open to adding an expensive CP3 or Lowry to a near-.500 team, than to a .340 win team.  But I'd rather look for someone younger.

Quote
You have also degraded some pretty darn good players at the position, such as Schroder - in the past - if I recall correctly

You'd want Shroder as NYK PG?
This is only his 3rd year starting in an 8-yera career, and LeBJ is the main facilitator.  Dennis only had two good seasons, one in ATL in his 4th year and last year with OKC when he was a backup playing mostly SG next to other PG's.

A very quick driver.  Not much on defense.  Sloppy at times.  A career 33% 3-point shooter.  Just 31% this year.  Last year was his only year above league average on 3's.  He's best as a backup PG and is mostly a scoring SG in a PG body.
I'd prefer the much cheaper, better shooting, better defending, younger IQ.
I see those two as fairly comparable.  Overall, I find Shroder erratic and unreliable.  Quickly is to, but that's to be expected from a rook.

Fwiw, LAL was willing to trade Shroder, though partly that's because he is looking for a $20M per year extension.  Anyone think the Knix should give Shroder (27) a 4/$80+M contract?  I definitely would not.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 26, 2021, 01:25:46 PM
ObiT hasn't scored in the last 6 games.
Turns 24 next week.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 26, 2021, 01:37:57 PM
Hard pass on Schroeder. Thanks all the same.

I very much like our current roster post trade. I hope we hang on to VP. He’s more than just a tall guy with a good beard. He can do drop coverage, trench warfare, and the high pick game. It’s his third year in the league, but his 12th or 13th as a pro coming from the European system. Terrance could be ready for Thibs now. VP lets Randle play with another floor stretching big. That should be worth a look. It also frees up Taj to spell Randle adding a little punch to our second unit. Poirier is also a recent plant in Brad and Doc’s locker rooms, which never hurts in a series should one occur. Counting on the Lakers to take Drummond off our plate at least in the short term.

Mitch Noel Poirier
Randle Taj Obi
Bullock Knox Ferguson
Barrett Burks Frank
Rose Quickley Payton

Every player on the roster now brings a high degree of athletic force and a decent amount of skill. I wish this was a year we could actually practice, but I think we can still make a nice push.

I need nine more wins to hit my number.

Who among our prognosticators have already seen their predictions surpassed? I remember being on the more optimistic arc of the curve when we started this season.

Title: Off with BoZ's head?
Post by: carlos123 on March 26, 2021, 01:43:33 PM
Quote from: BoZizzley on March 26, 2021, 01:25:46 PM
ObiT hasn't scored in the last 6 games.
Turns 24 next week.

BoZ, you ain't calling him a bust, are you?

I did that with Knox a few months back, and Chip wanted to send me to a Chinese prison camp or a Russian reeducation center, I forgot which.

PS. I still think Knox is a bust. I'll give Toppin until next year.
Czarlos, you're crazy 😜 , you did it again!!!
Title: Knicks prognosticators
Post by: carlos123 on March 26, 2021, 01:53:59 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 26, 2021, 01:37:57 PM

I need nine more wins to hit my number.

Who among our prognosticators have already seen their predictions surpassed? I remember being on the more optimistic arc of the curve when we started this season.

I don't remember my number, but I'm sure it's been surpassed by a lot already.

So glad I was DEAD WRONG.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 26, 2021, 02:06:08 PM
Thought ObiT was a blown pick from the get-go.

Avdija looked pretty bad in the 2 games v, NYK.
Didn't seem to be able to defend anyone without fouling.
Low energy.  When he finally made a forceful play, Taj blocked his baseline drive-dunk attempt.  Just doesn't play at NBA speed.

OBiT and Avdija were touted as the most NBA ready rooks (though not high-ceiling players).  Both have struggled more than expected.  Seem to get out of sorts and lose some confidence.   Both have disappointed so far.

Quote
Boston, which also ducked out of the luxury tax by sending starting center Daniel Theis to the Chicago Bulls in a separate deal, has underwhelmed at both ends this season, with Ainge singling out the team's drop from fourth in defense last season to 24th this season as a particular source of disappointment.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 26, 2021, 02:14:40 PM
Lakers were trading Shroder to get Lowry
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 26, 2021, 02:25:32 PM
Deni isn’t even 20. That he can’t defend yet isn’t surprising. He still finds a ton of ways to contribute to the game. In addition to his D, all of that will get better with time.

I wouldn’t call Obi a bust yet, and I think his work ethic will make him functional if not good over the next couple of seasons, but his role in this team with us should be extremely situational this year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on March 26, 2021, 02:53:43 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 26, 2021, 01:37:57 PM
Hard pass on Schroeder. Thanks all the same.

I very much like our current roster post trade. I hope we hang on to VP. He’s more than just a tall guy with a good beard. He can do drop coverage, trench warfare, and the high pick game. It’s his third year in the league, but his 12th or 13th as a pro coming from the European system. Terrance could be ready for Thibs now. VP lets Randle play with another floor stretching big. That should be worth a look. It also frees up Taj to spell Randle adding a little punch to our second unit. Poirier is also a recent plant in Brad and Doc’s locker rooms, which never hurts in a series should one occur. Counting on the Lakers to take Drummond off our plate at least in the short term.

Mitch Noel Poirier
Randle Taj Obi
Bullock Knox Ferguson
Barrett Burks Frank
Rose Quickley Payton

Every player on the roster now brings a high degree of athletic force and a decent amount of skill. I wish this was a year we could actually practice, but I think we can still make a nice push.

I need nine more wins to hit my number.

Who among our prognosticators have already seen their predictions surpassed? I remember being on the more optimistic arc of the curve when we started this season.

Porier has been WAIVED. 
Title: Re: Knicks prognosticators
Post by: Kam on March 26, 2021, 05:52:25 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on March 26, 2021, 01:53:59 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 26, 2021, 01:37:57 PM

I need nine more wins to hit my number.

Who among our prognosticators have already seen their predictions surpassed? I remember being on the more optimistic arc of the curve when we started this season.

I don't remember my number, but I'm sure it's been surpassed by a lot already.

So glad I was DEAD WRONG.


Carlos picked 20.
I picked 22 but changed it to 30 after the Milwaukee game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 26, 2021, 07:28:02 PM
Quote from: chipstern on March 26, 2021, 02:53:43 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 26, 2021, 01:37:57 PM
Hard pass on Schroeder. Thanks all the same.

I very much like our current roster post trade. I hope we hang on to VP.

Porier has been WAIVED.

Mon dieu! Non! Pourquoi?
Title: Bulldog Drummond
Post by: chipstern on March 26, 2021, 07:40:34 PM
What's the over under on where he lands?

I know everyone says the Lakers, but if I were him, I would have considerable interest in the Celtics. 
Title: Phool On The Hill
Post by: chipstern on March 26, 2021, 07:42:42 PM
Anyone see the Phil Jackson mea culpa on his time with the Knicks. 

The fans, Carmelo, basically everyone but himself...compared his dark night of the soul to Trump's first 3-1/2 years in office. 

I used to have a great deal of affection for him as a player, and respect for him as a coach. 

What an asshole.  ESAD, narcissistic motherfucker. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 26, 2021, 09:23:47 PM
Get a good look at D Hunter tonight - 10 PM at Golden State ESPN
Title: Be Careful What You Wish For
Post by: chipstern on March 26, 2021, 09:25:58 PM
Andre Drummond expects a max deal this offseason
That outcome could also appeal to Drummond, who, according to sources, told teammates earlier this season he would be getting the max in summer free agency. How often do players sign for the minimum and then turn around and get big deals? It’s hard to change perception, especially heading into an important offseason. – via Chris Fedor @ Cleveland Plain Dealer
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 26, 2021, 09:26:43 PM
OBiT and Avdija were touted as the most NBA ready rooks (though not high-ceiling players).  Both have struggled more than expected.  Seem to get out of sorts and lose some confidence.   Both have disappointed so far.


No
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 26, 2021, 09:28:37 PM
Avdija played 34 international games - for a total of 422 minutes.  What signified NBA ready if he wasnt Maccabi Tel Aviv ready?

https://www.basketball-reference.com/international/players/deni-avdija-1.html
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 26, 2021, 09:58:03 PM
Suddenly Greek Freak's bro is a player?

12-5-3-1 tonight in 17 minutes vs Boston in a loss.

Didnt we have Thanasis at one point?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 26, 2021, 10:00:08 PM
30 spot tonight for Malik Monk - in 20 minutes

Electric.
Title: The Art of Being Wrong
Post by: bodiddley on March 27, 2021, 12:33:53 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on March 26, 2021, 09:28:37 PM
Avdija played 34 international games - for a total of 422 minutes.  What signified NBA ready if he wasnt Maccabi Tel Aviv ready?

https://www.basketball-reference.com/international/players/deni-avdija-1.html

Yeah, Avdija "wasn't Maccabi Tel Aviv ready" ... he only led the team to an Israeli championship and was named league MVP.  At age 18.

It's usually better to know what you are talking about:

- Deni Avdija joined Maccabi Tel Aviv in 2013 and excelled as a youth player. - He debuted for their senior team in 2017, at age 16, becoming the youngest player in club history.
- Two years later, he became the youngest player to ever win the Israeli Basketball Premier League MVP award,
- and led his team to the Israeli Basketball Premier League championship.
- Avdija is also a member of the Israeli senior national basketball team.
- He has won two gold medals for Israel at the youth level, including at the 2019 FIBA U20 European Championship, where he was named tournament MVP.

So Avdija has been a pro for 7 years, on Maccabi Tel Aviv since age 16, won essentially every accolade in Israeli hoops, played in plenty of international tourneys (including MVP of the 2019 FIBA U20 European Championship).  Has played 2 seasons in Euroleague, the highest European level.  His father had a 19 year professional Euro-career, so he has a very good support group, akin to RJB.

Why would anyone think that he was more NBA ready than a whole lot of guys mostly one year out of US high school?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 27, 2021, 12:39:19 AM
You can see that Avdija has a good feel for the game, knows what is going on.  But he looks to be treading carefully, is low energy, and just doesn't seem to know how to make an impact.  He's got more of a versatile, all-around game than any one standout skill.  But he mostly has just seemed a warm body out there the games I've seen the WASherwomen. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 27, 2021, 01:57:20 AM
Westbrook really shot WASh out of the game in the 4Q.
Deciding to miss a lot of jumpers.  Also had a number of turnovers.
Maybe if he wasn't such a human tornado the first 3Q's, he'd have more energy and focus to drive and thrive in the 4Q. 

Mathews really plays tough and gritty.  You can see why he relegated Avdija to the bench.  Alex Len played well and was feisty.  I've liked him since his rook year, thought he'd have a better career.

Taj set a ton of rugged screens, freeing up both Burks and IQ for 3's.  Also got a pair of 4Q rebounds in traffic.  Great game.

On a night where he didn't have it and got a thigh injury, Randle played decoy, deferred to the Guards, and still came through with two key baseline J's.  Nicely done on an off game.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 27, 2021, 02:54:05 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on March 26, 2021, 09:58:03 PM
Suddenly Greek Freak's bro is a player?

12-5-3-1 tonight in 17 minutes vs Boston in a loss.

Didnt we have Thanasis at one point?

He’s always been a player. He’s finally come into NBA speed.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 27, 2021, 03:10:26 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 27, 2021, 12:39:19 AM
You can see that Avdija has a good feel for the game, knows what is going on.  But he looks to be treading carefully, is low energy, and just doesn't seem to know how to make an impact.  He's got more of a versatile, all-around game than any one standout skill.  But he mostly has just seemed a warm body out there the games I've seen the WASherwomen.

It will be some time before Deni is at the top of his game. At the moment, half way through his rookie season he dropped in 20 points in a game, 10 boards in another, and he’s also notched 5 dimes. He has a nearly 2-1 ATR as a 6’9” teenager who regularly puts the ball on the floor. No one is in love with his shooting percentages or his D as a rook so far. He’s come into the NBA about where he was for Maccabi 14-16 months ago. The gap between the leagues should give one confidence about him maturing on a fairly favorable growth pattern from where he’s gotten himself already in DC.
Title: Phool Jagoff....The GRIFT That Keeps Giving
Post by: chipstern on March 27, 2021, 01:32:27 PM
My last word on this shameless sack of shit, save if Charlie Rosen chimes in....who waited until the Knicks were making baby steps towards a positive culture and a re-energized fan base with a coach Phool noticeably never considered for his Triangular stragulation, having done something Phool's supplicunts could never do...get the Knicks peeking above .500 

Besides signing unmotivated party animal Joakim Noah to 4 x 18 million (and then empowering asswipe Jeff Horny Wreck to go out of his way to publically humilate him), one might compare that signing favorably with Neon Leon inking the likes of Burks and Noel to one year make goods....it is worth noting that while Phil didn't offload our #1 picks as Isiah and Donnie and Grunwald had, he nevertheless traded away all of our #2 picks, which given our record turned out to be fairly valuable, made very dicey trades, and with the exception of Porzingis falling in our laps, was not exactly a draft guru/judge of talent. 

To wit....

(https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s851x315/165702220_4566919269991058_3074835541340980341_o.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=dbeb18&_nc_ohc=xuy0JuOtrjAAX_0JcbY&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&tp=7&oh=1e60a6dce878f281d762a2fb282b2490&oe=6086A54C)

If that appears murky, so is the logic that passed on Dimwiddie, Grant, Nokic and Clarkson in the second round.  The second round admittedly being a crap shoot, but Phil got crap, while Perry (having cleaned up the Carmelo mess Jagoff engendered) got Mitchell Robinson with the second rounder he obtained in his Anthony trade. 

(https://www.jackiegleason.com/photos/gleason-video-clips.jpg)

"A little travelling music, Sammy..."
Title: Post Mortem From Mike Lupica
Post by: chipstern on March 27, 2021, 01:46:27 PM
"Pro tip to Phil, as he’s out trying to do damage control now: It’s not really Zen-like to compare yourself to Donald Trump as a victim of the big, bad media...." 
Title: Lupica On THIBS
Post by: chipstern on March 27, 2021, 01:47:24 PM
https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/ny-tom-thibodeau-lupica-20210327-2ljrv7gu75b3vps7i4xeki3gzm-story.html (https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/ny-tom-thibodeau-lupica-20210327-2ljrv7gu75b3vps7i4xeki3gzm-story.html)
Title: Terrence Ferguson
Post by: chipstern on March 27, 2021, 02:00:19 PM
What have we got if anything. 

Only 22, and an athletic 6'6"

Scuttle butt is he is a good defender, up and down offensively. 

Worth noting, that in his second year for OKC, playing as a SG, he took 290 treys, and converted 106 for a .366%, while converting FTs on his infrequent trips to the charity stripe at a .725% clip over 26 minutes a night. 

Playing the following year as a SF, his modest numbers and efficiency plummetted. 

He was pretty much nailed to the bench for the Sixers this season. 

Forward....MARCH
Title: Imagine My Dissapointment
Post by: chipstern on March 27, 2021, 11:31:41 PM
I was looking forward to BoD's regularly scheduled hohum about Alec Burks. 

Oh, well. 

21 points
6-12 from trey
10 rebounds
5 assists
2 blocks

Just a career journeyman. 

My bad. 

Bogdon Bogdonavich [23.3 minutes]

10.2 ppg
3.3 reb
2.4 ass
.339 trey
.933 FT [14-15]

Alec Burks [26 minutes]

13.0 ppg
4.4 reb
2.1 ass
.399 trey
.854 FT [76-89]


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 27, 2021, 11:49:32 PM
Burks is literally a journeyman.
He's been up and down offensively this year.
Lately on a pretty good tear.
I've been impressed by his rebounding.
That shows effort and toughness.
And you can always use an extra wing pulling down boards.
And he was okayish trying to fill in as a PG for a few games.  Certainly better than when RJB did his spot-PG attempt last year.
Last i checked Burks shooting numbers were almost identical to Bullox (but with greater volume).
Maybe tilted towards Burks now with his recent 5 game streak.

Bogdanovich just returned from a knee injury which kept him out most of the year.
But really I would have tossed all our money at FVV.

My initial contention was that Burks was not the superstar he appeared the first three games and would regress. 
Then when folks were touting Burks as a starter, I pointed out his flaws more, and contended that Bullox was the
better starter for the Knix.  Both true.

The more interesting questions:
So how much will the Knix be willing to pay Burks to stay?
Is Burks going to look for not only money but a potential starting SG gig?
Should Burks be our starting SG next to RJB next year?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 27, 2021, 11:51:01 PM
Did the paperwork clear on cutting Vincent Poirier? Can we hold that up for a sec?

Other than the terrible news for our Mitch, that was a tense watchable game. We got lucky with who they could suit up, considering who we were down by the end of the first quarter.

It will be interesting to see what happens with the roster spot...
Title: Buy Outs
Post by: chipstern on March 27, 2021, 11:53:29 PM
Aldridge to the Nyets. 

If they ever get everyone healthy for one day....

Aldridge-Griffin-Durant-Irving-Harden
Jordan-Harris-Shamet

Not too shabby. 

Meanwhile, who might the Knicks pursue of the current buyouts?  With one open roster spot? 

Al Horford is being sat down for the season by the Thunder, with two additional 27 million years on his contract.  Thunder will work to accomodate him, but probably not in time for the Knicks to make a run at him. 

So...who's left?

Mitchell went down tonight with a broken bone in his right foot.  Damn shame.  Was playing really well, really SMART. 

So, does that mean Andre Drummond?

NOPE

Bullock hurt

Does that mean Otto Porter?

NOPE

Rose, Payton, Quickley, Ntilikina, Harper

So Jeff Teague would appear to be too little, too late, even if he was a Thibs guy in Minny.

We do need a center with Mitchell probably out for...who knows

Gorgul Dieng?

Played for Thibs in Minny.  Doesn't have garish stats like Drummond, but if a rim protector who defends, boards, converts his FTs.  Basically gave Thibs 10-8-2 during his first season with the Wolves, converting .812% on FTs. 

In 22 games for Memphis this season, he converted 23-of-48 treys.  That's .478%.  And 38-43 FTs, which translates to .884. 

Dieng just turned 31 years old, is 6'10" 252 pounds. 

Looks like a fit, and propitious timing. 

Facil, please call the available centers hotline.  Your ship has come in. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 27, 2021, 11:54:34 PM
The Bucks have some interesting pieces buried on their bench.

I always knew Thanasis was capable of getting 20 & 10 in a Knicks game.

Kudos to RJ, Burks, Taj, Nerins, and DRose.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 27, 2021, 11:57:32 PM
Chip,

Dieng, Dedmon, and Poirier top my there and potentially cheap list at the moment.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on March 27, 2021, 11:58:35 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 27, 2021, 11:49:32 PM
Burks is literally a journeyman.
He's been up and down offensively this year.
Lately on a pretty good tear.
I've been impressed by his rebounding.
That shows effort and toughness.
And you can always use an extra wing pulling down boards.
And he was okayish trying to fill in as a PG for a few games.  Certainly better than when RJB did his spot-PG attempt last year.
Last i checked Burks shooting numbers were almost identical to Bullox (but with greater volume).
Maybe tilted towards Burks now with his recent 5 game streak.

Bogdanovich just returned from a knee injury which kept him out most of the year.
But really I would have tossed all our money at FVV.

My initial contention was that Burks was not the superstar he appeared the first three games and would regress. 
Then when folks were touting Burks as a starter, I pointed out his flaws more, and contended that Bullox was the
better starter for the Knix.  Both true.

The more interesting questions:
So how much will the Knix be willing to pay Burks to stay?
Is Burks going to look for not only money but a potential starting SG gig?
Should Burks be our starting SG next to RJB next year?

Burks was hurt too. 

I believe there would be mutual interest between the Knicks and Burks, if the price is right. 

He does not seem to have any issues with starting our coming off the bench. 

He has been a terrific team mate and contributor.  Thibs' type of guy.  A vet with savvy, skills and an all around game. 

Starting?  I doubt that would be an issue for a career role player, who came to the Knicks with precisely that expectation in mind.  More valuable as a plug and play Wing at SG-SF.  Anyone who can on any given night convert 6-12 treys can play on my team. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 27, 2021, 11:59:12 PM
BURKS!!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on March 28, 2021, 12:01:40 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 27, 2021, 11:57:32 PM
Chip,

Dieng, Dedmon, and Poirier top my there and potentially cheap list at the moment.

Ah, Dedmon. 

Pretty similar size and age and skills profile.  That would also be a good pickup. 

I would think of Dieng as having an advantage, being a graduate of the Thibodeau School Of Hard Knicks, as a  Timberwolve. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 28, 2021, 12:03:05 AM
Dieng is my favorite of the floaters. I’ve liked him for years. Also Thon Maker as an option to ponder.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 28, 2021, 12:17:02 AM
Al Horford is being sat down for the season by the Thunder, with two additional 27 million years on his contract.


one
Title: Some Good News
Post by: chipstern on March 28, 2021, 12:32:23 AM
Two of Thibs' Top Assistants?

Associate Head Coach Johnnie Bryant and Assistant Coach Kenny Payne were both being courted by college programs. 

Word tonight is that they are staying put, which is great news. 

Great teachers, excellent reputation amongst collegians and pros, and a welcome degree of continuity. 

Having them onboard this summer to work with the likes of Toppin and Quickley, Randle and Barrett, let alone whomever we score in the draft and possible free agents, can only make us better.

As for the issue BoD raised as per our own free agents? 

Rose, Payton
Bullock, Burks
Noels, Gibson

Not to mention decisions on Ntilkina and Knox, Harper and Pinson. 

Seem like a good problem to have. 

FACIL.  Tonight was a gritty game between two gritty teams.  Was happy to see the Baby Greek have such a breakout game, and was flabbergated by the Bucks shooters. 

Yet another grind it out game. 

24-22?

Who'd have thunk it. 

Miami will be a good bar to measure our selves against. 

Oladipo will be fucking psyched, that's for sure.  A great fit for them.  And they have enough back court depth where he won't have to play enervating minutes.

On the other hand, Riley must be freaking out about LaMarcus spurning the Heat for the Nyets. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on March 28, 2021, 12:34:32 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 28, 2021, 12:03:05 AM
Dieng is my favorite of the floaters. I’ve liked him for years. Also Thon Maker as an option to ponder.

Thon has always intrigued me. 

But I don't think he has what it takes to earn Thibs' trust. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 28, 2021, 12:42:35 AM
Tommy Beer seems to think we’ll be pursuing Dieng. He’s solid, skilled and can play with energy. He’d be someone besides Taj to take (and give) lumps so Randle and Noel don’t have to.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 28, 2021, 01:24:42 AM
"It was a weird game." Derrick Rose.

I never heard of two of the guys Bucks started.
Nice of MIL to gift us a game.
MIL listed 4 of their regular starters as injured.
But they all played last night, without any noticeable issues.
Seemed like Bucks were just covering (read: falsifying) so the league wouldn't bust them for sitting out 4/5ths of their starters for rest.

The Mitch injury looked like very little.  Shame he's re-injured.
Dieng, Deadman, Shake Your ThonMaker, Poirier, Mozgov (kidding on the last one, but he still is on ORL's payroll this year and next according to Hoopshype)
Dieng with the Thibs connection sounds probable.
Unfortunately Randle and ObiT are really single position players.

Speaking of C's and Bucks starters, Brook Lopez looked small next to Tacko Fall last game.  Was weird to see.

Thanassis starting to bust out ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 28, 2021, 08:29:19 AM
Well, the MIL Nobodaddies gave the depleted Knix a run for their money.

So Randle is out and ObiT gets a mere 7 mins.  While the Bucks were playing their unknown squad, so would seem like a
a perfect opp for Toppings to show what he's got.  Not a good sign for our soon to be 24 year old rook.
Taj starts at PF next to Mitch, then Mitch becomes encrippled and Nerlens plays 31 mins.
Both starting Bigs are out and ObiT gets 7 minutes ...
There were a few plays where Bucks scored around the rim easily on ObiT.  Lopez waltzing around
him very early 1Q.  Some unknown Buck swooped past Topping on a drive when he seemed to have good position.

Otherwise Knix up 70-69 5:23 in the 3Q.  Burks starts off under the basket guarding Connaughton on the weakside baseline.
Pat C drifts out and up to the elbow, Burks doesn't really notice and when Taj feigns guarding the lane to prevent a drive, Burks
sticks with Taj's man on the baseline, but Taj is near enough to recover, and even after Taj does, Burks takes an extra step to guard
Taj's man and belatedly realizes he needs to close out on Connaught.  Pat C gets a super-wide open 3 with a Burks super-late closeout attempt.

Burks should have played in between his man on the elbow 3-line and the baseline Big, which would put him in
the line of the baseline pass while allowing him to close out in time.  And he needed to process quicker Taj's recovery.
That's the kind of play I'd trust RJB and Bullox to make.  Burks tends to lose sigh of his man, react slow on switches, give up open 3's.

I'm sure Mr. Thibs notices this stuff.  It was a one point game.  Lucky Connaighton missed, but he's a good 3-point shootist and Bucks had been hot form outside.

One the hustle side, Burks did nearly steal the ball from Nwowa in the 2Q, and had a nice save of a ball going out of bounds 3Q (a risky save really towards midcourt,
but got it to Elf to keep the Knick posession.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 28, 2021, 08:47:37 AM
Bucks zone bothered the Knix.
Earlier this year teams were zoning the Knix some, when the Knix 3-point shooting was poor.  The soft spot in the zone was 8-10 foot paint jumpers for Noel or Taj.
Bucks zone kept the Knix from driving.
NYK got their first FT's with 2:07 left in the 3Q, when know caught it on th move and was whacked heading rimward.
MIL only had 11 fouls total for the game.
Knix just 8 FT's for 48 mins.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 28, 2021, 12:51:06 PM
I was wondering why the Bucks gave up on DJ Wilson, although he's always injured and tantalizing but inconsistent when he plays.
But they have Nwora and Diakite in the pipeline.  And Thanassis as well.
Interesting energy players.
Nwora looked quite good.
And of course they added PJ Tuck for the playoff run in the DJW + Auggy deal.

Forbes has a poor game on both ends.  Gave up an open 3 to Burks at the end of the 3Q with the shot clock dwindling.  Drifted purposelessly in a couple steps which allowed Noel to screen for Burks.  Fornbes just needed to follow his man Burks and contest the last 2 secs of the shot clock.  Then he made a bad read to leave Burks open for the tiebreaking/game winning 3 late in the 4Q.  In between he missed a lot of shots including some ugly ones.  And missed the jack that could have tied it.  Was he trying to bank it in from 26' straight-on?   Was one of the very few vets MIL played and he had a bad game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 28, 2021, 01:39:33 PM
The Post is reporting Dieng to the Spurs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 28, 2021, 02:10:03 PM
They will always be smarter than us
Title: Waivers
Post by: chipstern on March 28, 2021, 02:49:08 PM
Marquese Chris waived by the Spurs.  Will apparently sign Dieng to replace Aldridge. 

Austin Rivers waived by Thunder.  Bucks apparently showing interest. 

Meanwhile....

Al Horford to sit out rest of season

Horford, under contract for two more seasons, will remain a member of the Thunder and will continue to train at the team’s facility. Coach Mark Daigneault said Horford is unlikely to travel for away games. “When I arrived, I understood the direction of the team, we had a great individual plan in place for me, and I feel like as a result I’ve played really good basketball for the Thunder,” Horford said in a statement. “At the same time, I know what it’s like to be a young, aspiring player, and at this point in the season I understand how important playing meaningful minutes is for their careers and their development.” – via Joe Mussatto @ USA Today Sports

2020-2021 [$27,500,000]   2021-2022 [$27,000,000] [2022-2023] $26,500,000

Meanwhile, Sam Presti accumulates draft assets by the bushel, and empowers his puppies. 

Moses Brown, a 21 year old second year 7'2" 245 pound center out of Archbishop Malloy and UCLA, notched 21 points and 23 rebounds last night against the Celtics.  As a rookie he had a 2-way contract with the Blazers. 

There's gold in them thar hills.

PS: Rookie Theo Maledon, 19 years old, taken #34 by Philly in last year's second round, played 37 minutes at the point for OKC, and was 22-8-4-2. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 28, 2021, 03:32:47 PM
Look. Just because it hasn't been mentioned. With the Knicks wilting at the end, Burks hits the three to win the game. Period.

As simple as that.

Basketball stats often don't reflect the situational nature of things — there are guys (not many) that come through in critical moments. Burks has done that for the Knicks this year. He makes a huge difference.

BTW, that zone did a number on Barrett in the 4th quarter. Wasn't it three times he tried to pass that ball off in the crowded paint, and the Bucks game up with the ball?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 28, 2021, 03:38:19 PM
I’m sure zone breaking is on RJ’s developmental todo list.

Can you resign a guy you just waived?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 28, 2021, 03:39:11 PM
We dodged the Drummond bullet. He’s heading to the Lakers.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 28, 2021, 03:41:05 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 28, 2021, 08:29:19 AM
Well, the MIL Nobodaddies gave the depleted Knix a run for their money.

So Randle is out and ObiT gets a mere 7 mins.  While the Bucks were playing their unknown squad, so would seem like a
a perfect opp for Toppings to show what he's got.  Not a good sign for our soon to be 24 year old rook.
Taj starts at PF next to Mitch, then Mitch becomes encrippled and Nerlens plays 31 mins.
Both starting Bigs are out and ObiT gets 7 minutes ...
There were a few plays where Bucks scored around the rim easily on ObiT.  Lopez waltzing around
him very early 1Q.  Some unknown Buck swooped past Topping on a drive when he seemed to have good position.

Obi made 3 buckets (!) in the 2nd quarter, and I was just hoping he stayed in to get used to the groove

But once Thibs took him out, he never did return.

I figure, as you're suggesting, that the coach is seeing the rookie as a defensive liability. But damn, if there was ever a night I would have expected him to play more, it would have been that one.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 28, 2021, 03:50:12 PM
https://twitter.com/sny_knicks/status/1376000280811216902 (https://twitter.com/sny_knicks/status/1376000280811216902)

This is a strong moment. When Rose first hears about Mitchell's injury.

Says a lot both about Rose's own painful history with injuries, and the camaraderie on the team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 28, 2021, 04:13:03 PM
Big credit for Burks hitting the shot, but chumpy D by Forbes.  Just needed to follow his man Burks to the corner.  Not like Noel was shooting from out there.  Can't lose focus like that.  Need to play out the full possession.

Knox got in and played fairly well, so got 12 minutes which otherwise some likely would have gone to ObiT.

Not sure why Torey Craig didn't work out in MIL.
He's done well in the 5 games in PHX.
Just had a nice game v. PHX.
When PHX put their starters back in the 4Q, Craig was the lone bench guy to remain out there (for a couple minutes).
3 O-boards, 2 steals a block, and a floor burn.  9 points in 20 mins.
The kind of hustle and energy he showed in DEN.
Not sure why it didn't translate in MIL -- I thought it was a sneaky good pickup -- and so they decided to bring in old PJ Tuck to do the F 3&D grunt work.

Kind of wild CHA-PHX game.
DeVo Graham scored 8 straight to send it to OT.
PHX ahead all of OT but got really sloppy.
Terrible game from Crowder (0-9 on 3's and 3 turns).  Up 2 with 8 secs left, Crowder threw an awful inbounds pass, that CHA batted away but couldn't finally corral. 
Both Bridges has impressive games.
But Miles for CHA had 4 highlight dunks (and a 5th alley-oop taken away), finishing 18 & 12 (5 O-boards).  Guy was just everywhere, revved up after a couple altercations with Crowder.
Cody Martin did a  lot and played some sticky D (CP3 finished with 1 assist and 4 turnovers).
PJ Wash didn't score in 44 minutes.

Nice to see PHX able to secure a W when their vets Crowder and CP3 were off.
Title: Moving On....
Post by: chipstern on March 28, 2021, 05:06:02 PM
Mike Woodson to coach Indiana University

Jeff Goodman: Indiana has targered Knicks coach and former Indiana star Mike Woodson, source told @stadium. – via Twitter GoodmanHoops
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jerrya on March 28, 2021, 05:36:45 PM


Mike Woodson to coach Indiana University

Jeff Goodman: Indiana has targered Knicks coach and former Indiana star Mike Woodson, source told @stadium. – via Twitter GoodmanHoops

Addition by subtraction!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on March 28, 2021, 05:55:15 PM
Quote from: Jerrya on March 28, 2021, 05:36:45 PM


Mike Woodson to coach Indiana University

Jeff Goodman: Indiana has targered Knicks coach and former Indiana star Mike Woodson, source told @stadium. – via Twitter GoodmanHoops

Addition by subtraction!

Funny you should say that. 

I was not a Woodson enthusiast from his previous tenure. 

Seems to have served Thibs well this time out.  Glad he found a soft landing space at INDIANA

We'er keeping Bryant and Payne.  THAT'S what matters to me. 
Title: The Machinations Of Brock Aller
Post by: chipstern on March 28, 2021, 06:20:56 PM
This has Aller's fingerprints all over it. 

Knicks release Terrance Ferguson, Vincent Poirier

Shams Charania: The Knicks have waived Terrance Ferguson and Vincent Poirier, sources tell @TheAthletic @Stadium. – via Twitter ShamsCharania

So what?  We picked up a pair of second rounders: Philadelphia 76ers' 2021 2nd round pick and the Miami Heat's protected 2024 2nd round pick from Philly. 

Phool used to blow off second rounders like Vegas hookers.  Under Aller, we accumulate them.  TO WHAT PURPOSE?  Package them together to move up in the draft or help shift around other teams' contracts and obligations?  Cap space flex? 

Aller thinking three steps ahead. 

In any event....

We divested ourselves of...

Rivers [SG/PG]
Brazdeikis [SF]

And waived...

Ferguson [SG/SF]
Poirier [C]

While keeping...

Harper [PG]
Pinson [SG/SF]

Mfiondu Tshimanga Kabengele has been waived..  No word on Otto Porter yet. Or Jeff Teague. 

For the moment Houston is holding on to Avery Bradley. 

Wonder what Hasaan Whiteside's status is with the Kings. 

Googled to see who might be lurking out there. 

Kyle Korver / SG / Last team: Milwaukee. ...
DeMarcus Cousins / C / Last team: Houston. ...
Isaiah Thomas / PG / Last team: Washington. ...
Gerald Green / SG / Last team: Houston. ...
Rondae Hollis-Jefferson / PF / Last team: Minnesota. ...
Shabazz Napier / PG / Last team: Washington. ...
Emmanuel Mudiay / PG / Last team: Utah.

Coming off the cap in the summer of 2021, presumably. 

Terrance Ferguson   $3,944,013

Vincent Poirier   $2,619,207

Jacob Evans   $2,017,320

Omari Spellman   $1,988,280

TOTAL: $10,568,820

That's not counting the expiring contracts of Payton, Bullock, Noel, Burks, Rose. 

 
Title: Eureka?
Post by: chipstern on March 28, 2021, 06:46:44 PM
What's TYSON CHANDLER up to? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 28, 2021, 06:47:05 PM
OKC had to deal Schroder to get Green and Green to get Maledon (with Horford - we will see if they get anything for Al).

Sooner or later they need to stop the merry go round and let the coach try to win a division/top 8 seed.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 28, 2021, 07:42:38 PM
Jabari Parker would be a good add.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 28, 2021, 11:27:57 PM
Hell no. Only to a gibbering idiot.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 28, 2021, 11:32:17 PM
4th place!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 28, 2021, 11:50:41 PM
Luke Kornet is going to wind up some kind of Celtic legend when all is said and done.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 29, 2021, 12:04:06 AM
Taking a peek at Chriss or Kabengele wouldn’t be the worst idea.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 29, 2021, 12:16:07 AM
SHRODER takes over vs Magic for shorthanded Lakers

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 29, 2021, 03:42:43 AM
Norvell Pelle is apparently on the radar...
Title: heroics
Post by: bodiddley on March 29, 2021, 05:31:59 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on March 29, 2021, 12:16:07 AM
SHRODER takes over vs Magic for shorthanded Lakers

Outplaying the great Chasson Randle (who fouled out in 26 mins).
And after ORL traded away its only 3 legit starters.
Also, Schroder was a team worst -7
(only all 4 bench players and Kuz were in + territory)
Woo & hoo.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 29, 2021, 09:49:02 AM
Shroder is a winner.

Would I take him?

Well, our management may have other ideas.....

I remain firmly in their corner - as I have no current reason to not be.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 29, 2021, 10:06:52 AM
Chip's level of enthusiasm for trading Rivers for a likely #55 pick is amusing.
Chip thought Phil was the BOMB, and now these new folks are the greatest too.

So far:
- bringing in Mr. Thibs was a godsend.
- Quickly was a nice draft pick, especially since the Knix have failed a lot at picking a viable late round PG (Frankie the FLy, Mardy Collins, Jerian Grant), not to mention Nkilitina as a high pick.
- Burks, Noel, Taj nice additions who have played well.  Rivers and Rose more up and down.
- Toppings seems a questionable pick (TyH was the right move).  Obadiah is stuck behind Randle.  And his weak D doesn't make him a Thibs type of player.  We'll see how it pans out.

BTW, my mistake I thought ObiT was about to turn an alarming 24, when he just turned a not young for a rookie but not old 23.  I forgot that I'm using ESPN India to so that I get all the Insider stuff free.  But they do everything the Euro-way (no doubt that British way), so ObiT's birthday was listed as 4/3/98, which I mistakenly took as April 3rd.  So he turned 23 March 4.  I also have to deal with heights listed in meters, but I know that 2.00m - 6'7", and each inch is 2.5 cm, so can manage.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 29, 2021, 10:12:17 AM
- Quickly was a nice draft pick, especially since the Knix have failed a lot at picking a viable late round PG (Frankie the FLy, Mardy Collins, Jerian Grant), not to mention Nkilitina as a high pick.


Yes.  Solid pick - but if they absolutely had to have a PG they would not have taken IQ.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 29, 2021, 10:22:07 AM
So could someone explain the Rivers thing to me? I haven't been paying attention.

We got players for him that we immediately cut and a 2nd round pick.

So apparently the GM felt it important to dump his contract or what?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 29, 2021, 10:22:37 AM
Yep.  But in the 20's you want to get a rotation player.
Quix qualifies. 

Other PG draft options:
Maledon and Saben Lee are interesting.
Pritchard so far more of a shooter than PG.
I don't know DAL Tyrell Terry (has played sparingly; I saw him have a nice assist)
Malachi Flynn has had a disastrous start (haven't seen him play, or try to play)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 29, 2021, 10:23:59 AM
Yep.  But in the 20's you want to get a rotation player.
Quix qualifies.

Absolutely.

Offensive upgrade - check.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 29, 2021, 10:29:39 AM
Quote from: elephant on March 29, 2021, 10:22:07 AM
So could someone explain the Rivers thing to me? I haven't been paying attention.

We got players for him that we immediately cut and a 2nd round pick.

So apparently the GM felt it important to dump his contract or what?

That was kinda-sorta the thinking when we signed him.  But we had 2 nice team options we could have picked up had Rivers worked out to greater advantage
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 29, 2021, 10:35:18 AM
Other PG draft options:
Maledon and Saben Lee are interesting.
Pritchard so far more of a shooter than PG.
I don't know DAL Tyrell Terry (has played sparingly; I saw him have a nice assist)
Malachi Flynn has had a disastrous start (haven't seen him play, or try to play)

Interesting that we could have actually HAD Maledon or Lee.  Knicks decided they would rather use the roster spot on another vet - a foreshadowing that we were GOING FOR IT immediately.

And/or - FUCK - that we DID think Quickley was a point (maybe still do).  Heh.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 29, 2021, 10:35:47 AM
Before the season, I thought Rivers would have a solid bench role as a combo guard who can handle, and thought Burks might have trouble getting minutes.  But IQ proved NBA ready, able to shoot and handle.  And Burks started off on fire.

So Rivers role was reduced.  He became IQ's running mate, a safety net for the 2nd unit, another ballhandler and creator since IQ is a scorer working on those areas.
Once we brought Rose in, and used him in the role of IQ running mate, Au Revoir no longer had a role.

So we were looking to trade him for a 2nd rounder or some bench prospect.
Or waive him.  Apparently nothing materialized, and we couldn't get value for Rivers or send him to a contender.  So we made a funky trade.  Not sure why we didn't take a look at T-Ferg.  We got  a pair of PHI 2nd round picks, but the later one seems to have some protections, likely keeping it form being above 45 or whatever.
I guess that was preferable to waiving Rivers.

Rivers doesn't have a good teammate rep, but seemed liked and positive with NYK.
And some of the problem was playing for his Pops.  Along with being cocky/annoying.  Seemed like he's grown up.  Hope Rivers hooks up with a playoff team.  He had some good Knick moments, especially that one early game he won for us.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 29, 2021, 10:37:31 AM
Likely BUCKS for Austin.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 29, 2021, 12:19:59 PM
Could be.
They have Bryn Forbes in the backup SG/bench shooter role.
Looks like he's done well, though he was poor in the NYK game (and made fatal defensive mistakes).  And Sam Merill is there as well.

MIL needs a backup PG since they shipped out DJ Auggie.
Rivers can fill in.  Not sure they can find a real backup PG anywhere.
Title: Enthusiasm
Post by: chipstern on March 29, 2021, 01:28:11 PM
New management teams greatest attribute is not following BoD's suggestions. 

Haliburton notwithstanding.  I was banging the drum for him pretty consistently, and to a lesser extent, Vassell and Lewis.  Never saw Obi as an option at #8.  Though clearly Obi was predicated on Randle being a 40/60 proposition, on his way out of town.  I always looked forward to you explaining what a POS Julius was. 

Oh, I seem to recall you thinking that Atkinson was a much better choice than Thibs. 

Likewise, your stance this summer was that the Knicks had blown it because they were not making lots of dramatic moves.  I keep bringing up BB because it broke your heart that we had not made A BIG SPLASH in free agency, and in no aspect of the game as Bogs exceeded Burks.  Oh, Bogs was hurt?  Sniffle.  So was Burks.  I agreed with you on Christian Woods, and not sure why he wasn't interested in us, or vicea versa.  Noels not nearly as sexy, but has been a solid sender.  Also, not sure Woods was projected so much as a C, as a PF.  Injuries notwithstanding, Woods is a player.  So is Bogs.  Always liked him, but at 4 X $18?  I liked Bertrans too, but at 5 x $18? 

Rose's Knicks have been notable in not giving away the store or swining wildly for the fences on second tier players or bidding against themselves on first tiers.  And clearly Neon Leon had serious designs on Chris Paul, which I was of two minds on, but that ended with the pandemic, and just as clearly Paul has indeed wielded a transformational magic wand in Phoenix. 

Van Vleet?  I too would have tossed $85 million at him, but clearly he was never in play.  Hayward?  Apparently we were in play, but once things got above $25 let alone to 4 x $30, we demurred. 

And yes, I was excited about Phool, guilty as charged, for sure, but the bloom came off of that flower soon enough. 

Jackson-Fisher/Rambis/Hornacek

Rose + Plus/Thibs + Plus? 

DO NO HARM

As for your lofty perspective in predictably poohpoohing the Rivers Trade, unlike Phool and General Mills, Rivers was not publically pilloried when he fell out of both Thibs' rotation and Thibs' favor, but they dilligently looked to find a soft landing for him, and for OKC and Philly it was much about shuffling the decks and paperwork and trade exceptions and late second rounders as it was for us. 

We didn't accomplish anything?

Oh, let's see, $10 million coming off the cap this summer.  I like many Knicks fans took a childish delight in Iggy, but he was going nowhere behing Bullock and Burks, let alone RJ and Knox in the 3 & D role. 

As for Ferguson and Poirier, clearly Rose + Aller + Perry + Perrin + Thibs saw those TWO OPEN ROSTER SPACES being of some value in the here and now as we attempt to sustain a playoff push.

And we received TWO # 2 picks in he deal.  One from Philly this year and one Philly owns of Miami's is protected through #55, coming due in 2024 as I recollect. 

Again, oh, ag-o-Knee, but BO IS NOT IMPRESSED.  A late second rounder impresses simple minded Chip. 
Duly noted. 

Worth noting that Philly's #2 pick is presently situated at #46, and could conceivably dip deeper, as Philly is a really good team.  Then again, if Embid has more injury problems, God Forbid, as he was having an MVP season, who knows.  And Detroit's #2 is slotted at #32.

Just out of curiosity, are there anythings of note worth kvelling about at #46, let alone at #32, above and beyond the obvious packaging second rounders together in lieu of getting better draft position as we did this past fall with Quickley? 

Jordan Clarkson went at #46
Norman Powell went at #46
Matt Barnes went at #46
Danny Green went at #46
Sterling Brown went at #46 [Huh?  A 6'5" role player in his fourth year as a pro, currently converting 73-182 treys at a .401% clip for the Rockets and in his few forays to the FT line, at .909%]

Lou Williams and Goran Dragic at #45.  Nico Mannion at #48.

So your disdain duly noted, it would seem that Philly's 2021 #2 pick might apparently/conceivably not be a COMPLETELY useless, symbolic gesture. 

The 2024 pick might indeed trend more towards the symbolic, even if Manu Ginnobli famously went at #57, though those days of low hanging fruit from Euro/International players is long past.  And everyone's fave, Isaiah Thomas at #60.  Shake Milton at #54. 

Now it goes without saying that your scouting has to be spot on to find such jewells in the middle of the second round. 

But Walt Perrin displayed great wisdom and insight in his years evaluation talent for the Jazz. 

https://dailyknicks.com/2020/05/20/ny-knicks-walt-perrin-utah-jazz-top-draft-picks/ (https://dailyknicks.com/2020/05/20/ny-knicks-walt-perrin-utah-jazz-top-draft-picks/)

He is now doing it for the Knicks.  CJ Miles and Paul Milsap were amongst his second round reaches.  And famously, when we picked Frank at #8, and Dallas Dennis at #9, Perrin lobbied the Jazz to trade up with Denver to select Donovan Mitchell at #13.

In his present incarnation, as part of Team Rose, Obi at #8 and Quickley at #25?  Clearly Obi is struggling and Quicks us over achieving, though Payne and WWW would argue otherwise.  Of course, IQ gets to see way more daylight than Obi, who is playing behind an allstar and on a very short leash. 

Admittedly the Knicks would do well to reference the collected wisdom of Facil and BoD and Kiid and the Chipster, but so far they are at 24-22, when Chip cautiously predicted 33-39, and what did Bo project?  Someone want to refresh my Mammaries? 

So, baby steps, but, your sense that they whiffed on free agency and the Rivers transaction notwithstanding, we can mark it down as progress, and hope, if not presume, that Philly's pick if not Miami's, might prove useful in some wayshapeform. 

Stay positive Bo. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 29, 2021, 01:54:03 PM
I still don't get the ObiT pick.  Not a defender/Thibs type.  Behind Randle.  Not young.

Atkinson is a good development coach.  Thibs is a win now coach.
I am impressed that Thibs has gotten such good team defense out of 2nd year RJB and Randle.  Though in true Thibs fashion, Randle and RJB are playing major minutes (which could have consequences) and weak young defenders ObiT and Knox are not seeing much daylight.  Development clearly not a priority.

I wanted us to add at least one starter in FA.  Which makes sense if we are trying to win now.  FVV, Bogdanovic, Christian Wood.  Didn't want Bertans or Hayward.
The nice thing about Wood was he was relatively cheap, and then we could have drafted TyH or Avdija.  Burks, Noel, Rivers, Rose all have contributed, but none are starters.  Going forward, we need a starting PG and a starting wing, and a legit shooter.

The pick we got for Rivers is reported as the 2021 PHI 2nd rounder.
That's currently #59.  Almost in the undrafted ranks.  Am I missing something?    It sounds like the MIA protected 2024 2nd rounder is unlikely to convey.
I have no problem with the deal.  NYK preferred Rose who was had merely for Jr. Smith.  So Au Revoir was expendable.  Nothing turned up I assume, so we flipped him for the #59 pick next year.  Slightly better than waiving him.  Minor stuff.
Title: Draft Position
Post by: chipstern on March 29, 2021, 02:18:20 PM
I beleive you are correct Bo. 

The #46 pick is likely the Charlotte pick we conveyed to Detroit, not adjusted yet on NBA Draft's Mock Board, as Philly has the second best record in the league behind the Jazz. 
Title: Happy Birthday
Post by: Kam on March 29, 2021, 04:25:24 PM
Walt Frazier
Title: Re: TOPPIN (no 'gs')
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 29, 2021, 05:18:21 PM
I still don't get the ObiT pick.  Not a defender/Thibs type.  Behind Randle.  Not young.


You dont see a SKILLSET with Obi?

Caught up in the numbers?

OK - thats your right

I think he may have been NCAA Player of the Year - something like that - and yeah, I know this alone doesnt grant you NBA success.  But still...... FAILED PICK is a bit of an exaggeration at this point.
Title: Re: Happy Birthday
Post by: facilitatorn on March 29, 2021, 05:23:48 PM
Quote from: Kam on March 29, 2021, 04:25:24 PM
Walt Frazier
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 29, 2021, 05:29:46 PM
Going forward, we need a starting PG and a starting wing, and a legit shooter.


BETTER starting point, I am sure you meant.

Thibs may be all in on Derrick - we'll see.

Quickley was drafted because we needed shooters - glad folks here finally noticed.  Need more?  Abso-frikkin-lutely.

Give it up for Mario!

https://youtu.be/agTZO0jUiM8

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 29, 2021, 06:03:31 PM
This blurb on Toppin is the most ridiculous thing I have read in some time:


In Toppin’s defense, he had no summer league or voluntary scrimmages before training camp because of the pandemic. On the flip side, there is no saying whether Toppin’s draft stock would have fallen if NBA scouts saw the holes in his game in the Atlantic 10 or NCAA tournaments — both canceled last March.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 29, 2021, 06:30:42 PM
TEAGUE takes the Milwaukee spot.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 29, 2021, 09:47:09 PM
ANTHONY EDWARDS is an insane talent.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 29, 2021, 10:37:34 PM
It's embarrassing the way the Heat has had its way with the Knicks this year.
Title: WIZ.....
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 29, 2021, 10:51:21 PM
12-8-1 for Deni
26-8-3 for Rui
18-5-0 for Hutchison
11-6-2 blk for Gafford
35-21-14 for WESTBROOK!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 30, 2021, 01:06:46 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on March 29, 2021, 06:30:42 PM
TEAGUE takes the Milwaukee spot.

Makes much more sense than Au Revoir.
MIL needed a genuine backup PG who can handle 10-15 mins a night and distribute some.  Still will be in trouble if JRue gets hurt.  I'm often surprised how contenders are willing to cheap out on backup PG's.

ObiT has played too few minutes to really discern a skill set.
And his confidence has been down lately so he's passing up opportunities.
So far there are just vague outlines of a player.  He can jump.  He can sneak in along the baseline.  His 3 point shooting and handle are okayish, so could develop.  His defense isn't good, but not as poor as advertised.  Toppings also seems to be one-positional, which isn't great these days.  Can he switch and guard bigger or smaller guys?  Etc.

Key question:
Does he project as a NBA starter?
A decent backup PF isn't bad, but not what you want at the #8 pick. 
Is he more Drew Gooden than Amare?
Not saying I have the answer.  Playing under Thibs and behind Julius is a disadvantage.  Some extended run would do him well.  If Know were playing decently and this wasn't a weird CV year, I'd toss ObiT to Westchester for two weeks of extended run and finetuning.  Otherwise, plenty of players either peaked in college or were just better suited to that game than the NBA.  Conversely, some guys are much better at NBA hoops and excel more than they did in university (tyH comes to mind).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 30, 2021, 11:10:12 AM
I think on a division or conference champ/runner up, a top ten pick can be a second unit player, yes.

To wit - if Haliburton WAS taken, could very well be that HE would be a rotation guy, not a starter.

Maybe you are saying that Obi not starting now - on a 25-22 team, over Julius/Mitch/Reggie - makes him a bad pick.

Might actually be true of any 2020 draftee with regards to thes Knickerbockers Leon/Thibs have assembled.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 30, 2021, 11:26:54 AM
Interesting of Haliburton -

as a second unit guy you would expect him to be on the floor without either starting guard for a good amount of minutes

But he hasnt

Just 21 minutes all year without Hield and/or Fox

I think Daaron Fox's game has allowed Haliburton to sizzle.  Who does this for Toppin?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 30, 2021, 11:35:17 AM
Burks, Rivers, Quickley, Toppin, Gibson

Burks, Knox, Noel, Toppin, Quickley

Knox, Noel, Quickley, Rivers, Toppin

Burks, Noel, Quickley, Rose, Toppin

Burks, Gibson, Quickley Rose Toppin


Where is Barret?  Where is Robinson?   Where is Bullock?   Where is Payton?

Thibs has done Toppin a bit of a disservice.  If I told you back at the end of camp, prior to Game 1 that Obi would never play with our better players, you'd have erupted.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 30, 2021, 11:39:44 AM
Rose and Elf are both reasonable fill-in starters, but not legit starting PG's.
Nosirree.

Also I haven't looked at ObiT's numbers at all.
Likely too few minutes for his numbers to be meaningful really.
Guy needs some run.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 30, 2021, 11:48:13 AM
I've seen SacKings a good deal this season.
TyH generally finishes games.
A few games back they posted a stat that Halibut was averaging nearly 5 4Q points per game, second on the team behind Fox (nearly 8).
TyH has quickly become one of my favorite players to watch.

I'm also a Rich Holmes booster, and those two are the main reasons I catch Sacto.  That and to try to figure out what's wrong with them.
Their defense is poor, but also they make lots of mental mistakes.
Questionable coaching.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 30, 2021, 12:24:51 PM
Well...

Kings have won 7 of 8...

Just now seeing the Delon Wright addition.  May cut a little into Ty's minutes.  Jury still out on McNair compared with Divac as top exec.  Latest maneuvers seem fine.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 30, 2021, 02:00:33 PM
Kings 7 of 8 since TyH became a starter, after Bagley broke a bone is his hand in the CHA game.  So Luke stumbled across what seemed a pretty obvious maneuver.
Start TyH and Rich Holmes.  Bags on the 2nd unit, or now not with the team as he gets evaluated.

Holmes is a bit foul prone and not a shotblocker, but he competes and makes it difficult for folks down low by being physical.
But tyH just revs up the offense and plays smart D.
It also helps that the schedule has been soft.

So actually tyH's minutes are up now.  And Delon is going to take the Cory Joe backup PG minutes and some of what were tyH's backup SG minutes.

Kings also offed Bjelica who was a creampuff defender and erratic offender.
Added MoHark.  Also SG Terence Davis.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 30, 2021, 03:59:09 PM
So not one post on the Heat cooking us?

Knix again had trouble with the zone.

BAM had quite a game.  20/18/4.
Maybe wanted to make a statement that he was an all-star level PF.
But more likely just wanted to end the 6 game L streak.

Butler took over 3Q and then Hero-Duncan got hot from 3-land.
Nole had a string game, a number of nice blocks.

Barrett, Burks, Bullox were all quiet, combining for just 17.
Bullox couldn't contain Butler.
RJB wasn't much involved and then sat a long stretch of the 4Q.
Burks was active guarding the Heat shooters.  But only took 4 FG's.
Topping did nothing.  One sequence he fouled a driving Bam, for some reason ObiT thought Bam was heading right, so he moved out of position and then whacked him.
Then on the other end, ObiT shot a baseline airball over the rim.

Just 15 Knick assists.
Heat outboarded Knix including 13-6 on O-boards.

Duncan Robinson finished with by far the best +/- at +26.
I thought Spo waited too long to reinsert Butler and then Duncan in the 4Q.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 30, 2021, 04:08:36 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 30, 2021, 03:59:09 PM
So not one post on the Heat cooking us?


Maybe there's be more if there were fewer Should've drafted Ty Haliburton Obi is a bust posts
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 30, 2021, 04:15:40 PM
So you took your ball and went home ...
About as lame as the Knix 3Q.

And nobody has said ObiT is a bust.  A curious pick, looking sub-optimal.  Yes.

Otherwise, The ex-NBA star and current Brooklyn Nets coach, who recently converted to Orthodox Judaism, heard about the James Harden trade from his rabbi. (https://www.gq.com/story/amare-stoudemire-passover)

Quote
Typically, his days start early; he likes to squeeze in a 6:45am Talmud lesson before morning prayers, which start at 8am. At 11am, he studies his prayer book in Hebrew, so that he can better understand the words he says. At 1pm, he studies the laws of the Sabbath. At 2pm, he has a second Talmud lesson. He meets with a Hebrew tutor at 3pm. Stoudemire works as a player development assistant for the Brooklyn Nets, so much of this changes on the days when the team is in town and has practice. But even then Stoudemire will just reschedule whatever study he can for the evening.

I might have heard he became an Orthodox Jew, but wasn't aware Amare became so dedicated.  nice long article.

Quote
His friends, he said, now call him Yehoshafat
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jerrya on March 30, 2021, 06:05:07 PM
WOW...hard to believe!

"Dayton Star Obi Toppin Wins Wooden Award to Complete Award Sweep. Dayton forward Obi Toppin was named the Wooden Award men's Player of the Year, the award committee announced Tuesday. Last week, Toppin was given both the Naismith and Associated Press national player of the year awards."
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 30, 2021, 07:15:52 PM
He got TEN such awards

But likely just because he was old
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 30, 2021, 07:39:33 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 12, 2020, 06:35:06 PM
Re:  draft and the lead guard spot - I have no idea what tape Leon Rose - and even Thibs - could possibly watch to conclude that Smith or Ntlikina could start

Elfrid?  YES

A trade up - or a trade for a vet - or we pick up the Payton option - he's better than the current Reggie.

Just digging through some old predraft stuff
Title: Re: Trade Rumor
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 30, 2021, 07:50:49 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 13, 2020, 04:47:16 PM
https://www.inquisitr.com/6329332/ben-simmons-rockets-harden-76ers-westbrook-knicks/ (https://www.inquisitr.com/6329332/ben-simmons-rockets-harden-76ers-westbrook-knicks/)

3-way trade with Phila and Houston

Knicks get Russ
Philly gets Harden
Houston gets simmons

Knicks give up Randle SmithJr and Ellington

Weird for Knicks,  but good idea for Philly and Houston.

Wonder how we'd be sitting had we did something like this - and Obi got 26-28-30 minutes per right away.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 30, 2021, 07:54:13 PM
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2021/03/southwest-notes-lonzo-terry-thornwell-dieng.html

So lets start with the sign and trade offers for Ball.

Knicks can sign and trade a guy like Burks, right?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 30, 2021, 07:58:44 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 15, 2020, 07:41:25 PM
O'Connor mock

https://nbadraft.theringer.com/

Haliburton and the other Bey come our way

Fine with me

-exceptweshouldtakeCarey

Just a reminder I (as many on the forum) was fine wih Tyrese H.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 30, 2021, 08:02:53 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 16, 2020, 09:50:47 AM
Quote from: Kam on October 16, 2020, 12:55:02 AM
I've heard it described as a draft where if you're not picking 1 or 2 then it doesn't much matter where you pick in the top 10 as some talent will slide.

1. Is that a reasonable assertion?

If the above is true some might be tempted to call it a "deep draft" but my 2nd question is:

2. Is the draft class as a whole that good or are we going to be looking back in 7 years saying "wow.... only 1-2 all stars from this draft and only a couple other starters for good teams"

I guess you'd call that a "weak deep draft"

All just a guessing game at this point but i'm concerned that we're making a lot out of a little.

I am less bullish on Hayes than O'Connor is.  Even O says Hayes is all left hand

4 player draft for me up top

In no order

Wiseman
Avdija
Edwards
Ball

So sure. .  if we can't deal up or get a pantload to deal down, stay at 8, do your diligent research/interviews and welcome the new talent.

There will be some options after that to deal up from 27 I would think, for instance if you wanted a Smith or Achiuwa after taking Haliburton or a Ty Terry after taking Okongwu.

I would guess forward/guard combo with first 2 if Wiseman isn't in there.


Well, I did get my combo.

This is fun.  Page is 920ish.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 30, 2021, 08:12:55 PM
Though it's hard to know what individual roster moves to make since the Knix really need a complete overhaul.  Not one player on the team needs to stay or should be untouchable.  Is RJB or Mitch a legit building block or just all we have to work with?


Turned out to not be true, right?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 30, 2021, 08:14:27 PM
I disagree that Knicks need an overhaul

We have 3 starters locked in and several options to retain bench talent.

We could fly as is with DSJ and Knox starting, give them a chance to blossom - and potentially win 32-34 games

But I do expect upgrades in FA - and who knows what the #8 or higher will do to affect the overall strength of the team.

Will Frank take the step up in PER that he needs to off the pine?

Who leads, other than the coaching staff?  Yet to be determined.

OPTIMISM for new regime.

Good response
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 30, 2021, 08:15:03 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 19, 2020, 09:57:16 AM
Could it be OKORO, then QUICKLEY at 8 and 27?

PG QUICKLEY was only SEC Player of the Year.  And you guys have mentioned the Ky coaching connection

A couple of you had OKORO high on your list.

https://hoopshype.com/team/new-york-knicks/

Pretty sure this was the first forum mention of IQ
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 30, 2021, 08:20:39 PM
NBA Radio analyst this week squawked how "if you are New York, you DO NOT WANT TO BE NUMBER 8 IN THE EAST!"

Funny.

Yes.  I take a series with MIL, TOR or NJ - surely.

Progress.

And if we did accomplish this, this would mean that either some of our current youth and/or some additions turned out well - which again would signal optimism for the management team



And the crowd says AMEN.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 30, 2021, 08:25:23 PM
There are a dozen others that should be added to his EFFECTIVE BIG MEN list

And a dozen more after that as important contributors

Had Nerlens on the mind (others including Okafor as well - and surely some that didnt pan out as well) when typing this
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 30, 2021, 08:26:14 PM
THat's enough for now - maybe more tomorrow....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 30, 2021, 08:34:14 PM
Back to present day.......

Nice to see CASSIUS WINSTON finally get some run for Wiz

Avdija having a  rough night (0-7, 0-5) in matchup with CHA, who are in serious win now mode

WESTBROOK already a triple double with 4 minutes left in third

I wonder where he will play next year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 30, 2021, 08:44:31 PM
RUSS also looking for consecutive 20 assist games

I wonder how often this has happened (have to look up guys like Archibald, K Porter, Magic etc)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 30, 2021, 08:46:36 PM
For Hornets, our favorite polarizer GORDIE HAYWARD has his own strong line after 3Q - 24, 9 and 6

Would be grand to see Knicks-Hornets ina  best of 7 4/5 clash - please, Hoops Gods - let it be so
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 30, 2021, 09:50:07 PM
We want 4, 5, 6, 9, or 10. Playing in is much less lame if your pick still winds up in the lotto.

DRose needs to get healthy and up to speed and we need to fortify our frontcourt if we’re after 4,5, or 6. If not, 9 & 10 remain reasonable targets.

Not that many bottom feeders left on our schedule this season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 31, 2021, 07:17:46 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on March 30, 2021, 08:14:27 PM
Good response

So your praising your posts from 6 months back?
That'll draw everyone back ...

Quote
We could fly as is with DSJ and Knox starting, give them a chance to blossom - and potentially win 32-34 games

Yeah, with Thibs as coach? 
And be lucky to win half of that.

Quote
who knows what the #8 or higher will do to affect the overall strength of the team.

Next to nothing.

Quote
Will Frank take the step up in PER that he needs to off the pine?

No.  (Well I haven't checked his PER, but he has no step up)

Quote
Who leads, other than the coaching staff?  Yet to be determined.

Randle.
And maybe Taj.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on March 31, 2021, 02:32:32 PM
Bogdanx2 had a real nice game v PHX.
22 / 4 / 6 & 4 steals.  22 points on 4-8 on 3's.

Last 9 games 48% FG 42% on 3's.
Finally healthy.

I'd be happy to have him on NYK.
_________________________________________________
ATL has had a tough time getting healthy this season.
Besides Bogdan missing two months with a knee injury:
DeA Hunter has missed two months and counting with a knee injury.
Cam Reddish has missed a month with an Achilles problem.
Gallo has missed a dozen games, but that's to be expected.
Kris Dunn hasn't played one minute.  Might be back soon (ankle surgery on Dec 29)

Having a very deep team has helped them hang around .500
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 31, 2021, 03:03:33 PM
We aren't likely to face the Hawks in playoffs.   Think I prefer Charlotte.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 31, 2021, 04:25:59 PM
If I had to handicap it right now I wpuld have

4 - HEAT

5 - CELTICS

6 - HORNETS

7 - HAWKS

8 - KNICKS

9 - BULLS

10 - PACERS

out - Raptors
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 31, 2021, 06:05:05 PM
So.....Minnesota tonight

Excited to see Edwards again
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on March 31, 2021, 06:59:36 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on March 31, 2021, 02:32:32 PM
Bogdanx2 had a real nice game v PHX.
22 / 4 / 6 & 4 steals.  22 points on 4-8 on 3's.

Last 9 games 48% FG 42% on 3's.
Finally healthy.

I'd be happy to have him on NYK.
_________________________________________________
ATL has had a tough time getting healthy this season.
Besides Bogdan missing two months with a knee injury:
DeA Hunter has missed two months and counting with a knee injury.
Cam Reddish has missed a month with an Achilles problem.
Gallo has missed a dozen games, but that's to be expected.
Kris Dunn hasn't played one minute.  Might be back soon (ankle surgery on Dec 29)

Having a very deep team has helped them hang around .500

At 18 million a year for four years.

Uh huh.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 31, 2021, 08:04:08 PM
Sick - Clyde pubbing Quickley again on the pregame

Is he getting a percentage?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 31, 2021, 08:05:55 PM
At 18 million a year for four years.

Uh huh.

Not at all sure what the fuck this means

Chip - you used to be GOOD before New York legalized pot.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 31, 2021, 10:25:57 PM
If the offense in the closing minutes is just Just Get the Ball to Julius and then stand around...

(which reminds me of the Just get the ball to Melo and stand around)

....then you can't have Peyton in the game.

Because you can't kick it out to him for an open shot. He won't take it. And if he did, he probably won't make it.

Either Quickley or Burks has got to be in there at that point.
Title: WTF
Post by: carlos123 on March 31, 2021, 10:28:22 PM
What a disaster of a game! How can they collapse like this against a team like Minny?

On another note...
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on March 31, 2021, 08:05:55 PM

Chip - you used to be GOOD before New York legalized pot.

Better to be on weed than coke like you bum 💩
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 31, 2021, 10:55:24 PM
Wow

Who screwed the pooch at the end of this one?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 01, 2021, 01:34:04 AM
Life in Knicksland without Rose. Get well DR.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 01, 2021, 01:36:54 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on March 31, 2021, 08:05:55 PM
At 18 million a year for four years.

Uh huh.

Not at all sure what the fuck this means

Chip - you used to be GOOD before New York legalized pot.

Bogdan is seriously overpaid for a player of his abilities.

You’ve never been GOOD Kid, but you also haven’t been more laughable than you are today.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on April 01, 2021, 05:15:12 AM
Very thin team with small bench. Just worn down. OK to not see busts KK or Franky on floor. Build a core for next year. 3 solid starters and a couple of guards. Toppin the worst ever? Surprised he made the squad after camp.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on April 01, 2021, 10:27:59 AM
Toppin - based on the Weitzman article in the Post it appears that WWW was completely sold on IQ with the later 1st rounder, meaning the Knicks were not going to use the #8 on a guard, and thus no Halliburton.  That they took Toppin over other forwards, regardless of how they felt about Julius at the time, is a problem.  Hopefully he is a very very late bloomer..
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 01, 2021, 11:40:02 AM
50 games late?

Could be 100.

Chill.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 01, 2021, 11:42:43 AM
Starters were 30-60, 8-14, 10-13 but had FIFTEEN turnovers

Looks like we were just a victim of Anthony Edwards....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 01, 2021, 12:03:16 PM
Anthony Edwards has played 1,436 minutes for the Timberwolves this season. His first 936 were much less productive and impactful than his most recent 500. The first overall pick has made a mini leap in recent weeks. Wiseman, the second overall pick, has only played 713 minutes, half of Edwards’ allotment. The Warriors’ internal hope is that his rookie path, pushed back by a wrist injury, trends similarly as his minute total spikes past 1,000 with a healthy amount on a nightly basis. But it isn’t just about the raw minute total. The details within clearly matter. The Warriors have now decided to tie his minutes almost exclusively with Green and Curry, at least temporarily scrapping his inclusion in the second unit. That gives him Green as a confidence booster and protector on the defensive end and Curry as the space-creator and pick-and-roll partner offensively. – via Anthony Slater @ The Athletic
 Anthony Edwards, James Wiseman,

Goes to what I was saying of TOPPIN, who seldom gets to play with the first unit guys
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on April 01, 2021, 02:18:38 PM
I think you've got a point here.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 01, 2021, 03:00:12 PM
You might be right, but for most of the draft process I was advocating TyH (or Vassell) and then best PG left with the later pick.  With Mitch-Randle-RJB in place, why not draft a whole new, much-needed backcourt?

Closing minutes?  Our whole 4Q offense was iso Randle.
The most Melo-game Randle has played all year.  And on both ends, where Julius slacked on defense, especially in the 1Q where he gave up 3 open triples in the first 4+, minutes.  Randle's 1Q defense has been abysmal lately.

Really a terrible loss, with Minny making lots of efforts to give the game away.
25.4 secs up by one and Minny commits two ugly turnovers.
RJB creating a fallaway midrange J is just not his shot and he had Wolves longest defender on him.
Flipside, give Edwards much credit for making big plays late.
And McDaniels played a very strong game including solid D on Randle.  McD did not look like a rook.  Looked a helluva lot better than Obit.

Overall, Mini appears disjointed and unfocused too often and they waste possessions.  And as Clyde noted it's clear when they ratchet up their D for stretches, only to sink back into lethargy.  Looks like a poorly coached team unfamiliar with each other.  Lots of real sloppy and careless passing.  Knix had a lot of steals and deflections.

Rubio and Elf almost comically unwilling to shoot 3's at times.
With Rose out, Quix didn't score; Franc didn't play.
Taj played real well, was just mixing it up effectively, always around the ball near the rim on both ends.

Was very much a game of runs.
And giving up some extremely wide-open 3's helped Minny put together two big runs, late 2Q and early 4Q.
One example: Knix up by 11 a minute-plus into the 4Q and Burks just drifts way away from his man for no reason.  Absolutely no driving or cutting threat, but Burks inexplicably heads into the paint, allowing Beasley a wide open corner 3.  Egregious blunder.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 01, 2021, 03:13:15 PM
I get the concept, but who is going to get ObiT the ball in good position?
Most likely Rose or IQ (who throws good lobs) and both are 2nd uniters.
Simply if ObiT was reliable on D, he would play more.

Bogdan2 at a flat $18M is the same as starting at $16M rising to $20M over 4 years.
A legit sniper with ballhandling, some driving ability, passing, and average or above D.  Guy has a nice all-round game.  If we had Bogdan (or TyH), either could start, with Bullox as our backup SF.  If we need to save the money for a PG, I can understand that.  But Bogdan/TyH would help this current team significantly.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 02, 2021, 05:38:02 AM
Bogmonster with 28 Pts on 12-17 FG; 4-5 on 3's, 5 boards, 5 assists, 2 blocks and a steal in 45 minutes (in a dub-OT game).
Sure just one game, and Burks has had a game or tow like that, but just an example of what Bogdan can bring.
Was brought in to complement Trae and take pressure off Young Trae by helping with ballhandling and facilitating and knocking down shots. 
Things will come together for ATL when DeA Hunter returns to his 3&D wing role.

Don't forget that MIL, with championship aspirations, tried to sign-and-trade for Bogdan (https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/trade-grades-bucks-land-bogdan-bogdanovic-send-kings-donte-divincenzo-ersan-ilyasova-d-j-wilson/).  They were giving up DiVicenzo, DJ Wil and Ilyasova.  But Bogdan didn't agree to the new contract and went the FA route.  In MIL, Bogdan would have teamed up nicely with JRue in an all-new versatile backcourt.  Bogdan would have been MIL's primary sniper, along with Middleton.  Not sure why he didn't agree.

JRue - Bogdan - Midddleton - Giannis - Lopez
That's formidable.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 02, 2021, 11:18:02 AM
Not sure - but in your opinion could Milwaukee then have still completed the Holiday deal, which was

George Hill, Bledsoe and 5 number 1s (including 2020 pick Hampton) for JRUE and MERRILL?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 02, 2021, 12:25:21 PM
MIL had the Jrue deal in place first, securing a PG upgrade over Bledsoe who was not good in the playoffs.  Then tried to arrange an s-n-t deal for Bogdanovic.  Things got awkward with the deal leaking 3 days before trades were allowed.  The questionable nature of the deal timing might have been why Bogdan pulled out of it.  Somewhat unclear, but it was a bit shady.

In any case, two wholly separate deals with the Bogdan trade = DiVicenzo, DJ Wilson and Ilya, players uninvolved in the JRue trade.  So I don't see the any problem.
____________________________________

My point was that a top-tier team in MIL wanted Bogdan starting for them at $18 or whatever, and ATL with playoff aspirations did as well.  There was competition for his services and his contract is reasonable for his skill set (you usually pay a little extra in FA).

I would have tried to use FA to add a 4th legit Knick starter. 
I would have used the draft for the same, but we went with Toppings instead.
FVV, who might now wish we made an offer and he came to NY.  Or Bogdanx2.  Or Christian Wood, who went to a troubled team for a very affordable price. 
Any of those would have improved the NYK present and future.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 02, 2021, 12:35:02 PM
Quickley 8th in rookie fantasy ranks, just ahead of Maledon


https://sports.yahoo.com/fantasy-basketball-checking-in-on-the-nb-as-top-rookies-215314200.html
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 02, 2021, 12:39:07 PM
MIL had the Jrue deal in place first, securing a PG upgrade over Bledsoe who was not good in the playoffs.  Then tried to arrange an s-n-t deal for Bogdanovic.  Things got awkward with the deal leaking 3 days before trades were allowed.  The questionable nature of the deal timing might have been why Bogdan pulled out of it.  Somewhat unclear, but it was a bit shady.


ok, cool

just reading this now.....

https://www.actionnetwork.com/nba/bucks-are-all-in-trade-giannis-jrue-holliday
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 02, 2021, 12:47:22 PM
On your draft point - I dont think Vassel or Haliburton would have been a  Knicks starter
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 02, 2021, 02:15:42 PM
My point was to try to draft a player who could become a starter.  And we didn't really try to do that, unless we anticipated moving on from Randle.

We needed a wing and a PG starter.
Vassal was my primary backup shooter choice if TyH was gone.
But then Avdija dropped, so TyH and Avdija looked like the two best options.
TyH certainly looks like he'll be a future starter.  You'd hope Avdija will become one too.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 02, 2021, 02:48:43 PM
Eh...

Trade up would have yielded that - all accounts say we tried to to get Ball.

But I think after that we didnt feel a starter was available from the draft - at least not for this year.

Toppin fell in perfectly if Randle had been just adequate.

Still fits OK.

Could we deal him?

Sure.  All options open.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 02, 2021, 02:52:03 PM
Vassal was my primary backup shooter choice if TyH was gone.


Actually looking back you had leapfrogged Haliburton with Vassell.  Neither would have started day 1.  Even Ball likely wouldnt have.  Edwards, maybe.  Eventual starters?  Remains to be seen for ALL 2020 draftees.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on April 02, 2021, 04:24:21 PM
I don't wanna be a buzz kill for the devotee (who shall remain nameless) of the racist Trump-inspired voting restrictions devised by wise Georgian politicians , but Coke did indeed turn, Delta too, and repudiated voter-suppression in Georgia and anywhere else.

And today so did Major League Fucking Baseball.

No 2021 All Star Game in Atlanta.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 02, 2021, 04:37:39 PM
Barrett and Bullock questionable tonight
Title: Chamaco also turns
Post by: carlos123 on April 02, 2021, 06:14:09 PM
Quote from: elephant on April 02, 2021, 04:24:21 PM
I don't wanna be a buzz kill for the devotee (who shall remain nameless) of the racist Trump-inspired voting restrictions devised by wise Georgian politicians , but Coke did indeed turn, Delta too, and repudiated voter-suppression in Georgia and anywhere else.

And today so did Major League Fucking Baseball.

No 2021 All Star Game in Atlanta.

Oh, but the devotee, AKA Chamaco Cartero, also turns.

See his posts, he's no longer promoting Coke, he's now selling RC, whatever the fuck that is.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3e8Sr_7WQVJSJrOMdXAyNluv9VG6NvtRGtTi2nxscV1I516SM7OsuwW45Lk9HwnBULN0_pGHrjr4d1AwIYiuYFR82aoqPuX2Pd3LiznHlZnYyob8UIqvPEjBBuDq7e0o8TTr9TMl-M1mPj9oVOZw4s0=w626-h570-no?authuser=0)

Chamaco is very flexible when it comes to that, and he adjusts to the situation 😜

PS. Hey LES, what have you been up to? No posting here for a while, what's up with you?, I miss my doggie 🐶
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on April 02, 2021, 08:22:09 PM
OBI ASCENDING!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 02, 2021, 08:43:26 PM
Skillset!


heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 02, 2021, 08:46:27 PM
Just loving the KP performance as well
Title: What's up Thibs?
Post by: carlos123 on April 02, 2021, 09:04:31 PM
Quote from: elephant on April 02, 2021, 08:22:09 PM
OBI ASCENDING!

Bench was playing great for a change, pulled and never returned. WTF
Title: Re: What's up Thibs?
Post by: chipstern on April 02, 2021, 10:16:08 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on April 02, 2021, 09:04:31 PM
Quote from: elephant on April 02, 2021, 08:22:09 PM
OBI ASCENDING!

Bench was playing great for a change, pulled and never returned. WTF

Thank You. 

I was talking with a friend on the phone, and I predicted that Thibs would reflxively pull Obi and go with his starters. 

Obi had 9 points in a significant seven minutes in the first half on two tough dribble drives, a jumper and memorable put back slam.  His energy and confidence were solid on 4-5, two rebounds and a steal.  He was in terrific rhythm in that second quarter stretch, and we built a lead off of his play and that of the second unit's.  Taj, Obi and Rose had the only + stat lines.  As Monica McNutt put it, he was getting to the paint and going downhill.  A good run, showing his repertoire, more than standing in the fucking corner and hoisting threes, which is mainly what they have had him doing. 

Also, I loves me some Quickley, but you can see when he is driving to the paint, he has a one track mind and is not looking to distribute the ball, but is thinking score, Score, SCORE.  The defenses see that and adjust accordingly. 

Yes, we were tired.  Clearly Julius and RJ had no legs. 

But just as clearly, a rusty Rose had 4 assists in 25 minutes and while Julius couldn't hit the broad side of a barn [5-20], he had 11 assists. 

In a combined 36 minutes, Payton and IQ had ONE.  The 3 B's, Bullock, Barrett and Burks?  One. 

Actually, with the exception of Randle [37 minutes], and Barrett [31], minutes were divided up in the 20s, with the exception of Elfrid [14] and Obi [11].  So like a nine man rotation. 

Last two games were winnable, but we took our feet off of the throttle when we were not running out of gas. 

Oh well. 

PS: Interesting, that at 17-18-19 Tim Hardaway was a runaway train, but at BB at 18 x 4 is a heady signing. 


THIBS REALLY BLEW IT. 
Title: Meanwhile
Post by: chipstern on April 02, 2021, 10:23:24 PM
The Knicks are signing center Norvel Pelle to a 10-day contract.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 02, 2021, 10:42:46 PM
Practice guy
Title: Portland Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on April 03, 2021, 12:38:27 AM
By the way, the Portland Knicks were better with Enes Kanter at Center than they are with Jusuf Fucking Nurkic.

PS. Does anybody know what the fuck is the RC that Chamaco wants us all to buy?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 03, 2021, 02:53:56 AM
1Q
Not sure why KZ is taking (and missing) lots of long 3's.
Is anyone going to bother him if he's near the arc?
Brunson looks nice.

2nd unit comes in and right away IQ and Burks cna 3's.  Something the starters just can't do.  Last minutes of 1Q, Burks is guarding Doncic.  What's that about.  First go, Doncic goes right past Burks at slow speed, then slows down to get fouled from behind as he makes a little floater.  Next Burks gets screened off and is out of the play.  I think RJB was still in the game, and has the strength and quickness to matchup with Doncic.  Though maybe RJB had 2 fouls already (?)

2Q
ObiT comes alive (though still 2 fouls and a bricked 3 in his fine stretch)
Burks looking sharp
Taj with the D and hustle plays.
Knix 2nd unit killing DAL.

Mavs just not making the extra pass.
Brunson draws 3 Knix and gets blocked by Taj.  Er, guys were open.
6:44 mark Richardson misses a contested 18' J when KZ is standing at the arc wide open.  Mavs also throwing some terrible passes (mainly Doncic, who has looked really off)
Looks like a day game for the Mavs, low energy, sloppy, not doing naythign extra.

Breen seems to think the Knix transition D has been good this year.  He wrong.

J Rich starts looking smooth late 2Q.  Clyde said he thought Rich could develop into an all-star.  I had the same impression when he with MIA.  Potential of close to an all-star, but he goes passive, takes too many tough shots, not always involved/focused enough. 

Crazy 2Q.  Knix with a 13-2 run; Mavs respond with a 12-0 run.
Randle & Doncic a pair of stumblebums.  KZ mostly good defense, occasional iffy boarding, and terrible long 3's.  When I saw DAl a few times 2 weeks back they were posting KZ on smaller fellers and running some Doncic/KZ PnR's.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jerrya on April 03, 2021, 07:33:43 AM
Sad to say but I don't think J. Randle is our answer.  He's not a clutch guy we can depend on when needed.  He consistently dribbles into double teams and gets stripped from the back side...bad court awareness.  He was a pleasent surprise in the beginning of the season but when all said and done, on balance he's not the one we can build around.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 03, 2021, 09:57:32 AM
His defense has really slipped as well.
But Randle was never likely be a 1A option on a high seed.
We always would need a star to pair with Randle so that he cold be 2nd or 3rd option.  Julius hasn't been nearly as focused or good since the all-star game.
I think the physical and mental toll just wore him down.
Randle is 2nd in mins per game (behind Harden).

Even on a poor game when he was not there, Randle came within two boards of a triple-double.

One thing good about Randle's regression is that now he's more likely to sign the 4/$108M extension.  Otherwise he needs to finish this season and then grind through another year at a high level to try to earn more.  Likely better off getting the 5 year guaranteed Dolanbucks now.
Also, if we get a legit starting PG form wherever, Randle's assists and touches will go down.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 03, 2021, 10:00:05 AM
1st Half:
KZ in an odd performance gets a T after the half expires.  Not even clear what he's complaining about.
IQ starts the 3Q so he can make the FT, to bring the Knix to within 2.
Why they are behind is unclear.  Starters not playing well.
Whole 1st half had a day game vibe to it.

3Q:
9:30 in the 3Q Kleber gets a wide open 3.  Randle simply walked away from Kleber on the arc, saunters into the paint to guard KZ, and taps Bullox telling him to cover his man about to get the ball 25 feet away.  Jeez, I'd be annoyed if someone in my pickup game pulled that crap.  Weird.

KZ gets on track.  Playing more inside and midrange.
Ugly 3Q.  Ugly game.

4Q
Uh, Brunson continues to look nice.
Luka takes over.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 03, 2021, 10:11:56 AM
Hardaway comes off the bench behind Funky-Smith, because of his D.
A pretty expensive 6th man.

I'm not convinced you've ever seen Bogdanovic play, but his D is solid, he passes and can create and has a deadly shot.  A better more versatile and reliable player than Tim Jr.

Btw, Hardaway shot 32% on 3's his 1st year/2nd stint with NYK, then was shooting 39% FG the next year when we dealt him.  Was an erratic disappointment.
Has been a significantly better shooter on DAL.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 03, 2021, 11:46:38 AM
Teams obviously keying on Randle now.  This is where a healthy Rose would come in handy.  Burks picking up some slack, given good opportunity.  Barrett just not the type player yet to be ON, effective every time out.
Title: Long Long Dicks, Short Short Memories
Post by: chipstern on April 03, 2021, 04:19:49 PM
Ah, Knicks fans. 

One bad shooting game and Randle is a bum. 

With who else besides Burks hitting any shots, defenses collapse on him, and just as often as not we have seen him overcome crushing coverage. 

Yes, dribbles into double teams....like the coverage doesn't swarm towards him.  Whol else are they going to collapse on? 

Yet in spite of that, last night, JR had ELEVEN ASSISTS.  Hello!

Julius is most def someone we can build around. 

But as BoD is wont to point out, we need a top tier NBA 3&D...Bullock is a good role player, and a tough defender, but has yet to display the kind of consistency from the outside, let alone the abillity to break down defenses off the dribble. 

And PG...in case no one has noticed, Elfrid appears to have lost Thibs' confidence.  On one hand, he displays some offensive cunning in getting to the rack off the dribble, but his contributions as a rudder, a facilitator, seem more and more negiligble with each successive game.  Lasy night, our starting point guard played all of 14 minutes and had one assist.  WTF?  Rose and Quickley were a combined 3-19 in 51 minutes.  Rose had 4 assists, IQ none.   

And RJ had an off night.  Not surprising on a night when JR was not commanding coverage with his short of long game, and when Burks was the only Knicks With The Knack. 

When we are getting effective PG play from Rose, who has been MIA of late, and outside shooting from Juluis Alec, Reggie and IQ, it opens up driving lanes for RJ and allows him to get into rhythm and get confidence in his shot.  And while his shooting has defintely improved, RJ remains more of a scorer than a shooter. 

AGAIN, surround RJ with shooters, and get a top tier PG, and watch his game ascend even further. 

Tall orders. 

Is RJ, still growing physically and skill-wise, our 3&D of the future?  Thibs sure doesn't seem to trust Knox.  Ergo Bullock. 

PG.  Assuming Rose comes back, he projects as a role player, 20 minutes a night.  IQ?  Presently he is more Lou Williams than Avery Bradley.  Elfrid?  Frank?  Don't seem them as Knicks going forward, and as per Fizz and Hornacek and Fisher, we appear to run very hot and cold on Frank. 

Obi.  I really like Obi and his progress last night, irrespective of yet another dying dove from three, was heartening. 

But where do his minutes come from going forward.  He is a genuine 6'9" with a high motor, great athleticism and hops, who teased us last night with his abillity to score down low and play around the rack.  Having him camp out at the three point line is a waste of his talent.  In any event, we are still 'fessing it out, because Thibs simply will not commit to sufficient minutes with either the second or first unit to let him play through his burps and glitches and build confidence and RHYTHM. 

Here's an idea, and it is a stretch, to put it mildly.  Perhaps Obi needs to be repurposed the way Miami deploys Bam.  Not sure how tenable that is, but Obi needs to be around the basket it seems.   

In the meantime, Thibs is Thibs, and that means that Obi and Knox, let alone Ntilikina and Harper, see little to no daylight.  He is committed to the playoffs, God Bless, and that means VETERANS, which means Rose, Bullock and Burks, it DID MEAN Payton, but the bloom seems to have gone off that rose.  Veterans, which was the crux, I believe, of BoD's enthusiasm for Kenny Atkinson, in that he was more of a player development coach.  While Thibs is more of a vet's coach, and his genius for defense and transforming the culture, he DOES tend to lean on his vets, to pile minutes on those players who have earned his trust, to keep his puppies on a very short leash.  As far as player development, it is not fair to take everything away from Thibs: Randle and Barrett, Mitchell and Noels, Burks and Quickley have all made strides under the tutelage of Thibs and Bryant and Payne. 

We are now 24-25 going into Detroit so after tonight, only 22 games remaining. 

Forgetting the playoffs for a moment....

* Obi is a serious talent, but the Knicks seriously blew it when Haliburton fell in our laps.  Spilt milk.  Oh, well....

* What are our goals and expectations going into the draft and free agency?  That seems pretty clear...shooting, Shooting, SHOOTING.  A 3&D if a special one is available.  And, DEAR GOD, a facilitating point guard.  Payton is a goner.  Frank seems to have no role going forward.  Harper has talent as a facilitator and a shooter and a scorer, but no way Thibs is going to toss him into the deep end of the pool.  His G League triumphs notwithstanding, is he yet another Brazdeikis in waiting? 

So three steps foward, two steps back.  Our Knicks.  We have ascended and gone into retrograde in cycles throughout this season.  How do we respond to the loss of Mitchell and to this disspiriting stretch? 

Stay tuned. But for goodness sake, don't issue any conclusive phatwahs, either oh woe is me negative or we have arrived positive.  For now, hovering around .500, teasing us with a playoff run, and resuscitating a commitment to defense will have to do.  We cannot get too high or too low.  Take a deep breath Knicks fans. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 03, 2021, 04:27:04 PM
Hardaway having a nice shooting year at 45/40/78

Not too sure its worth quibbling on THJ vs BOGBOG

Title: context
Post by: bodiddley on April 03, 2021, 06:40:55 PM
Bogdanovic does more on both ends than Hardaway.
But we were discussing Bogdanovic now and his new contract to Tim Jr. as a 2nd time Knick getting paid a then $18M and shooting poorly.
We weren't comparing DAL Tim to ATL Bog.

otherwise, DAL has to make a decision on how much to pay Hardaway.  I assume they want to keep him, and he has a solid role there, but at what price?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 03, 2021, 06:43:53 PM
I'm not convinced you've ever seen Bogdanovic play, but his D is solid, he passes and can create and has a deadly shot.  A better more versatile and reliable player than Tim Jr.


My bad - should have been more clear -

this is what I was commenting on.
Title: Re: Long Long Dicks, Short Short Memories
Post by: carlos123 on April 03, 2021, 08:14:35 PM
Quote from: chipstern on April 03, 2021, 04:19:49 PM

In the meantime, Thibs is Thibs, and that means that Obi and Knox, let alone Ntilikina and Harper, see little to no daylight.  He is committed to the playoffs, God Bless, and that means VETERANS, which means Rose, Bullock and Burks, it DID MEAN Payton, but the bloom seems to have gone off that rose.  Veterans, which was the crux, I believe, of BoD's enthusiasm for Kenny Atkinson, in that he was more of a player development coach.  While Thibs is more of a vet's coach, and his genius for defense and transforming the culture, he DOES tend to lean on his vets, to pile minutes on those players who have earned his trust, to keep his puppies on a very short leash.  As far as player development, it is not fair to take everything away from Thibs: Randle and Barrett, Mitchell and Noels, Burks and Quickley have all made strides under the tutelage of Thibs and Bryant and Payne. 


BoZ's enthusiasm for Kenny Atkinson, and mine for keeping Mike Miller.

Just sayin... 😉
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 03, 2021, 09:40:02 PM
And PG...in case no one has noticed, Elfrid appears to have lost Thibs' confidence.  On one hand, he displays some offensive cunning in getting to the rack off the dribble, but his contributions as a rudder, a facilitator, seem more and more negiligble with each successive game.  Lasy night, our starting point guard played all of 14 minutes and had one assist.  WTF?  Rose and Quickley were a combined 3-19 in 51 minutes.  Rose had 4 assists, IQ none.   


err.......

Payton delivered 17 points (6-12 FG, 1-1 3Pt, 4-5 FT), five rebounds, four assists and two steals across 28 minutes in Wednesday's loss against the Timberwolves.


11-9-6 tonight



You're all fucking idiots
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on April 03, 2021, 10:17:21 PM
Perhaps, perhaps not....

But only you are the time-tested, board certified:

stupidest fuck who ever lived

Carry on!
Title: Chip, this for your info
Post by: carlos123 on April 03, 2021, 10:36:47 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on April 03, 2021, 09:40:02 PM

err.......

You're all fucking idiots

Since you have him on ignore, I just thought this jewel was deserving of your attention 😁🤣

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3c7rcjMNYu8sSpYKPdRerdL7O_ClmcvSntHqo9O9eRXtnU7SzUuvyijxm5tO8hCtGG9okCYth71PuHRdBS9CoYnJcWE0Mb15e8DmaCGSeiUpcwKrPg-SMWaHK9wYPykrifodKdV1VF5R-j6orar-rmf=w626-h570-no?authuser=0)

PS. What a nice game to watch, relaxing from beginning to end, and we even saw more than 10 minutes of Obi. The new center only got 3 minutes, but wow, HE'S HUNGRY!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 03, 2021, 10:47:59 PM
Pelle is a bad man. Good signing.

Everyone looks good in a 40 point roll over.

I guess we didn’t like going down to the Mavs.

Nice fucking game.

2nd or 3rd good game by Payton all year. It would be nice if he turned some kind of corner.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 04, 2021, 01:25:10 AM
Hayward will be helping the Hornets as much as LaMelo will throughout April. Gotta check injury history before handing out huge contracts.
Title: Just like KP
Post by: carlos123 on April 04, 2021, 01:31:46 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 04, 2021, 01:25:10 AM
Hayward will be helping the Hornets as much as LaMelo will throughout April. Gotta check injury history before handing out huge contracts.

KP not injured, but missing half the games, as a precaution to preserve his fragile legs.

That deal with Dallas was really not that bad: addition by subtraction.

Or, like the Kamster used to say: “Porzingis tosses salads in Dallas” 😜
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 04, 2021, 06:50:46 AM
A case could certainly have been made not to give KZ a max contract because of his injury risk/health concerns.  But that's not what went down in Knickland, as far as I understand.  And no matter the impetus, Knix should have gotten a better return for a high-level player than the nothing we got.

I'm on the 1Q on replay:
DET looks like 5 guys who never played together before.  I've had more coherent pickup teams in the park.  Randle killing them with 3's and they never adjusted.  DET's 2nd unit comes in and seems to have heard that the Knix have trouble with zones, so they zone up like a squad that never practiced zones before.  They'd be in good shape if Knix only had 4 players out there.  But that pesky 5th Knick has proven nettlesome.  Clyde praises DET for swarming to the ball on one possession in which first they ignored Randle, then had twp guys zoom to him leaving RJB wide open.  Sometimes Clyde ball-watches too much.


Not many 1Q negatives for NYK or positives for DET.
But DET's first FG comes as Randle fails to get back in transition.  Shoot a straight on 3 and you're the one who has to get back, and it's not as if his man sprinted right to the basket.  Later another poor Knick transition D, as for some reason, Randle tells a G to cover the middle as Randle opts to defend the far corner 3,
but he doesn't notice the actual play with bulky I. Stewart steaming downcourt with Noel behind him.  Randle needed to stay in the middle and send the guard out to defend the corner 3.  Both of those transition plays, Killer Hayes made nice long passes to his lead man.  It's really the only thing he's done well in the 1st half, but those were nice push-ahead passes.  Funny how Noel clobbers Stewart as he goes up to dunk, but it was called a non-shooting foul.  Unless Knick announcers got it wrong and it was just called out of bounds without a foul.

Anywho, Knix taking vengeance out on a crummy Pistons team for last night's loss.
But with NYK on the 2nd game of a Home-Road B2B, DET should have come out with energy and attacking, not chucking lazy 3's.  Embarrassing start for DET.

After a made (Randle J) basket, Cory Joe hurries the ball upcourt.  It's a 3-on-5 push, and you can hear Thibs bellowing turn-around, turn-around in the empty arena.  Randle again disinterested, and Cory Joe appears to have a direct lane to the hoop, until ELF fouls him from the side.  3-on-5 after a made basket.  smh
Knick transition D has been cringe-worthy all-season.  Lots of poor awareness and recognition in transition.  Rose has been about the best at getting back and making plays. 

So Knix beating the snot out of DET all 1Q, on an H-R B2B, and Thibs plays Randle the entire quarter?   Hmm
Title: Randle plays horse
Post by: bodiddley on April 04, 2021, 07:27:37 AM
As far as I can tell, DET never got closer than 17 after the Knix went up 21-3.
So why did Randle play 30 mins on the tail end of a blowout B2B?
Baffling.  Julius didn't need to play more than 20 mins.
Could have ended his night after he scored 20 in the 1Q.
Thibs a bit of a maniac at times.

Bizarrely the Knix 44 victory was just the 3rd biggest blowout of the night.
UTA won by 46; POR by 48.
I seem to recall a bunch of blowouts yesterday or the day before as well.  Perhaps some teams rolling over and going for development and the lottery at this stage.  Only 1/3 of the season left.

In other blowouts:
Don Mitchell 21 mins: Gobert 20; no Utah starter more than 24.
Lillard 25 mins, but wasn't til the 3Q where they ripped a huge lead (max was 19 point 1st half lead).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 04, 2021, 11:27:11 AM
Would we take Porzingis now, at his current contract?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 04, 2021, 11:31:50 AM
Did we sign Randle with KP's money?
Who is better?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: zupzup2 on April 04, 2021, 03:00:45 PM
For me it is super easy: Randle is much more valuable to this team than KP. This is true both in terms of actual numbers and deliverables (other than blocked shots of course, but we have a couple of good bodies there as well it seems), but more importantly in terms of leadership and attitude. KP will never be more than a glorified long range shooter, and a fragile one it would appear. This is a VERY rare case where Phil was on to something.
Title: Dumbest White Man West Of The Pecos
Post by: chipstern on April 04, 2021, 03:27:58 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on April 03, 2021, 10:17:21 PM
Perhaps, perhaps not....

But only you are the time-tested, board certified:

stupidest fuck who ever lived

Carry on!

Am I to deduce from Dawg and Carlos that our Fox News contributing editor has been casting aspersions in my general direction or simply soiling the carpet. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/03/us/politics/trump-donations.html?smid=fb-share&fbclid=IwAR3mQe6jBOiUJD1KerWl9En0ANykYmLWygOlofrryskY5IypcuDksbIjooc (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/03/us/politics/trump-donations.html?smid=fb-share&fbclid=IwAR3mQe6jBOiUJD1KerWl9En0ANykYmLWygOlofrryskY5IypcuDksbIjooc)

Probably upset at all of the money The Grifter In Chief purloined from his bank account.

Stacy Blatt was in hospice care last September listening to Rush Limbaugh’s dire warnings about how badly Donald J. Trump’s campaign needed money when he went online and chipped in everything he could: $500.

It was a big sum for a 63-year-old battling cancer and living in Kansas City on less than $1,000 per month. But that single contribution — federal records show it was his first ever — quickly multiplied. Another $500 was withdrawn the next day, then $500 the next week and every week through mid-October, without his knowledge — until Mr. Blatt’s bank account had been depleted and frozen. When his utility and rent payments bounced, he called his brother, Russell, for help.

What the Blatts soon discovered was $3,000 in withdrawals by the Trump campaign in less than 30 days. They called their bank and said they thought they were victims of fraud.

“It felt,” Russell said, “like it was a scam.”

But what the Blatts believed was duplicity was actually an intentional scheme to boost revenues by the Trump campaign and the for-profit company that processed its online donations, WinRed. Facing a cash crunch and getting badly outspent by the Democrats, the campaign had begun last September to set up recurring donations by default for online donors, for every week until the election.

(https://www.geo.tv/assets/uploads/updates/2020-12-08/322999_1377327_updates.jpg)
Title: Thibs
Post by: chipstern on April 04, 2021, 03:57:53 PM
As per BoD and Thibs' minutes patterns regarding Julius, perhaps Coach is obsessive, or perhaps he simply has muscle memory of big leads evaporating. 

Julius had a crappy shooting night against the Mavs, and the Nyets beckon, so Coach wanted to put the Pistons away. 

Burks missed both of his shots and only played 16 minutes, but had 4 assists.  IQ had 12 points and 3 assists. 

Peyton had 9 assists, after a desultory effort against the Mavs, even hit a trey and an angel got its wings. 

I thought Obi and Knox looked good and fired up in their cameos, and clearly all that stuff about practicing hard ain't BS.  Both deserve more minutes.  We shall see. 

NORVEL
PELLE

Now THAT was one of the coolest Knicks debuts in terms of setting a tone. 

My underdawg, our diminutive PG in waiting Jared Harper, hoists him a lob for the alley oop, and he dislocated his finger on the rim.  With a smile on his face they pop in back into place, he drains one of two FTs, and on the other end, blocks not one but TWO shots at close range by tough Detroit rook Isaiah Stewart. 

A rim protector.  Nice pickup.  Not as sexy as Drummond or Cousins, but hey. 

PS: If you watch the replay, Toppin's reaction behind the baseline on the second block is preiceless. 


Bulls beating the Nets.

Hope springs eternal. 
Title: Be Careful What You Wish For
Post by: chipstern on April 04, 2021, 04:02:15 PM
Victor Oladipo: 'One leg is stronger than the other'

Ira Winderman: Victor Oladipo revealed tonight that a strength deficit between his legs remains, “One leg is stronger than the other. So I have some hypertrophy in one leg than the other. So working my way back and finding my balance is something I’m continuing to work at.” – via Twitter IraHeatBeat
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 04, 2021, 05:25:51 PM
You know Vic will keep working. He looks very natural on the Heat. 

RJ & Randle got one full shift less run against Detroit than they normally would have in a close game. Let’s see how often they can give Thibs the option of doing that again in our remaining games. Hopefully because we’re that far ahead.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 04, 2021, 08:22:13 PM
5-23
1-10
3-7 free throws

with Heat

Vic better get it goin soon.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 05, 2021, 12:12:20 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on April 04, 2021, 11:31:50 AM
Did we sign Randle with KP's money?
Who is better?

Sort of.  But not really yet.  If we give Randle a max contract in the Summer then he's got the KZ contract/salary slot.

If you are asking if Randle has had a better season than KZ, the answer is pretty obvious.  But not terribly meaningful to compare Randle's career year with KZ's injury comeback tour. 

Better? 
We'll see next year when presumably KZ is healthy and Randle has to try to maintain a high level (and is perhaps a bit less hungry).  Not sure I'd like to be paying either of them $30M a year

No matter, if we were moving on from KZ, we simply needed to get a better return.  DAL was willing to give up assets and sign an injured KZ to a max deal.  I'm sure there were other potential suitors as well.   We made a bad deal and got little back in exchange for a significant asset.  Young potential franchise players/borderline all-stars rarely come available.   A poor trade and all around poorly handled situation .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 05, 2021, 01:04:03 AM
Knox hit a pair of late 3's up around 40 points.  Then another a few mins later.
Not exactly pressure shots, but good for the confidence.

Lilliputian Jared Harp gets some last 2 min run, and immediately gets obliterated on a screen.

1:50 left, a DET floater kicks around the rim, and you can clearly hear Theo Pinson advise the ball to "get the fuck out of there" on the MSG broadcast.  Knix up by 44, so I guess he really wanted that rebound.  Not easy to come by stats on the bench.
Comes down and jacks a 3.

Pelle makes a big impression late.
Dislocated digit on a dunk attempt.
Shoots the FT's, blocks consecutive shots and secures the loose ball.
Tough guy who is unafraid.  Welcome Norvelle.

Fun ending.  Thibs should have gone to 2nd unit earlier and then 3rd unit sooner.
Wish we got more than 2 minutes of Harper and Pelle grant.
Despite relegated to the 3rd unit, Franc was energetic and highly supportive of Pelle.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 05, 2021, 10:47:12 AM
A leg imbalance is common after a prolonged lower limb injury/recovery.
Can be dangerous when you play high level sports, as the compensation puts unaccustomed pressures on joints, ligaments, tendons.

Interesting how SacKings completely remade their bench mid-season.
Can't recall any team doing such before.

Swapped Cory Joe for Delon.
Stole Terence Davis for a 2nd rounder.
Flipped Bjelica for Mo Hark and Curtis Sliwa.
Elevated Chimezie Metu to the rotation.
Waived Jabari Park

Nothing stunning, but I think they got better with each move.  And they really needed to shake things up.  Though still banking on the same underperforming starters.  One of the better NBA offenses, but D has been their Achilles.

Bagley getting injured bumped tyH into starting.
Which they should have gone to earlier.
Try to catch the tyH show some night.
Guy just makes plays.  Had 11 assists v. MIL.

Late in a close game, tyH drove baseline drawing Brook Lopez's attention, dished to a waiting/open Rich Holmes for one of his patented flip shots.  Front rims it, and as the rebound arrives in Lopez's hands, tyH punches it out from behind, directly to Hield who cans a 3.  I think that cut the lead to 2 with under 2 mins left.  Just a heady play for a G in clutch time.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 05, 2021, 01:05:36 PM
A leg imbalance is common after a prolonged lower limb injury/recovery.
Can be dangerous when you play high level sports, as the compensation puts unaccustomed pressures on joints, ligaments, tendons.

I have no doubt Oladipo may still have an imbalance.  But good medical people have cleared him, which would not be so if the malady was as it is being made out.  Vic has to man up and shoot better.  He may never be his athletic old self but needs to adjust, become something else of high value.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 05, 2021, 03:00:31 PM
Re:  Kings

All numbers down for Haliburton after season turned into March - excepting FT%

Not surprising - he set a blistering pace with the percentages.  But assists and boards also much lower
Title: Knicks Hype Video - midseason edition
Post by: Kam on April 05, 2021, 06:27:14 PM
https://twitter.com/__Shank/status/1379195087213756416?s=20 (https://twitter.com/__Shank/status/1379195087213756416?s=20)

The latest hype video I helped curate and edit... Featuring clips from game 32-42
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 05, 2021, 09:00:21 PM
ALIZE just wants it more
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 05, 2021, 09:25:53 PM
Does this coaching staff teach boxing out?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 05, 2021, 09:36:49 PM
Jeff Green and Alize Johnson were the difference.

We’ve got all the makings of a team that can win these games. We just need a bit more seasoning.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 05, 2021, 09:39:01 PM
KYRIE is just the best....




(if not Harden)
Title: Kyrie Cartero
Post by: carlos123 on April 06, 2021, 01:04:17 AM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on April 05, 2021, 09:39:01 PM
KYRIE is just the best....




(if not Harden)

Not good enough to beat Chicago
Title: Dear Coach Thibs
Post by: chipstern on April 06, 2021, 10:28:49 AM
Loves me some Julius.  He is our bell cow and we will go as far as he will carry us.  I mean he is a walking triple double, and as unselfish as they come, as witnessed by his assists totals. 

BUT YOU ARE PLAYING HIM TOO MANY GODDAMN MINUTES. 

Clearly, by game's end, he was running on empty and a touch gimpy from an apparent thighg bruise. 

Not that Julius would ever give in to fatigue or pain or make excuses. 

But with seconds remaining to tie, and everyone in the arena knowing where the ball was goiing? 

You've got this puppy Obi Toppin, who is surely rough around the edges, and a ways from being a finished product, let alone a consistent force on both ends of the floor, but he has a Shelby Cobra V8 under the hood, a competitive fire, and a skill set that will only get better with useage.  It ain't just a matter of him getting floor time, but of allowing Julius to have something left in the tank with five minutes to go in the fourth quarter. 

I defer to you in most matters Thibs, but you do have this well deserved rep, not only for loving your vets, but for running your rotation players into the ground. 

Last night Julius played 39 minutes and Obi played 9. 

Might I humbly suggest, oh, trying a 32-16 split.  Yes, yes, I understand that given our inconsistent PG play, we depend on Julius, much as we depend on him to score and board, to be our rudder out there on the court, in lieu of a dominating presence at the point.  I reckon this is why in his baby steps, Obi often seems to be over passing and too deferentual. 

And the numbers surely don't lie.  As a team last night we had 12 assists, while Julius as a team mate had 12.  RJ is often counted upon as a facilitator, and while he has an excellent scoring and shooting night, on 4-6 from trey, and 4-4 from the FT line, he has no assists, and like Julius, five turnovers a piece. 

I mean, I get it, I get it....you surely don't feel comfortable when JR and RJ are not out there on the floor, but there would appear to be a ripple effect from all of that useage, which is when push comes to shove, perhaps, they are a step slow from fatigue, and there DOES SEEM TO BE A RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN TURNOVERS AND FATIGUE, though you would never hear them making excuses. 

Sure, we played a strong first half, and even with a surfeit of turnovers were still in a position to win or tie in the final seconds.  But some critical turnovers and being a step slow on the offensive boards? 

Hey, what do I know?  You'll never hear JR or RJ citing useage and faigue as a factor. 

But all those minutes sure seem to pile up.  Not everyone is a John Havlicek. 

Anyway, keep up the good work, Thibs. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 06, 2021, 12:36:32 PM
Julius Randle plays horse ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 06, 2021, 01:25:20 PM
Chip with the cause/effect dissertation on a choke by Randle.

Blah blahhhhhhh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 06, 2021, 01:36:25 PM
I like Obi but Thibs sees the game.  Cant just have Toppin out there and leak points

1st quarter - up ten.  Obi in, moves to up 4

4th quarter - tied.  Obi in - moves to down 4

Casue and effect there?  I dont know - but Thibs seemed to feel it

Just a clutch 3 in crunch time by Kyrie, followed by a Burks dagger to tie.  Then a great defensive trip where we couldnt secure a fuckin rebound

But Chip knows we lose because Randle had no legs on his last J (funny how he was still plenty able to drain 2 late free throws and to get to his spot at the final horn)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 06, 2021, 02:12:06 PM
Kid knows basketball the way a camel knows deep sea diving.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on April 06, 2021, 04:04:45 PM
It's not the missed shot. It's been obvious for awhile that Randall is often not playing well at the end of games.

If we can see it, Thibs should see it.

The Knicks seem hurt at the end of games by the absence of a consistently strong and aggressive point guard. During the game, I've got no issues with moving from Rose to Peyton to IQ. But at the end that doesn't cut it. You need your badass playmaker on the floor.

BTW, Barrett was hot in the 4th quarter, making a few buckets in a row, but never got another shot off in the last few minutes. Give his recent miss at the end, I was hoping he would get a go at it. Meanwhile, hasn't Burks proved that he's deserving of his number getting called for a final play? I think so.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on April 06, 2021, 04:08:55 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on April 06, 2021, 01:36:25 PM
I like Obi but Thibs sees the game.  Cant just have Toppin out there and leak points

1st quarter - up ten.  Obi in, moves to up 4

4th quarter - tied.  Obi in - moves to down 4

Casue and effect there?  I dont know - but Thibs seemed to feel it

Skeptical about your argument here. Didn't we just see a game where Obi was playing unusually well on all fronts, but he was yanked nonetheless? And then he didn't even get back in after that? Think I'm remembering correctly, not sure.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 06, 2021, 06:15:15 PM
Thats fine

The game you mention ....

Randle has been playing entire first and third quarters.  Was no different that game, extending Knicks lead from 3 points to 10.  I guess you could have had Julius sit the entire quarter but that would have been a bit radical.  (AS we know opponent went on 15-2 run to end the half)

Toppin scored 9 points in second quarter

 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 06, 2021, 06:15:44 PM
Entire first quarters.  That is the issue.  But I have often wondered why teams do NOT do this.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on April 06, 2021, 06:16:14 PM
Yep, we most certainly did, Elephant,  we went up big when he was in and went back down as soon as he came out...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 06, 2021, 06:23:55 PM
It was pretty clear after Randle blocked LMA that he was spent.
Hell, one reason I liked the challenge was to give Julius a breather.

A couple plays later, Randle secured a board and dribbled up court, crossed half court and passed to RJB.  Then Randle stayed near halfcourt looking like he might collapse, with maybe his thigh bothering him too.  That possession was a last 2 minute touch for RJB who passed to Noel who was fouled at the basket and proceeded to miss a pair of FT's down 5.

Randle was obviously tired and missed his last 2 shots.  Childish to call the buzzer beater a choke.  It was simply a missed shot.

But of course when a player is tired and muscles fatigued the chances of making the shot diminish.  Balance, elevation, concentration and more can all be negatively affected.  The overuse not only harms Julius' effectiveness late in games but increases the risk of injury.

Playign Randle 31 mins in a huge blowout on the 2nd game of a B2B was just plain stupid.  You can justify big minutes in a close game, but I'd rather have Randle fresh for the 4Q.  Mr. Thibs notorious for running his starters into the ground.

At this point, I'd also like to see Randle rested and ready for the playoffs/playins.
It'd be good for the young pups to get playoff experience,  Good for the team as a group as well.  And Randle hasn't faced playoff hoops as the main man, so good learning experience for him too.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 06, 2021, 08:25:29 PM
Nice seeing Flynn, Pritchard and Lewis give more of a benefit to their respective teams second half.  GO, PG BRIGADE!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on April 07, 2021, 12:16:45 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 06, 2021, 06:23:55 PM
It was pretty clear after Randle blocked LMA that he was spent.
Hell, one reason I liked the challenge was to give Julius a breather.

A couple plays later, Randle secured a board and dribbled up court, crossed half court and passed to RJB.  Then Randle stayed near halfcourt looking like he might collapse, with maybe his thigh bothering him too.  That possession was a last 2 minute touch for RJB who passed to Noel who was fouled at the basket and proceeded to miss a pair of FT's down 5.

Randle was obviously tired and missed his last 2 shots.  Childish to call the buzzer beater a choke.  It was simply a missed shot.

But of course when a player is tired and muscles fatigued the chances of making the shot diminish.  Balance, elevation, concentration and more can all be negatively affected.  The overuse not only harms Julius' effectiveness late in games but increases the risk of injury.

Playign Randle 31 mins in a huge blowout on the 2nd game of a B2B was just plain stupid.  You can justify big minutes in a close game, but I'd rather have Randle fresh for the 4Q.  Mr. Thibs notorious for running his starters into the ground.

At this point, I'd also like to see Randle rested and ready for the playoffs/playins.
It'd be good for the young pups to get playoff experience,  Good for the team as a group as well.  And Randle hasn't faced playoff hoops as the main man, so good learning experience for him too.
I don't believe Randle has faced playoff hoops as second banana either.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 07, 2021, 03:19:36 AM
Kevin Pelton's 2020 draft analysis from Nov 2020. (https://www.espn.in/nba/insider/story/_/id/29335461/2020-nba-draft-projections-ranking-top-30-prospects)
He has ObiT out of the the 1st round on his projections. 
And apparently has ObiT as his 81st player based on his stat projections(!)

He had LaMelo #1, tyH #2, Cole nathony 3, Vassel #4; RJ Hampton #5; Isaih Joe #6

He quite likes small PG's Cole Ant, Moloch FLynn, Cassius Winston (where he talks about the historic value of little PG's who can shoot).  All in his Top 10!
He had Quickly at 64

Some guy with the brilliant name Trevelin Queen 7; Jah'mius Ramsey #11.

For Pelton this was really a G draft.
Pelton wasn't much interested with the Bigs aside from Okongwu.
He rated Xavier Tillman 19, way ahead of ObiT, Precious, McDaniels.

Interesting to see a different idiosyncratic take.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 07, 2021, 04:20:01 AM
I think Obi is coming around and can carve a role for himself with work.

If we did miss w the pick, it should have been Bey.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 07, 2021, 06:03:25 AM
Knix were fortunate that a number of players dropped and we had a choice of TyH, ObiT and Deni, among others.  We went the conservative route taking the older player, after the Franc and Knox high-risk picks (yes, different management).

I still think ObiT was an odd pick considering Thibs prefers defenders, we had a starting PF in Randle and other positions of need, and Thibs likes to play his starters big minutes.  I wouldn't have been drafting a backup at #8.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 07, 2021, 10:58:39 AM
Didnt Charlotte have a Point guard?  Why would they draft LaMelo Ball?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 07, 2021, 11:27:47 AM
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2020-nba-draft-grade-knicks-select-obi-toppin-with-no-8-overall-pick/

Toppin is going to be an excellent pick-and-roll finisher even as a rookie thanks to his elite leaping ability and craft near the basket. That alone makes him a valuable offensive player. His chance at stardom relies on the rest of his promising offensive game. Toppin made 39 percent of his 3-pointers last season at Dayton. He handles the ball well for a big man, and while his size could be a limitation in the post against centers, he should thrive against mismatches off of switches. He's drawn comparisons to Amar'e Stoude
mire for a reason. Toppin has a chance to be the very best offensive player in this class.

He'll have to be in order to make up for his defensive shortcomings, though. Toppin is too small to play center and not nearly quick enough to function as a modern power forward on defense. He doesn't move well laterally, he's often in the wrong place schematically and is a fairly underwhelming rebounder. Toppin's future relies on finding a way to at least play average defense. With his offensive upside, that's all he needs.

That is especially true now that he'll be paired with Mitchell Robinson, one of the best young defensive big men in basketball. A decade ago, the Knicks added Stoudemire in free agency and kicked off the best stretch of basketball this franchise has seen this century. Now, in Toppin, they've found a similar talent. The Knicks may have plenty of power forwards on their roster, but Toppin should own the position for them moving forward.


NBA Draft grade: A+ 

The Knicks obviously need a lot, but that fan base will love this guy. They desperately want something to be excited about. Toppin can be that. I would not have taken him first overall, but he should not have dropped this far and should be the favorite for rookie of the year.  -- Gary Parrish
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 07, 2021, 11:29:00 AM
To upgrade.  To get a franchise player.
Who was CHA's headline PG? 
Rozier, a scoring G who averages 3.4 assists?
DeVonte Graham, an SG in a PG body?

Nobody billed ObiT as a potential franchise player.
The other problem is both Randle and ObiT are single position players.
I doubt they've shared the court for more than a few minutes here and there.
There's also a world of difference between PF and PG in today's NBA.

Can't you come up with better dumb questions?

It must be tough living in a context-free world.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 07, 2021, 11:36:11 AM
Yes

It was Graham

Clearly they needed a power forward more.

But of course teams dont always draft positionally - which is the point I am making to counter what you said about Randle/Toppin.

Isnt there still a scenario where given Julius's demands on a new contract Knicks deal him for decent value and go with Toppin as the starter?

If not, can we use Toppin 25+ minutes off the bench or is there not that many minutes even if he is playing well offensively and unwoeful defensively?

If not, part 2 - could we still deal Toppin for pretty good value?

You might envision Knicks as an emerging force if we had just selected (your second choice) Hali, given a newly minted Randle (which you didnt foresee).  But that is surely no given either. 

Toppin still has a high offensive ceiling and will very likely be a ten year NBA player getting minutes, minimally.  Its nonsense to shit on the pick.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 07, 2021, 12:03:21 PM
There's also a world of difference between PF and PG in today's NBA.
A franchise PG is gold.  (I was willing to trade Mitch and #8 for LaMelo)

Otherwise CHA drafted PJ Washington #12 in 2019, and he's reasonably solid and developing PF.  They needed a PG and C.

I was down on the ObiT pick months before we made it.
We haven't really seen what ObiT can do.  But in many ways that was baked into the pick with Thibs preference for vet-heavy minutes, Randle's status as our best player, neither having positional versatility, ObiT's defensive weakness, etc.

I assume Knix brass deemed ObiT the BPA and would figure it out later.
With so many other needs and other intriguing players dropping, it was a questionable pick.

Maybe we'll get to see what ObiT can do when Randle finally breaks down from Thibs abuse ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 07, 2021, 01:39:26 PM
With so many other needs and other intriguing players dropping, it was a questionable pick.


It really wasn't

And don't forget - they interview these guys as well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 07, 2021, 01:40:31 PM
Maybe we'll get to see what ObiT can do when Randle finally breaks down from Thibs abuse ...


If you dont already see what he can do you aren't watching closely enough.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 07, 2021, 06:07:10 PM
So far ObiT is a guy who can work the baseline pretty effectively, both driving and cutting.  Otherwise he can make 30% of his 3's, is a willing ball-over, and fouls.  His rebounding seems okay, and he's good at saving balls that about to go over the endline.  That's what I've seen.  Have we even seen ObiT in a PnR all season? 
I know specifics aren't your forte.

ObiT might have reasonable trade value in a package deal, but usually it's a red flag when a team is wiling to move a lottery pick in his first few years.  While ObiT is already 23 with minimal rookie year experience, so it's not like teams will bank on youth and great development to come.   Not saying that's true as plenty of players improve greatly later in their 20's, but the allure of yute is strong in the NBA and teams can project a 19 year old Kevin Knox becoming a Terry Cummings. 
[meanwhile, Mikal Bridges has become a significant 3&D wing swiss army knife player, guarding 1-4 and making hustle plays while popping 3's (53/41/82 shooting splits); Miles Bridges has become a solid workhorse who has really upped his efficiency in a lesser offensive role (49/38-88) and starting now that Hayward is encrippled; Porterhouse Jr. is a lights out 6'10" shooter and solid boarder who plays chumpy D; Shai a PG magician; Knox a lump of clay with confidence issues, poor D and some 3-ball promise]
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 07, 2021, 06:09:30 PM
Saw 2nd half of BOS-PHI.
Celts look uninspired, low-energy.
PHI has a large active defense and that bothered the Celts alot.  Plenty of shots late in the clock.  Knix have a similar D and should follow that blueprint.  In the 4Q, BOS tried a zone against the iffy shooting '6ers, but it didn't work as PHI spaced the court and made long effective passes.  BOS turned the ball over and lost the ball a lot when PHI packed the paint. 

Bos had a lot of trouble with Embiid, with Robert Will fouling out in short minutes, Taco Fall guy not a deterrent.  Hell, Luke Kornet looked about the best, at least stretching the floor on O (though he passed up some open looks).  BOS announcers call Kornet the Green Hornet.  I've always liked Kornet, skilled, some toughness. 

Celtics just didn't look coherent or enthused on either end.  Kemba will sit out the NYK game as the tail end of a B2B.  BOS announcers were wondering if Celts should have sat Kemba the 1st game and played him v. the lesser Knix, hoping to get one win instead of possibly losing a pair.  Celts without much time to turn the season around.

Knix should try to pounce early on and demoralize BOS.
1Q go back to the 3 R's: Randle, Reggie and RJB.
Should be winnable with Kemba out and BOS in disarray.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 07, 2021, 06:12:19 PM
I dont think we are dealing Toppin unless we get bowled over by an offer.  I think his value in deal is quite high right now.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 07, 2021, 06:25:05 PM
Of the 51 players from the 2018 draft who have appeared in at least 12 games, Knox is 47th in FG% (an ugly 37% career FG).
Mitch is 2nd best at 70.5FG.

Trivia Q: Who is the only 2018 draftee with a higher career FG% than Mitch.


Other thoughts:
DET going in for a major rebuild and trying to hunt up young talent let slip away Bruce Brown, killing it for BKY, and Christian Wood, who had a breakout year for DET and was a relatively cheap FA re-sign.  Yeesh.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 07, 2021, 06:40:24 PM
Went over that already

Wood was leaving, period.  And his dollars were used for Grant

I like what they are doing

So, we went the other way, keeping Knox and Frank.  Does that now appear wise?
Title: Basketball-Reference
Post by: carlos123 on April 07, 2021, 08:09:30 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 07, 2021, 06:25:05 PM
Of the 51 players from the 2018 draft who have appeared in at least 12 games, Knox is 47th in FG% (an ugly 37% career FG).
Mitch is 2nd best at 70.5FG.

Trivia Q: Who is the only 2018 draftee with a higher career FG% than Mitch.


https://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2018.html (https://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2018.html)

Round 1      Totals   Shooting   Per Game   Advanced
Rk   Pk   Tm   Player               College          Yrs      G     MP    PTS   TRB   AST    FG% 3P%    FT%    MP  PTS TRB   AST   WS   WS/48     BPM   VORP
27   27   BOS   Robert Williams   Texas A&M    3   104   1458   579   504   107   .727   .000   .646   14.0   5.6   4.8   1.0   7.8   .256           5.4   2.7
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 07, 2021, 09:44:55 PM
OBVIOUS goaltend on the Rose floater.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 07, 2021, 09:53:10 PM
Randle had Smart on him and he passes up the shot?? That turns into RJ fumbling the possession.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 07, 2021, 10:05:19 PM
That was an odd ass game. As one who wants the bottom half of the play in for us, I’m ok with it on a strategic level, but that hurt to go through. Nice moments though. It’s getting to a pressure laden slice of the schedule. We need to figure out how we’re going to hold up and get consistent shot making if we want to break through.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 07, 2021, 10:12:13 PM
Either Rose or Burks needs to start over Payton or Bullock. It moves one fully functional NBA perimeter scorer into the starting lineup for a slightly better defender who is missing key things from his bag on the other end.

I don’t have strong feelings about which one it aught to be.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 07, 2021, 10:23:55 PM
Knicks got John Henson?  When did this happen?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 08, 2021, 12:56:58 AM
It’s a ten day. About two days after Pelle signed.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 08, 2021, 04:55:20 AM
You'd think it would only take a few seconds to look it up and inform us of the situation and timing.
Instead of presenting it as a mystery.
But that's kiid, consistently allergic to specifics and common courtesy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 08, 2021, 05:11:07 AM
Henson was always a strong rebounder and good shotblocker.
He had a serious wrist injury a couple years ago which restricted him the last year in MIL and then assorted back and hamstring issues during his CLE stint.
Has played in just 54 games in the last 3 seasons.
Skinny and not really strong enough to play C, except against smallballing teams or for brief stints.  Not much on offense aside from putbacks.  And just a career 57% FT shooter.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 08, 2021, 05:24:47 AM
Berman thinks Knix will low-ball Mitch (https://nypost.com/2021/03/30/mitchell-robinsons-contract-saga-with-knicks-now-seems-clear-cut/).
As in keep him on his cheap-o $1.8M contract and try to extend him for between 3/$30M - 3/$36M.  Pre-injury, I assumed Mitch would be looking for $14M - $18M per.

Feel bad for Mitch; in NBA terms he's been under involuntary servitude.
The timing of this injury is awful for him, as he was having a fine season and this reduces his leverage.  While Noel has filled in and basically replicated what Mitch provides, further undermining Mitch's bargaining power.  I understand the salary cap places limitations and such, but this season we are paying Noah more than Mitch has made total in his 3-year NBA career.  Hell, Clyde makes $5M per year in Dolanbucks, nearly as much as Mitch's $5.4M over three years.

Mitch has apparently changed agents a few times.  Unsurprisingly unhappy with his original 2nd round contract, which was long and low, keeping him perennially underpaid.  Guaranteed money is great when you are just trying to make the NBA, but he's been seriously underpaid the past two years, and we can pick up the team option and have him earn a minimum type salary once again. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 08, 2021, 06:20:08 AM
I found this interesting.  One key player who might leave via FA/trade per team.
Every NBA Team's Biggest Flight Risk This Offseason (https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2939222-every-nba-teams-biggest-flight-risk-this-offseason)

They think Bullox will attract suitors.  Maybe but I was thinking Burks as teams often focus more on offense.  And I think Thibs values Bullocks.
Assuming one of Burks/Bullox leaves, would Knix have interest in Josh Rich or Sterling Brown?
  Should Knix throw a lot of FA money at Lonzo Ball?  Duncan Robinson?  Norm Powell?
Or acquire a 3&D wing in a lower price bracket: Torey Craig, Malik Beasley, Otto Porter?

Quote
Richardson's skill set is more variable. He isn't the pure shooter Hardaway has developed into, but his effectiveness also isn't as predicated on finding the basket. He can feasibly guard 1 through 4 and is rather easily the Mavericks' best point-of-attack defender.

Peak Richardson has yet to make an appearance for the Mavs on offense, but he is trending in the right direction. He's converting over 40 percent of his threes and averaging 3.3 assists per game since the All-Star break. Coaxing more shot volume out of him can be like pulling teeth, but he's more equipped for facilitating out of the pick-and-roll than Hardaway and always hints at just enough off-the-bounce miscellany to float the prospect of a higher ceiling.

That's the issue with Josh, he defends and has an intriguing offensive game, but he keeps it leased up too often.  When DAL made the big 2nd half push to beat NYK last week, suddenly Josh Rich drove and swooped in a long-armed scoop shot like he was Dr. J.  Sometimes just looks smooth and capable, but just in flashes offensively.  And while I like his D, I don't think it's as good as advertised.
Still a nice player with two-way talent.  Could replace RegBull or start with Bullox off the bench.

I haven't seen Sterling Silver in quite a while.  So not sure how well he fits or how much he's worth.  But an interesting player.

Further details on Bogdanovic almost to MIL:
The Bucks forfeited  their 2022 second-rounder as punishment for what the league deemed impermissible contact with Bogdanovic before free agency began in November.

Quote
Not long after Milwaukee reached an agreement with New Orleans on a trade for Jrue Holiday in November, ESPN reported that the Bucks would also acquire Bogdanovic, who was a restricted free agent, from Sacramento via sign-and-trade, with the Kings poised to land Donte DiVincenzo as part of the exchange.

But free agency was still more than three days away at that point, prompting the N.B.A. to investigate how the Bucks had agreed on terms. Milwaukee was essentially forced to abandon its pursuit of Bogdanovic or risk more severe penalties.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 08, 2021, 06:23:54 AM
Knix up to 7th best 3PT shooting at 38%.
But NYK takes the 2nd fewest 3's per game (only CLE takes less)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jerrya on April 08, 2021, 08:49:47 AM
On balance JR hurting the team.  Too many turnovers, forcing shots, and average defense.  Can't understand why he's pressing...he already made All stare...maybe he's pressing for MVP.  ;-)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 08, 2021, 12:36:54 PM
My read is Julius is mentally and physically worn down. 
And then falls back on old (bad) habits.  Interesting that BOS has Jaylen guarding Randle, and Knix stick with that matchup on the other end.   Very early 1Q, on a switch Robt Williams blocks Randle's iso-J.  Impressive.  3 mins in Julius opts to help, is under the rim, when Jaylen gets the ball for a 3 with no Knick within 20 feet.  Er.  Even worse, Randle stands there instead of boxing out and BOS gets the weakside board.  Plus the early backcourt violation, partly Elf's fault, and Randle has 3+ poor plays in 3 minutes.

Randle entitled to an off-game now and then.  Long season.  Also entitled to fewer minutes.  RJB has really been shooting well last few games. 

Both teams sloppy and chaotic.
Celts killed NYK on the O-boards. 16-5 O-boards.
Always enjoy watching Marcus Smart carom around the court.

Randle did a good job of D on Tatum on two late posessions, but Bullock decided to unnecessarily double team, but from the next man over, so Tatum passed the ball to Smart before Bullox got halfway to Tatum.   A strange costly decision from Bullox.   I presume Knix wanted to double Tatum and get the ball out of his hands late, and Tatum had been turning the ball over under pressure, but that was just the wrong time/approach.

Ugly game.  Knix were there.  Both teams need a genuine PG running their offenses.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on April 08, 2021, 12:43:50 PM
Quote from: Jerrya on April 08, 2021, 08:49:47 AM
On balance JR hurting the team.  Too many turnovers, forcing shots, and average defense.  Can't understand why he's pressing...he already made All stare...maybe he's pressing for MVP.  ;-)

What?

We're a lottery team without him. 

Pressing?

Gassed. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 08, 2021, 01:01:31 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 08, 2021, 05:24:47 AM
Berman thinks Knix will low-ball Mitch (https://nypost.com/2021/03/30/mitchell-robinsons-contract-saga-with-knicks-now-seems-clear-cut/).
As in keep him on his cheap-o $1.8M contract and try to extend him for between 3/$30M - 3/$36M.  Pre-injury, I assumed Mitch would be looking for $14M - $18M per.

Feel bad for Mitch; in NBA terms he's been under involuntary servitude.
The timing of this injury is awful for him, as he was having a fine season and this reduces his leverage.  While Noel has filled in and basically replicated what Mitch provides, further undermining Mitch's bargaining power.  I understand the salary cap places limitations and such, but this season we are paying Noah more than Mitch has made total in his 3-year NBA career.  Hell, Clyde makes $5M per year in Dolanbucks, nearly as much as Mitch's $5.4M over three years.

Mitch has apparently changed agents a few times.  Unsurprisingly unhappy with his original 2nd round contract, which was long and low, keeping him perennially underpaid.  Guaranteed money is great when you are just trying to make the NBA, but he's been seriously underpaid the past two years, and we can pick up the team option and have him earn a minimum type salary once again.

Brittle Mitch should take 3/30 and run
Title: Perspective
Post by: chipstern on April 08, 2021, 02:06:37 PM
Hurting the team. 

We lost to the Celtics by a single basket, well, okay, a single basket if counting RJ's last second heat check trey.  Close loss to the Nyets as well. 

Clearly our team's margin for error is VERY SMALL. 

So are we assessing JR as a negative based on 9-23, and 2-6 from trey. 

KNICKS FANS are some spoiled MFs. 

Julius finished with 22 points, 9 rebounds, 6 assists, 3 steals and 1 block.  Yes, he had 3 turnovers.  So did Payton and RJ.  Jayson Tatum had EIGHT TURNOVERS, for fuck's sake--is Tatum [25-10-5-1...gee whiz, that looks a lot like JR's stat line] hurting his team? Smart and Brown had 2 each.  When you make plays, you draw attention. 

Here's an interesting stat line from the box score. 

The starters' +/- was a cumulative negative. 

The bench [Gibson, Toppin, Burks, Quickley, Rose]?  Their +/- was on the positive side of the ledger, Obi and IQ getting 11 and 13 minutes each. 

PS: Interesting contrasting the statistical SG battle between Jaylen and RJ',  the final +/- with Brown's +7 versus Barrett's -9 based on Brown's 12-26/5-13 versus RJ's 10-14/6-6.  Based on the manner in which Jaylen has elevated his game season by season, RJ is right on schedule. 

PPS: We are now at 25-27 in the competitive EC Playoff scrum behind the Nyets, Sexers and Schmucks

4 Charlotte Hornets [26-24]
5 Atlanta Hawks [27-25]
6 Miami Heat [26-25]
7 Boston Celtics [26-26]
8 New York Knicks [25-27]
9 Indiana Pacers [23-27]
10 Chicago Bulls [21-28]
11 Toronto Raptors [20-31]

Question, anyone, as per BoD's prenatal/post-mortem, time to reflect on free agency and the draft ruminations: In the new extended playoff format, do teams that fall out of the Top 8 still qualify as Lottery Teams for the ping pong ball extravaganza, vis a vis the possibility of having our cake and eating it too? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 08, 2021, 02:11:11 PM
Yes.  Fall out of 8th and you're a lottery team.
Title: Appreciation
Post by: Kam on April 08, 2021, 02:12:21 PM
Want something to be excited about?  The ascending RJ BARRETT.  The man has made great strides in his second season.
Title: Miex Emotions
Post by: chipstern on April 08, 2021, 02:23:26 PM
Quote from: Kam on April 08, 2021, 02:11:11 PM
Yes.  Fall out of 8th and you're a lottery team.

Thanks. 

Mixed emotions. 

Watching your mother in law going over the side of a cliff in your new Mercedes. 

Be interesting to see how Thibs responds to the home stretch.  We've already seen Frank and Kevin nailed to the pine, and now not just Obi, but IQ's minutes on a much much shorter leash. 

It would seem that the only Puppy Thibs completely trusts is RJ.  His ascent has been really inspiring. 

And his evolution is a testament to his character and work ethic, but the Knicks support system.  Watching RJ go 6-6 from trey last night was startling. 
Title: Poor Butterfly
Post by: chipstern on April 08, 2021, 02:27:03 PM
Kyle Neubeck: Can confirm the Sixers are waiving Iggy Brazdeikis. I don’t *think* a follow up is necessarily imminent but would posit an educated guess something goes down within days/next week or so – via Twitter KyleNeubeck
Title: Re: Appreciation
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 08, 2021, 02:59:41 PM
Quote from: Kam on April 08, 2021, 02:12:21 PM
Want something to be excited about?  The ascending RJ BARRETT.  The man has made great strides in his second season.

Expected strides

I think what we like most is that after looking very poor from 3 pt range early this season (when I said he appeared to be moving his eyes up while he shot), RJ has righted that ship

Without the 3 ball his worth does dwindle.

Through 23 game -     ,271 from 3 pt land

Since then -       29 games     .471
Title: Re: Miex Emotions
Post by: Kam on April 08, 2021, 05:48:58 PM
Quote from: chipstern on April 08, 2021, 02:23:26 PM
Quote from: Kam on April 08, 2021, 02:11:11 PM
Yes.  Fall out of 8th and you're a lottery team.

Thanks. 

Mixed emotions. 

Watching your mother in law going over the side of a cliff in your new Mercedes. 



More like eating your cake and having it too. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on April 08, 2021, 08:27:29 PM
Every game is important.

The idea that we'll probably make the playoffs even if we don't rise above mediocrity is not quite true.

At the end of the season, the 9th seed will play the 10th. Loser's season is over. Winner then plays a single game against the winner of the #7 vs #8. Loser's season is over.

In short, two of those final four teams will be getting only a brief taste of playoff experience. It's over in a flash. If that happens to the Knicks, there will be no moral victories. It won't feel like they were in the playoffs at all.

Is it too absurd to hope to see a Knicks playoff series again? For fuck's sake, the 4-6 spot is there for the taking. Save for Mitch, we're relatively healthy. They've got to figure it out before they flounder themselves out of the running.
Title: Re: Mixed Emotions on Thibs
Post by: carlos123 on April 08, 2021, 09:44:38 PM
Quote from: chipstern on April 08, 2021, 02:23:26 PM
Quote from: Kam on April 08, 2021, 02:11:11 PM
Yes.  Fall out of 8th and you're a lottery team.

Thanks. 

Mixed emotions. 

Watching your mother in law going over the side of a cliff in your new Mercedes. 

Be interesting to see how Thibs responds to the home stretch.  We've already seen Frank and Kevin nailed to the pine, and now not just Obi, but IQ's minutes on a much much shorter leash. 

It would seem that the only Puppy Thibs completely trusts is RJ.  His ascent has been really inspiring. 

And his evolution is a testament to his character and work ethic, but the Knicks support system.  Watching RJ go 6-6 from trey last night was startling.

Problem with Thibs approach is that he runs his guys, especially his main guy, into the ground.

He needs to stop playing King Julius 39 minutes a game, bad for his health and bad for the team.

He needs to learn to trust his puppies with more minutes, or else they will never develop and all the starters are gassed.

Obi has to play way more than 9 minutes a game, same as IQ.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 08, 2021, 10:03:47 PM
Obi is starting to look up for it. Give him his run by all means.

I’ll still take the lotto pick and crack at a series than no lotto and a better crack at one. 1-6 or 9-10. Skip 7 & 8 which provides the worst of both worlds.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 08, 2021, 11:05:31 PM
Knix have been losing close games.  But have been very lucky with matchups.

We got BKY without Harden and Durant (he returned the next game).
BOS without Kemba on 2nd game of a B2B.
PHI without EMbiid.
We beat MIL without Giannis, Jrue, Middleton.

That's a real run of unexpected luck.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 08, 2021, 11:11:47 PM
Is it too absurd to hope to see a Knicks playoff series again? For fuck's sake, the 4-6 spot is there for the taking. Save for Mitch, we're relatively healthy. They've got to figure it out before they flounder themselves out of the running.


Sounds like you'd prefer we had made a deal

I concur.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 08, 2021, 11:53:53 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 08, 2021, 11:05:31 PM
Knix have been losing close games.  But have been very lucky with matchups.

We got BKY without Harden and Durant (he returned the next game).
BOS without Kemba on 2nd game of a B2B.
PHI without EMbiid.
We beat MIL without Giannis, Jrue, Middleton.

That's a real run of unexpected luck.

We did a lot of that without our starting center and our only legit PG, Rose, is just no w working himself back into shape.

Is Boston really any better with Kemba on the floor this year? Less luck by us in this case than bad planning by Ainge.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 09, 2021, 12:00:36 AM
Knix have played most of their games with the same starters.
We've had way more stability than most teams this year.  Minimal lineup variation.

Mitch the only significant injury and Noel has filled in for Mitch almost perfectly.
With Nerlins and Taj we haven't missed Mitch.
Rose is our mid-season acquisition backup PG.

Yes, BOS is better with Kemba.  Very helpful when Knix have the PG advantage.
And it was a B2B for them as well (which is why Kemboy sat). 

Knix play 9 of the next 11 at Home.
Might get Lakes without A Davis and LeBJ.
The only other really tough game is @ DAL.
Time for a run ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 09, 2021, 12:32:58 AM
KZ 27 & 17 w/ 2 blocks in a W v. MIL.

Then again, Portis with 20 & 14 for MIL.
Portishead 54% FG / 48% on 3's this year for a PER of 23.  7 boards too.
I doubt he's stopping anyone, but Wow.
4th best 3Pt FG%.
Surprisingly Snell is 1st at 57% (on low volume)
Joe Ingles canning 50%

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 09, 2021, 01:25:29 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 09, 2021, 12:00:36 AM
Knix have played most of their games with the same starters.
We've had way more stability than most teams this year.  Minimal lineup variation.

Mitch the only significant injury and Noel has filled in for Mitch almost perfectly.
With Nerlins and Taj we haven't missed Mitch.
Rose is our mid-season acquisition backup PG.

Yes, BOS is better with Kemba.  Very helpful when Knix have the PG advantage.
And it was a B2B for them as well (which is why Kemboy sat). 

Knix play 9 of the next 11 at Home.
Might get Lakes without A Davis and LeBJ.
The only other really tough game is @ DAL.
Time for a run ...

I would love to get on the court w you some day. It’s clear we both enjoy, pay attention to, and understand the game, but we see it very differently.

Young or prime Taj could sufficiently replace Mitch. Noel does not despite his defensive prodigiousness. What he can’t do in terms of catching the ball or holding his ground too often give up more than his offense and defense garner. He’s a great fit as first defensive big off the bench. In fact, Noel, Taj, and Obi make a solid frontcourt bench especially with Pelle there to act as bouncer. I’d bring the four of them back and not feel bad if they were the reserves. 

What healthy Mitch did in terms of catch, pass, move, board, and occupy bodies and attention is easy to underrate. Have opponent offensive rebounds been a factor in any of our recent games?

Payton has developed into Marcus Smart 3 years ago which is not as good as the Marcus Smart of today. Rose isn’t ready, so it’s a cross we have to bear. Once Rose is ready, even if Elf starts Derrick will see most of the time on the floor. A PG has to above all bend defenses and get the ball moving so the right guys get shots in the right spots. Payton has been more prone to constipate things this year which has a lot to do with why Randle is so worn down.

My hope is we’re saving Burks and Prepping Rose so they peak in time for our run through the play in and into the second round of the playoffs. Randle, RJ and those two are the ones I most trust to ball in the face of pressure enough to make decent shots possible.

Anyway, the home stand should give us some chance to get organized again after this recent tough stretch. It would be nice to stop the bleeding sooner rather than later.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 09, 2021, 03:06:22 AM
Payton is not playing as well as Smart was three years ago. If he was, we’d be in far better shape.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 09, 2021, 03:30:02 PM
Couple of articles for a Friday:


https://sports.yahoo.com/why-does-tom-thibodeau-start-151904317.html

https://sports.yahoo.com/knicks-fix-offensive-struggles-against-150452743.html
Title: Thibs is reading!
Post by: carlos123 on April 09, 2021, 10:31:40 PM
Thibs is seeing this forum!
Obi 15 minutes and IQ 31.
Keep it up, coach!
You still need to give a few more minutes to Obi and a few less to King Julius.

But, like Chip would say... PROGRESS!  😜
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 10, 2021, 04:37:39 AM
Kids did nice today. Their good play kept them on the floor in ways that helped us. Kudos to Thibs for setting standards from the jump.

Big 4 all came to play and carried us through - barely
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 10, 2021, 06:01:52 AM
Randle with a poor start and Knix a feeble 1Q without his leadership.
Tilman looked solid, but missed all 3 of his FT's.
Clyde had lots of praise for Dillon Brooks.  Listed at 6'7" … I thought he was around 6'4"
and more of an SG.  Guess I haven't been keeping up with Memf much.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 10, 2021, 12:56:36 PM
Memphis is fun. Not Denver fun, but quite fun in their own right.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 10, 2021, 03:30:44 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 09, 2021, 12:00:36 AM

Mitch the only significant injury and Noel has filled in for Mitch almost perfectly.
With Nerlins and Taj we haven't missed Mitch.


Maybe on defense. But Mitch is much better than either offensively.  You need to re-consider.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 10, 2021, 03:34:36 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 10, 2021, 06:01:52 AM

Tilman looked solid, but missed all 3 of his FT's.


Tillman Sr.   
It's very important we know that he named his kid after himself.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 10, 2021, 06:43:21 PM
Better than getting one of those creepy throat tattoos of his kid, so there's this weird infant image popping out of your shirt on your neck ...

Mitch can be pretty up and down in scoring, boarding, fouling.  I think Nawlins is starting to get a little worn down.  And his hands arent as good as Mitch's mitts.  But the main thing is Knix didn't have to adjust their schemes or coverage on D.  Noel fits right in to Mitch's role. 

Knix really stole a game they should have lost.
Heroes abound, but RJB was hugely clutch and supremely confident.
That was really something to see.  With Julius not sharp, the G's really came through.  Also, Taj did some heroic boardwork.

Odd play.  About 1:10 left in reg, NYK up 3, Morant gets a switch with Randle guarding him.  Julius has 5 fouls and looked gassed when he blocked a Morant drive but got called for a foul just prior.  Morant takes one non-threatening dribble and passes off to Brooks.  Why didn't Morant drive on Randle, force him to yield or potentially foul out.  Fouling out a team's leader is usually considered a good move.  So is attacking a key player with 5 fouls.  So is attacking a mismatch.  Thought that was very much to the Knix advantage.

Memf sure relied on Dillon Brooks jacking 3's in crunch time.  He's making just 34% this year.  Looks like their best 3Pt shooters are mostly pups.  Bane, Grayson, Melt-on.  Kyle made some bad plays late, especially an inbounds pass just sailing through his slo-mo hands.
He did manage to strip RJB on a fast break, but on O he was a disaster.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 10, 2021, 07:20:54 PM
MemF nicely set at PG & C.
Brooks looks like a quality SF.
You can see why they drafted PF's Clarke and Tilman Sr.
And SG shooters in Bane & Grayson recently.
Bane looks promising.
Kyle Anderson better coming off the bench.
But since their two best players -- Ja & Jonas -- arent 3 point shooters, they really need a PF who can space the floor and knock down 3's.  Clarke not there yet.
Interesting team.
But by the time Clarke and Bane are ripe, Valanciunas might be on the fade.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 10, 2021, 09:58:04 PM
Kyle Anderson has become an excellent player at age 27

One more year left on 4-37
Title: Action Jackson
Post by: chipstern on April 10, 2021, 10:15:04 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 10, 2021, 07:20:54 PM
MemF nicely set at PG & C.
Brooks looks like a quality SF.
You can see why they drafted PF's Clarke and Tilman Sr.
And SG shooters in Bane & Grayson recently.
Bane looks promising.
Kyle Anderson better coming off the bench.
But since their two best players -- Ja & Jonas -- arent 3 point shooters, they really need a PF who can space the floor and knock down 3's.  Clarke not there yet.
Interesting team.
But by the time Clarke and Bane are ripe, Valanciunas might be on the fade.

You forgot all about JAREN JACKSON

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jacksja02.html (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jacksja02.html)

Center and Power Forward [6-11, 242lb]

A big athletic Stretch 4-5 who can shoot the three. 

Recovering from a knee injury, and might be back by the end of the month.

A significant talent.  Was drafted #4 out of Michigan State in 2018 in between Luka and Trae, the year we took Kevin.  The thought of him as a 5 on the Knicks makes me drool, long enough to recognize that this transcends reality as we know it.  Better I should fantasize about Thelma Todd. 

PS: Meanwhile, RJ is ONLY 20.  My God he has a set of stones on him.  No rear view mirror.  Not afraid to fail.  Wants the big shot at crunch time.  BoD likes to project forward.  RJ still getting stronger, and might even be getting taller.  He porojects as a 2-3 wing long term.  If we could get a long strong big wing span 2-3 & D wing in the draft, who could really defend and launch from trey, would give us more talent and depth at the 2 & 3.  PG?  Not convinced that Ball will be available.  We shall see. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 10, 2021, 10:17:25 PM
13 mil team option on Winslow
Title: Superman 30 rebounds
Post by: carlos123 on April 11, 2021, 01:10:24 AM
Enes KANTER!!!

30 rebounds to go with 2 assists, 2 blocks and 24 points on 9-16 shooting and 6-8 FT.

Wow!!!

Like I said before, they play much better with Enes than they do with Nurkic as starting C.

PS. Chamaco, say YES to All-Star game out of Georgia!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on April 11, 2021, 01:35:09 AM
That's awesome.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 11, 2021, 05:10:22 AM
You're right, Jaren Jax come on down.  Their Valancuinas replacement in training/hiding.  Knick announcers mentioned him; Clyde calling him a potential future all-star.

I doubt even Kyle Anderson's mom thinks he's an excellent player.  Fairly solid, useful.  A quality rotation backup.
Winslow was never worth $13M even before he started to break down.  Drop that and maybe re-sign him on a 1/$4M make good deal. 

Down the Road:
Morant - Des Bane - Brooks - Clarke - Jax
Ty Jones - Grayson - Kyle A - Tea 4 Tilman - Valanciunas
[Melton; Winslow]
That could be a real coherent team, with two nice units.

Impressive they are around .500 without Jax; while Clarke, Bane, Grayson are so young .. not to mention the precocious neophyte status of Ja Morant.

Looks like Memf has drafted well and restocked pretty quickly.
Getting Morant at #2 and Jaren Jax #4 obviously key.  But looks like their lower picks -- mostly trading for other teams draft picks: Bane, Clarke, etc. -- have been solid. 

Bane looks terrific, a Celts #30 pick.  Shot 43% on 3's in college.  45% in the NBofA on 3's.  7th in the League.
Title: Re: Superman 30 rebounds
Post by: bodiddley on April 11, 2021, 09:51:56 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on April 11, 2021, 01:10:24 AM
Enes KANTER!!!

30 rebounds to go with 2 assists, 2 blocks and 24 points on 9-16 shooting and 6-8 FT.

Wow!!!

well it was Turkish Heritage night in CLE, though Im not sure why.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 11, 2021, 09:56:52 AM
Randle's 10th assist:
passed to Burks who dribbled once to his left, then to his right, then took two steps left and fired off a 3.
That counts as an assist?
Title: Random Thoughts
Post by: chipstern on April 11, 2021, 01:06:59 PM
Happy for Enes.  Was always taken aback as to how Knicks fans, and fucking Fizdale, seemed to focus on his limitations rather than his attributes.  Enes has heart, and when he gets into his groove, an offensive rebounding/finishing around the rim beast.  And no, would not have reupped him for 20 million, but for Nerlens Noel money?  Portland might considerig him for a raise next season.  Think the Celtics might be having second thoughts? 

Oladipo.  Feel sorry for the brother, because before he got hurt, he was positioned to ascend among the elite guards as a scorer, playmaker, defender.  Odd career move turning down Houston's mega bucks extension.  Would seem that Riley's strategy going foward is sign him to a team friendly contract.  But it is an open question as to whether or not he will even play again this season. 

Interesting roll of the dice, one which I was violently opposed to when the geek choruses in the blogosphere were chanting for us to give up serious assets for his ending contract.  We have RJ.  We have Burks.  We have Quickley.  Who sits? 

For unpteenth time, we will be looking for point guards and 3&D SFs to make the next step team talent wise. 

Thibs appears to love Reggie.  He could be looking at some better offers than $4.2 Million come summer.  Not so sure what if anything our commitment to Kevin might be, let alone Payton and French Frank [whose qualifying offer for 2021-22 is $8.3 million].  Rose and Gibson at a team friendly contracts seem tenable given Thibs' commitment to them and vicea versa. 

But given our cap space and present status in the draft [17, 20, 32 (Detroit), 59 (Philly)], we have some interesting decisions to make, with 8 looming free agents, Julius' third year option and questions of a possible extension, the status of Frank's qualifying offer, assessment of Mitchell's health and possible extension, and judgements as to whether Knox, Harper and Pinson have a place in our plans moving forward. 

C: Robinson, Noels, Gibson
PF: Randle, Toppin
SF: Bullock, Knox
SG: Barrett, Burks, Pinson
PG: Payton, Rose, Quickley, Ntilikina, Harper

Our coming home stand is most def propitious.  I have noted Facil's half a prayer that we somehow finesse the neat trick of being both part of the playoff scrum AND the draft lottery.  We are currently sitting precipitously at the #8 spot, 26-27, 10 games back of Philly/Brookley, with Indiana, Chicago and Toronto in the under .500 contingent, while just above us are Boston, Miami, Atlanta and Charlotte at 7-6-5-4 respectively. 

We had best not sleep on Toronto, even withought those Knicks nemesis VanVleet and Lowry.  Rookie PG Malachi Flynn had a big game last night in a rout of the Cavs [20-2-11-2], SF Yuta Watanabe showed some cajones [6-7 FGs, 2-2 from trey] and young studmuffin Gary Trent, recently aquired from Portland for Norman Powell, went FUCKING BALLISTIC [17-19 FGs, 7-9 from trey], and he lit up the Knikcs earlier this season on the Blazers. 

The Raptors are a championship team, least ways they have muscle memory of such going back two years, a nice core of young pups, and are very PRIDEFUL. 

Gulp. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 11, 2021, 02:35:43 PM
I doubt even Kyle Anderson's mom thinks he's an excellent player.  Fairly solid, useful.  A quality rotation backup.


Anderson's a starter

You may be confused - he was a second teamer for the 60+ win Spurs
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 11, 2021, 02:39:48 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 11, 2021, 09:56:52 AM
Randle's 10th assist:
passed to Burks who dribbled once to his left, then to his right, then took two steps left and fired off a 3.
That counts as an assist?

no
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 11, 2021, 02:47:09 PM
C: Robinson, Noels, Gibson
PF: Randle, Toppin
SF: Bullock, Knox
SG: Barrett, Burks, Pinson
PG: Payton, Rose, Quickley, Ntilikina, Harper


Good Lord - cant even get that right
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 11, 2021, 04:30:01 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on April 11, 2021, 02:39:48 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 11, 2021, 09:56:52 AM
Randle's 10th assist:
passed to Burks who dribbled once to his left, then to his right, then took two steps left and fired off a 3.
That counts as an assist?

no

Thats exactly what occurred.  Clyde suggested, highly optimistically I thought, that that might be Randle's 10th assist.  Long pause and then Clyde confirmed Randle got his 10th assist on that play.  I watched it twice more in disbelief.

So, no what, schmo.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 11, 2021, 04:49:39 PM
And?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 11, 2021, 05:50:40 PM
Oh, okay, you meant it shouldnt count as an assist.

And?
And I agree with you.

Made me wonder what other dubious assists players get credited with.

Impressive that Clyde's Knick single season record of 8 triple-doubles has lasted over half a century (68/69 season).
And such a stat wasnt much noted back then, so players didnt hunt them out.  Or official scorers ...

Watching a BOS game last week, and Smart passed Larry Legend for 4th most made 3's by a Celt.  Shows how much the game has shifted outward since those early days of the 3-point line.   Pierce, Antoine Walker and Ray Allen were the Top 3.

I modeled my spin move on Ant Walker's (and Jamal Mashburn)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 11, 2021, 06:08:31 PM
Scorekeepers are still human and I don’t think they check tape or do any kind of review except to see that points to players can result from made shots of different types and that player scores amount to team scores. Assists and TOs are never quite accurate. But they are pretty good and with the volume of games tend to even out to relatively true stats. 
Title: Chamaco has many problems
Post by: carlos123 on April 11, 2021, 06:18:39 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on April 11, 2021, 02:47:09 PM
C: Robinson, Noels, Gibson
PF: Randle, Toppin
SF: Bullock, Knox
SG: Barrett, Burks, Pinson
PG: Payton, Rose, Quickley, Ntilikina, Harper


Good Lord - cant even get that right

Chamaco, you really have a problem with Chip, why is that?

And what's wrong with the lineup?

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3ckosSoTRHGXG4k-OCA2pVXfzewhXuzBYoGpsyMZVnzDq9ClI46oruQhbgSzQ9NiWcRnXh17QQU1T2E-x8FKtLT4EzHS0NTRyTH3a3D_76D71Q-i9VLGdWCOYKW1N7yNCrXtD_KYx0uYx_1P39yT7qh=w368-h570-no?authuser=0)
Title: 'Cause I Ams What I Ams
Post by: chipstern on April 11, 2021, 06:35:32 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on April 11, 2021, 06:18:39 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on April 11, 2021, 02:47:09 PM
C: Robinson, Noels, Gibson
PF: Randle, Toppin
SF: Bullock, Knox
SG: Barrett, Burks, Pinson
PG: Payton, Rose, Quickley, Ntilikina, Harper


Good Lord - cant even get that right

Chamaco, you really have a problem with Chip, why is that?

And what's wrong with the lineup?



(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3ckosSoTRHGXG4k-OCA2pVXfzewhXuzBYoGpsyMZVnzDq9ClI46oruQhbgSzQ9NiWcRnXh17QQU1T2E-x8FKtLT4EzHS0NTRyTH3a3D_76D71Q-i9VLGdWCOYKW1N7yNCrXtD_KYx0uYx_1P39yT7qh=w368-h570-no?authuser=0)

(https://media3.giphy.com/media/6o0ZptOS8wqpHAh0Yi/giphy.gif)

"I'll take Crypto Fascist White Trash Weenies with delusions of grandeur who are overcompensating for a deep seeded insecurity about their questionable masculinity and the slipping away of cracker barrell privilege by talking faux tough guy smack anonymously on a forum behind a coward's screen of empty bluster that were it uttered in a saloon on a Friday night after work would get him punched right in his piggly wiggly failure at everything in life farcical face so let me cop a Man Coulter pose 'cause I'm actually a repressed trannie for $500, Alex." 

(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/008/336/d24.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 11, 2021, 07:58:18 PM
Damn - Wiseman feared out for the year with meniscus tear
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on April 11, 2021, 08:57:39 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on April 11, 2021, 07:58:18 PM
Damn - Wiseman feared out for the year with meniscus tear

- Say no to All Star Game voting, viewing -

Chamaco, say YES to All Star Game out of Georgia ⚾️
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 11, 2021, 09:47:12 PM
Impressive that Clyde's Knick single season record of 8 triple-doubles has lasted over half a century (68/69 season).
And such a stat wasnt much noted back then, so players didnt hunt them out.  Or official scorers ...

I dont think Randle is hunting down anything but wins
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 11, 2021, 11:06:24 PM
Big back court, something I’ve wanted for a long long time, definitely came through tonight.

Good grindy win on a very ugly shooting night. Nice piece in a home stand.

We are 27-27 w 18 left to play. Crazy!

Also, Barrett might be coming along some...
Title: Your Portland Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on April 12, 2021, 12:43:08 AM
They lost tonight.

You know why?

They started Nurkic, that’s why.

Enes still managed 8 rebounds and 10 points on 5-5 shooting in 20 minutes, but he deserves more minutes.

Melo with a disastrous 0 point night.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 12, 2021, 03:30:18 PM
Weird game.
Nurse left Malachi out there too long.
(he was guarding Randle which is why a Rap big had to come and help, setting up RJB's big corner 3).  When they needed stops late and NYK was running Burks at the Point, Nurse Nick never went to StanJohnson, who played some fierce on-ball D the night before on CLE.  I'd rather StanJohn D-ing Burks than Trent late.

Things mostly went the Knix way, with Out Like Flynn having a 3 taken away, Siakim muffing the break which would have tied it with limited seconds left, and the wet spot was the Knix 6th man and should have its own place in the boxscore, forcing 3 turnovers.  Raps kinda got screwed operating on the slippery end of the court 4Q.

Randle made his FT's, Noel was hyper-active, and RJB cool in the clutch.
Squeaked out a win.
Was there a reason an effective Elf only played 17 mins?
Are we really gonna run with Burks at PG in the clutch?

Nice Khem Birch addition for TOR (waived by ORL).
TOR waived Pat McCaw, who was a fine player derailed by injuries the past few years.  Won titles his first 3 years in the League.  Then broke down.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 12, 2021, 03:32:23 PM
http://www.theringer.com/nba/2021/4/12/22379190/new-york-knicks-rj-barrett-nba-playoffs (http://www.theringer.com/nba/2021/4/12/22379190/new-york-knicks-rj-barrett-nba-playoffs)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 12, 2021, 08:38:53 PM
Nice Elfrid/Schroder duel.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 12, 2021, 08:42:00 PM
Our consistent star - Randle - the reason we are in each and every game, no matter the opponent.

- 19 at half -
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 12, 2021, 08:43:53 PM
+/-

ELFRID      +11

Kyle Kuzma       -20
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 12, 2021, 08:58:10 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 11, 2021, 05:50:40 PM
Oh, okay, you meant it shouldnt count as an assist.

And?
And I agree with you.

Made me wonder what other dubious assists players get credited with.


Don't spend much time wondering about dubious assists.

A great pass leading to a missed shot - not an assist
A pass leading to a player in great position who gets fouled in the act and two free throws - not an assist
A pass leading to a three point make or even a four point play - only counts as one assist

Assists are undercounted.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 12, 2021, 10:11:08 PM
A wonderful thumping of a weakened Lakers squad puts us back above .500 55 games in. I need 4 wins to hit my number. If I had to bet on that now, I’d take the over.

We made Drummond disappear.

Nice win on a very funky shooting night, with big big help from Payton. That’s another game he played well. The more, the merrier.
Title: Today is different...
Post by: carlos123 on April 12, 2021, 10:15:34 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 12, 2021, 10:11:08 PM
A wonderful thumping of a weakened Lakers squad puts us back above .500 55 games in. I need 4 wins to hit my number. If I had to bet on that now, I’d take the over.

We made Drummond disappear.

Nice win on a very funky shooting night, with big big help from Payton. That’s another game he played well. The more, the merrier.

Elf with a team best +27.

What about that?

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3eW3PJrvJU1msbTmScMdBWHDMbgidzQoWGHf3gHjD9IBvHtCT4sjNPrZHFIzCjJfXpQUMG3Zd7S2paTaAh5RGMt2ED1ZpMUtEqxPCvF56-IJ3m1mKRNzia6IxN6o9LST0wDzweoBMF99mKa_5zxnZKK=w614-h542-no?authuser=0)

Today, even my doggie loves Elf


PS. KP not playing again, looks more and more like a bust...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on April 12, 2021, 10:39:38 PM
14 steals!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 12, 2021, 10:46:24 PM
Knicks played a strong defensive game - but in years past would not have had enough offense.

Any bets on when Chip and Bo stop asking about Payton and his minutes?   

Elfrid and Rose and both uber-valuable to this team.  How Thibs chooses to use him each night - and Burks as well (when he plays point) is not foretelling of a damn thing.
Title: Crypto Fascist White Trash
Post by: carlos123 on April 12, 2021, 11:05:34 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on April 12, 2021, 10:46:24 PM

Any bets on when Chip and Bo stop asking about Payton and his minutes?   

Elfrid and Rose and both uber-valuable to this team.  How Thibs chooses to use him each night - and Burks as well (when he plays point) is not foretelling of a damn thing.

Chamaco, you keep making stuff up about Chip because you know he has you on ignore.

But I’m here to let him know 😜

Actually, Chip has defended Elf and his minutes.

Can’t you say anything other than laughable lies?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 13, 2021, 12:37:23 AM
Hard to believe Randle could have been so good tonight, having played 38 minutes yesterday - and then again today.

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 13, 2021, 04:54:34 AM
It’s pretty amazing, but Julius has gotten himself in shape for a full 38 of mostly very good basketball. There aren’t 10 guys in the league doing this successfully this year. RJ might be on the fringe of that, depending on how the last 17 games go.

We can get a rest day and a practice in before playing Dallas.

The development continuity brings, even in this weird short season, is starting to become evident in the play of this team.


I went and checked, there are 11 guys who have scored 20 ppg and played 50 or more games so far. When you make it 20 and 10 the list shrinks. When you make it 20 and 6 dimes that’s another smaller list, as is those in the 11 shooting 39% and up from three though this last group isn’t as small as you might think. What I think of as elite shooting accuracy has become fairly common in the league.
Title: D-Fence
Post by: chipstern on April 13, 2021, 01:26:32 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 12, 2021, 10:11:08 PM
A wonderful thumping of a weakened Lakers squad puts us back above .500 55 games in. I need 4 wins to hit my number. If I had to bet on that now, I’d take the over.

We made Drummond disappear.

Nice win on a very funky shooting night, with big big help from Payton. That’s another game he played well. The more, the merrier.

Dddddddd-FENCE

A "weakened" Lakers team that put some whup ass on the Nyets on Saturday night.  And still has a lot of talent on its squad up and down the roster. 

It seemed like every time I blinked, there was a deflection or a steal or a forced turnoever [24].  This on a night when Elfrid was 9-12 and RJ was 2-11. 

48 MINUTES Of DEFENSE. 

Genius favors the prepared mind.  Shout out to our coaches...

Tom Thibodeau   Head Coach   
Johnnie Bryant   Associate Head Coach   
Darren Erman   Assistant Coach   
Andy Greer   Assistant Coach   
Larry Greer   Assistant Coach   
Kenny Payne   Assistant Coach   
Dice Yoshimoto   Assistant to the Head Coach   

In researching the backgrounds of many of Thibs' adjuncts, there are a lot of DEFENSIVE specialists in there.  Wish I could ascertain who our video coordinators are.

Because while the attitude and tenacity of our team D was special, as witnessed by the total snuffing of Drummond, our prep/game plan was superb. 

I mean, anyone remember how Drummond simply CRUSHED us early in the season with the Cavs?

On Saturday night against the Nyets, Drummond and Harrell were a combined 30-19-2-2-3.

LAST NIGHT?  Drummond-Harrell-Gasol were a combined 6-13-1-2-2

Noels & Gibson were 14-19-2-6-5

Knicks are now 28-27, and only a game and a half separates the #8 from the #4 seed in the East.

Hawks 29-25
Heat 28-25
Hornets 27-25
Celtics 28-26
Knicks 28-27 [55 DOWN, 17 TO GO]
Pacers 25-27

Check out our remaining games:
   
New Orleans
Dallas
New Orleans
Charlotte
Atlanta
Toronto
Phoenix
Chicago
Houston
Memphis
Denver
Phoenix
LA
Los Angeles
San Antonio
Charlotte
Boston

No Gimmees in that Schedule

Including SIX against Easter Conference Teams in the Playoff Scrum.

Strap in Knicks Fans. 
Title: And THIS...
Post by: chipstern on April 13, 2021, 01:30:54 PM
Jonathan Wasserman: Nerlens Noel ranks 1st in NBA in defensive plus-minus, 2nd in NBA in block % for the 3rd best defensive team in the NBA while earning $5M on a one-year deal Talk about this more – via Twitter NBADraftWass
Title: ACL's
Post by: chipstern on April 13, 2021, 01:33:32 PM
Bobby Marks: 5 players out this season as a result of an ACL: Jonathan Isaac (injured in August) Spencer Dinwiddie Thomas Bryant Markelle Fultz Jamal Murray That is a high number in comparison to past years. – via Twitter BobbyMarks42

Jamal Murray just went down.

THAT breaks my heart.  One of my fave players. 
Title: Finally, For The Trader Vics Amongst You
Post by: chipstern on April 13, 2021, 01:38:53 PM
Dennis Schroeder On Knicks Radar

The Knicks face the Pelicans in New Orleans on Wednesday. So you will probably hear and read plenty about the future of Pelicans point guard Lonzo Ball, a potential Knicks target in free agency. But another lead guard on the Knicks’ schedule this week bears watching: Dennis Schroder. Schroeder is among the players on New York’s radar as the club looks ahead to free agency, SNY has learned. – via

New York will have enough cap space to make Schroder a competitive offer in free agency. The club is projected to have at least $50 million in cap space in the 2021 offseason. Point guard is a key position for the Knicks heading into the offseason — Elfrid Payton, Derrick Rose and Frank Ntilikina will all be free agents in 2021, so they will probably have at least one new lead guard in 2021-22. Between now and free agency in August, the Knicks will have to decide if Schroder is the right fit for a lineup that’s likely to heavily feature RJ Barrett and Julius Randle next season. – via SportsNet New York
Title: Re: And THIS...
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 13, 2021, 01:53:00 PM
Quote from: chipstern on April 13, 2021, 01:30:54 PM
Jonathan Wasserman: Nerlens Noel ranks 1st in NBA in defensive plus-minus, 2nd in NBA in block % for the 3rd best defensive team in the NBA while earning $5M on a one-year deal Talk about this more – via Twitter NBADraftWass

Excellent player.  Good think we looked in the HE SUCKS bin.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 13, 2021, 02:04:42 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 19, 2020, 10:27:59 AM
My "this may not happen" thinking is that I want Randle to be here with Paul - and they might need to send that salary back.  Though using some of our cap space for CP works as well if Julius is kept


Quote from the past for a Tuesday.......
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 13, 2021, 02:25:51 PM
I'll stick with Nawlins has been Mitch's equal ... and Elf is a good finisher.

Taj has really played his ass off recently.  Nearly a double-dub in 17 mins.
Another game Knix get big help from the injury list.  Also, the depleted Lakes playing the 6th of a 7 game road trip.  Certainly were a step slow all night.

The wear and tear on Randle, mentally and physically, are exposing cracks in his game.  This game a pair of moving screens, got stripped a couple times, 7 total turnovers, his 3-pt shot has not really been there, etc.  But give Julius credit for fighting through and dropping 34.  Lakes interestingly guarded Randle by committee.  Mostly, Morris, but Wes Math took some turns, Drummond tried a few possessions, Shroder was defending Randle now and then, maybe KCP a time or two.  Everybody but Kuzma really.

Kuz and Montrezl were no shows. Wow, Montrezl didn't score (and just 2 boards) in 15 minutes.  Kuz at least had one 2nd half mini-scoring outburst.  But mostly chucked long errant 3's.  Knix played good tough D.  And Lakes were super-sloppy.
Drummond is kind of a mess.  he can board and run over a smaller player now and then, but he's sloppy, and doesn't protect the rim. 

Good W.  Based on D.

Btw, Noel had a solid season last year.  I distinctly recall one game where he blocked 3 shots on one possessions.  I said before the season that he was my favorite off-season pickup.  I had thought of mentioning him as potential addition, but wasn't sure Knix wanted a Mitch clone as their backup C.  If you thought he sucks, that was your mistake.  It's just a real buyer's market on C's, with a distinct glut 

But a big key has been the Taj pickup and his impressive conditioning.  A battler, averaging 20 mins on the season.   He's coming up on 36 years old.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 13, 2021, 02:29:12 PM
The Jamal Murray ACL injury is horrible.
DEN put together a team that looked to set to compete for the West title.
Now, we get a lot more Wil Barton, and Monte Morris, with Gary Harris gone.

Injuries suck.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 13, 2021, 02:39:20 PM
Morris had been hurt earlier.  Plenty capable if close to 100%.

LOVE seeing NBA depth.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 13, 2021, 02:40:54 PM
If you thought he sucks that is your mistake

heh

FORUM opinion.  And not just of Noel.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 13, 2021, 03:02:20 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 24, 2020, 09:34:13 AM
Charlotte has a growing young core of players.  When their maturity starts to kick in, GH will be 32-33, and sucking up cap space which might better be spent on younger puppies.


Meanwhile who gets DRAWN to Charlotte as their win total increases annually?


From November......
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 13, 2021, 03:04:19 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 24, 2020, 11:21:49 AM
Knick moves only make sense if you think it's a good idea to waste another year and not get better.

It's really not much to ask to add one legit starter this offseason, especially since we have lots of cap space (even needed to get up to the minimum team salary) and we only have one legit starter (Randle) who we might be looking to dump.

Yeah, I think a goal and basically a requisite was to add at least one legit starter.
Maybe we weren't able to do so for various reasons, but I'd call it a definite failure and a guarantee of wasting another year.


Let's face it, we have another crappy team and a we're a crappy franchise.



......
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 13, 2021, 04:02:02 PM
We stopped having crappy coaching.
Which has made a big difference.  Especially on defense. 
Who would have predicted the Knix with a top 3 defense?
That and A-S Julius are the key elements.  Both surprises.

Otherwise Noel and Burks fit in well.
While we've gotten more than anticipated from #23 pick Quickly.
RJB has developed.
I was optimistic that Bullock would have a bounce back year.
(the additions of Rose and Taj have significantly bolstered the bench, subsequent to my above lament).
Knix have also had good luck regarding injuries and games missed. 
Our starting lineup has been very consistent.  Mostly just Noel swapped in for damaged Mitch.

Vegas had the Knix pegged at 22.5 Wins.
NYK were the first team to exceed the Vegas projected Win Total.
Wasn't a lot of reason to expect .500 ball or close to it.
Thibs is legit, but I'm still in wait and see mode on the front office. 

Most everything has gone well.
Negatives? 
Haven't gotten much from ObiT.  Knox and Franc are largely afterthoughts.
Limited shooting.
Julius getting worn down with big minutes/responsibility.

I still would have liked to have added a quality starter, a shooter at either PG (difficult to do) or on the Wing.  We pretty much have 3 legit starters and 2 of those are rather young. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 13, 2021, 05:33:57 PM
In the fleeting glimpses of Knox, Frank, and Obi, they do appear to be getting better at the Thibs priority areas of their games. Gotta earn it if you want to be good.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 13, 2021, 08:19:05 PM
That and A-S Julius are the key elements.  Both surprises.



Meh....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 13, 2021, 08:21:02 PM
Haven't gotten much from ObiT.

Havent asked much

  Knox and Franc are largely afterthoughts.


Some of us had them as such all summer.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 13, 2021, 08:31:09 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 13, 2021, 04:02:02 PM

Negatives? 
Haven't gotten much from ObiT.

He needs more run.

(https://preview.redd.it/erycr67pezs61.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=ab72becec5ca01b36a1d4b9a86dada1292be2ee7)
Title: Preseason Predictions
Post by: chipstern on April 13, 2021, 10:50:25 PM
BoD: I enjoyed your reflections on Knicks signings and progress and the joy of the home team inexplicably [well, not inexplicably, THIBS] becoming a defensive standard bearer, and being the only team to exceed the Vegas over/under.

Query?

I chickened out on 38-34 or even 36-36 and finally settled on a more conservative projection of 33-39 for our pre-season predictions of our final standing.  As I recall, Dawg and I were out there alone on that liferaft of positivity. 

Can anyone post the preseason predictions?  They might prove interesting, such as projecting Obi as a conclusive bust. 

I seem to recall that BoD's call was something like 22-50. 

Anyone???
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 13, 2021, 11:06:48 PM
Who gives a shit?
Title: Predictions
Post by: carlos123 on April 13, 2021, 11:20:17 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on April 13, 2021, 11:06:48 PM
Who gives a shit?

We all do, including you, Crypto Fascist White Trash.

I know I was very low, maybe 20 wins? mea culpa.

I think Kamster the Hamster has the numbers 🐹

Chamaco Cartero was also low.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 14, 2021, 02:19:40 AM
The Celts held of Los’ Knicks west by 1.

It’s looking like it’s getting easier to climb up into 6 than to fall back to 9.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 14, 2021, 04:22:31 AM
I should be able to find the forum Win Projections.  Will look later.
Finally a year the optimists among us were right!

I really think the Knick transformation on D has been spectacular. From bad to a Top 5 team defense in one season with largely the same players.  Yes the continuity and RJB's development have helped.  But still an almost unfathomable reversal.
I know some aren't fond of Elf or Bullox starting, but they've been key guys in making the defense work.  Knix really a superior rebounding team, which is how you finish off defensive possessions.  LAL and TOR had considerable trouble getting 2nd chance opps.

I agree that ObiT gets mostly an incomplete.  I'd like to see him get more run too.  While cutting Julius' minutes down to perhaps the 32-34 range.  But some of that is on ObiT.  With better defense, he'd likely be out there more.   (same true for Knox).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 14, 2021, 04:31:59 AM
You think the Celts might want to reconsider that Hayward to IND for Myles Turner and McDoug trade?

Quote
It is believed that ... a sign-and-trade with Indiana was on the table before Hayward ultimately signed with the Hornets for $120 million over four years. Gary Washburn of the Boston Globe reported that Hayward was hellbent on returning home to Indiana to play for the Pacers, who offered Turner and Doug McDermott to the Celtics, who would then sign-and-trade Hayward back to Indiana.

Boston, again according to Washburn, countered by asking for either Victor Oladipo or T.J. Warren to pair with Turner instead of McDermott, which is classic Ainge greed. Oladipo might have low trade value right now, but Ainge was basically trying to get a guy who was, not that long ago, an All-NBA player, along with a very good big man in Turner, for a player in Hayward that he had already decided to divorce.

From the sounds of it, Ainge wanted the second player in the deal to be someone he deemed more valuable than McDermott because the first player in the deal, Turner, was not a player, or contract, that interested him.

I didn't get why Ainge didn't want Turner.  Terrific backline defender, low volume offender, can stretch the floor some.  And McD is a lights out shooter.  I was surprised they could get that much for a sign-n-trade Hayward.   Then Ainge said no thanks.

Instead BOS ends up with a mucky year.  The Foul Lord Robert Williams at C, and paying Tristan 2/$19M.   Instead of MyTurn turning back rim drives.  Somewhere between weird and inexplicable.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 14, 2021, 05:09:47 AM
Here's what I found stashed in the NBA forum from a day or two after the season commenced:

Quote from: bodiddley on December 28, 2020, 03:15:03 AM

2021 Knick Win Total Projections

FWK     34
Chip     33
Les      33
Facil     32

Luee     26
BoDid   24
kiid       24
Jack Straw 23
Kam     22

Czarlos  20
BankC's 19

Well, my 24 W prediction was actually dead middle of the pack, though on the decidedly low end, where most expectations resided.  Even the four Knick optimists among us were only anticipating around a 33-39 W-L record..
Title: Re: Predictions
Post by: lesterluv on April 14, 2021, 09:08:15 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on April 13, 2021, 11:20:17 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on April 13, 2021, 11:06:48 PM
Who gives a shit?

We all do, including you, Crypto Fascist White Trash.


lol, that lil bitch gives a shit more than anyone else.

He must spend hours combing through old posts hoping to dig up some morsel that proves him right about something, anything.

There ain't much to find tho
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 14, 2021, 09:41:52 AM
Well, it would appear as if the Elfrid Payon Experiment [ZERO in 18 minutes on 0-6, 0-3, 0-0, with 3 boards and one assist] IS OVER.   ZERO TEMPO, Leadership And Defense for a desultory -15--but even THAT doesn't begin to tell the whole story.


Chipstern, after GAME 2

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 14, 2021, 09:42:59 AM
and more, including his plea for Jared Harper - heh

Yeah Yeah, I know, I know, but why the hell not while we are waiting on Immanuel and Austin ANYWAY.  Not like we stand much of a chance against the Bucks.  Otherwise, we should be starting Burks in the back court with RJ...I mean, Elfrid is a farce.

Why not throw Jared Harper into the deep end of the pool and see if he can compete against men?   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 14, 2021, 09:52:00 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on April 14, 2021, 09:42:59 AM
and more, including his plea for Jared Harper - heh

Yeah Yeah, I know, I know, but why the hell not while we are waiting on Immanuel and Austin ANYWAY.  Not like we stand much of a chance against the Bucks.  Otherwise, we should be starting Burks in the back court with RJ...I mean, Elfrid is a farce.



Elfrid went 12-16 for 27-7-3 line as we beat Bucks by 20

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on April 14, 2021, 10:06:19 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on April 14, 2021, 09:41:52 AM

Chipstern, after GAME 2

heh


See what i'm saying....there ain't nothing else in his life, ...least since his jizm facial supplier got sent back to Mar A Lago
Title: BoD
Post by: chipstern on April 14, 2021, 12:04:51 PM
Thanks for the win total predictions. 

Didn't we beat Milwaukee rather decisvely early on [they got revenge]?  That was a clue that something might be up. 

THIBS is one stubborn MF, and while one might not agree with everything he does, he is consistent, and has everyone buying in. 

The overriding principle being, DEFENSE.  That is what gets you minutes on the floor and keeps you there. 

I mean, my God, while we are still vulnerable to the three, nothing like the After Prom Party that teams used to enjoy coming into the Garden going back like twenty years, if memory serves. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 14, 2021, 12:34:27 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 31, 2020, 02:30:03 PM
Or - I will add - has the press horribly devalued Randle, never ever figuring he could be here for the long haul? 

Julius true shooting percentage fell to .538 a year ago but was ,600+ the 2 years prior.

None of what we see now is surprising to me.  He is a good SHOOTER so getting better at 3 point range as he ages is almost expected.  And the assists?  A player that has always had excellent court vision (6 triple doubles entering this year, a 10+ assist game every year except his first with NY)

Another oldie but goodie, next to a post from Bo saying we should let Randle up his value then deal him
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on April 14, 2021, 12:40:05 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 14, 2021, 04:31:59 AM
You think the Celts might want to reconsider that Hayward to IND for Myles Turner and McDoug trade?

Quote
It is believed that ... a sign-and-trade with Indiana was on the table before Hayward ultimately signed with the Hornets for $120 million over four years. Gary Washburn of the Boston Globe reported that Hayward was hellbent on returning home to Indiana to play for the Pacers, who offered Turner and Doug McDermott to the Celtics, who would then sign-and-trade Hayward back to Indiana.

Boston, again according to Washburn, countered by asking for either Victor Oladipo or T.J. Warren to pair with Turner instead of McDermott, which is classic Ainge greed. Oladipo might have low trade value right now, but Ainge was basically trying to get a guy who was, not that long ago, an All-NBA player, along with a very good big man in Turner, for a player in Hayward that he had already decided to divorce.

From the sounds of it, Ainge wanted the second player in the deal to be someone he deemed more valuable than McDermott because the first player in the deal, Turner, was not a player, or contract, that interested him.

I didn't get why Ainge didn't want Turner.  Terrific backline defender, low volume offender, can stretch the floor some.  And McD is a lights out shooter.  I was surprised they could get that much for a sign-n-trade Hayward.   Then Ainge said no thanks.

Instead BOS ends up with a mucky year.  The Foul Lord Robert Williams at C, and paying Tristan 2/$19M.   Instead of MyTurn turning back rim drives.  Somewhere between weird and inexplicable.

I've long respected Ainge's wheeler dealer chops and draft savvy [although picking Tatum over Fultz sure blew up in his face, huh, speaking of going back and proving how YOU were right and the rest of us were wrong], but sometimes his eyes are bigger than his stomach. 

The Irving Trade kind of blew up in his face...Crowder and Olenyk and Bradley were key contributors [so was IT].  Rozier has gone on to be quite solid for Charlotte who are presently a game above .500 after years of frustration, and while I love Kemba, I dare say Ainge was shopping him at the trade deadline, but with his balky knees and big contract, no takers.

As for Turner, i recally can't fathom why Indy soured on him, save the idea he and Sabonis were not on idel match, mirroring the Knicks trading Bellamy to move Reed to center. 

Even more baffled as to why Ainge, faced with the certainly of Hayward's departure, felt like Turner and McDermott wasn't generous enough.  McDermott would actually ahve been a reasonable stand in for Hayward, and Hayward is a good secondary offensive option, while Turner is a good defender who makes 3/4 of his FTs, hits a third of his threes, and is an excellent shot blocker, all of which would've stood him well for the Celtics.  And at 6'11" 250. he's only 25. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 14, 2021, 01:48:03 PM
Begley on Yahoo sports:
Quote
One element to Randle’s game this season that’s stood out, to me, is how he’s found shooters on the perimeter. Per NBA.com, Reggie Bullock is shooting 41 percent from beyond the arc when receiving a pass from Randle (2.8 attempts per game); Barrett is hitting 44 percent of the threes he attempts off of a Randle pass (1.7 per game); Immanuel Quickley is knocking down 44 percent of his three-point attempts that result from a pass from Randle (1.0 per game).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 14, 2021, 02:01:56 PM
I didn't get why Ainge didn't want Turner.  Terrific backline defender, low volume offender, can stretch the floor some.  And McD is a lights out shooter. I was surprised they could get that much for a sign-n-trade Hayward.   Then Ainge said no thanks.


That is because you at the time - and as you continue to do now - undervalued the Butler Baller.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 14, 2021, 02:16:52 PM
I've long respected Ainge's wheeler dealer chops and draft savvy [although picking Tatum over Fultz sure blew up in his face, huh, speaking of going back and proving how YOU were right and the rest of us were wrong], but sometimes his eyes are bigger than his stomach.


Slight correction -

Ainge didnt actually select Tatum over Fultz and Ball.  He took the DEAL (where he would get Fultz, Tatum or Ball, guaranteed) over a choice between Fultz and Ball.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 14, 2021, 02:40:47 PM
As for Turner, i recally can't fathom why Indy soured on him, save the idea he and Sabonis were not on idel match, mirroring the Knicks trading Bellamy to move Reed to center.


Indy hasn't soured on Myles Turner - they simply preferred Hayward.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 14, 2021, 05:29:14 PM
Just noticing the 6 three pointers dropped by FLYNN yesterday

Thanks for keeping us updated, Bo
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on April 14, 2021, 10:19:10 PM
Happy with the win. But I want Burks and Barrett (along with Randle of course) in there at the end of the game.

Tonight Barrett wasn't in there; the other night Burks. We won them both.

Don't care. Burks our most clutch shooter, and Barrett is getting there. Just commit to the end game squad.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 14, 2021, 10:24:49 PM
shhh.......
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 14, 2021, 10:25:31 PM
How many minutes for Julius?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 14, 2021, 11:05:03 PM
Enough for him to light up his former team and almost break a sweat.

Burks was on it tonight.

Good work by Payton, Reg, and Taj, and RJ though he missed some I’d have like to see him hit.

I’m very comfortable seeing Pelle out there though I hope Noel is back soon.

Dallas and then once again these Pels coming up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 14, 2021, 11:44:10 PM
kiid in idiot trolling mode.  I can imagine what his postings are like in the politics forum.  Probably some great insights into the Chauvin trial ...

Reg Bull after a slow shooting start the first 5 games in Dec has been a model of consistency shooting 3's at a rate of 40% Jan, 40% Feb, 40.5% Mar, 41.4% Apr
But his 3Pt volume has risen steadily: 3.6 / 4.6 / 6.7 / 8.3 FGA's respectively.
So his scoring average has gone up: 7.8 /  8.9 / 10.6 / 13.1 correspondingly.

16 games post-AS game: 45.5 FG%; 42.1% on 3's
Bullox has been hot.  And our best non-C defender all season.
Title: Chamaco the troll
Post by: carlos123 on April 15, 2021, 12:50:50 AM
Quote from: BoZizzley on April 14, 2021, 11:44:10 PM
Chamaco in idiot trolling mode.  I can imagine what his postings are like in the politics forum.  Probably some great insights into the Chauvin trial ...

He ain’t got no other mode 👹
Title: Guess what?
Post by: Kam on April 15, 2021, 01:49:40 AM
First four game win streak under Thibs.
Title: Re: Guess what?
Post by: chipstern on April 15, 2021, 02:09:05 AM
Quote from: Kam on April 15, 2021, 01:49:40 AM
First four game win streak under Thibs.

Toronto
Memphis
LA
New Orleans

The game against the Lakers, and the manner in which we in the fourth marks a new plateau for our defense.

Against the Lakers, our threes weren't falling, but the defense saw us through.

Tonight, the Pelicans were tough, and wouldn't go away [Zion and Ingram are offensive juggernauts], but our defense kept them at bay until we could finish them off offensively down the stretch, Burks and Randle leading the way. 

Dallas on Friday? 

Let's see what adjustments Thibs has made.  The Mavs are going to be out for blood after a dramatic Doncic game winner tonight. 

Big game for us to put it mildly. 

We moved up to the 6 spot, which is where we would like to be, to avoid the bottom feeders' scrum. 

A half game ahead of Miami, and a whole game ahead of the Hornets, who both lost tonight, and a half game behind the Celtics and one game behind the Hawks. 

A-FUCKING-Mazing. 

Go Knicks. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 15, 2021, 03:21:04 AM
This was the perfect season to become a solid respectable team, as the East is very much in flux.  Only really 3 strong teams in the East: PHI, MIL, BKY.
And if Embiid isn't 100% or BKY is missing Harden (or any 2 of it's Big 3), then those teams are vulnerable.

Half of last year's playoff teams BOS, IND, MIA, TOR have all fallen off.
Expect one to get rolling or be playoff-ready.  But that still just makes perhaps 4 strong teams (without injuries).

ATL, NYK, CHA have all risen.  Taking advantage of the changing of the guard.
When healthy ATL has a deep talented young team. 
Knix a defensive juggernaut, with enough offense if Uncle Julius remains ambulatory.
CHA has a tough road with Ball out and Hayward to likely miss the rest of the regular season.  Bad luck for them (though no real surprise if Haywire or say Gallo get injured).

A good year to get our ish together.
Also last year was a deep strong draft, so good we got to turns.
This draft seems a bit less (?)  I havent really followed it at all
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 15, 2021, 09:13:35 AM
Didn't see the game, but 5 fouls in 42 minutes for Randle put me in mind of an idea in the back of my head for weeks.  Teams know that Julius is going to play close to 40 mins and is the key to the Knick offense.  So why don't they go at Randle and force him to play defense, trying to tag fouls on him or just wear him down further for the 4Q?

Randle is also probably our weakest defender, especially in space.  I'd put him in PnR's, hunt him some on switches, etc.  A little over 1 minute left in the Memf game, Randle had 5 fouls, was iso-ed on Morant, and Ja passed off without challenging Randle at all.  Randle in foul trouble (or worn down) would seem to be a good blueprint for defeating the Knix.  And having your best scorers going at the other team's weakest defenders is an age-old plan.

Title: I'm ready to FIGHT any RJ haters
Post by: Kam on April 15, 2021, 11:31:08 AM
https://twitter.com/i/status/1382333048608423936 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1382333048608423936)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 15, 2021, 11:39:09 AM
This draft seems a bit less (?)  I havent really followed it at all


Solid draft this year

But we should be taking the 2 number 1s and trying to move up.  Identifying a team in which to do this is the next step.
Title: LaMarcus Aldridge retires
Post by: Kam on April 15, 2021, 11:39:24 AM
Good player.  Good career.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 15, 2021, 11:41:04 AM
42 minutes for Julius?  Mon Dieu'!  How was he even walking let alone making plays in the second half?

Thibs has taken forum advice and gone the other way with it

heh
Title: Re: LaMarcus Aldridge retires
Post by: bodiddley on April 15, 2021, 11:48:30 AM
Quote from: Kam on April 15, 2021, 11:39:24 AM
Good player.  Good career.

Once Kyrie wandered away, he probably said screw it I don't need this ish.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 15, 2021, 12:10:02 PM
The butt stomping Drummond put on LMA foreshadowed what he was up against in the playoffs.



Title: LaMarcus
Post by: chipstern on April 15, 2021, 12:37:56 PM
A man of 35 is young by any measure, save hoops. 

Enjoy your family and kids. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 15, 2021, 12:40:00 PM
Bo is right though

I can see Aldridge saying, "It's different here - I'm out"

Proud product of Pop system leaves Nash asylum.

(No offense, Stevie-boy.  It's working)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 15, 2021, 12:45:39 PM
Apparently had an irregular heartbeat, which worried him a lot.
Decided in favor of health and family.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 15, 2021, 02:44:43 PM
Thibs flaws include grinding his vets into dust and not developing rooks.
Win now is good, and it will be nice to see the Knix in the playoffs.
But it'd also be nice to keep Randle fresh and healthy so we can do well in the playoffs.  And have ObiT gain experience and improve.
Need to balance short, medium and long term goals.

Harden was leading the NBA in minutes played.  Then his hammy went whammy.
Julius is averaging a league leading 37.1 mins per game (tied with Harden, but Harden has played 13 fewer games).
So Julius leading the league in total minutes played.
Is this wise?
Years past, HOU Harden used to play huge minutes, put up big numbers and bag W's in the regular season ... and then be worn down when the playoffs rolled around.

Lotta times Randle looks gassed in the 4Q, which doesn't help for that game and ups the risk of injury.  Compressed season doesn't help.
FVV 3rd in minutes per 36.1 -- out with a hip injury.
Jamaal Murray 10th with 35.5 mpg is crippled in the hospital.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 15, 2021, 03:52:29 PM
Thibs flaws include grinding his vets into dust and not developing rooks.


Rubbish
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 15, 2021, 04:09:14 PM
Lotta times Randle looks gassed in the 4Q, which doesn't help for that game and ups the risk of injury.  Compressed season doesn't help

You need to stop

Been proven wrong and choose to double down
Title: The Received Wisdom As To How Youth Is Not Served Under Thibs
Post by: chipstern on April 15, 2021, 04:37:37 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 15, 2021, 02:44:43 PM
Thibs flaws include grinding his vets into dust and not developing rooks.
Win now is good, and it will be nice to see the Knix in the playoffs.
But it'd also be nice to keep Randle fresh and healthy so we can do well in the playoffs.  And have ObiT gain experience and improve.
Need to balance short, medium and long term goals.

Harden was leading the NBA in minutes played.  Then his hammy went whammy.
Julius is averaging a league leading 37.1 mins per game (tied with Harden, but Harden has played 13 fewer games).
So Julius leading the league in total minutes played.
Is this wise?
Years past, HOU Harden used to play huge minutes, put up big numbers and bag W's in the regular season ... and then be worn down when the playoffs rolled around.

Lotta times Randle looks gassed in the 4Q, which doesn't help for that game and ups the risk of injury.  Compressed season doesn't help.
FVV 3rd in minutes per 36.1 -- out with a hip injury.
Jamaal Murray 10th with 35.5 mpg is crippled in the hospital.

The RECEIVED WISDOM which holds that Thibs does not develp youth, is most definitely a cannard. 

One might even suggest it is HORSESHIT. 

Does he lean on his vets and force feed them minutes?  You bet. 

However, in terms of PLAYER DEVELOPMENT, be it youth or simply youthful, he developed Jimmy Butler quite nicely, let alone Noah...Gibson....Derek Rose. 

On the Knicks? 

Yes, all of the puppies are on a very short leash.  Particularly Obi [23], let alone Kevin [21] and Frank [22] and Jared [23]. 

However, R.J. [20] has made great strides as a soph, and Quickley [21] is a rotation player as a rookie.  Mitchell [22] was stepping up to the next plateau in terms of rim protection, shot blocking and self control vis a vis foul trouble, when he got hurt.

And again, there are YUTEs and then there are YOUNG PLAYERS, so puppies are NOT the only aspect of player development. 

Julius [26]
Nerlens [26]
Elfrid [27]

Playing better now than they were in December? 

You bet.  Playing better under Thibs than past coaches?  Mmmmm, there's a discussion there. 

Have Bullock [30] and Burks [29] raised their games?

Class? 

As for the graybeards, Rose [32] & Gibson [35], Thibs has created a safe house for them to make a significant contribution, even in the autumn of their years.  And Pelle [31] looks like he can give us some good coverage.

We are seriously competing in the playoff scrum, when the Vegas geniuses had us slotted for the bottom of the Lottery.  HELLO.

Yes Thibs is stubborn.  Yes he leans too much on his top tier players.  And while a case can be made as to dust grinding, in case you haven't noticed, D'Antoni got a pass for 7-8 man rotations, while Thibs has gone 10-Deep since day one. 

So in closing, Thibs IS surely developing youth, HAS instilled accoutability, and restored DEFENSE--not only back, but to a top tier level. 

THIBS IS A WINNER, and he has gotten the roster he was handed to buy into his passion, and put the work in to take it to the next level. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 15, 2021, 07:16:19 PM
I dont use the term WINNER until he at least gets to a Finals.
Title: Conclusion
Post by: carlos123 on April 15, 2021, 10:14:17 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on April 15, 2021, 07:16:19 PM
I dont use the term WINNER until he at least gets to a Finals.

Chamaco likes to go to war both with BoZ and with Chip.

But when their positions differ, he goes against Chip.

I'm sure both of them feel honored by all of the attention, just like Chamaco feels honored by my attention. Yes?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 16, 2021, 12:29:37 AM
Even Clyde has noted Randle looking awfully tired late in 4Q's.  Including the one game where he appeared to be holding his thigh (Clyde thought a bent over Randle was holding his knee).  Randle is 1st in minutes played; RJB 3rd.

A Little Thibs History:
Rose averaged 37 mpg his first 3 seasons (twice under Vinny the Black; and then during an MVP 3rd season under Thibs), then midway through his 4th season, Rose's ACL gave out.  Missed essentially 2.5 seasons.  Never the same, never played nearly as many minutes, most seasons missing a couple dozen games, etc.
Bulls went from losing in the conference finals with Rose to losing in the 1st round after he became encrippled.  The Rose injury ended the Bulls as any kind of contender.

Deng averaged 39 mpg his first 3 seasons under Thibs, leading the league twice.
A serious wrist injury the 2nd year caused his to miss 28 games.

Thibs first season in Minny, he had Towns, Wiggins and Zach La Vine all playing 37 mpg.  Wiggins and Towns finished 1st & 2nd in minutes played that year, Zach LV would have joined them in the Top 3 but his ACL gave out in Game 47 ...

RJB and Randle are both in good shape.  But could break down.  Players often don't pay attention to overwork or muscle/joint fatigue issues.  Nobody wants to come out of a game.  But injury risk, concentration and efficiency are improved when players are more rested and playing closer to 30 than 40 mins per.  Which is why nobody plays close to 40 mins per.  Hopefully Randle and RJB remain healthy, but both have an elevated risk of injury due to overwork and on-court fatigue. 
At least RJB's minutes have come down lately.

Otherwise, here's an amendment:
Thibs doesn't play rooks/yute who can't defend adequately.  Unfortunately that covers a large % of young guys/rooks, who have to learn how to defend at an NBA level.  So ObiT and Knox are untrusted.  Franc too limited on O. 

RJB gets it and is treated as an honorary vet (big minutes).  Quickly has NBA scoring ability that the team needs and is active on D, but is kept on a bit of a short leash.  Heavy reliance on vets improves the short term outlook but at the expense of long term development (see Obit, Knox).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 16, 2021, 01:36:50 AM
Since 2010-11, no player has averaged 40 or more minutes per game.
Butler on Thibs Minny team was closest at 38.7 mpg.

During the first decade of the 21st C, a few players a year would hit 40 mpg, including 10 in 2001 & 2003.

NBA Trivia:
Who were the last 5 players to average over 40 minutes per game for a season?

One player had 12 straight seasons of 40+ mins, and if it weren't for just 39 mpg in Y2, he would have had 14 straight 40 min seasons.  His efficiency numbers were quite low.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on April 16, 2021, 07:34:31 AM
Have to figure the "40 minutes low-efficiency" guy was Iverson and two other 40 minute guys were Jordan and LeBron.  That's a stat for freakish athletes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on April 16, 2021, 09:00:36 AM
I don't know if he was one of the last 5, but like most of these questions, Wilt is usually a good guess. As it regards to minutes, he rarely sat, and when he did, (infamously in the '69 Finals) it did not have a happy ending for him.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 16, 2021, 11:01:28 AM
Starbury was a 40 minute man with NYK
Title: Trivia time
Post by: Kam on April 16, 2021, 11:18:58 AM
There have been 4 players to score 1500 points, grab 500 rebounds, and hand out 250 assists in their first 100 starts before their 21st birthday.

LeBron
Carmelo
Luka

Name the 4th?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 16, 2021, 11:36:14 AM
ACL tear is not an overuse injury.

Risk factors
There are a number of factors that increase your risk of an ACL injury, including:

Being female — possibly due to differences in anatomy, muscle strength and hormonal influences
Participating in certain sports, such as soccer, football, basketball, gymnastics and downhill skiing
Poor conditioning
Using faulty movement patterns, such as moving the knees inward during a squat
Wearing footwear that doesn't fit properly
Using poorly maintained sports equipment, such as ski bindings that aren't adjusted properly
Playing on artificial turf

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/acl-injury/symptoms-causes/syc-20350738

Title: Re: Trivia time
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 16, 2021, 11:37:43 AM
Quote from: Kam on April 16, 2021, 11:18:58 AM
There have been 4 players to score 1500 points, grab 500 rebounds, and hand out 250 assists in their first 100 starts before their 21st birthday.

LeBron
Carmelo
Luka

Name the 4th?


r


j


b
Title: Useage? Are We Talking About USEAGE?
Post by: chipstern on April 16, 2021, 12:21:35 PM
Wilt

Averaged [AVERAGED] 45.8 for his career.

Impressed yet? 

There's MORE. 

His 1961-62 season for the Philadelphia Warriors, was Wilt's most PRODIGIOUS Statistacally, including his peak FT% of .613 [835-1363 for fuck's sake]

50.4 ppg
25.7 rebounds
2.4 assists

...for a Warrior team that took the Celtics to SEVEN GAMES in the EC Finals. 

Impressed. 

Well, sit on my face and call me Grace...here is the topper...

USEAGE? 

Wilt averaged 48.5 minutes per game for 80 games. 

Which means, HE NEVER LEFT THE COURT, including overtime. 

But MJ is the GOAT. 

PuhLEEESE. 

PS: Wilt ONLY has two rings?  KMA.  Wilt regularly ran into the Celtics in the ECF, often taking them to seven games, overcoming them on the 1966-67 76ers in five games.  Wilt wasn't the only GOAT to reun into the Celtic buzz saw.  Oscar, Jerry, Elgin...

Title: PS
Post by: chipstern on April 16, 2021, 12:34:53 PM
Looking at Wilt's final season, after winning the NBA championship vs our Knicks the year before. 

Checking out USEAGE for the Knicks in their subsequent return engagement in which they beat the Lakers 4-1. 

Game ONE: Frazier and DeB, 44 minutes each.  Wilt then 36?  48 minutes.

Game TWO: Frazier 48, Bradley 42.  Wilt?  48

Game THREE:  Walt 45, Pearl 42.  Wilt 48

Game FOUR:  Walt 45, DeB 44, Wilt 48

Game FIVE: Walt 48, Bradley 43, Wilt 48

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 16, 2021, 12:35:52 PM
Wilt was great

Wilt played against slow guys and midgets
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 16, 2021, 01:11:49 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on April 16, 2021, 07:34:31 AM
Have to figure the "40 minutes low-efficiency" guy was Iverson and two other 40 minute guys were Jordan and LeBron.  That's a stat for freakish athletes.

Iverson played 40+ mins 13 of his first 14 seasons, and 39 mins in his 2nd season. 
Averaged 41.4 mins in PHI (12 years) and 42.0 in his 3 Den years.
But for PHI he shot 42% overall and just 31% from 3.

Right on LeBJ too.  Basically played 40 min a night his first 5 years (rook year just 39.5 mins).
Looks like he averaged over 40 mpg his first stint in Cleverland (7 years).

Monta Ellis was the last to average over 40 mpg, leading the league in B2B seasons.
Those were Curry's first two seasons; Monta got traded middle of next year.

Gerald Crash Wallace
Joe Johnson
Gilbert Arenas

JoeJohnson used to be out there all the time, with both units, much like LeBron.

Glancing at the 90's:
Chris Mullin led the league in mins in B2B years (both over 40+)
Sprewell 43 mins one season in GSW.
Anthony Mason the leader in B2B yeras.
Michael Finley 3 times led the league (always liked his game).
Vin Baker once.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on April 16, 2021, 01:16:36 PM
Wilt was fucking huge.

I'm pretty sure I've told you guys my brush with greatness re Wilt in April '67.

Re '73 I'm still irked that the Celts (4-3 losers to the Knicks in the ECF) didn't play Wilt in the '73 Finals and send him into retirement.

Havlicek ran into another 2 big slow guys, a fucking politician from Princeton ran him into a pitcher for the Chicago White Sox who set a mean pick, and dislocated his shoulder in G3 of that series. One arm Johnny (who usually played 40+ minutes) missed a game and missed minutes in G-5-6-7, but played left-hand, but...

Beating Wilt in the Finals again would have been fitting with his career arc.

Title: Re: Trivia time
Post by: carlos123 on April 16, 2021, 01:23:24 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on April 16, 2021, 11:37:43 AM
Quote from: Kamster on April 16, 2021, 11:18:58 AM
There have been 4 players to score 1500 points, grab 500 rebounds, and hand out 250 assists in their first 100 starts before their 21st birthday.

LeBron
Carmelo
Luka

Name the 4th?

r

j

b

He really wanted to say
j
m
m
r
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 16, 2021, 01:50:43 PM
Not sure how kiid goes through life not understanding context.  Charitably I'd say he just rushes through resulting in misunderstanding, but it's also possible he just is incapable of comprehending much of the information he encounters.

As for ACL injuries, that linked article simply talks about the general population.  Merely states that basketball and other change of direction sports are ACL
injury risks  Pretty obvious those activities are where most ACL injuries occur.(skiing too because the stiff high ski boots transfer a lot of force to the knee, plus the torque associated with long skis).

But which basketball players are more susceptible to an ACL injury, when and why Occasionally it's just an awkward landing/takeoff, or maybe a player rolls into a guys knee bending it sideways or backwards too far (often that can be an MCL).
But I'd argue that awkward landings occur more when a player's body is exhausted.
Furthermore, ACL and other serious injuries also tend to occur more when a player has other lower limb injuries --  hamstring, hip, ankle -- which can compromise balance and natural motion, and those associated injuries are often caused by fatigue and overuse.

Most hoop ACL tears are on non-contact plays. 
Dr. Richard Steadman, who pioneered microfracture surgery and basically the field of modern sports knee surgery,is on record that most serious knee injuries occur when the muscles and ligaments are fatigued.  Steadman determine that most of his skiing patients knee injuries occurred by far late in the day.  According to him, the same held true for football and basketball.  Tired, worn-down ligaments and tendons tend to give way under repetitive stress when the joint is compromised by fatigue.  Not surprising.

I think of Bernard King going down at the tail end of a meaningless game, as he tried to catch up to a fast break late in a 4Q.
Not surprised that Jamal Murray crumpled with under 1 minute left in the game.
I'll try to look it up, but would be very interesting to see ACL tears per quarter for the last 30+ years.
(Achilles and other leg injuries most likely fit the same pattern of tired body parts giving way).
Edit: just checked in with Rose's ACL tear and here's the ESPN game headline:
Derrick Rose tears ACL late in Bulls' Game 1 win over 76ers (https://www.espn.com/nba/recap?gameId=320428004)
Quote
Rose crumbled to the ground after he drove the lane with about 1:20 left and the Bulls leading by 12.
Thanks Thibs!  (Follow the link and you can read Thibs being defensive about unnecessariyl risking/crippling his star player). I thought it was negligent when Randle played 35 or however many minutes recently in a 40 point blowout v. ORL.

Here's an article comparing Murrays' ACL injury to Rose's in that both occurred in compressed schedule shortened seasons (https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/concern-over-jamal-murrays-knee-injury-evokes-reminders-of-shortened-2012-nba-season/).  Lotta injuries this year.

Btw, I was not surprised that Derrick Rose and Jeremy Lin both suffered serious knee injuries.  Their style involved getting very low when they cut to the basket.  Effective at evading Bigs in the paint, but puts tremendous strain on the knee joint.
And indeed, the ACL info says cutting or planting or jumping on a bent knee is high risk behavior.  They repeatedly drove inside and cut sharply while they were crouched very low to the ground.  It almost looked painful to me.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 16, 2021, 02:22:48 PM
Here's a list of 97 players who have torn their ACL:
https://www.dallashoopscast.com/blog/nba-stars-who-returned-after-torn-acl/

Looks like Danny Manning and Nene played the most seasons (13) post-ACL surgery.
 Adult Al Harrington 12; Shaun the Sheep Livingston presumed to play 11 more years. But of course post-ACL longevity is only possible if it was torn when a player was fairly young.
Knick Trivia:

Name the 8 Knicks who tore their ACL.

Hint: 3 in the last ten years.
4 in the 80's; 1 in the early 90's
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on April 16, 2021, 04:24:05 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on April 16, 2021, 01:16:36 PM
Wilt was fucking huge.

I'm pretty sure I've told you guys my brush with greatness re Wilt in April '67.

Re '73 I'm still irked that the Celts (4-3 losers to the Knicks in the ECF) didn't play Wilt in the '73 Finals and send him into retirement.

Havlicek ran into another 2 big slow guys, a fucking politician from Princeton ran him into a pitcher for the Chicago White Sox who set a mean pick, and dislocated his shoulder in G3 of that series. One arm Johnny (who usually played 40+ minutes) missed a game and missed minutes in G-5-6-7, but played left-hand, but...

Beating Wilt in the Finals again would have been fitting with his career arc.

Russell's first year as a coach, Alex Hannum's Sixers STOMPED on the Celtics. 

Alex Hannum being the last coach to have beaten the Celtics back in what, '57, '58, with the Bob Pettirt St. Louis Hakws. 

Much like Bill Sharman did in Wilt's autumn years with the Lakers, Hannum got Wilt to buy into more of a team game, not that he wasn't a team player, but Hannum and Sharman showed Wilt that he didnt have to do it all. 

In 1966-67, for the championship Sixers, Wilt's scoring was "down" to only 24.1 ppg [though his FG% was a career high of .683%], but he tallied his customary 24 + rebounds a game, while his assists were up to a Julius Randle-like [sarcasm] 7.8 a game over an average of 45.5 minutes. 

As per the Celtics beating Wilt one more time, the Lakers had the Celtics in their sights,  That game 7 loss was not on Wilt, but on that dickless egomaniac Van Bredakoff who decided to PROVE that "we can win without you" when Charmberlain was ready to come back in from a balky knee in a fourth quarter where the Lakers outscored the Celts 30-17 [Jerry West was his usual heroic self, notching 42-13-12 in a heartbreaking 108-106 loss].
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on April 16, 2021, 05:36:13 PM
That Finals was one of my favorites, a 4th place aging Celtic team, heading for its last round-up, an underdog on the road against Lakers 3-headed monster.

Strange decision by VBK to sit Wilt with 5 mins to go, but he did get within a couple of points and if not for Don Nelson's famous bounce...

who knows maybe he'd be seen as a maverick genius.

Jack Kent Cooke had the balloons in the rafters and the USC marching band ready to march, but Red had a leprechaun and a cigar tp smoke. 



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on April 16, 2021, 06:29:04 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on April 16, 2021, 05:36:13 PM
That Finals was one of my favorites, a 4th place aging Celtic team, heading for its last round-up, an underdog on the road against Lakers 3-headed monster.

Strange decision by VBK to sit Wilt with 5 mins to go, but he did get within a couple of points and if not for Don Nelson's famous bounce...

who knows maybe he'd be seen as a maverick genius.

Jack Kent Cooke had the balloons in the rafters and the USC marching band ready to march, but Red had a leprechaun and a cigar tp smoke.

HE? 

You mean JERRY WEST, dude. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on April 16, 2021, 06:31:07 PM
Quote from: chipstern on April 16, 2021, 06:29:04 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on April 16, 2021, 05:36:13 PM
That Finals was one of my favorites, a 4th place aging Celtic team, heading for its last round-up, an underdog on the road against Lakers 3-headed monster.

Strange decision by VBK to sit Wilt with 5 mins to go, but he did get within a couple of points and if not for Don Nelson's famous bounce...

who knows maybe he'd be seen as a maverick genius.

Jack Kent Cooke had the balloons in the rafters and the USC marching band ready to march, but Red had a leprechaun and a cigar tp smoke.

HE? 

You mean JERRY WEST, dude.

No I was talking about VBK's coaching decision.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on April 16, 2021, 06:43:37 PM
I know. 

Coach VBK was a vile person. 

Elgin Baylor and Jerry West AND Wilt, deserved better. 

May he fry in Crisco for eternity, or be forced to French Kiss Kiid in Purgatory. 
Title: More Injuries
Post by: chipstern on April 16, 2021, 06:47:35 PM
FUCK

Adrian Wojnrowski: X-Rays negative and MRI coming tonight on Donovan Mitchell’s sprained right ankle, sources tell ESPN. – via

I love DM.  Hope he's okay. 
Title: Anyone?
Post by: chipstern on April 16, 2021, 06:50:06 PM
With an open roster spot after John Henson’s contract expired Thursday at midnight, the Knicks are leaning toward making a backcourt addition instead of another big man, according to league sources. One point guard on their radar is longtime European standout Mike James, who has played the last two seasons for CSKA Moscow, shooting over 40 percent from 3-point range. – via Marc Berman @ New York Post
Title: Re: Anyone?
Post by: chipstern on April 16, 2021, 06:52:51 PM
Quote from: chipstern on April 16, 2021, 06:50:06 PM
With an open roster spot after John Henson’s contract expired Thursday at midnight, the Knicks are leaning toward making a backcourt addition instead of another big man, according to league sources. One point guard on their radar is longtime European standout Mike James, who has played the last two seasons for CSKA Moscow, shooting over 40 percent from 3-point range. – via Marc Berman @ New York Post

Marc Berman

With an open roster spot after John Henson’s contract expired Thursday at midnight, the Knicks are leaning toward making a backcourt addition instead of another big man, according to league sources.

One point guard on their radar is longtime European standout Mike James, who has played the last two seasons for CSKA Moscow, shooting over 40 percent from 3-point range.

It is unclear how the news of Alec Burks being put into COVID-19 health and safety protocols will affect the Knicks’ decision making.

This season, the 30-year-old James is averaging 19.3 points and 4.7 assists in 27 Euro-League games.

In late March, however, James was suspended following an altercation with head coach Dimitris Itoudis, and reportedly left Moscow for the Pacific Northwest to pursue the NBA again. He technically still is under contract.

“I can’t wait to retire and not talk to none of y’all anymore,” James tweeted after the ban.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 16, 2021, 07:31:35 PM
1969 Game 7

Lakers missed NINETEEN free throws, 9 by Wilt.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 16, 2021, 07:32:43 PM
Oh fuck. Can we win without Alec?
Title: Re: Anyone?
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 16, 2021, 07:35:22 PM
Quote from: chipstern on April 16, 2021, 06:50:06 PM
With an open roster spot after John Henson’s contract expired Thursday at midnight, the Knicks are leaning toward making a backcourt addition instead of another big man, according to league sources. One point guard on their radar is longtime European standout Mike James, who has played the last two seasons for CSKA Moscow, shooting over 40 percent from 3-point range. – via Marc Berman @ New York Post

Very nice.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 16, 2021, 07:38:04 PM
Chamberlain was also 2-11 from the FT line in a  1-point Game 4 loss.

Seriously.

Fuck Wilt.
Title: Chamaco and VBK
Post by: carlos123 on April 16, 2021, 07:38:24 PM
Quote from: chipstern on April 16, 2021, 06:43:37 PM
I know. 

Coach VBK was a vile person. 

Elgin Baylor and Jerry West AND Wilt, deserved better. 

May he fry in Crisco for eternity, or be forced to French Kiss Kiid in Purgatory.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3d8yer3qpvL40q5Uxeq7M0gUpbvSUPy7_smL3WLRq6WfP_OqxlDTYEj1tCtmrZNeXNQrpJJf4Qc_awCAcjX8qzed-XXEB0eTwSFZEQueOnv_bQY4GqWAsLJPC49RGgJGxghRrNbwJb7PU67qUB9pIE-=w703-h570-no?authuser=0)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 17, 2021, 12:20:30 AM
Only caught the last 6 mins.
Uncle Julius dominant.
But the best Mavs can do is guard him with Sf Funky-Smith?
After that doesn't work a bunch, they try slow-footed Kleber.
You'd think Dwight Powell would be the best physical matchup.

Randle, RJB, Rose did most of the scoring.
Nawlins had a great late rim block. 
But partly cause Funky-Smith had a wide open lane but doesn't have any in-between game.  A little floater or stop and short J woulda been the easy way.

Luka 18 assists, but shot poorly from deep.
I've been touting Brunson Burner, but he had by far the team worst -20.
KZ looks like a solid low-impact game.

Knix hit 1/2 their 3; Mavs 1/3.
Knix continue to stifle opponents 3's.
And sucker teams into taking low % 3's.  Mavs took 45 3's, half their shots.

Whoa, with Burks out, RJB just absorbed his time and was out there for 46 mins
Still had the legs to make a late baseline J over KZ.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 17, 2021, 12:45:22 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 16, 2021, 07:32:43 PM
Oh fuck. Can we win without Alec?

oh fuck yeah.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 17, 2021, 12:49:43 AM
Quote from: Kam on April 17, 2021, 12:45:22 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 16, 2021, 07:32:43 PM
Oh fuck. Can we win without Alec?

oh fuck yeah.

I’m most pleasantly surprised by the result.
Title: 😊 Pleasantly surprised
Post by: carlos123 on April 17, 2021, 12:57:31 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 17, 2021, 12:49:43 AM
Quote from: Kam on April 17, 2021, 12:45:22 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 16, 2021, 07:32:43 PM
Oh fuck. Can we win without Alec?

oh fuck yeah.

I’m most pleasantly surprised by the result.

That, and also that Kamster the Hamster went back to his old “KP tosses salads in Dallas”.

BoZ, I don’t know what’s the time difference between NY and Shanghai, but... When do you sleep? I mean, you seem to see every game, even if it’s just the last six minutes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 17, 2021, 01:26:04 AM
I've been almost exclusively watching replays off the internet.  A number of sites have full game replays with good quality and either commercials edited out, or you can skip them.
Usually I can get Clyde and MSG.  I've seen more Knick games this year than the last two together.

I've mostly been watching replays at night.  It's pretty easy in China to go half a day or more without knowing who won,
though sometimes I go to ESPn and see the outcome by accident.  Today was the first live action I've seen in a while.  Just a Saturday morning game here, I was up 15 minutes before tipoff, but
did some things and wanted to catch the 2nd half, but got delayed.  Live streaming can be a bit of a mixed bag, as
occasionally the link I get to work might be in Portuguese, which does not sound at all as I thought it would. 
Portuguese sounds like a cross between Spanish and Russian.  Really it sounds Slavic to me, I'd probably guess
Bulgarian.  The internet replays have been terrific, though just on my computer monitor but full screen it looks good.

This is my go to replay site:
https://www.nbafullhd.com/
They usually have links up about 2 hours after the game or so.  Generally have MSG, plus the opponents TV feed and maybe one more.
Links are divided into roughly quarters.  Nice if you missed part of a game or want to see a replay of a sequence/possession.

This is my main Live streaming source:
http://w5.sportstreamings.com/basketball.aspx

This one has some pop-up crap now and then, but usually has over a dozen links to every game.
https://www.usagoals.net/b/basketball.html
So you can get some feed to work, though it sometimes it can be hard to find MSG and my Portuguese no es bueno (read: non-existent).

I ditched my Slingbox about 2+ years ago.
Without commercial breaks you can watch a replay in 1 hour.  Or just the 2nd half in a little over 30 mins.
SOmetimes it takes me most of a day, with 10-15 bites here and there, to watch a whole game, but I try to avoid such a disjointed approach.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 17, 2021, 02:47:00 AM
Cauley-Stein and Boban rarely play.
I think WCS contracted CV late March.
Not sure on Boban.  He's a tough matchup in limited minutes.
WCS a mobile Big.  Could cover Randle some.
Should be useful cogs.
Title: Five In A Row [WHEN YOU GET THEM DOWN, STOMP ON THEM]
Post by: chipstern on April 17, 2021, 07:46:54 AM
Great Game. 

Dallas was tough. 

We were TOUGHER.  You don't STOP Doncic, I mean he had 19 assists for fuck's sake, but all in all a quiet 22 points.  Likewise KP with 22 & 12, but seemed oddly unimpactful. 

PS: Remember Knicks fans, we signed JULIUS with the cap space we salted away by trading KP, Timmy and Courtney for expirng contracts.  And, AND, we converted Dennis Smith into Derrick Rose.  Oh, that cap space begat Marcus Morris which begat the draft pick which netted us Quickley [and the #32 pick in this year's draft], and then there is Dallas' #1 this year, so, Randle-Rose-Quickley-Dallas #1 pick-Detroit #2 pick-remaining cap space, so a pretty fair return for an ego tripping Latvian, and not the apocalyptic narrative some people continue to promulgate [hinthinthint]. 

Someone referred to this as the JULIUS RANDLE REVENGE TOUR.

Stomped on the Lakers and Pelicans with 30 + games, than saved his signature offensive game of the season for his hometown of Dallas.  44-10-7.  WOW. 

No Burks?  Thibs has RJ play 46 minutes, going off for 24-8-2.

And Payton & Rose combined for 21-8-11.

PS: Bonus.  Frank comes in for a cameo and calmly drains a corner three. 

PPS: Lots of splendid defensive moments--Noel's block was a fucking game changer.  Only had 9 turnovers but it seemed like more.  An area for improvement.   

Oh, Heat LOST.  Pacers LOST. Hornets LOST.  Knicks are now 30-27 [roll that around on your tongue], 9.5 games behind the first place Sixers, and 1/2 game behind the 30-26 Celtics and 30-26 Hawks.  We need to geld the Pelicans on Sunday, who will have Lonzo this time out...keep it going, or as Gordie Howe famously said, "When you get them down, STOMP ON THEM." 
Title: Meanwhile
Post by: chipstern on April 17, 2021, 08:16:45 AM
Celtics to waive Moritz Wagner to open spot for Jabari Parker

Shams Charania: The Celtics are waiving Moe Wagner to create roster space for Jabari Parker, sources tell @TheAthletic @Stadium . Wagner has averaged nearly six points and three rebounds this season, and was productive in his starts in Washington prior to being traded.

Parker — the former No. 2 overall pick — has agreed to a two-year deal with the Celtics, sources said. Parker, a career 14.8 points per game scorer, gives Boston some depth in frontcourt. – via Twitter ShamsCharania
Title: Small world afterall
Post by: bodiddley on April 17, 2021, 09:31:30 AM
We still got a crappy direct return for trading a serious asset.
Yes, we did well with the cap space, but could have had that form other deals most likely and a useful player or  two or draft pick.

Last I saw, Jabari was pretty immobile on defense.  He tore his ACL in 2014 and again in 2017 in the same knee.  Jabari is a Mormon and a smart dude.  His mother is from Tonga and Jabari's grandfather was converted to Mormonism by a missionary, leading to the family moving to Utah.  A few of his Tongan relatives have played int he NFL.  Bad luck with his knee.  Surprised he got a 2 year deal from BOS (was given up on by both ATl and SAC), but maybe limited guarantee on Y2.

Mo Vag has game.  Wonder what's holding him back.
Conditioning?  Motivation?  Maturity?  No idea, but he has skills.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 17, 2021, 10:14:25 AM
Julius looks so tired

And sure to pop that ACL soon

Have a great Saturday, all.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 17, 2021, 10:59:04 AM
With fatigue and overuse, the risk of injury increases.  Doesn't mean an injury will happen but the risk of injury certainly increases.  Any injury, not just ACL.  But these are the dopey games kid plays.  Of course kiid is stuck on it was cold the other day so global warming is a hoax type thinking.

And again, even without injury we could get the Harden Syndrome, wherein a terrific regular season is squandered when your best player is worn down for the playoffs.  Again, I don't guarantee that will be the outcome, but the risks of that or of  injury are elevated v. having a more rested Randle.  I think Rose averaged 37 mins per game for Thibs and then blew out his ACL late in G1 of the playoffs.  Killed that Bulls run.  Past decade plus most teams try to keep their stars fresh and healthy, with shorter minutes and/or games off for rest.  I'll vote for a healthy rested Randle with a lower injury risk and development of ObiT over a couple extra grind it out Wins.  Maybe Thibs anticipates finishing Top 6 and rest can be had by avoiding the playoff play-in.  Maybe Thibs is playing chess to my chinese checkers ...

Randle has compensated for the overwork, by being less active on D, often changing ends slowly and most notably driving less.  Look at the play of Randle early on the season and now.  He's become much more of a jump shooter post-AS break.  He was active on O and driving and playing hard in the 4Q crunch time v DAl, but that was mostly an exception to his last 20 games.

I think it's good that Randle has adjusted and found ways to rest some in game.
Lots of big offenders do that as defenders.  I also see Randle making a lot more mental mistakes the 2nd half of the season, which is likely attributable to tiredness.
Example near end of the half in OKC, Randle shot a top of the key J, his man Adams released, and Julius oddly wandered forward sort of towards the rebound where 2 Thunderers had Gibson blocked out.   Randle had no chance of getting the rebound and didn't even try to hunt it down, but just spaced out it seemed.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 17, 2021, 12:01:27 PM
Nice grab by Celts - JABARI PARKER
Title: Directly From My Heart To You
Post by: chipstern on April 17, 2021, 12:43:05 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 17, 2021, 09:31:30 AM
We still got a crappy direct return for trading a serious asset.
Yes, we did well with the cap space, but could have had that form other deals most likely and a useful player or  two or draft pick.

Last I saw, Jabari was pretty immobile on defense.  He tore his ACL in 2014 and again in 2017 in the same knee.  Jabari is a Mormon and a smart dude.  His mother is from Tonga and Jabari's grandfather was converted to Mormonism by a missionary, leading to the family moving to Utah.  A few of his Tongan relatives have played int he NFL.  Bad luck with his knee.  Surprised he got a 2 year deal from BOS (was given up on by both ATl and SAC), but maybe limited guarantee on Y2.

Mo Vag has game.  Wonder what's holding him back.
Conditioning?  Motivation?  Maturity?  No idea, but he has skills.

Little Richard

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06YqWV-W-Lw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06YqWV-W-Lw)

Ah

Aparently only...

DIRECT Returns

Count

A subtle distinction, no doubt. 

Julius Randle-Derrick Rose-Immaneul Quickley not direct enough for you?

We converted one set of assets into another, all solid contributors, and one ALL-STAR, are now playing above .500 and in playoff contention, a meaningful #1 and #2 pick on the docket, and one on the way in 2023.

But BoD proclaims it a bad deal. 

Knock yourself out, homie. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on April 17, 2021, 04:11:27 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 17, 2021, 10:59:04 AM
And again, even without injury we could get the Harden Syndrome, wherein a terrific regular season is squandered when your best player is worn down for the playoffs. 

lol, lol, wtf....
When did this happen? Did you watch and what.

*** big time choke artist tho...for sure, never seen an all-star give up in the clutch like JH! Cojones like green peas.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 17, 2021, 06:45:18 PM
Thank god we got Dennis Smith Jr in the KZ trade, or we never would have been able to get Rose ...

The point is that we got nada for trading KZ except cap space, when we could have gotten cap space and a solid player (starter or rotation piece). It would have been pretty dicey giving a max contract to an injured player, which devolved into an injured player who didn't want to be here.  But KZ was still an asset and had suitors, and we traded that asset for junkola.

Trading KZ has mostly worked out well, but the actual trade for KZ was poorly executed.  We could have been a step further along.  DAL has to hope KZ gets rolling by playoff time, or they have to start getting nervous about their investment.  KZ has shown flashes of brilliance on both ends.  But more often has been a step slow on defense and not that impactful on O. 

There was a short stretch where Doncic was setting up KZ in the 2-man game and KZ was killing it,  DAl has tried posting KZ on smaller guys. or KZ shooting deep 3's all game.  They don't seem to find a balance.  Very up and down season for KZ.  I thought post-AS he would be healthy and in form.

The KZ trade was rather high-risk stuff for both NYK and DAL.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 17, 2021, 06:53:22 PM
(https://preview.redd.it/cjzvl14n1st61.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=a2600910353a94e75ac969c57bdb47ba55df0cd2)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 17, 2021, 06:56:57 PM
And again, even without injury we could get the Harden Syndrome, wherein a terrific regular season is squandered when your best player is worn down for the playoffs.


Last three years Harden's playoff numbers werent too much down from reg. season.

About 30-7-4 from 32-8-5
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 17, 2021, 07:08:57 PM
Porzingis deal could be netting us a guy like Jared Butler, who some of us saw in the NCAA playing for champions BAYLOR.

IF we dont use that pick to move up from where WE select in round 1.

Bo discounts this.  Funny.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 17, 2021, 07:21:13 PM
Bo has also managed the impossible - getting me to defend KP

Diddley says KP has to get it going soon for Dallas

Well, over his last 5, Porzingis is

47-93
13-32
17-17

24.8/12.4/1.4/1.4


Overall -

21 15+ game scores (see BB Reference) in 36 appearances, including last 5 and 10 of last 11

Rivalling Randle.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 18, 2021, 12:12:19 AM
2-3 in the last 5 games.
Last 6 games, KZ's two weakest games were the two against the Knix that I've seen.  And while KZ's stats were fine in the last game, I described his effort as low impact.  Certainly didn't get anything going 4Q.  KZ needs to impact winning.
He needs to be able to take over stretches.  Max contract; 2nd star, etc. 

I've seen some Mavs here and there and seems KZ has one strong game and one blah game.  Settles for long 3's too much.  After Luka, seems Tim Jr and Josh Rich determine wining more than KZ.  Or at leats for much of this seaosn.  I'll try to catch more DAL.  I like RichJosh, Brunson and KZ.  And Luka is weirdly crazy and fun.  Just hasn't seemed like KZ is well integrated into the Mavs.  Then again Josh Rich is all up and down as well.  It's an interesting team, adding up to less than its potential.  The whole team needs to become more integrated and coordinated.  Their offense was great last year, they swapped Scurry 2.0 for JoshRich to get more defense/balance.  Been an inconsistent team on both ends this year.

I've seen them go this year from Luka-KZ 2-man game, to post-up KZ to long-ball KZ.  Not sure why they can't integrate all those aspects into every game.
Title: KP (tosses salads in Dallas)
Post by: carlos123 on April 18, 2021, 01:07:37 AM
Quote from: BoZizzley on April 18, 2021, 12:12:19 AM
I've seen them go this year from Luka-KZ 2-man game, to post-up KZ to long-ball KZ.  Not sure why they can't integrate all those aspects into every game.

Maybe because KP is a hard-to-coach, prone-to-missing-games prima Donna who can’t really hit the high notes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 18, 2021, 01:45:43 AM
Watched much of the 2nd half of SAS-PHX game.
Spurs started a frontcourt of Drew Eubanks-Luka Samanic-Keldon Johnson.
And proceeded to rout the cold Suns
Eubanks didn't miss a shot in a 13 & 13 effort.
Samanic didn't make a shot.

Vassell had a career game off the bench, looking quite smooth.  Sometimes easy to look good in a blowout, but 18 points, 4-6 on 3's, 2 blocks in 25 mins.  And played pretty solid D on Booker a few times.  Looked smooth getting his midrange shots off (2-3).First time I've seen him more than just spot minutes. 
39% on 3's for the season; but just 39% FG overall.  With half his shots 3's.

Lived up to his 3&D rep this game.
Too bad Vassell is a somewhat slight 6'5".  Cause I don't think he has any PG chops and he probably can't match up with bigger SF's.  I'd like to see if he can guard PG's.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 18, 2021, 01:50:32 AM
Kleber also has had an up and down year.
Just seems DAL hasn't cohered or found an identity this year.

I'm wondering if maybe Luka has some of the other Harden-Westbrook Syndrome -- despite brilliant individual effort, both scoring and passing, maybe its hard to play with a ball dominant guy who freelances so much.  Just a theory.

Could be just the weird year, along with CV and injuries.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 18, 2021, 01:16:30 PM
Catching the first half.  KZ having a rough time.  5 mins left in the 2Q: KZ 1-8 FG = 3 Pts + 4 Boards.  Team down 8.

Then KZ gets fouled on an alley oop attempt, but the refs didn't see the contact.
This annoys KZ, so suddenly he starts playing hard. 
Crashes the O-Boards and almost gets a putback with the foul.  Blocks an Elf layup attempt.  Cuts down the lane for an easy layup.  Defends a rim attack.  Then posts up for an easy score.  Where was this level of energy/interest earlier?   A good sequence or two but need to focus all game.

KZ looked great for a 2 minute outburst on both ends and the lead is cut to 2.
Then makes a good contest on Randle and bombs in a long 3.  So real nice sequence from KZ, doing it all and having a big impact at the end of the half.

Time for a new Knick game,  1:PM start,
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on April 18, 2021, 05:23:18 PM
saw the 4Q and OT today- Nice win for you guys
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 18, 2021, 05:24:57 PM
But the minutes....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 18, 2021, 06:11:48 PM
OT games are like cheat days on your diet.

We know Zo Ball will want to come here on the if you can’t beat em, join em principle, but the question is would we want a guy so ineffective against a team as good as we are?

Maybe, but probably not.

That Brunson kid sounds nice. Kind of a legacy player for what it’s worth. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on April 18, 2021, 06:18:15 PM
Well, I don't get to see Ball much. I know he's good, young, exceptional playmaker, etc.

But right now is he better than D Rose?

And would he be a better point guard than Rose next year?

Just asking.....

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 18, 2021, 07:49:31 PM
Nice challenge for D Rose - lets just sat that - if Leon chooses Derrick as the starter next year - to be the equal to the '21-'22 L Ball.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 18, 2021, 07:53:00 PM
Ball played bad today?  Are you sure?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 18, 2021, 08:16:17 PM
5 points, 7 boards (not bad), 3 dimes on 2-8 from the field. I think that’s a direct quote from the color guy at the close of the game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 18, 2021, 08:17:42 PM
Ball outperformed Payton but not Quickley.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 18, 2021, 08:27:06 PM
Julius played great with Zion defending him.
Title: It just got better
Post by: Kam on April 18, 2021, 08:30:27 PM
Reggie Bullock hitting that shot was big.  Julius Randle made a three in the closing moments  4 weeks ago to force OT but we lost that game.  Reggie sending us into OT and then winning the game.... such a great feeling.  I was going to say after the Dallas win over KP that it doesn't get any better but....
Title: I'm damn sure!
Post by: lesterluv on April 18, 2021, 09:24:13 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on April 18, 2021, 07:53:00 PM
Ball played bad today?  Are you sure?

lol, Lonzo shat on the floor
You licking it up I guess

Nice win 4 our boys!

I mean he looked pure scrub throughout the game, and then there's this...
https://sports.yahoo.com/pelicans-lonzo-ball-mistakes-helps-210700663.html?src=rss (https://sports.yahoo.com/pelicans-lonzo-ball-mistakes-helps-210700663.html?src=rss)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on April 18, 2021, 09:39:16 PM
Have to figure that at some point, and with a break or two, a generational talent like Lonzo Ball will participate in a playoff game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 18, 2021, 10:15:14 PM
Kid will drag this all out and do his little pee-pee dance if the Knicks do eventually sign him. If the loot isn’t too crazy, I won’t hate it anywhere near as much as I do Kid.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 18, 2021, 10:17:49 PM
Good job Kings!
Title: Hate?
Post by: carlos123 on April 19, 2021, 12:35:37 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 18, 2021, 10:15:14 PM
Kid will drag this all out and do his little pee-pee dance if the Knicks do eventually sign him. If the loot isn’t too crazy, I won’t hate it anywhere near as much as I do Kid.

Why would you hate poor Chamaco?

He’s just another delusional trumper, alas one of many.

The poor thing is probably foaming at the mouth that goddess Ivanka posted a picture taking the vaccine.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 19, 2021, 02:01:56 AM
Ball & Ingram were mostly no-shows.
Zion couldn't guard Randle at all; Z also stumbled around and lost the ball a ton, not sure how he only has 2 recorded turnovers, seemed closer to 8.
James Johnson was significantly better guarding Julius, But JJ couldn't put ball in basket. 

Zion is a mofo on the O-boards, but handling the ball outside as he did on about half the possessions was just a total waste of time.  He doesn't have a reliable 3-shot, doesn't drive from that far out, and his passing was perfunctory at best.  In other words, he's no Julius Randle, who has the skill-set to unleash multiple options when he handles far out.

Reg Bullox was a hero.  Scored a few key baskets when Randle sat and NYK offense was shaky mid-game.  Had one terrible late game long 3 in transition which he rushed and was an airball, but redeemed himself with that game-tying 3.
Terrible defensive blunder from ZoBall.  In the huddle SVG should have repeated over and over "Guard the 3 point line, let them get a 2 if they want, Guard the 3-point line".  And yet Zo gets suckered towards the lane by Rose's drive and closes out late.  If he just stuck with Reg, the pass wouldn't be there and Rose would have to go for the layup, or make a tough pass elsewhere.

Kiid again living the context-free life.  Thibs actually was somewhat careful with Randle's minutes and gave Julius a mid-1Q 3-min breather and again mid/late 3Q.
So 1Q & 3Q, Randle got a 3 blow, 2-3 minutes back on and then the quarter break.
If ObiT did anything he might have gotten some limited 2Q run.  But the 4Q was too tight -- tied or with Knix down -- to take Randle out / put ObiT in.  47 mins is a lot for any human, but if you need to scratch out an OT W, that's what you do.

Again, some of this is on ObiT.  Show something in your time out there.  Play some decent D, pose an O threat, make more than move-it-along type passes.

Anyway, Reg Rose Randle were keys.  Rose, like reg, made timely key hoops.
Randle was struggling a bit, and then abused Zion.  Zion with the wrong approach.  He would give Randle some space (including too much for 3's), and then body Randle after 2 or 3 dribbles before a shot.  Body Randle early, fight for every inch and don't let him get near the paint, then backoff when Julius goes to shoot from mid-range.  Zion too small to actually bother Julius' shot.  Bodying Randle late just made for fouls, with Randle already within range.

Found it funny when Knox faked a 3 and drove on Zion, then tried to bump Zion who doesn't budge and Knox got blocked as he stumble-shoots. 

As for Zion, one of then least impressive 34/9/5 games I've seen.  You've got Ball and Bledsoe, why does SVG have Zion with the ball way out doing nada?  Run some PnR's with Zion setting some bigass screens, or have Zion post.  Make folks stop Zion down low.  Have Adams screen for Zion inside and Zion catch passes on the move where he's an absolute freight train.  Zion 25' out with a live dribble is useless.

Was a game of runs, but Pels choked away the game.
Where was Ingram?  Isn't he supposed ot be good?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 19, 2021, 02:29:07 AM
Nawlins seems to come up with pone great rim-block per game.
Kudos to father Noel.

Didn't see it, but KZ 3-14 FG (1-7 on 3's) and a team worst -24 in a blowout loss to Kings.  Likely 3 or more of those 3-point misses were the long variety KZ favors.  TyH with just 3 points, 2 assists in 16 mins and a team worst -23.  Not easy to be -23 when your team wins by 14.
Terence Davis 9-12 (5-5) for 23 points in 30 minutes.  Nice player.

Bogdanovich killin' it in April:
22 / 5 / 4  . . .   51% / 53% / 88%
8 of 10 games over 20 Pts.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 19, 2021, 03:35:43 AM
The Knicks convinced KZ he can’t play, so now he’s tossing salads on the court. Vs the Kings he dropped a tomato.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 19, 2021, 06:45:30 AM
Oddly KZ went 3-8 for 9 points in the 1Q.
Then didn't score again, going 0-2 in each of the last 3Q's.
Played 37 mins.  1-12 on outside shots. 
Maybe they need a crouton trail so K can find his way to the paint ...

Only watched the first half of the 2Q, bvut TyH was playing well.  Had two nice PnR alley-oops in which DAL fouled so tyH didn't get any counting stats.  They really should have counted the Mietu tip in which occurred right after Redick shoved him in the back.  TyH also had a steal lined up but let the bad Mav pass go out of bounds.   And he front rimmed a floater off a good drive.  So he had a good 6 mins without any boxscore to show for it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 19, 2021, 08:19:12 AM
KP and Harmless got into a scrap.  Funny.  Porzingis seemed to wish to seat away No like a fly.

Sac had lost 10 straight.  Off game for Mavs, who will be fine but are a player short.

(Sure could use the formerly unheralded H Barnes about now)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 19, 2021, 10:37:48 AM
Knicks doing a nice job avoiding the play-in games.

Face Milwaukee in a  6 v 3 matchup if season ended today.

Most would expect the Heat to take our spot but if we get the 7 at least we get a home play-in game (where we are 18-10) followed by another home play in should we lose the first one.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 19, 2021, 12:28:00 PM
Yeah, I was going to say that there was nothing that got KZ mad.  But then there was the minor kerfluffle with KZ (Hark pushed KZ in the back as he was getting an entry pass, foul called, Hark started talking, put his face close to KZ's chin, KZ pushed him back, double techs).  Then the next few plays Hark manhandled KZ twice without getting called for fouls (both looked like fouls to me).

No idea what was said, but I thought it was smart of Hark, since DAL was down by about 17 and needed a kick in the pants.  And instead of igniting KZ, it did propel DAL back into contention.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 19, 2021, 02:02:28 PM
Lotta stars missing games.
UTah - Mitchell/Gobert/Conley v. Lakes missing LeBJ & AD

MIA missing Bulter v. Nets missing Harden and KD lasted 1Q before gimping away.
Kind of dispiriting.

The UTA-LAL game came down to a Schroder v. Clarkson duel in the 4Q.

Up 4 with 2 mins left, Kyrie proceeded to miss 3 straight shots, leading to Bam making a buzzer beater for the W.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 19, 2021, 04:14:16 PM
Still the best player in the league, if not Harden.

Julius just may be most valuable for this season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 19, 2021, 06:02:49 PM
Looking like Mike James to the Nyets, perhaps by Thursday.
Title: Schedule Watch
Post by: Kam on April 19, 2021, 07:08:55 PM
Chicago @ Boston
Houston @ Miami

Longshot chance for our playoff position to improve tonight, but looks like the opposite is more likely.

Tomorrow we get Charlotte and then Atlanta the day after on a home B2B.   
Atlanta game is huge and they won't be any more rested as they play Orlando right before us.

Simple for Knicks:  Just keep winning... don't look past the hornets.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 19, 2021, 08:10:20 PM
Charlotte played V Carey one game

Went for 21-6

2 quick fouls next outing.

Could see anyone from that roster.
Title: Destiny
Post by: chipstern on April 19, 2021, 08:31:21 PM
Quote from: Kam on April 19, 2021, 07:08:55 PM
Chicago @ Boston
Houston @ Miami

Longshot chance for our playoff position to improve tonight, but looks like the opposite is more likely.

Tomorrow we get Charlotte and then Atlanta the day after on a home B2B.   
Atlanta game is huge and they won't be any more rested as they play Orlando right before us.

Simple for Knicks:  Just keep winning... don't look past the hornets.

WORD

Our Destiny Is In Our Hands

The Pelicans on Sunday?

Our game to LOSE. 

Knicks teams of the past twenty years? 

We lose that game EVERY TIME. 

Grit.

No quit. 

I want us to earn the 4-though-6 spot. 

But tell you what, no matter how it plays out, I could not be prouder of these cats. 

I could not be prouder of JULIUS. 

Had his customary 4 turnovers, and only hit 2-8 from trey, 11-28 total, but when he did hit, it MEANT SOMETHING. 

Hit 9-10 FTs.  Had 10 assists.  TEN FUCKING ASSISTS.  And 5 steals.  Oh, and 33 points.  In 47 minutes. 

And DERRICK.  If that wasn't the D-Rose of 22, well, Derrick at 32 in 35 minutes had probably his best game as a Knick, and I have not had a feeling of secuirty looking at our PG on the floor since Jason Kidd's one and done during our last winning season. 

And I mean, get well soon, Mitchell, but the Nerlin-Taj combo?  WINNING HOOPS: A combined 18 points, 22 rebounds, 2 assists, 4 blocks and a steal. 

We lost to the Nets and Celtics by a single hoop. 

Then we bounce back with an overtime victory over the Grizz.  And the win over the Lakers was really a turning point. 

If we can stay healthy, particularly ROSE, we can hang with anyone. 

THIBS has the team hitting on all cylinders, and even when the fruit ain't falling, 95% of the time our D keeps us in the mix. 

The Hornets and the Hawks.  Probably the most meaningful games of the season.  They have WHAT WE WANT.  The Hawks in particular are a really really tough matchup, and even without Ball and Hayward, the Hornets have some real winning players such as Rozier and Bridges and are  dangerous as a MF. 

Knowing that there is no quit in THIBS's Knicks, I'll live with what happens, no matter the outcome.  Nothing is written in stone, but for the first time, seemingly since man first walked erect, we are playing meaningful games in April. 

I'm surely selfish enough to want...MORE. 

But seeing as how I was deemed bold for calling them 33-39, and they are now 31-27 with 14 games to go...could we shoot for 38-34?  40-32? 

Stay tuned. 

Go Knicks. 
Title: Re: Destiny
Post by: carlos123 on April 19, 2021, 10:08:53 PM
Quote from: chipstern on April 19, 2021, 08:31:21 PM

I'm surely selfish enough to want...MORE. 

But seeing as how I was deemed bold for calling them 33-39, and they are now 31-27 with 14 games to go...could we shoot for 38-34?  40-32? 

Stay tuned. 

Go Knicks.

I confess again to not being a TPP, but I also want MORE.

And Boston (minus Kemba and Smart) lost the the Bulls minus Zac.

We really need to beat Charlotte and Atlanta, and #4 is OURS.

Haven't been so excited about the fucking KNICKS for a very looooooooong time!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on April 19, 2021, 10:22:13 PM
Just saw Curry (and the Warriors) beat the 76ers.

You can see exactly why Dallas is shitting bricks about the new playoffs.

NO ONE wants to play Golden State in a one-game series.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 20, 2021, 12:08:49 AM
Fuck Dallas 💩
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 20, 2021, 03:14:26 AM
Quote
Had his customary 4 turnovers, and only hit 2-8 from trey, 11-28 total, but when he did hit, it MEANT SOMETHING.

Hit 9-10 FTs.  Had 10 assists.  TEN FUCKING ASSISTS.  And 5 steals.  Oh, and 33 points.  In 47 minutes.

Yep, terrific off-shooting game for Randle.
Exactly what you want to do when your shot is a little off.
Get to the FT line a ton, compromise the D and pass off for profit.
And when your shot starts falling, milk the streak/matchup (with Zion).
When Randle got going, he was killing it for a while, getting the Knix in front.
I was surprised when I saw in the box that Randle was 2-8 on 3's, because he was so good in that midrange stretch.

You can see that the Pels really need some vet leadership.
Zion, Ball, Ingram, Jax Hayes, Kira Rook aren't leaders.
Closest they have is Steven Adams who is Mr. Tough Guy but not vocal.
Bledsoe probably their closest approximation, but he's a 31 year old journeyman , rather average PG with frequent health issues.  Mistake-prone.

So either import a hard-nosed vet or Ingram/Zion need to take over.  Really Ingram or Ball should dominate for now, with Zion groomed for later.  But this garbage of catering to Zion by letting him handle the ball beyond the 3-point line is garbage that is going to make Zion just more entitled and doesn't benefit the team.  Maybe you have talent but you still have to earn it.  SVG catering to Zion's desires doesn't bode well for the future. 

In the Knix game, I couldn't figure out how they were trying to use Ball or Ingram.  Couldn't discern what their roles were.  Zion's role was absurd.  Zion beyond the 3-point line is a boon to the opponents.


Kyrie might make my Top 20.
#1 in terms of showing up when he feels like it.
Steals about $400K every time he takes a personal day.
Title: A rose by any other position ...
Post by: bodiddley on April 20, 2021, 03:31:52 AM
Derrick Rose leading all Rookies in PER:
http://www.espn.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/rookies

Derrick Rose 9th among Power Forwards in PER (just ahead of Julius Randle)
http://www.espn.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pf

D Rose just 22nd in PER among PG's:
http://www.espn.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pg

Derrick Rose a multi-positional, multi-generational threat!

Edit: that ESPN rookie list is a mess, with RJB and Blake Griffin on it!
Title: Zion, btw, 3rd in league in per, 8th in scoring, shooting 60%.one entitled bitch
Post by: lesterluv on April 20, 2021, 07:26:54 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 20, 2021, 03:14:26 AM

 Really Ingram or Ball should dominate for now, with Zion groomed for later. But this garbage of catering to Zion by letting him handle the ball beyond the 3-point line is garbage that is going to make Zion just more entitled and doesn't benefit the team.  Maybe you have talent but you still have to earn it.  SVG catering to Zion's desires doesn't bode well for the future. 

Kyrie might make my Top 20.
#1 in terms of showing up when he feels like it.
Steals about $400K every time he takes a personal day.

Nobody hates those entitled darkies like Bo hates those entitled darkies!! His panties get B U N C H E D lol, lol, lol....


The experiment of playing Zion Williamson at point guard has been all reward and no risk for the New Orleans Pelicans. Until recently the strategy was used only sporadically but with Lonzo Ball and Nickeil Alexander-Walker unavailable for the past several games Stan Van Gundy decided to give Williamson free reign of the offense against the Philadelphia 76ers. The result was a game-changing, victory-sealing 37 points, 15 rebounds, and 8 assists from Williamson. After Williamson’s performances against the Cleveland Cavaliers and Sacramento Kings the Pelicans should continue the experiment regardless of who is available to play. The 28 shots and 15 rebounds against the 76ers were both career highs for Williamson. It was the second game in a row that Williamson posted six or more assists. He has scored 30 or more points in the last three games and five of the past seven. It should also be noted Brandon Ingram has 61 points on 52% shooting in the past two games.Williamson as the lead ball-handler allows him to develop his game further while leading a nearly unstoppable offense. Williamson with the ball at the top of the key keeps the ball moving as well as any other guard on the roster. He is a willing passer, just look at the very first play in Cleveland. As the defense collapses on his drive, Williamson finds the perfect pass to the corner. Should that shot not fall, Williamson is in a great position to grab a rebound or seal a defender for an entry pass. In the past three games the Pelicans are in the top ten for field goal shooting percentage, offensive rebounds, and first in total rebounds.
Title: Chill Dawg
Post by: chipstern on April 20, 2021, 12:43:18 PM
One toke over the line, dude. 

(https://www.pocho.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/toke-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Chill Dawg
Post by: elephant on April 20, 2021, 12:56:13 PM
Quote from: chipstern on April 20, 2021, 12:43:18 PM
One toke over the line, dude. 

Absolutely.

If you can make an argument or an observation that he's using the term "entitlement" to deal just with black athletes, then make the point.

Otherwise, this is drive-by bullshit.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 20, 2021, 01:54:43 PM
Don't want it to turn into Harden in Houston.
Or to a lesser extent KZ in NY.
Where the star is calling the shots and can't be reigned in.

After BKY hired Nash but before the season started, Kyrie declared that the Nets don't need a coach and he looks at it as Kyrie can act as coach one night, Durant another.   Maybe let Nash coach some too on the days Kyrie decides not to show up ...

Despite some impressive stats (34 / 9 / 5 I think it was), I thought Point Zion had a pretty poor game v. NYK.  And none of his teammates played well either.  My summation: Zion was no Julius Randle.  Will try to catch some more NOPe games -- can at least scout Zo Ball some more and interested in what Jax Hayes and Kira can do.

Les specializes in being an asshole.  He wears it well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 20, 2021, 01:57:54 PM
Don't want it to turn into Harden in Houston.


Harden was excellent in Houston
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 20, 2021, 02:01:28 PM
Seems to me that the Knix are just better prepared and better coached than most teams we face.  NYK have an identity and impose their will/style on the game.  Stretches of games often get ugly, because the Knix play D and play physical and muck things up.  Knix don't really have a closer, aren't that good at shooting 3's, yet keep games close and grind out wins.  Knix win with teamwork and hard work.  That's what defense really is, getting everyone to buy in and play together and play hard.  It's really the opposite approach to kiid's favored out-score'em philosophy.
A much different and more interesting season than I expected.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 20, 2021, 02:04:38 PM
Harden was a defensive laughingstock for much of his time in HOU.

Playoff Harden was kind of the opposite of Playoff Rondo.

Harden couldn't co-exist with Chris Paul or Westbrook or Capela, etc.

The entire offense revolved around Harden up top pounding the ball as much as he wanted.  I wouldn't want to be his teammate either.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 20, 2021, 02:11:37 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 20, 2021, 02:01:28 PM
Seems to me that the Knix are just better prepared and better coached than most teams we face.  NYK have an identity and impose their will/style on the game.  Stretches of games often get ugly, because the Knix play D and play physical and muck things up.  Knix don't really have a closer, aren't that good at shooting 3's, yet keep games close and grind out wins.  Knix win with teamwork and hard work.  That's what defense really is, getting everyone to buy in and play together and play hard.  It's really the opposite approach to kiid's favored out-score'em philosophy.
A much different and more interesting season than I expected.

Kiid's philosophy is to have ENOUGH offense.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 20, 2021, 03:11:50 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 20, 2021, 02:01:28 PM
Seems to me that the Knix are just better prepared and better coached than most teams we face.  NYK have an identity and impose their will/style on the game.  Stretches of games often get ugly, because the Knix play D and play physical and muck things up.  Knix don't really have a closer, aren't that good at shooting 3's, yet keep games close and grind out wins.  Knix win with teamwork and hard work.  That's what defense really is, getting everyone to buy in and play together and play hard.  It's really the opposite approach to kiid's favored out-score'em philosophy.
A much different and more interesting season than I expected.

We’ve been hitting .390 from three as a team lately. How good did you expect us to be at shooting 3’s? How good is good?
Title: Les
Post by: carlos123 on April 20, 2021, 03:18:46 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 20, 2021, 01:54:43 PM

Les specializes in being an asshole.  He wears it well.

Les can be... temperamental, but he’s still my favorite doggie.

Les, good boy!!! 🐕
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 20, 2021, 03:32:24 PM
Knix are 29th in 3Pt FGA's for a reason.
We take open ones (mostly created by Randle) which boosts the %.
Except for Quickly, NYK rarely take 3's early in the shot clock.
Randle and RJB have been shooting 3's very well lately, probably unsustainably well.  At the end of games, Burks has probably been our best option.
But we take turns at it.  Randle, Quix, Bullox, RJB.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 20, 2021, 04:28:40 PM
The entire offense revolved around Harden up top pounding the ball as much as he wanted.  I wouldn't want to be his teammate either.


James played EIGHT full seasons with the Rockets.

Was an all-time great for that organization.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 20, 2021, 05:28:06 PM
10.7 and 13.5 mil salaries remain for WILLIAMSON in New Orleans.

This low figure enables the Pels to surround him with available talent as they march toward playoffs

Other remaining holdovers:

Ingram     29   31   33   36
Adams      17   18
Bledsoe     18 (will try to deal)
Hayes       5.4     6.8
Lewis Jr     3.8    4.0    5.7
Alex-Walker   3.3   5.0
Iwundu      1.8


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 20, 2021, 06:19:44 PM
Don’t really see them spending much money to keep Ball considering their other needs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 20, 2021, 06:46:20 PM
Give the reins to Lewis - that is the plan.

I guess they werent offered any picks for Lonzo - or they really thought they could make the playoffs (currently 4 games back with 15 left)

I think in order that they do not get NADA (for him) there will be a sign and trade re:  Ball - and it could be with NYK
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 20, 2021, 08:17:06 PM
By the way, even though I think Julius may be league MVP, I think Williamson is the better player.
Title: A question for Fac
Post by: carlos123 on April 20, 2021, 08:44:46 PM
Quote from: Fac on April 20, 2021, 06:19:44 PM
"Free and fair elections. Statehood for PR & DC".

Free and fair elections? Absolutely!
Statehood for DC? Absolutely!
Statehood for PR? Don't you think you should ask the Puerto-Ricans first?

PS-Just trying to name a resident of Puerto Rico like an Anglo. I shouda used Boricuas, Puertorros or even Puertorriqueños if I wanted to sound official.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 20, 2021, 08:58:24 PM
https://www.nba.com/player/1630175/undefined
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 20, 2021, 10:18:40 PM
7 in a row!

Reggie Bullock is our 3 and D guy
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 20, 2021, 10:20:27 PM
NOBODY in Knicks history has ever avg at least 20 PPG, 10 RPG, and 6 APG in a season.

Julius Randle season stats:
23.7 PPG
10.5 RPG
6.1 APG

The Knicks have been around since 1946.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 20, 2021, 10:50:22 PM
It’s nice to be a game and a half up on Miami at this point, very nice. Tonight was the night we hit my number. It’s all gravy from here on out as far as I’m concerned.

If PR would rather, they can declare independence. The current state of affairs is definitely working against the island. Fully in or fully out would each be a better basis for the relationship.
Title: Puerto Rico
Post by: carlos123 on April 20, 2021, 11:22:57 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 20, 2021, 10:50:22 PM
It’s nice to be a game and a half up on Miami at this point, very nice. Tonight was the night we hit my number. It’s all gravy from here on out as far as I’m concerned.

If PR would rather, they can declare independence. The current state of affairs is definitely working against the island. Fully in or fully out would each be a better basis for the relationship.

Fac, you may be right, I don’t know. My point is that they, not you or me or even Chamaco, should decide for themselves. As far as I know, they’ve been asked a couple of times and decided to remain an Estado Libre Asociado, maybe the no-federal-taxes status is a powerful incentive.

PS. KP tosses salads in Dallas. Go Kamster!!!
Title: NEXT MAN UP
Post by: chipstern on April 21, 2021, 12:46:48 AM
Quote from: Kam on April 20, 2021, 10:18:40 PM
7 in a row!

Reggie Bullock is our 3 and D guy

Wonder if BoD noticed. 

Think we'd have been better with Deni Avdija than the lay down the THREE POINT Law Firm of Bullock [.401%] & Burke [.408%] Esquire, and their junior partner at the WINGS, R.J. Barrett [.383%]

Frank Ntilikina [.474%]
Julius Randle [.405%]
Kevin Knox [.395%]
Immanuel Quickley [.375%]
Derrick Rose [.368%]

That we top the league in defending the three, while being surprisingly efficient with the minimal number of threes we launch....

That Charlotte nuked us from trey in the first half, scoring 66 points, and then we emerged from the locker room with Kindly Uncle Tom, and just sat on their fucking faces to the tune of 31 points, is simply unreal.  When was the last time we had a coaching staff that could devise adjustments on the fly like Tom and Johnny and Kenny & COMPANY? 

Oh yeah, they were without Lonzo and Gordon? 

Well, we were without Mitchell and Alec. 

HELLO. 

Since the comeback against the Grizz and our relative domination of the vulnerable Lakers [who'd beaten the Nyets the night before, right?], WE HAVE BEEN A DIFFERENT TEAM.   
We switched into another gear on DEFENSE.  The energy and camradarie is palpable, electric.  DEFENSE BEING A TEAM PSYCHE. 

And while our BIG THREE of Randle, Barrett and Rose is not as sexy as Durant, Harden and Irving, I think it is fair to say we have a big three. 

And NEXT MAN UP?

Thibs ain't kidding. 

Mitchell went down, and Nerlens and Taj stepped it up [10-19-2-2-4]

Alex went down and RJ, Rose & Reggie stepped it up [57 points], on a night when much of what Our Walking Triple Double Julius did was not box score fodder [HoHum....16-10-7-2], but THE CAPTAIN was impactful in ever way shape and form, the skeleton key which weaponmizes and unlocks our ball movement and defense. 

DAMN





Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 21, 2021, 01:29:43 AM
Avdija has been a rook disappointed.  I believed he'd go Top 5 and don't think i even saw a video of him.  Was considered NBA ready, with an all-around game.  When I've seen WIZ (not for a month or more now), Deni has been passive, just a non-factor.  They might want to slide him to the GLeague and let him hone his skills and boost his confidence there for a few weeks.  Is the GLeague still playing this year?

TyH was the pick.  And he would have boosted our team in many ways.  TyH does a lot of smart hustle plays, and adjusts according to what his team needs any particular game. Really enjoy his game/style/smarts.

If we had drafted a Bridges instead of Knox and tyH over ObiT, this Knick team could be legit Top 4 in the East and dangerous.
______________________________

Reg Bollocks has been terrific this year.  Our best two-way player.  Reg and Mitch/Noel/Taj have been the core of our top NBA defense all season.  While Reg has had a sweet stroke.  There's a reason that Randle seeks him out over and over.  Shame on those who wanted Burks to start over Bullox.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 21, 2021, 01:58:24 AM
Early 1Q (first 3 mins) oddities:
- Noel fakes a handoff and drives from the 3-point line, gets stripped, gets it back.
- Knix miss a 3, Noel gets the rebound among 2 Hornets, Bridges comes to the paint to check things out, lingers, takes a step back as though he's guarding someone, Noel passes to a wide open Elf, Bridges has an uh-oh moment.  Elf cans a 3.  Poor court awareness by Bridges.
- Randle feeling spry tries a fake drive/step back 3.
Title: Re: Puerto Rico
Post by: facilitatorn on April 21, 2021, 02:51:51 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on April 20, 2021, 11:22:57 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 20, 2021, 10:50:22 PM
It’s nice to be a game and a half up on Miami at this point, very nice. Tonight was the night we hit my number. It’s all gravy from here on out as far as I’m concerned.

If PR would rather, they can declare independence. The current state of affairs is definitely working against the island. Fully in or fully out would each be a better basis for the relationship.

Fac, you may be right, I don’t know. My point is that they, not you or me or even Chamaco, should decide for themselves. As far as I know, they’ve been asked a couple of times and decided to remain an Estado Libre Asociado, maybe the no-federal-taxes status is a powerful incentive.

PS. KP tosses salads in Dallas. Go Kamster!!!

They did decide for themselves just last year.

http://ballotpedia.org/Puerto_Rico_Statehood_Referendum_(2020) (http://ballotpedia.org/Puerto_Rico_Statehood_Referendum_(2020))

Statehood it is once the crackers get out of the way.

Go Kamster indeed!
Title: Missing the forest for the trees
Post by: Kam on April 21, 2021, 03:01:55 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 21, 2021, 01:29:43 AM


If we had drafted a Bridges instead of Knox and tyH over ObiT, this Knick team could be legit Top 4 in the East and dangerous.


Yes but you should stop mourning the team we could've had and simply enjoy the team we do have. 

We have Knox and Obi not Bridges and Tyh.   No team bats 1.000 in the draft.

We also have Randle who is playing better than anyone ever could've predicted.  We won 2019 free agency while everyone scoffed at our Summer of PFs.

Well we got Randle and turned Morris into Quickley.   Taj was also signed that Summer.  Not a bad trio of big men.  And also Reggie!!!

We can't ignore how good we have done in free agency recently either.  Nerl the Pearl No "L".   Alec Burks. 

Don't fixate on what could've been in the draft or why we didn't sign Christian Wood or Bogdan.

Things worked out one way in the draft and another way in free agency coaching and player development. 

Enjoy this!!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 21, 2021, 03:58:39 AM
Quickley was insane in the first half against the Hos.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 21, 2021, 06:04:56 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on April 20, 2021, 04:28:40 PM
James played EIGHT full seasons with the Rockets.

THREE 1st round exits.

Quote from: kidcarter8 on April 20, 2021, 08:17:06 PM
By the way, even though I think Julius may be league MVP, I think Williamson is the better player.


Not sure what you're basing this on, but Julius crushed Zion last game.
Zion should watch how Bridges and Martin body up on Randle, bottling him up and not fouling.

Journeyman Austin Rivers signs with DEN.  Murray crippled, Montemorris dinged up.    Good op for Rivers.  Compazzo is feisty but only 5'10" or so.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 21, 2021, 06:23:37 AM
Am enjoying this.
But to become a playoff mainstay and a contender takes a lot going right.
Hard to do when you whiff on high picks such as franc, Knox, and possibly ObiT.
RJB is solid.  Quix a very good late pick.  And we lucked out with Mitch.
So those nice late picks make up for the iffy high picks.

We have done fairly well in FA.
But how long can Taj and Rose hold up?

I think our trades have been up and down.
We got very little for KZ.  But flipped Jr. Smith for Rose (really a vet dump by DET).
MaMo played great so we were able to extract a late 1st.  Any other trades of note?
Title: Knicks Big 3
Post by: bodiddley on April 21, 2021, 06:29:29 AM
Rose got going; then Quix; 3Q was RJB time.
Don't know why CHA kept doubling Randle, when Bridges and Martin were doing a solid job.  Double to prevent a Randle 2 and give up a NYK 3.  Seemed awfully counterproductive.

Whenever I see the Ho's, Martin seems to be everywhere.  Not just the twin brother phenomenon, but Cody Martin is one tough active mofo.

Extremely few fouls/FT's.  CHA was 3-8 FT for the game.

Missing Mitch and Burks is hardly the equivalent of missing Hayward, LaMelo and Monk.  But Chip's rah-rah mode is in overdrive. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on April 21, 2021, 07:00:55 AM
Julius Randle, trying to think of a similar instance of a knick PF becoming a star after an underwhelming start to a career. Coach-player relationship? Have to hope he stays healthy. Quite the FA pick-up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 21, 2021, 08:23:55 AM
Pretty sure I projected on this board - along with taking the over on the laughable 22 win total Vegas had laid out for us (Bankshot had the under) - that NYK would run off a nice win streak of 5, 6, 7+ games at some point.

This HAS been a strange season, with all the games missed by key personnel (and Knicks seeming to be one of the lease affected teams).  But happy to take the easy cash.

Now.....

where do we want to sit for playoff rounds?

Vs Milwaukee - 7 games?

7 seed, where we'd get some warmup action before facing Brooklyn?

Or do we want the 4-5 so the chances of a conference semifinals is greater?

Give me B or C.  Stay away from Bucks.
Title: Re: Chill Dawg
Post by: lesterluv on April 21, 2021, 09:46:46 AM
Quote from: elephant on April 20, 2021, 12:56:13 PM
Quote from: chipstern on April 20, 2021, 12:43:18 PM
One toke over the line, dude. 

Absolutely.

If you can make an argument or an observation that he's using the term "entitlement" to deal just with black athletes, then make the point.

Otherwise, this is drive-by bullshit.

drive-by bullshit, lmao, PLANTATION MASTER BO has a long history, a decade of observation and example, more codewords and dogwhistles than Lee Atwater in his prime...but no worries, Kyrie and Zion sure don't need my help!!!

https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore/_/gameId/401307676 (https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore/_/gameId/401307676)
* and if you feel more comfortable with just "butt stupid," that's ok too
*** and just be really, really happy Derek Chauvin was convicted cause otherwise, his inevitable "advice" on how black NBA players should comport themselves in the aftermath of such events would have been truly excruciating

Go Knicks!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on April 21, 2021, 10:41:32 AM
Quote
Pretty sure I projected on this board - along with taking the over on the laughable 22 win total Vegas had laid out for us (Bankshot had the under) - that NYK would run off a nice win streak of 5, 6, 7+ games at some point.

I thought this was going to be a shitshow of a year for the entire NBA due to covid, playing with no preseason, playing outside of the bubble etc. And for the post-season bubble teams with no off-season to speak of, the challenged would be greater getting ready for the season and probably dealing with a lot of injuries as players changed their training routines. And that played out.

As to the knicks prediction I picked a somewhat artificial low for fun and to see if anyone would go under my #. Nope no takers, but as I recall most here had the knicks at 24-ish. IMO new coach, young team, covid challenges etc would be challenging, and a low 20 # was reasonable, but to the knicks credit, they far exceeded my low expectations and have played better than I expected. But I would also view their successes in context. But I'd enjoy it no matter what. 
Title: Two key plays
Post by: Kam on April 21, 2021, 03:28:18 PM
Elfrid made a couple of boneheaded plays last night because he was too stubborn to give RJ the ball.

Reminder:  RJ was red hot at this time 4-4 from the field in the 3rd

On this play (https://streamable.com/eu33cy) Clyde sees RJ open downcourt and Breen sounds upset that Elf didn't give him the ball opting for himself.

 THE VERY NEXT PLAY (https://streamable.com/xln04u) RJ is practically begging for the ball and instead Elf barrels in for a charging foul.

Thibs sent Elfrid to the bench after this and I don't think he came back in the game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on April 21, 2021, 05:11:46 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on April 21, 2021, 10:41:32 AM
Quote
Pretty sure I projected on this board - along with taking the over on the laughable 22 win total Vegas had laid out for us (Bankshot had the under) - that NYK would run off a nice win streak of 5, 6, 7+ games at some point.

I thought this was going to be a shitshow of a year for the entire NBA due to covid, playing with no preseason, playing outside of the bubble etc. And for the post-season bubble teams with no off-season to speak of, the challenged would be greater getting ready for the season and probably dealing with a lot of injuries as players changed their training routines. And that played out.

As to the knicks prediction I picked a somewhat artificial low for fun and to see if anyone would go under my #. Nope no takers, but as I recall most here had the knicks at 24-ish. IMO new coach, young team, covid challenges etc would be challenging, and a low 20 # was reasonable, but to the knicks credit, they far exceeded my low expectations and have played better than I expected. But I would also view their successes in context. But I'd enjoy it no matter what.

And what context might that be? 

Some narrative which might explain why they are slightly ahead of Boston and Miami, and slightly behind the Hawks?  Is there some anomaly we have been overlooking? 

Injuries?  COVID?  ALL teams have been dealing with these. 
Title: Re: Chill Dawg
Post by: chipstern on April 21, 2021, 05:23:42 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on April 21, 2021, 09:46:46 AM
Quote from: elephant on April 20, 2021, 12:56:13 PM
Quote from: chipstern on April 20, 2021, 12:43:18 PM
One toke over the line, dude. 

Absolutely.

If you can make an argument or an observation that he's using the term "entitlement" to deal just with black athletes, then make the point.

Otherwise, this is drive-by bullshit.

drive-by bullshit, lmao, PLANTATION MASTER BO has a long history, a decade of observation and example, more codewords and dogwhistles than Lee Atwater in his prime...but no worries, Kyrie and Zion sure don't need my help!!!

https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore/_/gameId/401307676 (https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore/_/gameId/401307676)
* and if you feel more comfortable with just "butt stupid," that's ok too
*** and just be really, really happy Derek Chauvin was convicted cause otherwise, his inevitable "advice" on how black NBA players should comport themselves in the aftermath of such events would have been truly excruciating

Go Knicks!

You baffle me Dawg. 

Comparing BoD to Lee Atwater?  PLANTATION MASTER?  Bite me, dude. 

Even Kiid at his most reflexive, would not spout such transparently specious balderdash. 

I like you dude, but frankly, I'm embarassed for you. 

HERE are some free INSULT ELFRID Coupons.

Knock yourself out. 

Use them in good health, and try and show your fellow Forumites some respect.  You have a better mind, and better basketabll mind than that. 

Suggesting that the enigmatic Mister Irving has a certain sense of, oh, privilege, does not make one Bull Connors, motherfucker.  Nor does pointing out the contradictions in Kyrie's character [toggling as he does between blowing off the media, flat earth pronouncements and personal days, and a very generous nature to strangers and students and victims of police violence] take anything away from Irving's over the top skill set.

I argue with BoD all the damn time, but I have known him as long as I have known you, and your drive by piss take is unwarranted and uncalled for and butt ugly. 
Title: Meanwhile, Back On Planet Earth
Post by: chipstern on April 21, 2021, 05:32:14 PM
Watching Gibson at 35 and Toppin at 23?

Two very similar physical types in the 6'9" 230 range. 

Obi doesn't have it in him to be like Mike, but I see no reason why he could not evolve along the lines of a Taj Gibson PF-C. 

His much vaunted trey has been a no show, but last night, one nice defensive sequence comes to mind, and when, in an all too rare moment, Obi found himself in the box, on the low post, one on one, he backed his man in very patiently, than banked one off the backboard for an easy deuce. 

Just saying, because, coming into this season people were writing off Julius and RJ, and look what they did with hard work, and purposeful, disciplined coaching...being challenged, and challenging themselves to raise their game to a higher standard. 

Okay, just a small detail in the greater web of our burgeoning transformation into a playoffs contender, but us curious and satisfying to this long suffering fan, to see Obi, Kevin and Frank get a flash of daylight, and do something positiive, and stay positive and focused on the pine. 

NEXT MAN UP. 

For real. 
Title: The Better Angels Of His Nature
Post by: chipstern on April 21, 2021, 05:46:31 PM
To WIT

Michael Scotto: Kyrie Irving on Derek Chauvin: “We have a long way to go as a country. We have some progress being made in terms of conversations being had and justice being served, but we just still have a long way to go. It’s a great time to reflect and see how far we’ve come in the last year” – via Twitter MikeAScotto
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on April 21, 2021, 05:51:54 PM
Quote from: chipstern on April 21, 2021, 05:11:46 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on April 21, 2021, 10:41:32 AM
Quote
Pretty sure I projected on this board - along with taking the over on the laughable 22 win total Vegas had laid out for us (Bankshot had the under) - that NYK would run off a nice win streak of 5, 6, 7+ games at some point.

I thought this was going to be a shitshow of a year for the entire NBA due to covid, playing with no preseason, playing outside of the bubble etc. And for the post-season bubble teams with no off-season to speak of, the challenged would be greater getting ready for the season and probably dealing with a lot of injuries as players changed their training routines. And that played out.

As to the knicks prediction I picked a somewhat artificial low for fun and to see if anyone would go under my #. Nope no takers, but as I recall most here had the knicks at 24-ish. IMO new coach, young team, covid challenges etc would be challenging, and a low 20 # was reasonable, but to the knicks credit, they far exceeded my low expectations and have played better than I expected. But I would also view their successes in context. But I'd enjoy it no matter what.

And what context might that be? 

Some narrative which might explain why they are slightly ahead of Boston and Miami, and slightly behind the Hawks?  Is there some anomaly we have been overlooking? 

Injuries?  COVID?  ALL teams have been dealing with these.
Chip-I listed the factors which might explain and give some context to the NBA this year.

covid
no pre-season
shortened off-season, particularly for bubble teams,
change in training habits which might lead to injuries

without doing a team by team tally several of last year's post-season teams have had disappointing years to varying degrees.

IMO covid has leveled the court to some degree.

covid induced parity, that's the context.

The NBA is one big zero sum game, if a bunch of teams under perform expectations, a bunch will likely over perform.
Title: No Sale
Post by: chipstern on April 21, 2021, 06:42:22 PM
I feel you Bank, but seems like the anomalies of this season affected everyone equally. 

Covid suspensions.  Injuries without a summer off, months long training camps and preseasons.  If anything, the Knicks started even farther behind he 8-Ball, with no bubble, no post-season, very limited pre-season prep. 

Knicks have had their share of injuries and Covid afflictions and protocols: Robinson, Rose, Burks. 

Celtics: Smart, Walker....Tatum had Covid, right? 

Heat: I forget, but Herro came down to Earth. 

Hawks: Tonight, Gallo, Snell, Reddish, Hunter and Dunn are out. 

My friend seems to think that makes it a gimme for the Knicks.  I BEG TO DIFFER.  Trae, Capella, Bogdonavich are hitting on all cylinders. 

This is THE MOST IMPACTFUL game of our season. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 21, 2021, 06:42:41 PM
Reggie Bullock’s first 31 games:
41% on 7.5 FGA, 38% on 4.5 3PA

Reggie Bullock’s last 21 games:
46% on 9.4 FGA, 42% on 7.6 3PA
Title: Re: No Sale
Post by: bankshot1 on April 21, 2021, 07:17:52 PM
Quote from: chipstern on April 21, 2021, 06:42:22 PM
I feel you Bank, but seems like the anomalies of this season affected everyone equally. 

Covid suspensions.  Injuries without a summer off, months long training camps and preseasons.  If anything, the Knicks started even farther behind he 8-Ball, with no bubble, no post-season, very limited pre-season prep. 

Knicks have had their share of injuries and Covid afflictions and protocols: Robinson, Rose, Burks. 

Celtics: Smart, Walker....Tatum had Covid, right? 

Heat: I forget, but Herro came down to Earth. 

Hawks: Tonight, Gallo, Snell, Reddish, Hunter and Dunn are out. 

My friend seems to think that makes it a gimme for the Knicks.  I BEG TO DIFFER.  Trae, Capella, Bogdonavich are hitting on all cylinders. 

This is THE MOST IMPACTFUL game of our season.

The factors affected everyone, but I'm not sure it impacted teams equally, for example some teams played bubble ball until September and October, while other team seasons were over in July. So some players had to get ready for '20-21 in 2 months, while other players had twice as long to recover/prepare.

Taking a look at the pre-season predictions and comparing them to current results in the East 5 of the highest win totals prediction teams appear to be on their way to winning 27 fewer games than predicted.

I don't think its surprising that of the last 4 teams out of the bubble from last year, 3 of the 4 have underperformed predictions.

Celts   (45.5 projected wins) using current win % projected to win 38 games or 7.5 less than expected
Heat   (44.5)                     using current win % projected to win 37 games or 7.5 less than expected
Lakers (46.5)                     using current win % projected to win 43 games or 3 less than expected
Nuggets (44.5)                  using current win % projected to win 46.5 games or 2 more than expected

here's the link if you want to check.

https://www.vegasinsider.com/nba/odds/win-totals/ (https://www.vegasinsider.com/nba/odds/win-totals/)


The Knicks (.542 winning %) appear to be on track to win about 16.5 more games than the original 22.5 projection.

Taking nothing away from the knicks, but there is a connection and correaltion to the higher prediction teams under performing by an estimated 27 games and their exceeding expectations by an estimated 16-17 games.
 
As to the Celts, I posted something pre-season and re-posted here a couple of months ago, that the Celts would use the first 20+ games to play recent draftees and see what Teague and TT could do in Kemba's and others absence. Basically treat the first 2 months as a pre-season to see who could play in the post-season and contribute.

It seemed pretty clear that Brad was going to have to deal with new rotations. Unfortunately for the Celts, my 20+ game preseason turned into almost 60, as they can't keep guys on the court. And they still can't they had 4 rotation guys miss their last game (Kemba, Smart, TL, Fournier). There has been no continuity. Biggest issue is Kemba. I still hope they will get a rotation healthy enough to have a half-decent post-season run.
Title: Re: Puerto Rico
Post by: carlos123 on April 21, 2021, 09:37:46 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 21, 2021, 02:51:51 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on April 20, 2021, 11:22:57 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 20, 2021, 10:50:22 PM
It’s nice to be a game and a half up on Miami at this point, very nice. Tonight was the night we hit my number. It’s all gravy from here on out as far as I’m concerned.

If PR would rather, they can declare independence. The current state of affairs is definitely working against the island. Fully in or fully out would each be a better basis for the relationship.

Fac, you may be right, I don’t know. My point is that they, not you or me or even Chamaco, should decide for themselves. As far as I know, they’ve been asked a couple of times and decided to remain an Estado Libre Asociado, maybe the no-federal-taxes status is a powerful incentive.

PS. KP tosses salads in Dallas. Go Kamster!!!

They did decide for themselves just last year.

http://ballotpedia.org/Puerto_Rico_Statehood_Referendum_(2020) (http://ballotpedia.org/Puerto_Rico_Statehood_Referendum_(2020))

Statehood it is once the crackers get out of the way.

Go Kamster indeed!

I stand corrected. Didn't know about this last referendum. The two prior ones went the other way, so I thought that was that.

By all means, statehood for PR now that they want it!

It's gonna be hard for the crackers, a bunch of dark people in, and on top of it, Hispanic!

Whaddayasay Chamaco? He ain't answering.  😁
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 21, 2021, 10:25:37 PM
Hawks are tough...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 21, 2021, 10:30:08 PM
I dont even think this MVP race is close.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on April 21, 2021, 10:46:18 PM
Wow.
Title: Dishing and Swishing Baby
Post by: carlos123 on April 21, 2021, 10:47:19 PM
Wow! What a game, best of the season! And #4 by ourselves!!!
King Julius just amazing, dishing and swishing.
And, like Chip would say, next man up. How about IQ in OT?
Now Bank, don’t tell me Trae got hurt, so did Taj and Nerlens.
But Nerlens got back. So what? We’re just tougher baby!

PS. Chip, time for your Rhapsody in Blue (and Orange), please.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on April 21, 2021, 11:12:01 PM
mmm, mmm, good! What a game — Nate has done a helluva job with that team.
Title: Re: Chill Dawg
Post by: lesterluv on April 21, 2021, 11:23:14 PM
Quote from: chipstern on April 21, 2021, 05:23:42 PM

I argue with BoD all the damn time, but I have known him as long as I have known you, and your drive by piss take is unwarranted and uncalled for and butt ugly.

lol, I'm telling you, it ain't no drive by — the man has a 10 YEAR history — AND A BUCKETFUL of particularly egregious comments over this past year, when there's been a lot of things rightfully more important to a lot of players than playing 72 uninterrupted games for your enjoyment (from physical health and mental health and a white hate insurrection and slew of black bodies headed to the morgue), and he wants Kyrie, and all his entertainment marionettes to DANCE DANCE DANCE and keep his satellite stream in China flowing.

but you have your opinion, and I have mine:)
all good!


*** but that Zion Williamson is one "entitled" m'fer....yes, sir!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 21, 2021, 11:29:23 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on April 21, 2021, 11:12:01 PM
mmm, mmm, good! What a game — Nate has done a helluva job with that team.

I was just about to post that. 

SVG Carlyle SVG Clifford Nate all guys who get their teams to play hard and not roll over.

We seem to be in the midst of flipping over to a ridiculous offensive team with somewhat shaky D.
Title: Hmmm.....
Post by: Kam on April 22, 2021, 12:13:25 AM
They play in the Mecca and they're undefeated during Ramadan... 

(https://i.redd.it/4bsmjis11nu61.jpg)
Title: Your Portland Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on April 22, 2021, 12:30:19 AM
Again, they lost by 1 point.
Again, they started useless Nurkic.
And Enes Kamster, I mean Kanter, played only 18 minutes.
Idiots!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 22, 2021, 12:40:06 AM
Shams Charania
@ShamsCharania

The New York Knicks are signing center Norvel Pelle to a multiyear deal, sources tell
@TheAthletic

His second 10-day deal ended today. Pelle finds home after stops in Brooklyn and Sacramento this season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 22, 2021, 01:24:57 AM
Just saw that. Good for him & good for us.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 22, 2021, 02:14:20 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/4YTRRMl.jpeg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on April 22, 2021, 08:18:10 AM
TT + Julius = BB+ Brady?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 22, 2021, 08:23:41 AM
Quote from: Kam on April 22, 2021, 12:40:06 AM
Shams Charania
@ShamsCharania

The New York Knicks are signing center Norvel Pelle to a multiyear deal, sources tell
@TheAthletic

His second 10-day deal ended today. Pelle finds home after stops in Brooklyn and Sacramento this season.

Nice.

They must really like his character, approach as well as his play

Wondering a little about the future of our 3 other bigs but we will cross that bridge when we come to it.

Could Mitch go in a deal this summer?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on April 22, 2021, 09:25:55 AM
His blocks per 36 min lifetime (tiny sample size 32 games) is a ridiculous 4.6. He fits right in for sure. Seems like a lot of them came against us:

https://youtu.be/5Yhs9XmTmjY (https://youtu.be/5Yhs9XmTmjY)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 22, 2021, 01:12:28 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on April 22, 2021, 08:23:41 AM


Could Mitch go in a deal this summer?

Possibly.   I don't think both Noel and Mitch will be back.  It will depend on how much Noel demands vs. what Mitch expects as a free agent.  There may be value in signing Noel for less than what it would take to sign Mitch and trading Mitch for some asset(s).   No matter what I think Taj is re-signed as a backup. Nice to have a team option on Pelle but no guarantee he returns.
Title: Carlos
Post by: chipstern on April 22, 2021, 01:58:11 PM
NEW YORK

(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5c71fa9f8d97406dfec4507d/1601067977570-0DF1RBOPST7VKO79W2XF/ke17ZwdGBToddI8pDm48kIhL1GW1DVXmI_RGIZdH7gpZw-zPPgdn4jUwVcJE1ZvWhcwhEtWJXoshNdA9f1qD7Xj1nVWs2aaTtWBneO2WM-titbGtmsjq75FD0408O1rGuYKdR4mdc0u6xG8459PcKQ/willis+reed.jpg)

We HERE

DVR'd the game so I can watch it again. 

T-E-A-M

Thibs puts the T in TEAM. 

No Quit. 

DAMN. 

(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/LGQZpxShEP4jQkpTv3iFkw_dlPo=/0x0:2268x1512/1200x800/filters:focal(222x267:584x629)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/68991350/usa_today_15751574.0.jpg)

(https://cdn.elitesportsny.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/derrick-rose-e1614732083356-681x383.png)

(https://images2.minutemediacdn.com/image/fetch/w_736,h_485,c_fill,g_auto,f_auto/https%3A%2F%2Fdailyknicks.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fimagn-images%2F2017%2F07%2F15395696-850x560.jpeg)

Title: Do Tell
Post by: chipstern on April 22, 2021, 02:45:57 PM
Justin Kubatko: Prior to this season, the only player in NBA history to average 20+ PPG, 10+ RPG, and 5+ APG with a 40+ 3P% was Larry Bird in 1984-85. This season, two players are on pace to join him: Nikola Jokic and Julius Randle. pic.twitter.com/ZCSqDSAOQd – via Twitter jkubatko
Title: Re: Do Tell
Post by: chipstern on April 22, 2021, 02:54:52 PM
Quote from: chipstern on April 22, 2021, 02:45:57 PM
Justin Kubatko: Prior to this season, the only player in NBA history to average 20+ PPG, 10+ RPG, and 5+ APG with a 40+ 3P% was Larry Bird in 1984-85. This season, two players are on pace to join him: Nikola Jokic and Julius Randle. pic.twitter.com/ZCSqDSAOQd – via Twitter jkubatko

For his career....HIS CAREER.

Bird averaged....AVERAGED

24.3 ppg
10.0 rebounds
6.3 assists
.886 FT%
.376 3-PT%

For this season [THIS SEASON]

Julius is averaging

23.9 ppg
10.5 rebounds
6.1 assists
.807 FT%
.410 3-PT%
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 22, 2021, 08:58:33 PM
Now let’s see how we deal with a little success, a challenge some teams find even harder to surmount.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 22, 2021, 09:26:59 PM
Boston wins to keep pace.
Title: Re: Do Tell
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 22, 2021, 09:59:27 PM
Quote from: chipstern on April 22, 2021, 02:45:57 PM
Justin Kubatko: Prior to this season, the only player in NBA history to average 20+ PPG, 10+ RPG, and 5+ APG with a 40+ 3P% was Larry Bird in 1984-85. This season, two players are on pace to join him: Nikola Jokic and Julius Randle. pic.twitter.com/ZCSqDSAOQd – via Twitter jkubatko

Have to admit - I keep forgetting about Jokic in the MVP talk

Certainly OK with Nikola getting it over Julius

But it'll be funny when they have Randle out of the top 5
Title: Re: Carlos
Post by: carlos123 on April 22, 2021, 10:16:32 PM
Quote from: chipstern on April 22, 2021, 01:58:11 PM
NEW YORK

We HERE

DVR'd the game so I can watch it again. 

T-E-A-M

Thibs puts the T in TEAM. 

No Quit. 

DAMN. 


Thanks Chip!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 23, 2021, 03:33:31 AM
Some have Jokic as the runaway winner, with many of the other top contenders missing games.  I expect if Knix finish .500 or better that Randle will get serious consideration.  Knix in the East top 6 will get some attention as well.
Especially since the Knix were expected to be a bottom-feeder again this year.

A lot depends on how many games Giannis, Kawhi, Embiid miss. 
LeBJ probably out of the conversation since he's been encrippled for so long now.
I can't imagine any of the Nets are serious contenders now either.  Harden has the early season HOU blemish and now out  for a while.

Title: Mvp snub
Post by: Kam on April 23, 2021, 03:36:26 AM
Embiid
Jokic
Giannis
Luka

Ok
But why no Randle in top 15?

 https://www.nba.com/news/kia-mvp-ladder-april-16-edition (https://www.nba.com/news/kia-mvp-ladder-april-16-edition)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 23, 2021, 03:48:03 AM
Bam was having a fine season too.
I haven't seen MIA in a few weeks now.

Really a lotta guys playing their ass off.
And Randle one of them.
Should be in the Top 10.
Title: Re: Mvp snub
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 23, 2021, 09:40:33 AM
Quote from: Kam on April 23, 2021, 03:36:26 AM
Embiid
Jokic
Giannis
Luka

Ok
But why no Randle in top 15?

 https://www.nba.com/news/kia-mvp-ladder-april-16-edition (https://www.nba.com/news/kia-mvp-ladder-april-16-edition)

Like I said - ridiculous
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 23, 2021, 11:49:10 AM
Good God -

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2940943-kentuckys-terrence-clarke-dies-in-car-crash-at-age-19?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial

Prayers out to the family and the Kentucky hoops family

(Now THIS is a tragedy)

I was following Clarke earlier this season, watching 2 early Ky games.  He was good.
Title: Addendum For Carlos: THE BIG THREE & Professor X
Post by: chipstern on April 23, 2021, 06:03:28 PM
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/s960x960/175987019_10162155044989616_3580919408621285500_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=kC3CK4RyIAAAX8whPoc&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&tp=7&oh=403e60d4f2a8a0c2f3c2a179fc38fff1&oe=60AA36E0)
Title: Theo Piston
Post by: chipstern on April 23, 2021, 08:23:15 PM
Leon Rose got rid of PG Kadeem Allen & SG Alonzo Trier

Leon Rose replaced them with PG Jared Harper out of Auburn and SG Theo Piston out of North Carolina

Theophilus Alphonso Pinson

Code Name: SPARK PLUG

(https://cdn-headshots.theathletic.com/nba/20002118.png)

I didn't get it before but NOW, I Get IT.

M.L. Carr's role on those great Celtic teams comes to mind, but it's not like Theo is a cheerleader. 

More like he is the choirmaster of the Greek Chorus, an assistant-player coach who sets a tone as to how the final five roster players comport themselves and stay ready in as the next men up

DON'T HAVE TO BE ON THE OUTSIDE LOOKING IN WHEN YOU ARE OCCUPYING THE 11-THROUGH-15 SLOTS IN PROFESSOR X'S 10 MAN ROTATION

Kevin Knox
Frank Ntilikina
Norvell Pelle
Jared Harper
Theo Pinson

You will notice that THE FINAL FIVE, Professor X's NE[X]T MEN, by Coach's Light, are putting in the EXTRA WORK, The EXTRA SHOOTING, STAYING READY, and pulling for their fellow Knicks like a motherfucker. 

And who is keeping them in focus and directing all of that positive energy unto the floor? 

It STARTS With The 15th MAN. 
Not the end of the bench, but where the concept of team...
TEAM MATE
Is consecrated 

Theophilus Alphonso Pinson

(https://media3.giphy.com/media/1xktFIq04ITEU4pmcF/source.gif)

How does that old saw go?  Bible?

THEY ALSO SERVE WHO SIT AND WAIT
Title: Post Script
Post by: chipstern on April 23, 2021, 08:49:16 PM
Leon Rose

Coach Thibs

Not diverted by shiny objects. 

Victor Oladipo?
Andre Drummond?

Would not break up the team or mess with chemistry in mid-stream to take a flyer on an Oladipo.
Would not sunder Thibs's concept of the 5-Spot as a rim protector, or put a GIVE ME THE FUCKING BALL CENTER in the post. 

Determined that Bullock and Burks, RJ and IQ gave us ample coverage at the wing. 

And what did Pat Riley get out of Oldadipo at the cost of Olenyk and Bradley and a draft pick swap in 2022. 

Oladipo is presently serving time on the Kristaps Porzingis/Kevin Love AllStars.

Shiny Objects

And did we go for Drummond or Cousins or Dieng or Dedmon, all solid senders. 

NOPE. 

Leon offloaded Ignatz and Austin for a couple of warm bodies, absorbed their salaries into our cap space, copped a couple of second rounders, waived them, created two roster spots, and filled one with a center who fulfills all of Thibs' nutritional requirements, doesn't demand minutes and the ball, like Drummond or Cousins or Dieng or Dedmon, and is happy to fulfill a role and stay ready, as he has already proven in a couple of cameos. 

And, he has demonstrated to Coach Theo and The X[tra] Men at the end of the bench, that he is a worker bee with grit and gravy...AND READY WHEN COACH CALLS HIS NAME. 

T-E-A-M

Remember how everyone in the blogosphere and the media were castigating the Knicks for not going after Oladipo or Drummond or Ball.  Like we struck out.  Never mind the cost in the near term in terms of assets?  Chemistry?  What would be have had to give up for Lonzo?  Might get a shot at him this summer as well.  Or a Dennis Schroeder.  Or a Spencer Dimwiddie. Or a Goran Dragic.  Or a Mike Conley.  Or a Elfrid Payton. 

We have A TEAM, 15 Men On A MISSION

For maybe the second or third time in the last 20 years, we are engaged in a circle jerk round a can of Sterno, fantasizing about the draft or free agents.

Nope.

We are dancing with the gurl who brung us, and thinking not of the past nor the future....

But the HEAR and fucking NOW. 

And HOW. 

Playoffs, baby.
Title: THIS JUST IN
Post by: chipstern on April 23, 2021, 09:07:45 PM
Rust Never Sleeps

A

VERY
Intersting
MOVE

Remember that FINAL ROSTER SPOT?

Well...

The Knicks just converted JARED HARPER from a two-way contract to a 10-day contract. 

(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/z1Z9RREN_1OxPGx7i6_xOJQnD_Y=/0x0:4013x2675/1200x800/filters:focal(1864x402:2506x1044)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/68950235/1231423335.0.jpg)

And signed MYLES POWELL to a two-way contract. 

Title: Huh?
Post by: chipstern on April 23, 2021, 09:17:01 PM
All this shuffling? 

Does MP stick?

Or as this a clever back door way of getting him some compensation for signing with the Knicks in the offseason and playing at Westchester as an undrafted free agent. 

Taking care of one of your own? 

An advertisement to free agents that the Knicks will treat you with respect, thinking outside of the box? 
Title: Need to beat them Raptors
Post by: carlos123 on April 23, 2021, 10:18:37 PM
Because Boston lost, but Atlanta won.

Hey Chip, thanks for all of your Rhapsodies in Blue (and Orange), nice!!!

King Julius, GO GETTEM TOMORROW!!!

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3eR7JC9xsEF0unwhb57wxE0Kw1uaJR_MGuEpq8PTkGkwYLaX2NlFBKeMhidoeaI1xYQGnBLR5iKpXgu_mAmdSAHySa03dV0v0e1Mbpod0OLA3h0koqthLR4sgk0b8isYn6C4YpMAnoOFXAOTEz02i3p=w598-h411-no?authuser=0)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 23, 2021, 11:40:18 PM
We could have used Drummond or Horford
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 24, 2021, 07:29:40 AM
Drummond is often a mess.  Poor defender, misses FT's.  Rebounds like mad, but we rebound well up and down the starting lineup.  Taj and Noel have been doing great board work.  Our C platoon has been terrific.

Hawks beat Heat with Trae out and Bogdan at PG ... 21 & 8 assists.
Goodwin scored 17 off the bench in 22 mins.  Gallo was back with 17 pts in 22 mins.  Capela was out too with a bad back.  So that Knix-Hawk tilt really wiped out a lot of players.  As for NYK, Noel seems to get clobbered once a game. 

I've still only seen 3/4 of the Hawks-Knix game.  Trying to catch up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on April 24, 2021, 12:32:44 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 24, 2021, 07:29:40 AM
Drummond is often a mess.  Poor defender, misses FT's.  Rebounds like mad, but we rebound well up and down the starting lineup.  Taj and Noel have been doing great board work.  Our C platoon has been terrific.

Hawks beat Heat with Trae out and Bogdan at PG ... 21 & 8 assists.
Goodwin scored 17 off the bench in 22 mins.  Gallo was back with 17 pts in 22 mins.  Capela was out too with a bad back.  So that Knix-Hawk tilt really wiped out a lot of players.  As for NYK, Noel seems to get clobbered once a game. 

I've still only seen 3/4 of the Hawks-Knix game.  Trying to catch up.

Already watched Knicks-Hawks twice.  Just a big time physical encounter.  That Huerter kid is a nice player. 

Clyde at end game was simply incredulous as the Knicks drained one trey after another, as in, WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENNED TO THESE KNICKS. 

Remarkable when you think about the Knicks camraderie and work ethic, and the influence of their coaching staff. 

My God.

We went from the worst three point defending team to the best.

We went from the worst three point shooting team to the sixth. 

Th proof is in the pudding. 

PS: Was someone making the case for Drummond?  For one, Alan Hahn gets bonkers whenever his name is brought up.  To his way of thinking, a VERY POOR FIT. 
Title: What If?
Post by: chipstern on April 24, 2021, 12:38:30 PM
StatMuse: Miles Bridges is on pace to become the first Hornets player to have a 50/40/80 season in franchise history. 50.5 FG% 40.4 3P% 84.8 FT% pic.twitter.com/4DDR37oTdg – via Twitter statmuse

Drafted #12 the same year as Knox.  Has demonstrated a very nice growth curve in terms of FG%, 3-pt shooting, FT-shooting, boarding and assists.   

I believe it was the Prophet Kiid who made a case for us taking Bridges, though I forget if he were truly prescient or deploying his all seeing all knowing rear view mirror.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 24, 2021, 02:03:43 PM
Mikal Bridges with similar splits 51% / 37% / 89% for PHX.
Also a terrific long-armed defender who can guard 1-4.
They are both very good defenders, but with different styles.
Miles is more of a banger as we saw him jousting with Uncle Julius.
Mikal is more in the Scottie Pippen smother mode, and gets in passing lanes.

Both Bridges have really developed into solid starters.
I prefer Mikal, but Miles has really taken a leap this year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 24, 2021, 02:22:46 PM
The way Randle has been playing, there's really no such thing as a bad shot.
The step-back 3 v. ATL was a little unusual, but fine.
Anything Julius tosses up I expect to go in.
Kinda crazy.
 
Title: Who else?
Post by: carlos123 on April 24, 2021, 02:34:23 PM
Quote from: chipstern on April 24, 2021, 12:32:44 PM
PS: Was someone making the case for Drummond?  For one, Alan Hahn gets bonkers whenever his name is brought up.  To his way of thinking, a VERY POOR FIT.

Of course Chamaco was, on the post just before the one you quote from BoZ.

Quote from: chamacocartero8 on April 23, 2021, 11:40:18 PM
We could have used Drummond or Horford
Title: PLEASE HELP
Post by: carlos123 on April 24, 2021, 02:38:51 PM
I had to clean up my cell phone browser from cookies and history.

When I tried to login again, Escape from Elba just won't let me, something about "session timed out while posting".

I think this problem was discussed here a while ago, and there was a trick to login, but I don't remember what it was.

Can anyone help? I now have to turn on the computer to be able to post, and that is not always convenient.

Thank you.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on April 24, 2021, 02:48:48 PM
Don’t log in where it says “Please Log in or Register”. There’s a bar underneath that with a link to another screen to login. That should work Hope that helps. You can email me at [email protected] if you need a better explanation.
Title: Thanks
Post by: carlos123 on April 24, 2021, 02:55:48 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on April 24, 2021, 02:48:48 PM
Don’t log in where it says “Please Log in or Register”. There’s a bar underneath that with a link to another screen to login. That should work Hope that helps. You can email me at [email protected] if you need a better explanation.

Thank you Yank, it worked like a charm 😊
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on April 24, 2021, 02:59:40 PM
Excellent.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on April 24, 2021, 03:46:22 PM
Damn. Every game is a pleasure.

BTW, Rose is clearly a level above Peyton, no? I feel like he's consistently demonstrating this, game in, game out.

Not saying Thibs needs to change the lineup, but the disparity seems clear. I had no idea Rose could still play this well. Blows me away.
Title: Fourth Quarter J
Post by: chipstern on April 24, 2021, 03:55:29 PM
Used to be fourth quarter is when we'd tank.

Now it is when we PEAK.

Damn.

I am all verklempt.

Sniff.

PHOENIX our next challenge and a big one.

DAMN
Title: Obi Kanoobee
Post by: chipstern on April 24, 2021, 03:58:11 PM
Three Treys

Yes

So happy for our puppy

The Magic Is IN THE WORK.
Title: Re: Fourth Quarter J
Post by: carlos123 on April 24, 2021, 03:59:40 PM
Quote from: chipstern on April 24, 2021, 03:55:29 PM
Used to be fourth quarter is when we'd tank.

Now it is when we PEAK.

Damn.

I am all verklempt.

Sniff.

PHOENIX our next challenge and a big one.

DAMN

Yeah, a big one.

But the way we're playing, I feel like we can beat ANYONE.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on April 24, 2021, 06:49:04 PM
I just love waiting for the inevitable

critical crunchtime Nerlens Noel block


***yes, Rose is playing at an extremely high level, many many above Elfrid, and also yes, we can fully trust Thibs here.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 24, 2021, 06:55:38 PM
StatMuse: Miles Bridges is on pace to become the first Hornets player to have a 50/40/80 season in franchise history. 50.5 FG% 40.4 3P% 84.8 FT% pic.twitter.com/4DDR37oTdg – via Twitter statmuse


That would be MY Bridges - yes
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 24, 2021, 06:58:53 PM
PHOENIX our next challenge and a big one.


Beauty is really that there will be very few must wins left on the docket
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 24, 2021, 07:08:33 PM
Fuck that.

Now the lotto boats are pretty well burnt, they are all must wins. I do not want to fall below four. I also want to finish better than the Mavs.

Get well soon, Alec. Get well soon.
Title: Glengary Glen Thibodbyeau
Post by: chipstern on April 24, 2021, 07:49:57 PM
Always be coaching.

ALWAYS BE COACHING

Winning habits.

The magic is in the work.

RJ "Coffee IS For CLOSERS" BARRETT
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 24, 2021, 08:24:37 PM
That's the Barrett I have always been bullish on, no?

Please - listen when I speak on this year's draft crop
Title: Best listen up boys—Genius Alert! Oh.....wait....
Post by: lesterluv on April 24, 2021, 08:44:00 PM
lol.... was there anyone in the world who didn't have Barrett as the #3 pick in that draft?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 24, 2021, 10:17:56 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on April 24, 2021, 08:24:37 PM
That's the Barrett I have always been bullish on, no?

Please - listen when I speak on this year's draft crop

If I don’t listen how will I know when to laugh?

Good of the Knicks taking care of Pelle, Harper, and Powell. More low key goodness from the FO.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 24, 2021, 11:26:12 PM
And Simi Shittu from the W-Knicks may be coming on as well.
Title: Re: Best listen up boys—Genius Alert! Oh.....wait....
Post by: carlos123 on April 25, 2021, 01:06:15 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on April 24, 2021, 08:44:00 PM
lol.... was there anyone in the world who didn't have Barrett as the #3 pick in that draft?

Genius Chamaco probably had him as #1 😂🤣
Title: Stable Genius Chamaco
Post by: carlos123 on April 25, 2021, 01:08:24 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 24, 2021, 10:17:56 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on April 24, 2021, 08:24:37 PM
That's the Barrett I have always been bullish on, no?

Please - listen when I speak on this year's draft crop

If I don’t listen how will I know when to laugh?


There ain't no laughing if there ain't no Chamaco 😁🤣
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 25, 2021, 04:18:43 AM
RJB was the consensus #3.  Kiid likely had us trading up, down and sideways.
Obvious strengths: NBA body at a young age and a very good support network (father a big-time Canada basketball guy, hooked in with Nash, etc). 

A bit suspect as a shooter.  More of a driver/scorer, but he's developed his shot.  RJB has also become a very good team defender, which usually is attributable to hard work and smarts.  His man defense is still a work in progress, but RJB is really good within a defensive scheme.

I still like DeAndre Hunter.  Coming along nicely as a classic 3&D wing.
Too bad he's had knee trouble this year.  Had a minor knee op early Feb, came back after 6 weeks, and experienced soreness.
Hunter was 16 / 5 / 2 .... 50% / 36% / 87% ... Quite good for a lockdown defender.
(and those numbers pulled down a bit by 2 ineffectual games when he tried to comeback and the injury game).  Hopefully nothing long term.

Culver was supposed to be another solid 3&D wing but he's struggled.  A 29% 3-Pt shooter and a crummy 50% FT.

2019 draft was quite interesting.  Lotta talent.
Hell, even the 2nd round had:
Nic Claxton, Cody Martian, Gafford, Paschall, Talen Horton-Hears-A-Who, Terence Freakin' Man, Bol "Bol" Bol and no doubt someone else with a funny name will pop.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 25, 2021, 04:40:30 AM
Roby and McDaniels are other guys coming along from the back half of 2019. Strengths already outweigh weaknesses in minor roles at this stage in their development.
Title: Re: Best listen up boys—Genius Alert! Oh.....wait....
Post by: chipstern on April 25, 2021, 10:50:31 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on April 24, 2021, 08:44:00 PM
lol.... was there anyone in the world who didn't have Barrett as the #3 pick in that draft?

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/1f/4b/f0/1f4bf0d80bbc9c08a827c65cd1c59893.png)

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/46/33/31/4633310ecb81aa2041f876dbe72dca0c.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 25, 2021, 10:58:25 AM
RJB was the consensus #3.  Kiid likely had us trading up, down and sideways.


Everyone had us trading up to 1 - which was a dream.

It was YOU and YOU alone that recently barked how it was a 2 player draft

And who constantly harps on D Hunter over Barrett.

Peace, pal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 25, 2021, 11:01:58 AM
Barrett was actually a consensus 2/3, by the way.  There were teams that would have taken Barrett at 2
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 25, 2021, 11:09:14 AM
Discussion yesterday on Sirrius NBA Radio - re:  Dennis Schroder

1 - Lakers not taking Lowry over THTucker inclusion.  And Ujiri's turning down a very good player in Schroder moving forward over THT not being included
2 -  Toronto maybe still keeping Kyle after this year, should the team prez stick around
3 - Disagreement among hosts on if Schroder would get max dollars (Sam Mitchell - "Hell, no!"), an insistence that may have kept him in LA after teams did not want to deal and extend.
4 - Agreement that DS is an excellent talent.  (Postseason will tell plenty after Schroder has bet on himself in looking for that max - again - could have been dealt had he not demanded max in a sign and extend deal)

Fun stuff - and yeah - Schroder will be on our list along with Rose and Payton re-sign possibilities for '21-'22
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 25, 2021, 11:14:24 AM
Great ATL game.  Glad I persisted and watched the end.

Rose & IQ, the Knick 2nd unit backcourt were huge in the 4Q, minuting a comeback and taking a lead with Randle on the bench.  Very impressive.  ObiT contributed some too.  Another terrific game for Randle even though he was a bit up in down in regulation crunchtime.

I was thinking it was a decent game for Bogdan -- three 1Q steals even if RJB threw one right to him.  But Bog missed a number of open shots.  But then in crunchtime with Trae out, Boggy took over and led the Hawks back.  Certainly looked like the best Hawk player out there.  A huge 3 with 6 ticks left to tie the game and get it to OT.  Then the second part of OT Bogdanovic was guarding Randle and did a pretty damn good job.  Breen said since April 1 Bog made the 2nd most 3's only behind Scurry.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 25, 2021, 11:38:01 AM
Two man draft.
2 all-stars/franchise players headlining the draft then a whole lot of good players.
RJB or Hunter.
Lotta nice PF's:
Jax Hayes, PJ Wash, Cam Johnson, Rui Hachi, Brandon Clarke
Garland & Coby White not really my type, but scorers.
Cam Reddish a hot mess, but sure could develop.
Interesting role players:
Sharpshooter Herro, Grant Williams, elite defender Thybulle.
ETC
Deep Draft
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 25, 2021, 12:01:04 PM
Had decided on Zion, of course.

Jerry West came out and had Marant the #1 overall.  But nobody other than Logo was saying JM was head and shoulders above Barrett.

Ja's nice.  But he's no Kyrie. NO LaMelo either.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on April 25, 2021, 01:01:51 PM
A view from the north

from today's Globe

nothing new but enjoy

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/04/24/sports/knicks-position-playoff-conversation-stunning-development/ (https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/04/24/sports/knicks-position-playoff-conversation-stunning-development/)

Like it or not, the New York Knicks are pushing the Celtics for the fourth seed in the Eastern Conference and home-court advantage in the first round of the playoffs.

Their ascension has occurred quickly, in coach Tom Thibodeau’s first season, with Julius Randle becoming an MVP candidate, second-year forward RJ Barrett making rapid improvement, and the team’s complementary players filling key roles and turning the Knicks into a tough out.

New York beat the Toronto Raptors on Saturday to extend its winning streak to nine games, the longest since a 13-game run late in the 2012-13 season.

It’s been a stunning development, especially considering there were mixed reviews when Knicks president Leon Rose hired Thibodeau for his third NBA coaching job after he was fired from the previous two. Thibodeau has been known for his old-school approach since his assistant days with the Celtics, and the perception was the game had passed him by, the younger generation tuning out his raspy voice that is constantly yelling commands.

But it’s been the perfect combination, the curmudgeon coach looking for redemption and a bunch of players looking for the same
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on April 25, 2021, 01:47:38 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on April 25, 2021, 01:01:51 PM
A view from the north

from today's Globe

nothing new but enjoy

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/04/24/sports/knicks-position-playoff-conversation-stunning-development/ (https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/04/24/sports/knicks-position-playoff-conversation-stunning-development/)

Like it or not, the New York Knicks are pushing the Celtics for the fourth seed in the Eastern Conference and home-court advantage in the first round of the playoffs.

Their ascension has occurred quickly, in coach Tom Thibodeau’s first season, with Julius Randle becoming an MVP candidate, second-year forward RJ Barrett making rapid improvement, and the team’s complementary players filling key roles and turning the Knicks into a tough out.

New York beat the Toronto Raptors on Saturday to extend its winning streak to nine games, the longest since a 13-game run late in the 2012-13 season.

It’s been a stunning development, especially considering there were mixed reviews when Knicks president Leon Rose hired Thibodeau for his third NBA coaching job after he was fired from the previous two. Thibodeau has been known for his old-school approach since his assistant days with the Celtics, and the perception was the game had passed him by, the younger generation tuning out his raspy voice that is constantly yelling commands.

But it’s been the perfect combination, the curmudgeon coach looking for redemption and a bunch of players looking for the same

Derrick Rose noted how he has mellowed, matured. 

We have a bunch of role players playing their asses off, and who could have seen based on last year that Randle and Barrett would have made such dramatic improvements in every aspect of their games.  I still can't quite comprehend how we got Derrick Rose for the earthly remains of Dennis Smith and what presently projects to be the #46 pick in the draft [copped from Charlotte in the Hernan Gomez trade]. 

I haven't felt such a sense of confidence and security in a Knicks PG since Jason Kidd's single season.  Like Kemba, when Rose and Walker are healthy, and loggin significant minutes, the Knicks and Celtics are a whole different team. 

The Knicks and Celtics appear to be on a collision course for the post-season.  How great is THAT? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 25, 2021, 01:53:54 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on April 25, 2021, 01:01:51 PM
A view from the north

from today's Globe

nothing new but enjoy

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/04/24/sports/knicks-position-playoff-conversation-stunning-development/ (https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/04/24/sports/knicks-position-playoff-conversation-stunning-development/)

Like it or not, the New York Knicks are pushing the Celtics for the fourth seed in the Eastern Conference and home-court advantage in the first round of the playoffs.

Their ascension has occurred quickly, in coach Tom Thibodeau’s first season, with Julius Randle becoming an MVP candidate, second-year forward RJ Barrett making rapid improvement, and the team’s complementary players filling key roles and turning the Knicks into a tough out.

New York beat the Toronto Raptors on Saturday to extend its winning streak to nine games, the longest since a 13-game run late in the 2012-13 season.

It’s been a stunning development, especially considering there were mixed reviews when Knicks president Leon Rose hired Thibodeau for his third NBA coaching job after he was fired from the previous two. Thibodeau has been known for his old-school approach since his assistant days with the Celtics, and the perception was the game had passed him by, the younger generation tuning out his raspy voice that is constantly yelling commands.

But it’s been the perfect combination, the curmudgeon coach looking for redemption and a bunch of players looking for the same

heh

Fucking hack

https://www.bostonglobe.com/about/staff-list/staff/gary-washburn/
Title: Draft Position
Post by: chipstern on April 25, 2021, 01:55:34 PM
As of today, star gazers, the Knicks have the 15, 21 and 33 picks. 

According to NBA Draft Net

Hmmm...that can't be right. 

The #15 spot seems a little low based on our record.  With Dallas at #21. 

When WE are 34-27

And Dallas is 33-26



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 25, 2021, 01:57:37 PM
The Knicks and Celtics appear to be on a collision course for the post-season.  How great is THAT?


No - not as of today

Celts at Bucks
Hawks at Knicks
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 25, 2021, 02:02:08 PM
The #15 spot seems a little low based on our record.  With Dallas at #21.


They dont update well

Knicks right now have the #20.  Dallas the 21.

Haters of the KP trade get their day, I guess

Though I did mention the Baylor kid as being listed in one of our slots.  He's certainly a player.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 25, 2021, 02:05:17 PM
Sadly, the 20 when combined with the 21 is not a good enough pick for us to package them and move up to top ten (and get a Kispert or someone else of high value)

Lets lose a few

(heh)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 25, 2021, 02:16:57 PM
I think at this point if we dont trade up I would be comfortable with a Bouknight (Uconn) or a Butler (Baylor) - then with the second pick go EURO with a kid like Prkacin  https://www.nbadraft.net/players/roko-prkacin/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on April 25, 2021, 03:05:39 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on April 25, 2021, 01:57:37 PM

No - not as of today

Celts at Bucks
Hawks at Knicks

Whichever...think the the Hawks would prove a much tougher out
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on April 25, 2021, 03:28:34 PM
death by 1,000 stings

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 25, 2021, 03:35:24 PM
RJ draft

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2019-nba-mock-draft-top-three-of-zion-williamson-rj-barrett-ja-morant-a-virtual-lock-and-then-things-get-interesting/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 25, 2021, 03:37:58 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on April 25, 2021, 03:28:34 PM
death by 1,000 stings


-28 for JT
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 25, 2021, 03:39:42 PM
20 for my Bridges - and a +24

Little kid in the corner got 15 minutes for Celts but still waits for the ball
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on April 25, 2021, 03:50:20 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on April 25, 2021, 03:05:39 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on April 25, 2021, 01:57:37 PM

No - not as of today

Celts at Bucks
Hawks at Knicks

Whichever...think the the Hawks would prove a much tougher out

Yeah, I agree. And it's funny since we beat the Hawks all three games this year.

But they seem dangerous.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on April 25, 2021, 03:54:02 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on April 25, 2021, 03:37:58 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on April 25, 2021, 03:28:34 PM
death by 1,000 stings


-28 for JT


kid you have a bad habit of drawing conclusions, and usually wrong, from small sample sizes.

If you want to continually argue Tatum's value as a player, which you seem to enjoy doing, I'm not sure picking an ugly blow-out loss is very meaningful, I might pick some more data points.

And fwiw kid, i got your +/- in trolling hot takes as - infinity as you surpassed normal historic bounds of trolling suckage years ago.

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 25, 2021, 04:16:59 PM
Quote from: elephant on April 25, 2021, 03:50:20 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on April 25, 2021, 03:05:39 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on April 25, 2021, 01:57:37 PM

No - not as of today

Celts at Bucks
Hawks at Knicks

Whichever...think the the Hawks would prove a much tougher out

Yeah, I agree. And it's funny since we beat the Hawks all three games this year.

But they seem dangerous.

I prefer Hawks
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 25, 2021, 04:30:02 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on April 25, 2021, 03:54:02 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on April 25, 2021, 03:37:58 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on April 25, 2021, 03:28:34 PM
death by 1,000 stings


-28 for JT


kid you have a bad habit of drawing conclusions, and usually wrong, from small sample sizes.

If you want to continually argue Tatum's value as a player, which you seem to enjoy doing, I'm not sure picking an ugly blow-out loss is very meaningful, I might pick some more data points.

And fwiw kid, i got your +/- in trolling hot takes as - infinity as you surpassed normal historic bounds of trolling suckage years ago.

heh

Always been a big Tatum fan
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 25, 2021, 05:08:11 PM
http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2021/04/knicks-waive-myles-powell.html (http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2021/04/knicks-waive-myles-powell.html)

Powell signing was to give him a bonus, not so he’d actually show up. He’s waived to bring in Shittu who, along with Pinson, are our two-ways.

This is our current full roster:

Noel Taj Pelle Mitch
Randle Obi
Bullock Burks Knox
Barrett Quickley Frank
Payton Rose Harper

Turn 3 picks into two & take BPA with both picks. We have no urgent positional holes and it will be a fight for minutes for any rook at any spot regardless. Intelligent, Mature, High-motor, and big for position are my top attributes.

Pinson Shittu
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 25, 2021, 05:21:30 PM
I’d still trade our whole draft for Scotty Barnes from FSU. He’d be perfect here with what we do.
Title: Damn!!!
Post by: carlos123 on April 25, 2021, 09:59:56 PM
Atlanta beat the Bucks, and tomorrow they play the Pistons while we play Phoenix.

Looks scary 👹
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 26, 2021, 12:19:43 AM
Bogdanovic outscored Giannis ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 26, 2021, 12:24:57 AM
good player
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 26, 2021, 01:05:01 AM
Googled 2019 mock draft.  Clicked on first 3 results: Bleacher Report, NBA Draftnet, and a site I never heard of https://nbadraftroom.com/.
All have Morant #2 and RJB #3.

Bleach:
Quote
Ja Morant would help change the Memphis Grizzlies' identity with his pace and explosiveness. The team will have to move on from Mike Conley in the near future, and now is a good time to capitalize on the chance at acquiring a replacement star point guard since Memphis could have a tough time signing one in free agency.

The Grizzlies will give thought to RJ Barrett, particularly given their weak group of wings. But Morant is perceived to offer more upside with his mix of athleticism, playmaking and flashes of shooting improvement that could put his offensive game over the top.

Memphis could soon have an exciting young core featuring Morant and Jaren Jackson Jr.

Incidentally, ATL moved up from #8 to #4.
They sent NOPe #17 & 35 and got Sol Hill (starting for them now on a 2way contract) and real late #57.

Nice move, since they didn't need Garland or Coby White, with Trae as their scoring/ no-defense G.  Besides those guy went 5 & 7 respectively.  And they didn't really need a PF such as Jax Hayes, Rui, Cam Johnson since they have John Collins.

Plus ATL had 3 1st rounders, so moved the mid-round pick to jump 4 slots and get the 3&D wing they hunted in Hunter.  They really needed defense on the wing and got their guy.

Howsoever, with the #10 pick they tabbed Cam Reddish.  While he's athletic and intriguing -- his draft classmates voted him likely to have the best career! -- but a real mess for now.  #11-13: Cam Johnson, PJ Wash and Ty Hero.

So they could have had a sharpshooting PF or lights out Herro at SG.  All shooting above 37% - 38% on 3's.  An extra shooter would have been useful.  Draft Cam John and you don't need to blow a lot of money at Gallo, who can't guard Sf's anymore and is oft-injured and uh, expensive.  With PJ Wash, you would have more leverage in contract talks with Collins (and a sign and trade of Collins would be more of an option).  Collins reportedly looking for near max money which is insane.
Hero just a damn tough cover and sharpshooter every team could use.

So the targeted move up for Hunter was very nice.
The Cam Red #10 pick quite suspect.
The #17 pick turned out to be N A-W who I've barely seen.  But gets good reviews.
Brandon Clarke and Thybulle (not likely after the Hunter pick) were also available there.  Along with solid team player Grant Williams.

Still no idea what RedCam's career will be like ...
Tyreke Evans or Oladipo in Joe Johnson's body?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 26, 2021, 01:39:42 AM
BTW, https://nbadraftroom.com/p/2019-nba-mock-draft/ has pretty ridiculous player comparisons.  Tends to make me believe it's written by young fellers.

Bol Bol = Rik Smits; Porzingis

Grant Williams = Dray Green; PJ Tucker

RJB = Grant Hill; Angry Wiggins

Ja Morant = taller Iverson; turbo D'Angelo Russell

Cam Reddish = more athletic Joe Johnson

oh-kay ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 26, 2021, 01:42:24 AM
Torrid Craig 20 & 14 off the bench for PHX.
No idea why he didn't work out in MIL.
A nice two-way energy guy; I had him as a possible Knick FA 3&D Sf pickup.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 26, 2021, 02:18:44 AM
Bol Bol won’t have his man body for another three years or so if he stays healthy. He’s going to be a key piece somewhere in the not too distant future.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 26, 2021, 04:07:19 AM
I guess they simply mean that Bol Bol will be a good shot-blocker with an outside shot.  But Smits and KZ have touched all-star status.  Can Bol Bol reach such heights?  Anyway, at least they were willing to compare a black player to white ones.  Used to be that was nearly taboo going both directions.  I don't see player comps that often, though always find them fun, but hopefully informal racial boundaries have been dropped.

There was one play I really found interesting in the ATL game.  I believe it was early OT.  A hot Bogdan handling on the left elbow.  Randle cheats off the near corner to dissuade a Bogdan drive.  But Bog notices Randle too far over and kicks to Sol Hill in the corner, who drives hard as Randle tries to recover.  SolHill not the fleetest, but Randle is beat (shouldn't overcheat on the strong side).  RJB sees the trouble and comes zooming over to contest at the nearside rim.  Hill goes under for a farside layup, but Nawlins also came over for a hard contest and easily blocks the layup attempt.

It was impressive how quickly RJB and Noel reacted and swarmed to the ball.  Now if it was a guard or someone with more court vision, they could have seen Nawlins come over, and with 3 Knix sucked into the paint there's a pair of someones open.  A potential drop off to the C in the paint or kick out to the right elbow. 
But the collapsing Knick defense puts a lot of pressure on the ballhandler to identify the open man while bodies are in motion.  And while evading RJB's contest, it's easy to miss Noel diving down. 

Another wrinkle is that a Knick guard (I'm pretty sure Quix) stunts towards the right elbow shooter and then redirects to cover the right corner shooter.  So in the brief passing window it's hard to tell who Quickly is guarding and which passing lane is open.  Nice undermanned trickery.  A lot to process in a second or two, not easy to suss out the drop off paint pass or get it to an outside shooter.  Really teams should know that the Knix collapse hard on drives and try to kick to open/waiting shooters.  But it's not so easy to execute when bodies are flying around and the pressure is on.

That play just encapsulated the Knick suffocating defense.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 26, 2021, 08:09:20 AM
I like Hachimura over Hunter
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on April 26, 2021, 12:11:01 PM
a few interesting Knicks knibbles on a recent Zach Lowe podcast. Not too keen on Zach Lowe - he's sort of a smug, screechy 13yo captain obvious type...Pelton is a big analytics guy and sees to be more dispassionate and thoughtful....the Knicks stuff is in the second half of the podcast, it's Friday's podcast (April 23)

 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-lowe-post/id986595124#episodeGuid=e4b44226-7d07-11eb-bf4f-5b96801515e4
 (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-lowe-post/id986595124#episodeGuid=e4b44226-7d07-11eb-bf4f-5b96801515e4)



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 26, 2021, 12:36:59 PM
Are we discussing John Collins to NY should ATL not satisfy him?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 26, 2021, 12:46:19 PM
Why would we?
Collins is a PF.
Wants Big Money.
Not a great defender.
Don't see the fit.
Title: Looking Ahead
Post by: chipstern on April 26, 2021, 01:41:16 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 26, 2021, 12:46:19 PM
Why would we?
Collins is a PF.
Wants Big Money.
Not a great defender.
Don't see the fit.

We also have that Obi Toppin fellow.  Who is playing behind Julius and Taj. 

Collins is a very nice offensive player, but doesn't play big, or big defense, and wants a max contract. 

Spoil sport that I am, my sense of things is to stay focused on the moment, and for the first time in memory, we are not projecting lottery position but a playoff run. 

Still, it is hard not to look deeper into the summer, the draft, free agency and beyond. 

Walt Perrin is our draft guru, based on his track record in Utah. 

With the 21, 22, 33 picks based on the current standings, Frank due to be considered/or-not for a qualifying offer, some sort of conclusive thoughts on Kevin moving forward/or-not and a significant number of FAs one would suspect Thibs is invested in bringing back [Rose, Noels, Bullock, Burks, Taj], while IT IS SURELY PREMATURE TO BE PROJECTING THIS while we are fighting for the best playoff/post-season seeding, it would seem that the Knicks might very well look to get creative with Frank, Kevin and our three draft picks.  Either moving up in the draft, or looking to convert this year's picks into 2022-2023 picks...more vets? 

Robinson-Noels-Gibson-Pelle-Shittu
Randle-Toppin
Bullock-Burks-Knox
RJ-Ntilikina-Pinson-Powell
Rose-Quickley-Harper-Payton

The strike throughs indicate players who might be on the bubble, slotted for G League, trade bait...

Clearly if we want to bring back Rose-Noels-Bullock-Burks-Gibson, pay raises are in order. 

Thibs respects Payton, and while his rough outings tend to make folks forget about the generally positive contributions he's made, you've got to think the Knicks are looking for an upgrade through the draft, trades or free agency. 

As always, I am pulling for my Lilliputian Harper, but I suspect that ain't happenning. 

The Halliburon/Toppin debate will linger well into the future, but in all fairness to the Knicks brain trust, no one going into the draft was projecting Randle to metastisize into the second coming of Bob McAdoo/Maurice Lucas/Zach Randolph, let alone a poor man's Larry Bird [okay, that is a stretch, but stats wise, leadership, three pointers, assists, hey....]

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 26, 2021, 02:09:58 PM
Wonder if Crowder (ankle) will play.  PHX's best defender on Randle.
Julius should be able to eat Saric alive.  Mik Bridges can do some pestering but he's not beefy.  Torey Craig is game but not big.  Cam Johnson not tough enough.
If they can mix it up mostly with Crowder, some Bridges, and not much Saric, it'll make Julius work.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 26, 2021, 02:14:51 PM
I guess they simply mean that Bol Bol will be a good shot-blocker with an outside shot.  But Smits and KZ have touched all-star status.  Can Bol Bol reach such heights?  Anyway, at least they were willing to compare a black player to white ones.  Used to be that was nearly taboo going both directions.  I don't see player comps that often, though always find them fun, but hopefully informal racial boundaries have been dropped.


Seems to have a nice stroke

13-29 career 3 pters
15-22 from the line.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 26, 2021, 02:18:07 PM
Collins is a very nice offensive player, but doesn't play big, or big defense, and wants a max contract.


Not sure we will simply be in the chinese menu mode (pick one from column a, one from b, .....)

If a guy wants to come, we should have interest

Getting to Finals is about collecting assets, first and foremost.  It is only the very rare teams that can piece it together perfectly by position

And yes, I can see Toppin playing with Randle and Collins.  I could also see Toppin going in a deal dependin g on who we do acquire and if Julius does extend.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 26, 2021, 02:38:47 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 26, 2021, 02:09:58 PM
Wonder if Crowder (ankle) will play.  PHX's best defender on Randle.
Julius should be able to eat Saric alive.  Mik Bridges can do some pestering but he's not beefy.  Torey Craig is game but not big.  Cam Johnson not tough enough.
If they can mix it up mostly with Crowder, some Bridges, and not much Saric, it'll make Julius work.

This could be where the streak ends.  I hope we dont get any complaining if it does

ESPN guys were saying PHX-BK could be a Finals preview - that is how much they like the Suns.

Who knows - wide open in West
Title: Re: Looking Ahead
Post by: Kam on April 26, 2021, 05:20:55 PM
Quote from: chipstern on April 26, 2021, 01:41:16 PM


Clearly if we want to bring back Rose-Noels-Bullock-Burks-Gibson, pay raises are in order. 


Out of this group I think most on the bubble for coming back is Burks.  Burks is great to have but might be a luxury we can't afford.

Bullock should be the priority alongside Rose.  Pencil in Gibson as a nice to have probable to return given his fit with Thibs.

I think of Bullock Rose and Gibson as Thibs glue guys.  The group most likely to give efficient steady play and defensive grit.

Reggie can be offered 10-12mil which is a little more than twice his current salary.
Rose. 8-10mil which is a small raise from his current salary.
Gibson 4-6mil which is a small raise from his current salary.

Basically take Noah's stretch money he got this year and give it to the above three guys.

As for Noel... really difficult to see how he and Mitchell both remain Knicks long term.  We could sign Noel and then shop Mitch next season.  Or see how Mitch comes back and let Noel go and rely on Gibson and free agency / the draft for next seaon.  Or even run it back with both guys one more year. 
Title: Random Quotes
Post by: chipstern on April 26, 2021, 05:36:50 PM
"I think he's a better version of Zion Williamson to me," Oakley said Monday of Julius Randle during an appearance on SiriusXM NBA Radio (h/t Stefan Bondy of the New York Daily News). "Because he can do more. … I said last year, they [the Knicks] didn't have a superstar. And now they got a superstar."

Trying to score a few points with New York basketball fans on Monday, Andrew Yang instead shot an airball.

The mayoral candidate likened the improved New York Knicks, now on a nine-game winning streak and ranked fourth seed in the Eastern Conference, to an “ex-girlfriend that you root for” — but said his youthful relationship with the team was “abusive.”

“I just see the Knicks like an ex-girlfriend that you root for, you know what I mean? Like, you wish her well,” the Democratic front-runner said in an interview with ESPN Radio. “I was a hardcore Knicks fan through my entire childhood. [Patrick] Ewing, [John] Stark, [Charles] Oakley, [Anthony] Mason, the entire gang. But then they dumped Jeremy Lin, and James Dolan just became really hard to root for.”

Later in life, Yang soured on the Knicks — and now roots for the Nets.

Uh, Earth to YANG, the Knicks did NOT DUMP Jeremy Lin. 

There was a contract on the table, but Jeremy and his agent, went out and got a counter offer, a three year contract that was back loaded with 14.9 million in the final year, to make it if not untenable, very unappetizing to the Knicks, who chose not to match and get pushed into luxury tax territory.  Had the Knicks matched the offer sheet, the balloon payment in the third year of the deal would have cost the team at least $35 million in luxury tax penalties.

I was a big fan of Lin, BUT HE FUCKING BLEW IT. 

Had a three year deal with Houston, and they offloaded him before that big third year came do. 
Title: Good Problems To Have
Post by: chipstern on April 26, 2021, 06:22:32 PM
Quote from: Kam on April 26, 2021, 05:20:55 PM
Quote from: chipstern on April 26, 2021, 01:41:16 PM


Clearly if we want to bring back Rose-Noels-Bullock-Burks-Gibson, pay raises are in order. 


Out of this group I think most on the bubble for coming back is Burks.  Burks is great to have but might be a luxury we can't afford.

Bullock should be the priority alongside Rose.  Pencil in Gibson as a nice to have probable to return given his fit with Thibs.

I think of Bullock Rose and Gibson as Thibs glue guys.  The group most likely to give efficient steady play and defensive grit.

Reggie can be offered 10-12mil which is a little more than twice his current salary.
Rose. 8-10mil which is a small raise from his current salary.
Gibson 4-6mil which is a small raise from his current salary.

Basically take Noah's stretch money he got this year and give it to the above three guys.

As for Noel... really difficult to see how he and Mitchell both remain Knicks long term.  We could sign Noel and then shop Mitch next season.  Or see how Mitch comes back and let Noel go and rely on Gibson and free agency / the draft for next seaon.  Or even run it back with both guys one more year.

Interesting scenarios, Kam. 

Don't agree with all of it, but no surprise there. 

Least way, for the first time in memory, WE HAVE OPTIONS.

Of course, a lot depends on how we close out the regular season, and if at the very least we make it to the second round. 

Mitch was getting to his next level when he got hurt. 

Nerlens has taken the increased playing time and responsbility and run with it. 

I don't see Thibs blowing off EITHER of them.  With Taj on ice, or Pelle, or both, Nerlens and Mitch give Thibs 12 hard fouls to deliver and a lockdown platoon of rim guardians. 

Burks on the bubble?  Really?  Why?

Reckon it depends on whom we draft, if we remain committed to Kevin/and-or/Frank. 

Rose, Noels, Gibson, Bullock and Burks have all blossomed and prospered under Thibs and in tandem with Julius. 

For someone who was not seen to be a player development guy, given that Derrick and Taj were old hands on Tom's Farm, if you take Randle, RJ and Quickley's incredible progrss, and factor in the advances Noel, Bullock and Burks have made under Thibs, and the incredible chemistry they have developed with Julius, well, that's a good problem to have. 

As to how this might or might not factor with free agency? 

Might someone like UFA Mike Conley be available at a better price? 

Do we go all in for Dennis Schoreder or is he a LeBron lifer.  Likewise what is his signing ceiling.  Something like Van Vleet's contract? 

Is Lonzo Ball a target?  Excellent court vision, good defender, improving three point shooter.  How high an offer do we go where Pelicans don't match?  Do we do a sign and trade?  Frank and Kevin and the 2023 Dallas pick?  Is that too little or too damn much? 

Might Spencer Dimwiddie be an option?  HAHAHAHA

A lot depends on how charming and disarming and clever Leon and WWW and Perry can be with Derrick, Nerlens, Alec, Reggie and Taj, and in turn, how committed they are to playing with Julius and for Thibs, and to work with management on sustaining and extending on the chemistry and vibe of being on a winning Knicks team come November 2021 in a packed Garden. 

I believe the recent two-way/10-day fandango Rose and WWW and Perry engaged in with Harper and Powell and Pelle and Shittu, indicates that RELATIONSHIPS are important to these managers and former agents. 

Obviously the 2020-2021 free agents were sold on the idea of being part of something, rolling the dice on one year contracts. 

A lot of what Rose and WWW and Perry have done this past season has been to maintain cap space and flex going forward.  When Chris Paul and Van Vleet didn't materialize, and Hayward proved too pricey, they went to Plan B.  Did not toss long term contracts at the likes of Bogdoavich, talented though he may be. 

BB = 18 million x 4 years

NN = 5 million; Burks = 6 million; Bullock = 4 million; Taj =3 million = 18 million x 1 years

Not sexy, not THE BIG SPLASH, but prudent, and because THIBS & His Staff transformed the culture, given how Julius and RJ not only supercharged their games but that of their team mates, transformed chickenship into chicken salad [Smith for Rose], struck gold with IQ and remained patient with Obi, and gor the mostout of Elfrid as a placeholder, they [WE] are in a much more tenable position going into this summer. 

Dolan is many things, but CHEAP is not one of them. 

He gave Leon Rose carte blanche to pay premium for Thibs, not to mention big money for Payne, Bryant, Aller and Perin [and WWW]. 

We are in the playoff hunt, after years of throwing big money at the likes of ego maniacs such as Larry Brown and Phil Jackson and being vilified by fans and press alike. 

So...out of 30 teams, the Knicks have all of their draft picks, and the second lowest payroll in the league, after OKC. 

That's $98,594,081 for 2020-2021, and $49,718,957 for 2021-2022 counting Julius' 19.8  million and the final  $6.4 million of Noah's stretch. 

Reasons to be cheerful. 

Anyway, Kam, sorry to go so over the top on y'all, but based on how the playoff run goes, and the draft, I have to believe that in lieu of significant raises, while their is of course no substitute for money, camraderie counts for something, and...And...AND, AGAIN, How Much Is Playing On A Winning Team In NYC With A YOUNG CORE and an emerging superstar In Front Of 19,800 Howling Fans At The Mecca Worth with a ferocious rivalry across the Brooklyn Bridge looming?

We shall see.

GO KNICKS
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 26, 2021, 08:37:33 PM
JEREMY LIN made SIXTY-FIVE million dollars - and that is just NBA money.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 26, 2021, 09:23:17 PM
Missed the 1st half.
Randle came alive 3Q.
Bridges with an excellent 3Q for PHx
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 26, 2021, 09:27:04 PM
Collins to NYK seems like such a complete non-starter to me.

Agree with Kam, hard to see both Nawlins and Mitch coming back (or at least here more than one more year).  I guess we DnT Mitch.

Cris Paul not doing much and slowing things down.

Best defense I've seen from Cam Johnson.  Fairly solid on many Knix.
I've mostly seen him as a sieve before.  And he's started popping 4Q 3's.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 26, 2021, 09:40:48 PM
Sorry just can't help imagining Bridges on the Knix instead of Knox ...

Rose gets hot and cuts PHX 8 point lead down to 4 (and a terrific almost steal on Book leading to a 24 sec violation).  So PHX swicthes Bridges on to Rose.
Then Bridges pops a corner 3 and drives for a dunk.
Excellent 2nd half for Bridges.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 26, 2021, 09:44:26 PM
This PAUL cat is pretty good.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 26, 2021, 09:44:34 PM
Well NBA this is the level of play you need to beat the Knicks at MSG.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 26, 2021, 09:46:56 PM
Collins to NYK seems like such a complete non-starter to me.


May not be a shortage of guys looking to come in.

And JC wants to stay in ATL

Time'll tell
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 26, 2021, 09:47:54 PM
I do think KNICKS SPEND ALL THEIR CAP SPACE ON KEEPING THEIR OWN is a ridiculous headline
Title: Re: Good Problems To Have
Post by: Kam on April 26, 2021, 09:53:15 PM
Quote from: chipstern on April 26, 2021, 06:22:32 PM
Quote from: Kam on April 26, 2021, 05:20:55 PM
Quote from: chipstern on April 26, 2021, 01:41:16 PM


Clearly if we want to bring back Rose-Noels-Bullock-Burks-Gibson, pay raises are in order. 


Out of this group I think most on the bubble for coming back is Burks.  Burks is great to have but might be a luxury we can't afford.

Bullock should be the priority alongside Rose.  Pencil in Gibson as a nice to have probable to return given his fit with Thibs.

I think of Bullock Rose and Gibson as Thibs glue guys.  The group most likely to give efficient steady play and defensive grit.

Reggie can be offered 10-12mil which is a little more than twice his current salary.
Rose. 8-10mil which is a small raise from his current salary.
Gibson 4-6mil which is a small raise from his current salary.

Basically take Noah's stretch money he got this year and give it to the above three guys.

As for Noel... really difficult to see how he and Mitchell both remain Knicks long term.  We could sign Noel and then shop Mitch next season.  Or see how Mitch comes back and let Noel go and rely on Gibson and free agency / the draft for next seaon.  Or even run it back with both guys one more year.

Interesting scenarios, Kam. 

Don't agree with all of it, but no surprise there. 


Burks on the bubble?  Really?  Why?



As a bench player here he might be seeking a bigger role and more money elsewhere.   That's the only reason.  And rather than match any offer I want to make sure we can retain guys like Bullock and Rose who in my opinion are less easy to replace with their skillset.   

When you rank bench contributors to winning I think Rose, Noel, even IQ have been every bit as important as Burks if not more so.   So how much do you pay your 8th  most valuable guy?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 26, 2021, 09:54:57 PM
I thought CP3 was kind of a mess, then hit a circus shot to beat the shot clock.  And then a killer clinching 3.  But all that pounding made PHX possessions tough at the end of the shot clock frequently.

Bridges was great.  Did any Knick from Randle to Rose score on him in the 4Q?
Actually I think he was caught on that Bullock baseline cut on a nice dime from Rose.  I assume Bridges was trying to cheat off.  Bridges just had a terrific 2-way 2nd half.
And credit to Cam John for bouncing back after a poor 1st half.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 26, 2021, 09:57:53 PM
Knix played down to the buzzer on a game where our main guys weren't on.
Rose did great work.  Loved that semi-steal, and those floaters over Ayton.
Reg Bull was good and strong on D.
Loved that late corner 3 from Randle.
I don't even think the pass was for him.
Randle did have defensive lapses and miscues.
But I'm sure that isn't due to averaging 48.5 minutes per game ...
Title: Re: Random Quotes
Post by: bodiddley on April 26, 2021, 10:01:58 PM
Quote from: chipstern on April 26, 2021, 05:36:50 PM
"I think he's a better version of Zion Williamson to me," Oakley said Monday of Julius Randle during an appearance on SiriusXM NBA Radio (h/t Stefan Bondy of the New York Daily News). "Because he can do more. … I said last year, they [the Knicks] didn't have a superstar. And now they got a superstar."

Right on Oak.
Zion isn't Julius Randle (yet?)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 26, 2021, 10:34:31 PM
I thought CP3 was kind of a mess, then hit a circus shot to beat the shot clock.  And then a killer clinching 3.  But all that pounding made PHX possessions tough at the end of the shot clock frequently.


heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 26, 2021, 10:37:31 PM
Right on Oak.
Zion isn't Julius Randle (yet?)


Oakman shouldnt be lining up for any GM jobs just yet
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on April 26, 2021, 10:41:28 PM
But he seems well-qualified for someone looking for a hot take.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on April 26, 2021, 10:50:09 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 26, 2021, 09:57:53 PM

Randle did have defensive lapses and miscues.
But I'm sure that isn't due to averaging 48.5 minutes per game ...

lol..

Randle has played far better defense this season with fewer lapses and miscues than ever before in his career.

Randle has played far more minutes this season than ever before in his career.

the only logical follow if you want to connect the two: Let's give him more minutes!

** first "heh" i'm 100% behind in awhile...that CP3 stuff is right up there with Lowry had a bad finals against the Warriors!

*** Yang is a fake Knick fan and a general all around fraud, please someone beat him, anyone...

Sad to see the streak end, Happy to see the good hoops continue
Title: Your Dallas Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on April 27, 2021, 12:32:45 AM
Just lost to Sacto.

KP didn’t play AGAIN.

Worthless Prima Donna. F’im!

And good for us 😊

PS. Les, you’re a relentless pit bull. Bad doggie 🐶
Title: Re: Good Problems To Have
Post by: elephant on April 27, 2021, 01:49:10 AM
Quote from: Kam on April 26, 2021, 09:53:15 PM

As a bench player here he might be seeking a bigger role and more money elsewhere.   That's the only reason.  And rather than match any offer I want to make sure we can retain guys like Bullock and Rose who in my opinion are less easy to replace with their skillset.   

When you rank bench contributors to winning I think Rose, Noel, even IQ have been every bit as important as Burks if not more so.   So how much do you pay your 8th  most valuable guy?

This the kind of amnesia a winning streak brings? He's been tremendous. Done everything. Won several games for us when everyone else was anemic on offense. He's clutch and can get his shot off over anyone. And he's done these things consistently this year. A guy like this coming off the bench is a godsend. Way too soon to talk of that bubble shit.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 27, 2021, 03:57:00 AM
Rank your Knicks

Is burks more valuable than Rose?
Is burks more valuable than Noel?
Is burks more valuable than Starter Bullock?

Will Burks himself seek a bigger role?


Bubble guy
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 27, 2021, 05:26:19 AM
Rose is a better 2-way player than Burks and has PG chops.
Burks a scorer, decent on ball defender, but poor team defender.

I think the issue is whether IQ can take over the Burks role full-time.
Maybe not next year, may be so.

Also, are we going to bring in a legit starting PG, say ZoBall.
If not, Rose isn't exactly Mr. Durable.
If Elf is excised, can you count on Rose starting and not breaking down?  Can you count on Quix as backup PG and Burk-style sparkplug.

Guess all I'm saying is that Burks role depends on Quickly's role and much of that depends on who our starting PG is.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 27, 2021, 12:51:03 PM
If there’s a reasonable way to keep Burks, we should. People here underrate his defense even while the recognize that his ball handling and shot making help our offense in ways Reggie cannot.

Quote from: lesterluv on April 26, 2021, 10:50:09 PM

Sad to see the streak end, Happy to see the good hoops continue

100%

Of impending FAs, we should look to keep Rose, Burks, Bullock, Taj, Noel, Kevin, and Frank. I’d only knock someone off this list if and only if we’ve locked in a clear upgrade.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 27, 2021, 01:02:07 PM
Nice article on Quickly (& his mom):
https://theundefeated.com/features/knicks-rookie-immanuel-quickley-thriving-in-new-york/

Quote
That Nitrease Quickley coached her son’s rec league team was no surprise to anyone who knew her credentials.

As a 6-foot forward at Havre de Grace High School, she was a local legend, averaging 14 points and 14 rebounds as a sophomore while leading her team to the state final four. Those skills earned her a Division I scholarship at Morgan State University, where she averaged 10 points in two seasons at the Baltimore HBCU.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 27, 2021, 01:31:22 PM
This the kind of amnesia a winning streak brings? He's been tremendous. Done everything. Won several games for us when everyone else was anemic on offense. He's clutch and can get his shot off over anyone. And he's done these things consistently this year. A guy like this coming off the bench is a godsend. Way too soon to talk of that bubble shit.


With you

I re-sign all three - and then think about Gibson

Not a penny more to Frank or Knox or Harper or Pinson.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 27, 2021, 01:33:31 PM
The key here is which of the four (include Noel) do NOT ACCEPT another one year deal?  As Knicks try to take things back to 40's and 50's MLB with the year at a time M.O.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 27, 2021, 02:03:30 PM
Lock em all into 2, 3, or 4 year deals.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 27, 2021, 02:54:31 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 27, 2021, 02:03:30 PM
Lock em all into 2, 3, or 4 year deals.

Nice thought.  Do we ever want to add free agent talent?  There is a salary cap.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 27, 2021, 04:15:24 PM
I think we could still do both and stay pretty close to the cap which most teams operate over anyway, though I don’t see that many guys coming available who I’d want to throw a hefty bag at.

Gonzo Ball might be the best bet and he isn’t worth much more than Bledsoe money which is more than I’d say Bledsoe himself is worth.

Remember, our rooks will be cheap this year.

Mitch Pelle
Randle Toppin
Knox
RJ Quickley

Are all team controlled. Adding Noah brings it to 50 mil. That leaves us 8 spots and about 68 mil to sign guys.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on April 27, 2021, 04:39:44 PM
Quote from: Kam on April 27, 2021, 02:54:31 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 27, 2021, 02:03:30 PM
Lock em all into 2, 3, or 4 year deals.

Nice thought.  Do we ever want to add free agent talent?  There is a salary cap.

Have you assessed the UFA free agents for 2021?

Slim pickings.

PS: DIDNT WE Add FREE Agents THIS PAST YEAR?

I MUST HAVE DOZED OFF?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 27, 2021, 04:56:57 PM
Quote from: chipstern on April 27, 2021, 04:39:44 PM
Quote from: Kam on April 27, 2021, 02:54:31 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 27, 2021, 02:03:30 PM
Lock em all into 2, 3, or 4 year deals.

Nice thought.  Do we ever want to add free agent talent?  There is a salary cap.

Have you assessed the UFA free agents for 2021?

Slim pickings.

PS: DIDNT WE Add FREE Agents THIS PAST YEAR?

I MUST HAVE DOZED OFF?

2,3,4 year deals go past 2021.  We want to have the ability to sign guys when it is our turn.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 27, 2021, 05:07:20 PM
Not a problem if we make reasonable deals.

Replace Payton with Rose and Rose with Burks and we have a potent 10 or 11 man rotation. Stability and commitment will help us more than inspiration or desperation at this point.
Title: Let Me See If I Understand
Post by: chipstern on April 27, 2021, 09:59:59 PM
Free Agents = LONG TERM CONTRACT

We inked ONE

Julius Randle. 

Working out pretty good. 

When I think of the Knicks and long term contracts? 

Certain names spring to mind. 

Jerome James

Joakim Noah

Howard Eisley

Shandon Anderson

Tim Weatherspoon

Sometimes we strike gold, such as ALLAN HOUSTON, before Don Chaney blew his legs out. 

I kinda like the Rose-WWW-Perry conservative approach. 

I think there are TWO reasonably realistic free agents we could make a run at this summer. 

RFA Lonzo Ball.  If Pelicans match, and a sign and trade is called for, Frank and Kevin could prove a reasonable compensation...maybe toss in the #33 pick? 

UFA DeMar DeRozan.  Saw something interesting where DD apparently would like to come back to compete in the East.  If the price is right, he ain't worth a damn as a 3-point threat, but coming on 32, this SF/SG remains a solid 20 ppg man, gets to the FT line a lot, and is converting at an .887% clip this year with 7.2 assists a game. 

NOT saying we should make a run at him and bid Burks goodbye.  Anymore than I am bidding goodbye to Frank and Kevin. 

But LEON and WWW, PERRY and PERRIN have some interesting decisions regarding our own free agents and how and upon whom we should deploy our draft assets. 

Robinson-Noel-Taj-Pelle
Randle-Toppin
Bullock-Burks
Barrett-Quickley
Ball-Rose

Would look a tad crowded with both Ball AND DeRozan, does it not? 

Anyway, the idle mind is the devil's workshop, and BeElZuhBub does love to stargaze the draft and free agency. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 28, 2021, 01:20:01 AM
We’ll also have 3 rooks to ship as well as future picks if we want to keep Kevin or Frank.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 28, 2021, 06:28:40 AM
Rose was terrific in the 2Q.
Booker was a cold assassin in the 1st half, really carried PHX.
Knix gave a top team all they could handle.

Without knowing lockerroom dynamics, practice and such, I'm inclined to re-sign Nawlins hopefully around $8M a year (3/$25M if possible).  There is a C glut league-wide while teams also go smallball a good deal and want 3-point shooting from all 5 positions.  That is, how much can Father Noel cash in elsewhere?

Hang on to Taj and Pelle.  And look to sign and trade Mitch.  He's probably more expensive than Nawlins, somewhat injury-prone, and occasionally mopey.
MitchRob is a solid asset and we should be able to get something decent back for him.  Maybe Mitch and Franc go out in a deal for BallZo.  Flipping a good young C, where we have a surplus, for a good young PG seems smart.

Could keep Mitch -- what does he get $10M - $13M? -- and let Noel walk.
Mitch and Noel are so similar that I'd want to keep one and Taj who offers a different skill set and relentless rebounding.  Do folks notice how many O-boards Taj gets his hands on?  Pelle looks like a cheap serviceable 3rd C.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 28, 2021, 06:45:39 AM
Anf Simons hit his first 9 treys.
27 points in 24 mins.
Tied an NBA record of 13 straight 3's (over 4 games in his case).
A young guy I've had an eye on.
I thought with Trent's sharpshooting, Simons could be had relatively cheaply.
But they moved Trent.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 28, 2021, 09:00:24 AM
RFA Lonzo Ball.  If Pelicans match, and a sign and trade is called for, Frank and Kevin could prove a reasonable compensation...maybe toss in the #33 pick?


Why would NO want those guys?

Frank would need a multi-year deal
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 28, 2021, 09:21:27 AM
MitchRob is a solid asset and we should be able to get something decent back for him.  Maybe Mitch and Franc go out in a deal for BallZo.  Flipping a good young C, where we have a surplus, for a good young PG seems smart.


More sensible
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 28, 2021, 10:02:34 AM
Kanter 12 & 14 in 15 mins.
9 O-boards in 15 mins.

Checking out 2nd half of Pels v. Clips.  Large NOPe lead.
Main takeaway: Cousin Boogie is a mess.

Posts up and is visibly annoyed he doesn't get the ball.
Pass goes into T Mann on the other side and sails out of bounds, and Boogie's body language is so bad I'm surprised he didn't stamp his feet.  Geez.

Then Boogie has the ball up top and twice in a 2 min span he gets stripped, failing to see the double team coming both times.    Down 16 with 32 secs left in 3Q Boogie secures a rebound and his outlet gets blocked by the Pel in front of him, for a steal and another late NOPe possession.   Christ, I'd waive Cousins before the 4Q started.

Only positive for 3Q Boogie was he got the ball inside, missed the layup, missed the tip, then tipped it in.
Title: Enes the Menece
Post by: carlos123 on April 28, 2021, 10:27:15 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 28, 2021, 10:02:34 AM
Kanter 12 & 14 in 15 mins.
9 O-boards in 15 mins.

Plus 3 assists and 1 block.

I keep saying he should be getting more minutes if the damned Portland Knicks want to win.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 28, 2021, 11:25:51 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 28, 2021, 06:45:39 AM
Anf Simons hit his first 9 treys.
27 points in 24 mins.
Tied an NBA record of 13 straight 3's (over 4 games in his case).
A young guy I've had an eye on.
I thought with Trent's sharpshooting, Simons could be had relatively cheaply.
But they moved Trent.

Thanks for the tip.  Just added Simons today for my fantasy playoffs.  I have had him off and on in this inconsistent season.

I think most of us were on the "why would they trade him?" side of Simons talk.
Title: BoD's Stratagems
Post by: chipstern on April 28, 2021, 11:31:40 AM
Mark me down as fervently oppossed to your proposal to offload Mitchell Robinson. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 28, 2021, 11:39:29 AM
Lillard & McCJ are a poor defensive backcourt.
So you need some D out there; Kanter for all his boarding and interior scoring is a sieve on D.

I tuned in to the NOPe game to check out Zion more.
But odd game for ZW,
23 points on very good FG%, 5 assists, but 3 turnovers and just 1 rebound.
6-11 FT.  Made a poor early 4Q read for a wide open Batum 3. 
Made his only 3.

Ingram was aggressive 3Q.
Bledsoe had a strong 3Q.
With Grizzled Adams out, Willy Hernancortez had a nice game.
Coach and announcers praising him as a real pro, always ready, etc.
Ball not far off a triple-double.  Could have looked for his own shot more.
Seems if they can get Bled & Ball working in the same game, they are a stronger team.
It's still seems like a team in search of an identity.
Title: Re: BoD's Stratagems
Post by: bodiddley on April 28, 2021, 11:42:47 AM
Quote from: chipstern on April 28, 2021, 11:31:40 AM
Mark me down as fervently oppossed to your proposal to offload Mitchell Robinson.

Are you going to:
1) pay Mitch, Noel and Taj?  Invest a bunch of money in C's?
(are we still paying Noah next year?)
2) Keep Mitch and let Noel go? 
run with Mitch, Taj, Pelle
3) Let Taj go?
(mistake imo)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 28, 2021, 11:47:26 AM
Taj isnt of importance, Bo - come on - dont get crazy

If we decide to keep Mitch long term and are fortunate enough that Nerlens signs on, Gibson is gravy.  Still, yes - a very good talent in our system - and I'd think a minimum salary guy - those dont really cost in filling a roster
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 28, 2021, 11:49:22 AM
I would think the Pelle add was due to the other factors (of who else would be willing to stay at our price)

If all three are in our $$ range, Norvelle's deal is not guaranteed fully - and he is asked to sign a 2-way or let go
Title: Re: BoD's Stratagems
Post by: chipstern on April 28, 2021, 12:02:48 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 28, 2021, 11:42:47 AM
Quote from: chipstern on April 28, 2021, 11:31:40 AM
Mark me down as fervently oppossed to your proposal to offload Mitchell Robinson.

Are you going to:
1) pay Mitch, Noel and Taj?  Invest a bunch of money in C's?
(are we still paying Noah next year?)
2) Keep Mitch and let Noel go? 
run with Mitch, Taj, Pelle
3) Let Taj go?
(mistake imo)

I'll take "If It Ain't Broke Don't Fix It" For $500, Alex. 

Yes, next year is the final year of Noah's stretch [at $6.4 million], and what of it? 

You seem to think that "investing a bunch of money in centers" is a bad idea.

We part ways on THAT. 

Pelle is a taller Theo Pinson, and a good insurance policy. 

You seem to have forgotten how well Mitchell was playing when he got hurt. 

And while both Nerlens and Mitchell are essentially rim protectors, their roles in the offense differ. 

Since when is having 12 fouls to give a bad thing. 

Finally, we do not know how Nerlens will approach the offseason, though I suspect his bond with his team mates, his growth under Thibs, and the allure of being part of something posisitve and on the rise in THE MECCA, will have some play on his thought process. 

As for Taj, he was brought in to be situational and has excelled, whether in or out of the rotation.  I don't believe Gibson will be expecting mega bucks. 
Title: Down Argentine Way
Post by: chipstern on April 28, 2021, 12:35:58 PM
https://www.basketball-reference.com/international/players/luca-vildoza-1.html

Knicks are apparently [well, allegedly] in hot pursuit of LUCA VILDOZA, a 6'3", 25 years old Argentine point guard/combo guard.

Knicks want Luca Vildoza now
Chema de Lucas: The Knicks will try to sign Luca Vildoza (Baskonia) right away. – via Twitter chemadelucas

Here are some YouTube highlights of his 2020-21 season. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnMAKd3m7mw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnMAKd3m7mw)

Interesting.  Some of his moves at the top of the key to create space and separation, remind me of some recent Derrick Rose machinations.  And among the highlights are some defensive moves.  Will be 26 in August. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 28, 2021, 12:49:06 PM
Why is he a free agent?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 28, 2021, 01:12:04 PM
He’s not. He wrote an NBA buyout into his contract and decided to execute it once we came calling.

Good size, prime age, good recent play in the Spanish League. Let’s see what he brings to the table.
Title: Re: BoD's Stratagems
Post by: lesterluv on April 28, 2021, 01:21:57 PM
Quote from: chipstern on April 28, 2021, 12:02:48 PM
Since when is having 12 fouls to give a bad thing. 


Every contender needs elite rim protection.

The center-as-disposable-replaceable-commodity myth is right up there with stolen elections in Georgia and Arizona and Jewish control of the MediaSuperComputer on Mars.

48 minutes of Mitch + Noel is an extraordinary competitive advantage.

That said, would we consider packaging Mitch as part of the payoff for a wonderous A-list piece? Of course.

Do we give Noel some crazy huge cap killing monster contract? Of course not.

*** though he will surely be looking for some decent scratch, still has to make up for that 4year70mil he turned down

But seriously folks, those two start us off in a real nice place.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 28, 2021, 01:26:36 PM
4) hold Mitch to his $1.8M deal; re-sign Nawlins (+ Taj on the cheap)
Figure it out next year.
Risks having an unhappy Mitch.

Boogie goes comical early 4Q.
Pels throw a long outlet pass to Lonzo.  Boogie is back, mainly because he was so slow coming upcourt on the Clips possession.  Zo sees Booger and veers out to the 3 point line.  Boogie can't be bothered.  BallZo waits a couple secs, Boogie ain't going out there, so Zo finally shoots the 3.  It kicks around the rim and Jax Hayes runs right past Cousins and tips the rebound, but somehow misses.  Wow.

Fwiw, Hoopshype has Randle 12th in their MVP list
https://hoopshype.com/lists/2020-21-nba-mvp-race-rankings-rumors-jokic-giannis-embiid-curry-kawhi/
Behind a whole bunch of gimps who don't play much.
Title: Happy Mitch
Post by: chipstern on April 28, 2021, 02:00:24 PM
Do you really think Leon is stupid enough to reup NN and leave Mitchell in hell?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 28, 2021, 02:49:35 PM
What hell?  Cant buy a penthouse?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 28, 2021, 02:52:46 PM
I think Leon has a lot more leverage now than he would if Mitch were still playing. There could be a somewhat team friendly extension in the offing if our FO plays its cards right.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 28, 2021, 02:53:56 PM
Burks is out of protocols. I hope he quickly finds his legs.
Title: Re: BoD's Stratagems
Post by: Kam on April 28, 2021, 04:30:21 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on April 28, 2021, 01:21:57 PM
Quote from: chipstern on April 28, 2021, 12:02:48 PM
Since when is having 12 fouls to give a bad thing. 


Every contender needs elite rim protection.

The center-as-disposable-replaceable-commodity myth is right up there with stolen elections in Georgia and Arizona and Jewish control of the MediaSuperComputer on Mars.

48 minutes of Mitch + Noel is an extraordinary competitive advantage.

That said, would we consider packaging Mitch as part of the payoff for a wonderous A-list piece? Of course.

Do we give Noel some crazy huge cap killing monster contract? Of course not.

*** though he will surely be looking for some decent scratch, still has to make up for that 4year70mil he turned down

But seriously folks, those two start us off in a real nice place.

This is indeed a good problem to have.

I think the question becomes how much money do we invest in 48minutes worth of the Center position?

I think Mitch and Noel would put us well north of 20 mil
I think Noel and Taj or Mitch and Taj would have us under 20 mil

Sign everybody?   Might work for a one year deal but not going to be cost-effective long term.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 28, 2021, 05:02:41 PM
Dude

Mitch doesn't get more than 1.8 next year

'22-'23 we can spoil him
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 28, 2021, 05:47:53 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on April 28, 2021, 05:02:41 PM
Dude

Mitch doesn't get more than 1.8 next year

'22-'23 we can spoil him

Noel's free agency complicated things.  Mitch doesn't get more than 1.8 but if we give Nerlens 12-14mil then how do we give Mitch any less? 

As I said before.... it might work for one more year but long-term we risk painting ourselves into a corner.

That's why Noel might be signed by another team this offseason as we don't fight too hard to keep him knowing we have to sign Mitch eventually.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 28, 2021, 06:46:19 PM
Yeah...

I think just one year offer to Noel unless we can get him at something like 3-21
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 28, 2021, 08:34:50 PM
Good half for Elfrid

Probably the last we see of him
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 28, 2021, 09:55:16 PM
Nice to leave town with a cushion. Rumors of imports must have lit a fire under Elf. He played one of his better games. Julius was the boss but it took Quickley to wake us up even if he used almost all of his fouls to do it.

Nice win.

35-28 at the moment or something like that.

Holding serve out west would really help. That means getting at least one nobody thinks we should.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 28, 2021, 10:02:48 PM
Burks has a week to get himself back in shape before we see Denver.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on April 28, 2021, 10:08:22 PM
Quote from: Kam on April 28, 2021, 05:47:53 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on April 28, 2021, 05:02:41 PM
Dude

Mitch doesn't get more than 1.8 next year

'22-'23 we can spoil him

Noel's free agency complicated things.  Mitch doesn't get more than 1.8 but if we give Nerlens 12-14mil then how do we give Mitch any less? 

As I said before.... it might work for one more year but long-term we risk painting ourselves into a corner.

That's why Noel might be signed by another team this offseason as we don't fight too hard to keep him knowing we have to sign Mitch eventually.

Inconceivable that we let Noel go.

It's fair to question Robinson's resilience. The dude is reckless — which I love. Crashes to the floor as much as any big. But can he play healthy? I've got no idea.

You really going to roll the dice on that?
Title: ENES THE MENACE!!! - 2
Post by: carlos123 on April 28, 2021, 10:43:55 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 28, 2021, 11:39:29 AM
Lillard & McCJ are a poor defensive backcourt.
So you need some D out there; Kanter for all his boarding and interior scoring is a sieve on D.

Are you sure Kanter is STILL a sieve? Or are you just assuming his game hasn't changed from when he was an actual Knick instead of a Portland Knick?

All I know is that he now has plenty of assists and blocks, which were nonexistent back then.

Also, that Portland wins a lot more when he plays more minutes.

Hell, Even Kamster the Hamster is now an Enes booster!!!

Obviously, I'm making up the bit about Kamster the Hamster 😜

PS. GREAT WIN TONIGHT!

GO KNICKS!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 29, 2021, 01:58:57 AM
Quote from: elephant on April 28, 2021, 10:08:22 PM
Quote from: Kam on April 28, 2021, 05:47:53 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on April 28, 2021, 05:02:41 PM
Dude

Mitch doesn't get more than 1.8 next year

'22-'23 we can spoil him

Noel's free agency complicated things.  Mitch doesn't get more than 1.8 but if we give Nerlens 12-14mil then how do we give Mitch any less? 

As I said before.... it might work for one more year but long-term we risk painting ourselves into a corner.

That's why Noel might be signed by another team this offseason as we don't fight too hard to keep him knowing we have to sign Mitch eventually.

Inconceivable that we let Noel go.

It's fair to question Robinson's resilience. The dude is reckless — which I love. Crashes to the floor as much as any big. But can he play healthy? I've got no idea.

You really going to roll the dice on that?

Noel is dependable and defensively stalwart, but doesn't have great hands offensively to catch and finish like Mitch.  I kind of agree with you that we could value Noel's ability and availability (if he comes at a significantly lesser price tag) over Mitch's promise and offensive brilliance. 

To play the other side though... Mitch is the NBA single season FG% leader!   It's also inconceivable we let that go!! This is why it's a fascinating topic of discussion.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 29, 2021, 02:00:52 AM
It’s a Hard Knicks Life
@HardKnicksLife
·
4h
Knicks players 22 & under (RJ, Obi and Quickley) outscored the entire Bulls roster 20 to 19 in the 4th quarter.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 29, 2021, 02:22:48 AM
Earlier in the year I was checking in with POR, when McCJ was out and Lillard carrying the team.  Kanter's D just was the same as everywhere he's been.  But his boarding is better.  Lost interest in POR 2nd half of the season.

The only West teams I've seen a good amount -- SacKings and PHX.  Then some DaL & UtaH.  I would watch some Clips if they ever court a healthy full squad.

ChiBulls looked disorganized.  Coby White can't really run a team.
Vuj wound up with a big game after being a mess early
I like Markkanen -- would look good on the Knix.
Beat RJB backdoor a number of times.
Pat Will never seems to be much involved when I see the Bulls (probably just v. NYK -- cause why would you want to watch a Bulls game).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on April 29, 2021, 03:00:40 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 29, 2021, 02:22:48 AM
Earlier in the year I was checking in with POR, when McCJ was out and Lillard carrying the team.  Kanter's D just was the same as everywhere he's been.  But his boarding is better.  Lost interest in POR 2nd half of the season.

The only West teams I've seen a good amount -- SacKings and PHX.  Then some DaL & UtaH.  I would watch some Clips if they ever court a healthy full squad.

ChiBulls looked disorganized.  Coby White can't really run a team.
Vuj wound up with a big game after being a mess early
I like Markkanen -- would look good on the Knix.
Beat RJB backdoor a number of times.
Pat Will never seems to be much involved when I see the Bulls (probably just v. NYK -- cause why would you want to watch a Bulls game).

Marrkkanen?

So.

Who sits?

Reggie

Obi

JULIUS?

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 29, 2021, 06:41:25 AM
Markk could easily take ObiT's scant time and relieve Julius of 5 mins a game. 
Randle 34 - Mark 14 on average.  Another bench scorer/big.

Depends what you project Topping as.  I'd rather Mark shooting 3's and spacing the floor than ObiT.  Markk 3" taller and just 1 year and 2 months older than ObiT.  Markk more advanced and experienced.

The only real issue to me is what Mark needs to get paid, as ObiT is on the rook scale for a few more years.  But that's exactly why Markk could be had.
Bulls haven't done well developing yute.  And have had a lot of shuffling and re-shuffling.  So far the only skills i've seen from ObiT are boarding -- which we have plenty of -- and running the floor.  Of course, ObiT hasn't had much chance to excel ... but also would be out there more if his D and game were ready for it.  Thibs trusts RJB and half-trusts Quix.  Obi gotta earn time and trust.

Marxx has size and skill.  And I think he could help these Knix.   Again, if he were a finished product, he wouldn't be available on the semi-cheap.  Markk could open driving lanes for Quix and Rose while getting open 3's.  Also getting some PnR oops.
Untapped potential.  And I think he could play tougher if asked to under Thibs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 29, 2021, 07:28:00 AM
Bulls much more coherent 3Q when their Bigs handled the ball and Coby W was either spotting up/uninvolved or out of the game.  Vuc dominated 3Q.

Refs missed a number of calls.  RJB forearmed Coby in the mouth on a drive, and they just called it out of bounds on White.  Thad slammed into Randle on the fast break and got the call.  Though the NBA tends to let the offensive player offend and get calls.  Lotta bad 3Q calls.

But 2Q, Vuc got called for getting in the landing zone of Randle on a 3.  But it sure looked like Randle unnaturally extended his leg out a few feet for no reason (except to feign encroachment by Vuc).  Otherwise Vuc was two feet away from Randle's left foot and where his right should have come down.  It was a physical game and mistakes happen, but the refs had a bad game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 29, 2021, 09:20:50 AM
Quote from: elephant on April 28, 2021, 10:08:22 PM
Quote from: Kam on April 28, 2021, 05:47:53 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on April 28, 2021, 05:02:41 PM
Dude

Mitch doesn't get more than 1.8 next year

'22-'23 we can spoil him

Noel's free agency complicated things.  Mitch doesn't get more than 1.8 but if we give Nerlens 12-14mil then how do we give Mitch any less? 

As I said before.... it might work for one more year but long-term we risk painting ourselves into a corner.

That's why Noel might be signed by another team this offseason as we don't fight too hard to keep him knowing we have to sign Mitch eventually.

Inconceivable that we let Noel go.

It's fair to question Robinson's resilience. The dude is reckless — which I love. Crashes to the floor as much as any big. But can he play healthy? I've got no idea.

You really going to roll the dice on that?

Good post

But I think it's still a money talks league - and there will be other options.  No doubt Pelle is here as a buffer.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 29, 2021, 09:23:19 AM
ChiBulls looked disorganized.  Coby White can't really run a team.


LaVine was out, right?

Just a small issue - heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Knicks321 on April 29, 2021, 09:38:14 AM
Nice win Knicks! Keep it up! 8)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 29, 2021, 10:19:05 AM
Luca Vildoza signing is official

Eligible for post season
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 29, 2021, 10:41:27 AM
Yeah, Knix got another team without its leading scorer.
And in fairness to CHiBulls, Vuc & Theis are newcomers.
Still they only played hard for the middle two quarters.
And it was hard to see what role PaWilliams and Markk were supposed to fill.
They were after-thoughts.

Thad Young does a lot well, but notice how many times the ball was kicked out to Thad at the 3-point line and he simply wasn't going to shoot.
Last year he took 3.5 triples per game and hit at a 35.6% rate.
But this year he doesn't hoist, just 0.6 3's per game and a 27% success rate.

Ideally those passes would have been going to ZLeV.  Or from Zach to Coby or another Bulls shooter.
Title: In other news
Post by: Kam on April 29, 2021, 01:09:04 PM
Forum fave (and my Knicks pick) Ty Haliburton a team worst -42 last night
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 29, 2021, 01:11:51 PM
Wow - that's tough to do
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 29, 2021, 02:10:37 PM
He’ll hit the gym in his long offseason and hopefully set himself up to bang a bit more going forward so there is less of a glaring way to limit him offensively and exploit him on the other end.
Title: Meanwhile, Back On Planet Earth
Post by: chipstern on April 29, 2021, 02:19:06 PM
The New York Knicks have been in advanced negotiations with TD System Baskonia’s Luca Vildoza and only details are left to finalize the deal. According to Chema de Lucas and Eurohoops sources, the Spanish team will receive two million dollars for the buyout if the sides find an agreement. – via EuroHoops.net
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 29, 2021, 02:23:50 PM
UTA with Mitchell & Conley out set a franchise record for most points.
SacK missing Fox & Barnes.
TyH 16 & 8 in 30 mins.
Very erratic poor defending team.  tyH one of the few defensive bright spots.
They have been starting MoHark recently for extra D.
Giving up nearly 120 PPG (dead last)
Luke on the clock.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 29, 2021, 02:26:05 PM
http://basketball.realgm.com/analysis/262408/Its-Always-Better-To-Try (http://basketball.realgm.com/analysis/262408/Its-Always-Better-To-Try)

Haven’t seen it said better anywhere.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 29, 2021, 02:43:16 PM
He really needed to mention Reg Bullox ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 29, 2021, 04:30:57 PM
Austin Rivers to get plenty of pre-playoff run

Denver signs him to second contract

AR averaging 24 minutes over 5 games
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 29, 2021, 04:46:32 PM
Denver is getting desperately thin in their backcourt.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 29, 2021, 06:32:41 PM
In the KNICKS CANT DRAFT FOR SHIT department

Porter Jr averaging 24 and 8 over last 16
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 29, 2021, 06:44:24 PM
Au Revoir 3-18 on 3's with DEN.

Meanwhile 5'10" Argentinian Campazzo doing a nice job at starting PG.
Went for 19 / 10 / 6 + 2 steals & a block v. NOPe.
And a pest on D.
Last 10 games, 44% / 42% / 93%

I was wondering if Campazzo might be the reason the Knix started looking South America way.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 29, 2021, 06:51:04 PM
Au Revoir 3-18 on 3's with DEN.


hahahaaaaa


ooooooo......  rough room
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 29, 2021, 07:00:16 PM
Playoff 3 pt percentage .341

I guess we wait and see
Title: Luca Vildoza Sleeps With The Fishes [Well, The Prignonis Anywho]
Post by: chipstern on April 29, 2021, 07:55:39 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 29, 2021, 06:44:24 PM
Au Revoir 3-18 on 3's with DEN.

Meanwhile 5'10" Argentinian Campazzo doing a nice job at starting PG.
Went for 19 / 10 / 6 + 2 steals & a block v. NOPe.
And a pest on D.
Last 10 games, 44% / 42% / 93%

I was wondering if Campazzo might be the reason the Knix started looking South America way.

Some pretty dope highlights

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1j2_z39S9E&t=131s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1j2_z39S9E&t=131s)

Vildoza was Campazzo's successor in Madrid. 

He likes those Quickley parking lot range threes. 

Has a good handle and a tricky cross over.

Good faciltator. 

Plays defense. 

Is bigger than Campazzo [6'3" svs 5'11"]

Madrid plays big time basketball.

Knicks employ a full time EuroScout, in Kevin Wilson, who lives in Barcelona. 

Part of the hype, GRAIN OF SALT, is that back in 2019 Kobe saw him and was quite taken by his game. 

The lingerinq questions revolve around his speed, quickness and physical attributes. 

Clearly, he can ball...how might it translate to the NBA?

Campazzo?  How about our own beloved PABLO PRIGNONI, a ray of light during an era of Knick Darkness. 

SO. ONCE AGAIN.  All of the dipshits in the media who were mocking the Knicks for not being active on the free agent front at the deadline and failing to get big time shiny objects such as the Earthly Remains Of Oladijpo, are undressed. 

Rivers brought back some #2 picks, and Ignatz's long goodbye opened up roster space. 

All of the shuffling of Two-Way and Ten-Day Contracts bought positive vibes amongst free agents and developmental players, being rewarded financially for their hard work and committment to the Knicks. 

The Knicks went on a competitive run for the roses following the deadline, are no in fourth place in the East on the cusp of a really tough Western Swing, and ended up with useful players very much in the Thibodeau MOLD, in Pelle and Vildoza. 

AGAIN, no shiny objects, no long term contracts, a lot of make do of "talent" that was roundly mocked as if we had farted away our free agency, and did not sign any one of import. 

Rose and WWW, Perry and Perrin, are proceeding as if our front office is committed to player development, with the patience to build a culture...I mean, it is almost as if we...

HAVE A FUCKING PLAN AND ARE STICKING TO IT. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 29, 2021, 09:36:33 PM
In Europe they are allowed to play zone. A driving PG with a rep for three level scoring is doing that against zones you aren’t even allowed to play over here on a more compacted court because of the closer line. A good arrow to put in Thib’s quiver to go along with the Quick, the Elfrid, the Burks and the Rose.

Let’s stay/ get healthy so we can come at teams with the fullest of our fifteen possible.
Title: Re: Luca Vildoza Sleeps With The Fishes [Well, The Prignonis Anywho]
Post by: carlos123 on April 29, 2021, 10:21:28 PM
Quote from: chipstern on April 29, 2021, 07:55:39 PM

Vildoza was Campazzo's successor in Madrid. 

Madrid plays big time basketball.


Campazzo indeed played for Real Madrid.

Vildoza was playing for Baskonia, which is in Vitoria, not Madrid.

Rest of your post, spot on as usual.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 30, 2021, 01:56:01 AM
Vildoza has an odd habit of jumping forward on his 3's.  As in every one of them.  Even on a catch and shoot where he's going left over a screen he still jumps forward on his shot.  His body stays vertical but he lands a foot/foot-and-a-half forward every 3.  Kinda odd. 

Takes some tough shots.  Has some trickery.
All shooting in the first half of the vid, so couldn't evaluate his PG chops (or D), unless passing highlights turn up last 5 mins.

Anyway, nice to see the Knix are hunting up talent.  Must admit early on I was worried we were just signing Kentucky and CAA clients and it was simply a new grift in place.  I mean we've been burned by dumb and stubborn and clueless management for a long time.  But so far these folks are making good cautious moves.  One year deals, a 4 year lottery pick, Thibs vets, etc.  Put defenders around Julius Randle.  Things have gone surprisingly well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 30, 2021, 09:35:59 AM
Vildoza has an odd habit of jumping forward on his 3's.  As in every one of them.  Even on a catch and shoot where he's going left over a screen he still jumps forward on his shot.  His body stays vertical but he lands a foot/foot-and-a-half forward every 3.  Kinda odd.


I will have to see

But as you describe it is not uncommon
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 30, 2021, 10:21:30 AM
KZ gimpy.

ATL with more injury woes.  Unfortunate.
But good for Los Knickeroos.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 30, 2021, 05:20:48 PM
Talk of Randle for Most Improved Player.
Seems almost to slight his achievements.

Breen has mentioned that a bunch on broadcasts, and I've seen Julius for MIP mentioned elsewhere as well.

Kevin Porter the 4th youngest to score 50 or more.
HOU got him for a Top 55 protected future 2nd, meaning for nothing.
Quote
Kevin Porter Jr. is thriving in Houston. With season averages of 15.2 points, 6.2 assists, and 3.8 rebounds per game on 41.1% shooting

He's had off-court incidents and might be another JR Rider, but I watched the 3Q and he was just killing it.  One play he's closely guarded in the corner and just rises up and nails a 3 from a behind-the-backboard angle.  Another he dribbles past 2 defenders just past midcourt and continues past another two near the rim for an And1 lay-in.  Quite the rampage.

NBA Trivia:
Who are the 3 youngest players to score 50?
Title: Fire Sale
Post by: chipstern on April 30, 2021, 06:25:22 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 30, 2021, 05:20:48 PM
Talk of Randle for Most Improved Player.
Seems almost to slight his achievements.

Breen has mentioned that a bunch on broadcasts, and I've seen Julius for MIP mentioned elsewhere as well.

Kevin Porter the 4th youngest to score 50 or more.
HOU got him for a Top 55 protected future 2nd, meaning for nothing.
Quote
Kevin Porter Jr. is thriving in Houston. With season averages of 15.2 points, 6.2 assists, and 3.8 rebounds per game on 41.1% shooting

He's had off-court incidents and might be another JR Rider, but I watched the 3Q and he was just killing it.  One play he's closely guarded in the corner and just rises up and nails a 3 from a behind-the-backboard angle.  Another he dribbles past 2 defenders just past midcourt and continues past another two near the rim for an And1 lay-in.  Quite the rampage.

NBA Trivia:
Who are the 3 youngest players to score 50?

Kevin might have had some issues which never saw the light of day, and there was a run in with the police, which resulted in a weapons charge, which was dropped, then apparently, when the Cavs aquired Jarret Allen and Taurean Prince in the Harden deal, Porter showed up in the locker room and discovered that HIS LOCKER had been given to Prince, and he'd been shifted to a croner where the scrubs had lockers, and he had a meltdown, including food throwing, which did not abate when GM Koby Altman entered the locker room. 

Cavs most DEF gave him away for NOTHING, while the continue to pay Kevin Love 30 million a year.

Not a good look. 

Thinking back to when the Warriors dumped Sprewell, they still got back John Staks, Chris Mills and Terry Cummings [just recalling how much I loved the play of tribal elders Cummings and Buck Williams as we made our playoff run in 97-98 and iced Miami before Indiana put us to sleep].

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on April 30, 2021, 10:30:08 PM
Looking forward to Kid's inevitable "I've always loved Jayson Tatum...more than anyone here" post.
Title: BoZ and Mr. Google
Post by: carlos123 on April 30, 2021, 10:40:06 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on April 30, 2021, 05:20:48 PM

NBA Trivia:
Who are the 3 youngest players to score 50?

Mr. Google responds BoZ's Trivia:

"Porter is just the fourth 20-year-old ever to score 50 points in a game. LeBron James did it twice before his 21st birthday. So did Brandon Jennings, and Devin Booker holds the all-time record with 70 points as a 20-year-old. Porter, only a week short of his 21st birthday, is the oldest of that bunch."

BoZ, you need to find trivia questions that can actually trick Mr. Google. So far, I think you're around 0-40 🤣
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on April 30, 2021, 10:57:56 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on April 30, 2021, 10:30:08 PM
Looking forward to Kid's inevitable "I've always loved Jason Tatum...more than anyone here" post.

Tonight's Gaaaaaden game was one of the more memorable Jekyl and Hyde games in NBA history.
Title: Non-BoZ Trivia Q&A
Post by: carlos123 on April 30, 2021, 11:36:54 PM
And somewhat related to Kevin Porter...

How many points did Kevin Love score today in 22 minutes?

Answer: 0. Yes, you read correctly, ZERO.

Cavs. owe the Love burden to Bron, who demanded to get him on the team.

He’s a softie that I would have never wanted on my team, even when he was still a good scorer.

I remember Chamaco was a big booster, he just can’t resist the attraction of whiteness 👻
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 30, 2021, 11:57:09 PM
Not sure Czarlos understands the concept of trivia Q's.
He keeps fouling.

I had forgotten about Brandon Jennings, who started his career with a bang.
Had a near triple-double 17 / 9 / 9 in his debut (but 5 turns and 5 fouls).
Then in his 7th game, dropped 55 v. the vaunted defense of Monta Ellis and bench Scurry.

I can barely recall his brief stint with the Knix even though it was just 4 years ago.
Title: LOL
Post by: carlos123 on May 01, 2021, 12:33:54 AM
Quote from: BoZizzley on April 30, 2021, 11:57:09 PM
Not sure Czarlos understands the concept of trivia Q's.
He keeps fouling.

I had forgotten about Brandon Jennings, who started his career with a bang.
Had a near triple-double 17 / 9 / 9 in his debut (but 5 turns and 5 fouls).
Then in his 7th game, dropped 55 v. the vaunted defense of Monta Ellis and bench Scurry.

I can barely recall his brief stint with the Knix even though it was just 4 years ago.

What part of trivia Q’s do I not understand?

The part where you had forgotten about Brandon Jennings?

Or the part where, even though you had forgotten about him, you still counted THREE players who scored 50+ while younger than Porter.

BoZ, you’re truly comical, not quite at the supernatural level of Chamaco Cartero, but certainly second on this forum. LOL 😁😂🤣
Title: Remedial Trivia
Post by: bodiddley on May 01, 2021, 01:07:11 AM
Proving my point perfectly.

It's a trivia question.  A small challenge in trying to come up with the correct answer.  You base your answer on what you know and can guess.  Not outside research.  Nobody is trying to stump Google: Google actually doesn't post here. 

I didn't get the answer right -- I forgot Jennings.
But I knew the answer when I asked the question.
Which of course is why I asked for 3 others.

Sheesh.
Title: Re: Remedial Trivia
Post by: carlos123 on May 01, 2021, 01:33:52 AM
Quote from: BoZizzley on May 01, 2021, 01:07:11 AM
Proving my point perfectly.

It's a trivia question.  A small challenge in trying to come up with the correct answer.  You base your answer on what you know and can guess.  Not outside research.  Nobody is trying to stump Google: Google actually doesn't post here. 

I didn't get the answer right -- I forgot Jennings.
But I knew the answer when I asked the question.
Which of course is why I asked for 3 others.

Sheesh.

Ok, you forgot Jennings, but you knew the answer.

You still no making any sense, BoZ.

In the 21st century, I wouldn’t call consulting Mr. Google “outside research”.

Sheesh, I mean Zheezh 🤩
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 01, 2021, 01:39:57 AM
I tried to guess.  I got 2 out of 3.
I asked the question to others so they could try it ... after I knew the answer.
I typed slowly that to help you.

I would suggest if you want to know, you google and keep the answer to yourself so others can actually pursue it as a trivia question if they desire.  Dumbfounding that I actually have to explain how a trivia question works to someone.

And until you have an embedded google chip in your brain, google is indeed, by definition, outside research.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 01, 2021, 01:49:28 AM
Sacramento Halliburton's beat the full-complement Lakers.
TyH 23 & 10 running the Point with Fox out.  Had a key late steal too.

Schroder & Hield couldn't make an outside shot.
Delon Wright was a mess and started to give the game away, then hit a pair of 3's (then missed the rim on another).  Delon was determined but often out of control.

Terence Davis looks good every time I see him.  Fearless attacker.  Solid outside shooter.  Was guarding LeBJ a number of times and AD once or twice down the stretch.  Fighting and clawing to deny position.

The Lake announcers are embarrassing.  They get so much wrong and mostly ignore the opponents.  McLemore gets his corner 3 blocked, and they go on an extended spiel about how quick McL gets his shot off and how well he's shooting this game.  Not even mentioning who blocked his shot.

0.9 left Lakes down 2 and tyH at the FT line.  Makes the first for a 3 point lead, and one Lake announcer thinks he should intentionally miss the 2nd to kill the clock.  Uh, make the FT and Lakes absolutely can't make a 4-point shot with 0.9 left.

I should have switched to another feed.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 01, 2021, 01:50:22 AM
I’m rooting for your foster team, Carlos. They need to pass Dallas.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 01, 2021, 03:27:37 AM
Jason Tatum became the 4th player to score 60 or more before age 24.

NBA Trivia:
Who are the other 3?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 01, 2021, 08:12:20 AM
ATL got Trae, Snell and Dunn back, but Bog (hammy), Huerter (shoulder) and Hunter (knee) all out.  Having serious trouble getting healthy.

Hawks have 7 of last 8 at Home.
PHX; POR and @Ind.
And 4 games v. weak East teams (though Wiz playing better lately).

Knix about to embark on a tough 6 game West journey.
Even HOU has become weirdly dangerous.
Good test coming up.
Knix a cohesive team.

I'm hoping Knix can win a 4-5 matchup (w/ ATl or BOS) and then play #1 BKY in the 2nd round.  That'd be fun.  Knick D v. BKY O.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on May 01, 2021, 11:23:52 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 01, 2021, 03:27:37 AM
Jason Tatum became the 4th player to score 60 or more before age 24.

NBA Trivia:
Who are the other 3?

I may be misremembering but what's a little unusual is that the Garden parquet has been the scene of 3 of the 4 60+ point crimes committed by young assassins. (Booker, Tatum, MJ) and Elgin has one also.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 01, 2021, 12:09:12 PM
True or false?

Five of the ten best players in the NBA are on 2 teams rosters.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 01, 2021, 12:50:57 PM
Dev Book the youngest at 20, nearly 3 full years younger than Tatum.
I guess only regular season games are counted, since Jordan was 23 (of course) in his incredible 63 point playoff performance in Boston.

So gotta say no to MJ (with an asterisk) and Elgin, though of the other two players who scored 60 or more before age 24, one has a close connection to MJ and the other a close connection to Elgin.

Elgin had a 61 point game in BOS 50 years ago.
Title: New BoZ Trivia 🤣
Post by: carlos123 on May 01, 2021, 01:19:01 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on May 01, 2021, 11:23:52 AM
Quote from: BoZizzley on May 01, 2021, 03:27:37 AM
Jason Tatum became the 4th player to score 60 or more before age 24.

NBA Trivia:
Who are the other 3?

I may be misremembering but what's a little unusual is that the Garden parquet has been the scene of 3 of the 4 60+ point crimes committed by young assassins. (Booker, Tatum, MJ) and Elgin has one also.

Mr. Google, AKA The Outside Enemy of BoZizzley, AKA Mr. I-set-the-rules-of-Trivia, says:

"The fourth place is David Thompson, who scored 73 points in 270 days at the age of 23

Although David Thompson may not be the most popular on this list Name, but still can't change. He was once one of the greatest players in basketball history. He is fast, athletic, and very high. In fact, David Thompson is one of only six players in the NBA to score more than 70 points. His highest score even surpassed Michael Jordan. In the game against the Detroit Pistons, he scored 73 points, but this did not prevent the team from losing the game 137 to 139.

The ten youngest NBA players to score more than 60 points in a single game, Michael Jordan made the list three times

The third place is Jerry West, who is 23 years old and scored 63 points in 234 days.

Jerry West He is one of the most influential basketball players in NBA history, not just because of everything he did on the court. It is a pity that when we talk about the greatest player in NBA history, many people usually exclude him from this topic. In addition to being an excellent guard, Jerry West is also a rare scorer, as evidenced by his 63 points against the New York Knicks in 1962. West played such an efficient performance in just 39 minutes. He took 36 shots and made 22 goals. He led the Los Angeles Lakers to a 129-121 victory.

The ten youngest NBA players to score more than 60 points in a single game, Michael Jordan made the list three times

The second Michael Jordan, 23 years old and 62 days, scored 63 points

 is the god of basketball Michael Jordan, this is the third and last time he has appeared on this list, thanks to his masterpiece of more than 60 points. When Jordan participated in his second playoff game, against the Boston Celtics led by Larry Bird, the young man introduced himself to everyone with a 63-point explosive output, which also made Bird claim that "that It's a God pretending to be Michael Jordan". Unfortunately, Jordan led his Chicago Bulls team still failed to win the final victory of the game, because the team finally lost the game 131-135.

The ten youngest NBA players to score more than 60 points in a single game, Michael Jordan made the list three times

First place, Devin Booker, scored 70 points in 145 days at the age of 20

As most young fans have seen, the Suns' German Booker holds the record for the youngest player to score 70 points in NBA history. Unfortunately for him, the Suns lost 120-130 to the Boston Celtics. We only know that Booker was unstoppable on that day. He scored 51 points in the second half and 28 points in the fourth quarter. He made 21 of 40 shots, including 4 three-pointers and 21 free throws."
Title: New BoZ Trivia #2
Post by: carlos123 on May 01, 2021, 01:27:15 PM
Quote from: BoZizzley on May 01, 2021, 12:50:57 PM
Dev Book the youngest at 20, nearly 3 full years younger than Tatum.
I guess only regular season games are counted, since Jordan was 23 (of course) in his incredible 63 point playoff performance in Boston.

So gotta say no to MJ (with an asterisk) and Elgin, though of the other two players who scored 60 or more before age 24, one has a close connection to MJ and the other a close connection to Elgin.

Elgin had a 61 point game in BOS 50 years ago.

Since Mr. I-make-the-rules-of-Trivia just set a new one, Mr. Google will provide a couple of additional answers, just in case:

The eighth place is Tracy McGrady, who scored 62 points in 291 days at the age of 24.

Tracy McGrady's career has been plagued by injuries, but for those who have seen him play. Everyone knows that Tracy McGrady is the most difficult offensive scorer in the world. His elegant jump shot has made many fans and netizens follow suit. Unfortunately, he has never won a championship, but Tracy McGrady can still dominate the crowd because of him. He scored a game-high 62 points against the Washington Wizards, and the team only scored 108 points.

The ten youngest NBA players to score more than 60 points in a single game, Michael Jordan made the list three times

The seventh basketball emperor Chamberlain, who scored 60 points at the age of 24 and 200 days

We wouldn't be surprised to see Chamberlain on this list, because He is the player with the highest score in a single game in the history of the NBA. His height and physical advantage are so great that the NBA had to establish and change some rules to restrict him. Unfortunately, it didn't work. On December 1, 1961 When Chamberlain led the Warriors, he beat the Los Angeles Lakers and scored 60 points. The team won with a score of 138-117. He made 28 of 48 shots.
Title: PRICELESS 👍
Post by: carlos123 on May 01, 2021, 01:34:35 PM
Quote from: BoZizzley on May 01, 2021, 01:39:57 AM
I tried to guess.  I got 2 out of 3.
I asked the question to others so they could try it ... after I knew the answer.
I typed slowly that to help you.

I would suggest if you want to know, you google and keep the answer to yourself so others can actually pursue it as a trivia question if they desire.  Dumbfounding that I actually have to explain how a trivia question works to someone.

And until you have an embedded google chip in your brain, google is indeed, by definition, outside research.

Yes, Oh brilliant MASTER! 😇

Thank you for your generous condescension towards us, inferior types!!! 👹
Title: Going...GOING...?????
Post by: chipstern on May 01, 2021, 01:58:27 PM
(https://images2.minutemediacdn.com/image/fetch/w_736,h_485,c_fill,g_auto,f_auto/https%3A%2F%2Fdailyknicks.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fgetty-images%2F2017%2F07%2F1083934016-850x560.jpeg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on May 01, 2021, 02:08:53 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 01, 2021, 08:12:20 AM

ATL got Trae, Snell and Dunn back, but Bog (hammy), Huerter (shoulder) and Hunter (knee) all out.  Having serious trouble getting healthy.

Hawks have 7 of last 8 at Home.
PHX; POR and @Ind.
And 4 games v. weak East teams (though Wiz playing better lately).
......

I'm hoping Knix can win a 4-5 matchup (w/ ATl or BOS) and then play #1 BKY in the 2nd round.  That'd be fun.  Knick D v. BKY O.

The Wiz are no longer a weak team. Period.

And yeah, that's what we're going for, that 4th or 5th spot. And the second round game against the arch motherfuckers from Brooklyn.

That would be fabulous.
Title: Re: Going...GOING...?????
Post by: elephant on May 01, 2021, 02:13:07 PM
Quote from: chipstern on May 01, 2021, 01:58:27 PM
(https://images2.minutemediacdn.com/image/fetch/w_736,h_485,c_fill,g_auto,f_auto/https%3A%2F%2Fdailyknicks.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fgetty-images%2F2017%2F07%2F1083934016-850x560.jpeg)

Wait, what are you hearing?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on May 01, 2021, 02:21:20 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on May 01, 2021, 12:09:12 PM
True or false?

Five of the ten best players in the NBA are on 2 teams rosters.

I suppose the answer is yes, if you think Kyrie is better than Tatum and Booker and Lillard and Mitchell....and others who would compete for that 10th spot.

But I don't think so.

So I would say "False."

Title: PROJECTIONS [Re: Going...GOING...?????]
Post by: chipstern on May 01, 2021, 04:01:46 PM
Quote from: elephant on May 01, 2021, 02:13:07 PM
Quote from: chipstern on May 01, 2021, 01:58:27 PM


Wait, what are you hearing?

What I am SEEING. 

The evidence of our EYES. 

Clearly both players are putting in the work. 

Last time Frank saw the floor he promptly drained a three. 

With Burks out, one might've expected Kevin to see some daylight and get some meaningful minutes. 

NOT. 

The pursuit and ultimate buyout and signing of PG/Combo guard LUCA VILDOZA, shades of Pablo Prigioni [who during Coach Woodson's plyoff season and subsequent return to Planet Earth converted threes at a .396% and .464% clip, and while his FT attempts were limited, he converted them at an .880% and .917% rate], certainly puts a knot in the shorts not only of Frank, but of Jared Harper and Elfrid Payton, and seems to indicate the Knicks see Immanuel Quickley going forward as more of a combo guard, a la the Mircowave, Vinnie Johnson, or a scoring/facilitating hand grenade, a la Lou Williams [after a rough stretch, IQ has gotten his second wind as a shooter and scorer, and most significantly as a facilitator and defender].     

I dare say the Knicks AND Derrick Rose want a return engagement in 2021-2022, but likely with a more reasonable workload. 

Likewise, I think that Thibs would really like Reggie back as his 3&D, and Alec back as a versatile wing who can give us coverage at the 2-3-1 spots. 

I mean, here I am breaking my own SCOLD MODE, and projecting to the draft and free agency and next season, less out of the usual ennui as another crapothon comes to an end, as in anticipation of extending on something as foundational as what the Knicks Coaching Staff and Management have managed to establish in the way of a competitive culture in the HEAR AND Fucking WOW. 

I don't KNOW for a Biblical FACT that Frank and Kevin are on their way out, but that their short leash has grown even shorter.  Might we pick up Frank's qualifying offer [$8.3] for next season?  Kevin is due $5.8 next season. 

Now we have the feverish and slightly goofy speculation about Damian Lillard, still in his prime at 30, to go along with Trader Vic speculation about Lonzo Ball. 

Looking at our present 15, one has to wonder how many open spots might there be for draft picks, or if said #1 picks have more relevancy as trading chips?

C: Noel, Robinson, Peele

PF-C: Randle, Gibson, Toppin

SF-PF: Knox

SG-SF: Barrett, Bullock

SG-SF-PG: Burks, Ntilikina

SG-PG: Quickley, Vildoza, Pinson

PG: Payton, Rose, Harper

In closing, a couple of things. 

I count 17 bodies.  So there's that. 

A lot of free agent decisions to be made.  So there's that. 

Mitchell's health going forward [we seem to be committed to him, even, well, ESPECIALLY in light of Nerlens' breakout season].  Trade bait?  Unless it's for something as implausibly over the top as a Dame L, NO.

Are Julius and Obi centers?  Hey, is TAJ GIBSON?  And he has been a motherfucker this season.  WHEN I LOOK AT TAJ, a very effective Swiss Army Knife, and Julius, an MVP class PF, I see no reason why Obi can not be groomed to take on TAJ-Like reponsibilities.  Those bloggers proclaming how we MUST TRADE Obi are delusional.  As are the crow eaters now witnessing R.J.'s breakthrough, though admittedly, he was force fed minutes at a more tangible rate. 

Anyway, an out of focus, all over the map series of...not projections....again, the idle mind is the devil's workshop. 

PS: Agree with BoD that Houston looms as something possibly quite dangerous with Porter and Wood feeling their oats, and Olynk raining down threes. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 01, 2021, 08:39:53 PM
Quote from: elephant on May 01, 2021, 02:08:53 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 01, 2021, 08:12:20 AM

ATL got Trae, Snell and Dunn back, but Bog (hammy), Huerter (shoulder) and Hunter (knee) all out.  Having serious trouble getting healthy.

Hawks have 7 of last 8 at Home.
PHX; POR and @Ind.
And 4 games v. weak East teams (though Wiz playing better lately).
......

I'm hoping Knix can win a 4-5 matchup (w/ ATl or BOS) and then play #1 BKY in the 2nd round.  That'd be fun.  Knick D v. BKY O.

The Wiz are no longer a weak team. Period.

And yeah, that's what we're going for, that 4th or 5th spot. And the second round game against the arch motherfuckers from Brooklyn.

That would be fabulous.

I'd rather play Philly
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 01, 2021, 08:41:21 PM
Quote from: elephant on May 01, 2021, 02:21:20 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on May 01, 2021, 12:09:12 PM
True or false?

Five of the ten best players in the NBA are on 2 teams rosters.

I suppose the answer is yes, if you think Kyrie is better than Tatum and Booker and Lillard and Mitchell....and others who would compete for that 10th spot.

But I don't think so.

So I would say "False."

I have it as true

AND I have Lillard in the top 10
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on May 01, 2021, 09:38:29 PM
Kyrie is splendid when he's, you know, playing with other stars. But shouldn't a top ten guy be a central force whoever he's playing with?

Miami is better with Butler than Kyrie. Knicks are better with Randall than Kyrie. Portland is better with Lillard than Kyriee.

Anyhow, what's your top ten?

Lebron
Davis
Durant
Harden
Embiid
Jokic
Luka
Kawhi
Antetokounmpo

So there's 9 right there. You already would have to kick out one of the above to add Kyrie and Lillard to the top ten.

And that's already accepting the obscene removal of Curry (with a number of great players close behind).

Naw, I can't see Kyrie as top ten (even though I share his belief that the world is flat and it's important not to go out too far in the ocean, less you fall over the side).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 01, 2021, 09:43:40 PM
Bo I humbly suggest you put your trivia in the NBA forum so others have a chance to answer without spoilers from trivia-cheats.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 01, 2021, 10:09:12 PM
Stefan Bondy
@SBondyNYDN
·

Immanuel Quickley has expanded his range to Steph and Dame shots. Thibodeau is all for it:

"We have a 4-point line at our practice facility, and he shoots just as effectively from that area. When he has an opening in transition sometimes those are the best looks that he’ll get"
Title: Parallels - Knicks and Giants
Post by: Kam on May 01, 2021, 10:21:23 PM
For almost as long as i've been a Knicks fan I've been a Giants fan.

The Knicks drafted a player with the #25 pick, Immanuel Quickley, after a draft day trade down.
The Giants drafted a player with the #20 pick, Kadarius Toney, after a draft day trade down.

Quickley has that infinite range on his jumper.  He is a threat to score after a couple dribbles past halfcourt.
Toney has the type of tackle-shedding moves and elite speed to score from anywhere on the field.

Neither is an all-world player yet.
The other team doesn't necessarily game plan for these guys as both the Knicks and Giants possess bigger weapons to be concerned about.
But each player has the ability in any given game to wreck the opposing coaching staff's game plan.

Toney's quicklness and Quickley's range make two pedestrian offenses truly dangerous.
Title: Kamster Suggests... a Hamster
Post by: carlos123 on May 01, 2021, 10:57:19 PM
Quote from: Kamster the Hamster on May 01, 2021, 09:43:40 PM
Bo I humbly suggest you put your trivia in the NBA forum so others have a chance to answer without spoilers from trivia-cheats.

Kamster, I expect you to announce BoZ’s Trivia to all and sunder when he movez them to your zuggested destinazion, won’t you. I mean, you don’t really mean to deprive me and Mr. Google from revealing the myzteries of life to the masses, do you? 😧

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3e5mlBwBlnMb46sMABkXKo-bYeeE-mEg0L4_b_N9SHR9vR011E3QSZsTA9fogQFtPkl82Y7vvyBDnPi5Siuh3r4tJx4NnAtvlE6aPo94tAVVK1q4NWPUKYVzYGzaBrY59UBDYnscnkNz4anVW7cQzls=w1136-h757-no?authuser=0)

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSs35h--nMMVkNfv3Q9JYOUxDR6xHMfAdD9Og&usqp=CAU)

Title: Carlos Mencia
Post by: Kam on May 01, 2021, 11:18:30 PM
You wanna troll others here, fine.  Ruining trivia is where I draw the line!

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-K2RkUtzjVgA/YI4ZuEbJAUI/AAAAAAAAFoo/MQ1j4DLQddc-5llSwGF7CSwlkHKeKE9BACLcBGAsYHQ/w640-h360/CarlosMencia2.jpeg)
Title: Re: Carlos Mencia v Kamster the Hamster
Post by: carlos123 on May 01, 2021, 11:28:35 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 01, 2021, 11:18:30 PM
You wanna troll others here, fine.  Ruining trivia is where I draw the line!

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-K2RkUtzjVgA/YI4ZuEbJAUI/AAAAAAAAFoo/MQ1j4DLQddc-5llSwGF7CSwlkHKeKE9BACLcBGAsYHQ/w640-h360/CarlosMencia2.jpeg)

That looks like Chris Christie, U a fan?

You draw a line... hmmmm, what u gonna do about it?

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSs35h--nMMVkNfv3Q9JYOUxDR6xHMfAdD9Og&usqp=CAU)

Oh, I know. SCARY!

But, remember, I have this:

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3e5mlBwBlnMb46sMABkXKo-bYeeE-mEg0L4_b_N9SHR9vR011E3QSZsTA9fogQFtPkl82Y7vvyBDnPi5Siuh3r4tJx4NnAtvlE6aPo94tAVVK1q4NWPUKYVzYGzaBrY59UBDYnscnkNz4anVW7cQzls=w1136-h757-no?authuser=0)
Title: Re: Carlos Mencia v Kamster the Hamster
Post by: Kam on May 02, 2021, 01:31:14 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 01, 2021, 11:28:35 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 01, 2021, 11:18:30 PM
You wanna troll others here, fine.  Ruining trivia is where I draw the line!

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-K2RkUtzjVgA/YI4ZuEbJAUI/AAAAAAAAFoo/MQ1j4DLQddc-5llSwGF7CSwlkHKeKE9BACLcBGAsYHQ/w640-h360/CarlosMencia2.jpeg)

That looks like Chris Christie, U a fan?



That's you Mencia.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 02, 2021, 10:22:27 AM
Quote from: elephant on May 01, 2021, 09:38:29 PM
Kyrie is splendid when he's, you know, playing with other stars. But shouldn't a top ten guy be a central force whoever he's playing with?

Miami is better with Butler than Kyrie. Knicks are better with Randall than Kyrie. Portland is better with Lillard than Kyriee.

Anyhow, what's your top ten?

Lebron
Davis
Durant
Harden
Embiid
Jokic
Luka
Kawhi
Antetokounmpo

So there's 9 right there. You already would have to kick out one of the above to add Kyrie and Lillard to the top ten.

And that's already accepting the obscene removal of Curry (with a number of great players close behind).

Naw, I can't see Kyrie as top ten (even though I share his belief that the world is flat and it's important not to go out too far in the ocean, less you fall over the side).



Doncic is not in my top ten
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 02, 2021, 10:28:21 AM
We can debate all year long, but here is my ten

(in no particular order)


JAMES
IRVING
LILLARD
ANTETEKOUMPO
DURANT
JOKIC
DAVIS
HARDEN
BUTLER
CURRY

- this is BEST, not best this year, MVP race, best moving forward....

WE could do a NEXT TEN - and you could say who should be up there

Doncic
Leonard
Paul
Marant
Westbrook
etc
Title: Re: Parallels - Knicks and Giants
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 02, 2021, 10:32:13 AM
Quote from: Kam on May 01, 2021, 10:21:23 PM
For almost as long as i've been a Knicks fan I've been a Giants fan.

The Knicks drafted a player with the #25 pick, Immanuel Quickley, after a draft day trade down.
The Giants drafted a player with the #20 pick, Kadarius Toney, after a draft day trade down.

Quickley has that infinite range on his jumper.  He is a threat to score after a couple dribbles past halfcourt.
Toney has the type of tackle-shedding moves and elite speed to score from anywhere on the field.

Neither is an all-world player yet.
The other team doesn't necessarily game plan for these guys as both the Knicks and Giants possess bigger weapons to be concerned about.
But each player has the ability in any given game to wreck the opposing coaching staff's game plan.

Toney's quicklness and Quickley's range make two pedestrian offenses truly dangerous.

I like the pick

And Quickley is certainly working out as a late round guy
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 02, 2021, 10:33:45 AM
But is FLYNN better?

Probably not.  But room to show/grow for both

If Quicks is Loiu W and Flynn is TJ Mac, we can quibble
Title: Re: Carlos Mencia v Kamster the Hamster
Post by: carlos123 on May 02, 2021, 10:38:41 AM
 :o :)
Quote from: Kam on May 02, 2021, 01:31:14 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 01, 2021, 11:28:35 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 01, 2021, 11:18:30 PM
You wanna troll others here, fine.  Ruining trivia is where I draw the line!

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-K2RkUtzjVgA/YI4ZuEbJAUI/AAAAAAAAFoo/MQ1j4DLQddc-5llSwGF7CSwlkHKeKE9BACLcBGAsYHQ/w640-h360/CarlosMencia2.jpeg)

That looks like Chris Christie, U a fan?



That's you Mencia.

Oh, ok 👌

U a fan? 🤩

I’m a fan of yours, This Hamster:

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSs35h--nMMVkNfv3Q9JYOUxDR6xHMfAdD9Og&usqp=CAU)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on May 02, 2021, 12:26:10 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on May 02, 2021, 10:28:21 AM
We can debate all year long, but here is my ten

(in no particular order)


JAMES
IRVING
LILLARD
ANTETEKOUMPO
DURANT
JOKIC
DAVIS
HARDEN
BUTLER
CURRY

- this is BEST, not best this year, MVP race, best moving forward....

WE could do a NEXT TEN - and you could say who should be up there

Doncic
Leonard
Paul
Marant
Westbrook
etc

You know, Philly has this big guy you might want to take a look at.....
Title: Derrick Rose = Defense Rising?
Post by: Kam on May 02, 2021, 02:02:40 PM
https://www.thestrick.land/strick/why-derrick-rose-will-always-be-tom-thibodeau-favorite-point-guard (https://www.thestrick.land/strick/why-derrick-rose-will-always-be-tom-thibodeau-favorite-point-guard)

This season, per Cleaning The Glass, Rose has the best plus/minus differential on the team at +9.4 points per 100 possessions. Strangely, though, all of this value — according to the numbers — is coming on the defensive end, where the Knicks are exactly 9.4 points per 100 possessions better with Rose on the floor than off. This is by far the best mark on the roster, and more than double the defensive impact of fellow former Chicago Bull Taj Gibson, who boasts the second-best defensive differential on the team and has been a menace off the bench on that end this season.

With a reputation firmly entrenched as an offensively-minded player, this implied defensive impact is more than a little jarring.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 02, 2021, 02:16:59 PM
Scotty Barnes and Keon Johnson are my two favorite guys in the draft for us.

I’m assuming most of our core will be back including some guys who’s contracts run out at the end of the season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 02, 2021, 02:30:40 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on May 02, 2021, 02:16:59 PM

I’m assuming most of our core will be back including some guys who’s contracts run out at the end of the season.

Careful going out on that limb there : )
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 02, 2021, 03:03:11 PM
Rose colored glasses have me thinking Rose, Taj, Noel, Burks, and Bullock would all come back on reasonable raises and a little security which would suit me just fine. I think that still leaves us with dough to go after a big fish, get assets for a sizable dump, and have space to sign a couple of our picks (if we make that many) to our roster.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 02, 2021, 03:04:10 PM
You know, Philly has this big guy you might want to take a look at.....


So make his case......

I like my ten.

Leonard over Butler would be the possible change.
Title: Re: Derrick Rose = Defense Rising?
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 02, 2021, 03:08:25 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 02, 2021, 02:02:40 PM
https://www.thestrick.land/strick/why-derrick-rose-will-always-be-tom-thibodeau-favorite-point-guard (https://www.thestrick.land/strick/why-derrick-rose-will-always-be-tom-thibodeau-favorite-point-guard)

This season, per Cleaning The Glass, Rose has the best plus/minus differential on the team at +9.4 points per 100 possessions. Strangely, though, all of this value — according to the numbers — is coming on the defensive end, where the Knicks are exactly 9.4 points per 100 possessions better with Rose on the floor than off. This is by far the best mark on the roster, and more than double the defensive impact of fellow former Chicago Bull Taj Gibson, who boasts the second-best defensive differential on the team and has been a menace off the bench on that end this season.

With a reputation firmly entrenched as an offensively-minded player, this implied defensive impact is more than a little jarring.


ahhhh....statistics.

One thing there can be no doubt about - ROSE was a GREAT add.

Exec of the year?
Title: Re: Derrick Rose = Defense Rising?
Post by: bankshot1 on May 02, 2021, 03:49:25 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on May 02, 2021, 03:08:25 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 02, 2021, 02:02:40 PM
https://www.thestrick.land/strick/why-derrick-rose-will-always-be-tom-thibodeau-favorite-point-guard (https://www.thestrick.land/strick/why-derrick-rose-will-always-be-tom-thibodeau-favorite-point-guard)

This season, per Cleaning The Glass, Rose has the best plus/minus differential on the team at +9.4 points per 100 possessions. Strangely, though, all of this value — according to the numbers — is coming on the defensive end, where the Knicks are exactly 9.4 points per 100 possessions better with Rose on the floor than off. This is by far the best mark on the roster, and more than double the defensive impact of fellow former Chicago Bull Taj Gibson, who boasts the second-best defensive differential on the team and has been a menace off the bench on that end this season.

With a reputation firmly entrenched as an offensively-minded player, this implied defensive impact is more than a little jarring.


ahhhh....statistics.

One thing there can be no doubt about - ROSE was a GREAT add.

Exec of the year?

Joe Biden

Made his shots count, made America healthy again, drained the swamp!


Thibs should be a lock for COY
Title: Dam[e]n Projections
Post by: chipstern on May 02, 2021, 05:04:43 PM
Okay. 

Lillard. 

I Love Dame.

I mean, I LOVE DAME. 

Just a great talent, a great competitor. 

A few things. 

2020-2021: $31,626,953   $43,750,000   $47,250,000   $50,750,000   $54,250,000

Last year, 2024-2025, is a player option. 

So there's that. 

Also, given the Knicks track record concering paying a premium for aged stars....Dame is going to be 31 this summer. 

Hey, D-Rose is 32, so WTF, right? 

And DL shows no overt signs of slowing down.  Westbrook is delivering for the Wiz.  Paul for the Suns.  Point taken. 

FINALLY, THERE'S THE PROJECTED PRICE, as per quoted/unnamed GMs.

Mitchell Robinson, Immanel Quickley, Obi Toppin and four #1 picks.

Fuck U

Yeah, yeah, I know plenty of Knicks fans would do that deal in a NY Minute. 

Hershel Walker anyone?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 02, 2021, 05:30:02 PM
I dont think that gets it done

Need a more premier talent in there



Barrett
Title: Pass on that
Post by: Kam on May 02, 2021, 05:58:26 PM
I would not be happy if we made a deal for Lillard with all those assets.  There is no urgency to do such a trade either.  Be patient.

Lillard is great.   But there is no deal to be made here.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 02, 2021, 06:08:04 PM
Yeah - if badboy Stern linked to where he got the notion we could all comment

Instead he just spouts
Title: You Mean PISS ON THAT [Re: Pass on that]
Post by: chipstern on May 02, 2021, 06:32:39 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 02, 2021, 05:58:26 PM
I would not be happy if we made a deal for Lillard with all those assets.  There is no urgency to do such a trade either.  Be patient.

Lillard is great.   But there is no deal to be made here.

Hey, why not toss in RJ and Julius. 

WTF

I repeat, WHAT THE FUCK is the point of getting Dame if we gut our team of all assets, all young assets, and all future draft assets. 

In the Melo Trade we gave up Gallinari, Chandler, Felton, Mozgov, Anthony Randolph, Eddy Curry,  [laugh track], two #1 picks [one a swap option for Denver which they deployed to take Jamal Murray] and  pair of #2s. 

We had nothing left in the tank.  Carmelo wanted THE MONEY, and he got it, selfish jagoff, and we had ZERO talent to surround him with.  Oh, and the following season, his running mate, Amare, well, his body gave out and a regressive downslide. 

And we surrounded him with the likes of such big time Denver assets as the earthly remains of 34 year old  Chauncey Billups, whose 3-pt shooting promptly plummeted and played a lousy 21 games for us [ergo, Melo + NO PG = We Are So Fucked], that ass clown Renaldo Balkman for a second stint [IT having passed on Kyle Lowry AND Rajon Rondo to pick him], PF and career bust Shelden Williams.  We also got 24 year old Corey Brewer, a long, tall, 6'9" wing who could defend SG, SF, PF and get you 10-12 points a night....AND WE GAVE HIM THE FUCK AWAY. 

So the following 2011-2012 season we are 36-30, as D'Antoni realizes Melo is his boss, quits, and Mike Woodson gives us an 18-6 finish, Linsanity, Melo torpedoes him, the Earthly remains of Baron Davis and Mike Bibby at the point. 

I mean, did I say FUCK U.

I do not believe our present management team is that fucking stupid. 

But the idea that the jungle drums are beating makes me sick to my stomach. 

Other than Julius, some cagey vets in Taj and Rose, and some emerging puppies such as RJ and IQ, we are a team of role players and yet, WE ARE HEADING FOR THE PLAYOFFS. 

NO SHINY OBJECTS.  NO QUICK FIXES.  NO WIN NOW. 

How about we retain patience and remain smart AND WIN FOR THE NEXT DECADE. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 02, 2021, 06:54:48 PM
We had nothing left in the tank.  Carmelo wanted THE MONEY, and he got it, selfish jagoff, and we had ZERO talent to surround him with.  Oh, and the following season, his running mate, Amare, well, his body gave out and a regressive downslide.


This is horse crap - Knicks had a pretty good cast with Carmelo - and had a nice run
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 02, 2021, 07:07:15 PM
I am sure we are not getting Lillard, but he and Rose would be a handful if they played together

I'd have to limit it to THREE picks so that we could have a #1 this year
Title: Chamaco responds to Bank
Post by: carlos123 on May 02, 2021, 08:23:24 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on May 02, 2021, 03:49:25 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on May 02, 2021, 03:08:25 PM
Quote from: KamsterTheHamster on May 02, 2021, 02:02:40 PM
https://www.thestrick.land/strick/why-derrick-rose-will-always-be-tom-thibodeau-favorite-point-guard (https://www.thestrick.land/strick/why-derrick-rose-will-always-be-tom-thibodeau-favorite-point-guard)

This season, per Cleaning The Glass, Rose has the best plus/minus differential on the team at +9.4 points per 100 possessions. Strangely, though, all of this value — according to the numbers — is coming on the defensive end, where the Knicks are exactly 9.4 points per 100 possessions better with Rose on the floor than off. This is by far the best mark on the roster, and more than double the defensive impact of fellow former Chicago Bull Taj Gibson, who boasts the second-best defensive differential on the team and has been a menace off the bench on that end this season.

With a reputation firmly entrenched as an offensively-minded player, this implied defensive impact is more than a little jarring.


ahhhh....statistics.

One thing there can be no doubt about - ROSE was a GREAT add.

Exec of the year?

Joe Biden

Made his shots count, made America healthy again, drained the swamp!


Bank, baaaaad boy!!! Look at poor Chamaco after reading about how great St. Joe has been:

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3dgcS7DcH1y9OdX-WBjKkh-A9nUMNYFYKP5yKYgWN6COv7ya2bE3YZ830T4phjps7qrOyR-7xWtqLYCmOoqgf6XDg_qb2IowiTPiWBnNgMmdY5LwPd_Wg1jKoswlO1OWtPrZBQQDMiKtvRkyXZD4gTo=w626-h570-no?authuser=0)
Title: Chamaco goes after Chip
Post by: carlos123 on May 02, 2021, 08:27:34 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on May 02, 2021, 06:08:04 PM
Yeah - if badboy Stern linked to where he got the notion we could all comment

Instead he just spouts

Quote from: chamacocartero8 on May 02, 2021, 06:54:48 PM
We had nothing left in the tank.  Carmelo wanted THE MONEY, and he got it, selfish jagoff, and we had ZERO talent to surround him with.  Oh, and the following season, his running mate, Amare, well, his body gave out and a regressive downslide.


This is horse crap - Knicks had a pretty good cast with Carmelo - and had a nice run

Chamaco, you vile creature are attacking Chip only because you know he doesn't read your comments, otherwise you wouldn't dare.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 02, 2021, 09:16:55 PM
Nice Cole Anthony feature at halftime

Would have been a dynamite Knickerbocker
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 02, 2021, 10:35:53 PM
Pass for now. Maybe next contract.

We’re a game up in the win column with two fewer losses notched than the two teams at our heels, Boston and Atlanta, with 8 games left for us to play.

Pelle and Taj are the Pivots for as much of that as necessary to get Noel on his proper springs.

EGT was in effect tonight. Knox did not make the most of it unfortunately.

Major and minor contributors had it going. While there were some lapses, they didn’t matter here.

Keep building. It only gets harder from here. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on May 02, 2021, 10:42:26 PM
So good, so easy. Play D and hit the three.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 02, 2021, 11:57:18 PM
Lillard -- I really doubt those assets actually get a top talent such as Dame.

Knix could use a high volume 3-baller and a 4Q closer.  Lillard with crazy range and the game's best clutch shooter.  Would also allow Randle to be a bit more selective in his handling to cut down turnovers, and ease his workload.

Main concern would be how it affects the D.  As Lillard isn't much on D.  Could he be incorporated into Thibs defensive scheme?  Go over all screens and purse the play isn't that hard.

Quix, ObiT, Mitch.  Pretty much just 3 bench/role players.  Noel can start and give you the equivalent of Mitch.  And move Mitch before he cashes in (to whatever extent he can) and before he breaks down further.
The draft picks?
Hard pill to swallow, but if you project them in the 18-24 range, that's likely one starter, one bench guy, one washout.

Yeah, I'd try to cut it to 3 #1's, but in any case POR would want this year's pick, with Knix picking their own #1 every other year.

Basically, upgrade from Elf to superstar Lillard at the cost of young role players and likely late rounders.

Lillard - RJB - Bullox - Randle - Noel = 2 all-stars w/ defenders and 3-ballers.
Rose - Burks - Knox/? - ?? - Taj

Pick up a stretch Big (Markk, Olynyk, Myers Leopard, etc) to open the court at times and backup Uncle Julius.  Add in a vet F such as a MoHark/Aminu/MKG etc.

Roll of the dice, but the Knix would have to go for it.
Why on earth would POR do that?
If they are willing to trade Lillard, wouldn't they be looking for a Top young PG in return --  LaMellow, Ja, Shai, DeJounte. 
They're going to start Quickly at PG?
Basically I'd take Simons over Quix and Zach Collins (if still among the living) over Toppings.  They're going to take a whole bunch of nobodaddies for a top star?
Only the Knix do that.
Title: A ROSE By Any Other Name
Post by: chipstern on May 03, 2021, 01:04:25 AM
I figured you would fall for that indefensible pursuit of a shiny object like an egg from a tall chicken, BoD. 

After all IQ and Mitchell have shown? 

Thank God you are gainfully employed on the Pacific Rim. 

Meanwhile...

SPEAKING OF POINT GUARDS?

Derrick Rose was 24-6-4 in 31 minutes with a steal and 4-5 from trey. 

Perhaps DR is on borrowed time? 

But he grows more confident and relaxed with every game, and while the reverie lasts WE HAVE A FUCKING POINT GUARD and all of our assets moving forward [I would think the Knicks would want to tamp down on Rose's work load out of caution, but he is playing like a stud, he is playing like a leader, and I guess someone forgot to tell him that HE CAN'T SHOOT THREES. I won't tell, if you won't.]
Title: Re: Chamaco goes after Chip
Post by: chipstern on May 03, 2021, 01:08:13 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 02, 2021, 08:27:34 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on May 02, 2021, 06:08:04 PM
Yeah - if badboy Stern linked to where he got the notion we could all comment

Instead he just spouts

Quote from: chamacocartero8 on May 02, 2021, 06:54:48 PM
We had nothing left in the tank.  Carmelo wanted THE MONEY, and he got it, selfish jagoff, and we had ZERO talent to surround him with.  Oh, and the following season, his running mate, Amare, well, his body gave out and a regressive downslide.


This is horse crap - Knicks had a pretty good cast with Carmelo - and had a nice run

Chamaco, you vile creature are attacking Chip only because you know he doesn't read your comments, otherwise you wouldn't dare.

Thanks for the kind thoughts, Carlos. 

Still...

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f0/ad/ef/f0adefd481c9a042ead4e4eddfa7cde8.gif)

Why would I care what a deranged sissy has to say about anything....

You say tomato, HE SAY TOEMATOE.

Been there, done that....

Let's call the whole thing off. 
Title: Trivia Question
Post by: chipstern on May 03, 2021, 01:45:10 AM
Quick, name two...three, FOUR Teams that are currently 36-28. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 03, 2021, 02:24:13 AM
Gotta say after seeing C Wood two games in a row, not too impressed.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 03, 2021, 02:28:37 AM
No to these silly Lillard musings.  Obi Mitch and Quickley likely have long NBA careers ahead of them.  Maybe no all-stars but I see strong rotation guys.

AND you wanna give away the farm with picks?   No thank you.   Lillard is great, but we will be holding the bag on a declining asset.


I enjoy watching appreciating assets not worrying about a declining one.


One injury and everything is over.

Knicks would be taking an enormous risk.  I just don't see why.   Lillard and Randle isn't a guaranteed championship team. 

Keep building.  I'm not saying NO TRADES ever, i'm saying jump on the best opportunity -- not the first.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 03, 2021, 08:11:19 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 02, 2021, 11:57:18 PM
Lillard -- I really doubt those assets actually get a top talent such as Dame.

Knix could use a high volume 3-baller and a 4Q closer.  Lillard with crazy range and the game's best clutch shooter.  Would also allow Randle to be a bit more selective in his handling to cut down turnovers, and ease his workload.

Main concern would be how it affects the D.  As Lillard isn't much on D.  Could he be incorporated into Thibs defensive scheme?  Go over all screens and purse the play isn't that hard.

Quix, ObiT, Mitch.  Pretty much just 3 bench/role players.  Noel can start and give you the equivalent of Mitch.  And move Mitch before he cashes in (to whatever extent he can) and before he breaks down further.
The draft picks?
Hard pill to swallow, but if you project them in the 18-24 range, that's likely one starter, one bench guy, one washout.

Yeah, I'd try to cut it to 3 #1's, but in any case POR would want this year's pick, with Knix picking their own #1 every other year.

Basically, upgrade from Elf to superstar Lillard at the cost of young role players and likely late rounders.

Lillard - RJB - Bullox - Randle - Noel = 2 all-stars w/ defenders and 3-ballers.
Rose - Burks - Knox/? - ?? - Taj

Pick up a stretch Big (Markk, Olynyk, Myers Leopard, etc) to open the court at times and backup Uncle Julius.  Add in a vet F such as a MoHark/Aminu/MKG etc.

Roll of the dice, but the Knix would have to go for it.
Why on earth would POR do that?
If they are willing to trade Lillard, wouldn't they be looking for a Top young PG in return --  LaMellow, Ja, Shai, DeJounte. 
They're going to start Quickly at PG?
Basically I'd take Simons over Quix and Zach Collins (if still among the living) over Toppings.  They're going to take a whole bunch of nobodaddies for a top star?
Only the Knix do that.

Excellent post
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 03, 2021, 08:13:50 AM
Kam

Even if we think RJ may continue toward acceptable Big 3 status, where are we getting the third guy if not by using young assets?

And what other top twenty guy comes available

It's just about a MUST STRIKE situation
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 03, 2021, 10:44:37 AM
I know Chip is still trying to get over the loss of Iggy, but not sure how others could say NO to a super-stud PG in exchange for a bunch of unproven yute ...

Lillard exactly what this addition of the Knix is lacking.
That starting 5 would vault us into genuine East contention.

Once you have Lillard and Randle (& Thibs), it should be easy to persuade some players to come to NY for the ride.  Just add some FA Forwards.  Maybe at the buyout deadline you pick up a Kevin Love (as BKY did with Blake) or Eric Gordon or whoever for the minimum. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 03, 2021, 11:01:30 AM
I thought Wood looked pretty interesting.
Able to bring the ball upcourt fluidly, moved the ball well.  Got to the FT line.
Certainly could have had a lot more assists if Rockettes made their shots. 
Christ Wood has been shooting 37% on 3's for the season, but missed all 5 v. NY.

He got a knee to the thigh mid 1Q and was a little hobbled, less energetic after that.
One time just allowed Toppings to beat him downcourt in early offense.  Was really killing it in April, but slowed down the last 2 games to kick off May.

I didn't realize Olynyk was playing well for HOU.  I had been hoping he could be a cheap FA pickup for NYK.  Maybe a 1 year make-good, or a smallish deal.  Was hoping teams might overlook his versatility.  But the numbers he's putting up in HOU suggest he can get paid around the league average ($9M, or so).  Fun player.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 03, 2021, 11:36:00 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on May 03, 2021, 08:13:50 AM
Kam

Even if we think RJ may continue toward acceptable Big 3 status, where are we getting the third guy if not by using young assets?

And what other top twenty guy comes available

It's just about a MUST STRIKE situation

That’s the recipe all crap franchises follow. Good we won’t be doing that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on May 03, 2021, 11:48:10 AM
I neither have the skills nor the interest to play GM. But one thing is clear. Our team has been so consistently bad, that fantasy trades were our only solace — anything to get out of the quagmire.

But the weird surreality we see now is that....we actually have a really good team!

(I can hardly type those words)

And as Kam writes, we also have lots of appreciating assets.

So yeah, I'm the yokel who doesn't give a fuck about trades. I'm intrigued to see how far this experiment can go. Right now, we see players improving before our very eyes. I love this shit! Just want to see it continue!
Title: It Ain't Broke
Post by: chipstern on May 03, 2021, 12:37:12 PM
So don't fix it. 
Title: Iggy
Post by: chipstern on May 03, 2021, 12:37:33 PM
Orlando
Title: Tyrese
Post by: chipstern on May 03, 2021, 12:45:30 PM
Haliburton injured his knee.

Hope the young man dodged a bullet and it's just a sprain. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on May 03, 2021, 12:46:00 PM
Quote from: elephant on May 03, 2021, 11:48:10 AM
I neither have the skills nor the interest to play GM. But one thing is clear. Our team has been so consistently bad, that fantasy trades were our only solace — anything to get out of the quagmire.

But the weird surreality we see now is that....we actually have a really good team!

(I can hardly type those words)

And as Kam writes, we also have lots of appreciating assets.

So yeah, I'm the yokel who doesn't give a fuck about trades. I'm intrigued to see how far this experiment can go. Right now, we see players improving before our very eyes. I love this shit! Just want to see it continue!

Thank you....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 03, 2021, 12:48:54 PM
Quote from: elephant on May 03, 2021, 11:48:10 AM
I neither have the skills nor the interest to play GM. But one thing is clear. Our team has been so consistently bad, that fantasy trades were our only solace — anything to get out of the quagmire.

But the weird surreality we see now is that....we actually have a really good team!

(I can hardly type those words)

And as Kam writes, we also have lots of appreciating assets.

So yeah, I'm the yokel who doesn't give a fuck about trades. I'm intrigued to see how far this experiment can go. Right now, we see players improving before our very eyes. I love this shit! Just want to see it continue!

Playoff rounds will be fun

But they always have been, back to the early 80s when Michael Ray inbounded the ball directly to Doctor J ......

Fun.

But almost 50 years of nothing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 03, 2021, 12:50:32 PM
Unlike this COVID year, where Knicks were one of the few teams to not lose major manpower games, next year teams will be more FULLY staffed for most games - and we wont be sneaking up on anyone

No way we go with the same personnel.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 03, 2021, 12:54:35 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on May 03, 2021, 08:13:50 AM
Kam

Even if we think RJ may continue toward acceptable Big 3 status, where are we getting the third guy if not by using young assets?

And what other top twenty guy comes available

It's just about a MUST STRIKE situation

To channel my inner Chipstern. - don't chase the first shiny object.

There will be other "must strike" situations.

They aren't that rare and our window JUST OPENED.  So no rush.

Harden demanded a trade earlier this year.

Guys become available every year.
Title: Recipe For Disaster
Post by: chipstern on May 03, 2021, 01:21:26 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on May 03, 2021, 11:36:00 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on May 03, 2021, 08:13:50 AM
Kam

Even if we think RJ may continue toward acceptable Big 3 status, where are we getting the third guy if not by using young assets?

And what other top twenty guy comes available

It's just about a MUST STRIKE situation

That’s the recipe all crap franchises follow. Good we won’t be doing that.

Such as giving Kevin Love a long term deal. 

The idea that one MUST STRIKE is SO LAME, and that the road to success is predicated on ponying up all of your assets for that Redd Foxx, this is the big one Elizabeth SHINY OBJECT....ugh. 

That Kiid would happily pony up our burgeoning TWENTY YEAR OLD SUPERSTAR for a soon to be 31 year old making 40-50 million a year for the next 4-5 years is all you need to know about the assclown who repreatedly mocked Ainge for passing on Fultz to take Tatum, until the evidence became so irrefutable that he was compelled to rewrite history and go into MY MAN, I Told You So MODE. 

Kiid is a moron, so I would expect no less, but BoD's willingness to pony up Mitchell AND Immanuel, but hey, we could always claim the earthly remains of Kevin Love [yup, a perfect addition to THIBS' Kulture, off of the buyout market] bespeaks something more dire, THE GHOST OF KNICKS PLANS PAST. 

Memories grow dim in a hurry.  DO THEY NOT. 

We have nurtured Mitchell from a pup, and his progression has been steady with some dramatic improvement under Payne and Thibs.  How many players do the Knicks need to cash in, only to see them blossom and bloom and go on to have long productive careers for other teams. 

Kiid and BoD are very much of the ALL IN School of gamesmanship. 

Again, while BoD made compelling arguments on behalf of Wood and Haliburton, and yes, BB is a talented player, this was THE FIRST YEAR IN MODERN MEMORY where the Knicks did not go ALL IN on the quick fix, though admittedly they were ready willing an able to go all in for Chris Paul.  Point taken.  Gordon Hayward? Be careful what you wish for.   

Again, the idea that anyone, let alone a grifter as palpably stoopid as Kiid would with a straight face suggest we offload 20 year old home grown RJ Barrett let alone all of our draft assets and thus NEGATE THE RATIONALE FOR COPPING A TALENT SUCH AS DAME, is a reminder that stoooopidddity can detonate all manner of progress in an instant. 

Oh, and fuck those useless late first rounders. 

Right, such as the #25 with which we copped Quickley, who in an up and down season has generally trended UPWARDS.  The consistency of his stoke has returned, he is hoisting from the 4-point stripe with Coach's blessing, and, lo and behold, his assists are on the rise, as he looks to create, and not merely for his self. Mitchell, who we copped with the #36 pick and whom some seem to forget was on a tear when he returned from his busted hand. 

Damn Dame.  Well, God bless, BUT NO HERSHEL WALKER DEALS.  NO MELO DEALS. 

Noels. Bullock. Burks. 

Dennis Smith and a #46 pick for DERRICK ROSE?  Now THAT's a DEAL. 

Anyway, we agree to disagree. 

PS: The greatest deal in Knicks history?  We did indeed pony up serious assets, but it was addition by subtraction, not giving away the fucking store.   Howie Komives was our starting PG, but offlading him opened up space for Walt Frazier [our RJ in waiting].  Walt Bellamy?  A HALL OF FAME CENTER.  A double double, night in and night out.  Trading him opened up the center slot for Willis Reed, and Dave DeB, well, that worked out okay. 

PPS: Melo?  We got that ONE season under Woodson and Jason Kidd.  Otherwise, no remaining assets to develop, no talent to build nor nurture around our one certifiable stud.  What Rose & Thibs are building is very possibly SUSTAINABLE & ENDURING.  Not STARZ but rather KULTURE. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 03, 2021, 02:07:48 PM
Right, we are creating a culture around this team.  Trading half the team and all our youth for a superstar would completely shake the chemistry experiment up.  The culture would be different overnight.  I get making these desperate moves when your team isn't that good.  You need to sell tickets.  But fan interest is at a 20 year high right now.  We don't need to make desperate moves.  Let's let this chemistry experiment continue.  Only good things are happening right now.  Keep it rolling.  Let's let our youth develop next season and see where we stand then.  We have a young team.... there is no rush to blow it up. 

This is also different than when we traded for Melo.  We had Amare on his last legs and we needed to strike a deal out of desperation to get the 2nd star while Amare was still ambulatory and the team was attractive enough for a star like Melo to want to come here.  We have a completely different timeline now.  Randle is only 26 freakin years old.  We need no 31 year old superstars.   I AM WILLING to make deals in the next 12-24 months but only for a player in his 20s.   Recent history has shown us that modern Superstars are fickle and willing to change the scenery.  Let's wait for the right situation because we have the luxury of being able to wait.  Let's use that luxury and in the meantime enjoy this moment of unplanned success.  This is a sweet time to be a fan.  We are not in the quick fix mode anymore.  Some of us may not realize that yet after the last 20 years.
Title: Shiny Objects
Post by: chipstern on May 03, 2021, 04:47:42 PM
You Make The Call

2020-21: Burks [6.0]; Noels [5.0]; Payton [4.7]; Bullock [4.2]; Gibson [3.3] = 23.2 Million [36-28]

2020-21: Gallinari [19.5]; Bogdonavic [18.0] = 37.5 million [35-30]
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 03, 2021, 05:33:55 PM
Hawks would likely be ahead of us if not for all the injuries and games missed.
They also added Rondo, since moved, and Dunn.

Gallo was a poor signing.  Oft-injured, not that impactful.  Basically a one-position player now.  Better to pay young Collins than add an expensive aging Gallo.
Maybe Gallo will prove an asset they can flip to a team that needs outside shooting.
Maybe not.

Shooters got paid/overpaid last Summer -- Gallo & Bertans very overpaid. Kennard too, but less so (and younger).  Beware the frothy market ...

Quote
Right, we are creating a culture around this team.  Trading half the team and all our youth for a superstar would completely shake the chemistry experiment up.  The culture would be different overnight.  I get making these desperate moves when your team isn't that good. 

Knix have won a ton and played the best hoops with Mitch out and ObiT barely contributing.  So you'd be missing Quickly, who is fun to watch, but obviously would be more than replaced by Lillard's greatness.  Adding a Top 10 player at your weakest position in exchange for role players is hardly desperation.  Also, imo having a clutch assassin would improve the culture and generate more W's.
Talent-wise it'd be such a ridiculous steal for NYk, that it will never be available.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 03, 2021, 06:05:00 PM
Quote
Fournier... said that he felt like he had a concussion in the wake of his positive diagnosis and that it had impacted his vision and depth perception.

"I've been feeling really weird, to be honest," Fournier said. "My plan was to stop talking about it so it might help me, but the thing is it's like I have a concussion. Right now, it's actually doing a little bit better; but at first, the bright lights were bothering my eyes, and my vision was blurry.

"Everything was just going too fast for me. It's still the case. Some stuff is better, but at times, I'm really struggling to focus, and my eyes keep struggling focusing on one thing. My depth perception is really bad right now. But I saw a specialist, and she gave me some exercises, and hopefully, it'll get better."
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on May 03, 2021, 09:03:27 PM
https://twitter.com/RubinReport/status/1389335784595935232?s=19 (https://twitter.com/RubinReport/status/1389335784595935232?s=19)
Title: Trader Bo
Post by: chipstern on May 03, 2021, 09:52:20 PM
By all means let's package IQ in a trade.

Cute but we'll get over it.

[Expletive Deleted]
Title: Re: Trivia Question
Post by: carlos123 on May 03, 2021, 10:03:40 PM
Quote from: chipstern on May 03, 2021, 01:45:10 AM
Quick, name two...three, FOUR Teams that are currently 36-28.

This time I didn't need to ask Mr. Google.

All of them Knicks: NY Knicks, Portland Knicks and Dallas Knicks.

I'm not interested in the fourth team, as there ain't no more Knicks teams around 😁
Title: Re: Trivia Question
Post by: chipstern on May 03, 2021, 11:29:49 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 03, 2021, 10:03:40 PM
Quote from: chipstern on May 03, 2021, 01:45:10 AM
Quick, name two...three, FOUR Teams that are currently 36-28.

This time I didn't need to ask Mr. Google.

All of them Knicks: NY Knicks, Portland Knicks and Dallas Knicks.

I'm not interested in the fourth team, as there ain't no more Knicks teams around 😁

Lakers
Title: Rose
Post by: chipstern on May 03, 2021, 11:30:34 PM
I'm in tears
Title: Ignatz Blows BoD A Kiss
Post by: chipstern on May 03, 2021, 11:41:31 PM
Brazdeikis with 14-3-1 in Magic win.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 03, 2021, 11:45:25 PM
Old man Lillard about to break down so of course gut one of the best young rosters for him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 03, 2021, 11:45:47 PM
Not just Rose, Team.

Memphis had a total mental breakdown at getting rocked at home. There was not a lot they could do about it. They missed Clarke. More importantly, we took Morant and Allen almost entirely out of the game. That was fucking beautiful. In addition we just kept cooly finding ways to score.

It’s good we keep finding our way to better basketball because the pesky Hawks do not seem to want to go away. Still a game and a half up at the moment. Still all uphill from here.

I think we may have guaranteed a regular season winning record. Who’d a thunk it? Certainly not I.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 03, 2021, 11:46:51 PM
Desmond Bane might have a future in this basketball business.
Title: Remaining schedule - brutal
Post by: Kam on May 03, 2021, 11:58:22 PM
Wed, May 5   
@
Denver

Fri, May 7   
@
Phoenix

Sun, May 9   
@
LA Clippers

Tue, May 11   
@
Los Angeles

Thu, May 13   
vs
San Antonio
 
Sat, May 15   
vs
Charlotte

Sun, May 16   
vs
Boston
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 04, 2021, 12:00:04 AM
Every remaining game is a playoff game
Title: Breaking up THESE Knicks?
Post by: carlos123 on May 04, 2021, 12:12:00 AM
Quote from: Kam on May 03, 2021, 11:45:25 PM
Old man Lillard about to break down so of course gut one of the best young rosters for him.

Anybody thinking about gutting this TEAM has to...

A-Be out of their mind.
B-Be Chamaco Cartero, which is even worse.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 04, 2021, 12:13:54 AM
Couldn’t agree more, Carlos.

Looking at the schedule, Sunday and Tuesday I have to listen to away announcers, but other than that it’s just the competition I’d want in gearing up for a run.
Title: Re: Remaining schedule - I say 50/50.
Post by: carlos123 on May 04, 2021, 12:15:53 AM
Quote from: Kam on May 03, 2021, 11:58:22 PM
Wed, May 5   
@
Denver

Fri, May 7   
@
Phoenix

Sun, May 9   
@
LA Clippers

Tue, May 11   
@
Los Angeles

Thu, May 13   
vs
San Antonio
 
Sat, May 15   
vs
Charlotte

Sun, May 16   
vs
Boston

We’ll beat the crap out of San Antonio, Charlotte AND Boston.

And the last one will be soooooo SWEET, to close the regular season, no less 🤩
Title: Re: Ignatz Blows BoD A Kiss
Post by: elephant on May 04, 2021, 12:41:26 AM
Quote from: chipstern on May 03, 2021, 11:41:31 PM
Brazdeikis with 14-3-1 in Magic win.

Hey, how cool.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on May 04, 2021, 12:47:56 AM
Regarding the "brutal" schedule to come.

I wonder if it's just our old habits.

There's always the wish that we have a good game, upset the better team, maybe get a little something going. Yeah, that would be sweet.

But the unfolding reality is something different.

Who's gonna beat us?

We are in a deep groove. It's not the pandemic. It's not injuries. It's not luck. It's not fool's gold.

It's gold.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 04, 2021, 02:42:35 AM
Iggy with 14 pts and somehow was the lowest scoring of Magic's 4 bench players.
Did have the game high +/-

Iggy had played 15 minutes all season until getting 32 for ORL.
I never warmed to Iggy, and was amused when people would toss him into fantasy trades a sweetener.

I thought Kuz had game.  I also thought Kuz's position was secure since he was KZ's bud.  I was wrong.  Seemed like Kuz wasn't hard-working enough.  Every one in the NBA can play.  Lots of guys ready to take your roster spot if you're unprepared, injured, slack a bit.

Knicks rout Bucks 130-110 for first victory under Thibodeau (https://www.espn.in/nba/recap?gameId=401267196)
Harbinger of things to come.
3rd game of the season.
Randle and Elf the top scorers.
Knox got 26 mins; Franc 19.
Title: Good Lord
Post by: chipstern on May 04, 2021, 11:08:14 AM
What has happened to our Knicks?

DEFENSE?

K

An off night for Julius Randle is 28-6-6.  He was "only" 9-23, but 5-8 from trey and 5-5 from the charity stripe.

Fuck me. 

The Knicks were a cumulative 14-27 from three.  FROM THREE. 

Are you shitting me?  Anyone remember that brick fest against the Raptors? 

Speaking of brick fests, wasn't there an early season stretch where RJ was 0-21 from three?

Even with that ghastly stretch, RJ has NO REAR VIEW MIRROR, a savage competitive streat, an indomitable confidence in himself, and the cajones to keep in attack mode based on his work ethic. 

RJ's three point % is now at .393% [103-262].  And he has converted 189-255 FTs for a .741%, and as Clyde and Breen pointed out last night, during this recent stretch he is converting on the order of 80%

Damn. 

Derrick Rose is converting treys at a .400% clip.  Elfrid played well last night.  Burks with a boost off the bench, and a pretty back door play with Obi. 

So much to like.

We have a young team, we have a captain, we have leadership, we have camraderie. 

WE HAVE A HIGH CHARACTER TEAM TO ROOT FOR. 

Sigh.  Can't get too giddy though. 

Denver on Wedensday represents a daunting challenge in the thin oxygen of the mile high city.  Lakers beat them last night, so they are going to by feeling snarky.  Without Nerlens, Jokic is going to be no joke.  Even as good as Taj and Norvel played last night. 

GO KNICKS. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 04, 2021, 11:23:30 AM
Again, while BoD made compelling arguments on behalf of Wood and Haliburton, and yes, BB is a talented player, this was THE FIRST YEAR IN MODERN MEMORY where the Knicks did not go ALL IN on the quick fix, though admittedly they were ready willing an able to go all in for Chris Paul.  Point taken.  Gordon Hayward? Be careful what you wish for.   


Gordon Hayward is a GREAT basketball player

But even had we added him there would have been more work to do

Chip likes our work as is - feels that just by drafting from here on out (those precious picks that got us the likes of Frank and Kevin) we will get to the Finals.

Now....

I have more faith in Leon to nail those picks, sure - but still need to have abalanced attack by management which would include looking at guys like Lillard, LEBRON, etc.

heh
Title: Re: Remaining schedule - brutal
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 04, 2021, 11:25:10 AM
Quote from: Kam on May 03, 2021, 11:58:22 PM
Wed, May 5   
@
Denver

Fri, May 7   
@
Phoenix

Sun, May 9   
@
LA Clippers

Tue, May 11   
@
Los Angeles

Thu, May 13   
vs
San Antonio
 
Sat, May 15   
vs
Charlotte

Sun, May 16   
vs
Boston

Nice.

REST should be incorporated.  We shall see.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 04, 2021, 01:17:53 PM
Some of those teams will likely be more focused on incorporating rest than fighting for spots, so some tough ones might not be as tough as projected.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on May 04, 2021, 04:32:25 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on May 04, 2021, 01:17:53 PM
Some of those teams will likely be more focused on incorporating rest than fighting for spots, so some tough ones might not be as tough as projected.

Denver has  been playing lights out since Murray went down, yet got beat by a desperate Lakers team last night. 

As high a level as the Knicks have been playing at?

Will have to be much higher without Noel and Burks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on May 04, 2021, 04:41:53 PM
Quote from: chipstern on May 04, 2021, 04:32:25 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on May 04, 2021, 01:17:53 PM
Some of those teams will likely be more focused on incorporating rest than fighting for spots, so some tough ones might not be as tough as projected.

Denver has  been playing lights out since Murray went down, yet got beat by a desperate Lakers team last night. 

As high a level as the Knicks have been playing at?

Will have to be much higher without Noel and Burks.

Wait. How long is Noel out?

And Burks will be playing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 04, 2021, 04:59:40 PM
Quote from: chipstern on May 04, 2021, 04:32:25 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on May 04, 2021, 01:17:53 PM
Some of those teams will likely be more focused on incorporating rest than fighting for spots, so some tough ones might not be as tough as projected.

Denver has  been playing lights out since Murray went down, yet got beat by a desperate Lakers team last night. 





Heh

Yeah

Reaaallll desparate
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 04, 2021, 05:13:16 PM
Top 10 NBA defenders..

Give us your thoughts

Then I will post the current list...

(A particular favorite of mine on there)

Hint

One team has 2
One team has three
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on May 04, 2021, 06:09:31 PM
Quote from: elephant on May 04, 2021, 04:41:53 PM
Quote from: chipstern on May 04, 2021, 04:32:25 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on May 04, 2021, 01:17:53 PM
Some of those teams will likely be more focused on incorporating rest than fighting for spots, so some tough ones might not be as tough as projected.

Denver has  been playing lights out since Murray went down, yet got beat by a desperate Lakers team last night. 

As high a level as the Knicks have been playing at?

Will have to be much higher without Noel and Burks.

Wait. How long is Noel out?

And Burks will be playing.

BOTH Noel AND Pelle are questionable for Wednesday
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 04, 2021, 06:34:28 PM
Simmons, Embiid, Thybull
Bam & Butler
Kawhi
Giannis
GoBear
Smart

Others:
Jaylen
Mikal Bridges
Dort
Noel
My Turn
Capela

More:
Poeltl
Bullox
KCP
Siakim
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on May 04, 2021, 07:34:31 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 04, 2021, 06:34:28 PM
Simmons, Embiid, Thybull
Bam & Butler
Kawhi
Giannis
GoBear
Smart

Others:
Jaylen
Mikal Bridges
Dort
Noel
My Turn
Capela

More:
Poeltl
Bullox
KCP
Siakim

My Turn?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 04, 2021, 08:36:47 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 04, 2021, 06:34:28 PM
Simmons, Embiid, Thybull
Bam & Butler
Kawhi
Giannis
GoBear
Smart

Others:
Jaylen
Mikal Bridges
Dort
Noel
My Turn
Capela

More:
Poeltl
Bullox
KCP
Siakim


NOPE.
Title: BoZ's names
Post by: carlos123 on May 04, 2021, 08:38:09 PM
Quote from: elephant on May 04, 2021, 07:34:31 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 04, 2021, 06:34:28 PM
Simmons, Embiid, Thybull
Bam & Butler
Kawhi
Giannis
GoBear
Smart

Others:
Jaylen
Mikal Bridges
Dort
Noel
My Turn
Capela

More:
Poeltl
Bullox
KCP
Siakim

My Turn?

Elephant, BoZ is very peculiar with names.
I think he means Myles Turner.
But... who knows?
Ah, the mysteries of life... I mean the names of BoZ's.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 04, 2021, 08:38:21 PM
My Turn?


Please do not encourage him
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 04, 2021, 11:23:31 PM
You can add in Dray and AD.
LeBJ has coasted on D mostly this year.

Okoro with a 32 & 6 assist game v PHX
Hard-a-way with 36 Pts in a start for DAL
Title: Yes
Post by: Kam on May 05, 2021, 02:12:30 AM
(https://cdn.nba.com/manage/2021/05/E0kYqPpX0AU0bwG-784x392.jpeg)
Title: Me & Julius down at the schoolyard ...
Post by: bodiddley on May 05, 2021, 07:00:22 AM
Well-deserved.  Just last year, I was cringing when Randle shot a 3.  This year they all go in ((27% to 42%).
I believe Randle has muscled his way into the MVP Top 10.
Can't make Top 5 without better defense.
Or Knix winning out ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 05, 2021, 07:12:28 AM
Chip continues to point to Gordo Haywire as a cautionary tale against paying big for a shiny talented vet.  But the flipside?  PHX added in old expensive Chris Paul, and they are challenging for the best record in the League ...

Of course, it helps to add a guy with limited injury history and, at the same talent level, a starting PG is more valuable than a wing.  PHX also reputed to have one of the best training/medical staffs in the NBofA.  (adding Crowder, after a down season, was key too -- picking up Torey Craig for nothing was a heist and half)).

(then again I got laughed at a year and a half ago when I was advocating that BOS trade Haywood).

Imagine this Knick team with CP3 in place of Elf ...
(or Lillard ...)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 05, 2021, 10:02:38 AM
I believe Randle has muscled his way into the MVP Top 10.
Can't make Top 5 without better defense.
Or Knix winning out ...

Or fanboys not voting for bigger NAME players
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 05, 2021, 10:07:20 AM
Draymond Green - yes.  Top Ten NBA.com defensive player ladder.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on May 05, 2021, 11:27:15 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 05, 2021, 07:12:28 AM
Chip continues to point to Gordo Haywire as a cautionary tale against paying big for a shiny talented vet.  But the flipside?  PHX added in old expensive Chris Paul, and they are challenging for the best record in the League ...

Of course, it helps to add a guy with limited injury history and, at the same talent level, a starting PG is more valuable than a wing.  PHX also reputed to have one of the best training/medical staffs in the NBofA.  (adding Crowder, after a down season, was key too -- picking up Torey Craig for nothing was a heist and half)).

(then again I got laughed at a year and a half ago when I was advocating that BOS trade Haywood).

Imagine this Knick team with CP3 in place of Elf ...
(or Lillard ...)

Imagine this Knicks team with Derrick Rose.

💘
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 05, 2021, 12:40:07 PM
https://www.nba.com/news/defensive-player-ladder-sizing-up-dpoys-impact-on-title-chances

Good to see they have Thybulle on there.  The guy is impressive.
I saw one play where his guy went around a screen, the next '6er didn't switch, so looked like Thybulle would have to trail along the ballhandler along the baseline, but instead he just stretched out a long arm and poked the ball out of bounds from behind. 

I haven't seen GSW play this calendar year.
OG has been out for the Raps games I've seen (including yesterday v. LAC).

Smart takes gambles but makes some crazy plays.
About two weeks ago, I was watching a Celts game and there was a loose ball being knocked around.  Suddenly from off camera a body came diving by.  One announcer asks with a chuckle if that blur was Smart.  The other said it looked like Pete Rose.  Smart just misses the ball, the play heads the other direction, Smart slides to near the baseline.  Gets up, runs back hard, and intercepts a pass under the hoop.  Insane.

Another game the week before Smart made tow great saves when balls were heading out of bounds.  One, Smart deflected the ball, jumped out of bounds and threw the ball between his legs right to a teammate.  All Yannick Noah and whatnot.  I hope there's a comp video of bonkers Marcus Smart plays from this season...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 05, 2021, 01:02:07 PM
Quote from: chipstern on May 05, 2021, 11:27:15 AM

Imagine this Knicks team with Derrick Rose.

💘


Even Mrs. Dawg is saying, Derrick...wow, just wow.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 05, 2021, 01:14:55 PM
Quote from: chipstern on May 05, 2021, 11:27:15 AM
Imagine this Knicks team with Derrick Rose.
💘

and Jared Harper.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 05, 2021, 01:29:09 PM
They need to factor in contract value when talking about most valuable player.


Julius hands down.

And i'm with Chip here:   DRose dollar for dollar > Lillard
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on May 05, 2021, 02:57:08 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 05, 2021, 01:14:55 PM
Quote from: chipstern on May 05, 2021, 11:27:15 AM
Imagine this Knicks team with Derrick Rose.
💘

and Jared Harper.

WORD

PS: And Luca Vildoza sleeps with the fishes.
Title: Hedging Their Bets
Post by: chipstern on May 05, 2021, 03:01:23 PM
Luca Vildoza to Knicks on four-year, $13.6 million deal

Luca Vildoza, an Argentinian guard with Baskonia of the Spanish ACB League, has agreed in principle to a four-year, $13.6 million deal with the New York Knicks, his agent, Alex Saratsis of Octagon Sports, told ESPN. – via Adrian Wojnarowski @ ESPN

Vildoza, one of the premier playmakers in Europe, will fly to New York once he clears the immigration process. There’s no clear timetable on his arrival this season, based upon immigration, physicals and protocols.

The Knicks had the salary cap space and roster spot to get ahead of summer free agency and secure Vildoza now. Vildoza, 25, would’ve been one of the top available free agent point guards in the 2021 summer marketplace.

Three non-guaranteed years on the contract give the Knicks the chance to evaluate Vildoza in the Olympics, summer league and training camp before committing to a full guarantee on next season. – via Adrian Wojnarowski @ ESPN
Title: Luca...
Post by: lesterluv on May 05, 2021, 03:13:37 PM
...this season is the gift that keeps on giving.


*** I'm guessing they don't bother to sign the boy if he can't play a lick
Title: Re: Luca...
Post by: chipstern on May 05, 2021, 03:18:04 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on May 05, 2021, 03:13:37 PM
...this season is the gift that keeps on giving.


*** I'm guessing they don't bother to sign the boy if he can't play a lick

Have you watched any of his YouTube clips. 

We shall see.

But he looks shifty and tough.  Reminded me of Rose. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 05, 2021, 03:26:49 PM
"Can he guard anybody" I think will be the question that Thibs will want answered.
Title: Re: Hedging Their Bets
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 05, 2021, 03:58:09 PM
Quote from: chipstern on May 05, 2021, 03:01:23 PM
Luca Vildoza to Knicks on four-year, $13.6 million deal

Luca Vildoza, an Argentinian guard with Baskonia of the Spanish ACB League, has agreed in principle to a four-year, $13.6 million deal with the New York Knicks, his agent, Alex Saratsis of Octagon Sports, told ESPN. – via Adrian Wojnarowski @ ESPN

Vildoza, one of the premier playmakers in Europe, will fly to New York once he clears the immigration process. There’s no clear timetable on his arrival this season, based upon immigration, physicals and protocols.

The Knicks had the salary cap space and roster spot to get ahead of summer free agency and secure Vildoza now. Vildoza, 25, would’ve been one of the top available free agent point guards in the 2021 summer marketplace.

Three non-guaranteed years on the contract give the Knicks the chance to evaluate Vildoza in the Olympics, summer league and training camp before committing to a full guarantee on next season. – via Adrian Wojnarowski @ ESPN

Scan the fucking globe for these guys!

Should have taken Mike James.  But Frank spot was too protected
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 05, 2021, 05:55:39 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 05, 2021, 03:26:49 PM
"Can he guard anybody" I think will be the question that Thibs will want answered.

Knicks are winning as much with good offense as D
Title: Down Memory Lane
Post by: carlos123 on May 05, 2021, 08:03:24 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on May 05, 2021, 01:02:07 PM
Les' siggy:

"Let me tell you how it started,
Way back then,
When Big Bad Zach was "too black" for him!
posse, thug, wilding, that's what we heard
...pure Central Park 5 treatment"


It brings back memories of Les musing about how great Zach was...

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/WBz_X5xG14b3SgSo897uyDAZIWdh_8rStOZi_As9v9eb7Daw-1rSvysH0uV6MEzMfDlnaLsebjhkEhVJCDg6t8d8XPdmBz1JUQI66EQftqj_OGZKABW_-6qPY6hM5-O-MLAZYf5BHZHYbQ9cZo_3UJ0-4rb5c8yCUfWbFzuXGWWs9bbuPf1VwbSYoSnQsmFo7Ide-FSeT9UQNqFV0_coJNt0FeLRGmc_RU3rtA9VmTfwkEOV2FV1vLVX-AvxMwiMm2xuYCerKU6TV59X6nXUMsjy8_lvzMpPX7LhNY0uGtnrG6Ttt8_BsXjnrKVHGtpw7g5KYG_VCDc4NSOYhkwFDK6QZJYL44C0jpy7N_g9Fc0Kh0DUVRQgkqrQORn0e30orAm3_Ult0NR-foOGQ9VUJTdY6v4LeZRywnsYQOKBD0qqeoZ1Z4G97YTtfroPszJvciuHCvVqrYf3jSBkHTMjKZTfUCNDuJ6uU36dJzY-5qcdhAZHJifP8C-O_Xgxg9IJ3oLFlifPuraT_Vz61LJEBA6t4i2WD4GLgLgFUT0aY2-hoWhlPjHrrheBzHFUVkeTNckN48V4zSmSriHVeu3_oY37XJsBV3wllzcO_OWWLb38VgJmXAEbZyRL8igjCqmuXK0LDZrV397rmhBnU-2TnqLPMytAnzxD1cPagZGHSSW-qDsbY6WZiZibWfd3BxaKa03g_eYo0U89ORRkbo1gcwo=w788-h542-no?authuser=0)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 05, 2021, 08:55:17 PM
https://sports.yahoo.com/report-standout-kings-rookie-tyrese-haliburton-escapes-ligament-damage-season-likely-done-023036702.html

Likely makes second team...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on May 05, 2021, 09:45:36 PM
Wilt Chamberlain Nikola Jokic with 24 in the 1st quarter.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 05, 2021, 10:38:01 PM
Which one of the great defenders is Rivers schoolin?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 05, 2021, 11:34:33 PM
Rivers will probably have something to do with the Nuggets getting knocked out a round early this season.

Glad that’s behind us. Time to take it out on Phoenix who’ll be pissed after losing to the fucking Hawks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 06, 2021, 12:32:39 AM
That was a wake-up call.

Also some truly terrible officiating all game.

The ref called that ball out of bounds off Randle?  She was right there and saw something that clearly did not happen.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 06, 2021, 02:03:00 AM
I'm not going to worry about $4M.  And it's always good to dig up players wherever you can.  Knix have a nice history of that with Starks and Mason.

Best Euro-PG's in NBA history?
1. Tony Parker excelled, but came over very young, at 19 I believe, and played his whole career with an all-time great and a stable great organization.
2. Goran Dragic
3. Jose Calderon a solid smart PG (weak defender).
4. Ricky "Average" Rubio
5. Dennis Schroder

After that a lot of Vassilis Spanoulis, Sergio Rodriguez, etc.
Recently Milos Teodosic was proclaimed a passing wizard and Euro-genius.
managed 60 NBA games for LAC.
Knix had their own Milos (Vujanic) who was our PG of the future which never came.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 06, 2021, 02:26:30 AM
Alexi, how quickly they forget.
Title: Sucker Punched
Post by: chipstern on May 06, 2021, 04:01:51 AM
12   31   26   28   
   
34   30   25   24   

Isn't that quarter by quarter tally bizarre. 

Jokic simply steamrolled us in the first quarter, and Campazzo was a MF [9 rebounds, more than any other Knick, to go with 16 points, 4 assists, 5 steals and 2 blocks] which ended with us down by 22, and could never come back from it, even though through quarters 2-3-4 we were 85-79. 

Julius, RJ and Alec a combined 9-35 [though RJ was 4-8 from trey]. 

APROS POS OF NOTHING, 1: Watching Michael Porter I was struck by the contrasting strategems of the Nuggets and the Mills/Fizdale braintrust.  Denver willing to invest two summers and an entire regular season in getting Porter healthy, while we force fed Knox minutes in our tanking season, when we could've committed more fully to tanking and to developing a prospect.  I was pulling for Mikal Bridges in that draft, though I was taken by Knox's potential.  Now three years down the line both Bridges and Porter are front line players, and Kevin is in limbo. 

Oh well. 

APROS POS OF NOTHING, 1: Think Austin Rivers was psyched [6-9 from three].  Good for him. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 06, 2021, 08:51:57 AM
Knicks still have the rights to a couple of other Euro PG


https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jaramog01.html?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-


https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/sanonis01.html?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-
Title: Re: OBI
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 06, 2021, 09:22:39 AM
Aside from Toppin not playing the allotted minutes many of you had for him - and not being that swift force to run roughshod immediately through the league (again, so wishful you all were), Toppin has been fine

48% FG
73% FT

Just fine for a rookie with a short camp

Also

More assists than turnovers

More steals+blocks than turnovers

BULLISH on Toppin - yes.  And we have a tough call coming up with Randle, who has priced himself into a very high bracket.

I would think playing them more together, seeing if it works, might be in order.  But Knicks are in the "win as many games as we can" phase - which doesnt leave room for experiment
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 06, 2021, 09:26:54 AM
Anyone else having trouble getting on NBA.com?
Title: Re: Falling to 7
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 06, 2021, 09:32:45 AM
With NYK in a tough stretch of games and teams looking to avoid play ins -

1/2 game up on ATL
2 games up on BOS
2 games up on MIA

Yeah, possible we host CHA a game, then host IND or WAS a game should we lose that first one.

At least they would both be at home.


https://sports.yahoo.com/nba/standings/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 06, 2021, 09:38:25 AM
Meanwhile - hard to believe the Lonzo-led Hornets are still in the mix.  (winners of 6 in 8)

2 back of Spurs, loss column.  But they go to Philly tomorrow (season on line?) while Spurs take on Kings in Sactown.

Lon-zoooooooo!!!!!

Get r done, lad.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 06, 2021, 10:22:48 AM
Lotta confused thinking above ...

Knix did what was needed, which was beat the two weaker teams on the B2B. 
Get crushed by DEN?  So what ...
But no one cares if you outscore a team for 3Q's if you are down 16-26 the whole time.  Nugs starters mostly played half the game.  Jokic was brilliant.  I didn't get to the 4Q yet, and mostly just heard the 3Q.

Jokic seemed to outplay Julius.
Porter might have been a wee bit better than Knox.
And I'm sure Au Revoir enjoyed outscoring Rose, Quix and post-CV Burks.

DEN had 3 G's out, so started Compazzo and 4 Bigs.
This allowed vet Milsap to bang with Randle.
And Gordon just pummeled RJB to start and then things went awry.
Knix got killed on the boards v. the DEN Mt Men. 

Campazzo 5 steals, 9 boards and 2 blocks for a 5'10" pest.  He's probably somehow a distant cousin of Pablo Prigioni. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 06, 2021, 10:39:54 AM
At the time, I didn't think Knix could really take a chance on Porter Jr. 
LAC med staff thought Porter might not be able to play and the word spread.
They passed on him twice at 12 & 13.  DEN  with a pretty loaded team and the talent drop-off took the chance on Porter at 14. 

So it wasn't that the Knix couldn't wait as much as that they couldn't afford to draft a guy who might never play in the NBA.  Both Bridges sounded like solid contributors who could help any team.  I was for Mikal, but I be no draftnik.  Was surprised Knix took the risk/reward Knox package, instead of the lower ceiling but reputedly solid Bridges Bros.  Just hoped the Knix knew what they were doing.

When I first saw Knox's physique, I could understand the attraction.  He was a wild card, raw but looked the part.  Knox hasn't been as athletic as he appears.  Kind of jumps poorly I think.  And he thinks too much and isn't a quick reacter.  Sort of hopeless on D.  Still young.

But the Bridges are bona fide starters, both very good defenders who are expanding their scoring repertoire.  Exceeding the 3&D label they had, while becoming playmakers and creative scorers.  Meanwhile Porter is showing the pre-back-injury form that had folks considering him a Top 3 talent (if healthy).   Clyde thought his stroke looked Allan Houstonian.

And then Shai was there as well, and had been getting good buzz and moving up draft boards.  So 4 of the next 5 taken after Knox would have been great picks and likely starters for these Knix.  A painful draft for NYK.  Thibs isn't much interested in Knox at all.  Not sure how much longer Knox stays a Knix. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 06, 2021, 12:29:34 PM
I wanted Knox. I was wrong.
Title: Austin Rivers
Post by: Kam on May 06, 2021, 12:29:56 PM
(https://i.redd.it/mwcr8u2rthx61.jpg)
Title: Re: Falling to 7
Post by: elephant on May 06, 2021, 02:35:44 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on May 06, 2021, 09:32:45 AM
With NYK in a tough stretch of games and teams looking to avoid play ins -

1/2 game up on ATL
2 games up on BOS
2 games up on MIA

Yeah, possible we host CHA a game, then host IND or WAS a game should we lose that first one.

At least they would both be at home.


https://sports.yahoo.com/nba/standings/

Fuck that. Must secure the 4-6 spot.

They've shown they can do it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 06, 2021, 03:08:25 PM
I never had a 3 and D label on Miles Bridges.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 06, 2021, 04:13:45 PM
So maybe IND misses Coach Nate ...

Michael Porter not only had two back surgeries, but his brother Johntay (with MemF) tore the same ACL twice within 6 months in college.  And 2 of Porter's sisters had serious knee injuries in college that cut short their athletic careers.  Not sure how relevant that is, bot a bit worrisome.

ESPN with a longish article about Randle's options for his next contract.
https://www.espn.in/nba/insider/story/_/id/31391554/the-knicks-julius-randle-sit-nexus-evolving-offseason

So I'm on the sidewalk in front of my dwelling and a hobo-type guy is walking towards me in somewhat ragged clothes.  And as I'm contemplating his situation, I realize he is wearing a nice looking Knick hat.
So we chat for a while and he's also in favor of trading young role players for Lillard.
(okay, so maybe I made that last part up ...)
(https://i.postimg.cc/JhjGfJVF/Knick-Bum-1.jpg)
Title: Marketing Myopia
Post by: Kam on May 06, 2021, 04:42:12 PM
The problem Bo is not the package you're willing to give up its the object of your affection.  Don't get so myopic on Lilllard who is 4-5 years older than Julius and 10 years older than RJ.  That's a weird Big3 to have contractually.  If we were talking Devin Booker you'd have my attention.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 06, 2021, 06:52:56 PM
lol, u definitely got my attention with Devin
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on May 06, 2021, 07:29:16 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 06, 2021, 10:39:54 AM
At the time, I didn't think Knix could really take a chance on Porter Jr. 
LAC med staff thought Porter might not be able to play and the word spread.
They passed on him twice at 12 & 13.  DEN  with a pretty loaded team and the talent drop-off took the chance on Porter at 14. 

So it wasn't that the Knix couldn't wait as much as that they couldn't afford to draft a guy who might never play in the NBA.  Both Bridges sounded like solid contributors who could help any team.  I was for Mikal, but I be no draftnik.  Was surprised Knix took the risk/reward Knox package, instead of the lower ceiling but reputedly solid Bridges Bros.  Just hoped the Knix knew what they were doing.

When I first saw Knox's physique, I could understand the attraction.  He was a wild card, raw but looked the part.  Knox hasn't been as athletic as he appears.  Kind of jumps poorly I think.  And he thinks too much and isn't a quick reacter.  Sort of hopeless on D.  Still young.

But the Bridges are bona fide starters, both very good defenders who are expanding their scoring repertoire.  Exceeding the 3&D label they had, while becoming playmakers and creative scorers.  Meanwhile Porter is showing the pre-back-injury form that had folks considering him a Top 3 talent (if healthy).   Clyde thought his stroke looked Allan Houstonian.

And then Shai was there as well, and had been getting good buzz and moving up draft boards.  So 4 of the next 5 taken after Knox would have been great picks and likely starters for these Knix.  A painful draft for NYK.  Thibs isn't much interested in Knox at all.  Not sure how much longer Knox stays a Knix.

Shai just went down with a serious injury.

I believe he ruptured his plantar facitis. 

Damn.  Hope he is okay.  That's a rough break for a PG. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on May 06, 2021, 07:30:09 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 06, 2021, 10:22:48 AM
Lotta confused thinking above ...

Knix did what was needed, which was beat the two weaker teams on the B2B. 
Get crushed by DEN?  So what ...
But no one cares if you outscore a team for 3Q's if you are down 16-26 the whole time.  Nugs starters mostly played half the game.  Jokic was brilliant.  I didn't get to the 4Q yet, and mostly just heard the 3Q.

Jokic seemed to outplay Julius.
Porter might have been a wee bit better than Knox.
And I'm sure Au Revoir enjoyed outscoring Rose, Quix and post-CV Burks.

DEN had 3 G's out, so started Compazzo and 4 Bigs.
This allowed vet Milsap to bang with Randle.
And Gordon just pummeled RJB to start and then things went awry.
Knix got killed on the boards v. the DEN Mt Men. 

Campazzo 5 steals, 9 boards and 2 blocks for a 5'10" pest.  He's probably somehow a distant cousin of Pablo Prigioni.

Here's hoping he's a close relative of Luca Brazzi. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 06, 2021, 07:36:34 PM
Yawn...............
Title: Re: WEST
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 06, 2021, 07:37:21 PM
And for West seeding, I give you a juicy TNT doubleheader tonight

Brooklyn at Dallas

LA at LA
Title: Luca Vildoza Sleeps With The Fishes
Post by: chipstern on May 06, 2021, 09:08:29 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on May 06, 2021, 06:52:56 PM
lol, u definitely got my attention with Devin

Indubitiably.

Not a realistic phantasy, I'm afraid.  Phoenix is well into their rebuild with a great coach on the bench and a great coach on the floor. 

Not sure but that Lonzo Ball is a more realistic fantasy. 

Save that I cannot for the life of me comprehend why the Pelicans would let him walk?  If the Knicks offered him 4 x 20 million, do the Pelicans decline to match?  I cannot wrap my head around that.  Ball, Ingram and Zion are quite the core moving forward. 

https://www.basketball-reference.com/international/players/luca-vildoza-1.html (https://www.basketball-reference.com/international/players/luca-vildoza-1.html)

Which is part of what makes the signing of Luka Vildoza so interesting. 

I get why some fans are, well, cautious in embracing the notion of him as naught but a scrub. 

But his game, based on what I have seen from an admittedly cherry picked highlight reel of YouTube clips, is tantalizing, and I've been a number of plays that definitely remind me of Prigioni, Campazzo and Rose Version 3.2

He is not wildly athletic on the order of a Jah Morant, but he is very scrappy, plays D, can hit the three at a decent clip, drains FTs at a .831% for his career and seems like an adept P&R man. 

What caught my attention were his instincts for changing speeds, and getting to the rack; I saw a couple of plays where his crossover and okey doke change of pace suggested what we have seen of D-Rose.  Not too shabby. 

Is he a talent on the order of D-Rose, 1.0 or 2.3? 

I didn't say that, but having gotten so thoroughly schooled by the diminutive Campazzo last night, doth give me pause. 

I think it is likely that a healthy and motivated Rose will be brought back.  Payton has been a good soldier and a stout defender, but I suspect the Knicks are moving on from him, with thanks. 

Might Thibs deploy, and would Vildoza be able to fill, the table setter's role Payton has filled this season?  Rose has proven very effective in the role of the game changer off of the bench, gobbling up more and more minutes with both the second and first units. 

Might the Knicks be comfortable with PG coverage from Rose and Vildoza, with Quickley and Burks pulling double duty as combo wings at SG/PG and SF/SG/PG respectively? 

My affection for and rooting interest in Jared Harper notwithstanding [based in large part off his collegiate pedigre], not sure if the Knicks project him into our future as much more part of our Westchester Taxi Squad along with the likes of Skal Labissiere, Myles Powell and Simisola-Shittu.  The 10-day/Two Way juggling the Knicks have done with Harper and Powell would seem to suggest a desire to remain on congenial terms with these prospects, and to leave the door ajar, if not wide open. 

Committing to at least one year guaranteed out of four with Vildoza, and picking up a $2 million buyout, is a pretty significant commitment, hedging one's bets notwithstanding.  Pretty bold move jumping the gun on the draft and free agency and getting a heads up on 2021-2022. 

WE SHALL SEE.

As per the draft and free agency, one would think that the Knicks would be committed to reupping many of our free agents, and I believe their caution with Mitchell going forward suggests an ongoing commitment to the developomental work we have put in and the progress he has made. 

I suspect that our two #1 picks, at the very least, one could be tethered to Kevin and/or Frank either to move up or to secure a veteran asset who fits Thibs' system.  Or even to acquire another #1 pick in the 2022 draft class. 

In some mock projections I have seen that 6'8" Australian PG Josh Giddey fall into our range [not a drop dead shooter, but allegedly the best passer in the class] while in other projections, he is a 10-14 pick.  Right now we have the 20/23 and 32/58 picks. 

I leave it to BoD to project what our areas of greatest needs are, but I suspect it is something along the lines, dare I say it, a 3/4 & D with a stroke, a big athletic wing with a stroke and a handle, a PG should one jump out at us, even though we might be stocked with Derrick, Immanuel, Luca and [presumably] Alec.  Oh and another 7 foot rim protector project. 

Who knows. 

Just passing the time waiting...HERE COME THE SUNS. 
Title: Luca's Brassy
Post by: chipstern on May 06, 2021, 09:18:30 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bookBrrWHvQ&t=8s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bookBrrWHvQ&t=8s)

Tantalizing. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 06, 2021, 10:41:03 PM
Pacers handled their business and downed the Hawks. Unfortunately the Mavs and Pistons both won.

We’re two up in the loss column on Atlanta and Boston.
Title: Ooops
Post by: chipstern on May 06, 2021, 11:10:09 PM
Immanuel Quickley doubtful for Friday against Suns

Mike Vorkunov: Immanuel Quickley and Alec Burks are both doubtful to play for the Knicks tomorrow night in Phoenix, the team says. Quickley has a sprained left ankle. Burks has a left knee contusion. – via Twitter MikeVorkunov
Title: Luca What We Got
Post by: chipstern on May 07, 2021, 12:38:15 AM
(https://www.indiansports11.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Knicks-eyeing-Baskonias-Luca-Vildoza.jpg)

The Knicks officially announced the signing of Argentinian combo guard Luca Vildoza Thursday, and one of his countrymen said he believes they’ve made a smart addition.

Nuggets rookie point guard Facundo Campazzo, who had a big game in Denver’s rout of the Knicks on Wednesday night, told The Post that Vildoza has always been destined for the NBA, even though he went undrafted in 2017.

(https://images.clarin.com/2021/05/06/facundo-campazzo-ante-obi-toppin___cYH9fvcFu_340x340__1.jpg)

Vildoza and Campazzo have played together on Argentina’s national team the last four years and competed against each other for three seasons in the Spanish league.

“He’s an NBA player,’’ Campazzo told The Post in a phone interview from Denver. “He has something special in his game. Sooner or later, we knew he was going to play in the NBA. I think he’s going to make an impact here. I believe he can make it and is going to improve a lot in his game here. He can be here many years.’’

The 6-foot-3 Vildoza, who is 25, signed a four-year, $13 million deal, but it’s only partially guaranteed. The Knicks, however, are invested because they have to pay his Spanish league team, Baskonia, $2 million for his buyout.

(https://positive-feedback.com/Issue60/images/78.jpg)

Campazzo, 30, left the Spanish league last summer and has seen success as a pass-first point guard. Vildoza can even be more versatile.

“He’s a very talented player, very smart too,’’ Campazzo said. “When you see him play his game, I enjoy watching him play every game. You can see in the moment, he’s so talented. He does spectacular plays every game. He makes his teammates much better. That’s very important to him.’’

According to Campazzo, Vildoza still is in Spain, dealing with immigration work issues. He doesn’t know when Vildoza will board a flight to the United States.

“He told me he’s so anxious, so excited,’’ Campazzo, who scored 16 points with four assists, nine rebounds and five steals versus the Knicks, said. “He can’t wait to meet his teammates, see the city, meet the team. He can’t believe the last few days. He can’t wait to go to New York.’’

The two formed the backcourt for Argentina’s 2019 World Cup team that made the finals, also teamed in events such as the Pan American Games and will reunite for the Olympics this summer.

Campazzo said they rotated who played the point.

“He’s [a] very special player,’’ Campazzo said. “He likes to score, likes to pass, plays hard on defense, too.’’

Vildoza, who averaged 10.1 points and 3.4 assists this past season, won the Finals MVP in leading Baskonia to the 2020 Spanish championship. Campazzo won a title with Real Madrid in 2019.

The two Argentinians have spoken a lot more in recent days. Campazzo said one element Vildoza must master is adjusting to the NBA 3-point line. In his three seasons in the Spanish league, Vildoza shot a decent enough 35.9 percent from 3.

“It’s different. You have to practice that 3-point shot,’’ Campazzo said. “It’s really farther (about 1.5 feet around most of the arc, though about the same in the corners) from the rim than Europe.’’

Working the pick-and-roll is Vildoza’s specialty.

(https://artear-tn-prod.cdn.arcpublishing.com/resizer/1JAJPwkFTqeqFIrXm7JgKFOEz5U=/767x0/smart/filters:quality(60)/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/artear/GQ7ECEE3CBGFFC5J2BDZWDYIDU.jpg)

“He won’t have problems to score,’’ Campazzo said. “When he plays the pick-and-roll, his shot off the dribble, his [release] is high and it’s a tough shot to block. His middle-range jump shot, he’s very effective. And he’s very good passing it at the same time.’’

Vildoza could join the Knicks in time for the playoffs, but this signing is more about the future. Sources contend a handful of teams would have been interested in Vildoza as an August free agent. The Knicks’ three point guards — Elfrid Payton, Derrick Rose and Frank Ntilikina — all will be free agents after the season.

“He wanted to know how we play here,’’ Campazzo said. “How the NBA plays defense compared to Europe. I tried to advise him but he’s very talented and he knows the players here. The time in Spain is midnight [when the NBA plays on the East Coast], but he knows every player for sure.’’

(https://media0.giphy.com/media/fQfS3shtR9lGZFE5wD/giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e47laf64v3w24qa1cbpdfsbjnjurdolrblz4k44sj1o&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 07, 2021, 01:31:09 AM
I'm not fixated on Lillard.  Chip picked up a Lillard rumor from somewhere and I thought most of you guys were nuts for not liking it, despite it being incredibly unrealistic that POR would ditch Lillard, let alone in such a lopsided trade.

Knix need a legit starting PG.  Hard to see where we get one.
Lillard isn't perfect -- age, expense, defense -- but checks one helluva lotta boxes that Knix really need  -- clutch scoring, leadership, ballhandling, offense, PG-errific, cajones de brasso (note: not a czarlos approved translation, use at your own risk).

I'll take either Ball.  It's hard to see Fox becoming available.
I'd take Lowry on a bloated 1 or 2 year deal.
Brunson is an interesting backup.
Dinwiddie?
INDy imploding -- I'd take The Frog (Brogdon).
DeJounte is what we hoped Franc would become. But he hasn't really clicked yet -- Thibs would love him.
I wouldn't want Tangelo, Westbrook, Wall, Schroder ...

Things happen and a player might shake loose, but for now it's hard to see any quality PG's becoming attainable (except perhaps LonZo).  Or we bowl over POR with our role player extravaganza ...

Lonzo, Brogdon, Dinwiddie, Brunson, DeJounte is all I've come up with ...
Pair them with Rose.
The Argentinian addition sure says goodbye to Franco.  There was no way we were picking up a $9M tab on him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 07, 2021, 01:37:25 AM
ELF is 4th in Defensive real +/- among PG's, just ahead of Simmons.
http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM/position/1
But dead last (91st) Offensive real +/-
http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/3/sort/ORPM/position/1
Title: Earth To BoD
Post by: chipstern on May 07, 2021, 02:57:59 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on May 07, 2021, 01:31:09 AM
I'm not fixated on Lillard.  Chip picked up a Lillard rumor from somewhere and I thought most of you guys were nuts for not liking it, despite it being incredibly unrealistic that POR would ditch Lillard, let alone in such a lopsided trade.

Knix need a legit starting PG.  Hard to see where we get one.
Lillard isn't perfect -- age, expense, defense -- but checks one helluva lotta boxes that Knix really need  -- clutch scoring, leadership, ballhandling, offense, PG-errific, cajones de brasso (nbote: not a czarlos approved translation, use at your own risk).

I'll take either Ball.  It's hard to see Fox becoming available.
I'd take Lowry on a bloated 1 or 2 year deal.
Brunson is an interesting backup.
Dinwiddie?
INDy imploding -- I'd take The Frog (Brogdon).
DeJounte is what we hoped Franc would become. But he has really clicked yet -- Thibs would love him.
I wouldn't want Tangelo, Westbrook, Wall, Schroder ...

Things happen and a player might shake loose, but for now it's hard to see any quality PG's becoming attainable (except perhaps LonZo).  Or we bowl over POR with our role player extravaganza ...

Lonzo, Brogdon, Dinwiddie, Brunson, DeJounte is all I've come up with ...
Pair them with Rose.
The Argentinian addition sure says goodbye to Franco.  There was no way we were picking up a $9M tab on him.

Lowry?

Mmmmmm.  Be still my heart.  Great competitor.  Too bad fucking Zeke took Renaldo Balkman.  Think he makes more sense for Sixers, given how they are farther along in their evolution than we are, and his Philly roots.  And I LOVES ME some Dame, but not at the cost of another Melo/Hershel scaled evisceration.  Not like we are going to get Dame for Knox and Ntilikina, or God forbid, Dennie Smith and a #2. 

Meanwhile, while I was genuinely excited when we made the trade with Detroit, inexplicably...Derrick Rose has been playing lights fucking out at POINT FUCKING GUARD.  [/i][/color]

There was chatter about the Knicks bringing Rick Brunson on board the better to entuce his son into donning a Knicks uniform.  I think Mark Cuban would beg to differ, unless we wanted to take back Porzingis' contract.  Likwise DeJounte Murray, whom Pops seems to really love. 

Don't quote me on this, but my understanding is Knicks management is divided on Lonzo Ball.  Out of all the names we are discussing, he makes the most sense, but I think it is a long shot. 

I believe that the Knicks are 22-9 with Rose In The Lineup.  As of April 19 they were 15-7. 

Agree that the signing of Vildoza would seem to signal taps for Ntilikina, supplanted at the point by Rose, and at combo guard by Burks and Quickley.  Likely also fare thee well for Elfrid.  That real defensive vs real offensive +/- was not exactly film at eleven. 

Finally, don't mean to go all Jared Harper on your ass, but the Vildoza signing was a damn interesting move.  Perhaps he slots in as more of a combo guard lightning bug like IQ, but based on what I saw of his Argentinian homeboy last night,  Xmas may have arrived early for Knicks fans. He's got skills, and he appears to have a nice competitive attitude.     
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 07, 2021, 03:28:57 AM
BallZo is just 23.  Played with Randle his rook season, with both starting.
So should check in with Julius on Ball's balling.
LonZo arrived in NO just after Randle left.  So they know many of the same folks.

Would seem to be a good player and good asset for NYK to have.
BallZo has shot 37.5% on 3's last two years in NOPe on high volume.
Not a traditional PG, so Randle could still do a good deal of facilitating (and getting Zo open 3's). Ball plays solid/strong D.  Seems a lot like what the Knix could use.
Take pressure and wear off of Rose.  Both can function on/off the ball.

Check the fit and either roll with ZoBall long-term, or later flip him for value.
The kind of quality young player that could be used to upgrade if needed/desired (sort of the way Bledsoe, Conley, Rubio and Kyrie have been shuffled around).

Seems like both a good fit now and good asset accumulation to me and the homeless neighborhood guy ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jerrya on May 07, 2021, 11:47:05 AM
Looks like 3-3 over the last 6 games might be good enough to hold on to 4th place.  I don't think tonight will be one of them.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 07, 2021, 12:35:52 PM
If Randle takes the extension and they both want to play here together, I have no problem throwing a big bag at Zo. I just don’t feel any urgency about it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on May 07, 2021, 04:55:03 PM
Nice piece on Melo.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/31399985/why-carmelo-anthony-resurgence-means-much-young-nba-superstars (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/31399985/why-carmelo-anthony-resurgence-means-much-young-nba-superstars)
Title: HOPELESS IGNORANCE
Post by: carlos123 on May 07, 2021, 08:39:16 PM
Quote from: bozizzley on May 07, 2021, 01:31:09 AM
I'm not fixated on Lillard.  Chip picked up a Lillard rumor from somewhere and I thought most of you guys were nuts for not liking it, despite it being incredibly unrealistic that POR would ditch Lillard, let alone in such a lopsided trade.

Knix need a legit starting PG.  Hard to see where we get one.
Lillard isn't perfect -- age, expense, defense -- but checks one helluva lotta boxes that Knix really need  -- clutch scoring, leadership, ballhandling, offense, PG-errific, cajones de brasso (note: not a czarlos approved translation, use at your own risk).

I'll take either Ball.  It's hard to see Fox becoming available.
I'd take Lowry on a bloated 1 or 2 year deal.
Brunson is an interesting backup.
Dinwiddie?
INDy imploding -- I'd take The Frog (Brogdon).
DeJounte is what we hoped Franc would become. But he hasn't really clicked yet -- Thibs would love him.
I wouldn't want Tangelo, Westbrook, Wall, Schroder ...

Things happen and a player might shake loose, but for now it's hard to see any quality PG's becoming attainable (except perhaps LonZo). Or we bowl over POR with our role player extravaganza ...

Lonzo, Brogdon, Dinwiddie, Brunson, DeJounte is all I've come up with ...
Pair them with Rose.
The Argentinian addition sure says goodbye to Franco.  There was no way we were picking up a $9M tab on him.

BoZ, I thought I schooled you once before and I also thought at the time that maybe you had learned something.

I WAS WRONG. Your IGNORANCE is HOPELESS. I don't think you are malicious, just plain ignorant and unable to learn.

Maybe my doggie is right about you, after all.

I ain't gonna try again, it would be a wasted effort.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 07, 2021, 10:42:57 PM
After 1st quarter
Payton -11
Rose +14
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 07, 2021, 11:16:42 PM
What happened 1st half?
Only caught the last minute.
And so far on a PHX feed.
There's 18 links, so hopefully I'll unearth CLyde & MSG ...

Looks like Rose was blooming.
Elf came up small and Franc got minutes with Burks out.

Saw PHX the other day and 1st half, Book looked like Kobe.  Just getting where he wanted and killing it.  Book has scored over 30 last 4 games.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 07, 2021, 11:23:03 PM
Big 3!

Julius, RJ, Derrick
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 07, 2021, 11:25:30 PM
MSg feed online:
http://www.usagoals.video/c/basketball/nba/07-05-2021/phoenix-suns-vs-new-york-knicks/8/

Ann Meyers calling the game on the PHX local feed.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 07, 2021, 11:30:54 PM
It's seemed RJB's hasn't been D-ing up well last 4 /5 games.
Some of it might be having to guard bigger players, Markk and Gordon.
But also, might be a little tired, worn down and it's a road trip and he's played many minute s(3rd in the League last i looked).


Cam Payne has been playing well last 10 games.

RJB with a concentration lapse to end the 3Q...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 07, 2021, 11:59:36 PM
2nd half not going well ...

Ayton & Bridges really good 3Q.

72-42 2nd half with a little over 2 mins left ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 08, 2021, 12:35:54 AM
We massively let go of the rope. It would be nice to get at least a split in LA. Fortunately Boston dropped one tonight as well. The margin is shrinking as is the number of games left to play.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 08, 2021, 01:05:01 AM
Yeah, BOS got killed.  Outscored every Q. 
Tatum just 3-15 FG.  Kemba 33 which has to be encouraging.  Jaylen out.

MIA won.
Hero & Dragic combined 20-32 FG off the bench for 50 Points. (9-14 on 3's).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 08, 2021, 10:35:07 AM
Halftime leads are nice but are Knicks shooting their loads in road games rather than have plenty in the tank last 6-8 minutes of the contest?

Sprinkle in more bench minutes early, maybe?

I know some of you mentioned this before
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 08, 2021, 11:18:22 AM
Bench kinda thin with Mitch, IQ, Burks out.

I didn't like Taj cheap-shotting CP3, and then Randle running over Crowder late.
We saw Memf go out as poor losers.  Rather unappealing.
Knix shouldn't go in for that.
It was CP3's 36 birthday too ...


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 08, 2021, 05:48:09 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on May 08, 2021, 10:35:07 AM
Halftime leads are nice but are Knicks shooting their loads in road games rather than have plenty in the tank last 6-8 minutes of the contest?

Sprinkle in more bench minutes early, maybe?

I know some of you mentioned this before

Got to put the Elf on the shelf, at least to start the second half. He can provide a nice spark when he hits his groove, but while we can overcome the routine slow starts, the way we come out of the gate at halftime gives our opponents great confidence which is an especially big problem when the opponent is good.

Rose is clearly more skilled at getting this team to click as its point guard. Thibs is either saving this for post season or taking a really modern and enlightened approach to preserving player health with an eye toward career longevity.

That’s not the whole problem, just an especially glaring aspect worth pointing out.

-23
-17
-2
0
+17

Despite that I expect him to start the rest of the regular season but I really doubt he’s back next year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on May 08, 2021, 06:19:22 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on May 08, 2021, 05:48:09 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on May 08, 2021, 10:35:07 AM
Halftime leads are nice but are Knicks shooting their loads in road games rather than have plenty in the tank last 6-8 minutes of the contest?

Sprinkle in more bench minutes early, maybe?

I know some of you mentioned this before

Got to put the Elf on the shelf, at least to start the second half. He can provide a nice spark when he hits his groove, but while we can overcome the routine slow starts, the way we come out of the gate at halftime gives our opponents great confidence which is an especially big problem when the opponent is good.

Rose is clearly more skilled at getting this team to click as its point guard. Thibs is either saving this for post season or taking a really modern and enlightened approach to preserving player health with an eye toward career longevity.

That’s not the whole problem, just an especially glaring aspect worth pointing out.

-23
-17
-2
0
+17

Despite that I expect him to start the rest of the regular season but I really doubt he’s back next year.

At this point, I feel like that move is disruptive.

Moreover Payton's play in the 2nd half was not a great issue. Bo's comment regarding Barrett's fatigue was more telling and there's no question he played poorly in stretches. His turnover at the end of the 3rd quarter was the beginning of the end.

Right now, the Knicks have two stars — not three — and their last names begin with an "R."

Maybe that will change in the next month. We'll see. Meanwhile, having IQ and Burks out at the same time absolutely dampens our firepower.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 08, 2021, 06:41:52 PM
I’m all for giving him the rest of the regular season and probably the first stretch of the first playoff game, but unless he has some kind of epiphany along the way I don’t know how much I want to see him after that.

He’s gotten worse as the pressure has gone up. Maybe signing Lil Luca has gotten in his head.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 08, 2021, 07:06:56 PM
If we’re gonna lose Frank which is looking more and more likely, I hope we draft Chris Duarte out of Oregon. He’s old at 24 but he’s ready and he has quite a bag. We’ll have two picks toward the back of the first round right now so one could be a kid to develop while the other is a plug and play adult.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 08, 2021, 08:09:37 PM
Justice Winslow joins CAA.
Title: Future Projections
Post by: chipstern on May 08, 2021, 10:21:10 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on May 08, 2021, 07:06:56 PM
If we’re gonna lose Frank which is looking more and more likely, I hope we draft Chris Duarte out of Oregon. He’s old at 24 but he’s ready and he has quite a bag. We’ll have two picks toward the back of the first round right now so one could be a kid to develop while the other is a plug and play adult.

I suspect the best available 3/4 & D is going to factor in. 

We are [well, I've been] pencilling in Reggie Bullock to come back, and Burks and Noel as well. 

Hardly a given. 

Or Rose for that matter, though and Thibs seemed joined at the hip, and their mutual revival has been inspiring.  Hard to imagine Rose wanting to NOT PLAY at a fill Garden. 

Derrick-Immanuel-Luca

Immanuel and Luca are combo guards, so we get scoring coverage at the 2 spot as well. 

Frank and Elfrid would appear to be goners. 

Knicks invested time and money in Jared Harper, but reading the writing in Thibs entrails, not sure he factors at all into our future plans. 

Anyway, we really need to get up off the canvas for the Clippers.  I know we are a second tier team, but we cannot come out of this road trip without bopping one of the top tier teams. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 09, 2021, 08:26:51 AM
Too bad for Frank and Kevin but I think Obi and obviously RJ will be re-signed.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 09, 2021, 10:45:28 AM
Of the 4, it's just Ntlikina whose contract is up.

We can match offers.

1 more year for Knox's deal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on May 09, 2021, 04:14:34 PM
Dammit, Frank is going to have to show something if he's in there.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on May 09, 2021, 05:54:58 PM
Knicks make statement.

Even if Randle not shooting well.....we will beat you!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 09, 2021, 06:08:42 PM
That was magnificent! I thought we had no chance without Quickley and Burks. Great D and good ball movement got us through.

I hope we a healthier against the Lakers and beat them senseless on our way home for the final stretch.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on May 09, 2021, 06:10:40 PM
Rose outplayed everyone today.
Title: Unless I Missed Something...
Post by: chipstern on May 09, 2021, 07:22:39 PM
WE would APPEAR to have a POINT GUARD.
Title: In Case You Didn't Notice
Post by: chipstern on May 09, 2021, 07:23:42 PM
Defense won that game. 

First victory against the Clippers in LA since 2010. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 09, 2021, 07:26:42 PM
Both RJ and Bullock outplayed Paul George. The Klaw had no second banana and had a hard enough job getting points up himself.
Title: Re: Unless I Missed Something...
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 10, 2021, 10:28:48 AM
Quote from: chipstern on May 09, 2021, 07:22:39 PM
WE would APPEAR to have a POINT GUARD.

Good player

Never disputed - by anyone
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on May 10, 2021, 11:20:38 AM
Yes. Of course.

But is he still a Great player?

Can he consistently make a decisive impact on the game?

THAT'S what's been revelatory in the last couple of months.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 10, 2021, 12:53:40 PM
One up on Hawks and Heat.

Should be clear of Celtics

6 v 3 series our worst outcome

This really was a huge win
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 10, 2021, 12:55:57 PM
PELICANS LIVE as Lonzos best LaMelos.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 10, 2021, 12:59:27 PM
Quote from: elephant on May 10, 2021, 11:20:38 AM
Yes. Of course.

But is he still a Great player?

Can he consistently make a decisive impact on the game?

THAT'S what's been revelatory in the last couple of months.

We shall see

It is always about projecting production.

Knicks will have a plan B.

My point wa sthat Chipstern wasnt saying anything that we all didnt already know
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 10, 2021, 01:04:24 PM
Derrick-Immanuel-Luca


The new guy is getting a LOOK this summer.  Nothing more - and not much guaranteed

Frank and Elfrid would appear to be goners.


Mr Payton has been offed before on this board.

Knicks invested time and money in Jared Harper, but reading the writing in Thibs entrails, not sure he factors at all into our future plans.


You were the last to know
Title: Chamaco is being IGNORED
Post by: carlos123 on May 10, 2021, 06:36:18 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on May 10, 2021, 12:59:27 PM

My point wa sthat Chipstern wasnt saying anything that we all didnt already know

Quote from: chamacocartero8 on May 10, 2021, 01:04:24 PM
Derrick-Immanuel-Luca


The new guy is getting a LOOK this summer.  Nothing more - and not much guaranteed

Frank and Elfrid would appear to be goners.


Mr Payton has been offed before on this board.

Knicks invested time and money in Jared Harper, but reading the writing in Thibs entrails, not sure he factors at all into our future plans.


You were the last to know

Chamaco, you're really trying hard to provoke Chip.

So far, NO LUCK!

Chip, I hope this doesn't make you throw up, but I think CHAMACO IS IN LOVE WITH YOU 💘💔💕

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3ccXqcd0I8LemOEB5cCBkscsGZjQIoM6oP2yZ728X3AY3F9AZbJU77zFlOdZTO9ROc4jHuFqYO7ebvWKZZjH9AbGFWTKA5OarnhuTFXcvVIsXX4xo3JJ8oXxwRyCbsV15oO028ZrmMfGYBdbfDMSly4=w626-h570-no?authuser=0)
Title: Damn!!!
Post by: carlos123 on May 10, 2021, 06:57:56 PM

Will LeBron play in Lakers' next game vs. Knicks?
Adrian Wojnarowski reports LeBron James was a full participant in the Lakers' last practice and it is likely he will play vs. the Knicks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 10, 2021, 07:40:55 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on May 10, 2021, 01:04:24 PM

Mr Payton has been offed before on this board.


And one, glorious glorious day, he'll be offed for good.

I'll preside at the graveside service and pay for the wake, too!
Title: Damn!!! (2)
Post by: carlos123 on May 10, 2021, 10:09:49 PM
And Atlanta just beat Washington by a grand total of 1: 125-124.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 10, 2021, 10:37:48 PM
3 way tie for 4th after tomorrow
Title: Re: Damn!!! (2)
Post by: Kam on May 10, 2021, 11:08:14 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 10, 2021, 10:09:49 PM
And Atlanta just beat Washington by a grand total of 1: 125-124.

Beal didn't play.  The two teams play again wednesday.
Title: Re: Damn!!! (2)
Post by: carlos123 on May 10, 2021, 11:29:31 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 10, 2021, 11:08:14 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 10, 2021, 10:09:49 PM
And Atlanta just beat Washington by a grand total of 1: 125-124.

Beal didn't play.  The two teams play again wednesday.

Well, I thought Superman Westbrook could take care of Atlanta all by himself. Let’s hope he does on Wednesday 🤞
Title: Compadre Carlos & The Mar-A Lago Miscreant
Post by: chipstern on May 11, 2021, 08:35:03 PM
Being on Ignore, my suspension of contact with the constituent from Mar-A-Lago is blissfully non-existent. 

Of course, the smell of the odd brainfart wafts in over the transome when those who share my disdain--but have a greater tolerance for losers--report back on the latest effusion of fecal emissions. 

As my spiritual proxy, I appreciate your due dilligence, nor am I surprised by the notice as you have passed along that Man Coulter seeks to provoke me. 

So long as he remains in my imperfect but resolute IGNORE Mar-A-Largo, I could give a fiddler's fuck what this dreary spiritual cipher thinks, about me, the Knicks or his dreary MAGA concerns. 

I do appreciated you passing along the odd QUOTE, but it is not necessary.  It does not require much imagination, only a very infantile one, to imagine what giblets of profanity are being postulate by HE WHO MAKES HIS OWN GRAVY. 

I can debate, and contest, and argue and even get downright snarky with you and BoD, and Facil, and Kam, and Dawg and Elephant and Luee and what few members of this old gang of ours linger in ELBA, and yet maintain some level of genuine camraderie, bonded as we are by our long suffering obsession and our  deeply abiding love of the Knicks.   

Only one member of this forum revels in the notion of the drive by shooting, and relishes his abillity to poop in the collective punch bowl. 

He is a dreary little poltroon who craves attention.  Been there, done that. 

A coward dies a thousand times before his death, but the valiant taste of death but once.
Title: Poltroon Cartero
Post by: carlos123 on May 11, 2021, 08:48:41 PM
You just taught me a new word, which I agree fully applies to Chamaco.

Thanks Chip 🙏🏼
Title: From The Crock Pot To The Crackpot
Post by: chipstern on May 11, 2021, 09:09:11 PM
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/6e/d2/23/6ed223ac0cbd501d6f194cbc90793e9f.gif)

No Need For Throw Up Dates, Compadre. 

Poltroon Fierce, aka, Cartero, is a fail-spree predictable, barely functional crackpot. 

(https://i.imgur.com/pyvMyTv.gif)

GORT has been programmed to vaporize all crackpots.

Leave him to his gravy making crock pot process. 

(https://media0.giphy.com/media/9PzaFqVyxtXnwvNL5A/giphy.gif)
Title: Pharoah, Come Home Shane....
Post by: chipstern on May 11, 2021, 09:26:16 PM
(https://64.media.tumblr.com/8bbb365e956b6d8594a7280d215957c9/425a81d7dc4e8059-a7/s400x600/862d350f87b430945d710ea79c68ca138ca4e126.gifv)

Boy oh boy do we ever miss your in depth analysis.

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/ae292fffb09a07ea8003037096008584/3e2bfb35eb560da4-de/s400x600/112b5a5498eecb40f6dcfa0a88e3126831fbb7dc.gifv)

Sure do hope everything is okay with you and yours in that quadrant of the universe beyond the three point stripe were you and your family abide. 



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 11, 2021, 10:01:16 PM
Eight  teams can win the NBA title in 2021.

I am watching one now and will watch one later tonight
Title: Damn!!! (3)
Post by: carlos123 on May 11, 2021, 10:05:14 PM
And Miami beating Boston!

We better beat the Fakers tonight!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 11, 2021, 11:21:13 PM
Fun game so far! Frankie with more minutes than Elfrid...and earned ‘em.
Title: God....DAMN
Post by: chipstern on May 11, 2021, 11:22:18 PM
👁🖤👁
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 12, 2021, 12:17:42 AM
Frankie!! At both ends...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on May 12, 2021, 12:18:31 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on May 11, 2021, 11:21:13 PM
Fun game so far! Frankie with more minutes than Elfrid...and earned ‘em.

Great no look by Frank.

Next
Man
UP

MANNING UP
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: hungrycharlie on May 12, 2021, 12:21:18 AM
It's good to see Frank with some nice contributions on both ends.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 12, 2021, 01:01:52 AM
D! Rose!!!
Title: DAMN!!!
Post by: carlos123 on May 12, 2021, 01:04:45 AM
It was so close 😢
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 12, 2021, 01:12:27 AM
Proof we can no longer afford to play Elfrid Payton.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on May 12, 2021, 01:18:17 AM
This one hurt. It's was Julius' game to win. Just couldn't get it done this time.

Great defense throughout. Frank as strong as I've seen him.

On offense, very little ball movement. Especially after the 5 minute mark in the 4th quarter, just grinding it out with Rose or Randle. Seems easier for Lakers to defend, more predictable.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on May 12, 2021, 01:19:47 AM
Nothing was working for Barrett.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 12, 2021, 02:13:54 AM
We need Quick and Burks back to loosen things up.

I’ll take the six if it means picking ahead of the four and five.

Frank was our second best perimeter player today.
Title: Damn
Post by: chipstern on May 12, 2021, 10:10:51 AM
That was one hell of a game. 

How many lead changes? 

I told a friend early on that it felt like one basket would decide it. 

Lakers D on the Knicks final possesion was epic. 

Nothing to be ashamed of. 

Still, it is worth noting that Julius took it like a captain, a leader to the end, and told the press to put that loss on him.  "I didn't get it done." 

Duly noted.  But hey, 3-3 on a West Coast swing?  If I'd told you THAT in December, y'all had said,
"I'll take it," never you mind that who amongst us thought we'd be talking about playoff seeding? 

PS: THIBS!  That next man up mantra is no BS.  I was so proud of Frank.  He played with a purpose and a focus and an attitude, and with Burks and Quickley on deck, he could very well be planted next to Knox in our next game.  I thought it was very interesting to see him tasked with being the off the ball 2 next to Rose. 

PPS: Kept waiting for RJ to have his no rear view mirror moment in the second half, but it never happenned.  Occurs to me that not having Burks or Quickley out there, and with Bullock not impoactful as an offensive force, that the floor spaching they would normally open up, didn't allow RJ to get into his downhill mode effectively. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 12, 2021, 11:32:44 AM
Can Washington get the eighth seed?  What a story that would be.

1 game back of both Indiana and Charlotte.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 12, 2021, 11:43:33 AM
Leadership, I guess

But Randle putting that loss on himself is ridiculous

Drummond addition will sure help LA in playoffs.  Oh well.....
Title: A Day Wouldn't Be A Day Without Your Idiocy
Post by: lesterluv on May 12, 2021, 12:14:04 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on May 12, 2021, 11:43:33 AM
Leadership, I guess

But Randle putting that loss on himself is ridiculous

Drummond addition will sure help LA in playoffs.  Oh well.....


Surely his complete failure to move and thus allow his man Anthony F'ing Davis to sit as part of a three man wall SQUARELY IN FRONT OF RJ before the critical game end shot attempt played a contributing role.

But he's a man, owning up...something you will never be, lol...


*Great game by Julius

** If there's blame — and really no need for any — it's on Thibs for not finding a wee bench break for Rose at the beginning of the fourth when he was clearly gassed and made about four terrible plays in a row. Either shifting Frank over for a few minutes, or, lol, even putting Elf back in for a few (as few as necessary!). But Thibs is a man too, surely knows that, and will adjust as necessary, and of course the return of Burks/Quick helps tremendously.

*** Drummond is pure a$$, but he is a big one with a few skills, LBJ will absolutely maximize them to his purposes — no one is better in the entire league at that — and probably even help him get a small contract on another team the following season. I am so glad Drummond is NOT ON OUR TEAM.

Title: Re: A Day Wouldn't Be A Day Without Your Idiocy
Post by: elephant on May 12, 2021, 01:00:38 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on May 12, 2021, 12:14:04 PM


** If there's blame — and really no need for any — it's on Thibs for not finding a wee bench break for Rose at the beginning of the fourth when he was clearly gassed and made about four terrible plays in a row. Either shifting Frank over for a few minutes, or, lol, even putting Elf back in for a few (as few as necessary!). But Thibs is a man too, surely knows that, and will adjust as necessary, and of course the return of Burks/Quick helps tremendously.


Yeah, you've got a point in the fine print.

Rose looked noticeably fatigued in the second half. I don't remember seeing him quite like that.

BTW, I think we're a much better team than the Lebron-less Lakers. That's what made the loss particularly tough.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 12, 2021, 01:35:58 PM
On THT's game winning 3, Randle dropped back far, leaving Rose to guard two players.  With 6 still on the shot clock, THT could have passed back to a wide open AD for a 3.  Randle can't guard no one on such a key play.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 12, 2021, 01:56:44 PM
BTW, I think we're a much better team than the Lebron-less Lakers. That's what made the loss particularly tough.


hmmmm

That's some praise there

note:  no Schroder as well
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on May 12, 2021, 02:25:53 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on May 12, 2021, 01:56:44 PM
BTW, I think we're a much better team than the Lebron-less Lakers. That's what made the loss particularly tough.


hmmmm

That's some praise there

note:  no Schroder as well

Was not a backhanded compliment.

Note the word "much."
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on May 12, 2021, 02:29:56 PM
I think the Knicks have shown they can compete with ANY team in the league.
Title: Re: Damn
Post by: Kam on May 12, 2021, 04:41:54 PM
Quote from: chipstern on May 12, 2021, 10:10:51 AM


Lakers D on the Knicks final possesion was epic. 



More like poor O execution.
Nice breakdown of the breakdown
https://twitter.com/NekiasNBA/status/1392349962785153028 (https://twitter.com/NekiasNBA/status/1392349962785153028)

Title: NEXT...
Post by: chipstern on May 12, 2021, 05:23:58 PM
** If there's blame — and really no need for any — it's on Thibs for not finding a wee bench break for Rose at the beginning of the fourth when he was clearly gassed and made about four terrible plays in a row. Either shifting Frank over for a few minutes, or, lol, even putting Elf back in for a few (as few as necessary!). But Thibs is a man too, surely knows that, and will adjust as necessary, and of course the return of Burks/Quick helps tremendously.

Thibs and his Capos seem to have concluded that Frank is a stronger more effective presence off the ball.  Seeing him as a 2-guard next to Rose was very interesting. 

Clearly, Rose's oxygen break would've been served by minutes from IQ or Burks or Vildoza were they available. 

They all attract attention on the perimeter, which opens up space for Julius and RJ to operate perimeter or open up driving/dishing lanes. 

Not exactly an insight to note that Elfrid's strengths in Thibs' scheme are mainly on the defensive side of the ball.  He did have a nice drive and finish early on before Rose made his first appearance. 

PS: Spurs were 17-29 from TREY against the Bucks the other night.  We'd better be Ready for Freddie. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 12, 2021, 08:57:10 PM
I knew I didnt like this cat

https://sports.yahoo.com/jrue-holiday-i-feel-like-im-the-defensive-player-of-the-year-every-year-180824910.html
Title: Damn!!! (4)
Post by: carlos123 on May 12, 2021, 09:56:19 PM
Washington lost to Atlanta, and now they have half a game on us. DAMN!!!

Washington was ahead most of the game. Superman Westbrook played like a real Superman for 40 minutes, just couldn't do it alone.

DAMN!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on May 12, 2021, 11:36:12 PM
So congrats to our boys.

I believe Knicks still have home court advantage if.....

[1] Knicks win the last three
[2] Heat loses at least one game in the last three (and they do play Philly and the Bucks)
[3] Doesn't matter what the Hawks do
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on May 12, 2021, 11:38:46 PM
If we don't get home-field advantage, we'll play one of the following four teams:

Hawks
Heat
Bucks
Nets

Who do you prefer we meet?
Title: Who do you prefer?
Post by: carlos123 on May 12, 2021, 11:44:06 PM
Quote from: elephant on May 12, 2021, 11:38:46 PM
If we don't get home-field advantage, we'll play one of the following four teams:

Hawks
Heat
Bucks
Nets

Who do you prefer we meet?

Hawks!!!

Me and everybody else... ok, maybe Chamaco has a different preference 🤡
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 13, 2021, 02:28:25 AM
Thank you Cavs. We’re somewhere 4-6. Winning out seems like the right thing to do in this instance, though we’ll be very short handed in the backcourt. Might see real run for Harper in the home stretch.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on May 13, 2021, 10:17:07 AM
Its all gravy this season. No complaint at all about TT he obviously is mainly concerned about defensive intensity. Coach of the year?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 13, 2021, 11:16:29 AM
Monty.
Title: JUSTIN TIME? Tantalizing Conjecture Of The Week
Post by: chipstern on May 13, 2021, 12:10:18 PM
OKay....WARNING: It's MARC BERMAN, so consdier the source and draw your own conclusions, but I had heard last year that the Grizz were not sold on Jaren Jackson Jr. and that there was Knicks interest. 

How this would effect our relationships with Mitchell and Nerlens, Taj and Obi going forward? 

What did Thibs say about having a predilection for talented players? 

Anyway, I apologize for projecting forward to the the draft and free agency and trade notions, but I've a soft spot for this young man going back to the draft, and while we are waiting on the worrisome Spurs and our final three games of the regular season--AND THE QUEST FOR THE FOURTH SEED--this was something I thought would be of interest to the TRADER VICS amongst us. 

Whispers in Memphis are the Grizzlies aren’t yet sold on their 2018 lottery pick, 6-foot-11 power forward/center Jaren Jackson Jr.


They’re concerned about his durability. In late April, Jackson, 21, made his return from an extended absence after he tore the meniscus in his left knee last August while playing in the NBA bubble. Jackson has started just two of the nine games he has played this season and he has taken periodic games off for “injury management.’’ Jackson is averaging 14.6 points in 23 minutes per game.

The Knicks recently hired Jackson’s father, Jaren Sr., to be an assistant coach with the G-League Westchester Knicks. Jackson Jr. is also a former Creative Artists Agency client of current Knicks president Leon Rose and is now with CAA’s Austin Brown.

Sources also said Knicks general manager Scott Perry loved Jackson’s athleticism coming out of Michigan State as the draft’s youngest player when Memphis selected him fourth overall.

Jackson, who threw down a vicious dunk and made two 3-pointers in front of Knicks senior vice president William Wesley during the Knicks’ 118-104 win in Memphis on May 3, will enter the final $9.1 million year of his four-year contract next season. If he doesn’t sign an extension this fall, his future bears watching. Could Jackson play a small-ball 5 role with Julius Randle?
Title: Jakob Poeltl [Bad Trades Revisited]
Post by: chipstern on May 13, 2021, 12:20:22 PM
Tom Orsborn: Pop on Poeltl: “What’s most amazing about him is his consistency. He’s a real pro. He comes every night and gives what he should give, what he can give, and it’s consistent. That’s the best part of him.”

Tom Orsborn: Pop on Jakob’s near triple-double against the Bucks: “He’s still angry at me for taking him out of the game before he got that. I got to live with it.”


Remember Glen Grunwald?  Acolyte of Donnie "I Dreamed I Drafted Jordan Hill Last Night" Walsh?  He gave away YET ANOTHER #1 pick to the Raptors in the BARGNAINI Heist. 

And who who did THAT turn in to? 

Jakob Poeltl

Came over to the Spurs with DeRozan in the Kawhi deal. 

And slowly, imperceptibly has been evolving into a solid NBA role player in the Spurs mold under Coach Pops. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 13, 2021, 12:29:03 PM
ARGO fuck yourself.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 13, 2021, 01:28:42 PM
Who T F is argo? lol....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 13, 2021, 01:41:08 PM
Sometimes Kid lets the meth do the typing. He’s the wrong person to ask.
Title: IGNORED
Post by: carlos123 on May 13, 2021, 04:03:27 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on May 13, 2021, 12:29:03 PM
ARGO fuck yourself.

Quote from: Les on May 13, 2021, 01:28:42 PM
Who T F is argo? lol....

Quote from: Fac on May 13, 2021, 01:41:08 PM
Sometimes Kid lets the meth do the typing. He’s the wrong person to ask.

You people don't understand Chamaco. It's NOT the meth, though that might help, and it's not argo, whoever that can be, no.

Chamaco is just venting his frustration. Like I said before, he's in love with Chip, and Chip is not even rejecting him. He's just IGNORING him. That's the worst you can do to Chamaco. Someone please give him the suicide hotline number.

Anyway, Fac is right about the person to ask, not Chamaco:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71ljYHPm4NL._SL1024_.jpg)
Title: Re: JUSTIN TIME? Tantalizing Conjecture Of The Week
Post by: carlos123 on May 13, 2021, 04:17:55 PM
Quote from: chipstern on May 13, 2021, 12:10:18 PM
OKay....WARNING: It's MARC BERMAN, so consdier the source and draw your own conclusions, but I had heard last year that the Grizz were not sold on Jaren Jackson Jr. and that there was Knicks interest. 

How this would effect our relationships with Mitchell and Nerlens, Taj and Obi going forward? 



Major disruption to our frontcourt. Not sure about this move at all, if it's indeed in the cards.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 13, 2021, 07:13:34 PM
It's a Knock Knock joke.


Knock Knock

Who's There?

Argo.

Argo who?

Argo fuck yourself.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 13, 2021, 07:14:01 PM
Knickola Jokic?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 13, 2021, 08:01:15 PM
Oh My God!

Knicks could have had Eubanks.



(too funny)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 13, 2021, 10:28:16 PM
39-31.

Tough gritty win. We have a playoff big 4 in Randle, RJ, Burks, and Rose with strong complimentary pieces.
Title: YES!!!
Post by: carlos123 on May 13, 2021, 10:46:02 PM
Quote from: Fac on May 13, 2021, 10:28:16 PM
39-31.

Tough gritty win. We have a playoff big 4 in Randle, RJ, Burks, and Rose with strong complimentary pieces.

YES INDEED!!!

Now we really need to win the last two games, and hope that either Atlanta or Miami lose one, hopefully that both lose, as we are now 6th.
Title: Re: YES!!!
Post by: elephant on May 13, 2021, 10:54:07 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 13, 2021, 10:46:02 PM
Quote from: Fac on May 13, 2021, 10:28:16 PM
39-31.

Tough gritty win. We have a playoff big 4 in Randle, RJ, Burks, and Rose with strong complimentary pieces.

YES INDEED!!!

Now we really need to win the last two games, and hope that either Atlanta or Miami lose one, hopefully that both lose, as we are now 6th.

Atlanta unlikely to lose. But Miami does have the 76ers in front of them. We have the tiebreaker with the Hawks, so if the Heat can lose a game and we win the last two, it doesn't matter what Atlanta does, we'll have 4th place and home court.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on May 13, 2021, 10:55:36 PM
That said, did Thibs really have to play Randle 45 minutes tonight?

I know we'll get a week off, but Jesus.
Title: Wow stat
Post by: Kam on May 13, 2021, 11:04:53 PM
Alec Burks 30 and 10 off the bench.
Title: Re: YES!!!
Post by: elephant on May 14, 2021, 12:18:04 AM
Quote from: elephant on May 13, 2021, 10:54:07 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 13, 2021, 10:46:02 PM
Quote from: Fac on May 13, 2021, 10:28:16 PM
39-31.

Tough gritty win. We have a playoff big 4 in Randle, RJ, Burks, and Rose with strong complimentary pieces.

YES INDEED!!!

Now we really need to win the last two games, and hope that either Atlanta or Miami lose one, hopefully that both lose, as we are now 6th.

Atlanta unlikely to lose. But Miami does have the 76ers in front of them. We have the tiebreaker with the Hawks, so if the Heat can lose a game and we win the last two, it doesn't matter what Atlanta does, we'll have 4th place and home court.

Whoops....I meant that the Heat plays the Bucks. They just knocked off the 76ers.
Title: Re: YES!!!
Post by: carlos123 on May 14, 2021, 12:22:30 AM
Quote from: elephant on May 13, 2021, 10:54:07 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 13, 2021, 10:46:02 PM
Quote from: Fac on May 13, 2021, 10:28:16 PM
39-31.

Tough gritty win. We have a playoff big 4 in Randle, RJ, Burks, and Rose with strong complimentary pieces.

YES INDEED!!!

Now we really need to win the last two games, and hope that either Atlanta or Miami lose one, hopefully that both lose, as we are now 6th.

Atlanta unlikely to lose. But Miami does have the 76ers in front of them. We have the tiebreaker with the Hawks, so if the Heat can lose a game and we win the last two, it doesn't matter what Atlanta does, we'll have 4th place and home court.

Well, ok with Atlanta, but the Heat just beat the 76ers and they have the tiebreaker with us, so we better hope they lose one and we win both. The loss with the Fakers really hurt. We need Rose back for the last two.

PS. Oops! We posted at the same time, and yours got in first. Anyway, we need Riley’s team to lose one.
Title: Re: Wow stat
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 14, 2021, 10:02:28 AM
Quote from: Kam on May 13, 2021, 11:04:53 PM
Alec Burks 30 and 10 off the bench.

Burks cant play much

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 14, 2021, 10:29:18 AM
Happy 21st Birthday (tomorrow), Cole Anthony

Has had a pretty good rookie season

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/anthoco01.html
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 14, 2021, 10:30:27 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2020, 10:24:27 AM
BILAS (lots of stuff here)


https://espnpressroom.com/us/press-releases/2020/11/transcript-2020-nba-draft-preview-with-college-basketball-analyst-jay-bilas/


Q: One of those guys that might be down the list, we’ve talked about him before, Cole Anthony. It’s funny, he came back a lot of guys would have done that, he obviously didn’t have a great year, but are you surprised when you see these mocks that have him going in the early twenties, late teens? What do you make of that?

Jay Bilas: Yes. I make of it that in today’s world it’s a right now thing. You know, Cole was a top five talent coming into last year. I didn’t know anybody that didn’t have him in the top five among prospects for this year’s draft. He got injured and then he played on a team that didn’t perform at a high level. So it was a losing North Carolina team that every time you turned around, they’re losing one point games. It’s just a miserable year from a win loss standpoint. But I give them a tremendous amount of credit, like he never shut it down and he kept coming back and playing his tail off like he never gets tired and you know now can we quibble about Okay could you make some better decisions here like You know, it would have been better if he passed it here or, you know, you take some challenge shots. Yeah, but he’s going to get a lot better there. And those are those you know those issues are at the forefront for Anthony Edwards, too. So I’m a believer in Cole, Anthony. I think he’s going to do very well as a pro. And if somebody grabs him at 12 or 10 or whatever, they’re getting the top five talent at that level.

yep
Title: Re: YES!!!
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 14, 2021, 11:46:14 AM
Quote from: elephant on May 14, 2021, 12:18:04 AM
Quote from: elephant on May 13, 2021, 10:54:07 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 13, 2021, 10:46:02 PM
Quote from: Fac on May 13, 2021, 10:28:16 PM
39-31.

Tough gritty win. We have a playoff big 4 in Randle, RJ, Burks, and Rose with strong complimentary pieces.

YES INDEED!!!

Now we really need to win the last two games, and hope that either Atlanta or Miami lose one, hopefully that both lose, as we are now 6th.

Atlanta unlikely to lose. But Miami does have the 76ers in front of them. We have the tiebreaker with the Hawks, so if the Heat can lose a game and we win the last two, it doesn't matter what Atlanta does, we'll have 4th place and home court.

Whoops....I meant that the Heat plays the Bucks. They just knocked off the 76ers.

HEAT have their shit together.

The 4 slot would be nice for NY, sure.  Just hope we do our part - win out.  Keep the current vibe.

At issue - REST vs the 2 wins.  But most of us have been saying Randle and Barrett can handle these long minutes, without long term effect.  I will stay with that.
Title: Send Out A Search Party For BoD
Post by: chipstern on May 14, 2021, 01:21:25 PM
Bo, you okay?

Couldn't imagine you wouldn't be up on line to celebrate our playoff berth and sing the praises of Alec Burks. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWffko5T_xo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWffko5T_xo)

"It's BURKE'S LAW." 

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BOTQyOWFiYmItZTA1OS00MzFjLTg0NmYtYjllZTkyZWQ4YzdhXkEyXkFqcGdeQXRyYW5zY29kZS13b3JrZmxvdw@@._V1_CR0,66,714,402_AL_UX477_CR0,0,477,268_AL_.jpg)  (https://assets-cms.thescore.com/uploads/image/file/434441/w640xh480_GettyImages-1230323234.jpg?ts=1609946514)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 14, 2021, 02:15:23 PM
http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2021/5/14/22433296/why-have-the-knicks-been-getting-off-to-slow-starts-lately (http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2021/5/14/22433296/why-have-the-knicks-been-getting-off-to-slow-starts-lately)

Ball don’t lie.
Title: Thibs & Elfrid
Post by: chipstern on May 14, 2021, 02:46:03 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on May 14, 2021, 02:15:23 PM
http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2021/5/14/22433296/why-have-the-knicks-been-getting-off-to-slow-starts-lately (http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2021/5/14/22433296/why-have-the-knicks-been-getting-off-to-slow-starts-lately)

Ball don’t lie.

Thiboudeau HAS adjusted, with Rose, Quickley, Burks and even Ntilikina.  Hey, when Quickley was clearly rusty and ineffective, he came right out and in came Burks. 

No one, save for perhaps Man Coulter, is suggesting we ignore the evidence of a clear and progressive fall off by Elfrid, but my reading of Thibs is that entering the playoffs we are in an all hands on deck mode, meaning we need everyone to see some daylight in the event they are the next man up. 

And on a more human level, even with the signing of Luca Vildozic signalling as clear as a bell that in moving forward, Elfrid Payton is a placeholder, Thibs has rewarded Payton's loyalty and work ethic and team spirit and solid first half (have we heard peep one from Elfrid about his minutes or the enmity of Knicks "fans") with RESPECT. 

I mean, at the risk of repeating myself, THIBS IS NOT GOING TO TOSS ELFRID UNDER THE BUS. 

Elfrid Payton IS A New York KNICKERBOCKER. 

Get over it motherfuckers.  THIBS HAS. 
Title: I Get...I GET IT
Post by: chipstern on May 14, 2021, 02:55:33 PM
Okay, one can contest my defense and Thibs' reasoning without breaking a sweat. 

Thibs had no problem retaining loyalty to Elfrid, yet bailed on Austin Rivers. 

The exception which proves the rule. 

And in going back through Knicks history, Pat Riley sticking stubbornly with John Starks in Game 7, when he couldn't find his ass with both hands in a rain storm--and Ronaldo Balkman on the bench, ready willing and able--is a classic example of misplaced loyalty. 

The difference. 

Those Knicks were a championship team on the cusp of winning it all. 

THESE KNICKS are a Cinderella Team, the mid-process of a complete and utter culture change on a magic carpet ride, playing as much for the next decade as for the 2021 playoffs. 

Could we get to the second round of the playoffs? 

That would be something, wouldn't it? 

Beyond that lies 1969 Mets Country.  Don't think we have it in us, but hey, believe THIS New York. 

NOBODY WANTS TO PLAY THE KNICKS. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on May 14, 2021, 03:07:19 PM
Yeah, I think we're getting to that second round.

I've agreed with your argument to keep Payton in there. Thought the alternative would be disruptive.

But you're not getting into the 2nd round if you spot a (sometimes significant) lead every first quarter. Gotta fix that shit.  If it's changing a player, that would be the point guard, no?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on May 14, 2021, 05:02:47 PM
Quote from: elephant on May 14, 2021, 03:07:19 PM
Yeah, I think we're getting to that second round.

I've agreed with your argument to keep Payton in there. Thought the alternative would be disruptive.

But you're not getting into the 2nd round if you spot a (sometimes significant) lead every first quarter. Gotta fix that shit.  If it's changing a player, that would be the point guard, no?

True

Thibs is still finessing that, in his mind's eye.
Title: The Defense Rests
Post by: chipstern on May 14, 2021, 06:05:45 PM
Quote from: chipstern on May 14, 2021, 05:02:47 PM
Quote from: elephant on May 14, 2021, 03:07:19 PM
Yeah, I think we're getting to that second round.

I've agreed with your argument to keep Payton in there. Thought the alternative would be disruptive.

But you're not getting into the 2nd round if you spot a (sometimes significant) lead every first quarter. Gotta fix that shit.  If it's changing a player, that would be the point guard, no?

True

Thibs is still finessing that, in his mind's eye.

He's generally been giving Elfrid like 6-7-8 minutes to start each half. 

Be interesting to see if he has a quicker hook over the final two games, against teams that are tough matchups for us, even as they are missing key players. 

Notice last night when he brought in IQ, and he was rusty as a shooter, finisher, facilitator, defender--ALL THE MAJOR FOOD GROUP--and as much as Thibs loves Quickley, he got a quick hook. 

Notice how against the Lakers, there were points, and neither IQ nor Burks were available, where he overlooked Elfrid and went with Frank instead, who made some significant contributions to that game defensively and hitting a couple of threes. 

DEFENSE is clearly a deciding factor for Thibs. 

And why Elfrid lingers in the rotation. 

Look at Bullock. 

He has been inconsistent offensively all year long.  When he is on, he is a deadly sniper, but when he is off. MEH.  He and Julius have a lovely rapport, where Randle often finds him open off of double teams. 

But Bullock is not particularly adept at creating his own shot. 

But what has kept Bullock in the rotation and in Thibs' heart against a backdrop of sometimes desultory offensive performances, is HIS DEFENSIVE TENACITY.  The nature of his game is such that Brazdeikis was shipped out, and Kevin Knox is buried on the pine, and presumably both Burks and RJ can be counted upon as SFs if Rose and Quick are in the back court. 

It's not as if Thibs and Johnnie Bryant and Kenny Payne are not about player development--Mitchell, RJ, IQ, Obi have all made strides though Mitchell derailed by injuries while Obi and IQ on a short leash. 

But it is the vestigial remains of Elfrid's defensive game that keep him in the rotation, and frankly, Rose coming in with/against second units, allows him to get a head of steam up, which serves him well at game's end, where, when not gassed, he has been a superb closer. 

Anyway, kind of hard to second guess Thibs on much.

I mean we were 21-45 in 2019-2020. 

If [IF], God FORBID, we close out 2020-2021 with two more wins? 

41-31

The defense rests your honor. 
Title: Re: Send Out A Search Party For BoZ
Post by: carlos123 on May 14, 2021, 09:20:57 PM
Quote from: chipstern on May 14, 2021, 01:21:25 PM
BoZ, you okay?


I think he's afraid of Les.

Someone needs to tell him that my doggie barks but never bites.

Such a sweet doggie! 🐶 🐩
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 15, 2021, 02:38:14 PM
But you're not getting into the 2nd round if you spot a (sometimes significant) lead every first quarter. Gotta fix that shit.  If it's changing a player, that would be the point guard, no?


C'mon, man - stoppppp....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 15, 2021, 03:30:16 PM
BURKS!!!!

Rose and Quickley had made a mess of it....
Title: 40-31
Post by: chipstern on May 15, 2021, 03:51:29 PM
Really applied the screws to a scrappy Hornets team in overtime.

JR with 33-10-12.

So proud of our Knicks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 15, 2021, 07:49:27 PM
Yep.
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/31449389/source-ex-detroit-pistons-star-ben-wallace-part-basketball-hall-fame-class-2021
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 15, 2021, 10:16:04 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on May 15, 2021, 02:38:14 PM
But you're not getting into the 2nd round if you spot a (sometimes significant) lead every first quarter. Gotta fix that shit.  If it's changing a player, that would be the point guard, no?


C'mon, man - stoppppp....

Keep on keeping on, cause it's as obvious as the Sun rising in the East....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 15, 2021, 10:29:39 PM
Elf still definitely the Knick with the most to prove.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 15, 2021, 10:33:04 PM
Bucks sink Miami. We’re back to controlling our destiny. TCOB time against Boston bright and early.
Title: Fuk Miami
Post by: carlos123 on May 15, 2021, 10:59:27 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on May 15, 2021, 10:33:04 PM
Bucks sink Miami. We’re back to controlling our destiny. TCOB time against Boston bright and early.

Miami couldn't play Butler. Fuk'em, I don't care 😁
Title: Matchups
Post by: chipstern on May 16, 2021, 07:34:38 AM
So.

We're playing today for the home court and a favored match-up with the Hawks, right. 

Be careful what you wish for, Knicks fans. 

Our regular season match-ups against Atlanta count for NOTHING from this point forward. 

Atlanta?  Milwaukee?  BROOKLYN? 

Bring 'em on. 
Title: Come On
Post by: chipstern on May 16, 2021, 07:41:06 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on May 15, 2021, 10:29:39 PM
Elf still definitely the Knick with the most to prove.

One LAST time. 

Elfrid IS a KNICK. 

Win today, a week off to recharge and practice, Practice...PRACTICE. 

Everyone gets a clean slate. 

Elfrid has his coach's support.  Elfrid has his team mates' support.

Time for Knicks fans to extend Payton THEIR support and give the whole off with his head/finger-pointing narrative a fucking rest. 

I mean, come on. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 16, 2021, 12:18:06 PM
Got a break - no Butler yesterday for Heat

Bucks slapped 44 on them first quarter - maybe a message for their first round series.

Does Miami have the tie breaker on us?
Title: Old News Chamaco
Post by: carlos123 on May 16, 2021, 01:00:05 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on May 16, 2021, 12:18:06 PM
Got a break - no Butler yesterday for Heat


So posted I yesterday. I know you love me (though not as much as you love Chip), but you don't have to repeat what I said a day later.

Quote from: chamacocartero8 on May 16, 2021, 12:18:06 PM
Q. Does Miami have the tie breaker on us?

A. Yes.
Title: More good news?
Post by: carlos123 on May 16, 2021, 01:17:07 PM
Boston resting all they starters.

Is that for real, or playing a trick on us?
Title: Elfrid
Post by: chipstern on May 16, 2021, 01:28:21 PM
Having stood up for Elfrid...

I must say that his futility is epic.
Title: The trick
Post by: carlos123 on May 16, 2021, 01:42:25 PM
Quote from: czarlos123 on May 16, 2021, 01:17:07 PM
Boston resting all they starters.

Is that for real, or playing a trick on us?

Yep, the trick is that we're playing down to their level, and that goes for everyone, no only Elfrid.

C'mon guys, wake the fuk up!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on May 16, 2021, 03:30:48 PM
Pretty fucking wonderful year so far, Knicks-wise.

(the rest of the universe, not so great, but i'll take it where i can get it)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 16, 2021, 03:39:24 PM
41 wins, home court in round one, top defense all regular season, 7-3 in our last ten, 3 game win streak to end out, and we’re relatively healthy. Good fucking job, Knicks.

 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on May 16, 2021, 05:52:05 PM
Knicks had a helluva regular season.

Congrats on the 4-seed and best of luck in the tourney!
Title: Thanks Bank
Post by: carlos123 on May 16, 2021, 06:17:25 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on May 16, 2021, 05:52:05 PM
Knicks had a helluva regular season.

Congrats on the 4-seed and best of luck in the tourney!

Thank you Bank.

You’re a nice feller and a good sport, and it ain’t your fault that you’re from Boston 😏
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 16, 2021, 08:34:27 PM
Good to see PAYTON PRITCHARD out of the corner for an afternoon.

I absolutely feel Celtics can win one game this playoff season
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 16, 2021, 09:29:20 PM
Once again Knicks horrible offensively down the stretch, with no Payton
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 16, 2021, 09:50:27 PM
lol, you are kidding right? Payton is completely unplayable. Broken. At one point — right before he got yanked in the third, he was facing out toward the fans behind the basket, head down, while the play was going on, not even looking at the other four Knicks on the court who were attempting to play offense without him. While still in the game he was doing nothing but getting swatted, refusing to take four footers, coughing up the ball, getting destroyed on defense, and getting yelled at by his teammates—who despite what Chip valiantly maintains, seem pretty damn sick of him.

Thibs has got one week to get him right...er, as right as he can be, or his first five minutes of playoff (in) action will be his last for the duration.

Anyway, none of the above should sully

The Joy of This Day

*** the game, completely predictable trap type, feisty fired up Celtic third stringers, Knicks just wanting to get on with it, and they did


*** I wasn't even gonna pop on Elf — I feel sorry for him as a human being, rarely having seen anything so sad and pathetic on a pro court — but then you had to go and open up your rancid maw
Title: Chamaco's trap
Post by: carlos123 on May 16, 2021, 10:08:11 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on May 16, 2021, 09:50:27 PM

*** I wasn't even gonna pop on Elf — I feel sorry for him as a human being, rarely having seen anything so sad and pathetic on a pro court — but then you had to go and open up your rancid maw

Les, my dear doggie, Chamaco was just looking for a response, ANY RESPONSE. He just feels lonely 😩

Like with this jewel...
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on May 16, 2021, 08:34:27 PM
I absolutely feel Celtics can win one game this playoff season

...He's only trying to elicit a response from Bank.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 16, 2021, 10:49:33 PM
Sounding VERY much like the Pelicans will keep Lonzo Ball.  David Griffin stating that the jury is still out on Kira Lewis Jr.
Title: Re: Elfrid
Post by: Kam on May 16, 2021, 11:47:57 PM
Quote from: chipstern on May 16, 2021, 01:28:21 PM
Having stood up for Elfrid...

I must say that his futility is epic.

This possession is just damning evidence that he is hurting the team.

https://twitter.com/TommyBeer/status/1394080669337325569 (https://twitter.com/TommyBeer/status/1394080669337325569)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on May 17, 2021, 12:09:24 AM

Magic is what we do, hoops is how we do it….or something like that
& Thibs  is nothing short of a magician…
It was a season to behold, like nothing seen in 20 some years
Julius Randall was sublime, a wonder, a feast for the long suffering
It was a day to exhale & enjoy…
selah
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 17, 2021, 12:31:18 AM
Boston will have a tough matchup in Indiana if they don’t get by the Wiz.

With tie breakers rolling our way, we could potentially have the 19th, 21st, and 32nd picks in this draft. OTOH, It could be 20, 22 or 23, & 32 which still wouldn’t be bad.

We got to home court barely hitting the salary floor in a talent driven league.

Guys either had to hit .400 from 3 or .600 from the field to make major postseason rotation minutes.

Randle, RJ, Reggie, Alec, Rose, Taj, & Noel all qualify and make up the 7 man core. IQ, Obi, Frank, and Pelle are situational.

It’s a shame Mitch, Luca, and Elfrid won’t be able to help us this post season, but we still have enough on hand to take down the Hawks.
Title: Nervous Breakdown
Post by: chipstern on May 17, 2021, 07:18:00 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on May 16, 2021, 09:50:27 PM
lol, you are kidding right? Payton is completely unplayable. Broken. At one point — right before he got yanked in the third, he was facing out toward the fans behind the basket, head down, while the play was going on, not even looking at the other four Knicks on the court who were attempting to play offense without him. While still in the game he was doing nothing but getting swatted, refusing to take four footers, coughing up the ball, getting destroyed on defense, and getting yelled at by his teammates—who despite what Chip valiantly maintains, seem pretty damn sick of him.

Thibs has got one week to get him right...er, as right as he can be, or his first five minutes of playoff (in) action will be his last for the duration.

Anyway, none of the above should sully

The Joy of This Day

*** the game, completely predictable trap type, feisty fired up Celtic third stringers, Knicks just wanting to get on with it, and they did


*** I wasn't even gonna pop on Elf — I feel sorry for him as a human being, rarely having seen anything so sad and pathetic on a pro court — but then you had to go and open up your rancid maw

Playing Point Guard In NYC Is NOT FOR THE FAINT OF HEART. 

Followers of my ruminations will recall I am likewise supportive of many underDawgs, and given the fuitility of this franchise for the past 20 years, since Larry Johnson conclusively said OUCH and could not longer remain ambulatory, and JVG meekly bailed....well now.... 

So if TO BE A KNICK FAN IS TO SUFFER, what of a KNICK POINT GUARD. 

Watching Dennis Smith immediately post-trade, watching A healthy Elfrid Payton the first half of this season, while acknowledging their shortcomings, they had a positive impact on the team, and one could envision them being solid contributors. 

Then, through injuries and what have you, to witness the regressive eating away of their confidence, TO EXPERIENCE THEIR VERY PUBLIC NERVOUS BREAKDOWN, was especially painful, as they clearly withered from the public scutiny and general disdain. 

I would still be suprised if Thibs totally bails on Elfrid. Even on the evidence of the past several weeks, and the past several quarters.  Clearly Elfrid's confidence is shot. 

Why?

Loyalty, misplaced or otherwise. 

Our paucity of point guards. 

Other than Derrek Rose, Jared "The Subway Jared Has More Of A Chance Of Getting Rotation Minutes Than Me" Harper and the looming specter of Luca Vildoza, where are our point guards?

ANSWER?

There are none.

Alec Burks, Immanuel Quickley and Frank Ntilikina are all basically COMBO GUARDS.  They have facilitating skills, but as we have seen with French Frank, after he got a brief audition earlier in the season, the coaching staff seems to have concluded that he is more effective as an off the ball wing.  Alec and Immanuel, like everyone else on the Knicks, have bought into the ball movement, share the rock, unselfish style of play, but clearly they are more comfortable creating for themselves. 

Clearly, Rose IS capable of giving us more that 20-25 minutes a night, but there is surely a danger in leaning TOO DAMN HARD on the vet, tempting though it might be, which I am sure weighs heaveily on Thibs, Bryant and Payne. 

I mean, look at our fucking record WITH or WITHOUT Rose in the lineup?  The Rose Trade was a game changer, and the manner in which he bought into the culture and accepted his role, had positive reverberations up and down the roster. 

We were 19-8 as of April 30.

We were 5-3 in May, and DR sat out one game.

So what, 24-11. 23-11? 

JEEZ LOUIZE. 

Clearly Elfrid IS BROKEN. 

Just as clearly, THIBS has to max out the tools he has, and among the tool he has, praise the LORD, are the combined team work of Julius and RJ, who between them, tallied a combined NINE ASSISTS per game over the course of the regular season.  We've gotten four assists per game out of D-Rose, three assists out of Elfrid, and two assists per game out of IQ and Burks. 

Whereas Atlanta gets 9.4 assists per game our of Trae Bien, who also gets to the FT line 8.7 times a game and converts at a .886 clip. 

WORTH NOTING: Atlanta converted 1417 out of 1745 FTAs, for an imposing .812%.  Whereas the Knicks are 1181 out of 1506, for a .784% 

That is a function of point guard play, and a glaring team weakness which the Hawks can surely exploit in a 7 game series. 

In any event, is Elfrid Payton BROKEN?

Surely is. 

But hey, it's THE PLAYOFFS, Knicks fans, and even a broken clock is right two times a day. 
Title: Re: Elfrid
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 17, 2021, 08:12:42 AM
Quote from: Kam on May 16, 2021, 11:47:57 PM
Quote from: chipstern on May 16, 2021, 01:28:21 PM
Having stood up for Elfrid...

I must say that his futility is epic.

This possession is just damning evidence that he is hurting the team.

https://twitter.com/TommyBeer/status/1394080669337325569 (https://twitter.com/TommyBeer/status/1394080669337325569)

The Payton theory failed once again - about the 9th time in ten games - as Knicks had a nice first quarter

And Knicks look sloppy down the stretch of games - there is no denying.

Can their defense and occasional hero shot making carry us these playoffs late in games?

I think not

Wouldnt be surprised to see Hawks in 6.  Unless we change the lineup a bit.

(This would be seriously bucking a trend of course - as Knicks are 3-0 this year and 8-1 all time in playoff games vs ATL)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 17, 2021, 08:20:12 AM
Boston will have a tough matchup in Indiana if they don’t get by the Wiz.


Boston doesn't go to Indiana
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 17, 2021, 08:22:27 AM
It’s a shame Mitch, Luca, and Elfrid won’t be able to help us this post season, but we still have enough on hand to take down the Hawks.


ROBINSON Has not been ruled out
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 17, 2021, 08:27:18 AM
RE:  lineup

I will say that Burks at the point is OK by me.  I trust Thibs.

But I dont think EP will be totally buried.

Odds 50-50 as well that if we get by ATL and play round 2 Rose ends up missing game(s) and the starter that led us to 42 wins will be needed, with AB.

Happy to see some come around to the notion (stated many times by someone here very early on)  that IMAANUEL QUICKLEY IS NOT AN NBA POINT.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 17, 2021, 10:46:21 AM
So......

East

Charlotte, with Playoff LaMelo, eliminates Indiana
Wizards roll into Boston and come out with the 7 seed
Celtics squeak by Hornets for the 8

West

Lakers, despite LBJ ankle tweak - take the 7 seed over Curry and the Warriors, despite 44 from Steph
Memphis at home over Spurs
And of course Warriors get the 8 seed - on their way to a 7-gamer with Utah
Title: Re: Elfrid
Post by: Kam on May 17, 2021, 12:47:16 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on May 17, 2021, 08:12:42 AM
Quote from: Kam on May 16, 2021, 11:47:57 PM
Quote from: chipstern on May 16, 2021, 01:28:21 PM
Having stood up for Elfrid...

I must say that his futility is epic.

This possession is just damning evidence that he is hurting the team.

https://twitter.com/TommyBeer/status/1394080669337325569 (https://twitter.com/TommyBeer/status/1394080669337325569)

The Payton theory failed once again - about the 9th time in ten games - as Knicks had a nice first quarter


No idea what you’re talking about because you clearly did not watch the first quarter as Elf single-handedly kept the Boston Celtics benchwarmers in the game through turnovers and bad basketball. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 17, 2021, 12:55:15 PM
In Knicks run of 12 wins in 13 games, Elfrid Payton shooting numbers were .481 and .467.

The next games minutes were

16
17
15
13
12
12
13

Only took 23 shots those 7 games



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 17, 2021, 12:56:38 PM
No idea what you’re talking about because you clearly did not watch the first quarter as Elf single-handedly kept the Boston Celtics benchwarmers in the game through turnovers and bad basketball.


The theory was born of ONE game - DENVER loss where Jokic killed us quarter 1.

In no other game were we buried in the first quarter
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 17, 2021, 01:08:07 PM
Knicks were up 16-15 when Elfrid left the game.

And 10-9 for second half score when he left the game quarter 3.

Taking nothing from Derrick Rose.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 17, 2021, 01:46:04 PM
http://nypost.com/2021/05/16/elfrid-payton-hits-bottom-with-knicks-starting-job-in-danger/ (http://nypost.com/2021/05/16/elfrid-payton-hits-bottom-with-knicks-starting-job-in-danger/)
Title: Pretty Vacant!
Post by: lesterluv on May 17, 2021, 01:52:28 PM
lol, lol, lol,

Check yourself before you wreck yourself, kidd!

* yes, it is possible to soil yourself further

** ok, you got your reactions, happy to be one of the highlights of your day and one of your few human-to-(sub) human interactions

*** 745-725 in the 3rd quarter, the saddest thing I've ever seen on an NBA basketball court, twice, twice that mf'er is facing out at row 3 while the game goes on around him


Title: Knick Fans Know
Post by: lesterluv on May 17, 2021, 02:00:40 PM
moving on....with the regular season officially over, we take this moment to salute the Fantastic Four who projected 30+ wins for our magical squad.

Quote from: bodiddley on December 28, 2020, 03:15:03 AM
2021 Knick Win Total Projections

FWK     34
Chip     33
Les      33
Facil     32
Luee     26
BoDid   24
kiid    24
Jack Straw 23
Kam     22
Czarlos  20
BankC's 19

**ahem...ahem...ahem..
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 17, 2021, 02:10:14 PM
Bank lost his lunch money
Title: Re: Knick Fans Know
Post by: chipstern on May 17, 2021, 03:25:22 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on May 17, 2021, 02:00:40 PM
moving on....with the regular season officially over, we take this moment to salute the Fantastic Four who projected 30+ wins for our magical squad.

Quote from: bodiddley on December 28, 2020, 03:15:03 AM
2021 Knick Win Total Projections

FWK     34
Chip     33
Les      33
Facil     32
Luee     26
BoDid   24
kiid    24
Jack Straw 23
Kam     22
Czarlos  20
BankC's 19

**ahem...ahem...ahem..

I was going to say 36-36, but I chickened out. 

Meanwhile, anyone here upset because we didn't follow BoD's sensible support for Kenny Atkinson as coach, he of young player development. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 17, 2021, 04:16:13 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on May 17, 2021, 01:08:07 PM
Knicks were up 16-15 when Elfrid left the game.


It should not have been so close.  Go re-watch.
Title: Re: Knick Fans Know
Post by: Kam on May 17, 2021, 04:17:43 PM
Quote from: chipstern on May 17, 2021, 03:25:22 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on May 17, 2021, 02:00:40 PM
moving on....with the regular season officially over, we take this moment to salute the Fantastic Four who projected 30+ wins for our magical squad.

Quote from: bodiddley on December 28, 2020, 03:15:03 AM
2021 Knick Win Total Projections

FWK     34
Chip     33
Les      33
Facil     32
Luee     26
BoDid   24
kiid    24
Jack Straw 23
Kam     22
Czarlos  20
BankC's 19

**ahem...ahem...ahem..

I was going to say 36-36, but I chickened out. 

Meanwhile, anyone here upset because we didn't follow BoD's sensible support for Kenny Atkinson as coach, he of young player development.

How about Carlos saying he'd root for the next team Mike Miller coached instead.
Title: Mea Culpa
Post by: carlos123 on May 17, 2021, 05:12:17 PM
Quote from: Kamster on May 17, 2021, 04:17:43 PM
Quote from: chipstern on May 17, 2021, 03:25:22 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on May 17, 2021, 02:00:40 PM
moving on....with the regular season officially over, we take this moment to salute the Fantastic Four who projected 30+ wins for our magical squad.

Quote from: BoZizzley on December 28, 2020, 03:15:03 AM
2021 Knick Win Total Projections

FWK     34
Chip     33
Les      33
Facil     32
Luee     26
BoZizz   24
kiid    24
Jack Straw 23
Kam     22
Czarlos  20
BankC's 19

**ahem...ahem...ahem..

I was going to say 36-36, but I chickened out. 

Meanwhile, anyone here upset because we didn't follow BoD's sensible support for Kenny Atkinson as coach, he of young player development.

How about Carlos saying he'd root for the next team Mike Miller coached instead.

Mea culpa, Kamster, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.
Title: Re: Knick Fans Know
Post by: facilitatorn on May 17, 2021, 05:41:57 PM
Quote from: chipstern on May 17, 2021, 03:25:22 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on May 17, 2021, 02:00:40 PM
moving on....with the regular season officially over, we take this moment to salute the Fantastic Four who projected 30+ wins for our magical squad.

Quote from: bodiddley on December 28, 2020, 03:15:03 AM
2021 Knick Win Total Projections

FWK     34
Chip     33
Les      33
Facil     32
Luee     26
BoDid   24
kiid    24
Jack Straw 23
Kam     22
Czarlos  20
BankC's 19

**ahem...ahem...ahem..

I was going to say 36-36, but I chickened out. 

Meanwhile, anyone here upset because we didn't follow BoD's sensible support for Kenny Atkinson as coach, he of young player development.

I was expecting injuries and Covid to hit us more.

Luck or good management had the Knicks blow past my expectations.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on May 17, 2021, 06:56:22 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on May 17, 2021, 02:10:14 PM
Bank lost his lunch money

I was wrong. I took the way under

I figured young team, new coach, covid, would all be a challenge.

And covid was a challenge, just not to the knicks.

Dr. Fauci was right young kids were largely immune from its impact. 

But it was a good thing I won all-you-can-eat-supper money during the NFL post-season so losing lunch money, shouldn't impact my caloric in take.

I heard Rocco and Vinny are still chasing you to settle up.

HEH

And congrats to FWK

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 17, 2021, 08:48:49 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 17, 2021, 04:16:13 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on May 17, 2021, 01:08:07 PM
Knicks were up 16-15 when Elfrid left the game.


It should not have been so close.  Go re-watch.

I know.  We missed shots and they made a couple of threes
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 17, 2021, 08:50:06 PM
Tacko Fall vs Taj Gibson didnt help in the first
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 17, 2021, 09:43:57 PM
Just checked the game logs and Payton was way worse against the Hawks than he was against the rest of the league. I have no idea how this will effect the lineups in this series.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 18, 2021, 02:25:23 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on May 17, 2021, 08:48:49 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 17, 2021, 04:16:13 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on May 17, 2021, 01:08:07 PM
Knicks were up 16-15 when Elfrid left the game.


It should not have been so close.  Go re-watch.

I know.  We missed shots and they made a couple of threes

🚨🚨🚨 Bonk 🚨🚨🚨  Bad take alert
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 18, 2021, 11:08:11 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on May 17, 2021, 09:43:57 PM
Just checked the game logs and Payton was way worse against the Hawks than he was against the rest of the league. I have no idea how this will effect the lineups in this series.

Game 1, 6 for 18, lol, an astounding team low -11 +/- (Trae goes off on him for 31 pts/14 assists)

Game 2 Fares a little better 5-12, with 7 boards and a +3, (Quick/Rose both +8)

Game 3 Most recent and most relevant, he somehow manages a -13 in our ten point overtime win.  (Quick/Rose + 29 & +14 respectively)


*** you better do a full detach on that head, refill and reassemble, Thibs!
Title: Poor thing...
Post by: carlos123 on May 18, 2021, 12:34:12 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on May 18, 2021, 11:08:11 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on May 17, 2021, 09:43:57 PM
Just checked the game logs and Payton was way worse against the Hawks than he was against the rest of the league. I have no idea how this will effect the lineups in this series.

Game 1, 6 for 18, lol, an astounding team low -11 +/- (Trae goes off on him for 31 pts/14 assists)

Game 2 Fares a little better 5-12, with 7 boards and a +3, (Quick/Rose both +8)

Game 3 Most recent and most relevant, he somehow manages a -13 in our ten point overtime win.  (Quick/Rose + 29 & +14 respectively)


*** you better do a full detach on that head, refill and reassemble, Thibs!

I feel sorry for Payton. Some fans are just relentless.
Les, you’re putting too much pressure on poor Elfrid.
Bad doggie! 🐶
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 18, 2021, 01:41:09 PM
I am 100% rooting for his full recovery, both as an athlete and sentient human being.


*** Am I mistaken or did Elf's current descent into the abyss coincide with the signing of Luca Vildoza (soon to be renamed Bulldoza by Bo, once he returns from his vacation at a CCP re-education camp) — seems like it just blew his little head up completely.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 18, 2021, 02:39:36 PM
Some good stuff today on NBA Radio re:  Payton playing time
Title: Coach of the year
Post by: Kam on May 18, 2021, 03:29:06 PM
(https://i.redd.it/fohhoxltpwz61.jpg)
Title: Buldozza's Contract
Post by: chipstern on May 18, 2021, 03:37:56 PM
2020-21: $3,500,000   

2021-22: $3,325,000   

2022-23: $3,150,000   

2023-24: $3,150,000   

Not sure who or how the monies were allocated concerning LV's buyout with his Europleague club, if the Knicks picked it up, or LV, but his 20-21 monies are guaranteed. 

The remaining three years are ALL TEAM OPTIONS

Derrick Rose           $7,682,926   $0   $0   $0   $0
Joakim Noah           $6,431,666   $6,431,666   $0   $0   $0
Frank Ntilikina           $6,176,578   $8,326,027   $0   $0   $0
Alec Burks                   $6,000,000   $0   $0   $0   $0
Nerlens Noel           $5,000,000   $0   $0   $0   $0
Elfrid Payton           $4,767,000   $0   $0   $0   $0
Kevin Knox           $4,588,680   $5,845,978   $7,921,300   $0   $0
Reggie Bullock           $4,200,000   $0   $0   $0   $0
Terrance Ferguson   $3,944,013   $0   $0   $0   $0
Luca Vildoza           $3,500,000   $3,325,000   $3,150,000   $3,150,000   $0
Taj Gibson                   $3,283,684   $0   $0   $0   $0
Vincent Poirier           $2,619,207   $0   $0   $0   $0
Jacob Evans           $2,017,320   $0   $0   $0   $0
Omari Spellman           $1,988,280   $0   $0   $0   $0
Mitchell Robinson   $1,663,861   $1,802,057   $0   $0   $0
Wayne Ellington           $1,000,000   $0   $0   $0   $0
Theo Pinson           $802,182           $0   $0   $0   $0
Jared Harper           $520,487           $0   $0   $0   $0
John Henson           $158,907           $0   $0   $0   $0
Tyler Hall                   $25,000           $0   $0   $0   $0
Andrew White           $25,000           $0   $0   $0   $0
Myles Powell           $3,076           $0

Knicks cap management is very interesting. 

If you look at G-Leaugers, 2-way Contracts, 10-contracts, buyouts, and contracts of players we aquired in trades where we are eating their salariers and the money comes off the books this summer?

Adds up to $11,780,803 coming off the books.  That's a fair amount of cap space.

As for the expiring contracts of Derrick Rose, Alec Burks, Elfrid Payton, Reggie Bullock AND Taj Gibson? 

Adds up to $27,649,926 coming off the books.  That's a fair amount of cap space.

Total cap space opning up in 2021-2022: $39,430,729

Additionallly...

We have team options next season on Mitchell Robinson and Luca Vildoza AND Julius Randle. 

Frank Ntilikina is due for a qualifying offer in 2021-22; Kevin Knox in 2022-23. 

Our final obligation to the Phool Jackoff abortion known as Joakim Noah, which we stretched a couple of seasons back, comes off the books in the summer of 2022. 

Obviously, if we have designs on bringing back Rose, Burks, Noel, Bullock and Gibson [I'm going to make a wild guess here, and boldly predict Elfrid will not be back], redoing Mitchell's contract, extending Julius beyond the summer of 2022, it is going to cost us, and require some creative juggling of the books if we want to squirrel away monies for potential free agents in 2021-2022 and beyond. 

I'm not feeling Lonzo Ball.  I think he remains in New Orleans.  Kawhi Leonard?  Pass the peyote please.  If, God forbid, Al Horford was bought out, and could be had at vet's minimum or the MCE, even with Nerlens AND Mitchell AND Pelle, THAT would be something to look at.  Likewise if someone like Mike Conley could be had on the cheap.  I love Kyle Lowry, but given the money it would take, and what I perceive to be mutual interest on the part of the Knicks and--MINIMALLY--Rose, Burks, Noel, Bullock, some creative bookkeeping is in order to reward them for their contributions to the Knicks now and moving forward. 

With two first rounder and two second rounders [Pistons & Philly] this summer, I would expect all of those assets, and the plethora of future second rounders and the Dallas 2023 #1 pick to be in play, either to move up in the draft or to finesse a trade for assets, such as the much spoeculated notion of Memphis stretch 5-4 Jarfen Jackson Jr. 

There are a variety of intriguing connections that Jackson Jr. shares with the Knicks organization. Between the team hiring his father to become a G-League assistant coach along with his former agent at CAA, Leon Rose, being the the Knicks President of Basketball Operations, there’s plenty there.

I apologize for all of this premature speculation on the very doorstep of the PLAYOFFS, but DAWG's own speculations on how Vildoza's signing might have spooked Elfrid got me a-thinkin'



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 18, 2021, 05:36:36 PM
I'm not interested in making a big FA commitment this summer.  I would be happy with a one-year big offer to someone but I also want to bring back most of our own free agents on one-and-one deals where the 2nd year is a team option.  I want the team to retain cap flexibility to chase free agents in years to come.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 18, 2021, 05:55:19 PM
Knix need to add a pretty good defender at PG for next year if Payton decides to leave
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 18, 2021, 08:16:49 PM
Charlotte had a fun postseason. At least they still have the lottery to look forward to.
Title: Re: Coach of the year
Post by: elephant on May 18, 2021, 09:49:54 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 18, 2021, 03:29:06 PM
(https://i.redd.it/fohhoxltpwz61.jpg)

Great graphic. It actually took me a few minutes to find the Knicks.
Title: Re: Derrick Rose = Defense Rising?
Post by: bankshot1 on May 18, 2021, 11:44:44 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on May 02, 2021, 03:49:25 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on May 02, 2021, 03:08:25 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 02, 2021, 02:02:40 PM
https://www.thestrick.land/strick/why-derrick-rose-will-always-be-tom-thibodeau-favorite-point-guard (https://www.thestrick.land/strick/why-derrick-rose-will-always-be-tom-thibodeau-favorite-point-guard)

This season, per Cleaning The Glass, Rose has the best plus/minus differential on the team at +9.4 points per 100 possessions. Strangely, though, all of this value — according to the numbers — is coming on the defensive end, where the Knicks are exactly 9.4 points per 100 possessions better with Rose on the floor than off. This is by far the best mark on the roster, and more than double the defensive impact of fellow former Chicago Bull Taj Gibson, who boasts the second-best defensive differential on the team and has been a menace off the bench on that end this season.

With a reputation firmly entrenched as an offensively-minded player, this implied defensive impact is more than a little jarring.


ahhhh....statistics.

One thing there can be no doubt about - ROSE was a GREAT add.

Exec of the year?

Joe Biden

Made his shots count, made America healthy again, drained the swamp!


Thibs should be a lock for COY
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 19, 2021, 08:37:53 AM
I see Celtics have won two Exec of the Year awards (Ainge '07-'08 the latest)

Knicks have yet to win one

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_Executive_of_the_Year_Award#:~:text=Winners%20%20%20%20Season%20%20%20,Angeles%20Clippers%20%283%29%20%2030%20more%20rows%20

LEON!  LEON!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 19, 2021, 10:26:32 AM
I see Kid in the Corner got just 4 minutes last night for Boston

Will be interesting to see who they actually put on the court vs Nets

Joke going around yesterday was that Beal and Westbrook were left off the flight to Boston (thinking being that PHI is the desired foe to BKN)

Firs round series will be very interesting in both conferences.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 19, 2021, 12:18:32 PM
Like you, the playoffs will have to proceed without any Balls.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on May 19, 2021, 12:24:50 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on May 19, 2021, 12:18:32 PM
Like you, the playoffs will have to proceed without any Balls.

Oh....


SMACK
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on May 19, 2021, 12:49:08 PM
Lonzo and LaMelo, at least one of whom we've been told is a generational talent, have as many NBA playoff appearances as Lucille, which is very tough in a league that has half its teams in the playoffs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 19, 2021, 04:56:52 PM
RJ was one of 11 guys to lace em up for all 72 regular season games his team played this year. Jules was one off that at 71.
Title: New Kid In Town
Post by: chipstern on May 20, 2021, 11:40:07 AM
The Knicks’ newly signed combo guard Luca Vildoza is flying into New York Friday and will wear the number of an old Knicks icon when he arrives, according to a Spanish-language Twitter account run by his press team. Vildoza is slated to don “17,’’ the number of former Knicks PG Jeremy Lin.

Vildoza, 25, who played for Baskonia of the Spanish League, signed a four-year, $13.6 million deal earlier this month. The final three years aren’t guaranteed. Vildoza’s second season becomes guaranteed the day after the season opener, The Post reported. He will make $3.5 million this season – minus his Spanish buyout. The signing costs the Knicks players a bonus of $200,000 because the team no longer is under the salary-cap minimum. – via Marc Berman @ New York Post
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on May 20, 2021, 04:30:10 PM
Mcmillan's schtick is pathetic here:

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/31478721/atlanta-hawks-interim-coach-nate-mcmillan-fined-25000-saying-nba-wants-new-york-knicks-playoffs (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/31478721/atlanta-hawks-interim-coach-nate-mcmillan-fined-25000-saying-nba-wants-new-york-knicks-playoffs)

Yeah, the Knicks have a history of getting strong consideration (wink wink) from the league, and so, you know, the calls won't be going Atlanta's way.

Shut the fuck up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 20, 2021, 04:51:10 PM
Playoffs are the season for working the refs. Jackson v. Riley v. Daly was the peak for me. Nice to be in that kind of matchup between Nate and Thibs, two competitive old hands.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 20, 2021, 06:06:53 PM
Quote from: elephant on May 20, 2021, 04:30:10 PM
Mcmillan's schtick is pathetic here:

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/31478721/atlanta-hawks-interim-coach-nate-mcmillan-fined-25000-saying-nba-wants-new-york-knicks-playoffs (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/31478721/atlanta-hawks-interim-coach-nate-mcmillan-fined-25000-saying-nba-wants-new-york-knicks-playoffs)

Yeah, the Knicks have a history of getting strong consideration (wink wink) from the league, and so, you know, the calls won't be going Atlanta's way.

Shut the fuck up.

It's weak and nonsensical.  McMillan is implying the NBA is responsible for the Knicks being in the playoffs which makes no sense at all.  This isn't a play-in game that the Knicks are lucky to be in because a few calls went our way at the end of the year.  Knicks have won 16 of their last 20 games and are the 4th seed.  No help was needed from the NBA.   If anything this can backfire on McMillan as Thibs can use it as motivation that Atlanta thinks the NBA made this seeding possible.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 20, 2021, 07:39:12 PM
Congrats to D ROSE

Finalist for NBA 6th Man of the Year award.

Ingles
Clarkson
Rose

MVP

Jokic
Embiid
Curry

Rookie

Haliburton
Edwards
Ball
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 21, 2021, 09:10:37 AM
Got 3 of my 4 in.  Awaiting Golden State's pasting of Memphis tonight

Yeah, it's going with chalk, I know. 

Good to see Russ and his mates headed to Philly, where they preferred to go.  I think that series could go 6.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 21, 2021, 09:15:20 AM
Incredible efficiency by Wiz offfense

Just 2 players of the 12 had less points than shots attempted.

Starters

Neto - 14 on 8 shots
Rui Hach - 18 on 8
Len/Gafford - 19 on 10
Westbrook - 18 on 13
Beal -  25 on 17

https://sports.yahoo.com/nba/indiana-pacers-washington-wizards-2021052027/
Title: Dancing With The Girl That Brung Ya
Post by: chipstern on May 21, 2021, 01:01:03 PM
RJ Barrett gave his full endorsement to Payton.

“Great locker-room guy, everybody loves EP,” Barrett said. “He goes out there, even if he’s struggling offensively, and still plays great defense. Everybody struggles. We’re always there to pick him up, and he’s gonna pick us up. He’s picked me up when I’m struggling. He’s part of our team and we love having him.”

We may see more of French Frank in match-ups with Trae Young.  We may see any number of rotational moves involving Rose and Quickley and Burks.  Elfrid's minutes may indeed be situational, based on which way the wind is blowing. 

But THIBS is not going to toss him under the bus. Look for him to start both halves, minimally. 

Get over it Knicks fans. 

Fifteen As ONE. 

We're HERE, New York. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on May 21, 2021, 01:06:07 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on May 20, 2021, 04:51:10 PM
Playoffs are the season for working the refs. Jackson v. Riley v. Daly was the peak for me. Nice to be in that kind of matchup between Nate and Thibs, two competitive old hands.

If the league is committed to favoring the Knicks and New York in the playoffs, let's jst say they have NOT done a bang up job these past twenty years. 

As a coach Phil Jackson was masterful at working the refs, and getting into the heads of the opposing teams and coaches. 

Thing is, THIBS will just use that as motivation. 

The best thing about being the fourth seed, is it bought the Knicks some breathing space to exhale, and a week of ferocious practices. 

Atlanta is fully healthy and has a number of formidable weapons, besides Young and Capella, such as DeAndre Hunter, who could surely give Reggie Bullock something to think about, and of course, BoD heart throb, Bogdonavich.  But you can bet the ranch that Trae Young is going to be loaded to bear. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 21, 2021, 01:36:56 PM
...or even FOR bear.  Heh.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on May 21, 2021, 03:55:03 PM
About time. Breathless anticipation!
Title: Chamaco’s humor
Post by: carlos123 on May 21, 2021, 05:43:36 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on May 21, 2021, 01:36:56 PM
...or even FOR bear.  Heh.

That supposed to be a joke? 🥸
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 21, 2021, 07:15:10 PM
Thibs will make sure that Payton will get a lot of help defending Trae Young.  During the three regular season games vs. Atlanta Payton was terrible at guarding Trae.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E1xY7taXoAIkl8y?format=jpg&name=large)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 21, 2021, 07:55:22 PM
Finally - some intelligent life in here

Good post, Kam.

(but Thibs LIKES Payton's D, Young or no Young)

PS2 - when Rose guards Young he doesnt GUARD him - mostly passing him off.  Keep an eye out and confirm for yourself
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 22, 2021, 08:54:07 AM
Let's hear it for the white guy - the Dukie

GRAYSON ALLEN, baby.

Shooters gonna shoot
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 22, 2021, 08:54:44 AM
Steph gave up the ball.

Ugh.
Title: The Other Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on May 23, 2021, 01:42:14 AM
How about the other Knicks!

Both Dallas and Portland won.

Go Knicks!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 23, 2021, 11:56:00 AM
Personnel move to watch is not Elf Payton but OBI TOPPIN, who may lose all or most of his minutes to TAJ GIBSON
Title: Seaparatred At Birth: Russell Westbrook & Bodie [From THE WIRE]
Post by: chipstern on May 23, 2021, 02:46:34 PM
(https://epmgaa.media.clients.ellingtoncms.com/img/photos/2020/12/10/Russell_Westbrook_t580.jpg?8f1b5874916776826eb17d7e67de7278c987ca33)

(https://scalar.usc.edu/works/boostlit/media/The_Wire_Bodie.jpg)
Title: No? BoD?
Post by: chipstern on May 23, 2021, 03:10:07 PM
(https://img.discogs.com/__HnEf9TMS_Qeh2TJ9dOWdFkUVQ=/fit-in/593x591/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-2997226-1386637222-9175.jpeg.jpg)
Title: Dawgin' Around
Post by: chipstern on May 23, 2021, 03:13:18 PM
(http://wvau.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/the_stooges-i_wanna_be_your_dog_s.jpg)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/GJQ6rFf_4KY-NiKaim0CSV5sV-XmXwanL98FjNTWLhcz41eqRGx4Tmh9lGPVxzdrgMaNlO62VzeY_jQ92u72ICER89QWPESS6raqiAOwQ3KpRGkXBgJpRiAqmxIWMYRJMYTcBWjpCpiu5cw)
Title: Kam Is Wry, Kam On Rye
Post by: chipstern on May 23, 2021, 03:14:43 PM
(https://i.redd.it/cpykoqjitpn41.jpg)
Title: MISHPACHAH Or Mother Pucka?
Post by: chipstern on May 23, 2021, 03:19:10 PM
(https://my-hebrew-name.com/images/carlos.gif)
Title: Nimble Or Simple Facil?
Post by: chipstern on May 23, 2021, 03:21:05 PM
(https://cdn.dribbble.com/users/2189820/screenshots/6916647/fecile_logo.jpg)
Title: Man Coulter--Rated X For Excrutiatingly _________
Post by: chipstern on May 23, 2021, 03:23:06 PM
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81rFoOWt36L._SS500_.jpg)
Title: From Elephant To Ella Fitzgerald
Post by: chipstern on May 23, 2021, 03:26:23 PM
(https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1347430155l/378532.jpg)

(https://cdn2.jazztimes.com/2017/12/Ella_opener-1-629x800.jpg)
Title: Chip's Ahoy
Post by: chipstern on May 23, 2021, 03:31:15 PM
(https://positive-feedback.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Chip_Stern_portrait_proof_sheet.jpg)
Title: We [ALL] Here NEW YORK
Post by: chipstern on May 23, 2021, 03:34:34 PM
(https://i.pinimg.com/236x/33/a3/f3/33a3f35cbec8838a1097d06466e70277--fes.jpg)

(https://sportige.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Knicks-Championship-Ring.jpg)

Let The GAMES Begin

(https://secure.franklintheatre.com/images/user/ft_11874/Ben%20Hur%20MAIN.jpg)
Title: Getting My TV Eye Ready
Post by: lesterluv on May 23, 2021, 04:10:33 PM
Quote from: chipstern on May 23, 2021, 03:13:18 PM
(http://wvau.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/the_stooges-i_wanna_be_your_dog_s.jpg)

The dawg's top three rock records of all time: 1. Fun House 2. The Stooges 3. Raw Power
*** the order changes monthly, but none ever drop to fourth.
*****https://youtu.be/XR2rl_OVcl4
 (https://youtu.be/XR2rl_OVcl4)
So ready for this evening......................Let's go!
Title: My favorite doggie
Post by: carlos123 on May 23, 2021, 05:10:57 PM
(https://media.tenor.com/images/f45dc3deb54ae86b9276bd0aaa790972/tenor.gif)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3d8O7dTUPPCt_Ur-hpg0YItTBClxn3p4z1odiBw698cvHfDu14_ovJkNlfFl6R-pl2iue8Kosm4U3__ZbvB9R6bnnHd7PalOxgbx8MQUJjp127uacmsny2jsvf247C6dwxs32hjTBIpxIkDYoWnxCch=w595-h757-no?authuser=0)
Title: My favorite king
Post by: carlos123 on May 23, 2021, 05:12:36 PM
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3eR7JC9xsEF0unwhb57wxE0Kw1uaJR_MGuEpq8PTkGkwYLaX2NlFBKeMhidoeaI1xYQGnBLR5iKpXgu_mAmdSAHySa03dV0v0e1Mbpod0OLA3h0koqthLR4sgk0b8isYn6C4YpMAnoOFXAOTEz02i3p=w598-h411-no?authuser=0)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 23, 2021, 07:01:12 PM
Elfrid starts - to rousing applause
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 23, 2021, 07:58:30 PM
With Julius out of sorts, I will take that first half.

Rookies stepped up.  Frank with a nice late D possession.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 23, 2021, 09:22:46 PM
Frank - CRISP.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 23, 2021, 09:25:34 PM
Burks inbounded when he should have been the shooter
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 23, 2021, 09:42:32 PM
That was disappointing.

At least our rookies look playoff ready.

They had good luck and we had breakdowns that need to be corrected ASAP.

Time to tighten it up and win the rest of the damn games.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on May 23, 2021, 09:52:01 PM
Damn. This shit is borderline painful.

(maybe not so borderline)

We've won plenty of games when Randall was off — this wouldn't be one of them. That Bogdonovic 3 with a minute left was a killer...and a bit of good fortune. The defense was intense and the ball just managed to reach his fingers a moment before the 24 sec clock expired. And yeah, it was odd in the final .9 that Burks was throwing the ball out. I wasn't sure why Taj was in there either. Just meant one more guy that didn't really have to be covered.

BTW. Touch fouls are tedious. I know we get our share too, but sometimes the absurdity of it is striking.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on May 23, 2021, 10:06:00 PM
And o shit, putting Frank in with 9 seconds left to guard Trea when the dude hadn't been given a second of game time before that?

Come on, man.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 23, 2021, 10:12:04 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on May 23, 2021, 07:01:12 PM
Elfrid starts - to rousing applause

lol, you really do continue setting records for stupidest fuck ever, lol

Elf was unplayable...as expected...and barely played as expected and crowd was thrilled when he departed as expected!


*** the game was tough, AS EXPECTED, they're a damn good team, AS EXPECTED —Julius will have to do better than that, and I expect he will.

**** putting in Frank to guard Trae on the last play, was EXPECTED, AND a good move, and I EXPECT we will see more of that earlier in the future.


****** this was may favorite of about 100 howlers on twitter tonight: saw Elfrid Payton 1 time at jazz fest told em i have hoop dreams. he said if you keep workin hard you can be like me. that was the last time i ever picked up a basketball why tf would i wanna be like Elfrid Payton
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 23, 2021, 10:16:14 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on May 23, 2021, 11:56:00 AM
Personnel move to watch is not Elf Payton but OBI TOPPIN, who may lose all or most of his minutes to TAJ GIBSON

Completely wrong take, lol, as expected :)
Title: Poor Chamaco
Post by: carlos123 on May 23, 2021, 10:17:23 PM
Quote from: Les on May 23, 2021, 10:12:04 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on May 23, 2021, 07:01:12 PM
Elfrid starts - to rousing applause

lol, you really do continue setting records for stupidest fuck ever, lol

Elf was unplayable...as expected...and barely played as expected!


*** the game was tough, AS EXPECTED, they're a damn good team, AS EXPECTED —Julius will have to do better than that, and I expect he will.

**** putting in Frank to guard Trae on the last play, was EXPECTED, AND a good move, and I EXPECT we will see more of that earlier in the future.

Les, you're abusing poor Chamaco...

I know, I know, it's hard to resist, so easy, so tempting... I confess I do it too.

Damn, this loss was TOUGH!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on May 23, 2021, 10:31:10 PM
Saul Goodman
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on May 23, 2021, 10:44:34 PM
No panic.

Not the best but some good signs.

When Bogdanovic hit that 3 on a good defensive sequence, I agree with Barkley on at least this that we had the game.

This is going to be a series.

Randle will come good, but we know he's a bit sensitive and I almost expected him to have a bad game 1 with all the hype.

I was VERY wary of those going to how he obliterated the Hawks as a sure fire reason for our advantage in the series.

Defense was not the best and they came to play, especially Trae.

Burks, IQ and DRose were very impressive.

Obi and RJ also showed me reason for hope.

Noel had some ups and way more downs than he has and Bullock I feel will be better as well. Those two on might have been more key than Randle off.

Shame Mitch is not available.

Watch us win the next 2 or 3 games.

Thibs was also not his best either.

We get production out of Julius and this series is massively different.

Hooolld tight.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on May 23, 2021, 10:46:49 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on May 23, 2021, 10:12:04 PM

**** putting in Frank to guard Trae on the last play, was EXPECTED, AND a good move, and I EXPECT we will see more of that earlier in the future.

Um. No. It was demonstrably not a good idea. He juked Frank easily. Twice.

Frank is a good defender. Not a goddamn magician. He was on the bench the whole game. Coming in cold in that spot, against one of the most twisty motherfuckers in the NBA, he's going to lose that match-up more times than not.

My beef is with Thibs. I know it's tough with the (cough, cough) Payton issue, but get Frank in the goddamn game — he's proven he can guard Tre well. Find room for him. Then if you want him back in the game for the last 9 secs, he's more ready for the moment.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 23, 2021, 11:02:47 PM
Burks, IQ and DRose were very impressive.


Stopppp...

Free agent PG arriving
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 23, 2021, 11:12:08 PM
Not this series, but we can count on Burks, Rose, and IQ to hang with or outplay Atlanta’s backcourt as the series continues. We need to play pinball with Young wherever possible on both ends all game.

Noel seems like he’s gonna struggle this series. I wouldn’t mind seeing Pelle get a crack at some point.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on May 23, 2021, 11:46:01 PM
Quote from: elephant on May 23, 2021, 10:46:49 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on May 23, 2021, 10:12:04 PM

**** putting in Frank to guard Trae on the last play, was EXPECTED, AND a good move, and I EXPECT we will see more of that earlier in the future.

Um. No. It was demonstrably not a good idea. He juked Frank easily. Twice.

Frank is a good defender. Not a goddamn magician. He was on the bench the whole game. Coming in cold in that spot, against one of the most twisty motherfuckers in the NBA, he's going to lose that match-up more times than not.

My beef is with Thibs. I know it's tough with the (cough, cough) Payton issue, but get Frank in the goddamn game — he's proven he can guard Tre well. Find room for him. Then if you want him back in the game for the last 9 secs, he's more ready for the moment.

Exactly. Trae went off for 30 long before Frank got that call.

Payton *is* the elephant in the room.  This pattern of going down 10-15 points to start games is ludicrous.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on May 23, 2021, 11:49:26 PM
Quote from: elephant on May 23, 2021, 10:06:00 PM
And o shit, putting Frank in with 9 seconds left to guard Trea when the dude hadn't been given a second of game time before that?

Come on, man.

That was cold but Frankie did close the half, maybe 15 seconds.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on May 24, 2021, 12:42:32 AM
O shit, you're right. Thanks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on May 24, 2021, 07:10:45 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on May 23, 2021, 11:02:47 PM
Burks, IQ and DRose were very impressive.


Stopppp...

Free agent PG arriving

Notice I didn’t mention Elf.

We 100% need him replaced stat

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 24, 2021, 10:46:23 AM
Payton *is* the elephant in the room.  This pattern of going down 10-15 points to start games is ludicrous.


Knicks trailed 6-5 when Payton left the game.  It was just the DEN game - of last ten - that saw us get blistered early and trail big after 1.
Title: The Forum Ass Clown Lets Loose Another Anal Emission From the Mouth
Post by: lesterluv on May 24, 2021, 10:47:17 AM
Frank's been playing D his whole life.
He has surely spent the last week focused on nothing but Trae's moves.
He's come in many times late in the season for similar plays or sequences.
And generally acquitted himself well.
This ain't no thing. Then Trae scored. That's what he does. He's their star. Time to see our star.

Would we have liked to see more of Frank earlier, to try and slow Trae down, yes. But nothing wrong with the EOG move.

What is a thing is Elf's continued presence in the lineup.
We came out last night with four basketball players, not five.
Only two people in the world want to see Elf continue to start, the forum Ass-Clown and Elf's Mom, and by now, even Elf's Mom would probably like to end the suffering and appreciate a mercy-benching.

**(Possibly Bo-D would too, but nobody knows since he's at a silent retreat for those still lamenting the Obi Toppin pick - Not Me, Always Liked, Like More Every Day)

**** Odds are we don't get the mercy-benching, but the rope gets further shortened from 3 min to 1 1/2 min, I mean he's got to come out and give us FIVE FUCKING MINUTES OF DECENT PLAY SOMETIME, RIGHT? Surely that's what Thibs is betting.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 24, 2021, 10:49:20 AM
Quote from: PrezIke on May 24, 2021, 07:10:45 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on May 23, 2021, 11:02:47 PM
Burks, IQ and DRose were very impressive.


Stopppp...

Free agent PG arriving

Notice I didn’t mention Elf.

We 100% need him replaced stat

Much of PG look for Knicks next year will depend on what Rose wants to do.

Do we need a 35 minute guy or more like 20-22?  A rock star or a solid soldier?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 24, 2021, 11:10:57 AM
I'd be fine with starting Frank at the PG if its the same design - 4-5 minute stretch and take the rest of the half off.  If he does well he gets more minutes.

If Thibs decides to see what Elfrid can do on Young, better.

Best players yesterday by BOX +/- were Burks, Gibson, Toppin and Noel

I'd say we really missed NN but Taj made a nice showing.

Game came down to having better late possessions - and mostly, from Knicks end - to Julius being ineffective.

Randle eating his words a bit.  MSG showed the interview where he said - "if they double and triple team me I find the open man and my teammates knock down shots.  If they don't, well....good luck."
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 24, 2021, 12:55:36 PM
Young officially debuted his first signature shoe with the Three Stripes, the Adidas Trae Young 1, for his first-ever NBA Playoff game yesterday. As of now, the shoe is scheduled to hit shelves in the fall but specific release details have yet to be announced by the brand. – via Riley Jones @ Sole Collector
Title: Thoughts [And Prayers]
Post by: chipstern on May 24, 2021, 01:05:01 PM
Helluva Game. 

Some of my friends are apoplectic. 

We lost by ONE FUCKING BASKET to a really good team.  In the opening gambit of chess masters, Nate one upped Thibs. 

Julius sucked?  Seriously?  The Hawks had a game plan, and they played it to perfection.  They put some big bods on Julius and did not allow him to get into any sort of rhythm. 

Trae.  F-U?  Really Knicks fans?  F-U?  FUCK YOU, KNICKS FANS.  Haven't you motherfuckers learned ANYTHING from the past.  Reggie?  Let sleeping dogs lie, motherfuckers. 

And what was Thibs' game plan for Trae?  Fifteen seconds of Frank at the end of each half.  Come off the bench ice cold and stop a master penetrator?  We denied him the long range game [1-3 from trey], but he was unstoppable and FAR MORE DENAGEROUS off of his P&R penetrations breaking down our D [10 assists, Bogdonavich 4-9 from trey], his floaters, and late in the game he got to the FT line at will [9-9].  My thoughts on his final drive past Frank?  Where was the double?  Should have made him give up the ball, force someone else to beat us. 

Everyone wants to put it on Julius?  Or obsess over the snakebit Mister Payton? 

ALL OF OUR starters had a rough night, not just Julius. 

Reggie and RJ [who had his customary second half moments] were 9-24 and a combined 1-11 from three. 

Our starting PF and center got 15 boards and two blocks.  Capella and Collins combined for 20 and 4 blocks. 

Not nit picking, but in a game decided on the last possession, every little tidbit counts.  I mean, if we had been pummelled, I too might be crying real tears.  But people Knicks fans who thought this was a coronation?  HELLO, these are the playoffs, folks. 

You want to nit pick?  Want to assign blame? 

I don't.  But activating the rear view mirror? 

Thibs tossing Frank into the fray ice cold.  

And with 0.9 seconds remaining, Burks inbounding?  Our most clutch player of the night?  Inbounding to Julius no less for the final shot, and not, oh, say IQ with a three-point heave from the parking lot? 

But hey, over and done with.  Nate schooled Thibs, and the Garden faithful inspired the home town boys, but fired up the ofays ALL THE MORE.  Motherfuckers. 

PS: Random reflections.  Was texting back and forth with Miras The Merciless last night, and needless to say, he took it hard.  Compared Payton to 1982-83 PG Edmund Sherrod [https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/sheroed01.html (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/sheroed01.html)] for Biblical ineffectiveness.  I drew a blank.  "And you call yourself a Knicks fan."  I had, in fact, returned to NYC from upstate NY in 1976, a two year old daughter in tow, hustling for work and launching my journey as a freelance musical journalist.  So my focus had shifted, and in fact, I did not really reconnect with the Knicks and competitigve sports until my family relocated to Washington Heights in the spring of 1984, when we had that epic 7 game series against the Celtics, in which neither team could win on the others' home court.   I remember thinking at the time, that is was pracically an honor to have Larry Bird kick your ass. 

PPS: Ditto, Bernard King.  That is to say, vis a vis Bird and Reggie and Alonzo and Trae, RESPECT YOUR OPPONENTS.  Again, referencing my brother Miras, who has been gracious enough to treat me to dinner and a Knicks game a couple of times over the years [as did MisterEarl]....well, shortly after the Melo trade, we took in a Celtic game at the Garden.  Amare and Melo were clicking on all cylinders, and we were up by double figures at half time. Maybe as many as 25 if the dubious dust of memories do not betray me.  Ayyway, you know what happens next.  The Celtics came back, led by Paul Pierce, who just willed them back into the game.  It was impressive, in a painful, to be a Knicks fan is to suffer kind of way.  Anyway, the inevitability of what was happenning swept over me, and I was heard to utter, in a spiritual gesture of respect, "May, you've just got to love that Paul Pierce."  Miras' carotid attery exploded.  "I HATE THAT COCKSUCKER."  Er, point taken.  Perhaps RESPECT would've been a better call.  As in, brining us to the present, RESPECT TRAE YOUNG.  A worthy adversary. 

(https://uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/trae-shush.jpg?w=1024)

PPPS: See you on Wednesday, Trae.  And bring your little black box. 
Title: Oh, by the way....
Post by: chipstern on May 24, 2021, 01:13:43 PM
As per Julius having a rough night? 

Anthony Davis, no less, was 5-16 with 7 boardsi in the Lakers' loss to the Suns, whereas Ayton was 10-11 with 16 boards.   

These are THE PLAYOFFS, folks. 

Pawn to knight's rook.  YOUR MOVE. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 24, 2021, 02:07:05 PM
NBA Radio guys killing Thibs on his use of Frank.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 24, 2021, 02:47:30 PM
Craig Carton with a good bit on FAN.

Stating how New York sports fans last night got what they haven't had in a  while -

a good VILLIAN.

(By the way, how's that Trae/Doncic decision looking now for ATL?)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on May 24, 2021, 03:42:14 PM
HEH

Spike has to harass Trae to give the Garden a '90s good old days vibe

Trae "Reggied" the Knicks last night
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on May 24, 2021, 04:58:54 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on May 24, 2021, 03:42:14 PM
HEH

Spike has to harass Trae to give the Garden a '90s good old days vibe

Trae "Reggied" the Knicks last night

Surely did.

And we had it coming. 

The vibe was electrifying, but any real competitor is going to double down on that abusive element, which is really BUSH, and I don't mean George.  I know this is heretical to say, but I always respected the shit out of  Reggie getting in Spike's face, and miming the choke sign, just like I respect Trae for shushing the Garden faithful.  Saying fuck you to a competitor like Trae Bien, on his first trip to the playoffs, in a gonzo Garden?  Like, DUH.  Know what Lou Williams told him on that penultimate possession?  "Don't pass the ball."  BINGO. 

PS: Worth noting, as apoplectic as some Knicks fans and media types are getting, we lost by ONE FUCKING BASKET.  Lost by one basket to the Suns, too, right, and they handled the Lakers pretty nicely yesterday.  Obviously, AD and LeB are hurting, but hey, IT BE'S THAT WAY.  Predators & Prey.  Hell, we handled Memphis and Memphis took it to the Jazz no less, though without Donavan Mitchell. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on May 24, 2021, 05:52:57 PM
f Randle is off he should be more of a playmaker.
When we started playing reasonably well earlier in the season and he would have off games he'd try too hard like he did last night.

We had that tough stretch in March losing 5 out of 6 games. the last was against the C's.

There were increasing cries for him to be less selfish and how we can't win if he's off.

The next game against the Grizz he was off but he was more of a playmaker. t

Took only 2 3's and even though he wasn't on we won that night and went on to win 9 in a row.

The triple doubles and 5+ assist totals showed more and it opened up the options and that was BEFORE D Rose was able to play and really contribute.

I feel he has to be that player again or teams lock him down and I think he forces things a bit too much which is where we get into trouble.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on May 24, 2021, 08:24:55 PM
Quote from: chipstern on May 24, 2021, 04:58:54 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on May 24, 2021, 03:42:14 PM
HEH

Spike has to harass Trae to give the Garden a '90s good old days vibe

Trae "Reggied" the Knicks last night

Surely did.

And we had it coming. 

The vibe was electrifying, but any real competitor is going to double down on that abusive element, which is really BUSH, and I don't mean George.  I know this is heretical to say, but I always respected the shit out of  Reggie getting in Spike's face, and miming the choke sign, just like I respect Trae for shushing the Garden faithful.  Saying fuck you to a competitor like Trae Bien, on his first trip to the playoffs, in a gonzo Garden?  Like, DUH.  .
I think Spike's claim as the World's Greatest Knicks Fan expired around the same time the Stones lost their title as World's Greatest Rock 'n' Roll Band. Spike's fanaticism has become a boring self-parody and a trolling for publicity and I'd be fine with TNT, ESPN, and ABC not putting him on camera anymore.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on May 24, 2021, 09:16:45 PM
I think Spike has a place in the NYC sports fantheon

his work both on court mocking Reggie, and in film, mocking Larry puts him in the Mt Rushmore of NY celebrity fandom

Spike (Knicks) Seinfeld (Mets) Fireman Ed (Jets) Rudy G (Yankees) 

honorary mentions

Billy Crystal

Woody Allen
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 24, 2021, 09:49:24 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on May 24, 2021, 05:52:57 PM
f Randle is off he should be more of a playmaker.
When we started playing reasonably well earlier in the season and he would have off games he'd try too hard like he did last night.

We had that tough stretch in March losing 5 out of 6 games. the last was against the C's.

There were increasing cries for him to be less selfish and how we can't win if he's off.

The next game against the Grizz he was off but he was more of a playmaker. t

Took only 2 3's and even though he wasn't on we won that night and went on to win 9 in a row.

The triple doubles and 5+ assist totals showed more and it opened up the options and that was BEFORE D Rose was able to play and really contribute.

I feel he has to be that player again or teams lock him down and I think he forces things a bit too much which is where we get into trouble.

Dude - Nate didnt double Randle

No "playmaking" to be had
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 24, 2021, 11:57:04 PM
Randle rolled away from doubles toward the baseline for tough shots. Some nights when he does that he hits the bulk of them. In game one, not so much.

Hope he takes it into the teeth and quickly sprays it out going forward.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 25, 2021, 12:26:48 PM
Hate to say..

Having given them the upper hand we could go down in 4/5.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on May 25, 2021, 12:42:09 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on May 24, 2021, 09:49:24 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on May 24, 2021, 05:52:57 PM
f Randle is off he should be more of a playmaker.
When we started playing reasonably well earlier in the season and he would have off games he'd try too hard like he did last night.

We had that tough stretch in March losing 5 out of 6 games. the last was against the C's.

There were increasing cries for him to be less selfish and how we can't win if he's off.

The next game against the Grizz he was off but he was more of a playmaker. t

Took only 2 3's and even though he wasn't on we won that night and went on to win 9 in a row.

The triple doubles and 5+ assist totals showed more and it opened up the options and that was BEFORE D Rose was able to play and really contribute.

I feel he has to be that player again or teams lock him down and I think he forces things a bit too much which is where we get into trouble.

Dude - Nate didnt double Randle

No "playmaking" to be had

You are correct, so maybe I should re-phrase as just whenever he is struggling.

That can be against TOUGH defending teams (Philly's bigs totally took him out of his game as I recall and very much dread a matchup with them as a result)

Against the Hawks in game 1 while he wasn't being doubled and shot selection was not SO far outside of himself, he seemed like a sec or mili-second tentative.

If his shot is not falling what makes sense?

Embrace his inner John Starks or utilize his vision and ball handling to create better looks for his teammates?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on May 25, 2021, 02:34:42 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on May 25, 2021, 12:26:48 PM
Hate to say..

Having given them the upper hand we could go down in 4/5.

Hawks are good. I didn't want to play them, even after the sweep in the season. They're dangerous.

But we're tougher. And we have our own range of offensive threats. I don't see us losing the first round.

Meanwhile, reports of Trae as the new Reggie are wildly premature — it was the first game of the first round, for fuckssake.
Title: Re: From Elephant To Ella Fitzgerald
Post by: elephant on May 25, 2021, 02:36:01 PM
Quote from: chipstern on May 23, 2021, 03:26:23 PM
(https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1347430155l/378532.jpg)

(https://cdn2.jazztimes.com/2017/12/Ella_opener-1-629x800.jpg)

BTW, ain't that picture of Ella beautiful?
Title: Ella Font
Post by: chipstern on May 25, 2021, 03:18:10 PM
YUP
Title: FUCKING IDIOT
Post by: chipstern on May 25, 2021, 04:12:41 PM
I did not think it was POSSIBLE that I could loathe lame duck/shame schmuck NYC Mayor Shrill DiBlasio any more. 

I just saw THIS astonishing quote from our reigning Puddle Of Piss on my cellular device, doing his level best to JUNX THE KNICKS. 

“This is very serious, want to get this message to Trae Young on behalf of the people for New York City and anybody that cares about playing basketball the right way: Stop hunting for fouls, Trae,” de Blasio said.

This bloviating blowhole of balderdash, not content to have shot himself in the foot, reloaded and aimed directly at his flaccid penis. 

"That’s not basketball.”

PS: Worth pointing out, no offense to Brother Bankshot or Red Sox Nation, that this Towering Babble Of Fake Progressivism an avowed Boston baseball fan. 

PPS: My GOD.  This Irredeemable IDIOT just put the fucking hex on our Knicks. 

1.   Karl Malone*   9787
2.   Moses Malone*   9018
3.   Kobe Bryant*   8378
4.   Oscar Robertson*   7694
5.   LeBron James   7582
6.   Michael Jordan*   7327
7.   Dirk Nowitzki   7240
8.   Jerry West*   7160
9.   Paul Pierce*   6918
10.   Adrian Dantley*   6832
11.   Dolph Schayes*   6712
    Kareem Abdul-Jabbar*   6712
13.   Dan Issel*   6591
14.   James Harden   6574
15.   Allen Iverson*   6375
16.   Charles Barkley*   6349
17.   Julius Erving*   6256
18.   Reggie Miller*   6237
19.   Carmelo Anthony   6188
20.   Bob Pettit*  6182

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jerrya on May 25, 2021, 04:54:23 PM
Lets see what Thibs can come up with for game 2.  One thing for sure, he has to do something different to stop Trey...we can't let him beat us again.  Double teams, take away the paint and force him to make 3's, box and 1, or combinations of all and more, but they must over compensate and take him out of the game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on May 25, 2021, 06:51:17 PM
At the time, I really thought Lou Williams made a critical difference too. We were making our run, up by 7 near the end of the 3rd quarter, people going crazy in the stands, Trae leaves the game.

And then Lou went to work. Basket after basket. Kept us from pulling away and was more or less unstoppable till Trae went back in a few minutes into the 4th.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on May 25, 2021, 07:02:30 PM
Quote
PS: Worth pointing out, no offense to Brother Bankshot or Red Sox Nation, that this Towering Babble Of Fake Progressivism an avowed Boston baseball fan. 

Chip

You guys elected him.

And Bloomie too-and he was a closet Sox fan.

And Rudy, do we really want to go there? Rudy's just a closet-case Yankee fascist!

(http://5af17eb319ee8618008b49ac)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 25, 2021, 08:50:19 PM
Quote from: chipstern on May 24, 2021, 04:58:54 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on May 24, 2021, 03:42:14 PM
HEH

Spike has to harass Trae to give the Garden a '90s good old days vibe

Trae "Reggied" the Knicks last night

Surely did.

And we had it coming. 


What in holy hell does that mean?
Title: silly-sillier-silliest?
Post by: carlos123 on May 25, 2021, 10:39:53 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on May 25, 2021, 08:50:19 PM
Quote from: chipstern on May 24, 2021, 04:58:54 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on May 24, 2021, 03:42:14 PM
HEH

Spike has to harass Trae to give the Garden a '90s good old days vibe

Trae "Reggied" the Knicks last night

Surely did.

And we had it coming. 


Q-What in holy hell does that mean?

A-Too silly a question to deserve an answer.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on May 26, 2021, 08:43:17 PM
Is Randle being doubled tonight, kid?

It doesn't matter if it's a double or delayed double.

What we're seeing matters is having a hard time against good defensive situations now.

He's reverting back to the season before.

Confidence in the toilet.

Please don't let him be another Nick Anderson. I am honestly worried about that.

He's a great guy and persevered to get to where he is, but he has to get out of this fast.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 26, 2021, 08:46:28 PM
Fu' 'gly Knicks...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 26, 2021, 08:47:43 PM
It's OK, Knick fans - Chip says we had it coming
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on May 26, 2021, 09:00:48 PM
Is it hyperbole to say:

This half is our entire season and maybe more.

That's how big it feels.

If Randle doesn't do better or we don't win it might set us back more than just this series.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on May 26, 2021, 09:10:28 PM
I like how Randle is coming out.

MUCH better and team seems inspired.

but damn this mfer Bogdanovic does not miss!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 26, 2021, 09:13:33 PM
The Elfid Payton Experiment is over!


We stand a chance now...well, if Julius can at least play as well as Obi


***where the f is Julius? He’s working on biggest NY playoff fail EVER! C’mon Julius!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 26, 2021, 09:16:31 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on May 26, 2021, 09:00:48 PM
Is it hyperbole to say:

This half is our entire season and maybe more.

That's how big it feels.

If Randle doesn't do better or we don't win it might set us back more than just this series.

The season is already a success
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 26, 2021, 09:18:27 PM
Lol...u so stupid
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on May 26, 2021, 09:19:16 PM
Spoke too soon.

No idea why Julius doesn't take that one. when he had a good matchup. That was free throw waiting to happen.

He's really worrying about doubles or something.

It's frustrating to watch.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on May 26, 2021, 09:27:26 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on May 26, 2021, 09:16:31 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on May 26, 2021, 09:00:48 PM
Is it hyperbole to say:

This half is our entire season and maybe more.

That's how big it feels.

If Randle doesn't do better or we don't win it might set us back more than just this series.

The season is already a success

Absolutely, but when I wrote that before the 2nd half, was thinking of risks if Randle is traumatized, reverts back to 2 seasons ago and what that could do to the entire way the team works and how it would cause chaos.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on May 26, 2021, 10:14:14 PM
is it safe yet....







WHEW
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on May 26, 2021, 10:17:17 PM
What a game

That was NY's FINEST there...MSG truly repping us to the fullest.

That was BASKETBALL

Love it
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on May 26, 2021, 10:20:46 PM
LOL....Knicks took six Qs to get used to an amped up crowd
D-Rose is sublime....at 32, after all those injuries, after already surviving a rubbish year in NY a few yrs ago....sublime
Title: Exhale
Post by: chipstern on May 26, 2021, 10:21:36 PM
Knicks spooked the Hawks in the second half.

In which they outscored Atlanta 57-35.

PS: The Elfrid Payton Experiment has been aborted.

PPS: Whew...

PPPS: Seeing Obi's Moms wiping away tears had ne wiping away tears.  Proud of our PUP.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 26, 2021, 10:22:58 PM
There’s our famous defense. Over passing, but a good balanced attack. We can still play a lot better than we did. Time to win the next two so we can clinch at home in game 5.

We need to beat up Young more, but otherwise I like our adjustments.

With Payton less is definitely more.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 26, 2021, 10:23:10 PM
lol lol We Won!! 

*** the hot trash game of all time...and we WON!!!!

Go Knicks!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on May 26, 2021, 10:26:25 PM
Bullock is so important...when he's hitting it changes everything
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 26, 2021, 11:03:26 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on May 23, 2021, 11:56:00 AM
Personnel move to watch is not Elf Payton but OBI TOPPIN, who may lose all or most of his minutes to TAJ GIBSON

This didn't age well pt. 2, lol...

Obi gonna be eating MORE OF Julia's minutes next if Randle doesn't stop looking at Huerter, Gallanari, Bogdanovic, and Collins like they're Pippen, Rodman, Duncan & Tony Allen. Boy is so spooked he backs out and heads to corner looking like Frank on a bad "i don't want the ball" day.

My Boy Obi Came To Play, THO!


https://streamable.com/s1i6hx (https://streamable.com/s1i6hx)




Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on May 26, 2021, 11:04:39 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on May 26, 2021, 10:23:10 PM
lol lol We Won!! 

*** the hot trash game of all time...and we WON!!!!

Go Knicks!

Hot trash?

1st half. Oh yeah.

2nd half? A bit confused.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 26, 2021, 11:05:50 PM
lol what are you confused about..what game did you watch?


Go Knicks!

** and by the way, it is not a great season if we get two more games of sad sack Julius, cause then we're left with nothing but a conundrum, a good season, but def not a great one.


*** Step it the f' up, Julius


**** And I'm not saying it wasn't fun, it was, but pure trash, Thibs and our MVP better come out of the gate with better than that 'ish on Friday.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: hungrycharlie on May 26, 2021, 11:06:59 PM
facilitatorn, i agree 100% about how we need to beat up on Trea more. There was a play in the first half where he was going in for a fast break lay-up, and Randel fouled him, but he should of put yim on his ass. I'm not saying anything malicious, just a good clean hard foul. Like in the good old days. Anyways, great win. Great season no matter what. And I believe we can beat these MFers.
Title: Dang Dawg
Post by: chipstern on May 27, 2021, 12:41:30 AM
Get a grip Rin Tin Tin

Julius will be just fine without your inspirational haraunges.

Save them for Kiid, numb nuts.

Payton is toast.  Don't be greedy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 27, 2021, 12:53:35 AM
I think the Knicks will feel less pressure on the road.

Philly regained its crown as douche nozzle capitol of the world. Ben Franklin was the true father of this country, but aside from that fuck that whole city, especially its sports fans.

New Yorkers dogged Trae’s hairline, but we didn’t dump food on him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 27, 2021, 02:52:44 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on May 27, 2021, 12:53:35 AM

New Yorkers dogged Trae’s hairline, but we didn’t dump food on him.

https://clutchpoints.com/knicks-news-hawks-trae-young-gets-spit-on-by-new-york-fan-in-madison-square-garden/ (https://clutchpoints.com/knicks-news-hawks-trae-young-gets-spit-on-by-new-york-fan-in-madison-square-garden/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 27, 2021, 03:39:49 AM
I saw the flinch and Fifty seemed to catch it though I didn’t actually make out any spit. That’s fucking atrocious. Full moon plus cabin fever is still no excuse.

Is there footage that includes the spitter?

Spitting on someone is worse than pouring popcorn on someone though not worse than dousing them with piping hot spaghetti and meat sauce.

Spitting on Trae also isn’t precisely dumping food on him unless he has a very weird diet.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 27, 2021, 03:43:15 AM
After tie breakers, we have the 19th and 21st picks in the first round.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 27, 2021, 10:17:44 AM
Congrats to all the Knickerbockers who grabbed their first playoff victory.  Has to be a great feeling

Need 1 of 2 in ATL.  (Read:  don't go nuts if we lose the next one)

Thibs just rolling with the big minutes for his guys.  Extra rest with NBA playoff schedule beneficial.  To both teams, of course.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on May 27, 2021, 10:28:43 AM
From an ESPN article, surprising stat about Julius' defense last night:

"Atlanta was especially cold going against Randle. According to ESPN Stats & Information research, the Hawks went 0-of-15 against Randle as the primary defender. It's the first time since data tracking started in the 2013-14 playoffs that a team has gone 0-of-15 against a single player."
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 27, 2021, 10:33:03 AM
Julius!!!


* you still better lay some beat down Friday at the other end, but IMPRESSIVE
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 27, 2021, 10:44:43 AM
Quote from: elephant on May 27, 2021, 10:28:43 AM
From an ESPN article, surprising stat about Julius' defense last night:

"Atlanta was especially cold going against Randle. According to ESPN Stats & Information research, the Hawks went 0-of-15 against Randle as the primary defender. It's the first time since data tracking started in the 2013-14 playoffs that a team has gone 0-of-15 against a single player."

Good stat - thanks
Title: Spitting
Post by: chipstern on May 27, 2021, 11:25:11 AM
Seriously?

From courtside?

What are courtside tickets?  Like $10,000?  Wish my Dad weres till alive, let alone had so much money, he could front me an expensive watch and courtside tickets. 

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E2X54LqXwAA6qTA?format=jpg&name=medium)

This is "purpordedly" the spitter's face.  I mean spitting on someone during a pandemic.  Spitting.  Over hoops?

Derek Rose's Reaction SAYS IT ALL

https://twitter.com/i/status/1397766076839206914 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1397766076839206914)

That to me is incomprehensible. 

Trae Young is, to put it mildy, a worthy adversary.  His handle and crossover, his court vision and dishing, that fucking floater [money in the bank], the sheer audacity of his heaves from beyond the three mile reef.  Thank God Thibs & His Wise Men hit upon the notion of assigning Bullock to shadow him...not that you stop a motherfucker like that, but at least make him work [and let a little air out of his balloon by making him burn some glucose on defense]. 

Anyone see him in his post-game press conference?  One of the reporters was trying to tease him into breaking on the Knicks, and Trae very pointedly observed that ONE SHOULD GIVE CREDIT WHERE CREDIT IS DUE. 

I hope Dolan's Storm Troopers figure out who spat on Trae Bien and give him the Extreme Oakley Treatment, least ways very publically toss his ass permanently from the Garden.  Someone spits on you, man, woman or child, there SHOULD BE CONSEQUENCES.  I mean, like in THE BIG LEBOWSKI, where a thus urinatges on The Dude's Rug. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJbH3T1toQU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJbH3T1toQU)

"Man spits on other Man in NYC and is hit with a surprise counterattack." 
Title: Tears For Obi Obi OBI
Post by: chipstern on May 27, 2021, 11:26:24 AM
(https://external-preview.redd.it/hRSCVyWBmhQZZrPoZe-7gLY2-g5xwRg04gfdYFQjR2A.jpg?auto=webp&s=266e553ba7b5576b3f43e8f51c7fa8006142a6fc)

I'm still in tears. 

Revisiting the Alley Oop, what makes it all the more satisfying as a KNICKS MOMENT, is that Obi precitpitated the fast break BY PLAYING FUCKING DEFENSE, and getting a piece of Huerter's shot around the hoop, and then took off down court like Secretariat, as the giddy anticipation in Clyde's voice swells up. seeing as he does the play developing.  Fuck ME!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Vektn-tc2Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Vektn-tc2Q)

"Obi Toppin Alley Oop Dunk in Transition Electrifies MSG Crowd (2021 ECQF Playoffs Gm 2 vs. Hawks)"

I mean, God Bless Halliburton, but No Stoppin' Toppin Knicks fans. 
Title: This Just In--OMARI SPELLMAN Voted Playoff Shares
Post by: chipstern on May 27, 2021, 12:09:15 PM
TAJ GIBSON peoples. 

A shout out to Omari Spellman and his Weight Watcher's Counselor for their pivotal role in bringing Taj Gibson back to NY. 

Where would we be without Thibs' aged capos, and the prescience of Leon-WWW-Scott for the moves which returned Taj and Derek to the fold. 

An emotional Taj Gibson on winning a playoff game with Tom Thibodeau and Derrick Rose after all they’ve been through: “This is some magical stuff right now. I don’t know how to explain it. I don’t take anything for granted, but every day I come in, it’s just surreal.”
Title: I Dig Trae Young
Post by: chipstern on May 27, 2021, 12:28:15 PM
Chants of “Trae Young’s balding!” I’m OK with the profanity but shouldn’t pick on people who don’t have a lot of hair.
Title: 2021 Tankathon Mock Draft Projections [Knicks, #19, 21, 32, 58]
Post by: chipstern on May 27, 2021, 01:21:47 PM
Don't know that we keep all four picks, or package some of them to move up/down/trade for a vet...

But interesting....

In my void of the phantasmagorical, the prospect at #19 gets the salivary glands going.  A WINNER. 

Obviously none of this is written in stone, but we had a pretty good haul in 2020 with Obi and Immanuel, and this year's class is purportedly a lot deeper and more gifted.  We shall see. 

http://www.tankathon.com/mock_draft (http://www.tankathon.com/mock_draft)

19   NY   
Jared Butler
PG | Baylor
6'3"
190 lbs
Junior
21.7 yrs
19.9 PTS   3.9 REB   5.7 AST   0.4 BLK   2.3 ST

21   NY   
Kai Jones
PF/C | Texas
6'11"
218 lbs
Sophomore
20.4 yrs
13.9 PTS   7.6 REB   1.0 AST   1.5 BLK   1.3 STL

32   NY   
Cameron Thomas
SG | LSU
6'4"
210 lbs
Freshman
19.6 yrs
24.4 PTS   3.6 REB   1.5 AST   0.2 BLK   0.9 ST

58   NY   
Charles Bassey
C | Western Kentucky
6'10"
239 lbs
Junior
20.6 yrs
20.9 PTS   13.7 REB   0.8 AST   3.7 BLK   0.5 STL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BO9t_U9H9sw&t=26s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BO9t_U9H9sw&t=26s)

"Jared Butler Lead's Baylor Over #17 Villanova - Full Highlights 11.24.19 - 22 Points" 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvCREy0nyQQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvCREy0nyQQ)

"Jared Butler Baylor Highlights vs. Gonzaga | 2021 NCAA Tournament Championship Game |"

NOT EVEN SURE IF Butler HAS DECLARED FOR THE DRAFT.  Still, interesting. 

Hey in 2020, the #19 and #21 picks were Saddiq Bey and Tyrese Maxey. 

Anyway, see y'all in Atlanta. 
Title: "Fan" Banned
Post by: chipstern on May 27, 2021, 03:09:50 PM
To call this useless sack of shit a "fan" is surely a stretch. 

Gratified that Dolan's Minions Proceeded Swiftly & Decisively. 

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/31521702/new-york-knicks-ban-fan-madison-square-garden-spitting-atlanta-hawks-trae-young (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/31521702/new-york-knicks-ban-fan-madison-square-garden-spitting-atlanta-hawks-trae-young)

And passed along this prvileged ass-clown's information to the authorities.  He should be charged.  This is criminal behavior, a form of assault & battery, particularly during a pandemic. 

I mean, you are blessed to have courtside seats at the first Knicks playoff appearance since 2013, and your response is to spit on the other team's best player. 

FUCK YOU. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 27, 2021, 03:17:05 PM
Fuck him.  Clearly a douchebag. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on May 27, 2021, 03:48:50 PM
Quote from: Kam on May 27, 2021, 03:17:05 PM
Fuck him.  Clearly a douchebag.

Thnaks, Kam. 

And not to outdone, that Philly "Fan" dumping a bucket of popcorn on Russell Westbrook's head as he is helped from the floor in the tunnel to the dressing room with a game ending ankle injury. 

Westbrook and Young are warriors, brining out the best in our team through the level and intensity of their competition. 

I love Russell and Trae.  They can play on MY TEAM anytime.  When you've beaten THEM, you've beaten THE BEST. 

Douchebag? 

Word. 

Still, doesn't quite seem strong enough? 

LesterDawg?  You want a piece of this pussy? 

Damn. 

PS: I'm a fanatical fan, but I mean, get a grip.  There were folks in front of the Garden after last night's game, understandably giddy, chanting "Bring On Brooklyn."  Uh, Atlanta is a damn talented team, nimrods, with a top tier PG and a great coach, and we will have to raise our level of intensity and execution to a whole other level to even stay on the floor with them Friday night...oh, and the fans in Atlanta might have something to say about bringing on Brooklyn.   SHEEEEET. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 27, 2021, 04:33:20 PM
One thing I can say for sure about popcorn and spittake, neither can ball or even perform in a more general sense. Douchebaggery is their only avenue to project any influence on the world.

They can go watch games in a bar where if they try any of that shit they’ll be punched out and then bounced or they can stay the fuck home. League wide lifetime bans should be in effect for these people preventing them from ever returning as spectators to a live game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Hamilton Samuels on May 27, 2021, 05:17:14 PM
The Knicks will lose this series. And the fans will be to blame.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 27, 2021, 06:18:34 PM
Chase Utley would have been a better player without the steroids. Contrary to rumors, the buggery didn’t effect his fielding one way or the other.
Title: Question
Post by: carlos123 on May 27, 2021, 10:54:41 PM
Is UNO the former Mr. Utley?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 28, 2021, 04:04:37 AM
Uno doesn’t know who he is or what he stands for, his man crush on Chase Utley not withstanding.

He’s now named for the only pizzeria that lets him lick their toilets and floors after hours.

This is career progress for Utley/Uno. Don’t even try to imagine what he did before receiving that charitable opportunity. It was both grosser and more pointless.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 28, 2021, 05:50:18 AM
The Bucks are absolutely smushing the Heat.
Title: Bubble Double Boil Trouble
Post by: chipstern on May 28, 2021, 09:50:47 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on May 28, 2021, 05:50:18 AM
The Bucks are absolutely smushing the Heat.

Payback Is A BITCH. 

Big differences? 

Jrue Holiday + PLUS

Tyler Herro - MINUS

PS: Happy for Bobby Portis.  I got REAL tired of BoD breaking on him all last season, like he was a bum.  11-7 in 20 minutes a night, and 74-157 from trey [a .471% for those who are keeping score].  Reckon if we had cut and kept BP in a reup like we did Payton, we wouldn't have rediscovered Taj Gibson, so you can't have everything, but he is only 26, and in an effective platoon with Brook Lopez, who in the autumn of his years has become a pretty decent three point shooter and a better defender [was the #10 pick back in 2008, same year DRose was #1]. 

PPS: Like Thibs, I have great respect for Pat Riley and Heat Kulture, but I must say I am enjoying watching the Bucks obliterate them.  Trading Olynk and Bradley [and a 2022 pick swap] for Oladipo has blown up in his face.  Kelly O really blossomed in Houston, admittedly putting up serious stats for a crummy team, but Heat sure could have used his three point shooting last night, not that it would've made THAT much of a difference.  ANYWAY, Pat got greedy, and overreached, and it looks like Oladipo won't even play in 2021-22.  And in THIS YEAR's DRAFT, the Heat have NO DRAFT PICKS. 

PPPS: Giannis only took 12 shots but he had 17 boards and five assists.  Jrue Holiday was 7-10 with 12 assists and a garish +46 for the night.  Just remember sports fans, that this Forum's Marjorie Taylor Greene, the Prophet Kiid, has NEVER WAVERED in his Quixotic defense of Donnie Douche for taking the execrable Jordan Hill [Devin Booker's cousin, who lasted all of 24 games with the Knicks, and who has been out of the league since 2017] when DeMar DeRozan, Jrue Holiday, Ty Lawson and Jeff Teague were beckoning like low hanging fruit back in the 2009 draft.  As was Brandon Jennings, who faded after a promising start, including 50 against the Knicks as I recall. 

PPPPS: MEMORY LANE [The Genius Of Donnie Douche] Tracy McGrady is heading to the New York Knicks, who now have more than $9 million of additional salary-cap space to use in free agency this summer.

The Houston Rockets, Sacramento Kings and New York Knicks have agreed to terms that expanded the Houston-Sacramento deal into a three-way trade.

The Knicks acquired McGrady and Sergio Rodriguez from Sacramento; the Rockets get Kevin Martin and Hilton Armstrong from Sacramento, and Jordan Hill and Jared Jeffries from New York.

"This deal is about putting a team together, players who can help us now and in the future," general manager Daryl Morey said. "We're excited about how this sets us up for now and especially in the next year."

Houston also has the right to swap first-round picks with New York in 2011, and the Rockets also get New York's 2012 first-round pick.

FOOTNOTE: The Earthly Remains of McGrady lasted all of 24 games with the Knicks.  One less than Donnie Douche's other 2009-2010 CRIPPLE OUTREACH, 6'11" SF Jonathan Bender, who had some tantalizing moments shooting threes and draining 90% of his FTs, on his way out the door, his great promise ultimately derailed by debilitating injuries. 
Title: Austin Rivers
Post by: chipstern on May 28, 2021, 10:07:58 AM
Happy for Austin. 

Taking advantage of his opportunity with Denver.  Was 5-10 from trey with 21-4-2 in 37 minutes in a Nuggets win over Portland. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 28, 2021, 03:18:03 PM
PPS: Like Thibs, I have great respect for Pat Riley and Heat Kulture, but I must say I am enjoying watching the Bucks obliterate them.  Trading Olynk and Bradley [and a 2022 pick swap] for Oladipo has blown up in his face.  Kelly O really blossomed in Houston, admittedly putting up serious stats for a crummy team, but Heat sure could have used his three point shooting last night, not that it would've made THAT much of a difference.  ANYWAY, Pat got greedy, and overreached, and it looks like Oladipo won't even play in 2021-22.  And in THIS YEAR's DRAFT, the Heat have NO DRAFT PICKS.


heh

Incorrect
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 28, 2021, 03:26:01 PM
So....

what did Rockets get for Harden again?
Title: The Pearl
Post by: chipstern on May 28, 2021, 03:27:11 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxiOlpmw7ug (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxiOlpmw7ug)

Earl Monroe Offense Highlights
Title: Re: The Pearl
Post by: carlos123 on May 28, 2021, 06:18:43 PM
Quote from: chipstern on May 28, 2021, 03:27:11 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxiOlpmw7ug (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxiOlpmw7ug)

Earl Monroe Offense Highlights

WOW!!!

UN-FUCKING-STOPPABLE

UN-FUCKING-BELIEVABLE

THANKS CHIP 🙏🏼
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 28, 2021, 06:53:02 PM
Knicks pregame crew

RJ Barret = points

"19"
"18"
"16"


Nahhhh.......



TWENTY-FIVE
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 28, 2021, 06:53:43 PM
As of 630 Thibs still undecided on starters
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 28, 2021, 07:30:41 PM
lol, he made up his mind

*So nice starting a game playing five versus five basketball!

**next need—wake the F up Julius!

***afraid to take Gallinari...WTF Julius???? C’mon man!

****even Clyde is like, WTF?

*****and when you lose Randle on offense you lose Bullock too, as he gets most of his in-rhythm threes off Julius double teams

******* FINALLY!!!!!!! Go Julius Go!!!

********* First First Quarter won by the Knicks...what a f'ing surprise, lmao....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on May 28, 2021, 07:39:57 PM
Rose to the Knicks = A Coup Detroit  ;)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on May 28, 2021, 07:40:35 PM
Quote from: UNO on May 27, 2021, 05:17:14 PM
The Knicks will lose this series. And the fans will be to blame.

Drive by pooping much?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on May 28, 2021, 07:50:59 PM
Seems the Hawks coaches / McMillan identified where Randle likes to receive the ball to be effective & is when the are choosing to double him & put under pressure.

It's TEXTBOOK what happens differently in the playoffs vs. regular season due to preparation.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 28, 2021, 08:06:19 PM
Nate's a heck of a coach, no doubt, but as Clyde notes, Julius has seen double and triple teams all season, nothing new under the sun. He's had nine quarters of Nate's coverage now. Time to show...unless you really believe Gallo* is some kind of Rick Mahorn reincarnated. D ramps up in the playoffs always. So do stars. Let's see if Julius is one.

** maybe Gallo is lol, 1 v 1, Randle couldn't take him...damn

*** so far, only All-Star on the court is...Trae Young, gotta change.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on May 28, 2021, 08:31:44 PM
Damn, I miss the MSG stream.

(I'm pretty sure that's why Julius is off his game)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 28, 2021, 08:32:17 PM
Need Quickley to get up more shots...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 28, 2021, 08:35:04 PM
Where's Bo?

Hunter looks better than RJ

Has to change
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on May 28, 2021, 08:37:26 PM
Quote from: elephant on May 28, 2021, 08:31:44 PM
Damn, I miss the MSG stream.

(I'm pretty sure that's why Julius is off his game)

Ah, found it.

A good sign.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on May 28, 2021, 08:44:33 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on May 28, 2021, 08:06:19 PM
Nate's a heck of a coach, no doubt, but as Clyde notes, Julius has seen double and triple teams all season, nothing new under the sun. He's had nine quarters of Nate's coverage now. Time to show...unless you really believe Gallo* is some kind of Rick Mahorn reincarnated. D ramps up in the playoffs always. So do stars. Let's see if Julius is one.

** maybe Gallo is lol, 1 v 1, Randle couldn't take him...damn

*** so far, only All-Star on the court is...Trae Young, gotta change.

Fair point, but we also know he did have periods of struggle.

In general...

RJ's performance I can accept far more than Randle. He's a very inexperienced and young player despite his maturity.

I think he's trying to make up for Randle. The whole damn team is and only Rose is reliable on a consistent level.

Randle's our by far leading player, an All-Star who averaged a 24 ppg, had MVP chants hurled at him and was a dominant force.

BUT..

This was an unusual season and he had an ATROCIOUS performance the season before where I sure was ready to move on, and I think he's a really cool dude and is talented.

This was always the perils of relying on someone like that who was such a late bloomer in a weird season.

Who are the big late bloomers you can think of?

Nash
Billups
Oladipo

Oladipo is one who did fall off but he had a knee injury.

Randle is a very different personality than Nash and Billups.

HE actually does remind me more of a far more talented Charles Smith, who was a scorer on the Clippers, but they were a BAD team.

There were long stretches this season Randle looked like a Lebron-lite without the hops.

The team relied on him MANY games.

Now they seem to have lost their trust. I don't blame them.

It's gotta be confusing and frusrating.

On a few stretches this season did he struggle.

RJ was awful earlier in the year and some like Macri wanted him possibly gone or lost faith.

Randle? WE NEED THIS MFer
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 28, 2021, 08:46:11 PM
2 lefties start 1-14

Ouch

Is Nate that good?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on May 28, 2021, 08:47:40 PM
With the doubling of Randle I am also suggesting it is likely more strategically placed, used and dedicated by a team like the Hawks who suffered Randle's wrath plenty.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 28, 2021, 08:55:50 PM
There were long stretches this season Randle looked like a Lebron-lite without the hops.

The team relied on him MANY games.

Now they seem to have lost their trust. I don't blame them.

The reason to keep starting Payton is to get Randle going

-  NBA Radio's Eddie Johnson
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 28, 2021, 08:56:21 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on May 28, 2021, 08:44:33 PM

RJ's performance I can accept far more than Randle. He's a very inexperienced and young player despite his maturity.

I think he's trying to make up for Randle. The whole damn team is and only Rose is reliable on a consistent level.


Yup, RJ I kind of expected, feared - he didn't look that great in the end of season "big games" — though I hoped for more (and that is NO KNOCK..long term prognosis excellent, he is young, game still forming, FINE upward trajectory)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on May 28, 2021, 08:57:17 PM
Real shame to be wasting DROSE at this level.

If Randle was closer to his game this season we'd be a legit force that we were at the end of the season.

So disappointing to watch, but we have to face reality that it was may have been an aberhation.

Linsanity (Randle's COVID Extended Remix)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 28, 2021, 08:57:58 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on May 28, 2021, 08:55:50 PM

The reason to keep starting Payton is to get Randle going

-  NBA Radio's Eddie Johnson

lol, no, lol...


***ain't nothing gonna stop you from humping that poor dead boy's corpse

***The reason not to start him — he is awful and you can avoid a game opening deficit, mission accomplished, other missions to accomplish now

AS JULIUS HITS THE LONG THREE...NO PAYTON ASSIST NECESSARY, LET'S GO NOW BIG BOY!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 28, 2021, 09:25:28 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on May 26, 2021, 11:03:26 PM
...

Obi gonna be eating MORE OF Julia's minutes next if Randle doesn't stop looking at Huerter, Gallanari, Bogdanovic, and Collins like they're Pippen, Rodman, Duncan & Tony Allen. Boy is so spooked he backs out and heads to corner looking like Frank on a bad "i don't want the ball" day.



Who woulda thought...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on May 28, 2021, 09:48:43 PM
Quote from: PrezIke on May 28, 2021, 08:57:17 PM
Real shame to be wasting DROSE at this level.

If Randle was closer to his game this season we'd be a legit force that we were at the end of the season.

So disappointing to watch, but we have to face reality that it was may have been an aberhation.

Linsanity (Randle's COVID Extended Remix)

Aberration? No, no. Fuck that. I've seen almost every Knicks game this year. I know what he can do.

This is why Randall in particular, and the Knicks, in general has proven such a dramatic team. They've continually overcome the odds and find the best level of themselves.

It's not surprising that they're struggling. But you really think the Hawks are their Waterloo? To be continued on Sunday.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Hamilton Samuels on May 28, 2021, 10:04:53 PM
Well ..ONE team came to play.

Heh
Title: KING JULIUS IS BACK!!!
Post by: carlos123 on May 28, 2021, 10:10:16 PM
THAT'S MY PREDIDICTION FOR SUNDAY

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3eR7JC9xsEF0unwhb57wxE0Kw1uaJR_MGuEpq8PTkGkwYLaX2NlFBKeMhidoeaI1xYQGnBLR5iKpXgu_mAmdSAHySa03dV0v0e1Mbpod0OLA3h0koqthLR4sgk0b8isYn6C4YpMAnoOFXAOTEz02i3p=w598-h411-no?authuser=0)

So there!
Title: Re:is it a trick or an illusion?
Post by: Jack Straw on May 28, 2021, 10:24:48 PM
is the stage too big? form me that's really the only Q...
and right now it seems the answer is yes...

everyone expected a 6 or 7 game series, so the Knicks would have to have lost a few...so there is that...

how deep can they dig - we'll find out...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on May 28, 2021, 10:32:44 PM
Sure would be nice to see Ntilikina get a few minutes to stop the bleeding.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on May 28, 2021, 11:07:49 PM
why not Lavor Postell?  The problems are beyond 10 good minutes of French Frank, if Julius and RJ are not hitting, and Bullock and Burks are also not hitting, then French Frank is not  a difference maker...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 28, 2021, 11:29:20 PM
it really is hard to overstate the magnitude of the disaster so far

it is a disaster

Julius Randle is 13-54 FG in this series (24.1%).

It’s the worst FG pct by any player in the first 3 games of a postseason in the shot-clock era (min. 50 FGA).

https://twitter.com/ESPNStatsInfo/status/1398458531548913675 (https://twitter.com/ESPNStatsInfo/status/1398458531548913675)

on the positive side, a 2-1 deficit isn't anything catastrophic, should he wake up and show that the regular season was not an aberration


*** OT: a little Frank would be a good idea
Title: Re: The Forum Ass Clown Lets Loose Another Anal Emission From the Mouth
Post by: lesterluv on May 28, 2021, 11:58:43 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on May 24, 2021, 10:47:17 AM

Only two people in the world want to see Elf continue to start, the forum Ass-Clown and Elf's Mom, and by now, even Elf's Mom would probably like to end the suffering and appreciate a mercy-benching.


Apparently, I was completely wrong with that last assertion. Elfrid's mom out there causing a 'lil twitter-storm :)

DannieP @DannieP19 : How that worked out for you! #ProudMama

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E2gj1LPWYAAtODH?format=jpg&name=small)

https://twitter.com/DannieP19/status/1398434792501354498 (https://twitter.com/DannieP19/status/1398434792501354498)


***lol, the replies are hilarious....Mama Payton shows way more fight than her son usually does:

paul @Yush57085906
We don’t want your son on our team

DannieP @DannieP19
It’s not your team, it’s Dolan Team, your just a fan with no say!!!

steve bohen @stevebohen
Lmfaoooo she is salty as fuk

Ken @NYKen51
This is a trap. Will not engage. Lol. Next thing you know ESPN will run a segment about how Knick fans are mean to mothers

Go Mama Payton Go!


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 29, 2021, 07:20:09 AM
Quote from: Jack Straw on May 28, 2021, 11:07:49 PM
why not Lavor Postell?  The problems are beyond 10 good minutes of French Frank, if Julius and RJ are not hitting, and Bullock and Burks are also not hitting, then French Frank is not  a difference maker...

Frank would have to be a STATEMENT defensive guy - a true stopper like a Thybulle.

He isnt that.  But fuck it - try.

Stay with this coach/management team, no matter the outcome.  Isnt always right there in black and white - what to do.  Chemistry/culture are key.

And with this - you also need production, yes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 29, 2021, 07:34:19 AM
Quote from: elephant on May 28, 2021, 08:31:44 PM
Damn, I miss the MSG stream.

(I'm pretty sure that's why Julius is off his game)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 29, 2021, 07:43:39 AM
Offenses that don’t have much installed to get players constantly moving crisply off the ball are far easier to stop than ones that do. We’ve been in the former category all year. We’re paying for it now. More than any personnel moves, that’s the number one thing we need to address in the off-season. Fuck grinding. Glide.
Title: Game 3: Can't Blame Payton
Post by: chipstern on May 29, 2021, 09:26:08 AM
We are in the hole 2-1.  Last I checked it's a 7 game series. 

Anyone remember that first Bulls Knicks 7 game series under Riley?  Oak set the tone when on an early baseline drive, he leveled Mister Bill with a forearm shiv.  And the Julius having a bad start?  Anyone remember how Xavier McDaniel spooked the estimable Scottie Pippen and completely took him out of his rhythm through the first six games. 

Hey, even the best players get the playoff jitters.  Anyone see Kyrie last night? 

NO, Knicks fans, Julius' season WAS NOT A FUCKING MIRAGE, as someone suggested.  But in the playoffs, the regular season DOES NOT COUNT FOR DICK.  And in a seven game series, it is a chess game, in which coaches and players make adjustments, and take other teams out of their game.  Like we did to the Hawks in Game 2, and like the Hawks did to us in Game 3.  Game ONE being pretty even. 

(https://www.financialsymmetry.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/5008157530_4156c66104_z.jpg)

Always darkest before the dawn.

No, motherfuckers, the regular season WAS NOT AN ABBERATION.  But again, for the attention deficit disordered amongst you, needs we point out that these are the playoffs and seven game series.  LOOK WHAT HAPPENNED TO THE UNBEATABLE NETS LAST NIGHT IN BOSTON. 

Hello

So while the tendency to assign blame is overwhleming, and to focus on one player rather than 15, here are some interesting stats to chew on. 

Derrick Rose was a force as a scorer, really inspiring with 30 points, but he had only 5 assists.  Trae Young had 14.  Rose's +/- was a team leading -16.  Young's +/- was +9.     

NY came out of the first quarter up 31-29, but Atlanta spanked us in the second frame 29-13, and we could never make that up, playing 28-28 in the third and 22-19 in the fourth. 

Finally, here are some interesting stats which belie the Julius choke narrative [ditto RJ, our number two scorer], even though he was clearly spooked.  Knicks were 27-30 from the FT line [90%] while the Hawks were only 5-8 [62.5%].  Which goes to a good point Facil made about the GRIND versus GLIDE. 

However, the Hawks were a whopping 16-27 [59.3%] from trey while the Knicks were 9-30 [30%]...additionally, the Hawks had 28 assists, while the the Knicks had 14.               
                                                                                               
So choking or simply out-fucking-played?  The Hawks defensive intensity was ratcheted up from the opening possession, and as for OUR much vaunted defense, it is hard to win when the other team shoots damn near 60% from trey and you shoot 30%. Color me foolish, but THAT seems a more significant stat than JR's execrable 2-15 [though that doth give one pause]                                                                     
                                                                               
ADDENDUM: Rose's offensive game was uplifting, but I wonder how NOT HAVING HIM COME OFF THE BENCH affected the performance of our second unit.  Least ways the game was ceded to the Hawks in a second quarter where we were outscored 29-13. 

Anyway, CAN'T BLAME THIS LOSS ON ELFRID PAYTON, can we, Knicks fans?. 
Title: Re: Game 3: Can't Blame Payton
Post by: lesterluv on May 29, 2021, 10:37:38 AM
Quote from: chipstern on May 29, 2021, 09:26:08 AM
  Anyone remember how Xavier McDaniel spooked the estimable Scottie Pippen and completely took him out of his rhythm through the first six games. 

This...........ahhhhh......sublime
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jerrya on May 29, 2021, 05:12:48 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on May 28, 2021, 11:29:20 PM
it really is hard to overstate the magnitude of the disaster so far

it is a disaster

Julius Randle is 13-54 FG in this series (24.1%).

It’s the worst FG pct by any player in the first 3 games of a postseason in the shot-clock era (min. 50 FGA).

https://twitter.com/ESPNStatsInfo/status/1398458531548913675 (https://twitter.com/ESPNStatsInfo/status/1398458531548913675)

on the positive side, a 2-1 deficit isn't anything catastrophic, should he wake up and show that the regular season was not an aberration


*** OT: a little Frank would be a good idea

Well everyone is entitled to a bad game or 2, but JR is 0 for 3 when it really counts.  The only thing to learn from this is he is not the man to build a team around.  Better now than learn next year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 29, 2021, 06:10:52 PM
Need to feed Randle early - and for that ELFRID PAYTON is the best starter

I'd start Rose at the off guard, bring Barrett off the bench.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 29, 2021, 06:12:13 PM
The only thing to learn from this is he is not the man to build a team around. 


Never was

Doesnt mean we should get rid of him
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on May 29, 2021, 07:11:50 PM
Quote from: Jerrya on May 29, 2021, 05:12:48 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on May 28, 2021, 11:29:20 PM
it really is hard to overstate the magnitude of the disaster so far

it is a disaster

Julius Randle is 13-54 FG in this series (24.1%).

It’s the worst FG pct by any player in the first 3 games of a postseason in the shot-clock era (min. 50 FGA).

https://twitter.com/ESPNStatsInfo/status/1398458531548913675 (https://twitter.com/ESPNStatsInfo/status/1398458531548913675)

on the positive side, a 2-1 deficit isn't anything catastrophic, should he wake up and show that the regular season was not an aberration


*** OT: a little Frank would be a good idea

Well everyone is entitled to a bad game or 2, but JR is 0 for 3 when it really counts.  The only thing to learn from this is he is not the man to build a team around.  Better now than learn next year.

NONSENSE.
Title: Post Season Pussies
Post by: chipstern on May 29, 2021, 09:59:39 PM
Knicks fans spitting on JR makes me sick.

He is having a nightmarish post Season.  There is no way to sugar coat that.

But he ain't alone, number one.

We are going into Game 4 tomorrow.  Did you front runners think we were going to win four straight?

Other than D-ROSE, where are our PGs?  And Rose has been inspirational, but 39 minutes a night?  What does this tell us?  And Rose is more of a scorer than a facilitator.

Nevermind that others have been up and down.  Never mind that Game 1 could have gone either way and that Thibs' end game strategy was to insert an ice cold French Frank and to have Burks inbound instead of tasking him to shoot.

We dominated the fourth quarter of Game 2

Atlanta dominated the second quarter of Game 3.

We and our roster of roll players ARE NOT IN THE PLAYOFFS WITHOUT JULIUS.  No credit to Hawks D?  Don't resign him.

FUCK YOU.

PS: In the 1947 World Series, the Cardinals took the Red Sox in 7.  Ted Williams batted .200, so I guess they should have bailed on him, right?

Bunch of front running pussies.  We got here as 15, and we will rise and fall as 15.  Julius is having a crisis of confidence and the Hawks are bedeviling him.  And Knicks fans are bailing?  DAMN FRONT RUNNING WEENIES.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 29, 2021, 10:14:37 PM
heh
Title: Mr. heh#30
Post by: carlos123 on May 30, 2021, 12:40:50 AM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on May 29, 2021, 10:14:37 PM
heh

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3ckosSoTRHGXG4k-OCA2pVXfzewhXuzBYoGpsyMZVnzDq9ClI46oruQhbgSzQ9NiWcRnXh17QQU1T2E-x8FKtLT4EzHS0NTRyTH3a3D_76D71Q-i9VLGdWCOYKW1N7yNCrXtD_KYx0uYx_1P39yT7qh=w368-h570-no?authuser=0)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on May 30, 2021, 03:06:32 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on May 29, 2021, 06:10:52 PM
Need to feed Randle early - and for that ELFRID PAYTON is the best starter

I'd start Rose at the off guard, bring Barrett off the bench.

I don't see this. It's no great challenge to get Randle the ball early.

But I do think it's wise to get Barrett involved early. He had a tendency to vanish occasionally during the season, and we're seeing it again in the playoffs. That said, your idea of starting Payton and Rose is intriguing. And Barrett may come out with a little more fire if he's unexpectedly benched.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 30, 2021, 09:35:48 AM
Reminder - game at 1 PM today

Why do we get 3 days between games 1 and 2 - then 20 hours between 2 and 3?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 30, 2021, 10:36:22 AM
Julius gonna bring it today — can feel it in my bones.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on May 30, 2021, 11:40:40 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on May 30, 2021, 10:36:22 AM
Julius gonna bring it today — can feel it in my bones.

Yep!

Amen to that.

(Otherwise we've got some Shakespearean tragic shit on our hands.)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 30, 2021, 12:23:13 PM
15-12
15-12
14-11

At least he has been boarding

I will say today for Randle

21-15-4
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on May 30, 2021, 01:07:08 PM
Quote from: elephant on May 30, 2021, 03:06:32 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on May 29, 2021, 06:10:52 PM
Need to feed Randle early - and for that ELFRID PAYTON is the best starter

I'd start Rose at the off guard, bring Barrett off the bench.

I don't see this. It's no great challenge to get Randle the ball early.

But I do think it's wise to get Barrett involved early. He had a tendency to vanish occasionally during the season, and we're seeing it again in the playoffs. That said, your idea of starting Payton and Rose is intriguing. And Barrett may come out with a little more fire if he's unexpectedly benched.

Though if we're talking about curbing Trae's mojo, Rose and Frank would seem a better combo.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 30, 2021, 01:26:53 PM
4 boards, 3 assists and a steal for RJ early on (0-3 shooting)

https://sports.yahoo.com/nba/new-york-knicks-atlanta-hawks-2021053001/

Rose to locker room
Title: Disaster Relief
Post by: carlos123 on May 30, 2021, 03:27:48 PM
This disaster will make at least one happy forumite: Mr. Utley, AKA UNO.

Congrats, Mr. UNO!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on May 30, 2021, 03:33:50 PM
That was an asskicking.
Title: Re: Disaster Relief
Post by: Hamilton Samuels on May 30, 2021, 03:37:44 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 30, 2021, 03:27:48 PM
This disaster will make at least one happy forumite: Mr. Utley, AKA UNO.

Congrats, Mr. UNO!

For what? Calling it as it is?

I don't hate the Knicks. I just know that the Knicks fans, like most NY fans, always overestimate their team's abilities, and underestimate the loathing their behavior brings about around the country.

That said, it ain't over until the fat lady does her thing.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 30, 2021, 03:42:48 PM
Oooooopa.....



**** I do wanna need to show some love to Taj Gibson for that 1 v. 3 under-the-basket defensive stop, the highlight of a second half with very few
Title: Re: Disaster Relief
Post by: elephant on May 30, 2021, 04:27:59 PM
Quote from: UNO on May 30, 2021, 03:37:44 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 30, 2021, 03:27:48 PM
This disaster will make at least one happy forumite: Mr. Utley, AKA UNO.

Congrats, Mr. UNO!

For what? Calling it as it is?

I don't hate the Knicks. I just know that the Knicks fans, like most NY fans, always overestimate their team's abilities, and underestimate the loathing their behavior brings about around the country.

That said, it ain't over until the fat lady does her thing.

Well, actually, you said the Knicks would lose because of their bad fans.

Which, you know, sounded pretty stupid.

But maybe there's some esoteric hidden message there that eluded me.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on May 30, 2021, 04:29:21 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on May 30, 2021, 03:42:48 PM
Oooooopa.....



**** I do wanna need to show some love to Taj Gibson for that 1 v. 3 under-the-basket defensive stop, the highlight of a second half with very few

Right on about Taj. Funny the way the two older vets have shown up to play.
Title: Re: Disaster Relief
Post by: Hamilton Samuels on May 30, 2021, 04:34:45 PM
Quote from: elephant on May 30, 2021, 04:27:59 PM
Quote from: UNO on May 30, 2021, 03:37:44 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 30, 2021, 03:27:48 PM
This disaster will make at least one happy forumite: Mr. Utley, AKA UNO.

Congrats, Mr. UNO!

For what? Calling it as it is?

I don't hate the Knicks. I just know that the Knicks fans, like most NY fans, always overestimate their team's abilities, and underestimate the loathing their behavior brings about around the country.

That said, it ain't over until the fat lady does her thing.

Well, actually, you said the Knicks would lose because of their bad fans.

Which, you know, sounded pretty stupid.

But maybe there's some esoteric hidden message there that eluded me.

You don't think the spitting incident had any motivational impact on the Hawks?

Oh, okay.
Title: Re: Disaster Relief
Post by: elephant on May 30, 2021, 04:50:29 PM
Quote from: UNO on May 30, 2021, 04:34:45 PM
Quote from: elephant on May 30, 2021, 04:27:59 PM
Quote from: UNO on May 30, 2021, 03:37:44 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 30, 2021, 03:27:48 PM
This disaster will make at least one happy forumite: Mr. Utley, AKA UNO.

Congrats, Mr. UNO!

For what? Calling it as it is?

I don't hate the Knicks. I just know that the Knicks fans, like most NY fans, always overestimate their team's abilities, and underestimate the loathing their behavior brings about around the country.

That said, it ain't over until the fat lady does her thing.

Well, actually, you said the Knicks would lose because of their bad fans.

Which, you know, sounded pretty stupid.

But maybe there's some esoteric hidden message there that eluded me.

You don't think the spitting incident had any motivational impact on the Hawks?

Oh, okay.

Oh yeah, you're absolutely right.

That's why the Wiz turned things around and blew away the 76ers yesterday.

They're fucking professional athletes! Watching the game today and attributing the respective performances to "motivation" seems facile.
Title: Re: Disaster Relief
Post by: carlos123 on May 30, 2021, 06:16:59 PM
Quote from: elephant on May 30, 2021, 04:50:29 PM
Quote from: UNO on May 30, 2021, 04:34:45 PM
Quote from: elephant on May 30, 2021, 04:27:59 PM
Quote from: UNO on May 30, 2021, 03:37:44 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 30, 2021, 03:27:48 PM
This disaster will make at least one happy forumite: Mr. Utley, AKA UNO.

Congrats, Mr. UNO!

For what? Calling it as it is?

I don't hate the Knicks. I just know that the Knicks fans, like most NY fans, always overestimate their team's abilities, and underestimate the loathing their behavior brings about around the country.

That said, it ain't over until the fat lady does her thing.

Well, actually, you said the Knicks would lose because of their bad fans.

Which, you know, sounded pretty stupid.

But maybe there's some esoteric hidden message there that eluded me.

You don't think the spitting incident had any motivational impact on the Hawks?

Oh, okay.

Oh yeah, you're absolutely right.

That's why the Wiz turned things around and blew away the 76ers yesterday.

They're fucking professional athletes! Watching the game today and attributing the respective performances to "motivation" seems facile.

elephant, there ain't no winning with Mr. UNO.

He moves in circles.

Once you dismount his first 105 stupid arguments, he'll go back to his stupid argument No. 1 and start over as if there hadn't been any discussion or rebuttals in between.
Title: Re: Disaster Relief
Post by: Hamilton Samuels on May 30, 2021, 06:24:05 PM
Quote from: elephant on May 30, 2021, 04:50:29 PM
Quote from: UNO on May 30, 2021, 04:34:45 PM
Quote from: elephant on May 30, 2021, 04:27:59 PM
Quote from: UNO on May 30, 2021, 03:37:44 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 30, 2021, 03:27:48 PM
This disaster will make at least one happy forumite: Mr. Utley, AKA UNO.

Congrats, Mr. UNO!

For what? Calling it as it is?

I don't hate the Knicks. I just know that the Knicks fans, like most NY fans, always overestimate their team's abilities, and underestimate the loathing their behavior brings about around the country.

That said, it ain't over until the fat lady does her thing.

Well, actually, you said the Knicks would lose because of their bad fans.

Which, you know, sounded pretty stupid.

But maybe there's some esoteric hidden message there that eluded me.

You don't think the spitting incident had any motivational impact on the Hawks?

Oh, okay.

Oh yeah, you're absolutely right.

That's why the Wiz turned things around and blew away the 76ers yesterday.

They're fucking professional athletes! Watching the game today and attributing the respective performances to "motivation" seems facile.

Let's call it "extra-motivation". The fact is the Knicks and Hawks are very close talent-wise. The Sixers and Wiz? Not so much. So a little spit can put some extra shine on the old motivation, where as popcorn is just...popcorn.

Be well, and thank you for providing me with extra motivation, 'phant.
Title: Re: Disaster Relief
Post by: Hamilton Samuels on May 30, 2021, 06:24:58 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 30, 2021, 06:16:59 PM
Quote from: elephant on May 30, 2021, 04:50:29 PM
Quote from: UNO on May 30, 2021, 04:34:45 PM
Quote from: elephant on May 30, 2021, 04:27:59 PM
Quote from: UNO on May 30, 2021, 03:37:44 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 30, 2021, 03:27:48 PM
This disaster will make at least one happy forumite: Mr. Utley, AKA UNO.

Congrats, Mr. UNO!

For what? Calling it as it is?

I don't hate the Knicks. I just know that the Knicks fans, like most NY fans, always overestimate their team's abilities, and underestimate the loathing their behavior brings about around the country.

That said, it ain't over until the fat lady does her thing.

Well, actually, you said the Knicks would lose because of their bad fans.

Which, you know, sounded pretty stupid.

But maybe there's some esoteric hidden message there that eluded me.

You don't think the spitting incident had any motivational impact on the Hawks?

Oh, okay.

Oh yeah, you're absolutely right.

That's why the Wiz turned things around and blew away the 76ers yesterday.

They're fucking professional athletes! Watching the game today and attributing the respective performances to "motivation" seems facile.

elephant, there ain't no winning with Mr. UNO.

He moves in circles.

Once you dismount his first 105 stupid arguments, he'll go back to his stupid argument No. 1 and start over as if there hadn't been any discussion or rebuttals in between.

Oh? Still smarting from your last whuppin'?

Too bad.
Title: Re: Disaster Relief
Post by: carlos123 on May 30, 2021, 06:45:11 PM
Quote from: UNO on May 30, 2021, 06:24:58 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 30, 2021, 06:16:59 PM
Quote from: elephant on May 30, 2021, 04:50:29 PM
Quote from: UNO on May 30, 2021, 04:34:45 PM
Quote from: elephant on May 30, 2021, 04:27:59 PM
Quote from: UNO on May 30, 2021, 03:37:44 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 30, 2021, 03:27:48 PM
This disaster will make at least one happy forumite: Mr. Utley, AKA UNO.

Congrats, Mr. UNO!

For what? Calling it as it is?

I don't hate the Knicks. I just know that the Knicks fans, like most NY fans, always overestimate their team's abilities, and underestimate the loathing their behavior brings about around the country.

That said, it ain't over until the fat lady does her thing.

Well, actually, you said the Knicks would lose because of their bad fans.

Which, you know, sounded pretty stupid.

But maybe there's some esoteric hidden message there that eluded me.

You don't think the spitting incident had any motivational impact on the Hawks?

Oh, okay.

Oh yeah, you're absolutely right.

That's why the Wiz turned things around and blew away the 76ers yesterday.

They're fucking professional athletes! Watching the game today and attributing the respective performances to "motivation" seems facile.

elephant, there ain't no winning with Mr. UNO.

He moves in circles.

Once you dismount his first 105 stupid arguments, he'll go back to his stupid argument No. 1 and start over as if there hadn't been any discussion or rebuttals in between.

Oh? Still smarting from your last whuppin'?

Too bad.

No "whuppin'" at all Mr. UNO.

Like I said, when you closed the circle and went back to stupid argument No. 1, I gave up.

Happy killings!
Title: Re: Disaster Relief
Post by: Hamilton Samuels on May 30, 2021, 07:50:43 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 30, 2021, 06:45:11 PM
Quote from: UNO on May 30, 2021, 06:24:58 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 30, 2021, 06:16:59 PM
Quote from: elephant on May 30, 2021, 04:50:29 PM
Quote from: UNO on May 30, 2021, 04:34:45 PM
Quote from: elephant on May 30, 2021, 04:27:59 PM
Quote from: UNO on May 30, 2021, 03:37:44 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 30, 2021, 03:27:48 PM
This disaster will make at least one happy forumite: Mr. Utley, AKA UNO.

Congrats, Mr. UNO!

For what? Calling it as it is?

I don't hate the Knicks. I just know that the Knicks fans, like most NY fans, always overestimate their team's abilities, and underestimate the loathing their behavior brings about around the country.

That said, it ain't over until the fat lady does her thing.

Well, actually, you said the Knicks would lose because of their bad fans.

Which, you know, sounded pretty stupid.

But maybe there's some esoteric hidden message there that eluded me.

You don't think the spitting incident had any motivational impact on the Hawks?

Oh, okay.

Oh yeah, you're absolutely right.

That's why the Wiz turned things around and blew away the 76ers yesterday.

They're fucking professional athletes! Watching the game today and attributing the respective performances to "motivation" seems facile.

elephant, there ain't no winning with Mr. UNO.

He moves in circles.

Once you dismount his first 105 stupid arguments, he'll go back to his stupid argument No. 1 and start over as if there hadn't been any discussion or rebuttals in between.

Oh? Still smarting from your last whuppin'?

Too bad.

No "whuppin'" at all Mr. UNO.

Like I said, when you closed the circle and went back to stupid argument No. 1, I gave up.

Happy killings!

Enjoy your loved ones murder!

Title: Re: Disaster Relief
Post by: carlos123 on May 30, 2021, 08:25:04 PM
Quote from: UNO on May 30, 2021, 07:50:43 PM

Enjoy your loved ones murder!

There you go again.
Good-bye Mr. UNO-DOS-...-UNO.
Title: Atlanta
Post by: carlos123 on May 30, 2021, 08:28:10 PM
I'm afraid they just have more talent than we do.

They were never whole during the season, and now they are.

Barring a miracle come-back, we had a wonderful run which ends with Atlanta this year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 30, 2021, 08:40:34 PM
Our starting Center would probably have been helpful, but we’re not quite dead yet.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 31, 2021, 11:02:50 AM
I like the Knicks to win Game 5.

-----

Stephen A roasting Porzingis today.

And Kyrie - stop the crap with disgracing an entire NBA organization over whatever feelings (displaced) you may have on a town you once played in.

Respect gets respect in return, even if not stated.  What you did yesterday was wrong - not forgiving anyone who tossed trash at you on your way off the court.

I love Kyrie

Kyrie needs to own up to some things.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Hamilton Samuels on May 31, 2021, 12:18:55 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on May 31, 2021, 11:02:50 AM
I like the Knicks to win Game 5.

-----

Stephen A roasting Porzingis today.

And Kyrie - stop the crap with disgracing an entire NBA organization over whatever feelings (displaced) you may have on a town you once played in.

Respect gets respect in return, even if not stated.  What you did yesterday was wrong - not forgiving anyone who tossed trash at you on your way off the court.

I love Kyrie

Kyrie needs to own up to some things.
Respect?

Isn't that the same town that showed so much love to Jayson Kidd and his wife?

Don't see a pattern here, kid?

Heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 31, 2021, 12:46:28 PM
Don't see a pattern here, kid?


Sure

In every city

Players beating the city's team are set upon by certain immature fans.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 31, 2021, 06:57:26 PM
Do you want a taco, one utter fool?

As Kiid rises, Uno falls. Strange world.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 01, 2021, 06:28:24 PM
Gearing up for what may be the last run of the 2021 grit and grind Knickerbockers.

Come on, boys. Let’s send this back to Atlanta!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 01, 2021, 06:59:53 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 01, 2021, 06:28:24 PM
Gearing up for what may be the last run of the 2021 grit and grind Knickerbockers.

Come on, boys. Let’s send this back to Atlanta!

Clint Capella throwing down the gauntlet, punking Julius and the Knicks for cheap shots and faux toughness. 

We shall see if our Knicks answer. 

There is a good chance Thibs plays Julius and Obi together. 

Something I've been floating for a while.  At this point, while I'm all in, there is a touch of desperation to this move at this point in the narrative. 

Still, anything that gets Obi off the three point line, and around the hoop where he can fight for offensive rebounds, is a welcome development. 

That being said, playing Rose 35 + minutes leaves me uneasy, not that DR isn't playing great, but moving him to the first unit has taken the knees out from under the second unit....

PS: If we are going to deploy Frank, for goodness sake, 30 seconds at the end of each half is ridiculous.  Toss him in the deep end.  If nothing else, six fouls to give. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on June 01, 2021, 08:10:24 PM
https://twitter.com/shwinnypooh/status/1399733382905479171?s=20 (https://twitter.com/shwinnypooh/status/1399733382905479171?s=20)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 01, 2021, 09:14:50 PM
That being said, playing Rose 35 + minutes leaves me uneasy, not that DR isn't playing great, but moving him to the first unit has taken the knees out from under the second unit....


Heh

No shit
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 01, 2021, 09:20:12 PM
Nice to see Jabari Parker working out for the Celts

13-20
2-4
6-8
for the series
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 01, 2021, 10:00:43 PM
Well...the NBA is spared Kyrie going back to BOS til at least the fall.....

That's great news
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on June 01, 2021, 11:51:32 PM
Fuck Kyrie

He's a fucking asshole

Kyrie created an alternative narrative, then pushed buttons to get one moron to give him the punchline he wanted.

Well played KI.

Title: Fuk Trae and Capella too, for that matter
Post by: carlos123 on June 01, 2021, 11:55:34 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on June 01, 2021, 11:51:32 PM
Fuck Kyrie

He's a fucking asshole

He created a bullshit narrative then worked like hell to find one fucking moron to give him the punchline he needed.

Bank, sorry for your loss.

We will probably feel the same way about Trae and Capella tomorrow.

Well, for once Chamaco Cartero feels the same way as you do. Don't know if that's any consolation.
Title: Re: Fuk Trae and Capella too, for that matter
Post by: bankshot1 on June 02, 2021, 12:52:16 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on June 01, 2021, 11:55:34 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on June 01, 2021, 11:51:32 PM
Fuck Kyrie

He's a fucking asshole

He created a bullshit narrative then worked like hell to find one fucking moron to give him the punchline he needed.

Bank, sorry for your loss.

We will probably feel the same way about Trae and Capella tomorrow.

Well, for once Chamaco Cartero feels the same way as you do. Don't know if that's any consolation.

Carlos-this was a season from hell for the Celts-it was tough to watch. About everything that could go wrong did go wrong. I kept hoping that they would catch a break on health injuries, but nope, they were the walking dead all season. Tonight was like a mercy killing putting them and the fans out of their misery. A mostly joyless season.

Good luck tomorrow in da Gahden
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 02, 2021, 01:18:52 AM
I keep sending Young articles about basketball contributing to male pattern baldness, but so far it doesn’t seem to be having the desired effect.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 02, 2021, 08:47:15 AM
I kept hoping that they would catch a break on health injuries, but nope, they were the walking dead all season.



hahahahaha


Ainge gonna blow it up
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on June 02, 2021, 12:11:33 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on June 02, 2021, 08:47:15 AM
I kept hoping that they would catch a break on health injuries, but nope, they were the walking dead all season.



hahahahaha


Ainge gonna blow it up

Wrong again kid.

It will be interesting how Brad addresses the Celtics issues.

IMO he's smart and attuned to the current NBA.

I think he's a decent long-term fix plus he's a lot younger than Ainge.

But I'm glad you've retained your sense of humor and can muster a laugh with all the pain you've suffered.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 02, 2021, 12:28:30 PM
Wrong again kid.


You're right

He blew HIMSELF up

heh


Loved Ainge as a player
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 02, 2021, 12:29:54 PM
Celtics being killed on ESPN over elevating Stevens
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on June 02, 2021, 12:34:05 PM
Ainge only did GMing for 18 years.

And met with a lot of success.

And with some half-decent luck would have had more

For all sorts of reasons he and the Celts decided to move to their next respective phases.

Brad is a very talented guy so hopefully the transition will be successful.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 02, 2021, 05:39:31 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on June 02, 2021, 12:34:05 PM
Ainge only did GMing for 18 years.

And met with a lot of success.

And with some half-decent luck would have had more

For all sorts of reasons he and the Celts decided to move to their next respective phases.

Brad is a very talented guy so hopefully the transition will be successful.

Danny had a great stint, but his luck finally ran out.

Hey even Red Auerbach had a run of karma, where Len Bias and Reggie Lewis left the building. 

Danny built a champion, and had the Celtics in contention year after year, no mean feat. 

But he overplayed his hand, and I was never real keen on how Danny and the Celtics were less than honest with Isaiah Thomas, who left it all on the floor for the Celtics franchise, and should probably have not been out on the court, when they were not completely forthcoming as to the ramifications of his injury, which pretty much cost him his career, and the thanks he got was that he was cashiered along with draft assets plus Avery Bradley, Jae Crowder and Kelly Oleynk [who all bled Celtic Green] in the pursuit of Kyrie Irving.  And his all-in pursuit of Gordon Hayward and Kemba Walker blew up in his face. 

Still, his sense of vision in pursuing Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown, when many, including the Prophet Kiid surely felt he overvalued them (and who mocked Ainge incessantly for passing on Fultz and Ball, before rewriting history with a Geek Chorus of I told you Tatum would be a stud).  And his heist of Billy King and the Nyets was epic on a Hershel Walker level of thievery. 

PS: I tell you what, trade handicappers and Kendrick Perkins have been beating the bushes as to how Marcus Smart should go or must go or is a valuable trading chip.  HUH?  Save for the fact that the Celtics would never do a deal with the Knicks, speaking only for myself, I'd be glad to take Smart off of your hands if indeed he has overstayed his welcome.  I mean, Thibs would allow Brad to rectally penetrate him for Smart, without even the common decency of a reach around. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on June 02, 2021, 06:07:58 PM
Chip



But he overplayed his hand, and I was never real keen on how Danny and the Celtics were less than honest with Isaiah Thomas, who left it all on the floor for the Celtics franchise, and should probably have not been out on the court, when they were not completely forthcoming as to the ramifications of his injury, which pretty much cost him his career, and the thanks he got was that he was cashiered along with draft assets plus Avery Bradley, Jae Crowder and Kelly Oleynk [who all bled Celtic Green] in the pursuit of Kyrie Irving.  And his all-in pursuit of Gordon Hayward and Kemba Walker blew up in his face.


IT wanted "the Brinks truck" and get paid like a super-star, and it was pretty obvious and I remember posting here, the Celts will never win a championship if IT is the man, and the man getting paid the max. And then he got hurt, and everybody knew it. The Cavs checked him out and got an additional #2nd rounder in the Kyrie trade. Did Danny know more than he let on, probably, but there was no role for IT with KI coming on board. And KI forced his way out of Cleveland and the Celts had the assets to do it. It seemed like a no-brainer steal at the time, except no one knew how big an asshole KI was.

And without going through all the trade details, KO was not a front line guy and with Horford and Tatum and Hayward, he was going to be a 2nd stringer and he got paid in Miami. Good guy, Crowder was a good role player under a good contract and he was part of the Kyrie trade. The problem was Kyrie, he was an asshole, got hurt, and figured out that maybe with Jason and Jaylen maybe he wasn't going to be the alpha, and he bailed out. He wasn't an alpha or a leader. He had an alpha in LeBron and found another with with KD.

Hayward-the assumption was that he and Brad were BFFs and then he got hurt 5 fucking minutes into his Celtics career and he never really got healthy in Boston.

Kemba? He was an AS guard last year, then the shit hit the fan and he could barely walk.

I'm almost positive if Gordo was close to 100% last year, or Kemba was close to 100% we would have had a Celts-Lakers finals last year.


Then they trade Theis (I liked Theis) for Fournier for some offense at the trade deadline, and then Fournier misses the next 3 weeks to covid.

Danny had shit for luck the last 4 years, but he still engineered a team that made the ECF 3 of the last 5 years.

With some luck, maybe a couple of Finals, with a lotta luck...

Good luck tonight against the Hawks
 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on June 02, 2021, 06:30:25 PM
They may trade Smart as part of a retool, he had an off year, and IMO he tried to do more than he could, but judging anyone off this fucking year is probably a mistake. Marcus is an acquired taste and a unique player, but he plays his heart out. I hope Brad keeps him.

They need a full time PG, to initiate flow and ball movement as too often the O is stagnant And if he can hit the 3 35-38% of the time that would be nice too. Not an AS, but just a guy who can facilitate and play D. Hoping Tatum goes off for 40+ is fun, but its not generally winning basketball. Defense, transition, ball movement and now at least 3 guys who can bury 3s or take it hard to the hoop for the old school 3. 
Title: Danny Boy
Post by: chipstern on June 02, 2021, 06:38:08 PM
Points taken. 

Still, Brother Ainge was a victim of the GRASS ALWAYS GREENER SYNDROME, was he not. 

I mean, Terry Rozier did not require the Brinks Truck, while Kemba did.  Rozier just turned 27, and has emerged as solid combo guard for the Hornets at 17.9 for the final year of his contract next season...excellent three point shooter and FT converter.  I believe he might have been on the Knicks radar at some point.  Plus, as per a persistent them vis a vis Danny, loyal soldiers get cashed in when shiny objects are available. 

I LOVE Kemba.  Great competitor.  But he just turned 31, has been gimpy going forward, and is due 36 & 37 million over the next two seasons  Unless the Celtics are willing to append multiple draft assets, and some young players, their chances of offloading him seem....REMOTE. 

As per the bad luck of Hayward, I always thought extending him a MAX Out was curious, as talented as he very well may be, as his position on the floor seemed to overlap with BOTH Tatum and Brown. 

But what do I know. 

Did not have a dog in the hunt, vis a vis, Celtics/Nyets, but I guess it is fair to say I was rooting for the Celtics.  I love Tatum, and did he ever man up in the Celtics victory on their home court. 

As for Irving being an asshole, well, at times he projects profoundly assaholic tendencies, at other times, he seems to be a very spiritual cat.  Confounding.  Particularly when his jumper is falling.  Those Knicks fans chanting about bring on the Nets?  Seeming kind of remote now, does it not, and if we cannot match up with the Hawks, well....sheeeeeeet. 

And as for Boston being a cracker town, well, maybe not like they once were, but I'm old enough to recall the viciousness of the school busing riots, and how profoundly disrespected Bill Russell was [someone pillaged his home, for moving into a "white" nabe, and defecated in his bed, in case he missed the point] and all Mister Bill ever did WAS WIN. 

So, I do not think we can completely dismiss the overtones of racism Kyrie may or may not have felt radiating throughout the town and the arena.  But hey, considering how the Celtics committed to him, embraced his talent, and the assets the surrendered for him, yeah, asshole. 

Anyway, like I said, points taken. 

And thanks for the go get 'em tonight.  We are not just playing for the here and now, but for 2021-2022 and beyond.  Sometimes you need to get punked before you can make that next step.  Hey, LeBron and Wade and Bosh got punked by Dirk and company, not that we are in that class of talent.  Just saying. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 02, 2021, 06:51:49 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on June 02, 2021, 06:30:25 PM
They may trade Smart as part of a retool, he had an off year, and IMO he tried to do more than he could, but judging anyone off this fucking year is probably a mistake. Marcus is an acquired taste and a unique player, but he plays his heart out. I hope Brad keeps him.

They need a full time PG, to initiate flow and ball movement as too often the O is stagnant And if he can hit the 3 35-38% of the time that would be nice too. Not an AS, but just a guy who can facilitate and play D. Hoping Tatum goes off for 40+ is fun, but its not generally winning basketball. Defense, transition, ball movement and now at least 3 guys who can bury 3s or take it hard to the hoop for the old school 3.

You and US both. 

Going forward I would love for Rose to remain a Knick, but coming off the bench as an energizer bunny, instant offense, third man. 

We need to develop a young facilitator, a la Jae and Trae, least ways, something more athletic and consistent on both ends of the court. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on June 02, 2021, 07:08:55 PM
I agree about Rozier, he might have been that guy I described, a solid PG, but he wanted out and a place where he could shine on his own. And the Celts thought they were getting a KI replacement w/Kemba.

I posted elsewhere about the mid 70s Boston school deseg/bussing issue and the black guy getting attacked with the US flag. That image set the narrative. Didn't matter that Mass had a black senator, or never had race riots when other big cities did, but that image of the black guy getting attacked stuck in people's mind.

Real story-Remember in Spike Lee's "Do the Right Thing" when the white guy in the Celts Bird jersey has a run-in with a neighborhood black guy. That shit was true. I lived in Brooklyn from 1983-1992, and in the mid 80s the local kids, mostly Italian and Irish kids, all wore Celtics jackets solely due to the team's racial make-up. And this neighborhood was about 1 mile from the Barclay Center.

Boston as a cracker town is bullshit, its just like most cities, except it acts as a target for others to scape goat.

Like KI did.

He changed the narrative from "I was a bullshitter and couldn't deliver what I had promised and quit on the team" to

if Boston boos me its because they're racist and we all know it.

And then he wiped the shit off his shoes on mid-court and provoked one moron to get the punchline he wanted.

It was an asshole move. 

By an asshole

just my 2 scents

again good luck tonight

Title: Cracker Town
Post by: chipstern on June 02, 2021, 07:11:16 PM
I defer to your experience. 

However...I have two words for you in passing. 

PUMPSIE GREEN. 
Title: Re: Cracker Town
Post by: bankshot1 on June 02, 2021, 07:21:24 PM
Quote from: chipstern on June 02, 2021, 07:11:16 PM
I defer to your experience. 

However...I have two words for you in passing. 

PUMPSIE GREEN.

I have two more words: Sam Jethroe

Boston had two teams, the Braves were about the 4th MLB team to integrate and signed Jethro I think for the 1950 season.

They were owned by a local guy-Lou Perini, made his dough in construction

Sox were owned by Tom Yawkey a South Carolinian.

Who was a racist.

the moron passed on Jackie Robinson and Willie Mays

Fucking racist moron

But Boston baseball was integrated as of 1950, before most other MLB cities.

Bruins were the first NHL team with a black player (Willie O'Ree)

Celts the first NBA team to draft a black player, start an all-black five, and have a black head coach

but Pumpsie Green!

and Ed Brooke (google him)



Title: Re: Cracker Town
Post by: chipstern on June 02, 2021, 07:31:44 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on June 02, 2021, 07:21:24 PM
Quote from: chipstern on June 02, 2021, 07:11:16 PM
I defer to your experience. 

However...I have two words for you in passing. 

PUMPSIE GREEN.

I have two more words: Sam Jethroe

Boston had two teams, the Braves were the about the 4th MLB team to integrate and signed Jethro I think for the 1950 season.

They were owned by a local guy-Lou Perini, made his dough in construction

Sox were owned by Tom Yawkey a South Carolinian.

Who was a racist.

But Boston baseball was integrated as of 1950, before most other MLB cities.

Bruins were the first NHL team with a black player (Willie O'Ree)

Celts the first NBA team to draft a black player, start an all-black five, and have a black head coach

but Pumpsie Green!

and Ed Brooke (google him)

Yes, PUMPSIE GREEN.  And of course, Jackie and Willie.  AND WILLIE.  Talk about what might have been. 

1959

Jackie 1947. 

Poor Ted Williams.  For that matter, poor Stan Musial. 

Meanwhile, the Braves moved to Milwaukee and proceeded to win the World Series in 1957 with Henry Aaron and Wes Covington [from Dizzy Gillespie's home town] and Bill Bruton. 

And not to cop a 'tude, but while the Dodgers and Giants were ahead of the bell curve, the Yankees didn't have a black ball player until Elston Howard in 1955, and he didn't have any brothers for a number of years. 

About Elston, Casey was alleged to have opined with old world sensitivity, "We finally get one, and he can't run." 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on June 02, 2021, 07:52:29 PM
As we've discovered Chip, Pumpsie Green unfortunately has become a symbol of racism for a city, which may or may not be wholly deserved. Boston has racists like every city in this country, and Tom Yawkey was clearly a racist. But Pumpsie Green became a convenient punch line for people to demonize Boston and forget about sins closer to home. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 02, 2021, 07:57:37 PM
The move to Rose as starter has SUCKED BALLS.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 02, 2021, 08:50:41 PM
I’d put Pelle in to start the second half. Have him head rub Capella till he picks up six fouls or they fight.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on June 02, 2021, 09:50:58 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on June 02, 2021, 07:08:55 PM
I posted elsewhere about the mid 70s Boston school deseg/bussing issue and the black guy getting attacked with the US flag. That image set the narrative. Didn't matter that Mass had a black senator, or never had race riots when other big cities did, but that image of the black guy getting attacked stuck in people's mind.

Real story-Remember in Spike Lee's "Do the Right Thing" when the white guy in the Celts Bird jersey has a run-in with a neighborhood black guy. That shit was true. I lived in Brooklyn from 1983-1992, and in the mid 80s the local kids, mostly Italian and Irish kids, all wore Celtics jackets solely due to the team's racial make-up. And this neighborhood was about 1 mile from the Barclay Center.

Boston as a cracker town is bullshit, its just like most cities, except it acts as a target for others to scape goat.

Like KI did.

He changed the narrative from "I was a bullshitter and couldn't deliver what I had promised and quit on the team" to

if Boston boos me its because they're racist and we all know it.

And then he wiped the shit off his shoes on mid-court and provoked one moron to get the punchline he wanted.

Boston as a cracker town is bull shit... C'mon Banks...Boston has a particularly nasty racist past...

just because all of America is racist, doesn't absolve Boston from it's racism or being called out for its racism - by KI or anyone else....Boston is racist.  More or less than any number of other cities, but clearly racist.  Southie and bussing were very extreme , the Charles Stewart case happened in Boston in the 80's....that absolutely distinguishes Boston and not in a good way... 

and as for someone stepping on an image on basketball court...at some point we have to start acting like adults - I mean really?  ....who the fuck cares.....

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Hamilton Samuels on June 02, 2021, 10:12:43 PM
Knicks SPIT the bit.

They had high expectoration. Their fans were salivating with anticipation of a playoff advance.

Now, they have to swallow defeat.


Told you the fans would cost them the series.

Heh




Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 02, 2021, 10:17:52 PM
Quote from: Hamilton Samuels on June 02, 2021, 10:12:43 PM
Knicks SPIT the bit.

They had high expectoration. Their fans were salivating with anticipation of a playoff advance.

Now, they have to swallow defeat.


Told you the fans would cost them the series.

Heh

Not Trae and Capella?

You are a moron sniffing your own farts  and depicting them as French perfume.

 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 02, 2021, 10:19:35 PM
I knew we were cooked with seven minutes or so left, when Thibs put the starters in.

Nice fucking job by Nate this year. If they had a different PG, the Hawks would be a team I could root for going forward.

Alec, Reggie, Derrick, and Taj need to come back out of our FA’s. I’d like another look at Frank as well.

Noel, healthy, is a scratch player. Noel hobbling on two bad ankles is a lot for four guys to carry.

Randle, a very very good PF, is not a playoff point forward at this stage. Two paths are either he gets a lot better or we set up a different construction less dependent on him stirring the drink.

I’m happy with RJ’s progress and the taste for our rooks.

A lot of work to do, but this was our best season to watch as a fan since Gallo played for us.

Randle should take the lesser amount we can give him this year instead of waiting for more money. It will give us the chance to build back better and he’ll more than make it up in endorsements if the spare change lets us make moves to get better. Can he play that long a game?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Hamilton Samuels on June 02, 2021, 10:20:25 PM
Quote from: chipstern on June 02, 2021, 10:17:52 PM
Quote from: Hamilton Samuels on June 02, 2021, 10:12:43 PM
Knicks SPIT the bit.

They had high expectoration. Their fans were salivating with anticipation of a playoff advance.

Now, they have to swallow defeat.


Told you the fans would cost them the series.

Heh

Not Trae and Capella?

You are a moron sniffing your own farts  and depicting them as French perfume.

You are a humorless twit.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 02, 2021, 10:24:51 PM
Quote from: Hamilton Samuels on June 02, 2021, 10:20:25 PM
Quote from: chipstern on June 02, 2021, 10:17:52 PM
Quote from: Hamilton Samuels on June 02, 2021, 10:12:43 PM
Knicks SPIT the bit.

They had high expectoration. Their fans were salivating with anticipation of a playoff advance.

Now, they have to swallow defeat.


Told you the fans would cost them the series.

Heh

Not Trae and Capella?

You are a moron sniffing your own farts  and depicting them as French perfume.

You are a humorless twit.

You need a taco and your face rubbed on some cement. Everything else you need I blame on your mother. Run off and go find your nightly bag of dicks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 02, 2021, 10:29:01 PM
Quote from: Hamilton Samuels on June 02, 2021, 10:20:25 PM
Quote from: chipstern on June 02, 2021, 10:17:52 PM
Quote from: Hamilton Samuels on June 02, 2021, 10:12:43 PM
Knicks SPIT the bit.

They had high expectoration. Their fans were salivating with anticipation of a playoff advance.

Now, they have to swallow defeat.


Told you the fans would cost them the series.

Heh

Not Trae and Capella?

You are a moron sniffing your own farts  and depicting them as French perfume.

You are a humorless twit.

Wow, what a comeback.

You are a dickless dwarf and a feral sneering midget.

The better team won, genius.

Return to the Rock you crawled out from under. 
Title: Philly
Post by: chipstern on June 02, 2021, 10:33:38 PM
Congrats to the HAWKS and Coach Nate.

Sixers have their work cut out for themselves.

Hope Embid can play and bring his A game.

Meanwhile...

The Knicks are relevant again. 

Next steps forward.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on June 02, 2021, 10:52:17 PM
The season for most teams never ends with a W

But you guys had a season which holds a lot of promise for the future

and the Knicks played meaningful games a lot longer than even the most optimistic fan here thought possible before the season began.

Except for kid he'll claim he has a ticket on the Knicks going out in 5 in the 1st round

congrats on good season
Title: You should be a Knicks fan
Post by: carlos123 on June 02, 2021, 11:01:06 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on June 02, 2021, 10:52:17 PM
The season for most teams never ends with a W

But you guys had a season which holds a lot of promise for the future

and the Knicks played meaningful games a lot longer than even the most optimistic fan here thought possible before the season began.

Except for kid Chamaco he'll claim he has a ticket on the Knicks going out in 5 in the 1st round

congrats on good season

Thanks Bank, you’re a good guy and I for one appreciate your congrats.

Your only fault, really, is that you’re not a Knicks fan.

Can’t have it all, I guess...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 02, 2021, 11:32:06 PM
Great season.  Get em next year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on June 02, 2021, 11:39:24 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on June 02, 2021, 07:57:37 PM
The move to Rose as starter has SUCKED BALLS.

lol, lol, of course you say that, still pining to hump Elf's dead booty with your flaccid little stubby....that was Thibs only good move this series

*Nate to Julius, I got 8 looks for you. Thibs to Trae: Meet Reggie, your date for the next 5 games.


*Ok, Ok, I forgot about upping the minute basket for OBI, nice stuff that


Thibs got his ass handed to him on a plate by Nate

matters not that much...though slightly disturbing, Hawks easily the better team right now and deserved the series.

Fine season for us, so much to build on, and we learned a lot of useful things about our players, though not everything we hoped to learn.


* like yeah, kinda guessed it, Julius ain't an A man or even a B man barring future unexpected leaps, but could make a damn fine C man
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 03, 2021, 12:15:27 AM
But you guys had a season which holds a lot of promise for the future

Lots of fucking questions

But hey, we have a coach.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on June 03, 2021, 12:37:11 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on June 03, 2021, 12:15:27 AM
But you guys had a season which holds a lot of promise for the future

Lots of fucking questions

But hey, we have a coach.

Brad's gonna have a helluva time finding someone who wants that job.

Sam Cassell seems to be the current favorite
Title: Re: You should be a Knicks fan
Post by: facilitatorn on June 03, 2021, 12:53:11 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on June 02, 2021, 11:01:06 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on June 02, 2021, 10:52:17 PM
The season for most teams never ends with a W

But you guys had a season which holds a lot of promise for the future

and the Knicks played meaningful games a lot longer than even the most optimistic fan here thought possible before the season began.

Except for kid Chamaco he'll claim he has a ticket on the Knicks going out in 5 in the 1st round

congrats on good season

Thanks Bank, you’re a good guy and I for one appreciate your congrats.

Your only fault, really, is that you’re not a Knicks fan.

Can’t have it all, I guess...

Aw, you guys...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on June 03, 2021, 01:06:43 AM
Kid made a good point re coachs



So I decided to investigate

Since 2004 the Knicks have had an easy time finding head coaches and have had 13 head coaches.

13 coaches in 17 years.

The Celts just two since 2004,  Doc and Brad

Knicks are kicking ass in the coach hiring game.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 03, 2021, 02:14:40 AM
We never should have let Thibs go join Doc’s bench. It’s a long and winding road.

How much do the Celts have already committed in salary next year?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 03, 2021, 02:20:09 AM
It’s going to be easy rooting for the Sixers & Bucks going forward this postseason.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Hamilton Samuels on June 03, 2021, 07:04:44 AM
Quote from: chipstern on June 02, 2021, 10:29:01 PM
Quote from: Hamilton Samuels on June 02, 2021, 10:20:25 PM
Quote from: chipstern on June 02, 2021, 10:17:52 PM
Quote from: Hamilton Samuels on June 02, 2021, 10:12:43 PM
Knicks SPIT the bit.

They had high expectoration. Their fans were salivating with anticipation of a playoff advance.

Now, they have to swallow defeat.


Told you the fans would cost them the series.

Heh

Not Trae and Capella?

You are a moron sniffing your own farts  and depicting them as French perfume.

You are a humorless twit.

Wow, what a comeback.

You are a dickless dwarf and a feral sneering midget.

The better team won, genius.

Return to the Rock you crawled out from under.

Thanks for proving my point, loser.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 03, 2021, 07:28:52 AM
Stay home, dick bagger. What is it? Your momma won’t beat you anymore so now you have to go out looking for it?

Wash behind your ears for fucks sake. Jesus is watching you. He says you’re a poltroon.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 03, 2021, 08:27:00 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on June 03, 2021, 12:37:11 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on June 03, 2021, 12:15:27 AM
But you guys had a season which holds a lot of promise for the future

Lots of fucking questions

But hey, we have a coach.

Brad's gonna have a helluva time finding someone who wants that job.

Sam Cassell seems to be the current favorite

Tatum prefers...


EVAN TURNER


Interesting.
Title: Poltroon
Post by: chipstern on June 03, 2021, 10:38:40 AM
Word, Facil.

Art imitating life?

Or

Fart emulating  strife.

(https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1387730864l/19776448.jpg)

A poltroon?

Verily, a mountebank. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on June 03, 2021, 10:57:54 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 03, 2021, 02:20:09 AM
It’s going to be easy rooting for the Sixers & Bucks going forward this postseason.

Lakers and 76ers lead my NBA hate list, so the Under-Hawks and Bucks are my easy team to root for in the East.

Bucks-Nets should be a great series.

As to the Celts salary cap issues, they are well over the cap, but IMO the real issue for Brad is how to deal with Kemba and his contract for the next 2 years (owed about $75 M) and whether he's tradeable or how much it will cost to trade him.

I think a lot of other moves (Smart, Fournier, draft, FA) may depend on his assessment of Kemba.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 03, 2021, 12:39:32 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on June 03, 2021, 10:57:54 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 03, 2021, 02:20:09 AM
It’s going to be easy rooting for the Sixers & Bucks going forward this postseason.

Lakers and 76ers lead my NBA hate list, so the Under-Hawks and Bucks are my easy team to root for in the East.

Bucks-Nets should be a great series.

As to the Celts salary cap issues, they are well over the cap, but IMO the real issue for Brad is how to deal with Kemba and his contract for the next 2 years (owed about $75 M) and whether he's tradeable or how much it will cost to trade him.

I think a lot of other moves (Smart, Fournier, draft, FA) may depend on his assessment of Kemba.

Ainge has stockpiled a fair number of second round picks over the next few years, but the torrent of #1 picks has run dry, save for their own. 

Stevens has his work cut out for him if he is looking to offload Kemba. 

What incentive could the Celtics proffer to get someone to absorb a $36 & $37 million cap hit over the next two seasons? 

Not much flex. 

Kemba played 43 out of 72 games this season.  Effective when he was on the floor. 

Our Knicks need to look long and hard at how they disburse their cap space. 

I mean, I LOVE Kyle Lowry, but those campaigning for us to sign him, as if that is the one player who could put us over the top?

Still an effective defender, shooter and facilitator, but he logged 46 games out of 72 this season, and turned 35 in March. 

We need to be very cautious and prudent. 

We could sure use shooting.

Hey, maybe we could make a run at Timmy Hardaway.  Thrice the charm.  Heh [isn't that what all the kids are saying?]

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on June 03, 2021, 01:04:34 PM
Quote
What incentive could the Celtics proffer to get someone to absorb a $36 & $37 million cap hit over the next two seasons? 

Trade bad contract for bad contract, or staple a young recent #1 (they have a few of those) and/or a future #1 to move Kemba, as it seems improbable that Kemba's knees are going to get better.

Brad has to figure the math, and it might not figure, so he might stay a Celt for 2 more years.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 03, 2021, 01:18:03 PM
Some chatter that a

Horford to Celts

Kemba + to Thunder

May be doable
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 03, 2021, 01:20:08 PM
I mean, I LOVE Kyle Lowry, but those campaigning for us to sign him, as if that is the one player who could put us over the top?


Heh

Heeeeeeere we goooooo...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 03, 2021, 01:23:31 PM
Hey, maybe we could make a run at Timmy Hardaway.  Thrice the charm.  Heh [isn't that what all the kids are saying?]


Doubt very much he leaves Dallas
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 03, 2021, 01:34:38 PM
Quote from: chipstern on June 02, 2021, 10:29:01 PM
Quote from: Hamilton Samuels on June 02, 2021, 10:20:25 PM
Quote from: chipstern on June 02, 2021, 10:17:52 PM
Quote from: Hamilton Samuels on June 02, 2021, 10:12:43 PM
Knicks SPIT the bit.

They had high expectoration. Their fans were salivating with anticipation of a playoff advance.

Now, they have to swallow defeat.


Told you the fans would cost them the series.

Heh

Not Trae and Capella?

You are a moron sniffing your own farts  and depicting them as French perfume.

You are a humorless twit.

Wow, what a comeback.

You are a dickless dwarf and a feral sneering midget.

The better team won, genius.

Return to the Rock you crawled out from under.

The team that PLAYED better won - as WE did in 10 of 11 prior playoff games vs Hawks and all three reg season games vs that team this year.

To dismiss this as "we are not as good as them" is foolishness
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on June 03, 2021, 01:36:46 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on June 03, 2021, 01:18:03 PM
Some chatter that a

Horford to Celts

Kemba + to Thunder

May be doable

I've seen that one kicked around and it passes the trade machine and it might be doable, depending what OKC wants as a kicker.
Title: Re: Knicks Fans Cost Their Team, As Predicted
Post by: Hamilton Samuels on June 03, 2021, 04:02:55 PM
Quote from: Hamilton Samuels on May 27, 2021, 05:17:14 PM
The Knicks will lose this series. And the fans will be to blame.


In the final minute of Game 5, Young sized up Knicks forward Reggie Bullock, waved off his teammate John Collins and went to work. The shot clock ticked down, and Young took a few dribbles to his left. One in-between-the-legs move later, he lifted from 30 feet away and hit a 3-pointer to quiet the crowd.

 

As soon as the shot went in, Young took a bow at center court and waved goodbye to the crowd that had taunted him throughout this Eastern Conference first-round playoff series.

"I know where we are. I know it's a bunch of shows around this city," Young said of the bow after the Hawks' 103-89 victory. "And I know what they do when the show is over."

It was Young who got the last laugh on Wednesday, as the Hawks eliminated the Knicks in five games. The series started with Knicks fans chanting "F--- Trae Young," and one fan even spit on Young during Game 2.

But when all was said and done, Young and the Hawks moved on to the second round, and Young cemented his status as a Madison Square Garden villain.

 

 
"It feels good," Young said. "Like I said since the beginning of the season, I feel like I've worked my whole life for this moment, to play in the playoffs on the biggest stage. I put in a lot of work. A lot of the guys who have been here have done the same. It feels good to win it. It feels good to win the series. Now, we get to focus on the second round."

Young explained it would have been a sweet victory whether the Hawks prevailed at home or on the road but that winning in New York City -- "with all the fans still chanting the same stuff" -- felt good too.

Collins, who has been Young's teammate for three seasons with Atlanta, said Young feeds off the trash talk from the crowd.

"Trae loves this stuff," Collins said. "He's in the gym grinding.  You see him pandering and playing to the crowd. Certain guys get motivated and find their reason and extra motivation to play based off the crowd. The crowd does give you energy.
 
"Trae loves to use that negative energy and use it as fuel for him. For whatever fans who want to keep antagonizing that man, please go right ahead. It's not gonna bother him, and we got his back, as well."

Young backed up his talk with his play. He finished with 36 points and nine assists in Game 5, and he averaged 29.2 points and 9.8 assists per game for the series. He also hit the winner in Game 1 to get the series started.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/31557376/trae-young-takes-bow-atlanta-hawks-finish-new-york-knicks-know-do-show-over (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/31557376/trae-young-takes-bow-atlanta-hawks-finish-new-york-knicks-know-do-show-over)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 03, 2021, 04:09:42 PM
You can see the difference between a Trae Young and a Barrett.

RJs dad - God bless him - had him playing with grown men in the summers in NYC.  An atmosphere that was not conducive to leading, more to surviving and being a good soldier

Have to pull that out of Barrett now.  Year 2 was better.  Now the big step should come.

I actually think dealing Julius unleashes Barrett a little.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on June 03, 2021, 04:39:41 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on June 03, 2021, 01:34:38 PM
Quote from: chipstern on June 02, 2021, 10:29:01 PM

The better team won, genius.


The team that PLAYED better won - as WE did in 10 of 11 prior playoff games vs Hawks and all three reg season games vs that team this year.

To dismiss this as "we are not as good as them" is foolishness

Chamaco, I answered you predictably silly point way ahead of time, just after game 4, like this:

Quote from: carlos123 on May 30, 2021, 08:28:10 PM
I'm afraid they just have more talent than we do.

They were never whole during the season, and now they are.

Barring a miracle come-back, we had a wonderful run which ends with Atlanta this year.

Now, repeat with me:

Atlanta has more talent.

They're just a better team.

Or, to quote you, "we are not as good as them". No foolishness.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 03, 2021, 05:20:03 PM
Centers win playoff series if they establish dominance over the other team’s bigs. Clint did just that.

Dwight v. Capella in round two is the guts of the series if Embid remains unavailable. If Embid becomes available, Clint will be as effective as Nerlins and Taj were against him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 03, 2021, 07:11:08 PM
Here are the tabs we hold or can choose to pick up going into next year

Robinson Pelle
Randle Toppin
Knox
Barrett Quickley
Viladosa

There are negotiations in order for Jules and Mitch, but I trust Leon there to get it done and not break us in the process.

We have a ton of cash and assets in terms of current and future picks. The top priority should be a killer wing or two, then a killer guard or two.
Title: Re: Knicks Fans Cost Their Team, As Predicted
Post by: elephant on June 04, 2021, 01:37:46 AM
Quote from: Hamilton Samuels on June 03, 2021, 04:02:55 PM
Quote from: Hamilton Samuels on May 27, 2021, 05:17:14 PM
The Knicks will lose this series. And the fans will be to blame.


In the final minute of Game 5, Young sized up Knicks forward Reggie Bullock, waved off his teammate John Collins and went to work. The shot clock ticked down, and Young took a few dribbles to his left. One in-between-the-legs move later, he lifted from 30 feet away and hit a 3-pointer to quiet the crowd.

 

As soon as the shot went in, Young took a bow at center court and waved goodbye to the crowd that had taunted him throughout this Eastern Conference first-round playoff series.

"I know where we are. I know it's a bunch of shows around this city," Young said of the bow after the Hawks' 103-89 victory. "And I know what they do when the show is over."

It was Young who got the last laugh on Wednesday, as the Hawks eliminated the Knicks in five games. The series started with Knicks fans chanting "F--- Trae Young," and one fan even spit on Young during Game 2.

But when all was said and done, Young and the Hawks moved on to the second round, and Young cemented his status as a Madison Square Garden villain.

 

 
"It feels good," Young said. "Like I said since the beginning of the season, I feel like I've worked my whole life for this moment, to play in the playoffs on the biggest stage. I put in a lot of work. A lot of the guys who have been here have done the same. It feels good to win it. It feels good to win the series. Now, we get to focus on the second round."

Young explained it would have been a sweet victory whether the Hawks prevailed at home or on the road but that winning in New York City -- "with all the fans still chanting the same stuff" -- felt good too.

Collins, who has been Young's teammate for three seasons with Atlanta, said Young feeds off the trash talk from the crowd.

"Trae loves this stuff," Collins said. "He's in the gym grinding.  You see him pandering and playing to the crowd. Certain guys get motivated and find their reason and extra motivation to play based off the crowd. The crowd does give you energy.
 
"Trae loves to use that negative energy and use it as fuel for him. For whatever fans who want to keep antagonizing that man, please go right ahead. It's not gonna bother him, and we got his back, as well."

Young backed up his talk with his play. He finished with 36 points and nine assists in Game 5, and he averaged 29.2 points and 9.8 assists per game for the series. He also hit the winner in Game 1 to get the series started.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/31557376/trae-young-takes-bow-atlanta-hawks-finish-new-york-knicks-know-do-show-over (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/31557376/trae-young-takes-bow-atlanta-hawks-finish-new-york-knicks-know-do-show-over)

You, sir, are a tedious motherfucker.

If we all say that the Knicks lost because of the fans, and you're a genius, will you go away?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 04, 2021, 01:50:33 AM
He’s as persistent as his own herpes. Mental illness works that way sometimes.

Among FAs the most interesting guards are Paul, Lonzo, and THT.

Among wings it looks like Klaw, Otto Porter, Fornier, Rudy Gay, and Batum.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 04, 2021, 05:37:06 AM
Bouknight , Duarte, and Bassey are the three I like out of the draft, though we’d either have to get lucky or make some moves to get them.

Mitch Pelle Bassey
Randle Obi Taj
Porter Burks Duarte
RJ Bouknight Quickley
Rose Lonzo Viladosa

I’d be fine with that as the 2022 Knicks.
Title: Re: Knicks Fans Cost Their Team, As Predicted
Post by: Hamilton Samuels on June 04, 2021, 07:18:08 AM
Quote from: elephant on June 04, 2021, 01:37:46 AM
Quote from: Hamilton Samuels on June 03, 2021, 04:02:55 PM
Quote from: Hamilton Samuels on May 27, 2021, 05:17:14 PM
The Knicks will lose this series. And the fans will be to blame.


In the final minute of Game 5, Young sized up Knicks forward Reggie Bullock, waved off his teammate John Collins and went to work. The shot clock ticked down, and Young took a few dribbles to his left. One in-between-the-legs move later, he lifted from 30 feet away and hit a 3-pointer to quiet the crowd.

 

As soon as the shot went in, Young took a bow at center court and waved goodbye to the crowd that had taunted him throughout this Eastern Conference first-round playoff series.

"I know where we are. I know it's a bunch of shows around this city," Young said of the bow after the Hawks' 103-89 victory. "And I know what they do when the show is over."

It was Young who got the last laugh on Wednesday, as the Hawks eliminated the Knicks in five games. The series started with Knicks fans chanting "F--- Trae Young," and one fan even spit on Young during Game 2.

But when all was said and done, Young and the Hawks moved on to the second round, and Young cemented his status as a Madison Square Garden villain.

 

 
"It feels good," Young said. "Like I said since the beginning of the season, I feel like I've worked my whole life for this moment, to play in the playoffs on the biggest stage. I put in a lot of work. A lot of the guys who have been here have done the same. It feels good to win it. It feels good to win the series. Now, we get to focus on the second round."

Young explained it would have been a sweet victory whether the Hawks prevailed at home or on the road but that winning in New York City -- "with all the fans still chanting the same stuff" -- felt good too.

Collins, who has been Young's teammate for three seasons with Atlanta, said Young feeds off the trash talk from the crowd.

"Trae loves this stuff," Collins said. "He's in the gym grinding.  You see him pandering and playing to the crowd. Certain guys get motivated and find their reason and extra motivation to play based off the crowd. The crowd does give you energy.
 
"Trae loves to use that negative energy and use it as fuel for him. For whatever fans who want to keep antagonizing that man, please go right ahead. It's not gonna bother him, and we got his back, as well."

Young backed up his talk with his play. He finished with 36 points and nine assists in Game 5, and he averaged 29.2 points and 9.8 assists per game for the series. He also hit the winner in Game 1 to get the series started.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/31557376/trae-young-takes-bow-atlanta-hawks-finish-new-york-knicks-know-do-show-over (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/31557376/trae-young-takes-bow-atlanta-hawks-finish-new-york-knicks-know-do-show-over)

You, sir, are a tedious motherfucker.

If we all say that the Knicks lost because of the fans, and you're a genius, will you go away?

Someone should warn you.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on June 04, 2021, 01:25:20 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on June 03, 2021, 04:09:42 PM
You can see the difference between a Trae Young and a Barrett.

RJs dad - God bless him - had him playing with grown men in the summers in NYC.  An atmosphere that was not conducive to leading, more to surviving and being a good soldier

Have to pull that out of Barrett now.  Year 2 was better.  Now the big step should come.

I actually think dealing Julius unleashes Barrett a little.

This is an interesting take.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on June 04, 2021, 01:54:28 PM
Quote from: elephant on June 04, 2021, 01:25:20 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on June 03, 2021, 04:09:42 PM
You can see the difference between a Trae Young and a Barrett.

RJs dad - God bless him - had him playing with grown men in the summers in NYC.  An atmosphere that was not conducive to leading, more to surviving and being a good soldier

Have to pull that out of Barrett now.  Year 2 was better.  Now the big step should come.

I actually think dealing Julius unleashes Barrett a little.

This is an interesting take.

Yes it is. I'm not sure it's correct or incorrect.
To me, they are very different NOT comparable players, and the major difference in their development paths would seem to be age.


Trae is 22. RJ is 20. Trae shot .418 as a 20 year old, .438 two years later. RJ moving from .402 as a 19 year old to .441 as a 20 year old.

But we are not looking for RJ to become Trae, more DeRozan maybe or Butler. Butler, by the way, didn't really become Butler until about age 25 or 26.

No Julius might hasten the development of RJ's stats, but I'm not sure his development as a basketball player. No hurry as long as he stays on track, it's been a fine, fine growth curve so far.


*** Bernard by the way, became Bernard, by playing with grown men while not yet grown so I'm a little skeptical of this produces good soldiers not leaders theory.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on June 04, 2021, 02:36:50 PM
Trading Julius would be insane. Knicks need another bigman to give him help inside. Not the beginning of the end but the end of the beginning. No need to panic like the last time the team made the play-offs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 04, 2021, 02:37:19 PM
Kiid doesn’t ball so he’s out of his depth in this discussion.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 04, 2021, 02:37:57 PM
Quote from: luee on June 04, 2021, 02:36:50 PM
Trading Julius would be insane. Knicks need another bigman to give him help inside. Not the beginning of the end but the end of the beginning. No need to panic like the last time the team made the play-offs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 04, 2021, 09:53:26 PM
RIVERS

Now HARDAWAY

Too f-in funny
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: LarryBnDC on June 05, 2021, 09:43:30 PM
I didn’t get the opportunity to watch as much as I would have liked in the series but I like what I saw down the stretch of the regular season.

I liked what saw of Julius but not convinced he’s a number one but I sure as hell wouldn’t think of trading him unless some kind of once 8n a lifetime can’t pass it up offer comes through.

I don’t see that in the realm of possibility.

What I did see in this team was a positive change in attitude and that puts in a place we’re big guns are wanna come to 5he Mecca.

This was the first time in a loooong time I paid for the extra sports package to watch this franchise.

I’m satisfied with this season and look forward to see what Leon Rose and Thibs put on the floor next season.

Long time no see, fellas.

The guy formerly known as NYKnicks12
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 05, 2021, 10:57:48 PM
Quote from: LarryBnDC on June 05, 2021, 09:43:30 PM
I didn’t get the opportunity to watch as much as I would have liked in the series but I like what I saw down the stretch of the regular season.

I liked what saw of Julius but not convinced he’s a number one but I sure as hell wouldn’t think of trading him unless some kind of once 8n a lifetime can’t pass it up offer comes through.

I don’t see that in the realm of possibility.

What I did see in this team was a positive change in attitude and that puts in a place we’re big guns are wanna come to 5he Mecca.

This was the first time in a loooong time I paid for the extra sports package to watch this franchise.

I’m satisfied with this season and look forward to see what Leon Rose and Thibs put on the floor next season.

Long time no see, fellas.

The guy formerly known as NYKnicks12

(https://i.gifer.com/97Ta.gif)

Welcome back....
Title: Postscript
Post by: chipstern on June 06, 2021, 11:37:34 AM
(https://render.fineartamerica.com/images/rendered/default/print/8/7/break/images/artworkimages/medium/1/the-burr-hamilton-duel-henry-alexander-ogden.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9Kc7fAUAAAiZYX.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/8140/10227056515_8cb331b0c9.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 06, 2021, 12:48:57 PM
Welcome back, Larry. I hope we keep the good times rolling. There are a number of big wings and snipers available in this draft & we have a boatload of cash for free agents.

Build back better, Leon.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 06, 2021, 01:30:51 PM
Looks like Doc's got to do some coaching...

Trae Young 5-7, 2-4 first quarter
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 06, 2021, 01:32:55 PM
Picking Philly and Nets

Picking the winner of today's Game 7 over Jazz

Picking Suns over Denver
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Hamilton Samuels on June 06, 2021, 04:54:31 PM
Thanks, kid. I was wondering why the Sixers had such a terrible first half. YOU bet on them.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 06, 2021, 05:50:53 PM
Luke....



KEN-NARD!!!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on June 06, 2021, 06:48:54 PM
The under-Hawks looked like a middle-school recc team facing a press for the first time.

But they hung on.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 06, 2021, 08:41:26 PM
Timmy came up huge for the Clippers. Maybe they will sign him next year…
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on June 06, 2021, 09:01:07 PM
Zingus and Hardaway a combined 1 for 14 in threes today.

Damn!
Title: Dallas Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on June 06, 2021, 09:08:13 PM
Quote from: elephant on June 06, 2021, 09:01:07 PM
Zingus and Hardaway a combined 1 for 14 in threes today.

Damn!

Ain't you glad it's their problem and not ours?

Like the Kamster says, KP tosses salads in Dallas.

By the way, Chamaco disagrees (see below). Thinks we should re-acquire Timmy. Whatever he "thinks" it's a good bet to do the opposite.

Quote from: chamacocartero8 on June 04, 2021, 09:53:26 PM
RIVERS

Now HARDAWAY

Too f-in funny
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on June 06, 2021, 09:33:04 PM
I do not miss either one of them. Speaking about performances, there's the question of whether Julius was impacted in the playoffs by his (over)use in the regular season.

Please locate Bo for response.

And I wonder about Noel's health at the end. He was so consistently fierce during the year. Worked so hard on the floor, made a strong, consistent impact. But in the playoffs, actually before the playoffs, he just seemed to be playing with less energy. The ankle injury took its toll.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 06, 2021, 11:29:06 PM
The technical term for what Noel did in the Hawks series is hobbling.
Title: Free Agency
Post by: Kam on June 07, 2021, 03:21:43 PM
I like the Knicks to go after Miami's Kendrick Nunn (replacing Payton)  and Denver's Will Barton (replacing Burks).

Each player could be had for about $15 mil and the outgoing players represent about $10 mil so you're only adding $20 mil to the league's lowest payroll.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 07, 2021, 10:13:52 PM
Nunn over Payton, hell yes. Barton over Burks, hell no. Burks has more size, facilitates, and is just as sharp from deep. I suspect Burks is also the better defender though less naturally quick.

Nunn is definitely on the target list. Make Miami pay to keep him at the very least.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 08, 2021, 12:34:39 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 07, 2021, 10:13:52 PM
Nunn over Payton, hell yes. Barton over Burks, hell no. Burks has more size, facilitates, and is just as sharp from deep. I suspect Burks is also the better defender though less naturally quick.

Nunn is definitely on the target list. Make Miami pay to keep him at the very least.

Ditto

Barton was kind of petulant about starting when Porter got his minutes.  Not interested in prima donnas like him and Schroeder.

Like Nunn.  A worker be who earned every minute and was given nothing.  Tough D and a terrific FT shooter.

Miami looking to max Butler and reup.Robinson. 

Nunn and Luca would give us good coverage at PG with Rose and Quick as combos, and RJ Burks-and-or-Bullock as big wings, if we keep one or both. 

I am not Cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs for BIG STARS PURSUIT. 

Tell you what, if we could move up in the draft to get that sharpshooter from Gonzaga, the 6'7" wing, what's his name.

👋
Title: Kelly Oubre
Post by: chipstern on June 08, 2021, 01:12:27 AM
If the Knicks didn't have to over pay, your thoughts Facil.

Stats were kinda crappy this past season but he might just need the right setting. Athletic.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 08, 2021, 02:54:11 AM
The last 3 years are promising if we think he can stay healthy. 16 mil ok. 13 mil a steal. 19 mil hard pass. His energy and aggression are nice. He still needs to make progress as a shooter. I think he’s more of a highlight defender than a fundamentally sound one. Can we fix this along with the shooting?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: zupzup2 on June 09, 2021, 02:18:16 AM
Did not see the Hawks Philly game but am curious: Did Ph not double Embid? What was he doing that JR was not? (other than being stronger and taller...)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 09, 2021, 02:45:47 AM
Embid makes Capella look like Noel did against Capella.

The wimpier pivot = problems, still, to this day.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 09, 2021, 02:48:38 AM
Embid v. Jokic is the finals series we want, and if we’re vaccinated is the series we deserve.

If you’re unvaccinated as a political statement, self-rapture already. Don’t let the door hit your ass on the way out.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 09, 2021, 03:01:33 AM
I have an off-season that I’d be plenty pleased with.

One trade, Kevin Knox + 19 + 21 to Houston for John Wall & their Lotto pick.

Then we resign as many as possible of our guys.

Mitch Noel Pelle
Randle Obi Taj
Barrett Bullock
Burks Quickley
Wall Rose Viladosa

LOTTO guy

Journeyman on the cheap or second rounder.

Done.

Roll em out.

We’re ready for the blood bath of a full season looking to be standing at the end.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: zupzup2 on June 09, 2021, 07:40:10 AM
Capella did not stop JR. the constant double teaming did. Are they not doubling on Embid?
Title: Wall
Post by: chipstern on June 09, 2021, 10:30:31 AM
Wall, when healthy, is a great talent. 

WHEN

HEALTHY

2016-2017 was the last season he played upwards of 78 games.

Next four?

41
32
ZIP
40

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/walljo01.html (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/walljo01.html)

2016-2017: 23.1-4.2-10.7, .801 FT% [third season in a row with 10+plus assists

2020-2021: 20.6-3.2-6.9, .745 FT%

Not too shabby. 

It's those 32 games he missed that has me concerned. 

$ 44 Million, 47 Million for the next two seasons.

So much for cap space. 

Also, logically speaking...

By your reasoning, taking on his salary + Knox and our 19-21 picks is enough to get the Rockets to pass along the #1 pick in the draft and a shot at Cade Cunningham? 

Not feeling it. 

PS: I've seen Porzingis for Kemba floated in some circles. 

PPS: Tis the season to be jolly, I reckon. 
Title: Re: Wall
Post by: chipstern on June 09, 2021, 11:37:37 AM
Quote from: chipstern on June 09, 2021, 10:30:31 AM
Wall, when healthy, is a great talent. 

WHEN

HEALTHY

2016-2017 was the last season he played upwards of 78 games.

Next four?

41
32
ZIP
40

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/walljo01.html (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/walljo01.html)

2016-2017: 23.1-4.2-10.7, .801 FT% [third season in a row with 10+plus assists

2020-2021: 20.6-3.2-6.9, .745 FT%

Not too shabby. 

It's those 32 games he missed that has me concerned. 

$ 44 Million, 47 Million for the next two seasons.

So much for cap space. 

Also, logically speaking...

By your reasoning, taking on his salary + Knox and our 19-21 picks is enough to get the Rockets to pass along the #1 pick in the draft and a shot at Cade Cunningham? 

Not feeling it. 

PS: I've seen Porzingis for Kemba floated in some circles. 

PPS: Tis the season to be jolly, I reckon.

If we are fantasizing about giving up both of our #1 picks and assets, assets meaning multiple assets more tasty than Kevin Knox, then my idea of taking on an insane contract is not John Wall, but Dame, in the unlikely event he becomes available. 

And HIS NUMBERS are off the map....

2021/22            2022/23            2023/24           2024/25
$43,750,000   $47,250,000   $50,750,000   $54,250,000

Still, all things being equal, while the pressure is on Leon to make a big, Big, BIG SPLASH, my hope is that we continue to be patient and prudent. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 09, 2021, 11:46:35 AM
Quote from: zupzup2 on June 09, 2021, 02:18:16 AM
Did not see the Hawks Philly game but am curious: Did Ph not double Embid? What was he doing that JR was not? (other than being stronger and taller...)

Embiid played better

As did the combined Philly defense
Title: Re: Wall
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 09, 2021, 11:48:44 AM
Quote from: chipstern on June 09, 2021, 11:37:37 AM
Quote from: chipstern on June 09, 2021, 10:30:31 AM
Wall, when healthy, is a great talent. 

WHEN

HEALTHY

2016-2017 was the last season he played upwards of 78 games.

Next four?

41
32
ZIP
40

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/walljo01.html (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/walljo01.html)

2016-2017: 23.1-4.2-10.7, .801 FT% [third season in a row with 10+plus assists

2020-2021: 20.6-3.2-6.9, .745 FT%

Not too shabby. 

It's those 32 games he missed that has me concerned. 

$ 44 Million, 47 Million for the next two seasons.

So much for cap space. 

Also, logically speaking...

By your reasoning, taking on his salary + Knox and our 19-21 picks is enough to get the Rockets to pass along the #1 pick in the draft and a shot at Cade Cunningham? 

Not feeling it. 

PS: I've seen Porzingis for Kemba floated in some circles. 

PPS: Tis the season to be jolly, I reckon.

If we are fantasizing about giving up both of our #1 picks and assets, assets meaning multiple assets more tasty than Kevin Knox, then my idea of taking on an insane contract is not John Wall, but Dame, in the unlikely event he becomes available. 

And HIS NUMBERS are off the map....

2021/22            2022/23            2023/24           2024/25
$43,750,000   $47,250,000   $50,750,000   $54,250,000

Still, all things being equal, while the pressure is on Leon to make a big, Big, BIG SPLASH, my hope is that we continue to be patient and prudent.

Current talk is we can have CP3 and give up no picks.

But Chris will have better options
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 09, 2021, 11:59:30 AM
As for the draft, take a no freshman approach - take some seasoned guys

Johnny Juzang    6-6 wing
Jared Butler      6-3 combo
Charles Bassey  6-11  power

Yes, of course deal up (Kispert. Bouknight, Wagner) if you can
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 09, 2021, 12:02:12 PM
Quote from: zupzup2 on June 09, 2021, 07:40:10 AM
Capella did not stop JR. the constant double teaming did. Are they not doubling on Embid?

Sounds like you didnt see the kniks games either

Randle missed shots he made during the season - and turned the ball over carelessly at times.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 09, 2021, 12:29:32 PM
Nunn and Luca would give us good coverage at PG with Rose and Quick as combos, and RJ Burks-and-or-Bullock as big wings, if we keep one or both.


This is absolutely NOT GOOD ENOUGH at the PG spot
Title: Facil-I-Tate
Post by: chipstern on June 09, 2021, 05:26:53 PM
Facil...

Here's something to consider. 

I sincerely doubt that Dame is going to be dangled. 

CP3.  Even if he bails on his final year and goes for a new pact, say 3 x 30, why would he want to bail on the Suns?  Devin Booker is a young SUPERSTAR.  Ayton is stepping up to be one at center [he was blown away when someone told him that Nokic said he caused him problems].  Bridges and Saric are first rate, up and coming role players at SF & PF, and Monty Williams is coach of the year finalist [most first place votes] and beloved of his team.  Paul is a perfect match, and they could draft a PG this summer that CP3 could conceivably mentor for the next three years. 

Lonzo Ball?  He could be expensive, and while a solid defender with three point range great court vision and size, he is a very streaky, inconsistent shooter, and I would expect him to be in the 20 million range and up if the Pelicans are to be pressed to not match. 

Looking at Blake Griffin tear it up for the Nyets, one must wonder if the God of Buyouts might shine favorably on....New York's own....

KEMBA WALKER

At $36 & $37.6 guaranteed for the next two seasons? 

No thanks. 

But there are rumblings of displeasure emanating out of Boston, concerning Walker's dismay at Ainge trying to shop him.  NOW HE WANTS OUT. 

I saw a Porzingis for Walker trade floated in the blogopsphere, which might make some sense for the Celtics, but for the Mavs?  Again, at the risk of repeating myself, I have also seen a Porzingis for Myles Turner trade floated, which would make a world of sense for Dallas.  For Indy?  If KP were not a perennial Injured Reservist, one wonders how he might match up as a Center with PF Sabonis, whose father was something of a mentor to KP. 

Be that as it may, KEMBA WALKER.

Would I trade for him?

I would NOT.  Not with those salary numbers. 

But if the Celtics despaired of trading him and went the buyout route? 

Walker is still a 90% FT shooter and .360% from trey and when ambulatory was a 19-4-5 man over 31.8 minutes in 43 of 72 games. 

If we could sign Kemba Walker at Elfrid Payton money [$4.7 million] and reup Derrick Rose for roughly the same coinage, while some might differ with my rosy outlook, with Vildoza and Quickley on board as PG/Combo options, and with up and coming PGs to choose from in the draft at 19 or 21 [if we go that route, with the likes of Tre Mann, Jared Butler, Nah'Shon Hyland or Miles McBride projected to be on board when we pick, and guessing that we do not pick up Ntlikina's option nor elevate my beloved Liliputian Jared Harfper], Walker and Rose could give Thibs the kind of veteran presence he craves, while developing Vildoza and Quickley in a less pressurized manner.  A long shot to be sure, but if Kemba could be had on the cheap, well, that's a horse of a different fire department, and one has to think KW would love to match up with the Knicks, and stick it to the Celtics management. 

PS: Admittedly Blake Griffin is shining as a small ball center playing next to the likes of Durant, Joe Harris, Kyrie and Harden [how 'bout DEM Apples], but it is worth contemplating how similar BG's size, game and athleticism mirror that of our own OBI TOPPIN.  Thibs actually gave that a look see against the Hawks, and there's no reason Obi couldn't practice for such an eventuality this summer, to function in a Blake Griffin/Taj Gibson manner.  ANYWAY....slow day leading up to the Nyets-Knucks this evening. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 09, 2021, 06:45:14 PM
Quote from: zupzup2 on June 09, 2021, 02:18:16 AM
Did not see the Hawks Philly game but am curious: Did Ph not double Embid?

I know you are still waiting for an answer -

Much of the game - no.

There are spots on the court where it is tough to run a double - and Philly had Embiid in those spots often enough

That - and he is just BETTER.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 09, 2021, 09:32:17 PM
Wall is a two year commitment. Rose would serve as a template for transitioning into a efficient productive second act at a lower gear. Our young guards would have Rose and Wall to learn from, and he isn’t even the prize. The prize is the pick which Houston pays for escaping Wall’s salary, on that makes sense for a profitable team with a financially secure owner and playoff aspirations (NY) and not on a team doing a deep rebuild (HOU).

The question is is giving up the pick worth being under the cap this year and potentially next year for Houston.

Let them answer it. It won’t hurt to ask.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 09, 2021, 10:17:12 PM
lol
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 10, 2021, 02:31:54 AM
Hawks lost Hunter. They’re done, cooked, kaput.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 10, 2021, 08:11:05 AM
Nikola Jokic becomes the second player not drafted in the first round to win NBA MVP

The first was _________?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 10, 2021, 08:12:40 AM
Only 18 of the 65 NBA MVPs were taken outside the first 5 picks

The were ___________?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on June 10, 2021, 11:12:35 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on June 10, 2021, 08:12:40 AM
Only 18 of the 65 NBA MVPs were taken outside the first 5 picks

The were ___________?

GF, Curry and Bird account for several.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on June 10, 2021, 11:23:06 AM
Kobe, Dirk, both Malones (Moses wasn't drafted at all, I think.  Signed with ABA outside draft process.) Willis Reed.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on June 10, 2021, 11:44:41 AM
Good pluck on Reed.

I was going to WAG Willis.

Who did the knicks pick with their #1 the year they picked Reed with their 2?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on June 10, 2021, 11:51:23 AM
Jim Barnes (the original Barnes called Bad News)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on June 10, 2021, 11:57:06 AM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on June 10, 2021, 11:51:23 AM
Jim Barnes (the original Barnes called Bad News)

Nailed it.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 10, 2021, 12:02:05 PM
NBA champ with Boston, evidently -  the first year I rooted for the Knicks
Title: Rumors Rumors Rumors
Post by: chipstern on June 10, 2021, 03:35:36 PM
I'm as guilty as anyone of projecting and promulgating. 

Having said that....

No details, no credence, just a name.

MYLES TURNER.

Again, saw his name circulated in a Porzingis projection. 

AGAIN, why on Earth would Indy want to divest themselves.  Offensive skills from trey and around the hoop, legit shot blocker. 

Knicks?

"INTERESTED"

K

Next...

NBA Draft on July 29. 

Meanwhile we will have gotten a glimpse of Luca Vildoza in the Olympics beginning on or around July 21.  And thereafter, in the NBA's Summer League, wherein Vildoza will hook up with Obi and IQ and whatsoever draft picks are not traded away in pursuit of the eternal superstar...come August 8-17. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 10, 2021, 04:54:59 PM
I’ll bite.

Turner and Warren for Mitch and Knox + 21 + 32

It gives Indy a real talent to replace Turner & the now fit Doug McBuckets, Lamb, and Knox give them cover at the Three with Knox still having all that potential and making good strides. It also puts them 20 mil closer to the cap this year if they don’t stash or trade either pick.

For us it means

Turner Pelle Noel
Randle Toppin Taj
Warren Bullock
Barrett Burks Quickly
Rose Viladosa

Is our jumping off point before free agency and the Draft, leaving us with room for a wing and a guard.

I like this better than messing around with Wall. 2 years of Turner, 1 of Warren remain at reasonable numbers. Warren had his boot off in April from his foot surgery, so he should be good to go next year.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 10, 2021, 05:27:14 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 10, 2021, 04:54:59 PM
I’ll bite.

Turner and Warren for Mitch and Knox + 21 + 32

It gives Indy a real talent to replace Turner & the now fit Doug McBuckets, Lamb, and Knox give them cover at the Three with Knox still having all that potential and making good strides. It also puts them 20 mil closer to the cap this year if they don’t stash or trade either pick.

For us it means

Turner Pelle Noel
Randle Toppin Taj
Warren Bullock
Barrett Burks Quickly
Rose Viladosa

Is our jumping off point before free agency and the Draft, leaving us with room for a wing and a guard.

I like this better than messing around with Wall. 2 years of Turner, 1 of Warren remain at reasonable numbers. Warren had his boot off in April from his foot surgery, so he should be good to go next year.

Hate to give up Mitchell, but gotta give to get. 

This is a trade that actually makes sense for both teams.  However, we might have to sweeten it considerably if you want to snag TJ as well who translates as a starter for Indy at SF.   Kevin Knox doesn't make it, homie. 

Oh, and McDermott is a UFA.   

Don't see us keeping Noel if we were to be all in on Turner.  Pelle and Taj good backups, and Obi with stretch 4-5 minutes, a la Blake Griffin and Taj. 

Best available young PG at #19. 

Thibs and Knicks advancing very cautiously with VILDOZA...we will have a good idea soon enough given the level of competition at the Olympics.  Some NBA types like Doncic sure to push things. 

I think Luca and dRose would constitute a solid 24/24, with Quickley drawing minutes if'n he is able to improve his handle and facilitating over the summer. 

Too much to hope for, alas, but the 25 year old Turner would give us one hell of a running buddy for JR. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 10, 2021, 06:12:02 PM
Burks is higher in the PG rotation than Quickley assuming we get Burks back.

I’m good with drafting Bassey or similar and letting Noel cash in elsewhere and using free agency to work on the backcourt. We’d still have the dough to go after higher shelf guards even adding a draft pick and the incoming salary from the proposed trade.

Knox isn’t Warren, but he’s not nothing either he’s a 22 year old swing forward/ big wing with an ending deal who just went through a year of The Thibs Academy for Badass Ballers, coming out shooting a career highs including .393 from 3.

The Pacers would be going from awfully close to the tax to awfully close to the cap in this deal, important for a small market team. They’d have to expect a real downgrade in production and or talent to accomplish this, for which we are compensating them with not one but two picks in the sweet spot of cheap salary and lots of good guys to choose from in what seems to be regarded as a talented draft.

If they wanted to sub Lamb for Warren, I’d be willing to consider it but they’d have to take weaker draft stock as their compensation. Shifting salary let’s them take a real run at Doug who I think they’d like to keep and wouldn’t mind keeping for around the mid-level if it keeps them well below the tax threshold and saves them some flexibility.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 10, 2021, 06:43:10 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 10, 2021, 06:12:02 PM
Burks is higher in the PG rotation than Quickley assuming we get Burks back.

I’m good with drafting Bassey or similar and letting Noel cash in elsewhere and using free agency to work on the backcourt. We’d still have the dough to go after higher shelf guards even adding a draft pick and the incoming salary from the proposed trade.

Knox isn’t Warren, but he’s not nothing either he’s a 22 year old swing forward/ big wing with an ending deal who just went through a year of The Thibs Academy for Badass Ballers, coming out shooting a career highs including .393 from 3.

The Pacers would be going from awfully close to the tax to awfully close to the cap in this deal, important for a small market team. They’d have to expect a real downgrade in production and or talent to accomplish this, for which we are compensating them with not one but two picks in the sweet spot of cheap salary and lots of good guys to choose from in what seems to be regarded as a talented draft.

If they wanted to sub Lamb for Warren, I’d be willing to consider it but they’d have to take weaker draft stock as their compensation. Shifting salary let’s them take a real run at Doug who I think they’d like to keep and wouldn’t mind keeping for around the mid-level if it keeps them well below the tax threshold and saves them some flexibility.

I love Burks, but if he is in our PG rotation, we are seriously fucked. 

Knox V Warren?  TJ's record speaks for itself.  I like Kevin, but seriously, he hasn't done shit.  We bought into Calipari's hype, and it looked promising for a minute, bbut Look at Mikal Bridges' growth with Phoenix.  He is a legit 3&D with a .425 3PT%, a .840 FT%, and 13.5-4.3-2.1 in 32 minutes a night. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 10, 2021, 07:27:07 PM
If we had either Bridges, my top 2 choices that year for us, I wouldn’t be looking for a quality starter at SF.

Indy doesn’t have to believe Knox is as good as Warren, especially if they have doubts he’d resign with them when his deal is up next season or that they’d want to meet his number if he keeps producing. Besides, those two are only part of the deal.

But because you have proven wise so often in the past, I’m also willing to consider a smaller deal of Mitch and suitable picks for just Miles Turner.

Saves them 13 mil instead of 20, but they get to keep Warren.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 10, 2021, 09:52:10 PM
I think Luca and dRose would constitute a solid 24/24, with Quickley drawing minutes if'n he is able to improve his handle and facilitating over the summer.


Not nearly good enough
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on June 11, 2021, 09:47:46 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on June 10, 2021, 09:52:10 PM
I think Luca and dRose would constitute a solid 24/24, with Quickley drawing minutes if'n he is able to improve his handle and facilitating over the summer.


Not nearly good enough

wtf..that's already like a guaranteed 300% upgrade over Elfrid, sight unseen on Luca!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 12, 2021, 01:43:07 AM
Austin Rivers not nearly good enough this round. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 12, 2021, 04:06:50 PM
If the Lakers offered and Derrick wanted to go, would you get Rose to them on a S&T for Kuzma?

The guy is on a 13 mil flat deal for the next three years. At the end of that tenure it won’t be much more than the MLE.

It opens the field for a top choice FA pg, but it bites us hard if we don’t get one there or through the draft.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 12, 2021, 04:20:42 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 12, 2021, 04:06:50 PM
If the Lakers offered and Derrick wanted to go, would you get Rose to them on a S&T for Kuzma?

The guy is on a 13 mil flat deal for the next three years. At the end of that tenure it won’t be much more than the MLE.

It opens the field for a top choice FA pg, but it bites us hard if we don’t get one there or through the draft.

Keep Rose.

Develop.Vildoza and Quickley

Draft Jared Butler or Tre Mann.

Or, GOD WILLING, trade up for Cory Kispert.

Rose should return to his role of 20 ÷ a night with the second unit.  A spark plug set to detonate.

Thibs out of desperation rode him like a rodeo bull towards seasons end, and DR, while heroic, broke down.

He can be an inspirational role player, but is foolhardy to over do it. 

PS: KUZMA?  No thanks.

PPS: Go Jazz.  Come hither KAWHI.  God willing, least ways complicit.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 12, 2021, 09:11:54 PM
Clips all night.

Series doesnt turn til someone loses at HOME.

(Sorry, Joker)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 12, 2021, 09:13:21 PM
PS: KUZMA?  No thanks.


LOL
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 12, 2021, 09:18:59 PM
Thibs and Knicks advancing very cautiously with VILDOZA...we will have a good idea soon enough given the level of competition at the Olympics.  Some NBA types like Doncic sure to push things.


I value our brain trust - but one wonders why there was not a bidding war for this player (we didnt have any rights to him)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 13, 2021, 07:05:39 PM
Good scouts lock up free talent before other teams get involved. The focus for all the more attractive teams at the time was signing Mike James. He’s paid off for the Nyets. We’ll see about Luca. Personally I like the odds he can contribute in a significant way to our rotation. Hope that, among other things, he’s working on his J. You can never have too good a jumper as a guard.
Title: CP3
Post by: chipstern on June 13, 2021, 10:46:06 PM
DAMN
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 14, 2021, 06:21:12 AM
If Phoenix stays healthy they can win it. I hope that they do, or if not they lose to the Bucks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 14, 2021, 08:53:03 AM
No worries about CP3 coming to NY.

He will wish to stay in PHX and they will accomodate with a new pact

(and it wont be 3-100)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 14, 2021, 08:54:29 AM
https://lebronwire.usatoday.com/2021/06/07/kyle-kuzma-says-adding-improved-handle-will-make-everything-come-together/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 14, 2021, 04:26:14 PM
Blazers set to interview Mike D'Antoni, Chauncey Billups and BECKY HAMMON for their head coaching position.
Title: Just making sure
Post by: carlos123 on June 16, 2021, 07:59:15 PM
Chamaco starts a new page with 3 chamacoposts, and everybody stops posting, hmmm...

Just making sure he didn't actually kill the forum.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3df2G9ggQuXqa3MIEUyCvHvK-_h-QXf5ZERljrPN98HUNqUxMXBmGlcKvWir_z5Q4NxapnDf5abwDFBmEgvS_BG57hkB_TTx1tpy9UZiryO0ersdb_2foZWSb_0Svvxy9AwUtmBBQg1CNtNOLNb2GtY=w626-h570-no?authuser=0)
Title: Re: Just making sure
Post by: chipstern on June 16, 2021, 09:32:19 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on June 16, 2021, 07:59:15 PM
Chamaco starts a new page with 3 chamacoposts, and everybody stops posting, hmmm...

Just making sure he didn't actually kill the forum.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3df2G9ggQuXqa3MIEUyCvHvK-_h-QXf5ZERljrPN98HUNqUxMXBmGlcKvWir_z5Q4NxapnDf5abwDFBmEgvS_BG57hkB_TTx1tpy9UZiryO0ersdb_2foZWSb_0Svvxy9AwUtmBBQg1CNtNOLNb2GtY=w626-h570-no?authuser=0)

(https://www.sandybrownjazz.co.uk/TrackImages/Chano%20Pozo%20and%20Dizzy%20Gillespie%20b.jpg)
Title: Thanks Chip
Post by: carlos123 on June 16, 2021, 10:32:23 PM
That shows we're still alive 😁👍
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on June 16, 2021, 10:49:45 PM
that was some serious quality play-off gackage by the 76ers

part of the process

ouch
Title: Hawks
Post by: carlos123 on June 16, 2021, 11:00:06 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on June 16, 2021, 10:49:45 PM
that was some serious quality play-off gackage by the 76ers

part of the process

ouch

Well, give Atlanta some credit.

Incredible 15-0 run, and an amazing Trae Young.

Plus they did it without De'Andre Hunter. How about that Fac?

PS:

"- Patriotism is not a race.  It's a value. -"
Chamaco

- Chamaco's Patriotism is not a phase.  It's a daze. -
The way I read it
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on June 16, 2021, 11:12:25 PM
Kudos to the Hawks and I'm rooting for them 

But its not every day you see a home favorite lose an 18 pt lead in the 4th qtr of a critical G5.

this has been one weird NBA year
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 16, 2021, 11:30:18 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on June 16, 2021, 11:12:25 PM
Kudos to the Hawks and I'm rooting for them 

But its not every day you see a home favorite lose an 18 pt lead in the 4th qtr of a critical G5.

this has been one weird NBA year

What were the Clippers thinking when they traded Lou Williams?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 17, 2021, 01:34:52 AM
I was out perfecting the art of counter riposte traps & missed tonight’s games. It looks like Ben Simmons was low impact & Tobias Harris was basically shut out. That seems incredible enough to catch the replay for, that and the amount of BS necessary to get Young 19 ft attempts.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 17, 2021, 02:15:22 AM
Ham’s hometown sixers share his steadiness in the clutch apparently.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 17, 2021, 08:53:17 AM
heh

heh

heh

Doc, Doc, Doc.......
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 17, 2021, 08:54:55 AM
And today....yet another look at

TRAE YOUNG

vs 

LUKA DONCIC

Anyone?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on June 17, 2021, 08:57:38 AM
Lonzo Ball as a generational talent.

ANYONE?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 17, 2021, 09:02:40 AM
What were the Clippers thinking when they traded Lou Williams?


PLAYOFF RONDO

(we'll see how that works out - RR struggling with the numbers this year's playoffs but a stout contributor nonetheless - 16.8 PER in 18 reg season games for LAC - and 2 biggest series to come)

Note:  with PG13 and Kawhi, addition of Kennard - Lou's shots were less needed.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 17, 2021, 09:06:54 AM
Kennard - .476/.446/.839 regular season

Mann - .509/.418/.830

Not sure Lou is missed all that much.
Title: The Futility of Ben Simmons
Post by: chipstern on June 17, 2021, 12:22:31 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 17, 2021, 01:34:52 AM
I was out perfecting the art of counter riposte traps & missed tonight’s games. It looks like Ben Simmons was low impact & Tobias Harris was basically shut out. That seems incredible enough to catch the replay for, that and the amount of BS necessary to get Young 19 ft attempts.

 Big Ben was 4-14 from the FT Line

How is that possible?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 17, 2021, 12:53:06 PM
Doc had Harris defer to Embiid, who shit the bed last seven minutes after playing marvelously for 3.5 quarters

Harris and Doc visibly in each others faces on the issue.

Harris would be a good Knick if we decided to move Julius, which we wont.  No way TH stays in Philly.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on June 17, 2021, 04:11:40 PM
Quote from: chipstern on June 16, 2021, 11:30:18 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on June 16, 2021, 11:12:25 PM
Kudos to the Hawks and I'm rooting for them 

But its not every day you see a home favorite lose an 18 pt lead in the 4th qtr of a critical G5.

this has been one weird NBA year

What were the Clippers thinking when they traded Lou Williams?

Thought about that 10 times.

The dude is impactful.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 17, 2021, 04:15:26 PM
Lost in seven to the Nuggets

Here are the numbers

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2020-nba-western-conference-semifinals-nuggets-vs-clippers.html

Lou shot .354/.148 for the series

Chipstern always has the wrong wouldashouldacoulda take.
Title: Re: The Futility of Ben Simmons
Post by: elephant on June 17, 2021, 04:16:13 PM
Quote from: chipstern on June 17, 2021, 12:22:31 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 17, 2021, 01:34:52 AM
I was out perfecting the art of counter riposte traps & missed tonight’s games. It looks like Ben Simmons was low impact & Tobias Harris was basically shut out. That seems incredible enough to catch the replay for, that and the amount of BS necessary to get Young 19 ft attempts.

 Big Ben was 4-14 from the FT Line

How is that possible?

Can't make foul shots. And not a dazzling performance on the defensive end.

His stock is falling.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on June 17, 2021, 04:16:35 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on June 17, 2021, 12:53:06 PM
Doc had Harris defer to Embiid, who shit the bed last seven minutes after playing marvelously for 3.5 quarters

Harris and Doc visibly in each others faces on the issue.

Harris would be a good Knick if we decided to mobe Julius, which we wont.  No way TH stays in Philly.

No to Harris.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on June 17, 2021, 04:18:55 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on June 17, 2021, 04:15:26 PM
Lost in seven to the Nuggets

Here are the numbers

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2020-nba-western-conference-semifinals-nuggets-vs-clippers.html

Lou shot .354/.148 for the series

Chipstern always has the wrong wouldashouldacoulda take.

Appreciate the history lesson. But in the last month, how many Hawk playoff wins would have been losses without him?

IMHO....several.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 17, 2021, 09:10:37 PM
I do so hate when they have a coach (Budey) FIRED before a game even starts

I wish him well
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 17, 2021, 09:16:35 PM
NBA Radio guys all over Giannis yesterday and today for crowning KD as best player in the world ("How do you do this when you are the 2-time MVP?").  I don't kill him for his honesty.

I am certain ANTETEKOUMPO is putting up a good fight tonight
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 17, 2021, 09:48:25 PM
Quote from: elephant on June 17, 2021, 04:16:35 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on June 17, 2021, 12:53:06 PM
Doc had Harris defer to Embiid, who shit the bed last seven minutes after playing marvelously for 3.5 quarters

Harris and Doc visibly in each others faces on the issue.

Harris would be a good Knick if we decided to mobe Julius, which we wont.  No way TH stays in Philly.

No to Harris.

What team are you speaking for?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 17, 2021, 09:51:43 PM
Quote from: elephant on June 17, 2021, 04:18:55 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on June 17, 2021, 04:15:26 PM
Lost in seven to the Nuggets

Here are the numbers

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2020-nba-western-conference-semifinals-nuggets-vs-clippers.html

Lou shot .354/.148 for the series

Chipstern always has the wrong wouldashouldacoulda take.

Appreciate the history lesson. But in the last month, how many Hawk playoff wins would have been losses without him?

IMHO....several.

Lou Williams played 53 minutes vs the Knicks.  That was in 5 games

He made 13 shots.  3 were three pointers.  And three free throws.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 17, 2021, 10:26:13 PM
Congrats to QUICKLEY on second team all rookie

Okoro over Anthony?

Oy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 18, 2021, 09:39:08 AM
No Al Horford to Knicks


As I suspected - back to Celtics

OKC gets Kemba and a first rounder.


Ainge's mess cleaned up - sort of.

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 18, 2021, 09:46:34 AM
73 mil for Walker next 2 years.  OKC, having secured the #16 pick to go with their own #1 - will now look to move Kemba again

Celts also get usable big guy Moses Brown
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 18, 2021, 12:06:01 PM
They could have just paid Rozier. Williams, Brown, and Fall make a pretty imposing gaggle of young bigs with Al getting good money in his role as assistant coach.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 18, 2021, 12:13:16 PM
Knicks - 21st pick

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/miles-mcbride/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on June 18, 2021, 12:36:48 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on June 18, 2021, 09:39:08 AM
No Al Horford to Knicks


As I suspected - back to Celtics

OKC gets Kemba and a first rounder.


Ainge's mess cleaned up - sort of.

heh

Brad showed he can make a deal. IMO its a net positive, Kemba as an on/off managed minutes PG who couldn't play D, had to go. Al as a sound fundamental 4-5, who maybe plays 20+ minutes, who provides leadership on court and in clubhouse who knows JnJ and they know him, and who can mentor Time Lord. That Brad felt comfortable bringing him back is telling. Brad needs to find a Rondo-lite PG to orchestrate the offense and play D.

Celts are still a pretty young team with a lot of home grown 1s who may produce as the NBA returns to normal.

Kemba was a good guy, who caught a bad break. But he became almost unusable for a team with contender aspirations.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 18, 2021, 01:04:00 PM
I'd see what I could get for Jaylen
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on June 18, 2021, 01:25:51 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on June 18, 2021, 01:04:00 PM
I'd see what I could get for Jaylen

Who would you trade a 24 YO AS quality player for?

I can think of maybe 2-3 guys on my short list I might consider.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 18, 2021, 01:57:53 PM
Simmons

Wiggins plus the Golden State 1

I could go on...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 18, 2021, 01:59:27 PM
If you like their mix, I wont tell you what to think of your team

So...

who's coaching?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on June 18, 2021, 02:26:29 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on June 18, 2021, 01:57:53 PM
Simmons

Wiggins plus the Golden State 1

I could go on...

You're joking right?

Doc can't play Simmons in crunch time unless its a blow-out and you want a 2-way AS player on a good contract for him?

Nope-We're not remotely on the same page.

Pass on Wiggins, and that 1 will be the 30th pick

You should probably move to your next best idea.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on June 18, 2021, 02:30:31 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on June 18, 2021, 01:59:27 PM
If you like their mix, I wont tell you what to think of your team

So...

who's coaching?

I've read the same names you have. Seems Billups or Cassell are favorites. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 18, 2021, 02:37:12 PM
Golden State has a top 10 pick

And I like Simmons with Tatum
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on June 18, 2021, 03:03:21 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on June 18, 2021, 02:37:12 PM
Golden State has a top 10 pick

And I like Simmons with Tatum

Warriors would do that trade in a heartbeat.

Celts would laugh at it.

And Simmons and Tatum could have been team mates in Philly if Philly had taken Tatum with the #1.

As you may have heard they payed up for Fultz.

Another guard who couldn't/wouldn't shoot.

Not interested in Philly headcases.

If you want a young star on a good contract you don't offer question marks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 18, 2021, 04:36:39 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on June 18, 2021, 12:13:16 PM
Knicks - 21st pick

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/miles-mcbride/

I do like sophomores in the draft generally. Think he’ll be available at 32?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 18, 2021, 05:21:22 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on June 18, 2021, 01:25:51 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on June 18, 2021, 01:04:00 PM
I'd see what I could get for Jaylen

Who would you trade a 24 YO AS quality player for?

I can think of maybe 2-3 guys on my short list I might consider.

WHY

Why would the Celtics move on from Jaylen?  Absurd on the face of it.  He and Jayson are cornerstones.  Getting better and better with each passing season.   

Impressed that Stevens pulled the trigger.  The #16 pick is a significant gimme.  Horford an asset at the 4&5, even at 53 million, still a savings of 20 million over Kemba.  And yes, Moses Brown is a young big BIG with some potential. 

I suspect Sam Presti is going to look to flip Kemba and find him a happy home. 

They certainly have the draft assets to do so, but not many teams with the cap space to absorb such a contract.  Those that are at the bottom end of the salary cap spacers, such as NY, Charlotte and Sacramento would seem unwilling or already flush with PGs.  Meanwhile the Thunder have big PG/SG Alexander and young PG Maledon. 

MEANWHILE...

Some of my Knicks friends texting me about how ZION's family is unhappy with New Orleans, and LUKA upset with the Mavs.  And a host of untenable, absurdist trade scenarios in the blogosphere.  One of which would amuse Brother Bank, where we trade Frank for Marcus. 

False hope springs eternal. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 18, 2021, 05:30:34 PM
Guys I could see falling to us & jumping in among the draft eligible this year.

Backcourt: Bouknight, Mann, Duarte

Wings: Jeremiah Robinson Earl, Trey Murphy III, Z Williams,  Franz, Belgian Vrenz

Bigs: Bassey, Day’ron Sharpe, Filip Petrusev, Jay Huff, Sandro, Moses Wright, Kofi Cockburn

This might be subject to change, but not much. We could find some decent depth if we stay put.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on June 18, 2021, 05:54:52 PM
Chip

"...and LUKA upset with the Mavs."

This led to Luka being on my very short-list of considerables, as mentioned above.

this one would be complicated and have to involved other assets, but I'd consider it. Not sure how Tatum and Luka would fit, but it might be fun to watch. 


"And a host of untenable, absurdist trade scenarios in the blogosphere.  One of which would amuse Brother Bank, where we trade Frank for Marcus."

I can't see that as remotely equitable. My man Marcus took a fair amount of heat this year, as playing out of control, and some C-fans want to trade him. I think he tried too hard to carry a team that was taking hits seemingly every week. This past season was not a good one to judge players or teams. As we've discussed before, a lot of teams had problems with injuries and covid and the short-turn around time from '19-'20.

IMO Brad appreciates Marcus's bulldog toughness and competiveness and ways he can impact games. As I've posted before he's an acquired taste and brings intangibles that speaking as a fan are fun to watch (most of the time).

He is that, no, no, no, YES! guy.

I hope he stays a Celt.     
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 18, 2021, 06:47:13 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on June 18, 2021, 03:03:21 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on June 18, 2021, 02:37:12 PM
Golden State has a top 10 pick

And I like Simmons with Tatum

Warriors would do that trade in a heartbeat.

Celts would laugh at it.

And Simmons and Tatum could have been team mates in Philly if Philly had taken Tatum with the #1.

As you may have heard they payed up for Fultz.

Another guard who couldn't/wouldn't shoot.

Not interested in Philly headcases.

If you want a young star on a good contract you don't offer question marks.

LoL
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 18, 2021, 06:58:52 PM
You guys checking in on Doc's funeral tonight?

So, so sad.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 18, 2021, 07:50:57 PM
Udoka, Ham join Billups in Celts job hunt.

Title: Moving Forward
Post by: chipstern on June 18, 2021, 08:08:05 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on June 18, 2021, 05:54:52 PM
Chip

"...and LUKA upset with the Mavs."

This led to Luka being on my very short-list of considerables, as mentioned above.

this one would be complicated and have to involved other assets, but I'd consider it. Not sure how Tatum and Luka would fit, but it might be fun to watch. 


"And a host of untenable, absurdist trade scenarios in the blogosphere.  One of which would amuse Brother Bank, where we trade Frank for Marcus."

I can't see that as remotely equitable. My man Marcus took a fair amount of heat this year, as playing out of control, and some C-fans want to trade him. I think he tried too hard to carry a team that was taking hits seemingly every week. This past season was not a good one to judge players or teams. As we've discussed before, a lot of teams had problems with injuries and covid and the short-turn around time from '19-'20.

IMO Brad appreciates Marcus's bulldog toughness and competiveness and ways he can impact games. As I've posted before he's an acquired taste and brings intangibles that speaking as a fan are fun to watch (most of the time).

He is that, no, no, no, YES! guy.

I hope he stays a Celt.   

Wasn't proffering a deal for Luka to the Celtics. 

Just noting the endless capacity of me fellow Knicks fans to pursue impossible dreams. 

Grant Hill
LeBron James
Chris Bosh
Kevin Durant
Kyrie Irving
Damian Lillard
Zion Williamson
Luka Doncic

Dame and Zion and Luka's names appear with much regularity on such speculative Blogosphere staples as DAILY KNICKS, and the work of such psilocybin addled handicappers as Brad Dressler. 

I was not suggesting that Ntilikina for Smart was grounded in any manner of reality. 

I was frankly baffled by the enmity which landed on Smart's shoulders.  Perhaps he tried to do too much, but an awful lot of responsibility was dropped on his shoulders when Kemba could not remain on the floor. 

Much of the enmity was coming from Kendrick Perkins, who has evolved into something of a...I don't know.  Always admired his tenacity as a player, but I do not place much capital in his analytical reasoning, and his hard on for Smart baffled me. 

Ideally, Smart is your sixth man, coming off the pine to pull minutes at the 2 & 1.  His three point shooting has evolved, but is not an area of strength.  However his playmaking, FT shooting, STOUT DEFENSE and competitive fire and selfless example are irreplaceable on the Celtics.  I sincerely doubt Brad has him on the block, Kendrick's hard on notwithstanding. 

Thibs would cherish him. 

With Smart and Pritchard, the Celtics are not set at PG, but things could be a lot worse.  The #16 pick would've given them a shot at a good PG, but such was the price of divesting themselves of Kemba's albatross of a contract and reuniting with Al Horford, who can surely give them 20 good minutes a night next season at the 4&5 spots.  Al and Tristan, let alone Robert Williams, do not confer much meaningful size, Tacko Fall notwithstanding. 

Anyway, Brad moved on decisively.  How deep will he dip for Fournier? Or the free agent market for a vet PG? 

As for Leon Rose? 

Inscrutable.  I'm pretty damn sure he wants to bring back Taj and Derrick, but for how much?

Alec Burks-and/or-Reggie Bullock?  Again, how much, how long, if at all.  They will get some offers. 

As will Nerlens Noel. 

Some of the FA names being floated seem wildly improbable [CP3, Kawhi, Dame], or tenable but expensive [DeRozan, Lowry].  Some which have not been floated, such as Conley or Dragic might be worth a whistle if the price is right.  With cap space, being able to sit on a garage sale candidate is not really tenable given Thibs' competitive fury, and his desire to step up come next November.  Magic's derision regarding Dennis Schroeder were hardly a ringing endorsement.  Do we pursue Ball The Elder?  Is that realistic target?  Do we actually deploy all of our draft picks, or package them in pursuit of a plum.  Can hardly see Thibs indulging a couple of 19-20 year olds next season. 

Anyway, my random thoughts, such as they are. 
Title: Trae
Post by: chipstern on June 18, 2021, 10:05:28 PM
No FEAR.

Damn
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 18, 2021, 10:20:50 PM
Lou

0-5

0 points

-12

Those dumbbbb Clippers.
Title: LOL
Post by: carlos123 on June 18, 2021, 10:22:49 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on June 18, 2021, 06:58:52 PM
You guys checking in on Doc's funeral tonight?

So, so sad.

Chamaco, you said it... often.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3ckosSoTRHGXG4k-OCA2pVXfzewhXuzBYoGpsyMZVnzDq9ClI46oruQhbgSzQ9NiWcRnXh17QQU1T2E-x8FKtLT4EzHS0NTRyTH3a3D_76D71Q-i9VLGdWCOYKW1N7yNCrXtD_KYx0uYx_1P39yT7qh=w368-h570-no?authuser=0)

- Chamaco's Patriotism is not a phase. It's a daze. -
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 19, 2021, 11:22:49 AM
Celtics head coaching hire HAS TO BE a person of colour or a woman.

Discuss
Title: Why?
Post by: carlos123 on June 19, 2021, 02:17:08 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8  on June 19, 2021, 11:22:49 AM
Celtics head coaching hire HAS TO BE a person of colour or a woman.

Discuss

Why on earth would we want to discuss your stupid questions?

Go back to declaring Doc’s funeral.

- Chamaco’s Patriotism is not a phase. It’s a daze. -
Title: A Class Act
Post by: chipstern on June 19, 2021, 05:10:30 PM
Donovan Mitchell after the game: “I want to start this press conference off by saying, salute to Terrence Mann. I’ve played against Terrence since middle school. He’s always been a dog and a warrior.”
Title: Re: A Class Act
Post by: facilitatorn on June 19, 2021, 08:30:26 PM
Quote from: chipstern on June 19, 2021, 05:10:30 PM
Donovan Mitchell after the game: “I want to start this press conference off by saying, salute to Terrence Mann. I’ve played against Terrence since middle school. He’s always been a dog and a warrior.”
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: josh on June 19, 2021, 10:45:44 PM
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f9/a5/9d/f9a59d4bd243cebf82f612c792b269d1.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on June 19, 2021, 11:40:27 PM
Lakers-deadmen

Nets-deadmen

Neidermeyer

GO Hawks!

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on June 19, 2021, 11:40:43 PM
Wow.

Bye bye Brooklyn.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 19, 2021, 11:47:46 PM
Great game

Nash choked on his time out.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on June 19, 2021, 11:50:35 PM
I thought the 1st half was a shit-show of bad boring basketball with no flow.

But the 2nd half was a lot better. And it turned into a pretty good nail-biter entertaining game.

Durant is fucking amazing.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on June 20, 2021, 12:17:09 AM
Do the nets get everybody back? Yes Nash showed his greenness. Nets are an awesome team when healthy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on June 20, 2021, 12:22:43 AM
I’m still don’t think Harden will ever win a championship.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on June 20, 2021, 12:42:58 AM
I'm not a huge Harden fan, (I hate his drawing BS fouls) but him playing on one-leg for 53 minutes showed a lot of heart.

and Fuck Kyrie

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 20, 2021, 08:13:59 AM
Quote from: luee on June 20, 2021, 12:17:09 AM
Do the nets get everybody back? Yes Nash showed his greenness. Nets are an awesome team when healthy.

Not under contract for next year

Jeff Green
Tyler Johnson
Timofey Luwawu Cabarot
Bruce Brown
Blake Griffin
Chris Chioza

Add.    Spencer Dinwiddie
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 20, 2021, 09:19:42 AM
Kemba options for OKC who are loaded at guard

https://okcthunderwire.usatoday.com/lists/5-routes-thunder-kemba-walker/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 20, 2021, 11:42:55 AM
Fuck the Nyets, their failed season, and their huge luxury tax bill. No way Durant puts up with the two petulant bitches Harden and Irving over the course of the summer. He’ll ask out and they will break up the band.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 20, 2021, 01:46:22 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 20, 2021, 11:42:55 AM
Fuck the Nyets, their failed season, and their huge luxury tax bill. No way Durant puts up with the two petulant bitches Harden and Irving over the course of the summer. He’ll ask out and they will break up the band.

Huh?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 20, 2021, 03:17:20 PM
In the same way one can genuinely like a basketball team, one can conversely viscerally dislike a team. I viscerally dislike this version of the Nyets. I hope they make as much of a splash as Brooklyn’s inaugural super team and flame out just as thoroughly.

Atlanta and Dallas are the next two I currently root against, though Nate was one of my favorite players and is one of my favorite coaches which makes it tough, along with 40% of their roster being guys I like, and their areana’s proximity to a Flying Biscuit.

I like Cuban much better then the Mavs. Carlyle was the best thing about them. I hope Luca gets caught eating Vaseline in the next 3-4 years.
Title: Trader Vic Regrets
Post by: chipstern on June 20, 2021, 04:12:49 PM
The Minnesota Timberwolves' draft-night trade that netted the team the draft rights to No. 6 overall draft pick Jarrett Culver from the Phoenix Suns in exchange for the draft rights to No. 11 overall pick Cameron Johnson and forward Dario Šarić.

Hmmmm
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 20, 2021, 04:21:39 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 20, 2021, 03:17:20 PM
In the same way one can genuinely like a basketball team, one can conversely viscerally dislike a team. I viscerally dislike this version of the Nyets. I hope they make as much of a splash as Brooklyn’s inaugural super team and flame out just as thoroughly.

Atlanta and Dallas are the next two I currently root against, though Nate was one of my favorite players and is one of my favorite coaches which makes it tough, along with 40% of their roster being guys I like, and their areana’s proximity to a Flying Biscuit.

I like Cuban much better then the Mavs. Carlyle was the best thing about them. I hope Luca gets caught eating Vaseline in the next 3-4 years.

Nate sure did one hell of a job getting Trae to the next level of leadership and efficiency. 

Hawks whupped us fair and square. 
Title: Phoenix V LA
Post by: chipstern on June 20, 2021, 05:14:19 PM
This is one hell of a game. 

George and Booker having a Pillsbury Bake Off.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on June 20, 2021, 05:56:12 PM
Mike Breen is really at the top of his game, no?

Just adds so much to any game he's announcing.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on June 20, 2021, 05:57:59 PM
And yeah, I hate these Nets too. Loved to see them lose.

That said, Durant is something else as a ball player. Pretty astonishing.

And Harden showed me something, a tenacity I guess, that I didn't quite expect.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 20, 2021, 06:24:55 PM
If they can somehow swap Irving for Rusty and get Ibaka to decline his option to jump back to the Atlantic, they might be on to something…
Title: Re: Trader Vic Regrets
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 20, 2021, 09:20:38 PM
Quote from: chipstern on June 20, 2021, 04:12:49 PM
The Minnesota Timberwolves' draft-night trade that netted the team the draft rights to No. 6 overall draft pick Jarrett Culver from the Phoenix Suns in exchange for the draft rights to No. 11 overall pick Cameron Johnson and forward Dario Šarić.

Hmmmm

Yeah....

2 more years for Culver to make good.

Suns did fine.  But either they or Wolves could have had HACHIMURA rather than Culver, likely the best maneuver at the time, in hindsight.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 20, 2021, 10:34:15 PM
What up Doc?

Beaten by Nate McMillian, about a .333 guy in playoff games?

Good Lord.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 20, 2021, 10:36:46 PM
The league is having to pull out every last single shady ref move to keep the Hawks in the playoffs. Even with that it’s taking the Rooster (Gallo) to save the Chicken Shit’s (Young) season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 20, 2021, 10:43:13 PM
3 7 gamers - what a treat!

Cant wait to hear Doc get fucking roasted tomorrow.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 20, 2021, 10:44:13 PM
I am 6-6 on picks but cant say I am one bit unhappy with this Final 4
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on June 20, 2021, 10:57:24 PM
There is nothing that Rivers did wrong that would not have been overcome with even a marginally decent game from Simmons. He’s an incredibly passive player.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on June 20, 2021, 11:16:39 PM
Simmons,fair or not, is the goat in this series. A total  vanishing act in the 4qtr. Houdini would take notes
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on June 20, 2021, 11:21:43 PM
He's getting killed by the TNT crew
Title: STFU
Post by: carlos123 on June 20, 2021, 11:23:18 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on June 20, 2021, 10:44:13 PM
I am 6-6 on picks but cant say I am one bit unhappy with this Final 4

You ain’t 6-6 on anything.
And if you got a problem with Doc, we don’t care.
Just STFU, bitch!
Go Hawks!!!

- Chamaco’s Patriotism is for the white race. And it’s a daze. -
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on June 20, 2021, 11:29:59 PM
On my sports hate/schadenfreude scale with the Lakers Nets and 76ers out of the tourney, im 10 for 10.
Heh
Title: Schadenfreude
Post by: carlos123 on June 20, 2021, 11:40:15 PM
Hey Bank, as a Boston fan, we all know you also hate the Knicks, and that’s alright, we too hate the fucking Celtics.
So, let’s say, you may not be 10 for 10, but you sure are 4 for 4.
Enjoy!
Title: Re: Schadenfreude
Post by: bankshot1 on June 20, 2021, 11:53:08 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on June 20, 2021, 11:40:15 PM
Hey Bank, as a Boston fan, we all know you also hate the Knicks, and that’s alright, we too hate the fucking Celtics.
So, let’s say, you may not be 10 for 10, but you sure are 4 for 4.
Enjoy!

Carlos This was the season from hell for the Celts, and for all intents and purposes, I knew it a couple of months ago. Whatever could go wrong did go wrong. And there wasn't a damn thing I could do about it, but suffer. So schadenfreude, enjoying the pain of others,  was the goal. On my NBA Sports hate list is is the Lakers and 76ers, the Nets because of that douche nozzle Kyrie joined them. This post-season I hit the trifecta of schadenfreude.

I was dreading a Nets-76ers ECF with the winner to face the Lakers. But fate intervened one more time.

As for the Knicks, and this is true, I sports hated the knicks in '73 (but I liked them as a team and the way they played) and I hated the style of ball they played in the mid 90s, it was ugly and sucked the beauty out of the game, but generally I really don't care about the Knicks. We didn't really bump heads all that often. But this year I was happy for you guys. You paid your dues long enough rooting for shitty teams, and they gave you fun and hope.

No promises for next year.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on June 20, 2021, 11:58:47 PM
Rivers back to the Celts?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on June 21, 2021, 12:13:23 AM
Porzingus for Simmons looks like a no brainer as well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on June 21, 2021, 12:19:13 AM
Quote from: FWK00 on June 20, 2021, 11:58:47 PM
Rivers back to the Celts?

(Too) Many Rivers to cross.

IMO Brad goes with a young guy he may be able to mold influence/work with.

I think there's a better chance of Simmons getting traded than Doc getting canned (at least next year). Simmons was unplayable in crunch time. He needs a shrink to work through some stuff. 
Title: Yes, Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on June 21, 2021, 12:25:33 AM
Quote from: FWK00 on June 21, 2021, 12:13:23 AM
Porzingus for Simmons looks like a no brainer as well.

A crazy idea: Simmons is damaged goods and by now not a future star for sure.

How about we swap him for one of our discards and he becomes a Thib’s project, no pressure here because nobody expects anything of him, beginning with Simmons himself, and he gets a new beginning while providing us with a useful piece to use off the bench.

PS. Fuck Porzingus ( I like this name).

- Chamaco’s Patriotism is for the white race. -
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 21, 2021, 01:22:01 AM
Simmons Randle RJ Burks Rose wouldn’t be a bad front five. We’ve got another year of Kenny Payne.

Mitch, Obi, & pick 19 & maybe a ‘23 second rounder for Ben. You do have four years left running up to 40 mil.

It likely would cause Randle to want to wait on the extension.

We’d still have a decent amount of space to go shopping or absorb deals plus an exception or two.

It might be worth considering.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on June 21, 2021, 10:10:01 AM
We'll pass on that. While Simmons' defensive skills would surely be appreciated by coach, he is a spectacularly bad fit in an offense anchored by Randle. Defenses would collapse on us to black hole density. Let somebody else fix his head — and his shot. That loss wasn't on Doc, btw, it's on whichever idiot failed to resign Jimmy Butler.
Title: Trae BIEN
Post by: chipstern on June 21, 2021, 10:46:02 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 21, 2021, 01:22:01 AM
Simmons Randle RJ Burks Rose wouldn’t be a bad front five. We’ve got another year of Kenny Payne.

Mitch, Obi, & pick 19 & maybe a ‘23 second rounder for Ben. You do have four years left running up to 40 mil.

It likely would cause Randle to want to wait on the extension.

We’d still have a decent amount of space to go shopping or absorb deals plus an exception or two.

It might be worth considering.

PuhLEEEEEEESE. 

$33,003,936   $35,448,672   $37,893,408   $40,338,144  [through 2025].  You are putting your Executive Of The Year creds in mortal danger. 

A tall Elfrid Payton at Chris Paul prices.  But Trae is a chickenshit?  We just watched Elfrid go from a solid first half of the season to a complete psychic meltdown in the final stanzas, and you wanna trade our first rounder and two of our top developmental projects for a spooked young man with a max contract and his head farther up a Kardashian Sister's pudendum than his own arse. 

What DAWG said.  About both Simmons AND Bulter.  The goat still had 13 assists, and 7 boards, but only took 4 shots and 2 free throws.  Whereas Ice Trae? 

PS: Facil hates Ice Trae?  Why?  Because he kicked our ass.  That's rich. I don't hate Reggie Miller or Paul Pierce, but then, I'm funny that way.  As many bricks as Young made out of straw, he still kept aggressive, still kept attacking [a couple of beautiful feeds and floaters into the paint for jams], and that late three from the parking lot was a dagger for sure.  Trae Young is FEARLESS.  THAT's what a leader looks like.  Props to Nate McMiliian. 

PPS: Brad Stevens found a taker for Kemba, so nothing is impossible.  Still, your own generous offer notwithstanding, one would think the market for Big Ben would be kind of limited.  Also, the Sixers have gone all in on their salary cap space to Ben, Tobias and Joel.  I like Harris and LOVE Embid, who not only showed a lot of skill in this post season, but a lot of heart and some real guts, playing in pain as he did.  Be that as it may, their Big Three of Simmons, Harris and Embid has swallowed all of their cap space, leaving won to wonder how they could possibly make a bid on Philly icon Kyle Lowry in the post season, the vet PG constituting the kind of game and leadership that could have put them over the top in this post season. 

PPPS: Besides all of their questionable all-ins on salaries, wouldn't Mikal Bridges have been a nice piece to deploy against Huerta yesterday.  The Sixers draft day trade WITH PHOENIX of Bridges for Zhaire Smith remains one of the consummate head scratchers of all time.  Smith is long gone playing a total of 13 games in two seasons, while Bridges is a key player on a dynamic Suns team, a defensive stopper who nailed .425% of this treys, .840% of his FTs, and was an efficient .543% from the field for 13.5-4.3-2.1

PPPPS: Philly?  We passed on Bridges to take Kevin Knox, who despite improvements in his game, remained buried on the pine and is now a fixture in most phantasy trade scenarios. 
Title: Simmons
Post by: carlos123 on June 21, 2021, 10:49:54 AM
Fac, I would not give them Mitch for Simmons. I would only offer a discard, say Frank or a resigned Payton. Knox too.
And, Les, I proposed Ben coming off the bench, not with King Julius.
We would also need to negotiate with Philly as to what part of Ben’s salary we will pay going forward.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 21, 2021, 11:08:38 AM
I did not realize there was a Kardashian in the picture. That’s a hard deal breaker. Pass on Ben. We’ll have better luck developing our own assets.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on June 21, 2021, 11:34:21 AM
Kid- Last week, you had the Celts shopping Jaylen and thought Simmons was a good value.

We disagreed.

Where are you today?


Carlos-I can't see Philly giving Simmons away. At least yet. If he can clear his head of shooting fears, he can be still be a star. So fix first is probably the smartest path to take. A combo of shrink's couch and shooting coach may cure his ills. And be cheaper and smarter than shit-canning the guy.

But before he can get on the shrink's couch, Doc will have to back-up the bus that he drove over the kid. 

Daryl Morey got some thinking to do.

But if a trade is decided, and it might be given Doc's comments, IMO someone will take a shot they can fix him and trade 80-90 cents on the dollar to try. But he's still cashing huge checks for the next 4 years.
Title: Ben [Dover] & [ICE] Trae
Post by: chipstern on June 21, 2021, 12:26:19 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on June 21, 2021, 11:34:21 AM
Kid- Last week, you had the Celts shopping Jaylen and thought Simmons was a good value.

We disagreed.

Where are you today?


Carlos-I can't see Philly giving Simmons away. At least yet. If he can clear his head of shooting fears, he can be still be a star. So fix first is probably the smartest path to take. A combo of shrink's couch and shooting coach may cure his ills. And be cheaper and smarter than shit-canning the guy.

But before he can get on the shrink's couch, Doc will have to back-up the bus that he drove over the kid. 

Daryl Morey got some thinking to do.

But if a trade is decided, and it might be given Doc's comments, IMO someone will take a shot they can fix him and trade 80-90 cents on the dollar to try. But he's still cashing huge checks for the next 4 years.

Simmons is CLEARLY flawed, but he is not a bum.  He had like what, 13 assists and 7 boards, and surely had something to do with Young's poor shooting game.  He is an elite defender and has tremendous size and athleticism. 

But the end game difference between the relative attitudes and tenacity of Ben and Trae surely speaks to a level of confidence and tenacity that is strangely missing from Ben and abundant in Trae. 

One also has to wonder about the relative level of coaching Doc and Nate conferred on their PGs. 

Trae still tends to be kind of fast and loose with the ball, but under Nate he was much more conscious of getting his team mates involved, and more focused on facilitating. 

Then at game's end, despite stinking up the joint as a shooter [some credit to Ben, no?], Trae still notched significant assists, and was a threat who needed to be guarded. 

That parking lot three at game's end is illustrative of Trae's confidence and aggression.  Like our own RJ, he has NO REAR VIEW MIRROR, and is always looking to make the next big play.  I mean, Trae was 5-23, so Simmons defense amounted to something, although I'm not sure if he was the primary defender. 

Hawks beat Philly without 6'8" starting SF DeAndre Hunter [who gave Julius FITS in the first round], Cam Reddish or an ambulatory Bogdonavich. 

Again, as per Facil, I KNOW as Knicks fans, we are supposed to disdain Ice Trae, but I LOVE HIM.  A worthy adversary, who under Nate's tutelage, as evolved from a flash in the pan one man team, to a real LEADER.

PS: How about dem SUNS?  Cameron Payne holding the fort while CP3 passes through the protocols, DeAndre, Mikal, and FUCKING DEVIN BOOKER, who looked like the second coming of JERRY WEST out there.  Great duel with Paul George, speaking of "chokers" who has risen to the challenge with Kawhi out of action.  This series could easily go seven, because the Clips have got no quit in them. 

PPS: Wouldn't a Suns-Hawks Finals be a MF? 

PPPS: I share the schadenfreude regarding the fucking Lakers.

PPPPS:  Here's a thought.  Embid at Center.  Tobias at PF.  Simmons at SF.  And get yourself a PG.  Simmons will NEVER BE MAGIC JOHNSON, but there is no reason he could not be Draymond Green.  Well, there are several reasons, mostly psychic, but the talent and size is there. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 21, 2021, 02:03:52 PM
My thought was to run Simmons at center with Randle, Barrett and two guys who could legit play PG. Simmons is bigger than Taj or Noel and has enough force to fit. Handle, scoring, and passing more than make up for any fall off in rim protection which Simmons has to provide if that becomes his focus. If he had gotten switched on Young that would have been fine, but I mainly would have wanted him on Capella.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 21, 2021, 02:17:52 PM
I went to let the cold light of numbers illuminate my emotional impression of the balding spittoon.

He gets about one fta for every three fga so far this post season. That combined with his high assists and low-ish turnovers makes me concede that whether or not he’s getting most favored player status he must still be pretty good at this basketball stuff.

That said, he’s still currently my least favorite player in the league. I hope in balance that this is the high point at least in his early career and that the next stretch is disappointing and frustrating to both him and his fans.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on June 21, 2021, 03:13:34 PM
Quote
PPS: Wouldn't a Suns-Hawks Finals be a MF? 

that's the one I've been rooting for.

its a nice antidote to the Lakers sucking up superstars like a malignant black hole.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Hamilton Samuels on June 21, 2021, 03:37:27 PM
The NBA has to be pretty pissed off that it didn't get a PHI-Bklyn conference final as it would have killed in the ratings.

Now? Bucks-Hawks?

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.....

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 21, 2021, 04:56:38 PM
I’m ready to see Jrue give Trae the business.

Philly and Brooklyn were two of the ugliest teams that at least made the play in. Nobody needs to see them anymore.

The four teams left make a much better cap to the postseason.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 21, 2021, 05:03:56 PM
Keeping my eye on Quita and Cockburn as two real centers to develop in this draft, along w the UNC kid and Bassey.
Title: Wow
Post by: chipstern on June 21, 2021, 06:01:21 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 21, 2021, 02:03:52 PM
My thought was to run Simmons at center with Randle, Barrett and two guys who could legit play PG. Simmons is bigger than Taj or Noel and has enough force to fit. Handle, scoring, and passing more than make up for any fall off in rim protection which Simmons has to provide if that becomes his focus. If he had gotten switched on Young that would have been fine, but I mainly would have wanted him on Capella.

A center?

Yikes.

A Small Forward.

Yes.

A center?

In what alternative universe.

Noel was outmanned  by Capella. 

Simmons?

Expletive deleted.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 21, 2021, 06:40:28 PM
Kid- Last week, you had the Celts shopping Jaylen and thought Simmons was a good value.

We disagreed.

Where are you today

I like the swap for the Celtics.

I also wouldnt mind Simmons here in NY.

If you feel Boston can get it done with JB and JT, thats fine - I wont argue.  My view is more of a "don't give up on Ben just yet" thing.  As you know I feel Rivers is awful and this series was no different.  I think if I am coaching Simmons I am using him differently offensively.  Same as with L Ball.  Time will tell - we will see if their new coaches agree.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 21, 2021, 06:46:56 PM
Quote from: Hamilton Samuels on June 21, 2021, 03:37:27 PM
The NBA has to be pretty pissed off that it didn't get a PHI-Bklyn conference final as it would have killed in the ratings.

Now? Bucks-Hawks?

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.....

Should be excellent.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 21, 2021, 07:47:34 PM
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-pKPwDUZHjOA/YNEkx9rN6bI/AAAAAAAAFzA/L6KZJm6ewV4_QelByXzIYL5lrRns84NegCLcBGAsYHQ/w520-h640/Screen%2BShot%2B2021-06-21%2Bat%2B7.45.02%2BPM.png)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on June 21, 2021, 09:00:25 PM
https://knicksmecca.blogspot.com/2021/06/a-surprising-disappointing-season.html (https://knicksmecca.blogspot.com/2021/06/a-surprising-disappointing-season.html)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 21, 2021, 09:22:52 PM
Quote from: Kam on June 21, 2021, 07:47:34 PM
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-pKPwDUZHjOA/YNEkx9rN6bI/AAAAAAAAFzA/L6KZJm6ewV4_QelByXzIYL5lrRns84NegCLcBGAsYHQ/w520-h640/Screen%2BShot%2B2021-06-21%2Bat%2B7.45.02%2BPM.png)

cute
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on June 21, 2021, 10:21:55 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on June 21, 2021, 06:40:28 PM
Kid- Last week, you had the Celts shopping Jaylen and thought Simmons was a good value.

We disagreed.

Where are you today

I like the swap for the Celtics.

I also wouldnt mind Simmons here in NY.

If you feel Boston can get it done with JB and JT, thats fine - I wont argue. 

My view is more of a "don't give up on Ben just yet" thing.  As you know I feel Rivers is awful and this series was no different.  I think if I am coaching Simmons I am using him differently offensively.  Same as with L Ball.  Time will tell - we will see if their new coaches agree.

I think JnJ are a pretty good duo to build a future on and contend for a title. But you changed the debate.

You wanted to trade Simmons straight up for Brown. And you can feel that way, and I will continue to disagree,
But given the fact that Simmons devalued himself with his recent performance, and many are calling for Philly to trade him, as his inability to shoot is puzzling, and he hasn't gotten better in 4 years, while Brown has shown steady improvement and may turn into a stud, wouldn't that give you pause to re-evaluate Brown for Simmons as a huge overpay for the Celts?

Its fucking straight out insane.

And no one is saying "give up on Ben" I said earlier today, "shrink's couch and shooting coach" and try to fix his head and confidence and not sell for 50 cents on the dollar.

And in a fantasy world I could see a defensive oriented passer playing along side the JnJ, and orchestrate the offense, if not for the fact I'm not sure Philly would want Simmons in the same division. Just in case.

Now if you wouldn't mind seeing him on the Knicks, what would be fair value for Simmons for the Knicks to give up, using Jaylen as a fair value proxy?   
Title: Responding for Chamaco 😜
Post by: carlos123 on June 21, 2021, 11:29:33 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on June 21, 2021, 10:21:55 PM

Now if you wouldn't mind seeing him on the Knicks, what would be fair value for Simmons for the Knicks to give up, using Jaylen as a fair value proxy?   

Kevin Knox 😊

heh

- Chamaco’s Patriotism is for the white race only. -
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 22, 2021, 12:58:30 AM
Quote from: FWK00 on June 21, 2021, 09:00:25 PM
https://knicksmecca.blogspot.com/2021/06/a-surprising-disappointing-season.html (https://knicksmecca.blogspot.com/2021/06/a-surprising-disappointing-season.html)

Good take. I’d like the inside track guys back. Camaraderie and continuity are not to be sneezed at if the dollars involved the aren’t too outrageous.
Title: Trader Sick
Post by: chipstern on June 22, 2021, 02:08:12 AM
Why in the name of all that is holy would the Celtics trade Jaylen Brown. 

He is a foundational piece, who has gotten significantly better every year.   And is a high character young man. 

Brown for Simmons? 

MORONIC. 

Knicks trading for BEN. 

Quantum Physics Levels Of DUMB.  It's a cliche to diss his skill set.  But we don't need a taller Elfrid Payton.  He has not gotten better.  Whereas someone like Lonzo Ball has demonstrably improved his FT shooting, though he does not get to the line enough, and his three point shooting.  One can make a case for a growth curve. 

Ben?

Does not exactly evoke images of Kobe Bryant and Jerry Rice, whose confidence was grounded not only in immense talent, but a ferocious, terrifying commitment to sustaining and advancing their technical and spiritual command. 

Simmons getting a lot of blame. 

Doc didn't exactly cover himself in glory. 

Sixers could sure use a point guard. 

Kyle Lowry seems custom made.  Then shift Ben to small forward. 

Don't see how Lowry becomes a Sixer, given his desire for one BIG final contract, and Philly's utter lack of cap space. 

Lot of speculation about Knicks pursuing big ticket items. 

I don't see it. 

Received wisdom also holds that they will not add three rookies to their roster, as in 19,21,32.

Why NOT? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 22, 2021, 04:14:33 AM
We could facilitate a Lowery trade, sending Toronto 21, 56, and Knox. Toronto S&Ts Lowery to Philly. Philly sends Ben and Shake Milton to us plus some additional sweeteners to Toronto.

Toronto advances it’s rebuild. Philly breaks up the bad Embid-Simmons pairing and gets their hero and probably saves themselves some money.

Before free agency we’d have:

Mitch Pelle
Randle Toppin
Simmons
Barrett Quickley
Milton Viladosa

Pick 19
Pick 32

Having spent 76 mil this year with extensions possible for Mitch and Randle. If we hold out on those extensions, we’d have about 40 mil to go after a guy like Lonzo or Norm or Oubre and the get back some of this years high contributing vets, or try for Klaw or CP3. I prefer pursuing the 20 mil guys, like the three mentioned earlier than the max guys with much less tread left on them.

I pick Trey Murphy III or Jeremiah Robinson Earl if not both.

I wouldn’t reject skipping the wandering eyes to use the remaining cash and exceptions to retain Taj, Bullock, Burks, and Rose for the next couple of years

Mitch Taj Pelle
Randle Obi JRE
Simmons Bullock Murphy III
Barrett Burks Quickley
Rose Milton Viladosa

That’s a hell of a war band under Thibs. Future assets would all be intact.

Simmons is young enough and skilled enough that his shooting can be brought along which will open up his game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 22, 2021, 11:58:14 AM
Facil

You seem to be intent on committing 35-40 million through 2025 on a roll of the dice.

That is franchise player money.

Simmons has certain top tier physical attributes.

But mentally?  And in five years he has not demanded coverage on the most rudimentary catch and shoot, let alone treys.

If he is a poor match for Embid, how does he project with Randle.  You deride Young as a chickenshit.   But are willing to go all in on a pussywillow.

Sorry dude but this strikes me as Bargnani 2.1
Title: Small Forward For The Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 22, 2021, 12:16:51 PM
Bullock has not demonstrated that he can create his own shot, but he is often lethal on the catch and shoot.  And an excellent defender.

Simmons bigger and an excellent defender but does not command coverage.

As Dawg pointed out, Randle would be looking at a tsunami of doubles and triples.

Simmons might project as a small forward, but it takes more than length and athleticism.  YOU SIMPLY HAVE TO GET OFFENSIVE PRODUCTION OUT OF YOUR 3.  You gonna team Julius with Mitchell AND Ben?

Prototypical modern 3&Ds?

DeAndre Hunter gave Julius fits.

And Mikal Bridges is giving the Suns yeoman minutes.

Both are savage defenders who can put the ball on the floor [AND] drain the three. 

On a team that is short on shooting. You project going all in on the league's preeminent nonshooter
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 22, 2021, 01:33:16 PM
Ben makes some sense as as small-ball Center for a team like Minnesota or Portland or Golden State.    Teams with perimeter shooting already.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 22, 2021, 05:09:58 PM
From 3

Randle > .400
Barrett > .400
And if we get them back
Bullock > .400
Burks > .400
Rose > .400

Quickley & Obi are coming along in that department.

We can do the smallball center thing which would give Ben the biggest advantage. We have the shooters.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 22, 2021, 05:56:15 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 22, 2021, 05:09:58 PM
From 3

Randle > .400
Barrett > .400
And if we get them back
Bullock > .400
Burks > .400
Rose > .400

Quickley & Obi are coming along in that department.

We can do the smallball center thing which would give Ben the biggest advantage. We have the shooters.

Christ.

We Have MITCHELL!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 22, 2021, 07:16:28 PM
We do have Mitchell and I keep forgetting about the Kadashian thing.

We can save some money on the Ben thing and draft Sandro with one of our picks. He’s as nice as Ben at the same size with a legit jumper. Just have to hope he can develop the defense to be playable.

What’s your plan, Oh Swami Stern? I looked back, but all I could find were your random thoughts…
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 22, 2021, 07:51:21 PM
Picking BUCKS and CLIPPERS
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 22, 2021, 07:52:17 PM
Good artuicle today stating six teams that may deal for Simmons.

No Knicks.  Pacers and Bulls included, with Portland, Denver and a couple others
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 22, 2021, 08:01:35 PM
Quote from: chipstern on June 22, 2021, 05:56:15 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 22, 2021, 05:09:58 PM
From 3

Randle > .400
Barrett > .400
And if we get them back
Bullock > .400
Burks > .400
Rose > .400

Quickley & Obi are coming along in that department.

We can do the smallball center thing which would give Ben the biggest advantage. We have the shooters.

Christ.

We Have MITCHELL!!!

Hahaha

Prior to the season I asked just how much we would be willing to offer Mr Robinson when his pact came due.

After a 31 game season, I ask the same question.

Play him out at 1.8 mil - use him in deal if to our advantage
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 22, 2021, 08:04:47 PM
You seem to be intent on committing 35-40 million through 2025 on a roll of the dice.


heh

Only question with Simmons is if he will be very very good or be great.

Not real sure there is a Knicks salary match, though we could use some or all of our cap space

Players not knocking on the door to MSG.  We are improving but Thibs is still a taskmaster not to everyone's looking.  Therefore TRADING for an already long term signed guy is appealing.

By the way, FUCK Magic Johnson.  No.  Philly does not NEED to deal BS - and YES - Ben could still prosper there
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 22, 2021, 08:34:39 PM
Randle to Warriors for a package including one of their lottery picks
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 22, 2021, 08:35:29 PM
Steph, Klay, Draymond, Julius, Wiseman.  Wiggins if still there.
Title: Chamaco back at it
Post by: carlos123 on June 22, 2021, 08:53:52 PM
6 posts in a row spewing garbage. Chamaco definitely wants to kill the forum.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3edF5HU8u_55ayPeYf3QTWIIqfeJgwg2XTyoL0BpMb9KBce9Hb7OoNeiBrsk155yoh4iOF3TKnscVXGHRxbA04rfLnSbxU83jcKgmNDHL24-z6MzcAbMutqh9FJU5b6gOyzRzzdzJRSxluRdy1aSerO=w626-h570-no?authuser=0)

- Chamaco's Patriotism is for the white race ONLY. -
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 22, 2021, 08:57:05 PM
Raptors move up to 4.  Will be better than us next year.

Pistons get CUNNINGHAM.

(Or Suggs)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 22, 2021, 09:25:17 PM
The raptors will be better than team Ammo or team Jimmer, otherwise I don’t know this “us” you pretend to be referring to.
Title: The Swami's Plan
Post by: chipstern on June 22, 2021, 10:27:49 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 22, 2021, 07:16:28 PM
We do have Mitchell and I keep forgetting about the Kadashian thing.

We can save some money on the Ben thing and draft Sandro with one of our picks. He’s as nice as Ben at the same size with a legit jumper. Just have to hope he can develop the defense to be playable.

What’s your plan, Oh Swami Stern? I looked back, but all I could find were your random thoughts…

My plan?

Hahaha.  That's rich.  As if I had some special insights. 

If I had my druthers, I would proceed very conservatively, very cautiously.

In terms of free agents?  2022 seems a better class to swing for the fences.

I'm fascinated by your bold proposals.

However, as gifted as a Ben Simmons is, his is a flawed game, more tellingly, a very flawed character.  A WEAK character.  He's had what, five years, the Sixers gave him franchise money, and what?  My reading of him is that he would wilt under the bright lights of NY.  And while you and I might be projecting him as a 3&D SF or a feathery five, and while he made very well make a positive impact doing so on the right team [I've seen CJ McCollum for Simmons proposals floated], the Knicks are not the one.  And to tie up 35-40 million through 2025 strikes me as irresponsible infatuation with the shiny object.  In the summer/fall of 2020, Rose and Aller and Perry showed that they are not going down that road. 

Okay, so which of our own free agents do we keep?  That will trigger many of our other decisions about free agents and draft picks. 

I think Payton and Frank are goners.  Jared Harper played great in G League, but Thibs gave him no daylight.  Pinson is a cheerleader, and Rose loves him, so there's that.  I don't think it is written in stone that Knox is out of here; Kenny Payne put a lot of work into his game.  And who else do we have.  Well, Bullock and Burks are SG/SF, as is RJ.  Knox projects more as a SF/PF, but of course that is predicated on being able to defend at the 3 & 4, and so far, KK has not projected as a DeAndre Hunter. 

Bullock and/or Burks.  Noel.  Would they come back on another one year pact?  How much of a raise would they figure to demand?  How much do we give?  I think Pelle projects as capable of giving us an honest 10-15 a night, in the event, quite likely, alas, that Noel seeks out bigger bucks and guaranteed minutes.  Does Thibs trust Randle and/or Toppin to be small ball fives?  How ready will Mitchell Robinson be?  I think we are still committed to him.  Do we reach for a big with 19,21 or 32? 

Taj and Rose are coin flips.  I really want to see Rose back, for more than 7 million per?  And not for more than 20-25 minutes a game.  I think Taj gives Thibs a certain comfort level, but he is 35 and would rather see Obi get his minutes and be tossed into the deep end of the pool. 

How our new PG Vildoza plays in the Olympics will trigger a lot of decisions vis a vis the draft and subsequently in summer league wherein we might discover if Quickley is ready to step up as a facilitator and if Vildoza is more than a mirage?  Will Rose be back?  That will also trigger draft and free agency decisions. 

Ah, free agency? 

I am not in favor of going Cuckoo For Cocoa Puffs. 

Prudent conservative moves. 

I love Kyle Lowry, but big bucks, multiple years?  Kemba Walker anyone? 

I wouldn't (and this from someone who is eating crow over Chris Paul, although, that was never really on the table, was it?).  Trading for Ben Simmons?  No thanks. 

Now, if we kept Rose and Vildoza, might we pursue a Leon Rose one year not crazy contract for the likes of wily vets such as, oh, Mike Conley, Goran Dragic.  Might someone like Spencer Dimwiddie be worth giving Bobby Portis numbers for one year, just to prove he has come all the way back.  A big PG with a nice all around game.  Not crazy good, but pretty darn good, and not lacking in confidence like the late lamented Elfrid. 

If Burks looks to walk, might we give someone like Normal Powell a look see? 

More ambitious than Dimwiddie?  I believe the Knicks front office is split on Lonzo Ball, and if it cost more than say Fred Van Vleet money, say 4 x 85, not sure I would go there.  But certainly worthy of consideration. 

Otherwise, you tell me. 

Do we re-up Julius say at 100 million for another 4 years?  Does that get it done?  I think he wants to be here, and is not inclined to want Melo numbers at the cost of building a good team around him. 

If Taj AND Nerlens are not here, might we revisit one Bobby Portis, BoD's disdain notwithstanding.  In roughly the same 20 some minutes a game he played for us at C-PF, BP knocked down 47% of his treys, and collected 7 boards and 11 points per. 

Again, my PLANS?  I think Rose is going to try and bring back most of our vets.  Remains to be seen who walks.  And if we trust Vildoza and Quicks to do what Payton and Rose did.  Do we draft a young PG? 

And for God's sake, cut down on Randle and Barrett's minutes.  You know they are going to work like crazy in the offseason to address shortcomings Atlanta revealed in the playoffs, but clearly part of the problem was that they were burnt the fuck out. 

Otherwise, you will notice no fantasies about Doncic, Dame, Beal, Zion. 

This year was not a tanker, but it was transitional. 

I see 2021-22 in roughly the same light.  ROME WASN'T BUILT IN A DAY, and neither should Rose's Knicks. 

I see 2021-22 as a preamble to a bigger more aggressive free agent push in 2022-2023. 

Anyway, you wanted a plan.  Sustain our cap space, max out our draft assets and remain patient in terms of developing our culture. 

That's all I've got.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 22, 2021, 10:33:51 PM
However, as gifted as a Ben Simmons is, his is a flawed game, more tellingly, a flawed character.


Nah - quite an unfair take

But we'll see.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on June 23, 2021, 12:31:59 AM
I don't know if Simmons has a flawed character, that seems a little harsh, but he has lost some swagger, he's playing scared, and he needs to find his confidence if he wants to be the player it seems he could be.

That was a helluva game tonight, although the last couple minutes took forever to view and review.

That pass from Crowder, in that situation, was a thing of beauty.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 23, 2021, 12:50:30 AM
So, to paraphrase Chip, “I’d like us to go conservative, but here are some potential big names we could go after.” Admittedly, most were brought up with reasons Chip would avoid them, but still.

I’d rather come out of the draft with one good rook and one rotation worthy vet than four middling to late picks. I can see giving another spot to a developmental situational rookie, but not more than that. We need proper villains up and down the roster (hat tip to Don Cheadle). Only room for one pup too weak to pull the sled.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 23, 2021, 03:05:55 AM
Another look:

Send some draft capital to NO for Ball in a sign and trade. Make a big splash offer to Norman Powell. Then use exceptions and whatever remaining cap space to bring back Rose, Burks, and Gibson

Mitch Taj Pelle
Randle Obi
Barrett Knox
Powell Burks Quickley
Rose Ball Viladosa

Get two of Virginia’s Murphy III or Nova’s JRE or Pirate Sandro. 

We’d add shooting, scoring, and fluidity without sacrificing on D 

I like it and I think it’s far from impossible to pull off.
Title: Interesting chart
Post by: Kam on June 23, 2021, 11:22:18 AM
For those looking into trade possibilities this chart  (http://www.tankathon.com/power_rankings)ranks each team's draft capital for this draft.

Knicks own the 9th best draft when all picks are considered while the Kings own the 10th best draft value. 
So in theory the Knicks could trade their draft picks (19,21,32,58) for the Kings picks (9,39) and it would be considered a slight win for the Kings
That's just an example.  And of course doesn't consider other assets that could be used in a trade like players, salary dumps, or future picks.
Sacramento would obviously prefer to deal down with New Orleans while the Knicks could talk to the Magic about the 8th pick.

They assign a value to every pick in the draft and rank teams based on the sum of their pick values. Data from previous draft picks' performance, playing time, and salaries are factored into a pick's score. The height of each pick in the chart is a loose representation of its value.

Some somewhat surprising observations:
The NETS own 4 picks in the draft
The Bucks 31st pick has more value than the Suns 29th pick and Utah's 30th pick (shouldn't the NBA look into fixing that?)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on June 23, 2021, 04:15:17 PM
Brad hires Ime Udoka as Celt's new HC.

Fruit from the Pop tree

Reportedly received blessing from Tatum Brown & Smart who knew him from TEAM USA in '19.

Good luck Mr. Udoka
 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 23, 2021, 04:48:58 PM
Good hire. I wish him well except against us.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 23, 2021, 05:22:27 PM
I don't know if Simmons has a flawed character, that seems a little harsh, but he has lost some swagger, he's playing scared, and he needs to find his confidence if he wants to be the player it seems he could be.


Castrated by his coach, who then has the balls to say he can fix him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 23, 2021, 05:24:43 PM
Anyway, you wanted a plan.  Sustain our cap space, max out our draft assets and remain patient in terms of developing our culture.


USE the cap space by maxing our draft assets.

Look at what your beloved Suns did.  J Jones didnt bring in ultra young guys or rely on newly drafted players.  They were experienced.

Go to work, Leon.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jerrya on June 23, 2021, 05:53:11 PM
The priority in the off season should be  to acquire some shooters.  X's and O's are important but without some dependable shooters it means nothing. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 23, 2021, 10:45:50 PM
Knicks need a stud, period, Jerry

If you want to hope we get it at 19, well......

good luck with that
Title: KyRIE
Post by: chipstern on June 23, 2021, 11:01:01 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on June 23, 2021, 04:15:17 PM
Brad hires Ime Udoka as Celt's new HC.

Fruit from the Pop tree

Reportedly received blessing from Tatum Brown & Smart who knew him from TEAM USA in '19.

Good luck Mr. Udoka

Good hire. 

MEANWHILE, a tree grows in Brooklyn.

Bank, just in case you missed it, poop coming out of Nyets Central is that the owners and management are not pleased with Kyrie Irving's shenanigans.  And might be willing to shop him. 

Can a ludicrous Brad Dressler Knicks trade fantasy be far behind. 

Unbelievable talent.

Enervating douche. 

I'll take Dimwiddie. 
Title: Trae
Post by: chipstern on June 23, 2021, 11:01:35 PM
My

GOD

Somewhere, Meadowlark Lemon and Pistol Pete are smiling. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on June 23, 2021, 11:04:24 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on June 23, 2021, 05:22:27 PM


Castrated by his coach, who then has the balls to say he can fix him.

Castrated, lol, he got called out, exactly like he should have been— after costing his entire team a spot in the Eastern conference finals.

“He doesn’t work, he doesn’t listen, and everyone around him is family, and he’s constantly babied,” the source told Smith.

It's fully on him. He's got the chance now to fix himself.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on June 23, 2021, 11:08:20 PM
Cinderella is still dancing

and Hawks flying high

Trae's making a name for himself

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 23, 2021, 11:08:31 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on June 23, 2021, 11:04:24 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on June 23, 2021, 05:22:27 PM


Castrated by his coach, who then has the balls to say he can fix him.

Castrated, lol, he got called out, exactly like he should have been— after costing his entire team a spot in the Eastern conference finals.

“He doesn’t work, he doesn’t listen, and everyone around him is family, and he’s constantly babied,” the source told Smith.

It's fully on him. He's got the chance now to fix himself.

Thank you. 

Again look at Jaylen Brown. 

A MAN.

Then look at Simmons. 

A PUSSY. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on June 23, 2021, 11:17:32 PM
Quote
Bank, just in case you missed it, poop coming out of Nyets Central is that the owners and management are not pleased with Kyrie Irving's shenanigans.  And might be willing to shop him. 

Injuries happen, but he's no-showed so many games the past few years, and left teams stranded. Add that to his prima dona me-me-me attitude and I could see where he wears out welcomes, so I'm not shocked Net mgmt might re-think their commitment to KI.

"Million dollar arm 10-cent head" was said years ago about some stud pitcher, but that's Kyrie, except adjusted for inflation its more like

Forty million dollar handle-10-cent head.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 23, 2021, 11:25:50 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on June 23, 2021, 11:17:32 PM
Quote
Bank, just in case you missed it, poop coming out of Nyets Central is that the owners and management are not pleased with Kyrie Irving's shenanigans.  And might be willing to shop him. 

Injuries happen, but he's no-showed so many games the past few years, and left teams stranded. Add that to his prima dona me-me-me attitude and I could see where he wears out welcomes, so I'm not shocked Net mgmt might re-think their commitment to KI.

"Million dollar arm 10-cent head" was said years ago about some stud pitcher, but that's Kyrie, except adjusted for inflation its more like

Forty million dollar handle-10-cent head.

What's really infuriating is that one second he'll do something selfless and spiritual and generous, and in the next, the actions of a self-absorbed martinet.   
Title: Kyrie
Post by: carlos123 on June 23, 2021, 11:38:30 PM
I don’t want him on my team. Great sometimes, but just too unpredictable and unreliable.

Meanwhile, Fac, sorry to rub it in but… wasn’t Jrue going to school Trae? Wow, amazing!

Hawks all the way! I hope they win it all.

Another meanwhile, and it’s not basketball, but my Amazins keep on amazin’, finding ways to win with half their pitchers down. Incredible! Very proud of manager Rojas.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 24, 2021, 01:45:23 AM
Jrue did fine.

Refs and Capella carried Trae over the hump.

I just worry kids will want to play like him, ushering in an era of ugly and god-awful basketball.

Middleton needs to hit his shots.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 24, 2021, 12:09:56 PM
Carlyle to Pacers. He wasn’t out of work very long.
Title: Re: KyRIE
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 24, 2021, 01:50:08 PM
Quote from: chipstern on June 23, 2021, 11:01:01 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on June 23, 2021, 04:15:17 PM
Brad hires Ime Udoka as Celt's new HC.

Fruit from the Pop tree

Reportedly received blessing from Tatum Brown & Smart who knew him from TEAM USA in '19.

Good luck Mr. Udoka

Good hire. 

MEANWHILE, a tree grows in Brooklyn.

Bank, just in case you missed it, poop coming out of Nyets Central is that the owners and management are not pleased with Kyrie Irving's shenanigans.  And might be willing to shop him. 

Can a ludicrous Brad Dressler Knicks trade fantasy be far behind. 

Unbelievable talent.

Enervating douche. 

I'll take Dimwiddie.

Or even his cousin, Dinwiddie

No way Nets deal KI.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 24, 2021, 01:51:45 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on June 23, 2021, 11:17:32 PM
Quote
Bank, just in case you missed it, poop coming out of Nyets Central is that the owners and management are not pleased with Kyrie Irving's shenanigans.  And might be willing to shop him. 

Injuries happen, but he's no-showed so many games the past few years, and left teams stranded. Add that to his prima dona me-me-me attitude and I could see where he wears out welcomes, so I'm not shocked Net mgmt might re-think their commitment to KI.

"Million dollar arm 10-cent head" was said years ago about some stud pitcher, but that's Kyrie, except adjusted for inflation its more like

Forty million dollar handle-10-cent head.

Heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 24, 2021, 02:58:59 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 24, 2021, 01:45:23 AM
Jrue did fine.

Refs and Capella carried Trae over the hump.

I just worry kids will want to play like him, ushering in an era of ugly and god-awful basketball.

Middleton needs to hit his shots.

Go figure. 

I find you disdain for Trae truly baffling. 

You talk about him as if he were some punk.  You were willing to entertain trades for Gentle Ben, who showed little heart or pulse in the playoffs, but Trae has taken the Hawks to the ECFinals and you are still pissing and moaning about him as if he were some poseur. 

UGLY AND GOD AWFUL?  For real? 

Kid has game. 

Kid has HEART.

An thanks to Nate, an improving head for the game.  The Team Game. 

Great court vision, wily passer.  And YES, like LUKA, he sometimes goes into the HEATCHECK ZONE, but good grief, the sheer threat of him making some bonkers shot keeps defenses open, and creates easy looks for the likes of Capella. 

He has no fear, and out size gonads for a mere Lilliputian.  I call him ICE TRAE. 

The Hawks are missing their starting SF, the 6'8" DeAndre Hunter, who gave Julius fits in the opening round on D, and who is a reliable offensive option and outside threat.  They are also missing Cam Reddish, a rotation player at SF/PF, and BB's injury has neutered his impact.  And they are still winning and pulling out hotly contested games against top tier opponents. 

And sure enough, it was a Knicks "fan" [not you] who chose to spit on him. 

Oh, and Jrue had a great game, and is a stout defender and his shot after clutch shot, giving as good as he got.  The refs didn't gift anything to Trae.  I hope IQ is taking notes. 

Luka's back in the Balkans, firing up the BarbieQ and Trae is contesting for the NBA finals.

Give it up for the kid. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 24, 2021, 05:53:52 PM
Nah. Fuck him.

He’s very skilled.

His game fits the way that the league has been stacked.

He reads the game well.

He’s pretty fearless.

All of that’s fine.

The league likes him as a Curry replacement for the next decade so refs mask his blunders on both ends with a crooked whistle.

And he’s an ass, or at least he very much seems like an ass.

I hope he loses every time he steps on the court.

Title: Would The He Were A Knick, Eh?
Post by: chipstern on June 24, 2021, 06:17:09 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 24, 2021, 05:53:52 PM
Nah. Fuck him.

He’s very skilled.

His game fits the way that the league has been stacked.

He reads the game well.

He’s pretty fearless.

All of that’s fine.

The league likes him as a Curry replacement for the next decade so refs mask his blunders on both ends with a crooked whistle.

And he’s an ass, or at least he very much seems like an ass.

I hope he loses every time he steps on the court.

(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-i83FqxtbPzU/WuYVvPXh8AI/AAAAAAAAGK0/Qz3sZP9s1VA9ZE3eWfpeLr8iTdo2svvgQCLcBGAs/s320/dd2.jpg)

(https://i.redd.it/qdaoekdtufu41.jpg)

(https://media3.giphy.com/media/cPTtxJfgzsSfvPs7s7/200.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 24, 2021, 06:24:40 PM
He’s exactly as annoying as Jimmer would have been if Jimmer been any good.
Title: Well Now
Post by: chipstern on June 24, 2021, 07:23:56 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 24, 2021, 06:24:40 PM
He’s exactly as annoying as Jimmer would have been if Jimmer been any good.

WTF?

If you are in NY, you are welcome to slide by my crib, and I'll be happy to offer you my PAX3 as a peace pipe of sorts, for a thrill or simply to chill.  Maybe Dawg can join us. 
Title: Second Guessing The 2018 Draft
Post by: chipstern on June 24, 2021, 08:29:48 PM
1   1   PHO   Deandre Ayton   Arizona   3   178   5534   2846   1892   296   .588   .189   .756   31.1   16.0   10.6   1.7   17.4   .151   0.5   3.5

2   2   SAC   Marvin Bagley III   Duke   3   118   3013   1716   886   115   .500   .314   .663   25.5   14.5   7.5   1.0   5.3   .085   -2.1   -0.1

3   3   ATL   Luka Dončić      3   199   6627   5115   1663   1534   .457   .331   .735   33.3   25.7   8.4   7.7   21.4   .155   6.3   13.8

4   4   MEM   Jaren Jackson Jr.   Michigan State   3   126   3395   1946   596   154   .480   .374   .765   26.9   15.4   4.7   1.2   7.5   .106   0.1   1.8

5   5   DAL   Trae Young   Oklahoma   3   204   6748   4921   801   1807   .431   .343   .861   33.1   24.1   3.9   8.9   16.3   .116   2.2   7.0

6   6   ORL   Mo Bamba   Texas   3   155   2369   991   800   116   .471   .325   .646   15.3   6.4   5.2   0.7   5.9   .120   -0.3   1.0

7   7   CHI   Wendell Carter Jr.   Duke   3   141   3741   1545   1155   233   .506   .241   .749   26.5   11.0   8.2   1.7   8.6   .110   -1.9   0.1

8   8   CLE   Collin Sexton   Alabama   3   207   6863   4180   627   697   .458   .385   .831   33.2   20.2   3.0   3.4   5.4   .038   -2.3   -0.6

9   9   NYK   Kevin Knox   Kentucky   3   182   3788   1545   580   162   .369   .345   .703   20.8   8.5   3.2   0.9   -0.6   -.007   -4.8   -2.6

10   10   PHI   Mikal Bridges   Villanova   3   227   6807   2321   865   454   .497   .376   .830   30.0   10.2   3.8   2.0   15.7   .111   0.7   4.7

11   11   CHO   Shai Gilgeous-Alexander   Kentucky   3   187   5782   3050   810   709   .482   .373   .805   30.9   16.3   4.3   3.8   13.0   .108   1.3   4.8

12   12   LAC   Miles Bridges   Michigan State   3   211   5623   2280   1082   356   .461   .354   .816   26.6   10.8   5.1   1.7   8.8   .075   -1.1   1.3

13   13   LAC   Jerome Robinson   Boston College   3   113   1604   514   208   131   .363   .310   .721   14.2   4.5   1.8   1.2   -0.1   -.003   -4.8   -1.1

14   14   DEN   Michael Porter Jr.   Missouri   2   116   2815   1674   704   116   .532   .439   .806   24.3   14.4   6.1   1.0   9.8   .167   2.5   3.2
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 24, 2021, 09:10:44 PM
You talk about him as if he were some punk.  You were willing to entertain trades for Gentle Ben, who showed little heart or pulse in the playoffs, but Trae has taken the Hawks to the ECFinals and you are still pissing and moaning about him as if he were some poseur.


heh

fucking moron
Title: fucking moron? heh
Post by: carlos123 on June 24, 2021, 10:05:26 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on June 24, 2021, 09:10:44 PM
You talk about him as if he were some punk.  You were willing to entertain trades for Gentle Ben, who showed little heart or pulse in the playoffs, but Trae has taken the Hawks to the ECFinals and you are still pissing and moaning about him as if he were some poseur.


heh

fucking moron

Who the fucking moron?

Gentle Ben or you?

I vote you, Chamaco.

heh

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3dJOy5uiqcahT6YjmYuzQpguetaF2rSxW0PHgwt-RCkG0wbMbCM_CPyUDbTmyBxlFwY70Byn6jYcyUu_CYf4S7ZHsCZ1f-d_rymBVKnle_nlApVAtve6gdfiP-kiCZ1Rhc_YG7wAiibpC0r5pYe3hjj=w626-h570-no?authuser=0)

- Chamaco's Patriotism is only for the while race. -

PS. My Chamaco pictures are not copyright protected. Feel free to copy and use them 😁
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 25, 2021, 11:24:52 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 24, 2021, 06:24:40 PM
He’s exactly as annoying as Jimmer would have been if Jimmer been any good.

Jimmer I heard is actually a really nice guy.
Title: Finals wish
Post by: Kam on June 25, 2021, 11:26:51 AM
I want to see Booker vs Young
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 25, 2021, 11:29:31 AM
Booker 5 for 21

Ouch - that was an ultra important game

Credit to Beverly and his mates
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 25, 2021, 11:43:21 AM
Where is Bo diddley?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on June 25, 2021, 11:59:20 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on June 25, 2021, 11:29:31 AM
Booker 5 for 21

Ouch - that was an ultra important game

Credit to Beverly and his mates

Not making excuses for Booker.

But 7 game championship series on the road and you're up 2-0?

Not an "ultra important game."
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 25, 2021, 12:31:11 PM
Okey doke

Teams win down 1-2 all the time

0-3 is BURIED.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 25, 2021, 12:40:45 PM
I am totally torn this series, actually - as I have picked the Clippers and expect them to win but hate the abuse that will be piled on Chris Paul if Suns lose.
Title: BoZ
Post by: carlos123 on June 25, 2021, 01:54:56 PM
Quote from: Kamster the Magic Hamster on June 25, 2021, 11:43:21 AM
Where is Bo diddley?

Last I heard, he was in China, so two possibilities:

1- people disappear in China all the time. Let’s hope that’s not what happened to BoZ.

2- he’s just scared of my doggie Les 🐶. So he’s avoiding the forum for that reason. Actually, Les is a very nice doggie 🐶, but he barks sometimes and some scaredy-cats are just afraid 😧

- Chamaco’s Patriotism is just for the white race. -
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 25, 2021, 06:50:58 PM
Chip do you still email Bo?  Is he ok?  Say Hi to nagel for me.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 25, 2021, 06:53:05 PM
I still hold out hope Rembee and TomVerve will return.
Title: BoD
Post by: chipstern on June 26, 2021, 01:32:06 AM
Quote from: Kam on June 25, 2021, 06:50:58 PM
Chip do you still email Bo?  Is he ok?  Say Hi to nagel for me.

Kam.

My old computer crashed and died in January 2020, and with it, I lost access to like 4TB of music, and much of my contact information. Including BoD's email information in Shanghai. 

I sent Bo a message via ELBA a few days back, but not sure if he ever received it. 

Nagel is cool.  So is EMann.  Mirasja took our playoff burnout hard.  VERY HARD.  I bump into Mister Earl on Facebook. 

Pharoah and BoD have disappeared into the ether.  Kind thoughts will have to suffice. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 26, 2021, 06:10:40 PM
There’s the Hawks we know and love. Glad someone has finally figured out how to play them in light of the help they get from the league.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 26, 2021, 06:12:59 PM
Thanks for the updates on our outer rim members, Chip. I miss those guys.

I’m wondering if China has cracked down on VPNs as it cracks down on dissidents and tries to absorb more territory. If so, there goes Bo’s link to us.

 

Title: Chamaco and the Clippers
Post by: carlos123 on June 27, 2021, 12:12:39 AM
Chamaco picked the Clippers to win.

Unlikely. Lets see what he comes up with to deny it.

I vote Chamaco to Xinjiang for re-education, in exchange for BoZ.

- Chamaco's Patriotism is only for the while race. -
Title: Re: Chamaco and the Clippers
Post by: chipstern on June 27, 2021, 08:15:44 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on June 27, 2021, 12:12:39 AM
Chamaco picked the Clippers to win.

Unlikely. Lets see what he comes up with to deny it.

I vote Chamaco to Xinjiang for re-education, in exchange for BoZ.

- Chamaco's Patriotism is only for the while race. -

WHILE > White   


Title: Re: Chamaco and the Clippers
Post by: carlos123 on June 27, 2021, 09:47:33 PM
Quote from: chipstern on June 27, 2021, 08:15:44 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on June 27, 2021, 12:12:39 AM
Chamaco picked the Clippers to win.

Unlikely. Lets see what he comes up with to deny it.

I vote Chamaco to Xinjiang for re-education, in exchange for BoZ.

- Chamaco's Patriotism is only for the while race. -

WHILE > White

Yes, thanks for the correction Chip. It was a typo.

Meanwhile, since BoZ seems to have disappeared, in case he's been kidnapped by the Chinese authorities, I'd like to offer them Chamaco in exchange. Then they can send him (Chamaco) to a re-education camp in Xinjiang and BoZ can be sent back to NJ, to live happily ever after.

- Chamaco's Patriotism is only for the white race. -
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 28, 2021, 12:01:14 AM
25-7 finish for Bucks
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 28, 2021, 12:27:07 AM
ECF just got enjoyable. Nice!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 28, 2021, 03:56:06 AM
Billups to Blazers. 5 year deal. Good hire.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 28, 2021, 04:59:20 PM
Hopefully Julius is pissed he just missed the Olympic cut and has another prove em’ wrong off-season where he drags his game kicking and screaming to even higher levels never before imagined.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 28, 2021, 06:05:08 PM
Miles McBride - yep

After the NBA Draft Combine ended Sunday in Chicago, McBride’s stock is rising after measurements and drills erased some questions about his defense. Teams already knew he could shoot. McBride revealed he has staged private workouts for just two teams — the Knicks and Celtics. He figures to be available at either No. 19 or No. 21 — maybe even at No. 32 if the Knicks keep all their picks. If you haven’t heard, the Knicks could sure use a point guard. – via Marc Berman @ New York Post
Title: Actual Factual GREATNESS
Post by: chipstern on June 28, 2021, 06:18:52 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4_av2YVcAAgKU6?format=jpg&name=large)

Reading Loopy Embittered Quotes From Insufferable AssClown Scottie Pippen, Currently Making The Rounds And Sundering What Remains Of His Reputation On His Recent Promotional Tour, One's Mind Wanders To Recollections Of A True Champion, Who Won At Every Level, And Who Has Sustained These Levels Of Achievement & Excellence On AND Off The Court, KAREEM ABDUL JABBAR. The Greatest Of All Time?  GREATNESS For ALL Times, In Any Event.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ec-r58BWsAAAQcd.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 28, 2021, 06:39:36 PM
Fuckin Celtics

“The Celtics were among the teams that I know of that didn’t take Covid seriously,” Mannix said. “They continued to go out on the road, and would find ways to skirt the rules at times when they were traveling. They didn’t take these protocols seriously — not as seriously as some other teams did. Washington, when they had all of their Covid issues back in January and early February, they blamed Boston. They complained to the league that the Celtics, because of what they had heard about players going out in Florida I believe it was, they believed they contracted their issues through the Celtics.”
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 29, 2021, 02:55:44 AM
I really really like Isiah Mobley with one of our top 3 picks. He’ll definitely be gone by the time the last one rolls around.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 29, 2021, 09:50:48 AM
Kareem and Scottie are similar.  Never won on their own.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on June 29, 2021, 09:55:42 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on June 29, 2021, 09:50:48 AM
Kareem and Scottie are similar.  Never won on their own.
Kareem won in 1971 with an Oscar Robertson who was a shadow of his former self. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 29, 2021, 10:24:29 AM
LOL
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on June 29, 2021, 10:27:22 AM
LOL!!! You probably didn't watch games then.  That's okay.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 29, 2021, 02:30:02 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on June 29, 2021, 10:27:22 AM
LOL!!! You probably didn't watch games then.  That's okay.

If he watches them now, he clearly doesn’t understand what he’s seeing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 29, 2021, 06:49:48 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on June 29, 2021, 10:27:22 AM
LOL!!! You probably didn't watch games then.  That's okay.

heh

keep hoisting those prayers, YG.

Oscar was a tremendous player with Alcindor

Dandridge was also an 18-8-4 guy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on June 29, 2021, 07:15:32 PM
Heh. “Kareem never won on his own.” That you view yourself as some sort of basketball savant never fails to amuse me.
Title: Chamaco back at it
Post by: carlos123 on June 29, 2021, 08:37:11 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on June 29, 2021, 07:15:32 PM
Heh. “Kareem never won on his own.” That you view yourself as some sort of basketball savant never fails to amuse me.

Chamaco Cartero just wants to be the center of attention.

- Chamaco's Patriotism is only for the white race. -
Title: Dumber Than A Bag Of Hair
Post by: chipstern on June 29, 2021, 10:16:13 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on June 29, 2021, 07:15:32 PM
Heh. “Kareem never won on his own.” That you view yourself as some sort of basketball savant never fails to amuse me.

I guess it is impossible to completely ignore Man Coulter's breathtakingly specious intellectual drive bys.

Say something palpably STOOPID, and revel in the attention. 

Lew Alcindor won Championships as a High Schooler, perhaps the most recruited hoopster in the history of collegiate ball.  Coach John Wooten impressed this sensitive, intelligent young man by his respectful demeanor, referring to him as LEWIS. 

Three National Championships as the bell cow for UCLA [not 4...freshman were proscribed from varsity play as Freshman, which did not stop the Freshmen from a famous exhibition game against the varsity in which they positively NUKED them].  Never won on his own?  FUCK YOU, Ernst Rohm.  In three years, Lewis/Kareem and his teammates lost precisely one game, a famous confrontation with Elvin Hayes and Houston in the Astrodome.  Jabbar had an injured eye, but never fell back on that as an excuse.  In their NCAA Tournament rematch UCLA simply DESTROYED Houston. 

As a pro he singlehandedly transformed the Bucks Kulture. They fell short in his first year, but then the got The Big O.   

The notion that a brother Elbaite floated about Oscar Robertson being a shell of his self, is simply NOT TRUE.  No, he didn't score at his Cincinnati levels, but he DIDN'T HAVE TO.  In their championship 70-71 season the Big O averaged 19.4 ppg, 5.7 boards and 8.2 assists, with a .850% FT on 385-453 shooting. 

Chris Paul this past season?  16.4 ppg, 4.5 boards, 8.9 assists and a .934% from the FT line. 

NEVER WON ON HIS OWN. 

Moron. 

NOBODY WINS ON THEIR OWN. 

Called Chemistry. 

Knicks had Clyde and Willis.  Did the Knicks ever win without Dave D.

Bob Cousey has eight rings.  Did he have any before Bill Russell. 

Julius Erving.  An All Time GREAT.  Did he win without Moses Malone? 

Jerry West and Elgin Baylor came up short again and again. After Elgin finally broke down, Jerry finally won, but he didn't win until he was paired with Wilt and Gail Goodrich and Jim McMillan and Happy Hairston.  Want to talk about how Jerry didn't win on his own, dipshit? 

Speaking of which, MJ didn't win without Bill Cartwright and Pippen and Horace Grant, so you got THAT bassackwards, numb nutz. 

Jabbar had great co-stars on those Lakers teams; Magic, needless to say, plus McAdoo, Cooper, Nixon, Wilkes, Worthy, Thompson, Scott....BUT KAREEM WAS THE STRAW WHICH STIRRED THE DRINK.  One could just as easily say it was Magic.  What did Magic or any of those great players win without Kareem. 

Kiid, you are a specious spittoon of spittle.   Congrats on another classic drive by shitting.

(https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/76361508.jpg)

Not unlike yourself, assdrip. 



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 29, 2021, 10:19:13 PM
Cam Reddish lives!

What a trade!!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on June 29, 2021, 11:27:46 PM
My knee hurt when I watched GF's bend the wrong way.

That was ugly.

Quote
As a pro he singlehandedly transformed the Bucks Kulture.   

There was no Buck culture before he showed up. To the extent there was a Buck culture he created it.

He was the grand prize for a 1st year franchise which had lost 27 games, (the Suns lost the coin flip-who was their pick-no cheating) 

Having Big O didn't hurt though.



 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on June 29, 2021, 11:31:38 PM
Neil Walk.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on June 29, 2021, 11:35:03 PM
Not quite the player KAJ was.

That was an expensive coin flip for the Suns.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 29, 2021, 11:43:49 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on June 29, 2021, 11:31:38 PM
Neil Walk.

Ha

A serviceable player, but, hey, like when the Bulls got Rose and the Heat got _______. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on June 29, 2021, 11:48:31 PM
That was Beasley. And then Mayo went before Westbrook.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 30, 2021, 05:07:56 AM
Turns out Young was holding the Hawks back.

I’m warming up to Sharife Cooper in the Draft. That kid can play.
Title: Really
Post by: Kam on June 30, 2021, 01:41:41 PM
Who has ever won a title on his own?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 30, 2021, 02:22:45 PM
Rick Barry
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 30, 2021, 02:25:21 PM
Nowitzki, maybe....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 30, 2021, 02:34:45 PM
4 years of NADA in LA for Kareem.

And while in his prime.

heh
Title: The Ones That Got Away V. Lost Causes
Post by: chipstern on June 30, 2021, 08:43:12 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on June 29, 2021, 11:48:31 PM
That was Beasley. And then Mayo went before Westbrook.

And Westbrook AND Love went before Gallinari, much as Curry went before Jordan Hill.  Much as Chuck Person went right before Kenny Walker [who preceded Ron Harper].  The pain never recedes. 

Danilo has struggled with injuries, but has had a solid 16-5-2 career with an .876 FT% and a .382% 3PT stroke--playing his ass off for the Hawks, giving them a great 1-2: Offense/Defense punch off the bench with Cam Reddish] while of course Jordan Hill was a BUM [7.9-5.8-0.8, .699% FT, .136% 3PT], who lasted all of 24 games as a Knick, before he was shipped out of town on a tramp steamer for the Earthly remains of Tracy McGrady. 

PS: Pencil in Kiid for his perennial insistence that it was a great pick and only our willful ignorance prevents is from seeing clearly, as he alone can, that Hill was a solid sender.  Never mind that he is out of the league since 2017.  Hill makes Jimmer's NBA career [6.0-1.0-1.4]  like Bob Cousy [18.4-5.2-7.5]. 
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: chipstern on July 01, 2021, 12:31:22 AM
Forum alumni Biz Markie has passed away.

A peaceful journey Brother B.

Say hello to Mase and Dave DB for us.
Title: Re: R.I.P.
Post by: Kam on July 01, 2021, 12:53:41 AM
Quote from: chipstern on July 01, 2021, 12:31:22 AM
Forum alumni Biz Markie has passed away.

A peaceful journey Brother B.

Say hello to Mase and Dave DB for us.

I think our biz was different.  And this Biz might actually still be alive.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 01, 2021, 10:02:50 AM
CP3 opting out of his deal.  Will be a free agent, though maybe not for long.  PHX may just rework something quickly - assuming they dont just go with the recently blossoming leadership skills of D Booker and use the money elsewhere.

Knicks clearly zeroing in on BALL.  That would allow for a wild card go for the pure athlete or pure sniper pick in first round - rather than grabbing the PG (McBride or someone else)

Fun draft season ahead - including where does SUGGS go?  Suggs-Green-Kuminga-Mobley order.........is?

So, for today, Knick fans -

KISPERT OR MCBRIDE?
Title: FA TARGET?
Post by: chipstern on July 01, 2021, 12:53:25 PM
Reggie Jackson?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 01, 2021, 02:02:56 PM
Went in the tank and didnt stay healthy after getting big bucks then resurfaced when seeking a deal/to save his career.

Reggie would help us in the same way Rose does

Likely he stays put in LA
Title: No NO A Thousand Times NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: chipstern on July 01, 2021, 05:12:40 PM
From The Mind Of Ian Begley

Trade Scenario #1: Trade RJ Barrett, Obi Toppin, Immanuel Quickley, a 2021 first round pick, 2023 first-round pick, pick swaps for 2022 and 2024 for Damian Lillard

Fuck YOU

Christ.  Throw in Hershel Walker & Alan Weisselberg while you're at it. 

This is a Scotty Sterling Trade, an Isiah Thomas Trade, a Donnie Walsh Trade, a Glenn Grunwald Trade, a Steve Mills Trade. 

Make A Run At Lonzo Ball. 

See if Van Vleet money gets it done. 

Proving only that a substantial number of Knicks bloggers, beat writers and fans, have no sense of patience, no sense of history, no sense of proportion. 

One might even suggest that they are....

FUCKING IDIOTS. 
Title: Re: No NO A Thousand Times NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: chipstern on July 01, 2021, 05:19:54 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 01, 2021, 05:12:40 PM
From The Mind Of Ian Begley

Trade Scenario #1: Trade RJ Barrett, Obi Toppin, Immanuel Quickley, a 2021 first round pick, 2023 first-round pick, pick swaps for 2022 and 2024 for Damian Lillard

Fuck YOU

Christ.  Throw in Hershel Walker & Alan Weisselberg while you're at it. 

This is a Scotty Sterling Trade, an Isiah Thomas Trade, a Donnie Walsh Trade, a Glenn Grunwald Trade, a Steve Mills Trade. 

Make A Run At Lonzo Ball. 

See if Van Vleet money gets it done. 

Proving only that a substantial number of Knicks bloggers, beat writers and fans, have no sense of patience, no sense of history, no sense of proportion. 

One might even suggest that they are....

FUCKING IDIOTS.

And I love DAME.  But this is Carmelo 2.0   FUCK YOU THRICE. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 01, 2021, 05:25:09 PM
Trying to get on Dame’s Christmas list. Hard pass on that deal. It’s a joke.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 01, 2021, 05:35:35 PM
Kevin Chouinard: Danilo Gallinari was asked who would be Bucks’ leader if Giannis can’t go tonight: “I think that if you ask my daughter this question – and she is 7 months (old) – she is going to give you the right answer: Jrue Holiday and Khris Middleton.”
Title: PATIENCE
Post by: chipstern on July 01, 2021, 06:15:22 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 01, 2021, 05:25:09 PM
Trying to get on Dame’s Christmas list. Hard pass on that deal. It’s a joke.

I don't believe that is how Leon Rose is wired.  Nor THIBS.  What Knicks management and coaching staff did last year, the patience, the prudence, paid serious dividends. 

Can you picture Thibs turning beet purple when asked his thoughts on RJ being traded?

As for MASS DUMPS of #1 Picks?

My GOD.  Been there.  Done that. 

Looking for a nanosecond at your fave team, the Atlanta Hawks. 

Onyeka Okongwu, 20 [#6 pick, 2020] C/PF
DeAndre Hunter, 23 [#4 pick, 2019] SF/PF
Cam Reddish, 21 [#10 pick, 2019] SF/PF
Trae Young, 22 [#5 pick, 2018] PG
Kevin Huerter, 22 [#18 pick, 2018] SG/SF
John Collins, 23 [#19 pick, 2017] PF

And we all know about their vets, acquired through trades and free agency: Capella [27], Gallinari [32], Bogdonavich [28], Williams [34], Snell [29], Hill [30].

I could 12.  Twelve DEEP.  And a core of six very young, very talented players. 

And Ian Begley and the rest of these dubious douche devices is okay with trading our three [pick 'em] of our best YOUNG players and multiple #1 draft picks.  RJ [21].  IQ [22].  Obi [23]. Mitchell [23]. 

Randle is going to be 27; Vildoza is going to be 26.  Pelle is 28. 

French Frank and Kevin are also VERY YOUNG, though it would be surprising if both/either of them are back. 

A "HARD NO"

Again, I love DAME.  Great player.  Great competitor.  Great character. 

He is 30, which admittedly ain't all that old.  One could make a case that he is IN HIS PRIME. 

However, trading away the equivalent of FIVE #1 picks, and freezing upwards of 40-50% of our future cap space on someone who will be pulling down $54,250,000 in 2024-2025 [$43,750,000 $47,250,000,   $50,750,000, $54,250,000]. 

The Hawks were patient and purposeful, and now they have a very deep, very young roster, and look to be VERY COMPETITIVE for the immediate future. 

PATIENCE.  DRAFT PICKS.  Judicious Use Of Cap Space. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 01, 2021, 06:38:43 PM
Make no mistake - ALL named are tradeable - if the right deal surfaced.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 01, 2021, 07:01:47 PM
Randle is going to be 27; Vildoza is going to be 26.  Pelle is 28.

French Frank and Kevin are also VERY YOUNG, though it would be surprising if both/either of them are back.

Oh My God -

Chip - I used to enjoy tossing ideas back and forth with you - appreciated your knowledge -

but you have LOST YOUR SHIT
Title: Re: PATIENCE
Post by: facilitatorn on July 01, 2021, 07:57:26 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 01, 2021, 06:15:22 PM
I don't believe that is how Leon Rose is wired.  Nor THIBS.  What Knicks management and coaching staff did last year, the patience, the prudence, paid serious dividends. 

I was talking about Begely.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 02, 2021, 02:17:21 AM
Mr. Bobby stepped in & stepped up to put Milwaukee ahead. Nice game from their adjusted first 5.
Title: Re: PATIENCE
Post by: Kam on July 03, 2021, 04:11:40 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 01, 2021, 06:15:22 PM


French Frank and Kevin are also VERY YOUNG, though it would be surprising if both/either of them are back. 


I don't see where Knox is gonna go.  Maybe there's a huge trade out there and he is one of the "young assets" moved but I think that's unlikely.  He would have to be a throw in within a trade of a much better asset like RJ or Randle and I don't see the Knicks trading either RJ or Randle. 

Moving Knox as a standalone -- i don't think you get more than a 2nd rounder in return.

So i think it's a high probability... like 70%+ that Knox remains.
Title: Knox, Knox
Post by: carlos123 on July 03, 2021, 04:47:07 PM
Thankfully, he only has one year left on his contract.

OTOH, getting a second rounder for Knox? Not too bad, one never knows. Think of Mitch Robinson.


- Chamaco's Patriotism is only for the white race. -
Title: Re: PATIENCE
Post by: facilitatorn on July 03, 2021, 05:09:58 PM
Quote from: Kam on July 03, 2021, 04:11:40 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 01, 2021, 06:15:22 PM


French Frank and Kevin are also VERY YOUNG, though it would be surprising if both/either of them are back. 


I don't see where Knox is gonna go.  Maybe there's a huge trade out there and he is one of the "young assets" moved but I think that's unlikely.  He would have to be a throw in within a trade of a much better asset like RJ or Randle and I don't see the Knicks trading either RJ or Randle. 

Moving Knox as a standalone -- i don't think you get more than a 2nd rounder in return.

So i think it's a high probability... like 70%+ that Knox remains.

Knox gives salary ballast to a deal mainly about picks going with him as part of a larger deal for a more expensive piece we can absorb into our space, either as a straight trade our as our end of a S&T also creating an exception for the other party.

Not saying it does happen. Just saying if it does, it could happen like that.
Title: NBADraft.net
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 03, 2021, 09:41:40 PM
now with Nah'Shon Hyland out of VCU to Knicks - ahead of McBride and - ahem - Mac McClung.

note - this was a month ago

https://www.nbadraft.net/nba-mock-drafts/

Kispert gone - 13th

Watching Hyland now at the Combine

Defense his forte but had 15 points in a half, 3-4 from deep
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 03, 2021, 11:40:27 PM
Their projections aren’t very good, but I do like their Black Lives Matter banner, still going strong.

Fun game tonight. I shall enjoy the finals. There is a certain poetry to Bud shutting the door on the Hawks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on July 04, 2021, 01:34:46 AM
Well, I guess the Bucks have a big 3 after all.
Title: Re: NBADraft.net
Post by: elephant on July 04, 2021, 01:36:07 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 03, 2021, 09:41:40 PM
now with Nah'Shon Hyland out of VCU to Knicks - ahead of McBride and - ahem - Mac McClung.

note - this was a month ago

https://www.nbadraft.net/nba-mock-drafts/

Kispert gone - 13th

Watching Hyland now at the Combine

Defense his forte but had 15 points in a half, 3-4 from deep

We have Nah'Shon Hyland already.

His name is Immanuel Jaylen Quickley.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 04, 2021, 01:48:28 AM
Nah - Hyland can actually be a starting lead guard.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 04, 2021, 03:48:26 AM
Nothing like a lead guard who generates more turnovers than assists.

Quickley is better than 2 assists to each turnover, not in college but in the NBA.

Pass on Bones.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 04, 2021, 12:22:54 PM
Knicks Floating RJ Barrett; Monitor Damian Lillard, Bradley Beal, Collin Sexton



https://hoopswire.com/knicks-floating-rj-barrett-monitor-damian-lillard-bradley-beal-collin-sexton/


The Knicks are willing to include shooting guard R.J. Barrett in a trade package for a star guard, such as the Trail Blazers’ Damian Lillard or Wizards’ Bradley Beal, according to Kristian Winfield of the New York Daily News.

---

While the Knicks have been tied to Lillard’s situation in Portland and are monitoring Beal’s status on the Wizards, it is unclear whether their best offer will compel those teams to part ways with their franchise players,” Winfield wrote. “The Knicks could make an offer similar to the Nets’ package for James Harden and trade any mix of Barrett, Mitchell Robinson, Obi Toppin and Immanuel Quickley along with their draft picks and pick swaps.”
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on July 04, 2021, 12:45:27 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 04, 2021, 01:48:28 AM
Nah - Hyland can actually be a starting lead guard.

I've seen Hyland play in dozens of games. Really like the guy. But his comparisons to IQ — both in physical form and the way he plays — are striking.

They're different than most guys....in a very similar way. I don't see any basis in your contention that Hyland can be a starting lead guard, and IQ can't.

Maybe we'll trade away IQ. Who knows? But if he's seen as a component for next season, then there's no way we're drafting Bones.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on July 04, 2021, 03:12:24 PM
There is zero chance the Knicks trade RJ.  There is maybe a 5% chance they trade Randle.  Anything you read is click bait.
Title: Carmelo 2.1
Post by: chipstern on July 04, 2021, 03:38:40 PM
Quote from: Kam on July 04, 2021, 03:12:24 PM
There is zero chance the Knicks trade RJ.  There is maybe a 5% chance they trade Randle.  Anything you read is click bait.

THANK YOU. 

BlogOBile posting after posting advancing the most ludicrous, phantasmagorical transactions. 

As I have related in nauseatingly obsessive detail, trades which suggest packaging RJ and IQ and Obi/Mitchell plus most of our draft capital, thus gutting our team of a talented, affordable core of youth in search of the sexiest purported shiny objects, infuriate me. 

There are some interesting folks out there, but I do not view revisiting Carmelo 2.1 [ALL IN ON DAME] as rational. 

Nor do I see the likes of CP3 or Kawhi signing on. 

There are some interesting possibilities out there, such as Oubre and Ball and Allen, who might yet alight in the Garden if the numbers work and the stars align and there is a commonality of interest.   

But my sense of things is the Knicks proceeding very cautiously.  2022 is a more richly textured free agent class.  Maintaining one's core of youth makes sense cap wise, as well as in terms of some sustainable growth curve. 

Again, look at the Hawks.  Young.  Reddish.  Hunter.  Collins.  Okongwu.  Huerter.  That exchange of Doncic for Young and an additional #1 looking rather prescient now, considering how RJ's DUKE teammate CAM REDDISH came on against the Bucks. 

Stay the course, Leon, STAY THE COURSE. 

PS: We will get a sneak peak at Vildoza soon enough.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 04, 2021, 08:00:34 PM
A mess at ESPN

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/04/sports/basketball/espn-rachel-nichols-maria-taylor.html

Nichols of course is right.  I will boycott if she loses this.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on July 05, 2021, 04:56:33 PM
Nichols' comments - thought to be off the record - were in and of themselves not an attack on Taylor, but rather a frustration with how ESPN was dealing with women overall.  But there is a sensitivity to those comments Nichols made if you want to interpret them through a certain angle you can find yourself frustrated with her.  I can see Taylor's side of it.  BUT I think it was unfair that the comments were spread and Nichols didn't get a chance to speak to Taylor about them.  Taylor can interpret them however she likes but unless there is something we aren't privy to I think it wasn't the right move to not seek to clear the air with Nichols.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 06, 2021, 12:22:59 AM
As Colin Cowherd said recently, there ARE NO 5 year NBA plans anymore.  It's a year to year league

Include the Knicks in this.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 06, 2021, 12:25:01 AM
Moving Knox as a standalone -- i don't think you get more than a 2nd rounder in return.


No

You have to GIVE a second rounder to get rid of the dollars owed Knox.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 06, 2021, 08:04:11 PM
Boycott on

Enjoy the Finals, boys.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/06/espn-sits-rachel-nichols-for-nba-finals-over-maria-taylor-comments.html
Title: Who cares
Post by: carlos123 on July 06, 2021, 08:25:36 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on July 06, 2021, 08:04:11 PM
Boycott on

Enjoy the Finals, boys.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/06/espn-sits-rachel-nichols-for-nba-finals-over-maria-taylor-comments.html

Chamaco, we really don't care what you do.
I bet ESPN feels about the same.
I was gonna suggest you get lost, but thinking it over, no, not really. We have fun sometimes with your stupidity.

- Chamaco's Patriotism is only for the white race. -
Title: Re: Who cares
Post by: facilitatorn on July 06, 2021, 09:15:29 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on July 06, 2021, 08:25:36 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on July 06, 2021, 08:04:11 PM
Boycott on

Enjoy the Finals, boys.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/06/espn-sits-rachel-nichols-for-nba-finals-over-maria-taylor-comments.html

Chamaco, we really don't care what you do.
I bet ESPN feels about the same.
I was gonna suggest you get lost, but thinking it over, no, not really. We have fun sometimes with your stupidity.

- Chamaco's Patriotism is only for the white race. -

Your suggestion would be about 60 years too late, Carlos. He done done it. The question is if he can ever get found again.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on July 07, 2021, 01:13:09 PM
Nothing against the Bucks but I'd like to see the Sun's lose their championship cherry.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on July 07, 2021, 03:55:49 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 06, 2021, 08:04:11 PM
Boycott on

Enjoy the Finals, boys.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/06/espn-sits-rachel-nichols-for-nba-finals-over-maria-taylor-comments.html

Nobody comes off looking good.  Not Nichols, Not Mendelson, Not ESPN, and not Taylor, in roughly that order of not goodness.
Title: 2019 Draft
Post by: chipstern on July 07, 2021, 07:35:07 PM
BANK.  Yes, I am pulling for the Suns as well.  CP3, Booker, Ayton comprise a real BIG 3.  MONTY's leadership. 

Surely impressed with Jrue Holiday, Brook Lopez, Khris Middleton, Giannis, PJ, BoDiddley Personal Pinyata Bobby Portis and those white boy sharpshooters. 

Watching Phoenix dominate in the second half, was reflecting on both their good luck and prudent sense of patiently assembling building blocks and nurturing them in a mature system, coming to fruition with MONTY the arrival of CP3 and the competitive urgency of their homegrown star, Booker. 

They were patient, they drafted well, they didn't cash in their young assets and draft capital for SHINY OBJECTS and their veteran acquisitions Paul and Crowder were perfect complements to their youth.   

Sixth Man Cameron Johnson an impressive performer at PF and SF, playing D, nailing his long jumper and free throws.  The Suns converted much heralded #6 pick Jarrett Culver into Johnson and PF/C Dario Saric back in 2019. They would have appear to have gotten the better of the T-Wolves.   

In 2018, the Knicks passed on Villanova's 3&D mainstay Mikal Bridges to roll the dice on Kevin Knox' upside, and Bridges fell into the Sixers laps.  Somehow, INEXPLICABLY, the Suns got the Sixers to exchange Bridges for Zhaire Smith and, in a belief in one's self roll of the dice, Phoenix's 2021 #1 pick.  Haven't seen this reflected in mocks, but, WTF, you can pencil in Bridges for 30 minutes a night for the next decade. 

Of course, Devvin

Oh, and in 2018, they added that Ayton fellow with the #1 pick in the draft.  He has put up consistent numbers, and in this his third season, he has raised the level of his team game and court vision. 

Props to GM James Jones, Coach Monty Williams, 2015 #1 pick Devin Booker [the #13 pick, Cameron Payne was the #14 pick and here he is] and Captain Chris Paul.  Great team work and balance, focused D, not to mention all of those MID RANGE JUMPERS. 

Worth noting that we played the Suns quite tough in our first meeting, and got nuked in the second half of our rubber game. 

PS: Thibs beat out Monty for coach of the year, based one would presume on doing more with less. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 08, 2021, 06:08:55 AM
When you have a CP there are always questions about how important the coach actually is. I wouldn’t of hated seeing Monty get the award. Glad it was Thibs though.

Isiah Mobley heads back to USC with a to do list and some space to hold down in the frontcourt.

The Belgian is in as a 6’9” skinny wing.
Title: Check Your Olympic Calendar
Post by: chipstern on July 08, 2021, 04:08:10 PM
July 25

Argentina vs. France
Title: Re: Check Your Olympic Calendar
Post by: facilitatorn on July 08, 2021, 04:16:06 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 08, 2021, 04:08:10 PM
July 25

Argentina vs. France

Frank v. Luca

Bring it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 08, 2021, 04:39:57 PM
They were patient, they drafted well, they didn't cash in their young assets and draft capital for SHINY OBJECTS and their veteran acquisitions Paul and Crowder were perfect complements to their youth.   

Sixth Man Cameron Johnson an impressive performer at PF and SF, playing D, nailing his long jumper and free throws.  The Suns converted much heralded #6 pick Jarrett Culver into Johnson and PF/C Dario Saric back in 2019. They would have appear to have gotten the better of the T-Wolves.   

Might wish to take a closer look

OKC did real well in the Paul swap.

Suns are tough - no doubt.  If Paul opts out.....

....unless he re-signs....

,,,,and that would be for big coin

WIN IT ALL and they can bray, surely.  But the Suns did give capital, surely.
Title: Chris Paul: Phoenix-OKC Exchange
Post by: chipstern on July 08, 2021, 09:22:00 PM
After the Thunder got paid by the Houston Rockets to take on Chris Paul prior to the 2019-20 season, he thrived in Oklahoma City as his trade value jumped significantly. After just one season in OKC, Paul had once again established himself as one of the top point guards in the entire NBA.

However, after his first season with the Thunder, they officially kicked off their rebuild and needed to get assets for Paul while his value was as high as it was. While several teams showed interest in the services of the veteran point guard, the Phoenix Suns ultimately pulled the trigger on acquiring him.

In the middle of November, just over one month before the start of the 2020-21 season, the Thunder would receive Kelly Oubre, Ricky Rubio, Ty Jerome, Jalen Lecque and a 2022 first-round pick in exchange for Paul and Abdel Nader.

From there, Thunder GM Sam Presti would further flip the assets he received for Paul In secondary moves.

Lecque was traded to the Indiana Pacers for T.J. Leaf (who was later waived) and a 2027 second-round pick.

Oubre was sent to the Golden State Warriors for a heavily protected 2021 first-round pick that ultimately would convey as a very early second rounder (via Minnesota).

Rubio was packaged in a three-team deal with two late first-round picks as Oklahoma City moved up to No. 17 in the 2020 NBA Draft to take Aleksej Pokusevski. The Thunder also received James Johnson and a 2024 second-round pick in the deal. Johnson would go on to be traded in a three-team deal that netted OKC Trevor Ariza, Justin Jackson (who was waived during the 2020-21 season) and two future second-round picks. From there, Ariza would later be traded to the Miami Heat for Myers Leonard (who would be waived) and yet another future second rounder.

When it was all said and done, Presti was able to work multiple trades that ultimately resulted in Chris Paul being flipped for quite the haul.

Ty Jerome
Aleksej Pokusevski
2021 SRP (MIN)
2022 FRP (PHX)
2023 SRP (MIA/DAL)
2024 SRP (MIN)
2026 SRP (DAL)
2027 SRP (MIA)
2027 SRP (IND)
Getting two young cornerstones in Pokusevski and Jerome along with one first-round pick and six second-round picks was worth the deal for the Oklahoma City Thunder.

Nicely done by Presti.  Flipping assets for a host of Second rounders, not unlike Leon Rose, WWW, Perry & Perrin in NY. 

And in the end what did Phoenix surrender?

* A late 2022 First Rounder. 

* Kelly Oubre who was rendered expendable by Mikal Bridges.

* Ricky Rubio was was rendered irrelevant by CP3 and expendable by Cameron Payne. 

* Ty Jerome, a big shooting guard with a nice stroke and a lot of upside, who was not going to see significant playing time behind Trevor Booker. 

So Phoenix assembled some talent to bring back CP3, but in the larger scheme of things, SPARE PARTS.  Oubre a talent, but a talent who was due to be an unrestricted free agent in 2021.

So, not exactly a heist, but a Serious Slam Dunk for Suns GM James Jones. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 08, 2021, 10:29:45 PM
Ty Jerome is a combo guard, a national champion.

Had a 13.5 PER in '20-'21
Title: CP3
Post by: chipstern on July 08, 2021, 10:33:26 PM
Chris Paul Is An ASSASSIN. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 08, 2021, 10:33:39 PM
Team getting the star usually has done best.  I think the underrating of Ayton was most significant in the perceived "surprise" Suns season (JALEN wanted DeAndre over Love for the Olympic team).  And happy to see some join me in admiration of Cam Payne, who the forum shit on a couple years back.
Title: Protecting picks can hurt
Post by: Kam on July 09, 2021, 01:26:09 AM
Interesting little tidbit to chew on, there's potentially another shoe dropping in the Porzingis deal:

The Mavericks traded two first-round picks to the Atlanta Hawks in the Luka Doncic deal. The Stepien Rule prevents NBA teams from shipping out their first-round pick two years in a row. Dallas owed their 2019 first-rounder to Atlanta, meaning the two they sent to New York had to start in 2021.


The Mavericks decided to trade the Knicks an unprotected first in 2021, but put a top ten protection on their 2023 selection. The reasoning made sense. Dallas had missed the playoffs two straight years and were well on their way to a third. There were no guarantees Porzingis would stay healthy or Doncic would become a superstar. The Mavs could still miss the playoffs in 2023.

The protection has hamstrung them in making future moves. It prevents Dallas from trading their 2025 pick because they may owe 2024 instead of 2023. The Mavericks would love to be able to deal their 2025 and 2027 picks this summer as they look to improve their roster. To do so, they will have to get the Knicks to agree to remove the protection, which will likely cost Dallas a second-round pick, at minimum.

The Dallas Mavericks must be careful protecting draft picks going forward because it limits their ability to make moves.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 09, 2021, 04:18:53 AM
Offer Dallas our later second rounder and Knox for Brunson. Draft Chris Duarte, Tre Murphy III, and Makur Maker. Bring back Rose, Bullock, Burks, and Taj.

Mitch Taj Pelle
Randle Obi Makur
RJ Bullock Murphy
Burks Quickley Duarte
Rose Brunson Viladosa

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 09, 2021, 03:53:19 PM
JUMP, baby!

Good to see RACHEL back.

Meanwhile Maria Taylor turns down an offer that would have eventually had her making 5 mil per at ESPN

Heh - there's the fucking door.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on July 09, 2021, 04:36:44 PM
lmao...I couldn't give two fucks about ESPN broadcaster spats & follies, but surely know that if the dimmest twat in the room thinks turning down that contract is the wrong move it has to be the right one!

Go get it, girl!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 09, 2021, 06:34:12 PM
Let's see who can figure out which definition goes with which individual journalist/ reporter, and which is being offered millions by ESPN, and which is being let go.   

One - played basketball and volleyball at a college ranked 46th nationally, with a decent Journalism school (#18), that she did attend, and graduated from. Had a solid athletic career in college.   Has been working small time reporting gigs mainly with the SEC network doing sideline work for football, and some ESPN 2 work for college football, and women's basketball.  Has had a NBA pregame show for about a year.  No known accolades, or awards.

Two - attended and graduated the #9 university nationally, and from the #2 ranked school of Journalism.  Has had a 25 year career in Journalism and Broadcast news,  reporting on, or broadcasting for the NFL, NHL, Monday Night Football, CNN, ESPN, NBA, TNT, receiving multiple accolades, and praise for tough reporting on certain scandals/ topics centered on domestic abuse in sports.  Was named one of Esquire's Women we Love, was voted one of the 10 most powerful voices in sports, multiple awards from Sports Illustrated who also named her  "the country's most impactful and prominent female sports journalist."
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on July 09, 2021, 06:44:02 PM
lol, let's see who here gives a fuck besides you: Nobody

though as a writer/journalist I can tell you nothing you listed adds up to jack $*(&

WHAT matters...can cultivate sources, deliver story, connect with audience BANG



**** clearly one of the two doesn't connect with ass-clown peckerwood shitbags tho .....
Title: Chamaco doesn't either
Post by: carlos123 on July 10, 2021, 04:22:12 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on July 09, 2021, 06:44:02 PM
lol, let's see who here gives a fuck besides you: Nobody

though as a writer/journalist I can tell you nothing you listed adds up to jack $*(&

WHAT matters...can cultivate sources, deliver story, connect with audience BANG

**** clearly one of the two doesn't connect with ass-clown peckerwood shitbags tho .....

Chamaco don't give a fuk neither. What he really cares about it the race of the two women involved.

Oh, and letting us know that he's boycotting ESPN 😜

- Chamaco's Patriotism is only for the white race. -
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 11, 2021, 12:30:20 AM
Laughing so hard.  Bucks are being totally shit on.

I must remind everyone - a series does not turn until a home squad loses.
Title: Oh...SMACK
Post by: chipstern on July 11, 2021, 12:30:39 AM
Fuck ME

Vildoza

Just closed out the first half against Australia with a smooth half court jumper worthy of Trae Young.  Nothing but net.  DAMN. 

Me likey. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 11, 2021, 02:42:35 AM
Chip if you’re seeing more of this, please fill us in.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 11, 2021, 05:36:38 AM
Campozza the starter

Luca hit three treys and missed a bunch.  He manned up on D and fought through screens.  Was able to create space for his shots off the dribble.

A starter?

Certainly a rotation player. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 11, 2021, 12:33:53 PM
Nigeria is off to a good start. Can adding the finalists save team USA?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 11, 2021, 12:37:07 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 11, 2021, 05:36:38 AM
Campozza the starter

Luca hit three treys and missed a bunch.  He manned up on D and fought through screens.  Was able to create space for his shots off the dribble.

A starter?

Certainly a rotation player.

Thanks Chip. I finally caught some highlights. Luca looked quick and reasonably sized. Scola is still at it which is awesome.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 11, 2021, 04:01:01 PM
Nigeria pays back US nine years after we ran up the score on them

Mike Brown at the helm.

Jayson Tatum starting for US.  Need I say more?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on July 11, 2021, 04:03:43 PM
Wait.  Aren’t you a big Jayson Tatum fan?
Title: Chamaco's got no response.
Post by: carlos123 on July 11, 2021, 06:58:49 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on July 11, 2021, 04:03:43 PM
Wait.  Aren’t you a big Jayson Tatum fan?

Good one Yankguy!

A response won't be forthcoming 😳

- Chamaco's Patriotism is only for the white race. -
Title: PGs On Ice
Post by: chipstern on July 13, 2021, 01:28:23 AM
Took Vildoza till the second half against Nigeria before he heated up and got into rhythm.

Luca is a playa.  Nice pickup.  Summer  League will tell the tale.  So far, encouraging. 

Meanwhile, French Frank has looked good, shooting and facilitating. 

I have a sinking feeling that we are going to cut him loose and we are going to get to see him blossom for a team that gives him an honest chance and regular minutes.

Oh well.

To be a Knicks fan is to suffer. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 13, 2021, 02:27:13 AM
Offer Frank 4 years at 3-4 million, the last two being team options with maximal performance incentives. Get it done in day one and you don’t sweat his cap hold cause he won’t have one anymore. Gives the team another year to mold him before deciding how far to ride with him or how to cash him in.
Title: Re: Biden Administration
Post by: facilitatorn on July 13, 2021, 02:46:48 AM
Or alternatively offer him as part of a trade or series of trades to get vet help and accelerate our push.

Obi + S&T Frank + draft capital and/or just drafted players for Brogdon & Warren

Mitch Pelle
Randle
Warren Knox
RJ Quickley
Brogdon Viladosa

Before adding rookies, free agents, or exploring other potential trades, if healthy this initial starting group is tough, heady, and could potentially hold 4 twenty point scorers.

It also cleans up Indy’s books.

Add back Rose, Burks, and Taj we’d also have a bench.

Mitch Pelle
Randle Taj
Warren Burks Knox
RJ Quickley
Brogdon Rose Viladosa

That gives us significantly more firepower than we had last year without really eating into the defensive potential of the group or shifting its window, all with 3 spots to spare. Bring back
Bullock as well if he’ll come back. He’d fit in just fine. Noel also, if he recognizes his limitations and signs cheap.
Title: Re: PGs On Ice
Post by: Kam on July 13, 2021, 10:43:23 AM
Quote from: chipstern on July 13, 2021, 01:28:23 AM

Meanwhile, French Frank has looked good, shooting and facilitating. 

I have a sinking feeling that we are going to cut him loose and we are going to get to see him blossom for a team that gives him an honest chance and regular minutes.


This site put together a list of teams where Frank can blossom (https://www.championsleague.basketball/19-20/access-list/club-ranking)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on July 13, 2021, 10:53:24 AM
Apparently Steve Novak was tapped to do the dunk contest during linsanity but he couldn’t participate because he can’t dunk.

Steve Novak wasn't sure what to do when he got the call. It was early 2012, near the height of Linsanity in New York City, and his agent got word that the NBA wanted him to participate in the dunk contest. Jeremy Lin was sleeping on teammate Landry Fields’s couch at the time, and, as Novak remembers it, the plan was for Fields to dunk over a futon-bound Lin. When Fields had to withdraw because of injury, JR Smith was tapped to take over. When Smith pulled out because of a bum ankle, the offer went to the next player on the list.

The NBA was eager to capitalize on the excitement surrounding Linsanity, and adding Novak, who had never dunked in five seasons as a professional, was just another wrinkle to the theatrics. For a role player with a few million in career earnings, the cash incentive ($20,000 just for participating) wasn’t insignificant, and the potential spotlight could have done wonders for the Knicks forward. He had been lobbying the league to let him join the three-point shootout, but they preferred Kevin Durant. At 6' 10", no player as tall as Novak has appeared in as many games without dunking. And he wasn’t about to risk becoming a meme at All-Star weekend.

Novak is quick to set the record straight: He can dunk. Or at least he could at one point. There’s proof somewhere on the internet if you know where to look: snippets of flashier jams from college and routine slams from practice and in pregame. He even remembers his first in-game dunk. He was in the eighth grade, towering over his fellow tweens at a whopping 6' 5". After seeing Novak throw it down in practice, a coach approached him with an incentive. If the big friendly giant could dunk in a game, he’d be rewarded with a $20 gift card to a local ice cream shop. “If I didn’t have motivation before,” Novak remembers, “I’m like, ‘This has got to happen.’ "

The dunk was a one-handed affair off a steal on the fast break. In his words, it was vicious. What he couldn’t have known then was that it’d be one of his last.

Novak recalls two real chances to log his first NBA dunk. The first came early in his career with the Clippers, when he “came up with a flat tire” and resorted to a finger roll. The other occurred when he played for the Knicks against the Bucks and was alone on the fast break. He steeled himself and decided this was his moment.

“I just took a little too much time getting down to the rim, and Larry Sanders, who was on the Bucks at the time, was trailing me like a bat out of hell,” Novak says. “And it kind of spooked me, so I rushed it, and, instead of getting my steps right, I just sort of finger-rolled that one, too.”

At first, coaches couldn’t unlock him. He was a towering forward who wasn’t much for banging in the paint and wasn’t likely to ever become a glass eater. It wasn’t until Rick Adelman was hired to lead the Rockets before Novak’s second season that things started to click. Later, when he played for Mike D’Antoni in New York, his skills as a shooter became a feature of the Knicks’ offense.

“He would say to me, ‘Hey, Steve, I know the guy you’re guarding might be able to score on you. I’m fine with that. I’m not O.K. if he scores more than you,’ ” Novak says. “And it’s like, Whoa. That makes so much sense to me. If I make three, and he makes two, we’re good out here.”

https://www.si.com/nba/2021/02/22/nba-non-dunkers-patty-mills-tj-mcconnell-steve-novak-daily-cover (https://www.si.com/nba/2021/02/22/nba-non-dunkers-patty-mills-tj-mcconnell-steve-novak-daily-cover)
Title: Colin Sexton
Post by: Kam on July 13, 2021, 11:12:55 AM
Cavs need draft capital and the Knicks need a scoring guard.
Title: Really? PASS
Post by: chipstern on July 13, 2021, 12:32:18 PM
The 6'1" Collin Sexton?

Really? 

18.8 FGA per game. 

4.4 assists per 35 minutes. 

He won't pass, so I will. 

If we are going to cash in assets, pay big money, then 6'6" Lonzo Ball is more my speed.  Plays D, better court vision, boards, looks to get everyone involved. 

Like, I don't know. 

A FUCKING POINT GUARD. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 13, 2021, 01:54:35 PM
Luca is a playa.  Nice pickup.  Summer  League will tell the tale.  So far, encouraging.


A total wild card

Nobody else bid - says plenty.

But certainly we will watch and see
Title: Re: PGs On Ice
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 13, 2021, 01:56:13 PM
Quote from: Kam on July 13, 2021, 10:43:23 AM
Quote from: chipstern on July 13, 2021, 01:28:23 AM

Meanwhile, French Frank has looked good, shooting and facilitating. 

I have a sinking feeling that we are going to cut him loose and we are going to get to see him blossom for a team that gives him an honest chance and regular minutes.


This site put together a list of teams where Frank can blossom (https://www.championsleague.basketball/19-20/access-list/club-ranking)

If "blossom" means being rostered.......
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 13, 2021, 02:01:20 PM
“He would say to me, ‘Hey, Steve, I know the guy you’re guarding might be able to score on you. I’m fine with that. I’m not O.K. if he scores more than you,’ ” Novak says. “And it’s like, Whoa. That makes so much sense to me. If I make three, and he makes two, we’re good out here.”


Simple math

The genius of Mike.

And even in these lok down D Knick days of Thibs - we need to SCORE - period.  Bad (and not enough) offense loses games, simply stated.  Which is why we have (and will look to keep) D Rose.  Why we signed Julius - and yes, why we are interested in Sexton.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 13, 2021, 02:16:42 PM
Not saying I agree.....

The deal

Cavaliers get: Nos. 19 and 21 overall picks in 2021 NBA Draft, 2023 first-round pick and Immanuel Quickley
Knicks get: Collin Sexton

Why Sexton is perfect for Knicks

New York head coach Tom Thibodeau loves high-effort, intense players with serious work ethics. For whatever perceived faults Sexton has, you can’t deny he works hard and has a high motor.

Although his defense has been inconsistent at times on the Cavs, Sexton is an absolutely tenacious on-ball defender when he wants to be. His outstanding lateral quickness and 6-foot-6 wingspan more than make up for his 6-foot-1 height.

Conclusion

There’s no question New York is an elite defensive team under Thibodeau’s watch, and Sexton would be a willing contributor in that area. Where he’d really help the Knicks is giving them a legitimate perimeter scoring threat they sorely lacked and got exposed for in the NBA playoffs, as they bowed out in five games to the Trae Young-led Atlanta Hawks.


https://sportsnaut.com/new-york-knicks-aggressive-collin-sexton-trade/

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 13, 2021, 02:25:01 PM
http://empiresportsmedia.com/new-york-knicks/report-collin-sexton-will-cost-knicks-obi-toppin-kevin-knox-and-2021-1st-rd-pick/ (http://empiresportsmedia.com/new-york-knicks/report-collin-sexton-will-cost-knicks-obi-toppin-kevin-knox-and-2021-1st-rd-pick/)

I would do this. It leaves us with decent picks in the draft and enough talent base and money to go after big fish or just sign a guy like Norm Powell or get into a bidding war for guys like Ball if that’s the way we want to go.

Mitch Pelle
Randle

RJ Quickley
Sexton Viladosa
Title: VILDOZA
Post by: carlos123 on July 13, 2021, 03:01:20 PM
Fac, I like you and what you post.

Would you please try to spell Vildoza right if only just once.

PLEASE

Repeat with me: V-I-L-D-O-Z-A.

See? You can do it 💪

Good boy!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on July 13, 2021, 03:11:10 PM
I would offer:

Obi and Knox and 19th pick

for Sexton.

Cavs don't have too much leverage IMO
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 13, 2021, 03:17:16 PM
Keep Obi.  Quickly minutes likely go down so if Cavs like him he seems the more likely guy to offer.

Garland/Quickley a pretty good combo, Immanuel getting the opportunity at the 2.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 13, 2021, 03:33:58 PM
Tatum 4-12 vs Australia - got beat back door as many times as he made a FG.

Cant get Middleton back soon enough
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 13, 2021, 03:35:30 PM
Coach Pop is.....

9-5?  as Team USA coach?

Yikes.

And got testy with the media.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on July 13, 2021, 04:05:23 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 13, 2021, 03:33:58 PM
Tatum 4-12 vs Australia - got beat back door as many times as he made a FG.

Cant get Middleton back soon enough
What a clown you are.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 13, 2021, 08:01:31 PM
REPLACEMENT!!!


https://www.nba.com/news/jayson-tatum-knee-misses-exhibition-against-argentina
Title: Chamaco and Georgia
Post by: carlos123 on July 13, 2021, 08:10:24 PM
Chamaco, the All-Star game, which you were going to boycott, is actually on Fox.
I think you're changing your mind.

- Chamaco, say YES to All Star Game moving out of Georgia -
- Chamaco's Patriotism is only for the white race. -
Title: Addendum
Post by: chipstern on July 13, 2021, 08:17:26 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on July 13, 2021, 04:05:23 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 13, 2021, 03:33:58 PM
Tatum 4-12 vs Australia - got beat back door as many times as he made a FG.

Cant get Middleton back soon enough
What a clown you are.

A reflexively contrarian racist ass
clown.

Don't sell him short.

Likes to wave his flaccid half a pecker about in the hope someone will ask him to dance

PS: Not that long ago he was rewriting  history to assert that he alone had the insight and prescience THAT OTHERS ON THIS FORUM DIDN'T HAVE REGARDING TATUM'S DRAFT CAPITAL.  Now he's Negroizing him as us his wanton wont.

Don't you get it.  He's beige Stephen A. Smith minstrel  blowhard type of overcompensating half a male that hookers force to say please before deigning to let him toss her salad. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 13, 2021, 08:27:32 PM
Tatum-less USA crushes Argentina
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 13, 2021, 11:26:52 PM
Hyland working out for Warriors

Meanwhile Mountain West Player of the Year Matt Mitchell gains steam on many draft boards

https://goaztecs.com/sports/mens-basketball/roster/matt-mitchell/6600
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 14, 2021, 10:31:05 AM
A look back at Kings-Lakers epic 7 game series in 2002

Sacramento had Phil and the boys down 3 game to two after a slim 1 point loss and a 5th game 1 point win.  Lakers pull it out then sweep Nets for Phil/Shaq/Kobe 3rd straight

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2002-nba-western-conference-finals-lakers-vs-kings.html

Would O'Neal/Bryant have gotten their ring(s) if PHIL had not come in - had they stayed with Del Harris or Rambis or hired a different coach?

Discuss.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on July 14, 2021, 11:05:48 AM
Pretty sure O'Neal/Bryant don't get their rings without record assistance from Delaney, Bernhardt, and "The NBA's Go-To Guy", Dick Bavetta.

Biggest disgrace of the era...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 14, 2021, 12:44:32 PM
Looking forward to the Tatum-less USA taking on AUS again - Friday at 6 PM Eastern (NBC Sports Network)

Game after that is Sunday 9 PM vs Spain
Title: Re: VILDOZA
Post by: facilitatorn on July 14, 2021, 03:14:26 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on July 13, 2021, 03:01:20 PM
Fac, I like you and what you post.

Would you please try to spell Vildoza right if only just once.

PLEASE

Repeat with me: V-I-L-D-O-Z-A.

See? You can do it 💪
Good boy!

Vildoza, who seems about to thirds of the way to being a guy with rotation potential. Ive misspelled him enough that my autocorrect thinks I mistyped his name here.

So are you taking Sexton for comparatively spare parts?
Title: Re: VILDOZA
Post by: chipstern on July 14, 2021, 05:04:31 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 14, 2021, 03:14:26 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on July 13, 2021, 03:01:20 PM
Fac, I like you and what you post.

Would you please try to spell Vildoza right if only just once.

PLEASE

Repeat with me: V-I-L-D-O-Z-A.

See? You can do it 💪
Good boy!

Vildoza, who seems about to thirds of the way to being a guy with rotation potential. Ive misspelled him enough that my autocorrect thinks I mistyped his name here.

So are you taking Sexton for comparatively spare parts?

Knox [former #1]
Toppin [former #1]
2021 #1

FUCK SEXTON.  High volume shooter.  Doesn't get his team mates touches.  No D. 

Seriously?

PS: Will expect a max contract in the summer of 2022. 
Title: Trivia Question
Post by: chipstern on July 14, 2021, 05:57:34 PM
Anyone want to hazard a guess as to the last #1 pick the Knicks re-upped from their rookie contract? 
Title: Re: Trivia Question
Post by: carlos123 on July 14, 2021, 08:14:53 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 14, 2021, 05:57:34 PM
Anyone want to hazard a guess as to the last #1 pick the Knicks re-upped from their rookie contract?

Easy!

Charlie Ward, selected with the 26th pick in 1994.

I think he was re-upped in 1999.

PS:
- Chamaco's Patriotism is only for the white race. -
Now within the signature, replacing the All-Star out of Georgia bit, which is over.
Title: Charlie Ward
Post by: chipstern on July 14, 2021, 08:30:14 PM
Gallinari and Trevor Ariza still playing in the NBA. 

If one is to believe from the handicappers in the press and the blogosphere we are about to jettison Kevin Know, Frank Ntilikina and Obi Toppin.  Add RJ Barrett and IQ to that hall of infamy if Dame comes on the market. 

Septic impatience sullies our legacy and our future. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 14, 2021, 09:34:55 PM
PS: Will expect a max contract in the summer of 2022.


Which is why he is available

NBA is a year to year league.  How good can we be NOW?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 14, 2021, 11:05:52 PM
Chip's guy Holiday not gettin it done.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 14, 2021, 11:35:26 PM
Middleton vs Tatum not even a discussion.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on July 14, 2021, 11:45:34 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 14, 2021, 11:35:26 PM
Middleton vs Tatum not even a discussion.

Was it being discussed?

You seem to really want to discuss it. So please kid, share your hot take.

LMAO

Title: Re: VILDOZA
Post by: Kam on July 15, 2021, 12:05:04 AM
Quote from: chipstern on July 14, 2021, 05:04:31 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 14, 2021, 03:14:26 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on July 13, 2021, 03:01:20 PM
Fac, I like you and what you post.

Would you please try to spell Vildoza right if only just once.

PLEASE

Repeat with me: V-I-L-D-O-Z-A.

See? You can do it 💪
Good boy!

Vildoza, who seems about to thirds of the way to being a guy with rotation potential. Ive misspelled him enough that my autocorrect thinks I mistyped his name here.

So are you taking Sexton for comparatively spare parts?

Knox [former #1]
Toppin [former #1]
2021 #1

FUCK SEXTON.  High volume shooter.  Doesn't get his team mates touches.  No D. 

Seriously?

PS: Will expect a max contract in the summer of 2022.

Sexton had to shoot on that team.  He would pass the ball here.  His D would improve too.  Max contract aint really the issue as we could go over the cap for him after using cap space to sign free agents next summer..  Trust Brock Aller. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on July 15, 2021, 12:23:59 AM
Sexton? 

Sheeeeet.

We're getting Ball, aren't we?

Feels like that.

Cosmic vibrations.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 15, 2021, 02:13:23 AM
No reason not to do both Sexton and Ball moving RJ to the 3. I’d still want to bring back Rose, Burks, and Gibson getting Trey Murphy III and Makur Maker in the draft


Mitch Pelle
Randle Taj Maker
RJ Burks Murphy
Ball Quickley
Sexton Rose Vildoza
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 15, 2021, 11:09:19 AM
From Hoopshype

The Nets are expected to have free-agent center Nerlens Noel, 27, on their radar. Blake Griffin and Jeff Green are both unrestricted free agents for the Nets. SNY reported that the Hornets, Mavericks and Raptors also all are expected to have interest in Noel, the Knicks big man. The Nets have the $6 million mid-level exception, but Noel made $5 million last year and could be due for a raise. – via Brian Lewis @ New York Post
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 15, 2021, 07:35:35 PM
Quote from: elephant on July 15, 2021, 12:23:59 AM
Sexton? 

Sheeeeet.

We're getting Ball, aren't we?

Feels like that.

Cosmic vibrations.

Do you have any info on this?

What are you willing to give up to have New Orleans not match an offer?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 16, 2021, 01:10:15 AM
New Orleans isn’t matching anything over 17 mil per year. Offer him 18 or a 100k more than the Bulls offer and New Orleans will let him walk.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Hairy Lime on July 16, 2021, 01:18:57 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 14, 2021, 09:34:55 PM
PS: Will expect a max contract in the summer of 2022.


Which is why he is available

NBA is a year to year league.  How good can we be NOW?
Just a Cavs fan fly-by:

1. I don't think the Cavs believe that Sexton is not worth the max so much as they believe he is not worth the max to them. They prefer Garland, and if Garland was 6' 4" they might have an entirely different view of Sexton's value.

2. I think the Cavs are interested in also getting rid of Love's contract in a Sexton trade if possible. So if you are contemplating what it will take to get Sexton, bear in mind you would be competing against teams that also want/will take Love.

3. Sexton has holes in his game. Who doesn't? The league has plenty of max players with holes. He is not a natural point guard, but has has point guard skills and when Garland was hurt he averaged 6 plus assists a game without a big decrease in his scoring.

4. Not that they have asked me, but my willingness to part with Sexton depends on who goes at 2 in the draft. The Cavs seem to think Mobley and Allen (and occasionally Nance) can coexist on the court at the same time. If that is the case the Cavs might be willing to roll with a small back court, knowing they have interior protection.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 16, 2021, 05:00:24 PM
Quote from: Hairy Lime on July 16, 2021, 01:18:57 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 14, 2021, 09:34:55 PM
PS: Will expect a max contract in the summer of 2022.


Which is why he is available

NBA is a year to year league.  How good can we be NOW?
Just a Cavs fan fly-by:

1. I don't think the Cavs believe that Sexton is not worth the max so much as they believe he is not worth the max to them. They prefer Garland, and if Garland was 6' 4" they might have an entirely different view of Sexton's value.

2. I think the Cavs are interested in also getting rid of Love's contract in a Sexton trade if possible. So if you are contemplating what it will take to get Sexton, bear in mind you would be competing against teams that also want/will take Love.

3. Sexton has holes in his game. Who doesn't? The league has plenty of max players with holes. He is not a natural point guard, but has has point guard skills and when Garland was hurt he averaged 6 plus assists a game without a big decrease in his scoring.

4. Not that they have asked me, but my willingness to part with Sexton depends on who goes at 2 in the draft. The Cavs seem to think Mobley and Allen (and occasionally Nance) can coexist on the court at the same time. If that is the case the Cavs might be willing to roll with a small back court, knowing they have interior protection.

Good breakdown. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 16, 2021, 09:35:20 PM
2. I think the Cavs are interested in also getting rid of Love's contract in a Sexton trade if possible. So if you are contemplating what it will take to get Sexton, bear in mind you would be competing against teams that also want/will take Love.



mmmmmmmmm


Nah...
Title: Biz
Post by: chipstern on July 16, 2021, 10:47:30 PM
A Peaceful Journey, SIR...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aofoBrFNdg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aofoBrFNdg)

JUST A FRIEND

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xl9kWE-7aGU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xl9kWE-7aGU)

"Just about everyone who works in the post office is an Alien."

(https://images2.minutemediacdn.com/image/fetch/w_736,h_485,c_fill,g_auto,f_auto/https%3A%2F%2Ffansided.com%2Ffiles%2F2014%2F07%2Falan-houston-nba-brooklyn-nets-new-york-knicks-590x900.jpg)

"Just about everyone who posts on this Forum is an _________________."

Title: Re: Biz
Post by: carlos123 on July 17, 2021, 12:36:56 AM
Quote from: chipstern on July 16, 2021, 10:47:30 PM

"Just about everyone who posts on this Forum is an _________________."


Aboriginal?

I don’t know what else to suggest right now 🧐
Title: Re: Biz
Post by: NeedsAdjustments on July 17, 2021, 09:31:06 AM
Quote from: chipstern on July 16, 2021, 10:47:30 PM
A Peaceful Journey, SIR...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aofoBrFNdg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aofoBrFNdg)

JUST A FRIEND

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xl9kWE-7aGU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xl9kWE-7aGU)

"Just about everyone who works in the post office is an Alien."

(https://images2.minutemediacdn.com/image/fetch/w_736,h_485,c_fill,g_auto,f_auto/https%3A%2F%2Ffansided.com%2Ffiles%2F2014%2F07%2Falan-houston-nba-brooklyn-nets-new-york-knicks-590x900.jpg)

"Just about everyone who posts on this Forum is an _________________."

Sorry to hear of his passing. It was a real pleasure talking Knicks with him over the years. A true gentleman and friend on the forum.

Rest In Peace, Biz.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on July 17, 2021, 11:36:02 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 14, 2021, 11:05:52 PM
Chip's guy Holiday not gettin it done.
Chip's guy Holiday is one of the baddest-ass m'fers I have ever had the EXTREME pleasure of watching.

MMM-MMM GOOD!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 17, 2021, 11:39:47 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on July 17, 2021, 11:36:02 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 14, 2021, 11:05:52 PM
Chip's guy Holiday not gettin it done.
Chip's guy Holiday is one of the baddest-ass m'fers I have ever had the EXTREME pleasure of watching.

MMM-MMM GOOD!

A winner.

Donnie whiffed.

Badly.

Fell in our lap.

Oh well
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 18, 2021, 09:40:27 AM
Quite a second quarter for the Bucks

How do the Suns let this happen at home?

Tempo was key - PHX doesnt need it to be a track meet.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 18, 2021, 10:51:34 AM
Excellent comeback by Suns late - tough to see Book not get off that shot at 120-119.

Would love to rerun the tapes of all the commentary after Game 2.  NBA Radio was comical, in particular Rick Kamla.

Budenholzer the most maligned good coach around.  I see its now about to become a black coached league.   Hope Mike can survive.   A title helps if he gets it.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 18, 2021, 10:53:09 AM
Not sure of the refereeing but glad they didnt miss the late foul on Paul on the Giannis dunk.
Title: Re: Biz
Post by: FWK00 on July 18, 2021, 11:29:56 AM
Quote from: NeedsAdjustments on July 17, 2021, 09:31:06 AM
Quote from: chipstern on July 16, 2021, 10:47:30 PM
A Peaceful Journey, SIR...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aofoBrFNdg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aofoBrFNdg)

JUST A FRIEND

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xl9kWE-7aGU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xl9kWE-7aGU)

"Just about everyone who works in the post office is an Alien."

(https://images2.minutemediacdn.com/image/fetch/w_736,h_485,c_fill,g_auto,f_auto/https%3A%2F%2Ffansided.com%2Ffiles%2F2014%2F07%2Falan-houston-nba-brooklyn-nets-new-york-knicks-590x900.jpg)

"Just about everyone who posts on this Forum is an _________________."

Sorry to hear of his passing. It was a real pleasure talking Knicks with him over the years. A true gentleman and friend on the forum.

Rest In Peace, Biz.

RIP

This is the hardest thing about growing old. Watching friends and acquaintances pass.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on July 19, 2021, 12:42:23 PM
Biz who posted here wasn't the actual Biz Markie. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 19, 2021, 03:46:44 PM
Fucking morons
Title: Morons
Post by: carlos123 on July 19, 2021, 04:22:47 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 19, 2021, 03:46:44 PM
Fucking morons

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLWDWClzFZzeXctKJuxzagN1j46e6zq2EAoiDDmPh038jX2OPXG_5aykUoA1OBqeSIavC_nq-S_O1Q2hSePOp0ur9dZQcXJ7dXFFzjfZv9Cmigq01nVn4CLQyov_QFrvbrz_63zEXtCipUQmqm7n1UkT=w626-h570-no?authuser=0)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 19, 2021, 10:11:55 PM
I asked five sources for a team in the first round most likely to move up, and they all said the Knicks. The Knicks have picks No. 19 and 21, along with two second-rounders and an extra top-ten protected pick in 2023 (from Dallas). Multiple sources said there’s a player in the low teens that they have targeted, but no one’s sure who it is. – via Matt Moore @ Action Network


per Hoopshype
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on July 20, 2021, 12:04:43 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 19, 2021, 03:46:44 PM
Fucking morons

lol ... no need to make it plural, there's only one in this forum currently!

Nice read: "NBA Finals: Giannis Antetokounmpo is MVP favorite, but Jrue Holiday is the one who swung this series for Bucks" https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-finals-giannis-antetokounmpo-is-mvp-favorite-but-jrue-holiday-is-the-one-who-swung-this-series-for-bucks/amp/ (https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-finals-giannis-antetokounmpo-is-mvp-favorite-but-jrue-holiday-is-the-one-who-swung-this-series-for-bucks/amp/)

Or maybe ya likes this one better; lmao: "Jrue Holiday’s Defense May Have Saved The Bucks’ Title Dreams | FiveThirtyEight" https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/jrue-holidays-defense-may-have-saved-the-bucks-title-dreams/amp/ (http://"Jrue Holiday’s Defense May Have Saved The Bucks’ Title Dreams | FiveThirtyEight" https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/jrue-holidays-defense-may-have-saved-the-bucks-title-dreams/amp/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 20, 2021, 11:37:39 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 19, 2021, 10:11:55 PM
I asked five sources for a team in the first round most likely to move up, and they all said the Knicks. The Knicks have picks No. 19 and 21, along with two second-rounders and an extra top-ten protected pick in 2023 (from Dallas). Multiple sources said there’s a player in the low teens that they have targeted, but no one’s sure who it is. – via Matt Moore @ Action Network


per Hoopshype

Just hit me that it might be Kispert
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 20, 2021, 11:39:35 AM
Atlantic division needs, per Hoopshype's Eric Yearian

In this column last year, I openly questioned if the Knicks could ever be good as long as James Dolan was the owner. I was clearly wrong, as the Knicks not only made the playoffs, but were the 4th seed in the East. Now the question becomes, can they build on this success? Julius Randle was a revelation. RJ Barrett started figuring out how to be more effective and efficient as the season went on. Immanuel Quickley outperformed everybody’s expectations, and the team was legitimately good despite Mitchell Robinson being injured and Obi Toppin being a disappointment. The Knicks really need to enhance their point guard position, preferably one that can create for themselves and for others. The Knicks have the salary cap space to make it happen, and because they’ve now shown an ability to win, they might be able to convince a top tier free agent to come to the Big Apple and enhance the team further. The first option may not be free agency though, as the team will assuredly do their due diligence on Damian Lillard. They would have to give up key young players to make it happen, but they’d likely be willing to move heaven and earth to have a star of that magnitude next to Julius Randle. However, if that falls through, it wouldn’t surprise me to see them go after players such as Kawhi Leonard (if he opts for free agency), DeMar DeRozan, or Lonzo Ball. They may also be content just to try and bring Derrick Rose back for another season. They also have the 19th and 21st overall pick in the draft. They could keep the picks and look to add more young talent to the roster or package them in a bid to move up for an earlier pick. If they stay at 19 and 21, some realistic options include Illinois’ Ayo Dosunmu, Alabama’s Joshua Primo, Florida’s Tre Mann, or LSU’s Cam Thomas. The Knicks are in a good position to further strengthen their team and prove that last season was not simply a fluke


https://www.nbadraft.net/2021-nba-draft-team-needs-atlantic-division/

Title: Now Now Brown Clown
Post by: chipstern on July 20, 2021, 12:15:37 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on July 20, 2021, 12:04:43 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 19, 2021, 03:46:44 PM
Fucking morons

lol ... no need to make it plural, there's only one in this forum currently!

Nice read: "NBA Finals: Giannis Antetokounmpo is MVP favorite, but Jrue Holiday is the one who swung this series for Bucks" https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-finals-giannis-antetokounmpo-is-mvp-favorite-but-jrue-holiday-is-the-one-who-swung-this-series-for-bucks/amp/ (https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-finals-giannis-antetokounmpo-is-mvp-favorite-but-jrue-holiday-is-the-one-who-swung-this-series-for-bucks/amp/)

Or maybe ya likes this one better; lmao: "Jrue Holiday’s Defense May Have Saved The Bucks’ Title Dreams | FiveThirtyEight" https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/jrue-holidays-defense-may-have-saved-the-bucks-title-dreams/amp/ (http://"Jrue Holiday’s Defense May Have Saved The Bucks’ Title Dreams | FiveThirtyEight" https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/jrue-holidays-defense-may-have-saved-the-bucks-title-dreams/amp/)

Now Now Dawg, no need to be harsh with Schmucker Carlson, our very own Trannie Douche.   

He always is slightly on edge this time of month when his menstraul cycle kicks in. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 20, 2021, 01:10:29 PM
For our Boston brethren:

The Celtics kind of kicked off the off-season moves by ditching Kemba Walker in a trade that netted them Moses Brown and Al Horford from the Thunder (and trading away their first round pick in the process). Because they underachieved this season and the front office game of musical chairs that has happened since the offseason began, there has been talk that they need to trade Jaylen Brown as well. However, that would be a mistake. The Celtics have a scary good, young duo in Brown and Jayson Tatum, and Marcus Smart is an absolute nuisance on the defensive end who routinely gets in the heads of his opponents. That is not a bad start to a dangerous team. However, the problem with this team that hurts them is that Tatum is asked to do entirely too much. He had four games of 40+ points last season, including a 60 point outburst in a win against San Antonio. However, he doesn’t get enough easy looks and often times Celtics possessions amount to Tatum or Brown simply looking to break their man down and score on their own. Kemba was supposed to take some of that pressure off, but was never truly able to be the difference maker for Boston. Now Boston is in a situation where it’s difficult to fix that glaring roster need. Smart is capable of playing the point guard position, but he’s not able to play it the way Boston needs somebody to play it: as a pass-first guard that looks to get teammates the ball in position to get easy scores. As long as the Celtics have to manufacture their points by running “give the ball to Tatum/Brown and get out of the way” they are going to struggle in the post season. Unfortunately, being over the salary cap and not having a first round pick, it’s going to be tough for the Celtics to remedy the issues on their roster. They still have enough talent to be good, but with the Bucks, Nets, and even the Sixers in the conference, it could be an uphill battle for the Celtics and their young talent to capitalize on their potential. Unless their new coach, Ime Udoka, can scheme easy looks for them, the Celtics may have a cap on just how good they can be right now.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on July 20, 2021, 01:33:57 PM
Nothing new or shocking in that. Celts need a PG or a wing who can pass/playmake and they needed one last year. Once Kemba went down they were sort of cooked. There was no flow and the offense got stagnant. IMO Prichard is not the guy to run the team. Its possible that Langford could be. Celts are still a pretty young team, with some very good young players. I'll tell you when I get long-term worried, and that includes competing with the Bucks, Nets or 76ers. Celts aren't that far away.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 20, 2021, 03:39:04 PM
Right.

But you are supposed to have the rest of the conference looking up at you by now, judging where you were 18 months ago, no?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on July 20, 2021, 04:42:41 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 20, 2021, 03:39:04 PM
Right.

But you are supposed to have the rest of the conference looking up at you by now, judging where you were 18 months ago, no?

a lot of shit happened in 18 months. none of it good.

As we saw this year a lot of the league leading teams in the bubble had a very difficult time repeating their relative success this year.
And I posted early this year I thought covid exhaustion and a lack of downtime and prep time from the '19='20 season to this season would have a large impact on the '19-'20 bubble teams. And it seemed to play out that way.

As for the Celts they played in the post-season this year basically without 3 of their starters, Brown and very banged up Kemba, and Time Lord and reliant on a lot of untested young players and bowed out against the Durant/KI/Harden and lost to the Nets in 5. I think the Celts were mentally wiped out and checked out.

As posted too many times about everything that could go wrong did go wrong for the Celts. I do not easily remember so much bad luck hit a team so consistently from start to finish. It was never ending.

And my real take away was there was a lack of veteran leadership to lead a young and exhausted and confused team to focus.

I heavily discount results from this year.

Next year I hope to see a more mature and tested team.



 
Title: Sound Familiar?
Post by: chipstern on July 20, 2021, 04:46:19 PM
(https://www.azquotes.com/public/picture_quotes/4e/fb/4efb171db1dc072dbc72ff73b57be7ec/fyodor-dostoevsky-588022.jpg)
Title: I Bigger Moron Than Kiid?
Post by: chipstern on July 20, 2021, 05:02:44 PM
Turds Of A Feather

Kiid

&

Stephen A. Smith

(https://www.americanheritage.com/sites/default/files/inline-images/Earl%20Pierce%2C%20a%20Christy%20Minstrel%20star.jpg)

While strumming on his old banjo, this self inflated minstrel basically advocated trading RJ, IQ, Obi, the #19, 21, 32, 58 picks and [AND] the Dallas 2023 #1 pick for the exalted Dame. 

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/lBRr8KRaaMc/hqdefault.jpg)

JULY 29 cannot come a day too soon, so we no longer need to ingest such balderdash from experts talking out their asses. 

PS: There is NO WAY Corey Kisspert drops to #19.



Title: Rachel Robinson [July 19, 1922]: A Grand Lady
Post by: chipstern on July 20, 2021, 07:03:17 PM
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/7b/33/63/7b336349ec53d73261eac1f2c48ff2cb.jpg)

Gabby Hayes & Rachel Robinson At A Dodgers Game
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 20, 2021, 08:18:37 PM
Knox, Obi, one pick this year, and one in the future for Sexton is where I’d put NY’s current offer. I don’t want to cater to a Dame or Paul or Lowry. Ball and/or Jackson, or someone similar is worth pursuing.

This isn’t a great free agent class to find your second star, but as a class to find compliments to a core like Mitch Randle Barrett Sexton along with young roster fillers and journeymen holdovers like we have it’s not a bad way to spend money.
Title: Re: Sound Familiar?
Post by: facilitatorn on July 20, 2021, 08:20:02 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 20, 2021, 04:46:19 PM
(https://www.azquotes.com/public/picture_quotes/4e/fb/4efb171db1dc072dbc72ff73b57be7ec/fyodor-dostoevsky-588022.jpg)

Yup. Heh.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 20, 2021, 08:52:01 PM
Knox, Obi, one pick this year, and one in the future for Sexton is where I’d put NY’s current offer.


Not signing for that
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 20, 2021, 08:52:45 PM
You are foolishly dealing the son of a Rucker legend
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 20, 2021, 09:27:33 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 20, 2021, 08:18:37 PM
Knox, Obi, one pick this year, and one in the future for Sexton is where I’d put NY’s current offer. I don’t want to cater to a Dame or Paul or Lowry. Ball and/or Jackson, or someone similar is worth pursuing.

This isn’t a great free agent class to find your second star, but as a class to find compliments to a core like Mitch Randle Barrett Sexton along with young roster fillers and journeymen holdovers like we have it’s not a bad way to spend money.

For Sexton?

FUCK SEXTON. 

Save the money, draft young talent, squirrel away cap space money for 2022 free agents. 

Like Bradley Beal.  Zach Levine. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 20, 2021, 10:55:57 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 20, 2021, 08:52:45 PM
You are foolishly dealing the son of a Rucker legend

Who can get 15 mins max next year. There are a lot of 15 minute PFs available in FA who’ll come for less than we owe Obi who’ll be just as if not more effective in the role, just as there are guys available to cheaply and reliably replace Knox.

How many 22year old 24 point scorer speed merchant workaholics are available in deals that still let us use the bulk of our cap space and draft assets this season to improve the team AFTER we acquire them? Without costing key core producers under contract?

I think it’s just the one.

What were Beal and Lavine accomplishing at 22? What were their reputations like?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 20, 2021, 11:03:03 PM
Save the money, draft young talent, squirrel away cap space money for 2022 free agents.


As the kids say - EPIC FAIL
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on July 20, 2021, 11:49:17 PM
That was a epic performance by Giannis.

He joins Achilles, Hercules, and Jason in the Greek pantheon

The guy would not let that team lose.

Congrats to the Bucks
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 21, 2021, 03:31:43 AM
Bucks definitely deserved it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on July 21, 2021, 09:41:01 AM
The Bucks the better team.

And the performance last night by Giannis was beautiful basketball. Just outstanding in every aspect of the game.

I love his statement later:

"Obviously I wanted to get the job done. But that's my stubborn side. It's easy to go somewhere and go win a championship with somebody else. It's easy. ... I could go to a super team and just do my part and win a championship....But this is the hard way to do it," he continued, pounding the dais for emphasis, "and this is the way to do it, and we did it. We f---ing did it."



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 21, 2021, 09:57:29 AM
Quote from: elephant on July 21, 2021, 09:41:01 AM
The Bucks the better team.

Yes.  But "better" teams quite often fall

Quote

And the performance last night by Giannis was beautiful basketball. Just outstanding in every aspect of the game.

Was stated yesterday by an analyst that G had changed his game up - and that did involve trusting his mates.  But you can do that and still score in bushels
Quote

I love his statement later:

"Obviously I wanted to get the job done. But that's my stubborn side. It's easy to go somewhere and go win a championship with somebody else. It's easy. ... I could go to a super team and just do my part and win a championship....But this is the hard way to do it," he continued, pounding the dais for emphasis, "and this is the way to do it, and we did it. We f---ing did it."

heh - let's see if he stays long term, even the six years.  One year titlists are aplenty.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 21, 2021, 09:58:27 AM
Lets face it - Giannis got to play the Hawks - and the Suns.

Epic kill tally it was not.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on July 21, 2021, 11:12:31 AM
the beautiful thing about the sun rising in the morning is it gives a person a new chance to be an idiot!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on July 21, 2021, 11:13:50 AM
beautiful series
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 21, 2021, 11:15:45 AM
I guess Les isnt seeing the Knicks (or any East club) taking Giannis down any time soon.

We shall see.  Better keep the glue guys.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 21, 2021, 11:20:02 AM
Bucks - 6 rotation guys signed for next year including a rehabbing Donte.

At 130 mil
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 21, 2021, 11:21:34 AM
As a comparison - just for instance - Celtics are at about 95 mil for TEN guys.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 21, 2021, 11:25:54 AM
Knicks are about 38 mil for FIVE players.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 21, 2021, 11:28:17 AM
Happy to see MILW knows how to party

Only THREE shot last night amidst celebrating

(If it was Minneapolis, who knows....?)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on July 21, 2021, 11:33:28 AM
the beautiful thing about the second hand moving on the clock is it gives a person a new chance to be an idiot!
Title: Chances
Post by: carlos123 on July 21, 2021, 12:19:16 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on July 21, 2021, 11:33:28 AM
the beautiful thing about the second hand moving on the clock is it gives a person a new chance to be an idiot!

Les, the “person” you’re referring to doesn’t need ANYTHING rising or moving to be an idiot.

He doesn’t even need a chance.

Being an idiot is just his inmutable nature.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 21, 2021, 12:22:35 PM
Kid got tired of being punched in the face so he started posting anonymously on the internet. Now his humors are more balanced as he dumps his bile here. IRL, he could never get all the treasonous poisonous song of his heart out because he’d have to stop and staunch his bloody nose.

Kid is basically a useless feckless cunt, but he provides a template for people who deserve a whooping. Having subjected oneself to Kid’s posts, one can comfortably skip minutes of useless conversation with people like him and get straight to work.
Title: Idiocracy
Post by: chipstern on July 21, 2021, 12:39:49 PM
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c3/e2/c4/c3e2c486dbae2598ad2006d60dd8ab5a.gif)

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/29/bc/01/29bc01f6f40603a8e8fd87071376ab3f.gif)

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/f768a7b12d0331b5b4d40a27a1e3926d/tenor.gif?itemid=5981575)

Kiid Working Up To Another HEH

(https://happylifestyleinc.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/QAnon-Shaman-Angers-Judge-For-Appearing-on-60-Minutes.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Hairy Lime on July 21, 2021, 01:55:18 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 20, 2021, 09:27:33 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 20, 2021, 08:18:37 PM
Knox, Obi, one pick this year, and one in the future for Sexton is where I’d put NY’s current offer. I don’t want to cater to a Dame or Paul or Lowry. Ball and/or Jackson, or someone similar is worth pursuing.

This isn’t a great free agent class to find your second star, but as a class to find compliments to a core like Mitch Randle Barrett Sexton along with young roster fillers and journeymen holdovers like we have it’s not a bad way to spend money.

For Sexton?

FUCK SEXTON. 

Save the money, draft young talent, squirrel away cap space money for 2022 free agents. 

Like Bradley Beal.  Zach Levine.
The problem with getting good before you get great: the players that kick you over the top aren't available in the draft at 19.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 21, 2021, 02:11:29 PM
eh......

this year its more about free agent $$ but

a)  stranger things have happened than getting a real "player" at 19

b)  we have been reading many viable scenarios where NY moves up
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Hairy Lime on July 21, 2021, 02:19:16 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 21, 2021, 02:11:29 PM
eh......

this year its more about free agent $$ but

a)  stranger things have happened than getting a real "player" at 19

b)  we have been reading many viable scenarios where NY moves up
Good luck with that. It is not the NFL, volume does not buy quality.
Title: Draft
Post by: Kam on July 21, 2021, 02:27:56 PM
Trey Murphy would be ideal at #19.   But we might have to move up to grab him.

In Free Agency I think targeting Cameron Payne is a no-brainer.

That's two rotation players with a combined cap impact under $15 mil per year.

I'd look to keep cap space open while signing our own guys and free agents to tradable contracts.

Let Brock Aller run the room. 

Keep our options open for a mid-season trade when the wheels fall off for a team like the Blazers or Wizards and you can get a star on the cheap.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 21, 2021, 02:31:51 PM
Quote from: Hairy Lime on July 21, 2021, 02:19:16 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 21, 2021, 02:11:29 PM
eh......

this year its more about free agent $$ but

a)  stranger things have happened than getting a real "player" at 19

b)  we have been reading many viable scenarios where NY moves up
Good luck with that. It is not the NFL, volume does not buy quality.

WE (NYK) did it last year

And I think if you were honest you would say it (Quickley) worked out.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 21, 2021, 03:27:42 PM
Charles Bassey and Ayo Dosunmu were among players who worked out for the Knicks at their facility on Tuesday, per SNY sources. The workout also included Trey Murphy III, Tre Mann, and Isaiah Jackson, SNY sources confirm. – via Ian Begley @ Yahoo! Sports
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 21, 2021, 04:11:46 PM
ESPN announced on Wednesday that NBA and NFL analyst and host Maria Taylor is officially leaving the network. According to the statement released by ESPN, Taylor and the network couldn’t come to an agreement on a contract extension. Her final assignment was Tuesday night’s coverage of Game 6 of the NBA Finals. – via Liz Roscher @ Yahoo! Sports



heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 21, 2021, 04:54:06 PM
Quote from: Hairy Lime on July 21, 2021, 01:55:18 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 20, 2021, 09:27:33 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 20, 2021, 08:18:37 PM
Knox, Obi, one pick this year, and one in the future for Sexton is where I’d put NY’s current offer. I don’t want to cater to a Dame or Paul or Lowry. Ball and/or Jackson, or someone similar is worth pursuing.

This isn’t a great free agent class to find your second star, but as a class to find compliments to a core like Mitch Randle Barrett Sexton along with young roster fillers and journeymen holdovers like we have it’s not a bad way to spend money.

For Sexton?

FUCK SEXTON. 

Save the money, draft young talent, squirrel away cap space money for 2022 free agents. 

Like Bradley Beal.  Zach Levine.
The problem with getting good before you get great: the players that kick you over the top aren't available in the draft at 19.

Do we really want to give Sexton a max contract in the summer of 2022?

And give up Obi and both of our #1 picks. 

Big Game Hunting for the Shiny Object gets us in trouble every time. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 21, 2021, 05:26:56 PM
Just SEVENTEEN players in the NBA took 18+ shots per game and had a TS% 57 or above

Mitchell
Booker
Beal
McCollum
Doncic
SEXTON
......

23 years old next season

Shiny object

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on July 21, 2021, 07:02:08 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 21, 2021, 05:26:56 PM
Just SEVENTEEN players in the NBA took 18+ shots per game and had a TS% 57 or above

Mitchell
Booker
Beal
McCollum
Doncic
SEXTON
......

23 years old next season

Shiny object

heh

Not a meaningful argument.

88 players had a True Shooting (TS) percentage of 57 or more. Sexton comes in at the illustrious 83 slot with a percentage of 57.2.

(Bullock, BTW, came in at 60.1)

But, oh, he took a lot of shots! Okay, so if we look at guys who shot 18 times or more a game — that's 24 players — 19 of those players reached that 57% mark.Most had a much better percentage than Sexton. And those who didn't get to the 57% mark (like Fox or Randle) are just a little below.

In short, you brandish this stat likes it's saying something grand. It's not. It simply suggests that he's a pretty good scorer and he shot the ball a lot last year.

Like, you know, we know that.
Title: Shiny Objects
Post by: chipstern on July 21, 2021, 07:52:22 PM
Quote from: elephant on July 21, 2021, 07:02:08 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 21, 2021, 05:26:56 PM
Just SEVENTEEN players in the NBA took 18+ shots per game and had a TS% 57 or above

Mitchell
Booker
Beal
McCollum
Doncic
SEXTON
......

23 years old next season

Shiny object

heh

Not a meaningful argument.

88 players had a True Shooting (TS) percentage of 57 or more. Sexton comes in at the illustrious 83 slot with a percentage of 57.2.

(Bullock, BTW, came in at 60.1)

But, oh, he took a lot of shots! Okay, so if we look at guys who shot 18 times or more a game — that's 24 players — 19 of those players reached that 57% mark.Most had a much better percentage than Sexton. And those who didn't get to the 57% mark (like Fox or Randle) are just a little below.

In short, you brandish this stat likes it's saying something grand. It's not. It simply suggests that he's a pretty good scorer and he shot the ball a lot last year.

Like, you know, we know that.

Truth To Consequences. 

Stephon Marbury took a lot of shots, didn't always keep his teammates involved, and was not enthusiastic about D. 

Started off out of the gate as a good distributor in his first two seasons, at 9.3, and 8.1 assists per game. 

And as the number of his shots went down so did his FT attempts and percentages. 

Steph was 26 when we got him.  Sexton is 23

Obviously, I'm not saying that Sexton is a bad player, but he is an inefficient one. 

As his number of shots has escalated, his 3-point and FT% have all gone down.  His assists were up last year, but 4.4 for 35 minutes, based on over 18 shots per game is not favorable to me.  His turnovers have also been ascending. 

Derrick in 26 minutes per over 35 games had 4.2 assists.  His three point shooting was up to .411, while FT % ascended to .883

Kevin and our #21 pick?  Okay.  Maybe sweeten with the #32 pick.  Maybe

Kevin AND Obi and #19 and #21? 

NO THANK YOU.

PS: Have the Knicks given up on Kevin?  I haven't.  Gut feeling.  He did improve, though he was buried behind Bullock and Burks.  We shall see.   

PPS: IQ still has holes in his game.  He was inefficient from 2-point range, and could use some seasoning as a facilitator, as he often was so focused on his penetration, that he didn't offload the ball and keep it moving around the horn.  He also averaged like 9.1 shots per 19.4 minutes, which puts him into Sexton range for hoisting.  Right now Sexton is a far more efficient 2-pt shooter, but to me their games seem similar in many ways, and I would just as soon nurture IQ and Vildoza as combo guards behind Rose, and find a yount collegian PG in what is a pretty rich harvest of PGs in the second tier. 
Title: Fantasy Camp
Post by: chipstern on July 21, 2021, 08:07:28 PM
As far as free agents or trade targets, in what has been speculated. 

Lonzo Ball

Cameron Payne

Hold far more allure for me that paying Colin Sexton 30-35 million a year commencing in 2022

If Lonzo could be had for in the neighborhood of Van Vleet money give or take [4 x 84] or Payne could be had for 10-12 thereabouts. 

Well that's the way my heart is speaking. 

But again, I would be happy with Rose, Quickley, Vildoza AND a Collegian. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 21, 2021, 08:46:02 PM
Not a meaningful argument.

88 players had a True Shooting (TS) percentage of 57 or more. Sexton comes in at the illustrious 83 slot with a percentage of 57.2.

(Bullock, BTW, came in at 60.1)

Yep.  Good shooters

And this guy is ultra explosive

But I am sure you are about to cite his defense

Rock on, Bo - I mean Chip
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 21, 2021, 08:47:07 PM
At least we agree the price is too steep.

Do you want Cam Payne instead?  That'd be fine.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 21, 2021, 08:52:12 PM
But again, I would be happy with Rose, Quickley, Vildoza AND a Collegian.


Name any amount and I will give you 5-1 odds this is not happening

I am IN on adding a collegian, as I have posted.

McClung (Tx Tech) probably goes to Charlotte as an undrafted (would prefer over Knicks/Celts).  Hoping for McBride or Hyland.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on July 21, 2021, 10:54:17 PM
please, KK and Frankie for a bag of balls.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 21, 2021, 11:20:52 PM
Kevin and our #21 pick?  Okay.  Maybe sweeten with the #32 pick.  Maybe

Kevin AND Obi and #19 and #21?

NO THANK YOU.


Could be worse.  One deal in print had us getting T Prince and Love with Collin.  And giving up the farm.

heh

Would be interesting, adding the role players as re-signs.

note:  deal had us keeping Mitch and Julius.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on July 21, 2021, 11:32:09 PM
Quote from: Hairy Lime on July 21, 2021, 01:55:18 PM
The problem with getting good before you get great: the players that kick you over the top aren't available in the draft at 19.

True. You need a 15 to get a Giannis. Could be worse though — if we only had second rounders we might have to settle for a Jokic.

Stick your f'n picks, wherever they are
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 22, 2021, 02:38:06 AM
Kevin, Obi, 21, & 32 would probably be my limit. I’d prefer Kevin, Obi, 21 & Dallas 2023, or Kevin, 19, & 21 instead. Any of those three combos and we are making out like bandits if Sexton works out for us. I’d sub Quickly for Obi, but then I’d also have to degrade the picks some because in terms of production over salary IQ has so far been the more valuable player though he’s probably easier to replace.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Hairy Lime on July 22, 2021, 01:41:14 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on July 21, 2021, 11:32:09 PM
Quote from: Hairy Lime on July 21, 2021, 01:55:18 PM
The problem with getting good before you get great: the players that kick you over the top aren't available in the draft at 19.

True. You need a 15 to get a Giannis. Could be worse though — if we only had second rounders we might have to settle for a Jokic.

Stick your f'n picks, wherever they are
Kawhi Leonard was a 15 as well. I did not mean that it can't be done, but that it is hard to do. Most drafts do not offer any players of that level that late. So you have to both have the player there and the ability to spot him - and.hope others don't spot him as well. Most years nailing the 15th pick gets you a good quality starter, but not a Robin for your Batman. And.to go back to the point, it is not worth while in the NBA for a team to trade picks for volume. It is much easier to nail your pick at 11 than at 19 and 21. It is a bad risk.

Note: what i thought was my point was.my point in a different post. My bad. As to the point from this point,.nailing the 19 means getting a good player,  but for most teams that will not make a.difference between a good team and a championship one.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 22, 2021, 02:32:21 PM
Isnt there any part of you concerned that any player that MIGHT come to Cleveland for 25+ mil per season (if there is any player) will not be as good for the bottom line as Sexton?

If it is a Sexton/Garland just doesnt gel thing isnt it wise to also think of moving Darius?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Hairy Lime on July 22, 2021, 02:42:19 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 22, 2021, 02:32:21 PM
Isnt there any part of you concerned that any player that MIGHT come to Cleveland for 25+ mil per season (if there is any player) will not be as good for the bottom line as Sexton?

If it is a Sexton/Garland just doesnt gel thing isnt it wise to also think of moving Darius?
Me? I have limited trust in the Cavs management, unless we can get a game changing local talent to stay home, or return home, again I think we are doomed.

I think choosing Garland over Sexton is the right call, though.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 22, 2021, 06:33:15 PM
Good player - Garland

I wonder who would play the 2 guard if we made the deal with you guys without Barrett.

Dylan Windler, maybe?

Title: Tag, You're Full Of SHIT; The Schmucker Carlson Memoirs
Post by: chipstern on July 23, 2021, 12:39:23 AM
The notion that nothing good comes of mid to late first round draft picks, or second rounders, is such specious self serving horse shit, I would suggest you cease postings and instead follow your natural talents where you are best aligned, exercise your second amendment and racist inclinations and shoot up some Korean Nail Salons.  Then wait for the police to come and treat you to a Burger King lunch like they did for your Cousin, Dylan Roof. 

2011: #19 [Tobias Harris], #30 [Jimmy Butler],

2012: #20 [Evan Fournier], #26 [Miles Plumlee], #34 [Jae Crowder], #35 [Draymond Green] #39 [Kris Middleton], #40 [Will Barton]

2013: #15 [Giannis Antetokounmpo], #17 [Dennis Schröder], #24 [Timmy Hardaway], #25 [Reggie Bullock], #27 [Rudy Gobert]

2014: #25 [Clint Capella], #27 [Bogdan Bogdanović], #33 [Joe Harris], #34 [Cleanthony Early...]hahaha], #38 [Spencer Dinwiddie], #39 [Jerami Grant], #41 [Nikola Jokić], #45 [Dwight Powell], #46 [Jordan Clarkson]

2015: #22 [Bobby Portis], #27 [Larry Nance, JR], #32 [Montrezl Harrell], #41 [Pat Connaughton]

2016:  #19 [Malik Beasley], #20 [Caris LeVert], #27 [Pascal Siakam], #29 [DeJounte Murray], #32 [Ivica Zubac]

2017: #18 [TJ Leaf], #19 [John Collins], #22 [Jarrett Allen], #23 [OG Anunoby], #27 [Kyle Kuzma], #30 [Josh Hart]

2018: #18 [Lonnie Walker], #19 [Kevin Huerter], #26 [Landry Shamet]. #27 [Robert Williams], #33 [Jalen Brunson], #34 [Devounte Graham], #36 [Mitchell Robinson], #37 [Gary Trent JR], #54 [Shake Milton] 

2019: #20 [Matisse Thybulle], #28 [Jordan Poole], #30 [Kevin Porter Jr.], #31 [Nicolas Claxton], #41 [Eric Paschal], #48 [Terence Mann, one pick after Iggy] #52 [Jalen McDaniels]

2020: #19 [Saddiq Bey], #20 [Precious Achiuwa], #21 [Tyrese Maxey], #24 [R.J. Hampton], #25 [Immanuel Quickley], #26 [Payton Pritchards], #28 [Jaden McDaniels], #29 [Malachi Flynn], #30 [Desmond Bane]

This is why you accumulate draft picks and do not so cavalierly give them away. 

This draft has serious talent a #19, 21 and 32. 

I'm not saying we hold on to our picks for dear life, but damn near. 

Prudent, patient, purposeful scouting and analysis is how teams like the Spurs and Heat seemingly stay competitive and make the playoffs year after year, even though they invariably drafting between 19-32. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 23, 2021, 08:34:53 AM
2014 - quite impressive

I think he is looking for world beaters, not rotation guys.  Giannis and Kawhi certainly do qualify.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 23, 2021, 08:41:35 AM
Furthering his point - along with saying that getting a STUD with such late picks is a pipe dream - there is a greater likelihood - given your own list - that a player is a minor or non contributor than a solid rotation guy after pick 15.

I like all draftees - they contribute to the process - the character of a team - make others better simply by pushing for time.  60 of the best, the new crop - each year - of which we see half or more in some measure.

But having TWO/THREE after 18 - compared with one 12 and under - not sure it is wise to take the former lot - ever.  Making your selection 6 picks sooner is like Christmas morning.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 23, 2021, 08:44:57 AM
I see three studs on your list after 15 - and this is of 450 picks.  0.66 per cent
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 23, 2021, 09:02:24 AM
By the way - your beloved MIAMI has recently dealt away a first rounder in '22 and '23 and about 4 future seconds.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Hairy Lime on July 23, 2021, 09:02:54 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 23, 2021, 08:34:53 AM
2014 - quite impressive

I think he is looking for world beaters, not rotation guys.  Giannis and Kawhi certainly do qualify.
Yes, that was my point. With some exceptions, you do not get the guy who pushes a good team to greatness. Which is why getting good too soon can hamper a bid for greatness. I have always thought the problem with the 2003 and later Cavs was James made them too good too soon (that and Carlos Boozer fucking over a blind guy). Yes, they screwed up the draft picks they did have but drafting in double figures is harder than the lottery. It is also why moving down more than two or so slots for quantity makes little sense. Sure, you might get Leonard, or Butler, or Drey or the Greek Freak, but you are more likely to get Larry Nance Jr. Nice guy, you need players like him, but he will never be the reason you hoist the trophy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 23, 2021, 11:09:16 AM
Yeah, it's always the EXCEPTIONS that have the crazies in an uproar.

"Denver got Jokic at____, so we can...."

I like this new management group, so favor their HITTING over missing at 19 and 21.  But we will see.  Reports ARE that they are attempting to move up.  Chip's ire might be best directed at them,, I guess.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 23, 2021, 06:11:45 PM
Here’s a trade up scenario I’d consider,

GS sends Wiggins, 7, and 14 for Knox, Quickley, 21, 19.

It gives them two guys they can plug in right away, while almost halving their luxury tax and giving them cheaper commitments in the parity portion of the draft.

We’d have Mitch Randle Wiggins Barrett Luca to add picks 7 & 14 to, say Bouknight and Murphy, along with 32 for a backup big, with change to chase another big contract guy or resign most of our vets.

I personally think we stand pat and make the picks. I think most teams do this year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on July 23, 2021, 10:06:52 PM
Exceptions…lmao….
Y’all babble & babble & burble & dribble

Stick your f’n picks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 24, 2021, 12:50:56 AM
Another golden state proposal, Looney + 7 for Mitch, Luca, & 21.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on July 24, 2021, 10:33:06 PM
GS doesn't want those packages.  They're trying to trade for an established star player.   And why do they need Mitch when they have Wiseman?

GS would want Randle or perhaps RJ if they were forced to only consider a trade with the Knicks.  And the Knicks would say no to that.



Title: Potential trade
Post by: Kam on July 24, 2021, 10:39:42 PM
New Orleans sends Eric Bledsoe (owed 18mil for 2021-2022) and the #10 pick -> for #19 and #21

Knicks could part with him next offseason with his partially guaranteed pricetag of 3.9mil
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 24, 2021, 11:00:05 PM
That’s tough.

It turns on what kind of asset you consider Bledsoe. Also how you felt Rose was feeling about resigning and for what.

I think the pick value is about a wash in my book.

If we did that, I’d be gunning hard for Norm Powell in free agency.
Title: Team USA
Post by: Kam on July 25, 2021, 12:31:34 PM
The French (missing Frank) defeat the Americans (missing Randle)
Title: Guess What?
Post by: chipstern on July 25, 2021, 05:16:25 PM
Kawhi Leonard could miss entire 2021-22 season

Adam Aaronson: Woj says he’s gotten no indication that Kawhi Leonard is interested in leaving the Clippers. Says the Clippers are acting with Kawhi being on the roster in mind. But… “There’s an expectation that he could miss next season.” – via Twitter
Title: Thursday
Post by: chipstern on July 25, 2021, 05:33:37 PM
Cannot come soon enough. 

If I have to read one more trade scenario, I shall plotz. 
Title: Re: Potential trade
Post by: chipstern on July 25, 2021, 05:35:57 PM
Quote from: Kam on July 24, 2021, 10:39:42 PM
New Orleans sends Eric Bledsoe (owed 18mil for 2021-2022) and the #10 pick -> for #19 and #21

Knicks could part with him next offseason with his partially guaranteed pricetag of 3.9mil

Bledsoe? 

Lordy. 
Title: Re: Team USA
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 25, 2021, 06:23:14 PM
Quote from: Kam on July 25, 2021, 12:31:34 PM
The French (missing Frank) defeat the Americans (missing Randle)

Wait - but we have Tatum...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 25, 2021, 06:26:56 PM
Bledsoe + 10 seems to be headed to Memphis for #17.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 25, 2021, 07:08:27 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 25, 2021, 06:26:56 PM
Bledsoe + 10 seems to be headed to Memphis for #17.

Mazel Tov.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 25, 2021, 10:16:27 PM
From Woj:

1) "In a perfect world for both Lonzo Ball and Chicago Bulls, they end up together."

2) Woj said that the Chicago Bulls are a potential landing spot for Derrick Rose.

3) A lot of teams are interested in Tomas Satoransky.

Sah-TOE!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 25, 2021, 10:21:36 PM
NBA rumors: Jazz shopping Joe Ingles, Bojan Bogdanovic and Royce O'Neale

Yes, please
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 25, 2021, 10:24:37 PM
Carmelo Anthony (4 Olympic medals) not being in Tokyo is like when asshole women's soccer coach wanted to cut Carly Lloyd.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 26, 2021, 12:13:20 AM
On the eve of draft week, I’d like Murphy III, Mann, and Bassey. I’d be willing to move the last pick and a future second or two and possibly eat some salary to get it done.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 26, 2021, 12:37:23 AM
As it sits now - and with this mock (using players available when we pick)

https://www.nbadraft.net/nba-mock-drafts/?year-mock=2021

I take

JACKSON   https://www.nbadraft.net/players/isaiah-jackson/
BUTLER     https://www.nbadraft.net/players/jared-butler/
WIESKAMP  https://www.nbadraft.net/players/joe-wieskamp/

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 26, 2021, 12:44:39 AM
And if we still have 58, fuck it -

MAC MCCLUNG, though I also like BRYANT REAVES





Heh

Could have had him

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 26, 2021, 03:27:57 AM
Mocks I've seen nonsensically have Knix taking PF's such as Garuba and Kai Jones.  Maybe these are "positionless" mocks, but it makes zero sense to list Knix as selecting a PF, unless we're moving Randle and/or Obi.  (I still have no idea why Knix drafted a PF last year).

Knix of course looking to package the two picks and move up.
Also could package Franc or Knox with the 19 or 21 to move up higher.
Try to get into the Giddy, Davion Mitchell, Kispert range.

If the Knix do keep both 1st round picks (ie no trade works out), a few PG's are listed in the 20's.  Jared Butler, Sharife don't like it Cooper, Tre Mann.  And scoring G's such as Bones Hyland, Cam Thomas.  All would seem to fill a need.  What do folks think of those prospects?

PG's in the 20's are by definition hit or miss.  Knix have tried it with Jerian Grant (with okayish Delon Wright on board) and other times with Frankie Fly, Toney D, Mardy Collins.   But occasionally you can get a Rondo, Lowry, DeJounte Murray.  Brogdan and Brunson were high 2nd rounders.

This year's draft resembles last year's when Maxey, Quickly, Pritchard, Malachi Flynn went from 21-29.  While strong shooters Saddiq Bey #19 & Des Bane #30 were available.  Knix only need to get a PG who can replace Elf as backup PG, with potential upside to become a starter. 

19 & 21 -- a ballhandler/passer & a shooter. 
Though likely NYK trade up.  I like Franc + #19 for a lower lottery slot.
And then still pick at #21 in what seems a quality/deep draft.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 26, 2021, 08:06:47 AM
Hey, Bo - hope all is well

Tough call for me between Isaiah Jackson and PGs McBride and Hyland at 19.

Moving up still preferred if we could land a Kispert or even a Josh Giddey or Jonathan Kuminga

Imagine adding this talent:

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/josh-giddey/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 26, 2021, 11:47:54 AM
Bo! Wonderful to see you post.

We can’t do anything with Frank at the moment due to his free agency.

Sweetener or ballast type contracts in no particular order are last year’s rooks, Knox, Luca, and Pelle.

Mitch, Randle, RJ seem to be the current core of the core of our group to be kept out of everything but the biggest deals. 
Title: Oh, JOY
Post by: chipstern on July 26, 2021, 12:19:57 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 26, 2021, 03:27:57 AM
Mocks I've seen nonsensically have Knix taking PF's such as Garuba and Kai Jones.  Maybe these are "positionless" mocks, but it makes zero sense to list Knix as selecting a PF, unless we're moving Randle and/or Obi.  (I still have no idea why Knix drafted a PF last year).

Knix of course looking to package the two picks and move up.
Also could package Franc or Knox with the 19 or 21 to move up higher.
Try to get into the Giddy, Davion Mitchell, Kispert range.

If the Knix do keep both 1st round picks (ie no trade works out), a few PG's are listed in the 20's.  Jared Butler, Sharife don't like it Cooper, Tre Mann.  And scoring G's such as Bones Hyland, Cam Thomas.  All would seem to fill a need.  What do folks think of those prospects?

PG's in the 20's are by definition hit or miss.  Knix have tried it with Jerian Grant (with okayish Delon Wright on board) and other times with Frankie Fly, Toney D, Mardy Collins.   But occasionally you can get a Rondo, Lowry, DeJounte Murray.  Brogdan and Brunson were high 2nd rounders.

This year's draft resembles last year's when Maxey, Quickly, Pritchard, Malachi Flynn went from 21-29.  While strong shooters Saddiq Bey #19 & Des Bane #30 were available.  Knix only need to get a PG who can replace Elf as backup PG, with potential upside to become a starter. 

19 & 21 -- a ballhandler/passer & a shooter. 
Though likely NYK trade up.  I like Franc + #19 for a lower lottery slot.
And then still pick at #21 in what seems a quality/deep draft.

(https://img.discogs.com/_RsEFQ-hJcfKLW4kvwMP6IomtMQ=/fit-in/300x300/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(40)/discogs-images/R-4497498-1580668112-5373.jpeg.jpg)
Title: Druthers
Post by: chipstern on July 26, 2021, 12:41:35 PM
I really would love Duarte, who checks all the boxes for size, shooting, defense and leadership. 

Would be surprised to see him sitting their at #19. 

Likewise Trey Murphy, who at 6'9" would be something of a dream date at SF, and while still maturing on defense, checks all the other boxes. 

He is on the rise an likely a goner at #19. 

There is a good chance 6'10" Kentucky center Isaiah Jackson could be sitting there, offering depth an defense at C-PF, in the event, rather likely, that Nerlens follows the money.  Mitchell insurance.   

That makes a certain amount of sense. 

However, like BoD, I am baffled by projections of more bigs.

Jared Butler, a 6'3 PG out of Baylor, is a fierce defender and competitor, a knock down shooter coming off of a championship run.  If he is sitting there at #21, I bite. 

One projection I read at #32, has Sharife Cooper, PG from Auburn being on the board.  I doubt he falls that far.  Tre Mann is highly regarded as a shooter, not so much as a facilitator. 

There appear to be a surfeit of second tier PG/Combos, like a Maxey or Quickley. 

We shall see. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on July 26, 2021, 01:43:26 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 26, 2021, 03:27:57 AM

If the Knix do keep both 1st round picks (ie no trade works out), a few PG's are listed in the 20's.  Jared Butler, Sharife don't like it Cooper, Tre Mann.  And scoring G's such as Bones Hyland, Cam Thomas.  All would seem to fill a need.  What do folks think of those prospects?

I pointed out some weeks back that I've seen a ton of Bones Hyland playing for VCU. He's great. But his build and game is strikingly similar to IQ. Makes NO sense to have both.

If you're trading IQ, okay. But if I had to choose between the two — and forecast who will have the best future — I'd go with the kid who already proved himself last season.
Title: ...from NBA to OLYMPICS + NFL
Post by: lesterluv on July 26, 2021, 01:59:58 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 21, 2021, 04:11:46 PM
ESPN announced on Wednesday that NBA and NFL analyst and host Maria Taylor is officially leaving the network. According to the statement released by ESPN, Taylor and the network couldn’t come to an agreement on a contract extension. Her final assignment was Tuesday night’s coverage of Game 6 of the NBA Finals. – via Liz Roscher @ Yahoo! Sports



heh

https://www.usnews.com/news/entertainment/articles/2021-07-23/nbc-quickly-hires-maria-taylor-after-her-departure-from-espn

So she moves WAY UP ...only thing higher is World Cup, let's see if NBC gets the rights after '26, lol


*** once again, assclown can't be more wrong, though apparently ESPN still smarting from "the boycott"


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on July 26, 2021, 02:04:53 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 26, 2021, 11:47:54 AM
Bo! Wonderful to see you post.

Apparently Zach's "posse" had him locked up for a few months in a Trap House just outside of Gary, Indiana.

I made the call. Got him let go.

Welcome Back Bo!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on July 26, 2021, 03:37:38 PM
Welcome back Bo!

I too am going to guess that Noel will be too expensive to retain and we will want some insurance behind Mitch and Taj.
In an ideal draft we get our PG and SF in the first round and draft a C with the #32 pick. 
Vernon Carey was the #32 last year and he made under 1.5 mil. 
I think that's what most modern "moneyball' front offices would like to spend on their backup C.

I'm also curious to see if Randle and OBI can co-exist. Toppin actually pairs well with other big men. (https://www.nba.com/stats/lineups/advanced/?Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612752&GroupQuantity=2&sort=NET_RATING&dir=1&CF=GROUP_NAME*E*Toppin)

But since it seems likely that Murphy will be gone by 19 I wouldn't mind seeing the Knicks move up to get him.
In which case we find a PG in free agency.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 26, 2021, 05:31:35 PM
Memphis and New Orleans do the desl.
Title: Yes, she will be working the Super Bowl, too...
Post by: lesterluv on July 26, 2021, 06:56:38 PM
(https://deadline.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Screen-Shot-2021-07-23-at-5.05.29-PM.png?w=681&h=383&crop=1)


absolute tippy tippy toppy of her profession! tippy tippy tippy tippy toppy! Well done....
Title: BoZ
Post by: carlos123 on July 26, 2021, 07:36:00 PM
Quote from: LesMyGoodDoggie on July 26, 2021, 02:04:53 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 26, 2021, 11:47:54 AM
Bo! Wonderful to see you post.

Apparently Zach's "posse" had him locked up for a few months in a Trap House just outside of Gary, Indiana.

I made the call. Got him let go.

Welcome Back Bo!
I thought he was locked up in a re-education camp in Xinjiang. Guess you and Zach’s posse were faster.
Bienvenido Señor BoZizzley!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on July 26, 2021, 07:50:30 PM
Welcome back, Bo.

Some relief in these quarters, all things considered.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 26, 2021, 08:12:38 PM
I pointed out some weeks back that I've seen a ton of Bones Hyland playing for VCU. He's great. But his build and game is strikingly similar to IQ. Makes NO sense to have both.


Yeah, we remember.  I dismiss that.

Interesting that Quickley is sort of an idol to Hyland.  But NaShan can run a  team.
Title: Re: Yes, she will be working the Super Bowl, too...
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 26, 2021, 08:16:48 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on July 26, 2021, 06:56:38 PM
(https://deadline.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Screen-Shot-2021-07-23-at-5.05.29-PM.png?w=681&h=383&crop=1)


absolute tippy tippy toppy of her profession! tippy tippy tippy tippy toppy! Well done....

On fucking Peacock?

heh


Carolyn Manno https://biographytribune.com/carolyn-mannos-wiki-bio-age-height-husband-net-worth/ and Cara Banks https://twitter.com/CaraBanksGC are the female host stars of these Olympic games.
Title: Poop
Post by: chipstern on July 26, 2021, 09:35:48 PM
Adrian Wojnarowski: BREAKING: Memphis is finalizing a trade to send Jonas Valanciunas and 2021 Nos. 17 and 51 picks to New Orleans for Steven Adams, Eric Bledsoe, 2021 picks Nos. 10 and 40 and a protected 2022 first-round pick via the Lakers, sources tell ESPN. – via Twitter wojespn

Poop is that Thunder offered Shai and #6 pick to Pistons for #1 pick. 

Poop is that Bledsoe may not be remaining a Grizz [if he were to be bought out and not costing 18 million of cap space, passing through waivers, for like vet minimum money, might he be of use to Thibs]. 

Jonathan Wasserman: Josh Giddey is the name I’ve heard Memphis is presumed to be targeting by moving up – via Twitter

Bobby Marks: Pelicans could have up to $36M in room but at the cost of Lonzo Ball and Josh Hart. Room goes down to $25M if they let Ball walk and bring back Hart.

Would be nice to have a shot at BALL in something other than an overpay or a sign and trade. 

WE SHALL SEE.  Still waters run deep and betoken a flurry of moves come Thursday night. 
Title: Re: Poop
Post by: Kam on July 27, 2021, 12:09:27 AM
Quote from: chipstern on July 26, 2021, 09:35:48 PM
Adrian Wojnarowski: BREAKING: Memphis is finalizing a trade to send Jonas Valanciunas and 2021 Nos. 17 and 51 picks to New Orleans for Steven Adams, Eric Bledsoe, 2021 picks Nos. 10 and 40 and a protected 2022 first-round pick via the Lakers, sources tell ESPN. – via Twitter wojespn


This is actually pretty fascinating.  These two teams selected Zion and Ja 1/2 a couple years back.  Memphis is trading the best player Valanciunas for essentially better draft picks and a future first.  They're banking on JarenJackson Jr to provide the production of the outgoing Jonas plus the draft compensation to keep the team a bubble playoff hopeful.  The Pels are trying to put together more talent around Zion.  Both teams are trying to keep their stars happy but you figure for one of these teams the gambit may fail and the seeds of that failure may be traced back to this deal in a few years time.
Title: Re: Poop
Post by: chipstern on July 27, 2021, 01:06:08 AM
Quote from: Kam on July 27, 2021, 12:09:27 AM
Quote from: chipstern on July 26, 2021, 09:35:48 PM
Adrian Wojnarowski: BREAKING: Memphis is finalizing a trade to send Jonas Valanciunas and 2021 Nos. 17 and 51 picks to New Orleans for Steven Adams, Eric Bledsoe, 2021 picks Nos. 10 and 40 and a protected 2022 first-round pick via the Lakers, sources tell ESPN. – via Twitter wojespn


This is actually pretty fascinating.  These two teams selected Zion and Ja 1/2 a couple years back.  Memphis is trading the best player Valanciunas for essentially better draft picks and a future first.  They're banking on JarenJackson Jr to provide the production of the outgoing Jonas plus the draft compensation to keep the team a bubble playoff hopeful.  The Pels are trying to put together more talent around Zion.  Both teams are trying to keep their stars happy but you figure for one of these teams the gambit may fail and the seeds of that failure may be traced back to this deal in a few years time.

Valincunas is do for a very expensive reup. 

Pelicans are trying to clear cap space this summer, as you observed, to add some vet talent around Zion. 

Good move for the Grizz. 

Jackson and Adams gives them a nice one two punch at Center and Power Forward. 

Poop is that Grizz have their eyes on the big PG/Wing Josh Giddey if they cannot move up further. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on July 27, 2021, 01:27:11 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 26, 2021, 08:12:38 PM
I pointed out some weeks back that I've seen a ton of Bones Hyland playing for VCU. He's great. But his build and game is strikingly similar to IQ. Makes NO sense to have both.


Yeah, we remember.  I dismiss that.

Interesting that Quickley is sort of an idol to Hyland.  But NaShan can run a  team.

Dude, your confidence in shit you don't know is awesome!

Your dismissal is always appreciated!
Title: Re: Yes, she will be working the Super Bowl, too...
Post by: lesterluv on July 27, 2021, 08:48:22 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 26, 2021, 08:16:48 PM
On fucking Peacock?

heh

Carolyn Manno https://biographytribune.com/carolyn-mannos-wiki-bio-age-height-husband-net-worth/ and Cara Banks https://twitter.com/CaraBanksGC are the female host stars of these Olympic games.

lol, why you keep posting about washed white people?

Maria is elevating faster than Giannis going up to catch that oop from Jrue.

“Literally, hosting the Olympics, Football Night in America, and the Super Bowl is what I dreamed of when I started in television – and this would not be possible without standing on the shoulders of all of those who came before me and made this path possible. And I plan to pay it forward.”

nice landing, doesn't get better


**** I don't do college, but given the absolutely perfect (negative) prognostication record of peckerwood uno, I know this
A) absolutely isn't happening or B) would be the worst possible thing to happen if it happened:

Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 26, 2021, 12:37:23 AM
I take

JACKSON   https://www.nbadraft.net/players/isaiah-jackson/
BUTLER     https://www.nbadraft.net/players/jared-butler/
WIESKAMP  https://www.nbadraft.net/players/joe-wieskamp/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 27, 2021, 09:37:07 AM
Quote from: elephant on July 27, 2021, 01:27:11 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 26, 2021, 08:12:38 PM
I pointed out some weeks back that I've seen a ton of Bones Hyland playing for VCU. He's great. But his build and game is strikingly similar to IQ. Makes NO sense to have both.


Yeah, we remember.  I dismiss that.

Interesting that Quickley is sort of an idol to Hyland.  But NaShan can run a  team.

Dude, your confidence in shit you don't know is awesome!

Your dismissal is always appreciated!


"Makes no sense to have both players" is usually POPPYCOCK - and is so in this instance.  We need a ball handling guard.

Work on your game, Elephant.
Title: Re: Poop
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 27, 2021, 09:42:37 AM
Quote from: Kam on July 27, 2021, 12:09:27 AM
Quote from: chipstern on July 26, 2021, 09:35:48 PM
Adrian Wojnarowski: BREAKING: Memphis is finalizing a trade to send Jonas Valanciunas and 2021 Nos. 17 and 51 picks to New Orleans for Steven Adams, Eric Bledsoe, 2021 picks Nos. 10 and 40 and a protected 2022 first-round pick via the Lakers, sources tell ESPN. – via Twitter wojespn


This is actually pretty fascinating.  These two teams selected Zion and Ja 1/2 a couple years back.  Memphis is trading the best player Valanciunas for essentially better draft picks and a future first.  They're banking on JarenJackson Jr to provide the production of the outgoing Jonas plus the draft compensation to keep the team a bubble playoff hopeful.  The Pels are trying to put together more talent around Zion.  Both teams are trying to keep their stars happy but you figure for one of these teams the gambit may fail and the seeds of that failure may be traced back to this deal in a few years time.

So you think New Orleans did this for JV's scoring punch more than the cap space?

By the way, this deal does illustrate - so take note, Knick fans - that every perceived bad contract is moveable.  Bite your tongue when we add a guy this year on a deal that seems lofty (heh - recalling the outcry on Randle's deal even a year in)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 27, 2021, 09:51:46 AM
Current Draftexpress top 100

http://www.draftexpress.com/rankings/Top-100-Prospects/printable

McBride at 27

Hyland at 32

(note - I didnt pick either in my model earlier)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 27, 2021, 10:20:08 AM
Former Kentucky forward REID TRAVIS to Knicks summer league squad

- per Calipari

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reid_Travis
Title: Poop
Post by: chipstern on July 27, 2021, 12:26:45 PM
New York will pursue Evan Fournier in free agency and are considering making a push for Spencer Dinwiddie, according to sources. Dinwiddie declined his player option for $12.3 million with Brooklyn Nets to become an unrestricted free agent. – via Keith Pompey @ The Philadelphia Inquirer

The Boston Celtics acquired Fournier from the Orlando Magic in March. He’ll become an unrestricted free agent. The French guard, who helped his native country upset the U.S. in the Olympics earlier this week, is expected to ask for around $18 million per season, while Dinwiddie’s asking price is $25 million per, sources say. – via Keith Pompey @ The Philadelphia Inquirer

Well, now...

Fournier is a 6'7" wing, who is 28, a career 80% FT shooter and .379 3-PT shooter.  Good for 3 assists a game. 

While 18 million seems a tad steep, this is today's NBA.  Better more consistent stat line than Kelly Oubre. 

I like Spencer, but not at 25 million coming off of a serious knee injury. 

Oh well. 

Give us this day our daily circle jerk. 

PS: I still hate the idea of giving up OBI, and Kevin AND our #19 pick for Collin Sexton. 
Title: Re: Poop
Post by: Kam on July 27, 2021, 12:47:22 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 27, 2021, 09:42:37 AM
Quote from: Kam on July 27, 2021, 12:09:27 AM
Quote from: chipstern on July 26, 2021, 09:35:48 PM
Adrian Wojnarowski: BREAKING: Memphis is finalizing a trade to send Jonas Valanciunas and 2021 Nos. 17 and 51 picks to New Orleans for Steven Adams, Eric Bledsoe, 2021 picks Nos. 10 and 40 and a protected 2022 first-round pick via the Lakers, sources tell ESPN. – via Twitter wojespn


This is actually pretty fascinating.  These two teams selected Zion and Ja 1/2 a couple years back.  Memphis is trading the best player Valanciunas for essentially better draft picks and a future first.  They're banking on JarenJackson Jr to provide the production of the outgoing Jonas plus the draft compensation to keep the team a bubble playoff hopeful.  The Pels are trying to put together more talent around Zion.  Both teams are trying to keep their stars happy but you figure for one of these teams the gambit may fail and the seeds of that failure may be traced back to this deal in a few years time.

So you think New Orleans did this for JV's scoring punch more than the cap space?


The only other big on their roster is Jaxson Hayes whose 2nd NBA season looked a lot like his first.  So yes, they need Jonas and his scoring this year, cap space the following year only if they can't find someone better.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 27, 2021, 02:31:57 PM
25 mil a year for Spencer Dinwiddie?

Wow.
Title: Re: Poop
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 27, 2021, 02:37:41 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 27, 2021, 12:26:45 PM
New York will pursue Evan Fournier in free agency and are considering making a push for Spencer Dinwiddie, according to sources. Dinwiddie declined his player option for $12.3 million with Brooklyn Nets to become an unrestricted free agent. – via Keith Pompey @ The Philadelphia Inquirer

The Boston Celtics acquired Fournier from the Orlando Magic in March. He’ll become an unrestricted free agent. The French guard, who helped his native country upset the U.S. in the Olympics earlier this week, is expected to ask for around $18 million per season, while Dinwiddie’s asking price is $25 million per, sources say. – via Keith Pompey @ The Philadelphia Inquirer

Well, now...

Fournier is a 6'7" wing, who is 28, a career 80% FT shooter and .379 3-PT shooter.  Good for 3 assists a game. 

While 18 million seems a tad steep, this is today's NBA.  Better more consistent stat line than Kelly Oubre. 

I like Spencer, but not at 25 million coming off of a serious knee injury. 

Oh well. 

Give us this day our daily circle jerk. 

PS: I still hate the idea of giving up OBI, and Kevin AND our #19 pick for Collin Sexton.

Agree with all of it
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 27, 2021, 04:06:50 PM
Burks over Fornier over Bullock.

Yes to Sexton for Knox though I’d like it to be Knox and Pelle or Knox and Luca plus 21 and a second rounder or a future pick.

I also would consider trading Randle for Wiggins +7 +14, depending on who is left on the board at 7.
Title: Knicks - Golden State
Post by: Kam on July 27, 2021, 05:16:18 PM
Golden State reported to have rejected a trade offer of the 19 and 21 for the 14th pick. 

I don't know which is dumber, the Knicks for making that offer or GS for rejecting it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 27, 2021, 05:59:47 PM
Kam - don't you think the Knicks had good reason?  Why cant you grasp the idea that management feels a player we really like might be there at 14 that we would MISS on if we stood pat?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 27, 2021, 06:01:50 PM
Golden State is currently deciding id the player they LOVE might make it to 14 if they pass on him at 7.  So there is your answer to what their thinking is.  NOT giving up that pick cheaply, as certainly that player is long gone by 19.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 27, 2021, 06:02:59 PM
As for volume of picks, recall last year we decided we didnt WANT our last one.

Pick 30 has been offered around.  Are we jumping through hoops to get it?  Very likely not.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 28, 2021, 03:01:16 PM
NBATV Mock Draft - Knicks about to select...

Duarte just went 15,  Murphy 16, Cooper 17, Sengun 18
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 28, 2021, 03:03:31 PM
Giddey went 10th, J Butler 14th (to G State when Pacers snatched Davion Mitchell at 13)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 28, 2021, 03:06:55 PM
KNICKS get KISPERT at 19 (selected by Andy Katz), then Isiah Jackson goes 20.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 28, 2021, 03:09:01 PM
It's KAI JONES at 21 (chosen by Jim Jackson)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 28, 2021, 03:18:06 PM
Hoping we can have some of you here in real time as picks are made.

Ziaire Williams is interesting.  But I have made my first choice (Jackson) if the mock goes as I just posted..  My second - with Butler gone - would likely be McBride but I could live with Z Williams or Hyland.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 28, 2021, 03:33:19 PM
Fournier goes quiet/takes nights off too often.
Like he's friends with Courtney Lee.

Sexton small and erratic.  There's a reason he's available.
(admittedly I barely saw him last year).

BallZo -- make a sizable offer of say $22.5M starting, dropping to $20M.  A 23 year old 3&D PG, who will up our pace and ball movement.
Pels might be going in for Lowry, for vet leadership and toughness.  Re-signing Hart for $10-$12M and letting Ball walk.

For trades, if we don't get Ball, I'd keep an eye on DeJounte, a long defensive PG coming along a bit slowly -- $15M and locked up for 3 years.   Not ideal pairing with RJ, but Barrett has started nailing 3's some.  I'd be interested in Markaanen if we hadn't drafted ObiT.  A stretch 4 who could use some Thibs toughening.

For the draft, Jared Butler sounds like a very solid player, a Ty Haliburton type, who slid because of a heart condition (he's just been cleared).
Otherwise plenty of intriguing G's such as McBride/Springer/Mann.

CBSports has Knix taking PF Kai Jones and then raw athlete Keon Johnson, all of which sounds exactly wrong.  They have Springer going in between those two and Butler going just after Keon.  Would hope Knix wouldn't pass on both Butler and Springer.

So add Ball, if possible.  Bring back Rose.  Draft an SG shooter (no SF's in our range) and a PG.  If the draftee or IQ shows promise as a backup PG, then Rose could be moved mid-season.  But the Rose/IQ bench pairing was pretty nice.  Having Ball would keep the Knick core identity, while improving the halfcourt offense.  Ball - Barrett - Bullox - Mitch.  That's a tough defensive unit.  Rose and IQ (and ObiT?) can score off the bench. 
Would just be a starting SF away from contention.  So that Bullocks and Noel would shore up our bench.

I'd also pay Noel his $10+M and bring Mitch back on his cheapo one year deal, and work out an extension.  One can always be traded later.

Otherwise, see if ObiT could be traded for Giddey ...
Then drafting Kai Jones would make sense.  And we'd have more ballhandling/passing.
Title: The Diddley Chronicles
Post by: chipstern on July 28, 2021, 04:50:36 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 28, 2021, 03:33:19 PM
Fournier goes quiet/takes nights off too often.
Like he's friends with Courtney Lee.

Sexton small and erratic.  There's a reason he's available.
(admittedly I barely saw him last year).

BallZo -- make a sizable offer of say $22.5M starting, dropping to $20M.  A 23 year old 3&D PG, who will up our pace and ball movement.
Pels might be going in for Lowry, for vet leadership and toughness.  Re-signing Hart for $10-$12M and letting Ball walk.

For trades, if we don't get Ball, I'd keep an eye on DeJounte, a long defensive PG coming along a bit slowly -- $15M and locked up for 3 years.   Not ideal pairing with RJ, but Barrett has started nailing 3's some.  I'd be interested in Markaanen if we hadn't drafted ObiT.  A stretch 4 who could use some Thibs toughening.

For the draft, Jared Butler sounds like a very solid player, a Ty Haliburton type, who slid because of a heart condition (he's just been cleared).
Otherwise plenty of intriguing G's such as McBride/Springer/Mann.

CBSports has Knix taking PF Kai Jones and then raw athlete Keon Johnson, all of which sounds exactly wrong.  They have Springer going in between those two and Butler going just after Keon.  Would hope Knix wouldn't pass on both Butler and Springer.

So add Ball, if possible.  Bring back Rose.  Draft an SG shooter (no SF's in our range) and a PG.  If the draftee or IQ shows promise as a backup PG, then Rose could be moved mid-season.  But the Rose/IQ bench pairing was pretty nice.  Having Ball would keep the Knick core identity, while improving the halfcourt offense.  Ball - Barrett - Bullox - Mitch.  That's a tough defensive unit.  Rose and IQ (and ObiT?) can score off the bench. 
Would just be a starting SF away from contention.  So that Bullocks and Noel would shore up our bench.

I'd also pay Noel his $10+M and bring Mitch back on his cheapo one year deal, and work out an extension.  One can always be traded later.

Otherwise, see if ObiT could be traded for Giddey ...
Then drafting Kai Jones would make sense.  And we'd have more ballhandling/passing.

We actually appear to be on the same page, more or less. 

Giddey could conceivably go to the Warriors at #7 or the Grizz at #10.  Or the Spurs at #12. 

Don't see him falling much below here.  I believe these teams see him as a big wing/point forward. 

We also disagree on Obi, but that is nothing new.  I am also in the minority as regards Obi and his upside.  Given how effective Taj was as a hybrid C-PF for Thibs, I see no reason why Obit could not be groomed as such, given his athleticism and comparable size. 

I can already anticipate your objections.  But the Knicks history of reflexively cashing out their high draft picks well before they have had an opportunity to blossom, remains disturbing to me.  The last Knicks #1 pick to be tendered a vet's contract re-up, was CHARLIE WARD. 

I mean, Knox + Obi PLUS both the #19 & 21 for Sexton?  Aaaaarghh.  More shiny objects, let alone one who will want a max deal next summer?  Knox AND #19?  Perhaps...but bot our #1s AND Obi.  Fuck that.  I mean, there was plenty of traction to give up on RJ after a spotty rookie year.  I realize that I am a walking cliche when I intone my mantra about PATIENCE, but, well...it is a virtue if we are going to build and sustain a competitive environ for the next 5-7 years.  I mean, Sexton is a pretty dynamic, high energy scorer, and I can recall one game against the Knicks last year where he really lit us up.  Still, more shiny objects.  Not sure he's the cat you go all in on...

Otherwise, we appear to be in sync. 

Not sure there is a consensus within the Knicks Brain Trust on Lonzo Ball, but the notion of a 6'6" PG with great court vision, who can push the pace, hits a decent percentage of treys, and who has been getting to the FT line at a more acceptable clip and who is a lock down defender?  Well...we shall see. 

It would me a miracle if Duarte fell to #19, a drop dead 6'6" shooter who is a ferocious defender.  And it would appear Troy Murphy, a 6'9" SF, has seen his stock rising as well. 

Thibs apparently really likes PG McBride.  I myself am pulling for Butler. 

Not sure where we stand with our FAs.  One has to believe that Rose would really like to come back, and that the feeling is para-mutual.  It was a good fit, and at $10 million for another year [or two], he could optimally give us 20 minutes a night without burning out while mentoring IQ and Vildoza and whomever we bring on through the draft or FA. 

Noels?  Would love to bring him back, but I suspect he is looking for something richer and longer term than we might be prepared to offer.  If he is sitting there like low hanging fruit at 19 or 21, I would expect the Knicks to give Kentucky [KENTUCKY] C-PF Isaiah Jackson. 

As for Bullock and Burks?  I suspect Thibs would really like to bring Reggie back, but he and Burks are both going to court significant offers.  Fournier for $18 million...Oubre...good players but not feeling it. Fournier can surely shoot, but for that type of money?  I would be all in for offering Ball money comparable to what Fred Van Vleet got from the Raptors, in the $20-22 million a year x 4 country. 

Finally, I suspect something tasty in the way of a shooter or a point guard or BOTH [Tre Mann?] might very well fall in our laps at #32.  This is a pretty deep draft. 

Be that as it may, will be interesting to see what Thibs-Rose-WWW-Aller-Perry-Perrin-Houston have learned from last season and their previous dip into the draft and free agency.  Or if there might even be some draft. night deals where we use our cap space to take on contracts in exchange for more draft capital.  Thursday is the draft and Monday if Free Agency, so by this time next week, we will have a clearer idea of what we will look like going into summer league. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 28, 2021, 05:56:22 PM
OK, you trade wizards -

per HOOPSSHYPE - Indiana and Charlotte may be willing to deal their pick but the price of 19 and 21 would not suffice

Lets hear some offers (please - it has to be more than just adding Knox or Frank)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 28, 2021, 09:55:32 PM
yyyepppppp


Jonathan Wasserman: Two guards I’m hearing for Knicks if they can’t trade up: Deuce McBride and Bones Hyland. Both in a small group of targets for NY, likely at 21. – via Twitter NBADraftWass
Title: The Master Plan
Post by: bodiddley on July 29, 2021, 04:06:12 AM
Sure Ball has some flaws, as does Sexton and pre-injured Dinwiddie.  Otherwise such young talent wouldn't be available.  I could see Rose being a good mentor for BallZo, helping him learn how to drive and finish more effectively and get midrange shots off.  Ball has already improved significantly as a deep threat.  If he can improve on drives and drive-and-kicks, then he'd be a pretty complete player.  Ball could also work on floaters with Quickly.  I'd bank on Ball being a worker bee and improving.

As for Knick FA's.  Reg Bull seems essential.  Was our best non-C defender.  Initially Knix had given him a 2/$21M deal which was reworked because he had a pre-existing neck injury at the time.  Offer him the MLE of circa $9M a year for 2 or 3.  If need be go over the MLE to outbid teams without space --  the same 2/$21 deal is fair, though probably not needed.  $7M-$8M might be enough.  3/$25M or somesuch.

Rose is valuable especially as a bench scorer.  And a Thibs security blanket.  Knows the system, rarely gets accused of rape anymore.

Taj really busted his ass.  Worked the boards furiously.  Probably would come back cheaply.  A leader and Thibs messenger. Taj seems to embody what the Knix are about.  Vet leadership shouldn't be underrated.  And allows us to sort out the Mitch/Noel situation at any time.

Burks?  I'd let someone else pay for contract-year Burks.  Was a dynamic scorer second half of the season.  Peak Burks?  Was also Knix worst rotation defender.  Any time opponents got a wide open shot, I'd replay and it was nearly always Burks or Randle blowing an assignment.  Also, he's been injury prone and is mostly a one-on-one scorer. 
Maybe arrange some kind of double-sign'n'trade Burks for Ball, assuming such a thing is NBA kosher.  NOPe could use the outside shooting, get something for Ball leaving, and that way we'd get Ball without worrying about PELS matching. 

IQ takes up the Burks scoring void.  Draft a shooter.  If we could get BallZo, then moving up for a Duarte/Murphy/Kispert SF would be perfect.

Otherwise re-sign Knox on a make-good contract.  Low base salary, with  incentives -- minutes, 3-pointers made, and/or FG% etc. -- and a team option or low partial guarantee on the final year.  Send Knox to Westchester if such is allowed.  Tell him to expand his game ... and dominate.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 29, 2021, 08:53:54 AM
Knox has a contract.  Frank does not.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 29, 2021, 09:09:06 AM
https://www.cbc.ca/music/remembering-jerry-granelli-the-legendary-drummer-behind-a-charlie-brown-christmas-1.6110882
Played with Vince Guaraldi, Miles Davis, Grateful Dead, etc
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 29, 2021, 10:10:37 AM
Burks/Ball idea is solid IF they match our offer first

Often you see a match, then a swap is worked out when a player is added.

First task is Knicks to figure if there is an amount that

A - they are comfortable paying
and
B - they think Pels will not match

Then we could add Ball while keeping AB.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 29, 2021, 11:57:39 AM
Are you re-upping Rose too?
Ball - Rose
RJB - IQ
and if we're drafting 19 & 21, likely we take at least one G (Butler/Springer, Mann/McBride, etc.)

Seems Rose/IQ/Burks squeezes someone's minutes, if we bring in Ball.
Then adding a rookie G on top of that.

I'd re-sign just one of Rose/Burks.  And add a cheap rookie G.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on July 29, 2021, 01:31:49 PM
Burks & Rose helped us win a whole lot of basketball games last year.
A cheap rookie pg won't help us win very many basketball games next year.
Is there a reason you don't like us to win basketball games?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 29, 2021, 01:45:30 PM
We need Burks, Rose, and Taj back if we’re going to maintain much less build on last year’s success.  Bullock and Noel, while great teammates and solid pros, are both more limited and more replaceable than the other three. They’ll also cost more due to the recency of their starting roles.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 29, 2021, 02:10:20 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on July 29, 2021, 01:31:49 PM
Burks & Rose helped us win a whole lot of basketball games last year.
A cheap rookie pg won't help us win very many basketball games next year.
Is there a reason you don't like us to win basketball games?

Save your dickishness for Kiid.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on July 29, 2021, 02:22:18 PM
I'm just axing!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 29, 2021, 02:45:45 PM
Are you re-upping Rose too?


I would think committing to Ball would have Rose going elsewhere but smarter minds than me are deciding.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 29, 2021, 03:41:01 PM
Rose reported to have suitors.
Add Ball and let Rose walk, then IQ and presumably a rook are your backup PG's.  Is that sufficient?

But I do agree, add Ball and then choose to re-sign one of Rose/Burks.
I go with Thibs fave Rose, who can also man the point.

Quote from: facilitatorn on July 29, 2021, 01:45:30 PM
Bullock and Noel, while great teammates and solid pros, are both more limited and more replaceable than the other three. They’ll also cost more due to the recency of their starting roles.

They were our two best defenders, and defense was our identity.

Both were starting.  Okay, so Mitch starts at C.  But then RJB becomes a full-time SF and Burks starts(?)  Unless some sort of trade goes down or we move up in the draft.

Both Nawlins and Bullox should only cost the MLE +/- $2M.  $8-$12M range.
Imo, Reg was a key to Knix winning.  Noel money balanced by the min Mitch makes -- that is, not much committed to a pair of quality C's.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on July 29, 2021, 03:56:03 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 29, 2021, 03:41:01 PM

Imo, Reg was a key to Knix winning. 

Interesting as not what eye tests or metrics show, defensive rating/net rating, he is so far down the list.

Decent D, but let's not overstate it, good three when he's on, good guy, pretty easy to replace, now burks/rose..you have to work a little harder to replace for sure.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 29, 2021, 04:16:15 PM
Not sure if McBride is NBA quick, if so he’d be a nice pickup.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 29, 2021, 04:43:48 PM
MSG has something they call BEST OF RJ.

Fucking.....why?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 29, 2021, 04:46:52 PM
Yeah, Bo - letting NN go isn't making a whole lot of sense to me, agreed.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 29, 2021, 04:54:43 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on July 29, 2021, 03:56:03 PM
Interesting as not what eye tests or metrics show, defensive rating/net rating, he is so far down the list.

Decent D, but let's not overstate it,

Reg Bull 7th in the league in Defensive Real +/-. (http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM)
Though there are 3 anomalies in the Top 10.
53rd in Real +/- (http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/2)
Title: Check Yourself Before You Wreck Yourself
Post by: lesterluv on July 29, 2021, 05:14:18 PM
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/advanced/?SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=DEF_RATING&dir=-1&Season=2020-21&TeamID=1610612752 (https://www.nba.com/stats/players/advanced/?SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=DEF_RATING&dir=-1&Season=2020-21&TeamID=1610612752)
Title: Re: Check Yourself Before You Wreck Yourself
Post by: lesterluv on July 29, 2021, 05:14:58 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on July 29, 2021, 05:14:18 PM
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/advanced/?SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=DEF_RATING&dir=-1&Season=2020-21&TeamID=1610612752 (https://www.nba.com/stats/players/advanced/?SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=DEF_RATING&dir=-1&Season=2020-21&TeamID=1610612752)

Eminently, Imminently Replaceable


*** good guy, not bad for team, no problem keeping him, just don't overvalue him...he's a placeholder


EYE TEST: https://twitter.com/i/status/1399086593093234689 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1399086593093234689)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 29, 2021, 05:21:28 PM
NBA rumors: Knicks, Magic have discussed Terrence Ross trade



Let's go!!!!

https://hoopshype.com/rumor/knicks-magic-have-discussed-terrence-ross-trade/
Title: Luca
Post by: chipstern on July 29, 2021, 05:28:43 PM
No
Love
For
Vildoza
Title: Wow
Post by: chipstern on July 29, 2021, 06:40:44 PM
Kuzma, Pope, Harrell and #1 pick to Wizards for Westbrook.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 29, 2021, 07:13:44 PM
http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/263513/Cavaliers-Acquire-Ricky-Rubio-From-Wolves-For-Taurean-Prince (http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/263513/Cavaliers-Acquire-Ricky-Rubio-From-Wolves-For-Taurean-Prince)

Cavs preparing for life post Sexton?
Title: Re: Wow
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 29, 2021, 07:23:36 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 29, 2021, 06:40:44 PM
Kuzma, Pope, Harrell and #1 pick to Wizards for Westbrook.

Wiz forward slot just got crowded

Would love for Knicks to make a play for Hachimura.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 29, 2021, 07:33:20 PM
I may eat these words but I have MOBLEY no higher than 4.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 29, 2021, 08:28:58 PM
Wow - Raps go away from Suggs.

Empty the roster and get this guy, NY!!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on July 29, 2021, 10:04:01 PM
Knicks picking for Charlotte?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 29, 2021, 10:09:56 PM
Knicks

Jackson

Then a guard at 32
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on July 29, 2021, 10:20:56 PM
Knicks picking for Detroit
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on July 29, 2021, 10:30:38 PM
Knix dont need any stinking draft choices!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on July 29, 2021, 10:37:14 PM
Quentin Grimes

 https://youtu.be/RWgf2GyQ0t4 (https://youtu.be/RWgf2GyQ0t4)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on July 29, 2021, 10:44:48 PM
He will be a crowd favorite at MSG.  3 and D.  Could replace Reg Bullock.
Title: BEST NIGHT EVER
Post by: lesterluv on July 29, 2021, 10:51:56 PM
I think I like it!


*** Careful, Kam, nobody can replace REG BULLOCK...NOBODY

https://www.si.com/nba/2021/07/28/quentin-grimes-nba-draft-stock (https://www.si.com/nba/2021/07/28/quentin-grimes-nba-draft-stock)

***** I think I might like it A LOT!

** Let's face it, we had two starting positions we needed to upgrade to take another step up, Bullock's and Elfrid's. This could be one — Bullock can ONLY EVER BE 3 & (decent, but don't go haywire) D, there's some intriguing upside here. Meanwhile, Elfrid's is an AUTOMATIC UPGRADE as there will be NO ELFRID


*** Plus, what do we get, a future Hornets pick? That sounds like a nice trade stuffer to use at some point.

** Plus Plus Bonus Plus: Every single peckerwood assclown prognostication about ANYTHING has been completely wrong. Despite knowing and predicting this in advance, it still satisfies! Like a good long fart after a big bowl of kasha!


** Plus Plus Bonus Plus plus:
two PG'S to finish the night!! WIN WIN WIN WIN WIN
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on July 29, 2021, 11:00:23 PM
A three point shootah.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on July 29, 2021, 11:36:17 PM
Miles Mcbride and a Euro
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 29, 2021, 11:54:08 PM
I think we stash Roko.

Grimes and McBride so far. The kids shoot and get into people. Dotson & Galloway part dux.

One pick left to lift this draft out of meh territory.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on July 30, 2021, 12:02:40 AM
This seems like a very smart use of picks.  Hardly 'meh'
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 30, 2021, 12:34:41 AM
Quote from: Kam on July 30, 2021, 12:02:40 AM
This seems like a very smart use of picks.  Hardly 'meh'

I agree.

We got two scrotum eating hard nosed defenders who are both ÷40% 3 point shooters.

Paying forward our '#19 for 2022 lottery protected Charlotte and converting the #21 into a #25 and a 2022 #2 yielded a targetted player in Grimes, a 3&D with a big wingspan to supplement or supplant Bullock/Burks.

And we converted the #32 into an intriguing Lithuanian PG overseas stash at #34 and Thibs' hard nosed  PG target Miles McBride at #36.

Seemed  bizarre at first, but clearly the Knicks projected Primer Targets [Duarte, Kispert, Murphy] were out of reach, so they prioritized their secondary picks, whom.Thibs CLEARLY targeted for his priorities moving forward: THREE POINT SHOOTING and DEFENSE, a 3&D wing and a PG.

So, MEH?

Figuring we reup Rose, teaming him with McBride, Vildoza and Quickley, we have PG/Combos who can shoot and facilitate, play D...likewise, RJ and Quentin give us some foundational Wings, assuming we do not overpay for Reggie and Alec.  Perhaps allows us money to reup Rose, Mitchell and Nerlens.

We save guaranteed rookie scale money by converting #19 & 21 to.#25, which could come in handy for free agency come Monday.

Might not satisfy one's desire for shiny objects, Brother Facil, but a pretty nicely calculated haul.

And we still have Obi and Kevin, to.develop or horse trade.

So.MEH?

MORE LIKE Yeah.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on July 30, 2021, 12:43:25 AM
Jericho Sims

https://youtu.be/p56gpCoF114 (https://youtu.be/p56gpCoF114)
Title: #58
Post by: chipstern on July 30, 2021, 12:47:42 AM
JERICHO SIMS

An athletic 6'10" big.

And we are one of only four teams with big time cap space come free agency, and I would expect us to explore sign and trades and squirrel away as much of our cap space as possible for our own FAs in 2021 and some more tasty talent in 2022. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 30, 2021, 12:47:47 AM
We got the best full sized athlete in the draft at 58, in Jericho Sims. Two perimeter guys and a banger who hit the prerequisites for their spots. Draft saved & very nearly aced.

I’m still assuming Roko stays overseas and that we sign the rest.

Mitch Pelle Sims
Randle Obi
RJ Knox
Quickley Grimes
Luca McBride

Thats 5 4 slots and about 46 million to play with not counting exceptions.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on July 30, 2021, 12:49:52 AM
Showing our hand a little regarding Noel and Bullock by drafting their replacements.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 30, 2021, 01:12:45 AM
I’d like to add Makur Maker or that Belgian kid as UDFAs.
Title: Re: Check Yourself Before You Wreck Yourself
Post by: bodiddley on July 30, 2021, 01:26:42 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on July 29, 2021, 05:14:58 PM
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/advanced/?SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=DEF_RATING&dir=-1&Season=2020-21&TeamID=1610612752 (https://www.nba.com/stats/players/advanced/?SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=DEF_RATING&dir=-1&Season=2020-21&TeamID=1610612752)
Not sure what that metric is doing, but doubt anyone thinks Rose, IQ, Burks  Knox, Obi were better defensively than Bullocks, RJB, Noel, Elf ... as it has there.

Quote
Eminently, Imminently Replaceable
*** good guy, not bad for team, no problem keeping him, just don't overvalue him...he's a placeholder

I've been saying we'd be better with Reg Bull on the bench unit.  But not sure how easy it is to replace him.  Knix have been searching for a starting 3&D SF/wing forever.  Lots of Courtly/Afflalos/Derrick Williams/Lance Thomas types have rolled through.  Reg Bullocks the best we've had.
I'd like a better starting 3&D SF.  But until we can get one, Bullox is valuable for NYK.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 30, 2021, 02:27:35 AM
25  Quentin Grimes  6'5" SG
34  Rokas Jokubaitis - overseas stashed shooter
36  Miles McBride   6'2" PG
58  Jericho Sims  6'10" C

Interesting.  To be frank, Grimes I don't know. 
We passed on Springer, Cam Thomas with multiple nothankyou's to Butler who dropped all the way to #40.  Great addition for Utah.

I like the McBride pickup.  Replaces Elf.

With the C glut in the league and on the Knix, Sims likely destined to be a 2-way player in Westchester.
Mitch - Taj - Pelle
Mitch - Noel - Pelle
I expect Taj to return on a small contract.  $3M is hard to make when NBA retired.  I wouldn't go to war with just Mitch - Pelle - Sims.  Especially since our two PF's can't man the middle.  And Mitch has been somewhat brittle.

Without moving up, Knix weren't able to get any projected starters.  So still need a starting PG and SF upgrade.
Maybe use Noel and Burks in my fantasy trade for Ball.
That's two solid role players for NOPe.
Problem is TOR didn't take Suggs, so Lowry more likely to stay put.
Leaving Ball maybe less available.
Title: Re: Check Yourself Before You Wreck Yourself
Post by: chipstern on July 30, 2021, 02:38:43 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 30, 2021, 01:26:42 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on July 29, 2021, 05:14:58 PM
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/advanced/?SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=DEF_RATING&dir=-1&Season=2020-21&TeamID=1610612752 (https://www.nba.com/stats/players/advanced/?SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=DEF_RATING&dir=-1&Season=2020-21&TeamID=1610612752)
Not sure what that metric is doing, but doubt anyone thinks Rose, IQ, Burks  Knox, Obi were better defensively than Bullocks, RJB, Noel, Elf ... as it has there.

Quote
Eminently, Imminently Replaceable
*** good guy, not bad for team, no problem keeping him, just don't overvalue him...he's a placeholder

I've been saying we'd be better with Reg Bull on the bench unit.  But not sure how easy it is to replace him.  Knix have been searching for a starting 3&D SF/wing forever.  Lots of Courtly/Afflalos/Derrick Williams/Lance Thomas types have rolled through.  Reg Bullocks the best we've had.
I'd like a better starting 3&D SF.  But until we can get one, Bullox is valuable for NYK.

I agree

Would Iike to retain Reggie.

Thibs loves him.

In an ideal 🌎

He would come off the bench to.key a second unit.

Knicks picks anticipate possibility that minimally, Reggie and Nerlens could be moving on.  Rose, too.  Hope not, because Rose at 10,000,000 x 2 would be a great mentor sixth man for Quickley, Vildoza and McBride.

Payton is toast.  Frank might have a second act if he would reup.for Peyton 💰

Thibs lobbied hard for Grimes and especially McBride.

I was pulling for Butler, who went at #40 to the Pelicans.

This draft had Thibs and Aller written all over it.

Wonder if we pursue a 3&D in free agency.

Not sure Fournier is IT.  Am pretty sure Oubre is NOT.

We shall see.

PS: Fascinated by Jericho at at #58.  Sumner league should be interesting. 
Title: Jared Butler
Post by: chipstern on July 30, 2021, 02:45:49 AM
I thought he ended up a Pelican.

Now I read he's on Utah.

Good landing spot.

Thibs preferred McBride.

We'll know soon enough.
Title: Re: Check Yourself Before You Wreck Yourself
Post by: lesterluv on July 30, 2021, 10:12:06 AM
Quote

Not sure what that metric is doing.....

Can't help you if you don't understand advanced statistics.

Luckily, the EYE TEST suffices quite well!

*** the decades-long search to find a Reggie Bullock lmao


Nice player, love the guy, belongs on the bench, 10 mins max, you'll never be great if he's starting, do not overpay under ANY CIRCUMSTANCE, looks like we picked up a guy who's got a shot to eventually replace him, somebody has to if we're gonna ELEVATE, GREAT!

Bottom line: Reg is a very LIMITED player. I love the stuff he does well. But there is so much stuff HE CANNOT DO AT ALL. So dangerous to overvalue. Now this guy - if he can take his stuff to next level and continue to evolve, different story, we'll see: https://youtu.be/nf609L6NmvU (https://youtu.be/nf609L6NmvU)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on July 30, 2021, 01:32:22 PM
I hope to not see Franky, KK, and Obi ever again in blue and orange.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on July 30, 2021, 01:45:59 PM
Funny, I am really looking forward to seeing more Obi next year.
*** though he may be better served developing with a different team, if he does end up as part of a trade package

I don't expect to see Franky again, but am fine with it if I do.

Knox? He's been offending my eyes for years, but last season not so much. Happy to see him again if he returns.
Title: Re: Jared Butler
Post by: facilitatorn on July 30, 2021, 02:13:53 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 30, 2021, 02:45:49 AM
I thought he ended up a Pelican.

Now I read he's on Utah.

Good landing spot.

Thibs preferred McBride.

We'll know soon enough.

Butler had a red flag on each knee. It’s why he dropped. If he stays healthy he can make teams regret passing on him.

I’m very glad Bryant and Payne both decided to stay on staff.

I like that we’re going into free agency with a 1A & 1B in the fold with Randle and Barrett and at least a playable stopgap at all the other positions.

To a guard or wing free agents, the Knicks should look pretty attractive.
Title: Written In Stone Or Not
Post by: chipstern on July 30, 2021, 03:00:58 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on July 30, 2021, 01:45:59 PM
Funny, I am really looking forward to seeing more Obi next year.
*** though he may be better served developing with a different team, if he does end up as part of a trade package

I don't expect to see Franky again, but am fine with it if I do.

Knox? He's been offending my eyes for years, but last season not so much. Happy to see him again if he returns.

Frank is due a qualifying offer from the Knicks of $8.2

Not sure how it works, but is it possible we could tender him an extension for less money?  Apparently, from poop on the scoop, consensus amongst Knicks brass is not of a piece with Luee's OFF WITH THEIR HEADS edict. 

Whether they got significant minutes or not, considerable development work was invest in Frank, Kevin and Obi last year, and I do not believe it is a given that they are naught but trade bait.  ALL SHOWED IMPROVEMENT.  How they stack up in future plans?  We will have a better idea come next week. 
Title: Miras
Post by: chipstern on July 30, 2021, 03:47:48 PM
Communicate intermittently with our Elba Alumni. 

I usually touch bases with him on  draft night, as his passion burns like lava from Vesuvius, and inevitably, the Knicks find some way to utterly confound him. 

When the Knicks were offloading their first rounders, he began to melt down, and I bore witness, unable to decipher the method in Leon's madness, or for that matter, to state with any certainty that it wasn't sheer madness. 

Discovering that the Charlotte #1 pick for 2022 we received back for our #19 was Top 18 protected, I kept waiting for the other shoe to drop.  As in, there must be a player involved, or another pick [much as a 2024 #2 pick from the Clippers, received again from Detroit in the Blake Griffin trade], but no. 

It wasn't until we picked Quentin Grimes at #25 [in lieu of our #21] that I exhaled a little, though I remained confounded by why the exchange with the Hornets was so seemingly one sided. 

Still, it appeared as though, since Grimes had been reported to be very much on THIBS' radar, that McBride was similarly in our sites.  When the #32 was traded, we both kind of shook our heads. 

"LOL...Leon Rose is some mad stupid scientist.  I'm so f****** confused."   
Title: Knicks Picks
Post by: chipstern on July 30, 2021, 04:00:22 PM
QUENTIN GRIMES

POSITION: G
HEIGHT/WEIGHT: 6-5 / 205 lbs
SCHOOL/CLUB Houston
COUNTRY: USA
STATUS: Junior
BIRTHDAY: 05/08/2000


STRENGTHS
• Quality shooter with a strong frame and solid feel.
• Has outstanding form and mechanics on his jumper.
• Plays with very good pace; knows how to get open.
• Solid vision and playmaking skills.

PERSONAL
• 2019-20 AAC All-Academic Team selection.
• Father, Marshall, played college basketball at Santa Clara and Louisiana.
• Brother, Tyler Myers, has played 12 seasons in the NHL.

Grimes made an AAC-high 3.33 three-pointers per game in 2020-21, eighth most in NCAA Division I


ROKAS JOKUBAITIS


POSITION: G
HEIGHT/WEIGHT: 6-4 /194 lbs
SCHOOL/CLUB: Zalgiris Kaunas (Lithuania)
COUNTRY: Lithuania
STATUS: International
BIRTHDAY: 11/19/2000

STRENGTHS
• Combo guard with superior offensive craft.
• Capable long- and mid-range shooter.
• Has outstanding court vision; makes good reads.
• Very effective in pick-and-roll situations.

PERSONAL
First gained media attention in the U.S. after scoring 31 points for Zalgiris 2 in LaMelo Ball’s pro debut with Vytautas Prienu in Lithuania on Jan. 9, 2018.


MILES MCBRIDE

POSITION: G
HEIGHT/WEIGHT: 6-2 /200 lbs
SCHOOL/CLUB: West Virginia
COUNTRY: USA
STATUS: Sophomore
BIRTHDAY: 09/08/2000

STRENGTHS
• Sturdy combo guard with excellent defensive potential
• Elite on-ball defender with a ball-hawk mentality
• Versatile scorer who can create his own shot
• Good touch on mid-range jumper; has three-point range.

PERSONAL
• 2020-21 Academic All-Big 12 Second Team choice
• 2019-20 Academic All-Big 12 Rookie Team pick
• Standout high school quarterback
• High school basketball teammate of the Pelicans’ Jaxson Hayes
• Father, Walt, played basketball at Xavier
• Mother, Kim, played tennis at Ohio State


JERICHO SIMS

POSITION: C
HEIGHT/WEIGHT: 6-10/245 lbs
SCHOOL/CLUB: Texas
COUNTRY:USA
STATUS: Senior
BIRTHDAY: 10/20/1998

STRENGTHS
• Outstanding combination of size and athleticism.
• Aggressive and bouncy around the rim.
• Solid instincts and timing as a rim protector.
• Can switch and guard on the perimeter.

PERSONAL
• Majored in African & African Diaspora Studies with a minor in Anthropology at Texas.
• Father, Charles, played basketball at the University of Minnesota.
• Has five older brothers, two of whom played Division I college basketball and one of whom played D-1 college football.

Sims’ 44.5-inch max vertical jump at the 2021 NBA Draft Combine tied for the third-highest jump in event history.
Title: Re: Miras
Post by: Kam on July 30, 2021, 04:13:13 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 30, 2021, 03:47:48 PM
Communicate intermittently with our Elba Alumni. 

I usually touch bases with him on  draft night, as his passion burns like lava from Vesuvius, and inevitably, the Knicks find some way to utterly confound him. 

When the Knicks were offloading their first rounders, he began to melt down, and I bore witness, unable to decipher the method in Leon's madness, or for that matter, to state with any certainty that it wasn't sheer madness. 

Discovering that the Charlotte #1 pick for 2022 we received back for our #19 was Top 18 protected, I kept waiting for the other shoe to drop.  As in, there must be a player involved, or another pick [much as a 2024 #2 pick from the Clippers, received again from Detroit in the Blake Griffin trade], but no. 

It wasn't until we picked Quentin Grimes at #25 [in lieu of our #21] that I exhaled a little, though I remained confounded by why the exchange with the Hornets was so seemingly one sided. 

Still, it appeared as though, since Grimes had been reported to be very much on THIBS' radar, that McBride was similarly in our sites.  When the #32 was traded, we both kind of shook our heads. 

"LOL...Leon Rose is some mad stupid scientist.  I'm so f****** confused."

The Knicks tried like hell to move up in the draft using the 19 and the 21.  Finding no takers they went to plan B and identified Grimes and McBride and correctly assessed where those two would be slotted in the draft.  It would have been a less than optimal use of the 19 and the 21 to draft Grimes and McBride.  So rather than  "reach" at 19 for a guy they could get much later they traded the pick for something roughly equivalent next year with a 3 year window to use that asset for another deal rather than watch their 3 minute window on that asset close when they were on the clock.   That's nothing if not genius if you ask me.  We created another first round pick out of thin air.

Similar story with the 21 pick... trade back for more assets and still get McBride.  So 21 became 25 and a future #2.   25 became Grimes (the guy they didn't reach for at 19) and they have a high 2nd round pick in the future from Detroit.  Speaking of Detroit the 32 pick was originally their selection, and with the 32 they traded back and got Rokas AND McBride.

So leaving Sims aside the Knicks went into the draft with three high picks 19,21,32 and they left with their two Plan B targets as well as a future Charlotte first, Detroit 2nd, and a stashed Rokas to add to their list of trade assets.  Simply put, they changed 3 assets into 2 players and 3 assets.

I can understand being confused when the picks were happening and the Knicks kept trading back, but I cannot understand any anger or frustration.  We saw what the braintrust was able to do last year in the draft trading back and nabbing IQ at 25.   The benefit of the doubt was in play.   
Title: Re: Miras
Post by: chipstern on July 30, 2021, 04:31:00 PM
Quote from: Kam on July 30, 2021, 04:13:13 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 30, 2021, 03:47:48 PM
Communicate intermittently with our Elba Alumni. 

I usually touch bases with him on  draft night, as his passion burns like lava from Vesuvius, and inevitably, the Knicks find some way to utterly confound him. 

When the Knicks were offloading their first rounders, he began to melt down, and I bore witness, unable to decipher the method in Leon's madness, or for that matter, to state with any certainty that it wasn't sheer madness. 

Discovering that the Charlotte #1 pick for 2022 we received back for our #19 was Top 18 protected, I kept waiting for the other shoe to drop.  As in, there must be a player involved, or another pick [much as a 2024 #2 pick from the Clippers, received again from Detroit in the Blake Griffin trade], but no. 

It wasn't until we picked Quentin Grimes at #25 [in lieu of our #21] that I exhaled a little, though I remained confounded by why the exchange with the Hornets was so seemingly one sided. 

Still, it appeared as though, since Grimes had been reported to be very much on THIBS' radar, that McBride was similarly in our sites.  When the #32 was traded, we both kind of shook our heads. 

"LOL...Leon Rose is some mad stupid scientist.  I'm so f****** confused."

The Knicks tried like hell to move up in the draft using the 19 and the 21.  Finding no takers they went to plan B and identified Grimes and McBride and correctly assessed where those two would be slotted in the draft.  It would have been a less than optimal use of the 19 and the 21 to draft Grimes and McBride.  So rather than  "reach" at 19 for a guy they could get much later they traded the pick for something roughly equivalent next year with a 3 year window to use that asset for another deal rather than watch their 3 minute window on that asset close when they were on the clock.   That's nothing if not genius if you ask me.  We created another first round pick out of thin air.

Similar story with the 21 pick... trade back for more assets and still get McBride.  So 21 became 25 and a future #2.   25 became Grimes (the guy they didn't reach for at 19) and they have a high 2nd round pick in the future from Detroit.  Speaking of Detroit the 32 pick was originally their selection, and with the 32 they traded back and got Rokas AND McBride.

So leaving Sims aside the Knicks went into the draft with three high picks 19,21,32 and they left with their two Plan B targets as well as a future Charlotte first, Detroit 2nd, and a stashed Rokas to add to their list of trade assets.  Simply put, they changed 3 assets into 2 players and 3 assets.

I can understand being confused when the picks were happening and the Knicks kept trading back, but I cannot understand any anger or frustration.  We saw what the braintrust was able to do last year in the draft trading back and nabbing IQ at 25.   The benefit of the doubt was in play.

I agree KAM. 

Miras is very emotional, and it took a little while for the sense of things to reveal itself. 

Yes, having been shut out of the TOP TIER TARGETS, Rose zeroed in on the SECOND TIER.  It was well played. 

Charlotte obviously played hard ball.  Top 18 as opposed to Top 14?  There is a likelihood they WILL make the playoffs if everyone is healthy.  And with Bouknight joining the back court rotation of Ball, Rozier, Graham and Monk, they have a good shot at the playoffs. 

As for Detroit's #2 in 2024?  I would not count on that being too tasty.  They had a great draft last year and THIS YEAR. 

AS FOR OUR KNICKS? [Berman's Take]

The protection on Charlotte’s 2022 first-round pick they gained Thursday is pretty severe. It’s protected up to 18 in 2022 — which means there’s a likely chance it won’t be conveyed. In 2023, it’s protected until 16. It’s protected up to 14 in 2024 and 2025. So the Knicks will need the Hornets to make the playoffs soon or they’ll be owed two second-round picks in 2026.

The one current benefit of giving up 19 for the future was saving $2.7 million in salary-cap space. The Knicks should have about $50 million in space as they seek a starting point guard.

The likelihood is the Knicks will have six first-rounders and nine second-rounders over the next four drafts.
Title: Meanwhile...Three & BoD
Post by: chipstern on July 30, 2021, 04:40:03 PM
Hawks getting Sharife Cooper at #48 was a gift from the basketball Gods. 

He is a poor man's/mini-me jet ski reflection of Trae.  He is going to be groomed to be Trae Bien's understudy.

AND AS PER BO-D...

Hawks pick at #20, 6'9" Jalen Johnson of Duke, might just be the 3&[Bo]D that our resident handicapper cherishes.  We shall see. 

Hawks are going to be very tough next season.  They have really done well for themselves in remaining patient and buillding through the draft, while adding key vet pieces in Capella, Sweet Lou, Gallo and Bogdonavich through trades and FA. 

Leon should only do so well. 
Title: Sims X Two
Post by: chipstern on July 30, 2021, 04:57:50 PM
Was glad to see that Facil had some experience of and enthusiasm FOR our #58 pick, JERICHO SIMS. 

There was a very funny clip Kendrick Perkins played of JERICHO dunking in a game and getting up so high that his eyebrow knocked up against the rim.  His hops are serious. 

As for our eternal pursuit of the 3&D, Chip Stern's JARED HARPER MEMORIAL REACH for 2021 is....

AAMIR SIMS, an unrelated, undrafted forward out of Clemson.

The 6'8" two-time All-ACC honoree averaged double figures his junior and senior years, seasons he also made 40% of his 3-pointers. Sims did some of everything, becoming only the fourth Tiger ever with at least “1,000 points, 600 rebounds, 150 assists, 75 steals and 75 blocks in a career — joining Trevor Booker, Horace Grant and Larry Nance.” Those three combined to play 38 years in the NBA. Could Sims turn out to be a long-running big man, too? Maybe. You can see someone who might be able to do some damage as a combo forward off the bench — strong enough to attack non-jumbo 3s, with the speed and range to exploit certain slower 4s.
Title: Re: Miras
Post by: Kam on July 30, 2021, 05:03:50 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 30, 2021, 04:31:00 PM
Quote from: Kam on July 30, 2021, 04:13:13 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 30, 2021, 03:47:48 PM
Communicate intermittently with our Elba Alumni. 

I usually touch bases with him on  draft night, as his passion burns like lava from Vesuvius, and inevitably, the Knicks find some way to utterly confound him. 

When the Knicks were offloading their first rounders, he began to melt down, and I bore witness, unable to decipher the method in Leon's madness, or for that matter, to state with any certainty that it wasn't sheer madness. 

Discovering that the Charlotte #1 pick for 2022 we received back for our #19 was Top 18 protected, I kept waiting for the other shoe to drop.  As in, there must be a player involved, or another pick [much as a 2024 #2 pick from the Clippers, received again from Detroit in the Blake Griffin trade], but no. 

It wasn't until we picked Quentin Grimes at #25 [in lieu of our #21] that I exhaled a little, though I remained confounded by why the exchange with the Hornets was so seemingly one sided. 

Still, it appeared as though, since Grimes had been reported to be very much on THIBS' radar, that McBride was similarly in our sites.  When the #32 was traded, we both kind of shook our heads. 

"LOL...Leon Rose is some mad stupid scientist.  I'm so f****** confused."

The Knicks tried like hell to move up in the draft using the 19 and the 21.  Finding no takers they went to plan B and identified Grimes and McBride and correctly assessed where those two would be slotted in the draft.  It would have been a less than optimal use of the 19 and the 21 to draft Grimes and McBride.  So rather than  "reach" at 19 for a guy they could get much later they traded the pick for something roughly equivalent next year with a 3 year window to use that asset for another deal rather than watch their 3 minute window on that asset close when they were on the clock.   That's nothing if not genius if you ask me.  We created another first round pick out of thin air.

Similar story with the 21 pick... trade back for more assets and still get McBride.  So 21 became 25 and a future #2.   25 became Grimes (the guy they didn't reach for at 19) and they have a high 2nd round pick in the future from Detroit.  Speaking of Detroit the 32 pick was originally their selection, and with the 32 they traded back and got Rokas AND McBride.

So leaving Sims aside the Knicks went into the draft with three high picks 19,21,32 and they left with their two Plan B targets as well as a future Charlotte first, Detroit 2nd, and a stashed Rokas to add to their list of trade assets.  Simply put, they changed 3 assets into 2 players and 3 assets.

I can understand being confused when the picks were happening and the Knicks kept trading back, but I cannot understand any anger or frustration.  We saw what the braintrust was able to do last year in the draft trading back and nabbing IQ at 25.   The benefit of the doubt was in play.

I agree KAM. 

Miras is very emotional, and it took a little while for the sense of things to reveal itself. 

Yes, having been shut out of the TOP TIER TARGETS, Rose zeroed in on the SECOND TIER.  It was well played. 

Charlotte obviously played hard ball.  Top 18 as opposed to Top 14?  There is a likelihood they WILL make the playoffs if everyone is healthy.  And with Bouknight joining the back court rotation of Ball, Rozier, Graham and Monk, they have a good shot at the playoffs. 

As for Detroit's #2 in 2024?  I would not count on that being too tasty.  They had a great draft last year and THIS YEAR. 

AS FOR OUR KNICKS? [Berman's Take]

The protection on Charlotte’s 2022 first-round pick they gained Thursday is pretty severe. It’s protected up to 18 in 2022 — which means there’s a likely chance it won’t be conveyed. In 2023, it’s protected until 16. It’s protected up to 14 in 2024 and 2025. So the Knicks will need the Hornets to make the playoffs soon or they’ll be owed two second-round picks in 2026.

The one current benefit of giving up 19 for the future was saving $2.7 million in salary-cap space. The Knicks should have about $50 million in space as they seek a starting point guard.

The likelihood is the Knicks will have six first-rounders and nine second-rounders over the next four drafts.

Here is the other benefit of the trade for the Knicks ... Charlotte can't trade a First until 2027.   So if over the next 3 or 4 years they want to trade a first they'll have to come to the Knicks first and offer the Knicks something just to remove the protections.   

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E7kHVdQXMAUwGv8?format=jpg&name=medium)
Title: MONDAY MONDAY
Post by: chipstern on July 30, 2021, 05:14:25 PM
So...

What is the consensus?

Wish Lists, notwithstanding....

Who MIGHT the Knicks be targeting among their own free agents, and free agents coming on to the market in an admittedly thin class. 

NOTE: No Damian Lillard.  No Bradley Beal.  No Kawhi Leonard. 

MY SENSE OF THINGS: Again, the draft [and the free agent signings of Luka Vildoza and Aamir Sims] was revealing as to how the Knicks may or may not proceed in looking to reup, sign and trade or wave goodbye to Rose, Bullock, Burks and Noel.  Or how the Knicks move forward with their puppies, IQ, Knox and Toppin, whether we view them as developmental pieces or as trade assets.  Given how Rose and Aller and Perry proceeded through the draft, I'm wondering if they might not be laying in wait through free agency to take advantage of bargains in buyouts, salary dumps, sign and trades. 

I do not see any clear cut targets.  I think Sexton was a media blogosphere pipe dream.  I'm not sure there is a consensus on Lonzo Ball though he would be a target if I had my druthers.  Fournier or Oubre for 15-20 million?  Am I missing anything.  I do not see any clear cut targets.  Again, I think Leon is positioned to be opportunistic, which precludes the likes of Paul or Conley [who are far far more likely to receive significant offers from their hometown teams].  Scroheder?  Dimiwiddie?  Will be looking for Van Vleet money. 

As per the Rose-Aller-Perry close to the vest, reveal nothing approach, their show card reveals nothing of the cards they are holding. 

That salary cap money we gleaned from the Porzingis Trade is being held on to like the healing waters of Lourdes.  Derrick Rose.  Julius Randle.  Mitchell Robinson.  At the head of the cafeteria lunch line. 
Title: Re: MONDAY MONDAY
Post by: Kam on July 30, 2021, 05:37:41 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 30, 2021, 05:14:25 PM
Given how Rose and Aller and Perry proceeded through the draft, I'm wondering if they might not be laying in wait through free agency to take advantage of bargains in buyouts, salary dumps, sign and trades.  That salary cap money we gleaned from the Porzingis Trade is being held on to like the healing waters of Lourdes.

We are one of only a few teams with projected capspace with cap holds renounced if team salary was below the cap maximum. Assumes veteran club options declined and non-guaranteed players released.

1   New York Knicks   $49,845,942   
2   San Antonio Spurs   $48,023,002   
3   Dallas Mavericks   $34,330,552   
4   Oklahoma City       $30,049,470   
5   Memphis Grizzlies   $22,774,192   
6   Toronto Raptors      $22,144,599   
7   Miami Heat           $20,483,041   

 With how we "moneyballed" the handling of the draft, getting players at lower positions to open up EVEN MORE capspace  I think the Knicks will continue their pennywise ways and use the cap space not necessarily to sign one big fish, but to facilitate trades for first round picks and take on salary for guys they'll cut.  This team has enough moolah to do both really.  I think they've identified that if you want to get a Star player you have to have the ammo to trade for one. 

Furthermore for the first time in ages the Knicks do not owe another team any draft picks.  We may not have an OKC-sized treasure chest when it comes to picks but we will take a backseat to no other franchise on that front, while maintaining the NEW YORK marquee to attract free agents.   So whether it is free agency, trade bait, or using picks on players the Knicks are in good shape on all three roster building front.

This is a new day my friends.  A new dawn. 

 
Title: DeRozan?
Post by: chipstern on July 30, 2021, 06:28:20 PM
Free Agency. 

I am not convinced that we are going to go ALL IN on Shiny Objects in free agency. 

We still have to reup Derrick, Julius and Mitchell. 

ME?  I would target LONZO, but I am not convinced there is a consensus among Knicks coaches and brain trust. 

Fournier?  Okay, but at 18-20 million?  Is he our 3&D savior.  He can shoot for sure, but defend? 

Oubre?  No thanks.  I believe the Knicks go into free agency looking to be opportunistic rather than spending like a drunken sailor.  We should [MY TAKE], accrue trades by deploying our cap space, wait on buyouts and waiver wire bargains, and free agents overlooked in the initial feeding frenzy. 

Free Agency?  Let's start with DERRICK ROSE. 

Our draft picks all appear penciled in to replace Bullock, Burks and Noel. 

If this draft night did not reveal that Leon Rose is not your father's Oldsmobile, nothing will.  I do not expect fireworks, but a prudent opportunistic approach--THE ROAD LESS TRAVELLED.  ME: I would be intrigued by DeMar DeRozan if the price is right.  IF. 

Cannot shoot the 3 worth a damn, but a crafty scoring machine in the midrange and off the dribble, and would be both a real option at the 2 AND the 3, but a great mentor for RJ in terms of his evolution, and clearing space for JR. 

I mean, IF THE PRICE IS RIGHT.  Will be 32 on August 2.

Terrible 3 point shooter. 

But last season, playing both shooting guard, small forward AND power forward, for 33.7 mpg, he went to the FT line 7.2 times a game, converting at a .880% clip, which would be great for helping THIBS to control tempo. 

DeMar averaged 21.6 ppg, 4.2 boards, and [AND] 6.9 assists. 

The implications for freeing up Julius and RJ and Mitchell and Derrick are immense. 

DeMar will be 32 on August 7. 

He has been remarkably durable throughout his career.  He is a great TEAM player, in the old school style.  His omnipresent threat in the midrange and going to the rack, would free up three point shooters, and give Julius way more room to go against single coverage or kick out. 

If I [ME] was looking at Evan Fournier for 18 million a year, or Reggie and Alec for a combined 20 million, or a crafty veteran, a proven winner such as DeMar for 2 x 20 [doubt he will be giving that pussy away], it would be a gimme for the Chipster, as opposed to giving Colin Sexton $160 million. 

https://fadeawayworld.net/.image/t_share/MTgwMzI0NjA5OTQ0OTIxMjM4/demar-derozan.jpg

The Lakers' Trade for WESTBROOK removed them as a target for DeMar, an LA native. 

The Clippers?  No cap space.

DeMar earned 27 million in the last year of his contract.

(https://fadeawayworld.net/.image/t_share/MTgwMzI0NjA5OTQ0OTIxMjM4/demar-derozan.jpg)

We shall see.

PS: Not suggesting that we should target them, but the Kings thought they were sending Buddy Hield to the Lakers, and so they drafted Davion Mitchell.  OOOOPS.  Now they have a very crowded back court with Fox, Haliburton and Mitchell.  They are also looking to unload Marvin Bagley, who has a million dollars worth of talent and physical gifts, but a ten cent head, and is injury prone to boot.  Kings picked him ahead of Doncic.  Again, just saying.  THIBS would slit his wrists, pausing only to slit Marvin's. 
Title: This Just In
Post by: chipstern on July 30, 2021, 06:39:17 PM
Hawks just copped Tristan Thompson from he Celtics for Kris Dunn, Bruno Hernando and a 2023 #2 pick. 

Great pickup for the Hawks. 

Fuck me. 
Title: McBride & Prejudice [From NY Daily News]
Post by: chipstern on July 30, 2021, 06:56:59 PM
Last season the Knicks were Tom Thibodeau’s creation on defense with a group of committed overachievers. Not a single All-Defense selection among them, but together they accumulated a top-4 rating in defensive efficiency.

Still, one statistic contradicted their efforts. The Knicks, despite holding opponents to a league-low 104.7 points per game, were tied for 30th in charges taken. Dead last. Just 16 combined in 72 games.


And it just so happens they drafted a point guard eager to improve that number, ala Kyle Lowry.

“I know (Lowry) takes charges. I’m pretty sure he’s led the league in charges before and I’m a guy that’s willing to do anything to win,” Miles McBride said on Friday, the day after he was drafted by the Knicks. “And I think winning plays is taking charges so that’s something I can definitely get behind.”

To be clear, McBride isn’t Lowry. It would be silly and unfair to project a six-time All-Star career onto a second-round pick. This is more about style and stature.

But McBride also isn’t a typical second rounder. The 20-year-old fell further than most anticipated in the draft – dropping to the Knicks at 36th – and carries a confidence befitting a top prospect. There’s potential for immediate impact, depending on how the Knicks’ roster shakes out after free agency.

McBride, who 15.9 points and two steals last season as a sophomore at West Virginia, knows how to win Thibodeau’s heart.

“Definitely think my defense is going to get me on the floor the fastest,” McBride said. “Obviously there are facets of my offensive game that can continue to improve. I think my offensive game is one of the best in the draft and as a rookie but obviously it’s a whole other level coming into the NBA. So I think defense and playing with instincts is going to help me the most.”

If Immanuel Quickly and Luca Vildoza are destined for off-guard as most predict, the Knicks currently have zero point guards under contract for next season. That’ll undoubtedly change in the coming weeks, with New York owning the most cap space in the NBA and Collin Sexton on the trade market.

But there’s zero chance the Knicks re-sign last season’s starter, Elfrid Payton, whose playoff role devolved into bench warmer after his confidence deteriorated. Trae Young detonated Thibodeau’s vaunted defense in the first round and left the Knicks with more questions about their point guard problem.

McBride wants to be an answer.

“Trae is a three-level scorer. He can shoot deep range balls and coming off the pick and roll he’s hard to stay attached,” McBride said. “So just being able to put my skills up against his, I’m looking forward to that challenge.”

The first step for McBride is Summer League next month in Vegas, where he’ll join a roster with Quickley, Vildoza, Obi Toppin, Quentin Grimes and Jericho Sims, among other youngsters. Then McBride will have to earn a spot in training camp. It’s a road less traveled for second-round picks, but McBride seems intent on establishing himself as the steal of the draft.

Immediately after the Knicks’ selection, he told the crowd at his draft party that he’d earn revenge on the teams that passed him over.

“I feel like I have a winning DNA. Throughout high school and college I’ve just always won,” McBride said. “That’s the main thing I want to bring to the Knicks is that winning DNA. They made the playoffs this year and just continue to drive upwards. During all that winning, a lot of teams are going to be regretting not picking me.”
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 30, 2021, 07:01:00 PM
Sorry.  I am just not believing Rose holds up an entire season plus playoffs

If he wants to run a team he can go elsewhere
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 30, 2021, 07:57:29 PM
Anyway - happy to see McBride aboard - and I think passing on Jackson shows we want more seasoned stock (read:. plan is to fully compete immediately, not wait for a simmering sort)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 30, 2021, 08:09:12 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 30, 2021, 07:01:00 PM
Sorry.  I am just not believing Rose holds up an entire season plus playoffs

If he wants to run a team he can go elsewhere

Good you have no say in the matter, moron.
Title: Re: This Just In
Post by: facilitatorn on July 30, 2021, 08:16:18 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 30, 2021, 06:39:17 PM
Hawks just copped Tristan Thompson from he Celtics for Kris Dunn, Bruno Hernando and a 2023 #2 pick. 

Great pickup for the Hawks. 

Fuck me.

Hawks just moved Thompson to Sacramento for Delon Wright. Guess Atlanta only trusts Cooper so far and no further.
Title: Re: This Just In
Post by: chipstern on July 30, 2021, 08:33:34 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 30, 2021, 08:16:18 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 30, 2021, 06:39:17 PM
Hawks just copped Tristan Thompson from he Celtics for Kris Dunn, Bruno Hernando and a 2023 #2 pick. 

Great pickup for the Hawks. 

Fuck me.

Hawks just moved Thompson to Sacramento for Delon Wright. Guess Atlanta only trusts Cooper so far and no further.

Interesting. 

Big combo guard who can hit threes and drain his FTs at a high clip. 

More back court depth behind Trae and Bogdonavich and Huerter, while bringing along Cooper and hopefully Sweet Lou at a reasonable price.  Nice back court. 

Thanks for the heads up Facil. 

PS: Does DeRozan stimulate your adrenal gland?  Or is that a private fantasy of mine?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 30, 2021, 08:35:39 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 30, 2021, 08:09:12 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 30, 2021, 07:01:00 PM
Sorry.  I am just not believing Rose holds up an entire season plus playoffs

If he wants to run a team he can go elsewhere

Good you have no say in the matter, moron.

The hits keep coming. 
Title: McBride
Post by: chipstern on July 30, 2021, 08:51:41 PM
Potential. 

Comparisons with our own Charlie Ward abound. 

Similar size at roughly 6'1"/6'2" and 200 pounds, with the requisite toughness that comes from being football players. 

At the risk of repeating myself, while undersized in pairing up with big NBA guards, McBride is a tenacious
ball hawk with a 6'9" wingspan, and enormous hands, on the order [proportionally] of a Giannis, a Connie Hawkins.  Forces on the order of 2 steals a game. 


Coming out of college, a better offensive repertoire than Ward had coming out of college, though Charlie dramatically increased his FT% and 3-pt shooting over the course of his career. 

McBride ["Deuce"] is apparently a capable 40% shooter from trey, as well as an efficient, fluid scorer
off the dribble and pull up.  He will be challenged to go to the rack at the next level, but hits his FTs at a plus-80% clip. 

A snarky competitor. 

Welcome to NY, Deuce. 
Title: The Incidence Of Coincidence
Post by: chipstern on July 30, 2021, 09:08:09 PM
Having a LOTTERY PICK is not a guarantee of success.

What was the Knicks batting average on LOTTERY PICKS?

2002: Nene Hillario [traded with Marcus Camby for Antonio McDyess]
2003: Michael Sweetney
2005: Channing Frye
2008: Danilo Gallinari
2009: Jordan Hill
2015: Kristaps Porzingis
2017: Frank Ntilikina
2018: Kevin Knox
2019: RJ Barrett
2020: Obi Toppin

And of course, if one were to listen to the groundlings, or Stephen A. Smith, we should trade them all for Dame Lillard, never you mind that HE AIN'T AVAILABLE. 

But then Knicks management and Knicks fans have traditionally been just find with eating their young. 

Whereas under the aegis of SCOTT PERRY [under the regimes of both Steve Mills and Leon Rose], the #25 and #36 picks have been propitious. 

#25: Immanuel Quickley, Quentin Grimes
#36: Mitchell Robinson, Miles McBride

Be interesting to see how the Knicks approach free agency and the deployment of all that Porzingis Trade Cap Space [KP, DeAndre Jordan, Courtney Lee, Wesley Matthews, Timmy Hardaway, Trey Burke] we've been sitting on or renting out in short terms auditions. 
Title: Frankie taking it to Iran!
Post by: lesterluv on July 30, 2021, 09:13:50 PM
https://stream.nbcolympics.com/basketball-mens-prelim-game-13-iran-france (https://stream.nbcolympics.com/basketball-mens-prelim-game-13-iran-france)

1. nice assist
2. silly foul
3. just got schooled at the first quarter buzzer by S. NiKKHAH!
4. BANG! The sweet three!
5. Sweet jumper nullified by foul before the shot.
6. Clangs a three.
7. Helps force a turnover
8. Another assist!
9. Bad pass, Frankie!
Halftime 46-27 France.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 31, 2021, 03:44:22 AM
NBADraftNet says Grimes is unable to create his own shot.   A good spot up shooter.  Which means getting a PG who can deliver him the ball is important (and key for the whole offense).

Quote from: chipstern on July 30, 2021, 09:08:09 PM
2003: Michael Sweetney
2005: Channing Frye
2008: Danilo Gallinari
2009: Jordan Hill
2015: Kristaps Porzingis
2017: Frank Ntilikina
2018: Kevin Knox
2019: RJ Barrett
2020: Obi Toppin[/color]

So:
4 / 8 hits
4 / 8 whiffs
1 misguided trade out (Dyess for Nene)
1 incomplete (Obi)

Whiffs:
Sweetney -- somewhat understandable as the talent had cratered, but guys like David West, Pietrus, Diaw were out there.  Sweetney just one of 6 1st rounders who played 4 years or less.

Jordan Hill -- DeRozan was the next pick.  JRue lower down.

Franc -- Donovan Mitch and Bam were on board

Knox -- Bridges x 2, Porter, Shai
*sigh* Knix went with risk when solid options abounded

The other 3 blown picks more understandable, as the talent had dropped off before we picked.

The Franc pick set us back too.
Strange that the Knix went B2B with young, high-risk picks.
Just nail one of those two drafts and we have another legit starter.
Even simply a 3&D Bridges locking down the SF slot, or better (Shai, Mitchell Porter, Bam).
Instead of iffy role players going into their 2nd contracts.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 31, 2021, 03:51:58 AM
The ObiT pick is still an awkward fit.
I guess we were uncertain about Randle.
But PF, especially backup PF, is a fairly easy slot to fill.

Hell, OKC just got a future 1st for doing the favor of taking on Favors (2/$20M) salary, to help Utah improve their cap.  OKC sent out only a late 2027 2nd rounder (the lowest of their 4 2nd rounders).
The kind of move Knix should be looking for.
Some teams will need to squeeze under the cap, or look to reduce their lux tax.  Makes it less painful for UtaH to resign Conley.
Favors a solid enough backup PF/C who can defend/rebound.

Assuming NYK extends Julius, ObiT should have more value on a developing team where he can get more minutes and develop/start, rather than as a 12-15 minute backup PF on the Knix, where Thibs prefers to run his starters long minutes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 31, 2021, 05:28:03 AM
BOS picked up Josh Rich for apparently nada.
Presumably DAL will then re-sign Tim Jr.
Also talk they may make a play for Lowry.

Seems Celts decided not to overpay for on-and-off Fournier, preferring the cheaper on-and-off Richardson ($11.5M to the $18M-$20M Fournier is looking for).  Josh Rich has been somewhat of a disappointment and has been shuffled around the past 3 off-seasons.  But still just 27, can soak up some minutes, doesn't hurt you, puts it together now and then.
With Tatum, Jaylen, Smart, Josh Rich is fine enough, rather than paying a lot for Fournier.

I Like ATL picking up Delon Wright.  They needed a backup PG, and more defense.  Dunn was supposed to fill that role, but he was injured last year and while a terrific on-ball defender, doesn't have much PG game on O.
Delon big enough to play next to Trae at times.  Helps Bogdan run the 2nd unit, without being overtaxed.  With Cooper drafted, I'd assume ATL moves on from Lou W.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 31, 2021, 08:19:44 AM
 Czechs 25 US 18. after 1.
Title: Poop
Post by: chipstern on July 31, 2021, 12:22:55 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 31, 2021, 05:28:03 AM
BOS picked up Josh Rich for apparently nada.
Presumably DAL will then re-sign Tim Jr.
Also talk they may make a play for Lowry.

Seems Celts decided not to overpay for on-and-off Fournier, preferring the cheaper on-and-off Richardson ($11.5M to the $18M-$20M Fournier is looking for).  Josh Rich has been somewhat of a disappointment and has been shuffled around the past 3 off-seasons.  But still just 27, can soak up some minutes, doesn't hurt you, puts it together now and then.
With Tatum, Jaylen, Smart, Josh Rich is fine enough, rather than paying a lot for Fournier.

I Like ATL picking up Delon Wright.  They needed a backup PG, and more defense.  Dunn was supposed to fill that role, but he was injured last year and while a terrific on-ball defender, doesn't have much PG game on O.
Delon big enough to play next to Trae at times.  Helps Bogdan run the 2nd unit, without being overtaxed.  With Cooper drafted, I'd assume ATL moves on from Lou W.

Poop is that there is "mutual" interest between Knicks and Fournier.

And that Dennis Schroder is on our radar.

Lonzo.

Leon Rose has a positive relationship with Father Ball.

Derrick Rose may not be  given.  Bulls have interest.
Title: Chamaco rushed to judgment
Post by: carlos123 on July 31, 2021, 01:19:19 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on July 31, 2021, 08:19:44 AM
Czechs 25 US 18. after 1.

US 119 - Czech Republic 84.

Top scorer: J. Tatum, 27 points in 24 minutes.

Heh, lol 😂
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on July 31, 2021, 01:52:51 PM
Kid has been a huge fan of Tatum far longer than everybody else here.
Title: We ALL know
Post by: carlos123 on July 31, 2021, 02:02:51 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on July 31, 2021, 01:52:51 PM
Kid has been a huge fan of Tatum far longer than everybody else here.

Yeah, sure, we all know Yank

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLWDWClzFZzeXctKJuxzagN1j46e6zq2EAoiDDmPh038jX2OPXG_5aykUoA1OBqeSIavC_nq-S_O1Q2hSePOp0ur9dZQcXJ7dXFFzjfZv9Cmigq01nVn4CLQyov_QFrvbrz_63zEXtCipUQmqm7n1UkT=w626-h570-no?authuser=0)
Title: Re: BEST NIGHT EVER
Post by: lesterluv on July 31, 2021, 02:55:18 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on July 29, 2021, 10:51:56 PM

** Plus Plus Bonus Plus: Every single peckerwood assclown prognostication about ANYTHING has been completely wrong. Despite knowing and predicting this in advance, it still satisfies! Like a good long fart after a big bowl of kasha!


He's the gift that keeps on giving...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 31, 2021, 03:57:57 PM
We have a definite profile on the three guys we drafted, strong and quick for their size, coached up on D already, can create and make shots in very tight windows. We’re talking pull up game and long jumpers for Duce and Grimes, along with a bit of craft around the cup. Sims is a catch and finisher on a level close to Mitch, and he may be better at getting to and holding his spot. I’m excited at the prospect of Kenny Payne developing those two together.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 31, 2021, 04:19:28 PM
Rose

Bulls

Yep.  Good back up for Sato.
Title: Re: Chamaco rushed to judgment
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 31, 2021, 04:27:45 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on July 31, 2021, 01:19:19 PM

 

US 119 - Czech Republic 84.

Top scorer: J. Tatum, 27 points in 24 minutes.



Don't short him his 2 rebounds (team had 36) or his 1 assist (team had 24)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 31, 2021, 04:31:23 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 31, 2021, 05:28:03 AM
BOS picked up Josh Rich for apparently nada.
Presumably DAL will then re-sign Tim Jr.
Also talk they may make a play for Lowry.

Seems Celts decided not to overpay for on-and-off Fournier, preferring the cheaper on-and-off Richardson ($11.5M to the $18M-$20M Fournier is looking for).  Josh Rich has been somewhat of a disappointment and has been shuffled around the past 3 off-seasons.  But still just 27, can soak up some minutes, doesn't hurt you, puts it together now and then.
With Tatum, Jaylen, Smart, Josh Rich is fine enough, rather than paying a lot for Fournier.



Celts still need a difference maker (when talking about seeking a conference title now)

Right now biggest addition has been Horfird without a doubt.

Udoka could be bigger?  I won't quibble, will wait to judge that
Title: Re: Poop
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 31, 2021, 04:33:20 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 31, 2021, 12:22:55 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 31, 2021, 05:28:03 AM
BOS picked up Josh Rich for apparently nada.
Presumably DAL will then re-sign Tim Jr.
Also talk they may make a play for Lowry.

Seems Celts decided not to overpay for on-and-off Fournier, preferring the cheaper on-and-off Richardson ($11.5M to the $18M-$20M Fournier is looking for).  Josh Rich has been somewhat of a disappointment and has been shuffled around the past 3 off-seasons.  But still just 27, can soak up some minutes, doesn't hurt you, puts it together now and then.
With Tatum, Jaylen, Smart, Josh Rich is fine enough, rather than paying a lot for Fournier.

I Like ATL picking up Delon Wright.  They needed a backup PG, and more defense.  Dunn was supposed to fill that role, but he was injured last year and while a terrific on-ball defender, doesn't have much PG game on O.
Delon big enough to play next to Trae at times.  Helps Bogdan run the 2nd unit, without being overtaxed.  With Cooper drafted, I'd assume ATL moves on from Lou W.

Poop is that there is "mutual" interest between Knicks and Fournier.

And that Dennis Schroder is on our radar.

Lonzo.

Leon Rose has a positive relationship with Father Ball.

Derrick Rose may not be  given.  Bulls have interest.

Knicks have a HUUUUGE radar. 

Heh.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 31, 2021, 05:23:06 PM
New O makes Ball a RESTRICTED free agent, officially.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 31, 2021, 05:54:27 PM
Norm Powell is still the guy I want to bring in. Sign Norm to a sizable sheet & bring back Rose, Burks, and Taj.

Mitch Pelle JSims
Randle Obi Taj
Powell Burks Knox
RJ Quickley Grimes
Rose McBride Vildoza
Title: Re: Chamaco rushed to judgment
Post by: carlos123 on July 31, 2021, 07:00:01 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 31, 2021, 04:27:45 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on July 31, 2021, 01:19:19 PM

US 119 - Czech Republic 84.

Top scorer: J. Tatum, 27 points in 24 minutes.


Don't short him his 2 rebounds (team had 36) or his 1 assist (team had 24)

Did you realize, o stable genius, that I wrote “Top SCORER”?

Heh, lol 😂 all over again, and again,… and again 😝 😆 😂
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 31, 2021, 07:16:23 PM
Knix desperately need a starting PG.
And need to convert some cap space into a quality starter (PG or SF).
So overpay some for Zo Ball.  If that gets matched.  Then next option is dump money at Duncan Robinson. Try to nab one of the best shooters in the game.  Prioritize adding a high-level PG or a deadly sniper.

Powell kind of a smaller RJB.
Good hustle, solid outside shot, Thibs type of effort guy.
But a bit mistake-prone, doesn't help with ballhandling/passing which NYK needs.  Looking for $18-$20M per ESPn.  Yikes.
For that money you could likely re-sign Bullocks ($8M) and add Oubre ($11M), another guy who doesn't help with ball movement.  Knix need some complementary ballhandlers.
The time to add Powell was 3 years ago.

For a wing vet, ESPn estimates Batum, Porter and Torrid Craig all around $5M.  Batum is smart and moves the ball.  Torey Craig a nice hustle 3&D bench guy.  Porter could be a bargain if he can get healthy.  Just 28, only played 42 games last 2 seasons combined.  Mostly a foot injury last two years.  Thigh troubles before that.  Is he encrippled?  Lost his motivation.  Could OP bounce back?  Batum or Craig might stay on good teams, but could leave for a bigger role and a little extra $$ -- say $7M.

Bullocks + Batum/Craig/Porter = $15M +/-.
More flexibility, solid SF coverage, and cheaper than adding Normative Powell.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 31, 2021, 08:11:15 PM
Good to see the support for Lonzo on this fine forum.



But....


Wait just a minute...


A). Mr Fultz's backcourt jusssst got a bit crowded

B). Heard on NBA Radio (Sirriusly) - Knicks should not be discounted in Ben Simmons discussion
Title: No Big Splash
Post by: chipstern on July 31, 2021, 08:35:06 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 31, 2021, 07:16:23 PM
Knix desperately need a starting PG.
And need to convert some cap space into a quality starter (PG or SF).
So overpay some for Zo Ball.  If that gets matched.  Then next option is dump money at Duncan Robinson. Try to nab one of the best shooters in the game.  Prioritize adding a high-level PG or a deadly sniper.

Powell kind of a smaller RJB.
Good hustle, solid outside shot, Thibs type of effort guy.
But a bit mistake-prone, doesn't help with ballhandling/passing which NYK needs.  Looking for $18-$20M per ESPn.  Yikes.
For that money you could likely re-sign Bullocks ($8M) and add Oubre ($11M), another guy who doesn't help with ball movement.  Knix need some complementary ballhandlers.
The time to add Powell was 3 years ago.

For a wing vet, ESPn estimates Batum, Porter and Torrid Craig all around $5M.  Batum is smart and moves the ball.  Torey Craig a nice hustle 3&D bench guy.  Porter could be a bargain if he can get healthy.  Just 28, only played 42 games last 2 seasons combined.  Mostly a foot injury last two years.  Thigh troubles before that.  Is he encrippled?  Lost his motivation.  Could OP bounce back?  Batum or Craig might stay on good teams, but could leave for a bigger role and a little extra $$ -- say $7M.

Bullocks + Batum/Craig/Porter = $15M +/-.
More flexibility, solid SF coverage, and cheaper than adding Normative Powell.

My sense of things is that Leon Rose and Brock Aller are going to confound expectations.

I would be all in on Lonzo Ball.

Not sure Leon is.

Agree about Norman Powell.

Fournier supposedly wants 80 million over 4 years.  Ball for that money?   Yes.  Fournier?  No.  I'd rather have Batum on the cheap.  Or DeRozan on the not so cheap. Or Duncan Robinson in the unlikely event we could spirit him away from Padre Riles.

Maybe I'm crazy, but I'm not feeling a big splash or two coming.  More like transitional moves.

Nothing utterly foolhardy and moronic like giving away the store for Collin Sexton or Ben Simmons, let alone 30-35 million for 36 year old PGs.

PS: Knicks just waived Pelle and picked up Mitchell's Robinson's option and Julius'.  Suspect they both might get their extensions soon.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 31, 2021, 08:47:03 PM
Re:. Leon

Only thing I will say is never be surprised as he keeps things quite close to the vest

Obi pick.  Deals ahead of IQ pick.  Trade downs last night - forum would have laughed heartily if that had been brought up pre draft

Expect nothing

Be surprised by nothing

And I would add after last season - criticize nothing
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on July 31, 2021, 09:06:35 PM
I'd get a hell of lot more excited about a Talen Horton-Tucker than most of the names being bandied about here. The kid is 20.
Title: Re: No Big Splash
Post by: facilitatorn on July 31, 2021, 09:17:31 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 31, 2021, 08:35:06 PM
PS: Knicks just waived Pelle and picked up Mitchell's Robinson's option and Julius'.  Suspect they both might get their extensions soon.

Both of those options were team friendly.

I guess with Jericho Sims we have Pelle’s replacement on board.

I’d like a third big who can legit stretch the floor and is also a legit big.

We’ll see how this close to the vest shit works out…
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 31, 2021, 10:39:55 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on July 31, 2021, 09:06:35 PM
I'd get a hell of lot more excited about a Talen Horton-Tucker than most of the names being bandied about here. The kid is 20.

Lakers kept him (Lowry talks) and gave up a great shot at another title
Title: Re: No Big Splash
Post by: chipstern on July 31, 2021, 11:22:46 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 31, 2021, 09:17:31 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 31, 2021, 08:35:06 PM
PS: Knicks just waived Pelle and picked up Mitchell's Robinson's option and Julius'.  Suspect they both might get their extensions soon.

Both of those options were team friendly.

I guess with Jericho Sims we have Pelle’s replacement on board.

I’d like a third big who can legit stretch the floor and is also a legit big.

We’ll see how this close to the vest shit works out…

Kelly Olnyk

Bobby Portis
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 01, 2021, 01:10:19 AM
I was pondering Olynk. Bobby is worth a look as well if his number is reasonable.

I like this Aamir Simms kid as a sneaky good post draft pickup.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 01, 2021, 04:05:30 AM
As for Bigs:

Olynyk and Markkanen likely in that $10M - $12M range which means looking for somewhat more than the mid-level which capped teams can offer.  Both interesting, but Markk still has room to develop.

Pre-injured Zach Collins (23) might be had for ~ $5M.
Nice talent.  Missed a year with a shoulder injury, then another after ankle surgery.  Check on his health.  Good news, no knee issues.  Could be a real bargain.

ESPN expects only vet min contracts (circa $2M) for the following:
Patrick Patterson 32 - a bit soft but can score and board
Nemanja Bjelica    33 -  slow, iffy D, stretch 4, older than I thought
Frank Kaminsky    28 - stretch Big, can bang and board some
Moe Wagner    24 - talented, should be a solid backup C
D.J. Wilson         25 - hasn't developed, but bouncy, long, ankle injuries

Most of these would make more sense if we hadn't drafted ObiT.
Markk, Tank and Mo Wag would be my picks.  And real interested in Zach.
Title: POOP
Post by: chipstern on August 01, 2021, 06:41:50 AM
Mark Schanowski: Watching NBA TV’s free agency special. Well respected @ChrisBHaynes reports unless there’s a major “hiccup”, sources tell him Lonzo Ball intends to work out a contract with the Bulls. Pelicans are going hard after free agent PG Kyle Lowry.

Jake Fischer on DeMar DeRozan: It’s definitely starting to sound like the situation of him going to Los Angeles on that mid-level is not going to be the case. –

DeMar DeRozan – believing Raptors president Masai Ujiri lied to him before trading him to the Spurs for Kawhi Leonard – said of Ujiri: “I have no reason to talk to him. At all.” Apparently, DeRozan felt that way immediately. He said he hung up on Ujiri when the executive called to deliver the trade news in 2018, as DeRozan detailed on “Club Shay Shay” with Shannon Sharpe.

Title: Leon Rose
Post by: chipstern on August 01, 2021, 06:49:54 AM
Talk about a motherfucker who in no way shape or form will tip his hand. 

Confounding on a certain level. 

Refreshing on another. 

Most of what I read in the way of conjecture in the media [such as Marc Berman's ENDLESS projections about cap space for Chris Paul] and blogosphere fantasy camp about Lillard and Beal [the latter looking to be a lock to remain on the Wizards, what with Coach Unseld Junior coming on board, his good friend Pope joining the team, the drafting of Kispert, an infusion of talent in Kuzma and Harrell--stay tuned for possible deals, here--and a core of young talent in Thomas Bryant, Davis Bertans, Rui Hachimura and Deni Avdija.
Title: Deuce McBride
Post by: chipstern on August 01, 2021, 07:49:33 AM
STRENGTHS
• Sturdy combo guard with excellent defensive potential
• Elite on-ball defender with a ball-hawk mentality
• Versatile scorer who can create his own shot
• Good touch on mid-range jumper; has three-point range.

PERSONAL
• 2020-21 Academic All-Big 12 Second Team choice
• 2019-20 Academic All-Big 12 Rookie Team pick
• Standout high school quarterback
• High school basketball teammate of the Pelicans’ Jaxson Hayes
• Father, Walt, played basketball at Xavier
• Mother, Kim, played tennis at Ohio State
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 01, 2021, 08:13:57 AM
Most of these would make more sense if we hadn't drafted ObiT.


Heh

Good to have you back, Bo.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 01, 2021, 08:42:13 AM
Like NYK, Wiz really need a starting PG now.
I guess they didn't want Shroeder.
Wiz got a nice bunch of role players for Westbrook. 

That's another reason why I'd sign Ball.  Even if he doesn't fit NYK well for whatever reason, he's a young asset who can be flipped later.  Gets us in the convo for picking up another quality starting PG or to pony up for the next disgruntled star.

Ball a 3&D PG.  Pushes the pace, moves the ball.  Young and can still develop.  Can work on finishing and midrange.  Knix seem further along and a better environment than CHI, which is still adrift.  Not everyone wants to join Thibs boot camo, but Ball seems like a gym rat and willing to defend ...

Anyway, dicey for WASh to trade out their starting PG without getting one in return.

Quote
Pelton: We'll look back on the contract Ball signs as a restricted free agent as the best value of any signed for more than $10 million per season. Although Ball isn't exactly a point guard, the track record of players of his ilk outplaying their second contracts is strong, and Ball is young enough to continue improving well into a new deal.
Title: Re: Leon Rose
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 01, 2021, 10:42:52 AM
Quote from: chipstern on August 01, 2021, 06:49:54 AM
Talk about a motherfucker who in no way shape or form will tip his hand. 

Confounding on a certain level. 

Refreshing on another. 

Most of what I read in the way of conjecture in the media [such as Marc Berman's ENDLESS projections about cap space for Chris Paul] and blogosphere fantasy camp about Lillard and Beal [the latter looking to be a lock to remain on the Wizards, what with Coach Unseld Junior coming on board, his good friend Pope joining the team, the drafting of Kispert, an infusion of talent in Kuzma and Harrell--stay tuned for possible deals, here--and a core of young talent in Thomas Bryant, Davis Bertans, Rui Hachimura and Deni Avdija.

Wizards a team to follow, surely.  Should be fun.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on August 01, 2021, 12:05:45 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on August 01, 2021, 08:13:57 AM
Most of these would make more sense if we hadn't drafted ObiT.


Heh

Good to have you back, Bo.

Here's the thing. Forget about we don't need ____ because we have Obi & Randle, or we don't need THT because we already have ______.

The next time, or some upcoming time, a disgruntled Harden/Davis/(Lillard)/(whoever) comes up we are very likely to be a player. That plus an A List free agent is clearly THE PLAN. That's how we get our A1 Dog, since it is not Randle and it is pretty damn unlikely to come about through the draft.

We are going to give up that big basket of preserved picks. That's why we have it.

We are going to give up some serious talent. Randle might even be in that package.

You want to have as much leftover in the closet as possible for when that moment arrives.

So you keep stocking up. In the meantime, competition is good for everybody.


*** I would love to include Zach Collins in that stocking up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 01, 2021, 02:06:23 PM
Randle certainly capable of being part of a BIG THREE.

RJ not there yet.

So, we seek the SECOND piece.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on August 01, 2021, 02:27:03 PM
a pretty strong big three in fact...

...but he ain't lead dog in a finals contending trio, no way no how, so we gonna try and grab one for sure if the opportunity arises and be willing to part ways if necessity necessitates.


**** think I'm calling back my Zach Collins, I checked on his health per Bo — just had ANOTHER surgical revision on his stress fracture three weeks ago, real bad stuff for a big man, would still throw the minimum but no more..
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 01, 2021, 04:31:18 PM
I'd expect that a PF such as Zach Collins, likely signing on to a make-good one year deal to get his career back on track, would look at the NYK roster with Randle & ObiT in place and figure minutes would be hard to come by.  And go elsewhere where PF minutes are available.  While Knix would have to question whether a 3rd-string PF was a good use of cap space.

Otoh, Batum, Porter, Duncan Rob, Oubre or another SF could see an opportunity to start or get good minutes as a backup Knick.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 01, 2021, 06:42:39 PM
Malik Monk is of no further use to Charlotte and hits the unrestricted free agent market.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 01, 2021, 07:05:03 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 01, 2021, 04:31:18 PM
I'd expect that a PF such as Zach Collins, likely signing on to a make-good one year deal to get his career back on track, would look at the NYK roster with Randle & ObiT in place and figure minutes would be hard to come by.  And go elsewhere where PF minutes are available.  While Knix would have to question whether a 3rd-string PF was a good use of cap space.

Otoh, Batum, Porter, Duncan Rob, Oubre or another SF could see an opportunity to start or get good minutes as a backup Knick.

My own targets?  Assuming Ball ain't on the radar?

DeMar DeRozan
Cameron Payne
Reggie Jackson
Kelly Olynk 
Title: The Other Shoe Drops
Post by: chipstern on August 01, 2021, 07:05:32 PM
Marc Berman: Frank Ntilikina, longest-tenured Knicks, going to be an unrestricted free agent. Knicks didn’t submit a qualifying offer at 5 pm deadline, taking off restricted tag. Could still re-sign him. – via Twitter NYPost_Berman
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 01, 2021, 07:28:15 PM
Farewell, Frank.

McBuckets, Ariza, and Nader from Phoenix are guys I’m looking at among the UFAs who played elsewhere last year
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 01, 2021, 07:55:45 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 01, 2021, 06:42:39 PM
Malik Monk is of no further use to Charlotte and hits the unrestricted free agent market.

That's a thought. 

But we just got Quentin Grimes.  Prefer to go with the new kid on the block.  Bigger.  Stronger.  Healthier.  FRESHER.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 01, 2021, 07:56:58 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 01, 2021, 07:28:15 PM
Farewell, Frank.

McBuckets, Ariza, and Nader from Phoenix are guys I’m looking at among the UFAs who played elsewhere last year

Not so sure that Frank is history. 

At 8.36 million for a qualifying offer? 

No way Jose. 

For considerably less? 

We shall see. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 01, 2021, 09:27:45 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 01, 2021, 07:55:45 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 01, 2021, 06:42:39 PM
Malik Monk is of no further use to Charlotte and hits the unrestricted free agent market.

That's a thought. 

But we just got Quentin Grimes.  Prefer to go with the new kid on the block.  Bigger.  Stronger.  Healthier.  FRESHER.   

I hope there’s nowhere for Monk on the Knicks. Is Charlotte done trimming their backcourt?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 01, 2021, 09:48:06 PM
The play is to re-up Rose while Chicago wrestles w New Orleans over Ball. If we get that done, I think everything else will fall into place.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 02, 2021, 12:26:54 AM
Elfrid drops CAA.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 02, 2021, 02:17:24 AM
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2946639-br-staff-makes-2021-nba-free-agency-and-trade-market-predictions (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2946639-br-staff-makes-2021-nba-free-agency-and-trade-market-predictions)

“ Prediction: Fournier to the Knicks on a three-year, $55 million contract. That's too rich for Boston's blood and why it made a trade with the Dallas Mavericks to pick up Josh Richardson (for Moses Brown) on Saturday.

—Pincus”

He also had Klaw opting in, so…
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 02, 2021, 08:59:45 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 02, 2021, 02:17:24 AM
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2946639-br-staff-makes-2021-nba-free-agency-and-trade-market-predictions (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2946639-br-staff-makes-2021-nba-free-agency-and-trade-market-predictions)

“ Prediction: Fournier to the Knicks on a three-year, $55 million contract. That's too rich for Boston's blood and why it made a trade with the Dallas Mavericks to pick up Josh Richardson (for Moses Brown) on Saturday.

—Pincus”

He also had Klaw opting in, so…

Kawbi opted out.

Look for him to reup with the Clips.

Fournier

And?

Schroeder would be my guess, if not necessarily my prefefence.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 02, 2021, 03:31:39 PM
Reggie Jax over Dennis the not-quite-a-menace. D Rose over both. I’m happy w Rose & Fornier on 3 year 50 mil-ish deals. Same ballpark but on the lower end for Burks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 02, 2021, 05:07:30 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 01, 2021, 07:05:03 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 01, 2021, 04:31:18 PM
I'd expect that a PF such as Zach Collins, likely signing on to a make-good one year deal to get his career back on track, would look at the NYK roster with Randle & ObiT in place and figure minutes would be hard to come by.  And go elsewhere where PF minutes are available.  While Knix would have to question whether a 3rd-string PF was a good use of cap space.

Otoh, Batum, Porter, Duncan Rob, Oubre or another SF could see an opportunity to start or get good minutes as a backup Knick.

My own targets?  Assuming Ball ain't on the radar?

DeMar DeRozan
Cameron Payne
Reggie Jackson
Kelly Olynk

Heh heh heh

All of which I have spoken highly in the past.

Well done.
Title: Signing our own
Post by: Kam on August 02, 2021, 06:48:16 PM
Burks 3yr/30mil and Noel 3yr/32mil return on team-friendly deals.   Good players on easily movable contracts. 
This is a strategy I advocated.  Knicks are staying competitive while remaining a player in future trade markets.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 02, 2021, 07:07:02 PM
The underpay for Burks cancels out the overpay for Noel who can now afford a private hands coach with the new contract.

Still need Rose and Taj. And maybe Fornier.

Mitch Noel Sims
Randle Toppin Simms
Burks Knox
Barrett Quickley Grimes
Vildoza McBride
Title: head spinning, whirling, bobbing, twirling, reeling
Post by: lesterluv on August 02, 2021, 07:47:01 PM
Still trying to wrap my mind around the fact that after the 30-year Knick search for a Reggie Bullock finally landed Reggie Bullock we let go of Reggie Bullock


https://twitter.com/espn_macmahon/status/1422335521418665986 (https://twitter.com/espn_macmahon/status/1422335521418665986)


** we appreciated what ya brought Reg!

* good pickup for the Mavs, he'll fit nicely there

** our two weakest starting spots now guaranteed to be upgraded!

*** or was it a 40 year search according to Zizzley? Can't remember.

* I have no issue with calling this strategy the "Kamster Gambit"
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 02, 2021, 08:19:51 PM
Reggie got his Bag, which he earned, and is more than I wanted us to pay him. Now his job is Ding up and setting up off of Luca. It’s a pretty good role for a good player.

Meanwhile on a 3 year guarantee w a team option for the 4th we have Evan Fournier at just under 19.5 per year, 78 mil total.

Mitch Noel Sims
Randle Obi Simms
Fournier Burks Knox
RJ Quickley Grimes
Vildoza McBride

Rose is the last big shoe to drop.

10 (AB) + 11 (NN) + 19 (EF) leaves 11 mil for Rose or 14 if we waive Vildoza.
Title: 4/80 for Fournier! (and shoe dropped)
Post by: lesterluv on August 02, 2021, 08:22:12 PM
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1422347631242747912
 (https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1422347631242747912)
Yow....4th Year a Team Option...whew....

Come on back Mr. Rose!

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1422349393659838465
 (https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1422349393659838465)

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 02, 2021, 08:27:07 PM
Rose 3 for 43. Nice.

Just two extensions to work out then get everyone fit & healthy & on the same page.

Shot creation and spacing were served except at the center spot.

The Lakers should really get in touch w Taj. He could really help their campaign.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 02, 2021, 08:42:09 PM
Mitch Noel Sims
Randle Obi Simms
Fournier Burks Knox
RJ Grimes Quickley
Rose Vildoza McBride

The second unit is smaller & faster with similar tendencies and skills and the third unit are all young physical specimens ready to throw their bodies around as they learn the nuances of the game from the guys ahead of them. We still have a spot or two left if we put Sims or Simms on a two way deal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on August 02, 2021, 10:26:25 PM
Yep, this is good solid stuff, and has me very much looking forward to the coming year. With some health from Mitch (can't wait for the return of 48 minutes of continual rim protection), more development from the young ones, a little productivity from the rookies, better offense creativity from Thibs, could be a fun one.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on August 02, 2021, 11:01:02 PM
I'm happy with all this too.

Fuck it, I like our guys. However imperfect, this new formation seems much better than the alternatives endlessly ballyhooed in recent months.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 03, 2021, 01:12:51 AM
$10M for Noel is on par with starting defensive C salaries.  Most making $12M +/-$2M.  Nawlins did a great job last year.  Seemed to have a key 4Q block every game 2nd half of the season.   

Mitch still making nothing.  So Knix paying $12M for two quality defensive C's. Gives NYK a chance to evaluate Mitch's health/impact and decide who starts/stays long-term.  Either/both are tradeable assets. 

Pelle for all his grit was 28.  Sims is young.  Or bring back Taj.  Taj's offensive boarding was masterful.  Besides the extra possessions, Taj's O-boarding was a defensive strategy on to itself.  Plenty of times Taj tipped a potential O-board, preventing the opps from any chance at transition, allowing Knix to get set on D and find their preferred matchups.  Valuable stuff.

I'd say Knix overpaid some for Rose.  Sort of a Thibs thank you for the years.  Rose as starting PG without a clear backup ...

Bullocks got a 3/$30M with DAL.  Who basically swapped Josh Rich for Reg Bullox.  Celts swapped Fournier for the cheaper Josh Rich.  Fournier always strikes me as a guy who can score, but takes nights and quarters off.  And gets in trouble when he tries to do too much dribbling and forces shot creation.  Not as focused on D as he should be.  Gets some unnecessary fouls by being out of position or taking a bad angle.  Overall, imo  Fournier needs to focus more and up his consistency.  Otherwise he's a fairly good offensive player who you can't rely on too much.  Getting the same ($18M or so) money as Tim Jr.

Well, Chip should be happy.  As this was very much a like-our-team type of off-season.  I guess Fournier is the starting SF.  And RJB now guards the other team's best wing scorer.  An extra challenge for our young pup.

Bench looks solid, if we can unearth a backup PG or one of our rooks is ready.  Burdening Rose with big minutes sounds real short-sighted, like a disaster waiting to happen.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 03, 2021, 01:14:35 AM
Plus we’ll be adding wrinkles to a foundation started last year instead of reinventing the whole thing from scratch. We keep 8 of our 10 regular rotation players from last season’s team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 03, 2021, 01:43:57 AM
Bucks found a great Tucker replacement in Ojeleye. Nice job by their FO.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 03, 2021, 03:45:30 AM
George Hill got waived…
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 03, 2021, 09:11:22 AM
Wizards get even more interesting

Dinwiddie at 3/60.
Title: Writing on the ball
Post by: Kam on August 03, 2021, 09:20:02 AM
After signing Noel to multiple years you create a potential trade of either Noel or Mitch sometime before having to re-sign Mitch.


For example Mitch+Burks+Fournier = $30mil to trade for a starting lineup upgrade if we want to go all-in on a big money player making $37.5mil

Or Noel+Rose = $25mil for a backcourt upgrade if we want to go for a player making $31mil

We have a lot of SHORT contracts between 10mil-20mil to mix and match.  A clear and obvious sign we are willing to deal.

Add in our draft capital and we are a very real player for the next big name who wants to leave their current team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 03, 2021, 11:01:11 AM
Yes.  Good post.

But first...

must keep winning

NBATV guys not sure we are solidly in top 8, seems they feel last season was a bit flukey

Me?  I think the continuity, plus a usable guy like Fornier and better Robinson health (fingers crossed) plus maturity from Toppin signals an incredibly deep group.

I think when all is said and done this could be a Knicks era we can be proud of, even short of a title.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 03, 2021, 11:34:39 AM
So...

what exactly happened with Brad Stevens and Evan Fournier, Celtics being EF's preferred landing spot?

Inquiring minds want to know.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 03, 2021, 11:36:26 AM
Fun Olympics Final 4

US v Australia
France v Slovenia

US game 1215 am eastern Thursday
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 03, 2021, 11:45:09 AM
Good piece summing up Kam's latest post

https://www.sny.tv/articles/knicks-nba-free-agency-notes-8-2-21
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 03, 2021, 12:12:59 PM
Not sure what PHI will do, but with Embiid/Tobias and either Simmons or what they get for Simmons, '6ers should be Top 3 in the East.  Along with BKY and MIL.  MIA probably just busted into the Top 4 by adding Lowry.

5. ATL was better than us last year, and with better health they could be in contention again.  Very deep team, and now with some PG depth.  More experienced, good continuity.

Then there's BOS, IND, NYK, WAS & CHA fighting for the last 3 spots.
All of those teams have talent & flaws.
So 6-10 range for NY.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 03, 2021, 01:38:57 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 03, 2021, 01:12:51 AM
$10M for Noel is on par with starting defensive C salaries.  Most making $12M +/-$2M.  Nawlins did a great job last year.  Seemed to have a key 4Q block every game 2nd half of the season.   

Mitch still making nothing.  So Knix paying $12M for two quality defensive C's. Gives NYK a chance to evaluate Mitch's health/impact and decide who starts/stays long-term.  Either/both are tradeable assets. 

Pelle for all his grit was 28.  Sims is young.  Or bring back Taj.  Taj's offensive boarding was masterful.  Besides the extra possessions, Taj's O-boarding was a defensive strategy on to itself.  Plenty of times Taj tipped a potential O-board, preventing the opps from any chance at transition, allowing Knix to get set on D and find their preferred matchups.  Valuable stuff.


Taj returns for 2.7mil.  I believe we are now at the salary cap.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 03, 2021, 02:03:07 PM
 Hearing Bird rights used on D Rose, freeing more free agent cash

Nice, Leon.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 03, 2021, 02:04:19 PM
The mystery of TOR passing on Jalen Suggs for Scottie Barnes is solved - as Raps latch onto GORAN DRAGIC via the Lowry deal.

Will they still in time regret not having Suggs?  I say they just might - but we shall see,
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 03, 2021, 02:07:12 PM
With the Knicks out of cap space, they are still trying to add a new point guard to the roster via trade, according to sources, or by using their $5 million cap-room exception. The Knicks, after they got destroyed by the Hawks, 4-1, in the first round of the playoffs, are still not a preferred destination for free agents. They were forced to roll it back, with Fournier deemed as their offseason difference-maker. – via Marc Berman @ New York Post

Yeah  - Rose continuing his role off the bench makes sense.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 03, 2021, 02:13:37 PM
Not surprised we re-signed Taj.  Did good work.  Terrific 3rd string C.  And a Thibs guy for life.  I'm guessing $2.7M is the vet min for a guy with his tenure.  And if so the league pays much of that -- though i assume all of it goes against the cap.

Lotta starting PG's shuffled around, and Knix stood on the sidelines (as usual).  Then again, I don't think I would have wanted to pay Dinwiddie $20M per even if he hadn't had a serious injury.  Sounds like the Knix didn't make a play for BallZo. 

SA picked up Zach Collins and McDermott.  3/$22M for Zach.
Exactly the type of retooling team that should take a chance on Zach.
SAS had limited 3-point shooting last year (DeJounte and DeRozan don't shoot them -- so McDeRmott will help)

McConnell 4/$35M.  Fairly long and pricey.  (FA's Caruso and Theis got similar deals).  Can't be many backup PG's making more than that. 

Quote
Sources: Otto Porter Jr. turned down the midlevel exception elsewhere to play for the Warriors at the minimum.
Interesting if he passed up nearly $10M for under $3M.
An opportunity for Porter to get back on track.  A capable 3 point shooter who should get open shots.
GSW also picked up Bjelica

Dragic has gotten creaky.
Likely Suggs just didn't impress them.  Rumoured to have had a poor TOR workout.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 03, 2021, 02:54:32 PM
McConnell 4/$35M.  Fairly long and pricey.  (FA's Caruso and Theis got similar deals).  Can't be many backup PG's making more than that.


Yeah, I see Caruso signed for 4/38.

It's the MIX, not so much the payments that has to make sense.

How do the players fit together?

You hear that, Brad Stevens?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 03, 2021, 02:56:22 PM
Speaking of the Celtics - NBA Radio guys shitting on Payton Pritchard a bit.

I totally disagree.  Get that kid out of the corner, get the damn ball out of Tatum's hands and let the PG work.  More than a role player if given a shot.  Will UDOKA agree?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 03, 2021, 03:06:06 PM
Tatum 3/5 from deep after 5/10 in mostly garbage time the game before.  Seems to like the international ball/line

His stroke will be key in semi and final.

Durant statement was interesting - said Pop needed time to settle on a rotation - and that PRACTICE TIME in Japan has been key.  Time = success when there is talent.  I do like the 9-man rotation (Jerami Grant currently the tenth)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 03, 2021, 03:07:11 PM
That said - Rubio damn near beat us almost single-handedly

Beware Luka.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 03, 2021, 03:27:18 PM
Nice that Taj is back. I always figured that likely. This moves one or both Sim(m)s to the two-way slot. Let’s say it’s both & see where we’re at…

Mitch Noel Taj
Randle Obi Knox
Fournier Burks Grimes
RJ Quickley Vildoza
Rose McBride

Sims Simms

There’s room for a PG.

Who is left available?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 03, 2021, 03:38:21 PM
It looks like we have 8 mil to play with. My top get would be Reggie Jackson, who I haven’t heard has signed anywhere, though I suspect he gets more.

It doesn’t look like Nunn or THT have come to terms. I’d give either one an 8 mil starting offer and see if it works. The Heat have pulled their QO and don’t have the right to match.

Malik Monk and Melo to Lakers.
Title: Stability, Chemistry, Consistency
Post by: chipstern on August 03, 2021, 03:48:55 PM
COLOR CHIP HAPPY

Mitch Noel [Sims]
Randle Obi Taj [Simms]
Fournier Burks Knox
RJ Grimes Quickley
Rose Vildoza McBride [Jokubaitis]

I tell you what. 

Rose, WWW, Aller, Perry, Perrin

Thibs, Bryant, Payne

For the first time in my adult life, I have genuine confidence in the Knicks management and coaching

Are we a championship contender?

NO. 

But we are a a competitive team a playoff aspirations and a maturing culture, and as the Hawks proved, once you get into the final scrum, anything is possible. 

(https://cdn-media.theathletic.com/cdn-cgi/image/fit=cover,width=700,height=466/MIn8y8c6pZcw_MIn8y8c6pZcw_3cXqNZpMR9jx_original_1440x960.jpg)

Hey, the East is TOUGH and just got tougher. 

BoD's critique of Fournier is not unfair. 

But there's the thing. 

As per the money he is getting? 

It was enough to get the Celtics to fold up shop.  Timmy Hardaway money [and on Timmy's third contract, I believe he has earned it, as he kept growing]. 

Fournier will be 29 by opening day. 

He has prototypical size and length as a 6'7" NBA wing, Knox is 6'7".  Burks and RJ are 6'6"

Bullock is a better man on man lock up defender for sure, and statistically, a better 3 point and FT shooter. 

But Bullock's strength as a three point shooter, is as a catch and shoot.  How many two pointers do you recall him making last season?  And he does not get to the FT line very often.  On Dallas, spotting up with Timmy waiting for a squirt from Docic's tit, he ought to be in hog heaven. 

Fournier is far superior as an all around scorer.  Unlike Bullock, he can create his own shot, off the dribble, the penetration, in the mid and long range game.  Fournier and Burks and RJ all have shown a gift for getting to the rack, getting and converting more free throws, which is very much a Derrick Rose/THIBS modus operandi. 

Fournier converts like 80% of his FTs, has shown himself capable of knocking down 17-20 points a night.  He is also good for 3 boards and 3 assists and 1 steal a night.   

AGAIN, Fournier, Burks, Rose all can create their own offense.  Bullock is most effective as a spot up shooter. 

You better believe that THIBS was pulling for FOURNIER, and he fucking loved Reggie Bullock. 

The addition of Fournier, the re-upping of Rose, Noel, Burks and Gibson, the subtraction of Payton and Ntilikina, the drafting of Grimes, Jokubaitis and McBride, the signing of Vildoza, and the reach our to Sims & Simms, bespeaks THIBS' interest in shooting, bigger wings who can create their own offense, PGs who can shoot and run the pick and roll, and get to the rack and finish and convert from the charity stripe. 

Sims & Simms look like Westchester 2-way contracts, good for 50 games with the big boys. Jericho looks to have enough upside to justify cutting loose Pelle.  Epic Hops, defensive presence and a handsome academic soul to boot.  Jokubaitis is a PLAYA, and I really look forward to seeing him in summer league.  He has opt out provisions, and even after a year or two of seasoning on Euroleague powerhouse Barcelona he will still only be 22. 

Grimes and McBride are DAWGS.  Great three point shooters and fierce defenders.  Vildoza has been up and down in the Olympics, but also defends, is adept at penetrating and the pick and roll, a wily passer, and when not pressing, a good three point shooter.  Some aspects of his game remind me of Rose, others of Quickley. 

Having Noel and Sims [and Taj AND Obi] to push Mitchell can only give us more quality depth, defense and fouls to give.  No reason Obi cannot evolve as a hybird PF-C like kindly Uncle Taj. 

Was watching a replay of our first win of the season when we put whooping on the Bucks [who later in the season, when more in sync, fucking nuked us], and it was a revelation how well Mitchell played, was able to intermittently frustrate Giannis, and what a great opening run Burks was on before hurting his ankle.  Also, great games from the dearly departed and eternally inconsistent, Elfrid and Frank. 

I'm rambling. 

But I am so happy we retained Noel, Burks and Taj.  Nerlens and Alecs got well deserved raises, and clearly bought in to being part of this culture, even though they might've gotten more money elsewhere. 

We were generous with Rose, but he EARNED IT, and also, based on Bird rights and God only knows what else, all of his salary, as per Grand Wizir Aller, will not count against the cap. 

Steve Popper: Hearing that the Derrick Rose deal may not hamstring the Knicks the way it’s been talked about – think he’s fitting into an early bird slot, so Knicks could have at least $9 million – which could escalate easily to $12 million

I'm still rambling. 

We brought back most of the key players who helped THIBS change the team and defensive culture, who made us a playoff team, and who as a result, WANTED TO BE BACK, WANTED TO BE KNICKS. 

I am THRILLED that we did not go all in for the fucking SHINY OBJECTS, be they Colin Sexton, Kelly Oubre, Dennis Schroeder, Spencer Dimwiddie, all talented players, but all of who severely over estimate their net worth. 

I am THRILLED that the trade your entire fucking team for a SHINY OBJECT circle jerk has mercifully ended.  I am happy for Bradley Beal and how the Wiz have upgraded the team around him, ditto the Bulls and Zack Lavine [Lonzo Ball a perfect addition and running buddy]. I have ZERO expectation that Kawhi is leaving the Clippers.  And while Dame remains a persistent wet dream in the hearts and mind of half the league, and eternal dipshit Stephen A., I suspect that if the Blazers re=up Powell and trade O-C for the Raptors Sakim, that would be a serious upgrade worthy of Lillard. 

Elsewhere, Carmelo and Malik Monk and Dwight Howard heading to the Lakers.  Cool. 

DeMar DeRozan heading being courted by the Bulls and the Clippers?  Clips seem the better match. 

Patty Mills is a Nyet.  FUCK ME. 

Andre Drummond to the Sixers. 

McDermott to the Spurs.  Someone remind me why we traded him for Emmanuel Mudiay and gave him all of Frank's minutes? 

Heat pulled their qualifying offer to Kendrick Nunn. 

Robin Lopez to the Magic.  Nice rebuild in progress. 



Title: Other Moves?
Post by: chipstern on August 03, 2021, 04:00:32 PM
Facil. 

I do not think we have sundered all of our cap space, as per returning players. 

I love Reggie Jackson and Kendrick Nunn. 

But we already have a very crowded and very deep roster. 

I should think we would want to develop IQ and Vildoza and McBride in tandem with Rose. 

Besides, keeping another, say for argument's sake, 8-10 million in cap space, and an open roster space, seems like an Aller-Perry kind of machination, in the event there is a buyout and some low hanging fruit on the waiver wire some months from now. 

I mean, look at all of the veteran's minimum cards the Lakers are playing. 

I really like our roster.  Good mix of vets and puppies.  Be ferocious competition at every position, one through five.  No reason to preclude development or rotational complexity by having an Austin Rivers buried on the pine.  Kendrick Nunn?  Would be a great pickup, I grant you.  But at the cost of time for McBride?  Quickley?  Vildoza?  Grimes? 

Again, I love how Leon Rose has nurtured and sustained most of the burgeoning talent from last year's MAKE GOOD contracts, and has sold those players at coming back at fair market rates. 

Fournier?  He got a contract offer to make the Celtics swallow their tongue. 

Rose?  He got a generous extension because HE IS FUCKING DERRICK ROSE, Thibs' main man, and because he proved that for 25 minutes a night, let alone as a coach on the floor [Obi and IQ] and a leader in the locker room, love, as Frank Sinatra suggested, is so much better the second time around. 
Title: Lakers Geriatric Ward [Knicks Puppy Hostel]
Post by: chipstern on August 03, 2021, 04:29:29 PM
Arash Markazi: Carmelo Anthony — 37 years old LeBron James – 36 years old Trevor Ariza – 36 years old Marc Gasol – 36 years old Dwight Howard – 35 years old - Wayne Ellington – 33 years old Kent Bazemore – 32 years old Russell Westbrook — 32 years old – via Twitter ArashMarkazi

Taj Gibson [36]
Derrick Rose [32]
Alec Burks [30]

Evan Fournier [28]
Nerlens Noel [27]
Julius Randle [26]
Luca Vildoza [25]

Mitchell Robinson [23]
Obi Toppin [23]
Immanuel Quickley [22]
Jericho Sims [22]
Aamir Sims [22]
Kevin Knox [21]
RJ Barrett [21]
Quentin Grimes [21]
Miles McBride [20]
Rokas Jokubaitis [20]

THIBS Is Anti-Youth?  Doesn't Play Rookie? 

DAMN. 

This is why the Knicks are paying Johnnie Bryant $1 Milllion and Kenny Payne $1.5 Million as assistant coaches.  PLYAER DEVELOPMENT.  Not lip service.  ACTUAL FACTUAL PLAYER DEVELOPMENT. 

Clearly, whether you view all of those puppies as cannon fodder in some Stephen A Scrotum Scraper, or as evidence of a genuine youth movement, any way you slice it, we have a genuine developmental at play for the first time, seemingly, since man first walked erect. 

DAMN. 

And considering the degree to which THIBS totally transformed our defensive culture, I am not terribly concerned about the defensive evolution of Evan Fournier. 

I can hardly wait for SUMMER LEAGUE. 
Title: Why Did Fournier Sign On? DUH?
Post by: chipstern on August 03, 2021, 04:37:19 PM
“I enjoy pressure, I enjoy the spotlight,’’ Fournier said after the Tuesday [Olympics] victory, hours after signing with the Knicks at the beginning of free agency Monday. “They had a good season and they had a really good spot open. I thought I could help. God, it’s freaking New York. You want to be part of something big, you want to have pressure, you want to be a guy that competes every night.”
Title: Re: Stability, Chemistry, Consistency
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 03, 2021, 04:45:58 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 03, 2021, 03:48:55 PM
COLOR CHIP HAPPY

Mitch Noel [Sims]
Randle Obi Taj [Simms]
Fournier Burks Knox
RJ Grimes Quickley
Rose Vildoza McBride [Jokubaitis]

I tell you what. 

Rose, WWW, Aller, Perry, Perrin

Thibs, Bryant, Payne

For the first time in my adult life, I have genuine confidence in the Knicks management and coaching

Are we a championship contender?

NO. 

But we are a a competitive team a playoff aspirations and a maturing culture, and as the Hawks proved, once you get into the final scrum, anything is possible. 

(https://cdn-media.theathletic.com/cdn-cgi/image/fit=cover,width=700,height=466/MIn8y8c6pZcw_MIn8y8c6pZcw_3cXqNZpMR9jx_original_1440x960.jpg)

Hey, the East is TOUGH and just got tougher. 

BoD's critique of Fournier is not unfair. 

But there's the thing. 

As per the money he is getting? 

It was enough to get the Celtics to fold up shop.  Timmy Hardaway money [and on Timmy's third contract, I believe he has earned it, as he kept growing]. 

Fournier will be 29 by opening day. 

He has prototypical size and length as a 6'7" NBA wing, Knox is 6'7".  Burks and RJ are 6'6"

Bullock is a better man on man lock up defender for sure, and statistically, a better 3 point and FT shooter. 

But Bullock's strength as a three point shooter, is as a catch and shoot.  How many two pointers do you recall him making last season?  And he does not get to the FT line very often.  On Dallas, spotting up with Timmy waiting for a squirt from Docic's tit, he ought to be in hog heaven. 

Fournier is far superior as an all around scorer.  Unlike Bullock, he can create his own shot, off the dribble, the penetration, in the mid and long range game.  Fournier and Burks and RJ all have shown a gift for getting to the rack, getting and converting more free throws, which is very much a Derrick Rose/THIBS modus operandi. 

Fournier converts like 80% of his FTs, has shown himself capable of knocking down 17-20 points a night.  He is also good for 3 boards and 3 assists and 1 steal a night.   

AGAIN, Fournier, Burks, Rose all can create their own offense.  Bullock is most effective as a spot up shooter. 

You better believe that THIBS was pulling for FOURNIER, and he fucking loved Reggie Bullock. 

The addition of Fournier, the re-upping of Rose, Noel, Burks and Gibson, the subtraction of Payton and Ntilikina, the drafting of Grimes, Jokubaitis and McBride, the signing of Vildoza, and the reach our to Sims & Simms, bespeaks THIBS' interest in shooting, bigger wings who can create their own offense, PGs who can shoot and run the pick and roll, and get to the rack and finish and convert from the charity stripe. 

Sims & Simms look like Westchester 2-way contracts, good for 50 games with the big boys. Jericho looks to have enough upside to justify cutting loose Pelle.  Epic Hops, defensive presence and a handsome academic soul to boot.  Jokubaitis is a PLAYA, and I really look forward to seeing him in summer league.  He has opt out provisions, and even after a year or two of seasoning on Euroleague powerhouse Barcelona he will still only be 22. 

Grimes and McBride are DAWGS.  Great three point shooters and fierce defenders.  Vildoza has been up and down in the Olympics, but also defends, is adept at penetrating and the pick and roll, a wily passer, and when not pressing, a good three point shooter.  Some aspects of his game remind me of Rose, others of Quickley. 

Having Noel and Sims [and Taj AND Obi] to push Mitchell can only give us more quality depth, defense and fouls to give.  No reason Obi cannot evolve as a hybird PF-C like kindly Uncle Taj. 

Was watching a replay of our first win of the season when we put whooping on the Bucks [who later in the season, when more in sync, fucking nuked us], and it was a revelation how well Mitchell played, was able to intermittently frustrate Giannis, and what a great opening run Burks was on before hurting his ankle.  Also, great games from the dearly departed and eternally inconsistent, Elfrid and Frank. 

I'm rambling. 



No

No

No....

Burks behind RJ
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 03, 2021, 05:52:21 PM
I'm not sure what the Bulls are doing.   Strange mix of players and no draft first round picks.   Went all-in for Ball, Vucevic and DeRozan.   Meh...
Title: Earth To Facil
Post by: chipstern on August 03, 2021, 06:04:43 PM
Guess What Other Shoe Just Dropped? 

Adrian Wojnarowski: Free agent guard Kendrick Nunn has agreed to a two-year deal with the Los Angeles Lakers, source tells ESPN. Deal includes a player option. Nunn turned down significantly more money to chase a title with the Lakers.

Shams Charania: Kendrick Nunn has agreed to a two-year, $10M deal with the Lakers, his agent Adam Pensack tells @TheAthletic @Stadium. – via Twitter ShamsCharania

Shams Charania: Nunn’s deal has a player option in Year 2. He turned down more money with the Knicks and other teams to join the Lakers. – via Twitter ShamsCharania

KAM

Bobby Marks: A ton for work still left to do with Chicago even after adding Lonzo, Caruso and now DeRozan. 8 players under contract Besides bird rights on Markkanen, vet minimum exception is available.

I like these additions.  MEH might be a little strong. 
Title: Re: Earth To Facil
Post by: chipstern on August 03, 2021, 06:13:53 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 03, 2021, 06:04:43 PM
Guess What Other Shoe Just Dropped? 

Adrian Wojnarowski: Free agent guard Kendrick Nunn has agreed to a two-year deal with the Los Angeles Lakers, source tells ESPN. Deal includes a player option. Nunn turned down significantly more money to chase a title with the Lakers.

Shams Charania: Kendrick Nunn has agreed to a two-year, $10M deal with the Lakers, his agent Adam Pensack tells @TheAthletic @Stadium. – via Twitter ShamsCharania

Shams Charania: Nunn’s deal has a player option in Year 2. He turned down more money with the Knicks and other teams to join the Lakers. – via Twitter ShamsCharania

KAM

Bobby Marks: A ton for work still left to do with Chicago even after adding Lonzo, Caruso and now DeRozan. 8 players under contract Besides bird rights on Markkanen, vet minimum exception is available.

I like these additions.  MEH might be a little strong.

Having said THAT

Chris Haynes: It’s a three-year, $85 million fully guaranteed deal for DeMar DeRozan negotiated by Aaron Goodwin of @GoodwinSports

Adrian Wojnarowski: The Bulls are sending the Spurs Thad Young, Al-Farouq Aminu and picks in the deal, source tells ESPN.

That is really fucking over the top. 

Makes our deal for Evan Fournier look like skinflintery.  And I really love DeRozan. 

Apparently DD was not going home to Los Angeles for vets minimum. 

ADDITONALLY

Adrian Wojnarowski: The Bulls are sending a future first-round pick that will convey no sooner than 2025, source tells ESPN. The Bulls will also send a 2022 second-round pick via the Lakers and Bulls’ own 2025 second-round pick, source tells ESPN.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 03, 2021, 06:26:11 PM
Knicks will still make one pivotal deal.

Dare I say with Burks and Fournier aboard and a question on his future $$ value RJ Barrett move not outlandish.
Title: Re: Earth To Facil
Post by: Kam on August 03, 2021, 06:37:12 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 03, 2021, 06:13:53 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 03, 2021, 06:04:43 PM
Guess What Other Shoe Just Dropped? 

Adrian Wojnarowski: Free agent guard Kendrick Nunn has agreed to a two-year deal with the Los Angeles Lakers, source tells ESPN. Deal includes a player option. Nunn turned down significantly more money to chase a title with the Lakers.

Shams Charania: Kendrick Nunn has agreed to a two-year, $10M deal with the Lakers, his agent Adam Pensack tells @TheAthletic @Stadium. – via Twitter ShamsCharania

Shams Charania: Nunn’s deal has a player option in Year 2. He turned down more money with the Knicks and other teams to join the Lakers. – via Twitter ShamsCharania

KAM

Bobby Marks: A ton for work still left to do with Chicago even after adding Lonzo, Caruso and now DeRozan. 8 players under contract Besides bird rights on Markkanen, vet minimum exception is available.

I like these additions.  MEH might be a little strong.

Having said THAT

Chris Haynes: It’s a three-year, $85 million fully guaranteed deal for DeMar DeRozan negotiated by Aaron Goodwin of @GoodwinSports

Adrian Wojnarowski: The Bulls are sending the Spurs Thad Young, Al-Farouq Aminu and picks in the deal, source tells ESPN.

That is really fucking over the top. 

Makes our deal for Evan Fournier look like skinflintery.  And I really love DeRozan. 

Apparently DD was not going home to Los Angeles for vets minimum. 

ADDITONALLY

Adrian Wojnarowski: The Bulls are sending a future first-round pick that will convey no sooner than 2025, source tells ESPN. The Bulls will also send a 2022 second-round pick via the Lakers and Bulls’ own 2025 second-round pick, source tells ESPN.

Yeah the Bulls are like the bizarro Knicks.  We have nobody paid more than 19.8 million.  Bulls have four guys earning more than 19.5 million.  We have draft picks.  They don't.  We made the playoffs.  They didn't.   I like our approach much more.  They feel like the Isiah Knicks. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on August 03, 2021, 06:41:08 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on August 03, 2021, 06:26:11 PM
Knicks will still make one pivotal deal.

Dare I say with Burks and Fournier aboard and a question on his future $$ value RJ Barrett move not outlandish.

Surely possible — that's why you stock up on talent — but let's save RJ for the Lillard/Zion type stuff, not the Sexton type stuff. Personally happy to enjoy the ride as he goes and grows. Been good so far.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 03, 2021, 07:13:11 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on August 03, 2021, 06:41:08 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on August 03, 2021, 06:26:11 PM
Knicks will still make one pivotal deal.

Dare I say with Burks and Fournier aboard and a question on his future $$ value RJ Barrett move not outlandish.

Surely possible — that's why you stock up on talent — but let's save RJ for the Lillard/Zion type stuff, not the Sexton type stuff. Personally happy to enjoy the ride as he goes and grows. Been good so far.

Sorry, but that projection is ABSURD.

RJ BARRETT is a worker bee and an energizer bunny, all of fucking 21, and on course to be Thibs' second coming of Jimmy Bulter. 

Who'd have thought Kiid would be in alignment with Terminal Dipshit, Stephen A. Smith.

"Like a dull knife, keep on cutting, just talking loud, and saying nothing." 

PS: Kam. The Isiah BULLS.  Nicely played, dude. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on August 03, 2021, 07:18:02 PM
Your monthly reminder, Jimmy Butler became Jimmy Butler around age 26. Good things take time and are worth the wait.


*** that said, the greatest crunch time scorer of the last decade comes on the market you best be all ears at least.
Title: Re: Earth To Facil
Post by: facilitatorn on August 03, 2021, 07:26:27 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 03, 2021, 06:04:43 PM
Guess What Other Shoe Just Dropped? 

Adrian Wojnarowski: Free agent guard Kendrick Nunn has agreed to a two-year deal with the Los Angeles Lakers, source tells ESPN. Deal includes a player option. Nunn turned down significantly more money to chase a title with the Lakers.

Shams Charania: Kendrick Nunn has agreed to a two-year, $10M deal with the Lakers, his agent Adam Pensack tells @TheAthletic @Stadium. – via Twitter ShamsCharania

Shams Charania: Nunn’s deal has a player option in Year 2. He turned down more money with the Knicks and other teams to join the Lakers. – via Twitter ShamsCharania

KAM

Bobby Marks: A ton for work still left to do with Chicago even after adding Lonzo, Caruso and now DeRozan. 8 players under contract Besides bird rights on Markkanen, vet minimum exception is available.

I like these additions.  MEH might be a little strong.

THT back to lakers for Noel money with the last year a player’s option.

The available talent pool is drying up.

Mitch Noel Sims
Randle Obi Taj
Fournier Burks Knox
RJ Grimes Quickley
Rose Vildoza McBride

Simms ???

I’m happy to call this the crew and get to work.
Title: PS
Post by: chipstern on August 03, 2021, 07:26:55 PM
The Woh info on the Knicks offering Kendrick Nunn fatter money but taking less to be a Laker, was interesting, no? 

I remember him being cited as a FA target.  Plus 90% FT shooter, and up around .380% from trey. 

Sure the Knicks gave it the old college try. 

Would've been a great pickup. 

Dennis Schroeder turned down a big contract from the Lakers.  Not rich enough. 

Wants $25 million.  Much as Oladipo turned down 2 x 25 from the Rockets.  I remember how at the trading deadline, motherfuckers were lambasting Leon for not pulling off this BIG TRADE just waiting to be had. 

"Those whom the Gods seek to destroy, they first make mad." 

Title: Facil
Post by: chipstern on August 03, 2021, 07:29:38 PM
Lakers running a geriatric ward of vet minimum types, but Malik Monk, THT, Nunn?

Nice sniper running buddies for Westbrook. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 03, 2021, 07:35:43 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on August 03, 2021, 07:18:02 PM
Your monthly reminder, Jimmy Butler became Jimmy Butler around age 26. Good things take time and are worth the wait.


*** that said, the greatest crunch time scorer of the last decade comes on the market you best be all ears at least.

Fair enough.

Still, be careful what you wish for. 

Jimmy made the leap in season 3, and the BIG LEAP in season 4, when he was 25. 

RJ wants to be great, and wants to be a Knick. 

Sorry, NOT FOR SALE. 

Vaccaro of the POST leading the MEH contingent.  Like, IS THAT ALL THERE IS LEON? 

Re-upping our key core players from only the second winning season playoff appearance in 20 years, and Mike is underwhelmed?

Epic dipshittery. 

Or as Evan Fournier so aptly put it.

'It’s freaking New York."

Title: Evan VS. Luka
Post by: chipstern on August 03, 2021, 08:42:07 PM
Thursday evening at 7:00 PM

Anyone have an idea what channel that might be on, Spectrum Cable upper Manhattan? 
Title: Hmmmm
Post by: chipstern on August 03, 2021, 08:56:09 PM
There was a point during free agency where New York and Dallas were interested in exploring a sign-and-trade that would send Reggie Bullock to Dallas, SNY has learned. It’s unclear if the sign-and-trade possibility was pursued/has been pursued after Bullock committed to the Mavericks. – via SportsNet New York
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 03, 2021, 09:05:45 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 03, 2021, 07:35:43 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on August 03, 2021, 07:18:02 PM
Your monthly reminder, Jimmy Butler became Jimmy Butler around age 26. Good things take time and are worth the wait.


*** that said, the greatest crunch time scorer of the last decade comes on the market you best be all ears at least.

Fair enough.

Still, be careful what you wish for. 

Jimmy made the leap in season 3, and the BIG LEAP in season 4, when he was 25. 

RJ wants to be great, and wants to be a Knick. 

Sorry, NOT FOR SALE. 

Vaccaro of the POST leading the MEH contingent.  Like, IS THAT ALL THERE IS LEON? 

Re-upping our key core players from only the second winning season playoff appearance in 20 years, and Mike is underwhelmed?

Epic dipshittery. 

Or as Evan Fournier so aptly put it.

'It’s freaking New York."

Also teams that want to take leaps and have money go after the core pieces of overachieving teams every free agency period. Keeping our guys at at or near market rates was no given and is in and of itself an achievement.

Evan is a cherry on top.

Randle, RJ, Evan, Rose and Mitch in the dunker’s spot or heading there… who do you double off?
Title: Once Again...
Post by: chipstern on August 03, 2021, 09:27:31 PM
We've had only two winning seasons and two playoff appearances since Larry Johnson said OUCH. 

Leon brought back Taj, Derrick, Alec, Nerlens and added Evan to that winning core and mothefuckers are going, is that all there is, we're going backwards.  Where's our PG?

PG by committee, chaired by Derrick Rose, with IQ and Deuce McBride, and possibly Vildoza sharing the workload and being schooled by our ancient mariner. 

I was going to suggest George Hill, who was just waived by Philly, but was immediately gobbled up by the Bucks.  And how about Ish Smith?  Sorry, he's a Hornet. 

IF WE KEEP A ROSTER SPOT OPEN, and remain patient, who knows that low hanging fruit might manifest. 

PS: I was thinking, Dennis Schroeder for 25 million is a joke.  For our remaining 8 million on a one year deal with a player's option in the second, like Burks and Noel?  Ah, never you mind.  With the ego that is keeping him unemployed at the moment, he might consider that an insult.  Not the makings of a good team mate.  Hell, I'd rather have Theo Pinson/Jared Harper. 

PPS: Deuce McBride is a DAWG.  Looking forward to McBride and Quickley going at each other in practice, and giving us a small ball three guard unit with Quentin.  Remember how Knicks fans freaked when IQ had his coming out game?  McBride is going to make some ass clowns eat crow sashimi.  He has a 6'9" wingspan and enormous hands, and he is one harassing motherfucker.  I just watched a video of him pick Cade Cunningham's pocket and beat him down the floor for a jam...then stealing a pass on the very next possession.  If one could combine Charlie Ward with Immanuel Quickley, and have him schooled by Derrick Rose, that might constitute something passing for A FUCKING POINT GUARD. 

PPPS: Here a clip of Deuce picking Cade Cunningham's pocket and then beating him down court for a jam, followed up by intercepting a pass on the very next possession.  https://dailyknicks.com/2021/08/01/new-york-knicks-miles-mcbride-steal-nba-draft/ (https://dailyknicks.com/2021/08/01/new-york-knicks-miles-mcbride-steal-nba-draft/)

When Miles Davis was looking to constitute his second great of the 1960s after Jimmy Cobb, Paul Chamber and Wynton Kelly left to form a trio, Miles went scouting drummers, and he took along the drummer from his first great quintet of the 50s, PHILLY JOE JONES.  One night they heard a 17 year old TONY WILLIAMS in a club.  Turned to Miles, pointed his finger at the kid, and said, "HIM."

Thibs came away from Deuce McBride's workout and said to Leon, "HIM." The fact that we converted the Pistons' #32 pick from the Morris trade into McBride at 36, preceded by Rokas at 34, is some pretty hard core horse trading. 
Title: Summer League
Post by: chipstern on August 03, 2021, 09:58:48 PM
New York Knicks Summer League Schedule

Sunday, August 8 vs. Toronto - 4:30 PM EST on ESPN2

Wednesday, August 10 at LA Lakers - 10:00 PM EST on ESPN2

Friday, August 13 at Detroit - 8:00 PM EST on NBA TV

Saturday, August 14 - 8:00 PM EST on ESPN2

The team will also play a fifth game on either Monday, August 16 or Tuesday, August 17.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 03, 2021, 11:08:55 PM
Re-upping our key core players from only the second winning season playoff appearance in 20 years, and Mike is underwhelmed?


Why I said...

another deal coming
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 03, 2021, 11:16:26 PM
Bill Simmons
@BillSimmons

Aug 2
The Pelicans have totally mangled the last two years and are fully on course to lose Zion some day, agent John Koktostin of @CAA tells @ringer
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 03, 2021, 11:23:45 PM
AND they totally misuse Zion.  Leads to a great player like BALL wishing to leave since he has to defer.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 03, 2021, 11:25:12 PM
So...

Knicks need backcourt talent and we are critiquing Bulls for adding Ball and DeRozen?

heh
Title: Last season stats
Post by: Kam on August 03, 2021, 11:54:27 PM
Player1: 12 pts 7 assists 6 rebounds 1.5 stls in 32 mpg
Player2: 10 pts 7 assists 5 rebounds 1.5 stls in 28 mpg

Player 1 signed for 4yrs 85 mill in a sign and trade costing players and a 2nd
Player 2 is unsigned

Player 1 is Lonzo Ball
Player 2 is Elfrid Payton
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 04, 2021, 12:11:20 AM
Recency and trajectory counts. It still remains to be seen if Lonzo is viable in a playoff series. We know that pretty categorically about Elf now.

Curious to see who is more step in ready out of Duce and LV.

With iSO capable wings galore now, the role of the young shrimps on the roster can be simplified for the minutes they play with or behind Rose.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 04, 2021, 01:10:22 AM
SL underway. Grizz spank half the Jazz.

Patton looked good for Utah. Everyone looked good for the Grizz.

I like us sitting with a solid roster, a bit of cash, and potentially a spot or two at this stage. It sets us up to be third party on contractually problematic transactions other teams might be motivated to make.

If it doesn’t happen, I still like what we’re bringing to the table.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 04, 2021, 02:46:44 AM
Subtractions: Bullock Elfrid Frank Pelle

Additions: Fournier Vildoza Grimes McBride Sims

Yes we had Luca last year, but he never suited up, so I don’t count it. He’s here now.

There’s good competition at the margins and up-and-comers all over to keep incumbents on their toes.

I love that our young guys got in NT work this summer in the US & Canada and that Evan is having a nice Olympic run.

We can put a lot more time in this upcoming camp putting in a crisp and effective offense which would actually help our defense improve more than just about anything else we could do.

———

Also curious to see what a full Thibs/Kenny Payne off-season has done to Toppin and Knox. There is definitely some leveling up potential on that front probably more growth than we’ll see from RJ and Quickley who seem closer to fully baked for the most part.
Title: Please welcome....
Post by: lesterluv on August 04, 2021, 10:34:20 AM
Kemba Walker!


https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1422920447256141824

What's not to love?



** OK, 3-14 shooting once-in-awhile, but I'm still all in!
*** Career high 90% from the line last year, can ya feel it?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 04, 2021, 10:34:56 AM
Kemba Walker!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on August 04, 2021, 10:53:50 AM
Holy fuck!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 04, 2021, 11:31:01 AM
So we are paying Kemba 8 mil.  And it looks like we are done.

Kemba and Evan are a clear upgrade from Elfrid and Reggie.

The criticism is that this team has used its cap space and has a 2nd round ceiling.

But to that I say, so what?  Roster construction right now might say 2nd round ceiling, but:

--- A) If RJ improves like we think he will continue to improve and there's no reason to say he won't

AND

--- B) we make a trade for another high caliber player to create a three headed monster (RJ, Randle, PlayerX)

Then the ceiling changes.  We are basically some internal improvement and ONE PLAYER away from being a real contender.

That's the glass half full perspective.

Again the glass half empty perspective we all know... blah blah blah ... lolKnicks ... washed up PG. ... cap space used on a 2nd round playoff ceiling

So we know some Knicks fans will still be unhappy until we get there.  They need to see the glass full before they'll drink.  That's fine.

I like watching the glass fill up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on August 04, 2021, 11:39:05 AM
Me 2. We are stocked and so flexi. Still got the picks. All those 3-year contracts are team option 3rd. Fully ready to play if any big dogs end up in play. Best mgmt in the league. Fun to watch with room to grow.  Last year I had to FFWD through the first six minutes of each game to get through the Elfrid piece. No more! Bring it on!

** That 6-10 prediction? We'll see about that. Boston imploded last year. We'll see who implodes this year. And stays healthy. We're a continuity team. Continuity teams often come out of the gate fast. Speaking of continuity teams. I like the Jazz offseason. Rudy Gay a very sweet pickup. Just got to keep their backcourt healthy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 04, 2021, 11:46:27 AM
Knicks brass has BRASS!

Kept Walker talk quiet all this time.  Not one of these fucks had the scoop or even the scenario in their heads.

Heh

Second round ceiling?  Stopppp...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 04, 2021, 11:58:02 AM
"Knicks are now done"

So which player under contract and with a non contender might you want for this roster?

Careful assuming things.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 04, 2021, 12:27:50 PM
So Sims & Simms as two-ways.

Mitch Noel Taj
Randle Obi Knox
Fournier Burks Grimes
RJ Quickley Vildoza
Walker Rose McBride

That’s juicy. I’ll take it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 04, 2021, 12:30:24 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on August 04, 2021, 11:58:02 AM
"Knicks are now done"

So which player under contract and with a non contender might you want for this roster?

Careful assuming things.

There's no more roster spots. 
Cap room has been used. 
Newly signed players can't be traded with other assets for 60 days. 
So it's a good bet they're done making huge moves unless you're signing another buyout guy to a minimum deal and waiving someone.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 04, 2021, 12:35:34 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 04, 2021, 12:27:50 PM
So Sims & Simms as two-ways.

Mitch Noel Taj
Randle Obi Knox
Fournier Burks Grimes
RJ Quickley Vildoza
Walker Rose McBride

That’s juicy. I’ll take it.

In the playoffs had we had a healthy Mitch and two other starters that must be guarded at all times in Walker and Fournier I dare say Randle and RJ would've had a much easier time creating offense.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 04, 2021, 12:40:45 PM
That’s for damn sure. Adult supervision all the way.

On reflection, I think we start Rose and spell him with Walker, Rose provides the D and already has the coach-player ESP, and the MVP on the shelf plus incumbency gives him the rank.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 04, 2021, 12:42:09 PM
Will we see minutes for a small ball lineup of Randle Barrett Fournier Walker and Rose?
Title: Re: Please welcome....
Post by: chipstern on August 04, 2021, 12:55:41 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on August 04, 2021, 10:34:20 AM
Kemba Walker!


https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1422920447256141824

What's not to love?



** OK, 3-14 shooting once-in-awhile, but I'm still all in!
*** Career high 90% from the line last year, can ya feel it?

The Law Firm Of Rose, Aller & Perry

DAMN. 

And whom did we exchange the #32 pick for 34 & 36 with?

SUDDEN SAM PRESTI OF OKC. 

Perry had a relationship with him going back to the Melo Trade, where we took Kanter's contract off his hands + McDermott and the #36 pick for Melo. 

Now all of those moves at #19 and 21, the #1 ice job with Carolina and the #21 to 25 with Clippers, and the 32 flip for 34 and 36 with OKC, passing on Lonzo, MAKE FUCKING SENSE. 

Plus, with all due respect to Brother Bankshot, FUCKING THE CELTICS TWICE IN A FORTNIGHT, as Tight Lipped Leon revels in his use of the Waiver Wire and channels his Inner Red Auerbach. 

Fuck ME.
Title: DAMN
Post by: chipstern on August 04, 2021, 01:04:45 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 04, 2021, 12:27:50 PM
So Sims & Simms as two-ways.

Mitch Noel Taj
Randle Obi Knox
Fournier Burks Grimes
RJ Quickley Vildoza
Walker Rose McBride

That’s juicy. I’ll take it.

This takes all the pressure off of our rooks and yute in progress. 

Probably Taj and Vildoza in street clothes some nights, Kemba or Derrick on others.  We can mange minutes for Julius and RJ and Evan so Thibs isn't playing them 32-40 a might. 

No Stephen A. Trades.  No Collin Sexton max contracts.  IQ & Deuce gets to learn the ropes from Derrick & Kemba.

Let's see if Mike Vaccarro progress from MEH to YEAH. 

DAMN. 

Wotta way to wake up. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 04, 2021, 01:41:37 PM
Interesting competition between Quickley, Grimes, McBride, and Vildoza for minutes with Walker behind RJ and Rose. Everything else seems pretty well settled if everyone is healthy.

Based on core rotation strength, I think we’re pretty firmly in the 4-8 conversation as we’re not the only team that got better, but our serious depth and continuity combined with coaching acumen might vault us as high as third in the East.

Title: Re: Please welcome....
Post by: Kam on August 04, 2021, 01:52:12 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 04, 2021, 12:55:41 PM

Plus, with all due respect to Brother Bankshot, FUCKING THE CELTICS TWICE IN A FORTNIGHT, as Tight Lipped Leon revels in his use of the Waiver Wire and channels his Inner Red Auerbach. 



Jeremy Cohen
@TheCohencidence

The Celtics essentially traded a 1st round pick, two 2nd round picks, and took on Al Horford's contract for Kemba Walker and Evan Fournier to walk to the Knicks for cap space
Title: Re: Please welcome....
Post by: chipstern on August 04, 2021, 02:52:48 PM
Quote from: Kam on August 04, 2021, 01:52:12 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 04, 2021, 12:55:41 PM

Plus, with all due respect to Brother Bankshot, FUCKING THE CELTICS TWICE IN A FORTNIGHT, as Tight Lipped Leon revels in his use of the Waiver Wire and channels his Inner Red Auerbach. 



Jeremy Cohen
@TheCohencidence

The Celtics essentially traded a 1st round pick, two 2nd round picks, and took on Al Horford's contract for Kemba Walker and Evan Fournier to walk to the Knicks for cap space

Don't forget that they let Terry Rozier walk to the Hornets sign Kemba, 

And turned down Myles Turner and Doug McDermott to sign and trade Hayward. and basically got bumpkus from the Hornets. 

And, this will make the Kamster happy, they just replaced Fournier with Enes Kanter. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 04, 2021, 03:01:54 PM
A nice move.  Hopefully Kemba remains ambulatory.  Which will help Rose stay healthy.
Interesting that the Knix exchanged defense (Elf/Bullocks) for offense.
Scoring was often a problem last year.  Knix might move towards average on both ends.

Only need 20 mpg +/- 5 from Kemba and Rose.
Start Kemba?  Rose - IQ - Burks all played well off each other last year.
Nice bench unit.  A very deep team.
Not going to be minutes for Grimes and McBride (or Knox).
But they can learn and be ready in case of injuries.
Ask Vildoza to stay overseas for now.

With Kemba starting, Knix would have solid shooting around Mitch/Noel.
Hopefully Thibs doesn't run Randle & RJB into the ground again.
Get ObiT some run. 
Deep teams are fun to watch, and ready for any injuries.
Title: Re: Please welcome....
Post by: bankshot1 on August 04, 2021, 04:29:56 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 04, 2021, 02:52:48 PM
Quote from: Kam on August 04, 2021, 01:52:12 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 04, 2021, 12:55:41 PM

Plus, with all due respect to Brother Bankshot, FUCKING THE CELTICS TWICE IN A FORTNIGHT, as Tight Lipped Leon revels in his use of the Waiver Wire and channels his Inner Red Auerbach. 



Jeremy Cohen
@TheCohencidence

The Celtics essentially traded a 1st round pick, two 2nd round picks, and took on Al Horford's contract for Kemba Walker and Evan Fournier to walk to the Knicks for cap space

Don't forget that they let Terry Rozier walk to the Hornets sign Kemba, 

And turned down Myles Turner and Doug McDermott to sign and trade Hayward. and basically got bumpkus from the Hornets. 

And, this will make the Kamster happy, they just replaced Fournier with Enes Kanter.

You can never get enough due respect.

back atcha Chip

Kemba was broken late in the bubble year and went from all-star to couldn't play. His knees might get better, but watching him get beaten consistently on D, and not be able to accelerate or jump, was painful to watch. And he had to sit/play/sit, it wasn't happening. The had to get rid of him

I think Brads swap with OKC for Al and the #16 saved the Celts about $30 million and they have a bench full of recent 1st rounders (TL, Grant W, Romeo, Nesmith, Pritch) that need a normal year and some playing time.

Fournier wanted to resign but the Celts didn't want to re-up for 3-4 yrs at $18m per, and signed Josh Rich as Fournier insurance.

Brad's play seems to be let a lot of contracts run-off next year and have a lot of cap space for presumably Beal.

We'll see.

They still need a PG, orchestrator for the offense (I think Langford may get a shot with Smart)  Celts should be ok and fun to watch this year as hopefully they get back to playing D again and the the young guys give Tatum and Brown some support.

IMO there are no super teams in the East, Nets Bucks 76ers all look beatable in a series.

Enjoy your new guards

Edit Fournier on the Celts

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/08/03/sports/evan-fournier-preferred-re-sign-with-celtics-we-couldnt-get-deal-done-so-he-chose-knicks/ (https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/08/03/sports/evan-fournier-preferred-re-sign-with-celtics-we-couldnt-get-deal-done-so-he-chose-knicks/)

SAITAMA, Japan — As if the Celtics faithful aren’t frustrated enough about the team’s lack of activity in free agency, newest New York Knicks signee Evan Fournier said Tuesday that his first intention had been to re-sign with Boston.


“That was my priority going into the summer,” he said. “Because I knew the place. I talked to Brad [Stevens] and we couldn’t get a deal done, obviously. But I had my options. It wasn’t necessarily Boston only, but I was more inclined to sign there because they traded for me and I felt good while I was there.
Title: Rumor ville and conjecture city
Post by: Kam on August 04, 2021, 06:26:42 PM
Jeremy Cohen
@TheCohencidence
ThreadOK, I have a theory. I don't know if the Knicks will wind up able to do it, but the math checks out.

You know the report of a potential Reggie Bullock S&T? It's possible that it was for Jalen Brunson but I don't think it was. I think the Knicks are trying to create a TPE (1/9)
5:45 PM ·
Reply

Jeremy Cohen
@TheCohencidence
·
35m
Replying to
@TheCohencidence
For those who don't know, a Traded Player Exception (TPE) is a way for over-the-cap teams to exceed the salary cap. Last year, Boston "traded" Gordon Hayward into Charlotte's cap space and received a big TPE. They could then absorb salary without needing trades to match (2/9)
1
28

Jeremy Cohen
@TheCohencidence
·
33m
The Mavs are signing Bullock to 3/$30.5M, which is very close to signing for a three-year MLE. The Mavs are also gaining a $10.8M TPE for dumping Richardson into Boston's TPE. Signing Bullock via the MLE would still give the Mavs their TPE to use over the next 365 days (3/9)
1
25

Jeremy Cohen
@TheCohencidence
·
32m
TPEs can only be used for trades and S&Ts. Thus, the Bullock S&T rumor. Dallas may prefer to S&T Bullock into their TPE and then spend the MLE on someone like Schroder or Jackson or any player they believe they can sign and help. #acronyms

However, there's an issue... (4/9)

The Richardson trade hasn't been made official yet, so the Mavs don't actually have their TPE to use. Bullock's salary could slide right into that TPE, but with the TPE being held up because no trade has been finalized, the Mavs are likely stuck. This leads us to the Knicks (5/9)
5:50 PM · Aug 4, 2021·Twitter Web App
23
 Likes


Jeremy Cohen
@TheCohencidence
·
32m
Replying to
@TheCohencidence
You can't keep a TPE if you're under the cap. The Knicks will no longer be under the cap now that they're signing Kemba Walker. But in order to sign Kemba, they have to clear Bullock's cap hold. This could render a S&T pointless, unless the Knicks can get a 2nd round pick (6/9)
2
23

Jeremy Cohen
@TheCohencidence
·
30m
Or, the Knicks could do something else. They could keep Bullock's cap hold on the books + dump Kevin Knox's salary elsewhere (OKC?).

Knox's salary = $5.85M
Bullock's cap hold = $5.46M

They're similar. Too similar. Then factor in that Knox won't see PT in NY? No brainer (7/9)



Jeremy Cohen
@TheCohencidence
·
21m
Richardson trade with Boston finally goes through. Knicks dump Knox, keep Bullock's cap hold, sign all their free agents, and extend Rose with his EBR.

Now over the salary cap, the Knicks trade Bullock into the Mavs' TPE. It likely gives NY a TPE of $4.68M (8/9)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 04, 2021, 06:30:22 PM
Quote from: Kam on August 04, 2021, 06:26:42 PM
Jeremy Cohen
@TheCohencidence
ThreadOK, I have a theory. I don't know if the Knicks will wind up able to do it, but the math checks out.


Doesn't seem likely but was interesting to read
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 04, 2021, 10:48:44 PM
Quote from: Kam on August 04, 2021, 12:35:34 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 04, 2021, 12:27:50 PM
So Sims & Simms as two-ways.

Mitch Noel Taj
Randle Obi Knox
Fournier Burks Grimes
RJ Quickley Vildoza
Walker Rose McBride

That’s juicy. I’ll take it.

In the playoffs had we had a healthy Mitch and two other starters that must be guarded at all times in Walker and Fournier I dare say Randle and RJ would've had a much easier time creating offense.

Still fucking wrong.

Burks at the backup 2
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 05, 2021, 03:28:00 AM
I'd take Ball and Bullocks over Kemba and Fournier.
If we're paying Kemba $8M (?) then roughly $6M more or so for that pair.
Certainly better defense than what we got.
I'd also would have prefer Dinwiddie & RegBull over Kemba + Fournier.

I just think the PG position is key and would rather get talent and spend $$  there.  Ball could be the long term PG answer; while Dimwit is entering his prime.  I have Dimwiddie and Fournier as comparable players, just Spencer at a more important position.

I think Thibs wanted to go with Rose and didn't want another good but not great PG reducing Rose's minutes too much.  Kemba could work out, but also might break down.  Not sure his knees can take too much and his D is  hampered by his size and possible limited movement.

Overpaying Fournier (that's what FA is often about) was somewhat underwhelming.  The Kemba pickup a good save so Rose doesn't get ground down.   Don't know if Ball or Dimwiddie were genuine options, but don't see why one or both wouldn't have been interested in NYK.

Could run a poll

Which combo would you prefer:
Ball & Bullocks
Dimwiddie & Bullox
Kemba & Fournier

(maybe need to include the extra $$ involved)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 05, 2021, 03:55:38 AM
I don’t think we’re starting Kemba. He’s a shrimp with a degenerative arthritic knee. Better to use him as a microwave when he’s available and hope he’s ambulatory down the stretch. He’ll get better results with less wear and tear primarily facing second units. We’re paying Rose more so he can take the lumps.

The difference by which EF and Kemba are better offensively than Bullock and Ball is far greater than the fall off on the other end.

Expect Dinwiddie to be up and down this year and play essentially no D. Glad we have no part of that.

Yes, we’ll get no D from Kemba either which is part of why we should feed him a more limited role commensurate with his new salary where he can excel and really lift this team. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 05, 2021, 08:18:35 AM
Don't know what condition Kemba's condition is in.
Was thinking he might start a la Elf while Rose backs up and finishes.
Would keep Rose in the same role, playing with mostly the same combos.
Was pretty effective.
Title: We're gonna have to give Bo an extended 100 post
Post by: lesterluv on August 05, 2021, 09:48:57 AM
.... mourning period.

It's damn hard to see Reggie Bullock go after you finally get Reggie Bullock after a 50-year search for a Reggie Bullock.

*** hell no...loving the Fournier/Kemba combo .. happy as a clam we didn't extend 4 year contracts to either of those other PG guys..we are rocking, and if we're not, we can go out and get whoever the F we want cause we are FLEXI W SHORT EASILY MOVEABLE CONTRAX & PICKS TO BOOT or simply turn to our growing roster of rooks & young players

** poll results without poll
80% happy as pigs in shit
10 % think maybe Ball
9% think maybe Dimwiddie
1% never gonna get over the missing Bollock (it's hard when you lose one as a adult)

Ready for some of this? https://www.nba.com/magic/news/fournier-currently-best-nba-specific-clutch-category-20190303 (https://www.nba.com/magic/news/fournier-currently-best-nba-specific-clutch-category-20190303)  Can you guess who in the league has made the most shots this season in the final 10 seconds of games when there is a score differential of five points or less? Hoop, hoop, mf'er can hoop! Everybody on the floor can hoop! Imagine that! Now you would rather have 40% of the floor be guys who can't take the rock to the hole? For four years? Hole rhymes with LOL!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 05, 2021, 10:15:41 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 05, 2021, 08:18:35 AM
Don't know what condition Kemba's condition is in.
Was thinking he might start a la Elf while Rose backs up and finishes.
Would keep Rose in the same role, playing with mostly the same combos.
Was pretty effective.

over the final month of the 2020-21 regular season, Kemba Walker averaged:
28.1 points,
4.9 rebs,
4.0 dimes,
4.1 made 3PT's
while shooting over 50% from the floor and 43% from downtown.
Title: Julius Randle signed to an extension
Post by: Kam on August 05, 2021, 10:31:00 AM
Rough figures for the next 5 seasons

24mil
26mil
28mil
30mil
32mil
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on August 05, 2021, 10:48:24 AM
Does it get any better?
Team friendlier?
XMas in August.
Stick around for a bit why don't you Julius!


*** meanwhile our new boy rocked Slovenia for 23 points, 4-6 on 3's to send France on a trip to the GOLD MEDAL game & our old boy went 0-0-0-0-0 of course, but put SEVEN MINUTES OF CLAMPS on Luka, lol, lol, plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on August 05, 2021, 10:59:11 AM
Leon's vision coming into a little better focus -  keep the band together with a few tweaks for the sake of the offense...not a bad thing, esp. considering how most first Qs went last season...
Leon likes depth and continuity - now there's a concept...

lining up a bunch of fair market value two year contracts with a team option third year keeps flexibility and opportunity in place...
locking up Julius at quite the discount based on lots of good mojo seems like a real feat not accomplished  by a Knicks front office since the 90's...

of course the big issues are the knicked kneed duo of Walker & Rose...that's a season long concern...but the reality is most NBA teams experience impactful  injuries every season

other than overpaying for Noel (which may have something to do with Robinson's health - seems he was seen in a walking boot) color me  cautiously buoyant
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 05, 2021, 12:19:46 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 05, 2021, 03:28:00 AM
I'd take Ball and Bullocks over Kemba and Fournier.
If we're paying Kemba $8M (?) then roughly $6M more or so for that pair.
Certainly better defense than what we got.
I'd also would have prefer Dinwiddie & RegBull over Kemba + Fournier.

I just think the PG position is key and would rather get talent and spend $$  there.  Ball could be the long term PG answer; while Dimwit is entering his prime.  I have Dimwiddie and Fournier as comparable players, just Spencer at a more important position.

I think Thibs wanted to go with Rose and didn't want another good but not great PG reducing Rose's minutes too much.  Kemba could work out, but also might break down.  Not sure his knees can take too much and his D is  hampered by his size and possible limited movement.

Overpaying Fournier (that's what FA is often about) was somewhat underwhelming.  The Kemba pickup a good save so Rose doesn't get ground down.   Don't know if Ball or Dimwiddie were genuine options, but don't see why one or both wouldn't have been interested in NYK.

Could run a poll

Which combo would you prefer:
Ball & Bullocks
Dimwiddie & Bullox
Kemba & Fournier

(maybe need to include the extra $$ involved)

I think management views Rose on the court facilitating late in games.

If we had Rose/Dinwiddie or Rose/Ball the minutes get a little muddled

So the Rose signing occurred after we did due diligence on other point guards/ruled them out
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 05, 2021, 12:47:56 PM
A week ago, the Knicks had the No. 19 and No. 21 picks in the NBA Draft and over $50 million in cap space. In the span of six days, they turned that into a future first-round pick that’s almost certain to be worse than the No. 19 pick they traded for it, two low-upside, defense-first rookies (Quentin Grimes and Miles McBride) to sate Tom Thibodeau’s “hard-nosed” kink, and $183 million committed to Nerlens Noel, Alec Burks, Evan Fournier and Derrick Rose over the next four years.

Don’t let one playoff appearance and a fun Julius Randle resurgence distract you from the fact that no one, and I mean NO ONE, turns lemonade into lemons like the New York Knicks.

heh

Found this when searching for Lonzo/Bulls news


https://fansided.com/2021/08/03/lonzo-ball-knicks-bumbling-nba-free-agency-reactions/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on August 05, 2021, 01:00:54 PM
That is one stupid fucking article you posted.
We don't have a single dollar committed for four years let alone 183 mil.
In fact, in year three, all we have committed is $20 mil.

Friends don't let friends post dumb shit.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 05, 2021, 01:29:52 PM
Allright, JULIUS!!!!!

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2867441-julius-randle-knicks-agree-to-4-year-117m-contract-extension
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 05, 2021, 01:49:15 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 05, 2021, 03:28:00 AM
I'd take Ball and Bullocks over Kemba and Fournier.
If we're paying Kemba $8M (?) then roughly $6M more or so for that pair.
Certainly better defense than what we got.
I'd also would have prefer Dinwiddie & RegBull over Kemba + Fournier.

I just think the PG position is key and would rather get talent and spend $$  there.  Ball could be the long term PG answer; while Dimwit is entering his prime.  I have Dimwiddie and Fournier as comparable players, just Spencer at a more important position.

I think Thibs wanted to go with Rose and didn't want another good but not great PG reducing Rose's minutes too much.  Kemba could work out, but also might break down.  Not sure his knees can take too much and his D is  hampered by his size and possible limited movement.

Overpaying Fournier (that's what FA is often about) was somewhat underwhelming.  The Kemba pickup a good save so Rose doesn't get ground down.   Don't know if Ball or Dimwiddie were genuine options, but don't see why one or both wouldn't have been interested in NYK.

Could run a poll

Which combo would you prefer:
Ball & Bullocks
Dimwiddie & Bullox
Kemba & Fournier

(maybe need to include the extra $$ involved)

Kemba and Fournier
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 05, 2021, 01:54:34 PM
Interesting change from your Dinwiddie days, Chip.

Or do you, like me - love the addition of the white guy to our mix?

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 05, 2021, 01:57:08 PM
Re:  Ball

It hasn't been mentioned yet - but did PELS demand to get something in return affect the Knicks negotiations with Lonzo?

In other words - PELS:  We will match Knicks offer unless they give us something.  Then Knicks having little they wanted tos urrender and Pels were keen on (see:  Knox/Frank value low/low/low....)

A theory, is all.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on August 05, 2021, 02:30:06 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on August 05, 2021, 01:54:34 PM
Interesting change from your Dinwiddie days, Chip.

Or do you, like me - love the addition of the white guy to our mix?

heh

Half African white guy, lol, you rancid piece of peckerwood tripe

https://orlandomagicdaily.com/2018/08/04/evan-fournier-spent-last-two-summers-reconnecting-african-roots/ (https://orlandomagicdaily.com/2018/08/04/evan-fournier-spent-last-two-summers-reconnecting-african-roots/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 05, 2021, 02:41:34 PM
That makes sense. Fournier is way too cool to be a white guy. Knowing he’s got African roots makes me think it’s much more likely he lives up to his contract instead of pulling a Bargnani or a Love.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 05, 2021, 02:49:21 PM
Pelton:

Quote
Based on the maximum possible 20% raise, this deal guarantees him a starting salary of $23.8 million in 2022-23 with an additional $3.6 million in bonuses for a four-year total of $106 million guaranteed and up to $16 million in bonuses, with $10.6 million of those (for reaching the playoffs and making the All-Star team) currently treated as likely. So Randle's likely four-year salary, based on the NBA's calculations, is $117 million.

Noel was market value.

Randle was smart to extend coming off his career year.  And not have to worry about duplicating that, or getting injured.  Hopefully Julius is tasked with less and plays fewer minutes, both which would result in his stats dropping from last year.  The playoff debacle likely helped the Knix with the contract extension. 

Randle on a big 5 year contract.  FO directive to Thibs should be to keep Randle's minutes reasonable to avoid injury.  And to try to keep Julius fresh for 4Q's.  Leading the league in minutes should be a one-year aberration. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 05, 2021, 02:57:16 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on August 05, 2021, 02:30:06 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on August 05, 2021, 01:54:34 PM
Interesting change from your Dinwiddie days, Chip.

Or do you, like me - love the addition of the white guy to our mix?

heh

Half African white guy, lol, you rancid piece of peckerwood tripe

https://orlandomagicdaily.com/2018/08/04/evan-fournier-spent-last-two-summers-reconnecting-african-roots/ (https://orlandomagicdaily.com/2018/08/04/evan-fournier-spent-last-two-summers-reconnecting-african-roots/)

White African

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on August 05, 2021, 02:58:51 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on August 05, 2021, 02:57:16 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on August 05, 2021, 02:30:06 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on August 05, 2021, 01:54:34 PM
Interesting change from your Dinwiddie days, Chip.

Or do you, like me - love the addition of the white guy to our mix?

heh

Half African white guy, lol, you rancid piece of peckerwood tripe

https://orlandomagicdaily.com/2018/08/04/evan-fournier-spent-last-two-summers-reconnecting-african-roots/ (https://orlandomagicdaily.com/2018/08/04/evan-fournier-spent-last-two-summers-reconnecting-african-roots/)

White African

lmao..like your IQ 55 ass knows how he identifies? Or how moms identifies?


* It's not quite 3 o'clock yet...you can still get in one more head-fully-up-your-ass post before tea time if you just play to your season average

** and thanks for the pic dumb-fuck, I don't need to go to wikipedia photos as have been all over that country north to south and east to west, there's Arabs & Berbers & Touaregs & dark skinned folks & light skinned folks, and blue-eyed folks and green-eyed folks and brown-eyed folks but amazing thing, north to south east to west didn't meet one motherfucker as ass-clown-fuck stupid as you!

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 05, 2021, 03:12:42 PM
With his Algerian background, just think of him as a Muslim player who doesn’t recognize race. It makes him much easier to root for and a better representative of New York.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on August 05, 2021, 03:19:29 PM
There ya go, let's!

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EuNG2_LVoAMCAdv?format=jpg&name=medium)
French/Algerians_in_traditional_basketball costumes.jpg (111.48 kB, 800x477 -)
Title: The Race Card
Post by: chipstern on August 05, 2021, 03:54:02 PM
Only a dickless moron would give a damn about Fournier's genetic code. .

For the cost of one Dim Bulb or Ball Sack...for five years....

We got Kemba and Derrick, with Deuce, Luca, IQ and Roxas being nurtured long term.

Like both Lonzo and Spencer, but Leon's reasoning makes dollars and sense.

Marc Berman with a specious, stupid aside...as to how JULIUS MUST PROVE HE CAN ATTRACT A SUPERSTAR IN 2022.

PuhLEESE. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 05, 2021, 04:00:05 PM
Berman will be among the last to bury his focus on starphucking.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 05, 2021, 04:11:09 PM
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2946844-does-kemba-walker-make-new-york-knicks-elite-in-the-east (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2946844-does-kemba-walker-make-new-york-knicks-elite-in-the-east)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 05, 2021, 04:32:28 PM
All told - whiteness aside - I am not a big Fournier guy

Hope it works out
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 05, 2021, 04:36:53 PM
Watching France-Slovenia

Inquiring minds want to know:

Is Mustapha Fall related to Tacko?

Can any of these spare Slovenian get a summer league invite at least?

Why do Timofey and Nicolas remain so underrated?

Which foreign league will allow Frank to continue his career?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 05, 2021, 05:19:28 PM
Wow - GREAT basketball game.
Title: Starfucking
Post by: chipstern on August 05, 2021, 05:31:39 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 05, 2021, 04:00:05 PM
Berman will be among the last to bury his focus on starphucking.

Just before we signed Kemba, SpermMan Berman was still hocking Oladipo for God's sake.  How LAME is that? 

Star Fucking? 

SHINY OBJECTS? 

Leon Rose CLEARLY had any number of well thought out plans and pivots, Plan A, Plan B, Plan C. 

We tried to move up in the draft, and when that didn't work, we moved down. 

People are mocking the Knicks for accepting a TOP 18 protection from the Hornets on putting our #19 pick on ice in 2022, 2023, 2024. 

Well, Charlotte looks to be a playoff team, #1. 

Number Two, it's worth noting that in the past two drafts we copped Immanual Quickley AND Quentin Grimes at #25.  It's not always how low you draft, but how WELL.

Number Three.  Trading out of #19 till next season, and trading down #21 for #25 and a future #2, saved us what $2.4 in cap space, which paid for Taj Gibson. 

Trading #32 to OKC for #34 and #36 not only gave us Rokas and Deuce, but possibly [arguably]  engendered good will with Sudden Sam Presti, which led to Kemba appearing on our radar out of fucking nowhere. 

We can surely debate any number of moves the Knicks made, but for me, Commander in Chief Rose and his Joint Chiefs of Staff played things thoughtfully and sensibly.

Collin Sexton?  Dennis Schroeder?  Kelly Oubre? 

Very expensive shiny objects. 

Lonzo Ball?  Spencer Dimwiddie? 

Two faves of mine. 

Lonzo, four years x 85 million?  Spencer, three years 62 million?  Or Evan, three + fourth year option, 78 million? 

Or Derrick, two + third year option 43 million [roughly 14 million per, signed with Bird rights, which also saved us money] plus Kemba two years on a buyout at 8 million. 

So Rose + Walker for the combined money Ball or Dimwiddie would've cost.  And we spent THAT MONEY on Fournier. 

Debate among yourself. 

I believe Leon's guiding principles in going this way were maintaining SALARY FLEXIBILITY, TEAM CHEMISTRY and [vis a vis reupping Taj, Noel, Burks] CONTINUITY. 

How long has it been since we had any semblance of continuity?  Do not underestimate that when contemplating sexier signings, shinier objects. 

Did Thibs and Leon want to simply hand the keys to the car to Lonzo, let alone give up players/draft picks in a sign and trade?  Ball is a talent, and would surely have been an upgrade.  But the Knicks opted not to rock the boat, to sustain the continuity and leadership of Rose, and supplement him with Kemba Walker for fuck's sake.  WHO AMONGST US SAW That COMING?

Likewise, DimWoody, a spirited player, who reveled in trolling the Knicks, at 28, coming off of AC surgery? 

Both Rose AND Walker [post All-Star Game] have demonstrated that they can be very effective in MANAGED MINUTES.  Is it a calculated risk?  Damn right it is.  Are the Wizards rolling the dice on Spencer?  Sure are, and a good gamble it is.  Dimwiddie, Pope, Beal?  Nice rotation.  Beal AIN'T GOING ANYWHERE. 

And with Ball on the Bulls, Lavine is likely a keeper. 

So those moves make sense for the Wiz and Bulls going forward. 

Rose + Walker buys us two years of competitive veteran skill and leadership, on reasonable contracts, with the ability to nurture our PG Pups. 

I read where some "expert" felt like the Knicks over paid for Noel and Burks.  REALLY?  Both earned their raises, and Noel offers us Mitchell Insurance and showed he can carry the load, even if Capella did out muscle him and show his limitations.  But he has Thibs' faith, he improved immensely in his system...as did Burks...so

Noel-Rose-Burks-Gibson reups

Payton > Walker

Bullock > Fournier, Grimes

Ntilikina > McBride, Vildoza, Jokubaitis

And a cherry on top, the final shoe drop. 

Reupping Julius for four years at $117,000,000. 

Julius could've played out till next summer and squeezed the Knicks for $200,000,000. 

A) Wanted to remain a Knick

B) Wanted to allow the Knicks financial flex going forward to be able to wheel and deal and engage talent as it might manifest on the open market. 

Compare THIS, with the approach Carmelo took, which was to force a trade which caused the Knicks to sunder all of their young talent, plus two #1 and two #2 picks, and subsequently to press for a Max MAX which allowed the Knicks no flex to surround him with talent.  I grew to admire Carmelo as a Knick, but he came in as a douche and he left as a douche. 

SpermMan Berman in his piece on Julius reupping and giving the Knicks a hometown discount [$29 million/per is nevertheless, pretty fucking sweet] dropped this sack of shit...

THAT JULIUS MUST NOW PROVE HE CAN ATTRACT A SUPERSTAR. 

Fuck U. 

What Julius must prove...

* Is that he can sustain his leadership.

* Is that he can improve on 2020-2021. 

* Is that he learned from getting sandbagged by the Hawks in the playoffs.

Adding offensive players such as Walker and Fournier, and reupping Rose and Burks, suggests that THIBS looked at Julius's regular season ascension and his playoff struggles, and determined that we needed to adds players who CAN CREATE THEIR OWN OFFENSE, and allow Julius to avoid constant double teaming. 

So...

WHAT LEON ROSE & THIBS wrought, might not seem the sexiest approach, but for this Knicks fan, it represents the most thoughtfully calculated and executed. 

We are now genuinely fifteen deep, with a genuinely serious 20-year old PG prospect on ice in Europe, a pair of genuinely serious young PG prospects on our roster, a pair of potentially solid two-way contract players to nurture in Westchester, solid vets at reasonable/tradeable rates, a FA signing who offers us offensive firepower at the 3-Spot [currently tearing things up in the Olympics], potentially TWO #1 Picks in 2022, and TWO #1 Picks in 2023, and the coaching continuity of Thibs, Bryant & Payne with a full summer and fall to plan and train and nurture and extend upon what we accomplished in 2020-2021. 

Are we an Eastern Conference Finalist?

The Bucks, Nyets, Sixers and Heat and might have something to say about that. 

Are we competitive with the Hawks, Hornets, Pacers, Celtics and Wizards? 

We are. 

Are the Pistons and Raptors and Magic and Bulls going to be better? 

Count on it. 

NOTHING IS GIVEN. 

We are built to improve, we are built to remain flexible should tasty tidbits appear on the event horizon. 

WE ARE BUILT TO SUSTAIN A LEVEL OF COMPETITIVE EXCELLENCE Quite Unlike Anything Seen Since Latrell and Allan and Larry and Charlie and Chris and Marcus and KT heroically made it to the NBA Finals, only to fall in five to a San Antonio juggernaut.   

(https://swarmandsting.com/files/2016/12/9707706-derrick-rose-kemba-walker-nba-new-york-knicks-charlotte-hornets.jpg)

Not good enough?  Get over yourself.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 05, 2021, 06:45:46 PM
Chip and Bo -


It's DIN-widdie.
Title: Something For EVERYONE
Post by: chipstern on August 05, 2021, 06:47:28 PM
Jimmer Fredette added to Nuggets' Summer League roster

Harrison Wind: The Nuggets have added Jimmer Fredette to their Summer League roster, the team just announced. Davon Reed also added to the roster. – via Twitter HarrisonWind

32 years old. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 05, 2021, 06:55:36 PM
OMER Yurtseven - late of Patrick's Georgetown - looking good for Heat summer squad

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96mer_Yurtseven

https://www.nba.com/news/max-strus-omer-yurtseven-combine-for-52-points-as-heat-improve-to-2-0
Title: Elfrid
Post by: chipstern on August 05, 2021, 10:08:56 PM
Rumored to be Phoenix bound.
Title: Markannen & Oubre
Post by: chipstern on August 05, 2021, 10:11:41 PM
Hornets in the hunt.
Title: Zinwiddie?
Post by: bodiddley on August 06, 2021, 02:16:19 AM
Isn't Cam Payne a better version of Elf?

LaMelo and Uber in transition works.  Uber best with a fast pace.

Dimwillie -- just like in the Simpsons -- got it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 06, 2021, 03:30:41 AM
Bulls. 
Don't know if it will click, but they have an interesting team with depth:

LonZo Ball  - LaVine - DeRozan - Patrick Williams - Vucevic
Coby White - Caruso - Troy Brown - Markkanen -  pickup a vet min backup

I thought they were a random mess before.  Coby much better as a backup PG.  I'm not a LaVine fan, but DeMar could mentor him (steer him off taking bad shots).  And their defense will be suspect.  Plus they could have trouble working out the pecking order.  Will Ball be allowed to handle and orchestrate, or will Zach and DeMar demand to handle, and Ball stuck off-ball?

Still they upped their talent/competitive level significantly.
Could get off to a slow start as they try to figure things out.  But also could be in the playoff mix.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 06, 2021, 10:36:14 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 06, 2021, 03:30:41 AM
Bulls. 
Don't know if it will click, but they have an interesting team with depth:

LonZo Ball  - LaVine - DeRozan - Patrick Williams - Vucevic
Coby White - Caruso - Troy Brown - Markkanen -  pickup a vet min backup

I thought they were a random mess before.  Coby much better as a backup PG.  I'm not a LaVine fan, but DeMar could mentor him (steer him off taking bad shots).  And their defense will be suspect.  Plus they could have trouble working out the pecking order.  Will Ball be allowed to handle and orchestrate, or will Zach and DeMar demand to handle, and Ball stuck off-ball?

Still they upped their talent/competitive level significantly.
Could get off to a slow start as they try to figure things out.  But also could be in the playoff mix.

Bulls and Wiz did substantial revamps.  Will be interesting to watch.

You actually have a Big Three Lite in Chitown

We do not stack up on paper
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 06, 2021, 10:38:27 AM
Lots of fuckin guards there

Sato gone.  Do they still have Aradiciano?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 06, 2021, 10:45:17 AM
Bulls and Wiz did substantial revamps.  Will be interesting to watch.

WASh:
Dinwizzie - Beal - Kuzma - Hachimura - Bryant
A Holiday -  KCP - Avdija  - Bertans  -- Montrezl
Neto - Kispert - Gafford
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 06, 2021, 01:37:23 PM
Washington and Chicago have the firepower to compete with Charlotte and Boston for play-in spots. Lack of D makes that their ceiling. I hope they didn’t overspend to get there.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 06, 2021, 01:40:31 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 06, 2021, 10:45:17 AM
Bulls and Wiz did substantial revamps.  Will be interesting to watch.

WASh:
Dinwizzie - Beal - Kuzma - Hachimura - Bryant
A Holiday -  KCP - Avdija  - Bertans  -- Montrezl
Neto - Kispert - Gafford

Impressive haul for Westbrook. 

They looked tough as hell in the playoffs, admittedly with Westbrook in the cut. 

All of the Marc Berman's of the world, with their dipshit theories about Beal's free agency. 

This is a deep team they've collected around him, and Wes Unseld Jr. is a defensive stalwart.  They are going to be a lot better. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 06, 2021, 01:50:47 PM
Nuggets saw enough of Fredette. He’s already off the team.
Title: Hornets
Post by: chipstern on August 06, 2021, 01:52:07 PM
Getting deeper.  We may very well cash in their 2022 #1 pick. 

Just inked Kelly Oubre. 

Looking at the third Ball Brother.  Just let Graham walk to the Pelicans. 

Plumlee-McDaniels-Jones-Carey

Hayward-Oubre-Bridges-Washington

Ball-Rozier-Bouknight

Could use some more beef and brawn at PF-C, but athletic roster. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 06, 2021, 01:52:44 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 06, 2021, 01:50:47 PM
Nuggets saw enough of Fredette. He’s already off the team.

Really?  Source?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 06, 2021, 01:53:35 PM
All of the Marc Berman's of the world, with their dipshit theories about Beal's free agency.


Make no mistake - Beal was gone if Russ stayed
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 06, 2021, 01:57:05 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 06, 2021, 01:52:44 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 06, 2021, 01:50:47 PM
Nuggets saw enough of Fredette. He’s already off the team.

Really?  Source?

Jimmer life:

https://www.deseret.com/2021/6/2/22463692/when-jimmer-fredette-is-away-family-whitney-colorado-chinese-basketball-association-shanghai-sharks
Title: Clippers
Post by: chipstern on August 06, 2021, 01:57:41 PM
Reggie Jackson reups, 2 x 22. 
Title: Re: Zinwiddie?
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 06, 2021, 02:01:35 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 06, 2021, 02:16:19 AM
Isn't Cam Payne a better version of Elf?

LaMelo and Uber in transition works.  Uber best with a fast pace.

Dimwillie -- just like in the Simpsons -- got it.

Cam lookin to get PAID, eh?

Heh, look at that - CP3 likes Payton.  Imagine....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 06, 2021, 02:25:52 PM
Mike Singer: Due to a last-minute issue, Jimmer Fredette will NOT be on the #Nuggets Summer League roster, per source. – via Twitter msinger
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 06, 2021, 02:30:32 PM
Thanks Kid. Also Schroder in talks with Boston.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 06, 2021, 02:42:39 PM
Mudiay

Blazers

Summer league
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 06, 2021, 03:05:47 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on August 06, 2021, 02:42:39 PM
Mudiay

Blazers

Summer league

Nobody cares.
Title: Dominoes falling falling, trade rumor dreaming
Post by: Kam on August 06, 2021, 03:14:36 PM
This is tea leaves reading time. 

After signing Noel and Randle its natural to wonder what will happen with Mitch and Obi.

Both are still under contract.  Nothing has to happen yet. 

The roster is set but a trade could happen at anytime. 

Here's one I like that could happen if the Knicks ante up.


Trade: Mitch + Obi + Knox + "fill in the blank"
Receive Myles Turner

Money works.  Knicks do it to thin out a bit of the roster glut and because Turner is a cost controlled excellent starter in a conference where you must get by an Embiid or a Capella or the Milwaukee frontline. (18mil next year, 18mil the year after).  Means the Knicks don't have to pay for Robinson (Jarrett Allen got 100mil!!) and they can find Obi a landing spot since he is now blocked by Randle.  Knox makes the salary work.

Question is.... do the Pacers ask for picks also?  That's where my appetite for the deal begins to breaks down.   
Maybe the Charlotte pick could be the sweetener but I draw the line there.

Mitch, Obi, Knox, the charlotte pick for Myles Turner.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 06, 2021, 03:17:11 PM
Hmmmm.....

Fred Katz: Sources: The Wizards are rescinding Garrison Mathews’ qualifying offer, which will make Mathews an unrestricted free agent. The 24-year-old Mathews shot 38 percent from 3-point range last year and started 24 games as a two-way player. – via Twitter FredKatz
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 06, 2021, 03:18:31 PM
So....

Give up Toppin to get Markaanen?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 06, 2021, 03:49:38 PM
Nah. Keep Toppin.

I don’t hate the Miles Turner idea, I just don’t want us to do it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 06, 2021, 04:32:28 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 06, 2021, 03:49:38 PM
Nah. Keep Toppin.

I don’t hate the Miles Turner idea, I just don’t want us to do it.

Like Turner.

But we have four #1 picks over the next two years, and a Sexton like Easter Basket with picks plus Mitchell and Obi and Kevin is simply profligate.

That's a Lillard package not fucking Turner. 

Catch your breath dude.

We have a team for 2021-2022.

Continuity
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 06, 2021, 05:27:40 PM
If we go as constructed, no one should see more than 32-33 minutes a game in the regular season.

The guys who could make a case for 30 or more are RJ, Randle, and Fournier, and possibly Mitch if he takes a step.

I could see Thibs using a 9 man rotation of Mitch Noel Randle Toppin Fournier Burks Barrett Rose Walker with the rest, Quickley, Taj, the three rooks, and Vildoza being “situational”, though Quick might get some minor burn.
Title: Justice Winslow
Post by: chipstern on August 06, 2021, 05:28:26 PM
Clippers bound.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 06, 2021, 05:32:25 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 06, 2021, 05:27:40 PM
If we go as constructed, no one should see more than 32-33 minutes a game in the regular season.

The guys who could make a case for 30 or more are RJ, Randle, and Fournier, and possibly Mitch if he takes a step.

I could see Thibs using a 9 man rotation of Mitch Noel Randle Toppin Fournier Burks Barrett Rose Walker with the rest, Quickley, Taj, the three rooks, and Vildoza being “situational”, though Quick might get some minor burn.

I would hope Walker and Rose are slotted for 20.

Julius, RJ and Evan for 30. 

If we project Obi as a rotation player, let alone an asset, he needs 18-20 at PF and Center [A la Taj]
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 06, 2021, 05:39:40 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 06, 2021, 05:28:26 PM
Clippers bound.

Speaking of former Grizzlies, Grayson Allen to the Bucks for a couple of second rounders.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 06, 2021, 05:54:29 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 06, 2021, 04:32:28 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 06, 2021, 03:49:38 PM
Nah. Keep Toppin.

I don’t hate the Miles Turner idea, I just don’t want us to do it.

Like Turner.

But we have four #1 picks over the next two years, and a Sexton like Easter Basket with picks plus Mitchell and Obi and Kevin is simply profligate.

That's a Lillard package not fucking Turner. 

Catch your breath dude.

We have a team for 2021-2022.

Continuity

LILLARD?  For that?

Heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 06, 2021, 06:03:58 PM
Would be interesting to revisit last year's discussion on minutes, see how those projections panned out

I would think Fornier has to really earn his 30.

Figuring Walker for 50 games and 1100 minutes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 06, 2021, 06:42:12 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 06, 2021, 05:39:40 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 06, 2021, 05:28:26 PM
Clippers bound.

Speaking of former Grizzlies, Grayson Allen to the Bucks for a couple of second rounders.

Yikes.

More snipers.

George Hill and now Allen.

Great additions. 

PS: So happy for Portis.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 06, 2021, 06:50:00 PM
Yeah. Bobby did good. Has a nice role there.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 06, 2021, 09:27:48 PM
Took a lot of shit here
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 07, 2021, 01:10:56 AM


Keith Smith
@KeithSmithNBA
·
3h
The Detroit Pistons have renounced the free agent rights to Dennis Smith Jr.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 07, 2021, 01:14:30 AM
Marc Berman
@NYPost_Berman

Theo Pinson, a vibrant joy in locker room & bench, has joined the defending champs. Pinson will play for Milwaukee's summer-league team. Pinson is in 4th season & can't be back on 2-way with Knicks - as much as Leon Rose would love to have him. Knicks hold a 2-way spot open.
Title: SAD SAD SAD
Post by: chipstern on August 07, 2021, 09:37:56 AM
Quote from: Kam on August 07, 2021, 01:10:56 AM


Keith Smith
@KeithSmithNBA
·
3h
The Detroit Pistons have renounced the free agent rights to Dennis Smith Jr.

Feel bad for the brother.  He had some talent, but things went awry inside his head and with injuries. 
Title: Evan Fournier
Post by: chipstern on August 07, 2021, 09:41:44 AM
Evan is a player. 

Can create off the dribble. 

Facilitate.

A willing defender, and though clearly still evolving, competes and commits. 

Has real range on his jumper, though under pressure he launched some unguided misses. 
Title: Summer League
Post by: chipstern on August 07, 2021, 09:47:34 AM
Really psyched. 

Intriguing that Jokubaitis is participating, and that he intimated the possibility that he might hang around. 

Think it is more likely and prudent for him to get steady meaningful minutes with Barcelona this year rather than stay ready cameos under Thibs. 

Still, I love the idea that he is going nose to nose with McBride in practice. 

Likewise Vildoza Vs. Quickley. 

Based on Luca's YouTube catalog, he is a talented player, but was very up and down in the Olympics.  We shall see. 
Title: Kemba
Post by: chipstern on August 07, 2021, 10:00:35 AM
Interesting piece in the POST speculating on the short and long term implications of stem cell treatments and what this might portent for the regressive aspects of Walker's knee condition. 

https://nypost.com/2021/08/06/kemba-walkers-knee-injury-could-become-dicey-knicks-situation/ (https://nypost.com/2021/08/06/kemba-walkers-knee-injury-could-become-dicey-knicks-situation/)

Walker also could be subject to physicals before the official signing — examinations that Dr. Wellington Hsu, professor of Orthopaedic Surgery at Northwestern University, recommends. Hsu has not treated Walker....Hsu said the stem-cell injections demonstrate severe wearing of the articular cartilage.

Still see this as a reasonable roll of the dice.  Kemba is a competitor and a charismatic presence on and off the court and in practice. 

In any event, clearly, HELLO THIBS, we need to be prudent and judicious in his deployment and that of Derrick, taking advantage of the Rose & Walker's skill set and leadership, vis a vis the two year window we figure to have for them, both as competitors and mentors to our puppies. 

PS: Utah proceeding very gingerly with Jared Butler, not wanting to expose him to summer league contact before they've had an opportunity to bring him along.  Meanwhile, saw a few minutes of his back court mate Davion Mitchell, and he is quite a physical and spiritual dynamo.  Not sure if Kings keep Hield.  But a rotation based on Fox, Hield, Haliburton and Mitchell looks like big fun. 

Title: Kuminga, Moody
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 07, 2021, 12:23:11 PM
Saw most of Warriors-Heat

These 2 rookies for GS are the real deal.

Kuminga just a super athlete but also an excellent shot maker

Moody - energy, depth of J, power at rim.

Looking at Kings now - could it be they erred once again with Davion Mitchell?

(Mac McClung with Lakers)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 07, 2021, 12:25:52 PM
Chip, this is a big part of why I have Kemba penciled in for the bench role with us. He’s still a big weapon when available, but we’re best not to count on it too heavily and to take advantage of second units where Kemba coasting a bit won’t hurt the team as much.

Congrats to team USA and the other senior Men’s basketball medalists.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 07, 2021, 12:37:23 PM
Rose is a great second unit guy.  Likely they go that way.
Title: High Jump
Post by: elephant on August 07, 2021, 01:38:35 PM
Regarding the olympics.

I happened to stumble on a high jump competition last week. Saw a Korean jump so beautifully, figured I'd watch a couple more guys go. Two hours later — and damn, if this wasn’t the funnest and most emotional thing I saw in the Olympics. No commercial bullshit. Lots of intimacy on a dozen different characters from around the world. And a fairy tale ending.

Recommended.

https://icelz.newsrade.com/olympics/olympics.php?id=aHR0cHM6Ly9hcGktbGVhcC5uYmNzcG9ydHMuY29tL2ZlZWRzL2Fzc2V0cy8yMDIxNjk2P2FwcGxpY2F0aW9uPU5CQ09seW1waWNzJnBsYXRmb3JtPWRlc2t0b3AmZm9ybWF0PW5iYy1wbGF5ZXImZW52PXN0YWdpbmc=
 (https://icelz.newsrade.com/olympics/olympics.php?id=aHR0cHM6Ly9hcGktbGVhcC5uYmNzcG9ydHMuY29tL2ZlZWRzL2Fzc2V0cy8yMDIxNjk2P2FwcGxpY2F0aW9uPU5CQ09seW1waWNzJnBsYXRmb3JtPWRlc2t0b3AmZm9ybWF0PW5iYy1wbGF5ZXImZW52PXN0YWdpbmc=)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 07, 2021, 01:46:58 PM
Sac pick begs a question -

What exactly did Knicks offer them for that #9 overall (where likely we'd have taken Duarte)?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 07, 2021, 02:02:17 PM
I don’t think we’ll be sad about missing out on Duarte. Primo maybe. Mitchell looks like a guard with potential for Sacramento.

What were we offering for Miles Turner again? Mitch, Obi, Knox, and some picks? A first and two seconds? I’ll have to think about it.

Remember that Rose is fully mind melded with the coach and is a far better defender at this point than Kemba.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 07, 2021, 04:33:22 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 07, 2021, 02:02:17 PM
I don’t think we’ll be sad about missing out on Duarte. Primo maybe. Mitchell looks like a guard with potential for Sacramento.

What were we offering for Miles Turner again? Mitch, Obi, Knox, and some picks? A first and two seconds? I’ll have to think about it.

Remember that Rose is fully mind melded with the coach and is a far better defender at this point than Kemba.

Clearly we part company on trades.

To my innocent ears, that is a profligate expenditure of assets. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 07, 2021, 05:01:53 PM
Taking a deeper look, Mitch himself might be more of an asset than Turner. How much do we wind up paying him if we think he can stay healthy?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 07, 2021, 07:07:00 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 07, 2021, 05:01:53 PM
Taking a deeper look, Mitch himself might be more of an asset than Turner. How much do we wind up paying him if we think he can stay healthy?

I really like Turner.

But watching some MSG replays of Knicks games from last season, while we were waiting on the Finals and the draft, Mitchell was really raising his game significantly before and after both injuries.

Let's remember that Bill Cartwright broke his foot twice, and went on to three rings.

As for people reflexively dumping Obi?  He improved enough to earn Thjbs trust in the playoff.  Julius didn't have enough gas in the tank to raise up.against Hawks double teams, and a lack of offense from everyone save Rose.

Noel raised his game significantly with starters minutes.  Of course the culmlinative load was too much for him. 

I believe we will see 18-22 a night from Mitchell and Nerlens, with Obi or Taj taking up the remainder in/against small ball alignments.

Likewise, I look to a 32/16 split give or take between Julius and Obi.  One way or another, Obi needs to grind 16-20 a night to advance.

Likewise, with Fournier and Burks, as well as Knox and Grimes, look for RJ to be more in the 25-32 range.

As for PG, I would look for Rose and Walker to both be in the 18-22 range, as I believe the Knicks are going to try and fast track McBride, both to keep our PG ancient mariners ambulatory and fresh for the playoffs, and because Deuce was a steal at #36.

Phantasy trades are fun.  But I am more excited about extending on what we built upon from last season, learning our lessons from the HAWKS Series, and nurturing the talent we have. 

I'm not precluding moves, but I believe proceeding as if this is all a prelude to the arrival of a superstar is pissing into the wind. 

Not like we're not positioning ourselves.  Kawhi?  Zack, Bradley, Dame?

New Orleans is currently fucking up in a major way.  Might they open the door to Zion in 2024?

In the meantime, we don't SPEND assets, we NURTURE and PROPAGATE assets.  We build a sustainable culture.   

The likes of Myles Turner is a fine player.  Does he significantly move the needle?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 07, 2021, 09:41:06 PM
He gives you a stretch five with Noel, Taj, and Sims behind him, while giving you close to what Mitch does on D and at somewhat at the cup. His contract is two years and manageable.

It’s a move in the direction of adding Fournier over Bullock and Kemba over Payton. I think it’s probably one step too far that way, but

Turner Noel Sims
Randle Taj Simms
Barrett Burks Grimes
Fournier Quickley Vildoza
Rose Walker McBride

is a pretty dangerous war party, even in the improved East.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 08, 2021, 02:16:29 PM
Pretty up and down Olympic final game for Fournier and Franc.
Fournier had trouble with JRue's pressure D.
And didn't score in the 3Q when US took a decent lead.
Founier did hit a quick transition 3 under with around 1:20 left.
But then the next possession France got the ball with 43 secs and down 6.
Needed a quick 2 or a quality 3.  Then a stop.
Fournier jacks a quick contested 28 footer that misses the rim.  Not under control.
Bad decision.  The kind of mistake I've seen for Fournier when under pressure.
Finished 5-15 for the game.

Franc looked heavier/more solid than I've seen before.  Coach played him the finals 6 or 7 minutes.  Popped in a 3 to make it a 3 point game under 5 minutes left.  But next possession he drove a little and made a feeble pass that was easily stolen.    Later jacked an airball 3.  But also came over to double Tatum to cause a late turnover.  Around the 2 min mark dribbled around with Durant on him and the ball squirted away, but Franc was able to recover.
Franc has very limited PG chops.  Barely a combo guard.

Franc and Dennis Smith still without contracts.  Franc at least has a defined role as a backup defensive G.  Jr. Smith might get picked up as 3rd strong somewhere.  Or could be out of the League.  On a similar note, Mudiay (just 25) will play on Portland's Summer League team, trying to stay in the Association.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 08, 2021, 02:43:26 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 07, 2021, 09:41:06 PM
He gives you a stretch five with Noel, Taj, and Sims behind him, while giving you close to what Mitch does on D and at somewhat at the cup. His contract is two years and manageable.

It’s a move in the direction of adding Fournier over Bullock and Kemba over Payton. I think it’s probably one step too far that way, but

Turner Noel Sims
Randle Taj Simms
Barrett Burks Grimes
Fournier Quickley Vildoza
Rose Walker McBride

is a pretty dangerous war party, even in the improved East.

I believe the Knicks value Obi, Mitch [and their draft capital] far more than you do.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 08, 2021, 02:46:10 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 08, 2021, 02:16:29 PM
Pretty up and down Olympic final game for Fournier and Franc.
Fournier had trouble with JRue's pressure D.
And didn't score in the 3Q when US took a decent lead.
Founier did hit a quick transition 3 under with around 1:20 left.
But then the next possession France got the ball with 43 secs and down 6.
Needed a quick 2 or a quality 3.  Then a stop.
Fournier jacks a quick contested 28 footer that misses the rim.  Not under control.
Bad decision.  The kind of mistake I've seen for Fournier when under pressure.
Finished 5-15 for the game.

Franc looked heavier/more solid than I've seen before.  Coach played him the finals 6 or 7 minutes.  Popped in a 3 to make it a 3 point game under 5 minutes left.  But next possession he drove a little and made a feeble pass that was easily stolen.    Later jacked an airball 3.  But also came over to double Tatum to cause a late turnover.  Around the 2 min mark dribbled around with Durant on him and the ball squirted away, but Franc was able to recover.
Franc has very limited PG chops.  Barely a combo guard.

Franc and Dennis Smith still without contracts.  Franc at least has a defined role as a backup defensive G.  Jr. Smith might get picked up as 3rd strong somewhere.  Or could be out of the League.  On a similar note, Mudiay (just 25) will play on Portland's Summer League team, trying to stay in the Association.

Is there perchance a reason why your analysis ignored Fournier's 28 in France's opening victory over the USA?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 08, 2021, 04:10:35 PM
Not what I just watched.  Not what just happened.  Not what I was talking about. 

Feel free to discuss Fournier's Olympic run.  I didn't see France much.
Saw the US and Slovenia a lot.  But missed the exciting France-Slovenia game.

It was an iffy, beatable US team.  But other teams also had flaws (age for Spain; depth and age for Oz).  France split 2 games with the US, and stayed close in the gold medal game.  Fournier made a poor decision which locked in the loss.  Maybe it was smart of Fournier to defer in the 2nd half to De Colo and others, since he was off and being hounded.  Then Fournier tried to assert himself deep in crunch time.  Made one coolly and I'm sure would like to have the next wild one back.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 08, 2021, 04:17:00 PM
The Myles Turner idea is interesting.   I like MyTurn.
But I'd be interested in why IND is willing to move him, why BOS didn't want him, why MyTurn doesn't seem to impact winning much.
A good deal of assets to give up for another C.  His ability to space the floor would be helpful.

A bit late in the day so that most backup PF FA's who could take ObiT's place are gone -- even vet min guys like Tank Kaminsky.  Milsap is out there.  He's 36, but still savvy.  I don't have a list of other F FA's still available.
Title: Jericho Sims
Post by: chipstern on August 08, 2021, 05:37:49 PM
WTF?!!!
Title: Scottie Barnes
Post by: chipstern on August 08, 2021, 06:20:05 PM
Now that's a 3&D.
Title: Obi
Post by: chipstern on August 08, 2021, 06:42:55 PM
Nice first step.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 08, 2021, 07:31:07 PM
Obi, Sims, and McBride look very playable. IQ still not a PG, but better in the box score despite awful shooting than he looked on the court. Vildoza was blah as was Grimes.

Still there was some progress though the Raptors looked much more fluid behind Barnes and Flynn.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 08, 2021, 11:53:09 PM
The league has added a game for us at 2pm EST, 11 am PST.
Title: When?
Post by: carlos123 on August 08, 2021, 11:58:20 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 08, 2021, 11:53:09 PM
The league has added a game for us at 2pm EST, 11 am PST.

When? Tomorrow?

ESPN2?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 09, 2021, 01:49:28 AM
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/10009941-pacers-vs-wizards-nba-summer-league-game-postponed-because-of-safety-protocols (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/10009941-pacers-vs-wizards-nba-summer-league-game-postponed-because-of-safety-protocols)

We’re stepping in for the decimated Wizards. Don’t know who’s covering it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on August 09, 2021, 09:34:51 AM
FUN TO WATCH THIS SUMMER LEAGUE... here's hoping our PG candidates gets to play more PG as games continue...IQ monopolized the point and looked pretty awful at it — makes it harder to assess our off ball players when he's the rock distributor. No need to watch Quick launch 35 footers...not what we're here for.


*** BIG NO TO OBI OUTGOING IN A TURNER TRADE, BIG NO
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 09, 2021, 11:00:16 AM
France-Slovenia was the game of the tourney.
After a quiet 1st half of mostly passing, Fournier shot pretty well in the 2nd half.  But De Colo was the main scorer.  I liked early 4Q, Slovenia cut a 10 point lead down to 1 and Fournier rattled off 5 straight points (the first was an extremely wide open 3).  At times, Fournier's stroke looks gorgeous.

France up 5 with under a minute left, a Slovenian blows by Fournier who fouls.
After FT's, a 4 point French lead, Fournier gets it across halfcourt and dribbles in place to use clock, then with 15 on the shot clock, he just barrels through a Slovenian, pushing off to make the offensive foul extremely clear.  Just a hugely boneheaded play.  Slovenia hits a 3 and suddenly it's a one point lead.  And that was Fournier's 5th foul to boot, so he's booted.  France's leading scorer takes himself out of the game and gives Slovenia life.
Incredibly, two games in a row, Fournier made a boneheaded offensive play with 44 seconds left.  If Batum doesn't block the last second layup, Fournier would've been the goat.  Now Fournier shouldn't be playing mock-PG.  But that's what happens when your team has Franc. 

Also, Gobert with France up 2 and 1:30 left missed a pair of FT's (after missing a pair of layups).  Next play Gobert catches the ball on the move, runs into a double team, and makes a terrific kickout pass for a wide open De Colo 3, to put France up 5.  I didn't know Rudy could make such a pass/find.  Gobert really struggled with FT's in the gold medal game, which would have been closer if GoBear just canned his FT's.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 09, 2021, 03:30:00 PM
Gobert travelled on that play

Interesting that Luka passed on the final shot

Jordan-esque.
Title: Progress [Trust The Process]
Post by: chipstern on August 09, 2021, 03:39:42 PM
IQ.  Yes. 

As uneven as he was yesterday, stepping up today. 

And Toppin be Poppin

What was that about how Obi should be cutting back on his treys? 

Progress. 

McBride with some nice play.  Given his size, finishing at the rim is a work in progress. 

Jericho has a presence.  Thoughtful.  Mature. 

Jokubaitis...nervous in the service.  A couple of nice plays. 
Title: Duarte
Post by: chipstern on August 09, 2021, 03:47:32 PM
Impressive. 
Title: IQ & Deuce
Post by: chipstern on August 09, 2021, 03:52:30 PM
They remind me of each other. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 09, 2021, 04:07:12 PM
McBride is bigger than Quickley.

I’d call that progress on the quick turn around.

Duarte was impressive in spots.

Rokas to Barcelona definitely.

I don’t really see a need for Vildoza on the team. Frank, Exum, or some kind of stretch big seems more helpful on the main roster.

Not sure what Grimes is right now, but he could be something. He seems to need more GLeague time than any of our other picks but Rokas who’ll be doing it overseas.
Title: Interesting
Post by: chipstern on August 09, 2021, 04:22:33 PM
Keith Smith: Kemba Walker gave up $20M total in his buyout/waiver with the Oklahoma City Thunder, sources tell @spotrac. Walker gave up $9,777,778 in 2021-22 and $10,222,222 in 2022-23. – via Twitter KeithSmithNBA

Gracious of him. 

Was owed $73 million, so not like an act of selfless charity, but still...
Title: PGs
Post by: carlos123 on August 09, 2021, 04:28:28 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 09, 2021, 04:07:12 PM
McBride is bigger than Quickley.

I’d call that progress on the quick turn around.

Duarte was impressive in spots.

Rokas to Barcelona definitely.

I don’t really see a need for Vildoza on the team. Frank, Exum, or some kind of stretch big seems more helpful on the main roster.

Not sure what Grimes is right now, but he could be something. He seems to need more GLeague time than any of our other picks but Rokas who’ll be doing it overseas.

Fac, McBride may be bigger than Quickley, but only one assist in 25 mins. vs 8 for Quickley in 33.

I think you're a little too quick to dismiss Vildoza. He hasn't had a chance to show anything. Just 4 mins. today, and about the same yesterday. Plus, you no longer have a problem with his name. Just be a nice fella and give him a chance 🧐
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 09, 2021, 04:51:21 PM
Luca drew a charge and he can throw that pass that gets you a bucket with one tick on the clock, so he can finish out summer league. I currently have him 6th best PG on the roster as Walker, Rose, McBride, Quickley, and Burks all run rings around him at this point on both ends. Fournier, Barrett, Burks, Grimes, Quickley, and McBride are all ahead of him at SG so he’s 7th in that pecking order. Quickley and McBride together make less salary than he does. He seems cool and all, but I don’t see what justifies picking up his salary and filling a roster spot with him at this point.
Title: Re: Interesting
Post by: Kam on August 09, 2021, 05:03:07 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 09, 2021, 04:22:33 PM
Keith Smith: Kemba Walker gave up $20M total in his buyout/waiver with the Oklahoma City Thunder, sources tell @spotrac. Walker gave up $9,777,778 in 2021-22 and $10,222,222 in 2022-23. – via Twitter KeithSmithNBA

Gracious of him. 

Was owed $73 million, so not like an act of selfless charity, but still...

And he got most of that back from the Knicks.  Only cost him 4 mil to maneuver out of OKC.
Title: Luca Vildoza
Post by: carlos123 on August 09, 2021, 05:09:40 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 09, 2021, 04:51:21 PM
Luca drew a charge and he can throw that pass that gets you a bucket with one tick on the clock, so he can finish out summer league. I currently have him 6th best PG on the roster as Walker, Rose, McBride, Quickley, and Burks all run rings around him at this point on both ends. Fournier, Barrett, Burks, Grimes, Quickley, and McBride are all ahead of him at SG so he’s 7th in that pecking order. Quickley and McBride together make less salary than he does. He seems cool and all, but I don’t see what justifies picking up his salary and filling a roster spot with him at this point.

And you draw this conclusion out of 4 minutes of playing time?
Title: Re: Interesting
Post by: bodiddley on August 09, 2021, 06:00:08 PM
Quote from: Kam on August 09, 2021, 05:03:07 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 09, 2021, 04:22:33 PM
Keith Smith: Kemba Walker gave up $20M total in his buyout/waiver with the Oklahoma City Thunder, sources tell @spotrac. Walker gave up $9,777,778 in 2021-22 and $10,222,222 in 2022-23.

And he got most of that back from the Knicks.  Only cost him 4 mil to maneuver out of OKC.

Almost exactly the standard MLE.
Kemba and agent figured some team would offer Walker the full MLE for two years.
So they were expecting he'd come out whole.

Since the Knix used actual cap space instead of the exception, Kemba agreed to take the slight discount to get on a playoff competing team in his hometown.
Title: Dwayne Bacon
Post by: Kam on August 09, 2021, 07:01:06 PM
Tim Bontemps
@TimBontemps

The Knicks have agreed to a deal with free agent guard Dwayne Bacon, sources tell ESPN. Bacon averaged 10.9 points per game while playing all 72 games last season with the Orlando Magic.
Title: Things That Make You Go....Hmmmmm?
Post by: chipstern on August 09, 2021, 07:04:36 PM
Tim Bontemps: The Knicks have agreed to a deal with free agent guard Dwayne Bacon, sources tell ESPN. Bacon averaged 10.9 points per game while playing all 72 games last season with the Orlando Magic. – via Twitter TimBontemps

25 years old. 

6'7" shooting guard. 

145-176 FTs

Nice

59-207 from trey

NOT so nice

Hmmmmmmm. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 09, 2021, 07:06:28 PM
(https://a2.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=%2Fphoto%2F2021%2F0809%2Fr893473_1296x518_5%2D2.jpg&w=1256&h=502&scale=crop&cquality=40&location=center&format=jpg)

Ignore the hair, and Jalen Green looks a lot like MJ in that photo.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 09, 2021, 07:15:03 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 09, 2021, 07:06:28 PM
(https://a2.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=%2Fphoto%2F2021%2F0809%2Fr893473_1296x518_5%2D2.jpg&w=1256&h=502&scale=crop&cquality=40&location=center&format=jpg)

Ignore the hair, and Jalen Green looks a lot like MJ in that photo.

MJ fused with LaMarcus ALdridge.
Title: Signed Bacon for his defense
Post by: Kam on August 09, 2021, 07:16:11 PM
Defensively, Bacon’s 6-foot-7 frame and 6-foot-10 wingspan gives him a great size advantage when matched up against opposing guards. He’s able to keep his positioning throughout each possession, and hardly ever gets stuck behind screen-and-rolls near the perimeter. Even at end-game scenarios, Bacon’s ability to lock in defensively in one-on-one situations contributed to many clutch stops last season.

His former college coach Leonard Hamilton has done an excellent job in molding Bacon’s defensive intensity and IQ at Florida State. Players like Jonathan Isaac, Malik Beasley, and Toney Douglas have gone through Hamilton’s program and produced a consistent motor on that end of the floor in the NBA.

This is why Bacon, with good reason, can become the team’s best defender out on the perimeter.

---

Bacon could be a late game defensive substitution.  He could quite literally save the Knicks Bacon.
Title: Re: Things That Make You Go....Hmmmmm?
Post by: Kam on August 09, 2021, 07:19:36 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 09, 2021, 07:04:36 PM
Tim Bontemps: The Knicks have agreed to a deal with free agent guard Dwayne Bacon, sources tell ESPN. Bacon averaged 10.9 points per game while playing all 72 games last season with the Orlando Magic. – via Twitter TimBontemps


He was one of only 11 players in the NBA to play in all 72 regular season games.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 09, 2021, 07:20:49 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 06, 2021, 03:49:38 PM
Nah. Keep Toppin.

I don’t hate the Miles Turner idea, I just don’t want us to do it.

Some things to like with Obi

Plenty to dislike.

Markaanen would love the challenge of taking his skilz to NY
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 09, 2021, 07:21:49 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on August 09, 2021, 09:34:51 AM
FUN TO WATCH THIS SUMMER LEAGUE... here's hoping our PG candidates gets to play more PG as games continue...IQ monopolized the point and looked pretty awful at it — makes it harder to assess our off ball players when he's the rock distributor. No need to watch Quick launch 35 footers...not what we're here for.


*** BIG NO TO OBI OUTGOING IN A TURNER TRADE, BIG NO

Just the one game was needed for me to get a good sense of Vildoza and McBride
Title: The Magic waived him
Post by: Kam on August 09, 2021, 07:42:30 PM

We’ll there’s a youth movement in Orlando so it makes sense. He’s a black hole on offense but he can get some buckets. He’d be good fit off the bench on a contender.
Title: IQ
Post by: chipstern on August 09, 2021, 08:04:32 PM
Duarte looked really good, particularly on D. 

Still, there was one play where IQ took him inside, faked a shot, then stepped back and literally broke Duarte's legs, slipping behind the arc for an open three. 

Bacon being slotted as a big defensive wing, a la Bruce Bowen. 

Bowen and excellent three point shooter and a lousy FT shooter. 

Bacon in his second year, shot .437% from trey, but was sub-.300 in all his three other seasons. 

Vildoza has made some defensive plays and a couple of nice assists, but he looks neither confident nor commanding out there. 

Joukabaitis had a case of the jitters and coughed up the ball a few times, but he looked more comfortable as a scorer and facilitator than Vildoza.  Think the Knicks probably stash him in Barcelona for a year, and cut Vildoza loose. 

IQ and McBride look more than capable of filling in for Walker/Rose at the point, with In Case of Fire Break Glass Burks on ice. 

Obi had been reminding me of a young Amare.  Good to see him get a full spring and summer in training with IQ.  And IQ vs. McBride should be some feisty practice sessions.  Thibs looked pleased with both of them. 

Sims looks to be a very mature, intelligent player.  Great pickup. 

Damn shame that Knox got COVID.  Kid can't catch a break. 

C: Noel, Robinson, Gibson [Sims]
PF: Randle, Toppin, Knox [Simms]
SF: Fournier, Burks, Bacon
SG: Barrett, Quickley, Grimes
PG: Walker, Rose, McBride
Title: Re: The Magic waived him
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 09, 2021, 08:13:57 PM
Quote from: Kam on August 09, 2021, 07:42:30 PM

We’ll there’s a youth movement in Orlando so it makes sense. He’s a black hole on offense but he can get some buckets. He’d be good fit off the bench on a contender.

More experience - true - than the cat that started for us yesterday

The Bacon signing shows -


Stopppp already with the "we're done".
Title: Say whaaat?
Post by: carlos123 on August 09, 2021, 08:23:33 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on August 09, 2021, 07:21:49 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on August 09, 2021, 09:34:51 AM
FUN TO WATCH THIS SUMMER LEAGUE... here's hoping our PG candidates gets to play more PG as games continue...IQ monopolized the point and looked pretty awful at it — makes it harder to assess our off ball players when he's the rock distributor. No need to watch Quick launch 35 footers...not what we're here for.


*** BIG NO TO OBI OUTGOING IN A TURNER TRADE, BIG NO

Just the one game was needed for me to get a good sense of Vildoza and McBride

Of course. That's why you're another VERY STABLE GENIUS 🤪
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 09, 2021, 08:25:49 PM
SHOOTERS McBride and Grimes should be on this team....

eventually.  And they will prosper.

They can hang NOW.  But the appearance that we could be fine with both in dry dock shows how deep we have become.

Meanwhile...

How bout my guy Malachi Flynn?

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 09, 2021, 08:27:59 PM
Didn't even realize Duarte was in the game

Or did we play him today in the added game?

Thanks
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 09, 2021, 08:29:34 PM
Ok just checked - with Indy

Have to try to catch a replay

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 09, 2021, 08:46:20 PM
Speaking of Duarte - may not have been Chris we were dealing up for

After seeing Sengun ball for HOU yesterday...

MON dieu!

Dude had 8 free throw attempts after one quarter.
Title: Re: Luca Vildoza
Post by: facilitatorn on August 09, 2021, 08:52:25 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on August 09, 2021, 05:09:40 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 09, 2021, 04:51:21 PM
Luca drew a charge and he can throw that pass that gets you a bucket with one tick on the clock, so he can finish out summer league. I currently have him 6th best PG on the roster as Walker, Rose, McBride, Quickley, and Burks all run rings around him at this point on both ends. Fournier, Barrett, Burks, Grimes, Quickley, and McBride are all ahead of him at SG so he’s 7th in that pecking order. Quickley and McBride together make less salary than he does. He seems cool and all, but I don’t see what justifies picking up his salary and filling a roster spot with him at this point.

And you draw this conclusion out of 4 minutes of playing time?

Seems I’m not the only one to get to a quick conclusion.

Welcome Dwayne Bacon with the sizzle and the crunch.

I think Chip is right about how this shakes out down the roster.

It’s nice to root for a rich team that keeps getting richer.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 09, 2021, 09:14:29 PM
Getting second look at KUMINGA

Very impressive,

They are talking about this class as being maybe the best since '84,  Thus far no disagreement here

Also nice to see Kyle Guy as a "veteran" with the Golden State pups.

Tonight we see Suggs and C Anthony together for ORL.  So far so good. 

You could make many a case for any of the top ten teams picking being better off with another player.  Will revisit this as the year goes along.

(For instance, re:  Suggs - was TOR making a mistake - or did not taking Jalen allow for more court time for a Malachi?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 09, 2021, 09:48:10 PM
IGGY sighting, with Magic

Showing same negative as Obi - body control/creation of space.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 10, 2021, 12:05:28 AM
Cole Anthony had a hard time playing off the guy replacing him in the Magic’s plans.

Theo Pinson stuffing the stat sheet for the Bucks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 10, 2021, 12:15:29 AM
Cole Anthony had a hard time playing off the guy replacing him in the Magic’s plans.


They'll play together some

Good to have options

Fultz, Harris, Hampton also aboard
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 10, 2021, 12:18:37 AM
Michael Carter Williams, I guess, as well - but just for a year

ROSS is a three.
Title: Re: Luca Vildoza
Post by: carlos123 on August 10, 2021, 12:34:15 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 09, 2021, 08:52:25 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on August 09, 2021, 05:09:40 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 09, 2021, 04:51:21 PM
Luca drew a charge and he can throw that pass that gets you a bucket with one tick on the clock, so he can finish out summer league. I currently have him 6th best PG on the roster as Walker, Rose, McBride, Quickley, and Burks all run rings around him at this point on both ends. Fournier, Barrett, Burks, Grimes, Quickley, and McBride are all ahead of him at SG so he’s 7th in that pecking order. Quickley and McBride together make less salary than he does. He seems cool and all, but I don’t see what justifies picking up his salary and filling a roster spot with him at this point.

And you draw this conclusion out of 4 minutes of playing time?

Seems I’m not the only one to get to a quick conclusion.


Yeah, strange bedfellows, you, Chip and Chamaco-the-other-stable-genius 🧐
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 10, 2021, 01:04:36 AM
With the Bacon signing, I was thinking more Thibs and Rose.

But Vildoza may stick around. You never know…

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 10, 2021, 02:49:50 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 10, 2021, 01:04:36 AM
With the Bacon signing, I was thinking more Thibs and Rose.

But Vildoza may stick around. You never know…

I have a rooting interest in Vildoza.

Has skills.

Has  been out of sorts all through the summer.

Remains to be seen, but a numbers game at this point, looking to the possibility of Jokubaitis in 2022, maybe 2021...

The reality of Walker, Rose, McBride, Quickley, let alone Grimes and perhaps even Bacon in 2021. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 10, 2021, 05:19:41 AM
We can take 20 to camp and take 15 + 2 out.

What we know so far about who is signed, by position and in the order I think will resolve from internal competition:

Mitch Noel Taj Sims
Randle Obi Knox Simms
RJ Bacon Grimes
Fournier Burks IQ Vildoza
Rose Walker McBride Rokas

That’s 19. Assuming Rokas takes his Spanish money, and Sims stays on his two-way deal, that’s 17 left to sort out with one cut and one two way.

First let’s find the top fifteen, the ones to start the season on regular contracts

Mitch Noel Taj
Randle Obi Knox
RJ Bacon Grimes
Fournier Burks IQ
Rose Walker McBride

Up in the air is the status of Simms and Vildoza. Simms would be much cheaper to keep and he’d be our 8th frontcourt player where as Vildoza would be our 10th perimeter guy.

I don’t think GLeauge makes much sense for Luca at this point in his career when he can easily make much more in his old league. For Simms the GLeague makes perfect sense and a two-way is a great opportunity fresh out of college.

Saving the amount we’d need to pay Vildoza may be how we afford to pay Bacon enough to get him on board. Vildoza is ready for another run through Euroleague and Eurocup where his Knicks training will serve him well.
Title: Passing Of The Torch
Post by: chipstern on August 10, 2021, 10:29:59 AM
I must say that I simply LOVE the idea of IQ and Deuce going at each other in practice and of soaking up the gravy from Kemba and Derrick.  Tenacious attack dawgs. 

Likewise Obi going head to head with Julius. 

Jericho mixing it up with Noel and Mitchell. 

RJ sparring with Fournier. 

PS: Thibs looked pleased with IQ yesterday. 

PPS: IQ & Deuce pair up with Cade on the morrow in a Summer League Reality Check. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on August 10, 2021, 10:31:04 AM
I love how everybody (almost) has got everybody (almost) 100% evaluated and assigned after about 9 minutes of play, lol, particularly the fresh-of-a-plane furriners.


*** I'm just sitting back and enjoying the show, 6 games in 9 days in the middle of summer...YUM. Pretty impressed by the fluidity, team-ball readiness and general respectable level of play compared to my memories of summer leagues past.
Title: After All...
Post by: chipstern on August 10, 2021, 10:39:18 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on August 10, 2021, 10:31:04 AM
I love how everybody (almost) has got everybody (almost) 100% evaluated and assigned after about 9 minutes of play, lol, particularly the fresh-of-a-plane furriners.


*** I'm just sitting back and enjoying the show, 6 games in 9 days in the middle of summer...YUM. Pretty impressed by the fluidity, team-ball readiness and general respectable level of play compared to my memories of summer leagues past.

It IS Summer League, Dawg. 

None of us is in mid-season form. 

Exercising.  Exorcising. 

A Two Month Hoops Drought After These Rookie Hoe Downs Go Bye Bye. 

Roster Questions? 

Who knows what the Knicks thinking is, evaluation-wise. 

I mean, Luca, for instance.  Knicks Brass saw something.  Basically tendered him a $3.5 million signing bonus, before they knew we were going to re-up Derrick, draft McBride and Jokubaitis, let alone rub Aladdin's lamp and make Kemba Walker appear.   
Title: Bankshot Alert [Citizen Schroeder]
Post by: chipstern on August 10, 2021, 11:48:08 AM
The Earthly Remains Of Dennis Schroeder.

Surely glad the Knicks dodged THIS BULLET, even though I've always liked his game, within reason. 

Good defender and free throw shooter, though very up and down as a three point shooter.

Still, if there is something one needs trust in a point guard, it is JUDGEMENT, and herein, Dennis The Menace has been found wanting. 

When you are teamed with the Lakers Legacy and LeBron no less, and find yourself insulted by their offer of only 4 years guaranteed at $84 million, well, it might be fair to question your judgement as a playmaker [let alone being punked big time in the off season by no less than the iconic Magic Johnson]. 

The Lakers, pausing only to wipe away crocodile tears, placed Dennis in the rear view mirror and traded for Russell Westbrook. 

Meanwhile having rather badly overplayed his hand, Schroeder continues to display the same selfless, level headed judgement that distinguished his self-immolation with one of the premier NBA franchises, to fucking WIT:   
The Boston Celtics have offered Dennis Schroder a one-year deal at the taxpayer midlevel exception of $5.9 million, sources tell Jordi Schultz of ESPN.

Schroder wants the full midlevel exception of $9.5 million and also seeks a second-year player option.

The Celtics want to avoid being hard-capped for the 21-22 season.

How did Boss Jim Getty put it in CITIZEN KANE?

(https://rhms200fall15.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/citizen-kane-6.jpg)

“You're the greatest fool I've ever known, Kane. If it was anybody else, I'd say what's going to happen to you would be a lesson to you. Only you're going to need more than one lesson. And you're going to get more than one lesson.”

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 10, 2021, 11:59:40 AM
I actually saw Dennis Schroder at a grocery store in LA earlier this year.. I told him how cool it was to meet him in person, but I didn’t want to be a douche and bother him and ask him for photos or anything. He said, “Oh, like you’re doing now?” I was taken aback, and all I could say was “Huh?” but he kept cutting me off and going “huh? huh? huh?” and closing his hand shut in front of my face. I walked away and continued with my shopping, and I heard him chuckle as I walked off. When I came to pay for my stuff up front I saw him trying to walk out the doors with like fifteen Milky Ways in his hands without paying. The girl at the counter was very nice about it and professional, and was like “Sir, you need to pay for those first.” At first he kept pretending to be tired and not hear her, but eventually turned back around and brought them to the counter. When she took one of the bars and started scanning it multiple times, he stopped her and told her to scan them each individually “to prevent any electrical infetterence,” and then turned around and winked at me. I don’t even think that’s a word. After she scanned each bar and put them in a bag and started to say the price, he kept interrupting her by yawning really loudly.
Title: Assaholics R Us
Post by: chipstern on August 10, 2021, 12:38:49 PM
Quote from: Kam on August 10, 2021, 11:59:40 AM
I actually saw Dennis Schroder at a grocery store in LA earlier this year.. I told him how cool it was to meet him in person, but I didn’t want to be a douche and bother him and ask him for photos or anything. He said, “Oh, like you’re doing now?” I was taken aback, and all I could say was “Huh?” but he kept cutting me off and going “huh? huh? huh?” and closing his hand shut in front of my face. I walked away and continued with my shopping, and I heard him chuckle as I walked off. When I came to pay for my stuff up front I saw him trying to walk out the doors with like fifteen Milky Ways in his hands without paying. The girl at the counter was very nice about it and professional, and was like “Sir, you need to pay for those first.” At first he kept pretending to be tired and not hear her, but eventually turned back around and brought them to the counter. When she took one of the bars and started scanning it multiple times, he stopped her and told her to scan them each individually “to prevent any electrical infetterence,” and then turned around and winked at me. I don’t even think that’s a word. After she scanned each bar and put them in a bag and started to say the price, he kept interrupting her by yawning really loudly.

Holy cow, as the Scooter would say.

Think perhaps Dennis might've displayed some comparable variation on this selfless, team first attitude and innate respect for his fellow man with Earvin Johnson?  I mean, Magic's post-season response to Dennis seemed oddly out of proportion with his contributions on the court, no?   

Compare and contrast DS's churlish, self-absorbed behavior with that of The Greek Freak. 

(https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2019/03/30/PMJS/a79f7fa2-575b-41bc-afc8-0b04e66f4bf6-giannis_hug.PNG?width=660&height=485&fit=crop&format=pjpg&auto=webp)

This 11-year old white girl had spent a considerable amount of time working on a very personal piece of artwork for Giannis, who, being what members of my tribe refer to as a mensch, when presented with this gift from the heart at an autograph/meet & greet session, was genuinely moved and responded in kind, coming out from behind the table to give her an enthusiastic hug, eliciting tears from the little girl and cementing a lifetime of positive memories and a genuine bond between them that will never wane. 

C-H-A-R-A-C-T-E-R

I mean, really, how much more effort does it take to be kind and caring, as opposed to being a self-absorbed,  douche-nozzle?  Stealing candy bars when he is making 15 million a year?

The Celtics have a number of high character guys in Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown. 

If I'm GM Brad Stevens, I bite the bullet, hand the keys to the car back to a resigned Marcus Smart [and Peyton Pritchard and Kris Dunn], as middling and insufficient as that might be, rather than take on someone who is not likely to engender team spirit and chemistry. 

PS: 4 X 84 was insulting to Dennis The Menace, but Julius probably left that much on the table, when he agreed to 4 x 117, saving the Knicks like 80 million over what he could've gotten in the summer of 2022, leaving the team with the financial resources to pursue talent.  Mind you, not like $29 million a year is chopped liver, as the old saying goes, and Julius was amply rewarded for his breakout year, but in extending on his Team First Leadership, he helps to double clutch the emerging Knicks Kultur in a tangible, meaningful way. 

THANKS FOR SHARING, Kam. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on August 10, 2021, 01:34:27 PM
Quote from: Kam on August 10, 2021, 11:59:40 AM
I actually saw Dennis Schroder at a grocery store in LA earlier this year.. I told him how cool it was to meet him in person, but I didn’t want to be a douche and bother him and ask him for photos or anything. He said, “Oh, like you’re doing now?” I was taken aback, and all I could say was “Huh?” but he kept cutting me off and going “huh? huh? huh?” and closing his hand shut in front of my face. I walked away and continued with my shopping, and I heard him chuckle as I walked off. When I came to pay for my stuff up front I saw him trying to walk out the doors with like fifteen Milky Ways in his hands without paying. The girl at the counter was very nice about it and professional, and was like “Sir, you need to pay for those first.” At first he kept pretending to be tired and not hear her, but eventually turned back around and brought them to the counter. When she took one of the bars and started scanning it multiple times, he stopped her and told her to scan them each individually “to prevent any electrical infetterence,” and then turned around and winked at me. I don’t even think that’s a word. After she scanned each bar and put them in a bag and started to say the price, he kept interrupting her by yawning really loudly.

Damn, man, what other stories you keeping from us?!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on August 10, 2021, 01:37:31 PM
BTW, in a post last week, you wrote about the glass half-full, glass half-empty differences in looking at the Knicks. Your line about just taking pleasure in watching the glass fill up was killer. That was a perfect way of putting it. Totally agree.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 10, 2021, 04:07:23 PM
Shroder to Celtics?

Please say it ain't so

Perfect fit.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 10, 2021, 04:15:30 PM
Schroder is pulling a Sprewell style free agency. He should definitely fire his agent and probably cut back on bath salts as well.

Celts would be a really good fit in terms of skills and play style, though with their shaky team culture in the management shift he’s a big risk to blow up their locker room.
Title: L-O-S-E-R
Post by: chipstern on August 10, 2021, 08:01:49 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 10, 2021, 04:15:30 PM
Schroder is pulling a Sprewell style free agency. He should definitely fire his agent and probably cut back on bath salts as well.

Celts would be a really good fit in terms of skills and play style, though with their shaky team culture in the management shift he’s a big risk to blow up their locker room.

This does NOT sound like something an agent would do. 

20 Million Per for Four Years to play with LeBron James on his final championship laps at the LA Forum. 

Saw quotes from him about how his COMING OFF THE BENCH DAYS ARE OVER. 

Hey, for the Celtics, going to war with Enes Kanter, Al Horford, Jayson Tatum, Jaylen Brown and Marcus Smart, is not a bad starting five, plus having Jabari Parker, Grant Williams, Aaron Nesmith, Romeo Parker, Josh Richardson, Kris Dunn and Payton Pritchard is not optimum coming off the bench, this is a transitional year, hoarding cap space, looking to 2022-2023.  Might be on the bubble as far as making it to the playoffs, but having a Top 1-15 pick would not be the worst thing in the world. 

According to Kendrick Perkins, admittedly something of a wind bag, there were chemistry issues last year. 

Hey, Tatum, Brown and Smart are high character guys from where I'm sitting, and so are Enes and Al, whatsoever the limitations in their game might be. 

Develop your young players and look to establish team chemistry moving forward with a new coach. 

Hey, BANK, whatcha think.  Do you really want to put Celtic GREEN on a motherfucker who felt insulted that someone wanted to "only" give him $80,000,000 to make a championship run with LeBron James? 

Sheeeeeet, you won't suck THAT BADLY.  Bobby Portis just signed on for two more years at what, $4.5 million per...per, we will compete for a championship on a winning team in a city I love, and trust the Bucks to break the bank, more or less, when they can according to the rules in the summer of 2023.  Bobby could have commanded some reasonably serious money around the league.  But he looks at Giannis and Kris and Jrue and Brook and thinks, I'M PART OF SOMETHING BIGGER THAN ME. 

Dennis Schroeder is about DENNIS SCHROEDER.  That spells L-O-S-E-R.

Not sure why I'm so obsessing over this, save that Kam's encounter really spooked me.  Cat making 15 million a year stealing candy bars and dissing fans...

A player only someone like Kiid could love. 

Schroeder?  Brad should offer training camp invites to Jeremy Lin and Jimmer Fredette. 

They offered you one year, 5.9 million, Dennis.  Smile for the camera, MF. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 10, 2021, 09:56:04 PM
Smart of him to stay in the league. He could be good value to the Celts.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 10, 2021, 10:10:18 PM
Hawks fans are enjoying their draftees.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 10, 2021, 11:22:09 PM
21, 12 and 8 for the de-cornered Payton Pritchard

Na"Shaun Hyland goes for 16 and 7 in debut.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on August 10, 2021, 11:28:14 PM
Quote
Hey, BANK, whatcha think.  Do you really want to put Celtic GREEN on a motherfucker who felt insulted that someone wanted to "only" give him $80,000,000 to make a championship run with LeBron James? 

Works for me Chip.

1 yr $6M and the guy playing his ass off to get the 4/84MM contract he said no to?

Great value signing by Brad.

He should be motivated to not be an asshole and bust his ass.

He's going to get a lot of minutes to help run an offense, for a team in desperate need of a PG/G, that has some some decent scoring options. Its a good fit. Maye he starts and Smart goes back to the 6th, which worked pretty well for him. And this further sets them up for another major piece either at the trade deadline or more likely next year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 10, 2021, 11:28:38 PM
20 Million Per for Four Years to play with LeBron James on his final championship laps at the LA Forum.


My guess is THE KING treated DS like shit.
Title: The Mature and Hugely Likable Dennis Schroder
Post by: bodiddley on August 11, 2021, 02:29:19 AM
Possibly.
And if so, probably deservedly so.

Here's another odd tidbit:
Quote
Schroder averaged 15.4 points and 5.8 assists in 61 games -- all starts -- for the Lakers, but he was mired in controversy after he missed 11 days late in the regular season after entering the NBA's health and safety protocols. He told a German publication that he and LeBron James were the only Lakers players to not get vaccinated, before then telling local reporters upon his return that, "I'm the only guy that didn't get vaccinated. I'll just leave it at that."

So he rats out and hides behind LeBJ for his own poor decision.  Then backtracks.
Somehow not surprised that Schroder is a non-vaxxer.

Still a good pickup for BOS considering they didn't have a PG, and Schroder is on a  cheap deal looking to have a big contract year.  Though certainly a chance he mucks up Celts fragile chemistry and I doubt he provides any leadership.  Never liked his game, but at least he plays hard.

Kam, you should drop your story on Brad Stevens twitter account.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 11, 2021, 09:43:04 AM
I see Nesmith went off a bit as well (33 points).  Have to check in on one of the Celts contests soon

What happened in Knick game three - or is that today?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 11, 2021, 10:02:00 AM
Schroder averaged 13.3 drives per game last season, more than any Boston player.  He took 35% of his shots from 4 feet and in, compared with 21% for Smart and 21z% for Richardson.   - per HoopsHype
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 11, 2021, 11:59:10 AM
Iggy gets a two-way from the Magic.

Knicks release their hold on Frank who is only just now fully unrestricted.
Title: Re: L-O-S-E-R
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 11, 2021, 12:12:04 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 10, 2021, 08:01:49 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 10, 2021, 04:15:30 PM
Schroder is pulling a Sprewell style free agency. He should definitely fire his agent and probably cut back on bath salts as well.

Celts would be a really good fit in terms of skills and play style, though with their shaky team culture in the management shift he’s a big risk to blow up their locker room.

This does NOT sound like something an agent would do. 

20 Million Per for Four Years to play with LeBron James on his final championship laps at the LA Forum. 

Saw quotes from him about how his COMING OFF THE BENCH DAYS ARE OVER. 

Hey, for the Celtics, going to war with Enes Kanter, Al Horford, Jayson Tatum, Jaylen Brown and Marcus Smart, is not a bad starting five, plus having Jabari Parker, Grant Williams, Aaron Nesmith, Romeo Parker, Josh Richardson, Kris Dunn and Payton Pritchard is not optimum coming off the bench, this is a transitional year, hoarding cap space, looking to 2022-2023.  Might be on the bubble as far as making it to the playoffs, but having a Top 1-15 pick would not be the worst thing in the world. 

According to Kendrick Perkins, admittedly something of a wind bag, there were chemistry issues last year. 

Hey, Tatum, Brown and Smart are high character guys from where I'm sitting, and so are Enes and Al, whatsoever the limitations in their game might be. 

Develop your young players and look to establish team chemistry moving forward with a new coach. 

Hey, BANK, whatcha think.  Do you really want to put Celtic GREEN on a motherfucker who felt insulted that someone wanted to "only" give him $80,000,000 to make a championship run with LeBron James? 

Sheeeeeet, you won't suck THAT BADLY.  Bobby Portis just signed on for two more years at what, $4.5 million per...per, we will compete for a championship on a winning team in a city I love, and trust the Bucks to break the bank, more or less, when they can according to the rules in the summer of 2023.  Bobby could have commanded some reasonably serious money around the league.  But he looks at Giannis and Kris and Jrue and Brook and thinks, I'M PART OF SOMETHING BIGGER THAN ME. 

Dennis Schroeder is about DENNIS SCHROEDER.  That spells L-O-S-E-R.

Not sure why I'm so obsessing over this, save that Kam's encounter really spooked me.  Cat making 15 million a year stealing candy bars and dissing fans...

A player only someone like Kiid could love. 

Schroeder?  Brad should offer training camp invites to Jeremy Lin and Jimmer Fredette. 

They offered you one year, 5.9 million, Dennis.  Smile for the camera, MF. 

A- unfair assessment on Schroeder

B - Celts not as bad as you say

C - it's Langford, not Romeo Parker
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 11, 2021, 12:14:10 PM
No way of knowing if Thibs agrees - but I take Schroder over Walker for this year if looking to max wins/playoff run.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 11, 2021, 03:15:47 PM
You’d also put Jimmer Fredette on an NBA roster, which shows what you know.

Frank joining Trevor Ariza in LA to chase a ring seems like a good move for all parties.
Title: Modified Name, Same LAME Game
Post by: chipstern on August 11, 2021, 04:28:44 PM
Kid VS. Kiid

Same lame game, less filling, more shilling. 

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_e-y-Rrz58H4/SKOL2T6x2MI/AAAAAAAAAO8/qIemgmLNLiI/w1200-h630-p-k-no-nu/STguys.gif)

Touts Schroeder over Walker. 

Why am I not surprised? 

Can't bear to not have Chip's attention? 

Awwwwwww...

ThereThere...we understand, Lover. 

Good thing I'm vaccinated. 

(https://www.chicagotribune.com/resizer/1qSH_5W8AWwEd1hoXbUq0abSQsw=/415x618/top/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/tronc/4FDXCOZWFJBXPNFBBWUPQFCMXA.jpg)

KAM, remind me again: how does one invoke the IGNORE feature to send this QAnon Flavored Star Dreck AssClown back to his womb with a view?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Hamilton Samuels on August 11, 2021, 05:53:55 PM
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/567416-two-coaches-charged-with-murder-in-basketball-players-death-after (https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/567416-two-coaches-charged-with-murder-in-basketball-players-death-after)

Two basketball coaches in Georgia have been charged with murdering a 16-year-old girl after she died following an outdoor practice in extreme heat, NBC News reported Wednesday.

Larosa Maria Walker-Asekere and Dwight Broom Palmer have been charged with second-degree murder, second-degree child cruelty, involuntary manslaughter and reckless conduct, according to the news outlet.

A Clayton County grand jury returned an indictment charging the two in connection to the August 2019 death of Imani Bell, a student at Elite Scholars Academy who died after an outdoor girls' basketball practice. The heat index in the Jonesboro area that day, which is where the school is located, reached 106 to 108 degrees.

Fry 'em.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 11, 2021, 08:43:07 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 11, 2021, 03:15:47 PM
You’d also put Jimmer Fredette on an NBA roster, which shows what you know.

Frank joining Trevor Ariza in LA to chase a ring seems like a good move for all parties.

Jimmer II just signed with Lakers
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 11, 2021, 08:45:56 PM
Quote from: Hamilton Samuels on August 11, 2021, 05:53:55 PM
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/567416-two-coaches-charged-with-murder-in-basketball-players-death-after (https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/567416-two-coaches-charged-with-murder-in-basketball-players-death-after)

Two basketball coaches in Georgia have been charged with murdering a 16-year-old girl after she died following an outdoor practice in extreme heat, NBC News reported Wednesday.

Larosa Maria Walker-Asekere and Dwight Broom Palmer have been charged with second-degree murder, second-degree child cruelty, involuntary manslaughter and reckless conduct, according to the news outlet.

A Clayton County grand jury returned an indictment charging the two in connection to the August 2019 death of Imani Bell, a student at Elite Scholars Academy who died after an outdoor girls' basketball practice. The heat index in the Jonesboro area that day, which is where the school is located, reached 106 to 108 degrees.

Fry 'em.



Sad

Murder is such a misplaced word here
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on August 11, 2021, 11:25:04 PM
Yeah, I thought that was curious. Even 2nd degree murder involves intention. These actions seem closer to manslaughter, and the other charges.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on August 12, 2021, 12:18:17 AM
Mr. McBride!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 12, 2021, 12:30:42 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 11, 2021, 08:43:07 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 11, 2021, 03:15:47 PM
You’d also put Jimmer Fredette on an NBA roster, which shows what you know.

Frank joining Trevor Ariza in LA to chase a ring seems like a good move for all parties.

Jimmer II just signed with Lakers

I didn’t know Patton Oswalt had taken up basketball.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 12, 2021, 01:08:23 AM
Quote from: elephant on August 12, 2021, 12:18:17 AM
Mr. McBride!

The young man’s got potential, for sure.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 12, 2021, 02:26:34 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 12, 2021, 01:08:23 AM
Quote from: elephant on August 12, 2021, 12:18:17 AM
Mr. McBride!

The young man’s got potential, for sure.

The young man is a DAWG.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 12, 2021, 02:32:31 AM
I’ll give him puppy. This was summer league against the LA Patton Oswalts.
Title: Just to rankle Chip
Post by: bodiddley on August 12, 2021, 03:06:54 AM
I'd rather have Bogdonavich than Fournier.
Better passer and defender.  Equivalent shot creator and shooter.

I was impressed with Bogs on ball D in the playoffs, especially when switched on to bigger mofos trying to post him up.  Hope his knee is okay ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 12, 2021, 03:23:38 AM
Atlanta will be bidding on his services again in two seasons. He’s a good wing though.

Our guards looked really good against the buttery soft summer Lakers’ backcourt. Joel Ayayi looked to be the best of their bunch.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 12, 2021, 12:04:12 PM
I'd rather have Bogdonavich than Fournier.


ummm....

ok

Was that a choice we had?
Title: Say whaaat?
Post by: carlos123 on August 12, 2021, 02:08:15 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on August 12, 2021, 12:04:12 PM
I'd rather have Bogdonavich than Fournier.


ummm....

ok

Was that a choice we had?

Was that supposed to be a clever question?

... stable genius#2
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 12, 2021, 02:20:08 PM
Well...simpleton Los -

We may very well have had a choice to add Schroder instead of Walker

Not the same with Bogdo, who was ON a roster.

As you were.
Title: Stable Genius Chamaco
Post by: carlos123 on August 12, 2021, 02:27:00 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on August 12, 2021, 02:20:08 PM
Well...simpleton Los -

We may very well have had a choice to add Schroder instead of Walker

Not the same with Bogdo, who was ON a roster.

As you were.

Right, and ONLY you know that Bogdanovich was on a roster, therefore your thinking that you're another stable genius for pointing out the obvious.

Lordy, having to explain this! Talk about simpleton.
Title: Re: Just to rankle Chip
Post by: chipstern on August 12, 2021, 02:44:47 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 12, 2021, 03:06:54 AM
I'd rather have Bogdonavich than Fournier.
Better passer and defender.  Equivalent shot creator and shooter.

I was impressed with Bogs on ball D in the playoffs, especially when switched on to bigger mofos trying to post him up.  Hope his knee is okay ...

Bo, you give exemplary rankle. 

Not unlike Jesus' Moms, another classic example of someone sticking to their story...

PS: BB did indeed look excellent in the playoffs. 

PPS: You're slipping.  Forgot to agitate for Haliburton over Toppin.  Meanwhile, Toppin is progressing and we appear to have done well to follow THIBS' lead in agitating for Miles McBride, who based on the scant and suspect evidentiary twaddle of summer league seems to have the makings of a solid two-way guard on both sides of the ball.  Starting with defense, ending with defense, with a sidecar of shooting tossed in for good measure. 

PPPS: You could have taken a page out of Kid/Kiid's book and just gone full out contrarian douche, but perhaps you are guided my some inner principles other than sheer Trumpian douchebaggery. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 12, 2021, 04:02:19 PM
When BB was shopping, Atlanta was his second choice after the Bucks. That summer we were expected to continue our streak of hot garbage while Atlanta offered him an opportunity to slot next to Trae, be protected by Capela and a lesser extent Collins while having young bucks to take defensive assignments over his ability and shooters all around.

Maybe we could have lured him with a near max contract, but then he’d be much harder to construct a winning roster with than he is now.

I’m pretty OK with RJ, Fournier, Burks, Grimes, and Knox seeing what they can do.
Title: Rankling BoD
Post by: chipstern on August 12, 2021, 05:13:12 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 12, 2021, 04:02:19 PM
When BB was shopping, Atlanta was his second choice after the Bucks. That summer we were expected to continue our streak of hot garbage while Atlanta offered him an opportunity to slot next to Trae, be protected by Capela and a lesser extent Collins while having young bucks to take defensive assignments over his ability and shooters all around.

Maybe we could have lured him with a near max contract, but then he’d be much harder to construct a winning roster with than he is now.

I’m pretty OK with RJ, Fournier, Burks, Grimes, and Knox seeing what they can do.

For what we might've given to BB, we signed Burks, Noel, Taj and Elfrid. 

We pretty much re-upped Burks and Noel for BB money, saving a year's commitment on the back end with team options. 

Cutting loose Elfrid and Frank paid for Rose's re-up. 

Icing our #19 pick for, perhaps, one season, and moving down from 21 to 25 paid for one more year of Taj's insurance/mentoring and added Quentin Grimes. 

Converting #32 to #34-36 got us THIBS' love child Deuce McBride and a promising Lithuanian PG in Rokas Jokubaitis. 

Oh, and with the remainder of our cap space, we inked Evan Fournier and KEMBA WALKER. 

So yeah, BB is a damn nice player, but his long term signing would've hamstrung us going into 2021-2022, denied us a year to evaluate Randle, Noel, Burks and Rose, let alone Quickley and Toppin. 

You seem to think that BB represents a significant greater skill set than Fournier.  Stat wise, he surely benefitted from the chemistry of playing with Trae Young. 

Woulda
Coulda
Shoulda

I am cool with the cumulative totality of The Knicks' moves.  Randle gave us a hometown discount, we maintained continuity and rewarded competency, got a solid contingent of draftees to develop and brought back a hometown hero to form a veteran PG platoon with another reclamation product, and mentor our young combos. 

PS: All during the Finals I thought of BoD and his incessant carping about Bobby Portis every time he made a winning contribution to the Bucks championship run.  Perhaps, you were wrong.  PERHAPS?
Title: Rokas Pocus
Post by: Kam on August 12, 2021, 06:22:08 PM
I want him to make the roster just so Clyde can say 'A little Hocus Pocus from Rokas!'
Title: Re: Rokas Pocus
Post by: chipstern on August 12, 2021, 06:59:13 PM
Quote from: Kam on August 12, 2021, 06:22:08 PM
I want him to make the roster just so Clyde can say 'A little Hocus Pocus from Rokas!'

Would like to see him stick.

But probably makes more sense for Rokas to get consistent  minutes in Barcelona

He looked good in his cameo yesterday.

Two sweet treys and a steal.

Admittedly a rather small sample.  Though surely enough for  BoD to dismiss him.

Onwards.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 12, 2021, 07:24:28 PM
MILES ahead of Vildoza
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 12, 2021, 07:36:11 PM
What time we play?

Day off?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 12, 2021, 07:44:12 PM
Pistons are up next. I believe it’s tomorrow.

Chip, Randle didn’t give us a home team discount. He gave us a good team / personal legacy opportunity discount. He didn’t give his home team the time of day. His home team is still trying to figure out how to unload KP and thereby keep Luca happy.
Title: The Rich Get Richer
Post by: chipstern on August 12, 2021, 07:44:22 PM
Cam Thomas is a MF.
Title: KP
Post by: carlos123 on August 12, 2021, 08:03:27 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 12, 2021, 07:44:12 PM
Pistons are up next. I believe it’s tomorrow.

Chip, Randle didn’t give us a home team discount. He gave us a good team / personal legacy opportunity discount. He didn’t give his home team the time of day. His home team is still trying to figure out how to unload KP and thereby keep Luca happy.

At this point, I'd be trying to unload KP also, Luca or no Luca.

Though I love the Kamster's motto of KP tosses salads in Dallas.

But surely he can come up with something for the next city.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 12, 2021, 08:08:47 PM
No real discount given by Julius

Got what he is worth.
Title: Re: Modified Name, Same LAME Game
Post by: carlos123 on August 12, 2021, 09:31:48 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 11, 2021, 04:28:44 PM
Kid VS. Kiid

Good thing I'm vaccinated. 

(https://www.chicagotribune.com/resizer/1qSH_5W8AWwEd1hoXbUq0abSQsw=/415x618/top/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/tronc/4FDXCOZWFJBXPNFBBWUPQFCMXA.jpg)


When quoting stable genius #2, I have them as chamacocartero7 AND chamaacocarero8.

chamacocartero8 signs off "- Chamaco's Patriotism is only for the white race. -"

chamaacocartero8's signature is too long and stoopid to use.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 12, 2021, 11:11:40 PM
A lot of high picks are getting dinged up.

The best ability is availability.
Title: Free ObiT
Post by: bodiddley on August 13, 2021, 02:10:35 AM
If we drafted TyH, then I was advocating for FVV and not Bog as a FA.  Bog & tyH similar players.

I still don't get the ObiT pick.
Randle is a one position PF, so we used a high pick for another one position PF.
Essentially drafting a backup with a high pick.
Aside from Chip's nonsense that ObiT can become a Taj-like player, ObiT is not a fill-in C or SF.  And is not court compatible with Julius.

So we are either content having a purely backup PF, or ObiT is a trade asset.  (I saw a claim on cbsports that Knix brought in Fournier as a trade piece, readying for a Lillard or other star package).

These days, teams are looking for multi-position guys who can switch on D in this PnR league.  While plenty of capable PF's are available every year.  Christian Wood, Markk, Jer Grant, Milsap, Olynyk, Batum, A Gordon, Crowder, Covington, etc at varying prices, mostly between the two MLE ranges.  And others on the low end down to vet min: Tank, Paschall, JaMike, Saric, Bjelica, DJ Wilson.

Point being, backup PF is an easy slot to fill, either on the cheap on up to $10M-$12M (or Gallo for $20M!).  Especially for guys who are only PF's and not multi-positional.  Stuck behind Randle, it's hard to see how ObiT can up his value much. And the 2nd unit ObiT is on is full of scorers in Quix / Rose / Burks, so that likely limits Toppings as well.  Free ObiT!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 13, 2021, 03:01:01 AM
Quote
Two sweet treys and a steal.
Admittedly a rather small sample.  Though surely enough for  BoD to dismiss him.

I'd look at form more than whether they go down.

Then again I recall seeing Kevin Martin live in a pre-season SAC-HOU game in SH, and despite his weird form, he was lights out, and you could tell he'd have a 10 year NBA career, despite being the #26 pick.

Sometimes it's fun to make quick judgments. 

I recall seeing Kurt Hinrich in something like his 3rd NBA game.  A skinny kid starting at PG.  And at one point, he got double-teamed in the corner, forced to pick up his dribble. With the trap on top of him, Kurt wasn't even visible.  Then he slithered his torso between the defenders and made a clean pass.  And suddenly the Bulls had a 4 on 3 transition advantage.   And I thought, okay the kid is solid, knows how to play, didn't get rattled.  Will have a solid career.  Was a starter for 11 years.

Feel for the game is important.  Which is why it was clear that Jordan Hill was a mirage.  (still the only player I know who looked bad in his own college highlight reel!).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 13, 2021, 10:41:34 AM
On Toppin

At 8, Knicks were looking for a knock it out of the park pick - a sensation

Felt Obi had more of a chance than Ty or others

Had little to do with position.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 13, 2021, 10:49:11 AM
16.3 career PER for J Hill

Maxed at 19+

You go on liking what you like, Bo.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 13, 2021, 11:36:29 AM
Jordan Hill:
4 teams in 7 years (leaving off his final year at MIN where he played just 7 games). Out of the League at 29.  Solid offensive rebounder.

Had one year where he was a fulltime starter for LAL.
Hill only got that opportunity because Julius Randle broke his leg 14 minutes into his career.  That team won 21 games.  With Old Kobe returning midseason from his Achilles rupture and shooting terribly.
Next year Hill was in IND.  Then gone.

Interestingly, Jordan Hill is cousins with Devin Booker, both from the Carolinas.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 13, 2021, 02:42:25 PM
Google Steve Nash + Jordan Hill

Torn hip labrum cost 2/3 season.

Off court issues after the 107 mph speeding ticket?  Not sure.

Left Lakers with player option.  LA may have been the place to stay.
Title: Still Dead After All These Years
Post by: chipstern on August 13, 2021, 07:13:08 PM
(https://cdn.britannica.com/s:300x169,c:crop/80/680-050-FC86F569/Francisco-Franco-1954.jpg)

(https://s.wsj.net/public/resources/images/NY-CF005_SPRTS__DV_20130228172336.jpg)

(https://media.bleacherreport.com/w_800,h_533,c_fill/br-img-images/003/579/024/hi-res-68c8dfad7b2b9200b017c743521099b6_crop_north.jpg)

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQypn-6qEeDRpJlHOYC9-XMuBb__c3Fk3OmUScO1K8hh_CXvizmkb_nrVP2f4ljduqvPlk&usqp=CAU)

(https://images2.minutemediacdn.com/image/upload/c_fill,w_720,ar_16:9,f_auto,q_auto,g_auto/shape/cover/sport/New-York-Knicks-Press-Conference-65e9c85598544cf42963d40c68cfc5c4.jpg)
Title: Still Dead
Post by: chipstern on August 13, 2021, 07:30:00 PM
(https://minnesotareformer.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/mike-lindell-and-donald-trump.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 13, 2021, 08:18:44 PM
OMG

Quickley TRYING to run a team

Fugggggly.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 13, 2021, 09:26:09 PM
Knicks dodged a bullet - Killian Hayes is another CP.




- Can't play
Title: Re: Still Dead
Post by: carlos123 on August 13, 2021, 09:56:18 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 13, 2021, 07:30:00 PM
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLWCYbUqY5NfDLR6oVBRnqyL522PnLDXWEwl0vhbigqN4g03BahsESH8hBuw8tSH8GCmnOdr00bWrpCeZcTnk8qKyc2GZw6aK53u0edPC2JWNoNCnMeaq1i7i-dsMGLqREFrZD9TygAwMGaEHtYVdyZY=w1100-h720-no?authuser=0)

Just thought your pic was missing a little something...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 13, 2021, 10:34:29 PM
Impressed tonight with Selden, McBride, Grimes and of course Toppin.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 13, 2021, 10:40:08 PM
Kiid is just getting used to his post-trump role as a violated rectum. He’s available if you know someone who needs a place to stub out a cigarette or hock a really thick gob of spit. He doesn’t expect to make as much as Giuliani does on Cameo, but losers take what they can get.

Spirited effort from Obi against the Pistons, despite very shaky games from Quick and McBride. We really missed Sims. Any report on why he was out?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 13, 2021, 10:43:38 PM
Watching Ried Travis play basketball is like listening to Kiid trying to have a conversation. It just doesn’t go well and no one ever wants it to happen again. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 13, 2021, 10:54:10 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 13, 2021, 10:40:08 PM
Kiid is just getting used to his post-trump role as a violated rectum. He’s available if you know someone who needs a place to stub out a cigarette or hock a really thick gob of spit. He doesn’t expect to make as much as Giuliani does on Cameo, but losers take what they can get.

Spirited effort from Obi against the Pistons, despite very shaky games from Quick and McBride. We really missed Sims. Any report on why he was out?

Rest.
Title: Chamaco RIP
Post by: carlos123 on August 14, 2021, 12:05:37 AM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on August 13, 2021, 10:54:10 PM
Rest.

In Peace
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 14, 2021, 01:13:38 AM
It was actually a concise and accurate answer to the question.

According to the team, the Knicks were resting Jericho Sims tonight. The
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 14, 2021, 09:20:10 AM
I had Okoro, Killer Hayes and Jalen Smith as the the bad picks in the Top 10 of the 2020 draft.  Admittedly, I knew next to nothing about Pat Williams, as he was rising late on draft boards and Knix needed to draft anything but a PF ...

Seemed like TyH was a perfect pick for PHX, to slot in as a backup combo guard with an all around game.  Then they drafted Jalen Smith, who was useless and mostly injured during their storied season.  Having TyH might have turned the Finals, especially after Dev Book had his face rearranged in the semi-finals.  And to take a little pressure off of Chris Paul.

I thought Okongwu and Avdija went to perfect situations and would be more NBA ready.  Avidja and TyH were touted as the most NBA ready prospects.

I was high on LaMello, TyH, Vassell and Okongwu.

And while DET took a risk on Hayes, they did a nice job of mid-round drafting nabbing Saddiq Bey at #19 and Isaiah Stewart at #16.
Never understand why strong shooters like Bey got so late #19 with Des Bane down at #30.  Good shooting is a skill which usually translates well to the modern NBA.  Especially if you have good size/body such as Bey and Bane.
Bane's shooting splits 47%/ 43%/ 81%
Title: Sorry Chamaco
Post by: carlos123 on August 14, 2021, 01:18:47 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 14, 2021, 01:13:38 AM
It was actually a concise and accurate answer to the question.

According to the team, the Knicks were resting Jericho Sims tonight. The

Well, it caught me by surprise. My apologies to chamacocartero8
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 14, 2021, 02:16:25 PM
Could Jalen Johnson have been Knix long term answer at SF?
Drafted #20 by ATL, so Knix could have had him at #19.
Was seen as a lottery talent with some issues (bailed on Duke).
I haven't seen him yet.
19, turns 20 in December.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 14, 2021, 03:42:03 PM
Jalen Smith looked good vs Bol Bol the other night

Not to be confused with the Sun's other Jalen Smith.  Heh.

Payne of course played the role deliciously for Sun's, what you in retrospect had Ty H excelling at, BoBo.
Title: NY Celtics ?
Post by: bodiddley on August 14, 2021, 04:54:32 PM
If you're watching exhibition game,s might as well check out the Celtics v. The Harem Globetrotters in the Trotters 1951 film (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sIxwmQakVw).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 14, 2021, 04:55:41 PM
CamPayne a backup PG; TyH a wing.
Different roles.

I thought it was shocking that TyH feel to PHX and they passed.
Kind of like when TOR passed on Danny Granger twice way back.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 14, 2021, 06:29:46 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 14, 2021, 02:16:25 PM
Could Jalen Johnson have been Knix long term answer at SF?
Drafted #20 by ATL, so Knix could have had him at #19.
Was seen as a lottery talent with some issues (bailed on Duke).
I haven't seen him yet.
19, turns 20 in December.

Johnson looks good so far. McMillan will have fun with him if he earns trust.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 14, 2021, 10:07:06 PM
Johnson with another nice one.

Knick draftees along with Toppin also looked good in a win against the Cavs. Quickley with his rest day gave McBride and Grimes room to shine which they did. Obi was a bit sloppy still, but he was still effective. No Mobley for the Cavs, but they trotted out three guys with NBA experience which let them stay competitive though they were down by 20 to our summer Knicks at one point.

I don’t know if this puts us in the summer league playoffs or not. Nice contributions from Walker, Simms, and Hall off the bench.
Title: Guess What?
Post by: chipstern on August 14, 2021, 10:11:24 PM
It occurs to me that we copped Immanuel Quickley, Rokas Jokubaitis and Miles McBride as draft capital we got back from the Clippers in the Morris trade. 

Not too shabby. 

Quentin Grimes and Deuce McBride looking confident and aggressive and purposeful out there tonight, and Obi with a solid second half, justifying BoD's unwavering faith in his talent. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 14, 2021, 10:36:14 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 14, 2021, 10:07:06 PM
Johnson with another nice one.

Knick draftees along with Toppin also looked good in a win against the Cavs. Quickley with his rest day gave McBride and Grimes room to shine which they did. Obi was a bit sloppy still, but he was still effective. No Mobley for the Cavs, but they trotted out three guys with NBA experience which let them stay competitive though they were down by 20 to our summer Knicks at one point.

I don’t know if this puts us in the summer league playoffs or not. Nice contributions from Walker, Simms, and Hall off the bench.

This was a really deep, talented draft. 

Clearly some talent which fell out of the draft as well.  M.J. Walker, big shooting guard from Florida State, a team mate of Scottie Barnes, hit 3-3 from trey, with 5 boards, 2 steals and a block in 20 minutes. 

Grimes was 28-6-4-1 and remained aggressive...someone must've told him, KEEP SHOOTING. 

Deuce was 23-4-5-2-1. 

Obi 21-4-2, hit all three FTs and 2-4 treys.  Nice assist on the ball moving around the horn, when he passed on a good shot from this three in the corner pocket face up, to Grimes in the deep corner. 

PS: It is inevitable that we will engage in the wouldacouldashoulda game, as nice talent up and down behind 19, 21 and 32, but Grimes and McBride [and IQ] are solid young players to bring up behind Fournier, Burks, Barrett, Rose and Walker, as is Obi behind Randle, and Jericho behind Nerlens and Mitchell. 

PPS: Liked what I saw of that Turkish center the Rockets took at 16 who talks to the basketball at the FT line.  He is a masher and a rebounding beast in the box, good for 6-8-10-12 trips to the FT line per game.  And that center the Pistons drafted at what, #52, Garza is it?  Not the most nimble footed motherfucker I've ever seen, a very skilled center, dropped 25 pounds since the college season ended, and looks to be a steal for the Pistons, who have assembled a very, very nice core of young talent.  Watching Cade standing eye to eye with Obi took my breath away.  That level of skill at that level of SIZE?  Wow.  Really liked Scottie Barnes on Toronto too.  He's like a 6'9" swiss army knife. 
Title: Back To The Future
Post by: chipstern on August 14, 2021, 11:20:53 PM
(https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/08/1234662340-e1628977725151.jpg?quality=90&strip=all&w=2048)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 15, 2021, 03:15:31 AM
For ObiT, it's mostly a matter of fit.  And PF, especially backup PF, is not a big priority.  As for Summer League, he's 23 going up against mostly 19 year olds.

Quote from: chipstern on August 14, 2021, 10:36:14 PM
Really liked Scottie Barnes on Toronto too.  He's like a 6'9" swiss army knife.
There's been chatter that TOR will move Siakim.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 15, 2021, 11:48:39 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 15, 2021, 03:15:31 AM
For ObiT, it's mostly a matter of fit.  And PF, especially backup PF, is not a big priority.  As for Summer League, he's 23 going up against mostly 19 year olds.

Quote from: chipstern on August 14, 2021, 10:36:14 PM
Really liked Scottie Barnes on Toronto too.  He's like a 6'9" swiss army knife.
There's been chatter that TOR will move Siakim.

Yawn.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 15, 2021, 12:25:05 PM
Summer Knicks vs. Summer Hawks on Monday.
Title: Info
Post by: carlos123 on August 15, 2021, 01:07:05 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 15, 2021, 12:25:05 PM
Summer Knicks vs. Summer Hawks on Monday.

What time and what station please?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on August 15, 2021, 01:14:39 PM
All our rookies look solid. I'm happy with how the draft turned out.

Look, I like watching Toppin. He can make these crazy, athletic plays, and he runs and moves like a big puppy dog. I'm pulling for him.

But is there anyone here who feels strongly that he'll be a starter in the league some day?

I have trouble seeing it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 15, 2021, 01:15:46 PM
Goose Tatum and Marques Haynes were quite masterful.
I grew up in the Meadowlark Lemon/Curly Neal era, and they were imitating and building on Goose and Marques' foundation/repertoire.

1951, so before the shot clock.
Set shots, but also lots of running hooks and flips.
Marques Haynes' flipshot looks a lot like Quickley's floaters.
You get to meet impresario/coach Abe Saperstein too.
While Dorothy Dandridge provides the love interest in the film.
Title: Re: Info
Post by: facilitatorn on August 15, 2021, 02:29:09 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on August 15, 2021, 01:07:05 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 15, 2021, 12:25:05 PM
Summer Knicks vs. Summer Hawks on Monday.

What time and what station please?

7pm EST/4pm PST. ESPN2 has had big gym games live while NBATV has been carrying the ones in the little gym. No indication of which one it is.

McBride and Grimes have solid spot minute chops as spark plugs or stoppers.

I was very happy to see Jericho hit 4-6 fts. He’s playable now. He’ll be unbenchable if he gets his pace and awareness up and hits freebies at a reasonable rate. He’s a really technical screener and low box operator who has the strength and poise to catch tough passes and loose balls. He gives Mitch someone to compete with physically for the first time in his career which should be good for both player’s development.

Rokas looked good, got a summer of closeup looks at the top of the ladder and goes right to an organization that can help him lift his game.

I’m stuck between Walker out of FSU and Simms out of Clemson for the second two-way spot. They are both well coached. Simms has the body, Walker has the motor. They both can shoot.

Obi’s quickest path to a starting role is to effectively defend wings. He won’t likely ever be great at it, but he’s made strides and can make more. Then he can take advantage of his gifts and cause real problems on the other end. He needs to add 3/4 to his current stretch 4 game.

It will be interesting to see how rotations shake out at camp.

My current read:

Mitch Noel Taj
Randle Obi Knox
RJ Burks
Fournier IQ Grimes
Rose Walker McBride Vildoza

Sims

Walker or Simms, though I’d take either one over Vildoza at this point.
Title: SF
Post by: chipstern on August 15, 2021, 06:19:13 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 15, 2021, 02:29:09 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on August 15, 2021, 01:07:05 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 15, 2021, 12:25:05 PM
Summer Knicks vs. Summer Hawks on Monday.

What time and what station please?

7pm EST/4pm PST. ESPN2 has had big gym games live while NBATV has been carrying the ones in the little gym. No indication of which one it is.

McBride and Grimes have solid spot minute chops as spark plugs or stoppers.

I was very happy to see Jericho hit 4-6 fts. He’s playable now. He’ll be unbenchable if he gets his pace and awareness up and hits freebies at a reasonable rate. He’s a really technical screener and low box operator who has the strength and poise to catch tough passes and loose balls. He gives Mitch someone to compete with physically for the first time in his career which should be good for both player’s development.

Rokas looked good, got a summer of closeup looks at the top of the ladder and goes right to an organization that can help him lift his game.

I’m stuck between Walker out of FSU and Simms out of Clemson for the second two-way spot. They are both well coached. Simms has the body, Walker has the motor. They both can shoot.

Obi’s quickest path to a starting role is to effectively defend wings. He won’t likely ever be great at it, but he’s made strides and can make more. Then he can take advantage of his gifts and cause real problems on the other end. He needs to add 3/4 to his current stretch 4 game.

It will be interesting to see how rotations shake out at camp.

My current read:

Mitch Noel Taj
Randle Obi Knox
RJ Burks
Fournier IQ Grimes
Rose Walker McBride Vildoza

Sims

Walker or Simms, though I’d take either one over Vildoza at this point.

Think it's Fournier and Burks and Knox at SF.

RJ, Quickley and Grimes at SG.

Walker, Rose, McBride at PG.

 Not sure any final decision will be made on Vildoza till training camp.  His second year only becomes guaranteed if he is on the opening night roster.
Title: Just readin some scrollin scores......
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 16, 2021, 10:36:15 AM
Jalen Smith - 17 and 12
Mudiay - 13 and 11
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 16, 2021, 10:44:36 AM
Look, I like watching Toppin. He can make these crazy, athletic plays, and he runs and moves like a big puppy dog. I'm pulling for him.

But is there anyone here who feels strongly that he'll be a starter in the league some day

YES

Thibs should put in some post ups.

Classic old school PF but an athlete, and this is the new NBA - so adjusted his game to be able to handle and play on the perimeter.

Work in progress regarding pace of offensive play, spacing, etc...
Title: Re: Info
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 16, 2021, 10:47:42 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on August 15, 2021, 01:07:05 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 15, 2021, 12:25:05 PM
Summer Knicks vs. Summer Hawks on Monday.

What time and what station please?

Playoff hoops today!!!!

Pacers-Wiz followed by Spurs-Thunder

3PM  NBA TV

THEN KNICKS V HAWKS AT 7pm EASTERN
Title: More box scores
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 16, 2021, 10:51:46 AM
Nah'shon Hyland - 28, 6 and 4

Duarte - 19, 4, 4 - 2 steals

Achiuwa - 18 and 6

Garza - 20 and 14

Too bad we didnt see Mobley
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 16, 2021, 12:20:17 PM
NYK 2nd unit should push the pace.
Quix, ObiT, maybe RJB out in transition.
That's be one way to get ObiT involved and use his strength.


Otherwise Fournier + ObiT for Siakim.
Who's in?  Who hates it?

(yeah, after Dec 15 or whenever allowed)
Title: LAME
Post by: chipstern on August 16, 2021, 12:27:45 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 16, 2021, 12:20:17 PM
NYK 2nd unit should push the pace.
Quix, ObiT, maybe RJB out in transition.
That's be one way to get ObiT involved and use his strength.


Otherwise Fournier + ObiT for Siakim.
Who's in?  Who hates it?

(yeah, after Dec 15 or whenever allowed)

(https://c.tenor.com/RjXfOGuJfF4AAAAC/kurt-angle-thumbs-down.gif)

$33,003,936   $35,448,672   $37,893,408

By all means, let's get rid of our starting small forward. and go all in for another one of those easy to obtain power forwards, and commit to his obscene cap space eating contract.   

Well thought out, Trader Vic. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 16, 2021, 01:12:10 PM
Kiid has been drinking Laura Ingram sperm all day. It has finally rotted out his brain.

If you think he’s bad on basketball, know he’s much worse on any other topic that bubbles out of his cracked cranium.

To his credit, his stupid proposed trade actually includes basketball players, making it more coherent and consistent than anything else he’s put out.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 16, 2021, 01:16:27 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 16, 2021, 01:12:10 PM
Kiid has been drinking Laura Ingram sperm all day. It has finally rotted out his brain.

If you think he’s bad on basketball, know he’s much worse on any other topic that bubbles out of his cracked cranium.

To his credit, his stupid proposed trade actually includes basketball players, making it more coherent and consistent than anything else he’s put out.

Not sure which Kiid brain storm you are referencing, but this Trader Vic wet dream is a product of our most learned colleague, El Beau Of Diddley.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 16, 2021, 01:53:56 PM
Start Siakim at SF, take him out a bit early and then he spells Randle at PF. 
I'd wager Pascal could get 20 at SF and 15 at PF = 35 mins.

Siakim went for 21 / 7 / 4.5 & 1 steal.
Long armed defender who can pass and score.
36% on 3's two years in a row, before slumping largely due to a shoulder injury.

If we threw in Knox we'd move out $30M in salary and take back $33M.
Fournier + ObiT + Knox could get TOR enraptured.

Kemba - Rose - McBride
RJB - Quix - Grimes
Siakim - Burks - (RJB)
Randle - Siakim
Noel - Mitch - Taj

Really like that 2nd unit of Rose - Quix - Burks - Siakim - Mitch
Title: Mismatches Are Us
Post by: chipstern on August 16, 2021, 02:10:25 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 16, 2021, 01:53:56 PM
Start Siakim at SF, take him out a bit early and then he spells Randle at PF. 
I'd wager Pascal could get 20 at SF and 15 at PF = 35 mins.

Siakim went for 21 / 7 / 4.5 & 1 steal.
Long armed defender who can pass and score.
36% on 3's two years in a row, before slumping largely due to a shoulder injury.

If we threw in Knox we'd move out $30M in salary and take back $33M.
Fournier + ObiT + Knox could get TOR enraptured.

Kemba - Rose - McBride
RJB - Quix - Grimes
Siakim - Burks - (RJB)
Randle - Siakim
Noel - Mitch - Taj

Lamer still. 

Siakim is springy and athletic but WILDLY OVERPAID. 

He is a PF, not a SF, when we already have one [two, of course Siakim is an easy fit to project at SF while Obi could neverEVER fit there, right], and not a particularly adept outside shooter [ADEPT?  Try LAME, a paltry .297% from trey last season on 246 attempts, when we have a solid 3-point shooter in Fournier, .416% from trey on 283 attempts] of whom you so rationally disapprove and have Marked with a SCARLETT A in the honored BoD trad of Bobby Portis and Obi Toppin, and you propose making him the most highly paid player on our roster. 

Order some shrimp chow ho fon, and get a good night's sleep. 
Title: Chamaco's "brain"
Post by: carlos123 on August 16, 2021, 02:19:34 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 16, 2021, 01:16:27 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 16, 2021, 01:12:10 PM
Kiid has been drinking Laura Ingram sperm all day. It has finally rotted out his brain.

If you think he’s bad on basketball, know he’s much worse on any other topic that bubbles out of his cracked cranium.

To his credit, his stupid proposed trade actually includes basketball players, making it more coherent and consistent than anything else he’s put out.

Not sure which Kiid brain storm you are referencing, but this Trader Vic wet dream is a product of our most learned colleague, El Beau Of Zizzley.

chamaco's brain farts are so frequent that sometimes we get confused.

I'm confident he forgave me for wishing him a peaceful forever rest, as in RIP.

So now time for him to forgive Fac, if his magnanimity would allow.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 16, 2021, 02:22:22 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 16, 2021, 12:20:17 PM
NYK 2nd unit should push the pace.
Quix, ObiT, maybe RJB out in transition.
That's be one way to get ObiT involved and use his strength.


Otherwise Fournier + ObiT for Siakim.
Who's in?  Who hates it?

(yeah, after Dec 15 or whenever allowed)

Pass.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 16, 2021, 02:28:23 PM
I was very happy to see Jericho hit 4-6 fts. He’s playable now. He’ll be unbenchable if he gets his pace and awareness up and hits freebies at a reasonable rate. He’s a really technical screener and low box operator who has the strength and poise to catch tough passes and loose balls. He gives Mitch someone to compete with physically for the first time in his career which should be good for both player’s development.


I like him

I think he is G League
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 16, 2021, 02:52:19 PM
It was Bo’s trade (no thanks).

Kid gargling Ingram sperm is so stupid it has me attributing any and all bad ideas to him at the moment.

Even with Sims as a two way, he’s working and available more than half the season to push Mitch and Noel and get his Kenny Payne polish on. Big run in the GLeague will help him get up to speed defensively and in condition not to mention more comfy at the stripe.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 16, 2021, 03:08:28 PM
WIZ-INDY gonna be fun

Playoff intensity already palpable.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 16, 2021, 03:09:43 PM
Isiah Jackson - who we passed on - in lineup for Indy
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 16, 2021, 03:16:44 PM
Extra bonus today - first time seeing/hearing this NBATV sideline reporter

https://www.instagram.com/ashleynshahahmadi/?hl=en

https://www.ashleyshahahmadi.com/
Title: TRADE WINDS
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 16, 2021, 03:39:30 PM
New team for Rajon

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/eric-bledsoe-trade-grades-clippers-acquire-pg-from-grizzlies-for-rajon-rondo-patrick-beverley-per-report/?fbclid=IwAR1T3hyIBLQz0mKxis1S_tz18BgKAvjtqRvBjFWKEanQNCbvdz_V3jMD-EQ
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 16, 2021, 03:40:06 PM
I think LAC had enough of Beverley' act
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 16, 2021, 04:03:03 PM
JJ to Knicks (but later on)

During a recent episode of his podcast, The Old Man and The Three, the former Blue Devil addressed his immediate free agency plans for the upcoming year and when he might look to join his next NBA roster. “Just taking my time,” said JJ Redick. “I feel no rush to make any sort of decision on next season. And I felt that way when the season ended, and I feel that way now. My focus right now is just hanging with my family and enjoying the offseason. And we’ll make a decision on next season—what team, what city, etc.—probably sometime in the next two or three months. But, you know, I would say, pretty much definitively, like, I won’t be in a training camp to start the season. That’s not gonna happen. So, you know, I’ll join a team at some point this season and finish the year and try to go get a chip. That’s the plan.” – via John Watson @ 247Sports


Lets go!!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 16, 2021, 04:32:47 PM
JJ doesn’t make our 15. Sorry.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 16, 2021, 05:02:29 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 14, 2021, 04:55:41 PM
CamPayne a backup PG; TyH a wing.
Different roles.



Hmmmm..

Ok
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 16, 2021, 05:04:04 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 16, 2021, 04:32:47 PM
JJ doesn’t make our 15. Sorry.

Good players never do amidst the optimism of summer/preseason

Everyone here is a star.
Title: FIFTEEN
Post by: chipstern on August 16, 2021, 06:10:53 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 16, 2021, 04:32:47 PM
JJ doesn’t make our 15. Sorry.

Love Reddick. 

Skill & Snark. 

Still...

C: Noels, Robinson, Sims

PF/C: Randle, Toppin, Gibson

SF/PF: Knox

SF/SG: Fournier, Burks

SG/SF: Barrett, Grimes

SG/PG: Quickley, McBride

PG: Walker, Rose

Underwhelming showing in the Olympics and Summer League from Vildoza, then got hurt. He has genuine skills, though at this point it is hard to see him moving ahead of Deuce or IQ at the PG/Combo, with RJ and Quentin at SG, let alone Burks when not doubling at SG and SF, let alone emergency PG. If he is gone by opening night, the Knicks owe him nothing for 2021-2022. 

So, perhaps, just perhaps, a roster spot might open up at #15, but hard to see JJ Reddick ponying up to be in street clothes, least ways not unless this Brooklyn resident is sold on participation as some sort of skilled Player/Coach--in case of fire, break glass--entity like Taj Gibson, on board as much to MENTOR as to SCORE.  Certainly would not hurt RJ, IQ, Deuce and Quentin to be mentored by one of the all time great shooters, who over 15 season has basically been a 41% 3-Pt marksman, and a 90% FT shooter. 

More likely, if we part company with Vildoza, who now seems, alas, redundant with the addition of Kemba, Deuce and Quentin, and the emergence of IQ, leave the #15 spot open in case some other more tangible opportunity drops in our lap via buy outs or the waiver wire. 

PS: Then again, why did we just sign 6'6" SG Dwayne Bacon, who put up like 11 ppg in 25 minutes a night, while draining 145-176 FTs over the course of 72 games, for the Orlando Magic [that Scott Perry, Evan Fournier connection]?  And M.K. Walker our of Florida State has shown some skills and cajones in summer league.  So....JJ seems like a stretch. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 16, 2021, 07:45:01 PM
Well, if younwere paying attention - JJ is in no hurry, almost preferring to wait for an injury or deal to open a desired slot

But for now - if you guys insist that Burks is a THREE, I would have JJ as the back up at the 2 guard.

And no - I am in no hurry to add him and demote IQ.   Like I said - IF something should open up...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 16, 2021, 08:45:29 PM
Nice game

Wont spoil the result - for those watching on delay

Enjoyed some players - a guy named Jaworski doin a pretty good Henry Steele impersonation
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 16, 2021, 08:57:27 PM
Jaworski got picked last (you can just tell by looking at him), but he played better than that Cooper kid who wilted, got smushed, and checked himself out.

Nice play from our guards. Special props to Quickley who was positive and impactful even though his shot was off till late. McBride and Grimes showed out.

Our bigs looked slow and clumsy today. Nice job by the Hawks Dukie who showed up, Delaurie, not Johnson. They were still the two best athletes in the game.

Good summer league.

I keep forgetting we added Bacon. He definitely makes it in over Vildoza.

Mitch Noel Taj
Randle Obi Knox
Barrett Burks Bacon
Fournier IQ Grimes
Rose Walker McBride

Sims

I think Vildoza goes back to Europe and realer money rather than stays to take a two-way slot.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 16, 2021, 09:07:29 PM
Mitch Noel Taj
Randle Obi Knox
Barrett Burks Bacon
Fournier IQ Grimes
Rose Walker McBride

Nice.
Title: Likely
Post by: chipstern on August 16, 2021, 09:51:29 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 16, 2021, 08:57:27 PM
Jaworski got picked last (you can just tell by looking at him), but he played better than that Cooper kid who wilted, got smushed, and checked himself out.

Nice play from our guards. Special props to Quickley who was positive and impactful even though his shot was off till late. McBride and Grimes showed out.

Our bigs looked slow and clumsy today. Nice job by the Hawks Dukie who showed up, Delaurie, not Johnson. They were still the two best athletes in the game.

Good summer league.

I keep forgetting we added Bacon. He definitely makes it in over Vildoza.

Mitch Noel Taj
Randle Obi Knox
Barrett Burks Bacon
Fournier IQ Grimes
Rose Walker McBride

Sims

I think Vildoza goes back to Europe and realer money rather than stays to take a two-way slot.

That looks about right. 

Bacon vs. Vildoza? 

Jericho to Westchester.

One more two-way and a mess of 10 Day Contracts. 

PS: DAMN did we knock it out of the park with Quentin Grimes and Miles McBride.  The have skills and they have a competitive attitude. Nicely paired with THIBS.  YES, I can hear an argument for Johnson at #19, but what the hell, leave us not be greedy.  Who knows what might await us in 2022, because I think Charlotte has a shot at being a playoff team. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 16, 2021, 10:17:27 PM
Judging by first looks, Johnson should be a top 10 guy in this class, possibly top 5. He’s in the Kuminga - Barnes conversation, or at least very very close (assuming he’s no head case).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 16, 2021, 10:25:54 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 16, 2021, 10:17:27 PM
Judging by first looks, Johnson should be a top 10 guy in this class, possibly top 5. He’s in the Kuminga - Barnes conversation, or at least very very close (assuming he’s no head case).

Hawks are so fucking loaded at FORWARD that they could roll the dice on a big time talent, and trust the culture to mature him.  Could be the Michael Porter of this draft.  We shall see. 

Meanwhile, Que Sera, because we drafted/scouted REALLY Fucking WELL.

Q and IQ, Joker and the Deuce?

The makings of a dynamic quartet to push Kemba, Rose, RJ and Burks.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 16, 2021, 11:04:32 PM
I think in time we can judge how the players we passed on at 19 perform and would have helped us.

But yes - our 3 draftees look great.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 16, 2021, 11:05:20 PM
I also would love to know what deals we passed on to move up.
Title: The BALLS Of Jehrico
Post by: chipstern on August 16, 2021, 11:25:21 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E88uGIIWQAIlgTa?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 17, 2021, 07:28:14 AM
Scratching the surface, that kid. Kenny Payne and Taj will do him wonders.

For the sake of our arguments, it is my pleasure to present this,

http://www.nba.com/summer-league/2021/vegas/player-stats (http://www.nba.com/summer-league/2021/vegas/player-stats)

This way our overreactions can have a slight statistical common basis.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on August 17, 2021, 11:02:03 AM
Celtics and Knicks do a SnT re Fournier. Celtics get 17m TPE, the Knicks a heavily conditioned 2nd round pick.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 17, 2021, 12:15:24 PM
HoopsHype saying 2 second rounders - doesnt mention protections
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 17, 2021, 12:30:29 PM
One of the players on the 1951 NY Celtics, an early Globetrotters foil, was Tony Lavelli (https://www.nytimes.com/1998/01/13/sports/tony-lavelli-71-musician-with-a-memorable-hook-shot.html).   Lavelli starred for Yale where he broke Mikan's college career scoring record.  A shooting guard well-known for his outside hook shot. 

After college he played for the Boston Celtics for one year, where he negotiated extra pay by offering his services as the halftime entertainment.  With his warmup jacket over his uniform he'd perform some popular songs on the accordion.   The following year, 1950, he joined the NY Knix, which allowed him to train at Juliard.

Those Yalies are sharp.
 
Played 3 years on the NY Celtics, the chronic Harlem Globetrotters opponent of the era.  The teams were segregated, with the entire NY Celtics team white.  Probably a necessity to make money in those days, and cemented the loyalty of black folks.  But with all the travel the Globetrotters did, segregation was just the ugly reality off the day.

1951 was pre shot clock.  And I wish I got a good look at the ball they used, which didn't seem to have noticeable seams.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 17, 2021, 12:50:26 PM
Jarret Culver gets a fresh start - with GRIZZLIES

Goes with Juancho for.......



Pat Beverley


So Grizz get Bledsoe in the draft day deal - then turn him into Rondo, Culver and Hernangomez

Not too bad.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on August 17, 2021, 12:57:27 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on August 17, 2021, 12:15:24 PM
HoopsHype saying 2 second rounders - doesnt mention protections

One's a 55 protected (so it may not convey) and the other is a choice between two picks.   
Title: Re: The BALLS Of Jehrico
Post by: Kam on August 17, 2021, 01:38:36 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 16, 2021, 11:25:21 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E88uGIIWQAIlgTa?format=jpg&name=900x900)


(https://preview.redd.it/hcvjptvwewh71.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=7b9a775736ed19fd51370ae0cd5006d7cb2b361e)
(https://preview.redd.it/k8mevtvwewh71.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=7b3bf3f8da54fcd4bcd06052190013298e972094)
(https://preview.redd.it/z5dz9uvwewh71.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=57aaef755452519d5b9a196f0473f711e020cc5a)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 17, 2021, 02:09:08 PM
White guy alert

Scott Dochterman: Sources: Joe Wieskamp will sign a two-way contract with the @Spurs – via Twitter


Nice.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 17, 2021, 02:10:36 PM
Knicks-Hawks  Christmas - MSG
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 17, 2021, 02:12:31 PM
Spencer Dinwiddie, according to a source, didn’t find the Knicks an appealing fit. The Knicks knew young point guard Cameron Payne, Paul’s backup, wasn’t budging from Phoenix. The Cavaliers wanted too many assets for Collin Sexton, who is soon up for a contract extension. Lonzo Ball, the No. 2 pick in the 2017 draft? The Knicks were intrigued in March but after stronger consideration, they backed off, wanting a ready-made veteran point guard. The Knicks let him go to the Bulls without a fuss, according to a source. Indeed, the Knicks’ choice of Kemba Walker was as unexpected as it was delightful to their giddy fan base. – via Marc Berman @ New York

Thibodeau’s plan for a Walker/Derrick Rose point guard tandem will be of much intrigue since Rose, too, is injury prone after multiple knee surgeries. Thibodeau is expected to talk Tuesday and provide clues as to whether he might split the 48-minute game between the two former All-Stars. It’s unclear if Leon Rose will break his one-year media silence. Load management — an idea Thibodeau detests — may finally reign at the Garden in 2021-22. Walker didn’t play back-to-backs last season for Boston and was forced to miss the final two playoff games against the Nets because of knee pain. – via Marc Berman @ New York Post
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 17, 2021, 02:27:20 PM
Brian Mahoney Kemba piece -


https://www.nba.com/news/kemba-walker-perfect-timing-in-moving-to-knicks
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 17, 2021, 03:55:42 PM
Nice that we got picks for Fournier. Our war chest keeps growing even as we add talent.

Curious to see who we bring to camp.
Title: Second Rounders R US
Post by: chipstern on August 17, 2021, 04:06:12 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 17, 2021, 03:55:42 PM
Nice that we got picks for Fournier. Our war chest keeps growing even as we add talent.

Curious to see who we bring to camp.

This is pretty fascinating. 

https://www.prosportstransactions.com/basketball/DraftTrades/Future/Knicks.htm (https://www.prosportstransactions.com/basketball/DraftTrades/Future/Knicks.htm)

Litany of Knicks future draft picks. 

Brock Aller, Leon's chief strategist and capologist, is a thoughtful fellow.  And Scott Perry just got reupped as GM for a reason. 

All of those second rounders?  Does any of it matter?  More importantly, does BoD care? 

The #58 pick we used to pick Jericho Sims?

Guess what?

The Austin Rivers/Ignas Brazdeikis trade, where we got a couple of bodies we immediately cut, likely for some sort of cap space reasons.  We also got Philly's late second rounder, which at the time, elicited a rousing who gives a fuck from most handicappers. Plus a 2024 second rounder from Philly.   

Likewise, Scott Perry's Marcus Morris trade with the Clippers.  Moe Harkless.

YAWN.

A late first rounder and a second rounder the Clippers copped from Detroit. 

Which yielded Immanuel Quickley, Rokas Jokubaitis and Miles McBride. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 17, 2021, 05:16:54 PM
Well. yeah - I'd have hoped we would get something for Morris.
Title: Kemba back to backs
Post by: Kam on August 17, 2021, 05:50:47 PM
Ian Begley
@IanBegley
·
6h
Kemba Walker was asked if there is a plan for him to sit on second game of back to backs this season. He smiles and says, “You have to ask Thibs”, pointing to Tom Thibodeau in the front row of the press conference. Thibs’ response? “Playing.” A lot of laughter in the room.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 17, 2021, 06:12:58 PM
Kevin Knox is the longest tenured Knick
Title: Taj Gib$on
Post by: Kam on August 17, 2021, 10:14:31 PM
Taj Gibson's deal with the Knicks has been restructured, agent Mark Bartelstein of
@PrioritySports
 tells ESPN: Gibson will now sign a two-year, $10.1M deal to return to New York. He had originally agreed to a one-year deal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 17, 2021, 10:26:26 PM
Nice. He’s getting played to play it sounds like. He’s a dog who makes a difference. Love me some Taj.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 18, 2021, 06:02:31 AM
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2947318-grading-every-top-nba-rookie-at-2021-las-vegas-summer-league (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2947318-grading-every-top-nba-rookie-at-2021-las-vegas-summer-league)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 18, 2021, 09:06:27 AM
Thanks for the link.

I like the Taj adjustment.  We like him, we think he will age well at least another season and be a good piece - so give him the security.

Helps in deals as well (not advocating) if his 5 mil is needed - teams knowing they will have him to use or pass along as a signed guy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 18, 2021, 09:13:40 AM
Wagner, Zaire Williams and Barnes (that he was taken when Suggs was there) are the question marks for me among lottery picks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 18, 2021, 09:15:52 AM
FRom the piece - 2 guys we passed on


Nah'Shon Hyland (Denver Nuggets, SG, No. 26 pick)

Third among rookies in scoring, Hyland lived up to his reputation as a human microwave with creative moves and streak shooting skills. He even averaged 4.8 assists, looking more capable as a playmaker than he did at VCU, where he carried a huge workload as a No. 1 option.

Isaiah Jackson (Indiana Pacers, PF/C, No. 22 pick)

Jackson was active in limited minutes, mostly by tapping into his quickness, bounce and motor for finishes, putbacks and blocks. His plus-13 is tied for second among rookies with teammate Chris Duarte. And he tied a summer-league record with seven blocks on Monday.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 18, 2021, 02:01:51 PM
Nice seeing Sacramento win something

And I was apparently wrong about Davion Mitchell.  Looking forward to seeing him go up against NBA types in a couple of months - see how the max effort translates
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 18, 2021, 02:14:42 PM
Congrats Louie King, formerly of the Westchester Knicks, I believe.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 18, 2021, 02:32:47 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 18, 2021, 02:14:42 PM
Congrats Louie King, formerly of the Westchester Knicks, I believe.

Que?
Title: Reunited And It Feels So Good [Suckling PGs]
Post by: chipstern on August 18, 2021, 02:38:53 PM
Kemba and Derrick's competitive history goes way back. 

(https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/p843x403/237235197_10162484625664616_6503972779131781959_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=l2qsF5UUlLAAX81zyTM&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=95dea6cf4931c29d8440c2c9ccbe2a49&oe=6122AE0D)

Even in their dotage, with the obvious limitations of aging and repaired wheels, a level of skill and level of leadership that can only extend and expand on Thibs Kulture, and successfully suckle Deuce. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 18, 2021, 02:45:01 PM
Damn - that was D Rose at 18?

Cool pic, thanks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 18, 2021, 02:46:26 PM
Started the D Rose book - may be a good time to finish it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 18, 2021, 03:37:26 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 18, 2021, 02:32:47 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 18, 2021, 02:14:42 PM
Congrats Louie King, formerly of the Westchester Knicks, I believe.

Que?

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/10010553-louis-king-wins-mvp-for-2021-las-vegas-nba-summer-league-championship
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on August 19, 2021, 11:45:32 AM
You guys excited about knick showing in vegas?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 19, 2021, 01:53:14 PM
No
Title: Obi In Vegas: HIGHLIGHTS
Post by: chipstern on August 19, 2021, 01:58:50 PM
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=578390876512188&notif_id=1629311139243156&notif_t=watch_follower_video&ref=notif (https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=578390876512188&notif_id=1629311139243156&notif_t=watch_follower_video&ref=notif)
Title: Vegas
Post by: carlos123 on August 19, 2021, 02:13:16 PM
Quote from: luee on August 19, 2021, 11:45:32 AM
You guys excited about knick showing in vegas?

All kinds of reactions. Chip is VERY enthusiastic. But being PP#1, his opinion doesn’t really count in this context.

I don’t know why the Kamster said no. As PP#2, he seemed quite happy too.

BoZizzley just wants to get rid of Obi Toppin.

And chamacocartero8 is waiting to see if we have a consensus, so he can post something opposite with some silly argument, just to show us all that he’s a very stable genius, though not quite as genius or stable as the Trumptin.

Now, how about you?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 19, 2021, 02:37:22 PM
Hell yes.

Our draftees fill some major voids in a group with an otherwise impressive skill set. Our young vets that played showed that they’ve sharpened their bread and butter (I’m not worried about Quickley’s SL shooting. I don’t think it’s relevant to his potential regular role) while also looking more credible in jobs higher in the pecking order.

http://youtu.be/hLnR3rjmILc (http://youtu.be/hLnR3rjmILc)

John Marci and Adam somebody (a Brit Celtics blogger) talk mainly about Kemba and Evan, though mainly about Kemba. They get into minutes, but I think Adam’s observations also impact role.

In Rose and Kemba, we’ve got two great guards who need their minutes managed to keep them effective and available. It looks like the peak efficiency to minimal wear sweet spot is 20-24 minutes a night for each guy.

You can run both at 24 and be done with it. You can allow some space for Deuce or Quick. I think Deuce provides more defensive power against matchups where our two decorated point guards simply can’t slow the other guy down. Quickley showed he can do that to. His D looked a lot better this summer. So, with the young situational guys we have a good path to managing minutes and maxing out play at the position.

This leaves the issue of role between Kemba and Derrick.

Last year, when both were available, Thibs went with Payton against the starters and followed on with Rose. I think he did this under the theory that when a game begins it’s fundamentally trench warfare in terms of who’s going to allow who what space and what constitutes a foul. That physical intensity can stay up through a regular season game, but it’s rare. Usually it shows at a turning point or down the stretch of a close one. Based on this Thibs likes to start the most physical effective player at each spot over someone who can produce more with their knowledge and skill. He still plays and integrates those guys, he just likes to kick ass a bit as a lead in.

Current Kemba is a more potent weapon than current Rose. Neither is as reactively quick as we’d like them to be. Rose’s 6’3”, his familiarity with both the guys and the system make him the better choice to start which would leave Kemba the task of lighting up whatever backup or gassed starter he faces when Thibs pulls the switch while playing what D he can. This looks like an even better option when Fournier stays on the floor through the transition because he is excellent at getting looks for and from Kemba.

Among the wings, this means RJ pulls the tougher defensive assignments. This suggests pulling him with Rose early, after the first mad rush, and putting in Burks. Then we can put RJ back in for Fournier once he’s had a blow. Fournier can then replace Burks to get us back to our starters.

Barrett Burks Barrett Barrett
Fournier Fournier Burks Fournier
Rose Kemba Kemba Rose

This makes for a 9 man core rotation:

Mitch Noel
Randle Obi
Barrett
           Burks
Fournier
Rose Kemba

Taj, Bacon, Grimes, Quickley, and McBride are standby ready plug-n-plays. Knox is extra situational, but has the most positional flexibility on the deep bench. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 19, 2021, 03:49:23 PM
Quote from: Kam on August 19, 2021, 01:53:14 PM
No

Heh

Wanted to see Isiah Jackson
Title: Disappointing post
Post by: carlos123 on August 19, 2021, 04:03:28 PM
Quote from: chamAAcocartero8 on August 19, 2021, 03:49:23 PM
Quote from: Kam on August 19, 2021, 01:53:14 PM
No

Heh

Wanted to see Isiah Jackson

Chamaaco, you sure can do better than this, can't you?

Heh 🧐
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 20, 2021, 04:56:15 AM
Just want to see us get some value out of ObiT.
And I think having him spot up for corner 3's probably isn't enough.
Sure spacing helps our guard-heavy bench unit, but our traditional C counters that.
If ObiT could play small ball C, or SF, we'd have more options.

I already suggested pushing the pace with Quix, RJB/Burks and ObiT in transition.  That'd use ObiT's skillset, and allow him to crash the glass as teams scramble to get into matchups.

Be nice to have ObiT contribute.  Can't rely on Julius and Burks and late career Rose to all have career years again.  Especially since Franc washed out, and Knox is out of the rotation and slipping away.  If we can't unlock ObiT, he likely has more value on a developing team that needs an energetic PF.
Title: Re: Vegas
Post by: luee on August 20, 2021, 08:04:53 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on August 19, 2021, 02:13:16 PM
Quote from: luee on August 19, 2021, 11:45:32 AM
You guys excited about knick showing in vegas?

All kinds of reactions. Chip is VERY enthusiastic. But being PP#1, his opinion doesn’t really count in this context.

I don’t know why the Kamster said no. As PP#2, he seemed quite happy too.

BoZizzley just wants to get rid of Obi Toppin.

And chamacocartero8 is waiting to see if we have a consensus, so he can post something opposite with some silly argument, just to show us all that he’s a very stable genius, though not quite as genius or stable as the Trumptin.

Now, how about you?

Coming off a playoff appearance and saying goodbye to franky and knox I am jacked.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 20, 2021, 12:10:43 PM
Knox is still here
Title: Knox
Post by: chipstern on August 20, 2021, 02:12:57 PM
KK has a different level of skillset than French Frank and has shown improvement.

The blood lust to "get rid" of Knox disturbs me as a rose colored Positive Pussy. 

The main sticking point for KK is D.  Purportedly his "motor" on D. 

For those who weren't paying attention, KK improved his game going to the basket as well as his long range shooting, not to mention his passing. 

Damn shame KK missed Summer League.

He has one more season to win over Thibs.  Before the Knicks have to decide on a qualifying offer. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 20, 2021, 02:19:19 PM
Kevin Knox PER

8.7
8.3
9.1

Shattered that 9 point ceiling in year 3

Heh
Title: Mr. heh#51
Post by: carlos123 on August 20, 2021, 02:36:07 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on August 20, 2021, 02:19:19 PM

Heh

This latest Heh was a masterpiece.

Chamaco becoming a very, VERY stable genius. Gonna surpass the original Trumptin soon 🤩
Title: Poetry
Post by: Kam on August 20, 2021, 03:02:55 PM
Knicks picks knock Knox already nicked stock

For Obi/Grimes are seeing time. 

Kevin's heaven is man eleven.

More Thibodeaux sees he's man fifteen.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on August 20, 2021, 04:11:23 PM
I like Bo's suggestion.

If we don't use Obi creatively, we can't expect to see much improvement.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 20, 2021, 05:10:21 PM
Post ups

Small 5

Yep
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 20, 2021, 05:19:25 PM
In lineups where we’re not asking him to defend an NBA center, sure. Why not?

It’s an open question whether he’s further away from checking 3s or 5s. I think he’ll do a credible job on more small forwards than centers this season. If Jules takes the big and we rim protect by committee, that might also work. Another possibility is playing some kind of back line zone.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 20, 2021, 05:31:20 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 20, 2021, 05:19:25 PM
In lineups where we’re not asking him to defend an NBA center, sure. Why not?

It’s an open question whether he’s further away from checking 3s or 5s. I think he’ll do a credible job on more small forwards than centers this season. If Jules takes the big and we rim protect by committee, that might also work. Another possibility is playing some kind of back line zone.

It has to be as much about them guarding us as vice-versa

Facing the basket (the 3, offensively) is right now not Toppin's strong suit - and he can be a great pick and roll guy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 20, 2021, 05:42:13 PM
Be nice to have ObiT contribute.  Can't rely on Julius and Burks and late career Rose to all have career years again.  Especially since Franc washed out, and Knox is out of the rotation and slipping away.  If we can't unlock ObiT, he likely has more value on a developing team that needs an energetic PF.


Sorry - missed this before

I dont disagree

Where many don't agree with me is on Toppin's value.  I think he is a nice chip.

But...

who then as backup - and scoring - 4?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 20, 2021, 05:44:56 PM
In other words - when we drafted Obi we actually NEEDED a scoring 4 for the second unit.  You just - as a non contender - weren't seeking that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 20, 2021, 09:18:45 PM
MJ Walker of FSU also coming to camp.

He, Vildoza, Simms, Bacon are all not guaranteed, fighting for the last regular spot and the open two-way deal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 20, 2021, 09:37:44 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 20, 2021, 09:18:45 PM
MJ Walker of FSU also coming to camp.

He, Vildoza, Simms, Bacon are all not guaranteed, fighting for the last regular spot and the open two-way deal.

The Vildoza narrative is a wild card.

If I were a betting man, I'd wager on Bacon.  Big guard and that Orlando/Scott Perry connection.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 20, 2021, 09:56:55 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 20, 2021, 09:18:45 PM
MJ Walker of FSU also coming to camp.

He, Vildoza, Simms, Bacon are all not guaranteed, fighting for the last regular spot and the open two-way deal.

Bacon took Exhibit 10.  Makes better than normal G League cash if he stays stateside.

Not sure the size of his bonus

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2019/07/hoops-rumors-glossary-exhibit-10-contract-2.html
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 20, 2021, 10:10:56 PM
Bacon has a minimum main roster contract non-guaranteed with an exhibit 10 option if the big deal isn’t picked up. Thibs will want him on the team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 20, 2021, 10:13:38 PM
With good Knicks health best cheerleader likely gets the spot.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 20, 2021, 10:14:30 PM
Is it strange we have yet to hear rumors surrounding Ntlikina?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 20, 2021, 10:25:55 PM
I still think he winds up on the Lakers.
Title: Gee, where can you find a backup PF?
Post by: bodiddley on August 21, 2021, 02:52:38 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on August 20, 2021, 05:42:13 PM
who then as backup - and scoring - 4?

Easy position to fill on the cheap:
I think Tank and Bjelica are getting the minimum this year.
Trey Lyles, Ojeleye (1/$1.7M), Paschall (#1.7M), JaMike Green are solid fill-ins.
Saric.  Zach Collins got $7M. Jabari Park makes $2.2M

Vets such as Crowder, Batum, Jeff Green have been in play recently.
Or get a 3/4 such as Torey Craig, Juancho, DJ Wilson.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 21, 2021, 03:33:16 AM
Knick schedule out:
https://www.espn.in/nba/team/schedule/_/name/ny

Open the season with plenty of winnable games.
Despite MIL x 2 and PHI x 2 in the first dozen games.
But also ORL x 3 in the first 15 games.
Lotta middling East teams early on.  In fact NOPe the only West team in the first 15 contest. 

Knix face a pair 3-games-in-4-night road trips in DEC.
Middling teams the  first go, then weak sisters the 2nd round, but who needs schedule losses?

FEB looks like a brutal month:

Mon, 24 Jan vs LAC
Tue, 25 Jan @ Cleveland
Thu, 27 Jan @ Miami
Sat, 29 Jan @ Milwaukee

Tue, 1 Feb   vs Sacramento
Thu, 3 Feb   vs Memphis

Sun, 6 Feb   @ LA Lakes
Tue, 8 Feb   @ Utah
Wed, 9 Feb @ Denver
Fri, 11 Feb    @ Golden State
Sun, 13 Feb @ Portland
Tue, 15 Feb vs Oklahoma City
Thu, 17 Feb vs Brooklyn

*** A-S BREAK ***
Sat, 26 Feb vs Miami
Mon, 28 Feb vs Philadelphia
Thu, 3 Mar @ Philadelphia
Sat, 5 Mar   @ Phoenix
Mon, 7 Mar @ LA Clips

From Feb 6 - Mar 7 -- 11 games against top teams plus OKC
A 5 game West Road trip v contenders.
Come home for a 4 game homestand v OKC, BKY, MIA, PHI
Damn
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 21, 2021, 09:56:30 AM

Easy position to fill on the cheap:
I think Tank and Bjelica are getting the minimum this year.
Trey Lyles, Ojeleye (1/$1.7M), Paschall (#1.7M), JaMike Green are solid fill-ins.
Saric.  Zach Collins got $7M. Jabari Park makes $2.2M


Can any scrap heap 4 provide the benefit of Toppin?  Which one of them is running the floor like Obi?  On the scoring end of lobs like Obi?  Swatting shots (potentially) like Obi?

I like this cat as a Knick.  Looking forward to his continuing here post Julius.

Again - unless used in a  deal for a stud.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 21, 2021, 09:58:02 AM
Not something I need to point out to this forum - but Final 8/Final 4/Final 2 type teams have players 6-10 playing with better than average effectiveness.

This is why Frank/Knox were NEVER in my plans with what they were showing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 21, 2021, 11:16:51 AM
Carmelo Anthony has become a likeable sort in his current incarnation - but KNICKS MELO was an ass



Anthony guested in a recent episode of ALL THE SMOKE where he expressed his dismay over the Zen Master’s handling of things with the Knicks. “When Phil came, he was just like, he cut that line of communication off me from the Front Office, from the staff members, even players! You know what I’m saying?” Anthony said on All The Smoke. “The minute that I knew that was the game that was being played, like Nah!” – via Arlos Sara @ Clutch Points

-----

Phil Jackson and Carmelo Anthony’s working relationship was so bad the former chastised the latter several times in public. For Anthony, all these have made him close the door—at least for now—on the idea of patching things up with Jackson. “Nah! I mean, I don’t need closure. … I know if I had a sit-down with you, you wouldn’t say that. You would say something totally different. You’re gonna tell me something like oh it wasn’t like that. I ain’t really got time for that. I don’t need it at this point.” – via Arlos Sara @ Clutch Points
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 21, 2021, 11:26:00 AM
One spot left, apparently

Ian Begley: Knicks announce that they’ve signed MJ Walker, a 6-5 guard out of Florida State. They currently have 19 players under contract. Teams can carry a maximum of 20 players during training camp/preseason. – via Twitter IanBegley
 Free Agency, MJ Walker, New York Knicks
Title: Re: Gee, where can you find a backup PF?
Post by: chipstern on August 21, 2021, 01:02:00 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 21, 2021, 02:52:38 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on August 20, 2021, 05:42:13 PM
who then as backup - and scoring - 4?

Easy position to fill on the cheap:
I think Tank and Bjelica are getting the minimum this year.
Trey Lyles, Ojeleye (1/$1.7M), Paschall (#1.7M), JaMike Green are solid fill-ins.
Saric.  Zach Collins got $7M. Jabari Park makes $2.2M

Vets such as Crowder, Batum, Jeff Green have been in play recently.
Or get a 3/4 such as Torey Craig, Juancho, DJ Wilson.

All of whom have Obi's upside, right? 

Your "points" remain elusive, save to reverse engineer some of your most stubborn positions.  Still chewing over the "logic" of trading for Siakam and his long term multi-billion contract [$33,003,936 $35,448,672   $37,893,408], making him our highest paid untradeable contract [but the Fournier deal is profligate, right?] when we already have a top-tier PF, and a young up and coming PF of whom you disapprove, because, of course, last year's .297 3-point shooting was an injury aberration, but be that as it may, you are confident we could slot him in as the 3&D SF of your dream.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 21, 2021, 01:38:35 PM
Siakam is a complete talent

Which to me makes him an OK add at that price.

No indication Masai is dealing him for lesser guys just yet.  Keep an eye out first 30-35 games.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on August 21, 2021, 01:44:22 PM
This one's for Chip (he appreciates home grown) and Bo (to research)

I posted this elsewhere.

TL's (Elba edit TimeLord) extension along with Smart's got me to pondering (always dangerous) and by my count brings to 8 the homegrown 1st round draft picks on this team. This is almost study worthy, but given FA, the salary cap, and player movement, there can't be too many contender quality NBA teams over the past 40 years (Red's 60s and 70s championships teams were almost all homegrown, with some notable exceptions: Nelson, Howell, Embry, Silas) built almost entirely with 1st round picks.

Whether PBS (EE-Pres Brad) and Coach U find that success remains to be seen, but PBS was CBS and should have a decent handle on chemistry, and which non-draft Celts (Al and Enes) are good fits. But as a long time C's fan, I kind of like it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 21, 2021, 01:52:05 PM
Interesting

But you just have to feel a deal is coming (Smart was dangled for a long time before the extension)

Brad - (unless Celts go out 24-12) - you are ON THE CLOCK.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on August 21, 2021, 02:04:27 PM
Smart's been rumored as tradeable for years but IMO they're mostly hot take/click bait. I've never seen enough smoke to think anything was close to imminent. I could however see him as part of the next big deal though (Beal??) as the Cs could still use a more traditional PG and Marcus in my mind is more 6th man middle-linebacker special teams guy.

And I don't know what time zone your in, but I think Brad's got a lot of time to structure the team that he envisions.
Title: First Rounders
Post by: chipstern on August 21, 2021, 02:11:29 PM
First rounders don't always pan out. 

Sixers had Embid and Simmons, but they also had Okafor, Fultz, Noel. 

Knicks once passed on Nate Thurmond to take Art Heyman. 

But then had a run of excellent luck: 1964, Willis Reed [2], Howie Komives [2]; 1965, Bill Bradley [1], Dave Stallworth [1], Dick Van Arsdale [2]; 1966, Cazzie Russell [1]; 1967, Walt Frazier [1], Phil Jackson [2]

Komives and Walt Bellamy brought us Dave DeB, Cazzie Jerry Lucas, while Stallworht  and Mike Riordan brought back Ear Mnoroe.  We lost Van Arsdale in the expansion draft. 

Over the past 20 years, we traded away many of our best draft picks, such as Trevor Ariza, Channing Frye, David Lee, Danilo Gallinari, Wilson Chandler.  We also rolled the dice and came up craps on Weis, Sweetney, Hill, Balkman, Ntilikina. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 21, 2021, 02:13:02 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on August 21, 2021, 02:04:27 PM
Smart's been rumored as tradeable for years but IMO they're mostly hot take/click bait. I've never seen enough smoke to think anything was close to imminent. I could however see him as part of the next big deal though (Beal??) as the Cs could still use a more traditional PG and Marcus in my mind is more 6th man middle-linebacker special teams guy.

And I don't know what time zone your in, but I think Brad's got a lot of time to structure the team that he envisions.

Beal?

Lavine?

Lillard? 

Click Bait Wet Dreams. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 21, 2021, 02:22:08 PM
Wow

Bank ill-informed (on Smart deals)

I am surprised
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on August 21, 2021, 02:27:05 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on August 21, 2021, 02:22:08 PM
Wow

Bank ill-informed (on Smart deals)

I am surprised

Kid- I don't pay as much attention to clickbait as you do.

Nor do I have the access to the late night deal negotiations and 3-team conference calls you get buzzed in on.

You'll have to share your call notes.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 21, 2021, 02:31:02 PM
Smart in deal for Antonio
Smart for Wiseman
Smart for a lottery pick (2020)
Smart for 2 first rounders (this year)

etc
etc
etc

Should have taken HARDEN + for Jaylen, Smart +
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 21, 2021, 02:33:26 PM
And I don't know what time zone your in, but I think Brad's got a lot of time to structure the team that he envisions.


POSITIVE Stevens isnt just rolling with this group

They will be pretty good most nights

But the East seems wide open, given the teams having so much trouble staying healthy

Damn - even Hawks could sneak in, Heat BACK in - after MIL, BKN, PHI
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 21, 2021, 02:34:16 PM
Fuck - you know INDY and Carlisle are looking top 4 as a goal as well.
Title: Re: First Rounders
Post by: bankshot1 on August 21, 2021, 02:38:31 PM

[/quote]
Quote from: chipstern on August 21, 2021, 02:11:29 PM
First rounders don't always pan out. 

Sixers had Embid and Simmons, but they also had Okafor, Fultz, Noel. 

Knicks once passed on Nate Thurmond to take Art Heyman. 

But then had a run of excellent luck: 1964, Willis Reed [2], Howie Komives [2]; 1965, Bill Bradley [1], Dave Stallworth [1], Dick Van Arsdale [2]; 1966, Cazzie Russell [1]; 1967, Walt Frazier [1], Phil Jackson [2]

Komives and Walt Bellamy brought us Dave DeB, Cazzie Jerry Lucas, while Stallworht  and Mike Riordan brought back Ear Mnoroe.  We lost Van Arsdale in the expansion draft. 

Over the past 20 years, we traded away many of our best draft picks, such as Trevor Ariza, Channing Frye, David Lee, Danilo Gallinari, Wilson Chandler.  We also rolled the dice and came up craps on Weis, Sweetney, Hill, Balkman, Ntilikina.

1st rounders don't always pan out, but having 8 is unusual and most are under control for years, (Tatum Brown, Smart, TL, for several years, Prichard, Romeo, Nesmith, G Williams for 2+ more) which suggests Brad, likes the youth, talent and chemistry of this group. And he brought in Al and Enes for size and clubhouse stuff.

Having said that I could see packaging Smart and some other recent 1st rounders/ or picks if someone attractive comes available.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on August 21, 2021, 02:42:49 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on August 21, 2021, 02:31:02 PM
Smart in deal for Antonio
Smart for Wiseman
Smart for a lottery pick (2020)
Smart for 2 first rounders (this year)

etc
etc
etc

Should have taken HARDEN + for Jaylen, Smart +

HEH

clickbait

just because some moron on the web wrote a wetdream trade scenario doesn't compel me to give it credence.

I think there was a Jaylen plus 3 1s for Butler trade (Bulls) kicked around that the Celts passed on.

I'm not a Harden fan.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 21, 2021, 02:43:24 PM
Having said that I could see packaging Smart and some other recent 1st rounders/ or picks if someone attractive comes available.


Well, no

Smart is your to keep now.

Jaylen in a deal for a stud could happen

More likely three lesser guys go for a vet with not much left on deal

Horford and Schroder were excellent adds.  I dont think 24-12 - somewhere near there early - is out of the question.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on August 21, 2021, 02:54:28 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on August 21, 2021, 02:43:24 PM
Having said that I could see packaging Smart and some other recent 1st rounders/ or picks if someone attractive comes available.


Well, no

Smart is your to keep now.

Jaylen in a deal for a stud could happen

More likely three lesser guys go for a vet with not much left on deal

Horford and Schroder were excellent adds.  I dont think 24-12 - somewhere near there early - is out of the question.

LMAO

kid after telling me all the deals that you negotiated for Smart, you now say its unlikely he could be traded?

Kid right now the Celts have a young teams with 8 1st round picks, including 2 recent all-stars and a 1st team defensive team player.

That's not a bad core to add 5 more young 1st rounders to.

Or as an option to have to consider packaging some combo for another all-star calibre player.

YMMV
Title: Re: First Rounders
Post by: facilitatorn on August 21, 2021, 03:11:31 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on August 21, 2021, 02:38:31 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 21, 2021, 02:11:29 PM
First rounders don't always pan out. 

Sixers had Embid and Simmons, but they also had Okafor, Fultz, Noel. 

Knicks once passed on Nate Thurmond to take Art Heyman. 

But then had a run of excellent luck: 1964, Willis Reed [2], Howie Komives [2]; 1965, Bill Bradley [1], Dave Stallworth [1], Dick Van Arsdale [2]; 1966, Cazzie Russell [1]; 1967, Walt Frazier [1], Phil Jackson [2]

Komives and Walt Bellamy brought us Dave DeB, Cazzie Jerry Lucas, while Stallworht  and Mike Riordan brought back Ear Mnoroe.  We lost Van Arsdale in the expansion draft. 

Over the past 20 years, we traded away many of our best draft picks, such as Trevor Ariza, Channing Frye, David Lee, Danilo Gallinari, Wilson Chandler.  We also rolled the dice and came up craps on Weis, Sweetney, Hill, Balkman, Ntilikina.

1st rounders don't always pan out, but having 8 is unusual and most are under control for years, (Tatum Brown, Smart, TL, for several years, Prichard, Romeo, Nesmith, G Williams for 2+ more) which suggests Brad, likes the youth, talent and chemistry of this group. And he brought in Al and Enes for size and clubhouse stuff.

Having said that I could see packaging Smart and some other recent 1st rounders/ or picks if someone attractive comes available.

 https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/263911/Robert-Williams-Celtics-Agree-To-Four-Year-$54M-Extension (https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/263911/Robert-Williams-Celtics-Agree-To-Four-Year-$54M-Extension)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 21, 2021, 03:13:40 PM
Again, the problem is that ObiT's upside on these Knix is as a 15 min a night backup PF.  No matter how good he does, how does he get beyond that?  How does he reach a high level limited like that?  Sure, maybe you find an extra 5-7 mins if he's playing real well.  But that slots him in as an SF where he is less likely to shine, or Julius tries to play some C.  Simply ObiT likely has more value as a 30 min a night starter elsewhere ...

Siakim is an all-star level two-way talent.   Likely TOR says No.

Robt Williams got a pretty large contract.  4/$54M.  Starting around $12M I suppose.  He's been injury prone, and only showed flashes, while also being undisciplined at times.  On a 4 year deal, I would've been looking for a discount.  More like $36M.  If he puts his game together ...
Certainly has some impressive physical tools.

Contracts I wouldn't have given:
Jared  Allen    5/$100M
Terry Rozier   4/$97M max extension
Norm Powell  5/$90M
DeM DeRozan 3/$85M
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 21, 2021, 03:14:02 PM
It's cute how you are proud of the home-grown thing, Bank

But we both know further addition along the lines of Horford-Schroder-Richardson-Parker is what will get the job completed
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 21, 2021, 03:16:04 PM
Siakim is an all-star level two-way talent.   Likely TOR says No.


Right

You didnt say TO WHAT exactly but we agree - as I posted a ways back
Title: Masturbatory Malaise
Post by: chipstern on August 21, 2021, 03:16:42 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on August 21, 2021, 02:54:28 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on August 21, 2021, 02:43:24 PM
Having said that I could see packaging Smart and some other recent 1st rounders/ or picks if someone attractive comes available.


Well, no

Smart is your to keep now.

Jaylen in a deal for a stud could happen

More likely three lesser guys go for a vet with not much left on deal

Horford and Schroder were excellent adds.  I dont think 24-12 - somewhere near there early - is out of the question.

LMAO

kid after telling me all the deals that you negotiated for Smart, you now say its unlikely he could be traded?

Kid right now the Celts have a young teams with 8 1st round picks, including 2 recent all-stars and a 1st team defensive team player.

That's not a bad core to add 5 more young 1st rounders to.

Or as an option to have to consider packaging some combo for another all-star calibre player.

YMMV

Packaged for a stud?

Jaylen Brown IS A STUD.

As for all of the "purported" trades, Bank, I believe your characterization of masturbatory blogsters engaging in ClickBait Criminal Conspiracies is hardly worth contemplating. 

Some of it is pure phantasy, other scenarios are clearly leaked by agents and front offices. 

Or morons, such as braying jackass Stephen A's scenario where the Knicks trade, oh, RJ, Mitchell, Obi, Knox, the #19 and #21 picks in 2021, and both of our 2023 draft picks for Dame. 

Or on a more humble level, the Collin Sexton exchange some thought worthy of consideration, which is memory serves included #19, #21, Obi, Mitchell and Kevin.  And as I recall there were plenty of scribes lambasting Rose & Perry for not picking up a superstar such as Oladipo at the trading deadline.  DUH. 

Better still, Wiggins, Wiseman, Moody and Kuminga for Simmons. 

Celtics had multiple #1 picks from Ainge's salad days, before he lost his fucking mind.  Beginning with the historic Nyets Heist. 

I love Walker, his limitations notwithstanding.  He is a fierce competitor and top tier defender. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 21, 2021, 03:25:24 PM
I think Coach Udoka has it right -

Less HERO BALL from Brown and Tatum - more sharing - team play.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 21, 2021, 03:31:47 PM
I know Chip is bored.  I will humor him

Pretty sure the deal involved LOVE and PRINCE.  I dont recall a straight deal with just Sexton - but I will check


KNICKS GET
COLLIN SEXTON
KEVIN LOVE
TAUREAN PRINCE

CAVALIERS GET
RJ BARRETT
IMMANUEL QUICKLEY
OBI TOPPIN, KEVIN KNOX
2021 PICKS 19, 21, 32, AND 58
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 21, 2021, 03:38:34 PM
A web site's opinion, during Sexton talks:

Too many New York Knicks fans think they’re going to get a great deal for Collin Sexton, so they keep pitching bad trades that send just Obi Toppin over with a fictitious fourth-round pick from 1968 to entice the Cavs into giving up a good scorer. That’s the problem, they think Cleveland is just going to roll over and offer up their bellies like a dog. They’re not, at least, we hope to the basketball overlords that they’re not going to.

The Knicks don’t have one player on their own, or one high enough draft pick to warrant trading with the Cavs. They have very little in the way of high-value talent and next to no one who would or could be described as an “elite” player. Despite what Knicks fans want to believe, R.J. Barrett isn’t turning into Kevin Durant. Maybe Latrell Sprewell minus the violent outbursts but not Durant. Frankly, the Knicks don’t have one player nearly as good as Sexton, at least not named Julius Randle.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 21, 2021, 03:42:33 PM
Rationale for the deal, WITH Love and Prince included


Why this works for both teams
For the Knicks, this is a no-brainer. They’re losing out on a possible seven free agents this year. Granted not all of them are great players but bodies can be useful in a pinch. Frank Ntilikina won’t be retained and is an out-and-out bust for the Knicks. He and fellow guard Theo Pinson are eating up dollars which doesn’t make any sense. Yup, a pun.

Taj Gibson isn’t bad for a grinder but at 35, his best days are behind him. Reggie Bullock will likely be brought back but he may be asking for a big number and may not be worth it, while Nerlens Noel is a good defensive player in limited minutes; same with Alec Burks. The problem with the guys they’re losing isn’t that they don’t fit with the team’s scheme, save for Ntilikina and Pinson, because they do. No, the problem is they don’t provide much offensive output. That was what sank the Knicks. They averaged just 95 points in the playoffs, which is worst among all playoff teams.

The four players the Knicks are trading over averaged just 37 points per game. The Cavs are sending over three players who averaged 46.6 per game. Barrett wasn’t very good on defense, nor was Quickley.

They need help scoring the ball. Tauren Prince is as good as anyone the Knicks are losing in either free agency or the trade (sans Barrett), while Kevin Love (if healthy) would be able to rebound and shoot, even if in limited minutes, better than anyone else on their roster. The addition of Collin Sexton would also give them a dynamic scorer that they so desperately need.

For the Cavs, R.J. Barrett would be a nice building block but he’s not going to be an elite scorer. What he already is will more than likely be what he’ll be going forward. Which is fine. Then you add Immanuel Quickley is your sixth man off the bench, while if you can get anything from Obi Toppin, that’s a win. Kevin Knox coming over is a courtesy addition, to help Knicks fans think they actually got something for him.

The draft picks are imperative, mostly because the Cavs aren’t going to be getting much if anything that late in the draft unless you can package them for a team that needs role players. Even if not, you can use those four picks to add some bodies and allow yourself to move on from some bad acquisitions you already have on your roster.



- from the site that proposed it
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 21, 2021, 03:46:48 PM
I don’t think the website itself has that opinion. It’s probably just holding the opinion of some writer.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 21, 2021, 03:48:57 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 21, 2021, 03:13:40 PM
Again, the problem is that ObiT's upside on these Knix is as a 15 min a night backup PF.  No matter how good he does, how does he get beyond that?  How does he reach a high level limited like that?  Sure, maybe you find an extra 5-7 mins if he's playing real well.  But that slots him in as an SF where he is less likely to shine, or Julius tries to play some C.  Simply ObiT likely has more value as a 30 min a night starter elsewhere ...

Siakim is an all-star level two-way talent.   Likely TOR says No.

Robt Williams got a pretty large contract.  4/$54M.  Starting around $12M I suppose.  He's been injury prone, and only showed flashes, while also being undisciplined at times.  On a 4 year deal, I would've been looking for a discount.  More like $36M.  If he puts his game together ...
Certainly has some impressive physical tools.

Contracts I wouldn't have given:
Jared  Allen    5/$100M
Terry Rozier   4/$97M max extension
Norm Powell  5/$90M
DeM DeRozan 3/$85M

Says YOU. 

Knicks clearly have other ideas.  So does Obi.  He has barely scratched the surface of his potential.  For BoD to dismiss him as 15 minutes a night, is, well, THAT'S BOD.  I suspect Thibs begs to differ. 

Not to cast aspersions on your handicapping skills, nevertheless I have a distinct memory from the not so distant past of you mocking me for suggesting that James Harden was slotted to function as a PG for the Rockets. 

HEY, Haliburton was MY PICK at #8. 

Over and done with.  We picked OBI, likely under the impression that Julius was one more and done at the trading deadline. 

And we just scored Miles McBride at #36, to break in behind Derrick Rose and Kemba Walker over the next two years, so there is recompense and redemption after all.  Is Deuce another Tyrese?  Different folks, different strokes, but let's just say, Deuce has a world of talent and competitive fire and will not be tasked with being our savior. 

And we still have Obi AND Julius. 

Things change. 

Might this be a situation such as where we once had both Bill Cartwright AND Patrick Ewing? 

Could be. 

A nice problem to have, in any event. 

Again, your PRESUMPTION is that Obi is strictly a backup PF, and there are no other paths he and the Knicks might pursue, and that any other scenarios, such as a 5-4 with Julius, are doomed to fail, likewise his ability to guard 3's.  And you base these conclusions on his rookie year?  Perhaps you might want to extend Obi and the Knicks a second year to grow.  RJ Barrett certainly seemed rather limited based upon naught but the sampling of his rookie year. 

Yes, Siakam is a significant talent, but he is wildly overpaid.  And your bold projection of him as a SF would seem to be at odds with your notion that Obi is categorically unsuited to play at the 3-spot.  Let alone committing 33-35-37 million to him, as Toronto has.  Or as you prpoose WE MIGHT.  Which is simply hilarious given your predilection for critiquing each and every long term contract that comes down the pike...Hey, I WOULDN'T HAVE GIVEN Them THAT LONG TERM MONEY.  Uh huh.

I feel that Siakam surely deserves another season to prove that his injuries and post-Kawhi leadership meltdowns were not defining moments.  Much as Obi deserves a second season to mature under Thibs.  Or that Obi only playing 20 minutes a night in his second season would be an enduring mark of Cain upon him and the Knicks moving forward. PLEASE. 

Unlikely you and I are going to find common ground on this.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 21, 2021, 03:54:54 PM
Same guy hearing this rumor:



CAVALIERS GET
F GORDAN HAYWARD

HORNETS GET
F LARRY NANCE
G/F ISAAC OKORO
CEDI OSMAN
2022 SECOND ROUND PICK (VIA HOU)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 21, 2021, 03:58:22 PM
I guess I am the only one OK with Toppin being MOSTLY  a second unit player as long as we have Julius.

Whatever...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 21, 2021, 04:03:42 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 21, 2021, 03:13:40 PM
Again, the problem is that ObiT's upside on these Knix is as a 15 min a night backup PF.  No matter how good he does, how does he get beyond that?  How does he reach a high level limited like that?  Sure, maybe you find an extra 5-7 mins if he's playing real well.  But that slots him in as an SF where he is less likely to shine, or Julius tries to play some C.  Simply ObiT likely has more value as a 30 min a night starter elsewhere ...

We’ve got three seasons of Obi for Taj money, then we have to make a decision. At what we’re paying him, 15 -20 quality minutes a night is good value. Is it maximum value? There will be all sorts of opinions on that. It also gives him time to become effective on both ends at 2 or 3 positions by the time he’s getting ready to ask the team to quadruple or quintuple his salary, depending on the state of the market that far out. He has great teammates and coaches to work with. He just needs to get it done. Regularly outperforming Randle in a year or two within the minutes he gets is his key to internal promotion and speeding up the timeline to his payday and the team’s decisions about utilizing his value. It’s a tall order and a goal he may never achieve.

It you can find clips of him getting swatted and blowing layups in Vegas, you might have doubts about his immediate value as a first stringer and think he still may have some work to do, as good as he’s ready to be right now as a backup.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 21, 2021, 04:07:44 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on August 21, 2021, 03:58:22 PM
I guess I am the only one OK with Toppin being MOSTLY  a second unit player as long as we have Julius.

Whatever...

I would also add - as a statement and a question -

What we have done SINCE choosing Toppin over Haliburton should be OK with you masses of Ty fans - seeing as Miles may not be here - IQ may not be as well - had we passed on Obi for TH.

ISN'T IT?

True, no telling what we'd have done with the other picks but if you like Leon's body of work there really should be no more crying over who we selected at #8 in 2020.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on August 21, 2021, 04:08:53 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on August 21, 2021, 03:25:24 PM
I think Coach Udoka has it right -

Less HERO BALL from Brown and Tatum - more sharing - team play.

Celtics basketball, the best Celtic's basketball, as written by Red was, make the next pass.

The lack of ball movement the last 2-3 years, was largely a function of KI being hurt, Gordo, a decent facilitating wing being hurt, and Kemba playing on one-leg and then taking the next game off.

They've needed a full-time PG to keep the ball and offense flowing. It was not the Celtic basketball I've seen win championships.

I hope between Smart, Prichard and Schroder they have the answer. And having a decent passing big in AL will also help.

Chip-As for Kemba as a Knick, unless he's close to 100% he's going to be tough to watch. He could not jump, accelerate to the hoop or play D last year. He was far from the only problem in a shit-storm of a bad year, but he hurt the Celts last year.

As for Ainge, I thought he was a pretty good GM, but may have aged the past couple of years, and had enough of dealing with current day NBA players and needed to step away. It was a good TO.

With just some half-decent luck Ainge could have gone to a couple of finals in the past few years. IMO he did a pretty good blowing up and then rebuilding the team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 21, 2021, 04:10:49 PM
It you can find clips of him getting swatted and blowing layups in Vegas, you might have doubts about his immediate value as a first stringer and think he still may have some work to do, as good as he’s ready to be right now as a backup.


WORD!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 21, 2021, 04:15:54 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on August 21, 2021, 03:54:54 PM
Same guy hearing this rumor:



CAVALIERS GET
F GORDAN HAYWARD

HORNETS GET
F LARRY NANCE
G/F ISAAC OKORO
CEDI OSMAN
2022 SECOND ROUND PICK (VIA HOU)

The way to get value out of Gordon seems to be as a security blanket for emerging guards.

Cleveland could use that.
Title: Me Happy
Post by: chipstern on August 21, 2021, 04:54:43 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 21, 2021, 04:03:42 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 21, 2021, 03:13:40 PM
Again, the problem is that ObiT's upside on these Knix is as a 15 min a night backup PF.  No matter how good he does, how does he get beyond that?  How does he reach a high level limited like that?  Sure, maybe you find an extra 5-7 mins if he's playing real well.  But that slots him in as an SF where he is less likely to shine, or Julius tries to play some C.  Simply ObiT likely has more value as a 30 min a night starter elsewhere ...

We’ve got three seasons of Obi for Taj money, then we have to make a decision. At what we’re paying him, 15 -20 quality minutes a night is good value. Is it maximum value? There will be all sorts of opinions on that. It also gives him time to become effective on both ends at 2 or 3 positions by the time he’s getting ready to ask the team to quadruple or quintuple his salary, depending on the state of the market that far out. He has great teammates and coaches to work with. He just needs to get it done. Regularly outperforming Randle in a year or two within the minutes he gets is his key to internal promotion and speeding up the timeline to his payday and the team’s decisions about utilizing his value. It’s a tall order and a goal he may never achieve.

It you can find clips of him getting swatted and blowing layups in Vegas, you might have doubts about his immediate value as a first stringer and think he still may have some work to do, as good as he’s ready to be right now as a backup.

Perfection?  No.

A work in progress. 

But an incredible motor, big time hops, athleticism, a rapidly improving three, grace and acceleration and intensity in transition.  Many of the shots he got blocked or whiffed on in transition, he will convert with more reps and repeat opportunities. 

Like you say Facil, two more years at TAJ MONEY.  A nice problem to have before we HAVE TO make any conclusive decisions.  Meanwhile, having talent like THAT as a second teamer is a bad thing? 

How?  We are worried as to how he might develop better on another team?  That's rich. 

Also, two more years of going head to head with Taj AND Julius in practice.  Let alone with Nerlens and Mitchell.  Let alone with Burks and Fournier and Knox. 

These Knicks, ALL OF THESE KNICKS, are works in progress.  Individually and as sundry pairings and units. 

To wit, Rose & Perry & Thibs placed a premium and CONTINUITY, and on bringing back those vets who came through for us, such as Rose, Burks, Noel and Gibson, while adding Walker and Fournier.  Not sexy enough for some folks. 

We picked Obi over Haliburton?  We picked Knox over Porter?  Them's the breaks. 

Meanwhile, speaking only for myself, I have long wanted us to stop eating our young. 

We are stocking up on young talent, and committed to developing our puppies as well. 

Most projections have us penciling in RJ and Mitchell in our starting five, which includes a nicked up but potent vet in Kemba, and young vets, in their twenties and in their prime in Julius [26] and Evan [28]. 

Meanwhile...

Jokubaitis [20]
McBride [20]
RJ [21]
Grimes [21]
Knox [22]
Quickley [22]
J. Sims [22]
A. Simms [22]
Robinson [23]
Toppin [23]
MJ Walker [23]
Bacon [25]
Vildoza [26]
Randle [26]
Noel [27]
Fournier [28]
Burks [30]
K Walker [31]
Rose [32]
Gibson [35]

Robinson-Randle-Fournier-Barrett-Walker

Noel-Toppin-Burks-Quickley-Rose

Gibson, Knox, Grimes, Bacon, McBride

That's 12 players under 28.  Fournier at 28, Noel at 27, Randle at 26, Bacon at 25.   

That's seven roster players under 23. 

Irrespective of how many puppies see daylight under Thibs, that is a SERIOUS COMMITMENT TO YOUTH. 

And off of summer league, there is a CLEAR COMMITMENT to gearing up IQ and OB for serious rotation minutes. 

I am fine with how we are entering 2021-2022. 

We are building upon a winning culture.  We have terrific coaching and player development. 

Can we dramatically improve, to say, 50-32? 

Hey, the East Is A Beast. 

Can we beat out Atlanta again for the #4 spot? 

Got me.  They are a year older, a year more experienced, and if Trae doesn't get dinged, and Hunter can play, maybe, eeeeehhhhh, maybe they bottle lightning and get past the Bucks. 

Who knows. 

* What I do know is that WE HAVE A COMPETITIVE TEAM And A COMPETITIVE CULTURE. 

* What I do know is that we have seven roster players under 23. 

* We have potentially, two #1 picks in both 2022 and 2023. 

* A boatload of #2 picks.   

* Two seasons then a team option on Rose, Walker, Gibson, Burks and Noel, all on reasonable, flippable contracts, so cap flexibility or trade flex just down the road. 

* Julius locked up for four [player option year four], Fournier for three [team option year four].   

So God bless, but with all due respect. 

Fuck Siakam.

Fuck Dame.

Fuck Collin.

NoMoreShinyObjects or QUICK FIXES. 
Title: Question Mark
Post by: chipstern on August 21, 2021, 05:14:02 PM
Can we depend on our Mitchell Robinson/Nerlens Noel platoon going into 2021-2022? 

https://fb.watch/7x9q-uC7bM/ (https://fb.watch/7x9q-uC7bM/)

Worth remembering what Mitchell is capable of. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 21, 2021, 05:34:34 PM
54 wins is treading water in terms of win rate. We upped or talent, but they all see us coming this time around. Getting to 54 would still be an accomplishment.

I don’t think we’ll see any coaches fired coming off a loss to the Knicks this season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 21, 2021, 06:10:21 PM
We picked Obi over Haliburton?  We picked Knox over Porter?  Them's the breaks.


hahahaaaa

There are just no words for your putting those two decisions side by side
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 21, 2021, 06:14:08 PM
50-32

Love the enthusiasm, Chip

Just as likely we "regress" (at least wins-wise) to something like 44-38 - or even lower
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 22, 2021, 01:03:39 AM
Another good year to take the over on the Knicks record.
Title: #2
Post by: carlos123 on August 22, 2021, 03:54:33 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 22, 2021, 01:03:39 AM
Another good year to take the over on the Knicks record.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLXt1jtwWfHrhrP9KYmodu_5NkkWis2Ysix70JkJk5nvwF_rz08mA4zBLkTS-5ph5c96l4x4aSr8JCfHRiieOpFYIj5A_plge7tOsf2lrIYKlmTGQlK7PJ1QRDmet8BTUOVfLc3ZvZWxdHTjU8PBNC4_=w599-h460-no?authuser=0)

This is Fac protecting his #2 as a True Positive Pussy. I listed the Kamster as #2 by mistake the other day. He's actually #4

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLW4Rp2C41ZkcGd9_zBjNLdVjIYCwmxdd9NNH_U54UoB2mNpMzaApEHR0LifT3UfFHJGKYhuJXx00imC386tSwKB-cbhWpTLt5A1penGuVOvHjcTOFmYJmzl_VK0qjhqvoDwonItzfN43eJM2bd72Z9u=w259-h194-no?authuser=0)

TRIVIA QUESTION: Who is PP#3?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 23, 2021, 03:45:29 AM
Vegas has the Knicks pegged at 41.5 wins. You have to be a serious NN to take the under.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 23, 2021, 10:24:46 AM
Yeah.  I will likely put some real cash on that over.

But I wouldnt be at all surprised if at some point in the year it is in some doubt.  The league is just so balanced.  Any night could bring anything.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 23, 2021, 11:09:30 AM
https://dailyknicks.com/2021/08/22/ny-knicks-5-superstars-destined-to-join-ny/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 23, 2021, 03:33:07 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 23, 2021, 03:45:29 AM
Vegas has the Knicks pegged at 41.5 wins. You have to be a serious NN to take the under.

Progress. 

My call? 

48-34. 

East is TUFF. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 23, 2021, 04:10:46 PM
52-30.

So are we.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 23, 2021, 04:24:38 PM
Jason Kidd talking about KP and their relationship in a direct echo of David Fizdale.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 23, 2021, 05:17:07 PM
If we are starting the chart -

44 wins.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 23, 2021, 05:32:51 PM
Emmanuel - new home


https://zalgiris.lt/en/news/bc-zalgiris/96389/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on August 23, 2021, 07:44:58 PM
47.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 23, 2021, 09:20:47 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on August 23, 2021, 04:31:28 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 23, 2021, 03:33:07 PM
48-34. 

Quote from: facilitatorn on August 23, 2021, 04:10:46 PM
52-30.

42-40

Fac, even if you go above Chip, he's forever PP#1. You stuck with #2 😼

Cold eyed realism, Carlos. We good.
Title: Take Me To Your Leader
Post by: chipstern on August 23, 2021, 10:10:26 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 23, 2021, 04:10:46 PM
52-30.

So are we.

I'm with you. 

Being such an unapologetic PP, I felt it necessary to reign in my unbridled enthusiasm. 

Noel-Randle-Fournier-Barrett-Walker
Robinson-Toppin-Burks-Quickley-Rose

GENUINELY TEN DEEP

McBride, Grimes, Knox, Gibson, ________ [and 11-15 are not too shabby]

Fournier and Walker are significant additions. 

I do believe Thibs is going to make Mitchell earn the top spot. 

I do believe that our eight rotation players, a year older, a year wiser, a year of experience playing together, a year of experience executing Thibs' schemes. 

I do believer, howsoever creaky and subject to the rigors of combat and the passage of time our Ancient Mariners might be, we are going into 2021-2022 with Kemba Walker, Derrick Rose, Miles McBride and Immanuel Quickley, as opposed to Elfrid Payton, Frank Ntililkina, Dennis Smith and Immanuel Quickley. 

Not simply craftiness and leadership, but an offensive acumen, an ability to go north south AND FINISH, a toughness, that should be an extension of THIBS on the floor, our first genuine courtside coaches since Jason Kidd...capable of creating easier opportunities for everyone. 

41-41? 

44-38?

47-35?

48-34?

52-30? 

Teams are not coming onto our floor thinking about the ESPN highlight reel. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 24, 2021, 02:19:38 AM
Thibs made Mitch earn the top spot last season, which he did.

Rose can take the second unit and beat Walker running the first.

Rose can take the first unit and beat Walker running the second.

Rose should start. Just like Thibs starts Mitch over Noel when both are available, Thibs will start Rose over Walker.

Kemba needs to think Starks, Crawford, and JR for this stretch of his career as a template for his Knicks greatness.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on August 24, 2021, 08:41:21 AM
interesting upcoming season, no one will overlook the Knicks vs. a more potent Knicks offense & Thibs  doing his Svenjolly thing...

48

Kiid - don't you mean 45...I mean you always go with 45
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 24, 2021, 08:53:52 AM
I dont think you take a Walker and make him a second unit guy

He has come off the bench just TWICE since he was 21 years old (638 games)

What would Kemba make ($$) if he was on the open market (a free agent, had there been no buyout $$)?

RESPECT.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 24, 2021, 01:15:59 PM
If you want him available for most of the games played over the next two seasons, you play Kemba off the bench.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 24, 2021, 01:43:16 PM
Might simply be with Kemba's bad knee that it's best for him to start after he's warmed up.  His health is a real wildcard for NYK.  Rose and Quix and a rook can cover the minutes for games Kemba misses.  But you don't want to wear Rose down.

Quote from: facilitatorn on August 24, 2021, 01:15:59 PM
If you want him available for most of the games played over the next two seasons, you play Kemba off the bench.

Demonstrably untrue.  Didn't you watch last season?  Elf started at PG and played just under 24 mins a night.  And after Rose was acquired, especially Elf was down under 20 mpg in April, and around 16 mins in May as he slumped.  I agree it's unconventional, but we already saw a season of Thibs playing his starting PG half a game or less.

Will be interesting to see how our defense holds since we swapped O (Kemba & Fournier) for D (Elf & Bullocks).  Can Thibs/NYK maintain a Top 10 D?  Will the offense be more potent and less reliant on Randle (and on 1-on-1 play from Julius Rose, Burks, Quix).

Can someone collect Win Predictions and stash them in the NBA forum?
Too early for me to toss out a guess.  A lot of East teams have gotten better.  Knix should be able to claw their way above .500.
Title: Kemba
Post by: chipstern on August 24, 2021, 02:20:23 PM
Think your take on Kemba starting is correct, Diddly. 

As for the D for O trade off?  That remains to be seen.  Sometimes the best defense is a good offense.  Elfrid and Reggie were stalwart defenders, but how much did they make the cats guarding them work on the other end? 

Watching Elfrid in Knicks highlight reels from the beginning of the season, he was playing really well on both ends, approaching triple double country on many nights before the Rose Trade.  WAS FINISHING at the hoop.  Of course, other teams could cheat off of his jumper.  And while a streaky Reggie could be deadly off the catch and shoot, and had a really nice chemistry with Julius, defenses could cheat off of him as well. 

Kemba and Evan both demand more serious attention off of the dribble, and that has implications for Julius and RJ and how they can enhance their attack mode. 

A concern for me, vis a vis attack mode, are the diminishing number of FT attempts for both Walker and Fournier these past two seasons.  KW is a career 85% FT shooter, and EF around 80%.  Only a small sample for the Celtics, but Fournier was shooting around 46% from trey, but hardly getting to the line, a matter of usage.  And Walker who tallied like 420 and 450 FT attempts his final two season with the Hornets, saw his FT attempts plummet in Boston, a matter of usage and injuries.  A significant tell for the Knicks, because in 2020-2021 Kemba was an .899 FT shooter for the Celtics. 

Anyway, Thibs generally finds a way to get EVERYONE involved on defense.  And having a healthy, motivated  Mitchell and a one year older, one year wiser, 2 +1 year more prosperous Nerlens [$8,800,000 $9,240,000, $9,680,000...rather reasonable numbers, are they not?] and Papa Taj suggests that we have a physical/athletic presence round the rim to clean up some miscues. 

The challenge for 2021-2022 is to create more offensive diversity and efficiency, no? 
Title: Re: Knicks 21-22
Post by: Kam on August 24, 2021, 03:07:17 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on August 24, 2021, 02:14:14 PM
Quote from: chipstern PP#1 on August 23, 2021, 03:33:07 PM
48-34. 

Quote from: facilitatorn PP#2 on August 23, 2021, 04:10:46 PM
52-30.

Quote from: czarlos123 on August 23, 2021, 04:31:28 PM
42-40

Quote from: chamacocartero8 on August 23, 2021, 05:17:07 PM
44 wins.

Quote from: Yankguy1 on August 23, 2021, 07:44:58 PM
47.

Quote from: Jack Straw on August 24, 2021, 08:41:21 AM
48

Quote from: boZizzley on August 24, 2021, 01:43:16 PM
Can someone collect Win Predictions and stash them in the NBA forum?
Too early for me to toss out a guess.  A lot of East teams have gotten better.  Knix should be able to claw their way above .500.

BoZ proving that he's special, so he wants someone to collect Win Predictions, but he won't make one.

Also, waiting for the Kamster and my doggie (and Mr. Utley, lol).

46 wins.
Title: Les?
Post by: carlos123 on August 24, 2021, 03:25:29 PM
Les, my doggie, we need your number, woof! 🦮

Also, Bank, luee, elephant, josh...

Who else? Does chamaacocartero8 qualify for a Prediction, in addition to chamacocartero8?

How about Klint? He's been out for a loooong time.
Title: Damaged Goods
Post by: chipstern on August 24, 2021, 04:25:42 PM
Worth Remembering That There Is Gold in Them Thar Hills, Even When We Are Talking About Damaged Goods. 

Statistically, the numbers that the Larry Johnson of 1998-1999 posted, do not leap out at you, and his back was a wet mess, but he still played through pain to the tune of 30+Plus minutes a night, led us to the NBA Finals, and was an inspiration to our fans and his team mates. 

Yes, we lost 4-1, but from Game 3 on, we competed way over our heads, and in a conclusive game five, we clawed and scratched before falling to the better team, 78-77. 

We all know, Thibs and Rose and company all know, that Kemba Walker ain't the Kemba of his salad days, any more than Derrick Rose was when he re-arrived in New York. 

Re-purposed as a den mother to the second unit, Rose raised his game to heroic proportions, and played way over his head and beyond his endurance in the playoffs.  Even as a ghost of Xmas Passed, Rose was an extension of THIBS on the floor, and proved such superior skill set and leadership, that he led us to the fourth seed in the playoffs, and our first winning season since Jason Kidd led a geriatric squad to the playoffs under Coach Woodson.  Good enough to warrant a generous 2+1 [$13,445,120, $14,520,730, $15,596,339] and the opportunity to give us the most competitive PG platoon we've fielded since Charlie Ward & Chris Childs. 

Kemba Walker will NOT BE TASKED with being a savior.  No, seriously.  Walker and Rose WILL BE TASKED with providing a competitive veteran presence so as to allow our young vets and our protean puppies to raise their games and ascend to the next level.  The Next Level Of Winning. 

Kemba and Derrick are functioning coaches every bit as much as Johnnie Bryant and Kenny Payne.  We are looking to solidify and advance our culture, be it for the eventual arrival of the ONE TRUE SUPERSTAR [if I were to make a prediction out of the usual suspects, it would probably be ZION] or simply to ripen and solidify the low hanging fruit we currently have on board. 

Me?  I would have been inclined to make a run at Lonzo Ball. 

But the Knicks, and most likely Coach Thibs, were more comfortable with and inclined to bring on a veteran presence to go with Rose, and thus help nurture the likes of IQ and Deuce [and somewhere down the line, presumably, Jokubaitis]. 

Again, BUILDING A CULTURE, playing the right way, in this case, THIBS' way. 

A roll of the dice, but one I am comfortable with, as clearly, Thibs and Rose are. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 24, 2021, 05:02:47 PM
Rose is further along then Kemba to adjusting his game to a half-bounce effective style where he’s still relatively quick and strong and can take advantage. There may be something to the idea of getting the most out of Kemba once he’s warm that might be a key to shaping the lineup.

Interesting. Can’t wait to see how it unfolds.

I think we’ll be at least as happy with Fournier as the Bulls are with Lonzo. The Bulls could be better off than their roster indicates due to Carlyle’s knack for stitching reasonable defense out of rosters conspicuous for a lack of players with defensive reputations.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 24, 2021, 05:19:09 PM
We’ll see a lot of Dinwiddie in preseason if he’s really good to go. It’s a Washington home & away with Detroit & Indiana sprinkled in on our slate. Only the Washington away is a road game.
Title: A Nice Narrative
Post by: chipstern on August 24, 2021, 06:11:29 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 24, 2021, 05:02:47 PM
Rose is further along then Kemba to adjusting his game to a half-bounce effective style where he’s still relatively quick and strong and can take advantage. There may be something to the idea of getting the most out of Kemba once he’s warm that might be a key to shaping the lineup.

Interesting. Can’t wait to see how it unfolds.

I think we’ll be at least as happy with Fournier as the Bulls are with Lonzo. The Bulls could be better off than their roster indicates due to Carlyle’s knack for stitching reasonable defense out of rosters conspicuous for a lack of players with defensive reputations.

Facil, for ME, the point of all of this is THE PROCESS itself. 

THIBS restored dignity and laid the foundation for a competitive culture last season. 

ME?  I am not pining away for SUPERSTARS, and SHINY OBJECTS. 

There is something to be said for being THE LITTLE ENGINE THAT COULD. 

Kemba is FIERCELY PRIDEFUL, and a competitor, and grateful for a significant, spiritually resonant second act.  As is Derrick. 

Hopefully we can get everyone vaccinated and respectful of their fellow man and woman, and wearing masks as deemed necessary. 

As much MEANING as the Kemba/Derrick SECOND COMING has, it resonates more truly before 20,000 howling souls at the World's Most Famous Arena. 

We are NOT a championship team, but we are a COMPETITIVE TEAM, a WORK IN PROGRESS, with, praise be to Leon, a sentient corporate hierarchy that is mindful and patient and proactive, has a plan, and is STICKING TO IT. 

We may have less than a prayer if one is to believe the Vegas Bookies, but we have a fighting chance in every motherfucking game. 

Not much to ask for, but after twenty years of dumbass leaders and directionless sucking, it is something this Pussy can sign on to. 

Kemba & Derrick?

And DEUCE?


DAMN Nice Narrative. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 24, 2021, 06:40:06 PM
I can see Kemba getting a run, a breather and a run covering ten to twelve minutes of the first 18 minutes of each half, putting him on track to 20-24, with Rose & McBride splitting the remainder starting Rose heavy as McBride gets up to speed.

We’ve got a lot of guys worthy of solid run, and at least initially some won’t be getting it. However, NBA attrition is real, and just because we dodged most bullets last year doesn’t necessarily indicate that we will as well this year. Hopefully we can stay healthy and keep it competitive all season.

It will be interesting to see if Thibs plays deeper now the team is deeper.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 24, 2021, 07:42:51 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 24, 2021, 01:15:59 PM
If you want him available for most of the games played over the next two seasons, you play Kemba off the bench.

Who do you want finishing games?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 25, 2021, 01:26:11 AM
 https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/knicks-nerlens-noel-sues-former-agent-rich-paul-58m-lost-money/1nhmapkfnv3a01q4vjvn7x7oxv (https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/knicks-nerlens-noel-sues-former-agent-rich-paul-58m-lost-money/1nhmapkfnv3a01q4vjvn7x7oxv)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 25, 2021, 01:44:22 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on August 24, 2021, 07:42:51 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 24, 2021, 01:15:59 PM
If you want him available for most of the games played over the next two seasons, you play Kemba off the bench.

Who do you want finishing games?

For the first forty games, whoever has the hot hand so far that night, after that whoever has shown out as the dominant closer to that point because by then we should be locking in the rotation for the stretch run and the playoffs.
Title: What If?
Post by: chipstern on August 25, 2021, 02:35:20 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 25, 2021, 01:44:22 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on August 24, 2021, 07:42:51 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 24, 2021, 01:15:59 PM
If you want him available for most of the games played over the next two seasons, you play Kemba off the bench.

Who do you want finishing games?

For the first forty games, whoever has the hot hand so far that night, after that whoever has shown out as the dominant closer to that point because by then we should be locking in the rotation for the stretch run and the playoffs.

I have a strange feeling, that at certain junctures, we might see Kemba and Rose TOGETHER in the back court. 

Derrick's offensive style is such, he could be very interesting playing off the ball. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 25, 2021, 09:10:03 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 25, 2021, 01:44:22 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on August 24, 2021, 07:42:51 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 24, 2021, 01:15:59 PM
If you want him available for most of the games played over the next two seasons, you play Kemba off the bench.

Who do you want finishing games?

For the first forty games, whoever has the hot hand so far that night, after that whoever has shown out as the dominant closer to that point because by then we should be locking in the rotation for the stretch run and the playoffs.

I think it may be an issue.  May have to have them both out there (Walker, Rose)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 25, 2021, 09:20:35 AM
Quote from: Kam on August 25, 2021, 01:26:11 AM
https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/knicks-nerlens-noel-sues-former-agent-rich-paul-58m-lost-money/1nhmapkfnv3a01q4vjvn7x7oxv (https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/knicks-nerlens-noel-sues-former-agent-rich-paul-58m-lost-money/1nhmapkfnv3a01q4vjvn7x7oxv)

Player has the ultimate decision

That Noel turned down 4-70, a deal he KNEW about, is on the player, despite any agent advice that was given

After the fact, after the injury, the phone calls not returned, etc comes to negligence on Rich Paul's part - but not tot he tune of 58 mil.

I am sure some low $$ settlement will occur - where Rich Paul pays something to the Noel camp.  Happy for Nerlens that he finally did get his (albeit lower) bigger contract - at 30+ mil - and his family should now be set for the remainder of his life.
Title: Thoughts?
Post by: chipstern on August 25, 2021, 03:49:07 PM
https://www.instagram.com/p/CS_NirWvw10/?utm_source=ig_embed&ig_rid=f6319e10-c8ee-45f3-8238-6da950d9fdac (https://www.instagram.com/p/CS_NirWvw10/?utm_source=ig_embed&ig_rid=f6319e10-c8ee-45f3-8238-6da950d9fdac)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 25, 2021, 03:53:49 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 25, 2021, 02:35:20 AM

I have a strange feeling, that at certain junctures, we might see Kemba and Rose TOGETHER in the back court. 

Derrick's offensive style is such, he could be very interesting playing off the ball.

Quote from: kidcarter8 on August 25, 2021, 09:10:03 AM

I think it may be an issue.  May have to have them both out there (Walker, Rose)

Yall made me really think and envision how this might work. Two big, one wing, two guard lineups are one option. So are one big, two wing, two guard line ups.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 25, 2021, 03:55:52 PM
RJ, Evan, and Alec wings and Rose, Walker, Quickley, and McBride guards. I think Grimes can do both because of his mobility at his size. If we go 3 guard, Grimes makes sense as one of the three, with either a wing and a big or two bigs. In terms of being useful in these combinations, a swing skill for Obi is defending small forwards as well as power forwards. It would make both he and the Knicks more dangerously versatile.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 25, 2021, 04:39:50 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 25, 2021, 03:55:52 PM
RJ, Evan, and Alec wings and Rose, Walker, Quickley, and McBride guards. I think Grimes can do both because of his mobility at his size. If we go 3 guard, Grimes makes sense as one of the three, with either a wing and a big or two bigs. In terms of being useful in these combinations, a swing skill for Obi is defending small forwards as well as power forwards. It would make both he and the Knicks more dangerously versatile.

Dig that. 

And Kevin Knox, too. 

Be for-warned. 

As a PP in good standing, I am rooting hard for KK.  He is NOT French Frank.  He has a genuine skillset, and showed real improvement in his cameo minutes last season.  Seriously. 

But in a numbers game, he will be hard pressed to STEP UP in the que with Fournier, RJ, Burks and Obi ahead of him. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 25, 2021, 04:50:36 PM
Ron Baker has retired from playing basketball professionally at 28.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 25, 2021, 07:00:13 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 25, 2021, 04:50:36 PM
Ron Baker has retired from playing basketball professionally at 28.

Thought he was older. 

Good cat.  Middling hoopster. 

On the Stupidity Scale, the contract Steve Mills conferred on him is a head scratcher for the ages. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 25, 2021, 07:33:58 PM
Coach material, likely

When guys retire - when they can still play....

See Jared Dudley, who joins Kidd's Dallas staff.
Title: Rachel Nichols - out at ESPN
Post by: Kam on August 26, 2021, 12:58:19 PM
The Jump cancelled.   Rachel effectively let go.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/espn-maria-taylor-rachel-nichols (https://www.foxnews.com/media/espn-maria-taylor-rachel-nichols)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 26, 2021, 01:29:17 PM
She handled it beautifully

Got to create a whole show and spend five years hanging out with some of my favorite people ❤️ talking about one my favorite things 🏀 An eternal thank you to our amazing producers & crew - The Jump was never built to last forever but it sure was fun. 😎More to come
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on August 26, 2021, 06:10:09 PM
lmao


** cooked...despite "THE BOYCOTT" !!!

****meanwhile, the "OTHER ONE" has got the Olympics, the Super Bowl, the World Cup, the First Human Landing on Mars.....lol, lol, lol, lol, lol..
Title: Les?
Post by: carlos123 on August 26, 2021, 09:07:42 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on August 26, 2021, 06:10:09 PM
lmao


** cooked...despite "THE BOYCOTT" !!!

****meanwhile, the "OTHER ONE" has got the Olympics, the Super Bowl, the World Cup, the First Human Landing on Mars.....lol, lol, lol, lol, lol..

Les, how many wins the Kicks next season? Mostly everybody else has made a prediction. Well, except for BoZ who wants someone to keep tabs but decided to be more interesting and leave it for later.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: risingearly on August 27, 2021, 11:17:43 AM
45 wins
Title: Done Deal
Post by: chipstern on August 27, 2021, 01:52:15 PM
Bulls receive:

Derrick Jones Jr.
2022 first round pick from Portland, which is protected 1-14 through 2028, then a 2028 second-round pick.  2023 second round pick originally from Denver

Cavs receive:

Lauri Markkanen on a four-year, $67M contract

Blazers receive:

Larry Nance Jr. from Cleveland
Title: Re: Done Deal
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 27, 2021, 02:26:27 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 27, 2021, 01:52:15 PM
Bulls receive:

Derrick Jones Jr.
2022 first round pick from Portland, which is protected 1-14 through 2028, then a 2028 second-round pick.  2023 second round pick originally from Denver

Cavs receive:

Lauri Markkanen on a four-year, $67M contract

Blazers receive:

Larry Nance Jr. from Cleveland

Nice.
Title: Re: Done Deal
Post by: bodiddley on August 27, 2021, 02:33:27 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 27, 2021, 01:52:15 PM
Bulls receive:
Derrick Jones Jr.
2022 first round pick from Portland, which is protected 1-14 through 2028, then a 2028 second-round pick.  2023 second round pick originally from Denver

Cavs receive:
Lauri Markkanen on a four-year, $67M contract

Blazers receive:
Larry Nance Jr. from Cleveland

That's a sizeable contract for a rather inconsistent-so-far Markk.
I like his game.  Though he needs to toughen up a little.
In one way, CLE is a good place for Markk to get his game/confidence back, since they need to develop yute and he can get plenty of minutes.
Otoh Cavs already had issues on D.
Might mean that Markkanen disappears into well-paid Cavs obscurity for a few years.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 27, 2021, 02:41:35 PM
It is a lot to pay for Evan Mobleys backup

I like the deal better for the blazers because they need Nance or someone like him in their lineup
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 27, 2021, 04:04:57 PM
Markaanen the very DEFINITION of a stretch four

15 and 7 at ages 20-23

37 from deep
85 from line

TS% increased all 3 years  (.619 a year ago)

Respectable 15.6 PER should go up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 27, 2021, 04:31:17 PM
Jared Allen  $20M
Markkanen  $15M
Ricky Rubio $18M (expiring)
Love getting $31M this year ($29M next)

Pretty expensive bad team.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 27, 2021, 04:40:43 PM
Of course

This occurs when your younger stars arent highly paid - and gives a window for contention
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 27, 2021, 05:08:23 PM
Lottery contention
Title: The Tyranny Of Mask Mandates
Post by: chipstern on August 27, 2021, 05:54:03 PM
Gump Worsley Never Submitted

(https://images2.minutemediacdn.com/image/fetch/w_736,h_485,c_fill,g_auto,f_auto/https%3A%2F%2Fbluelinestation.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fgetty-images%2F2018%2F08%2F85393849-850x560.jpeg)

Like That Sheep Jacques Plante

(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b154/spyboy1/TSG%20Blog/PlanteRangers.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 27, 2021, 06:07:35 PM
Eric Musselman would turn the Cavs around, as would have Rick Carlisle.

Windler still underutilized
Title: Re: Les?
Post by: lesterluv on August 27, 2021, 07:16:19 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on August 26, 2021, 09:07:42 PM

Les, how many wins the Kicks next season? Mostly everybody else has made a prediction.

We get 82 games again right?
Played at like a 45/46 win pace last year.
Elf's gone, that's gotta be a +5 boost right there, so gimme 51!

**** surely a lowball, but trying to keep in mind that we did lose Reggie Bullock after the four-decade long search for a Reggie Bullock finally brought us Reggie Bullock and don't want to get tooooo crazy!
Title: RGB
Post by: chipstern on August 27, 2021, 09:24:10 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on August 27, 2021, 07:16:19 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on August 26, 2021, 09:07:42 PM

Les, how many wins the Kicks next season? Mostly everybody else has made a prediction.

We get 82 games again right?
Played at like a 45/46 win pace last year.
Elf's gone, that's gotta be a +5 boost right there, so gimme 51!

**** surely a lowball, but trying to keep in mind that we did lose Reggie Bullock after the four-decade long search for a Reggie Bullock finally brought us Reggie Bullock and don't want to get tooooo crazy!

Do not share your dismissive 'tude towards Reggie, but Fournier represents a big step up in terms of offensive firepower and options. 

Checked out his stats, and was 163-398 from trey, which is a .410%, which is impressive.  His two pointers were a more modest 85-163, for a .521%, which points to the majority of his output primarily being of a catch and shoot variety, which should serve him well in Dallas with LD. 

As a Knick, and while many people point to Julius' flailings in the playoffs, Reggie as an offensive option was extremely limited when the fruit was not falling.  His FT% for 2020-2021 was .909, which is impressive, but he only went to the line 55 times over 65 games in 1949 minutes, the most of his career. 

In 1259 minutes, Fournier converted 98-123, for a .788 FT%. 

He made 117-283 treys, converting at a .413% while putting up 258 two pointers and canning 130 for a .504%.

Which is why we signed Fournier and let Reggie walk. 

Evan will be 29 be October and gives us someone who create in the near field, off the dribble, and from trey.  Reggie turned 30 this past March and his catch and shoot skills should be fine in Dallas. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 27, 2021, 09:33:08 PM
Reggie was excellent because he doesnt need the ball

Evan wont get it as much as he maybe should, given his prowess - as 3 other guys that'll be on the floor with him at most times need their shots badly.  Walker/Rose, RJ, Julius

How's Fournier's floor game?  This will be asked every night before we decide if he helped the team.  Floor spacer?  Sure.  Ball mover?  We'll see.  Defender?  Same.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 27, 2021, 09:45:29 PM
RJ has to take up Reggies defensive load

I think he can do it and overall the move will help us
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 28, 2021, 04:04:30 AM
And, uh, who takes RJB's load?
Reg and RJ formed a strong defensive wing tandem, with Bullocks on ball and RJB flying around closing out.  You put RJB on the best wing offender and you're left with Fournier, an often unalert off-ball defender having to make reads and closeouts.  He'd likely be better than Burks who played that role on the 2nd unit and perpetually drifted too far off his man or was surprised by interior picks.  [most defensive breakdowns last year were either Randle or Burks].

Fournier is a decent on ball defender.  Mostly solid positioning and sufficient effort, mediocre lateral speed.  You task RJB with on ball defense and he might find himself often in foul trouble, as he's not a great on-ball defender yet; while I don't trust Fournier's focus or footspeed on closeouts or  help. 

I'd rather keep RJB in the role he excelled at, defensive perimeter help defense, making reads and closeouts utilizing his speed, hustle and vision.   Obviously both players will have to do some of each, but I'd play to their strengths.  So Fournier in Bullox's role on D with RJB reprising his switching, closeout, help role.  We'll see if Thibs agrees.

A starting lineup of Kemba - RJB & Fournier - Randle - Noel or Mitch puts a good deal of pressure on RJB and our C's to clean up messes.  A big part of last year's strong defense was the ability to keep teams to a low 3Pt % while guarding the rim.  Some of that seemed teams just missed open shots.  Can that 3Pt defense be replicated?

 Then the bench looks like an outscore'em unit, with Burks, Quix, Rose and Obit not much on D.  Actually Rose was fairly effective on D, slowly going over screens but staying in the play and forcing PG's to make decisions under pressure.  Credit for Thibs for having simple clear rules of engagement, so players know where to be and what to do. 

I'm interested in seeing how Fournier does on PnR's.  And we'll see if teams hunt out Kemba for switches, though for some reason that's a common playoff strategy, but teams don't hunt out the weakest or smallest defender much regular season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: hungrycharlie on August 28, 2021, 12:41:13 PM
49-33
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: josh on August 28, 2021, 01:21:21 PM
Sure. Knicks finish at 41 - 41. Tough field plus injury to important players.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Zupzup on August 28, 2021, 01:34:11 PM
50-32
I think MitchR is Knicks most important player. If he stays healthy and relatively consistent they continue to improve. If its Noel again, we regress. Here I'm being optimistic assuming he's in good shape.
Title: Wherefore Art Thou
Post by: chipstern on August 28, 2021, 02:32:55 PM
Klint

Mr. Utley

Pharoah

EMann

MisterEarl

CliiperJane

Miras

Nagel

Aintitashaman
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 28, 2021, 04:59:58 PM
Monster Mitch

Fingers crossed
Title: Mitchell
Post by: chipstern on August 28, 2021, 05:20:19 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 28, 2021, 04:59:58 PM
Monster Mitch

Fingers crossed

Got that right. 

Between Nerlens & Jericho, Thibs & Payne, he will not lack for competitive inspiration. 

And I suspect that Leon and Scott are going to extend him in the near future. 

Least ways we can look forward to camp without the endless drumbeat of moronic fantasy trades where we toss him in as a sweetener without a second thought.  Nor without defaming the karma that we netted him with the #36 pick [much as we nabbed McBride], a pick that Scott Perry obtained from OKC [via Chicago] after Phool Jackoff & Charlie Rosen had taken a big dump in the public pool of a trade market for Carmelo Anthony. 

Mitchell has come a long way, and he responded to an early snarky assessment by Thibs with a level of play and competitive focus that had TT eating out of his hand.   Clearly he has not kept walking boot from interfering with his conditioning, and has added some Randle-like muscle to his Scarecrow like frame. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 28, 2021, 06:00:45 PM
Quote from: Zupzup on August 28, 2021, 01:34:11 PM
50-32
I think MitchR is Knicks most important player. If he stays healthy and relatively consistent they continue to improve. If its Noel again, we regress. Here I'm being optimistic assuming he's in good shape.

Cover those bases...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 28, 2021, 06:02:14 PM
And I suspect that Leon and Scott are going to extend him in the near future.


They may have already - except there are demands
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 28, 2021, 06:13:55 PM
https://nypost.com/2021/08/23/knicks-open-to-mitchell-robinson-contract-extension-before-season/

NBA intelligentsia regard the four-year, $54 million contract extension the Celtics lavished last week on center Robert Williams as an outlier and not commensurate with market standards .....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: josh on August 29, 2021, 01:02:46 AM
I didn't even notice what had or had not already been taken when I put my number in!

Just luck.

And Mr. Utley isn't going by Mr. Utley at the moment. Hamilton Samuels was his moniker the last time I looked. His "real name," he claimed, when he shifted to it.
Title: Hamilton
Post by: carlos123 on August 29, 2021, 06:49:30 PM
Thanks josh, and do you think this Hamilton character will put a number in here?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 29, 2021, 06:52:41 PM
I doubt it

HS is good people though.  He would be a great addition here if he decided to come by.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 29, 2021, 08:43:35 PM
Kid likes anyone with major personality problems and a little dementia

That way he has a basis to commiserate
Title: Chamaco and Halmilton
Post by: carlos123 on August 29, 2021, 08:56:40 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 29, 2021, 08:43:35 PM
Kid likes anyone with major personality problems and a little dementia

That way he has a basis to commiserate

Well, since Mr. Utley, aka Hamilton Samuels, probably won't vote, should we allow chamaaco, aka kiid, vote and attribute that number to Mr. Utley?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on August 29, 2021, 09:22:27 PM
Knicks 42
Celtics 49
Title: No Celtics Ws here
Post by: carlos123 on August 29, 2021, 09:41:02 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on August 29, 2021, 09:22:27 PM
Knicks 42
Celtics 49

Sorry Bank, I only count Knicks wins. See next post.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on August 29, 2021, 09:46:21 PM
Carlos I gave you the bankshot pre-season 2 for 1 special.
Title: No dice
Post by: carlos123 on August 29, 2021, 09:49:50 PM
Quote from: Bank on August 29, 2021, 09:46:21 PM
Carlos I gave you the bankshot pre-season 2 for 1 special.

Thanks Bank, but no dice. You're incorporated with your Knicks prediction.

In return for the favor, I'll give you my Celts number: 41.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 29, 2021, 10:57:37 PM
CELTICS 40-1 to win it all, 20-1 to win East

Falling fast.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 29, 2021, 11:26:54 PM
We are going to be talking Celtics w Bank all season if prior years are any indication so its good to know where he stands going in

I peg Celtics at 44 at this point

Depth and forward depth especially strikes me as their weak point
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on August 29, 2021, 11:59:55 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on August 29, 2021, 10:57:37 PM
CELTICS 40-1 to win it all, 20-1 to win East

Falling fast.

Falling? When?

They've generally been grouped as the 4-5-6 seed in the East which seems fair.

Its hard to bet against the Nets/Durant but they seem combustible. I don't trust them.

I like the Heat as my value pick at 35 to 1, Celts at 40 isn't bad.

I suspect that the Celts will gel as a team as the season progresses and they learn to play under Coach U.

There is a shitload of young talent on that team, (as mentioned a couple of weeks ago they have 8 homegrown 1s) several of whom were developmentally sidetracked by covid, for the past 2 years.

And if luck reverts to the mean, this snakebit team, will be the luckiest team in the NBA for the next few years.

Its only fair. 

Get 'em while they're cheap.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 30, 2021, 12:29:24 AM
If it werent for Nate I would say Hawks are a better bet
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: josh on August 30, 2021, 11:57:40 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on August 29, 2021, 06:52:41 PM
I doubt it

HS is good people though.  He would be a great addition here if he decided to come by.

Based on his post to me in the Biden forum, I am not quite sure how you conclude that he's good people.

Opinionated, to be sure. Good?! Pretty questionable.
Title: Re: Chamaco and Halmilton
Post by: josh on August 30, 2021, 11:58:35 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on August 29, 2021, 08:56:40 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 29, 2021, 08:43:35 PM
Kid likes anyone with major personality problems and a little dementia

That way he has a basis to commiserate

Well, since Mr. Utley, aka Hamilton Samuels, probably won't vote, should we allow chamaaco, aka kiid, vote and attribute that number to Mr. Utley?

Taking votes or just seeking opinions, on whether to allow that?
Title: Re: Chamaco and Halmilton
Post by: carlos123 on August 30, 2021, 12:11:41 PM
Quote from: josh on August 30, 2021, 11:58:35 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on August 29, 2021, 08:56:40 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 29, 2021, 08:43:35 PM
Kid likes anyone with major personality problems and a little dementia

That way he has a basis to commiserate

Well, since Mr. Utley, aka Hamilton Samuels, probably won't vote, should we allow chamaaco, aka kiid, vote and attribute that number to Mr. Utley?

Taking votes or just seeking opinions, on whether to allow that?

I've been taking votes. So, seeking opinions on whether chamaaco, as a trumper little soldier, should be allowed more than 1 vote. He probably knows the recesses of Mr. Utley's crooked mind.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 30, 2021, 12:14:34 PM
Based on his post to me in the Biden forum, I am not quite sure how you conclude that he's good people.


I would say that a reasonable person could have a quite reasonable conversation with the guy.

You could be that guy as well - but so often choose acid tongue extremism or simple inability to see past your own views, as they are the one and only truth.
Title: Re: Chamaco and Halmilton
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 30, 2021, 12:15:31 PM
Quote from: josh on August 30, 2021, 11:58:35 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on August 29, 2021, 08:56:40 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 29, 2021, 08:43:35 PM
Kid likes anyone with major personality problems and a little dementia

That way he has a basis to commiserate

Well, since Mr. Utley, aka Hamilton Samuels, probably won't vote, should we allow chamaaco, aka kiid, vote and attribute that number to Mr. Utley?

Taking votes or just seeking opinions, on whether to allow that?

My cousin has the same number as me
Title: Re: Chamaco and Halmilton
Post by: carlos123 on August 30, 2021, 12:20:25 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on August 30, 2021, 12:15:31 PM
Quote from: josh on August 30, 2021, 11:58:35 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on August 29, 2021, 08:56:40 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 29, 2021, 08:43:35 PM
Kid likes anyone with major personality problems and a little dementia

That way he has a basis to commiserate

Well, since Mr. Utley, aka Hamilton Samuels, probably won't vote, should we allow chamaaco, aka kiid, vote and attribute that number to Mr. Utley?

Taking votes or just seeking opinions, on whether to allow that?

My cousin has the same number as me

You referring to chamaaco, aka kiid, or to Mr. Utley, aka Hamilton Samuels, or both?

And, since we're at it, how many cousins do you have?
Title: Re: Chamaco and Halmilton
Post by: josh on August 30, 2021, 01:08:25 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on August 30, 2021, 12:20:25 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on August 30, 2021, 12:15:31 PM
Quote from: josh on August 30, 2021, 11:58:35 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on August 29, 2021, 08:56:40 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 29, 2021, 08:43:35 PM
Kid likes anyone with major personality problems and a little dementia

That way he has a basis to commiserate

Well, since Mr. Utley, aka Hamilton Samuels, probably won't vote, should we allow chamaaco, aka kiid, vote and attribute that number to Mr. Utley?

Taking votes or just seeking opinions, on whether to allow that?

My cousin has the same number as me

You referring to chamaaco, aka kiid, or to Mr. Utley, aka Hamilton Samuels, or both?

And, since we're at it, how many cousins do you have?

He refers to the former.

And they are the same person, so his number of cousins is moot.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 30, 2021, 01:46:38 PM
Kid is his own cousin hence the famous Hapsburg chin temperament and reasoning
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 30, 2021, 01:51:07 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on August 29, 2021, 11:59:55 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on August 29, 2021, 10:57:37 PM
CELTICS 40-1 to win it all, 20-1 to win East

Falling fast.

Falling? When?

They've generally been grouped as the 4-5-6 seed in the East which seems fair.

Its hard to bet against the Nets/Durant but they seem combustible. I don't trust them.

I like the Heat as my value pick at 35 to 1, Celts at 40 isn't bad.

I suspect that the Celts will gel as a team as the season progresses and they learn to play under Coach U.

There is a shitload of young talent on that team, (as mentioned a couple of weeks ago they have 8 homegrown 1s) several of whom were developmentally sidetracked by covid, for the past 2 years.

And if luck reverts to the mean, this snakebit team, will be the luckiest team in the NBA for the next few years.

Its only fair. 

Get 'em while they're cheap.

Jabari Parker Grant Williams Langford and Neismith are the reserve corps of swings and wings

It is going to be a hell of a load on Jason and Jalen with that degree of fall off behind them
Title: Re: Chamaco and Halmilton
Post by: carlos123 on August 30, 2021, 02:03:09 PM
Quote from: josh on August 30, 2021, 01:08:25 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on August 30, 2021, 12:20:25 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on August 30, 2021, 12:15:31 PM
Quote from: josh on August 30, 2021, 11:58:35 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on August 29, 2021, 08:56:40 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 29, 2021, 08:43:35 PM
Kid likes anyone with major personality problems and a little dementia

That way he has a basis to commiserate

Well, since Mr. Utley, aka Hamilton Samuels, probably won't vote, should we allow chamaaco, aka kiid, vote and attribute that number to Mr. Utley?

Taking votes or just seeking opinions, on whether to allow that?

My cousin has the same number as me

You referring to chamaaco, aka kiid, or to Mr. Utley, aka Hamilton Samuels, or both?

And, since we're at it, how many cousins do you have?

He refers to the former.

And they are the same person, so his number of cousins is moot.

I know, josh, I know...

But I feel very sorry for chamacocartero. You see, he thinks I'm one of them Mexican rapists/murderers who've come here to take his rightful place in white society, so I'm trying to engage him in conversation. But he's afraid of me, so he doesn't respond. It must be terrible to live in fear of me.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 30, 2021, 02:47:35 PM
Tatum is playing the 4, I guess - and guarding 4s.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on August 30, 2021, 06:04:51 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 30, 2021, 01:51:07 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on August 29, 2021, 11:59:55 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on August 29, 2021, 10:57:37 PM
CELTICS 40-1 to win it all, 20-1 to win East

Falling fast.

Falling? When?

They've generally been grouped as the 4-5-6 seed in the East which seems fair.

Its hard to bet against the Nets/Durant but they seem combustible. I don't trust them.

I like the Heat as my value pick at 35 to 1, Celts at 40 isn't bad.

I suspect that the Celts will gel as a team as the season progresses and they learn to play under Coach U.

There is a shitload of young talent on that team, (as mentioned a couple of weeks ago they have 8 homegrown 1s) several of whom were developmentally sidetracked by covid, for the past 2 years.

And if luck reverts to the mean, this snakebit team, will be the luckiest team in the NBA for the next few years.

Its only fair. 

Get 'em while they're cheap.

Jabari Parker Grant Williams Langford and Neismith are the reserve corps of swings and wings

It is going to be a hell of a load on Jason and Jalen with that degree of fall off behind them

Horford, Smart and Schroder say hi.

Ironically fac, I think you overlooked them, and their potential contributions to the Js, who desperately needed a facilitator last year, and without reliving the gory details were reliant on a no-show vet in Teague and a rookie PG, Prichard, to pick up the slack left by kemba and covid DNPs.  Al is a good passing 4/5, and will spread the floor, and Schroder, will probably play with an edge and a desire to get paid in '22. Lastly, I see Al as mentoring TL, and if he can stay healthy, will be a force as an elite windmill rim protector. His skills and instincts are off the charts good.

IMO the East is going to be very competitive, but if the Celts develop as I imagine, they will be a tough out for any one in a 7-gamer.

More later,  but in general, this will be the first regular off-season for a lot of their young players and first regular training camp, to get incorporated into Coach U's and Brad's vision. And as a final aside, last year we saw a lot of the bubble teams struggle and fall short of expectations, and several teams were big surprises.

I think its a mistake to use last year as a measuring stick.

just my 2 scents
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 30, 2021, 06:59:09 PM
I will pick the OVER 46.5 for Boston.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 30, 2021, 10:44:19 PM
Banks

I was looking at Schroder Smart and Harford as rounding out your starting five

With Jalen and Jason it
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 30, 2021, 10:56:40 PM
Probably Richardson at opposite wing from J Brown

Celts will play 4 out one in

At first look, Schroder off the pine.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 30, 2021, 10:57:57 PM
Kid Corner, who had a 92 point game in a summer proAm game - wont get much run, likely to eventually go in a deal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 30, 2021, 11:25:07 PM
I forgot about Richardson

He helps probably off the pine
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 31, 2021, 09:13:54 AM
https://hardwoodhoudini.com/2021/08/11/boston-celtics-starting-lineups-schroder/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 31, 2021, 09:48:20 AM
Lakers fans all over Clips fans re:. Rondo
https://fadeawayworld.net/nba-media/lakers-fans-destroy-the-clippers-after-rajon-rondo-signing

Of course the first transaction of Rajon's career reads this way

Traded (as a draft pick) with Gary Payton and Rick Fox to BOSTON for Chucky Atkins Chris Mihm and Jumaine Jones.
Title: Off Season
Post by: chipstern on August 31, 2021, 01:41:37 PM
Obviously, Julius is putting in his work, and just as obviously, still stung by his playoffs letdown. 

Things I would like to see him address through reps, Reps and MORE REPS. 

* More work on his right hand, so defenses cannot collapse on his left [likewise RJ].

* Quicker more decisive decisions with the ball, where he is not so deliberate, banging, banging, banging the ball as he backs in his man; move that ball out of the block/paint to cutters and spot up threats, such as Kemba and Evan, confident they can convert an open shot or feed the ball quickly back into him in the paint [and be ready to roll down into the paint for a feed or an offensive rebound plus the AND + 1]

* Running more pick and rolls with RJ/Burks/Kevin and Mitchell/Nerlens. 

* As good as three point shooting is, use it as much as a threat as a reality, to open up closer shots in the midrange, or to set up cutters, like Rose and RJ. 

* STOP ARGUING WITH THE FUCKING REFS.  What's done is done.  KEEP YOUR HEAD IN THE GAME.  Let Thibs yell.  He has your back.  Don't take it out on the ref, take it out on the opposing PF. 
Title: Let The Stoopid Trade Proposals Begin
Post by: chipstern on August 31, 2021, 04:37:03 PM
Ben Simmons has made if official. 

He wants out of Philly. 

He will not be reporting to training camp. 

Are the Sixers required to pay him his 4 x $147,000,000 every two weeks if he does not show up? 

Sixers have been asking for a King's Ransom [Warriors, Wiseman, Wiggins, #7 & #14 draft picks], and it has not been forthcoming. 

In terms of a competitive Eastern Conference, while this may not put the kibosh on the Sixers, it certainly drops them out of the very top tier  [Milwaukee, Brooklyn, Miami] and into the 4-10 scrum. 

1 Philadelphia 76ers

2 Brooklyn Nets

3 Milwaukee Bucks

4 New York Knicks

5 Atlanta Hawks

6 Miami Heat

7 Boston Celtics

8 Washington Wizards

9 Indiana Pacers

10 Charlotte Hornets

11 Chicago Bulls

12 Toronto Raptors

13 Cleveland Cavaliers

14 Orlando Magic

15 Detroit Pistons


Which teams are moving up, and which teams are moving down, sports fans? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 31, 2021, 04:56:24 PM
No shortage of good Simmons deals to be made

I expect Sixers to get stronger
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 31, 2021, 05:06:22 PM
Just some material, which you may have already read:

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2021/08/27/afghanistan-refugees-fact-check-mh-orig.cnn/video/playlists/this-week-in-politics/

Of course I expect feedback along the lines of "I am not giving up Brogdon BY HIMSELF for Simmons"
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: josh on August 31, 2021, 11:57:21 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on August 31, 2021, 05:06:22 PM
Just some material, which you may have already read:

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2021/08/27/afghanistan-refugees-fact-check-mh-orig.cnn/video/playlists/this-week-in-politics/

Of course I expect feedback along the lines of "I am not giving up Brogdon BY HIMSELF for Simmons"

"I am not giving up Brogdon BY HIMSELF for Simmons!"
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 01, 2021, 09:39:27 AM
Cleveland to add TACKO FALL, likely on a 2-way deal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 01, 2021, 04:11:32 PM
BRAVO!!!


Unvaccinated players from several teams not allowed to play in home games

Shams Charania: Sources: Unvaccinated NBA players in markets with local requirements - such as NYC and SF - will not be able to enter home arenas.....
Title: Peek-A-Boo
Post by: chipstern on September 02, 2021, 04:24:51 PM
Adrian Wojnarowski: Free agent guard Dennis Smith Jr., has signed a deal to attend training camp with the Portland Trail Blazers, sources tell ESPN. Smith played 23 games between Detroit and New York last season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 03, 2021, 09:36:11 AM
And they passed on Mudiay

Their bad

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on September 03, 2021, 12:37:03 PM
lmao...you mean the MF'er who was lucky enough to grab a monthly check from Zalgiris Kaunas last week? lol, lol, lol, lol,
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 03, 2021, 02:50:54 PM
Shumpert set to join dancing with the stars
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 03, 2021, 02:53:44 PM
Celtics add Juancho Hernangomez for Chris Dunn Carson Edwards and a pick

This is a really good step to addressing their bench issues

I think this puts them back in the 3 to 6 seed conversation

It
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 03, 2021, 02:56:01 PM
And Brooklyn adds PAUL MILSAPP

Celts in top 6?

Probably. 

Could be closer to 3, as you say - if the they figure the rotation well with regards to the very inspired Schroder

Kid in the Corner survived the Grizz deal.  May hold onto the 3rd PG (5th guard) slot and maybe play 7-8 MPG
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 03, 2021, 06:53:43 PM
Nyets waive Alize Johnson

He would be a good candidate for the 20th camp invite

Could see him beating out Vildoza Knox and possibly Bacon for a situational roster spot
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: josh on September 04, 2021, 03:56:38 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 01, 2021, 09:39:27 AM
Cleveland to add TACKO FALL, likely on a 2-way deal.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/32123372/former-boston-celtics-center-tacko-fall-joins-cleveland-cavaliers-1-year-deal-agents-say
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 04, 2021, 09:36:34 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 03, 2021, 06:53:43 PM
Nyets waive Alize Johnson

He would be a good candidate for the 20th camp invite

Could see him beating out Vildoza Knox and possibly Bacon for a situational roster spot

A smallish PF at 6'7" who does not seem to have the upside of Knox. 

PS: Think the Nyets keep Okafor? 
Title: Nyets
Post by: carlos123 on September 04, 2021, 10:01:58 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 04, 2021, 09:36:34 PM
PS: Think the Nyets keep Okafor?

No, unless they want to have 300 centers.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 05, 2021, 02:56:02 PM
Unless you count Nick Claxon as a center they have Aldridge and the rookie Sharpe aside from Okafor

They dumped Jordan

I think they may keep Okafor to accentuate their defensive profile

Edit

I forgot about Militinov a euro seven footer

It may be a competitive camp
Title: Profile
Post by: chipstern on September 05, 2021, 06:02:18 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 05, 2021, 02:56:02 PM
Unless you count Nick Claxon as a center they have Aldridge and the rookie Sharpe aside from Okafor

They dumped Jordan

I think they may keep Okafor to accentuate their defensive profile

Edit

I forgot about Militinov a euro seven footer

It may be a competitive camp

Claxton was pretty damn impressive as a rookie.  Makes the loss of Allen less painful, if at all. 

Think Nyets go with Blacke Griffin as small ball center/PF.  Likewise Aldridge. 

After which Claxton and Okafor at the 5.  And the rook, though less pressure for him to produce immediately. 

Okafor's defense has always been suspect, and what made him such as well travelled fellow.  Of late, he got his conditioning more together.  Vulnerable on D, but he could always, ALWAYS score in the blocks. 

Nyets have great depth, but the consensus is that the one cat they lost to free agency that they cannot/have not replaced is Jeff Green.  Perhaps Blake Griffin in spots, as he has three point range, though that is not his primary thing. 
Title: A Possible French Frank Siting
Post by: chipstern on September 05, 2021, 06:03:50 PM
Former 8th pick and the New York Knicks guard Frank Ntilikina could be back playing in Europe. On Saturday, the head coach of Virtus Bologna, Sergio Scariolo, revealed that Nico Mannion will miss the beginning of the season and that the club is looking for a replacement. According to the Gazzetta dello Sport and La Repubblica, Ntilikina is one of the Virtus
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 06, 2021, 03:20:49 AM
Nyets are going to need KD to stay healthy and be their stopper

They have no one else capable of taking on the role
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 06, 2021, 03:10:21 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 06, 2021, 03:20:49 AM
Nyets are going to need KD to stay healthy and be their stopper

They have no one else capable of taking on the role

Neither Kyrie nor Harden? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 06, 2021, 04:16:31 PM
Stan Johnson to BULLS not Nets
Title: Omar
Post by: chipstern on September 06, 2021, 06:39:14 PM
Michael K. Williams has died.

I am crushed. 
Title: Re: Omar
Post by: bankshot1 on September 06, 2021, 08:50:17 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 06, 2021, 06:39:14 PM
Michael K. Williams has died.

I am crushed.

I came to The Wire late, and didn't know much about the show, but in a superb cast with so many memorable characters, he stood out. He owned Omar, the whistling gangster Robin Hood with heart and a code. He was mesmerizing.

Omar's coming.

Omar's gone.

RIP Michael
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on September 06, 2021, 10:18:37 PM
Randle looking really good.

https://empiresportsmedia.com/new-york-knicks/watch-knicks-julius-randle-has-most-impressive-weekend-of-workouts-ive-had-all-off-season/ (https://empiresportsmedia.com/new-york-knicks/watch-knicks-julius-randle-has-most-impressive-weekend-of-workouts-ive-had-all-off-season/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on September 06, 2021, 10:21:29 PM
Tough news about Williams.

An incredible artist, strong and memorable in every role.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 06, 2021, 10:48:06 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 06, 2021, 03:10:21 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 06, 2021, 03:20:49 AM
Nyets are going to need KD to stay healthy and be their stopper

They have no one else capable of taking on the role

Neither Kyrie nor Harden?

Both are guys to have big nights against though they each might individually outscore you

Alize to Chicago on a two year deal
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 07, 2021, 09:47:36 AM
Tacko Fall: Words cannot express how much I have enjoyed playing in Boston these last 2 years, it was both a blessing and an honor I will forever be grateful for

he played ONE HUNDRED SIXTY NINE minutes

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 07, 2021, 10:00:59 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 06, 2021, 10:48:06 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 06, 2021, 03:10:21 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 06, 2021, 03:20:49 AM
Nyets are going to need KD to stay healthy and be their stopper

They have no one else capable of taking on the role

Neither Kyrie nor Harden?

Both are guys to have big nights against though they each might individually outscore you

Alize to Chicago on a two year deal

Matt Thomas to Bulls as well

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 07, 2021, 01:13:11 PM
Hard to see StanJohn getting minutes with DeRozan, ZLavine, Caruso ahead of him.
Plus Derrick Jones Jr and Alize.  Seems like injury insurance.
StanJohn a terrific defender and dynamite on the break.  Needs to develop a shot.
I'd put him out there some with Zo Ball.  Lockdown D and go for transition hoops.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 07, 2021, 05:02:51 PM
Well...

ten rotation slots....

Training camp decides
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 07, 2021, 06:47:58 PM
It is the two Johnsons and Troy Brown in competition to play behind Williams and DeRozan

There are minutes available for at least two of the three
Title: Passing Through
Post by: chipstern on September 08, 2021, 02:18:34 PM
We are all just passing through...

(https://mk0astronomynow9oh6g.kinstacdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Moon_transits_Earth_5Jul2016_800x600-326x245.jpg)

Be KIND on your way out the portal.
Title: Perspective
Post by: chipstern on September 08, 2021, 02:29:50 PM
Ben Simmons?

A confounding player to this observer.  Still, some perspective, as to the things he does well...

New York's own DICK MCGUIRE, master point guard. 

He posted a lifetime FG% of .389

His FT% clocked in at .644

Led us to two NBA Finals, where our championship aspirations were derailed by George Mikan's Lakers. 

McGuire's #15 hangs in the rafters at MSG. 

Dick is in the Hall Of Fame. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 08, 2021, 03:22:30 PM
One rumor:
Simmons to CLE for Sexton + Markk + Osman

Gives PHI a PG and two shooters.
Scoring, but not much in the way of defensive help.

CLE would have a core of Garland - Okoro - Simmons - Mobley - Jar Allen
Would really need wing scoring.  But some strong defenders.
Would certainly be good for Dotson and Love -- giving them ops to offend.
Can't be done until Oct 27.


PHI:
Garland/Maxey - Danny Green/Seth Curry - Osman/Thybull - Tobias /Markk - Embiid/Drummond
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 08, 2021, 03:49:15 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 08, 2021, 03:22:30 PM
One rumor:
Simmons to CLE for Sexton + Markk + Osman

Gives PHI a PG and two shooters.
Scoring, but not much in the way of defensive help.

CLE would have a core of Garland - Okoro - Simmons - Mobley - Jar Allen
Would really need wing scoring.  But some strong defenders.
Would certainly be good for Dotson and Love -- giving them ops to offend.
Can't be done until Oct 27.


PHI:
Garland/Maxey - Danny Green/Seth Curry - Osman/Thybull - Tobias /Markk - Embiid/Drummond

I take it you mean Sexton. 

I have not seen this speculation. 

Would be a pretty good haul for Philly. 

At the risk of inserting an element of reality, not a strong suit of internet bloggers and their phantasmagorical conceits. 

Markk cannot be traded until mid-December. 

Philly cannot realistically afford to keep an unhappy, unwilling, non-participating Simmons six weeks deep into the new season. 

What I read is that the Timberwolves are interested in pulling something off. 

Only thing that works, short of a third team being involved, is D'Angelo Russell plus a shitload of draft picks.  Their big ass contracts are within 15% of each other. 

Does Philly accept that? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 08, 2021, 05:10:35 PM
https://sports.yahoo.com/nba-trade-rumors-cavs-want-214954206.html
That reporter quotes Marc Stein as the source behind this particular rumor.

I keep seeing that Markk and others who were traded recently can be packaged in another trade starting Oct 27.  That's what this article states.  Why it's earlier than the previous Dec date, I don't know.  But this is about the 3rd time separate time I've seen Oct. 27 listed as the re-trade date.

And yes, I meant Sexton on Philly, not Garland.
Simmons reportedly has a good relationship with Garland and they share an agency (Klutch Sports).

It makes sense for CLE if they aren't willing to pay Sexton.  Pay Simmons instead.
They'd still need to get some wing players and build up a team over the next year or two, but Simmons is young and Love's contract doesn't last forever.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 08, 2021, 05:58:34 PM
Wolves want to keep their big three and add Simmons.

So Beasley, McDaniels plus plus plus
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 08, 2021, 06:02:16 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 08, 2021, 05:10:35 PM
https://sports.yahoo.com/nba-trade-rumors-cavs-want-214954206.html
That reporter quotes Marc Stein as the source behind this particular rumor.

I keep seeing that Markk and others who were traded recently can be packaged in another trade starting Oct 27.  That's what this article states.  Why it's earlier than the previous Dec date, I don't know.  But this is about the 3rd time separate time I've seen Oct. 27 listed as the re-trade date.

And yes, I meant Sexton on Philly, not Garland.
Simmons reportedly has a good relationship with Garland and they share an agency (Klutch Sports).

It makes sense for CLE if they aren't willing to pay Sexton.  Pay Simmons instead.
They'd still need to get some wing players and build up a team over the next year or two, but Simmons is young and Love's contract doesn't last forever.

When I entered the transaction Iin the REAL GM Trade Checker it was rejected, and December 15 was listed.

Perhaps the sign and trade aspect of Mark coming to the Cavs  is the difference. 

I don't think Cavs give up that package.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 08, 2021, 06:04:01 PM
Simmons gets half his salary out front in the beginning of October

Philly is fucked.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 08, 2021, 06:51:42 PM
Every east team is fu**ed

Nets far and away the runaway winner
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on September 08, 2021, 11:09:16 PM
lol...not so fast.

Nets can surely be extraordinary.
And could equally be a season-long fiasco.

Body on all three superstars could certainly fail. Kyrie averages about 50 games a year, for starters.
Head on two of three superstars could certainly fail. Harden, after all, is perhaps the greatest proven choke-job artist in NBA history. And Kyrie is Kyrie.

Don't be awarding any East titles yet. Hardly automatic.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 09, 2021, 07:18:46 AM
Quote from: chipstern on September 08, 2021, 06:02:16 PM
When I entered the transaction in the REAL GM Trade Checker it was rejected, and December 15 was listed.

Perhaps the sign and trade aspect of Mark coming to the Cavs is the difference. 

NBA rules are complicated.
Was Markkanen a Free Agent?  As far as I can tell FA signees cannot be re-traded until Dec 15 or 3 months after the original signing, whichever is later (so usually the Dec 15 date for off-season signings).  3 months for any FA signed after Sept 15 period.

Otherwise, players can be re-traded as part of a package deal 60 days after the initial signing.  Which is I believe where Oct 27 comes into play for Markk.

Obviously, Oct 27 is workable for PHI, while Dec 15 is a headache.  Though Harden farted around in HOU for a couple months.

Simmons to CLE for Sexton + Markk + Osman

Quote
I don't think Cavs give up that package.

I think CLE would give up Sexton & Markk for Simmons.  Osman a useful player but his salary would be needed for ballast, unless a 3rd team was added into the mix.
I'd kind of hate to give up both Markk and Osman, but do you not add a star such as Simmons simply because of Osman?
Maybe include Os and PHI could toss in perhaps Korkmaz or Niang.
Or a 3rd team could be engaged to make the money work.

I think the key issue is whether PHI wants Sextant and is willing to pay him a bundle real soon.  It's not is Sexton sexy enough, but can he get you to a title.

If PHI gets desperate enough and/or doesn't want Sexton, CLE can counter with Garland and Love, which was purportedly an opening offer.  I haven't really liked Garland or Sexton, but also barely saw them play last year.  And the few times I did, seemed one of them was always out.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 09, 2021, 09:02:17 AM
 Markaanen was a sign and trade.  So no, not a free agent signing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 09, 2021, 11:22:07 AM
Hmmmm....

More point guard depth for Cavaliers

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/32174437/cleveland-cavaliers-sign-euro-vet-kevin-pangos-2-year-35-million-deal
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 09, 2021, 07:01:05 PM
Okafor released from Brooklyn. Too slow I guess.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 09, 2021, 07:12:25 PM
As far as I understand, a recently traded player can be re-traded in a package deal after 60 days.  With no time restriction on a 1-for-1 straight up deal.  A FA signee can't be traded til Dec 15 (or 3 months from the initial signing, if signed after Sept 15).

I also didn't realize that a sign-and-trade had to be for 3 years or longer with the first year fully guaranteed.

In any case, there are going to be plenty of upcoming Simmons trade rumors.
And likely a trade. 

Searching for the CLE trade article, I spotted a vague GS rumor (Wiggins and picks), an even vaguer BOS rumor, and a call for DEN to build a package around Porter Jr and picks.  Minn has been reported interested, but still rather unclear what they would offer. Seems like it would have to be Tangelo Russell +.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 09, 2021, 07:50:15 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 09, 2021, 07:01:05 PM
Okafor released from Brooklyn. Too slow I guess.

He was trade residue, wasnt he?  To get the tax down?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 09, 2021, 07:54:26 PM
Searching for the CLE trade article, I spotted a vague GS rumor (Wiggins and picks), an even vaguer BOS rumor, and a call for DEN to build a package around Porter Jr and picks.  Minn has been reported interested, but still rather unclear what they would offer. Seems like it would have to be Tangelo Russell +.


I responded to this already

It would have to be McDaniels, Beasley plus other enticement.

Two pretty good talents.

Shame Minny didnt have a pick from this last draft to toss in

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 09, 2021, 07:57:34 PM
Beasley makes 14.4
McDaniels on rookie deal, at 2.1

Both would be three year guys if Philly wanted.

Toss in Layman or Naz Reid, I guess.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 09, 2021, 08:00:03 PM
Layman about 14-5-2-1-1 over career per 36 minutes.

46/31/72
Title: Okafor
Post by: carlos123 on September 09, 2021, 08:53:19 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 09, 2021, 07:01:05 PM
Okafor released from Brooklyn. Too slow I guess.

That's what I said when he was traded to the Nyets.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 10, 2021, 01:01:02 AM
Who blinks first Morey or Klutch?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 10, 2021, 01:36:27 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on September 09, 2021, 07:57:34 PM
Beasley makes 14.4
McDaniels on rookie deal, at 2.1
Both would be three year guys if Philly wanted.
Toss in Layman or Naz Reid, I guess.

The headline player in a Simmons trade would be Malik Beasley?
Yikes.  You kidding me?!?
I missed his half-season breakout performance last year.
But that was without Tangelo (and Edwards) with someone needing to score.

That sounds awful for PHI.  Beasley and some flotsam for a 25 year old all-star?  Knix could offer up a better deal ...
I'd think any credible Minn offer would begin with Tangelo plus minor additions such as McDaniels. If PHI had interest in Tangelo running their show.  Malik's gun-and-drug incident/conviction doesn't help either.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 10, 2021, 02:02:31 AM
I think Morey is as well loved among GMs as Klutch is among agencies

Teams are only looking to let him off the hook on terms that leave them palpably improved. A team might get desperate at some point but that will only be a real motivator after the start of the regular season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 10, 2021, 08:10:06 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 10, 2021, 01:36:27 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on September 09, 2021, 07:57:34 PM
Beasley makes 14.4
McDaniels on rookie deal, at 2.1
Both would be three year guys if Philly wanted.
Toss in Layman or Naz Reid, I guess.

The headline player in a Simmons trade would be Malik Beasley?
Yikes.  You kidding me?!?
I missed his half-season breakout performance last year.
But that was without Tangelo (and Edwards) with someone needing to score.

That sounds awful for PHI.  Beasley and some flotsam for a 25 year old all-star?  Knix could offer up a better deal ...
I'd think any credible Minn offer would begin with Tangelo plus minor additions such as McDaniels. If PHI had interest in Tangelo running their show.  Malik's gun-and-drug incident/conviction doesn't help either.

Malik

Yes

And a premium pick or 2

I didn't give you a percentage chance of it getting done.  Just telling you they aren't dealing Russell.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 10, 2021, 10:46:07 AM
https://www.theplayerstribune.com/posts/joakim-noah-nba-basketball-knuckleheads-podcast

Joakim Noah all-time FIVE

Shaq
Dirk
MJ
Kobe

and.................

"White Chocolate"


Beautiful.
Title: Wolves
Post by: chipstern on September 10, 2021, 02:05:34 PM
Don't see anything going down. 

Other than D'Angelo, no assets to speak of.  Beasley and McDaniel.  Now THAT'S HILLARIOUS.  Too bad the Knicks traded Dennis and dropped Frank.  We could entertain just as bad an offer. 

And how many of their own #1 picks are they prepared to sunder? 

PS: As I might have already indicated in a previous post, apparently, according to Ben's contract, the Sixers are obliged to pony up 1/2 of his total salary on October 1. 

PPS: The Kings could offer Buddy Hield and either Marvin Bagley or Harrison Barnes and their 2022 #1 pick. 

PPPS: Reports that Morey is trying to cop Fox and Haliburton + other assets are hilarious. 

PPPPS: The Sixers are fucked. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 10, 2021, 02:23:29 PM
I think something is pretty close on the Simmons front

The Sixers released a statement that they are urging Simmons to get on the same page with the team and prepare to play the season

It looks like a play to strengthen the draft capital returning to Philly in a deal.
Title: Morey Eel
Post by: chipstern on September 10, 2021, 03:25:22 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 10, 2021, 02:23:29 PM
I think something is pretty close on the Simmons front

The Sixers released a statement that they are urging Simmons to get on the same page with the team and prepare to play the season

It looks like a play to strengthen the draft capital returning to Philly in a deal.

I do believe that Morey seriously overplayed his hand. 

I am not sure if he actually asked the Warriors for both Wiggins AND Wiseman, as well as their #7 AND #14 picks.  But seriously, if that proposal was making the rounds of NBA general managers, then one could imagine them smiling, exhaling and biding their time. 

A third and possibly fourth team would need to be involved to provide draft assets. 

We are talking about this because training camps are still two weeks and change away [Tuesday, September 28]. 

Meanwhile TRADER FACIL, this just in from the Phantasy Desk. 

Adrian Wojnarowski: The Lakers have agreed to trade Marc Gasol, a 2024 second-round pick and cash to the Grizzlies for the draft rights to Wang Zhelin, sources tell ESPN. Deal saves Lakers $10M. Gasol and Grizzlies will work together on waiver and release to allow him to remain in Spain w/ family.
Title: Grimes Time
Post by: chipstern on September 10, 2021, 03:35:26 PM
https://empiresportsmedia.com/new-york-knicks/knicks-how-quentin-grimes-became-a-quintessential-thibs-guy/ (https://empiresportsmedia.com/new-york-knicks/knicks-how-quentin-grimes-became-a-quintessential-thibs-guy/)

This is a wonderful piece on the evolution of #25 pick Quentin Grimes, on his skill set and his character, and how his college coach, a close friend of Knicks GM Scott Perry, who also had Thibs' ear, evolved his game during two years at Houston, after a rocky start at Kansas. 

Working on his D and his rebounding, and learning how to impact the game with more than shooting. 

I was particularly moved by the Twitter Video of Quentin with his family, his black father and white mother, and his whole extended mixed race family, and how Quentin broke down and cried  when he was selected, and that the Knicks clearly made their draft moves from 19 and 21 to 25 with their eyes on a player our team clearly regarded as a THIBS GUY. 

I know that some Knicks fans on social media have been second guessing our pick, because the Nets appear to have also struck gold with Cameron Thomas, who has a lights out shooting explosion in Summer League. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 10, 2021, 05:11:00 PM
Lakers should use that open spot for Frank

Im pretty hyped about all our stateside rookies though Sims still needs serious polishing.

Morey definitely overplayed his hand though Doc and Embid did not help matters

They should have hyped him in a cloud of rosy smoke if they wanted him gone
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on September 10, 2021, 05:31:02 PM
Damn hard to fake a rosy smoke cloud around a mf'er who doesn't take a single 4th quarter shot in four straight playoff games as his team gets eliminated....and then you add in the lowest FT% in NBA Postseason history, lol.

"Great Job Ben! You're the Best!"

No way to cover up that stink.

Maybe we just need to recalibrate and think of him as some kinda Dennis Rodman v2 w/more assists and fewer rebounds.

Course nobody would pay DRv2 40 million a year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 10, 2021, 06:22:09 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 10, 2021, 05:11:00 PM
Lakers should use that open spot for Frank

Im pretty hyped about all our stateside rookies though Sims still needs serious polishing.

Morey definitely overplayed his hand though Doc and Embid did not help matters

They should have hyped him in a cloud of rosy smoke if they wanted him gone

Instead the Sixers took a variation on the tried and true Phil Jackson approach, in which one whispers the player to death, allowing his trade value to plummet accordingly. 

Not that Simmons, with his his pussy attitude, was not complicit in cementing his rep as a great talent who is not prepared to take responsibility for his shortcomings and do the work required to ascend from good to great, and from great to....someone who is willing to make the sacrifices necessary to carry a team on his back, like Giannis or Butler or Paul. 
Title: Genteel Ben
Post by: chipstern on September 10, 2021, 06:33:51 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on September 10, 2021, 05:31:02 PM
Damn hard to fake a rosy smoke cloud around a mf'er who doesn't take a single 4th quarter shot in four straight playoff games as his team gets eliminated....and then you add in the lowest FT% in NBA Postseason history, lol.

"Great Job Ben! You're the Best!"

No way to cover up that stink.

Maybe we just need to recalibrate and think of him as some kinda Dennis Rodman v2 w/more assists and fewer rebounds.

Course nobody would pay DRv2 40 million a year.

Actually, Rodman? 

No. 

The person he most clearly resembles in terms of physical stature and athleticism is GIANNIS. 

The 26 year old Giannis is 6'11" and 242 pounds.  He is alternatingly seen as a PF, a SF and a shooting guard.   Jason Kidd was trying to help him evolve into a point guard.  He is good for 28-11-6 a night, every night, and has gotten better in every aspect of his game.  And while his 3-pt shooting and FT shooting are palpable weaknesses, he is not afraid of the moment, and was a FT making machine in the clinching Game 6.

The 25 year old Ben is 6'11" and 240 pounds.  He is alternatingly seen as a PG, and in some scenarios, as a 3&D SF.  His defense and ability to penetrate and dish off of the dribble are exemplary, but he was clearly afraid of the moment in the playoffs, by his aversion to take shots, let alone make repeated drives and thus trips to the FT line, which he is capable of attaining on every possession.  He has seemingly not dedicated himself to improving his game nor stepping up as a leader to the degree that Giannis has. 
Title: DD
Post by: chipstern on September 10, 2021, 06:46:49 PM
Kelsey Russo: The #Cavs are waiving guard Damyean Dotson, sources tell @TheAthletic.

I liked Dotson as a Knick, and he had a really nice 2018-2019 season over 27 minutes a game.  He defended, played hard, and was given to a sudden rain of treys at any given moment. 

His three point shooting plummeted last season for the Cavs, going 46-159 [or .289%]. 

Guess he and Alonzo Trier never recovered from the absence of David Fizdale.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on September 10, 2021, 07:47:34 PM
In no way did I mean to imply that Mr. Simmons possessed one iota of Mr. Rodman's style of play or toughness. The similarity, a game with out FGA!

That said, I don't think there's a chance in hell Morey trades Ben for any package revolving around a Malik Beasley or that ilk, lol, no way, never happen. H'ed rather sit his ass, fine him and wait. Won't really affect the team. I don't think any of the other 76ers give a F'. Certainly not Embid. While he'll never get a crazy package, he can wait until somebody else becomes disgruntled, Harden-style. Maybe it's Lillard. Who knows. There's four years on that contract. No hurry. Trade value can't get lower.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 11, 2021, 02:17:42 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on September 10, 2021, 07:47:34 PM
In no way did I mean to imply that Mr. Simmons possessed one iota of Mr. Rodman's style of play or toughness. The similarity, a game with out FGA!

That said, I don't think there's a chance in hell Morey trades Ben for any package revolving around a Malik Beasley or that ilk, lol, no way, never happen. H'ed rather sit his ass, fine him and wait. Won't really affect the team. I don't think any of the other 76ers give a F'. Certainly not Embid. While he'll never get a crazy package, he can wait until somebody else becomes disgruntled, Harden-style. Maybe it's Lillard. Who knows. There's four years on that contract. No hurry. Trade value can't get lower.

As per usual, one toke over the line. 

Simmons is a significant talent, and my disdain for him as a spoiled little boy, does not change that. 

Rodman did ONE thing well, supremely well, insanely well. 

He was a REBOUNDING BEAST on a Bulls team where he didn't have any offensive role to play, save to clear the boards and get MJ, Pippen and the designated three point shooters additional opportunities to score.  Otherwise?  He defended well. 

Simmons defends at an ELITE level, and is a terror in transition as a facilitator and finisher. 

We [ME] mock him for not honoring his full potential as Giannis has, though possessing similar size and athleticism. 

Giannis had players and coaches who pushed him, and set the bar higher.  Giannis responded by setting the bar for himself higher still. 

Rodman was self-motivated, but there was this MJ fellow with his terrible swift sword of instant karma should his attentions wander.  And a coach who knew how to push his buttons. 

Who has Simmons had? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 11, 2021, 07:38:19 PM
If he is still available once December rolls around and we can include recent signees would you trade for him?

If so what do you feel would be the right package?
Title: No NO A Thousand Times NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: chipstern on September 11, 2021, 10:28:33 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 11, 2021, 07:38:19 PM
If he is still available once December rolls around and we can include recent signees would you trade for him?

If so what do you feel would be the right package?

Absolutely fucking NOT

He is a bad fit

Let me count the ways. 

* He is a spoiled brat.  Philly should never have given him a long term contract years before they had to...

* Despite his exceptional D, he is not a selfless kind of Thibs guy.  He has proven himself a self-absorbed prima donna who seems to lack the work ethic of guys like IQ and RJ and Julius [and Giannis] 

* We have four PGs, maybe five, and a sixth on ice: Walker, Rose, IQ, Deuce, Vildoza, Joku...

* You going to make him our starting SF?  And trade Fournier for him?  And who else to make up the $14 million in salary.

* Obviously Ben is a more formidable defender and facilitator than Evan...could be a great 3&D guy if you don't mind having no jumper and him missing 4-5-6 out of every ten foul shots. 

* [2021-22] $33,003,936  [22-23] $35,448,672 [23-24] $37,893,408 [24-25] $40,338,144  Do you really want to make this petulant cocksucker the highest paid player on the Knicks, and hitch your playoffs wagon to his paranoid ass?  He is not Giannis.  He is not Anthony Davis.  He is not Dame.  He is not Westbrook.  He is not Paul. Those are guys who compete at a much higher talent level, and spiritually are far more competitive.  They play an all around game and are all HARD as a motherfucker.  Gentle Ben is SOFT in the head. 

Hey, Julius is our highest paid player at 21.7, with Evan at 17.1 and Derrick at 13.4, then we have Alec at 9.5, Nerlens at 8.8, Kemba at 8.7, RJ at 8.6, Kevin at 5.8, Obi at 5.1 and Taj at 4.9

We have the 27th lowest payroll out of 30 teams. 

Apparently, according to Berman of the Post, Scott Perry made half a run at DeMar DeRozan, who apparently had genuine interest, and would've been a fine upgrade at SF, albeit not a 3-point floor stretcher like Evan, but an and ultra talented vet good for 21-7-6 night in and night out.  But he signed for a guaranteed three [$26,000,000 $27,300,000, $28,600,000] with the Bulls at age 32.  For THAT MONEY, we got Fournier [29] for three +/-1 and Walker [31] for 2. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 12, 2021, 10:02:24 AM
I'd certainly trade Fournier plus some role players for an all-star in Simmons.
Fournier + ObiT + Knox/Taj.  It'd be a steal.
Bad fit?  Figure it out later.
Trust Thibs to get Simmons to work hard.
A Simmons-Randle pairing could be fine.

Simmons is a Top 5 NBA defender.
(Giannis, Kawhi, maybe Embiid, Dray).  One of the very few who can genuinely guard 1-5.  Excellent in transition, great vision/passer.

You have Kemba, Rose, Burks, IQ, Randle to shoot.  RJB a scorer too.

I'd probably also do Fournier + ObiT + Noel, though PHI doesn't need Nawlins, so maybe he'd go to a 3rd team.  That feels like a more realistic level package.
But Knix not going far this year.  Simmons would be a major building block.

If I were PHI, I'd counter by asking for Fournier + RJB + one of Taj/Knox
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 12, 2021, 10:14:04 AM
Combined steals + blocks per 36 minutes

decreased

last year for R J Barrett

from a mehhh...  1.6 to

a putrid 1.1
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 12, 2021, 12:59:03 PM
That is the kind of stat that would make an idiot miss how much better RJs D got from year one to year two

Kid is just that kind of idiot
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 12, 2021, 01:17:43 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 12, 2021, 10:02:24 AM
I'd certainly trade Fournier plus some role players for an all-star in Simmons.
Fournier + ObiT + Knox/Taj.  It'd be a steal.
Bad fit?  Figure it out later.
Trust Thibs to get Simmons to work hard.
A Simmons-Randle pairing could be fine.

Simmons is a Top 5 NBA defender.
(Giannis, Kawhi, maybe Embiid, Dray).  One of the very few who can genuinely guard 1-5.  Excellent in transition, great vision/passer.

You have Kemba, Rose, Burks, IQ, Randle to shoot.  RJB a scorer too.

I'd probably also do Fournier + ObiT + Noel, though PHI doesn't need Nawlins, so maybe he'd go to a 3rd team.  That feels like a more realistic level package.
But Knix not going far this year.  Simmons would be a major building block.

If I were PHI, I'd counter by asking for Fournier + RJB + one of Taj/Knox

Lord Have Mercy.

You would trade RJ, wouldn't you? 

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/DecimalSelfishDolphin-size_restricted.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 12, 2021, 01:41:18 PM
Lord Have Mercy.

You would trade RJ, wouldn't you

Where did he say that?
Title: Q&A for retards
Post by: carlos123 on September 12, 2021, 01:48:28 PM
Q:
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on September 12, 2021, 01:41:18 PM
Lord Have Mercy.

You would trade RJ, wouldn't you

Where did he say that?

A:
Quote from: BoZizzley on September 12, 2021, 10:02:24 AM
If I were PHI, I'd counter by asking for Fournier + RJB + one of Taj/Knox

COMMENT:
Quote from: chipstern on September 12, 2021, 01:17:43 PM
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/DecimalSelfishDolphin-size_restricted.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 12, 2021, 02:08:15 PM
Didn't take a position on it.
Just said that that's likely what PHI would ask.
They want players who can contribute now.

If they could get Fournier and RJB + a role player (Taj/Knox), they could be interested.  I doubt Fournier + some backups would excite PHI much.
Sounds like Malik Beasley redux.

Anyway, if Fournicator can't be traded until Dec 15, it's unlikely Simmons stays in PHI that long.  Though possible.
Title: If The Shrew Fits
Post by: chipstern on September 12, 2021, 02:58:27 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 12, 2021, 12:59:03 PM
That is the kind of stat that would make an idiot miss how much better RJs D got from year one to year two

Kid is just that kind of idiot

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-FM4Vn9fMwX4/UB05c8-CepI/AAAAAAAAAmI/mo0DuHiHuXM/s1600/hankhill.gif)

Perhaps if RJ had a lighter complexion. 
Title: Chemistry
Post by: chipstern on September 12, 2021, 03:12:38 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 12, 2021, 02:08:15 PM
Didn't take a position on it.
Just said that that's likely what PHI would ask.
They want players who can contribute now.

If they could get Fournier and RJB + a role player (Taj/Knox), they could be interested.  I doubt Fournier + some backups would excite PHI much.
Sounds like Malik Beasley redux.

Anyway, if Fournicator can't be traded until Dec 15, it's unlikely Simmons stays in PHI that long.  Though possible.

I feel you.

Don't see your projections as working chemistry wise. 

The notion that Thibs would embrace Simmons? 

Yes & No. 

Mostly for me, it comes down to being locked into that fucking level of contract commitment to a player whose leadership level is way way below his talent level. 

Again, at the risk of being a broken record [and when has that ever stopped me], given Ben's extraordinary physical stature, at 6'11" 240, and his grace and nimbleness for a player of that size...I think when they Sixers decided to go all in, give him a max, and lock him up, they thought they were getting, oh, I don't know, MAGIC JOHNSON. 

I just DO NOT UNDERSTAND how with all of that talent, he does not have a fire in his belly to get better, and Better AND BETTER, and to dominate, set the tone on offense. 

I mean, what could be more basic than shooting jumpers and making your free throws.  And giving Simmons aptitude for getting to the rack, literally at will, any time he puts his mind to it, he could be getting to the line 6-8-10 times a day.  Magic, as his career advanced, went from getting to the line 300-400 times a season, to 500-675 times a season. 

Anyway, Gentle Ben ain't coming to NY, and there is no way on God's Green Earth I see Leon Rose gutting his team for Ben Simmons. 
Title: Re: If The Shrew Fits
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 12, 2021, 08:15:03 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 12, 2021, 02:58:27 PM


Perhaps if RJ had a lighter complexion.

I have championed Barrett here more than anyone

I also do not have blinders on
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 12, 2021, 08:16:36 PM
Chip - stop listening to the press re:  Simmons
Title: Re: Q&A for retards
Post by: carlos123 on September 12, 2021, 09:16:05 PM
Quote from: czarlos123 on September 12, 2021, 01:48:28 PM
Q:
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on September 12, 2021, 01:41:18 PM
Lord Have Mercy.

You would trade RJ, wouldn't you

Where did he say that?

A:
Quote from: BoZizzley on September 12, 2021, 10:02:24 AM
If I were PHI, I'd counter by asking for Fournier + RJB + one of Taj/Knox

COMMENT:
Quote from: chipstern on September 12, 2021, 01:17:43 PM
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/DecimalSelfishDolphin-size_restricted.gif)

Quote from: BoZizzley on September 12, 2021, 02:08:15 PM
Didn't take a position on it.

And I didn't imply that you did, just that you said it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 12, 2021, 10:10:12 PM
Interesting


https://thesixersense.com/2021/09/12/sixers-3-possible-ben-simmons-trades-cavaliers/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 12, 2021, 11:49:58 PM
With Minny and Cleveland there is now a bidding war with Ben between two crappy teams.

Unless he has a no trade clause which I have not heard mentioned this will be resolved soon.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 13, 2021, 12:16:04 AM
All up to the Philly GM

How big a dick in the end does he want to make Doc Rivers look like?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 13, 2021, 01:21:48 PM
Mostly silly Cav trades.
PHI wants to win now with a healthy prime Embiid.
They don't want role players and picks.

ESP Network writer picked 6 2021 non-lottery picks he thinks will significantly outperform their draft spots. 
https://www.espn.in/nba/insider/story/_/id/32191787/five-nba-rookies-most-likely-outperform-season
4 of them the Knix could have drafted: Jalen Johnson, Cam Thomas, Bones Hyland.  Plus  Keon Johnson who I'm unfamiliar with (taken in the Knix original #21 slot).

He's also high on Minny's 2020 Euro-stash Leandro Bolmaro a 6'7" Argentinian combo G.  #23 pick.

Hope our rooks are up for the task.  But Jalen Johnson and Cam Thomas seem promising.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 13, 2021, 01:37:06 PM
I think the Knicks drafted for FIT as well

A blossoming sniper 2 guard does what exactly to Barrett?

Knicks wanted guys to max wins for this season, not create puzzles re playing time.  Grimes is a perfect second unit guy if he shows well.  No great expectation of minutes.  McBride or Quickley become tradeable now that there are 2 of them.  And TRADE is what we seek, make no mistake.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 13, 2021, 01:54:46 PM
Kareem launches on SUBSTACK.  Writings on sports and politics

https://kareem.substack.com/p/welcome-to-my-world-of-sports-politics
Title: WOULDA COULDA SHOULDA [The Bo Diddley Chronicles]
Post by: chipstern on September 13, 2021, 02:40:31 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 13, 2021, 01:21:48 PM
Mostly silly Cav trades.
PHI wants to win now with a healthy prime Embiid.
They don't want role players and picks.

ESP Network writer picked 6 2021 non-lottery picks he thinks will significantly outperform their draft spots. 
https://www.espn.in/nba/insider/story/_/id/32191787/five-nba-rookies-most-likely-outperform-season
4 of them the Knix could have drafted: Jalen Johnson, Cam Thomas, Bones Hyland.  Plus  Keon Johnson who I'm unfamiliar with (taken in the Knix original #21 slot).

He's also high on Minny's 2020 Euro-stash Leandro Bolmaro a 6'7" Argentinian combo G.  #23 pick.

Hope our rooks are up for the task.  But Jalen Johnson and Cam Thomas seem promising.

Lordy, you cannot help yourself can you.  WOULDA COULDA SHOULDA.  Tell me...did you WATCH the Knicks in Summer League? 

Cam Thomas had an excellent Summer. 

SO DID OUR OWN Quentin Grimes, similar game and size and stroke...not to mention PG Miles McBride who will shortly be tasked with guarding arch super villain Trae Young, and yes the Nyets scored when Hyland dropped to them in the late first, but we nabbed a steal in Jericho Sims at #58.  At FIFTY EIGHT. 

YOU CANNOT DRAFT EVERYONE

Bolmaro was drafted by the Knicks at #23, then offloaded in the jockeying for draft picks and draft position, present and future, that produced # 25 pick, Immanuel Quickley and #33 pick Daniel Oturu, who they unloaded for a future #2 [they supposedly wanted Duke C Vernon Carey, but he went to Hornets at #32].  Feel free to second guess passing on PG Theo Maledon at #34. 

Jalen Johnson fell to the Hawks at #20 because we and other teams passed, a little leery of his time and tribulations and Duke, not his talent. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 13, 2021, 02:49:04 PM
If Johnson can play small forward I might consider him a miss depending on how Grimes turns out

If he is limited to power forward this was not the squad for him
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 13, 2021, 02:57:43 PM
Thats quite fair though I still like Barrett at the 3 with a sniper 2
Title: Simmons
Post by: chipstern on September 13, 2021, 03:06:34 PM
Sacramento could offer...probably IS OFFERING...

Hield
Bagley

&

AND? 

Draft Capital

And/Or Harrison Barnes. 

They will NOT be offering Haliburton or Fox or Davion Mitchell. 

Philly is not going to do better than that.  Not perfect.  But Bagley might finally blossom in a new Culture, and Hield gives them a dead eye to go with Danny Green.  Maxy and Shake Milton can handle the point.   

Wolves have NOTHING without some package involving D'Angelo, and they kinda DON'T want to do that. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 13, 2021, 03:18:33 PM
Bagley being in a deal is just media speculation
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 13, 2021, 03:27:28 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 13, 2021, 02:49:04 PM
If Johnson can play small forward I might consider him a miss depending on how Grimes turns out

If he is limited to power forward this was not the squad for him

https://www.nba.com/draft/2021/prospects/jalen-johnson (https://www.nba.com/draft/2021/prospects/jalen-johnson)

He is not projected as a PF but rather as a SF-G, a big wing at 6'9" 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 13, 2021, 03:28:34 PM
Here are the Sacramento bigs (looking to make a playoff run, remember)

H Barnes
A Len
C Metu
R Holmes
T Thompson
N Keta
D Jones
M BAGLEY


I dont think Sac wishes to deal out of Marvin at the starting 5, Holmes and Barnes battling for the 4.  Len/Thompson and a host of others seeking backup 5 minutes
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 13, 2021, 07:48:21 PM
Internet deal

Knicks get Chip's fave BEASLEY

Minnesota gets Burks, Knox and CHA's #1 in 2022
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 13, 2021, 08:24:12 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 13, 2021, 03:27:28 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 13, 2021, 02:49:04 PM
If Johnson can play small forward I might consider him a miss depending on how Grimes turns out

If he is limited to power forward this was not the squad for him

https://www.nba.com/draft/2021/prospects/jalen-johnson (https://www.nba.com/draft/2021/prospects/jalen-johnson)

He is not projected as a PF but rather as a SF-G, a big wing at 6'9"

Given who else is on Atlanta he will be guarding the less dangerous of the 3 or 4 when he is on the court at least while he learns the game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 13, 2021, 09:12:36 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 13, 2021, 08:24:12 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 13, 2021, 03:27:28 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 13, 2021, 02:49:04 PM
If Johnson can play small forward I might consider him a miss depending on how Grimes turns out

If he is limited to power forward this was not the squad for him

https://www.nba.com/draft/2021/prospects/jalen-johnson (https://www.nba.com/draft/2021/prospects/jalen-johnson)

He is not projected as a PF but rather as a SF-G, a big wing at 6'9"

Given who else is on Atlanta he will be guarding the less dangerous of the 3 or 4 when he is on the court at least while he learns the game.


Some pretty talented people ahead of him in the scrum.  DeAndre Hunter.  Gallinari. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 13, 2021, 09:19:56 PM
A wonderful wild card, Johnson.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 14, 2021, 12:20:23 AM
I haven't seen any of these players (including Grimes).
Just passing on info.  Obviously I hope the Knix made a good choice and got a good player.  Minor worry they outsmarted themselves with their wheeling and dealing and could have just drafted at their set slots and gotten 2 nice players.  We'll see.

With the Knix talent level and middle of the road prospects, you hope you can find one starter among two picks in the early/mid 20's.  More likely you get a contributing role player such as Quix.  But there are always a few future starters out there from 20-40, and you hope to find them.  I usually prefer drafting for fit, but this year I would have gone solely on talent/BPA.  If either Cam or Jalen projects as a starter, I want in.

Jalen Johnson was from most accounts a lottery talent who had character questions for how he left his college team (and HS as well?).  That motivation/maturity risk is why he dropped.  ATL has a deep team and could take a flyer on a risk/reward prospect.  Knix could have done the same given 2 picks in the 20's.
As some remarked here, Bones Hyground sounds rather duplicative of Quickly.

As for RJB, I think he's a pretty flexible cat.  Can play at either wing slot on both ends.  And do agree that his defense took leaps last season.  He was our key switch and close out wing, having to make instant read and react decisions. 
Compare to when Burks was in the same role on the 2nd unit and would drift too far away from his man, get buried by screens he didn't see forming, hesitate or make the wrong closeout read.  RJB is a solid man defender but a very good off ball defender -- was quite nice as a switch/help/closeout team defender.   As a hard worker, RJ should be able to up his on ball D more.  Has a bit of trouble with quick first step bursts, and likes to be physical which gets him into foul trouble at times.  But nicely competitive.  While his steal rate might be somewhat low, likely due to mostly playing off-ball help D, it seemed he got a fair amount of deflections (as does Quix).  Not sure if anyone has deflection stats available, and for RJB the help role will damp that down some as well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 14, 2021, 01:23:27 AM
In terms of talent and technique our two best perimeter defenders might be the rooks Grimes and McBride. Both are strong for their size and have really good balance on quick feet. They make good choices and stay active and engaged every possession all possession that we saw.

With the switch from Payton to Walker and Bullock to Fornier we dropped defensively while we upped our fire power. As a result we might see the rooks play as defensive substitutes. It helps they both move the ball and hit shots.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 14, 2021, 11:41:46 AM
In terms of talent and technique our two best perimeter defenders might be the rooks Grimes and McBride.


wow
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 14, 2021, 11:51:12 AM
Former NBA All-Star and Slam Dunk Contest champion Cedric Ceballos tweeted Monday that he had been moved out of isolation and was just about free of COVID

Great news.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 14, 2021, 12:32:49 PM
More like minor good news.
Out of isolation, still in ICU where he's been for 2+ weeks.

Quote
Cedric Ceballos tweeted Monday that he'd been moved out of isolation and was "COVID-19 free" but was still in the intensive care unit and dealing with several things relating to the virus.

Thanking those wishing him well in recent days, Ceballos said that while he is out of isolation, he still is unable to "breathe, walk or function" on his own yet.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 14, 2021, 12:44:59 PM
Quote
In terms of talent and technique our two best perimeter defenders might be the rooks Grimes and McBride.
For a number of reasons, rooks rarely are good defenders.  They need to learn/get used to:
- the speed of the game
- the tendencies of opponents
- team defensive schemes and responsibilities
- NBA reffing

Some rooks come out of the box as talented defenders, but most good young defenders take a couple years to adapt and make an impact.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 14, 2021, 12:58:58 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 14, 2021, 12:32:49 PM
More like minor good news.
Out of isolation, still in ICU where he's been for 2+ weeks.

Quote
Cedric Ceballos tweeted Monday that he'd been moved out of isolation and was "COVID-19 free" but was still in the intensive care unit and dealing with several things relating to the virus.

Thanking those wishing him well in recent days, Ceballos said that while he is out of isolation, he still is unable to "breathe, walk or function" on his own yet.

Like I said - great news
Title: Summer League & A Short Term/Long Term Plan
Post by: chipstern on September 14, 2021, 01:51:51 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 14, 2021, 12:20:23 AM
I haven't seen any of these players (including Grimes).
Just passing on info.  Obviously I hope the Knix made a good choice and got a good player.  Minor worry they outsmarted themselves with their wheeling and dealing and could have just drafted at their set slots and gotten 2 nice players.  We'll see.

With the Knix talent level and middle of the road prospects, you hope you can find one starter among two picks in the early/mid 20's.  More likely you get a contributing role player such as Quix.  But there are always a few future starters out there from 20-40, and you hope to find them.  I usually prefer drafting for fit, but this year I would have gone solely on talent/BPA.  If either Cam or Jalen projects as a starter, I want in.

Jalen Johnson was from most accounts a lottery talent who had character questions for how he left his college team (and HS as well?).  That motivation/maturity risk is why he dropped.  ATL has a deep team and could take a flyer on a risk/reward prospect.  Knix could have done the same given 2 picks in the 20's.
As some remarked here, Bones Hyground sounds rather duplicative of Quickly.

As for RJB, I think he's a pretty flexible cat.  Can play at either wing slot on both ends.  And do agree that his defense took leaps last season.  He was our key switch and close out wing, having to make instant read and react decisions. 
Compare to when Burks was in the same role on the 2nd unit and would drift too far away from his man, get buried by screens he didn't see forming, hesitate or make the wrong closeout read.  RJB is a solid man defender but a very good off ball defender -- was quite nice as a switch/help/closeout team defender.   As a hard worker, RJ should be able to up his on ball D more.  Has a bit of trouble with quick first step bursts, and likes to be physical which gets him into foul trouble at times.  But nicely competitive.  While his steal rate might be somewhat low, likely due to mostly playing off-ball help D, it seemed he got a fair amount of deflections (as does Quix).  Not sure if anyone has deflection stats available, and for RJB the help role will damp that down some as well.

Yes, I know, only Summer League...

I was hip to talk of Thibs' unbridled enthusiasm for McBride, but not of the team having Quentin Grimes on their radar. 

Quentin had a rough go in his first two games, but from the third game on he was lights out from three, was able to create his own shot and defended.  Physically, he is of a piece with RJ and Burks, a solid 6'5" 

There is a video of him with his Mom and Dad and extended family, and when the Knicks drafted him, he was completely overwhelmed.  His college coach is very much in the Thibs mold, and retooled and advanced his game on both ends of the court after arriving in Houston from a rough start at Kansas. 

McBride is 6'3" with purportedly the largest set of hands in the draft and a 6'9" wingspan.  His tenacity on defense made my skin tingle, and put me in mind of the relentlessness of Charlie Ward.  Offensively, going to the hoop is still a work in progress, but his long range shooting was impeccable, as were his instincts for getting open and launching with minimal daylight. 

Center Jericho Sims has nice coordination and other worldly hops.  He was an offensive rebounding machine finishing at the rack.  We passed on some nice bigs in the first, those kids who ended up on Indy and Brooklyn, but there is something to work with here. 

The 20 year old #34 pick/stash Jokubaitis didn't play much but showed excellent court vision and range, instincts in transition, and some defensive acumen and tenacity. 

Additionally IQ and Obi showed some significant development.  IQ still chucks and looks for his own shot too often, but in spite of that, he averaged 7.8 assists a game.  Obi showed progress inside and outside and in transition.  Both were very efficient from the FT line. 

Sims-Toppin-Grimes-IQ-McBride

Some of the 10-Day contract cats such as M.J Walker showed some moxie. 

As for my rooting interest in Luca Vildoza, his Olympic funk continued and then he got hurt.  Be interesting to see what happens in training camp.  We fronted him 3.5 million in 2021 for a reason, but his 2021-2022 second year of his three remaining years of team options is not set in stone unless he is on the opening night roster.  Prigioni and Campazzo both spoke very highly of him, and his YouTube videos show a talented combo guard.  We shall see. 

As for management being too clever?  Perhaps.  The thinking seemed to be that putting our #19 pick in cold storage with Charlotte saved us 2.7 million this year, and exchanging our #21 for a second rounder and #25 saved the Knicks another 600 thousand or so, which coincidentally, sums out out to the 3.3 million we fronted Vildoza and the 3.1 million we might give him in 2021-2022, or a substantial hunk of Taj's $4,910,000-$5,155,500 through 2023. 

And while we were fairly generous with Derrick Rose, and why the fuck not, he helped bring us to the playoffs, and is Thibs' man [$13,445,120 $14,520,730 $15,596,339], we did not go crazy on our re-ups Alec and Nerlens, nor on Kemba, happy campers all...

Alec Burks           $9,536,000   $10,012,800   $10,489,600   
Nerlens Noel   $8,800,000   $9,240,000   $9,680,000   
Kemba Walker   $8,729,020   $9,165,471   $0

Yes, there was certainly talent to be had with 19 & 21, but their calculation that Grimes would be there at #25, and McBride at #36 was pretty good horse trading.  And Jokubaitis appears to actually be on our future radar, unlike our last few Euro-Stashes. 

So, yes, second guessing in a very rich draft is surely legit, but clearly Rose and Aller and Perry had some kind of plan.  Hell, purportedly made a play for one of GM Chip's targets in DeMar DeRozan, who is said to have shown interest, but his signing numbers for the Bulls [$26,000,000 $27,300,000   $28,600,000], all guaranteed, coincidentally sums out to what we paid for Fournier [$17,142,857 $18,000,000 $18,857,143 $19,000,000] and Walker [$8,729,020 $9,165,471], and while DeRozan is clearly a more accomplished all around player than Fournier, he does not stretch the defense with 3-point shooting [a career 360-1282/.281% vs Evan's [1050-2768/.379%].  So there was a thoughtful calculation there.   

C: Noels, Robinson

PF-C: Randle, Toppin, Gibson, Sims

SF-PF: Knox

SG-SF: Barrett, Fournier, Burks, Grimes

PG-SG: Rose, Walker, Quickley, McBride, Vildoza

So, it depends on how Vildoza and Sims show in training camp.  Probably makes more sense for Sims to do the 2-way thing in Westchester, but then again...and when we signed Vildoza, Payton-Ntilikinka-Harper-Pinson were ahead of him in the PG scrum.  Now it's Walker-Rose-Quickley-McBride, which is a horse of a different fire department [PS: Chip's beloved MiniMe, Jared Harper, just signed with the Pelicans].  And of course, WHAT OF KEVIN KNOX?  If he has a fire in his belly, and expects minutes at a crowded 3-4, this training camp is make or break. 

Oh and let's not overlook the bond between coaches, management and Julius Randle    [$21,780,000 $26,136,000   $28,226,880 $30,317,760 $32,408,640], who is projected to have left $80,000,000 on the table by not re-upping for the SuperMax in the summer of 2022 at the conclusion of his Steve Mills 3-year jobber. 

So AGAIN, raising WOULDA-COULDA-SHOULDA scenarios are legit.  But we have a 3-deep roster, with a lot of yute whom we are ACTUALLY DEVELOPING; when we rewarded our re-ups, we did not go postal in rewarding them for their service and raising their games; in replacing Bullock & Payton with Fournier and Walker, we swapped out defense for players who can create their own offense, from long range and for others in the pick & roll, which was shown to be sorely lacking against Atlanta; we kept cap flex with two year deals on Walker and Gibson, and third year options on Rose, Noels and Burks. 

And while we passed on some real talent in the draft, we did not come out empty handed. 

So, like...A PLAN. 

PS: And as for the roll of the dice calculation in making the #1 we get back from the Hornets in 2022 Top-18 protected?  Consider a healthy Gordon Hayward [always a big if, but he can ball].  Consider LaMelo Ball one year older and one year wiser in a back court with a re-upped Terry Rozier.  Consider PJ Washington and Jalen McDaniels and Vernon Carey as motivated sophomores.  Consider their high upside #1 picks, ace shooting guard James Bouknight of UConn [who was very much on the Knicks radar, along with Duarte], big men Kai Jones [who they took with the #19 pick] and JT Thor [at #37].  And FREE AGENTS/New Additons?  Try Ish Smith, Mason Plumleee, and [AND] Kelly Oubre.  The Hornets are going to be way the fuck better in 2021-2022, jousting with the Sixers-Knicks-Hawks-Pacers-Wizards-Bulls in a fierce scrum for those 4-though-10 spots.  Mitch Kupchak has done a really good job with Charlotte.  But so have Rose-Aller-Perry, who have a good shot at copping TWO #1 picks in 2022, and God knows how many #2 picks.  And a full season to take the measure of PG stash Rokas Jokubaitis in the Spanish League.

So, A PLAN. 

Title: Weird
Post by: carlos123 on September 14, 2021, 01:52:16 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on September 14, 2021, 12:58:58 PM
Quote from: BoZizzley on September 14, 2021, 12:32:49 PM
More like minor good news.
Out of isolation, still in ICU where he's been for 2+ weeks.

Quote
Cedric Ceballos tweeted Monday that he'd been moved out of isolation and was "COVID-19 free" but was still in the intensive care unit and dealing with several things relating to the virus.

Thanking those wishing him well in recent days, Ceballos said that while he is out of isolation, he still is unable to "breathe, walk or function" on his own yet.

Like I said - great news

Chamaco, you do know that, among many other qualities, you are very weird, right? I mean, like really, really WEIRD.
Title: THIS Just In
Post by: chipstern on September 14, 2021, 02:05:22 PM
After meeting and seeing eye-to-eye on the direction of the Houston Rockets, the franchise and John Wall have agreed on working together to find a new home for the five-time All-Star guard, sources tell The Athletic. The plan is for Wall to remain present around the Rockets entering training camp, which begins late this month, and to not play in games for Houston this season, sources said.

In a meeting between Wall and the Rockets recently, Houston officials explained to Wall the direction of the franchise and that the team wants to protect the veteran guard.

So...WALL + Draft Assets for Simmons? 

Due to Houston being over the cap and having a post-trade Team Salary over the Tax Threshold, the 25% trade rule is invoked. Houston could not receive more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here.

Due to Philadelphia being under the cap and choosing to invoke the Cap Room rule, Philadelphia could not go over the cap by more than $100,000 of post-trade Team Salary, which did happen here.

This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 14, 2021, 04:36:56 PM
heh

Beasley deal was better
Title: #25 & #36
Post by: chipstern on September 14, 2021, 05:36:51 PM
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/s960x960/240967391_10162547505139616_495474068185917687_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=nzb05r93-jgAX9ypGl_&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=837beecc63b7b70c992269c4fd8fc7be&oe=6146AB7E)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 14, 2021, 06:13:02 PM
Knicks are fine with McBride - had a nice summer - but were perfectly willing to settle for a Butler.  Thus the deal down

Knicks didnt want young guys (read - FRESHMAN pick).  All or mostly freshmen taken 19-24.

The decision came down to - at 25 - Q Grimes or NaShon Hyland - where if we take Hyland we then take the BPA at 36, likely a JOE WEISKAMP

Hyland, still JackoBYE at 34 and then Weiskamp a nice alternative reality.
Title: The Vildoza Chronicles
Post by: chipstern on September 14, 2021, 08:17:48 PM
https://empiresportsmedia.com/new-york-knicks/luca-vildoza-will-rejoin-knicks-this-week/ (https://empiresportsmedia.com/new-york-knicks/luca-vildoza-will-rejoin-knicks-this-week/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 14, 2021, 08:29:35 PM
Very seldom do you just ...POOF..discover a guy - out of nowhere - no other team having him on their radar
Title: Re: Weird
Post by: facilitatorn on September 14, 2021, 10:23:30 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on September 14, 2021, 01:52:16 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on September 14, 2021, 12:58:58 PM
Quote from: BoZizzley on September 14, 2021, 12:32:49 PM
More like minor good news.
Out of isolation, still in ICU where he's been for 2+ weeks.

Quote
Cedric Ceballos tweeted Monday that he'd been moved out of isolation and was "COVID-19 free" but was still in the intensive care unit and dealing with several things relating to the virus.

Thanking those wishing him well in recent days, Ceballos said that while he is out of isolation, he still is unable to "breathe, walk or function" on his own yet.

Like I said - great news

Chamaco, you do know that, among many other qualities, you are very weird, right? I mean, like really, really WEIRD.

Kiid is not weird

Kiid is horribly fucked up in a very generic and boring way.

He is utterly replaceable by any other alabastard moron out there. No one would ever miss a beat.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 14, 2021, 10:32:24 PM
Rokas highlights

http://youtu.be/N7Fcb3CxBTU (http://youtu.be/N7Fcb3CxBTU)
Title: Re: Weird
Post by: chipstern on September 14, 2021, 10:33:22 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 14, 2021, 10:23:30 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on September 14, 2021, 01:52:16 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on September 14, 2021, 12:58:58 PM
Quote from: BoZizzley on September 14, 2021, 12:32:49 PM
More like minor good news.
Out of isolation, still in ICU where he's been for 2+ weeks.

Quote
Cedric Ceballos tweeted Monday that he'd been moved out of isolation and was "COVID-19 free" but was still in the intensive care unit and dealing with several things relating to the virus.

Thanking those wishing him well in recent days, Ceballos said that while he is out of isolation, he still is unable to "breathe, walk or function" on his own yet.

Like I said - great news

Chamaco, you do know that, among many other qualities, you are very weird, right? I mean, like really, really WEIRD.

Kiid is not weird

Kiid is horribly fucked up in a very generic and boring way.

He is utterly replaceable by any other alabastard moron out there. No one would ever miss a beat.

(https://readingwithhighlighters.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/squirrels.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 14, 2021, 11:00:49 PM
For anyone keeping track I am adjusting my prediction to 49 wins good for 5th in the East.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 15, 2021, 01:32:27 AM
Finally

Something to root for on the Mavs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 15, 2021, 04:24:40 AM
Knix executed their draft plan.  The question is whether it was the right plan?
With Franc out of the league, Knox coming along super slow, and hitting on KZ but then trading him in a classic sell low for next to nothing, Knix need to get drafts right.  Especially as we've moved into the middle tier and will likely be drafting 15-20 from now on.  This was said to be an exceptionally deep draft. 

Obi and Quix appear to be solid picks, but not starters, at least while we have Uncle Julius in place.  And he's our cornerstone.

A good deal depends this season on keeping our brittle aging PG's healthy.
I like that we have yutes to develop. Would love to see Knox playing physical and knocking people around on both ends. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on September 15, 2021, 07:26:03 AM
---Report: Frank Ntilikina expected to sign with Mavericks---

Cant shoot, pass, or play D. just an highly overated euro. One of the big Knick draft busts of all time. No no just give him time his departed drafters shouted.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 15, 2021, 09:31:43 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 14, 2021, 11:00:49 PM
For anyone keeping track I am adjusting my prediction to 49 wins good for 5th in the East.

Nope - cant do it

But good luck with that
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 15, 2021, 09:33:17 AM
---Report: Frank Ntilikina expected to sign with Mavericks---


Luka needs a driver
Title: Your Dallas Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 15, 2021, 01:12:16 PM
Kristaps Porzingis

Timmy Hardaway Jr.

Trey Burke

[Frank Ntilikina]
Title: The Genius Of BoD [TRADE WINDS]
Post by: chipstern on September 15, 2021, 02:17:11 PM
Exactly how many times are you going to willfully invoke your smug, simplistic assertion that THE KNICKS WERE SNOOKERED AND GOT NO RETURN FOR KRISTAPS PORZINGIS? 

When in point of fact, our 2021 return to the playoffs and the depth and breadth of our current roster is predicated on the assets and cap space we salted away from that trade and deployed on short term/make good/team option Free agent deals that have been rolled over not just once, not just twice, but THREE TIMES going into 2021-2022.   

Dennis Smith + #42 pick [from Charlotte, Hernan-Gomez Trade] > Derrick Rose

2021 Dallas #1 Pick [#21] > Keon Johnson [to Clippers] for #25 pick [Quentin Grimes + Future #2 pick]

DeAndre Jordan, Wes Matthews > Significant Cap Space

Timmy Hardaway, Trey Burks, Courtney Lee > Significant Cap Space

Cap Space #1 [Mills Strikes Out On Durant/Irving] > Julius Randle, Marcus Morris, Taj Gibson, Bobby Portis, Reggie Bullock, Elfrid Payton, Wayne Ellington

Marcus Morris > Moe Harkless, 2020 Clippers #1 Pick [Immanuel Quickley], 2021 Clippers/Pistons #32 Pick [Blake Griffin Trade] > OKC #34/#36 Picks [Rokas Jokeubaitis, Miles McBride]

Cap Space #2 [Enter Leon Rose] > Nerlens Noel, Alex Burks, Elfrid Payton, Austin Rivers, Taj Gibson.

Austin Rivers + Ignas Brazdeikis > Terrence Ferguson + Vincent Poirier + Sixers 2nd Round Pick/#58 [Jericho Sims]

Cap Space #3A > Julius Randle [Long Term Re-Up], Derrick Rose [2 + 3/Team Option], Nerlens Noel [2 + 3/Team Option], Alex Burks [2 + 3/Team Option], Kemba Walker [2]

Cap Space #3B > Reggie Bullock > Evan Fournier [3 +4/Team Option]. 

So let's see.

Kristaps Porzingis, Timmy Hardaway, Courtney Lee, Trey Burks > Julius Randle, Evan Fournier, Derrick Rose, Kemba Walker, Taj Gibson, Immanuel Quickley, Quentin Grimes, Rokas Jokubiaitis, Miles McBride, Jericho Sims, Charlotte 2022 #1 Pick [Top 18 Protected], Dallas 2023 #1 Pick [Top 10 Protected], Sundry #2 Picks. 

I count 4 players out, and NINE KEEPERS on our current roster [and Rokas on ice in Spain], other transactions notwithstanding, for at least the next two seasons, plus a host of #2 picks on down the line, and potentially [Charlotte willing] TWO #1 picks in 2021-2022, and potentially TWO #1 picks in 2022-2023. 

A host of short term reasonable--Eminently FLIPPABLE--contracts plus four #1 picks and sundry #2 picks over the next two seasons, should, RealGM willing, that elusive SuperDuperStar wet dream of our most fervent desire, such as, oh, I don't know, ZION WILLIAMSON, run a Ben Simmons Game on New Orleans, and want out of that directionless scrum [how exactly did they let Lonzo walk...am sure that impressed Zion]. 

In lieu of wondering when Kristaps is going to heal and mature and reach his full potential [IF EVER].     

Scott Perry being the common link between the Steve Mills & Leon Rose Epochs. 

Scott managed to turn Phil Jackson's petty, mean-spirited, vindictive evisceration of his own No-Trade Clause Carmelo contract into OKC's Enes Kanter, Doug McDermott and their #36 pick from Chicago [MITCHELL ROBINSON].  McDermott for Emmanuel Mudiay was a strange side step, as it complicated attempts to develop Frank Ntilikina, and McDermott while not a classic 3&D in the BoD sense, could sure fucking shoot from three, and has evolved a better all around game, while Fizdale's Player Development Scrum [with the exception of rookies Mitchell Robinson and Kevin Knox, who was ass fucked in favor of Marcus Morris the very next season] resulted in Emmanuel Mudiay, Noah Vonleh, Kyle O'Quinn, Mario Herzonja and Luke Kornet ALL BEING ALLOWED TO FUCKING WALK, not bidding against ourselves come summer and simply waiving Kanter [whom I really liked, and who was not the reason we sucked, and whom Fizz publically dissed in favor of tadpole Robinson], and leave us not forget Fizz's pet Alonzo Trier, who subsequently played himself out of the league [one of Leon Rose's first moves was to dump him]. 

So, Mills/Perry PLAN A, a Dud.

On to Plan B, which was predicated on Durant/Irving, but when that fell through, Plan C, with all of those 1+ 1 contracts, then firing Fizdale a few weeks in, hiring interim coach Mike Miller.

Then on to Plan D, which included flipping Steve Mills for Leon Rose and flipping Mike Miller for Tom Thibodeau, and retaining Scott Perry, and whom ultimately translated all of those NON-ASSETS BoD asserts we didn't get from the Porizingis Deal into a Playoff Berth and our 2021-2022/2022-2023 Knicks moving forward, with a mix of vets, young vets, and yute, in lieu of a talented but self-entitled 7'3" brat with surgically repaired limbs who didn't want to be a Knick. 

In short, our current status as a playoff contender, coming off of a 41-31 2020/2021 season with a refurbished competitive culture and a far more talented roster than the 2018-2019/17-65 Fizdale Knicks or the 29-53/2017-2018 Porzingis/Hornacek Knicks. 

So Bo, we got snookered in the Porzingis Trade?  Play that song in B Flat.  A deep talented roster, a host of talented puppies, a beaucoup of draft assets, a winning record and playoff contention heading into 2021-2022 would seem to contradict your ohSoBO[old] assertion. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 15, 2021, 05:25:26 PM
Chip thinks we landed D Rose only because we had Dennis to offer

Cute.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 15, 2021, 05:39:46 PM
http://theknickswall.com/who-will-shape-out-the-knicks-2021-22-roster-dwayne-bacon-luca-vildoza/ (http://theknickswall.com/who-will-shape-out-the-knicks-2021-22-roster-dwayne-bacon-luca-vildoza/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 15, 2021, 06:04:47 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 15, 2021, 05:25:26 PM
Chip thinks we landed D Rose only because we had Dennis to offer

Cute.

Kiid thinks he is cute.

And that Ann Coulter is a hottie, Tucker Carlson is smart and Donald Trump is wise.

What's scary is that he can procreate and he can vote.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on September 15, 2021, 06:38:08 PM
coach and GM finally on same page. Talent does not seem up to 50-60?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 15, 2021, 06:56:43 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 15, 2021, 06:04:47 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 15, 2021, 05:25:26 PM
Chip thinks we landed D Rose only because we had Dennis to offer

Cute.

Kiid thinks he is cute.

And that Ann Coulter is a hottie, Tucker Carlson is smart and Donald Trump is wise.

What's scary is that he can procreate and he can vote.

Coulter portrayed in new Clinton-Lewinsky miniseries.  First 2 hours not so good.
Title: Really?
Post by: carlos123 on September 15, 2021, 07:00:21 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 15, 2021, 06:04:47 PM
Quote from: chamAAcocartero8 on September 15, 2021, 05:25:26 PM
Chip thinks we landed D Rose only because we had Dennis to offer

Cute.

Kiid thinks he is cute.

And that Ann Coulter is a hottie, Tucker Carlson is smart and Donald Trump is wise.

What's scary is that he can procreate and he can vote.

Chip, are you sure about your last assertion? I'm not.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 15, 2021, 07:34:05 PM
Thank you Carlos
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 15, 2021, 08:14:07 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 15, 2021, 07:34:05 PM
Thank you Carlos

(https://i.pinimg.com/474x/6b/a1/60/6ba160fc7a30bee538ae6d2566b8eff1.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 15, 2021, 09:11:45 PM
Training camp has not opened. There is still time to make adjustments before predictions are locked. 

The downgrade comes as I have soured a bit on our team defense. I expect some slippage there and that slippage will cost us a few games.
Title: Welcome
Post by: carlos123 on September 15, 2021, 09:46:57 PM
Quote from: Fac PP#2 on September 15, 2021, 07:34:05 PM
Thank you Carlos

You're most welcome.

I must say Chamaco's objection sorta helped your cause of getting an update 😜
Title: Spoiled
Post by: carlos123 on September 15, 2021, 09:51:47 PM
Quote from: Chip PP#1 on September 15, 2021, 08:14:07 PM
Quote from: Fac PP#2 on September 15, 2021, 07:34:05 PM
Thank you Carlos

(https://i.pinimg.com/474x/6b/a1/60/6ba160fc7a30bee538ae6d2566b8eff1.jpg)

Chip, I'll spoil you too if you want to change your prediction. Maybe you wanna take the 52 now. After all, you're PP#1.

NOTE TO THE REST OF THE FORUM: NO MORE UPDATES AFTER NEXT SATURDAY THE 18TH. OK?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 15, 2021, 10:06:18 PM
That's THIS Saturday, imbecile.
Title: Thanks Chamaco
Post by: carlos123 on September 15, 2021, 10:14:48 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on September 15, 2021, 10:06:18 PM
That's THIS Saturday, imbecile.

Any insult that comes from you is a badge of honor 😊
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 16, 2021, 02:20:31 AM
I'll tentatively go with 44 W's.  East is going to be tougher.  Some players likely to come down some from career years. But pretty good continuity and depth should compensate.  Weakened our D.  Added some O.  We'll see if Thibs can still get a strong defensive effort/results from this year's squad.

A good deal might depend on the health of our 2 aging brittle PG's.  But I guess that's why you have two of 'em.  Hope Thibs doesn't run them into the ground.  Gotta be smart managing worn down knees.  The playoffs are the real season.  Can't scratch and claw for a few extra regular season wins only to have broken down PG's come playoff time.  Can Thibs incorporate time/body management?  NYK have enough young PG's to allow Kemba to rest on tail ends of B2B's, which Thibs has already poo-pooed.

Predictions can be modified until opening game tipoff.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 16, 2021, 02:21:13 AM
So Knix traded an all-star level talent (KZ) for Grimes and cap space.  Got it ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 16, 2021, 12:28:41 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 16, 2021, 02:21:13 AM
So Knix traded an all-star level talent (KZ) for Grimes and cap space.  Got it ...

Very Kiid of you. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 16, 2021, 02:01:09 PM
I'd like to see some Summer league to have a better feel for the season.

Fwiw, ESPN also picked 44 W's for the Knix and a 7th place finish.
Exactly as I have it.  Though hope we can outperform the Celts.
https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/32178449/nba-predictions-win-loss-records-brooklyn-nets-milwaukee-bucks-every-eastern-conference-team
Title: 48-34
Post by: chipstern on September 16, 2021, 02:14:47 PM
The East Is A Beast

Milwaukee, Brooklyn were already the pick of the litter and they both got better.

Miami, Philadelphia. 

Miami added some significant pieces.  Philly in a state of flux.     

New York, Atlanta, Boston, Indiana, Washington, Chicago, Charlotte all got better. 

I wouldn't sleep on Detroit or Orlando or Toronto.  Cleveland?  Meh. 

52-30 is doable, but would require everything going perfectly, and Thibs inculcating a more offensively oriented squad to raise their game on D in a manner commensurate with our departed PG & SF. 

44-38 is tenable as per the Prophet BoD, and reflects both the genius and the stubbornness that is Tom Thibodeau.  He got seriously punked by Nate McMillan in the playoffs.   

48-34 in my questionable estimation, reflects a sense of both the depth and talent of this squad, factoring in a degree of continuity in returning vets such as Randle, Rose, Burks, Noels and Gibson, the ongoing growth of R.J. Barrett, a reasonable expectation of an uptick of performance from Quickley and Toppin, and the anticipated contributions of Kemba and Evan. 

There are of course a number of wild cards.

Teams will be laying for the Knicks as they might not have been last season.  How might Thib's approach have evolved and has he learned from his mistakes?  INJURIES? 

WILD CARDS.  Mitchell Robinson.  Can his foot hold up?  If healthy and able to stay on the court, how might his extra mass and muscle factor in?  He has been playing at 240 and is now clocking in at 275.  His body has evolved.  How so his game and his competitive posture in advance of what promises to be a fierce competition with Noel for starters stature and minutes.  If deemed healthy, will the Knicks put his mind to rest and give him a new 2 + 1 contract commensurate with his aspirations and value to the team going forward?  How might Jericho Sims push Mitchell and Nerlens' envelope as the one guaranteed 2-way contract on our squad?     

WILD CARDS:  Quentin Grimes.  Miles McBride. Will they force Thibs to give them more than token minutes?  Kevin Knox.  Luca Vildoza.  Will they make a case for trust and responsibility and any meaningful MINUTES given how far down the depth chart they seem currently buried? 

WILD CARDS:  KEMBA WALKER.  KEMBA WALKER.  KEMBA WALKER.  DERRICK ROSE.  DERRICK ROSE.  DERRICK ROSE.  Snow on the roof.  How much steam in the pipes?  Will Thibs resist his urge to grind them into fucking flour? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 16, 2021, 04:11:32 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 16, 2021, 02:01:09 PM
I'd like to see some Summer league to have a better feel for the season.

Fwiw, ESPN also picked 44 W's for the Knix and a 7th place finish.
Exactly as I have it.  Though hope we can outperform the Celts.
https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/32178449/nba-predictions-win-loss-records-brooklyn-nets-milwaukee-bucks-every-eastern-conference-team

I think you mean preseason
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 16, 2021, 04:39:09 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 16, 2021, 04:11:32 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 16, 2021, 02:01:09 PM
I'd like to see some Summer league to have a better feel for the season.

Fwiw, ESPN also picked 44 W's for the Knix and a 7th place finish.
Exactly as I have it.  Though hope we can outperform the Celts.
https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/32178449/nba-predictions-win-loss-records-brooklyn-nets-milwaukee-bucks-every-eastern-conference-team

I think you mean preseason

PERHAPS. 

But Bo is on record as not having seen any of our summer league. 

And apparently Grimes with the Dallas #1, and Randle, Noel, Burks, Gibson, Walker, Rose, Quickley, McBride and Jericho deriving from the player, cap space and draft assets which we accrued and turned over and reconstituted and re-re-constituted from our trade of our recalcitrant all-star talent, in reconfiguring our team from [NEVER MIND THAT WE COPPED AN ALL STAR TALENT IN JULIUS RANDLE WITH THAT CAP SPACE] 29-53 during KP's final season, and 17-65 during his time on the IR, to 41-31 in 2020-21, is not to Bo's liking, and in no way, shape or form derives from the Knicks reaction to KP's teachable Ben Simmons Moment.

God gives you lemons, you make lemonade. 

God gives BoD lemons, and he holds out for cumquats.   
Title: Hawks
Post by: chipstern on September 16, 2021, 04:46:00 PM
Hawks signing Jahlil Okafor

Shams Charania: Free agent center Jahlil Okafor is signing a non-guaranteed deal with the Atlanta Hawks, sources tell @TheAthletic @Stadium.
Title: Some Things We Can Agree On
Post by: chipstern on September 16, 2021, 06:54:58 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 16, 2021, 02:01:09 PM
I'd like to see some Summer league to have a better feel for the season.

Fwiw, ESPN also picked 44 W's for the Knix and a 7th place finish.
Exactly as I have it.  Though hope we can outperform the Celts.
https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/32178449/nba-predictions-win-loss-records-brooklyn-nets-milwaukee-bucks-every-eastern-conference-team

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ib1tFrCoYDY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ib1tFrCoYDY)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJleP1d4UqI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJleP1d4UqI)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEDUnkG9OyY&t=3156s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEDUnkG9OyY&t=3156s)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 16, 2021, 07:20:31 PM
Fucking assholes

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/20/san-francisco-statues-ulysses-s-grant-junipero-serra-francis-scott-key
Title: Hurrah For Slavery
Post by: chipstern on September 16, 2021, 07:58:06 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 16, 2021, 07:20:31 PM
Fucking assholes

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/20/san-francisco-statues-ulysses-s-grant-junipero-serra-francis-scott-key

ONCE AGAIN, Kiid Has Outdone Himself.  Did you read the fucking article?  Spare us your white supremacist outrage. 

In 1814, Key was a slaveholding lawyer from an old Maryland plantation family, who thanks to a system of human bondage had grown rich and powerful.

When he wrote the poem that would, in 1931, become the national anthem and proclaim our nation

And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion,
A home and a country, should leave us no more?
Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps' pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave:
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave,
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 16, 2021, 09:14:39 PM
The article is over a year old.

It is good Kid can now cheer and support the toppling of statues of slave owning assholes.

Kid is either making progress or I am giving him too much credit and he is sinking further into the lead piped bullshit factory that consumes him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 16, 2021, 09:29:20 PM
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2946701-former-knicks-pg-frank-ntilikina-agrees-to-mavericks-contract (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2946701-former-knicks-pg-frank-ntilikina-agrees-to-mavericks-contract)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 16, 2021, 10:43:55 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 16, 2021, 07:20:31 PM
Fucking assholes

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/20/san-francisco-statues-ulysses-s-grant-junipero-serra-francis-scott-key

Sorry

Wrong forum.

Total disgrace in Golden Gate Park.

The Key space now shows sculptures of 350 blacks surrounding the "monument", representing the first slaves from 1619.  No problem with that whatsoever.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 16, 2021, 11:41:47 PM
The disgrace is wherever you are posting from and Austin and Tallahassee and Palm Beach.

Also you should stop fucking yourself long enough to find a country to emigrate to.

I know anything more than that is too much for you Kiid so I will leave it there.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 16, 2021, 11:47:29 PM
I hear Hungary is nice this time of year ...

Yeah, I'm looking forward to Pre-season, not Summer League.
Believe we play WASh a lot, which is a fun team to check in on this year.

Might need to finally pay for a VPN, as the gov't seems to be thwarting the free ones I've relied on.  As in I can't even get to theose youtube vids for now.
Title: ChamAAco
Post by: carlos123 on September 17, 2021, 12:40:38 AM
I think Chamaaco is just messing with you guys.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 17, 2021, 09:31:52 PM
Frank fully guaranteed by Mavs this year with team option for year two.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 18, 2021, 03:18:38 PM
Well, clearly DAL doesn't see Franc as a PG:
Luka is the functional PG.  Brunson a young quality backup.  Also Trey Burke and Tyrell Terry.
I assume Franc is mostly SG injury insurance, and available in case Sterling Borwn or Josh Green aren't up for the task.  Hard to see Franc getting minutes without injuries or those two underwhelming.
Tim Jr, Bullox and Funky-Smith will take up most of the wing minutes.
Though team could go smallball if/when KZ is enfeebled.

Aaron Gordon for $22M per?  Seems to be making a career out of having potential and almost ready for a break out.  Good energy guy, very athletic, not always making smart plays or focused enough. Can he impact winning?  Maybe it'll work with DEN not asking too much of him.  But then is he worth $22M ...



Title: Compare & Contrast
Post by: chipstern on September 18, 2021, 05:27:58 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 18, 2021, 03:18:38 PM
Well, clearly DAL doesn't see Franc as a PG:
Luka is the functional PG.  Brunson a young quality backup.  Also Trey Burke and Tyrell Terry.
I assume Franc is mostly SG injury insurance, and available in case Sterling Borwn or Josh Green aren't up for the task.  Hard to see Franc getting minutes without injuries or those two underwhelming.
Tim Jr, Bullox and Funky-Smith will take up most of the wing minutes.
Though team could go smallball if/when KZ is enfeebled.

Aaron Gordon for $22M per?  Seems to be making a career out of having potential and almost ready for a break out.  Good energy guy, very athletic, not always making smart plays or focused enough. Can he impact winning?  Maybe it'll work with DEN not asking too much of him.  But then is he worth $22M ...

Beauty Is In The Eye Of The Beholder

Aaron's stats don't jump out at you like Evan's. 

But look who he will teamed with in Denver?

Nikola Jokic, Michael Porter, Jaamal Murray

Gordon and Jeff Green give them depth at SF/PF. 

Gordon just turned 26.   

Evan Fournier   $17,142,857   $18,000,000   $18,857,143   $19,000,000 [Team Option]

Julius Randle   $21,780,000   $26,136,000   $28,226,880   $30,317,760   $32,408,640 [Player Option]

As for the Dallas Half Knicks?

Porzingis
Bullock
Hardaway
Ntilikina
Burke
Harper [Jared]

Yes, Dallas is pretty deep at PG/SG. 

However, not so much at the wing, where Frank could spell Bullock at SF. 

We know about Bullock's D, and his catch and shoot pedigree on the Knicks, where while I am sure we wanted to make Reggie an offer, while we were sealing the deal on Fournier, who is more proactive in creating his own offense at SF, Bullock went to Dallas, where camping out in his accustomed corner Toll Booth as Doncic breaks down the defense, Reggie could be good for 15-18 a night easy.  And if Frank gets 15-18 minutes a night, for defensive matchups, let's recall that Frank in limited minutes with the Knicks hit 23-48 3-Pointers, mostly from that corner spot, which is a .479% clip over less than ten minutes a night over 33 games. 

Dallas does not have much depth at Wing/Small Forward.  In the era of Small Ball/Positionless Hoops, Frank will have a chance to remake himself, in what promises to be three-four guard sets. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 19, 2021, 12:24:38 AM
Tim Jr., Bullocks and Funky-Smith are all combo wings and should eat up most/all the SG/SF minutes.  Since Luka usually guards the least threatening F/SG, there could be minutes for Franc guarding the other team's PG, especially if the team has a quick dynamic backup PG.   Penetrating PG's could give DAL trouble if they task Tim/Reg/Dorian with trying to stick them.  You don't want Tim, 2nd leading scorer, getting in foul trouble that way, as happened some last year.  Brunson is game but still somewhat green at that end. 

So I've revised, Franc could come in as a specialist defensively at PG.  And on O, he has to be better to launch when open, or move the ball crisply.  We all knew Franc's future at PG was highly questionable when he would make grade school telegraphed cross-court passes.  Along with barely able to bring the ball upcourt under pressure, and routinely giving the ball up 35' out.  Combined with the lack of shooting/scoring, and Franc is a marginal NBA player.  Hope he can figure it out and stick around -- he has improved his shot -- but next stop might be Marseilles.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 19, 2021, 11:55:52 AM
Chip sniffing the glue again (this time re. Ntlikina and Bullock

Reg won't get the shots.  Frank won't get the minutes
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 19, 2021, 12:55:48 PM
Well, clearly DAL doesn't see Franc as a PG:
Luka is the functional PG.  Brunson a young quality backup.  Also Trey Burke and Tyrell Terry.

Not at al certain that T Terry factors in one bit - and I dont see Burke there.  But so many games will see Luka+Brunson surpass 48 minutes total that there wont BE any 3rd PG run.

Frank may be it in name only, not actual play.
Title: chamAAco v chamAco
Post by: carlos123 on September 19, 2021, 01:53:45 PM
Quote from: chamAAcocartero8 on September 19, 2021, 11:55:52 AM
Chip sniffing the glue again (this time re. Ntlikina and Bullock

Reg won't get the shots.  Frank won't get the minutes

Quote from: chamAcocartero8 on September 19, 2021, 12:55:48 PM
Not at al certain that T Terry factors in one bit - and I dont see Burke there.

I like it when ChamAco debates ChamAAco 😜🤩🤪
Title: Re: chamAAco v chamAco
Post by: chipstern on September 19, 2021, 02:03:34 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on September 19, 2021, 01:53:45 PM
Quote from: chamAAcocartero8 on September 19, 2021, 11:55:52 AM
Chip sniffing the glue again (this time re. Ntlikina and Bullock

Reg won't get the shots.  Frank won't get the minutes

Quote from: chamAcocartero8 on September 19, 2021, 12:55:48 PM
Not at al certain that T Terry factors in one bit - and I dont see Burke there.

I like it when ChamAco debates ChamAAco 😜🤩🤪

Ah, the simple pleasures.   
Title: Simple Pleasures
Post by: carlos123 on September 19, 2021, 04:42:10 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 19, 2021, 02:03:34 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on September 19, 2021, 01:53:45 PM
Quote from: chamAAcocartero8 on September 19, 2021, 11:55:52 AM
Chip sniffing the glue again (this time re. Ntlikina and Bullock

Reg won't get the shots.  Frank won't get the minutes

Quote from: chamAcocartero8 on September 19, 2021, 12:55:48 PM
Not at al certain that T Terry factors in one bit - and I dont see Burke there.

I like it when ChamAco debates ChamAAco 😜🤩🤪

Ah, the simple pleasures.   

Another simple pleasure: Trump letting Chamaco sniff his ass.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 20, 2021, 03:37:34 AM
One of many Simmons rumours/made-up trades has ATL cashing in their depth cache for Big Ben.  Gallo, Cam Reddish and Huerter for Simmons.

Gives PHI two shooters and an athletic wildcard wing to put around Embiid.
ATL gets an all-world defender who doesn't need shots.  Which is a nice complement to Ice Trae.  Upgrade their starting 5.

If DeAndre Hunter and Bogdanovich are healthy, Reddish is expendable.  While Jalen Johnson is a similar to Reddish wildcard wing talent. Simmons fills in everywhere.  I guess nominally Simmons starts at SF, with Hunter on the bench.  Simmons would guard PG a fair amount.

PHI gets spacing/shooting from Gallo and Huerter.  Gallo a vet and the definition of a stretch 4,  Okay so maybe he's overpaid, injury prone and often a bit casual.   Only issues: Tobias was best as a 4 last year.  And who runs PG for PHI? The lack of a PG is the problem here.  While Reddish has all-star potential, for now he's a bit of a wild man.

I like this trade a lot.  Think the lack of aPG for PHI dooms it.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 20, 2021, 10:12:35 AM
ATL nearly 3 deep at every position:

PG  Trae Young  - Delon Wright      
SG  Bogdanovic  - Cam Reddish -  Lou Williams
SF  De'A Hunter - Kevin Huerter -  Jalen Johnson
PF  John Collins   - Danilo Gallinari - Solomon Hill   
C   Clint Capela  - Onyeka Okongwu - Gorgui Dieng

They'd be swapping 3 backups for an all-star level starter.

PG  Trae - Delon
SG  Bogdan - Lou Will - Jalen Johnson
SF  Simmons - DeAndre Hunt
PF  Collins - Sol Hill
C   Capela - Okongwu - Dieng

Simmons can back up at SG and PF, so don't have to rely on aging vets Lou Will or Sol Hill too much.  Okongwu also can play PF.
Title: Phantasy Island
Post by: chipstern on September 20, 2021, 02:37:24 PM
Bo.

Interesting Phantasy.

Only thing is, Atlanta is way to smart and way too stacked to do it. 

At 6'8" Hunter is a terrific defender.  Are you really down shifting him into a backup.  He was their starting SF before he got hurt. 

At 6'8", Reddish also made a compelling case for himself as a wing defender during the playoffs. 

As for Gallinari at 6'10, not quite the overpaid mediocrity you portray him as.  Danilo sure burned our ass in the playoffs and gave the Hawks compelling depth at PF behind Collins.  Along with Hunter and Reddish he gives the Hawks serious depth and coverage at 3 and the 4, depending on matchups.  And they just drafted another big 6'8" wing in the Johnson kid from Duke, who projects as a work in progress at the 2 & 3. 

Meanwhile, Hawks have Bogdonavich and Huerter at SG [and SF] depending on matchups.  Some sort of one-two punch, and you propose off loading Huerter? 

Huerter is a confident shooter either off of the catch and shoot, or creating his own shot.  So let's cash him in on a lousy shooter, who is most effective with the ball in his hands creating in transition, either going to the rack or creating for others. 

Kind of creates a conflict with Trae Young, who as we might have noticed, IS THE TEAM LEADER. 

So by all means let's introduce another ball dominant facilitator in Simmons, who really doesn't offer much playing off the ball on offense. 

And as for PG depth, you seem to pooh pooh the contributions of Lou Williams, which I thought curious.  And the Hawks just drafted Auburn PG Sharife Cooper. 

Simmons is an all star caliber defender.  So you're going to slot him ahead of Hunter and Bogdonavich? 

Also, does Atlanta really need to bring in an emotional X-Factor such as Simmons to mess with their team chemistry and exceptional depth?  Does this make them significantly better? 

As they currently stand, the Hawks are much better than their 41-31 record suggests. 

And is it worth mentioning that Simmons' contract is an albatross?  His contract calls for him to pocket ONE HALF OH HIS YEARLY SALARY as of October 1 of each calendar year. 

I'm not feeling it, dude. 
Title: Addendum
Post by: chipstern on September 20, 2021, 03:03:26 PM
Never mind that Philly likely view the Atlanta OFFER as a little light in the loafers. 

Reddish and Gallinari as SFs beside Tobias Harris.  Right?  Makes some sense. 

Huerter obviously a nice addition as a SG-SF.  Still, the  Sixers not only still have Danny Green at SF-SG?  But Shake Milton and Matisse Thybulle and Seth Curry and Furkan Korkmaz at SG. 

Tyrese Maxey is ready to take on more PG minutes but both he and Philly first rounder Jaden Springer projects as a combo guards a la our own IQ. 

So I don't know.  Don't really see how this trade really benefits the Sixers, even though the numbers add up.  And while you have structured this Phantasy based on what you perceive as Hawks redundancies, those redundancies are a year older, a year wiser, with playoff experience under their belt, and a team spirit heading into the new year.  This is a deep, dangerous Hawks team.  Deep, dangerous AND YOUNG. 

PS: Oh, and do we really see Daryl Morey accepting spare parts and NO DRAFT CAPITAL. 

Anyway, Bo, interesting scenario on a dull no news day in advance of opening day of training camp, now barely a week away. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 20, 2021, 03:44:06 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 20, 2021, 03:37:34 AM
One of many Simmons rumours/made-up trades has ATL cashing in their depth cache for Big Ben.  Gallo, Cam Reddish and Huerter for Simmons.

Gives PHI two shooters and an athletic wildcard wing to put around Embiid.
ATL gets an all-world defender who doesn't need shots.  Which is a nice complement to Ice Trae.  Upgrade their starting 5.

If DeAndre Hunter and Bogdanovich are healthy, Reddish is expendable.  While Jalen Johnson is a similar to Reddish wildcard wing talent. Simmons fills in everywhere.  I guess nominally Simmons starts at SF, with Hunter on the bench.  Simmons would guard PG a fair amount.

PHI gets spacing/shooting from Gallo and Huerter.  Gallo a vet and the definition of a stretch 4,  Okay so maybe he's overpaid, injury prone and often a bit casual.   Only issues: Tobias was best as a 4 last year.  And who runs PG for PHI? The lack of a PG is the problem here.  While Reddish has all-star potential, for now he's a bit of a wild man.

I like this trade a lot.  Think the lack of aPG for PHI dooms it.

Good post.

The opposite of how it seems most fans feel about OUR youth in NY, that we need to build with it, not use it in deals.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 20, 2021, 03:45:43 PM
Chip would have a great point re:  the deal being light had he pointed out you didnt have draft capital in there
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 20, 2021, 03:47:29 PM
Chip is also wondering where you would "slot" Simmons in ATL's lineup

Too funny.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 20, 2021, 03:54:31 PM
Gallo is pretty much strictly a PF at this point.
And as I noted, Tobias killed as a PF, and was closer to average as an SF.
That and the lack of a PG for PHI probably derails such a deal.
And yes, Gallo can still bring it at times.

LouW is perhaps the worst defender in the League nowadays.
And Trae isn't much better.  That and Lou being much more up and down as a scorer, makes it increasingly hard to play him.  You can bring LouW in and see if he's hot that night.  But he tends to give back as much as he gets.  Lou, by his own admission, doesn't really work on his game.  He says he stays away from the young players so they don't pick up his bad partying habits.

I'm bullish on DeA Hunter but he's only played one NBA season's worth of games.  And coming off a knee injury.  I'd think he's better as a backup SF for now.  Still plenty to learn, including staying out of foul trouble.  And if he plays well, Simmons shifts to other roles and you can still play Hunter 25 mins a night if deserved.

ATL depth is great, but means that Jalen Johnson, Okongwu and likely Reddish are underutilized.  And don't get to develop in NBA games.  With vets Sol Hill and LouW likely having trouble getting court time as well.  Too many players not getting in games can make for tension and dissension.  If they believe that Hunter and Bogdan can stay healthy, I'd make the trade. 

Trae - Bogs - Hunter - Collins can all make 3's.  Should be enough shooting.  One issue is whether you can play Capela and Simmons together ... 
Key for me, is Simmons ability to play many positions and to guard PG's.  Mid-4Q of a close game, and suddenly you deploy 6'10" athletic Simmons to smother the opposing PG.  That's a key weakness for ATL right now. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 20, 2021, 04:05:21 PM
I have zero problem with underutilization.  ATL is trying to get to an EC Final.

Reddish was in trade talks - may not be long for this team, Simmons or no.  Had a glimmer late last year, that's it.

Okongwu has extreme situational value and will be USED, though the minutes may not scream it.  May be a starter in time for someone.

J Johnson a wild card - will get his time IN time.  Push guys in the meantime - and who knows - could break out in a Herro way, putting other butts on the pine (long shot for '21-'22).  If he doesnt play nothing is lost
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on September 20, 2021, 04:08:34 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on September 20, 2021, 03:47:29 PM
Chip is also wondering where you would "slot" Simmons in ATL's lineup

Too funny.

Legit issue. Atlanta's magic is guys like Huerter, Hunter, Gallo, etc just killing you when you focused down on Trae. You got Capela & Simmons in the same lineup and suddenly things aren't so dangerous. Ben's woes are very real and not gonna disappear with a change of scenery. He's got to slot into the right fit. I actually like such a trade a lot for Philly, particularly with a Cooper or picks tossed in.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 20, 2021, 04:52:59 PM
Have to wonder if Lester knows what Ben Simmons career FG percentage is.

Should ATL deal for him?  Sure - they should have interest.

Can they without giving up a couple of picks in addition to talent?  No.

Would Simmons be happy reporting to Atlanta?  Hell no.

Would that hold up a deal?  Maybe.

WAITING for the NYK talk re:  Simmons.  Would be so perfect.
Title: Ben Simmons [Some Perspective]
Post by: chipstern on September 20, 2021, 08:30:05 PM
So, Ben would be so perfect on the Knicks, huh? 

Ben's first four years in the league, his total FT makes and attempts were as follows:

191-341
257-428
185-298
176-287

Not exactly DRIVEN is he...has gone backwards.

By contrast, someone who was driven? 

Jerry West's First Four?

331-497
712-926
371-477
584-702

So even for the great Jerry West, it took a while for him to get his FT shooting to a top tier level.  BUT HE WORKED ON HIS GAME AND HIS CONFIDENCE, and was driven to keep getting better.

By 1965-66, his sixth year in the league, Jerry West converted 840-977, for a .860%, so HE GOT BETTER EVERY YEAR.  And Jerry West was a great defensive player. 

To put that into perspective, Jerry West [840] converted more FTs in one season, than Ben Simmons has made in four seasons [809]. 

Oscar Robertson, in his best season?  In 1963-64, he averaged 31.4 points, 11.0 rebounds and 9.9 assists.  He converted 800-938 FTs for an .853%. 

In the open court, getting to the rack in transition, making plays for his team mates, Ben Simmons is a significant talent.  That he has not advanced his game in other ways, does not speak well of him as someone you trade your entire fucking team for.  And makes him a significant liability come the final five minutes of a close game. 

LeBron.  Giannis.  Steph.  KD.  They are capable of carrying their team. 

Sorry.  But Gentle Ben has NO Johnson. 
Title: home is where the heart is!
Post by: lesterluv on September 20, 2021, 09:00:02 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on September 20, 2021, 04:52:59 PM
Have to wonder if Lester knows what Ben Simmons career FG percentage is.

Have to wonder if Kiid knows where Clint Capela lives.  ;)

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/ben-simmons-2021-playoffs-shot-chart (https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/ben-simmons-2021-playoffs-shot-chart)

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/clint-capela-2021-playoffs-shot-chart (https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/clint-capela-2021-playoffs-shot-chart)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 20, 2021, 09:18:34 PM
I think Ben has been steady across 4 years

Ball needing to be fed to Embiid has changed his game a bit

Will be better on another team, I think.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 21, 2021, 02:03:09 AM
The Capela-Simmons pairing would be an issue.  You could pull Simmons early (say 5 min mark) and then reinsert him when it's time for a Capela blow (8 minute mark), trying to maximize having just one of them out there at a time.  And if a team plays smallball to pull Capela out to the perimeter, you can swap in Simmons at C.  Capela not a big minute fella anyway.  I like Simmons ability to cover ATL's primary weakness, guarding PG's, while providing rim protection help when not on the PG.  Collins is still learning to help/defend at the rim.  That's a Simmons specialty.

Fun trade, but I think it just leaves PHi too exposed at PG and with PF redundancy.
For ATL, I really like adding an all-world defender to Trae's team.  I'd just want to make sure the remaining wings are healthy, before shipping out the depth.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 21, 2021, 07:56:12 AM
Would be cool if Ben opened up his "I will gladly play for this team" list.  Would make a deal that much easier, allow teams including NY to formulate optimal scenarios.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 21, 2021, 08:03:42 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on September 20, 2021, 04:08:34 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on September 20, 2021, 03:47:29 PM
Chip is also wondering where you would "slot" Simmons in ATL's lineup

Too funny.

Legit issue. Atlanta's magic is guys like Huerter, Hunter, Gallo, etc just killing you when you focused down on Trae. You got Capela & Simmons in the same lineup and suddenly things aren't so dangerous. Ben's woes are very real and not gonna disappear with a change of scenery. He's got to slot into the right fit. I actually like such a trade a lot for Philly, particularly with a Cooper or picks tossed in.

Simmons FINDS. guys.  Make no mistake.Would they employ some small ball 5 to get another shooter (4) out there at times?  Maybe.

ATL not likely getting done.  We can move on.  How much is HOU offering with Wall? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 21, 2021, 09:10:53 AM
Some NBA headlines, courtesy of HoopsHype

DANGELO RUSSELL looking great in workouts

HALIBURTON and FOX pack on the muscle

NBA EXECS expect breakout year for GARLAND

KELDON JOHNSON has big Spurs opportunity to blossom

MYLES TURNER in best shape of career, drops from 14.5 to 8% body fat over offseason

And a nice message to Knick fans from FRANK

You welcomed a kid who just left home in order to pursue his dreams and goals, and to continuously grow. I could not ask for more. I would like to thank the entire franchise, the coaches, players, all members of training and medical staff and all the people who work hard every day for the success of this organization over the years. Last but not least, to all the Knicks fans around the world Thank you ! The support has been amazing from day 1. Wins and losses, highs and lows, we have all seen one thing for sure, and that is that the passion and the love for basketball stays unbeaten through it all. I am leaving now to open a new chapter in my journey, forever grateful for the opportunity.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on September 21, 2021, 12:23:30 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on September 20, 2021, 09:18:34 PM
I think Ben has been steady across 4 years


Stunning how steady years 1-4.
Rare to see such a player show no growth in any area from the moment he comes into the league.
The per 36 completely flatlined, well actually, FGA, boards, assists...all down.
Title: FUCK BEN SIMMONS
Post by: chipstern on September 21, 2021, 01:57:08 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on September 21, 2021, 12:23:30 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on September 20, 2021, 09:18:34 PM
I think Ben has been steady across 4 years


Stunning how steady years 1-4.
Rare to see such a player show no growth in any area from the moment he comes into the league.
The per 36 completely flatlined, well actually, FGA, boards, assists...all down.

This fascination with Ben Simmons is extraordinary. Even so canny a set of Trader Vics as Facil and BoD, literally salivate at the notion of giving away substantial portions of one's roster and draft assets to bring this petulant pup in to the fold, be it for the Knicks or some divisional rival.   

Does what he accomplishes exceptionally well, and do his mouth watering physical attributes, out weigh what he does poorly and which seem to in no way motivate him to improve. 

Mostly for me, ignorant as I clearly appear to be, it comes down to CHARACTER.  And LEADERSHIP. 

Look at someone like the Rockets Jaamal Murray.  Who has gotten better EVERY SEASON, and who rises to the challenge of the biggest games. 

Ben Simmons Contract? 

$33,003,936   $35,448,672   $37,893,408   $40,338,144

As of October 1st, the Sixers [and whomever else is lucky enough to enlist this spoiled little creep] are contractually bound to give him ONE HALF OF ENTIRE YEARLY SALARY out front.  That's roughly what the Knics are paying Evan Fournier for the first year of his contract.  It's as if Phil Jackson crafted Gentle Ben's max deal, with an eye towards handcuffing his own team.

I readily admit that everyone else is right and I am wrong in my assessment of Ben Simmons as a talent, and that compelling arguments can be made for papering over his hoops failings.  He brings THAT MUCH TO THE TABLE. 

He also brings along a brutal contract and a woeful lack of maturity. 

I would rather have Derrick and Kemba in matching blue and orange wheelchairs, that Ben on a golden platter. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 21, 2021, 02:00:36 PM
Its almost as if Simmons banged CStern's girlfriend
Title: B Simmons/ J Murray
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 21, 2021, 02:08:07 PM
slightly different players, I would say

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?player_id2=simmobe01&player_id1=murraja01&sum=0&request=1

but both excellent players

Excellent values?  Come on, man - this is the NBA

What is important in this league is a star becoming available.  And you have to be in the mix to add a guy when that happens,
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 21, 2021, 03:22:49 PM
Simmons is an elite defender and very versatile on both ends. 
Likely a Top 5 defender.  2nd in DPOY last year.

Rudy Gobert makes $2M more per year than Simmons (plus has an extra final year at $46M).
I don't recall Gobert having a jump shot.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 21, 2021, 04:03:03 PM
Great news

https://twitter.com/cedceballos/status/1440314000164605955?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1440314000164605955%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fhoopshype.com%2Frumors%2F
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 21, 2021, 04:04:24 PM
Simmons is an elite defender and very versatile on both ends.
Likely a Top 5 defender.  2nd in DPOY last year.

Yes.  This = GAME CHANGER

Thus why Philly is not about to give him up on the cheap.

But he is no J Murray - heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 21, 2021, 04:39:31 PM
Sometimes real good teams lose a good talent

RAPTORS sign Reggie Perry

Meanwhile Nets gave begun talks with Harden and Irving on extensions.  Nice.
Title: Mr. heh (and lol) strikes again
Post by: carlos123 on September 21, 2021, 09:56:59 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on September 21, 2021, 04:04:24 PM
But he is no J Murray - heh

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLWinbC-wbY9Tbfw9_yRvBXj-dN30vUTGj2DxZIFw7YV916uz1J7JesPT2FKQPXymW_gyC8DteIzISKTnMVGvwUF1p9VXHGZfFtodTRdvwzXUeEi_3tRGWDhzbMLXZZe0jz3JYRuTwdW7W-j1SWBvZE6=w368-h570-no?authuser=0)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on September 22, 2021, 10:01:26 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 21, 2021, 03:22:49 PM

I don't recall Gobert having a jump shot.

rofl...

I don't recall Gobert passing up a wide open dunk cause he was terrified of being sent to the line and costing his team a playoff victory.

I don't recall Gobert refusing to take a FGA attempt in four consecutive playoff game fourth quarters

this MF'er BEN is truly ELEEET

(if i'm going to pay a versatile defensive eleeeet who is afraid to shoot I'd rather give it to French Frank at 1.5 mil lol...have 38.5 mil left over for snacks!)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 22, 2021, 10:59:53 AM
Frank isnt an elite defender
Title: This M'Fer you luv is AFRAID TO SHOOT! IN THE F'N NBA!
Post by: lesterluv on September 22, 2021, 11:38:48 AM
lol, jk, kind of, but ya get the point! (defends four positions with aplomb, DURING A SINGLE POSSESSION, pretty f'n close to eleeeeeeet, can count on my 12 fingers the number of pro's with the desire or court awareness to even try, don't make me bring the videotape)

** and i really would rather have Frank at 1.5 + RJ + Quickly + Mitch + Fournier + 4 first round picks + whoever else you throw into the mix to make the inevitable proposed Ben-to-the-Knicks trade package work..

**** the BEN-HEAD is clearly cracked, and once it's cracked ya never can tell where it all ends up, especially once you get Kardashians in the mix! Would not surprise me at all to have some kind of Lamar Odom situation on tap and our 40 Million Dollar Man ends up comatose in a skanky brothel.

40 Million Bucks for a guy who makes Frankie Smokes seem fresh, fly, wild and BOLD. As Don King says, "Only in America!"

really, when you see m'fer's with skillz like those, not get better at all, and start, in fact, to downslide, the next step is generally FURTHER DETERIORATION. History shows again and again how nature points out the folly of men, I'll keep the 40 million bucks, thanks, whichever way it goes!
Title: Re: This M'Fer you luv is AFRAID TO SHOOT! IN THE F'N NBA!
Post by: chipstern on September 22, 2021, 01:41:00 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on September 22, 2021, 11:38:48 AM
lol, jk, kind of, but ya get the point! (defends four positions with aplomb, DURING A SINGLE POSSESSION, pretty f'n close to eleeeeeeet, can count on my 12 fingers the number of pro's with the desire or court awareness to even try, don't make me bring the videotape)

** and i really would rather have Frank at 1.5 + RJ + Quickly + Mitch + Fournier + 4 first round picks + whoever else you throw into the mix to make the inevitable proposed Ben-to-the-Knicks trade package work..

**** the BEN-HEAD is clearly cracked, and once it's cracked ya never can tell where it all ends up, especially once you get Kardashians in the mix! Would not surprise me at all to have some kind of Lamar Odom situation on tap and our 40 Million Dollar Man ends up comatose in a skanky brothel.

40 Million Bucks for a guy who makes Frankie Smokes seem fresh, fly, wild and BOLD. As Don King says, "Only in America!"

really, when you see m'fer's with skillz like those, not get better at all, and start, in fact, to downslide, the next step is generally FURTHER DETERIORATION. History shows again and again how nature points out the folly of men, I'll keep the 40 million bucks, thanks, whichever way it goes!

Giannis Antetokounmpo

Same freakish size/skill proportions.  Gets better every year.  Put his team on his back in the playoffs.  A charismatic LEADER. 

Again, THAT'S who you give $33-40,000,000 to. 

Not to some sulky child who would rather have a Kardashian Sister sit on his face, than perfect a 12-15 foot jumper and work on his FTs. 

PS: Giannis goes to the FT line roughly 600 times a season.  Ben in the nabe of 300, though injuries played a part the past two seasons. 

PPS: Thank God training camp is just around the corner.  My LAST post on this petulant pup. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 22, 2021, 02:18:43 PM
3-5   W-L series

22-22   W-L games



That is GIANNIS - up til this year - age 19-25 - SEVEN seasons, 1 conference finals


And this year his playoff free throw percentage was actually LOWER than across the other seven combined.


Yes, he is great, of course.  And now, finally a champion.  And with his original team, who did not give up on him when he lost game 7 at home or lose 4 straight after a 2-0 lead.

Simmons is being treated awfully - by an awful coach and a feed-frenzy press.  I think he will survive - but no Giannis story to be had - Doc made sure of it.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 22, 2021, 03:09:35 PM
THEO PINSON to Boston

CHASSON RANDLE to Phoenix

Title: Re: This M'Fer you luv is AFRAID TO SHOOT! IN THE F'N NBA!
Post by: lesterluv on September 23, 2021, 10:48:11 AM
Quote from: chipstern on September 22, 2021, 01:41:00 PM

PPS: Thank God training camp is just around the corner.  My LAST post on this petulant pup.

I too have said my piece and will speak no more on Ben, may he thrive and prosper wherever he ends up...

***which won't be the Garden
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 23, 2021, 11:54:19 AM
Re Ben

I don't blame him for being pissed. He got thrown under the bus by Doc and Embiid.

There's gotta be a whole lotta making up to heal his wounds.

But there is no escaping the inescapable, he disappeared in the play-offs.

Maybe he was under the team bus talking to the team shrink.

Great talent, but he's gotta address his shooting phobia which he turned into a mountain of a problem.

You can't have a guy who makes close to $40MM a year be afraid to shoot. 

And for the next 4 years.

He might be worth trading for and giving up decent value for if it was a 1 year deal, but 4 years at close to $40MM per, can screw-up a team.

I can't see giving player(s) AND the basket of 1s that Philly wanted for a 4-year hi-risk gamble.

He's their problem, and unless he's available at a big discount, I'd let Philly twist in wind with Ben.

Title: Thank God For Training Camp [The Brad Dressler Effect]
Post by: chipstern on September 23, 2021, 01:04:09 PM
Stefan Bondy, beat writer from the NY DAILY NEWS no less, proposed a trade...on TWITTER...

"Julius Randle & RJ Barrett for Karl Anthony-Towns.  Who says no?"

Not getting enough attention at home, Stefan? 
Title: Meanwhile...
Post by: chipstern on September 23, 2021, 01:09:05 PM
Yossi Gozlan: Robinson is currently eligible for an extension worth up to $55.6 million over four years. Since the Knicks exercised his team option for this season, he will become an unrestricted free agent in 2022. This could incentivize them to extend him before the end of the season. A two-year deal that aligns his contract with the rest of the core could make sense.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 23, 2021, 01:35:44 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on September 23, 2021, 11:54:19 AM
Re Ben

I don't blame him for being pissed. He got thrown under the bus by Doc and Embiid.

There's gotta be a whole lotta making up to heal his wounds.

But there is no escaping the inescapable, he disappeared in the play-offs.

Maybe he was under the team bus talking to the team shrink.

Great talent, but he's gotta address his shooting phobia which he turned into a mountain of a problem.

You can't have a guy who makes close to $40MM a year be afraid to shoot. 

And for the next 4 years.

He might be worth trading for and giving up decent value for if it was a 1 year deal, but 4 years at close to $40MM per, can screw-up a team.

I can't see giving player(s) AND the basket of 1s that Philly wanted for a 4-year hi-risk gamble.

He's their problem, and unless he's available at a big discount, I'd let Philly twist in wind with Ben.

Re  Ben and the playoff loss

Sure - he played sub par

But if you watch the final games there were plays NOT MADE by others in Sixer unis at key times.
Title: Re: Thank God For Training Camp [The Brad Dressler Effect]
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 23, 2021, 04:17:13 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 23, 2021, 01:04:09 PM
Stefan Bondy, beat writer from the NY DAILY NEWS no less, proposed a trade...on TWITTER...

"Julius Randle & RJ Barrett for Karl Anthony-Towns.  Who says no?"

Not getting enough attention at home, Stefan?

Wolves
Title: Re: Thank God For Training Camp [The Brad Dressler Effect]
Post by: carlos123 on September 23, 2021, 09:57:36 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on September 23, 2021, 04:17:13 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 23, 2021, 01:04:09 PM
Stefan Bondy, beat writer from the NY DAILY NEWS no less, proposed a trade...on TWITTER...

"Julius Randle & RJ Barrett for Karl Anthony-Towns.  Who says no?"

Not getting enough attention at home, Stefan?

Wolves

Not getting enough attention at home, Stefan Chamaco?
Title: well if you're just gonna keep on keeping on
Post by: lesterluv on September 23, 2021, 11:41:40 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on September 23, 2021, 01:35:44 PM

Re  Ben and the playoff loss

Sure - he played sub par


This was not sub par.
Sub par was Julius' series against the Hawks.

This was a HISTORIC, ALL-TIME cowardly catastrophe.
The m'fer became the worst free throw shooter in the entire entirety of NBA playoff history.
The m'fer didn't take a 4th quarter shot in 5 of 7 games.

Not one......single....shot.

lol....subpar my fat ass, lol, lol, lol


*** threw Ben under a bus? lmao..they were way too polite, wtf you gonna say about that *ish when asked

Ben's FGA per 100 possessions OR per 36 minutes in these playoffs? Lower than Frank "afraid to shoot" Ntilikina's at any time in his career, rofl...subpar, you wanna call that subpar?

His refusal to even attempt to play basketball cost the Sixers a spot in the ECF, it's that simple.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 24, 2021, 08:37:04 AM
Teammates failed in key spots

Dont make me pull up the game log

And dont deny Doc's plan was to run things through Joel.  He CASTRATED his PG then destroyed him (or attempted to).  Now Rivers wants to keep his NBA head man job so he is trying to rescue Simmons for the Sixers.

Dude - here's a fucking clue - apologize publicly.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on September 24, 2021, 09:40:55 AM
Dont make me pull up the game log
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 24, 2021, 09:53:38 AM
https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/pbp/202106140ATL.html#q4

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/pbp/202106200PHI.html

I particularly love when Rivers removed Simmons for the final minute of Game 7, down 4 with the ball.
Title: that cowardly beyatch...simply unplayable I guess!
Post by: lesterluv on September 24, 2021, 10:45:09 AM
lol, lol, lol
keep digging that hol
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 24, 2021, 11:24:24 AM
I heard that KD killed a prospective Simmons/KI trade.

I could see a long shot-shy Simmons playing with and feeding Durant and Harden and fitting in with his passing and D and paint-game

but KD said NFW, and had KI's back.

I think he knew that Embiid would kill KI if he tried to pull his shit in Philly.

Title: Re: Thank God For Training Camp [The Brad Dressler Effect]
Post by: bodiddley on September 24, 2021, 11:34:56 AM
Quote from: chipstern on September 23, 2021, 01:04:09 PM
"Julius Randle & RJ Barrett for Karl Anthony-Towns.  Who says no?"

That's one of those perfect trades ... where neither team would do it.

Thibs and Towns didn't exactly get along well in Minn.
And Thibs couldn't get KAT to play D then.

Other issues:
- bail on Randle once he starts performing at a high level, only to start over trying to get KAT to impact Winning?
- lose a 2-way yute, your 2nd best player?
- Can KAT play next to Mitch?

All seems like a losing play for NYK.

Now if MINN wanted Randle and Noel for KAT, I'd have to pause.
Still think it's a bad idea for the reasons above -- mainly: Why trade Randle? -- but from a raw talent perspective, I'd at least be intrigued.  Maybe if the Knix felt ObiT was ready to be a big contributor and Mitch healthy/durable(?)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 24, 2021, 01:05:25 PM
I heard that KD killed a prospective Simmons/KI trade.


What dive Bah-stin bah did you hear it in?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 24, 2021, 01:18:38 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on September 24, 2021, 01:05:25 PM
I heard that KD killed a prospective Simmons/KI trade.


What dive Bah-stin bah did you hear it in?

Google it.

I think the original source was Stephen A.

edit for link

https://news.yahoo.com/stephen-smith-kevin-durant-blocking-163647719.html (https://news.yahoo.com/stephen-smith-kevin-durant-blocking-163647719.html)



"Although there is so much drama revolving around where Simmons will end up, the Nets have now been linked to a potential blockbuster trade at least according to Stephen A. Smith.

Smith said on ESPN


For some Elba reason I can't post the entire quote. So go to the link.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 24, 2021, 01:22:07 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on September 24, 2021, 01:05:25 PM
I heard that KD killed a prospective Simmons/KI trade.

That's interesting to me, because a significant problem for PHI is they really need to get back a starting-level PG in a Simmons trade (or give up a year of competing, and kick the problem down the road).

So trying to nab Kyrie makes sense.

It's not going to be easy for PHI to pull off:

I guess something like Siakim + Dragic + ____ could cover.
Dragic and Maxey could be an adequate platoon.

KZ + Brunson for Simmons
Maybe a weird fit, as the idea has been to get shooters around Luka.  But an elite defender, instead of gimpy KZ.  Take some ballhandling load off Luka so he can perform in the 4Q.
Gets PHI a PG and a shooter for Embiid.

And can toss in picks or another player to balance things up.
Title: Elba GLITCH
Post by: chipstern on September 24, 2021, 02:06:02 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on September 24, 2021, 01:18:38 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on September 24, 2021, 01:05:25 PM
I heard that KD killed a prospective Simmons/KI trade.


What dive Bah-stin bah did you hear it in?

Google it.

I think the original source was Stephen A.

edit for link

https://news.yahoo.com/stephen-smith-kevin-durant-blocking-163647719.html (https://news.yahoo.com/stephen-smith-kevin-durant-blocking-163647719.html)



"Although there is so much drama revolving around where Simmons will end up, the Nets have now been linked to a potential blockbuster trade at least according to Stephen A. Smith.

Smith said on ESPN


For some Elba reason I can't post the entire quote. So go to the link.




That's curious, BANK. 

I've had the exact same problem doing cut and pastes. 

Weird
Title: Cleveland & Philly
Post by: chipstern on September 24, 2021, 02:11:26 PM
Love, Sexton, Okoro + Draft Capital

for

Simmons
Title: Good News
Post by: Kam on September 24, 2021, 03:38:58 PM
Knicks GM Scott Perry said the entire Knicks roster and coaching staff is vaccinated.
Title: Re: Good News
Post by: chipstern on September 24, 2021, 05:01:37 PM
Quote from: Kam on September 24, 2021, 03:38:58 PM
Knicks GM Scott Perry said the entire Knicks roster and coaching staff is vaccinated.

Kyrie Irving has NOT BEEN vaccinated. 

Nor Andrew Wiggins. 
Title: Re: Good News
Post by: Kam on September 24, 2021, 05:07:27 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 24, 2021, 05:01:37 PM
Quote from: Kam on September 24, 2021, 03:38:58 PM
Knicks GM Scott Perry said the entire Knicks roster and coaching staff is vaccinated.

Kyrie Irving has NOT BEEN vaccinated. 


Yeah, he's one who I suspect won't get the vaccine and won't play home games.    At least for a while.  Could be why his name is in trade rumors.
Title: DeRailing The Nets
Post by: chipstern on September 24, 2021, 05:19:48 PM
Quote from: Kam on September 24, 2021, 05:07:27 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 24, 2021, 05:01:37 PM
Quote from: Kam on September 24, 2021, 03:38:58 PM
Knicks GM Scott Perry said the entire Knicks roster and coaching staff is vaccinated.

Kyrie Irving has NOT BEEN vaccinated. 


Yeah, he's one who I suspect won't get the vaccine and won't play home games.    At least for a while.  Could be why his name is in trade rumors.

Just when one is ready, willing and able to render unto Kyrie that which is Irving's, as he has made any number of charitable gestures, he goes total Flat Earth AssHat on you.

But by all means, Sean Marks, pay him 30 million plus a year to play NO HOME GAMES. 

I can dig it. 

PS: Who's in charge of the Nets? 
Title: Re: Good News
Post by: carlos123 on September 24, 2021, 06:19:54 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 24, 2021, 05:01:37 PM
Quote from: Kam on September 24, 2021, 03:38:58 PM
Knicks GM Scott Perry said the entire Knicks roster and coaching staff is vaccinated.

Kyrie Irving has NOT BEEN vaccinated. 

Nor Andrew Wiggins.

Chamaco (and Trumpf) are very disappointed with the Knicks, but happy about Kyrie and Wiggins.

Quote from: chipstern on September 24, 2021, 05:19:48 PM
PS: Who's in charge of the Nets?

A: KD and Kyrie.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 25, 2021, 08:16:38 AM

Yeah, hes one who I suspect won't get the vaccine and wont play home games.    At least for a while.  Could be why his name is in trade rumors.

Just has to get tested
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 25, 2021, 08:20:36 AM
From the linked article

Smith then reiterated Kevin Durants impact in preventing this trade from happening, but later clarified that no Nets Sixers trade has been attempted.

It was a bullshit headline - got you to click -

heh

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 25, 2021, 08:21:58 AM
I see Boston added two more white shooters to fill out their 15

Nice

(Aradiciano and Matthews)
Title: Re: Cleveland & Philly
Post by: bodiddley on September 25, 2021, 10:12:29 AM
Quote from: chipstern on September 24, 2021, 02:11:26 PM
Love, Sexton, Okoro + Draft Capital
for Simmons

Yeah, that's another deal that nets PHI a PG.
Rather risky.

Sexton can score but can he set up and feed Embid?
And he will be looking for a big new contract next year.

Can Okoro shoot well enough to space the floor.
A strong defensive wing is always welcome, but Thybulle has that role.
Both trying to develop as 3&D wings who can guard 3 positions.
Of course, could move one of them later for value to reduce duplication.

Love is a big question mark.  $60M for 2 years.  So you need some production and minutes.
Just how broken down is he?

Seems like a great deal for CLE.
Sexton likely leaving and they'd ditch Love's $$, so the only real loss is promising raw youth in Okoro.  Add some picks.  Simmons a better more versatile defender than Okoro and a better facilitator than Sexton. 

Garland - Simmons - Osman - Markk - Jar Allen
That's interesting.  3 scorers, 2 top defenders.  Depends how the parts fit and how well Markk and Oz perform.  Rubio - Valentine - Windler - Mobley a rather thin bench they could build up later.
Title: Re: Cleveland & Philly
Post by: chipstern on September 25, 2021, 10:58:32 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 25, 2021, 10:12:29 AM
Quote from: chipstern on September 24, 2021, 02:11:26 PM
Love, Sexton, Okoro + Draft Capital
for Simmons

Yeah, that's another deal that nets PHI a PG.
Rather risky.

Sexton can score but can he set up and feed Embid?
And he will be looking for a big new contract next year.

Can Okoro shoot well enough to space the floor.
A strong defensive wing is always welcome, but Thybulle has that role.
Both trying to develop as 3&D wings who can guard 3 positions.
Of course, could move one of them later for value to reduce duplication.

Love is a big question mark.  $60M for 2 years.  So you need some production and minutes.
Just how broken down is he?

Seems like a great deal for CLE.
Sexton likely leaving and they'd ditch Love's $$, so the only real loss is promising raw youth in Okoro.  Add some picks.  Simmons a better more versatile defender than Okoro and a better facilitator than Sexton. 

Garland - Simmons - Osman - Markk - Jar Allen
That's interesting.  3 scorers, 2 top defenders.  Depends how the parts fit and how well Markk and Oz perform.  Rubio - Valentine - Windler - Mobley a rather thin bench they could build up later.

The draft capital would have to include at least one unprotected #1 to tempt Philly to take a flier on the earthly remains of Love. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 25, 2021, 01:49:02 PM
Sexton-Embiid is a bad mix

Big Foot would cry all day about not being featured
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 25, 2021, 01:50:06 PM
The draft capital would have to include at least one unprotected #1 to tempt Philly to take a flier on the earthly remains of Love.


KL can still PLAY, when he plays - you so easily forget
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 25, 2021, 02:48:34 PM
Knicks bring Wayne Selden to camp

I liked him over the summer
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 26, 2021, 09:58:58 AM
PHI actually has a lot of wings:

Seth Curry   - Furkan Korkmaz - Shake Milton - rook Jaden Springer   
Danny Green - Matisse Thybulle and Georges Niangis a combo F
Title: Elba GLITCH, The Continuing Saga
Post by: chipstern on September 26, 2021, 02:32:58 PM
Copy/Cut/Paste moves not being correctly processed. 

Tried to share a piece from HoopsHype about the latest Kyrie Irving Flat Earth wackiness, this time of course regurgitating stupefying COVID vaccine conspiracies. 

Kyrie Irving

Andrew Wiggins

Jonathan Isaac

Refuse to get vaccinated

NBA needs to shut them down.  They are endangering their fellow players and everyone else in the arena. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 26, 2021, 04:18:12 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 26, 2021, 09:58:58 AM
PHI actually has a lot of wings:

Seth Curry   - Furkan Korkmaz - Shake Milton - rook Jaden Springer   
Danny Green - Matisse Thybulle and Georges Niangis a combo F


uhh....

ok
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 26, 2021, 06:04:09 PM
NBA needs to shut them down.  They are endangering their fellow players and everyone else in the arena.


They really arent

But definitely an NBA problem.

If there is loss of coin by these players we could see lawsuits
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 26, 2021, 08:08:27 PM
Austin Reeves lands with Lakers.

Heady player.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 26, 2021, 08:15:08 PM
Jonathan Isaac  Misrepresentation only allows for others to attack straw men, and not reason with the true ideas and heart of their fellow man. It helps no one True journalism is dying I believe it is your God given right to decide if taking the vaccine is right for you Period More to follow
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 26, 2021, 08:19:24 PM
This is quite dumb

The NBA should insist that all players and staff are vaccinated or remove them from the team NBA legend Kareem Abdul-Jabbar tells Rolling Stone. There is no room for players who are willing to risk the health and lives of their teammates, the staff and the fans simply because they are unable to grasp the seriousness of the situation or do the necessary research. What I find especially disingenuous about the vaccine deniers is their arrogance at disbelieving immunology and other medical experts. Yet, if their child was sick or they themselves needed emergency medical treatment, how quickly would they do exactly what those same experts told them to do?
Title: AntiMask, AntiVaxx, AntiMatter, AntiScience
Post by: chipstern on September 26, 2021, 08:42:31 PM
(https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/242906299_387504876263168_1139593996005795146_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=MIFY233UMOAAX8EVty0&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=fbe1c7006104e2b05f9df3c78538bb40&oe=6176677E)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on September 26, 2021, 08:50:32 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on September 26, 2021, 08:19:24 PM
This is quite dumb

The NBA should insist that all players and staff are vaccinated or remove them from the team NBA legend Kareem Abdul-Jabbar tells Rolling Stone. There is no room for players who are willing to risk the health and lives of their teammates, the staff and the fans simply because they are unable to grasp the seriousness of the situation or do the necessary research. What I find especially disingenuous about the vaccine deniers is their arrogance at disbelieving immunology and other medical experts. Yet, if their child was sick or they themselves needed emergency medical treatment, how quickly would they do exactly what those same experts told them to do?

On the contrary, excellent stuff!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 26, 2021, 09:03:48 PM
There is no negative correlation between not wanting the vaccination and wanting deserved drugs to help you recover if you do get sick.  One reason for not getting vaccinated IS the existence of such drugs - and such fine doctors to save you or your family member. 

"But then they want to be saved by....."

Of course.  It is their RIGHT.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on September 26, 2021, 09:04:01 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on September 26, 2021, 06:04:09 PM
NBA needs to shut them down.  They are endangering their fellow players and everyone else in the arena.


They really arent

But definitely an NBA problem.

If there is loss of coin by these players we could see lawsuits

lol, lol, lol...it's settled law, the lawsuits would get laughed out of court, but ya can't stop idjits from being idjits as you prove at least thrice daily!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on September 26, 2021, 09:06:29 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on September 26, 2021, 09:03:48 PM
There is no negative correlation between not wanting the vaccination and wanting deserved drugs to help you recover if you do get sick.  One reason for not getting vaccinated IS the existence of such drugs - and such fine doctors to save you or your family member. 

"But then they want to be saved by....."

Of course.  It is their RIGHT.

thrice daily, kiid, no need to be an idjit five times daily, we're already had our Sunday meal...in any case, it's their RIGHT to sit their dumb asses at home and not get paid
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 26, 2021, 09:47:37 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on September 26, 2021, 08:50:32 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on September 26, 2021, 08:19:24 PM
This is quite dumb

The NBA should insist that all players and staff are vaccinated or remove them from the team NBA legend Kareem Abdul-Jabbar tells Rolling Stone. There is no room for players who are willing to risk the health and lives of their teammates, the staff and the fans simply because they are unable to grasp the seriousness of the situation or do the necessary research. What I find especially disingenuous about the vaccine deniers is their arrogance at disbelieving immunology and other medical experts. Yet, if their child was sick or they themselves needed emergency medical treatment, how quickly would they do exactly what those same experts told them to do?

On the contrary, excellent stuff!

I see Kiid has taken time out from exalting white privilege to speak out in support of FRIGHT PRIVILEGE, and to speak ill of Kareem Abdul Jabbar, a man of conscience and intelligence. 

The anti-vaxxers/anti-maskers are narcissistic, self-inflated loons and goons, drinking the Kool Aid of conspiratorial fiction and Flat Earth tomfoolery. 

We're not talking about the Tukeegee Experiments; we're not talking about deliberately infecting adult African American males with syphilis in the name of some pseudo-scientific Josef Mengele house of horrors quote/unquote "medical research" for crying out loud. 

We are talking about rolling back a pandemic in the name of ALL OF OUR BROTHERS AND SISTERS, here, and around the world. 

You don't have A RIGHT to drive drunk, let alone without a license and insurance.  But in Kiid's world it's okay to treat womens' uterus like an easy bake oven.   

I am sure that Kiid would have been at the very front of the que, affirming that IT WAS HIS RIGHT, when Muhammad Ali refused to step forward and accept his draft status based on his religious convictions, based on being a conscientious objector ["...no Viet Cong ever called me N____r."]

I only receive my Kiid Manifestos second hand from you, Daaaawg, as well as Carlos and Facil, as I have remained true to IGNORE, save for the new Kiid-B manifestation...

Feel free to represent my proxy when he who has no shame bellies up to the lunch counter to give us this day our bowl of bowel movement....

As for Isaac, Wiggins, Irving.  By all means, it is their RIGHT to stay home and not get paid in standing up for a principle and sitting down in their own stool. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 26, 2021, 10:18:21 PM
You do't have A RIGHT to drive drunk, let alone without a license and insurance.  But in Kiids world it's okay to treat womens uterus like an easy bake oven.   


More dumb.
Title: Chamaco messing with you
Post by: carlos123 on September 27, 2021, 12:50:39 AM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on September 26, 2021, 10:18:21 PM
You do't have A RIGHT to drive drunk, let alone without a license and insurance.  But in Kiids world it's okay to treat womens uterus like an easy bake oven.   


More dumb.

But Elba
Title: Cannot post
Post by: carlos123 on September 27, 2021, 12:52:38 AM
3 words
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 27, 2021, 04:10:00 AM
There's a reason that people in the US and most of the world don't get polio, measles, mumps, rubella, diptheria.  And why every state requires MMR vaccination before children are permitted to attend public school (except Iowa which doesn't require mumps vaccination).
The core function of government is to provide for the health, safety and welfare of its citizens.

NBA players have a right not to get vaccinated.  NBA employers have a right not to have unvaccinated people in their workplace.  I don't think Kyrie, Wiggins, Isaac can work from home ...  Those guys just need to find another job that'll pay them $20M a year.
Title: Elba fixed?
Post by: carlos123 on September 27, 2021, 10:42:18 AM
Not yet. Not for me. Truncates whatever I write
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 27, 2021, 11:38:50 AM
There's a reason that people in the US and most of the world don't get polio, measles, mumps, rubella, diptheria.  And why every state requires MMR vaccination before children are permitted to attend public school (except Iowa which doesn't require mumps vaccination).
The core function of government is to provide for the health, safety and welfare of its citizens.


We dont have a vaccine yet that prevents you from getting COVID-19
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 27, 2021, 11:41:20 AM
NBA players have a right not to get vaccinated.  NBA employers have a right not to have unvaccinated people in their workplace.  I don't think Kyrie, Wiggins, Isaac can work from home ...  Those guys just need to find another job that'll pay them $20M a year.


I have little doubt these players will receive their full salaries
Title: Mouth Ingesting Own Feces 6x a day like Clockwork
Post by: lesterluv on September 27, 2021, 12:25:50 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on September 27, 2021, 11:38:50 AM
There's a reason that people in the US and most of the world don't get polio, measles, mumps, rubella, diptheria.  And why every state requires MMR vaccination before children are permitted to attend public school (except Iowa which doesn't require mumps vaccination).
The core function of government is to provide for the health, safety and welfare of its citizens.


We dont have a vaccine yet that prevents you from getting COVID-19

Of course we do you blithering idiot, we have multiple, that do exceptional jobs at preventing people from getting COVID. What we don't have are vaccines that prevent 100% of people from getting COVID as 100% vaccines don't exist. Our current crop, however, prevent high 90's percentages from getting seriously ill from COVID, fantastic stuff!
Title: Next On Tap...Super Bowl!
Post by: lesterluv on September 27, 2021, 12:34:24 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on September 27, 2021, 11:41:20 AM
NBA players have a right not to get vaccinated.  NBA employers have a right not to have unvaccinated people in their workplace.  I don't think Kyrie, Wiggins, Isaac can work from home ...  Those guys just need to find another job that'll pay them $20M a year.


I have little doubt these players will receive their full salaries

You had little doubt Rachel Nichols was gonna get her job back...and that Maria Taylor's career was over, rofl...
(https://cdn1.thecomeback.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/94/2021/08/taylor_brees-832x447.png)
(https://ewscripps.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/2c20f10/2147483647/strip/true/crop/1920x1080+0+0/resize/1280x720!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fimages.nbcolympics.com%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2F2021-07%2FMaria-Taylor-2.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 27, 2021, 12:52:16 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on September 25, 2021, 01:49:02 PM
Sexton-Embiid is a bad mix
Big Foot would cry all day about not being featured

Probably. 
Likely justified.

Quote from: kidcarter8 on September 26, 2021, 04:18:12 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 26, 2021, 09:58:58 AM
PHI actually has a lot of wings:

Seth Curry   - Furkan Korkmaz - Shake Milton - rook Jaden Springer   
Danny Green - Matisse Thybulle and Georges Niang is a combo F
uhh....
ok

The point being an Okoro isn't that appealing to PHI.  When they have Danny Green, Thybulle, Niang and loads of SG scorers.

And the loaded wing underscores that they desperately need a starting PG as part of the return for Simmons.  A backup PF would be the other need.  Right now Niang slots in there.

Sexton - Love + (Okoro)
Dragic - Siakim +
Brunson - KZ  +

All those deals get PHI the right parts, a PG & PF.
But somewhat weak and need to be balanced by picks.  But PHI is in Win Now mode.
Title: Amen
Post by: chipstern on September 27, 2021, 12:54:32 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 27, 2021, 04:10:00 AM
There's a reason that people in the US and most of the world don't get polio, measles, mumps, rubella, diptheria.  And why every state requires MMR vaccination before children are permitted to attend public school (except Iowa which doesn't require mumps vaccination).
The core function of government is to provide for the health, safety and welfare of its citizens.

NBA players have a right not to get vaccinated.  NBA employers have a right not to have unvaccinated people in their workplace.  I don't think Kyrie, Wiggins, Isaac can work from home ...  Those guys just need to find another job that'll pay them $20M a year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 27, 2021, 01:03:09 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 21, 2021, 08:52:12 PM
But again, I would be happy with Rose, Quickley, Vildoza AND a Collegian.


Name any amount and I will give you 5-1 odds this is not happening

I am IN on adding a collegian, as I have posted.

McClung (Tx Tech) probably goes to Charlotte as an undrafted (would prefer over Knicks/Celts).  Hoping for McBride or Hyland.


yyyep
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on September 27, 2021, 01:04:30 PM
George Washington set the precedent....
https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2021/08/29/george-washington-smallpox-inoculation-army/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2021/08/29/george-washington-smallpox-inoculation-army/)


In 1905,  Jacobson v. Massachusetts set it in stone.
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/09/08/vaccine-mandate-strong-supreme-court-precedent-510280 (https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/09/08/vaccine-mandate-strong-supreme-court-precedent-510280)

The Guv gotta do its best to keep the kiids from kroaking, lol...
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/27/briefing/covid-red-states-vaccinations.html
 (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/27/briefing/covid-red-states-vaccinations.html)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 27, 2021, 01:16:32 PM
Here's a blockbuster I just made up:

Simmons + Thybulle & Springer = Siakim + FVV

FVV - Scurry - Siakim - Tobias - Embiid
That's a powerhouse starting 5.
And still a solid (though unproven) bench of Maxey - Korkmaz - Shake - Niang - Drummond

TOR:
Simmons - Trent - Anunoby - #4 pick Barnes - Boucher
A real athletic starting 5. 
Also fairly deep:
Dragic/Flynn - Springer/Svi - Thybulle - Achiuwa - Birch

Get some chemistry, add in a vet Big.
I don't know how NBA ready rook Barnes is. 
Boucher was incredibly intriguing last year.
28 and a little raw, but strong shotblocker who can hit 3's.

Be a very young core:  Simmons 25.
OG and Thybulle 24; Flynn 23, Trent & Achiuwa 22; Barnes 20, Springer 19.
Siakim and FVV are both 27.
Excellent deal for PHI (imo) and I like it for TOR.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 27, 2021, 01:42:56 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on September 27, 2021, 01:04:30 PM
George Washington set the precedent....
https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2021/08/29/george-washington-smallpox-inoculation-army/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2021/08/29/george-washington-smallpox-inoculation-army/)


In 1905,  Jacobson v. Massachusetts set it in stone.
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/09/08/vaccine-mandate-strong-supreme-court-precedent-510280 (https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/09/08/vaccine-mandate-strong-supreme-court-precedent-510280)

The Guv gotta do its best to keep the kiids from kroaking, lol...
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/27/briefing/covid-red-states-vaccinations.html
 (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/27/briefing/covid-red-states-vaccinations.html)

Unless it's sourced from Newsmax or Michael Flynn's flaccid member, you can give up on making a point to Douche McJive. 
Title: T-Minus-One
Post by: chipstern on September 27, 2021, 01:59:31 PM
At the Knicks opening presser, Derrick Rose plainly stated that KEMBA WALKER IS THE STARTING POINT GUARD. 

Tuesday, October 5 is our first pre-season game against the Pacers. 

Wednesday, October 20 is our opening battle against Bank's Celtics. 

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQsL2NdTwgrFs4S_WXG9BMY2TrBFU8kyyFISTI-YDN0-z2XLySOjw63MxRkv0aekJa0EqM&usqp=CAU)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 27, 2021, 02:04:38 PM
At the Knicks opening presser, Derrick Rose plainly stated that KEMBA WALKER IS THE STARTING POINT GUARD.


yeah - no shit.
Title: Word
Post by: chipstern on September 27, 2021, 02:07:33 PM
(https://d.newsweek.com/en/full/1331800/fe-lebron-10-640699820-edit.jpg?w=1280&h=853&f=ea1d27b13d5c1f76b2a0e11f42b2642d)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 27, 2021, 02:10:05 PM
Not many great leapers back then
Title: David Letterman at NYETS Media Day
Post by: chipstern on September 27, 2021, 02:16:54 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FATAfBzVEAEMVdo?format=jpg&name=medium)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 27, 2021, 03:13:02 PM
maskless
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 27, 2021, 08:55:27 PM
MATT RYAN to Nuggets, who are quite interesting
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 27, 2021, 09:01:19 PM
WHEW!  Good thing we didnt draft Michael Porter Jr

Look how much we'd have had to pay him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 27, 2021, 09:31:38 PM
(https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/243596460_10162578057344616_3846282087719028296_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=vSiFIJxfwQYAX-EgaJF&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=e5b96b72c78a70c62078cb6b937f3062&oe=61577AAB)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 28, 2021, 09:07:46 AM
Nice

Who's missing?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 28, 2021, 12:57:35 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on September 27, 2021, 09:01:19 PM
WHEW!  Good thing we didnt draft Michael Porter Jr
Look how much we'd have had to pay him.

You don't think DEN isn't nervous about dropping $35M a year on Porter?
He's a lights-out shooter and solid rebounder.  But has had two back surgeries and only started one season.  62 career starts over 2 seasons.  Drafted #14, everyone drafted ahead of him has played more minutes except Mo Bomb.  7/13 have played twice as many minutes as Porter.

Btw, Mo Bomb I pegged as a Top 10 draft bust at the time.  Always one or two or three Top 10 busts. Unfortunately for 2018, it's looking like Mo Bomba and Knox were the busts.

Anyway, Porter is a nice player, but with significant holes in his game.  Lotta promise if he can stay healthy.  Porter is still a weak defender, but not as abysmally clueless as in his first season.  Can you count on Porter becoming an average or better defender?  He's averaged 1 assist over 30 minutes, which kiid used to kill Uber Kelly for.  Barely gets FT's.  Does he have the clutch gene?  Can he stay healthy?  Could be like Gallo, who always showed promise but kept breaking down.

I also want to see how Porter and Gordon fit together.
Can they really pay the two of them a combined $55M a year?
I'd be spooked paying Porter 5/$175M
Small sample of health and productivity to drop a max contract for.
Couldn't they have waited until after this season?
Title: Re: T-Minus-One
Post by: bodiddley on September 28, 2021, 01:00:53 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 27, 2021, 01:59:31 PM
At the Knicks opening presser, Derrick Rose plainly stated that KEMBA WALKER IS THE STARTING POINT GUARD. 
Makes the most sense.
But good to hear Rose on board with it.
DRose will likely start 20+ games, with Kemba missing time and maybe resting on B2B's.
That's not Thibs plan, but might just be the reality of Kemba's knees.
And Rose will often, maybe close to always, be in the closing lineup.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 28, 2021, 01:18:33 PM
I think Porter has proven to be fully healthy and thus Denver's mini gamble has paid off handsomely

You need 3+ star players to win these days - accepted wisdom?  Well - One way to get a star is through the draft.  And Nuggets nailed this one.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 28, 2021, 01:25:12 PM
Zaire Smith and Dzanan Musa are the two first round busts - with Knox - from 2018

Jacob Evans, Jerome Robinson not so good either

Complete disagree on Bamba.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 28, 2021, 01:42:00 PM
I always try to determine the Top 10 busts in real time.
I don't know all 30 1st round picks.
Hell, I barely know the Top 10.
It's easy to look back 3 years later and see who didn't perform or was picked too high.
Every draft there are 2 or 3 Top 10 busts.

Bomba shouldn't have been picked in the lottery.
Same with Fortgettable Knox.
Bagley and Carter Jr have underperformed.  Also picked too high.

As we've gone over plenty, Shai, Bridges x 2, POrter Jr. were all vastly superior picks to Knox.  They've all panned out nicely.  Knox still has a chance to develop or discover his NBA game/role.  But the clock is ticking.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 28, 2021, 02:10:26 PM
I always try to determine the Top 10 busts in real time.
I don't know all 30 1st round picks.
Hell, I barely know the Top 10.
Its easy to look back 3 years later and see who didnt perform or was picked too high.
Every draft there are 2 or 3 Top 10 busts.

That's fair

Bamba has improved in play and usage each year.  I look for this to continue.  Justified pick, surely.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 28, 2021, 02:11:56 PM
Bagley and Carter Jr have underperformed.  Also picked too high.


but not in "real time"

heh

should be a fun year - I will try not to be so disagreeable.  (no promises)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 29, 2021, 12:53:23 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on September 28, 2021, 02:11:56 PM
Bagley and Carter Jr have underperformed.  Also picked too high.

but not in "real time"

Bagley and Carter are kind of the new Curry and Chandler.  They look the part, have size and talent, but something holding them back.  Injuries and a chaotic organization for Bagley.
ECity flamed out but TyC became a respected strong vet. ...
Maybe one of them is the new Derrick Favors ...

I'm not a draftnik. Most years I'm just going by writeups and such.  Some years I look at some highlight clips.

Usually the Top 10 busts are:

1) raw Big Men who either aren't motivated enough or just not up to snuff.  Big Men still get picked too high (Bamba, Bender, Marq Chriss, Thon Maker, etc).
 
2) Athletic defensive wings who never can find an offensive game (MKG, Stan Johnson, Wes Johnson, Culver, Nkilitina, Mudiay, keeping an eye on Okoro).  2a) Maybe Franc and Mudiay represent a distinct subset, defenders projected as PG's who aren't PG's, and can't score as SG's need to).
 
3) 19 year olds who have a limited track record and/or injury concerns (Knox, Kwame Brown types). 

Outside of blue chip territory (Top 5) PG's seem to be pretty hit or miss throughout the draft.

Generally wings, surprisingly including 2-way SF's, tend to go too low.
(Kawhi, Giannis, Paul George, Dray Green, Middleton, Danny Granger, etc)
Title: Blue Chip
Post by: chipstern on September 29, 2021, 09:37:55 AM
Luca Vildoza is still in a walking boot from his Summer League injury. 

Kemba, Derrick, Immanuel, Miles...

[Gulp]

LUCA, we hardly knew ye.
Title: He's no Jimmer
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 29, 2021, 10:10:43 AM
Low risk.  Low cost.  Knicks getting the always likely low reward.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 29, 2021, 10:19:46 AM
https://kslsports.com/468527/jimmer-fredette-byu-hall-of-fame-2021-class/

Happy to see Jimmer to be back playing in China

29.7/5.5/4.8 over 210 games.  But hasnt shot well in playoffs.  Looking for elusive title - not sure how good Shanghai is.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/international/players/jimmer-fredette-1.html
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 29, 2021, 10:48:40 AM
According to Nerlens Noel, the team told him to work on taking corner threes this summer.
Title: [Cough]
Post by: chipstern on September 29, 2021, 10:58:37 AM
Quote from: Kam on September 29, 2021, 10:48:40 AM
According to Nerlens Noel, the team told him to work on taking corner threes this summer.

Why not. 

Mitchell as well, one hopes. 

Hey, Embid and Brook Lopez and Giannis [all WAY BETTER offensive players and shooters] got it together. so why not, as a change of pace. 

Likewise, while Nerlens was an inspiring rim protector and offensive rebounder, he was pretty shaky around the basket and in the midrange, so...we shall see. 

I mean, it CAN be done.  Again, Brook Lopez has always been a gifted offensive 5, but only since arriving in Milwaukee has he really turned his three into a steady dependable threat.  Having him AND Portis to stretch the defense is quite the weapon. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 29, 2021, 11:16:04 AM
I like our bigs

The least worrisome group for me this year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 29, 2021, 03:00:15 PM
Told yall about Vildoza

Thanks for the pics Chip

I really like the work Mitch did on his thighs this offseason

Kemba starting is fine. Cap him at twenty two minutes a game. We should be able to get a Rose sized result out of a Payton sized run from the diminutive prodigal maestro now he has returned home
Title: Toppin-Randle sharing the floor?
Post by: Kam on September 29, 2021, 05:54:19 PM
Reporter: Tom can you see you playing Julius and Obi together?

Tom: We'll get a look at it.  It wasn't very effective last year, but the one thing about both guys, Obi I think is a lot better than he was a year ago and Julius just continues to get better and better.  So we'll see how it unfolds.

Reporter: Is it that you lose the rim protection?

Tom: The rim protection is the big thing yeah
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 29, 2021, 06:03:04 PM
Told yall about Vildoza


Told us what?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 29, 2021, 07:20:50 PM
Homey is not making the show.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 30, 2021, 12:25:39 AM
Irving for Simmons trade?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 30, 2021, 04:25:12 AM
What else do Nets toss in?
Right now, Kyrie too unreliable for straight up.
Health, unvaccinated status, flaking off -- Kyrie likely to miss games, perhaps plenty of games.  (PHI could use a backup PF, so how about Milsap ...)


On court, a good fit for both teams.  BKY could use the extra D and have enough halfcourt scoring to compensate for Simmons.  While PHI needs a scorer/ballhandler such as Kyrie.
Maybe being the prime distributor would revive Kyrie's team game ...

Recent talk is PHI would prefer to move Simmons out West and not help an East team improve.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 30, 2021, 05:31:47 AM
Fac
A  blast from the recent past 
Quote from: bankshot1 on September 24, 2021, 11:24:24 AM
I heard that KD killed a prospective Simmons/KI trade.

I could see a long shot-shy Simmons playing with and feeding Durant and Harden and fitting in with his passing and D and paint-game

but KD said NFW, and had KI's back.

I think he knew that Embiid would kill KI if he tried to pull his shit in Philly.
Although It seems roughly fair value, as it pairs a guy who won't take a shot for a guy who won't take a shot
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on September 30, 2021, 08:33:45 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on September 27, 2021, 11:41:20 AM
NBA players have a right not to get vaccinated.  NBA employers have a right not to have unvaccinated people in their workplace.  I don't think Kyrie, Wiggins, Isaac can work from home ...  Those guys just need to find another job that'll pay them $20M a year.


I have little doubt these players will receive their full salaries

I had little doubt you would be wrong as you are nine times out of eight.

https://www.barrons.com/news/vaccine-holdouts-in-new-york-san-francisco-won-t-be-paid-nba-01632935408 (https://www.barrons.com/news/vaccine-holdouts-in-new-york-san-francisco-won-t-be-paid-nba-01632935408)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 30, 2021, 01:09:50 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 30, 2021, 12:25:39 AM
Irving for Simmons trade?


SWAT!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 30, 2021, 01:13:33 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on September 30, 2021, 08:33:45 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on September 27, 2021, 11:41:20 AM
NBA players have a right not to get vaccinated.  NBA employers have a right not to have unvaccinated people in their workplace.  I don't think Kyrie, Wiggins, Isaac can work from home ...  Those guys just need to find another job that'll pay them $20M a year.


I have little doubt these players will receive their full salaries

I had little doubt you would be wrong as you are nine times out of eight.

https://www.barrons.com/news/vaccine-holdouts-in-new-york-san-francisco-won-t-be-paid-nba-01632935408 (https://www.barrons.com/news/vaccine-holdouts-in-new-york-san-francisco-won-t-be-paid-nba-01632935408)

Good luck with that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on September 30, 2021, 01:35:05 PM
lol, lol, who needs good luck? why?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 30, 2021, 11:47:15 PM
Quote
Over 13 career playoff games, Doncic is averaging 33.5 points, 9.5 assists and 8.8 rebounds.

Yet the team can't get out of the 1st round.  And doesn't look any better this year.  Basically they swapped Reg Bullock's steady 2 way game in for Josh Richardson's less consistent 2 way game.   Brunson will be a year older and wiser.  And the rest is pretty much the same.
Neophytes Josh Green and Moses Brown might help slightly around the edges.

Apparently KZ was unhappy and wanted out.  But now willing to give Coach Kidd a chance.  KZ seems to be disgruntled easily.  Injuries and mentality have been holding him back.  Is he willing to work his way back to all-star form?  Or just going to play and collect huge checks?  Does he care about winning?  Team?

Luca upped his defense last year, from crappy to nearly average.  But KZ was not mobile enough to guard anywhere.  Permanently a half step slow at the rim, a full step slow on the perimeter.  Can he get his mobility back?  Can he shoot more consistently?  Does he care or is he too sulky?

For some reason, Capt. Kidd plans on KZ at PF and Dwight Powell at C.  Powell also has been limited by major leg injuries.  But still I'd much rather Powell guarding a stretch 4/5 with KZ as the down low help defender than the other way around.  So I don't get it.  Unless KZ is like AD and doesn't want to be a full time C (due to contact?).

Be nice to see KZ return to health and form.  Not sure he has the work ethic, mindset or physical chops to pull it off.

DAL needs to figure out how not to waste Luca's historic young years. 
Not likely the quintet of ex-Knix will get them to the 2nd round.
Title: Dray on Uncle Wiggy
Post by: bodiddley on September 30, 2021, 11:51:58 PM
Quote
"I'm not in any position to tell him what he should or should not be doing," Dray Green said. "I'm not going to go and ask him did he get a polio vaccine? So why would I go ask him if he got a COVID vaccine?

Gee, what could be different between CV and Polio?
Not to mention why ...
sheesh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 01, 2021, 02:26:32 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 30, 2021, 11:51:58 PM
Quote
"I'm not in any position to tell him what he should or should not be doing," Green said. "I'm not going to go and ask him did he get a polio vaccine? So why would I go ask him if he got a COVID vaccine?

Gee, what could be different between CV and Polio?
Not to mention why ...
sheesh

My God.

FDR

Joni Mitchell

Neil Young

Wonder what Tucker Carlson would've thought about Dr. Jonas Salk.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 01, 2021, 09:18:26 AM
RE:  Dallas

Bench guys I know but Kleber missed 20 games and Boban missed 50

Will Kidd use Marjanovic at all?  He's an effective guy when in there but you just have to play a bit different
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 01, 2021, 09:50:16 AM
Knick fans out in the cold?  Holy smokes!

https://twitter.com/StevePopper/status/1443899217748049923?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1443899217748049923%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fhoopshype.com%2Frumors%2F
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 01, 2021, 02:44:11 PM
95% of players vaccinated

https://www.nba.com/news/report-nba-reaches-95-vaccination-rate-among-players
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 02, 2021, 09:59:50 AM
Game changer in Minnesota

Dane Moore: Naz Reid on Pat Bev: He brings an intensity. Effort is big for him. Hes contagious in a good way. He talks. Hes in every spot he needs to be. With him doing that, hes able to tell the next guy what to do because hes doing what hes supposed to do
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 02, 2021, 10:04:31 AM
And maybe in Sac as well

Jason Anderson: Tyrese Haliburton says he is looking forward to Mondays preseason opener because - I have seen Davions face too much guarding me, so I am looking forward to him being on my side.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 02, 2021, 11:44:27 AM
Pa Bev is aging and breaking down.  Does he play 50 games?  And no one else plays D on that team.  Maybe Pa Bev can teach Edwards to fight on D.  Takes time for most young players, but that could be Bev's lasting contribution.

TyH could have a breakthrough year.  Very savvy player on both ends.  Hopefully he can get out of Sacto where players never seem to develop. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 02, 2021, 12:26:05 PM
I think you missed the Sacramento point
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 02, 2021, 02:08:56 PM
Nope.  Davion isn't going to see much court time.  Nobody except TyH shows much aptitude for/interest in D in Sacto.  Another year of individuals playing a team sport.  Btw, Davion Mitch a year and a half older than tyH (Dav turned 23 recently).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 02, 2021, 03:22:16 PM
I will take that bet on Davion

I was wrong on him pre draft.  Think he will be a factor.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 02, 2021, 03:28:39 PM
"Nobody but Ty H plays D"

You mean last year's team right?
Title: Defensive Dawg
Post by: chipstern on October 02, 2021, 09:01:13 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 02, 2021, 02:08:56 PM
Nope.  Davion isn't going to see much court time.  Nobody except TyH shows much aptitude for/interest in D in Sacto.  Another year of individuals playing a team sport.  Btw, Davion Mitch a year and a half older than tyH (Dav turned 23 recently).

Davion is going to see A LOT OF TIME

SHEEEEEEEEET

You didn't see him in summer league. 

He is a dawg.

Looking for  him to help transform Kings culture by his defensive play.

By his example.

Look for  Hield to play Burks Fournier role.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 02, 2021, 09:21:28 PM
Looking for Haliburton to play some 4

But even if he doesn't, plenty of minutes even before any injury might factor in
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 03, 2021, 04:29:01 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 02, 2021, 09:21:28 PM
Looking for Haliburton to play some 4
I'd be surprised if he plays 2 mins at PF.  Would seem to deliberately try to nullify his strengths. Usually Barnes is their smallball 4.  But they do need to shake things up.

They looked so incoherent last year.   
Someone needs to light a fire under Hield.  Or call him out everytime he falls asleep away from the ball.  Size, fairly athletic -- Hield should be able to play average D.  He doesn't seem interested.  And they need a defensive scheme that gives Fox a clear role and reduces his detriment.

Okay, so they add Tristan Thompson and Davion Mitchell.  If TyH comes off the bench, then theironly 3 defenders are on the 2nd unit.

De'Aaron Fox
Buddy Hield   
Harrison Barnes   
Marvin Bagley III
Richaun Holmes

Is that what they role with?

I'd rather:
Fox
TyH
Barnes
Bagley
Tristan

Get two defenders in the starting lineup.  Set the tone.
Hield would be unhappy.  Rich Holmes could come in early and still get plenty of human bowling ball minutes.

You want more shooting:
Fox
TyH
Hield
Barnes
Tristan
4 shooters and a rim protector.
Bench of Dav Mitchell, T Davis, Mo Hark, Bagley, Holmes.

My only definite starters would be Fox and TyH.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 03, 2021, 12:37:07 PM
http://www.nba.com/knicks/knicks-waive-luca-vildoza (http://www.nba.com/knicks/knicks-waive-luca-vildoza)

This must have been a huge shock to everyone as it definitely was to me.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 03, 2021, 12:40:31 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 02, 2021, 12:26:05 PM
I think you missed the Sacramento point

A guy with one year in the league who has never seen playoff defense is praising a rook who has never defended in an NBA game during camp when the whole league is packed with Jordans Magics and Birds.

Go ahead. Get hyped about the Kings. Knock yourself out.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 03, 2021, 01:38:24 PM
My only definite starters would be Fox and TyH.


I think Fox, Hield, Bagley and Holmes are the 4 definites
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 03, 2021, 01:41:00 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 03, 2021, 12:40:31 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 02, 2021, 12:26:05 PM
I think you missed the Sacramento point

A guy with one year in the league who has never seen playoff defense is praising a rook who has never defended in an NBA game during camp when the whole league is packed with Jordans Magics and Birds.

Go ahead. Get hyped about the Kings. Knock yourself out.

Following Kings, Nuggets and TWolves in the West - with of course the Lakers.

East?  Knicks, Nets, along with BULLS and..........  likely Wiz (but may change that)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 03, 2021, 02:28:13 PM
Stat alert

Buddy Hield

833 three pointers made in 225 games over last 3 seasons
Title: Done Deal
Post by: chipstern on October 03, 2021, 04:02:10 PM
Andrew Wiggins got vaccinated.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 03, 2021, 05:28:49 PM
'gets'
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 03, 2021, 05:39:25 PM
Kid is snippy. He is probably being evicted again. It is his time of the month.
Title: Chamaco
Post by: carlos123 on October 03, 2021, 07:28:25 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 03, 2021, 05:39:25 PM
Kid is snippy. He is probably being evicted again. It is his time of the month.

He's just bitchy. Poor thing can't help himself.

Also, he has a thing for Chip.

Hey Chip, lucky you!

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLXA6gc21H16unuIFjO8gMIPyfa22rMTELIgt8s56j_8n0B3QWxkWmFyh-l2NHBTmaQk8x0t_2hzw54YbZabyXDK0hoclgD0vXLe8GH6QO7YFjd2pGJpUM9HMqWnZDy_XAvSWQmqEEYfXbBWD0Ttgc9S=w626-h570-no?authuser=0)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 03, 2021, 11:07:45 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 03, 2021, 02:28:13 PM
Stat alert
Buddy Hield
833 three pointers made in 225 games over last 3 seasons

Hield just rarely impacts winning.
He seems content to have just one skill.
And yet he's been disgruntled.
Wasn't he asking for a trade(?)

Who's their leader?  Harrison "Silent" Barnes?
Fox and Hield are talented non-team players.
Can Tristan and tyH really push the rest.
Coherence lacking.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 03, 2021, 11:11:09 PM
Leader?

heh

What are these numbers?

14
7
15
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 04, 2021, 01:34:59 AM
Oh I got this!

The number of teeth in your head
Your IQ
The length of your dick in millimeters

Swish for the win.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 04, 2021, 03:14:36 AM
So presumably the Knix:

Kemba Walker   
RJ Barrett
Evan Fournier
Julius Randle
Mitchell Robinson

I guess the main question is when the opponent has a scoring PG, do you put RJB or Fournier on them?  You don't want RJB getting cheap early fouls, and he's quite a good help defender. Can Evan Four function as a useful offball defender -- with help and closeouts?  That is, RJB's role last year.  Requires alertness, effort and quick decision-making.   Fournier can use his fouls, as we have Burks and IQ to come in and microwave.

I assume Kemba will follow the Thibs dictate of going over every screen and trailing the ballhandler.  Rose was quite good at disrupting PG's from behind.  But Walker likely doesn't have the size, tenacity, knees to be effective at that.

So on D, I'm concerned with how to compensate for Kemba's shortcomings.

2nd unit
Derrick Rose      
Alec Burks
Kevin Knox II
Obi Toppin      
Nerlens Noel   

Pretty solid bench, but just one defender.
Will Knox be the 10th man or a regular part of the 2nd unit?
Or do we see RJB eat up minutes at both wing positions.
And then IQ as the 10th man.  And Knox situational.

We've got a very deep team and aren't contending.  I'd rather Randle and RJB drop down to a more normal 33 mins per.  With ObiT and IQ/Grimes getting some run.

3rd string:
McBride - Immanuel Quickley - Quentin Grimes - [Knox] - Taj Gibson

Kemba and Rose will miss some games.
Opening up time for IQ, and then maybe McBride slipping into IQ's spot.
Otherwise, it's hard to see McBride and Grimey getting run.
Thibs prefers vets long minutes and rooks not seen or heard from.
ObiT likely 9th man, and our two rooks not in the rotation.   Not exactly maximizing the draft ..
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 04, 2021, 03:44:45 AM
Kemba will either pace or outpace the opposing scoring PG or we will not see much of that matchup for the duration. The other four guys will try to shrink the floor for him and he will have to go close to all out to keep up but he is Kemba and that is what he does quite nicely in his career so far. If it does not work like that he can take a step back to figure out how to be like Rose for the next phase of his career while D Rose steps back up into Thibs PG seat where he has been known to operate quite well. What Bryant does with the young ones is the X factor.

What would it mean for the Knicks if Taj or less likely Noel started hitting threes at a near forty percent clip?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 04, 2021, 06:57:40 AM
Taj is our 5th Big.
Doubt he sees any court time without an injury to someone ahead of him.
I think he's mostly a practice player, essentially an extra assistant coach, and a guy who can push Thibs' agenda/style from within.

With that said, Taj was super active on the offensive boards last year.  His effort and tipping balls often allowed the Knix defense to get back and matchup, disallowing transition offense.
And he grabbed some O-boards as well.  Corner 3 Taj would just take him away from his O-boarding harassment.

Mitch & Nerlens haven't been the most durable in the past.  So Taj will bide his time, somewhat like IQ who is 3rd PG (behind a pair of creaky PG's) and 6th G.   And some nights Thibs might just want Taj's energy and discipline out there.  But I can't see him making an impact with 3-balls at age 36, while not likely to play much as well.

I'd have Taj work with ObiT.  Help the lad with defensive awareness and positioning.  ObiT wasn't as bad on D as advertised.  Also, work with ObiT on O-boarding, where he seems to have a knack. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 04, 2021, 09:33:32 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 03, 2021, 11:11:09 PM
Leader?

heh

What are these numbers?

14
7
15

Kings consecutive losing seasons after moving to SAC
Subsequent consecutive WINNING seasons
Last spate of losing years following the 7

Leadership?, he asks.

Well, I suppose this year that would come from the VETERANS

Harkless, Thompson, Barnes and Holmes

or the young POTENTIAL leaders Haliburton and Mitchell

FIFTEEN YEARS!  Good God.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 04, 2021, 11:02:32 AM
Re:  the genius of Bo lineups

I like Grimes over Knox but my guess is Thibs does give KK some early run

Grimes is REAL.

McBride-Quickley will become a battle - and yes, as Bo says - it may be for Knox/Grimes' tenth rotation spot

With WINNING the only thing this year I do expect some 9 man rotation games.

(ADD:  Nerlens-Mitch straight up comp to start, no?)
Title: Query
Post by: chipstern on October 04, 2021, 03:29:47 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 04, 2021, 03:14:36 AM
So presumably the Knix:

Kemba Walker   
RJ Barrett
Evan Fournier
Julius Randle
Mitchell Robinson

I guess the main question is when the opponent has a scoring PG, do you put RJB or Fournier on them?  You don't want RJB getting cheap early fouls, and he's quite a good help defender. Can Evan Four function as a useful offball defender -- with help and closeouts?  That is, RJB's role last year.  Requires alertness, effort and quick decision-making.   Fournier can use his fouls, as we have Burks and IQ to come in and microwave.

I assume Kemba will follow the Thibs dictate of going over every screen and trailing the ballhandler.  Rose was quite good at disrupting PG's from behind.  But Walker likely doesn't have the size, tenacity, knees to be effective at that.

So on D, I'm concerned with how to compensate for Kemba's shortcomings.

2nd unit
Derrick Rose      
Alec Burks
Kevin Knox II
Obi Toppin      
Nerlens Noel   

Pretty solid bench, but just one defender.
Will Knox be the 10th man or a regular part of the 2nd unit?
Or do we see RJB eat up minutes at both wing positions.
And then IQ as the 10th man.  And Knox situational.

We've got a very deep team and aren't contending.  I'd rather Randle and RJB drop down to a more normal 33 mins per.  With ObiT and IQ/Grimes getting some run.

3rd string:
McBride - Immanuel Quickley - Quentin Grimes - [Knox] - Taj Gibson

Kemba and Rose will miss some games.
Opening up time for IQ, and then maybe McBride slipping into IQ's spot.
Otherwise, it's hard to see McBride and Grimey getting run.
Thibs prefers vets long minutes and rooks not seen or heard from.
ObiT likely 9th man, and our two rooks not in the rotation.   Not exactly maximizing the draft ..

And whom would our resident GM have drafted.

Halliburton over Toppin

And whom over Grimes, Joukabitis, McBride and Sims?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 04, 2021, 05:31:11 PM
I would have Taj work with ObiT.  Help the lad with defensive awareness and positioning.  ObiT was not as bad on D as advertised.  Also, work with ObiT on O-boarding, where he seems to have a knack.


OBI was a great interview last week.  Just "being a sponge", learning from his mates and looking to improve on a rookie season not up to his expectation.

Keeper.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 04, 2021, 05:41:23 PM
And whom over Grimes, Joukabitis, McBride and Sims?


Isiah Jackson
Bones Hyland

But I am cool with the draft
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 04, 2021, 07:43:03 PM
Those are now definitely two of the washout candidates this year. Jackson and Hyland. Nice kids. Damn shame.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 04, 2021, 08:28:43 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 04, 2021, 07:43:03 PM
Those are now definitely two of the washout candidates this year. Jackson and Hyland. Nice kids. Damn shame.

Isiah Jackson?  Of Kentucky?   

I suspect we gave him a long hard look before putting our #19 pick on ice till, knick on wood, 2022.
 
Could be another Mitchell. 

We will get a look tomorrow night. 

PS: Garza on the Pistons looks to have been a bit of luck for them late in the second round. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 04, 2021, 08:49:00 PM
White guys dont rate

National Player of the Year.....

Pistons have already locked him up for extra cashola
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 04, 2021, 08:51:20 PM
I suspect we gave him a long hard look before putting our #19 pick on ice till, knick on wood, 2022.


Agree.

I think we liked GRIMES that much as an overall talent and knew he would be there for us

Now Hyland?  May be a guy we regret passing on - we shall see
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 04, 2021, 10:39:34 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on September 30, 2021, 01:13:33 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on September 30, 2021, 08:33:45 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on September 27, 2021, 11:41:20 AM
NBA players have a right not to get vaccinated.  NBA employers have a right not to have unvaccinated people in their workplace.  I don't think Kyrie, Wiggins, Isaac can work from home ...  Those guys just need to find another job that'll pay them $20M a year.


I have little doubt these players will receive their full salaries


I had little doubt you would be wrong as you are nine times out of eight.

https://www.barrons.com/news/vaccine-holdouts-in-new-york-san-francisco-won-t-be-paid-nba-01632935408 (https://www.barrons.com/news/vaccine-holdouts-in-new-york-san-francisco-won-t-be-paid-nba-01632935408)

Good luck with that.

lol lol lol...you are, in fact, lol, the dumbass of the millenium, yet again (and that's no easy feat)!

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/32337594/nets-kyrie-irving-lose-millions-according-nba-nbpa-agreement-salary-reduction-unvaccinated-players-miss-games-due-local-covid-19-vaccine-mandates (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/32337594/nets-kyrie-irving-lose-millions-according-nba-nbpa-agreement-salary-reduction-unvaccinated-players-miss-games-due-local-covid-19-vaccine-mandates)

The NBA and the National Basketball Players Association have agreed to a reduction in pay of 1/91.6 of a player's salary for each game an unvaccinated player misses because of local COVID-19 vaccine mandates, sources told ESPN, a decision that stands to impact Brooklyn Nets star Kyrie Irving.....who, if unable to participate in home games, would lose roughly $380,000 per game -- which would become more than $15 million if he doesn't get vaccinated at any point this season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 04, 2021, 11:01:48 PM
Hey - good lookin out, Les
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 04, 2021, 11:47:12 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 04, 2021, 05:41:23 PM
And whom over Grimes, Joukabitis, McBride and Sims?

Jalen Johnson is a 6'8" athletic 19 year old, with defensive chops and some playmaking ability.  Intriguing and versatile.  Knix could use a switchable SF.
I don't know McBride or Grimes, but for now they are NYK 6th and 7th G's.
(Kemba/Rose/Fournier/Burks/RJB/IQ).

Knix could have had Johnson + one of Grimes/McBride.
Cam Thomas seems like a bigtime scorer.

We'll see how it goes.
But appears that McBride and Grimes are going to have a tough time seeing any action.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 05, 2021, 02:19:22 AM
McBride and Grimes are our two best perimeter defenders right now along with being heady and efficient guards when our team has the ball.

I think JJ will be pretty good but I think depth ahead of him might force him our someone else ahead of him (Hunter or Reddish) out of Atlanta.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 05, 2021, 06:45:09 AM
With #19 & #21, Knix could have tried to move up. 
Not sure who they should have targeted in that #10-15 range.
And with a deep draft, maybe two picks are better.

Giddey seemed like he could be around late lottery, but went #6.  Davion Mitchell at #9 would have been another target that went above the likely #12-15 range the Knix might have been able to move up into.  Duarte?  Bouknight?

I didn't pay attention at all to the lottery picks since the Knicks were drafting 19 & 21.
So it's harder than usual to play my Top 10 bust game.  Plus in a deep draft the Top 10 can be fairly strong. 

#10 Zaire Williams.  I'm not fond of tall skinny wings. And he shot poorly at Stanford.
Athletic, but can he develop toughness and make shots?
Bust potential.  Probably a few years before he is NBA ready.

#8 Franz Wagner?  Does he have game?  Will ORL ever develop anybody?

Kuminga turns 19 tomorrow.  So who knows ... and based on what?  While playing for a competing vet team ...

Giddey a risk, but seems to have multiple skills.  Intriguing.
Mobley is raw if you want to look Top 5.  Raw Bigs have the highest flop rate ...

Guess that's all I have to go with.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 05, 2021, 09:02:29 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 05, 2021, 06:45:09 AM
With #19 & #21, Knix could have tried to move up. 
Not sure who they should have targeted in that #10-15 range.


DID try.  All reports stated.

Yes.  Likely the much needed sniper was the target if not the overall wunderkind.

Got Sniper Lite with some hands and smarts in QGrimes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 05, 2021, 09:05:28 AM
Lowery debut in Miami

74 first half points vs Hawks

I strangely wasn't ready to watch last night, flipping back to WWE after a few minutes.

Better that Knicks get my full attention first.

Hearing now that Mo Bamba played well for Magic
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 05, 2021, 09:22:35 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 04, 2021, 11:01:48 PM
Hey - good lookin out, Les

Pleasure mine
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 05, 2021, 09:32:47 AM
Magic PG situation

FULTZ missed the game
ANTHONY came off bench (16-6-6)
SUGGS started (9-4-3)

Magic also started FRANZ Wagner over brother Moritz
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 05, 2021, 09:33:34 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on October 05, 2021, 09:22:35 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 04, 2021, 11:01:48 PM
Hey - good lookin out, Les

Pleasure mine

Heh

In time you can check your work
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 05, 2021, 01:01:17 PM
ORL has an odd team:

Markelle Fultz   Jalen Suggs   Gary Harris   Jonathan Isaac    Wendell Carter

Cole Anthony   R.J. Hampton   Terrence Ross   Chuma Okeke   Mohamed Bamba

Michael Carter-Williams   ETwuan Moore  Mo & Les Wagner  Robin Lopez

Hassani Gravett     Ignas Brazdeikis  Admiral Schofield  Jon Teske

some great names at the end of the bench ...

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 05, 2021, 01:13:16 PM
Who's their best player?

How many legit starters do they have?

Who takes the last shot?

Which Magician would you want on your team?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 05, 2021, 01:17:11 PM
Leave those guys in Orlando to fulfill their doormat duty.

Trey Murphy III would have been a worthwhile trade up target.

Meanwhile, I am quite happy with our draft.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 05, 2021, 01:31:42 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 05, 2021, 01:13:16 PM
Who's their best player?

How many legit starters do they have?

Who takes the last shot?

Which Magician would you want on your team?

I like Ross and Harris.

Best player?

In time no doubt - SUGGS

NOW?  Could be SUGGS as well

Who is the Knicks best player?

ahhhhhh... see what I did there?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 05, 2021, 02:00:40 PM
First Kings starting 5

Fox with Haliburton
Barnes, Holmes, Bagley
Title: Moving On Up
Post by: chipstern on October 05, 2021, 02:21:44 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 05, 2021, 01:17:11 PM
Leave those guys in Orlando to fulfill their doormat duty.

Trey Murphy III would have been a worthwhile trade up target.

Meanwhile, I am quite happy with our draft.

Me, too. 

As per Bo, coulda moved up? 

Like, DUH, the Knicks surely tried.  Much as WWW [World Wide Wes] campaigned hard for Immanuel Quickley, apparently Chris Duarte was the girl of his dreams this time out.  Great size at 6'6", can defend multiple positions, drop dead shooter.  He and Bouknight were very much on our radar. 

Trey Murphy at 6'8" also with size and stroke.  Went at #17.  If he had been there at #19, don't think we woulda made the Charlotte trade. 

And yes, Bo, Cam Thomas is a scorer.  So is Quentin Grimes for crying out loud.  Can't draft everyone. 
Title: Meanwhile...
Post by: chipstern on October 05, 2021, 02:24:39 PM
Meanwhile, people were scratching their heads when the Raptors passed on Suggs to pick Scottie Barnes at #4. 

Well, GUESS FUCKING WHAT. 

The 3&D of Bo's dreams.  Barnes is a beast. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 05, 2021, 02:35:45 PM
Yeah - serious player

I like Kuminga too

My top guy was SUGGS
Title: Mr. heh (and lol) strikes YET again #43,827
Post by: carlos123 on October 05, 2021, 04:30:01 PM
Quote from: chamAAcocartero8 on October 05, 2021, 09:33:34 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on October 05, 2021, 09:22:35 AM
Quote from: chamAcocartero8 on October 04, 2021, 11:01:48 PM
Hey - good lookin out, Les

Pleasure mine

Heh

In time you can check your work

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLWDWClzFZzeXctKJuxzagN1j46e6zq2EAoiDDmPh038jX2OPXG_5aykUoA1OBqeSIavC_nq-S_O1Q2hSePOp0ur9dZQcXJ7dXFFzjfZv9Cmigq01nVn4CLQyov_QFrvbrz_63zEXtCipUQmqm7n1UkT=w626-h570-no?authuser=0)

"heh is my best argument".
  Chamaco J. Cartero
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 05, 2021, 06:13:03 PM
Trey Murphy at 6'8" also with size and stroke.  Went at #17.  If he had been there at #19, don't think we woulda made the Charlotte trade.


-  Murphy had the Allan Houston line his first time out


21 points
0 assists


Not sure I am interested
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 05, 2021, 10:03:18 PM
Our game plan seems to involve never turning the ball over at all. So far so good, though all I got was the play by play. The NBA has added enough detail to make it more followable than previous iterations (type of shot & from how far out).

Taj and Jericho held down the front line.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 05, 2021, 11:11:54 PM
http://mobile.twitter.com/SBondyNYDN/status/1445508167861891072?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1445508167861891072%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftheknickswall.com%2Fknicks-pulverize-pacers-in-preseason-opener%2F (http://mobile.twitter.com/SBondyNYDN/status/1445508167861891072?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1445508167861891072%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftheknickswall.com%2Fknicks-pulverize-pacers-in-preseason-opener%2F)

Thibs has a plan and has communicated it to us so we can all chill the fuck out.

Good move, coach.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 05, 2021, 11:25:44 PM
Quickley looks like he is going to keep McBride and Grimes situational for a bit. His work looks to be paying off.

Sims is situational as well, but he stepped up and mostly made the most of the situation.

Knox and Obi both seem more at home as well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 05, 2021, 11:26:21 PM
It's incredible to come back to the forum and read even more carping about the draft.

I mean, Jesus.

I don't know why folks get off on endless hyper-analysis and prognostications, but you know what......

they're actually playing ball again!

And we're looking good! I'm gonna enjoy the ride!

(fuck the Nets!)

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 05, 2021, 11:34:30 PM
Nothing to really analyze tonight, except.......


FOURNIER is going to shoot a whole lot.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 06, 2021, 12:36:58 AM
Quote from: elephant on October 05, 2021, 11:26:21 PM
It's incredible to come back to the forum and read even more carping about the draft.

I mean, Jesus.

I don't know why folks get off on endless hyper-analysis and prognostications, but you know what......

they're actually playing ball again!

And we're looking good! I'm gonna enjoy the ride!

(fuck the Nets!)

Bo may have been carping about the draft. I was giving props to our young vets playing to earn trust and minutes. I was praising Sims and those guys for playing well. I have no worries about the other guys. It is nice to see the balance and production this game from our guards, Kemba, Rose, and Quick, wings RJ, Fournier, and Burks, fowards Randle, Obi, and Knox, and Bigs Taj and Jericho.

There are still some interesting camp battles ahead, but I really like how things are shaping up so far.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 06, 2021, 09:07:39 AM
I i's incredible to come back to the forum and read even more carping about the draft.

I mean, Jesus.

Yeah, like we did with Barrett, now a key member of our possible top 4 East team.  And Quickley as well.  And Knox - and Frank - whose failures have set us back.  What does any of the analysis mean?

While in retrospect seeing what we do thus far in preseason we may have passed on some players who would have better suited us long term...

Why the hell wouldnt we be talking about the picks, Elephant?

I have put my trust in this management group.  But no need to be hands off when discussing improvements to the team
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on October 06, 2021, 12:07:30 PM
Thibs is one hellovuh coach but sheeshh let the youngins get their feet wet, he run a tight ship, short lineup and as good as Grimes and Mcbride looked in summer league, I don't think we are going to see them much this season.  I was hyped about the youngins.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 06, 2021, 12:32:03 PM
Often coaches these days will go with a different "active" group in Game 2 of a preseason than Game 1

Short of injured guys I would expect to see most that did not play yesterday do so next time out
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 06, 2021, 12:45:35 PM
Quote from: jaqdavisone on October 06, 2021, 12:07:30 PM
Thibs is one hellovuh coach but sheeshh let the youngins get their feet wet, he run a tight ship, short lineup and as good as Grimes and Mcbride looked in summer league, I don't think we are going to see them much this season.  I was hyped about the youngins.

Good to see you post, Jaq. Hope you are well.

The thing for me is that now having seen it I can say there are ten guys in front of the rooks who are damn good, put the work in and are ready to play.

My hope for this year is that the Knicks actually utilize the GLeague for Deuce and Grimes as well as Sims and Simms, who I expect to be our two-way players.

For that to happen, management would have to see more value in sending them down for run than in giving them more time to sponge off our vets and core coaching staff.

Do not expect big minutes or big numbers from the rooks this year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 06, 2021, 01:12:09 PM
Nope.

Thibs has his focus on one thing. Winning game 1. Game 2. Then game 3.

A lot of run for the rooks in preseason not really relevant to that objective. Integrating Kemba & Fournier is. Polishing second unit w/Quickley, Burks & Toppin, yes.

That said there will surely be ankles, knees, rest days and opportunities.

What a joy last night was..and not just because of our boys, but because the foul hunting was nowhere to be found, the unnatural perversions by which Harden tried to destroy the beautiful game, clearly on the way out. Hopefully the new rules stick.


**** And wow what a difference ZERO MINUTES of putrid Payton makes. Wow. Wow. Wow. 48 minutes of pleasure coming up 82 times!

Title: Well Now....
Post by: chipstern on October 06, 2021, 01:13:23 PM
Well Now...

THAT Was FUN

Everyone played well. 

There was coherence.  There was continuity. 

Intimations of progress up and down the rotation, individually and as a team. 

Off the top of what passes for my head, our STARTERS

KEMBA:  Man.  Rivers.  Harper.  Marbury.  Kidd.  Can't remember seeing a PG of that caliber playing for the Knicks.  That drive to the hoop.  That short pull up pull up jumper.  That long pull up jumper.  That feed to RJ for a short jumper.  That gorgeous fast break floater to a cutting Gibson.  That serene, joyous confidence he exudes.  A commanding presence. 

ROSE:  Shooting a little off, but man, when he first hit the floor, was like he was shot out of a cannon.  Thought McBride's comments about his mentors were interesting, about Kemba using the angles, and Rose using pace.  Each of them getting like 20 minutes seems like the plan going forward, and if IQ can keep growing at the point better still. 

JULIUS:  Took a little while to get in rhythm, but while no one was looking, boom, 20-9-2 with two steals and a block in 30 minutes...letting the game come to him more than last season.  With Kemba AND dRose, seems so much more relaxed and purposeful not being tasked on so many possessions functioning as a point forward. 

FOURNIER:  As advertised.  Hitting that first corner three got my blood boiling.  But was pesky on defense, and a canny facilitator who drew coverage for his own offensive forays and in creating for others.  He made a juke in the corner, down the baseline, drew coverage, and a lovely handoff for an easy hoop, to Julius as I recall. 

RJ: Hitting that first three off of a Kemba feed was sweet.  Sweeter still was seeing that he had worked on his midrange pick and pops and pull ups.  Needs more work with his right hand and in finishing at the rack, but looked like a vet out there, 17-3-2, 7-of-14 and 3-of-6 from trey, more efficient, projecting more confidence and letting the game come to him. 

BENCH

IQ:  Our emerging Sixth Man of the bench with 6 boards and 7 assists.  Seems to be getting it.  That lovely feed to a cutting Knox.  Better still, I was talking to the TV about, "Hey Q, stop automatically looking for your shot.  Give up the ball, and just possibly, you'll get it right back for a better shot in rhythm." Which he proceeded to do at the top right of the key, handing off to Jericho, who popped it right back and Quick made his move, nailed a pull back jumper. 

TAJ:  How old is he again [36....seriously]. Hitting threes, facilitating ball movement, finishing at the rack, defense, boarding, mentoring Obi, Jericho, Mitchell, Kevin [14-6-3-1-1].  Thank goodness Omari Spellman had an eating disorder. 

JERICHO:  Don't want to get too fucking giddy, but damn, as raw as he is, and some coverage mistakes notwithstanding, he looks like he belongs out there, and really competes, whether on lobs or put backs.  Once he begins to figure out how to more effectively block out for defensive and offensive boards, and how to more efficiently deploy his athleticism.  He has the hops and is an intelligent, chill young man.  Dolan must've offered up burnt offerings to Jahweh for us to cop him at #58 off of the #2 we purloined from Philly in the Brazdeikis/Rivers transaction. 

KEVIN: Knew instinctively that his first trey would be a brick, but did things other than just pull up for corner jumpers.  The two man game with IQ was a thing of beauty.  Looks more cut and muscled.  Glad to see him competing, getting some of Burks minutes, at least for the moment. 

BURKS: Was 2-3 from three, some nice defensive awareness and a positive force in 18 minutes as our swiss army knife.  Looked sharp, relaxed and in late season form. 

OBI: Okay, his much vaunted three point shooting still a work in progress, but was a presence on D, and his motor and power in transition and on the blocks was on display with 10-5 in 14 minutes.  The confidence with which he made multiple jukes and spins backing his man in for a BIG BOY post up/lay-in made my skin tingle at his aggression and power.  THAT'S the MF Leon Rose thought he was drafting at #8. 

They Call Me MISTER THIBS: [Thanks, Clyde.] Pleased to see going with a solid two-tiered 10-Man Rotation, and other than Julius' 30 minutes, keeping court time at a reassuringly low burnout rate which had us playing decent D [allowed too many open threes], with nice pace, movement and efficiency on offensive, really taking care of the rock [only 3 turnovers], with 26 assists and hitting 22-24 FTs. 

OVERALL: Kemba and Evan look like good fits, seemingly right in the flow of things, and the continuity of having our core of Julius, RJ, Rose, Taj, Burks, Obi, IQ and [in due time] Nerlens and Mitchell returning looks to pay competitive dividends.  Didn't hurt to have summer league for our puppies, and a couple of months of Tarrytown practice, individually and as a team, so our core yute, RJ and Obi and IQ, have a better idea of where to put their work, and how to get better and earn Thibs' trust. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 06, 2021, 01:21:33 PM
Free throw shooting - check

3 pt shooting - BONK!

Quickley and Rose - 10 assists
Kemba and Evan - 5

Strongest player, given expectation - Sims
Weakest - Rose
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 06, 2021, 01:37:36 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on October 06, 2021, 01:12:09 PM
Nope.

Thibs has his focus on one thing. Winning game 1. Game 2. Then game 3.

A lot of run for the rooks in preseason not really relevant to that objective. Integrating Kemba & Fournier is. Polishing second unit w/Quickley, Burks & Toppin, yes.

That said there will surely be ankles, knees, rest days and opportunities.

What a joy last night was..and not just because of our boys, but because the foul hunting was nowhere to be found, the unnatural perversions by which Harden tried to destroy the beautiful game, clearly on the way out. Hopefully the new rules stick.


**** And wow what a difference ZERO MINUTES of putrid Payton makes. Wow. Wow. Wow. 48 minutes of pleasure coming up 82 times!

Agree.  Thibs' coaching signature is very purposeful.  And yes, the much maligned Elfrid.  Some respect.  Once a Knick and all that.  Hey, he gave his all for the cause, and actually played really well the first half of the season before losing his confidence and that of Thibs, his biggest booster. 

YUTE? 

Yute will be served, Knicks fans.  All in good time. 

But moving forward, Leon Rose & Scott Perry's vision of accumulating draft assets, carefully guarding our cap space, reasonable contracts, and a balance of vets, young vets and PASSIONATE PUPPIES appears to be bearing fruit. 

Don't want to get too giddy, and am looking forward to how we bounce back from our first ass whupping, and how we compete with Trae Bien & His Birds Of Prey. 

But somehow...SOMEHOW. 

In progressing from the Fall of 2020 to the Fall of 2021:

Elfrid Payton-Frank Nitiliknia-Dennis Smith

to

Kemba Walker-Derrick Rose-Immanuel Quickley-Miles McBride

When I click me heels, I'll be in RUCKER PARK.

It would appear that ActualFactual NEW YORK HOOPS IS BACK, y'all. 

PS: The drafting of McBride, his good showing in Summer League [and the clear affection of Thibs], the MONTY HALL WHAT'S BEHIND DOOR NUMBER THREE arrival of the once and future KEMBA, a good showing in summer league by our four-five years younger #34 Pick/EuroStash PG Joukabitis, the evolution of IQ, and Luca's arrival in Tarrytown with his water logged ankle in a walking boot, spelled doom for our don't cry for me Argentinian, Senor Vildoza [who got to pocket like a million and a half bucks after paying off his buyout]. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 06, 2021, 01:46:56 PM
Quickley was with us fall of '20 but good post, Stern-a-la
Title: Can't post
Post by: carlos123 on October 06, 2021, 02:35:20 PM
Again
Lets try: No dice
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 06, 2021, 02:47:36 PM
Been muzzled

Heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 06, 2021, 03:00:55 PM
More ESPN idiocy

https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/06/entertainment/sage-steele-espn-comments-cec/index.html
Title: Pinch Myself
Post by: chipstern on October 06, 2021, 03:43:30 PM
Still can't quite comprehend that Kemba Walker AND Derrick Rose are our point guards. 

Watched some highlights [can't help myself...been in the hoops dessert for so long, reading dipshit bloggers such as Brad Dressler concocting stoopidass trades dumping Obi Toppin, etcetera], and man oh FUCKING MAN, is Kemba ever a cool customer.  His vision, the way he gets everyone great looks, how he can score inside and out, off of the dribble and pull up, in Earl Monroe AND Steph Curry country...just the joy he brings to the game. 

People talk of him mentoring Deuce. 

Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeetttttttttttttt...

He is a born leader.  One lousy preseason game and you can already feel the collective difference.  On EVERYONE, from 1-20, to the coaches, to the FANS. 

DAMN

PS: That Evan Fournier baseline drive and dish was to Taj Gibson, who caught and juked and gathered himself for a layup.  AH, THE JOYS OF EASY BASKETS. 

PPS: VERNELL FOURNIER, the great New Orleans drummer, and his legendary beat on Ahmad Jamal's "Poinciana" with bassist Israel Crosby from LIVE AT THE PERSHING in 1958

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0e2G32f3IU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0e2G32f3IU)
Title: Re: Mr. heh (and lol) strikes YET again #43,828
Post by: carlos123 on October 06, 2021, 03:43:44 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on October 05, 2021, 04:30:01 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on October 06, 2021, 02:47:36 PM
Been muzzled

Heh

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLWDWClzFZzeXctKJuxzagN1j46e6zq2EAoiDDmPh038jX2OPXG_5aykUoA1OBqeSIavC_nq-S_O1Q2hSePOp0ur9dZQcXJ7dXFFzjfZv9Cmigq01nVn4CLQyov_QFrvbrz_63zEXtCipUQmqm7n1UkT=w626-h570-no?authuser=0)

"heh is my best argument".
  Chamaco J. Cartero

Can repost
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 06, 2021, 03:50:33 PM
I never liked Sage Steel.  Instant channel change.

Some of her greatest misses:

When she yanked the microphone away during a celebrity game because the famous person wouldn't just "stick to sports":

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/sage-steele-nba-all-star-game-singer-cut-off-espn-celebrity-game/md8tvz0i4w4u1r46q908tdmsc (https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/sage-steele-nba-all-star-game-singer-cut-off-espn-celebrity-game/md8tvz0i4w4u1r46q908tdmsc)

When she complained about being inconvenienced by protesters at LAX protesting Trumps. 'muslim ban':

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/01/sage-steele-instagram-airport-espn (https://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/01/sage-steele-instagram-airport-espn)

Now she is complaining that Obama isn't white enough and female sportscasters are asking for it.

She hates that she is half-black.  Her white mother made sure of it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 06, 2021, 04:16:36 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 06, 2021, 03:50:33 PM
I never liked Sage Steel.  Instant channel change.

Some of her greatest misses:

When she yanked the microphone away during a celebrity game because the famous person wouldn't just "stick to sports":

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/sage-steele-nba-all-star-game-singer-cut-off-espn-celebrity-game/md8tvz0i4w4u1r46q908tdmsc (https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/sage-steele-nba-all-star-game-singer-cut-off-espn-celebrity-game/md8tvz0i4w4u1r46q908tdmsc)

When she complained about being inconvenienced by protesters at LAX protesting Trumps. 'muslim ban':

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/01/sage-steele-instagram-airport-espn (https://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/01/sage-steele-instagram-airport-espn)

Now she is complaining that Obama isn't white enough and female sportscasters are asking for it.

She hates that she is half-black.  Her white mother made sure of it.

Fox News Beckons.  She can sit on Tucker Carlson's face.   
Title: We've Come A LONG WAY, Baby
Post by: chipstern on October 06, 2021, 04:46:04 PM
League extends suspension of random testing for marijuana
Title: KyRIE
Post by: chipstern on October 06, 2021, 04:49:59 PM
Color Me Confounded.

Are the Nyets going to allow him to be a part time player? 

And to undermine their championship aspirations in the name of his Flat Earth Philosophy.

2021-2022 $35,053,700, 2022-23 $36,647,050 [Player Option]
Title: Re: We've Come A LONG WAY, Baby
Post by: Kam on October 06, 2021, 05:32:21 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 06, 2021, 04:46:04 PM
League extends suspension of random testing for marijuana

Earlier this year NY State and NJ both passed a law making it illegal for employers in the state to reject a job applicant on the basis of a marijuana screening.   Many companies have dropped the screening completely.  Screening is still legal but any prospective employee cannot be discriminated against solely on the basis of a failed marijuana screening.

My buddy was just hired at Fordham and they tested him but not for MaryJane.

Chase bank has also stated they don't test for it.

If you work in NY but work for a company that is headquartered in a state without a similar law then you may not be so lucky.
Title: Re: We've Come A LONG WAY, Baby
Post by: chipstern on October 06, 2021, 05:35:24 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 06, 2021, 05:32:21 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 06, 2021, 04:46:04 PM
League extends suspension of random testing for marijuana

Earlier this year NY State and NJ both passed a law making it illegal for employers in the state to reject a job applicant on the basis of a marijuana screening.   Many companies have dropped the screening completely.  Screening is still legal but any prospective employee cannot be discriminated against solely on the basis of a failed marijuana screening.

My buddy was just hired at Fordham and they tested him but not for MaryJane.

Chase bank has also stated they don't test for it.

If you work in NY but work for a company that is headquartered in a state without a similar law then you may not be so lucky.

The NYC Taxi & Limousine Commission just stopped screening for marijuana in a driver's annual drug screen. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 06, 2021, 05:51:19 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 06, 2021, 03:50:33 PM
I never liked Sage Steel.  Instant channel change.

Some of her greatest misses:

When she yanked the microphone away during a celebrity game because the famous person wouldn't just "stick to sports":

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/sage-steele-nba-all-star-game-singer-cut-off-espn-celebrity-game/md8tvz0i4w4u1r46q908tdmsc (https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/sage-steele-nba-all-star-game-singer-cut-off-espn-celebrity-game/md8tvz0i4w4u1r46q908tdmsc)

When she complained about being inconvenienced by protesters at LAX protesting Trumps. 'muslim ban':

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/01/sage-steele-instagram-airport-espn (https://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/01/sage-steele-instagram-airport-espn)

Now she is complaining that Obama isn't white enough and female sportscasters are asking for it.

She hates that she is half-black.  Her white mother made sure of it.

Not black enough for Champion and Hill, who are outcasts

heh
Title: Re: We've Come A LONG WAY, Baby
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 06, 2021, 05:53:58 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 06, 2021, 05:35:24 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 06, 2021, 05:32:21 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 06, 2021, 04:46:04 PM
League extends suspension of random testing for marijuana

Earlier this year NY State and NJ both passed a law making it illegal for employers in the state to reject a job applicant on the basis of a marijuana screening.   Many companies have dropped the screening completely.  Screening is still legal but any prospective employee cannot be discriminated against solely on the basis of a failed marijuana screening.

My buddy was just hired at Fordham and they tested him but not for MaryJane.

Chase bank has also stated they don't test for it.

If you work in NY but work for a company that is headquartered in a state without a similar law then you may not be so lucky.

The NYC Taxi & Limousine Commission just stopped screening for marijuana in a driver's annual drug screen.

8% more likely to get COVID if you use pot
Title: Re: KyRIE
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 06, 2021, 05:55:51 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 06, 2021, 04:49:59 PM
Color Me Confounded.

Are the Nyets going to allow him to be a part time player? 

And to undermine their championship aspirations in the name of his Flat Earth Philosophy.

2021-2022 $35,053,700, 2022-23 $36,647,050 [Player Option]

Sure

Get the shot before the playoffs

Bruce Brown needs the minutes

But wait and see like everyone else
Title: Re: We've Come A LONG WAY, Baby
Post by: Kam on October 06, 2021, 06:21:23 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 06, 2021, 05:53:58 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 06, 2021, 05:35:24 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 06, 2021, 05:32:21 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 06, 2021, 04:46:04 PM
League extends suspension of random testing for marijuana

Earlier this year NY State and NJ both passed a law making it illegal for employers in the state to reject a job applicant on the basis of a marijuana screening.   Many companies have dropped the screening completely.  Screening is still legal but any prospective employee cannot be discriminated against solely on the basis of a failed marijuana screening.

My buddy was just hired at Fordham and they tested him but not for MaryJane.

Chase bank has also stated they don't test for it.

If you work in NY but work for a company that is headquartered in a state without a similar law then you may not be so lucky.

The NYC Taxi & Limousine Commission just stopped screening for marijuana in a driver's annual drug screen.

8% more likely to get COVID if you use pot

Maybe if you're still passing the blunt.   Get your own, jones.
Title: Chamaco Strategy
Post by: carlos123 on October 06, 2021, 06:38:48 PM
Chamaco Strategy against COVID:

No vaccine AND no MaryJane.

Not sure Kyrie follows the same guidance.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 06, 2021, 07:00:17 PM
What makes you think I am not vaccinated, Asno?
Title: Re: We've Come A LONG WAY, Baby
Post by: Yankguy1 on October 06, 2021, 07:36:53 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 06, 2021, 05:53:58 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 06, 2021, 05:35:24 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 06, 2021, 05:32:21 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 06, 2021, 04:46:04 PM
League extends suspension of random testing for marijuana

Earlier this year NY State and NJ both passed a law making it illegal for employers in the state to reject a job applicant on the basis of a marijuana screening.   Many companies have dropped the screening completely.  Screening is still legal but any prospective employee cannot be discriminated against solely on the basis of a failed marijuana screening.

My buddy was just hired at Fordham and they tested him but not for MaryJane.

Chase bank has also stated they don't test for it.

If you work in NY but work for a company that is headquartered in a state without a similar law then you may not be so lucky.

The NYC Taxi & Limousine Commission just stopped screening for marijuana in a driver's annual drug screen.

8% more likely to get COVID if you use pot
Still waiting for the link to this "fact," which you've posted on at least two different threads by now.   And "per CNN" doesn't rate.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 06, 2021, 08:22:59 PM
And when I give it to you - what then?

Google is your friend.  Do the work.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 06, 2021, 08:27:07 PM
Kid, how are you doing on finding a cure for your personal affliction of being an asshole?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 06, 2021, 08:41:19 PM
YG actually thinks I would lie about something I saw on CNN

Quite sad - and could be frustrating.  But he's not the guy I once respected, so no biggee.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 06, 2021, 08:41:58 PM
Yank must mostly be read only here

Creepy shit.
Title: Chamaco speaks Spanish!
Post by: carlos123 on October 06, 2021, 08:58:47 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on October 06, 2021, 07:00:17 PM
Q - What makes you think I am not vaccinated, Asno?

A - Your ideology and your allegiances.

Do you use pot? You know, the second part of your strategy.
Title: BoD--Handicapper Par Excellence
Post by: chipstern on October 07, 2021, 12:25:04 AM
Fox, Halburton

Mitchell, Hield all getting 20 + Plus minutes tonight. 

Davion Mitchell 13-3-3-1 on 5-7/3-3. 

Kings putting a hurtin' on the Clippers. 

Keep your day job, homie.   
Title: PS
Post by: chipstern on October 07, 2021, 12:32:38 AM
Happy with McBride at #36, but in the interests of full disclosure, I was hoping we would take Devion's back court mate, Jared Butler, who fell into the Jazz's laps at #40. 

Concerns about his heart. 

Had a festive night. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 07, 2021, 04:58:58 AM
I like that they started Fox-TyH-Tristan
But no idea if TyH and Tristan will be reg season starters.

Good if Dav Mitchell is the fulltime backup PG. 
Because I don't think TyH is a PG, but more a combo G/wing who can handle and pass.
A complementary ballhandler/facilitator.

Fox/Mitchell with a 35/13 minute split.
And if Mitchell is up for it, a few more minutes in a 3 G alignment.

Forgot about Jared Butler.  Could have been a good high risk/reward pick in the 2nd round.
No question about his talent, but the health woes.  Perhaps a lesser version of the Porter Jr. saga ...

I do like that NYK got their preferred targets.  I just don't see them getting playing time this year.  One gamble on a Jalen Johnson or Jared Butler -- a guy with starting-level talent -- woulda been nice ...

One theory is Knix are stocking up on depth in order to pull off a trade for a star in the next year or two.   Possibilities as of now: Simmons, Lillard, Beal.  Who knows who will be available over the next year or two.
Title: It's called "the plan'
Post by: lesterluv on October 07, 2021, 08:12:13 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 07, 2021, 04:58:58 AM

One theory is Knix are stocking up on depth in order to pull off a trade for a star in the next year or two.   Possibilities as of now: Simmons, Lillard, Beal.  Who knows who will be available over the next year or two.

I'd say slightly more than "one theory" as everybody knows it and Leon Rose has said it...:)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 07, 2021, 09:19:54 AM
22 and 4 for Jared Butler who fell to second round and was available to us when we took McBride

https://www.deseret.com/2021/10/6/22713950/utah-jazz-twitter-is-very-excited-about-jared-butler-nba

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 07, 2021, 09:32:44 AM
I see Bo and Chip had already got to the Butler stat line.  Nice.

And thanks for the Davion line

Thompson didn't start game 1 for Kings
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 07, 2021, 11:28:41 AM
What do you have to add to Haliburton/Bagley to get Simmons?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 07, 2021, 02:08:07 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 07, 2021, 11:28:41 AM
What do you have to add to Haliburton/Bagley to get Simmons?

PHI has to get a PG in return.

How about Fox & Bagley for Simmons?

Fox is a dynamic scorer.
PHI is loaded at the wings, but could use a quality backup PF/C.

The Fox/Hield combo has been a loser.
Simmons would be the SACkings PG and set a defensive tone.
Kings need a shake up. 

Simmons - TyH - Hield - Barnes - Tristan or Holmes
Davion -  T Davis - Mo Hark - [Simmons] - Holmes

Need a stop?  Run a defensive lineup of:
Davion - TyH - Barnes - Simmons - Tristan

PHI:
Fox/Maxey
Curry/Shake/Korkmaz
Green/Thybulle/Niang
Tobias/ Bagley/[Niang]
Embiid/Drummond/[Bagley]

I think this is my favorite Simmons deal yet ...
Title: Re: It's called "the plan'
Post by: Kam on October 07, 2021, 02:19:39 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on October 07, 2021, 08:12:13 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 07, 2021, 04:58:58 AM

One theory is Knix are stocking up on depth in order to pull off a trade for a star in the next year or two.   Possibilities as of now: Simmons, Lillard, Beal.  Who knows who will be available over the next year or two.

I'd say slightly more than "one theory" as everybody knows it and Leon Rose has said it...:)

I'd like to go though the season without making a trade.  First time in years I can say that.
Title: Re: It's called "the plan'
Post by: chipstern on October 07, 2021, 03:01:54 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 07, 2021, 02:19:39 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on October 07, 2021, 08:12:13 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 07, 2021, 04:58:58 AM

One theory is Knix are stocking up on depth in order to pull off a trade for a star in the next year or two.   Possibilities as of now: Simmons, Lillard, Beal.  Who knows who will be available over the next year or two.

I'd say slightly more than "one theory" as everybody knows it and Leon Rose has said it...:)

I'd like to go though the season without making a trade.  First time in years I can say that.

Thank YOU. 

The Adulation Of The BIG FISH Is Repugnant & Self-Immolating

Marbury

Curry

Bargnani

There are NO SAVIORS. 

I like the way we are building, and yes, short contracts, draft assets, youth, all potential SHINY OBJECT dangles. 

Meanwhile, we have a team. 

Patience.  Prudence.  Planning. 
Title: [Cough]
Post by: chipstern on October 07, 2021, 03:04:31 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 07, 2021, 02:08:07 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 07, 2021, 11:28:41 AM
What do you have to add to Haliburton/Bagley to get Simmons?

PHI has to get a PG in return.

How about Fox & Bagley for Simmons?

Fox is a dynamic scorer.
PHI is loaded at the wings, but could use a quality backup PF/C.

The Fox/Hield combo has been a loser.
Simmons would be the SACkings PG and set a defensive tone.
Kings need a shake up. 

Simmons - TyH - Hield - Barnes - Tristan or Holmes
Davion -  T Davis - Mo Hark - [Simmons] - Holmes

Need a stop?  Run a defensive lineup of:
Davion - TyH - Barnes - Simmons - Tristan

PHI:
Fox/Maxey
Curry/Shake/Korkmaz
Green/Thybulle/Niang
Tobias/ Bagley/[Niang]
Embiid/Drummond/[Bagley]

I think this is my favorite Simmons deal yet ...

There is NO WAY on God's Green Earth that the Kings trade Fox. 

You blaming Fox for the Kings woes? 

That's rich. 

And yet though he be the source of the Kings woes, he translates to the answer to the Sixers' prayers.

Check. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 07, 2021, 03:39:46 PM
Traded for Debusschere  Monroe.  Oakley. 
Others, positively

Not always bad
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 07, 2021, 11:51:47 PM
Fox isn't much of a team player.  A weak defender.  Doesn't seem to be a leader too.
He's also plateau-ed.  And his 3-point % down as he ups the volume.
Yes, he is part of Sacto's woes.

Build around Simmons and TyH.
Improved D. 
Great deal for Sacto, imo.

Is Fox a savior for PHI?
He can score and push the pace.
Thybulle and Danny Green can help guard PG's as needed.  (also Maxey).
Use a defensive scheme to funnel things to Embiid.  Sacto hasn't had a rim deterrent during Fox's tenure.   And if Fox doesn't fit with his new friends, he is a movable asset.

Bagley a useful rotation piece, especially if Embiid misses time.
Might be the best deal '6ers can get.
Time's ticking on the Simmons mess there ...
And reports are they would prefer to ship Simmons out West.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 08, 2021, 09:11:13 AM
Thybulle and Danny Green can help guard PG's as needed.  (also Maxey).


- I have been a  big Mattise Thybule guy from the getgo - but he didnt show well in key spots last year.  Can he be a 2-way effective guy?  And is his D efficiency (see playoff loss) a bit overstated ?

Good guy to have around.  Tough guy to figure minutes for.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 08, 2021, 10:58:46 AM
I'd be very happy to run this season with what we got.

And maybe we will, but I'd be mildly surprised if we made it through without a significant move, and extremely so through the summer.

There is a plan. It's not get to ____X and sit and spin. It's not sit and watch 'em grow.

The brain trust means business. Keep upgrading. Win every trade. Get Better. Better. Better. Flex, depth and assets for when the big one calls, the medium one or the small.

But no worries, they seem quite talented. There will be no Eddy Curry2 or Bargnani2 or Melo2 fiascos.

Just don't get tooooooooo attached to stuff.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 08, 2021, 11:13:19 AM
Getting Carmelo Anthony was not a negative

But good post.

(Sweeeeet spin move by Melo the other night - will enjoy watching him with LAL)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 08, 2021, 11:19:09 AM
Regular season Thybulle looked devastating on D.  Playoffs were a learning experience.
He seems to have a decent stroke that can be developed.

At worst, he's Shumpert.  Likely akin to Marcus Smart, a pitbull defender you can rely on to make plays and up the intensity.  But he could up his game to become a genuine 3&D stud.  I'd say Danny Green is a pretty perfect mentor for Thybull.  I'm quite high on Thybulle.  And since PHI doesn't need to start him, he's in a real good spot.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 08, 2021, 11:58:25 AM
Fox isn't much of a team player.  A weak defender.  Doesn't seem to be a leader too.


Appreciate you, Bo - but these type posts are your true weakness
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 08, 2021, 12:37:12 PM
Succinct player evaluation.
I don't think Fox is an easy guy to play with or build around.
I'd like to hear alternative theories on why Sacto has been a mess the past few years.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 08, 2021, 01:49:14 PM
15 straight losing years


Last 2 years "demise"?

Mostly about Bagley
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 08, 2021, 11:18:07 PM
SacKings had a string of bad drafting:

2011: #7 pick Biyombo , immediately traded for Jimmer!

2012: #5 Thomas Robinson -- never found a role.  50% FT.  Out of the League at 25.
........... next two picks: Lillard & Harrison Barnes

2013: #7 Ben McLemore.  Weak draft.  McCollum was the pick here.  Giannis, Gobert were out there.

2014: # 8 Nick Stauskas. Talent drop-off after Randle at #7. Still plenty of solid role players.
And some starters: LaVine, Gary Harris, Capela, Utah Bogdanovic , Jurkic/Nurkic ...

2015: #6 Willie Cauley Stein. 
Weak draft, historically bad Top 10.  But Dev Booker and Myles Turner

5 years of picking between #5-8 wasted.  WCS and McLemore were below average starters for a couple years. Their lone Top 5 pick was a bust.  Looks like just guys without enough talent.

Then their drafting improved:
2016: #8 Marquese Chriss, traded immediately to PHX for Bogdanovic!
2017: #5 DeA Fox (talent drop off from 6-9)
2018: #2 Bagley (over Luca, Trae, Jaren Jax)
-- 2019: No 1st rounder --
2020: #12 TyH
2021: #9 Davion Mitchell

That's 4 out of 5 good drafts, and the mistake was a #2 pick, which you can't go too wrong with.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 09, 2021, 02:49:45 AM
Randle out for personal reasons.

ObiT and Knox expected to get long run.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 09, 2021, 11:59:21 AM
Yeah - second game roster - look will be totally different - as I posted

Nerlens/Mitch?  Any word?

KYRIE now able to practice, may play vs Sixers - interesting development as their facility is actually an office building of some sorts.

heh
Title: Mr. heh (and lol) strikes YET again #43,829
Post by: carlos123 on October 09, 2021, 02:44:13 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on October 09, 2021, 11:59:21 AM
Yeah - second game roster - look will be totally different - as I posted

Nerlens/Mitch?  Any word?

KYRIE now able to practice, may play vs Sixers - interesting development as their facility is actually an office building of some sorts.

heh

"heh is my best argument".
  Chamaco J. Cartero
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 09, 2021, 07:28:50 PM
No Randle.  No Mitch. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 09, 2021, 08:37:42 PM
Achiuwa eating up R Williams tonight

Scottie Barnes 8 assists halfway through third
Title: Raining Threes
Post by: chipstern on October 09, 2021, 10:24:30 PM
Knicks were 24-of-52 from beyond the arc. 

Kevin 4-5 in the first half [12-6-1 in 20 minutes]

Grimes 2-2 in Gar Barge Time. 

Obi 2-6, but 13-8 with an assist, a steal and 2 blocks. 

RJ 4-8

Quickley 3-5

Rose 3-3 with 15-4-8-2 in 19 minutes. 

(https://www.nydailynews.com/resizer/nZJ5CWxq6Yxnho6gMTv8lx-SSbU=/415x233/top/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/tronc/D6W7OTM5D5DSDFAYLFAIP2SOYQ.jpg)

The Knicks put up 27 assists. 

Good Lordy, we've got some depth, some talent and a PURPOSE.  My Name Is Mister Thibs wanted treys?  Motherfucker got treys. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 09, 2021, 10:32:08 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 09, 2021, 07:28:50 PM
No Randle.  No Mitch.

No problem.

The Wiz are still pretty weak.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 09, 2021, 10:40:02 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 09, 2021, 10:32:08 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 09, 2021, 07:28:50 PM
No Randle.  No Mitch.

No problem.

The Wiz are still pretty weak.

Well, they are better than they showed.  Without Hashimura.  And neither Dimwiddie nor Beal played starters' minutes.  But in all fairness to our crew, we didn't let Pope tee off on us. 

We took Toppin over Avdija.  So far so good. 

Harrell [18-10] and Jericho really went at each other, and while the vet schooled our puppy had Sims did not back down, with 13 boards, 7 points, and assist, 3 steals and a block. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 10, 2021, 04:09:14 AM
I wonder what the longest extension we can give Sims is. Whatever it is, we should offer it.

The Warriors just waived Langston Galloway. OAKAAK. Someone should pick him up, but it is nice the Knick do not have room.

Detroit next.

Onward

Title: The Balls Of Jericho
Post by: chipstern on October 10, 2021, 10:52:58 AM
Jericho has a ways to go, but he competes. 

Hard. 

Him and Harrell shared a hug at game's end. 

Still think it makes sense to 2-way him this season. 

We can still bring him up for 50 games and he can get minutes in the G League. 

Happy moment when he shocked Clyde with a baby hook, showing something other than the lob and load. 

Love his chill demeanor.  Thought he was bigger than 6'9" but that's Harrell-Adebayo country. 

Was happy for Kevin out there.  Let the charge up San Juan Hill. 

And Rose?  DAMN.  Life does have second acts.  Even third acts.

PS: Once again, QUENTIN GRIMES.  That was impressive.  Come in ice fucking cold and knock down a pair of threes like you are walking the dog. 

PPS: For XMAS Chip would like a healthy Mitchell, adding a baby hook and a short jumper to his muscle mass.  Something to confound Capella. 

PPPS: While Planet Earth was napping, RJ turned into a pretty good shooter.  Speaking of BALLS. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Zupzup on October 10, 2021, 10:53:50 AM
You look at DRose's stat line, and recalling his masterful performance last year. He is such a total pro. I hope his teammates are watching and listening.
Title: 10 Man Rotation + 1
Post by: chipstern on October 10, 2021, 11:29:35 AM
RJ: 18 PTS (4-8 3PT)
D-Rose: 15 PTS (3-3 3PT) | 8 AST
Obi: 13 PTS | 8 REB | 2 BLK
Evan: 14 PTS
KW: 6 PTS | 4 AST | 4 REB
Kev: 12 PTS (4-6 3PT)
Quick: 11 PTS | 3 AST
Jericho: 7 PTS | 13 REB | 3 STL
Taj: 8 PTS | 6 REB
Q-Dot: 6 PTS (2-2 3PT)
AB: 7 PTS | 4 REB
Title: Dixie/Strange Fruit
Post by: chipstern on October 10, 2021, 11:43:12 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 09, 2021, 02:49:45 AM
Randle out for personal reasons.

ObiT and Knox expected to get long run.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGQ_6dgIClE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGQ_6dgIClE)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 10, 2021, 10:13:28 PM
CBSports has 5 Knix in there Top 100 players:
Quote
Knicks
Top 100 players: Julius Randle (44), Kemba Walker (60), Evan Fournier (94), Derrick Rose (97), R.J. Barrett (100)
Though Fournier, Rose, RJB all the the very back end.

One of 6 teams with 5; POR the most with 6.
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-top-100-player-rankings-a-team-by-team-breakdown-blazers-with-most-for-2021-22-lakers-in-middle-of-pack/

Just looked at the team-by-team breakdown, not the whole 100 list.
But Seth Curry at #70?  Joe Harris #79?
Looks like they overvalue shooting.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 10, 2021, 11:04:10 PM
Joe Harris is quite quite good
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 11, 2021, 08:23:12 AM
David Aldridge:  I have written this on Simmons to Sac before, and the rationale still holds. Simmons is an elite defensive player. He is an elite passer. He has four years left on his deal. (He would have no problem going to Sacramento, I am told, so strong is his desire to get out of Philadelphia.) The Kings were historically bad defensively last season. Simmons would not be a savior, but with him and Fox and whichever one of Haliburton or Mitchell the Kings kept in this scenario, Sac would suddenly become a problem defensively, wildly switchable and able to get from defense to offense in a heartbeat. They would not shoot as good without Hield, but they had Hield last year and went 31-41. What are we talking about? Given his offensive limitations, Simmons would not be a savior wherever he goes, including Sacramento. (Of course, he would not be on the block if he did not have these limitations).  But he is the kind of talent the Kings would never have a chance of getting in free agency.  It would be a chancy deal for a new front office to make. but it would be worth the risk to me.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 11, 2021, 11:09:54 AM
I'm going to adjust my Knicks win total to 48 wins.
Title: Mister Thibs
Post by: chipstern on October 11, 2021, 11:30:52 AM
Saw a quote where They Call Me MISTER THIBS indicated that he would engage in some small ball this season with Julius at the 5, which is interesting, as it opens up possibilities of deploying Obi/Kevin at the 4, perhaps if Knox continues to drain those corner threes, Obi at the 4 and Kevin at the 3. 

Remains to be seen. 

That Mister Thibs is even consider triggering such an option, bespeaks his commitment to upping the pace/tempo of the game and significantly increasing the number of treys [helps to have a platoon of Kemba and Derrick to break down the D and make good reads]. 

And obviously, it signals a dramatic uptick in confidence in Obi Toppin's evolution on both sides of the ball, now that with a summer of hard work and purposeful coaching behind him, we are beginning to see the player Leon Rose committed to in his first draft as the Knicks Major Domo. 

PS: I think we are seeing the player Leon thought we were getting when he and the brain trust went all in on Evan Fournier over Reggie Bullock [not sure we were uninterested in bringing Bullock back, but in prioritizing Evan, that window of hesitation motivated Reggie to go with the Mavs, where his role as a catch and shoot specialist and potential minutes were more clearly defined, while in NY he would be looking for minutes next to/behind Evan and RJ as well as Burks].  His three point prowess, ability to create off of the dribble, and free throw shooting efficiency have all been as advertised, but for me, his most significant contribution has been to improved team coherence and efficiency, that is to say enhanced ball movement. moving without the ball, and in the RED HOLZMAN TRADITION, finding the open man.  Two plays REALLY stand out.  Against Indiana, Fournier was in the corner, well covered, and instead of forcing a three, he made his way down the bassline, drew the coverage under the basket, and shoveled a sweet pass to a rolling Gibson for a layup.  Against the Wizards, he got the ball at the top of the key, and began probing the defense, heading towards the basket, presumably looking for his short midrange jumper, but when the double came, he hit a cutting Obi on the baseline with a perfect pass for an emphatic rim rocker. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 11, 2021, 12:31:16 PM
Before Saturday night, the Knicks had never attempted more than 51 threes in a game and had never made more than 20 of those attempts. Against the Wizards, they did both, launching 52 bombs and landing 24.

It was preseason, so the previous records will still stand, but nonetheless, it
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 11, 2021, 02:19:22 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 11, 2021, 08:23:12 AM
Simmons would not be a savior, but with him and Fox and whichever one of Haliburton or Mitchell the Kings kept in this scenario, Sac would suddenly become a problem defensively, wildly switchable and able to get from defense to offense in a heartbeat. They would not shoot as good without Hield, but they had Hield last year and went 31-41.

So he thinks some sort of Hield + Haliburton package would be enough?

And doesn't mention the problematic nature of a Fox-Simmons pairing.
Both need the ball, neither a good outside shooter.  While losing their two of their best 3-point shooters, Hield and TyH.   Holmes and Bagley don't have range either.  A starting 5 with one shooter (Barnes)?

And then PHI has to rely on TyH and Maxey as their PG's?
All pretty iffy, as well as relying on low impact Hield.

My Fox/Simmons swap seems the obvious solution ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 11, 2021, 06:39:31 PM
Both need the ball, neither a good outside shooter.  While losing their two of their best 3-point shooters, Hield and TyH.   Holmes and Bagley don't have range either.  A starting 5 with one shooter (Barnes)?


Davion can shoot

So can Terrence Davis.

You have to comb rosters before being so sure of your comments

I dont think Simmons needs the ball.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 11, 2021, 07:08:14 PM
My Fox/Simmons swap seems the obvious solution ...


Very tough for Sac here

Fox is just such a stud
Title: Sorry Kamster
Post by: carlos123 on October 11, 2021, 09:03:36 PM
Quote from: Kamster on October 11, 2021, 11:09:54 AM
I'm going to adjust my Knicks win total to 48 wins.

Quote from: Bozizzley on September 16, 2021, 02:20:31 AM
Predictions can be modified until opening game tipoff.

Quote from: czarlos123 on September 16, 2021, 12:47:37 PM
No, they can't. You're not the one keeping score. Cannot be modified after Saturday 9/18/2021.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 11, 2021, 09:25:23 PM
Kam is at 48, for the record. You can wiggle till opening night.
Title: Keeping score
Post by: carlos123 on October 11, 2021, 10:29:28 PM
Quote from: Fac on October 11, 2021, 09:25:23 PM
Kam is at 48, for the record. You can wiggle till opening night.

Ok Fac.

You keep the score.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 12, 2021, 12:53:31 AM
I would not do nearly as fine a job as you will, Los. Just cut Kam some slack. He only recently found his optimism again.
Title: Davion Mitchell
Post by: chipstern on October 12, 2021, 01:04:19 AM
BoD.

Your projections do not appear to be panning out.

As for the Simmons deal, looks like he.might be Philly bound.

Go figure.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 12, 2021, 02:36:51 AM
lol, lol, lol... ain't nothing to figure, the preseason $$ loss total hit a cool million and that little beyatch came running home fast as he could!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 12, 2021, 04:05:31 AM
I was just vaguely familiar with the top of the draft.  Focused (as much as I do on the draft) on the Knix ~20 range.  Actually when I skimmed through pre-draft, Davion Mitchell sounded like the perfect pick for the Knix.  A Thibs type PG (and the draft was before we got Kemba).  I think I posted that pre-draft (/maybe not).  I think the response was: Yeah, duh.

Wouldn't surprise me if Micthell is better than the 4 guys picked ahead of him (caveat: I only saw Suggs in the NCAA tourney; read some about Giddey; don't know Kuminga and Wagner, but they both seem like riskier picks)

Dav Mitch is a very nice pick for Sacto who had the 28th ranked D.
Fox and Hield are at best indifferent defenders (and notably bad off the ball).
A guard trio of Fox/TyH/Davion is young and intriguing.
SacKings were lucky TyH dropped to them.  Very much a Bogdanovich replacement falling to them at #12.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 12, 2021, 04:28:33 AM
Saw some Moses Moody in preseason.  Looked terrific for a 19 year old. I assume that's why old friend Langston Galloway was released.  Probably to save money too.
Hope Galloway gets picked up somewhere.  Either now or after in-season injuries mount.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 12, 2021, 10:38:13 AM
Didn't see the final but Davion hit 5 threes in the first half last night

Playing catch up - anyone see Philly-BK?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 12, 2021, 10:50:01 AM
GELO!!!!!

Shams Charania: After playing for the Hornets in Summer League, LiAngelo Ball is signing a contract in the NBA G League, sources tell @TheAthletic @Stadium. Ball will enter the Oct. 23 Draft, where he could be candidate for Charlotte
Title: In & Out
Post by: chipstern on October 12, 2021, 12:36:30 PM
Ben Simmons

In

Kyrie Irving

Out

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/columnist/jeff-zillgitt/2021/10/12/kyrie-irving-banned-nets-until-he-receives-vaccination/6103611001/?fbclid=IwAR0cHLsPRbE4i4-eDSXPVhMEK5JxnwBy3K-y7epcLdBpDd9cBAPAH2utPDA (https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/columnist/jeff-zillgitt/2021/10/12/kyrie-irving-banned-nets-until-he-receives-vaccination/6103611001/?fbclid=IwAR0cHLsPRbE4i4-eDSXPVhMEK5JxnwBy3K-y7epcLdBpDd9cBAPAH2utPDA)

No indication that he has been suspended or any financial penalties. 

Nyets had no choice.  Indulging him was bad for the team, let alone, potentially, for his team mates' HEALTH, for fuck's sake. 

PS: No word on Bradley Beal.  But presumably we will not be seeing him at MSG. 
Title: Re: In & Out
Post by: chipstern on October 12, 2021, 01:07:42 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 12, 2021, 12:36:30 PM
Ben Simmons

In

Kyrie Irving

Out

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/columnist/jeff-zillgitt/2021/10/12/kyrie-irving-banned-nets-until-he-receives-vaccination/6103611001/?fbclid=IwAR0cHLsPRbE4i4-eDSXPVhMEK5JxnwBy3K-y7epcLdBpDd9cBAPAH2utPDA (https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/columnist/jeff-zillgitt/2021/10/12/kyrie-irving-banned-nets-until-he-receives-vaccination/6103611001/?fbclid=IwAR0cHLsPRbE4i4-eDSXPVhMEK5JxnwBy3K-y7epcLdBpDd9cBAPAH2utPDA)

No indication that he has been suspended or any financial penalties. 

Nyets had no choice.  Indulging him was bad for the team, let alone, potentially, for his team mates' HEALTH, for fuck's sake. 

PS: No word on Bradley Beal.  But presumably we will not be seeing him at MSG.

Marks says Irving will only lose salary for home games.

For those keeping score, that comes to $427,484 per game. 

Obviously, Sean Marks inputted Durant and Harden, but in the end if came down to a call by him and the team owner.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 12, 2021, 03:42:59 PM
PS: No word on Bradley Beal.  But presumably we will not be seeing him at MSG.


Hearing visiting players can play

Even if the NBA does not pass a vaccine requirement for players, they are not above protocols from local health officials. New York City requires people over 12 years old to show proof of at least one dose of a COVID-19 vaccine to attend indoor entertainment events, including sports games. In San Francisco, people over 12 are required to be fully vaccinated to attend indoor events. That includes NBA players hoping to take the court for practice or games, although the league told teams the requirements do not apply to visiting players

https://www.latimes.com/sports/story/2021-09-28/nba-covid-vaccinations-players-league-policy-nfl
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 12, 2021, 04:05:29 PM
KINGS 17-45 from 3 last night, 9 of them from the 2 guys I mentioned
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 12, 2021, 04:25:50 PM
THIRD 2019 number one pick has been released.  This time it is Samanic of San Antone.

All three were Euros.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 12, 2021, 04:50:56 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 12, 2021, 03:42:59 PM
PS: No word on Bradley Beal.  But presumably we will not be seeing him at MSG.


Hearing visiting players can play

Even if the NBA does not pass a vaccine requirement for players, they are not above protocols from local health officials. New York City requires people over 12 years old to show proof of at least one dose of a COVID-19 vaccine to attend indoor entertainment events, including sports games. In San Francisco, people over 12 are required to be fully vaccinated to attend indoor events. That includes NBA players hoping to take the court for practice or games, although the league told teams the requirements do not apply to visiting players

https://www.latimes.com/sports/story/2021-09-28/nba-covid-vaccinations-players-league-policy-nfl

Visiting players do not have to use the NBA Covid protocol for the unvaccinated on the road though they do at home if they meet local restrictions and are even allowed to participate.

The NBA has no control over and must comply with every health protocol governing any place they do play and the players on both teams must meet local requirements to show up at all. That means not only will unvaccinated players on New York and California teams not play home games, but teams with road games scheduled in those cities will have to meet those players somewhere dumber further down the road.

The NBA is not helping Kyrie skirt NY law so he can play in the Garden.

A player committed to remaining unvaccinated could be only eligible to play as few as 20 to 24 games this season if his franchise is housed in a sane city. If that does not sink his team, they should be fine without him for at least half if not all of every playoff series the team winds up in.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 12, 2021, 04:58:22 PM
Myles Powell is in camp. Tyler Hall cut. The Knicks are using that 20th spot to fill out the Westchester roster, as one does.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 12, 2021, 05:10:47 PM
Draft for rest of Westchester roster is Oct 23 - though of course we would not have the rights to all those players.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 12, 2021, 05:17:38 PM
Exhibit 10s keep them out of the draft. That is the point of the cap deals. They give teams the chance to secure players with fatter offers if they choose. Powell is a good candidate.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 12, 2021, 07:34:44 PM
Yet what I said is correct.

Like what I said about Beal playing road games.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 12, 2021, 07:49:37 PM
Beal can play road games in suicide states like Florida, sure. No games in sane states though. Washington will pay him for about a quarter of the season in games played if he is healthy for those dwindling opportunities. It should help them get into good lotto position.

At least BB has his gold medal to console him as he watches Wizard games on TV.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 12, 2021, 07:57:40 PM
Well, no

Beal can play EVERY road game - and ...well.... every home game

That would make 82
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 12, 2021, 10:30:37 PM
More mandates are coming and the ones that already exist are getting tighter with fewer exceptions. These mandates are a big hit with the public in addition to saving countless lives.

The NBA will not miss Beal or Irving this year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 13, 2021, 07:56:36 AM
Won't miss Beal at all since he is eligible every game
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 13, 2021, 09:15:38 AM
Another white shooter contract for Bo to get pissed about

Michael Scotto - Kevin Huerter might command Joe Harris type of money. Some around the league see him as a guy that is around the $18 million annual range.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 13, 2021, 09:21:24 AM
Embiid the asshole

Lauren Rosen: Joel Embiid on his early partnership with Andre Drummond   - He is a great guy. Obviously I always kicked his butt, and he knows it too. But it is great to be in the same side. He is a smart basketball player. I have a lot of respect for him. I think he is going to be huge for us.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 13, 2021, 09:26:26 AM
lol, where's the asshole part?

If Ben the simpering coward Simmons had even 1/3 the competitive spirit and any inkling to grow his game they'd have a ring already.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 13, 2021, 09:31:09 AM
Fuck this fossil

Gregg Popovich has never been afraid to speak his mind. The San Antonio Spurs was recently vocal against how certain Texas school districts, including San Antonio, have called a day off to celebrate Christopher Columbus Day. The Spurs coach sounded off against the policy in a recent interview after he was asked about President Joe Bidens proclamation for Indigenous Peoples Day. - Its way overdue for a country, said the Spurs coach. I would think there are a lot of people very happy about it. But I am a little confused about our city and why it is Indigenous Peoples Day slash Columbus Day. Columbus? He initiated a new-world genocide. Thats what he did.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 13, 2021, 09:31:53 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on October 13, 2021, 09:26:26 AM
lol, where's the asshole part?

If Ben the simpering coward Simmons had even 1/3 the competitive spirit and any inkling to grow his game they'd have a ring already.

Embiid did not play well in big stretches of the series they lost
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on October 13, 2021, 09:39:55 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 13, 2021, 09:31:09 AM
Fuck this fossil

Gregg Popovich has never been afraid to speak his mind. The San Antonio Spurs was recently vocal against how certain Texas school districts, including San Antonio, have called a day off to celebrate Christopher Columbus Day. The Spurs coach sounded off against the policy in a recent interview after he was asked about President Joe Bidens proclamation for Indigenous Peoples Day. - Its way overdue for a country, said the Spurs coach. I would think there are a lot of people very happy about it. But I am a little confused about our city and why it is Indigenous Peoples Day slash Columbus Day. Columbus? He initiated a new-world genocide. Thats what he did.
It's apparent that Kid doesn't "respect" Pop either.  I'm in good company.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 13, 2021, 09:43:57 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 13, 2021, 09:31:53 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on October 13, 2021, 09:26:26 AM
lol, where's the asshole part?

If Ben the simpering coward Simmons had even 1/3 the competitive spirit and any inkling to grow his game they'd have a ring already.

Embiid did not play well in big stretches of the series they lost

lol, lol if you say so...might have helped if he and his teammates x-Ben weren't playing 4 v 5 on offense every single fourth quarter...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 13, 2021, 09:51:21 AM
I think Embiid had about 5 turnovers just in the second and third quarters of Game Seven vs Hawks.  Also missed a two and a three last 2 minutes that would have had Philly within a point.

Simmons was removed by Rivers with the game in the balance.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 13, 2021, 10:57:31 AM
lol lol lol, you can keep on about Embid this, Embid that, but he carried that m'fn team.

Simmons had to be removed...he didn't want to touch the ball, he didn't want to shoot, he quit playing basketball...his run and hide fourth quarters across seven games may represent the most disgraceful playoff failure in the entire history of the league!


So the _____ to the Knicks rumor is always a given whenever a high profile player comes into play.


Yet the Simmons to the Knicks rumor never came up....because everybody knows the org doesn't want anything to do with the cowardly piece o&%&%*&^ and that he couldn't survive a week in the Garden.


"I will never play for the 76ers again!!!!!!....UNTIL I'M ON THE VERGE OF LOSING ANOTHER MILLION"

lol, lol....I betchu that m'fer develops some kind of groin strain and tries to keep collecting that check from afar rather than face the fans again in Philly, you best believe it!

In fact I'm pretty sure he strained his groin when he walked through the door to get his covid test!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 13, 2021, 11:23:00 AM
This Just IN

Lauren Rosen: Andre Drummond   "I'll be out the rest of preseason for mental health reasons. When Embid said he kicked my butt, that was the last straw. He also tries to score on me during practice scrimmages. Can you believe it? What a dick. I can see why Ben was scared to come back here."
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 13, 2021, 01:52:26 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 13, 2021, 09:31:09 AM
Fuck this fossil

Gregg Popovich has never been afraid to speak his mind. The San Antonio Spurs was recently vocal against how certain Texas school districts, including San Antonio, have called a day off to celebrate Christopher Columbus Day. The Spurs coach sounded off against the policy in a recent interview after he was asked about President Joe Bidens proclamation for Indigenous Peoples Day. - Its way overdue for a country, said the Spurs coach. I would think there are a lot of people very happy about it. But I am a little confused about our city and why it is Indigenous Peoples Day slash Columbus Day. Columbus? He initiated a new-world genocide. Thats what he did.

Christopher Columbus is a fossil of genocide. Fuck him.

Gregg Popovich in addition to being a hall of fame coach is a national treasure for his work healing our culture especially in Texas where it is needed most. Put statues of him up so he can be celebrated.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 13, 2021, 01:54:32 PM
Nyets will not play Kyrie at all.

OKC might take him off their hands for the low low price of tossing in Cam Thomas and Paul Reed.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 13, 2021, 01:56:15 PM
Paul Reed is on the Sixers - you dumb ass fuck.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 13, 2021, 01:58:52 PM
lol lol lol, you can keep on about Embid this, Embid that, but he carried that mfn team.


Game 5 was a complete Embiid MESS

33 turnovers in 7 games

Ewing had just 22 vs Hakeem in '94

(Pat also blocked THIRTY shots, to Joel's 14)



Embiid overrated - yes.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 13, 2021, 01:59:56 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 13, 2021, 01:52:26 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 13, 2021, 09:31:09 AM
Fuck this fossil

Gregg Popovich has never been afraid to speak his mind. The San Antonio Spurs was recently vocal against how certain Texas school districts, including San Antonio, have called a day off to celebrate Christopher Columbus Day. The Spurs coach sounded off against the policy in a recent interview after he was asked about President Joe Bidens proclamation for Indigenous Peoples Day. - Its way overdue for a country, said the Spurs coach. I would think there are a lot of people very happy about it. But I am a little confused about our city and why it is Indigenous Peoples Day slash Columbus Day. Columbus? He initiated a new-world genocide. Thats what he did.

Christopher Columbus is a fossil of genocide. Fuck him.

Gregg Popovich in addition to being a hall of fame coach is a national treasure for his work healing our culture especially in Texas where it is needed most. Put statues of him up so he can be celebrated.

Thanks.  An Ignore options seems insufficient.  Maybe we can launch his ass into space with William Shatner.  I believe the planet of Your Anus might prove hospital, as it, too, is awash in methane. 

The hits keep coming with our refugee from Fox Crudes, Man Coulter. I'm surprised he hasn't come out in favor of the genocide in the Tulsa community of Greenwood. 
Title: UrAnus
Post by: carlos123 on October 13, 2021, 02:14:43 PM
The only Anus both ChamAco and ChamAAco are interested in is that of Donaldo Jenius (sic) Trumpf.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 13, 2021, 02:25:08 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 13, 2021, 09:15:38 AM
Another white shooter contract for Bo to get pissed about

Michael Scotto - Kevin Huerter might command Joe Harris type of money. Some around the league see him as a guy that is around the $18 million annual range.

In general, the reality is that shooters are getting overpaid these days.
It used to be C's, now it's the 3-ballers.

You're the only one concerned about pigmentation.
Hield is overpaid.  I railed against Tim Jr.'s first big contract, but salaries have jumped and his overall play has improved.

I like Huerter, but seems not as much as many others.
I liked Bertans a few years back, before he cashed in.  Wildly overpaid now.
I'll give Joe Harris credit for rounding out his game some, with backdoor cuts, a little playmaking, even some screening and boarding, to go with his below average defense (improved from bad).  Harris has some toughness to go with his shooting.  He also looked overweight last season.

But why would I be pissed regarding who makes what?  Good for them and their families.  I just look at it as what is the value to the team given the salary cap reality.   And as always, I prefer to have players who defend adequately.  For shooters, I prefer consistency to streakiness.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 13, 2021, 02:30:22 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 13, 2021, 01:56:15 PM
Paul Reed is on the Sixers - you dumb ass fuck.

Thomas and Sharpe can be the sweeteners for OKC.

When you dream about me reaming you out, you had better apologize when you wake up. It is gross and a little invasive.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 13, 2021, 02:52:32 PM
Kid, having lived so large in your head for so long, I do not see any upside for me in taking over any more of your distressed properties such as your wrecked anus which you felt moved to offer. As you search for other potential occupants for that fetid hole please do so elsewhere than the forums.

Thanks
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 13, 2021, 03:16:21 PM
You are no doubt a good man in other circles, FacMan.  But have lost your way here.

Be well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 13, 2021, 03:29:24 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 13, 2021, 03:16:21 PM
You are no doubt a good man in other circles, FacMan.  But have lost your way here.

Be well.

Thanks.

If you cannot find a country with low enough standards to take you in, I recommend that you try to settle on the pacific garbage patch and try to eek out some sort of a living there.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 13, 2021, 03:33:38 PM
Kyrie will not be headed to Dallas.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/mavericks/2021/10/13/mark-cuban-stiffens-covid-19-stance-if-you-work-for-me-i-require-my-employees-to-be-vaccinated/ (http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/mavericks/2021/10/13/mark-cuban-stiffens-covid-19-stance-if-you-work-for-me-i-require-my-employees-to-be-vaccinated/)
Title: KyRIE
Post by: chipstern on October 13, 2021, 03:34:15 PM
Facil, regarding your OKC trade scenario? 

Kyrie had a championship run with one of the all time greats in LeBron James. 

He wanted out of Cleveland. 

Boston gave up a King's ransom in assets, and divested themselves of key pieces to open up cap space to team him with a talented young core.  Said he was going to reup. 

He left the Celtics. 

Wanted to team up with Kevin Durant, who extended himself to bring Kyrie on board to play for the team he was a fan of as a kid. 

Even with a roster filled with talent, a growing fan base, a generous supportive owner, and a clear run at an NBA championship for the city of Brooklyn, Kyrie has prioritized being a symbol of vaccination resistance to those people who prioritize their bodies over the greater community good. 

Kyrie is a great talent, and is given to charitable and noble outreaches. 

We differ on this being one of them. 

He is going to make 17 million dollars this year for copping a pose and vogueing a la Madonna, or those millionaire celebs saving the Brazilian rainforests or standing up for the environment by flying to Green Party rallies in their private jets.  He is going to collect half of his contractual monies, tantamount to what Evan Fournier will be paid this season to play full time for the Knicks.

He is getting paid for doing nothing.  He has utterly fucked Nyets GM Sean Marks, owner Joe Tsai, his team mates and the people of Brooklyn.  Durant and Harden and everyone is saying "the right thing" vis a vis his personal choice and principles. 

Kyrie's sense of entitlement is EPIC. 

Trades?

Seriously? 

Who in their right minds would commit to this remarkably self absorbed manchild and put their entire enterprise and the livelihoods and aspirations of multitudes of people at risk? 

The Nyets, it would seem, are hedging their bets by paying him, perhaps projecting re-signing him as a free agent in some Post-Pandemic scenarios.  Paying him ANYTHING is a colossal miscalculation.  Much as the Sixers combined fines with putting Gentle Ben's salary in an escrow account until he came to his senses, the Nyets should simply pocket their 35 million and show this motherfucker the door. 

FUCK KYRIE IRVING. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 13, 2021, 03:41:06 PM
Gosh... cut and paste breaks when it sees an apostrophe or an ellipsis. 

Can't paste ... this
Title: Pace yourselves
Post by: Kam on October 13, 2021, 03:41:56 PM
Life in the Fast Lane

From the moment Tom Thibodeau took over as head coach of the Chicago Bulls, he was saddled with a reputation of believing wholeheartedly that slow and steady wins the race.

Gifted one of the fastest and athletic point guards in the history of basketball, Thibs nonetheless had Chicago's offense running at a bottom-10 pace. Whether Derrick Rose was off the court or on it, it didnt matter.


Through the rest of Thibodeaus Bulls tenure and nearly the entirety of his Minnesota one, that did not really change. Chicago was in the bottom-four in pace for three straight seasons after that first go around, and topped out at 19th in Thibs final year there. Then in his two full seasons in Minny, the Wolves ranked 23rd each year.

Thibodeau himself will be the first to remind you that the second of those campaigns saw KAT, Jimmy & Co sport the 4th ranked offense in the league, so it aint like slow was not the way to go, at least for them. But then in his final half season, something funny happened. On the day Thibs was fired, the Wolves ranked 12th in pace, which was by far the highest number one of his teams ever achieved.

Which brings us to the tin-foil hat theory of the day, and the reason why I do not necessarily think what we are seeing from the Knicks - current owners of the 13th fastest offense in the league - is foolz gold. If you believe that the preseason is a time for experimenting with stuff you
are not completely comfortable trotting out in games, it seems Thibodeau was working his way up to having a faster team over the course of several years.

After never having his team play fast during their preseason outings in Chicago, Thibs had the Wolves playing at the 9th fastest pace of any NBA team during his first preseason there, then 8th the year after that, and then 5th in his third and final season. The games may not have counted, but the trend was clearly pointing up.

And then last season, pffft. The Knicks played at the slowest pace in the league, something Thibs apparently felt mighty comfortable with from the outset of camp, as the Knicks were 29th in the preseason as well.

But they did not have Derrick Rose to start the year surely they improved after that!

Indeed they did, all the way up to 29th.

While Rose certainly helped, if you look at the on/off numbers, they indicate that the team actually played faster with Elfrid Payton on the floor. The fact is that Thibs knew that the best way to maximize a roster with so little offensive firepower was to grind the game down to a fine powder and hope that opponent got lost in the dust. For the most part, it worked.

Except fast forward to playoff time, and the only team left blindly feeling their way through the darkness was New York. They did not have another gear, and the result was ugly.

But they also did not have much of a choice. As Thibodeau correctly identified, New York did not have the personnel to aptly run like the wind. That has very much changed, and now, New York can put four players on the court at all times who can both move with the ball and shoot it. The early results have been encouraging.

-Jonathan Macri
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 13, 2021, 03:44:15 PM
And he will pay for it, Chip - monetarily - and dearly - unless he does get vaccinated.

Recall major leaguers who have their "visa problems" and miss parts of their training camps.  A bit of a ruse.

Kyrie could still end up getting the jab.  I have predicted he will.

Stay tuned.

And lets not crucify the guy all year if he does come back and is playing well.  COVID sucks - and has produced consequences none of us deserve.  This is no exception.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 13, 2021, 03:48:12 PM
"getting the jab"

heh

Isn't it funny how only idiots say that?  As if it is just a painful chore, rather than a life-saving modern fucking miracle.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 13, 2021, 03:56:45 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 13, 2021, 03:48:12 PM
"getting the jab"

heh

Isn't it funny how only idiots say that?  As if it is just a painful chore, rather than a life-saving modern fucking miracle.

Very true, Kam. Very true.

Chip, I was not implying OKC wants Kyrie for his own sake. They can take assets from the Nyets like Cam Thomas, since Brooklyn has the ticking clock running on Harden and Durant making them desperate, by continuing the Thunder practice of harboring the leagues broken and overpaid.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 13, 2021, 05:10:48 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 13, 2021, 03:56:45 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 13, 2021, 03:48:12 PM
"getting the jab"

heh

Isn't it funny how only idiots say that?  As if it is just a painful chore, rather than a life-saving modern fucking miracle.

Very true, Kam. Very true.

Chip, I was not implying OKC wants Kyrie for his own sake. They can take assets from the Nyets like Cam Thomas, since Brooklyn has the ticking clock running on Harden and Durant making them desperate, by continuing the Thunder practice of harboring the leagues broken and overpaid.

I understand.

Worth  noting that Horford and Walker were very high character team first types.

Cam Thomas is going to Inherit many of Irving's minutes.

Irving is untradeable.

No reason to sunder a jewell like Thomas to rid themselves of a tarnished turd like Kyrie.

PS: I was on record as being opposed to pursuing Kyrie as a FA when we had the hots for Durant.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 13, 2021, 05:20:30 PM
The Nyets, it would seem, are hedging their bets by paying him, perhaps projecting re-signing him as a free agent in some Post-Pandemic scenarios.  Paying him ANYTHING is a colossal miscalculation. 


They HAVE to pay Kyrie for the games they are not allowing him to play
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 13, 2021, 05:21:35 PM
Cam Thomas is going to Inherit many of Irving's minutes.


He will make it a bit easier - since his scoring accounts for some lost

But Patty Mills and Bruce Brown benefit most
Title: Mitchell
Post by: chipstern on October 13, 2021, 07:14:12 PM
Full practice today.

Knick On Wood
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 13, 2021, 08:27:59 PM
Start the excuse list

https://www.nba.com/news/celtics-al-horford-tests-positive-for-covid-19
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 13, 2021, 10:08:09 PM
3-0, still rolling. Kemba gets his rest day. Resting Rose for number four is also a good idea.

Taj Gibson is a fucking gem.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 14, 2021, 12:23:57 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 13, 2021, 10:08:09 PM
3-0, still rolling. Kemba gets his rest day. Resting Rose for number four is also a good idea.

Taj Gibson is a fucking gem.
in

Aamir Simms, the undrafted 6'8" forward out of Clemson got some serious burn before he had to leave the game after knocking knees with a Piston.  He played some serious D.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 14, 2021, 02:09:18 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 13, 2021, 05:20:30 PM
The Nyets, it would seem, are hedging their bets by paying him, perhaps projecting re-signing him as a free agent in some Post-Pandemic scenarios.  Paying him ANYTHING is a colossal miscalculation. 


They HAVE to pay Kyrie for the games they are not allowing him to play

Is this true?
Couldn't they suspend Kyrie for not meeting his contractual obligation to be ready to play?  Or say he failed his physical by being unvaccinated?
Or whatever.

You got any support for your statement?
(almost certainly never forthcoming)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 14, 2021, 09:35:15 AM
Taj Gibson is a fucking gem.


Indeed

Not so much from Jericho last night - but he may still be needed if these other cats do not get/stay healthy.  (I do think against better teams we do not get much more than an occasional bright spot from JS - he was 56th for a reason)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 14, 2021, 10:25:02 AM
DeJounte Murray, Lonnie Walker IV offered for Simmons

That is a bit light

Sac says no to including Fox or Haliburton
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 14, 2021, 11:02:37 AM
Just drafted Mo Bamba.  Just for you, Bo

Marant
Lowery
Booker
Durant
Ayton
Poole
P Williams
J Green
Bomba
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 14, 2021, 11:34:21 AM
Kyrie's statement is so revealing. He always seems sensitive and thoughtful, but there's like...a limiter to his imagination. A short ceiling.

It's all about him. He never makes reference to the idea that his decisions can endanger others.

It just doesn't come up in the processing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 14, 2021, 12:00:11 PM
Quote from: elephant on October 14, 2021, 11:34:21 AM
Kyrie's statement is so revealing. He always seems sensitive and thoughtful, but there's like...a limiter to his imagination. A short ceiling.

It's all about him. He never makes reference to the idea that his decisions can endanger others.

It just doesn't come up in the processing.

Well reasoned. 

He IS a sensitive fellow, and he HAS made thoughtful, generous contributions to sundry causes.

But his extreme focus on his own belly button is...disturbing. 

He has now been embraced by the Tucker Carlsons and Ted Cruzs of the world in making himself the poster boy for an egregious cause. 

And his lack of connection with an organization which put $70,000,000 in his bank account the past two seasons, who indulged him when he decided to take a two weeks leave of absence in the middle of last season, let alone his thoughtlessness concerning his team mates and coach, with whom his sense of commitment is as apparently as flimsy as his flat Earth reasoning. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 14, 2021, 12:54:11 PM
It's all about him. He never makes reference to the idea that his decisions can endanger others.


If he is carrying the virus, you mean...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 14, 2021, 02:32:31 PM
Duh
Title: Cnip's Kiid Proxy
Post by: chipstern on October 14, 2021, 02:42:28 PM
Those of you who still interact with Kiid.

Could someone inquire of him whether or not HE and his FAMILY have been vaccinated?
Title: This post is all about Chamaco... and Chip
Post by: carlos123 on October 14, 2021, 03:46:30 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 14, 2021, 12:00:11 PM
He (Kyrie) has now been embraced by the Tucker Carlsons and Ted Cruzs of the world in making himself the poster boy for an egregious cause. 

Quote from: chamacocartero8 on October 14, 2021, 12:54:11 PM
It's all about him. He never makes reference to the idea that his decisions can endanger others.


If he is carrying the virus, you mean...

Ok, Chip, embraced by the Tucker Carlsons and Ted Cruzes of the worl AND, very important, Chamaco Cartero.

Quote from: chipstern on October 14, 2021, 02:42:28 PM
Re: Cnip's Kiid Proxy
Those of you who still interact with Kiid.

Q- Could someone inquire of him whether or not HE and his FAMILY have been vaccinated?

A- You don't read Chamaco, but he EAGERLY reads everything you write, So he's aware of your question. I see three possible reactions:

1- Ignore the question.

2- Respond that it's none of your business.

3- THIS IS KEY: We all know Chamaco has a thing for you. So..., if you promise you're gonna take him out of IGNORE, in exchange for your gesture, he may answer, but only to you IN PRIVATE. So, whaddaya say Chip?

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 14, 2021, 04:14:14 PM
Chip can ignore nobody.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 14, 2021, 04:24:13 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 14, 2021, 04:14:14 PM
Chip can ignore nobody.

Thanks but no thanks

PREDICTING A KIID DODGE.

The over under in Vegas says Kiid is all in with right wing anti vaxxers
Title: C'mon
Post by: carlos123 on October 14, 2021, 05:56:06 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 14, 2021, 04:24:13 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on October 14, 2021, 04:14:14 PM
Chip can ignore nobody.

Thanks but no thanks

PREDICTING A KIID DODGE.

The over under in Vegas says Kiid (AKA chamAAco) is all in with right wing anti vaxxers

C'mon Chamaco, Chip took you out of IGNORE, at least temporarily. It's your turn to answer his question. If you want to do it IN PRIVATE, his phone number is 1-347-CHI-PSTErn. If you're afraid to call him, you can just text YES or NO.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 14, 2021, 06:29:44 PM
Cmon Chamaco, Chip took you out of IGNORE, at least temporarily.


Heh

Sure he did
Title: Mr. heh (and lol) strikes YET again #43,830
Post by: carlos123 on October 14, 2021, 07:22:34 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on October 14, 2021, 06:29:44 PM
Cmon Chamaco, Chip took you out of IGNORE, at least temporarily.


Heh

Sure he did

Ok, so did you text him the YES or NO answer? You know, it's easy, even for you.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 14, 2021, 07:45:01 PM
He already knows the answer
Title: Good boy or Bad boy?
Post by: carlos123 on October 14, 2021, 07:59:29 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on October 14, 2021, 07:45:01 PM
He already knows the answer

Were you a Good Boy and texted him?

Or a Bad Boy, and Chip knew the answer ahead of time?

Quote from: chipstern on October 14, 2021, 04:24:13 PM

PREDICTING A KIID DODGE.

The over under in Vegas says Kiid is all in with right wing anti vaxxers

I bet on the Bad Boy dodger.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 14, 2021, 09:07:25 PM
Carlos - serious question - what generation do you belong to?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 14, 2021, 09:35:35 PM
Lakers-Kings

NBATV

Lets go!
Title: Chamaco's generation
Post by: carlos123 on October 14, 2021, 09:53:29 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on October 14, 2021, 09:07:25 PM
Carlos - serious question - what generation do you belong to?

Almost as old as yours. So... Bad boy dodger?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 14, 2021, 09:58:34 PM
Kid is a Fox coward. He took his shots and now that he feels safe he is trying to stir up shit with his usual malicious idiocy.

He does it here like this because he knows if he did it live and in person, he would be a stain on the concrete.

Kid is the whole book on dumbassery, but it is not a very long or particularly interesting volume.
Title: Chamaco is funny
Post by: carlos123 on October 14, 2021, 10:07:23 PM
Quote from: Fac on October 14, 2021, 09:58:34 PM
Kid is a Fox coward. He took his shots and now that he feels safe he is trying to stir up shit with his usual malicious idiocy.

He does it here like this because he knows if he did it live and in person, he would be a stain on the concrete.

Kid is the whole book on dumbassery, but it is not a very long or particularly interesting volume.

Not interesting, but kinda stoopid funny. Look at his picture, below:

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLWDWClzFZzeXctKJuxzagN1j46e6zq2EAoiDDmPh038jX2OPXG_5aykUoA1OBqeSIavC_nq-S_O1Q2hSePOp0ur9dZQcXJ7dXFFzjfZv9Cmigq01nVn4CLQyov_QFrvbrz_63zEXtCipUQmqm7n1UkT=w626-h570-no?authuser=0)

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 15, 2021, 01:21:21 AM
If it bends its funny. If it breaks its not funny.

Kid went broke a long time ago and broke is how he stays.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 15, 2021, 04:22:08 AM
Simms, Walker, and Selden are left with the 15th roster spot and one two-way spot open . . .
Title: Hmmmm
Post by: chipstern on October 15, 2021, 01:00:21 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 15, 2021, 04:22:08 AM
Simms, Walker, and Selden are left with the 15th roster spot and one two-way spot open . . .

C: Mitchell Robinson, Nerlens Noel, Taj Gibson, Jericho Sims

PF: Julius Randle, Obadiah Toppin

SF-PF: Kevin Knox, Aamir Sims

SG-SF: RJ Barrett, Evan Fournier, Alec Burks, Quentin Grimes

PG-SG: Kemba Walker, Derrick Rose, Immanuel Quickley, Miles McBride

That's sixteen. 

I suspect Aamir and Jericho are our 2-way contracts. 

DEPTH. 

I believe this might [MIGHT] explain the strategy which had us put one of our #1 picks on ice until [potentially] 2022, and make one of our three second round picks a Euro-Stash. 

A lot of talent and only so much roster space and so many rotation openings. 
Title: The Company You Keep
Post by: chipstern on October 15, 2021, 01:07:13 PM
Georgia Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene has spoken up in defense of benched Brooklyn Nets player Kyrie Irving, who has steadfastly refused to get the COVID-19 shot.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 15, 2021, 01:32:16 PM
Flat Earthers stick together.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 15, 2021, 02:06:33 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 15, 2021, 01:32:16 PM
Flat Earthers stick together.


Steve Nash indicated that I AM DONE TALKING ABOUT KYRIE IRVING. 

Dig that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 15, 2021, 02:23:04 PM
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/samanlu01.html (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/samanlu01.html)

Knicks ink Luka Samanic to 2-way contract. 

https://airalamo.com/posts/san-antonio-spurs-likely-steps-after-waiving-luka-samanic (https://airalamo.com/posts/san-antonio-spurs-likely-steps-after-waiving-luka-samanic)
Title: Re: The Company You Keep
Post by: Yankguy1 on October 15, 2021, 02:24:20 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 15, 2021, 01:07:13 PM
Georgia Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene has spoken up in defense of benched Brooklyn Nets player Kyrie Irving, who has steadfastly refused to get the COVID-19 shot.
Isn't there some expression about laying down with dogs and getting fleas?
Title: Another Luka
Post by: chipstern on October 15, 2021, 02:25:53 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 15, 2021, 02:23:04 PM
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/samanlu01.html (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/samanlu01.html)

Knicks ink Luka Samanic to 2-way contract. 

https://airalamo.com/posts/san-antonio-spurs-likely-steps-after-waiving-luka-samanic (https://airalamo.com/posts/san-antonio-spurs-likely-steps-after-waiving-luka-samanic)

Spurs selected him at #19 in 2019 draft. 

https://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2019.html (https://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2019.html)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 15, 2021, 02:49:50 PM
I believe this might [MIGHT] explain the strategy which had us put one of our #1 picks on ice until [potentially] 2022, and make one of our three second round picks a Euro-Stash.


Yep.

And that the delayed PICK is more valuable in a forthcoming deal.
Title: Re: The Company You Keep
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 15, 2021, 02:51:14 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 15, 2021, 01:07:13 PM
Georgia Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene has spoken up in defense of benched Brooklyn Nets player Kyrie Irving, who has steadfastly refused to get the COVID-19 shot.

Jason Whitlock
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 15, 2021, 07:21:36 PM
Whitlock says a lot of ignorant things.

In a Fox video with Tucker Carlson, he explains that men are being "emasculated," especially those with traditional Christian values. He offers no support for this hyperbole, but apparently millions of Americans have opinions/beliefs that he doesn't share so, you know, that's like cutting off his dick and all.

Anyhow, his argument is that Kyrie shouldn't have to get vaccinated, because he is young and healthy and doesn't need one. Even if that were true (and it ain't), his insistence on looking at it as a personal issue and not a social issue (personal health versus the health of the community) is shallow and pathetic.

I mean, fuck, all these guys have to do is look what happen to Karl-Anthony Towns' family.  But they don't. Pretend it's not happening
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 15, 2021, 08:17:20 PM
Quote from: elephant on October 15, 2021, 07:21:36 PM
Whitlock says a lot of ignorant things.

In a Fox video with Tucker Carlson, he explains that men are being "emasculated," especially those with traditional Christian values. He offers no support for this hyperbole, but apparently millions of Americans have opinions/beliefs that he doesn't share so, you know, that's like cutting off his dick and all.

Anyhow, his argument is that Kyrie shouldn't have to get vaccinated, because he is young and healthy and doesn't need one. Even if that were true (and it ain't), his insistence on looking at it as a personal issue and not a social issue (personal health versus the health of the community) is shallow and pathetic.

I mean, fuck, all these guys have to do is look what happen to Karl-Anthony Towns' family.  But they don't. Pretend it's not happening

Better still...this right wing Uncle compared Irving's "struggle" to that of Muhammad Ali's draft resistance, which is a load of crap.  Ali was facing prison, and didn't have a 17 million nest egg.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 15, 2021, 09:45:04 PM
Yeah, I meant to add this quote, but something is funky with the site software.

Whitlock wrote,
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 15, 2021, 09:48:29 PM
Here ya go, elephant

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tS2aL4wa2-s
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 15, 2021, 09:50:11 PM
[so strange....i've tried to submit this 5 times]

"Irving's noncompliance could be the most courageous form of athletic civil disobedience since Muhammed Ali refused induction into the United States military.....Unlike LeBron James, Colin Kaepernick and other China-beholden American influencers, Irving isn't crowdsourcing his actions through Twitter's rigged algorithm."

This is Whitlock's idea of courage.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 15, 2021, 10:05:39 PM
Full Whitlock FEARLESS podcast episode with Gruden case and Kyrie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itXu58ghK80

Kyrie talk starts around 56:00
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 15, 2021, 10:33:26 PM
Kid is still falling off his flat earth.

Seems there could be something to the Obi and Randle situational small ball front court.

Good to see Mitch back, rust and all.

Rose is a better player than Walker right now.

Gafford starting to figure things out on the Wiz.

All in all a good preseason.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 15, 2021, 10:54:30 PM
Quickley is impossible to watch

Enjoyed the Grimes minutes

Kemba has warts?  Imagine that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 16, 2021, 01:09:52 AM
Tough all around night for Boston.

The Celts are looking a little too soft to do anything in the east this year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 16, 2021, 04:46:25 AM
Catching a replay:

First 2.5 minutes, Randle & Kemba twice get confused and leave Dinwiddie wide open for a 3 on both sides.  Er, pretty basic stuff.  Randle has to be willing to guard the perimeter.  I expect we'll see teams run a good amount of PG/PF P'n'R's to take advantage of Kemba and Randle on D.  Try to get two mismatches: Kemba with a Big down low and Randle on a PG outside.

Early 2Q, ObiT guards the inbounds like an enthusiastic junior highschooler.
Kemba unable to stop anyone.  Fournier looked like a stranger.
RJB continues to develop much faster than I expected.

Gafford had a terrific 1st half.
Avdija needs to up his motor.
Dinwiddie a skilled grinder.
If Dinwid and Beal mesh, and Gaffords is solid, Wiz could have a nice season.
Surprisingly two deep at every position.  Just a lot of new players to get on the same page.

A Very Bradley and Jordan Bell waived by GSW.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 16, 2021, 07:42:53 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 16, 2021, 04:46:25 AM
Catching a replay:

First 2.5 minutes, Randle & Kemba twice get confused and leave Dinwiddie wide open for a 3 on both sides.  Er, pretty basic stuff.  Randle has to be willing to guard the perimeter.  I expect we'll see teams run a good amount of PG/PF P'n'R's to take advantage of Kemba and Randle on D.  Try to get two mismatches: Kemba with a Big down low and Randle on a PG outside.

Early 2Q, ObiT guards the inbounds like an enthusiastic junior highschooler.
Kemba unable to stop anyone.  Fournier looked like a stranger.
RJB continues to develop much faster than I expected.

Gafford had a terrific 1st half.
Avdija needs to up his motor.
Dinwiddie a skilled grinder.
If Dinwid and Beal mesh, and Gaffords is solid, Wiz could have a nice season.
Surprisingly two deep at every position.  Just a lot of new players to get on the same page.

A Very Bradley and Jordan Bell waived by GSW.

Did you watch the fourth quarter, Coach?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 16, 2021, 09:43:59 PM
Great win

No doubt Thibs wants a win every game approach

Upping my projection to.............

yep...


FIFTY FOUR wins
Title: No, you can't
Post by: carlos123 on October 16, 2021, 10:24:28 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on October 16, 2021, 09:43:59 PM
Great win

No doubt Thibs wants a win every game approach

Upping my projection to.............

yep...


FIFTY FOUR wins

Quote from: Kamster on October 11, 2021, 11:09:54 AM
I'm going to adjust my Knicks win total to 48 wins.

Quote from: Bozizzley on September 16, 2021, 02:20:31 AM
Predictions can be modified until opening game tipoff.

Quote from: czarlos123 on September 16, 2021, 12:47:37 PM
No, they can't. You're not the one keeping score. Cannot be modified after Saturday 9/18/2021.

Quote from: carlos123 on October 11, 2021, 10:29:28 PM
Quote from: Fac on October 11, 2021, 09:25:23 PM
Kam is at 48, for the record. You can wiggle till opening night.

Ok Fac.

You keep the score.

Quote from: facilitatorn on October 12, 2021, 12:53:31 AM
I would not do nearly as fine a job as you will, Los. Just cut Kam some slack. He only recently found his optimism again.

So now, Chamaco, u wanna keep the score?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 16, 2021, 10:51:26 PM
Since I (clearly) don't give a shit about prognostication, I'm going to sprint far beyond this forum's faithless congregation of skeptics......

60 WINS!!!

(I had considered 69, but figured that might be a tad much)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 17, 2021, 12:59:59 AM
Only saw the 1st half (so far).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 17, 2021, 03:54:34 AM
Brandon Knight, Aamir Sims, and MJ Walker have been waived.
Brandon Goodwin will also be waived.
All expected to join the West Chester Knix.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 17, 2021, 04:17:17 AM
Mitch Noel Taj
Randle Obi Knox
RJ Burks Grimes
Fournier Quickley
Walker Rose McBride

Sims Luca

Looks like we are keeping 14 fully rostered plus the 2 two-ways. We start with one guy at each level who probably will not get run, a deep ass rotation, and the open spot to play with as the league comes to terms with reality. Business goes on and meanwhile the Knicks do not look half bad.

I believe in you, Carlos. Only three more days of trouble then nobody can bitch.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 17, 2021, 04:34:03 AM
I assume Brandon Knight is deep insurance in case both Kemba and Rose disintegrate.

Quote
The Trail Blazers waived three name players: Marquese Chriss, Patrick Patterson and Quinn Cook. The Trail Blazers chose to keep Dennis Smith Jr. for the final roster spot on the team.
They needed a Dame backup.

Quote
Kris Dunn was cut loose by the Grizzlies, who kept shooting guard Jarrett Culver on the roster.
Dunn is a terrific PG defender.  A lack of O and some injuries have hampered him.
Unclear if Culver has an NBA game.  But he's young.

Quote
The Clippers cut Harry Giles, choosing to keep Isaiah Hartenstein on the roster.
Not sure if Giles is healthy or can catch a pass.  There's talent there.  Some iffy team should pick him up.

Quote
Rockets waived Dante Exum.
Sloppy, erratic game.  Then injuries.  Much like Muddy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 17, 2021, 11:36:02 AM
Time to look at some unheralded talent across the league prior to opening season


PAUL REED - Sixers

ISIAH JACKSON - Pacers

BRANDON CLARKE - Grizzlies

DWIGHT POWELL - Mavericks

DONTE DIVINCENZO -  Bucks

DAVID NWABA -  Rockets



More to come before Tuesday tip
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 17, 2021, 12:08:08 PM
We kept Seldon. Theo Pinson replacement for the season.
Title: No more bitching 👍
Post by: carlos123 on October 17, 2021, 12:16:24 PM
Quote from: Fac on October 17, 2021, 04:17:17 AM
I believe in you, Carlos. Only three more days of trouble then nobody can bitch.

Thanks Fac 😊
Title: Re: No more bitching 👍
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 17, 2021, 12:28:18 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on October 17, 2021, 12:16:24 PM
Quote from: Fac on October 17, 2021, 04:17:17 AM
I believe in you, Carlos. Only three more days of trouble then nobody can bitch.

Thanks Fac 😊


Conversation from another planet


heh
Title: Mr. heh (and lol) strikes YET again #43,831
Post by: carlos123 on October 17, 2021, 01:54:37 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on October 17, 2021, 12:28:18 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on October 17, 2021, 12:16:24 PM
Quote from: Fac on October 17, 2021, 04:17:17 AM
I believe in you, Carlos. Only three more days of trouble then nobody can bitch.

Thanks Fac 😊


Conversation from another planet


heh

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLWDWClzFZzeXctKJuxzagN1j46e6zq2EAoiDDmPh038jX2OPXG_5aykUoA1OBqeSIavC_nq-S_O1Q2hSePOp0ur9dZQcXJ7dXFFzjfZv9Cmigq01nVn4CLQyov_QFrvbrz_63zEXtCipUQmqm7n1UkT=w626-h570-no?authuser=0)

And heh is my best argument

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLVzyuQnSVoZH_9EEseTYIKwXinOV-w1hCU2Orqpz4xj5tjgDEZh8eh4eMqmk8HQyZTYeZe_XVUYFehK9SzvkNYJLs-O8BYQOGFOhSOD70_c9RIlM9CNkEc2ohp4zCUNU8vx4tSSm_NTCdSuBqkvHqoG=w1024-h669-no?authuser=0)

Well, ok, this too...
Title: Projections [Time On My Hands]
Post by: chipstern on October 17, 2021, 02:10:49 PM
Re-Watched the Second Half of the Knicks-Wizards last evening. 

A few observations.

Marc Berman in the POST, as is his wont, stirring up nonsense as usual, i.e; concerns about Evan Fournier and his shooting. 

Lordy.

The Knicks as a team were pretty chilly from trey until well into the game. 

So what does the "troubled" Evan do?  Nails a sweet IQ floater going to the basket; deuces his man and creates a nice three; and a really pretty pass to a team mate.  Some of his "struggles" would seem to stem from rhythm and learning his team mates, and being a bit more "selfish" vis a vis, Thibs.  You can see a lot of Knicks maybe over thinking the whole UNSELFISH thing, and looking to make the extra pass when they have the shot, and not just Evan, but Derrick and Obi.  A sin of commission.  The unselfishness will balance out.   

Otherwise, second unit is ahead of the first unit, as per Mister Thibs and the evidence of our eyes. 

The Wizards' Brazilian Kemba, that kid Neto, just lit up Walker and the rest of the Knicks.  IMPRESSIVE.  Kemba himself, showing flashes of his genius, but still getting in a rhythm. 

RJ still needs to perfect a midranger off of the bounce, and better finishing at the rack, and to go right just enough to keep defenders honest on his forays to the left.  But HOLY SHIT, for a guy who couldn't find his ass with both hands in a rain storm as a rookie, his three point shooting--and not just from the corner--has turned into a deadly weapon, and you can see him ramping up his D. 

Really loving our depth at the big wing: RJ, Fournier, Burks, Grimes.  And, man, Quentin Grimes has got some stones.  Did he ever get after it on defense in the second half, which will get him minutes, no matter how much depth we have at SF/SG.  And as we saw in summer league, after he got into rhythm, he could get scary hot from trey.  After missing a few against the Wiz, he hit a gigantic trey to key our comeback, and bring us within one as I recall. 

This was a BIG GAME for Obi, and a lot of strong defensive things which wouldn't necessarily show up in the box score.  Played big around the basket with some tenacious offensive rebounding, a couple of blocks and shot changers, opportunistic plays in transition...and of course, how effective he and Julius played as a PF-C tandem.  Mister Thibs indicated it is a genuine option for us going forward, as in his estimation, Obi has gotten a lot better [read: on D].  Obadiah still finding his range on his threes, but they will come...and leave us NOT UNDERESTIMATE the influence of Opi's 6'9' doppleganger, TAJ Fucking GIBSON.  Meanwhile, showing more confidence as he gets opportunities in the box, and that enthusiasm BoD characterized as such ostentatious juvenile jive on the in bounds play, well...our Forum GM may still be getting over his lingering draft day sneer factor.  And based on a very small sample, admittedly, teaming Obi with Julius looks tenable, very tenable, and during the fourth quarter seemed to bring out Randle's Inner Willis.  And perhaps JR can help bring out Obi's Inner Anthony Mason. 

Kemba still getting his rhythm together, and it remains to be seen how he evolves defensively, but Derrick Rose has been fucking unconscious.  The temptation is, as per for Marc Bermans and trolls of the blogospere, is for Derrick to start.  WRONG.  That second unit is building on last season's chemistry, and as we saw against the Wiz, it's WHO FINISHES that matters.  There is a serenity and a wisdom to Rose's game that is a joy to behold, and the work he has put in as a three point shooter, makes him such a dangerous player.  His relationship with Thibs has really evolved on such a spiritual level, and one can only smile thinking about D-Rose's influence on IQ and Deuce, let alone the ongoing evolution of Obi's game, going back to last season. 

CENTER: Hopefully Nerlens will not have any lingering issues, and considering how winded and out of sync Mitchell was, a pretty good effort right out of the gate.  Having Taj and Obi as small ball options with Julius, mitigates the necessity of rushing Nerlens back or piling on minutes to Mitchell until he is ready.  But it was sure great to see him out there getting his sea legs back.  Jericho?  Not sure Thibs sees him as a viable option quite yet, but surely a nice developmental piece. 

THEY CALL ME MISTER THIBS: Loved his attitude in pre-season, less committed to giving players a look, as he is to getting us into regular season rhythm while finding his 10-man rotation, while giving meaningful looks to the next men up, as with Knox and Grimes.  He has remained faithful to IQ as a facilitator despite his struggles, though hey, come the fourth quarter, it ain't about the next man up but THE BEST MAN UP.  I still perceive IQ less as a PG than as a scoring combo, learning when to force his offense, when to look for his shot, and more mature about creating for others.  Dare say he and Deuce are ripping each other new assholes in practice.  GOOD. 

JULIUS: Check.  Again, as with Rose, there is a serenity about him, vis a vis Thibs, vis a vis his wife and children, vis a vis his status as our putative captain and long term commitment to the Knicks [and MAN OH MAN, did he ever take one for the team and leave money on the table] and the city of New York.  Those who were ready to toss JR overboard based on his struggles against Atlanta?  FUCK YOU.  I think Julius recognized that he overthought/overcomplicated things against the Hawks, while Leon and Scott and Thibs recognized that were vulnerable based on offensive limitations, and looked to address them in the off season with the additions of Fournier, Walker, Grimes and McBride, and the development of Obi and IQ. 

ADDENDUM: The much maligned Payton and Smith have played well for their new teams.  Happy for them both to get a second/third chance outside the glaring spotlight of NYC.  Worth noting that while the earthly remains of Kemba represent a significant upgrade on offense and intangibles over Elfrid, I think Neto running wild italicizes what Payton brought to the Knicks.  Obviously, Thibs and the Brain Trust concluded that we very much needed to prioritize offense over defense at the PG, though the drafting of McBride surely anticipates some positive combo of BOTH in the foreseeable future. 

PROJECTIONS:  My original projection was 48-34.  My final call is 50-32. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 17, 2021, 03:01:30 PM
Fournier can pass - yes.

Gordy Heyward Lite
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 17, 2021, 03:04:23 PM
Chip making up scenarios

NOBODY was tossing Randle anywhere after ATL series.

Now give props to those who liked Randle from way before he even got here.  And fess up that you werent sure early on - and even later -  if his acquisition was wise

Or - as you do - fuggetabotit
Title: History
Post by: chipstern on October 17, 2021, 03:10:29 PM
FUCK YOU. 

When everyone was offering up human sacrifices for Durant and Irving, I was petitioning for Randle and Portis. 

You wanted my attention, you got it, nose bleed. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 17, 2021, 03:30:06 PM
When everyone was offering up human sacrifices for Durant and Irving, I was petitioning for Randle and Portis.

- Stern


Gotcha, Chieftain
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 17, 2021, 03:39:59 PM
Just to set things straight -

NOBODY was asking for a play for Julius Randle when we acquired him

There was a smattering of "lets see how it works out".  But not much.
Title: Mr. heh MIA
Post by: carlos123 on October 17, 2021, 05:46:34 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on October 17, 2021, 03:30:06 PM
When everyone was offering up human sacrifices for Durant and Irving, I was petitioning for Randle and Portis.

- Stern


Gotcha, Chieftain

Where's your heh?

Not, using your best argument anymore?

heh, lol.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLWinbC-wbY9Tbfw9_yRvBXj-dN30vUTGj2DxZIFw7YV916uz1J7JesPT2FKQPXymW_gyC8DteIzISKTnMVGvwUF1p9VXHGZfFtodTRdvwzXUeEi_3tRGWDhzbMLXZZe0jz3JYRuTwdW7W-j1SWBvZE6=w368-h570-no?authuser=0)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 17, 2021, 06:11:23 PM
What up with these guys?

As of now, players GONE from our roster next season

Knox
Robinson
Selden
Sims
Samanic
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 17, 2021, 06:25:37 PM
Selden - who I liked this summer - may very well be let go as Knicks scour waiver wire for a 15th player
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 17, 2021, 07:13:04 PM
Here's one option

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2021/10/jabari-parker-will-be-waived-by-celtics.html
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 17, 2021, 09:13:59 PM
Next great Euro PG comes to G League (via New Jersey?)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcLjPgW_lME

Hope we look him up for Westchester on the 23rd
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 17, 2021, 09:19:18 PM
Suns Bridges gets 4-90 extension
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 17, 2021, 09:27:54 PM
Celts Garrison Mathews will not go to Maine after being waived

Add him to Knicks list
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 17, 2021, 11:18:15 PM
Hard pass on so soft Mathews. Too soft for Boston does not play on Broadway.

As a Jimmer replacement he will probably suit you fine.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 17, 2021, 11:27:01 PM
Bringing Rose, clearly our best guard, off the bench makes sense to me in terms of us seeing how teams will defend everyone else before they get a look at Rose which throws a lot of what they had going out the window and puts them in a perpetual state of adjusting on the fly. It also controls his minutes without cutting his key minutes when we need him.

I feel the biggest internal dilemma remaining is how the center rotation shakes out. The Obi Randle tandem upfront showed at least situational potential going forward.

Keeping my pick as it was.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 18, 2021, 12:22:58 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 17, 2021, 11:18:15 PM
Hard pass on so soft Mathews. Too soft for Boston does not play on Broadway.

As a Jimmer replacement he will probably suit you fine.

I am fine with Selden over Matthews

Parker might work but someone else will nab him
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 18, 2021, 01:53:55 AM
Someone might nab him, but for us he would not work. He is looking for a place to play now because of how he defends and shoots threes, two things kinda important in Knicks land today.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 18, 2021, 02:06:27 PM
May be personality issues with Parker - not sure.

Lots of bodies in Boston - and they moved on.  Not just from him.  Others headed to G league or out the door.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 18, 2021, 02:09:51 PM
Celts also trying to get under the lux tax level.  Saved 1-2 mil on Parker - may now look to move Hernangomez for draft capital.
Title: Selden &
Post by: chipstern on October 18, 2021, 03:43:21 PM
Thibs' thinking is interesting. 

Sees him as a dynamic practice player, capable of really engaging and driving the other wings.  Shot .402% [49-122] in 35 games as a 23 years old for Memphis back in 2017-18.  Is now 27, and at 6'5"/230 fits the profile of the big wings Thibs seems to like. 

As for his strying power, well, I'm sure the opportunistic Knicks front office have their radar up for anything tasty that comes across the waiver wire.  Thus their thinking on offering a two way contract to the Spurs 6'11"/227 Luka
Title: Re: Selden &
Post by: chipstern on October 18, 2021, 03:45:43 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 18, 2021, 03:43:21 PM
Thibs' thinking is interesting. 

Sees him as a dynamic practice player, capable of really engaging and driving the other wings.  Shot .402% [49-122] in 35 games as a 23 years old for Memphis back in 2017-18.  Is now 27, and at 6'5"/230 fits the profile of the big wings Thibs seems to like. 

As for his staying power, well, I'm sure the opportunistic Knicks front office have their radar up for anything tasty that comes across the waiver wire.  Thus their thinking on offering a two way contract to the Spurs 6'11"/227 LUKA SAMANIC

Very odd...most of my post did not translate...seems like any cutting and pasting queers the deal. 

Anyway, Knicks looking to possibly grow their own Olynyk-Bertans-Portis...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 18, 2021, 04:04:31 PM
Very odd...most of my post did not translate...seems like any cutting and pasting queers the deal.




Imagine that...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 18, 2021, 06:46:35 PM
It might be a problem between the keyboard and chair on your end. You should see about a firmware upgrade for that component.
Title: Re: Selden &
Post by: elephant on October 18, 2021, 07:34:00 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 18, 2021, 03:45:43 PM

Very odd...most of my post did not translate...seems like any cutting and pasting queers the deal. 

Anyway, Knicks looking to possibly grow their own Olynyk-Bertans-Portis...

Yeah, I encountered that the last couple of times. Couldn't figure out what to do....or what to avoid.

Is it only with issues of cutting and pasting?

Anyone have any advice?
Title: Truncated posting
Post by: carlos123 on October 18, 2021, 08:52:27 PM
Quote from: elephant on October 18, 2021, 07:34:00 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 18, 2021, 03:45:43 PM

Very odd...most of my post did not translate...seems like any cutting and pasting queers the deal. 

Anyway, Knicks looking to possibly grow their own Olynyk-Bertans-Portis...

Yeah, I encountered that the last couple of times. Couldn't figure out what to do....or what to avoid.

Is it only with issues of cutting and pasting?

Anyone have any advice?

My guess is that advice could come from Josh. I can tell you it's not only with issues of cutting and pasting. It happened to me at random times. Also, I think, at times when I tried to use the Alt key to write special characters.


"Imagine that..."
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLUrLguS2pgYIZ1pNStVHEAlV1BjLZbQTqXqqSAHdi3qrNv7Q9sYxaNNc89lMmplxiHtkNLNzQBY2E2q7H6mDToYK5fyf8YmAL3n1b7WygIn1odzjil74zuLEiTmUEseUYjjHTFBH5-2yfTM5L8Fd44e=w285-h190-no?authuser=0)
Chamaco Cartero
Title: Bookies & GMs
Post by: chipstern on October 18, 2021, 09:58:30 PM
Have us at 43-39. 

Berman and touts blowing off Fournier before we're even a month into the season. 

Oh, well. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 18, 2021, 11:26:43 PM
OVER/UNDER IS 41.5
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 18, 2021, 11:36:46 PM
New York Knicks Under 41.5

After finishing fourth in the East with a record of 41-31 last season, New Yorks win-total is stationed directly above that identical mark as most books are taking bets on whether this young Knicks squad is going to improve last years tally by just one game.

Nobody expected much from New York heading into last year, as the Knicks wrapped up their previous campaign with an underwhelming record of 21-45 and didnt make any groundbreaking offseason moves other than acquiring Sixth Man of the Year candidate Derrick Rose.

New York has visibly improved over the last few seasons, but last year seemed a little too good to be true, as the Knicks miraculously mounted a late nine-game winning streak and ended up closing out the regular season with victories in 16-of-20 games.

The Knicks are still an excellent young squad that comfortably deserves inclusion in postseason conversations but asking them to win 40+ games again and compete for a 3-5 seed like they did last year, seems like a tall task.


https://www.vegasinsider.com/nba/season-predictions/eastern-conference/
Title: Rokas
Post by: chipstern on October 19, 2021, 09:58:31 AM
Apparently our #34 stash is tearing it up for Barcelona.

Ought to be oven ready in 2023-24. 
Title: Re: Selden &
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 19, 2021, 10:38:50 AM
Quote from: elephant on October 18, 2021, 07:34:00 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 18, 2021, 03:45:43 PM

Very odd...most of my post did not translate...seems like any cutting and pasting queers the deal. 

Anyway, Knicks looking to possibly grow their own Olynyk-Bertans-Portis...

Yeah, I encountered that the last couple of times. Couldn't figure out what to do....or what to avoid.

Is it only with issues of cutting and pasting?

Anyone have any advice?

At least for now...

When cutting and pasting

Delete all apostrophes, quotation marks and hyphens (as far as I know - others can tell you if they have encountered other problems)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 19, 2021, 10:44:08 AM
Will try to play some games first week (or maybe all of them just to get a feel for the league)

TUESDAY October 19

Nets at Bucks
- Line is Milwaukee -1
Pick -   BUCKS

Warriors at LA Lakers
- Line is LA - 3.5
Pick -   WARRIORS

(This poster does not condone betting real dollars on sporting events)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 19, 2021, 01:02:48 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 16, 2021, 09:43:59 PM
Great win

No doubt Thibs wants a win every game approach

Upping my projection to.............

yep...


FIFTY FOUR wins

What am I at, 52? Yeah, could up it. But not gonna bother.  We're gonna be nice n' strong, that's that & I got enough hardware on my mantel already.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 19, 2021, 01:05:14 PM
Well...

VEGAS thinks we will both look like mokes in the end, Les

Should be fun.
Title: lol, lol, lol, you want some of that $$$ Ben?
Post by: lesterluv on October 19, 2021, 01:07:20 PM
lil bitch trying to pocket the $$ w/o working for it.

Doc says FU.

https://www.complex.com/sports/ben-simmons-suspended-thrown-out-of-practice?utm_campaign=sportstw&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social (https://www.complex.com/sports/ben-simmons-suspended-thrown-out-of-practice?utm_campaign=sportstw&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social)

Embid says Ben Who?

https://twitter.com/BleacherReport/status/1450505250201288710 (https://twitter.com/BleacherReport/status/1450505250201288710)

Whoever advising Ben is really fucking up. Philly has all the juice, all the cards. Ben has none. He will end up broken financially or emotionally, not good for a player who has already shown a complete inability to handle NBA pressure. Distraction for Philly? On the contrary, what wonderful and luscious motivation...

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 19, 2021, 01:07:58 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 19, 2021, 01:05:14 PM

Should be fun.

Yep...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 19, 2021, 01:45:28 PM
New York Knicks Under 41.5?

Trying to avoid being a big homer here, but I don't understand the Vegas line.

This is shaping up to be one of the best Knicks teams we've seen in years.

(and it's not like the East is full of powerhouse teams to boot)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 19, 2021, 01:51:21 PM
I think the line reflects what so many on the forum (including me at this time) choose to overlook - that other teams in the East are vastly improved

Now, is Thibs such a great coach that we will WIN (often closely) on many nights when the opponent is a monster?

Maybe.
Title: Re: lol, lol, lol, you want some of that $$$ Ben?
Post by: chipstern on October 19, 2021, 02:40:57 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on October 19, 2021, 01:07:20 PM
lil bitch trying to pocket the $$ w/o working for it.

Doc says FU.

https://www.complex.com/sports/ben-simmons-suspended-thrown-out-of-practice?utm_campaign=sportstw&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social (https://www.complex.com/sports/ben-simmons-suspended-thrown-out-of-practice?utm_campaign=sportstw&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social)

Embid says Ben Who?

https://twitter.com/BleacherReport/status/1450505250201288710 (https://twitter.com/BleacherReport/status/1450505250201288710)

Whoever advising Ben is really fucking up. Philly has all the juice, all the cards. Ben has none. He will end up broken financially or emotionally, not good for a player who has already shown a complete inability to handle NBA pressure. Distraction for Philly? On the contrary, what wonderful and luscious motivation...


Dickless little dweeb.

Who would offer up major assets for this petulant puppy?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 19, 2021, 02:53:51 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 19, 2021, 01:51:21 PM
I think the line reflects what so many on the forum (including me at this time) choose to overlook - that other teams in the East are vastly improved

Now, is Thibs such a great coach that we will WIN (often closely) on many nights when the opponent is a monster?

Maybe.

"Vastly improved?"

Chicago and Miami will be interesting to watch. Is Philly vastly improved? The Hornets? The Celtics may be improved, but significantly so?

I guess we'll see.

But yeah, the question of how we fare against the best will be key.





Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 19, 2021, 04:04:10 PM
Philly is ahead of us.

Sure - Charlotte, Indiana, Orlando - all of them.  TOR will certainly be better.

No real sad sack in East, except maybe Detroit.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 19, 2021, 04:05:37 PM
Chip mentions "whoever is advising Ben..." as if someone was in his shorts when this shit happened at practice.

Who is advising Rivers?  If Doc cant make this work and Philly has to take 80 cents on the dollar - just how does this look for the head guy?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 19, 2021, 05:03:55 PM
Regular season, sorted by tier and not by position in tier

Tier1 above 50
Tier2 above 44
Tier3 above 40
Tier4 above 32
Tier5 32 or lower

Bucks Hawks Nyets Philly
Miami NY Chicago
Boston Indiana
Toronto Charlotte Washington
Cleveland Detroit Orlando

Phoenix Lakers Denver Dallas
Portland Utah Golden State
Memphis Clippers Spurs
New Orleans Minnesota
Sacramento OKC Houston
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 19, 2021, 07:05:10 PM
Quote from: elephant on October 19, 2021, 01:45:28 PM
New York Knicks Under 41.5?

Trying to avoid being a big homer here, but I don't understand the Vegas line.

This is shaping up to be one of the best Knicks teams we've seen in years.

(and it's not like the East is full of powerhouse teams to boot)

Brooklyn
Milwaukee
Philly

Miami
Atlanta
New York
Boston
Charlotte
Chicago

Washington
Indiana
Toronto

Orlando
Detroit
Cleveland
Title: Chamaco still obsessed with Chip?
Post by: carlos123 on October 19, 2021, 07:18:30 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on October 19, 2021, 04:05:37 PM
Chip mentions "whoever is advising Ben..." as if someone was in his shorts when this shit happened at practice.


My doggie is the one who mentioned. Chip just quoted him.

Did you miss-assign the "mention" because you're afraid of Les, or because you remain obsessed with Chip?

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLVmB6YBxJJCw5pIly_LFE_IH7cEq9Thu0aO8_HGWBw1NNOZI-691I9iwGrktNJBitGNd6qQq21T4yf98U8Sf8Ox9M1Tzo59u58q-wbC581MwiLCh1sK8xShirhzhJLcnBLlGuhsoCmLlgybnNucz9PQ=w595-h757-no?authuser=0)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLW6fp8GuoJcuYpL9jrMqJ8QzwMt9znT-Mc3ojqOz2Zv9dGrH5er9yCNpMxqOVCPewvOnYI8FUYMcuE7ytl4XfPwD39pGXbo0Zq0mjyrYY1emzyHdIWbn83mjGF6YVsDqeLdz9aawkTITKcS3nWmey23=w644-h493-no?authuser=0)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 19, 2021, 07:51:43 PM
What generation did you say you are from?
Title: Ben Simmons [Some Perspective]
Post by: chipstern on October 19, 2021, 07:57:50 PM
Did any of you see the footage from Sixer Practice? 

UnFUCKINGbelievable

He had his cell phone in his shorts, with the screen on. 

Delivering a giant FUCK YOU to the Sixers. 

Suspend him and deny all his money.


Title: The Obsession With Shiny Objects
Post by: chipstern on October 19, 2021, 08:00:34 PM
Can't cut and paste, but a very emphatic quote from Lillard on HoopsHype. 

I AIN'T LEAVING

So much for all of the accruing assets for a superstar masturbatory fantasies.

Dame

Bradley

Zach

Not happening. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 19, 2021, 08:01:27 PM
Simmons has been suspended one game - and now will not get paid for that one.

If you think Rivers is not culpable - get a clue.
Title: Opening Night
Post by: chipstern on October 19, 2021, 08:02:04 PM
Bucks up by 15 on the Nyets, with a minute and change left in the first. 

FUCK THE NYETS
Title: Re: The Obsession With Shiny Objects
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 19, 2021, 08:25:09 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 19, 2021, 08:00:34 PM
Can't cut and paste, but a very emphatic quote from Lillard on HoopsHype. 

I AIN'T LEAVING

So much for all of the accruing assets for a superstar masturbatory fantasies.

Dame

Bradley

Zach

Not happening. 

Better get to a fuckin Finals - just to be sure
Title: Re: Opening Night
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 19, 2021, 08:27:23 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 19, 2021, 08:02:04 PM
Bucks up by 15 on the Nyets, with a minute and change left in the first. 

FUCK THE NYETS

Yep

Good team
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 19, 2021, 08:49:03 PM
7 point game at half

Cam Thomas has not played
Title: Nyets
Post by: chipstern on October 19, 2021, 08:53:05 PM
Patty Mills is a flame thrower. 

He's 5-5 from trey. 
Title: Jabari
Post by: chipstern on October 19, 2021, 08:54:14 PM
Having cleared waivers, the Celts just signed Jabari Parker. 

Presumably a designed play to get a friendlier salary. 
Title: Chamaco not very original
Post by: carlos123 on October 19, 2021, 09:37:59 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on October 19, 2021, 07:51:43 PM
What generation did you say you are from?

Chamaco, you already asked this question, and got your answer:

Younger than yours, abuelito!

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLWDWClzFZzeXctKJuxzagN1j46e6zq2EAoiDDmPh038jX2OPXG_5aykUoA1OBqeSIavC_nq-S_O1Q2hSePOp0ur9dZQcXJ7dXFFzjfZv9Cmigq01nVn4CLQyov_QFrvbrz_63zEXtCipUQmqm7n1UkT=w626-h570-no?authuser=0)

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 20, 2021, 12:17:09 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 19, 2021, 08:49:03 PM
7 point game at half

Cam Thomas has not played

He must really suck at this point in his career. His team got blown out.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 20, 2021, 10:32:15 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 20, 2021, 12:17:09 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 19, 2021, 08:49:03 PM
7 point game at half

Cam Thomas has not played

He must really suck at this point in his career. His team got blown out.

That seems unlikely.

More like he is in line behind veteran Patty Mills. 

Milwaukee looked pretty awesome, inside and out. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 20, 2021, 11:10:24 AM
Nets could have used a sniper last night. 

2-0 on my picks.  I guess I will pick the full slate tonight.

POOLE and BJELICA were beautiful last night.  Wiggins had some knucklehead moments but is a glue type guy whose efforts dont always show in the stats.  Steph triple doub.  Draymond seems to be more mature these days.  I like this team.  Wiseman not even here yet.

For LA - new acquisition Avery Bradley - cool.  Hit a  couple of late threes when called upon to slow down Poole (GS made a key run with Steph on the pine).  LeBron is simply ageless.  Jumper looks sweet.  Needs more guys willing to be led.  No Austin Reaves - wonder if he is G Leagued - hadnt heard.  And no K Nunn as far as I recall.  Small appearance by MONK.

Barkley said it well - its ONE GAME, Lakers fans.  Chill on it.

---

Now - Knicks - Celts.  NY actually favored - imagine - what do you guys think?
Title: Re: Selden &
Post by: Kam on October 20, 2021, 12:50:42 PM
Quote from: elephant on October 18, 2021, 07:34:00 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 18, 2021, 03:45:43 PM

Very odd...most of my post did not translate...seems like any cutting and pasting queers the deal. 

Anyway, Knicks looking to possibly grow their own Olynyk-Bertans-Portis...

Yeah, I encountered that the last couple of times. Couldn't figure out what to do....or what to avoid.

Is it only with issues of cutting and pasting?

Anyone have any advice?


When cutting some text containing an apostrophe '  the paste of said text will break at the apostrophe
When cutting some text containing an ellipsis ...  the paste of said text will break at the ellipsis
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 20, 2021, 05:25:28 PM
Wow

Westbrook with just his third triple single of his career when playing 35 plus minutes
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 20, 2021, 05:31:32 PM
Celts update

Jaylen Brown will play.  Al Horford will not
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 20, 2021, 06:21:39 PM
Games Wed 10/20

Boston at NY
Knicks -2
Pick is   KNICKS

Bulls at Pistons
Chicago - 5
Pick is DETROIT

Wizards at Raptors
Toronto - 2.5
Pick is TORONTO

Pacers at Hornets
Indiana - 1
Pick is CHARLOTTE

Cavs at Grizzlies
Memphis - 7
Pick is MEMPHIS

Sixers at Hornets
Phiily - 3.5
Pick is PHILADELPHIA

Rockets at TWolves
Minnesota - 6.5
Pick is HOUSTON

Magic at Spurs
San Antonio - 6.5
Pick is ORLANDO

Thunder at Jazz
Utah -13.5
Pick is UTAH

Kings at Blazers
Portland -6.5
Pick is SACRAMENTO

Nuggets at Suns
Phoenix -6
Pick is PHOENIX

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 20, 2021, 06:38:14 PM
Josh Richardson out with migraine

Kid in the Corner will play in a mask.


Knicks will be missing NERLENS and also TAJ GIBSON.
Title: DAMN
Post by: chipstern on October 20, 2021, 10:36:47 PM
!!!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 20, 2021, 10:42:22 PM
Fuck.

Yes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on October 20, 2021, 10:54:18 PM
Fun game

Fournier was unconscious in 4Q and OT

first game as a Celt last year he went 0-for-10

and then got covid

maybe next time Tatum plays

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 20, 2021, 11:01:39 PM
Sad to see the kid back in the corner.

Schroder absolutely will help.

Knicks back to their lets not defend the three mode

Good win.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 20, 2021, 11:02:27 PM
Cant give Kemba a pass

Hope it was just rust
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 20, 2021, 11:23:33 PM
Not just that Fournier made big shots. It's the swagger. The energy.

(You all over Bullock now?)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 20, 2021, 11:35:05 PM
Kemba a mild upgrade over Elf so far. We have him at the right salary.

Randle RJ Evan Mitch Obi and Rose all look closer ready. I have confidence in Burks and Taj when they are called upon and I think Kemba will soon find his lane.

49 games left for Jericho.

Randle Obi Evan RJ Rose might be our best unit in the first stretch.

Glad we handled our business as we handed our coach plenty of film to lose sleep over.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 20, 2021, 11:41:23 PM
Quote from: elephant on October 20, 2021, 11:23:33 PM
Not just that Fournier made big shots. It's the swagger. The energy.

(You all over Bullock now?)

I love that Julius flipped it to Fournier just when it appeared we were in last 2 minute JR one v one mode.  Big three there and showed the respect JR has for the new 2 guard
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 20, 2021, 11:51:51 PM
Exactly...for a moment I thought we were gonna fritter it away with hero ball..good stuff. Nice that Fournier was bringing some D as well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 21, 2021, 12:07:52 AM
Incredible game.

Most significant to me were the amount of minutes dedicated to Obi and Julius sharing the stage.

That is a huge development.  Obi looks ready to play a big role on this squad.  Fournier has game.

Knicks offense has a chance to be really really good.   I wanna see how RJ adapts his game as he may no longer be the 2nd option.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 21, 2021, 12:14:44 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on October 20, 2021, 11:51:51 PM
Exactly...for a moment I thought we were gonna fritter it away with hero ball..good stuff. Nice that Fournier was bringing some D as well.

So much for Stark Berman and his dire concerns over Fournier and his shot.

PS: I love IQ, but his decision making was lame.  Thibs pulled him and never let him disrupt our continuity.

PPS: RJ!  What balls.  He has no rear view mirror.  Sucky first half?  No matter. BANG. 

PPPS:  Julius with another damn near triple double.  Loved that Thibs has pushed the small ball.button with JR & Obi, playing good D, and a runaway train in transition.  When he tunes in his jumper...oh, Doctor.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 21, 2021, 12:41:23 AM
Mitch Obi and Randle are the choice three bigs for the significant minutes in a crunch time rotation. Taj and Noel make for nice depth with Jericho coming along behind them.

RJ Evan and Burks also seem locks, as does Rose. Everything else is a bit murky.

Kemba is a special case.

IQ, Grimes, McBride, Knox and maybe Selden each could grab a role.

With Orlando and Orlando after this grind, hopefully some youth with be served if only just to rest old or key legs.

Ah, who am I kidding? Thibs rests nobody ever if he thinks they are any good. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 21, 2021, 04:25:05 AM
1Q: Jaylen Brown went off.  Knows he can shoot over Rose.  Fournier slightly more resistance.  Why not switch RJB on to Jaylen for a piece?  Afraid of Tatum going off?
Jaylen's 1Q 21 points ... uh, maybe we will miss Bullox some.
Knix certainly didn't defend the perimeter well.  Celts mostly stayed away from RJB and largely removed him from the Knick team defense.

I wasn't too excited about Smart as starting PG going in.  But really it lets Brown and Tatum handle and playmake, while Smart functions as a spot up SG.  Always love his D and tenacity.

Fournier wasn't much on D.  But he added a driving element the Knix need.  Two not-easy reverse layups.  Another drive where he did a nifty crossover, might have taken 3 steps, and dished off to Jericho Sims (fouled at the rim, so Fournier didn't get the assist he deserved).

Overall the Fournier-Walker swap of O for D sure played out 1st half of 1st game.

Randle took a good deal of tough iso shots.  Made his first two 3's.  But forced the issue a few times.  Celts had much better ball movement than NYK.  Missed a few wide open 3's.

2Q:
Quix not exactly looking to pass.  Made a long floater.  Then jacked a 27' that missed the rim and allowed Time Lord to leak out for an easy layup.  Instead of getting back IQ tried to jam the ballhandler to block the pass.  Not good.  ObiT hesitated on a 3 because midget Schroder was closing out late.  Then tried to post Schroder.  Passed out, got it back, traveled.  Er.

Things got sloppy mid-2Q.  Both teams with wild miscues.  NYK coming back behind power-Julius.  BOS had a 14 or so point lead.  Hit 50 before the mid-point of the 2Q.  Then started missing fairly open 3's, and turning the ball over.

1st half Knix have done a poor job guarding 3's.
Where's RJB on O?  Last year he was pretty dynamic 4Q, but has had a real silent 1st half.

Randle taking over (as he should while guarded by the smaller Grant Williams).
Smart gave Randle more resistance.
But Julius was a one man comeback.
Let's hope he won't be worn down in 4Q crunch time.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 21, 2021, 10:30:37 AM
RJB got going 3Q. Twice just spotting up and Randle kicking out to him. 
ObiT got all revved in transition. Probably his best game as a Knick, despite missing all his shots beyond 5'.  Toppin' even got two blocks, recovering after getting blown by.

Knix looked really good pushing the pace.  Allowed the ObiT/Randle pairing to work, though they did give up a number of wide open corner 3's (mostly to Grant Will).

Tatum just didn't seem to have any legs.  Couldn't make 3's.  Couldn't score at the rim.
Time Lord had some nice blocks.  You hardly ever see Randle's outside J get blocked.

Fournier with a clutch 3 late and a great cut very late to put Knix up 4.  But then Evan and Kemba really botched the final play of the 4Q, allowing Celts to tie it up.  O/D.

I was thinking it was a game of runs, and then BOS rips off 8 straight to get back into it late.
Rather sloppy game by both teams.
Jaylen Brown was awesome.

I'm gonna watch me some OT.
Title: that once every 50 years Bullox
Post by: lesterluv on October 21, 2021, 10:51:02 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 21, 2021, 04:25:05 AM
... uh, maybe we will miss Bullox some.

lmao, no that is not a takeaway from this game :)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 21, 2021, 11:12:35 AM
Opening play of OT and noone guards Jaylen?!?
Was Randle's man, and he died on a screen and made little effort.  Fatigued?  Worn to a thib?

Wow, what a rollicking OT.  Everybody bombing shots in, especially Fournier.
For this game at least, Fournier has taken on the RJB 2nd scorer role and kept Burks on the bench. 

Interesting that Thibs finshed the 4Q with Kemba (who made some real bad passes leading to the BOS late 4Q lazarection).  And then in OT, with Kemba still in, Randle played Point running the offense.

Damn Dub-OT to open the season.  Guess Randle and RJB will wind up around 50 mins.
Randle took the Knix last OT shot and missed a 3.  Likely tired legs at that point.
Not sure why Celts last OT possession for the win was Tatum, off all game, going against the Knix best defender (RJB).  Randle was on Jaylen.  I like that a world better for the Celts.

Wild game.  Fournier with a career high 32.  Had a great stroke in OT(s).  Yeah, Knicks D was frequently messy, but the O was there.  D should improve once Taj (and Noel) are back. 
Helluva G1.

Celts and Knix kinda even.
Bos was missing Horford (useful to try to slow down Randle) and Josh Rich, a good defender, who could have been out there on Fournier. 
Rose was back in for the 2nd OT and had a big hesitation bucket late.
Game ball to Fournier.  Had what?  19 points last few minutes of 4Q and the 2 OT's?

Knix D obviously missed Elf and Bullox (and Taj/Nawlins).
Guy Reg woulda been checking nearly went for 50.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 21, 2021, 12:07:14 PM
Well, it's clear - no knock on Barrett - Knicks management viewed FOURNIER as a key offensive piece when added.  Did anyone really ever think RJ as "second scorer" was a thing?  To me it was Rose anyway..... now Evan - if he can do this on most occasions - nice

But there will be games when his shot total is limited - we saw that in the preseason.  It will always depend on the game flow.

Not many worries with this team....

OK...

Kemba, Kemba, Kemba..

cant wait to see if last night's malaise was just an illusion.

(Flash to this summer - "Knicks a point guard away from truly contending")
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 21, 2021, 12:10:00 PM
Guy Reg woulda been checking nearly went for 50.



Knicks don't do it that way - with straight up 1 v 1 - you know this.

Brown was HUGE because Tatum (main game plan focus) was taken away and he hit shots.  Boy, did he ever - LOGO!!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 21, 2021, 12:10:57 PM
Happy today to never have uttered the phrase - 'Jaylen Brown is overrated'.

(Not so much with JayTee)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 21, 2021, 12:11:38 PM
Make your picks - how many games does it take Tatum to get to 30% from 3 overall?


Hahahahaha....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on October 21, 2021, 12:25:30 PM
I wouldn't take too much form that game, other than it was fun to watch.

Celts without Horford were too small and Grant W on Randle was a mismatch that Randle exploited.

If I did have positive take away its that if TimeLord continues to successfully climb a steep learning curve he might turn into that 2-way beast as he matures. He may never be a 3 pt shooter, which is fine, but his near basket defensive and offensive skills and instincts and quickness are nearing best in class levels.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on October 21, 2021, 12:27:47 PM
and kid insists on doubling down on stupid.

although at this point "doubling" is kind, as he's lost so many double downs its hard to keep track.

and God knows kid refuses to ever admit his mistakes.

SSDD
Title: Fun
Post by: chipstern on October 21, 2021, 01:54:56 PM
We came back from what, 18 down in the first half, and a remarkable performance by Jaylen Brown.  Sorry, but no sale on the notion that Blessed Reggie would've made a significant dent in the young brother's performance.  He was in a fucking Zone and a half...likewise, Reggie's exemplary competitive spirit did not translate to stops against the Hawks. 

Been getting nothing but better every year since the 2016 Draft when he went at #3 behind Ben Simmons and Brandon Ingram.  NOTE: Going at #7 and #9 were Jaamal Poeltel to Denver and Toronto, reaping the benefit of our franchise's pursuit of shiny objects with the final payments of our Carmelo Anthony and Andrea Bargnani pursuits. 

Jaylen is only 24, and just a matter of staying healthy. 

Again, Bullock?  PuhLEEEEEEEESE. no disrespect to Reggie.  However you might want to peruse that game on YouTube where Pistol Pete lit up the Knicks for what, 68, and he was being guarded by Walt Frazier amongst others.  The Zone is THE ZONE. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiCeBcmqc9c (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiCeBcmqc9c)

There was a stretch late in the game where both teams traded treys that was simply insane. 

FOURNIER

Took a while for him to dial in his trey, dating back to summer league, but his facilitating for his team mates, creativity off the bounce, and deft finishing around the hoop have been tantalizing. 

RJ

No rear view mirror.  A crappy first half followed by an exemplary second.  RJ just keeps grinding.  And the evolution of his trey is remarkable.

OBI

His trey has yet to reach a degree of consistency, though their are tantalizing hints he might in time get it dialed in.  But his game in transition is tailor made for a deranged Garden crowd, and his defense and boarding has taken a significant uptick. 

KEMBA

Will be fine. 

THAT GAME WAS ONE OF THE MOST EXCITING AND SPIRITUALLY DRAINING I CAN RECALL AS A KNICKS FAN.  Better still, it supercharged our rivalry with the Celtics, who will be looking for payback in Boston when they have Horford back, and who look poised to battle us for playoff seeding in the East.

HOT DAMN...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 21, 2021, 02:06:05 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on October 21, 2021, 12:27:47 PM
and kid insists on doubling down on stupid.

although at this point "doubling" is kind, as he's lost so many double downs its hard to keep track.

and God knows kid refuses to ever admit his mistakes.

SSDD

Okay, what's he up to now?  Did he soil himself again? 

Let me take a wild guess.

Celtics should've taken Ball?  Tatum is no good.  He was a voice in the wilderness zeroing in on the potential greatness of Jaylen. 

How am I doing, Bank? 

Oh, well. 

PS: Loves me some Marcus Smart.  What a gamer.  And was very very impressed with the evolution of Robert Williams.  Can anticipate a lineup of Williams-Horford-Tatum-Brown-Smart laying for us in Beantown. 

PPS: Really like Jaylen's character as a young man off the court.  A thoughtful, sensitive, intelligent, informed fellow. 

PPPS: As much as Tatum struggled, he still demanded serious coverage and notched what, 20-11-4.  A very distinguished level of sucking.  To think, I once thought Kevin Knox was our Tatum in waiting.  Hope springs eternal.  Another great character guy, above and beyond his talent. 

PPPPS: MITCHELL ROBINSON with 11 points and 17 boards. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 21, 2021, 02:49:42 PM
I love when Chip reads the box score then tells us what a players line was

Heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 21, 2021, 03:45:18 PM
You are a puddle of piss parading in a clown suit, Kiid. No one cares what you think.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 21, 2021, 05:54:47 PM
I wouldn't take too much form that game, other than it was fun to watch.

-  Bank


Have to take the L - sorry

Thats how it works

You didnt give us your over/under Celtics pick
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 21, 2021, 07:15:22 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 21, 2021, 03:45:18 PM
You are a puddle of piss parading in a clown suit, Kiid. No one cares what you think.

Puddle Of Piss

🍕

Elegant alteration

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 21, 2021, 08:01:48 PM
http://www.theringer.com/nba/2021/10/21/22738758/new-york-knicks-boston-celtics-evan-fournier (http://www.theringer.com/nba/2021/10/21/22738758/new-york-knicks-boston-celtics-evan-fournier)
Title: Mr. heh (and lol) strikes YET again #43,832
Post by: carlos123 on October 21, 2021, 08:36:46 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on October 21, 2021, 02:49:42 PM
I love when Chip reads the box score then tells us what a players line was

Heh

Can't help yourself, can you Chamaco?
heh

Quote from: Fac on October 21, 2021, 03:45:18 PM
You are a puddle of piss parading in a clown suit, Kiid. No one cares what you think.

GENIUS well... almost 🤣
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on October 21, 2021, 08:45:12 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 21, 2021, 05:54:47 PM
I wouldn't take too much form that game, other than it was fun to watch.

-  Bank


Have to take the L - sorry

Thats how it works

You didnt give us your over/under Celtics pick

I'll take the L-got 81 more shots at getting a W.

and kid I'd much rather win the last game of the year than the first.

rookie mistake.

I gave my Knicks and Celts prediction to Carlos, but Carlos wouldn't take my Celtic #.

I think it was a 48 for the Celts 42 for the knicks.

I had both teams as contenders for the 4-5-6 seeds in the East.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 21, 2021, 09:02:41 PM
Ok.  So its over 45.5 for your Celts pick.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 22, 2021, 09:53:38 AM
8-5 overall - and after a night off....


Friday 10/22 NBA slate

Knicks at Orlando
Knicks -  -7.5
Picks is NEW YORK

Hornets at Cleveland
Hornets -  -2.5
Pick is CHARLOTTE

Pacers at Washington
Wizards -   -1.5
Pick is INDIANA

Raptors at Boston
Celtics -   -6.5
Pick is BOSTON

Nets at Philly
Nets -   -2.5
Pick is BROOKLYN

Thunder at Houston
Rockets -  -2
Pick is HOUSTON

Pelicans at Chicago
Bulls -   -6.5
Pick is CHICAGO

Spurs at Denver
Nuggets -   -7
Pick is SAN ANTONIO

Suns at LA Lakers
Lakers -   -1
Pick is LOS ANGELES

Jazz at Sacramento
Jazz -   -5.5
Pick is UTAH



(this poster does not condone betting for real dollars)




Title: Re: Fun
Post by: lesterluv on October 22, 2021, 10:36:12 AM
Quote from: chipstern on October 21, 2021, 01:54:56 PM
However you might want to peruse that game on YouTube where Pistol Pete lit up the Knicks for what, 68, and he was being guarded by Walt Frazier amongst others.  The Zone is THE ZONE. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiCeBcmqc9c (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiCeBcmqc9c)



Ya went and killed my morning productivity...so much to peruse and remember despite the blowout, lol,  besides the Pistol,  Holzman channeling Thibs :), Lonnie Shelton as a rookie, what and what not gets called a foul in 77 ... had to turn it off!
Title: East
Post by: chipstern on October 22, 2021, 02:39:40 PM
Miami sure put a hurting on Milwaukee. 

Likewise Atlanta over Dallas. 

Be interesting how the East shakes out. 

Top tier?

Perhaps...

Milwaukee, Brooklyn, Miami

Second Tier

Philly, Atlanta, New York, Boston

Third Tier

Chicago, Charlotte, Washington, Indiana

Atlanta looked awfully good torching the Mavs, and their 3&D/SF platoon of DeAndre Hunter and Cam Reddish was daunting. 

As I recall from the offseason, BoD was articulating one of his deeply felt trade scenarios, arguing that Reddish was redundant and expandable. 

Hmmm.  Solid D and a stroke from THREE? 

Do not believe Hawks will be shopping him. 

Jalen Johnson got in at crunch time and was not shy about launching from trey. 



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 22, 2021, 02:49:54 PM
No Donte
No Lopez
No Holiday
for BUCKS
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 22, 2021, 02:54:12 PM
Re:  Reddish

Thus far Hawks have just exercised year 4 of his deal - for next year at 5.95 mil.
Title: Who cares?
Post by: carlos123 on October 22, 2021, 06:46:08 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on October 22, 2021, 09:53:38 AM
8-5 overall - and after a night off....


(this poster does not condone betting for real dollars)

Well, Chamaco, this poster doesn't care about your picks, especially when they're daily. I suspect "other posters" here may agree with "this poster" that you're very boring 🥱

BTW, I also don't care whether you condone or not condone betting for real dollars 😵‍💫

Would you condone betting for fake dollars? 🙄

PS - 8-5 overall doesn't reach the level of mediocre, that assuming you told us the truth. You're dumb enough for a 7-6 or 6-7, you know, the law of averages.
Title: Fournier & Randle
Post by: chipstern on October 22, 2021, 08:12:50 PM
Chemistry
Title: Go Knicks!
Post by: carlos123 on October 22, 2021, 09:26:24 PM
Plenty of our guys played great.
How about Burks, with a +20 in 18 minutes?
Knox managed 2 turnovers, 0 points and a -7 in 4 minutes. Useless!
Title: Re: Fournier & Randle
Post by: chipstern on October 22, 2021, 09:51:03 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 22, 2021, 08:12:50 PM
Chemistry

The French Connection
Title: Re: Fournier & Randle
Post by: carlos123 on October 22, 2021, 09:58:21 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 22, 2021, 09:51:03 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 22, 2021, 08:12:50 PM
Chemistry

The French Connection

Hey, how about the Randle-Toppin connection?
Or the Rose-everybody connection?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 22, 2021, 10:05:36 PM
DOC blows ten point lead late

Simmons chuckles
Title: Re: East
Post by: bodiddley on October 22, 2021, 11:51:39 PM
Perhaps...
Milwaukee, Brooklyn, Miami

Second Tier
Philly, Atlanta, New York, Boston

Third Tier
New York, Boston

methinks

Quote from: chipstern on October 22, 2021, 02:39:40 PM
Atlanta looked awfully good torching the Mavs, and their 3&D/SF platoon of DeAndre Hunter and Cam Reddish was daunting. 

As I recall from the offseason, BoD was articulating one of his deeply felt trade scenarios, arguing that Reddish was redundant and expandable. 

Cam Redbone and Gallo for Simmons.
Gotta give to get, and Simmons is still a major talent, while it's good to have elite defenders around Trae.  Yes, Gallo still a dangerous shooter, but slow-footed/non-switchy on D, and injury prone.  Missed G1 already.  ATL has a lot of 3-pt shooting with Trae, Bogdan, Huerter, Collins.  Plus Hunter/Reddish/Jalen.  Not sure LouW sees the court this year without an injury.

Admittedly as Cam comes on, such a deal will become less likely.  And it doesn't get PHI a PG unless it's expanded to include Delon Wright and a PHI wing.  And then it's probably too much change, even if ATL would be trading 3 backups for a starter (and a Shake Milty/whoever bench guy)

Reddish is expendable if you trust Hunter's knee.  And ATL could use to get out of Gallo's big salary, with Huerter's deal on the books next season.  ATL has insane depth.  So consolidating some high level role players for a high quality starter makes sense.  Can't play 14 guys.
Gallo and Okongwu were out G1 and who noticed?  Dieng and Sol Hill filled in fine enough.
Title: Re: East
Post by: chipstern on October 23, 2021, 12:28:04 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 22, 2021, 11:51:39 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 22, 2021, 02:39:40 PM

Perhaps...
Milwaukee, Brooklyn, Miami

Second Tier
Philly, Atlanta, New York, Boston

Third Tier
New York, Boston

methinks

Quote
Atlanta looked awfully good torching the Mavs, and their 3&D/SF platoon of DeAndre Hunter and Cam Reddish was daunting. 

As I recall from the offseason, BoD was articulating one of his deeply felt trade scenarios, arguing that Reddish was redundant and expandable. 

Cam Redbone and Gallo for Simmons.
Gotta give to get, and Simmons is still a major talent, while it's good to have elite defenders around Trae.  Yes, Gallo still a dangerous shooter, but slow-footed/non-switchy on D, and injury prone.  Missed G1 already.  ATL has a lot of 3-pt shooting with Trae, Bogdan, Huerter, Collins.  Plus Hunter/Reddish/Jalen.  Not sure LouW sees the court this year without an injury.

Admittedly as Cam comes on, such a deal will become less likely.  And it doesn't get PHI a PG unless it's expanded to include Delon Wright and a PHI wing.  And then it's probably too much change, even if ATL would be trading 3 backups for a starter (and a Shake Milty/whoever bench guy)

Reddish is expendable if you trust Hunter's knee.  And ATL could use to get out of Gallo's big salary, with Huerter's deal on the books next season.  ATL has insane depth.  So consolidating some high level role players for a high quality starter makes sense.  Can't play 14 guys.
Gallo and Okongwu were out G1 and who noticed?  Dieng and Sol Hill filled in fine enough.




👁😂👁

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 23, 2021, 01:09:56 AM
Knix put a stomping on the O's.
Magic are a weak sister.
Do they roster any legit starter?
I guess Gary Harris ... and he was injured this game.
Maybe they can dredge up some more Wagner Bros.
I like Mo's game.  And looks Fritz or Franz or whatever did all right.
And looks like Iggy is his backup.

My impression is that IQ is best in medium stints.  Needs more than a few scattered minutes, but also shouldn't be out there too long.  ObiT filled the stat sheet.  Looks like Rose was key.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 23, 2021, 01:57:12 AM
That was fun. Still a bit early to get excited, but the signs look good so far. Sunday is a big time trap game. It will be interesting to see how we respond.

Oubre and a healthy Hayward make Charlotte interesting. Chicago should find a decent backup center if they really want to make it happen this year.

The Celtics did not bounce back well from their double-overtime loss. Growing pains with a new coach must be the issue.

Nyets have a decent chance any time they get 20 plus from LA. That should be good for 15-20 wins right there.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 23, 2021, 05:32:21 AM
1Q:
Wagner and Suggs look solid.
Even when Wagner misses or makes a mistake, it's a sin of aggression.
Looks willing to mix it up some.  Has an NBA body.  A little jittery on D, as rooks tend to be.
Of course starting 2 rooks isn't a recipe for W's.  But they look like genuine pieces.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 23, 2021, 01:12:16 PM
Having genuine pieces is one thing. Keeping them and doing something with them is something else.

I would say Houston and OKC are closer to making that leap than Orlando.

Scotty Barnes can single handedly save the Raptors. He is that good.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 23, 2021, 01:52:00 PM
Sad today for Chip, who doesn't get the chance to crap all over the Nets.
Title: Chamaco wants Chip's attention
Post by: carlos123 on October 23, 2021, 04:03:24 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on October 23, 2021, 01:52:00 PM
Sad today for Chip, who doesn't get the chance to crap all over the Nets.

TRANSLATION: I miss Chip so much since he put me back on IGNORE, I'll say ANYTHING to get back his attention.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLXA6gc21H16unuIFjO8gMIPyfa22rMTELIgt8s56j_8n0B3QWxkWmFyh-l2NHBTmaQk8x0t_2hzw54YbZabyXDK0hoclgD0vXLe8GH6QO7YFjd2pGJpUM9HMqWnZDy_XAvSWQmqEEYfXbBWD0Ttgc9S=w626-h570-no?authuser=0)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 23, 2021, 05:11:20 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 22, 2021, 10:05:36 PM
DOC blows ten point lead late
Simmons chuckles

Always helps to have a PG out there.
A couple possessions Curry couldn't get anywhere and the clock dwindled.
But Doc didn't tell Danny Green to shoot 3 airballs.
Or Tobias to miss two short good looks.
Embiid's knee was troubling him, so he sat longer than usual, and then couldn't finish late.
You could see him hobbling after trying to stop a Scurry fast break under 2 mins left.

Give Jevon Carter credit for playing some tough D and slowing down PHI's attack in crunch time.  I guess Doc could have done something to have a better matchup with LMA who killed them down the stretch.  But until the Simmons situation gets solved one way or another, PHI is gonna have troubles in endgames without a legit PG.  And their SG's are primarily shooters not facilitators/handlers.  Always useful to have some combo G types.
Title: Barnes Vs. Suggs
Post by: chipstern on October 23, 2021, 05:17:35 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 23, 2021, 01:12:16 PM
Having genuine pieces is one thing. Keeping them and doing something with them is something else.

I would say Houston and OKC are closer to making that leap than Orlando.

Scotty Barnes can single handedly save the Raptors. He is that good.

All the draft projections had the Raptors taking Suggs. 

He is going to be a solid pro. 

But Barnes does look like he is at another level. 
Title: Philly & Chicago
Post by: chipstern on October 23, 2021, 05:23:39 PM
Bo is right about Sixers meltdown. 

At least Philly fans can't blame Gentle Ben. 

Don't want to look ahead of Orlando at the Garden tomorrow, and I don't think THEY CALL ME MISTER THIBS will take his foot off of the accelerator, but the Sixers are going to have blood in mind come Tuesday. 

Sixers and Bulls in one week.  A wounded top tier perennial, and a hungry up and comer that has retooled much as the Knicks have.  Bulls starting five is pretty dope. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 23, 2021, 05:29:44 PM
7-3 last night
15-8 overall

Nice start to the season.

Picks to come for Saturday 10/23

(we do not condone gambling)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 23, 2021, 05:43:06 PM
Best game I've seen from Mo Bomb.  He made plays on both ends.  Also made mistakes on both ends.  But usually when I've seen him he looked exceptionally raw.

30 point blowout v. a very weak team.  Thibs should have had Randle play less than 30 mins.
Long season.  Wear and tear takes its toll.  Ups injury risk and late game fatigue, etc.

I always like Clyde (and Reggie), competitive guys who don't accept losing.
Clyde kept urging ORL to start playing tough D, to get up on guys, to compete and try to turn things around.  And it's not just one game, it's a mentality.  Don't accept losing.  Show pride.  Put up a fight.   Coach has to let young guys know what is expected, and what is/isn't acceptable.  You don't want to play hard and compete, next guy up will.

On that note, Kings were down 4 with 3 mins to go v. Utah.  Then down 7 with slightly under a minute left, Kings fail to score.  So there's Hield lightly jogging back, as Jazz push the ball,  get a 3-on-2 break, ending in a wide open 3 from Bogdanovic.  Dav Mitchell left looking around for where everyone else was.  Things like that kill a team.  Sets the wrong tone.

ORL and SAC have been the worst at developing players and achieving chemistry this century.
Title: Chamaco's picks
Post by: carlos123 on October 23, 2021, 05:55:37 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on October 23, 2021, 05:29:44 PM
7-3 last night
15-8 overall

Nice start to the season.

Picks to come for Saturday 10/23

(we I, Chamaco, do not condone gambling)

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/FlippantConcreteAustraliancurlew-max-1mb.gif)

(https://media0.giphy.com/media/oysEaycDboIJpuEk0H/giphy.gif)

(https://c.tenor.com/yCCeDPVRyWoAAAAM/bored-boring.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 23, 2021, 06:14:36 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 23, 2021, 05:29:44 PM
7-3 last night
15-8 overall

Nice start to the season.

Picks to come for Saturday 10/23

(we do not condone gambling)


Saturday  10/23


Hawks at Cleveland
Hawks -8.5
Pick is CLEVELAND

Heat at Indiana
Heat   -4.5
Pick is MIAMI

Mavs at Toronto
Mavs  -4
Pick is DALLAS

Pelicans at Minnesota
Wolves  -7.5
Pick is NEW ORLEANS

Pistons at Chicago
Bulls  -8
Pick is CHICAGO

Bucks at San Antonio
Bucks   -6
Pick is MILWAUKEE

Suns at Portland
Blazers   -3
Pick is PORTLAND

Grizzlies at LA Clippers
Clippers   -4
Picks is LOS ANGELES



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 23, 2021, 06:49:21 PM
Kid is also betting money he does not and never will have on some cracker Hitler wannabe winning the race for Governor in Virginia.
Title: Jason Kidd on the once-in-a-half-century man!
Post by: lesterluv on October 24, 2021, 01:00:05 AM
https://twitter.com/NickVanExit/status/1452100524392820743?t=ATG4IobN_2LP5OLRl_QWIw&s=19 (https://twitter.com/NickVanExit/status/1452100524392820743?t=ATG4IobN_2LP5OLRl_QWIw&s=19)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 24, 2021, 02:08:42 AM
Knix have a pretty favorable schedule first half of the season.
Don't have a 3 Game road trip until Dec 8.
Even then it's just @SA-IND-TOR, though 3 games in 4 nights.
Though we do get @PHI @ CHI & @ATL on the backend of Home-Road B2B's in Nov.

First 4 game Road trip is over the New Year, and just @ Minn, Det, Okc, Tor.
Though 3 games in 4 nights to kick that off.

The killer schedule commences Feb 6 through mid March.
A 5 game West coast gauntlet, including Lakes-Utah-Denver in 4 nights.
Then OKC & BKY at MSG
-- AS Break --
Miami & PHI at MSG
then a 7 game Road trip

Knix end the season with 7 of 8 v. weak East teams.
Last 11 games v. East teams.

Overall a very favorable schedule.
W's available early and late.
A hellacious period before/after the AS break.
But get to close out v. a string of lesser teams.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 24, 2021, 09:44:50 AM
6-2.  21-10 overall

Likely no picks today
Title: Ain't we lucky!!!
Post by: carlos123 on October 24, 2021, 11:37:21 AM
Quote from: chamAAcocartero8 on October 24, 2021, 09:44:50 AM
6-2.  21-10 overall

Likely no picks today

(https://c.tenor.com/vwPTVEn3MmQAAAAC/my-feelings-happy-sigh.gif)

(https://c.tenor.com/t-rTMgDs2d0AAAAC/wont-he-do-it-hallelujah.gif)

- Unrivaled military might and peace through strength -
ChamAAco Cartero
(https://c.tenor.com/sI36VHyzYeAAAAAC/wtf-what.gif)

(https://www.icegif.com/wp-content/uploads/wtf-icegif-4.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 24, 2021, 12:29:19 PM
After a 32-0 start, I'm having trouble finding anybody to take my action....
Title: That my doggie!
Post by: carlos123 on October 24, 2021, 12:35:16 PM
Quote from: Les on October 24, 2021, 12:29:19 PM
After a 32-0 start, I'm having trouble finding anybody to take my action....

(https://media.giphy.com/media/26n6WefmqKFVIXUti/giphy.gif)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLVmB6YBxJJCw5pIly_LFE_IH7cEq9Thu0aO8_HGWBw1NNOZI-691I9iwGrktNJBitGNd6qQq21T4yf98U8Sf8Ox9M1Tzo59u58q-wbC581MwiLCh1sK8xShirhzhJLcnBLlGuhsoCmLlgybnNucz9PQ=w595-h757-no?authuser=0)

How about you try Chamaco Cartero? 😁
Title: BTW
Post by: carlos123 on October 24, 2021, 06:25:04 PM
Nyets f'in PATHETIC today.
Couldn't defend sh't, or attack for that matter, with the exception of KD.

Go Knicks, we got the best team in town!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 24, 2021, 08:07:44 PM
21-8-4 in first half  (whaaaaat?)

Remember folks - Cole Anthony cant play

Not NBA starter material

heh

Title: Mr. heh (and lol) strikes YET again #43,832
Post by: carlos123 on October 24, 2021, 08:13:34 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on October 24, 2021, 08:07:44 PM
21-8-4 in first half  (whaaaaat?)

Remember folks - Cole Anthony cant play

Not NBA starter material

heh

heh is my best argument.
(in case you people forgot)
Chamaco Cartero
Title: Brick storm
Post by: carlos123 on October 24, 2021, 10:00:05 PM
What a storm of bricks!

Damn!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 25, 2021, 01:47:17 AM
Nobody watched the game or has any useful analysis?

Knix 6-35 on 3's last 3 quarters.  Non-DRose Knix 8-40 on 3's.
Were we getting good looks or just chucking up quick ones?
Randle with nice Boards, FT's, Blocks (16/14/4 respectively).

2 out of 3 games we couldn't stop a wing from going off ...
Will get me to a replay.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 25, 2021, 03:13:40 AM
1Q
Poor start by Fournier.  Awkward/poor shot on the move, clanked a 3, then just lost the ball dribbling way outside.  Later in the 1Q nails two rhythm 3's.

King Cole got hot and played with lots of confidence.  Missed a few driving layups, but was flamethrowing from deep.  Made some nice kick out passes as well.

Knix kind of blah going over picks and trailing.  O'land getting multiple options mainly by screening Fournier.  Rose and IQ do a pretty good job of getting back to the ballhandler and disrupting from behind. Fournier needs to use his size better. 

Magi with youngest starting lineup ever (since records of such dating to 1970).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 25, 2021, 04:36:10 AM
2Q
Magi screen Rose, and Taj blows up the play, jamming the ballhandler, nearly getting a steal.
Knix were too casual on screens 1Q.  That was a nice wrinkle.  Later Mitch shows to slow down the ballhandler, letting Rose get back into the play, then sliding back to his roll man.
Magic Bigs aren't much of threats.  Seems Mr. Thibs has made an adjustment.

Bamba back to his sloppy self.  Making mistakes on both ends.  Just doesn't look focused.
Missed shots, turnovers, defensive miscues (Mitch was killing him).  Otherwise, I'm not sure what WendCarter's game is.  Maybe the early fouls have him a little tentative?  Maybe he's tenative.  Good size, just 22, maybe just a little slow-footed on both ends.

Randle missing 3's, but mostly good looks, and early on the misses were nearly down.  One of those just-a-hair-off shooting games so far.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 25, 2021, 04:58:01 AM
Knix have gotten burned 3x on guys cutting along the baseline as the defender overhelps to the middle.  Twice Wagner cut past an out-of-position RJB, once Da Bomb slid past ObiT.  Three layups given up when the threat was minor and the help wasn't needed.

Dang, 4' left in the 2Q and Fournier decides to double a non-threat outside, leaving two men open (Carter rolling inside and RJ Hamp in the corner).  Inexplicable terrible rotation from EvFo.  Fortunately Mitch recovers to the roll man and then thwarts Hamp's backdoor drive without fouling.  (Hamp afraid to shoot the open 3, after his last corner trey hit the top of the backboard). 

That's 4x in the 1st half that the Knix doubled weakly and unnecessarily, leaving a man in the corner free all the way to the rim.  Got to tighten that up.

So far the opp game plan seems to mainly be parking RJB's man in the corner, thus taking the Knix best perimeter defender out of the play.  Combine that with a high PnR to pull Mitch out up high, so teams trying to get Randle, Fournier/Burks, Walker/Rose scrambling around.  Make our weaker defenders have to handle various drive and kick action.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 25, 2021, 07:33:59 AM
Knix up 13, RJB hits a wide open Fournier who front rims a 3.  Would have put Knix up 16 with the crowd ready to go nutso.  Missed opportunity. 
Magic score 3 straight baskets, including FWagner stripping RJB and flying downcourt for a dunk.  6 point game with 2:40 left in the half.   
Key moment.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 25, 2021, 10:29:18 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 25, 2021, 01:47:17 AM
Nobody watched the game or has any useful analysis?

lol, Thibs had a bad day yo....


*** we are deep as f&*%K..with plenty lockdown boys on our bench, should never see 2nd tier folks going off unchecked time-after-time or tired legs staying out on the floor past their expiration....Magic bounce-back was inevitable, loss was not, 79 to go, lots to learn,
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 25, 2021, 10:34:22 AM
- Knicks defense at PG position is below average.  At SG is average.  Individually speaking

- Sometimes the young teams just have a bit more gas.  And their talent cannot be discounted. 

Did Mitch look slow to the ball vs Bamba?  Hmmm....

54 win pace.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 25, 2021, 10:37:04 AM
3Q:
Simple Suggs/Bombai PnR.   Randle switches, Fournier doesn't. Bambi misses a wide open 3.
Bomba playing like crap 3Q.

Suggs getting past Fournier/Burks easily.
Knick D taking the 3Q off.
In transition, 5-on-5 yet one guy undefended.  Randle jogged back but didn't pick up anyone, Suggs left unguarded on the right side. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 25, 2021, 11:00:49 AM
No Jaylen last night - Tatum (12-24, 4-11, 3-4)  finds his stroke - Celts big third quarter enough to hold off Rockets who got 8-10 from deep and 30 from Jalen Green.

Schroder 18-5-5 in 33 minutes as starter.  A key guy for sure.

MELO played well down the stretch, had 28 as LAL help off Ja and his 40.  Marant had three free throws with one tick left to tie - missed the third.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 25, 2021, 12:05:51 PM
38 mins for Randle.  Looked tired 4Q.  Fought hard, but didn't have legs for his shot.
Didn't help that ObiT had a bad game on both ends.

Bomba was a disaster in the 2nd half.
DRose seemed to get to every loose ball 4Q.
Fournier had a bad game and rotten 2nd half.

I like the poise from Fagner and Suggs.
RJ Hamp a wild man.
TRoss was terrific.  At least RJB made him work.  Fournier and Burks were EZ Pass.

Knix need to work on PnR and transition D.
Knix interior D (MItch & Randle) made up for a lot of perimeter D mistakes.
Magi had more energy and fresher legs in the 2nd half.
Bad Home loss.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 25, 2021, 12:45:24 PM
Bad Home loss.



Absolutely - have to go with that

Knicks would have been a  STORY in the league with a  win.  Now we lie low once again.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 25, 2021, 12:47:16 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 25, 2021, 12:05:51 PM

Bad Home loss.

Yeah, played bad, then good then bad again.  Then it was halftime. 
Repeat same pattern in second half.


Oh well.  Not the end of the world.  Hard to beat any team back to back in this league.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 25, 2021, 12:56:24 PM
MILES BRIDGES (my pick over Knox) now the 3rd ranked player per fantasy stats (Yahoo)

Top ten

GEORGE
McCOLLUM
BRIDGES (Cha)
S CURRY
DURANT
JOKIC
TOWNS
RANDLE
L BALL
MORANT
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 25, 2021, 01:06:16 PM
That Ball guy though - he's not much.... any good....

hehe
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 25, 2021, 01:12:08 PM
KENDRICK is a smart guy.

https://hoopshype.com/2021/10/25/kendrick-perkins-danny-ainge-consulted-me-on-jaylen-brown-trade/
Title: Live By The Three, Die By The Three
Post by: chipstern on October 25, 2021, 01:46:26 PM
D was up and down. 

An El Nino event from Trey, weren't falling, and we did not adjust and attack the rim, not that our FT shooting was exemplary.  Julius did get 12-14 from the line, 5-11 from other Knicks, JR was 2-10 from afar.
 

Offensively, none of the Knicks had the knack except for Rose [a team high +8].  Kemba looked good on O, but was getting punked on D [his -14, the nadir amongst the Knicks].  Cole lit him up like a XMAS tree.   

As for Thibs' adjustments...I was wondering if he might go to Deuce McBride for a spell to cool off Anthony [29-15-8, damn], who I was happy for, having his YOU SHOULDA DRAFTED ME moment at the Garden...waiting on BridgesA & BridgesB to get their two cents in as per that phantasy. 

As for the usual, "Oh, Thibs played Julius 38 minutes."  Well, he was 30-16-3, with 4 blocks and only 2 TOs.  Hell, the Magic's Wagner played 39 minutes.  Our forum friend MIRASJA thinks Julius is selfish, which I think is a bit much, HOWEVER, Julius and team wise, that extra-extra pass was not there, nor, AGAIN, was our commitment to getting to the rack, save for D-Rose.  And our D was, as BoD points out, not up to snuff. 

I mean, Magic were 26-34 from the FT line, and we were 17-25, a +9 for the puppies, and we lose by 6. 

PS: Oh, and our second unit?  IQ [0-4, a -2], Obi [1-4, a -4], Burks [3-12, a +2]

PPS: OBVIOUSLY, we are going to keep hoisting threes, and likely not at a 27% clip like Sunday, but again, we need other arrows in our quiver.  And I suspect Thibs is going to say something about DEFENSE in practice today, which would be propitious as the Sixers and Bulls beckon. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 25, 2021, 06:10:43 PM
10/25/21


Nice slate of games tonight.  Let's run it.


Bucks at Indiana
Bucks  -2
Pick is MILWAUKEE

Celtics at Charlotte
Celtics    -2
Pick is CHARLOTTE

Magic at Miami
Heat  -12.5
Pick is ORLANDO

Bulls at Toronto
Bulls   -1.5
Pick is TORONTO

Pistons at ATLANTA
Hawks  -10.5
Pick is ATLANTA

Wizards at Brooklyn
Nets   -5.5
Pick is WASHINGTON

Pelicans at Minnesota
Wolves  -5.5
Pick is MINNESOTA

Cavs at Denver
Nuggets   -9.5
Pick is CLEVELAND

Blazers at LA Clippers
Clippers   -3
Pick is LOS ANGELES

(real money not wagered - picks are for recreation, conversation)
Title: Chamaco's picks & fake money
Post by: carlos123 on October 25, 2021, 06:40:51 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on October 25, 2021, 06:10:43 PM
10/25/21

Nice slate of games tonight.  Let's run it.

(real money not wagered - picks are for recreation, conversation)

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/FlippantConcreteAustraliancurlew-max-1mb.gif)
Chamaco, I don't think your hero wants a conversation without money.
The rest of us just don't want a conversation about your picks.

(https://c.tenor.com/GCX_LC--nBMAAAAM/stuffed-garfield.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on October 25, 2021, 06:47:35 PM
Quote from: czarlos123 on October 24, 2021, 10:00:05 PM
What a storm of bricks!

Damn!!!

Quote from: BoZizzley on October 25, 2021, 01:47:17 AM
Nobody watched the game or has any useful analysis?


That's what you do!

(https://www.yellowbullet.com/attachments/steveo-gif.213669/)

(https://c.tenor.com/hqtGPeWXJJsAAAAC/minions-lol.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 25, 2021, 06:56:38 PM
MVP watch?  Nope.  No Randle.


https://www.nba.com/news/kia-mvp-ladder-21-early-names



Julius currently at 23.7 PER
28.7 points
11.3 rebounds
6.3 assists

for 2-1 Knicks

Yep - being 3-0 would have helped.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 25, 2021, 07:50:27 PM
Nobody in the Western Hemisphere thinks you can cover a bet, Kid. Go back to sleep
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 25, 2021, 08:14:00 PM
Shhhh.....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 25, 2021, 09:10:59 PM


Tatum having a nice game vs Hornets.  Close down stretch.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 26, 2021, 09:48:55 AM
Protests outside Barclay's Center forced a lockdown last night

"Let Kyrie Play", came the chants.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on October 26, 2021, 09:50:34 AM
Those are your people!!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 26, 2021, 10:10:02 AM
Well, bottom line is the law is dumb.  Civil liberties taken away.

Yes, I want to see Kyrie play.

Go ahead - tell me what might happen if he does.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on October 26, 2021, 10:14:44 AM
What civil liberties are those?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 26, 2021, 10:48:15 AM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on October 26, 2021, 10:14:44 AM
What civil liberties are those?

Same as given to someone who is GAY, who is BLACK, who is a WOMAN.

Discrimination in workplace shall not be tolerated.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on October 26, 2021, 10:52:22 AM
Interesting.  Now you're a legal scholar. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 26, 2021, 10:52:45 AM
Go ahead - tell me what might happen if he does.


Second request
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 26, 2021, 11:04:27 AM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on October 26, 2021, 10:52:22 AM
Interesting.  Now you're a legal scholar.

lol, he must prove his IQ is sub-50 about a dozen times a day.

Public health / immunization mandates a (great) part of American life since George Washington ordered his troops immunized. Health mandates by employer or government 100% OK'd and settled by the courts many times over.

This doesn't have $%# to do with Kyrie's rights.

It has everything to do with desire to posit himself faux-leader of flat earth knuckleheads and lack of desire to play basketball.

Still, great opp for Kiid to use two-or-three of daily his "I am Ass-clown stupid" demos...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 26, 2021, 11:08:45 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 26, 2021, 10:10:02 AM
Well, bottom line is the law is dumb.  Civil liberties taken away.

Yes, I want to see Kyrie play.

Go ahead - tell me what might happen if he does.

He might infect teammates, coaches, trainers, ticket-takers, anybody he interacts with....

Because he is about 70x more likely to catch or transmit covid than his vaccinated teammates.

That ticket-taker is unlikely to get sick...because he or she has to be vaxxed to be in the building...but can pass it on to others and keep the disease circulating among and killing the very elderly, the morons, the brainwashed, the immune-impaired unable to be vaxxed, and the young.

Testing is pretty good, but lag time between infection presentation causes problems - and no need to rely on it..

When we have three wonderful vaccines .

Let Kyrie's dumb ass stay home where he really wants to be anyway.

*** Further, it really fucks up everybody's right to enjoy an NBA season, unvaxxed player 70x more likely to breakthrough infect other players, put them into protocol and keep them off the floor, really unfair to other players and fully vaxxed teams like...the Knicks, why penalize them because Kyrie believes in vax-chips and demon sperm!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 26, 2021, 11:18:43 AM
So testing negative over and over signals to you that Irving will infect teammates?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 26, 2021, 11:20:21 AM
And his vaccinated teammates who are not being tested CANNOT get COVID and then infect a teammate?

Okey doke.  Can't argue with that logic
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 26, 2021, 11:22:55 AM
lol you really are the stupidest fuk ever lol...

his vaccinated teaamates who are not being tested are 70x less likely to get covid and infect a teammate...

testing is not infallible because of infection / presentation lag...even daily testing, vaccine provides infinitely better protection for players and the league and the community and the country, rofl..
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 26, 2021, 11:29:53 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 26, 2021, 11:20:21 AM
Okey doke.  Can't argue with that logic

Of course, you can't, because you're an imbecile, lol..and you've got 39 more minutes to hit your daily dozen certifications of that fact before noon.

Don't miss your chance!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 26, 2021, 11:48:57 AM
So it is highly unlikely that a vaccinated person infects someone.  Is this what you are saying Lester?

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on October 26, 2021, 11:49:34 AM
Lester, answered your repeated question Kid.  I couldn't do better or add anything.

But you still haven't explained how requiring an individual to be vaccinated is the "same" as discrimination against a person "who is GAY, who is BLACK, who is a WOMAN."

And for the record, I'm sure you don't believe that either. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 26, 2021, 12:53:44 PM
NBA Radio guys discussing which cities are/are not positive free agent destinations - in light of the Hawks executive's recent comments on his own glowing city and its prospects.

Chicago - YES
Atlanta - YES
New York - yes, then no (surprisingly)
Boston - NO
Philly - NO

Interesting

Boston cited for their past how many free agents not progressing in their career when joining up with the Tatums
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 26, 2021, 12:55:51 PM
But you still haven't explained how requiring an individual to be vaccinated is the "same" as discrimination against a person "who is GAY, who is BLACK, who is a WOMAN."


DISALLOWING this person to work - similar to discrimination based on sex, color, religion, straightness or other

You cannot earn here because you are_______.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 26, 2021, 12:57:14 PM
No

Lester has not answered 11:48:57 post
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 26, 2021, 01:27:38 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 26, 2021, 10:48:15 AM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on October 26, 2021, 10:14:44 AM
What civil liberties are those?

Same as given to someone who is GAY, who is BLACK, who is a WOMAN.

Discrimination in workplace shall not be tolerated.

You don't know what discrimination means.  If you are Gay, or black, or a woman you can't decide not to be.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 26, 2021, 01:36:11 PM
And for the record, I'm sure you don't believe that either.


I do believe it to be the same - in effect

Noting Kam's post, of course - which I am sure is behind your thinking as well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on October 26, 2021, 01:53:26 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 26, 2021, 12:55:51 PM
But you still haven't explained how requiring an individual to be vaccinated is the "same" as discrimination against a person "who is GAY, who is BLACK, who is a WOMAN."


DISALLOWING this person to work - similar to discrimination based on sex, color, religion, straightness or other

You cannot earn here because you are_______.
A legal scholar such as yourself should be able to understand the difference between those protected classes and those who choose not to be vaccinated.  That's not just mine or Kam's thinking by the way.  It's the law.  But since you're a legal scholar, I don't have to tell you that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 26, 2021, 02:02:32 PM
Quote from: Yankguy1 on October 26, 2021, 01:53:26 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 26, 2021, 12:55:51 PM
But you still haven't explained how requiring an individual to be vaccinated is the "same" as discrimination against a person "who is GAY, who is BLACK, who is a WOMAN."


DISALLOWING this person to work - similar to discrimination based on sex, color, religion, straightness or other

You cannot earn here because you are_______.
A legal scholar such as yourself should be able to understand the difference between those protected classes and those who choose not to be vaccinated. 

I just told you I did,

I don't think Kyrie playing basketball would harm anyone.  And NY is costing him money as well as legacy.

As I had stated earlier, you may see a lawsuit - which I am sure the state would gladly settle.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on October 26, 2021, 02:07:39 PM
You are "sure".  Well that's enough for me.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 26, 2021, 02:46:54 PM
So....

averaging a double double thus far...


JOKIC
ANTETEKOUMPO
A DAVIS
DONCIC
SABONIS
RANDLE
H BARNES
GOBERT
WOOD
VALENCIUNIS
HORFORD
VUCEVIC
ADEBAYO
ACHIUWA
PAUL
HOLMES
BEY
ADAMS
KUZMA
NURKIC


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 26, 2021, 03:17:26 PM
(25-15)


5 game slate tonight


Sixers at New York
Knicks  -2
Pick is NEW YORK

Warriors at Oklahoma City
Warriors   -9
Pick is GOLDEN STATE

Rockets at Dallas
Mavs  - 10.5
Pick is HOUSTON

Lakers at San Antonio
Spurs  - 2.5
Pick is LOS ANGELES

Nuggets at Utah
Jazz   - 7
Pick is DENVER

Title: Chamaco's picks #6
Post by: carlos123 on October 26, 2021, 03:36:23 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on October 26, 2021, 03:17:26 PM
(25-15)
WHO CARES?
5 game slate tonight


(https://c.tenor.com/__VDhGkDAAwAAAAd/mr-bean-bean.gif)

(https://c.tenor.com/60FGlAG-CywAAAAM/bored-bored-cat.gif) (https://c.tenor.com/TFRXoRikSoEAAAAC/donald-trump-thinking.gif)

PS-CHAMACO FEELS HE'S A VICTIM OF ANTI-ANTI-VAX AND ANTI-WHITE DISCRIMINATION
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTqNMrF9mTKtH883WgwItz3477YwWMb6zzRKSMOQrI3eQ00bfmFlivQU06e7tQP1uXP7ro&usqp=CAU)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 26, 2021, 04:17:22 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 26, 2021, 12:57:14 PM
No

Lester has not answered 11:48:57 post

Lol, lol, lol
Title: The Dumb Fuck Chronicles
Post by: chipstern on October 26, 2021, 04:20:16 PM
Someone close to me, got their two doses of the vaccine, but was working in an office with a prideful KiidKyrieDumbFuck. 

They came down with COVID, and were a few weeks coming out of it.  HOWEVER...HOWEVER

Because they were vaccinated, the condition did not advance, and other than missing a couple of weeks in the office [worked at home], no serious complications, no boa constrictors down their throat, no dire implications for their loved ones [vaccinated spouse, young child]. 

PLEASE NOTE: Their boss at work, commenting on the COVID infection, in a moment of EUREKA, allowed as how she felt good about her reckless behavior. "Well, this validates my decision not to get vaccinated."  SUCH HUBRIS.  There is a very good chance my friend picked up their infection from the office environment. 

Fuck her. 

Fuck Kyrie. 

And fuck you Kiid for your specious dumbfuck arguments and shameless invocation of social injustice issues you could give two frozen fucks about. 

As Dawg and others have pointed out, vaccinations are nothing new, nothing odd, nothing oppressive going back to George Washington making sure his troops were inoculated against smallpox. 

Polio.  Mumps.  Measles.  Chickenpox.  Tetanus.  The list goes on and on.  Toddlers have been routinely vaccinated as a prerequisite to attending public school.  FOR THEIR OWN PERSONAL SAFETY AND THAT OF THEIR FELLOW CHILDREN. 

Culture War Balderdash
Title: Chamaco now has a thing for Les
Post by: carlos123 on October 26, 2021, 05:17:18 PM
Quote from: Les on October 26, 2021, 04:17:22 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on October 26, 2021, 12:57:14 PM
No

Lester has not answered 11:48:57 post

Lol, lol, lol

Les, I think Chamaco gave up on ever getting Chip's attention and is now trying to get yours. Ain't you lucky!

Quote from: lesterluv on October 26, 2021, 11:04:27 AM
Public health / immunization mandates a (great) part of American life since George Washington ordered his troops immunized.

American History starts with Donald J Trump
Chamaco J Cartero
(J as in Jenius)
Title: Re: Chamaco now has a thing for Les
Post by: lesterluv on October 26, 2021, 06:38:10 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on October 26, 2021, 05:17:18 PM
Quote from: Les on October 26, 2021, 04:17:22 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on October 26, 2021, 12:57:14 PM

Lester has not answered 11:48:57 post

Lol, lol, lol

Les, I think Chamaco gave up on ever getting Chip's attention and is now trying to get yours. Ain't you lucky!


I knew he was gonna post some more ass-stupid crap before noon, but that didn't mean I was gonna stick around to watch...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 26, 2021, 06:48:15 PM
There are kids attending school without being vaccinated.

I think it may be about 2 per cent.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 26, 2021, 07:54:06 PM
That's just fantastic, kiid, thanks for letting us know!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 26, 2021, 08:10:52 PM
Kyrie + Beal = about one half of one per cent
Title: Really, really DUMB
Post by: carlos123 on October 26, 2021, 08:36:42 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on October 26, 2021, 08:10:52 PM
Kyrie + Beal = about one half of one per cent

GREAT! So the NBA can go on without them, won't even notice their absences. fukem!

BTW, GREAT GAME. KEMBA ON F'IN FIIIIIIIRE!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 26, 2021, 08:40:33 PM
Doc looks quite befuddled.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 26, 2021, 08:41:51 PM
Fantastic stuff, think the Obi finger roll past Drummond my fave play- his touch around the hoop is sublime, need a little of that to rub off on RJ
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 26, 2021, 09:37:39 PM
PHILLY CLEARLY NEEDS SIMMONS
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 26, 2021, 09:55:08 PM
lol, too bad he's scared to play!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 26, 2021, 09:57:17 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on October 26, 2021, 09:55:08 PM
lol, too bad he's scared to play!

Sorry....TOO BAD HE'S SCARED TO PLAY!

*** apparently he's getting mental health help from the players association so possibly that can change, lol, lol


****15 game losing streak over, THANK YOU KEMBA!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 26, 2021, 10:19:42 PM
That was really good. Philly is going to be pissed next time they see us. Chicago will also probably have their A game ready when they see us Thursday. That was an all hands on deck affair. I like how our second unit keeps after it while upping the pace.

The new muscle seemed to help Mitch in his match up with Embid.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 26, 2021, 10:21:06 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on October 26, 2021, 09:57:17 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on October 26, 2021, 09:55:08 PM
lol, too bad he's scared to play!

Sorry....TOO BAD HE'S SCARED TO PLAY!

*** apparently he's getting mental health help from the players association so possibly that can change, lol, lol


****15 game losing streak over, THANK YOU KEMBA!!!

Kemba and Derrick combined for 32.

Sweet

👁🖤👁

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 27, 2021, 01:16:23 PM
Chicago will be an interesting test. We beat Boston and Philly by putting the clamps on their number one options in Tatum and Embid and also keeping their tertiary guys in check. The second gunners went off in Brown and Harris as a byproduct of our scheme, but it was not enough to get them over the hump. I do not think Orlando has enough of an offensive identity yet to read that way.

Chicago has three top banana scorers in Lavine, DeRozan, and Vucavic. Scheming to take one away leaves room for a tandem that has the chops to score steadily all game. Do we just play our base defense with no shading? Do we trust our Bigs to handle Vuc and focus on jamming up one of the other two. I trust RJ & Burks on DeRozan more than I do Evan and IQ on Lavine. Maybe we get a shoot out and it is a matter of being the first team to 130.

Chicago is certainly tough to prep for. Fortunately you can hurt them with big men running the floor.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 27, 2021, 02:12:26 PM
After questionable shot selection !Q and a sloppy start to the 2Q, Knix bench got rolling and walloped PHI.    I like how Thibs brings in pairs of players.  Rose & Taj who know each other well.  And balance O & D.  Then IQ and ObiT (this game with Burks).  Knix 2nd unit brought energy.

Rose continues to score and get to all loose balls.  Knix best player so far.  Doc should have brought Thybulle in early on Rose, instead of waiting until late 3Q.  PHI playing without a PG, led to poor possessions, turnovers, bad shots, etc.  Korkmaz played Point for them most of the 2nd half.  Early Season Theme: It sure helps to have a legit PG.
PHI is designed for Simmons at Point.  And their shooters are not good ballhandlers or distributors.  Tobias had a strong game and defended Randle well.

Knix moved the ball, were coherent, got everyone involved.
Nice team W.

Embiid looked like he wanted to be elsewhere.  Desultory performance.  Mitch did a nice job.  Knix had some trouble figuring out their double teams, but still Embiid didn't make them pay (except some early FT's).

Knix still prone to some bad rotations and letting the corner spot-up player cut rimward.  Randle seemed to get tired 3Q/4Q and made some bad rotations.
You'd think Julius could play fewer than 36 minutes in an early blowout.

Give Knix credit for never letting PHI get back in to it or cut it under 14.
So far the PG's Knix have faced: Marcus Smart; Cole Anthony; Maxey
Title: Just gonna slide this under the door
Post by: Kam on October 27, 2021, 03:04:47 PM
(https://preview.redd.it/8d66qh8hjyv71.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=fe358eb1ce040e31c24b03e3d38658fcf07335f5)

That was a franchise-saving trade.   No matter what Bo says.   Could we have gotten MORE?  Yeah most likely.   But let's not be greedy : D
Title: Re: Just gonna slide this under the door
Post by: chipstern on October 27, 2021, 03:12:22 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 27, 2021, 03:04:47 PM
(https://preview.redd.it/8d66qh8hjyv71.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=fe358eb1ce040e31c24b03e3d38658fcf07335f5)

That was a franchise-saving trade.   No matter what Bo says.   Could we have gotten MORE?  Yeah most likely.   But let's not be greedy : D

Thanks Kam. 

I've had this argument with numerous peoples as to how we got ripped off in the Porzingis Trade, countering their contention that we got no players back, with the reality that we converted all of those expiring contracts and cap space into resources that we have seen blossom in the past year under Leon Rose and Thibs in the form of significant free agent upgrades and draft picks. 

Not sure with KP if it is the cumulative effect of his injuries, how he is being deployed or the karma of just being a dick.  Before he got hurt against the Bucks, he was really starting to ascend as a Knick. 
Title: Point Guards
Post by: chipstern on October 27, 2021, 03:19:33 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 27, 2021, 02:12:26 PM
After questionable shot selection !Q and a sloppy start to the 2Q, Knix bench got rolling and walloped PHI.    I like how Thibs brings in pairs of players.  Rose & Taj who know each other well.  And balance O & D.  Then IQ and ObiT (this game with Burks).  Knix 2nd unit brought energy.

Rose continues to score and get to all loose balls.  Knix best player so far.  Doc should have brought Thybulle in early on Rose, instead of waiting until late 3Q.  PHI playing without a PG, led to poor possessions, turnovers, bad shots, etc.  Korkmaz played Point for them most of the 2nd half.  Early Season Theme: It sure helps to have a legit PG.
PHI is designed for Simmons at Point.  And their shooters are not good ballhandlers or distributors.  Tobias had a strong game and defended Randle well.

Knix moved the ball, were coherent, got everyone involved.
Nice team W.

Embiid looked like he wanted to be elsewhere.  Desultory performance.  Mitch did a nice job.  Knix had some trouble figuring out their double teams, but still Embiid didn't make them pay (except some early FT's).

Knix still prone to some bad rotations and letting the corner spot-up player cut rimward.  Randle seemed to get tired 3Q/4Q and made some bad rotations.
You'd think Julius could play fewer than 36 minutes in an early blowout.

Give Knix credit for never letting PHI get back in to it or cut it under 14.
So far the PG's Knix have faced: Marcus Smart; Cole Anthony; Maxey

Julius still prone to turnovers when he tries to do too much, but the number of assists he consistently registers as a big man and our bell cow is impressive.  I thought that last night the sharing, ball movement, extra passes and getting everyone involved was significant. 

As per point guards, the Bulls' LONZO BALL represents a significant challenge to our ancient mariners Kemba and Derrick given his size and defensive prowess.   

PS: If Levine goes off on us, wonder if Thibs might supplement RJ and Burks with a cameo from Deuce to add some defensive pressure.  Unlikely, but Zach is not going to be stopped...at best, need to make him really work  for everything. 
Title: Kristap
Post by: chipstern on October 27, 2021, 04:31:58 PM
Out with backstiffness. Is anyone surprised?
Title: And Mitchell
Post by: elephant on October 27, 2021, 04:53:14 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 27, 2021, 04:31:58 PM
Out with backstiffness. Is anyone surprised?

Speaking of which.

Can Mitchell Robinson stay healthy?

He and Obi both play with such reckless abandon. But unlike with Obi, there's something about how Mitchell moves, how he leaps and lurches and slams to the ground, that just has you holding your breath. It's as if he's not in control of his body, and his chances of getting really, really hurt seem almost inevitable.

I take no pleasure in making that observation. I really like the guy and I hope I'm wrong. Maybe that kind of physical control I'm talking about can be learned. But you see so many guys in the NBA with a breathtaking balance of power and agility. Robinson sticks out in the other direction.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 27, 2021, 05:00:26 PM
Seeing a different Mitch this year

More "control", I'd say.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 27, 2021, 05:05:50 PM
Definitely stronger. That should help.

Still....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 27, 2021, 05:14:02 PM
(28-17)


Games for 10/27


Hornets at Orlando
Hornets   -5.5
Pick is ORLANDO

Miami at Brooklyn
Nets    -3.5
Pick is BROOKLYN

Pacers at Toronto
Raptors  -1
Pick is INDIANA

Hawks at New Orleans
Hawks  -5.5
Pick is ATLANTA

Wizards at Boston
Celtics   -4
Pick is BOSTON

Lakers at Oklahoma City
Lakers   -5
Pick is LOS ANGELES

Wolves at Milwaukee
Bucks  -6.5
Pick is MILWAUKEE

Kings at Phoenix
Suns  -8
Pick is SACRAMENTO

Grizzlies at Portland
Blazers  -2.5
Pick is MEMPHIS

Cavs at LA Clippers
Clippers   -8
Pick is CLEVELAND

Title: KNICK ON WOOD [Mitchell]
Post by: chipstern on October 27, 2021, 05:59:14 PM
Quote from: elephant on October 27, 2021, 04:53:14 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 27, 2021, 04:31:58 PM
Out with backstiffness. Is anyone surprised?

Speaking of which.

Can Mitchell Robinson stay healthy?

He and Obi both play with such reckless abandon. But unlike with Obi, there's something about how Mitchell moves, how he leaps and lurches and slams to the ground, that just has you holding your breath. It's as if he's not in control of his body, and his chances of getting really, really hurt seem almost inevitable.

I take no pleasure in making that observation. I really like the guy and I hope I'm wrong. Maybe that kind of physical control I'm talking about can be learned. But you see so many guys in the NBA with a breathtaking balance of power and agility. Robinson sticks out in the other direction.

Big men often have to grow into their bodies. 

Mitchell seems much more centered, so to speak, much more in control, than when he started out. 

Likewise his work habits and conditioning, vis a vis, Thibs raising the bar for him. 

I too wince every time he goes down. 

Still, our own Bill Cartwright went down twice with the same foot injury, and sat crying on the bench with "Knick Fans" booing him the second time, something which still rankles me. 

Mitchell has already gone down a couple of times so far, scaring the shit out of me, and he made a point of getting some treatment and coming back in the game. 

Right now I am more concerned about Nerlens, who seems to have lingering congenital knee problems.  He played through them all last season, so I am sure we will see him soon, but I suspect Thibs will be judicious about his usage...well, as Judicious as Thibs is about ANYONE'S USEAGE [see Kemba, Derrick, Julius]. 

I've been quite moved by Mitchell's intensity and sense of purpose.  He did a lot of things last night that don't show up in a box score. 
Title: Chamaco's picks #7
Post by: carlos123 on October 27, 2021, 06:27:42 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on October 27, 2021, 05:14:02 PM
(28-17)

Games for 10/27

(https://i.giphy.com/media/l3vRi0EtWE9RrFpDy/giphy.gif)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLUn219KK2EBio2g9kFVFjD-QGEjFyfIKl6tzV9bHGDDEK2vPkD-x71o0W3PlgW9hCls-HbjwJQF2Lwsie1d2p7SbHNk8mcQua6nIFxfVmSMAbn_i3of83cLg6oSRcH1QH0gAD5nhh48YZ0gbN3rMCab=w626-h570-no?authuser=0)
Title: Re: And Mitchell
Post by: Kam on October 27, 2021, 07:19:26 PM
Quote from: elephant on October 27, 2021, 04:53:14 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 27, 2021, 04:31:58 PM
Out with backstiffness. Is anyone surprised?

Speaking of which.

Can Mitchell Robinson stay healthy?

He and Obi both play with such reckless abandon. But unlike with Obi, there's something about how Mitchell moves, how he leaps and lurches and slams to the ground, that just has you holding your breath. It's as if he's not in control of his body, and his chances of getting really, really hurt seem almost inevitable.

I take no pleasure in making that observation. I really like the guy and I hope I'm wrong. Maybe that kind of physical control I'm talking about can be learned. But you see so many guys in the NBA with a breathtaking balance of power and agility. Robinson sticks out in the other direction.

Good observation.   

Maybe it's part of his athletic ability.  The legs are more on the thin and springy side than the thick and strong side.  Mitch has that awesome verticality and a stronger upper body these days, but it's all built on a slightly weaker base.   He needs to keep adding lower body strength to compensate for his lighter frame.  But yeah, the way he plays with the body he has, its always a bigger risk.   
Title: Re: Chamaco's picks #7
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 27, 2021, 10:23:01 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on October 27, 2021, 06:27:42 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on October 27, 2021, 05:14:02 PM
(28-17)

Games for 10/27

(https://i.giphy.com/media/l3vRi0EtWE9RrFpDy/giphy.gif)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLUn219KK2EBio2g9kFVFjD-QGEjFyfIKl6tzV9bHGDDEK2vPkD-x71o0W3PlgW9hCls-HbjwJQF2Lwsie1d2p7SbHNk8mcQua6nIFxfVmSMAbn_i3of83cLg6oSRcH1QH0gAD5nhh48YZ0gbN3rMCab=w626-h570-no?authuser=0)


0-6 so far

Hooooooot.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 27, 2021, 10:24:40 PM
Anyway - checking out - going to SOSH.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 27, 2021, 10:56:11 PM
Loved how Miami destroyed the Nyets. The Heat are tough if they can stay healthy.
Title: Mitchell
Post by: chipstern on October 28, 2021, 12:51:49 AM
Mitchell indicated that his off season weight training concentrated on his lower body so that he could go mano a mano with beefy centers such as Embid
Title: All Praise the New Rules
Post by: lesterluv on October 28, 2021, 11:47:43 AM
Let's take a moment to salute the restoration of basketball! Through five games, Harden doesn't have a single 5 FTA outing. Listening to the Nets game last night in the car, announcers just crying over the refs and rules. Lester Luvs it too much!


Title: Re: All Praise the New Rules
Post by: facilitatorn on October 28, 2021, 01:21:04 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on October 28, 2021, 11:47:43 AM
Let's take a moment to salute the restoration of basketball! Through five games, Harden doesn't have a single 5 FTA outing. Listening to the Nets game last night in the car, announcers just crying over the refs and rules. Lester Luvs it too much!

Better basketball all around.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 28, 2021, 09:05:06 PM
In less than a two minute span, Randle just had three assists leading to three 3-pointers.

Pretty cool.
Title: Kemba
Post by: chipstern on October 28, 2021, 09:27:45 PM
If this is a dream I don't want to wake up.
Title: Phew!!!
Post by: carlos123 on October 28, 2021, 10:37:34 PM
First I thought we all died and went to Knick heaven. Even Randle on a bad shooting game was 1 assist short of a triple-double, and Robinson was not hurt when he twisted his ankle.
Then the 3 minute nightmare.
And the savior? RJB! Flawless defense on DeRozan with the game on the line.
Phew!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 28, 2021, 10:39:53 PM
Good last play D by RJ. Good overall game by RJ. Kemba should not finish close games if Rose is available unless this was just part of a learning curve.

Bullet dodged. Good win.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 29, 2021, 01:28:26 AM
A win is a win.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 29, 2021, 02:12:50 AM
Mitch needs to find kicks as strong as his legs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 29, 2021, 07:09:42 AM
Knox completely out of the rotation.
11th man, or maybe 12th if Grimes is ahead of him.
And Nawlins will be back, further submerging Knox.
Also a shame our rooks don't get court time.

But Knix have depth.
Looks like Knix are on par with BOS, CHA, CHI.
But Knix have an advantage with depth, chemistry and vet leadership.
BOS doesnt have a PG; CHA relying on Hayward remaining mobile; and CHI has a weird fit, weak bench, limited D.

The only indispensable player for NYK is Randle.  And it'll be interesting to see how Knix do if he misses a game or any stretch of games.  Thibs plans on running Julius into the ground.  Worth monitoring how much Randle has left in 4Q's.
Nice that even on poor shooting nights, he bulls in and gets FT's and draws a crowd and kicks to open shooters.  Smart efficient hoops.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 29, 2021, 07:11:15 AM
Bulls game:
1Q:
Bulls hit a pair of 3's then go into a funk.  Don't they know that RJB goes left?   Don't they defend?  Vuc isn't stopping anyone down low.  Knix should pound Randle inside and PnR all night with Mitch.
Then CHI starts scoring with energy and Knix get sloppy and incoherent.
Looking like a game of runs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 29, 2021, 11:11:00 AM
We punched them.  They punched back.  We took their best and responded in kind.

Game was decided in the 1st quarter.   We held serve the rest of the game til the final fallout.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 29, 2021, 12:59:39 PM
Re:  "no improved East teams" (see preseason forumwide posts on subject)

Bulls, Wiz and Hornets all 4-1.

Knicks not at risk.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 29, 2021, 02:40:49 PM
Apparently due to falling after Robinson's flagrant foul Patrick Williams will miss the rest of the regular season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 29, 2021, 03:11:08 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 29, 2021, 12:59:39 PM
Re:  "no improved East teams" (see preseason forumwide posts on subject)
Bulls, Wiz and Hornets all 4-1.

I'm sure I wasn't the only one who noted the East was better.
The Bulls and Wiz restocked while CHA got Hayward back and Ball a year smarter.
Not to mention ATL healthier (Hunter back; Bogdan's knees hopefully better) and more experienced.  And MIA loaded up with Lowry.

You tend to make up nonsense fairy tales about a monolithic forum consensus being wrong and you the only visionary.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 29, 2021, 03:28:45 PM
Kind of a sloppy game, with neither team playing particularly well.
Knix kept finding somebody who would pop in a pair of 3's.  RJ early, then Kemba, Fournier.  Then Kemba again. That kept them ahead.

Too bad about Pat Williams.  Bulls don't have much depth.
And their interior D was already poor.  Williams is just a 6'7" PF.
4Q, Bulls mostly used PG Zo Ball was guarding Randle with Williams out.
Zo did a solid job defending Randle, who again looked wiped out late game.

Otherwise I had trouble figuring out what Ball's role was.  He was mostly guarded by Kemba half a foot shorter.  But they never posted Ball up.  Seemed like a good idea to make Kemba work on D and to try to force double teams.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 29, 2021, 03:35:55 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 29, 2021, 02:40:49 PM
Apparently due to falling after Robinson's flagrant foul Patrick Williams will miss the rest of the regular season.

Bulls are fucked, though they could still hang around for the play in.

Charlotte is probably legitimately in the 5, 6, 7 conversation.

I can see the Raptors coming on.

Indy
Title: Raising The Bar In The Eastern Conference
Post by: chipstern on October 29, 2021, 03:45:43 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 29, 2021, 03:11:08 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 29, 2021, 12:59:39 PM
Re:  "no improved East teams" (see preseason forumwide posts on subject)
Bulls, Wiz and Hornets all 4-1.

I'm sure I wasn't the only one who noted the East was better.
The Bulls and Wiz restocked while CHA got Hayward back and Ball a year smarter.
Not to mention ATL healthier (Hunter back; Bogdan's knees hopefully better) and more experienced.  And MIA loaded up with Lowry.

You tend to make up nonsense fairy tales about a monolithic forum consensus being wrong and you the only visionary.

WASHINGTON: Made out like Gangstas in dumping the Earthly remains of Wall for Westbrook, then cashing in Westbrook [Holiday, Harrell, Pope, Kuzma], drafting sniper Kispert, sophomore Avdija, that Brazilian MF Neto who lit us up, and Coach Unseld recasting the defensive identity in surrounding Beal with talent.  Harrell has been on fucking fire, as if to say, quite convincingly, "The Lakers really blew it."  And that other center, Gafford is it, who was a block machine in our last meeting, and Bryant coming back.  They fucked up the Hawks last night.  They scare me.   

CHARLOTTE:  Bridges making a Big BIG Jump.  LaMelo a year older and wiser.  A healthy Hayward.  McDaniels and Martin, Plumlee and Rozier...OUBRE.  Dangerous.  Young talent like sniper Bouknight and PF Kai Jones, whom we drafted for them at #19, not seeing much daylight if any.  Tough matchup for the Knicks. 

MIAMI: Tough guys Kyle Lowry AND PJ Tucker join UberThibs enforcer Jimmy Butler, Bam a very hungry force at center, very underrated in the scheme of things, snipers Duncan and Tyler.  SCARY TOUGH.  Hell, let Nunn walk without losing any sleep.  DEFENSE

CHICAGO: Weak bench, but adding DeRozan and Ball [despite soso offensive game last night, was defending Julius quite effectively] and cashing in Carter for Vucevic during Orlando fire sale, well, we saw how combustible they could be in the final 2 minutes last night.  PS: When Mitchell went down, as per sofarsogood, he got up.  Soph Patrick Williams, the #4 pick last season, did not.  Out for the season with a serious wrist injury. 

ATLANTA: Deep. 

INDIANA: Turner healthy.  Duarte a significant addition.  Don't sleep on them. 

TORONTO: Don't sleep on them.  Waiting to get Siakim back.  Anunoby and Achiuwa tough young front line players.  Gary Trent Junior for Norman Powell was a steal.  Van Vleet always dangerous.  Scottie Barnes may be rookie of the year.  The offense will come, and he does everything else in the way of facilitating, boarding and can defend 1-through-5--great talent AND spirit.   

Title: Schedule
Post by: chipstern on October 29, 2021, 03:53:10 PM
Some tough tests a coming, particularly a home and away with the Bucks.  The Suns, the Nyets, the Hawks...a return engagement with the Sixers, likely with Gentle Ben...

Sat, Oct 30   
@
New Orleans
New Orleans
7:00 PM      Tickets as low as $5

Mon, Nov 1   
vs
Toronto
Toronto
7:30 PM   
NBA TV
Tickets as low as $52

Wed, Nov 3   
@
Indiana
Indiana
7:00 PM      Tickets as low as $11

Fri, Nov 5   
@
Milwaukee
Milwaukee
7:30 PM   

Tickets as low as $31

Sun, Nov 7   
vs
Cleveland
Cleveland
6:00 PM      Tickets as low as $49

Mon, Nov 8   
@
Philadelphia
Philadelphia
7:00 PM      Tickets as low as $15

Wed, Nov 10   
vs
Milwaukee
Milwaukee
7:30 PM      Tickets as low as $107

Fri, Nov 12   
@
Charlotte
Charlotte
7:00 PM      Tickets as low as $21

Mon, Nov 15   
vs
Indiana
Indiana
7:30 PM      Tickets as low as $44

Wed, Nov 17   
vs
Orlando
Orlando
7:30 PM      Tickets as low as $40

Sat, Nov 20   
vs
Houston
Houston
5:00 PM      Tickets as low as $65

Sun, Nov 21   
@
Chicago
Chicago
8:00 PM      Tickets as low as $48

Tue, Nov 23   
vs
Los Angeles
Los Angeles
7:30 PM   
TNT
Tickets as low as $212

Fri, Nov 26   
vs
Phoenix
Phoenix
7:00 PM      Tickets as low as $117

Sat, Nov 27   
@
Atlanta
Atlanta
7:30 PM      Tickets as low as $44

Tue, Nov 30   
@
Brooklyn
Brooklyn
7:30 PM   
TNT
Tickets as low as $61

Thu, Dec 2   
vs
Chicago
Chicago
7:30 PM   
NBA TV
Tickets as low as $83

Sat, Dec 4   
vs
Denver
Denver
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 29, 2021, 05:30:53 PM
It was ELEPHANT that had the East NOT improving so much - after checking the forum.

But here is FAC's prognostication

Regular season, sorted by tier and not by position in tier

Tier1 above 50
Tier2 above 44
Tier3 above 40
Tier4 above 32
Tier5 32 or lower

Bucks Hawks Nyets Philly
Miami NY Chicago
Boston Indiana
Toronto Charlotte Washington
Cleveland Detroit Orlando
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 29, 2021, 05:43:55 PM
It is a long season so a lot can change. I am curious how those tiers look in January.

The range of ticket prices for upcoming games was very interesting. Thanks, Chip.

The scrum in the East is shaping up to be quite fun.

Remember, the two starphucked franchises in our division are working day and night to strengthen their squads. Odds are sooner or later one or both will succeed and become once more capable of stringing wins together and rising in the standings.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 29, 2021, 05:56:49 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 29, 2021, 05:30:53 PM
It was ELEPHANT that had the East NOT improving so much - after checking the forum.


Dude, I don't know if it's bad memory or making it up as you go, but I never said that. A couple of weeks back, I wrote,

New York Knicks Under 41.5?
Trying to avoid being a big homer here, but I don't understand the Vegas line.
This is shaping up to be one of the best Knicks teams we've seen in years.
(and it's not like the East is full of powerhouse teams to boot).

YOU wrote:
I think the line reflects what so many on the forum (including me at this time) choose to overlook - that other teams in the East are vastly improved. Now, is Thibs such a great coach that we will WIN (often closely) on many nights when the opponent is a monster?
Maybe.

And I wrote:
"Vastly improved?"
Chicago and Miami will be interesting to watch. Is Philly vastly improved? The Hornets? The Celtics may be improved, but significantly so?
I guess we'll see.But yeah, the question of how we fare against the best will be key.

Next thing we know, you're saying that the forum believed there were "no improved East teams". Then later, you're saying it was I "that had the East NOT improving so much."

I mean basically NOBODY said that the East wasn't improving. Sheesh.

(And yeah, I promise never to waste 10 minutes of my life like this again).

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 29, 2021, 05:57:58 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 29, 2021, 05:43:55 PM
It is a long season so a lot can change. I am curious how those tiers look in January.

The range of ticket prices for upcoming games was very interesting. Thanks, Chip.

The scrum in the East is shaping up to be quite fun.

Remember, the two starphucked franchises in our division are working day and night to strengthen their squads. Odds are sooner or later one or both will succeed and become once more capable of stringing wins together and rising in the standings.

I think both Charlotte and Washington stand to be as good if not better than Boston and Indiana. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 29, 2021, 06:22:13 PM
It looks that way so far.
Title: Harden With A Hard On
Post by: chipstern on October 29, 2021, 09:02:54 PM
Nyets in a dog fight with the Pacers. 

Harden 10-11 from the FT line in the first half. 

Dare say he and Coach Nash watched some film.  Steve didn't get to the FT line that much back in the day, but was a career 90% converting.  Now three pointers?  He converted A LOT, on the order of 423% for his career, which is pretty dope.  Whereas Harden's game IS GETTING TO THE FT LINE, on the order of 800 + Plus in several seasons. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 30, 2021, 12:57:51 AM
I do not know which was more enjoyable, Denver throttling Dallas or Miami smacking Charlotte. They were both fun to watch.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 30, 2021, 03:02:52 AM
The Pels are gonna be pissed.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 30, 2021, 04:24:23 AM
IND has a solid team, but not much depth and injury problems.
TJ War is out; LaVert has back issues, Brogdon missed the BKY game with a hammy.
Hard to win with 3 starters out.
Given good health, they are a quality team.  And Carlisle a top coach.
Duarte, 24 year old rook, looks promising.  But forced to start with Caris encrippled.

A lot of how the East shakes out might come down to injuries and availability.
Kyrie & Simmons notoriously sabotaging their respective squads.
Siakim has been out.  IND continued health woes.
We'll see if Hayward holds up.  CHI starting PF just dropped.
ATL & NYK have sufficient depth to withstand injuries/absence.
Probably BKY as well.  LMA has played well.

Bulls, Heat, Celts have thin benches.
BOS and PHI playing without genuine PG's.
Interesting season.

I really havent really seen the West except some GSW, SAC and LAL.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 30, 2021, 05:42:31 AM
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/obi-toppin-is-proving-capable-of-a-bigger-role-that-the-knicks-dont-seem-ready-to-give-him/

I don't particularly agree.
ObiT improves his D (and 3's) and he'll see more time.
And if he has to bide his time as a 15 min backup again this year, so be it.
Howsoever, Thibs could play Randle fewer minutes (say 33 a night) which would keep Julius fresher late game and give ObiT more run.

Who cares if Gibson is 36?  He provides energy and defensive focus/toughness, which this team needs.  This year's edition of NYK doesn't need more mins for a weak defender.  And I'm unconvinced that Randle and ObiT are a good pairing (due to D and the fact we have 3 quality C's).  ObiT has done better on D, mostly because he hustles and gets back in plays even when blown past.  On the interior, both ObiT and Randle have shown some quick hands, and ability to snuff out some rim attacks.  But both need to do better on rotations and perimeter D.  OBiT benefits from getting to play with Rose on the 2nd unit.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 30, 2021, 10:13:14 AM
Oakley was at the BKY game.

IND nearly had a McConnell/Torey Craig led comeback.  Really could have used Brogdon.
Nets doing odd things like Durant at the 3-point line passes to Harden 6 feet away and the pass bounces off Harden who wasn't expecting it.  Fortunately, LMA was sharp.

3:24 left, Nets up by 6.  KD gets a rebound, tosses it to Harden who dribbles once, palms it with his right hand and switches it to his left hand without putting the ball down, as he continues to take steps, then palms it with his right hand two dribbles later as he crosses midcourt.  No one seemed to notice.  I guess if you nonchalantly travel twice in the backcourt it can go unobserved.

McConnell and Duarte were just chumping Joe Harris and Harden's "defense".
Harris dies on one late Sabonis screen, and looks for Harden, who is casually watching 4 feet below the screen, not getting near either the screener or ballhandler.  IND gets an open 3.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 30, 2021, 11:13:44 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 30, 2021, 05:42:31 AM
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/obi-toppin-is-proving-capable-of-a-bigger-role-that-the-knicks-dont-seem-ready-to-give-him/

I don't particularly agree.


Yeah, Taj is STILL helping to win games for us. Honestly...rest of the post lost due to auto truncate, what's the secret again to actually posting?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 30, 2021, 11:15:44 AM
Continued..... I don't see a problem either. Opportunities open up. Long season. See Patrick Williams, Nerlins Noel, Mitch Robinson et all.... and I'm loving my OBI and his development path, if it keeps curving up he'll get plenty. That said, I'd surely agree with starting to call his number more often and more creatively when he is in. But it's coming.

My buddy just pointed out to me how he came into the league pegged as high floor / low ceiling, but it's actually quite the opposite. Despite being touted as the most NBA READY, he looked pretty lost at first, yet really, there's absolutely no ceiling on this kid who has already grown tremendously and may just have the best hands around the basket in the NBA. That touch. That ability to modify depending on what the defense is doing. Change slam to finger roll. Catch it high. Catch it low. This side. That side. A gift.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 30, 2021, 04:04:37 PM
So Ja Morant is the new Derrick Rose.  Herky-jerky, change of pace, with absolute blow by speed.  And since this is the new era, Ja already developing his 3-ball.
Under 4 mins left, Memf down 2, DrayGreen switches on to Morant.  Who backs it up and then launches a 28 footer.  Swish for the lead.  Having fun, Ja holds his shooting pose as he dances all the way to the FT line.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 30, 2021, 09:41:53 PM
Still with a lot to dial in, we move to 5 and 1 behind a barrage of 3s. How sweet it is.

Celtics having a hard time with double overtime games so far.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 31, 2021, 12:57:42 PM
A weak team with its two top scorers out.  Scrapped and fought.
Knix lucky they were hitting 3.'s.
Career game for RJB, who was dishing and swishing nicely.
Some bad passes and poor transition D.
Randle in particular tends to get back and guard no one.
Bad habit to start the season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 31, 2021, 09:06:25 PM
Like I said, a lot to dial in.

Luck may not have as much to do with our 3 pt shooting as you suppose. It may be more that we work at it and are reliably pretty good. That will be tested of course, and it will be a long season.

Raps a tough test coming next. We will see who steps up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 31, 2021, 09:54:02 PM
Nobody getting better in the East

https://sports.yahoo.com/nba/standings/
Title: FRANK
Post by: chipstern on October 31, 2021, 10:47:58 PM
Good outing in a Dallas win

🏆
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 31, 2021, 11:14:27 PM
So if you are the Raptors, with their new found prize in Barnes and apparent chemistry, wouldnt you consider putting Siakam on the block now?

Once Pascal comes back, less of everything form OG and Scottie, Svi and one or two others.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 01, 2021, 12:17:43 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on September 24, 2021, 01:22:07 PM
I guess something like Siakim + Dragic + ____ could cover.
Dragic and Maxey could be an adequate platoon.

or

Quote
Simmons + Thybulle & Springer = Siakim + FVV

FVV - Scurry - Siakim - Tobias - Embiid
That's a powerhouse starting 5.
And still a solid (though unproven) bench of Maxey - Korkmaz - Shake - Niang - Drummond

TOR:
Simmons - Trent - Anunoby - Barnes - Boucher
A real athletic starting 5.
Also fairly deep:
Dragic/Flynn - Springer/Svi - Thybulle - Achiuwa - Birch
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 01, 2021, 12:18:13 AM
Fuck these assholes


https://www.npr.org/2021/10/28/1050175142/naacp-pro-athletes-not-sign-texas-teams-voting-abortion-laws
Title: Re: FRANK&KP
Post by: carlos123 on November 01, 2021, 12:23:40 AM
Quote from: chipstern on October 31, 2021, 10:47:58 PM
Good outing in a Dallas win

🏆

And how about KP. What is his injury now?

KP tosses salads in Dallas
The Kamster

(KP elsewhere=Good riddance)
Title: Oh dear 👀
Post by: carlos123 on November 01, 2021, 12:46:27 AM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on November 01, 2021, 12:18:13 AM
Fuck these assholes


https://www.npr.org/2021/10/28/1050175142/naacp-pro-athletes-not-sign-texas-teams-voting-abortion-laws

Dear Old boy Chamaco,
What is your quarrel with the NAACP?
I cannot begin to imagine 🙄
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 01, 2021, 02:07:02 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 01, 2021, 12:18:13 AM
Fuck these assholes


https://www.npr.org/2021/10/28/1050175142/naacp-pro-athletes-not-sign-texas-teams-voting-abortion-laws

Fuck the republicans running Texas into the ground. Kick them out of office and put them on chain gangs where they belong.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 01, 2021, 09:16:54 AM
Word.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 01, 2021, 01:49:41 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on October 30, 2021, 11:13:44 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 30, 2021, 05:42:31 AM
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/obi-toppin-is-proving-capable-of-a-bigger-role-that-the-knicks-dont-seem-ready-to-give-him/

I don't particularly agree.


Yeah, Taj is STILL helping to win games for us. Honestly...rest of the post lost due to auto truncate, what's the secret again to actually posting?

Take whatever your copied text is and remove any ellipsis ... and any apostro'phe before pasting here. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 01, 2021, 03:23:34 PM
Quote
Suns decline third-year option on Jalen Smith, making former top-10 pick a free agent in 2022
6 games into his 2nd season and PHX isn't willing to commit $4.7M to last year's #10 pick. 
Taken two picks after ObiT and two picks ahead of TyHallibut.
I thought it was a terrible pick by PHX, though kiid assured me I was wrong.
Smith and Kilian Hyaes were the most likely Top 10 busts from the 2020 draft.

Said to be a deep draft.
But picks 5-9 are all coming off the bench, while #10 Smith is a DNP even though Saric is out for the year.  Interesting too that 2, 4, 5, 6 were all defensive players (Wiseman, Pat Williams, Okoro, Okongwu).

As for Pat Williams, he was coming along somewhat slowly.  Bulls could sure use Markkanan about now.  But they also could have simply traded Markk for Nance.  Instead they 3-teamed it and got Derrick Jones Jr. and gave up a 1st rounder.  Er ... DJ Jr was out of the rotation until the Williams injury.  Unimpressive.  But an opportunity for Jones to get back on track.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 01, 2021, 06:14:21 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 01, 2021, 01:49:41 PM
Take whatever your copied text is and remove any ellipsis ... and any apostro'phe before pasting here.

thanks..driving me nuts..
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 01, 2021, 06:38:07 PM
Suns decline third year option on Jalen Smith, making former top 10 pick a free agent in 2022


Restricted

Solid resume

https://www.nba.com/draft/2020/prospects/jalen-smith#/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 01, 2021, 06:45:28 PM
Bridges and Shamet get major boost in dollars next year and Suns looking to fit Ayton in.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 01, 2021, 09:34:53 PM
Fuckin joke

https://sports.yahoo.com/kevin-love-tobias-harris-khris-middleton-all-land-nba-covid19-coronavirus-health-and-safety-protocol-bucks-cavaliers-76ers-235438390.html
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 01, 2021, 10:32:44 PM
On the contrary, great stuff, the NBA once again leading the way in handling the pandemic among sports leagues! Fewer athletes, trainers, coaches, kids, parents, cousins, friends, families impacted by the bad disease. Nice!

*** anyway kiid, it could be worse, much worse, lol, lol, lol: https://nationalpost.com/news/world/thousands-of-guests-locked-in-shanghai-disneyland-after-woman-tests-covid-19-positive

Not nice: Randall setting the stage for us to squander a game by following the perfect execution of the first quarter with an unending streak of boneheaded selfishness, machismo and laziness to end the second. Bad shot after turnover after.... just ugly...big lead gone poof for no reason. Then,  Raps brought the championship defense. Live and learn. Lots to learn!

Really really nice: Watching idiots lose their jobs for turning down the jab thus raising the collective IQ's of governments, agencies and companies across the country!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 01, 2021, 10:37:18 PM
Yeah Kemba and Randle fumbled and bumbled this one away. Drive and kick was working so we switched to face up and bull through. Rough. Let us never do that again.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 02, 2021, 01:08:56 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 01, 2021, 06:38:07 PM
Suns decline third year option on Jalen Smith, making former top 10 pick a free agent in 2022

Restricted

Nope.
The Suns are declining the third-year rookie option on Jalen Smith. That will make the former top-10 choice an unrestricted free agent after only his second NBA season.  (https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/suns-decline-third-year-option-on-jalen-smith-making-former-top-10-pick-a-free-agent-in-2022-per-report/)

Quote
Rookie-scale contracts for first-round picks only have two guaranteed seasons. They then include two team options that must be decided upon early in the preceding season.

Decline the team option and you have no extant rights.

Moreover, Suns are restricted in what they can offer Jalen Smith if they want to keep him:
Quote
When a team declines a rookie option, the most it is allowed to pay that player the following off season is whatever the amount that option would have paid him. In Smith's case, that would have been roughly $4.7 million.

So they can try to retain Smith for less than that if they still have any interest.
Also, any team could offer $5M+ and outbid PHX.

Even though a guy at his position (PF - Saric) is out for the year, Smith couldn't crack the rotation and PHX is willing to drop him for $4.7M.  Extremely unimpressive.  Teams just don't give up the rights to #10 draft picks a two weeks into their 2nd season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 02, 2021, 01:13:51 AM
So that's 3 out of 7 games in which a wing went off for a career high v. NYK.
Jaylen 46 in G1; Ross a 22 point 4Q; OhGee Anunoby dropping 36.
Two of those were losses and the other a 2OT W.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 02, 2021, 01:15:43 AM
Trent looked great out there on both ends.

Weird with Randle. Scored 18 in the first quarter and then had one of the worse games I've seen him play.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 02, 2021, 02:15:16 AM
Taj sprained his ankle so gets some daddy time in while he heals. Next man up. If Nerlins is ready it is probably him. I would rather see more Obi at this point instead.

Toronto has damn good defensive pieces. When we see them again they likely will have added Pascal and Scotty to the mix. Getting good looks will be tough.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 02, 2021, 07:57:00 AM
 Simms

Lets see Simms.  And Grimes/McBride ten plus minute games couldn't hurt.

Re:  Raptors

Forget what I said about Siakam leaving.  He played the role of excellent team guy last night

Interesting that a good portion of the Miami haul was also missing for TOR.  They're deep.

Teams are giving us trouble with young legs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 02, 2021, 08:19:34 AM
Rose minutes last 4

19 18 15 19
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 02, 2021, 11:49:01 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 02, 2021, 07:57:00 AM
Simms

Lets see Simms.  And Grimes/McBride ten plus minute games couldn't hurt.

.....

Interesting that a good portion of the Miami haul was also missing for TOR.  They're deep.

Teams are giving us trouble with young legs.

young legs contributing all over the league..yes, time to see our own
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Hamilton Samuels on November 02, 2021, 12:06:34 PM
If you've never seen this, you should watch it.

"Know why everybody plays well in Boston? You can't go out." ---John Salley

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=An5a7Qakrig (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=An5a7Qakrig)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 02, 2021, 12:51:36 PM
Thanks for the link.  I was a Tech fan when Salley was there (my college days).

Took me to this as well

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKYcoB75UHo
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 02, 2021, 12:59:40 PM
1Q:
TOR ballhandling is terrible.  So they wind up taking tough contested shots.
They do get up on guys on D.  SVi in particular has been battling Randle and draped all over Fournier.     
2Q
Knix continue bombing in 3's, a la the CHI game, including a Randle banker and Kemba ending the half with a front-rim-backboard kiss-and drop in 3.
TOR plays hard.
Trent looking smooth.
I thought he was excellent his last year in POR and a steal in the trade for Powell.  But POR needed wing defense more than another smallish shooter/scorer.  So good trade for both teams.  Both players got paid well, as I recall.

3Q
Knix getting sloppy.  Randle losing focus. 
RJB sharp.
FVV looks slow and plodding.  You think he could bully Kemba.
(FVV perks up mid 3Q mostly with long 3's and good passes.  Still looks slow)

OBiT enters and immediately TOR puts Kemba/ObiT into a high PnR for an easy FVV to OG oop.  Soon after Toppin overhelps in the paint unnecessarily leaving Svi open for a 3.
OG posts ObiT, gets blocked.  Nice.  A little later ObiT shoots a straight on 3 that misses the rim.  Yikes.

1:40 left 3Q, TOR inbounding with 2.7 on the shotclock.  Randle stands in the paint guarding no one.  For some reason TOR doesn't throw it to SVi wide open  at the 3 point line (backboard in the way?), so Svi cuts and blows right past a bewildered Randle for a catch and slam.  I really don't get these plays, usually transition, where Randle guards no one.  But guarding the paint and then being unaware as a guy blows past for a slam is inexplicable.  Mentally tired?

Ugly 3Q.  Knick bench didn't provide a lift.  Rose quiet.

TOR played tough.  Looked like playoff defense all night.  Especially impressed by Trent and Svi.  While Biurch did the dirty work.I think FVV knocked away two o-boards from Mitch.
Title: Julius
Post by: chipstern on November 02, 2021, 01:16:37 PM
Strange

First quarter as well as he has played, as iconic a team performance as I've seen, and everyone prospered.

Then we went from the Bird Boston Celtics to the Globetrotter Washington Generals. 

There was one possession, one lousy possession, when, after texting two friends that they owed Julius an apology, minimally, after 18 points and a bushel of rebounds and assists, in which they Knicks drove and kicked, drove and kicked, drove and kicked, ending with one trey after another, they set up in the paint, and I went "UH OH" as you could see Julius think, I'm in the groove tonight, and he went from Dr. Jekyll to Mister Hyde, as all ball movement henceforth ceased, and our Captain consciously trended into Hero Ball, dribble, back in, dribble, back in, forcing the action, people standing around, and the Raptors pounced as we went out of rhythm and began savaging us on defense.  And Julius and the Knicks racked up one turnover and mucked up possession after another, and OB began to punk JR offensively. 

And this without Scottie Barnes or Siakim.  Impressive.  Ad Nun and Trent just killed us [and to repeat a previous post, what were the Blazers thinking when they traded Trent for Powell?]

And we trended downward, reverting to pre-Thibs empowering of three point shooters. 

Big difference, Thibs did not adjust, and it took well into the second half for us to find RJ, as my snakebit hero JR made one turnover after another.

Lazy?  Not so much of effort as of THE THOUGHT PROCESS. 

And as for Thibs thought process? 

* We missed Taj

* Thibs continued to ride JR for 37 minutes.  Know he is in great condition, but really, how much sleep is he getting with a new baby, and he ain't Wilt Chamberlain, leave him some legs, Thibs. And I mean, while his stat line looked good [7-14/4-7 from trey, 22-9-5], he and Kemba were a team bleeding/leading -14 and -15 respectively.  After scoring 18 in the first quarter, he only scored 4 in the subsequent three quarters.  HOW IS THAT EVEN POSSIBLE? 

* Quickley is really struggling.  REALLY STRUGGLING, and Thibs does not want to sunder the waning confidence of one of his prize puppies, but as Gary Trent is going off, might it not be worth a look-see from Deuce McBride to see if our defensive mad dawg could stop the bleeding?  Ironically, despite an ugly 1-for-7, IQ finished the game a +7, along with Taj and Rose, tied with Julius for a team high five assists, so maybe Thibs is seeing other things, even as the shooting struggles continue. 

Curious how the entire team went into a deep funk after the first.  Let's credit the Raptors D, whether in or out of a zone, which was FUCKING SAVAGE.  Man to man they were all over our guys like ugly on an ape, not looking for help or switches as Clyde pointed out.  THEY EXERTED THEIR WILL ON US.  Impressive.  And our defense was just terrible.  Not fun to watch as a Knicks fan, OR AS THE KNICKS COACH, but a teachable moment. And again, boy did we miss Taj.   

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 02, 2021, 01:36:27 PM
Norman Powell - salries

15
16
18
19
20
- full guarantee

Trent salaries

16
17
18 (team option)

Powell the better player - no doubt
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 02, 2021, 02:30:20 PM
I like Trent better than Powell.
But it matters what you need.
POR has two G's who can shoot lights out.  Weren't going to dump big money on Trent.
Have been trying to add defensive wings.  Covington, Derrick Jones Jr then Powell.
TOR needed more shooting rather than another hustle wing defender (they have Siakim and OG).  I think both teams got what they wanted out of the swap.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 02, 2021, 03:26:31 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 02, 2021, 12:59:40 PM
1Q:
TOR ballhandling is terrible.  So they wind up taking tough contested shots.
They do get up on guys on D.  SVi in particular has been battling Randle and draped all over Fournier.     
2Q
Knix continue bombing in 3's, a la the CHI game, including a Randle banker and Kemba ending the half with a front-rim-backboard kiss-and drop in 3.
TOR plays hard.
Trent looking smooth.
I thought he was excellent his last year in POR and a steal in the trade for Powell.  But POR needed wing defense more than another smallish shooter/scorer.  So good trade for both teams.  Both players got paid well, as I recall.

3Q
Knix getting sloppy.  Randle losing focus. 
RJB sharp.
FVV looks slow and plodding.  You think he could bully Kemba.
(FVV perks up mid 3Q mostly with long 3's and good passes.  Still looks slow)

OBiT enters and immediately TOR puts Kemba/ObiT into a high PnR for an easy FVV to OG oop.  Soon after Toppin overhelps in the paint unnecessarily leaving Svi open for a 3.
OG posts ObiT, gets blocked.  Nice.  A little later ObiT shoots a straight on 3 that misses the rim.  Yikes.

1:40 left 3Q, TOR inbounding with 2.7 on the shotclock.  Randle stands in the paint guarding no one.  For some reason TOR doesn't throw it to SVi wide open  at the 3 point line (backboard in the way?), so Svi cuts and blows right past a bewildered Randle for a catch and slam.  I really don't get these plays, usually transition, where Randle guards no one.  But guarding the paint and then being unaware as a guy blows past for a slam is inexplicable.  Mentally tired?

Ugly 3Q.  Knick bench didn't provide a lift.  Rose quiet.

TOR played tough.  Looked like playoff defense all night.  Especially impressed by Trent and Svi.  While Biurch did the dirty work.I think FVV knocked away two o-boards from Mitch.

Glad you mentioned SVI.  Early on his defensive effort and physicality was so tenacious, I think it really lifted all the Raptors. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 02, 2021, 05:00:31 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 02, 2021, 02:30:20 PM
I like Trent better than Powell.
But it matters what you need.
POR has two G's who can shoot lights out.  Weren't going to dump big money on Trent.
Have been trying to add defensive wings.  Covington, Derrick Jones Jr then Powell.
TOR needed more shooting rather than another hustle wing defender (they have Siakim and OG).  I think both teams got what they wanted out of the swap.

Powell is 38% for career from deep

And 50-40-90 this year (just 5 games)

2 good players

One more seasoned.  The notion that the younger guy could POP is not lost on me, as I certainly dont dislike GTJ.  Good analysis on the "helped both teams"
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 03, 2021, 02:46:33 AM
Yeah, I'll take that back.
I like both Trent and Powell.
I'm more intrigued by Trent.
But it depends what you need.
I thought Powell went from underrated to overrated, but that's often how the NBA consensus goes,
and no reason to knock a solid player.  I think Powell has tamed his earlier wildness,
but I should try to see some POR games. 

The Knick game was the best defensive game I've seen from Trent.  He was feisty and involved.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 03, 2021, 02:51:35 AM
I don't get why Dragic isn't playing.  FVV looked slow.  Flynn looked quick and decent.  But sure looked like they could have used some seasoned floor generalship, especially 1st half when they were running a go-nowhere offense and taking tough shots (frequently blocked).

Funny, I saw one half of a MIA game and Butler struggled.  Had no lift on a layup attempt that got blocked.  Had a turnover, short on a jumper or two.  Somebody blew by him for a layup.  Looked like heavy legs.  But now I see he's been otherwise killing it.  East Player of the Week.  Etc.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 03, 2021, 06:32:20 AM
Wow, PHI beat POR with both Embiid & Tobias (something CV-related -- might miss some time).  Powell was team high with 22. 
Bulldog Drummond 14 points (on 11FG), 17 Boards, 7 assists, 5 steals.  Nurk just 7 points.

POR just seems to have a ceiling with Lillard-McCollum,
Dame - CJ - Powell - Covington - Nurkic
On paper, looks promising, but they underperform every year.
Zeller, Simons, Nance, Little, Snell -- an adequate bench.
They need to make a bold move as the they can't find fill-ins that work.

Heard on the DAL broadcast: "Halleluca"
Amusing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 03, 2021, 10:59:34 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 03, 2021, 02:46:33 AM
Yeah, I'll take that back.
I like both Trent and Powell.
I'm more intrigued by Trent.
But it depends what you need.
I thought Powell went from underrated to overrated, but that's often how the NBA consensus goes,
and no reason to knock a solid player.  I think Powell has tamed his earlier wildness,
but I should try to see some POR games. 

The Knick game was the best defensive game I've seen from Trent.  He was feisty and involved.

Cool conversation though -a s we look at a 22-23 year old vs someone who is 28

Both second round picks - making execs appear a bit foolish.  TRENT had the pedigree - and had a GREAT 1-year at Duke.  Was puzzling at the time to see him in round 2. 

EUROS often take the first round spots off "potential" as everyone seeks the next Petrovic/Jokic/Doncic/Nowitzki...

Enjoy the day
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 03, 2021, 11:05:14 AM
POR just seems to have a ceiling with Lillard-McCollum,
Dame - CJ - Powell - Covington - Nurkic
On paper, looks promising, but they underperform every year

Can they get much of anything (toward actual winning in playoffs) from recent draftees Little, Simons, C J Elleby and Greg Brown.  Portland had high hopes for all of them.
Title: Miami
Post by: chipstern on November 03, 2021, 12:19:45 PM
Butler

PJ

Lowry

Some tough motherfuckers. 

Bam getting nothing but better. 

Herro back to rookie year form. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 03, 2021, 12:54:17 PM
Additions Markieff Morris and Caleb Martin also in the rotation

And Dedmon only played a handful of games last year

So five of their ten are new guys.  Nice realignment after an embarrassing 4-0 playoff loss to the champs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 03, 2021, 01:01:43 PM
Bam getting nothing but better.


I know he is just 24 but I think we have seen peak BAM

Sikma and Sabonis among his comparables, so not too bad.
Title: Knicks V. Miami
Post by: chipstern on November 03, 2021, 03:27:35 PM
January 26

February 25

Looking forward to RJ playing his spiritual doppelganger, Jimmy Butler. 

MEANWHILE

Milwaukee

November 5

November 10

Indiana

November 3

November 15

Philly

November 8

Charlotte

November 12

AND IN A LACK Of THANKSGIVING Quadrant Of DOOM

November 23   

Lakers

November 26   

Phoenix

November 27   

Atlanta

November 30

Brooklyn


By the end of November we should have a pretty good idea of what kind of team we really have. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 03, 2021, 04:52:28 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 03, 2021, 12:54:17 PM
Additions Markieff Morris and Caleb Martin also in the rotation
And Dedmon only played a handful of games last year

In the DAL game, Morris made frequent mistakes on D, was the weak link when out there.
Caleb plays hard, but limited.  Twin Cody better.
Dedmon was bobbling the ball and taking awkward shots, even at point blank range.  Needs to focus more.  All three will get their fouls in.

Lowry was terrific in the DAL game.  Keeps the ball moving, pushes the pace, knows when to bomb away, just provides structure.  Hero was on fire. 

Luka made 4 ridiculous 1st half plays.  An edge of logo 3 that I almost didn't even bother to count on this list; doubled near half court dropped a bounce pass that came up about head high, split between a few players and traveled 25' to a rim cutter for a layup; got surrounded by basically all 5 Heat, flipped up an 8 footer that was short, tapped the front-rim rebound to a teammate under the basket; triple teamed tossed up a high 10' finger roll that went in.  Halleluka.

Brunson sure likes to use his off arm to push off on defenders. 
Title: Depressed?
Post by: carlos123 on November 04, 2021, 12:18:00 AM
Hey Chip, we are all a little depressed right now.

We need a pep talk.

As PP#1, please make us feel better.

Thank you 😊
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 04, 2021, 10:00:14 AM
Brunson sure likes to use his off arm to push off on defenders.




Yeah, his dad was a cleaner player - ha.  These days you have to in order to survive.

LOVED Rick Brunson.  Thought he'd be better.  Aaron McKie is the guy he played with under Cheney at Temple, right?  Good team.  I have to look up - see who else they had.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 04, 2021, 01:02:55 PM
Wow, MyTurn starts off on fire.  Usually he's too restrained on O.
Duarte is fearless.  Good to see LaVert playing again.
And always love me some Brogdon.

Fournier's shots all over the place.  Mitch all over the place too, but in a good way.
Ind going at Kemba.  Frogdon playing nice D on Fournier.  Teams are getting up on Fournier early (well, TOR & now IND).

Knix not making 3's.
Randle blows by Sabonis, but has trouble posting up smaller guys (Brogdon and BallZo the other game).  Kemba frequently passes off just before midcourt to Randle or RJB also just barely in the backcourt.  Kinda odd.  Does it a few times every game.

Brogdon real sharp. 
NYK with a 2 Timeout 1Q.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 04, 2021, 01:38:47 PM
So, shit, turns out that Aaron Rodgers is in the company of a flat-earther like Kyrie Irving.

Only Kyrie is honest about his position. And far less dangerous.

Not a good look for Rodgers. Deluded? A selfish asshole? Both?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 05, 2021, 01:54:56 AM
No thoughts on the IND game?
Seems like Julius a bit distracted and team unable to cohere without his leadership.  Also Rose has quieted down.  Teams have adjusted their D since the Knix hot start shooting 3's.  Most noticeably getting up on Fournier.  And are starting to attack Kemba and Obit on D, and make Fournier have to execute rotations and chase guys around. 
Mitch and RJB have looked good.  Kemba was leading the league on 3Pt FG%.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 05, 2021, 09:33:50 AM
No thoughts on the IND game?


They have good players

Offensively we fluctuate.
Title: Re: Depressed?
Post by: chipstern on November 05, 2021, 12:50:20 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on November 04, 2021, 12:18:00 AM
Hey Chip, we are all a little depressed right now.

We need a pep talk.

As PP#1, please make us feel better.

Thank you 😊

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ae/Sophia_Loren_-_1955.JPG/482px-Sophia_Loren_-_1955.JPG)

(https://render.fineartamerica.com/images/rendered/default/print/9.5/12/break/images/artworkimages/medium/1/jayne-mansfield-hollywood-actress-and-italian-actress-sophia-california-views-mr-pat-hathaway-archives.jpg)

(https://groovyhistory.com/content/56309/f815e95856b8f19af3b39416854e7d4e.jpg)
Title: Thanks
Post by: carlos123 on November 05, 2021, 01:42:02 PM
Nothing like Sophia to make anyone feel better ☺️
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 05, 2021, 02:03:19 PM
1st game of the season, ATL looked great clobbering DAL.  Since then Hawks just 3-5, beating weak sisters and losing to solid senders.  DAL 5-2 since also by beating up on weaklings.

Not sure what's wrong with ATL.  Played UTA even for 3Q's then gave a up a 41 point 4Q (with Donovan out).  Trae has been slumpy all season -- 25% on 3's! 
Cam Reddish has faded the last few games.
Collins up and down (2 boards in 31 mins v Utah!).
Huerter 5-25 on 3's for the season.
Looking for more shooting, Lou W has taken Delon's backup PG minutes, and Sweet Lou is shooting 20% on 3's -- same as Huerter.
Capela and Hunter seem the only two consistent players.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 05, 2021, 02:09:21 PM
I like what I'm seeing. Sophia, yes, but the Knicks too.

We're strong. Barrett, Robinson and Obi look better than last year. Rose still playing at a strikingly high level. Fournier and Walker just need time to gel. I think we'll get there.

My single concern this year has been Randle. And you see it in the Indiana game. If he's not a strong, consistent force on both ends.....the Knicks are in trouble.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 05, 2021, 02:18:27 PM
My single concern this year has been Randle. And you see it in the Indiana game. If he's not a strong, consistent force on both ends.....the Knicks are in trouble.


Then we are not a good team.

Good teams can win when their top players are subpar.

But the numbers say NO

Knicks won 3 straight when Julius was

7-18
3-11
4-9

We have lost a game when he was 7-14, 4-7 from deep, 4-4 from the line.

TEAM PLAY, not hero ball.


Title: My Friend, Pat Martino
Post by: chipstern on November 05, 2021, 03:01:41 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7jmUWe0_nw&list=PLEyxWPyoryRJ2R_OYzKPWXLrqF6A3ObDh&index=7 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7jmUWe0_nw&list=PLEyxWPyoryRJ2R_OYzKPWXLrqF6A3ObDh&index=7)

BOTH SIDES NOW

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rfTrS1hEFI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rfTrS1hEFI)

SUNNY

(https://benedettoguitars.com/wp-content/gallery/pat-martino-signature-model/patmartinojazzstandard.jpg)

A Peaceful Journey
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 05, 2021, 03:06:42 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 05, 2021, 02:18:27 PM
My single concern this year has been Randle. And you see it in the Indiana game. If he's not a strong, consistent force on both ends.....the Knicks are in trouble.


Then we are not a good team.

Good teams can win when their top players are subpar.

But the numbers say NO

Knicks won 3 straight when Julius was

7-18
3-11
4-9

We have lost a game when he was 7-14, 4-7 from deep, 4-4 from the line.

TEAM PLAY, not hero ball.

Well, yeah. But no. Not a question of hero ball.

Julius is no superstar. The Knicks are a balanced team. They are deep.

But at least right now, he's the center of it all.

And it's not about him having a subpar game. More about him consistently being a strong force on both ends. Too early for stats to make any argument. But there's the eye test. We know Randle's weaknesses and you can definitely see them on display lately. I suspect he just needs more time to gel with that starting unit and find his game.
Title: Re: My Friend, Pat Martino
Post by: Yankguy1 on November 05, 2021, 03:30:07 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 05, 2021, 03:01:41 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7jmUWe0_nw&list=PLEyxWPyoryRJ2R_OYzKPWXLrqF6A3ObDh&index=7 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7jmUWe0_nw&list=PLEyxWPyoryRJ2R_OYzKPWXLrqF6A3ObDh&index=7)

BOTH SIDES NOW

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rfTrS1hEFI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rfTrS1hEFI)

SUNNY

(https://benedettoguitars.com/wp-content/gallery/pat-martino-signature-model/patmartinojazzstandard.jpg)

A Peaceful Journey
Brilliant.  This kind of genius, no matter the field, is incomprehensible to me.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 05, 2021, 03:55:25 PM
Quote from: elephant on November 05, 2021, 03:06:42 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 05, 2021, 02:18:27 PM
My single concern this year has been Randle. And you see it in the Indiana game. If he's not a strong, consistent force on both ends.....the Knicks are in trouble.


Then we are not a good team.

Good teams can win when their top players are subpar.

But the numbers say NO

Knicks won 3 straight when Julius was

7-18
3-11
4-9

We have lost a game when he was 7-14, 4-7 from deep, 4-4 from the line.

TEAM PLAY, not hero ball.

Well, yeah. But no. Not a question of hero ball.

Julius is no superstar. The Knicks are a balanced team. They are deep.

But at least right now, he's the center of it all.

And it's not about him having a subpar game. More about him consistently being a strong force on both ends. Too early for stats to make any argument. But there's the eye test. We know Randle's weaknesses and you can definitely see them on display lately. I suspect he just needs more time to gel with that starting unit and find his game.

I have no idea what you are atlking about

Knicks are 5-3

Randle is 21-11-6 (off 24-10-6 a year ago)

Percentages could be better?

That's a GOOD thing.

But don't expect the .411 from 3 to reappear.
Title: HALLELUJA!
Post by: carlos123 on November 05, 2021, 10:02:42 PM
Wow!!!
This game even better than old pics of Sophia.
Had it all, and best of all an incredible comeback against the defending champs, at their home, no less.
Title: Sophia Loren At PG
Post by: chipstern on November 05, 2021, 10:03:52 PM
Oh, my bad. 

(https://www.picclickimg.com/d/l400/pict/163394972870_/Sophia-Loren-Eyes-With-Big-Eyelashes-8x10-Photo.jpg)

DERRICK ROSE. 

PS: RJ? Jimmy Butler?  SHIT.  Starting to remind me of Scottie Pippen.

(https://elitesportsny.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/derrick-rose-e1614732083356-681x383.png)

PPS: Oh, my bad, SOPHIA LOREN. 
Title: Oh, by the way....
Post by: chipstern on November 05, 2021, 10:05:10 PM
(https://static.independent.co.uk/2021/03/04/15/newFile-8.jpg?width=982&height=726&auto=webp&quality=75)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 05, 2021, 10:17:58 PM
That was a nice bounce back game to keep us locked up 4 to 7.

Rose, Randle, Barrett, and Noel all with game balls. Let us hope we can hold on to and expand on our second half play.

It was nice to get a little glimpse of the kids at the end.
Title: Nerlens
Post by: chipstern on November 05, 2021, 10:35:38 PM
Noel Was HUGE.

(https://i2.wp.com/www.nbaanalysis.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/3-teams-who-need-to-pursue-Nerlens-Noel-in-NBA-free-agency.jpeg?resize=678%2C381&ssl=1)

Galvanized our defensive presence.   

Walker-Rose
Robinson-Noels

Thibs going with the hot hand. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 05, 2021, 10:48:44 PM
Nice win

GOOD teams can beat any team - in our building or theirs
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 06, 2021, 09:30:41 AM
Giannis & 4 backups starting for MIL.  One his brother.
Knix slowly realizing that lobs to Mitch aren't there if Giannis is.
Knix relying on the 3 and missing.
30-13 and Randle shoots an airball 3 ...
38-19 after 1Q.

2Q:
Let Giannis front rim 3's.
Rose getting Knix back into it.
NYK dialed back the 3's.

2nd half:
Knix!
Didn't have a chance to more than glance at the action.
Nawlins was nicely active. Quix hit a big shot or two.
Rose a big catalyst.
Things obviously went well.  Presumably on both ends.
Looked like lots of O-Boards and indeed KNix had 20 o-rebounds.
More O-boards than assists -- that's an odd game stat.

MIL missing Lopez, Middleton, DiVicenzo.  And JRue working his way back.
Knix keep finding ways to win.
Title: Re: Sophia Loren At PG
Post by: carlos123 on November 06, 2021, 05:06:10 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 05, 2021, 10:03:52 PM
Oh, my bad. 
 

No, not your bad at all, Chip...

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLV0iTCAZXQJ24Ulsv4L0TIq_X5549vjmjdhnGKV77HtAhdMsrTHB4WyOoq9_K5jH6_Qu8dQFDTy0khtWC8NcXpabzFy7s7XPellNmZHTh9_-FtQ2AQpPfv3LdejQZruRfWBCC1cexeWdgAlWfwQ_K06=w581-h383-no?authuser=0)

...But I think you meant one of these
Title: Re: Nerlens
Post by: facilitatorn on November 06, 2021, 07:00:42 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 05, 2021, 10:35:38 PM
Noel Was HUGE.

(https://i2.wp.com/www.nbaanalysis.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/3-teams-who-need-to-pursue-Nerlens-Noel-in-NBA-free-agency.jpeg?resize=678%2C381&ssl=1)

Galvanized our defensive presence.   

Walker-Rose
Robinson-Noels

Thibs going with the hot hand.

Rose is clearly playing better than Walker. It is not particularly close.

Noel & Mitch are different. Noel was perfect for the Bucks with GA at center. Noel is hopeless against guys like Embid where Mitch gives us a chance.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 06, 2021, 07:37:45 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 05, 2021, 10:17:58 PM
That was a nice bounce back game to keep us locked up 4 to 7.

Rose, Randle, Barrett, and Noel all with game balls. Let us hope we can hold on to and expand on our second half play.

It was nice to get a little glimpse of the kids at the end.

When we came back it looked like last year's team.  And it was.  Kemba and Evan sat and it was the right move.  They need to watch how it's done and play like the rest of the squad.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 06, 2021, 09:41:08 PM
Rose had his first very very good game

And Walker has had 2 bad ones consecutively.

Prior - Kemba was shooting 50%.  Rose had played under 20 minutes in 4 straight.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 06, 2021, 11:16:57 PM
Teams out score the Knicks by 4 when Kemba is on the court. Knicks out score their opponents by 10 when Rose is on the court. That is over the full 9 we have played so far.
Title: Hey Fac
Post by: carlos123 on November 06, 2021, 11:30:13 PM
Hey Fac, who is PK, not Porzingis (Kristaps), the one you quote?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 07, 2021, 01:18:03 AM
Paul Krugman of NYT and Princeton fame.
Title: PK
Post by: carlos123 on November 07, 2021, 09:56:16 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 07, 2021, 01:18:03 AM
Paul Krugman of NYT and Princeton fame.

And Nobel Prize to boot. Thank you Fac 🙏🏼
Title: KEMBA
Post by: chipstern on November 07, 2021, 01:40:34 PM
Being rested against Cleveland. 

Does that mean Rose starts? 

Minutes? 

Would like to see McBride get some burn, but I suspect Thibs goes with Quick...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 07, 2021, 02:52:04 PM
Cool

Yeah, seemed the uptick in minutes for Rose vs Bucks may have been about more than production.  Maybe some soreness for Walker.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 07, 2021, 05:37:39 PM
Reminder - game is at 6 today
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 07, 2021, 08:01:02 PM
KNICKS

Any five can put on a show.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 07, 2021, 08:31:02 PM
Rubio played the best NBA game of his life.  But even if you take away half his threes the Knicks would've lost.  Defense needs to improve.

Nice that IQ had a good game.

Grimes did a good job too.  He can be in the rotation.
Title: Minutes
Post by: carlos123 on November 07, 2021, 09:03:34 PM
We're playing again tomorrow and Obi was really good today.
I think King Julius should have played less than 37 minutes and Obi more than 11, but that's not what coach does.
Too bad in this case, I think.


- Help Chamaco Cartero! -
(he needs it much more than Andy Parker)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 07, 2021, 10:36:35 PM
Grind em down to a thib.  We have depth, I'd use it.  Best for Randle and Rose to have their legs during 4Q crunch time.  Looks like CLE played better once Sexton was gone -- though Rubio becoming a Curry Brother isn't exactly sustainable.

4th guy in 10 games to have a career high v. the new Knix defense.
(Jaylen, Ross, OG, Rubiyat)

3Q of close contests is where teams often lose the game.
Often has to do with preparation and energy/focus.
Which shouldn't be a NYK problem.
Knix got killed on the boards.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 08, 2021, 03:17:43 AM
1Q:
JarAllen active and dominant.  Mitch not looking sharp.
Randle 1-2 on corner 3's.  But Randle jacking contested corner 3's is doing CLE a favor.
Also allowing CLE to gang rebound 3 against Mitch.

I was just thinking how nice it is to have Rose's vet savvy.  He just knows how to make plays. As soon as the thought bubble went away, Rose gets distracted by a live Rubio dribble (at the 5' mark), and turns his head back to the corner to look for his man, just as Sexting is catching a pass under the rim.  Er.  Well, it's the offensive savvy I was thinking about.

Rubio with some weak D v. Knick wings.
3' mark: Garland has Burks contained in the corner, then just weirdly overplays to the wrong side allowing Burks to cut baseline back door and get a pass right over Garland.  Blech.  Dumb play. 
Noel rushes over to help Burks up, while Mobley runs downcourt for an easy transition bucket.  I saw that in a game last night too.  You're teammate will get up on his own.  Do your job and get back. especially if you're the C.

RJB looked tired when Thibs finally took him out with 1 min left 1Q.  First Randle blow as well.  Poor game so far from RJB, unnecessary fouls and missed 3's.

Fournier good 2Q.
Breen mentioned that Rose leads the League in +/-
Randle a bit up and down.
Mobley impressive.  Strong game from JarAllen.
Mitch accepted the challenge and had a good 2Q.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 08, 2021, 09:02:48 AM
3Q Knix got killed.
4Q NYK never could make a 2nd run to get it under 6.
2nd unit was just trading baskets with them.
Couldn't get stops.

Rubio is red hot.
So Knix decide ... to give him some open shots.

8' mark, Quix picks up Rubio full court.  Good, until Rubio dribbles around his back at the midcourt line and gets past Quix.  Nawlins steps up to slow up Rubio and allow Quix to get back in the play.  But instead Quix wrongly decides to switch to Noel's man Jar Allen who is 4 feet behind the 3 point line setting a pick.  Why on earth would you guard A.Jar way out there?  Rubio calmly pulls up for a 16 foot open J.  Back to 10 point lead.

Quix cuts the lead to 7 with a quick 3

7' mark, Cavs run a Rubio-Wade high PnR.  The idea is to put Burks and Toppin, two weak defenders into the action.  Burks dies on the screen, Toppin starts to roll in with Jar Allen who is covered by Noel.  Need better communication.  Looks like ObiT thought they were switching.  But there was no reason to, and you'd rather ObiT on a guard outside than Noel anyway. Rubio splashes an open 16' J.  Can't leave the hot shooter wide open.
 
Grimes nails a long 2.  7 point deficit, 6 mins left.

Then Cavs move the ball around, Knix wind up weirdly with two double teams at the same time, so that Windler is open weak side elbow and Mobley in the corner.  Mobley corner 3.  (did I mention the kid can play?).  10 point lead.  5'44" left

Three mid-4Q possessions where Knix made wrong decisions, and couldn't coordinate switches.  Burks, ObiT and Quix to blame.  Too many iffy defenders out there.

Quix misses a floater and falls down.
Cavs push and Rubio finds a wide open Osman on a 4-on-3 break.  Noel slow getting back.
Knix transition D poor.
One play, Osman dribbled all the way down court past 3 Knix and hit an open man Windler for a corner 3.  There was another open man in the opposite corner as well.

Cavs a real surprise team.  They play hard.  Were the more active and cohesive team. 
Were missing Sexton, Okoro, Markkanen and Love as well.
Knix showed some poor body language 2nd half.  Burks and Randle notably. 
Fournier missed all 6 of his 2nd half shots.
RJB was off all game and looked tired.  Thibs didn't bring him back (I think).
Title: Mobley
Post by: chipstern on November 08, 2021, 01:36:06 PM
Was fucking awesome.  An offensive and defensive juggernaut. 

Cavs finally drew a bit of luck in the draft.   

Looked like the second coming of Bob McAdoo and _________________________.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 08, 2021, 03:12:56 PM
Sucks that we lost

Some rest for the masses may not be a bad thing

Rubio beautiful to watch - and doesn't need to throw it in anyone's face.  Timeless class.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 08, 2021, 05:02:06 PM
Sexton torn meniscus

Let the Rubio show continue
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 08, 2021, 06:10:09 PM
Too bad about Sexting.
Just as Cavs are playing well.

I thought WAS and TOR and GS could be fairly good/competitive this year.  Hard teams to gauge.  Wiz with the Lake makeover; Barnes in and Lowry out for Raps; Poole looked terrific pre-season (I saw GSW 3x pre-season).
And you could see how CHI could be solid too if they could figure out their D and build some instant chemistry. 

But CLE a real surprise to me.   I liked the MArkk and Rubio pickups.  But looked like D and cohesion would be issues. The duplicate backcourt (Garland/Sexton) and duplicate frontcourt (A Jar & Mobley) didn't look promising.   Probably Scottie Barnes would fit their needs better, but Mobley looks terrific.  Like a young AD.  Both look like future all-stars.  Certainly going to be some questioning about taking Cade and Jalen Green 1 & 2.  Cause 3 & 4 can ball.

Interestingly, in the early going, only one of the Top 9 picks is shooting over 29% on 3's.  That'd be Wagner, who has a nice all-around game.  #13 Duarte is shooting 42% on 3's.  But thus far, not much shooting from this draft class.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 08, 2021, 06:56:30 PM
Good stats - something to keep an eye on
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 08, 2021, 09:10:47 PM
Heh

Fuck Doc Rivers
Title: Mr. heh (and lol) strikes YET again #43,833
Post by: carlos123 on November 08, 2021, 09:48:52 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on November 08, 2021, 09:10:47 PM
Heh

Fuck Doc Rivers

Chamaco's favorite coach 😁
- Help Chamaco Cartero! -
(he needs it much more than Andy Parker)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 08, 2021, 09:52:11 PM
Nice win to have in the bag. Taj is still our most overall impactful big besides Randle.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 08, 2021, 11:42:57 PM
https://www.google.com/search?q=nba+standings&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS847US847&oq=nba+standings&aqs=chrome..69i57j0i131i433i512l2j0i131i433j0i131i433i512j0i512j0i131i433i512j0i512l3.8210j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#sie=lg;/g/11q1vtzf8w;3;/m/05jvx;st;fp;1;;
Title: Chamaco-s link
Post by: carlos123 on November 09, 2021, 01:08:43 AM
I for one do not trust the link posted by Chamaco. He may be trying to hack our devices.
Not gonna hit it, no sir!
- Help Chamaco Cartero! -
(he needs it much more than Andy Parker)
Title: Sixers
Post by: chipstern on November 09, 2021, 12:57:40 PM
Korkmaz and Dieng, both 6'7" wings, are really fucking deadly. 

I shuddered every time Korkmaz went ReadyAimFire. 

Speaking of which, JULIUS?

His fourth game with at least 30 points, 10 boards and 5 treys.

Tying him with Melo in Knicks lore. 

These Knicks have a long way to go, and it is plain that we still gelling, Walker and Fournier fitting in, team arriving at a rhythm.

The talent is there, as is the will...

But the consistency, the mental focus...stay tuned. 

Meanwhile, Julius put the team on his back and said FUCK IT, WE ARE NOT GOING DOWN. 

Meanwhile, the Bucks coming into the Garden, even without Lopez and Middleton...

Yikes.  Julius better have on his big boy pants, because Giannis is going to be fired the fuck up. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 09, 2021, 01:01:49 PM
ORL beat UTA behind some fearless Cole Anthony play.
Ended the game on an 11-2 run or somesuch.
Tie game 2' left and Cole jukes past Royce O'N and shoots a midranger over Gobert.
Anthony also had two fast break dunks in the 4Q.
Donovan Mitch hurt his cause by picking up a dumb foul, his 5th, on a 1-on-3 break around the 8' min mark.  Meant he had to sit for a while while ORL whittled the UTah lead.
Then Donovan came back and wasn't in rhythm.  Scored just 2 4Q points.

Cole Anthony did have an adventurous possession just over the 1' mark where Royce semi-stole the ball twice, finally Cole had to dive on the floor, shovel the ball to Gray Harris who found Hampton for the clinching 3.  A total broken play.
Cole with 33 and a whole lotta stats, though just 2 assists. 5-10 on 3's and 10 4Q points.
Confident guy.  Developing nicely.

Wendell Carter went for 22, 15 & 6.   Was ripping down boards with authority.
ORL just 3-8 but have beaten NYK and UTA.  Helps to have Gary Harris back.  And might want to start him and have struggling Suggs on the 2nd unit.
Title: Trade Rumors aka BULLSHIT
Post by: chipstern on November 09, 2021, 01:11:20 PM
Just read some piffle about interest by the Celtics in Ben Simmons.

And that Jaylen Brown would be on the table. 

Bull

SHIT

Unless Morey significantly lowers his asking price, Simmons is simply untradeable. 

I mean...SERIOUSLY? 

Like the Celtics, speaking of untradeable, are going to welcome another Kyrie Irving fox into the chicken coop. 

Likewise, speculation about Simmons for Irving.

Like Doc Rivers doesn't have enough troubles. 

Sixers have really nice chemistry, and were within a cunt hair of taking us out last night, even without Embid and Harris, let alone Little Lord Fauntleroy. 

Irving is a remarkable talent, but simply uncoachable.  What he did to the Nyets this season speaks for itself on an Aaron Rodgers level of sheer narcisstic douchebaggery. 

Name one coach in the NBA who would consciously take on such baggage. 

And as for Simmons, and his I AM SO TROUBLE AND FORLORN schtick, I mean, in some outer quadrant of the galaxy, Kobe Bryant is hurling. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 09, 2021, 01:17:39 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 09, 2021, 01:01:49 PM
ORL beat UTA behind some fearless Cole Anthony play.
Ended the game on an 11-2 run or somesuch.
Tie game 2' left and Cole jukes past Royce O'N and shoots a midranger over Gobert.
Anthony also had two fast break dunks in the 4Q.
Donovan Mitch hurt his cause by picking up a dumb foul, his 5th, on a 1-on-3 break around the 8' min mark.  Meant he had to sit for a while while ORL whittled the UTah lead.
Then Donovan came back and wasn't in rhythm.  Scored just 2 4Q points.

Cole Anthony did have an adventurous possession just over the 1' mark where Royce semi-stole the ball twice, finally Cole had to dive on the floor, shovel the ball to Gray Harris who found Hampton for the clinching 3.  A total broken play.
Cole with 33 and a whole lotta stats, though just 2 assists. 5-10 on 3's and 10 4Q points.
Confident guy.  Developing nicely.

Wendell Carter went for 22, 15 & 6.   Was ripping down boards with authority.
ORL just 3-8 but have beaten NYK and UTA.  Helps to have Gary Harris back.  And might want to start him and have struggling Suggs on the 2nd unit.

Happy for Cole.  Playing his ass off. 

As for Suggs, he and the other lottery picks, 1-14, growing pains abound, but certain players have been standouts. 

Evan Mobley.  Scottie Barnes. 

On a rung just below...

Josh Giddey.  Franz Wagner.  Davion Mitchell.  Chris Duarte.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 09, 2021, 01:19:39 PM
Chip must have missed the latest re:  Celtics locker room unrest

Brown out 2-3 weeks - Boston sees what Simmons-Tatum could look like - Jason not having to handle the ball as much.

I like it for both teams
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 09, 2021, 02:34:32 PM
lol, lol, lol,

I remember hearing everybody say how f'd the sixers were with simmons.
I remember saying they have no problems at all.
I remember hearing how it would be a distraction.
I remember saying how it was great for the team...best motivation ever.

They're sitting pretty with the best record in the East.
They'll trade Simmons at their price on their time. 3 months.6 months. 2 years, whatever.

Morey broke Ben like a piece of balsa wood, lol, twice they've turned off the $$$ and Ben came running like a toddler missing his lollipop..

Back problems, Ben? fine, come see our doc. Mental health? no prob, but you have to see our doc..lmao..that ish ain't gonna play. Morey don't play.

Ain't much doubt it will end up fine for the 76ers. However it ends.

Title: Sixers
Post by: carlos123 on November 09, 2021, 09:55:27 PM
They may not need Ben, but they sure appear to miss Embiid and Harris. They lost again today, to the Bucks.
Hope Bucks are very tired tomorrow 😜
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 10, 2021, 01:26:40 AM
How far will Celts go with Smart starting at PG?
Is the Tatum-Brown combo a winner or too duplicative?
I'd be listening to offers for Jaylen Brown...

Suggs looks like he has good court awareness.  But the speed of the game has somewhat overwhelmed him, and he's pressing.  Might be easier to watch some and then go against 2nd unit guys for a while.  Wagner otoh has been pretty much plug and play.  Real nice feel for the game, with rook mistakes sprinkled in.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 10, 2021, 01:30:05 AM
One play Luka starts dancing around with the ball and Davion Mitch mirrors his every juke.  Finally Luka goes left and as he goes for a step back 3, Davion whacks the ball out of his hands.
Wow.  I'll look for a link ...
Title: Any Offers For Jaylen Come In?
Post by: chipstern on November 10, 2021, 04:34:09 PM
👁😳👁
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 10, 2021, 05:20:47 PM
Burks is playing worse defense than he did last year.
One play circa 8' mark of 3Q, Burks rotates inside to a rolling Drummond.  Problem is Randle was there already.  Drummond makes the easy read for a Danny Green corner 3, which cut the Knick lead to 8.  This got Green going, and he hit another 3 the next trip down.  Soon enough PHI was down by only 2.   

On that play, Knix already had a high double team on the left side, so Burks collapsing in resulted in simultaneous double teams leaving two spot up shooters wide open.  A horrible misconfiguration we also saw last game.  Not sure what it is with Burks, but his default setting is to head into the paint, when he should be thinking closing out and staying attached to shooters.

Fournier has been somewhat frustrating lately.  Sometimes he looks smooth and lights out.  Then other times he makes dumb fouls, stumbles around, shoots airballs.  He absolutely adds a shot creation element Knix didn't have, able to both shoot and drive.  But these stretches where he disappears or plays badly are becoming more pronounced.  And this has been a problem throughout his career.  In ORL I often attributed it to trying to do too much.  But I'm inclined to blame mental focus. 

Otherwise, Fournier doesn't seem integrated into the Knick offense.  Seems to be mainly doing his own thing.  Such a wildcard isn't necessarily a bad thing, though more commonly found on 2nd units.  Also it's still early going.  Fournier slumping some in NOV. (25% on 3's).  And while better than Burks, I'd also rate Fournier's D as below average.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 10, 2021, 05:45:48 PM
ATL (4-8) just lost its 5th in a row.
Huerter was on fire (6-9 3's), but also was foul prone and a sieve on D and finished with a team worst -20.  Uath has the continuity and fluidity ATL so far lacks.

Collins continues his up and down play -- just 7 points and 4 boards in 35 mins.
Shouldn't he be killing Ingles and Bogdanovich?
Royce O'Neal has been playing real well lately.

Bogdan and Hunter were both out with minor dings.
But ATL is ultra-deep.  Cam had a good game; Gallo just 7 mins.

Lotta guys such as Huerter, Collins, Porter Jr. cashed in on huge contracts before they proved themselves genuine stars and more to the point before they became consistent NBA players. Lotta risk.
Title: Re: Any Offers For Jaylen Come In?
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 10, 2021, 06:49:00 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 10, 2021, 04:34:09 PM
👁😳👁

Not while he is hurt
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 10, 2021, 06:52:22 PM
Collins continues his up and down play, just 7 points and 4 boards in 35 mins.
Shouldnt he be killing Ingles and Bogdanovich?

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 10, 2021, 06:58:59 PM
So, what did you think of Drummond?

Big numbers over the 2 losses (Philly now 8-4 - fuck Doc)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 10, 2021, 07:05:59 PM
Lotta guys such as Huerter, Collins, Porter Jr. cashed in on huge contracts before they proved themselves genuine stars and more to the point before they became consistent NBA players. Lotta risk.


It appears Collins could be a bargain

Porter?  Maybe not
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 10, 2021, 07:35:23 PM
On that play, Knix already had a high double team on the left side, so Burks collapsing in resulted in simultaneous double teams leaving two spot up shooters wide open.  A horrible misconfiguration we also saw last game.  Not sure what it is with Burks, but his default setting is to head into the paint, when he should be thinking closing out and staying attached to shooters.


Team D - the effective kind - can often leave open shooters.  Best to be close to the paint, then recover.

3 pointers do have one desired effect -

cutting down on team fouls.

I dont think we would prefer super tight 1 v 1 with little help.  We'd get destroyed on the 2-point drive and the not so occasional foul to boot.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 10, 2021, 08:23:26 PM
Heh

Had to bench Rose tonight, since every team is playing

Playing his ass off.
Title: Mr. heh (and lol) strikes YET again #43,834&5 + OBSESSED WITH DOC
Post by: carlos123 on November 10, 2021, 08:40:40 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on November 10, 2021, 06:52:22 PM
heh

Quote from: chamacocartero8 on November 10, 2021, 06:58:59 PM
So, what did you think of Drummond?

Big numbers over the 2 losses (Philly now 8-4 - fuck Doc)

Quote from: chamacocartero8 on November 10, 2021, 08:23:26 PM
Heh

Hey Chamaco, you really are CONSISTENT, maybe boring but very consistent.

- Help Chamaco Cartero! -
(he needs it much more than Andy Parker)


I can be consistent, too 😁
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 10, 2021, 08:54:46 PM
Time to watch a little Cade vs Jalen
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 10, 2021, 09:56:28 PM
Kemba needs time to get as close to Kemba as he can again. Meanwhile, he really should not be starting.

We were not going to sweep the Bucks. At least we managed the fake comeback for a minute there.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 10, 2021, 10:13:19 PM
CUNNINGHAM very impressive - DET gets the W

Green shot it better than he had been.

2 picks that were quite deserved - though I still like Suggs

LAKER TIME!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 11, 2021, 10:07:28 AM
In every single game this year, there's been a moment where Rose does something and I catch myself thinking,

Damn, he's good!



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 11, 2021, 11:58:33 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 10, 2021, 09:56:28 PM
Kemba needs time to get as close to Kemba as he can again. Meanwhile, he really should not be starting.

We were not going to sweep the Bucks. At least we managed the fake comeback for a minute there.

FAKE Comeback. 

Came all the way back on inspired play by Rose, Quickley, Burks, Gibson and Obi. 

In the end, could not stem the tide of white boy ICBMs.  Motherfuckers can sure shoot. 

Let's see what adjustments THIBS has in his quiver.  And what passes for accountability. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 11, 2021, 12:00:19 PM
No five-man unit in the NBA has played more minutes together than the Knicks starting five, who has a negative 14.4 net rating in 205 minutes of court time. That rating is the second worst of the leagues 20 most used quintets, ahead of only the starting five of the tanking Rockets. No one else in that group of 20 is worse than a minus 4.3.


It needs to be said here: it is still early. Joining New York are the Mavs starting bunch (minus 18.1; 23rd in minutes), Indianas first five (minus 14.3; 37th in minutes) the Lakers initial grouping (minus 14.2; 39th in minutes) and finally the Bucks five-man group with Khris Middleton but no Jrue (minus 12.8; 40th in minutes). These are not all terrible. Things can change.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 11, 2021, 12:04:46 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 11, 2021, 11:58:33 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 10, 2021, 09:56:28 PM
At least we managed the fake comeback for a minute there.

FAKE Comeback. 

Came all the way back on inspired play by Rose, Quickley, Burks, Gibson and Obi. 


By the end of this game, New York would have three of the top 32 players in basketball where total plus/minus is concerned: Obi Toppin (32nd, +57), Immanuel Quickley (24th; +64) and of course, the indefatigable Derrick Rose (9th; +95). That Quickley finds himself here after starting the season in such a hellacious shooting slump is a testament to how much he has improved, as is the case with Obi Toppin, who has played fewer minutes than anyone ahead of him on the list other than three bench cogs for the league-best Warriors.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 11, 2021, 01:20:57 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 10, 2021, 05:20:47 PM


Fournier has been somewhat frustrating lately.  Sometimes he looks smooth and lights out.  Then other times he makes dumb fouls, stumbles around, shoots airballs.  He absolutely adds a shot creation element Knix didn't have, able to both shoot and drive.  But these stretches where he disappears or plays badly are becoming more pronounced.  And this has been a problem throughout his career.  In ORL I often attributed it to trying to do too much.  But I'm inclined to blame mental focus. 

Otherwise, Fournier doesn't seem integrated into the Knick offense.  Seems to be mainly doing his own thing.  Such a wildcard isn't necessarily a bad thing, though more commonly found on 2nd units.  Also it's still early going.  Fournier slumping some in NOV. (25% on 3's).  And while better than Burks, I'd also rate Fournier's D as below average.

Yeah, interesting...on and off...smooth or stumbling, definitely seems like a guy who can evolve or devolve with the lineup or team. Hopefully we'll have more of the former happening.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 11, 2021, 03:30:24 PM
No five man unit in the NBA has played more minutes together than the Knicks starting five, who has a negative 14.4 net rating in 205 minutes of court time. That rating is the second worst of the leagues 20 most used quintets, ahead of only the starting five of the tanking Rockets. No one else in that group of 20 is worse than a minus 4.3.


Wow - we suck
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 11, 2021, 03:46:20 PM
Haven't been able to see the MIL game.
But every Buck starter shot over 50% on 3's.
And Knix again got beat on the boards.
MIL was missing 3 starters.
Our NY Celts backcourt scored 4 points.
At least Randle got some rest  ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 11, 2021, 03:49:33 PM
I was looking at our lineups and it is clear Rose is our best PG and Taj is our best center in terms of knowing how to impact games with the juice they can muster. You do not want to play either guy more than 30 minutes a game.

The other thing that jumped out was that Kemba has only been effective playing with Taj. This makes sense because Taj has the best spacing, timing, sets the best picks, catches, shoots, and finishes all in ways that support and elevate his pg. he also knows how to cover on the back end with minimal mistakes.

Rose should play with everyone but Kemba, since he makes them all better, for about 28 minutes, 8 with Taj. Taj should play his other 20 minutes caddying Kemba through the backup PG minutes. This throttles Mitch minutes until he can build Kemba synergy and take minutes back from Taj. A slight dip in minutes for Mitch might also light a fire under his ass while at the same time giving him more rope to gamble in foul/block situations allowing for more aggression from him on the court.
Title: Coach Fac
Post by: carlos123 on November 11, 2021, 07:23:41 PM
Hey Fac, you're making too much sense.

I want you to be the Knicks next coach.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 11, 2021, 09:36:39 PM
Lets let Thibs see how he can work it out.
Title: Coach Fac
Post by: carlos123 on November 11, 2021, 10:17:17 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on November 11, 2021, 07:23:41 PM
Hey Fac, you're making too much sense.

I want you to be the Knicks next coach.

Quote from: Fac on November 11, 2021, 09:36:39 PM
Lets let Thibs see how he can work it out.

I mean after Thibs. You can start with him, as an assistant coach. He could use your advice.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 11, 2021, 10:23:47 PM
MIL was missing 3 starters.

Stop already

This only matters with bad teams

Steven A corrected Wilbon on ESPN studio show - "Stop it - they still had Giannis - they still had Holiday...."

And wouldnt you think that when the second unit shooters are so hot it was actually a PLUS that K Middles missed the game?
Title: Doc Rivers
Post by: carlos123 on November 11, 2021, 10:36:10 PM
76ers lost again (They still have a better record than we do)

Chamaco very happy. He REALLY hates Doc Rivers.
- Help Chamaco Cartero! -
(he needs it much more than Andy Parker)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 12, 2021, 05:26:35 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 11, 2021, 10:23:47 PM
MIL was missing 3 starters.

Stop already
This only matters with bad teams

Completely wrong imo.
Having 5 man units out there who haven't played much NBA time together means defensive rotations will be missed, ball movement and spacing less crisp, decision-making on both ends less swift, etc.  And then there's the domino effect so that 3rd stringers become the 2nd unit, which is of course sub-optimal.  Indeed the Knick 2nd unit outplayed the remnants of the MIL bench and got NYK back in the game.  Typical when you're missing 2 or 3 players.  You have to rely on a lot of guys stepping up -- and 2 or 3 guys stepping up into starting roles,and three deep bench guys stepping up into 2nd unit roles.  No coach would say it doesn't matter.

Quote
Steven A corrected Wilbon on ESPN studio show - "Stop it - they still had Giannis - they still had Holiday...."
Steven A is entertainment and paid to be loudly opinionated and contrarian.
I haven't seen him in years, but likely he's still wrong about nearly everything.

Quote
And wouldnt you think that when the second unit shooters are so hot it was actually a PLUS that K Middles missed the game?
Very misguided thinking here.  The Ewing Effect or whatever.  Middleton is an excellent defender and can create his own shots.  Also draws defenders and feeds others. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 12, 2021, 08:51:14 AM
Steven A is entertainment and paid to be loudly opinionated and contrarian.


This isn't good forum.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 12, 2021, 08:53:14 AM
Very misguided thinking here.  The Ewing Effect or whatever.  Middleton is an excellent defender and can create his own shots.  Also draws defenders and feeds others.


But is not missed in the short term when his TEAM is cooking well - as in when they played Knicks.  After Celts-Bucks, we will re-visit
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 12, 2021, 11:21:16 AM
When ObiT was rampaging the 4Q, MIL would have surely liked to have Middleton out there.
There's also the ripple effect of Giannis and others have to play long minutes which can affect them for the next game.

On the play I described when Burks made a wrong rotation to double Embiid, Taj saw the error and sprinted all the way from doubling the left elbow 3 to try to contest GreenyDan's right corner 3.  Taj really hustles and works his ass off on every play.

Watching the MIL game, and an outside Bucks shot goes up, and Taj sees Giannis try to sneak baseline for a rebound, so Taj gets low and puts his butt into Greek's path.  Winds up with both on the ground.  This was like 16' out on the baseline, but Taj just wasn't taking anything for granted.  Also, loved when Taj blocked Giannis' paint shot.

Something I forgot to mention and didn't see anywhere.  On the play when Luka hit the buzzer beater v. Celts.  The ball went out of bounds with 12 secs left on the clock and under 6 on the shot clock.  Tie game.  Luka catches the ball and Smart fouls him as he crosses the midline, with 11 on the game clock, 5 on the shot clock.  The foul gave Mavs a new shot clock (so turned off then).  Without the foul, Luka is at halfcourt with 5 secs to get off a shot, and the Celts should get the ball back with 5 or 6 secs.  Instead the not so Smart foul let Luka have 11 secs and no shot clock to get the Celts the ball back.  Terrible foul.
Title: Why the starting lineup is struggling
Post by: Kam on November 12, 2021, 11:50:26 AM
In his last four games, Walkers is averaging 4.8 points, 3.0 assists and is shooting 22.9 percent overall and 10.5 percent from deep in 22.1 minutes of action. Last year, in what was considered his worst season in at least half a decade, Walker had three games in which he put up single digits total. He has now done it four times in a row.

On the year, Walker is averaging 7.1 drives per game in 25.7 minutes. He is hitting 39.3 percent of his 2.5 field goal attempts on these drives, and in perhaps the most telling number, is getting to the line just 0.4 times.

Some of these number are a far cry from last season (1.3 FTAs on 10.2 drives, with a 50.3 fg% on 4.1 FGA/gm in 31.8 minutes), to say nothing of his last season in Charlotte (15.2 drives in 34.9 minutes, good for 9th in the league, to go with 6.9 FGA/gm at 49.9 percent shooting and 2.4 FTA/gm).

---

Walker isn't driving to the hoop.
Fournier isn't making his long jump shots.
Mitchell looks hobbled.

3/5 of our SL is compromised in some fashion.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 12, 2021, 12:44:50 PM
Making it a really good time to shuffle the roles and responsibilities.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 12, 2021, 01:33:58 PM
In his last four games, Walkers is averaging 4.8 points, 3.0 assists and is shooting 22.9 percent overall and 10.5 percent from deep in 22.1 minutes of action.



Absolutely a problem moving forward - or is it?

Walker eats the minutes D Rose cannot handle.

Adding their production together would be wise.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 12, 2021, 09:47:49 PM
Kemba nearly outscored his old team 1Q.
17 point 1Q, yet finished a team worst -23.

RJ, JR & Fournier combined 7-30 FG.

Another Knick 3Q collapse.
I only saw the last 3.5 mins.
Bridges decided it was infrastructure week and hammered Randle.
LaMelo stacked up some #'s.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 12, 2021, 09:57:07 PM
MIL probably glad Giannis is out since Grayson Allen is shooting well ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 12, 2021, 10:13:52 PM
Starting team gets more and more awful.

Meanwhile the bench doing their magic in second half. Thought this would be the comeback that turns into a win. But when Rose left (injury?), so did our chances.

I get why Thibs put Randall back in. But scratching my head over why he took Taj out with a few minutes left for Barrett. Taj a lynchpin on defense, always smart, energetic, and has a nose for the ball on the other end. The results were grim.

BTW, Obi is a riot to watch this year. Fantastic energy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 12, 2021, 10:22:25 PM
Agree with all that, elephant.

I hope RJ has being out-hustled late by Ball burnt into his memory and vows never to let it happen again. 
Title: Knicks shooting
Post by: carlos123 on November 12, 2021, 11:51:21 PM
I couldn't see the game today, but one thing is clear: We were shooting lights out in the beginning and winning a lot.
Right now, it seems all we throw at the basket are bricks.
I guess over the length of the season we'll be somewhere in between.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 13, 2021, 02:57:00 AM
Who's better:Miles Bridges or Kevin Knox RJ Barrett?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 13, 2021, 01:36:24 PM
I think it is pretty close which bodes well for RJ who is two years younger and had a year less time as a pro. Play RJ with Rose instead of Kemba and he will look much better.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 13, 2021, 05:16:30 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 13, 2021, 01:36:24 PM
I think it is pretty close which bodes well for RJ who is two years younger and had a year less time as a pro. Play RJ with Rose instead of Kemba and he will look much better.

RJ as a sixth man?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 13, 2021, 05:38:14 PM
Kemba as 9 or 10, if not highly situational. A shot taken with Kemba closing out on you is an open shot. We cannot cover for him and he cannot sustain his offense enough to make it worth trying.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 13, 2021, 09:03:06 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 13, 2021, 05:16:30 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 13, 2021, 01:36:24 PM
I think it is pretty close which bodes well for RJ who is two years younger and had a year less time as a pro. Play RJ with Rose instead of Kemba and he will look much better.

RJ as a sixth man?

After we deal for Siakam.  Yes.  Bold thought.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 13, 2021, 09:58:36 PM
Good finish happening on NBATV - Celts at Cavs - 79 all after Cavs were down 20

Mobley just blocked Tatum's jam - from BEHIND.

Schroder all over the stat sheet again
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 13, 2021, 09:59:55 PM
You're right that the comp is a little unfair given the age difference and development curve.
But Miles Infrastructure is becoming a classic 3&D wing, with the driving and passing chops to be a borderline all-star.  He was touted as a strong versatile defender.  And the questions were about his scoring ability.  But he's really rounded out his offensive game, playing with extreme confidence, and has become consistent.  We'll see if he can sustain this level of play all season, but he was doing it the end of last year too. 

RJB keeps adding to his game. 
As a rook, started off as a transition weapon, man defender and strong driver going left.   
2nd year took a significant leap as a defender, especially close-out and switching D.  Which meant his D was pretty solid across the board, except for allowing backdoor cuts, which has continued this year as his man gets parked in the corner and then RJB drifts too far or becomes inattentive to his man.  2nd half of last year, RJB became a fairly deadly 3 point shooter. 
Now RJB has a better handle and can drive right some.  Has shown more passing chops, both kickouts and lobs to Mitch.  This is a bit inconsistent in his game, but the progress is certainly there. 

Future: Some more work on his handle and passing.  More consistency on his outside shooting.  And overall, try to develop more consistency between and during games.  Try to avoid lapses in concentration on both ends.  Consistency is the hardest thing to achieve for young players, and really all players.  But often differentiates the top of the line players from the good.  RJB already has a pretty nice two way game.  Is young and hard-working.  Promising.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 13, 2021, 10:08:20 PM
Bridges -  5 years 173 mil max extension

What will they do?
Title: Rook & Vet
Post by: bodiddley on November 13, 2021, 10:20:35 PM
Rubio & Mobley!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 13, 2021, 10:34:39 PM
Schroder  takes the last shot.  Game high scorer last game and this one, but I'd rather have Tatum on the last shot.  Though Tatum missed a game winner last night leading to OT.  Mobley also defending/dissuading Tatum.  Rubio stopped guarding the inbounder and dropped down to double Tatum.  Seemed flawed to have Tatum start near the lower sideline close to the ball, allowing Rubio to simply take two step and double Tatum while blockingg him from sprinting out top.   Methinks Ime Udoka needs a better inbounds play.
 
Schroder wound up with a 14' fallaway baseline J over 6'8" Ozman.  Not a bad shot, but if you're going to take a contested shot, better a 3 for the win, than a 2 for the tie.  While Schroder could have gotten it off a second or two earlier to allow for an o-board.

Cavs held Celts under 90.
The Mobley-A.Jar tower effect is working.  Defending.  With a healthy dose of Rubiayat.
CLE a surprising 9-5.

Mobley with a rim-block on Tatum around 5' left.  Then posted Tatum and scored easily under 3' left.  Also calmly knocked down a pair of late FT's.  Sam Mitchell compared Mobley to Bosh, who Mitchell coached in TOR.  Bosh, Garnett -- some of the comps Mobley will be hearing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 14, 2021, 10:26:55 AM
There were close to ten seconds left.  If you noticed (and this was pointed out in studio by Dennis 3D Scott) - Tatum gave up on the play totally.  He could have still been an option for Schroder.  Though I think in JT's defense the second option from Coach Idoka was likely a Schroder one v one.  JT just hangs out, then goes for a possible rebound, rather than make any cuts to try to receive from DS so I see what Scott is saying.  Schroder had a big game.  Option wasnt horrible - though you want to shoot maybe a tick or 2 sooner to ensure a possible second attempt off a rebound if you are DS.  Well defended by Cavs.  And you are right about Mobley - he's a beast.  Funny what all of us dont know - have NO WAY OF knowing - predraft.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 14, 2021, 01:13:47 PM
I'd be pretty sure the Schroder 1-on-1 was the 2nd option.  And BOS did a good job of clearing out the right side, so Schroder could drive right, by far his preferred path.  A reasonable attempt, though I'd rather a 3 for the W and slightly earlier.

Just Celts keep losing these close games and that's going to cost them in the playoff seedings, might lead to dissension, confidence issues and/or questioning the coach/coaching/stars. 
BOS lost opening game 2OT to NYK; lost another 2OT to WAS; lost on a buzzer beater by Luka; lost another OT to MIL; and now a 2 Point loss to the Cavs where they couldn't score on the last play.  They've only won 1 close game, an OT victory over CHA.
Celts 6-7.  13 games in and already played 4 OT games. 1-3 record in those overtimers.

Celts need to figure things out quickly.
They play another game @ CLE, then @ ATL. Then not an easy end to NOV.
Then Celts DEC is BRUTAL:
PHI
followed by a 5 game West Coast Road trip
(UTA/POR b2b; LAL/LAC b2b; PHX).
5 game homestand = MIL, GSW/NYK b2b: PHI, CLE
@ MIL, @ MIN, LAC

14 games and just one weak opponent.
Don't be surprised if the 6-7 Celts are sporting a losing record to start the New Year ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 14, 2021, 01:19:01 PM
Haven't seen MIN, but looking at the box of a beatdown from LAC, Towns with just 11FG's.  4th most on the team.  Edwards 22 FG's; Tangelo 16; Jaden McDaniels who has a PER under 6 took 14 shots.  All of them played between 30-34 mins.  What's going on in Wolf country?
102 FG's and Towns got a mere 11 of them.

MIN gave up 129 points, 70 in the 1st half.
Seems the same old, up mid-north.

Edit: Tangelo 39% FG.  Edwards 33% on 3's and his across the board numbers look a lot like his rook season.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 14, 2021, 02:14:53 PM
Yeah Wolves not clicking - give it some time
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 14, 2021, 02:17:04 PM
With developing teams, often comes down to can you tread water at least on the road?
Title: So Far, So Far
Post by: chipstern on November 14, 2021, 02:35:45 PM
Go Figure

Wizards [9-3]

Nets [9-4]

Cavs [9-5]

Bulls [8-4]

Sixers [8-6]

Knicks [7-6]

Celtics [6-7]

Bucks [6-7]

Pacers [6-8]

Hawks [4-9]
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 14, 2021, 02:38:47 PM
Some of us had MOST of the East improving, which has to affect win totals of the better teams

Some pretty good early exec of year candidates, for sure
Title: Re: So Far, So Far
Post by: chipstern on November 14, 2021, 02:46:58 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 14, 2021, 02:35:45 PM
Go Figure

Wizards [9-3]

Nets [9-4]

Cavs [9-5]

Bulls [8-4]

Sixers [8-6]

Knicks [7-6]

Celtics [6-7]

Bucks [6-7]

Pacers [6-8]

Hawks [4-9]

It's a long damn season. 

Again, Mobley, Allen and Rubio really driving Cavs ascent, even without Sexton, Love and Markkanen. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 14, 2021, 02:54:14 PM
Okoro missed a bunch of games as well.
Came back last game and missed all 7 of his shots.
Lamar Stevens played pretty well in his stead.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 14, 2021, 03:03:34 PM
By the way - I like Barrett.  Always have.

Hard not to like Bridges more.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 14, 2021, 03:27:53 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 14, 2021, 02:54:14 PM
Okoro missed a bunch of games as well.
Came back last game and missed all 7 of his shots.
Lamar Stevens played pretty well in his stead.

There is more to Okoro's game than shooting, not unlike that Rubio fellow. 

Every team needs some defensive stoppers. 

Not unlike our own Knicks. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 14, 2021, 03:30:36 PM
Again, Mobley, Allen and Rubio really driving Cavs ascent, even without Sexton, Love and Markkanen.


Well, Sexton did play in the first SEVEN wins

And DARIUS GARLAND has been quite good - close to 50/40/90
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 14, 2021, 03:36:09 PM
As for Wolves they have beaten Lakers and Bucks

Lost to Pels, Magic.  Other 6 were to good teams.  One by 2 to Nugs, 1 in OT to Grizz

Tough to tell
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 14, 2021, 03:53:10 PM
Mobley is benefiting from the excellent play and development of Allen. Garland is benefiting from Rubio and the aforementioned bigs. They have a nice core to build on.

I would like to see Taj and Sims at center until Mitch and Noel heal up.

I would like to see Rose and Quickley absorb some of the minutes played by Walker. I think the best use of Walker right now is one sprint to put up 10 - 15 points per half starting when it looks like his defensive liabilities will get us into the least trouble. I do not think he should open or close based on his current level of play and who else is on the roster. If he is cooking and the D is holding he could easily finish a half or a game.

Does Tom have the latitude from Leon to do that? Does Tom trust he has it, if these are even moves he would consider making.

Keeping the second unit together was a nice idea, but sticking with it will put us in the playin games or worse.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 15, 2021, 07:11:00 AM
James Herbert:

Quote
As ESPN's Tim Bontemps pointed out, New York's starting five has played more minutes than any lineup in the NBA, and ... has scored 104.9 points per 100 possessions and allowed 119.3 per 100.

When the Knicks signed Walker and Fournier in the offseason, they could have reasonably expected a bump in offense and a bit of defensive slippage. Broadly, this is indeed what has happened, but the defense has declined dramatically and the offensive improvement has come from the second unit, not the starters.

New York has been pretty consistent when it comes to taking care of the ball. It is giving up a ton of 3s off dribble penetration, however, and it has gone from an above-average defensive rebounding team to a below-average one. Offensively, the spacing looks better than it used to, but the starters haven't been particularly efficient. Randle is shooting 11 for 23 (26 percent) on long 2s, per Cleaning The Glass, and Walker, who is theoretically a source of rim pressure, has shot 4 for 14 at the rim with a free throw rate of 11.2 percent, by far the lowest of his career. Much has been made of the energy at Madison Square Garden, but the Knicks have now had a string of disappointing performances at home.

One potential fix: Start Burks in place of Fournier. Burks is a superior perimeter defender, and that's the starting lineup's most glaring weakness. If Thibodeau chooses to go this route, though, there will be ripple effects. Simply putting Fournier in Burks' place on the second unit, next to Rose and Quickley, is a recipe for disaster defensively. New York appears to miss Reggie Bullock, and the identity that it built last season -- that of a tough, connected, physical, defense-first team -- has not carried over. At 7-5, the Knicks are not in some kind of horrible funk, but they're not playing up to Thibodeau's standards, either.

IMO, Fournier is a below average defender, and Burks is worse.  Burks makes bad decisions, terrible rotations, can't be trusted on switches.  Burks is a more active defender, but that doesn't matter when your actions are often detrimental.  last year, I used to replay egregious Knick defensive breakdowns, and it was almost always Burks or Randle.  With a little Quix, ObiT and even RJB getting burned backdoor now and then.

Also, I think Knix need more consistent offense on the 1st unit, and Burks is a streaky fellow.
Really Burks can just play more minutes on the 2nd unit which Thibs has started doing.

The obvious shakeup is to start Rose.  Even more radical, start Rose and Taj, as they are a nice tandem.  And Taj is an energy guy.  Then ObiT gets to pair with Mitch/Noel, whoever is ambulatory.

Obviously Kemba is the weakest link on D and hasn't been much on O, outside the CHA flamethrowing.  Rose - Fournier - RJB - Randle - Taj.  I'd be interested in seeing how that plays out.  At least I'm not the only one who misses Reg's Bullocks.  There was a reason the Celts moved on from their erstwhile starting backcourt.  And took a chance on nice 2-way JoshRich who has been struggling to find a good fit (and to be consistent).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 15, 2021, 08:48:18 AM
Interesting -

So many of us were just KILLING the Vegas guys for their O/U of 41.5 for Knicks, acting as if we'd all bet our left nut that Knicks go over that number.

And here we are - even after seeing flashes of brilliance from our charges this early season - yet needing a win vs Indiana tonight to stay above .500.

Big game?

Yeah, I would say - for appearances sake.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 15, 2021, 08:56:23 AM
My adjustment is this -

Walker
Fournier
Burks
Randle
Robinson

secondarily...

Walker
Fournier
Barrett
Toppin
Randle

or combine

Walker
Fournier
Burks
Toppin
Randle

Likely starters stay the same - with possibly shorter leash.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 15, 2021, 09:26:39 AM
LAST 5 GAMES, first halves - PG position

Vs Charlotte -

Walker a plus 7 first half, Rose a +2

Vs Bucks

Walker a -6 early - Rose comes in and throws up a +4 (remember this isnt vs same cast as Walker vs Bucks starters).  Then Walker/Rose play together - for 6 minutes - at a -7.

Win vs Philly

Walker out to a -2.  Rose runs a +15.  Last 6 minutes both play and its EVEN.

Loss to Cavs (no Walker)

Rose out at EVEN (7:50).  Burks a +1 (8:11).  They play together about 4 minutes at -2.  Rose finishes half - +2

Win vs Bucks

Walker out at -13 (7:16).  Rose plays rest of half - at a +6.


- THIBS knows when Walker needs pine tme - and how much.  He isn't just sticking to designs.  TRUST THIBS.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 15, 2021, 09:57:34 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 15, 2021, 08:56:23 AM
My adjustment is this -

Walker - Fournier - Burks - Randle - Robinson

4 poor defenders and a gimpy Mitch.  What could go wrong?

Quote
secondarily...
Walker - Fournier - Barrett - Toppin - Randle

4 poor defenders and no backline defensive presence.
What could go right?

Quote
or combine
Walker - Fournier - Burks - Toppin - Randle

Start your 5 worst defenders ... what?!?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 15, 2021, 12:46:31 PM
Good piece with Fournier quotes on defense as well as some stats (was once a 2.5 defensive win share player)

https://www.orlandopinstripedpost.com/2020/12/3/22150400/orlando-magic-evan-fournier-2020-nba-training-camp
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 16, 2021, 12:29:52 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 15, 2021, 08:48:18 AM
Interesting -

So many of us were just KILLING the Vegas guys for their O/U of 41.5 for Knicks, acting as if we'd all bet our left nut that Knicks go over that number.

And here we are - even after seeing flashes of brilliance from our charges this early season - yet needing a win vs Indiana tonight to stay above .500.

Big game?

Yeah, I would say - for appearances sake.

Defining game, yes.

Showed commitment.
Title: Wow!!!
Post by: carlos123 on November 16, 2021, 12:41:44 AM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on November 16, 2021, 12:29:52 AM

Defining game, yes.

Showed commitment.

Cannot believe what I am gonna say.

But this time I agree 100% with Chamaco.

What is wrong with me?

- Help Chamaco Cartero and los123! -
(they need it much more than Andy Parker)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 16, 2021, 01:33:00 AM
That was a nice one to get.

Let Mitch get right. Taj & Sims time up front. With maybe sone Obi sprinkled in if the situation warrants it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 16, 2021, 11:08:38 AM
New Yorks best players this season have been their two backup guards. Good things seems to happen whenever Derrick Rose and Immanuel Quickley are in the game. As of midnight, 344 two-man combos had played at least 175 minutes together this season. Four had a net rating above 20. Rose and IQ are one of them.

After achieving a plus-21 and plus-20 on/off in tonights win, Derrick Rose and Immanuel Quickley now rank 3rd and 16th in the NBA in total on/off, respectively.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 16, 2021, 11:12:47 AM
The main issue I see with the starters is Randle needing to make the adjustment to Kemba.    Even though Payton was the starter last year, Randle really ran the offense. 

Take a look at Randle's amount of dribbles per touch this season.  Given a better PG this year and he is still dribbling the same amount.  More in fact.  As Randle's answer is always play harder.  Well this time he needs to play smarter.  He needs to trust Kemba with the ball and go back to less ISO, more finding ways to score without being the black hole on offense he sometimes is.


2017-18, LAL: 16.1 points in 26.7 mpg, 51.1 touches/gm, 1.35 dribbles per touch

2018-19, NOP: 21.4 points in 30.6 mpg, 59.5 touches/gm, 1.80 dribbles per touch

2019-20, NYK: 19.5 points in 32.5 mpg, 68.8 touches/gm, 1.67 dribbles per touch

2020-21, NYK: 24.1 points in 37.6 mpg, 83.6 touches/gm, 2.27 dribbles per touch

2021-22, NYK: 21.0 points in 35.6 mpg, 75.6 touches/gm, 2.28 dribbles per touch

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 16, 2021, 12:15:16 PM
After achieving a plus-21 and plus-20 on/off in tonights win, Derrick Rose and Immanuel Quickley now rank 3rd and 16th in the NBA in total on/off, respectively.


Nice
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 16, 2021, 12:20:03 PM
2020-21, NYK: 24.1 points in 37.6 mpg, 83.6 touches/gm, 2.27 dribbles per touch

This was the breakthrough to stardom year, right?

And THIS the subsequent year, which you seem to have trouble with?

2021-22, NYK: 21.0 points in 35.6 mpg, 75.6 touches/gm, 2.28 dribbles per touch

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 16, 2021, 12:34:08 PM
- THIBS knows when Walker needs pine tme - and how much.  He isn't just sticking to designs.  TRUST THIBS.



Ahem....

Indeed.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 16, 2021, 12:42:59 PM
Along with much of the Knick offense, Fournier has been rather slumpy in November:
38% FG & 23% from distance.  3-14 on 3's last 4 games.  Also 10 turnovers and just 14 assists in the 8 NOV games.  Missed the IND game.  Want to see if he's getting good looks, and the ratio of off the dribble to catch and shoot 3's.

Not sure Randle dribble quotient matters, as much as what they are in service to.  Randle dribbling on the perimeter and then launching a contested 18' is not good.  Randle dribble-driving into the paint, drawing a crowd and kicking out to an open shooter is good offense.  The latter likely to involve more dribbles.  Sure seems Randle is drawing doubles and kicking out less these days.  That used to be a Knick offense mainstay, getting lots of very open 3-point shots.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 16, 2021, 12:45:53 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 16, 2021, 12:20:03 PM
2020-21, NYK: 24.1 points in 37.6 mpg, 83.6 touches/gm, 2.27 dribbles per touch

This was the breakthrough to stardom year, right?

And THIS the subsequent year, which you seem to have trouble with?

2021-22, NYK: 21.0 points in 35.6 mpg, 75.6 touches/gm, 2.28 dribbles per touch

The new Walker and Fournier backcourt were supposed to - at least plausibly - make it easier for Julius to score.  His touches are down, leading to a decline in scoring, but when he gets the ball he is dribbling just as much.  Which tells me he isn't changing his style of play for the new comers but just deferring more.  That's not necessarily a problem.  But I think there is room there for Julius to explore life more often as a spot up shooter and not a -- run the offense though me -- player.  Let Randle be a floor spacer so that Walker and Fourneir have room for their games to shine.  That would lead to a decrease in dribbles per touch.   And would to me be a sign of a healthier offense with the ability to beat you with Julius on or off the ball.   In the playoffs they'll force Julius to play that way.  So we may as well start using him like this:  0.5 dribbles per touch

(https://cdn.substack.com/image/fetch/w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_lossy/https%3A%2F%2Fbucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-437e-9518-adb32be77984.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb4fbff53-ab40-407e-8e55-7cea7734ae0d_480x258.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 16, 2021, 12:58:04 PM
This is another example of a good use of Walker and Julius together in the high pick and roll.  Need to use Julius more like this:  1.0 dribble per touch

(https://cdn.substack.com/image/fetch/w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_lossy/https%3A%2F%2Fbucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-437e-9518-adb32be77984.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff62ffde5-c395-4f4c-8a4e-5b35585812df_480x260.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 16, 2021, 01:02:11 PM
Or this:  1.5 dribbles per touch

(https://cdn.substack.com/image/fetch/w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_lossy/https%3A%2F%2Fbucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-437e-9518-adb32be77984.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F8392f005-9b2f-4b54-aa39-1a61946d3a43_480x260.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 16, 2021, 01:03:18 PM
Anytime he takes more than two dribbles it's probably gonna be a turnover.  And as you see in those clips he can score or find the open man (who needs to shoot better) without pounding his dribble and backing in like he's Patrick in the paint.  Also when over-dribbling he has a tendency to look at his man guarding him as a mano y mano challenge and he goes into a take the game over mentality.  I'd rather he deferred to Kemba.   The second unit defers to IQand Rose and they're prospering.   Toppin isn't out there dribbling the ball at the top of the key and backing his man down for a tough fade away.   It's hard to win playing that style and last year the Knicks were historically lucky that opposing teams weren't making open threes against them.  That style that worked last year for Randle and the Team success... aint working anymore.   Give the keys to Kemba and let him make the game easier for you Julius. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 16, 2021, 01:42:08 PM
A non-issue, I think

The idea was to add a couple of guys who could help JR with the scoring load.

24 down to 21 isnt all too problematic for this team
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 16, 2021, 01:47:27 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 15, 2021, 07:11:00 AM


IMO, Fournier is a below average defender, and Burks is worse.  Burks makes bad decisions, terrible rotations, can't be trusted on switches.  Burks is a more active defender, but that doesn't matter when your actions are often detrimental.  last year, I used to replay egregious Knick defensive breakdowns, and it was almost always Burks or Randle.  With a little Quix, ObiT and even RJB getting burned backdoor now and then.


It's only fair then to replay this wonderful bit of Burks defense from last night as the Knicks were making their second half comeback.

(https://cdn.substack.com/image/fetch/w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_lossy/https%3A%2F%2Fbucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-437e-9518-adb32be77984.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff2354869-1239-4371-9594-096b9e67c1d4_480x262.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 16, 2021, 01:56:14 PM
Now THAT'S some overdribbling
Title: SoS
Post by: Kam on November 16, 2021, 05:49:05 PM
http://powerrankingsguru.com/nba/strength-of-schedule.php (http://powerrankingsguru.com/nba/strength-of-schedule.php)

According to this site the Knicks have the 6th easiest remaining strength of schedule. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 17, 2021, 05:51:11 AM
Mobley had a rough 0-11 FG game v. Celts and hurt his elbow 4Q, will miss 2-4 weeks.
Tough loss for CLE.

The CHI BallZo-Caruso backcourt has been fun to watch.  Bulls with a highly rated defense largely because their guards guard.  Both Zo and Caruso get tons of deflections and steals.

ObiT has a higher PER than Randle ...

DA Fox: 23% on 3's and shooting 4.6 of 'em per game

Ty Hero: 22 / 6 / 4 with nice %'s

Ty Maxey 17 /4 / 4  ... shooting splits  52/42/88

I didn't realize DeRozan was having such a good season.  he's been blah the two halves I've seen of Bulls games.  I was impressed with Caruso, while Zach Lavie did nice stuff while I was watching.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 17, 2021, 09:43:20 AM
Bulls are legit.  Was having a conversation recently and someone asked who I thought was making playoffs from East.

Miami
Brooklyn
Philly
CHICAGO

were my only definites.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 17, 2021, 11:20:56 AM
Mavs-Knicjs trade - sign me up

https://www.nbaanalysis.net/2021/11/16/nba-rumors-dallas-mavericks-new-york-knicks-trade-involves-mitchell-robinson/2/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 17, 2021, 12:38:13 PM
Right on, Cuz

Deep shooting big (47.8% this year for Maxi)
Title: And yet so far ...
Post by: bodiddley on November 17, 2021, 02:55:42 PM
Of the 8 players shooting 9 or more 3's per game, 6 are shooting a below average %.
Clarkson most egregious jacking 9.7 treys at a 25% clip.
Lillard 28%; Ant Edwards 33%; Reg Jax 33% (RegJax launching 9.4 triples a game!?!); Donovan Mitch 32%

Only Scurry and Hield, both 40%, are efficient.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 17, 2021, 03:22:54 PM
wow - keep us posted
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 17, 2021, 04:44:38 PM
Rose, IQ and Taj bringing it every.single.game.

Just...impressive.

As for the rest, a work-in-need-of-progress. I like Kam's suggestions (and illustrations) for changes in the offensive approach.

Were the first few games a mirage? Would love to see a big game from Fournier tonight.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 17, 2021, 05:05:52 PM
Last ten game scores for Rose -


6.5
1.6
-1.2
9.7
22.4
15.2
2.2
24.6
5.7
12.8
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 17, 2021, 05:37:01 PM
Is this your idea of a rebuttal?

It's as if you've been unwittingly making the case lately why some folks don't know how to use stats.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 17, 2021, 06:15:47 PM
I am sorry - what did you mean when you said Derrick "brings it every game"?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 17, 2021, 06:24:19 PM
Walker has been good his last 2 times out

And yet

-23
-15

I think the forum is too caught up in the +/-
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 17, 2021, 08:16:37 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 17, 2021, 06:15:47 PM
I am sorry - what did you mean when you said Derrick "brings it every game"?

I am sorry - you're asserting that points scored is the sole indicator of a player's energy and impact?
Title: Hmmmmm
Post by: chipstern on November 17, 2021, 09:57:00 PM
Julius

-21

Obi

+11

Turnovers and a barrage of wounded ducks from trey.
Title: Re: Hmmmmm
Post by: carlos123 on November 17, 2021, 10:07:32 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 17, 2021, 09:57:00 PM
Julius

-21

Obi

+11

Turnovers and a barrage of wounded ducks from trey.

Yes, and MINUTES:

Julius 32
Obi    18

How about, on certain games, 24-24. Case in point: this game.
Title: Re: Hmmmmm
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 17, 2021, 10:37:48 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 17, 2021, 09:57:00 PM
Julius

-21

Obi

+11



fuck off....

heh

Thibs psych jobs do not always show fruit.

Discuss.
Title: Mr. heh (and lol) strikes YET again #43846
Post by: carlos123 on November 17, 2021, 11:35:50 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on November 17, 2021, 10:37:48 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 17, 2021, 09:57:00 PM
Julius

-21

Obi

+11



fuck off....

heh

Thibs psych jobs do not always show fruit.

Discuss.

Why do not you just discuss it with yourself?

- Help Chamaco Cartero! -
(he needs it much more than Andy Parker)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 18, 2021, 12:15:33 AM
Since Metu and Homes can't contain KAT, Luke dusted off Bagley some.
seemed necessary.

Minny does some strange stuff.  Sometimes looks like a pickup team. Limited cohesion.

TWolves have Pa Bev but look like they could use another hardworking vet, a Taj type.
Though he was there with KAT for 2 years, prior to FA signing with NYK.
And his defense/example didn't exactly transfer to KAT ...

KAT 46% on 3's this year on volume shooting; 40% for his career.

Wolves have problems on both O & D.
TWolves 6th in 3's taken, 26th in 3PtFG%.
Here's KAT demonstrating leadership by showing the importance of getting back on D:
https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?GameEventID=440&GameID=0022100191&Season=2021-22&flag=1&title=MISS%20Edwards%2027%27%203PT%20Pullup%20Jump%20Shot&sct=plot
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2021, 08:12:26 AM
McDaniels and Beasley are better players than they have shown to date in '21-'22

Team is so young.  You are right - add a vet.

But vets sometimes rattle - and D'angelo/KAT want to run things.

One more top ten pick helps - sure - for next year.  But guys that are there already need to step up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2021, 08:14:28 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 17, 2021, 05:05:52 PM
Last ten game scores for Rose -


6.5
1.6
-1.2
9.7
22.4
15.2
2.2
24.6
5.7
12.8

next ten

4.0
-
-
-
-
-
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2021, 08:21:43 AM
Last night every home team in the league won.




Oops - my bad


Bad loss.  No doubt. 

Props only to Mitchell and Obi.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 18, 2021, 09:53:09 AM
With Luka Boychik out, all the DAL PG's played well.
Brunson a near trip-dub 18/ 9 / 9.
Trey Burke 10 pts in 15 mins.
Ntilikina 13 in 18 mins.
The latter 2 combining for 9-15 FG & 5-5 on 3's.

I swear I saw Frank  dribble away form his man who died on a KZ screen at the straightaway 3 Pt line, and then Frank continued to dribble and elude two more PHXers for a layup.  It wasn't the greatest help defense, and maybe they didn't expect Frank to waltz to the rim.  But nice going.  Headband Frank also launched one contested quick catch and shoot 3.  Announcers declaimed he looked like another player. 

KZ also put up numbers: 21 - 8 - 7  & 2 blocks.  Not efficient shooting, but reads like a Luka statline.  +9 when KZ was out there.  Everyone else a - (except +1 for Burke).  Well,they lost on the road by giving up 37 4Q points to the Suns. 

But good to see some guys, and ex-Knix to boot, stepping up.   Sometimes the Luka Show overwhelms things.  Last game, Luka and KZ ran a sort of high PnR and KZ popped out.  Passed back to Luka,. who gave it to KZ again.  LUka faked zooming out behind the 3-point line and cut back door.  Nice KZ feed and an open layup.  I'd like to see more such action.  Hard to guard.

Funny moment in Suns game, KZ catches the ball and the announcer says "KZ with the height advantage."   Uh, the guy is 7'3". He meant that KZ had a little guy on him, but it sounded silly.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 18, 2021, 11:14:41 AM
Franks is a happy Frenchman

Good guy.  Good to see.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 18, 2021, 11:25:53 AM
So what's up with Julius?

Is he just confused but making an honest effort to do what Thibs tells him?
Is he on some kind of passive-agressive slow down strike?
Is he not sleeping enough at night because of the new kid?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 18, 2021, 01:51:04 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on November 18, 2021, 11:25:53 AM
So what's up with Julius?

Is he just confused but making an honest effort to do what Thibs tells him?
Is he on some kind of passive-agressive slow down strike?
Is he not sleeping enough at night because of the new kid?

Gee, I don't know.

You tell me.

Team hoisted 49 treys.  Hit 16.

Stagnant offense.  Teams daring us to beat them from outside.  Can't remember last time JR was in low post.  Feeding cutters.

Mostly, turnovers, turnovers, lack of boarding, our ancient curse of closing out on three pointers. 

Maybe we just miss Elfrid.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 18, 2021, 01:52:45 PM
And Bullox ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2021, 02:48:17 PM
Reg struggling a bit as well.  Just not as obvious behind the 9-5 record.  And yes.  I know he contributes defensively.

How is Andrew Wiggins doing?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 18, 2021, 07:35:54 PM
Deuce had his GLeague debut. He, Luca, and Sims showed out in a win vs. the LI Nyets. Six days and they do it again.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 18, 2021, 08:16:41 PM
Start Rose and Burks, sit Evan and Kemba. The former know their shit in our system and make our stars look better. The later give one burst, then either get gassed or figured out. Let them run with IQ, Obi, and Taj.

It may not have been the plan, but it is clearly a better way forward this season.
Title: How to trigger BoZizzley
Post by: carlos123 on November 18, 2021, 10:07:30 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 18, 2021, 01:51:04 PM

Maybe we just miss Elfrid.

Quote from:  BoZizzley on November 18, 2021, 01:52:45 PM
And Bullox ...

Just mention anybody no longer on the roster, and BoZ comes back with his beloved Reggie  😜
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2021, 11:11:44 PM
Start Rose and Burks, sit Evan and Kemba. The former know their shit in our system and make our stars look better. The later give one burst, then either get gassed or figured out. Let them run with IQ, Obi, and Taj.


They just sucked ass.

I really think Barrett, as much as I like him, is the misfit.

Consider dealing him - yes.  But for now - second unit.  He may prosper.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2021, 11:14:05 PM
Walker, Fournier, Burks, Toppin, Randle

Lets go!

Second unit would be sweet.  Rose, Quicks, Barrett, X/X, Mitch.

(Fine with it being Randle, Mitch as first unit bigs)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 18, 2021, 11:57:59 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 18, 2021, 11:14:05 PM
Walker, Fournier, Burks, Toppin, Randle

The No D Crew!
And it doesn't even look coherent on O.

So who's the best defender in that lineup?
Fournier by default?
Guarantee Thibs will never use that unit.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 19, 2021, 12:09:06 AM
Fournier officially in a funk.  Doesn't even play 4Q's anymore.  Opening night career high seems a long time ago.
Randle should dribble more.  He tends to get the ball and just pass off quickly without threatening the D. 
Rose plays with energy, but his focus seems wavering too lately.  Those were some weak turnovers v ORL.

It does seem that all our energy guys are bench guys:
Rose, Taj, Quix, ObiT, Burks
Probably why our 2nd unit has been so good.

Maybe it's as simple as getting Randle, RJB, Fournier to be a bit more active.  Also, tell Kemba he's out there 15-18 minutes so he should play fast.  And get the ball moving.
Randle, Kemba, Fournier, RJB -- maybe it's too many guys with iso tendencies.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 19, 2021, 12:56:37 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 18, 2021, 08:16:41 PM
Start Rose and Burks, sit Evan and Kemba. The former know their shit in our system and make our stars look better. The later give one burst, then either get gassed or figured out. Let them run with IQ, Obi, and Taj.

It may not have been the plan, but it is clearly a better way forward this season.

the OBI/Quick pairing is looking quite potent.  I disagree about benching Kemba.  We need to empower him to lead.  Let him be the captain on the court.

Toppin & Quickley on court: positive 28.5 net rating, 100th percentile

Toppin & Quickley off court: negative 9.6 net rating; 15th percentile

(https://cdn.substack.com/image/fetch/w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fbucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-437e-9518-adb32be77984.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff3dda57d-b461-467d-8884-46418e049cbc_491x272.png)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 19, 2021, 01:01:10 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 19, 2021, 12:09:06 AM

Randle should dribble more.  He tends to get the ball and just pass off quickly without threatening the D. 


Randle is always a threat.  We don't want him dribbling the ball and spinning into turnovers.  We want him to make quick decisions to pass or shoot.  When LeBron came to Miami their record was 9-8 their first season after 17 games.  Eventually DWade let LeBron run the team.   Randle has to make a similar decision.  Trust Kemba with the keys to the car.  Don't go into dribble dribble ISO Melo mode.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 19, 2021, 01:32:15 PM
He's clearly been trying to do that last couple games.
But at times, like Bo says, he's almost giving it up too quickly.
Doesn't establish position or draw the defense, just gives up the rock.
It's been a little weird. Stuff being worked on and worked out clearly.
Suspect things will come together with practice, rhythm, improved execution. A lot of offensive ammunition in that starting lineup not firing effectively yet.


*** yes, that's no excuse for defensive intensity failures.
Title: Frustration
Post by: chipstern on November 19, 2021, 04:16:49 PM
Frustration.

I get it.

I am feeling it.

Radical solutions seem counter productive.

The second unit has cohesive  chemistry going back to last season.

The starting five has 15 games.

We are missing our startling center, our startling five has been inconsistent and Iincoherent on both sides of the ball.

Thibs has not adjusted to the zone D and packing the paint schemes the likes of Nate McMillan and others have concocted, nor has he evolved alternatives to living and dying by the three, though our starting five's D has dug.many a whole for us.

Still 15 games in and Knicks fans are screening replays of THE OX BOW.INCIDENT, and turning on a struggling Julius.

Fuck You.

Thibs has work to do and  must shoulder his share of responsibility.

We are neither as good nor as bad as we have shown.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 19, 2021, 04:46:22 PM
Every other player has to work that much harder defensively with Kemba on the floor that their output and efficiency on offense all take hits, especially against first units. I agree with 15 to 18 minutes, in one burst a half off the bench. If he is cooking, let him cook. If he is getting cooked, sit him down and go to the next guy or get the starter back in.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 19, 2021, 05:24:03 PM
4Q, especially late 4Q, v, ORL, it was all iso-Knix.  Burks jacking a shot, or RJB trying to get to the rim, etc.  Players only passed when forced to.  No offensive flow.  Randle just meekly passing the ball quickly without doing anything.

4Q, ObiT came in a made a couple mistakes, then played great for a few minutes and then reverted to making mistakes (fouls, turnovers, missed 3's).  His driving layup attempt under the 2' mark was wild and ugly.  And about the Knix last gasp.  He's still developing and at least getting more run as Julius is funkified and the 2nd unit coherent.

Very impressive play at the 2' mark when Wagner catches Quix taking a bad angle and blows by him from beyond the 3-Pt line and jams over RJB's late-arriving help defense.  Rarely see a rook assert himself like that in crunch time.  Suggs also made some big plays down the stretch.  Along with Cole Ant grinding it out on an off night, good to see ORL's yute looking so promising.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 20, 2021, 10:13:56 AM
Randle is always a threat.  We don't want him dribbling the ball and spinning into turnovers.  We want him to make quick decisions to pass or shoot.  When LeBron came to Miami their record was 9-8 their first season after 17 games.  Eventually DWade let LeBron run the team.   Randle has to make a similar decision.  Trust Kemba with the keys to the car.  Don't go into dribble dribble ISO Melo mode.   


Julius gets 5 assists per

This is not by simply catching and shooting or catching and moving the ball along

But if this is really what you want from our All Star - though no other All Star in the league plays this way - you go, pal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 20, 2021, 10:20:15 AM
Weird Knicks runout thus far though, I agree

7 losses

6 vs teams considered at or below our level going into the year.  Just one to a league titan (MILW)

Wins?  Boston. Philly. Bulls. Philly again. Milwaukee.

Shows that yes, we are good.  That yes, we will be there for a nice playoff run and likely appearance.

And in the East, there is likely no beast this year outside of Brooklyn, who we can play with.

Stop being caught up on little things like how many times a guy bounces a ball.
Title: Program note
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 20, 2021, 02:57:22 PM
Program note

Game is at 5 PM today
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 20, 2021, 05:24:21 PM
Sorrrry...

Saaaaaaame starters.
Title: Alec Burks
Post by: chipstern on November 20, 2021, 07:15:49 PM
Word must've gotten back to him that BoD had him handicapped as a lousy defender.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 20, 2021, 11:42:46 PM
So needed unlikely 4Q heroics to beat the worst team in the League at Home.
Let me guess ... it was almost all 1-on-1 iso ball.

Good to see Randle with a lot of assists.
We should play HOU more often ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 21, 2021, 06:55:05 AM
Gad, HOU had 3 ugly turnovers on their first 4 or 5 possessions.

Knick Defensive Breakdowns:

1Q
9:56 Randle doesn't notice Fournier got screened by his man.  Jalen Green zooms by an unaware Randle for a backdoor oop.  Oops.

6:37 Fournier thinks his man is going to use a Wood screen to get open outside.  So Jalen Green cuts backdoor instead.  Wide open but Theis rockets a bad pass.

So that's twice the Wood-JalenG screening action v. Randle-Fournier has been profitable.  Fournier does not look comfortable dealing with Green's speed.

5:42 A simple Gordon-Wood high PnR has Wood rampage down Broadway for a dunk.  Randle and Kemba didn't put up resistance.  Mitch failed to help.

Randle involved in the defensive miscues thus far.
Julius has tried to be more involved in the offense.  Popping some 3's, twice posting up like a bull and getting stymied, moving the ball quickly for open shots.  Much more purpose to his O; but pretty inattentive D.

5:10 Randle fails to block out and the Young Turk zooms in for an O-board (Mitch was blocking out Woods nicely).  Is this guy getting enough sleep?

Btw, horrible 1Q by Jalen Green

3:50 No help defense inside.  Kemba screened and Gordon drives to the rim.  Noel and Randle come over late.

1:45 Shengun crashes the O-boards while Noel boxes out air.

Extremely ugly 1Q.
Knix only gave up 20, party due to HOU throwing the ball away a ton.
The young Turk is quite interesting.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 21, 2021, 07:27:55 AM
2Q
11:10 Tate rebounds and dribbles all the way down to the other rim.  Simply bumps ObiT out of his way.

6' Randle twice has trouble with Wood getting by him.

I don't have time for more.
Haven't seen the 2nd half yet.
But wow what a bad first half from both teams
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 21, 2021, 09:27:23 AM
Let me guess ... it was almost all 1-on-1 iso ball.


I guess...

When we are going GOOD we are taking guys one on one as well.  The counter move to the "iso" is the pass to the open man.  First intention is usually to score.

That is the entire concept of the drive draw dish.

Laytely the pick and roll and creating swithces has also been in vogue.

Say what you mean - do you want more pick and roll?  Or maybe we just need to run them better (how often do you see a screen on the ballhandler's guy be ineffective - its maddening). Do you want to go back to the Riley days and run sets?  It's the entire league you are critiquing.

When we are missing threes the offense looks bad.  Key point #1.  But getting a good look can also be about improper spacing.  Are we smart enough?  Do shooters get to the right spots?  Generally, compared to other teams - no.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 21, 2021, 03:30:13 PM
Walton out and Gentry gets the Kings job. He definitely brings professionalism and experience.

Taj & Mitch are out. Noel, Sims, and possible Obi up front vs. Chicago.
Title: Luka Samanic
Post by: chipstern on November 21, 2021, 03:34:46 PM
Jericho Sims is one two-way contact.

Luka Samanic, former Spurs #1 pick, is the other. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-oSNK_X7Po (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-oSNK_X7Po)

Interesting. 

Okay, it's only G League, and it's not like he's scoring against Giannie or Ayton, but this is a skilled big man with size and an inside outside game.
Title: Bulls, No Bull
Post by: chipstern on November 21, 2021, 04:05:46 PM
Glad to see Fournier with a solid game. 

I was texting with a friend, and suggesting the time had come to take a look at McBride at the point for 8-10-12 minutes a game, roll back the Kemba/Derrick Platoon to 18-20. 

Thibs was thinking the same thing.  Only he inserted IQ at the point instead of Deuce. 

TT's 4th Quarter Closing Five was interesting.

Quickley
Burks
Fournier
Randle
Noel

Julius finding shooters off of the doubles.  Finished with 9 assists.  A hopeful sign. 

Took 10 threes.  Not so hopeful. 

For Thibs to bench RJ in the fourth was pretty significant. 

Burks more adept at creating his own shot.  And he was a force on both sides of the ball.  His stat line says it all:

6-7 from trey
2-2 FTs
5 boards
3 assists
5 steals

I'm sure I'm missing some evidence of how he actually sucks, but I trust BoD will break it down for me. 

Julius and RJ out of sorts with the starting five and with each other.  Neither Julius nor RJ are getting their looks in rhythm.  A combined 8-28, 3-11 from trey.  Still, Julius with 16-10-9 and only two turnovers. 

Meanwhile...the Bulls waiting to lay some hurt on us. 

For some reason, Knicks Brain Trust seemed cool to the idea of Lonzo Ball. 

Scott Perry was pushing for DeMar DeRozan, who is having a significant second act with the Bulls and not unlike D-Rose, has embraced the three ball. 

Caruso was a terrific pickup.  He is a presence on both sides of the ball, either as a shooter or a facilitator.  How the fuck did the Lakers let him walk? 

We catch a break with Vucevic in COVID protocols, but the Ball-Lavine-DeRozan tandem is hellacious.  Bulls have really turned things around. 



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 21, 2021, 04:06:21 PM
Program note

Knicks-Bulls 8 PM

Statement game.
Title: Dallas Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on November 21, 2021, 06:46:27 PM
KP with a team high 25 points in a loss to the Clippers. He still sucks.

BoZ's beloved Bullock with 0 (ZERO) points in 32 minutes.

PS. "KP tosses salads in Dallas" - Kamster the Hamster.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 21, 2021, 07:53:12 PM
No Mitch

No Taj
Title: Chamaco doesn't read
Post by: carlos123 on November 21, 2021, 09:26:02 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on November 21, 2021, 07:53:12 PM
No Mitch

No Taj

Chamaco, Fac told us this at 3:30 in the afternoon.

So..., lets see, you're 4:23 hours late 🙄

- Help Chamaco Cartero! -
(he needs it much more than Andy Parker)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 21, 2021, 11:58:55 PM
Yikes. How far is Tom gonna let things slide before he makes some changes?
Title: How far?
Post by: carlos123 on November 22, 2021, 12:16:39 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 21, 2021, 11:58:55 PM
Yikes. How far is Tom gonna let things slide before he makes some changes?

He has changed the closers. What else can he do?
Maybe the team just does not have enough talent.
Maybe we need you on the coaching staff.
Maybe both, and even that will not be enough.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 22, 2021, 07:15:08 AM
Fairly ugly game.
Knix comeback during a 3Q foulathon.
Both teams take bad shots.
I like Caruso and Ball.  Not sure why they didn't play together more this game.
Coby White looked awful.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 22, 2021, 07:34:26 AM
Coby White looked awful.


Yet he killed us.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 22, 2021, 07:39:24 AM
Lonzo Ball

4-85

We passed, I guess.  Or weren't we given the chance?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 22, 2021, 11:00:16 AM
Coby White looked awful.
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 22, 2021, 07:34:26 AM
Yet he killed us.

We killed ourselves.
Awful thru 3Q's, then hit 2 corner 3's in the 4Q.

Odd CHI team.
Limited size, limited 3-pt shooting.
But they hit their FT's.
Caruso and BallZo are menaces.
I liked Ball's random double teaming.

Another empty game from Fournier.
Rose didn't really have it; his rhythm looked off on many shots.
Randle was a workhorse, but his D was bad especially 1st half.
IQ 1-8 on 3's, including a key late miss that wasnt close.

At least Knix were in the game despite not playing well.
Some scrappy D.  Lotta fouls by both teams.  And that's with the refs allowing a lot of contact in the 1st half.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 22, 2021, 12:20:12 PM
Randle was a workhorse, but his D was bad especially 1st half.


You are daft.
Title: Changes?
Post by: chipstern on November 22, 2021, 02:34:57 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 21, 2021, 11:58:55 PM
Yikes. How far is Tom gonna let things slide before he makes some changes?

Didn't you notice any changes? 

More forays into the paint, less threes [7-27 vs 18-41 against Houston], Julius more in the midrange pocket [34-10-3 on 13-19, 7-8 FT, 1-2 from trey, but 5 TOs].   Better D throughout, which was encouraging, though a late barrage of open threes by [among others] that "AWFUL" Cobey White [BoD must've been watching the Chinsese translation] and DeMar's efficiency buried us...JR did his part, but the Knicks' shooting was not good, and while RJ played tuff D and had 15 rebounds, his shooting slump [2-10] continues to confound. 

Again, FACIL...CHANGES? 

What do you propose, exactly? 

Shuffling starters and second unit players, which risks sundering the second unit's chemistry? 

Banishing Kemba and Evan to the pine?  Not sure how this benefits us short term-long term?

Or that KNICKS Fan/Media Standby....TRADES? 

Thibs HAS BEEN making changes, mostly on the back end in the fourth quarter, as per WHO FINISHES. 

Again, I saw the echoes of JR's 20-21 game as "CHANGES", inserting IQ as a closing PG as changes. 

Thibs is trying to not lose his vets. 

Obviously, Kemba & Evan [ex-Celtics one hastens to add] have been wildly inconsistent. 

So, just bench them for McBride & Grimes? 

Bench RJ? 

Start Rose & Burks? 

And what becomes of the Second Unit? 

I do not believe that Thibs' options are as cut and dry as people imagine. 

But I am curious as to how you see Thibs' options moving forward. 

PS: As per BoD's learned dismissal of Cobey as naught but two late treys?  CW had 14 pts and was a +9 in 21 minutes, while Zach had 21 pts but was a -8 in 36. 
Title: Random Karma
Post by: chipstern on November 22, 2021, 02:44:36 PM
Michael Porter has mysterious nerve issues in his back, and might just miss the entire season. 

Damn shame. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 22, 2021, 04:44:38 PM
"Fan/Media standby - trades"

Why not?  We should let others have this pleasure - to improve - but not partake?"

What have we gotten from not dealing Frank and Kevin?

Is the worry of having dealt the great Camby still in your fucking craw?

Shittttt......
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 22, 2021, 07:15:34 PM
Speaking of old trades ..

Mitchell Robinson is the end result of a chain of trades that started with the Knicks signing John Starks as a free agent in 1990
Robinsons roster spot has been in the making for over 30 years. After the Knicks signed Starks, they traded him for Latrell Sprewell, who was traded for Keith Van Horn.

He was traded for Nazr Mohammed.

He was traded for David Lee.

He was traded for Anthony Randolph.

And he was traded for Carmelo Anthony. When the Knicks traded Melo to OKC, they got (among other things) a second round pick back, which they used to draft Robinson. All of this from taking a flyer on John Starks in 1990!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 22, 2021, 07:18:51 PM
Robinson's spot might have a 30 odd year legacy but it's nothing compared to Landry Shamet's spot on the Suns.

Shamet <- Jevon Carter <- De'Anthony Melton <- Brandon Knight <- Tyler Ennis <- Marcin Gortat <- Maciej Lampe <- Stephon Marbury <- Chris Dudley <- Luc Longley <- Mark Bryant <- Charles Barkley <- Jeff Hornacek <- David Thirdkill <- Rich Kelley <- Brook Steppe (draft pick 1980)

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 22, 2021, 11:07:12 PM
Makes me wonder how well the Mavs have to finish for their pick to convey this year.

We were down 20 to 8 at our first sub, making it uphill sledding the rest of the way. I
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 22, 2021, 11:42:23 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 22, 2021, 11:07:12 PM
Makes me wonder how well the Mavs have to finish for their pick to convey this year.

We were down 20 to 8 at our first sub, making it uphill sledding the rest of the way. I

Nope

2023
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 23, 2021, 02:48:57 AM
You are so right. My bad.

I want a best foot forward front lineup and suitable roles for the guys that are left.

Here is a give Randle the Keys lineup, moving Kemba and Evan to the Bench for IQ and Burks. You are getting D at the point of attack and energy from IQ who, while not Kemba or Rose, has improved his handle and diversified his game. Burks has more familiarity with the other cogs in the lineup as well as our D and shoots as well as Evan.

This gives you Rose, Kemba, Evan, and Obi as your reserve point getters.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 23, 2021, 12:45:19 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 23, 2021, 02:48:57 AM
You are so right. My bad.

I want a best foot forward front lineup and suitable roles for the guys that are left.

Here is a give Randle the Keys lineup, moving Kemba and Evan to the Bench for IQ and Burks. You are getting D at the point of attack and energy from IQ who, while not Kemba or Rose, has improved his handle and diversified his game. Burks has more familiarity with the other cogs in the lineup as well as our D and shoots as well as Evan.

This gives you Rose, Kemba, Evan, and Obi as your reserve point getters.

I could get behind this type of thinking.  Moving Kemba and Evan to the bench lifts the pressure off of them as newcomers and doesn't single either one out for the Knicks struggles.  Besides, the numbers indicate that of all the issues facing this team at the moment, the lack of on court chemistry between Randle and Walker tops the list.


Randle and Walker together: negative 12.9 net rating, 778 minutes

Randle on, Walker off: positive 8.8 net rating, 431 minutes

As far as minutes with Walker on and Randle off its too small a sample size, there have been just 14 such possessions this season.

If you're not going to give Walker the keys (as i've been advocating for) to the starting lineup because you're ok with running the O thru Randle based on last year's success then fine, give Walker the keys to the second team.  Let him have a role on this team.  I think many assumed (me among them) that Walker would be an upgrade to the starting lineup and basically be Elfrid Payton with an offensive game.  But it turns out that if you want an "Elfrid Payton who can shoot" that player isn't Kemba Walker.   He isn't the kind of guy to just bring the ball up and look for Julius every time like Elfrid did and he isn't the defensive player that Payton was.  Walker is an undersized PG.  He needs the ball in his hands to effect the game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 23, 2021, 02:11:26 PM
Be good to have one more defender out there with Julius
RJB, Mitch/Noel and one other solid defender in the starting lineup.

When 3 of your starters are underperforming, good chance your PG is at fault.
Start Rose.  And if Mitch/Noel are ailing, I'd be up for Rose & Taj starting.
They provide energy and have chemistry together.  Would set a tone.
Right now Knix aren't good on either side of the ball.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 23, 2021, 02:56:21 PM
Suggestions from Jonathan Macri:

Against Chicago in the 3rd quarter we saw a three minute stretch where Walker runs the offense, followed by a similar stretch of time that Randle gets to dominate.  If keeping them both in the starting lineup maybe this is how they should play.

It is clear that if Walker isnt dominating the ball, even with his penchant for drawing charges, he offers less value than anyone on the team. For that reason, for as long as he is on this roster, he should be playing backup minutes - something like 18-20 a game. I would suggest making him the actual backup point guard, however . .     

The bench is the best thing about this team right now. Why mess with it?

Give the Randle / Fournier two-man game more time to gel. When it has worked, it has worked beautifully. For as much shit as Fournier has gotten this season, when he has been on the court with Julius and no Kemba, the Knicks have outscored teams by an absurd 16.2 points per 100 possessions in a not that insignificant sample size of 211 possessions, according to Cleaning the Glass. Those two just make sense together.

As long as Mitch looks like this, Nerlens Noel needs to start. The team has a positive 16.9 net rating during Noels limited minutes, and while only 30 of those have come with the full starting five, the results have been quite good. Meanwhile, Mitchs on/off with the subs has also been night and day from when he has been with the starters.
Title: Obi!
Post by: carlos123 on November 23, 2021, 10:34:26 PM
Good to see Toppin play 21 mins with 12 points and a team best +15.
Go Obi!!!⛹🏾‍♂️

Hey Kamster, your fave IQ did pretty good too!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 23, 2021, 10:49:42 PM
AWESOME!

LA wanted that game bad.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 23, 2021, 11:17:28 PM
Nice to send the FizzMelos home disappointed.

We are fairly potent when we hit threes.

I am still of the opinion that a lineup shuffle would help this team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 24, 2021, 07:37:20 AM
 Roles are important

Stability is important

And of course thumbs up to good offense. Without it you win bupkus.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 24, 2021, 08:49:58 AM
Knix with a big 1Q.
Fournier hitting.

2Q 11' mark: Knix have 5 players equally spaced around the 3 Point line.
I'm looking for some cutting, but NYK are stationary.  Randle gets the ball up top, Dwight covering, and inexplicably Melo leaves his man to double Randle.
Randle simply passes off to Melo's man who then keeps it moving to ObiT in the corner.
ObiT drives for a nice layup instead of going with his adventurous corner 3's.
What was Melo thinking?

Westbrook is such a disaster.  Comical at times.
Worst star ever?

Title: "And Wilt Is Overrated..."
Post by: chipstern on November 24, 2021, 10:16:59 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 24, 2021, 08:49:58 AM
Knix with a big 1Q.
Fournier hitting.

2Q 11' mark: Knix have 5 players equally spaced around the 3 Point line.
I'm looking for some cutting, but NYK are stationary.  Randle gets the ball up top, Dwight covering, and inexplicably Melo leaves his man to double Randle.
Randle simply passes off to Melo's man who then keeps it moving to ObiT in the corner.
ObiT drives for a nice layup instead of going with his adventurous corner 3's.
What was Melo thinking?

Westbrook is such a disaster.  Comical at times.
Worst star ever?

Another bold insight.

31 points

With an 18 point third quarter.

🐾🐾🐾
Title: Re: "And Wilt Is Overrated..."
Post by: chipstern on November 24, 2021, 11:05:43 AM
Quote from: chipstern on November 24, 2021, 10:16:59 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 24, 2021, 08:49:58 AM
Knix with a big 1Q.
Fournier hitting.

2Q 11' mark: Knix have 5 players equally spaced around the 3 Point line.
I'm looking for some cutting, but NYK are stationary.  Randle gets the ball up top, Dwight covering, and inexplicably Melo leaves his man to double Randle.
Randle simply passes off to Melo's man who then keeps it moving to ObiT in the corner.
ObiT drives for a nice layup instead of going with his adventurous corner 3's.
What was Melo thinking?

Westbrook is such a disaster.  Comical at times.
Worst star ever?

Another bold insight.

31 points

With an 18 point third quarter.

🐾🐾🐾

A Triple Double.

And five TOs.

The price of aggression.

Not unlike our own Mister Randle.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 24, 2021, 11:23:37 AM
Tuesday May 11th 2021, the Knicks had won 13 of their last 16 games to pull into a virtual tie for the 4th seed with the Hawks.   Knicks are visiting the Lakers and Randle is playing great.  The Knicks are up 85-75 with a little under 8 minutes to play in regulation.   But then Randle goes into his one-vs-one mode against his Kentucky counterpart Anthony Davis and the Knicks fritter away the lead and lose in Overtime, dropping them momentarily to 5th in the standings.


Fast forward to last night.  And this play in the first quarter gave me deja-vu vibes.  Were we in for another "attempt to make a statement" game by Julius where he just tries to go one on one vs a very good defender all night just to prove he is "the man"?   

(https://cdn.substack.com/image/fetch/w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_lossy/https%3A%2F%2Fbucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-437e-9518-adb32be77984.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1a9f5c5f-b87c-42d7-a0a1-f41ac9c6a4d9_480x268.gif)

It's funny how he slowed and how deliberate and calculated his movements above were when he took AD (like he wanted to make a statement). -- but here he reduced his dribbles and time of possession as he just blows by lesser defenders. 

(https://cdn.substack.com/image/fetch/w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_lossy/https%3A%2F%2Fbucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-437e-9518-adb32be77984.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F37cefce0-f944-4a2c-8627-0f8d7dd2fc21_480x268.gif)

Here's some great help by Fournier.  I love his level of energy.  He makes plays.

(https://cdn.substack.com/image/fetch/w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_lossy/https%3A%2F%2Fbucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-437e-9518-adb32be77984.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F70f00474-73dc-450c-8fd0-0e5a5166f9d3_480x238.gif)



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 24, 2021, 12:18:12 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 24, 2021, 11:23:37 AM
Tuesday May 11th 2021, the Knicks had won 13 of their last 16 games to pull into a virtual tie for the 4th seed with the Hawks.   Knicks are visiting the Lakers and Randle is playing great.  The Knicks are up 85-75 with a little under 8 minutes to play in regulation.   But then Randle goes into his one-vs-one mode against his Kentucky counterpart Anthony Davis and the Knicks fritter away the lead and lose in Overtime, dropping them momentarily to 5th in the standings.


Fast forward to last night.  And this play in the first quarter gave me deja-vu vibes.  Were we in for another "attempt to make a statement" game by Julius where he just tries to go one on one vs a very good defender all night just to prove he is "the man"?   

(https://cdn.substack.com/image/fetch/w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_lossy/https%3A%2F%2Fbucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-437e-9518-adb32be77984.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1a9f5c5f-b87c-42d7-a0a1-f41ac9c6a4d9_480x268.gif)

It's funny how he slowed and how deliberate and calculated his movements above were when he took AD (like he wanted to make a statement). -- but here he reduced his dribbles and time of possession as he just blows by lesser defenders. 

(https://cdn.substack.com/image/fetch/w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_lossy/https%3A%2F%2Fbucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-437e-9518-adb32be77984.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F37cefce0-f944-4a2c-8627-0f8d7dd2fc21_480x268.gif)

Here's some great help by Fournier.  I love his level of energy.  He makes plays.

(https://cdn.substack.com/image/fetch/w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_lossy/https%3A%2F%2Fbucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-437e-9518-adb32be77984.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F70f00474-73dc-450c-8fd0-0e5a5166f9d3_480x238.gif)

I love Julius, and his power and aggression helped us jump on the Lakers in the first, and he got his team mates involved.

When he pounds the rock a la Melo, and everyone is standing arund is when turnovers blossom.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 24, 2021, 01:02:44 PM
Sloppy last few minutes let Lakes close to 12 at the half.
I think Knix were up 20 with just over 3 mins.
You start the 3Q up 20 and it's a hard slog for the opponent.
Kemba was a mess with the ball.  And the ballhandling was poor all around (Fournier, Randle, etc), which unsurprisingly led to bad shots.

Always been a fan of A Very Bradley.
He really ignited the Lakes comeback.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 24, 2021, 01:15:17 PM
Just starting the 3Q without knowing the outcome.

Went to a dwindling market with big sales today.
Picked up an RJ Barrett jersey!
Joins my Amare uni.
And since they were cheap I also grabbed a Ja Morant, Dev Book and Siakim jersey.  The latter two a nice shade of purple.

Surprisingly they also had an RJB Duke jersey.
Other unlikely jerseys:
Fultz on PHI
Isiah Thomas Cavs jersey
&
Jimmer Fredette Shanghai Sharks
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 24, 2021, 01:25:15 PM
Cool.  Prices?

Are you anywhere near Hangzhou?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 24, 2021, 01:53:35 PM
So after I trash him, 3Q, Westbrook goes all Coby White.
Funny though, after a dynamic 3Q, Rustbrook tunes out the last half minute.

ObiT brings the ball up quickly, passes back to Randle, and for no reason, Westbrook just walks away from ObiT to vaguely double Randle 28feet out (Dwight is there).  Toppings starts calling for the ball, since he's the only one on the left side and now completely unguarded.  Huh?
Then Westbrook jacks a crummy 3 to the end the quarter.
Weird guy.

Knix ballhandling and passing rather suspect in this contest.
Fournier hot this game, but he rarely looks to pass.  Part of the offensive disconnect.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 24, 2021, 02:08:56 PM
Why don't you finish that games before commenting?

Might be met with a much better back and forth.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 24, 2021, 02:17:38 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 24, 2021, 01:15:17 PM
Just starting the 3Q without knowing the outcome.

Went to a dwindling market with big sales today.
Picked up an RJ Barrett jersey!
Joins my Amare uni.
And since they were cheap I also grabbed a Ja Morant, Dev Book and Siakim jersey.  The latter two a nice shade of purple.

Surprisingly they also had an RJB Duke jersey.
Other unlikely jerseys:
Fultz on PHI
Isiah Thomas Cavs jersey
&
Jimmer Fredette Shanghai Sharks

Do you play bball wearing these jerseys?   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 24, 2021, 03:02:07 PM
4Q opens with Melo completely forgetting that he has a man to guard.
Nice cut from ObiT.  I've always liked young players who can work the baseline.
It's a way to stay out of the vets way, space the floor and still contribute.

Not a great performance from either team.
NYK probably lose if LeBJ hadn't bloodied up Stewart.
They could have used Austin Reaves too, as Talen Horton was really off.  Looked like he was limping around some.

10-8 a pretty good record considering the Knix spotty play.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 24, 2021, 03:07:09 PM
I picked up smaller sizes intending to play in these jerseys.
My old Amare uni is of the oversized variety and consequently I rarely wear it.

Title: Chamaco Fredette
Post by: carlos123 on November 24, 2021, 03:08:14 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 24, 2021, 02:17:38 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 24, 2021, 01:15:17 PM
Just starting the 3Q without knowing the outcome.

Went to a dwindling market with big sales today.
Picked up an RJ Barrett jersey!
Joins my Amare uni.
And since they were cheap I also grabbed a Ja Morant, Dev Book and Siakim jersey.  The latter two a nice shade of purple.

Surprisingly they also had an RJB Duke jersey.
Other unlikely jerseys:
Fultz on PHI
Isiah Thomas Cavs jersey
&
Jimmer Fredette Shanghai Sharks

Do you play bball wearing these jerseys?

BoZ bought the Fredette jersey to have a Christmas present for Chamaco Cartero-Fredette.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 24, 2021, 03:18:04 PM
KZ with 30 & 7 (& 5 turnovers). 
Outscored LAC 6-1 in OT by himself. 
Sounded actually happy to postgame.
Kleber was back and filled the statline.

I had to stare at the Cavs "Thomas" jersey for quite a while before I finally surmised Isiah Thomas.

There was a nice red Olajuwon jersey I was pondering, but then lost track of it in the shop and forgot all about it until just now.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 24, 2021, 03:19:47 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 24, 2021, 01:53:35 PM

Fournier hot this game, but he rarely looks to pass.  Part of the offensive disconnect.

Fournier - when his shots are falling - is a joy to behold.   
Sign me up for 26pts on 14 shots.   
Your claim is backed by facts. 

Fourniers assisting is down this year to a mere 1.8 per contest from his recent years averages of 3+.


Some other Fournier facts:

Through 18 games, Evan Fournier has an effective field goal percentage that is almost exactly in line with his career mark (52.8 this season; 53.0 since he came into the league).

The Knicks have a 6-0 record in Fournier's 6 highest point scoring games
Title: Avery Bradley
Post by: chipstern on November 24, 2021, 03:45:45 PM
Should be a Knick.

Great defender and 3 point sniper.

Steph and Draymond were not happy when Warriors  cut him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 24, 2021, 04:16:10 PM
Bradley was a decent player for Boston in 2013-2016
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 24, 2021, 04:45:40 PM
I thought A Very was terrific in BOS, then supplanted by Marcus Smart.

Nice to see Bradley and Batum bounce back from injuries,  Both smart, heady players.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 24, 2021, 06:38:09 PM
Good  NBA night

Brooklyn-Boston
Philly-Golden State

ESPN

730 start
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 24, 2021, 09:31:19 PM
Nah, we dont want no fuckin Chris Paul.

https://sports.yahoo.com/nba/phoenix-suns-cleveland-cavaliers-2021112405/
Title: Toppin
Post by: Kam on November 26, 2021, 10:19:02 AM
Obi joins AD and Giannis as the only players putting up at least 18 points, eight boards, two blocks and two assists per 36 this season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 26, 2021, 01:49:01 PM
Good stat, Kam.

Glad we didnt run amok offering Obi all over the league.
Title: Small Ball
Post by: chipstern on November 26, 2021, 04:26:50 PM
Julius-Obi-Fournier-Burks-IQ

Julius-Obi-Burks-IQ-Rose

RJ/Burks/Fournier

Obi still has a ways to go, but he gives us a level of energy and motion and ball movement that is contagious. 

Sometimes he overthinks round the hoop, or over passes, or passes on shots....

But he is a force on the break, improving his defense, and like IQ, his threes are starting to fall and are launched without fear or compunction.  He even made a short jumper at the top of the key recently, right out of the Willis Reed playbook, let alone JR, and oh my God, if he could dial that in consistently, so that he is more of a threat than simply in the highlight reel...damn. 

Obi and IQ play with a joy and a fearlessness that is contagious.  Did I mention that their play IS CONTAGIOUS. 

And IQ, like his Kentucky homie, Maxey, with good coaching and a steadfast belief in their game, is evolving into an NBA level combo with PG chops and the belieft in their team mates. 

PS: I am not dissmissing RJ, no indeed, but I am pleased to see that Thibs is presenting him and Evan with a challenge come the fourth quarter.  The hot hand gets the gravy. 

PPS: I could easily see our puppy from Houston joining the RJ/Burks/Fournier/Grimes rotation.  He is fearless, plays D like he means it, and capable of detonating from trey.

PPPS: The whole issue of Julius doing too much.  He is NOT selfish [witness his assists numbers, approaching Jokic country for a big], and yes he does tend to pound and over dribble and force the action, but there are stretches where he carries us.  IDEALLY, in some better world than this, JR would be a second or third option to TWO OTHER CERTIFIABLE SUPERSTARS.  Thibs LEANS ON JULIUS, in case you haven't noticed, and with more opportunities to succeed, there are also more opportunites to fail.  As we evolve this season, the emergence of IQ/Obi, the evolution of RJ, and the efficiency of Burks & Fournier, while not yet in the TWO OTHER SUPERSTAR MODE, should hopefully relieve Julius of this burden, and allow him to be more effective in those areas of strength which he clearly has.  A LITTLE RESPECT FOR JR, people. 

PPPPS: Nerlens/Mitchell, Kemba/Derrick

PPPPPS: Big test for Thibs tonight. 
Title: Phoenix
Post by: chipstern on November 26, 2021, 07:51:15 PM
Look GREAT

Tremendous pace and tempo and spacing on offense. 

Relenetless tenacity and multiple looks on D.
Title: Re: Small Ball
Post by: Kam on November 26, 2021, 10:42:13 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 26, 2021, 04:26:50 PM

PPPS: The whole issue of Julius doing too much.  He is NOT selfish [witness his assists numbers, approaching Jokic country for a big], and yes he does tend to pound and over dribble and force the action, but there are stretches where he carries us.  IDEALLY, in some better world than this, JR would be a second or third option to TWO OTHER CERTIFIABLE SUPERSTARS.  Thibs LEANS ON JULIUS, in case you haven't noticed, and with more opportunities to succeed, there are also more opportunites to fail.  As we evolve this season, the emergence of IQ/Obi, the evolution of RJ, and the efficiency of Burks & Fournier, while not yet in the TWO OTHER SUPERSTAR MODE, should hopefully relieve Julius of this burden, and allow him to be more effective in those areas of strength which he clearly has.  A LITTLE RESPECT FOR JR, people. 


Julius isn't the problem at all.  There's just very little chemistry in the starting lineup and how to change that will remain elusive for a while.  Maybe we were better with a defensive but limited PG and a steady 3andD guy who can't create over the new additions.   At least until something changes if we just keep running back the same sets we ran last year the team is going to struggle.   The whole is not greater than the sum of the parts right now.   Does the team need 20 more games to figure things out?  Possibly.

But i think the best version of this team has Kemba running an offensive orchestra with weapons everywhere.   As long as the team relies on the tried and true of Orange Julius and Blue there is a definite ceiling on the team.   Unless Kemba and Evan transform into Steph and Klay 2.0.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 27, 2021, 03:08:40 AM
Fournier remains an enigma. Starts off lights out.  Then goes quiet.  Knix down 12 with just over 4' left in the half.  EvFo tries a little runner that front rims, then trots back next to Bridges who sprints away and catches a long pass for a transition layup.  Just seems Fournier tunes in and out.  His D rather spotty in this one.

Dev Book a terrific scorer.  Doesn't need much room.  Can score from anywhere.   Crafty.
Sort of sad to see Knox growing roots while Bridges is such a two-way delight.  Love guys like Bridges, TyH, Brogdon who just understand how to play.  Grimes getting minutes with Rose out.  Knox might as well be in Westchester.

Knix had a nice 1Q.
One Kemba-Mitch PnR sucked in the PHX D for an easy kick out for a Fournier 3.  Just love the options there.  Kemba can go to the rim or lob to Mitch or kick out.  I would have run that more.

I'm just up to halftime.
PHX rode a nice 2Q where the Knick offense got sticky with more iso, less movement and limited o-board ops.  I miss Taj.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 27, 2021, 10:24:01 AM
Knox-Bridges angst always appreciated

Maybe add some Frank vs Monk for good measure.

I thought we were fine last night.  Suns are a juggernaut.  Beat us every quarter - by 6, by 7, by 4 and by 4.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 27, 2021, 10:24:44 AM
Rose was wearing a fez?  Wonder what that was about.
I got my fez in Marrakesh.

Knick transition D is poorly balanced and unaware.
How do you fail to identify and guard Booker on a fast break?

3Q PHX just look like the more talented and coherent team.
ObiT is still energy with mixed results.

Nice to hear Wally get to do a game.
He made some gaffes as when he said "every time he shoots it he touches it."
And here and there he's more in commentator than announcer mode.
But overall he does a solid job.  Just needs more reps.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 27, 2021, 10:06:04 PM
Heh

Didnt know we were playing tonight

How valuable is Burks?

I think Bo had him as a sketchy signing.
Title: Mr. heh (and lol) strikes YET again #43,836
Post by: carlos123 on November 27, 2021, 11:20:44 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on November 27, 2021, 10:06:04 PM
Heh

Didnt know we were playing tonight

How valuable is Burks?

I think Bo had him as a sketchy signing.

Chamaco, BoZ is your best, AND ONLY, friend in here.

I'm only telling you this because you're so STOOPID you may actually not know it.

You're welcome.

PS. It may do you some good to be sent to spend some time in a re-education camp in Xingiang, just saying...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 28, 2021, 03:32:26 AM
That was a big win.

Those were the nine who need to play. Add Rose if you want to make it ten.

It may be time to waive Seldon and get Sims locked in long term.

Mitch, Sims, and Taj are our best centers.

Rose, Burks, and IQ are our best lead guards.

RJ, Julius, Evan, and Obi are a nice heart to our rotation.

Grimes has to be our best perimeter defender.

Glad McBride is at least getting GLeage run.

Ready to let go of Kemba and Noel as physically weak one way players do not seem to fit what we want to do or make life easier for the guys they share the floor with, at least compared to our other options at their positions. If we keep them, they should be highly situational.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 28, 2021, 10:50:15 AM
If that game don't make you want to shout...you lost your shouter. Grimes-to-Obi oop highlight of the year to date. Good stuff, forces Thibs to confront all the things he clearly doesn't want to do...but has to
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 28, 2021, 12:14:02 PM
Knicks will go back to their regular lineup.

Good teams can win at times without some cogs -a s we showed vs Hawks.

20 spot for EF.  Nice to see.  Keep getting to your spots, shooter man.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 28, 2021, 12:20:03 PM
It may be time to waive Seldon and get Sims locked in long term.


Have liked Selden from the summer

Picture if Fournier and Quickley were bot injured....

Might come in handy

14-4-3 and 1 steal per 36 over career  42/34/72 shooter
Title: Food For Thought
Post by: chipstern on November 28, 2021, 03:05:02 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on November 28, 2021, 10:50:15 AM
If that game don't make you want to shout...you lost your shouter. Grimes-to-Obi oop highlight of the year to date. Good stuff, forces Thibs to confront all the things he clearly doesn't want to do...but has to

Good stuff, Dawg.

Grimes is a feral dawg on D, and once he gets into his offensive comfort zone, could be the second coming of John Starks.  The way he got after the Hawks was really something, and translated to our entire team's defense. 

Funny we haven't gotten one of BoD's in-depth breakdowns of Burks, explaining how skanky his play is. 

The Burks/Quickley dynamic was very interesting.  In terms of getting us into an offensive flow, and not giving up too much on D. 

Alan Hahn is petitioning for IQ to get his graduation papers as our starting PG. 

Don't really see that happenning quite yet, but he has earned his team's trust.  And and while his shooting was not in the Twilight Zone, he hit some key shots, he had 7 assists, some quite lovely, and his defensive tenacity was stellar. 

IQ, Grimes, Sims, RJ, Randle, Obi and Burks all got after it on D.  Fournier still a work in progress [was a -10] but he clearly has the stones to withstand the glaring search light of the NY fans and media, and he was effective both on long range shots and creating. 

The key difference I noted in the absence of Kemba, was a lot less ISO ball, with cats stadng around in their spots, and more offensive movement. 

And better D.  The energy of our hybrid second unit, with Puppies on Parade, was really worthy of a SHOUT, as the usually cynical Dawg has duly noted.  It was contagious. 

Which brings us to the current climate of dumping on Julius, including last night, where while his individual game offensively was a struggle, he faciliated a lot more easy baskets for his team mates than his 4 assists would suggest, contributing to better motion and ball movement, a force on the boards, and really solid, tenacious...SMART defense.  On O, I really liked that hard nosed drive to the hoop in the final seconds of the third. 

In the feeding frenzy to demonize JR, has anyone notices how consciously he has been trying to evolve his game, individually, and how it translates to making him less ball dominant, less obsessed with Thibs take the three mindset, and making his mates better.  We have taken notice of a solid offensive performance from Fournier and an inspired one by Burks, but while RJ was shajy from the FT line last night, he was a solid 6-11 from the field, with 7 boards and a team leading +18. 

In short, Julius does NOT NEED to tally 35-10 to impact the team.  He is CLEARLY struggling to find his stroke and rhythm offensively, but I watched the game twice last night, and he was manning up. 

I don't agree with Facil's suggestion to cut Selden.  Pointless.  Clearly he does a lot in practice that we do not see. 

But the conundrum of Kemba and Rose is more challenging...

Thibs is not going to want to lose them...and one must wonder how much of the starting unit's static offense, and lack of motion and ball movement is on Kemba.  Let alone our defensive vulnerability with Kemba.  Or how much is on Thibs. 

Again, we have much work to do, and it is challenging to find coherence and rhythm...and MINUTES for everyone. 

But talk about a good problem to have. 

Our PUPPIES were inspiring and made the most of their minutes. 

Sims clearly earned a significant piece of Thibs' trust with a +14 in 21 minutes, including six boards a steal and two blocks.  And as someone pointed out, energy, Energy, ENERGY, as he seemed involved in every scrum, just battling.  Clearly he can push Mitchell, Nerlens and Taj. 

Obi 13-2-2 [+7, hit all of his free throws]

IQ a +9 with 7 dimes and 3 boards, and he just eviscerated Sweet Lou and Trae Bien in the 4th quarter with RELENTLESS D. 

And Grimes was scary good on D, an impactful +8 in 15 minutes. 

Okay, the moment has passed.  Enjoy it. 

Be interesting to see how we respond to a Barclays Center crowd, and an angry Nyets team coming off of a tough loss to Phoenix. 

Be more interesting to see how Thibs deploys his new options or if he stubbornly, reflexively just goes back to his veteran heavy mix and dependence on JR as progenitor of the offense. 

THIBS SAID HE WANTED ENERGY AND INTENSITY. 

Well, be careful what you wish for.  Jericho, Obi, IQ and Grimes gave it to him in triplicate, and Burks gave us food for thought vis a vis our starting five, and how our on court deployment might change vis a vis the intensity Thibs claims to long for. 

Title: Obi Kanoobee
Post by: chipstern on November 28, 2021, 03:17:40 PM
A learning curve. 

Against Phoenix, there was a play where someone hit Obi under the hoop with a court-length pass, and Obi reflexively tried to complete the play in one fell swoop, defaulting to his hops and incredible athleticism, and came away with nothing. 

I can recall, saying to no one in particular [I was alone], that he should have come down, planted himself under the hoop, made some jukes, and tried for a less sexy layup and a possible +1.

Well, last night he did precisely that, converted the layup and the FT on the +1. 

I was very heartened to see that on some level, there was a positive takeaway from a missed opportunity, and that Obi made the most of such an opportunity when it next presented itself in the very next game. 

We need more of that.  MORE EASY BASKETS, more opportunities off of motion and movement. 

PS: Julius with a lovely pocket pass out of a double team to a cutting Sims in the paint for an emphatic flush.

PPS: Let's see how we respond to the Nyets, and buiuld off of positives in this win over the dreaded Hawks.  PARTICULARY the D in the final quarter to shut down Trae. 
Title: 11-9
Post by: chipstern on November 28, 2021, 03:32:00 PM
Roughly one quarter of the season in our rear view mirror, and the Knicks are the 7th seed in a tough Eastern Conference. 

Nets [14-6]
Heat [13-7]
Wizards [13-7]
Bulls [13-8]
Bucks [12-8]
Hornets [13-9]
Knicks [11-9]
Hawks [11-10]
Cavs [10-10]
Celtics [10-10]
Sixers [10-10]

Where we last year after 20 games?  Anyone? 

We were 9-11. 

And 20-21 after 40 games. 
Title: An Interesting Notion
Post by: chipstern on November 28, 2021, 04:04:56 PM
Here's a thought. 

What about putting RJ on the second unit where there currently is no primary scorer and he won't need to defer to Randle, Fournier and Walker.

Walker
Fournier
Burks
Randle
Nerlens/Mitchell

Rose/IQ
IQ/Grimes
RJ/Grimes
Obi/Knox
Sims/Mitchell/Nerlens

Perhaps he would be more comfortable playing with the 2nd unit because of their faster pace

With Burks gets inserted as a starter, perhaps we'd get more speed and floor spacing, with a less ISO-heavy set for Randle, Fournier and Walker.  A dependable shooter capable of giving us another distributor, so that Walker could play more off the ball.

We have to transcend the whole notion of ISO sets and ball dominant sets on offense.  Walker and Randle are certainly capable of sharing, and with another midrange long distance option such as Burks in the starting five, well....

Look at all of the easy baskets Devin Booker gets in the Suns offense.  I recognize the reality of the three ball, but surely we learned something about how effective an offense can be with a classic midrange threat such as a DeRozan or a Booker, and how that threat can create open threes in rhythm.  God knows I would like to see Kemba less married to that long trey, and getting more looks in the near field, in motion, in rhythm. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 28, 2021, 04:32:38 PM
Meanwhile, Samanic stats over 4 games


https://stats.gleague.nba.com/player/1629677/

57/39/92
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 28, 2021, 04:34:59 PM
Kemba shooting .413 from deep

I think MORE SHOTS in general would be the key
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 28, 2021, 05:29:21 PM
Not until he can defend as well as somebody else in the rotation. I am not sure he should keep the shots he is getting until he can defend at least as well as somebody else on the roster.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 28, 2021, 05:35:11 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 28, 2021, 04:32:38 PM
Meanwhile, Samanic stats over 4 games


https://stats.gleague.nba.com/player/1629677/

57/39/92

There is the bones of a player there. He does need to work on flipping his assist to turnover ratio.
Title: is Kemba the problem?
Post by: Kam on November 28, 2021, 06:28:49 PM
is Kemba the problem?  What if there was no Kemba on this team?

Julius and Evan already seem to have chemistry together whereas we have seen mere strands of cohesion between Julius and Kemba.

What if we kept Rose as the backup,  and started either Burks or IQ, opening up a rotation spot for our #1 pick Grimes to see consistent playing time?

I do NOT want to pull the plug on Kemba.  BUT i do think giving him more games off for rest "wink wink" and looking at more of the above alignment couldn't hurt.

Then if Kemba really is seen as a bad fit or whatever, see what you can get for him in trade, or keep him as an injury replacement guy when you want to give DRose some time to rest.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 28, 2021, 06:37:47 PM
Pretty well set that Kemba gets to rest if we play back to back

Excepting if he talks himself into that night's lineup.

No.  It's not wise to continue talk of not having Walker.  Walker/Rose was the alternative to adding a lead guard.  And we are 11 and 9 with Walker shooting well and not complaining about minutes

Ideally we would have added Paul, Ball or other.  But we did fine given that NO.  Added offense that fits our culture was the main offseason thrust.

Good also to hear some leadership from Walker after the Suns drubbing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 28, 2021, 07:39:23 PM
We are better off looking at this small number two year deal the same way Bullock was handled on his two year deal with us, the first year basically written off in terms of floor time in favor of a rehab retooling stint followed by potentially a nice rebound in year two.

He needs something to make up for his loss of quickness and bounce beyond what he is showing. He needs to get stronger or sharper or both, basically completing the transition D Rose has made over three years and three teams of fairly crap ball before hitting his new stride with us in a more constrained but no less vital role.

As is, Kemba helping or closing out can be ignored. Anyone 6 foot 4 and up can bully him and carry him to the paint forcing help. That is exhausting to play with.

Three 6 foot 6 guys on the perimeter, even though none are great defenders or real PGs, look better for us than two of those wing sized guys playing with Kemba.

Rose and Quickley are better defenders who play with better pace.

What we ask our PGs to do is hard. I am all good with giving Kemba time to figure it out based on where his body is now vs. the league. Based on our level of investment, his upside, and our other options, I do not have much patience for letting him figure it out on the floor in the games that count.

If we are going to keep him rolling, he would be better in a role similar to what George Hill is playing for the Bucks this season rather than starting.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 28, 2021, 08:54:45 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 28, 2021, 07:39:23 PM
We are better off looking at this small number two year deal the same way Bullock was handled on his two year deal with us, the first year basically written off in terms of floor time in favor of a rehab retooling stint followed by potentially a nice rebound in year two.

He needs something to make up for his loss of quickness and bounce beyond what he is showing. He needs to get stronger or sharper or both, basically completing the transition D Rose has made over three years and three teams of fairly crap ball before hitting his new stride with us in a more constrained but no less vital role.

As is, Kemba helping or closing out can be ignored. Anyone 6 foot 4 and up can bully him and carry him to the paint forcing help. That is exhausting to play with.

Three 6 foot 6 guys on the perimeter, even though none are great defenders or real PGs, look better for us than two of those wing sized guys playing with Kemba.

Rose and Quickley are better defenders who play with better pace.

What we ask our PGs to do is hard. I am all good with giving Kemba time to figure it out based on where his body is now vs. the league. Based on our level of investment, his upside, and our other options, I do not have much patience for letting him figure it out on the floor in the games that count.

If we are going to keep him rolling, he would be better in a role similar to what George Hill is playing for the Bucks this season rather than starting.

George Hill is averaging 7.4/3.6/2.6, .358 from trey with a .933,  FT% in 27 minutes a night. 

Kemba Walker is averaging 11.7/2.6/3.7, .413% from trey with .800 FT in 24.5 minutes per night. 

I don't think Thibs is ready to ditch Kemba, though there might be an Elfrid-like existence in his future. 

Then Again? 

What about...?

Walker-Fournier-Burks-Randle-Noel/Robinson

Rose-Quickley-RJ-Obi-Sims/Gibson

Somehow work Grimes into both rotations. 

How the Knicks start?

How they close is the question...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 28, 2021, 10:37:16 PM
Thumbs up, Chip

Is Barrett the type of "glue" guy that we'd sorely miss if we tried to use him to upgrade?  I am not sure.  Thus at this juncture I am OK having him on the block.
Title: HURRAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: carlos123 on November 28, 2021, 10:56:09 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on November 28, 2021, 10:37:16 PM
Thumbs up, Chip

Is Barrett the type of "glue" guy that we'd sorely miss if we tried to use him to upgrade?  I am not sure.  Thus at this juncture I am OK having him on the block.

Hey Chip, Chamaco approves of you.

Ain't you happy?

HURRAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 28, 2021, 11:38:58 PM
Sims looked terrific.
Quix really pushed the pace.
Knix a bit lucky that Bogdanx2 & Reddish crumpled early, and Hunter was out.
Gallo looked terrible.  TLC was fouling everyone near him, looked like he hadn't played in a long time.

Burks played almost 40 mins.  Had that early 3Q streak where he was flamethrowing.  Really the first 3 was a questionable shot, a tough contested 3.
I don't see how Burks replacing RJB helps us be less iso-heavy. And excises our best perimeter defender. 

Fournier has been a 1st half guy; Burks can be the 2nd half man.  Or start Burks over Fournier.  Burks has been playing with high energy and our starters could use that.  The more radical idea is to start Quix to get energy and better defense than Kemba provides.  Quix - Rjb - Fournier - Randle - Mitch
Quix - Burks - Rjb - Randle - Mitch

If it can work, would help NYK a lot.

Otherwise, two quiet games from Julius.  Often wasnt looking to score.  Looks distracted.  Oddly with his O off, he was playing pretty good D on the perimeter and inside.  Contributing.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 28, 2021, 11:48:26 PM
Yep

JR will rebound

9 15+ game scores for Randle in this "off" season

5 of 20+
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 28, 2021, 11:52:13 PM
Hill has had his minutes inflated by the absences of Holiday and Middleton. He is more normally in the 15 -20 range. Kemba as a savvy backup with more O and less D than Hill, but the same general net effectiveness seems like a achievable goal for him this season, with rest days. A couple of 10 point quarters down the stretch and hopefully in the post season are more likely if we do not burn out his legs before the break or wear out the team in trying to compensate for too much Kemba.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 29, 2021, 06:51:42 AM
Randle passes to Fournier a lot of the time.  Knix seem to try to get Fournier off early every game.  Quix & ObiT have good chemistry.  As do Rose & Taj.
We need to get more lobs to Mitch on the PnR.  Trae/Capela were killing us that way.  Mitch can do damage.  Is Quix are best PnR lobber?

I agree that RJB is getting a bit lost in the mix these days.
He tends to have quiet 1st halfs, but lately hasn't been able to get going for extended periods in the 2nd half.  Have trouble seeing how a move to the bench brings out more, especially since our bench has been killing it.  Interesting how good our bench has been all year. You'd think other teams would have scouted it out and know who to put in to counter Quix and Obit and Rose.  Fun to see Sims and Grimes get in the mix.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 29, 2021, 08:27:15 AM
I think its a no brainer that Barrett would get more offensive looks on second unit, away from Randle Fournier Walker
Title: Trivia time
Post by: Kam on November 29, 2021, 09:17:55 AM
Over the last 20 seasons Carmelo Anthony leads all Knicks in 35 point / 10 rebound games.  He did it 16 times.

No other player has managed more that feat more than 4 times.    Two have done it 4 times.    Julius Randle has only done it 3 times.

Name the 2 Knicks players who have logged 4 games (as a Knick) of 35 and 10 in the last 20 years.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 29, 2021, 09:35:34 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 28, 2021, 07:39:23 PM

As is, Kemba helping or closing out can be ignored. Anyone 6 foot 4 and up can bully him and carry him to the paint forcing help. That is exhausting to play with.

Three 6 foot 6 guys on the perimeter, even though none are great defenders or real PGs, look better for us than two of those wing sized guys playing with Kemba.


The most glaring number of this Knicks season is Walker's on/off differential. According to Cleaning the Glass, New York has a positive 14.0 net rating whenever Walker sits, with an offense that would be virtually tied with the top-ranked Jazz and a defense nearly as stingy as the league-leading Warriors.

And Walker, to be clear, has not been great. For as much as he fights (his 8 drawn charges are 6th in the league), there are times he can't overcome his size on defense.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 29, 2021, 11:24:36 AM
He has not really rebuilt his legs yet to where they need to be after the falloff in Boston and he is not as precise as he needs to be due to how little he can do to recover if he is off. Rose has lost a lot of speed but he eventually got a bit stronger and more precise and compensated for less power with more efficiency. Kemba can as well. As he is now, his best hope for the short term is to make himself an asset on the second unit instead of a drag on the starting five.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 29, 2021, 11:36:15 AM
http://theknickswall.com/immanuel-quickley-obi-toppin-knicks-need-be-more-involved-variety-lineups/ (http://theknickswall.com/immanuel-quickley-obi-toppin-knicks-need-be-more-involved-variety-lineups/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 29, 2021, 12:14:31 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 29, 2021, 11:36:15 AM
http://theknickswall.com/immanuel-quickley-obi-toppin-knicks-need-be-more-involved-variety-lineups/ (http://theknickswall.com/immanuel-quickley-obi-toppin-knicks-need-be-more-involved-variety-lineups/)

In your lifetime has five Knicks, all between the ages of 21 and 23, all drafted by the club, ever shared the floor together?

Vs, the Hawks in the 2nd period Thibs put forth the All-Rookie Contract lineup for 7 minutes and the results were positive.   

In that stretch Sims, Toppin, RJ, Quickley, Grimes. outscored the Hawks 14-7.  Shot 6 for 10. grabbed 8 rebounds.  4 assists.  3 turnovers. 1 steal.  1 block.
Title: Burks to start
Post by: Kam on November 29, 2021, 01:35:59 PM
per Thibs

Kemba out!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 29, 2021, 01:38:50 PM
The Knicks are making a drastic change at point guard.

Head coach Tom Thibodeau announced Monday that Alec Burks will become the starter after a 23-point performance in his first start of the season during Saturdays win in Atlanta. Bronx product Kemba Walker will be out of the rotation entirely, beginning with Tuesdays game against the Nets in Brooklyn.

It is a tough decision to make. But you always have to do what you think is best for the team Thibodeau said.

I have got great respect for who Kemba is as a person, number one, and all that he has accomplished in this league, but I do what I think is best for the team.

I just do not like the way we have been trending, the inconsistency of our team and we are gonna try to make a change Thibodeau said.

I want to get bigger.  I want our defense to be more intact. So basically that was it I got to do something different.
Title: Puppies [Relationships & The REAL Trader Vics]
Post by: chipstern on November 29, 2021, 01:47:03 PM
LEON ROSE & WORLD WIDE WES: Godfathers

BROCK ALLER: Vice President & Strategic Planning

SCOTT PERRY: General Manager

WALT PERRIN & FRANK ZANIN: Assistant General Managers

KEVIN WILSON & ADAM TATLOVICH: European Scouts

Our sundry roster moves, and deals for assets and draft picks appear to be the product of a collective council of elders chaired by Leon Rose, and informed by a wide range of thinkers behind the scene, including conceilerge Aller and capos Perry, Perrin & Zanin [Aller a master capologist Rose gobbled up from the Cavs, Perrin, a very informed college scout and talent evaluator, who was pivotal in the Jazz gobbling up Hayward & Gobert and moving up in the draft with Denver to target Mitchell, while Zanin was a top scout for OKC's Trader ].   

* Worth remembering that the trade in which we divested ourselves of Rivers and Brazdeikis seemingly to only create cap space and cut the warm bodies we received, got us the seemingly useless late second rounder from Philly [#58] with which we secured the Balls of Jericho Sims. 

* Worth remembering that when Scott Perry traded Morris to the Clippers, we got back Moe Harkless, but more significantly, the late first rounder which after a series of up and down moves, became World Wide Wes fave Immanuel Quickley, who had reportedly been on the Knicks radar for two years.  However, we also got the Clippers second rounder [#32, obtained from Detroit in the Blake Griffin deal], which, presumably due to a working relationship with the Thunder, vis a vis former Thunder scout Frank Zainin, was shipped to the Thunder for #34 and #36 for Euro-Stash Combo Guard Rokas Jokubaitis [currently tearing things up in Spain] and Thibs love child, PG Miles McBride.

* Worth remembering that the working relationship Zanin had with Sam Presti may have played a roll in the intelligence which got us a post-buyout deal on Kemba. 

* Worth remembering that the seemingly unintelligble moves with our #19 and #21 picks with the Hornets and Clippers, flipped our #1 with Charlotte for their #1 pick in 2022 [which conveys in the event they finish better than #18 in the draft order, which right now, looks very likely for this much improved team] while the Clippers #1 flip deal got us [ho-hum] yet another future #2 pick, and the #25 pick with which the Knicks both saved cap money in 2021, and selected Devil Dawg defender and sniper Quentin Grimes. 

* Worth remembering that someone amongst Aller, Perry, Perrin & Zanin, thought enough of failed former Spurs 2019 #1 pick, 6'10" stretch forward Luka Samanic to a two way deal when the was waived by San Antonio.  Coach Pops had some nice things to say about him on his way out the door, and while it is only G League, and there are lingering questions about his motor and motivation, he has been tearing it up for Westchester. 

* Worth remembering that we passed on the likes of Haliburton and Avdija to select Obi Toppin in 2020, a move which seemed, oh, odd...redundant at the time, particularly with the emergence of Julius Randle, and for the past year and change, Obi has been part of every lame ass, Brad Dressler/Stephen A. Smith phantasy trade out of town...but who with every minute of floor time is looking like a fucking prescient move on the part of Leon Rose, who was purportedly a big, big Obi booster in his first draft...

So, to extend on what Kam already noted, Quickley, Toppin, Grimes, Sims , McBride, Joubaitis, Samanic .

That's seven, count 'em, SEVEN legitimate prospects, four of whom [IQ, Obi, Quentin, Jericho] are already paying legit dividends, one of whom is waiting for his shot [McBride], and two of whom [the Lithuanian Jokubaitis & the Croatian Samanic] are simmering in the slow cooker crock pot of top tier Euro power FC Barcelona and the Westchester Knicks. 

Eight if we count the earthly remains of Kevin Knox, whom may yet to be heard from again as next man up. NINE if we count the [cough] 21 year old RJ Barrett, for fuck's sake. 

Of course, the Knicks struggling as they have....HAHA....ONLY 11-9 at the quarter pole, the douche nozzles in the media are quick to assign blame to LEON ROSE, vis a vis the struggles of Kemba and Evan.  And of course, fair weather fans demonizing Randle's struggles. 

Well...

FUCK Y'ALL 

Kemba, Burks, Noel, Gibson, Rose guaranteed on reasonable contracts for two years, with a team option on year three.  Julius re-signed for John Collins money on a very team friendly deal.  Fournier getting Hardaway money for three with a fourth year option. 

We have a cornucopia of #2 picks. 

We have two #1 picks in 2022. 

We have two #1 picks in 2023. 

We have a top tier coaching staff, and assets up the wazoo, in the [HIGHLY UNLIKELY] event that the likes of Bradley Beal, Zach Lavine, Damian Lillard or...ZION WILLIAMSON are in play as trade options. 

The Suns debacle was a reality check. 

However, so was the Hawks game, and yes, they were missing Hunter, BB and Reddish, but we were missing Kemba AND, Nerlens and Taj AND Rose, and the Hawks still had Trae and Collins and Capella and Sweet Lou, and we shut them down in the fourth. 

So the second quarter cycle, the next 20 games, promise to also be up and down, up and down, but the fact that we are arguing about our playoff status on November 29, and not already looking ahead to the Draft Lottery?

Well...

To be a Knicks Fan Is To SUFFER, motherfuckers, but Godfather Leon has given us something tangible to root for, solid [if struggling] vets, and after decades of eating our young and giving away draft picks, a legit stash of draft assets, and a host of actual factual puppies, growing up before our eyes, play by play, game by game [NOTE: How about that pass by Grimes to Obi for the Atomic Pterodactyl JAMMA SLAMMA]. 

So Kemba and Evan, Julius and RJ are struggling?

GROW THE FUCK UP KNICKS FANS.  We are in the hunt, and deep in legit puppies and draft assets.  All of this will work itself out in a fiercely competitive Eastern Conference where everyone got better, even the bottom feeders. 

Leon & Thibs' Grades are A- to me.  Certain issues to be resolved, but not too shabby. Hell, even the Luka Vildoza experiment cost us naught but money, and not even eating in to our 2021-22 budget. 

HAVING SAID THAT...BROOKLYN ON TUESDAY. 

WOW!
Title: DAMN...Burks For Kemba
Post by: chipstern on November 29, 2021, 01:58:07 PM
WOW. 

Presumably if Noels ever can stay healthy for two consecutive games...

Noel-Randle-RJ-Fournier-Burks

Robinson-Toppin-Grimes-IQ-Rose

Sims-Gibson

McBride

Knox-Kemba-Selden

Presumably, Kemba takes it like a man, practices, mentors our PG pups IQ and McBride, rebuilds his stamina and stays ready. 

DAMN.

Title: Michael Porter
Post by: chipstern on November 29, 2021, 02:50:19 PM
Out for the season with back surgery. 

Damn.  And his max extension kicks in next year.  So Nuggets not fucking around. 
Title: Rotation
Post by: chipstern on November 29, 2021, 03:12:48 PM
Tough call by Thibs.

Presumably Noel and Taj still healing. 

Mitchell at 7'1" and Julius at 6'9" with two wings/facilitator in RJ, Fournier and Burks, all in that 6'6"/6'7" zone. 

SIZE/SHOOTING

While Noel is healing...please note the ages of our second unit. 

Sims [23]-Toppin [23]-Grimes [21]-Quickley [22]-Rose [33]

Sims a solid 6'9"/6'10" with insane hops and motor and Obi a lithe, quick, beefy 6'9" [Bam, Harrell] while Grimes is 6'5" and IQ 6'3"and Rose 6'2" 

McBride [21, and 6'2"] is going to get his shot soon, assuming Rose requires some recovery time.  Did you guys see that coverage and steal against the Hawks and his layup finish.   

SPEED/TENACITY

Feel bad for Kemba, but we were getting crushed on defense, and were out of sync offensively. 

Meanwhile, Thibs doesn't play youth? 

I've been waiting most of my adult life to see the Knicks KEEP THEIR DRAFT PICKS, to nurture, develop and ACTUALLY PLAY their puppies. 

And look at the tenacious spirit and intensity they bring to the court. 

PS: A lot of fans were down on our brain trust for picking Grimes, as Cam Thomas dropped to the Nets, and he had a terrific summer league, just a lights out shooter.  Well, hope they get to say hello on Tuesday.  I still cannot get over Quentin's relentless defensive tenacity [that and a stellar performance from Burks and Walker's spot on the nench spelled Kemba's fate.  Once those threes start falling, you're going to hear chants of Quen-Tin as well as O-Bi. 
Title: Jericho Sims
Post by: chipstern on November 29, 2021, 03:24:06 PM
Majored in African & African Diaspora Studies with a minor in Anthropology at Texas.

Father Charles played basketball at the University of Minnesota.

Has five older brothers, two of whom played Division I college basketball and one of whom played D-1 college football.

44.5-inch max vertical jump at the 2021 NBA Draft Combine tied for the third-highest jump in event history.
Title: Bucks
Post by: chipstern on November 29, 2021, 03:35:20 PM
File this under YIKES. 

The Bucks just inked DeMarcus Cousins to a one year, non guaranteed deal. 

Whoosh.  I could see that being a really good fit. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 29, 2021, 04:17:21 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 28, 2021, 12:14:02 PM
Knicks will go back to their regular lineup.

Well this didn't age well, lol......

Not crowing, the problems in our first five weren't all Kemba, and still being fixed, But hard to argue with this-

Knicks have the best defense in the league when he's on the bench ...99.0 DRtg...and are dead last ...116.3 DRtg...when he's on the floor
Title: bonus bonus
Post by: lesterluv on November 29, 2021, 04:21:26 PM
24.5 more minutes a game to see the players we really need to see
Title: Obi & Quentin
Post by: chipstern on November 29, 2021, 04:28:44 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on November 29, 2021, 04:21:26 PM
24.5 more minutes a game to see the players we really need to see

(https://scontent-lga3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/260988998_10224714924158481_3256805320363018275_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=dbeb18&_nc_ohc=t4wNhqBXNiEAX_teN40&tn=xl05267qLY6AVrGm&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-2.xx&oh=5ada6a04c71a673f499b9a77e511a89c&oe=61AB23E9)

I love Kemba, but ball don't lie. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 29, 2021, 04:56:21 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 29, 2021, 01:47:03 PM
So Kemba and Evan, Julius and RJ are struggling?
GROW THE FUCK UP KNICKS FANS. 

Okay, so maybe it is a little concerning when 4 of your starters are struggling (and the 5th is hobbled).

It was time to move Kemba out of the starting 5.  And apparently Thibs doesn't want to Kemba to muck up the stellar bench play.  A tough call.
I was hinting at dropping Kemba entirely, for a while, in my previous post.
(Meanwhile, Elf didn't even get off the Suns bench when they blew out the Knix).

I'd rather see Rose start, with Quix the 2nd unit PG.
But Rose doesn't seem ready yet. 
Fournier or Burks as the SG.
Burks more intriguing and energetic, but Fournier gets off to hot starts before disappearing.  So either way.

I'm not a fan of a no-PG alignment, though BKY does the same, so it shouldn't be an issue in G1.

Anyway, credit to Thibs for shaking up the dysfunctional starting 5.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 29, 2021, 05:16:51 PM
At some point you are going to want to plug Kemba in. At that point you are going to want him fresher, healthier, and more familiar with the team. We were treading water with him and our kids show they play just as well or better.

Alec and Grimy to the stage. Kemba to the lab. He may come back and somehow jumpstart the season.

Knicks fan TV on the topic

http://youtu.be/9YW7sCN_rFs (http://youtu.be/9YW7sCN_rFs)

Also, I like Noel least among our bigs, by himself or in tandem with anybody else.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 29, 2021, 05:20:14 PM
So Porter lasted all of two months after signing his max deal?
Negligent to give a pre-injured guy, who was just starting to bloom but not yet a star, a 5 year max deal.

I don't get giving 5 year max deals to guys who haven't proven themselves yet.
I'm a John Collins fan, nice player, valuable, but still inconsistent and still working on his D.  Will he ever be worth a max contract (circa $25M and up)?  Not likely.

I'd only give 5 year maxes to players such as Booker, Luka, Morant who have proven themselves as elite.  Otherwise 4 year max is the top market rate.
I thought the Suns were wise not to drop a 5 max on Ayton.  Nice player, still developing, still needs refinement.  4 year max would be an overpay and make me nervous.  Any team out there willing to drop a 4 year max on Ayton?  Unlikely.

I wouldn't want to max any player who hasn't proven elite and/or consistent.
And I'd reserve the 5th year max for franchise cornerstone players.

A 5 max for Porter was a ridiculous risk.
He's still a clueless defender, and far from an all-around player.
With the ghost of multiple back surgeries in his past.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on November 29, 2021, 05:22:26 PM
Nawlins has been hobbled all season.
Was an impressive warrior all last year.
His 4Q blocks were a regular catalyst to Knick wins.

Both Father Noel and Mitch Riderson have been gimpy this year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 29, 2021, 05:34:09 PM
So with the shakeup,

Starters

Mitch Randle Barrett Fornier Burks

Bench

Sims Obi Grimes Quickley

Mending

Taj Rose Noel

Developing in the minors

Deuce Luca

Mothballed

Kemba

Super situational

Knox and Seldon
Title: Money Talks
Post by: chipstern on November 29, 2021, 05:49:48 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 29, 2021, 05:20:14 PM
So Porter lasted all of two months after signing his max deal?
Negligent to give a pre-injured guy, who was just starting to bloom but not yet a star, a 5 year max deal.

I don't get giving 5 year max deals to guys who haven't proven themselves yet.
I'm a John Collins fan, nice player, valuable, but still inconsistent and still working on his D.  Will he ever be worth a max contract (circa $25M and up)?  Not likely.

I'd only give 5 year maxes to players such as Booker, Luka, Morant who have proven themselves as elite.  Otherwise 4 year max is the top market rate.
I thought the Suns were wise not to drop a 5 max on Ayton.  Nice player, still developing, still needs refinement.  4 year max would be an overpay and make me nervous.  Any team out there willing to drop a 4 year max on Ayton?  Unlikely.

I wouldn't want to max any player who hasn't proven elite and/or consistent.
And I'd reserve the 5th year max for franchise cornerstone players.

A 5 max for Porter was a ridiculous risk.
He's still a clueless defender, and far from an all-around player.
With the ghost of multiple back surgeries in his past.

Julius gave the Knicks a hometown discount. 

Could have held out for 5 years/$200 Million.  Think he was not only making a tangible gesture to the Knicks, but being rational about money. A bird in the hand worth two in the bush. 

2021-2026: 21.7/26.1/28.2/30.3/32.4

Not too shabby.  Locked in for the Knicks.  Security for Julius' family. 

Collins was pushing for a max contact. 

Hawks resisted.  Collins got a fair deal.

2021-2026: 23/23.5/25.3/26.5/26.5

Capella?

2021-2025: 18.6/19.7/22.1/23.7

BB another two years at 18, with a player option in the third year. 

Gallo made out like a bandit: 20.4/21.4

I like Porter.  Made great strides. 

But like Philly with Simmons?

Under no compulsion to max the motherfucker out. 

Porter

2021-2026: 5.2/29.7/32.1/34.5/36.9

Simmons

2021-2025: 33/35.4/37.9/40.3

YIKES. 

Who the fuck is going to trade for Simmons? 

Here's a BoD trade.

Houston gives Philly Christian Wood & Eric Gordon + plus 2022 first-round selection from Brooklyn OR Miami (top 14 protected). Whichever is higher  Plus 2024 Brooklyn #1. 
Title: Knicks Draft Assets Through 2029
Post by: chipstern on November 29, 2021, 05:59:54 PM
Pretty fascinating stuff. 

https://www.prosportstransactions.com/basketball/DraftTrades/Future/Knicks.htm (https://www.prosportstransactions.com/basketball/DraftTrades/Future/Knicks.htm)
Title: Opportunity Knocks/Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 29, 2021, 06:02:43 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on November 29, 2021, 05:22:26 PM
Nawlins has been hobbled all season.
Was an impressive warrior all last year.
His 4Q blocks were a regular catalyst to Knick wins.

Both Father Noel and Mitch Riderson have been gimpy this year.

I love Nerlens Noel.  Not just a rim protector, a but an excellent all around defender. 

Has been gimpy all his career. 

Sims gives us more time to let our gimps Nerlens and Taj to heal, and for Mitchell to reup his stamina and sea legs. 

Meanwhile.

YA THINK JERICHO MIGHT BE MOTIVATING BROTHER NOEL? 
Title: Must See TV
Post by: chipstern on November 29, 2021, 06:14:16 PM
Tuesday Night?

Knicks-Nets

Warriors-Suns
Title: Opportunity Knocks/Knicks, Part 2
Post by: chipstern on November 29, 2021, 06:16:48 PM
Wally Pipp > Lou Gehrig

Kemba Walker > Alec Burks/Immanuel Quickley

Nerlens Noel/Taj Gibson > Jericho Sims
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 29, 2021, 06:29:32 PM
I'll tolerate no Noel slander unless its about his comical stone hands. 
Title: Re: Trivia time
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 29, 2021, 06:36:18 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 29, 2021, 09:17:55 AM
Over the last 20 seasons Carmelo Anthony leads all Knicks in 35 point / 10 rebound games.  He did it 16 times.

No other player has managed more that feat more than 4 times.    Two have done it 4 times.    Julius Randle has only done it 3 times.

Name the 2 Knicks players who have logged 4 games (as a Knick) of 35 and 10 in the last 20 years.

Zeeeee Bowwwwww...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 29, 2021, 06:40:15 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on November 29, 2021, 04:17:21 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 28, 2021, 12:14:02 PM
Knicks will go back to their regular lineup.

Well this didn't age well, lol......

Not crowing, the problems in our first five weren't all Kemba, and still being fixed, But hard to argue with this-

Knicks have the best defense in the league when he's on the bench ...99.0 DRtg...and are dead last ...116.3 DRtg...when he's on the floor

Love Burks

No problems at all with this.
Title: Re: Trivia time
Post by: Kam on November 29, 2021, 10:08:36 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 29, 2021, 06:36:18 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 29, 2021, 09:17:55 AM
Over the last 20 seasons Carmelo Anthony leads all Knicks in 35 point / 10 rebound games.  He did it 16 times.

No other player has managed more that feat more than 4 times.    Two have done it 4 times.    Julius Randle has only done it 3 times.

Name the 2 Knicks players who have logged 4 games (as a Knick) of 35 and 10 in the last 20 years.

Zeeeee Bowwwwww...


Nice guess but not correct.   Z Bo never scored 30+ as a Knick.

Hint:  One answer is a little more recent than Z Bo and the other is from that same team as Z Bo.   
Title: The sword had to fall on somebody
Post by: Kam on November 29, 2021, 10:26:27 PM
And it fell on Kemba.   A little unfair that he is the scapegoat for the sputtering start but credit to Thibs for shaking things up.   I mean he had to see these stats:


Tommy Beer
@TommyBeer
It's a tough call. But Thibs made the right, albeit difficult, decision.

The Knicks have been outscored by a whopping 122 points in the 441 minutes Kemba has played this season.

Minus-122 is the worst plus/minus (by far) by any player on a winning team in the NBA this season

In contrast,
The Knicks have outscored their opponents by:
+113 points with Derrick Rose on the floor
+100 points with Immanuel Quickley on the court
+46 points with Alec Burks on the court this season
Title: Re: Trivia time
Post by: facilitatorn on November 30, 2021, 12:59:02 AM
Quote from: Kam on November 29, 2021, 10:08:36 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 29, 2021, 06:36:18 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 29, 2021, 09:17:55 AM
Over the last 20 seasons Carmelo Anthony leads all Knicks in 35 point / 10 rebound games.  He did it 16 times.

No other player has managed more that feat more than 4 times.    Two have done it 4 times.    Julius Randle has only done it 3 times.

Name the 2 Knicks players who have logged 4 games (as a Knick) of 35 and 10 in the last 20 years.

Zeeeee Bowwwwww...


Nice guess but not correct.   Z Bo never scored 30+ as a Knick.

Hint:  One answer is a little more recent than Z Bo and the other is from that same team as Z Bo.

Been thinking it was STAT and Adult Al.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 30, 2021, 09:13:04 AM
Trade for this morning

(must wait another 2-3 weeks and LAL must still be staggering somewhat)

Evan Fournier, Kemba Walker and Kevin Knox

for

Russell Westbrook
Title: Re: Trivia time
Post by: Kam on November 30, 2021, 09:32:31 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 30, 2021, 12:59:02 AM
Quote from: Kam on November 29, 2021, 10:08:36 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 29, 2021, 06:36:18 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 29, 2021, 09:17:55 AM
Over the last 20 seasons Carmelo Anthony leads all Knicks in 35 point / 10 rebound games.  He did it 16 times.

No other player has managed more that feat more than 4 times.    Two have done it 4 times.    Julius Randle has only done it 3 times.

Name the 2 Knicks players who have logged 4 games (as a Knick) of 35 and 10 in the last 20 years.

Zeeeee Bowwwwww...


Nice guess but not correct.   Z Bo never scored 30+ as a Knick.

Hint:  One answer is a little more recent than Z Bo and the other is from that same team as Z Bo.

Been thinking it was STAT and Adult Al.

Correct on both!  Congrats.
Title: Re: Money Talks
Post by: bodiddley on November 30, 2021, 10:37:12 AM
Quote from: chipstern on November 29, 2021, 05:49:48 PM
Here's a BoD trade.[/b][/color][/font][/size]

Houston gives Philly Christian Wood & Eric Gordon + plus 2022 first-round selection from Brooklyn OR Miami (top 14 protected). Whichever is higher  Plus 2024 Brooklyn #1.

I've been working on the assumption that PHI needs to get a PG in return for Simmons, as they want to compete for a title.
Unless you think Maxey has shown enough.  He's played well, but to rely on TyMax as your starting PG in the playoffs?

Which brings me to a point about the Knix.  I'm fine trying a 3 SG alignment for a bit, but how far can a team
realistically go without an actual starting PG?  So at some point, not too many weeks from now, I want Rose or IQ starting.
Title: Re: The sword had to fall on somebody
Post by: Kam on November 30, 2021, 12:51:05 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 29, 2021, 10:26:27 PM
And it fell on Kemba.   A little unfair that he is the scapegoat for the sputtering start but credit to Thibs for shaking things up.   I mean he had to see these stats:


Tommy Beer
@TommyBeer
It's a tough call. But Thibs made the right, albeit difficult, decision.

The Knicks have been outscored by a whopping 122 points in the 441 minutes Kemba has played this season.

Minus-122 is the worst plus/minus (by far) by any player on a winning team in the NBA this season

In contrast,
The Knicks have outscored their opponents by:
+113 points with Derrick Rose on the floor
+100 points with Immanuel Quickley on the court
+46 points with Alec Burks on the court this season

In fairness to the above damning stats, Walker is not having a bad year (offensively). He is one of three players in the league with per 36 minute averages of at least 16 points, four assists, three made threes and a 41 percent clip from downtown, joining Steph Curry and Mike Conley. We also have no sample size of how Walker would look if he was split apart from Julius Randle
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 30, 2021, 12:55:41 PM
The question is, did Thibs really want Kemba in the first place?

It sure seems like an analytically driven front office was the driving force behind a Fournier/Walker pairing, what with their penchant for spotting up on a dime and being able to play-make as needed. Thibs definitely appreciates the value of shooting, but not at the expense of the fundamental building blocks he holds near and dear to his heart. I could imagine the conversation that took place the day Walker name first came up.  Thibs probably sighs and says 

All right i will give it 20 games

.  - Macri
Title: More Kemba stuff from Macri
Post by: Kam on November 30, 2021, 01:05:41 PM
Now What?

There are, of course, questions that remain. Walker will say all the right things, but he cant be happy, not with an All-Star birth just two seasons in the rear view mirror and the aforementioned individual numbers he is putting up. Does he push for a move out of town? Brock Aller is not going to discuss a buy out, not with $9 million worth of a tidy little movable salary on the books for next season.

Whether someone out there wants to trade for Kemba Walker or his soon-to-be-expiring contract is up for debate, but if they want to move him, they should not have an issue. This summer is going to be unlike any that the league has ever seen, with virtually no top names hitting the market and very few organizations with any notable cap space to spend. Trades, both of the outright and sign & trade variety, will be the name of the game, and Walkers number would be the perfect amount for another team to throw into a larger deal.
Title: More Macri
Post by: Kam on November 30, 2021, 01:08:51 PM
If the Knicks want to move him. My guess is they probably want to keep him around for any deals they seek that may materialize this summer, when his cap number can be tossed in with Fournier to bring back a salary of up to $34 million (hello, KAT, DeAaron Fox, SGA, etc.). Maybe something materializes in the meantime, but I would be surprised if they dumped him just to dump him. Also, name the team out there dying to get themselves this version of Walker? And where is the lateral (i.e, non-star) trade that makes the Knicks materially better? I also dont think they move him just anywhere. This organization has long been concerned with being in the good graces of agents, and I doubt Leon Rose, a former agent himself, wants to jeopardize that.

So Walker likely stays and, I guess, rides the bench the rest of the year barring multiple injuries to key pieces. That is the reality of this move: Walker, even with his numbers, has arguably been the fourth best point guard on this team after Rose, Quickley and Burks. If the Knicks think Deuce McBride could give them 15 spot minutes in a pinch, there is little to no fear that this will turn into an uncomfortable situation where Walker is in and out of the rotation.
Title: Macri
Post by: Kam on November 30, 2021, 01:11:40 PM
As for who takes his place, my bet is on Burks remaining in the starting five and Quentin Grimes getting a chance to play semi consistent minutes. I say semi only because history has shown Thibs to play 10 man rotations begrudgingly, and that his preference is for nine or even 8.5 man groups. That said, guys will get banged up, and certain games will require a defensive spark. Grimes will get his chances.

Whoever it is, I would be surprised, stunned, actually, if this doesnt turn New Yorks season around. There have been good signs and bad signs through 20 games, but what cant be mistaken is that theyve been a team without an identity (and no, we have the best backups in the NBA is not an identity).

This move should get the Knicks back to a version closer to what we saw last year. The on off numbers say so, and the eye test doesnt disagree.

Walker always seemed like a low risk, moderate reward swing. It didnt work out, but that doesnt mean it wasnt worth trying. No harm, no foul.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 30, 2021, 01:38:14 PM
After how his year fell apart last season, getting paid to workout and recover in his home town for a season to come back as a better built player on a cheap expiring deal next year for a chance to show the league what the next chapter can look like does not seem like a bad place for Kemba to be.

If there is interest, we could trade him alone or in a package now or later. He might even resign with us if it makes sense and come back and play with the guy he was traded for. You never know.

I think Thibs can get the most out of Burks, especially if he can keep his turnovers down as he steps in to his new role.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 30, 2021, 02:07:33 PM
For an organization that has been lacking in stability the only change between last year and this is elevating Burks, adding Fournier with cap space, and drafting the rookies while losing Bullock and Payton to free agency.  The new additions have already made their presence felt.

The season started with 40% of the starting lineup shaken up and even that stays stable as Burks and Fournier are the new faces in the starting lineup.

Burks and Fournier as an upgrade over Payton and Bullock.  And a restocked bench with young hungry defensive scrappers and shooters. 

The time to buy Knicks stock is now.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 30, 2021, 02:13:33 PM
I agree - if the cashout point is not TITLE based.

Need that ALPHA guy.
Title: More Macri
Post by: Kam on November 30, 2021, 02:18:12 PM
Thibs bet is two-fold. 1. this is going to get Randle going, and 2. the defense is going to become a lot better.

He is right on the second front. So far this season, without Walker on the court, New York has allowed just over 100 points per 100 possessions, which is an elite number. Another encouraging stat, in 354 possessions of Julius Randle and RJ Barrett without Kemba, the Knicks have a positive 10.7 net rating.  Interesting corollary, with Jules and RJ but no Walker or Mitch, that number goes up to plus 17.0 in 225 possessions.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 30, 2021, 02:24:56 PM
(https://cdn.substack.com/image/fetch/w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fbucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-437e-9518-adb32be77984.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9564c564-b989-4a14-8bd7-84b8b24512c2_762x179.png)

It seems that once Walker and Barrett fell off a cliff individually, they took New Yorks offense into the canyon with them. Kemba is now out of the picture, and Burks has been one of the best shooters in basketball for a month now. If RJ can start hitting shots like he was to start the year, all will be right in the world.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 30, 2021, 03:02:08 PM
Barrett started - first 4 games - 18 for 46, 6-23 from 3

Had 3 good games - 29/52, 12/19

And is .333, .250 over last 13.

Has shot 50% in 5 of 20 games
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 30, 2021, 03:03:10 PM
So...

do we see OBI play some 3?
Title: NEXT MAN UP
Post by: chipstern on November 30, 2021, 03:16:08 PM
Tommy Beer: Knicks are listing the following players as questionable for Nyets tonight

Mitchell Robinson
RJ Barrett
Nerlens Noel
Taj Gibson
Derrick Rose
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 30, 2021, 03:16:42 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 30, 2021, 03:03:10 PM
So...

do we see OBI play some 3?

I would guess that Thibs has seen it in practice and Obi hasn't been able to guard the position or else we'd have seen it already.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 30, 2021, 03:19:17 PM
Why?  Burks and Barrett played every game

Now Burks is a 1
Title: Nyets
Post by: chipstern on November 30, 2021, 03:29:28 PM
Mitchell and RJ with Non-Coivd related illness
Nerlens [knee]
Taj [Groin]
Rose [Ankle]

Leaving us with...

C-PF: Randle, Toppin, Sims
SF-PF: Knox
SG-SF: Fournier, Grimes, Selden
PG-SG: Burks, IQ, McBride, Walker

Interesting. 

Opportunity knicks for Kevin Knox at SF...

Also, might the Knicks bring up 6'11 PF Luka Samanic from Westchester for a look see? 

He is on a two-way contract. 

Might Thibs HAVE TO give Walker some minutes, or does Miles McBride finally get some actual game time burn? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 30, 2021, 03:34:36 PM
I think the team has enough to compete/win even with all the injuries.   I predict that either IQ or Quentin Grimes or both have big scoring games.
Title: December 15
Post by: chipstern on November 30, 2021, 03:41:51 PM
First day new contracts can be traded.

Of course does not preclude nonsensical projections, such as Houston emerging as a trading partner for the Knicks. 

Wall

COUGH

Nevermind that Wall is every bit as gimpy as  Kemba.

$44,310,840  $47,366,760

We'd have to trade half our roster. 

Houston/Philly?

Wall & Wood and Draft Assets

For

Simmons
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 30, 2021, 04:53:28 PM
Might Thibs HAVE TO give Walker some minutes, or does Miles McBride finally get some actual game time burn?


Walker will not be a bench player, per Thibs
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 30, 2021, 05:10:22 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 30, 2021, 03:34:36 PM
I think the team has enough to compete/win even with all the injuries.   I predict that either IQ or Quentin Grimes or both have big scoring games.

Thibs mentioned "the rotation we had in Atlanta game" as a distinct positive.

5 out offense could be on tap tonight
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 30, 2021, 05:14:56 PM

Jordan Schultz
@Schultz_Report
In light of Thibs removing Kemba Walker from his rotation, sources say three teams have already reached out to the #Knicks inquiring about a potential trade for Walker.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 30, 2021, 05:18:49 PM
Choice of announcers tonight

Kevin Harlan and Reggie Miller - TNT

YES does not have the game
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 30, 2021, 05:20:26 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 30, 2021, 05:14:56 PM

Jordan Schultz
@Schultz_Report
In light of Thibs removing Kemba Walker from his rotation, sources say three teams have already reached out to the #Knicks inquiring about a potential trade for Walker.

I wonder why
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 30, 2021, 05:34:07 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 30, 2021, 05:20:26 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 30, 2021, 05:14:56 PM

Jordan Schultz
@Schultz_Report
In light of Thibs removing Kemba Walker from his rotation, sources say three teams have already reached out to the #Knicks inquiring about a potential trade for Walker.

I wonder why

Maybe the Lakers want to add to their 2015 All Star team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 30, 2021, 06:46:48 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 30, 2021, 05:14:56 PM

Jordan Schultz
@Schultz_Report
In light of Thibs removing Kemba Walker from his rotation, sources say three teams have already reached out to the #Knicks inquiring about a potential trade for Walker.

Nothing jumps until December 15. 

Hey, maybe the Nets make an offer. 

Title: Five Out Five In
Post by: chipstern on November 30, 2021, 07:39:51 PM
All the players reported out?

All are in. 
Title: Home Stretch
Post by: chipstern on November 30, 2021, 09:22:31 PM
Damn

One Hell Of A Game. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 30, 2021, 09:31:00 PM
6 or 7 gamer in May
Title: Thibs
Post by: chipstern on November 30, 2021, 09:32:39 PM
Randle
Obi
Burks
IQ
Rose

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 30, 2021, 09:51:49 PM
Fournier for OBI - need a 3.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 30, 2021, 09:52:14 PM
Fuckin MONEY!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 30, 2021, 09:56:44 PM
Mitch the foul machine needed to not be out there in the end.

Ouch.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 30, 2021, 10:22:38 PM
Mitch did not foul there at the end and Harden got away with a walk the possession prior.

KD and Harden are already seeing massive returns from their donations to the referees benevolent fund. Randle should match or exceed their gift, now that he has gotten a bag.

Coming out of halftime was still a problem, but there is a lot to work with here.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 30, 2021, 10:26:38 PM
So Burks had a huge game

And was -11

Silly stat
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 01, 2021, 06:34:39 AM
Sure ... if you don't understand it.

First off +/- is a team stat or more accurately a 5-man unit stat.
It isn't a great single game or single player stat, though sometimes it does reveal who was the weak link.  In the aggregate and over enough games (and seasons) it does provide useful info on individual players.

In this game, Burks -11 reflects the fact that our core starters (note that Randle and Mitch had a similar +/-) were bested by BKY's; and since we only lost by 2, our bench strongly outplayed theirs.  Gee, funny how the silly stat reflects what happened in the game.

I tend to think of +/- as partially underscoring who was/wasn't playing D.  But more importantly, players who make underappreciated contributions such as screen setting, hockey assists, deflecting the ball and making other hustle plays, who usually are rewarded by +/-, since such non-boxscore stats impact winning.

For years on GS, Iguodala has been the king of no-stat, high +/- games.
Where his conventional counting stats are often negligible but his contributions to outscoring the other team is significant.  Of course it helps to have all-star teammates.  As +/- remains fundamentally a unit stat, from which individual contribution to winning can be parsed.

Grimes -12 in 3 mins is unfortunate, but he came in and BKY went on a 10-0 run, Of course Grimes isn't responsible for that early 3Q Nets run, but if I were the Knix coaching staff, I'd be looking at that stretch and the unit we had and the mistakes we made.  Cause that was a key part of the L.  The first bucket being KD going right at Grimey and shooting an easy 6' over him. Followed by Randle jacking a heavily contested 20' over Durant.  Then a very casual turnover/pass from Burks.  Then Fournier dribbling nowhere and throwing a poor pass to Mitch, stolen by BKY.
Gee, might be good to have a PG out there ...
Then Mitch stood by while harden rammed down an O-board.
So not surprising that Burks, Randle and Mitch had circa -10's for the game.  All  culprits in the BKY 3Q 10-0 run.

Or if that isn't helpful just go with your gut that the thing you don't understand is stupid, ignorance is strength, and you're smarter than the rest.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 01, 2021, 11:59:53 AM
Haliburton might be the guy to deal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 01, 2021, 01:15:29 PM
Great game to watch last night. Really wanted that one.

Not saying he had a bad game, but many of Robinson's weaknesses were on display. If Taj was healthy, I'm pretty sure Thibs has him in there at the end.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 01, 2021, 02:14:47 PM

TyH 2-10 FG, 3 turnovers and 6 points in 32 mins. 
But a team best -1 in Sacto's horrific 25 point loss to LAL.
So the Kings got drubbed when TyH was out.
Fox, Hield, Metu all -21, Dav Mitch -17.
TyH did have some nice counting stats, 6 boards, 5 assists & 2 steals.

The +/- underscores TyH's contributions and defense.  When I watch, even in off games, Halliburton just remains poised and slows things down and steadies the team on both ends.  Plays like he's participating in a team sport.  Glue guy if you like that term.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 01, 2021, 03:17:41 PM
Exactly

Much more valuable to a winning team.

Kings could deal him for a player that could help boost their win total, which TH doesnt seem to do.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 01, 2021, 04:45:03 PM
Trade the one player you should keep.
Always a winning strategy.
But yes, the Kings can, and did, lose without him.

Was a terrific NY, NY game.
The ballhandling by Burks and Fournier was often sloppy and the Knix wound up with a lo of iso's and shots late in the clock.  Randle took a lot of tough shots (made a few long 2's with Durant in his face).  Things looked much better with IQ and Rose in there.  Rose not big/strong enough to guard Harden.  Really could have used RJB. 
Toppings is first man down court every time.  Gets a few easy baskets every game by sprinting.  Knix transition D is still highly porous.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 01, 2021, 06:12:15 PM
Quote from: elephant on December 01, 2021, 01:15:29 PM
Great game to watch last night. Really wanted that one.


I love how Brooklyn is still a home crowd.   There were Nets fans chanting MVP for KD late in the game at the FT line yes, but, and HOWEVER.... the Knicks, specifically OBI got the loudest cheers of the night.  The Nets could boost attendance just by trading KD for Obi and IQ ; )
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 01, 2021, 11:01:30 PM
Trade the one player you should keep.


Kings are keeping Haliburton to what end?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 01, 2021, 11:14:11 PM
Kings-Clippers NBA TV - lets see if they can keep a lead tonight, unlike vs Lakers

Davion Mitchell 13 early points

Metu with 10, Ty with 7, Fox 5.  Kings 15-30, 7-17, 5-6 but are a horrible halftime adjust team
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 01, 2021, 11:17:43 PM
What would you offer for Ty H is you are Leon Rose?  Give me a fair deal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 02, 2021, 12:49:05 AM
Kings, baby.

Davion a pretty good 9th pick.  Even with their 3 other guards.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 02, 2021, 05:48:43 AM
Davion is a relentless defender.  He seems to be a Pa Bev type player.  Maybe can improve the shooting to become a Marcus Smart.

The best Haliburton trade for the Knix would be Fournier for TyH, but the money doesn't work at all.  We'd get a ballhandler, decision-maker, defender upgrade at combo G.  They'd get the better outside shooter.   TyH & Bags for Fournier + could work.

I'd offer Quix for TyH.  But Quix is somewhat duplicative of Fox, but with a 3-ball.
And they have 2 PG's already (ie they say No)

ObiT for TyH is a fair deal.  Which they could do since they are down on Bagley.  Not that they should trade a defender/ballhandler and add another iffy defender (ObiT has been improving on D).  Knix would be thin at PF, unless Sims can man the backup PF.  Kings could toss in Bags and we give them say Noel.

Obit & Noel for TyH & Bags. 
Money seems to work.  Looks like Bags will be a FA next year.  We'd drop Nawlins $9M, maybe resign Bags at $5M(?).  They have Tristan and Len, but no shot blocker.  Maybe Noel's gimpiness is a turnoff, but good to have a shotblocker next to Holmes for part of his nightly run.  ObiT would get more minutes, either starting or backing up Holmes/Barnes.

Issues: Knix have a lot of G's already.  TyH plays a similar role as Rose.
It doesn't solve our lack of starting PG, unless we make it Rose.  TyH is a combo G, not a full-time starting PG. 

For the Knix, it makes more sense moving Fournier for TyH. (TyH & Bags for Fournier +).  Kings probably would prefer ObiT.  But then they'd have Fox - Hield - Obit - Holmes as turnstyles.   Knox and Kemba are available on our side if that helps anything.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 02, 2021, 09:12:09 AM
Fair take.

I was thinking more along the lines of getting a pseudo star player in to Sacramento by packaging Ty H with soomebody

Recall times Kings were good they had guys like

WEbber
Richmond
Peja

Ty not near in that ability range, though just 21.

Re:  Davion

His final season at Baylor saw a real uptick in percentage shooting - so maybe that bodes well

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mitchda01.html#all_all_college_stats

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 02, 2021, 10:14:42 AM
 The NBA released its last 2-minutes report from the Nets game, and yes, the Knicks did indeed get jobbed. While the league ruled that the foul call on Mitch at the end of the game was correct, they also admitted that they missed a 3-second violation on LaMarcus Aldridge immediately before that, and that a swipe by James Harden on Julius Randle (highlighted below) was also unfair contact.

(https://cdn.substack.com/image/fetch/w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_lossy/https%3A%2F%2Fbucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-437e-9518-adb32be77984.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F00dd40f3-953a-48aa-a6b6-ba6f6f705152_480x266.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 02, 2021, 11:39:04 AM
Thanks, Kam

I guess the Harden travel wasnt a travel.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 02, 2021, 11:42:51 AM
The missed three seconds call was on an earlier possession, right - not on the trip where Mitch fouled (Johnson, was it)?

Thanks.  Good show by our guys.

Meanwhile, three teams jumped us.  Boston, Cleveland and Atlanta.  All now 12-10 to our 11-10.  Sitting TENTH, a tick ahead of Philly

https://www.nba.com/standings
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 02, 2021, 11:55:20 AM
KIA ROOKIE LADDER (usage and rankings) - Barnes over Mobley - current

Love this - just J Kuminga and Z Williams - of top ten picked - not in actual top ten, though top pick Green barely makes list

Usage numbers also given, with Suggs in lead

https://www.nba.com/news/kia-rookie-ladder-dec-1-2021-edition

Knicks had it right in liking Duarte
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 02, 2021, 12:37:11 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 02, 2021, 10:14:42 AM
The NBA released its last 2-minutes report from the Nets game, and yes, the Knicks did indeed get jobbed. While the league ruled that the foul call on Mitch at the end of the game was correct, they also admitted that they missed a 3-second violation on LaMarcus Aldridge immediately before that, and that a swipe by James Harden on Julius Randle (highlighted below) was also unfair contact.

I noticed what seemed a clear 3 sec on LMA.  It seemed like the refs gave him leeway since he started to try getting out of the lane around/before the 3 sec mark. But he was in there for nearly a 4 count.

Harden got his foul in early as Randle gathered and turned, and it was hard for the refs to see if Harden made any contact on his quick slap.  And under 2 mins the refs tend to call less. 

Randle didn't sell the foul (yes, he shouldn't have to), but by continuing with his normal shooting motion and looking unaffected, the ref assumed there was no contact (or just ball contact).  50/50 if that gets called, really only if the ref had a great view. 

Blame Thibs for blowing his challenge earlier on a Rose foul circa 6' left when Durant drove and missed a dunk.  Also, Rose should have simply sauntered over by the bench and admit that he hit KD's arm.  Rose had to know the challenge would be unsuccessful.  More than any other coach I've seen, Thibs is willing to use his challenge early, including 1st half.  Best to save them for the endgame.

Also, that was ridiculous for Randle to act out and get a T so late in such a close game.  And then next thing he loses the ball on a drive, possibly because his head was still steaming.  Unleaderlike.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 02, 2021, 12:52:37 PM
Also, Rose should have simply sauntered over by the bench and admit that he hit KD's arm.  Rose had to know the challenge would be unsuccessful. 


Good catch - I thought the same at the time
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 02, 2021, 12:56:03 PM
Also, that was ridiculous for Randle to act out and get a T so late in such a close game.  And then next thing he loses the ball on a drive, possibly because his head was still steaming.  Unleaderlike.


No alpha.  As I said.

ROSE is the only candidate.  Quickley the only other to show that type chutzpah (sorry, Chip).  But neither plays enough minutes.

WESTBROOK - for good or bad (I will say GOOD, though not ideal) - becomes that guy.  (No worries - LBJ not letting Russ go).  PAUL - absolutely perfect - as would have BALL.

Re:  Lonzo - Bulls were sanctioned for tampering - losing a #2 pick.  How in hell does that help a team like NY - who was hurt by the tampering?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 02, 2021, 12:57:01 PM
If Bulls land LaMelo in free agency, I will be quite pissed.
Title: Phantasy Island
Post by: chipstern on December 02, 2021, 06:31:06 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 02, 2021, 05:48:43 AM
Davion is a relentless defender.  He seems to be a Pa Bev type player.  Maybe can improve the shooting to become a Marcus Smart.

The best Haliburton trade for the Knix would be Fournier for TyH, but the money doesn't work at all.  We'd get a ballhandler, decision-maker, defender upgrade at combo G.  They'd get the better outside shooter.   TyH & Bags for Fournier + could work.

I'd offer Quix for TyH.  But Quix is somewhat duplicative of Fox, but with a 3-ball.
And they have 2 PG's already (ie they say No)

ObiT for TyH is a fair deal.  Which they could do since they are down on Bagley.  Not that they should trade a defender/ballhandler and add another iffy defender (ObiT has been improving on D).  Knix would be thin at PF, unless Sims can man the backup PF.  Kings could toss in Bags and we give them say Noel.

Obit & Noel for TyH & Bags. 
Money seems to work.  Looks like Bags will be a FA next year.  We'd drop Nawlins $9M, maybe resign Bags at $5M(?).  They have Tristan and Len, but no shot blocker.  Maybe Noel's gimpiness is a turnoff, but good to have a shotblocker next to Holmes for part of his nightly run.  ObiT would get more minutes, either starting or backing up Holmes/Barnes.

Issues: Knix have a lot of G's already.  TyH plays a similar role as Rose.
It doesn't solve our lack of starting PG, unless we make it Rose.  TyH is a combo G, not a full-time starting PG. 

For the Knix, it makes more sense moving Fournier for TyH. (TyH & Bags for Fournier +).  Kings probably would prefer ObiT.  But then they'd have Fox - Hield - Obit - Holmes as turnstyles.   Knox and Kemba are available on our side if that helps anything.

The Kings already have Harrison Barnes and Buddy Hield. 

Why then would they have any interest in Fournier for three guaranteed years? 

And why pray tell would they have any interest in trading Haliburton?

Would Chip do Fournier for TyH and Bagley?

Seems rather wildly one sided in our favor.  But Bagley is Okafor 2.1

Oh, and are we trading OBI again?  Why, pray tell?  Did they legalize marijuana in Shanghai?  And are we really inviting a Marvin Bagley return?  MB is not an out and out bum, but he is wildly inconsistent, inevitably injured, a lousy shooter, a lousy FT shooter, not a rim protector, not a significant defender or shot blocker, and is always pissed off about riding the pine...and when Junior isn't pissed, his father is on Twitter having a hissy fit and demanding a trade, except who the fuck wants to trade for someone so fragile and iffy, making 11.3 this season with a qualifying offer of 14.7 due next season. 

Except the Kings DID NOT EXTEND BAGLEY A QUALIFYING OFFER, meaning he will be an unrestricted FA in the summer of 2022. 

Maybe the Mavs will extend him an offer. 

God knows the Knicks will not. 

Clearly you have too much time on your hands. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nj8fbfOAkZ4&t=64s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nj8fbfOAkZ4&t=64s)

Rather than chase your own tail, enjoy instead Buster Keaton pursued by thousands of scorned brides-in-waiting [from 1925], perhaps the greatest chase sequence in the history of cinema. 
Title: I'll See Your Improbable Trade And Raise You One
Post by: chipstern on December 02, 2021, 06:47:11 PM
First of all, nothing goes down until Deember 15. 

Second, the Kings are NOT SHOPPING Haliburton. 

Third, obviously Bagley is up for grabs. 

However, Harrison Barnes is purportedly being shopped.

Can't see why.

6'8"

29 years old

35.0   5.8   12.1   .478   1.9   4.9   .398   3.8   7.2   .533   .559   5.5   6.5   .846   1.4   5.8   7.2   2.4   1.0   0.2   2.1   1.4   19.0

Excellent shooter and shot creator.  Top tier FT shooter, getting to the line 6.5 times a game.  7.2 boards and 2.4 assists...gives you coverage at SF and PF. 

Perhaps we could offer them Kemba, Knox and a bag of magic beans. 

Anyway, since we are dreaming the impossible dream....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 02, 2021, 06:50:02 PM
Chip - the issue is a Haliburton-based offer (say three guys) for an ALPHA type player.

Lets call him McCollum.

For Knicks lets call him .... well, we dont have a guy unless it is Randle.

Bo prefers to keep Ty H (for Kings) and likely Mitchell, shitcan (offer in trade) everyone else and build.

Me?  I think Fox is a stud, I appreciate Hield (though could live with dealing him) and I like Holmes.  Mitchell obviously a keeper.  How do you IMPROVE from there.  You are a 30-35- maybe 38-41 win team tops - but getting a key semi-star in here with Fox - you may then have something.  Haliburton is GLUE.  But there's not enough balsa for the glue to take.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 02, 2021, 06:57:13 PM
Chip isnt taking Ty H for Obi

Interesting
Title: It's Official
Post by: chipstern on December 02, 2021, 07:27:27 PM
Smart

Beautiful

Funny

Can stick the trey.

I am in love with Monica McNutt.

Tall

Tan

&

Terrific

Oh death where is thy sting.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 02, 2021, 07:41:33 PM
"Smart

Beautuful..."


MASCULINE...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 02, 2021, 07:51:18 PM
Ahhh...the Bulls

At different times this forum has had low opinion of

BALL
LEVINE
DEROZEN
WHITE

Not sure why this is.

Maybe Vucevic and Caruso are what is driving them - heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 02, 2021, 08:00:10 PM
Taj ejected

Thibs simmering

This will ignite us...

or this is a blowout at home

Oy.
Title: Re: Phantasy Island
Post by: carlos123 on December 02, 2021, 08:01:48 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 02, 2021, 06:31:06 PM
Quote from: BoZizzley on December 02, 2021, 05:48:43 AM
The best Haliburton trade for the Knix would be...
...                ...                   ......                    .......    ........... ...........................
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.........................................................


And why pray tell would they have any interest in trading Haliburton?

Clearly you have too much time on your hands. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nj8fbfOAkZ4&t=64s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nj8fbfOAkZ4&t=64s)

Rather than chase your own tail, enjoy instead Buster Keaton pursued by thousands of scorned brides-in-waiting [from 1925], perhaps the greatest chase sequence in the history of cinema.

Chip, BoZ produced all of those PHANTASY TRADES only because his friend Chamaco Cartero dared him to do so.

GREAT CHASE SEQUENCE, THANK YOU.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 02, 2021, 08:10:03 PM
So happy the porous defender Walker isnt in there tonight

heh

(Bulls pour in 37, including an alley oop to............Caruso.  I kid you not)

I will wait for Bo to analyze the quarter - should be good.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 02, 2021, 09:34:29 PM
Tuned in late 3Q.
Randle goes to the bench with 10 secs left looking exhausted (33 of 36 mins).
Internet connection not up to snuff for 4Q.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 02, 2021, 09:36:53 PM
97-all!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 02, 2021, 09:37:52 PM
Entering 4Q, Zo Ball -13; Caruso +20.
But I quite like the Ball-Caruso backcourt.
Ballhawks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 02, 2021, 09:47:04 PM
ZoBa missing a pair of wide open corner 3's ...
Bulls also fumbled a pass right under the hoop, losing an open layup.
Knix D getting lucky; needs to tighten up.

ObiT did a nice job the first half of 4Q spelling Randle.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 02, 2021, 09:59:13 PM
Vuc misses an open 3 with just over 1' left.
Not good NYK D.

Knix close out the game without a C.
DeRozan takes advantage.
Caruso's steal on Randle the play of the game.

IQ not sharp in the desperation endgame.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 02, 2021, 10:00:17 PM
Tie score. One minute left. Julius gets the rebound. I am in my kitchen screaming, "Pass, pass, pass."

Apparently he doesn't hear me.

And with 4 guards on the floor, including Burke trailing a few steps behind him, he dribbles all the way up himself, gets a 2nd defender and a 3rd and loses the ball.

Not a glorious finish.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 02, 2021, 10:03:38 PM
So Quix got the start and NYK got killed 1Q.
Down 18 @ MSG afetr 1Q.
WHat happened?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 02, 2021, 10:31:15 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 02, 2021, 09:59:13 PM
Vuc misses an open 3 with just over 1' left.
Not good NYK D.

Knix close out the game without a C.
DeRozan takes advantage.
Caruso's steal on Randle the play of the game.

IQ not sharp in the desperation endgame.

Lost the game on offense.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 03, 2021, 12:35:46 AM
Quote from: elephant on December 02, 2021, 10:00:17 PM
Tie score. One minute left. Julius gets the rebound. I am in my kitchen screaming, "Pass, pass, pass."

Apparently he doesn't hear me.

And with 4 guards on the floor, including Burke trailing a few steps behind him, he dribbles all the way up himself, gets a 2nd defender and a 3rd and loses the ball.

Not a glorious finish.

That was extremely sad
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 03, 2021, 01:22:04 AM
Do not dribble into a Caruso double team. Make him chase you or stick with his man. The Kemba experiment has put us behind. Randle defending Vooch looked a lot better than Mitch trying it. I would have liked to see more Obi and less Mitch down the stretch. Glad to see Rose back and a smidge of Taj.

Missed for ee throws and turnovers from guys who should know betters really hurt us down the stretch and hurt me on an emotional level.

The Bulls are playing very good ball. The game was a good measuring stick. The gap is more execution than talent.

Finishing in the play in, keeping a lotto ticket, and also within 3 games of 5th with our 9 or 10 finish would not be the worst outcome of this regular season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 03, 2021, 01:59:42 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 02, 2021, 07:51:18 PM

Maybe Vucevic and Caruso are what is driving them - heh

Vucevic and Caruso are what is driving them.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 03, 2021, 06:59:37 AM
IQ was fairly invisible 1Q.  Didn't seem like anyone knew what his role was. 
One play Quix ran around setting multiple screens.

Mitch & Fournier have seemed a bit low energy lately.
Randle not sharp in the 1st half, missing layups and FT's.
Bulls sure get in the passing lanes.

I thought it odd Lakes didn't keep Caruso.  An energy guy.  But they wanted him to be a
3point shooter.  And once they added Westbrook, wanted to add min salary players.
I guess they wound up with A Very Brad on the cheap.  But I'd rather Caruso on my team than Westbrook!

Knox looked like he didn't know what his team was up to.  One play he started rotating out as his man (Caruso) cut back door for a layup.
Soon thereafter, Knox started cutting down the baseline and nearly got in the way of a lob inside to Randle.  Then Knox nails a straight on 3.  Down 21, I probably wouldn't have thought a Knox 3 ball was a good idea.  Then to close the half Knox is no help securing a rebound, as Bulls get two o-boards.
Title: Knicks season so far
Post by: Kam on December 03, 2021, 09:24:15 AM
New York has scored 2351 points, and given up 2354.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 03, 2021, 11:41:51 AM
FourEva and Mitch with 3Q energy.  Burks too.  And Randle on the boards.   IQ splashing 3's.  Suddenly it's a fun uptempo game with Knix playing hard and energetic on D, as though they watched film of Caruso at halftime.

If you scroll down to #3, this article has a lot of stats on how good LaVine & DeRozan have been on O (especially in clutch time); Ball and Caruso on D.
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/takeaways-at-nba-quarter-point-lakers-russell-westbrook-gamble-looking-bad-so-much-for-suns-regression/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 03, 2021, 01:30:43 PM
Fun to see Miles McBride get 31 last night.

https://twitter.com/nbagleague/status/1466598990191890437?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1466598990191890437%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftherookiewire.usatoday.com%2F2021%2F12%2F03%2Fknicks-miles-mcbride-g-league-highlights%2F (https://twitter.com/nbagleague/status/1466598990191890437?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1466598990191890437%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftherookiewire.usatoday.com%2F2021%2F12%2F03%2Fknicks-miles-mcbride-g-league-highlights%2F)
Title: Westchester
Post by: chipstern on December 03, 2021, 02:46:54 PM
McBride looked great.

So did Samanic [SaMaKnick?]

And Aamir Simms
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 03, 2021, 02:52:47 PM
Quote from: elephant on December 03, 2021, 01:30:43 PM
Fun to see Miles McBride get 31 last night.

https://twitter.com/nbagleague/status/1466598990191890437?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1466598990191890437%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftherookiewire.usatoday.com%2F2021%2F12%2F03%2Fknicks-miles-mcbride-g-league-highlights%2F (https://twitter.com/nbagleague/status/1466598990191890437?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1466598990191890437%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftherookiewire.usatoday.com%2F2021%2F12%2F03%2Fknicks-miles-mcbride-g-league-highlights%2F)

Lookin like Kemba
Title: 21st Century Schizoid Men
Post by: chipstern on December 03, 2021, 03:17:32 PM
Last night's game was a roller coaster ride. 

A few things. 

Gibson got tossed.  Jericho had some sort of bug, as did RJ.  Nerlens gimpy as per usual. 

The Bulls Big Three was just too much for us, though we came storming back in the second half, but DeMar DeRozan is an assassin of the Old School. 

[Worth noting that Scott Perry wanted to pursue DeRozan in free agency but was outvoted]

Big 4 if you count Caruso, who has been playing lights out on D and from 3. 

So Thibs went with a short rotation. 

Knox got a look, but looked lost [that 3 Knicks and one Bull, and the Bull, was it Caruso] on a rebound opportunity.

Grimes got a cameo. 

Bulls lacking size, but good D. 

Burks, Fournier and IQ were a combined 15-41.

2021 21st Century Schizoid Man 

I love Julius, and have been impressed by how he has gotten away from launching treys and returned to the low post attacking mode. 

He carried us for stretches of the game.  30 points on 14-21, 12 boards, 6 assists and 2 blocks. 

I mean, Burks-Fournier-Quickley were a combined 15-41

However, JR was 2-5 from the FT line, and had 7 turnovers. 

SEVEN TURNOVERS. 

What exactly is the reasoning behind Julius being a Point Forward.  When he gets to ponding and pivoting, pounding and pivoting, there is a 50/50 chance he makes a great pass as the help defenders collapse, or he stubbornly keeps juking until the double/triple knocks the ball out of his hand or he coughs it up. 

Much has been made about Julius not being a leader. 

Well, he is our best player, and is our leader by default, and some of that fault rests on Thibs, although--AND I WAS TOTALLY ON BOARD WITH ALL OF LEON ROSE'S MOVES--really, other than Derrick, who else fills the role of leader? 

When the season started, RJ looked as if he were ready to step into that role.  But he has struggled after a hot start. 

And filling the role of leader, what about getting a Laurel to complement Julius Randle's Hardy? 

Lavine-Vucevic-DeRozan

Bulls basically traded Wendell Carter and a 2021 and 2023 #1 pick for Nikola Vucevic. 

And to complement their bona fide superstar, Lavine, they got DeRozan, who has been looking very superstarry, and Lonzo Ball and Alex Caruso, who give them size and defensive tenacity, and the odd three ball. 

Noels has been gimpy.
Fournier has been up and down.
Burks has been solid as a role player, but as a starter, as a point? 
Walker has not been a good fit. 

Rose has been solid.
IQ and Obi and Jericho have had their ups and downs, but have brought a lot of energy. 

Neither Grimes not McBride have gotten a sustained look. 

Julius has been our bell cow, and has been getting his game together, but his help as not been consistent, and he tries to do--OR PERHAPS IS TASKED TO DO--too much. 

December 15 beckons.  What might the front office do? 

PS: Meanwhile, as has been duly noted, McBride, Samanic and Simms have been playing well in the G League.  McBride sure looks like a PG, and Burks sure looks a like a 6th man, but hey, who is Thibs going to give the keys to the car? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 03, 2021, 04:36:26 PM
"I was totally on board with all of Leon's moves"

Would love to know - other than DeRozen - who did Rose decide against - which player would have come here and is playing well.

I said I trust them.  But would like all the info I can get.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 03, 2021, 06:45:15 PM
There's chatter that players can be poached from underperforming POR and IND.
Love me some Brogdon.  Covington is expiring.  Not sure why he's slumped in POR, but I'd check into his mojo if he's available on the cheap.  The type of player we could use, if he can regain his form and is healthy.  Not proposing any trades, just guys to keep an eye on.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 03, 2021, 07:45:13 PM
At this point in time.

Our problems for yours.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 03, 2021, 09:23:23 PM
Waiting too long to deal guys becomes a problem

Frank
Knox
Now Barrett...
Mitch even (again - how much do you match to keep him?)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 04, 2021, 12:17:53 AM
RJB is fine.  Has game.
Knox and Franc never showed anything much, never managed as regular rotation players.

Of course guys can develop.  We dont really know who works hard, who has mental toughness, we don't even really know much about their health.  I never liked LaVine, as he was a chucker with terrible D.  But he's matured, gotten healthy and developed. Become a nice player.  And seems willing to defer to DeRozan.  Hell, many thought DeMar was a midrange anachronism, and he's killing it this year.  A similar tale is Wiggins, who has really benefited from playing with elite players in an elite system in GSW. 

Franc seems a limited cat, but could be a long-armed short-minute defender.
Knox has a physique but doesn't seem to be a bright basketball mind.  But maybe on the right team in the right system could become a useful NBA player.  We've seen some shades of that on O.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 04, 2021, 04:47:52 AM
Knix just 5-7 at Home.
Only 3 East teams with a worse home record: TOR 3-8 and the two bottom feeders DET & ORL, both 2-8.  SacKings just 3-8 @ home.

GSW eclipsed the Suns with stellar defense.  Helped that Book is out.
4Q Utah just outplayed Bos.  Conley and Mitch just went at and through and around Schroder.  Ingles got hot too, and Gobert did his thing inside on both ends.  Nice Utah win.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 04, 2021, 09:20:07 AM
Knicks have 10.9 mil option on Barrett for '22-'23

Where do we go with an offer?

https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/NYK.html
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 04, 2021, 11:57:31 AM
How many losses would it take for Thibs to

a)  demand some help from the front office
b)  tweak the offense a bit to get more pick and roll, more drive and dish, whatever alternative to running through JR
c)  reinsert Walker
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 04, 2021, 11:58:59 AM
Have to be all for taking a look at Samanic for 20 minutes a night

Loyalties in the way - but he did so with Kemba - why not Barrett or Mitch?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 04, 2021, 12:06:47 PM
Even with his 8-14 over last 2 games, Barrett over last 14:

13 shots per game
4.5 from deep

.339/.250

Add .675 from the line

Add 1.9/1.6 assist/turnovers

Just .4 steals and .2 blocks


Time for a change.  Burks to starting THREE was the move - not the 1.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 04, 2021, 12:18:50 PM
Samanic averaging 28.1/10.6 over 7 games

And this includes one game where he played just 18 minutes and went for 17/4.

So over last 6 he is at THIRTY per game, with ELEVEN POINT SEVEN boards.!!!!!!

Shooting percentage?  FIFTY FIVE and FORTY-ONE - dammit.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 04, 2021, 12:21:19 PM
Program note

Game is at 1 PM today

Look out for Monte Morris, having a nice run (I think Bones Hyland is still sick/injured)

Schedule gets rough

Denver
Then 3 game road swing
Then home for Bucks/Warriors

Can we get three of them?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 04, 2021, 01:46:47 PM
3rd straight game of suckitude.
Title: WTF?
Post by: chipstern on December 04, 2021, 05:00:48 PM
👁💩👁
Title: Let's Start At The Top And Work Our Way Down
Post by: lesterluv on December 04, 2021, 09:25:08 PM
We battle back to six down and Randle dribbles right into a triple team and turns it over...easy bucket at the other end and the tide went out for good. Reminiscent of his previous end game follies. We have all kinds of problems, but if he wants to be the man, and he desperately does, even going on a semi-slowdown when he wasn't completely, he has got to be better. And that goes double for D.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 04, 2021, 09:53:12 PM
And sit RJ's ass until he learns to shoot and finish.

Nobody has gotten more minutes to work it out in real time. Time's up. Work it out in practice.

And Thibs has gotta bring the young guys.

And more plays gotta be run for Fournier, bring him off a screen, he can actually shoot. Plays are good. Will help keep him focused too, he spaces out sometimes just watching Julius bounce the ball and forgets to play at all, do stuff like rebound, we can help keep his head in the game.

And Obi TIME, GRIMES TIME, and that other guy, it's his time too. I'm tired of seeing legs that look tired. Play some of these mf'ers we have.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 04, 2021, 11:25:17 PM
Last year RJB got to play with better defenders and worse offenders.  Allowed him to flourish.  This year with similar wings starting next to him, it's hard to see what his role is.  Earlier this year, teams were just parking RJB's man in the corner to remove him from the D, and going 4 on 4 against 3 subpar defenders.
RJB did very well in a tight defensive scheme. 

Quote
"I say it all year (and) I will continue to say it: We are going to win games with our defense," Randle added. "That is who we are."

No, that's who you were.  Knick defense runs hot and cold.  Average at best.

As for the offense: Knick iso-heavy offense doesn't favor RJB's skillset.
RJB is best cutting and driving.  Then when he gets a rhythm, popping in some 3's.
Don't think he's being used well this year.  Who do you want to develop and feature, our best two-way player who is just 21 or some journeymen vets (FourEva & Burks)?  These days, we're around .500 featuring vets.

Some guy I never heard of dismissing our O:
Quote
I felt they were out of sync, said Davon Reed, who had nine points and four assists. We know they are a heavy isolation team. We had shots we wanted to force them to take. ... They were definitely getting frustrated and we were locked in.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 04, 2021, 11:25:57 PM
The no PG alignment is not the way to go.
Get Rose in there as a starter to organize possessions.
It could be IQ but he seems to defer too much to the others and isn't that good at running Point anyway.  IQ and ObiT lead the bench mob.

Rose - Burks - RJB - Randle - Mitch
Pretty good O/D balance.  Fairly athletic.
See if they can create an identity.
Bench: IQ - Fournier - ObiT - Noel/Taj
NYK has a strong bench, so stop grinding down Randle, MItch, RJB, Burks with huge minutes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 04, 2021, 11:53:08 PM
Rose - Burks - RJB - Randle - Mitch



Nahhhhh...
Title: Typical Chamaco post
Post by: carlos123 on December 04, 2021, 11:59:31 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 04, 2021, 11:53:08 PM
Rose - Burks - RJB - Randle - Mitch



Nahhhhh...

Well "reasoned"... 👁💩👁

- Help Chamaco Cartero! -
(he needs it much more than Andy Parker)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 05, 2021, 12:15:29 AM
sacto considering how to blow a 10 point 4Q lead.
Mid 4Q, Fox with a front rim midranger, then a crazy triple-teamed layup attempt, followed by an airball 3.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 05, 2021, 12:28:49 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 04, 2021, 11:25:17 PM
Who do you want to develop and feature, our best two-way player who is just 21 or some journeymen vets (FourEva & Burks)? 

lol, lol, he ain't close to our best two way player...and I want to feature the guys who have the best shot at winning you games ...hint, that ain't RJ right now



*** work on that shot and finish somewhere else, not during my Knick games son

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 05, 2021, 12:31:40 AM
sacto considering how to blow a 10 point 4Q lead.
Mid 4Q, Fox with a front rim midranger, then a crazy triple-teamed layup attempt, followed by an airball 3.  3 straight possessions.

Clips got it down to 3 twice.  Then T Davis and TyH steadied the Kings.
Fox was awful 4Q.  Hield 1-5 on 3's, a non-factor again.

Clips a pretty up and down team.
PG13 5-21 with 5 turnovers.  Yikes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 05, 2021, 09:20:19 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 05, 2021, 12:15:29 AM
sacto considering how to blow a 10 point 4Q lead.
Mid 4Q, Fox with a front rim midranger, then a crazy triple-teamed layup attempt, followed by an airball 3.

Kings win.  Gentry may be on to something.  Is Walton that bad of a coach?

D'Aaron is a stud.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 05, 2021, 09:23:31 AM
Re. Davis

He started last night.

Hield continued off the bench

Major Bagley sighting which is Gentrys easiest and best move to date.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 05, 2021, 10:13:58 AM
Fox is entering Westbrook territory.
Without the steals and half the passing ability.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 05, 2021, 10:37:37 AM
Nah

Not that good.
Title: Meanwhile, Somewhere Out Within The Earthly Remains Of Amerika
Post by: chipstern on December 05, 2021, 04:07:28 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/0NapdUjh.jpg)

Merry Christmas! 🎄
ps. Santa, please bring ammo. 🎁
Rep Thomas Massie (R-Kentucky) and Family

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-congressman-posts-family-christmas-picture-with-guns-days-after-school-2021-12-05/ (https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-congressman-posts-family-christmas-picture-with-guns-days-after-school-2021-12-05/)
Title: THE ROYAL FAMILY
Post by: carlos123 on December 05, 2021, 08:45:46 PM
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLVnIzZfpuwH5CKf-iHvCey7cz8gndoChdJY6C6pa5_EqVWIXe9EXTFMBqfdNIkitiLR_EeWi97C2L05mbLjhV7NpRSxioHT-Ux23o70id5rtYwudazDkr2cF_cbZAUcxtd_qGWS_zZHig0BFfNol-RC=w708-h564-no?authuser=0)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 06, 2021, 02:56:07 AM
Join the Politics thread ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 06, 2021, 03:18:30 AM
About that off-season O-for-D swap:

Quote
New York has slipped from fourth in defense last season to 19th, and the offense improving from 22nd last year to 15th this season hasnt been enough to make up for that slippage.

Have we won a game since Kemba was benched?
Teams weren't really exploiting his weak D much, though they probably would in the playoffs.  Randle's talking a good game of defense, team defense. 

But with Kemba out of the rotation and Burks more active, Randle is our worst defender.  He boards well, and has improved on interior defense, but he's risible in transition, iffy on the perimeter, not much of a help defender, loses his man off ball, rotates poorly, and favors the occasional weird double team.  Too many poor defensive habits to unlearn.  The new NYK Melo.  Contract year Randle was probably  his career peak.

Oh well, I meant to write a post about losing our identity from last year.  Guess Im slumping too.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 06, 2021, 10:11:48 AM
Yep, Randle has some awful defensive efforts in chunks of games.

Nope, teams were exploiting Kemba pretty badly.

But ya gotta wish Thibs didn't take this all-or-nothing approach to lineup changes.

It doesn't work too well. Refusing to experiment with a starting lineup sans Payton for 83 games even though it was obvious he was going to be hopeless when it mattered. Dropping the full guillotine on Kemba when he wasn't meshing with Julius. Why not give him 10 minutes of run with a different unit? Plenty of offensive skills still there.Try drawing on the clear defensive attributes of our two rookies when somebody is killing us. Use the f'in bench when folks are tired. Or playing like they're tired.

Hopefully Thibs will flex up. Otherwise we're in some trouble.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 06, 2021, 11:05:34 AM
Tired.
The game before DEN, Randle played 33 of the first 36 mins.  Looked like he lost 5 pounds during the game.  Mitch has looked spent at times.  One transition hoop the opp Big scored easily and Clyde was left asking Where's Mitch?, who just didn't have the energy to change ends quickly.  And then there's Burks up to at times 40 mins a game lately. 
Grind 'em down to a Thib.

Uber Kelly shot 6-10 on 3's and 0-4 on FT's in the same game.  Odd.
Averaging 16 in 28 mins on 46/39/63 splits.
A nice bounce back season after not really fitting in well in GS.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 06, 2021, 11:44:58 AM
No excuse for it.
Not when depth is perhaps our biggest advantage.
Not when the youth have been showing so well.
Title: BoZ's structure
Post by: carlos123 on December 06, 2021, 12:21:56 PM
Quote from: BoZizzley on December 06, 2021, 02:56:07 AM
Join the Politics thread ...

You mean, your friend Chamaco's thread ...

That's good for Chamaco, Mr. Utley and you too.

Ain't going there, thanks. Plus, by posting here I got the advantage of annoying you with my lack of structure 😁
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 06, 2021, 01:06:28 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 06, 2021, 02:56:07 AM
Join the Politics thread ...

Oh, gee wiz, forgive me for being human. 
Title: Re-education
Post by: carlos123 on December 06, 2021, 01:14:35 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 06, 2021, 01:06:28 PM
Quote from: BoZizzley on December 06, 2021, 02:56:07 AM
Join the Politics thread ...

Oh, gee wiz, forgive me for being human.

Lets forgive BoZ...

The re-education in Xinjiang was hard on him, poor thing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 06, 2021, 01:51:10 PM

Uber Kelly shot 6-10 on 3's and 0-4 on FT's in the same game.  Odd.
Averaging 16 in 28 mins on 46/39/63 splits.
A nice bounce back season after not really fitting in well in GS

Took SEVEN years for KO to become an effective 3-shooter (25 games worth at least)

If it sticks they will have made a pretty good buy at 2-24 and have a decision on his next deal

(current PER of 15.7 is his best - career at 12.9 - good trend up)
Title: J MACRI this morning
Post by: Kam on December 06, 2021, 01:53:53 PM
As Thibs pointed out after the game, more than half the league now has at least one big man who can space the floor (ie going five out). This is not a problem that is going away.

Between Robinson, Noel (available for just 10 games, and ineffective at times when he has played) and Taj (11 games played), the inconsistency of New York center position has been the most underrated aspect of them falling to 24th in defense. Against a team like Denver, who for all of their injuries can still go five/out for 48 minutes (jokic, nnaji), this was perhaps a perfect storm.

It/s tempting to use that (and a whooole lot of missed open threes by New York) as an excuse for their first true ass/kicking off the season. Likewise, this is still a team that has had a second half lead in all but three games, and one of those (Indiana) they got within one.

But both talking points would only hide the truth: this was a no/show job that would make Paulie Walnuts blush. And that, more than anything, is why every Knicks fan should wake up this morning with serious concerns about what lies ahead.

It was probably too convenient to think that the removal of Walker would cure what ailed them (although save for the first quarter against the Bulls, their defense had looked largely solid in the three games prior to Saturday). Either way, we can now be sure it wasn/t the magic elixir that would get things back on track. Needless to say, with two losses to the Magic and a near defeat by the Rockets, no game can be taken for granted. If this level of play continues, the season can absolutely spiral out of control.

They have moves they can make. Trade season opens in 10 days, and I/m sure they will be active. Putting RJ into the second unit and elevating Grimes might actually give the starting five a jolt (and judging from Grimes getting an extended run with the starters in place of Barrett on Saturday may be an indication Thibs is mulling it over). At center, I mean the NBA/s ultimate in unspectacular consistency is sitting right there on the bench. I/d be very curious to see how they look with Taj starting and Mitch off the bench, where fewer stretch fives will be in to hurt him.

But these are all bandaids. At the end of the day, as Julius himself said afterwards, this is about looking in the mirror. It/s been a while since this organization was at a crossroads, but it feels like they/ve arrived at one now. Their best player has displayed the sort of inconsistency that left two teams ready to move on from him and left our own fan base just as willing to part ways before last season. Can he get back to what he was?

Time will tell. The same goes for RJ, whose shooting slump has extended well past any funk he was in last season. The sooner he accepts the fact that he/s not destined for greatness, as he told the New York Post right around when his shooting slump began, and that greatness instead comes from hours and hours in the gym, the better his chances get.

It has to start with them. The Immanuel Quickleys, Obi Toppins, Quentin Grimes and Deuce McBrides of the world are tireless (and, if you/re looking for silver linings, evidence of good things long term for this regime), but if they/re being depended on to rescue this season, this season is not going to be rescued, at least not in the way we now still hope.

Perhaps we get a healthier dose of all the kids after all. If that happens, this season will have pivoted in a way that almost no one could have possibly expected before it began. They/re another bad six weeks away from looking awfully hard at the top of the 2022 Draft.

(If you think that/s hyperbolic, consider: only six teams have a worse net rating than the Knicks since November 1. Four of them entered this season with the intention of tanking, the Pelicans have not yet seen their best player in uniform, and the Blazers have been Knicks West, only worse.)

Or we look back on this 11 and 12 start as nothing more than a bumpy transition for a roster that tried to reconfigure itself but realized that with this core group of players, there was only one style of play that was ever going to work.

But it/s getting late early. The clock has just about struck midnight, and Saturday/s pumpkin was proof of just how bad things have gotten.

The choice is theirs.

----


(As an aside, I wouldn/t be shocked in the slightest if the Knicks made a serious push for Myles Turner. This isn/t the first time Thibodeau has mentioned the prevalence of teams who can go five/out, as if to ask, where is mine? Noel and Taj have both taken corner threes this season, so the notion is being encouraged behind the scenes. Now its just a matter of getting someone who can make them).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 06, 2021, 02:18:12 PM
Kleber would help.  I said so previously

It's more a preferred style to have the rim protector on the court.  Rim protector/3 point range guys are few and far between (Turner being one, yes)
Title: Re: J MACRI this morning
Post by: chipstern on December 06, 2021, 02:29:19 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 06, 2021, 01:53:53 PM
As Thibs pointed out after the game, more than half the league now has at least one big man who can space the floor (ie going five out). This is not a problem that is going away.

Between Robinson, Noel (available for just 10 games, and ineffective at times when he has played) and Taj (11 games played), the inconsistency of New York center position has been the most underrated aspect of them falling to 24th in defense. Against a team like Denver, who for all of their injuries can still go five/out for 48 minutes (jokic, nnaji), this was perhaps a perfect storm.

It/s tempting to use that (and a whooole lot of missed open threes by New York) as an excuse for their first true ass/kicking off the season. Likewise, this is still a team that has had a second half lead in all but three games, and one of those (Indiana) they got within one.

But both talking points would only hide the truth: this was a no/show job that would make Paulie Walnuts blush. And that, more than anything, is why every Knicks fan should wake up this morning with serious concerns about what lies ahead.

It was probably too convenient to think that the removal of Walker would cure what ailed them (although save for the first quarter against the Bulls, their defense had looked largely solid in the three games prior to Saturday). Either way, we can now be sure it wasn/t the magic elixir that would get things back on track. Needless to say, with two losses to the Magic and a near defeat by the Rockets, no game can be taken for granted. If this level of play continues, the season can absolutely spiral out of control.

They have moves they can make. Trade season opens in 10 days, and I/m sure they will be active. Putting RJ into the second unit and elevating Grimes might actually give the starting five a jolt (and judging from Grimes getting an extended run with the starters in place of Barrett on Saturday may be an indication Thibs is mulling it over). At center, I mean the NBA/s ultimate in unspectacular consistency is sitting right there on the bench. I/d be very curious to see how they look with Taj starting and Mitch off the bench, where fewer stretch fives will be in to hurt him.

But these are all bandaids. At the end of the day, as Julius himself said afterwards, this is about looking in the mirror. It/s been a while since this organization was at a crossroads, but it feels like they/ve arrived at one now. Their best player has displayed the sort of inconsistency that left two teams ready to move on from him and left our own fan base just as willing to part ways before last season. Can he get back to what he was?

Time will tell. The same goes for RJ, whose shooting slump has extended well past any funk he was in last season. The sooner he accepts the fact that he/s not destined for greatness, as he told the New York Post right around when his shooting slump began, and that greatness instead comes from hours and hours in the gym, the better his chances get.

It has to start with them. The Immanuel Quickleys, Obi Toppins, Quentin Grimes and Deuce McBrides of the world are tireless (and, if you/re looking for silver linings, evidence of good things long term for this regime), but if they/re being depended on to rescue this season, this season is not going to be rescued, at least not in the way we now still hope.

Perhaps we get a healthier dose of all the kids after all. If that happens, this season will have pivoted in a way that almost no one could have possibly expected before it began. They/re another bad six weeks away from looking awfully hard at the top of the 2022 Draft.

(If you think that/s hyperbolic, consider: only six teams have a worse net rating than the Knicks since November 1. Four of them entered this season with the intention of tanking, the Pelicans have not yet seen their best player in uniform, and the Blazers have been Knicks West, only worse.)

Or we look back on this 11 and 12 start as nothing more than a bumpy transition for a roster that tried to reconfigure itself but realized that with this core group of players, there was only one style of play that was ever going to work.

But it/s getting late early. The clock has just about struck midnight, and Saturday/s pumpkin was proof of just how bad things have gotten.

The choice is theirs.

----


(As an aside, I wouldn/t be shocked in the slightest if the Knicks made a serious push for Myles Turner. This isn/t the first time Thibodeau has mentioned the prevalence of teams who can go five/out, as if to ask, where is mine? Noel and Taj have both taken corner threes this season, so the notion is being encouraged behind the scenes. Now its just a matter of getting someone who can make them).

Good stuff, Kam. 

Assuming health?

Noel/Gibson
Randle
Fournier
Burks
Rose

Robinson/Sims
Toppin
RJ
Grimes
IQ/McBride/Walker

There may indeed be trades in our future.

Myles Turner the most obvious target. 

But I do not believe that Indy is actively shopping him. 

In any event, it would take more than Kevin Knox and draft assets. 

ADDENDUM:  If we are heading out of the 1-10, I would not be inclined to give up our 2022 #1.  As per our second draft pick in 2022, that is contingent on Charlotte finishing out side the bottom 18, which they are currently trending towards. 

ADDENDUM 2:  While Walker being demoted from the First Unit makes a certain amount of sense, removing him altogether from the rotation seems kind of self-defeating.  He may not be a lead guard of yore, and his defense/size is problematic, but he is a pro, and his offensive skills could benefit a second unit, let alone buttress his possible trade value.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 06, 2021, 02:44:08 PM
After the first run of games, you give Walker a month off his knees to work on whatever you agree will help, ramp him back up, pray for no setbacks, then see what you got.

Grimes displacing Barrett to be the point of attack defender between Burks and Fournier and having RJ come in with Rose and IQ makes good sense to me.

Of our current options I like Taj as our starting center, even if he only plays short key minutes and takes nights off. We should be exploring the market as it emerges.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 06, 2021, 03:46:16 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 06, 2021, 02:56:07 AM
Join the Politics thread ...

(https://c.tenor.com/H8TiuLPHUzkAAAAM/come-to.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 06, 2021, 04:30:33 PM
Assuming health?

Noel/Gibson
Randle
Fournier
Burks
Rose

Nope

Not seeing Rose starting

Think bigger

Deal for a PG.  Use Kemba as part of package so he gets out of jail.

(So sad how the homecoming doesnt always work out)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 06, 2021, 10:22:06 PM
The best foot forward team is Taj JR RJ Burks Rose. What you get in picks, cuts, and box outs from Taj outweighs any falloff in shot blocking. Save the lob threat and rim protector guys for the second unit. It dies not leave you the strongest bench, but it is the rosters strongest unit.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 07, 2021, 12:14:57 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 06, 2021, 04:30:33 PM
Assuming health?

Noel/Gibson
Randle
Fournier
Burks
Rose

Nope

Not seeing Rose starting

Think bigger

Deal for a PG.  Use Kemba as part of package so he gets out of jail.

(So sad how the homecoming doesnt always work out)


Or....

Reverse course and give Walker his job back
Title: GREG TATE, R.I.P.
Post by: chipstern on December 07, 2021, 02:17:51 PM
https://www.okayplayer.com/music/greg-tate-the-godfather-of-hip-hop-journalism-has-died.html (https://www.okayplayer.com/music/greg-tate-the-godfather-of-hip-hop-journalism-has-died.html)

(https://openbookfestival.co.za/wp-content/uploads/1929781_10154524333326038_1675699057472717804_n.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 07, 2021, 02:54:54 PM
R.I.P. the godfather indeed...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 07, 2021, 04:32:54 PM
Late start tonight out in SA

8:30

Good tie in with second half of Lakers-Celtics on TNT

And if you want an early start - Luka vs Nets - TNT - 730
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 07, 2021, 04:42:11 PM
NBA deal brewing

McCollum, Little/Simons and a #1 for Simmons
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 07, 2021, 04:46:06 PM

Knicks like Turner but I like this better:

Turner plus to Blazers

Barrett, Fournier (plus?) to Pacers

McCollum to Knicks

CJ with 2 years after this, at 33.3 and 35.8
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 07, 2021, 06:05:46 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 07, 2021, 04:42:11 PM
NBA deal brewing

McCollum, Little/Simons and a #1 for Simmons

Ben better hope something happens quick, this ish getting pricey, 6.3 mill to date!

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/fines-suspensions/philadelphia-76ers/point-guard/ (https://www.spotrac.com/nba/fines-suspensions/philadelphia-76ers/point-guard/)
Title: Dr. Michelle Carlson
Post by: chipstern on December 07, 2021, 06:14:44 PM
T.J. McConnell visited Dr. Michelle Carlson of the Hospital for Special Surgery in New York this morning.

I visited Dr. Carlson some years back for a vicarious calcification in my left wrist, the lingering results of a HS football injury to my wrist, botched corrective surgery [bone fusion]; it used to flare up at odd intervals, and I really messed it up in a fight, protecting a young man who worked for me at the HMV retail store from a coked out bully.  The guy cold-cocked me in the face, and as I felt my inner primate coming forth, I heard a voice say, "Turn around Chip, and walk away," which I was prepared to do, when the bully grinned and went into an Ali Shuffle to mock me.  I went primal, and I'm told I threw a left at him, which is funny, as I am surely no grappler/tough guy, at which point this bruiser went Whoa Nellie, NO MAS, and put me in  a headlock.  I couldn't break the head lock so I supplexed him to the floor and while we were down there, I ripped his expensive leather jacket from stem to stern. 

Next day, my wrist went postal, and I had a cortisone shot, which only made things worse on my way to a Workmen's Comp hearing. 

Anyway, my wrist went south on me a number of times until I visited Dr. Carlson, who was much more scientific and proactive in her use of the cortisone, and I suffered no post-treatment angst, and no subsequent flare ups or consequences going on 25-30 years now. 

Seeing the Pacers guard going to Dr. Carlson, put me in mind of a visit to her office, where a number of Knicks players were then patients.  Grateful I had the benefit of her expertise. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 07, 2021, 06:36:24 PM
More reason to work a deal with Indy

They're cooked

But I like the 3-way McCollum angle.

Does Indy value Barrett over Turner?
Title: Interesting!
Post by: carlos123 on December 07, 2021, 07:20:06 PM
Quote from: chamAAcocartero8 on December 07, 2021, 12:14:57 AM
Quote from: chamAcocartero8 on December 06, 2021, 04:30:33 PM

Nope

Think bigger


Or....


ChamAAco quoting ChamAco

- Help Chamaco Cartero! -
(he needs it much more than Andy Parker)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 07, 2021, 10:58:10 PM
Drew Eubanks very nearly became my least favorite NBA player.

Good win. Good mixing of the lineups. Everyone had a little key stretch at least and nobody was given enough rope to hang the team when they were dragging things out of wack.

Nice game by RJ.

This was an in and out and in again game for us for the most part which helped.

Fournier needs to dial in and sharpen up the little things, otherwise no big issues with anyone
Title: Re: Dr. Michelle Carlson
Post by: facilitatorn on December 07, 2021, 11:14:58 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 07, 2021, 06:14:44 PM
T.J. McConnell visited Dr. Michelle Carlson of the Hospital for Special Surgery in New York this morning.

I visited Dr. Carlson some years back for a vicarious calcification in my left wrist, the lingering results of a HS football injury to my wrist, botched corrective surgery [bone fusion]; it used to flare up at odd intervals, and I really messed it up in a fight, protecting a young man who worked for me at the HMV retail store from a coked out bully.  The guy cold-cocked me in the face, and as I felt my inner primate coming forth, I heard a voice say, "Turn around Chip, and walk away," which I was preared to do, when the bully grinned and went into an Ali Shuffle to mock me.  I went primal, and I'm told I threw a left at him, which is funny, as I am surely no grappler/tough guy, at which point this bruiser went Whoa Nellie, NO MAS, and put me in  a headlock.  I couldn't break the head lock so I supplexed him to the floor and while we were down there, I ripped his expensive leather jacket from stem to stern. 

Next day, my wrist went postal, and I had a cortisone shot, which only made things worse on my way to a Workmen's Comp hearing. 

Anyway, my wrist went south on me a number of times until I visited Dr. Carlson, who was much more scientific and proactive in her use of the cortisone, and I suffered no post-treatment angst, and no subsequent flare ups or consequences going on 25-30 years now. 

Seeing the Pacers guard going to Dr. Carlson, put me in mind of a visit to her office, where a number of Knicks players were then patients.  Grateful I had the benefit of her expertise.

A brush with greatness.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 07, 2021, 11:52:09 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 07, 2021, 10:58:10 PM
Drew Eubanks very nearly became my least favorite NBA player.

Good win. Good mixing of the lineups. Everyone had a little key stretch at least and nobody was given enough rope to hang the team when they were dragging things out of wack.

Nice game by RJ.

This was an in and out and in again game for us for the most part which helped.

Fournier needs to dial in and sharpen up the little things, otherwise no big issues with anyone

"Julius Randle doesn't make others better."

[COUGH]

15 pts
7 boards
8 assists
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 07, 2021, 11:58:34 PM
Barrett looked ok with the second unit 

Good win

1-1  4 to go
Title: Meanwhile...
Post by: chipstern on December 08, 2021, 12:00:20 AM
Former Spur Luka Samanic named G League Player of the Week after averaging 30.0 points, 12.3 rebounds and 3.0 assists to lead the Westchester Knicks to a 2-1 mark.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 08, 2021, 12:33:43 AM
Quote from: chipstern on December 07, 2021, 11:52:09 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 07, 2021, 10:58:10 PM
Drew Eubanks very nearly became my least favorite NBA player.

Good win. Good mixing of the lineups. Everyone had a little key stretch at least and nobody was given enough rope to hang the team when they were dragging things out of wack.

Nice game by RJ.

This was an in and out and in again game for us for the most part which helped.

Fournier needs to dial in and sharpen up the little things, otherwise no big issues with anyone

"Julius Randle doesn't make others better."

[COUGH]

15 pts
7 boards
8 assists

Against one turnover. He was really hustling up the court with the ball and working hard on defense.
Title: Statistics
Post by: Kam on December 08, 2021, 09:36:21 AM
The Knicks made 18 threes last night while shooting 47.4 percent from deep.

They are now

5 - 0 when they make at least 17 threes

9 - 3 when they shoot 37 percent or higher from deep, and 5 - 0 when they shoot at least 44 percent

3 - 9 when they shoot under 35 percent from deep, and 0 - 4 when they don't make at least 10 threes

Turns out making shots matters. Who knew?
Title: More stats
Post by: Kam on December 08, 2021, 09:45:55 AM
Mitchell Robinson: This was just the fifth time in Knicks history a player had at least eight offensive rebounds in 22 minutes or less.

It was also just the second game in NBA history where a player packed eight offensive boards, three blocks and two steals into so little court time.

The Knicks walked into a building they haven't won in since January of 2014 and never lost control of this game.

After last night, even with all his struggles, RJ Barrett is at 34.7 percent from long range - exactly league average on the season.

After the 12 point win, the Knicks now boast the seventh best road net rating in the league.

The Knicks are outscoring teams away from home by 3.9 points per 100 possessions, a number that falls short of only the Warriors, Jazz, Nets, Bulls, Cavs, and Suns.

Perhaps if they clean up their 28th ranked negative 4.5 net rating in MSG, they might actually be onto something.
Title: Re: More stats
Post by: Kam on December 08, 2021, 09:53:07 AM
Quote from: Kam on December 08, 2021, 09:45:55 AM
Mitchell Robinson: This was just the fifth time in Knicks history a player had at least eight offensive rebounds in 22 minutes or less.

It was also just the second game in NBA history where a player packed eight offensive boards, three blocks and two steals into so little court time.


It is important to note who Mitch was playing with.

Three of Mitch's offensive rebounds, all of which resulted in put-back points, came off Derrick Rose drives.

Rose's ability to put pressure on the rim and attract the attention of the big on defense opened up things for Mitch down low in a significant way.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 08, 2021, 10:14:46 AM
Turns out making shots matters. Who knew?


heh

Barrett making shots and Knicks winning even made Julius (5-12) look awesome.

Knicks had lost three straight - with his numbers BETTER in those three.  But we lost, so he was a stiff, holding us back, etc.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 08, 2021, 10:56:24 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 08, 2021, 10:14:46 AM
Turns out making shots matters. Who knew?


heh

Barrett making shots and Knicks winning even made Julius (5-12) look awesome.

Knicks had lost three straight - with his numbers BETTER in those three.  But we lost, so he was a stiff, holding us back, etc.

Well, there is the teeny tiny matter of the way he played the game, as opposed to his numbers.

Clearly focused on making others better and distributing rather than dribbling smack through four defenders.

So yes, he wasn't the stiff holding us back this time around.


*** that said, still don't love his apparent effort and body language at the beginning of these games, it's like he is so dubious of any plan that doesn't revolve solely around him, but eventually, once we get a lead, he gets more enthused and dives all in
Title: NUTZ
Post by: chipstern on December 08, 2021, 11:31:05 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on December 08, 2021, 10:56:24 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 08, 2021, 10:14:46 AM
Turns out making shots matters. Who knew?


heh

Barrett making shots and Knicks winning even made Julius (5-12) look awesome.

Knicks had lost three straight - with his numbers BETTER in those three.  But we lost, so he was a stiff, holding us back, etc.

Well, there is the teeny tiny matter of the way he played the game, as opposed to his numbers.

Clearly focused on making others better and distributing rather than dribbling smack through four defenders.

So yes, he wasn't the stiff holding us back this time around.


*** that said, still don't love his apparent effort and body language at the beginning of these games, it's like he is so dubious of any plan that doesn't revolve solely around him, but eventually, once we get a lead, he gets more enthused and dives all in

That sir, is a load of crap. 

(https://images.fineartamerica.com/images/artworkimages/mediumlarge/1/red-queen-mark-tonelli.jpg)

Where would Knicks "fans' be without a scapegoat. 

"Off with his head..." 

Title: Distinction
Post by: chipstern on December 08, 2021, 11:43:05 AM
There is a cumulative and qualitative difference between trying to do too damn much, forcing the action, and being selfish. 

Eight assists?  Yeah, one selfish cat.  Amazing how one's perspective chages when sunsuvbitches are ACTUALLY MAKING OPEN SHOTS. 

Fuck y'all, thrice. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 08, 2021, 11:56:11 AM
29 assists is Julius's top 4 game stretch this year

I dont think the minutes - 40/39/35/35 - bother him.
Title: Brings to mind the 3rd best Steph Neologism Ever
Post by: lesterluv on December 08, 2021, 11:56:47 AM
Quote from: chipstern on December 08, 2021, 11:31:05 AM

Where would Knicks "fans' be without a scapegoat. 

"Off with his head..." 

Stephon Marbury: I know I'm used to being the escape goat, but damn, c'mon - when is enough gonna be enough?
Title: Re: Brings to mind the 3rd best Steph Quote Ever
Post by: chipstern on December 08, 2021, 11:59:21 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on December 08, 2021, 11:56:47 AM
Quote from: chipstern on December 08, 2021, 11:31:05 AM

Where would Knicks "fans' be without a scapegoat. 

"Off with his head..." 

Stephon Marbury: I know I'm used to being the escape goat, but damn, c'mon - when is enough gonna be enough?

Bernard King: Only when you've had your annual nutritional requirement of blood. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 08, 2021, 11:59:26 AM
https://www.nba.com/grizzlies/news/zach-randolph-jersey-retirement-ceremony-on-december-11-culminates-week-long-celebration-of-the-grizzlies-legend-211201


Nice.
Title: Stay clear of Memphis that week, Bo, his "posse" might show!
Post by: lesterluv on December 08, 2021, 12:09:47 PM
Yep, week long! Well earned....

Coincidentally, it was Zach who inspired Steph's 2nd best neologism

"we got a beast, we got a younger, youthier player!"
Title: Stolen Moments
Post by: chipstern on December 08, 2021, 12:34:18 PM
(https://beyondthebeat.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/zbo.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 08, 2021, 05:28:48 PM
So sad

Just 80 games with NY and 550+ with Memphis

Zach got us Tim Thomas who got us Larry Hughes who got us Tracy McGrady (while sadly also costing us Jordan Hill)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 08, 2021, 08:55:48 PM
Alan Hahn with the horse crap -

"Knicks loved Duarte but he went early to the Pacers"

Actually Knicks were unwilling to pay the asking price for moving up

Call it a mistake, Hahn.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 08, 2021, 09:51:11 PM
Your ass is overshadowing your face again, Kid.

Your momma says you ugly, Kid. She wants her two dollars.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 08, 2021, 10:17:16 PM
That was a messy game. The kids looked good at the end though, except Knox who really needs a change of scenery.

Changes of scenery and some floating speculation got me thinking of a trade that does not involve Knox.

Randle Kemba and Mitch for Turner and LeVert

It would leave us

Turner Noel Sims
Toppin Gibson Knox
Barrett Fournier Seldon
LeVert Quickley Grimes
Burks Rose McBride

I think it is a better balance in terms of skill and energy to make what Thibs wants to run work.

Sanbonis Mitch Bitaze
Randle Martin Craig
Warren Brissett Washington
Duarte Lamb
Brogdon Walker Wanamaker

If they do not want Mitch long term, they can do a sign and trade next summer.

Title: Trader Fac
Post by: carlos123 on December 09, 2021, 12:41:09 AM
Hey Fac, I usually like your ideas.
It looks like you are a little stressed out, dont know if it is caused by Chamaco-s idiocy or by how bad the Knicks are playing.
U really wanna get rid of King Julius and Mitch?
How about we give Thibs a one month sabbatical for a well deserved rest?

PS. I too loved Duarte-s play. Do not know if he plays this good consistently.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 09, 2021, 03:12:39 AM
Duarte plays this good consistently. He may not hit shots at that rate, but he is a focused, aware, smart player with a lot of energy. He will have plenty of nights like this and has a few already counting tonight.

I think to move Turner the pacers have to get back someone they think is better. Mitch is a step back from Turner at this point though with upside to develop. Randle is overall better than Turner and secured for a further two years. Sabonis and Randle make for an Allstar pairing that is small ball and bully ball at the same time. Mitch and Bitaze give them serious depth against bigs. Just as valuable as Turner, is LeVert. He has a little more confidence, handle, and command than RJ, Burks, or Fournier and is a bit more of a productive player. I have confidence in Sims down the line so having Sims and Turner available as the main bigs makes me feel like we can afford to part with Mitch who is probably going to have weird ass contract negotiation this summer that does not end with the same agent who starts it. I do not place much value on Kemba, but he is a mench and he has shot .412 from three which the league values.

I think we give up more talent on paper but become a faster more flexible team more in line with the direction the league is going.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 09, 2021, 03:18:30 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 09, 2021, 03:12:39 AM
Duarte plays this good consistently. He may not hit shots at that rate, but he is a focused, aware, smart player with a lot of energy. He will have plenty of nights like this and has a few already counting tonight.

I think to move Turner the pacers have to get back someone they think is better. Mitch is a step back from Turner at this point though with upside to develop. Randle is overall better than Turner and secured for a further two years. Sabonis and Randle make for an Allstar pairing that is small ball and bully ball at the same time. Mitch and Bitaze give them serious depth against bigs. Just as valuable as Turner, is LeVert. He has a little more confidence, handle, and command than RJ, Burks, or Fournier and is a bit more of a productive player. I have confidence in Sims down the line so having Sims and Turner available as the main bigs makes me feel like we can afford to part with Mitch who is probably going to have weird ass contract negotiation this summer that does not end with the same agent who starts it. I do not place much value on Kemba, but he is a mench and he has shot .412 from three which the league values.

I think we give up more talent on paper but become a faster more flexible team more in line with the direction the league is going.

Absurd.

There may be deals coming, but this won't be one of them.

Point guard?

Hello.

Turner not a fit with Sabonis, so.lets get Randle?

COUGH
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 09, 2021, 08:08:57 AM
Keep Mitch.  Pay 4-60 extension.

Build!  Work!  No trades!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 09, 2021, 09:19:34 AM
I think to move Turner the pacers have to get back someone they think is better. Mitch is a step back from Turner at this point though with upside to develop. Randle is overall better than Turner and secured for a further two years. Sabonis and Randle make for an Allstar pairing that is small ball and bully ball at the same time. Mitch and Bitaze give them serious depth against bigs. Just as valuable as Turner, is LeVert. He has a little more confidence, handle, and command than RJ, Burks, or Fournier and is a bit more of a productive player. I have confidence in Sims down the line so having Sims and Turner available as the main bigs makes me feel like we can afford to part with Mitch who is probably going to have weird ass contract negotiation this summer that does not end with the same agent who starts it. I do not place much value on Kemba, but he is a mench and he has shot .412 from three which the league values.




Pacers will see if they can build off this win before a final decision is made on a rebuild.

But no - someone as good as Turner isnt necessary - if we are talkingbuilding blocks going back to IND.

Contributory players count.  Sabonis slides over to the 5 fairly easily - thouhg IND should then look to add a defensive five for a few minutes a night entering next season - as Bitadze gets some more tie as well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 09, 2021, 10:45:57 AM
The Knicks defense has not been fixed.
This is the third time in 25 games New York has given up more the 120 points.
They did so seven times in 72 games last year, but the average offense is down about three points per 100 possessions this season.
Their D before the Kemba benching was ranked 19th in the league with a 108.5 rating.
In the five games since Walker left the rotation, they are ranked 29th, giving up 121.8 points per 100 possession.
Its a tiny sample size but also indicative of issues that run far deeper than just an undersized starting point guard.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 09, 2021, 12:45:52 PM
Teams are better

We went over this.
Title: Speaking of R.I.P's...
Post by: lesterluv on December 09, 2021, 02:07:22 PM
this one is massive:

(https://townsquare.media/site/295/files/2021/12/attachment-GettyImages-85850605.jpg?w=980&q=75)

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/robbie-shakespeare-sly-and-robbie-dead-1269024/ (https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/robbie-shakespeare-sly-and-robbie-dead-1269024/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 09, 2021, 02:39:12 PM
Massive indeed.
Title: That dunk was special
Post by: Kam on December 09, 2021, 02:40:31 PM
By the way I just want to carve out a post thanking Obi Toppin for that dunk last night.

I sat there with a dumb smile on my face for a full two minutes afterwards.

Never ever seen a Knick do anything like that in a game.

That was special.

Wish it had come in a win.
Title: Everything Happens In THREES [Save Perhaps The Knicks]
Post by: chipstern on December 09, 2021, 03:12:48 PM
Greg Tate

Barry Harris

Robbie Shakespeare
Title: Re: That dunk was special
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 09, 2021, 04:36:19 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 09, 2021, 02:40:31 PM
By the way I just want to carve out a post thanking Obi Toppin for that dunk last night.

I sat there with a dumb smile on my face for a full two minutes afterwards.

Never ever seen a Knick do anything like that in a game.

That was special.

Wish it had come in a win.

Keeper


Unless......
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 09, 2021, 04:43:16 PM
As trade winds approach, let's look to add a top 40 player - or at least 1-2 from the top 75

Right now we have 5 in the top 100 - but three of them are 90 and below and one is benched

Julius at 44 our best - so all you stand pat guys just please stand down


https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-top-100-player-rankings-for-2021-22-kevin-durant-edges-lebron-james-for-no-1-any-rookies-make-the-cut/
Title: BUT...that dunk was special, but...
Post by: chipstern on December 09, 2021, 04:50:25 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 09, 2021, 02:40:31 PM
By the way I just want to carve out a post thanking Obi Toppin for that dunk last night.

I sat there with a dumb smile on my face for a full two minutes afterwards.

Never ever seen a Knick do anything like that in a game.

That was special.

Wish it had come in a win.

I have been a Toppin booster/enthusiast through thick and thin, through thin and THINNER. 

His motor.

His enthusiasm. 

One of the few Knicks who displays a predilection for CUTTING. 

That jam should have been a booster shot for the Knicks. 

Instead, it seemed to trigger the Pacers. 

He has improved his defense. 

His conditioning and energy give us a burst when he is on the court, getting out in transition.  His confidence and aplomb in playing in the blocks, with his back to the basket, is tantalizing. 

"Give him more minutes."

We are seeing more and more deployment in small ball sets with Julius. 

However, he came out of college with the rep of being more than just a slam dunk highglight reel. 

So far, as a pro, this three point shooting has been mostly dreadful. 

He is 8-41 so far this season. 

RJ stepped up.  I see no reason why Obi cannot.  And no doubt, he is putting in the work. 

How much is due to inconsistent playing time.  How much due to the feel of the new ball? 

In any event, I love Obi, and am enjoying the arc of his growth, but he's got a ways to go. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 09, 2021, 05:02:49 PM
Obi can improve both his D and his jumper by developing a more consistent and stable base by keeping his hips level as he moves. His movement and activity without the ball are giving him shots to destroy the basket, brick wide open threes that he regularly gets wide open for, while creating lanes for others. He is showing both production and development so far. I expect he will keep working and getting better.

I know I just put out a fairly goofball Pacers trade, but I would not mind it if we did nothing or not much at all this trade system, so long as it means putting more time into our youth.
Title: Trade Winds
Post by: chipstern on December 09, 2021, 05:02:54 PM
Not really seeing anything tangible on the horizon. 

The Indiana Fire Sale Narrative seems nonsensical on the face of it. 

Perhaps Turner and Sabonis are not an ideal match, but they sure looked good last night. 

Brogdon and LiVert are gifted combo guards, and Brogdon is particularly enticing, Fantasy Wise.  Very underrated player. 

PS: I am sure that the Knicks went to some lengths to move up for Duarte, but his performance last night went some ways towards explaining why the #19 and #21 + God Knows What Else did not get it done.  He just exudes confidence, with a well rounded, mature, all around game on both sides of the ball. 

PPS: Of course, Grimes and McBride have certainly offered tantalizing hints as to what they might contribute, but Thibs seems unwilling to give them actual factual burn.  Outside of Rose, who a 20-25 minute a night role player at this point in time, we have a dearth of PGs.  Really respect Burks, but he is not a facilitator.  Quickley gives us pace, and his assists are up, but I mean, come on, Thibs.  McBride is a dog.  Let him match up.  Wishful thinking.  Thibs is married to his vets.  We shall see. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 09, 2021, 05:11:57 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 09, 2021, 05:02:49 PM
Obi can improve both his D and his jumper by developing a more consistent and stable base by keeping his hips level as he moves. His movement and activity without the ball are giving him shots to destroy the basket, brick wide open threes that he regularly gets wide open for, while creating lanes for others. He is showing both production and development so far. I expect he will keep working and getting better.

I know I just put out a fairly goofball Pacers trade, but I would not mind it if we did nothing or not much at all this trade system, so long as it means putting more time into our youth.

Hey, I would offer up Kiid to Hamas for a shot at Turner.  I love his game.  Size, shot blocking, rim protection, and THREES?  What's not to like? 

I don't think we have much flex. 

Friendly contracts, but I mean...TAJ? Nerlens?  Burks?  Not much market.  Nerlens cannot stay on the court.  Rose?  A keeper. 

Mitchell?  RJ?

Off the top of my head. 

Would I trade Mitchell for DeAron Fox? 

Yes. 

Would the Kings bite?

Doubt it.  [Nevermind the salary discreprancy] 

RJ.  He's 21.  Yes, he's up and down.  But offloading him would surely come back to bite us. 


 
Title: Free Agent/We Need A STAR Targets
Post by: chipstern on December 09, 2021, 05:21:51 PM
Lavine.

Beal.

OFF THE TABLE. 

Lillard? 

Not buying it. 

McColloum?

Love him, but he's 30, and is not a PG. 

Someone on FACEBOOK opined how we should make a run at Mo Bamba. 

Orlando did not tender him a qualifying offer.  That makes his a restricted FA in the summer of 2022.  And we have no cap space next summer. 

So...

Realistic options?  I haven't heard any.  I say this knowing that Kiid would gladly trade RJ for Jordan Hill.  Duly noted. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 09, 2021, 05:31:44 PM
I know I just put out a fairly goofball Pacers trade, but I would not mind it if we did nothing or not much at all this trade system, so long as it means putting more time into our youth.

To what end?  Which are future top 100 level starters?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 09, 2021, 05:37:11 PM
More likely with Orlando and their center spot that they pay Bamba and deal Wendell Carter's 4-50 deal.  Mo wouldnt be cheap.

Not interested so much in Carter.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 09, 2021, 11:13:12 PM
McColloum?

Love him.

Good.  I could see it happening.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 09, 2021, 11:29:49 PM
I'm good with no trades.   We do seem to be in a good position to make a trade though.  Few teams seem to be in the Turner market.  One of those, Charlotte, may want Turner but doesn't have a readily available pick to trade as we own one of their picks with no set expiry date meaning the Stepien rule comes into play.  They may slide the protection off the pick they owe us in 2022 just so they can deal their 2024 pick for Turner.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 10, 2021, 12:07:33 AM
McCollum and Zeller

for

Knox, Barrett, Gibson and Walker plus a protected #1
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 10, 2021, 11:21:58 AM
Huge win for Rutgers last night.    Biggest win in 40 years?  Ever??

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/watch-rutgers-upsets-no-1-purdue-on-buzzer-beating-3-pointer-by-ron-harper-jr-from-almost-halfcourt/ (https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/watch-rutgers-upsets-no-1-purdue-on-buzzer-beating-3-pointer-by-ron-harper-jr-from-almost-halfcourt/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 10, 2021, 12:19:52 PM
Well, no - they made the Final Four

I see Harper, who is someone's favorite here - was pivotal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 10, 2021, 12:21:14 PM
I love how he leaned back to watch it fly after release..he knew that ball was going in!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 10, 2021, 01:03:03 PM
Suggs-like

Likely does it in practice all the time
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 10, 2021, 04:12:18 PM
Man, what a beautiful moment. I hadn't seen the replay until now.
Title: Earth To Thibs
Post by: chipstern on December 10, 2021, 07:57:17 PM
It's official, Tom

Burns ain't a PG.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 10, 2021, 08:36:23 PM
George or Ken?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 10, 2021, 10:01:28 PM
Jack was funnier than George
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 10, 2021, 10:04:27 PM
Well that was sure ridiculous. Nice moments but many more ugly ones. The team felt like it thought it deserved to lose all game and it did. Shudder. Exhale.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 10, 2021, 10:09:27 PM
Next trade to think about

Kemba, Noel, Fournier, and Knox

for Wall and Christopher or Martin or Tate, Rockets choose one. We may have to throw in a mid-value pick to do it which I would not mind.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 10, 2021, 10:27:39 PM
You cant have Martin or Tate 4 for 1, I dont think
Title: Not what Fac wrote
Post by: carlos123 on December 10, 2021, 11:22:19 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on December 10, 2021, 10:27:39 PM
You cant have Martin or Tate 4 for 1, I dont think

Not what he said.

- Help Chamaco Cartero! -
(he needs it much more than Andy Parker)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 10, 2021, 11:59:49 PM
I see Kids confusion. Wall and one of the cheap useful Rockets for our four guys.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 11, 2021, 12:28:53 AM
Make a case

Why does Houston want any of them?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 11, 2021, 03:12:21 AM
Kemba and Fournier can shoot. Noel and Knox get up the floor quickly. How else are they moving off Wall? Who else would take him?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 11, 2021, 12:02:40 PM
last minute offensive execution was horrid last night, both RJ & Julius looking off Fournier and then failing, RJ's particularly egregious, forcing a one on four and then sending ball sailing harmlessly over the hoop
Title: Huh?
Post by: chipstern on December 11, 2021, 01:38:38 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 10, 2021, 10:09:27 PM
Next trade to think about

Kemba, Noel, Fournier, and Knox

for Wall and Christopher or Martin or Tate, Rockets choose one. We may have to throw in a mid-value pick to do it which I would not mind.

We struck out on a once magisterial PG for two years at 18 million. 

So let's reload and bring back damaged goods on the wrong side of 30 for 100 million

(https://c.tenor.com/-868qEOCyxUAAAAC/jon-stewart-huh.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 11, 2021, 01:57:01 PM
We struck out on a once magisterial PG for two years at 18 million.


We were 10-8 when Kemba started.  5-3 when he played 25 minutes.

2-5 since the benching. 
Title: Off with Thibs head
Post by: carlos123 on December 11, 2021, 02:56:17 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on December 11, 2021, 12:02:40 PM
last minute offensive execution was horrid last night, both RJ & Julius looking off Fournier and then failing, RJ's particularly egregious, forcing a one on four and then sending ball sailing harmlessly over the hoop

They need better coaching.

I want my guy back, forgot his name but he was good, and good for this team. The pre-Thibs interim guy, who is now an assistant coach somewhere, OKC?
Title: Re: Off with Thibs head
Post by: chipstern on December 11, 2021, 05:56:30 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 11, 2021, 02:56:17 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on December 11, 2021, 12:02:40 PM
last minute offensive execution was horrid last night, both RJ & Julius looking off Fournier and then failing, RJ's particularly egregious, forcing a one on four and then sending ball sailing harmlessly over the hoop

They need better coaching.

I want my guy back, forgot his name but he was good, and good for this team. The pre-Thibs interim guy, who is now an assistant coach somewhere, OKC?

Are you out of your fucking mind?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 11, 2021, 06:33:41 PM
Mike Miller. He was pretty good. We miss Woody from last years staff.

Aside from Noel mishandles, which are more or less baked in, there were three consecutive turnovers by Randle at one point when we pulled even, a terrible pass following a great steal by Evan, and five minutes of hot potato to end the game.

No wonder some fans are growing antsy and proposing preposterous trades.
Title: Re: Off with Thibs head
Post by: carlos123 on December 11, 2021, 07:42:47 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 11, 2021, 05:56:30 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 11, 2021, 02:56:17 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on December 11, 2021, 12:02:40 PM
last minute offensive execution was horrid last night, both RJ & Julius looking off Fournier and then failing, RJ's particularly egregious, forcing a one on four and then sending ball sailing harmlessly over the hoop

They need better coaching.

I want my guy back, forgot his name but he was good, and good for this team. The pre-Thibs interim guy, who is now an assistant coach somewhere, OKC?

Are you out of your fucking mind?

I think not.

Just the first one to call Thibs out. I won't be the last.

Wanna join the club?
Title: Miller it is!
Post by: carlos123 on December 11, 2021, 07:58:48 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 11, 2021, 06:33:41 PM
Mike Miller. He was pretty good. We miss Woody from last years staff.

Aside from Noel mishandles, which are more or less baked in, there were three consecutive turnovers by Randle at one point when we pulled even, a terrible pass following a great steal by Evan, and five minutes of hot potato to end the game.

No wonder some fans are growing antsy and proposing preposterous trades.

Thanks Fac.

I forgive you for the preposterous trades you have proposed. Feeling generous today 😊
Title: Re: Off with Thibs head
Post by: chipstern on December 11, 2021, 08:51:11 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 11, 2021, 07:42:47 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 11, 2021, 05:56:30 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 11, 2021, 02:56:17 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on December 11, 2021, 12:02:40 PM
last minute offensive execution was horrid last night, both RJ & Julius looking off Fournier and then failing, RJ's particularly egregious, forcing a one on four and then sending ball sailing harmlessly over the hoop

They need better coaching.

I want my guy back, forgot his name but he was good, and good for this team. The pre-Thibs interim guy, who is now an assistant coach somewhere, OKC?

Are you out of your fucking mind?

I think not.

Just the first one to call Thibs out. I won't be the last.

Wanna join the club?

Pendejo
Title: Re: Off with Thibs head
Post by: carlos123 on December 11, 2021, 10:45:05 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 11, 2021, 08:51:11 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 11, 2021, 07:42:47 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 11, 2021, 05:56:30 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 11, 2021, 02:56:17 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on December 11, 2021, 12:02:40 PM
last minute offensive execution was horrid last night, both RJ & Julius looking off Fournier and then failing, RJ's particularly egregious, forcing a one on four and then sending ball sailing harmlessly over the hoop

They need better coaching.

I want my guy back, forgot his name but he was good, and good for this team. The pre-Thibs interim guy, who is now an assistant coach somewhere, OKC?

Are you out of your fucking mind?

I think not.

Just the first one to call Thibs out. I won't be the last.

Wanna join the club?

Pendejo

TPM
(U need a Mexican friend for translation, maybe Chamaco?)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLXe0jXQbwnraGCcBzLpNcxCxZUM-X8rtQKFKJ19H1iwU7sPC8Tp7wG5RDveZgJNGEf9LdmwRtkntFykoIyBO5jOyYF0eKjD9LUxY3viravKhneZt8plX5lGLNSYA5F--9a1RjnEkHRlmkogpuX9xNzH=w588-h757-no?authuser=0)
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Title: Re: Off with Thibs head
Post by: chipstern on December 12, 2021, 01:39:47 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 11, 2021, 10:45:05 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 11, 2021, 08:51:11 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 11, 2021, 07:42:47 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 11, 2021, 05:56:30 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 11, 2021, 02:56:17 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on December 11, 2021, 12:02:40 PM
last minute offensive execution was horrid last night, both RJ & Julius looking off Fournier and then failing, RJ's particularly egregious, forcing a one on four and then sending ball sailing harmlessly over the hoop

They need better coaching.

I want my guy back, forgot his name but he was good, and good for this team. The pre-Thibs interim guy, who is now an assistant coach somewhere, OKC?

Are you out of your fucking mind?

I think not.

Just the first one to call Thibs out. I won't be the last.

Wanna join the club?

Pendejo

TPM
(U need a Mexican friend for translation, maybe Chamaco?)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLXe0jXQbwnraGCcBzLpNcxCxZUM-X8rtQKFKJ19H1iwU7sPC8Tp7wG5RDveZgJNGEf9LdmwRtkntFykoIyBO5jOyYF0eKjD9LUxY3viravKhneZt8plX5lGLNSYA5F--9a1RjnEkHRlmkogpuX9xNzH=w588-h757-no?authuser=0)

Fair enough. 

SCHMUCK
Title: Re: Off with Thibs head
Post by: carlos123 on December 12, 2021, 01:44:42 AM
Quote from: chipstern on December 12, 2021, 01:39:47 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 11, 2021, 10:45:05 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 11, 2021, 08:51:11 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 11, 2021, 07:42:47 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 11, 2021, 05:56:30 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 11, 2021, 02:56:17 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on December 11, 2021, 12:02:40 PM
last minute offensive execution was horrid last night, both RJ & Julius looking off Fournier and then failing, RJ's particularly egregious, forcing a one on four and then sending ball sailing harmlessly over the hoop

They need better coaching.

I want my guy back, forgot his name but he was good, and good for this team. The pre-Thibs interim guy, who is now an assistant coach somewhere, OKC?

Are you out of your fucking mind?

I think not.

Just the first one to call Thibs out. I won't be the last.

Wanna join the club?

Pendejo

TPM
(U need a Mexican friend for translation, maybe Chamaco?)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLXe0jXQbwnraGCcBzLpNcxCxZUM-X8rtQKFKJ19H1iwU7sPC8Tp7wG5RDveZgJNGEf9LdmwRtkntFykoIyBO5jOyYF0eKjD9LUxY3viravKhneZt8plX5lGLNSYA5F--9a1RjnEkHRlmkogpuX9xNzH=w588-h757-no?authuser=0)

Fair enough. 

SCHMUCK

You too

PUTZ

You dont know your kop from your tuches. U think I am a goy, huh?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 12, 2021, 12:01:49 PM
Program note


Noon start today for some reason
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 12, 2021, 12:07:22 PM
Barrett, Toppin, Burks out.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 12, 2021, 12:12:43 PM
Grimes starts!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 12, 2021, 01:32:01 PM
Quote from: elephant on December 12, 2021, 12:12:43 PM
Grimes starts!

Un
Fucking
Conscious
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 12, 2021, 02:05:28 PM
A few minutes left in this (pretty miserable) game. Knox hits a couple of threes. Bucks call a timeout.

Kemba Walker first off the bench smiling and clapping to encourage Knox.

Impressive.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 12, 2021, 02:16:24 PM
Earlier in the fall, I made the innocuous comment that Julius is not playing consistently well. It seemed obvious when you watch the games.

The eminent Dr. Statistics brandished a series of numbers to indicate how weak my opinion was.

Now the problem is undeniable. And it's big. What the fuck is going on with Randall?

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 12, 2021, 02:23:37 PM
Quote from: elephant on December 12, 2021, 02:16:24 PM
Earlier in the fall, I made the innocuous comment that Julius is not playing consistently well. It seemed obvious when you watch the games.

The eminent Dr. Statistics brandished a series of numbers to indicate how weak my opinion was.

Now the problem is undeniable. And it's big. What the fuck is going on with Randall?

Over thinking.

Betwixt and  between.

7 TOs

Indecisive.

Just watched him in the paint.  Midrange shot at top.of the key, you could see him THINKING.  Turned down.the shot, trying to get a better one.  Turnover.

Should I be aggressive?

Am I being too aggressive?

Dominate?

Defer?

Grimes and Knox ready when their daylight came.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 12, 2021, 04:06:54 PM
Grimes more so than Knox, but yes.

I
Title: Opportunity Knocks/Knicks, Part 3
Post by: chipstern on December 12, 2021, 07:34:08 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 12, 2021, 04:06:54 PM
Grimes more so than Knox, but yes.

I

Missing Obi, RJ and Burks forced Thibs hand. 

Be interesting to see if he simply defaults to those farther up in the food chain.   

JULIUS?

Baffling. 

But I don't believe in kicking a man when he is down.

Am I suggesting he is beyond criticism? 

NONE OF THESE KNICKS is beyond criticism. 

But I am TROUBLED by how Knicks fans and the media have been piling on. 

RJ had a horrific run, then pulled out of a power dive. 

I trust JR will do likewise. 

Oh, and as per Senor Carlos, he of the wit that will not quit...

I, too, have issues with Thibs, no bout adoubt it. 

His offense seems rather ISO heavy to me, and eschews long honored Knicks trads of cutters, moving without the ball, motion...or so it seems.

So again, no one above criticism, but the notion that having led us to the playoffs for the first time since, what, 2013, and midst a bad stretch, someone who is not certifiably insane, would float the idea of SHITCANNING him and replacing him with our ex-interim coach, a career assistant so vanilla that Senor Carlos could not even summon his name....well, it made my little head hurt.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 12, 2021, 08:02:27 PM
Jules has actually looked decent as the roll man in P&R.
Title: Roller Coaster
Post by: chipstern on December 12, 2021, 08:18:57 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 12, 2021, 08:02:27 PM
Jules has actually looked decent as the roll man in P&R.

JR is on a roller coaster. 

So are Walker, Fournier, RJ, Burks, Robinson, Noel. 

Our ANCHOR, our best player, is DERRICK ROSE. 

On the upswing are Quickley, Toppin, Grimes, Sims...even Knox. All have made progress forward.  McBride might, too, if given some floor time. 

Thibs is stubborn, in his way. 

And when I think of getting minutes for Grimes, Knox, McBride and Sims, in think of how Thibs could parse out those minutes from RJ, Burks/Fournier, Obi, IQ and Obi. 

Someone is going to have to sit? 

Thibs put Walker in the corner on time out? 

Anyone else might be looking to stay after school? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 12, 2021, 08:45:57 PM
Is Grimes the equal of Duarte?

How the hell will we know?
Title: Poor Chip, I don't wanna hurt your head
Post by: carlos123 on December 12, 2021, 09:25:12 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 12, 2021, 07:34:08 PM

Missing Obi, RJ and Burks forced Thibs hand. 

Be interesting to see if he simply defaults to those farther up in the food chain.   

JULIUS?

Baffling. 

But I don't believe in kicking a man when he is down.

Am I suggesting he is beyond criticism? 

NONE OF THESE KNICKS is beyond criticism. 

But I am TROUBLED by how Knicks fans and the media have been piling on. 

RJ had a horrific run, then pulled out of a power dive. 

I trust JR will do likewise. 

Oh, and as per Senor Carlos, he of the wit that will not quit...

I, too, have issues with Thibs, no bout adoubt it. 

His offense seems rather ISO heavy to me, and eschews long honored Knicks trads of cutters, moving without the ball, motion...or so it seems.

So again, no one above criticism, but the notion that having led us to the playoffs for the first time since, what, 2013, and midst a bad stretch, someone who is not certifiably insane, would float the idea of SHITCANNING him and replacing him with our ex-interim coach, a career assistant so vanilla that Senor Carlos could not even summon his name....well, it made my little head hurt.

Thankfully, Fac came to the rescue: MIKE MILLER!!!

Chip, I really, really do not wanna hurt your head. But I really, really do not like Thibs rotations, play calling, offensive planning (nonexistent), minutes distribution and lack of opportunities for our young contingent, except when circumstances force his hand, such as today. At least last year we had a really tough defense, but that too seems to have disappeared.

That being said, I agree with you re. King Julius. Knicks are lucky to have him, fans piling on him are all stupid shitheads and I hope we keep him for a very long time. Now, I find Thibs decision to send Kemba to oblivion despicable and shortsighted.
Title: Kemba
Post by: chipstern on December 12, 2021, 10:01:41 PM
Agree with you. 

Kemba has issues, but THE Team HAD ISSUES. 

Still has them. 

I wouldn't mind seeing Grimes get some run with Kemba. 

IQ is currently getting Kemba's minutes. 

And some of Fournier's.

Again. 

We've seen Grimes light it up. 

We've seem Sims light it up. 

We HAVE SEEN Naught But GarBarge Time From McBride.  Who, along with SamA-KNICK has been tearing it up in Westchester. 

I SHOULD LIKE VERY MUCH TO SEE McBride and IQ get some of Rose's minutes, much as I would like to see Grimes get some of Fournier, Burks and RJ's. 

Thibs has his process, so I am NOT HOLDING MY BREATH. 

Then again, he fast tracked IQ and Obi. 

We shall see. 

But I see us jousting just to get to .500% over the stretch between now and New Years

Tue, Dec 14   
vs
Golden State

Thu, Dec 16   
@
Houston

Sat, Dec 18   
@
Boston

Tue, Dec 21   
vs
Detroit

Thu, Dec 23   
vs

Sat, Dec 25   
vs
Atlanta

Tue, Dec 28   
@
Minnesota
Minnesota

Wed, Dec 29   
@
Detroit

Fri, Dec 31   
@
Oklahoma City

Sun, Jan 2   
@
Toronto
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 12, 2021, 10:09:54 PM
Our ANCHOR, our best player, is DERRICK ROSE.


This dick sucking pops up every time Derrick has a good game or 2.

A true professional - and an incredibly hard worker and solid teammate, no doubt

Fact is he has been sadly inconsistent
Title: dick sucking
Post by: carlos123 on December 12, 2021, 10:42:22 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on December 12, 2021, 10:09:54 PM
Our ANCHOR, our best player, is DERRICK ROSE.


This dick sucking pops up every time Derrick has a good game or 2.


Hey, Chamaco, we dont really care one way or another what your sexual preferences are.

This forum is about basketball and Knicks. Your friend BoZ doesnt approve of alternative uses. Like he says, you may wanna go to the politics forum.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 13, 2021, 07:18:08 AM
Grimes was great. i only saw the 1st half so far.
But i see Thibs left him out there a comical 40 mins and his turnovers mounted.

I lamented our rooks being buried behind journeyman vets.  I'd much rather watch Grimes develop than Burks/Fournier bang in some shots and tune out at times.  Grimes already a better defender than either of them.
Jrue was going right at (and around) Fournier. 

Playing without a starting PG is worse than starting Kemba or Elf.  Start Rose or IQ or even McBride.

Otherwise was surprised how many empty seats there were at the SA and TOR game.  Knix not much of a draw i guess.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 13, 2021, 07:44:50 AM
Knicks 1-6 minus Kemba (after THE DECISION).  3 of the losses by 2. 3 and 4 points

But have we had our full complement of players for long stretches?

I look for it to turn around a bit after this rough stretch of competition - maybe get a 4-5 win run in there soon.  Burks starting or not (Alec was not there yesterday of course).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 13, 2021, 07:50:20 AM
Bears watching that Charlotte (15-13) is tied for thirteenth best record and will as of now keep their pick for 2022 (would be number 17 or 18)

If they hop to 11 we get the pick at 19.  A bit of a longshot, though guys like Stern see this as such a huge asset.  (Top 18 protected in '22, top 16 in '23, top 14 in '24)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 13, 2021, 08:46:58 AM
Charlotte deal was about getting a trade asset to use in future deals rather than another young player who would need time to develop. 

As such, having that asset is better than not having it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 13, 2021, 09:29:11 AM
Burks starting at Point is nonsense.
He's had trouble bringing the ball up under pressure.
Both Spurs and Raps picked him up at midcourt or earlier and hounded Burks dribble.  Result was he was passing the ball 35' out after a fair amount of time had run off, and Knix were getting into their sets late.  Lotta shots in the last few secs of the shotclock.  It was like having Franc at PG.

One play DeJounte harassed Burks in the backcourt and then when Burks saw a double coming near midcourt, he froze and lost the ball in the backcourt, Randle retrieved but was an 8 sec violation.

Otherwise, Rose has indeed been our best player all year.  He had a few uncharacteristic low energy games lately, but bounced back v. TOR.  Seems to be getting lots of deflections, and can get in the paint at will which unlocks lots of offensive options.  Gets timely buckets and stabilizes the Knix.
Title: Friends don't let friends post off box scores when they haven't seen actual play
Post by: lesterluv on December 13, 2021, 10:22:44 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 13, 2021, 07:18:08 AM
Grimes was great. i only saw the 1st half so far.
But i see Thibs left him out there a comical 40 mins and his turnovers mounted.

You've got to kick the habit, really.

Grimes was pura candela. Hottest player on the floor. Only thing keeping us remotely in it. Of course he eventually cooled against the defending champs, but the only thing comical is the comment, lol.

** Personally, I would have pulled him after that failed heat check, let him recalibrate for a breath or two, and thrown him right back out there, so 38-39 minutes? but not going to micromanage.

*** and I'm going to toss a bone to Thibs, who I certainly have plenty of issues with, but when you see rookies come off very limited minutes for a first start and just light things up against one the best defensive units in the league, maybe part of the reason is that Thibs has been developing them extremely well.....

Title: We made a mistake
Post by: Kam on December 13, 2021, 12:19:43 PM
The Knicks have roughly the same record as last year.  The first difference is last year's team got to labor in obscurity with no expectations and roughly the same number of fans in attendance.  The Knicks took a lot of teams by surprise by just playing harder and also got historically lucky holding opponent's to a lower than average 3pt shooting while themselves (especially Randle) hitting big shot after big shot in games.   A generous fan would call that luck the residue of a design that featured defense-first players around Julius and RJ and Julius becoming a bonafied superstar.

Everything is different this year.   The Knicks aren't playing harder than other teams. They're not surprising other teams.  They're not even holding home court.  Obscure players on opposing teams nuke them every other night from deep, and the boos are beginning to cascade down from the garden rafters while the bell cows are shooting more blanks than the actors on the set of Rust.   Randle went from legit to quit.  Did you see his body language yesterday?  Inexcusable.

The mistake in the Subject line doesn't refer to the Knicks.  It refers to us.  We allowed our expectations to be swayed by the 16-4 finish to the season and the undefeated preseason.  Neglecting that 5 game round one ouster and the 25 and 27 record the team had last year.

We are that 25 and 27 team still.   

We subbed some defense for some offense.   But more or less on a talent level we haven't become greater than the sum of our parts save for that 5-1 stretch (built on unsustainable shooting percentages) to begin the year.  We are basically the same team with more or less the same questions surrounding Randle, RJ, Mitch, and the new starters except with less defined roles and continuity.

This team is going to have to go through a similar growth phase to what it managed last season after the trade for DRose.   Last year's team began to grow from that trade and the tree bore some late season fruit.    And that is just to once again be a middling eastern playoff team and nothing more.   The "improvement" over last year is/was a mirage.  Looked good on paper but ... we have to admit failure when we see it and do something about it.

We don't necessarily need a trade.   But we need change.   Kemba in/Fournier out?   Mitch and Noel to the injured list so Sims and Taj can bring the health and hustle?   Randle to see a sports psychiatrist to work on his pressure free throws?   Pick an idea and try it.   We are looking for answers.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 13, 2021, 02:53:40 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 13, 2021, 09:29:11 AM
Burks starting at Point is nonsense.
He's had trouble bringing the ball up under pressure.
Both Spurs and Raps picked him up at midcourt or earlier and hounded Burks dribble.  Result was he was passing the ball 35' out after a fair amount of time had run off, and Knix were getting into their sets late.  Lotta shots in the last few secs of the shotclock.  It was like having Franc at PG.

One play DeJounte harassed Burks in the backcourt and then when Burks saw a double coming near midcourt, he froze and lost the ball in the backcourt, Randle retrieved but was an 8 sec violation.

Otherwise, Rose has indeed been our best player all year.  He had a few uncharacteristic low energy games lately, but bounced back v. TOR.  Seems to be getting lots of deflections, and can get in the paint at will which unlocks lots of offensive options.  Gets timely buckets and stabilizes the Knix.

We shot poorly

You re all want to put this on Burks handle?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 13, 2021, 02:57:12 PM
Kam

I agree

I like the Kemba back idea.  My initial move was Burks starting but for Barrett.  And RJ looks good with second unit

Thus


Problem?  Thins will be stubborn with his brilliant Kemba idea

He could still be right.  We shall see
Walker Fournier Burks Rand le Noel
Title: Money Talks & BS Walks
Post by: chipstern on December 13, 2021, 07:34:53 PM
As December 15 beckons, the blogosphere is awash with reports that....

WAIT FOR IT

The Knicks have interest in Ben Simmons

[Cough]

Title: Re: Money Talks & BS Walks
Post by: chipstern on December 13, 2021, 07:51:46 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 13, 2021, 07:34:53 PM
As December 15 beckons, the blogosphere is awash with reports that....

WAIT FOR IT

The Knicks have interest in Ben Simmons

[Cough]

Assuming BoD & Facil, our reigning Trader Vics have family commitments, and that Kiid is too busy sucking Laura Ingram's dick....just for giggles....

Kemba Walker
Evan Fournier
Kevin Knox

Charlotte's 2022 #1 Pick [presently does not convey to Knicks given Hornets pick inside top 18]
Dallas' 2023 #1 Pick [conveyance based on TOP 10 protection]
New York's 2024 #1 pick

Some Second Rounders

Doubt this would get it done...not sure if Knicks are TRULY interested, though Simmons being an asshole notwithstanding, he is an asshole who plays top tier Defense and can lead the break...

Anyway...On WEDNESDAY, the 15th, trades can take place. 

Blogosphere rumors would hold that the likes of Buddy Hield, Marvin Bagley, Myles Turner and Sabonis The Younger are up for grabs. 

Given that we are in a stretch where the team is struggling, and Senor Carlos is willing to shit can Thibs in favor of a bowl of Cream Of Wheat, well....

LET THE MASTURBATION BEGIN

Title: Knicks Draft Assets Through 2029
Post by: chipstern on December 13, 2021, 07:53:49 PM
https://www.prosportstransactions.com/basketball/DraftTrades/Future/Knicks.htm (https://www.prosportstransactions.com/basketball/DraftTrades/Future/Knicks.htm)

Reposting for the Trader Vics amongst us. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 13, 2021, 08:11:03 PM
I have no opinion on a Simmons deal

We just dont have the goods to offer
Title: PLEASE NOOOOOOOO!!!!
Post by: carlos123 on December 13, 2021, 09:01:49 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 13, 2021, 07:51:46 PM

Given that we are in a stretch where the team is struggling, and Senor Carlos is willing to shit can Thibs in favor of a bowl of Cream Of Wheat, well....

LET THE MASTURBATION BEGIN

carlos is willing to shitcan Thibs in favor of MIKE MILLER, not a bowl of Cream of wheat.

But... PLEASE, PLEASE, NO BEN SIMMONS on my team.

PLEASE SAY IT AIN'T SO!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 13, 2021, 09:22:42 PM
Jordan Schultz  Talen Horton-Tucker has become a trade target of as many as seven teams, league sources say. It will take a lot to get him though, I am told. Lakers, who really value THT, are hesitant. He just turned 21 and is averaging a career best 11 PPG, 5 RPG and 3 assists   via Twitter Schultz_Report


Stern, what's NY's offer?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 13, 2021, 09:24:54 PM
One source said the Kings are still shopping a package including Buddy Hield and Marvin Bagley III in hopes of getting a good player in return. Sources told The Bee over the summer the Kings had expressed interest in the Philadelphia 76ers Ben Simmons and Toronto Raptors Pascal Siakam  via Sacramento Bee


I'm in.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 13, 2021, 10:53:17 PM
Grimes had way too much on his plate and started to get beat regularly in the 4Q on D, and started chucking up airballs.  Far too many minutes.

How is THT better than RJB.  RJ is solid on both ends.  THT a better slasher/driver, but also gets out of control.  And THT's defense is iffy for now.  Foul prone and takes bad angles at times.  Improving.

You want Simmons and a deal PHI might accept.
Try Rose who would steady them and make them less reliant on pup Maxey.
Add in ObiT so they'd have a backup PF.
Rose + ObiT + Noel?
Rose + ObiT + Fournier
Something like that.
Gotta give to get.
Simmons would be our starting PG, with Kemba/IQ the backup.
I'm not excited about moving Rose, but hard to see the Knix in the convo without including DRose.  Kemba won't cut it.
Doubt Knix in the Simmons pool.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 13, 2021, 11:05:37 PM
So we agree...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 13, 2021, 11:12:40 PM
THT over RJ in

assists, steals and blocks per 36

Isnt close.

No biggee.  I wasnt comparing them, but you asked.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 13, 2021, 11:19:11 PM
RJB a much better defender
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 13, 2021, 11:22:47 PM
A better player

He ought to be.

Sure would love to see a progression.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 14, 2021, 08:05:26 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 13, 2021, 10:53:17 PM
Grimes ... Far too many minutes.

Not too many for me.
Not too many for Thibs.
Not too many for his teamates.
Not too many for the crowd at MSG.

Just too many for Bo.
The only thing I can think is Grimes must be too black for you...your age old problem flaring up again.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 14, 2021, 08:33:50 AM
Heh

Surely that isnt it with Bo, less.

Diddley can just be overcritical.

Here - on a night where he was hot and we were short-handed - the minutes made sense - especially if Thibs was looking for ways to get a guy who has looked great in practices some bigger minutes.

Bo knows his shit - but seeing big picture is not always his strong suit.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 14, 2021, 09:49:56 AM
lol, maybe you're right...here's a big picture:

(https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2021/12/12/PMCA/fb1b4829-d13c-4dff-947a-24af755b1c7e-Rockets_31.jpg?width=660&height=483&fit=crop&format=pjpg&auto=webp)

https://www.commercialappeal.com/story/sports/columnists/mark-giannotto/2021/12/10/zach-randolph-memphis-grizzlies-jersey-retirement-fedexforum-z-bo-san-antonio-spurs-blake-griffin/8859601002/ (https://www.commercialappeal.com/story/sports/columnists/mark-giannotto/2021/12/10/zach-randolph-memphis-grizzlies-jersey-retirement-fedexforum-z-bo-san-antonio-spurs-blake-griffin/8859601002/)

https://www.commercialappeal.com/story/sports/columnists/mark-giannotto/2021/12/12/zach-randolph-jersey-retirement-memphis-grizzlies-marc-gasol-houston-rockets/8859694002/ (https://www.commercialappeal.com/story/sports/columnists/mark-giannotto/2021/12/12/zach-randolph-jersey-retirement-memphis-grizzlies-marc-gasol-houston-rockets/8859694002/)

https://twitter.com/memgrizz/status/1469899016951500800 (https://twitter.com/memgrizz/status/1469899016951500800)

Title: What he richly deserved - in full!
Post by: lesterluv on December 14, 2021, 09:51:48 AM
You gave to this community.
You gave to people that needed to be uplifted.
And you did it with a happy heart.
Zach...it is going to be all love tonight!


https://youtu.be/nHeg1foVXzw (https://youtu.be/nHeg1foVXzw)

Z-Bo, Too Black, Too Strong, For Chi-Bo!
Title: In any case....
Post by: lesterluv on December 14, 2021, 12:04:53 PM
...Bo needn't worry for awhile about overplaying our newest Bad Black Man:

https://therookiewire.usatoday.com/2021/12/14/knicks-quentin-grimes-health-and-safety-protocols/ (https://therookiewire.usatoday.com/2021/12/14/knicks-quentin-grimes-health-and-safety-protocols/)
Title: Re: In any case....
Post by: elephant on December 14, 2021, 12:12:47 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on December 14, 2021, 12:04:53 PM
...Bo needn't worry for awhile about overplaying our newest Bad Black Man:

https://therookiewire.usatoday.com/2021/12/14/knicks-quentin-grimes-health-and-safety-protocols/ (https://therookiewire.usatoday.com/2021/12/14/knicks-quentin-grimes-health-and-safety-protocols/)

goddammit
Title: and it gets even worse....
Post by: lesterluv on December 14, 2021, 12:18:02 PM
https://www.audacy.com/wfan/sports/knicks/report-walt-frazier-enters-health-and-safety-protocols (https://www.audacy.com/wfan/sports/knicks/report-walt-frazier-enters-health-and-safety-protocols)

... this pandemic has officially crossed the line!
Title: Re: and it gets even worse....
Post by: chipstern on December 14, 2021, 12:49:12 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on December 14, 2021, 12:18:02 PM
https://www.audacy.com/wfan/sports/knicks/report-walt-frazier-enters-health-and-safety-protocols (https://www.audacy.com/wfan/sports/knicks/report-walt-frazier-enters-health-and-safety-protocols)

... this pandemic has officially crossed the line!

Obi

RJ

Quentin

Wonder if McBride finally gets some burn.

PS: Dawg,  Bo was not just a Zach Randolph booster, but a Jamal  Crawford enthusiast as well.  Don't recall if he issued a phatwah on David Lee...one of the truly bad trades in Knicks history.  Oh, right, his defense.  Never mind his 20-10 a night.  Let's dump him for three assets.  A gimp. An all D/no O big with a heart condition.  And an alleged stretch 4 who washed out. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 14, 2021, 01:07:20 PM
Wonder if we get CANCELLED  like the Bulls.

If the entire league takes a break.

Couldn't hurt.
Title: Re: Recurrent... ... ... HYDROXYCHLOROQUINE
Post by: carlos123 on December 14, 2021, 02:51:42 PM
Quote from: alezuwohow on December 14, 2021, 01:11:55 PM
... ... ...how-to-order-hydroxychloroquine-no-prescription... ... ............................. .....

A question:

Premises:
1) Chamaco already has two personalities. ChamAco Cartero and ChamAAco Cartero.
2) Evidently, he would be willing to try and sell hydroxychloroquine for his master.
3) This spammer always pops up just after a post from either of the two Chamacos.

Thus the question: Does he now have a third personality, namely general spammer, in this case alezuwohow?
Title: Mr. heh (and lol) strikes YET again #43,836
Post by: carlos123 on December 14, 2021, 02:59:00 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on December 14, 2021, 08:33:50 AM
Heh

Surely that isnt it with Bo, less.

I think by less he means Les, but who knows? Chamaco can be very mysterious.

Quote from: chamacocartero8 on December 14, 2021, 01:07:20 PM
Wonder if we get CANCELLED  like the Bulls.


At least, Chamaco is NOT CANCELLED by me. He's very worried about 'CANCEL CULTURE', and thus very happy that I write about him. Ain't you, Chamaco?
Title: Damn!!!
Post by: carlos123 on December 14, 2021, 03:03:30 PM
Quote from: elephant on December 14, 2021, 12:12:47 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on December 14, 2021, 12:04:53 PM
...Bo needn't worry for awhile about overplaying our newest Bad Black Man:

https://therookiewire.usatoday.com/2021/12/14/knicks-quentin-grimes-health-and-safety-protocols/ (https://therookiewire.usatoday.com/2021/12/14/knicks-quentin-grimes-health-and-safety-protocols/)

goddammit

GODDAMMIT INDEED! Instant fan favorite and our only 3 pt. threat right now, and gone after one game.

DAMN!!!
Title: McBride
Post by: chipstern on December 14, 2021, 08:23:49 PM
All we are saying
Is give Deuce a chance

Two straight threes

I think I'm getting verklempt.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 14, 2021, 08:53:58 PM
Nice win if we can get it
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 14, 2021, 09:31:45 PM
Burks Rand le Quickley 12 for 41

Bring back Van Gundy as shooting coach.  10 mil might do it
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 14, 2021, 10:12:41 PM
Evan Fournier is not just garbage. Somehow he is transmitting his bad habits to JR.

Kids look good though. That is nice.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 14, 2021, 10:43:03 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 14, 2021, 10:12:41 PM
Evan Fournier is not just garbage. Somehow he is transmitting his bad habits to JR.

Kids look good though. That is nice.

What game were you watching?

Julius scored what, 31?

Fournier scored what, 2?

Evan is spinning out of Earth orbit.

Baffling.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 14, 2021, 10:56:03 PM
Julius evidently had a solid 4th Q.

McBride played the whole quarter.  Nice that he got the look.  Not nice that GS had 7 3s in the 4th.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 14, 2021, 11:01:28 PM
What game were you watching?


He said Evan was not JUST garbage - not that Evan is not garbage

Point was that it affected Randle.  I cant get behind that - but wanted to point our your MISREAD, Stern.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 14, 2021, 11:08:04 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 14, 2021, 10:43:03 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 14, 2021, 10:12:41 PM
Evan Fournier is not just garbage. Somehow he is transmitting his bad habits to JR.

Kids look good though. That is nice.

What game were you watching?

Julius scored what, 32?

Fournier scored what, 2?

Evan is spinning out of Earth orbit.

Baffling.

Defensive lapses and TO
Title: Why oh why
Post by: carlos123 on December 14, 2021, 11:17:45 PM
Why did not we get Patty Mills and let him go to the fuckin Nyets instead?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 14, 2021, 11:26:12 PM
I know that the Warriors might be the best team in the NBA, but the contrast in offensive schemes and movements felt....disheartening.

So many good passes and easy baskets on their end. Just a lot of flow.
Title: Re: Why oh why
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 15, 2021, 12:53:26 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 14, 2021, 11:17:45 PM
Why did not we get Patty Mills and let him go to the fuckin Nyets instead?


heh

Dunno...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 15, 2021, 01:18:55 AM
FourEva has been slumping.
Single digits and low FG% last 5 games.
Enigmatic player.
I was trying to explain this in the off-season, that he's a guy who looks the part but tunes out at times, goes silent.  Makes mistakes when he tries to do too much.  Not so easy to pin down, but I think he's just not a good team player for whatever reason (partly defensive lapses).  His focus just seems to ebb and flow.

I'd like to see Fournier cut and drive more.  Could use to get a FT now and then.  Easy points and a good way for a shooter to get in rhythm.  At least with our vet G's slumping, and guys pandemically disqualified, we're starting to get some run for our rooks.

The Kemba-Fournier additions haven't exactly panned out thus far.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 15, 2021, 02:01:39 AM
Randle scored 11 straight Knick points to keep the Knix semi-attached from around the 4 to 2 minute mark left in the the 4Q.  A pair of 3's, a pair of FT's and 3 more.

Thibs minute management has been questionable all season.  I was amused when Burks became a starter, which meant instantly playing 40 mins a night.  We've seen nights where Randle and Mitch have looked exhausted out there. There was a game recently where Mitch struggled to change ends and the other team had a 5-on-4 simply because Mitch was fatigued.  Clyde, "Where's Mitch?"

Things getting shaky in the NBA.   Lots of players sidelined due to CV testing. Starting to limp towards XMas.

A boon for marginal NBAers such as Kessler Edwards who just put up 17 & 10 with 2 steals while absorbing 44 mins for a very shorthanded BKY team.

Concern that the Netizens are testing positive 8-10 days after playing the Bulls who were mostly infected at the time. 

NBA should probably restrict/eliminate post-game team mixing for starters.
Title: Baffling
Post by: chipstern on December 15, 2021, 05:50:01 AM
As bad as we were shooting, we managed to hold our own, until the Warriors top tier discipline and execution put us away. 

Their ball movement, back cuts, pick and roll, are beautifully executed and a wonder to behold, even as a whuppin' is being administered. They create so many easy shots.  Beautiful execution. 

And once again, we are permitting a rain of threes to befall us.  Our customary third quarter breakdown. 

Our puppies McBride and Knox made a good case for themselves in 20 minues apiece, nevertheless, Thibs leaned on Burks and Rose to the tune of 34 and 39 minutes.  THIS is concerning. 

Julius was more decisive, which was encourating.  Leadership?  Making his teammates better?  Fournier and Burks were a combined 5-20.  One could point to Draymond Green as an archetype.  Fair enough, but Julius doesn't have Steph Curry to pass to. 

DECEMBER 15:  One has to wonder why Kemba, his shortcomings notwithstanding, got no burn?  Perhaps there is a trade on the table, and they are holding him out, hesitant to get him injured.  On the right team he could be an asset.  Fournier baffles me.  Passive on both sides of the ball.  Five shots, four threes.  One basket.  WTF?  Where are his back cuts and drives to the hoop, all that nice two man game he showed early on with JR.  One thing is your jumper ain't falling, but his passivity is unsettling.  Meanwhile we are piling on the minutes to Burks and Fournier, while "showcasing" Knox, who gives every indication of a possible blossoming, alas, for another team.  SIGH.  That's our Knicks.  Let's see if Scott Perry can pull a rabbit out his hat.  Another 2-4 weeks of this, and time to back up the truck, have a fire sale, PLAY OUR PUPPIES, and reboot for the draft and 2022-2023. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 15, 2021, 09:29:38 AM
Good plan - though all the triumphant early cries of the over 41.5 wins bettors do crumble.

Need Charlotte to finish top 12, so we get pick 19.  Some interesting Euros.

Kentucky PG should be there for us - he is slated right now around 13-14

Consistently productive point guard with good size and length. Solid frame with plenty of room to add strength. Has nice combination of scoring and creating for point guard position. Has ball skills and vision to consistently create for others while his jumper is playable to the perimeter. Finishes well at rim due to physical tools. Has ability to defend both guard positions at next level due to instincts and length. Projects as high major starter with professional upside if game continues to progress.




https://247sports.com/player/tyty-washington-46057695/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 15, 2021, 09:35:14 AM
Fournier's lone made FG was a baseline cut when Poole paid too much attention to Randle, who made a nice pass.
That occurred 1Q immediately after Scurry hit one more 3 than RayAllen.
Would like to see more of that kind of action.
We've seen ObiT do well by backdooring down the baseline.
Otherwise at times I have flashbacks to Dantoni stating that he just doesn't like player movement.

GSW runs all sorts of screens, including Scurry screening a Big under the basket and then flaring away and leaving havoc.

Getting rid of David Lee was a good move even if everything we got back turned out to be useless.  Too bad we didn't get Dray Green in the deal ...
Btw, Kalenna Azubuike announces the Warrior games and does a nice job.  Sort of in the informative with humor style of Richard Jefferson. 
Well-spoken guy, knows the game and impressed me by actually knowing what was going on with the Knick team and players the last 5-10 games.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 15, 2021, 10:22:09 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 15, 2021, 09:35:14 AM

GSW runs all sorts of screens, including Scurry screening a Big under the basket and then flaring away and leaving havoc.


What Elephant said about watching the two offenses. Movement. Movement. Movement. We stand in the corners for 20 seconds. They move to the corners off action. Many alternative Knick histories out there. So much focus on if we had the seven pick not the eighth. But what if Kerr accepts the NYK job not GSW?

*** some coaches don't like movement because it leads to increased turnovers, GSW often among the leaders in most...but the upside, and the JOY OF WATCHING
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 15, 2021, 11:20:48 AM
We do not have a Curry

Closest in terms of movement is Quickley.

What numbers would Immanuel put up of green-lighted at 35 minutes per night?  If we had added Lonzo Ball we could have found out.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 15, 2021, 03:12:05 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on December 15, 2021, 10:22:09 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 15, 2021, 09:35:14 AM

GSW runs all sorts of screens, including Scurry screening a Big under the basket and then flaring away and leaving havoc.


What Elephant said about watching the two offenses. Movement. Movement. Movement. We stand in the corners for 20 seconds. They move to the corners off action. Many alternative Knick histories out there. So much focus on if we had the seven pick not the eighth. But what if Kerr accepts the NYK job not GSW?

*** some coaches don't like movement because it leads to increased turnovers, GSW often among the leaders in most...but the upside, and the JOY OF WATCHING

Kerr accept the Knicks job?

From PHOOL JAGOFF? 

Kerr himself was recently quoted as to how he would've lasted two years, MAX, before being fired. 

What's his name, lasted a 1-1/2. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 15, 2021, 03:44:48 PM
The schedule lightens up now.  Knicks have a chance to right the ship and get back to .500 over the next 10 or so games.   

IF the team continues its struggle over this 'easy' stretch then I think the season is basically lost and we look at becoming sellers.

See what you can get for Fournier/Knox/Kemba maybe add Mitch or Noel into that bucket.   Stock the already stocked draft cupboard even more.

IF the team wins 7 of 10 or 8 of 11 then maybe it convinces the FO to be buyers and go after a guy like Turner using up some of our draft ammo.

Either way, we will have a better insight in 2-3 weeks.   We just gotta wait and see.   Making a move today becuase it's Dec 15 would be hasty.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 15, 2021, 03:50:32 PM
Addendum:  I love what Randle did for this team last year, but if you go back two years there were plenty here in this forum saying that building around Randle would not be easy.  He isn't switchable, he sometimes (okay often) tries to do too much, he gets into iso-mode and one-on-one mode sometimes and can shoot both teams into or out of the game.   In other words, not a top guy on a great team.   

I think we saw his ceiling last year as Top guy on a good team.   That was with everything falling into place and with him as the unquestioned team leader.   


Now that we try to replicate last year we see it's not that easy.   So trading Randle should not be 100% off the table.   We saw the best of Randle and we know what it takes to surround him with guys who don't want to take the ball out of his hands.   And even that team was limited.

Can Randle be the best player on a conference finalist?  The answer is no.   Who disagrees?

NO we aren't trading him for Buddy Heild like before last season.   But we have to ask ourselves if we are being foolish building around a player who isn't that dominant.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 15, 2021, 04:36:35 PM
Either way, we will have a better insight in 2 to 3 weeks.   We just gotta wait and see.   Making a move today becuase its Dec 15 would be hasty.


AGREE.

And I would think any deal looks long past this season as well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 15, 2021, 05:57:19 PM
Contract Year Randle was surrounded by plenty of defenders.
And I don't mean to knock Randle, as it's not easy to come in in great shape from off-season workouts, and then be mentally and physically strong through the long NBA season grind.   Especially with the workhorse minutes Thibs doles out.
That was probably peak Randle.  But if you're going to build around Julius, then build around Julius, which means defenders and shooters (and a shot blocking C).

As for Big Picture, I endlessly harp on the need for a starting PG and how we're spinning our wheels and going nowhere without one.  Point out our weak defenders and the need for two-way players, and switchable wings.  Want more ballhandling, passing, movement, fewer minutes, etc. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 15, 2021, 08:01:22 PM
I dont know Bo I think I was the only one around here who didnt think we were good enough with Walker/Rose
Title: Chamaco knows
Post by: carlos123 on December 15, 2021, 10:26:19 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on December 15, 2021, 08:01:22 PM
I dont know Bo I think I was the only one around here who didnt think we were good enough with Walker/Rose

Chamaco is always the "only one around here who..." KNOWS... ... ... ... ... ... ...  ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...  ... ... ... ... ... ...
... ... ... ... ... ... ...  ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...  ... ... ... ... ... ... EVERYTHING

- Help Chamaco Cartero! -
(he needs it much more than Andy Parker)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 16, 2021, 03:08:59 AM
I thought our defense would suffer with Kemba and Fournier in place of Elf & Bullocks.

But we were lucky to pick up Kemba, otherwise we would have been just Rose & IQ (and for whatever reason Burks) at PG.  Just as we were lucky to nab Rose in the first place.  Of course, Rose has worked out grandly, and Kemba was the fall guy for this year's crappy defense.  Though we still play iffy D and lose without him.

I'm just watching a replay of the 4Q (earlier I only saw the last 5 mins of the 4Q earlier.

9 minutes to go and down 9.  Knix have a good defensive sequence, scrambling while GSW sprays the ball all around.  Grimes does a terrific job stifling a Damion Lee drive, so Lee has to flail and throw the ball awkwardly back out.   Iggy dumps it to Toscano posting up Knox on the left block with 4 then ... 3 ticks left.  Burks, maybe thinking Knox is a weak defender or the shot clock is soon to go off, does a weak double.  He's pseudo-doubling but not getting close enough to bother the offender or get a hand in.  So Professor Iguodala, Burk's man, screens McBrideofFrankenstein, whose man then cuts to the rim and gets a lays up just before the shot clock.  Either hard double and disrupt the ballhandler or defend your man.  Burks was too distracted to process/notice the screen.  Hell, he's jumping left as the pass goes right, right to the rim.  Bottom line: halfway no man's land defense is deadly.

Very next play, Randle doubles Scurry high up to get the ball out of his hands.  Knox comes over to cover the rolling Bjelica until Julius can recover.  But Burks retreats into the paint for no reason and leaves Iggy about 15' open.  Sure Iggy isn't the best 3-pointer, but is wide open, and could also quickly kick to Toscano in the left corner before Knox recovers from the right block.  B2B no-man land defensive plays from Burks.  Sure he's probably been out there 40 minutes already.  Maybe he doesn't trust Knox, who did his job well on both those defensive possessions.  But you can't just drift and get caught guarding noone.

This was actually a Burks speciality last year, where his man would be parked usually in the right corner, Burks would drift too far, venturing into the paint, and sometimes an alert Big would slide down from the elbow and set a baseline pick, so Burks would have zero ability to recover.  Burks would never be aware of the screen until far too late.  Burks loves to drift into the paint for no reason.

Very next play, Quix drifts far into the paint, his man passes up a wide open elbow 3, then relocates.  When Damion Lee gets the ball in the corner, Quix is so lost amidst the paint Big I'm not even sure he could see his man with the ball in the corner.

Plenty of defensive flaws in the 4Q when the Knix were trying to stay connected.  There's 3 staright bad defensive plays by our G's during one minute of play.  GSW presents minimal threat inside, so I have no idea why the Knix guards were drifting so far away from 3 point shooters.  Is this what Thibs wants?

When the game was close or tied early 4Q, Azubuike had a harsh assessment, bluntly stating that the Knix were garbage in crunch time and weren't going to win a close game in the last 5 mins.   At least not v. GSW.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 16, 2021, 04:08:45 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 15, 2021, 08:01:22 PM
I dont know Bo I think I was the only one around here who didnt think we were good enough with Walker/Rose

I think most were relieved we found an additional PG. 
But everyone was aware that BOS dumped Kemba, where he had knee issues and couldn't defend anything, and then OKC waived Walker when no trade option manifested. 
Kemba was a low risk maneuver.  There were concerns that between Kemba and Rose they might miss a fair amount of games due to knee troubles. 

I miss our defensive identity.  I also miss opening night Fournier.  Where'd that guy go?

I'll add, either play Kemba or play McBride.
And for godssake start a PG. 
We have 3.5 of them.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 16, 2021, 04:35:11 AM
Well, Burks was a human sieve on D mid-4Q.

7' mark, Knix down a mere 4 points, Burks turns his head to peak at the post-up, so his man cuts and beats him for an easy layup.  Next play he fronts Bjelica who simply catches a lob and lays it in.   Is Bjelica really a post up threat?  Could have used better team communication so a help defender could come over.  But also you can't front a Big 12' out.  At most front briefly and then shift back around.

Quickly the deficit back to 8.
For both of those plays, Randle and Knox were the Knick two Bigs ...
Without Mitch or Noel, there was no rim protection and not even a whiff of interior help defense. 

Not sure what Thibs was thinking.  Who are you going to stop with a lineup of McBride-IQ-Burks-Knox-Randle?  But Burks needs to know there's no rim protector on the court, and that Bjelica is a jump shooter, not a post-up dude.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 16, 2021, 04:50:53 AM
Awful 4Q D.
5' mark, GSW push.  A 3-on-3 break, but Rose just stays in the middle of the court guarding noone, until a long pass hits Poole on the elbow for a wide open 3.
Knix transition D has been awful all season (and last).

Next play, Randle just wanders deep into the paint, so his man Dray Green pops in a wide open 3.  Just wow.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 16, 2021, 07:19:23 AM
But we were lucky to pick up Kemba, otherwise we would have been just Rose & IQ (and for whatever reason Burks) at PG.  Just as we were lucky to nab Rose in the first place.  Of course, Rose has worked out grandly, and Kemba was the fall guy for this year's crappy defense.  Though we still play iffy D and lose without him.


I disagree with this

We'd have added another PG if not Walker prior to the season.

Which is why - if we arent playing Kemba - we will look to add one now.

Rose "working out grandly" is an OK assessment - as long as we have that other key guy (read: starter).

Is Thibs convinced it can be Burks as we get healthier and continue the season?  Is Leon convinced?  Does Leon care about bottom line wins/playoffs this year or is it just big picture?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 16, 2021, 08:09:44 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 16, 2021, 07:19:23 AM

I disagree with this
We'd have added another PG if not Walker prior to the season.
Which is why - if we arent playing Kemba - we will look to add one now.

Who would we have added?
I was clamoring for FVV, wanted BallZo, and would have settled for Rubio.
Preferring to spend big money on a starting PG and not add Fournier.
By the time we picked up Kemba, all those fellers were signed away.

I don't see us adding a PG.  We have 3 PG's already & Kemba. 
Title: Moving Forward
Post by: chipstern on December 16, 2021, 11:42:19 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 16, 2021, 08:09:44 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 16, 2021, 07:19:23 AM

I disagree with this
We'd have added another PG if not Walker prior to the season.
Which is why - if we arent playing Kemba - we will look to add one now.

Who would we have added?
I was clamoring for FVV, wanted BallZo, and would have settled for Rubio.
Preferring to spend big money on a starting PG and not add Fournier.
By the time we picked up Kemba, all those fellers were signed away.

I don't see us adding a PG.  We have 3 PG's already & Kemba.

Perry reportedly was pushing hard for DeRozan. 

Not sure why Ball was undervalued by our brain trust.  Still a work in progress, but a 6'6" work who plays D. 

I like Burks, but do not see him as a 40 minutes a night man, let alone a PG. 

I like Noel, but he is prone to getting dinged up, and offers us nothing in the way of offense. 

Mitchell and Evan?  The jury is still out.  Evan baffles me.  Something to do with his role in the offense?  Early on, he and JR seemed to be developing a nice two man game.  Did I say Evan baffles me.  He was sure a fierce baller in the Olympics.  Mitchell still seems to be getting his hops back, but is getting schooled by bigs who can nail the three, which kind of obviates his effectiveness as a rim rocker, does it not? 

AS HAS BEEN DISCUSSED. 

Seeing the beautiful motion and movement, with and without the ball that GS evinced [and yet we remained within striking range until they turned up the jets late in the game], our offense seems stodgy and ISO Heavy.  Of course, we don't have a Steph Curry or a Draymond Green, and RJ has a ways to go, Wiggins-Wise.  And this is GS without Wiseman and Thompson.

Not quite Phool Jagoff stodgy, but overly mechanical...in the HeroBall mode when Melo was our #1-#2-#3 OPTION, AND TEAMS WOULD COLLAPSE ON HIM, much as they do on Julius. 

Julius' shortcomings notwithstanding, clearly the brother doesn't know whether to shit or go blind.  If he dominates the offense, as Thibs suggested in the press with his call for JR to be more aggressive, than JR is selfish.  If he works to facilitate on a team full of non-cutters and very streaky shooters, than he doesn't make his teammates better.

It's water under the bridge, but one can imagine Julius being far more effective as a second option with someone like DeRozan to be the main option and draw the coverage [he has supercharged Lavine and company with his old school mastery], or, as Bo suggests, a pure PG such as Rubio, to set the table.  Julius is a good player.  Early on when both Fournier and RJ were clicking, things looked promising.

Options?

As Trader Vics come out of the woodwork, I mean, SERIOUSLY, who is likely to take Kemba off our hands?  Let alone Fournier.  Or Noel Or Burks Or Mitchell for that matter? 

Given our talent pool, it would seem like a seller's market.  First rounders would likely have to be attached to get something useful back. 

I like Turner.  I like Sabonis even more, and think he could be a really effective small ball center.  Indiana has issues, mainly THEIR COACH, who is a real douche [check out narratives emerging out of and around Dallas, and how much better, Porzingis, for one, is playing under Kidd]. 

I'm of a mind to develop our youth.  Don't think Thibs quite sees it that way. 

Players, such as Okoro and Toppin, benefit from getting to work out their kinks not just in practice, but on the court.  Okoro, known as a 3&D dawg, and one of BoD's fave whipping boys, for his offensive shortcomings, was 7-9, 3-3 from trey and 3-4 from the FT last night in a Cavs blow out of the Rockets.  All of a sudden Love is healthy, Rubio had 12 assists and 4 steals in 21 minutes, Allen has been developing nicely, as has Garland in the absence of Sexton. 

All three of our puppies, Sims, Grimes and McBride, have excelled when given a chance, and Knox, still not a stalwart defender, has excelled as a sniper when finally given minutes out of sheer desperation.  Sam-A-Knick has excelled in G-League as a 6'10" stretch-4/3 hybrid, a la the Cavs Markkanen, and Jokubaitis, our Euro Stash combo, has been tearing things up in Europe, so help is on the way. 

STILL...


As prudent as Leon Rose and company have been [and, COUGH, Kemba, Evan, Nelens and Alec surely are not working out as projected], I AM TERRIFIED that we are going to sacrifice yute and draft assets in pursuit of some dubious short term "fixes." 

Can Leon get creative, and use his 'connections" to convert water into wine. 

STAY TUNED. 
Title: J MACRI this morning
Post by: Kam on December 16, 2021, 11:50:29 AM
The trade deadline is February 10, and the next top six seed in either conference that the Knicks play will be 19 games from now, when they face the Clippers on January 23. This comes after a stretch in which they have played seven top six seeds in their last dozen games. New York, should they put it together, absolutely has a run in them.

Let's take a look at some recent precedent of teams over the last four seasons (skipping the pandemic-shorted/bubble season because it was bonkers) who started slowly over the first third of the year and rebounded to finish with a significantly better record and/or net rating to end the season:

2020-21
Washington Wizards

After 24 games: -6.2 net rating, 27th in the NBA, 7-17 record

After 72 games: -1.6 net rating, 22nd in the NBA, 34-38 record

Miami Heat

After 24 games: -3.3 net rating, 23rd in the NBA, 10-14 record

After 72 games: -0.1 net rating, 17th in the NBA, 40-32 record

Dallas Mavericks

After 24 games: -2.5 net rating, 22nd in the NBA, 10-14 record

After 72 games: 2.3 net rating, 10th in the NBA, 42-30 record

New York Knicks

After 24 games: -1.0 net rating, 17th in the NBA, 11-13 record

After 72 games: 2.4 net rating, 9th in the NBA, 41-31 record

2018-19:

Orlando Magic

After 28 games: -3.0 net rating, 24th in the NBA, 13-15 record

After 82 games: 0.6 net rating, 14th in the NBA, 42-40 record

Brooklyn Nets

After 28 games: -1.6 net rating, 22nd in the NBA, 10-18 record

After 82 games: -0.1 net rating, 15th in the NBA, 42-40 record

Utah Jazz

After 28 games: -1.0 net rating, 20th in the NBA, 13-15 record

After 82 games: 5.0 net rating, 4th in the NBA, 50-32 record

Houston Rockets

After 28 games: -0.1 net rating, 17th in the NBA, 14-14 record

After 82 games: 4.8 net rating, 5th in the NBA, 53-29 record

2017-18

Miami Heat

After 28 games: -2.5 net rating, 21st in the NBA, 14-14 record

After 82 games: 0.4 net rating, 16th in the NBA, 44-38 record

New Orleans Pelicans

After 28 games: -0.9 net rating, 18th in the NBA, 14-14 record

After 82 games: 1.1 net rating, 13th in the NBA, 48-34 record

Philadelphia 76ers

After 28 games: -0.2 net rating, 17th in the NBA, 14-14 record

After 82 games: -0.2 net rating, 4th in the NBA, 52-30 record

That's 11 teams in all, and we can eliminate most of them as realistic comps because they had a star or superstar player(s) at their disposal to help spur the turnaround:

2017-18: Sixers - Joel Embiid / Ben Simmons; Pelicans - Anthony Davis / Jrue Holiday;

2019-20: Jazz - Donovan Mitchell / Rudy Gobert; Rockets - James Harden / Russell Westbrook (who was good in the second half of the season)

2020-21: Mavericks - Luka Doncic, Miami - Jimmy Butler; Washington - Bradley Beal / Russell Westbrook (who was good in the second half of the season  ... again)

Last season's turnarounds from the Heat and Wizards also included slow starts influenced by injuries and/or COVID.

That leaves four teams: the 2017-18 Miami Heat, the 2018-19 Brooklyn Nets and Orlando Magic, and of course, last season's Knicks. I'm ruling out the Heat as a realistic comp because #HeatCulture being what it is, midseason turnarounds were something of a habit by then, having come back from 11-30 the previous year to finish 41-41. Goran Dragic also made his first and only All-Star team that season.

The other three teams are interesting. The '18-19 Magic stuck with their four-man core of Nikola Vucevic, Aaron Gordon, D.J. Augustin and - wait for it - Evan Fournier for the whole season, never making a starting lineup change other than briefly when Jonathan Isaac went down with an injury. That four-man group had been together the previous two seasons and had clearly build up a level of confidence that eventually, things would turn around.

It did. BUT only delayed the inevitable tear down and tank by a couple years. Brooklyn, on the other hand, parlayed their feel-good finish into KD and Kyrie. There's no free agent pot of gold at the end of the rainbow this season, but the comp is still there: major market, keep the positive vibes flowing, and trust that good things will happen.

If they can turn it around, which leads us to the last comp: last year's Knicks. They're further under .500 with a worse net rating right now than they were after 24 games last season, and even if they get Myles Turner without overpaying, the likelihood of him having a Derrick Rose type impact is slim. Still, they don't need to go 34-20 the rest of the way (the record that would result from the equivalent winning percentage they had over the final two thirds of last season) to make this a successful year.

My take, after all of the question-raising I just did: if they can simply be a top 10 defense from this point forward and be a slightly better offense than what they've shown (say, 9th in D and 17th in O?) that should be enough to get them a .500 record by April and restore the positive vibes of last season. Of all the realistic possibilities that exist, that's the one I'm rooting for, ping pong balls be damned.

But it has to start now, tonight, in Houston, with a win. And then keep going, with a minimum requirement of getting back to .500 by the time the schedule gets harder again after the next 18 games.

History says its possible. Likely? The culture that was supposedly so strong last season will decide as much.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 16, 2021, 12:53:42 PM
I don't see us adding a PG.  We have 3 PG's already & Kemba.


Kemba would be in the deal

McBride is an apprentice.

As seen, Rose best off the bench and for 22-26 minutes.

Give the team to Quickley?  Sure.  Let's see it.

Other than that - the search is on leaguewide.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 16, 2021, 12:55:36 PM
I was clamoring for FVV, wanted BallZo, and would have settled for Rubio.


Attaboy.

But I guess we all have to still trust Leon for now.

It's Leon/Thibs combo wavelength that may worry some.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 16, 2021, 01:44:56 PM
Btw, that BKY v. TOR game the other night was hugely entertaining.
Not least because in the 2nd half rookie Barnes battled Durant even on both ends.
Late in Raps big 3Q, Barnes twice went 1-on-1 posting Durant and scored.
Then Barnes started giving KD problems with his defense.
And for good measure, Barnes started popping key 3's in the 4Q.
One confident, talented rook.

Other storylines:
Trent and Mills bombing in 3's.
Kessler Edwards doing his Grimes impersonation, playing some real nice 2-way ball.
David Duke starting and getting a double-double, including the game-clinching rebound.
FVV had a stellar game, but missed two late reg shots that could have won it.
Just lotta guys leaving it all out there, including Blake Griffin and Boucher.
Title: Kam
Post by: chipstern on December 16, 2021, 01:47:40 PM
Good points. 

Perhaps we can work out the kinks. 

Hell, Atlanta stunk up the joint until they hired McMillan late in a lost season, and damn bear made the finals. 

Fate/Pandemic has intervened with Thibs where he was FORCED AT GUNPOINT to play the next men up, and Sims, Grimes, Knox and McBride all responded. 

So we shall see. 

But 35 minutes for Rose, 40 for Burks, irrespective of injuries, is troubling, and neither benefits the Knicks, not Derrick and Alec. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 16, 2021, 01:57:12 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 16, 2021, 01:44:56 PM
Btw, that BKY v. TOR game the other night was hugely entertaining.
Not least because in the 2nd half rookie Barnes battled Durant even on both ends.
Late in Raps big 3Q, Barnes twice went 1-on-1 posting Durant and scored.
Then Barnes started giving KD problems with his defense.
And for good measure, Barnes started popping key 3's in the 4Q.
One confident, talented rook.

Other storylines:
Trent and Mills bombing in 3's.
Kessler Edwards doing his Grimes impersonation, playing some real nice 2-way ball.
David Duke starting and getting a double-double, including the game-clinching rebound.
FVV had a stellar game, but missed two late reg shots that could have won it.
Just lotta guys leaving it all out there, including Blake Griffin and Boucher.

I simply ADORE Barnes.  Could not at first understand why Raptors took him over Suggs.  With hindsight a no brainer.  Looks like a cross between Rodman and Worthy. 

And sometimes it helps to be lucky.  Detroit and Houston were simply in love with Cade Cunnigham and Jalen Green, allowing Mobley and Barnes, both seemingly generational players,  to drop to the Cavs and Raptors, both of whom have had a major impact. 

In terms of value and draft position? 

It ain't always when you pick but whom?

#13 [Duarte]

#16 [Sengun]

#25 [Grimes]

#36 [McBride]

#38 [Dosonmu]

#58 [Sims]
Title: Fuck Me
Post by: chipstern on December 16, 2021, 02:04:41 PM
Kevin Knox II has entered health and safety protocols and is out versus Houston tonight.
Title: Re: Fuck Me
Post by: Kam on December 16, 2021, 03:14:28 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 16, 2021, 02:04:41 PM
Kevin Knox II has entered health and safety protocols and is out versus Houston tonight.

IF YOU ARE IN NEW YORK AND HAVE A BLUE JERSEY, GO TO THE GYM THE KNICKS NEED YOU.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 16, 2021, 04:26:06 PM
15+ game scores for Barnes - 12

7 of last 9

Suggs is on his level - make no mistake

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 16, 2021, 04:36:28 PM
Great Lakers win last night - led by Ellington and Reaves

And today they have signed Isaiah Thomas
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 16, 2021, 04:46:39 PM
I really enjoyed Reaves early in the season.  Unafraid, competes, and feisty on D.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 16, 2021, 08:02:34 PM
Barrett
Toppin
Grimes
Knox

OUT

I am calling a 25-7-5 game for Burks.  And of course a W.

Watch out for Matthews - and Sengun

And GORDON, who could get 40.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 16, 2021, 10:37:55 PM
That was a nice change of pace.

More McBride please. He is good.

I like that Quick completed a redemption lob to Mitch after throwing an earlier one into the rafters.

Taj is in every way more useful on the floor than Noel.

Evan needs to get twenty points to go from infuriating to only disappointing.

Start Deuce and Quick. Bring the farts off the bench.

Mitch Randle RJ Quickley McBride, or start Taj and bring Mitch off the bench. More fun that way.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 16, 2021, 11:09:32 PM
The McBride-Quickly duo was the revelation.

And in the 4th quarter, paired with Taj + Mitch.

That's interesting! And it damn sure worked (at least against Houston).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 16, 2021, 11:16:22 PM
Deuce - gettin in the paint under control, dishing

Its been missing
Title: Chamaco-s day job
Post by: carlos123 on December 16, 2021, 11:24:11 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on December 16, 2021, 08:02:34 PM
I am calling a 25-7-5 game for Burks.

Chamaco, are u better at predicting than you are at your day job? 😳

Do u actually have a day job? 🥸
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 17, 2021, 01:32:58 AM
Quote
[NYK] starters have remained terrible without Walker, and so has their defense.
With the foursome of Burks, Evan Fournier, Barrett and Julius Randle on the court, New York has allowed 121.4 points per 100 possessions in 110 minutes this season, an even more dismal mark than the 117.5 per 100 it gave up in 408 minutes with Walker, Fournier, Barrett and Randle sharing the floor.

Quote
Since being officially named a starter, Burks has shot 12-for-42 (28.6 percent) from 3-point range ... and averaged 14.3 points on 49.8 percent true shooting.

Burks defense has also been erratic, especially off the ball and (lack of) awareness of screens.  I can't imagine 40 mpg is helping Burks defense, but he was abysmal in 2nd half v. GSW.

Meanwhile teams seem to be targeting Fournier lately.

I said a few weeks ago that maybe the Knix should start Rose and Taj together, since they play hard and have plenty of chemistry.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 17, 2021, 02:42:10 AM
Ankle nursing is going to put a damper on the Rose starting experiment, at least for a while.

I propose a young guns rotation, assuming our kids can get back quickly and easily from the Covid protocols.

Robinson Sims
Randle Toppin
Barrett Knox
Grimes Burks
McBride Quickley
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 17, 2021, 07:16:09 AM
Heyyyyy

Alriiiiight Fac





No.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 17, 2021, 07:40:41 AM
Burks just had a baby, which is why he missed the previous game.
So probably a bad time to predict a big game.
Dealing with family distractions and likely lack of sleep.
NBA players have lives which affect their play, and we usually aren't privy to that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 17, 2021, 07:45:46 AM
At times Fournier tuning out is almost a tangible visible thing.
Late 2Q, he misses a pair of FT's.
Then pushes a guy in the back on an entry pass.  Knix in the penalty so FT's for HOU, making a run.  Next play Fournier plays catch with Randle and then fires a 3 over the rim.  It's as if his 6-hour energy concoction ran out 5 minutes ago.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 17, 2021, 09:00:32 AM
Quote from: elephant on December 16, 2021, 11:09:32 PM
The McBride-Quickly duo was the revelation.

And in the 4th quarter, paired with Taj + Mitch.

That's interesting! And it damn sure worked (at least against Houston).

I was watching the game on the couch in our living room when my girlfriend came home from christmas shopping after work.   She started casually showing me what she bought while also taking note of what was happening on the TV.   She never watches but always asks me who is winning.   It was a two point game when she came in but then IQ started hitting threes and she was like "Who is that he is good, is his name really Quickley?"  And then every time he nailed a three she would yell with delight.   Finally Taj started taking threes and she said, "that guy always misses" lol.  Needless to say the win was made more enjoyable with her company and commentary.
Title: NBA Player Ratings
Post by: Kam on December 17, 2021, 09:44:15 AM
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/ (https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/)

RAPTOR ratings use play-by-play and player-tracking data to calculate each player's individual plus-minus measurements and wins above replacement, which accounts for playing time.


Derrick Rose is 13th
Julius Randle is 249th

Out of 250 players.

Other Knicks

Burks is 26th
IQ is 49th
------------------
Mitch is 143rd
Kemba is 163rd
Toppin is 180th
Barrett is 189th
Fournier is 223rd

Makes sense that the Knicks starters are ranked low since they often get the team into a hole early.   Doesn't mean Julius Randle is a bad player necessarily.   Just that he hangs out in the wrong crowd.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 17, 2021, 09:58:26 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 17, 2021, 07:40:41 AM
Burks just had a baby, which is why he missed the previous game.
So probably a bad time to predict a big game.
Dealing with family distractions and likely lack of sleep.
NBA players have lives which affect their play, and we usually aren't privy to that.

check
Title: Re: NBA Player Ratings
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 17, 2021, 11:05:28 AM
Quote from: Kam on December 17, 2021, 09:44:15 AM
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/ (https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/)

RAPTOR ratings use play-by-play and player-tracking data to calculate each player's individual plus-minus measurements and wins above replacement, which accounts for playing time.


Derrick Rose is 13th
Julius Randle is 249th

Out of 250 players.

Other Knicks

Burks is 26th
IQ is 49th
------------------
Mitch is 143rd
Kemba is 163rd
Toppin is 180th
Barrett is 189th
Fournier is 223rd

Makes sense that the Knicks starters are ranked low since they often get the team into a hole early.   Doesn't mean Julius Randle is a bad player necessarily.   Just that he hangs out in the wrong crowd.

Nice list

Liking Dangelo at 22 overall and Hield in top 50.

I think Barnes is top rookie at 42
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 17, 2021, 11:49:56 AM
Nearly 40 minutes for McBride....jeez, what the hell was Thibs thinking....gosh..dang...heck
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 17, 2021, 12:44:33 PM
(https://preview.redd.it/8ir9cliq15681.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=8f6242db8458668a7d9ee150a0e1f19d5223cab2)
Title: well...
Post by: lesterluv on December 17, 2021, 12:45:27 PM
.... Bo be damned, good practice for Miles as he may have to play all 48 next game.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 17, 2021, 01:34:26 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 17, 2021, 07:45:46 AM
At times Fournier tuning out is almost a tangible visible thing.
Late 2Q, he misses a pair of FT's.
Then pushes a guy in the back on an entry pass.  Knix in the penalty so FT's for HOU, making a run.  Next play Fournier plays catch with Randle and then fires a 3 over the rim.  It's as if his 6-hour energy concoction ran out 5 minutes ago.

Both visible and tangible...on both offense and defense unfortunately.
Fournier in decent groove. Leaves game.
Comes back in as Knicks are beginning long stretch of horrible iso possessions over 2nd and 3rd quarters that has announcers cringing and results in lead that diminishes from 17 to none. No effort to set things up for the shooter who was hot. Think Randle & Quick the main culprits but I was tuning out so can't be sure.

Fournier has plenty of issues, but think his attention deficit problems might be diminished on a team that doesn't play ass-stupid for such long stretches.
Title: Re: well...
Post by: facilitatorn on December 17, 2021, 01:42:55 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on December 17, 2021, 12:45:27 PM
.... Bo be damned, good practice for Miles as he may have to play all 48 next game.

There may even be a Wayne Seldon sighting.

It is even possible that Thibs takes the bubble wrap off Kemba for this one.
Title: Re: well...
Post by: Kam on December 17, 2021, 02:06:14 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on December 17, 2021, 12:45:27 PM
.... Bo be damned, good practice for Miles as he may have to play all 48 next game.

At this point how confident can we be that Deuce won't be entering the protocol also?

NBA should postpone the game we can't field a squad like this.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 17, 2021, 03:37:36 PM
At this point how confident can we be that Deuce won't be entering the protocol also?


I am not unconfident.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 17, 2021, 03:39:03 PM
It's that time of year again - looks at the CBA (China. that is)

Jamaal Franklin is longggg overdue to be brought over.

For what it's worth, JIMMER, not currently active, does expect to play somewhere before season's end.
Title: Thibs & Padre Riles: HOW MINUTES ARE EARNED
Post by: chipstern on December 17, 2021, 05:13:36 PM
FOOTNOTE: All Of Our Ongoing Threads Of Analysis & Criticism May Very Well Be Very Moot AND Very Soon. 

Okay, with that out of the way...

I have a number of issues with Thibs, not to mention Leon Rose [James Dolan's number has been retired.] 

But Given The Unexpected Presents We Have All Discovered Under Our XMAS Tree, Owing In Part To The Principle Of NEXT MAN UP...

I think it is worth pointing out that while the jury is still out, we can look balefully with 20/20 hindsight on some of the front offices Free Agent moves. 

But our draft class of Quentin Grimes,[Rokas Jokubaitis], Miles McBride and Jericho Sims, when thrust into play, given the exigency of the moment, have MANNED UP AND THEN SOME. 

We have also seen, their ups and downs fully acknowledged, significant growth from Knox, Mitchell, RJ, Obi and Quickley. 

I count 8 Knicks player under the age of 23 that are all under development.  When was the last time in historical memory, we could point to THAT as an ongoing reality. 

Okay...AND THIS FROM A COACH WHO IT IS ALLEGED DOES NOT DEVELOP YOUNG PLAYERS. Hello. 

I believe, given TT's rep for being vet happy, and his alleged marriage to what many of us would consider a very stodgy, old school offensive style, I think in all fairness we should acknowledge that there appears to be an ongoing spitirual/stylistic joust between the VETERANS and THE BREAKFAST CLUB, with Julius crossing over to both. 

(https://bioagewho.co/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/Monica-McNutt-Wikipedia-Husband-Salary-Net-Worth-Married-Boyfriend-Family-442x381.jpg)

The evidence before us, is that all season long, the starters have been wildly up and down, and the bench has saved our bacon time and time again, and given us a style of play with the kind of pacing and tempo and ball movement and tenacity that Thibs keeps touting in his pronouncements to the media. 

(https://thehoya.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/1.1894070-1050472890.jpg)

It is worth noting given the dramatic impact of our rookies and our puppies, that COVID willing, we are at a crossroads in Thibs' journey and in the evolution of this team, given the exile of Walker, the up and down struggles of Fournier and Burks, and the Jeckyl & Hyde nature of Randle's games. 

Which brings us to...

Monica McNutt


Not only is this former Georgetown baller tall, tan and terrific, with the most be still my heart chops this side of the eternally funky Millie Jackson...

(https://vz.cnwimg.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/mj.jpg)

But she is also personable, engaging, funny and a terrific basketball analyst, and Monica's breakdown last night of DEUCE ON THE LOOSE, and the energy and smarts he brought to both sides of the ball, was Dead ON. 

Monica and Alan Hahn made a very strong case for promoting the puppies, and making them a first unit, and our veterans the second unit, pointing out that given the puppies' success, that THIBS has some decisions to make, and soon. 

Just off the top of my head, I would think that RJ would be a much better fit with some combo of Deuce-IQ-Grimes, where the ball is moving, and people are in motion, than with Fournier and Burks, hanging out in the corner, watching Julius pound the rock. 

The challenge for Thibs [and Julius] is how to best mesh with our Yute and our Vets, and how to thus field players on the court and distribute minutes. 

The sheer ENERGY and PACE we get from players like Obi and IQ, Grimes and McBride, has to be accounted for.  Or some combination therein. 

When we put away the pesky Rockets [Kenyon Martin's son was a MF] in the final quarter last night, as memory servies, this was the team we had on the floor. 

Mitchell
Taj
Burks
IQ
Deuce

Thibs noted that they had a really nice run, and so he decided to leave Julius on the bench to get some extra rest [WHAT A FUCKING CONCEPT].  The ball was moving, the offense was not static, their was defensive energy, and the pace and tempo was lively. 

As Hahn and McNutt made clear, THIBS HAS SOME DECISIONS TO MAKE. 



Title: PS
Post by: chipstern on December 17, 2021, 05:19:43 PM
Thibs campaigned hard, VERY HARD, for the Knicks to draft McBride. 

15 points
9 assists
4 steals
ZERO Turnovers

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ConsideratePettyCockatoo-max-1mb.gif)

For Whom The Bell Tolls...

Deuce, it tolls for THEE

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 17, 2021, 05:25:31 PM
Kyrie, The Return
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 18, 2021, 11:01:44 AM
Lakers Timberwolves game was fun. Towns in first half was on a mission, killing it around the basket and tossing in a couple of threes.

Best part was Isaiah Thomas who Lakers brought in to help the depleted lineup. Ended up leading the team in scoring.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 18, 2021, 11:20:45 AM
Too bad LeBJ shoved a Twolf into Anthony Davis damaging his knee.

Then in one of the dumb things that pass as normal, when a $20M NBA athlete injures his leg, he hobbles off with his arm around two guys shoulders as you'd do in the park.  Never understand why they don't immediately get weight off the injured lower limb and use some kind of cart or riding device.  AD actually collapsed in the tunnel, which could/might have caused more damage.  Not saying every sprained ankle requires a wheelchair, but I'd have some motorized cart for all knee and back injuries.
Title: Saved from another Thibs Rookie Overplay...
Post by: lesterluv on December 18, 2021, 11:26:15 AM
Quote from: Kam on December 17, 2021, 02:06:14 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on December 17, 2021, 12:45:27 PM
.... Bo be damned, good practice for Miles as he may have to play all 48 next game.

At this point how confident can we be that Deuce won't be entering the protocol also?


not very, lol, lol, good predicting!

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1472234456664657922 (https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1472234456664657922)
Title: This is not your grandfather's covid...
Post by: lesterluv on December 18, 2021, 11:34:06 AM
On the positive side, these (at least with our team) are all breakthrough infections.
The vaccinated tend to clear the virus much more quickly than the unvaxxed. Two neg tests and you're back.
How long was Westbrook out, like 5 minutes? Our Knicks should start trickling back shortly.



*** if they don't, well, pretty negative portent for the wider OMICRON WAVE
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 18, 2021, 12:13:30 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 18, 2021, 11:20:45 AM
Too bad LeBJ shoved a Twolf into Anthony Davis damaging his knee.

Then in one of the dumb things that pass as normal, when a $20M NBA athlete injures his leg, he hobbles off with his arm around two guys shoulders as you'd do in the park.  Never understand why they don't immediately get weight off the injured lower limb and use some kind of cart or riding device.  AD actually collapsed in the tunnel, which could/might have caused more damage.  Not saying every sprained ankle requires a wheelchair, but I'd have some motorized cart for all knee and back injuries.

Yeah, I was thinking about your comments on this phenomenon when I saw him collapse.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 18, 2021, 01:30:24 PM
heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 18, 2021, 01:36:17 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 18, 2021, 01:30:24 PM
heh

Of course, your "heh" creates a certain tension between the enigmatic and the just plain stupid.

(Until after a few seconds it crawls over to the just plain stupid realm where it feels at home)

About that incident. Can't recall a ballplayer collapsing in the tunnel before. And I've never heard anyone but Bo mention the utility of safely getting guys off the floor.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 18, 2021, 01:59:11 PM
Yeah, man - the blood all rushed to the ankle - what did you expect



Heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 18, 2021, 02:03:23 PM
Knicks (13-16) at Celtics (14-15)

Which means.......
Title: IT
Post by: chipstern on December 18, 2021, 02:10:06 PM
Quote from: elephant on December 18, 2021, 11:01:44 AM
Lakers Timberwolves game was fun. Towns in first half was on a mission, killing it around the basket and tossing in a couple of threes.

Best part was Isaiah Thomas who Lakers brought in to help the depleted lineup. Ended up leading the team in scoring.

I couldn't be more happy for the young man. 

He went out and played hurt for the Celtics, taking one for the team, and they utterly fucked
him. 

Been a long time coming back. 

HEART For DAYS

I always loved his game, even given his place of honor on Chairman Bo's HE'S A DEFENSIVE LIABILITY All Stars. 

PS: In the interests of full disclosure, when he hit the G League, I thought of him in a Knick uniform, but then I was visisted by visions of Kemba Walker and Deuce McBride, and the moment passed.  Still, I root hard for him, even if it is the LeBron Lakers.  My compromise is for him to lead the team in scoring and get a fresh start at a contract worthy of his heart in 2022-2023. 

PPS: Hahn was talking about how unhappy KAT looked in Minny.  Sure looked happy last night.  Don't recall ever seeing him play with that level of fuck y'all tenacity.  He's been through a hell of a lot in the pandemic, and I surely wish him peace and contentment, and a winning team, after all of the professional and personal loss he has undergone.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 18, 2021, 02:12:28 PM
Eric Gordon to Knicks being discussed.  Interesting.

48/43/71 for year
Title: Rumors
Post by: chipstern on December 18, 2021, 02:16:20 PM
Marc Berman [naturally]

Eric Gordon?

Sure why not.

WHY NOT?

Quentin Grimes
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 18, 2021, 02:25:51 PM
If I can offload Fournier for him and it dies not cost more than a second round pick, get it done. 

Alternatively, if they will take Kemba and Noel that works for me.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 18, 2021, 02:34:25 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 17, 2021, 05:25:31 PM
Kyrie, The Return

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/dec/18/kyrie-irving-covid-protocols-kevin-durant-brooklyn-nets (http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/dec/18/kyrie-irving-covid-protocols-kevin-durant-brooklyn-nets)

That was fun.

Title: Re: IT
Post by: lesterluv on December 18, 2021, 02:34:42 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 18, 2021, 02:10:06 PM


PPS: Hahn was talking about how unhappy KAT looked in Minny.  Sure looked happy last night.  Don't recall ever seeing him play with that level of fuck y'all tenacity.  He's been through a hell of a lot in the pandemic, and I surely wish him peace and contentment, and a winning team, after all of the professional and personal loss he has undergone.

Yep, he was feisty n ferocious...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 18, 2021, 02:36:26 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 18, 2021, 02:34:25 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 17, 2021, 05:25:31 PM
Kyrie, The Return

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/dec/18/kyrie-irving-covid-protocols-kevin-durant-brooklyn-nets (http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/dec/18/kyrie-irving-covid-protocols-kevin-durant-brooklyn-nets)

That was fun.

lmao....they decide to bring THE UNVAXXED GUY back in the midst of the outbreak...lol, lol, lol, lol
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 18, 2021, 02:45:43 PM
97% of the league is vaxxed

And a boatload are getting infected

Figure it the fuck out, Lester.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 18, 2021, 03:13:44 PM
He went out and played hurt for the Celtics, taking one for the team, and they utterly fucked


Well, no - they traded him after he came up lame, unable to finish a series run for a pretty good team.

Prior to that they gave him an opportunity at starter's minutes, which he did not have til Celts acquired him
Title: Mr. heh (and lol) strikes YET again #43,837&8
Post by: carlos123 on December 18, 2021, 03:20:53 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on December 18, 2021, 01:30:24 PM
heh

I meant to point out how DUMB this is, but elephant beat me to it. Good for you, elephant!

Quote from: chamacocartero8 on December 18, 2021, 01:59:11 PM
Yeah, man - the blood all rushed to the ankle - what did you expect
Heh

Double down on STOOPID

- Help Chamaco Cartero! -
(he needs it much more than Andy Parker)
Title: chamaco doubles and triples down on STOOPID
Post by: carlos123 on December 18, 2021, 03:26:28 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on December 18, 2021, 02:45:43 PM
97% of the league is vaxxed

And a boatload are getting infected

Figure it the fuck out, Lester.

And how many of those infected vaxxed players are in the hospital, genius?
Title: Re: chamaco doubles and triples down on STOOPID
Post by: lesterluv on December 18, 2021, 03:53:34 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 18, 2021, 03:26:28 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on December 18, 2021, 02:45:43 PM
97% of the league is vaxxed

And a boatload are getting infected

Figure it the fuck out, Lester.

And how many of those infected vaxxed players are in the hospital, genius?

LOL 300X, he's dumber than shit, always had been, always will be...

Title: #vaccineswork
Post by: lesterluv on December 18, 2021, 03:55:17 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 18, 2021, 02:45:43 PM
97% of the league is vaxxed

And a boatload are getting infected

Figure it the fuck out, Lester.

And Westbrook is out-and-in in 36 hours, figure it the fuck out, Kidd, lol, lol, lol...

**** the vaxxed clear the virus 3x faster and are 14x less likely to die ya-head-up-ya-ass MORON

** and if there's anything else you still don't understand halfwit, Lester happy to explain it to ya
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 18, 2021, 04:15:42 PM
So who's available to play tonight?

GOT to play Walker, no?
Title: Seriously
Post by: chipstern on December 18, 2021, 04:37:14 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 18, 2021, 02:25:51 PM
If I can offload Fournier for him and it dies not cost more than a second round pick, get it done. 

Alternatively, if they will take Kemba and Noel that works for me.

That does NOT work for me. 

Im not really keen on either of these. 

Sorry Facil, don't mean to shadow you. 

Not like I'm incapable of goofy trades. 

I mean, yeah, be nice to get out from under Evan's contract, if he is indeed a wash...I'm not yet convinced. 

But, with all due respect to Eric Gordon, this makes no fucking sense. 

We block Quentin Grimes' ascent with another vet. Which is just very short sighted. 

And we ONLY SAVE one season on Fournier.  Gordon's contract guarantees him $19.5 in 2022-2023 [the following season is a team option] 

Oh, and Gordon is going to be 33 next week and has a troubling history of injuries, some of recent vintage. 

We're going to punish Fournier? 

Your trade punishes GRIMES. 
Title: THIS Just In
Post by: chipstern on December 18, 2021, 04:41:38 PM
Quote from: elephant on December 18, 2021, 04:15:42 PM
So who's available to play tonight?

GOT to play Walker, no?

McBride & Burks.

Fournier & Selden. 

So the Knicks signed Tyler Hall from the Westchester squad as a hardship exception. The 6'5" guard is putting up 14-4-3

Think Kemba may get the call? 

PS: If the NBA is still playing games comes New Year, I will be astounded.  This COVID outbreak is a like a prarie fire. 
Title: Vax Facts
Post by: chipstern on December 18, 2021, 04:51:10 PM
No, vaccinations do not protect you from airborne infections. 

BUT THEY KEEP YOU FROM ENDING UP IN A HOSPITAL ICU with a python's penis down your throat. 

I have people in my circle who WERE infected, but got through it because they were vaccinated. 

As for the AntiVaxx Debate?

I have a dear friend, an old friend, who not content to give fucking Kyrie the thumbs up, allowed as how he was definatly unvaccinated, that Fauci was in cahoots with China, the people who promulgated the Vaccines profitted from a disease they themselves created, and that all of us who bought into the big lie are a bunch of sheep. 

I was very very upset, and not at all encouraged to remain in touch, I regret to say. 

PS: PREDICTIONS?  Poor Kevin Knox was infected over the summer and last week.  He was vaccinated.  What's the OverUnder on how many games Kyrie plays before he, too, is infected, or spreads his ill chill amongst his team mates?  This current outbreak is ramping up speed furiously. 
Title: Re: Seriously
Post by: facilitatorn on December 18, 2021, 06:51:41 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 18, 2021, 04:37:14 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 18, 2021, 02:25:51 PM
If I can offload Fournier for him and it dies not cost more than a second round pick, get it done. 

Alternatively, if they will take Kemba and Noel that works for me.

That does NOT work for me. 

Im not really keen on either of these. 

Sorry Facil, don't mean to shadow you. 

Not like I'm incapable of goofy trades. 

I mean, yeah, be nice to get out from under Evan's contract, if he is indeed a wash...I'm not yet convinced. 

But, with all due respect to Eric Gordon, this makes no fucking sense. 

We block Quentin Grimes' ascent with another vet. Which is just very short sighted. 

And we ONLY SAVE one season on Fournier.  Gordon's contract guarantees him $19.5 in 2022-2023 [the following season is a team option] 

Oh, and Gordon is going to be 33 next week and has a troubling history of injuries, some of recent vintage. 

We're going to punish Fournier? 

Your trade punishes GRIMES.

Gordon is a dawg and a very good player. In this most next man up of seasons you want as many of those as possible and that may hold true for next year two. I would rather have one aging Gordon than Evan who cannot maintain focus throughout a game or a too small PG and a non catching center.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 18, 2021, 06:59:34 PM
Evan and Eric would both play
Title: Re: #vaccineswork
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 18, 2021, 07:03:47 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on December 18, 2021, 03:55:17 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 18, 2021, 02:45:43 PM
97% of the league is vaxxed

And a boatload are getting infected

Figure it the fuck out, Lester.

And Westbrook is out-and-in in 36 hours

**** the vaxxed clear the virus 3x faster

True and true
Title: Re: Seriously
Post by: chipstern on December 18, 2021, 07:31:53 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 18, 2021, 06:51:41 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 18, 2021, 04:37:14 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 18, 2021, 02:25:51 PM
If I can offload Fournier for him and it dies not cost more than a second round pick, get it done. 

Alternatively, if they will take Kemba and Noel that works for me.

That does NOT work for me. 

Im not really keen on either of these. 

Sorry Facil, don't mean to shadow you. 

Not like I'm incapable of goofy trades. 

I mean, yeah, be nice to get out from under Evan's contract, if he is indeed a wash...I'm not yet convinced. 

But, with all due respect to Eric Gordon, this makes no fucking sense. 

We block Quentin Grimes' ascent with another vet. Which is just very short sighted. 

And we ONLY SAVE one season on Fournier.  Gordon's contract guarantees him $19.5 in 2022-2023 [the following season is a team option] 

Oh, and Gordon is going to be 33 next week and has a troubling history of injuries, some of recent vintage. 

We're going to punish Fournier? 

Your trade punishes GRIMES.

Gordon is a dawg and a very good player. In this most next man up of seasons you want as many of those as possible and that may hold true for next year two. I would rather have one aging Gordon than Evan who cannot maintain focus throughout a game or a too small PG and a non catching center.

Duly noted. 

Be that as it may. 

GORDON ain't coming. 

Book it. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 18, 2021, 07:40:43 PM
I mean, come on man. Wake up, Julius.

We got Seldon in there for 8 minutes, and Randle is 0-3 in shooting?

Either Burks goes off or we might lose by 35.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 18, 2021, 08:09:24 PM
Invisible man roused himself in 2nd quarter. Much better stuff from Randall. Don't know what that phantom foul was about that he was charged at the end.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 18, 2021, 08:54:16 PM
Covid does indeed make the NBA interesting.

Without it, no Grimes emergence, no McBride big game, and no K Walker showing he can still play some ball.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 18, 2021, 09:30:39 PM
Good news is the guys I want gone may have shown some value despite their contributions to an avoidable loss. Just hope some GM somewhere missed the fourth quarter.
Title: some GM somewhere
Post by: carlos123 on December 18, 2021, 10:36:33 PM
Quote from: Fac on December 18, 2021, 09:30:39 PM
Good news is the guys I want gone may have shown some value despite their contributions to an avoidable loss. Just hope some GM somewhere missed the fourth quarter.

Fac, I'm sure most GMs missed the whole game. Probably watching their own teams, or some other game...

They will watch all relevant parts on tape if some scout recommends it. But you knew all this. We're both just shooting the bull, ain't we?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 18, 2021, 11:00:03 PM
GORDON ain't coming.

Book it.


heh
Title: Mr. heh (and lol) strikes YET again #43,839
Post by: carlos123 on December 19, 2021, 12:16:39 AM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on December 18, 2021, 11:00:03 PM
GORDON ain't coming.
Book it.

heh

And he keeps on striking. A-fin-mazin!!!

- Help Chamaco Cartero! -
(he needs it much more than Andy Parker)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 19, 2021, 07:28:06 AM
Quite a 3Q.
BOS suffers from the same problem as the Knix, a lack of starting PG, so it gets ugly for stretches when things go off the rails.  Rather quiet game from Smart.  3 FG's, no FT's, 1 rebound.  Knix just 3 points from the suddenly non-existent bench.

FourEva looking pretty damn good when he drives and stays focused for more than a quarter or the first half.  Kemba can play.  Knix look better with a genuine ballhandler/ballmover.  Who knew?  Perhaps NYK record would be significantly better if Thibs hadn't benched Walker needlessly.  2 more W's and the Knickers would be at .500.

Tatum sure is up for pounding the ball and settling for long jacks.
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Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 19, 2021, 10:07:53 AM
FourEva looking pretty damn good when he drives and stays focused for more than a quarter or the first half.  Kemba can play.  Knix look better with a genuine ballhandler, ballmover.  Who knew? Perhaps NYK record would be significantly better if Thibs hadn't benched Walker needlessly.  2 more Ws and the Knickers would be at .500.



Bingo.
Title: Ah So
Post by: chipstern on December 19, 2021, 01:59:25 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 18, 2021, 09:30:39 PM
Good news is the guys I want gone may have shown some value despite their contributions to an avoidable loss. Just hope some GM somewhere missed the fourth quarter.

(https://i.gifer.com/9gH4.gif)

The NBA Season is THIS CLOSE to shutting down, and Facil is focused on trades. 

Ah SO....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 19, 2021, 02:55:29 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 19, 2021, 07:28:06 AM
Quite a 3Q.
BOS suffers from the same problem as the Knix, a lack of starting PG, so it gets ugly for stretches when things go off the rails. 

Schroder is the starter most games

Is said to be headed for a deal - but I am not so sure.
Title: Next Men Up
Post by: chipstern on December 19, 2021, 05:22:32 PM
So, let me see if I understand. 

The Knicks are floundering because, ostensibly, based on one's point of view, we have made some miscalculations with veterans. 

Ergo, the solution is to cash them in ON OTHER VETERANS. 

Never you mind that the one consistent bright spot in the Knicks' season, again, open to debate, has been the play of players drafted in 2021, 2020, 2019 and 2018. 

And with all due respect to 6'3" Eric Gordon, who is indeed a dawg [Phool could have signed him as a FA, but instead, opted to sign Courtney Lee, three years older, who is no longer in the league], following this path forward down the rabbit hole of logic, better to take on a big contract with two years guaranteed on a 33 year old player, than to empower QUENTIN GRIMES, who has already showed tangible signs of being a dawg himself, on both sides of the ball, is 21 years old, a robust 6'5" and shooting .469% from three, on an admittedly very small sample size. 

But the grand jury has come back with an indictment of Evan Fournier, never you mind Thibs urging patience, and so we enter THE GRASS IS ALWAYS GREENER ZONE, and begin reshuffling deck chairs on the Titanic. 

(https://acegif.com/wp-content/uploads/clown-57.gif)

Be that as it may, as a PP in good standing, I must defer to my worthy constituents, and co-sign veterans on the back end of their careers, as the NEXT MEN UP in putative pursuit of an early playoff exit, as I ride into the sunset. 



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 19, 2021, 07:42:26 PM
Ergo, the solution is to cash them in ON OTHER VETERANS.


uh...

what?

Draft picks and matching contracts net us an improvement.
Title: So, so dumb
Post by: carlos123 on December 19, 2021, 10:20:05 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on December 19, 2021, 07:42:26 PM
Ergo, the solution is to cash them in ON OTHER VETERANS.


uh...

what?

Draft picks and matching contracts net us an improvement.

What part of Chip-s post do not you understand?

Oh, wait, you do not understand ANY PART OF IT.

It aint difficult, but you are so, so f-in DUMB!
- Help Chamaco Cartero! -
(he needs it much more than Andy Parker)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 19, 2021, 11:48:54 PM
I'd rather have Fournier than Gordon.
Unless you think we need another vet voice/leader.
But even to what end?  We have Rose & Taj.  Is a vet leader going to get this team anywhere?

I'd rather try to light a fire under Fournier.  And play Grimey.
Maybe just play FourEva 1st halves and 20 mins a night until he stops tuning out.
To some extent, Thibs was already doing that.

A team like Minny could use another vet presence.  Such as a Gordon type.
Right now they have Pa Bev pushing the yutes and showing what hard work looks like.
Could use one more oldhead to steady and focus things.
Though with Edwards in place, they'd be better off adding an F (like a Covington type).
(Jimmy Butler and Taj couldn't get the Minny yute to focus and play D, so not sure who you could add to kick them in gear -- Pa Bev was a good start).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 20, 2021, 12:07:26 AM
Any Knick trade should be for a starting level PG or a 3&D switchable F.

Do we make a play for Brunson?
What would DAL want?  Mitch, maybe Fournier.  Steady vet Rose (plus) for yuteful PG Brunson?  Mitch & Rose for Brunson & flotsam?  Noel & Rose = Brunson and jetsam.

Siakim?
TOR has OG, Barnes and Boucher.  And Siakim is expensive.
Siakim would fit the Knix well.

Covington? 
Seems to have lost a step on-ball defending, but still a good help defender.

Just off the top of my head.
I'll have to check rosters (and contracts).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 20, 2021, 12:19:27 AM
Quote
for all his defensive shortcomings, Knicks are now 10-9 with Walker in the lineup and 3-8 without him. Evan Fournier, who was also terrific against the Celtics, is almost equally problematic as a defender, and overall the defense got worse after Walker's benching.
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Title: Re: So, so dumb
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 20, 2021, 09:14:56 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 19, 2021, 10:20:05 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on December 19, 2021, 07:42:26 PM
Ergo, the solution is to cash them in ON OTHER VETERANS.


uh...

what?

Draft picks and matching contracts net us an improvement.

What part of Chip-s post do not you understand?

Oh, wait, you do not understand ANY PART OF IT.

It aint difficult, but you are so, so f-in DUMB!
- Help Chamaco Cartero! -
(he needs it much more than Andy Parker)

Try responding to the final sentence rather than being butthurt by a reply not directed at you

Might make for decent conversation if you can handle that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 20, 2021, 10:10:39 AM
Before Kemba was benched earlier this season I said that Randle must give Kemba the keys to the offense.  Thibs didn't see it that way.   Thibs was wrong.

By pretty much any metric, Randle has been one of the worst high usage players in the NBA, while Walker (again, when he has had the chance to run the show) has been one of the best.

https://knicksfilmschool.substack.com/p/new-solutions-bigger-problems (https://knicksfilmschool.substack.com/p/new-solutions-bigger-problems)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 20, 2021, 10:44:52 AM
I would rather have Fournier than Gordon.


I'd rather have both
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 20, 2021, 10:55:03 AM
A team like Minny could use another vet presence.  Such as a Gordon type.
Right now they have Pa Bev pushing the yutes and showing what hard work looks like.


RUSSELL is in his SEVENTH season
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 20, 2021, 11:09:03 AM
I loved the intensity Thibs brought to the team last year, especially on D. Big emphasis on accountability.

Now that has diminished. The defense is weak. Guys are floundering on offense. And the news that Thibs hasn't even talked to Walker since the demotion is a disappointing revelation of his shortcomings. 

We need to coalesce quickly. How will it be done? For me, the idea that magically everything will be good with the next trade is a pipe dream. We've got enough talent to work with right now.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 20, 2021, 11:12:49 AM
Wouldnt you trade Knox, Taj + a middling pick for Gordon?

edit:  Probably need to add Burks and Danuel House
Title: Re: So, so dumb
Post by: carlos123 on December 20, 2021, 11:14:10 AM
Quote from: chamAAcocartero8 on December 20, 2021, 09:14:56 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 19, 2021, 10:20:05 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on December 19, 2021, 07:42:26 PM
Ergo, the solution is to cash them in ON OTHER VETERANS.


uh...

what?

Draft picks and matching contracts net us an improvement.

What part of Chip-s post do not you understand?

Oh, wait, you do not understand ANY PART OF IT.

It aint difficult, but you are so, so f-in DUMB!
- Help Chamaco Cartero! -
(he needs it much more than Andy Parker)

Try responding to the final sentence rather than being butthurt by a reply not directed at you

Might make for decent conversation if you can handle that.

LMAO 😜 ChamAAco defending Chamaco.

Easier to have a -decent conversation- with a log than with either of you two 😳🥸
Title: ELEPHANT: Thumbs Up
Post by: chipstern on December 20, 2021, 12:03:27 PM
Quote from: elephant on December 20, 2021, 11:09:03 AM
I loved the intensity Thibs brought to the team last year, especially on D. Big emphasis on accountability.

Now that has diminished. The defense is weak. Guys are floundering on offense. And the news that Thibs hasn't even talked to Walker since the demotion is a disappointing revelation of his shortcomings. 

We need to coalesce quickly. How will it be done? For me, the idea that magically everything will be good with the next trade is a pipe dream. We've got enough talent to work with right now.

Agree. Brother ELEPHANT. 

Pipe Dreams?

Just ciicked a Sports Illustrated link on on line no less, not some Adam Dressler blogosphere pseudoPseudo expertise, though I was nevertheless suspicious: THREE PLAYERS THE KNICKS SHOULD TRADE FOR.  Take a wild guess.  Buddy Hield.  A top tier three point player, for sure, though in his own way, as inconsistent as Fournier.  OKAY [he was in flame thrower mode against the Spurs last night, hitting 7-9 treys]

WHO ELSE?

Bradley Beal and Damian Lilliard. 

DUH.  Why not Allan Iverson? Spare me. 

As for Thibs?  Difference in defense between last year and this year.  Payton and Bullock or something else?  I'm not advocating putting Thibs on a slow boat to China.  Certainly not a good message for our NEXT COACHing candidates, should that day eventually arrive. 

Still, while I think the THIBS DOESN'T DEVELOP YOUNG PLAYERS rap has been substantially discredited, it is worth noting that two enduring criticisms of TT were that he plays his top tier players too many damn minutes, and--AND--that there comes a point where his players tune him out.

Not sure that has happenned. 

HOWEVER, I agree with ELEPHANT that the revelation in which Thibs has NOT SPOKEN TO KEMBA since his demotion was VERY VERY TROUBLING. 

Whatsoever his failings might be on the down side of his autumnal years, Walker remains a potent scoring option AND A REALLY REALLY GOOD PERSON,beloved by team mates annd foes alike. 

Oh, and what is the team record since Kemba was benched.

Fuck the analytics.  WHAT IS OUR RECORD? 

And it took injuries to Rose and a COVID outbreak for Thibs TO BE FORCED AT GUNPOINT TO INSERT MILES MCBRIDE IN THE STARTING LINEUP, where lo and fucking behold, he demonstrated why we drafted him and WHY HE IS OUR BEST PG, before sure enough he went into Health & Safety Protocols. 

So now presumably we cannot even spot Kemba 10-15 minutes a night because of his crummy D. 

THIBS managed to find 23 minutes a night over 63 games last season for Elfrid, due to his superior D, never mind his crummy O. 

Finally, agree with ELEPHANT that a trading frenzy fire sale is PRECISELY WHAT WE DO NOT NEED, that we have the talent on hand.  I mean, a sensible trade?  Why not?  But again, a fire sale is NOT THE MESSAGE WE WANT TO CONVEY TO FREE AGENTS, now, is it?  Two months and you're done?  By that reasoning we should have dumped RJ after his first season. 

PS: Kemba cited AC Johnny Bryant for his support during this challenging period. 

PPS: One thing we are clearly lacking, howsoever well Noel and Mitchell guard the paint, is some sort of offensive presence down low.  It doesn't--DIDN'T--necessarily need to be Myles Turner, but the likes of Robin Lopez were out there, Javele McGee, and BoD's disdain notwithstanding, wouldn't 25 minutes a night of Bobby Portis look good right about now?  NO, I AM NOT IN FAVOR OF DUMPING NERLENS OR MITCHELL, let alone for Eric Gordon, and we do have Jericho Sims pickling on the bench, but....

In any event, now is not the time for fire sales, and as for Thibs and Kemba, the least TT can do for Kemba is respect him as much as he did Elfrid Payton.   
Title: COVID
Post by: chipstern on December 20, 2021, 12:06:22 PM
While Thibs is conjuring up ways to diminish Kemba's trade value. fuck next man up. 

We have now reached the ALL HANDS ON DECK aspect of the looming COVID reality. 

The Celtics just recalled Luke Kornet and Theo Pinson from their Maine affiliate. 

Sound familiar?  Though another report puts Pinson on the Mavs. 

PS: Thibs, put your fucking mask on. 
Title: Nets Postscript
Post by: chipstern on December 20, 2021, 12:10:53 PM
So Kyrie is returning for road games?

Do TELL? 

And is presently in Health & Safety protocols with other members of their Big Three. 

QUESTION? 

How long before his unvaccinated status bites the Nets in the ass?  Even if he is asymptomatic, Kyrie is very vulnerable to this exceptionally transmissable new variant.  This puts him in danger of becoming quite ill and of potentially putting team mates and opponents in the eye of the storm. 

And yet Kyrie has the sheer chutzaph to compare his narcissistic posturing to the courageous actvisim of Muhammad Ali, who was threatened with prison and not getting paid 17 million a year to work out in his home gym, motherfucker. 
Title: Dotson
Post by: Kam on December 20, 2021, 12:19:34 PM
Dotson's return
Title: Re: Dotson
Post by: chipstern on December 20, 2021, 01:18:38 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 20, 2021, 12:19:34 PM
Dotson's return

Oh, wow. 

Was sorry he washed out with the Cavs. 

But as a Knick from time to time he went postal from three, and was a stout defender. 

PS: THE ENTIRE SEASON IS IN PERIL. 
Title: Re: ELEPHANT: Thumbs Up
Post by: Kam on December 20, 2021, 01:36:33 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 20, 2021, 12:03:27 PM

PPS: One thing we are clearly lacking, howsoever well Noel and Mitchell guard the paint, is some sort of offensive presence down low.  It doesn't--DIDN'T--necessarily need to be Myles Turner, but the likes of Robin Lopez were out there, Javele McGee, and BoD's disdain notwithstanding, wouldn't 25 minutes a night of Bobby Portis look good right about now?  NO, I AM NOT IN FAVOR OF DUMPING NERLENS OR MITCHELL, let alone for Eric Gordon, and we do have Jericho Sims pickling on the bench, but....



We can't afford another Center who doesn't shoot threes.  We need to play five-out.  You don't want Julius Randle to be doubled by a Center in the paint.
Title: Re: ELEPHANT: Thumbs Up
Post by: chipstern on December 20, 2021, 01:59:31 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 20, 2021, 01:36:33 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 20, 2021, 12:03:27 PM

PPS: One thing we are clearly lacking, howsoever well Noel and Mitchell guard the paint, is some sort of offensive presence down low.  It doesn't--DIDN'T--necessarily need to be Myles Turner, but the likes of Robin Lopez were out there, Javele McGee, and BoD's disdain notwithstanding, wouldn't 25 minutes a night of Bobby Portis look good right about now?  NO, I AM NOT IN FAVOR OF DUMPING NERLENS OR MITCHELL, let alone for Eric Gordon, and we do have Jericho Sims pickling on the bench, but....



We can't afford another Center who doesn't shoot threes.  We need to play five-out.  You don't want Julius Randle to be doubled by a Center in the paint.

Good point. 

Luke Kornet, anyone? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 20, 2021, 02:14:55 PM
Kornet to Cavs.  Pinson to Mavis.  Neither to Boston.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 20, 2021, 02:23:22 PM
I don't want Gordon and his contract at all.  He'd break down after Thibs plays him 40 mins one night.  Btw, Danuel House was waived the other day.

Tangelo and KAT are the same age and experience.  Young vets unable to lead.  T'angelo shooting 39% FG this season.  And his defense is likely, as always, terrible. 
All that for just $29M!  A flashy mess. KAT also a chump on D. KAT needs a change of scenery.

That Wiggins for Tangelo trade was excellent for GSW.  They also got a 1st rounder which they just used on Kuminga (#7 overall) who kind of reminds me of a defensive version of ObiT.  (They could have drafted all-around swiss army knife Franz Wagner, who went 8th an could have been a nice Win Now piece for them).  Kuminga a raw athletic 19 year old.

Wiggins has rounded into a real nice player.  GSW does a great job of developing players.
Wiggins and Kuminga for D'Russell.

Always liked Kornet.  Tougher than he looks.  Competes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 20, 2021, 02:54:45 PM
AW could always play

16+ PER three times in Minnesota

17.4 current
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 20, 2021, 03:00:35 PM
Russell of course has one more season in Minnesota, where he fits with Towns but will likely be dealt.  Start working on those Dangelo to NY offers.
Title: Player Development
Post by: chipstern on December 20, 2021, 03:26:13 PM
Worth noting that Andrew Wiggins 3-Point Shooting has improved dramatically in two seasons alongside Curry and Kerr. 
Title: Who Dat?
Post by: chipstern on December 20, 2021, 05:51:41 PM
The New York Knicks are signing guard Matt Mooney of the NBA G League Capitanes de Ciudad de Mexico
Title: Daily Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 20, 2021, 06:52:31 PM
You have heard me rant about Brad Dressler's epic stupidity before. 

https://dailyknicks.com/2021/12/20/jalen-brunson-trade-could-save-ny-knicks-season/ (https://dailyknicks.com/2021/12/20/jalen-brunson-trade-could-save-ny-knicks-season/)

This is a smug, self-aggrandizing dweeb of Biblical Proportions. 

Anyway, sorry, but if there is a baseline for absurd trade phantasies, Dressler is the Mt Everest of dipshittery. 

Like the Mavs are going to trade Brunson.  DUH. 
Title: Re: Who Dat?
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 20, 2021, 08:08:38 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 20, 2021, 05:51:41 PM
The New York Knicks are signing guard Matt Mooney of the NBA G League Capitanes de Ciudad de Mexico

Damn - got excited for a sec - thought it said Matt Maloney
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 20, 2021, 08:11:00 PM
Dallas sucks - why wouldnt they make a deal?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 20, 2021, 08:20:03 PM
Mavs, Wolves, Kings and Blazers fighting for one spot
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 21, 2021, 12:10:01 AM
Depends what DAL can get back for Brunson.

Doubt Mitch & Kemba is enough.
Two gimps.  Mitch falls apart and you might have nothing.
That's why I was starting with Mitch & Rose.
Plus then DAL would be kind of forced to sign Mitch at a fairly high rate, since they couldn't just let him go as a FA after trading for him.
I also think Kleber is a solid player and not just a throw-in bum.
Last year he was active on both ends.  This year seems slowed down by injuries.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 21, 2021, 04:14:43 AM
Kemba, Mitch, Knox, and their pick back for Jalen, Mo Brown, and Dwight Powell.

They can go Mitch, KP, Finney-Smith, Hardaway, Doncic with WCS, Kleber, Bullock, and Kemba off the bench.

We wind up with

Powell Brown Noel
Randle Obi Taj
Barrett Burks Seldon
Grimes IQ Fournier
Brunson McBride Rose

I would then see what the market is for Fournier and Noel.

Just a thought.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 21, 2021, 09:55:50 AM
Quote from: Kam on December 20, 2021, 10:10:39 AM
Before Kemba was benched earlier this season I said that Randle must give Kemba the keys to the offense.  Thibs didn't see it that way.   Thibs was wrong.

By pretty much any metric, Randle has been one of the worst high usage players in the NBA, while Walker (again, when he has had the chance to run the show) has been one of the best.

https://knicksfilmschool.substack.com/p/new-solutions-bigger-problems (https://knicksfilmschool.substack.com/p/new-solutions-bigger-problems)

Randle really may be the biggest problem/disappointment on this team.  Imagine a Kemba and Obi high-octane offense that runs for days instead of what Randle apparently needs (his own personal PG, what is he a lefty ACE who needs his own personal catcher??).    When he isn't scoring Randle isn't playing defense anyway so sit his ass.

https://twitter.com/YoungNBA/status/1473040559874977795?s=20 (https://twitter.com/YoungNBA/status/1473040559874977795?s=20). <-- Randle can't shoot.

The Knicks have a 99.5 defensive rating with Randle off the court this season. That number would lead the league. If he can even be part of a league average defense in his minutes, that'll be just fine.  Just asking Julius to care.  Care! Just CARE!!!

(https://cdn.substack.com/image/fetch/w_1100,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_lossy/https%3A%2F%2Fbucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-437e-9518-adb32be77984.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F15b254c7-c274-4c00-b736-64b55270ea85_480x268.gif). <-- Randle can't defend.
Title: Macri
Post by: Kam on December 21, 2021, 10:01:38 AM
I want to remind everyone that before last season, few of us thought of Randle as anything more than trade bait - a player we hoped would rehabilitate his value to the point that maybe the Knicks could recoup a small asset in any deal that sent him out of town, inevitably opening up space for his replacement that the team had just drafted. He was no one's idea of the best player on a halfway decent team, let alone a good one. This was supposed to be a team of equals.

Less than a year later, many of the same folks (possibly including this author) were having notions that Randle could be the centerpiece on a team that won a playoff series and even put a scare into one of the big boys. That complete and total 180 in expectations was a product of nothing more than Randle's transformation last season, which itself was (by all accounts) the result of an immense amount of offseason work and preparation.
Title: More Macri
Post by: Kam on December 21, 2021, 10:27:13 AM
The Knicks have to either figure out how to get Randle right or try and trade him.  And if they want to trade him (Can't happen until Feb 3rd) the Knicks have to figure out how to fix Randle enough that some team will want him.   Either way, they (the Knicks, Randle, everyone) have to get better so that they ultimately can move him for value or actually keep him because the team is good again.

His numbers this year are not only down from last season, but are among the lowest of his career. From an efficiency standpoint, not only is he about 10 points per 100 shot attempts worse that last season, but 4.3 points per 100 shot attempts worse than his first year in New York, which we all agreed was pretty dreadful. There's also little difference in the amount of self creation he's been doing compared with the last few seasons, and that's despite his shot diet actually getting more efficient, with 13 percent fewer shots from midrange this season. (where he is shooting a dreadful 28%). 

If you read the tea leaves, it seems like Julius himself is telling us how he thinks he'll be able to find his way out of this, and that's by being more aggressive and looking for his own shot more. Which gets us to a harsh reality that is somewhat antithetical to common sense: if New York wants to have any chance to turning this year around, they're probably going to need to give a lot more shooting possessions to a guy who has been, as I pointed out yesterday, maybe the worst high volume shooter in basketball. For this to have any chance of working, I'd focus on pairing him with players who don't need the ball to provide value when they're on the court, which brings me to my radical solution of the day:

Once the team is fully healthy, start Deuce McBride and Quentin Grimes, along with RJ Barrett and Nerlens Noel, who is the center Julius seems to enjoy playing with the most. I'd also consider Immanuel Quickley in place of Grimes (or, if it wasn't going to be a PR nightmare, Barrett), because the defensive combo of Deuce and Quick seems to have the makings of something special, and all the lineup data seems to point to IQ as the one player who consistently generates good results in combos that contain Randle.
Title: BoD
Post by: chipstern on December 21, 2021, 03:28:23 PM
Why would we consider trading Rose? 

Not making a case for him as somehow on an Olympian Plateau.

But as much as he gives us in the way of a skillset, is verteran leadership, and a certain calming influence, and a lot of other things that do not show up on a stat sheet.  Not the least of which are the effect he has, off camera, on Quickley and McBride. 

I can see, from the recent posts by you and my worthy constituents, Facil and Kam [and Carlos], that THESE ARE THE TIMES THAT TRY MENS' SOULS, and that we have officially entered that familiar phase of Knicks history where we entertain fire sales and tear it all down, including, it would seem, Coach Thibs. 

I like Brunson very much, but given an admittedly small sample size, pre-Safety Protocols, IQ and McBride defined a certain tune and tempo, pace and intensity, which I liked very much, and it's worth remembering that we have Jokubaitis on ice, whom we drafted TWO SPOTS Ahead OF MCBRIDE.  Given that portrays me as a cockeyed optimist, but what the hey, aye? 

Anyway, knock yourselves out guys.  By all means, let's trade Randle and Fournier, Rose and Mitchell.  Why not? 

Peace. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 21, 2021, 03:29:29 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 21, 2021, 09:55:50 AM
Quote from: Kam on December 20, 2021, 10:10:39 AM
Before Kemba was benched earlier this season I said that Randle must give Kemba the keys to the offense.  Thibs didn't see it that way.   Thibs was wrong.

By pretty much any metric, Randle has been one of the worst high usage players in the NBA, while Walker (again, when he has had the chance to run the show) has been one of the best.

https://knicksfilmschool.substack.com/p/new-solutions-bigger-problems (https://knicksfilmschool.substack.com/p/new-solutions-bigger-problems)

Randle really may be the biggest problem/disappointment on this team.  Imagine a Kemba and Obi high-octane offense that runs for days instead of what Randle apparently needs (his own personal PG, what is he a lefty ACE who needs his own personal catcher??).    When he isn't scoring Randle isn't playing defense anyway so sit his ass.

https://twitter.com/YoungNBA/status/1473040559874977795?s=20 (https://twitter.com/YoungNBA/status/1473040559874977795?s=20). <-- Randle can't shoot.

The Knicks have a 99.5 defensive rating with Randle off the court this season. That number would lead the league. If he can even be part of a league average defense in his minutes, that'll be just fine.  Just asking Julius to care.  Care! Just CARE!!!

(https://cdn.substack.com/image/fetch/w_1100,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_lossy/https%3A%2F%2Fbucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-437e-9518-adb32be77984.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F15b254c7-c274-4c00-b736-64b55270ea85_480x268.gif). <-- Randle can't defend.

Not a good look. 

Duly noted. 

Title: Typical Knicks Fan
Post by: chipstern on December 21, 2021, 04:17:21 PM
(https://24.media.tumblr.com/8e73bffed325be36c05fbad74e3354ce/tumblr_mrumzit4Zx1rgfruro1_400.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 21, 2021, 05:35:21 PM
The Knicks have a 99.5 defensive rating with Randle off the court this season. That number would lead the league. If he can even be part of a league average defense in his minutes, that will be just fine.  Just asking Julius to care.  Care! Just CARE!!!


Fuck off!
Title: It's Miller Time, baby!
Post by: carlos123 on December 21, 2021, 06:35:57 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 21, 2021, 03:28:23 PM
I can see, from the recent posts by you and my worthy constituents, Facil and Kam [and Carlos], that THESE ARE THE TIMES THAT TRY MENS' SOULS, and that we have officially entered that familiar phase of Knicks history where we entertain fire sales and tear it all down, including, it would seem, Coach Thibs. 

Peace.

I for one don't want to tear down the team. No fire sale here, I want to keep em all, including Kemba.

Just wanna get rid of Thibs, it looks like he lost the team, as usual, and for good reason. I said it before, the way he disrespected Kemba was despicable.

Get Mike Miller back, he was a good coach, and good for this team.

Peace.
Title: Chamaco back at it #454
Post by: carlos123 on December 21, 2021, 06:54:44 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on December 21, 2021, 05:35:21 PM
The Knicks have a 99.5 defensive rating with Randle off the court this season. That number would lead the league. If he can even be part of a league average defense in his minutes, that will be just fine.  Just asking Julius to care.  Care! Just CARE!!!


Fuck off!

Is that the best you can do, Chamaco? what PROFOUND REASONING!

- Help Chamaco Cartero! -
(he needs it much more than Andy Parker)
Title: Re: It's Miller Time, baby!
Post by: chipstern on December 21, 2021, 06:56:46 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 21, 2021, 06:35:57 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 21, 2021, 03:28:23 PM
I can see, from the recent posts by you and my worthy constituents, Facil and Kam [and Carlos], that THESE ARE THE TIMES THAT TRY MENS' SOULS, and that we have officially entered that familiar phase of Knicks history where we entertain fire sales and tear it all down, including, it would seem, Coach Thibs. 

Peace.

I for one don't want to tear down the team. No fire sale here, I want to keep em all, including Kemba.

Just wanna get rid of Thibs, it looks like he lost the team, as usual, and for good reason. I said it before, the way he disrespected Kemba was despicable.

Get Mike Miller back, he was a good coach, and good for this team.

Peace.

Is this the best YOU can do?
Title: Re: It's Miller Time, baby!
Post by: carlos123 on December 21, 2021, 07:23:34 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 21, 2021, 06:56:46 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 21, 2021, 06:35:57 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 21, 2021, 03:28:23 PM
I can see, from the recent posts by you and my worthy constituents, Facil and Kam [and Carlos], that THESE ARE THE TIMES THAT TRY MENS' SOULS, and that we have officially entered that familiar phase of Knicks history where we entertain fire sales and tear it all down, including, it would seem, Coach Thibs. 

Peace.

I for one don't want to tear down the team. No fire sale here, I want to keep em all, including Kemba.

Just wanna get rid of Thibs, it looks like he lost the team, as usual, and for good reason. I said it before, the way he disrespected Kemba was despicable.

Get Mike Miller back, he was a good coach, and good for this team.

Peace.

Is this the best YOU can do?

YESSSSSSSS 😁

I also want Fac on the coaching staff, provided he has no input on trades.

Whom do you propose to replace Thibs?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 21, 2021, 11:31:34 PM
Kemba and Evan are slowly working their way off my naughty list. Kemba faster than Evan, though I like McBride eventually as the starter.

Noel is terrible. He makes me yearn for the more inspired play of Jarred Jefferies and Jordan Hill. I do not know what we could get for him, but I do not want to see him play anymore in a Knicks uni. It is too depressing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 22, 2021, 12:02:14 AM
I would just like to say "welcome back, Mitch!"
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 22, 2021, 01:13:43 AM
I'd be patient with Mitch & Father Noel.  Neither has been healthy this year.
Noel was pretty terrific last year.  And it'd be nice to keep and develop Mitch long term.
Depends if NYK feels he can stay healthy.  Mitch & RJB are the only two Knix I'm (mostly) committed to.  And like the looks of early Grimes.

Don't especially want to lose Rose, but do want a starting PG.   Brunson has looked good and crafty when I've seen DAL.  Gotta give to get.  If I'm DAL I'm wary of trading young for old, that's why I'd want Mitch in the deal. 

Not sure where else we get a starting PG from.  McBride looks promising but is going to take some years to develop.  IQ looks like a scoring combo-G bench player. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 22, 2021, 02:15:02 AM
Fizdale can still inspire and lead a team to the same level of excellence as he did in New York.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 22, 2021, 03:35:44 AM
Short-handed Lakes, so ... Melo gets ejected for arguing a minor foul non-call.
Leaving the Lakes with THT and Rondo firing off wonky 3's.
While Westbrook was his usual mess of a self, putting up numbers and coughing up 6 2nd half turnovers.  Perennially on Bo's list of worst "star" players.  Along with Tangelo.

Franc started next to Brunson (28 Pts) in a DAL W.
Maybe Franc had something to do with Tangelo's 1-11 on 3's.  Why on earth is Tangelo heaving 11 triples?  39% FG for the season.  Did he bet on the other team?

And that's a little noticed NBA subplot.  From its former anti-gambling stance, to raking in lots of ad revenue from all sorts of online gaming sites.  Even long-time announcers such as Chuck & Kenny recruited into the gambling vortex.  Another small step in the downward spiral of America.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 22, 2021, 07:58:21 AM
Bo

Not disagreeing on your Mitch\Barrett long term take.  I still have RJ on the block (both actually) if we can add an alpha guy.

Though I do continue to ask - what type contract extension offers do you see for the duo, Robinson next year and Barrett in 23?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 22, 2021, 08:05:32 AM
In on Brunson of course.  How did so many miss on this NCAA champ with league pedigree?

Jalen of course also gets big bucks next year if we are fortunate enough to keep him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 22, 2021, 08:13:50 AM
Looking ahead - I guess we like McBride and Quickley enough but have to like this guy for upcoming draft.


https://www.basketballnews.com/draft/2022-big-board/players/collin-gillespie
Title: Magic #
Post by: Kam on December 22, 2021, 10:39:23 AM
On the season, the Knicks are now 11-1 when they hold teams to 103 or fewer points and 3-16 when they don't.   It ain't that complicated.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 22, 2021, 11:05:57 AM
Not that interesting a game.
Mitch was outstanding.
Noel was solid except for fumbling one pass.
Fournier active.  Early on, Fournier was missing drives but getting Kobe assists as Mitch would follow up.  Kemba was solid.
But Knix still had trouble putting away a scraggly DET team.

Bey couldn't make a shot but played hard.
Cunningham was mostly a disaster until he started zipping some nice passes very late.
I haven't seen him enough, PG's take time to develop, he has nice size, etc.  But my initial impression is I'd much rather have Scottie Barnes or Mobley.  Of course a franchise PG is invaluable, but it's not even clear Cunningham is a PG.
Last week I saw Barnes dueling first KD then LeBJ,  Skilled athletic young man with an NBA body.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 22, 2021, 11:30:56 AM
The usual lead dog being a scorer discussion.

Do you like Giddey better?  Passes well - and doesnt need the rock. interesting player. Very

Absolutely - lead guards are a crapshoot in the draft - but scoreres are needed leaguewide so they will always have some value.  Just a matter of the star question - is he in time - or is he not?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 22, 2021, 11:34:28 AM
I mean...think about it - here we are loving a Brunson - who is score-first but not to a fault in his year FOUR.  Cade by year 4 should be at least that.  Just that he is paid more - and in year 5 gets a bigger extension.  But you HAVE him (if you are DET) - bird in hand - where Brunson (or any player that has developed and become a top free agent) you need to hope to get.

Sweating who you could have had is usually bad fandom unless you had a total whiff like a Sweetney or (you would say) Jordan Hill.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 22, 2021, 01:20:27 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 22, 2021, 11:05:57 AM
Not that interesting a game.
Mitch was outstanding.
Noel was solid except for fumbling one pass.
Fournier active.  Early on, Fournier was missing drives but getting Kobe assists as Mitch would follow up.  Kemba was solid.
But Knix still had trouble putting away a scraggly DET team.

Bey couldn't make a shot but played hard.
Cunningham was mostly a disaster until he started zipping some nice passes very late.
I haven't seen him enough, PG's take time to develop, he has nice size, etc.  But my initial impression is I'd much rather have Scottie Barnes or Mobley.  Of course a franchise PG is invaluable, but it's not even clear Cunningham is a PG.
Last week I saw Barnes dueling first KD then LeBJ,  Skilled athletic young man with an NBA body.

Agree, sort of.

Not sure we've seen the best of Cade.  And while we were minus six players, Cade was missing Olynyk, Grant and Killian. 

I remember Barnes undressed Vildoza at half court in summer league with a steal.  That young man is the 3&D of our dreams.  Listed as a PF, but really, the Raptors front court is interchangeable, uber athletic, small ball bigs, topping out at 6'9"  [Achiuwa, Siakim, Barnes, Anunoby].  Barnes' skill set reminded of Iggy and Draymond, but one friend checked in with Pippen.  He is a beast, and already a much better shooter than advertised, least ways, he is evolving at a rapid pace.  Great competitive spirit to go with size and athleticism.  Good call by UJIRI, selecting him over Suggs. 

Mobley sure showed something against the Knicks, as well.  Very rangy, athletic big, who can run & spread the floot and the Cavs front line is the spiritual opposite of Raptors, with Allen Mobley and Markannen.  The latter hasn't lit it up, but they are all a suprisingly good fit. 

As per Cavs and their Tripartate Towers. 

There was a lineup last night, where out of desperation and lack of bodies, our front line was

Robinson
Randle
Gibson

Would love to see Coach try Obi at the 3 spot.  I have always seen him as a younger iteration of Gibson, on one level, anyway. 
Title: Re: It's Miller Time, baby!
Post by: chipstern on December 22, 2021, 01:21:38 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 21, 2021, 07:23:34 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 21, 2021, 06:56:46 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 21, 2021, 06:35:57 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 21, 2021, 03:28:23 PM
I can see, from the recent posts by you and my worthy constituents, Facil and Kam [and Carlos], that THESE ARE THE TIMES THAT TRY MENS' SOULS, and that we have officially entered that familiar phase of Knicks history where we entertain fire sales and tear it all down, including, it would seem, Coach Thibs. 

Peace.

I for one don't want to tear down the team. No fire sale here, I want to keep em all, including Kemba.

Just wanna get rid of Thibs, it looks like he lost the team, as usual, and for good reason. I said it before, the way he disrespected Kemba was despicable.

Get Mike Miller back, he was a good coach, and good for this team.

Peace.

Is this the best YOU can do?

YESSSSSSSS 😁

I also want Fac on the coaching staff, provided he has no input on trades.

Whom do you propose to replace Thibs?

Simon Bolivar
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 22, 2021, 01:24:40 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 22, 2021, 03:35:44 AM
Short-handed Lakes, so ... Melo gets ejected for arguing a minor foul non-call.
Leaving the Lakes with THT and Rondo firing off wonky 3's.
While Westbrook was his usual mess of a self, putting up numbers and coughing up 6 2nd half turnovers.  Perennially on Bo's list of worst "star" players.  Along with Tangelo.

Franc started next to Brunson (28 Pts) in a DAL W.
Maybe Franc had something to do with Tangelo's 1-11 on 3's.  Why on earth is Tangelo heaving 11 triples?  39% FG for the season.  Did he bet on the other team?

And that's a little noticed NBA subplot.  From its former anti-gambling stance, to raking in lots of ad revenue from all sorts of online gaming sites.  Even long-time announcers such as Chuck & Kenny recruited into the gambling vortex.  Another small step in the downward spiral of America.

Thank you. 

Like to give J.B. Smoove a banjo and a beating. 
Title: Brunson
Post by: chipstern on December 22, 2021, 01:40:03 PM
I like Jalen very much. 

But I do not see Dallas offloading him, not with Jason Kidd as his coach. 

And I apparently have a lot more enthusiasm for McBride based on a miniscule sample, than the rest of this forum. 

He has a ways to go in terms of consistency as a shooter and a scorer, but I was very impressed with his decision making and acumen as a facilitator, let alone his defensive tenacity. 

Finally, I am not all that eager to start offloading our youngsters in search of the elusive Alpha Player. 

Based on their rookie seasons, plenty of fans and forumites and blogsters would've gleefully traded RJ and Obi for a bag of magic beans based on the struggles of their rookie season. 

Likewise Mitchell Robinson, a fixture in every dumbass phantasy trade I've seem in the past few months. 

A starting PG? 

I feel you. 

Still, to echo Kam, it ain't that complicated.  DEFENSE. 

And as per our offense, in the post-game last night, Allan Hahn was suggesting that we were finally seeing some formative chemistry in a starting five including Burks.

Robinson
Randle
Burks
Fournier
Walker

I thought it was working last night, admittedly against the Piss Tones. 

Noel
Obi
RJ
IQ [Grimes]
Rose [McBride]

I think RJ might be a better fit for the Breakfast Club, a more fast-paced, up tempo, movement oriented second unit. 

When we have our full compliment, Thibs has a lot of interesting decisions to make. 
Title: Julius
Post by: chipstern on December 22, 2021, 01:48:01 PM
I am an unabashed, unapologetic Julius enthusiast. 

But in ther interests of full disclosure, there is a KeyStone Kops quality to many of his self-inflicted turnovers that make my little head explode, as like a slapstick vaudevillian he inevitably dribbles into double coverages and seemingly off his own feet. 

He was doing some very nice things as a facilitator last night in between his 6 turnovers, boarding decisively, and more focused on D.  As Wally pointed out, he is still "aiming" his shots, and as he himself likes to put it, "overthinking." 

But I thought he is FINALLY developing a nice chemistry with Fournier [and Walker], and that Burks, as shitty as he was shooting, was kind of the glue piece in the starting five. Fournier is still finding his range from out beyond the arc, but I really love his forays into the paint, and how he MAINTAINED HIS FOCUS AND HIS AGGRESSION for four quarters.  Evan also seems to be one of those cats, like Julius, who in overthinking things, tends to lose aggression and become tentative. 

As for Mitchell?  How much do we credit Kemba?  In any event, he had more hops and energy and focus, albeit against a smallish but fierce front court.  Detroit has no real size, realistically speaking, but I sure like how Stewart and Lyles were competing. 

And KEMBA?  Would like to think we can find time for him.  Maybe flip him with Rose in the starting five and Kemba in the second unit?  I should like to see Kemba running the pick and roll with Obi. 

But alas, I am afraid if not exile, the bench awaits Kemba.  Still, impressive how he remained READY, as per next man up, when it came down to LAST MAN UP. 
Title: Finally
Post by: chipstern on December 22, 2021, 01:59:23 PM
Nice win against the Piss Tones. 

But Washington represents a formidable challenge on Thursday. 

A lot of really tough match ups. 

They have depth, good coaching, energy, and a lot of serious skill players. 
Title: Jericho Sims, Please Pick Up The Hospitality Phone
Post by: chipstern on December 22, 2021, 02:01:10 PM
This just in. 

File under...DAMN. 

Nerlens Noel has just entered the COVID Protocol. 
Title: Guess Who?
Post by: chipstern on December 22, 2021, 02:03:44 PM
Fourty year old Joe Johnson signs with the Celtics. 

Golly. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 22, 2021, 03:15:22 PM
If Kemba starts and we beat Washington, I'd like to see how Thibs justifies thrusting him back into oblivion.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 22, 2021, 03:16:44 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 21, 2021, 11:31:34 PM
Noel is terrible. He makes me yearn for the more inspired play of Jarred Jefferies and Jordan Hill. I do not know what we could get for him, but I do not want to see him play anymore in a Knicks uni. It is too depressing.

I do not get this take at all.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 22, 2021, 03:24:42 PM
Quote from: elephant on December 22, 2021, 03:16:44 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 21, 2021, 11:31:34 PM
Noel is terrible. He makes me yearn for the more inspired play of Jarred Jefferies and Jordan Hill. I do not know what we could get for him, but I do not want to see him play anymore in a Knicks uni. It is too depressing.

I do not get this take at all.

Me either.

Our brother is prone to rather extreme mood swings. 

I think he mentioned Jordan Hill just to curry favor with Kiid. 

He neglected to include Kenny Walker.   
Title: Re: Guess Who?
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 22, 2021, 03:48:04 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 22, 2021, 02:03:44 PM
Fourty year old Joe Johnson signs with the Celtics. 

Golly.

Awesome.  Joe has kept in fine shape while dominating Big Three
Title: Re: Finally
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 22, 2021, 03:49:26 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 22, 2021, 01:59:23 PM
Nice win against the Piss Tones. 

But Washington represents a formidable challenge on Thursday. 

A lot of really tough match ups. 

They have depth, good coaching, energy, and a lot of serious skill players.

Yes

And you can chalk up a L on Sunday unless Trae goes down
Title: Say whaaat?
Post by: carlos123 on December 22, 2021, 04:12:29 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 22, 2021, 02:15:02 AM
Fizdale can still inspire and lead a team to the same level of excellence as he did in New York.

Fac, you have a very forgiving memory. Fizz, really? level of excellence???

LORDY HAVE MERCY!!!

Quote from: carlos123 on December 21, 2021, 07:23:34 PM
I also want Fac on the coaching staff, provided he has no input on trades.

"no input on trades" includes the rest of the coaching staff, especially the head coach.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLUg-VPNjQZkFlrow22G5k-8CuX5sgrLyPYjhbBNi_m0Zj1QVOqXYhcG78CBUIzkWYJTS-00zFF7B-y7H2Nv4B-QUEhTD4f-wkfKtWYBWjq95Q3Xx2k6EU5V_Bzns1xHxtqT8xz9Uc61HgPQ0soxB0mH=w683-h445-no?authuser=0)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 22, 2021, 05:27:23 PM
Trae on the CV shelf, along with Capela, Gallo, LouW, TLC.
ATL just signed lance Stephenson, who is/was rather in the mold of Cam Reddish.
Lance surprisingly just 31.

I don't get the idea that we need better defense and should move RJB to the 2nd unit.
Mitch and 4 poor defenders is not a recipe for success.
Yes, Burks has been expending more energy on D and generating some steals, but off the ball and on screens he's often a disaster (as I've noted in many games this season).

I'd be fine seeing what we have with Kemba- Burks - RJB - Randle - Mitch
Or starting Fournier and playing him heavily 1st half and Burks heavily 2nd half, as Thibs did for a while.  or Rose starting in place of Kemba.
But Mitch and 4 sub-par defenders is not gonna end well.

Knix need to start a PG, Randle as our main man, Mitch and RJB as defenders who can score and a shooter (Burks, Fournier, Grimes).  And figure out how to make it work.  Fournier has always deferred to Randle and passed to Julius alot, but now Randle is starting to look for Fournier.  Kemba seems to be developing a connection with Mitch.  RJB will have to be the glue guy.  Yank Fournier when he starts tuning out, or have him come off the bench. 

We already have nice bench chemistry between Rose-Taj and IQ-ObiT.
Just need to design the offense and defense to maximize the players we have and develop that elusive chemistry.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 22, 2021, 05:32:48 PM
Watch the 2nd half of Raps-BKY, where Barnes goes toe-to-toe with KD on both ends.
A real revelation.
This rook could be a bigger (and better) Paul George/Jayson Tatum.
Title: CoVid To NoVid
Post by: chipstern on December 22, 2021, 06:08:10 PM
Obi is cleared...

One down

Six to go
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 22, 2021, 08:20:21 PM
Thanks for the Hawks update, Bo.  Optimism for a win v Hawks?  (Huerter now also out)

Watching now vs Orlando, where they trail by 9 early.  Lance on the court, er... "orchestrating".  Some unrecognizables for each side.
Title: FIZZ LEVEL OF EXCELLENCE
Post by: carlos123 on December 22, 2021, 08:47:32 PM
Career Record
YEAR   TEAM                    G     W         L      PCT          PLAYOFF W      PLAYOFF L
2020   New York Knicks   22       4        18     .182                   --              --
2019   New York Knicks   82     17        65     .207                   --              --

On the positive side, NO PLAYOFF LOSSES 😁
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 22, 2021, 09:07:02 PM
Derrick Rose out 8 weeks for ankle surgery.

Kemba has his chance
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on December 22, 2021, 09:07:10 PM
Rose to have surgery , out 8 weeks...Kemba's second coming or will youth be served?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 22, 2021, 09:31:18 PM
(https://i.redd.it/eeoufyigz6781.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on December 22, 2021, 09:32:26 PM
probably so...but with Covid protocols and all, there's going to be lots of  opportunities for everyone.  The whole thing about Thibs not talking to Kemba at all after he was benched - seems very wrongheaded...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 22, 2021, 09:32:30 PM
...probably both.


(and yes, let's move RJ to the second unit. Once he actually develops he can come back to the first. Both Burks and Grimes have better D and better O.)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 22, 2021, 09:33:12 PM
(https://preview.redd.it/5bm0ruexx5781.png?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=c8460e3416bd4ef6cc3859047f6e1eb8fea589eb)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 22, 2021, 09:35:10 PM
Quote from: Jack Straw on December 22, 2021, 09:32:26 PM
probably so...but with Covid protocols and all, there's going to be lots of  opportunities for everyone.  The whole thing about Thibs not talking to Kemba at all after he was benched - seems very wrongheaded...

Yeah Thibs should be reprimanded by someone in the MSG offices. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 22, 2021, 09:36:34 PM
lol, who was checking Cunningham the most? Burks, Fournier?..(and doing a pretty good job). They'll prob be in the protocols next.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 22, 2021, 09:36:44 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on December 22, 2021, 09:32:30 PM

(and yes, let's move RJ to the second unit. Once he actually develops he can come back to the first. Both Burks and Grimes have better D and better O.)

Doesn't make sense to do that to RJ.  Instantly decreases his value and standing in the league plus kills his confidence.  I would keep him in the first unit.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 22, 2021, 09:38:29 PM
F that. Times up on confidence building. He's had more "free minutes" than anybody else on the roster. Play your best five. If he wants more, I'm with Thibs here, work and earn it. Tired of seeing his 1-on-3 fumble forays at the rim that turn into instant buckets for the other team at the other end.
Title: Re: Say whaaat?
Post by: Kam on December 22, 2021, 09:38:31 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 22, 2021, 04:12:29 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 22, 2021, 02:15:02 AM
Fizdale can still inspire and lead a team to the same level of excellence as he did in New York.

Fac, you have a very forgiving memory. Fizz, really? level of excellence???

LORDY HAVE MERCY!!!


Fix your sarcasm detector.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 22, 2021, 09:58:02 PM
Quote from: Jack Straw on December 22, 2021, 09:07:10 PM
Rose to have surgery , out 8 weeks...Kemba's second coming or will youth be served?

Lets go!!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 22, 2021, 10:00:40 PM
Get to see Kings up close tonight - NBA TV vs Clippers.
Title: Re: Say whaaat?
Post by: carlos123 on December 22, 2021, 10:10:56 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 22, 2021, 09:38:31 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 22, 2021, 04:12:29 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 22, 2021, 02:15:02 AM
Fizdale can still inspire and lead a team to the same level of excellence as he did in New York.

Fac, you have a very forgiving memory. Fizz, really? level of excellence???

LORDY HAVE MERCY!!!


Fix your sarcasm detector.

Kamster, I also thought it was a joke, but about what? He ain't "inspiring and leading" any team right now. Just an assistant some place.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 22, 2021, 10:20:48 PM
Rose injury is awful, but we've got depth.

And you can argue it clarifies things.

Walker stays with the first crew. When they're back, I'd like to see a reprise of IQ and McBride coming in together and tearing things up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 22, 2021, 10:22:30 PM
Absolutely, Elephant

Deuce gets his bigger shot now.

What of Burks?  Not sure.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 23, 2021, 12:45:29 AM
I can catch the 2nd half or 4Q of West Coast games at lunchtime.  So I tend to see Sacto a lot.

Only saw the last 5 mins: Hield bricked a bunch of 3's, TyH did what he could, Barnes was definitely out on the court.  Muddy got 8 mins at backup PG.  CV a boon for washed up ex-NBAers.

Buddy Hield 5-22 FG v LAC.  And the announcers mentioned the Clips were attacking his D.
Ship that fool out!
Only keeper in Sackcloth is TyH. 
Richuan fine as a bench energizer.
Dav Mitch is a terrific defender, but has to be able to shoot.

I like how TyH keeps things simple and mostly doesn't try to overdo anything.  Reads the game and takes what's there.  Makes basic probes into the defense, simple passes on the perimeter.  Mixes in some rim attacks and 3's to keep the defense guessing.  But mostly just simple basic hoops.
Title: Au Contraire
Post by: chipstern on December 23, 2021, 10:39:02 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on December 22, 2021, 09:38:29 PM
F that. Times up on confidence building. He's had more "free minutes" than anybody else on the roster. Play your best five. If he wants more, I'm with Thibs here, work and earn it. Tired of seeing his 1-on-3 fumble forays at the rim that turn into instant buckets for the other team at the other end.

Don't quite see it as a demotion.

I think RJ would be a better match with the Second Unit in the absence of Rose and Noel, given the pace at which they might play with a Quickley/McBride back court.

Gibson/Sims
Toppin
RJ/Grimes
IQ
Deuce

Robinson
Randle
Burks
Fournier
Walker/IQ/McBride

PS: Westchester just played a game vs. a Mexican squad.  Samanic was inactive.  Apparently has a foot injury.  PF/SF AAMIR SIMS was listed as center, shooting and boarding well. 
Title: Xmas Greetings From The TOPPINs
Post by: chipstern on December 23, 2021, 10:44:03 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FHPmFjaXsA0disR?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 23, 2021, 10:56:15 AM
Smart guy.
Title: Tonight
Post by: chipstern on December 23, 2021, 11:44:54 AM
Obi

AND

RJ

Out of protocols
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 23, 2021, 12:40:43 PM
Booyah!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 23, 2021, 07:37:26 PM
Beal out
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 23, 2021, 07:42:38 PM
Walker Fournier Burks Randle Robinson


Finally!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 23, 2021, 08:05:42 PM
Danuel House is now a Knickerbocker

Cool.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 23, 2021, 08:11:36 PM
Knicks a -10 in 1:34 with Kemba on the bench, first quarter
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 23, 2021, 09:25:23 PM
Nice seeing Dot back.

Evan is playing like Blacksox guy throwing a series. He should be investigated.

Do not miss Noel for even a second.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 23, 2021, 09:36:05 PM
I want Randall gone and that is that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 23, 2021, 09:42:20 PM
Unless there is some physical explanation for what I saw this evening.



*** OK I'll settle for benching his a$$ for twenty games min.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 23, 2021, 09:54:38 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 23, 2021, 09:25:23 PM
Nice seeing Dot back.

Evan is playing like Blacksox guy throwing a series. He should be investigated.

Do not miss Noel for even a second.

Are you fucking kidding?

We basically cannot stop them from scoring, and you don't think Noel is missed?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 23, 2021, 09:56:53 PM
Knicks down by six.

15 seconds left and the Knicks bring the ball in.

So what do we do?

Give the ball to Randall of course so he can dribble up the floor and get fouled on a layup!

Hey, at some point, you gotta go, do we have a coach? Because in key situations, I don't see it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 23, 2021, 09:58:45 PM
Meanwhile, is it hilarious or grim that Randall missed the first free throw....

and then for reasons only known to him...

goes on to make the (utterly pointless) second one, instead of playing it for a rebound.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 23, 2021, 10:26:35 PM
Quote from: elephant on December 23, 2021, 09:54:38 PM
We basically cannot stop them from scoring, and you don't think Noel is missed?

I do not get Facil's going all jerry yang on Father Noel.

Looks like Wiz shot well from everywhere and got tons of FT's.
Post game, Wiz Tv was praising Avdija's D on Randle and others.

Certainly seemed like could/should have been a W.
Kemba nearly a 40 point trip double.  And we lose.

Our better defenders missing -- RJB, Noel and Rose out.
IQ out as well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 23, 2021, 10:35:57 PM
Randle was awful.  Kemba heroic.  Thibs wake the fuck up. 
Title: Coach Thibs
Post by: carlos123 on December 23, 2021, 10:37:02 PM
Quote from: elephant on December 23, 2021, 09:56:53 PM
Knicks down by six.

15 seconds left and the Knicks bring the ball in.

So what do we do?

Give the ball to Randall of course so he can dribble up the floor and get fouled on a layup!

Hey, at some point, you gotta go, do we have a coach? Because in key situations, I don't see it.

That makes two of us wondering about Thibs, well actually I made up my mind he's got to go after he banished Kemba and didn't even bother to talk to the man.

I want Mike Miller back, and Chip wants Simon Bolivar. Go figure with Chip.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 23, 2021, 10:39:37 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on December 23, 2021, 09:36:05 PM
I want Randall gone and that is that.

Watching him play is painful. He literally looks lost. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 23, 2021, 10:41:57 PM
But I'd fire Thibs and take a chance the next coach can get more from this team.  The record is inexcusable, especially at home.  He has managed to push all the wrong buttons.
Title: Hysteroscopy pinnacles canada meds cialis horrible sending prostate-classically insensitive.
Post by: orezixijakowo on December 23, 2021, 11:03:32 PM
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Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 23, 2021, 11:53:30 PM
Quote from: elephant on December 23, 2021, 09:54:38 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 23, 2021, 09:25:23 PM
Nice seeing Dot back.

Evan is playing like Blacksox guy throwing a series. He should be investigated.

Do not miss Noel for even a second.

Are you fucking kidding?

We basically cannot stop them from scoring, and you don't think Noel is missed?

Forget the 2 of 12 shooting and atrocious ball handling. Fournier was doing something I had never seen before. Most every NBA player gets beat off the dribble, but when Evan was getting dusted by every Wiz perimeter player he put in the extra effort to get to the spot where he could cut off the help defender reacting to the blow by. He set the best picks against Knicks this whole game.

Gimpy Noel getting pushed around and fumbling the ball away would not have helped at all.

Randle provides enough to counteract some of his inexplicably bad plays. Neither Noel or Fournier provide enough to balance their ineptitude on this team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 24, 2021, 03:42:12 AM
Calls to cashier coach Thibs.  Jeez.
He got us an exciting year last season, with an identity and a purpose and a team of togetherness.  He's also been developing plenty of yute something he was not known for.

I wonder how on board Thibs was with the O-for-D swap of Kemba and FourEva in place of Elf/Bullox (and at a much higher price).  He sure dumped Kemba once things weren't going well, though maybe Fournier's spaciness and inconsistency was more of an issue.  The Celts didn't do well with a Kemba-Fournier startling backcourt and moved on quickly.

To me it's simple.  If Randle is your bell cow, surround him with defenders -- Mitch/Noel - RJB, and one G who can D up.  Instead of splashing money on another SG, we should have been hunting up a starting PG.  Kemba, with his age, size and knee issues is a fill-in, not long term solution. 

But let Thibs work with what he's got.  Sure he handled the Kemba thing questionably.  But seem coaches prefer to have their assistants handle players complaints and issues.  I'm more concerned about the decision to drop/scapegoat Kemba in the first place.

All coaches have flaws.  Thibs deserves to work through the mildly tough times.  Most thought this was a circa .500 team.  I think I picked 43 W's.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 24, 2021, 05:26:33 AM
Start of 1Q, Kemba does a Scurry style run under the basket and his man thinks he's flaring out to the 3 point line, so Kemba cuts back towards the rim, compromises the D and hits Burks for an open elbow 3.  Nice action.
FourEva hits a 3 off a high Mitch screen.
Knix offense humming.

But right after his 3, Fournier drifts all the way from his man in the weakside corner to stand directly in the center of the paint just inside the restricted zone.  There was absolutely nothing going on, so it's bizarre Fournier left his man, and the middle of the paint is way too far to leave a corner shooter.  Kispert knocks down the open 3.  And of course giving a shooter confidence can make for a long night.  Awful defensive lapse from Fournier, negating his 3.

Ah, looks like I was right about Knix running a Scurry play to start the game, as a little over 3 mins in, the Knix have Kemba run under the basket and set a cross-screen for Fournier before flaring out.  Classic Scurry action.

1:52 left in 1Q and Avdija cuts right past a bewildered Fournier for a layup.
Smart play by Avdija who started to cut, but Fournier blocked the lane, so Avdija instead started to screen Randle, but noticed FourEva looking inside at the ball, so Avdija aborted his screen and made the cut inside.  Bad D, but nice activity and acumen from Avdija. 

Seemed like every Wiz scored on Fournier 1Q.  Then 45 secs left, Ev dribbles around and shoots a quick straight on 3.  His man leaks out, long rebound, Fournier stands still, and uh-oh.  When you shoot that straight on 3, you're responsible for getting back.
A really terrible defensive 1Q from Fournier.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 24, 2021, 09:57:10 AM
A real joy seeing

a)  the development of Wizards young guys and evidence of what a solid coaching job can bring to a  "together" group (notwithstanding Harrell's recent complaints about not seeing the rock).  Credit Silas.

b)  Kemba

Fun game.  Fun league.

Let's win tomorrow then we can talk.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 24, 2021, 10:01:59 AM
To me it's simple.  If Randle is your bell cow, surround him with defenders -- Mitch/Noel - RJB, and one G who can D up.  Instead of splashing money on another SG, we should have been hunting up a starting PG.  Kemba, with his age, size and knee issues is a fill-in, not long term solution.


If we really want to analyze why Ball is not our PG, then lets do so.

Was Chicago his desired destination or did they simply show him more love?

In short, was Lonzo Ball willing to come to MSG had we put the hard press on him?

After that we have to analyze deals for Paul and Westbrook that were not made.  And continue to analyze what could become of Russell and a couple of others across the league via TRADE.  Simply waiting for free agents, while it did bear fruit this year in the opportunity at Ball, often leaves one wanting.

One more note - falling in love with our "yute" doesnt help.  Thoughts of a new guy coming in taking minutes from a McBride, a Quickley, even ROSE for God's sake was absolute folly.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 24, 2021, 11:03:39 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 24, 2021, 09:57:10 AM
A real joy seeing

a)  the development of Wizards young guys and evidence of what a solid coaching job can bring to a  "together" group (notwithstanding Harrell's recent complaints about not seeing the rock).  Credit Silas.

b)  Kemba

Fun game.  Fun league.



Yes on both counts.

That's why it was especially disheartening not seeing our "bell cow" participating in the Fun, at all, mentally, physically, for most of the game.

Not a one-off this season. More like a ten-off. Not good.


**** What they say?? If he ain't the man, he don't give no damn


*** and nobody be throwing up any numbers to say otherwise, that shit was EYE-TESTED BY HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE. Skip the PCR, we already know. Better better hope it's one mad dyspeptic baby at home or chronic hemorrhoids.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 24, 2021, 12:13:03 PM
http://empiresportsmedia.com/new-york-knicks/one-knicks-youngster-who-should-be-eating-into-evan-fourniers-minutes/ (http://empiresportsmedia.com/new-york-knicks/one-knicks-youngster-who-should-be-eating-into-evan-fourniers-minutes/)
Title: Jeez
Post by: carlos123 on December 24, 2021, 06:26:56 PM
Quote from: BoZizzley on December 24, 2021, 03:42:12 AM
Calls to cashier coach Thibs.  Jeez.

Jeez... LMAO

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLV7Nah3y9zFx0ZwhMTQqgbVUoe8qPlhdxeZRqoD98xS4a7H_qOfoUDED1kLIH_uRYiSgehlUvovF4zkzxBwnoWocfpFRRwWsdRM-fSk5uYIluj7FwUd9m4A2pMJ3DGB_xr44sBptua-wjJSLJwkrBOG=w399-h534-no?authuser=0)
Title: Uncommon Sense
Post by: chipstern on December 24, 2021, 07:07:38 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 23, 2021, 10:37:02 PM
Quote from: elephant on December 23, 2021, 09:56:53 PM
Knicks down by six.

15 seconds left and the Knicks bring the ball in.

So what do we do?

Give the ball to Randall of course so he can dribble up the floor and get fouled on a layup!

Hey, at some point, you gotta go, do we have a coach? Because in key situations, I don't see it.

That makes two of us wondering about Thibs, well actually I made up my mind he's got to go after he banished Kemba and didn't even bother to talk to the man.

I want Mike Miller back, and Chip wants Simon Bolivar. Go figure with Chip. 

Yeah, Mike Miller. 

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/DifferentEnchantedAffenpinscher-max-1mb.gif)

Go figure....

(https://i.gifer.com/9SmI.gif)

We don't need no stinking logic. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 24, 2021, 07:12:10 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on December 24, 2021, 11:03:39 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 24, 2021, 09:57:10 AM
A real joy seeing

a)  the development of Wizards young guys and evidence of what a solid coaching job can bring to a  "together" group (notwithstanding Harrell's recent complaints about not seeing the rock).  Credit Silas.

b)  Kemba

Fun game.  Fun league.



Yes on both counts.

That's why it was especially disheartening not seeing our "bell cow" participating in the Fun, at all, mentally, physically, for most of the game.

Not a one-off this season. More like a ten-off. Not good.


**** What they say?? If he ain't the man, he don't give no damn


*** and nobody be throwing up any numbers to say otherwise, that shit was EYE-TESTED BY HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE. Skip the PCR, we already know. Better better hope it's one mad dyspeptic baby at home or chronic hemorrhoids.

Credit UNSELD. 

Silas is in Houston. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 24, 2021, 07:13:14 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 24, 2021, 03:42:12 AM
Calls to cashier coach Thibs.  Jeez.
He got us an exciting year last season, with an identity and a purpose and a team of togetherness.  He's also been developing plenty of yute something he was not known for.

I wonder how on board Thibs was with the O-for-D swap of Kemba and FourEva in place of Elf/Bullox (and at a much higher price).  He sure dumped Kemba once things weren't going well, though maybe Fournier's spaciness and inconsistency was more of an issue.  The Celts didn't do well with a Kemba-Fournier startling backcourt and moved on quickly.

To me it's simple.  If Randle is your bell cow, surround him with defenders -- Mitch/Noel - RJB, and one G who can D up.  Instead of splashing money on another SG, we should have been hunting up a starting PG.  Kemba, with his age, size and knee issues is a fill-in, not long term solution. 

But let Thibs work with what he's got.  Sure he handled the Kemba thing questionably.  But seem coaches prefer to have their assistants handle players complaints and issues.  I'm more concerned about the decision to drop/scapegoat Kemba in the first place.

All coaches have flaws.  Thibs deserves to work through the mildly tough times.  Most thought this was a circa .500 team.  I think I picked 43 W's.

And for MIKE MILLER no less. 

But Brother C is laughing his ass off. 

Go figure. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 24, 2021, 08:15:04 PM
Fire Thibs because Julius cant do math


heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 24, 2021, 08:16:17 PM
But you are seeing some cracks with Thibs that may explain why he wasnt highly sought after

One day - maybe - my choice of coach and theirs will match
Title: Simon Bolivar
Post by: carlos123 on December 24, 2021, 08:23:03 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 24, 2021, 07:07:38 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 23, 2021, 10:37:02 PM
Quote from: elephant on December 23, 2021, 09:56:53 PM
Knicks down by six.

15 seconds left and the Knicks bring the ball in.

So what do we do?

Give the ball to Randall of course so he can dribble up the floor and get fouled on a layup!

Hey, at some point, you gotta go, do we have a coach? Because in key situations, I don't see it.

That makes two of us wondering about Thibs, well actually I made up my mind he's got to go after he banished Kemba and didn't even bother to talk to the man.

I want Mike Miller back, and Chip wants Simon Bolivar. Go figure with Chip. 

Yeah, Mike Miller. 

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/DifferentEnchantedAffenpinscher-max-1mb.gif)

Go figure....

(https://i.gifer.com/9SmI.gif)

We don't need no stinking logic.
Just for you, Chip.
(https://www.biography.com/.image/ar_4:3%2Cc_fill%2Ccs_srgb%2Cfl_progressive%2Cq_auto:good%2Cw_1200/MTE4MDAzNDEwMzMxMTQxNjQ2/simon-bolivar-241196-1-402.jpg)
Title: Mr. heh (and lol) strikes YET again #43,840
Post by: carlos123 on December 24, 2021, 08:26:58 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on December 24, 2021, 08:15:04 PM
Fire Thibs because Julius cant do math


heh

Chamaco-s pure logic 🤪
Title: This one for Chip also
Post by: carlos123 on December 24, 2021, 08:44:36 PM
(https://dailyknicks.com/wp-content/uploads/getty-images/2017/07/1190710236.jpeg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 24, 2021, 11:52:27 PM
After a hot 10-3 start, Wiz proceeded to crater going 6-12 prior to the Knick game.
So worse than the Knix the past 18 games.
Before beating Utah and NYK, WAS last 4 wins were DET in OT, MIN, DAL and OKC by 2.
That was in a 4-12 stretch of a soft schedule.
So Unseld and Wiz hardly a model.  They've had roughly the same season as the Knix, just with a bit more front end winning.  And pulled out 2 or 3 close W's that we didn't.

ATL with 11 players out:

Quote
nine members of Hawks being in the league's health and safety protocols:  Trae Young, Clint Capela, Kevin Huerter, Lou Williams, Timothe Luwawu-Cabarrot and Sharife Cooper, Danilo Gallinari, Wes Iwundu and Onyeka Okongwu.

Two more players, De'Andre Hunter and Solomon Hill, are out with long-term injuries. With Cameron Reddish and Delon Wright both probable to play with ankle sprains
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 25, 2021, 08:09:52 AM
ATL with 11 players out:


Ridiculous that league is making them play this game
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 25, 2021, 12:04:51 PM
Sims out for Knix (CV)
House also not in the house. Bad finger.
Title: Old Women
Post by: chipstern on December 25, 2021, 01:22:03 PM
Yes, so many things to be frustrated about. 

Inconsistency.

Turnovers.

Defensive Lapses. 

Three Point Vulnerability.

Shooting Slumps.

Lack Of Motion And Movement. 

Thibs' Stubborness. 

Kemba Exiled.

And how do the old women on Elba respond.

Fire Thibs.

Trade Julius.

Fuck RJ.

Set Fire To Fournier. 

Ship Nerlens Out On A Slow Boat To China.

NOT SAYING I DON'T HAVE ISSUES WITH ALL OF THE ABOVE.  For Sure.  I'm an avid JR booster, but his TOs drive me to distraction. 

But absurd panic trades. 

Off with their head public dunkings.

Fire your 2021 coach of the year in midseason and replace him with a white bread career scrub. 

Let's see which Knicks team comes out in the second half. 

ALL OF US ARE FRUSTRATED. 

But how about getting the knots out your drawers, and without giving anyone a hall pass, stand by your Knicks and abide as they work to figure things out for fuck's sake. 

I may indeed be a Positive Pussy, but hey, better than being a Trojan Woman, the Knicks are not the only team struggling big time. 

In the East?

Sixers, Celtics and Hornets all knotted at .500

Hawks, Raptors, Knicks, Pacers all taking on water. 

In the West?

Lakers, Mav, Nuggets all below .500

This season ain't a sprint, it's a marathon. 
Title: Incremental Progress
Post by: chipstern on December 25, 2021, 01:58:21 PM
Yes, No TRAE. 

Julius still with a number of cringe worthy Keystone Kops moments, but overall, much more efficient and under control, precipitating momvement, boarding and hitting his threes.

Grimes making the most of his IQ minutes.  Missed his share of shots, but damn, when they go in, such a lovely trajectory...can he ever shoot.  But again, begins with his D. 

Fournier more focused. 

Solid Mitchell. 

Much better ball movement. 

Always helps when we are hitting our threes, but better shots off of better motion. 

Kemba coming down to Earth as far as his shooting, but a a triple double.  Like Kendrick said, off of his exile, Kemba remained focused and professional and positive, and now the Knicks are getting the best of him.  AND WHAT AN EXAMPLE Kemba HAS SET FOR Knox, and Grimes, and McBride and Sims, Obi and IQ that NEXT MAN UP ain't no BS. 

Still a FuckLoad of work to do, but progress, such as it is. 

Let's see if we can sustain it for 48 let alone the next game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 25, 2021, 05:18:13 PM
Quote
Inconsistency.

Turnovers.

Defensive Lapses. 

Three Point Vulnerability.

Shooting Slumps.

Lack Of Motion And Movement. 

Thibs Stubborness. 

Kemba Exiled.

And how do the old women on Elba respond.

Fire Thibs.

To be fair, that list reads like a list of reasons why a coach was canned.  I am all for giving him time to right the ship but the seat is definitely heating up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 25, 2021, 05:20:16 PM
Tough loss for Celtics, who play just 8 - and no Joe Johnson.  Burn 11 point 4th Q lead.  Tatum 0-2 with 2 TO down stretch as Brown takes big last shot,
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 25, 2021, 05:21:26 PM
Also I wonder if Thibs will try to take credit for Kemba's turnaround due to his "tough love" coaching by not speaking to him after the demotion.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 25, 2021, 06:18:06 PM
Not really his style

But Walker does look fresh.  Maybe the early gring was getting to him mentally as well as physically
Title: Re: Old TROJAN Women
Post by: carlos123 on December 25, 2021, 06:53:38 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 25, 2021, 01:22:03 PM
Yes, so many things to be frustrated about. 

Inconsistency.

Turnovers.

Defensive Lapses. 

Three Point Vulnerability.

Shooting Slumps.

Lack Of Motion And Movement. 

Thibs' Stubborness. 

Kemba Exiled.

And how do the old women on Elba respond.

Fire Thibs. YESSSSSSS!!!

Trade Julius. NOOOOOOOO!!!

Fuck RJ. NOOOOOOOO!!!

Set Fire To Fournier.  NOOOOOOOO!!!

Ship Nerlens Out On A Slow Boat To China.NOOOOOOOO!!!

NOT SAYING I DON'T HAVE ISSUES WITH ALL OF THE ABOVE.  For Sure.  I'm an avid JR booster, but his TOs drive me to distraction. 

But absurd panic trades. 

Off with their head public dunkings.

Fire your 2021 coach of the year in midseason and replace him with a white bread career scrub. MIKE MILLER!!!

I may AM indeed be a Positive Pussy, but hey, better than being a Trojan Woman ?, the Knicks are not the only team struggling big time. 


Responded above, plus the following:

IT IS MILLER TIME BABY!

NOTHING WRONG WITH BEING A POSITIVE PUSSY, OR AN OLD (TROJAN?) WOMAN!
(https://www.penguin.co.uk/content/dam/prh/articles/archive/women-of-troy-960.jpg.transform/PRHDesktopWide_wide/image.jpg)
IT IS MILLER TIME BABY!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 25, 2021, 08:05:10 PM
If we made a change from Thibs it wouldnt be to Mike Fuckin Miller
Title: Hopeful
Post by: carlos123 on December 25, 2021, 09:05:14 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on December 25, 2021, 08:05:10 PM
If we made a change from Thibs it wouldnt be to Mike Fuckin Miller

Now I am really, really HOPEFUL.
- Help Chamaco Cartero! -
(he needs it much more than Andy Parker)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 25, 2021, 10:59:17 PM
Kemba averaging 40 mins per game last 4 games.

Stan Johnson getting into Harden.
Always a strong defender.
Hope he can stick with the Lakes, who could use the extra defense.

3 mins left down 4 and Melo gets a dumb Tech by shoving a guy after the play right in front of the official.  Harden misses the FT.

Kind of perfect when you're rooting against both teams.
Westbrook submitted a candidate for worst triple-double ever.
Kiiid still thinks Westbrook is a valuable player and not a disaster ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 26, 2021, 09:43:49 AM
Long season, Bo.

Russ helps LeBron, as LBJ can rest more.

For Knicks the meld with Randle might be questionable.

Melo had a big game, seems.

May have hit 5 team parlay had I been picking yesterday.  Though in the end may have gone with Hawks, despite short roster.  Surely was in on Jazz, Bucks and Nets.
Title: Miller Time
Post by: chipstern on December 26, 2021, 08:45:44 PM
17-27
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 26, 2021, 08:47:33 PM
Here ya go, Bo


https://brobible.com/sports/article/lakers-russell-westbrook-lebron-james/
Title: Re: Miller Time... YESSSSSSSSSS!!!
Post by: carlos123 on December 26, 2021, 09:08:20 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 26, 2021, 08:45:44 PM
17-27

https://theknickswall.com/what-is-case-keeping-knicks-head-coach-mike-miller/ (https://theknickswall.com/what-is-case-keeping-knicks-head-coach-mike-miller/)

(https://theknickswall.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/keepMike-1280x640.jpg)

THE RISE OF MIKE MILLER
His journey to the NBA was not a prototypical one. After serving as a small-school college basketball coach ,most notably, serving as the head coach of Texas State and Eastern Illinois, Miller became a G League underdog story. He caught on with the Spurs G League affiliate, the Austin Toros, before ultimately being hired by basketball legend Phil Jackson to run the Knicks G League team. And while the Knicks themselves floundered, Miller Westchester DubKnicks flourished, eventually earning Miller the 2017 18 G League Coach of the Year award.

Miller, of course, was then given a seat on Fizdale bench, before ultimately succeeding him. The man described by others as a basketball-lifer immediately impacted a young Knicks team with his Xs and Os, unflappable demeanor, and impressive knowledge of the game. In fact, he was originally hired by Jackson because of his knowledge of the Triangle Offense, perhaps one of the most intricate offenses in NBA history. Well, at least when you do not have Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen, Kobe Bryant, Shaquille ONeal, or Pau Gasol on your team. Still, its read and react complexities make it an incredibly difficult offense to implement, especially in the modern NBA, where roster turnover is at an all time high and a head coach job security, or lack thereof, is at an all time low.

Miller did not utilize the Triangle with the Knicks, but it further displayed his knowledge of the game. And watching him coach last years albatross of a Knicks team was even more proof of that notion.

It was clear from the start that Miller was going to have the Knicks play to their strengths. He took the ball out of Julius Randle hands, much to the delight of Knicks fans, and isolated less. The team took fewer mid range shots and scored more points in the paint, as Miller took better advantage of the Knicks lone strength, their size. The Knicks, shockingly, were actually second in the league in paint points per game under Miller, with the coach preference for running high screen and rolls undoubtedly playing a large factor. Unsurprisingly, they also scored more, averaging 5.8 more points per 100 possessions than they did under Coach Fizdale. And with a team full of strong individual defenders and a shot blocking phenom down low in Mitchell Robinson, Miller also made the prudent call to switch less and fight over screens more. An old school approach, but far from rocket science, especially given the Bockers roster makeup.

The results were also tangible when it came to their young guys. R.J. Barrett, Robinson, and even Frank Ntilikina improved under Miller. Barrett set a career high (twice!) after Miller took over for Fizdale, scoring 27 points in wins against the Houston Rockets and the Atlanta Hawks. Robinson fouled less and scored more. He also led the league in field goal percentage. And by led the league, I also mean led every single person to play in the NBA ever. So there is that. Miller also made good use of Ntilikina and his untapped versatility, using him both a lead guard and combo guard. He also did something that was once considered the impossible, getting Ntilikina to drive into the paint more. He managed to form a nice pick and roll tandem with Robinson by seasons end.


Of course, Miller had some flaws, and understandably so, he was coaching for his basketball life. The same basketball life he scraped and clawed his way through. Admittedly, his rotations were not always the best, and he gave far more minutes to veterans than we would have liked to see, especially with the playoffs all but out of reach. But his job was to win as many basketball games as he could, and for a guy who needs every bit of an edge to prove himself, he did it the best way he thought he could. And while that may or may not have included playing Bobby Portis an incredibly frustrating amount of minutes every night, Miller still, for the most part, got the best out of his players.

A CASE FOR CONTINUITY
If there is one thing the Knicks need more than anything, it is consistency. Structure. A common vision. With the return of Scott Perry, Leon Rose seems to think so too. Perry was given an uncommon second life under Rose, and with Miller unable to finish out the season, it might be in the teams best interest to see what he could do with a better roster and a full year under his belt.

And while his journey to becoming the Knicks head coach is unusual, it is not all that unprecedented. Look at Toronto Nick Nurse, who was hired from the teams G League to lead the Raptors to a championship in the first year. Make no bones about it, there will not be a championship trophy in NYC next season, but having the infrastructure and continuity in place could lead them in the right direction.

Miller might not be a flashy name, a decorated coach, or a boisterous personality. But he has proven to have the temperament to coach in New York, and he knows the game backward and forward. Considering he has already made a solid impression on Rose, do not totally write off Miller as the head coach next season if things do not work out with their first, and seemingly only, choice. After all, it has happened before.
Title: The [Pause] That [Refreshes]
Post by: chipstern on December 26, 2021, 09:41:31 PM
Thibs is Leon Rose's guy.  They are VERY CLOSE. 

Miller received consideration along with a host of other candidates. 

The idea that Rose would torpedo Thibs, not even halfway through his second season, after helping to rudder the Knicks to their first post season since 2013, is...

Well...

"Dream a little dream for me..."

(https://c.tenor.com/TcDVDXK6Oj0AAAAM/bad-santa-drink.gif)
Title: Re: The [Pause] That [Refreshes]
Post by: carlos123 on December 26, 2021, 09:57:01 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 26, 2021, 09:41:31 PM
Thibs is Leon Rose's guy.  They are VERY CLOSE. 

Miller received consideration along with a host of other candidates. 

The idea that Rose would torpedo Thibs, not even halfway through his second season, after helping to rudder the Knicks to their first post season since 2013, is...

Well...

"Dream a little dream for me..."

(https://c.tenor.com/TcDVDXK6Oj0AAAAM/bad-santa-drink.gif)

I know, Chip, I know.

Still, one can have a Knicks dream once in a while, cant one?

Miller was a very good coach, and not stubborn like you know who. Improved the team from 4 18 in 2020 to 17 27, just by playing to the strengths of the team he inherited all of a sudden, while improving all of his players.

Maybe next season?
Title: The Maltese Carlos
Post by: chipstern on December 26, 2021, 10:04:40 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 26, 2021, 09:57:01 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 26, 2021, 09:41:31 PM
Thibs is Leon Rose's guy.  They are VERY CLOSE. 

Miller received consideration along with a host of other candidates. 

The idea that Rose would torpedo Thibs, not even halfway through his second season, after helping to rudder the Knicks to their first post season since 2013, is...

Well...

"Dream a little dream for me..."

(https://c.tenor.com/TcDVDXK6Oj0AAAAM/bad-santa-drink.gif)

I know, Chip, I know.

Still, one can have a Knicks dream once in a while, cant one?

Miller was a very good coach, and not stubborn like you know who. Improved the team from 4 18 in 2020 to 17 27, just by playing to the strengths of the team he inherited all of a sudden, while improving all of his players.

Maybe next season?

(https://i.gifer.com/75UV.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 26, 2021, 10:05:16 PM
Miller might not be a flashy name, a decorated coach, or a boisterous personality. But he has proven to have the temperament to coach in New York, and he knows the game backward and forward. Considering he has already made a solid impression on Rose, do not totally write off Miller as the head coach next season if things do not work out with their first, and seemingly only, choice. After all, it has happened before.


Sucks we owe Derrick 14.5 next year
Title: Ok Chip
Post by: carlos123 on December 26, 2021, 10:19:53 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 26, 2021, 10:04:40 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 26, 2021, 09:57:01 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 26, 2021, 09:41:31 PM
Thibs is Leon Rose's guy.  They are VERY CLOSE. 

Miller received consideration along with a host of other candidates. 

The idea that Rose would torpedo Thibs, not even halfway through his second season, after helping to rudder the Knicks to their first post season since 2013, is...

Well...

"Dream a little dream for me..."

(https://c.tenor.com/TcDVDXK6Oj0AAAAM/bad-santa-drink.gif)

I know, Chip, I know.

Still, one can have a Knicks dream once in a while, cant one?

Miller was a very good coach, and not stubborn like you know who. Improved the team from 4 18 in 2020 to 17 27, just by playing to the strengths of the team he inherited all of a sudden, while improving all of his players.

Maybe next season?

(https://i.gifer.com/75UV.gif)

(https://c.tenor.com/K4ned52EEloAAAAM/youre-absolutely-right-bud-alexander.gif)

(https://cdn.britannica.com/59/102859-050-599C5142/Humphrey-Bogart-Sam-Spade-Peter-Lorre-film-1941.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 26, 2021, 11:34:30 PM
Why not start Grimes?
Kemba - Grimes - RJB - Randle - Mitch

That's 3 defenders around Kemba and Randle.
Grimes making a case for being our best 2-way player.
If Grimey fouls a lot, we have Fournier and Burks.

With all the CV shuffling going on leaguewide, no one would even blink if Thibs started Grimes.
See how we do with better starting unit D and less FourEva spaciness.

Basically Kemba and Fournier have no chemistry and are a poor defensive tandem.  Let's go with the theory that Kemba and Fournier together aren't gonna get you anywhere.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 26, 2021, 11:39:54 PM
Get you in playoff contention - which is all anyone expected this season

The plug wouldnt be pulled so quickly on Fournier unless there was insubordination.

4 of his last 5 have been solid
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 27, 2021, 12:36:58 AM
It's not just one game with Westbrook.  He's always trying to do too much on his own.  The prior game, Russ had 6 2nd half turnovers.  And teams just leave him open, clogging driving lanes and daring him to shoot 3's.  He's a hot mess on O, and his D is terrible as well. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 27, 2021, 02:54:38 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 26, 2021, 11:34:30 PM
Why not start Grimes?
Kemba - Grimes - RJB - Randle - Mitch

That's 3 defenders around Kemba and Randle.
Grimes making a case for being our best 2-way player.
If Grimey fouls a lot, we have Fournier and Burks.

With all the CV shuffling going on leaguewide, no one would even blink if Thibs started Grimes.
See how we do with better starting unit D and less FourEva spaciness.

Basically Kemba and Fournier have no chemistry and are a poor defensive tandem.  Let's go with the theory that Kemba and Fournier together aren't gonna get you anywhere.

Our best option by far.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 27, 2021, 02:56:58 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 26, 2021, 10:05:16 PM
Miller might not be a flashy name, a decorated coach, or a boisterous personality. But he has proven to have the temperament to coach in New York, and he knows the game backward and forward. Considering he has already made a solid impression on Rose, do not totally write off Miller as the head coach next season if things do not work out with their first, and seemingly only, choice. After all, it has happened before.


Sucks we owe Derrick 14.5 next year

He was talking about Leon, you poxy putz.

Derrick is a bargain.

Fournier and Noel are our only two dead weight contracts.
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Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 27, 2021, 09:45:41 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 27, 2021, 12:36:58 AM
It's not just one game with Westbrook.  He's always trying to do too much on his own.  The prior game, Russ had 6 2nd half turnovers.  And teams just leave him open, clogging driving lanes and daring him to shoot 3's.  He's a hot mess on O, and his D is terrible as well.

Its OK - we all cherry pick stats occasionally

Fact is Russ has shot less this year - less than any year after age 23 - and at a higher rate than his career mark (equal on 3s).  Assists are down, as they were when he played with ball dominant Harden.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 27, 2021, 10:05:34 AM
Barrett must be traded while there is still a market
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 27, 2021, 11:25:37 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 27, 2021, 02:54:38 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 26, 2021, 11:34:30 PM
Why not start Grimes?
Kemba - Grimes - RJB - Randle - Mitch

That's 3 defenders around Kemba and Randle.
Grimes making a case for being our best 2-way player.
If Grimey fouls a lot, we have Fournier and Burks.

With all the CV shuffling going on leaguewide, no one would even blink if Thibs started Grimes.
See how we do with better starting unit D and less FourEva spaciness.

Basically Kemba and Fournier have no chemistry and are a poor defensive tandem.  Let's go with the theory that Kemba and Fournier together aren't gonna get you anywhere.

Our best option by far.

Among nearly 400 players who have played at least 100 minutes this season, Grimes' 11.0 threes attempted per 36 minutes ranks eighth.

His place in the rotation would seem to be secure.

Grimes became the first Knicks rookie to hit five 3-pointers in consecutive games.
Most impressive about the feat was that it came over a 13-day span after Grimes entered COVID-19 protocol.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 27, 2021, 11:32:33 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 27, 2021, 10:05:34 AM
Barrett must be traded while there is still a market

Your ignorance is both expansive and exhaustive.
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Title: Thibs
Post by: Kam on December 27, 2021, 01:34:25 PM
I'm using Julius Randle's long range and mid-range shooting %s this year vs last year to make a point about Coach Thibs and how maybe he got too much credit last season and we shouldn't absolve him from guilt this year by pointing to how he won coach of the year last season as if that makes him above criticism.

Randle shot 41.1% from 3 last season.  It's down to 33.7% this year.  Or in other words a slight tick under his career average. 
(To be fair to Randle, RJ Barrett dropped from 40.1 to 35.3, again back to career average)

And it isn't just three point shooting.  Let's look in the mid range:

Randle is hitting just 32 percent of his shots from the long midrange this season.
Meaning Randle ranks in the 46th percentile for his position - a steep drop from the 75th percentile he occupied last year.
51 players have taken at least 35 jumpers from between 16 and 24 feet this season. Randle ranks 49th in that group.

It's worse from 8 to 16 feet, where 16 players have attempted at least 100 shots, and Randle is dead last with a 34.3 percent rate of accuracy.

If you're going to attribute a large part of Randle (and other players) shooting success last year at the feet of the coach and toss him laurels you must attribute a large part of Randle (and other players) shooting failure this year at the feet of the coach and toss him hot coals to walk over.

I prefer to say its not Thibs doing either way.   His Coach of the Year award looks more like a "story of the year" award that he received because the knicks stopped looking putrid ( a low bar to clear if ever there was one).

Where I point at Thibs and call him out is that he neglected coaching this team and made a personnel decision after 20 games.  Not only did he not talk to Kemba after the benching (cringe) but he abdicated the responsibility of coaching this new starting lineup into cohesion.   During the early season Kemba and Julius took turns having good games and off nights.  The two of them haven't both played a good game together all season until the christmas game where Atlanta was wounded.  A good coach doesn't say "Hmmm... I have two offensive alpha dogs who can't co-exist let me just get rid of one of them and maybe the other will catch fire".  That's the kind of move a guy on a sports forum might cry out for sure, but you expect the head fucking coach to think things through a little more.  You can't say Alec Burks is the new full-time starting PG.   You can't get rid of Kemba for a non-PG.  That is just compounding the mistake of benching Kemba.   

Thibs - by any measure - is having one of his worst season's as a coach.   Coming off a feel-good year where he was gifted an award because he had a bunch of 40% 3pt shooters and they all out shot the team's expectations.  Big whoop.  Yes, the young players are developing but because of Thibs struggles I have to wonder if the youth development is really his doing, or more on the rest of the coaching staff and or the players themselves.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 27, 2021, 02:06:50 PM
So much of who shoots and when is dictated by the defense, Kam.

Thibs (and staff, I should say) does his offensive coaching in practice sessions and game-planning.  Mid game pretty much is designing plays out of timeouts, sub patterns, use of time outs and working officials.
Title: MAGISTER DIXIT
Post by: carlos123 on December 27, 2021, 02:27:05 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on December 27, 2021, 10:05:34 AM
Barrett must be traded while there is still a market

What a ridiculous notion!

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Title: Thibs
Post by: carlos123 on December 27, 2021, 02:32:08 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on December 27, 2021, 02:06:50 PM
So much of who shoots and when is dictated by the defense, Kam.

Thibs (and staff, I should say) does his offensive coaching in practice sessions and game-planning.  Mid game pretty much is designing plays out of timeouts, sub patterns, use of time outs and working officials.

Thibs design of plays out of timeouts is almost always a mix of horror show or comic relief, depending on how you look a it.

What the Kamster said! 👍
Title: Re: Thibs
Post by: elephant on December 27, 2021, 03:11:47 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 27, 2021, 01:34:25 PM

.....Thibs - by any measure - is having one of his worst season's as a coach.   Coming off a feel-good year where he was gifted an award because he had a bunch of 40% 3pt shooters and they all out shot the team's expectations.  Big whoop.  Yes, the young players are developing but because of Thibs struggles I have to wonder if the youth development is really his doing, or more on the rest of the coaching staff and or the players themselves.

Seems to me that all your observations have been on the mark this fall. But here you distort things. They won lots of their games on the defensive end, and the shift from the previous year was palpable. Can't just omit this achievement in the grand assessment.
Title: Re: Thibs
Post by: carlos123 on December 27, 2021, 03:25:14 PM
Quote from: elephant on December 27, 2021, 03:11:47 PM
Quote from: Kamster on December 27, 2021, 01:34:25 PM

.....Thibs - by any measure - is having one of his worst season's as a coach.   Coming off a feel-good year where he was gifted an award because he had a bunch of 40% 3pt shooters and they all out shot the team's expectations.  Big whoop.  Yes, the young players are developing but because of Thibs struggles I have to wonder if the youth development is really his doing, or more on the rest of the coaching staff and or the players themselves.

Seems to me that all your observations have been on the mark this fall. But here you distort things. They won lots of their games on the defensive end, and the shift from the previous year was palpable. Can't just omit this achievement in the grand assessment.

So... Thibs was a great defensive coach last season, but not this one.

Wake up Thibs, it's Miller time!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 27, 2021, 03:38:55 PM
Well, the year's not done. I can't explain why they're so much weaker on defense and am not ready to string up the coach.

But Thib's approach on offense with the starting unit has irritated me for two months. So little flow and so much confusion.
Title: Re: Thibs
Post by: elephant on December 27, 2021, 03:47:15 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 27, 2021, 03:25:14 PM

Wake up Thibs, it's Miller time!

Okay, um, you're not Mike Miller, are you?

Because this is one of the strangest fetishes I've ever witnessed.

I'm not sure that the skeletal remains of Simon Bolivar would be less likely or less desirable than the resurrection of Mike Miller.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 27, 2021, 03:50:24 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 27, 2021, 10:05:34 AM
Barrett must be traded while there is still a market

Probably a better idea than my move him to the second unit suggestion...
Title: Meanwhile...in the Valley of the Suns...
Post by: lesterluv on December 27, 2021, 03:56:20 PM
lol, lol, lol

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https://streamable.com/8easr5 (https://streamable.com/8easr5)

Title: Re: Thibs
Post by: carlos123 on December 27, 2021, 04:43:39 PM
Quote from: elephant on December 27, 2021, 03:47:15 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 27, 2021, 03:25:14 PM

Wake up Thibs, it's Miller time!

Okay, um, you're not Mike Miller, are you?

Because this is one of the strangest fetishes I've ever witnessed.

I'm not sure that the skeletal remains of Simon Bolivar would be less likely or less desirable than the resurrection of Mike Miller.

I'd be ok with Fac too, provided he has NO INPUT on trades or personnel decisions 😁

But Mike Miller was a very good coach for this team, and he proved it in the short time he was given an opportunity.
Title: Oh, Brother
Post by: chipstern on December 27, 2021, 05:31:24 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on December 27, 2021, 03:50:24 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 27, 2021, 10:05:34 AM
Barrett must be traded while there is still a market

Probably a better idea than my move him to the second unit suggestion...

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/14/a4/ab/14a4aba0f76ac91df10aaa445aaf6488.gif)

(https://www.ventriloquistcentral.com/ventriloquism-tribute/ventriloquist-edgar-bergen/schrum4.gif)
Title: Strumming On His Old Banjo
Post by: chipstern on December 27, 2021, 05:43:01 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 27, 2021, 04:43:39 PM
Quote from: elephant on December 27, 2021, 03:47:15 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 27, 2021, 03:25:14 PM

Wake up Thibs, it's Miller time!

Okay, um, you're not Mike Miller, are you?

Because this is one of the strangest fetishes I've ever witnessed.

I'm not sure that the skeletal remains of Simon Bolivar would be less likely or less desirable than the resurrection of Mike Miller.

I'd be ok with Fac too, provided he has NO INPUT on trades or personnel decisions 😁

But Mike Miller was a very good coach for this team, and he proved it in the short time he was given an opportunity.

(https://38.media.tumblr.com/c20c61411af5af0a2e13abf7cbdabba4/tumblr_n6bcc1Zm9X1td73xio1_400.gif)

2016-2017: Jeff Hornacek [31-51]
2017-2018: Jeff Hornacek [29-53]
2018-2019: David Fizdale [17-65]
2019-2020: David Fizdale [4-18]
2019-2020: Mike Miller [17-27]
2020-2021: Tom Thibodeau [41-31]
2021-2022: Tom Thibodeau [15-18...]

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/HandmadeAliveBlackandtancoonhound-size_restricted.gif)

Marc Berman with a High Five to Carlos from 2019. 

https://nypost.com/2019/12/16/the-mike-miller-trait-that-makes-him-right-guy-for-these-knicks/ (https://nypost.com/2019/12/16/the-mike-miller-trait-that-makes-him-right-guy-for-these-knicks/)

(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52f9c7fae4b0c9832bf23a80/1496515444832-6VE3VKDYIR58UKR1XPAB/5.gif)
Title: Point Of Order
Post by: chipstern on December 27, 2021, 05:46:20 PM
Quote from: elephant on December 27, 2021, 03:38:55 PM
Well, the year's not done. I can't explain why they're so much weaker on defense and am not ready to string up the coach.

But Thib's approach on offense with the starting unit has irritated me for two months. So little flow and so much confusion.

(https://images.ecency.com/p/2VZXybTSZJq1HdYsB7fJjuW6meDRuV7r8fXfxUUdcSB7CV3zRCwuUEWt2LennJzGifiRDNNi7p6Q2W4N5nSDzWCNBWHiaaQNWbgQCiHSrHbzg91PCoaaPWTNZEQ4mcfPA5uFeAPDoWeuJcWqbgYTsQLWSnR.png?format=match&mode=fit)
Title: Thibs & Fibs
Post by: chipstern on December 27, 2021, 05:53:26 PM
Just to be clear.

Thibs has plenty of issues, he may be called out on.  Kam made a good case on things which need to evolve offensively.  So did BoD, vis a vis lineup juggling to get more D around JR and Kemba. 

PLENTY

But blowing things up in midseason is just goofy. 

Who exactly are we going to attract as a coach, besides Saint Miller, if the mob can precipitate public floggings and Red Queen off with his head executions in mid-season.  Steve Kerr read his tea leaves and saw himself fired in under two years.  How many years has he been at GS now? 

Likewise, signing free agents and shitcanning them in under two months. 

And of course, that old standby, Kiid Endorsed, to set fire to our youth, and offload our puppies.  Funny, Kiid still beomans trading Jordan Hill after 24 games, but is ALL IN for dumping RJ on only the third year of his learning curve.   Me, I still regret dumping Trevor Ariza, speaking of 3&Ds. 

(https://i.giphy.com/media/3o7TKQt6ljlGFQbvIk/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Point Of Order
Post by: carlos123 on December 27, 2021, 07:06:01 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 27, 2021, 05:46:20 PM
Quote from: elephant on December 27, 2021, 03:38:55 PM
Well, the year's not done. I can't explain why they're so much weaker on defense and am not ready to string up the coach.

But Thib's approach on offense with the starting unit has irritated me for two months. So little flow and so much confusion.

(https://images.ecency.com/p/2VZXybTSZJq1HdYsB7fJjuW6meDRuV7r8fXfxUUdcSB7CV3zRCwuUEWt2LennJzGifiRDNNi7p6Q2W4N5nSDzWCNBWHiaaQNWbgQCiHSrHbzg91PCoaaPWTNZEQ4mcfPA5uFeAPDoWeuJcWqbgYTsQLWSnR.png?format=match&mode=fit)

So, dear Chisptern, you accept that Thibs offense is bad, and his defense is bad too.

But you wanna keep him, no matter what?

I already said that his replacement can wait until next season. Thibs usually starts well, and then things go downhill from there. It just seems the downhill trend is accelerating.

And I proposed two candidates to replace him: Miller and Fac.

Quote from: chipstern on December 27, 2021, 05:43:01 PM
How to IMPROVE in the middle of a season
2019-2020: David Fizdale [4-18]
2019-2020: Mike Miller [17-27]

Again, provided that Fac has no input on trades or personnel decisions.

Who do you propose, this clown?
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLXjJB4uTHUDxCiQvgTkCUBgRdd6SlGkLPLEY_GMysB77Fah0vlsdgEknmnMotuS30AAbhLTGNoBGmsK9tEbfM6kCyG6a6o73O3EObJ7IG49KIWNbxMvTD73eKuya-MtKLtD88GEbFa9vWXiLxwVloBs=w683-h445-no?authuser=0)
MILLER TIME BABY! 😊
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 27, 2021, 07:50:05 PM
Good one tonight - Clippers-Nets
Title: PuhLeese
Post by: chipstern on December 27, 2021, 10:50:53 PM
So, dear Chisptern, you accept that Thibs offense is bad, and his defense is bad too. But you wanna keep him, no matter what?

DUH.  You a friend, so I am happy for you to revel in absurdist hallucinations mingled from time to time with trenchant almost analysis. 

HOWFUCKINGEVER, That IS NOT WHAT I SAID.

Numb Nutz

How about...

EVERYONE IS TRYING TO ADJUST, TO THIBS, EACH OTHER, COVID, INJURIES, PERSONNEL. 

They are auditioning for Thibs. 

And Thibs is auditioning for them [AND Carlos and Dawg and Kiid and Miras]. 

The advantage Thibs has over you, is seeing everyone every day in practice. 

Than we ALL see it on the floor. 

And a lot of it ain't pretty.

So motherfucker, I don't hold to a death penalty. 

Thibs is methodical.  Thibs is stubborn.  He is trying to make things work, but Randle and RJ are human, and they are not playing with Bullock & Payton.  And they have been tasked with making it all cohere with Fournier & Walker.  The players AIN'T ROBOTS.  A lot of confusion, cats don't know whether to shit or go blind. 

AND WE HAVEN'T Sucked For 48 A Night. 

It's an adjustment, and they've been up and down. 

THIBS TOO. 

You think Thibs deserves the death penalty because he's 15-18. 

Nate McMillian is 15-18.  Wanna fire him too, Trader Vic? 

MY BIGGEST ISSUES are ones we share....motion and ball movement, defense.  Did you watch GS + Phoenix.  They were both breathtaking on both sides of the ball.  GS deployment of cutters, shouldn't just be sent to Thibs, but to everyone.   

You are going to see some changes in the first and second unit.  Thibs has already signalled for Burks back to the bench.  Score one for the Garden Chanting KemBaWalKer, clapclapclap. 

I DID NOT LIKE HOW THIBS TREATED KEMBA, and I thought Burks as a PG was absurd. 

But Kemba responded like a man and a professional, then fate intervened, COVID-Rose = unlikely happenstance of KEMBA.  His triple double at the Garden sealed the deal.  And he may just have figured out how to click with Julius and vicea versa. 

Robinson-Randle-RJ-Grimes-Walker

Three defenders to protect two scorer facilitators. Three youngsters whose game is based on movement.  Kemba looks to be figuring out Julius.  RJ is next. 

Me and you would probably prefer Grimes in that first unit instead of Burks of Fournier. 

Noel/Sims-Toppin/Gibson-Burks/Fournier/Deuce-IQ

Pick AND Choose.  Lot of pieces to juggle.  Burks and Fournier are willing passers who like to go to the hoop, be a nice  match with Obi back cuts. 

Rose going out, vis a vis chemistry & Kemba, might be as significant, ironically, as Rose coming in last season.  

Opens up 25 minutes to divvy up between Walker-IQ-McBride. 

I think Thibs is impressed enough with Grimes to annoint him to shadow Kemba as his bodyguard.  Quentin is a better defender than Evan, and they are pretty close in shooting; Fournier from afar and on the bounce; Grimes from afar on the catch and shoot, more like Bullock than Fournier.  Grimes more...bounce, more of an attack mode than Evan. 

Feel free to keep clowning me and Thibs.  We need it. 

We're 33 games in. Chapter ONE.

Chapter TWO.

Let's see what the next 22-33 look like until Rose gets back. Now that Thibs is getting a drip of players back from PROTOCOLS.  DUH. 

(https://333sound.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Sam-Cooke.2-e1388814094501.jpg)

Like Sam Cooke sang, CHANGE IS GOING TO COME. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 28, 2021, 06:02:42 AM
As opposed to getting comfortable on the court, Kemba got pulled, got comfortable, and then got back on the court. His knees got some downtime after camp and the start of season. I have fewer problems with the way he is playing now than I do with how he was playing then. I am not sure what or how big his role ultimately should be on this team, should we ever be all healthy and complete again. He has adjusted and now proven he can help the team. He may need another monthish layoff due to the combination of degeneration and big minutes, say in March or April, or in Late February if Thibs gets ahead of it.

McBride still might log more minutes than Kemba going forward.

Fournier and RJ subbed by Burks and Grimes or Grimes and RJ subbed by Burks and Fournier? Or a different set of pairings among them?

If Kemba is starting I am for putting the talented athletic kids between him and Julius in our starting lineup. That is Mitch, RJ, and Grimes. Evan and Alec make sense as secondary ball handlers with experience who theoretically can shoot it partnered with IQ or Deuce at point.

Obi then Sims and Taj as reserve bigs. Of IQ and McBride, whichever locks down the backup PG role the other should be third SG and PG and still see time. Knox is the break glass SF.

I have no minutes for Noel and Seldon unless we are very shorthanded. Would like more Dot and some Long Luca before all is said and done.

Not sure I need Moony or Hall at all. Practice bodies are a good thing I guess.

Fun road trip coming up starting with a back-to-back Minny Detroit to end the calander year.

I love me some Thibs and loved me some Mike Miller. I hope he somehow makes it back on the staff. I think Thibs would enjoy him. I miss Woody. I hope he surpasses Bobby Knight in every measurable way at IU.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 28, 2021, 09:52:48 AM
He will need to coach there til he is 95
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 28, 2021, 10:19:30 AM
Beware of taxi drivers promising change is gonna come ...

I read somewhere that Sam Cooke wrote that song in response to Bob Dylan.  Someone told Cooke that a skinny white boy was capturing the national mood, and black folks needed an anthem to rally behind.  So Cooke wrote A Change is Gonna Come.  Not certain that's an authentic account, but makes for a good story ...
Title: Double The Meter
Post by: chipstern on December 28, 2021, 01:48:54 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 28, 2021, 10:19:30 AM
Beware of taxi drivers promising change is gonna come ...

I read somewhere that Sam Cooke wrote that song in response to Bob Dylan.  Someone told Cooke that a skinny white boy was capturing the national mood, and black folks needed an anthem to rally behind.  So Cooke wrote A Change is Gonna Come.  Not certain that's an authentic account, but makes for a good story ...

The actual turn of events went something like this...

Sam Cooke adored "Blowin' In The Wind," and soon after hearing it, added it to his performance repertoire and subsequently recorded it. 

But he was taken aback, literally embarassed that it had been written by a white boy, and not a person of color.  Sam felt he had been derelict in his spiritual, social and creative duty

Later in 1963, Cooke was turned away from a hotel in Shreveport, Louisiana, and took a rap for disturbing the peace...this was still the era of legal apartheid in this country [sorry if this makes the Uncritical Erase Weary crowd uncomfortable, but Jim Crow was the Law of the Land from the end of Reconstruction 1876 and Plessy V. Ferguson [separate but equal declared the law of the land] in 1896, all the way through 1964-1965, so GO FUCK YOURSELVES, nosebleeds].

So inspired, Sam wrote "Change Is Gonna Come" which became the centerpiece of his final studio album, AIN'T THAT GOOD NEWS. 

"How many games will it take for Coach Thibs to accept The Cold Truth
 That Quentin Grimes might just be his main man
 The answer my friends
 Is hovering in analytics
 The answer is blowing proximate to Carlos' puffy ass." 
Title: Beware of taxi drivers promising change is gonna come...
Post by: chipstern on December 28, 2021, 02:57:08 PM
Last shift I drove was on February 29, 2020. 

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B60XZEvCQAEOgW3.jpg)

Finally sensed that customers had enough of Uber and were coming back to yellows.  Made money commensurate with a Friday-Saturday night, and had enjoyable interactions with many lovely people. 

Between driving to and from Queens, shape up, and working the full shift from end to end, a 19 hour day.  Got ill off of it, and couldn't shake it.  Not COVID, least ways, don't think it was, diagnosed as an upper respiratory infection. 

When 7-10 days later I still couldn't shake it, and I mentioned in passing to my daughter how when I felt better I would pull some shifts, she got very angry with me: "Daddy, I don't want you in that fucking cab," and dispatched my son in law from North Carolina to come pick me up and shelter with them and my granddaughter for three months.

When I last drove, yellow cabs were picking up on the order of 220,000 fares a day, down signifcantly from on the order of 600,000 or therearbouts ten years before. 

By the time James pulled up at my door on March 17 in his car, to complete a 19 hour round trip back to Mint Hill outside of Charlotte, fares had plummetted from like 220,000 a day to under 20,000 a week.

In May, my fleet put its medallions on ice, and shuttered its doors.

Today, out of 13,587 licensed medallions, maybe 3500-4000 or so are actually out on the streets. 

Between the motherfuckers in the Taxi & Limousine Commission, speed traps and red light cameras, traffic and gas prices, 2.50 + .80 + .50 State/MTA/TLC fees on top of the first drop of just for a passenger to sit down, cops handing out gotcha tickets like the Knicks giving up open threes, the coming of congestion pricing, the absence of a night life, and the likelihood of getting infected with COVID, not really a tenable option for an elderly fellow such as myself. 

I truly miss the people.  It was an honor and a privilege to interact with them, New Yorkers and tourists alike. 

But the dues for driving went from daunting to ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR FUCKING MIND?  From mere peon to being peed on. 

Oh well.  Another aspect of NYC life bites the dust. 

(https://positive-feedback.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/Chip_Stern_cabbie.jpg)

Still have hoops.  Although if Taxi & Limousine Commissioner Carlos Cast-a-NAY-Y'all had his way, driver Tom Thibodeau would be heavily fined and have his license to cruise the streets suspended. 

(https://scottkfish.files.wordpress.com/2020/01/stern_ginger_baker_photo_009.jpeg)

Title: Miller Time Never More
Post by: chipstern on December 28, 2021, 03:33:22 PM
COACH Mark Daigneault has entered health and safety protocols, per the Thunder.

Mike Wilks will serve as the acting head coach tonight in Sacramento.

OH MY GOD.  They passed over Mike Miller. 

Alert the media. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 28, 2021, 05:20:03 PM
So Dev Book is the new Kobe; Spider Mitchell the new Wade and Ja Morant the new Derrick Rose.  Trae the new Scurry.  Giannis the new LeBJ.  Tatum the new Paul George. FVV the new Lowry.  Brogdan the new Andre Miller.  KZ the new KZ.  Julius Randle the old Julius Randle.

I need comparisons for Tyler Herro, John Collins, LaMelo, and Des Bane.  Ayton.  Bridges.
Title: The Last Euro-vacation ...
Post by: bodiddley on December 28, 2021, 05:44:10 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 28, 2021, 02:57:08 PM
Last shift I drove was on February 29, 2020. 
I probably mentioned it before, but somehow I slipped in a Euro-vacation from Feb 20 - March 3 2020.  Ducked out of China while the Wuhan explosion was in progress.  Hit Athens for a day and then was in Malta when the No. Italy (and Iran) outbreaks took hold.  By the time we were leaving Cyprus things were getting a bit serious, as it was clear humans were excellent disease vectors.  The Cypriots were a bit nervous about my China residence, but quickly decided the best thing was to let me leave.  China at that time was bemoaning travel bans imposed by other countries, so returning to the PRC wasn't a problem.

China did essentially a 2 month lockdown from Jan 20-March 20, with a gradual reopening over the next 3 months.  I've been playing basketball indoors since March 22 2020.  I haven't been vaccinated as I'm holding out for a chance at an mRNA vaccine.  I don't wear a mask except when required -- gov't buildings, subway, bank, random shops.  Since July 1 2020, it's been very normal here, with the virus not spreading, people not getting infected or sick from CV, no one dying of CV. 

A strict 2 month lockdown and the virus had no where to go and petered out.  Life normal for the past year and a half.  Imagine that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 28, 2021, 06:09:16 PM
well...that really depends on one's definition of normal!
Title: Re: PuhLeese and more PUHLEESE
Post by: carlos123 on December 28, 2021, 08:03:11 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 27, 2021, 10:50:53 PM
So, dear Chisptern, you accept that Thibs offense is bad, and his defense is bad too. But you wanna keep him, no matter what?

DUH.  You a friend, so I am happy for you to revel in absurdist hallucinations mingled from time to time with trenchant almost analysis. 

HOWFUCKINGEVER, That IS NOT WHAT I SAID.

Numb Nutz

How about...

EVERYONE IS TRYING TO ADJUST, TO THIBS, EACH OTHER, COVID, INJURIES, PERSONNEL. 

They are auditioning for Thibs. 

And Thibs is auditioning for them [AND Carlos and Dawg and Kiid and Miras]. 

The advantage Thibs has over you, is seeing everyone every day in practice. 

Than we ALL see it on the floor. 

And a lot of it ain't pretty.

So motherfucker, I don't hold to a death penalty. 

Thibs is methodical.  Thibs is stubborn.  He is trying to make things work, but Randle and RJ are human, and they are not playing with Bullock & Payton.  And they have been tasked with making it all cohere with Fournier & Walker.  The players AIN'T ROBOTS.  A lot of confusion, cats don't know whether to shit or go blind. 

AND WE HAVEN'T Sucked For 48 A Night. 

It's an adjustment, and they've been up and down. 

THIBS TOO. 

You think Thibs deserves the death penalty because he's 15-18. 

Nate McMillian is 15-18.  Wanna fire him too, Trader Vic? 

MY BIGGEST ISSUES are ones we share....motion and ball movement, defense.  Did you watch GS + Phoenix.  They were both breathtaking on both sides of the ball.  GS deployment of cutters, shouldn't just be sent to Thibs, but to everyone.   

You are going to see some changes in the first and second unit.  Thibs has already signalled for Burks back to the bench.  Score one for the Garden Chanting KemBaWalKer, clapclapclap. 

I DID NOT LIKE HOW THIBS TREATED KEMBA, and I thought Burks as a PG was absurd. 

But Kemba responded like a man and a professional, then fate intervened, COVID-Rose = unlikely happenstance of KEMBA.  His triple double at the Garden sealed the deal.  And he may just have figured out how to click with Julius and vicea versa. 

Robinson-Randle-RJ-Grimes-Walker

Three defenders to protect two scorer facilitators. Three youngsters whose game is based on movement.  Kemba looks to be figuring out Julius.  RJ is next. 

Me and you would probably prefer Grimes in that first unit instead of Burks of Fournier. 

Noel/Sims-Toppin/Gibson-Burks/Fournier/Deuce-IQ

Pick AND Choose.  Lot of pieces to juggle.  Burks and Fournier are willing passers who like to go to the hoop, be a nice  match with Obi back cuts. 

Rose going out, vis a vis chemistry & Kemba, might be as significant, ironically, as Rose coming in last season.  

Opens up 25 minutes to divvy up between Walker-IQ-McBride. 

I think Thibs is impressed enough with Grimes to annoint him to shadow Kemba as his bodyguard.  Quentin is a better defender than Evan, and they are pretty close in shooting; Fournier from afar and on the bounce; Grimes from afar on the catch and shoot, more like Bullock than Fournier.  Grimes more...bounce, more of an attack mode than Evan. 

Feel free to keep clowning me and Thibs.  We need it. 

We're 33 games in. Chapter ONE.

Chapter TWO.

Let's see what the next 22-33 look like until Rose gets back. Now that Thibs is getting a drip of players back from PROTOCOLS.  DUH. 

(https://333sound.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Sam-Cooke.2-e1388814094501.jpg)

Like Sam Cooke sang, CHANGE IS GOING TO COME.

HOWFUCKINGEVER, That IS NOT WHAT I SAID. REALLY? HOW REFRESHING!

EVERYONE IS TRYING TO ADJUST, TO THIBS, EACH OTHER, COVID, INJURIES, PERSONNEL. 

They are auditioning for Thibs. 

And Thibs is auditioning for them

EXCUSES, EXCUSES, EXCUSES? ...

[AND Carlos and Dawg and Kiid and Miras]. Les and Miras are good company, but PuhLeese and more PUHLEESE, DO NOT PLACE ME IN THE COMPANY OF CHAMACO OR CHAMAACO

Nate McMillian is 15-18.  Wanna fire him too, Trader Vic? NATE HAS A REAL EXCUSE, HIS BEST PLAYERS ARE OUT, AND I AINT NO TRADER VIC.

MY BIGGEST ISSUES are ones we share....motion and ball movement, defense. AGREE, SEE? EASY.

I DID NOT LIKE HOW THIBS TREATED KEMBA,. I do not like how he is treating him now, 40 minutes a night is gonna cripple him fast!

OTHER THAN THIBS, WE AGREE ON MOSTLY EVERYTHING. PEACE, CHIP.

Quote from: chipstern on December 28, 2021, 03:33:22 PM
COACH Mark Daigneault has entered health and safety protocols, per the Thunder.

Mike Wilks will serve as the acting head coach tonight in Sacramento.

OH MY GOD.  They passed over Mike Miller. 

Alert the media.

Well, they visit this forum from time to time. So they know Miller is on his way to NY, not because of my endorsement, but because Chamaco pontificated that "Mike Fin Miller is not coming to the Knicks" 🤪

MILLER TIME BABY! (next season) 😁
Title: normal?
Post by: carlos123 on December 28, 2021, 08:12:41 PM
Quote from: Les on December 28, 2021, 06:09:16 PM
well...that really depends on one's definition of normal!

For BoZ, probably a re-education camp in Xinjiang.

(https://www.hrw.org/sites/default/files/media_2021/10/202110china_xinjiang_muslims_UN.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 28, 2021, 08:40:34 PM
How many games will it take for Coach Thibs to accept The Cold Truth
 That Quentin Grimes might just be his main man

Have to see Quentin make some 2 pointers
Title: Re: Double The Meter
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 28, 2021, 09:04:23 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 28, 2021, 01:48:54 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 28, 2021, 10:19:30 AM
Beware of taxi drivers promising change is gonna come ...

I read somewhere that Sam Cooke wrote that song in response to Bob Dylan.  Someone told Cooke that a skinny white boy was capturing the national mood, and black folks needed an anthem to rally behind.  So Cooke wrote A Change is Gonna Come.  Not certain that's an authentic account, but makes for a good story ...

The actual turn of events went something like this...

Sam Cooke adored "Blowin' In The Wind," and soon after hearing it, added it to his performance repertoire and subsequently recorded it. 

But he was taken aback, literally embarassed that it had been written by a white boy, and not a person of color.  Sam felt he had been derelict in his spiritual, social and creative duty

Later in 1963, Cooke was turned away from a hotel in Shreveport, Louisiana, and took a rap for disturbing the peace...this was still the era of legal apartheid in this country [sorry if this makes the Uncritical Erase Weary crowd uncomfortable, but Jim Crow was the Law of the Land from the end of Reconstruction 1876 and Plessy V. Ferguson [separate but equal declared the law of the land] in 1896, all the way through 1964-1965, so GO FUCK YOURSELVES, nosebleeds].

So inspired, Sam wrote "Change Is Gonna Come" which became the centerpiece of his final studio album, AIN'T THAT GOOD NEWS. 

"How many games will it take for Coach Thibs to accept The Cold Truth
 That Quentin Grimes might just be his main man
 The answer my friends
 Is hovering in analytics
 The answer is blowing proximate to Carlos' puffy ass."

White boys sing it good

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBJXPAqGlGk
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 28, 2021, 09:27:51 PM
A strict 2 month lockdown and the virus had no where to go and petered out.  Life normal for the past year and a half.  Imagine that.


Good luck

https://www.france24.com/en/asia-pacific/20211223-china-locks-down-entire-city-as-covid-19-cases-rise-ahead-of-olympics


Hoping they do not cancel the 2022 Asia Games, already postponed by COVID (imagine that) from '21.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 28, 2021, 10:30:56 PM
Good win. I saw a lot I liked. I also saw a lot to work on.

Detroit next. Hope we keep it up and improve on it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 28, 2021, 10:42:06 PM
Maybe I'm just in a bad mood. But they barely held up against a second-string squad.

Not a good look.

And our "star" can't seem to play two good quarters in a row.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 28, 2021, 10:50:53 PM
And we still have the issue of our "2nd team" playing better than the first.
Title: Guess What?
Post by: chipstern on December 28, 2021, 10:57:29 PM
Quote from: elephant on December 28, 2021, 10:50:53 PM
And we still have the issue of our "2nd team" playing better than the first.

Grimes got 31 minutes....hinthinthint...changing of the guard so to speak. 

Mitchell played great.  14 [6-7] 18 boards, two steals.  If he remains healthy and keeps upping his stamina, speed and hops, a very good sign. 

Kemba played 33, IQ 15.  I would expect IQ and McBride to get another eight or so of Kemba's minutes. 

Wasn't pretty, but a win. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 28, 2021, 11:44:56 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 28, 2021, 09:27:51 PM
Good luck

https://www.france24.com/en/asia-pacific/20211223-china-locks-down-entire-city-as-covid-19-cases-rise-ahead-of-olympics

Xian and suburbs locked down due to 146 CV cases, which has since expanded to 198.
It's not easy maintaining zero cases while the borders are open.
Putting resources into testing and quarantining instead of post-infection treatment.

Bars, restaurants, shops have been filled since June 2020.  I would forget that there's a global pandemic except that roughly 30-40% wear masks (and I keep a mask handy in case I need to use it).  There's so little risk/threat of CV infection here that I haven't bothered to get vaccinated.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 29, 2021, 12:03:11 AM
lmao ...

Not easy to forget there's a pandemic if you've spent six-seven-eight full months in complete lockdown like many Chinese cities, but totally normal

If you haven't seen your family in two years like millions of Chinese, totally normal

If you are already used to living in a completely authoritarian state, totally normal

If you like your borders basically closed forever, totally normal, lol..OK!

like I say, it's all how you define normal )


*** plus, with a crap vaccine and a population which has not built up immunities, their end game is a big, big problem unless they get a really, really lucky break w/continued virus mutation
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 29, 2021, 12:04:30 AM
Randall, on the floor, but not participating whatsoever for minutes at a time becoming "totally normal" which despite tonight's win, I find "totally distressing"


*** particularly when it's the middle of the fourth
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 29, 2021, 12:06:09 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on December 29, 2021, 12:03:11 AM
Not easy to forget there's a pandemic if you've spent six-seven-eight full months in complete lockdown like many Chinese cities, but totally normal

You have no clue what you are talking about.
Nothing like that has occurred.
Enjoy your ignorance.
Title: Bo Needs a New VPN...bad
Post by: lesterluv on December 29, 2021, 12:08:09 AM
lmao...you don't know about it? Lol, lol, actually i'm not surprised cause you can't get any news over there..rofl, you just made my night!



*** But the fallout of the zero-tolerance approach is hard to ignore. Ruili, a city bordering Myanmar, has seen sporadic COVID-19 infections. Officials seal off the city each time, with the total duration of lockdowns reached roughly seven months since September 2020.

That's just one, idjit boy, takes like 3 seconds to find each if your network isn't moderated by Xi Jinping
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 29, 2021, 12:14:21 AM
Next your gonna tell me I made up that %$# about Peng Shuai!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 29, 2021, 12:27:22 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 28, 2021, 11:44:56 PM
It's not easy maintaining zero cases while the borders are open.
Putting resources into testing and quarantining instead of post-infection treatment.

This just shows how totally wacked his filtered mind state is.
China's borders were largely closed for 19 months.
Yes it had been possible for a very selective few to travel there.
Most facing very extended quarantine on arrival.
Boy gonna need some extensive reeducation if he every emerges from lala land.
Title: Re: BoZ Needs a New VPN...bad
Post by: carlos123 on December 29, 2021, 12:29:25 AM
Quote from: Les on December 29, 2021, 12:08:09 AM
lmao...you don't know about it? Lol, lol, actually i'm not surprised cause you can't get any news over there..rofl, you just made my night!



*** But the fallout of the zero-tolerance approach is hard to ignore. Ruili, a city bordering Myanmar, has seen sporadic COVID-19 infections. Officials seal off the city each time, with the total duration of lockdowns reached roughly seven months since September 2020.

That's just one, idjit boy, takes like 3 seconds to find each if your network isn't moderated by Xi Jinping

Forget it, Les.

BoZ has been thoroughly re-educated.

ChamACo-ChamAAco needs a move to Shanghai.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 29, 2021, 12:31:24 AM
You right, you right...will focus on the deepening mystery of Randle's mind rather than the meaningless muddle of Bo Zo Peep's.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 29, 2021, 12:57:39 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on December 29, 2021, 12:04:30 AM
Randall, on the floor, but not participating whatsoever for minutes at a time becoming "totally normal" which despite tonight's win, I find "totally distressing"


*** particularly when it's the middle of the fourth

He did get up twenty shots and manage 2 assists and 4 turnovers. I would call that generally involved. He was a combo of gassed and hurt it seemed, or he was saving something for tomorrow night. I thought it showed more on D than on O.

After tonight I would rather us be paying Greg Monroe than Noel to be on the Knicks.

RJ and Grimes can cover for Kemba well enough to give us overall decent team D. Fournier and Burks do not quite cut it
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 29, 2021, 01:01:56 AM
"many Chinese cities"
Now you're talking a smallish border town.
The borders, some of them barely marked, have been difficult to maintain zero CV due to other countries outbreaks. 

Otherwise 1.3B Chinese have been CV free and able to go about their normal routine for the past 1.5 years.  Here and there, a few Chinese cities, such as Xian now, have enforced a 2nd lockdown.  Overall, China's zero CV policy has been wildly successful, especially given the large Wuhan/Hubei outbreak they were initially confronted with.  Unclear how long zero CV can be sustained. 
Title: the bibble, the babble, move to Xian and take up scrabble
Post by: lesterluv on December 29, 2021, 01:18:06 AM
Bo, that was a three second search (two more than you are worth!) but there are plenty more if your signal's unfettered....I've moved on. Feel free to tell the others about those open borders. In your typical let ten thousand meaningless words bloom style.


*** You were right to take a pass on that Chinese jab, tho....


*****Oh, wait, you can't move there....the city of 13 million people is currently...COMPLETELY SHUT DOWN
Title: if you do manage to cross those "open borders" lol...and enter China
Post by: lesterluv on December 29, 2021, 01:32:01 AM
you don't get to quarantine at your buddy's house...and don't even think about stepping out into the "courtyard" for a smoke or a try at better wifi!

(https://img.i-scmp.com/cdn-cgi/image/fit=contain,width=1098,format=auto/sites/default/files/styles/1200x800/public/d8/images/methode/2021/10/01/3a6eb90e-21df-11ec-83d0-b8338c7f9150_image_hires_111623.jpg?itok=wK5s9qo_&v=1633058194)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 29, 2021, 03:04:12 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 29, 2021, 12:57:39 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on December 29, 2021, 12:04:30 AM
Randall, on the floor, but not participating whatsoever for minutes at a time becoming "totally normal" which despite tonight's win, I find "totally distressing"


*** particularly when it's the middle of the fourth

He did get up twenty shots and manage 2 assists and 4 turnovers. I would call that generally involved. He was a combo of gassed and hurt it seemed, or he was saving something for tomorrow night. I thought it showed more on D than on O.


Jesus, I keep fucking losing messages because of using an em-dash or some other sin.

Anyhow, gassed or something. I don't know. But he's often the reason we can't hold a decent lead. Even when he's instrumental in getting us that lead, he gives it all back in mental errors on both sides of the court. A question of concentration? Don't know. Julius is fierce and talented, but his inconsistency is getting crazy.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 29, 2021, 09:10:30 AM
Randle started the game low on energy.
1Q: Got beat to a rebound that hit the floor.
Stripped on the perimeter.  Taking tough shots, missing his first 3.

Minny announcers were informative and well-prepared.
One of them talked to the Wolves coach about Randle.  Finch along with one of the Knick assistants (Erdman?) were on the New Orleans staff when Randle toiled there.  They shared a laugh about how Randle was only interested in offense and getting paid back then.  Bad habits tend to last. 

They talked about Grimes having a half-brother who plays in the NHL.
And were good on various Monroe info.
Hell, they even reminisced about Kemba beating the Wolves with a game winner in his 3rd NBA game for the then-Bobcats back in 2012.  Lamenting a season of promise ruined by rookie Rubio tearing his ACL and Kevin Love breaking his hand doing knuckle pushups.

Worst announcers I've run across: Lakers (boring, bland), and Celtics (excessive homerism in the Heinsohn mold).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 29, 2021, 02:17:12 PM
Rough game for Randle.
McDaniels outplayed him.

Minny will have an interesting bench once KAT, Edwards and the other starters return.
As Nowell, Knight and Monroe have all showed well in their absence.

Knix somewhat struggled to beat the Wolves 2nd and 3rd stringers.
Who hurt themselves with some seriously cold shooting.

Mitch was everywhere.
Taj was solid.
Grimes had a strong 1st half, but missed shots and made a couple wrong defensive reads 4Q.
Maybe a bit worn out. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 29, 2021, 02:37:33 PM
Let's go, Mitch

Training paying off as season progresses.

6 straight games 20+ minutes

10.5  pts
10  reb
2 blk
1 st

per game over the 6.

And FOUR wins

Giving him 15 mil per?  Not sure.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 29, 2021, 02:48:47 PM
Grimes made a 2-pointer

Sweet
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 29, 2021, 03:46:10 PM
Grimes is doing what we asked Reggie Bullock to do last year.  He is a nice rotation piece to plug in. I am liking how many shooters we have on the team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 29, 2021, 03:57:18 PM
Yeah, but we saw in the Hawk's game that he also has the skills and instinct to aggressively drive into the paint.

So he'll soon be offering more than Bullock, no?

Title: Observations
Post by: chipstern on December 29, 2021, 05:00:55 PM
* To paraphrase what Wally said regarding Julius. 

More than two dribbles and he gets in trouble. 

CURIOUS, that both Julius and Kemba were mot sharp offensively. 

Perhaps manage their minutes more aggressively. 

Be that as it may, and as Randle's most passioinate positive pussy, he was clumsy and overthinking, a number of TOs quite cringeworthy.  PS: I can get the inconsistency on the treys, but those back-in, dribble, midrange turnarounds, in the paint or on the baseline, were money last season.  Curious.   

* An RJ/Grimes platoon seems to be emerging.  I liked it when they were both on the court together. BOTH inheriting Bullock's roles in the offense, though both can get to the glass off of the dribble. 

* Second unit simply pistol whipped the Wolves, were running hot, than Thibs reflexively put the starters back in, and the Wolves went on a big run. 

* We've gone from managing Kemba's minutes to UConn minutes.  Time to get IQ and [AND] Deuce in there, separately or together. 

* Obi with a trey and an aggressive up and under layup, asserting his hops, power and finesse. Really sweet.  Like Wally said, he would not have had the confidence to do that last season. 

* MITCHELL.  Playing with pace and hops and JOY.  A moratorium on lame trade rumors, please. 

* Fournier.  There seems to be a pattern of him starting really hot, both off the catch and the bounce.  Then, after he sits, and comes back in, out of rhythm.  Curious. 

* Taj-Obi-Burks-Grimes-IQ played well together. 

* Knox buried, once again.  SIGH. 

* When everyone is back, is there a chance we keep Dotson in lieu of Selden? 

* In terms of team spirit and cohesion, we may be seeing the invisible hand of Theo Pinson and what he did for this team in Thibs' COTY season. 

Detroit is DECIMATED to night.  OUT On Protocols, Cade Cunningham Isaiah Stewart Josh Jackson Killian Hayes Saben Lee Trey Lyles Rodney McGruder Cory Joseph
Title: THIS Just In
Post by: chipstern on December 29, 2021, 06:20:32 PM
* Diminutive PG Isiah Thomas signs with the Mavs

* Ricky Rubio out for the season with a torn ACL...DAMN SHAME.  He was making a great contribution to the Cavs success. 
Title: A Wally Pipp Moment?
Post by: chipstern on December 29, 2021, 07:15:39 PM
Evan out. 

GRIMES gets the start. 

Fuck me. 

Robinson-Randle-RJ-Grimes-Kemba

Just what the docotor ordered. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 29, 2021, 07:22:31 PM
Thanks for the league updates.  Here is another funny one -

Miami has SEVEN players.  The league has made them pick up three guys - and they have to be from the Austin Spurs since it is such short notice (MIA in San Antonio)

Virus working for Isaiah, Greg Monroe and some others.  Could a Jimmer sighting be far away?
Title: Re: Observations
Post by: Kam on December 29, 2021, 08:33:27 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 29, 2021, 05:00:55 PM
* To paraphrase what Wally said regarding Julius. 

More than two dribbles and he gets in trouble. 


Smart man.   Wally reads the forum ; )
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 29, 2021, 08:37:11 PM
20-4 Pistons run.  Wow.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 29, 2021, 08:39:37 PM
Switching to LA game.  Horrible basketball.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 29, 2021, 08:55:45 PM
Our best 5 team brings it all the way back to a tie.

(IQ, McBride, Burk, Taj, Obi)

Energy.
Title: My God
Post by: chipstern on December 29, 2021, 08:55:56 PM
If Thibs takes the second unit out and puts back Randle and the starters, he shouldn't be fired. 

He should be EXECUTED. 

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/MajorLoathsomeGrison-max-1mb.gif)

The level of energy and Randle's sheer fuck uppery is mind numbing. 

PS: Kemba looks burned out. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 29, 2021, 08:56:33 PM
Quote from: elephant on December 29, 2021, 08:55:45 PM
Our best 5 team brings it all the way back to a tie.

(IQ, McBride, Burk, Taj, Obi)

Energy.

Yup
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 29, 2021, 08:56:42 PM
Miami has SEVEN players.  The league has made them pick up three guys and they have to be from the Austin Spurs since it is such short notice (MIA in San Antonio)


Updating - league did postpone this game
Title: It's [Alec] Burks' Law
Post by: chipstern on December 29, 2021, 09:20:02 PM
HEROIC
Title: Deuce McBride
Post by: chipstern on December 29, 2021, 09:27:17 PM
Offensively he is 0-4

But 4 boards, 3 assists, 2 steals and a team leading +39, tied with Obi, also a +39. 

Burks?

Zowie

12-17
4 boards
2 assists
3 steals

Second unit turned up the jets defensively.  ENERGY. 

Taj-Obi-Burks-IQ-Deuce

Thanks, Thibs, for not pulling a winning combo.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 29, 2021, 09:47:34 PM
We won?

Very nice.

Tatum-less Celts fall to 16-19
Title: Re: A Wally Pipp Moment?
Post by: lesterluv on December 29, 2021, 11:14:04 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 29, 2021, 07:15:39 PM

Robinson-Randle-RJ-Grimes-Kemba

Just what the docotor ordered.

Wasn't that somebody's dream line-up?

Worst basketball I have ever seen.

Have I mentioned that I'm officially done with Julius Randle.

Picks + expirings, whatever, I'm good.


** and if it turns out that he is hurt or overworked or who knows the F what, then it's Thibs fault for playing him, but since Thibs is the coach I still need him gone cause I don't want to see this %ish anymore

** and if it turns out that there is some crazy offcourt %$%$ish he is dealing with, then let him go deal with it cause I don't want to see this %ish anymore
Title: King Julius
Post by: carlos123 on December 29, 2021, 11:41:02 PM
Quote from: Les on December 29, 2021, 11:14:04 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 29, 2021, 07:15:39 PM

Robinson-Randle-RJ-Grimes-Kemba

Just what the docotor ordered.

Wasn't that somebody's dream line-up?

Worst basketball I have ever seen.

Have I mentioned that I'm officially done with Julius Randle.

Picks + expirings, whatever, I'm good.


** and if it turns out that he is hurt or overworked or who knows the F what, then it's Thibs fault for playing him, but since Thibs is the coach I still need him gone cause I don't want to see this %ish anymore

** and if it turns out that there is some crazy offcourt %$%$ish he is dealing with, then let him go deal with it cause I don't want to see this %ish anymore

Come on Doggie, King Julius has proven what he can do. He probably just needs some rest, or some time off.

Like you said, maybe it is Thibs fault, we do not know.

But if that is the case, the logical conclusion would be to fire whoever fault it is, dont you think?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 30, 2021, 12:07:25 AM
Julius needs to get his mojo back but even with Alpha Julius the team can't go far if he is the best player on the team.   Prefer to roll Obi out there to score and contribute in many ways off movement rather than have to be the point of attack.  That type of iso heavy offense is so easy to defend.  Rather field a five headed snake with guys like Obi, IQ, Burks, taj, rose etc
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 30, 2021, 12:43:07 AM
S h o o t


b e t t e r
Title: King Julius
Post by: carlos123 on December 30, 2021, 01:23:32 AM
Hey Kamster, good point about the five headed snake.
Still, Randle does a few other things well, in addition to not shooting lately.
The worst part is the turnovers, really ugly.
It is as if his head is not in the game.
That ship needs to be righted before it sinks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 30, 2021, 02:58:26 AM
BOS shot 4-42 on 3's.
The starters: 1-28.
Brutal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 30, 2021, 08:48:22 AM
What blew me away in today's story about Xian, those poor 13 million mf'ers (insert "starving" as you wish, many with no access to food, lol) aren't even allowed to open their windows because of the $%# they're spraying on every inch of the city.. normal as fuk, lol,

What blew me away in the Boston box: Jaylen Brown's 36 FGA....without a single assist.

Turns out it ties the NBA record.


*** intriguing list of leaders in this category, 30+ FGA no assists...very few have shot as poorly as Jaylen and continued to hoist away: lot of bigs known for scoring but not passing (Patrick's on it three times as is AD) Kobe jackmaster uno is there of course as is the Iceman; a couple "so hot why pass" performances - Melo!, Antoine Walker! Mike Mitchell earning multiple spots for the Stepien-era cavs.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=most+field+goal+attempts+in+an+nba+game+without+an+assist+since+1979-80 (https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=most+field+goal+attempts+in+an+nba+game+without+an+assist+since+1979-80)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 30, 2021, 09:16:21 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 30, 2021, 12:43:07 AM
S h o o t


b e t t e r

Disagree.

Yeah, if you shoot better, you'll win more.

But it's the kind of shots. When our offense is stagnant, it's easier to defend. Few easy shots. The "second unit" seems much faster, fluid, and pesky. More like to disrupt other team's mojo.
Title: Re: Observations
Post by: elephant on December 30, 2021, 09:19:37 AM
Quote from: Kam on December 29, 2021, 08:33:27 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 29, 2021, 05:00:55 PM
* To paraphrase what Wally said regarding Julius. 

More than two dribbles and he gets in trouble. 


Smart man.   Wally reads the forum ; )

When Wally said that, I was thinking....

"Good. So who's gonna tell Julius?"
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 30, 2021, 10:06:31 AM
RJ shot a wide open 3 from the corner three feet over the hoop.  Dont give me that shit

Almost as bad as the drive he made where he missed a wide open Mitch 2 feet from the hoop and proceeded to clank the layup

Grimes meanwhile took 5 shots - all three pointers.  I see that going to the hoop thing is going good for him

My guess is Chip doesnt post on Grimes today
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 30, 2021, 10:08:01 AM
Meanwhile we are 17-18, back in pretty good shape.
Title: Randle in covid protocols
Post by: Kam on December 30, 2021, 01:01:35 PM
Start OBI!

Kemba
RJ. (should be IQ but thibs plays favorites)
Grimes
Obi
Robinson

IQ, Gibson, Deuce, Burks off the pine.
Title: Re: A Wally Pipp Moment?
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 30, 2021, 01:29:45 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on December 29, 2021, 11:14:04 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 29, 2021, 07:15:39 PM

Robinson-Randle-RJ-Grimes-Kemba

Just what the docotor ordered.

Wasn't that somebody's dream line-up?

Worst basketball I have ever seen.

Have I mentioned that I'm officially done with Julius Randle.

Picks + expirings, whatever, I'm good.


** and if it turns out that he is hurt or overworked or who knows the F what, then it's Thibs fault for playing him, but since Thibs is the coach I still need him gone cause I don't want to see this %ish anymore

** and if it turns out that there is some crazy offcourt %$%$ish he is dealing with, then let him go deal with it cause I don't want to see this %ish anymore

That is fair, I guess.  Happy hunting.

But the rest of us are looking for the highest seed we can get.

Progress = 2 straight years in playoffs - and maybe a Game Seven or dare I say a series win.

My dealing Barrett has to do with

a)  getting a  better guy in return

and

b)  making sure we use the asset well before he defines MEDIOCRE overpaid NBA guy.

Problem is matching Barrett's size when we replace him.  That's a tough one.
Title: Everyone plays better without Randle
Post by: Kam on December 30, 2021, 01:39:37 PM
 https://twitter.com/Tom_Piccolo/status/1476553617712857091 (https://twitter.com/Tom_Piccolo/status/1476553617712857091)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 30, 2021, 01:48:05 PM
Robinson-Randle-RJ-Grimes-Kemba

I wouldn't give up on that lineup.
Kemba was already starting to slump after playing big minutes lately and it was a B2B.
Only saw the 3Q and some of the 4Q, but Wally was saying that Kemba didn't look right and thought the knee was troubling him.  Grimes was out of sync 4Q of last game.
And Randle was just out of it this game.  RJB looked bad as well.
I'd like to see the same lineup when Kemba isn't worn down and Julius is engaged.

Mid 3Q, Randle has consecutive turnovers, RJB gets doubled and throws a feeble pass for another turn.   Grime has some dribbling trouble.  So I'm begging the Knix to get the ball into Kemba's hands.  Which they finally do.  Walker takes two dribbles and jacks a contested 3.  DET scores again and Knix down 14.  Yikes.  Ballhandling and passing isn't/shouldn't be that hard.

2nd unit brought energy on both ends.  McBride gets after guys.  Quix is fast twitch on both ends.  Toppings heads rimwards,  But Burks was the man.  Saved the game.
Title: Re: Randle in covid protocols
Post by: facilitatorn on December 30, 2021, 01:58:42 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 30, 2021, 01:01:35 PM
Start OBI!

Kemba
RJ. (should be IQ but thibs plays favorites)
Grimes
Obi
Robinson

IQ, Gibson, Deuce, Burks off the pine.

With Randle entering protocols, it is somewhat likely that Thibs will listen to you.

Knox or Dot as the backup power forward in this stretch?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 30, 2021, 02:08:48 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 30, 2021, 01:48:05 PM
Robinson-Randle-RJ-Grimes-Kemba

I wouldn't give up on that lineup


The league says you must.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 30, 2021, 02:24:59 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 30, 2021, 10:06:31 AM
RJ shot a wide open 3 from the corner three feet over the hoop.  Dont give me that shit

Almost as bad as the drive he made where he missed a wide open Mitch 2 feet from the hoop and proceeded to clank the layup

Grimes meanwhile took 5 shots - all three pointers.  I see that going to the hoop thing is going good for him

My guess is Chip doesnt post on Grimes today

Grimes has a day where he's missing shots.

So what?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 30, 2021, 02:28:32 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on December 30, 2021, 01:48:05 PM
Robinson-Randle-RJ-Grimes-Kemba

I wouldn't give up on that lineup.
Kemba was already starting to slump after playing big minutes lately and it was a B2B.
Only saw the 3Q and some of the 4Q, but Wally was saying that Kemba didn't look right and thought the knee was troubling him.  Grimes was out of sync 4Q of last game.
And Randle was just out of it this game.  RJB looked bad as well.
I'd like to see the same lineup when Kemba isn't worn down and Julius is engaged.
Mid 3Q, Randle has consecutive turnovers, RJB gets doubled and throws a feeble pass for another turn.   Grime has some dribbling trouble.  So I'm begging the Knix to get the ball into Kemba's hands.  Which they finally do.  Walker takes two dribbles and jacks a contested 3.  DET scores again and Knix down 14.  Yikes.  Ballhandling and passing isn't/shouldn't be that hard.

Kemba tentative last two games.

Tired?
Title: Normal as Fuk...
Post by: lesterluv on December 30, 2021, 02:29:34 PM
lol, lol, lol...

Chinese police parade suspected Covid rule-breakers through streets

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/30/chinese-police-parade-suspected-covid-rule-breakers-through-streets (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/30/chinese-police-parade-suspected-covid-rule-breakers-through-streets)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FHyhi2YVEAQrfwj?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 30, 2021, 02:30:24 PM
Great news about Randle by the way!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 30, 2021, 02:31:26 PM
Obi much improved this year. So fucking fun to watch.

Wish it didn't take Randle on covid protocol to give him more time.
Title: Re: Everyone plays better without Randle
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 30, 2021, 03:01:44 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 30, 2021, 01:39:37 PM
https://twitter.com/Tom_Piccolo/status/1476553617712857091 (https://twitter.com/Tom_Piccolo/status/1476553617712857091)

...and Darryl Strawberry only homers when Mets are up by a lot.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 30, 2021, 03:03:48 PM
Quote from: elephant on December 30, 2021, 02:24:59 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 30, 2021, 10:06:31 AM
RJ shot a wide open 3 from the corner three feet over the hoop.  Dont give me that shit

Almost as bad as the drive he made where he missed a wide open Mitch 2 feet from the hoop and proceeded to clank the layup

Grimes meanwhile took 5 shots - all three pointers.  I see that going to the hoop thing is going good for him

My guess is Chip doesnt post on Grimes today

Grimes has a day where he's missing shots.

So what?

You just want him shooting threes?  Not sure this works if he is to be a 25-30+ minute guy
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 30, 2021, 03:04:46 PM
Still better than Knox
Title: Open Borders, rofl...
Post by: lesterluv on December 30, 2021, 03:18:00 PM
Only in Bo Zo's Matrix.....a regular hotel caleefornya!

China Stops Issuing New Passports, Slaps Entry, Exit Curbs on Citizens
https://www.rfa.org/english/news/china/curbs-08062021095546.html

Normal as fuk!
Title: Re: Everyone plays better without Randle
Post by: Kam on December 30, 2021, 03:50:22 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 30, 2021, 03:01:44 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 30, 2021, 01:39:37 PM
https://twitter.com/Tom_Piccolo/status/1476553617712857091 (https://twitter.com/Tom_Piccolo/status/1476553617712857091)

...and Darryl Strawberry only homers when Mets are up by a lot.

Do you have any proof?
Title: You Know What
Post by: chipstern on December 30, 2021, 03:57:02 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on December 30, 2021, 02:30:24 PM
Great news about Randle by the way!

You know what?

I'm a big Randle fan, and have been very very frustrated by the general slippage in his game of late.  And think Obi has earned more minutes. 

Be that as it may, the brother has a wife, and what, a five year old son and a newborn baby boy in the house.   

And you exult as to how it is GREAT NEWS!  That a young man has entered COVID protocols, and God Knows how it might effect & infect his wife and kids?

And this is what passes for a sense of humor in a theoretically sentient being? 

You're a real no class, mean spirited douche nozzle, aren't you?

(https://c.tenor.com/7hLTZQ5wwtwAAAAM/middle-finger-fuck.gif)

GO FUCK YOURSELF 

Title: Re: Normal as Fuk...
Post by: Kam on December 30, 2021, 03:58:50 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on December 30, 2021, 02:29:34 PM
lol, lol, lol...

Chinese police parade suspected Covid rule-breakers through street


China's general administration of sports just banned tattoos and called for existing athletes to have their ink removed.
Title: Chamaco & Les
Post by: carlos123 on December 30, 2021, 04:33:09 PM
I never thought they would go together on anything, but between the two of them they want to gut this team fast. We all know Chamaco loves to trade # 1s, so no surprise he wants to get rid of RJB. But Les, my favorite doggie wanting to drop King Julius? Come on doggie, give the man a break.
Randle and RJB were the Knicks core last season and its best two players. I believe they still are, if only properly coached and their minutes managed.
Title: reply
Post by: lesterluv on December 30, 2021, 04:38:14 PM
lol, don't spank me too hard!!

It's good for us. It's good for him.

Thibs & Jules were locked together in the engine of a train headed off the rails. Couldn't let go of each other to stop the train.

Now everybody gets to recalibrate.

Get his body in shape. Get his brain in shape. Let's start over.


*** the mf'er wants to wear Bernard's number he better start honoring it when he comes back

*****Not too worried about his health. Know about 50 folks infected right now. Vaxxed? Pretty much no problems. The rest. Don't give a F...

Quote from: chipstern on December 30, 2021, 03:57:02 PM

You're a real no class, mean spirited douche nozzle, aren't you?
 

Plead guilty. But luckily it's not an everyday thing, bout twice a week. Then it passes.
Title: Re: Normal as Fuk...
Post by: lesterluv on December 30, 2021, 04:41:07 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 30, 2021, 03:58:50 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on December 30, 2021, 02:29:34 PM
lol, lol, lol...

Chinese police parade suspected Covid rule-breakers through street


China's general administration of sports just banned tattoos and called for existing athletes to have their ink removed.

Guess the influx of ex-NBA'ers to China is over
Title: Re: reply
Post by: chipstern on December 30, 2021, 04:43:11 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on December 30, 2021, 04:38:14 PM
lol, don't spank me too hard!!

It's good for us. It's good for him.

Thibs & Jules were locked together in the engine of a train headed off the rails. Couldn't let go of each other to stop the train.

Now everybody gets to recalibrate.

Get his body in shape. Get his brain in shape. Let's start over.


*** the mf'er wants to wear Bernard's number he better start honoring it when he comes back

*****Not too worried about his health. Know about 50 folks infected right now. Vaxxed? Pretty much no problems. The rest. Don't give a F...

Now THAT is NOT what YOU said, is it? 
Title: Re: reply
Post by: lesterluv on December 30, 2021, 04:46:03 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 30, 2021, 04:43:11 PM

Now THAT is NOT what YOU said, is it?

watching those starter minutes gives me vicious mood swings


**** did you watch that %^$^ straight through?
Title: BS
Post by: chipstern on December 30, 2021, 04:52:01 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on December 30, 2021, 04:46:03 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 30, 2021, 04:43:11 PM

Now THAT is NOT what YOU said, is it?

watching those starter minutes gives me vicious mood swings


**** did you watch that %^$^ straight through?

Last I checked turnovers were not a capital offense. 

More to the point, you ENJOY being an asshole. 

(https://i.imgur.com/nyjltSl.gif?noredirect)

You are the Martin Shkreli of the ELBA Forum. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 30, 2021, 04:59:54 PM
turnovers, you think I'm just talking about turnovers, lol....motherfucker stops trying to play basketball for minutes at a time, sulks, barks at the refs, gives piss-all, ain't fun to watch.

but yeah, now that you mention it, don't need to see that turnover shit EVER AGAIN

https://youtu.be/gBfU3ltj5t8 (https://youtu.be/gBfU3ltj5t8)

really, love to see him come back with a different number, he's soiling it.

Title: Let go of my doggie 🐶
Post by: carlos123 on December 30, 2021, 05:40:30 PM
Come on Chip. Les already plead guilty and has shown remorse. He is a good boy.

Let go of my doggie 🐶
Title: Re: Let go of my doggie 🐶
Post by: chipstern on December 30, 2021, 05:48:47 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 30, 2021, 05:40:30 PM
Come on Chip. Les already plead guilty and has shown remorse. He is a good boy.

Let go of my doggie 🐶

(https://i.pinimg.com/236x/cd/1b/76/cd1b764ba74da6f9e378077257695bc6--dog-the-ojays.jpg)
Title: Re: Let go of my doggie 🐶
Post by: carlos123 on December 30, 2021, 07:26:21 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 30, 2021, 05:48:47 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 30, 2021, 05:40:30 PM
Come on Chip. Les already plead guilty and has shown remorse. He is a good boy.

Let go of my doggie 🐶

(https://i.pinimg.com/236x/cd/1b/76/cd1b764ba74da6f9e378077257695bc6--dog-the-ojays.jpg)

Thanks Chip, you are not a doggie, but you are also a good boy 👦
Everybody loves my doggie 🐶
Hey Les, u like your broccoli?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on December 30, 2021, 10:35:32 PM
At least Julius gets some time to rest and get his head together.  Assuming he's mostly asymptomatic and doesn't have to deal with an intra-family outbreak.

I wish we had a defensive PF to bring in as a starter. 
Time for ObiT to show what he can do with the starters.  Hopefully inject energy and get some easy baskets.  If Kemba is worn down, maybe both IQ and ObiT can start.  They are a good pairing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 30, 2021, 11:39:04 PM
Radical suggestion?

Start the "2nd" team. The guys who won the game in Detroit.

Let Kemba, Barrett and company come in later and show what they got.

I know it's a fantasy. But I'd love to see it.
Title: Go Knicks [Happy New Year?]
Post by: chipstern on December 31, 2021, 10:29:02 AM
(https://scontent-lga3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/270980415_10223548846563272_782991834957045992_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=EdAP8tQeQzgAX-innn6&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-2.xx&oh=00_AT9mYcjjwzJlTIQf9IlmI4JcELu-bLjcaNDel93UAxQrQQ&oe=61D3F317)
Title: The Answer Is Simple [So Is The Poster]
Post by: chipstern on December 31, 2021, 10:48:39 AM
Quote from: elephant on December 30, 2021, 02:24:59 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 30, 2021, 10:06:31 AM
RJ shot a wide open 3 from the corner three feet over the hoop.  Dont give me that shit

Almost as bad as the drive he made where he missed a wide open Mitch 2 feet from the hoop and proceeded to clank the layup

Grimes meanwhile took 5 shots - all three pointers.  I see that going to the hoop thing is going good for him

My guess is Chip doesnt post on Grimes today

Grimes has a day where he's missing shots.

So what?

Clearly Kiid Simpleton would like us to ship off Grimes and RJ for a couple of #2 picks, and sign Jimmer to a 10 Day Contract. 
Title: Chamaco auto-responses
Post by: carlos123 on December 31, 2021, 12:19:44 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 31, 2021, 10:48:39 AM
Quote from: elephant on December 30, 2021, 02:24:59 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on December 30, 2021, 10:06:31 AM
RJ shot a wide open 3 from the corner three feet over the hoop.  Dont give me that shit

Almost as bad as the drive he made where he missed a wide open Mitch 2 feet from the hoop and proceeded to clank the layup

Grimes meanwhile took 5 shots - all three pointers.  I see that going to the hoop thing is going good for him

My guess is Chip doesnt post on Grimes today

Grimes has a day where he's missing shots.

So what?

Clearly Kiid Simpleton would like us to ship off Grimes and RJ for a couple of #2 picks, and sign Jimmer to a 10 Day Contract.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLW7GtkO0uOd1uQ5lhXF05Ise4h_yF_WyxHhiFIIXvPRJCJIBJ9HaSMqMB2-pFHV5Gsz9HwHf27zfe1gRgwEjE8drhWLiU_8VQjKBMxyk1V_5ewz4C5VIW4ZvaeS5hPlhCMNt1nXi-FxdEb3CV4u2nA8=w626-h570-no?authuser=0)
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on December 29, 2021, 07:22:31 PM
Virus working for Isaiah, Greg Monroe and some others.  Could a Jimmer sighting be far away?
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLWDWClzFZzeXctKJuxzagN1j46e6zq2EAoiDDmPh038jX2OPXG_5aykUoA1OBqeSIavC_nq-S_O1Q2hSePOp0ur9dZQcXJ7dXFFzjfZv9Cmigq01nVn4CLQyov_QFrvbrz_63zEXtCipUQmqm7n1UkT=w626-h570-no?authuser=0)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 31, 2021, 01:52:42 PM
Quote from: elephant on December 30, 2021, 11:39:04 PM
Radical suggestion?

Start the "2nd" team. The guys who won the game in Detroit.

Let Kemba, Barrett and company come in later and show what they got.

I know it's a fantasy. But I'd love to see it.

Co-sign.   Sends a message.  Although with Randle in protocols I expect the starters to play completely different. 

The Randle fans need to remember his first year as a Knick (and his whole career before that) before slavishly bringing up last year ad nauseum.

We got contract-year no fans in the stands low team expectations hot shooting Randle for 72 games.

He NOW is what he always was.
Title: King Julius
Post by: carlos123 on December 31, 2021, 02:34:01 PM
Quote from: Kamster on December 31, 2021, 01:52:42 PM

He NOW is what he always was.

True, Kamster.

But we also know what he CAN be.

Aint giving up here.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 31, 2021, 03:05:02 PM
If he set screens as diligently as Jericho, Taj, or Obi, and did more give it up, move, and get it back, we would probably have more efficient offense with Jules in a statistical happy middle ground, less dings, and more energy for defense. Training and utilization need to shift in this contract. He has nothing to prove and every incentive to help the Knicks consistently win over the next few years. That is how he becomes a bargain and a hero and avoids being thought of as any type of albatross, as has happened to so many high talent big ticket guys here before.
Title: Re: King Julius
Post by: chipstern on December 31, 2021, 05:00:48 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 31, 2021, 02:34:01 PM
Quote from: Kamster on December 31, 2021, 01:52:42 PM

He NOW is what he always was.

True, Kamster.

But we also know what he CAN be.

Aint giving up here.

2020-2021 was NOT a MIRAGE. 

More than meets the eye here. 
Title: WORD
Post by: chipstern on December 31, 2021, 05:02:52 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 31, 2021, 03:05:02 PM
If he set screens as diligently as Jericho, Taj, or Obi, and did more give it up, move, and get it back, we would probably have more efficient offense with Jules in a statistical happy middle ground, less dings, and more energy for defense.
Title: Re: King Julius
Post by: carlos123 on December 31, 2021, 05:41:55 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 31, 2021, 05:00:48 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 31, 2021, 02:34:01 PM
Quote from: Kamster on December 31, 2021, 01:52:42 PM

He NOW is what he always was.

True, Kamster.

But we also know what he CAN be.

Aint giving up here.

2020-2021 was NOT a MIRAGE. 

More than meets the eye here.

True dat, Chip.
I have been blaming it on Thibs system (to call it something), though I know we do not agree on this point.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 31, 2021, 06:33:58 PM
Albatross?

Randle has turned this team around
Title: Thanks Thibs
Post by: chipstern on December 31, 2021, 08:14:30 PM
Pinch Me

Robinson
Toppin
RJ
Fournier
McBride
Title: Terrorists stromectol coracoacromial orthopnoea, tremendous echocardiography open, flexion.
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Title: Yikes
Post by: chipstern on December 31, 2021, 10:03:03 PM
Don't pinch my scrotum. 

Well, now. 

That was a FESTIVAL OF FUTILITY. 

Three minutes to go? 

OKC, worst 3-point shooting team in the league, had hit 18 of 41. 

Our three point defense? 

How's about our three point offense.  Other than Burks' 2-2, a combined 8-41. 

And just to rub salt in the wounds, 12-22 FTs.

WHOOSH

Why are shooting 41 fucking threes.  Fruit ain't falling?  Get to the rack, least ways like RJ. 


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 31, 2021, 10:09:29 PM
Forum couldn't wait for Knicks to win so they could cut into Julius

Heh
Title: Mr. heh (and lol) strikes yet again #43843
Post by: carlos123 on December 31, 2021, 10:31:38 PM
Quote from: chamAAcocartero8 on December 31, 2021, 10:09:29 PM
Forum couldn't wait for Knicks to win so they could cut into Julius

Heh

ChamAAco REALLY enjoying the loss, so he can prove he is not a total moron.

Got news for you, Chamaco, YES YOU ARE. And even though your moronic little head thinks you are the only one stating the obvious about King Julius, you are WRONG, as usual, you little diarrheal Caucasian turd.

U enjoying this shameful whooping by lowly OKC? Go wank yourself!


- Help Chamaco Cartero! -
(he needs it much more than Andy Parker)


HAPPY NEW YEAR ALL! 🥂
Title: Re: Mr. heh (and lol) strikes yet again #43843
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 31, 2021, 11:02:48 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 31, 2021, 10:31:38 PM
Quote from: chamAAcocartero8 on December 31, 2021, 10:09:29 PM
Forum couldn't wait for Knicks to win so they could cut into Julius

Heh

ChamAAco REALLY enjoying the loss, so he can prove he is not a total moron.

Got news for you, Chamaco, YES YOU ARE. And even though your moronic little head thinks you are the only one stating the obvious about King Julius, you are WRONG, as usual, you little diarrheal Caucasian turd.

U enjoying this shameful whooping by lowly OKC? Go wank yourself!


- Help Chamaco Cartero! -
(he needs it much more than Andy Parker)


HAPPY NEW YEAR ALL! 🥂

You are impressive in your inferiority, hermano

Have a Coke and a smile.
Title: Re: Mr. heh (and lol) strikes yet again #43843
Post by: carlos123 on December 31, 2021, 11:16:49 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 31, 2021, 11:02:48 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 31, 2021, 10:31:38 PM
Quote from: chamAAcocartero8 on December 31, 2021, 10:09:29 PM
Forum couldn't wait for Knicks to win so they could cut into Julius

Heh

ChamAAco REALLY enjoying the loss, so he can prove he is not a total moron.

Got news for you, Chamaco, YES YOU ARE. And even though your moronic little head thinks you are the only one stating the obvious about King Julius, you are WRONG, as usual, you little diarrheal Caucasian turd.

U enjoying this shameful whooping by lowly OKC? Go wank yourself!


- Help Chamaco Cartero! -
(he needs it much more than Andy Parker)


HAPPY NEW YEAR ALL! 🥂

You are impressive in your inferiority, hermano

Have a Coke and a smile.

I am sure you consider me inferior.

I would not have it any other way. Thank you.

Happy New Year, Chamaco 😁

PS. Not your brother (estoy seguro que ni hablas ni entiendes espanol).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on January 01, 2022, 01:34:02 PM
Sam Jones #24

I loved his game

the master of the glass

a wizard of the window

when Sam went up for his 15-20' jumper the angle was measured and precise, the shot was true and he called glass, BANG!

the best bank shot ever

EVER

and I don't say that lightly.

RIP Sam


and Happy New Years to the Knicks Forum

may '22 be good to you and yours.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 01, 2022, 03:35:52 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on January 01, 2022, 01:34:02 PM
Sam Jones #24

I loved his game

the master of the glass

a wizard of the window

when Sam went up for his 15-20' jumper the angle was measured and precise, the shot was true and he called glass, BANG!

the best bank shot ever

EVER

and I don't say that lightly.

RIP Sam


and Happy New Years to the Knicks Forum

may '22 be good to you and yours.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jonessa01.html (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jonessa01.html)

Sam Was MONEY
Title: Happy New Year
Post by: chipstern on January 01, 2022, 03:57:15 PM
(https://scontent-lga3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/271186091_10223555521770148_9179010546282310614_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=Taz9rKi2OAgAX8ml0g8&tn=xl05267qLY6AVrGm&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-2.xx&oh=00_AT9btyZhphSs5Cgu_WlvFaVE0s8BH19MV84Uhisvz1EOgg&oe=61D5283D)

Knicks center Mitchell Robinson is now in COVID-19 protocols, the team announced. That makes three of their centers in the protocols, meaning the Knicks will likely have to sign a big man as a replacement player.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 02, 2022, 03:04:03 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 31, 2021, 10:09:29 PM
Forum couldn't wait for Knicks to win so they could cut into Julius
Heh

That sure reveals a lot more of you than it does anyone else here.

Watched much of the 1st 3Q's.
RJB was playing hard.  ObiT rarely touched the ball (except to inbounds).  I guess that's the problem with no real PG out there.
IQ was looking for his own (just one assist).

Mitch started off with 3 dunks in the first 1.378 seconds and finished with just 5 FG's.  Why didn't the Knix ever go back to him?  OKC had no size.  Mitch also stopped a number of drives.
Similarly, Roby was killing it with 2 3's and 9 boards in 18 mins. But just 18 minutes.
Was that the chess match, if Mitch was in use stretch Roby?

OKC bench killed us with 3's.
FourEva was hobbled.
ObiT & McBride didn't get much done.

Guess I'll peep the 4Q and see what Knox had on offer.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 02, 2022, 11:08:21 AM
Link posted earlier.  Warren Jabali on race and badketball


http://www.remembertheaba.com/tributematerial/jabali.html
Title: Protocols
Post by: chipstern on January 02, 2022, 12:29:39 PM
Mitchell joins Nerlens AND Jericho in COVID Country. 

Taj looks to play big minutes. 

PF Luka Samanic was on a tear for Westchester when he went down with a foot injury on December 13.  No word on the nature of severity, and I do not expect to see him in Thibs' rotation. 

So: Who is out?

[Rose], Randle, Walker, Robinson, Noel, Sims for sure.  Selden and Samanic.  Fournier has a gimpy ankle. 

Taj-Obi-RJ-Burks-IQ
Knox-Grimes-McBride

That's ALL Folks

Yikes

Our sub center from last year, what was his name, Norvell Pell?  Just signed with someone.  Bismark Biyombo signed with the Suns. 

In the name of GOD, whatsoever the matchups, and they should prove daunting, I sincerely hope we do not settle for 40 three pointers.

(https://www.proballers.com/media/cache/torso_player/ul/player/56093-3-5cfce209e82d1.jpg)

Luka, get well soon.  If he was good to go, would likely see some actual factual minutes. 

Expect to see Obi play some center and Kevin some PF.  After that, it is a scrum. 

Gut check for an over matched 8 man rotation against a Raptors team that is on an upwards ascent. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 02, 2022, 01:31:18 PM
Program note

330 start today
Title: Go Figure
Post by: chipstern on January 02, 2022, 02:42:28 PM
According to Shams Charania

The New York Knicks are planning to sign guard former Villinova PG Ryan Arcidiacono to a 10 day contract.

There is a strong possibility for Arcidiacono to stick for the season.

I guess we passed on the Jimmer. 

PS: The Bucks just inked Luke Kornet, one of David Fizdale's many player development projects. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 02, 2022, 03:17:24 PM
Great pickup

Sign champions

You just saw what Ty Jerome did to us
Title: Fournier
Post by: chipstern on January 02, 2022, 03:19:46 PM
Evan is suiting up today. 
Title: By The Way...
Post by: chipstern on January 02, 2022, 04:10:42 PM
Jets had Tampa Bay on the ropes, leading from the gitgo. 

Under a minute to go?

TOM BRADY. 

Looks like rain. 

Damn. 

PS: Antonio Brown is a very disturbed individual. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 02, 2022, 04:12:53 PM
Props to Brady

Jets coach lost game.  And Jets protect their draft slot
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 02, 2022, 04:14:36 PM
Meanwhile Kevin Knox just caught a pass and took three running steps to the hoop, forgetting to dribble.

More vets please
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 02, 2022, 04:17:06 PM
Just Dots on and Mooney left after those that have played.

RJ and Miles real stiff today
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 02, 2022, 04:46:32 PM
Knox looked like a scrub on both ends.

IQ had an awful spell in there for a while. Multiple poor plays.

Looking for guys to step up.....but nobody seems much in the mood.
Title: Fred Van Vleet
Post by: chipstern on January 02, 2022, 05:18:18 PM
IQ, take notice. 

A beast on both sides of the ball.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 02, 2022, 05:18:43 PM
FVV has 30 and Thibs has Deuce on ice
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on January 03, 2022, 09:02:03 AM
Jets have shown seasonal improvement unlike jints.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 03, 2022, 10:18:02 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 02, 2022, 11:08:21 AM
Link posted earlier.  Warren Jabali on race and badketball


http://www.remembertheaba.com/tributematerial/jabali.html

Thanks!
Title: Wheeling & Dealing
Post by: chipstern on January 03, 2022, 03:55:40 PM
Something seems to be afoot.

First the Ryan Arcidiacono signing, Villinova PG, on a 10-Day. 

Then cutting Wayne Selden to open up a roster spot. 

Then peripheral involvement in the Cavs-Lakers trade, with Rajon Rondo going to the Cavs, Denzel Valentine to the Lakers, and Valentine being rerouted to the Knicks for cash considerations. 

Also, a host of second round stash assets, none of whom is likley to see any face time in the NBA, passed around. 

For absorbing Valentine, Knicks cop 1.1 million cash considerations from the Lakers. 

What exactly is afoot?  Some other moves coming? 

Can't quite see wasssup, but Arcidiacono would seem likely to stick, as I suspect Walker is out for a while, along with Rose, IQ and Burks are more combo guards, McBride is still getting his feet wet. 

Not sure if there is some more impactful wheeling and dealing on the horizon, but I suspect Dawg's wet dream is not in the cards, as per Thibs. 
Title: Exhale
Post by: chipstern on January 03, 2022, 05:11:49 PM
Mitchell and Jericho have cleared protocols. 
Title: Arcidiacono
Post by: chipstern on January 04, 2022, 04:04:14 PM
League invalidated Arcidiacono signing. 

Procedural issues, having to do with protocols and personnel.

Got me. 

Thinking is they will revisit and resubmit a 10 day contract. 
Title: Noels
Post by: chipstern on January 04, 2022, 07:04:35 PM
Off Protocols. 

Needs conditioning.  Won't play tonight. 
Title: This Just In
Post by: chipstern on January 04, 2022, 07:08:50 PM
MITCHELL

JERICHO

Julius

All Available Tonight
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 04, 2022, 11:22:09 PM
Jules looked better after his rest cure.

RJ had a very nice game.

Between those factors and the pacers shorthandedness, we were able to overcome Fournier and still get the win.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 04, 2022, 11:32:59 PM
Wow, that was last year's Randle on display tonight.

Confident. Focused. Fierce with the rebounds.

Can we see it again Thursday against the Celtics?

Title: King Julius
Post by: carlos123 on January 05, 2022, 12:56:33 AM
I knew King Julius would be back.
He just needed a break.
Nobody can play 35 minutes plus a game for a whole season.
Thibs needs to learn to manage minutes and not overwork players into smithereens.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 05, 2022, 07:01:31 AM
RJB with another strong driving game. 
FourEva somnambulent. 
Shouldn't have struggled against their G-League backcourt.  Credit whoever those guys were (Sykes & Washington).  It's been fun to see GLeaguers get NBA starts and long minutes.
Sabonis too slow-footed for Randle.
IQ needs to pass.  Especially with other PG's unavailable.
Not sure why MyTurn never gets the ball.
Good to see Torey Craig play well, always a hustler with some skills.

General league trade talks centers around Jerami Grant,
And poaching someone from IND or POR, two expensive, heavily underperforming teams.
The Kings needing to shake things up.  With ATL also underwhelming, and their GM getting jittery.
One of those 4-5 teams will send out a semi-desirable player.
I think some deals will go down, as m,any tams feel they can contend and many need rests.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 05, 2022, 09:33:54 AM
It took 154 games, but Julius Randle and RJ Barrett both scored over 30 points on the same night.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 05, 2022, 09:51:38 AM
Good to see Randle refreshed as anticipated.
Wouldn't have minded a longer refresh.

Still, it took a few plays to purge Bad Randle.

That first turnover. Where he coughs up the ball. Chases the steal all the way down court. Then retreats off the ball and watches indifferently as the thief pops an uncontested three. Yick.

That second turnover. Coughs up the ball. Barely runs back.

Maybe I got 'em reversed.

Things got better, tho...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 05, 2022, 11:24:44 AM
I like Wally on game calls.  Informative, enthusiastic, positive.  Wally's forte remains O and he's still not much on defense.  The other game he claimed Knox was playing excellent D before he got Covid-ed.  And he frequently overpraises mediocre Knick defenders.  Seems Wally equates activity with good D.  Breen is also usually overly diplomatic, saying such as 'A little miscommunication on that play' as nobody is near a 3-point shooter or someone gets to the rim unimpeded.  Instead of noting that the miscommunications almost always involve at least one of Randle, Fournier, Burks. 

IND game Breen was surprised Burks committed a dumb foul on a 3Pt shot, calling him "Usually such a smart defender."  What he failed to notice was Burks midget assignment was a good 6' behind Sabonis, but Burks oddly veered in and ran into Sabonis for no reason.  If Burks just kept his course he would have been well clear of the barely attempted screen.  So Burks had to disentangle himself from his self-caused collision with Sabonis and then lunged to foul the 3-point shooter.  One dumb mistake cascading into another. 

Burks is routinely awful dealing with screens (and has trouble reading switches).  Was an issue last year as well.  There was a play in the OKC game with a bit under 3 mins left in the 2Q.  OKC has a Big with the ball stationed along the left baseline and both guards are dancing around there.  One OKC G starts flaring out along the 3 point arc.  You can see Fournier point for Burks to take the other G in the corner, as FourEva heads for the potential perimeter shooter.  Two beats and inexplicably Burks takes the exact same interior route that Fournier did trying to cover the very same player.   The now unguarded other  OKC G in the corner simply cuts baseline gets a feed from the Big and slams it home.  Just a bizarre read, as screens befuddle the man.  I do like Burks renewed energy and activity on D this year, and it's led to a fair number of steals and deflections (and sometimes fouls).

Anyway, I just wish there were a little more frankness when it comes to defensive failings.  When Randle was in his recent funk, Breen and Wally were calling him out for slack D, which was unusual and refreshing.  But just seems to me if we're going to praise guys for good defensive plays, they should also be called out for mistakes.  More accountability is a good thing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 05, 2022, 12:23:04 PM
Breen seems not as engaged this year.  I forget why but I was annoyed at something he said last game.   And when he said 'bing bong' the season went off the rails.
Title: Attack Mode
Post by: chipstern on January 05, 2022, 02:27:23 PM
Seeing RJ & Julius CLICK was gratifying. 

Attackng the rim.  Decisive. 

Not settling for threes. 

As goes their chemistry, so go the Knicks. 

As for Dawg and JR's purgative. 

Yes, Julius' initial foray into TurnOverVille was as per usual...over dribbling.  Right into doubles and congested passing lanes   Two quick faux pas. 

Only had one more TO after his initial spasms.

Randle and Sabonis both played 39 minutes. 

Each had three turnovers. 

Sabonis: 15-8-4

Randle: 30-16-4
Title: BoD
Post by: chipstern on January 05, 2022, 02:39:30 PM
As per Bo's ongoing narrative as to the Burks' lousy defense. 

Had 3 steals to go with 14-6-4

Gave us good minutes. On both ends. 

Whears Fournier gave us nothing.  Puzzling.  Something is amiss.  Looked dynamic with the French National team and on opening night.  Since then, not sure which Fournier will show up.

Need a larger sample, but apparently Scott Perry was right about pursuing DeRozan, who has completely transformed the Bulls' chemistry. 

Grimes got a large share of Fournier's minutes. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 05, 2022, 02:52:18 PM
I am liking where we are at with RJ, Randle, and Mitch. Randle has more issues with what he takes on to do than with what he is capable of. He is more than capable.

He should be less of an initiating distributor and more of an attacker and redistributor. Part of it it handle and decisions, part of it is having the energy to put in that kind of work and still have energy to play consistent good D. Even when his D is up he is weak on closeouts but can muster 16 defensive boards while effectively checking the leagues big bodies.

Burks has the package to be an initiating wing, but that does not make him a one to one correspondence to a point guard. He best defends twos and threes though he is somewhat switchable. There will almost always be guys who dwarf or dust him on the court. You want to assign them to someone else and stick Burks on someone in the middle against who he can hold his own. That lets you play Burks with a non pg or developing pg who may be better suited for defending the heck out of other PGs, some of whom we have on the roster.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 05, 2022, 04:53:12 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 05, 2022, 02:52:18 PM
I am liking where we are at with RJ, Randle, and Mitch. Randle has more issues with what he takes on to do than with what he is capable of. He is more than capable.

He should be less of an initiating distributor and more of an attacker and redistributor. Part of it it handle and decisions, part of it is having the energy to put in that kind of work and still have energy to play consistent good D. Even when his D is up he is weak on closeouts but can muster 16 defensive boards while effectively checking the leagues big bodies.

Burks has the package to be an initiating wing, but that does not make him a one to one correspondence to a point guard. He best defends twos and threes though he is somewhat switchable. There will almost always be guys who dwarf or dust him on the court. You want to assign them to someone else and stick Burks on someone in the middle against who he can hold his own. That lets you play Burks with a non pg or developing pg who may be better suited for defending the heck out of other PGs, some of whom we have on the roster.

Agree. 

What was significant last night, is how RJ started very assertively, going to the rack, and finishing with his right hand as well as his left. 

Randle immediately sensed that he should defer, and helped facilitate RJ, by drawing defenders and redistributing. 

In the second half, he was more assertive in getting his own shots, and RJ reciprocated. 

Title: RJ > Character > Growth
Post by: chipstern on January 05, 2022, 05:08:20 PM
As per one noted handicapper of Knicks talent...

I RECKON WE OUGHT TO TRADE RJ WHILE HE STILL HAS SOME VALUE. 

Heh

PS: Easy to forget.  RJ is 21, y'all. 
Title: That dont really count
Post by: carlos123 on January 05, 2022, 05:56:22 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 05, 2022, 05:08:20 PM
As per one noted handicapper of Knicks talent...

I RECKON WE OUGHT TO TRADE RJ WHILE HE STILL HAS SOME VALUE. 

Heh

PS: Easy to forget.  RJ is 21, y'all.

Chip, the "noted handicapper" was none other than Chamaco.

That dont really count, does it?

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLWDWClzFZzeXctKJuxzagN1j46e6zq2EAoiDDmPh038jX2OPXG_5aykUoA1OBqeSIavC_nq-S_O1Q2hSePOp0ur9dZQcXJ7dXFFzjfZv9Cmigq01nVn4CLQyov_QFrvbrz_63zEXtCipUQmqm7n1UkT=w626-h570-no?authuser=0)
Title: Cham The Sham
Post by: chipstern on January 05, 2022, 06:18:02 PM
(https://cdns-images.dzcdn.net/images/artist/7a48da6267047a22f4d82007bea71cda/264x264.jpg)

Ball Don't Lie

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/f/fredeji01.html (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/f/fredeji01.html)

Title: Chamaco has all the answers
Post by: carlos123 on January 05, 2022, 06:37:19 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 05, 2022, 06:18:02 PM
(https://cdns-images.dzcdn.net/images/artist/7a48da6267047a22f4d82007bea71cda/264x264.jpg)

Ball Don't Lie

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/f/fredeji01.html (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/f/fredeji01.html)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLW52mVdM_DAu_ifV4IAcmUW8Aop2zT-Bk6dgT6HJZt4nHlKvE_4lYFcnw1HHbLapWEqluUz71PO_CtLsiqcY939NIvL_98b1zHoKTWJWOJQRdLsnAcIc2bXAA6DfsCWycCgXCFGnYTfB9cTdxvXBLO-=w626-h570-no?authuser=0)
Title: Lance Stephenson
Post by: chipstern on January 05, 2022, 08:41:30 PM
Lit up the Nyets in the first quarter.  22 points in 14 minutes. 

That minijet Sykes looking good, too. 

Pacers up 73-60 at the half. 

Final five in the fourth quarter. 

Nyets close and take the lead on a couple of patented Kyrie drive and pull up and short jumpers.  Money. 

Pacers down 4 with 5:50 to go. 
Title: Re: Lance Stephenson
Post by: carlos123 on January 05, 2022, 09:58:49 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 05, 2022, 08:41:30 PM
Lit up the Nyets in the first quarter.  22 points in 14 minutes. 

That minijet Sykes looking good, too. 

Pacers up 73-60 at the half. 

Final five in the fourth quarter. 

Nyets close and take the lead on a couple of patented Kyrie drive and pull up and short jumpers.  Money. 

Pacers down 4 with 5:50 to go.
Damn!
I was rooting for the fin Nyets to lose to Indiana the day after we beat them.
Not happening. Nyets up 10 with 1:15 to go.

OTOH, the Dallas Knicks just beat Golden State. Even Ntilikina got in on the action.
No KP, they do not need him.
He still tosses salads in Dallas 😁
Title: Re: Lance Stephenson
Post by: chipstern on January 06, 2022, 02:01:43 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 05, 2022, 09:58:49 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 05, 2022, 08:41:30 PM
Lit up the Nyets in the first quarter.  22 points in 14 minutes. 

That minijet Sykes looking good, too. 

Pacers up 73-60 at the half. 

Final five in the fourth quarter. 

Nyets close and take the lead on a couple of patented Kyrie drive and pull up and short jumpers.  Money. 

Pacers down 4 with 5:50 to go.
Damn!
I was rooting for the fin Nyets to lose to Indiana the day after we beat them.
Not happening. Nyets up 10 with 1:15 to go.

OTOH, the Dallas Knicks just beat Golden State. Even Ntilikina got in on the action.
No KP, they do not need him.
He still tosses salads in Dallas 😁

Frank got one minute, made one trey. 

Stpeh Curry had a quad injury. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 06, 2022, 04:46:47 PM
http://www.thedailybeast.com/this-is-the-day-that-joe-biden-became-president?ref=home (http://www.thedailybeast.com/this-is-the-day-that-joe-biden-became-president?ref=home)
Title: The daily beast
Post by: carlos123 on January 06, 2022, 05:15:36 PM
Fac, we cannot read the story unless we subscribe. Maybe you can post parts of it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 06, 2022, 06:28:41 PM
Burks is athletic and has been energetic and engaged on D.  But some of his reads and decision-making on D are of the head-scratching variety.  Wish he'd learn to be more cognizant of screens and how to navigate them.  In general, Burks shouldn't guard PG's much because they have a speed advantage and tend to use more screens than wings. 

Elsewhere, DA Fox has noticeably upped his defensive effort the past week or two.  He's somewhat overdoing it in the classic 'guy who never played defense in his life is now going to play defense' mode.  But he's actually occasionally picking up a guy just over midcourt.  Took a flying swipe form behind on a Ja game winner.  Took a charge in the paint one game.  He's also been more engaged on O.  Fox and Halliburton still take turns running the O with no/limited interaction between them.

I guess that's next up for Gentry.  But at least he's managed to get Fox playing harder and seem actual defense recently.  Had to harshly call out his team twice. 
Title: Wooosh
Post by: chipstern on January 06, 2022, 08:26:25 PM
Getting BLITZED

Celtics lights out from trey. 

Robert Williams shutting down RJ at the rim. 

Fournier responding to seeing green.  Four treys. 

A moral victory to only be down 16 at the half. 

I like Burks, but man, while he does a lot of things well, he is not a PG.

Sorry Thibs. 
Title: Fournier
Post by: chipstern on January 06, 2022, 09:38:53 PM
Evan keeping us in this game. 

Yikes. 

Un Conscious
Title: Damn RIGHT
Post by: chipstern on January 06, 2022, 09:56:55 PM
Largest Comeback Deficit Overcome Since 2004. 

RJ on a wing and a prayer with 1.5 seconds left. 

Fournier with 41. 

If only Evan could play the Celtics 82 times a year. 

WHAT A FUCKING FINISH. 

Tatum in the clutch. 

RJ with a dagger. 

FUCK ME. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 06, 2022, 09:57:56 PM
The three redeems the missed fts. We are back in the play in. Buh by, Boston. That was a bit too close.
Title: Mirror Images
Post by: chipstern on January 06, 2022, 10:04:51 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 06, 2022, 09:57:56 PM
The three redeems the missed fts. We are back in the play in. Buh by, Boston. That was a bit too close.

Knicks and Celtics are like mirror images of each other. 

Brilliance & Futility. 

We came back from 24 down in the second quarter. 

Missed FTs almost iced us. 

Julius with ZERO turnovers. 

Fournier with 15-25, 10-14 from trey--41-8-2...YIKES

Qucikley with some BIG buckets. 

Robert Williams was a beast. 

Tatum SO TOUGH & CRAFTY. 
Title: Captain Obvious
Post by: Kam on January 06, 2022, 10:17:38 PM
The last 16 minutes of the game .... were the best 16 minutes of the game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 07, 2022, 03:22:35 AM
As for Burks, he's an erratic defender.  He freelances on D much as he does on O. 
It's not hard to find a handful of Burks defensive miscues per game. 

Less than two minutes into the game, Burks drifts from his man all the way to the center of the FT line, despite the very limited threat of Tatum beginning a mild probing drive, while Mitch is already well-positioned to wall off the paint.  An easy direct line pass to Jaylen for a very open 3.  Knix down 9-3 after two minutes.  A completely unnecessary 'leave the outside shooter open' error.  Toppings isn't much on defense, but if he's guarding an outside scoring threat, he stays within reach of his man while defending off the ball.  For Burks and Fournier, the temptation to wander into the paint, way too far to recover in time, is far too compelling.

BOS game, neither team starting a PG.

5 mins into the contest and Burks curiously fronts Jaylen at the 3 point line.  Not sure I've ever seen that strategy before.  Probably because it's insane and Brown simply cut rimward.  Amusingly, Burks seemed surprised by Brown cutting to the rim.  If Bo were coaching, I'd yank a guy after those two unforced defensive errors in the first 5 mins.  See how Grimes does on Jaylen.

4:32 left in 2Q, Burks again sinks to the center of the FT line on as Tatum dribbles harmlessly towards him.  RJB on him, Randle down below.  Nothing going on, but Burks determined to leave his man and double too early, unnecessarily, and too easy to spot and counter.  Simple pass to a wide open Schroder for a BOS 3.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 07, 2022, 05:35:13 AM
RJB had been driving well lately.  But MyTurn swatted him away a few times, and RJB got blocked 3x by BOS in the 1Q.  Randle and RJB with no O.  Knix down 24 late 2Q.

Fournier is a big 1Q guy.  And has been deadly v. the Celts.  The over/under should have been 12 in the 1Q for Fournier.

3' left in 2Q, Burks fights TimeLord for a long rebound.  Then hustles back to his man in time to pick off the kick out pass.  Good effort.  Nice steal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 07, 2022, 09:51:53 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 07, 2022, 03:22:35 AM
As for Burks, he's ...

Burks makes weird decisions.  Remember earlier in the season (maybe even the first boston game) a play he had to inbound the ball late in the 4th, couldn't find anyone at first, seemed to panic a little and nearly threw the ball away.  I love Burks the shooter.  When he is asked to make plays or stop plays from happening he is not as loved.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 07, 2022, 10:11:54 AM
Got the game DVR'd.  Thought all season that Fournier should be taking the most shots, looks like it finally happened
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 07, 2022, 10:12:56 AM
(when is this post-truncation thing gonna stop) Randle's first ZERO TURNOVER GAME since April last. RJB with the killer. Can't wait to watch!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 07, 2022, 10:17:03 AM
An incredible reversal for RJ last night.

He was confounded and embarrassed by Williams. Unable to adapt. And when he returned in the 4th, I was unpleasantly surprised.

And then....the shot.

Basketball is great, man!

BTW, last season's Julius was out in force again last night. Fierce.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 07, 2022, 10:35:55 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on January 07, 2022, 10:12:56 AM
(when is this post-truncation thing gonna stop) Randle's first ZERO TURNOVER GAME since April last. RJB with the killer. Can't wait to watch!

Most of the game was brutal to watch.   Skip to 81-61.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 07, 2022, 10:38:06 AM
Julius was off 1st half, but when Knix got down 25, he decided to put on his hard hat and go to work.
______________________________________________________________________

I didn't understand why BOS mostly guarded FourEva with shrimpy Schroder.
When you're feeling good, just shoot right over the a little guy.
Wasn't til the last 2 mins they finally switched Smart on to Fournier.
I would have done that 2 or 3 quarters earlier.
Don't think BOS is using Smart well on either end this year.
__________________________________

Both teams could really use a PG.

IQ made a bunch of very timely big shots.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 07, 2022, 10:42:06 AM
Quote from: Kam on January 07, 2022, 09:51:53 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 07, 2022, 03:22:35 AM
As for Burks, he's ...

Burks makes weird decisions.  Remember earlier in the season (maybe even the first boston game) a play he had to inbound the ball late in the 4th, couldn't find anyone at first, seemed to panic a little and nearly threw the ball away.  I love Burks the shooter.  When he is asked to make plays or stop plays from happening he is not as loved.

Take what he is.  Hope for spurts of brilliance, steadiness otherwise. Which is what you are getting.

Can be a rotation guy on a contender,  yes, no doubt.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 07, 2022, 12:20:25 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 07, 2022, 10:35:55 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on January 07, 2022, 10:12:56 AM
(when is this post-truncation thing gonna stop) Randle's first ZERO TURNOVER GAME since April last. RJB with the killer. Can't wait to watch!

Most of the game was brutal to watch.   Skip to 81-61.

lol, thanks...will do
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 07, 2022, 01:35:57 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 07, 2022, 10:42:06 AM
Quote from: Kam on January 07, 2022, 09:51:53 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 07, 2022, 03:22:35 AM
As for Burks, he's ...

Burks makes weird decisions.  Remember earlier in the season (maybe even the first boston game) a play he had to inbound the ball late in the 4th, couldn't find anyone at first, seemed to panic a little and nearly threw the ball away.  I love Burks the shooter.  When he is asked to make plays or stop plays from happening he is not as loved.

Take what he is.  Hope for spurts of brilliance, steadiness otherwise. Which is what you are getting.

Can be a rotation guy on a contender,  yes, no doubt.

Yeah.  Bench player. 

Alec Burks is shooting just 33 percent overall and from deep as a starter
Alec Burks is shooting 45 percent overall and 47 percent from long range off the bench.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 07, 2022, 01:53:29 PM
I didn't realize there was a Julius Randle controversy in the late stages of the win, lol, lol...

https://youtu.be/c3XOogp1fu4 (https://youtu.be/c3XOogp1fu4)

Still haven't seen the game, but expect to come down on the side of the TNT crew. Unconditional love reserved for my little lesterdawgs and my little lestercat!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 07, 2022, 02:41:11 PM
Yeah.  Bench player.




YEP


In case you havent noticed this  is a unique season which has put Burks in his sometimes starter role

And dont get started with how we are better with McBride or Quickley starting, please.   

Knicks left themselves in a quandary when they added a questionable medical case to an already questionable guy as our 1 and 2 lead guards.  COVID has not heled either but this is more about knees ankles and other body parts
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 07, 2022, 04:10:42 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 07, 2022, 01:35:57 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 07, 2022, 10:42:06 AM
Quote from: Kam on January 07, 2022, 09:51:53 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 07, 2022, 03:22:35 AM
As for Burks, he's ...

Burks makes weird decisions.  Remember earlier in the season (maybe even the first boston game) a play he had to inbound the ball late in the 4th, couldn't find anyone at first, seemed to panic a little and nearly threw the ball away.  I love Burks the shooter.  When he is asked to make plays or stop plays from happening he is not as loved.

Take what he is.  Hope for spurts of brilliance, steadiness otherwise. Which is what you are getting.

Can be a rotation guy on a contender,  yes, no doubt.

Yeah.  Bench player. 

Alec Burks is shooting just 33 percent overall and from deep as a starter
Alec Burks is shooting 45 percent overall and 47 percent from long range off the bench.

Love Burks. Singlehandedly won us a number of games last year. And has been critical in several wins this year.

Seems much better coming off the bench. But I just attribute that to the mix, not to some weird psychology about starting. If there's chemistry with Burks and Julius, I haven't seen it.

(I don't think Fournier and Barrett seem to work well together either)
Title: Bully Boy [LJ]
Post by: chipstern on January 07, 2022, 05:19:18 PM
22-8-2-2

One foul

ZERO turnovers

In the third quarter Julius translated his anger & frustration into a level of aggression in which he muscled his way to the rack and helped bring the Knicks back into the game. 

As for Kenny and Charles, well, bully for them. 

Love is a two way street. 

Like it's okay for NY fans to express their ennui but not the other way around. 

I remember Derek Jeter being booed. 

I remember fans treating Eli Manning as a bum, irregardless of two Super Bowl wins, let alone Phil Simms...

I remember the back page of the NY POST, when Ewing was traded: GOOD RIDDANCE. 

Is Julius Randle beyond reproach? 

He is most DEF...not. 

Do I have issues with his faux pas? 

I do. 

Are we surprised that the manner in which he has been adjudged rubbed him the wrong way? 

PuhLEEEEESE. 

People making a big deal about his response?

The thumbs down? 

PuhLEEEEESE. 

To me, the manner in which he played in the third quarter best articulates his response. 

DribbleDribbleDribble?

No

EL TORO. 

Knicks fans have large balls but short memories. 

Am I the only one who remembers LARRY JOHNSON's love/hate relationship with Knicks fans? 

We traded Mase for him, and his back woes robbed him of the level of dominance he enjoyed as a Hornet. 

He was treated very rudely. 

Wish I could remember the specific game, but there was a performance in which he elevated his  performance to a dramatic level, and the fans responded with great enthusiasm. 

LJ's RESPONSE was, to my memory, EPIC. 

He comported himself in the manner of a little boy, his arms crossed on his chest, his lower lip thrust out, everything in his posture and coutennance betokening a pouting child. 

Oh, NOW you LOVE ME? 

Well.  Huumph. 

I'm not sure I'm ready to make up.

HA.   
Title: Burks Law
Post by: chipstern on January 07, 2022, 05:28:50 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 07, 2022, 04:10:42 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 07, 2022, 01:35:57 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 07, 2022, 10:42:06 AM
Quote from: Kam on January 07, 2022, 09:51:53 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 07, 2022, 03:22:35 AM
As for Burks, he's ...

Burks makes weird decisions.  Remember earlier in the season (maybe even the first boston game) a play he had to inbound the ball late in the 4th, couldn't find anyone at first, seemed to panic a little and nearly threw the ball away.  I love Burks the shooter.  When he is asked to make plays or stop plays from happening he is not as loved.

Take what he is.  Hope for spurts of brilliance, steadiness otherwise. Which is what you are getting.

Can be a rotation guy on a contender,  yes, no doubt.

Yeah.  Bench player. 

Alec Burks is shooting just 33 percent overall and from deep as a starter
Alec Burks is shooting 45 percent overall and 47 percent from long range off the bench.

Love Burks. Singlehandedly won us a number of games last year. And has been critical in several wins this year.

Seems much better coming off the bench. But I just attribute that to the mix, not to some weird psychology about starting. If there's chemistry with Burks and Julius, I haven't seen it.

(I don't think Fournier and Barrett seem to work well together either)

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51i94ZV5ZOL.jpg)

Would help to have a top tier POINT GUARD. 

Burks coming off the bench in a sixth man role with the second unit?

RIGHT ON. 

Burks starting as a PG? 

MISCAST. 

PS: Still, while his individual stats and such from last night do not speak highly of him as a starter, let alone a point guard, the emergence, even if only for one night--or the sight of those accursed GREEN motherfuckers--of FOURNIER as a sniper and RANDLE as a bully boy, seems to suggest a certain chemistry Burks engendered. 
Title: The Dawg's kitty
Post by: carlos123 on January 07, 2022, 05:33:03 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on January 07, 2022, 01:53:29 PM
Unconditional love reserved for my little lesterdawgs and my little lestercat!

AKA POSITIVE PUSSY #3
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLVmB6YBxJJCw5pIly_LFE_IH7cEq9Thu0aO8_HGWBw1NNOZI-691I9iwGrktNJBitGNd6qQq21T4yf98U8Sf8Ox9M1Tzo59u58q-wbC581MwiLCh1sK8xShirhzhJLcnBLlGuhsoCmLlgybnNucz9PQ=w595-h757-no?authuser=0)
Title: BoZ's names
Post by: carlos123 on January 07, 2022, 05:40:48 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 07, 2022, 10:38:06 AM
I didn't understand why BOS mostly guarded FourEva with shrimpy Schroder.

BoZ used to have BoZ names for most of Knicks players, but this season only one that I am aware of.

As a sample, just look at this from a few years back ...
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLWG0RMu4CuSY7GSdrCTMIPslVgVIN-qP8u5-xjv3iFLuxTHW7JrPYXWtl1I3qhqiKC_7b1FnCA5UUVb2tVrUXC0b_2D8OYhgn7xb0MZMLqaC8GAbDAoXnqnS53wl0ButnppxSnold8HS51vrPjKhgNB=w727-h757-no?authuser=0)

Is he getting OLD?
Title: Ntilikina
Post by: carlos123 on January 07, 2022, 11:12:54 PM
Hey, our Frank, ok actually the Dallas Knicks Frank, had a decent showing today.

3 rebounds, 4 assists and 7 points in 16 minutes.

Is he going to become a star for another team, as many other youths before him?
Title: Re: Ntilikina
Post by: chipstern on January 08, 2022, 12:52:09 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 07, 2022, 11:12:54 PM
Hey, our Frank, ok actually the Dallas Knicks Frank, had a decent showing today.

3 rebounds, 4 assists and 7 points in 16 minutes.

Is he going to become a star for another team, as many other youths before him?

Uh...NO

Frank is a career role player. 

Which of the youths we let slide became STARS?

Trevor Ariza?

Channing Frye? 

David Lee? 

Timmy Hardaway has played well for the Mavs.  Not sure he is a star.  Was averaging 19.1 ppg for the Knicks when we traded him.

15.5 15.8. 16.6 14.6 since. 

Porzingis? 

22.7 6.6 1.2 when we traded him. 

20.1, 20.4, 20.6 since. 

Played well when healthy.  Scoring and FT shooting,  boarding and assists up.  Blocked shots down. 

A star?  He's a solid pro. 

Missing anyone? 

Eddie Curry? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 08, 2022, 11:27:24 AM
Minus the Melo deal Knicks could have been building with Jamal Murray Zach Levine and or Domatis Sabonis
Title: Re: Ntilikina
Post by: carlos123 on January 08, 2022, 06:07:52 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 08, 2022, 12:52:09 AM
Porzingis? 

22.7 6.6 1.2 when we traded him. 

20.1, 20.4, 20.6 since. 

Played well when healthy.  Scoring and FT shooting,  boarding and assists up.  Blocked shots down. 

A star?  He's a solid pro. 

Missing anyone? 

Eddie Curry?

(Porzingis) "KP tosses salads in Dallas" - The Great Kamster.

OTOH ...
... https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1934735-where-did-all-the-ny-knicks-draft-picks-go (https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1934735-where-did-all-the-ny-knicks-draft-picks-go)

(https://media.bleacherreport.com/w_800,h_533,c_fill/br-img-article/001/331/516/Preview_crop_exact.jpg)
Greatest trade of all time 🤪

(https://media.bleacherreport.com/w_800,h_533,c_fill/br-img-article/001/331/518/Preview_crop_exact.jpg)
Greatest bust of all time 🤣

"- Rest in peace, Ashley Babbitt 1/6/21 -" Chamaco Cartero The Moron.

"- Rest in peace, Chamaco's Intelligence. It never existed anyway -" Me
Title: Disaster
Post by: carlos123 on January 08, 2022, 10:08:20 PM
Don't know what else to say about this game.

RJB with the most points and the worst +/-, only because he played more minutes than anybody, 43.
Toppin played just 9 minutes. WTF, it's not like Randle was killing it.

Disaster from top to bottom.

"- Rest in peace, Ashley Babbitt 1/6/21 -" Chamaco Cartero The Moron.

"- Rest in peace, Chamaco's Intelligence. It never existed anyway -" Me
Title: Re: Disaster
Post by: lesterluv on January 08, 2022, 10:24:24 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 08, 2022, 10:08:20 PM
Don't know what else to say about this game.

lol, a true wtf. Yes, why is Julius still on the floor after sucking ass to a spectacular degree when we're down by 23 with three minutes left? I figured maybe Thibs was trying to punish him. But that would be giving Thibs too much credit. Maybe Thibs was unwilling to put Toppin in the game because he has no clue what to do with OBI beside park him at the three point line.

A DISASTER INDEED.


*** that "apology" to the fans was def written by PR because JR clearly wanted to say F U to Knicks fans one more time!
Title: Ashlee..I miin Ashey..I meen Ashly..doing good from da grave tho
Post by: lesterluv on January 08, 2022, 10:32:56 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E9E3vzzVUAUa9g5.jpg)


*** Mike Byrd said, "Bitch, you ain't getting into this house." BAM!
Title: AssLee AshLey
Post by: chipstern on January 09, 2022, 04:23:27 PM
Was Kiid really consecrating her memory? 

WOW

She precipitated her own end, by advancing violence. 

We're not debating politics here. 

If you knew anything about Ashley--AND WHY WOULD THAT MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE--you would know that she was a violent, unbalanced, borderline PSYCHOTIC individual. 

A martyr? 

A WACKAMOLE.

She tormented and menaced her husband's ex-wife to the tune of not one but TWO COURT ORDERS OF PROTECTION.

And how did she accomplish this?

While they were both out and about in their automobiles, this Martyred Heroine attempted to run her husband's ex off the road.  HELLO.

When she copped a similar attitude in storming a barricaded door, manned by armed men seeking to protect congressman from a roiling, frothing mob, as she attempted to smash through a glass door, she caught a bullet. 

To portray this disgusting humanoid as a martyr is a slap in the face to all those who served and sacrificed on behalf of the citizens of the United States. 

Ashley aligned herself with hate and ignorance, at the head of a mindless mob, whipped into a frenzy by an embittered loser promulgating an absurd conspiritorial narrative, and advocating untrammeled violence. 

Hang Mike Pence?

Yeah, a heroic martyr. 

May she rot in hell. 
Title: Meanwhile, Back On Planet Earth
Post by: chipstern on January 09, 2022, 04:55:42 PM
That was an ugly, ugly loss. 

One hardly knows where to begin. 

Julius's Jeckyl & Hyde manifestations baffle me. 

After an exemplary game at the Garden, where he eschewed settling for long jumpers with aggressive drives to the hoop, well....

RJ, IQ and Grimes were 9-18 from trey. 

Randle and Burks were a combined 2-12. 

Julius did not get to the free throw line a single time, and despite 12 boards and 6 assists, 6 turnovers. 

Worse, the Knicks were 6-15 from the FT line, while the Celtics were 15-17.  UNACCEPTABLE. 

PS: I love Obi, but the notion that somehow he is ready to supplant Julius, or that Thibs has gelded him, is dubious.  Two things.  ONE: Without both ROSE and WALKER, the kind of back cuts and P&R opportunities an effective PG can precipitate with an athelete like Obi are pretty much negated.  TWO: Obi has yet to display a consistent, effective, NBA grade outside shooting game on par with his college heroics, either in the form of a midrange stop and pop off of the dribble, or from three point range, where he has been a horrific 12-58.  EVERY TIME OBI HITS A JUMPER, AN ANGEL GETS HIS WINGS. 

PPS: Too bad we didn't get to see if Fournier was down for two effective games in a row.  The ripple effect of his absence was all too obvious, as the cutting lanes which might otherwise have been available to Randle and Burks with someone offering the threat of an outside game, were shut down, and they were forced to SETTLE FOR CONTESTED JUMPERS, rather than PRECIPITATE OFFENSE with drives to the hoop. 

PPPS: Of course, with drives to the hoop, it doenst hurt to hit your damn free throws. 

OH WELL....  San Antonio, Dallas, Atlanta and Charlotte beckon.  Things could get quite ugly in the forseeable future. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 09, 2022, 07:41:18 PM
Not having a fresh wing body up to checking Richardson while our top two available wings were trying to keep pace with Tatum and Brown wound up being the clincher.

The Celtics dove and curled when their guys had it in the post. Our guys pretty much stood around.
Title: MOTION & BALL MOVEMENT
Post by: chipstern on January 09, 2022, 08:30:41 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 09, 2022, 07:41:18 PM
Not having a fresh wing body up to checking Richardson while our top two available wings were trying to keep pace with Tatum and Brown wound up being the clincher.

The Celtics dove and curled when their guys had it in the post. Our guys pretty much stood around.

Yup

Thibs is all about "Rim Reads"

And Kick Outs. 

One thing I really loved about Rose was how he ran the baseline back door with Obi. 

Our talent level? 

I guess we are not really up to the cuts and motion of top tier teams such as GS and Phoenix.  Of course they have some pretty good PGs. 

Oh well. 
Title: Re: Meanwhile, Back On Planet Earth
Post by: lesterluv on January 09, 2022, 09:03:09 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 09, 2022, 04:55:42 PM

PS: I love Obi, but the notion that somehow he is ready to supplant Julius, or that Thibs has gelded him, is dubious.  Two things.  ONE: Without both ROSE and WALKER, the kind of back cuts and P&R opportunities an effective PG can precipitate with an athelete like Obi are pretty much negated.  TWO: Obi has yet to display a consistent, effective, NBA grade outside shooting game on par with his college heroics, either in the form of a midrange stop and pop off of the dribble, or from three point range, where he has been a horrific 12-58.  EVERY TIME OBI HITS A JUMPER, AN ANGEL GETS HIS WINGS. 


Not saying it's supplant Julius time by any means...but when our asses are already kicked, maybe, just maybe, can we find a little time for Obi to work on this kind of thing..

https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?ContextMeasure=FGM&EndPeriod=0&EndRange=28800&GameID=0022100545&PlayerID=1630167&RangeType=0&Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&StartPeriod=0&StartRange=0&TeamID=1610612752&flag=3&sct=plot&section=game&CF=SHOT_DISTANCE*E*6 (https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?ContextMeasure=FGM&EndPeriod=0&EndRange=28800&GameID=0022100545&PlayerID=1630167&RangeType=0&Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&StartPeriod=0&StartRange=0&TeamID=1610612752&flag=3&sct=plot&section=game&CF=SHOT_DISTANCE*E*6)

or that kind of thing

https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?ContextMeasure=FGM&EndPeriod=0&EndRange=28800&GameID=0022100545&PlayerID=1630167&RangeType=0&Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&StartPeriod=0&StartRange=0&TeamID=1610612752&flag=3&sct=plot&section=game&CF=SHOT_DISTANCE*E*16 (https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?ContextMeasure=FGM&EndPeriod=0&EndRange=28800&GameID=0022100545&PlayerID=1630167&RangeType=0&Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&StartPeriod=0&StartRange=0&TeamID=1610612752&flag=3&sct=plot&section=game&CF=SHOT_DISTANCE*E*16)

I'd rather see some of that than another 58 three point attempts...or another possession where Quick dribbles the ball around for 18 seconds..and don't need any fancy PG'ing for the aforedelivered video samples.

I mean f'ck...RJ has had three seasons of green card to work on his arsenal despite the fact that he still misses 15 shots a night half the time..let's give Obi some time and some damn rope, particularly whenever Julius' apparently chronic constipation is acting up...32 minutes, say, would be more than enough there.


*** this kid Toppin has fantastic hands and a lovely touch..let's work with him on the where and how
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 09, 2022, 09:32:25 PM
Agreed.

This is where our stunted offensive scheme fucks the future.

Obi has improved since last season, but he's not going to thrive when his role is so constricted.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 09, 2022, 09:35:25 PM
Really the offense is so goddamn boring. At least the 2nd team tends to bring pace to the floor.

Last year wasn't a mirage, but we hit the ceiling with our offensive approach. It's outdated.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 09, 2022, 09:39:56 PM
Speaking of players we traded who never amounted to much elsewhere.

Will Barrett be added to that list? Will he be a star once we trade him away? A starter?

I've got no idea. But I'm skeptical.

Yes, he's just 21. But his game hasn't seemed to grown since last season. Is that about him? Or how he's used?
Title: Re: Meanwhile, Back On Planet Earth
Post by: chipstern on January 09, 2022, 10:43:35 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on January 09, 2022, 09:03:09 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 09, 2022, 04:55:42 PM

PS: I love Obi, but the notion that somehow he is ready to supplant Julius, or that Thibs has gelded him, is dubious.  Two things.  ONE: Without both ROSE and WALKER, the kind of back cuts and P&R opportunities an effective PG can precipitate with an athelete like Obi are pretty much negated.  TWO: Obi has yet to display a consistent, effective, NBA grade outside shooting game on par with his college heroics, either in the form of a midrange stop and pop off of the dribble, or from three point range, where he has been a horrific 12-58.  EVERY TIME OBI HITS A JUMPER, AN ANGEL GETS HIS WINGS. 


Not saying it's supplant Julius time by any means...but when our asses are already kicked, maybe, just maybe, can we find a little time for Obi to work on this kind of thing..

https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?ContextMeasure=FGM&EndPeriod=0&EndRange=28800&GameID=0022100545&PlayerID=1630167&RangeType=0&Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&StartPeriod=0&StartRange=0&TeamID=1610612752&flag=3&sct=plot&section=game&CF=SHOT_DISTANCE*E*6 (https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?ContextMeasure=FGM&EndPeriod=0&EndRange=28800&GameID=0022100545&PlayerID=1630167&RangeType=0&Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&StartPeriod=0&StartRange=0&TeamID=1610612752&flag=3&sct=plot&section=game&CF=SHOT_DISTANCE*E*6)

or that kind of thing

https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?ContextMeasure=FGM&EndPeriod=0&EndRange=28800&GameID=0022100545&PlayerID=1630167&RangeType=0&Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&StartPeriod=0&StartRange=0&TeamID=1610612752&flag=3&sct=plot&section=game&CF=SHOT_DISTANCE*E*16 (https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?ContextMeasure=FGM&EndPeriod=0&EndRange=28800&GameID=0022100545&PlayerID=1630167&RangeType=0&Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&StartPeriod=0&StartRange=0&TeamID=1610612752&flag=3&sct=plot&section=game&CF=SHOT_DISTANCE*E*16)

I'd rather see some of that than another 58 three point attempts...or another possession where Quick dribbles the ball around for 18 seconds..and don't need any fancy PG'ing for the aforedelivered video samples.

I mean f'ck...RJ has had three seasons of green card to work on his arsenal despite the fact that he still misses 15 shots a night half the time..let's give Obi some time and some damn rope, particularly whenever Julius' apparently chronic constipation is acting up...32 minutes, say, would be more than enough there.


*** this kid Toppin has fantastic hands and a lovely touch..let's work with him on the where and how

Agree
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 09, 2022, 10:47:07 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 09, 2022, 09:35:25 PM
Really the offense is so goddamn boring. At least the 2nd team tends to bring pace to the floor.

Last year wasn't a mirage, but we hit the ceiling with our offensive approach. It's outdated.

Last year our PGs were Elfrid and Derrick. 

Lately it's been Burks & Quickley. 

I have a vision of Dawg in chains, puckering up. 

"Okay, Elfrid, but only one, 'ya bum." 
Title: Query? Why NOT?
Post by: chipstern on January 09, 2022, 10:51:27 PM
Wouldn't Rajon Rondo have made a world of sense in a Knick uniform? 
Title: Re: Query? Why NOT?
Post by: carlos123 on January 09, 2022, 11:33:42 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 09, 2022, 10:51:27 PM
Wouldn't Rajon Rondo have made a world of sense in a Knick uniform?

Sure, and how about Patty Mills? He is doing a damn good job for the fucking Nyets. Also, he is 33, but tough as nails and durable. One could think he is 25. I do not know how Pops let him leave SanAn.
Title: Warriors
Post by: carlos123 on January 09, 2022, 11:44:31 PM
What happened to Draymond? He played a grand total of 7 seconds.

OTOH, Klay returned. 17 points in 20 minutes, not too shabby after a 2-year absence.

"- Rest in peace, Ashley Babbitt 1/6/21 -" Chamaco Cartero The Moron.
(Chamaco, you may also want to commemorate 4/30/45 if you know what that date is)
"- Rest in peace, Chamaco's Intelligence. It never existed anyway -" Me
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 10, 2022, 08:55:11 AM
12.1 PER for Mills, who clearly preferred Brooklyn


It will be interesting to see if he holds up with the minutes played
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 10, 2022, 09:35:29 AM
NYK knew that Rose and Kemba would likely miss time.
We have two young PG's in IQ and McBride.
I'd play them.  Tell IQ to look to set guys up and run the team more than look for his own shot.
With Julius playing Point-PF to assist IQ.  Starting PG reps would help IQ expand his game.
Burks at PG is useless in so many ways.  I'd rather use the missed time to develop the yute.  Looking a few years down the road rather than caring about the 8th or 9th seed this year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 10, 2022, 11:47:40 AM
 Knicks will surely move for a veteran PG soon.  The possibility of Rose and Walker both missing a playoff series is just too great.  And winning a series (and beyond)  is the goal.  not just making the East Ten
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 10, 2022, 11:53:37 AM
With Fournier out yesterday was a made for NY draft kings LOCK.  Should've bet the Celtics.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 10, 2022, 11:59:48 AM
I don't like the offense running thru Randle.  As elephant said, that offense has a ceiling.  Team needs a true PG.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 10, 2022, 12:02:41 PM
Would you then have Randle in the low post?  With Mitch out high?  Old school hoops?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 10, 2022, 12:13:23 PM
More  times than not the offense does NOT start with  Julius.  I would put it  at 65/35 that  Randle doesnt touch the ball first or second in the possession.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 10, 2022, 01:44:07 PM
Sadly there is no "first touch" or "second touch" in NBA advanced stats.

There is simply front court touches, the number of times a player touches and possesses the ball on the offensive half of the court per game.

Julius is 4th behind Jokic, Embid, KAT. 48 per game. The eyes don't deceive.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 10, 2022, 03:30:56 PM
At least Randle rarely brings the ball upcourt anymore.  That was painful his 1st year, with remnants of that last season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 10, 2022, 09:52:42 PM
Damn. That's one monster game from Barrett.
Title: Hmmmm
Post by: chipstern on January 10, 2022, 09:58:45 PM
That was interesting. 

20-21

SAME AS THIS POINT LAST YEAR.

Defense starting to ascend. 

IQ looking like things are beginning to make sense to him. 

12-4-6

+17

Julius 1-7 with 3 TOs. 

But DRAWING THEM DOUBLES and kicking out. 

However...seemed conscious, self-conscious if you will, about firing up Fournier [18-5-2-2] and RJ [31-3-4] and Burks [16-4-2-2]

Just behind IQ with a +16, 12 boards, 3 assists and block. 

Mitchell

13-11 with 4 blocks

Grimes

7-1 with SIX ASSISTS

Only the Spurs, but a good coherent, team effort.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 10, 2022, 10:01:30 PM
Wait  Knicks won with Burks starting?
Title: Explain please
Post by: carlos123 on January 10, 2022, 10:06:17 PM
Can anyone explain how this team shoots nothing but bricks one game, and the next one they are raining threes?

I loved that rain though 😁

"- Rest in peace, Ashley Babbitt 1/6/21 -" Chamaaco Cartero The Moron.
(Chamaco, you may also want to commemorate 4/30/45 if you know what that date is)
"- Rest in peace, Chamaco's Intelligence. It never existed anyway -" Me
Title: sometimes we play dumb, sometimes we play...
Post by: lesterluv on January 10, 2022, 11:51:23 PM
because tonight they played nice, smart basketball, good stuff, maybe our smartest of the year
giving the ball to the hot shooters..finding folks in rhythm, skip the stupid stuff
respect to Randle for doing the dirty work without apparent complaint and with focus, maybe we're getting somewhere
(after the first three plays of the game, when he had to do his bossman thing, two of which were turnovers)

* (kinda the same w/Quick who came off the bench doing his best Allonzo Trier impression but then moved forward to better things)
**yes, best game we've seen RJ play for sure
*** and right in the KNICK OF TIME because my Ja Morant envy was starting to soar off the chart after last night's WONDERS of the WORLD HIGHLIGHTS
****really the only bad part, the incredible misuse and abuse of Obi Toppin continues.....
Title: Nyets Portland
Post by: carlos123 on January 11, 2022, 01:08:27 AM
Hey, Blazers beat the Hardenless Nyets. Does Portland play better without Lillard and McCollum?

Go figure!

PS. Les, thanks for your explanation. You are a good doggie! 🐶
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 11, 2022, 12:05:37 PM
Blazers play better at HOME

Happy to help you figure it out.

40 minutes for Kyrie (22 8 4)

Net now 14 - 4 on the road the  mark of a title team
Title: More questions
Post by: carlos123 on January 11, 2022, 02:22:26 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on January 11, 2022, 12:05:37 PM
Blazers play better at HOME

Happy to help you figure it out.

40 minutes for Kyrie (22 8 4)

Net now 14 - 4 on the road the  mark of a title team

Chamaco, your answer is pretty much unrelated to my question, but thanks for trying anyway.

Now, I have more questions for you:

1- Did you insert the spam post just after your "answer"?

After all, they sell "generic hydroxychloroquine canadian online pharmacy"

NOW READ THIS:

BROOKLYN (WABC) -- Police are searching for the man behind a racist attack on a subway train in Brooklyn.

Investigators say the 14-year-old victim was on board a northbound 4 train with his 11-year-old brother and mother on Monday at 7:15 a.m.

They were heading into the Atlantic Avenue subway station.

That's when the suspect sat next to the teen's mother and made anti-Mexican statements.

He said, "I do not want Mexicans near me. I do not like Mexicans".

The man then stood up and bumped into the victim and the victim was apologetic.

The man then punched the teen in the face and fled. The teen suffered a cut to his nose.

2- Were you the thug who dont like Mexicans?

3- If not, was he a friend of yours?

Here is a photo, though it is unclear if this is the suspect

(https://pix11.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/25/2022/01/Suspect-in-Brooklyn-subway-attack.png?w=876&h=493&crop=1)

and here is a very clear picture of Chamaco, for comparison

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLWinbC-wbY9Tbfw9_yRvBXj-dN30vUTGj2DxZIFw7YV916uz1J7JesPT2FKQPXymW_gyC8DteIzISKTnMVGvwUF1p9VXHGZfFtodTRdvwzXUeEi_3tRGWDhzbMLXZZe0jz3JYRuTwdW7W-j1SWBvZE6=w368-h570-no?authuser=0)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 12, 2022, 05:54:16 AM
Terrific 2nd half by RJB.
I said the other week that RJB is our best 2-way player and kiid scoffed.
But it's not really close.
I'm not even sure who is 2nd.
Rose?  Mitch??  Grimes??   Burks? ? ?

Was weird how uninvolved/not looking to shoot Randle was.
He did set some good screens.
IQ and Grimes help up the intensity.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 12, 2022, 05:58:23 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 12, 2022, 05:54:16 AM
Terrific 2nd half by RJB.
I said the other week that RJB is our best 2-way player and kiid scoffed.
But it's not really close.
I'm not even sure who is 2nd.
Rose?  Mitch??  Grimes??   Burks? ? ?

Was weird how uninvolved/not looking to shoot Randle was.
He did set some good screens.
IQ and Grimes help up the intensity.

Randle was a +16

He drew doubles, as per usual, and created space for RJ, Burks, IQ to operate. 

His shot wasn't falling [1-7] and he didn't force it. 



Title: So our BEST two-way player is 16th on the team in steals per 36?
Post by: lesterluv on January 12, 2022, 09:33:41 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 12, 2022, 05:54:16 AM
Terrific 2nd half by RJB.
I said the other week that RJB is our best 2-way player and kiid scoffed.
But it's not really close.
I'm not even sure who is 2nd.
Rose?  Mitch??  Grimes??   Burks? ? ?

lol, I scoffed cause it wasn't even close to true.

RJB .. first handful of games excepted...up until the last couple..has had a pretty sad season. Beyond uninspiring.
A net-negative losing-impact player. Not anybody's best-two way. Or even one-way, his D was def not "all that" or even "just that." ****

Kiid's "do you trade him while he still has some good value" question, was totally legit.

Thankfully, he's finally showing signs of achieving what we hope he's capable of. Seeing his teammates and making the right play. Hitting the three. Unleashing a right hand and more varied attack. Not barrelling like a clown into three players underneath the hoop and throwing up junk. Seeing the game, Consistency

He had a wonderful game. Two recent ones. Let's hope it turns into the start of a wonderful second half of the season, and career, lol...


*** and yes, minus the first three minutes ... Randle had a BIG impact on our win ... a worker bee after an ugly-ass ball dominating turnover creating start..didn't look too happy about it...but as long as he does it!


**** so I based my RJ defensive assessment purely on eyetestTM, but if you want to go look at defensive stats it isn't just ugly it is butt-uggly, steals, 9th on team, AND per 36 MIN, 16th on the team, rofl! blocks 8 OR per 36, 10th! want to go to defensive rating, advance stats DBPM, i'm telling you now...DON'T GO THERE, DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING THERE

***** so I based my RJ offensive assessment purely on eyetestTM, but if you want to go look at advanced offensive stats or composite stats.....IT AIN'T JUST BAD...ITS A HORROR FILM
Title: Speaking of Scoff...Normal as Fuk!
Post by: lesterluv on January 12, 2022, 09:39:45 AM
In the northwestern city of Xian, hospital employees refused to admit a man suffering from chest pains because he lived in a medium-risk district. He died of a heart attack.

They informed a woman who was eight months pregnant and bleeding that her Covid test wasnt valid. She lost her baby.

Two community security guards told a young man they didnt care that he had nothing to eat after catching him out during the lockdown. They beat him up...

For the officials, virus control comes first.... lives, well-being and dignity come much later.

The government has the help of a vast army of community workers who carry out the policy with zeal and hordes of online nationalists who attack anyone raising grievances or concerns....

rofl...

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/12/business/china-zero-covid-policy-xian.html?smid=em-share (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/12/business/china-zero-covid-policy-xian.html?smid=em-share)
Title: Normal as Fuk! Kinda funny tho'
Post by: lesterluv on January 12, 2022, 09:51:35 AM
Chinese woman stuck in blind date's house after city lockdown

https://sg.news.yahoo.com/chinese-woman-stuck-blind-dates-102103267.html (https://sg.news.yahoo.com/chinese-woman-stuck-blind-dates-102103267.html)

"Besides the fact that he's as mute as a wooden mannequin, everything else (about him) is pretty good," Wang told The Paper. "Despite his food being mediocre, he's still willing to cook, which I think is great."
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 12, 2022, 11:44:17 AM
I said the other week that RJB is our best 2-way player and kiid scoffed.


Stop.  Dont embarrass yourself.
Title: This one for BoZ
Post by: carlos123 on January 12, 2022, 02:42:28 PM
I found a most beautiful picture of Trumptin the Pumpkin:

(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/eYKFBpXcHEtq2LwL5jCZhA--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTEyNDI7aD04Mjc-/https://s.yimg.com/uu/api/res/1.2/aGFlU0E8YIauGwWBopGKrw--~B/aD0xNDQ4O3c9MjE3NDthcHBpZD15dGFjaHlvbg--/https://media.zenfs.com/en/aol_yahoo_news_184/e7320474f27cc7f70516b279f0c7caaa)

I thought I'd post it here to give BoZizzley a chance to tell me to go to the politics forum 🤪

Les, if I were in China, he would report me for the NORMAL process of re-education.
Title: Rumor Mill
Post by: chipstern on January 12, 2022, 03:56:00 PM
Alleged interest in Cam Reddish.

Berman in today's POST points out that Jalen Brunson will be an unrestricted FA this summer, and recollects about the connections between the Burnson family and both Leon Rose and Thibs. 

Odd that Dallas has not re-inked Brunson. 

Played 25 minutes a game last season, and 30 minutes in 2021-22.

Assists are UP, but Three-Point Shooting is DOWN significantly.

From .405 to .336 [81-200 to 41-122]

Playing the Knicks always helps boost three point shooting percentages. 

Watch out for Brunson AND Bullock tonight. 

Not exactly sure how Knicks would enetertain free agents this summer, with commitments to Rose, Burks, Noel and Gibson. 

Kemba will be owed 9.165

Noel's NOAH's 6.4 million stretch finally comes off the books. 

Likely Knox's 5.8 million comes off as well [qualfiying offer would be 7.9] 

So that's 12 million there. 

Some decisions to be made on Mitchell Robinson. 

PS: Ryan Arcidiacono remains out for tonight's game. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 12, 2022, 04:42:26 PM
Btwkm it's comparative.  Who's a better 2-way player on the Knix?
Let's see anyone's Top 3.

As for RJB, do teams ever put him in a PnR?
Earlier in the season, when Kemba and FourEva were starting, there were 2 or 3 games in a row where teams put a main scorer in the corner and let the rest of the players go 4 on 4 v. the weaker Knick defenders.  Sacrificing a scorer to remove our best defender.  Last year, RJB was terrific on closeouts and rotations, especially 1st half of the season, when the Knix played a different style of defense and had better defenders.  One of the reasons opponents shot a very low % on 3's.  Overall, that O for D swap hasn't exactly panned out.  Though it hasn't helped to have Mitch & Noel missing games.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 12, 2022, 05:06:13 PM
I can not think of a single possession over recent games where I thought that what would have helped in any way was Nerlins Noel.

It is Noah not Noel coming of the books, btw.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 12, 2022, 05:31:33 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 12, 2022, 05:06:13 PM
I can not think of a single possession over recent games where I thought that what would have helped in any way was Nerlins Noel.

It is Noah not Noel coming of the books, btw.

Nice catch.

Betcha you wish Nerlens was coming off the books as oppossed to off the bench. 

He was a big factor last year.  Cannot seem to remain ambulatory 2021-22. 
Title: Ronnie Spector Has Caught A Cab...
Post by: chipstern on January 12, 2022, 05:32:44 PM
(https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/220112171822-02-ronnie-spector-file-1963-large-169.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 12, 2022, 06:18:04 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 10, 2022, 12:13:23 PM
More  times than not the offense does NOT start with  Julius.  I would put it  at 65/35 that  Randle doesnt touch the ball first or second in the possession.

He has an awful assist to turnover ratio.   When he dribbles more than twice its a turnover and he is not a quick decision-maker.  Hallmarks of a guy who can finish possessions rather than start them.  I don't want him at the three point line unless he is in the corner or a wing.   Featuring Randle at the top of the key early in the shot clock is asking to be disappointed.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 12, 2022, 06:27:29 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on January 10, 2022, 01:44:07 PM
Sadly there is no "first touch" or "second touch" in NBA advanced stats.

There is simply front court touches, the number of times a player touches and possesses the ball on the offensive half of the court per game.

Julius is 4th behind Jokic, Embid, KAT. 48 per game. The eyes don't deceive.

Another good stat is percentage of shots assisted.   Julius is assisted on just 47 percent of his shots (placing hm in the 91st percentile of bigs league-wide) whereas Obi is assisted on 80 percent of his looks (14th percentile).    This tells us Obi isn't the shot creator than Julius is but also tells us that Julius is doing a lot of creating.   Many touches combined with playmaking to the tune of a 1.4 asst-turnover ratio.  So the team is suffering and Randle is suffering because we have nobody to take the ball out of his hands and give it to him in scoring position.  The problem is Randle has so far shown little interest in changing his style.  We see it here and there. 
Title: Re: Ronnie Spector Has Caught A Cab...
Post by: carlos123 on January 12, 2022, 06:50:29 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 12, 2022, 05:32:44 PM
(https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/220112171822-02-ronnie-spector-file-1963-large-169.jpg)

Rest in peace, baby

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrVbawRPO7I (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrVbawRPO7I)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: josh on January 12, 2022, 06:53:57 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 12, 2022, 05:06:13 PM
I can not think of a single possession over recent games where I thought that what would have helped in any way was Nerlins Noel.

It is Noah not Noel coming of the books, btw.

The coming of the books...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 12, 2022, 07:16:53 PM
Odd that Dallas has not re-inked Brunson.


How?  He makes  peanuts.  No available cash for next season yet.

Dallas could still make enough available to afford  him but you cant just give it to him now.  Rules do not allow for this.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 12, 2022, 07:28:40 PM
Helping Chip  out with payroll

113 mil on 12 players

And Mitch needs a deal on top of that.

Trade deadline should see a little shift as we add/subtract

 3 POINT DOG NOW TO THE LUKAS.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 12, 2022, 07:34:32 PM
Couple of big games in the East tonight

Hornets v Sixers
Nets v Bulls (late 10:05 start ESPN)

Knicks on national feed again with ESPN early game - always refreshing to hear a call other than NYK homies (SVG the other night on TNT a good example)

 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 12, 2022, 08:57:20 PM
Nice tidy first half for Burks.

2 strong games after a 3 game 8-34 mess
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 12, 2022, 10:02:39 PM
RJB
32 Pts and held Luka to 2-8 FG ...
Title: Maybe I was wrong
Post by: carlos123 on January 12, 2022, 10:04:22 PM
Great game, and that is two in a row.
Maybe I was wrong about Thibs, and he has one or two more seasons left in him.
I hope so, and these two games were not a mirage.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 12, 2022, 10:08:46 PM
Hitting stride with this lineup. 7 and 3 since Christmas.

Everyone did work toninght.

I did not even mind seeing Noel that much.
Title: Coach Fac
Post by: carlos123 on January 12, 2022, 11:05:38 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 12, 2022, 10:08:46 PM
Hitting stride with this lineup. 7 and 3 since Christmas.

Everyone did work toninght.

I did not even mind seeing Noel that much.

Despite being newly open minded about keeping Thibs, I am still interested in a possible Coach Fac.

So, Fac, what would you do if you were coaching the Knicks, so as not to play Noel?

1- Play Mitch for 48 minutes.
2- Play Taj instead of Noel, even if he needs a rest.
3- Play Sims as C instead of Noel, even tough he is a PF.
4- Play without a C for a while.
5- Other. If so, what?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 12, 2022, 11:26:34 PM
I would give Sims a look behind Mitch and if it looked off, I would quickly go to a vet. If Sims holds his own or better, let it ride. I think Jericho finally missed a shot tonight.

I also like the Obi and Randle frontcourt some.

Obi and Noel are actually somewhat interesting in that they are similarly sized and both really good at covering ground. If there is no bully on the other second unit, it may be worth a longer look.

I hope this game is a harbinger of the perimeter guys finding their way into sustainable roles and we can keep this level of play going.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 12, 2022, 11:33:13 PM
Cavs beat Jazz by 20 IN UTAH

Trip doub for Garland.

I am sure Jazz were not near whole, but still.....

Nets-Bulls as advertised
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 13, 2022, 12:44:36 AM
For the 1st half.  Bulls fell apart 3Q.  Weak D all game.
Kessler Edwards reminds me of  ... Grimes.|
I never heard of Dayron Sharpe who started and went for 20 & 7 in 22 mins before fouling out.  20 year old Big.

Lakes lost to SacKings.
3 mins left down 8, Kings leave Westbrook unguarded so he can miss an open 3.
Down 4, 1:10 left Westbrook calls his own number and clanks another 3.
Basically game over on that miss.
Title: You are hired
Post by: carlos123 on January 13, 2022, 01:15:24 AM
Quote from: Fac on January 12, 2022, 11:26:34 PM
I would give Sims a look behind Mitch and if it looked off, I would quickly go to a vet. If Sims holds his own or better, let it ride. I think Jericho finally missed a shot tonight.

I also like the Obi and Randle frontcourt some.

Obi and Noel are actually somewhat interesting in that they are similarly sized and both really good at covering ground. If there is no bully on the other second unit, it may be worth a longer look.

I hope this game is a harbinger of the perimeter guys finding their way into sustainable roles and we can keep this level of play going.

That is what I would tell you if I had any say on Knicks affairs, which I do not.
I would also ask you to work as an assistant for a while.

On an different subject, I would say BoZizzley really, really does not like Russell Westbrook.
What did Russ do to deserve that disdain?
Title: 21-21
Post by: chipstern on January 13, 2022, 08:36:49 AM
Finally, a buzzer to buzzer ass kicking, defending the Garden Floor. 

Perhaps [PERHAPS] my earlier assessments were not merely wishful thinking. 

Injuries.

COVID protocols.

Everyone getting in rhythm, with themselves, and each other. 

My sense of things was to see where we were 2-3 months down the line, what we were doing in January. 

Last night? 

* A sustained defensive focus, individually and collectively, such as keeping Doncic from teeing off on us

* Mitchell rounding into shape and bringing energy

* A Nerlens sighting, and giving us effective minutes

* Ball Movement & Motion

* Less reliance on Iso-Ball

* Julius triggering the offense off of doubles, tallying 8 assists to go with his customary 5 TOs, and while his shot is still dicey, he posted 17-12-8, leading the team with a +29

* Burks with 6 assists

* Our prize puppy Grimes with defensive toghness, and 3-6 from trey

* Fournier starting to look like the cat we saw in the Olympics and thought we were signing

* RJ leading and dominating on both sides of the ball [32-7-2]

* RJ's D

* RJ's leadership

* RJ expanding his command beyond drives and treys, to include short stop and pop midrange jumpers right out of the DeMar DeRozan playbook

* TEAM COHERENCE, as if we actually were a team, and were making each other better, and that our 7-3 record in our last ten games betokens...COLLECTIVE CHEMISTRY & PROGRESS

Celtics did us a favor in Boston by kicking our ass

Thibs stuck to his guns, and the team is rounding into shape and establishing an identity

GIVEN, Dallas was missing Porzingis [and Cauley-Stein] but they had just won what, six in a row, and had a winning record coming in. 

Last night was as good as we've played collectively all season. 

Let's see if we can sustain it against Trae & The Hawks and Hayward & The Hornets.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 13, 2022, 09:10:14 AM
I would give Sims a look behind Mitch and if it looked off, I would quickly go to a vet. If Sims holds his own or better, let it ride. I think Jericho finally missed a shot tonight.


NERLENS NOEL is very important to any playoff hopes, hope for advancement we have this year.

Incredible block last night was exhibit A
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 13, 2022, 10:20:43 AM
Lakes lost to SacKings.


22-7-3 for Malik Monk

Russ shooting is a problem.  With Ariza and Bradley they were 5-27

Kings starters meanwhile were 37-65

With Lillard now out a long stretch Kings could slip in at 10 after all.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 13, 2022, 10:28:09 AM
RJ up to 13.2 PER which is seventh among our regulars and better his career mark of 12.5
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 13, 2022, 11:12:58 AM
(lol, RJ keeps this up he might break into our top five, lol)

Another meaningful game for our boys. The Execution Game. Coming on the heels of the Randle Finally Acquiesces game and the Fournier Explodes game. All important for us. Yes, Carlos, some patience with Thibs warranted. Cracking Coconuts is a process.

Title: Kam Somewhat Red
Post by: Kam on January 13, 2022, 11:37:35 AM

Adrian Wojnarowski

ESPN Sources: The Atlanta Hawks are trading forward Cam Reddish to the New York Knicks for a deal that includes a protected 2022 first-round pick via Charlotte. Knicks also acquire Solomon Hill and a 2025 second-round pick via Brooklyn in trade.


New York is including Kevin Knox in trade to Atlanta, sources tell ESPN.
Title: Re: You are hired
Post by: Kam on January 13, 2022, 11:57:07 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 13, 2022, 01:15:24 AM
Quote from: Fac on January 12, 2022, 11:26:34 PM
I would give Sims a look behind Mitch and if it looked off, I would quickly go to a vet. If Sims holds his own or better, let it ride. I think Jericho finally missed a shot tonight.

I also like the Obi and Randle frontcourt some.

Obi and Noel are actually somewhat interesting in that they are similarly sized and both really good at covering ground. If there is no bully on the other second unit, it may be worth a longer look.

I hope this game is a harbinger of the perimeter guys finding their way into sustainable roles and we can keep this level of play going.

That is what I would tell you if I had any say on Knicks affairs, which I do not.
I would also ask you to work as an assistant for a while.

On an different subject, I would say BoZizzley really, really does not like Russell Westbrook.
What did Russ do to deserve that disdain?

Ask the Sac Kings

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FI9lvNIVQAUHtc6?format=jpg&name=medium)
Title: Re: Kam Somewhat Red
Post by: Kam on January 13, 2022, 12:09:12 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 13, 2022, 11:37:35 AM

Adrian Wojnarowski

ESPN Sources: The Atlanta Hawks are trading forward Cam Reddish to the New York Knicks for a deal that includes a protected 2022 first-round pick via Charlotte. Knicks also acquire Solomon Hill and a 2025 second-round pick via Brooklyn in trade.


New York is including Kevin Knox in trade to Atlanta, sources tell ESPN.


That 2025 2nd rounder could be juicy after KD retires,  Harden joins the TNT booth, and Kyrie joins Bezos on trip to outer space to prove Mars is flat.
Title: Re: 21-21
Post by: elephant on January 13, 2022, 12:11:19 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 13, 2022, 08:36:49 AM

* RJ leading and dominating on both sides of the ball [32-7-2]

* RJ's D

* RJ's leadership

* RJ expanding his command beyond drives and treys, to include short stop and pop midrange jumpers right out of the DeMar DeRozan playbook

........

Last night was as good as we've played collectively all season. 


Yeah, it was incredible. Can we be this team?

It will be interesting to see how RJ continues to play. It's not about expecting him to play at the 30+ points a game level, which of course isn't realistic. But will he recede and disappear again? This has happened in the past.

If he can be a consistent force, okay, we got something.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 13, 2022, 12:14:32 PM
So......Reddish had some issues with the Hawks?

Anyone know the backstory here? Seems an odd trade.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 13, 2022, 12:22:19 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 13, 2022, 12:14:32 PM
So......Reddish had some issues with the Hawks?

Anyone know the backstory here? Seems an odd trade.

He would get an extension soon just like the Knicks have to decide on RJ's extension, and ATL is loaded at the wings.  He was getting fewer minutes than Timothe Luwawu Cabarrot.
Title: KP trade tree grows taller
Post by: Kam on January 13, 2022, 12:24:07 PM
So since the Porzingis trade brought us the Dallas pick at 19 last year and the Dallas pick brought us the Charlotte pick and the Charlotte pick brought us Cam Reddish  we really must thank Cuban and the Mavs.
Title: Re: KP trade tree grows taller
Post by: elephant on January 13, 2022, 01:43:42 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 13, 2022, 12:24:07 PM
So since the Porzingis trade brought us the Dallas pick at 19 last year and the Dallas pick brought us the Charlotte pick and the Charlotte pick brought us Cam Reddish  we really must thank Cuban and the Mavs.

That's a fucking great way to look at it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 13, 2022, 02:05:09 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 13, 2022, 12:14:32 PM
So......Reddish had some issues with the Hawks?

Anyone know the backstory here? Seems an odd trade.

Huerter was getting squeezed a bit as they showcased Reddish

Knicks bit.  Quickley freed up for PG duties with Cam off the ball with second unit.  Yes, his takes Grimes out.  Need more than 3 point shots from that slot.  Reddish will slash - to what end - we shall see.
Title: Cameron Elijah Reddish
Post by: chipstern on January 13, 2022, 02:34:04 PM
Biblical Tidings

Immanuel AND Elijah AND Obadiah AND Jericho

Thibs has a taste for Old Testament Prophets [and Bronze Age offensive schemes]

Hmmmmmm

I'm waiting for the other shoes to drop

Might there be other deals on the back burner. 

VIS A VIS DALLAS? 

Reddish was the #1 pick the Hawks aquired from Dallas in the Doncic/Young flip flop
Reddish a little taller, a little longer than Kevin, and showed some defensive acumen as a Hawk. 
Title: So Far, So Far
Post by: chipstern on January 13, 2022, 02:38:23 PM
C: Robinson, Noels, Sims

PF: Randle, Toppin, Gibson, Samanic

SF: Barrett, Reddish, Hill

SG: Forunier, Burks, Grimes

PG: Rose, Walker, Quickley, McBride, Arcidiacono

Robinson-Randle-RJ-Fournier-Burks

Noel-Toppin-Reddish-Grimes-IQ

Hill figures to be waived, with salary coming off the cap this summer. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 13, 2022, 02:47:52 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 13, 2022, 12:22:19 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 13, 2022, 12:14:32 PM
So......Reddish had some issues with the Hawks?

Anyone know the backstory here? Seems an odd trade.

He would get an extension soon just like the Knicks have to decide on RJ's extension, and ATL is loaded at the wings.  He was getting fewer minutes than Timothe Luwawu Cabarrot.

Qualifying Offer

Reddish: 2021-22 $4,670,160; 2022-23 $5,954,454; 2023-24 $8,109,966

Knox: 2021-22 $5,845,978; 2022-23 $7,921,300

Hill: 2021-2022 $2,389,641

Solomon Hill?  Out for the season.  Salary comes off the books this summer.  Saves Hakws cap space in the here and now.

Reddish all ours through 2022-2023 season, then due an extension or a qualifying offer. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 13, 2022, 02:50:41 PM
I like this move a lot. Leon killed it, though he will need to pony up to keep both Barrett and Reddish on board, but not till some of this years FA signings are off the books.

Cross fingers the league lets it through.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 13, 2022, 02:55:34 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 13, 2022, 02:50:41 PM
I like this move a lot. Leon killed it, though he will need to pony up to keep both Barrett and Reddish on board, but not till some of this years FA signings are off the books.

Cross fingers the league lets it through.

The Bol Bol trade was quashed when the kid didn't pass his Detroit physical. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 13, 2022, 02:57:36 PM
He would get an extension soon just like the Knicks have to decide on RJ's extension, and ATL is loaded at the wings.  He was getting fewer minutes than Timothe Luwawu Cabarrot.


Reddish injured his ankle in a 12/31 game which is why he has been limited.  He had previously injured the ankle on 12/23 and also had an earlier wrist injury.  Bears watching if Cam can stay healthy

https://www.rotowire.com/basketball/player.php?id=4772
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 13, 2022, 02:58:33 PM
Should be pointed out how Knicks have not made the same mistake with Knox that they did with Frank.
Title: Re: KP trade tree grows taller
Post by: chipstern on January 13, 2022, 03:10:16 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 13, 2022, 12:24:07 PM
So since the Porzingis trade brought us the Dallas pick at 19 last year and the Dallas pick brought us the Charlotte pick and the Charlotte pick brought us Cam Reddish  we really must thank Cuban and the Mavs.

BoD will not accept the final tally, as by his logic, we got NO ASSETS BACK, but the Dallas trade begat a lot of moves and signings.  AND CAP SPACE IS SURE AS HELL AN ASSET. 

* The first of two Dallas picks finally summed out to REDDISH

* The Dennis Smith aquisition was flipped for ROSE

* The cap space from warm incoming bodies Matthews and Jordan, and outgoing bodies Hardaway and Lee and Trey Burke, allowed us to sign a host of free agents, including MORRIS, who was ultimately flipped for #1 & #2 picks which turned into QUICKLEY, JOKUBIC and MCBRIDE, and to sign RANDLE, Portis, Payton, Bullock, GIBSON, BURKS, and eventually NOEL.  Some of that cap space [Payton & Bullock] was converted into FOURNIER.  Oh, and Austin Rivers was transformed into JERICHO SIMS

* We still have our own 2022 #1, our own 2023 #1 and the Mavs 2023 #1

Porzingis, Hardaway, Lee, Burke > Randle, Burks, Noel, Gibson, Rose, Quickley, McBride 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 13, 2022, 03:32:01 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if we traded OBI now.   I think with Cam you have a guy who can give you minutes backing up Julius and he can also defend the wing.   Thibs likes versatility and Cam is the more versatile player.

Obi and Kemba seem to be the pair of players we most could live without.  The question is what would we get back?  Can we acquire a good young PG with that package?

I also think that we move our first round pick.   OBI+Kemba+our first.  That might be enough potential and talent to return a starter.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 13, 2022, 03:45:39 PM
If we deal Toppin it is for value.  I think across the NBA his acq. value is pretty high.  Who do you have in mind as a trade addition?  I have heard Dallas is in on Schroder.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 13, 2022, 03:53:50 PM
If Dallas isn't going to re-sign Jalen Brunson in the offseason then it behooves them to move him and get something back.   We could easily offer them their own pick back in 2023 or the package I described above.  Kemba on the cheap to nominally replace Brunson.   OBI for value.   And a first if we have to kick it in.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 13, 2022, 04:12:45 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 13, 2022, 03:53:50 PM
If Dallas isn't going to re-sign Jalen Brunson in the offseason then it behooves them to move him and get something back.   We could easily offer them their own pick back in 2023 or the package I described above.  Kemba on the cheap to nominally replace Brunson.   OBI for value.   And a first if we have to kick it in.

NO

Way

PS: As you duly noted, Brunson is an UNRESTRICTED FREE AGENT in summer of 2022.  And you would give up OBI and a #1 NOW.  Puhleese.  Don't see Knicks doing that, not to mention, fans who would lose it if we traded OBI. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 13, 2022, 04:20:37 PM
There are folks to keep an eye on. Brunson is one for sure.

There is no rush and no fire.

Mitch Noel Sims
Randle Obi Taj Luca
Fournier Reddish
Barrett Grimes
Burks Quickley McBride Walker Rose

Cam, when he is physically ready and caught up, fills a Reggie Bullock sized hole in our lineup with some added room to grow. We replaced Franks wingspan in less then half a season for a middling draft asset and the expiring contract of Kevin Knox.

The Burks Barrett backcourt is about not only ability but availability as well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 13, 2022, 04:21:46 PM
If someone needs an emeritus PG, one of our beloved two may go.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 13, 2022, 04:22:24 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 13, 2022, 04:12:45 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 13, 2022, 03:53:50 PM
If Dallas isn't going to re-sign Jalen Brunson in the offseason then it behooves them to move him and get something back.   We could easily offer them their own pick back in 2023 or the package I described above.  Kemba on the cheap to nominally replace Brunson.   OBI for value.   And a first if we have to kick it in.

NO

Way

PS: As you duly noted, Brunson is an UNRESTRICTED FREE AGENT in summer of 2022.  And you would give up OBI and a #1 NOW.  Puhleese.  Don't see Knicks doing that, not to mention, fans who would lose it if we traded OBI.

Do we have cap room to offer an unrestricted FA?

PS.  Fans are going to have to reconcile themselves with the fact that one or more of the youth we've drafted recently will be moved.   I don't want to lose OBI who is my favorite Knick. But I don't want to lose RJ, I don't want to lose IQ, I don't want to lose Grimes, etc. etc. etc.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 13, 2022, 04:24:19 PM
Cruel

Does Knicks management have a plan for Randle and company beyond following a failed blueprint?



https://sports.yahoo.com/new-knicks-same-as-the-old-knicks-210814867.html
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 13, 2022, 04:28:56 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 13, 2022, 04:24:19 PM
Cruel

Does Knicks management have a plan for Randle and company beyond following a failed blueprint?



https://sports.yahoo.com/new-knicks-same-as-the-old-knicks-210814867.html

It's not the same at all.  That team had no youth and no picks.   This team has plenty of young players with upside and is stocked with picks.
Title: Re: You are hired
Post by: carlos123 on January 13, 2022, 04:29:53 PM
Quote from: Kamster on January 13, 2022, 11:57:07 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 13, 2022, 01:15:24 AM
Quote from: Fac on January 12, 2022, 11:26:34 PM
I would give Sims a look behind Mitch and if it looked off, I would quickly go to a vet. If Sims holds his own or better, let it ride. I think Jericho finally missed a shot tonight.

I also like the Obi and Randle frontcourt some.

Obi and Noel are actually somewhat interesting in that they are similarly sized and both really good at covering ground. If there is no bully on the other second unit, it may be worth a longer look.

I hope this game is a harbinger of the perimeter guys finding their way into sustainable roles and we can keep this level of play going.

That is what I would tell you if I had any say on Knicks affairs, which I do not.
I would also ask you to work as an assistant for a while.

On an different subject, I would say BoZizzley really, really does not like Russell Westbrook.
What did Russ do to deserve that disdain?

Ask the Sac Kings

Kamster, I know he just had a very bad game, following a few bad games, but BoZ-s dislike is old and runs deep.
Poor Russ musta done something to BoZ, either in this life or in some prior one, and I do not know what that could be.
Title: Re: Cameron Elijah Reddish
Post by: carlos123 on January 13, 2022, 04:38:11 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 13, 2022, 02:34:04 PM
Biblical Tidings

Immanuel AND Elijah AND Obadiah AND Jericho

Thibs has a taste for Old Testament Prophets [and Bronze Age offensive schemes]


My favorite Prophet is Elijah.

I always drank his wine for Passover, after drinking mine of course.

After all, as the one no-really-Jewish participant in the festivities, I also was in charge of opening to door for him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 13, 2022, 04:43:34 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 13, 2022, 03:32:01 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if we traded OBI now.   I think with Cam you have a guy who can give you minutes backing up Julius and he can also defend the wing.   Thibs likes versatility and Cam is the more versatile player.

Nooooooooooo!

Obi is a verb. In development. Not a normal asset. Just needs time to get where he's going. 

He already seems incredibly resilient, a great physical talent, a strong attitude and entertaining as fuck.

I don't think he's a one-trick freak.

Would. Not. Trade. The. Man.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 13, 2022, 05:00:01 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 13, 2022, 04:28:56 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 13, 2022, 04:24:19 PM
Cruel

Does Knicks management have a plan for Randle and company beyond following a failed blueprint?



https://sports.yahoo.com/new-knicks-same-as-the-old-knicks-210814867.html

It's not the same at all.  That team had no youth and no picks.   This team has plenty of young players with upside and is stocked with picks.

Agree
 
A very specious, superficial analysis. 
Title: Really?
Post by: carlos123 on January 13, 2022, 05:06:56 PM
Quote from: Kamster on January 13, 2022, 04:22:24 PM
PS.  Fans are going to have to reconcile themselves with the fact that one or more of the youth we've drafted recently will be moved.   I don't want to lose OBI who is my favorite Knick. But I don't want to lose RJ, I don't want to lose IQ, I don't want to lose Grimes, etc. etc. etc.

I thought your favorite was IQ.

Have you switched allegiance?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 13, 2022, 05:51:43 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 13, 2022, 05:00:01 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 13, 2022, 04:28:56 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 13, 2022, 04:24:19 PM
Cruel

Does Knicks management have a plan for Randle and company beyond following a failed blueprint?



https://sports.yahoo.com/new-knicks-same-as-the-old-knicks-210814867.html

It's not the same at all.  That team had no youth and no picks.   This team has plenty of young players with upside and is stocked with picks.

Agree
 
A very specious, superficial analysis.

yup, awful, and ignores the most salient difference: Steve Mills was given the reins in fall 2013. As long as he's not brought back for a third go-round (which you can't entirely discount in a Dolan-run universe), we have nothing to worry about.
Title: Where Is It Written?
Post by: chipstern on January 13, 2022, 06:17:59 PM
Where is it written that Knicks fans must innure themselves to the team offloading youth. 

For the first time, practically since the 1960s [Komives, Bowman, Stallworth, Cazzie, Dollar Bill, Willis, Van Arsdale, Clyde, Jackson, Riordan] we have assembled a core of youth moving forward.

Now adding Reddish

NINE PLAYERS UNDER 23

RJ [21]
Quentin [21]
Deuce [21]
Immanuel [22]
Cam [22]
Luka [22]
Mitchell [23]
Obi [23]
Jericho [23]

Julius [27]
Nerlens [27]
Evan [29]

Alec [30]
Kemba [31]
Derrick [33]
Taj [36]
Title: Re: Really?
Post by: Kam on January 13, 2022, 06:28:31 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 13, 2022, 05:06:56 PM
Quote from: Kamster on January 13, 2022, 04:22:24 PM
PS.  Fans are going to have to reconcile themselves with the fact that one or more of the youth we've drafted recently will be moved.   I don't want to lose OBI who is my favorite Knick. But I don't want to lose RJ, I don't want to lose IQ, I don't want to lose Grimes, etc. etc. etc.

I thought your favorite was IQ.

Have you switched allegiance?

IQ is my girlfriend's favorite player.
Title: Re: Where Is It Written?
Post by: Kam on January 13, 2022, 06:30:34 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 13, 2022, 06:17:59 PM
Where is it written that Knicks fans must innure themselves to the team offloading youth. 


Think about it: you can't effectively develop 9 players at the same time.   Better to trim the bonsai tree so the best branches flourish.  Or something.
Title: Postscript
Post by: chipstern on January 13, 2022, 06:32:28 PM
The Hawks were apparently petitioning for Quentin Grimes, but the Knicks held fast. 

Depending on where Charlotte finishes [Top 18 protected], a mid-first rounder and Knox for Cam Reddish is NOT YOUR OLD KNICKS. 

Hawks get a #1 pick and cap relief this summer, assuming they do not extend Knox.  How Kevin fits in with DeAndre [SF]?  Luwawu-Cabarrot [SF]?  Bogdonavich [SG]?  Huerter [SG/SF]? 

Gallinari and Jalen Johnson are mainly tasked with PF minutes. 

Reddish was getting like 23 minutes a night, which is probably what he gets here.  Hunter who has been up and down with injuries and rehab, getting like 27.  Cabbarot artound 14.  So Kevin figures to get some regular minutes. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 13, 2022, 06:35:59 PM
Reddish very athletic, somewhat wild.
Somewhat akin to Burks.
ATL didn't get much for him.
I figured Reddish would be part of a bigger deal, or used to ditch Gallo.
I'd rather have Reddish than CHA's mid-round pick.
Also, weird timing as Hunter and Jalen Johnson aren't back/up-to-speed yet.

ATL's problem was too many players.
I assume they'll see Knox's horrid D and he'll get buried.
But they might give him a look to see what they got.
But I doubt they want him.  Likely to be repackaged.

I think ATL would have been better off trading the underutilized Bogdanovic and keeping Reddish.  Or moving Gallo for anything.
Title: Re: Postscript
Post by: elephant on January 13, 2022, 06:53:28 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 13, 2022, 06:32:28 PM
Reddish was getting like 23 minutes a night, which is probably what he gets here. 

Okay.

So whose 23 minutes?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 13, 2022, 06:54:58 PM
Atlanta has been looking to move him. They were just waiting for a team to meet their price. The Knicks were the first team that did.

https://theathletic.com/3069571/2022/01/13/cam-reddish-traded-how-hell-fit-with-knicks-why-the-hawks-gave-up-on-him-right-now-and-more/?source=nbatw (https://theathletic.com/3069571/2022/01/13/cam-reddish-traded-how-hell-fit-with-knicks-why-the-hawks-gave-up-on-him-right-now-and-more/?source=nbatw)

Not jumping up and down over this one. Had tons of minutes in Atlanta and hasn't developed much. Doesn't bother me much though unless he eats into too many Grimes minutes.
Title: Re: Where Is It Written?
Post by: chipstern on January 13, 2022, 07:16:52 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 13, 2022, 06:30:34 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 13, 2022, 06:17:59 PM
Where is it written that Knicks fans must innure themselves to the team offloading youth. 


Think about it: you can't effectively develop 9 players at the same time.   Better to trim the bonsai tree so the best branches flourish.  Or something.

Point Taken. 

Nor do you eat your youth as Knicks have largely been doing for 40 years. 

[Komives, Bowman, Stallworth, Cazzie, Dollar Bill, Willis, Van Arsdale, Clyde, Jackson, Riordan]

Van Arsdale > Phoenix [Expansions Draft]

Komives & Bellamy > DeBussshere

Stallworth & Riordan > Monroe

Cazzie > Lucas

SO...out of our 10 Puppies, 5 were cashed in, 1 lost in the expansion draft.

Bellamy was a Hall Of Famer, but a case of addition by subtraction, as Reed moved from PF to Center, and DeBusshere became our PF. 

With Dick Barnett getting a little long in the tooth, when Monroe came available, we exchanged two top reserves. 

Cazzie's peak season was 68-69, when he logged 33 minutes a game and averaged 18-4-2.  Was a 20 minute a night Sixth Man in our championship season, losing minutes to Bradley and Stallworth.  Cazzie was a great all around scorer, but Bradley was a better facilitator and defender. 

So, nothing is guaranteed for our puppies, but out of our 9 players under 23, we have already seen significant growth by RJ [3rd Season], IQ [2nd Season] and Mitchell [4th Season], and to a lesser extent, Obi [2nd Season] and Quentin [Rookie].  They have all attained significant rotation minutes under Thibs. 

So, NO, everyone and everything is on the table. 

But you need to deal from strength. 

The deal with Atlanta was from strength. 

Might we be looking at other deals? 

Seems likely. 

But sorry...for what it's worth [not much] giving Obi and #1 picks to Dallas for someone who is slated to be an UFA this summer?   

Right, where might the money come from? 

Other than Noah's $6.4 million? 

Good point. 

Obi > Jalen works straight up. 

Kemba would have to bring back another contract.

Adding a #1 or two? 

Nah. 

Gibson, Rose, Walker, Burks and Noel are all guaranteed for 2022-2023, come off the cap in the summer of 2023 when, coincidentally, the Dallas #1 pick comes due. 

Also, we have to fish or cut bait with Mitchell. 

So moves coming, but I don't think Leon will deal Obi. 

For Brunson, anyway. 

Lillard?  Likely out for the season.  Turns 32 this summer, and a post-serious injury recovery scenario complicates things in the unlikely event he is even in play. 

And in scanning POINT GUARDS throughout the league? 

Are we really in play for Westbrook or Wall? 

BoD, Please Pick Up The Hospitality Phone. 

Brunson, is surely tempting, but I think the best we would/could offer would be draft assets. 
Title: Whose?
Post by: chipstern on January 13, 2022, 07:20:10 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 13, 2022, 06:53:28 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 13, 2022, 06:32:28 PM
Reddish was getting like 23 minutes a night, which is probably what he gets here. 

Okay.

So whose 23 minutes?

Some of assemblage of RJ, Fournier, Burks and Grimes. 

PS: As per BoD's musings on Atlanta?  Given Trae Young's gifts, if Knox simply can spot up and shoot threes, he will get touches. 
Title: Blocked
Post by: carlos123 on January 13, 2022, 07:35:56 PM
Quote from: Les on January 13, 2022, 06:54:58 PM
Atlanta has been looking to move him. They were just waiting for a team to meet their price. The Knicks were the first team that did.

https://theathletic.com/3069571/2022/01/13/cam-reddish-traded-how-hell-fit-with-knicks-why-the-hawks-gave-up-on-him-right-now-and-more/?source=nbatw (https://theathletic.com/3069571/2022/01/13/cam-reddish-traded-how-hell-fit-with-knicks-why-the-hawks-gave-up-on-him-right-now-and-more/?source=nbatw)

Not jumping up and down over this one. Had tons of minutes in Atlanta and hasn't developed much. Doesn't bother me much though unless he eats into too many Grimes minutes.

Les, my doggie, The Athletic site is blocked for non-subscribers.

Maybe you can copy/paste some of the article?
Title: Re: Blocked
Post by: josh on January 13, 2022, 08:39:16 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 13, 2022, 07:35:56 PM
Quote from: Les on January 13, 2022, 06:54:58 PM
Atlanta has been looking to move him. They were just waiting for a team to meet their price. The Knicks were the first team that did.

https://theathletic.com/3069571/2022/01/13/cam-reddish-traded-how-hell-fit-with-knicks-why-the-hawks-gave-up-on-him-right-now-and-more/?source=nbatw (https://theathletic.com/3069571/2022/01/13/cam-reddish-traded-how-hell-fit-with-knicks-why-the-hawks-gave-up-on-him-right-now-and-more/?source=nbatw)

Not jumping up and down over this one. Had tons of minutes in Atlanta and hasn't developed much. Doesn't bother me much though unless he eats into too many Grimes minutes.

Les, my doggie, The Athletic site is blocked for non-subscribers.

Maybe you can copy/paste some of the article?

Check for a PM.
Title: Re: Blocked
Post by: carlos123 on January 13, 2022, 09:30:11 PM
Quote from: josh on January 13, 2022, 08:39:16 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 13, 2022, 07:35:56 PM
Quote from: Les on January 13, 2022, 06:54:58 PM
Atlanta has been looking to move him. They were just waiting for a team to meet their price. The Knicks were the first team that did.

https://theathletic.com/3069571/2022/01/13/cam-reddish-traded-how-hell-fit-with-knicks-why-the-hawks-gave-up-on-him-right-now-and-more/?source=nbatw (https://theathletic.com/3069571/2022/01/13/cam-reddish-traded-how-hell-fit-with-knicks-why-the-hawks-gave-up-on-him-right-now-and-more/?source=nbatw)

Not jumping up and down over this one. Had tons of minutes in Atlanta and hasn't developed much. Doesn't bother me much though unless he eats into too many Grimes minutes.

Les, my doggie, The Athletic site is blocked for non-subscribers.

Maybe you can copy/paste some of the article?

Check for a PM.

Don't know what you mean
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 13, 2022, 10:11:12 PM
I believe he's suggesting you check for a personal message.
Title: Looking To Move Him
Post by: chipstern on January 13, 2022, 10:30:31 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on January 13, 2022, 06:54:58 PM
Atlanta has been looking to move him. They were just waiting for a team to meet their price. The Knicks were the first team that did.

https://theathletic.com/3069571/2022/01/13/cam-reddish-traded-how-hell-fit-with-knicks-why-the-hawks-gave-up-on-him-right-now-and-more/?source=nbatw (https://theathletic.com/3069571/2022/01/13/cam-reddish-traded-how-hell-fit-with-knicks-why-the-hawks-gave-up-on-him-right-now-and-more/?source=nbatw)

Not jumping up and down over this one. Had tons of minutes in Atlanta and hasn't developed much. Doesn't bother me much though unless he eats into too many Grimes minutes.

Not exactly tons of minutes. 

Rookie Season: 26.7 [Hunter 32]

Second Season: 28.8 [Hunter 29.5]

2021-22: 23.4  [Hunter 27.6]

Cam has indeed been up and down throughout college and the pros. 

But he is a genuine 6'8" with a 7'1" wing span. 

In Game 6 against Milwaukee in the EC Finals, with Trae badly nicked up, coming back from injuries, he notched 6-7 threes, leading Atlanta with 21 points.  And I remember the commentators citing him for his defense. 

His minutes have been up and down all season with the Hawks. 

Worth noting though, in a loss to Chicago back on 12-29, when he got 40 minutes, he was 8-13 from three for 33 points with 4 boards and 2 steals. 

So there is a well spring of talent. 

Again, as per where his minutes derive from. 

With the second unit, and as part of Thib's fourth quarter, who wants to be on the floor scrum.

Robinson-Randle-Fournier-Barrett-Burks
Noel-Toppin-Reddish-Grimes-IQ

Thibs likes to let his first and second units detonate against each other in practice. 

OBVIOUSLY, when Walker comes back, that will have a ripple effect, as Burks likely returns to the second unit, and that means Reddish and Grimes will be jousting for minutes. 

MORE OBVIOUSLY, when Rose comes back, more shuffling and adjustments. 

LESS OBVIOUSLY, Thibs gets to mix and match to his heart's content.  Not surprisingly, one suspects we will see Barrett and Reddish together on the floor at times, and both may be counted on to push Fournier and Burks. 

Clearly, Thibs has his faves and his tendencies...

We've had two months of injuries and chemistry issues, followed up by the COVID protocols. 

Getting back Noel IS SIGNIFICANT, not simply for the defensive presence that was so pivotal to our post-Rose ascent in 2020-2021, but because it allows Robinson to go ful bore, confident that Noel will carry the ball while Mitchell recharges.

Last night Robinson and Noel each registered 1 steal and 2 blocks.  Robbie played 26 minutes, Noel 21, combining for 23 points and 16 rebounds

The Dallas game was the most coherent and engaged the starting five has been with each other. 

And the presence of Robinson and Noel was a significant contributing factor. 

The fact that our first game following the Reddish-Knox swap is Saturday, on the road, against Atlanta, well, that is simply delicious. 

As much as the Hawks have been struggling, you think Trae will be fired up to see us. 

WORD. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 14, 2022, 01:07:17 AM
As far as rotations, steel sharpens steel. Let the competition continue.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 14, 2022, 01:37:24 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 14, 2022, 01:07:17 AM
As far as rotations, steel sharpens steel. Let the competition continue.

Right on. 

Reddish is 22 with great size, length, physical attrributes and a world of talent.  He can put the ball on the floor and flat out shoot.  He has been injury prone and plagued by inconsistency. Some of the barbs tossed his way concern his motor and his motivation.  Sound familiar. 

Even so, the Hawks were moved to draft him at #10 ahead of Cam Johnson, P.J. Washington, Tyler Herro, Luka Saminic, Mattise Thybulle, Jordan Poole, Kevin Porter, Nic Claxton and Cody Martin. 

At 6'8" with a 7'1" wingspan, he has a chance to be a classic Starbucks Vente 3&D. 

And speaking of steel?  RJ Barrett, Evan Fournier and Alec Burks are waiting on your ass, young talent. 

I am REALLY looking forward to seeing him and Obi and Grimes manning up with IQ. 

PS: Atlanta has been trying to move Cam for a long time.  He wanted out of Atlanta.  A lot of teams were interested.  The Lakers offered two, count 'em, TWO #2 picks.  The Hawks held out for a #1, hoping for something commensurate with the #10 spot where they picked him, the year we picked RJ at #3.  The Hawks asked for Quentin Grimes.  The Knicks demurred.  The provisional #1 started out as the #19 pick in 2021, protected through #18.  Charlotte has been playing really well.  Hayward is healthy, Miles Bridges has improved dramatically every year since we selected Knox ahead of him, Lonzo Ball is a stud muffin at PG, and Terry Rozier has been racking up points.  Now it looks like the Charlotte Hornets could be seeded anywhere from 19-25.  In the end, the Knicks were the only team offering a #1.  As someone mentioned, Reddish is a lot more delectable than anyone selected between 19, 21 and 25 where we nailed Grimes.  [Right now Grimes, Thomas and Hyland are looking more interesting than many players picked before them, though I really like Alperin Senguin, the 19 year old Turkis center selected by OKC and routed to Houston]. 

PPS: Somebody slap me in the kisser for being so unduly giddy over a 22 year old underachiever.  But we got him for a song, RJ is his homie, he's going to get a chance to compete, and if he gives us some Obi moments while he is coming of age, FUCK ME, the Garden will be chanting Cam-er-on RedDish, clap/clap [space] clap/clap, as images of sugar plum babies and contract extensions in 2023 dance in his head...at about the same time as RJ's.     

PPPS: WE shall SEE. 
Title: PPPPS
Post by: chipstern on January 14, 2022, 01:40:18 AM
Considering we made a deal with Atlanta for Charlotte's provisional #1?

Damn interesting that those are our next two opponents. 

REALITY CHECK. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 14, 2022, 01:46:21 AM
IIRC, that year's draft class voted Reddish likely to have the best career.
Still has to put it together, but a significant talent.
This Covid year it's a good idea to have extra players ready to go.  Depth is a blessing.
And we'll figure out the fit later.

Reddish is in that super-inconsistent phase of yute.
What RJB is trying to shed. 
The season is a long grind ... lot of games and travel and distractions.
Being physically and mentally up every night isn't so easy.

I'd be up for RedCam getting 10 mins from Burks, another 5 to keep RJB's workload down, and another 5 from FourEva.  The extra athleticism will be welcome.  RedCam a project but with AS potential.  I'm surprised ATL sold so low.  Does anyone think Knox is going to be useful for the Hawks?  Not impossible, but more likely to take a few years for KK to develop his confoidence, game and figure out an NBA role.
Title: The Era Of Hard Knox
Post by: chipstern on January 14, 2022, 02:03:58 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 14, 2022, 01:46:21 AM
IIRC, that year's draft class voted Reddish likely to have the best career.
Still has to put it together, but a significant talent.
This Covid year it's a good idea to have extra players ready to go.  Depth is a blessing.
And we'll figure out the fit later.

Reddish is in that super-inconsistent phase of yute.
What RJB is trying to shed. 
The season is a long grind ... lot of games and travel and distractions.
Being physically and mentally up every night isn't so easy.

I'd be up for RedCam getting 10 mins from Burks, another 5 to keep RJB's workload down, and another 5 from FourEva.  The extra athleticism will be welcome.  RedCam a project but with AS potential.  I'm surprised ATL sold so low.  Does anyone think Knox is going to be useful for the Hawks?  Not impossible, but more likely to take a few years for KK to develop his confoidence, game and figure out an NBA role.

They had a log jam at SF/SG, luxury tax issues beckoning, and Reddish WANTED OUT.  They've been holding out for several months until someone was ready to pony up a #1.  No one did.
The Hawks took a flier on Grimes ["Hey, nothing ventured, nothing gained..."], but when the Knicks said NO WAY, and dangled that #1 pick, Knox seemed good enough.  Getting a role player who would be thrilled to get a steady 15 minutes a night, for an ambitious talent tired of being the fourth man in a three man rotation. 

I think, given Hunter's predilection for getting banged up, Knox has a shot at regular minutes.  Not gaudy, but regular.  Get to your spot and knock down the kick out.  Kevin can do THAT.  Defense?  Well, the Hawks defense has been really shitty this season, so they're trying to work out some kinks. 

I thought of your Reddish + Gallinari = Ben Simmons projection from earlier this season.  Apparently Morey is trying to tie Tobias Harris' contract to a Simmons deal. Kind of lofty ambitions, that fellow. 

PS: Reddish will be challenged by Thibs and RJ.  RJ is a worker bee, still working on HIS OWN INCONSISTENCIES, when every now and then he has a coming out party like that masterpiece against the Mavs, where he not only excelled, but made everyone else better. 

PPS: Check out this YouTube Video of "Cam Reddish Atlanta Rookie Lockdown Defender Steals Compilation"  You've been panting for an athletic 3&D, and at 6'8" with a jumper, well, the thought of Reddish & Grimes out there together, a couple of Defensive Devil Dawgs, makes me unduly giddy.  I'm sorry.  Once a Positive Pussy....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1BEmPAkBEM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1BEmPAkBEM)

PPPS: It sure feels like the Knicks have got another deal or two on ice, though for the life of me, I cannot discern what it might be.  Not sure we pull the trigger, but this trade was a resourceful use of draft assets [from the Porzingis Trade] and a former #1 who was going nowhere with Thibs.  Just like last year, at the exact same juncture in the team's evolution, when the snakebit Dennis The Lack Of Menace was granted asylum for Derrick Rose, and it positively turned the season around and sent us careening towards the playoffs. 

We shall see, in any event.    

PPPPS: The PG from Villinova we signed to a 10-Day with a sprained ankle.  GONE. 

PPPPPS: You've got to hand it to Leon Rose & His Gang Of Merry Men. Coming off of a 7-3 run to 21-21, and a signature game in which THIBS' D was manifest, RJ excelled, the team was coherent [and we dominated on our home court], A TRADE, a signficant trade, one might even say A ONE SIDED TRADE for a young 3&D, certainly got the faithful and those on a fence hopeful, that the season might just be starting. 
Title: if ya didn't get it already...
Post by: lesterluv on January 14, 2022, 09:30:23 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 13, 2022, 07:35:56 PM

Les, my doggie, The Athletic site is blocked for non-subscribers.

Maybe you can copy/paste some of the article?

...The Hawks have made Reddish widely available since before this past draft cycle. The price then was a first-round pick, and it never changed.

Atlanta was looking for something closer to the slot where it drafted him, No. 10 overall, but nothing materialized. The front office had conversations with the Pacers, Lakers, Cavaliers and Pistons over the past several months, sources say, but the Hawks were always waiting for that first-round pick for Reddish.

Recently, The Athletic learned that the Lakers had offered two second-rounders for Reddish. Still, the Hawks believed a team would eventually offer the first-round pick they sought. They asked for Knicks rookie Quentin Grimes, the No. 25 selection during this past summer
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 14, 2022, 09:31:48 AM
..draft, during negotiations, but the Knicks turned them down, sources said.

As far as if the price is fair, we are talking about a top-18 protected pick for someone who has only tantalized with his talent over his first two and a half pro seasons. Reddish, 22, flashes nodes of stardom because of how smooth he looks, then goes through stretches where he is unplayable.

He owned, by far, the worst plus-minus of any player in the Hawks rotation this season. His defense declined, and some wondered if he fully bought into his role in Atlanta, where he came off the bench and was mostly a spot-up shooter.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 14, 2022, 09:35:20 AM
There was a sentiment from some inside the Hawks last season that replacing former head coach Lloyd Pierce, along with Reddishs unavailability due to an Achilles injury, were keys to the teams turnaround, which ended in an Eastern Conference finals berth.

If Reddish ends up turning into the player he has shown he can be, it is ultimately not much of a return for the Hawks. If he continues to be inconsistent on both ends of the floor, getting a first-round pick is a worthwhile return for Atlanta general manager Travis Schlenk.

It all depends on the growth of Reddish.

(and that is about all I can do in respect to copyright law and the need to remove apostrophes which seem to trigger the Elba post truncate function)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 14, 2022, 09:44:46 AM
Think about it: you can't effectively develop 9 players at the same time.   Better to trim the bonsai tree so the best branches flourish.  Or something.


BINGO.

Sort of what the Hawks just did with Reddish.  Likely they will  use the #1 they just got from us in a further deal for talent.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 14, 2022, 09:46:55 AM
I am REALLY looking forward to seeing him and Obi and Grimes manning up with IQ.


Except if Reddish is healthy (big IF on any day) he will be getting much of the Grimes minutes
Title: I must dispose of this swiftly and savagely.
Post by: lesterluv on January 14, 2022, 09:48:49 AM
Quote from: chipstern on January 13, 2022, 10:30:31 PM

Not exactly tons of minutes. 

Rookie Season: 26.7 [Hunter 32]

Second Season: 28.8 [Hunter 29.5]


Not a ton? what qualifies as a ton, lol, Thibs >to Randall minutes? FizWhale to Barrett minutes?

OK...how about BUCKETS AND BUCKETS OF MINUTES

27 is a BUTTLOAD of minutes for a rookie.

29 for a second year? Well this year, 29 (er 28.8) would put him around 85th-95th in the entire league in the Clint Capela, Eric Gordon, Evan Fournier, Mike Conley, Duncan Robinson, Alec Burks, Desmond Bane, Jordan Poole, Jaren Jackson Jr., Myles Turner neighborhood.

How about we agree on ....

FUCKLOADS OF MINUTES

But whatever you want to call it, it's not playing time that has held him back.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 14, 2022, 09:51:39 AM
Are we really in play for Westbrook or Wall?


No

Not now...

Had our chance at Russ.  He stays with Lakers (21-21) through playoff season

How about Schroder?  Wanna give the Celts some future asset(s)?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 14, 2022, 09:58:37 AM
Coming out now that Hawks wanted Grimes in the deal.
Title: Re: Blocked
Post by: carlos123 on January 14, 2022, 12:46:04 PM
Quote from: josh on January 13, 2022, 08:39:16 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 13, 2022, 07:35:56 PM
Quote from: Les on January 13, 2022, 06:54:58 PM
Atlanta has been looking to move him. They were just waiting for a team to meet their price. The Knicks were the first team that did.

https://theathletic.com/3069571/2022/01/13/cam-reddish-traded-how-hell-fit-with-knicks-why-the-hawks-gave-up-on-him-right-now-and-more/?source=nbatw (https://theathletic.com/3069571/2022/01/13/cam-reddish-traded-how-hell-fit-with-knicks-why-the-hawks-gave-up-on-him-right-now-and-more/?source=nbatw)

Not jumping up and down over this one. Had tons of minutes in Atlanta and hasn't developed much. Doesn't bother me much though unless he eats into too many Grimes minutes.

Les, my doggie, The Athletic site is blocked for non-subscribers.

Maybe you can copy/paste some of the article?

Check for a PM.

Thanks Josh, it must have been a lot of work. I really appreciate it.
Title: And thanks to you too
Post by: carlos123 on January 14, 2022, 12:47:14 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on January 14, 2022, 09:35:20 AM
There was a sentiment from some inside the Hawks last season that replacing former head coach Lloyd Pierce, along with Reddishs unavailability due to an Achilles injury, were keys to the teams turnaround, which ended in an Eastern Conference finals berth.

If Reddish ends up turning into the player he has shown he can be, it is ultimately not much of a return for the Hawks. If he continues to be inconsistent on both ends of the floor, getting a first-round pick is a worthwhile return for Atlanta general manager Travis Schlenk.

It all depends on the growth of Reddish.

(and that is about all I can do in respect to copyright law and the need to remove apostrophes which seem to trigger the Elba post truncate function)

Thanks Les. I appreciate the effort.
Title: Re: The Era Of Hard Knox
Post by: Kam on January 14, 2022, 02:02:13 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 14, 2022, 02:03:58 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 14, 2022, 01:46:21 AM
IIRC, that year's draft class voted Reddish likely to have the best career.
Still has to put it together, but a significant talent.


You've got to hand it to Leon Rose & His Gang Of Merry Men. Coming off of a 7-3 run to 21-21, and a signature game in which THIBS' D was manifest, RJ excelled, the team was coherent [and we dominated on our home court], A TRADE, a signficant trade, one might even say A ONE SIDED TRADE for a young 3&D, certainly got the faithful and those on a fence hopeful, that the season might just be starting.  [/color][/font][/size]


*Cam Reddish is one of only two players who have attempted more than 150 free throws and more than 75 three-pointers this season, while shooting at least 90% from the free-throw line and 37.5% from downtown.  The other player in this club is Steph Curry.

*Six months ago, the Knicks entered the 2021 draft with the 19th, 21st and 32nd picks.

New York has flipped those three picks into:
Cam Reddish,
Quentin Grimes,
Roku Jokubaitis,
Deuce McBride,
Solomon Hill,
Detroit's 2024 second-round pick,
Brooklyn's 2025 second-round pick.

To provide some context, the 19th, 21st and 32nd picks in the 2021 draft ended up as:
Kai Jones (19), Keon Johnson (21), and Jeremiah Robinson-Earl (32).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 14, 2022, 02:12:30 PM
Last year Reggie Bullock the role player played defense and stood in the corners waiting for a kickout so he could nail a three.

Cam Reddish is here to defend and to stand in the corners where he is shooting 48% from 3.

Thibs just wanted his role player back, probably whined to the FO about losing Bullock, so yesterday the front office said here's your (younger, taller) Bullock.
Title: Hallelujah!!!
Post by: carlos123 on January 14, 2022, 02:52:04 PM
Quote from: BoZizzley on January 14, 2022, 01:46:21 AM
I'd be up for RedCam getting 10 mins from Burks, another 5 to keep RJB's workload down, and another 5 from FourEva.  The extra athleticism will be welcome.  RedCam a project but with AS potential.

Finally!!!

Now we have TWO BoZ names in our roster.

I was getting worried with just one. Keep it up, BoZ, make it a Zree!
Title: Creddish
Post by: Kam on January 14, 2022, 03:07:01 PM
Someone who hails from Creda, Italy.
Title: Re: Creddish
Post by: carlos123 on January 14, 2022, 05:30:10 PM
Quote from: Kamster on January 14, 2022, 03:07:01 PM
Someone who hails from Creda, Italy.

U trying to give BoZ new ideas?

Good name, but I think he's set on RedCam.

We'll see...
Title: Re: The Era Of Hard Knox
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 14, 2022, 07:19:36 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 14, 2022, 02:02:13 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 14, 2022, 02:03:58 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 14, 2022, 01:46:21 AM
IIRC, that year's draft class voted Reddish likely to have the best career.
Still has to put it together, but a significant talent.


You've got to hand it to Leon Rose & His Gang Of Merry Men. Coming off of a 7-3 run to 21-21, and a signature game in which THIBS' D was manifest, RJ excelled, the team was coherent [and we dominated on our home court], A TRADE, a signficant trade, one might even say A ONE SIDED TRADE for a young 3&D, certainly got the faithful and those on a fence hopeful, that the season might just be starting.  [/color][/font][/size]


*Cam Reddish is one of only two players who have attempted more than 150 free throws and more than 75 three-pointers this season, while shooting at least 90% from the free-throw line and 37.5% from downtown.  The other player in this club is Steph Curry.

*Six months ago, the Knicks entered the 2021 draft with the 19th, 21st and 32nd picks.

New York has flipped those three picks into:
Cam Reddish,
Quentin Grimes,
Roku Jokubaitis,
Deuce McBride,
Solomon Hill,
Detroit's 2024 second-round pick,
Brooklyn's 2025 second-round pick.

To provide some context, the 19th, 21st and 32nd picks in the 2021 draft ended up as:
Kai Jones (19), Keon Johnson (21), and Jeremiah Robinson-Earl (32).

Could have had Isaiah Jackson and still had Grimes and McB.

We'll see how it works out.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 15, 2022, 12:50:24 AM
Still early days for the rooks, we'll be hearing form some unknowns soon enough.
#20 Jalen Johnson is intriguing, and part of the reason ATL could part with RedCam.
Quite a deep strong draft.

So far the breakout 2nd rounder is Herb Jones (#35).
JR Earl has looked solid.
Weiskamp #41 can't miss.
Kessler Edwards has game #44.
Dosunmu #38 intriguing.

Good year to be a 2nd rounder, as lots of Covid absences have opened up minutes for everyone.

Interesting that out of the Top 10 picks, Franz Wagner is the only one shooting above 33% on 3's.  Barnes has a nice looking stroke, but is the next highest at 32.6%.  6 out of the Top 10 are below 30%.  Odd in this era of 3-point shooting.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 15, 2022, 01:26:19 AM
Watched 1st half of POR-DEN.
Dennis Jr. Smith starting for Lillard.
Smith was able to get lefty layups coming off FT line picks.
The one 3 he tried barely grazed front rim.
Had a pretty solid half, until the last minute and half, when he whipped a crosscourt pass to the corner into the stands and then had his layup blocked by a pre-positioned Joker.  Maybe a bit fatigued by then.  Jr. Smith didn't really show signs of being able to run a team or set up teammates.  He did get a PnR assist to Nurkic, but really fed him the ball too soon, making for a somewhat tough finish.
Anyway, was surprised to see DSJ starting anywhere, but I guess that's what this season has come down to.

I couldn't really judge Jr Smith's D, since DEN was playing without a Point, letting Joker handle the distribution.   Later Compazzo came in and caused havoc, but Smith was only on him some.  One mesmerizing play, Facundo picked a Blazer's pocket and then when McCollum tried to slow the fast break, Compazzo dribbled through McC's legs and kept going.  Brilliant stuff, but Bones Hyland clanked the wide open corner 3, blowing the highlight.  Bones has looked ostio-arthritic.  Game moving too fast for him at this stage.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 15, 2022, 10:33:26 AM
15.6 game score for Dennis

Just his second this season

Guess how many Reddish has - THREE

Cam out tonight vs Hawks (ankle)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 15, 2022, 10:36:44 AM
Quote from: Kam on January 14, 2022, 02:12:30 PM
Last year Reggie Bullock the role player played defense and stood in the corners waiting for a kickout so he could nail a three.

Cam Reddish is here to defend and to stand in the corners where he is shooting 48% from 3.

Thibs just wanted his role player back, probably whined to the FO about losing Bullock, so yesterday the front office said here's your (younger, taller) Bullock.

Disagree

I think when we get him healthy you will  see Reddish slashing to the hoop more than you imagine.  He wont pass on open threes but will look to get to the hoop.  Even on the end of lobs - something we do not get from Grimes or RJ or Evan.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 15, 2022, 10:41:32 AM
Weiskamp #41 can't miss.


My pick at 32

Jackson, Hyland, Weiskamp had we stood pat.  Garza may have factored if I saw he was available.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 15, 2022, 11:34:16 AM
Red Cam has a game similar to RJB, but faster and wilder.

This writer is harsher on Westbrooks two crappy clutch 3's than I was.
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/why-the-lakers-have-to-start-reconsidering-russell-westbrooks-role-if-this-season-is-going-to-be-salvaged/
You can see both on vids embedded in the article.

Quote
The precise nature of Russell Westbrooks loss-clinching miss hardly needs to be described because it's been such a common feature of his career. Westbrook dribbled out the bulk of the shot-clock before hoisting an ill-fated pull-up 3-pointer. Clank.

For both, the Kings baited Russ into jacking the 3, by playing well off of him.
Rustbrook was 2-212 FG before those ill-advised jacks. Both misses weren't even close.
That writer calls for Westbrook to come off the bench.  And stop taking clutch shots.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 15, 2022, 01:45:57 PM
RUSS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6w0NPl-VmSQ
Title: RedCam it is!
Post by: carlos123 on January 15, 2022, 02:08:02 PM
Quote from: BoZizzley on January 15, 2022, 12:50:24 AM
#20 Jalen Johnson is intriguing, and part of the reason ATL could part with RedCam.

Quote from: BoZizzley on January 15, 2022, 11:34:16 AM
RedCam has a game similar to RJB, but faster and wilder.

Sorry Kamster, BoZ passed on your help with BoZnames. FWIW, I liked Creddish as a native of Creda.

PS- Westbrook really musta done someting to BoZ, in this life or another one...
Title: Thanks Chamaco
Post by: carlos123 on January 15, 2022, 02:12:13 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on January 15, 2022, 01:45:57 PM
RUSS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6w0NPl-VmSQ

Thanks Chamaco, that's the real Russ. BoZ will appreciate it 😁
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 15, 2022, 09:53:53 PM
Knicks starters get 99 points

Burks looking pretttttty prettttty good

RJ stayed strong in scoring
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 15, 2022, 10:01:07 PM
Nice. Without Capella, Lou Wil and Gallo were the only Hawks who could really hurt us.

Good workload distribution. I feel like we are slowly building something here.

EDIT
Burks 17, 9, and 8, no TOs, 2 of 6 from three but 17 on 8 shots because he repeatedly got to the line.

Randle with crazy hustle and hella good D on Young more often than I expected.

Hardly any of our guys ever looked gassed.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 16, 2022, 02:12:17 AM
ATL blew a 4Q lead v. MIA the night before.
Two atrocious turnovers in the last 1:25.
Trae just lost his dribble 35 feet out.
Then down 4 with 25 secs left, Huerter feebly flicks the ball inbounds to avoid a 5 second count.
MIA got to all 50/50 balls, mostly PJ Tuck and Caleb Martian.
Trae didn't make a FG in the 4Q.  Just 4 FT's, and a late charge.
Title: What A Diffrerence A Day Makes
Post by: chipstern on January 16, 2022, 02:19:43 AM
(https://www.theexaminernews.com/examiner-news/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/626-G-League-Knicks-Coach-Promoted-pic-300x210.jpg)
Title: Ole
Post by: chipstern on January 16, 2022, 02:39:35 AM
Quote from: chipstern on January 16, 2022, 02:19:43 AM
(https://www.theexaminernews.com/examiner-news/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/626-G-League-Knicks-Coach-Promoted-pic-300x210.jpg)

(https://www.dvdizzy.com/images/w-z/zorro1-32.jpg)
Title: Oil Of Ole
Post by: chipstern on January 16, 2022, 03:27:25 AM
Quote from: chipstern on January 16, 2022, 02:39:35 AM
Quote from: chipstern on January 16, 2022, 02:19:43 AM
(https://www.theexaminernews.com/examiner-news/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/626-G-League-Knicks-Coach-Promoted-pic-300x210.jpg)

(https://www.dvdizzy.com/images/w-z/zorro1-32.jpg)

(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/04/16/09/333B597700000578-0-image-a-7_1460794197455.jpg) 

(https://media3.giphy.com/media/9VnK2SUebgetTc9X7B/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 16, 2022, 03:36:14 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 16, 2022, 02:12:17 AM
ATL blew a 4Q lead v. MIA the night before.
Two atrocious turnovers in the last 1:25.
Trae just lost his dribble 35 feet out.
Then down 4 with 25 secs left, Huerter feebly flicks the ball inbounds to avoid a 5 second count.
MIA got to all 50/50 balls, mostly PJ Tuck and Caleb Martian.
Trae didn't make a FG in the 4Q.  Just 4 FT's, and a late charge.

You say atrocious, I say delicious.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 16, 2022, 08:03:03 AM
Quote
"We just got to play hard," Westbrook said. "Sometimes, the schemes and how you play doesn't really matter. You got to just play hard sometimes. Teams are playing harder than us, simple as that."

Sums up all that's wrong with Westbrook, in an Iversonian fashion.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 16, 2022, 09:20:08 AM
Lebron can actually be exhibit a

He coasts at times

But wont in crich time/playoffs

Lakers aren't trying to be the 72 win Bulls.  With their cast if they make it to conference final that will be achieving
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 16, 2022, 10:43:15 AM
Was last night the best performance of the year from the starters?

This was the idea, no? Multiple weapons. Hitting you from all sides. Each starter dangerous offensively (and I'm including Mitch here too!).

Have no idea if we'll see this again, but it's pleasurable to behold once in a while.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 16, 2022, 03:12:47 PM
Hard to do without a PG ...

Interesting game.
Fourneir and Burks reasserted themselves when the Knix needed some extra scoring.
RJB is in a nice groove.  Randle rumbled around.

Bottom line: Hawks a poor defensive team.  Gave up open 3's, forays into the paint and fouled -- letting the Knix score form everywhere.

Gallo was making some big shots, but his D was feeble (for some reason wanting Randle to drive left) and some funky turnovers. 

Game ended and some Hawks, notably Hunter went over to chat with Reddish.  The Knix 2nd unit razzed Knox, the starters presumably didn't know him.  Seemed like ObiT stuck around the longest chatting with Knox.Knox basically unplayable until they get Capela back.  They can't put another weak defender out there. 

If many of the Hawks are etting tired of the Trae Show, Nate should let Bogdan run some possessions, somewhat like the Kings did with TyH (before making him the de facto PG).  Collins and Hunter need to be more involved in the O.  They can score.  And if everybody is a threat, then Huerter and Trae will get some easy open looks.
TRae - Bogdan - Hunter - Collins - Capela
That should be a powerhouse starting unit. Yeah, guys have missed time with injuries and viral issues, but they need cohesion.  And I don't see ditching Reddish as any help ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 16, 2022, 03:15:35 PM
Quote
Kevin Durant with a sprained MCL of his left knee, the franchise expects a four- to six-week rehabilitation before his return,

11 of the next 14 on the road, so Kyrie will be playing a lot.  But Durant has been stellar this season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 16, 2022, 03:50:18 PM
Hawks losers of 9 in 11

Petty much cooked - leaving 11 for 10 East slots
Title: Rumble Young Man, Rumble
Post by: chipstern on January 16, 2022, 05:10:19 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 16, 2022, 03:12:47 PM
Hard to do without a PG ...

Interesting game.
Fourneir and Burks reasserted themselves when the Knix needed some extra scoring.
RJB is in a nice groove.  Randle rumbled around.

Bottom line: Hawks a poor defensive team.  Gave up open 3's, forays into the paint and fouled -- letting the Knix score form everywhere.

Gallo was making some big shots, but his D was feeble (for some reason wanting Randle to drive left) and some funky turnovers. 

Game ended and some Hawks, notably Hunter went over to chat with Reddish.  The Knix 2nd unit razzed Knox, the starters presumably didn't know him.  Seemed like ObiT stuck around the longest chatting with Knox.Knox basically unplayable until they get Capela back.  They can't put another weak defender out there. 

If many of the Hawks are etting tired of the Trae Show, Nate should let Bogdan run some possessions, somewhat like the Kings did with TyH (before making him the de facto PG).  Collins and Hunter need to be more involved in the O.  They can score.  And if everybody is a threat, then Huerter and Trae will get some easy open looks.
TRae - Bogdan - Hunter - Collins - Capela
That should be a powerhouse starting unit. Yeah, guys have missed time with injuries and viral issues, but they need cohesion.  And I don't see ditching Reddish as any help ...

Interesting alliterative touch. 

Rumbler had 9 assists.  Spent much of the first quarter empowering his team mates. 

Big second quarter.

Key offensive rebound and put back under the hoop, under duress, at the point the Hawks were pressing to within a basket of overtaking us. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 16, 2022, 05:35:23 PM
Randle holding back early and setting the table with passes, screens, and clears gives the team that game planned against him to focus more on all the other things the lineup can do and less on that plan while he saves energy and they spend it. If that is established in the first quarter he has plenty of time to monster as the game evolves and have more juice still in his tank to positively impact key moments.

I think the Hawks see their newer Dukie adequately replacing Reddish if not Collins as well. It would be a pretty good break for them if he did. They could make one more move that clears their ladder and lands them a future asset.

Will our second unit D be defined by Grimes Reddish talent or Toppin Reddish miscues?
Title: Minutes
Post by: chipstern on January 16, 2022, 05:51:13 PM
C: Robinson, Noel, Sims

PF-C: Randle, Gibson

SF-PF: Reddish, Samanic

SF-SG: Barrett, Fournier, Grimes

SG-PG: Burks

PG: Quickley, McBride, Walker, Rose

Well, here we are at the mid point of the season. 

Somehow Thibs stood up to the pressure of Carlos Castanet's recall petition, injuries, COVID protocols, and the baby steps our starters took in finding some coherent rhythm and their individual games. 

Somehow Leon Rose & Friends transposed Dallas' 2021 First Rounder/#19 pick into a 2022 asset, our own 2021 #21 pick into a #25 and some future #2s, and Marcus Morris into a first rounder in 2019-2020 and a 2020-21 Second Rounder/#32 pick into the #34 and #36 picks, and Austin Rivers into cap fodder and a #58 pick in the second round. 

Cam Reddish [22]
Quentin Grimes [21]
Immanuel Quickley [22]
Rokas Jokubaitis [21]
Miles McBride [21]
Jericho Sims [23]

A pretty impressive haul, and clearly Cam Reddish easily trumps damn near anyone we could have picked in the first round from #19 on, save Grimes at #25, and, arguably, Nash'Shon Hyland, Carmeron Thomas and Day'Ron Sharpe. 

That is A LOT OF PUPPIES.  RJ [21] and Mitchell [23] have emerged as major rotational pieces, while Toppin [23] and IQ [22] and Grimes [21], in the absence of Rose and Walker, have shouldered their way into the second unit. 

Getting Cam Reddish for our 2022 provisional #1 and Kevin Knox is a rather startling development. 

Yet considering that Reddish wanted OUT of Atlanta, due to a logjam of wings, he now is faced with another logjam of wings in NYC, and a coach who has made it crystal clear that minutes are not bequeathed, but earned. 

Robinson-Randle-Barrett-Fournier-Burks

Has emerged as a tenable starting five. 

And until Walker finally emerges as capable of pulling minutes, and Rose completes his own rehab....and Noel proves ambulatory for more than a fortnight at a time...

Gibson-Toppin-Reddish-Grimes-IQ

Once Walker AND Rose return, things get kind of dicey in terms of minutes. 

NEXT MAN UP? 

Unless Coach projects Toppin as a small ball center in lieu of Gibson [unlikely], and shifts Reddish over to small ball PF, with Grimes, IQ AND Walker filling out the second unit, Grimes and Reddish are going to be going mano a mano in practice for some of Fournier and Burks minutes, save if Thibs dials back some of RJ's load. 

In any event, a nice problem for the Knicks to have, though depth and a surfeit of youth creates its own challenges. 

Be interesting to see how Reddish responds to Thibs challenge. 

In the meantime, Cam stands well above the likes of such collegiate talents as Kai Jones, Jalen Johnson, Keon Johnson and Isaiah Jackson as a tenable youth asset and rotational chess piece, with a chance to log meanwingful minutes. 

Not to mention the level of competition and camraderie he brings to the scrum with RJ and Quentin. 

Interesting. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 16, 2022, 05:55:26 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 16, 2022, 05:35:23 PM
Randle holding back early and setting the table with passes, screens, and clears gives the team that game planned against him to focus more on all the other things the lineup can do and less on that plan while he saves energy and they spend it. If that is established in the first quarter he has plenty of time to monster as the game evolves and have more juice still in his tank to positively impact key moments.

I think the Hawks see their newer Dukie adequately replacing Reddish if not Collins as well. It would be a pretty good break for them if he did. They could make one more move that clears their ladder and lands them a future asset.

Will our second unit D be defined by Grimes Reddish talent or Toppin Reddish miscues?

Kentucky?

Oh, you mean Johnson. 

Mmmmm.  I think they project both him AND Knox as SF-PF hybrids. 
Title: Thanks Chip
Post by: carlos123 on January 16, 2022, 06:35:33 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 16, 2022, 02:19:43 AM
(https://www.theexaminernews.com/examiner-news/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/626-G-League-Knicks-Coach-Promoted-pic-300x210.jpg)

Hey Chip, thank you for posting a picture of my favorite coach.

Now, a picture of my favorite pussy 😁

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLXe0jXQbwnraGCcBzLpNcxCxZUM-X8rtQKFKJ19H1iwU7sPC8Tp7wG5RDveZgJNGEf9LdmwRtkntFykoIyBO5jOyYF0eKjD9LUxY3viravKhneZt8plX5lGLNSYA5F--9a1RjnEkHRlmkogpuX9xNzH=w588-h757-no?authuser=0)
Title: Re: Thanks Chip
Post by: chipstern on January 16, 2022, 06:49:45 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 16, 2022, 06:35:33 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 16, 2022, 02:19:43 AM
(https://www.theexaminernews.com/examiner-news/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/626-G-League-Knicks-Coach-Promoted-pic-300x210.jpg)

Hey Chip, thank you for posting a picture of my favorite coach.

Now, a picture of my favorite pussy 😁

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLXe0jXQbwnraGCcBzLpNcxCxZUM-X8rtQKFKJ19H1iwU7sPC8Tp7wG5RDveZgJNGEf9LdmwRtkntFykoIyBO5jOyYF0eKjD9LUxY3viravKhneZt8plX5lGLNSYA5F--9a1RjnEkHRlmkogpuX9xNzH=w588-h757-no?authuser=0)

El gusto es mio. 

(https://i.makeagif.com/media/1-14-2016/9MqFUZ.gif)
Title: Looking good
Post by: carlos123 on January 16, 2022, 07:09:40 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 16, 2022, 06:49:45 PM

El gusto es mio. 

(https://i.makeagif.com/media/1-14-2016/9MqFUZ.gif)

You look good in this gif, Chip Meshuga. Muy favorecido.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjnxfYox2m4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjnxfYox2m4)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 16, 2022, 10:56:10 PM
Cam Reddish [22]
Quentin Grimes [21]
Immanuel Quickley [22]
Rokas Jokubaitis [21]
Miles McBride [21]
Jericho Sims [23]


Potential depth

Potential trade bait
Title: Re: Rumble Young Man, Rumble
Post by: bodiddley on January 17, 2022, 02:26:07 AM
Quote from: chipstern on January 16, 2022, 05:10:19 PM
Key offensive rebound and put back under the hoop, under duress, at the point the Hawks were pressing to within a basket of overtaking us.

Randle noticed that Gallo was stationed in front of him and knew he could outmuscle and out-hustle Gallo.  Randle went all pass rush and burned Gallo.  Nice hustle and and smarts there.
Gallo had a few slow reaction/low effort plays in the 2nd half.

I was impressed how Okongwu cleanly blocked Randle twice at the rim.  Ok was supposed to be a high energy whirlwind defender, and I haven't seen much of that, due to injuries and CV and ticky tack fouls.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 17, 2022, 10:32:31 AM
Program reminder

1 PM today

A win and a Toronto loss at Miami has us in SEVENTH position in the East
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 17, 2022, 01:24:51 PM
No LaMelo - but damn - Hornets are fun.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 17, 2022, 03:53:03 PM
Free throws, turnovers, and needing one more defender who does not slow the offense down.

Picking a Bridges, either one, over a Knox turned out to be a good idea as many here clearly saw would be the case.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 17, 2022, 04:20:00 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 17, 2022, 03:53:03 PM
Free throws, turnovers, and needing one more defender who does not slow the offense down.

Picking a Bridges, either one, over a Knox turned out to be a good idea as many here clearly saw would be the case.

Oof..talk about Bridges rubbing salt in our wounds..hated the Knox pick from the pre-get-go, but wish him well and some semblance of a career...probably in another country.

Just a dumb game today..ah well, tomorrow's another day.
Title: Whoooooosh
Post by: chipstern on January 17, 2022, 06:31:05 PM
That was grim.

Miles OR Myles.

Now we have Reddish.

Oh well. 

(https://c.tenor.com/fWFqx3GJAXsAAAAM/tomorrow.gif)
Title: Tomorrow?
Post by: chipstern on January 17, 2022, 06:33:03 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 17, 2022, 06:31:05 PM
That was grim.

Miles OR Myles.

Now we have Reddish.

Oh well. 

(https://c.tenor.com/fWFqx3GJAXsAAAAM/tomorrow.gif)

Maybe

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/8dc394033c34cd56c83d3a4a5fe16346/tumblr_pm1kf43VoP1rchkzlo5_500.gifv)
Title: The Original
Post by: carlos123 on January 17, 2022, 07:17:18 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 17, 2022, 06:33:03 PM
(https://64.media.tumblr.com/8dc394033c34cd56c83d3a4a5fe16346/tumblr_pm1kf43VoP1rchkzlo5_500.gifv)

Oh, the original Bo Diddley.

Our BoZ is gonna be delighted!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 17, 2022, 10:16:39 PM
Yep. The first team fell back into mediocrity.

We didn't seem to need a point guard the other day, but I sure was missing Rose today.

Irritated too that Thibs took so long to give McBride minutes (he was a tight ass with Obi too), even though the futility of the game was obvious.

One ray of light: Once again Barrett was good and aggressive.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 17, 2022, 10:32:33 PM
CHA really pushes the pace and tests the D.
And that was without two of their fastest players, LaBall and Oubre.
Uber having a nice bounce back year.

Bridges, Bridges or Shai.
Any one of them would be starting and a significant addition.
Shai was moving up draft boards late, as workouts confirmed his athleticism and talent.
Knix went the high risk route with Knox.
Oh well. 
Not sure Knox has an NBA future.
Maybe needs to play overseas and come back hungry(?)
Or get some confidence in the G-League.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 17, 2022, 11:42:13 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 17, 2022, 10:16:39 PM
Yep. The first team fell back into mediocrity.

We didn't seem to need a point guard the other day, but I sure was missing Rose today.

Irritated too that Thibs took so long to give McBride minutes (he was a tight ass with Obi too), even though the futility of the game was obvious.

One ray of light: Once again Barrett was good and aggressive.

R J didnt shoot well

Lost the game mostly on defensive end.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 18, 2022, 12:45:17 AM
Wasn't about shooting well. For me, anyway. Was about aggression, grit, confidence.

I keep wondering what kind of player he'll be, waiting for him to step into it...and keep stepping into it.
Title: Thibs
Post by: chipstern on January 18, 2022, 04:00:22 AM
Quote from: elephant on January 17, 2022, 10:16:39 PM
Yep. The first team fell back into mediocrity.

We didn't seem to need a point guard the other day, but I sure was missing Rose today.

Irritated too that Thibs took so long to give McBride minutes (he was a tight ass with Obi too), even though the futility of the game was obvious.

One ray of light: Once again Barrett was good and aggressive.

No matter McBride's limitations and inexperience, the period in which Walker went from exile to playing consecutive games of what, 35 + minutes a night was to me, the joy of Kemba having found some semblance of his mojo notwithstanding, INSANE.  Like in the playoffs last year, when Derrick finally broke down from being tasked with way too many minutes, as Elfrid was finally buried on the bench. 

I am a Thibs enthusiast, and believe in his discipline and vision, but he has long had a rep for running many of his players into the fucking ground.  Was he responsible for Derrick Rose's catastrophic injuries with the Bulls.  I don't know if that is fair, but he does ride his starters hard. 

Having said that...

Julius is down from 37 minutes a game to 35 this year, and Obi is up from 12 to 16.  RJ is down from 35 to 32. 

Fournier and Burks are averaging roughly 29 and 28. 

So Thibs does seem to be trying to be less obsessive with his minutes. 

Then again, with injuries and COVID protocols, things have been pretty bonkers as far as rotations. 

As for McBride, he had that one breakthrough game, against Houston on 12-16 [15-2-9 with 4 steals] and looked ready to make the next step in his ascent, when testing positive for COVID took him out of the rotation for two weeks, and Thibs seemed to lose confidence in him since January 2nd, when Deuce fell out of the rotation.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 18, 2022, 07:24:37 AM
Bridges, Bridges or Shai.
Any one of them would be starting and a significant addition

Exhibit B on why Leon Rose is now here

Frank is exhibit A

We can quibble on Leon to date  but looks more promising than the other regime.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 18, 2022, 09:35:36 AM
Quote from: elephant on January 18, 2022, 12:45:17 AM
Wasn't about shooting well. For me, anyway. Was about aggression, grit, confidence.

I keep wondering what kind of player he'll be, waiting for him to step into it...and keep stepping into it.

RJ is getting better at countering what the defense tosses at him.

At one point when he drove to the hoop that was it - the balll was going up - and often in off balance fashion

Now not only is he going to his right more but he can also pull up or dish under control with better result.   Still needs work.  That he can go strong to the hoop and also can a 3 pointer plays well in this league (take not, Q Grimes). 

Consistency of shot is key.  At the D end combined steals/blocks is troublesome but the positive is his size.  Often overlooked.  Character?  Off the charts, seemingly.

Knicks would not deal Barrett unless it is for the right top quality long term talent.  Which is what I was hinting at earlier last month.  Wanna make him untouchable?  I wont quibble but I will also keep an eye on details with this player
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: josh on January 18, 2022, 06:30:26 PM
When I wish to copy and paste something into the apostrophic era Elba (and I am thinking clearly), I paste it first into Word or Wordpad or Notepad.

I then do a search and replace (ctrl+h) for apostrophes, quotation marks, colons, and m-dashes (the longer dashes). There may be others that we should do this for, too, but I don't know off hand what they would be.

This gets around the bulk of the problems.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 18, 2022, 08:18:48 PM
Knicks 1-11 from 3

Keep hoisting them up boys
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 18, 2022, 09:30:09 PM
Julius and Evan beautiful tonight

Nice comeback.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 18, 2022, 10:59:01 PM
This is among the least professional iteration of a Knicks team I have ever had the displeasure to watch.

It is getting very close to coach on the hot seat time again.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 18, 2022, 11:09:06 PM
Only saw the last 9 mins.
Mini fairly sloppy with the ball.
A few bad passes throughout the 4Q.
Almost turned it over with 24 secs left.  Lucky to get that deflection back.

Knix settled for long J's.
Was working when Randle hit a few long 2's and Kemba bombed in a trio of trips.
But not much inside.  And Knix only 2-4 FT the last 2:20.
Unfortunately when RJB split his FT's for a 3 point lead, the delivery guy came with my new mattress.  Fortunately this guy was part of the Olympic mattress delivery team, and was in and out in minutes, so I didn't miss too many late possessions.

Seemed weird that Minny went to Nowell so much in the 4Q, without KAT touching the ball.
Finally KAT scored baseline over Randle and got an ANd1 to give Wolves the lead with 29 ticks left.

Calls didn't go Knix way.  Nowell drove into Mitch to foul him out.  Didn't see a good replay, but didn't look like much.  Mitch still out there, he'd likely be on KAT for that baseline shot with 29 secs left.  Cheapie 6th foul on Taj, garnering Pa Bev FT's at the 3 min mark.
Then refs called a foul on Randle's pass out, negating a corner 3 which woulda put the Knix up 1 with 24 secs left.  Instead Randle goes 1-2 FT and Knix down 1 and Minny has the ball.

Scrappy sloppy play.  Good fight.  A chance to tie and then a potential game winner in the last 6 secs.  Minny needs more cohesion and better passing.  Tangelo sat for the last 7 mins of the 4Q, only returning for the last 24 secs..
Title: Re: Thibs
Post by: bodiddley on January 18, 2022, 11:32:13 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 18, 2022, 04:00:22 AM
the period in which Walker went from exile to playing consecutive games of what, 35 + minutes a night was to me, the joy of Kemba having found some semblance of his mojo notwithstanding, INSANE. 

Indeed.  Kemba was benched for 3 weeks, then averaged 40 mins a night for 4 stellar games.  The 4th game, Kemba didn't have the legs for his outside shot, but ripped off a triple double to beat ATL (in 40 mins).  Then the next 2 games -- 33 and 21 mins -- Kemba was clearly laboring with his knee worn down.  Then he missed another 3 weeks with knee trouble.  Brilliant.

4 games of 40 mins, just to go 2-2 (wins over lowly DET & ATL), and then worn out.
Negligent usage of an older player with knee issues.

RJB has been aggressive and involved.  But now 13 turnovers in the last two games.
He might be getting worn down mentally and physically.  Averaging 40 mins the last 4 games.  Thibs doesn't realize guys get tired.  Maybe RJB and then Randle don't split their FT's in the last few minutes if they played 5 minutes left and were a little fresher (?)  Fournier (37 mins) also couldn't make anything in the 4Q and had his last second drive blocked.  Certainly can't hurt if guys are a little more rested.  Knix have a deep team.  Not only good to have the 2nd unit play well, but means your starters can be fresher and more focused...

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 18, 2022, 11:38:49 PM
Pels & Clips at MSG; then the schedule gets brutal:

CLE - MIA - MIL road trip.  Ouch.
SacK & MemF at Home.
Then a 5 game West Road trip: LAKES - UTAH - DEN = 3 games in 4 nights
followed by GS and POR.

That's 8 out of 10 on the Road.
8/10 v. playoff teams.
Title: Any Thibs fans left, other than Chip?
Post by: carlos123 on January 19, 2022, 12:26:14 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 18, 2022, 10:59:01 PM
This is among the least professional iteration of a Knicks team I have ever had the displeasure to watch.

It is getting very close to coach on the hot seat time again.

Mark of a bad team, throwing the game away at closing time 🙀
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 19, 2022, 01:12:17 AM
Btw, after the 5 game West Coast swing, Knix play 4 at Home, v. OKC & BKY.
** All Star Break **
MIA - PHI - @ PHI - @ PHX
So a month of tough games.

Thibs had a group of strangers and journeymen playing high-level D last year.
Then we swapped D for O.

Thibs has had a very coherent, effortvescent bench.
(Knick bench ranked 3rd this year).

Thibs has been developing yute.
RJB is expanding his game and presence.
IQ demands attention.  ObiT showing some flashes but still stuck behind Randle.
Grimes looking solid.  Sims has had some strong games.
Looking forward to integrating RedCam into the fold.

On the other side of the ledger: 
- heavy minutes wears guys out
- the Kemba situation was farcical
- too much isolation and incoherence on O
- uses his Challenge at odd early times instead of saving it for key end game moments
- too willing to play without a PG (imo)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 19, 2022, 01:07:23 PM
RJ looked sick last night, at times completely out of it, a shame, as it certainly helped waste magnificent Randle and Fornier games, ah well.. maybe it is the minutes.
Title: Normal as Fuk!!
Post by: lesterluv on January 19, 2022, 01:14:43 PM
Hamsters? We talking about mFN hamsters?
Hide yer Hamsters!

(https://i.redd.it/8uyqu295dzr61.jpg)
https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/18/asia/hong-kong-covid-cull-hamsters-intl-hnk/index.html (https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/18/asia/hong-kong-covid-cull-hamsters-intl-hnk/index.html)
https://www.reuters.com/markets/asia/china-plays-lonely-game-covid-whack-a-hamster-2022-01-19/
 (https://www.reuters.com/markets/asia/china-plays-lonely-game-covid-whack-a-hamster-2022-01-19/)
But how about that impressive zero percent mortality rate, lol....

https://www.forbes.com/sites/georgecalhoun/2022/01/17/chinas-manipulation-of-covid-data--the-two-smoking-guns/?sh=973295932f3e (https://www.forbes.com/sites/georgecalhoun/2022/01/17/chinas-manipulation-of-covid-data--the-two-smoking-guns/?sh=973295932f3e)

Tens of thousands of officially reported Covid cases throughout China (since April 2020) that have not resulted in a single death attributed to Covid?
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: lesterluv on January 19, 2022, 01:23:35 PM
(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/9f/75/83/9f7583d2d2ba42515824d5994b4dd1fe--cute-hamsters-chinchillas.jpg)
Title: Just wait til Enes Freedom hears about this!! Look out Nike!!
Post by: lesterluv on January 19, 2022, 01:24:15 PM
(https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-8cd2d19021db768c312d662caefe260d)
Title: first they came for the...
Post by: lesterluv on January 19, 2022, 01:35:37 PM
(https://en.meming.world/images/en/thumb/5/5f/Scared_Hamster.jpg/300px-Scared_Hamster.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 19, 2022, 03:57:02 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 18, 2022, 11:09:06 PM

Then refs called a foul on Randle's pass out, negating a corner 3 which woulda put the Knix up 1 with 24 secs left.  Instead Randle goes 1-2 FT and Knix down 1 and Minny has the ball.


Here is where the NBA is inconsistent.   They don't always blow a whistle on a 24 second violation if the team that was defending the possession winds up with the ball and momentum.  When you have possession of the ball you de-facto decline the penalty.    SO why do they allow baskets to be negated on passing fouls when the foul hurts the team with the ball?   I'd like to see this corrected as this makes the end of games far less satisfying regardless of outcome.  Don't let the referees determine the winner by rewarding a team for committing a penalty.
Title: Word
Post by: carlos123 on January 19, 2022, 04:38:06 PM
Right on, Kamster the great 🐹
👍

PS. Les made me do it, after all his hamster posts. But I do agree with Kamster.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 19, 2022, 06:16:41 PM
Usually the refs won't call a minor foul on the pass, if the pass isn't affected (ie if Randle gets hacked or bumped and then throws the pass out of bounds, then the foul call is made).
But there are a lot of new refs these days, many G-leaguered without a lot of experience.

But rewarding a team for committing a penalty is a theme this season, with a plague of take-fouls eliminating perhaps half of the fast breaks.

Forgot to mention an old fave of mine has bounced back from hard times.
Stan Johnson had a terrific game v. U-JAzz.
15 - 5 - 3 with a steal and block in 25 mins.  Was playing a nice game and then dominated the 4Q on both ends.  10 4Q points including eluding Gobert.  And was Lakes best defender.
Had a pretty assist hitting a cutter late 3Q.
Not bad when a guy on a 10-day contract scores 10 in the 4Q and plays stellar D.
StanJohn is just 25, and should have played more than one year of college hoops.
Stan got 5 starts last week, and I can't imagine lakes will cut him, as they need more defenders than just A Very Bradley and some LeBJ flashbacks.

Early in their rook season, I quite liked Stan John, MyTurn and Uber to have strong careers.
All of them have had some struggles, with the latter two mostly solid.
#2 pick that year Tangelo had a rather blah game v. Los Knix.
Popped in a few 3's, had a few sloppy plays on both ends, barely played 4Q.

2015 draft was weak, with arguably 7 of the Top 10 busts (KAT, Tangelo & KZ the exceptions)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 19, 2022, 08:35:13 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 19, 2022, 03:57:02 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 18, 2022, 11:09:06 PM

Then refs called a foul on Randle's pass out, negating a corner 3 which woulda put the Knix up 1 with 24 secs left.  Instead Randle goes 1-2 FT and Knix down 1 and Minny has the ball.


Here is where the NBA is inconsistent.   They don't always blow a whistle on a 24 second violation if the team that was defending the possession winds up with the ball and momentum.  When you have possession of the ball you de-facto decline the penalty.    SO why do they allow baskets to be negated on passing fouls when the foul hurts the team with the ball?   I'd like to see this corrected as this makes the end of games far less satisfying regardless of outcome.  Don't let the referees determine the winner by rewarding a team for committing a penalty.

http://empiresportsmedia.com/new-york-knicks/last-2-minutes-report-refs-miss-3-crucial-calls-in-knicks-loss-to-wolves/ (http://empiresportsmedia.com/new-york-knicks/last-2-minutes-report-refs-miss-3-crucial-calls-in-knicks-loss-to-wolves/)

If we played some part of the first half like we played the third quarter, those calls would not have mattered.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 19, 2022, 10:12:11 PM
2015 draft was weak, with arguably 7 of the Top 10 busts (KAT, Tangelo & KZ the exceptions)


eh

I think it was fine.  So many contributors

TOWNS   7   445   15275   10259   5078   1351   .527   .396   .833   34.3   23.1   11.4   3.0   60.9   .191   4.8   26.3
2   2   LAL   D'Angelo Russell   Ohio State   7   393   11503   6959   1411   2149   .420   .359   .775   29.3   17.7   3.6   5.5   12.5   .052   0.6   7.6
3   3   PHI   Jahlil Okafor   Duke   6   247   4827   2566   1169   225   .542   .222   .676   19.5   10.4   4.7   0.9   7.2   .071   -2.0   0.0
4   4   NYK   Kristaps Porziņģis      6   314   9751   5908   2460   480   .442   .354   .816   31.1   18.8   7.8   1.5   25.0   .123   1.6   8.8
5   5   ORL   Mario Hezonja      5   330   6107   2284   1026   415   .417   .319   .812   18.5   6.9   3.1   1.3   3.2   .025   -2.8   -1.2
6   6   SAC   Willie Cauley-Stein   Kentucky   7   420   9270   3675   2468   597   .544   .188   .612   22.1   8.8   5.9   1.4   23.3   .121   -0.1   4.4
7   7   DEN   Emmanuel Mudiay      6   302   7187   3299   884   1143   .401   .323   .744   23.8   10.9   2.9   3.8   -0.2   -.001   -3.2   -2.2
8   8   DET   Stanley Johnson   Arizona   7   381   7524   2376   1180   545   .378   .298   .762   19.7   6.2   3.1   1.4   4.9   .031   -2.8   -1.5
9   9   CHO   Frank Kaminsky   Wisconsin   7   377   7925   3541   1527   619   .429   .348   .743   21.0   9.4   4.1   1.6   15.3   .093   -0.3   3.4
10   10   MIA   Justise Winslow   Duke   7   298   7707   2473   1507   741   .413   .320   .634   25.9   8.3   5.1   2.5   7.3   .045   -2.1   -0.2
11   11   IND   Myles Turner   Texas   7   431   12379   5485   2879   513   .489   .349   .768   28.7   12.7   6.7   1.2   33.4   .130   0.7   8.3
12   12   UTA   Trey Lyles   Kentucky   7   414   7449   3104   1765   437   .436   .335   .720   18.0   7.5   4.3   1.1   12.6   .081   -1.1   1.6
13   13   PHO   Devin Booker   Kentucky   7   445   14910   10279   1714   2058   .454   .357   .870   33.5   23.1   3.9   4.6   25.9   .083   0.2   8.3
14   14   OKC   Cameron Payne   Murray State   7   259   4505   1905   556   764   .422   .365   .835   17.4   7.4   2.1   2.9   7.1   .076   -0.7   1.6
15   15   ATL   Kelly Oubre Jr.   Kansas   7   443   11190   5296   1929   449   .436   .334   .757   25.3   12.0   4.4   1.0   16.3   .070   -1.8   0.6
16   16   BOS   Terry Rozier   Louisville   7   439   11118   5274   1694   1310   .412   .376   .814   25.3   12.0   3.9   3.0   20.5   .089   0.4   6.9
17   17   MIL   Rashad Vaughn   UNLV   3   139   1671   423   158   75   .337   .313   .692   12.0   3.0   1.1   0.5   -0.6   -.017   -4.7   -1.2
18   18   HOU   Sam Dekker   Wisconsin   5   201   3097   1094   607   160   .478   .288   .606   15.4   5.4   3.0   0.8   5.4   .083   -1.4   0.5
19   19   WAS   Jerian Grant   Notre Dame   5   279   4998   1692   530   805   .411   .323   .770   17.9   6.1   1.9   2.9   8.3   .080   -1.6   0.5
20   20   TOR   Delon Wright   Utah   7   372   7791   2772   1206   1151   .452   .356   .793   20.9   7.5   3.2   3.1   20.5   .127   2.0   7.9
21   21   DAL   Justin Anderson   Virginia   6   232   3041   1203   585   160   .412   .293   .776   13.1   5.2   2.5   0.7   4.7   .074   -1.4   0.4
22   22   CHI   Bobby Portis   Arkansas   7   418   8865   4536   2682   497   .470   .387   .756   21.2   10.9   6.4   1.2   19.0   .103   -0.7   3.0
23   23   POR   Rondae Hollis-Jefferson   Arizona   6   305   6759   2760   1684   579   .449   .212   .735   22.2   9.0   5.5   1.9   12.9   .091   -0.7   2.3
24   24   CLE   Tyus Jones   Duke   7   427   7777   2544   745   1556   .436   .347   .828   18.2   6.0   1.7   3.6   17.3   .107   0.3   4.5
25   25   MEM   Jarell Martin   LSU   4   184   2927   998   639   114   .434   .346   .766   15.9   5.4   3.5   0.6   3.2   .053   -4.3   -1.7
26   26   SAS   Nikola Milutinov                                                      
27   27   LAL   Larry Nance Jr.   Wyoming   7   387   9345   3144   2538   739   .528   .330   .684   24.1   8.1   6.6   1.9   24.2   .125   1.1   7.3
28   28   BOS   R.J. Hunter   Georgia State University   4   45   395   133   46   19   .371   .295   .818   8.8   3.0   1.0   0.4   0.4   .051   -2.0   0.0
29   29   BRK   Chris McCullough   Syracuse   3   59   532   194   112   15   .426   .306   .548   9.0   3.3   1.9   0.3   0.6   .054   -2.5   -0.1
30   30   GSW   Kevon Looney   UCLA   7   329   5167   1490   1461   405   .559   .172   .610   15.7   4.5   4.4   1.2   17.2   .160   -0.5   2.0
Round 2      Totals   Shooting   Per Game   Advanced
Rk   Pk   Tm   Player   College   Yrs   G   MP   PTS   TRB   AST   FG%   3P%   FT%   MP   PTS   TRB   AST   WS   WS/48   BPM   VORP
31   31   MIN   Cedi Osman      5   294   7291   2923   994   620   .422   .351   .726   24.8   9.9   3.4   2.1   6.4   .042   -2.5   -0.9
32   32   HOU   Montrezl Harrell   Louisville   7   424   9152   5508   2267   576   .619   .110   .660   21.6   13.0   5.3   1.4   38.2   .201   2.9   11.4
33   33   BOS   Jordan Mickey   LSU   3   64   482   152   128   17   .449   .118   .605   7.5   2.4   2.0   0.3   0.5   .050   -4.8   -0.3
34   34   LAL   Anthony Brown   Stanford   3   41   762   161   103   28   .328   .286   .850   18.6   3.9   2.5   0.7   -0.2   -.016   -5.1   -0.6
35   35   PHI   Willy Hernang
2.3
36   36   MIN   Rakeem Christmas   Syracuse   2   30   225   63   57   4   .467      .724   7.5   2.1   1.9   0.1   0.5   .105   -4.7   -0.2
37   37   PHI   Richaun Holmes   Bowling Green   7   359   7570   3481   2085   390   .606   .257   .747   21.1   9.7   5.8   1.1   26.2   .166   0.7   5.0
38   38   DET   Darrun Hilliard   Villanova   3   91   859   295   85   71   .377   .304   .747   9.4   3.2   0.9   0.8   0.3   .016   -4.7   -0.6
39   39   CHO   Juan Pablo Vaulet                                                      
40   40   MIA   Josh Richardson   Tennessee   7   406   12284   4937   1283   1108   .428   .361   .833   30.3   12.2   3.2   2.7   22.3   .087   -0.5   4.7
41   41   BRK   Pat Connaughton   Notre Dame   7   395   7214   2278   1317   499   .447   .363   .789   18.3   5.8   3.3   1.3   17.2   .114   0.0   3.6
42   42   UTA   Olivier Hanlan   Boston College                                                   
43   43   IND   Joe Young   Oregon   3   127   1077   429   130   119   .393   .296   .768   8.5   3.4   1.0   0.9   0.4   .016   -4.1   -0.6
44   44   PHO   Andrew Harrison   Kentucky   3   145   2987   1012   287   399   .373   .294   .779   20.6   7.0   2.0   2.8   3.2   .051   -2.8   -0.6
45   45   BOS   Marcus Thornton   William & Mary                                                   
46   46   MIL   Norman Powell   UCLA   7   410   9085   4557   1041   602   .462   .380   .834   22.2   11.1   2.5   1.5   18.9   .100   -0.2   4.1
47   47   PHI   Artūras Gudaitis                                                      
48   48   OKC   Dakari Johnson   Kentucky   1   31   161   55   34   8   .564      .550   5.2   1.8   1.1   0.3   0.6   .178   -0.3   0.1
49   49   WAS   Aaron White   Iowa                                                   
50   50   ATL   Marcus Eriksson                                                      
51   51   ORL   Tyler Harvey   Eastern Washington                                                   
52   52   DAL   Satnam Singh                                                      
53   53   CLE   Sir'Dominic Pointer   St. John's                                                   
54   54   UTA   Dani D
            
54   54   UTA   Dani D
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 20, 2022, 02:51:22 AM
So many busts.  5-10 all busts.
Either out of the league or marginal 3rd stringers.
Very weak draft.

Pa Bev has really helped turn around the Minny D, along with a bunch of scrappy energy guys.  v. ATL, Bev goes down with an ankle after 6 mins + Edwards gets ejected mid-3Q for arguing = Wolves give up 73 2nd half points.  Hard to see how they get anywhere much with KAT and Tangelo as indifferent defenders.  But the Pa Bev addition has upped the effort level and got them to .500. 

They could use a vet offender, a shooter with some ballhandling/passing chops.  A Bogdanx2/TyH type.  Though I was thinking a vet elder.  Lou Will too old and never a leader.  Will have to think about it.  Zach LaVine would be perfect ... But good to see Minny at least functional.  I'd given up on them and stopped watching their games for a while now.

Best Minny move: feature Tangelo the next few weeks and then offload him. 
Tangelo for Brunson.  Hield?  Gar Harris?  Dinwiddie.  THT ... Covington. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 20, 2022, 03:05:21 AM
SacKings lose to DET at home without TyH.
As their season plummets, they need to look for deals for Fox & Hield.
Both/either could bring in a significant return.

Build around TyH - Barnes,  With Richuan, Davion Mitch, Bagley as bench/rotation players.
Davion is a puzzle.  Just 6'0" but a fierce defender and uber-confident on O.  Can he develop as a decent shooter?  Or table setter?  Or some type of useful, consistent Offensive presence?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 20, 2022, 09:16:24 AM
I suppose if non starter = "bust" you are correct.  I dont look at it that way.  Certainly not busts in a Kevin Knox way (check PERs)

 This is what - the seventh year for these 2015 draftees ?  Being contributors matters.         

Interesting on Stanley Johnson - at 51% FG - I hope he keeps it up.  I'd love to know if there is a reason (new shooting coach, etc) or it may just be an 11 game anomaly.  Stan never achieved even a 39% in any of his other years.  Could just be  maturity, shot selection....or maybe he has found a mentor (LeBron, Vogel, ?)

I take Winslow, I take Kaminsky on Knicks.  (And we already had Mario - heh).

Hezonja plays in Russia now - is actually teammates with O J Mayo - imagine that
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 20, 2022, 09:26:02 AM
Mo Bamba gets 32 on Embiid.   Holds Joel to 50.  Heh.

7- 8 from deep for Mo.

Good to see Jalen Suggs back (4 games, apparently - hadnt been paying attention

Bamba, Suggs, Wagner, Anthony, add from 2022 draft.  Stir.

Need about three more top ten picks, true.  And the right vets.  Pulling for the Magic.  Likeable players.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 20, 2022, 09:30:46 AM
Lakers loss

Dwight plays 13 minutes

Other players were LeBron, Ariza, A Braddley, Westbrook, Stanley J, Reaves, Horton-Tucker, Monk and Melo

Who the hell played center?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 20, 2022, 09:38:02 AM
Not seeing a Hornets (25-20) collapse over next 37 games.

Sowe have five teams for 3 East playoff spots

Wiz are 23-22
Celts 23-23
Raps 21-21 (games to make up)
Knicks 22-23
Hawks now 19-25 - look out

Dont think Indy (16-29) can make a run, but Dallas was buried before their current 9-1 run so you never know
Title: Stubborn Kind Of Fellow
Post by: chipstern on January 20, 2022, 10:10:01 AM
Tom Thibodeau's Theme Song

(https://dangerousminds.net/content/uploads/images/made/content/uploads/images/essejnivram2_465_620_int.jpg)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_ETMY4Ly30 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_ETMY4Ly30)
Title: Meanwhile, Back On Planet Earth
Post by: chipstern on January 20, 2022, 10:34:07 AM
Ryan Arcidiacono?

The Villinova point guard is back on yet another 10-Day Contract, while career scrub Solomon Hill, out for the season in any event, has been waived. 

Swell. 

Now Miles McBride will have company on the bench while Thibs amps up our lead lagging assists totals by tasking the game but overmatched Alec Burks with "running the offense," which mainly consists of tossing the ball into ISO-Julius so he can over dribble into double teams, when he is not briskly/efficiently kicking out to stationary spot up shooters

God forbid we shared the ball and employed motion and cutters. 

PS: What's the Over/Under on when Thibs plays Kemba right back on to the Injured Reserve list. 

PPS: I really like Nerlens Noel, but what's the Over/Under on him getting on the floor for even 41 games this season?  Not making much of a case for his lawsuit againt Rich Paul.

PPPS: Sure enough, the POST was banging the drums for a Karl Anthony-Towns transaction.  SERIOUSLY?  In what sub strata of the known galaxy is that even a tenable option.  "Oh, but he wants to be a Knick?"  BS.  The Wolves seem to be making the next steps with their core of Edwards, Russell and Towns, and have a host of lively bodies coming up behind them, and a coach who has them playing Ferocious D.  And of course, having reunited RJ with Cam, predictably, visions of sugar plum fairies and Zaftig Williamson dance in jagoffs' heads, never mind that the bone in his foot is healing at an agonizingly slow pace, not abetted by the fact that he seems to be well over 300 pounds. 

PPPPS: Not sure what the "Next" Leon Rose "Deal" might be [perhaps a Mulligan on picking Obi ahead of Haliburton, as Toppin seems to occupy a place of trust in Thibs' mind right up there with Kevin Knox], but at least overpaying for Myles Turner [or Sabonis] seems to be off the table.  Turner has a stress fracture in his foot, so he is out well past the trade deadline, and Sabonis sprained his ankle.  Jerami Grant is now the flavor of the month, along with DeAron Fox and rumor perennial, Ben Simmons, with whom Darel Morey appears to have seriously over-played his hand.  And of course, rumors about HOW BADLY we want Jalen Brunson proliferate.  Well, WISHING AIN'T FISHING, and for the life of me, uncertainty about his next contract notwithstanding, why the fuck would Dallas trade him, as well as he has been playing?  Well, apparently, if we gave them back their 2023 #1 pick, that would precipitate trade flexibility on ALL OF THEIR CURRENT AND FUTURE #1 picks.  I see multiple masturbatory fantasies involving Kemba, save there would have to be other bodies involved to make the numbers work, and I suspect that an Obi > Jalen exchange would not sit well with NY fans.  Who knows? 
Title: Re: Just wait til Enes Freedom hears about this!! Look out Nike!!
Post by: chipstern on January 20, 2022, 11:10:43 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on January 19, 2022, 01:24:15 PM
(https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-8cd2d19021db768c312d662caefe260d)

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-6uMbbqO49wY/UmCLtUTSOuI/AAAAAAAAB-o/-NZKr6gtJ3k/s1600/polls_qcdbbhqj_5544_846777_poll_xlarge.jpg)
Title: Normal as Fuk!!!
Post by: lesterluv on January 20, 2022, 11:48:53 AM
No doubt a bloodbath...
(https://static.euronews.com/articles/stories/06/39/16/78/630x354_cmsv2_cec38c16-1d0c-5534-b306-03621902353d-6391678.jpg)

People Are Throwing Out Their Pet Hamsters After Hong Kong Orders Mass Killing
https://www.vice.com/en/article/g5qj87/hong-kong-hamsters-covid (https://www.vice.com/en/article/g5qj87/hong-kong-hamsters-covid)

Yet light emerges in the darkest moments...
Hong Kongers rush to adopt threatened hamsters
https://sg.news.yahoo.com/hong-kongers-rush-adopt-threatened-161213584.html (https://sg.news.yahoo.com/hong-kongers-rush-adopt-threatened-161213584.html)

Some are already calling this Tiananmen Two
Hong Kong Activists Mobilize to Stop Mass Hamster Execution
https://www.thedailybeast.com/hong-kong-activists-mobilize-to-stop-mass-hamster-execution (https://www.thedailybeast.com/hong-kong-activists-mobilize-to-stop-mass-hamster-execution)

Title: Still waiting for Adam Silver to weigh in...
Post by: lesterluv on January 20, 2022, 11:54:03 AM
N.B.A. Warriors Disavow Part-Owners Hamster Comments
The Golden State Warriors distanced themselves from a minority stakeholder, Chamath Palihapitiya, who said nobody cares about the Hamsters group that has faced a deadly crackdown in China.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/18/sports/basketball/warriors-chamath-palihapitiya-uyghurs-nba.html?smid=url-share (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/18/sports/basketball/warriors-chamath-palihapitiya-uyghurs-nba.html?smid=url-share)

Normal as Fuk I tell you!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 20, 2022, 12:03:40 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 20, 2022, 09:16:24 AM
I suppose if non starter = "bust" you are correct.  I dont look at it that way.  Certainly not busts in a Kevin Knox way (check PERs)

 This is what - the seventh year for these 2015 draftees ?  Being contributors matters.   
   

Barely hanging on to an NBA career at age 25/26 is definitely a Bust for a former Top 10 pick.

Okafor seems to be no longer associated with the Association. Last year got 13 mins for lowly DET.  3rd year in a row earning minimum salary.  = bustaroo
Prior to the season, DET traded him early Sept to BKY, who waived him 5 days later.  ATL signed Okafor late Sept and dropped him after 2 weeks.  Surprisingly with all these CV replacement players, OKa4 is still sitting home.  Just 25.

Zonja, also out of the league, and was such a mess that he'll never be back.

Muddy - signed a 10-day contract with Sackings.  So he was out of the League too.  But CV giving him a last gasp. 

Stan John -- got a CV hardship week deal and then two 10 day contracts.  If not for CV likely would be in GLeague.

Tank has played in 9 games this year for PHX.  Lately totally supplanted by the resurrected Jalen Smith.

Winslow averaging 11 mins for LAC.  Has made 21 3's the last 3 years in 69 games at 20%

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 20, 2022, 01:48:34 PM
Last game really had me shaking my head.

I mean, if we can't beat Minnesota at home, just how are we going to survive the brutal 2nd half schedule where most of the teams are much better than the Timberwolves?

I suppose the Knicks do have a way of bouncing back. And the Pelicans are pretty bad. So maybe there will be at least a one-night respite from Knick gloom.

Maybe.
Title: Re: Knicks V. Wolves
Post by: chipstern on January 20, 2022, 04:19:04 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 20, 2022, 01:48:34 PM
Last game really had me shaking my head.

I mean, if we can't beat Minnesota at home, just how are we going to survive the brutal 2nd half schedule where most of the teams are much better than the Timberwolves?

I suppose the Knicks do have a way of bouncing back. And the Pelicans are pretty bad. So maybe there will be at least a one-night respite from Knick gloom.

Maybe.

Hey, dig this

Timberwolves
(22-22, 10-12 Away)

Knicks
(22-23 11-13 Home)

Towns V. Robinson/Gibson

Advantage, WOLVES

Edwards V. Fournier

EVEN, maybe a slight edge to Edwards off the bounce to the rack, Even more of a stop and pop

Russell/Beverley V. Walker/Quickley/Burks

Advantage, WOLVES

Our third quarter made up for our first. 

Towns fouled out both our centers. 

Thibs went anal in neither trusting Obi/Jericho at crunch. 

A few calls went our way, and we pull off a Perils Of Pauline Win. 

Wolves defense was nominally better. 

More significantly, their bench out played ours. 

Wolves are on the rise.

The idea that the Wolves are a Gimme, either on their court or ours?  Respectfully disagree.  Hey, when we played them on their court, without Towns, Edwards AND Russell, we were lucky to come out with the win. 

Wolves are currently bunched up at #7 in the West with the Lakers and Clippers. 

They are looking like a playoff team. 

There has been a reshuffling of teams. 

Teams like the Hawks?

Down.

Teams like the Bulls and Cavs and Hornets and GRIZZLIES?

Trending WAY UP.  Clicking. 

Teams like the Knicks and Celtics and Wizards and Raptors are all locked in a tight do or die scrum between 8 & 11. 

No team is a gimme.

Now the Pelicans?

We should stomp them. 

However, I would assume nothing. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 20, 2022, 04:21:18 PM
Minny a circa .500 team same as the Knix.  In fact both with the same 22-23 record at the moment.  Stack up fairly even at the top end: KAT/Randle; Edwards/RJB; Tangelo/Fournier
Both teams with energetic, scrappy bench players.  Knix with more experience.  Add in a healthy Rose and Knix probably come out smelling better.  Neither team looks like world beaters.  But it's not the same garbage T-Wolves from the last few years.

Knix with the 2nd toughest remaining schedule (Lakes with the worst).
Slightly above .500 and 8-10th seed is where I had Knix pegged.

Hawks can put together a late season run once Capela returns.
Especially if Hunter and Bogdan can stay/get healthy.

BOS, WAS, CHA -- one of those likely to falter.  I'd go with WIZ.  But CHA has porous D.  BOS chemistry issues.
Title: ROSE
Post by: chipstern on January 20, 2022, 04:27:44 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 20, 2022, 04:21:18 PM
Minny a circa .500 team same as the Knix.  In fact both with the same 22-23 record at the moment.  Stack up fairly even at the top end: KAT/Randle; Edwards/RJB; Tangelo/Fournier
Both teams with energetic, scrappy bench players.  Knix with more experience.  Add in a healthy Rose and Knix probably come out smelling better.  Neither team looks like world beaters.

Knix with the 2nd toughest remaining schedule (Lakes with the worst).
Slightly above .500 and 8-10th seed is where I had Knix pegged.

Rose's age and limitations are obvious. 

So then is how much we miss his leadership and abillity to orchestrate, to break down defenses going to the rack, the threat of his three, and how he draws coverage. 

We need a steady hand at the point. 

PS: Currently, our #34 pick, 21 year old PG Rokas Jokubaitis is tearing things up in Spain.
Tremendous upside.  Still, hard to imagine Thibs giving him the keys to the car.  I dont imagine him coming over until 2023, anyway, when Noel, Gibson, Burks, Walker and Rose's 2/3 option years all come due and potentially off the books.   
Title: Tonight
Post by: chipstern on January 20, 2022, 04:34:17 PM
Reddish and Noel.

Out. 

Walker.

In.
Title: Re: ROSE
Post by: bodiddley on January 20, 2022, 04:46:17 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 20, 2022, 04:27:44 PM
Currently, our #34 pick, 21 year old PG Rokas Jokubaitis is tearing things up in Spain.
Tremendous upside.  Still, hard to imagine Thibs giving him the keys to the car.  I dont imagine him coming over until 2023, anyway, when Noel, Gibson, Burks, Walker and Rose's 2/3 option years all come due and potentially off the books.

The next Milos Vujanic!

At least your expectations are somewhat tempered.
Some Knick fans keep expecting some unknown Euro to make a splash.  Whether it's Iggy, Magic Lampe, Papa Kostas, Shved, Sergio!, etc.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 20, 2022, 04:51:49 PM
Westbrook Watch

Vogel reportedly is barely hanging on to his job.
Finally decided to bench Rustbrook the final 4 minutes of the IND game (after a poor defensive play).  Westbrook was 5-for-17 from the field when Vogel put in Malik Monk for him with L.A. trailing 101-94.

Quote
The coaching staff had been debating whether to pull Westbrook from late game situations for weeks, sources said, but always refrained because of worries about the lasting impact on Westbrooks psyche.

Quote
Of the 58 players who have attempted at least 500 shots this season, Westbrook ranks 54th in shooting efficiency with an eFG% of just 46.8. The NBA average is 52.3.

That is a familiar refrain for Westbrook, who continues to stubbornly rely on a jump shot that doesn't connect often enough. This season, 61 players have taken 300 or more jumpers; Westbrook ranks 57th in efficiency among them, averaging just 0.88 points per jump shot. The NBA average is 1.01.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 20, 2022, 05:00:57 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 20, 2022, 09:30:46 AM
Lakers loss
Dwight plays 13 minutes
Other players were LeBron, Ariza, A Braddley, Westbrook, Stanley J, Reaves, Horton-Tucker, Monk and Melo
Who the hell played center?

Some guy named LeBron has been playing smallball C for the Lakes the past few weeks.
Title: Carnac The Dismissive
Post by: chipstern on January 20, 2022, 07:27:35 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 20, 2022, 07:26:27 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 20, 2022, 04:46:17 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 20, 2022, 04:27:44 PM
Currently, our #34 pick, 21 year old PG Rokas Jokubaitis is tearing things up in Spain.
Tremendous upside.  Still, hard to imagine Thibs giving him the keys to the car.  I dont imagine him coming over until 2023, anyway, when Noel, Gibson, Burks, Walker and Rose's 2/3 option years all come due and potentially off the books.

The next Milos Vujanic!

At least your expectations are somewhat tempered.
Some Knick fans keep expecting some unknown Euro to make a splash.  Whether it's Iggy, Magic Lampe, Papa Kostas, Shved, Sergio!, etc.

Could count on you to be snide and dismissive

Lump him with a bunch of reaches. 

Try checking out some of his YouTube clips, MF. 

Not making the kid out to be Drazen Petrovic, but you forgot to mention Pable Prigioni, Carnac,  who was NOT A BUM.  Wouldn't be too shabby.  But I guess that doesn't fit your all knowing narrative. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 20, 2022, 07:49:36 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 20, 2022, 01:48:34 PM
Last game really had me shaking my head.

I mean, if we can't beat Minnesota at home, just how are we going to survive the brutal 2nd half schedule where most of the teams are much better than the Timberwolves?

I suppose the Knicks do have a way of bouncing back. And the Pelicans are pretty bad. So maybe there will be at least a one-night respite from Knick gloom.

Maybe.

Heh

Knicks have FOUR points in sixminutes
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 20, 2022, 07:54:25 PM
BOS, WAS, CHA -- one of those likely to falter.  I'd go with WIZ.  But CHA has porous D.  BOS chemistry issues.


Told you - Charlotte is gone  - not to be caught

Re:  the other Ball (Lonzo) - out 6-8 weeks with meniscus  - rough.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 20, 2022, 08:03:33 PM
Bo would tell you that Jaxson Hayes is a bust

Hayes is eating our lunch.
Title: YIKES
Post by: chipstern on January 20, 2022, 09:10:41 PM
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-c38438PRnLc/UL03Fn36YqI/AAAAAAAAAGc/3RES2_ezvp0/s1600/Moby+dick+2.jpg)

(https://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/images/reviews/196/full/1442076043_3.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/y15DotG.gif)



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 20, 2022, 09:26:38 PM
Grisly shit!

Terrible in every aspect. Walker just awful tonight. And down more than 20, Julius afraid to take a shot!

Meanwhile Obi glued to the bench because....because...no idea.  Maybe Thibs wants to make sure there's absolutely no entertainment value in the game? If so, he's succeeding!

Though, really, Mitchell has made some great plays. Can't think of anyone else who's playing even at mediocre level.

The white whale has torn off our limbs and we are devoured.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 20, 2022, 09:58:31 PM
Alvarado had his career moment tonight. Scrappy kid.

I still do not see the benefit of Kemba Walker at this point. I know he has a stellar reputation around the league and all.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 21, 2022, 01:30:42 AM
Prigioni played in Euroland but wasn't a Euro.  South American players tend to be rugged and crafty.  If you are a Prigioni fan, check out Campazzo.  Rather similar little guy.  Exciting player.

Seems there's always some Euro PG who supposedly is gonna set the NBA ablaze: Spannoulis or Sergio, Llull or recently the much hyped Milos Teodosic who was reputedly some passing genius.

I looked up Jakubaitus quickly and the one site I clicked to had Jaku ranked 12th for PG's in the last draft (McBride was 7th). Said he finishes well in Euroland but likely won't in the NBA, so needs to up his outside shooting. 

As far as Jax Hayes, I'd say he's coming along slowly.  One game doesn't change a career trajectory. 

But everyone in the NBA can play.  And plenty of guys outside the NBA as well.  Look at all these G-League guys showing they've got NBA level game this year. How many here had heard of Alvarado before tonight?

It's going to be interesting to see who sticks around next year, which unknown can carve out a long-term NBA role. I thought all these replacement players was going to dilute the game and result in sloppy play.  Instead, it's scrappy play that's been fun to watch and root for the underdogs.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 21, 2022, 01:56:46 AM
Quote
New York Knicks acquired the draft rights to guard Rokas Jokubaitis and Miles McBride from the Oklahoma City Thunder in exchange for the draft rights to forward Jeremiah Robinson-Earl.

That is, Knix flipped the #32 pick into the #34 & 36.
So guess we need to keep an eye on JR Earl to evaluate the deal.

Jaku taken #34
#38 was Dosunmu who has really looked sharp on both ends for CHI.
40 Jared Butler
41 Weiskamp
42 Kess Edwards
48 Sharife Cooper (off to a poor start)

Looks like a strong 2nd round.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 21, 2022, 12:57:02 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 20, 2022, 09:26:38 PM
Grisly shit!

Terrible in every aspect. Walker just awful tonight. And down more than 20, Julius afraid to take a shot!

Meanwhile Obi glued to the bench because....because...no idea.  Maybe Thibs wants to make sure there's absolutely no entertainment value in the game? If so, he's succeeding!


lol, it was pretty terrible, and when Obi did come in for his four first half minutes, Thibs wasn't satisfied with keeping him perched at the three point line, he moved him damn near back to half court.

That said...

Thibs has one hell of a tough job caring for the eggshell fragile Julius noggin.
Getting him to be sharing and caring AND aggressive to the hoop. (The first was very present early in the game, gorgeous feeds, the second not so much).
Keeping him focused on playing basketball and defense and ignoring the refs. (Jonas just blocked the $% out of you. Don't bark at the refs and get a T you pussy. Run back and give it back at the other end.)

[and BTW, the refs actually did a pretty fair job last night, unlike v. the Twolves. We got LOTS of calls. The ones that seemed atrocious at first, like the Kemba nonshooting call, the Grimes offensive call, were actually pretty great reffing jobs on review. Nothing to complain about. Move the f on and play ball.]

As for Kemba, sticking him into the second unit prob the best idea. Quick has been so awful there. 20 seconds of dribbling or ugly momentum destroying chucks. He could use a bit of help. Kemba can provide. Meanwhile, Julius, Evan, and RJ can work on getting their game on unmolested. Or not.
Title: Normal as Fuk!!!
Post by: lesterluv on January 21, 2022, 01:29:16 PM
So how do you manage all these cases in China while claiming almost ZERO DEATHS, rofl, and keeping Bo Believing in the efficacy of disinfecting every parcel of frozen meat? In addition to murdering all available hamsters, another key:

Detained, missing, close to death: the toll of reporting on Covid in China
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/04/detained-missing-close-to-death-toll-reporting-covid-china (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/04/detained-missing-close-to-death-toll-reporting-covid-china)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 21, 2022, 02:24:18 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on January 21, 2022, 12:57:02 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 20, 2022, 09:26:38 PM
Grisly shit!

Terrible in every aspect. Walker just awful tonight. And down more than 20, Julius afraid to take a shot!

Meanwhile Obi glued to the bench because....because...no idea.  Maybe Thibs wants to make sure there's absolutely no entertainment value in the game? If so, he's succeeding!


lol, it was pretty terrible, and when Obi did come in for his four first half minutes, Thibs wasn't satisfied with keeping him perched at the three point line, he moved him damn near back to half court.

That said...

Thibs has one hell of a tough job caring for the eggshell fragile Julius noggin.
Getting him to be sharing and caring AND aggressive to the hoop. (The first was very present early in the game, gorgeous feeds, the second not so much).
Keeping him focused on playing basketball and defense and ignoring the refs. (Jonas just blocked the $% out of you. Don't bark at the refs and get a T you pussy. Run back and give it back at the other end.)

[and BTW, the refs actually did a pretty fair job last night, unlike v. the Twolves. We got LOTS of calls. The ones that seemed atrocious at first, like the Kemba nonshooting call, the Grimes offensive call, were actually pretty great reffing jobs on review. Nothing to complain about. Move the f on and play ball.]

As for Kemba, sticking him into the second unit prob the best idea. Quick has been so awful there. 20 seconds of dribbling or ugly momentum destroying chucks. He could use a bit of help. Kemba can provide. Meanwhile, Julius, Evan, and RJ can work on getting their game on unmolested. Or not.

I very much agree with both the bolded bits.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 21, 2022, 03:26:57 PM
And your point about Julius is obvious and concerning. He's fucked up. Needs some help. Never seen him so psychologically fragile. If I were the Knicks and there's some hoops guru that might help, I'd fly the man in on the company jet.
Title: A Few Points
Post by: chipstern on January 21, 2022, 03:30:22 PM
We appear to be in a chicken or the egg conundrum. 

For instance, Elephant's observation about Obi, and the sense that Thibs is mis-using him or refusing to use him. 

Okay. 

Parking Obi out by the three-point line seems like a fool's errand. 

He has proven to be effective on back cuts along the baseline, pick and rolls.  Which were effective when Rose had his hand on the tiller. 

Thibs useage of Obi baffles me.  The other night when both Taj and Mitchell fouled out, and, of course, Nerlens was a DNP. 

Going with four wings and Julius, seemed a slap in the face.  Not to mention a bizarre strategy, but then Thibs faith or misplaced faith in some players and some schemes is...concerning. 

Such as IQ.  I love the kid, but I have often observed at games end, whence a blow out one way or another, he tends to be a ball hog, looking for his shot, when Grimes and McBride would certainly benefit from some touches.  I find that disturbing. 

And last night, when we appeared to me making, if not a run, establishing some sort of rhythm, and IQ came up court and pulled up from thirty feet, without even waiting for his team mates to get in position for a rebound or a pass, and launched that rushed off balance heat check three, I was just enraged.  It was not only a tone deaf, stupid play, it was A VERY SELFISH PLAY, a wasted possession, which led to a long rebound and a basket on the other end.  I like IQ, but the immature thought process on that play was deeply troubling. 

Back to Obi for a second.  The beatification of Toppin, while understandable--and I share the Garden's love for Obi--is dubious. 

YES, he should get more minutes, with and without Julius.   

But are we going to see a significant uptick in his game with no tenable PGs, and with the ISO heavy offense we are running. 

I mean, OBI HAS NO FUCKING SHOT, and has not shown a predilection for creating his own offense.  Where is his 12-15 footer, his stop and pop off the dribble.  And his three?  Come on. 

We all love his hops and energy and boundless enthusiasm, but is it that his game is limited or that the manner in which Thibs deploys him, LIMITING???

THIBS APPEARS TO BE DELIVERING MIXED MESSAGES TO ALL HIS PLAYERS. 

And the players are playing TIGHT.  Thibs is not doing Julius any favors by tasking him to be both unselfish on one hand, and dominating on the other, as if he could just turn it on and off.  CLEARLY JULIUS IS PSYCHOLOGICALLY VERY FRAGILE AT THIS POINT, and doesn't know whether to shit or go blind.

Early in the game, while Julius had two TOs, he also had five assists, including some beauties. 

But how many shots did he turn down in order to make a kick out to a three point shooter.  And he's not alone.  That appears to be a STRATEGY, and I mean, what the fuck?  There are times to be unselfish, and there are times to take what the defense gives you. 

Again, the fool's gold of the three. 

An old school wing like DeMar DeRozan, while he has evolved his game to reflect the modern analytics, is money in the bank on those bread and butter 12-15 footers, with which our own Bernard King used to put his defenders in the blender. 

FUCK THE ANALYTICS.  Turning down a high percentage open look for a trey makes no sense to me.  One of the more encouraging signs in RJ's evolution of late has been his burgeoning mastery of the floater, and greater confidence in a 12-15 foot DeRozan stop and pop. 

EASY BASKETS?  Are a beautiful thing. 

JULIUS?  His struggles baffle me.  As is his wont, HE IS OVERTHINKING THINGS with this whole point forward concept Thibs encourages.  Not that he doesn't have a feel for it, but your can see him THINKING rather than REACTING, being TENTATIVE rather than being DECISIVE. 

Doesn't help that never mind his three point shooting, all of those pull ups in the paint abd baseline jumpers that were money in the bank last season, are not falling.  AND IT IS FUCKING WITH HIS MIND. 

The notion as advanced by some of our more sophisticated fans, that Julius got his money and is now fucking off, IS NUTS. 

But clearly, when you see him over dribble and pound the ball, either in search of someone to pass to, or to create his own shot, HE IS NOT ACTING BUT REACTING, and it doesn't help that he is being tasked with running an offense on a team with no tenable point guard.  It leads to turnovers and frustration. 

No, Carlos, I don't think Thibs should be fired.  Nor does the notion of Mike Miller suggest a tenable changing of the guard. 

BUT COACH TT HAS TO SHOULDER THE RESPONSIBILITY for the tentative mindset of his troops. 

Nor does it help to have sixth men offensive role players such as Burks and Quickey tasked with running an offense.  They are very adept at creating their own shot, but....well, nothing left to say. 

Finally, while Miles McBride has struggled with his shot all season, and is clearly still a tadpole, every time he is sent down to the G League to log some minutes, he responds like a champ. 

He had 16 assists the other night, overcoming an awful shooting first half, to supercharge his team to victory, and making the offense purr. 

And Thibs can't find minutes for him when Kemba and Alec and IQ are stinking up the joint.  Let the kid earn his spurs. 

FINALLY, losing both Noel AND Rose, has thrown our team into a tizzy, sundering the One-Two Punch of a stable second team to create energy and balance out the impact and signature of our first and second units.  Nor does the sheer inconsistency of Julius and Evan, who sometimes look like world beaters, and who oft times look frustrated and befuddled, help. 

Clippers on Sunday.  Hopefully Reddish can bring some energy.  Hopefully Noel can get back on the court. 

I do so hope Leon Rose does not pursue a panic move.  I don't see anything out there which is going to transform us, and the price for the likes of a Fox or a Brunson could prove prohibitive. 

Please, DEAR LORD, no Eddy Curry, Stephon Marbury, Carmelo Anthony reaches.  Clearly, Leon wanted to maintain the chemistry of last year's team, but was hedging his bets with all of those 2-year/3rd year team option deals, though we went all in on Julius and Evan. 

Time to make it work, and go back to the drawing board to find some schemes that work.
Title: Not worried
Post by: carlos123 on January 21, 2022, 05:01:20 PM
Quote from: Chip on January 21, 2022, 03:30:22 PM

No, Carlos, I don't think Thibs should be fired.  Nor does the notion of Mike Miller suggest a tenable changing of the guard. 

Aint worried about your, Chip.

You already seeing ALMOST ALL THE REASONS why Thibs needs to go. He'll be good for a year or two elsewhere. Has run his course here. He no longer knows what to do, other than being stubborn, and the players can see it. They are not stupid.

YOU WILL COME AROUND.
(https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/heraldbanner.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/f/9b/f9bc6fa8-1918-11ea-9186-a3750322709b/5debe4ccccc5b.image.jpg?resize=400%2C225)
MIKE MILLER HEAD COACH
Title: Duh
Post by: chipstern on January 21, 2022, 05:03:01 PM
And your solution is Mike Miller? 

DUH.
Title: YES!!!!!!!
Post by: carlos123 on January 21, 2022, 05:40:16 PM
Quote from: Chip on January 21, 2022, 05:03:01 PM
And your solution is Mike Miller? 

DUH.

He was good when he was given a chance, good for THIS TEAM, and he knows most of his players already, they seemed to have enjoyed playing for him. He will give them confidence, instead of making them play tentative and tight.

I think you'll come around to Miller, too.
Title: Re: YES!!!!!!!
Post by: chipstern on January 21, 2022, 05:53:04 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 21, 2022, 05:40:16 PM
Quote from: Chip on January 21, 2022, 05:03:01 PM
And your solution is Mike Miller? 

DUH.

He was good when he was given a chance, good for THIS TEAM, and he knows most of his players already, they seemed to have enjoyed playing for him. He will give them confidence, instead of making them play tentative and tight.

I think you'll come around to Miller, too.

Enjoy your absurd little joke. 
Title: My duckling is always positive
Post by: carlos123 on January 21, 2022, 06:04:46 PM
Quote from: Chip on January 21, 2022, 05:53:04 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 21, 2022, 05:40:16 PM
Quote from: Chip on January 21, 2022, 05:03:01 PM
And your solution is Mike Miller? 

DUH.

He was good when he was given a chance, good for THIS TEAM, and he knows most of his players already, they seemed to have enjoyed playing for him. He will give them confidence, instead of making them play tentative and tight.

I think you'll come around to Miller, too.

Enjoy your absurd little joke.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLWCD44E4tN5r79bnKABbKT4xXOQRY3dwxiRLU5j0xst1d52rAkbvMV4cvVhttsj9Bmx3H6Lf2FZqiOtm_ANVJWWOv8lDlkV4RL6J11knfutdg91C1SLzxfBddqHCeoILcu2ZadWGBWspsWG9XUtQ0Ki=w700-h506-no?authuser=0)

Name is Millerito, and he knows how to make me feel confident.
Title: Russell Westbrook
Post by: carlos123 on January 21, 2022, 10:16:10 PM
Had a very good game today.
I'm sure his friend BoZ will be happy about it 😁
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 22, 2022, 01:34:51 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 20, 2022, 08:03:33 PM
Jaxson Hayes is eating our lunch.

More like Jax took a bite of our snack.
Hayes had 3 dunks early, then didn't score again, while racking up 5 fouls.  Managed 2 boards.  Non-factor.

Quote from: chipstern on January 21, 2022, 03:30:22 PM
The notion as advanced by some of our more sophisticated fans, that Julius got his money and is now fucking off, IS NUTS. 

The notion is that Randle wanted to earn $100M and get tenured with the Knix.
So last year, Julius came in in peak physical condition, with his mind focused.  He played his ass off, was ultra-confident, and in the 2nd half of the season, it paid off.  I'd argue that putting a host of defenders around Randle was key, with his offensive brilliance just enough to carry the team along.  A Julius Randle led team with a defensive identity.  This year, the Knick starters have no identity and Randle is less dominant and less confident.

Every season is long and challenging, filled with minor aches and potential distractions (didn't JR have a new baby just after the start of the season?).  It's not easy to be locked in and ready (mentally and physically) for 82 games over 7+ months, plus put in the requisite off-season work as well when nobody is watching. 

Takes a big commitment and a good deal of talent to be an all-star.   Last year Randle was locked and loaded. I find it hard to believe that the contract year and a desire to stay in NY didn't play a major role in Julius putting it together last year.  While the urgency, focus, determination and confidence have waned this season.  The team we've surrounded Randle with also hasn't been terribly helpful, especially the no PG lineups. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 22, 2022, 01:45:49 AM
Hawks on a 3 game winning streak.
Beat MIA as Capela returned.
Heat without Lowry and Herro; Hawks w/out Bogdan and Gallo.
I still think when Hawks have their team intact, they'll be dangerous and make a move into playoff position. Return of Hunter and Capela key.  Maybe good to have erratic malcontent Cam Red out of there as well(?)  Knox got 15 mins v. MIA.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 22, 2022, 08:39:50 AM
Last nine Randle games (5 were wins)

In best to worst order by game score

25.2
22.1
18.8
16.6
14.0
10.5
4.5
2.7
0.1

Those last three are unheard of for JR, true.   But we did win one of the three.

I know we would all love for Julius to maintain his All Star form - and do it most every night.  But most nights he is fine (look up what game score is on basketball-reference if you need to and look at the game logs) - and his struggles are being overanalyzed.   Weight of the big contract and of carrying a team in a basketball nuts city getting to him a bit?  Sure.  Give it time.

Now - Leon - lets go get him some more help





Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 22, 2022, 04:21:53 PM
REDDISH reportedly ready to go tomorrow
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 22, 2022, 05:01:15 PM
Randle Fournier and Noel for Fox and Barnes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 22, 2022, 07:39:31 PM
For Reddish, Lakers offered tow number twos

Cleveland did research on Cam and it wasnt pretty

Hawks were looking at a Collins,  Reddick and a #1 for Simmons.  Then asked for more.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 22, 2022, 08:28:11 PM
I've always considered Grayson Allen the most obnoxious ball player I'd ever seen.

His "foul" last night on Caruso was just par for the (Grayson's) course.

Douchebag.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 23, 2022, 01:24:32 AM
Wasn't Facil or somebody here a Biz Biyombo booster?
He's been killing it since the Suns picked him up 3 weeks ago.
BiBi is the back up C with Ayton out, an important role since you can't go with JaVale too long.   Biz Bomb averaging 9 & 6 in 19 mins ... on 69% FG.
Dropped a 21 / 13 / 5 assist 2 block gem v. IND.
Pacers playing with Holiday as the only starter; Lance 17 in 18 mins: Bitadze 16 & 11.
I keep saying that there is a C glut and backup C's can be had cheap.  Credit Biyombo for being ready.
[Edit: DAL just waived Cauley-Stein, preferring Marquese Chriss (still just 24)]

Tatum now 0-fer his last 20 3's.  And Celts absolutely can't win any close games.  I think they are 5-10 in close games after collapsing v POR, not scoring any points for 7 minutes until some FT's with 30 secs left, and a double digit lead blown.
Tatum still putting up big numbers but really struggling to be The Man, especially in crunch time.  Somewhere Paul Pierce is shaking his head.  Young guys struggle with consistency, and it's always hard to reach the next level.  Keep that (and Tatum's struggles) in mind while we watch RJB's development.

Getting gory for the Bulls.  Ball and Caruso out for 6-8 weeks.  Zach has been resting his knee.  Tough times.  Is Coby White ready?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 23, 2022, 09:35:18 AM
Reg Jax has played well last 3 games.  Can't make a 3, but his floater is deadly.
Play off of him and bait him into shooting 3's.  Who guards Jax, Burks?
Zubac has been good too.  Banging folks out of the way (as does Hartenstein, but with more fouls). 

Kennard and Batum their main outside threats.  And they are slow-footed, so can make them rush shots with good closeouts (neither much of a drive threat, more fake and sidestep 3 players).  A night day B2B for LAC.  So Knix should come out with energy and go at them hard from the get go.  Boston a poor shooter willing to chuck.  Another guy, along with RegJax, you want to encourage 3's from.  Ter Mann the type of wildcard who might kill us.  Keep track of him.  Don't let him rampage.

This should be a good matchup for Randle and RJB.  Batum will handle duties on both of them I expect. (TyLu had Batum guarding Embiid 4Q!).  Morris too slowfooted and foul prone to check Julius or RJB.  This could be a game to dust off the Randle/ObiT pairing (which i'm not fond of).  Whole Clips team seems foul prone (though i haven't checked if that's true).
Batum is very good at double teams (Reg Jax too), so Randle needs to be aware or that.

Knix really need a W before heading on the Road.  Another Home L would be demoralizing.
Teams have nearly the same record, but Clips sans their star tandem.
Title: Normal as Fuk...
Post by: lesterluv on January 23, 2022, 11:09:11 AM
rofl....

2,500 DEAD HAMSTERS, 1 TESTS POSITIVE

https://www.independent.co.uk/asia/china/hong-kong-hamsters-covid-positive-culled-b1998905.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/asia/china/hong-kong-hamsters-covid-positive-culled-b1998905.html)

(https://marlabuchanan13.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/crazy-christmas-gifts-taxidermy-guinea-pig-comb-accessory.jpg)

Yet HK leader still blames the hamsters as outbreak spreads

Lam said that cases involving the Delta variant were also rising because of the hamster outbreak.

"I understand that pet owners are unhappy ... the biggest public interest is to control the pandemic," Lam said.
 
But the public is saying Enough is Enough! protest actions grow.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-01-21/hong-kong-hamsters-being-rescued-in-defiance-of-covid-cull-order (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-01-21/hong-kong-hamsters-being-rescued-in-defiance-of-covid-cull-order)
Title: Normal as Fuk...
Post by: lesterluv on January 23, 2022, 11:25:58 AM
of course, despite all these breakouts and lockdowns and animal culls..and thousands of cases...a mortality rate completely different than EVERYWHERE ELSE ON THE PLANET

No Covid deaths have been reported in Chinas current wave

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/21/world/asia/china-zero-covid-policy.html?smid=url-share (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/21/world/asia/china-zero-covid-policy.html?smid=url-share)

**Bo really believes the $%$ they feed him!

*** I do too...I credit the Starburys which still cost less than $20 bucks and provide 99.99% protection against hospitalization and death!

(https://www.sneakerfiles.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/starbury-ii-main.jpg)




Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 23, 2022, 01:17:00 PM
Better start today

Like this starting 5.

Ready for  some Reddish
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 23, 2022, 01:22:11 PM
Tatum now 0-fer his last 20 3's.  And Celts absolutely can't win any close games.  I think they are 5-10 in close games after collapsing v POR, not scoring any points for 7 minutes until some FT's with 30 secs left, and a double digit lead blown.

Always a concern when going with a  rookie coach
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 23, 2022, 01:32:36 PM
Getting gory for the Bulls.  Ball and Caruso out for 6-8 weeks.  Zach has been resting his knee.  Tough times.  Is Coby White ready?


C White has played the last seventeen games (has missed 18 this year)

32 minutes per

48/41/87 shooting

Title: Reddish
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 23, 2022, 01:41:12 PM
Like I said - Cam attacks the hoop.

The athleticism playing with Toppin and Quickley is scary
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 23, 2022, 02:00:11 PM
Batum with 2 nice mid 2Q doubles forcing turnovers by Randle.
Then hounds Randle far out.
Followed by getting all over RJB leading to another turnover.
Impressive.
Title: Infuriating
Post by: carlos123 on January 23, 2022, 02:11:54 PM
We're playing with a hot second unit, our lead hovering around 10-13.

So, what does coach do?

Yeah, pulls them and brings back a bunch of cold starters with 3-4 min left, and the lead evaporates. Infuriating!

(https://marlabuchanan13.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/crazy-christmas-gifts-taxidermy-guinea-pig-comb-accessory.jpg)

Quote from: Les on January 23, 2022, 11:25:58 AM

**Bo really believes the $%$ they feed him!

Re-education, baby, REEDUCATION!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 23, 2022, 02:23:30 PM
Carlos's knowledge of cause and effect is staggering.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 23, 2022, 02:26:27 PM
RJ has become a VOLUME guy

Big development step.
Title: Thanks Chamaco #2
Post by: carlos123 on January 23, 2022, 03:36:37 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on January 23, 2022, 02:23:30 PM
Carlos's knowledge of cause and effect is staggering.

Thanks for the compliment. I appreciate this kind of comments when they come from you 😁

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLXmBmDeMCTlf9uFgoj6he9DU6OA-_tHBohEDOzbOP7Wi2uKUpHDa1rqGeZXCTpj3S8Uk1-cS7I-L_MrzmxFfUTt1Xw2QY-z_mZtUgGC9wdlN9FGjgbF6r36OHmIayAVAepPy69RNuUfpq_xWb2-eqaI=w626-h570-no?authuser=0)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 23, 2022, 03:37:02 PM
Big ups to AB. The team looks pretty good with a capable PG running it like we had today.

We can survive a handful of Randle TOs if Randle is the only one turning it over.

Hope Mitch is not hurt too bad and he does not have to miss much time.
Title: Threes
Post by: carlos123 on January 23, 2022, 03:39:57 PM
Quote from: Fac on January 23, 2022, 03:37:02 PM
Big ups to AB. The team looks pretty good with a capable PG running it like we had today.

We can survive a handful of Randle TOs if Randle is the only one turning it over.

Hope Mitch is not hurt too bad and he does not have to miss much time.

We always look good when the threes are falling.

King Julius played 40 minutes and RJB 43. Hope they can keep it up tomorrow. Meanwhile, Toppin played 8 minutes and Reddish 5.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 23, 2022, 04:35:34 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 23, 2022, 02:26:27 PM
RJ has become a VOLUME guy

Big development step.

Yeah, this is the look I like. Aggressive. Getting to the line. Being a force to reckon with.

It's when he hangs in the corner and recedes into the woodwork for long stretches that his game seems much more average.

And I don't think it's an accident that when he's more involved on one end, he's more impactful on the other. 14 rebounds.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 23, 2022, 05:10:09 PM
It's not so much TAKE MORE SHOTS.  It's LOOK TO take more shots, within the continuing mindset of taking GOOD shots.  And in time the volume will increase.  Someone has gotten into Barrett's mind effectively.  Onward!

And nice game, Julius.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 23, 2022, 05:16:33 PM
I think Reddish will earn himself minutes and that will help with energy and continuity of defense.

I hope we do not start Kemba tomorrow.
Title: Rotations
Post by: chipstern on January 23, 2022, 05:36:32 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 23, 2022, 03:39:57 PM
Quote from: Fac on January 23, 2022, 03:37:02 PM
Big ups to AB. The team looks pretty good with a capable PG running it like we had today.

We can survive a handful of Randle TOs if Randle is the only one turning it over.

Hope Mitch is not hurt too bad and he does not have to miss much time.

We always look good when the threes are falling.

King Julius played 40 minutes and RJB 43. Hope they can keep it up tomorrow. Meanwhile, Toppin played 8 minutes and Reddish 5.

Yes, took out the second team when they were playing well. 

Mmmmm...a lot of minutes.  Julius and RJ were a dynamic duo.  Ride 'em cowboy. 

23-24

See if we have enough gas in the tank for the Cavs [28-19], a BIG STEP UP IN WEIGHT CLASS from the Clippers [23-25]

We did win, right?  Better 3 point shooting.  Better FT shooting.  Better # of assisted shots. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 23, 2022, 05:38:52 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 23, 2022, 05:16:33 PM
I think Reddish will earn himself minutes and that will help with energy and continuity of defense.

I hope we do not start Kemba tomorrow.

Reddish will get some of Grimes' minutes, some of Fournier, some of Burks. 

Look forward to see Reddish out on the floor at the same time as RJ. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 23, 2022, 06:30:33 PM
That was better, enjoyed, nice to see Julius, head on relatively tight, bouncing back.
His end game, last few minutes, still pretty horrendous though.
A couple turnovers. The three-shot foul on Morris.
The held ball that became Clipper ball.
A lazy long missed jumper.
Probably not good enough to win games against the types of teams we are going to see this week.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 23, 2022, 07:26:20 PM
http://empiresportsmedia.com/new-york-knicks/knicks-mitchell-robinson-offers-great-injury-news-after-leaving-game-vs-clippers/ (http://empiresportsmedia.com/new-york-knicks/knicks-mitchell-robinson-offers-great-injury-news-after-leaving-game-vs-clippers/)
Title: Boston news
Post by: carlos123 on January 23, 2022, 07:34:51 PM
Jayson Tatum back with a vengeance in a big win at Miami:

10 rebounds, 7 Assists and 51 points! with 9-14 threes in 32 minutes.

Now I understand why Chamaco, in his infinite wisdom, told us all from the very beginning that he was a good choice for Boston when everybody else, including Bank, were shocked, shocked! that they did not keep their No. 1 to select Markelle Fultz as their forever point guard 🤪
Title: not with current coach
Post by: carlos123 on January 23, 2022, 07:39:47 PM
Quote from: Fac on January 23, 2022, 07:26:20 PM
http://empiresportsmedia.com/new-york-knicks/knicks-mitchell-robinson-offers-great-injury-news-after-leaving-game-vs-clippers/ (http://empiresportsmedia.com/new-york-knicks/knicks-mitchell-robinson-offers-great-injury-news-after-leaving-game-vs-clippers/)

"If he is forced to miss any time, expect Noel and Taj Gibson to pick up the majority of the slack. Even rookie Jericho Sims could get involved."
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 23, 2022, 09:22:57 PM
There has been mention of Reddish playing some FOUR

And also some folks wishing to see he and RJ together.

So.....

there is another option (Julius at the 5)
Title: Re: Boston news
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 23, 2022, 09:33:31 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 23, 2022, 07:34:51 PM
Jayson Tatum back with a vengeance in a big win at Miami:

10 rebounds, 7 Assists and 51 points! with 9-14 threes in 32 minutes.

Now I understand why Chamaco, in his infinite wisdom, told us all from the very beginning that he was a good choice for Boston when everybody else, including Bank, were shocked, shocked! that they did not keep their No. 1 to select Markelle Fultz as their forever point guard 🤪

Ball.
Title: Re: Boston news
Post by: carlos123 on January 23, 2022, 10:07:32 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on January 23, 2022, 09:33:31 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 23, 2022, 07:34:51 PM
Jayson Tatum back with a vengeance in a big win at Miami:

10 rebounds, 7 Assists and 51 points! with 9-14 threes in 32 minutes.

Now I understand why Chamaco, in his infinite wisdom, told us all from the very beginning that he was a good choice for Boston when everybody else, including Bank, were shocked, shocked! that they did not keep their No. 1 to select Markelle Fultz as their forever point guard 🤪

Ball.

I know, Chamaco, believe me, I know...

But I was just following your technique, that is, you wait until nobody remembers what was said by whom... and then you tell us that you were the only one that "told us so". This time, I just did it for you, only a little ahead of schedule 😁
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLWDWClzFZzeXctKJuxzagN1j46e6zq2EAoiDDmPh038jX2OPXG_5aykUoA1OBqeSIavC_nq-S_O1Q2hSePOp0ur9dZQcXJ7dXFFzjfZv9Cmigq01nVn4CLQyov_QFrvbrz_63zEXtCipUQmqm7n1UkT=w626-h570-no?authuser=0)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 23, 2022, 10:42:02 PM
Stay consistent.

Had Boston drafting Ball to be their leader.  Simple stuff.   Some here like to throw Fultz in my face because I have defended him but they get the Boston-Fultz connection to me all wrong.

Thus far Celts have won bupkus with Tatum.  Correct?  And he has at times been considered both diva and chucker?.

Jut checking.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 23, 2022, 11:10:04 PM
RJB easily our best 2-way player.

Reddish a pretty skinny dude to play PF.  And with Julius at C?
I really don't see it.  And don't think we will.

Morris & Bled were nonentities.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 23, 2022, 11:24:36 PM
Talking about reffing recently. The thing I find inconsistent. 

If a 3 point shooter goes straight up and down but kicks out his leg a couple feet and the defender makes contact with that forward leg, it often is an offensive foul now.   However if a player shoots a trey and lands 2 or 3 feet forward, often well within the 3 point line, and the defender makes the exact same close out and there's contact, it's a defensive foul. 

Imo, in both cases the defender should be able to closeout within two feet or so of the shooter and if the offender chooses to come forward 2 or 3 feet on his shot, then he is encroaching on the legitimate defensive space.  And I'd usually go with a no call.  Maybe even an O-foul at times.

Players are going to learn not to kick a leg forward, but to land forward with both feet to get foul calls and 3 FT's.  I'd argue it's already occurring.  Not saying a shooter has to go straight up and down, but touching down 2 feet or more forward resulting in closeout contact (especially tangled feet) shouldn't be rewarded. 

Fournier is pretty good at this.  Watch him on 3-point closeouts frequently land with his entire sneaker inside the 3 point line. The NBA tends to be very anal in its rule interpretations.  Such as giving a team a delay of game warning when a player actually speeds things up by tossing a loose ball to the ref.  Or much of the way the clear path rule is nonsensical applied.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 24, 2022, 08:47:56 AM

Reddish a pretty skinny dude to play PF.  And with Julius at C?
I really don't see it.  And don't think we will.

Mostly an emergency plan.  In lieu of using Sims.

Can we keep 2 of our 3 bigs healthy?
Title: Normal as Fuk ya up the A$$$, LOL
Post by: lesterluv on January 24, 2022, 11:05:33 AM
they are gonna love this down at the Olympic Village...

China brings back anal swab testing for COVID two weeks before Winter Olympics

https://nypost.com/2022/01/21/china-brings-back-anal-swab-testing-for-covid-ahead-of-winter-olympics/ (https://nypost.com/2022/01/21/china-brings-back-anal-swab-testing-for-covid-ahead-of-winter-olympics/)

(https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/NINTCHDBPICT000632870798.jpg?w=620)
Title: Normal as Fuk!!!
Post by: lesterluv on January 24, 2022, 11:12:17 AM
Look out - last time it provoked popular and diplomatic outrage!!

China forced to tell citizens they won't end up waddling like penguins from anal Covid tests
https://www.the-sun.com/news/2247637/china-video-waddling-penguins-anal-covid/ (https://www.the-sun.com/news/2247637/china-video-waddling-penguins-anal-covid/)

China used anal Covid swabs on US diplomats sparking State Department fury
https://www.the-sun.com/news/us-news/2403361/china-anal-covid-swabs-us-diplomats-error/ (https://www.the-sun.com/news/us-news/2403361/china-anal-covid-swabs-us-diplomats-error/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 24, 2022, 12:21:44 PM
http://theknickswall.com/kemba-walker-time-knicks-could-be-coming-end/ (http://theknickswall.com/kemba-walker-time-knicks-could-be-coming-end/)

He is wrong about Burks.
Title: You need to read, Chamaco
Post by: carlos123 on January 24, 2022, 08:15:54 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on January 23, 2022, 10:42:02 PM
Stay consistent.

Had Boston drafting Ball to be their leader.  Simple stuff.   Some here like to throw Fultz in my face because I have defended him but they get the Boston-Fultz connection to me all wrong.

Thus far Celts have won bupkus with Tatum.  Correct?  And he has at times been considered both diva and chucker?.

Jut checking.

Chamaco, my point was that "Now I understand why Chamaco, in his infinite wisdom, told us all from the very beginning that he (Tatum) was a good choice for Boston when everybody else, including Bank, were shocked, shocked! that they did not keep their No. 1 to select Markelle Fultz as their forever point guard 🤪"

Got it now? You're welcome.

Anyway, I just did your usual thing, using your technique ahead of schedule. You will probably be doing this five years down the road, when nobody remembers who said what, probably including yourself, now that Bank seems to have left the forum.

BTW, What happened to Bank?
Title: COOOOAAAAAAACH!!!
Post by: carlos123 on January 24, 2022, 08:40:56 PM
C'mon Thibs. Randle needs a break.

Bring Toppin already!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 24, 2022, 08:41:06 PM
Classic sequence of defensive ineptitude at 4:32 in 3rd quarter allowing K Love a wide open 3...after he had hit one shortly before that...and shortly before that.....

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 24, 2022, 09:29:02 PM
We can deal with Randle as one of our two weakest defenders on the court, not one of our three weakest defenders.

The IQ Grimes RJ Randle Noel lineup looks like it has some potential.

Burks looked gassed today. I was actually wanting to see him pulled for Reddish who I thought could help.

RJ was some missed FTs and a missed 3 from carrying it all despite the mishugas.

A bunch of Cavs players looked good.

Can love be the blueprint for Randle in the last years of his deal?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 25, 2022, 12:17:30 AM
That last play really sucked!

Sending the ball out to Randle by the logo?

"On the final play, Thibodeau said the Cavaliers took the corner 3s away and gave the Knicks very little to work with."

We didn't need a 3.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 25, 2022, 08:08:31 AM
Mixed  bag for RJ

An impressive 8-12 on 2 point attempts

5-10 free throws.  Can we ever be confident he goes 2-2?

What happened with Reddish?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 25, 2022, 11:59:35 AM
the free throws hurt

Julius' second half play hurt

Quickley's (up) - chucking hurt

Reddish is SITUATIONAL, lol

Let's give him a week or two to learn our plays before we worry about his lack of minutes. We don't have very many so it shouldn't take long. He got to see our END GAME SPECIAL so that's out of the way. (Everybody run around like the HK Hamster-catcher is after you until Randle gets the ball as close to half court as possible)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 25, 2022, 12:29:48 PM
Well, bad luck with IQ. We needed that game and he was ice cold.

But Julius is becoming an enigma. Has a real penchant for making bad plays...just at the worst times. Deadly combo. Kid often brandishes stats to show Randle's positive impact, but that's the kind of thing that doesn't come up in the boxscore.

Increasingly he has defensive lapses that must be due to fatigue or just lack of focus. Either way it's not the kind of thing you see or wanna see in one of your best players. But there it is.             

In the silver lining department...Barrett. Missed fouls or no, something good is going on.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 25, 2022, 12:40:36 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 24, 2022, 09:29:02 PM
We can deal with Randle as one of our two weakest defenders on the court, not one of our three weakest defenders.

Last year, NYK started 4 defenders around Randle and had ​terrific team defense.

And even Randle was a useful defender, especially near the rim.


Quote
The IQ Grimes RJ Randle Noel lineup looks like it has some potential.

A PG and another defender.  I'm in.

Actually I think I offered that up 2+ weeks ago, and then Thibs used it one game and it was a disaster.  But I still like that config.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 25, 2022, 05:16:07 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 21, 2022, 03:26:57 PM
And your point about Julius is obvious and concerning. He's fucked up. Needs some help. Never seen him so psychologically fragile. If I were the Knicks and there's some hoops guru that might help, I'd fly the man in on the company jet.

So fragile he had Dean Wade on the block and could drive left to the hoop for the score or the foul and instead waits til theres no time for RJ to do anything but catch and shoot.   This guy is TOO fragile.  Last year he would've taken the ball to the hoop.  This year he is fighting that tendency and he ends up thinking too much.  The game moves faster than Randle thinks.   There's a reason he is a bully ball PF not a cerebral PG.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 25, 2022, 05:20:30 PM
Last night was a good setting for post up  play.

But we aren't flexible like that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 25, 2022, 05:21:36 PM
What would Cavs have countered with if we went Quickly Barrett Randle Taj Noel?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 25, 2022, 10:52:29 PM
1st half, Cavs pushed the ball and Knix transition D was, as usual, lacking.
Okoro and Garland lighting it up on the break.
Rondo got hot 2Q.

Cavs announcers are pretty bad, though they seemed to be having a good time calling the game.  Toppings hits an early 3 and Austin Carr says that he's known as a shooter.  Hmm.  Cavs announcers did chuckle over Knix poor D and tendency to chuck lots of 3's.  But then the halftime crew talks about how both teams are good defensively.  Campy Russell one of the halftime guys.  Brad Daugherty, part of the 3-man game announcers, is okay but kind of bland and talks in generalities.
Mostly the issue is Austin Carr sounding like your old drunk uncle.

Title: Dallas Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on January 26, 2022, 12:38:08 AM
They really got beat by Golden State, by 38 points!
Everyone with an atrocious game, especially KP.
Like Kamster the genius Hamster (I mean this in a good way) says:

KP TOSSES SALADS IN DALLAS
That is really genius!

Now, GS is a REALLY scary team, and they dont even have Draymond back. Once they are all healthy, they look unbeatable from where I stand.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 26, 2022, 06:22:07 AM
Hardaway just broke a toe.  DAL had a 6 game win streak, broken by the Knix, then won 4 more.  Their two other recent losses since that 10-1 streak were to PHX and GSW.  A stellar 11-3 January with 3 weak teams to go.
Surprisingly their D has been good, holding 10 of their last 15 opponents under 100.  With two others just 101 & 102.
DAL has looked mediocre to me, but I only saw the Knix loss and part of the GSW debacle. 

KZ 20 & 8, w/ 2 assists, 2 blocks, 5 FT's in just 30 mins.  A PER over 23.
I think they're smart to keep his minutes lowish.
Both Luka and KZ shooting 29% on 3;s.
Just 33% as a team.  Bad for 25th.
Not sure how they are managing good D.
Just dropped WCS for Grand Marquise Chriss, a better defender.
Title: What Hath Leon Wrought?
Post by: chipstern on January 26, 2022, 01:48:02 PM
Hints

Portents...of deals, Deals...DEALS

Not feeling any of it

I suspect we simply tread water until Derrick Rose comes back. 

Ryan Arcidiacono PG   27   6' 3"   195 lbs Villanova $3,000,000

RJ Barrett    SG   21   6' 6"   214 lbs Duke $8,623,920

Cam Reddish   SF   22   6' 8"   217 lbs Duke   $4,670,160

Alec Burks SG   30   6' 6"   214 lbs Colorado $9,536,000

Evan Fournier    SG   29   6' 6"   205 lbs   $17,000,000

Taj Gibson    C   36   6' 9"   232 lbs USC   $4,910,000

Quentin Grimes   SG   21   6' 4"   210 lbs Houston    $2,168,760

Miles McBride   PG   21   6' 1"   195 lbs West Virginia   $925,258

Nerlens Noel   C   27   6' 11" 220 lbs Kentucky   $8,000,000

Immanuel Quickley   SG   22   6' 3"   190 lbs Kentucky   $2,210,640

Julius Randle   PF   27   6' 8"   250 lbs Kentucky   $21,780,000

Mitchell Robinson  C   23   7' 0"   240 lbs   $1,802,057

Derrick Rose   PG   33   6' 2"   200 lbs Memphis   $13,445,120

Luka Samanic   PF   22   6' 10"   227 lbs      $2,959,080

Jericho Sims   C   23   6' 9"   250 lbs   Texas   

Obi Toppin     PF   23   6' 9"   220 lbs   Dayton   $5,105,160

Kemba Walker   PG   31   6' 0"   184 lbs   Connecticut   $8,729,020

REALLY?

Which of these cats represents a tradeable asset?

All of them?

None of them? 

Meanwhile we are what, near the bottom of the league in terms of pace and assists, our two purest PGs, Arcidiacono & McBride, are nailed to the pine, and Thibs asserts that you can never have enough wings.

Barrett
Burks
Fournier
Grimes
Reddish

K
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 26, 2022, 01:55:36 PM
they're all tradeable.   A triumph considering how many untradeable guys this team has employed in recent vintage.

Me I'm trying to find someone to take Fournier and Walker off my hands as the grand "help Julius not shoulder the whole load" experiment has failed spectacularly.
Title: Sweetners
Post by: chipstern on January 26, 2022, 02:07:11 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 26, 2022, 01:55:36 PM
they're all tradeable.   A triumph considering how many untradeable guys this team has employed in recent vintage.

Me I'm trying to find someone to take Fournier and Walker off my hands as the grand "help Julius not shoulder the whole load" experiment has failed spectacularly.

Probably need to sweeten the deal with some draft assets?

Don't see anyone biting. 

Who knows. 
Title: Re: Sweetners
Post by: Kam on January 26, 2022, 04:01:51 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 26, 2022, 02:07:11 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 26, 2022, 01:55:36 PM
they're all tradeable.   A triumph considering how many untradeable guys this team has employed in recent vintage.

Me I'm trying to find someone to take Fournier and Walker off my hands as the grand "help Julius not shoulder the whole load" experiment has failed spectacularly.

Probably need to sweeten the deal with some draft assets?

Don't see anyone biting. 

Who knows.

If there is any team that can fashion a deal with assets and players on tradeable contracts, it's the Knicks.  That was one of the reasons some have praised the FA signings and draft day trades the last two seasons.  We collected a lot of ammo.   We can either keep our powder dry or fire some of these slugs.

Let's go Leon.  When life gives you Mayo make Mayonaisse!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 26, 2022, 05:28:30 PM
Fournier for Hardaway.
Both streak shooters and not good defenders.
I prefer Tim Jr. for his transition hooping and he's less prone to disappear/space out.

DAL gets a replacement shooter.
Play Reddish and get Hardaway back next year.
Believe Tim Jr has a longer contract than FourEva.

Somewhat of a sideways move.

How about ObiT, Noel and Kemba for Jerami Grant?
Gives DET a young prospect, a defensive C and a gimpy PG to mentor Cade.
Knix get a stretch 4 who can man the 3 as well.
Nice multi-tooled contributor.
Consolidation upgrade trade for NYK.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 26, 2022, 06:09:09 PM
O hell no to the Hardaway idea.

Third time not the charm.
Title: Re: What Hath Leon Wrought?
Post by: elephant on January 26, 2022, 06:17:51 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 26, 2022, 01:48:02 PM
Hints

Portents...of deals, Deals...DEALS

Not feeling any of it

I suspect we simply tread water until Derrick Rose comes back. 


Thinking about Rose a lot lately. Would the season have been wildly different with a healthy Rose?

No. But I do think a few of the losses would have been wins. And will be the difference for getting in the playoffs.

He can't come back too soon.
Title: Say whaaat?
Post by: carlos123 on January 26, 2022, 06:23:34 PM
Quote from: BoZizzley on January 26, 2022, 06:22:07 AM

KZ 20 & 8, w/ 2 assists, 2 blocks, 5 FT's in just 30 mins.  A PER over 23.
I think they're smart to keep his minutes lowish.
Both Luka and KZ shooting 29% on 3;s.

I do not know if BoZ was trying to "refute" my post about KP disastrous game yesterday, but his stats are a little outta whack. Here are the real ones:

Mavericks
STARTERS          MIN     FG      3PT   FT   OREB   DREB   REB   AST   STL   BLK   TO   PF   +/-     PTS
K. Porzingis C       25   4-15     1-7    0-0       1        6        7     1      1       2       3     2    -17        9

Ok, he got the blocks right. 😁
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 26, 2022, 06:24:23 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 25, 2022, 05:16:07 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 21, 2022, 03:26:57 PM
And your point about Julius is obvious and concerning. He's fucked up. Needs some help. Never seen him so psychologically fragile. If I were the Knicks and there's some hoops guru that might help, I'd fly the man in on the company jet.

So fragile he had Dean Wade on the block and could drive left to the hoop for the score or the foul and instead waits til theres no time for RJ to do anything but catch and shoot.   This guy is TOO fragile.  Last year he would've taken the ball to the hoop.  This year he is fighting that tendency and he ends up thinking too much.  The game moves faster than Randle thinks.   There's a reason he is a bully ball PF not a cerebral PG.

"The game moves fast than Randle thinks." Wow, that's a perfect way of describing what I'm seeing. Too much thinking and thinking too slow.

Sometimes, it seems to be about fatigue. Other times, it just feels like he's been snakebitten and has lost faith in his (considerable) mojo.

Either way, he's gotta snap out of it.

In related matters, when was the last time (and I may be forgetting something) that the Knicks fell behind by double digits and came back with Randle on the court? Our comebacks usually arise with much more activity and energy on the floor.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 26, 2022, 06:57:09 PM
Which of these cats represents a tradeable asset?


As cap fillers?   Anyone that does not detract too much from the W-L rate given who we are adding.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 26, 2022, 06:59:33 PM
Thinking about Rose a lot lately. Would the season have been wildly different with a healthy Rose?


You think VEGAS may have factored in Rose's potential health woes when setting their NYK win totals?

Pro'lly
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 26, 2022, 07:00:50 PM
O hell no to the Hardaway idea.


Assinine..
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 26, 2022, 07:05:58 PM
Alternate call again available for tonight's game

ESPN 730 pm
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 26, 2022, 07:58:50 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 26, 2022, 07:00:50 PM
O hell no to the Hardaway idea.


Assinine..

You were always his advocate.

He didn't work out the first time. And he didn't work out the 2nd time.

But, uh, next time will be different!





Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 26, 2022, 08:08:23 PM
we are in agreement

I like Fournier.  You commit to a guy and dont move off it so fast
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 26, 2022, 08:39:38 PM
Ah, okay, sorry, misunderstood.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 26, 2022, 08:40:03 PM
And yes to holding on to Fournier.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 27, 2022, 01:18:51 AM
You might be able to hide Fournier with four really good players around him. He is an eighth or ninth man on a decent team.

Kemba is flat out unplayable and probably untradeable. The league must be shooting at least 60 percent against him and he does not make it back on the other end.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 27, 2022, 07:51:27 AM
"Sometimes your star players have to make plays that aren't there"

- NBA Radio's Scalabrine on Randle - and the Knicks in general

Also -

"Fournier and Walker, guys like that should be getting 8-10 open looks a game off of the doubles your star creates"
Title: Rokas Jokubaitis
Post by: chipstern on January 27, 2022, 09:21:26 AM
Rokas Jokubaitis

While Jokubaitis star in Europe has been shining brighter and brighter and right now it will be a shocker if he does not win the EuroLeague Rising Star award, the New York Knicks have been paying attention. And he has been watching them back as well.

Rokas Jokubaitis

While Jokubaitis star in Europe has been shining brighter and brighter and right now it will be a shocker if he does not win the EuroLeague Rising Star award, the New York Knicks have been paying attention. And he has been watching them back as well.

Sometimes my Summer League coaches text me to see how I am doing. They reach out to my agent and my agents in the USA. I think few staff members from the Knicks are coming in February. I will be in better touch with them. 

I am watching their games whenever I have a chance. The schedule does not allow it all the time. I follow them and I know what is happening. I keep in contact with a few players and rookies that I played with in Summer League. I know what is happening on the team.
Title: Ghastly
Post by: chipstern on January 27, 2022, 09:54:57 AM
That was ghastly on so many levels. 

Least ways, Thibs finally relented when Burks was 1-8, and 0-2 from the FT line, and gave Reddish some burn, as the bench players could not close the deal, but the Knicks were up 29-18 in the fourth, admittedly a deceptive stat, as the Heat were up around 30 at points in the third quarter. 

Was proud of Obi in significant minutes, a team leading +20, again, with Miami safely ahead, finally begunning to zero in on his three pointers. 

We were 11-17 from the FT line, compared to Miami's 20-22.

Time to give our second unit more meaningful minutes, and not just automatically return the starting five with six minutes to go in the second quarter. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 27, 2022, 10:51:18 AM
Aron Banes...crazy!

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/33153946/the-mysterious-fall-harrowing-story-nba-center (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/33153946/the-mysterious-fall-harrowing-story-nba-center)
Title: The Shoe Fits
Post by: chipstern on January 27, 2022, 11:05:04 AM
Jeff Van Gundy On How These Knicks Are Broken

There have been plenty of times throughout the year to show that they work well together

I just do not know how they continue on like this.

That is the definition of insanity

Seeing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result
Title: Macri
Post by: Kam on January 27, 2022, 11:18:02 AM
There is no bigger fan of Tom Thibodeau than Jeff Van Gundy. None. Zero. Not his parents. Not his best friends. No one.

So when Van Gundy, who was calling the national broadcast of this game for ESPN, made multiple references to the need for New York to change its starting lineup, at one point calling the decision to stick with the current five-man grouping "the definition of insanity,"  you know things have gotten bad.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 27, 2022, 11:25:59 AM
Thibs is stubborn as FUKTM

If the whole world sees the obvious, expect him to double down!
Title: Normal as Fuk...
Post by: lesterluv on January 27, 2022, 11:27:21 AM
U.S. Diplomats say HELL NO to Anal Swabs. You ain't sticking that up my wife's ass. Let us outa here!

The US diplomatic mission in China has formally requested the State Department grant American diplomats "authorized departure," allowing them and their families to leave the country amid increasingly strict Covid-19 containment measures

https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/26/china/china-us-embassy-authorize-departure-intl-hnk/index.html (https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/26/china/china-us-embassy-authorize-departure-intl-hnk/index.html)


**** OT: Bo's Hardaway & Grant trade suggestions certainly earn him an oversize ANAL SWAB
Title: YIKES
Post by: chipstern on January 27, 2022, 11:42:08 AM
Quote from: Kam on January 27, 2022, 11:18:02 AM
There is no bigger fan of Tom Thibodeau than Jeff Van Gundy. None. Zero. Not his parents. Not his best friends. No one.

So when Van Gundy, who was calling the national broadcast of this game for ESPN, made multiple references to the need for New York to change its starting lineup, at one point calling the decision to stick with the current five-man grouping "the definition of insanity,"  you know things have gotten bad.

Afraid so. 

And no one loves Julius more than Thibs, but the coach appears to have hitched his wagon to a falling star.  And Thibs remains committed to the notion of Julius as a kick out facilitator, rather than has a brute low post option. 

The defensive stratgagem, initiated by Hawks' coach Nate McMillan in last year's playoffs, seems to have been much imitated league, and Thibs' response seems to this observer, as great a fan of Thibs and Julius as JVG to TT, inflexible. 

Waiting for the doubles to kick in, and tasking Julius to kick out, IS NOT WORKING. 

Of course, OF COURSE, not having a point guard does not help. 

I have great affection for Kemba, but he is giving us nothing. 

I respect Burks, and he is a willing passer, but again, not a PG. 

And Thibs stubbornly sticks to the Julius kick out to stationary targets, instead of initiating motion and cutters and attacking the paint with multiple cutters. 

As someone pointed out in one of last night's broadcasts, the Heat had a very specific startegy for bringing the doubles on JR, and for denying the Knicks driving lanes and keeping them out of the paint, making us live and die by the three. 

It hurts me to see Julius overthinking things, passing up close range shots in favor of kick outs, often in mid-glide, leading, predictably, to turnovers, and keeping him from attaining any sort of rhythm and confidence. 

Finally, McBride is raw, and he has been struggling with his shot, but he is every inch the dog Grimes is on D, and, again, as someone pointed out, in limited minutes, has posted a 7-to-1 assist-to-turnover ratio. 

And while I know this is not a tenable option...

Toppin-Reddish-Grimes-Quickley-McBride

Or

Sims-Toppin-Reddish-Grimes-Quickley

Or

Robinson-Randle-RJ-Grimes-Quickley

Or

WHO THE FUCK KNOWS

But as presently constituted, and given Thibs stubborn--to put it politely--refusal to go with the pups and empower their energy with meaningful minutes, we are trending towards the draft lottery, and a trade deadline fire sale, if such options even exist. 

Absent Derrick Rose, our starting unit is sleepwalking, save perhaps for RJ.  And even he, he of the clanged free throws, well, not a good look. 
Title: Afraid So
Post by: chipstern on January 27, 2022, 11:43:17 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on January 27, 2022, 11:25:59 AM
Thibs is stubborn as FUKTM

If the whole world sees the obvious, expect him to double down!

Expect a course reversal soon. 

The ship be sinking. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 27, 2022, 11:52:53 AM
I certainly hope so....
Title: Re: The Shoe Fits
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 27, 2022, 12:04:27 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 27, 2022, 11:05:04 AM
Jeff Van Gundy On How These Knicks Are Broken

There have been plenty of times throughout the year to show that they work well together

I just do not know how they continue on like this.

That is the definition of insanity

Seeing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result

Barrett's surge seems to have totally changed Julius Randle.  Good teams have layers complementing each other.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 27, 2022, 12:25:00 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on January 27, 2022, 11:25:59 AM
Thibs is stubborn as FUKTM

If the whole world sees the obvious, expect him to double down!

Yeah but what do we make of his decision to dump Kemba after just 20 games?  How does stubbornness play into that decision?  I can only conclude that Thibs was anti-Walker from the start and that there is some friction between he and Leon.  Otherwise I don't get how Thibs can be stubborn as a mule but also willing to swap Walker for Burks after such a small sample size.

And IF....  Thibs has been anti-Walker from the start then you know so has Randle.  If neither Thibs or Randle truly bought-in to the Walker move then something within the organization is rotten. 
Title: REBOOT?
Post by: chipstern on January 27, 2022, 12:28:08 PM
I have the sinking feeling that Julius might very well be outward bound. 

Not to mention Nerlens, Evan, Alec, Kemba....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 27, 2022, 12:42:21 PM
Pretty awful game.  Knix starters look like strangers.  I can't even identify what the Knix are trying to do on most possessions.  Don't we have anybody who can run a PnR with Mitch or Julius.?  MIA was playing small, NYK should have been ramming the ball inside and lobbing to Mitch.  Just no continuity from the Knix.  Too many contested shots with nobody under to rebound, along with turnovers.  And the transition D remains cringeworthy.

JVG was good, especially 1st half where he said exactly what I was thinking on many plays ("Randle passed up an open shot for a contested one", etc).

I've given up going through games an identifying defensive miscues.  Hope I've convinced folks that Burks dies on screens and is poor on rotations.  And Fournier is often just a weak link on D. 

MIA game, it seemed more RJB mistakes than usual.  One 2Q play, PJ Tuck started coming out to set an elbow screen, but then ducked in, and RJB was confused and weakly doubled the ballhandler, leaving Randle to try to help late.

4 mins left in the 3Q, Herro drives right and as he gets forced towards the basket baseline, Randle realizes the only pass is to his man Tucker in the left corner.  Problem is Tucker never went into the corner, but lurked along the baseline. 
Randle ball watched the Herro drive, and as Randle headed to the corner, jis man cut to the rim. Was comical to see Randle start to the corner as his man went right past him to the rim for a layup.

I'm used to our poor D. But the offense is real ugly these days.  Just amazing how different the energy and vibe is on the 2nd unit compared with the starters.
Title: Word
Post by: chipstern on January 27, 2022, 12:50:32 PM
Just amazing how different the energy and vibe is on the 2nd unit compared with the starters.
Title: Re: Word
Post by: Kam on January 27, 2022, 01:13:07 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 27, 2022, 12:50:32 PM
Just amazing how different the energy and vibe is on the 2nd unit compared with the starters.

New York has been outscored by a total of 69 points over their first quarters, good for the 7th worst mark in basketball. If you think that is bad, they've been outscored by 83 points in third quarters, which is 6th worst. We are not at game four or 14, but game 49. This is what it is.

In the second and fourth quarters, of course, the Knicks play like contenders. They have the ninth best scoring margin of plus 53 in second quarters and the fourth best in fourth quarters, trailing only the Warriors, Suns and Jazz at plus 62.

Summary: Starters suck.  Bench players don't suck.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 27, 2022, 01:23:43 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 27, 2022, 12:42:21 PM


4 mins left in the 3Q, Herro drives right and as he gets forced towards the basket baseline, Randle realizes the only pass is to his man Tucker in the left corner.  Problem is Tucker never went into the corner, but lurked along the baseline. 
Randle ball watched the Herro drive, and as Randle headed to the corner, jis man cut to the rim. Was comical to see Randle start to the corner as his man went right past him to the rim for a layup.



https://twitter.com/i/status/1486749665882255363 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1486749665882255363).  This link shows two Randle defensive lapses.  The second one is the one you described above.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 27, 2022, 01:25:38 PM
Randle apparetnly doesn't want Walker to get the assist so he gives up a wide open shot for a contested one.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1486738524737052675 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1486738524737052675)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 27, 2022, 01:27:21 PM
Randle apparently has become farsighted when coach draws up a play.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FKE02OIX0Agx8fk?format=jpg&name=medium)
Title: Off with his head
Post by: carlos123 on January 27, 2022, 01:45:37 PM
When I first dared, DARED, to say I did not want Thibs coaching this team any more, most here if not all, were against that notion, most eloquently Chief Chip.

I am proud to have been the first. I bet nobody here now would be terribly upset were Thibs let go. And I bet players would feel relieved and ready for a fresh start.

OFF WITH HIS HEAD ALREADY!!!
Title: Helluva way to set an early tone for the game..
Post by: lesterluv on January 27, 2022, 02:01:10 PM
Quote from: Kam on January 27, 2022, 01:25:38 PM
Randle apparetnly doesn't want Walker to get the assist so he gives up a wide open shot for a contested one.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1486738524737052675 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1486738524737052675)

And he apparently doesn't want an assist himself as both RJ and Fournier are open as FUKTM

Thibs should have yanked him right after this...a time-out and toungelashing at the very least

Fans are sick of it.
Teammates are sick of it.
Basta Ya!


* the only question is see what ya can get now or save him for the Spida Mitchell-type summer time move? I'm leaning toward the former which I think is STUPID, but covid has impaired my willingness to delay satisfaction and the in-season move would allow me to enjoy more OBIMINUTES RIGHT NOW!

** that kid is so fun to watch and going to be VERY VERY good, massive D improvement from year one, no more a liability then lol, Top Two Way Player, has genuine MIDAS TOUCH AROUND DA RIM, get him in there and let him WORK ON SHIT

**** Can you imagine if he were given Barrett leash? lol lol..here are two or three a couple a bunch of twenty-plus-plus Barrett shooting nights ..LICENSE TO CLANK INDEED: 2-15, 4-15, 4-19, 4-14, 7-21, 4-14, 5-18, 5-14, 3-13, 1-9, 2-11, 2-10, 6-18, 4-13, 2-14, 5-17, 3-13, 1-9, 4-13, 2-12, 4-15, 4-15,....that's just a sample from last season and this, would have been far too painful to revisit year one as well
Title: Re: The Shoe Fits
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 27, 2022, 03:26:57 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 27, 2022, 12:04:27 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 27, 2022, 11:05:04 AM
Jeff Van Gundy On How These Knicks Are Broken

There have been plenty of times throughout the year to show that they work well together

I just do not know how they continue on like this.

That is the definition of insanity

Seeing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result

Barrett's surge seems to have totally changed Julius Randle.  Good teams have layers complementing each other.

I think my cousin meant players.  But layers works, somewhat.

On Thibs, one NBA Radio guy at least has him not lasting past All Star break next season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 27, 2022, 03:28:43 PM
Me?  I still think we have a post deadline run to playoffs in us and I dont see Thibs leaving with a chance at three appearances straight
Title: Don't Commence Patting Yourself On The Back Quite So Vigorously, Senor Bolivar
Post by: chipstern on January 27, 2022, 04:54:15 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 27, 2022, 01:45:37 PM
When I first dared, DARED, to say I did not want Thibs coaching this team any more, most here if not all, were against that notion, most eloquently Chief Chip.

I am proud to have been the first. I bet nobody here now would be terribly upset were Thibs let go. And I bet players would feel relieved and ready for a fresh start.

OFF WITH HIS HEAD ALREADY!!!

NONSENSE

Number One, I have issues with Thibs, but letting him go will not facilitate success but further chaos. 

Number Two, giving you the benefit of the doubt, let's assume, quite rightly, that you are not a moron, but have a rather pronounced sense of humor, as evidenced by your stubborn insistance on the efficacy of a career white bread scrub as the answer to the question no one has broached.  Never mind, genius, that firing Thibs would not necessarily engender a gold rush of talented coaches to flock to the shit storm that is the NYC Fan Base.  Having said THAT, worth remembering that the Knicks fired Don Nelson and replaced him with assistant Jeff Van Gundy, which worked out okay.  But then, HOWEVER, Nellie's sin, was to try and write Patrick Ewing out of the narrative.  DUH. 

Number Three, in 2020-2021, everything Leon & Thibs touched, turned to gold.  In 2021-2022, many of their decisons have come back to bite us on the ass.  Julius is in a dark place, playing well below his talent level, seemingly damned if he does, damned if he don't, miscast as a ballet dancer, point forward, when he is actually an offensive tackle power forward, passing up shots to as Thibs might have it, "Make plays."  Kemba was a sentimental reach that most of us applauded, and which has blown up in our face.  Nerlens can't stay healthy.  Burks is a sixth man tasked with being the main man, for which he is miscast. 

Taj has been a pro's pro. And short of going down for two months, Rose has been a solid sender, and A LEADER, and it is that leadership which we most sorely miss.    

Number Four, while everyone, including me, is freaking the fuck out, it is USEFUL TO REMEMBER, when you are congragulating yourself for being in the front lines calling for Thibs head, that Coach's ' stubborn streak and quirky rotations notwithstanding, WE HAVE A SOLID CORE OF YOUTH, and Thibs has been developing them.  Under Thibs' watch, we have seen a coming of age of Mitchell [C], Obi [PF], RJ [SF], Grimes [SG] and IQ [PG], which in case you haven't noticed, IS A TENABLE ROTATIONAL QUINTET.  And while we all lambast Thibs for sticking with his vets, when our puppies get an opportunity, Jericho and Deuce and Cam have shown solid flashes of talent and tenacity, and you better believe that they are going to get longer looks if our starting five cannot get it together.  We have drafted well, have the likes of a Rokas Jokubaitis on ice, ripening on the vine in Spain, have good draft assets, expiring contract/third year options for Walker, Rose, Gibson, Noel, Burks coming due in 2023.  We also, OF COURSE, have long term commitments to Randle and Fournier...we shall see how THAT plays out.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 27, 2022, 05:25:37 PM
Aside from Randle's woes, what is going on with the offense? Is it really a talent thing? For better ball clubs, it's clear about their strategies to confuse defenses, exploit weakness, so on. For us, it's a mystery. Occasionally we get hot and hold our own. But so often we just look slow, laborious and predictable. 

In the past, there have been Knick squads that suck because, you know, essentially their guys were better than ours. Not wildly complicated. Now it feels...different. Like we're getting much less out of this team than we should.
 
On another note, all year long I thought that our 2nd team would beat the 1st more times than not.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 27, 2022, 05:30:31 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 27, 2022, 05:25:37 PM
Aside from Randle's woes, what is going on with the offense? Is it really a talent thing? For better ball clubs, it's clear about their strategies to confuse defenses, exploit weakness, so on. For us, it's a mystery. Occasionally we get hot and hold our own. But so often we just look slow, laborious and predictable. 

In the past, there have been Knick squads that suck because, you know, essentially their guys were better than ours. Not wildly complicated. Now it feels...different. Like we're getting much less out of this team than we should.
 
On another note, all year long I thought that our 2nd team would beat the 1st more times than not.

Last night in the fourth quarter, Thibs seemed to be telling them that as well.  Least ways, that they were bring
ing an energy and camraderie the first unit could not match. 

ODD
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: FWK00 on January 27, 2022, 05:56:11 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 27, 2022, 05:25:37 PM


In the past, there have been Knick squads that suck because, you know, essentially their guys were better than ours. Not wildly complicated. Now it feels...different. Like we're getting much less out of this team than we should.
 


This is the broader mystery.  The largely unchallenged assertion is that Thibs is a "great" coach.

But the empirical evidence suggests exactly the opposite.  How can a great coach allow Randle to play like a nightly dumpster fire?  There's zero accountability and during timeouts Randle wanders around aimlessly as if Thibs is just discussing dinner plans with the team.

And Van Gundy isn't the only one questioning the insanity of marching out the same dysfunctional unit of -cough- "starters" who don't even act as if they've met before.

What is the point of Thibs' timeouts?  Gatorade break?  The team comes out and F's up whatever was discussed.  Shouldn't a "great" coach kindof realize that nobody's paying attention?

Seems to me the gym-rat meme has played out its shelf-life and reorganizing this roster with some talent and basketball common sense might be more valuable.
Title: Senor Bolivar answers Meshuga Stern
Post by: carlos123 on January 27, 2022, 07:07:18 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 27, 2022, 01:45:37 PM
When I first dared, DARED, to say I did not want Thibs coaching this team any more, most here if not all, were against that notion, most eloquently Chief Chip.

I am proud to have been the first. I bet nobody here now would be terribly upset were Thibs let go. And I bet players would feel relieved and ready for a fresh start.

OFF WITH HIS HEAD ALREADY!!!

Quote from: chipstern on January 27, 2022, 04:54:15 PM
NONSENSE

OK, whatever...

Quote
Number Two, giving you the benefit of the doubt, let's assume, quite rightly, that you are not a moron

Thanks, appreciate it.

Quote
... the Knicks fired Don Nelson and replaced him with assistant Jeff Van Gundy, which worked out okay.  But then, HOWEVER, Nellie's sin, was to try and write Patrick Ewing out of the narrative.  DUH.

I actually think JVG manipulated Patrick into believing that, but that is another story. Then he got lucky in 1999, having to play Latrell and Marcus, whom he did not like, because of injuries to other players. He played favorites, some times he played them into the ground, such as he did to LJ and, to a lesser extent, to PE. He kept talking about defense, which Knicks fans rightfully love, but his offense was atrocious to nonexistent. Bad coach over all, as he proved during his time in Houston, when he did have a great team that never won anything significant with him.

Quote
Coach's ' stubborn streak and quirky rotations notwithstanding, WE HAVE A SOLID CORE OF YOUTH, and Thibs has been developing them.  Under Thibs' watch, we have seen a coming of age of Mitchell [C], Obi [PF], RJ [SF], Grimes [SG] and IQ [PG], which in case you haven't noticed, IS A TENABLE ROTATIONAL QUINTET.  And while we all lambast Thibs for sticking with his vets, when our puppies get an opportunity, Jericho and Deuce and Cam have shown solid flashes of talent and tenacity, and you better believe that they are going to get longer looks if our starting five cannot get it together.

We have indeed drafted well, but I'm not sure how much of that should be credited to Thibs, or the development of our youth. All I know is that, for the most part, he does not play them. I also know that his starting unit has disconnected from him. He has run his course here, has nothing more to offer.

(https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/heraldbanner.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/f/9b/f9bc6fa8-1918-11ea-9186-a3750322709b/5debe4ccccc5b.image.jpg?resize=400%2C225)
MILLER TIME BABY!
Title: Mike
Post by: chipstern on January 27, 2022, 07:34:32 PM
You speak of Mike Miller as if he were Greg Popovich or Monty Williams. 

Again, crediting your sense of humor, that is SOME WEAK CHEESE, mate. 
Title: Re: Mike
Post by: carlos123 on January 27, 2022, 08:03:35 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 27, 2022, 07:34:32 PM
You speak of Mike Miller as if he were Greg Popovich or Monty Williams. 

Again, crediting your sense of humor, that is SOME WEAK CHEESE, mate.

POTENTIALLY!

Glad you are coming around 😁
Title: Re: Mike
Post by: facilitatorn on January 27, 2022, 10:24:33 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 27, 2022, 08:03:35 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 27, 2022, 07:34:32 PM
You speak of Mike Miller as if he were Greg Popovich or Monty Williams. 

Again, crediting your sense of humor, that is SOME WEAK CHEESE, mate.

POTENTIALLY!

Glad you are coming around 😁

Miller had the team running sets that led to good shots.

Thibs had that to some extent last season, though some credit Woody for that.

My feeling is Thibs benched Kemba and was looking to do the same with Evan but Leon overruled him. Leon went with his free agent class over his long time client and friend. This broke Thibs authority and the organizational chain of command. The chaos that has caused will remain our hallmark until we see some personnel changes.
Title: Re: Mike
Post by: carlos123 on January 27, 2022, 10:36:21 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 27, 2022, 10:24:33 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 27, 2022, 08:03:35 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 27, 2022, 07:34:32 PM
You speak of Mike Miller as if he were Greg Popovich or Monty Williams. 

Again, crediting your sense of humor, that is SOME WEAK CHEESE, mate.

POTENTIALLY!

Glad you are coming around 😁

Miller had the team running sets that led to good shots.

Thibs had that to some extent last season, though some credit Woody for that.

My feeling is Thibs benched Kemba and was looking to do the same with Evan but Leon overruled him. Leon went with his free agent class over his long time client and friend. This broke Thibs authority and the organizational chain of command. The chaos that has caused will remain our hallmark until we see some personnel changes.

U mean this Woody?
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLW75B7a0sEXUuBTbIC_E9NE2T1kBiBAxYQ3rSBtG77v00SxG4QZA3vYcBxf_REtKqZUVEmSc9203ZPNBgWmfVmNhnWXcA-AmNPJ3qUdV-J_bZu7zO1SxbL36dyDGESRk9puVW6g2fBHDEswYzgiwnp2=w1019-h319-no?authuser=0)

Or this one?
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLVnzJ04GVPK2cJyliow2-7XhDXSpu3vdW2li-2fmdGXKwugdjKudkBelsenFid8LNW35_PqbwGds-uHQgFluBCR5G90zXzbEkvCd1baFxsH1qn4d34aB0JH9vhW8_iRTM2fM7onYdpI1LzwdvoJZcMO=w1296-h729-no?authuser=0)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 27, 2022, 10:40:12 PM
That is the guy. Contractions are such an ingrained habit
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 28, 2022, 02:05:52 AM
Not having a PG is killing us.

I advocated last off-season to wildly overpay FVV (having an all-star year: 22 / 7 / 5 39% on 3's, tough defense).  Knix were looking like a team on the rise, and offering the keys to FVV would have made him pause.  While TOR appeared in flux.

Or dump the wheelbarrow of cash in front of Zo Ball, who has been pretty effective on both ends for CHI.  I'd rather give those guys up to $25M  than $17M to FourEva and $8M to Kemba.  FVV signed for $20M.  BallZo took a deal starting at $19M.  Knix could have gone $22M - $25M.

I can't guarantee one of those two would have signed.  But an extra $10M - $15M over a 4 year deal is enticing.  And the Knix looked like a team on the rise.  Get to run the team in the biggest market, etc.  Both of those PG's play good ballhawking defense. and can make 3's.

Instead we left our PG slot exposed.  Walker and Rose known gimps.
Maybe we should trade Fournier for Dragic (ending deal), who might be able to turn around our season.  Okay I have no idea what is going on with the Dragon, but always liked his game.

Euro-PG's in the NBA:
1. Tony Parker
2. Goran Dragic
3. Jose Calderon
4. ?

am I forgetting someone?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 28, 2022, 02:44:03 AM
Rubio, Schroder, Shved, to name three.

Overpaying a component PG probably would have spared us the Fornier signing along with Kemba, so a net plus there even if the overpaid guy never suited up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 28, 2022, 04:24:53 AM
Best Euro-PG's in NBA history:
1. Tony Parker
2. Goran Dragic
3. Jose Calderon
4. Ricky Rubio
5. Shroder?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 28, 2022, 04:42:28 AM
Rubio was my 3rd choice. 
 
Kemba and FourEva were a failed backcourt for BOS, featuring a pair of all-star level wings next to them.  Not sure why it was expected to work in NYK.  Except actually there was no PG plan. Scooping Kemba up was a late save.  Knix front office should be taken to task for the lack of a PG plan and failure to prioritize the PG slot.

So what is the timetable for Rose's return?

PS I got so bored during the MIA game, I noticed that the Knix on the court appeared virtually tattoo free except for ObiT (Grimes only seems to have acne, IQ, Burks and Taj all seemed to have refrained form inking their birthday suits).
Then I noticed MIA was pretty tat-free as well.  Butler, Bam, Duncan, Herro has a discreet Woody Woodpecker or something on one calf.  Got me wondering if tattoos are starting to fade after a 30 year run(?)  Not being in the USofA, I have no idea if that's the case.  But the NBA is often leading edge.  Maybe more hair-dying and goofy hairstyles such as RegBollix used to wear, or the strange up-'do Ja and Garland sport.  Hell, maybe my monitor is just too small to see the tattoos the players have.  Seems Rose is our illustrated man (and wears a sort of woolen winter fez these days), while ObiT and Randle have plenty.  After that, not sure the team is that inked up.  Especially the yute crew.

PPS Neck tattoos are pretty unappealing to me, especially those creepy ones of babies, such as Wil Chandler sports on his throat.  A little ghoul popping out of your shirt collar.  Yikes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 28, 2022, 05:04:28 AM
Checking out the PHI-LAL game.
StanJohn is playing super-D.
2Q, Stan is guarding Drummond down low.
Steps over to help on a Tobias drive, and is right in Harris' way as he spins and is forced into an awkward shot.

Later 2Q, Stan is guarding Embiid 1-on-1 at the FT line.
StanJohn bodies up, puts his chest into Embiid a 2nd time, and Joel gets called for an o-foul for shouldering stanJohn out of the way.
 
With LeBJ out and AD having a boo-boo, Stan seems to be the second unit center.
SJ just a thin 6'7".  But determined.  No way Lakes don't keep StanJohn for the rest of the season ... unless they're daft.

Two of Westbrook's 6 turnovers = after he rebounds the ball and is still below the FT line, throws crummy outlet passes to halfcourt, both times intercepted by Thybulle.  Jeez.  Love Thy Bull.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 28, 2022, 11:25:42 AM
Quote from: elephant on January 27, 2022, 05:25:37 PM
Aside from Randle's woes, what is going on with the offense? Is it really a talent thing? For better ball clubs, it's clear about their strategies to confuse defenses, exploit weakness, so on. For us, it's a mystery. Occasionally we get hot and hold our own. But so often we just look slow, laborious and predictable. 

In the past, there have been Knick squads that suck because, you know, essentially their guys were better than ours. Not wildly complicated. Now it feels...different. Like we're getting much less out of this team than we should.
 
On another note, all year long I thought that our 2nd team would beat the 1st more times than not.

Ball movement is one thing  PLAYER movement another altogether.  Proper spacing, opportune cutting etc.

Then, as Scalabrine mentioned - who can make a play when there is none available?  Seems Randle did this a heap last year - and in the end - even given his huge season - was criticized for it.  BARRETT is showing the beginnings of being such a talent.  Fornier could do this more often - but is so fundamental that he is not so accustomed.  Quickley of course - yes - but needs a tick up in efficiency.  And then there is Reddish.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 28, 2022, 01:00:59 PM
Thibs got folks standing around like statues. Clearly likes it that way. Don't think we can blame all that on the players.
Title: OFF WITH HIS HEAD!!!
Post by: carlos123 on January 28, 2022, 01:22:04 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on January 28, 2022, 01:00:59 PM
Thibs got folks standing around like statues. Clearly likes it that way. Don't think we can blame all that on the players.

That is what I have been saying.

That my doggie. Good boy! 🐶
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 28, 2022, 01:53:33 PM
I have plenty issues w/Thibs. Not calling for his head, but it's certainly possible you're just ahead of the curve on this...
Title: Good doggie 🐶
Post by: carlos123 on January 28, 2022, 02:09:16 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on January 28, 2022, 01:53:33 PM
I have plenty issues w/Thibs. Not calling for his head, but it's certainly possible you're just ahead of the curve on this...

Ok, you are not calling for his head (YET), but you would not be unhappy if it happened, right?
Title: Re: Good doggie 🐶
Post by: lesterluv on January 28, 2022, 02:36:57 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 28, 2022, 02:09:16 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on January 28, 2022, 01:53:33 PM
I have plenty issues w/Thibs. Not calling for his head, but it's certainly possible you're just ahead of the curve on this...

Ok, you are not calling for his head (YET), but you would not be unhappy if it happened, right?

Well I surely wouldn't mind a few new offensive sets, lol...
Title: Re: Good doggie 🐶
Post by: chipstern on January 28, 2022, 04:15:25 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 28, 2022, 02:09:16 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on January 28, 2022, 01:53:33 PM
I have plenty issues w/Thibs. Not calling for his head, but it's certainly possible you're just ahead of the curve on this...

Ok, you are not calling for his head (YET), but you would not be unhappy if it happened, right?

WRONG
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 28, 2022, 05:04:56 PM
Firing the coach is so tedious. What do you think that signals to the rest of the league?

A step backward.

I'm thinking/hoping that there are ways to right the ship within the current system. Perhaps it's an internal negotiation with Thibs to yield a greater role with offensive schemes to one of the assistants. There's got to be someone there with more innovative ideas, a better sense of how to max the talent that we have.

Thib's weaknesses are becoming clearer. But I think he's already proven that he can be a force for a winning team.
Title: Re: Good doggie 🐶
Post by: carlos123 on January 28, 2022, 05:34:12 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 28, 2022, 04:15:25 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 28, 2022, 02:09:16 PM
Quote from: Les on January 28, 2022, 01:53:33 PM
I have plenty issues w/Thibs. Not calling for his head, but it's certainly possible you're just ahead of the curve on this...

Ok, you are not calling for his head (YET), but you would not be unhappy if it happened, right?

WRONG

That is not the way I read my doggies response, on the contrary...
Quote from: Les on January 28, 2022, 02:36:57 PM
Well I surely wouldn't mind a few new offensive sets, lol...

Such a nice doggie! 🦮🐕‍🦺🐩🐕
Title: Who cares what they think?
Post by: carlos123 on January 28, 2022, 05:37:54 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 28, 2022, 05:04:56 PM
Firing the coach is so tedious. What do you think that signals to the rest of the league?

A step backward.

I'm thinking/hoping that there are ways to right the ship within the current system. Perhaps it's an internal negotiation with Thibs to yield a greater role with offensive schemes to one of the assistants. There's got to be someone there with more innovative ideas, a better sense of how to max the talent that we have.

Thib's weakness are becoming clearer. But I think he's already proven that he can be a force for a winning team.

Elephant, the rest of the league are well informed. They know we are a crappy team right now.

Thibs has proven he loses his teams after being a force for the first year or two. He has already lost this Knicks team. And the rest of the league knows this too.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 28, 2022, 08:18:15 PM
HUUUUUGE game tonight

In looking cohesive and competitive, if not winning
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 28, 2022, 10:47:26 PM
When's Rose coming back?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 29, 2022, 12:42:13 AM
Why in the world would Walker be out there in the last few minutes?

That's utterly unjustifiable.

And Mitch, 4 straight missed free throws when you're trying to make a comeback at the end of a game is not a good look.

Arrrrrrgh. Just such a fucking difficult team to watch.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 29, 2022, 01:04:52 AM
I'm not ready to ditch Thibs yet. He coached a good game. I saw a few new sets. For him, the substitutions were an improvement. Especially liked the Quick pull for Quick. (If I never see him attempting to play point again, that would be right fine.)

I REALLY WANT TO GET RID OF RANDLE.

Was ready to give him some half-hearted praise, despite the sub-par play, despite the early turnovers, for doing the dirty work, for one or two strong moves to the hoop, for staying locked in ... but he didn't. Not at all. He checked out completely. Early. The complete failure to even attempt to block out Connaughton with like 2:15 left and it's like an 8-point game. Oof. Go back and watch it. You'll vomit. His head is somewhere deep inside a cave deep inside his head deep inside a...

HE'S COOKED. I'M DONE. What did I say? Two second rounders? OK...Yeah we'll lose more. So what. Ain't gonna go anywhere riding that horse. For damn sure. And honestly, I don't think he'll like being the rugged guy third or fourth option he should be.

*** Nice on Fournier backing up the talk with an excellent game on both ends. Kemba played a pretty good one too.

*** RJ adding a 6-20 to that long, long, long, long list. That's why Kidd asks the question. It's still a reasonable one. Even post-"surge." Never gave up though. I'll give him that!
Title: This
Post by: lesterluv on January 29, 2022, 01:19:06 AM
https://twitter.com/KnicksTape/status/1487298938050949120 (https://twitter.com/KnicksTape/status/1487298938050949120)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 29, 2022, 02:31:32 AM
Knix hung around.  Mostly due to FourEva J's.
4Ev also had one of those games where a poor defender suddenly tries to defend and overdoes it.  Just get in solid position and stay in front of your man, and navigate screens as well as you can.  Instead he fouled like mad unnecessarily.

RJB played hard as usual.  10 FT's.  and made them.

Mitch needs to get some arc on his FT's.  Can't be leaving so many points on the court.  Mitch got his hands on a ton of rebounds, but MIL did a good job all game of gang rebounding and tipping the ball away from Mitch.  Then late, MIL got a bunch of off-boards to help drain the clock.

Kemba helped give us some ball movement.  +6 with him; -21 without.  Probably why he was out there late.  Sure feels like IQ is who he is and has plateaued.  He can't shoot FT's or floaters any better really.  His 3 is pretty good.  And he just doesn't seem to have PG mentality or skills.  IQ has gotten a bit more pesky on D.  Better than last year.  Bench energizer/scorer.  Which is fine.  But doesn't help us with our PG issue.

MIL didn't play particularly well, yet didn't have much trouble knocking off the Knix.
Title: ????
Post by: carlos123 on January 29, 2022, 10:43:32 AM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on January 28, 2022, 08:18:15 PM
HUUUUUGE game tonight

In looking cohesive and competitive, if not winning

And why was this game special?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 29, 2022, 11:39:09 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 29, 2022, 02:31:32 AM

4Ev also had one of those games where a poor defender suddenly tries to defend and overdoes it.  Just get in solid position and stay in front of your man, and navigate screens as well as you can.  Instead he fouled like mad unnecessarily.

Rofl...Fournier played excellent D all game long. He had exactly TWO fouls through the last four minutes ... at which point we are DESPERATELY SCRAPPING to make up that deficit. Ya need steals and stops, you'll overplay and get called.

Well, at least four of the five Knicks on the floor were desperately scrapping to make up that deficit.

One was CHECKED OUT.
Title: Normal as Fuk!
Post by: lesterluv on January 29, 2022, 11:46:48 AM
Meanwhile, we're talking reparations? We're talking M'FN HAMSTER REPARATIONS?

Yes we are.

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/asia/hong-kong-government-offers-hamster-reparations-covid-19-fight-2467016 (https://www.channelnewsasia.com/asia/hong-kong-government-offers-hamster-reparations-covid-19-fight-2467016)

But it's too late to make nice...they will not be forgotten nor their loved ones silenced.

https://www.npr.org/2022/01/29/1076606146/opinion-a-case-for-hong-kongs-hamsters (https://www.npr.org/2022/01/29/1076606146/opinion-a-case-for-hong-kongs-hamsters)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 29, 2022, 01:15:45 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 28, 2022, 08:18:15 PM
HUUUUUGE game tonight

In looking cohesive and competitive, if not winning

Mission accomplished.  We're fine.

But watching ESN's game one we can see what we are lacking, as Lakers showed what a real alpha can do (Westbrook 30 in second half) and Hornets had great spacing, winning the game even though they had a real tough time finishing LA off (Russ missed 3 at the buzzer)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 29, 2022, 02:03:04 PM
Fournier spent the first 5 minutes of the game drifting way far from Gray Allen.  So helped muck up the paint some.  The one time they kicked to Allen, Mitch rotated out quickly.  Then Gray adjusted.  6:50 mark, FourEva keeps swiveling his head even though JRue is doubled in the paint.  Loses track of Gray Son who hits an uncontested 3.  Very next play, Gray goes right around the forever drifting Fournier and tips the o-rebound to Connaught.  Then subbed out for Grimes/2nd unit.  In his 2nd rotation, 4Ev gave up an open corner 3 late 2Q, only negated because Portis knocked over Noel down low.

Entire 1st half of iffy D, as 4Eva constantly drifted far off his man.  Wasn't much damage as 4Ev tasked with guarding the least offensive Buck, first Gray Son then Hill/DiVicenzo.  The one time 4Ev doubled was ineffective, leaving his man open on the baseline, though the pass went to Anti-Greek for a dunk.  1st half, I'd call it mediocre D (below average).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 29, 2022, 02:21:59 PM
Shhh. Bo, we are trying to trade him.

Thibs rotations make sense if Fournier, Walker, and a few others can play acceptably for a few games. That would go some way to help our chances of moving them.

Expect status quo till the deadline or until we do some business.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 29, 2022, 02:59:43 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 29, 2022, 02:03:04 PM
Fournier spent the first 5 minutes of the game drifting way far from Gray Allen.  So helped muck up the paint some.  The one time they kicked to Allen, Mitch rotated out quickly.  Then Gray adjusted.  6:50 mark, FourEva keeps swiveling his head even though JRue is doubled in the paint.  Loses track of Gray Son who hits an uncontested 3.  Very next play, Gray goes right around the forever drifting Fournier and tips the o-rebound to Connaught.  Then subbed out for Grimes/2nd unit.  In his 2nd rotation, 4Ev gave up an open corner 3 late 2Q, only negated because Portis knocked over Noel down low.

Entire 1st half of iffy D, as 4Eva constantly drifted far off his man.  Wasn't much damage as 4Ev tasked with guarding the least offensive Buck, first Gray Son then Hill/DiVicenzo.  The one time 4Ev doubled was ineffective, leaving his man open on the baseline, though the pass went to Anti-Greek for a dunk.  1st half, I'd call it mediocre D (below average).

lol, lol, lol..
Title: Whaaaaaaaaat?
Post by: carlos123 on January 29, 2022, 03:20:23 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 QUOTING HISSELF on January 29, 2022, 01:15:45 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on January 28, 2022, 08:18:15 PM
HUUUUUGE game tonight

In looking cohesive and competitive, if not winning

Mission accomplished.  We're fine.

But watching ESN's game one we can see what we are lacking, as Lakers showed what a real alpha can do (Westbrook 30 in second half) and Hornets had great spacing, winning the game even though they had a real tough time finishing LA off (Russ missed 3 at the buzzer)

Mission accomplished?

WHAT MISSION? U run this team now?

(https://i.imgur.com/hKgEALa.gif?1)
Title: Normal as Fuk Fuk!
Post by: lesterluv on January 29, 2022, 04:52:45 PM
Lunar New Year is China's biggest holiday. For the third straight year, many families will be forced to spend it apart

https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/24/china/china-wuhan-lockdown-two-years-mic-intl-hnk/index.html (https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/24/china/china-wuhan-lockdown-two-years-mic-intl-hnk/index.html)

I swear I pointed this phenomena out to Bo and he sputtered you're lying it never happened and then muttered Zach Randolph Scary Negro Mother Lover Posse Thug Virus Fake Weibo News....

In a viral video, Dong Hong, head of Dancheng county, was heard saying at a meeting that "anyone returning home from medium- or high-risk areas will be quarantined and then detained. "Amid a firestorm of criticism, Dong later said he was only referring to people who don't obey local prevention policies and "maliciously return home." But many questioned how the desire to reunite with one's family could be seen as malevolent. "Is it wrong for a migrant worker who toils day and night, who lives far away from home, to return to his hometown and reunite with his family during his only few days of annual holiday?" asked a widely shared post on Weibo, China's Twitter-like platform. "We can all understand the severity of the (Covid) situation, and we can abide the prevention and control rules, but we should also be able to fulfill our wishes to go home for the Lunar New Year."
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 29, 2022, 05:24:18 PM
WHAT MISSION? U run this team now?


 Through Leon - and in LEON we trust
Title: Big Boss Chamaco
Post by: carlos123 on January 29, 2022, 05:39:18 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on January 29, 2022, 05:24:18 PM
WHAT MISSION? U run this team now?


 Through Leon - and in LEON we trust

(https://c.tenor.com/v5qNBX1VE3wAAAAM/back-to-work-supervisor.gif)
BIG BOSS CHAMACO... LMAO
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 29, 2022, 11:53:47 PM
Maybe all the ObiT chants and cheers have gotten to Randle's head.
Maybe trading ObiT would relieve his burden and regain his glory.

Doesn't seem like the Knix are going to make any trade.
We really need a starting PG and one isn't available
(except Fox and maybe Lillard, but what could we offer, and do we want either of them anyway).
Bo says No.
I'd be trying to trade for TyH, Brogdon and Brunson.  All could be available.

Mitch would seem our best trade asset.  Then ObiT.  Noel.
If Rose were healthy, he might be the kind of smart scoring vet some lower playoff teams might covet.
4Eva has consistency and defensive issues, but also can light it up. 
Could trade some of those for a solid switchable 3&D wing.
Covington a bit creaky.  Dwight Powell/Kleber more F/C's.
Siakim pricey.

Maybe Red Cam can be that 3&D wing we need.
A couple games ago he had a real nice block and then some other good defensive plays late 4Q.  An erratic scorer, but capable of scoring from anywhere.
I'd like to see the Cammishioner get some significant court time.
Yute development is all this season promises.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 30, 2022, 12:39:19 AM
TyH bounced back from two subpar games, dropping 38 on HI (with 3 steals, 7 assists).  Looks like '6ers tried to sic ThyBull on him, and tyH tagged fouls on him and got him out.  (12 FT's; 4 fouls in just 11 min for Thybull).

Wiggy seems like the kind of guy who will take the AS award and play better post-validation. 

I'm sure it's happened before, but it's hard to think of another healthy player so locked in and focused one year and then as perplexed and distracted the next as Julius Randle last year to this one.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 30, 2022, 01:42:40 AM
Maybe Red Cam can be that 3&D wing we need.
A couple games ago he had a real nice block and then some other good defensive plays late 4Q.  An erratic scorer, but capable of scoring from anywhere.
I'd like to see the Cammishioner get some significant court time.
Yute development is all this season promises.

Thibs just stated no court time for Reddish unless there is an  injury

Loyalty to current roster is impressive

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 30, 2022, 10:05:50 AM
... or trade.
Perhaps Fournier to somewhere, freeing up minutes for Grimes and Cammish.

Othersowise I'd have Cam's locker next to Burks.  They have similar games and early career struggles, compounded by injury.
Burks was stuck behind a rotating cast of others his first few years, then they drafted the somewhat similar Rod Hood.  When Burks got his chance to start in Y4, he blew out his shoulder early Dec.  Then Y5 made it to Xmas before his knee gave way.  So two lost years.  Then trades, etc.  Burks can help Reddish through it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 30, 2022, 11:16:16 AM
Yep

Seems Grimes already has his minutes .  But I guess that could change if Derrick came back.

I think Thibs has no clue who they will trade/trade for, so he is saying the only thing he can at the moment.
Title: More BoZ names
Post by: carlos123 on January 30, 2022, 12:15:57 PM
First was Red Cam
Then Cammishioner
And now Cammish

BoZizzley is in good shape!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 30, 2022, 12:23:29 PM
Spider Reddish.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 30, 2022, 02:26:36 PM
So. Trades.

For me, Obi has to stay because no one knows his ceiling (IMHO). His growth from last year to this is significant. Yeah, maybe he'll just be this athletic freak who finds a role in different squads. But maybe something much more
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 30, 2022, 02:27:27 PM
Has anyone seen a practical scenario where Randle can be traded?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 30, 2022, 02:34:34 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 30, 2022, 02:26:36 PM
So. Trades.

For me, Obi has to stay because no one knows his ceiling (IMHO). His growth from last year to this is significant. Yeah, maybe he'll just be this athletic freak who finds a role in different squads. But maybe something much more

Much higher chance than maybe...imho. There are plenty of athletic freaks who can highlight dunk. Very very few have Obi's touch around the basket, golden. And as much as we all hate Obi stationed out beyond the three...no way Thibs has him doing that if he weren't knocking 'em down in practice. Kid has motor, and as you note, demonstrated ability to improve (the D from Season 1 to Season 2..). Surely nobody untouchable on this team, but you don't let this kid go EZ..and def not lol, to "relieve Randle's burden."
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 30, 2022, 02:36:07 PM
Yep. I'm with you 100%.
Title: Not really
Post by: carlos123 on January 30, 2022, 03:21:38 PM
Quote from: chamAAcocartero8 on January 30, 2022, 12:23:29 PM
Spider Reddish.

That's a name...

But not a BoZ name.

"- Rest in peace, AshlEEy BabbIItt 1/6/21 -" ChamAAco CartEEro
"*** Mike Byrd said, "Bitch, you ain't getting into this house." BAM!***" My doggie Les 🐶 ... That's a good boy!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 30, 2022, 06:35:11 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 30, 2022, 02:27:27 PM
Has anyone seen a practical scenario where Randle can be traded?

You mean as in who would want him?

I think there are a few out there
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 30, 2022, 08:41:04 PM
More than a few..some probably with pretty good return, call us up Portland, Covington is washed, you need a Julius bad!
Title: Normal as Fuk Fuk Fukity Fuk!
Post by: lesterluv on January 30, 2022, 08:52:02 PM
Buy Advil at the corner store? The cops know instantly, the "residential committee" will give you a courtesy call, and you may has well march straight into isolation.

Days after buying over-the-counter medicine from a pharmacy in Beijing, university student Yu was stunned to find her prized green health code -- the essential rating needed to enter the city's shops, offices and public transport -- was gone.

Not easy being green: China's 'health codes' define Covid-era life
https://www.rfi.fr/en/not-easy-being-green-china-s-health-codes-define-covid-era-life (https://www.rfi.fr/en/not-easy-being-green-china-s-health-codes-define-covid-era-life)
https://www.rfa.org/english/news/china/app-01272022102806.html (https://www.rfa.org/english/news/china/app-01272022102806.html)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 30, 2022, 09:52:20 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on January 30, 2022, 08:41:04 PM
More than a few..some probably with pretty good return, call us up Portland, Covington is washed, you need a Julius bad!

And what does Portland offer us in return?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 30, 2022, 09:56:24 PM
Meanwhile, down in Westchester

http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2022/1/30/22908538/analyzing-miles-mcbrides-game-with-the-westchester-knicks (http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2022/1/30/22908538/analyzing-miles-mcbrides-game-with-the-westchester-knicks)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 31, 2022, 01:54:53 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 30, 2022, 09:52:20 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on January 30, 2022, 08:41:04 PM
More than a few..some probably with pretty good return, call us up Portland, Covington is washed, you need a Julius bad!

And what does Portland offer us in return?

Would almost have to be McCollum, since the issue in POR is that Lillard and McC dominate the ball and can't stop anyone.  So you don't want to add Randle to that tandem.  Randle for McC would rebalance their roster positionally, without actually solving the O/D imbalance.  And of course then the Knix would have another SG who plays iffy D. 

Expand to Randle and Fournier for McCollum & Covington.
But again, doesn't solve anything for anyone.  POR needs a defender in the backcourt with Lil Dame.  Not Foureva leaving his man.  Swapping around offenders isn't going to help either team improve their defense.  They could use a Mitch/Noel.

Of course the idea of selling low on Julius before Toppings is a legit starter could use a rethink ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 31, 2022, 03:18:11 AM
So Knix blew all their cap space on Fournier and Walker.
Any idea how much cap space Knix will have this summer?
Looks like just the amount of the annual cap increase, maybe $5M - $8M.  Which is in the range of MLE exceptions which most teams have available.  So virtually nothing.

Knix are on the hook for $9M to Kemba next year.
Noah's $6.5M finally coming off, but that's eaten up by everyone's annual raises.
Taj's $5M isn't guaranteed, but even that savings would be eaten up by Randle's new contract bump.  Mitch still needs to be re-signed. 

Ideally, I'd want to have last year's $25M cap space back.  And offer Brunson $18M - $20M.  DAL would have a hard time matching that.

For those praising the front office, they sure pissed away the Knix big cap space hoard.  Not sure who else will be available in FA this Summer, but Knix could have punted last year -- after trying for FVV and/or Ball -- and been big players this year.  BOS old backcourt of Kemba and FourEva -- $26M this; $27M next -- unsurprisingly wasn't worth it.  Much rather have FVV or BallZo at an overpay of $25M.  Or rollover the cap space to this Summer.

I guess it's difficult/unlikely Knix will have the cap space to add Brunson or anything much beyond a role player. 

Btw, Randle has a 15% trade kicker.  Also, makes an extra $1M this year if he makes the all-Defensive team.  Really.  Or the AS team.  Or Knix make the playoffs and Randle plays in 65 games.
Title: Condescension at no Extra Charge
Post by: bodiddley on January 31, 2022, 04:44:12 AM
Your trolling persistence is impressive.  But you still know nothing about China or life in China under Covid, while the articles you cite are often alarmist and/or misleading.  Ready for some help?

Quote from: lesterluv on January 30, 2022, 08:52:02 PM
Buy Advil at the corner store? The cops know instantly, the "residential committee" will give you a courtesy call, and you may has well march straight into isolation.

Impressive how everything you wrote is wrong:
1) Advil isn't sold here.  Tylenol is.  Even my Chinese doctor friends have never heard of Advil. 
2) The police have nothing to do with this.  The gov't knows who buys Tylenol, because while it's OTC, you need to show your ID card/passport and the purchase is entered into the system (with name, phone number, ID #).
3) you can walk straight to any hospital or clinic or probably the neighborhood committee itself and get tested for free.  The idea is to encourage people with possible fevers to get CV tested. 

Not sure if one negative result restores your green health code status.  The reporter is mildly alarmist about people losing their green status, but doesn't bother to explain how easy/difficult restoration is.  It might take just a couple hours.

Also, pressuring cold medicine buyers to get tested is an extra measure being applied in Beijing, as BJ deals with both the Olympics and a minor outbreak (40+ cases).  So this might apply to 20M people in one city, and affect a somewhat small subset thereof, but isn't national policy.

Quote
Days after buying over-the-counter medicine from a pharmacy in Beijing, university student Yu was stunned to find her prized green health code -- the essential rating needed to enter the city's shops, offices and public transport -- was gone.

Quote
Health-tracking apps are now required for entry almost everywhere, including offices, transport stations, stores, malls and taxis.
Without it, normal life grinds to a halt.

This is what I mean by misleading.  The writer should make it clear that that is strictly a new and likely temporary Beijing policy, which is now extra-stringent during the Olympics (and a minor outbreak of a few dozen cases).  In Shanghai, the green health code is only needed to enter gov't buildings.  The only time I ever use it is to enter the (gov't) hospital grounds.  The subway, office buildings, taxis, stores, bars, etc. don't require a health code.

Bottom line: for 1.3B in China, life is CV-free and close to normal.  To maintain that, a few border towns face repeated lockdowns, Xi'an got locked down for 2 weeks, mass testing is implemented when mini-outbreaks occur; Beijing locked down a few neighborhoods, apparently is relying on health codes more, and now is pressuring cold medicine purchasers to get tested. 

Maintaining a CV-free environment is not easy, and there will be some inconvenience and hardships, but it's certainly way way better than a million dead and tens of million sickened, the health care system overwhelmed, people's lives disrupted for years, and living with daily fear.  I'm unvaccinated and usually mask free (I wear it when required or the rare occasions everybody else is wearing one) and go out in public without worry.  Wish others had those same options, freedom and peace of mind.
Title: What a Dawg Know
Post by: lesterluv on January 31, 2022, 06:03:21 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 31, 2022, 04:44:12 AM
Your trolling persistence is impressive.  But you still know nothing about China

Son, the first time I went to China was way back, Darlie toothpaste had still yet to er...."fully transition"..., was after Zach Randolph's birth, but before he smoked his first blunt with the "thugs" and the "sewer rats," and maybe around the time your attitudes about Black people were fully forming!

(https://static.mothership.sg/1/2016/12/darlie-cober-2.jpg)


https://mothership.sg/2016/12/how-darkie-became-darlie-and-why-it-still-keeps-its-chinese-name-which-basically-means-darkie/ (https://mothership.sg/2016/12/how-darkie-became-darlie-and-why-it-still-keeps-its-chinese-name-which-basically-means-darkie/)

(https://static.mothership.sg/1/2016/12/HKTVC_Darlie_1990_20sec.gif)
Title: Get a mop and clean the spittle off of your chin
Post by: lesterluv on January 31, 2022, 06:07:53 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 31, 2022, 04:44:12 AM

Impressive how everything you wrote is wrong:
1) Advil isn't sold here.  Tylenol is.  Even my Chinese doctor friends have never heard of Advil. 

The saliva-soaked sputtering about the details is hilarious.

The painkiller brand matters not.

I pulled "Advil" out of my ass, lol. No ANAL SWAB necessary.
I don't care what brands you buy.  Whether you choose Hei Ren Ya Gao toothpaste or Yunnan Baiyao. Has nothing to do with anything. If you prefer uncut Fentanyl for your headaches, L-dawg approves! And street dealers def less likely to trigger the Amber Alert.
Title: Normal as Fickety Fackety Fuk!!!
Post by: lesterluv on January 31, 2022, 06:19:17 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 31, 2022, 04:44:12 AM

Also, pressuring cold medicine buyers to get tested is an extra measure being applied in Beijing, as BJ deals with both the Olympics and a minor outbreak (40+ cases).  So this might apply to 20M people in one city, and affect a somewhat small subset thereof, but isn't national policy.

rofl....you don't like that article, you don't like that writer, it's really just a tiny subset of here for a wee short time and definitely not there

Sorry Chi Bo...you're the one who don't know $%#... maybe the Gray Lady can help ya learn, fresh off da press!

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/30/world/asia/covid-restrictions-china-lockdown.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/30/world/asia/covid-restrictions-china-lockdown.html)

The police had warned Xie Yang, a human rights lawyer, not to go to [NOT BEIJING] to visit the mother of a dissident. He went to the airport anyway...His phone health code app, a digital pass indicating possible exposure to the coronavirus was green, which meant he could travel...His home city[NOWHERE NEAR BEIJING]]had no Covid-19 cases, and he had not left in weeks....Then his app turned red, flagging him as high risk. Airport security tried to put him in quarantine, but he resisted......

REALLY SEZ BO..IT'S JUST A HELPFUL HAPPY HEALTHY HEART APP, KINDA LIKE HAVING A FITBIT!


The foundation of the controls is the health code. The local authorities, working with tech companies, generate a user profile based on location, travel history, test results and other health data. The code color green, yellow or red  determines whether the holder is allowed into buildings or public spaces. Its use is enforced by legions of local officials with the power to quarantine residents or restrict their movements....a potent techno-authoritarian tool for Mr. Xi as he intensifies his campaigns against corruption and dissent
Title: BO KNOWS ... absolutely nothing!
Post by: lesterluv on January 31, 2022, 07:35:12 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 31, 2022, 04:44:12 AM
2) The police have nothing to do with this...


lol, have nothing to do with this? The police developed the f'in app ya chucklehead, together with Alibaba...

While the police are not the only stakeholder, they have played the leading role in providing and using intelligence. With professional staff and working mechanism, they are privileged in integrating the data from other departments and enterprises. The first Health Code App was developed jointly by Alibaba Group, Hangzhou Police Department, and other governmental departments (Zhang and Tang, 2020). The system was then widely adopted across China. Other police departments also came up with databases and predicting models to identify the infected. Handheld devices were designed and put into use to check individual identification and their history of contacts. The police in Shanghai city install a sensor box in the house door of people in quarantine and a camera in the corridor. When the door is opened without permission, the box would send alarm to the police station and the camera would capture snapshots as evidence.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7798653/ (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7798653/)

lol, lol, and if ya think i'm wrong on that, take it up with the guy who wrote it.

Ole Feng Jian is down your way, at the Center for Capital Social Safety, Peoples Public Security University of China, Beijing.

Go by and chat him up. App wont let you get on the train? Shoot him an email [email protected]!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 31, 2022, 08:42:23 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 30, 2022, 09:52:20 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on January 30, 2022, 08:41:04 PM
More than a few..some probably with pretty good return, call us up Portland, Covington is washed, you need a Julius bad!

And what does Portland offer us in return?

Probably a three-teamer I'd guess, with lots of stuff moving around, but they surely have assets, and yes CJ is a fine one.

Achieving a Julius-free environment is not easy, and there will be some inconvenience and hardships.

***a Julius-fixed environment would be fine too, but think probably impossible now, he's as broke as Ben Simmons. If Thibs can pull it off give him a third COY I say!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 31, 2022, 11:02:54 AM
Missing the point with a Randle trade - it wouldnt be to save the season - wouldnt be a parallel move talent-wise.  It would be to help the team who gets Randle get over the hump while giving us future value.

If we are looking to make the playoffs or die - Julius stays at least til summer. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 31, 2022, 11:13:14 AM
I guess it's difficult/unlikely Knix will have the cap space to add Brunson or anything much beyond a role player.


It's widee open for Leon at this point

He can deal off valuable assets
He can deal off youth for current assets
He can stand pat and run it back with another (possibly lottery) pick added.

I think he will try ALL. See what the offers are.  In other words - YES, Fournier and Randle will be dangled.  Yes - Leon will take calls on Obi, on Mitch, on IQ, on  Grimes, not being quick to jump but being curious - as any good NBA management level guy should.  He MAY at this time have one untouchable - #9.  We shall see.

Have a nice day, all.  Let's alll pray we dont end up 24-32 after this next run of play..
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 31, 2022, 11:19:52 AM
Bo -Knicks salaries moving forward


https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/NYK.html
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 31, 2022, 11:29:37 AM
Basically, from '22 -'23

Randle -  4 mil more
Fournier -  +1 mil
Rose - +1 mil
Burks - +.5 mil
Walker - +.5 mil
Barrett - +2.25 mil
Toppin - +.2 mil
Gibson -  - 5 mil
Reddish (vs Knox) - +1.3 mil
Quickley - +.1 mil
Grimes - +.1 mil
Robinson -  -1.8 mil (if let go)
McBride - +.65 mil
Noah  -6.4 mil

Knicks need DEALS to free up any cash at all.  Only options are on Taj (keep at 5 mil) and Mitch (re-sign at who knows how much).
Title: Re: BoZ KNOWS ...
Post by: carlos123 on January 31, 2022, 01:08:12 PM
Quote from: Les on January 31, 2022, 07:35:12 AM
Quote from: BoZizzley on January 31, 2022, 04:44:12 AM
2) The police have nothing to do with this...

lol, have nothing to do with this? The police developed the f'in app, together with Alibaba...

Hey, Les, we all know BoZ is thoroughly re-educated (and maskless and UNVACCINATED), as well as his "love" for Blacks and Hispanics, but...

I miss your signature

*** Mike Byrd said, "Bitch, you ain't getting into this house." BAM!***

It was a work of art. I think you should keep it, at least until ChamAAco takes down his own on Bitch Babbiit.

You can actually have both, the bitchy one and the new one about how free they are in BoZ's China.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on January 31, 2022, 03:04:34 PM
Btw, the TOR-MIA game was amazing.
Here's the 4Q replay: https://nbafullhd.com/61330-2/
& the OT's: https://nbafullhd.com/61331-2/
Playoff intensity, physical, heroics.
Title: Re: BoZ KNOWS ...
Post by: lesterluv on January 31, 2022, 04:40:30 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 31, 2022, 01:08:12 PM

I miss your signature

*** Mike Byrd said, "Bitch, you ain't getting into this house." BAM!***

It was a work of art. I think you should keep it, at least until ChamAAco takes down his own on Bitch Babbiit.

You can actually have both, the bitchy one and the new one about how free they are in BoZ's China.

You're right, Carlos, you're right. I couldn't help myself, tho, Bo provides endless delights....poke him a little and he says the absolute stupidest things!


Quote from: lesterluv on January 31, 2022, 07:35:12 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on January 31, 2022, 04:44:12 AM
2) The police have nothing to do with this...


lol, have nothing to do with this? The police developed the f'in app ya chucklehead,


*** sometimes Chamaco comes close..what was that siggy? Patriotism is not a race it's a ..chemical?..a mineral?..a vegetable?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 01, 2022, 12:18:11 AM
Nice all around game.

Thibs saved it when he pulled and buried Kemba Walker.
Title: U write Chinese?
Post by: carlos123 on February 01, 2022, 01:22:57 AM
***当心！ 扎克*伦道夫和他的暴徒躲在外面的小巷里***

Hey Les, my doggie 🐶, is that the Chinese translation? Is that even Chinese?

Regarding Chamaco, that thingy about Patriotism and race was not about minerals or veggies, I think it was about the ****white race****
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 01, 2022, 05:48:56 AM
Love me some TyH.  Just keeps things so simple.  And plays smart.
In their last game v. PHI, 4 Kings surrounded Embiid on the right edge of the paint.
TyH the lone King guarding the weak side.  He positions himself to cut off the pass to the corner, and as Embiid spins around and kicks out to the left elbow, TyH jumps the passing lane, deflects the ball and gets an easy layup.  Just a brilliant 1-on-2 play.

First 1/4 Fournier.
SacKings manage to not guard both the 3-point line and the paint.  An impressive diversity of bad D.  Everybody but Davion and TyH looks checked out.
Davion with a pair of 1Q blocks.
TyH twice in the first 14 mins fires a long lead pass to challenge the (usually poor) Knick transition D.  One layup, one missed layup.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 01, 2022, 07:14:33 AM
Haha - was at the FanDuel yesterday - figured let me lay a few sheckles on our boys - but then I see -6.5 and I think - the way we are playing can we beat ANYONE by seven?


Nice effort all around.  I still fear 24-32 but  Lakers game might be winnable and maybe we get one other, so i will say 26-30 at best - this would be a real WIN for the 8 day run.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 01, 2022, 07:21:06 AM
KINGS 1-8 when Fox doesn't play
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 01, 2022, 12:53:26 PM
Super nice win against a really bad team. We do that. We've shown we can do that. Great to see Burks finding his groove again. Think there may have been something physical going on in the bad stretch.

Nice all around by Julius, but not even worth commenting on as it doesn't matter.
We need him to keep his #$%# focus and effort when things are tougher for us and him. Barrett, not bad, with some highlight moments, but we ain't gonna beat good teams with him adding 4-14's + 4 TOs to his long, long list of where's that basket again nights. His forays and touches have to be more about getting better shooters and finishers the ball. Can happen gradually. But it has to happen.


*For about the 4th time now, see nothing in Haliburton that gives me OBI REGRET. Nice player but have not one iota..


** That Mitchell kid tho....
Title: Re: U write Chinese?
Post by: lesterluv on February 01, 2022, 12:58:53 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 01, 2022, 01:22:57 AM
***当心！ 扎克*伦道夫和他的暴徒躲在外面的小巷里***

Hey Les, my doggie 🐶, is that the Chinese translation? Is that even Chinese?


I'm fluent. I never told ya?
当心！ 扎克*伦道夫和他的暴徒躲在外面的小巷里

大黑鬼会吃掉你的宠物仓鼠并让你的妻子怀孕

 我的屁股被那个肛门拭子弄痛了

警察在我的肛门里给我带来不便
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 01, 2022, 01:08:16 PM
Great to see Burks finding his groove again. Think there may have been something physical going on.


heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 01, 2022, 01:13:45 PM
You think he looked right during the bad stretch? To me, something looked off during the bad stretch.

But yes, maybe he was just bad.

Or, maybe you just need to heh.

That's ok, too.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 01, 2022, 01:24:57 PM
I think the TyH - OBI debate has to factor in Julius Randle.  As in would he defer to Ty and let him facilitate or would Ty be another of our second stringers free to play without the shackles of Randle ISO offense but stymied on the starting unit (see McBride, Deuce).   OBI is lucky he doesn't have Randle and Burks as his PGs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 01, 2022, 01:28:04 PM
Randle doesn't dictate the offense.  But once he gets the rock he will try to create.  That's his game.

Haliburton would get more open looks playing with Julius than with Barnes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 01, 2022, 02:28:18 PM
Cleveland is making a serious push and might want to shore up its rotation.

Fournier and Noel for Rubio, Ed Davis, and Dylan Windler would work. We can release Rubio and Davis post trade and still have a roster spot to play with.

It opens time for our youth and gives us money to chase a guy like Brunson in the off-season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 01, 2022, 03:00:17 PM
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2022/01/cavs-willing-to-deal-this-years-first-rounder-rubios-contract.html

Sure.

Get that first rounder tossed in.

This if we are in fact 24-32.  If we win 2 of next 5 I am keeping Fournier.  I think he is fine here given his cost.
Title: Re: U write Chinese?
Post by: carlos123 on February 01, 2022, 03:56:51 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on February 01, 2022, 12:58:53 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 01, 2022, 01:22:57 AM
***当心！ 扎克*伦道夫和他的暴徒躲在外面的小巷里***

Hey Les, my doggie 🐶, is that the Chinese translation? Is that even Chinese?


I'm fluent. I never told ya?
当心！ 扎克*伦道夫和他的暴徒躲在外面的小巷里

大黑鬼会吃掉你的宠物仓鼠并让你的妻子怀孕

 我的屁股被那个肛门拭子弄痛了

警察在我的肛门里给我带来不便

I had no idea.  But since BoZ said you did not know anything about China, I suspected you knew a great deal, just did not know you were fluent in the language, too. Which one, Mandarin? I understand BoZ is more comfortable in Cantonese, but I may be wrong.
Title: Mr. heh (and lol) strikes YET again #43,837
Post by: carlos123 on February 01, 2022, 03:59:15 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on February 01, 2022, 01:08:16 PM
Great to see Burks finding his groove again. Think there may have been something physical going on.


heh

-  Julie Kelly is a great American -  Chamaco Cartero
Julie Kelly is an Irish professional pool, and former snooker, player.
Born: January 28, 1968 (age 54 years), Dublin, Ireland
(https://usrtk.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/julie-kelly.jpg)
NOT REALLY AMERICAN, BUT AN AMERICAN HERO NONETHELESS ACCORDING TO CHAMACO
(https://i.vimeocdn.com/filter/overlay?src0=https%3A%2F%2Fi.vimeocdn.com%2Fvideo%2F1112428892-d49689d7abb062b661f0fc791053d40d4f17ef8be96e5d3867010910a096b3e3-d_1280x720&src1=https%3A%2F%2Ff.vimeocdn.com%2Fimages_v6%2Fshare%2Fplay_icon_overlay.png)

Quote from: Les 🐶 on February 01, 2022, 01:13:45 PM

Or, maybe you just need to heh.

That's ok, too.

Exactly, he just needed to heh. Heh-ing is what Chamaco does best.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 01, 2022, 05:01:23 PM
lol, I had no idea who Julie Kelly was...really dumb bitch for sure!
Title: Chamaco's dumb bitches
Post by: carlos123 on February 01, 2022, 06:44:31 PM
Quote from: Les🐶 on February 01, 2022, 05:01:23 PM
lol, I had no idea who Julie Kelly was...really dumb bitch for sure!

Dumb is the kind of bitches Chamaco likes.
But not quite as dumb as he, starting with calling the dumb Irish bitch a great American.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 01, 2022, 08:11:02 PM
 Here you go - got ya 2 bucks off

https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/january-6-julie-kelly/1140827314
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 01, 2022, 08:12:52 PM
Too cheap?  Here is some free stuff

https://amgreatness.com/
Title: Dumb and Dumber
Post by: carlos123 on February 01, 2022, 08:29:08 PM
Quote from: chamAAcocartero8 on February 01, 2022, 08:11:02 PM
Here you go - got ya 2 bucks off

https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/january-6-julie-kelly/1140827314

(https://prodimage.images-bn.com/lf?set=key%5Bresolve.pixelRatio%5D,value%5B1%5D&set=key%5Bresolve.width%5D,value%5B550%5D&set=key%5Bresolve.height%5D,value%5B10000%5D&set=key%5Bresolve.imageFit%5D,value%5Bcontainerwidth%5D&set=key%5Bresolve.allowImageUpscaling%5D,value%5B0%5D&product=path%5B/pimages/9781637582640_p0_v1%5D&call=url%5Bfile:common/decodeProduct.chain%5D)

And what are you proving, that the DUMB IRISH BITCH wrote a book, or that you are even DUMBER for reading such garbage?

-  Chamaco Cartero is a not-so-great fake-Mexican -
Title: Julie Kelly has stepped thru the mirror
Post by: bodiddley on February 01, 2022, 11:22:08 PM
Julie Kelly:

Quote
Believing January 6 was an inside job perpetrated by Democrats and Trumps fiercest enemies in the government isnt a conspiracy theory.

Believing it was an armed, deadly insurrection incited by Donald Trump and executed by white supremacists is the conspiracy theory.

So Trump claimed the election was stolen and held a mass rally and ... only Dems showed up disguised as Trump supporters?  You'd think it might be easier for the Left to not attack anything and just let Biden peacefully be certified?

Next level food for thought:
Maybe Trump was in on it and his people hired the Dem instigators...
 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 01, 2022, 11:35:17 PM
Fournier?  4Eva's shooting, iffy defense and tendency to disappear for only $50M over 3 years.  Maybe if Cavs need more 1Q scoring.  CLE might wonder why Foreva was being moved again.  I doubt they want a weak D backcourt mate for Garland.

Cavs could target Gary Harris.  $21M ending deal.  Gives them flexibility.  Could be re-signed for much less.  Or Josh Rich.  $12M next year.  Both solid defenders with some range. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 02, 2022, 10:06:28 AM
Trent Jr. killing it.
30+ points (with 5 or more made 3's) in 5 straight.
31/60 on 3's in the last 5 games.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 02, 2022, 10:17:13 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 01, 2022, 11:35:17 PM
Fournier?  4Eva's shooting, iffy defense and tendency to disappear for only $50M over 3 years.  Maybe if Cavs need more 1Q scoring.  CLE might wonder why Foreva was being moved again.  I doubt they want a weak D backcourt mate for Garland.

Cavs could target Gary Harris.  $21M ending deal.  Gives them flexibility.  Could be re-signed for much less.  Or Josh Rich.  $12M next year.  Both solid defenders with some range.

heh

Yeah, they could.

Let's wait and see who they end up with.  Not much of a chance it is Fournier whether they like him or not.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 02, 2022, 11:44:41 AM
lol, lol, they ain't getting Fournier for that bag of crap.

Evan Fournier shot 45.7% from three-point range in January.
That's the highest percentage among all players who attempted at least 100 three's last month.

The better a team is, the better Fournier is.....the folks who need to know know.

该死的，为什么我今天像企鹅一样蹒跚而行？
Title: Mr. heh (and lol) strikes YET again #43,838
Post by: carlos123 on February 02, 2022, 12:15:11 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on February 02, 2022, 10:17:13 AM
Quote from: BoZizzley on February 01, 2022, 11:35:17 PM
Fournier?  4Eva's shooting, iffy defense and tendency to disappear for only $50M over 3 years.  Maybe if Cavs need more 1Q scoring.  CLE might wonder why Foreva was being moved again.  I doubt they want a weak D backcourt mate for Garland.

Cavs could target Gary Harris.  $21M ending deal.  Gives them flexibility.  Could be re-signed for much less.  Or Josh Rich.  $12M next year.  Both solid defenders with some range.

heh


Just can't help hisself

-  Chamaco Cartero is a not-so-great fake-Mexican -
Title: Idea of the Day
Post by: lesterluv on February 03, 2022, 12:17:48 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 01, 2022, 02:28:18 PM

Fournier and Noel for Rubio, Ed Davis, and Dylan Windler would work. We can release Rubio and Davis post trade and still have a roster spot to play with.


Watcha say gentlemen? Offload Fournier (AND Noel) for two guys we're gonna waive and Dylan 2.8 pts a game Windler.

jeezus......got to run to the corner for some ADVIL.

你太他妈傻了，让我的大脑受伤了

Rose surely would have made a difference tonight. Kemba and Quick not doing it.
Randle hoisting FIVE three balls in the first eight minutes helped set a wrong tone, but glad we fought hard after that. Too many bad bounces and dumb-ass plays to get over the hump. But fun to watch. Onward.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 03, 2022, 08:05:40 AM
Knix defense a mess.
4Eva opened with a good defensive possession on Bane, then had trouble with screens and staying on his man.  Griz seemed to be going at him early.  Maybe trying to make him work and thwart his 1Q fireworks.  PLus pick on the weak defenders.  RJB did pretty well on Ja early.  Who still found ways to score while being defended well.  2Q, Thibs used RJB as the second unit PG.

Transition D:
3:20 left in 1Q.  5 Knix are back.  4 Griz trot slowly upcourt to join them.   somehow Burks is down on the left block, while his man is at the right elbow.  And cans a wide open 3.  How does that happen?

Earlier, mid-1Q, another Memf slow break and Kemba heads to the FT line while his assignment walks to the right elbow 3.  Walker runs into and gets screened by Mitch.  That's giving up 6 points just due to inattention.

First 2Q possession, 4 Knix back.  All 5 Griz bring it up slowly, along with the 5th Knick.  Grimes tells ObiT to pick up the Big on the wing, but ObiT prefers to guard the ballhandling guard, thus for no reason offering Memf two mismatches.  Even worse, both Grimes and ObiT decide to defend the ball, so Brandon Clarke streaks down the side unguarded, gets an easy pass and dunks.  Again 4 Knix were back early and Memf just came downcourt unthreatening at a normal pace.

2 mins into the 2Q, Knix again have 4 guys back, and Griz bring the ball up.  This time it's a 5-on-4 as Burks tripped over a baseline cameraman.  But somehow 3 Griz are open around the arc.  IQ for some reason is in the paint near nobody.  ObiT hedges between the two open right side 3 point shooters.  Another uncontested 3 in transition.

So Knix gave up 11 points in transition on 4 plays in the first 13 minutes of the game, just by being careless and disorganized.  Signs of a bad incohesive team.
Title: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 03, 2022, 08:41:18 AM
If we shoot it better, we win that one

Nice job holding Bane and Morant to 13-45

Our own Walker Burks Grimes and Quickley 5-23

I guess  that Zaire Williams may not have been a failed lottery pick, eh?  heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 03, 2022, 01:39:46 PM
Knix gave up 120 points and your takeaway is the offense was the problem?

Mostly I thought Bane missed a slew of his patented shots, especially pullup midrangers.  Early 3Q, Bane had a wide wide open corner 3 and his shooting mechanics looked odd.  He also made mistakes on D.  Seemed like he was distracted, or not healthy, or NYC got him.

Mitch did lay down some mighty fine D on Ja.   Was like a last season flashback.

3 mins into the 3Q, Knix down 10. Randle completely loses track of his man and comically darts around, while Jaren Jax cans an open 3.  Not sure why his teammates didn't point out where his guy was, or maybe they were saying Cold ... Colder ... Warm.  But Randle really was searching for his man, and went the wrong way a couple times.  Finally just giving up and standing in the paint as the 3 went up and in.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 03, 2022, 03:35:46 PM
I always like your analyses of these "great defensive moments from Knick basketball."

Often I just can't see the floor like that. I'll be struck by the second dunk or wide-open 3 in a row, and want to rewind the tape to find out how the fuck this can be occurring again and again. Sometimes, with Randle, even I can see it, as if it's unfolding in slow motion.
Title: Re: Idea of the Day
Post by: elephant on February 03, 2022, 03:42:45 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on February 03, 2022, 12:17:48 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 01, 2022, 02:28:18 PM

Fournier and Noel for Rubio, Ed Davis, and Dylan Windler would work. We can release Rubio and Davis post trade and still have a roster spot to play with.


Watcha say gentlemen? Offload Fournier (AND Noel) for two guys we're gonna waive and Dylan 2.8 pts a game Windler.

jeezus......got to run to the corner for some ADVIL.


Since Carlos wants Facilitatorn to run the team, I gotta join the chorus to say this little trade/waive idea is about the craziest thing he's written.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 03, 2022, 03:46:04 PM
The King of the Hamsters has written many provocative words of late, but perhaps none so powerful as his vision of a modern Chinese proverb:

警察在我的肛门里给我带来不便

....or

Police inconvenience me in my anus

Which I can see on t-shirts and in fortune cookies the world over.
Title: Re: Idea of the Day
Post by: carlos123 on February 03, 2022, 03:56:06 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 03, 2022, 03:42:45 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on February 03, 2022, 12:17:48 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 01, 2022, 02:28:18 PM

Fournier and Noel for Rubio, Ed Davis, and Dylan Windler would work. We can release Rubio and Davis post trade and still have a roster spot to play with.


Watcha say gentlemen? Offload Fournier (AND Noel) for two guys we're gonna waive and Dylan 2.8 pts a game Windler.

jeezus......got to run to the corner for some ADVIL.


Since Carlos wants Facilitatorn to run the team, I gotta join the chorus to say this little trade/waive idea is about the craziest thing he's written.

I want Fac to COACH the team, provided he has NO SAY ON TRADES. This aint the first or even the tenth crazy trade proposed by Fac. Not as many at Chamaco's hehs, but close enough to have me worried.
Title: Mr. heh (and lol) strikes YET again #43,839
Post by: carlos123 on February 03, 2022, 03:59:25 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on February 03, 2022, 08:41:18 AM
I guess  that Zaire Williams may not have been a failed lottery pick, eh?  heh

Who is he heh-ing now? Himself?

-  Chamaco Cartero is a not-so-great fake-Mexican -
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 03, 2022, 04:03:31 PM
Noel is actually helpful one out of three games at best, and even when he is helpful he is awful.

Kemba does not have enough athleticism left to be anything more than a gadget player in the NBA. To do that he needs to get as fit as Trey Burke. He is not there yet. He may never get there.

Ev has trade value because he can shoot and score.

There is nothing I would not rather task to Sims or Luca that is asked if Noel here.

IQ and Deuce can do everything we get from Kemba, and Rose provides vet leadership already at PG.

Cam and Grimes can take the role Fournier plays. Even if their performance pushes us back we gain by building their experience. Nothing Grimes has done recently leads one to doubt he can play up to Fourniers level.

We would need the first round pick from the Cavs as part of the deal along with a second or two.

We are not making noise this year. All our work going forward should really be about future seasons.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 03, 2022, 05:24:33 PM
Knix gave up 120 points and your takeaway is the offense was the problem?


Well, yeah

I actually watched the game.  You look at numbers and judge.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 03, 2022, 08:10:05 PM
Well, I watched that game.

And as with a lot of Knick losses, the others guys just seemed to have a lot more open looks.

As if they're fast, and we're slow. As if their offensive movement befuddles us. As if our defense just cannot keep up.

So, yeah, the defense is definitely a thing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 03, 2022, 08:14:50 PM
If you are shutting down Ja, yeah, sometimes a Jaire will be open.

Kid made his shots - all credit to him and to Jackson Jr as well.  And certainly credit to Grizz staff who can create proper off-Ja spacing and win on the road with their best not shooting it well.

Meanwhile, sloppy offensive play after sloppy play, poor shot or decision after poor......

And someone clue Bo in that a poor offensive trip can lead to an easy bucket  the other way, contributing to the 120 spot MEM ended up with.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 03, 2022, 08:17:16 PM
I'd be interested to find out how many times the Knicks have come back to win games this year?

It feels like.....not many.

When we lose, we're usually done by the end of the first quarter. Or even before the 2nd team hits the floor.

Derrick Rose, please pick up the white courtesy phone.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 03, 2022, 10:38:44 PM
MEM 13 NYK 11

Alec Burks enters game fo Kemba Walker

MEM 64 NYK 52

Kemba Walker  enters game for Quentin Grimes

Yeah, has to be the starters....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 03, 2022, 11:06:39 PM
Dude, I'm 95% sure you're wrong on this one.

Your pick and choose system of evidence might be what your tribe calls "doing our own research."

But it doesn't take Einstein to discern the pattern. Just go through our losses, one after another, and tell me what you see.

It's not a controversial assertion to say that our starting team [1] sort of stinks and [2] tends to start games badly.

Once behind, the lack of pace with the offense makes it tough to catch up to anybody.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 04, 2022, 12:38:42 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 03, 2022, 08:14:50 PM
If you are shutting down Ja, yeah, sometimes a Jaire will be open.
Kid made his shots - all credit to him and to Jackson Jr as well.  And certainly credit to Grizz staff who can create proper off-Ja spacing and win on the road with their best not shooting it well.

Was an entirely reasonable strategy to lock in on Ja and live with Zaire getting some open looks.  It's just after it wasn't working, you need to adjust.

Quote
And someone clue Bo in that a poor offensive trip can lead to an easy bucket  the other way, contributing to the 120 spot MEM ended up with.

I detailed 4 transition plays in the first 14 mins in which the Knix gave up 11 points to Griz slow breaks. In which the Knix were back but simply failed to match up. These didn't involve screens or tricky cutting, just 4 or 5 guys coming up court slowly and one or more not being guarded (mostly on the right elbow).  Knick transition D was horrid last year as well.

Mitch, Grimes, RJB, Noel.
Everyone else a sub-par defender.

The offense relies too much on the 3-ball.  And besides 4Eva, the 3-point shooting has dropped off from last year.

Maybe Kam can link us up with the Randle-lost-his-man play in the SacKings game.  The comic tension in his confusion, his misdirected effort make for a classic.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 04, 2022, 01:45:26 AM
Offense is too much standing around. Player movement opens up the floor and creates cleaner shots, for three or otherwise.

The transition D is surprisingly bad. The half court defensive issues, especially with the starters can be attributed mainly to the personnel and whatever misapprehension Randle has had about himself since signing his big contract. We do not need him to be the bell cow. We need him to be a very good power forward who plays his ass off for his teammates. That starts with spending his energy on defense and keeping his focus on team objectives and performance, focusing on the play on the floor rather than the refs or the fans.

Kemba is an invitation to drive or use a screen or simply hoist. He does not draw enough charges, come up with enough steals or long rebounds anymore to in any way cover that up. Ev can not keep up with player movement off ball or match an athletic player in athleticism. He does get steals but often throws them away in our disorganized fast breaks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 04, 2022, 08:16:36 AM
It's not a controversial assertion to say that our starting team [1] sort of stinks and [2] tends to start games badly.


We are certainly inconsistent.

And bottom five in points scored in the first quarter (25.8)

 On margin we are actually just a -1.5 points down (24th ) after first quarters.    Memphis is tenth best at +1.1
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 04, 2022, 08:26:30 AM
On the plus side we are 4th in the league in average 4th quarter margin.

Halftimes - we are 18th

3rd quarter is where we again lose it (24th at -1.5)

Yes.  This is the very definition of a team whose starters are a)  still learning to play together  b)  underachieving offensively  c)  often pulled early (see Walker)

Is this the very definition of "bad"?  Not so sure.  Teams still need to game plan for us and give max effort to get the W.  Middle of the bottom of the playoff pack I'd call it.

Where do we go?  Take the higher pick (lottery) by just playing things out - or make the save the season deal?
 Would it be worth it to give an asset or two (as we already did to get Reddish) if we are just to lose in the 7-10 scenario, not advance to an actual series?  NO.

Thus....

We add a player we see as longer term...we sack someone making some cash we could pocket - with maybe a pick......or no deals at all


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 04, 2022, 09:32:24 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 03, 2022, 10:38:44 PM
MEM 13 NYK 11

Alec Burks enters game fo Kemba Walker

MEM 64 NYK 52

Kemba Walker  enters game for Quentin Grimes

Yeah, has to be the starters....

Can someone explain why Walker sat those 18 minutes?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 04, 2022, 10:23:07 AM
With Zaire playing well, there was nowhere to hide Kemba.
His knee is balky and his minutes have to be limited.
Thibs wanted to try RJB at PG.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 04, 2022, 10:24:32 AM
Ben Simmons + Tobias + Danny Green ($79M)
for
Julius Randle + FourEva + Rose + Noel + Kemba ($70M)

Akin to trading Randle + Rose + Noel = Simmons + Green.
And then helping them save good money by swapping Tobias' ridiculous contract for Fournier (with Kemba as ballast)

Knix:
Simmons - Granny Deen - RJB - Tobias - Mitch
2 non-shooters, but real strong on D.
IQ - Grimes - Burks - ObiT - Taj
Burks could start if you want/need a secondary ballhandler/shot creator.

PHI:
Maxey - 4Eva - Thybulle - Randle - Embiid
Rose - Korkmaz - Seth Curry - Niang - Noel

Embiid-Randle combo seems potent.
Has them start two inattentive defenders.  So start Thybulle to compensate.
Rose and Noel would lift their bench.  Kemba gets waived

Randle an upgrade over Tobias and $10M cheaper.
Fournier over Green.
Rose adds a dimension they could really use, and insurance in case Maxey struggles in the playoffs.  Noel lets Embiid get more rest.

Knix could throw in Reddish as well.
Simmons just 25.
Knix would have a ton of yute.  And an elite PG.  Pace and defense would change in a hurry.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 04, 2022, 10:59:49 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 04, 2022, 10:23:07 AM
With Zaire playing well, there was nowhere to hide Kemba.
His knee is balky and his minutes have to be limited.
Thibs wanted to try RJB at PG.

True, may have been the knee

But we gave up 13 points in his 6 minutes and 19 after that.  So check yourself on Kemba's effect on the overall team defense.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 04, 2022, 11:03:02 AM
Re : your deal - not so sure Randle upgrades Harris
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 04, 2022, 11:34:12 AM
Re : your deal - pretty sure Randle isn't on Morey's short, medium or long lists.

藏族、维吾尔族、仓鼠，永远不会被打败！
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 04, 2022, 03:02:31 PM
Clippers have traded Eric Bledsoe, (kid-fave) Justice Wins slow, Keon Johnson (who the Knicks used the Dallas 1st round pick on this past draft) and a future 2nd

for

Normative Powell and Bert Covington

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 04, 2022, 06:52:27 PM
Blazers are in full tank mode.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 04, 2022, 06:58:18 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 04, 2022, 06:52:27 PM
Blazers are in full tank mode.

They are tenth.

I like the deal.   Justise needs to stay healthy.  Very underrated.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 04, 2022, 07:15:24 PM
https://twitter.com/JamesCBundy/status/1489752503726055427?s=20&t=i32shaiF5Mgs_nENB4bw3g (https://twitter.com/JamesCBundy/status/1489752503726055427?s=20&t=i32shaiF5Mgs_nENB4bw3g)

Chip would love this exchange with Randle and Berman.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 04, 2022, 07:21:29 PM
hmmmmm

The New York Knicks have expressed interest in trading for DeAaron Fox. Fox is averaging 21.0 points, 3.8 rebounds and 5.2 assists this season in the Sacramento Kings crowded backcourt. Fox is signed through the 25  26 season.  This has been reported elsewhere, but  Ive heard as well that the Knicks have shown some interest in  DeAaron Fox, said Brian Windhorst on his podcast.  The player that makes the most sense in that swap is Julius Randle. 

 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 04, 2022, 09:29:47 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 04, 2022, 07:15:24 PM
https://twitter.com/JamesCBundy/status/1489752503726055427?s=20&t=i32shaiF5Mgs_nENB4bw3g (https://twitter.com/JamesCBundy/status/1489752503726055427?s=20&t=i32shaiF5Mgs_nENB4bw3g)

Chip would love this exchange with Randle and Berman.

Berman got smacked, lol...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 04, 2022, 09:42:15 PM
http://dailyknicks.com/2022/02/04/julius-randle-just-unfollowed-ny-knicks-instagram/ (http://dailyknicks.com/2022/02/04/julius-randle-just-unfollowed-ny-knicks-instagram/)
Title: Damn Thibs!
Post by: carlos123 on February 04, 2022, 09:52:09 PM
Quote from: Fac on February 04, 2022, 09:42:15 PM
http://dailyknicks.com/2022/02/04/julius-randle-just-unfollowed-ny-knicks-instagram/ (http://dailyknicks.com/2022/02/04/julius-randle-just-unfollowed-ny-knicks-instagram/)

"Randle was incredible last season before a rough playoff series.

It feels like a mix of being heavily overused by Thibs mixed with Randle getting in his head about last season has been an unhealthy mix for his relationship with the Knicks.

I personally do not want to see the Knicks just give Randle away."

"Though I think part of Randles play is his being overworked by coach Thibodeau, it is also clear he has lost his confidence.

It is also important to note that Brian Windhorst mentioned that Randle and Thibs have been at odds to some degree, which Jonathan Macri said on Twitter as the first we have heard of this."

WTF Thibs, first you overwork him and now you do not want him? FU!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 05, 2022, 01:39:19 AM
Good to see the Clips try to make a push despite their stars out, jettisoning useless players for useful ones.  Clips a scrappy bunch.  Did you see Morris Sr and RegJax defeat the Lakes?  Reg Jax skipping upcourt with the ball on the final play and then spinning through a baseline double team and hitting the game winning layup over a 3rd hapless Lake, then dancing through the post-game interview. 

Normative fits right in; Covington will help and keep Batum's mins down.
Just Win has become a 6-6 PF.  Tough, but foul prone.  Needs to get in better shape.  Can't make 3's or FT's.  Bledsoe pretty erratic.
Only question is who plays backup PG for LAC now?
Likely another move coming.  Maybe pick up Kemba or whoever gets waived.

____ - Kennard - T-Man - Covington - Heartofstone
Also Ibaka.  Real nice bench, except no backup PG.
Try to flip Ibaka for a backup PG (Malach Flynn?  McBride? Dragic? another vet?)

Blazers should have cashed in McCollum years ago.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 05, 2022, 12:49:05 PM
Well...if it gets past deadline and CJ/Dame are still in place looks like they run it back one more time next year.  Blazers I have heard were dangling Nurkic with no takers. Could we be in on that?  Looks like they may go full tilt 3 guards when all are healthy with the full development of Simons
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 05, 2022, 03:13:32 PM
I'm thinking CJ/Dame/Simons won't be in place and there's a deal already on the radar to fill holes created by the trade.

Considering what they gave up to get Powell and Covington, Portland fans are not very happy right now.

Running a failed scheme back does not seem smart. Could happen I guess.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 05, 2022, 11:29:14 PM
I miss Mike Miller coaching the Knicks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 05, 2022, 11:31:27 PM
This isn't headline news but.......

We really need a point guard.
Title: We need
Post by: carlos123 on February 05, 2022, 11:41:58 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 05, 2022, 11:31:27 PM
This isn't headline news but.......

We really need a point guard.

And coach Mike Miller.

Quote from: Fac on February 05, 2022, 11:29:14 PM
I miss Mike Miller coaching the Knicks.

Anybody else joining the Mike Miller club? Chip? 🏀😁
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 05, 2022, 11:49:23 PM
Are there some kind of drugs involved here that I'm not aware of?

You see the Knicks lose to the Lakers and you emerge with the words....

MIKE MILLER.

I mean, I'm no stranger to psychotropics, but this sounds rather dangerous.
Title: LSD
Post by: carlos123 on February 06, 2022, 12:20:39 AM
Quote from: elephant on February 05, 2022, 11:49:23 PM
Are there some kind of drugs involved here that I'm not aware with?

You see the Knicks lose to the Lakers and you emerge with the words....

MIKE MILLER.

I mean, I'm no stranger to psychotropics, but this sounds rather dangerous.

I take it you aint joining the club, and thats too bad.

Our main players were obviously tired in the second half, thus turnovers and forced shots.

We didnt have to lose this game. Thibs overworks his players into smithereens while leaving no minutes for the likes of Reddish, who could have spared some RJB, and McBride, imagine, a PG. or barely 11 minutes for Toppin.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 06, 2022, 11:16:51 AM
Fun game.  Lost it on offense again.

Great fight with this group.  It will be a shame to break them up.

 
Title: Re: bloom is off the Rose
Post by: Jack Straw on February 06, 2022, 11:52:46 AM
Quote from: elephant on February 05, 2022, 11:31:27 PM
This isn't headline news but.......
We really need a point guard.

At a fundamental level it's all about this. 

Other than being a feel good story, signing Kemba was a bad idea - wrong guy for the wrong coach at the wrong time in his career.  Rose not signing a starter quality PG is not unlike Cashman not signing a real shortstop last year for the Yankees and going with Gleyber instead - colossal failure.

And yes, Thibs rigidity is getting old.  I'm not on  the Mike Miller bandwagon, but Thibs needs to have his "come to Coughlin moment" and do a major course correct, what worked in last year's bizarro world season is ever so clearly not working now, and Rose needs to tell Thibs he needs to reboot in a big way...

And lastly, there is Leon Rose and co.  What a hash they made of things  last summer.  Much has been made of how signing a failed Celtic back court would not have the desired affect, and esp., would not be simpatico with their hand-picked coach, so no need to repeat.

That once again there is a voluminous disconnect between coach and FO is infuriating.  Rose has until what - Thurs. to rebalance the Knicks or consign this season to the dumpster.  That Rose started off with such promise and went downhill is so quickly quintessentially "Knicks."
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 06, 2022, 12:50:05 PM
I have no problem with the take that signing a not 100 per cent Walker was not wise

But I dont think Leon expected TT to castrate Kemba either.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 06, 2022, 01:14:50 PM
So...

Randle for Fox.

No interest at all (after Bo's brainwashing)?  If there is  interest, what else do we ask in the deal?  2 second rounders do it?

Note:  Mitchell playing well as a starter for Sac.  Picture  Randle playing with Barnes, Haliburton and Davion in the backcourt.  Holmes, Metu, etc.... Hield and Bagley still to deal.  (They are asking a lot for Barnes)
Title: Re: bloom is off the Rose
Post by: facilitatorn on February 06, 2022, 11:46:38 PM
Quote from: Jack Straw on February 06, 2022, 11:52:46 AM
Quote from: elephant on February 05, 2022, 11:31:27 PM
This isn't headline news but.......
We really need a point guard.

At a fundamental level it's all about this. 

Other than being a feel good story, signing Kemba was a bad idea - wrong guy for the wrong coach at the wrong time in his career.  Rose not signing a starter quality PG is not unlike Cashman not signing a real shortstop last year for the Yankees and going with Gleyber instead - colossal failure.

And yes, Thibs rigidity is getting old.  I'm not on  the Mike Miller bandwagon, but Thibs needs to have his "come to Coughlin moment" and do a major course correct, what worked in last year's bizarro world season is ever so clearly not working now, and Rose needs to tell Thibs he needs to reboot in a big way...

And lastly, there is Leon Rose and co.  What a hash they made of things  last summer.  Much has been made of how signing a failed Celtic back court would not have the desired affect, and esp., would not be simpatico with their hand-picked coach, so no need to repeat.

That once again there is a voluminous disconnect between coach and FO is infuriating.  Rose has until what - Thurs. to rebalance the Knicks or consign this season to the dumpster.  That Rose started off with such promise and went downhill is so quickly quintessentially "Knicks."

I am pretty sure Thibs was told from on high that he was going to start Kemba. I am hoping that if he was given that instruction, it was completed with at least through the deadline and then it is up to you. I will feel a lot lot better about management if that is the case. I am a little surprised we have not seen Kemba in an off the bench role. That might still be to come

There was a play against the Lakers while we were still up and they were hunting for mojo where Kemba, by virtue of being picked off his man, was in perfect box out position on AD a little below the free throw line as the shot went up. He released and stepped out of the Key freeing AD for the first or second of his monster follow slams of the evening. I want a point guard who boxes out in that situation. Kemba is small, but not small enough to hide bullshit like that.

We are getting to much of that from too many people this year. It leads me to suspect some acts of bad faith among the higher-ups.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 07, 2022, 12:24:19 AM
Fox and Bagely for Randle and Fournier. Full on youth movement

Mitch Noel Gibson
Obi Bagely
RJ Burks Reddish
Grimes Quickley McBride
Fox Rose Kemba

Sims & Luca on two way deals.

I think that is enough, though i would still love to move Kemba.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 07, 2022, 02:52:31 AM
http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2022/2/6/22920089/the-knicks-should-make-clydes-dream-come-true-by-trading-for-ish-smith (http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2022/2/6/22920089/the-knicks-should-make-clydes-dream-come-true-by-trading-for-ish-smith)

I really like this idea. Could it happen?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 07, 2022, 09:44:26 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 07, 2022, 12:24:19 AM
Fox and Bagley for Randle and Fournier.

Sounds like a Lose-Lose trade.
SacKings have the 29th ranked Defense.  So they're going to add Randle and FourEva?  Also, Fournier is a carbon copy of Hield.
At least Knix could claim to get a starting PG, albeit one that can't defend or make 3's.

The other day TyH had 17 assists. 

Scottie Barnes has been brilliant.  Made two clutch FT's to send a game into OT.  Two games later had the game winning tip in with 0.7 secs left.  Just does some of everything on both ends.  5th in the league  at 36 mins per game.  Top 5 = 4 Raps and Harden.  Barnes played over 50 mins in the 3OT game and was still productive and efficient til the end.

Hope to see some trades go down.  Kings and Blazers could do something substantial.  As for Knix, I'd like to see Fournier go and open time for Grimey and RedCam.  4Eva's value is fairly high right now.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 07, 2022, 09:41:59 PM
Latest is that TT didnt like/want the Reddish deal .  How much will he play Cam the rest of the way?  Could be not so much.  And not so much if at all next year.  SPIDER GETTIN JIMMERED.
Title: Really?
Post by: carlos123 on February 07, 2022, 10:17:19 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on February 07, 2022, 09:41:59 PM
Latest is that TT didnt like/want the Reddish deal .  How much will he play Cam the rest of the way?  Could be not so much.  And not so much if at all next year.  SPIDER GETTIN JIMMERED.

Source?
Could be true, though.

*** Mike Byrd said, "Bitch, you ain't getting into this house." BAM!*** my doggie Les 🐶
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 07, 2022, 11:30:38 PM
Hey, guess what?

We need a point guard.
Title: Really (2)?
Post by: carlos123 on February 07, 2022, 11:45:39 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 07, 2022, 11:30:38 PM
Hey, guess what?

We need a point guard.

Guess whaaaat?

We need a new coach.

All our starters were gassed in the 4th. Just like in LA. Thibs just doesnt learn.

ITS MILLER TIME, BABY!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 08, 2022, 11:14:40 AM
Okay, I'll rise to the bait.

Miller was an interim coach for the Knicks when the team achieved the gaudy heights of 17 wins and 27 losses.

I don't want to ruin your pet project, but you might want to see historically how many times an NBA team re-hired an old coach with a losing record.

I'm sure it's possible. Just as I think it's possible that Jesus will glide down to earth any day now on a fiery surfboard.

I just wouldn't put any wagers on the matter.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 08, 2022, 11:51:56 AM
First 3 halfcourt possessions, Utah goes at 4Eva with three different players (Bogey, Conley then Mitchell).  Go for the soft underbelly ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 08, 2022, 12:01:26 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 06, 2022, 11:16:51 AM
Fun game.  Lost it on offense again.

Great fight with this group.  It will be a shame to break them up.

I'm sympathetic with this comment. I like most of our guys too, and that's something I couldn't always say in the past.

But it seems obvious that they're not working well together, and that won't radically change soon. Something has to give.

I'd be quite surprised if a big trade doesn't emerge.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 08, 2022, 12:05:42 PM
When we played Utah last night, I couldn't help thinking,

Damn. How dominant might we be with a Donovan Mitchell?

Fire, leadership, impact. We've got nothing like that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 08, 2022, 01:22:08 PM
Uh, we don't even have a Mike Conley ...

Kemba was a Plan C, after the Knix failed to prioritize signing a starting level PG, or otherwise failed to do so. Kemba as a one year stop-gap was acceptable once options (and cap space) were limited.  It's the 2nd year for Walker which is/will be problematic.

I would have knocked myself out to sign a FA PG such as FVV or BallZo.  Even if they don't prove a good fit or aren't really the guy you want, it gets you in the conversation for further trades.  Later if desired you can swap out an FVV/ZoBall for a Brogdon/Brunson/DeJounte (ideally TyH or Shai).  Both FVV and ZoBall are solid defenders, which should fit Thibs well.

RedCam had a pretty interesting 2Q stint.  Made two nice cuts into the paint.  Passed to a wide open Burks who missed the straightaway 3.  Hounded Conley one possession.  Then got a steal.  Also missed a FT, got stripped on the break after the steal, and his first 3 was an airball.  He's a wildcard.  But I liked his effort on both ends.  Hell, it's good to just see a Knick cut towards the rim.  (Obit does it some).

I even liked Red Dish doling out a hard foul.  When Mitch was dominating the boards and dunking like mad, I kept wanting Udoka to just knock Mitch down one time.  I guess that's gone out of fashion, but hell if Im letting a guy pummel me silly over and over.  Send a message and make Mitch pick himself up and make some FT's.
Title: Ty H on the move.
Post by: Kam on February 08, 2022, 01:54:13 PM
Kings trade Haliburton and Heild for Sabonis.   Indiana has a new backcourt with Ty and Lavert.
Title: Re: Ty H on the move.
Post by: chipstern on February 08, 2022, 01:58:00 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 08, 2022, 01:54:13 PM
Kings trade Haliburton and Heild for Sabonis.   Indiana has a new backcourt with Ty and Lavert.

Holy SHIT!

Did not see THAT ONE coming. 

Sabonis
Jeremy Lamb
Justin Holiday to Sacramento

Hailburton
Buddy Hield
Tristan Thompson to Indiana
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 08, 2022, 01:59:31 PM
Kings are idiots. 

We should have traded Randle plus for TyH and Hield.
Title: DUH
Post by: chipstern on February 08, 2022, 02:01:38 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 08, 2022, 01:59:31 PM
Kings are idiots. 

We should have traded Randle plus for TyH and Hield.

Hey Trader Vic, did it occur to you that the Kings said

NO!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 08, 2022, 02:02:03 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 08, 2022, 12:05:42 PM
When we played Utah last night, I couldn't help thinking,

Damn. How dominant might we be with a Donovan Mitchell?

Fire, leadership, impact. We've got nothing like that.

Don't give up the dream. There has been chatter....first, we would certainly need another Utah fail.
Title: Re: DUH
Post by: lesterluv on February 08, 2022, 02:04:22 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 08, 2022, 02:01:38 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 08, 2022, 01:59:31 PM
Kings are idiots. 

We should have traded Randle plus for TyH and Hield.

Hey Trader Vic, did it occur to you that the Kings said

NO!

lol...Kings would have done that 4 sure.

And the Knicks were FVV's first choice all along. But we forgot to axe.

And the police have nothing to do with China's health code app, absolutely nothing! NOTHING I SAY!!!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 08, 2022, 02:07:44 PM
For TyH, I would have tossed in plenty more.
Missed op for NYK.

McCollum and Nance to NOPe for garbage and a 1st rounder.
Title: Pacers
Post by: chipstern on February 08, 2022, 02:09:21 PM
Haliburton, Brogdan, McConnell, LaVert, Hield, Duarte, Stepenson

Kind of a crowded back court. 

Lot of 3-guard/wings in Carlisle's future. 

Isiah Jackson their new PF [we passed at #19] next to Myles Turner with Duarte [and TJ Warren eventually] at SF

Sabonis signed for 19.4 through 2024, so better numbers for Kings than Randle.  Signals a commitment to Fox, does it not? 

Once again, all of the Blogosphere Bullshit, the trades which go down? 

YOU NEVER SEE THEM COMING.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 08, 2022, 02:10:16 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 08, 2022, 02:07:44 PM
For TyH, I would have tossed in plenty more.
Missed op for NYK.

McCollum and Nance to NOPe for garbage and a 1st rounder.

Bullshit. 

Clearly, Knicks were NEVER in discussion. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 08, 2022, 02:15:59 PM
TyH was available and the Knix couldn't figure out a way to get him.
Missed op.
Title: Rise to the bait
Post by: carlos123 on February 08, 2022, 02:17:15 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 08, 2022, 11:14:40 AM
Okay, I'll rise to the bait.

Miller was an interim coach for the Knicks when the team achieved the gaudy heights of 17 wins and 27 losses.

I don't want to ruin your pet project, but you might want to see historically how many times an NBA team re-hired an old coach with a losing record.

I'm sure it's possible. Just as I think it's possible that Jesus will glide down to earth any day now on a fiery surfboard.

I just wouldn't put any wagers on the matter.

elephant, you can't attribute that season record to Miller. Remember, Fizzy started 4-18:

"New York could only take so much, and after a 4-18 start Fizdale was shown the door. Overall Fizdale would end with a 21-83 record in the Big Apple. Once Mike Miller got the clipboard there was nowhere to go but up.

Under Mike Miller the Knicks have played better basketball, but for the most part it is still losing basketball. Through 36 games Miller has guided the Knicks to a 9-17 record, even having the team 6-4 in their last ten games at one point."

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/k65Dky3uyoU/maxresdefault.jpg)

And no, I do not believe that "Jesus will glide down to earth any day now on a fiery surfboard."
Title: Obi Kanoobee
Post by: chipstern on February 08, 2022, 02:21:47 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 08, 2022, 02:15:59 PM
TyH was available and the Knix couldn't figure out a way to get him.
Missed op.

TWO

Missed

Opportunities
Title: Re: Pacers
Post by: bodiddley on February 08, 2022, 02:41:16 PM
It's really just Haliburton, Brogdan, Duarte going forward. 
And I guess they'll see if Brogdon fits or gets moved.
Same with Hield, though an outside sniper is useful.  Just don't expect Hield to do anything else.  Hield is likely to be moved again later.

They've got MyTurn down low (next season).  So just need to draft a PF, or trade Brogdon for one.  Offer them a Randle-Brogdon swap?

I hate when one of my favorite players gets exiled to some struggling team.  Like Bernard to Washington.  I've already been losing track of Brogdon the past couple of years. 

Never understood why the Sabonis-Turner pairing didn't click.  Though IND continually had bad luck with injuries.
Title: Re: Pacers
Post by: chipstern on February 08, 2022, 02:47:16 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 08, 2022, 02:41:16 PM
It's really just Haliburton, Brogdan, Duarte going forward. 
And I guess they'll see if Brogdon fits or gets moved.
Same with Hield, though an outside sniper is useful.  Just don't expect Hield to do anything else.  Hield is likely to be moved again later.

They've got MyTurn down low (next season).  So just need to draft a PF, or trade Brogdon for one.  Offer them a Randle-Brogdon swap?[/i]

I hate when one of my favorite players gets exiled to some struggling team.  Like Bernard to Washington.  I've already been losing track of Brogdon the past couple of years. 

Never understood why the Sabonis-Turner pairing didn't click.  Though IND continually had bad luck with injuries.

They have Isiah Jackson at PF.   

They need a SF.  Assuming what's his name can't come back. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 08, 2022, 04:46:35 PM
We still have an open spot to offer one of the post trade cut guys if anyone interesting gets let go.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 08, 2022, 04:52:16 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 08, 2022, 04:46:35 PM
We still have an open spot to offer one of the post trade cut guys if anyone interesting gets let go.

Swell

More options for Thibs not to deploy

Don't want Deuce to get lonesome on the pine...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 08, 2022, 11:24:48 PM
Realistically at this point we can gather the fifth or sixth most ping pong balls. It is officially time to think about who we are tanking for.

That took a minute.

Keegan Murray of Iowa
Title: Re: Pacers
Post by: bodiddley on February 09, 2022, 01:26:10 AM
Quote from: chipstern on February 08, 2022, 02:47:16 PM
They have Isiah Jackson at PF.   
They need a SF.  Assuming what's his name can't come back.
Isiah Jax has played over 20 mins twice in his 19 game career.  Just put together 3 strong games.  #22 pick.  Blocks and fouls a lot.  Jury very much out.

TJ Warren has been out of commission for quite some time.

Duarte and Hield can play SF.
So I'd still target a PF, but a combo F would work.
Look to flip Hield for a guy who cares.  Jerami Grant? 

Brogdon - TyH - Tor Craig/TJ Warren - Jerami Grant - MyTurn
Who knows, INDy always looks good on paper.
But Brog and TyH are unselfish heady players
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 09, 2022, 02:09:17 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 08, 2022, 11:24:48 PM
Realistically at this point we can gather the fifth or sixth most ping pong balls. It is officially time to think about who we are tanking for.

Uh, right now, Knix are 10th draft seed and with Beal done, expect WASh to slide below us.  So Knix can expect around the 11th pick.
 
Pels improved, could conceivably catch us. 
Blazers just dumped 3/5ths of their starters, while a 4th (Lillard) is out. 
Always some talent in that 10-12 range if you can look past Donovan Mitch being short or TyH having a funky release.

The blown Frank and Knox picks in B2B years really set the Knix back.
Good thing we got Mitch in the Knox year.
Frank coulda been Spider Mitchell or Bam Adebayo.
Knox coulda been either Bridges, Shai or Porter Jr.
Any one of those players would help tremendously.
But if we drafted Donovan and a Bridges ... or Shai and Bam.  The whole franchise trajectory would be very different.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 09, 2022, 09:19:34 AM
Knick Trivia:

How many high schools did Obadiah Toppin Jr. attend?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 09, 2022, 09:45:45 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 09, 2022, 02:09:17 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 08, 2022, 11:24:48 PM
Realistically at this point we can gather the fifth or sixth most ping pong balls. It is officially time to think about who we are tanking for.

Uh, right now, Knix are 10th draft seed and with Beal done, expect WASh to slide below us.  So Knix can expect around the 11th pick.
 


You can't predict how the Wiz will do sans-Beal, these things are funny. Other guys start to click. And it is easy to imagine the Pelicans and Spurs passing us, if we emphasized losing, or even the Kings now with a frontcourt stud, or the Pacers, cause Ty H is the best thing since....lol.

But it doesn't matter one whit as I've explained to folks a hundred times and past results have completely validated....Silver fixed it. The slot jostle is so worthless that spending time thinking about it is as stupid as saying the police have absolutely nothing to do with the Chinese health code app they developed.

Let's go win.

由于突然封锁，我的相亲持续了三周！幸运的是，他是一位出色的厨师。
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 09, 2022, 10:15:45 AM
Just finished the 2nd half of the UTA game.

Knix indeed ran out of gas. 
Mitch was huffing from the 3Q on.  Played a killer game, but a tired Mitch got beat to a rebound by Donovan, who fed Doka for a layup putting the Jazz up by 3 with 4 mins left.  After that, Knix failed to score for the next 3 minutes and that was that.
I think Mitch had just two 2nd half points.

Fournier was involved in a whole slew of late 4Q turnovers, twice failed handoffs (w/Randle, then w/Burks in crunch time); 4Eva also dribbled off his own foot.
4Ev started the game getting chumped on D, ended by losing the ball every which way.  Easy to see why FourEva gets shuffled around.  Just not a winning player. 

Randle and RJB looked worn down and couldn't make plays late.
What's happened to Burks scoring the past month?

UTAh announcers pretty solid.  Thurl Bailey does solid analysis, a bit staid but informative.  They brought Joe Ingles into the booth for an extended stretch.  Talked about his injury, career, family, future.  They asked him to help the viewers know what plays Utah would run, and Ingles glances at Donovan crossing midcourt and correctly informs a high Udoka screen for Mitchell, before it starts to develop.
The crew also seemed quite fond of Burks.  Utah loyalty.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on February 09, 2022, 11:38:04 AM
Burke and Quikz,  The problem seems to be Thibs, this guy is stubborn as fuk. We are not going to make the playoffs play the rooks, lets see what we got...MCbride is electric as is Obi and Grimes I also want to see what we got in Reddish, he was a beast in Atlanta. This league has turned into a run and gun league thibs still play halfcourt ball.  That may work in spurts but teams are running us out the building. The offense need to change... Free Mike Woodson.
Title: Really? (3)
Post by: carlos123 on February 09, 2022, 03:06:48 PM
Quote from: jaqdavisone on February 09, 2022, 11:38:04 AM
... Free Mike Woodson.

Mike Woodson had a good run in 2013 when Jason Kidd was really running the team. His major accomplishment was getting out of the way. He had to be fired, with his whole coaching staff, the following season, after a disastrous start. He had one play, and one play only: GIVE IT TO MELO!, which could now be easily transposed to GIVE IT TO JULIUS!

Thankfully, he is happily "retired" coaching college basketball in his beloved Indiana.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLW75B7a0sEXUuBTbIC_E9NE2T1kBiBAxYQ3rSBtG77v00SxG4QZA3vYcBxf_REtKqZUVEmSc9203ZPNBgWmfVmNhnWXcA-AmNPJ3qUdV-J_bZu7zO1SxbL36dyDGESRk9puVW6g2fBHDEswYzgiwnp2=w1019-h319-no?authuser=0)

He would not be much worse than Thibs for this team, so there is that.
Title: Normal as Fickety Fackety Wackity Fuk!!!
Post by: lesterluv on February 09, 2022, 04:07:25 PM
Japan to screen athletes devices after Winter Olympics over Covid-19 app fears

https://www.scmp.com/news/asia/southeast-asia/article/3166361/coronavirus-japan-screen-athletes-devices-after-winter

The Japanese government had previously urged those travelling to China for the Games to prepare an alternative device specifically for the My2022 app and to keep its use to a minimum and delete the app upon leaving China.

British media reported before the Games that a total of seven Western countries, including Britain and the United States, had called for their athletes not to take personal smartphones with them.

Around 1,000 athletes and coaches reportedly plan to discard the phones they use at the Games.

你说的是Advil？ 你真的在谈论Advil吗？ 不，我们不是在谈论Advil，笨蛋！
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 09, 2022, 04:11:04 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 08, 2022, 02:15:59 PM
TyH was available and the Knix couldn't figure out a way to get him.
Missed op.

Or...they are not quite as enamored as you are.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 09, 2022, 05:54:33 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 09, 2022, 10:15:45 AM
They brought Joe Ingles into the booth for an extended stretch.  Talked about his injury, career, family, future.  They asked him to help the viewers know what plays Utah would run, and Ingles glances at Donovan crossing midcourt and correctly informs a high Udoka screen for Mitchell, before it starts to develop.
The crew also seemed quite fond of Burks.  Utah loyalty.

And then Ingles got dealt to Portland.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 09, 2022, 06:31:19 PM
He is out for the season, they got two ambulatory players, and he is free to come back next year if that is where the market takes him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 09, 2022, 08:33:22 PM
Nibbles at seemingly available threesome of Julius, Fournier and Burks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 09, 2022, 08:38:43 PM
PG watch

Knicks consider Dragic

Campazzo available after my guy Hyland sends him to bench

So...who you want?

Barrett out tomorrow
Title: Over Under
Post by: chipstern on February 09, 2022, 08:44:11 PM
What's the over-under on the Knicks doing nothing at the trading deadline?

Meanwhile, got to hand it to Thibs, the wily bastard. 

He figured out the perfect way to cop minutes for Cam Reddish.

Leave RJ in during Gar-Baaaage time, where he can sprain his ankle during meaninless minutes with the bottom of the bench. 

Tom's rationalization, that he had RJ in there because the Knicks were making a run at the Nuggets lead, is...interesting. 

Save that when RJ got hurt, Miles McBride was on the court, and we all know how much faith Thibs has to give him the ball and run the point. 
Title: Hindsight
Post by: chipstern on February 09, 2022, 08:59:26 PM
I have distinct memories of Forum Empathy Champion LesterDawg, pissing on poor woebegone Elfrid Payton every chance he got last year. 

True, every time EP hit a three, an angel got it's wings, and his FT% was under .700, but he competed hard on defense, and he ruddered the offense.  Obviously, D-Rose ruddered it better, but in the absence of Elfrid, we get the Earthly Remains Of Kemba [utterly overmatched on D], a game but overmatched Burks, and a guard in IQ who prospered as a sixth man playing off the ball in the second unit with Rose, but is desperately struggling as a PG, which has totally queered his offensive game. 

Still, McBride is buried on the pine. 

Anyway, Dawg and all New York wanted Payton gone. 

Not saying I woulda kept him.  His confidence was shot by the playoffs, having been clearly rejected by the media and fan base. 

Still, Knicks fans, be careful what you wish for motherfuckers.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on February 09, 2022, 09:42:24 PM
Whew...Chip resurrecting the earthly remains (one of my fav Chipsterisms) of Elfrid "4 on 5" Payton...Kemba's  not close to the answer and never was, but neither was Payton

https://nypost.com/2022/02/09/knicks-hire-gersson-rosas-as-consultant-ahead-of-nba-trade-deadline/ (https://nypost.com/2022/02/09/knicks-hire-gersson-rosas-as-consultant-ahead-of-nba-trade-deadline/)

so  this is what its come down to...hiring a FO guy some 24 hrs before the trade deadline...if bloomin' rose is so out of his depth then  he should have hired someone like this when he first  came on...and also isn't Perry supposed to be the experienced FO guy?

Rose, unless he pulls something exceptional out of his asshat in the next 24 is just another,  in a long line of,  pathetic Knicks poohbahs
Title: Mish Mosh By Committee
Post by: chipstern on February 09, 2022, 10:08:33 PM
Quote from: Jack Straw on February 09, 2022, 09:42:24 PM
Whew...Chip resurrecting the earthly remains (one of my fav Chipsterisms) of Elfrid "4 on 5" Payton...Kemba's  not close to the answer and never was, but neither was Payton

https://nypost.com/2022/02/09/knicks-hire-gersson-rosas-as-consultant-ahead-of-nba-trade-deadline/ (https://nypost.com/2022/02/09/knicks-hire-gersson-rosas-as-consultant-ahead-of-nba-trade-deadline/)

so  this is what its come down to...hiring a FO guy some 24 hrs before the trade deadline...if bloomin' rose is so out of his depth then  he should have hired someone like this when he first  came on...and also isn't Perry supposed to be the experienced FO guy?

Rose, unless he pulls something exceptional out of his asshat in the next 24 is just another,  in a long line of,  pathetic Knicks poohbahs

Seems like a case of too many cooks. 

Rose & WWWes are from the agent/biz side of the aisle. 

Walt Perrin was a top collegiate talent evaulator for the Jazz, responsible for many fine draft picks, including Gordon Hayward and Rudy Gobert.  He campaigned HARD for the Jazz to trade up with the Nuggets to pick Donovan Mitchell.  Assuming he had some say, Obi, IQ, Grimes,

Brock Aller was a top capologist for the Cavs. 

Scott Perry was kept on board. 

A few obervations. 

As per BoD [and me], I was all in for Haliburton at #8 two years ago.  Good size, long arms and hands, very good defender, funky release but his threes go in, and he can rudder an offense...think he had like 17 assists against someone the other night. 

Rose, as chief pooh bah, clearly had considerable say in picking Toppin. 

I gather the thinking was that Julius would be offloaded last season, and Obi was his successor. 

Funky to consider that Obi was a CAA Client, and correct me if I'm wrong, that Rose's son was Obi's agent. 

WWWes had considerable say in the maneuvering and selection of IQ. 

Thibs was hot to trot for both Grimes and McBride, pre-draft. 

One our European scouts clearly had Rokas Jokubaitis on his radar. 

Perry?  Pre-free agency, he was lobbying hard for DeMar DeRozan, and while I like Fournier, and his long range shootintg skills, DeRozan is a more crafty vet presence, a better defender, and a deadly presence in the mid-range, both as a shooter and facilitator.  He helped transform the Bulls culture. 

Apparently the committe didn't think Lonzo Ball was worth 20 million a year.  I beg to differ, even as a place holder, great size and handle, good defender, much improved as a three point shooter, and over the years has increased his forays into the paint and free throw efficiency.   

One has to think that Thibs had considerable input on retaining Burks, Noel and Rose on 2+1 deals.  Fournier?  Hard to say.  Was considerable noise for offense.  Gotta believe Thibs wanted to retain Bullock. 

Kemba?  That feels like Rose.  Show biz, local boy makes good. 

Hey, ain't gonna front...I was excited by the signing.

It didn't work out, and now we have that 2 year contract. 

If your standard for judgement is Rose pulling something out of his ass in the next 24 hours, well, I think you are going to be dissappointed. 

TO BE A KNICKS FAN IS TO SUFFER. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 09, 2022, 10:15:08 PM
Ingles talked about possibly being dealt before the deadline.  Apparently the deal saves the Jazz $11M in lux tax.  He also reminisced about just trying to make the Clips team and, being the last guy, he made sure to just pass to Eric Gordon every time.  Said his early goal was to stay in the League 3 years to qualify for a pension.
Felt blessed to be in Utah so long.  Talked about being able to find your role and fit in the NBA.  Praised Utah's continuity.  Talked about putting together a medical and rehab team, and stressed the addition of a sports psychologist.  His wife is a marathoner and he expects her to guide and push him through rehab.

Was a good long chat during the game.  A nice send-away, as it turns out, for Ingles. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 09, 2022, 10:27:39 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 09, 2022, 04:11:04 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 08, 2022, 02:15:59 PM
TyH was available and the Knix couldn't figure out a way to get him.
Missed op.

Or...they are not quite as enamored as you are.

Apparently.
TyH:
46 / 41 / 83
That's good for 14th best 3Pt%.
7.4 assists / 4 Boards / 1.7 steals
11th in the League in assists
Tied for 5th in steals

A real heady two-way player.  When he was drafted he had a combo G label but folks didn't expect him to be so good as a PG.  TyH could shoot more, get more FT's, and probably should cut way down on jumping in the air before passing.
Just a very smooth game, keeps things simple, great feel for the game. Love watching him play.  And he plays the passing lanes and anticipates well on D.
There was just a different energy and cohesiveness for SacKings when TyH was on court.  Otherwise the whole team seemed mopey and out for their own stats (especially Fox & Hield).  TyH brought energy, joy and a desire to win.

And yeah, 17 assists from a guy not considered a PG not long ago is impressive.
Just 21 and making a meager $5M.

Knix last 4 minutes v. UTAh, demonstrated the glaring need for a ballhandler/decision-maker/passer.  Instead of fumbled handoffs and 4Eva dribbling off his own foot.  While Randle and RJB tried to create.
Title: Re: Hindsight
Post by: elephant on February 09, 2022, 10:34:42 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 09, 2022, 08:59:26 PM
Anyway, Dawg and all New York wanted Payton gone. 

Not saying I woulda kept him.  His confidence was shot by the playoffs, having been clearly rejected by the media and fan base. 

Still, Knicks fans, be careful what you wish for motherfuckers.

Is there a Knick fan on Planet Earth who regrets that Payton is gone?
Title: Re: Hindsight
Post by: chipstern on February 09, 2022, 10:41:36 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 09, 2022, 10:34:42 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 09, 2022, 08:59:26 PM
Anyway, Dawg and all New York wanted Payton gone. 

Not saying I woulda kept him.  His confidence was shot by the playoffs, having been clearly rejected by the media and fan base. 

Still, Knicks fans, be careful what you wish for motherfuckers.

Is there a Knick fan on Planet Earth who regrets that Payton is gone?

(https://media1.giphy.com/media/1d5WBQ2nAmYGgdbqDF/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 09, 2022, 11:05:45 PM
Quote from: jaqdavisone on February 09, 2022, 11:38:04 AM
Burke and Quikz,  The problem seems to be Thibs, this guy is stubborn as fuk. We are not going to make the playoffs play the rooks, lets see what we got...MCbride is electric as is Obi and Grimes I also want to see what we got in Reddish, he was a beast in Atlanta. This league has turned into a run and gun league thibs still play halfcourt ball.  That may work in spurts but teams are running us out the building. The offense need to change... Free Mike Woodson.

Um, I don't know about the Woodson part, but I agree with a lot of this. The offense is conceptually challenged. We're more predictable than our opponents. And yeah, it feels like this is a Thibs thing.

But probably a bigger problem for him is a defense that, even with a rising Robinson, seems to be getting worse and worse.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 09, 2022, 11:23:29 PM
Knicks defense was excellent  vs Utah


Quote of the day from Thibs -

"There isnt a big difference between winning and losing in this league."
Title: Re: Hindsight
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 09, 2022, 11:28:20 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 09, 2022, 08:59:26 PM
I have distinct memories of Forum Empathy Champion LesterDawg, pissing on poor woebegone Elfrid Payton every chance he got last year. 

True, every time EP hit a three, an angel got it's wings, and his FT% was under .700, but he competed hard on defense, and he ruddered the offense.  Obviously, D-Rose ruddered it better, but in the absence of Elfrid, we get the Earthly Remains Of Kemba [utterly overmatched on D], a game but overmatched Burks, and a guard in IQ who prospered as a sixth man playing off the ball in the second unit with Rose, but is desperately struggling as a PG, which has totally queered his offensive game. 

Still, McBride is buried on the pine. 

Anyway, Dawg and all New York wanted Payton gone. 

Not saying I woulda kept him.  His confidence was shot by the playoffs, having been clearly rejected by the media and fan base. 

Still, Knicks fans, be careful what you wish for motherfuckers.

Like I said -whats done is done - who do you want?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 09, 2022, 11:54:58 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 09, 2022, 11:23:29 PM
Knicks defense was excellent  vs Utah

Hardly.  Fournier was particularly bad.  There was one play where 4Eva's man, Barton trots from the left box, along the baseline and relocates to the right corner.  For some reason, 4Ev just doesn't bother to go with him, then lingers in the restricted zone a few beats, then as the ball is swung realizes he probably should see where his man went.  Meanwhile a pick has formed in his path and Barton gets a wide open 3. 

Utah got lots of open 3's.  Now they run some tricky actions and even on replay it wasn't easy to see exactly where Knix D went wrong.  Mitch had a killer 1st half.
But the perimeter D was poor.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 10, 2022, 04:33:22 AM
We may have been better served playing the rooks from the get go rather than the free agent adds. The D and energy would be worlds better and our main offensive cogs were still in place both on the starting unit and off the bench.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 10, 2022, 09:36:23 AM
Knicks getting Dragic and picks.  May include Lakers 2027 #1.

Gone will be

Noel
Reddish
Burks

T H Tucker in deal plus maybe Nunn.  NY may also get a Raptors pick.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 10, 2022, 09:51:41 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 10, 2022, 04:33:22 AM
We may have been better served playing the rooks from the get go rather than the free agent adds. The D and energy would be worlds better and our main offensive cogs were still in place both on the starting unit and off the bench.

Players often are what they are.  Often just improve or they do not.  Regardless of playing time.  To think Toppin would be this incredible beast by now had he just been playing 30 minutes per night is silly.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 10, 2022, 10:11:48 AM
Elfrid. We talking about Elfrid this morning.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on February 10, 2022, 10:17:38 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on February 10, 2022, 10:11:48 AM
Elfrid. We talking about Elfrid this morning.

could be worse, could be still talking about Lavor Postell
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 10, 2022, 10:49:39 AM
lol, lol, lol... folks having difficulties with this season really need to keep things in perspective.


*** or how about those 10-post threads on.....Toure Murry!

Toure Ahmad Khalid-Murry is an American professional basketball player for BC Ternopil of the Ukrainian Basketball SuperLeague.
Title: Keep Red Dish
Post by: bodiddley on February 10, 2022, 11:13:42 AM
Quote
The Los Angeles Lakers, New York Knicks, and Toronto Raptors discussed a three-team trade at length Wednesday night into Thursday morning. The framework would send Cam Reddish and Alec Burks to the Lakers, Goran Dragic and draft pick compensation to the Knicks, and Talen Horton-Tucker and Nerlens Noel to the Raptors, league sources told HoopsHype.

Toronto discussed sending a first-round pick, and the Lakers discussed sending a second-round pick to the Knicks, HoopsHype has learned. As conversations continued, the Knicks sought additional draft compensation.

Knix would drop off $19M in salary next year (Burks $10M & Noel $9M).
Would make re-signing Mitch a priority.  Which probably was true anyway, since MitchRob has been showing flashes of (contract year) beast mode, while Nawlins is always dinged up.

Unclear if Dragic is ready/able/willing to play.  But its the salary dump and draft picks the Knix want.  Lakes don't have an available 1st rounder until 2027, and since LeBon will be gone by then, they are wary of trading that without lotto protecting it.

I'd much rather trade 4Eva to the Lakes and Noel to TOR and keep Reddish.
Lakes have: A Very Bradley, Monk, Reaves at SG
Plus StanJohnson and then Burks.  Hard to see how Reddish would fit in.
Maybe just A Very injury insurance.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 10, 2022, 11:29:44 AM
Its a good deal unless you are stuck on Reddish helping next season and in future.  But if Thibs isn't on board with him..

Would like a look at Dragic giving us a 3 lefty lineup.  But no way he stays past this year
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 10, 2022, 12:03:36 PM
Bo

Reddish is 6-8+.  Not a 2 guard.

Its all about mix in LA.  THT looked good for a while but has waned.

Burks of course needed for ball handling.  Palinka being criticized lately for allowing both Schroder and Caruso to depart.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 10, 2022, 12:09:02 PM
22 and 14 for Sabonis in debut.  Fox back.  Kings have become interesting.

I like that they and the Pelicans are chasing playoffs rather than picks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 10, 2022, 12:25:01 PM
Casting off Caruso was a mistake as he plays solid D too.
Celts reportedly were looking to move Schroder.  Not a team player.

TOR has been playing great, but has 4 starters in the Top 5 for minutes played.
And they've been getting away with skinny Siakim and rook Barnes at C.
Great switchy 2-way starting 5, but desperately need a bench.  Achiuwa and Boucher their only semi-reliable 2nd unit guys, and both are young.  They need a rim protecting C, even if Noel is rather thin to battle Embiid or Time Lord.  I like that they are considering going for it this wide open year.

I see RedDish as a wing.  And a worthwhile long term project.
Hope Lakes don't think Burks can play backup PG for them.

Question: Why doesn't TOR just deal directly with NYK?
Dragic and a 1st rounder for Burks and Noel.  Knix keep Reddish.
Burks steadier and more versatile than THT.  Has shown he can lead/help a 2nd unit.  Only take on one a year commitment to Burks and Noel (team option the following year), instead of 2 more years for THT.  THT of course younger, but erratic.
I'd prefer adding vets.

Ditching Hield gets more looks for Barnes, hopefully getting him more engaged. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 10, 2022, 12:42:32 PM
Celtics have actually been busy turning down offers for Schroder
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 10, 2022, 12:43:58 PM
Raptors obviously like THT - and reportedly Nun - over Burks
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 10, 2022, 01:08:40 PM
One hour 52 minutes....

Milwaukee gets IBAKA.  Nice add.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 10, 2022, 01:16:06 PM
Kings got their guy Divincenzo in that Ibaka deal.   Sending Bagley out to Detroit. 
 
Kings - interesting
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 10, 2022, 01:17:39 PM
Dragic just Sent to SPURS, with  thefirst rounder

Raptors  get Thaddeous Young and the underrated Drew Eubanks
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 10, 2022, 01:19:06 PM
Still waiting on a Mavericks move

Harden to Sixers is stuck.  Nets want the world, unerstandably.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 10, 2022, 01:32:43 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 10, 2022, 01:19:06 PM
Still waiting on a Mavericks move

Harden to Sixers is stuck.  Nets want the world, unerstandably.

Well...

now a done deal.  Nets get Curry and Drummond, Sixers add Millsap.

Nets also get 2 first rounders of course

Win-win for the teams.  Sixers or  Nets will win the NBA title.

Will check back later to comment on Knicks deal.
Title: KP TRADED
Post by: Kam on February 10, 2022, 02:44:02 PM
For Dinwiddie and Bertans.
Title: Re: KP TRADED
Post by: carlos123 on February 10, 2022, 03:08:46 PM
Quote from: Kamster on February 10, 2022, 02:44:02 PM
For Dinwiddie and Bertans.

Hey Kamster, I know is not easy to come up with something as good as the salads in Dallas, but "KP seeks statehood for D.C." lacks something about KP playing second, or third, fiddle, that is when he is not hurt -most of the time.

How about something like KP gets a meal for Beal. I am sure you can come up with something better. Please give it a try. You can do it!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 10, 2022, 03:47:39 PM
Come on, man!

You can't do better than "KP seeks statehood for D.C."

It's a minimalist masterpiece.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 10, 2022, 03:51:06 PM
The KP trade made me laugh out loud!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 10, 2022, 03:51:30 PM
I can't be depressed with the Knicks here, given that I didn't even have a single practical trade that I was yearning for.

So I can't be depressed with the Knicks,

only.....

I am.

As a certain poet has sung many times,

To be a Knicks fan is to suffer!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 10, 2022, 04:03:02 PM
 Pacers pick up Jalen Smith to help with frontcourt loss of Sabonis

Nice.
Title: Kamsters dictums
Post by: carlos123 on February 10, 2022, 04:27:20 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 10, 2022, 03:47:39 PM
Come on, man!

You can't do better than "KP seeks statehood for D.C."

It's a minimalist masterpiece.

Well, ok, whatever...

But I miss the "KP tosses salads in Dallas". That one was a true masterpiece.

Hey, how did your "can't" survive truncation? And "It's" too! Amazing!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 10, 2022, 04:53:30 PM
You have somehow cracked the code.

The Knicks should pickup Robert Woodard III off waivers. He is a definite Thibs guy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 10, 2022, 06:41:40 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 10, 2022, 04:53:30 PM
You have somehow cracked the code.

The Knicks should pickup Robert Woodard III off waivers. He is a definite Thibs guy.

Take a deep breath.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 10, 2022, 07:30:40 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 10, 2022, 04:53:30 PM
You have somehow cracked the code.

The Knicks should pickup Robert Woodard III off waivers. He is a definite Thibs guy.

I love your posts that  fix the team

heh
Title: Mr. heh (and lol) strikes YET again #43,839
Post by: carlos123 on February 10, 2022, 08:23:15 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on February 10, 2022, 07:30:40 PM
Quote from: Fac on February 10, 2022, 04:53:30 PM
You have somehow cracked the code.

The Knicks should pickup Robert Woodard III off waivers. He is a definite Thibs guy.

I love your posts that  fix the team

heh

- Rest in peace, Ashley Babbitt 1/6/21 -  ChamAAco Cartero
*** Mike Byrd said, "Bitch, you ain't getting into this house." BAM!***  Les my Good doggie 🐶
Title: FINALLY
Post by: chipstern on February 11, 2022, 12:42:20 AM
Well....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 11, 2022, 12:48:24 AM
It was nice of the Knicks to remind the Warriors crowd what it is like to watch their team lose.

Nice 4th Q by Burks.

Good all-rounder by Randle.

And good to get an impactful game from Reddish who looks like he can fit right in after all.

Taj is completely preferable to Noel. 
Title: JR
Post by: chipstern on February 11, 2022, 12:48:44 AM
JR

Decisive

Not dribbling into doubles.

Or settling for threes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 11, 2022, 12:51:46 AM
Yep, he has been trending toward better game and attitude. Delightful evening. I think there will be more of them.
Title: The Second Coming
Post by: carlos123 on February 11, 2022, 01:09:36 AM
Quote from: Les on February 11, 2022, 12:51:46 AM
Yep, he has been trending toward better game and attitude. Delightful evening. I think there will be more of them.

Hey, doggie. Glad you are coming back to J.-meaning Julius 😁
You had given up on Randle, but we are now witnessing the Second Coming of King 👑 Julius!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 11, 2022, 06:49:55 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 10, 2022, 12:42:32 PM
Celtics have actually been busy turning down offers for Schroder

Guess they got too many offers and couldn't turn them all down ...

Celts ditched Schroder and Josh Rich.  Maybe Knix can pick up another discarded BOS backcourt this Summer.  Does HOU really want Schroder?  I don't know what is going on there, but Schrodinger hardly seems like the kind of steady vet they could use.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 11, 2022, 07:12:14 AM
Knicks avoid 24-32.  Season on.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 11, 2022, 07:28:25 AM
Celtics did very well this trade period.
Title: Re: JR
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 11, 2022, 08:51:02 AM
Quote from: chipstern on February 11, 2022, 12:48:44 AM
JR

Decisive

Not dribbling into doubles.

Or settling for threes.

Most underrated star in the league

Most underappreciated player in NY - except for maybe  Nimmo
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 11, 2022, 08:56:09 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 11, 2022, 06:49:55 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 10, 2022, 12:42:32 PM
Celtics have actually been busy turning down offers for Schroder

Guess they got too many offers and couldn't turn them all down ...

 

Traded  Schroder for value (Theiss) - unless you love what E K Freedom was giving them

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 11, 2022, 09:57:58 AM
BOS needs a PG and still traded away Schroder for a Big.  Says something.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 11, 2022, 10:22:58 AM
White will get the role and they still have Kid in the Corner.  Schroder may end up back on Lakers.

Smart has been promoting himself for a 35 minutes per night PG role - seems to be working lately for Boston, who may in fact no be a final 8 team.
Title: Normal as Fuk Fuk Fickety Fuk!
Post by: lesterluv on February 11, 2022, 11:59:00 AM
Unsurprisingly, the HAMSTER MASSACRE failed to halt the tsunami.

https://thehill.com/policy/international/593744-experts-warn-nearly-30000-daily-covid-19-infections-possible-in-hong (https://thehill.com/policy/international/593744-experts-warn-nearly-30000-daily-covid-19-infections-possible-in-hong)

Folks with medical problems already can't get into hospitals cause they are stuffed to the gills with contacts of infected people, lol...

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/hong-kongs-zero-covid-quest-pushes-medical-facilities-brink-2022-02-11/ (https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/hong-kongs-zero-covid-quest-pushes-medical-facilities-brink-2022-02-11/)

The fun is just beginning!
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/02/08/hong-kong-zero-covid-omicron/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/02/08/hong-kong-zero-covid-omicron/)

從孩子那裡偷走可愛的寵物並野蠻地摧毀它是完全正常的
Title: Mr. heh (and lol) strikes YET again #43,840
Post by: carlos123 on February 11, 2022, 03:08:12 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on February 11, 2022, 08:56:09 AM
Quote from: BoZizzley on February 11, 2022, 06:49:55 AM
Quote from: chamAAcocartero8 on February 10, 2022, 12:42:32 PM
Celtics have actually been busy turning down offers for Schroder

Guess they got too many offers and couldn't turn them all down ...

 

Traded  Schroder for value (Theiss) - unless you love what E K Freedom was giving them

heh

The hehs are coming faster and "furioser" now...

- Rest in peace, Ashley Babbitt 1/6/21 -  ChamAAco Cartero
*** Mike Byrd said, "Bitch, you ain't getting into this house." BAM!***  Les my Good doggie 🐶
Title: Stevens Cleaning Up Ainge's Mistakes
Post by: chipstern on February 11, 2022, 06:10:00 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 11, 2022, 09:57:58 AM
BOS needs a PG and still traded away Schroder for a Big.  Says something.

Perhaps Brad has a more informed perspective than you regarding the load of crap Ainge left behind.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 12, 2022, 01:26:05 AM
I'm on board.   Shroder is unhelpful.  D.White is a nice 2-way player.  More consistent than JoshRich.  Consistency is important when you're two stars are so young.

I'd much rather have Simmons than Harden.  Harden started the year out of shape.  Then has started falling apart (yeah, some of that was  just to signal he wanted out).
Is as stubborn and mopey as Ben when unhappy with his team.  Harden is 32 and going to want a massive deal for his old age.  Always choked in the playoffs.
Enjoys nightlife more than conditioning.

Simmons a great fit for a Durant-Kyrie team.  Stellar D, moves and pushes the ball.
Surprised PHI had to give so much extra.
BKY's season was cratering and Harden wanted out.
Good haul for BKY.

'6ers?  A big time Win Now move.
They were getting zero from Ben.  We'll see how long Hardon remains happy playing with Embiid.  At least PJI has defenders in Maxey, Thybull and Embiid to help cover for Harden.  Add Simmons to that trio and you wonder how teams would score against PHI.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 12, 2022, 05:29:55 PM
Knicks Blazers today

It is 12 to nothing

Bo says its the defense.

heh
Title: Mr. heh (and lol) strikes YET again #43,841
Post by: carlos123 on February 12, 2022, 05:46:36 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on February 12, 2022, 05:29:55 PM
Knicks Blazers today

It is 12 to nothing

Bo says its the defense.

heh

Faster and "furiouser", and mo faster and even mo furiouser...

- Rest in peace, Ashley Babbitt 1/6/21 -  ChamAAco Cartero
*** Mike Byrd said, "Bitch, you ain't getting into this house." BAM!***  Les my Good doggie 🐶
Title: Exhausted
Post by: carlos123 on February 12, 2022, 07:33:04 PM
Our starters were exhausted in the 4th.
Some of it was injuries, but a lot of it was Thibs panicking and pulling the second unit too quickly.
Oh well...
Title: Jekyll & Hyde
Post by: chipstern on February 12, 2022, 07:33:31 PM
4th Quarter Disintegration Of Numbing Proportions.

Up 15 end of the third.

Outplayed 35-11 in the fourth.

No ONE player to blame in all fairness, but the slippery slope began with IQ...just a hot fucking mess..

Damn.

Lost all coherence.

DAMN.

Pulled the second unit too soon?

Not soon enough.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 12, 2022, 07:36:43 PM
We looked good until we decided to stand around and feed Julius in the post. Everything else he tried tonight worked. Not that.

It took the Blazer JV three quarters to figure out how to make Kemba a liability. They were fun quarters.

Hart covers enough of Powell and CJ in Portland that I have to think the Blazers did well.

Cam & Mitch tweaked ankles.

IQ not a PG. give reps to Deuce.

Up and down cameo from Jericho. He still nreds work.

Basically a nice outing from Grimes.
Title: Re: Jekyll & Hyde
Post by: carlos123 on February 12, 2022, 07:50:26 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 12, 2022, 07:33:31 PM
4th Quarter Disintegration Of Numbing Proportions.

Up 15 end of the third.

Outplayed 35-11 in the fourth.

No ONE player to blame in all fairness, but the slippery slope began with IQ...just a hot fucking mess..

Damn.

Lost all coherence.

DAMN.

Pulled the second unit too soon?

Not soon enough.

As well as the starters played most of the 3rd Q, the last few minutes we went from +23 to +15.

Thibs should have gone second unit with some 5 minutes to go in the Third. That is when the starters needed a break, and we still had the momentum.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 12, 2022, 09:39:17 PM
Good effort - but Knicks get Winslowed
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 13, 2022, 04:37:42 PM
I quibble with your tone.

The Knicks are losing games that they should win. Full stop. They're not a deeply injured, wildly young or under-skilled squad that would justify us going Well good for them! after every valiant loss.

They are finding ways to lose. It goes beyond Thibs. Where are the guys who will step up and say:

"Not this time."

Because we're waiting.
Title: Re: Jekyll & Hyde
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 13, 2022, 06:58:56 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 12, 2022, 07:50:26 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 12, 2022, 07:33:31 PM
4th Quarter Disintegration Of Numbing Proportions.

Up 15 end of the third.

Outplayed 35-11 in the fourth.

No ONE player to blame in all fairness, but the slippery slope began with IQ...just a hot fucking mess..

Damn.

Lost all coherence.

DAMN.

Pulled the second unit too soon?

Not soon enough.

As well as the starters played most of the 3rd Q, the last few minutes we went from +23 to +15.

Thibs should have gone second unit with some 5 minutes to go in the Third. That is when the starters needed a break, and we still had the momentum.

Then just play the starters the entire 4th?  Ok.  I am on board.
Title: Re: Jekyll & Hyde
Post by: carlos123 on February 13, 2022, 07:46:44 PM
Quote from: chamAAcocartero8 on February 13, 2022, 06:58:56 PM
Quote from: czarlos on February 12, 2022, 07:50:26 PM
Quote from: Chip on February 12, 2022, 07:33:31 PM
4th Quarter Disintegration Of Numbing Proportions.

Up 15 end of the third.

Outplayed 35-11 in the fourth.

No ONE player to blame in all fairness, but the slippery slope began with IQ...just a hot fucking mess..

Damn.

Lost all coherence.

DAMN.

Pulled the second unit too soon?

Not soon enough.

As well as the starters played most of the 3rd Q, the last few minutes we went from +23 to +15.

Thibs should have gone second unit with some 5 minutes to go in the Third. That is when the starters needed a break, and we still had the momentum.

Then just play the starters the entire 4th?  Ok.  I am on board.

Not necessarily. Who starts the 4th depends, in this case, of how the second unit is handling the end of the 3drd.

What we need is a coach who adjusts to the situation, not as inflexible as Thibs.

- Rest in peace, Ashley Babbitt 1/6/21 -  ChamAAco Cartero
*** Mike Byrd said, "Bitch, you ain't getting into this house." BAM!***  Les my Good doggie 🐶
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 13, 2022, 10:05:50 PM
You and Fact got it all figured out

Make sure you hire Bo.  He can tell you who has weak defense

Heh
Title: Mr. heh (and lol) strikes YET again #43,842
Post by: carlos123 on February 13, 2022, 11:20:32 PM
Quote from: chamAAcocartero8 on February 13, 2022, 10:05:50 PM
You and Fact got it all figured out

Make sure you hire Bo.  He can tell you who has weak defense

Heh

No hiring BoZizzley here. Fac sure, provided he has NO SAY on trades.

And head coach MIKE MILLER.
ITS MILLER TIME BABY!

PS. No hiring either ChamAAco or Chamaco either 😁

- Rest in peace, Ashley Babbitt 1/6/21 -  ChamAAco Cartero
*** Mike Byrd said, "Bitch, you ain't getting into this house." BAM!***  Les my Good doggie 🐶
Title: Meanwhile, quite a February for Maria Taylor...despite the kiid boycott!
Post by: lesterluv on February 13, 2022, 11:50:31 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 09, 2021, 03:53:19 PM

Meanwhile Maria Taylor turns down an offer that would have eventually had her making 5 mil per at ESPN

Heh - there's the fucking door.

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2022/02/maria-taylor-espn-nbc-olympics-super-bowl (https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2022/02/maria-taylor-espn-nbc-olympics-super-bowl)

The 34-year-old did not realize that she had already checked off every box on her sports-journalism bucket list until her family pointed it out....an NBA Finals, three college football national championships, a Summer Olympics, a Winter Olympics, and a Super Bowl before you are 35...

(https://media.vanityfair.com/photos/6205537671c1f6c87b125226/master/w_2560%2Cc_limit/maria-taylor-vf-exclusive-2022-lede.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 13, 2022, 11:57:30 PM
Anybody seen Raquel? Racial? Rachel that was it! ...Rachel something...what was her last name?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 14, 2022, 11:21:18 AM
PS. No hiring either ChamAAco or Chamaco either 😁


Dude - I just hired YOU.  Now keep  the ideas coming or you will be  out on your ASS.
Title: OKC Visits The Garden
Post by: chipstern on February 14, 2022, 04:20:35 PM
(https://c.tenor.com/SS1brPsXE8EAAAAM/cat-beer.gif)

As close as SeeMoan Bowl-A-Bra is likely to get. 

(https://media0.giphy.com/media/3o7TKuZvB7KctW3V96/200w.gif?cid=82a1493bl15k8of74ygoghdq4r0rpcoe1m68t5sjyx1ze1x6&rid=200w.gif&ct=g)

(https://media3.giphy.com/media/dGh5A5qGgvHPO/giphy.gif)

Title: No way Robinson remains a Knick
Post by: Kam on February 14, 2022, 05:29:00 PM
https://nypost.com/2022/02/13/knicks-not-trading-mitchell-robinson-comes-with-offseason-risk/ (https://nypost.com/2022/02/13/knicks-not-trading-mitchell-robinson-comes-with-offseason-risk/)

We should've tried to get something for Mitch.


Another NBA executive says Knicks strategist Brock Aller was in favor of trading Robinson as he's in charge of assets management. Knicks coach Tom Thibodeau, meanwhile, is believed to be a big fan of Robinson and perhaps he won out.

Aller actually called the Pistons and offered a complex package. The Knicks were interested in draft picks and also asked about rookie center Isaiah Stewart of Rochester. The Pistons weren't willing to deal Stewart.
Title: Re: No way Robinson remains a Knick
Post by: elephant on February 14, 2022, 05:38:08 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 14, 2022, 05:29:00 PM
https://nypost.com/2022/02/13/knicks-not-trading-mitchell-robinson-comes-with-offseason-risk/ (https://nypost.com/2022/02/13/knicks-not-trading-mitchell-robinson-comes-with-offseason-risk/)

We should've tried to get something for Mitch.


Unless some of the brass thinks he'll be worth the contract.

I've mentioned earlier in the season his penchant for getting hurt. Still feel that way. But, man, he's been playing like a beast. This is the best I've ever seen him, and it doesn't surprise me that the Knicks were hesitant to let him go.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 14, 2022, 06:07:28 PM
It would be good to have him at what we can offer, something like 55 mil over 5 years. Unfortunately I think anyone else can offer more.
Title: A Chamaco/Chip coalition?
Post by: carlos123 on February 14, 2022, 06:25:00 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on February 14, 2022, 11:21:18 AM
PS. No hiring either ChamAAco or Chamaco either 😁


Dude - I just hired YOU.  Now keep  the ideas coming or you will be  out on your ASS.

Really? Main goal of my life accomplished, working for Chamaco...LMAO!!! 😁😂🤣

Quote from: Chip on February 14, 2022, 04:20:35 PM
(https://c.tenor.com/SS1brPsXE8EAAAAM/cat-beer.gif)

As close as SeeMoan Bowl-A-Bra is likely to get. 
NICE KITTY
(https://64.media.tumblr.com/5762dbb6ab3371fbceaeb4f3d07b2ac6/590ef704d33705f2-df/s500x750/3409355d6450464ca8f55b3c286887bbcea510a8.jpg)
ITS MILLER TIME BABY!
Title: Re: No way Robinson remains a Knick
Post by: Kam on February 14, 2022, 06:50:33 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 14, 2022, 05:38:08 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 14, 2022, 05:29:00 PM
https://nypost.com/2022/02/13/knicks-not-trading-mitchell-robinson-comes-with-offseason-risk/ (https://nypost.com/2022/02/13/knicks-not-trading-mitchell-robinson-comes-with-offseason-risk/)

We should've tried to get something for Mitch.


Unless some of the brass thinks he'll be worth the contract.

I've mentioned earlier in the season his penchant for getting hurt. Still feel that way. But, man, he's been playing like a beast. This is the best I've ever seen him, and it doesn't surprise me that the Knicks were hesitant to let him go.

No way he accepts our extention of 5 years/55 mil.   

We are capped out.


If a team offers him more he is gone.
That seems like as easy bet to make.

Why didn't we try to get something for him?  I guess this FO thinks making the playoffs this year is more important than adding more firepower for trades.
Title: Josh Giddey
Post by: chipstern on February 14, 2022, 10:11:51 PM
Witty

Pretty

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/BountifulCapitalChimneyswift-size_restricted.gif)

Nice Kitty

PS: Sam Presti has him some NICE KITTIES

Title: Burks & IQ
Post by: chipstern on February 14, 2022, 10:23:59 PM
41 minutes

8 assists

[Cough]

3-18 from the field

Julius triple double

[Cough]

7 turnovers
Title: "We've Got To Fix Our Defense"
Post by: chipstern on February 14, 2022, 10:56:11 PM
Tom

You need to fix our offense. 

In lieu of Derrick Rose?

We took 50 three pointers. 

FIFTY

[Cough]

We made 15

THIRTY PERCENT

30-58 from two, which is a little under 52%

HELLO.

Am I missing something?

No, the Knicks are.  Settling for threes and clanging

Title: Re: No way Robinson remains a Knick
Post by: bodiddley on February 14, 2022, 11:19:58 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 14, 2022, 05:38:08 PM
I've mentioned earlier in the season his penchant for getting hurt. Still feel that way. But, man, he's been playing like a beast. This is the best I've ever seen him, and it doesn't surprise me that the Knicks were hesitant to let him go.

Yeah, contract year Mitch has been beastly, when not hobbled.  It's like someone reminded Mitch that he's playing for $50+M.
Title: Re: "We've Got To Fix Our Defense"
Post by: carlos123 on February 14, 2022, 11:29:52 PM
Quote from: Chip on February 14, 2022, 10:56:11 PM
Tom

You need to fix our offense. 

In lieu of Derrick Rose?

We took 50 three pointers. 

FIFTY

[Cough]

We made 15

THIRTY PERCENT

30-58 from two, which is a little under 52%

HELLO.

Am I missing something?

No, the Knicks are.  Settling for threes and clanging

Coach is just as lost and confused as his team

OR VICEVERSA

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/BountifulCapitalChimneyswift-size_restricted.gif)


Just had to re-post Chips kitty
Its really pretty
Title: Re: "We've Got To Fix Our Defense"
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 15, 2022, 08:44:56 AM
Quote from: chipstern on February 14, 2022, 10:56:11 PM
Tom

 You need to fix our offense. 

In lieu of Derrick Rose?

We took 50 three pointers. 

FIFTY

[Cough]

We made 15

THIRTY PERCENT

30-58 from two, which is a little under 52%

HELLO.

Am I missing something?

No, the Knicks are.  Settling for threes and clanging

Thibs quote today -

"If you score that many points you should win the game"

Tom doesnt realize the points were the result of PACE - and playing a youthful team that is quicker than you in every spot at a RACEY pace is silliness.

That and ...

I know you are a team defense guy but once in a while just put your best defender (Grimes) on their "guy you have to stop" (Giddey) and tell him fight through everything.  Credit the rest of the Thunder cast but they were able to get theirs because Josh was running roughshod, doing whatever he pleased.  And we were passing him off.

So....

Bad loss?

Heh - understating it some.  Coach needs to be accountable.  So does Stand Pat Leon, though with Barrett this result likely   does change.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 15, 2022, 08:52:49 AM
We should've tried to get something for Mitch.



I think everything was on the table but Robinson wasnt fetching a #1.

He is now a guy we look to re-sign, surely.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 15, 2022, 11:25:59 AM
Knix 1Q defense was terrible, especially 4Eva.
Grimes and Mitch were good.
And late 1Q gave up two transition dunks.  One was a 2-on-4, and Kenrich gets a dunk.  How is the transition D so bad?  A few clueless players and lack of communication.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 15, 2022, 12:05:00 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 14, 2022, 10:56:11 PM
Am I missing something?

No, the Knicks are.  Settling for threes and clanging

The opponent finds far more easy buckets than we do.

It's becoming a constant with the Knicks.

Recently I said I was waiting for the players who will step up, exert their will, and win these kinds of close games.

Still waiting!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 15, 2022, 12:56:09 PM
Randle was good until the end game.  Then he basically threw the game away.   4 of his 7 turnovers came in the 4th or OT. 

He is playing better of late and giving his effort. 

He does exert his will. 

The problem is he isn't very good with pressure. 

Pressure from late game situations. 

Pressure from fans in the stands. 

Pressure of his own expectations.   

I think it is fair to say he is the kind of guy who isn't at his best when under pressure.   

I'm not going to say he totally wilts under pressure because that wouldn't be accurate or nice. 

But there is definitely something up with Randle and pressure moments.   

I'm not going to kill him over it as long as the effort is there.

Maybe RJ or Rose when healthy can be the late game pressure release valve for Randle.

Title: King Julius
Post by: carlos123 on February 15, 2022, 01:41:31 PM
Quote from: Kamster on February 15, 2022, 12:56:09 PM
Randle was good until the end game.  Then he basically threw the game away.   4 of his 7 turnovers came in the 4th or OT. 

He is playing better of late and giving his effort. 

He does exert his will. 

The problem is he isn't very good with pressure. 

Pressure from late game situations. 


How about minutes?

He has been playing around 40 minutes a game.

Yesterday it was 45.

You know, fatigue does not help making good decisions and then being able to execute.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 15, 2022, 03:13:28 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 15, 2022, 12:56:09 PM
Randle was good until the end game.  Then he basically threw the game away.   4 of his 7 turnovers came in the 4th or OT. 

He is playing better of late and giving his effort. 

He does exert his will. 

The problem is he isn't very good with pressure. 

Pressure from late game situations. 

Pressure from fans in the stands. 

Pressure of his own expectations.   

I think it is fair to say he is the kind of guy who isn't at his best when under pressure.   

I'm not going to say he totally wilts under pressure because that wouldn't be accurate or nice. 

But there is definitely something up with Randle and pressure moments.   

I'm not going to kill him over it as long as the effort is there.

Maybe RJ or Rose when healthy can be the late game pressure release valve for Randle.

Fatigue.

Thibs tasking him with being our PG at crunch, and when he over dribbles, and leaps in the air without a plan, well, bad things happen.  His passing and creating for his team mates has been epic,  but Thibs goes to the well too often, and other teams know how to apply pressure at crunch time..

Again, watching Thunder facilitators Giddey and Mann or orchestrate compared to Burks and Quickley, a combined 3 for 18...Thibs insistence on a rain of threes [15-50], his refusal to bench IQ and empower McBride, and running Julius into the ground...not unlike how he literally ran RJ into the ground...Julius is one slip away from a crippling Amare injury with four years on his contract.

A bad look.

 
Title: Agreement
Post by: carlos123 on February 15, 2022, 04:00:11 PM
Hey, Chip, glad we are in agreement about how Thibs runs his players into the ground, which causes fatigue, bad plays and eventually injuries.

Following Van Grumbys playbook, re. Ewing and Larry Johnson.

Hope we replace Thibs at the end of the season, before he does further damage.

Now, I know you do not want my guy, or Fac for that matter, so who would you pick?

PS. As far as I am concerned, of course
ITS MILLER TIME BABY!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 15, 2022, 05:07:08 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 15, 2022, 12:56:09 PM
Randle was good until the end game.  Then he basically threw the game away.   4 of his 7 turnovers came in the 4th or OT. 

He is playing better of late and giving his effort. 

He does exert his will. 

The problem is he isn't very good with pressure. 

Pressure from late game situations. 

Pressure from fans in the stands. 

Pressure of his own expectations.   

I think it is fair to say he is the kind of guy who isn't at his best when under pressure.   

I'm not going to say he totally wilts under pressure because that wouldn't be accurate or nice. 

But there is definitely something up with Randle and pressure moments.   

I'm not going to kill him over it as long as the effort is there.

Maybe RJ or Rose when healthy can be the late game pressure release valve for Randle.

This is why I keep going back to the POINT GUARD. I apologize for an extreme example, but imagine if Chris Paul was on the team.

Randle would be perfect. PERFECT!

He wouldn't have to be the goddamn general on the floor.
Title: Go Fuck Yourself
Post by: chipstern on February 15, 2022, 09:47:12 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 15, 2022, 04:00:11 PM
Hey, Chip, glad we are in agreement about how Thibs runs his players into the ground, which causes fatigue, bad plays and eventually injuries.

Following Van Grumbys playbook, re. Ewing and Larry Johnson.

Hope we replace Thibs at the end of the season, before he does further damage.

Now, I know you do not want my guy, or Fac for that matter, so who would you pick?

PS. As far as I am concerned, of course
ITS MILLER TIME BABY!

You know what Johnny One Note?

Your tired ass vaudeville routine has worn quite thin.

Talk about beating off a dead horse.

We are not in agreement with you.

We are not sharing the Red Queen's dreary drum beat for Thibs to be fired, whatsoever our issues, some self inflicted, some a twist of fate [Derrick Rose].

Nor are we amused.

Did I mention how you can go fuck yourself?

I suppose I did. 

As you were, compadre. 

Mike Miller has become your Jimmer Fredette. 
Title: Re: Go Fuck Yourself - LORDY!
Post by: carlos123 on February 15, 2022, 10:06:00 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 15, 2022, 09:47:12 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 15, 2022, 04:00:11 PM
Hey, Chip, glad we are in agreement about how Thibs runs his players into the ground, which causes fatigue, bad plays and eventually injuries.

Following Van Grumbys playbook, re. Ewing and Larry Johnson.

Hope we replace Thibs at the end of the season, before he does further damage.

Now, I know you do not want my guy, or Fac for that matter, so who would you pick?

PS. As far as I am concerned, of course
ITS MILLER TIME BABY!

You know what Johnny One Note?

Your tired ass vaudeville routine has worn quite thin.

Talk about beating off a dead horse.

We are not in agreement with you.

We are not sharing the Red Queen's dreary drum beat for Thibs to be fired, whatsoever our issues, some self inflicted, some a twist of fate [Derrick Rose].

Nor are we amused.

Did I mention how you can go fuck yourself?

I suppose I did. 

As you were, compadre. 

Mike Miller has become your Jimmer Fredette.

Likewise!

Oh, and I aint your "COMPADRE", meshuggah Stern.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 16, 2022, 02:55:58 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 20, 2022, 07:54:25 PM
Told you - Charlotte is gone  - not to be caught

CHA just dropped below .500.  In 9th.  Just one game ahead of now healthy ATL.  Knix would be right on their tail too, if they ween't busy blowing giant leads and losing games they should win.

CHA and SAC show the folly of the out-score-'em approach.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 16, 2022, 09:42:27 AM
CHA and SAC show the folly of the out-score-'em approach.





Which is how we attacked Thunder

Folly indeed.  Slow the pace vs these young'uns.
Title: Normal as Fak Fak!
Post by: lesterluv on February 16, 2022, 10:26:44 AM
Look out, more Hamsters Will Die for sure...

Big Man sez you best get this sheeeit UNDER CONTROL in the "small hamlet" known as HK!

https://www.wsj.com/articles/xi-jinping-orders-hong-kong-to-get-a-grip-on-spiraling-covid-19-outbreak-11645009221 (https://www.wsj.com/articles/xi-jinping-orders-hong-kong-to-get-a-grip-on-spiraling-covid-19-outbreak-11645009221)

*** rumor haz it: Big Xi gonna fly in Zach Randolph's "posse" to roam the streets and keep residents cowering in their homes.

玫瑰是红色的，紫罗兰是蓝色的。 当警察应用程序变成紫色时，Zach 就在追你！
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 16, 2022, 02:36:13 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 15, 2022, 03:13:28 PM
his refusal to bench IQ and empower McBride....

Looks like Thibs is doubling tripling quadrupling quintupling down on a tried-and-true approach in advance of tonights game with the Nets.

Knicks say they have assigned Miles McBride to Westchester, their G League club

https://twitter.com/IanBegley/status/1494011748432576513 (https://twitter.com/IanBegley/status/1494011748432576513)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 16, 2022, 02:47:59 PM
Thibs might play just 8 tonight

War time.
Title: Re: Info
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 16, 2022, 07:22:26 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 16, 2022, 03:16:37 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on February 16, 2022, 12:47:43 PM
Oh sorry wrong forum...

You know, you can delete the messages that you post. Easy, no?



Heh
Title: Mr. heh (and lol) strikes YET again #43,843
Post by: carlos123 on February 16, 2022, 07:31:35 PM
Quote from: chamAAcocartero8 on February 16, 2022, 07:22:26 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 16, 2022, 03:16:37 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on February 16, 2022, 12:47:43 PM
Oh sorry wrong forum...

You know, you can delete the messages that you post. Easy, no?



Heh

How silly can you be?
Reply to my message after I delete it.
Reaching new heights, Chamaco.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 16, 2022, 07:36:46 PM
Why would I delete a post that had meaning to me?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 16, 2022, 08:58:48 PM
Besides, it will be good evidence for Kids deportation hearing. Someone who can pass a citizenship test should really take his place and all his stuff.
Title: Dim Chamaco
Post by: carlos123 on February 16, 2022, 09:00:34 PM
Quote from: chamAAcocartero8 on February 16, 2022, 07:36:46 PM
Why would I delete a post that had meaning to me?

I deleted mine, after you deleted yours, after which you replied to my deleted post. Got it now?
Title: Not today
Post by: carlos123 on February 16, 2022, 09:01:43 PM
We aint blowing the lead today!

Go Knicks!

Oh Lord, did I celebrate too soon?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: josh on February 16, 2022, 09:18:33 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 16, 2022, 07:36:46 PM
Why would I delete a post that had meaning to me?

Because it's the wrong forum, as already pointed out.

Do you need help with that?
Title: Re: Dim Chamaco
Post by: josh on February 16, 2022, 09:19:03 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 16, 2022, 09:00:34 PM
Quote from: chamAAcocartero8 on February 16, 2022, 07:36:46 PM
Why would I delete a post that had meaning to me?

I deleted mine, after you deleted yours, after which you replied to my deleted post. Got it now?

I moved it.
Title: Re: Dim Chamaco
Post by: carlos123 on February 16, 2022, 09:24:59 PM
Quote from: josh on February 16, 2022, 09:19:03 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 16, 2022, 09:00:34 PM
Quote from: chamAAcocartero8 on February 16, 2022, 07:36:46 PM
Why would I delete a post that had meaning to me?

I deleted mine, after you deleted yours, after which you replied to my deleted post. Got it now?

I moved it.

Oh, should I apologize to Chamaco? 🤔
Title: Re: Dim Chamaco
Post by: josh on February 16, 2022, 09:52:07 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 16, 2022, 09:24:59 PM
Quote from: josh on February 16, 2022, 09:19:03 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 16, 2022, 09:00:34 PM
Quote from: chamAAcocartero8 on February 16, 2022, 07:36:46 PM
Why would I delete a post that had meaning to me?

I deleted mine, after you deleted yours, after which you replied to my deleted post. Got it now?

I moved it.

Oh, should I apologize to Chamaco? 🤔

Because he is so swift to apologize to others?!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on February 16, 2022, 09:55:22 PM
what a fuckin' train wreck....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on February 16, 2022, 09:58:00 PM
everything on the planet is changing, even the weather level is changing, every goddam thing around me is changing - not for the better mind you , but changing.....




that is except the New York Fucking Knicks...nothing ever changes with the Knicks
Title: Damn
Post by: chipstern on February 16, 2022, 10:04:16 PM
Damn
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 16, 2022, 10:16:41 PM
If you watched the game in the 2nd quarter when we were up 27 points and thought....

We got this

...you haven't been paying attention.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 16, 2022, 10:21:23 PM
The Knicks wore black to mourn the lost season.

Title: Re: Dim Chamaco
Post by: carlos123 on February 16, 2022, 10:57:06 PM
Quote from: josh on February 16, 2022, 09:52:07 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 16, 2022, 09:24:59 PM
Quote from: josh on February 16, 2022, 09:19:03 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 16, 2022, 09:00:34 PM
Quote from: chamAAcocartero8 on February 16, 2022, 07:36:46 PM
Why would I delete a post that had meaning to me?

I deleted mine, after you deleted yours, after which you replied to my deleted post. Got it now?

I moved it.

Oh, should I apologize to Chamaco? 🤔

Because he is so swift to apologize to others?!

Ok, now you convinced me that I should. He NEVER apologizes, and I really do not want to have ANYTHING in common with such an specimen.

Besides, it will be a lot less depressing than commenting on the Knicks.

So, sorry Chamaco 😞
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 17, 2022, 01:36:18 PM
So, how was the game?

Did we lose it on defense again ?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 17, 2022, 02:26:23 PM
Well, up 15 with 10 minutes to go in the 4th.

Nets get points on 9 of the next 10 trips downcourt to tie things up.

So yes, you can safely say defense or the lack thereof played a HUGE role.

***along with tired-ass offensive "sets"..failure to block out...lazy passes...lots of other culprits lol...it takes a village to blow a 28 point lead
Title: Tick Tock
Post by: chipstern on February 17, 2022, 03:58:59 PM
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/as-knicks-slide-team-exec-william-wesley-has-blamed-tom-thibodeau-in-talks-with-owner-james-dolan-per-report/ (https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/as-knicks-slide-team-exec-william-wesley-has-blamed-tom-thibodeau-in-talks-with-owner-james-dolan-per-report/)
Title: And Furthermore [by James Herbert]
Post by: chipstern on February 17, 2022, 04:02:40 PM
The New York Knicks are in freefall, and, according to SNY's Ian Begley, 2021 Coach of the Year Tom Thibodeau doesn't have the support within the organization that he used to. More specifically, according to a second SNY story on the subject, Knicks executive William Wesley -- "Worldwide Wes" -- has criticized Thibodeau's coaching in private conversations with owner James Dolan. Wesley has told Dolan that Thibodeau deserves a significant share of the blame for the team's recent slide, per SNY. 

Begley did not report that Thibodeau is on the hot seat heading into the All-Star break -- he actually listed four reasons to expect Thibodeau to finish the season -- but that, even before their dispiriting loss to the Brooklyn Nets on Wednesday, things had gotten grim enough that "some people of influence at Madison Square Garden" were losing confidence in him.

He also reported that Thibodeau was angry that the front office didn't upgrade the roster at the trade deadline.

Why might things be tense in New York right now? Well, here's what has happened in the Knicks' three most recent games:

In Portland on Saturday, Feb. 12, the Blazers outscored the Knicks 35-11 in the fourth quarter. New York led by as many as 23 points but lost 112-103. (Portland is on an unexpected winning streak after a series of injuries and future-focused trades stripped the roster of most of its prominent players.)

The Knicks lost 127-123 to the Oklahoma City Thunder in overtime at home on Monday, despite having a double-digit lead in the third quarter. (The Thunder entered the game having lost 17 of 21 games and were without Shai Gilgeous-Alexander and Lu Dort.)

The Nets were down 28 at MSG before storming back with a barrage of buckets from rookie Cam Thomas. New York was outscored 38-19 in the fourth quarter on national television. (Brooklyn was without Kevin Durant, Ben Simmons, Kyrie Irving and Joe Harris.)

Before the blunder in the battle of the boroughs, New York had another meltdown on national television: On Feb. 5, it blew a 21-point lead on the road against the Los Angeles Lakers. The Knicks enter the All-Star break with a record of 25-34, having lost seven of their last eight games and 13 of their last 16. They are 12th in the East, 3.5 games behind the Atlanta Hawks for the final play-in spot.

New York overachieved in Thibodeau's first regular season, but the honeymoon is over and the team has lost its identity. To merely qualify for the play-in, the Knicks will need to go on a tear -- and get a bit lucky -- after the break.

Seems unlikely, I know. But hey, maybe they'll look better when R.J. Barrett and Derrick Rose are back in the lineup.

Then again, after being thoroughly outclassed in the first round last year, maybe all these awful losses aren't the worst thing for the future of the franchise. Maybe, in the big picture, it is better that Thibodeau hasn't managed to wring a winning record out of this roster. This way, the Knicks know how far away they are.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 17, 2022, 08:45:11 PM
Heh

Rose ain't coming back.
Title: Re: And Furthermore [by James Herbert]
Post by: elephant on February 17, 2022, 08:53:38 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 17, 2022, 04:02:40 PM
Then again, after being thoroughly outclassed in the first round last year, maybe all these awful losses aren't the worst thing for the future of the franchise. Maybe, in the big picture, it is better that Thibodeau hasn't managed to wring a winning record out of this roster. This way, the Knicks know how far away they are.

Well, I'd be interested in the thoughts of others on this.

Cuz unlike bad Knicks teams in recent years, I feel like we've got real talent. That we should be a competitive playoff team. Not a championship team, okay, obviously, but competitive with a good, winning record.

And we ain't. So what's the issue?

Does everyone else think it's actually the personnel?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 17, 2022, 09:27:54 PM
Does everyone else think it's actually the personnel?


I wouldnt imagine Thibs speaks to this team in a manner that is confidence boosting

But who would ever say anything  about it


We seem like a team that is just hesitant enough to lose.  I agree with Thibs from the other day - that in this league the difference between winning and losing a single game is very smalll.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 17, 2022, 09:43:06 PM
Does everyone else think it's actually the personnel?


I do absolutely side with Thibs - that a deal should have been made - and I will add that he should have been consulted on Reddish.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 17, 2022, 10:08:14 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 17, 2022, 09:27:54 PM

We seem like a team that is just hesitant enough to lose.  I agree with Thibs from the other day - that in this league the difference between winning and losing a single game is very smalll.

Well, if the difference between winning and losing is so small, his bosses might say it begs the question:

Then why can't you make such a small difference?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 17, 2022, 10:22:34 PM
I think the "bosses" are firmly behind Thibs.  The "some in the organization" chatter is just press selling copy.

Thibs will sour on us before we on him, I think.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 17, 2022, 10:33:25 PM
I suppose Thibs' comments just rubbed me the wrong way.

Of course, the difference in winning and losing in the NBA can be small.

But that's not an excuse or an explanation
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 17, 2022, 11:20:42 PM
As small as Quentin Grimes not blocking out on a key late possession.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 18, 2022, 12:06:21 AM
Quote from: elephant on February 17, 2022, 10:33:25 PM
I suppose Thibs' comments just rubbed me the wrong way.

Of course, the difference in winning and losing in the NBA can be small.

But that's not an excuse or an explanation

oh fuck, that was cut off because of an em-dash.

think the idea was that that's not an excuse or an explanation....that's the distance that strong tactics and good coaching is supposed to bridge.

(or some such shit)

anyhow, a weak thing for a coach to say when his team had recently bombed out a couple of games
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on February 18, 2022, 10:47:38 AM
Almost every single coach, in most any sport,  is not anything special let alone a genius, I think Lester might have made this point a  while ago.  The word genius and hardworking get thrown around too frequently so as to mean nothing...

There are, of course,  outliers - certainly coaches like  Riley, Phool Jackson, and Pops (though Pops is not quite the same genius without real stars, Auerbach as well - but he too had so much more talent that the rest of the league on a pretty regular basis.

But Thibs - good, solid coach, but this stubbornness thing is too glaring to overlook.  As coaching is about teaching and learning and figuring how to motivate - to not change, to not try new things - is downright reactionary, esp. when your methods are so clearly not working. 

And listening to coaches, GMs and team presidents talk - post games, in-games, pre-games, and interviews - there is nothing more superfluous and meaningless....

All that said - the disconnect between the FO Rose and Thibs is on Rose, and the roster construction for the coach you hand-picked is all wrong...so I put much of this on FO Rose...

And lastly, to reiterate a point Elephant has made many times - we need a fucking NBA quality starting point guard... I mean Rose's inability to get this taken care of, is up there with Gettleman's inability to build an O-line and Cash's inability to get a real shortstop...

The lack of a real NBA quality starting PG has had a domino effect on the whole team, and not in a good way... 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 18, 2022, 11:16:12 AM
We kind of hand-picked Quickley and McBride after whiffing on Frank.

So if we need a PG, let McBride or Quickley run the team.  (Quickley may not be the QB oint we want - more of a coring point but lets see it  for 35 a night.)

Problem is you can only do that if the team is developmental - and Leon wasnt brought on for that nor is his taste one for losing in the short term - Thibs being of same cloth.


Let's formulate a team for November. I will start -

Barrett
Randle
Robinson

All starters.

Quentin Grimes
Obi Topppin
Miles McBride

Rotation
Rotation
Bench



That's it.  6 guys.  Everyone else is in play for trade, including the '22 draft picks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 18, 2022, 11:43:29 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 17, 2022, 11:20:42 PM
As small as Quentin Grimes not blocking out on a key late possession.

On the LMA putback at the 2 min mark, QG thought CamTom was going to pull up before he reached Mitch, as he'd been doing, and left his feet to try to block the expected shot.  So he was out of position to box out.  Mitch came out further than previously, so CamTom smartly drove.  Meanwhile 4Eva dances his way into no man's land under the rim, not helping Mitch and not staying in place to box out.  4Ev was in favorable position to box out, and should have noticed San Quentin trailing over the screen and out of the play.  That is, at least Grimey had a sin of commission, 4Ev a sin of omission, winding up doing zilch on the possession.

Worse was the play before, where Burks is too far off Scurry2.0, and then decides to guard LMA instead of a great shooter.  Mitch did run into Grimes trying to recover to LMA.  But slow-footed LMA at the 3-point line or Scurry?  Easy to know who you should guard.  Burks blew it.  And that gave an open 3 and the momentum to BKY.

You want an key rebound failure?  Try 30 seconds left, BKY up 3, LMA misses a midranger and Bruce Brown grabs the rebound with Randle standing right next to him.  Maybe fatigue, but Randle doesn't box out or make much play for the board.  Gets caught flatfooted.  A fresher smaller player swoops in.  But Brown subbed in when Johnson fouled out a bit earlier, was guarding Randle, and Julius should know that Brown likes to cut along the baseline and crash the boards.  That was a huge play, much more significant than the BKY off-rebound at the 2 min mark.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 18, 2022, 12:02:48 PM
Randle was exhausted - and Knicks did not get the luck of the bounce.

Does not excuse Grimes.  I think the last time I didnt attempt to block out was pre-middle school ball.  No excuse foe a pro to be watching (Randle did plenty of this as well - granted) with the game on the line.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 18, 2022, 12:04:12 PM
Free agents - who we want?


https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 18, 2022, 12:10:25 PM
Cam Thomas was brilliant 4Q.  Guy we could have had.  I'd take him over Fournier (and McBride).  I like Grimes' 2-way game.  Would have been nice to draft Jalen Johnson and Grimes in a rebuild. Though we did pick up Reddish for a future 1st, and he's along the lines of Jalen. 

Looking at the 2nd round of that ultra-deep draft, Dosunmu (#38, two picks after McB) has looked terrific.  Shooting 41% on 3's.  Averaging 7.4 assists in Feb.  20 starts for a contender.  While Herb Jones (one pick prior to Bake McBride) has balled out too.   Jared Butler did it too, but has seen limited time in for deep contending Utah.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 18, 2022, 12:14:39 PM
Look ahead once in a while.

2022 mock

https://www.nbadraft.net/nba-mock-drafts/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 18, 2022, 12:17:59 PM
Gotta check out Notre Dame

Might be available

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/blake-wesley/

Numbers not great but NBA comps are Tyler Herro/Byron Scott

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 18, 2022, 12:21:40 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 18, 2022, 12:02:48 PM
Randle was exhausted - and Knicks did not get the luck of the bounce.

If you are blocking out, bounces don't matter. I coached 5th graders to block out better. That was the key play. He failed. If he gets too tired to do the basketball basics with the game on the line, he should stay home.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 18, 2022, 12:25:58 PM
I put forth that the 2 key plays were when Grimes did not block out and when Mitch and Julius knocked heads and neither got the board.

Agree to disagree - and of course you are right that B Brown getting a board 1 on 4 was ridiculous.

Enjoy the day - and the break.
Title: 2022 Free Agent Options?
Post by: chipstern on February 18, 2022, 12:35:31 PM
A Whole Lot Of Nothing. 

Who is available?  Who is tenable?  Who would be crazy enough to come here. 

We had our shot in 2021. 

I'm not as down on Fournier as some.

Still, having said that?

The BULLS have all of our 20/20 hindsight FA/Signings.

DeRozan
Ball
Caruso

Look, not only at the level of his play, but the level of DeRozan's LEADERSHIP. 

Off the charts. 

Which is why the Bulls, despite a host of injuries and COVID protocols, are still among the top tier of playoff contenders.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 18, 2022, 01:24:07 PM
Thibs supposedly wanted Derozan.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 18, 2022, 01:38:42 PM
I dont recall anyone saying to sign Caruso

And DeRozen had quite luke warm backing, given his particulars.

Ball didnt seem to embrace NY.  May have made the right call, we'll see.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 18, 2022, 01:59:56 PM
Told ya, Grimes bit on the CamTom minor hesitation and left his feet in a block attempt.  Leaving him out of position to box out.  4Eva was down low and should have blocked out LMA.  Watch it again.  I thought Burks giving Scurry a go ahead 3 was the early killer.

Barrett - Robinson - San Quentin
That's 3 defenders around Randle.
And 2 guys who can hit 3's.

Dredge up a two-way steady PG.
A Lowry, Rubio, Conley type vet would be enough.
I'd take Brogdon, who could be available (expect to give up ObiT or Mitch + one of our vet SG's). 
Pay big for Brunson in FA a possible option(?)
Our two best options.

Otherwise:
Rubio?  Dinwiddie?
Bledsoe should be available, but he's kind of a mess.  Not really an orchestrator or outside shooter and turnover prone.
   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 18, 2022, 02:09:55 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 18, 2022, 01:24:07 PM
Thibs supposedly wanted Derozan.

I heard Perry was a DeRozan booster. 

Well, that's twice we passed. 

Once for Evan Fournier.

Once for Jordan Hill. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 18, 2022, 02:23:12 PM
I sure didn't expect DeRozan's resurrection.
Caruso didn't make much sense with NYK, with Burks here.
He fit really well with LAL.
I wanted ZoBall, but Knix showed no interest.

BallZo - Grimes/Burks - RJB - Randle - Mitch
Title: DeMar
Post by: chipstern on February 18, 2022, 02:34:09 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 18, 2022, 02:23:12 PM
I sure didn't expect DeRozan's resurrection.
Caruso didn't make much sense with NYK, with Burks here.
He fit really well with LAL.
I wanted ZoBall, but Knix showed no interest.

BallZo - Grimes/Burks - RJB - Randle - Mitch

Caruso is much more adept at the point, and a fierce defender. 

Ressurection? 

WTF you talkin' 'bout, Willis? 

DeRozan's game never slipped an inch. 

He was basically good for 21-5-6 year after year with Pops. 

In fact, he truly morpjed into a legit 3&D point forward, and his facilitating skills and assists totals inched up significantly with the Spurs, as did his rebounding.  And this season, his 3 point shooting is like .343% [34-99], a modest sampling, but his total FG% is the second highest of his career. 

And I mean, three point shooting is fucking fool's gold, if one is to judge by the recent Knicks downturn, and how when the fruit was not falling, we had NOTHING in the fourth quarter.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 18, 2022, 02:58:20 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 18, 2022, 02:23:12 PM
I sure didn't expect DeRozan's resurrection.
Caruso didn't make much sense with NYK, with Burks here.
He fit really well with LAL.
I wanted ZoBall, but Knix showed no interest.

BallZo - Grimes/Burks - RJB - Randle - Mitch

Caruso over Kemba. We could have given him the keys.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 18, 2022, 03:23:56 PM
---- Told ya, Grimes bit on the CamTom minor hesitation and left his feet in a block attempt.  Leaving him out of position to box out.           
   

Yeah - must be talking about a different play
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 18, 2022, 04:41:59 PM
Boxing out, transition D, and free throws are on the coaching end of an organization. Some groups get it out of their players regardless of their spot in the churn. Some do not.

I think Thibs got more or less the draft he wanted. Then I think Leon and Wes took it in a whole nother direction in free agency leading to fundamental organizational disagreement. All else follows.

The basis for any kind of success in NY is to have a coach willing to eat enough shit and lose enough sleep to build his house on sand. It is the Dolan Berman Steven A environment. Not a lot of indication any of that will change any time soon.

I give the current coach and management group together a ten percent chance of patching their differences changing their course collectively and coming out better on the other end.
Title: New BoZ Name?
Post by: carlos123 on February 18, 2022, 06:10:49 PM
Quote from: BoZizzley on February 18, 2022, 01:59:56 PM
Told ya, Grimes bit on the CamTom minor hesitation and left his feet in a block attempt.  Leaving him out of position to box out.  4Eva was down low and should have blocked out LMA.  Watch it again.  I thought Burks giving Scurry a go ahead 3 was the early killer.

Barrett - Robinson - San Quentin
That's 3 defenders around Randle.
And 2 guys who can hit 3's.

Does San Quentin for Quentin Grimes qualify as a BoZ name?
Better than nothing, I guess.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 18, 2022, 06:43:01 PM
Frank Isolate interview with N'shan Holland very refreshing

Scalabrine:  "Ain't no one can stay in front of Bones Hyland"

Quite possibly the one that got away.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 18, 2022, 06:52:42 PM
Knick transition D was awful last year as well, when the overall D was good.

Did anyone really expect DeMar to have a career year at 32?
https://www.espn.in/nba/story/_/id/33308881/chicago-bulls-demar-derozan-stays-hot-eclipses-wilt-chamberlain-record-scoring-streak
3/$82 as he gets on into his mid-30's?
Quite a gamble, and CHI gave up Thad and a future 1st as well.
DeRozan's midrange game, plus Mitch, would clog up driving lanes for Randle and RJB and push them outside for more 3's.  Bulls use Vuj as a stretch 5 to open lanes for DeMar.  DeMar inside the arc and a bunch of shooters outside.

Caruso as starting PG?  Not a viable solution.
Caruso as Burks replacement would be fine.  But contract year Burks was pretty good.  Where's his mojo gone to?  Career low 38% FG. These days much of his offense involves crashing into his defender to get FT's. 
Title: The guy's a nickname gem
Post by: bodiddley on February 18, 2022, 06:59:39 PM
Bones awfully similar to IQ.
So far has shot below 38% FG every month.
Weak defender.  Lotta confidence (like Quix).
I'll stick with Grimes, thank you.
But I sure hope they refer to his shot as the Hyland fling ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on February 18, 2022, 07:43:04 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 18, 2022, 06:52:42 PM
3/$82 as he gets on into his mid-30's?
Quite a gamble, and CHI gave up Thad and a future 1st as well.

at least with a gamble there's potential reward
Kemba and Nerlens weren't  gambles - just plain bad signings, and we burned a 1st on Cam, so clearly that wasn't an issue...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 19, 2022, 02:20:18 AM
There was of course potential rewards with Kemba.  We desperately needed a PG and if healthy Kemba can be pretty good.  We saw a 4 game flash of brilliance around XMas.  Unfortunately after almost a month of DNP's, Thibs decided Kemba could handle 40 mins per during those 4 games.  He managed two more games osteoarthritically, had to be shut down for 3 weeks and hasn't been capable again since.  Thibs obviously the wrong coach to monitor and ease up on a gimpy vet's minutes.  Kemba's second year was very questionable.

Noel was heroic last year.  Hasn't been healthy this year.  Signed for the going rate, if healthy.  Mitch insurance, since he tends to be injury and foul prone.

Funny how most of the Knix played better in their contract year and regressed this year ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 19, 2022, 03:25:29 AM
Quote from: Jack Straw on February 18, 2022, 07:43:04 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 18, 2022, 06:52:42 PM
3/$82 as he gets on into his mid-30's?
Quite a gamble, and CHI gave up Thad and a future 1st as well.

at least with a gamble there's potential reward
Kemba and Nerlens weren't  gambles - just plain bad signings, and we burned a 1st on Cam, so clearly that wasn't an issue...

Agree those two were not money well spent. Will wait and see on Cam. More reminiscent of Harkless than Paul George, but there is a lot of middle ground there. I just wish we had a trustworthy development structure. As it is it is hard to feel too good about any of our young guys.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 19, 2022, 08:17:08 AM
LOL at Noel being a bad signing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 19, 2022, 09:33:05 AM
Bones awfully similar to IQ.


Eh - some differences...

At this point I  fully expect COLIN SEXTON to be the Knicks PG next year.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Jack Straw on February 19, 2022, 10:53:57 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 19, 2022, 02:20:18 AM
There was of course potential rewards with Kemba.  ..... Thibs obviously the wrong coach to monitor and ease up on a gimpy vet's minutes.  Kemba's second year was very questionable.

Noel was heroic last year.  Hasn't been healthy this year.  ......  Mitch insurance, since he tends to be injury and foul prone.

Funny how most of the Knix played better in their contract year and regressed this year ...

well in the abstract any signing has potential rewards, but as you yourself note - Thibs was the wrong coach for an aged Kemba...

Heroic Noel was also injured periodically and has a history of injury, so Noel as insurance for an injury prone player is a clever meta narrative, but a dopey  real world one...

no, with all that cap space last summer, FO Rose and co. spit the bit - easy to say now, but also looking back - it was overly conservative, a lot of risk for not so much reward, did not ACTUALLY address the point guard issue in either a short term or long term way, and begins to open up the notion that Rose might be a good agent but a lousy president. 

Also, what is the deal with hiring the former T Wolves president - that's a pretty admin. heavy FO - a lot of cooks in an increasingly small kitchen...
Title: Too Many Cooks?
Post by: chipstern on February 19, 2022, 01:04:22 PM
Quote from: Jack Straw on February 19, 2022, 10:53:57 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on February 19, 2022, 02:20:18 AM
There was of course potential rewards with Kemba.  ..... Thibs obviously the wrong coach to monitor and ease up on a gimpy vet's minutes.  Kemba's second year was very questionable.

Noel was heroic last year.  Hasn't been healthy this year.  ......  Mitch insurance, since he tends to be injury and foul prone.

Funny how most of the Knix played better in their contract year and regressed this year ...

well in the abstract any signing has potential rewards, but as you yourself note - Thibs was the wrong coach for an aged Kemba...

Heroic Noel was also injured periodically and has a history of injury, so Noel as insurance for an injury prone player is a clever meta narrative, but a dopey  real world one...

no, with all that cap space last summer, FO Rose and co. spit the bit - easy to say now, but also looking back - it was overly conservative, a lot of risk for not so much reward, did not ACTUALLY address the point guard issue in either a short term or long term way, and begins to open up the notion that Rose might be a good agent but a lousy president. 

Also, what is the deal with hiring the former T Wolves president - that's a pretty admin. heavy FO - a lot of cooks in an increasingly small kitchen...

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/PerkyAbsoluteDwarfmongoose-size_restricted.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 19, 2022, 02:52:47 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 19, 2022, 09:33:05 AM
Bones awfully similar to IQ.


Eh - some differences...

At this point I  fully expect COLIN SEXTON to be the Knicks PG next year.   

Regarding Bones. Yeah, some differences with IQ. But he resembles IQ way more than any other player in the NBA.

And IQ is on our team.

He was never going to be taken by the Knicks. Move on!

What kind of impact do you think Sexton would make here?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 19, 2022, 03:00:08 PM
Regarding Bones. Yeah, some differences with IQ. But he resembles IQ way more than any other player in the NBA.


"Resembles"

You mean what - collegiate stat lines?

Quickley is a perimeter guy.  And yeah, I forgot - that floater.    DEPENDENT on the 3 and that float-are falling.  No much else.   Hyland offers more.  But we chose McBride and I am not too upset with that.  Some would also say we dont get Hyland AND Grimes - and they may be right

Onward.
Title: Sexton
Post by: chipstern on February 19, 2022, 03:18:06 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 19, 2022, 02:52:47 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 19, 2022, 09:33:05 AM
Bones awfully similar to IQ.


Eh - some differences...

At this point I  fully expect COLIN SEXTON to be the Knicks PG next year.   

Regarding Bones. Yeah, some differences with IQ. But he resembles IQ way more than any other player in the NBA.

And IQ is on our team.

He was never going to be taken by the Knicks. Move on!

What kind of impact do you think Sexton would make here?

That ship has sailed. 

Cleveland was asking way too much, and so was Sexton [a max contract].

It says here that Sexton resigns for something well shy of the max, but still generous, and finds his niche on Cleveland as a scoring sixth man combo guard off the bench.  Going down and giving Garland the ball, who came of age, much as Allen has, was the making of Cleveland.  As was picking up MarkieMark [that one is for Bo], drafting Mobley, developing Okuro and a relaxed, healthy Kevin Love off the pine. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 19, 2022, 03:40:32 PM
What kind of impact do you think Sexton would make here?


Everything Walker currently lacks and you miss from Rose

 
Title: Re: Sexton
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 19, 2022, 03:44:51 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 19, 2022, 03:18:06 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 19, 2022, 02:52:47 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 19, 2022, 09:33:05 AM
Bones awfully similar to IQ.


Eh - some differences...

At this point I  fully expect COLIN SEXTON to be the Knicks PG next year.   

Regarding Bones. Yeah, some differences with IQ. But he resembles IQ way more than any other player in the NBA.

And IQ is on our team.

He was never going to be taken by the Knicks. Move on!

What kind of impact do you think Sexton would make here?

That ship has sailed. 

Cleveland was asking way too much, and so was Sexton [a max contract].

It says here that Sexton resigns for something well shy of the max, but still generous, and finds his niche on Cleveland as a scoring sixth man combo guard off the bench.  Going down and giving Garland the ball, who came of age, much as Allen has, was the making of Cleveland.  As was picking up MarkieMark [that one is for Bo], drafting Mobley, developing Okuro and a relaxed, healthy Kevin Love off the pine.

No way Cavs match on Sexton after Garland has popped.  The injury was unfortunate for Cleveland.  Maybe they recoup something in a sign and trade but Collin will be in another uni next year - book it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 19, 2022, 07:07:41 PM
Noel is a perfectly adequate 3rd string big, a guy who can change a game or two, in a break glass scenario before teams start capitalizing on his weaknesses against us. For that role he is over paid. For other roles he is inadequate. 

He works best if no one on floor for the other team outweighs him by more than fifteen pounds, but that is rare.

It is good he is a nice guy because we will be riding out the contract since it is slim return for the money.
Title: Obi Toppin is your Slam Dunk Contest Champion!
Post by: lesterluv on February 19, 2022, 11:02:31 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FMAvPMmXMAUbXlH?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 19, 2022, 11:06:55 PM
I didn't actually watch, but Mitch Robinson did!

https://twitter.com/NBA_NewYork/status/1495240876997722114 (https://twitter.com/NBA_NewYork/status/1495240876997722114)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 20, 2022, 06:29:31 AM
I haven't liked Sexton's play.  But paired with Garland was never going to work.  And admittedly I saw CLE very little prior to this year.  But a small weak defender at PG sounds uninspiring.  Is Sextant even a PG?

Another guy who should be available ... Fultz.
Cole Ant looks like their PG.  They have Gary Harris and Suggs.
No idea if Fultz is still viable at all.
But worth keeping an eye on.  Might return later this year from last year's knee injury.
Title: Obi Kanoobee
Post by: chipstern on February 20, 2022, 04:20:17 PM
THIS JUST IN

"In light of his triumph in the Slam Dunk Competiton, Knicks Coach Tom Thibodeau announced that Obi's minutes will be increased from 15.1 to 16.2 a night, but 'Only against white girls or light skinned sisters,' the coach hastened to add." 

(http://www.myblackhistory.net/cheryl_miller.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 20, 2022, 04:52:56 PM
Are we getting better D this year from Toppin or Randle?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 20, 2022, 07:04:11 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 20, 2022, 04:52:56 PM
Are we getting better D this year from Toppin or Randle?

Good question.
Title: Sweet Merciful HaySuse
Post by: chipstern on February 20, 2022, 10:19:42 PM
STEPH CURRY

Is One Sick MF
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 21, 2022, 09:40:03 AM
GONYGONYGO!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 21, 2022, 10:44:16 PM
The Dragon to BKY.  I guess he figures he can be the PG for the home games when Kyrie can't play.

I was thinking with CP3 out 4-6 weeks, Dragic could step into PHX and keep the ball moving there.  He's played for PHX before. 

Crafty player, but he's 35.  Well-rested, but is he in shape?  Who knows? And why didn't he play backup PG to FVV on an exciting and talented TOR team?  I really didn't/don't understand his situation.

Of course if he's healthy and not washed, NYK could sure using his steady hand.  But he was always going to choose a playoff contender, not our iffy squad -- but why BKY?  I guess a big role when you play, but plenty of time/days off ...

Early favorite was DAL since Luka is also Slovenian. And they can use vet guidance.  But Luka dominates the ball.  MIA was talked about, since Dragic knows the org well and Lowry could use extra rest.  And they are a legit contender.  MIL seemed less likely, but a good chance at a ring.  PHI could use the extra PG help.  But Harden will soon step in and over-dribble things there.
(Btw, I think BKY got a huge heist getting Simmons and Curry and Bulldog Drummond and 1sts for disgruntled out-of-shape Harden)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 21, 2022, 10:49:41 PM
I was thinking with CP3 out 4-6 weeks, Dragic could step into PHX and keep the ball moving there.  He's played for PHX before.


Payne
Elfrid

and now

Aaron Holiday

Plus Booker handles the ball sometimes like a PG
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 22, 2022, 09:02:03 AM
Finally able to see some colllege ball.

Here is the first guy that stood out to me as far as being a draft target

Player of the year candidate for Iowa Hawkeyes

I know you all want to fix our backcourt but I think we are still in best player available mode and it is not a PG deep draft

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/4594327/keegan-murray

Title: TELL ME ABOUT THE RABBITS GEORGE
Post by: chipstern on February 22, 2022, 03:10:03 PM
I certainly have issues with Thibs, and rarely see eye to eye with Marc Berman, but this was interesting. 

https://nypost.com/2022/02/21/firing-tom-thibodeau-is-not-the-answer-the-knicks-need/ (https://nypost.com/2022/02/21/firing-tom-thibodeau-is-not-the-answer-the-knicks-need/)

And I am certainly on record as supporting our front office moves this summer, so, FUCK YOU CHIP [though I did make mewing sounds about DeRozan & Ball], but it is worth noting, my love for Obi notwithstanding, that former CAA head Leon Rose's first signature move was to pass on point guard Tyrsese Haliburton, who looks to be a force in the league for a decade to come, in favor of CAA client [Leon's son his agent] Obi Toppin. 

Furthermore, the calls for Thibs' head notwithstanding, it was that elusive Masked Man, HighHoeSilver Rose, and his trusted Kemosabe, World Wide Waste, who oversaw our free agency strategy last summer, blowing out all of our cap space on Kemba, Noel and Burks; determining that MVP candidate DeMar DeRozan was on the downside of his career, taking a pass on Lonzo Ball, and giving that money to Evan Fournier; affording Thibs his vet safety blanket in Taj Gibson and Derrick Rose, yet letting Reggie Bullock walk, as well as the much maligned Elfrid Payton, whose well documented shortocomings notwithstanding, could nevertheless, man up on D, and rudder the ship. And now, with no functional PGs, and Julius miscast as our point forward, WWW is whispering sweet nothings into Dolan's ears about Thibs, and deflecting aim and blame away from his OverHyped HipHopASS.

And might we expect Deuceto be turned loose?

Puh-LEEESE.

We are going to make our "Playoff Push" and rush back Derrick Rose, likely reducing him to dust when we should be prepping him for 2022-23. 

We are hiring ex-Timberwolves font office folks with an eye towards their "relationship" with Karl Anthony Towns.  TELL ME ABOUT THE RABBITS GEORGE.  Hello.  Anyone remember when we traded away half our team to open up cap space for Lebron & Bosh, Durant & Irving? 

BULLSHIT Redoubling Itself. 

Free agents coming to the Knicks? 

A) The free agent class for 2022-23 is pretty friggin' lean.

B) We have no cap space, anyway.

C) Pipe dreams about Towns, Lillard and the perennially injured MedZelppelin Zion are yet the latest in a series of delusional constructs.

D) The manner in which Thibs is being hung out to dry--his own complicity in a self-inflicted airstrike notwithstanding--is not going to sit well with any subsequent "coaching candidates" we might pursue.  But hey, knowing HighHoeSilver Rose, cana swing for the fences with one more opportunity for John Calipari to swing for the fences and whiff be far behind? 

E) In case no one has noticed, Julius is plumb out of gas by the time for fourth quarter hits, and we lose all of our pace. 

F) We are a lottery team with a lot of talented yute, who need to get minutes, a PG in training in Spain, and a long row to hoe. 

Plenty of B-L-A-M-E to go around. 

Better we should recalibrate and assess our talent goiing forward in 2022-2023, and prepare for the fucking draft. 

Title: Re: TELL ME ABOUT THE RABBITS GEORGE
Post by: chipstern on February 22, 2022, 03:23:33 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 22, 2022, 03:10:03 PM
I certainly have issues with Thibs, and rarely see eye to eye with Marc Berman, but this was interesting. 

https://nypost.com/2022/02/21/firing-tom-thibodeau-is-not-the-answer-the-knicks-need/ (https://nypost.com/2022/02/21/firing-tom-thibodeau-is-not-the-answer-the-knicks-need/)

And I am certainly on record as supporting our front office moves this summer, so, FUCK YOU CHIP [though I did make mewing sounds about DeRozan & Ball], but it is worth noting, my love for Obi notwithstanding, that former CAA head Leon Rose's first signature move was to pass on point guard Tyrsese Haliburton, who looks to be a force in the league for a decade to come, in favor of CAA client [Leon's son his agent] Obi Toppin. 

Furthermore, the calls for Thibs' head notwithstanding, it was that elusive Masked Man, HighHoeSilver Rose, and his trusted Kemosabe, World Wide Waste, who oversaw our free agency strategy last summer, blowing out all of our cap space on Kemba, Noel and Burks; determining that MVP candidate DeMar DeRozan was on the downside of his career, taking a pass on Lonzo Ball, and giving that money to Evan Fournier; affording Thibs his vet safety blanket in Taj Gibson and Derrick Rose, yet letting Reggie Bullock walk, as well as the much maligned Elfrid Payton, whose well documented shortocomings notwithstanding, could nevertheless, man up on D, and rudder the ship. And now, with no functional PGs, and Julius miscast as our point forward, WWW is whispering sweet nothings into Dolan's ears about Thibs, and deflecting aim and blame away from his OverHyped HipHopASS.

And might we expect Deuceto be turned loose?

Puh-LEEESE.

We are going to make our "Playoff Push" and rush back Derrick Rose, likely reducing him to dust when we should be prepping him for 2022-23. 

We are hiring ex-Timberwolves font office folks with an eye towards their "relationship" with Karl Anthony Towns.  TELL ME ABOUT THE RABBITS GEORGE.  Hello.  Anyone remember when we traded away half our team to open up cap space for Lebron & Bosh, Durant & Irving? 

BULLSHIT Redoubling Itself. 

Free agents coming to the Knicks? 

A) The free agent class for 2022-23 is pretty friggin' lean.

B) We have no cap space, anyway.

C) Pipe dreams about Towns, Lillard and the perennially injured MedZelppelin Zion are yet the latest in a series of delusional constructs.

D) The manner in which Thibs is being hung out to dry--his own complicity in a self-inflicted airstrike notwithstanding--is not going to sit well with any subsequent "coaching candidates" we might pursue.  But hey, knowing HighHoeSilver Rose, cana swing for the fences with one more opportunity for John Calipari to swing for the fences and whiff be far behind? 

E) In case no one has noticed, Julius is plumb out of gas by the time for fourth quarter hits, and we lose all of our pace. 

F) We are a lottery team with a lot of talented yute, who need to get minutes, a PG in training in Spain, and a long row to hoe. 

Plenty of B-L-A-M-E to go around. 

Better we should recalibrate and assess our talent goiing forward in 2022-2023, and prepare for the fucking draft.

(http://pics.livejournal.com/louismaistros/pic/000188qx)
Title: Post Script
Post by: chipstern on February 22, 2022, 05:11:18 PM
The Brain Trust has seemingly decided to Let Mitchell Walk. 

And as an UFA, while we can surely match or exceed any offers, we DO NOT HAVE RIGHT OF FIRST REFUSAL, as in sign and trades and what have you.   

(https://preview.redd.it/woh8gbljag421.jpg?auto=webp&s=e064e75b89e37f9b7f66348e6994ee607dd899f0)

The SMALL DETAILS, Ralph.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 23, 2022, 08:42:22 AM
One GM guesstimated that Mitch would get a full MLE deal, ~ 3/$33M.
That's certainly not much for what he brings, and no doubt reduced due to injury concerns.  Knix oughta keep him.  Need a defender next to Randle.  And if we had better PG's, Mitch would be more of a lob threat (Quix sometimes feeds him). 
We saw lately what Mitch can do on the boards and rim when motivated.  I think we'll see more contract year Mitch explosions the last 2 dozen games.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 23, 2022, 09:04:18 AM
POR waived Dennis Smith and signed undrafted Trevor Watford to a Mitch-like extended 4 year cheapo deal (3 years min salary after this one, with last two not guaranteed).   POR kept Ingles ending salary on their books instead of keeping Jr. Smith, apparently hoping his Bird rights could have some sign and trade value.
Dropped from the team in favor of an unknown and an expiring contract cripple.
POR is rebuilding.  Normally you'd keep a 24 year old former high draft pick.

Frank'n'Smith both NBA washouts.  I saw Smith last week have a pretty strong 4Q v. LAL, including a late play where LeBronco dribbled across halfcourt and as he slowed to survey the offense, Smith just picked his pocket and went in for a layup.  There was also a really late play in which POR, up something like 4 with 30 secs left and the ball, just needed to run clock down, and Jr. Smith went 1-on-3, got trapped in the corner and chucked up the ball.  Gave Lakers an opening, and the announcers were aghast at the poor decision-making.  Your PG with no concept of the time-score continuum.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 23, 2022, 12:39:29 PM
If you are experiencing basketball withdrawal, check out the 4Q and OT's of the MIA-CHA tilt.  https://nbafullhd.com/64493-2/

CHA has a lot of trouble winning close games with weak D and without vet leadership.  Bridges tries to step up, LaMelo too, but both make mistakes.  They seem to have gone away from Rozier as a finisher.   Meanwhile MIA has Lowry and Butler.  Guys who have seen it all and are unfazed by pressure.  Plus snipers such as Hero and Dunkin' Robinson.  And PJ the corner 3 master.

I was surprised/impressed to see PJ Washington guard both Lowry and Butler during the multiple crunch times.  Points to a problem, they don't have good backcourt defenders (Cody Martin was out).  But I wasn't aware PJWash could handle such.  Intriguing.  CHA a team which could really use Mitch.
Title: The Adams Family
Post by: chipstern on February 23, 2022, 01:47:19 PM
Mayor Adams has signalled that he is looking in the near future to role back the Vax Mandates. 

Dragic
Irving
Durant
Simmons
Drummond

Aldridge, Brown, Curry, Mills, Thomas, Griffin

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

We shall see. 

Agree with BoD, for a change. 

Getting Simmons, AND Drummond, AND Curry [and a pair of what project to be some late round #1 picks] for Harden was pretty dope on Sean Marks' part. 

Simmons is a head case, but he is a head case who can basically defend 1-through-5, play on and off the ball, and who will be all of 26 come July [Harden will be 33 come August], with the pressure to be the bell cow off his back, with Durant and Irving manning the cannons, and Drummond and a cabal of young bigs set to join him as a defensive fortress. 

Drummond's exile from main street was not based on his prowess as a rebounder, but his bloated salary, and the Nyets are paying him 2.4 million.  Seth ain't Steph, but Curry in a flurry. 

What did the Nyets give up for Harden. 

Basically, Allen, LaVert, Prince, three #1 picks, and three #1 swaps. 

Not that Harden is chopped liver, but chemistry wise, he will be a co-equal with Embid, whereas on the Nets, there seemed as though, Vax Mandates and injuries notwithstanding, too many cooks, so to speak. 

If Durant AND Irving can remain ambulatory [a BIG If, right up there with Anthony Davis on the All-Injured Reserve List], a pretty intense scrum at the top of the East, what with Milwaukee, Miami, Brooklyn and Philideplpha. 

Nor should anyone sleep on Cleveland, Chicago, Toronto or Boston. 

With 23 games remaining, it is hard to visualize the Knicks making the 7-10 slot.  We are currently floating atop the Bottom 10 worst teams in the league, record wise. 
Title: Rokas Jokubaitis
Post by: chipstern on February 23, 2022, 01:51:51 PM
A Faint Ray Of HOPE?

https://www.postingandtoasting.com/2022/2/23/22947153/some-rokas-jokubaitis-news-to-brighten-your-knicks-blues (https://www.postingandtoasting.com/2022/2/23/22947153/some-rokas-jokubaitis-news-to-brighten-your-knicks-blues)

Fuck, would Thibs even play him? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 23, 2022, 02:51:18 PM
Knicks' Mitchell Robinson asking for public's help to find his missing father
Robinson's father has been missing since Feb. 11 (https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/knicks-mitchell-robinson-asking-for-publics-help-to-find-his-missing-father/)

Scant detail there. No info on Mitch's relationship with his father, the father's age or profession, or hints of any basic reporting.

I always figure we really don't know what is going on in player's lives unless they go public, the police get involved, or word leaks somehow.
Title: Re: Post Script
Post by: elephant on February 23, 2022, 05:41:03 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 22, 2022, 05:11:18 PM
The Brain Trust has seemingly decided to Let Mitchell Walk. 

Yeah, I was surprised when Kam mentioned the economics of it. I hadn't been paying attention and had no idea.

Still. Any big contract with Mitch carried a ton of RISK. How much do you invest in a player who hasn't proven he can stay healthy? So maybe, as Bo suggests, the Knicks may have enough to offer.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 23, 2022, 05:45:43 PM
With 23 games remaining, it is hard to visualize the Knicks making the 7-10 slot.  We are currently floating atop the Bottom 10 worst teams in the league, record wise.


Knicks playing (or not) for the pick right now

WALKER OUT FOR THE YEAR
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 23, 2022, 05:51:48 PM
Some feel the front office screwed up with Fournier and he's a huge bust.

Do not agree. He obviously has a lot of value and could easily find a place on a winning team. But the Walker thing....man, I don't understand how folks get paid a ton of money to make these kind of mistakes.

As an athlete, he's just a distant echo of what he once was. Why does the Knicks organization make these kinds of mistakes again and again?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 23, 2022, 05:53:08 PM
Ah, good timing. And really, glad to hear that.

There was no justification to play him anymore (if there ever was).

As for the pick, if anything, this makes us more likely to get it.

(though, of course, at this point it's a stretch)
Title: Re: Post Script
Post by: chipstern on February 23, 2022, 09:56:05 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 23, 2022, 05:41:03 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 22, 2022, 05:11:18 PM
The Brain Trust has seemingly decided to Let Mitchell Walk. 

Yeah, I was surprised when Kam mentioned the economics of it. I hadn't been paying attention and had no idea.

Still. Any big contract with Mitch carried a ton of RISK. How much do you invest in a player who hasn't proven he can stay healthy? So maybe, as Bo suggests, the Knicks may have enough to offer.

Nonsense.

Can't stay healthy?

Fuck me.

How many millions x 2 years guaranteed do we have invested in walking wounded such as Nerlens and Kemba?
Title: Deuce?
Post by: chipstern on February 23, 2022, 10:04:30 PM
So, Kemba shutting down.

Rose practicing.

Someone asked Thibs if he would start?

"We'll see."

Then he went into his BURKS IS OUR BEST OPTION ROUTINE.

"Polly want a Cracker?"
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on February 24, 2022, 01:25:52 AM
Fournier is frustrating.  Inconsistent.  Disappears too often.  And his D has been rather ole this year. 

Small Sample Theater
TyH's 4 games w/ IND:
21 / 11 / 4 & 2.3 steals ... 48 / 45 / 81

Very interested to see the TyH-Brogdon pairing.
A down injury (& CV) year for the Frog.
Could be available this Summer.
 
Brogdon & Duarte for Fournier & ObiT.
Fair deal, imo.  Balances the NYK roster.  Nets the Knix a crucial starting PG. ObiT can start for IND next to MyTurn.
Too bad they just added Hield, who is very similar to 4Eva.
They could do that deal and then make another move to jettison Buddy.

Or take the yute out -- so they retain cheap dead-eye Duarte and Knix hold on to underplayed Toppings -- and they give us Hield and take on our jetsam.
Brogdon & Hield = 4Eva & Burks + Noel + Kemba
Basically a Brogdon - Fournier swap, with IND ditching Hield's big deal for smaller one year shorter contracts, while picking up the useful Burks. Bonus for them if Nawlins gets healthy and plays well next year as backup C.

Knix get a starting PG.  Replace enigmatic, poor D, gunner 4Eva with enigmatic, poor D, gunner Hield.  Lose Burks as the cost of ditching Noel & Kemba's salary.
Good buy low moment on Brogdon.   Any takers?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 24, 2022, 08:53:52 AM
Then he went into his BURKS IS OUR BEST OPTION ROUTINE.


But he won't commit to Burks

He sees something in a game he doesn't like and Alec sits 18 minutes straight.

Something along the lines of "this is your team" might help.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 24, 2022, 11:48:56 AM
Brogdon & Duarte for Fournier & ObiT.


Pass.
Title: Tears For The Ukraine
Post by: chipstern on February 24, 2022, 01:27:42 PM
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRb34ZymFBJuIvaHs4TmJtohC0Tvvmy2-iJPWWyaHNQ1Jt2isXV6fmp1YZ8AaT-wmU2eEs&usqp=CAU)

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/4a/46/a2/4a46a2405c5954949cccf5f60911943d.gif)
Title: Re: Tears For The Ukraine
Post by: josh on February 24, 2022, 01:29:40 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 24, 2022, 01:27:42 PM

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/4a/46/a2/4a46a2405c5954949cccf5f60911943d.gif)

If you haven't noticed and you care, we have a separate space for discussing Ukraine:
http://forums.escapefromelba.com/index.php?topic=215.0
Title: Re: Tears For The Ukraine
Post by: chipstern on February 24, 2022, 01:33:30 PM
Quote from: josh on February 24, 2022, 01:29:40 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 24, 2022, 01:27:42 PM

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/4a/46/a2/4a46a2405c5954949cccf5f60911943d.gif)

If you haven't noticed and you care, we have a separate space for discussing Ukraine:
http://forums.escapefromelba.com/index.php?topic=215.0

Thank you, Josh. 

I understand. 

But this is my community. 

If you feel it appropriate to delete or transfer this posting to the other discussion group, I will understand. 
Title: Ukraine forum
Post by: carlos123 on February 24, 2022, 04:03:10 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 24, 2022, 04:01:25 PM
Quote from: josh on February 24, 2022, 02:44:58 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on February 24, 2022, 02:05:52 PM


 "Let's have a conversation in a month or so and see if the sanctions are working."

Wow.

What would you do, Kid, in his situation?

I was afraid this forum would get immediately colonized by Chamaco, and that's exactly what happened.

He really is like horse shit!

Chamaco is EVERYWHERE.
Title: CHAMUCO
Post by: chipstern on February 24, 2022, 04:26:10 PM
The Chamuco (a Mexican word which means "devil"), or Mexican Pitbull, is a dog breed not recognized by any dog association. It originated in the center of Mexico.

(https://img.thewhiskyexchange.com/900/teqla_cha1.jpg)
Title: Re: CHAMUCO and CHAMACO
Post by: carlos123 on February 24, 2022, 05:06:57 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 24, 2022, 04:26:10 PM
The Chamuco (a Mexican word which means "devil"), or Mexican Pitbull, is a dog breed not recognized by any dog association. It originated in the center of Mexico.

(https://img.thewhiskyexchange.com/900/teqla_cha1.jpg)
And chamaco a Mexican word for kid, while chamAAco would be the equivalent of kiid.
PS. Never saw that tequila. Must be a good one.
Title: Curious
Post by: chipstern on February 24, 2022, 08:04:35 PM
Ever notice how Thibs never sits next to his assistant coaches?
Title: Normal as Fickety Wickity Fuk!!!
Post by: lesterluv on February 25, 2022, 12:05:34 PM
What was that Drifters song?

If this old world starts getting you down,
There's room enough for two,
Up on the roo-oo-oof

Only room for one in HK.

When Chan, a Hong Kong construction worker, tested positive for the coronavirus, he had nowhere to go. For 16 days, Chan, who asked that only his last name be used out of embarrassment, followed the citys mandatory self-isolation policy, living on the roof of the building in a steady drizzle amid unseasonably cold temperatures. He ate instant noodles and defecated in plastic bags. He slept in three jackets and two trousers with a blanket dampened by the rain seeping under the rooftop door. He said he often woke from a dream that he was naked and freezing.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/02/23/hong-kong-covid-quarantine-vulnerable-people/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/02/23/hong-kong-covid-quarantine-vulnerable-people/)

We entering total fail territory here...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/24/hong-kong-to-allow-in-doctors-from-mainland-china-as-covid-cases-overwhelm-hospitals (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/24/hong-kong-to-allow-in-doctors-from-mainland-china-as-covid-cases-overwhelm-hospitals)

But no matter...

尼克斯今晚复出！



*** Citizens in Chuntianping have been warned to carry disposable defecation sacks in case they are "urgently isolated" for more than 48 hours in locations without proper restroom facilities

你不能编造这个狗屎，除非我编造了！
Title: Guess What
Post by: chipstern on February 25, 2022, 04:16:49 PM
Thibs didn't even need a single game.

Just a practice.

Rose having ANOTHER ankle procedure.

Deuce?

Nah.

Burks & Quckley, it says here

Book it, New York. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 25, 2022, 05:00:29 PM
I said Rose wont be back.  Have to listen.
Title: U did?
Post by: carlos123 on February 25, 2022, 05:51:27 PM
Quote from: chamAAcocartero8 on February 25, 2022, 05:00:29 PM
I said Rose wont be back.  Have to listen.
When?

- Rest in peace, Ashley Babbitt 1/6/21 - ChamAAco Cartero
*** Mike Byrd said, "Bitch, you ain't getting into this house." BAM!*** Les my good doggie 🐶
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 25, 2022, 05:57:58 PM
I have Miami as second favorite in East

Tonight we get a glimpse of that prowess.

And Sunday we get number 1
Title: Rudders: Platoon Of Doom
Post by: chipstern on February 26, 2022, 01:27:54 PM
Burks

This season our point guard is averaging 2.6 assists with a .382 shooting percentage based on 8.6 FGA per game in roughly 26 minutes a night.   

Quickley

This season our point guard is averaging 3.0 assists with a .369 shooting percentage based on 8.4 attempts per game in roughly 21 minutes a night. 

Quick's FT% is .914 but whereas he made 2.7 attempts a game last season, this season he is down to 1.7 attempts. 

Last night Thibs tossed Deuce two minutes at the end of the first half. 

ROSE

This season, averaging 24.5 minutes a night over 26 games, Rose's FG% was .445, with a .402 3-Point % and 4.0 assists per game.  He didn't get to the FT line a lot, but, canned 30-31 shots. 

In his absence, and given Thibs' stubborn insistence that Burks & Quickley are our best PG options, the team has no pace, limited movement, an over-reliance on three point shots. 

Of The Teams Who Are Presently Lottery Bound

Washington 27-37
New York 25-35
Portland 25-35
San Antonio 24-36
New Orleans 24-36
Sacramento  22-39
Indiana 20-41
Oklahoma City 19-41
Houston 15-44
Detroit 14-45
Orlando 14-47

If memory serves, we lost to Orlando twice.  Lost to OKC twice.  Lost to Indiana twice.  Lost to Portland.  Lost to Washington.  Lost to New Orleans. 

Our only +/- PLUSSES Last Night, were, ironically, Randle with a +5 and McBride with a +4. 

RJ [-3] was awesome with 46 points, and played like a leader.  His FT shooting was again confounding, getting to the line a remarkable 22 times but missing 8 attempts, which is a .636%

Two in a row with Philly beginning Sunday, as we consecrate our PlayIn Push. 

SIGH
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 26, 2022, 02:53:52 PM
I think we can dip down to the Indiana-OKC level and be in a scrap for positions 4, 5, and 6 pre-lottery.
Title: Re: Rudders: Platoon Of Doom
Post by: elephant on February 26, 2022, 04:08:51 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 26, 2022, 01:27:54 PM
Burks

This season our point guard is averaging 2.6 assists with a .382 shooting percentage based on 8.6 FGA per game in roughly 26 minutes a night.   

Quickley

This season our point guard is averaging 3.0 assists with a .369 shooting percentage based on 8.4 attempts per game in roughly 21 minutes a night. 

Quick's FT% is .914 but whereas he made 2.7 attempts a game last season, this season he is down to 1.7 attempts. 

Last night Thibs tossed Deuce two minutes at the end of the first half. 

ROSE

This season, averaging 24.5 minutes a night over 26 games, Rose's FG% was .445, with a .402 3-Point % and 4.0 assists per game.  He didn't get to the FT line a lot, but, canned 30-31 shots. 

In his absence, and given Thibs' stubborn insistence that Burks & Quickley are our best PG options, the team has no pace, limited movement, an over-reliance on three point shots. 

Yep. This shit deserves to be pointed out again and again. It's dispiriting to see Burks used this way. And while no one is saying McBride is the answer, there's no justification to keeping him out of the game.

That game yesterday was depressing, because it told us everything about both teams that we already know.

Grimes' injury was added pain.
Title: Re: Rudders: Platoon Of Doom
Post by: chipstern on February 26, 2022, 05:25:03 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 26, 2022, 04:08:51 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 26, 2022, 01:27:54 PM
Burks

This season our point guard is averaging 2.6 assists with a .382 shooting percentage based on 8.6 FGA per game in roughly 26 minutes a night.   

Quickley

This season our point guard is averaging 3.0 assists with a .369 shooting percentage based on 8.4 attempts per game in roughly 21 minutes a night. 

Quick's FT% is .914 but whereas he made 2.7 attempts a game last season, this season he is down to 1.7 attempts. 

Last night Thibs tossed Deuce two minutes at the end of the first half. 

ROSE

This season, averaging 24.5 minutes a night over 26 games, Rose's FG% was .445, with a .402 3-Point % and 4.0 assists per game.  He didn't get to the FT line a lot, but, canned 30-31 shots. 

In his absence, and given Thibs' stubborn insistence that Burks & Quickley are our best PG options, the team has no pace, limited movement, an over-reliance on three point shots. 

Yep. This shit deserves to be pointed out again and again. It's dispiriting to see Burks used this way. And while no one is saying McBride is the answer, there's no justification to keeping him out of the game.

That game yesterday was depressing, because it told us everything about both teams that we already know.

Grimes' injury was added pain.

IQ showed promise last year playing off the ball with Rose. 

Burks was an effective sixth man, setting screens, rolling to open spots for jumpers, cutting to the rack and finishing. 

Thibs tasking them to be facilitators is a denial of reality. 

To echo the PackI-Derm's points, no one is suggesting that Deuce McBride is the second coming of Ja Morant, but he is a tenacious competitor, a defensive gadfly, and A TRUE POINT GUARD. 

Given, the impressive numbers he has racked up against G-League competition do not necessarily translate to the NBA, but in the one game where he was actually empowered to run the offense for real minutes, Deuce had 15 points, NINE FUCKING ASSISTS, and 4 steals. 

I believe that someone once said that the operative definition of insanity, is making the same mistake over and over and over again, with the expectation of different results. 

Tom Thidodeau, please pick up the hospitality phone.

PS: The notion that Kemba is going to spend the spring and summer rehabbing with an eye towards next season, let alone pencilling in Rose, when McBride's development is being squandered, and Rokas Jokubaitis projects to sit next to Deuce on the bench, in the event he should sign, because TT likes veterans and possesses a curious loyalty to some players and an inexplicable disdain towards others...well...

PPS: As per Facil and Jeff Van Gundy.  The illusion that the PlayIn is either a tenable or a desirable goal, given the calcified state of the roster and/or our static, tried and untrue offensive approach, does not bode well for next season.  As JVG suggested, it advances the grand illusion that we are better than we actually are. 

PPPS: Meanwhile, as per Stan Van Gundy, the conceit of Knicks management, Knicks media, Knicks fans, that we are in play for the next free agent, or that WE SHOULD MAKE A RUN AT ZION, presupposing that we have any shot, or that we are once again hitching our horse to a false flag, let alone a bloated, woefully overweight, congenitally injured FLAWED SAVIOR, well...

PPPPS: TO BE A KNICKS FAN IS TO SUFFER. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 27, 2022, 10:01:22 AM
Yep. This shit deserves to be pointed out again and again. It's dispiriting to see Burks used this way. And while no one is saying McBride is the answer, there's no justification to keeping him out of the game.


I think the justification on McBride is that NYK had a plan and are sticking to it.  If McBride is doing well that is enough of a justification of how he is being handled.  Ditto Grimes who was seen as more NBA ready.

Knicks getting 8 at home.  Indy getting the same at home vs Boston.  Looking like a nice juicy away team parlay.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 27, 2022, 02:04:42 PM
2nd quarter just screams for McBride. So many of the Knicks turnovers stem from lack of direction. In a game where Thibs starts Simms and sees him get 10 rebounds or something in the first quarter (he got his hand on everything), why can't we see something at the point position?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 27, 2022, 02:20:29 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 27, 2022, 02:04:42 PM
2nd quarter just screams for McBride. So many of the Knicks turnovers stem from lack of direction. In a game where Thibs starts Simms and sees him get 10 rebounds or something in the first quarter (he got his hand on everything), why can't we see something at the point position?

Sigh

His obsession with Burks is astonishing
Title: BURKS
Post by: chipstern on February 27, 2022, 02:30:56 PM
Ironically

Thibs obsession with Alec at the point?

Completely obviates his strengths as an offensive option.
Title: Turnover
Post by: chipstern on February 27, 2022, 02:39:57 PM
Julius with one of his patented jump in the air without a Plan B Passes
Title: Re: BURKS
Post by: elephant on February 27, 2022, 03:04:38 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 27, 2022, 02:30:56 PM
Ironically

Thibs obsession with Alec at the point?

Completely obviates his strengths as an offensive option.

It's getting harder to remember that Burks was an incredibly impactful player for us last year. Won many a game with the 2nd unit. Dynamic, surprising, versatile. Now he's often reduced to something dull and generic.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 27, 2022, 03:26:42 PM
Forgot about the start time ... just tuned in..in time for 4th Q implosion?...we'll see.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 27, 2022, 03:41:47 PM
my timing, as always, is impeccable.... YOW

**Burks + Quick at point, one combined assist, I see this is still working out great.


*** OT: anybody who thinks Brooklyn somehow took Philly in the trade is an imbecile. I mean we're talking James f'n Harden for a guy who doesn't like basketball, can't hit free throws, is scared to shoot FG's, hasn't gotten one whit better in any way over five seasons, plays fewer games every year and isn't ready to play after a 10 month vacation, lol...

First ever player in 76ers history with 25-10-15-5 in a game. He's played two games as a Sixer.

Brooklyn won the trade, lol, lol, lol....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 27, 2022, 04:14:22 PM
Seems like we were right there till our centers both fouled out.
Title: Centers
Post by: carlos123 on February 27, 2022, 05:08:42 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 27, 2022, 04:14:22 PM
Seems like we were right there till our centers both fouled out.

We had two more available.

Both DNP-COACH'S DECISION.

Same as our only PG.

Enjoy your Thibs, boyz and gurls.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 27, 2022, 05:29:56 PM
I still like our guys.

All of them.

Upgrade?  Draft a  guy who luckily pops?  Sure.  Bring it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 27, 2022, 05:31:12 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on February 27, 2022, 03:41:47 PM
my timing, as always, is impeccable.... YOW

**Burks + Quick at point, one combined assist, I see this is still working out great.


*** OT: anybody who thinks Brooklyn somehow took Philly in the trade is an imbecile. I mean we're talking James f'n Harden for a guy who doesn't like basketball, can't hit free throws, is scared to shoot FG's, hasn't gotten one whit better in any way over five seasons, plays fewer games every year and isn't ready to play after a 10 month vacation, lol...

First ever player in 76ers history with 25-10-15-5 in a game. He's played two games as a Sixer.

Brooklyn won the trade, lol, lol, lol....

Harden was just fucking unstoppable.  29-10-16.  Not too shabby.  Oh and FIVE STEALS.  Not to mention he helped get Embid easy looks and set him up for 27 fucking free throws. 

PS: The Sixers canned 39-44 free throws, which sums out to 88.6%

PPS: The Knicks clanged 22-35, which sums out to 62.9%  YIKES

PPPS: Jericho Sims had his hands full with Embid to put it mildly.  Fouled out in 18 minues.  HOWEVER, he gave us real spirit and energy, with 10 rebounds, 2 assists, a steal and a block.  Jericho was a +1, the ONLY Knick with a postitive +/-

PPPPS: Meanwhile, they also serve who sit and wait.  Thibs still cannot imagine McBride giving us a lift like Sims. 
Title: COUGH
Post by: chipstern on February 27, 2022, 06:23:13 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on February 27, 2022, 03:41:47 PM

First ever player in 76ers history with 25-10-15-5 in a game. He's played two games as a Sixer.

Brooklyn won the trade, lol, lol, lol....

COUGH

In Their 1966-1967 Championship Season, The SIXERS' Wilt Chamberlain, in 45.5 minutes a night over 81 games, averaged [AVERAGED] 24.1 points, 24.2 rebounds, 7.8 assists and God Only Knows how many blocked shots [because they didn't tabulate blocked shots]. 


Title: Really?
Post by: carlos123 on February 27, 2022, 07:36:16 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on February 27, 2022, 10:01:22 AM
Yep. This shit deserves to be pointed out again and again. It's dispiriting to see Burks used this way. And while no one is saying McBride is the answer, there's no justification to keeping him out of the game.


I think the justification on McBride is that NYK had a plan and are sticking to it.  If McBride is doing well that is enough of a justification of how he is being handled.  Ditto Grimes who was seen as more NBA ready.

Knicks getting 8 at home.  Indy getting the same at home vs Boston.  Looking like a nice juicy away team parlay.

Yes? And how much did you bet on the Indy vs Boston? 🤔
Title: Re: COUGH
Post by: lesterluv on February 27, 2022, 09:33:10 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 27, 2022, 06:23:13 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on February 27, 2022, 03:41:47 PM

First ever player in 76ers history with 25-10-15-5 in a game. He's played two games as a Sixer.

Brooklyn won the trade, lol, lol, lol....

COUGH

In Their 1966-1967 Championship Season, The SIXERS' Wilt Chamberlain, in 45.5 minutes a night over 81 games, averaged [AVERAGED] 24.1 points, 24.2 rebounds, 7.8 assists and God Only Knows how many blocked shots [because they didn't tabulate blocked shots].

lol, you know after I saw and posted that I thought to myself Wilt probably did that about a zillion times....in his sleep...nonetheless, auspicious start for the fat ball in Philly
Title: Re: Really?
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 27, 2022, 09:38:07 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 27, 2022, 07:36:16 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on February 27, 2022, 10:01:22 AM
Yep. This shit deserves to be pointed out again and again. It's dispiriting to see Burks used this way. And while no one is saying McBride is the answer, there's no justification to keeping him out of the game.


I think the justification on McBride is that NYK had a plan and are sticking to it.  If McBride is doing well that is enough of a justification of how he is being handled.  Ditto Grimes who was seen as more NBA ready.

Knicks getting 8 at home.  Indy getting the same at home vs Boston.  Looking like a nice juicy away team parlay.

Yes? And how much did you bet on the Indy vs Boston? 🤔

Shhhh.....
Title: Re: Really?
Post by: carlos123 on February 27, 2022, 09:59:55 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on February 27, 2022, 09:38:07 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 27, 2022, 07:36:16 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on February 27, 2022, 10:01:22 AM
Yep. This shit deserves to be pointed out again and again. It's dispiriting to see Burks used this way. And while no one is saying McBride is the answer, there's no justification to keeping him out of the game.


I think the justification on McBride is that NYK had a plan and are sticking to it.  If McBride is doing well that is enough of a justification of how he is being handled.  Ditto Grimes who was seen as more NBA ready.

Knicks getting 8 at home.  Indy getting the same at home vs Boston.  Looking like a nice juicy away team parlay.

Yes? And how much did you bet on the Indy vs Boston? 🤔

Shhhh.....
Oh, I guess this is part of the same pattern where you told us you had predicted that Derrick Rose would not play again this season, but when questioned about "when", you could not provide an answer, lmao... 😁
Title: No Shit Sherlock
Post by: chipstern on February 27, 2022, 11:05:15 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on February 27, 2022, 09:33:10 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 27, 2022, 06:23:13 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on February 27, 2022, 03:41:47 PM

First ever player in 76ers history with 25-10-15-5 in a game. He's played two games as a Sixer.

Brooklyn won the trade, lol, lol, lol....

COUGH

In Their 1966-1967 Championship Season, The SIXERS' Wilt Chamberlain, in 45.5 minutes a night over 81 games, averaged [AVERAGED] 24.1 points, 24.2 rebounds, 7.8 assists and God Only Knows how many blocked shots [because they didn't tabulate blocked shots].

lol, you know after I saw and posted that I thought to myself Wilt probably did that about a zillion times....in his sleep...nonetheless, auspicious start for the fat ball in Philly

Embid has a running buddy. 

Joel & James combined for 37 free throws between them.  That is ASTOUNDING. 

Joel with 23 makes, James with all 10 and nary a miss. 

That's 33-37/39-44.  Knicks 22-35. 

We hung around until the fourth quarter meltdown.  Outscored in the 4th by 34-20. 

Fournier [-7] in 37 minutes
Randle [-12] in 38 minutes
Burks [-19] in 34 minutes
RJ [-20] in 38 minutes

Julius & RJ had 40 points, 15 boards, 13 assists between them.  And 7 TOs. 

Maxey 21-7-3-2 [+23]
IQ 21-5-1  [-6]

Wednesday evening in Philly could get dicey. 

The final two #9 & 10 in play slots are occupied by the Hornets and Hawks, both 10.5 games out of first behind the 40-21 Miami Heat.  We are 15 games back at 25-36 in the #12 slot. 

Facil's lottery wackamole hopes and prayers notwithstanding, the Pacers are at #13, 21-41, 19.5 games back. 

Bringing up the rear?  Detroit at 15-46, Orlando at 14-47. 

Out west, Lakers at 27-32, Portland 25-35, the Pelicans 24-36, Spurs 24-37, Kings 22-40, OKC 19-41, Houston 15-45. 

We would literally need to lose every game, to attain top 7 lottery status. 

Either way, we are fucked. 

Either way, Thibs is going to keep McBride buried on the pine, until he has trasported Burks to oblivion. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 28, 2022, 08:59:28 AM
Either way, we are fucked.


I think we are OK for next season

Lots of talent.  Coaching POSSIBLY, POTENTIALLY  brings it all together and we don't need to alter that.

(But sure glad I didnt bet thhat mortgage on Knicks over 41.5 wins, which early on looked like a lock).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 28, 2022, 09:15:20 AM
Yes? And how much did you bet on the Indy vs Boston? 🤔


Not a dime. But I did pick the parlay so I will take the L.

(Lost with Lakers last night, a SHOCKER)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 28, 2022, 01:46:06 PM
Oh, I guess this is part of the same pattern where you told us you had predicted that Derrick Rose would not play again this season, but when questioned about  when , you could not provide an answer, lmao


Scroll back
Title: Not an answer
Post by: carlos123 on February 28, 2022, 03:17:03 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8  on February 28, 2022, 01:46:06 PM
Oh, I guess this is part of the same pattern where you told us you had predicted that Derrick Rose would not play again this season, but when questioned about  when , you could not provide an answer, lmao 😁


Scroll back

Answer not valid.

The question was: When?

Try again.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 28, 2022, 03:48:16 PM
Seems like we were right there till our centers both fouled out. Randle decided to shoot and miss three-point shots on back to back possessions followed by a missed layup sandwhiched around not running down the court to stop Embiid.   All when "the other guys" were getting the job done.
[/quote]

7:01      Obi Toppin makes 1-foot layup (Cam Reddish assists)   106 - 105   
6:48      Cam Reddish blocks James Harden 's 3-foot driving layup   106 - 105   
6:46      Obi Toppin defensive rebound   106 - 105   
6:27      Julius Randle misses 27-foot three point jumper   106 - 105   
6:25      Matisse Thybulle defensive rebound   106 - 105   
6:16      Julius Randle shooting foul   106 - 105   
6:16      Knicks Full timeout   106 - 105   
6:16      Alec Burks enters the game for Cam Reddish   106 - 105   
6:16      Joel Embiid makes free throw 1 of 2   107 - 105   
6:16      Joel Embiid makes free throw 2 of 2   108 - 105   
5:52      Julius Randle misses 24-foot three point jumper   108 - 105   
5:50      Joel Embiid defensive rebound   108 - 105   
5:43      Joel Embiid makes dunk (James Harden assists)   110 - 105   
5:31      Obi Toppin offensive foul   110 - 105   
5:31      Obi Toppin turnover   110 - 105   
5:31      Knicks Full timeout   110 - 105   
5:31      Evan Fournier enters the game for Obi Toppin   110 - 105   
5:16      Joel Embiid misses 15-foot step back jumpshot   110 - 105   
5:14      Alec Burks defensive rebound   110 - 105   
5:05      Julius Randle misses layup   110 - 105   
5:04      Tobias Harris defensive rebound   110 - 105   
4:55      Julius Randle shooting foul   110 - 105   
4:55      Joel Embiid makes free throw 1 of 2   111 - 105   
4:55      Joel Embiid makes free throw 2 of 2   112 - 105
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 28, 2022, 04:10:03 PM
For the season, Julius is shooting 22.9% on 4th quarter 3's.

Can't we just say not allowed?
Title: Maybe
Post by: carlos123 on February 28, 2022, 05:30:13 PM
Quote from: Les 🐶 on February 28, 2022, 04:10:03 PM
For the season, Julius is shooting 22.9% on 4th quarter 3's.

Can't we just say not allowed?

Maybe if he played fewer minutes a night he would not be so bad in the 4th Q.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 28, 2022, 05:53:51 PM
Randle played poorly....especially when it counted.

There's no reason to even point this out anymore.

Chalk it up to fatigue, celestial configurations, whatever.

It just is.

Meanwhile, Barrett seems to be making the transition to our most dominant offensive force. And Simms showed impressive energy and activity last game. So that's good. (there anything else positive that I'm missing?)

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 28, 2022, 09:02:34 PM
https://www.inquisitr.com/10002372/nba-rumors-knicks-could-land-zion-williamson-for-trade-package-
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 28, 2022, 10:52:16 PM
Holy shit. Look, if you haven't seen it. Ja Morant had TWO plays tonight near the end of the second quarter that were just...unfuckingbelievable.

First, this: http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=33395108 (http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=33395108)

Then, this: http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=33395141 (http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=33395141)

What a wonderful, fabulously entertaining ballplayer.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 01, 2022, 12:50:49 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 28, 2022, 10:52:16 PM
Holy shit. Look, if you haven't seen it. Ja Morant had TWO plays tonight near the end of the second quarter that were just...unfuckingbelievable.

First, this: http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=33395108 (http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=33395108)

Then, this: http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=33395141 (http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=33395141)

What a wonderful, fabulously entertaining ballplayer.

Beautiful stuff. Grizz fans are lucky! His block v. the Lakers is still my fave of the season.


*** Quickley should take note that winning players take rather than fake quarter ending shots...
Title: Deuce McBride Starting Tonight
Post by: chipstern on March 01, 2022, 02:32:01 PM
For Westchester.

What?

You think he'll even get off the bench against Philly when we have tried and true what's the point Alec Burks?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 01, 2022, 04:14:12 PM
26 for 70 over 9 games for Burks

26 assists.  Just 11 turnovers.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 01, 2022, 04:47:40 PM
Kid, we're getting bitchslapped by most opponents, and you keep directing us to favorable stats.

Just how much do you love constant losing?

Burks is an inventive force on offensive. But playing point with the first team, he's become tedious and constricted. I don't know how you're not seeing that.
Title: BS Walks
Post by: chipstern on March 01, 2022, 04:58:14 PM
Quote from: elephant on March 01, 2022, 04:47:40 PM
Kid, we're getting bitchslapped by most opponents, and you keep directing us to favorable stats.

Just how much do you love constant losing?

Burks is an inventive force on offensive. But playing point with the first team, he's become tedious and constricted. I don't know how you're not seeing that.

An inveterate contrarian.

26 assists over 9 games?

Be still my heart.

That is what?  Like 2.9 assists per game? 

And what is our record over that 9 game stretch in which Kiid finds Burks playing so uplifting. 

📉

It is 1 & fucking 8 

In our most recent loss against Philly, Alec was 2-6 in 34 minutes, with 6 points, 5 rebounds and ZERO ASSISTS.  Burks went to the FT line ONCE.  IQ went 8-8 from the line, and had 21 points but only 1 assist.  We were outscored by Philly 34-20 in the fourth quarter.   

They have been tasked with running Thibs' missionary position offense that presents very predictable schemes, and which all too often lives and dies by threes.  Let alone shooting a collective 62% from the FT line. 

The only stat that matters is wins and losses.

We are playing LOSING BASKETBALL. 

Burks is our lead guard. 

There is no way to spin that. 

And in the process, Thibs has ironically gelded Burks, taking him completely out of his game, negating his offensive strengths, and italicizing his weaknesses, analytics be damned.  It AIN'T Working. 
Title: Since Beating Atlanta, We Are 3-15
Post by: chipstern on March 01, 2022, 06:20:48 PM
Having said all this...

It is unfair to burden McBride with the mantle of savior. 

We are playing LOSING BASKETBALL. 

To suggest that Deuce can change all of that is neither fair nor realistic. 

What IS realistic is to conclude that WE ARE BROKEN. 

And what we have been doing IS NOT WORKING. 

When Grimes and Sims were given an honest opportunity, they came through. 

So did McBride.

The last time McBride got real minutes, so did IQ, and they combined for 39 points and 13 assists in beating Houston during the Omicron breakout back on December 16. 

McBride came back on December 29. 

Was well out of rhtyhm in his next three games, and since then, Thibs has buried him, Since January 2nd, when he has seen daylight, he has not received more than three minuyes of gargBarge time. 

During his exile, when sent down to Westchester, McBride has excelled. 

Still, Thibs has made it clear that he has ZERO FAITH in McBride, let alone team mascot, Ryan Arcidiacono, also a pure PG with whom Coach will assign no daylight. 

PS: It is worth remembering that Thibs specifically lobbied the Knicks front office to draft McBride.  Still, it would seem that once you land on Coach's shit list, there ain't enough Charmin on this side of the Hudson River to clean off the stench of distrust. 

PPS: If for no other reason, relieving Burks of his PG duties, and restoring him to his accustomed 6th man/2nd unit role, could charge up his offense.   



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 01, 2022, 09:11:04 PM
Just how much do you love constant losing?


Heh

I like being right - and I enjoy the team and mostly the LEAGUE.  Look foorward to brighter days, sure. 

Knicks moves preseason were not good enough and they decided to only add Reddish at the deadline.  Plus we passed on the swiftness of Hyland.

Thinking McBride playing Burks minutes wins us games is all kinds  of silliness.

(Watching Deuce now - WC up  three late after leading by 23)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 02, 2022, 10:53:29 AM
Let's hear some opinions on Knicks-Philly II tonight

Will we sink or swim?
Title: Mr. heh (and lol) strikes YET again #43,844
Post by: carlos123 on March 02, 2022, 02:17:17 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on March 01, 2022, 09:11:04 PM
Just how much do you love constant losing?


Heh

(Watching Deuce now - WC up  three late after leading by 23)

While you were watching Deuce playing in Westchester we were watching the State of the Union Address, great speech!

But we understand that in your role as a Mexican chamaco, you may have no interest in US politics...foolishly.

- Rest in peace, Matthew  Perna -  Chamaco Cartero

CAPITOL RIOTS
Pennsylvania man awaiting sentencing in Capitol riot case dies by suicide
Matthew Perna was scheduled to be sentenced on April 1 on four counts in connection with Jan. 6.

Ok, I stand corrected, Chamaco aint no Mexican, but a Russian agent like his Dear Leader.

Pennsylvania #CapitolRiot defendant/QAnon adherent Matthew Perna has decided to throw himself on the mercy of the court and plead guilty to all of the charges against him w/o a plea deal.

He's one of dozens of rioters identified in part through Baked Alaska's livestream.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 02, 2022, 02:24:04 PM
"Great speech"


Great analysis.
Title: No heh this time
Post by: carlos123 on March 02, 2022, 02:29:20 PM
Quote from: chamAAcocartero8 on March 02, 2022, 02:24:04 PM
"Great speech"


Great analysis.

Thanks chamAAco
Title: Biden & McBride
Post by: chipstern on March 02, 2022, 04:01:36 PM
Was toggling back and forth between Westchester and Joe. 

Greene and Boebert were razzing Joe, class act that they are. 

Boebert, like the lamented Ashli Babbitt, has a criminal sheet.  What a suprise. 

Nevertheless, Joe with a triple double. 

As per bench jockey McBride, for whom ace handicapper Kiid has such a high regard, played close to 40 minutes, was 11-17 from the field, 5-7 from three,  for 29 points, 3 boards, 7 assists. 

JUST FOR THE RECORD. 

At some point in an idealized future, if and when McBride finally gets the opportunity to compete at the NBA level, when we get the inevitable Kiid post about how alone among the proles, only he saw the true potential of our puppy. 

Thinking McBride playing Burks minutes wins us games is all kinds  of silliness.

Meanwhile.

Was surprised to see Allen Crabbe out their for the Knicks, who had a breakthrough season for Portland, shooting 134-302 [.444%] from trey, earning a big contract from the Nets, where he played two years.  Crabbe was 5-8 from trey for 19-6-3

Meanwhile, like Ferdinand Franco, as of March 2, 2022, Ashli Babbitt is still dead. 

Go figure. 

PS: Our two way, Luka Samanic, a stretch 4, had a terrific start for Westchester, and appeared to be fulfilling his potential, when he hurt his foot sometime in December, and has been MIA ever since. 
Title: Dawg POUND[ing]
Post by: chipstern on March 02, 2022, 04:42:15 PM
As per Dawg's assessment of the Harden-Simmons trade?

Harden is absolutely dominating and making his team mates better.  A lot better. 

Simmons is nursing a back issue.  Woj on Simmons playing in Philly on March 10?

Don't count on it. 

As per this forum's DJ SMOOTH, Hadicapper Par Excellence Kiid, I take comfort in his reassuring analytics on the Thibs/Burks Bromance. 

Of course, since beating the Hawks, we are 3-15.

How 'bout 'DEM analytics?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 02, 2022, 05:49:51 PM
We are in the usual bad Knicks team dynamic that at this point of the year we have no idea how we want to finish games because there is nothing we do that we can expect to work.

A good part of that is the investment in Kemba lineups and deployments that we will now never use.  As a tank strategy, it has worked out pretty well.

We are still thinking while we are doing which leaves us wrong footed.

Because of our signings this past summer, our major means of roster upgrade this offseason will be trades and the draft. In either case losing games ups our stock.

Develop Sims, McBride, Grimes if healthy, Toppin and Quickley, and Barrett, and Mitch. Deploy what vets are needed to support them. Play as well as we can in the manner we want them to play going forward into the future.

We laid out how much for Noel and Taj, who I really really like, only to nickel and dime Mitch? Brilliant.

It is what it is.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 02, 2022, 06:08:53 PM
Who gets the guard minutes next year if we add a vet, since you love Miles, Quentin and Immanuel so much?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 02, 2022, 06:16:31 PM
Fact wants some vets.  But in a supporting role

Just priceless.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 02, 2022, 06:39:52 PM
I like Grimes, Rose in a contract Year, and expect one of Quickley or McBride could rise to that level.

If RJ is a 3, we need a better defender at the 4 than we currently have. If he is a 2 we are strong in the backcourt and need upgrades more urgently elsewhere on the roster.

This is a good draft for freak forwards who may defend.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 02, 2022, 07:23:58 PM
Regarding tonight. I expect Randle to play better. And would love to see IQ get back on track. Either way, that's not especially important.

What's important is to see whether Barrett can keep his foot on the accelerator.

I'm still pissed that McBride is not playing. Ridiculous.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 02, 2022, 08:54:28 PM
He IS playing - and improving.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 02, 2022, 08:58:54 PM
NBA games McBride is 15-59, 5-32 and 3-4.  5.3 PER
Title: Jackass In The House ⁷
Post by: chipstern on March 02, 2022, 10:13:15 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on March 02, 2022, 08:58:54 PM
NBA games McBride is 15-59, 5-32 and 3-4.  5.3 PER

Burks tonight?

Hazard a guess?

CRICKETS

1-FOR-8

More analytics, your smirkinghood?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 02, 2022, 10:41:37 PM
9 7 and 4   0 turnovers
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on March 02, 2022, 10:58:35 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on March 02, 2022, 10:41:37 PM
9 7 and 4   0 turnovers

Maxey
25
4
3
Title: Re: Jackass In The House ⁷
Post by: facilitatorn on March 02, 2022, 11:00:01 PM
Quote from: chipstern on March 02, 2022, 10:13:15 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on March 02, 2022, 08:58:54 PM
NBA games McBride is 15-59, 5-32 and 3-4.  5.3 PER

Burks tonight?

Hazard a guess?

CRICKETS

1-FOR-8

More analytics, your smirkinghood?

Burks was 2 of 11. You are thinking of Fournier. He was 1-8, 0-5 from 3.
Title: Re: Jackass In The House ⁷
Post by: chipstern on March 03, 2022, 02:43:11 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 02, 2022, 11:00:01 PM
Quote from: chipstern on March 02, 2022, 10:13:15 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on March 02, 2022, 08:58:54 PM
NBA games McBride is 15-59, 5-32 and 3-4.  5.3 PER

Burks tonight?

Hazard a guess?

CRICKETS

1-FOR-8

More analytics, your smirkinghood?

Burks was 2 of 11. You are thinking of Fournier. He was 1-8, 0-5 from 3.

Ah SO.

Scorecard was amiss.

Listed them both as 1 for 8.

So?

A.combined 3 for 19.

No wonder Thibs depends on them. 

But hey, zero turnovers, right Kiid?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 03, 2022, 08:54:11 AM
Burks was 2 of 11. You are thinking of Fournier. He was 1-8, 0-5 from 3.


Burks was in fact 1-8 at one juncture.

Lets face it -he is having a piss poor shooting year (unlke Fornier)

Comparing him to Maxey is silly.  This is a vet on a short, relatively low $$ deal (3-30) whose contract is movable in deals.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 03, 2022, 09:23:28 AM
But hey, zero turnovers, right Kiid?


YES

Just eleven TO in ten games for Burks

Shhoting update -  28/81 in that stretch

SIXTY rebounds to go with the 30 assists (6 steals, 5 blocks)

*Knicks have lost 13 of 15 because teams are better than us.  Not becuase we play the wrong guys.*
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 03, 2022, 12:31:39 PM
Your logic is awesome!

So you "like our guys." And you trust in the coach.

And you like how we're playing, and the role each player plays.

And if we lose most of our games, and have one of the worst records in the NBA, that's cool cuz pretty much everyone is better than us.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 03, 2022, 12:32:39 PM
Quote from: elephant on March 03, 2022, 12:31:39 PM
Your logic is awesome!

So you "like our guys." And you trust in the coach.

And you like how we're playing, and the role each player plays.

And if we lose most of our games, and have one of the worst records in the NBA, that's cool cuz pretty much everyone is better than us.

I mean there is NOTHING I can say to that!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 03, 2022, 12:40:20 PM
I have said I trust this management team.  I havent really commented on the coach.

Liking the team statement goes toward how it looks for the future.  I had a higher win total, sure -and thought we would be a playoff team.  Never said we'd even win one series.  If that is being boastful of the group...well, whatever.

Now, lets rip off 5 straight wins - or lose the rest of them.
Title: Earning Your Minutes
Post by: chipstern on March 03, 2022, 01:47:54 PM
Coach Preaches How YOU EARN YOUR MINUTES. 

Then starts a manifestly non-functional entity at Point Guard. 

Because he "trusts" veterans. 

Again, my problems with AB is not a matter of dismissing his skill set. 

He is simply MISCAST as a lead guard. 

And OBVIOUSLY....

Rose going down had a cumulative ripple effect.  As part of a second unit featuring Rose, Quickley, Burks, Toppin, Noel, AB was a very effective offensive weapon when he did not need to create his own shot or set up the offense. 

Still, irrespective of Burks natural aptitude to rudder the offense...

THE OFFENSE IS STAGNANT AND MONOLITHIC.  Everyone standing around and watching RJ & JR "create," which they can do with a degree of effectiveness, but the lack of motion or cutters allows defenses to zero in on them in the third and fourth quarters.

YOU LIVE AND DIE BY THE THREE.  In the second halves, when our offense comes grinding down to a hot static mess, all of those missed threes force our defense to play catch up on one break after another. 

OUR DEFENSE IS NOT HAPPENNING. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on March 03, 2022, 02:08:58 PM
Up double figures at halftime... was ANYONE surprised we choked away the lead in the 3rd quarter?


ENOUGH WITH THE "GuYs aRe TiRreD" EXCUSE "fRoM TThIBs PLayInG ThEm ToO MaNy MiNuTeS!!"


If you're tired after halftime you don't belong in the NBA.
Title: Last night, last straw.
Post by: lesterluv on March 03, 2022, 04:19:56 PM
So there comes a point in most seasons, these past 20 or so seasons, where I say Basta Ya, and I don't have to watch every game anymore.

It is here!

**** Maybe Burks and Yickley are the best options at PG, but I do not have to watch it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on March 03, 2022, 04:33:29 PM
Quote from: Kam on March 03, 2022, 02:08:58 PM
Up double figures at halftime... was ANYONE surprised we choked away the lead in the 3rd quarter?


ENOUGH WITH THE "GuYs aRe TiRreD" EXCUSE "fRoM TThIBs PLayInG ThEm ToO MaNy MiNuTeS!!"


If you're tired after halftime you don't belong in the NBA.

(https://c.tenor.com/q3VyM64nRr0AAAAM/drink-that70s-show.gif)

Actually, Thibs has rolled back the minutes of his CHOSEN PEOPLE slightly, with the exception of RJ. 

Last night? 

RJ [40]
JR [33]
AB [31]
EF [27]
CR [23]
MR[21]
IQ [20]
OT [15]
TG [14]
JS [13]

Deuce-RJ-Cam-JR-Mitchell

IQ-Fournier-Burks-Obi-Sims

That's how I'd go. 

But then, I'm not all that bright. 

These rotations need to be shaken up. 

(https://c.tenor.com/ZovNte92T7wAAAAd/ffs-baby.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 03, 2022, 06:02:03 PM
 Chip thinks players earn minutes by playing well in the G League

Funny.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 03, 2022, 06:10:01 PM
Deuce-RJ-Cam-JR-Mitchell

IQ-Fournier-Burks-Obi-Sims


heh
Title: And The Jordan Hill Dipshit Of The Year Award Goes To...
Post by: chipstern on March 03, 2022, 06:47:35 PM
Ass Lee Babble.

Burks 2021-2022 FG%

?

.377%

FEH
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 03, 2022, 08:06:49 PM
Yep

What part of "(Burks) is having a piss poor shooting year" didnt you get?
Title: Mr. heh (and lol) strikes YET again #43,845
Post by: carlos123 on March 03, 2022, 10:18:11 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on March 03, 2022, 06:10:01 PM
Deuce-RJ-Cam-JR-Mitchell

IQ-Fournier-Burks-Obi-Sims


heh

Impeccable reasoning, Chamaco.
Everybody overwhelmed by your wisdom.

- Rest in peace, Matthew  Perna -  Chamaco Cartero
CAPITOL RIOTS
Pennsylvania #CapitolRiot defendant/QAnon adherent Matthew Perna dies by suicide.

Hey, Les, whaddaya think about Chamaco's new hero?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 03, 2022, 11:28:07 PM
If Fournier ever comes off the bench as a Knick on  regular basis, I will feel we are ready to challenge for the East.
Title: Another of the "just touring the capitol" defendants..
Post by: lesterluv on March 04, 2022, 09:34:14 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on March 03, 2022, 10:18:11 PM
Hey, Les, whaddaya think about Chamaco's new hero?

Matthew "Broken Heart" Perna, lol? Or would that be Matthew "Zest for Life" Perna. Guess he didn't have so much Zest when he wasn't surrounded by his posse of frothing white supremacists.

Shed no tears for these idiot cowards. Krackers gonna Kroak. Was probably injecting bleach up his ass before he tried to help overthrow an election. You play, you pay.

太愚蠢了，他们让我的大脑受伤了


OT: Happy Birthday OBI TOPPIN!
Title: Re: Another of the "just touring the capitol" defendants..
Post by: chipstern on March 04, 2022, 09:55:04 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on March 04, 2022, 09:34:14 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on March 03, 2022, 10:18:11 PM
Hey, Les, whaddaya think about Chamaco's new hero?

Matthew "Broken Heart" Perna, lol? Or would that be Matthew "Zest for Life" Perna. Guess he didn't have so much Zest when he wasn't surrounded by his posse of frothing white supremacists.

Shed no tears for these idiot cowards. Krackers gonna Kroak. Was probably injecting bleach up his ass before he tried to help overthrow an election. You play, you pay.

太愚蠢了，他们让我的大脑受伤了


OT: Happy Birthday OBI TOPPIN!

A QAnon bully boy who Grump played like 10 cent Kazoo. 

Like the unlamented Assli, he glorified in being an out of control animal and did not understand that he was a tool, and that fomenting violence and threatening people has consequences.
Title: Gun Carrying, Bully Boy Faces Off Against Own Son In Court
Post by: chipstern on March 04, 2022, 10:22:41 AM
Quote from: chipstern on March 04, 2022, 09:55:04 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on March 04, 2022, 09:34:14 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on March 03, 2022, 10:18:11 PM
Hey, Les, whaddaya think about Chamaco's new hero?

Matthew "Broken Heart" Perna, lol? Or would that be Matthew "Zest for Life" Perna. Guess he didn't have so much Zest when he wasn't surrounded by his posse of frothing white supremacists.

Shed no tears for these idiot cowards. Krackers gonna Kroak. Was probably injecting bleach up his ass before he tried to help overthrow an election. You play, you pay.

太愚蠢了，他们让我的大脑受伤了


OT: Happy Birthday OBI TOPPIN!

A QAnon bully boy who Grump played like 10 cent Kazoo. 

Like the unlamented Assli, he glorified in being an out of control animal and did not understand that he was a tool, and that fomenting violence and threatening people has consequences.

This is a pretty stunning story in The TIMES. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/03/us/politics/guy-reffitt-january-6-trial.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/03/us/politics/guy-reffitt-january-6-trial.html)


In the video, a foul-mouthed Mr. Reffitt can be heard repeatedly urging people in the mob to storm into the building and drag the lawmakers, including Speaker Nancy Pelosi, out by their hair or ankles.

I didnt come here to play.  Im taking the Capitol he said at one point. I just want to see Pelosis head hitting every stair on the way out.

Faux tough guy.  Came to the "rally" armed with a gun.  Ready to rumble.  Thing is, spectators at WWF events don't generally get coralled by the FBI.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 04, 2022, 10:41:30 AM
That guy.........

should be fully prosecuted.

Mr Perna...

not so much.

Totally out of control attorney general's office.
Title: Assli Babble
Post by: chipstern on March 04, 2022, 10:48:52 AM
Forum handicapper mocks the idea that tearing up the G League means squat at the next level.

Just as tearing up college ball doesn't mean squat at the next level.  Right? 

Yes, I certainly am an innocent.  Would but that I could approach the keen insights of a man who a decade and change later continues to exalt the choice of Jordan Hill, whom we passed on DeMar DeRozen to select

According to Adrian Wojnarowski?

Nik Stauskas is signing a two year deal with the Boston Celtics his agents Mark Bartelstein and Andy Shiffman of PrioritySports tell ESPN. Stauskas had a historic week scoring 100 points on 57 and 43 point performances in back to back games for Grand Rapids

Apparently Brad Stevens believes in empowering talent. 

But in Kiid's world, it's all about Burks lack of turnovers. 

Not a 3-16 record since January 17. 

Uh Huh. 

Having been ground into dust by a coach who has eviscerated all of the strengths, neutering his postitive attributes by miscasting him as PG. 

"A Shooting Slump."

An interesting way of characterizing an offensive weapon who is posting and toasting at a 
.377 FG%

Got 31 minutes the other night in a 2-11 stinker. 

But Kiid agrees with Thibs, that he couldn't possibly find 10-12 minutes a night for a young, hungry rookie. 

(https://media2.giphy.com/media/xT1R9ETlxAesWzAeoE/200w.gif?cid=82a1493b7fh89xtm9gug8wrf2wdmqohmubxgkvy4vxtuyc2s&rid=200w.gif&ct=g)

I discern a family resemblance. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 04, 2022, 11:23:49 AM
Yes, I certainly am an innocent.  Would but that I could approach the keen insights of a man who a decade and change later continues to exalt the choice of Jordan Hill, whom we passed on DeMar DeRozen to select


I really liked DeRozen that draft.

Some here did not.  Funny.

And yes, I liked HILL as well.
Title: Choo Choo
Post by: chipstern on March 04, 2022, 11:38:23 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on March 04, 2022, 11:23:49 AM
Yes, I certainly am an innocent.  Would but that I could approach the keen insights of a man who a decade and change later continues to exalt the choice of Jordan Hill, whom we passed on DeMar DeRozen to select


I really liked DeRozen that draft.

Some here did not.  Funny.

And yes, I liked HILL as well.

Yup.  Right on time....

(https://media3.giphy.com/media/8F3bK4aq1tCo0TLkf7/giphy.gif)
Title: Chamaco's newest hero - a compilation
Post by: carlos123 on March 04, 2022, 07:34:46 PM
- Rest in peace, Matthew  Perna - Chamaco Cartero

posse of frothing white supremacists. Les, my good doggie 🐶
Krackers gonna Kroak. You play, you pay. Les, my good doggie 🐶

A QAnon bully boy who Grump played like 10 cent Kazoo. Chip Stern

Quote from: chamacocartero8 on March 04, 2022, 10:41:30 AM
Totally out of control attorney general's office.

Sure out of control. That's why they apparently have not yet started preparing for prosecuting Trumptin, as he should be. Not even Mark Meadows after a January 6 Committee referral.
Title: Obi Out
Post by: chipstern on March 04, 2022, 07:35:47 PM
Strained hammy.

How will Thibs respond?

Julius and RJ 40 + plus.

Taj.

Maybe some Cam.
Title: Proof?
Post by: carlos123 on March 04, 2022, 07:48:13 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on March 04, 2022, 11:23:49 AM
Yes, I certainly am an innocent.  Would but that I could approach the keen insights of a man who a decade and change later continues to exalt the choice of Jordan Hill, whom we passed on DeMar DeRozen to select


I really liked DeRozen that draft.

Some here did not.  Funny.

And yes, I liked HILL as well.

Chamaco, as usual, self-congratulating for fact-free assertions.

Did you actually post about liking DeRozan in that draft?
Some here did not. Who?

Proof?
Title: Re: Obi Out. Hoping for garbage time...
Post by: carlos123 on March 04, 2022, 07:56:01 PM
Quote from: chipstern on March 04, 2022, 07:35:47 PM
Strained hammy.

How will Thibs respond?

Julius and RJ 40 + plus.

Taj.

Maybe some Cam.

On the other hand, if we are down by 40+ points with 5 minutes left, he may pull Julius and RJ, and generously give the 5 minutes of garbage time to some youth.
Title: Julius
Post by: chipstern on March 05, 2022, 12:01:28 AM
WTF?

Oh, man.
Title: 4th
Post by: chipstern on March 05, 2022, 12:13:24 AM
Here we go
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 05, 2022, 12:23:07 AM
lol I swear we had a 14 pt lead when I finally turn this thing on!

* Gone

**Thibs has Deuce in!! Playing off ball, wtf???? The whole point is that Quick is the worst PG in the world!! The point is to take the ball out of Quick's hands! Thibs is an idiot!

****Julius was ejected? What an idiot lol..


****** Are we going to win despite all this idiocy?? We will see!


******** Thank you Mitch!!!   X2!!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on March 05, 2022, 12:43:52 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on March 05, 2022, 12:23:07 AM
lol I swear we had a 14 pt lead when I finally turn this thing on!

* Gone

**Thibs has Deuce in!! Playing off ball, wtf???? The whole point is that Quick is the worst PG in the world!! The point is to take the ball out of Quick's hands! Thibs is an idiot!

****Julius was ejected? What an idiot lol..


****** Are we going to win despite all this idiocy?? We will see!

Yikes
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 05, 2022, 12:47:02 AM
I am the only idiot (for turning on the game.)

**** To be a Knick fan is to.....
Title: Not the only idiot
Post by: carlos123 on March 05, 2022, 12:50:45 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on March 05, 2022, 12:47:02 AM
I am the only idiot f(or turning on the game.)

And we are CURSED.

No Devin Booker (and CP3), and we still manage to lose.

AARRGGGHHHH!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 05, 2022, 12:54:33 AM
Randle finds new ways to lose games!

But it's not all bad. We showed the world that we can almost beat one of the best NBA teams if their best two players are out.
Title: Thibs
Post by: chipstern on March 05, 2022, 12:55:57 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on March 05, 2022, 12:47:02 AM
I am the only idiot for turning on the game.

Reddish was playing well, had just made a beautiful drive to the hoop.

And Thibs reflexively removes Cam for his Trusted VETERAN, who proceeds to launch two air balls. 

Burks, who'd played his best game in weeks, blows a FT.

And Cam Johnson?  Wasn't he the bro Julius got T'd up against and ejected.

I just knew with Biblical certitude that his shot was going.  A banker trey no less. 

And on the missed Burks FT, no one fouled. 

Bad decisions upon bad decisions.

And Thibs pulling Reddish.

TO BE A KNICKS FAN IS TO SUFFER.

Julius enjoying that extra shove on Cam.  Fucking idiot.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 05, 2022, 01:10:44 AM
Yeah, I was yelling as soon as he took out Reddish.

He's finally looking comfortable out there and.....why?  What...what....aren't these the times you leave him in?

I mean, are you bringing Fournier in for defense? Just crazy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 05, 2022, 01:14:41 AM
BTW, all game long before the foul tech kerfuffle, Cam Johnson was whining about the physical contact. It was clearly getting under his skin.

Randle rising to the bait and going after him? A gift. Which would become the best quarter of his career.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 05, 2022, 01:22:10 AM
That was the Knicksiest Knicks game of the whole season.

Indiana is proving persistently bad, but it looks like we may be able to pass a couple more western conference teams on our way to the bottom.

By the way, we are still low balling Mitch for some reason.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 05, 2022, 01:25:54 AM
Mitch may go through a lot of agents, but the dude sure knows how to peak at the right time.

He will get paid.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 05, 2022, 09:05:20 AM
Didnt catch the game

Looking at the box, looks like short bench, fine effort

Onward!
Title: Re: Julius
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 05, 2022, 10:18:27 AM
Quote from: chipstern on March 05, 2022, 12:01:28 AM
WTF?

Oh, man.

Hey..good post bro.

Heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 05, 2022, 04:11:58 PM
You should get the mold cleared from the wreckage of your wasted life, Kid.

Watch or do not watch, you still have no idea what actually happens during a basketball game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 05, 2022, 04:15:22 PM
My resume dwarfs yours, quite surely.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 05, 2022, 04:23:33 PM
I am sure you failed upward right into the asshole you currently inhabit.

Many people would have had much richer lives had they simply never met you. I am sure you think that is some kind of accomplishment.
Title: Mr. heh (and lol) strikes YET again #43,846
Post by: carlos123 on March 05, 2022, 05:31:33 PM
Quote from: chamAAcocartero8 on March 05, 2022, 10:18:27 AM
Quote from: chipstern on March 05, 2022, 12:01:28 AM
WTF?

Oh, man.

Hey..good post bro.

Heh

- Rest in peace, Matthew  Perna - Chamaco Cartero

posse of frothing white supremacists. Les, my good doggie 🐶
Krackers gonna Kroak. You play, you pay. Les, my good doggie 🐶
A QAnon bully boy who Grump played like 10 cent Kazoo. Chip Stern
Title: Chamaco's masterpiece
Post by: carlos123 on March 05, 2022, 05:33:30 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on March 05, 2022, 04:15:22 PM
My resume dwarfs yours, quite surely.

This needs no comment. LMAO 😁😂🤣
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 05, 2022, 09:31:30 PM
I, for one, would really love to see that resume.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on March 05, 2022, 09:41:18 PM
Quote from: elephant on March 05, 2022, 09:31:30 PM
I, for one, would really love to see that resume.

You'll have to take a number and wait in line, until he slices the lady's order of Montery Jack Off and Bologna. 
Title: Chamaco's resume
Post by: carlos123 on March 05, 2022, 09:50:05 PM
Quote from: chipstern on March 05, 2022, 09:41:18 PM
Quote from: elephant on March 05, 2022, 09:31:30 PM
I, for one, would really love to see that resume.

You'll have to take a number and wait in line, until he slices the lady's order of Montery Jack Off and Bologna.

Ah, but before this job at the supermarket deli he had a very important one:

Bathroom personal assistant to former president Trumptin. He held the president's cellular phone while he was doing his business in the toilet, and then took care of cleaning his behind, so that Trumptin could finish whatever he was twitting on the phone.
Title: Be Nice
Post by: chipstern on March 05, 2022, 10:47:21 PM
(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/2536018/sub_cut_glove.0.gif)
Title: Oh
Post by: carlos123 on March 06, 2022, 01:05:54 AM
Oh, do you not think I was nice to Chamaco?
I hear he loved the Trumptin job, did you not, Chamaco?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 06, 2022, 01:22:30 AM
Quote from: chipstern on March 05, 2022, 09:41:18 PM
Quote from: elephant on March 05, 2022, 09:31:30 PM
I, for one, would really love to see that resume.

You'll have to take a number and wait in line, until he slices the lady's order of Montery Jack Off and Bologna.

Found it:

1980-1999 Belching
2000-2009 Burping
2010-present Farting
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 06, 2022, 10:56:02 AM
Wow - just finished watching the game

Tough loss for those still looking to make the East Ten.

Didnt have good possessions late.  All told desppite what Thibs said after first quarter about 26 being too much to allow for a quarter (R Jefferson chuckled at this) I thought we defended well.

Some real good talent on Suns depth chart.  My guy Payne is a great cog for them.  Good story on how Monty kid of rescued Cam a couple years back.

Late night - Clippers -after a lonnnnng weekend?  Likely i dont get to it - but enjoy.  Will try to catch the recap to see what ACTUALLY occurred rather than believe what is written here
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 06, 2022, 10:57:25 AM
Sixers score 82 minus Harden

Heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 06, 2022, 03:22:15 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on March 06, 2022, 10:56:02 AM
Will try to catch the recap to see what ACTUALLY occurred rather than believe what is written here

That one hurts.

I had always hoped in my heart of hearts that you were spiritually nourished by the opinions on this page. That our impressions were something you could embrace in the long night of the soul, when there was little else to calm your feverish hallucinations.

But now I see that we've failed in that endeavor.

Failed. And we must live with that failure every day of our lives.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 06, 2022, 03:29:57 PM
Saw LeBron's 50

Says here he efforts to go back to back for history's sake

Great win for LAL
Title: Mr. heh (and lol) strikes YET again #43847
Post by: carlos123 on March 06, 2022, 04:23:29 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on March 06, 2022, 10:57:25 AM
Sixers score 82 minus Harden

Heh

Given the quality of your comments, I say this is one of your better posts, actually the best of at least all of 2022.

elephant, take comfort in the greatness of Chamaco wisdom for the disappointment of his disparaging comment about all of us. Given the heights of his mind, we probably deserve it, if only by comparison.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 06, 2022, 05:14:22 PM
By the way, all you Julius crushers lamenting how Randle lost the game vs Suns...


Your charges played mostly beautiful ball.  Vs a 50 win (already) team.  And had the game won had

a)  The dependable Burks canned the back end of the 1 and 1 and we defended fter that - maybe even fouling befoe a game tying three could be attempted

or

b)  RJ Barrett played the last sequence differently.

Take a look at the last play nd tell me I am wrong.   Barrett PASSED on an opportuni ty for a backtap steal - then guarded....nobody - just stayed out of the way.

Sad - as Barrett hs played well.
Title: YOUTH HAS BEEN SERVED
Post by: chipstern on March 07, 2022, 12:26:37 AM
🖤💕🖤💕🖤

Finally
Title: Finally!
Post by: carlos123 on March 07, 2022, 12:30:05 AM
5 minutes to go, but we cannot possibly lose this game.
Finally coach played the youth in the 4 Q. Did someone tell him it was time to give it a try, or did the idea come out of his own hard, stubborn head?

Anyway, we need to wait until Chamaco watches the replay, and then he will tell us all we need to know about this game. What could we possibly do without the great Chamaco telling us what we need to know?
Title: Thibs
Post by: chipstern on March 07, 2022, 12:36:27 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on March 07, 2022, 12:30:05 AM
5 minutes to go, but we cannot possibly lose this game.
Finally coach played the youth in the 4 Q. Did someone tell him it was time to give it a try, or did the idea came out of his own hard, stubborn head?

Anyway, we need to wait until Chamaco watches the replay, and then he will tell us all we need to know about this game. What could we possibly do without the great Chamaco telling us what we need to know?

Cam
I
Am

IQ

RJ

PS: And a cognitive moment for Thibs.  I was terrified that Thibs would swap out the vets for the pups.  McBride and Sims and Reddish for the entire fucking 4th quarter.  Thibs even smiled.  Wish Monica McNutt was in the studio
Title: Re: Finally!
Post by: carlos123 on March 07, 2022, 12:38:17 AM
Quote from: chipstern on March 07, 2022, 12:36:27 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on March 07, 2022, 12:30:05 AM
5 minutes to go, but we cannot possibly lose this game.
Finally coach played the youth in the 4 Q. Did someone tell him it was time to give it a try, or did the idea come out of his own hard, stubborn head?

Anyway, we need to wait until Chamaco watches the replay, and then he will tell us all we need to know about this game. What could we possibly do without the great Chamaco telling us what we need to know?

Cam
I
Am

IQ

RJ

And Deuce!

(and Sims too)
Title: Re: Finally!
Post by: chipstern on March 07, 2022, 12:55:54 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on March 07, 2022, 12:38:17 AM
Quote from: chipstern on March 07, 2022, 12:36:27 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on March 07, 2022, 12:30:05 AM
5 minutes to go, but we cannot possibly lose this game.
Finally coach played the youth in the 4 Q. Did someone tell him it was time to give it a try, or did the idea come out of his own hard, stubborn head?

Anyway, we need to wait until Chamaco watches the replay, and then he will tell us all we need to know about this game. What could we possibly do without the great Chamaco telling us what we need to know?

Cam
I
Am

IQ

RJ

And Deuce!

(and Sims too)

18 minutes for Deuce

Sims and Mitchell with 22 rebounds.

 Burks.with an excellent game as he was often featured off the ball with RJ igniting/initiating the offense.

WE PLAYED D
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 07, 2022, 03:42:06 PM
Three things.

1. It was great watching what Cam Reddish can bring. Play the motherfucker!
2. Was this IQ's best game of the year? Such a reminder of what he can bring, and what a mediocre sophomore year he's had.
3. I do believe RJ has turned the corner. He's here. A real force in every game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 07, 2022, 05:48:32 PM
We are playing Kemba the right amount of minutes. Faze out Evan and this team could really take off.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on March 07, 2022, 06:07:10 PM
Quote from: elephant on March 07, 2022, 03:42:06 PM
Three things.

1. It was great watching what Cam Reddish can bring. Play the motherfucker!
2. Was this IQ's best game of the year? Such a reminder of what he can bring, and what a mediocre sophomore year he's had.
3. I do believe RJ has turned the corner. He's here. A real force in every game.

Cam & RJ both adept at attacking the basket and finishing at the rim. 

Grimes is a better catch and shoot 3-point man.  Have not seen him quite as aggressive going to the rack as Reddish. 

Cam gives us coverage at the 2-3-4, and he was playing a lot of small ball, Jerami Grant-4 last night. 

The potential for his all around offensive game, gives me pause about Obi, whom I love, but he cannot create his own offense like Cam. 

Thank GOD we did not include Cam in a three way with the Lakers and Raptors for fucking Goran Dragic. 

He plays D, makes his free throws.  Vapor locked a couple of times with travels.  But his forays to the paint took my breath away.  He is so tall and long, a real 6'8" and whereas RJ sort of wills himself to the rack with muscle, Cam is kind of like the sideshow RubberMan, or the Fantastic Four's Reed Richards if you like. 

The IQ-Deuce back court was interesting.  Hahn and Szerbiak made an interesting point about IQ, that it seems less a matter of him becoming more heady as a faciliator, as that he's been attacking the rim and not so readily settling for threes.  When he attacks, and draws coverage, possibilities emerge for his team mates. 

Deuce is sometimes over aggressive, but he sets a no nonsense defensive tone for the PupSquad when he is out there.  I was glad to see him finally nail a three, considering how unconscious he has been in G League.  Would like to see him get a chance to play on the ball as well as off the ball, but apparently IQ has earned that privilege. 

TOO LITTLE TOO LATE?

RJ's emergence as our 21 year old leader and his aggression with the ball, while not playing point, draws point like attention from the D.  And glas to see him going to the rack more and not hoisting as many threes. 

His aggression and efficiency in getting to the rack, has had a positive effect on Mitchell, Julius and Alec.

Mitchell's free throw shooting is an indictible war crime, but his put backs and finishes, lobs from team mates, and steely D bodes well for his future, HOPEFULLY WITH THE KNICKS.  He is stronger in the trunk, and his endurance/wind is getting better. 

Interesting how, brain farts notwithstanding, Julius' game has been much more forceful, going to the hoop, beast in the blocks.  He recovered from a crappy first quarter to make a contribution.  Have to wonder if he came to camp in the same kind of shape he did last year.  Glad he is starting to zero in on his midrange shot, the first quarter excepted, and not hoisiting so many three. 

Burks?  Because he was tasked less last night with initiating the offense, and was able to freelance more off the ball, it seemed to free him up to get the kind of catch and shoot jumpers he was making all last season.  Hit 4-8 threes, had 4 assists, and no turnovers [Happy Kiid?]. 

Sims [+15]-Reddish[+22]-Barrett [+36]-McBride [+27]-Quickley [+15]

RJ with 24-9-4 and was 7-7 from the FT Line. 

I don't want to get too giddy, but Thibs FINALLY empowering the Pups, and for the entire fourth quarter was hopeful. 

Sabonis and Barnes and Fox await. 

Fingers crossed. 

(https://peelslowlynsee.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/feldman-and-turpin.jpg?w=584)

Eyes too. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 07, 2022, 06:50:34 PM
Knicks getting 4 points tonight in Sactown

Interesting
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 07, 2022, 06:52:58 PM
Quote from: elephant on March 07, 2022, 03:42:06 PM
Three things.

1. It was great watching what Cam Reddish can bring. Play the motherfucker!
2. Was this IQ's best game of the year? Such a reminder of what he can bring, and what a mediocre sophomore year he's had.
3. I do believe RJ has turned the corner. He's here. A real force in every game.

Good post, 'phant.
Title: ???
Post by: chipstern on March 07, 2022, 07:50:13 PM
(https://y.yarn.co/cf5128d2-515d-4783-adc0-e7824ffb6c60_text.gif)

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/81/cb/cf/81cbcf44757d9d20fc51ae7c1b0020a1.gif)

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/6f9b23ee9650140bc6a53c783440ee79/tumblr_pm1kf43VoP1rchkzlo4_250.gifv)
Title: 21st Century Schizoid Knicks
Post by: chipstern on March 08, 2022, 02:00:52 AM
Damn.

That was a roller coaster ride.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 08, 2022, 02:24:31 AM
Taj Gibson, man.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 08, 2022, 08:44:33 AM
Funny things do happen in sport.

2 team-based wins could recharge a team and send them to a lofty level.

Just sayin....

Loss column pplayoff look

Knicks 5 games back of 3  teams - just need one to shit the bed.  17 to play (11- 6, 12-5.....and who knows?)

A win now vs Mavs does make it interesting....
Title: Re: ???
Post by: lesterluv on March 08, 2022, 09:53:35 AM
Quote from: chipstern on March 07, 2022, 07:50:13 PM

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/81/cb/cf/81cbcf44757d9d20fc51ae7c1b0020a1.gif)


Lot of speculation out there, possibilities: He

- has gone underground to protect his pet hamster as the cull extends to Beijing.

- is off to Mongolia in search of a genuine Pfizer jab

- Most likely tripped up the police app while trying to buy tylenol a milkshake and is in his third week of isolation here:

(https://i2-prod.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article25918323.ece/ALTERNATES/n310p/1_THP_CHP_110122Slug_9569JPG.jpg)

不便？不便？我们在谈论他妈的不便？

(https://media.giphy.com/media/12p7gvFyN4Faco/giphy.gif)
Title: Free Agent Signings & Trades & Draft Grades [Apologies To Pharoah]
Post by: chipstern on March 08, 2022, 05:02:04 PM
Quote from: elephant on March 08, 2022, 02:24:31 AM
Taj Gibson, man.

(https://img.discogs.com/OELMAKkjXDNOucTNWEmUZtC76Ps=/fit-in/300x300/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(40)/discogs-images/R-5137539-1406459348-5782.jpeg.jpg)

Taj Gibson is 500% More MAN

Leon & WWW's Shit Show

Taj Gibson [A]: All the does is show up and play, a leader on and off the court, offensively and defensively.  ALWAYS Ready

Julius Randle [B-/Incomplete]: It took Julius 3/4 of the season to have a game like last night, and for he and Thibs to finally move away from tasking him with being a facilitator and the defacto #1 option, in part because of the emergence of RJ and more recently IQ--which dramatically cuts down on his turnovers, and has contributed to his efficiency.  His focused aggression, as opposed to his misplaced aggression, all came together last night, as it hasn't since his peaks of 2020-21: his brute focus in driving to the rack, his midrange game, and last night, after a horrific first quarter, a recalibrated three pointer [8-16].  Showed some greater interest in D, though the presence of rival Sabonis surely had something to do with that.  As he admitted, post-game, he was not SECOND GUESSING HIMSELF.  PS: Hugging his ex-Pelicans coach Alvin Gentry affectionately post-game to keep him from going after the refs, showed a level of self-awareness, and humor, in the wake of his dumbass ejection, that was a welcome development.  PPS: Ceding the lead facilitator #1 option role to RJ, has supercharged Barrett's growth, and enhanced his own game by deflating his ego, and focusing his strengths. 

Derrick Rose [Incomplete]: Pre-Operation, Derrick was showing a significant skll set and leadership that steadied the ship, when he went down.  His 3-pt shooting was dramtically better and his FF shooting, while he was not getting to the line nearly enough, 30-31  is nothing to sneeze at.  Still, how much is left in the tank?  Enough to return and make a run at the #10 spot?  To be an effctive mentor to Quickley, McBride and possibly Jokubaitis in 2022-23? 

Kemba Walker [D-]: Showed flashes of his offensive acumen, and was a positive teammate, but could not guard anyone, and the offense seemed to grind to a fucking halt when he was on the floor.  Leon and WWW were too clever by half, and Kemba's inabillity to mesh or perform 75-85% of the time, put the kibbosh on team chemistry, cohesion, our team defense and the development of IQ and Deuce for most of the season.

Nerlens Noel [D-]:  As BoD likes to point out, in moments of humility, committing such monies over two seasons [with a third year team option] when suitable/affordable free agent role player options [Howard, Drummond, Biyombo, Jordan, Robin Lopez, Demarcus Cousins] was an overly sunshiney assessment of NN's skill set and durability.  He played heroically in 2020-21, but has been utterly incapable of staying on the court in 2021-2022, and presents us with a untradeable contract [$9.2 Million] in the offseason, lest significant assets are attached. 

Evan Fournier: [C+/B-]: The Frenchman has heart, an offensive skill set and character enough to own his failings, but has been plagued by inconsistency.  When locked in, he is a deadly three point sniper, and is surprisingly nimble in going to the hoop, but has had a tendency to fade demonstrably in the fourth as he did against Phoenix, when Thibs inexplicably subbed him back in for Reddish, who was having and excellent run, and EF proceeded to launch a couple of dying quail.  Thibs did NOT repeat that mistake against the Clips and Kings.  While a game defender, it is surely not his forte, and with two guaranteed years remaining at aroughly 18-19 million, it will take some creativity and likely the sacrifice of some assets to explore offloading him.  Likley he remains, but will find himself in more of a sixth man/second team role with the emergence of RJ, Cam and Quentin.  DeMar DeRozan we hardly knew ye.  Rose and WWW made a serious miscalculation in overestimating the value of Kemba, and underestimating the value and leadership of DeMar. 

Alec Burks [B-/B]: Has remained healthy and taken one for the team on a niglty basis, even as he, too, like Julius and IQ, has suffered in being tasked as a facilitator, taking away as it does from his offensive game, and his judgement has often been faulty, as he has faded notably in fourth quarters [more telling than his missed free thrown against Phoenix was his lack of awareness after Mitch's defensive play, remaining stationary instead of driving the ball up court, taking more time off of the clock].  But he has reamained game if at times overtasked/overmatched with thankless responsibilities, has endeavored to defend and remain positive.  The past few games, again, with less on ball responsiblities, has seen an uptick in his threat as an offensive option. 

Luka Samanic [Incomplete]: The Curse Of Nerlens.  The 6'10" 22 year old two-way signing was emerging as a significant offensive force for Westchester in the G League, when this stretch 4 he went down with a foot injury in December, and has not been heard from since. 

Rokas Jokubaitis [Incomplete]: The 6'5" Lithuanian PG with a 6'9" wingspan, has been manning up for Barcelona in Europe, a very high level of competition, with a 56 FG%, 52 3-PT%, 86 FT%.  Are the Knicks likley to push for him to come over for 2022-2023?  Would Thibs be likely to show him some daylight?  How might he mesh with IQ, Quentin, Deuce and Cam as Rose is likely handed the keys to the first unit?  Might he prosper in the G League as Deuce did?  Would he accept such a possibility.  Inviting Kiid's mockery here, but I sure hope we do not trade our entire team for another savior, given how our puppies have responded when afforded the opportunity.  ROHAS WILL BE 22 In November. 

Jericho Sims [B-]: The 6'9" 250 pounder was our second two-way contract, and has, by and large shown such remarkable upside and discipline for a #58 pick, that by and large, he has remained with the big club all season.  Despite being a tad undersized for a Center [not unlike Taj, though 20 pounds heavier], he is game, agile, comeptitive and can leap out of the gym.  His serene visage bespeaks a ferocious competitive battler, and he fights hard for every board, sets good picks, and seems to get better with every game.  Offensive limitations are manifest, but he clearly has a work ethic and is a high character, intelligent cat. 

Quentin Grimes [B+]: The #25 pick was emerging as a trusted Thibs rotation player when he got injured.  No sense in rushing him back, as he is clearly the real deal.  A sometimes unconscious spot up catch and shoot three point sniper, and a savage defender with a solid 6'4" frame.  Can seemingly find his way to the rack, but not so dramatic creating off the bounce, and by and large was going with his shooting prowess.  That's two years Leon & WWW [and presumably Perry, though he seems to be outvoted in many matters, such as DeRozan] scored with the #25 pick [IQ]. 

Deuce McBride [B-/B]: A damn nice pick at #36, and while struggling to crack the rotation, given Thibs' commitment to IQ and the emergence of Grimes, stayed positive, and tore up the G League.  The last couple of games, Thibs finally relented, and he has taken some of Fournier's minutes, earning Coach's trust with his tenacious, sometimes overly aggressive defense, which appears to have a cumulative effect on the second unit's overall D.  Was initially playing off the ball with IQ, but last night got a number of possessions running the point, and he and IQ seem to be having a positive reciprocal effect on each other.  Was tearing it up from three in Westchester, and finally nailed a three, though he still needs to show some of that tenacity going to the rack he showed in the G & Summer League.  Slowly gaining Thibs' trust and we know who that is. 

Cam Reddish [B-/B]: CAM I AM, as dubbed by Clyde, Was also slowly gaining Thibs' trust when he went down, gleaning minutes in light of the absence of Grimes and Toppin.  Sure hope he is okay, because while he has been plagued by erratic moments and brain farts, his moments of focus such as his limber finished around the rack, have been breathtaking.  He is long and limber, an authentic 6'8", with SpiderMan 7'1" wingspan, capable of playing effectively at the 3-4-2 spots, an excellent FT shooter who has shown he can create contact and get to the line with consistency, while still calibrating his three point rifle.  Oh, and has shown he can defend, though like Deuce, his aggression sometimes gets the best of him.  Watching him and fellow Dukie RJ attack the rim in the open court makes my skin tingle.  Those dipshits in the fan-o-sphere, complaining about how we didn't make any moves at the trade deadline?  Hello!  We cashed in Knox, who while an excellent spot up three point shooter, making incrfemental improvements on D, didn't have Cam's wingspan, agility, abillity to create off the bounce, defense or Coach's trust.  Rather than letting KK walk for nothing, like Frank, we cashed him in, and the #19 we paid forward with Charlotte to save cash on #1 signings [with the caveat that we could likely get Grimes at #25 and McBride at #36, let alone Jokubaitis at #34 thanks to offloading our #32 pick to OKC] MIGHT NOT CONVEY to Atlanta, as Charlotte is on the cusp of the 1-18 scrum. 

PS: The emergence of RJ & IQ, taking command as it were, both in leadership and performance, this past stretch of games, seems to have reframed the team, perhaps too late for a final push, but certainly has brought out the best in Julius, and our remaining puppies, and if the lessons gleaned and chemistry earned, can build upon the collective team cohesion and spirit we have seen the past few games, and helped downshift Julius into a more effective, aggressive second option, and not a point fucking forward, well, that is something to unpack for 2022-23. 

PPS...THIBS [C+/Incomplete]: Yes I have plenty of issues with the Sultan Of Stubborn, but we still have the final furlongs to complete, and while fate and the fans and management and injuries seem to have forced his hand, given the rocky journey of the past month and change, and I don't want to get too fucking giddy over two consecutive wins, we are entering a terrifying stretch this week with Dallas, Memphis and Brooklyn topping off our final 17 games.  Let's see how we play and how Thibs rudders the team, let alone the 4 1/2 games we stiil have to make up for the 10th spot, assuming Atlanta fades and Washington doesn't outduel us in the Porzingis Epoch [we play the Wizards on March 18 and April 8. 

(https://sportsnaut.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/16178259-750x422.jpg)
Title: Rokas Jokubaitis
Post by: chipstern on March 08, 2022, 05:35:46 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4PRoyHWraQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4PRoyHWraQ)

OKAY.  Cool your jets, Chip. 

* He is only 21. 

* Barcelona is a top tier Euro team, but the EruoLeagues are not the NBA.

* Decent size for a PG/Combo, but not the most athletic motherfucker I've ever seen. 

* He plays pesky defense, but again, THE NBA level.

HOWEVER, we traded down to take Rokas AND Deuce in the second round, and nailed the Lithuanian kid at #34, two spots ahead of McBride at #36.  SOMEONE amongs the Knicks Euro-Scouts saw something.  AND WHAT DID THEY SEE? 

* He can really shoot from trey and makes his FTs at a near IQ-level. 

* He has excellent court vision, sees the court really well, and keeps his dribble.

* He is capable of the long pull up three, of stopping and popping in the midrange off of the dribble, and of going north/south and finishing. 

* One thing I have seen that impresses me, offensively, and again, COOL YOUR JETS, CHIP, is he has a way of pulling up, crossing his dribble, getting his defender to guard against a potential drive by, then stepping back and nailing the three.  And who does this move put me in mind of.  DERRICK ROSE, that's who.  Again, not that degree of speed and athleticism, pre or post-injury Rose, however, there are guys who are great athletes, and then there are guys who have superior basketball skills.  Again, I should be struck down by lightning for mentioning this kid in the same breath as Doncic and Bird, but their basketball skill set is far superior to their physical gifts, though one may count among those gifts, superior size and focus for point wings/forwards. 

* Rokas will be 22 in November. 

Maybe he needs another year of seasoning.  Maybe 2022-23 is the year to roll the dice.  I like Jalen Brunson a lot, but at 20-25 million per, and us with no cap space and a pricey sign and trade thus our most viable option, well. 

And I LOVE Donovan Mitchell, but the whole, stop me if the Donovan wants out, he wants to play in NY, Assistant Head Coach Johnny Bryant is really close to him, WORLDWIDEWAST is concocting a trade has a familiar ring. 

Donovan is a more advanced version of Quick.  Great offensive player on or off the ball, and an excellent facilitator. 

But most of the fantasies I've seen center around, minimally, multiple draft picks AND RJ Barrett.  NO FUCKING WAY I AM DANGLING R.J.  I mean, that is how you repay hard work and LOYALTY?  Someone who WANTS TO BE A KNICK?  Fuck You. 

Another Blog-O-Wack-A-Mole genius proposed, with a straight face, Randle, Quickley, Reddish plus [PLUS] Three #1 picks and three #2 picks. 

So, I'm just silly enough to want to give Rokas a look, rather than go for the WorldWideWaste BIG SPLASH. 

PS: Of course, the Knicks signing ex-Minnesota exec GERSSON ROSAS translates into OH HE HAS A GREAT RELATIONSHIP with KARL ANTHONY TOWNS.

PPS: Anyway, I am rambling.  DALLAS tomorrow night represents a serious reality check.  We beat Doncic and the Mavs convinctingly some months back, but the Doncic is in much better shape, playing at a whole other level, making beautiful music with Spencer Dimiwiddie, and Jason Kidd has the Mavs playing at a very high level in the West.  WE SHALL SEE. 
Title: Re: Free Agent Signings & Trades & Draft Grades [Apologies To Pharoah]
Post by: elephant on March 08, 2022, 08:26:06 PM
Quote from: chipstern on March 08, 2022, 05:02:04 PM
 

Kemba Walker [D-]: Showed flashes of his offensive acumen, and was a positive teammate, but could not guard anyone, and the offense seemed to grind to a fucking halt when he was on the floor.  Leon and WWW were too clever by half, and Kemba's inabillity to mesh or perform 75-85% of the time, put the kibbosh on team chemistry, cohesion, our team defense and the development of IQ and Deuce for most of the season.

Nerlens Noel [D-]:  As BoD likes to point out, in moments of humility, committing such monies over two seasons [with a third year team option] when suitable/affordable free agent role player options [Howard, Drummond, Biyombo, Jordan, Robin Lopez, Demarcus Cousins] was an overly sunshiney assessment of NN's skill set and durability.  He played heroically in 2020-21, but has been utterly incapable of staying on the court in 2021-2022, and presents us with a untradeable contract [$9.2 Million] in the offseason, lest significant assets are attached. 

This team assessment is great, but there's a lot to unpack, and I've got quibbles all around.

Like a D- because a dude is hurt? Come on. Noel deserves more respect than that. Now if you're giving the D- to the front office for giving him a contract when they should have prophesied the injury, alright. But it's not Noel's fault he's not in there.

As for Walker, in retrospect, it's clear that he has never been physically right as a Knick, that Thibs knew that, and that it was a major fuck up for his bosses to misjudge the extent of his physical problems. I don't blame Walker for doing what he can, but it was far from enough, and I suppose your grade was apt.
Title: Re: Free Agent Signings & Trades & Draft Grades [Apologies To Pharoah]
Post by: elephant on March 08, 2022, 08:33:53 PM
Quote from: chipstern on March 08, 2022, 05:02:04 PM

PPS...THIBS [C+/Incomplete]: Yes I have plenty of issues with the Sultan Of Stubborn, but we still have the final furlongs to complete, and while fate and the fans and management and injuries seem to have forced his hand, given the rocky journey of the past month and change, and I don't want to get too fucking giddy over two consecutive wins, we are entering a terrifying stretch this week with Dallas, Memphis and Brooklyn topping off our final 17 games.  Let's see how we play and how Thibs rudders the team, let alone the 4 1/2 games we stiil have to make up for the 10th spot, assuming Atlanta fades and Washington doesn't outduel us in the Porzingis Epoch [we play the Wizards on March 18 and April 8. 

At this point, this grade is way too generous. I think the Knicks are good enough to be a playoff team right now. Just as Thibs was praised for surprising success with the Knicks last season, he should be criticized for his poor management of the team this year. He and Randle face the same question: Can they change and grow with the game? For Thibs, the answer seems to be......NO.

C-
Title: El A Phant
Post by: chipstern on March 08, 2022, 09:01:49 PM
I think your quibbles are all legit. 

COVID and injuries and lack of chemistry and cohesion amongst our squad all contributing factors. 

Not Noel's fault? Fair enough, but rolling the dice with a 2 + 1 on a player with a checkered injury history?  Not that $8.8 and $9.2 is over the top, but we are locked in to that through 2023. 

And as per Thibs, I have plenty of issues with him, though not quite at the Papal Bull level of some fans. 

But consider the hand he was dealt. 

No one is crying any tears over waving bye bye to Elfrid Payton, and a case could be made for the Fournier/Bullock sawp being a wash.  But whereas Payton's game was not predicated on him being an offensive focus, he was a decent facilitator and a tough defender, whereas Kemba is used to being the focus of the offense, and was never a robust defender, even pre-gimpy knees. 

More to the point [point guard that is, son], THE overall CHEMISTRY was fucked; the roles of RJ and JR becamse so garbled as they sought to accomodate Kemba and ended up fucking their own games up...

Blaming Thibs for THIS? 

No.  He shoulders some of the blame, for sure, but the front office dealt him a really fucked up focus at the PG.  Kemba upended the offensive cohesion, confused RJ & JR as to their roles, and torpedoed the Defense.  Thibs' exiling Kemba was a crappy response, but it had to be killing him. 

No, I'll stick with a C+ for Thibs, while giving the front office a B+ on the draft and a C- on free agency. 

As per Thibs final grade?  Be it C- or D or B-, well, we have 17 games to assess his impact. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 08, 2022, 09:24:56 PM
FIFTY spot for Kyrie


Hoooooot.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 09, 2022, 12:52:30 AM
Against a buttery soft hornets team it is not that impressive.
Title: Oh, Waiter
Post by: chipstern on March 09, 2022, 04:15:44 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 09, 2022, 12:52:30 AM
Against a buttery soft hornets team it is not that impressive.

Not that impressive, MF?

Your Credibility Is Leaking. 

HELLO: Kyrie was 15-of-19 from the field, and 9-of-12 from trey.  

I don't care if it was against the Washington Generals. 

That be some EPIC top tier ballin'.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 09, 2022, 05:03:32 PM
Yankguy doesn't like him very much
Title: Re: Oh, Waiter
Post by: lesterluv on March 09, 2022, 06:20:19 PM
Quote from: chipstern on March 09, 2022, 04:15:44 PM

HELLO: Kyrie was 15-of-19 from the field, and 9-of-12 from trey.  

Pretty impressive stuff. A shame basketball is just his part-time hobby.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 09, 2022, 06:37:18 PM
Not by his choosing but you could make a case the rules are keeping Irving healthy and fresh.
Title: RON MILES [May 9, 1963 - March 8, 2022]
Post by: chipstern on March 09, 2022, 06:54:26 PM
My Dear Friend RON MILES.  One Of The Greatest Trumpeters & Composers In All Of Modern Music, In Addition To Being The Kindest & Gentlest Of Men--And One Of The Only ActualFactual Christians I Have Encountered In This Veil Of Tears.  He Didn't Talk It, He Walked It. 

(https://cdns-images.dzcdn.net/images/artist/ff360e0a6c64b1df88a196de4c1614ad/500x500.jpg)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuTtoXVu0XQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuTtoXVu0XQ)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXPpeG74qYA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXPpeG74qYA)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hk01FKchZ_I (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hk01FKchZ_I)

(https://www.geneseymour.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/Ron-Miles-album-cover-300x300.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 09, 2022, 07:02:29 PM
Condolences CS
Title: Chip Thibodeau
Post by: carlos123 on March 09, 2022, 10:30:16 PM
Quote from: chipstern on March 08, 2022, 09:01:49 PM
...
Blaming Thibs for THIS? 

No.  He shoulders some of the blame, for sure, but the front office dealt him a really fucked up focus at the PG.  Kemba upended the offensive cohesion, confused RJ & JR as to their roles, and torpedoed the Defense.  Thibs' exiling Kemba was a crappy response, but it had to be killing him. 

No, I'll stick with a C+ for Thibs, while giving the front office a B+ on the draft and a C- on free agency. 

As per Thibs final grade?  Be it C- or D or B-, well, we have 17 games to assess his impact.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLXFnc7ZhRmr65vjqCJ0iTpjuJqlkKTj9Atin_vGmEDJZJJwyqEVAG4KKs4o11mL7UpLd6nf5NUDDU2mYoBuKBJdiXJD8g_DsGzSDSB3wuAvzzln63EMKNHLrn7Q19bGAifcs7Tmpof1mKo5_NOi5H0z=w949-h523-no?authuser=0)

Sorry about your friend Ron Miles, Chip.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 09, 2022, 11:01:58 PM
That is what I am thinking we were all hoping to see this season.

The Mavs really have no front court at all right now. We were ready to take advantage.

Tough one next though. Get ready for a letdown.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 10, 2022, 09:08:15 AM
Evan Fournier: [C+/B-]: The Frenchman has heart, an offensive skill set and character enough to own his failings, but has been plagued by inconsistency.  When locked in, he is a deadly three point sniper, and is surprisingly nimble in going to the hoop, but has had a tendency to fade demonstrably in the fourth as he did against Phoenix, when Thibs inexplicably subbed him back in for Reddish, who was having and excellent run, and EF proceeded to launch a couple of dying quail.  Thibs did NOT repeat that mistake against the Clips and Kings.  While a game defender, it is surely not his forte, and with two guaranteed years remaining at aroughly 18-19 million, it will take some creativity and likely the sacrifice of some assets to explore offloading him.  Likley he remains, but will find himself in more of a sixth man/second team role with the emergence of RJ, Cam and Quentin.  DeMar DeRozan we hardly knew ye.  Rose and WWW made a serious miscalculation in overestimating the value of Kemba, and underestimating the value and leadership of DeMar.

C Stern


Simply....

No.  To all of it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 10, 2022, 10:27:13 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 09, 2022, 11:01:58 PM
That is what I am thinking we were all hoping to see this season.

The Mavs really have no front court at all right now. We were ready to take advantage.

Tough one next though. Get ready for a letdown.

Mavs were 7-2 their last nine before we stormed in.  Our defense was simply suffocatingin the first half.

We can beat any team, any night, with any lineup

And that's coaching.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 10, 2022, 11:27:01 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on March 10, 2022, 10:27:13 AM
Mavs were 7-2 their last nine before we stormed in.  Our defense was simply suffocatingin the first half.

We can beat any team, any night, with any lineup

And that's coaching.

And we can lose to any team, any night, with any lineup.

And that's coaching too. Following your logic, right now 11 out of 15 coaches in the Eastern Conference have coached better than Thibs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 10, 2022, 11:40:12 AM
And that's coaching too.


----


Not always - you surely know better.  What I am speaking to is having your teaam

a)  prepared 
b)  together
c)  confident

Individualy smarts can sometimes wain (doesnt often with us, I dont think) and  shooting skill can come and go.  And honestly luck does also enter the picture.  I think we haave been on the less lucky side this year in several close contests and even some blowouts.  Last yera may have been PEAK lucky - I dont know.  Maybe next year is an in between

Cheers.  Dont give up the ship just yet like Fac.


Title: Mr. heh (and lol) DOES NOT DARE TO STRIKE #1
Post by: carlos123 on March 10, 2022, 01:24:05 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on March 10, 2022, 09:08:15 AM
Evan Fournier: [C+/B-]: The Frenchman has heart, an offensive skill set and character enough to own his failings, but has been plagued by inconsistency.  When locked in, he is a deadly three point sniper, and is surprisingly nimble in going to the hoop, but has had a tendency to fade demonstrably in the fourth as he did against Phoenix, when Thibs inexplicably subbed him back in for Reddish, who was having and excellent run, and EF proceeded to launch a couple of dying quail.  Thibs did NOT repeat that mistake against the Clips and Kings.  While a game defender, it is surely not his forte, and with two guaranteed years remaining at aroughly 18-19 million, it will take some creativity and likely the sacrifice of some assets to explore offloading him.  Likley he remains, but will find himself in more of a sixth man/second team role with the emergence of RJ, Cam and Quentin.  DeMar DeRozan we hardly knew ye.  Rose and WWW made a serious miscalculation in overestimating the value of Kemba, and underestimating the value and leadership of DeMar.

C Stern


Simply....

No.  To all of it.

That is the equivalent of a heh, whithout actually heh-ing.
Title: Chamaco jumps into Chips bandwagon
Post by: carlos123 on March 10, 2022, 01:28:23 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on March 10, 2022, 10:27:13 AM

Mavs were 7-2 their last nine before we stormed in.  Our defense was simply suffocatingin the first half.

We can beat any team, any night, with any lineup

And that's coaching.

Chamaco, if you were hoping for a picture of Thibs saying you were right, you aint gettin it. You just jumped ship right now.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 10, 2022, 01:44:51 PM


Mike Woodson defensive specialist - and shout out of course to Coach Knight)

Indiana down SEVENTEEN to Michigan today and then the swarm came.
Hear on the radiocast - a player got his third foul a minute into second half and implored. Woody to keep him in.

60-43.  Michigan led

Final was Hoosiers 74 Mich 69

Incredible.
Title: Hey, Babbitt
Post by: chipstern on March 10, 2022, 02:57:59 PM
(https://c.tenor.com/lZ-dfG33ZxgAAAAM/abbott-and-costello-lou-abbott.gif)

https://nypost.com/2022/03/10/ashli-babbitts-half-brother-accused-of-racist-rant-at-utility-worker/ (https://nypost.com/2022/03/10/ashli-babbitts-half-brother-accused-of-racist-rant-at-utility-worker/)

(https://c.tenor.com/62Ft7GkBTfUAAAAM/abbott-and-costello-worried.gif)



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 11, 2022, 10:30:11 AM
Be better, CS.

Whatever you feel politically , this is a US veteran who sadly lost her life. 

And I have enough respect for your mind to KNOW you feel the entire day was handled poorly by Pelosi and whoever else had a hand in decisions on  Capitol police and Guard presence/non presence that day
Title: Pelosi, lol, she got a long-term rent-free lease on your soul.
Post by: lesterluv on March 11, 2022, 12:46:40 PM
Nice try, when the President himself is trying to overthrow the government ya' can't put the blame on nobody else. Pelosi..lol, back into your hole!

Ain't nothing sad about racist scum losing their lives. For the ones who weren't racist scum just low IQ or poorly inclined, well, blame it on the Donald, don't even think about trying to point elsewhere.

Meanwhile, to complete a completely non-basketball post, this &^%ish is not ending well, at all.

Hong Kongs Death Rate Is Now World Highest: Virus Update
https://www.yahoo.com/now/china-cases-surge-australian-gold-041536135.html (https://www.yahoo.com/now/china-cases-surge-australian-gold-041536135.html)
China locks down city of 9 million amid new spike in cases
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/china-locks-city-million-amid-spike-cases-83384360 (https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/china-locks-city-million-amid-spike-cases-83384360)
Students trapped in quarantine beg for help online as China faces biggest Covid outbreak since 2020
https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/11/china/china-covid-jilin-university-mic-intl-hnk/index.html (https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/11/china/china-covid-jilin-university-mic-intl-hnk/index.html)
etc etc etc etc
https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-battles-nationwide-surge-in-covid-19-cases-11647013650 (https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-battles-nationwide-surge-in-covid-19-cases-11647013650)

Nonetheless, I firmly believe Little Mao Zizzley will rejoin this forum once he is no longer inconvenienced by his police app and sequestration.
Title: Melania Cartero 🧏‍♀️
Post by: carlos123 on March 11, 2022, 02:45:27 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on March 11, 2022, 10:30:11 AM
Be better Best, CS.  🧏‍♀️

Fixed.

Chamaco, please do not EVER leave this forum, like your friend BoZizzley, AKA Mao Zizzley. You just provide sooooooooo much fun.

- Rest in peace, Matthew  Perna - Chamaco Cartero

posse of frothing white supremacists. Les, my good doggie 🐶
Krackers gonna Kroak. You play, you pay. Les, my good doggie 🐶
A QAnon bully boy who Grump played like 10 cent Kazoo. Chip Stern
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 12, 2022, 11:11:25 AM
Good effort from the boys last night.


Morant made a play that had to be top 5 for me in the last ten years.  If  you didnt see it (I will try to find a link), he skies frm left side for a too-high alley opp pass - almost flushes it anyway, then scrambles for the rebound ahead of 3 Knicks, drives and lays off a sweet behind the back dish for a deuce.  5 seconds of insane level athleticism/basketball smarts and  unselfish leadership.

And of course Ja soared in the end to lead his mates - erasing 99-92 deficit with the final 26-15 Grizzlies run.  (Julius had a chance to hit 2 free throws and get us back up 9 but missed both - still a real good outing for Randle)

The complete Ja kit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNP-GCrtA7g

(play I referenced is at 2:45)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 12, 2022, 02:48:46 PM
Yeah, a real good one for three quarters. Impressive coaching and playing.
Not unexpected to run out of gas for the last 12 minutes of the road trip.

That said, it ended in pure regression.

A lazy, contested and completely expected Randall clanker from three becoming a Grizzly break, the momentum-killing turning point after our lead reached its apex.

Repetitive isos and futile forays into the extremely well-protected lane as the lead disappeared.

Fournier on the bench as all this occurred, after a fine game, and we needed that shooting.

Nonetheless, we are who we are and that's better than who we were a few weeks ago.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 12, 2022, 03:12:34 PM
Future Knickerbocker KEEGAN MURRAY with 32 as Iowa comes back on Indiana - down 9 with under 5 to play - Murray, his brother Chris and mates head to the Big Ten final 80-77.  Congrats Coach Fran McCaffrey - and great job, losing coach (today) Mike Woodson - your guys play HARD, man.  Unfortunate to lose on a heave 3 ball.
Title: Normal as Fickety Fackety Foockity Fuk!!!
Post by: lesterluv on March 12, 2022, 04:42:08 PM
Here in Brooklyn, at least we used mobile refrigeration trailers. This aint right, yo!

Hong Kongs overwhelmed hospitals are keeping the dead in wards with Covid patients.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/11/world/asia/hong-kong-hospitals-covid.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/11/world/asia/hong-kong-hospitals-covid.html)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FNj9-LFWUAQWrgF?format=jpg&name=900x900)



今天病房有点拥挤。 带来不便敬请谅解。 我可以接受你的午餐订单吗？
Title: BoZ still missing
Post by: carlos123 on March 12, 2022, 07:03:20 PM
Hey Les, BoZizzley, AKA Mao Zizzley, is still missing. He aint gonna see your post. Well, he would not see it anyway, it is probably bocked in China by now.

Maybe you should send your friends in Zach-s Posse on a rescue mission to liberate BoZ.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 12, 2022, 07:23:25 PM
Good idea, save Bo before his unvaxxed a$$ ends up in one of those bodybags.
Sadly, Z and the posse are already on a humanitarian mission assisting in the defense of Kyiv. Grit and grind.

(https://preview.redd.it/vnclucb5v6281.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=482ed98abf40eb4791243cb38b8c28fd7cb0d78f)
Fine viewing:

#50ForDaCity | Zach Randolph Documentary https://youtu.be/SPRpYqWooaA?t=4030 (https://youtu.be/SPRpYqWooaA?t=4030)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 13, 2022, 03:02:50 PM
OBI, baby!

But too much Durant
Title: Sigh
Post by: chipstern on March 13, 2022, 03:31:16 PM
SIGH
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 13, 2022, 03:43:15 PM
Man, that last sequence.

How can Barrett bring the ball up and NOT know he's gotta throw up a 3 as soon as he can?
IQ would have been much better in that situation.

And then he made both of the fouls?? Just painful.

At least with Fournier's fuck up, the idea was good. That play had Robinson all alone under the basket.

Anyhow, yeah, the Knicks can't quite figure out how to win these games.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 13, 2022, 03:44:51 PM
I did think Simms played great. The way he ran out to double Durant play after play, and then streak back to play D and get a rebound. Strong active energy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 13, 2022, 04:59:10 PM
Quote from: elephant on March 13, 2022, 03:43:15 PM
Man, that last sequence.

How can Barrett bring the ball up and NOT know he's gotta throw up a 3 as soon as he can?
IQ would have been much better in that situation.

And then he made both of the fouls?? Just painful.


lol, that painful sequence was only the next-to-last. The actual last sequence was equally mind-numbing. 1.8 left and he tries to toss the ball to a player INSIDE the three point arc. We are way too stupid for the play in. Bring the lotto!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 13, 2022, 05:16:29 PM
I don
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 13, 2022, 05:29:23 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 13, 2022, 05:16:29 PM
I don

Remember the rule, lol, no apostrophes allowed!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 13, 2022, 06:13:34 PM
Crap!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 13, 2022, 06:47:17 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on March 13, 2022, 04:59:10 PM
Quote from: elephant on March 13, 2022, 03:43:15 PM
Man, that last sequence.

How can Barrett bring the ball up and NOT know he's gotta throw up a 3 as soon as he can?
IQ would have been much better in that situation.

And then he made both of the fouls?? Just painful.


lol, that painful sequence was only the next-to-last. The actual last sequence was equally mind-numbing. 1.8 left and he tries to toss the ball to a player INSIDE the three point arc. We are way too stupid for the play in. Bring the lotto!

But  a good team, with some offseason tweaks.

Hit the HR if you can this summer but take the 2-bagger

Fo now how about some Arcidiacano?  Miles is efforting on D but not much else.  Needs time.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 13, 2022, 06:50:43 PM
Please - get this guy in camp:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamaal_Franklin

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 13, 2022, 08:20:28 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on March 13, 2022, 04:59:10 PM
Quote from: elephant on March 13, 2022, 03:43:15 PM
Man, that last sequence.

How can Barrett bring the ball up and NOT know he's gotta throw up a 3 as soon as he can?
IQ would have been much better in that situation.

And then he made both of the fouls?? Just painful.


lol, that painful sequence was only the next-to-last. The actual last sequence was equally mind-numbing. 1.8 left and he tries to toss the ball to a player INSIDE the three point arc. We are way too stupid for the play in. Bring the lotto!

Well, maybe....maybe...with so little clock, it's one of those plays where you heave it down, and then the player immediately taps the ball to a teammate for a three.

But, yeah, I wouldn't put a wager on that.
Title: Closing Out
Post by: chipstern on March 13, 2022, 09:30:10 PM
Hey, we couldn't execute in the final frames, but I thought we played a really tough, competitive game. 

Like so many games that have slipped away as on a stray banana peel, it was winnable, and we played well enough to win...but.  THAT's what a point guard is there for. 

Even if Rose comes back, he is going to be rusty, but hey, Knicks haven't given up, on themselves, the season, or Coach Thibs. 

A little late in the season, but our bell cow Julius sure has come around, simplifying his game, more decisive and zeroing in on his mid and long jumpers, though not settling so much. 

Something I think Doris Burke pointed out, which is part of our problem offensively, besides being so methodical, and she was using The GOD Durant as Exhibit A, which is...and I am paraphrasing...

"If you give the ball up, once, twice, you are going to get it back, and for a better shot."

This is a faux pas which JR inevitably makes in crunch time.  If we were to follow this dicitum, and add some cutters and movement, we could get better shots. 

As for everyone here playing a chorus of oh woe is me, it was a gritty competitive game, and we lost by a basket. 

ON The +/- Side, our leaders were:

Sims, a +20 [6-10-2-1] in 23 minutes. 

McBride, a +13 [2 assists] in 11 minutes.

Obi, a +7 [8-4] in 8 minutes.

And as a team, we were 18-21 from the FT line. 

So, all might be lost, but are building something for the future. 

I mean, Dallas beat the Celtics in Boston, and we destroyed them on their home floor, for fuck's sake. 

(https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1284038384979037525/E62E3762FB9DCC22270A6DA6473817A147DC497B/?imw=506&&ima=fit&impolicy=Letterbox&imcolor=%23000000&letterbox=false)

So, yes, TO BE A KNICKS FAN IS TO SUFFER.  But it ain't grasping for straws to accept whatsoever scraps from the table fall our way.  We are competing, with some significant contributors MIA, due to injuries, right?  Rose, Noel, Reddish, Grimes. 

Title: Re: Closing Out
Post by: carlos123 on March 14, 2022, 04:03:31 PM
Quote from: chipstern on March 13, 2022, 09:30:10 PM

Even if Rose comes back, he is going to be rusty, but hey, Knicks haven't given up, on themselves, the season, or Coach Thibs. 


That is your position (and Chamaco is on your bandwagon too).

Not everybody is happy with coach Thibs. Just sayin...
Title: Re: Closing Out
Post by: chipstern on March 14, 2022, 06:58:53 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on March 14, 2022, 04:03:31 PM
Quote from: chipstern on March 13, 2022, 09:30:10 PM

Even if Rose comes back, he is going to be rusty, but hey, Knicks haven't given up, on themselves, the season, or Coach Thibs. 


That is your position (and Chamaco is on your bandwagon too).

Not everybody is happy with coach Thibs. Just sayin...

I feel you.

Don't think a pink slip is the answer.

Maybe an offensive coordinator.

And Jokubaitis.

I would like more motion and cutters, more pace.

The camp out in the corners and watch sets not a tenable fourth quarter scheme.
Title: Re: Closing Out
Post by: carlos123 on March 14, 2022, 08:21:56 PM
Quote from: chipstern on March 14, 2022, 06:58:53 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on March 14, 2022, 04:03:31 PM
Quote from: chipstern on March 13, 2022, 09:30:10 PM

Even if Rose comes back, he is going to be rusty, but hey, Knicks haven't given up, on themselves, the season, or Coach Thibs. 


That is your position (and Chamaco is on your bandwagon too).

Not everybody is happy with coach Thibs. Just sayin...

I feel you.

Don't think a pink slip is the answer.

Maybe an offensive coordinator.

And Jokubaitis.

I would like more motion and cutters, more pace.

The camp out in the corners and watch sets not a tenable fourth quarter scheme.

And how about minute allocation? Our guys are always tired in the 4Q.

If you dont want to give him the pink slip, maybe he should be made defensive coordinator or something under somebody who can efficiently run a team.
Title: Normal as Feek Fok!
Post by: lesterluv on March 15, 2022, 01:39:58 PM
Who will tell the children that their hamsters died in vain?

(https://scontent-lga3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.18169-9/198387_422944821059578_2083512767_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=e3f864&_nc_ohc=5XNbQ6K0FUgAX8jJAeX&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-2.xx&oh=00_AT9DY7XI71F77LOcY3QT4P2qPdvj9orrU1uEgChDNMNKUQ&oe=6257D42F)

China locks down 45 million more people!
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-03-15/china-reports-over-5-000-covid-cases-as-more-cities-locked-down (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-03-15/china-reports-over-5-000-covid-cases-as-more-cities-locked-down)

I think Bo might be stuck up in here, lol!
Shanghai seals off tallest skyscraper in China
https://www.scmp.com/business/china-business/article/3170580/shanghai-seals-chinas-tallest-skyscraper-screen-covid-19 (https://www.scmp.com/business/china-business/article/3170580/shanghai-seals-chinas-tallest-skyscraper-screen-covid-19)


不便越来越不方便！
Title: Re: Normal as Feek Fok!
Post by: carlos123 on March 15, 2022, 10:16:55 PM
Quote from: Les on March 15, 2022, 01:39:58 PM

不便越来越不方便！

Translation, please, my doggie 🐶

Something like Feek Fok?

Or fuckity fuk?
Title: Kyrie...60
Post by: chipstern on March 16, 2022, 11:40:34 AM
Well Now
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 16, 2022, 01:22:55 PM
Bad ass m'fer for sure...I'm thinking he's pretty happy w/the current situation. Places him at the epicenter of the flat earth. Only has to play ball once in a while. Can roast as much sage as he likes on the days off.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 16, 2022, 01:32:14 PM
Pretty sad, really,  telling you this from the epicenter of Brooklyn, spitting distance to Barclays, nobody gives a fuck about the Nets, at all. Tickets available for a song any game. Zero resonance. Zero established fan base. Could be worse, tho, at least no longer owned by that Russian oligarch....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 16, 2022, 10:06:27 PM
That was a fun little scrimmage. Unfortunately it counts as a win.

I really like the Kids and all but one vet, though he shot well from outside and that has value.

Imagine if we worked these lineups from day one
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 17, 2022, 11:33:24 AM
Imagine......
Title: Am I To Gather?
Post by: chipstern on March 17, 2022, 03:13:33 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 16, 2022, 10:06:27 PM
That was a fun little scrimmage. Unfortunately it counts as a win.

I really like the Kids and all but one vet, though he shot well from outside and that has value.

Imagine if we worked these lineups from day one

Are we in tank mode? 

Seems to ME that we are playing for 2022-23. 

As well as 2021-22.

Randle +24 [20-9-7]
RJ +22 [31-4-5]
Sims +21

Yes, it is damn near impossible for us to make up 5-1/2 games with 13 to go.

And I don't to go all weepy on y'all, but closing out on a positive note is very important both for next season and the offseason. 

Stranger things have happenned. 

I would reference the Spree-Houston-Camby-LJ Knicks' run to the 8th seed and eventually the playoffs. 

Or Gene Mauch's 1964 Phillies.  Up 6 with 12 to play 50 years ago, the Phillies were a shoo-in to reach the World Series--until they weren't.

PS: It would appear that World Wide Wes and Don Carlos have been overruled by Neon Leon.  We shall see. 

PPS: Let the masturbatory fantasies begin.  Karl Anthony Towns.  Donovan Mitchell?  Tell me about the rabbits, George.

PPPS: If our front office's offseason left something to be desired, consider that of the Lakers, smug as a motherfucker, didn't want to give DeRozan three years, and went for Westbrook instead.  Frustrated?  Did you see LeBron spike the ball into Scottie "Rookie Of The Year" Barnes' face on an out of bounds play.  What did they give up for Russ.  A pair of #2 picks, the #22 in last year's draft, Kuzma, Harrell, Pope.

Giggle Alert: FILE THIS UNDER MASTURBATORY PHANTASIES

NBA Analysis Network

Los Angeles Lakers Receive: G Derrick Rose, G/F Evan Fournier, G/F Alec Burks
New York Knicks Receive: G Russell Westbrook, LAL 2027 1st Round Pick (Unprotected)

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 17, 2022, 03:51:26 PM
Lets not do that.

Grimes did a full practice. We should see him back soon.
Title: R. I. Mf'n P.!
Post by: lesterluv on March 17, 2022, 03:52:35 PM
https://ny.eater.com/2022/3/17/22983154/domenico-dom-demarco-di-fara-pizza-dies-obituary (https://ny.eater.com/2022/3/17/22983154/domenico-dom-demarco-di-fara-pizza-dies-obituary)

(https://blankslatepages.s3.amazonaws.com/5523ee5c783eb-web_DiFara-9.jpg)

In the 20 years after the Voice and the Times outd him, I couldnt do the wait more than once or twice  a year. Would drive by now and then on a mid-week rainy day to see if the lines were short and I could sneak out with a pie in under an hour. Each one still treasured in memory.



这个人在天堂，保证
Title: Chemistry
Post by: chipstern on March 17, 2022, 03:58:52 PM
D-Rose went down and took our season with him.

Poor Nerlens was a train wreck. 

Kemba, whose signing I was surely enthusiastic about, truth be told, torpedoed our chemistry so conclusively, that Thibs freaked and literally nailed him to the pine until he ran out of bodies.
As per NEON LEON, please nothe, that ere in the wake of the Celtics' 42-28 ascension, it is worth noting that GM Brad Stevens wrote off Evan Fournier, and was willing to give the Thunder a 2021 #1 pick as a sweetner to offload Kemba and bring back Al Horford.

Stretch 4 Two-Way Signing Luka Samanic looked like a burgeoning talent in Westchester, but hurt his heel and has played to my knowledge, on game in 2022.  SIGH. 

Evan's game last night was hopeful on a number of fronts, no doubt teasing Facil's trade barometer, as he shot well, actually defended, and had what, 2 steals and 6 assists. 

Burks has been a gamer, doing what was asked, even though mis-cast as a PG. 

Where NEON LEON excelled, was in the draft, where Quentin Grimes, Miles McBride and Jericho Sims are all keepers, though it remains to be seen what their ceiling is, and Jokubaitis remains a tantalizing X-Factor. 

Oh, and no moves at the trade deadline?  Kevin Knox and the provisional #1 from Charlotte for Cam Reddish was looking pretty damn good--and still is--when the kid went down.  I am looking for Cam & RJ to be a signficant tandem [and hopefully poor Kevin goes to a team this summer where he actually gets off the pine.]

CHEMISTRY? 

Performance wise, the Burks/Bullock over/under seems to be a wash.  Reggie has had an up and down year for the Mavs, dealing with his share of injuries. 

CHEMISTRY?  Thibs leaned hard on Reggie, and he was apparently Julius' best bro on the team.
 
CHEMISTRY?

Oddly enough I would nominate THEO PINSON as a signficiant loss. 

Okay, I hear you.  OUR EXPERIENCE of Theo was when he came in around garbage time, and bricked a trey [0-8 for the season]. 

Oddly enough, Theo also ended up with Dallas, where his invisible influence counts for something, little as it may be, but he is for them, what he was for us, a glue guy, a practice player, a locker room/bench jockey, a positive influence who keeps everyone loose and laughing, something of a coach on the bench. 

Anyway, would I rather have Jericho Sims, or for that matter, Ryan Arcidiacono?  The mirage known as Luka Samanic?  Sure. 

But when charting the inconsistencies and palpable chemistry issues our Knicks and their coach jousted with all season long, well, there is more between heaven and earth than is accounted
for in boxscores, Horatio. 

To Be A Knicks Fan Is To Suffer

ONWARDS
Title: Re: R. I. Mf'n P.!
Post by: chipstern on March 17, 2022, 04:02:09 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on March 17, 2022, 03:52:35 PM
https://ny.eater.com/2022/3/17/22983154/domenico-dom-demarco-di-fara-pizza-dies-obituary (https://ny.eater.com/2022/3/17/22983154/domenico-dom-demarco-di-fara-pizza-dies-obituary)

(https://blankslatepages.s3.amazonaws.com/5523ee5c783eb-web_DiFara-9.jpg)

In the 20 years after the Voice and the Times outd him, I couldnt do the wait more than once or twice  a year. Would drive by now and then on a mid-week rainy day to see if the lines were short and I could sneak out with a pie in under an hour. Each one still treasured in memory.



这个人在天堂，保证

Sal & Carmine's

Upper West Side since 1959.

(http://pizzahalloffame.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/SalCarmines-4.jpg)

Broadway between 101st & 102nd.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 17, 2022, 04:08:52 PM
Might have to run up there and drown my sorrows.....
Title: Trader Vic Has Spoken
Post by: chipstern on March 17, 2022, 04:16:30 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 17, 2022, 03:51:26 PM
Lets not do that.

Grimes did a full practice. We should see him back soon.

The persistent beating of the jungle drums says we make a run after DONOVAN MITCHELL.  I am not sure I buy into the HE WANTS TO BE A KNICK NARRATIVE. 

How does this sound to you, FACIL. 

Fournier
Toppin-OR-Reddish
2022 #1
2023 #1 [Dallas Pick]

Would I do it? 

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....that's a tough one...

Not sure. 

Still, any trade realistically, would have to include a couple of #1 picks, and at least one of our Plum Pups. 

Me? 

I would look to get Jokubaitis here, keep developing Quick, McBride and Grimes, and look to the draft.  One more year of Rose as a mentor, ankle willing.  We miss his leadership, on and off the floor. 

But then, as is well known, I'm a rose-colored glasses blaring schmuck. 

Though arguably as big a schmuck as World Wide Wes? 

Stay tuned. 
Title: Two Luka Down, None To Go
Post by: chipstern on March 17, 2022, 04:19:29 PM
THIS JUST IN

The New York Knicks have agreed to sign Feron Hunt to a Two-Way contract.

Hunt is averaging 18.3 points, 7.8 rebounds and 2.3 assists in 35.4 minutes over 27 games this season for the Texas Legends of the G League.

In a related move, the Knicks will waive Luka Samanic from his Two-Way.
Title: FERON HUNT?
Post by: chipstern on March 17, 2022, 04:24:19 PM
Quote from: chipstern on March 17, 2022, 04:19:29 PM
THIS JUST IN

The New York Knicks have agreed to sign Feron Hunt to a Two-Way contract.

Hunt is averaging 18.3 points, 7.8 rebounds and 2.3 assists in 35.4 minutes over 27 games this season for the Texas Legends of the G League.

In a related move, the Knicks will waive Luka Samanic from his Two-Way.

Feron Hunt (born July 5, 1999) is a 6'8" forward for the Texas Legends. He played college basketball at Southern Methodist.

18.3 ppg
5.4 boards
2.4 assists
.739 FT%
.371 3PF%

(https://miro.medium.com/max/768/0*Mjm2TFvG3TcLdySt)

Wonder if we see any of him in the final 13 games. 
Title: DiFara
Post by: chipstern on March 17, 2022, 04:32:52 PM
I made the journey to 18th Street once.

My wait was over 3 hours.  He literally made the dough by hand one pizza at a time, which meant you had to wait for the yeast to rise?  DUH?  Ever hear of Henry Ford? 

Good pizza, but best in the city? 

Sal & Carmine's on Broadway a block down from the 103rd Street stop on the #1 train. 

Lombardi's on the corner of Mott & Spring in SOHO.

Totonno's on Neptune Avenue in South Brooklyn.

No. 

PS: You can get slices from Sal & Carmine's [BangBANGBang] and Sal's grandson Luciano has kept the tradition alive and well.  They were on 95th and Broadway [the Symphony Space] for many years, in biz 1959.  My daughter, went to elementary school on 95th and West End, so, she was down with the trad.  When she moved to San Diego, as a 20 year old, in 1994, when she came home to visit, we would pack up THREE S&C's pizzas in her luggage to take back home. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 17, 2022, 04:45:32 PM
When Dom was on, I've never had better. Smacked Totonno's & Lombardi's very worthy pies.

Haven't had Sal & Carmine's in many years, but gonna rectify that.

F&F in Carroll Gardens can make ya pretty happy.

Buncha good ones around for long suffering Knick fans to munch on as we continue our journey through pain.
Title: Re: Trader Vic Has Spoken
Post by: elephant on March 17, 2022, 05:50:36 PM
Quote from: chipstern on March 17, 2022, 04:16:30 PM

The persistent beating of the jungle drums says we make a run after DONOVAN MITCHELL.  I am not sure I buy into the HE WANTS TO BE A KNICK NARRATIVE.

How does this sound to you, FACIL. 

Fournier
Toppin-OR-Reddish
2022 #1
2023 #1 [Dallas Pick]

Would I do it? 

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....that's a tough one...


You gotta be kidding.

In a heartbeat, you do that.
Title: Re: Trader Vic Has Spoken
Post by: chipstern on March 17, 2022, 05:52:58 PM
Quote from: elephant on March 17, 2022, 05:50:36 PM
Quote from: chipstern on March 17, 2022, 04:16:30 PM

How does this sound to you, FACIL. 

Fournier
Toppin-OR-Reddish
2022 #1
2023 #1 [Dallas Pick]

Would I do it? 

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....that's a tough one...


You gotta be kidding.

In a heartbeat, you do that.

Which would seem to suggest that the Jazz will exact a much heavier price. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 17, 2022, 05:53:24 PM
Yep.
Title: Meanwhile
Post by: chipstern on March 17, 2022, 05:55:25 PM
Rose did not practice today.

Quentin Grimes a full practice. 
Title: UnLuckyLukaSam-a-Knick
Post by: chipstern on March 17, 2022, 09:27:35 PM
Plantar fasciitis is most commonly caused by repetitive strain injury to the ligament of the sole of the foot. Such strain injury can be from excessive running or walking, inadequate foot gear, and jumping injury from landing.

I seem to recall Glenn Rice in 2000-2001, during his once season as a Knick, was afflicted with this, yet still managed to play 29.5 minutes a game for 75 contests. 

Luca Vildoza? 

Two days after the Knicks waived him, Vildoza had surgery on his right foot.  No evidence I can find that he played this year. 
Title: Re: Meanwhile
Post by: elephant on March 17, 2022, 10:08:33 PM
Quote from: chipstern on March 17, 2022, 05:55:25 PM
Rose did not practice today.

Quentin Grimes a full practice.

I hadn't realized we'll be seeing Grimes again this year. That's great to hear.
Title: All I Did Was Mention Coach Thibs
Post by: chipstern on March 17, 2022, 10:15:21 PM
(https://scontent-lga3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/276117655_10219860637042955_8861662452938521777_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=F40jrPUvYggAX_it3Sp&tn=xl05267qLY6AVrGm&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-2.xx&oh=00_AT9-9wETnIxjQDE4Spgh2NKCDv4UEkAS6-g2Z-aRXwWbgA&oe=62387D54)
Title: Re: All I Did Was Mention Coach Thibs
Post by: carlos123 on March 18, 2022, 12:15:17 AM
Quote from: chipstern on March 17, 2022, 10:15:21 PM
(https://scontent-lga3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/276117655_10219860637042955_8861662452938521777_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=F40jrPUvYggAX_it3Sp&tn=xl05267qLY6AVrGm&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-2.xx&oh=00_AT9-9wETnIxjQDE4Spgh2NKCDv4UEkAS6-g2Z-aRXwWbgA&oe=62387D54)

(https://images.pond5.com/brown-guy-dog-barking-evil-footage-098484227_iconl.jpeg)
Poor girl!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 18, 2022, 07:42:49 PM
Lovely, Chip. Thanks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 19, 2022, 09:25:59 AM
Jalen Smith 17 and 10 in 13 minutes

Yankguy doesnt like him
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 19, 2022, 09:30:37 AM
Knicks shoot 34/30/77 and win the game

Thibs vision all along - to have that potential.   

5 BACK OF 2 TEAMS, 12 TO PLAY
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 19, 2022, 11:38:31 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on March 19, 2022, 09:30:37 AM
Knicks shoot 34/30/77 and win the game

Thibs vision all along - to have that potential.   

5 BACK OF 2 TEAMS, 12 TO PLAY

Thibs had a vision all along:

One day we will beat a lotto team,

Playing without its superstar,

And win,

despite two chucklehead chuckers going 12-44!

And despite muffing a 15 point lead with 4 to go!


我真的希望他的梦想更大


Title: Translation please
Post by: carlos123 on March 19, 2022, 07:36:46 PM
Les, could you please translate. I cannot read or understand Mandarin or whatever it is, but at the same time do not want to miss any bit of wisdom from my doggie 🐶
At the same time, your friend BoZ is missing in action, so I bet nobody on this forum knows what you are putting out there.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on March 20, 2022, 01:13:08 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on March 19, 2022, 11:38:31 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on March 19, 2022, 09:30:37 AM
Knicks shoot 34/30/77 and win the game

Thibs vision all along - to have that potential.   

5 BACK OF 2 TEAMS, 12 TO PLAY

Thibs had a vision all along:

One day we will beat a lotto team,

Playing without its superstar,

And win,

despite two chucklehead chuckers going 12-44!

And despite muffing a 15 point lead with 4 to go!


我真的希望他的梦想更大

I look forward to your learned spin on how the Wizards whupped LeBron and the Lakers this evening.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 20, 2022, 09:27:29 AM
Satoransky

6-6 in 26 minutes

16 points
6 assists
3rebounds
2 steals
0 turnovers

KP was nice to us, waited a night - netting 27.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 20, 2022, 02:41:39 PM
Free from Kemba, we are starting to defend like a Thibs team.
Title: Kemba
Post by: chipstern on March 20, 2022, 05:14:52 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 20, 2022, 02:41:39 PM
Free from Kemba, we are starting to defend like a Thibs team.

True. 

Still, more than just defense. 

Kemba had a tendency to dominate the ball, offensively. 

RJ and Evan had a tendency to kind of camp out in the corners when Kemba was pounding the ball.  And Julius was out of rhythm. 

Now, RJ is initiating the offense, by going into attack mode, and drawing defenders going to the paint.  It has resulted in him being way more in rhythm as a scorer. 

Likewise, Evan getting better looks in rhythm via kick outs from RJ and Julius, and nice screens.  And Evan is also initiating offense by attacking the rim.  How many assists did he have against the Wiz? 

And Julius, while still hit or miss from three, has been playing more muscle ball, which draws defenders, and can create kick out opportunities [and turnovers]. 

Another consequence of deleting Kemba, and our reliance on long threes and a camp out offense, is that because we are attacking the pain, we are getting a lot more rebounds. 

We outrebounded the Wiz by an astounding amount, like 60-35 or something in that neighborhood. 

Julius is being tasked less with initiating the offense, and more with drawing defenders and getting Annette Funicello's attention with his Muscle Beach Party. 

Damn shame Cam Reddish got hurt.  He was on a postive arc, and the current attack mode suited his game. 

Still, Grimes came back, and McBride got some burn. 

Anyway, a very serious test this evening.  Gobert and Mitchell typically kill us. 

Would like to see more offensive efficiency from RJ and JR.  As hot as Fournier has been, they don't need to be taking 40+shots.  Spread it around. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 20, 2022, 08:29:47 PM
Fucking bench has played 30 combined minutes and has 4 points
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 20, 2022, 09:56:19 PM
Jazz have some nice players.

Jules needs a John Lucas or someone like that to help him grow a basketball head.
Title: Re: Kemba
Post by: lesterluv on March 20, 2022, 11:56:46 PM
Quote from: chipstern on March 20, 2022, 05:14:52 PM

Gobert and Mitchell typically kill us. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 21, 2022, 12:11:31 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 20, 2022, 09:56:19 PM
Jazz have some nice players.

Jules needs a John Lucas or someone like that to help him grow a basketball head.

Jules needs to be traded to another team.

**** like I said before the trade deadline, give me a second round pick, whatever, we will call it square.

失败者欺负假硬汉
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 21, 2022, 10:00:26 AM
Jules needs to be traded to another team.


Agree.

But that alone doesnt make us better.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 21, 2022, 11:28:04 AM
What does it look like when Randle is the #1 go-to guy? We see that again and again.

And we don't want to see it anymore.

I do wonder what Randle would look like if he was paired with a great veteran point guard who directed the offense.

We're probably not going to see that on the Knicks, but it would be worth checking out if it ever arises elsewhere.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 21, 2022, 01:56:13 PM
I do wonder what Randle would look like if he was paired with a great veteran point guard who directed the offense.



Not sure how that would help him make a bunny layup, down 5 in last 2 minutes
Title: Thibs Blew It
Post by: chipstern on March 21, 2022, 02:47:27 PM
Our Puppies' scrappy energy and defensegot us back in the game.

And Thibs reflexively subbed out Randle and Burks, just as he did with Reddish weeks ago.  Thought he had learned his lesson.

Not.

I'm not ready to cash out Julius but ALL PLAYERS MUST BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE.

PS: As much of a flamethrower as Fournier was in the first quarter, how many touches did he get thereafter?  Riddle me that Thibs. 
Title: Re: Thibs Blew It
Post by: lesterluv on March 21, 2022, 03:11:35 PM
Quote from: chipstern on March 21, 2022, 02:47:27 PM

PS: As much of a flamethrower as Fournier was in the first quarter, how many touches did he get thereafter?  Riddle me that Thibs.

Chip, why would you want to have a guy who can actually shoot the ball shoot the ball? What kind of hoops is that?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 21, 2022, 03:13:19 PM
PS As much of a flamethrower as Fournier was in the first quarter, how many touches did he get thereafter? Riddle me that Thibs.


Defensive adjustment?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 21, 2022, 03:41:51 PM
Part of it surely, but....

Equally much the usual number of dribble down, pure iso or one pass-and-done possessions without so much as a thought to swing-it-round to Frenchie.

I mean opposing defenses sometimes change, but our offense never does.

Got to have 6 for 22 or 7 for 24 in the box whenever possible, as many as possible!

Why look for a shooter when you can get your $%^ blocked or stolen by one player or preferably, three players at once.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on March 21, 2022, 05:21:45 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on March 21, 2022, 03:41:51 PM
Part of it surely, but....

Equally much the usual number of dribble down, pure iso or one pass-and-done possessions without so much as a thought to swing-it-round to Frenchie.

I mean opposing defenses sometimes change, but our offense never does.

Got to have 6 for 22 or 7 for 24 in the box whenever possible, as many as possible!

Why look for a shooter when you can get your $%^ blocked or stolen by one player or preferably, three players at once.

Sigh.

PS: Fournier has been playing D.  Had a couple of steals and is a willing passer.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 21, 2022, 06:26:34 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on March 21, 2022, 01:56:13 PM
I do wonder what Randle would look like if he was paired with a great veteran point guard who directed the offense.



Not sure how that would help him make a bunny layup, down 5 in last 2 minutes

He's a great and rugged talent. But the dude needs guidance. Everyone can see that now and it's been clear long before this. And just as clear, he ain't getting that from his coach.

Hence, the notion, however naive, that he would be helped by a strong, veteran point guard, a team leader unafraid to call out Julius when need be.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 21, 2022, 06:31:29 PM
Randle can be "helpped"by quite a few things.

And a better PG helps not only Julius but everyone

So your point...it aint a point at all.

Do we deal him?  Our to dawg?  Always a tough question.

I think it deends on who offfers what. Certanly wait for calls rather than outwardly shopping Julius - and see what is dangled in front of us.

Draft day or just prior is of course the best time to strike with this.
Title: Dawg POUND[ing]
Post by: chipstern on March 21, 2022, 09:49:50 PM
Guess who has a herniated disc in his back.

Hint

Can sometimes be seen in attendance at the Barclay's Center.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 21, 2022, 10:07:08 PM
Let's go!!!!!!

https://www.nba.com/game/lal-vs-cle-0022101072/box-score#box-score

Bitches.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 21, 2022, 10:38:47 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on March 21, 2022, 06:31:29 PM
Randle can be "helpped"by quite a few things.

An a betterPG help not only Julius but everyone

So your oint...it aint a point at all.

Do we deal him?  Our to dawg?  Always a tough question.

I think it deends on who offfers what. Certanly wait for calls rather than outwardly shopping Julius - and see what is dangled in front of us.

Draft day or just prior is of course the best time to strike with this.

The point is simple enough for a child.

Pay attention.

You deal him.

(Unless you can find a player or a system that can put him in a distinctly different zone.)

(But this experiment? As is? It's over. It's played out. It's not working and it's not going to work.)
Title: Re: Dawg POUND[ing]
Post by: carlos123 on March 21, 2022, 10:55:36 PM
Quote from: chipstern on March 21, 2022, 09:49:50 PM
Guess who has a herniated disc in his back.

Hint

Can sometimes be seen in attendance at the Barclay's Center.

It seems that KD is enough to win by himself. Ok, with other random guys no matter who they are on a given game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 22, 2022, 01:01:19 PM
No Julius against the Hawks.
We'll see how that goes after all our complaining ).
The first go round without Mr. Grumpy, back over Christmas, didn't go so well.
I suspect & hope this one will be better.
I hope we'll see lots of Toppin. I suspect we'll see lots of Taj.
Title: Feron Hunt
Post by: chipstern on March 22, 2022, 02:25:35 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on March 22, 2022, 01:01:19 PM
No Julius against the Hawks.
We'll see how that goes after all our complaining ).
The first go round without Mr. Grumpy, back over Christmas, didn't go so well.
I suspect & hope this one will be better.
I hope we'll see lots of Toppin. I suspect we'll see lots of Taj.

Don't forget that we just signed 6'8" Forward Feron Hunt to a two year/two way contract. 

More of a SF from what I can see.  But there is always small ball. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAaQjSTjSPo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAaQjSTjSPo)

As for Obi?

Maybe Thibs should consider starting IQ at point, as his chemistry with Obi is demonstrably stronger than that of Burks, let alone that they play at a similar pace & tempo. 

Too bad Luka Sam-A-Knick had those plantar facitis issues.  He was emerging as a serious stretch 4 talent when he went down. 
Title: Disgraceful Portrayal Of Jerry West
Post by: chipstern on March 22, 2022, 02:47:51 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrCnyviHTG4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrCnyviHTG4)

How Mad Should Jerry West Be About His Unflattering Portrayal?

https://www.si.com/nba/2022/03/09/gary-vitti-mitch-kupchak-jerry-west-lakers-hbo-winning-time (https://www.si.com/nba/2022/03/09/gary-vitti-mitch-kupchak-jerry-west-lakers-hbo-winning-time)
Title: Meanwhile, Back In Parallell Hell
Post by: chipstern on March 22, 2022, 02:54:05 PM
Miles McBride had 20 points, 18 assists, 4 steals & just 1 turnover in Westchester Knicks win over Grand Rapids last night. An imperfect stat, but NYK has outscored opponents by a total of 109 points in his 269 NBA minutes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 22, 2022, 08:00:31 PM
Yawn.....

Eat up those slow guys.
Title: Heh
Post by: chipstern on March 22, 2022, 09:22:18 PM
Right.

Surely not up to the lofty level of competition Jimmer posts his big time  numbers against.

YAWN
Title: Collapse
Post by: carlos123 on March 22, 2022, 10:03:29 PM
What kind of teams routinely collapse down the stretch?
Poorly coached teams?
Just the Knicks?
Who knows? Chamaco?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 22, 2022, 10:21:38 PM
It looks like we will be entering the lottery somewhere in the 9th to 11th slot.
Title: Re: Collapse
Post by: lesterluv on March 23, 2022, 01:36:58 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on March 22, 2022, 10:03:29 PM
What kind of teams routinely collapse down the stretch?
Poorly coached teams?
Just the Knicks?
Who knows? Chamaco?

Teams that don't execute basketball particularly well and orient their offenses around chuckleheads chucking.

RJ took more shots tonight then anybody else who was active in the NBA.
Including Trae, lol. (gotta count the ones that turned into FT attempts)

Surely, you're not likely to win when that's what's happening.
I enjoyed the game tonight quite a bit, nonetheless. Some good stuff happening. And I would rather watch one chucklehead than two.


*** We are all hoping RJ becomes a lot more like Jimmy Butler, the most offensively talented player on a winning team. RJ has had more 20 FGA games this month than Jimmy has had all season long. A lot more growing ahead for our young man.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 23, 2022, 09:31:56 AM
No Julius against the Hawks.


Fucking a-hole WFAN morning guy insinuating Randle was well enough to play.

Piss on that.
Title: Geld Them Puppies, Thibs
Post by: chipstern on March 23, 2022, 12:36:46 PM
"We're playing short handed." 

Coach sure has a tight sphincter. 
Title: Just A Passing Thought
Post by: chipstern on March 23, 2022, 01:21:31 PM
Perhaps Neon Leon & World Wide Waste can sign Carmelo for next year, so he can help Thibs mentor Julius and RJ on the correct way to run the 1-on-3 ISO. 
Title: Guess What?
Post by: chipstern on March 23, 2022, 06:15:52 PM
Julius out tonight.

So is Mitchell.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 23, 2022, 06:37:54 PM
Kyrie is FREE!!!!!
Title: Interesting
Post by: chipstern on March 23, 2022, 07:36:46 PM
How crisp and cohesive the ball movement is without Randle OR Barrett dominating the rock.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 23, 2022, 09:33:34 PM
That was fun. Frontcourt dominance coupled with backcourt parity. Very nice win.

Tenth or eleventh looks like.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 23, 2022, 09:36:56 PM
Jules and Ev for John Wall, KJ Martin and a top pick swap.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on March 23, 2022, 10:43:23 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 23, 2022, 09:36:56 PM
Jules and Ev for John Wall, KJ Martin and a top pick swap.

💩
Title: Say whaaat?
Post by: carlos123 on March 23, 2022, 10:52:34 PM
Quote from: Fac on March 23, 2022, 09:36:56 PM
Jules and Ev for John Wall, KJ Martin and a top pick swap.

Fac, I like you and even wanted you to be a coach for the Knicks, but as a trader... have mercy!

This is about the craziest of all the many crazy trades you have concocted. What have you been smokin today?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 24, 2022, 12:09:40 AM
   
Quote from: chipstern on March 23, 2022, 07:36:46 PM
How crisp and cohesive the ball movement is without Randle OR Barrett dominating the rock.

What a delight! 15 assists 3 minutes into the 2nd quarter!


Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 23, 2022, 06:37:54 PM
Kyrie is FREE!!!!!

What a dumbfuck, lol! Could a been free for game one. Think he loved the attention, tho..
Title: ChamAAcos latest
Post by: carlos123 on March 24, 2022, 12:40:56 AM
Quote from: Les on March 24, 2022, 12:09:40 AM

Quote from: chamAAcocartero8 on March 23, 2022, 06:37:54 PM
Kyrie is FREE!!!!!

What a dumbfuck, lol! Could a been free for game one. Think he loved the attention, tho..

Kyrie, the corpse of Matthew Perna and ChamAAco himself too! 🥸
Title: Re: Say whaaat?
Post by: facilitatorn on March 24, 2022, 05:31:41 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on March 23, 2022, 10:52:34 PM
Quote from: Fac on March 23, 2022, 09:36:56 PM
Jules and Ev for John Wall, KJ Martin and a top pick swap.

Fac, I like you and even wanted you to be a coach for the Knicks, but as a trader... have mercy!

This is about the craziest of all the many crazy trades you have concocted. What have you been smokin today?

Come to San Diego, brother. Let me know how you are getting in

My thought is that we can and likely will either move Kemba or use him appropriately as Charlotte is with IT at the moment, Augie at the Lakers, Ish where ever he is this year, etc.

Removing our two largest salaries to have mega cap space not this coming year, but the one after.

Rockets have a top five pick so you have an even steven chance that someone as good as Bolomero or Murry or better is around when the Rockets pick

So let us look at who is on the books minus the players coming back if we do this deal

Sims Taj Noel
Obi
Reddish Burks
RJ Grimes
Rose IQ McBride Kemba

Resign Mitch, trade or stretch Noel and Kemba, add the Rockets players coming back and for arguments sake Murray in the draft

Mitch Sims Taj
Obi Martin Murray
RJ Cam
Burks Grimes IQ
Wall Rose McBride

You have a roster spot and the two twoways to play with. You are off the cap by not much one way or the other. Wall comes off the books at his balloon rate. If it works you try to resign Wall on a reasonable deal, opening the chance to add more or keep breakout talent.

On the flip, you get a Wood - Randle - Sengun frontcourt to go with the young stable of guards and wings. You also get the Knicks all time single season leader in made threes to kick out to from double teams. And you are bringing Randle home to Texas. Are they going to get more out of Wall for that money? It gives Houston two real vets that do not step on their kids toes and a cheaper rookie salary in a deep and interesting draft.

Think about the switchable defensive prowess and overall energy a second unit with Grimes, Reddish, and KJ Martin would bring. You could have a freaking band saw there.

It might still be nuts, but I like it for both sides. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 24, 2022, 05:54:55 AM
Looking at that roster, I think I would run the lineups differently

I am assuming if that roster came together, Rose would pull the same deal with Wall as he did with Kemba, and that aside from that starter, if the kids can hold their own you let the young vets play big and extensive minutes. Rumor is we are keeping Thibs after all.

Mitch Sims Taj
Obi Martin Murray
Reddish Burks
RJ Grimes IQ
Wall McBride Rose

Play eleven with Taj Murray and Rose being situational. If Wall and Rose  are both banged up we have Deuce and IQ supported by Burks or maybe just Burks.

Mitch Sims Taj
Obi Martin Murray
Reddish Grimes
RJ Burks
IQ McBride Wall Rose

Or totally serving youth and catching a home run in the draft

Mitch Sims Taj
Obi Murray
Reddish Martin
RJ Grimes Burks
IQ McBride Wall Rose


I might still be looking for a small forward or a swing or a stretch with some form of a serious intimidation factor to round things out.
Title: Re: Interesting
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 24, 2022, 08:54:37 AM
Quote from: chipstern on March 23, 2022, 07:36:46 PM
How crisp and cohesive the ball movement is without Randle OR Barrett dominating the rock.

Enjoyable night for sure.  As I said alll along - do not deal Toppin.  Lefthanded dunk off the lob (Clyde called it the Statue of Liberty) - incredible

Knicks helped Nets as well.
Title: Sharing The Rock: Ball Movement, Cohesion, Efficiency
Post by: chipstern on March 24, 2022, 03:29:40 PM
Fournier

34 Minutes
12 points
1 board
7 assists

Toppin

40 Minutes
18 points
11 boards
6 assists
1 steal
1 block
0 turnovers

Quickley

21 Minutes
10 points
5 boards
7 assists

McBride

11 Minutes
3-of-4 from Trey
2 boards
1 assist

RJ

38 Minutes
30 points [10/19, 3-7 trey, 7-8 FTs]
3 boards
3 assists
1 steal

Hoping we get to see the same lineups against Miami, who will be hopping mad after a loss last night to the Warriors, and some serious agita between the Coach/Haslem and Butler. 


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 24, 2022, 04:29:34 PM
Please....lay off the McB stats - you give them only when somewhat impessive

Key for Barrett was back to back 30s - though it took a slew of shots first time out.  SECOND time this  year.  If you had told anyone RJ would have 30 4 times prior to season....


nahhhh... especially not 2 b2bs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 24, 2022, 04:31:11 PM
Hoping we get to see the same lineups against Miami, who will be hopping mad after a loss last night to the Warriors, and some serious agita between the Coach/Haslem and Butler.



Gonna go out on a limb and say Julius may pull a Rose - be done for the year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 24, 2022, 04:35:24 PM
Please...lay off the RjB 30s..they are absolutely meaningless if it takes 25 shots to achieve, and a sign of terrible basketball decision making. We are 0-5 when he vomits up shots like that.
Title: Re: Say whaaat?
Post by: carlos123 on March 24, 2022, 04:57:41 PM
Quote from: Fac on March 24, 2022, 05:31:41 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on March 23, 2022, 10:52:34 PM
Quote from: Fac on March 23, 2022, 09:36:56 PM
Jules and Ev for John Wall, KJ Martin and a top pick swap.

Fac, I like you and even wanted you to be a coach for the Knicks, but as a trader... have mercy!

This is about the craziest of all the many crazy trades you have concocted. What have you been smokin today?

Come to San Diego, brother. Let me know how you are getting in

My thought is that we can and likely will either move Kemba or use him appropriately as Charlotte is with IT at the moment, Augie at the Lakers, Ish where ever he is this year, etc.

Removing our two largest salaries to have mega cap space not this coming year, but the one after.

Rockets have a top five pick so you have an even steven chance that someone as good as Bolomero or Murry or better is around when the Rockets pick

So let us look at who is on the books minus the players coming back if we do this deal

Sims Taj Noel
Obi
Reddish Burks
RJ Grimes
Rose IQ McBride Kemba

Resign Mitch, trade or stretch Noel and Kemba, add the Rockets players coming back and for arguments sake Murray in the draft

Mitch Sims Taj
Obi Martin Murray
RJ Cam
Burks Grimes IQ
Wall Rose McBride

You have a roster spot and the two twoways to play with. You are off the cap by not much one way or the other. Wall comes off the books at his balloon rate. If it works you try to resign Wall on a reasonable deal, opening the chance to add more or keep breakout talent.

On the flip, you get a Wood - Randle - Sengun frontcourt to go with the young stable of guards and wings. You also get the Knicks all time single season leader in made threes to kick out to from double teams. And you are bringing Randle home to Texas. Are they going to get more out of Wall for that money? It gives Houston two real vets that do not step on their kids toes and a cheaper rookie salary in a deep and interesting draft.

Think about the switchable defensive prowess and overall energy a second unit with Grimes, Reddish, and KJ Martin would bring. You could have a freaking band saw there.

It might still be nuts, but I like it for both sides.

So... you are giving up on Julius, King Julius of last season, and Fournier for a Wall who may or may not be good, and whatever pick we get plus what may or may not be two years down the line.

Julius is not at all old, and we know he can be a very, very good player. Maybe all he needs is better coaching (that's where you come in) or a better PG. And Evan can be a very useful player if used properly.

So, like you said, It might still be nuts, INDEED!

PS. I did not know you lived in San Diego. They must be selling good stuff in there.
Title: You did?
Post by: carlos123 on March 24, 2022, 05:04:43 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on March 24, 2022, 08:54:37 AM
As I said alll along - do not deal Toppin.  Lefthanded dunk off the lob (Clyde called it the Statue of Liberty) - incredible

You said alll (triple l) along? Like...when?

Chamaco keeps the corpse of Matthew Perna in his "thoughts and prayers".
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on March 24, 2022, 05:55:22 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on March 24, 2022, 04:29:34 PM
Please....lay off the McB stats - you give them only when somewhat impessive

Key for Barrett was back to back 30s - though it took a slew of shots first time out.  SECOND time this  year.  If you had told anyone RJ would have 30 4 times prior to season....


nahhhh... especially not 2 b2bs.

FUCK YOU. 
Title: Earth To Dawg
Post by: chipstern on March 24, 2022, 06:00:57 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on March 24, 2022, 04:35:24 PM
Please...lay off the RjB 30s..they are absolutely meaningless if it takes 25 shots to achieve, and a sign of terrible basketball decision making. We are 0-5 when he vomits up shots like that.

You appear to be suffering from KiidReflux Disease. 

Last night RJ did not dominate the ball, was efficient [10-19], converted 7-8 FTs, and did not force the action.  It was an honest 30 and we won.  Both positive signs. 

RJ has a ways to go for sure.  He is a rising star as a scorer, but still has much work to do as a shooter, where his jump shot is still suspect, as is his FT shooting. 

But I'll tell you this about our puppy.  He has NO REAR VIEW MIRROR, and if he stinks up the joint one game, you may readily observe improvement in the next. 

PS: Be reminded RJ is 21. 

PPS: Did I mention how Kiid can take the tumescent penis out of his smug, sneering hand, and along with his dissmissive hard on for Miles McBride, ram it up his capacious ass?  No?  My bad.  This from the man who years later still finds it in what passes for his reasoning to sing the praises of Jordan Hill, which serves but to bolster his street cred. 

PPPS: FUCK YOU THRICE, Kiid.   
Title: Obi Kanoobee
Post by: chipstern on March 24, 2022, 06:10:15 PM
Obi has a ways to go, but last night was his best as a Knick, since, not coincidentally, he didn't have to look over his shoulder for the Quick Thibian Hook and got 40 minutes.   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLAmAS7gWew (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLAmAS7gWew)

18-11-6

My fave moment, both for Obi in particular and the Knicks in general, comes at 00:46, where Burks brings up the ball, Obi makes a read and a cut [MOTION, MOVING WITHOUT THE BALL, MY GOD] and Burks lays down a sweet bounce pass, as Toppin glides to the hoop for an emphatic ramadamna flush on a perectly executed back door play.  Actual HOOPS in the classic mode. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 24, 2022, 06:58:04 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on March 24, 2022, 04:35:24 PM
Please...lay off the RjB 30s..they are absolutely meaningless if it takes 25 shots to achieve, and a sign of terrible basketball decision making. We are 0-5 when he vomits up shots like that.

Sorry but proving he could score 30 was one of the next important steps in  Barrett's development.

14 ppg  -------->  20 ppg.

Thats a different player
Title: Re: Say whaaat?
Post by: facilitatorn on March 24, 2022, 08:56:59 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on March 24, 2022, 04:57:41 PM
So... you are giving up on Julius, King Julius of last season, and Fournier for a Wall who may or may not be good, and whatever pick we get plus what may or may not be two years down the line.

Julius is not at all old, and we know he can be a very, very good player. Maybe all he needs is better coaching (that's where you come in) or a better PG. And Evan can be a very useful player if used properly.

So, like you said, It might still be nuts, INDEED!

PS. I did not know you lived in San Diego. They must be selling good stuff in there.


Julius is not old and he has enviable skills and physique, but he is tough to play with and he has not after a while in the league mastered his emotions. Fournier is OK. He just is not as good as anyone behind him or around him on the depth chart.

Trading them for Wall and younger guys who fill actual roster needs and who have styles of play that lifts the pack makes sense now. We went into this year thinking we might only be a year away. It turns out we were a year away from being a year away. A smart team would recognize this and act.

Also, any big who has pinch post responsibility in a Thibs offense is going to rack up serious assists. This has been true going back to Jo No on the Bulls.

They do sell good stuff in San Diego, just not as good as what I grow.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 24, 2022, 09:23:37 PM
The Knicks coach that sadly never was


ERIC MUSSELMAN takes down Gonzaga
Title: Re: Say whaaat?
Post by: carlos123 on March 24, 2022, 10:13:28 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 24, 2022, 08:56:59 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on March 24, 2022, 04:57:41 PM
So... you are giving up on Julius, King Julius of last season, and Fournier for a Wall who may or may not be good, and whatever pick we get plus what may or may not be two years down the line.

Julius is not at all old, and we know he can be a very, very good player. Maybe all he needs is better coaching (that's where you come in) or a better PG. And Evan can be a very useful player if used properly.

So, like you said, It might still be nuts, INDEED!

PS. I did not know you lived in San Diego. They must be selling good stuff in there.


Julius is not old and he has enviable skills and physique, but he is tough to play with and he has not after a while in the league mastered his emotions. Fournier is OK. He just is not as good as anyone behind him or around him on the depth chart.

Trading them for Wall and younger guys who fill actual roster needs and who have styles of play that lifts the pack makes sense now. We went into this year thinking we might only be a year away. It turns out we were a year away from being a year away. A smart team would recognize this and act.

Also, any big who has pinch post responsibility in a Thibs offense is going to rack up serious assists. This has been true going back to Jo No on the Bulls.

They do sell good stuff in San Diego, just not as good as what I grow.

Fac, the point is that you trade to get better players, or equivalent players that fit better the teams needs. With your trade we may very well get worse.

Glad you grow good stuff. Enjoy!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 24, 2022, 11:38:16 PM
Julius is not old and he has enviable skills and physique, but he is tough to play with and he has not after a while in the league mastered his emotions. Fournier is OK. He just is not as good as anyone behind him or around him on the depth chart.




UHHHH...WHATTTTT?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 25, 2022, 12:12:21 AM
How the hell did Duke beat this team?  T Tech played freaking amazing.

Props to K and his band of men.  ONE HUNDRED tournament wins.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 25, 2022, 11:09:05 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on March 24, 2022, 06:58:04 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on March 24, 2022, 04:35:24 PM
Please...lay off the RjB 30s..they are absolutely meaningless if it takes 25 shots to achieve, and a sign of terrible basketball decision making. We are 0-5 when he vomits up shots like that.

Sorry but proving he could score 30 was one of the next important steps in  Barrett's development.

14 ppg  -------->  20 ppg.

Thats a different player

lmao, causing your team to lose a game because of your mindless selfish play is only an important development in terms of receiving NEGATIVE FEEDBACK on it. Hope he got his ass smacked. Looks like he did, lol.

Alonzo Trier scored 30 a couple months into his career..big fucking deal. Where ya at Iso Zo?

Quote from: chipstern on March 24, 2022, 06:00:57 PM

Last night RJ did not dominate the ball, was efficient [10-19], converted 7-8 FTs, and did not force the action.  It was an honest 30 and we won.  Both positive signs. 

RJ has a ways to go for sure.  He is a rising star as a scorer, but still has much work to do as a shooter, where his jump shot is still suspect, as is his FT shooting. 

But I'll tell you this about our puppy.  He has NO REAR VIEW MIRROR, and if he stinks up the joint one game, you may readily observe improvement in the next. 

PS: Be reminded RJ is 21. 


Make no mistake,  I like I our young buck, and where he is at at 21, but facts is facts, he has been giving a loose rein and a fast track because the org cannot afford to have effed another pick, that is fine, pretty encouraged it seems like he knows where he needs to grow.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 25, 2022, 01:40:20 PM
Attaboy.
Title: Happy doggie 🐶
Post by: carlos123 on March 25, 2022, 02:27:33 PM
Quote from: chamAAcocartero8 on March 25, 2022, 01:40:20 PM
Attaboy.

Hey Les, you got some sort of backhanded ChamAAco compliment. Bet that made you very happy! 💕

Chamaco keeps the corpse of Matthew Perna in his "thoughts and prayers".
Title: Facil? PhoKing CrazeE
Post by: chipstern on March 25, 2022, 03:12:22 PM
You must be loading some thermonuclear San Diego sativa into your PAX3, because any way you slice your trade, it is fucking ludicrous.  Kenyon Junior?  Puhleese.  John Wall to inhibit the growth of IQ and McBride for one season, and prevent us from going after younger more long term talent.  And like Houston is going to give us a lottery pick?  Let alone Ainge is going to gift us Mitchell.  Or the Wizards, Beal?  Maladroit, masturbatory, misanthropic manipulations that do not make us better, but in fact, make us worse in the short term and long term. 

(https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/16/25/a2/a1/photo2jpg.jpg)

Make that PhoKing crazee [my daughter lived in San Diego from 1994-2013]. 

Not that I would reject any sensible trades involving Julius or Fournier, though I think Evan has owned his struggles and limitations like a man, and has kept getting better and better as the season went along.  His D is not Bullock like, but Reggie has had a dubious season for the Mavs, and Evan is game on D, and a willing and adept passer. 

I'm wondering is Dallas, having moved on from KP, might package Brunson in a sign and trade for Dallas homebody Randle and/or Robinson. 

I love Julius, but an offense predicated on 1-on-3 ISOs where everyone stands around and wathced JR dribble into coverage is not conducive to cutters, motion, ball movement and unselfish hoops. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 25, 2022, 06:11:34 PM
I love Julius, but an offense predicated on 1 on 3 ISOs where everyone stands around and watched JR dribble into coverage is not conducive to cutters, motion, ball movement and unselfish hoops.


Happens on occasion. Not nearly as much as you and others insinuate.  Still a top player - for who we will need a top return.
Title: Puppy Power
Post by: chipstern on March 25, 2022, 10:26:50 PM
Can we close out?

Completely Inspiring.

IQ.  McBride. Grimes. Sims.

Damn.
Title: Damn...Ready NOW
Post by: chipstern on March 25, 2022, 10:35:18 PM
I'm in tears.  DAWGS.

What a 4th Quarter.  IQ. Grimes.  Big shots against the beasts of the East.


PS: Deuce, big shots, manning up against Lowry, and a  tenacious board in final seconds taking it away from Tucker...

Fuck you Kiid.
Title: Re: Damn...Ready NOW
Post by: carlos123 on March 25, 2022, 11:18:56 PM
Quote from: chipstern on March 25, 2022, 10:35:18 PM
I'm in tears.  DAWGS.

What a 4th Quarter.  IQ. Grimes.  Big shots against the beasts of the East.


PS: Deuce, big shots, manning up against Lowry, and a  tenacious board in final seconds taking it away from Tucker...

Fuck you Kiid Chamaco.

Only RJ with more than 30 minutes.

10 players with significant minutes.

Everyone contributing.

How about we do this more often?
Title: Re: Damn...Ready NOW
Post by: lesterluv on March 26, 2022, 12:06:26 AM
Quote from: chipstern on March 25, 2022, 10:35:18 PM
I'm in tears.  DAWGS.

What a 4th Quarter.  IQ. Grimes.  Big shots against the beasts of the East.


PS: Deuce, big shots, manning up against Lowry, and a  tenacious board in final seconds taking it away from Tucker...

Fuck you Kiid.

lol, lol, lol, .... that was FUN (and best of all, we survived yet another make it almost impossible for you to win the game type game from RJ! (cringed when he came back in, but it all worked out, a team can overcome the bad possessions that lead to a 5-17 much easier than an 6-22 or an 8-26)

** Thibs better not try and bring that same-old same-old ish back to the Garden, he's gonna get hit with all kinds of flying concession matter...

*** to be fair to our rock-stubborn human-manatee of a coach, I've been loving how he's been giving Deuce just a little more rope each game

*** top return for Julius? sure, if you can get it, but my two second-rounder offer still stands...it is Obi Time Bitch, either rotate your downpointing thumbs and get a new lease on life, the Garden and how to play ball or pack it the eff outa town

**** notice how Coach smiles a lot more on the sidelines when he does not have to babysit the sourpatch kid for 39 minutes
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 26, 2022, 12:37:41 AM
Coach shelves Fournier. Kids make the comeback. Totally freak co-inky-dink.

We are building a nice core.

As per my trade idea, if Wall can outplay Deuce, Quickley, Rose, and possibly Rokas, he can get minutes, otherwise he is a rehabbing vet coming off the books giving us space to keep the guys we need to keep and sign the guys we need to get. Also, do not undersell KJ. He is the kind of guy who kills us by being more on the ball and on the spot than anyone we can put on the floor.

Deuce and Grimes with Quickley are fun to watch.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 26, 2022, 12:56:18 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 26, 2022, 12:37:41 AM
Coach shelves Fournier. Kids make the comeback. Totally freak co-inky-dink.

Not the correct take, lol....
Title: Tick Tock
Post by: chipstern on March 26, 2022, 02:03:06 PM
"I was the only one on this forum to project the potential of Deuce McBride."

The Prophet Kiid
Title: Taken over
Post by: carlos123 on March 27, 2022, 06:00:20 PM
It seems this forum was taken over by spammers.

Actually looks like one spammer using a different name on each post.

GO AWAY!!!
Title: Re: Taken over and taken care of
Post by: carlos123 on March 27, 2022, 06:25:07 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on March 27, 2022, 06:00:20 PM
It seems this forum was taken over by spammers.

Actually looks like one spammer using a different name on each post.

GO AWAY!!!

Thanks Josh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 27, 2022, 08:16:13 PM
I see we eked out a win against the Pistons. Plan to go watch the replay. Looks like Jules was back and Grimes was out.

Title: Re: Taken over and taken care of
Post by: josh on March 27, 2022, 09:34:54 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on March 27, 2022, 06:25:07 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on March 27, 2022, 06:00:20 PM
It seems this forum was taken over by spammers.

Actually looks like one spammer using a different name on each post.

GO AWAY!!!

Thanks Josh

You're quite welcome.
Title: Re: Taken over and taken care of
Post by: chipstern on March 27, 2022, 09:48:41 PM
Quote from: josh on March 27, 2022, 09:34:54 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on March 27, 2022, 06:25:07 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on March 27, 2022, 06:00:20 PM
It seems this forum was taken over by spammers.

Actually looks like one spammer using a different name on each post.

GO AWAY!!!

Thanks Josh

You're quite welcome.

👉💙👈
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 28, 2022, 08:58:45 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 27, 2022, 08:16:13 PM
I see we eked out a win against the Pistons. Plan to go watch the replay. Looks like Jules was back and Grimes was out.

How did Deuce play?  Chip a little silent.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 28, 2022, 12:27:47 PM
He saved our asses as much as one can shooting 0-6. The guy is a natural and a great pickup for us.
Title: The Sounds Of....
Post by: chipstern on March 28, 2022, 02:12:03 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on March 28, 2022, 08:58:45 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 27, 2022, 08:16:13 PM
I see we eked out a win against the Pistons. Plan to go watch the replay. Looks like Jules was back and Grimes was out.

How did Deuce play?  Chip a little silent.

How did Jordan & Jimmer play? 

PS: We won...

PPS: How did Kyrie play last night.  Not particularly well.  Should we read too much into that?  One thinks not. 

(https://media4.giphy.com/media/SiYo47Mllo5qM/200w.gif?cid=82a1493b14hz9dqnbercxp6fh7qlpkjgi9856angg70okv8y&rid=200w.gif&ct=g)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 28, 2022, 03:20:39 PM
Deuce will be fine.

Hyland (19/5/5 per 36) is headed to the playoffs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 28, 2022, 03:51:43 PM
 And if we still have 58, fuck it -

MAC MCCLUNG, though I also like BRYANT REAVES





Heh

Could have had him
 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 28, 2022, 04:36:47 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 30, 2021, 07:01:00 PM
Sorry.  I am just not believing Rose holds up an entire season plus playoffs

If he wants to run a team he can go elsewhere





indeed
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 28, 2022, 04:37:23 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 30, 2021, 07:57:29 PM
Anyway - happy to see McBride aboard - and I think passing on Jackson shows we want more seasoned stock (read:. plan is to fully compete immediately, not wait for a simmering sort)





yeah
Title: Numbers #25 & 58
Post by: chipstern on March 28, 2022, 04:38:02 PM
Grimes

Sims

Not Too Shabby
Title: Re: McBride
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 28, 2022, 04:40:46 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 30, 2021, 08:51:41 PM
Potential. 

Comparisons with our own Charlie Ward abound. 

Similar size at roughly 6'1"/6'2" and 200 pounds, with the requisite toughness that comes from being football players. 

At the risk of repeating myself, while undersized in pairing up with big NBA guards, McBride is a tenacious
ball hawk with a 6'9" wingspan, and enormous hands, on the order [proportionally] of a Giannis, a Connie Hawkins.  Forces on the order of 2 steals a game. 


Coming out of college, a better offensive repertoire than Ward had coming out of college, though Charlie dramatically increased his FT% and 3-pt shooting over the course of his career. 

McBride ["Deuce"] is apparently a capable 40% shooter from trey, as well as an efficient, fluid scorer
off the dribble and pull up.  He will be challenged to go to the rack at the next level, but hits his FTs at a plus-80% clip. 

A snarky competitor. 

Welcome to NY, Deuce.







heh

Ward and McBride both played football. 

Yeah.   And Bryce Harper and I played baseball.



Deuce's 40 per cent 3s as a soph meant diddly dick for NBA projection



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 28, 2022, 06:04:10 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 31, 2021, 03:51:58 AM
The ObiT pick is still an awkward fit.
I guess we were uncertain about Randle.
But PF, especially backup PF, is a fairly easy slot to fill.

Hell, OKC just got a future 1st for doing the favor of taking on Favors (2/$20M) salary, to help Utah improve their cap.  OKC sent out only a late 2027 2nd rounder (the lowest of their 4 2nd rounders).
The kind of move Knix should be looking for.
Some teams will need to squeeze under the cap, or look to reduce their lux tax.  Makes it less painful for UtaH to resign Conley.
Favors a solid enough backup PF/C who can defend/rebound.

Assuming NYK extends Julius, ObiT should have more value on a developing team where he can get more minutes and develop/start, rather than as a 12-15 minute backup PF on the Knix, where Thibs prefers to run his starters long minutes.



STILL a moronic take.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 28, 2022, 06:06:58 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 31, 2021, 04:31:23 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on July 31, 2021, 05:28:03 AM
BOS picked up Josh Rich for apparently nada.
Presumably DAL will then re-sign Tim Jr.
Also talk they may make a play for Lowry.

Seems Celts decided not to overpay for on-and-off Fournier, preferring the cheaper on-and-off Richardson ($11.5M to the $18M-$20M Fournier is looking for).  Josh Rich has been somewhat of a disappointment and has been shuffled around the past 3 off-seasons.  But still just 27, can soak up some minutes, doesn't hurt you, puts it together now and then.
With Tatum, Jaylen, Smart, Josh Rich is fine enough, rather than paying a lot for Fournier.



Celts still need a difference maker (when talking about seeking a conference title now)

Right now biggest addition has been Horfird without a doubt.

Udoka could be bigger?  I won't quibble, will wait to judge that






yyyepppp
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 28, 2022, 06:10:14 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 31, 2021, 10:39:55 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on July 31, 2021, 09:06:35 PM
I'd get a hell of lot more excited about a Talen Horton-Tucker than most of the names being bandied about here. The kid is 20.

Lakers kept him (Lowry talks) and gave up a great shot at another title





yyepppppp
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 28, 2022, 06:13:04 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on August 01, 2021, 02:06:23 PM
Randle certainly capable of being part of a BIG THREE.

RJ not there yet.

So, we seek the SECOND piece.



hmmmmm....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 28, 2022, 06:15:43 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 01, 2021, 07:55:45 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 01, 2021, 06:42:39 PM
Malik Monk is of no further use to Charlotte and hits the unrestricted free agent market.

That's a thought. 

But we just got Quentin Grimes.  Prefer to go with the new kid on the block.  Bigger.  Stronger.  Healthier.  FRESHER.   


hmmmm......

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/monkma01.html
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 28, 2022, 06:17:21 PM
Quote from: elephant on August 02, 2021, 11:01:02 PM
I'm happy with all this too.

Fuck it, I like our guys. However imperfect, this new formation seems much better than the alternatives endlessly ballyhooed in recent months.




Well...

all right.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 28, 2022, 06:22:26 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on August 03, 2021, 11:01:11 AM
Yes.  Good post.

But first...

must keep winning

NBATV guys not sure we are solidly in top 8, seems they feel last season was a bit flukey

Me?  I think the continuity, plus a usable guy like Fornier and better Robinson health (fingers crossed) plus maturity from Toppin signals an incredibly deep group.

I think when all is said and done this could be a Knicks era we can be proud of, even short of a title.




ohhhhh....

alas......Derek.....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 28, 2022, 08:46:59 PM
There's something masturbatory about these posts.

What are you doing? And why do you want people to watch?
Title: Master & Aspirant
Post by: chipstern on March 28, 2022, 08:59:55 PM
RJ doing his best DeRozan right in Demar's face
Title: Burks
Post by: chipstern on March 28, 2022, 09:58:24 PM
😇🌺😇
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 28, 2022, 10:13:54 PM
Deuce shoots fine.

We missed a hell of a lot of free throws and still messed around and beat the Bulls.

Four straight I think.

At least on some nights we don
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 28, 2022, 11:36:15 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 28, 2022, 10:13:54 PM
At least on some nights we don

Those apostrophes will kill ya every time.

Quote from: chipstern on March 28, 2022, 08:59:55 PM
RJ doing his best DeRozan right in Demar's face

Chip must have some magic because every time I use one my posts get slashed....

Fun game tonight!
Title: Chamaco and the Spammer
Post by: carlos123 on March 29, 2022, 12:09:59 AM
Quote from: elephant on March 28, 2022, 08:46:59 PM
There's something masturbatory about these posts.

What are you doing? And why do you want people to watch?

The Spammer is back.

His posts are almost as boring as Chamaco going down Memory Lane to last summer, to prove to all of us, hmmmmmm, something. What was it, Cham?

PS. Les, I agree Chip must have some magic, at least with apostrophes. Maybe he is secretly into witchcraft? 🧙‍♀️
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on March 29, 2022, 12:41:03 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on March 28, 2022, 11:36:15 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 28, 2022, 10:13:54 PM
At least on some nights we don

Those apostrophes will kill ya every time.

Quote from: chipstern on March 28, 2022, 08:59:55 PM
RJ doing his best DeRozan right in Demar's face

Chip must have some magic because every time I use one my posts get slashed....

Fun game tonight!

If you cut and copy and paste external content.

If you create from scratch?  No problems. 
Title: Not really
Post by: carlos123 on March 29, 2022, 01:09:26 AM
No, Chip, that is not it.
It slashes my posts if I forget and use one on my own.
And Facs slashed post was obviously original.
Like Les said, you got some magic going on with apostrophes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 29, 2022, 01:31:42 AM
Chip lives in the pocket. There is not much more to say.

The cut off bit was noting that not much bucket getting was needed from Randle and Fournier to put up 109 on the Bulls.

I am expanding my Rockets trade proposal because Some posters thought we were giving up without getting back. Ok let us try this,

John Wall, Usman Garuba, KJ Martin, and their high lotto this year for Randle, Fournier, and Walker plus our second this year and the Dallas pick.

It makes up for the hole in the frontcourt and has us adding two lotto guys while saving a bit this year and a ton down the line. They can have Noel instead of Kemba, seeing as I value you then equally for the franchise going forward.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 29, 2022, 06:33:46 AM
Rockets are keeping their "high lotto" unless they can turn it into

a -  a higher lotto
or
b  -  2 lower picks, but not much lower,  including a "lotto".


--------

Great game by our boys last night.  Bulls playing for something - make no mistake.


Quickley with the cool leadership hand - and Burks - what can you say?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 29, 2022, 11:01:42 AM
You can say Burks should have started all year.

You would be right to say that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 29, 2022, 12:25:29 PM
Careful.

You're gonna upset someone.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 29, 2022, 01:32:04 PM
Houston would be getting 20-10-5 on an off year plus 3 threes a game at a good clip with secondary playmaking on the books for Green and Senguns rookie contracts. That balances and fortifies their team more than anyone there in the lottery this year.

I am less fixed on the picks than the players involved.
Title: Houston fan?
Post by: carlos123 on March 29, 2022, 04:52:14 PM
Quote from: Fac on March 29, 2022, 01:32:04 PM
Houston would be getting 20-10-5 on an off year plus 3 threes a game at a good clip with secondary playmaking on the books for Green and Senguns rookie contracts. That balances and fortifies their team more than anyone there in the lottery this year.

I am less fixed on the picks than the players involved.

Fac, in addition to being a grower of very good stuff, are you also a Houston fan?

Also, both Chamaco and ChamAAco agree with you re. Burks. That must make you very, very happy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 29, 2022, 06:06:45 PM
Another we passed on for Deuce

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2022/03/pelicans-converting-jose-alvarado-to-four-year-deal.html

Already saw this guy last night

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/dosunay01.html
Title: For The Trader KnicksVics Inside All Of You [The FACIL Chronicles]
Post by: chipstern on March 29, 2022, 06:55:52 PM
https://nbadraftroom.com/p/2022-nba-mock-draft/ (https://nbadraftroom.com/p/2022-nba-mock-draft/)

(https://media2.giphy.com/media/l1J9APRq3KpgBZhkY/200.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 29, 2022, 07:35:25 PM
Jules has asked out. Still think I am being too nice to Houston?

I would be happy to get Wall and a pick swap for Jules and Fournier with no padding at this point.

Jules for Harry Barnes and Trey Lyles would be a fine alternative though we would still need a dump spot for Evan, Kemba, and Noel.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on March 29, 2022, 08:32:05 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 29, 2022, 07:35:25 PM
Jules has asked out. Still think I am being too nice to Houston?

I would be happy to get Wall and a pick swap for Jules and Fournier with no padding at this point.

Jules for Harry Barnes and Trey Lyles would be a fine alternative though we would still need a dump spot for Evan, Kemba, and Noel.

Really?

Says who?  Some BlogOBlowHard? 

Conjecture Based On Conjecture. 

PS: You trades are...wanting.  Keep trying. 
Title: Trader Facil
Post by: chipstern on March 29, 2022, 08:44:43 PM
Julius for Myles Turner, straight up? 

Myles has one year remaining at 18 million. 

Make good?

New contract.

No?

Cap space. 

Anyway, carry on Trader Facil. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 29, 2022, 10:51:46 PM
Turner and Brogdon for Randle and Fournier would be ok. Turner for Randle straight up would be tough, but I would probably say yes at this point.

Watch the body language. His head is all wrong. Something must be done.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 30, 2022, 08:44:10 AM
Julius if anything likely goes in a package for someone making more $$
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 30, 2022, 08:50:02 AM
Reaching....

Is tiebreaker head to head or conference record?

If NY wins out Atl needs to go 3-4 to avoid tiebreaker.
Title: Facil
Post by: chipstern on March 30, 2022, 11:38:29 AM
The flaw in your reasoning is the idea that

A] That with Green and Porter that the Rockets would have any interest in Fournier.

B] That they would pony up a lottery pick for Julius.

C] That they would view four year commitments to JR and EV as preferrable to one final year of Wall.

Wishing ain't fishing.

Your trade makes sense from the Knicks POV.

Not Houston's. 

No way to spin it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 30, 2022, 12:26:14 PM
The positive to it is Rockets want to win soon.  Not just add younger to young.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: josh on March 30, 2022, 01:52:51 PM
I have just banned roughly 2,000 IP addresses, which I hope will cut down on the amount of spam we see on a daily basis. I reviewed the top 75 posters' various IP addresses and see no overlap.

If somebody informs you that they are locked out, alert me or just post about it in the Biden forum and I will try to deal with it.

I have posted this here as well as in the Biden forum, as these are the two most frequently read fora.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on March 30, 2022, 02:29:20 PM
Quote from: josh on March 30, 2022, 01:52:51 PM
I have just banned roughly 2,000 IP addresses, which I hope will cut down on the amount of spam we see on a daily basis. I reviewed the top 75 posters' various IP addresses and see no overlap.

If somebody informs you that they are locked out, alert me or just post about it in the Biden forum and I will try to deal with it.

I have posted this here as well as in the Biden forum, as these are the two most frequently read fora.

👍👍👁👍👍
Title: Missing...
Post by: chipstern on March 30, 2022, 03:49:34 PM
Been missing Marv Alpert's voice and humor as the playoffs beckon. 

But he is 80 and had enough. 

Still have Hubie Brown though, who will be 89 in September. 
Title: Re: Missing...
Post by: chipstern on March 30, 2022, 03:50:38 PM
Quote from: chipstern on March 30, 2022, 03:49:34 PM
Been missing Marv Alpert's voice and humor as the playoffs beckon. 

But he is 80 and had enough. 

Still have Hubie Brown though, who will be 89 in September.

Put an apostrophe in Alpert's name to see if I was cancelled out. 

So far...

So far--nothing. 

"Nothing." 
Title: Re: Missing...
Post by: LarryBnDC on March 30, 2022, 07:24:45 PM
Quote from: chipstern on March 30, 2022, 03:49:34 PM
Been missing Marv Alpert's voice and humor as the playoffs beckon. 

But he is 80 and had enough. 

Still have Hubie Brown though, who will be 89 in September.


One of my early hoops memories is Marv:

Frazier down the lane with a running one hander that is GOOOOD! Yes and it counts and there is a foul on the play!!
Title: Re: Missing...
Post by: chipstern on March 30, 2022, 09:19:57 PM
Quote from: LarryBnDC on March 30, 2022, 07:24:45 PM
Quote from: chipstern on March 30, 2022, 03:49:34 PM
Been missing Marv Alpert's voice and humor as the playoffs beckon. 

But he is 80 and had enough. 

Still have Hubie Brown though, who will be 89 in September.


One of my early hoops memories is Marv:

Frazier down the lane with a running one hander that is GOOOOD! Yes and it counts and there is a foul on the play!!

What was you old handle, Larry?
Title: Julius
Post by: carlos123 on March 30, 2022, 09:55:12 PM
What was Randle doing under our basket with 58 sec. left. Lets Bridges dunk completely unimpeded. Or was I just seeing complete indifference which was not there?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 30, 2022, 10:07:29 PM
This one has us on the lip of a lotto lock.

It is pretty clear Randle does not bother much with the fine details of giving your team the best chance to win moment by moment. He was a non-shithead generically checked out kind of player for a lot of the game. He did get one of his signature spins that I saw. I remember thinking oh no. Here we go.

If we keep playing somewhere between this game and the last few to end the string, none of our guys besides Kemba and Noel should really be that hard to trade.
Title: OTOH
Post by: carlos123 on March 30, 2022, 10:53:47 PM
Where is the Kamster?
Has not posted for a while.

PS. Chip, the apostrophes only work for you. The rest of us do not have your apostrophe magic. Enjoy!
Title: Re: Julius
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 31, 2022, 07:48:14 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on March 30, 2022, 09:55:12 PM
What was Randle doing under our basket with 58 sec. left. Lets Bridges dunk completely unimpeded. Or was I just seeing complete indifference which was not there?


Shhhh......

We have castrated Randle, as  you wanted

Then when we get beat, you  still blame him.

 
Your best bet is sticking with "we should have castrated him earlier".

Hope this helps in your  conversations elsewhere.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 31, 2022, 08:09:16 AM
Atlanta playing pretty well.

Some dude  named KEVIN KNOX had 17 in 18 minutes last night.
Title: Re: Julius
Post by: elephant on March 31, 2022, 10:05:53 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on March 31, 2022, 07:48:14 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on March 30, 2022, 09:55:12 PM
What was Randle doing under our basket with 58 sec. left. Lets Bridges dunk completely unimpeded. Or was I just seeing complete indifference which was not there?
Shhhh......

We have castrated Randle, as  you wanted

Then when we get beat, you  still blame him.

Your best bet is sticking with "we should have castrated him earlier".

Hope this helps in your  conversations elsewhere.

Castrating Randle?

Dumb and obnoxious even for you.

The man makes $20 million dollars a year to play basketball, and when he plays poorly, some people complain.

That's your idea of castration?

Julius has some problems. And they don't come from anyone but Julius. I doubt that he needs guys like you to defend his honor.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 31, 2022, 12:50:46 PM
Let me slow it down for you

Offense runs through Barrett now.  And has been effective of late

Barrett had a poor second half and Knick as a team had no answer for Ball and Bridges/the Hornets "spread" offense (Thibs speak).

 -  Just got 50-1 on TOR to win East.   Have ATL at 70-1 (they have gone up to 110).  Charlotte are 300-1.   Wow.
Title: Chamaco keeps topping hisself
Post by: carlos123 on March 31, 2022, 01:21:34 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on March 31, 2022, 07:48:14 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on March 30, 2022, 09:55:12 PM
What was Randle doing under our basket with 58 sec. left. Lets Bridges dunk completely unimpeded. Or was I just seeing complete indifference which was not there?


Shhhh......

We have castrated Randle, as  you wanted

Then when we get beat, you  still blame him.

 
Your best bet is sticking with "we should have castrated him earlier".

Hope this helps in your  conversations elsewhere.

We know you are a MORON, but you keep on raising your moronic level to unexplored territory.

What the hell are you talking about? Castrating Randle? You mean, King Julius, as I have been calling him since last year?

I think you are better at your main activity, that is licking Trumptins ass clean.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 31, 2022, 04:12:05 PM
Pacino to Spacey in Glengarry -

"YOU CHILD."
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 31, 2022, 09:35:29 PM
You empower Julius by getting him to give and go, pass and pick away, instead of face up and spin. This has not been confusing to anyone for a long time. It also has not gotten done.

Is he ready for a master class in franchise cornerstoning? He could certainly use one. There is a lot to build on there.

What are Tom and Leon wanting to accomplish in the remaining time this team is together this season?
Title: from Chamaco to ChamAAco
Post by: carlos123 on March 31, 2022, 09:44:46 PM
Quote from: chamAAcocartero8 on March 31, 2022, 04:12:05 PM
Pacino to Spacey in Glengarry -

"YOU CHILD."

Carlos to ChamAAco on Escape from Elba-

"YOU SILLY OLD FART."
Title: Commitment
Post by: chipstern on March 31, 2022, 10:02:45 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 31, 2022, 09:35:29 PM
You empower Julius by getting him to give and go, pass and pick away, instead of face up and spin. This has not been confusing to anyone for a long time. It also has not gotten done.

Is he ready for a master class in franchise cornerstoning? He could certainly use one. There is a lot to build on there.

What are Tom and Leon wanting to accomplish in the remaining time this team is together this season?

Seems like it's 50/50 vis a vis JR's future as a Knick. 

If a deal came along that made sense, sure...

But at this juncture in our team's evolutiuon, the team would be dealing from weakness, not strength. 

There IS a lot to build on.

We have a lot of ending contracts next season.  We have a lot of reshuffling to do.  CHALLENGING. 

Burks, Taj and maybe [MAYBE] Rose are keepers.  Hard to see Thibs going forward without his guys. 

What is the likelihood we could get teams to take the likes of Noel or Kemba off of our hands.  We'd have to take back contracts, so...a wash. 

As per Facil's trade scenario, Fournier has value, for sure.  A keeper or trade bait?  He has improved through the course of this season. 

But the Rockets? 

Fournier? 

PG Kevin Porter is 21.

SG Jalen Green is 20. 

On Wednesday night against the Kings, Porter in 38 minutes notched 30-12-12, while Green was 32-2-2 in 37 minutes. 

Fournier was 10-16, 6-8 from trey for, 30-4-1 in 35 minutes.

Evan will be 30 in October. 

Pretty cut and dried it seems. 

Can Julius work on his game and his conditioning and his mental approach in the offseason? 

Sure can.

WE SHALL SEE.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 01, 2022, 12:19:19 AM
With two long athletic guys manning the starting guard spots Fournier can spread the floor and play passing lanes defensively while checking the slowest perimeter player when he is on the floor. If you do not need much positional defense and can excuse the occasional brain fart, he is an accomplished player.

I do not really mind him as a reserve for us next year if we cannot find a deal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on April 01, 2022, 12:45:04 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 01, 2022, 12:19:19 AM
With two long athletic guys manning the starting guard spots Fournier can spread the floor and play passing lanes defensively while checking the slowest perimeter player when he is on the floor. If you do not need much positional defense and can excuse the occasional brain fart, he is an accomplished player.

I do not really mind him as a reserve for us next year if we cannot find a deal.

I like the fact that he owns his brain farts.  Never avoided the hard questions, regarding his struggles or that of the team. 

We missed the PlayIn. 

So it goes.  I like that we have competed, and we saw certain players maturing into their roles, and defining their niche, such as RJ, Burks, IQ and Mitchell.  PROGRESS. 

I thought your analysis of Julius raison d'tare was fair and balanced and CORRECT.  Whatever he did the summer of 2020, he needs to revisit and double down on.  I don't think his conditioning coming into 2021 was where it should have been. 

Be that as it may, more than conditioning, a re-exam of how to play offense.  Obi emerging as a template.  Nothing JR cannot do physically but the mental aspect...and again, THIBS needs to push him in this direction. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on April 01, 2022, 12:52:19 AM
One doesn't have to blame Randle or blame Thibs to think they're not good together.

I don't think they're good together.

The idea that this will change because Julius will train hard over the summer?

That's a reach.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 01, 2022, 09:59:28 AM
What are Tom and Leon wanting to accomplish in the remaining time this team is together this season?


Good question

McBride should start, right?

Unless they have already made up their mind on his limitations.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 01, 2022, 10:02:15 AM
Quote from: elephant on April 01, 2022, 12:52:19 AM
One doesn't have to blame Randle or blame Thibs to think they're not good together.

I don't think they're good together.

The idea that this will change because Julius will train hard over the summer?

That's a reach.

I dont mind if we deal Randle for value.

I alsso do not discount that it could work if they bring him back.

Work, Leon.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on April 01, 2022, 12:18:55 PM
I'm okay with any options predicated on the idea:

The way we've been using Randle does not work.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 01, 2022, 02:27:40 PM
The old way or the news way?  Knicks have won 9 of 14.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on April 01, 2022, 03:26:33 PM
Oy veh.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 01, 2022, 07:33:44 PM
Mo Bomba cant play - Yankguy said so

https://www.nba.com/player/1628964
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 01, 2022, 07:45:23 PM
OMG - this changes everything

https://hoopshype.com/2022/04/01/ben-simmons-resumes-light-training-and-hopes-to-return-by-the-playoffs/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 01, 2022, 07:47:25 PM
 You empower Julius by getting him to give and go, pass and pick away, instead of face up and spin. This has not been confusing to anyone for a long time. It also has not gotten done.


You are either a moron or have not been  watching the games

I will assume the latter
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 01, 2022, 08:12:14 PM
So the rumor is Zion for Randle?

I guess.......

But I think Knicks may be getting Davis.
Title: Chamaco now has a thing for Fac
Post by: carlos123 on April 01, 2022, 10:40:43 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on April 01, 2022, 07:47:25 PM
You empower Julius by getting him to give and go, pass and pick away, instead of face up and spin. This has not been confusing to anyone for a long time. It also has not gotten done.


You are either a moron or have not been  watching the games

I will assume the latter

Quote from: carlos on March 29, 2022, 04:52:14 PM
Also, both Chamaco and ChamAAco agree with you re. Burks. That must make you very, very happy.

Chamaco used to be in love with Chip.

Then he had a thing for Les, but it did not last long.

Now he is all in on Fac.

Lucky you, Fac!

Will you give him some of your weed when he visits you in San Diego?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 02, 2022, 09:09:03 AM
https://dailyknicks.com/2022/03/31/recent-espn-mock-draft-new-york-knicks-selecting-g-league-ignite-standout/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 02, 2022, 03:29:00 PM
I would give Archie a roster spot before Kemba or Noel.

RJ needs to figure out how to never ever have a game like this again. If he does, it will have been a good lesson.

Just a few more to go.

Obi w a new high again.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 02, 2022, 06:48:43 PM
Noel stays

Deal with it
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 02, 2022, 07:47:16 PM
I agree there is no conceivable market for Noel.

He is just not built for this NBA thing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on April 02, 2022, 09:53:14 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 02, 2022, 03:29:00 PM

RJ needs to figure out how to never ever have a game like this again. If he does, it will have been a good lesson.


Yeah that was really woeful. The defensive end bothered me even more than the offense. Hopefully it was a one-off.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 03, 2022, 08:41:45 AM
The lesson may be to those who want RJ as lead dog.

Consistency not always easy to find.

Might be a cog in a Big 3.  Davis, Barrett and ???

(or d we need to use Barrett to get Davis?)

I think Lakers could be pretty darn good if you gave them Robinson and Burks plus one/two others.

McBride
Fournier
Barrett
Randle
A Davis
Title: HaHaHa
Post by: chipstern on April 03, 2022, 02:30:45 PM
Anthony Davis?

Now there's a brilliant scenario. 

Continuing the Knicks unparalled track record for pursuing damaged goods. 

Davis is an immense talent, alas....

Makes Nerlens Noel Look Like Cal Ripkin. 

Maybe we can get the Lakers to toss in Kelenna Azubuike as a sweetner. 
Title: Rookie Of The Year
Post by: chipstern on April 03, 2022, 04:10:58 PM
Evan Mobley & Cade Cunningham

Impactful

But to me, it's SCOTTIE BARNES. 

(https://www.tsn.ca/polopoly_fs/1.1713666.1635561454!/fileimage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_620/scottie-barnes.jpg)

I mean, I would sell my mother to ISIS for Scottie to be in a Knick Uniform. 

PS: Fortuneately, my mother is a ghost, and confirms that she is willing to indulge my phantasy. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on April 03, 2022, 04:30:16 PM
I pay my respects to your wise and accommodating mother.

As for this constant dissing of Noel, it's starting to border on madness.

Fac, you realize how crappy our defense has been this year, right? You saw the last game, for instance, right?

Noel had nothing to do with that!

You want to complain about his injuries or his limited offensive game? Cool. But he's got precious little to do with why we've sucked this year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 03, 2022, 06:35:40 PM
Rookies, you say?


https://www.nba.com/news/kia-rookie-ladder-march-30-edition





 

GIDDEY is the best player moving forward, though Barnes,  SUGGS and Cunningham will make statements.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 03, 2022, 06:54:35 PM
Free agent watch:


https://hoopshype.com/lists/free-agency-stock-watch-deandre-ayton-jalen-brunson-and-more/


Ayton stock down?   Talk to me in  a month.
Title: Back in a month
Post by: carlos123 on April 03, 2022, 09:21:15 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on April 03, 2022, 06:54:35 PM
Free agent watch:


https://hoopshype.com/lists/free-agency-stock-watch-deandre-ayton-jalen-brunson-and-more/


Ayton stock down?   Talk to me in  a month.

And who do you want to talk to you in a month, dear Chamaco? Les? Chip? me? Fac?
What are you doing until then? Are you going to wait right here?
Or are you taking a leave of absence from the Knicks forum?
Oh, so many questions!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 04, 2022, 12:37:06 AM
That was refreshing.

Orlando brings out the best in most opponents

We have got to pay Mitch

Quickley w the twenty point triple-double.

Quickley, RJ, Burks, Deuce, and Grimes make for a nice, energetic, skilled, and dangerous backcourt.

I thinking I will mainly enjoy the last couple of outings from this squad.

I am curious how we move our dead weight this offseason.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 04, 2022, 08:04:45 AM
Burks 19-7-6   +44

But it was a minor league team - no matter
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on April 04, 2022, 01:18:45 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on April 04, 2022, 08:04:45 AM
Burks 19-7-6   +44

But it was a minor league team - no matter

No matter? 

Like your assertion that Deuce McBride was running up dubious stats against G Leaguers, and we should pay it no mind. 

NO MATTER
Title: Dawg Pounding
Post by: chipstern on April 04, 2022, 01:21:28 PM
Ben Simmons ruled out of play-in. 

Ah yes. 

A gift which keeps giving. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on April 04, 2022, 02:19:33 PM
rofl...

You know what this is about right?

Getting Ben Simmons the $20 mil the Sixers refused to give him.

If he had popped right into a Nets uniform, it would be easier to say his oh-so terrible mental and physical problems were not really real.

The longer he stays out, the stronger he believes his claims will be.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/33652726/sources-brooklyn-nets-ben-simmons-files-grievance-nearly-20-million-withheld-philadelphia-76ers (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/33652726/sources-brooklyn-nets-ben-simmons-files-grievance-nearly-20-million-withheld-philadelphia-76ers)

This fuck only cares about $$. Nothing else.

Does not give a shit about a championship, about basketball, about anything, lol...huge loser type, hasn't gotten 1% better in any aspect of his game since he first entered the league, could care less...just happy we stayed away.
Title: Re: Dawg Pounding
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 04, 2022, 05:57:26 PM
Quote from: chipstern on April 04, 2022, 01:21:28 PM
Ben Simmons ruled out of play-in. 

Ah yes. 

A gift which keeps giving.

Will it really matter?  Teams lining up to NOT play Brooklyn.
Title: Really?
Post by: carlos123 on April 05, 2022, 01:04:45 AM
Quote from: chamAAcocartero8 on April 04, 2022, 05:57:26 PM
Quote from: chipstern on April 04, 2022, 01:21:28 PM
Ben Simmons ruled out of play-in. 

Ah yes. 

A gift which keeps giving.

Will it really matter?  Teams lining up to NOT play Brooklyn.

And WHO told you? Bet you have good sources 🤪
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 05, 2022, 02:46:36 PM
The Brooklyn Nyets will need a lot of luck to get out of the play in, most of it involving dodging Cleveland.
Title: Steve Nash to Ben Simmons every night...
Post by: lesterluv on April 05, 2022, 07:33:29 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FPhW4prWQAcZmK7?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 05, 2022, 11:01:36 PM
I heard the Bucks or somebody picked up Luca Vildoza.
Title: Luca
Post by: chipstern on April 05, 2022, 11:54:30 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 05, 2022, 11:01:36 PM
I heard the Bucks or somebody picked up Luca Vildoza.

Yup. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 06, 2022, 08:55:08 AM
SUGGS, Bomba and Fultz 17-31 vs Cavs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 06, 2022, 08:56:18 AM
Sengun and Green 17-34 vs Nets

Kyrie - ahem...    42.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 06, 2022, 08:58:50 AM
On to Philly

Harden 14 assists - took just ten shots.   Getting his playoff look ready.

Maxey has THIRTY on just 12 shots.

I still think they may miss Curry.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 06, 2022, 09:08:10 AM
So....MVP

Embiid (new scoring leader over LeBron) or Jokic? 

And is Ja Morant really out of the top 5?


Minnesota at Memphis round one will be awesome if it goes that way.  7 v 8 game in West is to avoid Phoenix.










 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on April 06, 2022, 10:33:11 AM
Embid, imho...kept that train rolling all season long despite the assumption that the Sixers were F'd. Can't argue with the other guy tho...

The trouble with Morant in the conversation? The Grizz played even better when he wasn't in the lineup.
Title: Fin Nyets
Post by: carlos123 on April 06, 2022, 07:27:59 PM
Like everybody else, I know we are going to lose this one....

.... But wouldnt it be SWEET to beat the Fin Nyets!
Title: First Half
Post by: carlos123 on April 06, 2022, 09:20:10 PM
Not sure we can keep it up in the Second, but wasnt it fun in the First?

And to top it off, Chamacos favorite Krazy Kyrie with a -12.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 06, 2022, 09:21:40 PM
No Cam tonight?
Title: Wow
Post by: chipstern on April 06, 2022, 09:29:13 PM
🖤💣🖤💣🖤
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 06, 2022, 10:04:41 PM
Shoulda used Deuce I guess

Heh
Title: Re: Wow
Post by: chipstern on April 06, 2022, 10:06:19 PM
Quote from: chipstern on April 06, 2022, 09:29:13 PM
🖤💣🖤💣🖤

Bow
Wow
Title: Mr. heh (and lol) strikes YET again #43,846
Post by: carlos123 on April 06, 2022, 10:13:11 PM
Quote from: chamAAcocartero8 on April 06, 2022, 10:04:41 PM
Shoulda used Deuce I guess

Heh

Ok, very disappointing Second Half and especially the 4th Q. Not a surprise though.
But at least we have Chamaco/ChamAAco gifting us with one of his Hehs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on April 06, 2022, 10:18:18 PM
Interesting game.

To repeat the mantra that I used to say every week until I was sick of saying it: We need a point guard. And you never need it more than in last half of the 4th quarter. Tonight it was painful to see the ball given away again and again. And the lack of a cool leader on the court.

Bad time for IQ to come out flat...and stay flat. Surprised Thibs stayed with him. Meanwhile Barrett's juxtaposition to two actual all-stars seemed unfortunate. He's not there yet.

On the flip side, cool to watch how active Sims is. Had a sequence of plays in some three minutes (was it the Third Quarter?) that were fabulous.

And Obi. The dude has a lot of tricks and the capacity to do anything. How long did we waste simply having him stand in the corner and get the occasional dunk? He can play. Next year, give the man something to do on offense and "permission" to exert his will.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 06, 2022, 10:58:18 PM
That sucked. We would have the seventh seed if we could hit free throws at a professional clip.

Fuck the Nyets. May they lose everything.

Two more games where Thibs barely goes seven deep.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on April 07, 2022, 04:39:27 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 06, 2022, 10:58:18 PM
That sucked. We would have the seventh seed if we could hit free throws at a professional clip.

Fuck the Nyets. May they lose everything.

Two more games where Thibs barely goes seven deep.

Thibs, huh?

JR
Rose
Reddish
Grimes
Mitchell

All out for fuck's sake.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 07, 2022, 12:50:05 PM
McBride went in with a sore Knee that held him to six minutes.

I could have stood for some Archie, if only for his fresh legs and clear head.

Water under the bridge now.
Title: Thibs&Fac
Post by: carlos123 on April 07, 2022, 03:01:41 PM
Quote from: Fac on April 07, 2022, 12:50:05 PM
McBride went in with a sore Knee that held him to six minutes.

I could have stood for some Archie, if only for his fresh legs and clear head.

Water under the bridge now.

Thibs does not believe in fresh legs and clear heads.
That is why I want you to replace him.

PS. Now that Judge Jackson has been confirmed, I suppose I should find another quote from the Repulsive Ted. Any suggestions? Chamaco?
Title: WhatTheActualFuck????
Post by: chipstern on April 07, 2022, 03:12:16 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on April 07, 2022, 03:01:41 PM
Quote from: Fac on April 07, 2022, 12:50:05 PM
McBride went in with a sore Knee that held him to six minutes.

I could have stood for some Archie, if only for his fresh legs and clear head.

Water under the bridge now.

Thibs does not believe in fresh legs and clear heads.
That is why I want you to replace him.

WOW

What the actual fuck are you talking about?  

JR
Rose
Reddish
Grimes
Robinson
[NOEL]  I forgot about him.
[WALKER] In absentia/exile

UnoDosTresQuatroCincoSeisSiete
McBride, ostensibly has a tender knee. 

So that leaves Arcidiacono. 

Not sure if our newest two-way, Feron Hunt, is even on the roster. 

Your negative narrative is nattering nonsense. 
Title: Lotto
Post by: chipstern on April 07, 2022, 03:30:01 PM
Houston:          20-60
Orlando:           21-59
Detroit:            23-57
OKC:                24-56
Indiana:           25-55
Portland:          27-52
Sacramento:     29-51
LA Lakers:        31-48
San Antonio:     34-45
New Orleans:    35-44
Washington:     35-44
New York:         35-44
LA Clippers:      40-40
Charlotte:         40-39

We have highlighted the scrum from 9-12, to give Forum Handicapper FACIL something to root for, that is to say, two more losses. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 07, 2022, 03:35:44 PM
So a playoff team can be in the lottery?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on April 07, 2022, 03:59:04 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on April 07, 2022, 03:35:44 PM
So a playoff team can be in the lottery?

Bottom 14 is how it's been since man first walked erect. 
Title: Lets be positive then
Post by: carlos123 on April 07, 2022, 05:17:08 PM
Quote from: chipstern on April 07, 2022, 03:12:16 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on April 07, 2022, 03:01:41 PM
Quote from: Fac on April 07, 2022, 12:50:05 PM
McBride went in with a sore Knee that held him to six minutes.

I could have stood for some Archie, if only for his fresh legs and clear head.

Water under the bridge now.

Thibs does not believe in fresh legs and clear heads.
That is why I want you to replace him.

WOW

What the actual fuck are you talking about?  

JR
Rose
Reddish
Grimes
Robinson
[NOEL]  I forgot about him.
[WALKER] In absentia/exile

UnoDosTresQuatroCincoSeisSiete
McBride, ostensibly has a tender knee. 

So that leaves Arcidiacono. 

Not sure if our newest two-way, Feron Hunt, is even on the roster. 

Your negative narrative is nattering nonsense.

Ok, so what about you find me a juicy quote from Repulsive Ted to replace the outdated one about the 6% of the population?
Title: HUH?
Post by: chipstern on April 07, 2022, 05:35:24 PM
Ok, so what about you find me a juicy quote from Repulsive Ted to replace the outdated one about the 6% of the population?

(https://us.v-cdn.net/6025736/uploads/editor/1m/ibbzh698vsiw.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 07, 2022, 05:58:58 PM
I reaLly think Archie could have helped keep the lid on.

Oh well. Every ping pong ball is a help now, as Chip was kind enough to point out.
Title: Re: HUH?
Post by: carlos123 on April 07, 2022, 09:03:09 PM
Quote from: chipstern on April 07, 2022, 05:35:24 PM
Ok, so what about you find me a juicy quote from Repulsive Ted to replace the outdated one about the 6% of the population?

(https://us.v-cdn.net/6025736/uploads/editor/1m/ibbzh698vsiw.gif)

Repulsive Ted is Ted Cruz, as you can see in my avatar.
The quote I have there was the first line of attack by Repulsive Ted against the nomination of Ketanji Brown Jackson, explaining to all of us that, since Black women are only 6 percent of the U.S. population, they do not deserve representation.
Since Judge Jackson is now confirmed to become Justice Jackson, that quote from Repulsive Ted is no longer relevant. Thus I need a new one, but I do not really follow his many repulsive musings, so I first asked for Chamacos help, and then thought you may also have come across some other juicy repulsive quote. One never knows, do one?
Capice?
Jeeeezus, do I have to explain EVERYTHING?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 07, 2022, 10:35:54 PM
Celtics hit TWENTY ONE THREES

And lose.

Bucks look near unbeatable.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 07, 2022, 10:45:24 PM
Nice to see Luke Kornet get some run. Shame it is with the Celtics.

Bucks are a fun team, now they have traded away DiVinchenzo. I hope they stick around to the end.
Title: Cruz Control
Post by: chipstern on April 08, 2022, 06:04:29 AM
"I tend to listen to country music more than Cuban music."
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 08, 2022, 12:20:58 PM
Nice dime, Chip. More proof of your perpetual pocketness.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on April 08, 2022, 03:07:25 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 08, 2022, 12:20:58 PM
Nice dime, Chip. More proof of your perpetual pocketness.

(https://c.tenor.com/NY1iWG7Je1QAAAAM/well-said.gif)
Title: Re: Cruz Control
Post by: carlos123 on April 08, 2022, 03:16:34 PM
Quote from: chipstern on April 08, 2022, 06:04:29 AM
"I tend to listen to country music more than Cuban music."

Thanks Chip. I had to cut the "tend to" because Elba will not allow long siggies. Nice quote though, very much tuned to Teds Repulsive character.

PS. Chamaco was useless, as is his norm.
Title: Re: Cruz Control
Post by: chipstern on April 08, 2022, 03:20:59 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on April 08, 2022, 03:16:34 PM
Quote from: chipstern on April 08, 2022, 06:04:29 AM
"I tend to listen to country music more than Cuban music."

Thanks Chip. I had to cut the "tend to" because Elba will not allow long siggies. Nice quote though, very much tuned to Teds Repulsive character.

PS. Chamaco was useless, as is his norm.

https://nypost.com/2022/04/07/ted-cruz-reveals-he-loves-tesla-fart-noise-feature-while-touting-musks-twitter-buy/ (https://nypost.com/2022/04/07/ted-cruz-reveals-he-loves-tesla-fart-noise-feature-while-touting-musks-twitter-buy/)
Title: Word From A Turd
Post by: chipstern on April 08, 2022, 03:29:54 PM
(https://scontent-lga3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/277743540_297197369256334_649630726395162931_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=3HtlQcyNLqoAX9XhWci&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-2.xx&oh=00_AT8fngP2XezgeDNz_-MopF_jHtxyCKCJkOqqIywtWyAAYA&oe=62566A84)
Title: Kiid's Significant Other
Post by: chipstern on April 08, 2022, 03:42:25 PM
(https://scontent-lga3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/278181425_10209372442504214_6123589446793348928_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=7Cq7vs7aOgkAX9fJNTS&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-2.xx&oh=00_AT-EBXYUVOV2-jBEPhVhQaslUNyrMD7TgBnd2Rmqt1vATg&oe=6254AF3E)
Title: Re: Word From A Turd
Post by: carlos123 on April 08, 2022, 07:25:01 PM
Quote from: chipstern on April 08, 2022, 03:29:54 PM
(https://scontent-lga3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/277743540_297197369256334_649630726395162931_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=3HtlQcyNLqoAX9XhWci&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-2.xx&oh=00_AT8fngP2XezgeDNz_-MopF_jHtxyCKCJkOqqIywtWyAAYA&oe=62566A84)

Hey, you do know what it says on the right side, dont you?
GILIPOLLAS PRESIDENTE
XLV
ESTAMOS JODIDOS

LMAO, do you need translation?
Title: Obi
Post by: chipstern on April 08, 2022, 08:27:46 PM
💣💣💣💣💣
Title: Re: Obi
Post by: chipstern on April 08, 2022, 09:24:42 PM
Quote from: chipstern on April 08, 2022, 08:27:46 PM
💣💣💣💣💣

Obi!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on April 08, 2022, 11:16:51 PM
always loved the kid..god given touch ...now UNLEASHED

* my fios went out this afternoon, lol, have to be satisfied with the twitter vids

** gotta give something up to Mr. Thibs, while all of us were howling with Obi stationed at the three point line, maybe he just realized how that would complete him, and how he would eventually get it

*** gotta tell Mr. Thibs, if Obi's still stuck on the bench after the first Julius pout or lazy runback, the Garden gonna start howling so loud the walls will shake and it will never, ever stop.....that is, if Julius is here, ....


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 09, 2022, 02:59:26 PM
I think Obi and Quick at the 4 and 1 respectively have proven to be worthwhile parts of the equation. Quickley has penciled himself in for 30 ish minutes and Obi can do the same with a little defensive development.

RJ hit 20 ppg and 3 apg in a seemingly down year.

All the guys who need to go except Noel look like functional NBA players based on their stats which may help move them.

UFAs of interest: the Martin in Charlotte, Gary Payton III, Bruce Brown, Jalen Brunson, Tyus Jones. There are also a passel of skilled pivots who can shoot.

Dyson, Matherin, Eason in the draft if we do not move up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 09, 2022, 05:00:31 PM
INGRAM!!!


https://www.inquisitr.com/10005291/nba-rumors-proposed-knicks-pelicans-trade-sends-brandon-ingram-
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 09, 2022, 05:06:14 PM
Sure. Do that, resign Mitch and draft TyTy. I would go for it.
Title: Overpaying For Shiny Objects--The Eternal Douchebaggery Of Knicks Fans
Post by: chipstern on April 09, 2022, 05:55:06 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 09, 2022, 05:00:31 PM
INGRAM!!!


https://www.inquisitr.com/10005291/nba-rumors-proposed-knicks-pelicans-trade-sends-brandon-ingram-

HORSESHIT ON THE HALF SHELL

The endless pursuit of shiny objects. 

So, just as IQ is starting get it in rhythm, developing a significant rapport with Obi; much as RJ is helping rev up the pace and tempo of motion and ball movement, by all means, let's sunder the chemistry we spent all motherfucking season working to achieve and get behind the first of many ludicrous blog-o-slog phantasy trades.  Oh, and toss in draft capital to boot. 

If we had gotten behind such nonsense, Obi would have been traded by now. 

Did I happen to mention that y'all can go fuck yourselves?

Nah, that would be ill-tempered of me. 

I mean, why not develop what we have invested time and blood in.  IQ?  Obi?  RJ? Significant uptick since the allstar break.  CAM REDDISH.  Was starting to hit his stride when he got hurt.  Who's to say he couldn't be of a piece with Ingram? 

Okay, a tier or so below. 

Feel free to debate and denounce such a notion.  Still, he already has chemistry with fellow Dukie, RJ, which is just screaming to be developed. 

Here's why I offer a hearty fuck you to such simplistic reasoning. 

Our mega-trades have largely blown up in our face in the past. 

And because our army of Trader Vics always sees the grass as greener, and largely overlooks the issue of...

CHEMISTRY

And the ripple effect of messing with chemistry. 

We swapped out Walker and Fournier for Payton and Bullock. 

Dawg has eviscerated me for drawing this line in the sand, still, here it is once again [PS: THe ripple effect of losing Rose was catastrophic on a Global Warming level].

We swapped out defense for offense in replacing Elfrid and Reggie with Kemba and Evan. 

Not only did they fail to mesh smoothly from the start, not only was Kemba an EZ Pass Lane on the defensive end, but it fundamentally sundered the progress Julius made last season, not to overlook that Elfrid and Reggie were Randle's friends.  Do NOT poohpooh that.  We saw the impact of freidnship and chemistry blossom last night in the person of IQ and Obi.  We saw the impact of PATIENCE blossom last night in the person of IQ and Obi.  Julius' numbers might have been roughly commensurate with last season's, but his consistency was sundered, and his head was clealry in a different place [roughly paralleling the placement of his prostate]. 

In any event, remains to be seen if Julius is part of our future. 

But we have seen significant growth from IQ, Obi and RJ, so by all means let's trade IQ. 

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/7d/51/87/7d5187fad0dbf03de282143f19a7f80c.gif)
Title: Addendum: We Agree To Disagree
Post by: chipstern on April 09, 2022, 07:23:37 PM
(https://scontent-lga3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.18169-9/1379208_10153396004260788_288652061_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=e3f864&_nc_ohc=DADC-neJgLEAX-DUnhA&_nc_oc=AQmJmTMtCmu8PsVBqLst0NR7al7BKvWqjg-bv7-RtQ3J_TjFnEWvnXcosc4WvdNTNq4&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-2.xx&oh=00_AT-03Csy8mLih2Jx9nwlbZaJ3W8QoRaEJQvqBe9dqul4jA&oe=6275EE82)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on April 09, 2022, 09:41:19 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 09, 2022, 05:00:31 PM
INGRAM!!!


https://www.inquisitr.com/10005291/nba-rumors-proposed-knicks-pelicans-trade-sends-brandon-ingram-

Just the point guard we need!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 09, 2022, 10:33:09 PM
Yeah I pass on that as well, Elephant

Not giving up the sniper after we have finally found one.

SATORANSKY looks like a nice fit.
Title: Obi IQ Jericho
Post by: chipstern on April 10, 2022, 09:20:48 PM
I'm In Tears
Title: Re: Obi IQ Jericho
Post by: carlos123 on April 10, 2022, 09:29:57 PM
Quote from: chipstern on April 10, 2022, 09:20:48 PM
Im In Tears

I just knew you were a sentimental kinda guy 😭

And Chamaco would rather have 30 yo Satoransky than IQ, LMAO, that is Chamaco for u! 🤪
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 10, 2022, 09:31:18 PM
That looked pretty good. Not the worst way to end a loosing season, and I have seen the Knicks lose a few.

We have some playable pieces and some interesting decisions ahead.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on April 10, 2022, 09:49:08 PM
There's a lot of joy in watching Obi.

That's no small thing in the modern NBA.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 10, 2022, 10:26:06 PM
End of Ssason positional pecking order

Mitch Jericho Taj Noel
Obi Randle
RJ Reddish
Grimes Burks Fournier
IQ Rose McBride Archie Walker

We need to flesh out the SF-PF rotation, preferably with a lockdown beast of an athlete who can legit guard four positions.

I feel good about our guards minus Walker and over reliance on Evan. If we keep Mitch, our pivots are a pain in the ass with a lot of room to grow. We have a ton of talent with our power forwards and need a scheme in which they happily co exist.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 11, 2022, 09:18:08 AM
Pre offseason moves we are at


Robinson
Randle
Barrett
Fournier
Quickley/Burks

Just the one battle to start

(assumes a Mitch re-sign)
Title: Analytics
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 11, 2022, 09:23:52 AM
Barrett 8th on team in win shares

Robinson was #1 by far.

Per 48, again - Mitch (Obi second).  Barrett falls to 16th.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 11, 2022, 09:38:17 AM
By the way - DEFENSIVE win shares -

RANDLE first
Mitch
Then BURKS, then FOURNIER

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/NYK/2022.html
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 12, 2022, 11:31:58 AM
So....

who we got tonight?


I have it

NETS

T'WOLVES


Made all my picks

Repeat Finals with a repeat champion (5.5 -1 on Bucks).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 12, 2022, 01:10:26 PM
Cleveland and Minny.

Two deals w Portland.

Noel, Fournier, and Reddish for Bledsoe and Hart

Or

Randle and Reddish for Bledsoe, Hart, and the earlier of their two lotto picks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 12, 2022, 03:35:59 PM
FOURNIER stays
Title: This One Really Hurts
Post by: chipstern on April 12, 2022, 04:42:20 PM
https://www.nbcnews.com/pop-culture/celebrity/gilbert-gottfried-iconic-comedian-dies-67-long-illness-rcna24111 (https://www.nbcnews.com/pop-culture/celebrity/gilbert-gottfried-iconic-comedian-dies-67-long-illness-rcna24111)

(https://scontent-lga3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/278472645_10224038004431913_2735784220081413596_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p843x403&_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=BaQneINBE4MAX_z72bQ&tn=xl05267qLY6AVrGm&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-2.xx&oh=00_AT-Mc0mLiIY81fO7Ovc1yXcHaSHruqXKJF77g1RpY7G4gg&oe=625B3C82)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXo31OBIdUw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXo31OBIdUw)


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 12, 2022, 05:06:28 PM
True dat.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 12, 2022, 09:11:14 PM
Looking like Nets at Celtics.....
Title: TSK [Pronounced tIsk]
Post by: chipstern on April 13, 2022, 04:41:27 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 12, 2022, 01:10:26 PM
Cleveland and Minny.

Two deals w Portland.

Noel, Fournier, and Reddish for Bledsoe and Hart

Or

Randle and Reddish for Bledsoe, Hart, and the earlier of their two lotto picks.

TSK TSK TSK

Bledsoe? SERIOUSLY? Are you looking to stock up on crippled 32 year old PGs.  Do you believe that Derrick Rose is feeling lonely?  What do we do with Grimes and McBride? 

I like Josh Hart.  But call me silly, as I would rather develop Reddish and Grimes, much as we developed RJ and IQ and Obi.

(https://i.gifer.com/origin/51/5139a447e05de7870fb0e10c6c16feef_w200.gif)

Might Dallas be interested in a sign and trade, say, oh, Mitchell and Kemba?  For Brunson? 

Would hate to give up Mitchell. But Brunson is a PG who checks all the boxes:  plays with pace and intensity; defends; good three point shooter; can penetrate and create off the bounce in the midrange, get to the FT line and convert at a high rate [179-213, .840%].  Unlike fucking Bledsoe, he is not a gimp, and turns 26 in August.  Roughly the same size as Deuce [6'1" 180 versus 6'2" 200]. 

Mitchell?  We still have Jericho and Taj, and perhaps Noel.  And it opens the door for Julius to play the 5 with Obi at the 4.  Thibs' concerns about rim protection at the 5?  Is Taj Gibson a rim protector?  He's the same size as JR and Obi.  And was our defacto second string center/power forward for much of the season. 

Don't know if someone like Jalen Duren of Memphis would fall to us, but Duke's Mark Williams or Auburn's Walker Kessler or Jaylin Williams of Arkansas or Christian Koloko of Arizona should all be there at #12 or available lower down the food chain in an IQ/Grimes styled trade down or slipping intot he second round.  Let alone raw Mitchell like African projects such as Kenturcky's Oscar Tshiebwe or Ibou Dianko Badji of Bareclona.

It is a very deep draft for centers.  Fairly lean for PGs. 
I'm not anticipating that the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob is going to allow Leon Rose to move up to the top 4 for a shot at Chet Holmgren. 

We looked interesting the final five games as Jericho, RJ, Obi and IQ were playing with a lot more PACE.  I do believe Julius would benefit from greater motion and pace, as you have pointed out, so it's not standing on the perimeter waiting with no movement for a pass, so he can begin his step back war dance. 

You seem enchanted with spare parts.

If we are going to offload Fournier and Rededish, or Randle and Reddish, Josh Hart is a pretty meager return.  DUMPING JULIUS, let alone Fournier, seems imprudent. 

PS: Once again, you project someone just wily nily giving us a Top 4 lottery pick.  Dream a little dream for me. 

PPS: My own phantasy, if we could not work a deal for Brunson, would involve starting Quick, keeping Rose for at least the one more year on the 2 +1/Option we are committed to him, developing McBride, retain Burks, and let Jokubaitis play one more year in Spain, before bringing him over in the summer of 2023.  Maybe pick up a competent third string in case of busted PGs, break glass/emergency vet, like an Ish Smith, or Satoransky. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 13, 2022, 06:12:20 PM
I am look at Bledsoe as a way to get Fournier off the books and Noel or to get Randle off the books. Play him or not.

Hart is a more accomplished player than Reddish, who has more potential and comes at half the price.

Hart now is better than Fournier or Reddish are now.

We would be looking at RJ Hart Grimes and Burks as our experienced wings.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on April 13, 2022, 06:59:09 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 13, 2022, 06:12:20 PM
I am look at Bledsoe as a way to get Fournier off the books and Noel or to get Randle off the books. Play him or not.

Hart is a more accomplished player than Reddish, who has more potential and comes at half the price.

Hart now is better than Fournier or Reddish are now.

We would be looking at RJ Hart Grimes and Burks as our experienced wings.

There are better ways to deploy our resources. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 13, 2022, 10:19:16 PM
I am look at Bledsoe as a way to get Fournier off the books




Racist.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 14, 2022, 10:52:48 AM
Pels look real tough - could they take it in LA?

Team on the rise, I guess - with what they will get for dealing Willamson.

We are IN on that if there are talks, right?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 14, 2022, 01:51:40 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on April 13, 2022, 10:19:16 PM
I am look at Bledsoe as a way to get Fournier off the books




Racist.

I am prejudiced against flat footed defenders and players who space out on both ends at key moments. For those reasons I may never give Ev a fair shake. Green, pink or blue, he is overpaid for what he does.

Fortunately we have Archie to fill in any gaps he might leave in our backcourt.

It is good your projector is still working despite how often you get your dick stub stuck in the reel to reel.
Title: Chamaco's musings
Post by: carlos123 on April 14, 2022, 03:17:46 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 14, 2022, 01:51:40 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on April 13, 2022, 10:19:16 PM
I am look at Bledsoe as a way to get Fournier off the books


Racist.

I am prejudiced against flat footed defenders and players who space out on both ends at key moments. For those reasons I may never give Ev a fair shake. Green, pink or blue, he is overpaid for what he does.

Fortunately we have Archie to fill in any gaps he might leave in our backcourt.

It is good your projector is still working despite how often you get your dick stub stuck in the reel to reel.

Fac, you really do not need to pay attention to the musings of Chamaco. He is just desperate for the attention he does not get at home, or at work for that matter, and he is also a proud white boy.

That being said, I like Fournier, though I could  be tempted to dump him if the offering was worth it.

But NOT for the offerings you concocted, sorry. Like I mentioned before, I want you coaching the Knicks in some capacity, but certainly NOT having a voice in trades. The stuff you grow is surely very, very good, but not conducive to making deals for the team.

PS. Hey, I got an apostrophe in the Subject. Like Chip would say, PROGRESS!
Title: Re: Chamaco's musings
Post by: chipstern on April 14, 2022, 06:03:09 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on April 14, 2022, 03:17:46 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 14, 2022, 01:51:40 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on April 13, 2022, 10:19:16 PM
I am look at Bledsoe as a way to get Fournier off the books


Racist.

I am prejudiced against flat footed defenders and players who space out on both ends at key moments. For those reasons I may never give Ev a fair shake. Green, pink or blue, he is overpaid for what he does.

Fortunately we have Archie to fill in any gaps he might leave in our backcourt.

It is good your projector is still working despite how often you get your dick stub stuck in the reel to reel.

Fac, you really do not need to pay attention to the musings of Chamaco. He is just desperate for the attention he does not get at home, or at work for that matter, and he is also a proud white boy.

That being said, I like Fournier, though I could  be tempted to dump him if the offering was worth it.

But NOT for the offerings you concocted, sorry. Like I mentioned before, I want you coaching the Knicks in some capacity, but certainly NOT having a voice in trades. The stuff you grow is surely very, very good, but not conducive to making deals for the team.

PS. Hey, I got an apostrophe in the Subject. Like Chip would say, PROGRESS!

Fac, I understand your issues with Fournier, though I do not agree.  Apparently Thibs is good with his man on man D, but has problems with his team D. 

I am more of a piece with Simon Bolivar, regarding listening to offers for Evan. 

But, I mean, TO WASTE A ROSTER SPOT ON ERIC BLEDSOE, when you were having shit conniptions about how much time Nerlens Noel spent on IR.  And considering that we practically STOLE Reddish from the Hawks.  I mean, 6'8", long wing span, athletic, good defender, can nail the three, score off the bounce and finish at the hoop. 

WE DON'T HAVE ANOTHER WING ON THE ROSTER with Cam's combination of height, length, tempo and athleticism.  SAVE FOR OBI. 

We already have Burks, RJ, Grimes, IQ, Deuce, Rose...remains to be seen if Archie sticks, like him though I do.  And given your obsession to lose Evan's salary, you create further redundancies in the back court, take minutes away from Grimes [and Burks] to give to Hart, and add the earthly remains of Bledsoe's ghost.  Again, I like Hart, but I would rather continue apace with the evolution of Grimes and RJ and Reddish. 

And again, FUCK BLEDSOE.  Are you really suggesting that we do to IQ/Deuce what we routinely did EVERY YEAR to Ntilikina, where we stifled any possibility he might develop rhythm and confidence, by making him sit on the bench and watch Jarret Jack, Emmanuel Mudiay, etcetera.  They have earned minutes, and we saw FIRST HAND what IQ and Obi could do with actual floor time with which to work out the kinks and stretch their games.  I should like to see what Cam and Grimes could do with similar nurturing and experience. 

Why am I obsessing over chin music? 

We are two months and change away from the draft and summer league.  And then another three months till autumn and the 2022-23 NBA season rolls around. 

I am in accord with Brother Bolivar regarding your analysis of style of play, which is pretty spot on, but find your Trader Vic modus operandi, fanciful at best [as when your presuppose teams giving us back a lottery pick], reckless at worst.  Okay you want to offload Fournier.  I could be persuaded of that, particulary to open up minutes for Grimes...but Josh Hart?  FUCK JOSH HART. 

Again, it's only chin music, but I am hoping we continue to nurse our youth, build like a small market team, and avoid the allure of shiny objects and quick fixes. 

I think we are going to make a run at Brunson in the offseason, but I would be SHOCKED if Dallas let's him walk. HEY, maybe Dallas would be tempted for some sort of deal centered around Fournier-Brunson? 

Be that as it may, I found The QAnon Kiid's invocation of racism as unbalanced and fanciful as the notion of Marjorie Taylor Greene and Lauren Boebert engaged in a threesome with Frank "Not Jesse" James. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 14, 2022, 06:24:52 PM
That being said, I like Fournier, though I could  be tempted to dump him if the offering was worth it.


Well said, Los.
Title: Hey Chip aka Elijah
Post by: carlos123 on April 14, 2022, 07:32:15 PM
Thank you for bestowing on me the honor of calling me Simon Bolivar.

To reciprocate, I am naming you Elijah, who became my favorite Prophet when I started getting invited to Passover Dinners and was allowed to drink his wine, in addition to mine.

(https://s3.amazonaws.com/assets.saam.media/files/styles/x_large/s3/files/images/1986/SAAM-1986.65.294_2.jpg?itok=C852ooDV)
Title: Zion
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 15, 2022, 07:25:17 AM
https://www.nbaanalysis.net/2022/04/13/nba-trade-rumors-zion-williamson-new-york-knicks-new-orleans-pelicans/

4 first rounders plus Obi and Burks?

Why?
Title: Re: Zion
Post by: chipstern on April 15, 2022, 11:51:33 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 15, 2022, 07:25:17 AM
https://www.nbaanalysis.net/2022/04/13/nba-trade-rumors-zion-williamson-new-york-knicks-new-orleans-pelicans/

4 first rounders plus Obi and Burks?

Why?

Hardly A RUMOR. 

More like a bunch of dipshits jerking off into some used Kleenex around a camp fire. 

LAME

Thanks for sharing.  Got the blood flowing.  Too bad the author has none going to the vestigial remains of his brain. 

I mean, seeing Zion slam dunking in recent Pelicans videos is as inspiring as eyeballing Gentle Ben Simmons cheer on his Nyets from the bench. 

Be still my fucking heart. 

By all means, let's trade either RJ or Obi PLUS all of our draft capital for the ghost of Greg Oden, a 300 + pound Led ZeppoLean, who missed the entire season, cannot stay on the court and is in lousy physical condition.  More a farce of nature than a force of nature at this point.  SHINY OBJECTS.  I object, your honor. 

PS: Zion should go great with Eric Bledsoe and Josh Hart. 
Title: CAVS
Post by: chipstern on April 15, 2022, 08:12:05 PM
Like everyone on the CAVS. 

My rooting interest. 

Watching Rondo, it occurs to me that Rajon is a point guard, whereas Kemba is a lead guard. 

Garland and Quickley are hybrids, and have to get more experience. Scoring don't always mean shooting. 

Fuck Satoransky and Bledsoe.  Brunson ain't coming.  Book it. 

GET Rondo for 2022-23. Rose will get over it. 
Title: Rondo?
Post by: carlos123 on April 15, 2022, 10:26:06 PM
Sorry Chip, I do not think we need another 36 yo PG, to be 37 next season.
Title: PS
Post by: carlos123 on April 16, 2022, 12:17:28 AM
And how was your Seder?
Did you ask Elijah for inspiration to find the PG we need?
Title: Re: PS
Post by: josh on April 16, 2022, 02:24:59 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on April 16, 2022, 12:17:28 AM
And how was your Seder?
Did you ask Elijah for inspiration to find the PG we need?

Elijah is not Santa Claus, for all that he travels across the world at similar speeds.

Nor is Elijah Zoltan who can tell you "Wish comes true."

TBH, it sounds as if your team is more on the plague-receiving end of things than on the red sea parting end of things.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 16, 2022, 05:52:02 AM
Ouch.

Hart is at least as impactful as Reddish and, though he is undersized for it, does check SFs effectively. He is the talent return in the Blazer package. There may be debate about who was more potential going forward between Cam and Hart and whether it is better for RJs development to have his college pal to work with or to have to try and keep up with Josh Hart.

Fournier is blocking Grimes, IQ, and McBride by taking up backcourt minutes. In the case of Bledsoe if he cannot beat out the kids he can sit for emergencies, be used it a trade to fill a team need, or arrange himself a buyout and go where he wants. Unless he makes himself he would not be part of the long term plan.

I do think it would be a shame to lose Cam though I do like Hart. I would do Fournier for Bledsoe straight for better position in the Draft.

Fuck moving anyone for Zion.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 16, 2022, 06:12:00 AM
Fournier and Noel for Bledsoe and Hart. We get to keep Cam. We would still have to move Walker.
Title: Re: PS
Post by: carlos123 on April 16, 2022, 11:22:46 AM
Quote from: josh on April 16, 2022, 02:24:59 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on April 16, 2022, 12:17:28 AM
And how was your Seder?
Did you ask Elijah for inspiration to find the PG we need?

Elijah is not Santa Claus, for all that he travels across the world at similar speeds.

Nor is Elijah Zoltan who can tell you "Wish comes true."

TBH, it sounds as if your team is more on the plague-receiving end of things than on the red sea parting end of things.

Well, Elijah may not be Santa or Zoltan, but he is still my favorite prophet, and I was only asking for inspiration (and a glass of wine).

Afraid you are right about my team and the plagues.
Title: God Bless Facil
Post by: chipstern on April 16, 2022, 03:27:26 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 16, 2022, 06:12:00 AM
Fournier and Noel for Bledsoe and Hart. We get to keep Cam. We would still have to move Walker.

I appreciate you accomodating my objections in your ongoing fantasy. 

Leave us review.

You appear motivated, MAINLY, to dump contracts, ergo accepting Bledsoe's awful contract for one season. 

K

However, Josh Hart, not unlike Fournier, has a guaranteed third year, albeit, a player option for $12.96 million in 2023-2024. 

Fournier's third guaranteed year is $18.857 million. 

So a net savings of what, 6 million?

Bledsoe's guaranteed money for 2022-23 is $19.375 million.

So now a net savings of 5.5 million. 

For what? 

To totally sunder team chemistry.  And create fresh logjams ahead of Puppy Development. 

Is Bledsoe going to be a happy camper playing behind Rose and [presumably] IQ?  Do we really need KEMBA 2.3 on the bench, not to mention blocking McBride's progress? 

Hart is a damn nice combo wing who has raised his assists up to roughly 5 a game.  Nice versatility.  Would I prefer him to Fournier?  Probably. 

So why exactly does Portland trade Hart for Fournier.  They have what's his name, Anfernee Simmons, who is only 22, a terrific 3-pt and FT shooter who was good for 4 assists a game.  Just had such a breakthrough year, that the Blazers felt like they could cash in CJ McCollum for, among others, Josh Hart, who is also good for 5 assists game. 

And they are going to take on Fournier's next two years at close to 19 million to play behind Simmons, who is due a new deal or a qualifying offer for next season.  And having cased in 30 + McCollum for 27 year old Hart, they are going to trade his versatitlity for the offensive acument of Fournier, who will be 30 this fall. 

And Noel?  Why does Portland want him, when they can probably draft a young big in a BIG HEAVY 2022 Draft. 

Finally,  you don't bring on two new players wily nily just to play with the salary cap. 

With what we went through this year, at the very least our current roster has a common bond of chemistry, in that WE ALL WENT THROUGH IT TOGETHER. 

And you want to mess with THAT? 

C: [Robinson], Sims

PF-C: Randle, Toppin, Gibson

SF-PF: Reddish

SG-SF: Barrett, Burks, Grimes, Hart

PG-SG: IQ, Rose, McBride, Walker, Bledsoe

I do believe you unnderestimate the element of chemistry. 

Fournier said after our last game how much he would love to run it all back with the same group of guys.

We saw how unsettle things got, injuries notwithstanding, when he swapped out Payton for Walker, and Fournier for Bullock. 

And now, with what could be a logjam at the point and the wing, you propose adding another gimpy PG, owed almost $20 Million for 2022-23.  Is he going to be happy riding the pine? 

Yes, Fournier's commitment stands in the way of Grimes development.

So you replace him with Hart, who STILL STANDS in the way of Grimes development, though, qualifying your reasoning, he would give us more facilitation than Fournier does. 

But again...WHY DOES PORTLAND do this trade?  Lillard, Simmons and Hart is a nice rotation.  Fournier would get in the way of Simmons development, whereas Simmons and Hart can both play on or off the ball.  So we're going to get Hart and nail Grimes to the pine.  Likewise Bledsoe for McBride? 

The number may work, but there is no reason for Portland to do it.  And again, Simmons is 22, and Fournier is 29.  Hello?   

Your priapic disdain for Fournier is duly noted.  And it remains to be seen if Neon Leon and company can arrive at a deal which opens up space for Grimes...

Randle-Toppin-Reddish-Barrett-IQ

Sims-Gibson-Burks/Fournier-Grimes-Rose

Are these rotations tenable?  Will Thibs bite the bullet and go small ball?  Does Mitchell stay or does he go, as an UFA or in a sign and trade.  What do we do with our #11 pick? 

FINALLY, as per Senor Bolivar and the Execution Of Comrade Thibs. 

AGAIN....chemistry. 

Do we REALLY Need the instabillity of bringing on YET ANOTHER NEW COACH, either this summer or in midseason? 

HOW MANY COACHES HAVE THE KNICKS HAD SINCE Van Gundy bailed on us in 2001? 

Don Chaney
Herb Williams
Lenny Wilkens
Larry Brown
Isiah Thomas
Mike D'Antoni
Mike Woodson
Derek Fisher
Kurt Rambis
Jeff Hornacek
David Fizdale
Mike Miller

That makes TWELVE [12] since Jeff left in 2001 and Thibs signed on in 2020. 

Not exactly a STABLE ENVIRONMENT with which to develop a winning culture. 

Do I have issues with Thibs?

Sure do.  But it wasn't all bad, though that 3-17 stretch stunk to high heaven, and among the issues I have were mis-using Randle and not holding Julius accountable enough. 

But he did develop a core of young players, though fate did have to intervene to get many of them air time, and his stubborness could be infuriating. 

But he refused to tank, and the team began to evolve after the all-star break in many positive ways, culminating in the IQ-Toppin-Sims-RJ blossoming.  Was Thibs' hand forced?  Sure was.  But the team never gave up on Thibs, nor on each other. 

I think replacing Thibs NOW would be counterproductive. 

We are trying to build confidence and continuity. 

Nor do I think the notion of firing him mid-2022/23 make a bit of sense. 

Yes, the likes of Kenny Atkinson and Mark Jackson look tempting, but come the summer of 2023 we will have expiring/team options on Noel, Gibson, Burks and Rose; we will have two #1 picks; we will have one more year of development of Thibs' system with roughly the same cast of characters. 

If major changes are to occur, the Summer of 2023 makes more sense than the summer of 2022. 

Let's see how Thibs can build on what he and the team learned.  Let's see how our puppies from the last three drafts, 2019-2020-2021 [Toppin, Quickley, Grimes, McBride, Sims...and Reddish from the 2019 draft in exchange for Knox from 2018] can develop.  Let's see if Randle can recommit, and if Thibs can figure out a way of deploying him that adds to the motion and pace we developed post-all star break. I mean, Toppin when everyone was chanting his name, was going on about how he and JR had discussed playing on the floor together in 2022-23.  And IQ evolved under Thibs' tutelage to the point where over the last five games, he looked suspiciously like our lead guard going forward.   

If 2022-23 is not a step forward, many heads may roll in the summer of 2023, including that of our coach, and our star player. 

ANYWAY...my two cents.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 16, 2022, 05:11:38 PM
That last iteration was a pipe dream. Aside from 3 pt stroke, Hart is a superior player to Fournier in every way. Noel is unplayable. No reason for Portland to get involved.

I would like to point out that there is a difference between a logically constructed roster and a team with chemistry. A player who is positionally redundant but plays hard, smart, with focus, and for the team can be way more help to chemistry than a guy with a clear role and enviable skill set who is selfish or careless on the floor or one who is doing bullshit politicking off it.

Ideally you get a logically constructed roster with team chemistry. Given the half full nature of many glasses, often a choice is forced. I would prioritize fit with ideal approach to the game over fit with talent and natural position.

Just as there is a lot our young guys, Quick, Grimes, McBride, and even Barrett get from Rose and even Kemba, they could get a lot from Bledsoe and Hart who have both made careers working hard and smart.

It aint happening, but it is the type of thing that could really improve our team.

I am also taking it as a given that we waive or trade Kemba.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 17, 2022, 09:35:05 AM
Laughing at all the disdain for ZION.
Title: Not unlike your longstanding disdain for...
Post by: chipstern on April 17, 2022, 04:46:21 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on April 17, 2022, 09:35:05 AM
Laughing at all the disdain for ZION.

...JAYSON TATUM

Heh
Title: Re: Not unlike your longstanding disdain for...
Post by: carlos123 on April 17, 2022, 10:55:07 PM
Quote from: chipstern on April 17, 2022, 04:46:21 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on April 17, 2022, 09:35:05 AM
Laughing at all the disdain for ZION.

...JAYSON TATUM

Heh

Chip, that was a MASTERPIECE.
Short, sweet and to the point!
Chamaco is devastated...
Title: Re: Not unlike your longstanding disdain for...
Post by: chipstern on April 18, 2022, 01:16:03 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on April 17, 2022, 10:55:07 PM
Quote from: chipstern on April 17, 2022, 04:46:21 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on April 17, 2022, 09:35:05 AM
Laughing at all the disdain for ZION.

...JAYSON TATUM

Heh

Chip, that was a MASTERPIECE.
Short, sweet and to the point!
Chamaco is devastated...

I'm certain he will rally the next time someone mentions Jordan Hill. 
Title: Calling BankShot--Come In Please
Post by: chipstern on April 18, 2022, 01:20:39 PM
Man, oh man, was that Celtics Nyets game ever a barn burner. 

DAMN.  Celtics play some FEROCIOUS D.  Love the way Coach Ime Udoka has his team playing on both ends. 

Kemba for Horford exchange seems to be working out. 

Every time I see a trade proposal involving Jaylen Brown, I laugh out loud.  Meanwhile, Jayson Tautm just gets nothing but better. 

And on a more personal note, anyone remember when Kendrick Perkins was expousing his notion that Marcus Smart was bringing his team down?

HEH. 

Title: Suns Vs. Pelicans
Post by: chipstern on April 18, 2022, 01:24:42 PM
I remember when Chris Paul was a free agent, and I thought it profligate to invest big money long term in an old man. 

Because of the pandemic, we never really had a shot at him. 

Be that as it may, if I'd had my head any farther up my ass, I'd be able to fart through my ears. 

The manner in which he just TOOK OVER in the fourth quarter was awesome. 

30 PTS on 12 of 16 FG...10 AST 7 REB 3 STL

Meanwhile, shout out to Willie Green how he has his team competing. 

PS: Jae Crowder became the first starter in NBA history with a quadruple ONE in a playoff game: 1 PT 1 REB 1 AST 1 BLK

PPS: This stat line is officially called the JAE CROWDER
Title: MIAMI
Post by: chipstern on April 18, 2022, 01:29:44 PM
Simply a juggernaut. 

Spolestra has a system that works on both side of the ball, and the men to pull it off. 

Vets such as Kyle Lowry, PJ Tucker and Jimmy Butler set a tone for their precocious puppies, and Riley always seems to come up with some jewels amongst the undrafted and the unnoticed. 

Trey is a gamer and they simply shut his ass down. 

IMPRESSIVE. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 18, 2022, 03:06:26 PM
I am curious to see if Boston - Brooklyn and Miami - Atlanta actually go to the teams that drew first blood.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 18, 2022, 03:22:17 PM
http://empiresportsmedia.com/new-york-knicks/karl-anthony-towns-pokes-fun-at-knicks-coach-tom-thibodeau-after-playing-43-mins-in-playoff-win/ (http://empiresportsmedia.com/new-york-knicks/karl-anthony-towns-pokes-fun-at-knicks-coach-tom-thibodeau-after-playing-43-mins-in-playoff-win/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on April 18, 2022, 03:42:15 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 18, 2022, 03:22:17 PM
http://empiresportsmedia.com/new-york-knicks/karl-anthony-towns-pokes-fun-at-knicks-coach-tom-thibodeau-after-playing-43-mins-in-playoff-win/ (http://empiresportsmedia.com/new-york-knicks/karl-anthony-towns-pokes-fun-at-knicks-coach-tom-thibodeau-after-playing-43-mins-in-playoff-win/)

Old Dawg, New Tricks

or

Stubborn Old Dog, No Tricks
Title: Re: Not unlike your longstanding disdain for...
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 18, 2022, 09:30:45 PM
Quote from: chipstern on April 17, 2022, 04:46:21 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on April 17, 2022, 09:35:05 AM
Laughing at all the disdain for ZION.

...JAYSON TATUM

Heh

Magic likes LONZO..
Title: Re: Not unlike your longstanding disdain for...
Post by: chipstern on April 18, 2022, 09:39:48 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 18, 2022, 09:30:45 PM
Quote from: chipstern on April 17, 2022, 04:46:21 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on April 17, 2022, 09:35:05 AM
Laughing at all the disdain for ZION.

...JAYSON TATUM

Heh

Magic likes LONZO..

So

Fucking

What

Proving?
Title: Let The Stupidity Begin
Post by: chipstern on April 18, 2022, 09:52:56 PM
Generally, I will begin my daily Knicks obsession by Googling KNICKS NEWS.

The Rumor/Conjecture Mill grinds on.

Berman promulgating the Knicks/Leon Rose's ongoing interest in Donovan Mitchell and Jalen Brunson. 

K

Another source, which at first glance appeared legit, but upon cursory perusal turned out to be in the outer reaches of Wackamole.

For your giggles, I pass it along to y'all.

Knicks send out Kemba Walker and Julius Randle.

Charlotte sends back Gordon Hayward.

[Cough]
Title: Re: Not unlike your longstanding disdain for...
Post by: carlos123 on April 18, 2022, 10:02:23 PM
Quote from: chipstern on April 18, 2022, 09:39:48 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on April 18, 2022, 09:30:45 PM
Quote from: chipstern on April 17, 2022, 04:46:21 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on April 17, 2022, 09:35:05 AM
Laughing at all the disdain for ZION.

...JAYSON TATUM

Heh

Magic likes LONZO..

So

Fucking

What

Proving?

I was wrong thinking that Chamaco was devastated by Chips devastating original response.

Far from it. Chamaco is "different".

He is actually thrilled, and why?

He got Chips attention, Chip, his first true love here on Elba.
Title: Dream A Little Dream
Post by: chipstern on April 18, 2022, 10:36:22 PM
Donovan Mitchell and Jalen Brunson having one hell of a duel.
Title: Re: Let The Stupidity Begin
Post by: facilitatorn on April 19, 2022, 02:38:52 AM
Quote from: chipstern on April 18, 2022, 09:52:56 PM
Generally, I will begin my daily Knicks obsession by Googling KNICKS NEWS.

The Rumor/Conjecture Mill grinds on.

Berman promulgating the Knicks/Leon Rose's ongoing interest in Donovan Mitchell and Jalen Brunson. 

K

Another source, which at first glance appeared legit, but upon cursory perusal turned out to be in the outer reaches of Wackamole.

For your giggles, I pass it along to y'all.

Knicks send out Kemba Walker and Julius Randle.

Charlotte sends back Gordon Hayward.

[Cough]

Hayward and pick 13 would make me think about it.

Title: The King of Comedy I
Post by: chipstern on April 19, 2022, 05:34:55 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 19, 2022, 02:38:52 AM
Quote from: chipstern on April 18, 2022, 09:52:56 PM
Generally, I will begin my daily Knicks obsession by Googling KNICKS NEWS.

The Rumor/Conjecture Mill grinds on.

Berman promulgating the Knicks/Leon Rose's ongoing interest in Donovan Mitchell and Jalen Brunson. 

K

Another source, which at first glance appeared legit, but upon cursory perusal turned out to be in the outer reaches of Wackamole.

For your giggles, I pass it along to y'all.

Knicks send out Kemba Walker and Julius Randle.

Charlotte sends back Gordon Hayward.

[Cough]

Hayward and pick 13 would make me think about it.

Hahaha

Of course you would.

This from the same GM who obsessed about saving two guaranteed years of 30 year old Evan Fournier's contract at roughly 18-19 million to take on two years guaranteed of the 32 year old Hayward at 30-31 million. 

In the past five years, Hayward has appeared in

1

72

52

44

49 games

In order to get out from under Julius Randle's contract, you would freeze 60 million dollars through 2024 on a player who has missed close to 40% of regular season games.

Rock on, dude.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 19, 2022, 12:24:34 PM
There are twenty ten year players in this draft. I think two of them would help the Knicks more than having just one.
Title: Uh?
Post by: carlos123 on April 19, 2022, 12:40:43 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 19, 2022, 12:24:34 PM
There are twenty ten year players in this draft. I think two of them would help the Knicks more than having just one.

Fac, what is a ten year player?
Title: Re: Uh?
Post by: chipstern on April 19, 2022, 02:48:38 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on April 19, 2022, 12:40:43 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 19, 2022, 12:24:34 PM
There are twenty ten year players in this draft. I think two of them would help the Knicks more than having just one.

Fac, what is a ten year player?

Presumably a player good for a productive ten year stretch in the league. 
Title: Youth Must Be Played To Be Served
Post by: chipstern on April 19, 2022, 03:21:41 PM
Miles McBride, PG [21]

Quentin Grimes, SG/SF [21]

RJ Barrett, SG/SF [21]

Feron Hunt, SF/PF [22]

Immanuel Quickley, PG/SG [22]

Cam Reddish, SF/PF [22]

Jericho Sims, C [23]

Mitchell Robinson, C [24]

Obi Toppin, PF/C [24] 

Julius Randle, PF/C [27] 

That's ten young players.

Even assuming Mitchell is a goner and Julius is old[er], that makes 8 players under the age of 24. 

Rokas Jokubaitis, PG, was drafted at #34, two spots ahead of McBride, and he will be 22 in November.  So presumably the Knicks have some plans for him. 

That makes ELEVEN Young players. 

So where exactly are you going to slot in that extra draft pick, Fac? 

The Knicks traded their #19 pick to Charlotte, and packaged the 2022 pick they were supposed to get back [if Charlotte finhsed out of the Bottom 18] with Kevin Knox to get back Cam Reddish.  Someone in the Knicks hierarchy thought quite a lot of Reddish's upside. 

And we got Jericho Sims with the #58 pick, harvested from Philly in the multi team trade which shipped out Austin Rivers. 

SO IT AIN'T JUST ABOUT Stockpiling #1 picks.  Although, yes, great assets to accumulate, and we spent one to dump Knox and turn him into Reddish. 

The argument that there are multiple TEN YEAR players in this draft is neither here nor there, if there isn't even room on the roster for them, let alone for them to fight their way into Thibs rotation. 

Remains to be seen how Neon Leon & Company reshuffle. 

Joakim Noah comes off the books this summer.  So that's 6.4 million to play with, and the different middle class excepitions.

But no cap space until the summer of 2023. 

Kemba in on his way out for sure. 

But Julius?  Rose?  Fournier?  Burks?  Noel?  Are any of them in play?

Do we make a fair offer to Mitchell?  Or is he dangled in a sign and trade? 

Do we make a run at Brunson?  Do we have a shot?  Would have to be some kind of sign and trade, as we lack cap space until next summer.  CANNOT FATHOM HOW DALLAS LETS HIM WALK. 

So any and all trade projections from the logical to the absurd, are pretty much on ice.  We have no idea who is in play, who we might draft, or if we even keep our #1 pick. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 19, 2022, 08:53:57 PM
Lets go you HAWKS!!!
Title: Re: Youth Must Be Played To Be Served
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 19, 2022, 08:56:13 PM
Quote from: chipstern on April 19, 2022, 03:21:41 PM
Miles McBride, PG [21]

Quentin Grimes, SG/SF [21]

RJ Barrett, SG/SF [21]

Feron Hunt, SF/PF [22]

Immanuel Quickley, PG/SG [22]

Cam Reddish, SF/PF [22]

Jericho Sims, C [23]

Mitchell Robinson, C [24]

Obi Toppin, PF/C [24] 

Julius Randle, PF/C [27] 

That's ten young players.

Even assuming Mitchell is a goner and Julius is old[er], that makes 8 players under the age of 24. 

Rokas Jokubaitis, PG, was drafted at #34, two spots ahead of McBride, and he will be 22 in November.  So presumably the Knicks have some plans for him. 

That makes ELEVEN Young players. 

So where exactly are you going to slot in that extra draft pick, Fac? 

The Knicks traded their #19 pick to Charlotte, and packaged the 2022 pick they were supposed to get back [if Charlotte finhsed out of the Bottom 18] with Kevin Knox to get back Cam Reddish.  Someone in the Knicks hierarchy thought quite a lot of Reddish's upside. 

And we got Jericho Sims with the #58 pick, harvested from Philly in the multi team trade which shipped out Austin Rivers. 

SO IT AIN'T JUST ABOUT Stockpiling #1 picks.  Although, yes, great assets to accumulate, and we spent one to dump Knox and turn him into Reddish. 

The argument that there are multiple TEN YEAR players in this draft is neither here nor there, if there isn't even room on the roster for them, let alone for them to fight their way into Thibs rotation. 

Remains to be seen how Neon Leon & Company reshuffle. 

Joakim Noah comes off the books this summer.  So that's 6.4 million to play with, and the different middle class excepitions.

But no cap space until the summer of 2023. 

Kemba in on his way out for sure. 

But Julius?  Rose?  Fournier?  Burks?  Noel?  Are any of them in play?

Do we make a fair offer to Mitchell?  Or is he dangled in a sign and trade? 

Do we make a run at Brunson?  Do we have a shot?  Would have to be some kind of sign and trade, as we lack cap space until next summer.  CANNOT FATHOM HOW DALLAS LETS HIM WALK. 

So any and all trade projections from the logical to the absurd, are pretty much on ice.  We have no idea who is in play, who we might draft, or if we even keep our #1 pick.

ON ICE?  Sure.  Make mine a Kettle One.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on April 19, 2022, 10:21:11 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 19, 2022, 08:53:57 PM
Lets go you HAWKS!!!

Jimmy FUCKING Butler
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 19, 2022, 10:26:55 PM
Quote from: chipstern on April 19, 2022, 10:21:11 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 19, 2022, 08:53:57 PM
Lets go you HAWKS!!!

Jimmy FUCKING Butler

Love it.  Looks like it was a fun game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 20, 2022, 12:09:18 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 19, 2022, 08:53:57 PM
Lets go you HAWKS!!!

It is certainly turning into a delightful series. More of the same please!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 20, 2022, 12:17:47 AM
Rose, Burks, and Taj provide vet leadership.

Kemba and Noel are dead roster spots, completely unplayable.

Jules and Ev put up numbers but are underwhelming in their overall play on the court.

Keep the first set. Eat the next two. See what the market is for the last two as they still should have some value.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on April 20, 2022, 12:43:52 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 20, 2022, 12:17:47 AM
Rose, Burks, and Taj provide vet leadership.

Kemba and Noel are dead roster spots, completely unplayable.

Jules and Ev put up numbers but are underwhelming in their overall play on the court.

Keep the first set. Eat the next two. See what the market is for the last two as they still should have some value.

Fair enough.

But still, no reason to.have a yard sale for Julius or Evan.  They are talented players, and at the very least, Neon Leon needs to gague the temperature of the market. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 20, 2022, 07:30:21 AM
Knicks send out Kemba Walker and Julius Randle.

Charlotte sends back Gordon Hayward.


We already have a Hayward.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 20, 2022, 07:50:39 AM
Do we make a run at Brunson?  Do we have a shot?  Would have to be some kind of sign and trade, as we lack cap space until next summer.  CANNOT FATHOM HOW DALLAS LETS HIM WALK.


Sad tale.  Dallas has to pay Bertans and Dinwiddie a combined 34 mil - to have gotten rid of the Latvian Loser.

No $$ to keep the required Brunson.

Now - they will try to deal Davis and Spencer, but.......

Dinwiddie a Knick?  For  #1?   Who is in?  (18, then 19 mil - 2 years)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 20, 2022, 07:56:22 AM
Dinwiddie 12-30, 1-10, 14-20 this playoffs.  14 assists, 7 turnovers
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 20, 2022, 08:59:44 AM
Re:  Rivers deal

Good to see AR in the playoffs

Knicks did OK - after nailing the pick with the usable Sims.  One more 2nd to come in '24.  Brazdekis (in the deal) has had a good beginning off the pine with the Magic.  Could still be something but we apparently were not going to use him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 20, 2022, 09:47:33 AM
Quote from: chipstern on April 20, 2022, 12:43:52 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 20, 2022, 12:17:47 AM
Rose, Burks, and Taj provide vet leadership.

Kemba and Noel are dead roster spots, completely unplayable.

Jules and Ev put up numbers but are underwhelming in their overall play on the court.

Keep the first set. Eat the next two. See what the market is for the last two as they still should have some value.

Fair enough.

 

No. It's not.
Title: Chamaco dixit
Post by: carlos123 on April 20, 2022, 02:16:11 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on April 20, 2022, 09:47:33 AM

No. It's not.

Meaning, Chamaco said it.

That's good enough for the rest of us!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 20, 2022, 04:28:42 PM
Kid knows all about basketball. He is a graduate of the Gym Jordan School of Locker Room Behavior.

That is his credential and his bona fide.

Take it for what it is worth.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on April 21, 2022, 12:21:22 AM
I don't know about anybody else, but I'm enjoying the heck out of these playoffs so far, Embid, the Celtics, the Pelicans, Minnesota-Memphis. Sometimes it's fun to sit back and watch without all that emotional involvement.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on April 21, 2022, 10:52:35 AM
Yeah the playoffs have been the bomb!!!! I am loving seeing Kyrie and Durant get thier asses handed to them.  I hope they get swept, although I would love to see a 7 game series :)....I hope the basketball Gods punish them for choosing the Nets over the Knicks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 21, 2022, 08:20:38 PM
-zzzz...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on April 21, 2022, 09:11:36 PM
There is exquisite pleasure in seeing the Celts beat the Nets.

And without Williams!

Definitely my favorite series.
Title: chamAAco is bored
Post by: carlos123 on April 21, 2022, 09:19:00 PM
Quote from: chamAAcocartero8 on April 21, 2022, 08:20:38 PM
-zzzz...

Someone, please do something about it! Chip?

PS. How about those Wolves? Beating the s**t out of them Grizzlies!
Oh, wait, what a run!
Title: Danny Ainge
Post by: chipstern on April 21, 2022, 10:35:00 PM
Drafted Desmond Bane at #30.

Immediately traded him for a pair of #2 picks, apparently out of luxury cap concerns.

One of the all time great penny wise pound foolish dumbfuck moves of our time.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 22, 2022, 03:29:51 PM
Playoff game score over 15 - Once.  Nice.


https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/banede01/gamelog-playoffs/

I dont think Danny did so bad all told  with the Bane move.  Maybe moving the most recent #16 overall - where he could have had T Murphy -might loom larger.   (or was that a B Stevens maneuver -cant recall)



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 22, 2022, 03:32:54 PM
Quote from: elephant on April 21, 2022, 09:11:36 PM
There is exquisite pleasure in seeing the Celts beat the Nets.

And without Williams!

Definitely my favorite series.

Barclays will be bedlam

Top defender of Tatum - not  that he has played all that well - possibly returning in Game 4...

Back to Beantown 2-2
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 22, 2022, 03:36:35 PM
Tonight -money lines

 Atlanta
 Miwaukee
 Phoenix
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 23, 2022, 01:22:38 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on April 22, 2022, 03:36:35 PM
Tonight -money lines

 Atlanta
 Miwaukee
 Phoenix


cha-chinggggggg!!!!
Title: Que listo!!!
Post by: carlos123 on April 23, 2022, 01:09:44 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on April 23, 2022, 01:22:38 AM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on April 22, 2022, 03:36:35 PM
Tonight -money lines

 Atlanta
 Miwaukee
 Phoenix


cha-chinggggggg!!!!

Chamaco telling us, but especially you, Chip, that he is very, very clever, and knows everything about everything, but especially about MTG and basketball.

Beating his own drum, but nobody else does it for him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 23, 2022, 02:47:02 PM
https://dailyknicks.com/2022/04/21/bleacher-report-foresees-knicks-going-memphis-grizzlies-point-guard-free-agency/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 23, 2022, 04:27:44 PM
I would take Tyus for the mid level if he would take it. Good Kemba replacement when we do his buyout.

Tyus, IQ, Rose, McBride gives us very nice depth at PG and nice internal competition. Not as accomplished as Brunson but just about as capable and polished.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on April 23, 2022, 05:06:44 PM
Came across on Reddit a really interesting analysis on RJ Barrett's all star potential.

https://www.reddit.com/r/NYKnicks/comments/u9w1dy/rj_vs_allstar_wings/?sort=top (https://www.reddit.com/r/NYKnicks/comments/u9w1dy/rj_vs_allstar_wings/?sort=top)
Title: Mitchell vs Doncic
Post by: chipstern on April 23, 2022, 07:19:06 PM
Wotta finish.

Playoffs have been fucking burning.

🔥
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 23, 2022, 08:28:58 PM
I would take Tyus for the mid level if he would take it. Good Kemba replacement when we do his buyout.


nahhhhh

Need someone better
Title: Re: Mitchell vs Doncic
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 23, 2022, 08:29:46 PM
Quote from: chipstern on April 23, 2022, 07:19:06 PM
Wotta finish.

Playoffs have been fucking burning.

🔥

Luka passed the ball
Title: Jayson Tatum
Post by: chipstern on April 23, 2022, 10:03:36 PM
Heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on April 23, 2022, 10:06:38 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on April 22, 2022, 03:32:54 PM
Quote from: elephant on April 21, 2022, 09:11:36 PM
There is exquisite pleasure in seeing the Celts beat the Nets.

And without Williams!

Definitely my favorite series.

Barclays will be bedlam

Top defender of Tatum - not  that he has played all that well - possibly returning in Game 4...

Back to Beantown 2-2

So how much dough did you lose tonight?

BTW, has Barclays ever been "bedlam?"

BTW#2......

Fuck the Nets.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on April 23, 2022, 10:22:26 PM
Spike Lee is revisited by his nightmare of almost 40 years ago: Celts taking Brooklyn.

Celts D is crushing
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on April 23, 2022, 11:54:13 PM
The Ben Simmons memes are spectacular tonight!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 24, 2022, 08:40:06 AM
Quote from: elephant on April 23, 2022, 10:06:38 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on April 22, 2022, 03:32:54 PM
Quote from: elephant on April 21, 2022, 09:11:36 PM
There is exquisite pleasure in seeing the Celts beat the Nets.

And without Williams!

Definitely my favorite series.

Barclays will be bedlam

Top defender of Tatum - not  that he has played all that well - possibly returning in Game 4...

Back to Beantown 2-2

So how much dough did you lose tonight?

BTW, has Barclays ever been "bedlam?"

BTW#2......

Fuck the Nets.

No bets last night.  And my bets are just leftover cash in account they gave me on promotion.  Root for me to lose but I really can't.

I am surprised at the result from BK, yes.

Maybe I shouldn't be.  Harden is that good.  And sorely missed.

Go, Hawks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on April 24, 2022, 10:19:37 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on August 29, 2021, 11:59:55 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on August 29, 2021, 10:57:37 PM
CELTICS 40-1 to win it all, 20-1 to win East

Falling fast.

Falling? When?

They've generally been grouped as the 4-5-6 seed in the East which seems fair.

Its hard to bet against the Nets/Durant but they seem combustible. I don't trust them.

I like the Heat as my value pick at 35 to 1, Celts at 40 isn't bad.

I suspect that the Celts will gel as a team as the season progresses and they learn to play under Coach U.

There is a shitload of young talent on that team, (as mentioned a couple of weeks ago they have 8 homegrown 1s) several of whom were developmentally sidetracked by covid, for the past 2 years.

And if luck reverts to the mean, this snakebit team, will be the luckiest team in the NBA for the next few years.

Its only fair. 

Get 'em while they're cheap.

sometimes you get lucky
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on April 24, 2022, 12:56:53 PM
They are playing beautiful ball. Love to watch. And I hate to say that about the Celtics.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 24, 2022, 01:12:02 PM
It is a good thing for the Celts they passed on Ball to get a better player.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on April 24, 2022, 03:12:13 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 24, 2022, 01:12:02 PM
It is a good thing for the Celts they passed on Ball to get a better player.

"Hey, I was always a Tatum booster."

Heh
Title: Smart
Post by: chipstern on April 24, 2022, 03:14:38 PM
When rumors were floating that Smart was on the trading block, I sacrificed a goat to Yahweh as an offering on behalf of the Knicks.
Title: Celtics
Post by: chipstern on April 24, 2022, 03:19:25 PM
I have no compunction about rooting for the Celtics.  Love their 8 man rotation and coach.

I mean, rooting against Dickweed Pro Temps Kyrie Irving?  Magnificent talent.  Narcissistic brat..

Lack of chemistry?  Look in the mirror, dipshit. 
Title: Chamaco is hurt, HURT!
Post by: carlos123 on April 24, 2022, 06:42:03 PM
Quote from: Chip on April 24, 2022, 03:12:13 PM
Quote from: Fac on April 24, 2022, 01:12:02 PM
It is a good thing for the Celts they passed on Ball to get a better player.

"Hey, I was always a Tatum booster."

Heh

(https://media2.giphy.com/media/3oEjHAUOqG3lSS0f1C/giphy.gif)
...and this doggie is Les, trying to hold the laughter 😅
Title: The Jinx
Post by: carlos123 on April 24, 2022, 09:46:00 PM
Quote from: chamAAcocartero8 on April 19, 2022, 08:53:57 PM
Lets go you HAWKS!!!

Quote from: chamacocartero8 on April 22, 2022, 03:32:54 PM
Back to Beantown 2-2
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 24, 2022, 10:04:58 PM
What a shame.....

Nate cant fuccking coach
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 24, 2022, 10:27:02 PM
For all the wonderful feelings they have brought to Hawks nation, I would like to personally thank the Miami Heat.

Nice job by the Bucks too.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 24, 2022, 10:32:18 PM
+550 on Bucks to win it all
Title: Splaining is not his JINX
Post by: carlos123 on April 24, 2022, 11:34:47 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on April 24, 2022, 10:04:58 PM
What a shame.....

Nate cant fuccking coach

He certainly could one year ago.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on April 24, 2022, 11:43:45 PM
The Warriors fans who keep calling for Kerr's head.

What privileged, spoiled little fuckers.

That team does some amazing shit on both ends that is nothing less than a hymn to good coaching.
Title: Pelicans
Post by: chipstern on April 25, 2022, 12:49:51 AM
Playing with the house's money.

Inspiring.

PS:  Perhaps Willie Green's deployment of Grand Theft Alvarado will inspire Thibs to find a steady role for McBride.  I mean, Alvarado got in CP3's head and his pants.  YEAH.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 25, 2022, 04:31:33 AM
Despite seeing Tyus Jones for the MLE as a good deal, I actually think one of our best positions going forward is PG with IQ, McBride, and an ambulatory Rose.

The heavy defensive lifting hounding lead guards works well with IQ and Deuce.

If we stay at 11, I like one of Jeremy Sochan or Dyson Daniels though I expect we will look at who falls when both guys go in the top 10.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on April 25, 2022, 09:32:31 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 25, 2022, 04:31:33 AM
Despite seeing Tyus Jones for the MLE as a good deal, I actually think one of our best positions going forward is PG with IQ, McBride, and an ambulatory Rose.

The heavy defensive lifting hounding lead guards works well with IQ and Deuce.

If we stay at 11, I like one of Jeremy Sochan or Dyson Daniels though I expect we will look at who falls when both guys go in the top 10.

Curiously, many draft projections have us picking a shooting guard at our spot.

RJ
QUENTIN
BURKS
FOURNIER

Am I missing something?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 25, 2022, 11:10:57 AM
Nets fans deprived of 8-10 minutes of Ben

https://www.nba.com/news/nets-ben-simmons-out-for-game-4

Starting to think this guy might just pull a Buster Douglas.

Shame. Harden with this duo would have been great to see
Title: he really didn't have to wear that outfit to the game, tho..don't kill us man
Post by: lesterluv on April 25, 2022, 12:02:38 PM
Ben Simmons, lol, lol, lol...

Just saying the name makes a person chuckle.

Btwn dealing w Simmons and Kyrie, Nash gonna be so happy to get back to pickup soccer games downtown.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 25, 2022, 12:34:39 PM
Quote from: chipstern on April 25, 2022, 09:32:31 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 25, 2022, 04:31:33 AM
Despite seeing Tyus Jones for the MLE as a good deal, I actually think one of our best positions going forward is PG with IQ, McBride, and an ambulatory Rose.

The heavy defensive lifting hounding lead guards works well with IQ and Deuce.

If we stay at 11, I like one of Jeremy Sochan or Dyson Daniels though I expect we will look at who falls when both guys go in the top 10.

Curiously, many draft projections have us picking a shooting guard at our spot.

RJ
QUENTIN
BURKS
FOURNIER

Am I missing something?

BPA.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 25, 2022, 12:37:54 PM
NBA comparison. DESMOND BANE


https://www.nba.com/news/nets-ben-simmons-out-for-game-4
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 25, 2022, 12:41:28 PM
Funny...the comparison for 3rd pick Banchero is JULIUS RANDLE.


Trade up, NY

Looking at Banchero, Murray and Holmgren.  Ty Ty W would be acceptable.
Title: Re: he really didn't have to wear that outfit to the game, tho..don't kill us man
Post by: elephant on April 25, 2022, 01:04:56 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on April 25, 2022, 12:02:38 PM
Ben Simmons, lol, lol, lol...

Just saying the name makes a person chuckle.

Btwn dealing w Simmons and Kyrie, Nash gonna be so happy to get back to pickup soccer games downtown.

At this point, I can't read or hear any story about Simmons without hearing Lester laughing!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on April 25, 2022, 01:06:16 PM
Shame Bo isn't around, because I would have liked to hear the next chapter on life in Shanghai in the age of Covid.
Title: Shanghai
Post by: carlos123 on April 25, 2022, 01:53:32 PM
Quote from: elephant on April 25, 2022, 01:06:16 PM
Shame Bo isn't around, because I would have liked to hear the next chapter on life in Shanghai in the age of Covid.

Les can tell you all about Shanghai, both in English and Chinese.

BoZ could not tell you what really goes on there without risking being sent to a re-education camp, this time for real.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on April 25, 2022, 02:00:41 PM
I'm sure it is normal as FUK FUK!


*** poor Bo, locked behind a metal fence for a month and half with fish bones and a bread crust, and when he finally gets out, Zach will be waiting at the gate. Breaks my damn heart.
Title: Re: Pelicans
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 25, 2022, 02:45:29 PM
Quote from: chipstern on April 25, 2022, 12:49:51 AM
Playing with the house's money.

Inspiring.

PS:  Perhaps Willie Green's deployment of Grand Theft Alvarado will inspire Thibs to find a steady role for McBride.  I mean, Alvarado got in CP3's head and his pants.  YEAH.

Alvarado - like Hyland - can score at the NBA level.

And McBride was beaten off the dribble like a rented mule  a few times this year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 25, 2022, 03:27:52 PM
It is the NBA. That happens to everyone.

Chip, the SGs that are interesting all project to swing to SF as well. Fournier is sub-average and Burks will not last forever.
Title: Zach and BoZ
Post by: carlos123 on April 25, 2022, 03:29:11 PM
Quote from: Les🐶 on April 25, 2022, 02:00:41 PM
I'm sure it is normal as FUK FUK!


*** poor BoZ, locked behind a metal fence for a month and half with fish bones and a bread crust, and when he finally gets out, Zach will be waiting at the gate. Breaks my damn heart.

Zach is a good guy and does not hold grudges. He is there to protect poor BoZizzley 😉
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 25, 2022, 03:34:04 PM
LaMelo got a coach fired already. Not a good sign for Charlotte.
Title: Schmucker Carlsbad
Post by: chipstern on April 25, 2022, 05:27:56 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on April 25, 2022, 02:45:29 PM
Quote from: chipstern on April 25, 2022, 12:49:51 AM
Playing with the house's money.

Inspiring.

PS:  Perhaps Willie Green's deployment of Grand Theft Alvarado will inspire Thibs to find a steady role for McBride.  I mean, Alvarado got in CP3's head and his pants.  YEAH.

Alvarado - like Hyland - can score at the NBA level.

And McBride was beaten off the dribble like a rented mule  a few times this year.

(https://www.savvymom.ca/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Kids-are-Assholes.jpg)

PS: And Tatum is overrated. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 25, 2022, 07:07:54 PM
LOVE TATUM

FUCK THE CELTICS
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 25, 2022, 07:38:31 PM
Tonight's bets if you want to play along


Onunoby over 26.5. Points assists reb

Harden siakam embiid all over 25 points

Utah + 2.5 and Doncic over 40 points.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 25, 2022, 08:25:58 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 25, 2022, 03:34:04 PM
LaMelo got a coach fired already.

Sure he did.  Just like Magic.
Title: Prophet Chip
Post by: carlos123 on April 25, 2022, 09:23:04 PM
Quote from: chamAAcocartero8 on April 25, 2022, 07:07:54 PM
LOVE TATUM

Quote from: Chip on April 24, 2022, 03:12:13 PM
Quote from: Fac on April 24, 2022, 01:12:02 PM
It is a good thing for the Celts they passed on Ball to get a better player.

"Hey, I was always a Tatum booster."

Heh

Chip, you just KNEW Chamaco/ChamAAco was going to say this.
And he is dumb enough to go ahead and say it.

(https://media.tenor.com/images/f45dc3deb54ae86b9276bd0aaa790972/tenor.gif)
My doggie laughing, and this time it aint about Ben.
Title: Go Celtics
Post by: chipstern on April 25, 2022, 09:29:14 PM
(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/djNTcBXhcqBi-mkGmqRRlPFR84g=/0x0:3131x2155/1200x800/filters:focal(1167x243:1667x743)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/64727400/usa_today_12533420.0.jpg)
Title: Fukem
Post by: carlos123 on April 25, 2022, 09:40:54 PM
Fuk them Nyets and fuk Kyrie!

I dislike those two entities more than the Fin Celtics.

But now that the Fin Celtics did their job, fuk them Celtics too in the next round.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 25, 2022, 09:49:37 PM
Smart v. Holiday is a fun matchup next round.
Title: Celtics V Bucks
Post by: chipstern on April 25, 2022, 09:55:10 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 25, 2022, 09:49:37 PM
Smart v. Holiday is a fun matchup next round.

Oh, DOCTOR. 
Title: Re: Prophet Chip
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 25, 2022, 09:59:12 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on April 25, 2022, 09:23:04 PM
Quote from: chamAAcocartero8 on April 25, 2022, 07:07:54 PM
LOVE TATUM

Quote from: Chip on April 24, 2022, 03:12:13 PM
Quote from: Fac on April 24, 2022, 01:12:02 PM
It is a good thing for the Celts they passed on Ball to get a better player.

"Hey, I was always a Tatum booster."

Heh

Chip, you just KNEW Chamaco/ChamAAco was going to say this.
 
 

I recall quite  few of you pubbing Josh Jackson. And being fine with the Frank pick

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 25, 2022, 10:00:57 PM
Meanwhile DOC in a spot of trouble, down 13 at home,4th quarter.  I am surprised - though  DR  vastly overrated.
Title: Mr. heh (and lol) strikes YET again #43,847
Post by: carlos123 on April 25, 2022, 10:41:38 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on April 25, 2022, 09:59:12 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on April 25, 2022, 09:23:04 PM
Quote from: chamAAcocartero8 on April 25, 2022, 07:07:54 PM
LOVE TATUM

Quote from: Chip on April 24, 2022, 03:12:13 PM
Quote from: Fac on April 24, 2022, 01:12:02 PM
It is a good thing for the Celts they passed on Ball to get a better player.

"Hey, I was always a Tatum booster."

Heh

Chip, you just KNEW Chamaco/ChamAAco was going to say this.
And he is dumb enough to go ahead and say it.
 
 

I recall quite  few of you pubbing Josh Jackson. And being fine with the Frank pick

heh

So? That does not detract from your "dumbness", assuming you just didnt make it up.

Besides, "quite  few of you" aint me.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 25, 2022, 10:43:13 PM
Yeah. I know. You didnt know who Jackson was.

Helps you here to be ignorant
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 25, 2022, 10:44:41 PM
Heh

D Mtchell  sucks too

You guys are on quite a streak   
Title: Ignorant
Post by: carlos123 on April 25, 2022, 10:46:15 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on April 25, 2022, 10:43:13 PM
Yeah. I know. You didnt know who Jackson was.

Helps you here to be ignorant

He was selected fourth overall by the Phoenix Suns.
So, obviously, you made up a story here.
Just give it up, Chamaco.
Title: Re: Prophet Chip
Post by: chipstern on April 25, 2022, 11:26:41 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on April 25, 2022, 09:59:12 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on April 25, 2022, 09:23:04 PM
Quote from: chamAAcocartero8 on April 25, 2022, 07:07:54 PM
LOVE TATUM

Quote from: Chip on April 24, 2022, 03:12:13 PM
Quote from: Fac on April 24, 2022, 01:12:02 PM
It is a good thing for the Celts they passed on Ball to get a better player.

"Hey, I was always a Tatum booster."

Heh

Chip, you just KNEW Chamaco/ChamAAco was going to say this.
 
 

I recall quite  few of you pubbing Josh Jackson. And being fine with the Frank pick

heh

Jimmer

Jordan

Toss My Salad ASSHAT. 
Title: Jason Kidd
Post by: chipstern on April 25, 2022, 11:27:49 PM
Coach has Dallas playing defense. 

Punking Utah. 

Who knew? 

Damn
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 26, 2022, 12:03:05 AM
Mitchell's a fake star.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 26, 2022, 12:07:36 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 31, 2018, 04:21:50 AM
I was watching video of Vonleh playing perimeter D. He may not get a lot of steals or blocks, but he really gets low, hustles his ass off moving his feet while keeping balance and position.

With KP out for most or all of the year, our best lineup might be Robinson Vonleh Knox Hardaway Ntilikina. This isn’t an opening night starting group with the players being so raw, but it’s got key defensive standouts, guys who get shots off, who run in transition, who board and put back, and are better athletes than their size should permit, not that they’re not big for their positions.

A real doozy from the past
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on April 26, 2022, 12:10:50 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on April 26, 2022, 12:03:05 AM
Mitchell's a fake star.

I'd love to have that fake star on the Knicks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 26, 2022, 12:13:27 AM
Heh - this is fun


PS:  I am not feeling all that confident that Kyrie represents a real option for us.  Celtics are capable of getting to the NBA Finals.  Of course, Porzingis-Knox-Irving could make for a viable contender, but I do not see Irving leaving the Celtics.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 26, 2022, 02:00:52 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on April 26, 2022, 12:07:36 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 31, 2018, 04:21:50 AM
I was watching video of Vonleh playing perimeter D. He may not get a lot of steals or blocks, but he really gets low, hustles his ass off moving his feet while keeping balance and position.

With KP out for most or all of the year, our best lineup might be Robinson Vonleh Knox Hardaway Ntilikina. This isn’t an opening night starting group with the players being so raw, but it’s got key defensive standouts, guys who get shots off, who run in transition, who board and put back, and are better athletes than their size should permit, not that they’re not big for their positions.

A real doozy from the past

Replace Knox with Dotson and you have the only effective unit on that team that logged more than 30 minutes together.

Four out of five aint bad.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on April 26, 2022, 10:41:02 AM
Knox, meanwhile, was the second-leading scorer for the Hawks v. the Heat on Sunday.

He managed this while playing only four minutes!

https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore/_/gameId/401430218 (https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore/_/gameId/401430218)
Title: Dipshittery At Its Best
Post by: chipstern on April 26, 2022, 03:06:45 PM
Quote from: elephant on April 26, 2022, 12:10:50 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on April 26, 2022, 12:03:05 AM
Mitchell's a fake star.

I'd love to have that fake star on the Knicks.

Donovan is a real star, dipshit.

Luka is a real super star.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 26, 2022, 08:50:26 PM
Good discussion today about Jazz on NBA Radio (Terminy and Johnson, best in the biz).They arent so sure on Donovan, definitely luke warm on Rudy.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 26, 2022, 08:51:49 PM
Parlaying favorites tonight

MEM, MIA, PHX money line
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 26, 2022, 08:55:11 PM
Sure would love it if our Knicks were in this game in Miami - down 3-1.


AND NOW - Barrett on Thibs:

https://dailyknicks.com/2022/04/25/rj-barrett-opens-relationship-knicks-coach-tom-thibodeau/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 26, 2022, 10:06:00 PM
Atlanta joins Brooklyn in the easy out pile.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on April 26, 2022, 10:52:59 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 26, 2022, 10:06:00 PM
Atlanta joins Brooklyn in the easy out pile.

Miami's suffocating defense on Atlanta's final inbounds was scary.
Title: The Jinx
Post by: carlos123 on April 26, 2022, 11:26:35 PM
Quote from: Fac on April 26, 2022, 10:06:00 PM
Atlanta joins Brooklyn in the easy out pile.

As discussed, it was The Chamaco Jinx 🤢
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 27, 2022, 02:20:19 AM
I am in favor of trading anyone over 26 years old not named Rose, Taj, or Burks for Wall and pick 17 from the Rockets.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 27, 2022, 10:04:04 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on April 26, 2022, 08:51:49 PM
Parlaying favorites tonight

MEM, MIA, PHX money line

MONEY.

Great comeback by Grizz.  Both that series and Suns-Pels should see a Game 7. 

Stll haave wagers on MIL (title), TOR and CHI (East) but wouldnt be surprised if they all flamed out.

Question - why is everyone all gaga over Boston?

Overheard on NBA Radio - "Harden's body is broken down"

- Wilbon


We'll see.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 27, 2022, 10:07:16 AM
This should be PAINFUL watching Doc Rivers, he of the 3 up 3-1 in series losses - try to stave off the hungry Raptors - first in TOR, then in what would be an incredible scene for a Game 7 in Philly.
Title: Chamaco cannot help himself
Post by: carlos123 on April 27, 2022, 12:04:09 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on April 27, 2022, 10:04:04 AM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on April 26, 2022, 08:51:49 PM
Parlaying favorites tonight

MEM, MIA, PHX money line

MONEY.


Beating his own drum again.
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Title: Give Us This Day Our Daily Dipshit
Post by: chipstern on April 27, 2022, 12:54:59 PM
(https://www.venezianoandpartners.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/opportunity-e1485868827521.png)

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81rFoOWt36L._SS500_.jpg)
Title: Inspired by Chip's Daily Dipshit Chronicles
Post by: carlos123 on April 27, 2022, 02:30:23 PM
Quote from: Chip on April 27, 2022, 12:54:59 PM
(https://www.venezianoandpartners.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/opportunity-e1485868827521.png)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLXuHZZZKH0qWrArSEPHvLP4LE2ThBPHgIb-jtlXEsU8-21VPaslxvDtcOo7SWYrydWGVyXWYJZeJWKFyv2u7GBrNTTxFJgaxqZmPZ7OX5ZoBEDaYCVP1Mmn-dokAduIzWdg6TZyqAipAeg56Vaef-mt=w427-h439-no?authuser=0)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on April 27, 2022, 05:38:58 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on April 27, 2022, 10:04:04 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on April 26, 2022, 08:51:49 PM
Parlaying favorites tonight

MEM, MIA, PHX money line

MONEY.

Great comeback by Grizz.  Both that series and Suns-Pels should see a Game 7. 

Stll haave wagers on MIL (title), TOR and CHI (East) but wouldnt be surprised if they all flamed out.

Question - why is everyone all gaga over Boston?

Overheard on NBA Radio - "Harden's body is broken down"

- Wilbon


We'll see.

Kid I could (and have) comment on my feelings about the Celt's chances, but why don't you tell the forum why you think everyone is gaga over Boston and where you agree or disagree with the assessment?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 27, 2022, 06:54:28 PM
I dont think making top 8 is any great shakes

Yes.  I have Bucks as their Waterloo
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 27, 2022, 06:55:25 PM
What else did you want?  No free picks tonight, sorry.
Title: The Revenge of Chamaco
Post by: carlos123 on April 27, 2022, 07:17:23 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on April 27, 2022, 06:55:25 PM
No free picks tonight, sorry.

LMAO!!!!
Lets see how long this lasts. One day, two?

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLV5a1yG9OdsC-UIaAsDqKXvcK4ErdYidbGMmkuX5Wbo1phmMzpuMHI8M10JZ33zKpUMx2JykFlZjpp42CIuw4ud8GsHPkdFW8T51PNjHEbzgHDqnlHpt9JmM4VaAJPadUOv_Y2vlET5PQ0guQ_mBgEQ=w427-h439-no?authuser=0)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on April 27, 2022, 07:33:06 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 27, 2022, 06:54:28 PM
I dont think making top 8 is any great shakes

Yes.  I have Bucks as their Waterloo

No one said it was a great shake and we're now approaching a 1-4 seed East tourney where anyone can win.

Still waiting for why you're confused about the bandwagon experts recently jumping on the C's bandwagon.

And I don't need your picks, don't bet the NBA.

Although I did give you the best value plays in the East pre-season, picking Miami and the Celts. I wish I played those. at 35 and 40 to 1 they would have cashed very nicely.

You had the Nets and Lakers right?
 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 27, 2022, 07:44:28 PM
I dont recall.  Certainly not for cash

Bucks are winning it all

Just added Minnesota at 100-1 to win the West.  15 gets 1515.
Title: "It's beginning to feel a lot like Xmas..."
Post by: chipstern on April 27, 2022, 11:52:32 PM
To Facil with love.

(https://i.gifer.com/FTwq.gif)

Lakers receive Julius Randle, Evan Fournier.

Knicks receive Russell Westbrook, 2027 #1 pick.

Facil receives a tube of lube and a box of Kleenex.

(https://c.tenor.com/UUZa9J9IiJkAAAAC/scoreoff-letsplayforum.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 28, 2022, 02:06:39 AM
Unlike Kemba and Noel, Randle and Fournier have some value and that value is not totally out of wack with their contracts. Rusty and a way distant first rounder will not cut it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 28, 2022, 10:42:13 AM
Quote from: bodiddley on October 02, 2021, 02:08:56 PM
Nope.  Davion isn't going to see much court time.  Nobody except TyH shows much aptitude for/interest in D in Sacto.  Another year of individuals playing a team sport.  Btw, Davion Mitch a year and a half older than tyH (Dav turned 23 recently).


heh


https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mitchda01.html
Title: PRAISE THE LORD
Post by: chipstern on April 28, 2022, 04:34:57 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 28, 2022, 02:06:39 AM
Unlike Kemba and Noel, Randle and Fournier have some value and that value is not totally out of wack with their contracts. Rusty and a way distant first rounder will not cut it.

(https://media.tumblr.com/fa3534fc455b52f58b26a48fb76801ed/tumblr_inline_mlczrvkPEw1qz4rgp.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 28, 2022, 05:30:01 PM
I need a year of John Wall and the 17 pick in this draft to get rid of Randle and Fournier at least.

We need the space to try and sign Boogie Cousins.
Title: Mr. heh (and lol) strikes YET again #43,848
Post by: carlos123 on April 28, 2022, 06:15:33 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on April 28, 2022, 10:42:13 AM
Quote from: BoZizzley on October 02, 2021, 02:08:56 PM
Nope.  Davion isn't going to see much court time.  Nobody except TyH shows much aptitude for/interest in D in Sacto.  Another year of individuals playing a team sport.  Btw, Davion Mitch a year and a half older than tyH (Dav turned 23 recently).

heh

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mitchda01.html

Chamaco, we really do not care about a random comment that BoZ made more than half a year ago.

And, MOSTLY, we do not care for more hehs from you. We have seen enough of them for two or three lifetimes.
Title: Re: PRAISE THE LORD... REALLY?
Post by: carlos123 on April 28, 2022, 06:20:17 PM
Quote from: Chip on April 28, 2022, 04:34:57 PM
Quote from: Fac on April 28, 2022, 02:06:39 AM
Unlike Kemba and Noel, Randle and Fournier have some value and that value is not totally out of wack with their contracts. Rusty and a way distant first rounder will not cut it.

(https://media.tumblr.com/fa3534fc455b52f58b26a48fb76801ed/tumblr_inline_mlczrvkPEw1qz4rgp.gif)

Quote from: Fac on April 28, 2022, 05:30:01 PM
I need a year of John Wall and the 17 pick in this draft to get rid of Randle and Fournier at least.

We need the space to try and sign Boogie Cousins.

Sorry, Chip.

Maybe you praised the Lord a little too quickly.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on April 28, 2022, 07:07:14 PM
Well alright Jordanna Clark!


https://dailyknicks.com/2022/04/27/knicks-misssed-chance-draft-nuggets-point-guard-bones-hyland-2021/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 28, 2022, 07:20:54 PM
Dont look now - here comes Harden.

Too old

Too broken down.

Heh
Title: Mr. heh (and lol) strikes YET again #43,849
Post by: carlos123 on April 28, 2022, 09:04:31 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on April 28, 2022, 07:20:54 PM
Dont look now - here comes Harden.

Too old

Too broken down.

Heh

Chamaco really, REALLY, cannot help himself.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 28, 2022, 09:37:25 PM
Excellent job by Doc tonight - channeled Van Gundy with the short rotation.

Certainly pulling for them vs the Butlers
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 28, 2022, 09:55:07 PM
Nahhhh - Knicks didnt want no Chris Paul

heh
Title: Mr. heh (and lol) strikes YET again #43,850
Post by: carlos123 on April 28, 2022, 10:07:20 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on April 28, 2022, 09:55:07 PM
Nahhhh - Knicks didnt want no Chris Paul

heh

I am exhausted. 43850 hehs was my limit. No more recording.

Chamaco wins the heh war. At least he is successful at one thing. Congratulations, Chamaco!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on April 28, 2022, 11:13:33 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on April 28, 2022, 07:07:14 PM
Well alright Jordanna Clark!


https://dailyknicks.com/2022/04/27/knicks-misssed-chance-draft-nuggets-point-guard-bones-hyland-2021/

Oh, for fuck's sake. You were wrong then. And you're still wrong.

We had IQ. Who the head coach loved. Maybe you would have jettisoned IQ and picked up Bones. Fine. But no organization is quite dumb enough to acquire them both. Not even the Knicks.

Meanwhile Grimes clearly has game, and it remains to be seen how high his ceiling will be.

I suppose, however, that it's nice that you finally found an insightful sports analyst (2018 graduate of UNC!) to support your hoopster wet dreams.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 29, 2022, 09:18:04 AM
The elephant has roared.

Granted - all you said.

Trust Leon.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on April 29, 2022, 12:22:08 PM
Moneyline for the Elite 8

to win East

Celts +180
Heat +220
Bucks +280
76ers +550

West

Warriors +135
Suns +200
Grizz  +500
Lukas  +600

All da marbles

Warriors +320
Suns    +323
Celts     +367
Heat      +640
Bucks    + 720
Grizz      +1340
76ers     +1420
Mavs      +1660

https://www.vegasinsider.com/nba/odds/futures/ (https://www.vegasinsider.com/nba/odds/futures/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: josh on April 29, 2022, 01:46:52 PM
Gee, they don't seem to agree with Kid's detailed analysis of the Bucks vs. Celtics

Or Philly vs. Miami, for that matter.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on April 29, 2022, 02:08:29 PM
Quote from: josh on April 29, 2022, 01:46:52 PM
Gee, they don't seem to agree with Kid's detailed analysis of the Bucks vs. Celtics

Or Philly vs. Miami, for that matter.

👣👀👣
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 29, 2022, 02:41:04 PM
I should have waited.

Got just +550 on Bucks.

Second choice definitely the Hardens. Not that I dont appreciate how Boston is defending and how Marcus has played PG (the surprise of the year for me)

Where's my 100-1 TWolves?  C'mon man - thats gas money.

(Full disclosure - if they all fizzle, I am out 70 bucks total from my account.  (10+10+10+15 (MIN) +25 (MIL)  can make that u with one savvy 2-team parlay))
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on April 30, 2022, 12:03:17 AM
kid needs gas money.

I'll toss in a Buck.

76ers need a center as Embiid out indefinitely against Heat.

Brutal luck for 76ers.

Dude was having a year and a half.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on April 30, 2022, 12:01:19 PM
After his injury a few years back, strange that Embiid never consistently wore goggles.

I mean it worked for a couple of other dudes.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on April 30, 2022, 12:02:42 PM
Occurs to me I've never uploaded a picture to the forum before.

Some of you are magicians with that. Any simple advice?
Title: Insert Image
Post by: carlos123 on April 30, 2022, 12:09:29 PM
Quote from: elephant on April 30, 2022, 12:02:42 PM
Occurs to me I've never uploaded a picture to the forum before.

Some of you are magicians with that. Any simple advice?

Easy. Copy the image address and insert using the "Insert Image" icon on the left, just below the "Bold" icon above the writing screen.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on April 30, 2022, 01:15:29 PM
Ah, I see. Thanks.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a5/Model_of_the_Elephant_for_the_Place_de_la_Bastille%2C_1831.jpg/1280px-Model_of_the_Elephant_for_the_Place_de_la_Bastille%2C_1831.jpg)
Title: Mama's Boy
Post by: chipstern on April 30, 2022, 01:49:18 PM
It's in the DNA, folks. 

(https://www.ajc.com/resizer/Q32Bsz_5pWWEtTcSAJNlCoh4QHQ=/814x458/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/ajc/B2QKRQE2IJYTJGPENYCRPMUUBQ.JPG)

Always get a big kick out of seeing draft night picks with their families.  Particulary these young men and their mothers. 

Lasonia Walker's son, Travon Walker, First Pick in the 2022 Draft, is 6'5" 275. 

Hello. 

(https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1275975495830601729/x_OozacL_400x400.jpg)

Title: Kayvon Thibodeaux
Post by: chipstern on May 01, 2022, 12:02:44 AM
The Knicks should be so lucky with their #1 pick.

https://nypost.com/2022/04/30/giants-kayvon-thibodeaux-opens-up-in-wide-ranging-interview/ (https://nypost.com/2022/04/30/giants-kayvon-thibodeaux-opens-up-in-wide-ranging-interview/)

THIBS 2.1 has crazy physical gifts, but does he ever have a head on his shoulders. 

Journalism major who graduated in three years.

Chess player.

This young man is a born leader who is built for New York.

Oh, DOCTOR. 


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 01, 2022, 11:25:49 AM
Yeah... seems so.  But physically will he ever be the beast  they thought after his injury?


But then there is this:


"Something underrated about him that is overlooked is the Ohio State game. Even when he was out, he was still engaged on the sideline. You saw him coaching up the defense when his counterparts are coming off the field.

"It is something that gets overlooked by the average fan, but it is something NFL scouts took note of."



Good pick?   Sure.   Best pick?  Likely no. .  Lets see how it works out.


 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 01, 2022, 01:36:54 PM
OK, Smart has green hair.

It's over, Bucks.

heh

(for the record, no wager on this or  the Philly series)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: josh on May 01, 2022, 04:08:47 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on May 01, 2022, 01:36:54 PM
OK, Smart has green hair.

It's over, Bucks.

heh

(for the record, no wager on this or  the Philly series)

(Just a prediction you made on each series.)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 01, 2022, 05:37:40 PM
Meh

Dont think I actually picked Philly but have your fun.
Title: The Jinx #3
Post by: carlos123 on May 01, 2022, 09:55:19 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on May 01, 2022, 05:37:40 PM
Meh

Dont think I actually picked Philly but have your fun.

Quote from: chamacocartero8 on April 28, 2022, 09:37:25 PM
Excellent job by Doc tonight - channeled Van Gundy with the short rotation.

Certainly pulling for them vs the Butlers

Well, I do not know if you picked them, and certainly do not give a fuk.

But you did not fail at jinxing them, did you?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 01, 2022, 10:58:32 PM
We'll see, Los.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: josh on May 02, 2022, 04:13:03 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on May 01, 2022, 05:37:40 PM
Meh

Dont think I actually picked Philly but have your fun.

Have you talked to your PCP about your memory issues?

Quote from: kidcarter8 on April 29, 2022, 11:05:42 AM
Well....no Lavine.  And Bucks are CLASS even without their top "3 nd D" Middleton

Looking like MIL/PHI vs PHX/GS

Sure looks like you picked Phiily.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 02, 2022, 08:14:04 AM
Nah.....not with complete info even if I had.   Philly win still wouldnt surprise me.  But no great feeling on it now.   Stillppulling for the Hardens,asmuch as I respect J Buts and Herro
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: josh on May 02, 2022, 10:52:30 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on May 02, 2022, 08:14:04 AM
Nah.....not with complete info even if I had.   Philly win still wouldnt surprise me.  But no great feeling on it now.   Stillppulling for the Hardens,asmuch as I respect J Buts and Herro

LOL

HEH

And duh, no great feelings on it now. Not surprising that you are backpedaling.
Title: Trumpaco
Post by: carlos123 on May 02, 2022, 12:34:23 PM
Quote from: josh on May 02, 2022, 10:52:30 AM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on May 02, 2022, 08:14:04 AM
Nah.....not with complete info even if I had.   Philly win still wouldnt surprise me.  But no great feeling on it now.   Stillppulling for the Hardens,asmuch as I respect J Buts and Herro

LOL

HEH

And duh, no great feelings on it now. Not surprising that you are backpedaling.

Chamaco channeling his inner Trumptin and denying what we can all see. Not sure that tactic will work here.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLV5a1yG9OdsC-UIaAsDqKXvcK4ErdYidbGMmkuX5Wbo1phmMzpuMHI8M10JZ33zKpUMx2JykFlZjpp42CIuw4ud8GsHPkdFW8T51PNjHEbzgHDqnlHpt9JmM4VaAJPadUOv_Y2vlET5PQ0guQ_mBgEQ=w427-h439-no?authuser=0)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 02, 2022, 12:54:15 PM
Quote from: josh on May 02, 2022, 10:52:30 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on May 02, 2022, 08:14:04 AM
Nah.....not with complete info even if I had.   Philly win still wouldnt surprise me.  But no great feeling on it now.   Stillppulling for the Hardens,asmuch as I respect J Buts and Herro

LOL

HEH

And duh, no great feelings on it now. Not surprising that you are backpedaling.

Not surprising anyone would.  Heat are legit.  And Philly not full strength.  Glad K kept the cash in account
Title: AMAZIN'
Post by: carlos123 on May 02, 2022, 02:57:35 PM
Chamaco just does not give up, no matter what he wrote, he keeps saying he actually meant something else. True trump-aco!

(https://media4.giphy.com/media/MdpSuAccvSeR3VjUrS/giphy.gif)

(https://images2.minutemediacdn.com/image/fetch/c_fill,g_auto,f_auto,h_376,w_500/https%3A%2F%2Fbleedinblue.com%2Ffiles%2F2016%2F04%2Ftumblr_nhvfs2vVpy1s2wio8o1_500.gif)

I dont see why it wouldnt...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_s3UiWl_Uc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_s3UiWl_Uc)
Title: Trunk Funk For Elephant
Post by: chipstern on May 02, 2022, 03:35:15 PM
(https://c.tenor.com/5FGR9IS7DlMAAAAC/dance-tapped.gif)

(https://i0.wp.com/media2.giphy.com/media/fAOGCk10DCwNy/giphy.gif)

(https://c.tenor.com/f4sEls1Ieb8AAAAM/smack-elephant.gif)



Title: MULLIGAN ALERT: The Glory That Is Kiid
Post by: chipstern on May 02, 2022, 03:43:08 PM
(https://c.tenor.com/4GHwAtEz43UAAAAC/stufeiner-stu.gif)

A Man Of His Word, Consistent To The Last

(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_llp002qyzt1qavmcho1_500.gif)

His Over Is Under

(https://c.tenor.com/XtGPgtadCm8AAAAM/not-a-gamble-if-you-win-not-a-gamble.gif)

But...you actually SAID IT. 

(https://i0.wp.com/sopranosblueprint.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/The-Sopranos_S.01_E.13_I-Dream-of-Jeannie-Cusamano.gif?fit=480%2C270&ssl=1)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 02, 2022, 05:29:44 PM
Wise guy reference.  Cool.

Anyone watching Paramount's THE OFFER? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: josh on May 02, 2022, 06:46:39 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on May 02, 2022, 05:29:44 PM
Wise guy reference.  Cool.

Anyone watching Paramount's THE OFFER?

Littlefeather.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 03, 2022, 08:32:05 AM
Bucks now slightly favored to  take series from Boston

PHO, GS and MIA are HUGE favorites

Getting about 4-1 on Sixers and Grizz,  3.5-1 on Dallas to advance
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 03, 2022, 06:05:06 PM
Whenever there is some crummy innovation that lets you trade a little bit of personhood to become more fully a piece of shit, such as the confluence of gambling, the internet, and sports, you can expect to find Kiid chasing it, full bore, with his pants flapping around his ankles.
Title: Chamaco's pants flapping
Post by: carlos123 on May 03, 2022, 10:19:51 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on May 03, 2022, 06:05:06 PM
Whenever there is some crummy innovation that lets you trade a little bit of personhood to become more fully a piece of shit, such as the confluence of gambling, the internet, and sports, you can expect to find Kiid chasing it, full bore, with his pants flapping around his ankles.

(https://c.tenor.com/y6kz1402peoAAAAM/dancing-lol.gif)

U mean like this?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on May 04, 2022, 12:24:15 AM
Ja Morant is the most beautiful player in the game. Just incredible to watch. Artist/Athlete.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 04, 2022, 08:30:49 AM
I guess The Mitten was hurt.  Could have cooled Ja off.

Good coaching on both sides in this one

Meanwhile Terminy on NBA Radio wondering how Doc plays D Jordan so much

Lets see what tonight brings for the Sixers crew
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 04, 2022, 08:32:22 AM
Damn - fractured elbow for  GP II.  Big loss.
Title: Celtics
Post by: chipstern on May 04, 2022, 02:17:54 PM
Man, did the Celtics ever bring it in the first quarter against the Bucks. 

The level of defensive intensity, let alone the ball movement on the offensive end. 

Al Horford.  Ageless. 

Grant Williams.  Just a baby bulldozer.  Was fund seeing him man up against the Greek Freak. 

And the Jayson/Jaylen combo. 

We've all seen how unconscious Jaylen can be when in his zone. 

His performance against our Knicks on opening night 2021, still rattles my cage. 

Playoffs this year have been ultra competitive. 

I thought LeBron James comments about Ja Morant were on point.  MOST IMPROVED?  Sheeeeet.  He was a bad MF from the git go, and now he is playing at a level of leadership and fourth quarter gimme the ball that is just epic. 
Title: Nyets
Post by: chipstern on May 04, 2022, 02:48:28 PM
I can almost feel sorry for Kevin Durant, save that he went out of his way to diss the Knicks on his way cross the Brooklyn Bridge. 

I mean, he is such a competitor and skilled player. 

Still, he coulda stayed with the Warriors.  Did he actually factually feel uncomfortable sharing the stage with Steph Curry?  And Thompson and Green?  Seriously.  That my friends is a character flaw.  Seem like some A+ running buddies to me. 

So from Curry & Green to Irving & Simmons?

What's not to like?  High character guys, right?   

Winners versus two narcissists.  Simmons in his own private Idaho, while Kyrie, as talented a hoopster as you will find in this solar system, and has detonated every team he's been on in.  Like Durant, apparently he found the role of second banana to LeBron James [LEBRON JAMES] simply unbearable. 

Well, fuck me.  Dwayne Wade welcomed LeBron with open arms, and readily subsumed his ego in the NAME OF TEAM.  And in terms of talent, well...kind of wash with Kyrie.  In terms of TALENT + CHARACTER? 

dWade...

Good luck to Durant and Irving co-managing the Nyets franchise...

Look at Miami, and what Pat Riley has assembled. Undrafted Role Players who abound and prosper.  Well thought out #1 picks such as Bam and Herro.  And tough, Tough, TOUGH veterans who embody Padre Riles' Winning Mantra: Butler, Lowry, Tucker. 

Not sure how Miami V Philly or Boston V Milwaukee play out...

But I would surely relish Heat V Celtics. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 04, 2022, 08:46:19 PM
New Simmons for'22-'23, I trust.
Title: You're very trusting
Post by: carlos123 on May 05, 2022, 10:59:29 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on May 04, 2022, 08:46:19 PM
New Simmons for'22-'23, I trust.

Will you remember you posted this when you come back next year to chamaco-splain that you told us Simmons was done as a player?
Title: Normal as Fickety Fak Fuk!
Post by: lesterluv on May 06, 2022, 03:20:45 PM
lmao....we not getting any kind of NEW Ben Simmons next year, lol, lol, lol.

Meanwhile in Shanghai:
"Shanghai police barge down door in resident's apartment" https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2022/05/04/shanghai-covid-police-break-down-door-coren-ovn-intl-ldn-vpx.cnn/video/playlists/around-the-world/ (https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2022/05/04/shanghai-covid-police-break-down-door-coren-ovn-intl-ldn-vpx.cnn/video/playlists/around-the-world/)
Title: Re: Normal as Fickety Fak Fuk!
Post by: chipstern on May 06, 2022, 04:19:00 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on May 06, 2022, 03:20:45 PM
lmao....we not getting any kind of NEW Ben Simmons next year, lol, lol, lol.

Meanwhile in Shanghai:
"Shanghai police barge down door in resident's apartment" https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2022/05/04/shanghai-covid-police-break-down-door-coren-ovn-intl-ldn-vpx.cnn/video/playlists/around-the-world/ (https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2022/05/04/shanghai-covid-police-break-down-door-coren-ovn-intl-ldn-vpx.cnn/video/playlists/around-the-world/)


Ben "To Be Or Not To Be" Simmons AND Kyrie 'The Martyr" Irving

As a Knicks fan, I almost feel sorry for Kevin Durant.

But then, he wanted to BE THE BELL COW. 

The notion that he felt a palpable spiritual ennui in feeling that he was somehow a secondary figure to Steph Curry in Golden State? 

Playing with Curry, Thompson, Green?  What's not to like?  Curry and Durant both averaged 26 a game. 

What am I missing? 

Now he has linked his brand to a pair of great talents who also happen to be certifiable mental cases. 

Kyrie is a generational talent.

Still, correct me if I am wrong, but Cleveland, Boston, Brooklyn...he has detonated every team he's been associated with.  

Much as Durant didn't want to be second fiddle to Steph Curry, Kyrie didn't want to be second fiddle to LeBron James. 

Steph and LeBron.  All time great talents and winners. 

Kyrie played 60 & 67 games in his two seasons with Boston. 

Admittedly, he played very well, and in his first season, the Celtics went to the conference finals, where they took LeBron and the Cavs to seven games before falling.  The Cavs went down 4-0 to....who?  The Durant-Curry-Thompson-Green Warriors.  Who knows how the Cavs might have fared if Kyrie was still with LeBron. 

AS A SON OF BROOKLYN? 

In three seasons, he as played in

20
54
29

games

He is a narcissistic head case, albeit at such a level of talent, that time and time again, people will put up with his nonsense and indulge him.

CONCEIVABLY, Durant-Irving-Simmons could start fresh as a talented triumverate in 2022-23.  It is not beyond the realm of possibility. 

(https://lookcharms.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/nba-brooklyn-nets-kyrie-irving-ben-simmons-kevin-durant.jpg)

But the self regard and fragile/inflated egos of Simmons and Irving are like walking land mines. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: josh on May 06, 2022, 04:38:34 PM
Much of that post seemed familiar to me. I figured out why:
Quote from: chipstern on May 04, 2022, 02:48:28 PM
I can almost feel sorry for Kevin Durant, save that he went out of his way to diss the Knicks on his way cross the Brooklyn Bridge. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on May 06, 2022, 07:20:20 PM
Quote from: josh on May 06, 2022, 04:38:34 PM
Much of that post seemed familiar to me. I figured out why:
Quote from: chipstern on May 04, 2022, 02:48:28 PM
I can almost feel sorry for Kevin Durant, save that he went out of his way to diss the Knicks on his way cross the Brooklyn Bridge. 

HAHA

Knicks fans tend to be obsessive. 

Kyrie's "martyr" narrative really ticked me off. 

Brooklyn fans deserve better. 
Title: Joel Embid
Post by: chipstern on May 06, 2022, 07:22:51 PM
LOVE his mask

(https://media3.giphy.com/media/3ohc0R6HAsokTpnRhm/200.gif?cid=ecf05e47a99qj9fylyeew3l0r5oip68dtmr6zgmu2iqenau9&rid=200.gif&ct=g)
Title: Re: You're very trusting
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 06, 2022, 09:10:00 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 05, 2022, 10:59:29 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on May 04, 2022, 08:46:19 PM
New Simmons for'22-'23, I trust.

Will you remember you posted this when you come back next year to chamaco-splain that you told us Simmons was done as a player?


shhhh...   

Child.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 06, 2022, 09:10:52 PM
Fuck PJ Tucker
Title: Re: You're very trusting
Post by: carlos123 on May 06, 2022, 10:32:41 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on May 06, 2022, 09:10:00 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 05, 2022, 10:59:29 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on May 04, 2022, 08:46:19 PM
New Simmons for'22-'23, I trust.

Will you remember you posted this when you come back next year to chamaco-splain that you told us Simmons was done as a player?


shhhh...   

Child.

Chamaco, is this the best you can do?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 07, 2022, 10:00:58 AM
CONCEIVABLY, Durant-Irving-Simmons could start fresh as a talented triumverate in 2022-23.  It is not beyond the realm of possibility.

yep
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 07, 2022, 10:03:54 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on May 02, 2022, 08:14:04 AM
Nah.....not with complete info even if I had.   Philly win still wouldnt surprise me.  But no great feeling on it now.   Still pulling for the Hardens, as much as I respect J Buts and Herro

Lets go!!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 07, 2022, 10:57:25 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on May 07, 2022, 10:00:58 AM
CONCEIVABLY, Durant-Irving-Simmons could start fresh as a talented triumverate in 2022-23.  It is not beyond the realm of possibility.

yep

Sure ANYTHING is possible, but more likely ends up found unconscious in a brothel ala Lamar Odom given current trajectory.

*** and ya best heed the Dawg who has been unfailingly correct  in his projections regarding EVERY aspect of this pathetic tale since inception.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 07, 2022, 11:12:36 AM
Sure ANYTHING is possible, but more likely ends up found unconscious in a brothel ala Lamar Odom given current trajectory.



Who?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 07, 2022, 11:19:02 AM
Ben, lol, ya idjit
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 07, 2022, 11:39:16 AM
Not sure why your sick mind took you there.

Enjoy the day.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 07, 2022, 12:02:49 PM
That's the trajectory, I didn't create it, I can't control it, don't shoot the messenger.

* Next you'll be blaming me for that mess in Shanghai or the Donald being sodomized by his pal Putin.

** Every one of my posts has been pure-reality-in-advance-of-reality, the games he wouldn't play, the $$$ he wouldn't get paid, the Sixers not being f'd and getting everything they wanted. You'll come back to me whimpering like the dog you are when Gentle Ben inevitably gets caught with his trousers down around his ankles and saliva dribbling out of the meth pipe in his mouth.
Title: Back Surgery
Post by: chipstern on May 07, 2022, 03:20:53 PM
This was a very serious procedure.

The idea being floated that Gentle Ben will be good to go come training camp is willfully woebegone.  I would be shocked if we see Simmons playing meaningful minutes in the rotation before January 2023. 

As for the Nyets, I have a strong feeling that MeMeMeKyrie is NOT GOING TO PICK UP HIS OPTION, forcing the Nyets to committ to a four year, $200,000,000 max in his role as co-genital manager. 

If Kyrie becomes an unrestricted free agent, who goes all in on this combustible MF?

LEON ROSE?

Be careful what you wish for Knicks fans. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 07, 2022, 05:02:00 PM
Here is my new wish

Fournier, Noel, Walker, and Gibson plus pick 42 for Wall and 17 in this draft.

I hate to lose Taj but I am voting to Keep Reddish who would also make the Salary work. Otherwise it gives them an expensive but serviceable vet in Evan and three guys the could keep or buy out. One of Noel or Taj, probably Taj, would really help their depth and growth next year.

We
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on May 07, 2022, 05:31:14 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on May 07, 2022, 05:02:00 PM
Here is my new wish

Fournier, Noel, Walker, and Gibson plus pick 42 for Wall and 17 in this draft.

I hate to lose Taj but I am voting to Keep Reddish who would also make the Salary work. Otherwise it gives them an expensive but serviceable vet in Evan and three guys the could keep or buy out. One of Noel or Taj, probably Taj, would really help their depth and growth next year.

We

Fournier makes zero sense for Houston with two more guaranteed years and their talented puppies Porter AND Green.

Do they still have Eric Gordon for next year?

Noel AND Kemba?

How does this help them talent or cap wise?
Title: Putin and Trumptin
Post by: carlos123 on May 07, 2022, 05:40:57 PM
Quote from: Les on May 07, 2022, 12:02:49 PM

* Next you (Chamaco) will be blaming me for that mess in Shanghai or the Donald being sodomized by his pal Putin.


(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLVfuNgYWHIf7D8vUllvmMFPu0k1biE4NRoRXwpBqZYuyUWw94DXI2tkuWOvH0ZkoZYuhy31WnZ_pGPpq5RPwnVVSfCI41okdXFIXvbEALH4wZNhlQc1p_08CCHbg05pjdcb-jXkbqLRpVFnyeb3_mFW=w615-h757-no?authuser=0)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 07, 2022, 06:21:08 PM
Nice fight back, Boston.

Looked like Smart crossed the line early.  For what that is worth.

Horford is  a true warrior.
Title: Rich Strike Indeed
Post by: chipstern on May 07, 2022, 07:27:17 PM
80 To 1

Long Shot?

TRY NO SHOT

Hell of a return for the Kentucky Derby.

Brought to you by WOODFORD RESERVE BOURBON, who back in 2014 ran a television commercial featuring a solo drummer performing Max Roach's "For Big Sid"

https://youtu.be/cv8Rxy9U7FQ (https://youtu.be/cv8Rxy9U7FQ)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on May 08, 2022, 01:24:09 PM
Quote from: chipstern on May 07, 2022, 05:31:14 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on May 07, 2022, 05:02:00 PM
Here is my new wish

Fournier, Noel, Walker, and Gibson plus pick 42 for Wall and 17 in this draft.

I hate to lose Taj but I am voting to Keep Reddish who would also make the Salary work. Otherwise it gives them an expensive but serviceable vet in Evan and three guys the could keep or buy out. One of Noel or Taj, probably Taj, would really help their depth and growth next year.

We

Fournier makes zero sense for Houston with two more guaranteed years and their talented puppies Porter AND Green.

Do they still have Eric Gordon for next year?

Noel AND Kemba?

How does this help them talent or cap wise?

ERIC GORDON

2022-2023

$19,568,360

2023-24

$20,917,902

[TEAM OPTION]

+ Young Guards

Josh Christoper

Garrison Matthews

And they could have a shot at Jaden Ivey with a lottery pick.  And a good big man prospect at #17. 

So, I apologize for being a spoil sport Fac, but Kemba, Nerlens, Evan, Taj? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 08, 2022, 04:18:41 PM
Overheard on NBA Radio

(LeBron must say yes)

Rand le and Fournier for WESTBROOK.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on May 08, 2022, 05:47:39 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 08, 2022, 04:18:41 PM
Overheard on NBA Radio

(LeBron must say yes)

Rand le and Fournier for WESTBROOK.

Why?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 08, 2022, 05:59:48 PM
Lakers perspective....

3. Which do you like for LA? 

Los Angeles Lakers Receive: G John Wall, C Christian Wood
Houston Rockets Receive: G Russell Westbrook, F Talen Horton-Tucker, 2027 First-Round Pick

Los Angeles Lakers Receive: F Gordon Hayward, G Terry Rozier
Charlotte Hornets Receive: G Russell Westbrook, 2027 First-Round Pick (LAL)

Los Angeles Lakers Receive: F Julius Randle, G/F Evan Fournier
New York Knicks Receive: G Russell Westbrook, 2027 First-Round Pick


https://www.nbaanalysis.net/2022/05/07/nba-trade-rumors-los-angeles-lakers-russell-westbrook-new-york-knicks-charlotte-hornets-houston-rockets/




Title: Hmmmmm
Post by: chipstern on May 08, 2022, 06:00:52 PM
Theo Pinson

Timmy Hardaway

Frank Ntilikina

Reggie Bullock
Title: NBA Analysis Network
Post by: chipstern on May 08, 2022, 06:02:55 PM
Phantasmagrical Horseshit.

By Morons

For Morons
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 08, 2022, 06:05:55 PM
Wow - CP3 is shutting me up

7 turnovers in Game 3 and today he fouled out in 23 minutes, taking just 4 shots.
Title: Lakers
Post by: chipstern on May 08, 2022, 06:08:22 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on May 07, 2022, 05:02:00 PM
Here is my new wish

Fournier, Noel, Walker, and Gibson plus pick 42 for Wall and 17 in this draft.

I hate to lose Taj but I am voting to Keep Reddish who would also make the Salary work. Otherwise it gives them an expensive but serviceable vet in Evan and three guys the could keep or buy out. One of Noel or Taj, probably Taj, would really help their depth and growth next year.

We

Reroute that package to the Lakers for Westbrook
Title: Re: Hmmmmm
Post by: lesterluv on May 08, 2022, 06:22:33 PM
Quote from: chipstern on May 08, 2022, 06:00:52 PM
Theo Pinson

Timmy Hardaway

Frank Ntilikina

Reggie Bullock

J. Kidd much sharper than Thibs, lol, putting Frankie to very good use.
M. Williams much sharper than Thibs, lol, not allowing Elfrid any use!


*** I'd take either of these guys over Thibs but watcha gonna do, we got what we got.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 08, 2022, 11:17:38 PM
James Harden or Lamar Simmons?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on May 09, 2022, 03:57:36 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on May 08, 2022, 11:17:38 PM
James Harden or Lamar Simmons?

Mulligan?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 09, 2022, 12:42:02 PM
(https://library.sportingnews.com/styles/crop_style_16_9_mobile_2x/s3/2022-05/nba-plain--5d021c83-6f5f-4e9f-9eae-6757dcf20bf2.jpeg?itok=S8XS6opA)


or


(https://i.kym-cdn.com/news/posts/desktop/000/002/102/Webp.net-resizeimage_(5).jpg)
Title: Ty Maxey & IQ
Post by: chipstern on May 09, 2022, 02:41:54 PM
Teammates at Kenturcky.

Similar size, skillsets and spirt.

FEARLESS. 

No earthly reason why IQ cannot serve likewise for the Knicks. 

Listening THIBS? 

PS: Harden got his hospitality call from Mount Olympus last night did he not?  That was inspiring.  Much as he was inspired by that warrior Joel Embid.  Great duel in the sun between Harden and Jimmy Butler.  The thought of how much better James Harden will be with a summer of conditioning and the opportunity to deepen his bond with Embid.  What might our expectation be of Gentle Ben? 

PPS: RJ Barrett is our Jimmy Butler in process.  The next online motherfucker who pencils him into a trade for Donovan Mitchell, I punch right in the nose, metaphorically speaking.  I love DM, but with all due respect, FUCK DONOVAN MITCHELL.  We're going to gut our team for Donovan Mitchell?  Ge the fuck out of here.  The grass ain't always greener. 

Compare where Jimmy was in his third year with the Bulls with RJ's third year with the Knicks, then peruse his fourth year with the Bulls when he was 25. 

RJ being 21.  HELLO?

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/butleji01.html (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/butleji01.html)

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/barrerj01.html (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/barrerj01.html)

Will RJ become more efficient, better off of the bounce, improve as a FT shooter considering how often he gets to the line?  Fill out his body like Butler did? 

He is on a path to do so. 

Title: A Facil Styled Donovan Transaction
Post by: chipstern on May 09, 2022, 02:54:05 PM
So.

We want Donovan Mitchell?

Utah will want some value back. 

Donovan Mitchell
Eric Paschall

To The Knicks

Julius Randle
Evan Fournier
2022 Knicks Second Rounder
2023 Dallas First Rounder

Just a thought. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on May 09, 2022, 04:08:48 PM
Anyone Recall When Michigan State Basketball Star Adreian Payne Befriended His #1 Fan, Little Lacey Holsworth, One Of Their Team's Biggest Boosters, An Act Of Love And Kindness Which Was Enormously Moving To Me, As The Little Girl Had Terminal Cancer And Succumbed At Only Eight Years Old. 

(https://static.onecms.io/wp-content/uploads/sites/20/2014/04/lacey-600.jpg)

Payne Has Been The Victim Of Gun Violence At The Age Of 31.  My God.

https://247sports.com/LongFormArticle/Adreian-Payne-death-Reaction-widespread-honoring-ex-Michigan-State-basketball-star-187355988/#187355988_6 (https://247sports.com/LongFormArticle/Adreian-Payne-death-Reaction-widespread-honoring-ex-Michigan-State-basketball-star-187355988/#187355988_6)

(https://scontent-lga3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/280319304_10224171295124097_5383552589159565635_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_s851x315&_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-6&_nc_sid=dbeb18&_nc_ohc=ztEjXbjI8wgAX_eQYjd&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-2.xx&oh=00_AT_CGy7t4xFtekl2qSATvt3wBjAzU4rERUx3SFGN5fucRQ&oe=627F05A6)
Title: Re: A Facil Styled Donovan Transaction
Post by: facilitatorn on May 09, 2022, 05:37:14 PM
Quote from: chipstern on May 09, 2022, 02:54:05 PM
So.

We want Donovan Mitchell?

Utah will want some value back. 

Donovan Mitchell
Eric Paschall

To The Knicks

Julius Randle
Evan Fournier
2022 Knicks Second Rounder
2023 Dallas First Rounder

Just a thought.

I do not mind that.

LA does not have the picks to make me include Taj for a player we would only cut. No to Rusty.

My Wall offer still stands.

Evan would check threes, not twos in Houston and he would help them spread the floor for about twenty minutes. If Houston does not see value in Noel or Walker they can buy them out just as we will do if we cannot find a trade partner before the season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 09, 2022, 07:41:52 PM
Quote from: chipstern on May 09, 2022, 04:08:48 PM
Anyone Recall When Michigan State Basketball Star Adreian Payne Befriended His #1 Fan, Little Lacey Holsworth, One Of Their Team's Biggest Boosters, An Act Of Love And Kindness Which Was Enormously Moving To Me, As The Little Girl Had Terminal Cancer And Succumbed At Only Eight Years Old. 

(https://static.onecms.io/wp-content/uploads/sites/20/2014/04/lacey-600.jpg)

Payne Has Been The Victim Of Gun Violence At The Age Of 31.  My God.

https://247sports.com/LongFormArticle/Adreian-Payne-death-Reaction-widespread-honoring-ex-Michigan-State-basketball-star-187355988/#187355988_6 (https://247sports.com/LongFormArticle/Adreian-Payne-death-Reaction-widespread-honoring-ex-Michigan-State-basketball-star-187355988/#187355988_6)

(https://scontent-lga3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/280319304_10224171295124097_5383552589159565635_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_s851x315&_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-6&_nc_sid=dbeb18&_nc_ohc=ztEjXbjI8wgAX_eQYjd&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-2.xx&oh=00_AT_CGy7t4xFtekl2qSATvt3wBjAzU4rERUx3SFGN5fucRQ&oe=627F05A6)

Black on black gun violence.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 09, 2022, 07:43:03 PM
PS: Harden got his hospitality call from Mount Olympus last night did he not?  That was inspiring.  Much as he was inspired by that warrior Joel Embid.  Great duel in the sun between Harden and Jimmy Butler.  The thought of how much better James Harden will be with a summer of conditioning and the opportunity to deepen his bond with Embid.  What might our expectation be of Gentle Ben?


Nets have THREE years to get value from Simmons

And a year with Curry
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 09, 2022, 07:44:42 PM
Jrue Holliday fans should really be roaring right now,by the way.  Good call, brothers.
Title: Re: A Facil Styled Donovan Transaction
Post by: elephant on May 09, 2022, 11:08:56 PM
Quote from: chipstern on May 09, 2022, 02:54:05 PM
So.

We want Donovan Mitchell?

Utah will want some value back. 

Donovan Mitchell
Eric Paschall

To The Knicks

Julius Randle
Evan Fournier
2022 Knicks Second Rounder
2023 Dallas First Rounder

Just a thought.

We do that in an instant, I think.

But I don't think that will get it done.
Title: Re: Ty Maxey & IQ
Post by: elephant on May 09, 2022, 11:13:24 PM
Quote from: chipstern on May 09, 2022, 02:41:54 PM
Teammates at Kenturcky.

Similar size, skillsets and spirt.

FEARLESS. 

No earthly reason why IQ cannot serve likewise for the Knicks. 

Listening THIBS? 


I agree with this. (though we might both be wrong)

So much is context, chemistry, accident. Some organizations thrive in developing talent. Some don't. But we just compare guys one to the other, as if the stats determine all.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on May 10, 2022, 02:27:24 AM
For instance, how would J. Poole have fared under the Knicks/Thibs?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 10, 2022, 08:36:05 AM
With Quickley's 2021-22 minutes?

Pretty well, I'd guess.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 10, 2022, 09:57:31 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on May 09, 2022, 07:43:03 PM
Nets have THREE years to get value from Simmons

rofl...good luck with that....I saw this headline in the Times this morning and was sure it was about Simmons:

How Ben Got His Penis
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/10/magazine/phalloplasty.html (http://nytimes.com/2022/05/10/magazine/phalloplasty.html)

****
Quote
Black on black gun violence
I'm with you kidd. Hate it, I much prefer Black on White gun action.
My fave? When Black professionals take out Crazy Ass White Crackers with a single shot, that's the sweet, sweet stuff.

(https://img.ifunny.co/images/2f72a1f112af65b39a2c5dad3f50ef6544b5b49fb372c1ec1cf95b379bc1a3b4_1.webp)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 10, 2022, 01:51:28 PM
Nice, Les.

I do not think kid is enough of a patriot to catch the sentiment.

He is the type of nut job to fetishize that kind of terrorist and encourage imitators.

Kid is no fan of law enforcement, probably because his whole way of life rests on a foundation of kidnapping and forced labor.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 11, 2022, 09:34:18 AM
WTF happened in Phoenix?

38-30 Dallas became 80-110?

Holy smokes!
Title: BIG SHOES TO FILL: Bob Lanier, Rest In Peace
Post by: chipstern on May 11, 2022, 12:40:32 PM
(https://pickinsplinters.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/Bob_Lanier.jpg)

BOB LANIER
September 10, 1948 - May 10, 2022

20.1
10.1
3.1

(https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/oleantimesherald.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/9/be/9bee033f-0d01-59aa-9ea6-44e378f9ae69/5ebc92ae1f231.image.jpg)

(https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/madison.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/a/db/adb60af6-ce0a-11de-b1b6-001cc4c002e0/adb60af6-ce0a-11de-b1b6-001cc4c002e0.image.jpg?resize=367%2C500)

(https://tapinto-production.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/articles/la/best_crop_a33cb244fd5ff2f473d9_Lanier2.jpg?id=4057806)

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/laniebo01.html (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/laniebo01.html)

Size 22 Sneaker

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EM6Y6fFWsAEfAC-.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on May 11, 2022, 01:24:36 PM
Great player. One of my earlier basketball memories is him toppling like a tree with a knee injury in the NCAA Regional finals. Chris Ford of Villanova (and later teams) crashed into him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 11, 2022, 04:56:49 PM
Wow.  Boston -5.5 tonight.


Moneyyyyy!!!!


Meanwhile trade floating around has us getting Horton Tucker and Nun plus Russ who we would buy out.


Lose Noel Rand le and fournier
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 11, 2022, 05:59:28 PM
https://dailyknicks.com/2022/05/10/reacting-bleacher-reports-proposed-three-team-trade-involving-new-york-knicks/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on May 11, 2022, 08:03:58 PM
Not rumors.

Fabrifications.

And utterly lame.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 11, 2022, 08:50:09 PM
Oh...be assured Knicks are in on Westbrook talks. Just a matter of who we can extract from LA

Reaves would be nice.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on May 11, 2022, 10:05:18 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on May 11, 2022, 08:50:09 PM
Oh...be assured Knicks are in on Westbrook talks. Just a matter of who we can extract from LA

Reaves would be nice.

LAME

We don't need Lakers gimps and fucking  scrubs.

And for Fournier AND Randle?

For scrub guards.

When we have RJ, Burks, Grimes, IQ and Deuce, let alone Rose and Jokubaitis on ice.

As for your assurance that Knicks are in the hunt for Westbrook.

Carlos
Dawg
Facil
Elephant

DULY  NOTED

✅️
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on May 11, 2022, 11:23:30 PM
Wait, did I ever say anything about Westbrook?

In other news, I can't remember another NBA playoffs where there is so little dominance...by anyone.

The parity is crazy. Intriguing.....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on May 12, 2022, 04:12:52 AM
Quote from: elephant on May 11, 2022, 11:23:30 PM
Wait, did I ever say anything about Westbrook?



No

Just bearing witness to the kiid prediction.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 12, 2022, 07:07:13 AM
Quote from: chipstern on May 11, 2022, 10:05:18 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on May 11, 2022, 08:50:09 PM
Oh...be assured Knicks are in on Westbrook talks. Just a matter of who we can extract from LA

Reaves would be nice.

LAME

We don't need Lakers gimps and fucking  scrubs.

And for Fournier AND Randle?

For scrub guards.

When we have RJ, Burks, Grimes, IQ and Deuce, let alone Rose and Jokubaitis on ice.

As for your assurance that Knicks are in the hunt for Westbrook.

Carlos
Dawg
Facil
Elephant

DULY  NOTED

✅️

Haven t changed my mind - that I believe we will try to keep Fournier.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 12, 2022, 07:12:48 AM
Re. IQ Deuce and Grimes

None will be a starter here next season.

X
Fournier
Barrett
Randle
Noel

Shake well....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 12, 2022, 07:17:12 AM
Tatum scored a bunch of points last night

But Scalabrine is right.  Jason needs to work harder to receive the rock down 108-107.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 12, 2022, 07:22:04 AM
Looking forward to this combine


https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10035509-paolo-banchero-chet-holmgren-highlight-2022-nba-draft-combine-participants
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 12, 2022, 03:42:17 PM
ZEN MASTER speaks on Russ/LBJ


https://www.basketballnetwork.net/latest-news/los-angeles-lakers-consultant-phil-jackson-wants-to-trade-lebron-james-and-keep-russell-westbrook?fbclid=IwAR1IWj9oUDjgZh2hwOZtqT6q30ubXf0bnQPU59bUmBIkEGwpK_fswBkSd_c

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on May 12, 2022, 04:28:00 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 12, 2022, 07:12:48 AM
Re. IQ Deuce and Grimes

None will be a starter here next season.

X
Fournier
Barrett
Randle
Noel

Shake well....

Meanwhile trade floating around has us getting Horton Tucker and Nun plus Russ who we would buy out.

Lose Noel Rand le and fournier

So, Kiid has pronounced IQ, Grimes and Deuce as second tier players.

AGAIN, THESE ARE NOT TRADES FLOATING AROUND...THEY ARE MASTURBATORY PHANTASIES by third rate, fourth string bloggers, rooted in NOTHING. 

THE PROPHET is promulgating blogosphere hallucinations, AND PASSING THEM OFF AS NEWS, in which we trade two starters and a rotation player in return for the uber redundancy of two, count 'em TWO Laker back court scrubs in Horton Tucjer and Nunn [who was injured the entire season] and Westbrook, only to drop or buy out Russell.  And what, the Lakers 2027 #1? 

And the link to the other "trade" was a three team spectacular in which we end up with the same fucking backcourt redundant scrubs, while Randle ends up...

On The NYETS. 

Thanks for sharing. 
Title: Minority Opinion
Post by: chipstern on May 12, 2022, 04:35:15 PM
https://twitter.com/i/status/1524433882426314756 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1524433882426314756)

I expect to be trolled for suggesting that we commit to IQ and Jokubaitis in 2022-2023. 

With Rose and McBride.  That's 4 PGs. 

Philly committed to developing Maxey when Simmons was off the reservation, and it paid dividends.  And with the arrival of Harden, Maxey was able to shift to combo guard, playing both on and OFF the ball. 

I would also like us to commit to minutes for Reddish at SF and PF in small ball configs. 

To resign Mitchell. 

To pay heed to late season Obi, who addressed how he and Julius had spoken of playing C/PF with Julius.  Both are the same size as Miami's BamBam.  And Taj.  Why the fuck not? 

During the stretch in which IQ and Obi had their coming out party, the Knicks played with considerably more ball movement, cutters and PACE. 

Let's see what Thibs has learned. 

PS: Johnny Bryant has apparently gotten IQ and Obi on a "hot yoga" regimen.  Que es esta?  Anyone? 
Title: Rokas Jokubaitis
Post by: chipstern on May 12, 2022, 04:57:19 PM
I would be surprised if the Knicks go all in on Rokas this coming season, but they did draft him at #34, so they saw something. 

I suspect he doesn't come over until 2023-2024. 

Will be interesting to see if Thibs can overcome his addiction to VETS.  We are not yet a contender.  We are a developing team, and youth must be served.  Of course you need vets, but in looking at the Pelicans and the Grizzlies in the playoffs, there is something to be said for how they fast tracked their puppies, and how said puppies competed. 

Anyway, I do not know quite how to interpret what takeaways Thibs took from 2021-2022, and how he might evolve. 

We shall see. 

Meanwhile, YOUTH IS BEING SERVED IN THE PLAYOFFS. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 12, 2022, 06:41:49 PM
Let's go, Hardens!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 12, 2022, 08:41:11 PM
Chip loves his Maxey




heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 12, 2022, 09:21:52 PM
hehehe

Rivers = Cora
Title: Chamaco's Jinx #4
Post by: carlos123 on May 12, 2022, 09:51:37 PM
Quote from: chamAAcocartero8 on May 12, 2022, 06:41:49 PM
Let's go, Hardens!!!

Sure, lets go, LMAO!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 13, 2022, 12:16:47 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 12, 2022, 06:41:49 PM
Let's go, Hardens!!!

He sucked. They got knocked the fuck out.

You are a total idiot with terrible taste in everything.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 13, 2022, 07:15:50 AM
Whew - tough game to watch.

So where does Doc land?  ESPN?

Good for him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on May 13, 2022, 07:31:55 AM
I think just as interesting is whether there's another team out there (or even the same one) that actually thinks they can win a championship with James Harden.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 13, 2022, 10:55:38 AM
Man is JH ever a lifetime playoff fail....ain't gonna get better as he gets older and fatter!

Hard to believe 76ers had Butler/Embid together and let that slip away. They'll probably pay for that forever.

But how about FRANKIE SMOKES!!!! LAYING DOWN THE CLAMPS AGAINST BOOKER & PAUL. All the minutes when it mattered most. Frankie & Bullocks - the defensive law!!


**Thibs was such an ass-clown lol w that put him on Trae for 1 play stuff, turrible

***Kidd showing himself as a very flexible effective coach, quite a contrast with our human manatee
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 13, 2022, 12:42:39 PM
 Yeah JH was better off in BK.  Can't project him well with his current team.  Maybe a new coach has some ideas that might be beneficial.

Hearing STOTTS for LAL
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 13, 2022, 12:50:07 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on May 13, 2022, 10:55:38 AM
Man is JH ever a lifetime playoff fail....ain't gonna get better as he gets older and fatter!

Hard to believe 76ers had Butler/Embid together and let that slip away. They'll probably pay for that forever.

But how about FRANKIE SMOKES!!!! LAYING DOWN THE CLAMPS AGAINST BOOKER & PAUL. All the minutes when it mattered most. Frankie & Bullocks - the defensive law!!


**Thibs was such an ass-clown lol w that put him on Trae for 1 play stuff, turrible

***Kidd showing himself as a very flexible effective coach, quite a contrast with our human manatee

1.5 points per game with a half a rebound and .8 assists

I still like him though.  :)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 13, 2022, 02:02:07 PM
4 steals and a block alternately locking up C. Paul and D. Booker down the stretch in an elimination game, you better like him:)


** bonus value: allowing himself to be used as a human weapon by Jae Crowder to destroy Chris Pauls thumb in advance of game 7.

*** shame Bo is not alive to hear me give the once-in-a-50-year Bullock his props! Aint Covid a bitch?

当他们让你出去时，一定要大声喊叫

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/10/no-end-in-sight-shanghai-residents-chafe-at-harsh-covid-measures? (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/10/no-end-in-sight-shanghai-residents-chafe-at-harsh-covid-measures?)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 13, 2022, 03:50:17 PM
Per presser, Harden stays and Doc stays.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on May 13, 2022, 07:23:42 PM
This idea in the NBA of blaming the coach for everything is nutty.

That said, I'm not sure the playoffs have been kind to Thibs. We really didn't have the talent to get into the top ten in the East?

I think we did.

I don't see any arguments for his inflexibility and lack of imagination. Yeah, Rose and Noel were injured, but most all the top teams dealt with significant injuries. It's just a really fluid, dynamic league now....and there's a real question whether Thib's old school wisdom and skillsets can take you anywhere anymore.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 13, 2022, 08:03:03 PM
Its not really built yet.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on May 13, 2022, 08:10:12 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on May 13, 2022, 02:02:07 PM
4 steals and a block alternately locking up C. Paul and D. Booker down the stretch in an elimination game, you better like him:)


** bonus value: allowing himself to be used as a human weapon by Jae Crowder to destroy Chris Pauls thumb in advance of game 7.

*** shame Bo is not alive to hear me give the once-in-a-50-year Bullock his props! Aint Covid a bitch?

当他们让你出去时，一定要大声喊叫

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/10/no-end-in-sight-shanghai-residents-chafe-at-harsh-covid-measures? (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/10/no-end-in-sight-shanghai-residents-chafe-at-harsh-covid-measures?)

"Shame Bo is not alive..."

You really are a no class little cunt.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 13, 2022, 10:12:51 PM
Clap clap clap clap clap

Way to show up, Jason Tatum
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on May 13, 2022, 10:34:46 PM
Monster game.

This series is old school and reminds me of the classic '81 rockfight with Philly, arguably the greatest 7-gamer non-final in NBA history.
Title: Hey Bankshot
Post by: carlos123 on May 13, 2022, 10:38:54 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on May 13, 2022, 10:12:51 PM
Clap clap clap clap clap

Way to show up, Jason Tatum

Hey Bank, Chamaco always, ALWAYS, told you that Jayson Tatum was a great player, and also that Boston did a great trade with Philly when you guys got him.

But you would not believe him, and kept saying they should have stuck to the No. 1 pick and just get Markelle Fultz.

Now you know Chamaco was right and you and everybody else were wrong, as usual.
Title: Re: Hey Bankshot
Post by: bankshot1 on May 13, 2022, 10:52:22 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 13, 2022, 10:38:54 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on May 13, 2022, 10:12:51 PM
Clap clap clap clap clap

Way to show up, Jason Tatum

Hey Bank, Chamaco always, ALWAYS, told you that Jayson Tatum was a great player, and also that Boston did a great trade with Philly when you guys got him.

But you would not believe him, and kept saying they should have stuck to the No. 1 pick and just get Markelle Fultz.

Now you know Chamaco was right and you and everybody else were wrong, as usual.

Carlos my old friend, when you're right you're right. And I should have tipped my tam o shanter to kid's keen eye for talent and reasoned takes on roundball. He saw the diamond in the rough, the brilliance hidden, that almost no one else saw in Tatum.

Kid is special.
Title: Xinjiang
Post by: carlos123 on May 13, 2022, 10:53:28 PM
Quote from: chipstern on May 13, 2022, 08:10:12 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on May 13, 2022, 02:02:07 PM
4 steals and a block alternately locking up C. Paul and D. Booker down the stretch in an elimination game, you better like him:)


** bonus value: allowing himself to be used as a human weapon by Jae Crowder to destroy Chris Pauls thumb in advance of game 7.

*** shame Bo is not alive to hear me give the once-in-a-50-year Bullock his props! Aint Covid a bitch?

当他们让你出去时，一定要大声喊叫

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/10/no-end-in-sight-shanghai-residents-chafe-at-harsh-covid-measures? (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/10/no-end-in-sight-shanghai-residents-chafe-at-harsh-covid-measures?)

"Shame Bo is not alive..."

You really are a no class little cunt.

Poor doggie! 🐶

He is not a no-class little cunt, he was just joking. We all know BoZ is alive and well, and running a re-education camp in Xinjiang.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 13, 2022, 10:54:19 PM
Quote from: elephant on May 13, 2022, 07:23:42 PM
This idea in the NBA of blaming the coach for everything is nutty.

That said, I'm not sure the playoffs have been kind to Thibs. We really didn't have the talent to get into the top ten in the East?

I think we did.

I don't see any arguments for his inflexibility and lack of imagination. Yeah, Rose and Noel were injured, but most all the top teams dealt with significant injuries. It's just a really fluid, dynamic league now....and there's a real question whether Thib's old school wisdom and skillsets can take you anywhere anymore.

The problem I think was the front office wanted him to use Kemba as a starter when he should have been deep bench if used at all. In addition to not working it created disharmony that spread everywhere.

We had league best D after the allstar break. If we have a reasonably smart offseason we should be back in next year.

Not sure Noels injury impacted anything one way or the other.
Title: Bank, you're a genius!
Post by: carlos123 on May 13, 2022, 11:00:05 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on May 13, 2022, 10:52:22 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 13, 2022, 10:38:54 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on May 13, 2022, 10:12:51 PM
Clap clap clap clap clap

Way to show up, Jason Tatum

Hey Bank, Chamaco always, ALWAYS, told you that Jayson Tatum was a great player, and also that Boston did a great trade with Philly when you guys got him.

But you would not believe him, and kept saying they should have stuck to the No. 1 pick and just get Markelle Fultz.

Now you know Chamaco was right and you and everybody else were wrong, as usual.

Carlos my old friend, when you're right you're right. And I should have tipped my tam o shanter to kid's keen eye for talent and reasoned takes on roundball. He saw the diamond in the rough, the brilliance hidden, that almost no one else saw in Tatum.

Kid is special.

And here are a few tam o' shanters so you can chose the one you deem more appropriate for your homage to Chamaco:

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b4/Tam-o-shanters.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: josh on May 14, 2022, 12:47:44 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 13, 2022, 07:15:50 AM
Whew - tough game to watch.

So where does Doc land?

Philadelphia, coaching the 76ers.
Title: Reverse Jinx#1
Post by: carlos123 on May 14, 2022, 01:40:16 AM
Quote from: josh on May 14, 2022, 12:47:44 AM
Quote from: chamAAcocartero8 on May 13, 2022, 07:15:50 AM
Whew - tough game to watch.

So where does Doc land?

Philadelphia, coaching the 76ers.

Chamaco has a jinx. If he likes a team, a coach, a player, then something bad is gonna happen to them.

But the same is true in reverse: if he dislikes you, you are in luck 🍀

And so it goes with Doc Rivers. Chamaco really, really despised him. So, what happens to Doc??

Nothing! He stays with the 6ers!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 14, 2022, 04:47:39 AM
Hell of a season by the Grizz. They went down swinging.

I hope Ja mends well and is good to go next season.
Title: Re: Xinjiang
Post by: lesterluv on May 14, 2022, 08:03:20 AM
Quote
"Shame Bo is not alive..."

You really are a no class little cunt.

I'm a "NCLC" most def, but my statement is not possibly true. Apparently nobody has died in China despite all these cases and fuss. Only place in the world where thousands get it and nobody kroaks!

People really gotta stop blaming the messagedawg 4 stuff.

All I did was this:

Respond "It depends on what you call normal" when he posted that crap about life in China being normal.

He then proceeded to poop all over himself again and again. Disgraced himself so badly he had no choice but to disappear.

Then, he got locked up for real w/o food or internet.

But I didn't do it!

*** shame the boy is missing a pretty fine playoff show
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 14, 2022, 11:04:14 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on May 13, 2022, 10:34:46 PM
Monster game.

This series is old school and reminds me of the classic '81 rockfight with Philly, arguably the greatest 7-gamer non-final in NBA history.

Both teams are exhausted.  Neither will say UNCLE - ever.

Great NBA show.
Title: Jinx or no-Jinx?
Post by: carlos123 on May 14, 2022, 11:57:02 AM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on May 14, 2022, 11:04:14 AM
Quote from: bank on May 13, 2022, 10:34:46 PM
Monster game.

This series is old school and reminds me of the classic '81 rockfight with Philly, arguably the greatest 7-gamer non-final in NBA history.

Both teams are exhausted.  Neither will say UNCLE - ever.

Great NBA show.

Well, you had Milwaukee winning it all.

So what is it now?
Title: BoZ and Z-Bo
Post by: carlos123 on May 14, 2022, 12:01:00 PM
Quote from: Les on May 14, 2022, 08:03:20 AM
Quote
"Shame Bo is not alive..."

You really are a no class little cunt.

I'm a "NCLC" most def, but my statement is not possibly true. Apparently nobody has died in China despite all these cases and fuss. Only place in the world where thousands get it and nobody kroaks!

People really gotta stop blaming the messagedawg 4 stuff.

All I did was this:

Respond "It depends on what you call normal" when he posted that crap about life in China being normal.

He then proceeded to poop all over himself again and again. Disgraced himself so badly he had no choice but to disappear.

Then, he got locked up for real w/o food or internet.

But I didn't do it!

*** shame the boy is missing a pretty fine playoff show

I think you should still send Z-Bo and his Posse to "investigate".

(https://media.tenor.com/images/f45dc3deb54ae86b9276bd0aaa790972/tenor.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: josh on May 14, 2022, 12:57:12 PM
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10035687-after-another-playoff-no-show-from-james-harden-brutal-questions-loom-for-76ers

His (soon to be former?) teammates expressed more than a little frustration about his no-show, to put it mildly.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on May 14, 2022, 02:33:34 PM
Quote from: josh on May 14, 2022, 12:57:12 PM
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10035687-after-another-playoff-no-show-from-james-harden-brutal-questions-loom-for-76ers

His (soon to be former?) teammates expressed more than a little frustration about his no-show, to put it mildly.

If they did, it's not in the article.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 14, 2022, 03:00:37 PM
Press meanderings...
Title: Re: Jinx or no-Jinx?
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 14, 2022, 03:01:18 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 14, 2022, 11:57:02 AM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on May 14, 2022, 11:04:14 AM
Quote from: bank on May 13, 2022, 10:34:46 PM
Monster game.

This series is old school and reminds me of the classic '81 rockfight with Philly, arguably the greatest 7-gamer non-final in NBA history.

Both teams are exhausted.  Neither will say UNCLE - ever.

Great NBA show.

Well, you had Milwaukee winning it all.

So what is it now?

What is what now?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 14, 2022, 03:05:59 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on May 13, 2022, 10:54:19 PM
Quote from: elephant on May 13, 2022, 07:23:42 PM
This idea in the NBA of blaming the coach for everything is nutty.

That said, I'm not sure the playoffs have been kind to Thibs. We really didn't have the talent to get into the top ten in the East?

I think we did.

I don't see any arguments for his inflexibility and lack of imagination. Yeah, Rose and Noel were injured, but most all the top teams dealt with significant injuries. It's just a really fluid, dynamic league now....and there's a real question whether Thib's old school wisdom and skillsets can take you anywhere anymore.

The problem I think was the front office wanted him to use Kemba as a starter when he should have been deep bench if used at all. In addition to not working it created disharmony that spread everywhere.

We had league best D after the allstar break. If we have a reasonably smart offseason we should be back in next year.

Not sure Noels injury impacted anything one way or the other.

Yeah

N doubt Thibs flumoxxed the Kemba thing
Title: Re: Jinx or no-Jinx?
Post by: carlos123 on May 14, 2022, 03:52:38 PM
Quote from: chamAAcocartero8 on May 14, 2022, 03:01:18 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 14, 2022, 11:57:02 AM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on May 14, 2022, 11:04:14 AM
Quote from: bank on May 13, 2022, 10:34:46 PM
Monster game.

This series is old school and reminds me of the classic '81 rockfight with Philly, arguably the greatest 7-gamer non-final in NBA history.

Both teams are exhausted.  Neither will say UNCLE - ever.

Great NBA show.

Well, you had Milwaukee winning it all.

So what is it now?

What is what now?

Who is winning it all, still Milwaukee?

Question: were you playing dumb?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 14, 2022, 07:33:51 PM
Watch and find out.  Some real good teams left.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: josh on May 14, 2022, 09:01:31 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 14, 2022, 07:33:51 PM
Watch and find out.  Some real good teams left.

IOW, he not only has no idea who will win but admits it for a change.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on May 14, 2022, 09:41:53 PM
Quote from: josh on May 14, 2022, 09:01:31 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 14, 2022, 07:33:51 PM
Watch and find out.  Some real good teams left.

IOW, he not only has no idea who will win but admits it for a change.

Mmmmmmmmmmmm
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 14, 2022, 11:24:43 PM
Sucks.  Gotta miss the Game Sevens tomorrow.  Enjoy everyone.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: josh on May 15, 2022, 12:24:01 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 14, 2022, 11:24:43 PM
Sucks.  Gotta miss the Game Sevens tomorrow.  Enjoy everyone.

I hope everything is all right.

I will watch the C's Bucks twice, just for you. Unless the C's lose.
Title: The Jinx#5?
Post by: carlos123 on May 15, 2022, 01:01:06 AM
Quote from: chipstern on May 14, 2022, 09:41:53 PM
Quote from: josh on May 14, 2022, 09:01:31 PM
Quote from: chamAAcocartero8 on May 14, 2022, 07:33:51 PM
Watch and find out.  Some real good teams left.

IOW, he not only has no idea who will win but admits it for a change.

Mmmmmmmmmmmm

FWIW, evidently not much, Chamaco had Milwaukee as favorites not only to eliminate Boston, but to win it all. He just does not feel confident any more, what else is new?
Title: The Jinx #5
Post by: carlos123 on May 15, 2022, 06:15:44 PM
This time without a question mark.

Chamaco is infallible. Every time he makes a prediction or has a favorite, it goes the other way.

He tried to get away from it once we all saw that Milwaukee was having a lot of trouble with Boston, but too late. He told us all, repeatedly, that Milwaukee was the favorite to win it all.

Dear Chamaco, please keep making predictions and imparting your wisdom with deep analysis, like heh and lol, too. You are a lot of fun!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on May 15, 2022, 08:38:28 PM
Carlos

kid will tell us he never bet his pic, but deep down inside he had the Celts.

How about them Celts.

Suffocating D, nice ball movement and hitting 3s.
Huge win Friday on the road, grreat win today.

I felt like a proud uncle watching my nephews recite their Haftorah portion.

Today they became men.

Another rock fight coming up.

My two value picks going head to head

And i gave it to kid pre-season.

Go Celts!
Title: Chamaco's bar mitzvah
Post by: carlos123 on May 15, 2022, 09:00:37 PM
Quote from: Bank on May 15, 2022, 08:38:28 PM
Carlos

kid will tell us he never bet his pic, but deep down inside he had the Celts.

How about them Celts.

Suffocating D, nice ball movement and hitting 3s.
Huge win Friday on the road, grreat win today.

I felt like a proud uncle watching my nephews recite their Haftorah portion.

Today they became men.

Another rock fight coming up.

My two value picks going head to head

And i gave it to kid pre-season.

Go Celts!

Bank, Chamaco dont know about Haftorah. Probably dont know about bar mitzvah either.

He may not even bet on anything, just tells us he does because that makes him feel important.

And he will sure tell us he never made the Milwaukee prediction.

What can you do? I just enjoy it.

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: josh on May 16, 2022, 01:44:17 AM
https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/2022/05/13/espn-used-image-columbus-during-milwaukee-bucks-nba-playoff-game/9771900002/?itm_medium=recirc&itm_source=taboola&itm_campaign=internal&itm_content=BelowArticleFeed-FeedRedesign
Title: Hey Bank
Post by: carlos123 on May 16, 2022, 05:33:49 PM
I voted Celtics in 7 just for you.
Also, I dislike the Heat more than the Celtics.
Very important: mine is NOT an expert opinion.

PS. Chamaco is not going to offer an expert opinion this time. I think he knows he jinxes things.

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 16, 2022, 06:39:08 PM
Good Hollinger piece on what happened to Bucks & Suns...

https://theathletic.com/3314194/2022/05/16/nba-playoffs-suns-bucks-spaceball/ (https://theathletic.com/3314194/2022/05/16/nba-playoffs-suns-bucks-spaceball/)
Title: Les's press
Post by: carlos123 on May 16, 2022, 06:50:49 PM
Quote from: Les on May 16, 2022, 06:39:08 PM
Good Hollinger piece on what happened to Bucks & Suns...

https://theathletic.com/3314194/2022/05/16/nba-playoffs-suns-bucks-spaceball/ (https://theathletic.com/3314194/2022/05/16/nba-playoffs-suns-bucks-spaceball/)

Les, thanks for the link, but the site is blocked unless you subscribe.
Title: Re: Les's press
Post by: josh on May 16, 2022, 07:03:21 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 16, 2022, 06:50:49 PM
Quote from: Les on May 16, 2022, 06:39:08 PM
Good Hollinger piece on what happened to Bucks & Suns...

https://theathletic.com/3314194/2022/05/16/nba-playoffs-suns-bucks-spaceball/ (https://theathletic.com/3314194/2022/05/16/nba-playoffs-suns-bucks-spaceball/)

Les, thanks for the link, but the site is blocked unless you subscribe.

Here you go, Carlos!

https://archive.ph/ZTY6d
Title: Rokas Jokubaitis
Post by: chipstern on May 16, 2022, 07:46:07 PM
https://nypost.com/2022/05/16/knicks-plan-for-rokas-jokubaitis-as-he-impresses-in-euroleague/ (https://nypost.com/2022/05/16/knicks-plan-for-rokas-jokubaitis-as-he-impresses-in-euroleague/)

Berman says the Knicks are impressed. 

Inclined towards him gettting another year of experience under his belt, and getting stronger. 

Additionally...

With all of the expiring contracts come the summer of 2023, they will have cap space flexibility. 

Last August Jokubaitis played in three summer league games and the Knicks were happy with his ballhandling, basketball IQ and tenacity as a defender.
Title: Re: Les's press
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 16, 2022, 08:08:48 PM
Quote from: josh on May 16, 2022, 07:03:21 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 16, 2022, 06:50:49 PM
Quote from: Les on May 16, 2022, 06:39:08 PM
Good Hollinger piece on what happened to Bucks & Suns...

https://theathletic.com/3314194/2022/05/16/nba-playoffs-suns-bucks-spaceball/ (https://theathletic.com/3314194/2022/05/16/nba-playoffs-suns-bucks-spaceball/)

Les, thanks for the link, but the site is blocked unless you subscribe.

Here you go, Carlos!

https://archive.ph/ZTY6d

Hey - mod aint such a prick sometimes

Thanks, Mod.
Title: Re: Les's press
Post by: carlos123 on May 16, 2022, 09:50:20 PM
Quote from: josh on May 16, 2022, 07:03:21 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 16, 2022, 06:50:49 PM
Quote from: Les on May 16, 2022, 06:39:08 PM
Good Hollinger piece on what happened to Bucks & Suns...

https://theathletic.com/3314194/2022/05/16/nba-playoffs-suns-bucks-spaceball/ (https://theathletic.com/3314194/2022/05/16/nba-playoffs-suns-bucks-spaceball/)

Les, thanks for the link, but the site is blocked unless you subscribe.

Here you go, Carlos!

https://archive.ph/ZTY6d

Thanks Josh.

No idea why ChamAAco is posting that "mod aint such a prick sometimes".

The ways of ChamAAco are mysterious.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 16, 2022, 10:47:10 PM
Maybe we can get Frank back til Joku is ready

heh




Last August Jokubaitis played in three summer league games and the Knicks were happy with his ballhandling, basketball IQ and tenacity as a defender.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 17, 2022, 10:25:48 AM
Knicks starting PG will be from this list


Paul
Schroder
Lo Ball
Harden
Fox
Sexton
Brunson
Westbrook
Ivey (draft, trade up)
Washington (draft)
Rubio
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on May 17, 2022, 12:15:36 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 17, 2022, 10:25:48 AM
Knicks starting PG will be from this list


Paul
Schroder
Lo Ball
Harden
Fox
Sexton
Brunson
Westbrook
Ivey (draft, trade up)
Washington (draft)
Rubio

Nonsensical

Illusional Bordering On The Delusional
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 17, 2022, 07:12:17 PM
I will take Quickley with Rose backing him up and McBride as next up. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on May 17, 2022, 08:36:24 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on May 17, 2022, 07:12:17 PM
I will take Quickley with Rose backing him up and McBride as next up.

Thank You
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 18, 2022, 07:12:39 AM
Yes -and we all know Fac's decision making has aligned with Thibs all along.

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 18, 2022, 07:20:49 AM
Rockets already talking about moving the #3 pick

Good landing spot for IQ,as we move up for Ivey or Banchero.
Title: Duh
Post by: chipstern on May 18, 2022, 01:21:34 PM
More phantasmagorical twaddle.

So, IQ gets us the #3 pick.

Uh huh.

Porter is their PG.

OTHERWISE.

Harden?

Uh huh.

Paul?

Haha

Fox?

Kings traded Haliburton.  Dearon is the man.

Ball?

Wishful thinking.  PS: His knee is not healing.

Paul?

Haha AGAIN.

Brunson?

PuhLeese.  Mavs giving him his money.

Schroeder?

Why?  Washed out with Lakers, Celtics and Rockets. Better than Rose or IQ.  Team first guy?

Sexton?

Cavs on the rise.  They'll work something out. In any event, we have no cap space.  And not a good match for a trade.

Westbrook?

Don't Bogart that joint...

Draft trade up for Ivey?

To dream the impossible dream

TyTy?

A possibility if he drops.  If the kid from Baylor drops, that would seem like a Thibs kinda guy.

Rubio?

Love Ricky, but a day late and a dollar short.  Coming off a season ending injury.  Like Rose.  We're going to cancel IQ to give Rubio the ball?

Not to mention RR has a nice bond with the up and coming Cavs.

PPS: REMAINS TO BE SEEN IF WE PACKAGE THE PICK.  We have like 8 up and coming puppies.  Unless we move several vets, not sure where another puppy fits. 

PPPS: And we are just as likely to trade down as up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 18, 2022, 01:49:31 PM
So, IQ gets us the #3 pick.


Well, we have to give them our pick as well.  Likely other arrangements.  Usually when you like a  player as much as you do Immanuel,you dont then go and shit on his value.

Doesn't have to be Quickley.  We can keep him if going for Banchero.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on May 18, 2022, 02:12:04 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on May 18, 2022, 01:49:31 PM
So, IQ gets us the #3 pick.


Well, we have to give them our pick as well.  Likely other arrangements.  Usually when you like a  player as much as you do Immanuel,you dont then go and shit on his value.

Doesn't have to be Quickley.  We can keep him if going for Banchero.

IQ and #11 for #3

?

Not feeling you.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 18, 2022, 02:30:07 PM
Just say you like Quickley over Ivey and be done with it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on May 18, 2022, 06:37:30 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on May 18, 2022, 02:30:07 PM
Just say you like Quickley over Ivey and be done with it.

Kiss my grits, genius

Ivey is going to be long gone  by the time we pick. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 18, 2022, 08:34:19 PM
Thus the trade up, dumb fuck.  HOU has said  they are willing to deal.

Look at their roster, see if there is anyone else you may wish to poach.  Sengun maybe?  After all, IQ is AllStar ready, right?
Title: Kiid: MAKES HIS OWN GRAVY
Post by: chipstern on May 18, 2022, 11:41:48 PM
EZ
Peezy

I didn't realize it would be so simple to cop the Rockets #3 pick.

Who knew?

We are none of us worthy to bask in the penumbra of your wisdom. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 19, 2022, 02:54:23 AM
YOUR "wisdom" is you dont want the pick


heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 19, 2022, 09:07:38 AM
Not sure they will win the game but I like Boston plus 3.5 tonight.  No Horfodd but Smart is back.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 19, 2022, 05:40:19 PM
Tari Eason has the biggest hands measured at the combine. Dyson Daniels has legit wing size. Mathurin and Sharpe are physically SGs rather than wings. A lot of guys did not measure there this year.

There are some seriously big bodies in the draft this year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 19, 2022, 06:00:45 PM
We could deal up and take the Zaga kid if we are dealing Mitch.
Title: AAAH SHADDUP [Foghorn Kiidhorn]
Post by: chipstern on May 19, 2022, 06:07:17 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on May 19, 2022, 02:54:23 AM
YOUR "wisdom" is you dont want the pick

heh

Kiid's got a mind like a steel trap--full of mice.

(https://i.imgflip.com/2tnxwo.gif)

That Kiid is about as sharp as a pound of wet liver.

(https://c.tenor.com/9_Hhq2DaxtEAAAAC/foghorn-leghorn-looney-tunes.gif)

That Kiid is as subtle as a hand grenade in a barrrel of oat meal.
Title: Irony Alert
Post by: chipstern on May 19, 2022, 07:06:28 PM
The Knicks have hired Tim Hardaway [Senior] as a SCOUT. 

Too bad we couldn't hire him as a Point Guard.  Some sort of competitor. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 19, 2022, 09:55:57 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 19, 2022, 09:07:38 AM
Not sure they will win the game but I like Boston plus 3.5 tonight.  No Horfodd but Smart is back.


check

(not sure how C's get Al back so quick)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 19, 2022, 10:03:25 PM
Group of mock drafts

https://www.nba.com/news/2022-consensus-mock-draft
Title: No Jinx?
Post by: carlos123 on May 19, 2022, 10:09:44 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on May 19, 2022, 09:55:57 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on May 19, 2022, 09:07:38 AM
Not sure they will win the game but I like Boston plus 3.5 tonight.  No Horfodd but Smart is back.


check

(not sure how C's get Al back so quick)

So new and refreshing to see Chamaco quoting Chamaco!

Anyway, I think he still has The Jinx. What happened is that, because he knows it, he PRETENDED that he was for Boston this time, just to make sure they would lose. But Chamaco's Jinx knows everything about Chamaco, so it did the opposite of what Chamaco truly wanted.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: josh on May 19, 2022, 10:57:31 PM
4 minutes of garbage time.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on May 20, 2022, 09:07:26 AM
Quote from: josh on May 19, 2022, 10:57:31 PM
4 minutes of garbage time.

And 44 minutes of fury.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on May 20, 2022, 09:28:44 AM
Quote from: chipstern on May 20, 2022, 09:07:26 AM
Quote from: josh on May 19, 2022, 10:57:31 PM
4 minutes of garbage time.

And 44 minutes of fury.

My man Marcus played his ass off last night.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on May 20, 2022, 06:06:56 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on May 20, 2022, 09:28:44 AM
Quote from: chipstern on May 20, 2022, 09:07:26 AM
Quote from: josh on May 19, 2022, 10:57:31 PM
4 minutes of garbage time.

And 44 minutes of fury.

My man Marcus played his ass off last night.

Too bad Ainge traded the draft rights to Demond Bane.  Could've been the Celtics Tyler Herro. 

Still, Pritchard not too shabby. 

I always loved marcus Smart.

When there were rumors of Smart being on the block [much of it stories of negativity propagated by that dreary sack of potatoes, Kendrick Perkins], I channelled my inner Facil and lit a candle.  If ever there were a player built for Coach Thibs, it is Smart.  Perkins was also advancing the dumbass theory of how the Celtics needed to break up Jaylen and Jayson.  I mean, DUH...

Which reminds me, when listening to dipshits creating fantasy trades for Donovan Mitchell [no disprespect to DM] and imagining ways to move up in the draft, inevitably, R.J. Barrett's name comes up. 

In observing Jimmy Butler's continued ascent, and tracking its parallels with RJ's development three years in, still only fucking 21, my message to Knicks fans, is...

CHILL
Title: Draft Possibilities Of Some Interest To Chip
Post by: chipstern on May 20, 2022, 07:42:10 PM
Players we might have a resonable chance of seeing at #11

Dyson Daniels
6'8" PG/SG
G LEAGUE IGNITE/AUSTRALIA

TyTy Washington
6'3" PG
KENTUCKY

Jeremy Sochan
6'9" WING
BAYLOR

Bennedict Mathurin
6'7" WING
ARIZONA

Mark Williams
7'0" C
DUKE

Jalen Duren
6'11" PF/C
MEMPHIS

KEVIN O'CONNOR'S Mock

https://nbadraft.theringer.com/mock-draft (https://nbadraft.theringer.com/mock-draft)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on May 20, 2022, 10:46:09 PM
Quote from: chipstern on May 20, 2022, 06:06:56 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on May 20, 2022, 09:28:44 AM
Quote from: chipstern on May 20, 2022, 09:07:26 AM
Quote from: josh on May 19, 2022, 10:57:31 PM
4 minutes of garbage time.

And 44 minutes of fury.

My man Marcus played his ass off last night.

Too bad Ainge traded the draft rights to Demond Bane.  Could've been the Celtics Tyler Herro. 

Still, Pritchard not too shabby. 

I always loved marcus Smart.

When there were rumors of Smart being on the block [much of it stories of negativity propagated by that dreary sack of potatoes, Kendrick Perkins], I channelled my inner Facil and lit a candle.  If ever there were a player built for Coach Thibs, it is Smart.  Perkins was also advancing the dumbass theory of how the Celtics needed to break up Jaylen and Jayson.  I mean, DUH...

CHILL
I think if one reflects upon the Celts roster, with its core almost entirely homegrown, )Tatum, Brown, Smart, TimeLord, Grant) and as posted previously 8 #1s (now 7), the team is young and under contract for the next few years, I can't get too upset with Ainge trading one of his 3 2020 1s (the 30th pick) for (IIRC) 2 #2s in out years. This team could be a 2-way monster for the next few years. I love the way they play ball. Both ends. Tenacious D, transition ball, and ball movement leading to good shots.

They are becoming the team i imagined they might become.

I think Ainge did a great job rebuilding from 2012, and with just a little luck would have played in 1 or 2 Finals, rather than losing to the Cavs and Heat in the ECF in '18 and '20.

As for Smart I'm just glad that Brad knew what he had, and that Ime did too. And ignored the hot takes from the pundits. And did not give in to idiots when the Celts struggled early. There was so much tslent on that team it just had to be channeled and focused.

As posted for years, Smart is an acquired taste, not for every team. He plays to the sound of a different drummer, and sometimes is incomprehensible, but he makes so many plays, its hard to deny his value. He (and Cowens, who was a very similiar player in many regards) is one of my all-time favorite Celts.

His intensity and desire is usually fun to watch. But at times is infuriating.

I think Ime helped him mature and to channel his craziness.

 
Title: Knicks Fans?
Post by: carlos123 on May 20, 2022, 10:58:28 PM
Quote from: Chip on May 20, 2022, 06:06:56 PM
... ... ...
Which reminds me, when listening to dipshits creating fantasy trades for Donovan Mitchell [no disprespect to DM] and imagining ways to move up in the draft, inevitably, R.J. Barrett's name comes up. 

In observing Jimmy Butler's continued ascent, and tracking its parallels with RJ's development three years in, still only fucking 21, my message to Knicks fans, is...

CHILL

Chip, I am not sure many Knicks fans even think about trading RJB.

Ok, maybe some idiots do.

And Chamaco certainly does, but does he really count as a Knicks fan?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 21, 2022, 09:31:41 AM
Giving  Barrett a max deal, are ya, Los?
Title: Re: Draft Possibilities Of Some Interest To Chip
Post by: facilitatorn on May 21, 2022, 01:46:37 PM
Quote from: chipstern on May 20, 2022, 07:42:10 PM
Players we might have a resonable chance of seeing at #11

Dyson Daniels
6'8" PG/SG
G LEAGUE IGNITE/AUSTRALIA

TyTy Washington
6'3" PG
KENTUCKY

Jeremy Sochan
6'9" WING
BAYLOR

Bennedict Mathurin
6'7" WING
ARIZONA

Mark Williams
7'0" C
DUKE

Jalen Duren
6'11" PF/C
MEMPHIS

KEVIN O'CONNOR'S Mock

https://nbadraft.theringer.com/mock-draft (https://nbadraft.theringer.com/mock-draft)

Add Tari Eason to that list and you have everyone interesting in our range.
Title: How about market value?
Post by: carlos123 on May 21, 2022, 05:15:55 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on May 21, 2022, 09:31:41 AM
Giving  Barrett a max deal, are ya, Los?

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLW7GtkO0uOd1uQ5lhXF05Ise4h_yF_WyxHhiFIIXvPRJCJIBJ9HaSMqMB2-pFHV5Gsz9HwHf27zfe1gRgwEjE8drhWLiU_8VQjKBMxyk1V_5ewz4C5VIW4ZvaeS5hPlhCMNt1nXi-FxdEb3CV4u2nA8=w626-h570-no?authuser=0)
LMAO
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 21, 2022, 05:54:31 PM
Keegan Murray is a prospect it might be worth moving a future asset or two to move up for.
Title: Re: Draft Possibilities Of Some Interest To Chip
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 21, 2022, 05:55:50 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on May 21, 2022, 01:46:37 PM
Quote from: chipstern on May 20, 2022, 07:42:10 PM
Players we might have a resonable chance of seeing at #11

Dyson Daniels
6'8" PG/SG
G LEAGUE IGNITE/AUSTRALIA

TyTy Washington
6'3" PG
KENTUCKY

Jeremy Sochan
6'9" WING
BAYLOR

Bennedict Mathurin
6'7" WING
ARIZONA

Mark Williams
7'0" C
DUKE

Jalen Duren
6'11" PF/C
MEMPHIS

KEVIN O'CONNOR'S Mock

https://nbadraft.theringer.com/mock-draft (https://nbadraft.theringer.com/mock-draft)

Add Tari Eason to that list and you have everyone interesting in our range.

Agbaji of Kansas

And young Mr Wesley (PG alert) out of Notre Dame

If we had another pick - would love a look at Gillespie or Pippen Jr

Title: Warriors Dynasty...Emphasis On NASTY
Post by: chipstern on May 23, 2022, 12:26:30 PM
Without the pressure to be the main, guy, Andrew Wiggins, all of 26, has over three years with GS evolved into a a top tier complementary player.  He led the team in 3-point percentage this season, among other things.  Emerged as a fine defender as well. 

The Warriors combination of vets and youth is scary. 

I mean, Jordon Poole is 22, for fuck's sake, and along with Steph and Klay, a +90% FT Shooer.  YIKES. 

Moses Moody and Jonathan Kuminga [the #1 the Warriors copped from the T-Wolves in the D'Angelo for Wiggins exchange] are both 19. 

Seven Footer James Wiseman is 21, and averaged a very respectable 11.5/5.8 his rookie year, in 21 minutes, before getting hurt.  Warriors have been very cautious and proactive in nursing him back, and with the ever improving Kevon Looney, all of 26, and raising his rebounding totals to a new high this season, there is no pressure on Wiseman to either be rushed back or tasked with too large a load. 

ADDENDUM: The 33 year old Curry appears to be in peak physical condition, and showing no signs of slowing down or losing his mojo.  Magnificent.  Betcha Mike D'Antoni still wakes up nights in a cold sweat thinking about how Step went one spot below us in the draft, leaving Donnie Douche to use our #8 pick on Foghorn Kiidhorn all-time fave, Jordan Hill.

HOWEVER, while he is due to pocket $45,780,966, $48,070,014, $51,915,615, $55,761,217, $59,606,817 through 2025-26, apparently Steph still feels compelled to pocket major endorsement fees by shilling for such decidely dubious scams as the Subway sandwiches franchise and CryptoCurrency...CRYPTO, for fuck's sake.  Seriously Steph? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 23, 2022, 02:03:42 PM
Chip hated Wiggins when Warriors dealt for him.

I couldnt talk sense into him.
Title: Hardy Har Har
Post by: chipstern on May 23, 2022, 04:12:57 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on May 23, 2022, 02:03:42 PM
Chip hated Wiggins when Warriors dealt for him.

I couldnt talk sense into him.

What sentient being would take the word of Foghorn Kiidhorn seriously, the man [well, man is stretching it] who continuously mocked Jayson Tatum, who steadfastly touted Jimmer Fredette as a top tier NBA point guard talent, and who with a straight face asserted that a #1 draft choice by the name of Jordan Hill, who lasted all of 24 games as a Knick, was a great draft pick, taken one spot ahead of DeMar DeRozan.

HonkHonk.

The line forms on the left to squeeze Foghorn's funny nose. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 23, 2022, 05:19:19 PM
What sentient being would take the word of Foghorn Kiidhorn seriously, the man [well, man is stretching it] who continuously mocked Jayson Tatum (YES, FOR FUN, but liked himmore than any here pre-draft) , who steadfastly touted Jimmer Fredette as a top tier NBA point guard talent (NO, JUST AS A GUY WHO deserved some minutes, to be in the league - and he was, Knicks treatment be damned)  , and who with a straight face asserted that a #1 draft choice by the name of Jordan Hill, who lasted all of 24 games as a Knick, was a great draft pick, taken one spot ahead of DeMar DeRozan (AGAIN, I LIKED DEROZEN MORE THAN MOST HERE - maany figured he had severe NBA limitation - will never deny I liked Hill, who was a solid pro who we should not have dealt).


Cheers, Stubby.
Title: Re: Hardy Har Har
Post by: facilitatorn on May 23, 2022, 05:43:38 PM
Quote from: chipstern on May 23, 2022, 04:12:57 PM

HonkHonk.

The line forms on the left to squeeze Foghorn's funny nose.

Fuck that.

Let jam boy get his own jollies.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 23, 2022, 05:50:59 PM
Good luck tonight, Boston.  You guys are where you should be - chance to take a big step but its not expected.  Pretty good season after how it began.   EAST will be tougher in '22-'23.

Eddie Johnson (NBA Radio) feels Celts and not Heat have a fighting chance vs Dubs.  Not sure we find out.

Marcus Smart (and to a lesser extent - Mr Tucker) -please do not ruin the view tonight.  Play basketball, bro.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: josh on May 23, 2022, 09:23:55 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on May 23, 2022, 05:50:59 PM
Good luck tonight, Boston.  You guys are where you should be - chance to take a big step but its not expected.  Pretty good season after how it began.   EAST will be tougher in '22-'23.

Eddie Johnson (NBA Radio) feels Celts and not Heat have a fighting chance vs Dubs.  Not sure we find out.

Marcus Smart (and to a lesser extent - Mr Tucker) -please do not ruin the view tonight.  Play basketball, bro.

I don't think Marcus Smart is going to "ruin the view" tonight, whatever that even means.
Title: Chamaco's likes and dislikes
Post by: carlos123 on May 23, 2022, 10:20:25 PM
Quote from: josh on May 23, 2022, 09:23:55 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on May 23, 2022, 05:50:59 PM
Good luck tonight, Boston.  You guys are where you should be - chance to take a big step but its not expected.  Pretty good season after how it began.   EAST will be tougher in '22-'23.

Eddie Johnson (NBA Radio) feels Celts and not Heat have a fighting chance vs Dubs.  Not sure we find out.

Marcus Smart (and to a lesser extent - Mr Tucker) -please do not ruin the view tonight.  Play basketball, bro.

I don't think Marcus Smart is going to "ruin the view" tonight, whatever that even means.

Josh, it is easy: I think Chamaco does not like green hair.
Title: Re: Warriors Dynasty...Emphasis On NASTY
Post by: elephant on May 24, 2022, 01:49:21 PM
Quote from: chipstern on May 23, 2022, 12:26:30 PM

HOWEVER, while he is due to pocket $45,780,966, $48,070,014, $51,915,615, $55,761,217, $59,606,817 through 2025-26, apparently Steph still feels compelled to pocket major endorsement fees by shilling for such decidely dubious scams as the Subway sandwiches franchise and CryptoCurrency...CRYPTO, for fuck's sake.  Seriously Steph?

Yeah, this is an embarrassment. These millionaire athletes touting crypto are going to hurt a lot of folks who don't have millions.

Combination of greed and ignorance. Not a good look.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on May 24, 2022, 01:52:45 PM
Quote from: chipstern on May 20, 2022, 06:06:56 PM

I always loved marcus Smart.

When there were rumors of Smart being on the block [much of it stories of negativity propagated by that dreary sack of potatoes, Kendrick Perkins], I channelled my inner Facil and lit a candle.  If ever there were a player built for Coach Thibs, it is Smart. 

Totally agree. Would have been perfect.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on May 24, 2022, 02:04:57 PM
Quote from: chipstern on May 20, 2022, 06:06:56 PM

Which reminds me, when listening to dipshits creating fantasy trades for Donovan Mitchell [no disprespect to DM] and imagining ways to move up in the draft, inevitably, R.J. Barrett's name comes up. 

In observing Jimmy Butler's continued ascent, and tracking its parallels with RJ's development three years in, still only fucking 21, my message to Knicks fans, is...


Well, I always felt Donovan Mitchell would be a great complement WITH Barrett.

But if you had to choose between the two?

Mitchell has proven excellence. He can single-handedly take over a game. Barrett seems to be moving in that direction.

But a few weeks back, I posted this interesting analysis of Barrett that looked at his performance so far. Compares his first 3 years to that of other guys who are now certainly stars, and finds that so far the numbers indicate Barrett is unlikely to make the jump.

Of course, no one knows.

https://www.reddit.com/r/NYKnicks/comments/u9w1dy/rj_vs_allstar_wings/?sort=top (https://www.reddit.com/r/NYKnicks/comments/u9w1dy/rj_vs_allstar_wings/?sort=top)

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 24, 2022, 02:32:40 PM
Which reminds me, when listening to dipshits creating fantasy trades for Donovan Mitchell  no disprespect to DM and imagining ways to move up in the draft, inevitably, R.J. Barretts  name comes up.


Who are you speaking of?

Dont bring the idiocy of other websites here.
Title: Re: Warriors Dynasty...Emphasis On NASTY
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 24, 2022, 02:34:12 PM
Quote from: elephant on May 24, 2022, 01:49:21 PM
Quote from: chipstern on May 23, 2022, 12:26:30 PM

HOWEVER, while he is due to pocket $45,780,966, $48,070,014, $51,915,615, $55,761,217, $59,606,817 through 2025-26, apparently Steph still feels compelled to pocket major endorsement fees by shilling for such decidely dubious scams as the Subway sandwiches franchise and CryptoCurrency...CRYPTO, for fuck's sake.  Seriously Steph?

Yeah, this is an embarrassment. These millionaire athletes touting crypto are going to hurt a lot of folks who don't have millions.

Combination of greed and ignorance. Not a good look.

Steph got in early on Bitcoin.  Dont be bitter.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on May 24, 2022, 05:21:39 PM
Either you're reading too quickly....

Or you're a bit dull upstairs.
Title: Re: Warriors Dynasty...Emphasis On NASTY
Post by: bankshot1 on May 25, 2022, 12:04:53 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on May 24, 2022, 02:34:12 PM
Quote from: elephant on May 24, 2022, 01:49:21 PM
Quote from: chipstern on May 23, 2022, 12:26:30 PM

HOWEVER, while he is due to pocket $45,780,966, $48,070,014, $51,915,615, $55,761,217, $59,606,817 through 2025-26, apparently Steph still feels compelled to pocket major endorsement fees by shilling for such decidely dubious scams as the Subway sandwiches franchise and CryptoCurrency...CRYPTO, for fuck's sake.  Seriously Steph?

Yeah, this is an embarrassment. These millionaire athletes touting crypto are going to hurt a lot of folks who don't have millions.

Combination of greed and ignorance. Not a good look.

Steph got in early on Bitcoin.  Dont be bitter.

And kid was early on Tatum.

Unfortunately for kid he shorted him early and often and kept on doubling down.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2022/05/24/sports/jayson-tatum-named-all-nba-first-team/ (https://www.bostonglobe.com/2022/05/24/sports/jayson-tatum-named-all-nba-first-team/)

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 25, 2022, 09:55:24 AM
Embiid was screwed
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: josh on May 25, 2022, 02:02:36 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on May 25, 2022, 09:55:24 AM
Embiid was screwed

I hope he enjoyed it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on May 25, 2022, 02:08:45 PM
I think a healthy Embiid (I suppose that's a problematic idea) is the best player in the NBA.  It's unfortunate he had to play with James Harden.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 25, 2022, 03:31:54 PM
My hopes if we stay at 11 are Eason, Sochan, and Daniels in that order.

If we pay Mitch, draft, and do nothing else we could see this kind of rotation next year

Mitch Jericho
Randle Toppin Gibson
Reddish rook Fournier
RJ Grimes Burks
IQ Rose McBride

That is the kind of defensive wall Thibs likes to impose. We can keep our situational vets and a developmental player or two.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 25, 2022, 04:04:28 PM
Yes

Clearly Reddish will start
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: josh on May 25, 2022, 06:13:25 PM
Who wins tonight's Game 5?

Celtics or Heat?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on May 25, 2022, 06:57:54 PM
Quote from: josh on May 25, 2022, 06:13:25 PM
Who wins tonight's Game 5?

Celtics or Heat?

Good question. 

Tell you one thing.  Miami is going to be feisty. 

Not sure is Butler is hurting, and they surely miss Herro. 

Mmmmmm...Celtics. 
Title: Wet Dreams
Post by: chipstern on May 25, 2022, 07:10:40 PM
Berman in the POST with a teaser about Leon Rose's CAA connection to 6'4" Combo Guard Jaden Ivey. 

Hey, what's not to like. 

If I'm Trader Facil, I'm offering Julius Randle and our #11 [and/or one of our 2023 #1 picks] for the Kings #4 pick. 

Or maybe a sign and trade of Mitchell, who I think would probably be a better fit with Sabonis. 

Sabonis-Robinson/Randle-Barnes-Mitchell-Fox
Holmes-Lyles-Lamb

This is a wet dream and something of a stretch. 

Another team or two involved? 

Wish it was tenable, but I'm kind of doubting it. 

Draft on Thursday, June 23.  A month away. 

Be interesting to see if the Brain Trust has a clue, let alone a plan. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on May 25, 2022, 11:29:52 PM
Celts suffocated Heat.

But as good as the Celts D is, I can only assume Butler is broken, Bam is broken, Lowry is obese and Herro isn't ready for prime time, to really account for that offensive output.

BUTAWINZAWIN
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: josh on May 25, 2022, 11:37:05 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on May 25, 2022, 11:29:52 PM
Celts suffocated Heat.

But as good as the Celts D is, I can only assume Butler is broken, Bam is broken, Lowry is obese and Herro isn't ready for prime time, to really account for that offensive output.

BUTAWINZAWIN

About midway through Q1 I said "whichever team starts to hit its shots wins."
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on May 25, 2022, 11:43:54 PM
When I heard Smart and Timelord were good to go tonight, I felt pretty good about the Celt's chances tonight. Heat have a tough time 
matching-up with healthy Celts. Just not deep or talented enough. But fuck they are tough and disciplined and can win a knife fight.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on May 26, 2022, 01:50:27 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on May 25, 2022, 11:29:52 PM
Celts suffocated Heat.

But as good as the Celts D is, I can only assume Butler is broken, Bam is broken, Lowry is obese and Herro isn't ready for prime time, to really account for that offensive output.

BUTAWINZAWIN

Yes

I was taking note of Lowry's corpulent.

Kind of shocking.

And again, something is amiss with Butler, and Tucker was a non factor.

Once Jaylen found his shot, it was over.

Heat had a very Knicks third quarter..

Love me some Al Horford.  Hope Robert Williams is healthy enough for the Finals.

Finals?

Celtics have Heat on the ropes
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 26, 2022, 11:32:29 AM
If I  am Trader Facil, I  am offering Julius Randle and our  number 11  and  or one of our 2023  number 1 picks  for the Kings  number 4 pick.


Attaboy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on May 26, 2022, 11:43:53 AM
Quote from: chipstern on May 26, 2022, 01:50:27 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on May 25, 2022, 11:29:52 PM
Celts suffocated Heat.

But as good as the Celts D is, I can only assume Butler is broken, Bam is broken, Lowry is obese and Herro isn't ready for prime time, to really account for that offensive output.

BUTAWINZAWIN

Love me some Al Horford.  Hope Robert Williams is healthy enough for the Finals.

Finals?

Celtics have Heat on the ropes

Al has been tremendous all year A great reunion.

TimeLord is the apex aerial predator of the parquet. If its in the air it is his prey to be hunted and devoured.

The Navis refer to him as "Last Shadow".

I hope he can stay healthy as his defensive skills in particular his shot blocking is NBA ultra special.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 26, 2022, 07:28:30 PM
All gravy for Boston now.  Taking Miami to a Game Seven is a win.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: josh on May 26, 2022, 07:31:50 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on May 26, 2022, 07:28:30 PM
All gravy for Boston now.  Taking Miami to a Game Seven is a win.

Not anymore.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 26, 2022, 08:49:00 PM
Knicks should be in if they make Zion available

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/33988881/new-orleans-pelicans-zion-williamson-cleared-return-restrictions-paving-way-2022-23-return
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: josh on May 26, 2022, 10:02:44 PM
Looks like GSW's going to have a few days off.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: josh on May 26, 2022, 11:25:22 PM
Quote from: josh on May 26, 2022, 10:02:44 PM
Looks like GSW's going to have a few days off.

Closer score at the end than it might have been, but it just wasn't that close.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 27, 2022, 08:14:46 AM
Yeah - thanks

Should be an OK Finals.  Draymond shennigans vs Smart's - or Tucker's. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: josh on May 27, 2022, 12:39:27 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on May 27, 2022, 08:14:46 AM
Yeah - thanks

Should be an OK Finals.  Draymond shennigans vs Smart's - or Tucker's.

Athletic has an article about why there are so many blow-outs in the playoffs this year and, in general, more in the playoffs than the regular season.

Apparently, this series has seen only 5 lead changes, total, thus far, with 3 of them being early in Game 5. Crazy.
Title: To be a Knick's fan is to suffer
Post by: chipstern on May 27, 2022, 02:58:08 PM
Apparently there has been an EX KNICK in every NBA finals for 39 years. French Frank gave it an honest effort but fell short and now it's down to to Luke Kornet and the Celtics to sustain this pathetic streak
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 27, 2022, 06:42:14 PM
Its over

Taking Boston -9 tonight
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: josh on May 27, 2022, 11:15:41 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 27, 2022, 06:42:14 PM
Its over

Taking Boston -9 tonight

Boston may survive and end up with the win, but they sure aren't going to win by 9.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: josh on May 27, 2022, 11:25:07 PM
I really felt that the Refs changed how they called the game in the latter half of this one.

Not for or against either team, but much tighter than it had been.

Congratulations to the Heat on the first game tight most of the way through.
Title: Jimmy Butler
Post by: chipstern on May 27, 2022, 11:26:07 PM
👁👀👁
Title: The Jinx #6
Post by: carlos123 on May 27, 2022, 11:26:57 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 27, 2022, 06:42:14 PM
Its over

Taking Boston -9 tonight

THE JINX IS REAL

Bank, if I were you I would ask, no, not ask but BEG Chamaco to PLEASE, PLEASE do not bet or root for the Celts ever again, down on my knees if necessary.
Title: Re: The Jinx #6
Post by: bankshot1 on May 28, 2022, 12:30:04 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 27, 2022, 11:26:57 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on May 27, 2022, 06:42:14 PM
Its over

Taking Boston -9 tonight

THE JINX IS REAL

Bank, if I were you I would ask, no, not ask but BEG Chamaco to PLEASE, PLEASE do not bet or root for the Celts ever again, down on my knees if necessary.
Carlos I don't pay much attention to kid's BS, he's just an idiot troll.

Weird game tonight. Everyone had th Heat dead and buried, too hurt to play and they came up huge.

Celts not so much.

Marcus had a brutal game, (Coach Ime should have benched him)  Al and TL pretty much non-factors, but basically it took an all-time great performance by Butler to win it.

G7 Sunday and I've got no idea what to expect.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 28, 2022, 12:14:43 PM
Al didn't shoot well but played well.  Smarts antics simply can't help his team's mindset.  Williams was fine though he took one ghastly shot (poor decision).  Grant W needed his mommy.
Title: Re: The Jinx #6
Post by: carlos123 on May 28, 2022, 01:07:22 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on May 28, 2022, 12:30:04 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 27, 2022, 11:26:57 PM
Quote from: chamAAcocartero8 on May 27, 2022, 06:42:14 PM
Its over

Taking Boston -9 tonight

THE JINX IS REAL

Bank, if I were you I would ask, no, not ask but BEG Chamaco to PLEASE, PLEASE do not bet or root for the Celts ever again, down on my knees if necessary.
Carlos I don't pay much attention to kid's BS, he's just an idiot troll.

Weird game tonight. Everyone had th Heat dead and buried, too hurt to play and they came up huge.

Celts not so much.

Marcus had a brutal game, (Coach Ime should have benched him)  Al and TL pretty much non-factors, but basically it took an all-time great performance by Butler to win it.

G7 Sunday and I've got no idea what to expect.

You better get religion.

Chamaco may be an IT like you say, but he has some POWERS.

Just hope he does not make any BOLD PREDICTION or show any Celts support before the Sunday game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: josh on May 29, 2022, 11:20:52 PM
Finals poll in the NBA forum.

Celtics held on to win!
Title: Good boy Chamaco
Post by: carlos123 on May 29, 2022, 11:31:09 PM
Chamaco was a very good boy.

He abstained from making BOLD PREDICTIONS or showing any kind of support for the Cs after I PROVED that he had Jinx POWERS.

Bank, I think you should thank him for keeping quiet the last two days.
Title: Re: The Jinx #6
Post by: bankshot1 on May 29, 2022, 11:33:30 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 28, 2022, 01:07:22 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on May 28, 2022, 12:30:04 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 27, 2022, 11:26:57 PM
Quote from: chamAAcocartero8 on May 27, 2022, 06:42:14 PM
Its over

Taking Boston -9 tonight

THE JINX IS REAL

Bank, if I were you I would ask, no, not ask but BEG Chamaco to PLEASE, PLEASE do not bet or root for the Celts ever again, down on my knees if necessary.
Carlos I don't pay much attention to kid's BS, he's just an idiot troll.

Weird game tonight. Everyone had th Heat dead and buried, too hurt to play and they came up huge.

Celts not so much.

Marcus had a brutal game, (Coach Ime should have benched him)  Al and TL pretty much non-factors, but basically it took an all-time great performance by Butler to win it.

G7 Sunday and I've got no idea what to expect.

You better get religion.

Chamaco may be an IT like you say, but he has some POWERS.

Just hope he does not make any BOLD PREDICTION or show any Celts support before the Sunday game.

I found my faith Brother Carlos. It has waivered from time to time, and have tested my soul, but I stayed the course.

How bout them Celts!

They're fucking road warriors but they should have won tonight by 25 points.
Title: Yes, Bank
Post by: carlos123 on May 29, 2022, 11:37:12 PM
But thank Chamaco for his short lived discretion.

And hope he now roots for the effin dubs.

PS. I voted Cs in 7 just to show you my support. Oh, and also because I dislike the Heat much more intensely than your Cs.
Title: Re: Yes, Bank
Post by: bankshot1 on May 29, 2022, 11:49:57 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 29, 2022, 11:37:12 PM


PS. I voted Cs in 7 just to show you my support. Oh, and also because I dislike the Heat much more intensely than your Cs.

I've posted for the past few years that I really like the way the Heat play, they are tough, disciplined and well-coached by a very good coach in Spo. He has them prepared.

Trouble is fucking Pat Riley is evil incarnate. I fucking hate him, but he's real good at what he does.
Title: Re: Yes, Bank
Post by: carlos123 on May 30, 2022, 12:40:20 AM
Quote from: bankshot1 on May 29, 2022, 11:49:57 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 29, 2022, 11:37:12 PM


PS. I voted Cs in 7 just to show you my support. Oh, and also because I dislike the Heat much more intensely than your Cs.

I've posted for the past few years that I really like the way the Heat play, they are tough, disciplined and well-coached by a very good coach in Spo. He has them prepared.

Trouble is fucking Pat Riley is evil incarnate. I fucking hate him, but he's real good at what he does.

I hate him too, and hate him even more for being so good at what he does.
Title: Pat Riley: GENIUS
Post by: chipstern on May 30, 2022, 01:42:03 PM
Hate?

Evil? 

Bankshot?  You wanna talk hate and evil?  You've got some fucking set of balls, dude. 

RED AUERBACH.  Now THAT's Evil. 

JERRY WEST.  Satan incanrante. 

Fuck y'all.  The Knicks should ONLY have someone as evil as Pat Riley.  Dave Checketts.  Donnie Douche?  Glenn Grunwald.  Phil Jackson?  Dumb as a tree strumps. 

Pat Riley Is A Genius. In the tradition of Red & Jerry.  Franchise Builders.

When Pat was Knicks coach, I used to have dreams about him.  He was always very gracious to me. 

Lottery picks?  We don't need no stinking lottery picks. 

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/AcclaimedPleasingAntelopegroundsquirrel-max-1mb.gif)

Strus, Vincent and Robinson. 

All productive players who fit the culture.  ALL UNDRAFTED FREE AGENTS. 

Adebayo and Herro?  Mid-First Rounders. 

PJ Tucker and Kyle Lowry.

Tenacious veteran competitors.  Winners. 

Riles got Jimmy Butler for spare parts and a later first rounder in a four-team deal that involved the Heat, Philadelphia 76ers, LA Clippers and Portland Trail Blazers.

The Clippers got Moe Harkless and a late first rounder [not sure what that fisrt rounder turned into]. 

The Trailblazers got Hasaan Whiteside. 

The Sixers got Josh Richardson.  Lasted a year.  Then a year in Dallas.  Then Boston and the Spurs this past season.  Pretty good player, but no Jimmy Butler. 

Title: Just Saying...Four Years In Vs Three Years In...
Post by: chipstern on May 30, 2022, 02:47:46 PM
Jimmy Butler, four years in, as a 25 year old

20 ppg
38.7 MinutesPerGame
5.8 rebounds
3.3 assists
.462 FG%
.378% From THREE
.834% FT [386-463]

RJ Barrett, three years in, as a 21 year old

20 ppg
34.5 MinutesPerGame
5.8 Rebounds
3.0 assists
.408 FG%
.342% From THREE
.714% FT [290-406]

RJ has a long way to go in terms of efficiency and consistency. 

But he will be 22 this month.  And he is on a steady performance ascent. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 30, 2022, 03:31:19 PM
11 and the Dallas pick for any pick high enough up to get us Keegan Murray.

He is the guy you put between Toppin and Barrett. I am sold on his game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on May 30, 2022, 05:03:47 PM
Chip

Red wasn't evil, but just smarter than most everyone else, and he often reminded them of that blowing his victory smoke rings.

But feel free to hate him.

But if you thought about it he with his 60s teams basically created the model for success and the artistic beauty of the NBA.

Stifling defense, transition fast-break basketball, make the next pass and put pressure on your opponent to screw up.

Offense from defense played with pace.

And Riles is/was good but I sports hate for the roles he played with the Lakers, Knicks and Heat.

Title: Re: Just Saying...Four Years In Vs Three Years In...
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 30, 2022, 06:08:02 PM
Quote from: chipstern on May 30, 2022, 02:47:46 PM
Jimmy Butler, four years in, as a 25 year old

20 ppg
38.7 MinutesPerGame
5.8 rebounds
3.3 assists
.462 FG%
.378% From THREE
.834% FT [386-463]

RJ Barrett, three years in, as a 21 year old

20 ppg
34.5 MinutesPerGame
5.8 Rebounds
3.0 assists
.408 FG%
.342% From THREE
.714% FT [290-406]

RJ has a long way to go in terms of efficiency and consistency. 

But he will be 22 this month.  And he is on a steady performance ascent.

As someone wise said recently - not efficient enough for a guy that will take so many shots.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 30, 2022, 06:09:39 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on May 30, 2022, 03:31:19 PM
11 and the Dallas pick for any pick high enough up to get us Keegan Murray.

He is the guy you put between Toppin and Barrett. I am sold on his game.

Welcome aboard
Title: Re: Pat Riley: GENIUS
Post by: carlos123 on May 30, 2022, 06:40:56 PM
Quote from: Chip on May 30, 2022, 01:42:03 PM

When Pat was Knicks coach, I used to have dreams about him.  He was always very gracious to me. 


Gracious in your dreams or gracious in your real life?
Title: Go RANGERS
Post by: chipstern on May 30, 2022, 10:18:41 PM
Damn
Title: Re: Go RANGERS
Post by: chipstern on June 01, 2022, 11:01:19 AM
Quote from: chipstern on May 30, 2022, 10:18:41 PM
Damn

Bank

You have irony poor blood.

I was running with how you and Carlos characterized Pat Riley as EVIL.

Red Auerbach was a genius.

His trade for the rights to Bill Russell being Exhibit A.

Speaking of EVIL, Bill Russell was a Satanic Cohort.  I get a kick out of people talking about how Mister Bill played against an inferior level of competition. 

Uh huh. 

Bob Pettit.  Wilt Chamberlain. Dolph Schayes.  Johnny Kerr.  Nate Thrumond.  Wayne Embry.  Zelmo Beaty.  Willis Reed.  Wes Unseld. 
Title: 6'8" Combo Guard
Post by: chipstern on June 01, 2022, 03:41:53 PM
Dyson Daniels SG
G LEAGUE IGNITE
Title: Re: Go RANGERS
Post by: bankshot1 on June 01, 2022, 07:30:53 PM
Quote from: chipstern on June 01, 2022, 11:01:19 AM
Quote from: chipstern on May 30, 2022, 10:18:41 PM
Damn

Bank

You have irony poor blood.

I was running with how you and Carlos characterized Pat Riley as EVIL.

Red Auerbach was a genius.

His trade for the rights to Bill Russell being Exhibit A.

Speaking of EVIL, Bill Russell was a Satanic Cohort.  I get a kick out of people talking about how Mister Bill played against an inferior level of competition. 

Uh huh. 

Bob Pettit.  Wilt Chamberlain. Dolph Schayes.  Johnny Kerr.  Nate Thrumond.  Wayne Embry.  Zelmo Beaty.  Willis Reed.  Wes Unseld.

No irony chip, Red was my evil genius, Riley was not.

Both were smart and opportunistic and ruthless.

I just didn't like Riley, a little too slick, too Hollywood. But seeing that this is a Knicks forum I'll end my criticism there.

As for Russell (and the players WBW) there is no denying the modern athlete is superior, bigger, faster, stronger, but WBW the actual day to day competition in a small league (8-14 teams) versus the dilution today, (30 teams) and where for example the 60s Celts could play a team up to 15+ times a year that had 2-4 HoFers, was astounding. Bird and Magic had a storied rivalry meeting about 40 times, Russ and Wilt faced each other almost 150 times. Put another way, arguably the NBA's most storied centers and among the greatest all-time players, went head to head for almost 2 full seasons.

That to me is a superior level of competition.

Different strokes...
Title: Rangers!
Post by: chipstern on June 01, 2022, 11:25:41 PM
The Kid Line.

Listening Thibs?
Title: This One Is For Facil
Post by: chipstern on June 02, 2022, 01:50:46 PM
Knicks trade Julius Randle & #11 pick.

To Kings.

For Richaun Holmes & #4 pick.

Contingent on Jaden Ivey being there at #4.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 02, 2022, 04:15:43 PM
Always asking for extra.....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 02, 2022, 04:22:31 PM
Richaun Holmes

Games  45

PER  17.8   (second on team not including 15-game playing Sabonis)

Win shares   3.2  (3rd on team)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 02, 2022, 04:50:35 PM
We got Brunson.

Rick, not Jalen, as assistant coach.
Title: Trader Vic Regrets
Post by: chipstern on June 02, 2022, 05:50:57 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on June 02, 2022, 04:15:43 PM
Always asking for extra.....

No You Smirking Douche Canoe

Making the numbers work

You see, there's this thing called THE SALARY CAP.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/cap/ (https://www.spotrac.com/nba/cap/)

Which means, cough, you can't just spend as much money as you like. 

If we had cap space, we could make a straight offer to Jalen Brunson. Hello. 

It's debateable whether or not the Kings would be interested in Randle's offensive presence or that he constitutes a good match with Sabonis.  Homles is an excellent role player at C-PF.  If Julius stays in NY, he is also going to be a C-PF.  HAS TO.  Cannot sentence Obi Toppin to 15 fucking minutes every other night.  Perhaps the Kings turn their nose up at our offer, and take Jaden themselves.  Or Houston beats them to him at #3.  Stranger things have happenned.  Don't see how they can pass on Banchero. 

The Pistons and Spurs presently have what The NBA Team Salary Cap Tracker refers to as positive cap space. 

No one else does. 

Am I going too fast for you? 

The Knicks and Thunder are on the cusp of cap space, in a domain referred to as projected practical cap space, which denotes cap space with cap holds renounced if team salary was below the cap maximum. Assumes veteran club options declined and non-guaranteed players released.

The Knicks are listed as roughly -4.8 million, and the Thunder at -2.5 million. 

Whatever the fuck that means?  Though it would suggest we can't make any bodacious offers for a UFA like Brunson. 

I do not believe that the Kings could absorb Randle's salary straight up. 

Would the Kings be more inclinced to take Randle and the #11 in exchange for Moe Harkless and the #4?

Naturally.  Would the Knicks.  My counter would be Randle straight up for the #4. 

Not sure Randle has that appeal at this point. 

In any event,

New York Knicks Salaries

Team Payroll:
$120,644,081
2021/22

Team Payroll Rank:
28

Key: Player Option / Team Option / Qualifying Offer / Two-Way Contract

New York Knicks
 
2021/22

PLAYER             2021/22            2022/23            2023/24            2024/25            2025/26
Julius Randle   $19,800,000   $23,760,000   $25,660,800   $27,561,600   $29,462,400
Evan Fournier   $17,142,857   $18,000,000   $18,857,143   $19,000,000   $0
Derrick Rose   $13,445,120   $14,520,730         $15,596,339   $0   $0
Alec Burks           $9,536,000   $10,012,800       $10,489,600   $0   $0
Nerlens Noel   $8,800,000   $9,240,000           $9,680,000   $0   $0
Kemba Walker   $8,729,020   $9,165,471   $0   $0   $0
Taj Gibson           $4,910,000   $5,155,500

Potentially 35,000,000 in cap space opens up in 2023-2024 with team options on Rose, Burks and Noel.

God only knows how we divest ourselves of KEMBA. 

This year, capologist Brock Aller, the Rose-WWW-Perry tryptich and assistant GMs Walt Perrin and Frank Zanin are going to have to be very creative over the next two months.

For starters, do we re-up Mitchell, or get creative with him vis a vis sign and trades.  He is an unrestricted free agent, so he can exert some gonad sweating pressure on the front office. 

Anyway, we don't have BoD to argue the merits of how much you pay a Jalen Brunson.

BoD seemed to think Fred Van Vleet's contract was cool.

He is due to make roughly 21 million and 23 million in 2022-23 and 2023-24.  And while we all thought it was a four year deal for $85 million, HoopsHype indicates that Van Vleet has a PLAYER OPTION for 2023-24. 

Van Vleet and Brunson.  Dynamic smurf guards at 6'1".  Van Vleet turned 28 in Ferbruary.  Brunson turns 26 in August.  Hmmmmmmmm

Now, what if Jalen Brunson and his father made it plain to the Mavericks' Mark Cuban that Jalen wanted to be a Knicks at, oh, say $23 million x 4.  Just by coincidence, Julian Randle would offer Dallas the kind of size and inside presence they need; just by coincidence, Julius is a native of Dallas; and just by coincidence Julius is due $23 million in 2022-23 .

Might Julius for Jalen straight up be on the table?

It might.

Might Cuban try and leverage our #11.  Fuck you Mark.

Might Cuban settle for the return of the 2023 Dallas #1 pick we are currently holding? 

Let me get back to you Mark. 

Personally, I have a hankering for 6'8" combo guard Dyson Daniels at #11.   

Not sure if he is sitting there at #10 that the Wizards pass. 

Anyway, thrills and chills. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 02, 2022, 05:54:04 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 02, 2022, 04:50:35 PM
We got Brunson.

Rick, not Jalen, as assistant coach.

Tells me we got both, though recent dissing of Pop's game by Jalen wasnt very nice.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 02, 2022, 05:55:04 PM
Big Three

Brunson Barrett Randle

Lets go!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 02, 2022, 06:08:11 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 02, 2022, 05:54:04 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 02, 2022, 04:50:35 PM
We got Brunson.

Rick, not Jalen, as assistant coach.

Tells me we got both, though recent dissing of Pop's game by Jalen wasnt very nice.

Gracious, but you are dim. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 02, 2022, 07:57:55 PM
No You Smirking Douche Canoe



Shhhh....

Child..... behave.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 02, 2022, 08:04:55 PM
Knicks cut Taj Gibson

Knicks deal Derrick Rose and picks for AIR

Knicks sign Jalen Brunson
Title: ESPN
Post by: chipstern on June 02, 2022, 09:58:18 PM
What the fuck is ESPN doing with this coffee clatch instead of paying attention to the damn game?
Title: Re: ESPN
Post by: josh on June 02, 2022, 10:08:20 PM
Quote from: chipstern on June 02, 2022, 09:58:18 PM
What the fuck is ESPN doing with this coffee clatch instead of paying attention to the damn game?

Not exciting enough for them, perhaps?

What both sides have been doing beyond the arc is amazing, especially given what they are doing at the free throw line!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 02, 2022, 11:12:15 PM
No Breen

No JVG

COVID
Title: Wow
Post by: chipstern on June 02, 2022, 11:30:30 PM
What just happened?

Damn.

Coach uDoke is one cool customer.
Title: Re: Wow
Post by: josh on June 02, 2022, 11:32:23 PM
Quote from: chipstern on June 02, 2022, 11:30:30 PM
What just happened?

Damn.

Coach uDoke is one cool customer.

Not the result almost anybody was expecting, that's for sure!
Title: Congratulations!
Post by: carlos123 on June 02, 2022, 11:33:41 PM
Hey Bank, congratulations!!!
I think you got it this time.
When, oh when will it be our turn? 10 years?
Title: Re: Congratulations!
Post by: josh on June 02, 2022, 11:34:44 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on June 02, 2022, 11:33:41 PM
Hey Bank, congratulations!!!
I think you

I think he, too.
Title: Re: Congratulations!
Post by: carlos123 on June 02, 2022, 11:37:07 PM
Quote from: josh on June 02, 2022, 11:34:44 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on June 02, 2022, 11:33:41 PM
Hey Bank, congratulations!!!
I think you

I think he, too.

Josh, it has been corrected.
Just got carried away and dropped a little innocent apostrophe in there 🥹
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on June 02, 2022, 11:37:41 PM
WOW just WOW

that was a 4th qtr for the ages

Road Warriors just never quit

love stealing G1


LETS GO CELTS!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: josh on June 02, 2022, 11:38:56 PM
And with very little scoring from Tatum.
Title: Re: Congratulations!
Post by: bankshot1 on June 02, 2022, 11:40:10 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on June 02, 2022, 11:33:41 PM
Hey Bank, congratulations!!!
I think you got it this time.
When, oh when will it be our turn? 10 years?

Carlos

thank you my friend

was that a fucking 4th qtr or what?

what fucking balls that team has.

big fucking green balls
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on June 02, 2022, 11:48:45 PM
Absolutely stunning!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 03, 2022, 12:07:41 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on June 02, 2022, 07:57:55 PM
No You Smirking Douche Canoe



Shhhh....

Child..... behave.

Old prissy smirking douche canoe.
Title: Re: draft
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 03, 2022, 10:02:43 AM
High on my list - at #11

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/malaki-branham/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 03, 2022, 12:47:53 PM
Quote from: josh on June 02, 2022, 11:38:56 PM
And with very little scoring from Tatum.

But 13 assists.  HELLO. 

Not scoring? 

Just the THREAT of Tatum igniting inspires coverage. 

You can still make plays and hunker down on defense. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on June 03, 2022, 02:45:27 PM
Hope you're watching Julius....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 03, 2022, 04:23:53 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on June 03, 2022, 02:45:27 PM
Hope you're watching Julius....

Wonder if Julius is getting homesick for Dallas by now. 

PS: The idea that the hiring of Rick Brunson presages Jalen Brunson's arrival at the Garden, is such a load of poop.  Rick has a long history with Thibs going back to Chicago AND Minnesota.  Knicks fans and media types are very easily roused from their deep sleep by the flimsiest of premises. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 04, 2022, 06:48:59 AM
Wonder if Julius is getting homesick for Dallas by now.


Wants to be a Knick

And if he plays well after we add to this roster folks will still kill him for '21-'22

Sad.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 05, 2022, 10:35:50 AM
Well, its been a nice run for Celtics

Sadly, just 4 games left - and no ring.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on June 06, 2022, 09:22:56 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on June 04, 2022, 06:48:59 AM

And if he plays well after we add to this roster folks will still kill him for '21-'22


As well they should. In '21-'22 he played like ass. Lazy as f'k. Told NYC fans to f'k off. Disgraced Bernard's Uni. A guy who takes every other year off deserves to be killed. What's the problem?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 06, 2022, 10:08:10 AM
what do these Knicks players have in common and who else - if any - belongs on the list post Frazier-Reed?

Willis Reed
Walt Frazier
Patrick Ewing
Carmelo Anthony 
Julius Randle
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 06, 2022, 11:20:59 AM
Jayson Tatum puts up worst Finals plus-minus in 25 years

Discuss.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 06, 2022, 11:24:50 AM
One more wing player for Knicks - who will it be?

Some here seem to be behind Cam Reddish

But how about Utah's Bojan Bogdonavich?

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: josh on June 06, 2022, 12:19:35 PM
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10037781-should-draymond-green-have-drawn-a-2nd-technical-foul-for-jaylen-brown-altercation

It is both nice and horrifying to hear that fans have been right all along - the rules are different for certain players.

In this case, it probably would have changed the game in incalculable ways.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on June 06, 2022, 12:24:03 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on June 06, 2022, 11:20:59 AM
Jayson Tatum puts up worst Finals plus-minus in 25 years

Discuss.

What's to discuss, he and Celts got their butts kicked, lol. Next!


****ooh but yes was that reffing terrible, phantom calls on the Celts, the truly ridiculous DG situation....game 1 was such a refreshing outlier in that regard, Boston gonna have to deal tho'
Title: Discuss
Post by: carlos123 on June 06, 2022, 01:06:33 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on June 06, 2022, 11:20:59 AM
Jayson Tatum puts up worst Finals plus-minus in 25 years

Discuss.

What is it to discuss? We all know Chamaco does not like Jayson.

But when Tatum has a good or a great game (most of the time), Chamaco will tell us that he was the first, the very first, booster of Boston when they traded for Jayson Tatum.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on June 06, 2022, 03:34:07 PM
Quote from: josh on June 06, 2022, 12:19:35 PM
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10037781-should-draymond-green-have-drawn-a-2nd-technical-foul-for-jaylen-brown-altercation

It is both nice and horrifying to hear that fans have been right all along - the rules are different for certain players.

In this case, it probably would have changed the game in incalculable ways.

Much ado about nothing.

For playoffs, let alone championships, let the players play!

I'm pulling for the Celtics in this series, and there's no way I wanted Green tossed out.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on June 06, 2022, 03:51:16 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on June 06, 2022, 09:22:56 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on June 04, 2022, 06:48:59 AM

And if he plays well after we add to this roster folks will still kill him for '21-'22


As well they should. In '21-'22 he played like ass. Lazy as f'k. Told NYC fans to f'k off. Disgraced Bernard's Uni. A guy who takes every other year off deserves to be killed. What's the problem?

You definitely have a point. His game on offense was predictable and slowed things down. On defense, his energy and attention frequently wavered. And toward the end, he sulked on the fucking court!

And yet, and yet, I like Randle. And I thought the problem was how he was used.

That's why, after last year's debacle, I don't grasp how the Knicks could bring both Randle and Thibs back again. Why expect different results? One of these guys should go. Thib's offensive approach seems dated. Musty. Tedious. As I said last year, we had playoff talent.

Maybe there's an alternative. Maybe they'll give an assistant coach given more power/opportunity to run the offense, and push Julius (and the point guard) to a different scheme. Maybe there's someone there unafraid to give honest feedback to Randle.

But if not? A strong next season seems a pipe dream with that coach and that "star."
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 06, 2022, 03:52:25 PM
Before.

Too bad forum does not go back to 2017.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 06, 2022, 06:23:28 PM
Knicks worked out Daniels, Ty Ty and Branham today.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 06, 2022, 06:27:46 PM
If Brentwood Mitch and Jordan hire Atkinson over D'Antoni they are fucking nuts.
Title: We Shall See
Post by: chipstern on June 07, 2022, 12:46:52 PM
Quote from: elephant on June 06, 2022, 03:51:16 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on June 06, 2022, 09:22:56 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on June 04, 2022, 06:48:59 AM

And if he plays well after we add to this roster folks will still kill him for '21-'22


As well they should. In '21-'22 he played like ass. Lazy as f'k. Told NYC fans to f'k off. Disgraced Bernard's Uni. A guy who takes every other year off deserves to be killed. What's the problem?

You definitely have a point. His game on offense was predictable and slowed things down. On defense, his energy and attention frequently wavered. And toward the end, he sulked on the fucking court!

And yet, and yet, I like Randle. And I thought the problem was how he was used.

That's why, after last year's debacle, I don't grasp how the Knicks could bring both Randle and Thibs back again. Why expect different results? One of these guys should go. Thib's offensive approach seems dated. Musty. Tedious. As I said last year, we had playoff talent.

Maybe there's an alternative. Maybe they'll give an assistant coach given more power/opportunity to run the offense, and push Julius (and the point guard) to a different scheme. Maybe there's someone there unafraid to give honest feedback to Randle.

But if not? A strong next season seems a pipe dream with that coach and that "star."

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FUW6ZObXsAEaEkD?format=jpg&name=900x900)

The idea that Thibs is utterly incapable of reading the tea leaves and adjusting remains to be seen. 

And while fate intervened in the form of injuries to force feed IQ, Obi and Jericho into the fray, even before JR got hurt, the offense was flowing through RJ as a facilitator. 

I have my own thoughts, moving forward, including small ball lineups with JR at the 5 and Obi at the 4, but would Thibs go that way, any more than JVG would play Houston or Spree at PG? 

Thibs got to contrast the methodical nature of his first half offense, with the energy and pacing of the post-All Star Break Knicks. 

Within a month, we'll have some clues. 

Proportional to a most significant shoe dropping.

Is Mitchell Robinson in our future? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on June 07, 2022, 01:59:29 PM
Yeah, gonna be interesting. Don't think anybody wants to run it back. But which way are we headed...we'll see.
Title: Whoooopeee
Post by: chipstern on June 07, 2022, 03:51:45 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on June 07, 2022, 01:59:29 PM
Yeah, gonna be interesting. Don't think anybody wants to run it back. But which way are we headed...we'll see.

I have not a clue. 

Given my props.

What I'd like to see?

FULL TRANSIITION TO YUTE.  [Julius will be 28 on November 29].  Some mix of yute and vets, but time to up the energy and pedal back on the Geritol.  Watching the Rangers KID'S LINE in certainly an eye opener, speaking of a nice mix of yute and vets, and empowering YOUTH. 

* Resolve Mitchell Situation

* Find a new knee or a new home for Noel

* Empower Jericho

* Julius and Obi playing together

* Obi getting substantial regular minutes

* Transistion Cam Reddish into reglar rotation sixth man role as SF, SG, PF

* IQ AND R.J. get legit shots at being our lead guard/wing.  Initiating the offense. 

* McBride get a real shot at rotation minutes as well as Grimes. 

* De-Emphasize Or Trade Taj, Derrick, Alec and Evan. 

* Less methodical offense, not always predictably running through Julius,  More motion, with JR in the blocks, drawing coverage and feeding cutters, such as RJ, Cam and Obi, more attacking the glass. 

The draft and free agency is such a crap shoot. 

I like Dyson Daniels.  Afraid he is not going to be there at #11, and phantisies about Ivey are moot.  Not sure TyTy isn't redundant vis a vis IQ

Daniels a close to 6'8" PG/COMBO, defensive wiz.  Offense a work in progress.

The second coming of Elfrid or Ben, or this year's version of Scottie Barnes? 

Utah?

Think it is far more likely that Johnny Bryant goes there than Donovan Mitchell comes here.  Not unlike Rick Brunson in lieu of Jalen Brunson. 

Am sure the [cough] brain trust is working on deals, but no identifiable smoke signals. 
Title: Re: Whoooopeee
Post by: elephant on June 07, 2022, 05:54:58 PM
Quote from: chipstern on June 07, 2022, 03:51:45 PM

* De-Emphasize Or Trade Taj, Derrick, Alec and Evan. 


Wait, what? It's not Burks fault that some idiot kept him at point guard.

And Taj has never been a point of emphasis, but he brings a lot if we can keep him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on June 07, 2022, 05:57:45 PM
Think a good new point guard has a chance to change the offense in the land of the dinosaurs.

Maybe IQ could be it (tho I don't think so), but he's so beholden to Thibs and Julius, that that leash is going to be there.
Title: Re: Whoooopeee
Post by: chipstern on June 07, 2022, 08:04:02 PM
Quote from: elephant on June 07, 2022, 05:54:58 PM
Quote from: chipstern on June 07, 2022, 03:51:45 PM

* De-Emphasize Or Trade Taj, Derrick, Alec and Evan. 


Wait, what? It's not Burks fault that some idiot kept him at point guard.

And Taj has never been a point of emphasis, but he brings a lot if we can keep him.

True dat. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 07, 2022, 08:05:07 PM
Quote from: elephant on June 07, 2022, 05:57:45 PM
Think a good new point guard has a chance to change the offense in the land of the dinosaurs.

Maybe IQ could be it (tho I don't think so), but he's so beholden to Thibs and Julius, that that leash is going to be there.

That's uh....

Beholden? 

Might want to walk that one back a bit. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 07, 2022, 11:51:19 PM
Is Mitchell Robinson in our future?


That's probably up to Mitchell Robinson
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 07, 2022, 11:54:30 PM
* De-Emphasize Or Trade Taj, Derrick, Alec and Evan.


Keeping Burks

Keeping Fournier


Next!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on June 08, 2022, 12:11:53 AM
Quote from: chipstern on June 07, 2022, 08:05:07 PM
Quote from: elephant on June 07, 2022, 05:57:45 PM
Think a good new point guard has a chance to change the offense in the land of the dinosaurs.

Maybe IQ could be it (tho I don't think so), but he's so beholden to Thibs and Julius, that that leash is going to be there.

That's uh....

Beholden? 

Might want to walk that one back a bit.

I think the word works.

I'm only suggesting that a young guard who has come up with the old system, and the same coach, and the same star, and who respectfully defers to his basketball elders, is unlikely to be a transformative force for the team.

Of course, it's probably a fantasy to imagine that any new PG can disrupt and impact the Knicks system.

I mean, immortals like Elfrid Payton come along only so often. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 08, 2022, 09:28:27 AM
Cut Gibson

Deal Rose

Sign Brunson

Brogdon for a year is plan B.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 08, 2022, 11:38:12 AM
And as for the draft, lets not do this Monday morning QB thing - lets all agree - there is plenty of talent out there and we can hope to get lucky - that a team doesnt take our guy ahead of us - or turn down an appealing offer that would allow us to move up.  Basketball gods - smile on the blue and orange this year - and New York - let Leon be Leon.
 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 08, 2022, 12:14:46 PM
Anyone see HUSTLE - Netflix  - produced by LeBron and M Carter?

Not too bad.  Lots of cool cameos.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 08, 2022, 01:41:39 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 08, 2022, 09:28:27 AM
Cut Gibson

Deal Rose

Sign Brunson

Brogdon for a year is plan B.

We do not have the capspace to sign Brunson

I like Brogden but expensive and concerned about his injury history seeing as how he is going on 30.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 08, 2022, 02:28:12 PM
Buyout Kemba and I am happy with our PG talent. Rose, Quick, and Deuce are more than enough.

Draft impact players and see what we can get for Randle. Resign or replace Mitch. Those are the major jobs of the offseason.
Title: Buyout?
Post by: chipstern on June 08, 2022, 03:06:18 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 08, 2022, 02:28:12 PM
Buyout Kemba and I am happy with our PG talent. Rose, Quick, and Deuce are more than enough.

Draft impact players and see what we can get for Randle. Resign or replace Mitch. Those are the major jobs of the offseason.

Think the Knicks are more inclined to trade Kemba.  A second rounder would be sufficient. 

I agree with you on Rose, Quick and Deuce, and Jokubaitis beckons in 2023. 

I suspect we are in the minority, and the Knicks may be looking for a home run.  Alas, the options are very limited.

Again, the idea of Brogdan is interesting and BoD approved. 

But the idea of a three year commitment at $21 million per guaranteed to a 30 year old with injury issues?

His rookie year of 2016-2017 he played 75 games. 

In subsequent years, he played 48, 64, 54,  and 56 games, culminating in a 36 game campaign in 2021-2022. 

Basically was good for 19-4-6 when he played.  Is an excellent FT shooter, and got to the line 4-5 times a game, tops in his career.  But his three point shooting was down to .312%, a new low. 

We may have dodged a bullet in passing on Lonzo Ball, who I thought would've made for a bood presence, having improved every year [last season he drained 3 pointers at a .423%].  But while LB has significantly improved his FT shooting, he doesn't get to the line much, and has also experienced a host of injury issues [since 2017-2018 he has appeared in 52, 47, 63, 55 and 35 games].  And like Brogdan, $19-20-21 guaranteed through 2024-25, the final year a player option. 

Brunson?  Worth 20-25 million per?

Be that as it may, unless Dallas is willing to accept Randle as compensation, I'm not feeling it. 

We may be better off sticking with IQ, Deuce and Rose [who if he shows significant game and fortutude, could be a trade deadline dog yummy for a contending team, let alone a leader for our puppy points and a solid presence 15-20 minutes a night]. 

What PGs are out there?

Kyrie
Wall
Westbrook
Rubio
Schroeder
Jones

https://hoopshype.com/lists/2022-nba-free-agent-rankings-top-point-guards-available-next-offseason/ (https://hoopshype.com/lists/2022-nba-free-agent-rankings-top-point-guards-available-next-offseason/)

Ryan Arcidiacono?  TyTy?  Too much like IQ. 

Again, at the risk of repeating myself, I am lighting a candle for Dotson, who at 6'8" could guard multiple positions, get to the rack, and facilitate, even if his shooting is dicey.  But he may be gone before #11.  Ditto Jeremy Sochan another versatile big wing who can guard multiple positions.  Duke's center Mark Williams is interesting, given his size and rim protecting chops. Particularly if Mitchell is a goner, which is looking to be the case.  Think the Knicks are taking long looks at some shooters with combo guard potential, though with Burks, Fournier, Barrett, Reddish and Grimes, things see a mite croded at the 2 & 3 spot. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 08, 2022, 04:17:31 PM
Exactly so.

Murray, Sochan, Eason, Daniels, are all guys who are going to have serious careers because of their energy and work ethic who will hold their own defensively and bring help who Thibs can easily slot with our existing talent.

Williams and Duren are both quality bigs acceptable as consolation prizes if none of the above available.

Smaller wings like Mathurin and Sharpe are worth a look if they drop.

I am not sure their are takers to give a second rounder for Kemba or Noel. I will be happy to be proven wrong in either case. If serious dreck is coming back, I could see it. Otherwise, no.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 08, 2022, 04:30:04 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 08, 2022, 04:17:31 PM
Exactly so.

Murray, Sochan, Eason, Daniels, are all guys who are going to have serious careers because of their energy and work ethic who will hold their own defensively and bring help who Thibs can easily slot with our existing talent.

Williams and Duren are both quality bigs acceptable as consolation prizes if none of the above available.

Smaller wings like Mathurin and Sharpe are worth a look if they drop.

I am not sure their are takers to give a second rounder for Kemba or Noel. I will be happy to be proven wrong in either case. If serious dreck is coming back, I could see it. Otherwise, no.

Yes

Have been trying to imagine who might be tempted on Kemba.

Slim Pickings.

Charlotte? 

Lakers?

Clippers? 

Even those are a big reach. 

Wondering how the Top 4 plays out.

I have a feeling Ivey might leapfrog. 

Conventional wisdom is to the Kings at #4 or Pistons at #5. 

Someone might move up to grab him. 

Just not us...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 08, 2022, 04:32:57 PM
Well alright - wagers are in

For tonight - Warriors +3.5 is stealing money

For series - decided on Warriors in 5 - 20 buck wager wins me 150.

Already have Warriors at +140 to simply win the series.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 08, 2022, 04:36:19 PM
Quote from: chipstern on June 08, 2022, 01:41:39 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 08, 2022, 09:28:27 AM
Cut Gibson

Deal Rose

Sign Brunson

Brogdon for a year is plan B.



Of course we do.  Minus Derek and Taj
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 08, 2022, 04:37:50 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 08, 2022, 02:28:12 PM
Buyout Kemba and I am happy with our PG talent. Rose, Quick, and Deuce are more than enough.

Draft impact players and see what we can get for Randle. Resign or replace Mitch. Those are the major jobs of the offseason.

Simple deal of Randle and insertion of Toppin isn't happening

Just not good enough
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: josh on June 09, 2022, 01:27:25 AM
Only 2 day turnaround of the Finals.

Who will win Game 4?

Will Steph Curry's leg (ankle?) recover in time?

Will Robert Williams' leg be all right?

Can the Celtics hold home court advantage instead of giving it back?!

Can the Warriors keep their 2022 playoffs streak of winning after every loss going?!

Will Kid predict that GSW is going to win 3 straight games. Again, that is, since he already predicted it starting with Game 3.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 09, 2022, 09:21:00 AM
I never preicted that.

I took the odds.  Same as I did when wagering GS to win series AFTER they lost Game 1.  And same as I did getting 3.5 points last night.

Celts are kicking my baankroll's ass a little, I admit.

 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: josh on June 09, 2022, 09:54:54 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on June 09, 2022, 09:21:00 AM
I never preicted that.


You might want to talk with your PCP or neurologist about your memory, Kid, You posted this after the first game ended:

Quote from: kidcarter8 on June 05, 2022, 10:35:50 AM
Well, its been a nice run for Celtics

Sadly, just 4 games left - and no ring.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: josh on June 09, 2022, 09:57:15 AM
Okay, it was 4 straight, starting with Game 2, but since the Warriors won Game 2, that still is a prediction for three in a row in Games 3-5.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 09, 2022, 02:01:41 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 08, 2022, 04:37:50 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 08, 2022, 02:28:12 PM
Buyout Kemba and I am happy with our PG talent. Rose, Quick, and Deuce are more than enough.

Draft impact players and see what we can get for Randle. Resign or replace Mitch. Those are the major jobs of the offseason.

Simple deal of Randle and insertion of Toppin isn't happening

Just not good enough

If you ever learned to read you would be nothing like yourself and a tiny corner of the world would become a much better place.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 09, 2022, 04:46:48 PM
So we agree then.  If Randle is dealt we had better have someone coming in at his spot.

Edit - OR an elite scorer at the 5 (see AD, Zion)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 09, 2022, 05:22:06 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on June 09, 2022, 04:46:48 PM
So we agree then.  If Randle is dealt we had better have someone coming in at his spot.

Edit - OR an elite scorer at the 5 (see AD, Zion)

Sweet Merciful HayZeus.

We are NOT agreed that someone needs come back at the 4 spot. 

We disagree on Obi's capabilities, though he surely has a way to go, but showed great progress in his end of the season showcase. 

The idea that we are getting AD or [OR] ZION back is an hallucination of the highest magnitude.   

If Julius were to be dealt, the expectation would be one of the more favorable draft lottery picks or Jalen Brunson, both extremely remote possibilities. 

Of course, it was your learned opinion, that hiring Rick Brunson was tantamount to punching Jalen Brunson's ticket to Madison Square Garden. 

In the meantime, we can expect subsequent posts as to the cumulative lack of talent in Obi, IQ and RJ. 

Onwards. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: josh on June 09, 2022, 05:24:41 PM
I love how Kid just ignores when his denials are proven false.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 09, 2022, 05:31:26 PM
We disagree on Obi's capabilities, though he surely has a way to go, but showed great progress in his end of the season showcase.


No, we dont

But we are trying to win a title
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 09, 2022, 08:47:42 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 08, 2022, 04:17:31 PM
Exactly so.

Murray, Sochan, Eason, Daniels, are all guys who are going to have serious careers because of their energy and work ethic who will hold their own defensively and bring help who Thibs can easily slot with our existing talent.

Williams and Duren are both quality bigs acceptable as consolation prizes if none of the above available.

Smaller wings like Mathurin and Sharpe are worth a look if they drop.

I am not sure their are takers to give a second rounder for Kemba or Noel. I will be happy to be proven wrong in either case. If serious dreck is coming back, I could see it. Otherwise, no.

Yep

You got it covered




...or maybe you don't
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: josh on June 09, 2022, 08:50:43 PM
LOL
Title: Sensible Chamaco
Post by: carlos123 on June 09, 2022, 09:45:56 PM
"- BAN THE A R 15!!!  -"
Chamaco Cartero

Hey,  Chamaco, we agree on something!

I am so glad.

Did you see the light, or are you just pretending?
Title: Re: Sensible Chamaco
Post by: josh on June 09, 2022, 10:56:44 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on June 09, 2022, 09:45:56 PM
"- BAN THE A R 15!!!  -"
Chamaco Cartero

Hey,  Chamaco, we agree on something!

I am so glad.

Did you see the light, or are you just pretending?

The latter, of course.
Title: Re: Sensible Chamaco
Post by: carlos123 on June 10, 2022, 12:41:02 AM
Quote from: josh on June 09, 2022, 10:56:44 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on June 09, 2022, 09:45:56 PM
"- BAN THE A R 15!!!  -"
Chamaco Cartero

Hey,  Chamaco, we agree on something!

I am so glad.

Did you see the light, or are you just pretending?

The latter, of course.

I am soooooo disappointed ☹️

Please, Chamaco, say it aint so.
Title: Marc Berman With Another Whopper
Post by: chipstern on June 10, 2022, 02:10:43 PM
Berman has just proclaimed that a return of Carmelo Anthony could be just what the Knicks need. 

Swell. 

More vets for Thibs to defer to, added pine time for Cam Reddish and Obi Toppin. 

GENIUS. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 10, 2022, 04:39:26 PM
Berman could retire or start following basketball somewhat. Until then he will keep writing what he does.

Randle for Bledsoe, trade exception, and number 7.

We would lose Randle add two lotto picks and open real cap space, though not a huge amount.

Gives Dame a serious sidekick if he is staying in Portland. We are not getting more than the pick back because of the behavioral risk demonstrated at the end of last season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 10, 2022, 04:57:50 PM
Are you saying Berman is lying. That Knicks have not had Melo discussions?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 11, 2022, 02:10:26 AM
We did bring Noel back for lots of dough. I cannot rule things out just because they happen to be very bad ideas.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 11, 2022, 12:52:50 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 10, 2022, 04:39:26 PM
Berman could retire or start following basketball somewhat. Until then he will keep writing what he does.

Randle for Bledsoe, trade exception, and number 7.

We would lose Randle add two lotto picks and open real cap space, though not a huge amount.

Gives Dame a serious sidekick if he is staying in Portland. We are not getting more than the pick back because of the behavioral risk demonstrated at the end of last season.

Eric Bledsoe.

Uh huh. 

Is 32 and a raging mediocrity. 

Creates a log jam at PG with someone who don't fucking fit. 

We still haven't come out from under Kemba Walker, still have Derrick Rose, IQ and McBride, and we're going to bring Bledsoe on board?

YesYesYes, I know, it's about cap space and the #7 pick. 

PASS. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 11, 2022, 04:18:49 PM
You are nuts Chip. It is clearly win-win.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 11, 2022, 08:35:24 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 11, 2022, 04:18:49 PM
You are nuts Chip. It is clearly win-win.
.
Thankfully I'm not the only deranged individual in a decision making capacity.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 13, 2022, 12:58:21 PM
Surprised Knicks arent in on this kid



  Notre Dame guard Blake Wesley said he has upcoming workouts scheduled with the Grizzlies, Heat and Bulls. Wesley worked out for the Wizards this morning and said he previously worked out for the Nuggets, Spurs, Cavaliers, Hornets, Bucks and Pistons
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 13, 2022, 04:00:24 PM
JaMychal Green to the Thunder for pick 30. Future seconds and such also changed hands.

OKC definitely had too many picks to make them all for themselves.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 13, 2022, 05:54:49 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 13, 2022, 04:00:24 PM
JaMychal Green to the Thunder for pick 30. Future seconds and such also changed hands.

OKC definitely had too many picks to make them all for themselves.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 13, 2022, 05:56:05 PM
Quote from: chipstern on June 13, 2022, 05:54:49 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 13, 2022, 04:00:24 PM
JaMychal Green to the Thunder for pick 30. Future seconds and such also changed hands.

OKC definitely had too many picks to make them all for themselves.

Interesting trade.

Thunder also get a future #1.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 13, 2022, 10:13:32 PM
https://dailyknicks.com/2022/06/12/3-former-knicks-return-new-york-2022-free-agency/2/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 13, 2022, 11:40:53 PM
Celts just do not have the horses.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 13, 2022, 11:42:46 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 13, 2022, 10:13:32 PM
https://dailyknicks.com/2022/06/12/3-former-knicks-return-new-york-2022-free-agency/2/

Hell no, no, and no.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 14, 2022, 12:05:47 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 13, 2022, 11:42:46 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 13, 2022, 10:13:32 PM
https://dailyknicks.com/2022/06/12/3-former-knicks-return-new-york-2022-free-agency/2/

Hell no, no, and no.

Thanks.

Yup

Nope

🙅‍♀️
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 14, 2022, 07:13:23 AM
Whaddya know - found old forum friend Emac2 in the comments at FanSided
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 14, 2022, 09:55:29 AM
HAWKS PROMOTE LANDRY FIELDS TO GM

Nice.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 14, 2022, 03:46:23 PM
Saw that. Good luck to him.

Liked him as a Knick on team what could have been.
Title: Conjecture V. Masturbation
Post by: chipstern on June 14, 2022, 04:06:54 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 13, 2022, 11:42:46 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 13, 2022, 10:13:32 PM
https://dailyknicks.com/2022/06/12/3-former-knicks-return-new-york-2022-free-agency/2/

Hell no, no, and no.

Thanks.

You are, of course, as a professional GM, aware that this site Kiid referenced does not deal in news, does not even deal in sourced rumors, but is naught but a petri dish of phantasmgorical lunacy and masturbatory self indulgence by dipshits sitting around the camp fire smelling their own farts and proclaiming them French Perfume. 

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/DelayedFlimsyCowbird-max-1mb.gif)

I generally confine my searches to Facil's Trading Post or HOOPSHYPE RUMORS, fevered and unlikely as most might be.   

Today's RUMORS DU JOUR?

* Malcolm Brogdon on Knicks radar, given the unlikelihood of moving up to #4 and getting a shot at Ivey. 

* Myles Turner in play, and Charlotte might be interested

* Atlanta lusting after Rudy Gobert, and "Some Package" which might be including a Chinese Menu of One
   From Column A & One From Column B of Clint Capella, Kevin Huerter, John Collins and the #16 pick

* Hawks allegedly sniffing around the Blazers #7 pick with an eye towards 6'8" combo Dyson Daniels

* Lakers pursuing a #2 pick

https://www.nba.com/news/2022-consensus-mock-draft (https://www.nba.com/news/2022-consensus-mock-draft)

In this MOCK, Dyson Daniels, Jeremy Sochan and Mark Williams are there at #11.

Maybe Williams.  I think Daniels and Sochan are goners. 

Other mocks have Jalen Duren, A.J Griffin, Bennedict Mathurin. 

The KNICKS have really signaled nothing that I can discern.  No smoke signals. 

Everyone is projecting or wishing for a scenario in which they move up in the draft. 

Worth noting that in the past drafts they were just as inclined to trade down. 

What'd they do last year? 

Paid forward their #19 pick to Charlotte for the Hornets' 2022 protected #1, which they ultimately included in the deal which sent Kevin Knox to Atlanta for Cam Reddish, Solomon Hill and a 2025 second rounder [via Brooklyn]. 

They flipped the #21 pick for the Clippers' #25 [and a future second rounder], which they used to select Quentin Grimes. 

The BROCK ALLER cap management projection is that they dealt down with an eye on whatever extra money they would no longer be obligated to pay both a #19 and #21 pick.  Probably saved in the neighborhood of a million, give or take, by selecting Grimes at #25. 

In 2021 they also flipped the #32 pick they received from the Pistons for the #34 and #36 picks, which they used to select Rokas Jokubaitis and Miles McBride. 

And the #58 pick we got from Philly along with a couple of warm bodies we immediately dispatched in the Austin Rivers trade, got us Jericho Sims. 

So....

The Knicks intentions moving forward into the 2022 Trading Season, 2022 Draft, 2022 Free Agency and 2022 Summer League seem inscrutable. 

They seem inclined to give PG/Combo Jokubaitis another season of experience overseas.  Have not signalled any particular commitment to IQ or McBride.  Have not tipped their hand regarding unrestricted free agent Mitchell Robinson, though if they have any leverage, regarding rules concerning who can make him the highest money offer, a sign and trade might be in order.  Not really feeling any urgency on the Knicks part to commit. 

Anyway, TEN DAYS until the 2022 NBA Draft. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 14, 2022, 05:39:24 PM
I am worried that teams ahead of us will go into this draft looking for the next Andrew Wiggins. I want that guy to fall to 11.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 14, 2022, 05:59:08 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 14, 2022, 05:39:24 PM
I am worried that teams ahead of us will go into this draft looking for the next Andrew Wiggins. I want that guy to fall to 11.

All things being equal, who would you like to see fall to us at #11. 

I think the big wings/combo we may like in Daniels and Sochan could be gone. 

I really really like the bigs, Mark Williams and Jalen Duren.  I would be happy going forward with either of them and Sims, given that Robinson may walk, and its a cold day in hell when Nerlens even CAN WALK.  Taj can mentor them for one more season, and Thibs can take his thumb out his ass and give minutes to both Obi and Julius at the 5 Spot. 

A lot of the wings are really intriguing, but we already have Barrett, Reddish and Grimes [and IQ], not to mention the likelihood that Burks will be here for one more season as Thibs' security blanket. TyTy is interesting, but seems a reach at #11, and too much like Quickley.  Still, I think the Knicks are seriously looking at another wing, be it Daniels if he drops [this year's Scotty Barnes] or another of the cats they've been working out. 

Could any of our vets be on the trading block?  Might we actualy be targetting Carmelo as a SF/PF option off the bench? 

ARE THIBS & THE FRONT OFFICE ON THE SAME DAMN PAGE? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 14, 2022, 06:34:38 PM
Daniels Sochan and Eason are the three that cut it. Eason and Sochan are more my focus. Daniels has moved up out of our range.

This may come in handy for future consideration,

http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/info/rookie_scale/2023 (http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/info/rookie_scale/2023)

Randle equals 7th pick salary plus Portland trade exception.

Knowing that Randle and Fournier for Bledsoe, 7, and the exception.

Dame gets a wing and a big.

We could add two of those guys. Say Daniels goes higher

Mitch Jericho
Obi Sochan Taj
Reddish Eason Burks
RJ Grimes
IQ Rose McBride

We still have a ton of money after paying Bledsoe his partial guarantee and working buyouts of Kemba and Noel. We even would have enough dough for an RFA overpay.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 14, 2022, 06:50:44 PM
I just used that link I so helpfully provided.

It would put us somewhere between Indy and Orlando with about 30 mil to play with at the start of free agency.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 15, 2022, 03:23:57 AM
Alternatively, I am all for seeing if Charlotte wants someone badly enough at 11 to give us 13 and 15 for 11, 42, and a future second rounder or two.

Ryan Rollins is the only guy under six foot six besides Ivey I want in this draft. At six six and north, there are a lot of guys in this draft you could put to work right away.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 15, 2022, 08:23:17 AM
KNICKS dont want more picks.  Want the best quality we can get.  Picking at 11 or moving up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 15, 2022, 08:25:42 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 14, 2022, 06:34:38 PM
Daniels Sochan and Eason are the three that cut it. Eason and Sochan are more my focus. Daniels has moved up out of our range.

This may come in handy for future consideration,

http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/info/rookie_scale/2023 (http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/info/rookie_scale/2023)

Randle equals 7th pick salary plus Portland trade exception.

Knowing that Randle and Fournier for Bledsoe, 7, and the exception.

Dame gets a wing and a big.

We could add two of those guys. Say Daniels goes higher

Mitch Jericho
Obi Sochan Taj
Reddish Eason Burks
RJ Grimes
IQ Rose McBride



That team sucks
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on June 15, 2022, 01:30:54 PM
Not sure how many games it would win, but a helluva lot more fun to watch without Julius' sad sorry and lazy ass barking at refs, flipping off fans and refusing to run back on D.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 15, 2022, 04:16:09 PM
I want in the FINAL 8.  In '22-'23   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on June 15, 2022, 04:51:39 PM
Me too.

But that's gonna take a surprise or too.

Facilitatorn, your pragmatic scenarios are ALL so damn dreary and joyless.

What pleasure do you get from thinking like this?

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 15, 2022, 05:05:05 PM
Quote from: elephant on June 15, 2022, 04:51:39 PM
Me too.

But that's gonna take a surprise or too.

Facilitatorn, your pragmatic scenarios are ALL so damn dreary and joyless.

What pleasure do you get from thinking like this?

To dream the impossible dream.

Hey, a beat writer in the POST, fantasized today about the Knicks giving the Kings our #11, a handful of second rounders and [AND] Obi Toppin for the #4 pick.

June 24th cannot come soon enough
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 15, 2022, 05:25:58 PM
Quote from: elephant on June 15, 2022, 04:51:39 PM
Me too.

But that's gonna take a surprise or too.

Facilitatorn, your pragmatic scenarios are ALL so damn dreary and joyless.

What pleasure do you get from thinking like this?

I like physically imposing agile defenders who can make heady plays in tight windows. I like teams that maintain effort and focus and realize they must be built of players who maintain effort and focus.

Everyone gets a year to scrap to earn expanded roles. I envision a team that can get up and down in a hurry and can provide constant pressure, good man coverage, and good help against two all stars at once, or three in a pinch.

I do not see our current top dogs salary wise being the foundation of a competitive team going forward. I do like the young guys we have assembled and I want to add players that can help them run other teams out of the gym.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 15, 2022, 06:04:56 PM
Quote from: chipstern on June 15, 2022, 05:05:05 PM
Quote from: elephant on June 15, 2022, 04:51:39 PM
Me too.

But that's gonna take a surprise or too.

Facilitatorn, your pragmatic scenarios are ALL so damn dreary and joyless.

What pleasure do you get from thinking like this?

To dream the impossible dream.

Hey, a beat writer in the POST, fantasized today about the Knicks giving the Kings our #11, a handful of second rounders and [AND] Obi Toppin for the #4 pick.

June 24th cannot come soon enough

And we re-sign Mitch?  How about that?

Ivey/Rose
Barrett
Fournier
Randle
Robinson

Rose/Ivey
Quickley
Grimes/Burks
Reddish
Sims/Noel

 
Title: This Just In
Post by: chipstern on June 15, 2022, 10:12:25 PM
Rockets trade Christian Wood to the Mavericks for multiple role players with expiring deals in 2023 and the #26 pick. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 16, 2022, 08:28:29 AM
So...is this a 4 player draft?  I never like to separate prospects like this but if there is a huge fall off after Ivey and Kings dont really want Ivey, plus players 5-14 can be lumped together somewhat isn't it quite apparent there is a deal to be made between Sac and NY?  Better move is for Kings to move up of course.  Look at Banchero or the Gonzaga kid.  Interesting week ahead.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 16, 2022, 08:50:12 AM
Would also think there is a deal to be had with Suns for Ayton but we would need to surrender number 11 pick.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 16, 2022, 11:23:12 AM
Brogdon a "negative value contract"

https://hoopshype.com/rumor/1721427/
Title: Scenarios
Post by: chipstern on June 16, 2022, 01:14:17 PM
A younger healthier version of Malcolm Brogdan would surely illuminate our Xmas tree. 

However, in light of Facil and Knicks fans obsession with dumping Evan Fournier's execrable "long term contract" [two more years remaining till fourth year team option, at $18,000,000, $18,857,143, $19,000,000, I find it positively ludicrous that Brogdan is even being seriously discussed. 

I mean, KRIPES NO

At the risk of repeating myself, MB is a talented player, and basically put up very respectable 19-5-6 numbers for the Pacers this past season, shooting .856% from the FT line. 

HowFuckingSOeVER.   His 3 point shooting plummetted to .312% and since being traded to the Pacers over the past three season he has only been on the floor for 54-56-36 games, though COVID factors in, somewhat.   

And seeing as how some of us are so very obsessed with execrable long term contracts, would it be churlish of me to point out that Brogdon will be 30 [THIRTY] this coming December, and is GAURANTEED $22,600,000, $22,500,000, $22,500,000 through the 2024-2025 season. 

PASS

As per Facil's latest super trade, in which we surrender Randle and Fournier plus our #11, for Harrison Barnes and the #4?

Doesn't work.  If Moe Harkless was included, the numbers work.

Barnes is a combo SF/PF who has been listed as a PF these past couple of years.  Just turned 30, and is in the final year of his contract at $18,352,273 while Harkless, a career scrub [an offensive cipher, but a solid defender] just turned 29 and is in the final year of his contract at $4,564,980

Thibs would love them both, as it would give him an excuse to never let Cam Reddish off the bench. 

So...

As for Ayton?  A DEAL TO BE HAD?  I didn't realize Kiid smoked weed.  Always took him to be more a Bud Light/Boone's Farm kind of guy, but clearly he is high as a motherfucker if he thinks that our #11 pick even gets us a sniff of the young center's jock strap.  Giving him the benefit of the doubt, let's presume he did not fully flesh out his dream scenario. 

AGAIN...

I am not opposed to the idea of exploring deals for Julius and Evan, NOT AT ALL, but I was mortally offended by the notion of trading Julius for the #7 pick and Eric Bledsoe, who turns 33 in December, and whose best seasons are well behind him.  WinWin?  Tell me about the rabbits, George. 

Is it remotely possible that Julius, who insists he wants to be a Knick, might enjoy a bounce back year?  Or that Evan, a good character guy, might profit from the experience of 2021-2022? 

Could be, which would only enhance their "trade value." 

AGAIN...

The Knicks' front office has not in any way, shape or form tipped their hand, vis a vis, any possible moves with a week [EIGHT DAYS A WEEK, oooooh ooooh ooooh I love you] to go. 

OBVIOUSLY Jaden Ivey at #4 would be our dream date [presuming he drops to #4]. 

Doable? 

And while the Mitchell Robinson drama has yet to play out, at the very least, HE IS NO LONGER ON A SLOW BOAT TO CHINA, let alone the Dallas Mavericks, having just traded for BoD love child CHRISTIAN WOOD.  Charlotte?  They figure to get a tenable center with their #13 or #15 picks [assuming Duren and Williams are still there].  Mitchell's home town [more or less] of New Orleans?  They have Jonas Valanciunas and Jaxon Hayes. 

DETROIT?  Now that's a thought.  
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 16, 2022, 02:06:34 PM
As for Ayton?  A DEAL TO BE HAD?  I didn t realize Kiid smoked weed.  Always took him to be more a Bud Light Boone s Farm kind of guy, but clearly he is high as a motherfucker if he thinks that our  11 pick even gets us a sniff of the young center s jock strap.  Giving him the benefit of the doubt, let s presume he did not fully flesh out his dream scenario.




shhhhh.....
Title: Re: Scenarios
Post by: facilitatorn on June 16, 2022, 05:45:41 PM
Quote from: chipstern on June 16, 2022, 01:14:17 PM

As per Facil's latest super trade, in which we surrender Randle and Fournier plus our #11, for Harrison Barnes and the #4?

Doesn't work.  If Moe Harkless was included, the numbers work.

Barnes is a combo SF/PF who has been listed as a PF these past couple of years.  Just turned 30, and is in the final year of his contract at $18,352,273 while Harkless, a career scrub [an offensive cipher, but a solid defender] just turned 29 and is in the final year of his contract at $4,564,980

Thibs would love them both, as it would give him an excuse to never let Cam Reddish off the bench. 


That is a dream, but not mine. I do not hate it.

I had Jules and Evan going for Bledsoe, exception, and the seventh pick , then waving goodbye to all but 3.8 million of Bledsoe salary or whatever the exact figure of his guarantee is.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Hamilton Samuels on June 16, 2022, 05:58:25 PM
Nobody cares about the NBA.
Title: Hmmmm
Post by: chipstern on June 16, 2022, 06:09:37 PM
Quote from: Hamilton Samuels on June 16, 2022, 05:58:25 PM
Nobody cares about the NBA.

(https://i.gifer.com/2tdL.gif)

(https://i.gifer.com/Dv87.gif)

(https://i.gifer.com/QUD.gif)

Title: high as a motherfucker
Post by: carlos123 on June 16, 2022, 10:15:58 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on June 16, 2022, 02:06:34 PM
As for Ayton?  A DEAL TO BE HAD?  I didn t realize Kiid smoked weed.  Always took him to be more a Bud Light Boone s Farm kind of guy, but clearly he is high as a motherfucker if he thinks that our  11 pick even gets us a sniff of the young center s jock strap.  Giving him the benefit of the doubt, let s presume he did not fully flesh out his dream scenario.




shhhhh.....

Chip, Chamaco does not get high with weed. He is high allright, but what gets him going is sniffing Trumptins behind.

Afraid Boston is a goner. Sorry about that, Bank.
Title: Re: high as a motherfucker
Post by: bankshot1 on June 17, 2022, 12:39:56 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on June 16, 2022, 10:15:58 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on June 16, 2022, 02:06:34 PM
As for Ayton?  A DEAL TO BE HAD?  I didn t realize Kiid smoked weed.  Always took him to be more a Bud Light Boone s Farm kind of guy, but clearly he is high as a motherfucker if he thinks that our  11 pick even gets us a sniff of the young center s jock strap.  Giving him the benefit of the doubt, let s presume he did not fully flesh out his dream scenario.




shhhhh.....

Afraid Boston is a goner. Sorry about that, Bank.

Sometimes you eat the bear, sometimes the bear eats you.

Congrats to the Warriors and their fans.

Celts had a great year, but played a poor series against the Warriors.

I don't feel like doing a post-mortem tonight, but the offense after game 3 fell apart, I think Tatum and Smart played hurt, and they got nothing (actually less than nothing from the bench.

Its hard to believe that they were up 5 with 3 minutes to play and in a great position to take a 3-1 series lead. But...

They're young and very talented, they'll be back
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 17, 2022, 12:48:11 AM
True dat.

No reason to shake the boat in Boston.

I hope they run it back.

No ring for Kornet though. I would have liked if he got one like Thanasis did.
Title: Nothing To Be Sorry About, Celtics Fans. Much To Be Excited About, Warriors Fans
Post by: chipstern on June 17, 2022, 12:51:31 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on June 17, 2022, 12:39:56 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on June 16, 2022, 10:15:58 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on June 16, 2022, 02:06:34 PM
As for Ayton?  A DEAL TO BE HAD?  I didn t realize Kiid smoked weed.  Always took him to be more a Bud Light Boone s Farm kind of guy, but clearly he is high as a motherfucker if he thinks that our  11 pick even gets us a sniff of the young center s jock strap.  Giving him the benefit of the doubt, let s presume he did not fully flesh out his dream scenario.


shhhhh.....

Afraid Boston is a goner. Sorry about that, Bank.

Sometimes you eat the bear, sometimes the bear eats you.

Congrats to the Warriors and their fans.

Celts had a great year, but played a poor series against the Warriors.

I don't feel like doing a post-mortem tonight, but the offense after game 3 fell apart, I think Tatum and Smart played hurt, and they got nothing (actually less than nothing from the bench.

Its hard to believe that they were up 5 with 3 minutes to play and in a great position to take a 3-1 series lead. But...

They're young and very talented, they'll be back

Hey, they made it to the NBA FINALS, which as they say, ain't exactly chopped liver. 

And beat some damn good teams to get there. Of course they had a little luck.   

Bitch slapped the Head Case Kyrie/Simmons-less Nyets, and went seven with the reigning champs, the Bucks [albeit minus Khris Middleton], and finally, the beast of the East, the Heat [albeit with Kyle Lowry doing his best Spanky from Our Gang/Lil Rascals physical fitness dance]. 

People talking about how poorly Tatum and Brown played. 

Uh huh.  No Sale. 

You want to talk about defense?  Celtics prided themselves on defense. 

Then Jayson and Jaylen ran into Andrew Wiggins and Draymond Green. 

Celtics have a star in the making in Robert Williams, who played most of the playoffs on half a leg. 

Marcus Smart, defensive player of the year.

Al Horford, sweet bird of youth. 

Grant Williams.  Payton Pritchard.  Derek White. 

Not too shabby.   

(https://www.nbcsports.com/sites/rsnunited/files/styles/article_hero_image/public/article/hero/draymond-green-daughter-GettyImages-1236831167.jpg)

But they played a deep Warriors team with a core of quality players who've been there, doine that, led by a certifiable hall of famer in Steph Curry [34], alpha male Draymond Green [32], back in the saddle/on the upswing Klay Thompson [32], and in Andrew Wiggins [27], a player who was nurtured by a mature veteran system, and not being tasked with carrying a team, damn near carried a team. 

Excellent role players and veterans in Looney [26], Porter [29] , Igoudala [38], Payton [29]. 

They drafted and traded well, kept their veteran core together, turned Kevin Durant's inexplicable career hissy fit into sign and trade plunder [D'Angelo Russell], and turned that plunder into Andrew Wiggins and a lottery pick. 

They resisted the urge to cash in their assets on the proverbial SHINY OBJECT, were heady in their pursuit of vet value [such as the oft injured Otto Porter, who at $25 million a year is kind of a drag, but at a roughly $2.4 million veteran deal, a money in the bank sniper for a reclamation-priced roll of the dice]. 

And now, AND NOW, having not pursued the proverbial Carmelo Anthony Shiny Object, and traded away their young assets, have an insane core of gifted, on-the-rise puppies. 

Jordon Poole [23]
James Wiseman [21]
Moses Moody [20]
Jonathan Kuminga [19]

I mean fuck me. 

PS: File This Under Karma/To Be A Knicks Fan Is To Suffer.  Knicks were one lousy draft pick away from Steph Curry.  And our execrable savior Phil Jackson wanted Steve Kerr, but Steve sensed he would be naught but Phil's stunt double in New York, and fired inside of two years, and so, four championships later? 

(https://bckonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/curry-1-750x748.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 17, 2022, 01:46:00 PM
Quote from: Hamilton Samuels on June 16, 2022, 05:58:25 PM
Nobody cares about the NBA.

Games - well...they are done

Draft?  Sure.  Very much.

Be well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 17, 2022, 02:57:04 PM
Mock draft, with a Philly deal I am not sure I like


https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/sixers/2022-nba-mock-draft-sixers-nuggets-trade-shakes-first-round
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 17, 2022, 03:13:59 PM
An now -  a darkhorse pick for the Knicks to go with Santa Clara's WILLIAMS and Ohio State's BRANHAM

https://www.peachtreehoops.com/2022/6/16/23167605/2022-nba-draft-scouting-report-nikola-jovic-offense-defense-stats-analysis-fit-atlanta-hawks
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 17, 2022, 06:54:34 PM
Do not mind trading back for Williams and someone else. Hard pass on Branham. Maybe on his second contract if he develops his game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 18, 2022, 04:24:55 PM
Always a fun week as the rumors roll in on dealing picks and which established NBA guys might be available

Monte Morris is in NY's wheelhouse.
Title: Thanks...But No Thanks
Post by: chipstern on June 18, 2022, 06:46:05 PM
Kenny Atkinson just bailed on the Charlotte Hornets. 

Remaining in Golden State as Steve Kerr's #2, stepping in to the post held by Mike Brown, who is now the head coach of the Kings. 

Pretty odd move.  Leaves Hornets in a lurch, coming back hat in hand to rejected finalists Mike D'Antoni and Terry Stotts. 

As I recall, Atkinson was BoD's first choice over Thibs in our coaching derby.  Did a nice job on the Nyets, who dumped him before he had an opportunity to coach Durant.  ODD. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 18, 2022, 09:25:13 PM
I think D'Antoni will gladly take it.

Shoud be incredible what he can do with LaMelo.

Brentwood Mitch gets lucky.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 18, 2022, 09:26:33 PM
As for Mike Brown and the Kings...

Yawn........
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 18, 2022, 09:41:43 PM
Meanwhile Lakers will start their assistant coach search using "guys that Darvin knows" as guideline

heh

Brad Turner Sources Jordan Ott, an assistant coach with Nets, is a candidate to be an assistant coach for Lakers head coach Darvin Ham. The two have a history together when Ott was a video coordinator with Hawks when Ham was an assistant coach on the staff.  via Twitter BA  Turner
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 18, 2022, 09:52:58 PM
Knicks trying to deal nerlens so they can just pay Mitch whatever (assuming Robinson doesnt want out of NY no matter what).

But get those Knicks-Bulls deals ready in case

Robinson to Chicago in a sign and trade for

????
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 19, 2022, 08:35:38 AM
https://dailyknicks.com/2022/06/18/3-teams-knicks-make-trade-2022-nba-draft/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 19, 2022, 03:18:33 PM
Hoping Davis and Branham go top 10.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 19, 2022, 04:11:32 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 19, 2022, 08:35:38 AM
https://dailyknicks.com/2022/06/18/3-teams-knicks-make-trade-2022-nba-draft/

I kind of like PF-SF Bochan and Duke center Williams.  Think my first choice, Dotson, is long gone at #11. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 19, 2022, 04:42:18 PM
Do you mean Dyson Daniels, the high end perimeter appliance prospect with hitherto unseen fluid dynamic profile?

If you think of the vacuum and fan brand the name is easier to remember.

Likely Sochan gone as well. I cannot see two centers in the top ten, so Williams should be there unless a team likes him better than Duran from Memphis.

I am good with Daniels, Sochan, Eason, and Jalen Williams out of Santa Clara who may wind up as our or someone elses primary ball handler in the half court and long term starting PG.

I also wonder if Keegan Murray slides due to the abundance of shinier objects.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 19, 2022, 05:23:51 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 19, 2022, 04:42:18 PM
Do you mean Dyson Daniels, the high end perimeter appliance prospect with hitherto unseen fluid dynamic profile?

If you think of the vacuum and fan brand the name is easier to remember.

Likely Sochan gone as well. I cannot see two centers in the top ten, so Williams should be there unless a team likes him better than Duran from Memphis.

I am good with Daniels, Sochan, Eason, and Jalen Williams out of Santa Clara who may wind up as our or someone elses primary ball handler in the half court and long term starting PG.

I also wonder if Keegan Murray slides due to the abundance of shinier objects.
 

Thanks

Duran would be worth a long look as well.

I suspect the Knicks are bailing on Mitchell
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 20, 2022, 08:44:19 AM
Mitch bailing on us.

Listen to the uncle, who feels MR has been mistreated

Robinson makes the second, then third rounds of playoffs before NY does.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 20, 2022, 01:31:25 PM
If Mitch goes, I would see if Mo Bamba wants his bag and locker. I might even ask Mo first.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 20, 2022, 02:27:54 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 20, 2022, 01:31:25 PM
If Mitch goes, I would see if Mo Bamba wants his bag and locker. I might even ask Mo first.

I like MO

Not the rim protector Mitch is,  but great size and wingspan, and has elevated his jump shot.
Title: Kyrie?
Post by: chipstern on June 20, 2022, 02:29:08 PM
Dear God...

No
Title: Re: Kyrie?
Post by: carlos123 on June 20, 2022, 07:04:35 PM
Quote from: chipstern on June 20, 2022, 02:29:08 PM
Dear God...

No

Chip, you are alarming me. Is this based on any rumor, comments, facts... or just plain speculation?

I understand very well why the Nyets would love to dump him on some suckers. By why, o why, would the Knicks bite?
Title: Carlos
Post by: chipstern on June 20, 2022, 07:42:34 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on June 20, 2022, 07:04:35 PM
Quote from: chipstern on June 20, 2022, 02:29:08 PM
Dear God...

No

Chip, you are alarming me. Is this based on any rumor, comments, facts... or just plain speculation?

I understand very well why the Nyets would love to dump him on some suckers. By why, o why, would the Knicks bite?

This moving of tectonic plates is based in part on reports that the Nyets and Irving have not come to an understanding about an extension, and that Kyrie has not picked up his option. 

If he opted out, Kyrie would be an unrestricted free agent and the Nyets would be utterly fucked. 

My regard for his level of command knows no bounds, as his game is simply out of Earth Orbit. 

Alas, so is his ego and self regard. 

He bailed on LeBron and a dynasty in Cleveland, much as Durant did with Golden State. 

He wanted to be a Celtic and Ainge gave up a King's Ransom to bring him on board. 

Went to the EC Finals in his first season, losing, ironically, to LeBron's Cavs in 7 games.   

Kyrie left after his second season, having sworn fealty to Boston, bailing on yet another top tier contender. 

And like a fine piece of China, he is subject to breakage. 

In ELEVEN SEASONS, the 30 year old Irving has played: 51, 59, 71, 75, 53, 72, 60, 67, 20, 54 and 29 games respectively. 

Obviously last season's second least career tally of 29 games was a matter of bailing on his team. 

Peter Vescey used to mock Joe Barry Carroll by referring to him as Joe Barely Cares. 

Kyrie?  With apologies an earlier Irving, who set the hearts and minds of New Yorkers ablaze, WASHINGTON IRVING. 

Icahabod Pain & The Heedless Whoresman. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 20, 2022, 09:06:28 PM
Chip, you are alarming me. Is this based on any rumor, comments, facts... or just plain speculation?


Based on Chip being on crack.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 20, 2022, 09:10:04 PM
https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/267439/Kyrie-Irving-Nets-Impasse-In-Contract-Talks-Could-Lead-To-Trade

The Nets and Irving not being locked in on a new deal opens the door for the All Star guard to leave Brooklyn. Teams like the Los Angeles Lakers, Los Angeles Clippers and New York Knicks have all kept tabs on Irving's situation.
Title: Kyrie Diva Irving
Post by: carlos123 on June 20, 2022, 09:38:41 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on June 20, 2022, 09:10:04 PM
https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/267439/Kyrie-Irving-Nets-Impasse-In-Contract-Talks-Could-Lead-To-Trade

The Nets and Irving not being locked in on a new deal opens the door for the All Star guard to leave Brooklyn. Teams like the Los Angeles Lakers, Los Angeles Clippers and New York Knicks have all kept tabs on Irving's situation.



Now I am really ALARMED. As eloquently put by the forum sage:

Quote from: Chip on June 20, 2022, 02:29:08 PM
Dear God...

No
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 21, 2022, 01:34:00 AM
Quote from: chipstern on June 20, 2022, 02:27:54 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 20, 2022, 01:31:25 PM
If Mitch goes, I would see if Mo Bamba wants his bag and locker. I might even ask Mo first.

I like MO

Not the rim protector Mitch is,  but great size and wingspan, and has elevated his jump shot.

Orlando had him out contesting threes, which he excelled at, not just hanging back in drop coverage. He still managed 1.7 blocks to 1.8 for Mitch in the same 25 minutes. Mo got 6 d-boards to 4 for Mitch while Mitch doubled the offensive boards 4 to 2. Mo moves to space to take and make threes which he does respectably now where Mitch was more often around the basket. They are both seasoned. Mitch is tougher. Mo has more game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 21, 2022, 01:38:30 AM
Whenever a player and team are at impasse, the camp of the player uses the NY rumor mill for leverage with a little Knicks smoke. It is as old as the modern NBA and definitely spans the entire Dolan era.

I am not so worried about Kyrie to whom I say a gigantic fuck no.

We have still got to get rid of Kemba for Clydes sake.
Title: Knicks V. Warriors, February 10, 2022
Post by: chipstern on June 21, 2022, 12:34:36 PM
RJ out for the Knicks.

Green for GS

Knicks win 116-114 on the road.

Excellent games from Randle, Fournier, Reddish and Burks.

Go Figure
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 21, 2022, 05:49:18 PM
So lets go with it

Barrett is better trade bait than he is a leading man.

Reddish all day as we add a guard to tandem with IQ.
Title: Give It Up
Post by: chipstern on June 21, 2022, 06:11:24 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 21, 2022, 05:49:18 PM
So lets go with it

Barrett is better trade bait than he is a leading man.

Reddish all day as we add a guard to tandem with IQ.

Your animus for R.J. Barrett is tiresome in the extreme. 

And your "plan" going forward is not rooted in reality. 

Take a look at the two teams in the NBA Finals. 

Just for giggles, make a head count of how many pivotal players on their roster were original Warriors and Celtics draft picks. 

They were patient moving forward. 

Yes, made bold moves, trade and free agent wise, but when they didn't play out, they remained committed to their core players, and their systems. 

R.J. is only 21, wants to be a Knick, has gotten better every year. 

So yes, Kiid says trade him. 

For what exactly...oh, nevermind.  Not even a remote chance Knicks will shop him.  They are looking for players to fit around him. 

Not a leading man?  K. 

But not a core piece moving forward? 

[Cough]

I suspect that minimally, the Knicks would need to dangle this year's #11, the 2023 Dallas pick, our 2024 #1 and a grab bag of #2 picks for the Kings #4 to get a chance at Ivey. 

Would they dangle Randle or Toppin or RJ or IQ or Fournier or Reddish or Grimes?  I doubt Nerlens or Burke gets it done. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 21, 2022, 08:43:53 PM
https://nypost.com/2022/06/20/nba-draft-2022-johnny-davis-would-relish-chance-with-knicks/

Big Ten POY wants NY.  Nice.


Summer league opener 7-8 8 pm vs GSW
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 21, 2022, 09:34:33 PM
Pass on Davis, thanks all the same.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 21, 2022, 09:37:34 PM
Sure.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 21, 2022, 11:02:01 PM
He is not Jimmer bad, but he is not worth a lottery pick this year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 22, 2022, 07:09:30 AM
Trusting Leon.  But Davis likely isn't our choice, you're right.  Though he may be a solid pro.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 22, 2022, 10:44:50 AM
Holy smokes - only the Kings could FUCK up so bad.  Woj reports Sac will in fact deal the number 4 pick if it is Ivey that hasn't gone 1-3 (so if Holmgren Banchero and Jabari are gone)

Had better be a sweet deal.  Hell..just taking next best available after Ivey would work out well for them (as in leave Ivey for 5)

Now if the team dealing up is from 5 or 6 then yes - makes more sense.

I give Knicks about a 15 per cent chance at landing Ivey.  Really prefer Banchero. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 22, 2022, 11:45:31 AM
Beal turns down option

Hmm....

I keep thinking though that we do something smaller.  Maybe Thybulle?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 22, 2022, 12:34:40 PM
If we can get rid of Fournier, sure.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 22, 2022, 01:01:07 PM
Reddish plus the 11 plus what for the number 5?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 22, 2022, 01:28:18 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 22, 2022, 12:34:40 PM
If we can get rid of Fournier, sure.

Two incredibly different players.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 22, 2022, 01:36:07 PM
Knicks dealing to 5 for who?  AJ Griffin maybe?
Title: Cameron Elijah Reddish
Post by: chipstern on June 22, 2022, 02:43:24 PM
Having just watched how well Cam played in our unlikely 116-114 victory over the Warriors on February 10, I would hate to see him go...three point range, great finisher round the basket, excellent FT shooter, good defender and a legit 6'8" with serious wingspan who could give us coverage at SF-SG-PF.  What's not to like?  Hakws initially exchanged Luka for Trae & Cam.  Something to ponder.  Not his fault they had a log jam at SF and SG and PF. 

But I suspect that in any attempt to move up in the draft, he's a goner.

A Trevor Ariza scaled mistake, where the coach [Brown/Thibs] isn't sold on the player, and he goes on to...well...

Oh, NEVERMIND.

To Be A Knicks Fan Is To Suffer
Title: GIMPS ARE US [Trust In Leon...And THIBS?]
Post by: chipstern on June 22, 2022, 05:07:51 PM
File This Under

Par For The Course

TO BE A KNICKS FAN IS TO SUFFER

It only gets WORSE. 

Knicks have supposedly been trying to offload Kemba Walker, Nerlens Noel and Alec Burks in trades.  No word on Derrick Rose. 

Members of this online commnity are quite familiar with Noel's gimpiness, let alone Rose's and Kemba's, which kept these vets sidelined for significant periods of time last season. 

Team Options heading into the summer of 2023.  Walker and Gibson's deals expire after this season. 

For 2022-23.  This is what they are due. 

Rose: $14,520,730

Burks: $10,012,800

Noel: $9,240,000

Walker: $9,165,471

Gibson: $5,155,500

For those of you keeping score at home, that's $25,457,530 due Rose-Burks-Noel in 2022-23, and $14,320,971 due Kemba and Taj.   

A total of $39,778,501 Rose & Perry have committed to our veteran core in 2022-2023. 

If ever there were an argument against going all in for the 2022-23 season, there it is. 

I'm not talking about tanking, for fuck's sake, by committing more fully to our pups. 

We are NOT GETTING Jalen Brunson.  I do not want to committ to Malcolm Brogdon, another gimp in waiting, due $22,600,000, $22,500,000,$22,500,000 for the next three seasons.  The same Malcolm Brogdan who turns 30 this December and who since 2017-2018 has played in...48, 64, 54, 56 and 36 games.  AND WHO IS THE HIGHEST PAID PLAYER ON THE PACERS. 

Fuck Malcolm Brogdon

For those of you bemoaning the commitments in 2022-23 to Julius and Evan of $23,760,000, and $18,000,000, I mean, GET A GRIP. 

If I Were King, I would get Rokas Jokubaitis on the next plane to NY and let him compete with IQ and Deuce for minutes at the point, treating Rose like a piece of fine china. 

I would NOT SQUANDER ASSETS [particularly Reddish] in a vain attempt to move up in the draft. 

I would reup Mitchell and draft the best talent at #11, irrespective of need. 

I would not redo the mistakes of the summer of 2021 by going all in on more veteran win now fixes. 

I would have Julius and Obi practicing all summer as our twin towers, to get more offense and pacing on the floor. 

I would PRAY that Thibs doesn't give in yet again to his vets obsession.  We have a legit pool of talent that needs to be allowed to play through their mistakes, without looking over their shoulder for the HOOK. 

But then, I'm NOT THE KING. 

(https://media2.giphy.com/media/KHEmiWsooSkWA8owc9/giphy.gif)

Oh, by the way...

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/HighShowyGrebe-size_restricted.gif)

Did you hear that Alec Burks had foot surgery today and will not be ready by opening day of training camp?

(https://c.tenor.com/aBMRvSQV4w0AAAAC/wicked-witch.gif)

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 22, 2022, 05:14:02 PM
I hope that kills the trade market for him and that he has a speedy and full recovery. I am glad he is a Knick.
Title: You're Being Unduly Negative About Malcolm Brogdon, Chip
Post by: chipstern on June 22, 2022, 05:18:16 PM
Fair enough. 

(https://i.makeagif.com/media/11-04-2015/q_RqHK.gif)

Here's my final offer...

Noel & Burks & Kemba for Brogdon, straight up.

Pacers save $45,000,000 dollars in cap space over the 2023-2024 & 2024-2025 seasons. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 22, 2022, 05:28:47 PM
Nerlens is on the block because we may draft the Duke kid as BPA.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 22, 2022, 05:35:50 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on June 22, 2022, 05:28:47 PM
Nerlens is on the block because we may draft the Duke kid as BPA.

I would be fine with drafting the Duke kid, but I would be shocked if the Knicks did something that sensible. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 22, 2022, 05:38:20 PM
Jules, pick 42, Kemba, Noel, and Fournier for Wall, Gordon 17, and 26.

Acquiring Randle, the Rockets can then take Ivey to pair with Green and potentially Evan to spread the floor. Then all they would need is a defensive center who can set picks.

We would keep our young core and have 11, 17, and 26, and a look at Wall and Gordon.


Mitch Jericho
Obi Taj
RJ Reddish Burks
Grimes Gordon
IQ McBride Rose Wall

Add three picks and stir. If it does not look to be working out, next season use considerable open money to overpay known commodities or take a different track. For now let us see if we have actually put together a good young core.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 23, 2022, 07:16:05 AM
Ayton to Knicks for package to include Robinson?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 23, 2022, 09:48:11 AM
As rumored Jerami Grant lands with Blazers.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 23, 2022, 09:51:46 AM
MALAKI BRANHAM is the choice for Knicks in NBA Network's Mock draft (choice made by Andy Katz)

Ahead of Griffin, Sochan, M Williams
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 23, 2022, 12:11:59 PM
And lets go Pippen Jr round 2 especially if we have clered out a small guy or 2
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 23, 2022, 12:42:13 PM
Feeling now is that Johnny Davis of Wisconsin, Big Ten player of the year, will not be avilable at 11.

Too bad.  High character guy who plays both ends.

But if you are so stuck on guys that are drafted late 1, early 2 (IQ, Grimes) that you dont want any competition from a guy who is top 9-13, I caant help you anyway.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 23, 2022, 01:55:03 PM
Latest on Knicks and Ivey

NY may very well be "willing to pay the price", believed to be 3-4 first rounders and maybe a player.

So Ivey runs with last year"s starters.  Sac gets the 11 which should be a very useful guy.  Maybe an additional player for their rotation.  And 2 future firsts.
Title: Ommmmmmmmmmmmm
Post by: chipstern on June 23, 2022, 02:06:47 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 23, 2022, 01:55:03 PM
Latest on Knicks and Ivey

NY may very well be "willing to pay the price", believed to be 3-4 first rounders and maybe a player.

So Ivey runs with last year"s starters.  Sac gets the 11 which should be a very useful guy.  Maybe an additional player for their rotation.  And 2 future firsts.

(https://78.media.tumblr.com/e8104a888a605eb5fc6ef1e692379f6a/tumblr_p5hvqiCYAT1x46d0jo1_400.gif)

Dream On

(https://media4.giphy.com/media/H7kfFDvD9HSYGRbvid/giphy.gif)

Keep chanting, Knicks Fans

Title: Lakers
Post by: chipstern on June 23, 2022, 02:18:25 PM
Just copped the Magic's #35 pick for a future second rounder and cash. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 23, 2022, 05:22:54 PM
Wont be kept.

Gathering assets for the BIG DEAL
Title: There You Go Again
Post by: chipstern on June 23, 2022, 06:12:10 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 23, 2022, 05:22:54 PM
Wont be kept.

Gathering assets for the BIG DEAL

(https://i.imgflip.com/1zd9h5.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 23, 2022, 06:24:43 PM
https://heavy.com/sports/new-york-knicks/dejounte-murray-twitter-trade-rumors-offseason/
Title: I Wonder....[A Dog Yummy For FACIL
Post by: chipstern on June 23, 2022, 06:27:53 PM
The numbers work. 

Evan Fournier & Nerlens Noel

Straight Up

For

D'Angelo Russell

Maybe toss in some second rounders or the Dallas #1 and sub out Kemba instead of Nerlens. 

Final Year Of Expiring Contract in the summer of 2023.  Wolves WANT TO Move Him.  So maybe draft capital not required [Cough]. 

$31,377,750

6'4"

26 years old

2021-2022 Stats

18.1 ppg

3.3 rebounds

7.1 assists

198-240 FTs, .825%

176-518 from trey, .340%

He too has been subject to injuries, so a roll of the dice there. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 23, 2022, 06:29:12 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on June 23, 2022, 06:24:43 PM
https://heavy.com/sports/new-york-knicks/dejounte-murray-twitter-trade-rumors-offseason/

I love Murray, but seriously?

Knicks receive: Dejounte Murray

Spurs receive: Obi Toppin, Immanuel Quickley, Cam Reddish, Pick #11

FUCK NO
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 23, 2022, 07:51:45 PM
Dont mind that Russell deal though I like Fournier moving forward.  Draft Branham?  I am in.
Title: Mystery As Per Usual
Post by: chipstern on June 23, 2022, 09:23:11 PM
Multiple first round picks?

Nothing ever normal with our Knicks.

Stephen A. losing his mind.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 23, 2022, 09:55:17 PM
Waiting for a full autopsy with published details, but I cannot see how any of this works out better than just taking one of the guys available at 11.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on June 23, 2022, 10:16:12 PM
Thibs laid down the law: no point in picking em cause Im not gonna play em.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 23, 2022, 10:29:35 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on June 23, 2022, 10:16:12 PM
Thibs laid down the law: no point in picking em cause Im not gonna play em.

Yup

Paying it forward.

Sorta.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 23, 2022, 10:39:20 PM
It looks like we may potentially have Detroit, Dallas, Washington, and our own in the first round next year.
Title: Detroit
Post by: chipstern on June 23, 2022, 11:09:17 PM
Can't believe we had Duren and composted him just to dump Kemba. 

Detroit in turn gets to start an Ivey- Cunningham back court, and to shift Isiah Stewart to PF with Duren at center.   

We had Duren.  My God.

You still trust Leon, Kiid?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 23, 2022, 11:22:00 PM
We are currently holding

Taj Noel
Randle Obi
RJ Reddish Burks
Fournier Grimes
Rose IQ McBride

We have plenty of future baubles to attach to Noel to get some other team to use a trade exception to put his buyout, like Kemba, on their books and not ours.

Waiting to see what we do at 42.
Title: And At #42
Post by: chipstern on June 23, 2022, 11:46:19 PM
Trevor Keels, guard from Duke. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 24, 2022, 12:07:38 AM
I think Keels will fit right in. Good Kemba replacement.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 24, 2022, 10:06:50 AM
Keep an eye on the Knicks potentially waiving Taj Gibson to create more cap space for a run at Brunson, league sources told HoopsHype. Gibson, a beloved player for Knicks head coach Tom Thibodeau, has a $5.2 million non-guaranteed salary for next season.


- as I had said earlier
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 24, 2022, 10:08:51 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 23, 2022, 09:55:17 PM
Waiting for a full autopsy with published details, but I cannot see how any of this works out better than just taking one of the guys available at 11.

You didnt want Brunson?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 24, 2022, 10:19:32 AM
Brunson
Barrett
Fournier
Randle
Robinson

Quickley
Rose 
Reddish/(Burks)
Toppin
Noel

McBride
Grimes
Keels
(Gibson)
Sims

Arcidionico
Hunt


Let's go.
 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 24, 2022, 10:33:22 AM
KEELS

https://www.nba.com/draft/2022/prospects/trevor-keels

Allows us to use another guard from our roster in a deal if need be

Entering Duke it was KEELS believed to be the 1A to Banchero's 1 as freshmen - before his inconsistent stroke saw Griffin pass him by.

Solid pick.  I liked Rollins as well. Of course now he apprentices under Steph 

Also sick to see the Euro Jovic end up with Heat - and of course Spurs (who had a great draft) saw the strength of my guy Branham - and leapt.

 
Title: Jalen Brunson [Cruising For A Bruising]
Post by: chipstern on June 24, 2022, 12:25:51 PM
Facil...There is a certain [cough] LOGIC, such as it  is. 

Future conditional first rounders? 

We presently have a lot of young [Randle, Robinson] and very young [Barrett, Reddish, Toppin, Quickley, Grimes, Sims, McBride, Hunt].  I count TEN [10].  Trevor Keels, makes ELEVEN [11].  Rokas Jokubaitis could make TWELVE [12]. Perhaps factor in our 10-day contracts, though that is likely G League, for Jean Montero and Garrison Brooks. 

Elminating our 2022 first rounder relieves us of the obligation to PAY HIM a 2022-2023 rookie scale salary. 

James Bouknight of the Hornets was the #11 pick in 2021.  His rookie salary was $4,154,00

Kemba Walker's 2022-23 salary is $9,165,471

Okay, so that's $13,319,471 and counting. 

As per The Prophet Kiid, the going rumor is that the Knicks could waive Taj Gibson [not sure if that means he could be unwaved if he clears, sort of like we did with Elfrid Payton, although that was not a waive, but not picking up his option, although Taj's salary for this coming season is not guaranteed, so...], although you've got to believe that would sting Thibs. 

Let's for a moment grant that the Knicks waive Taj and his $5,155,500 

We're up to $14,320,971 and counting.

There is talk [talk], that Cam Reddish's $5,954,454 could be in play, but even for some with as non puckering a bung hole as Thibs, that would seem profligate.  You want to talk about a player who could benefit and thrive from a legit NBA point guard? 

LET US HOPE THE KNICKS DO NOT COMPOST SUCH A YOUNG TALENTED PLAYER. 

Perhaps the Knicks could attach one of those dangling #1 picks as an incentive for someone to take on Nerlens Noel and his $9,240,000 contract? 

Now we are up to $23,560, 971

Which presumably would add up to a four year guaranteed deal in the neighborhood of $100,000,000 to offer Jalen Brunson. 

PLEASE NOTE: Kemba, Taj, Nerlens, Derrick, Alec were all part of our genius front office's spending spree in the summer of 2021, which depleted all of our cap space.  And now, our geniuses are plotting to UNDO THE PROFLIGACY OF LAST SUMMER.

There is, however, only one fly in the ointment, and that is the fact that while Jalen IS an unrestricted free agent, Dallas CAN pay him more than anyone, and the connections to Leon Rose, Leon's Son, Jalen's Father, the ALLURE of New York City and the starting PG slot at MSG...

MAY NOT Count For SQUAT. 

Compared to the allure of being a significant rotation player on a Dallas team with a returning Timmy Hardaway, a resurgent Spencer Dimwiddie, a signifcant upgrade at the center spot in Christian Wood, and Luka, competing for the Western Conference Title.   

Stay tuned. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on June 24, 2022, 12:54:25 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on June 23, 2022, 10:16:12 PM
Thibs laid down the law: no point in picking em cause Im not gonna play em.

Verily, the words of the prophet are not always sweet to hear.

Even if it's not just a Thibs thing, who was there at 11 that would make any difference? We already got young talent. Are they being used properly is the only question.

Brunson is not a difference maker in a title hunt. But he gets us closer. So yeah, seems worth the attempt to me.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 24, 2022, 01:08:29 PM
I am still hoping Brunson stays in Dallas.

I am happy to go forward with IQ, Rose, and McBride. Adding one of the three Williams or Eason or Duran would have been a better result than the trade.

The Pels and Rockets will be fun teams this season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 24, 2022, 01:40:43 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 24, 2022, 01:08:29 PM
I am still hoping Brunson stays in Dallas.

I am happy to go forward with IQ, Rose, and McBride. Adding one of the three Williams or Eason or Duran would have been a better result than the trade.

The Pels and Rockets will be fun teams this season.

PISTONS
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on June 24, 2022, 01:42:31 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 24, 2022, 01:08:29 PM
I am still hoping Brunson stays in Dallas.

I am happy to go forward with IQ, Rose, and McBride. Adding one of the three Williams or Eason or Duran would have been a better result than the trade.

The Pels and Rockets will be fun teams this season.

Look.

If you're staying with Randle.

And you're staying with Thibs.

It's CRAZY to imagine that something much better than last year will emerge unless there's a core improvement at some pivotal position.

Randle isn't going to magically play differently....unless he's led to.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 24, 2022, 01:50:55 PM
Brunson is not a player who can elevate Randle any more than our current crew can.

We need wing defenders and maybe a big who can shoot if we want to be more successful.

And we should be looking to move Randle, perhaps using some of those protected future picks as sweeteners.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 24, 2022, 02:57:51 PM
At least Keels has his intro music already

http://youtu.be/au3-hk-pXsM (http://youtu.be/au3-hk-pXsM)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on June 24, 2022, 03:13:46 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 24, 2022, 01:50:55 PM
Brunson is not a player who can elevate Randle any more than our current crew can.

We need wing defenders and maybe a big who can shoot if we want to be more successful.

And we should be looking to move Randle, perhaps using some of those protected future picks as sweeteners.

Have you found the key to immortality?

Because sometimes it's hard to fathom your patience.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 24, 2022, 04:10:29 PM
And we should be looking to move Randle, perhaps using some of those protected future picks as sweeteners.



- next summer
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 24, 2022, 04:13:27 PM
 Perhaps the Knicks could attach one of those dangling #1 picks as an incentive for someone to take on Nerlens Noel and his $9,240,000 contract?



Makes us weaker

Has to be combined with some plan to add another big.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 24, 2022, 04:16:12 PM
I am still hoping Brunson stays in Dallas.



You're a phool.


Title: Re: Mystery As Per Usual
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 24, 2022, 04:20:03 PM
Quote from: chipstern on June 23, 2022, 09:23:11 PM
Multiple first round picks?

Nothing ever normal with our Knicks.

Stephen A. losing his mind.


Didnt see it, thankfully (M Taylor just a major turnoff, but sorry I  missed Jalen Rose)

Malika Andrews (no Africa dress necessary) with Kendrick Perkins and Jay Bilas was EXCELLENT.  Rising star.
Title: This Just In
Post by: chipstern on June 24, 2022, 05:43:53 PM
Kevin Durant bailed on Steph Curry for Kyrie Irving.

Cue the laugh track.

FUCK KYRIE IRVING.

Bring on Brunson.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 24, 2022, 08:28:05 PM
Havent you heard?

We are prioritizing development.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 25, 2022, 04:05:38 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 24, 2022, 08:28:05 PM
Havent you heard?

We are prioritizing development.

We shall see.

No more shiny objects

Let's see if they can pull off  Brunson for starters
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 25, 2022, 09:47:13 AM
Is Griffin supplanting Grimes in our rotation something we should not have taken a pass on?

Bears watching.  As does decision to keep RJ off the trade block.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on June 25, 2022, 10:59:33 AM
I thought Grimes did an incredible job under the circumstances.

(the circumstances being Thibs).

What's not to like with the dude? Why would anyone think of replacing him at this point?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 25, 2022, 12:54:24 PM
Quote from: elephant on June 25, 2022, 10:59:33 AM
I thought Grimes did an incredible job under the circumstances.

(the circumstances being Thibs).

What's not to like with the dude? Why would anyone think of replacing him at this point?

The CIRCUMSTANCES last season, above and beyond Thibs's obdurate nature, also included a healthy dose of COVID interruptions and injuries. 

I remember McBride had a breakthrough game on both ends of the floor, got COVID, and when he returned, came down to Earth, and Thibs buried him from that point on. 

Grimes, likewise, with that kneecap separation.  He was really evolving his game from merely being a sniper, to being more aggressive getting to the rack. 

And of course, Reddish, who was really starting to percolate when he hurt his shoulder. 

Of course, we all remember how IQ and Obi blossomed when they got real minutes and trust, knowing that mistakes would not lead to the hook and burial on the bench. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 25, 2022, 01:29:54 PM
Griffin or Williams would have replaced Fournier who does not have the all around game for a major role on a decent team, much less on a good one.
Title: Yada Yada Yada
Post by: chipstern on June 25, 2022, 03:23:36 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 25, 2022, 01:29:54 PM
Griffin or Williams would have replaced Fournier who does not have the all around game for a major role on a decent team, much less on a good one.

Your hard on for Fournier is well documented. 

And some of us are growing weary of it and your endless TRADER VIC scenarios where Fournier And/Or Julius  are offloaded for a bag of candy corn scenarios.  Not that we are turning our noses up at cap space.  Still...

As for Griffin and Williams. 

We already have a pretty crowded back court. 

We ALREADY have Barrett, we have Reddish, we have Grimes, a trio of big, talented two way wings, plus Burks AND Fournier if they remain Knicks.  PLUS second rounder Trevor Keels.  Keels' stats don't knock one's socks off, but he is a Dukie with a mature NBA body [6'4" 221].  That's SIX big wings at SG-SF.

Not to mention Rose, Quickley and McBride. IQ surely demonstrated some combo guard game of a piece with his Kentucky homie Maxey after the All-Star Break [oh, and we didn't pass on Maxey...he was gone at #21, and we got IQ at #25, followed thereafter by Bones Hyland]. 

I am quite sure the Knicks are shopping Fournier AND Burks AND Reddish.   And much as I like Reddish, if he somehow could have gotten us a shot at Ivey, as utterly hopeless as that pursuit surely was, well...

I am not opposed to shopping Fournier, not in the least, though I find your scenarios, with all due respect...is nonsensical too strong?  YES, offloading Fournier in the interests of opening up cap space and playing time for our puppies?  Count me in.  Dumping Randle for NOTHING?  Not a strategy going forward, particulary for a player whose shitty season was still 20-10-5, and who would benefit immeasurably from nor being tasked as a point forward, or an ISO-Bot in Thibs' unimaginative sets.  ERGO, bring on a point guard, as opposed to just dumping JR, no? 

In any event, it's a free country, and surely any number of bodies are on the chopping block, in the pursuit of cap space for Brunson. 

(https://nba.nbcsports.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2022/02/GettyImages-1238089272-e1643719090512.jpg)

Which brings us to your offhanded dismissal of Brunson, which flies in the face of Jalen's playoff performance and leadership. 

A big who can shoot?  You mean like Julius & Obi?  If, as it presently appears, we are standing pat at Center, and are re-upping Mitchell and going forward with Jericho, then the likelihood of small ball with Julius and Obi logging minutes at the 5 increase, even given Thibs' aversion...he weakened and deployed it from time to time in the second half.   

Detroit and Dallas were significant landing spots for Mitchell, but with Jalen Duren and Christian Wood now on board, and Ayton in play, our puppy has less options, seemingly. 

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FURczihUAAAbA18.jpg)

Brunson, if that manifests in New York, would represent a significant uptick, your dismissal notwithstanding. 

Again, DOESN'T make his team mates better?  And that conclusion is based on what?  Carrying the team with Luka nursing injuries, helping the Mavericks make it to the Western Fucking Conference FINALS? 

Not going to make Julius better?  BASED ON WHAT? 

Brunson, a Villinova guy, a winning program, and, one hastens to add, who has gotten better every single season. 

He is a worker bee, who plays D, and can hit the three, pull up in the near field off the bounce, or hit from midrange.  HE PLAYS WITH PACE & CAN GET TO THE RACK AND FINISH. And those last few games with Obi and IQ we got a chance to see how much better the Knicks looked playing with some pace, motion and movement.

In 32 minutes a game during the regular season, he was good for 16-4-5, got to the free throw line 213 times, and drained 179, for an .840%.  He is an efficient all around scorer, who connected on 412-756 of his  two pointers, which is a .545%, and 94 of 252 from three, a .373% clip, which is a very respectable. 

Was some of that part and parcel of the attention Luka attracted.  OF COURSE.  But that question was asked AND answered in the playoffs and the Mavs run to the Western Finals. 

You like Alex Burks [so do I], but Jalen leaves you yawning? 

Now, is Brunson a top tier, POINT GUARD OF OUR DREAMS?  No, he is not. 

Chris Paul, Steph Curry or Damian Lillard?  NO.  Trae Young, LaMelo Ball or Ja Morant?  NO.  Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, Dejounte Murray or Kyrie Irving?  NO.

The GHOSTS OF POINT GUARDS PAST, like Wall or Westbrook?  NO.

And SO FUCKING WHAT if he ain't.   

In the company of Saint LUKA he demonstrated he could be effective playing on and off the ball.  He could be the lead guard or a second-third option.  He contributed to a Jason Kidd-like pace. 

And?  WHEN IT COUNTED, Jalen displayed leadership. 

Is he worth $25,000,000 a year?

Who gives a fuck. 

The kid is a competitor.  Brunson is A WINNER. 

As desperate as the Knicks are, Jaden Ivey ain't coming through that door.  Exhale. 

Would your turn your nose up at such dynamic smurfs as Fred Van Vleet, Kyle Lowry, Terry Rozier?  SERIOUSLY?  All 6'1" or thereabouts, all great competitors who play with pace, can score from deep or going North South.  Their fearless aggression going to the rack inspires their team mates.  And creates opportunites all around. 

(https://c.tenor.com/7Mvx7Pbd6DIAAAAd/jalen-brunson-layup.gif)

You cannot quantify LEADERSHIP, and THAT was the biggest takeaway from Brunson's playoff run.   

On your next outing to the Space Shuttle, take some of this into account 
Title: Postscript
Post by: chipstern on June 25, 2022, 03:58:52 PM
Being a Knicks Lifer, and thus innured to suffering, I would actually be shocked if the Mavericks didn't put up one hell of a fight vis a vis Brunson.

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_sjtTyIA4eMI/R4FqKlvQESI/AAAAAAAAC7w/tq1a4oT7XqQ/s400/trader-vics-logo.gif)

The cornucopia of first and second rounders we have accumulated certainly gives us wheeling/dealing capital.  Considering how many youngunns we currently have, and that alleged player development thingy [Thibs, please pick up the hospitality phone], I see those draft picks less as picking this player or that player, than as teasers with which to entice teams to take on some of our contracts, and to inclide, theoretically, for trades, sign and trades, free agents...

Still, the Brunson scenario does looks promising, as he has history as a tadpole coming of age with both Thibs and Rose through his father's tenure as an assistant coach with TT on the Bulls.  Teaming with Derrick Rose, as MENTOR IN CHIEF, injuries willing, and being thus annointed as the bell cow-floor leader of the Knicks sounds promising, and it is worth remembering that Jalen has played all of four years, but is way more advanced in his evolution that Kyle Lowry was at a similar time in his development. 

Then again, the prospect of playing for Coach Kidd and WITH Donic The Magnificent on what looks like a Western Confererence perennial for the next several seasons....WELL...

But then, a front loaded contrtact at $25 x 4 might give the Mavs pause, what with Dimwiddie on board, Hardaway coming back, and Bullock on board. 

Hey, the Knicks were a lock to re-up Jeremy Lin as a free agent, until that dimwit came back at them with a second contract offer from the Rockets, front loaded for maximum pain, and then was shocked, innocent that he was, that the Knicks' Grunwald felt ass fucked and offended and declined to match. 

So, more than one way to skin a cat. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 25, 2022, 04:40:31 PM
The same offer is about seven figures better if it is picked up in Dallas. NY gets used this way all the time.

ST for Julius at about the same money might be a possibility though.

Gives Luka Randle and Wood in the frontcourt. That is a lot of scoring help in the high-octane western conference. It would dull the sting of losing Brunson.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 25, 2022, 04:47:35 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 25, 2022, 04:40:31 PM
The same offer is about seven figures better if it is picked up in Dallas. NY gets used this way all the time.

ST for Julius at about the same money might be a possibility though.

Gives Luka Randle and Wood in the frontcourt. That is a lot of scoring help in the high-octane western conference. It would dull the sting of losing Brunson.

Now there's a thought. 

I suspect that Thibs and Leon are not looking to trade Julius. 

Would be a big boost for Mavs, that's for sure. 

Save that Luka AIN'T IN THE FRONTCOURT.  He's the POINT GUARD. 

That would be Reggie, Finney-Smith...

Save that Dallas HAS power forwards: Kleiber, Powell, Bertrans. 

BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 25, 2022, 05:46:14 PM
Randle would give Luka, a guard, help he needs from forwards and is not getting much of from Maxi or DB. Powell is more of a C. Woods and Randle would be upgrades over all of them at both spots.

It would dull the pain of losing a big talent like Brunson to free agency and end our need to cater to the moods and pace of Randle.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 25, 2022, 06:29:02 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 25, 2022, 05:46:14 PM
Randle would give Luka, a guard, help he needs from forwards and is not getting much of from Maxi or DB. Powell is more of a C. Woods and Randle would be upgrades over all of them at both spots.

It would dull the pain of losing a big talent like Brunson to free agency and end our need to cater to the moods and pace of Randle.

The point of getting Brunson is to get the best out of Randle and Barrett. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 25, 2022, 08:17:11 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 25, 2022, 01:29:54 PM
Griffin or Williams would have replaced Fournier who does not have the all around game for a major role on a decent team, much less on a good one.

He really does

You just dont know how to watch and evaluate roundball.

Sad you take up so much space here.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on June 25, 2022, 08:38:55 PM
Quote from: chipstern on June 25, 2022, 06:29:02 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 25, 2022, 05:46:14 PM
Randle would give Luka, a guard, help he needs from forwards and is not getting much of from Maxi or DB. Powell is more of a C. Woods and Randle would be upgrades over all of them at both spots.

It would dull the pain of losing a big talent like Brunson to free agency and end our need to cater to the moods and pace of Randle.

The point of getting Brunson is to get the best out of Randle and Barrett.

Yeah, that's how I'm seeing it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 25, 2022, 09:15:57 PM
Brunson also needs to be 3rd high scorer.  I hope I am not seeing minute splits like 22-16-10 between three point guards.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 25, 2022, 09:37:20 PM
This guy fucking knows it all yet wont tell us how in fact we cou :-Xld have landed Ivey.  What deal did we turn down?

https://www.postingandtoasting.com/2022/6/24/23181075/recapping-one-of-the-craziest-nights-in-knicks-draft-history
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 26, 2022, 10:35:51 AM
Quote from: chipstern on June 25, 2022, 12:54:24 PM
Quote from: elephant on June 25, 2022, 10:59:33 AM
I thought Grimes did an incredible job under the circumstances.

(the circumstances being Thibs).

What's not to like with the dude? Why would anyone think of replacing him at this point?

The CIRCUMSTANCES last season, above and beyond Thibs's obdurate nature, also included a healthy dose of COVID interruptions and injuries. 

I remember McBride had a breakthrough game on both ends of the floor, got COVID, and when he returned, came down to Earth, and Thibs buried him from that point on. 

Grimes, likewise, with that kneecap separation.  He was really evolving his game from merely being a sniper, to being more aggressive getting to the rack. 

And of course, Reddish, who was really starting to percolate when he hurt his shoulder. 

Of course, we all remember how IQ and Obi blossomed when they got real minutes and trust, knowing that mistakes would not lead to the hook and burial on the bench.

Rubbish

As shown here, McB got minutes upon return, shot 4-19, 1-11 and that was that.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mcbrimi01/gamelog/2022
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 26, 2022, 10:37:59 AM
The dude sshot 30/25/66 and still got 372 minutes over 40 games.

Doesnt hapen in many places.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 26, 2022, 12:25:38 PM
Quickley played fairly consistent minutes

The chart

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/q/quickim01/gamelog/2022

Had a 622 over 3 games, played just 4 minutes the next game, then was back to his minutes, subsequently going 7 for 34 (EGAD!)

That was 2-14

After that abysmal showing, Quicks played..........

TWENTY SEVEN minutes a night the rest of the way (.446/.393/.852)

So any thought of Thibs not sticking with Emmanuel is....

class???????

....

RUBBISH!!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on June 26, 2022, 02:36:29 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on June 26, 2022, 10:35:51 AM
Quote from: chipstern on June 25, 2022, 12:54:24 PM
Quote from: elephant on June 25, 2022, 10:59:33 AM
I thought Grimes did an incredible job under the circumstances.

(the circumstances being Thibs).

What's not to like with the dude? Why would anyone think of replacing him at this point?

The CIRCUMSTANCES last season, above and beyond Thibs's obdurate nature, also included a healthy dose of COVID interruptions and injuries. 

I remember McBride had a breakthrough game on both ends of the floor, got COVID, and when he returned, came down to Earth, and Thibs buried him from that point on. 


Rubbish

As shown here, McB got minutes upon return, shot 4-19, 1-11 and that was that.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mcbrimi01/gamelog/2022

Isn't that basically what Chip wrote?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on June 26, 2022, 02:45:40 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on June 26, 2022, 10:35:51 AM
Quote from: chipstern on June 25, 2022, 12:54:24 PM
Quote from: elephant on June 25, 2022, 10:59:33 AM
I thought Grimes did an incredible job under the circumstances.

(the circumstances being Thibs).

What's not to like with the dude? Why would anyone think of replacing him at this point?

The CIRCUMSTANCES last season, above and beyond Thibs's obdurate nature, also included a healthy dose of COVID interruptions and injuries. 

I remember McBride had a breakthrough game on both ends of the floor, got COVID, and when he returned, came down to Earth, and Thibs buried him from that point on. 

Grimes, likewise, with that kneecap separation.  He was really evolving his game from merely being a sniper, to being more aggressive getting to the rack. 

And of course, Reddish, who was really starting to percolate when he hurt his shoulder. 

Of course, we all remember how IQ and Obi blossomed when they got real minutes and trust, knowing that mistakes would not lead to the hook and burial on the bench.

Rubbish

As shown here, McB got minutes upon return, shot 4-19, 1-11 and that was that.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mcbrimi01/gamelog/2022

BTW. Now that I'm looking at your link, I think you may be misreading the stats.

You've added FG attempts together with 3-point attempts to get total shots and misses.

But the 3-point attempts are counted as PART of the total FG attempts, no?

If so, McBride's numbers weren't quite as bad as you're making them in those games.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 26, 2022, 02:54:23 PM
Well, if Chip and I were to agree on something that would be way cool.  But i think the tone of his post today was anti-Thbs, unfairly.

Enjoy the rest of your Sunday
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 26, 2022, 04:41:38 PM
We were 25-34, on our way to a 34 win season. Then we benched Walker. Despite losing the first four games without him, we wound up 12-11 the rest of the way, putting us on pace for 43 wins even as we were scrambling lineups and Randle was losing his mind.

We got off on the wrong foot due to what I believe was front office pressure to give the keys to Kemba based on his rep rather than the facts of the player he had become.

Deuce hitting basically none of his shots and even fewer of his threes had a more positive impact on the floor than Kemba did banging in more than 40 percent of his threes while finishing at a non horrific clip at the rim.

Kemba is a great player with a great story and he is done as a regular player at the NBA level. That is why he was available in the first place. I did not mind the signing because I did not believe that Thibs would have to or want to use him.

A steady, year long diet of IQ and Burks would have gotten us into the postseason.

IQ, McBride, and a bit of Rose is better than IQ and Burks. Point guard is not our problem. With Grimes and Barrett neither is shooting guard.

Small forward is really thin with nobody behind Reddish and rumors swirling constantly that everyone wants to see him go for one reason or another.

PF is fine especially if we hang on to Taj.

Neither Randle and Fournier have the work ethic, leadership, or professional pride to be top dogs which is how we are paying and playing them. That puts a cap on the potential of the team.

I do not believe Jalen Brunson can bring out the killer in either of them no matter how much we pay him.

Fournier is a shorter tubbier version of Davis Bertrans.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 26, 2022, 09:07:23 PM
Actually looking forward to seeing Reddish this year, Fac

But your extreme viewpoint of just kicking starters out entirely (example - Fournier) is absurd.

Trusting Leon as we await Brunson addition.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 26, 2022, 10:02:26 PM
Fournier is fine as an eighth or ninth guy on a good team. Will stretch the floor and put up points if you can cover up his D.

With Randle it is a lot more head than game that is the issue.

The funny thing is the two of them have a kind of useful synergy together better for putting up points than for putting together stretches of winning basketball.

I expect we will be stuck with both of them going into the season.
Title: Kiid's Hard On For McBride
Post by: chipstern on June 27, 2022, 06:13:45 PM
Always amusing.

With selectively deployed, cough,
evidence.

Might I nominate his participation in the epic Puppy Punking in the fourth quarter against the Miami Heat.

And for once, no reflexive hook from Thibs. The kids rocking, fearless. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 27, 2022, 06:20:51 PM
http://www.noceilingsnba.com/p/the-shining-trevor-keels (http://www.noceilingsnba.com/p/the-shining-trevor-keels)

I think we are good in the backcourt and hope Brunson picks the big D.

If we are going to get into a bidding war, lets do it over Miles Bridges.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 27, 2022, 11:16:35 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 27, 2022, 06:20:51 PM
http://www.noceilingsnba.com/p/the-shining-trevor-keels (http://www.noceilingsnba.com/p/the-shining-trevor-keels)

I think we are good in the backcourt and hope Brunson picks the big D.

If we are going to get into a bidding war, lets do it over Miles Bridges.

Disagree.
Title: Wall Buyout
Post by: chipstern on June 27, 2022, 11:17:40 PM
Wall signing with the Clippers.
Title: Re: Wall Buyout
Post by: chipstern on June 27, 2022, 11:19:55 PM
Quote from: chipstern on June 27, 2022, 11:17:40 PM
Wall signing with the Clippers.

And guess what?

Kyrie a big bluff.

Picked up his option with the Nyets.
Title: Nyets are f*ed regardless
Post by: carlos123 on June 27, 2022, 11:34:23 PM
Quote from: chipstern on June 27, 2022, 11:19:55 PM
Quote from: chipstern on June 27, 2022, 11:17:40 PM
Wall signing with the Clippers.

And guess what?

Kyrie a big bluff.

Picked up his option with the Nyets.

Screwed without Kyrie, and KD unhappy.

And screwed with Kyrie, off and on when the fancy strikes him one way or another.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 27, 2022, 11:44:16 PM
It is two or three years of what the market would pay him were he now available in only a single season. Of course KI was picking that option up.
Title: Rumor Mill--WHEELING AND DEALING
Post by: chipstern on June 28, 2022, 01:00:12 PM
Don't know if this will console Stephen A. Smith and Spike Lee, but as confounding as Leon Rose's machinations have been, they have been developing WORKING RELATIONSHIPS with several teams over the last several drafts, going back to Scott Perry's Carmelo deal with the Thunder and Sam Presti, a port of call Perry has returned to repeatedly. 

So even if much of our wheeling and dealing has seemed goofy, sometimes seemingly one sided on our partners side, and in many cases, serving to wipe out past mistakes, RELATIONSHIPS ARE IMPORTANT IN THE NBA.  And worth noting to all of you Trader VIcs, that for a trade to work, it has to benefit both teams, in the here and now, and in the fiture.     

The Knicks have returned repeatedly to discussions and deals with the Clippers, Hornets, Pistons and OKC

[And leave us not forget Philly, from whence the #2 which garnered us Jericho Sims in the Austin Rivers mercy trade occured, and Hernan-Gomez going back to the Phool Jagoff Epoch]

* Apparently the Knicks and the Clippers have had exploratory talks about Nerlens Noel

The Clippers seemingly have a trade exception to fit Nerlens in from one of their Serge Ibaka transactions. 

Also, worth noting that the Knicks and Clippers have evolved a working rapprt as trading partners these past couple of seasons. 

There was the Morris trade where we got back what's his name, that All-D/No O wing on an expiring [having an Alzheimer's moment, and too lazy to look his name up...okay, wait...Moe Harkless] and a first rounder which after much swapping, moving up and moving down, was converted into IMMANEUL QUICKLEY. 

And then during last summer's draft, the Knicks traded their #21 pick [guard Keon Johnson, who the Clippers subsenquently traded to the Trailblazers in a big deal that saw the Clips cop Norman Powell and Robert Covington in return for Eric Bledsoe, Justise Winslow, Keon Johnson, and a 2025 second-round draft pick].  The Knicks in return got back the Clips #25 pick, which they used to draft QUENTIN GRIMES, plus, the obligatory second round pick. 

And we already know that the Detroit second rounder we obtained from the Pistons in the Derrick Rose transaction, was forwarded to OKC for the pair of #2 picks which produced ROKAS JOKUBAITIS & MILES MCBRIDE. 

The #19 pick we generously forwarded to Charlotte, that they used to select PF Kai Jones, in return for a heavily protected #1, was forwarded to Atlanta with Kevin Knox for CAM REDDISH, Solomon Hill [and, tah dah, a future #2 pick].   

And on draft night 2022, our OKC, Detroit and Charlotte relationships culminated in converting our #11 pick, Ousmane Dieng, into multiple #1 picks from OKC, and somehow, from there, into a three team trade with Charlotte and the Pistons for the pick which turned into uber teen center Jalen Duren....I can't explain it.  Here is the breakdown.

The Knicks made the first trade of the NBA draft, sending the draft rights to Ousmane Dieng, the No. 11 overall pick, to the Oklahoma City Thunder for three future conditional first-round picks from the Denver Nuggets, Washington Wizards and Pistons.

New York then traded the Nuggets first-rounder they received from Oklahoma City, plus four second-round picks, to the Hornets for the rights to Duren, the Memphis center who was picked No. 13 by Charlotte. New York then traded Duren and Walker to the Pistons for a 2025 conditional Milwaukee Bucks first-round pick.

So we converted our #11 into three future #1 picks and the draft capital to help our buddies in Detroit get the center of their dreams in exchange for them taking Kemba Walker's salary off of our books, slotting it into the trade exception from the Jerami Grant concoction.   

WHEW. 

The Knicks apparently still chanelling their INNER FACIL, only doing the EXACT OPPOSITE over what our Forum Trader Vic would do.  Not trading Randle for a bag of beans.  Not trading Fournier [well, not quite yet anyway] for the ghost of Eric Bledsoe, PURSUING Jalen Brunson with steely intent [sorry Fac, but you are way off on this one], and purportedly having exploratory talks with several teams about Alec Burks, including the Celtics. 

If indeed the Knicks could use their draft capital and carefully cultivated relationships to convert Kemba Walker [done], Nerlens Noel, Alec Burks and perhaps even Fac's reviled Fournier [less a matter of his talent and fit, more a matter of dollars and cents, plus opening up playing time for big wings RJ Barrett, Cam Reddish, Quentin Grimes and Trevor Keels], then we could end up with a young, tough, talented, uber-motivated point guard in Jalen Brunson, rethink our 2021 free agent two year-third year team option signings, retool their contracts into cap space, CONTINUE TO DEVELOP OUR PUPPIES and free up Randle and Barrett to make their next evolutionary steps by taking the ball and first option facil-i-tating responsibilities out of their hands, so we have less isolation, more motion and cutting, and more well-set up three pointers.   

This appears to be how it could all be breaking down, and as per Thibs' input and comfort level, much as he was ixnay on the Kemba, and loved Noel and Burks, you've got to figure he put in a STRONG GOOD WORD for both Rose & Gibson as his vets of choice on this puppy farm...

Rose to give us carefully monitored- feelgood off the bench minutes, and to mentor Brunson-Quickley-McBride, while Gibson remains Thibs' bench big of last resort, and to mentor [PRESUMABLY] Mitch Robinson, Jericho Sims, Julius Randle and Obi Toppin.

Anyway, as of Friday, July 1st, we will have a clearer idea of whether this Plan B was pulled out of Rose's ass or seemingly calculated by our collective brain trust of GM Scott Perry, WWW, Capologist/VP Strategic Planning Brock Aller, Super Scout/Assistant GM Walt Perrin and holdover, special assistant to the general manager, Allan Houston.   

PPS: We shall see.  Fingers Crossed, with the added bonus that if it all falls into place as it appears it might, yet another opportunity to revel in the sheer stupidity of loud mouth super fan/serial dumbass Stephen A. as the waiter brings him a double portion of CROW SASHIMI from the sushi bar. 

PPPS: Then again, it could all blow up in our fucking faces much as damn near everything else has over the past twenty years. 

PPPPS: Still, Rose gets credit for accuring draft capital and NOT EATING OUR YOUNG. 

PPPPPS: Confoundingly complex, is it not?  Let Us PRAY.  TO BE A KNICKS FAN IS TO SUFFER. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 28, 2022, 03:22:08 PM
Quote from: chipstern on June 27, 2022, 11:16:35 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 27, 2022, 06:20:51 PM
http://www.noceilingsnba.com/p/the-shining-trevor-keels (http://www.noceilingsnba.com/p/the-shining-trevor-keels)

I think we are good in the backcourt and hope Brunson picks the big D.

If we are going to get into a bidding war, lets do it over Miles Bridges.

Disagree.

He knows this - just being a forum prick
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 28, 2022, 03:23:38 PM
And screwed with Kyrie, off and on when the fancy strikes him one way or another.


When we get Brunson, Nets still even or better than Knicks.  Maybe much better.  We'll see.
Title: So what?
Post by: carlos123 on June 28, 2022, 05:24:24 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on June 28, 2022, 03:23:38 PM
And screwed with Kyrie, off and on when the fancy strikes him one way or another.


When we get Brunson, Nets still even or better than Knicks.  Maybe much better.  We'll see.

But not because of Kyrie.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Hamilton Samuels on June 28, 2022, 05:59:51 PM
Kyrie is another good example why nobody with half a brain gives a flying fuck about the NBA.
Title: Troll Alert
Post by: chipstern on June 28, 2022, 06:17:30 PM
Quote from: Hamilton Samuels on June 28, 2022, 05:59:51 PM
Kyrie is another good example why nobody with half a brain gives a flying fuck about the NBA.

Hey...

Aren't you late for your toilet cleaning shift at Mar-A-Lago?

I almost feel sorry for y'all, you adult diaper wearing weenie, if this is how you fill your empty hours.

Clearly, having only half a brain...well, the thing speaks for itself.

Fuck you.

And good night, loser. 
Title: Brunson
Post by: chipstern on June 28, 2022, 07:20:53 PM
Looking like Brunson is coming.

Are we going to overpay?

Better Van Vleet, DeRozan money, than Hayward, Wall money.

Pricey?

Sure.

Not half as pricey as what we would have to give up in assets and draft capital to have a shot at Devonte Murray.

Anyway you slice it, a Van Vleet class rudder is a significant upgrade over a Payton/Walker point. 

Perhaps the Knicks and Mavs can turn things into a sign and trade and make Facil happy and take Fournier off our hands as a significant asset.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 28, 2022, 09:02:43 PM
I am happy to give the clips a future pick to see off Noel.

Bridges helps this team way more long and short term more than Brunson does.

Also I would rather be in a bidding war with cautious Jordan than bold Cuban over their secondary stars.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 28, 2022, 09:15:26 PM
Looking like Brunson is coming.




But dont forget - signing Pop had nothing to do with it
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 28, 2022, 10:01:08 PM
The Athletic conducted a poll, asking 16 officials in NBA front offices what they would deem a fair number for Barrett in an extension this summer or fall. Responses ranged from  15 million to  30 million a year. No one advocated for the Knicks to give him the max. Exactly half of the responses were a nice, clean four years,  100 million, making it by far the most common proposal from the polled executives.
 




yyeppp...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 28, 2022, 10:22:31 PM
We have the space. Noel and Burks to Detroit along with two seconds and cash. Looks like nothing comes back and we can keep Taj and Rose.

We should be about 32 mil under, enough to overpay someone this summer.

Taj
Randle Toppin
Reddish Fournier
Barrett Grimes Keels
IQ Rose McBride

That does not look like a roster that aught to prioritize Jalen Brunson in free agency.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 28, 2022, 10:36:07 PM
Hardy gets the Jazz job. Hopefully that means Bryant will stay in NY.
Title: Re: Troll Alert
Post by: Hamilton Samuels on June 28, 2022, 11:21:06 PM
Quote from: chipstern on June 28, 2022, 06:17:30 PM
Quote from: Hamilton Samuels on June 28, 2022, 05:59:51 PM
Kyrie is another good example why nobody with half a brain gives a flying fuck about the NBA.

Hey...

Aren't you late for your toilet cleaning shift at Mar-A-Lago?

I almost feel sorry for y'all, you adult diaper wearing weenie, if this is how you fill your empty hours.

Clearly, having only half a brain...well, the thing speaks for itself.

Fuck you.

And good night, loser.

Your ignorance and idiocy is once again on full display. You deserve this pitiful "sport".

Heh
Title: Such As It Is
Post by: chipstern on June 28, 2022, 11:49:51 PM
Not sure we are done yet. But Detroit appears to be suitably grateful for Duren.  Not that Noel and Burks cannot help them.

Robinson, Sims, Gibson

Randle, Toppin

Barrett, Reddish

Fournier, Grimes, Keels

Brunson, Quickley, Rose, McBride
Title: Re: Troll Alert
Post by: carlos123 on June 28, 2022, 11:53:55 PM
Quote from: chipstern on June 28, 2022, 06:17:30 PM
Quote from: Hamilton Samuels on June 28, 2022, 05:59:51 PM
Kyrie is another good example why nobody with half a brain gives a flying fuck about the NBA.

Hey...

Aren't you late for your toilet cleaning shift at Mar-A-Lago?

I almost feel sorry for y'all, you adult diaper wearing weenie, if this is how you fill your empty hours.

Clearly, having only half a brain...well, the thing speaks for itself.

Fuck you.

And good night, loser.

It looks like Mr. Utley is not in Chips good graces.

Very UNWISE move by Mr. Utley!
Title: Re: Troll Alert
Post by: chipstern on June 29, 2022, 12:02:10 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on June 28, 2022, 11:53:55 PM
Quote from: chipstern on June 28, 2022, 06:17:30 PM
Quote from: Hamilton Samuels on June 28, 2022, 05:59:51 PM
Kyrie is another good example why nobody with half a brain gives a flying fuck about the NBA.

Hey...

Aren't you late for your toilet cleaning shift at Mar-A-Lago?

I almost feel sorry for y'all, you adult diaper wearing weenie, if this is how you fill your empty hours.

Clearly, having only half a brain...well, the thing speaks for itself.

Fuck you.

And good night, loser.

It looks like Mr. Utley is not in Chips good graces.

Very UNWISE move by Mr. Utley!

Utley

The Uriah Creep of the Forum.

Suddenly, I have a burgeoning regard for Kiid.
Title: Homework Assignment For FACIL
Post by: chipstern on June 29, 2022, 12:05:47 AM
Quote from: chipstern on June 28, 2022, 11:49:51 PM
Not sure we are done yet. But Detroit appears to be suitably grateful for Duren.  Not that Noel and Burks cannot help them.

Robinson, Sims, Gibson

Randle, Toppin

Barrett, Reddish

Fournier, Grimes, Keels

Brunson, Quickley, Rose, McBride

Okay Facil.

Work your magic.

Find a soft landing for Fournier.

Clippers?

Mavs [sign and trade]

Spurs

Tough sell.

Think Evan is a Knick.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 29, 2022, 12:16:17 AM
Fournier and a highly protected first or two seconds for Harrison Barnes.

The Brunson thing if true precludes pursuing Mo Bamba. Though come to think of it a Fournier Bamba sign and trade offering in accompaniment the same picks also works for me.

The CAA thing makes me think the Brunson noise is for real and we will likely be hit with tampering. I was worried that Brunson move would be the last one since it eats all our space, but perhaps there may be a little room left in which to wiggle.
Title: Re: Troll Alert
Post by: carlos123 on June 29, 2022, 12:53:46 AM
Quote from: chipstern on June 29, 2022, 12:02:10 AM
Utley

The Uriah Creep of the Forum.

Suddenly, I have a burgeoning regard for Kiid.

Well, ok.

But both of them have the heh 😼
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 29, 2022, 01:02:34 AM
Sending back Fournier would make taking on Brunson a lot sweeter to me. We have work to do elsewhere on the roster.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 29, 2022, 09:08:55 AM
Not sure we are done yet. But Detroit appears to be suitably grateful for Duren.  Not that Noel and Burks cannot help them.


One thing forum always seems to losesightof is how much better other teams in our conference are getting.  Last year's CHA is this year's DET


Speaking of Charlotte, hearing they are not maxing out Bridges.
Title: Re: Troll Alert
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 29, 2022, 09:14:56 AM
Quote from: chipstern on June 29, 2022, 12:02:10 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on June 28, 2022, 11:53:55 PM
Quote from: chipstern on June 28, 2022, 06:17:30 PM
Quote from: Hamilton Samuels on June 28, 2022, 05:59:51 PM
Kyrie is another good example why nobody with half a brain gives a flying fuck about the NBA.

Hey...

Aren't you late for your toilet cleaning shift at Mar-A-Lago?

I almost feel sorry for y'all, you adult diaper wearing weenie, if this is how you fill your empty hours.

Clearly, having only half a brain...well, the thing speaks for itself.

Fuck you.

And good night, loser.

It looks like Mr. Utley is not in Chips good graces.

Very UNWISE move by Mr. Utley!

Utley

The Uriah Creep of the Forum.

Suddenly, I have a burgeoning regard for Kiid.

Dont run him off - Samuels is a good sports guy when not being attacked.  forum can use some new voices
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 29, 2022, 09:16:51 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 29, 2022, 01:02:34 AM
Sending back Fournier would make taking on Brunson a lot sweeter to me. We have work to do elsewhere on the roster.

MORE shoters = BETTER, Fac - not worse when you add a point guard.

Hate to evn see Burks go - but THERE is where you get the Reddish and Grimes minutes you seek.  Not with losing Evan.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 29, 2022, 09:25:42 AM
Trade talk in Boston

Brogdon comes in

Going out -  G Williams, Pritchard, Theis, Nesmith and 2 future number 1 picks

Is  Indy getting enough?  what  do they even do with Pritch and  Nesmith?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 29, 2022, 10:18:35 AM
Oooooo baby - I like this   -

https://hoopshype.com/rumor/knicks-to-pursue-dejounte-murray-too/


May be Fac's landing spot for Fournier
Title: Re: Troll Alert
Post by: elephant on June 29, 2022, 11:01:35 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on June 29, 2022, 09:14:56 AM
Quote from: chipstern on June 29, 2022, 12:02:10 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on June 28, 2022, 11:53:55 PM
Quote from: chipstern on June 28, 2022, 06:17:30 PM
Quote from: Hamilton Samuels on June 28, 2022, 05:59:51 PM
Kyrie is another good example why nobody with half a brain gives a flying fuck about the NBA.

Hey...

Aren't you late for your toilet cleaning shift at Mar-A-Lago?

I almost feel sorry for y'all, you adult diaper wearing weenie, if this is how you fill your empty hours.

Clearly, having only half a brain...well, the thing speaks for itself.

Fuck you.

And good night, loser.

It looks like Mr. Utley is not in Chips good graces.

Very UNWISE move by Mr. Utley!

Utley

The Uriah Creep of the Forum.

Suddenly, I have a burgeoning regard for Kiid.

Dont run him off - Samuels is a good sports guy when not being attacked.  forum can use some new voices

Comes by and takes a shit on our collective heads.

That's not a new voice.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on June 29, 2022, 11:04:27 AM
Tough to lose Burks.

But, okay, inevitable.

Detroit starting to look good.
Title: Re: Troll Alert
Post by: Hamilton Samuels on June 29, 2022, 11:29:39 AM
Quote from: chipstern on June 29, 2022, 12:02:10 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on June 28, 2022, 11:53:55 PM
Quote from: chipstern on June 28, 2022, 06:17:30 PM
Quote from: Hamilton Samuels on June 28, 2022, 05:59:51 PM
Kyrie is another good example why nobody with half a brain gives a flying fuck about the NBA.

Hey...

Aren't you late for your toilet cleaning shift at Mar-A-Lago?

I almost feel sorry for y'all, you adult diaper wearing weenie, if this is how you fill your empty hours.

Clearly, having only half a brain...well, the thing speaks for itself.

Fuck you.

And good night, loser.

It looks like Mr. Utley is not in Chips good graces.

Very UNWISE move by Mr. Utley!

Utley

The Uriah Creep of the Forum.

Suddenly, I have a burgeoning regard for Kiid.

You've had a boner for Kid for years. nice to see you finally coming out, especially during Pride Week.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 29, 2022, 12:28:02 PM
Hammy, post your sex fantasies in Meander where you May or somewhere like that.

Here when sweaty men bang their bodies together, we like them to keep their shorts on.

Thanks.
Title: Detroit
Post by: chipstern on June 29, 2022, 01:56:38 PM
Quote from: elephant on June 29, 2022, 11:04:27 AM
Tough to lose Burks.

But, okay, inevitable.

Detroit starting to look good.

Cade Cunningham/Killian Hayes/Saben Lee
Jaden Ivey/Alec Burks/Cory Joseph
Saddiq Bey/Hamidou Diallo
Marvin Bagley III/Kelly Olynyk/Isaiah Livers
Isaiah Stewart/Nerlens Noel/Jalen Duren

A Cunningham/Ivey back court, with Bagley and Bey and Stewart up front, and Noel, Duren, Burks and Hayes coming off the pine, is a competitive 9- man rotation. 
Title: The Heat Is ON
Post by: chipstern on June 29, 2022, 03:00:36 PM
Quote from: chipstern on June 28, 2022, 11:49:51 PM
Not sure we are done yet. But Detroit appears to be suitably grateful for Duren.  Not that Noel and Burks cannot help them.

Robinson, Sims, Gibson

Randle, Toppin, Hunt

Barrett, Reddish

Fournier, Grimes, Keels

Brunson, Quickley, Rose, McBride

Going to be SERIOUS PRESSURE on Brunson to get the prospective startng five of Fournier, Barrett, Randle and Robinson to cohere and compete at a high level, get us playing with motion and pace and pressure on the paint. 

Are we on the same level as Milwaukee, Boston, Philly, Miami, Chicago and Toronto.  Oh, and Brooklyn? 

Ummmmm...no.  Can we compete?  Potentially, yes. 

There is a second tier of Atlanta, Charlotte, Cleveland that would seem to make up the Eastern Top Ten. 

Then there are teams on the cusp, which would seem to be the Knicks and Wizards. 

Did the Magic, Pacers and Piston get better? 

If healthy, they are all going to be much tougher. 

What then is our path forward? 

As of the July 1 opening of the FA season, having excised Walker, Burks and Noel, and presumably slotting in [Knick On Wood] Brunson and Robinson, our roster, from the oldest players to youngest [and we are clearly, as per Leon Rose, ALL IN ON YOUTH] is now:

Taj Gibson[37]
Derrick Rose [33]
Evan Fournier [29]
Julius Randle [27]
Jalen Brunson [25]
Mitchell Robinson [24]
Obi Toppin [24]
Jerico Sims [23]
Immanuel Quickley [23]
Cam Reddish [22]
RJ Barrett [22]
Quentin Grimes [22]
Feron Hunt [22]
Miles McBride [21]
Trevor Keels [18]

Feron and Jericho are presently on two-ways, Keels is a rookie, and Reddish is on the trading block cusp. 

Jalen is not a top tier PG? 

Be that as it may...

HE IS A GENUINE, ActualFactual POINT GUARD 

He has gotten better in each and every season. 

And we surely saw his competitive edge in the playoffs, as the Mavs made it all the way to going nose to nose with the eventual NBA champs in the Western Finals. 

2021-2022 [Brunson]

31.9 MPG [79 games]
16.3 ppg
2 pt FG% [.545]
3 pt FG% [.373]
FT% [.840]
REB 3.9
ASS 4.8

Worth noting that those stats often came playing next To Luka Doncic, a magnet for opposing defenses. 

As per the notion that we are overpaying [we are] or that Brunson is not top tier [he isn't], for perspective, when we went to playoffs in 2020-21, with a winning record, our PGs were Elfrid Payton and Derrick Rose

2020-2021 [Payton]

23.6 MPG [63 games]
10.1 ppg
2 pt FG% [.383]
3 pt FG% [.375]
FT% [.682]
REB 3.4
ASS 3.2

2020-2021 [Rose]

23.6 MPG [26 games]
12.0 ppg
2 pt FG% [.445]
3 pt FG% [.402]
FT% [.968]
REB 3.0
ASS 4.0

As for the starting PG Brunson is most often compared to, another 6'1" baby bull...

2021-2022
FRED VAN VLEET

37.9 MPG [65 games]
20.3 ppg
2 pt FG% [.403]
3 pt FG% [.377]
FT% [.874]
REB 4.4
ASS 6.7
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Hamilton Samuels on June 29, 2022, 03:29:43 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 29, 2022, 12:28:02 PM
Hammy, post your sex fantasies in Meander where you May or somewhere like that.

Here when sweaty men bang their bodies together, we like them to keep their shorts on.

Thanks.

I'm sure chipper can try to defend himself, fac. He's got a little more going on than Larry and likely doesn't need your "help".

Speaking of help, who is going to make the NBA a real sport again?

Title: PS: Trader Facil
Post by: chipstern on June 29, 2022, 03:35:20 PM
Received wisdom is that the Magic are not picking up Mo Bamba's option. 

As per Trader Facil, I too would surely like the Knicks to make a run at him. 

Only 24. 

A Harlem kid. 

A real 7-footer with an immense wing span. 

Given how the Magic have yanked his chain year in and year out, he has gotten better. 

2021-2022 [Bamba]

25.9 mpg [71 games]
10.6 ppg
2 Point % [.563]
3 Point % [.381]
FT% [.781]
8.1 REB
1.2 ASS
1.7 Blocks

2021-2022 [Robinson]

25.7 mpg [72 games]
8.5 ppg
2 Point % [.762]
3 Point % [---]
FT % [.486]
8.6 REB
0.5 ASS

Not sure if we have the 10 million MCE, or if that would even get the job done.  A REAL LONG SHOT. 

Got to believe Bamba will get significant interest from any number of our competitors. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 29, 2022, 03:51:29 PM
One last go before the shit gets real,

Send Randle to Dallas in a sign & trade for Brunson. Let Mitch walk.

Use our gianormous cap space to sign Bamba, Jalen Sticks Smith, and one of Bruce Brown or Caleb Martin, the Unrestricted Charlotte one not the Miami RFA. I might be Cody not Caleb, but I will say Caleb for arguments sake.

Bamba Smith Sims
Toppin Brown Gibson
Reddish Fournier
Barrett Grimes Keels
Brunson IQ Rose McBride

We open spacing and movement among our bigs so Brunson and RJ have room to operate near the rim without sacrificing shot blocking drop coverage by our bigs.

This makes way more sense to me than clearing all our loot for a Brunson Murray backcourt. 

I even managed to keep Fournier on the team and in the rotation.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on June 29, 2022, 04:18:48 PM
Mighty white of you.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on June 29, 2022, 04:33:00 PM
Thanks, Kiid.  It's like you don't even pretend anymore!!!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 29, 2022, 04:33:18 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 29, 2022, 03:51:29 PM
One last go before the shit gets real,

Send Randle to Dallas in a sign & trade for Brunson. Let Mitch walk.

Use our gianormous cap space to sign Bamba, Jalen Sticks Smith, and one of Bruce Brown or Caleb Martin, the Unrestricted Charlotte one not the Miami RFA. I might be Cody not Caleb, but I will say Caleb for arguments sake.

Bamba Smith Sims
Toppin Brown Gibson
Reddish Fournier
Barrett Grimes Keels
Brunson IQ Rose McBride

We open spacing and movement among our bigs so Brunson and RJ have room to operate near the rim without sacrificing shot blocking drop coverage by our bigs.

This makes way more sense to me than clearing all our loot for a Brunson Murray backcourt. 

I even managed to keep Fournier on the team and in the rotation.

Good MFing Lord.

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTUf_6NOjPFNoaDF4KTqV3ZKmajuVZS9nNw0g&usqp=CAU)
Title: BRIGHTER VISTAS: Knicks Hope Inevitably Springs Eternal
Post by: chipstern on June 29, 2022, 04:50:46 PM
(https://scontent-lga3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/290700513_10224453258533006_5025141539124312647_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p843x403&_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=Fx3oPzhZ8vMAX--kM_I&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-2.xx&oh=00_AT9igT4gBMfeqTsTx1kgekj9gx9tAzHHnZNm13GMVNv3aw&oe=62C23AD4)


We Won't Be Fooled Again... 

Or will we?  



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 29, 2022, 06:39:15 PM
Atl got Murray. They must really like his pairing with Young. Is this Gallos first run with the Spurs?

Juan Toscano-Anderson and Lu Dort hit the market. Amend my signings list.

Portis, reportedly looking to go back to the Bucks, turned down his option. If we do the Brunson-Randle thing, his situation is worth watching as we will have some big boy shoes to fill.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 29, 2022, 10:18:49 PM
Atl let it
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 29, 2022, 10:28:43 PM
Brunson, Quickley, Rose, McBride




Not sure there are many minutes now for IQ - may as well find him a home.  McMiles?  Even tougher to see him on court
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 29, 2022, 10:52:47 PM
Depth, plus Rose and IQ play as well or better off the ball. I am still not sold that we get much better by adding Brunson, but that seems to be the way we want to go.

I would offer Dallas Fournier and a protected first for the Brunson sign and trade.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 30, 2022, 01:31:37 AM
Miles Bridges on bail for domestic violence. Timing is everything.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 30, 2022, 03:13:59 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 30, 2022, 01:31:37 AM
Miles Bridges on bail for domestic violence. Timing is everything.

Still want to dump Randle to pursue Bridges?

Be careful what you wish for, eh?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 30, 2022, 09:29:35 AM
Move Raandle (Dallas deal, but we need other provisions), sign TUCKER.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 30, 2022, 10:32:28 AM
Brittney Griner to be the subject of a  show trial in Russia, guilty verdict very likely

Brittney Griner trial for allegedly taking hashish oil into Russia is scheduled to begin Friday. At that point it will have been 134 days since the WNBA star was taken into custody while trying to enter the country through a Moscow-area airport. She faces 10 years in prison if convicted. But before the trial even begins, U.S. experts and officials say Griner will be the subject of a show trial, and a guilty verdict is almost a certainty. The entire exercise, they say, is a negotiation tactic to push the Biden administration into trading for her freedom. 

 
Sources close to Griner declined to say how she intends to plead, but experts say that with no chance of acquittal it would make strategic sense to just plead guilty now. That might cause headaches for the U.S. State Department and the White House, but it could make Griners  life more bearable, and a deal to go home more likely. 

via T.J. Quinn  ESPN

 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on June 30, 2022, 12:41:54 PM
Very unlucky. She's really in a sad predicament. In general, you don't want to be on the other side of the law in Russia. But now? Jesus.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 30, 2022, 12:55:41 PM
Seems Fac may get  his wish

Hearing one of the options for Mavs is to not get stuck with NADA for Brunson - deciding to take back a Fournier type contract from NY.

I dont like it but Leon might.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 30, 2022, 02:07:28 PM
http://mobile.twitter.com/IanBegley/status/1542538707953238017 (http://mobile.twitter.com/IanBegley/status/1542538707953238017)

Our summer league roster.

Dumping Evan would be some compensation for overpaying Brunson, if it goes down that way.

The Russians took a high profile hostage, as thugs do. They will give her back as part of their negotiated surrender.
Title: Tick Tock
Post by: chipstern on June 30, 2022, 02:46:50 PM
Not sure how all in EITHER the Knicks nor Dallas would be on a sign and trade, involvling Evan Fournier and perhaps even Taj, if Gibson is needed for the Burnson numbers to line up, with the caveat/understanding that the Mavs would waive or buy out Taj so he could return to the Knicks on a vets minimum, and be groomed in the long term to be Thibs' all purpose plug and play Herb Williams-cum-Big Man Coach. 

Fournier is clearly the most logical move, as he is an actual asset, and despite Facil's obsessive, immutable, relentless 24/7 erection for us to ship Julius out on a slow boat to China, THE ENTIRE PURPOSE OF GOING ALL IN ON THE 25 YEAR OLD BRUNSON IS TO relive Randle & Barrett of facilitation responsibilities, and get them easier looks in rhythm with enhanced efficiency.  PLUS...Fournier's departure, while not something I long for, would give us money for Mitchell and Jalen, as well as opening up more playing time for Reddish and Grimes and Quickley.

Isaiah Hartenstein apparently, according to the Blogospehre, is a serious target, and likewise some interest in Andre Drummond.

INTERESTING. 

IH is only 24.  In 17.9 minutes over 68 games for the Clippers, averaged 8.3 ppg, and curiously, in hoisting 30 threes last season, he made 14.  Posted a .689 FT% based on 91-132, with 2.4 assists, 4.9 baords, and 1.1 blocks. 

Drummond is 28.  Still a lousy FT shooter, but gave the Nyets a respectable 11.8 ppg, 10.3 boards, 1.4 assists and 1.0 block in 22.3 minutes over 24 games. 

(https://playerswiki.com//uploads/2020/01/05/isaiah-hartenstein-with-is-girlfriend-kourtney-1578222214.jpg)

Based on youth, offensive efficiency, skills as a facilitartor and the luster of his fiance, a former Miss Texas, my vote is Isaiah.

Chicago is purportedly interested in Isaiah, as well as Bomba.  So, we shall see. 

If we signed IH, would be a nice complement to Mitchell.  Then again, banging against Drummond in practice would be good for Robinson, and they could practice free throws together. 

IH is younger, has a prettier girlfriend, and there is clearly still room for growth in his overall game, whereas Andre is what he is, though reasonably durable, a native of the metropolitan area, and still a beastial finisher, offensive rebounder and imposing physical specimen--not chopped liver.  I liked Noel, a lot, but his fragility was surely an issue. 
Title: Interesting
Post by: chipstern on June 30, 2022, 02:53:20 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FWgyx0ZX0AA9MpB?format=jpg&name=large)

Some Knicks projects in Grimes, McBride and Sims, our rookie Keels, and some retruning faces from last season's Westchester squad. 

Aamir Sims, MJ Walker, Feront Hunt and Jean Montero are worth keeping an eye on. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on June 30, 2022, 03:08:41 PM
So where is Durant going?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 30, 2022, 03:09:49 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 30, 2022, 02:07:28 PM
http://mobile.twitter.com/IanBegley/status/1542538707953238017 (http://mobile.twitter.com/IanBegley/status/1542538707953238017)

Our summer league roster.

Dumping Evan would be some compensation for overpaying Brunson, if it goes down that way.

The Russians took a high profile hostage, as thugs do. They will give her back as part of their negotiated surrender.

I like GATHERING high percentage 3 point shooters myself in this days' NBA. 

But as I  said - I trust Leon and what he could do with the extra loot.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 30, 2022, 03:13:18 PM
Chip - numbers dont need lining up with Dallas.   We have the cap space and they can take back LESS, just not more salary

Cheers, pal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 30, 2022, 03:13:24 PM
Quote from: elephant on June 30, 2022, 03:08:41 PM
So where is Durant going?

DISNEY WORLD
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 30, 2022, 03:15:50 PM
Hartenstein is a stretch guy (.383 career from 3).  Great add - exactly what I was looking for when speaking of Mitch/Sims maybe not being totally optimum.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 30, 2022, 03:17:15 PM
Any other 60/38 shooters out there?

Toss in 4.7 assists aand 2.3 blocks per 36 minutes

HARTENSTEIN.

(then maybe we look at DiVincenzo and McClung - heh)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 30, 2022, 03:19:01 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on June 30, 2022, 03:13:18 PM
Chip - numbers dont need lining up with Dallas.   We have the cap space and they can take back LESS, just not more salary

Cheers, pal.

Mmmmmm.

I'd rather keep Fournier, truth be told.  I thought he was getting better as he had more reps, more months with his new team. 

But removing his $19,000,000 over the next two seasons would help subsidize new contracts for Jalen and Mitchell, whaysoever we are going to invest in R.J. moving forward, and provide some cash for new free agents, such as the afforementioned Hartenstein.   

Let alone, with the absence of Fournier AND Burks, provide regular rotation minutes for Reddish and Grimes to play through their mistakes and grow their game. 
Title: I can't take it sometimes....
Post by: lesterluv on June 30, 2022, 03:34:38 PM
Nets really gonna be left building around this assclown...

(https://ftw.usatoday.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/90/2022/04/AP-Celtics-Nets-Basketball-1-e1650890332768.jpg?w=1024&h=576&crop=1)

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/34174171/kevin-durant-requests-trade-brookyn-nets-sources-say (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/34174171/kevin-durant-requests-trade-brookyn-nets-sources-say)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 30, 2022, 03:48:56 PM
I would think they would get some talent back if they dealt  KG/Kyrie
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on June 30, 2022, 03:54:06 PM
not insubstantial, surely,...but still funny as f**ck how much damage one sage-burning anti-vaxx idiot can do
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 30, 2022, 03:55:46 PM
I have no idea what you meaan.  Harden made his own mess.  And KD is a big boy - maybe acting a little immaturely right now.  If he forces a deal I will pull for the oposition every series he plays going forward.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on June 30, 2022, 03:58:37 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on June 30, 2022, 03:55:46 PM
I have no idea what you meaan.  Harden made his own mess.  And KD is a big boy - maybe acting a little immaturely right now.  If he forces a deal I will pull for the oposition every series he plays going forward.

lol lol lol
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on June 30, 2022, 04:01:47 PM
Nets better get "substantial"... cause they sure as f' can't rebuild.

Rockets also receive three unprotected first-round picks from Brooklyn -- in 2022, 2024 and 2026 -- plus pick swaps in 2021, 2023, 2025 and 2027

They are simply going nuts right now down in Houston, lol....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 30, 2022, 04:07:12 PM
oooooooo, those latepicks and swaps...

(Nets have 2 #1 picks in '23 after dealing one for O'Neal)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on June 30, 2022, 04:12:06 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on June 30, 2022, 03:54:06 PM
not insubstantial, surely,...but still funny as f**ck how much damage one sage-burning anti-vaxx idiot can do

yeah, that's crazy shit
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on June 30, 2022, 04:12:25 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on June 30, 2022, 03:55:46 PM
I have no idea what you meaan.  Harden made his own mess.  And KD is a big boy - maybe acting a little immaturely right now.  If he forces a deal I will pull for the oposition every series he plays going forward.

I already do that!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on June 30, 2022, 04:16:54 PM
Timeline of events:

2:25 PM Est - Nets Twitter account posts a pic of Simmons being back at the facility

3:00 PM Est - Kevin Durant requests a trade

Title: And...
Post by: lesterluv on June 30, 2022, 05:36:53 PM
... it appears to be a done deal. I don't know about anybody else, but I'm pleased.

https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1542614570942046211 (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1542614570942046211)

Free agent Jalen Brunson intends to sign a four-year, near $110M deal with the New York Knicks in free agency, sources tell
@TheAthletic @Stadium
. The Mavericks never received chance to make offer, sources said.


*** (was already pleased that Leon took away any Thibs-playing-Burks-at-pg possibilities)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on June 30, 2022, 05:38:27 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on June 30, 2022, 04:07:12 PM
oooooooo, those latepicks and swaps...

rofl..ain't nothing guaranteed late about those picks and swaps..don't matter who they get back


*** team currently "led" by the only player in league history to sit out an entire season because he was too scared of the fans
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on June 30, 2022, 06:26:31 PM
another "small" signing:

https://nypost.com/2022/06/30/knicks-add-isaiah-hartenstein-in-2022-nba-free-agency/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter (https://nypost.com/2022/06/30/knicks-add-isaiah-hartenstein-in-2022-nba-free-agency/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)

I like this one too...
Title: Done MOTHERFUCKING Deal
Post by: chipstern on June 30, 2022, 06:26:44 PM
For once, management delivered the whole enchilada.
 
Yipee

Jalen Brusnon apparently informed the Mavericks that there would be no need for a meeting after 6:00PM tonight. 

4 Years x $110,000,000

Averages out to $27,500,000 per year.

To put that into perspective?  And we are not suggesting that Jalen Brunson is a top tier talent, but he is a DAWG, he is only 25, and HE IS A MOTHERFUCKING KNICK.  Here are some comprable 2022-2023 salaries. 

Julius Randle [23.7]

Evan Fournier [18.0]

Derrick Rose [14.5]

Joe Harris [18.6]

Ben Simmons [35.4]

Mike Conley [22.6]

Jrue Holiday [33.6]

Jaylen Brown [28.7]

Al Horford [26.5]

Marcus Smart [17.2]

C.J. McCollum [33.3]

Carris LaVert [18.79]

Spencer Dimiwiddie [20.171]

Timmy Hardaway [19.6]

D'Angelo Russell [31.3]

Chris Paul [28.4]

Kyle Lowry [28.3]

Jamal Murray [31.65]

John Collins [23.5]

Trae Young [36.6]

Tobias Harris [37.6]

Terry Rozier [21.48]

Gordon Hayward [30.075]

Eric Gordon [19.56]

Pascal Siakam [35.4]

Fred Van Vleet [21.25]

DeAron Fox [30.35]

DeMar DeRozan [27.3]

Lonzo Ball [19.5]

Jerami Grant [20.9]

Eric Bledsoe [19.375]

Buddy Hield [21.1]

Malcolm Brogdon [22.6]

Myles Turner [18.0]

Markelle Fultz [16.5]

Kemba Walker [27.4]

Kristaps Porzingis [33.8]

Dejounte Murray [16.57]

Jaren Jackson Jr. [28.94]

DeAron Fox?  Nice player.  30 million per?  Lousy three point shooter [.297].  23.2 ppg, 3.9 reb, 5.6 assists

Jaren Jackson Jr?  Nice stretch 4-5.  28-27-25-23 for next four years.

Tobias Harris?  Nice player.  37.6? 

Porzingis?  33?

I would say that 26 year old D'Angelo Russell is an interesting comparison.  Nice player.  Bigger at 6'4" but in terms of stats, 18.1 ppg, 3.3 reb, 7.1 ass, .340 3-PT%, .825 FT%

Jalen will be 26 in August.  16.3 ppg, 3.9 reb, 4.8 ass, .373% 3-PT%, .840 FT%

So, a lot of money?  Jalen will now be our highest paid player, right up there with Julius, who is due a comparable 23-25-27-29 over the next four seasons he and Jalen will [presumably] be teammates. 

So if people are fixating on the Knicks OVERPAYING?

Grow Up. 

This is the NBA, circa 2022, and as you can see, competition for talent leads to some pretty wacky salaries. 

And the Knicks have a bushel of #1 and #2 picks over the next several years.  We have a pair of #1 picks next summer. 

So does Jalen put us over the top?  Is he the last word in pont guards? 

Let's put it this way.  WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME WE HAD A FUNCTIONAL PG?

Stephon Marbury?  Raymond Felton?  Elfrid Payton?

JALEN BRUNSON IS A Knick
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 30, 2022, 06:28:54 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on June 30, 2022, 06:26:31 PM
another "small" signing:

https://nypost.com/2022/06/30/knicks-add-isaiah-hartenstein-in-2022-nba-free-agency/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter (https://nypost.com/2022/06/30/knicks-add-isaiah-hartenstein-in-2022-nba-free-agency/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)

I like this one too...

Oh SMACK. 

We nailed Hartenstein? 

Excellent. 

Now let's re-up Mitchell and move forward. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 30, 2022, 06:40:09 PM
I like the Hartenstein pick up a lot, if that happens.

I will say this for Rose, he seems to get the guys he targets as opposed to previous bosses who would faithfully stack chips then at the end of the day get left holding the bag. We will see how it works on the court, but our recruiting engine seems to be working just fine.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 30, 2022, 06:49:33 PM
Hartenstein Sims
Randle Toppin Gibson
Reddish Fournier
Barrett Grimes Keels
Brunson IQ Rose McBride

Room for Mitch who we can exceed the cap to sign. Obi needs to work on covering wings in this roster if he wants a role worthy of his talent.
Title: Going Forward
Post by: chipstern on June 30, 2022, 06:51:03 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 30, 2022, 06:40:09 PM
I like the Hartenstein pick up a lot, if that happens.

I will say this for Rose, he seems to get the guys he targets as opposed to previous bosses who would faithfully stack chips then at the end of the day get left holding the bag. We will see how it works on the court, but our recruiting engine seems to be working just fine.

Assuming Mitchell signs on the bottom line?

FIFTEEN KNICKS GOING FORWARD

C: Robinson, Hartenstein, Sims

PF: Randle, Toppin, Gibson

SF-SG: Barrett, Reddish, Fournier, Grimes, Keels

PG-SG: Brunson, Quickley, Rose, McBride

The East Is TOUGH AS A MOTHERFUCKER For 2022-2023. 

It will be a daunting challenge to make the Top Six, let alone the 7-10 play in. 

But Rose's Knicks have apparently made a smart calculated reboot, cleaning up many of the faux pas of last summer.  Will miss Burks.  But now, thanks for everything, expect him to light us up when Detroit comes into the Garden, but he is no longer standing in the way of Reddish, Grimes or Quickley. 

Brunson wanted to be the bell cow, the Lead DAWG?

Bring it, Jalen. 

PS: NOW comes the challenge of THIBS finding minutes for everyone, especially Obi & Cam, IQ & Grimes. McBride & Sims would appear to be bringing up the rear of the depth chart.  WE SHALL SEE.  A Nice Problem To Have.  A lot of young, hungry pups. 
Title: Brunson
Post by: chipstern on June 30, 2022, 06:55:52 PM
Post has the Knicks signing Brunson 4 x 104 million, while the Athletic has Hartenstein at 2 x 16.7 million. 

Guaranteed Money. 

Brunson at $26 Million per, is basically commensurate with Julius money. 
Title: Meanwihle
Post by: chipstern on June 30, 2022, 07:33:46 PM
The Nyets
ARE
UTTERLY FUCKED
 

I mean, again, be careful what you wish for. 

All those unprotected #1 picks they owe the Rockets for James Harden. 

They paid Kevin Durant a fortune to sit out an entire year and recuperate, logging 90 games out of a possible 246 over three seasons. 

They paid Kyrie Irving a fortune to be a part time player, logging 103 appearances out of a possible 246 over three seasons. 

They traded James Harden, who played 80 games over parts of two seasons, for the enigmatic Ben Simmons, who has played ZERO FUCKING GAMES for the Nyets.   

They amused the living piss out of LesterDawg. 

Meanwhile, Kevin Durant's former team, the Golden State Warriors, have won another championship.

Meanwhile, Harden has apparently [APPARENTLY] been very diligent about his offseason conditioning in anticipation of 2022-2023.  And has reportedly [REPORTEDLY] worked cooperatively with Sixers VP Daryl Morey on his new contract re-up to allow the Sixers some financial flex moving forward, at the same time as Durant and Irving ARE NUKING THE NYETS, who have given them everything they asked for. 

PS: Brunson for 4 x $104,000,000?  Portland just reupped 23 year old Anfernee Simmons, like Jalen, a competitive up and coming talent, to a 4 x $100,000,000 extension.  So could it be that what the Knicks offered Jalen was not overpaying, but the going price for wrapping up young talent?  Dallas made it clear, numerous times, that there was a ceiling on what they were prepared to offer Brunson.  Their opening offer was 4 x $55,000,000. 

PPS: Mo Bamba re-ups for 2 x $10 million with the Magic.  Tyus Jones 2 x $30 miilion with Grizz.   Our homie Bobby Portis 4 x $49 million with the Bucks.  Nicholas Batum, 2 x 22 million with the Clippers.  Joe Ingles, 1 x 6.5 million with the Bucks. 

PPPS: Otherwise, PJ Tucker to the Sixers.  DeAndre Jordan to the Nuggets.  Malik Monk 2 x $20 Million to the Kings.  Oladipo 1 x $11 million with the Heat.  Bradley Beal a max 5 x $251 million mega deal with the Wizards.  Devin Booker a 4 x $214 miilion supermax extension with the Suns.  Nikola Jokic with the largest deal in NBA HISTORY, a 5 x $264 million extension with the Nuggets. 

PPPPS: Saw something to the effect that some Mavs source was wondering out loud as to HOW IS THIS NOT TAMPERING?  Interesting question.  Good luck taking that path, guys.  You consistently low-balled Jalen, and he bet on himself.  Que sera.

PPPPPS: Considering some of the money being tossed around, Knicks got off easy. 

PPPPPPS: Considering Kevin Durant is due a guaranteed $44, $47, $51, $54 million through 2025-2026, good luck getting back equal value.  Hell, any value.  DeAndre Ayton on a max from the Suns?  Chuckle. 

PPPPPPPS: Boy oh boy did the Knicks ever dodge a bullet when Durant & Irving dissed them.  BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR. 
Title: Bankshot Alert
Post by: chipstern on June 30, 2022, 08:07:36 PM
Apparently Gallinari is not remaining with San Antonio vis a vis the trade with Atlanta. 

Word is he is weighing offers from the Bulls & Celtics. 

I suspect that they Celtics are a much better fit, chemistry wise. 
Title: Guess What?
Post by: chipstern on June 30, 2022, 09:35:25 PM
Kevin Knox, 2 x $6 million, PISTONS. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 30, 2022, 09:44:35 PM
Saw that. Good pick up. He was the best postseason shooter on the Hawks last year. He has almost grown into his body.

The Pels should get on the phone to Brooklyn about KD.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 30, 2022, 09:54:08 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 30, 2022, 09:44:35 PM
Saw that. Good pick up. He was the best postseason shooter on the Hawks last year. He has almost grown into his body.

The Pels should get on the phone to Brooklyn about KD.

WHY?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 30, 2022, 10:11:24 PM
They have the pieces, but none are KD. It is usually beneficial to consolidate talent in the NBA.
Title: Re: So what?
Post by: carlos123 on June 30, 2022, 10:21:36 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on June 28, 2022, 05:24:24 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on June 28, 2022, 03:23:38 PM
And screwed with Kyrie, off and on when the fancy strikes him one way or another.


When we get Brunson, Nets still even or better than Knicks.  Maybe much better.  We'll see.

But not because of Kyrie.

Hey Chams, u still feel that way?

Like Chip said:

The Nyets
ARE
UTTERLY FUCKED
 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 30, 2022, 10:22:26 PM
I hope we have a standing offer of Jules, Evan, and a couple of other peoples protected firsts for KD.
Title: Really?
Post by: carlos123 on June 30, 2022, 10:25:08 PM
Quote from: Fac on June 30, 2022, 10:22:26 PM
I hope we have a standing offer of Jules, Evan, and a couple of other peoples protected firsts for KD.

Not so sure, Fac.

How long before KD also bails on us?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on June 30, 2022, 10:50:07 PM
So the draft worked pretty well after all.

And given that I've moaned a hundred times last year about the Knicks needing a point guard, I am happy about this move, and really intrigued by what will emerge.

O and the agony of the Nets just makes everything sweeter.

Now if Durant just ends up out west, I'm set.
Title: Re: Really?
Post by: chipstern on June 30, 2022, 11:05:31 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on June 30, 2022, 10:25:08 PM
Quote from: Fac on June 30, 2022, 10:22:26 PM
I hope we have a standing offer of Jules, Evan, and a couple of other peoples protected firsts for KD.

Not so sure, Fac.

How long before KD also bails on us?

Great GREAT world class talent, but a pouty no class narcissist.

Not someone you want in the foxhole with you. Nyets paid him to rehab for a year, indulged his every whim, fired Coach Atkinson, gave him a massive max deal, traded for Harden, indulged Kyrie, and he still bailed on them.

Is a total loser.

PELICANS HAVE INGHRAM, MCCOLLUM,  ZION, and a host of young motivated pups. They are a Team.  TEAM.  Durant is about me, Me. ME.

After he refused to even give the Knicks the time of day in free agency, he went out of his way to diss the Knicks in the press, rubbing our  noses in poop.  Smirking. 

And now he would ACCEPT a trade?

FUCK KEVIN DURANT.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 01, 2022, 12:32:38 AM
Let your true feelings be known.

On another note,

http://www.theringer.com/2022/6/30/23190665/jalen-brunson-knicks-nba-free-agency (http://www.theringer.com/2022/6/30/23190665/jalen-brunson-knicks-nba-free-agency)

Also, still all quiet on the Mitch front.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 01, 2022, 12:44:03 AM
In addition to having CAA connections, both of todays FAs are 2nd generation pros.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on July 01, 2022, 01:41:36 AM
Oh no not Brunson. Another wasted decade!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 01, 2022, 09:56:26 AM
SF SG   Barrett, Reddish, Fournier, Grimes, Keels


Did u pick that order out of a hat?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 01, 2022, 09:58:28 AM
Raise your hand if you cannot WAIT for the season to begin so we can hear Fac incessantly whine about 2 of our top talents.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 01, 2022, 01:31:34 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 01, 2022, 09:56:26 AM
SF SG   Barrett, Reddish, Fournier, Grimes, Keels


Did u pick that order out of a hat?

It should be Barrett, Reddish, Grimes, Fournier, Keels. Keels may move up, but we should let him play first before we decide.

Mitch is back at 15 per, 60 over four years.we are over the cap and under the tax. We may be done except for picking the two way players

Mitch Isiah Jericho
Randle Obi Taj
Reddish Fournier
Barrett Grimes Keels
Brunson IQ Rose McBride

I can see Hartenstein wind up as a closer.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 01, 2022, 03:26:30 PM
Celts get Brogdon
Title: Hope Springs Eternal
Post by: chipstern on July 01, 2022, 03:39:20 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 01, 2022, 01:31:34 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 01, 2022, 09:56:26 AM
SF SG   Barrett, Reddish, Fournier, Grimes, Keels


Did u pick that order out of a hat?

It should be Barrett, Reddish, Grimes, Fournier, Keels. Keels may move up, but we should let him play first before we decide.

Mitch is back at 15 per, 60 over four years.we are over the cap and under the tax. We may be done except for picking the two way players

Mitch Isiah Jericho
Randle Obi Taj
Reddish Fournier
Barrett Grimes Keels
Brunson IQ Rose McBride

I can see Hartenstein wind up as a closer.

Perspective?

There is, as always, the OH GOD WE STILL SUCK WE WILL ALWAYS SUCK perspective of long suffering fans such as Luee.

There is, as always, the WELL THIS IS HOPEFUL AND COUNTS AS PROGRESS perspective of eternally positive pussies such as Chip. 

Hard to argue with the evidence of our eyes.  Collectively we are always projecting outrageous expectations on our Knicks, and inevitably being underwhelmed.  Dolan has never been gun shy about spending money, but in terms of our "ledership" ever since Dave "How Long Do We Have To Pay For The Stanley Cup" Checketts solidified his power base, allowing Pat Riley to walk and the debacle of the Ewing Trade/Expulsion From Eden and a series of crippling moves by his piss boy Scott Layden, moving on to Isiah Thomas, and thence to Donnie Douche, Glenn Grunwald, Phool Jagoff, Steve Mills...one crushing dissappointment after another, being teased and farted on by every free agent looking to drive up their market value, eating our young, no player development, gutting our draft capital and making dubious selections when we actually had any picks. 

Worth noting that Mitchell Robinson is NOW the very first Knick draft pick to be resigned to a contract at the expiration of their rookie deal since...CHARLIE WARD. 

Speaking for myself?

The Rose Crime Family, and his concilerges, such as WWW, Scott Perry & Copmany, have had their share of missteps, to be sure, and the chummy sense of FAMILY which led us to pursue talent based on CAA relationships and the Kentucky connection, has, led us inevitably to the Brunson signing, another CAA connection [Leon's first client?], which proceeds directly from Leon's first decision, which was to pass on PG Tyreese Haliburton to select a player repped by his son, in Obi Toppin, and now, JALEN BRUNSON. 

I mark it as progress to take note of how The Rose Crime Family has pivoted from mis-steps by Steve Mills and those precipitated during its own watch. 

We are still dealing with the implications of Steve Mills' Quxiotic pursuit of Kevin Durant & Kyrie Irving with the assets garnered from the Porzingis Debacle. 

Who'd Mills sign in their stead?  Julius Randle, Bobby Portis, Elfrid Payton, Taj Gibson and Reggie Bullock.  Drafting Barrett.     

How did Rose follow that?  Drafting Toppin, not picking up option year on contracts of Portis, Payton and Gibson, signing Alec Burks, Nerlens Noel, reupping Payton at a lower salary, bringing back Gibson when Omari Spellman flamed out, and losing out on Portis. 

Drafted well, cumulatively: Passing on Haliburton was a mis-step, but Toppin, Quickley, Grimes, Jokubaitis, McBride, Sims were good picks. 

Then, following a winning season from Coach Thibs, keyed by a breakthrough season from Julius Randle and a wonderful post trade deadline second act from Derrick Rose, Leon re-upped everyone to two year deals, with a third year team option, let Bullock walk in lieu of Evan Fournier.  Oh, and the feel good Kemba Walker signing. 

Well, we all know how that went.  Kemba was a disaster, with gumpy knees and no D, and disrupted the chemistry of Julius and RJ.  Evan took Reggie's place, and clearly Julius missed Bullock [and Payton], and Fournier took the better part of the year to click chemistry wise with Julius, who chafed under all-star expectations and bgeing tasked with being Thibs' point forward, albeit WITH NO POINT GUARD after Rose went down, and Thibs insisted on Burks as his facilitator, which he gamely attempted.  We moved on from our Kevin Knox experiment and traded him for Cam Reddish after the all-star break, and through injuries and happenstance, in the absence of a lead guard, RJ took a more aggressive role as a creator, and when given the opportunity, Obi, IQ, Grimes, Reddish, McBride and Sims showed flashes of competitive talent. 

In the 2022 offseason, having what amounted to a handful of one year contracts in Walker, Burks and Noel, through juggling our #11 pick and converting it into multiple #1 picks and transactions, managed to convert those contracts into cap space and used THAT to sign Brunson and Hartenstein.  And reup Mitchell.  Still holding on to a pair of #1 picks in 2023, and a beaucoup of #1 and #2 picks, as touted, over the next seven years. 

HOW MUCH HAVE WE MOVED THE ENTERPRISE FORWARD?   

Well? 

There is the HOPE, that having an authentic point guard to run THIBS' pick and roll heavy offense, which, with a hopefully healthy DRose and a more confident IQ, will allow Randle and RJ and Fournier to be more efficient, and to get easier looks in rhythm with an actual factual PG at the helm.  We have CONTINUITY in that we have a core of young deveopmental players with 1-2 years behind them in Toppin, Quickley, Sims, Reddish, Grimes and McBride, and another summer TOGETHER to prep for Thibs' third season and compete for more minutes.  We have re-upped Robinson, which gives us more stability, and solidified his support system with the signing of Hartenstein and the return of Sims and Gibson. 

AND MOST OBVIOUSLY, WE HAVE GONE ALL IN ON Jalen Brunson
.   

It is duly noted that Brother Luee is not enthusiastic about his signing, viewing it seemingly as MORE OF THE SAME. 

We disagree. 

BRUNSON is a solid citizen and a competitor who is a proven winner, and who displayed significant leadership in the playoffs, contribuitng mightily to the Mavs runot the WCF Finals.

IS HE A TOP TIER PG?

Jalen Brunson Is An Actual Factual POINT GUARD, who has gotten better every year as a pro, with a winning pedigree going back to his role on those perennial Villinova Final Four Teams. 

Brunson gives us an authentic PG to rudder our offense, with solid offensive skills. 

He gives us at least 30 minutes a night of ACTUAL FACTUAL point guard skills to stabilize our offense, improve our pace and motion and efficiency.  As much as he improved with the mentoriship of Jason Kidd, we may anticipate likewise with the veteran leadership of a hopefully healthy Derrick Rose, who no longer had to log more than 15-20 minutes a night or play in back to backs.  IQ has shown he is ready to make the next step. 

Are we a more competitive team?

Yes we are. 

How high should our expecations be? 

WELL....

EVERYONE ELSE GOT BETTER, as well.  SO...

Atlanta scored Deounte Murray to pair with Trae Young, which is huge. 

Boston is a lock to sign Danilo Gallinari as a FA once he clears waivers from the Murray Trade.  And, AND, the Celtics just traded Daniel Theis, Aaron Nesmith and their 2023 #1 pick to the Pacers for MALCOLM BROGDAN, which is a huge uptick for them. 

Philly figures to have a much healthier James Harden, a newly signed PJ Tucker, a mcuh improved Ty Maxey, and a rejuvenated Joe Embid. 

Chicago just reupped Zack Levine, brought on Andre Drummond, and should have a healthy Lonzo Ball. 

The Bucks and Heat are still powerhouses. 

Toronto finished with great momentum.  As did the Cavaliers, who will be getting Sexton and Rubio back. 

The Knicks are part of the scrum in the next tier, including Charlotte and Washington, with Detroit, Orlando and Indiana having made significant talent upgrades. 

The NYETS?  Stay tuned. 

So Brunson gives us an uptick in talent, a highly motivated, solidly configured PG to add stability and cohesion.  To the degree that everyone else comes ready for Freddie, and another year of continuity and stability and growth, and to the degree that Jalen can bond with Randle, and help him get his mojo back, and free up RJ to be even more of wild card, AND THIBS EVOLVES WITH THIS TEAM, we should be a good competitive team, capable of earning a playoff spot. 

Beyond that? 

We have a long row to hoe.  We all expect Brunson to be a good player.  If he can make the next evolutionary step, and pull Julius, RJ, Mitchell and Evan along with him, health willing, we should minimally be a competitive team. 

THAT COUNTS AS PROGRESS.

If that ain't enough Knicks fans, well, you might request a trade.  I hear Brooklyn is an up and comer.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 01, 2022, 04:12:23 PM
We have solid competitive depth at every position now. Something may come along and the status of both Keels and Sims may be up in the air as other player movement around the league shakes out, but that is about it.

Our competitive depth should mean there is no one the coach should be afraid to sit if they space or slack.

We had pretty stellar defense over the last month or so of the season. I would like that to be our hallmark going forward. The FO has created a roster that can get it done.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 01, 2022, 04:25:28 PM
I would offer Fournier, who I hear is being shopped, and two protected firsts for OG.

It might be too light an offer, but OG would complete our lineup and be a big boost to our D in the short term.
Title: WOW
Post by: chipstern on July 01, 2022, 04:51:59 PM
As Ed Sullivan might say, a really, Really REALLY BIG TRADE. 

Having just reupped Karl Anthony Towns as a Max Player, now the Wolves are seemingly viewing him as a Stretch Four. 

They just shipped four unprotected first round picks in 2023, 2025, 2027, with a pick swap in 2026 and a top 5 protected pick in 2029 to the Jazz for RUDY GOBERT. 

Damn. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 01, 2022, 04:55:40 PM
Not expecting a whole lot from Derrick.  He could go the way of Kemba.  Its fine.  We are covered.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 01, 2022, 04:57:50 PM
Jean Montero, Garrison Brooks and a host of others.   Vegas.  Knicks.  2022.

https://empiresportsmedia.com/new-york-knicks/grimes-sims-mcbride-to-star-in-knicks-summer-league-squad/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 01, 2022, 05:04:54 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 01, 2022, 04:25:28 PM
I would offer Fournier, who I hear is being shopped, and two protected firsts for OG.

It might be too light an offer, but OG would complete our lineup and be a big boost to our D in the short term.

OG Anunoby?

The Raptors have this Gary Trent Junior fellow at SG. 

Apparently, I read where the Trailblazers gave a deal for OG a look see, but deemed the price kind of high. 

Reportedly the Raptors were asking for the No. 7 pick, Josh Hart or Nassir Little, and an additional first-round pick. 
Title: DRose
Post by: chipstern on July 01, 2022, 05:34:35 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 01, 2022, 04:55:40 PM
Not expecting a whole lot from Derrick.  He could go the way of Kemba.  Its fine.  We are covered.

Thibs' bond with DRose is quite a bit more profound that any connection he had with Kemba. 

As you may recall, DRose had very nice chemistry with Obi and Quickley playing off the ball.  Rose provided a template for how to get Obi involved, and I recall quite a few sweet bac cuts along the base line. 

For that matter, I wouldn't be surprised to see Rose get some minutes WITH Brunson.  As you know, when Rose was in his salad days with  the Bulls, and Rick Brunson was an AC for Thibs, Rose had something of a mentor's/big brother relationship with Jalen.  I would expect him to be quite motivated to continue the big brother role. 

Then again, I would think that Thibs' love of vets notwithstanding, that Rose, like Gibson, will have a greater, assistant coach/end of the bench/emergency plug in role in the event that Brunson-IQ-McBride or Mitchell-Isaiah-Jericho go down. 

We have nice depth from 1-through-15, and some promising players coming along on our Westchester team, including Hunt and Sims. 

With our depth and draft resources, we are well positioned to take advantage in the event free agents come on the market, as unlikely as that seems. 
Title: Rudy Gobert
Post by: chipstern on July 01, 2022, 05:52:15 PM
Apparently the Utah-Minnesota trnasaction is still shaking out. 

Supposedly Wolves send 2022 # 1 pick Walker Kessler, Patrick Beverley, Malik Beasley, Jared Vanderbilt and Leonardo Balmaro also on their way to Utah, as well as 2023, 2025, 2027, 2029 #1 picks. 

Damn, the Bucks didn't get anything close to that return for Kareem Abdul Jabbar. 

On June 16, 1975, the Los Angeles Lakers acquired Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Walt Wesley from the Milwaukee Bucks in exchange for Elmore Smith, Brian Winters, Junior Bridgeman and Dave Meyers.

YIKES.  What were the Wolves thinking.  Danny Ainge must've had compromising pictures of KAT. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 01, 2022, 07:06:27 PM
Heh

Interesting take Monsieur Stern
Title: History
Post by: chipstern on July 01, 2022, 07:36:46 PM
By re-signing with New York, Robinson became the first Knicks draft pick in 23 years to earn a multi-year second contract with the team, breaking the Charlie Ward Curse.

Worth giving Scott Perry credit for getting Robinson with the Bulls' second rounder pick from OKC in the exchange for Carmelo Anthony, after Phool Jagoff torpedoed his trade value.  Scored Enes Kanter and Doug McDermott, later flipping McDermott, inexplicably, for Emmanuel Mudiay, whom Fizdale nurtured at the expense of developmental time for Ntilikina, then the Knicks LET MUDIAY WALK.   

Speaking of players Fizdale developed then the Knicks let walk, Luke Kornet just reupped with the Celtics for two more seasons. 
Title: Donte
Post by: chipstern on July 01, 2022, 07:45:06 PM
 Donte DiVincenzo has agreed to a two year $9.3 million deal with the Golden State Warriors
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 01, 2022, 07:55:37 PM
Beautiful.
Title: huh?
Post by: carlos123 on July 01, 2022, 09:07:33 PM
Quote from: chamAAcocartero8 on July 01, 2022, 07:55:37 PM
Beautiful.

Who's beautiful?

Trumptin? Trump Jr.? Eric? Ivanka?...

Ron DeSantis? Ted Cruz?... ... ...

Marjorie Taylor Greene? Lauren Boebert?...
Title: Re: huh?
Post by: chipstern on July 01, 2022, 09:50:35 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on July 01, 2022, 09:07:33 PM
Quote from: chamAAcocartero8 on July 01, 2022, 07:55:37 PM
Beautiful.

Who's beautiful?

Trumptin? Trump Jr.? Eric? Ivanka?...

Ron DeSantis? Ted Cruz?... ... ...

(https://positive-feedback.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/chip-galacitc-epicenter.jpg)

(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/e7/b9/85/e7b98518e79e727013cbca24d2e64d8b.jpg)

(https://celebsindepth.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/isaiah-hartenstein-girlfriend-2021.jpg?ezimgfmt=rs:370x208/rscb2/ng:webp/ngcb2)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FURczihUAAAbA18.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B60XZEvCQAEOgW3.jpg)

Title: Agree
Post by: carlos123 on July 01, 2022, 09:54:59 PM
Chip, I agree with your selection.

Just not sure ChamAAco would too.

Chams, what do you say?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 01, 2022, 10:16:25 PM
If that ain't enough Knicks fans, well, you might request a trade.  I hear Brooklyn is an up and comer.   


Have to see who BK ends up with and just how big an asshole some of you here are before I decide who to follow for '22-'23 
Title: huh? #2
Post by: carlos123 on July 01, 2022, 11:18:14 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on July 01, 2022, 10:16:25 PM
If that ain't enough Knicks fans, well, you might request a trade.  I hear Brooklyn is an up and comer.   


Have to see who BK ends up with and just how big an asshole some of you here are before I decide who to follow for '22-'23

Who is Chamaco angry 😡 at?

The Knicks?

The Nyets?

me?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 02, 2022, 12:35:09 AM
Kiddo has been having a hard time ever since Kyrie entered his Vaseline eating stage. 
Title: How about the Thunder?
Post by: carlos123 on July 02, 2022, 12:54:41 AM
Quote from: Fac on July 02, 2022, 12:35:09 AM
Kiddo has been having a hard time ever since Kyrie entered his Vaseline eating stage.

Maybe he should follow OKC.
Title: The Harder They Fall
Post by: chipstern on July 02, 2022, 09:41:29 AM
The Hornets have washed their hands of Miles Bridges.

He is now an unrestricted free agent. 
Title: Jalen Brunson: Received Wisdom [The Final Word]
Post by: chipstern on July 02, 2022, 10:06:54 AM
Most of the learned scribes, touts and commentators who've weighed in on the Knicks draft and free agent machinations, in a round up of winners and losers, have reflexively proclaimed us losers in affixing grades of C+ and such to our calculated moves. 

GIVEN, we have a less than scintilating track record, and last season's meltdown, in which seemingly every move we made blew up in our faces, has surely fermented a petri dish of smug dismissal. 

Hey, are we surprised? 

But I tell you what, people are seriously underestimating Jalen Brunson, and pooh pooing his talent, his pedigree, his leadership and his game, AS IF THEY PLAYOFFS NEVER HAPPENNED. 

"Let's see how he does without Luka drawing defensive attention."

Uhhhhhh, we've already seen how he did without Luka, when handed the keys to the car, and it was pretty bloody impressive. 

https://nypost.com/2022/07/02/derek-harper-promises-knicks-fans-will-love-jalen-brunson/ (https://nypost.com/2022/07/02/derek-harper-promises-knicks-fans-will-love-jalen-brunson/)

There is an interesting read in this morning's NY POST, in which ex-Maverick/Knick point guard, DEREK HARPER, the rudder of our Pat Riley-led 1993-1994 NBA Finals Knicks, speaks up with considerable enthusiasm on behalf of JALEN BRUNSON, taken from the perspective of a winning point guard, and as a Mavs broadcaster who has watched Jalen Brunson compete and come of age. 

Title: Re: The Harder They Fall
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 02, 2022, 10:10:18 AM
Quote from: chipstern on July 02, 2022, 09:41:29 AM
The Hornets have washed their hands of Miles Bridges.

He is now an unrestricted free agent.

The next Ray Rice, no doubt.

China beckons.

But...

due process, of course 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 02, 2022, 10:15:10 AM
There is an interesting read in this morning's NY POST, in which ex Maverick Knick point guard, DEREK HARPER, the rudder of our Pat Riley led 1993 to 1994 NBA Finals Knicks, speaks up with considerable enthusiasm on behalf of JALEN BRUNSON, taken from the perspective of a winning point guard, and as a Mavs broadcaster who has watched Jalen Brunson compete and come of age.



Cool.

But when did Harper see Brunson run a team's show?

An did he ever see him play dogged defense a la...... well - DEREK HARPER?

Knicks have been said to be looking for a defensive type at that off guard spot.  RJ uses length to compensate, Evan height.  But neither is a shut down guy nor destined to be.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 02, 2022, 10:19:57 AM
A two way guard with a strong frame and a 6 7 wingspan, Keels is intriguing to NBA teams due to the combination of toughness, off court intangibles, feel for the game, defensive versatility and passing creativity he shows. He showed a sense for the moment in some of Dukes  biggest games this season, coming to life as a shot maker and finisher around the basket in several crucial moments despite his youth.



Too young - but  an excellent pick - and maybe in  time what we seek at the position.


https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/34022408/projected-first-round-pick-trevor-keels-leaving-duke-keep-name-nba-draft-source-says
Title: Hartenstein
Post by: chipstern on July 02, 2022, 03:20:40 PM
Watching some clips of Isaiah Hartenstein.

Not as athletic as Mitchell or Jehrico, but a very skilled player.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 02, 2022, 05:31:33 PM
He's whiter.

Better shooter to put it mildly.  Excellent shot blocker as well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on July 02, 2022, 05:32:52 PM
Zion's payday.

How do you give such a huge contract to a guy who hasn't proved he can stay healthy in the NBA?

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on July 02, 2022, 05:34:10 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 02, 2022, 05:31:33 PM
He's whiter.

Better shooter to put it mildly.  Excellent shot blocker as well.

This shit of yours in just so tired.

None of us give a fuck about the cat's pigment.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 02, 2022, 05:46:15 PM
Quote from: elephant on July 02, 2022, 05:34:10 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 02, 2022, 05:31:33 PM
He's whiter.

Better shooter to put it mildly.  Excellent shot blocker as well.

This shit of yours in just so tired.

None of us give a fuck about the cat's pigment.

Kid is still waiting for Gene Hackman to bust into his barber shop and beat his ass.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 02, 2022, 06:47:00 PM
Quote from: elephant on July 02, 2022, 05:34:10 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 02, 2022, 05:31:33 PM
He's whiter.

Better shooter to put it mildly.  Excellent shot blocker as well.

 


 

 
This shit of yours in just so tired.

None of us give a fuck about the cat's pigment.

"Not as athletic" 

heh



Assclown statement gets proper rebuttal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 02, 2022, 06:49:06 PM
Quote from: elephant on July 02, 2022, 05:32:52 PM
Zion's payday.

How do you give such a huge contract to a guy who hasn't proved he can stay healthy in the NBA?

I do not know


But bring in up again in March.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 02, 2022, 07:43:39 PM
Mitch need to put some of his newfound wealth into buying a baby hook and a reliable push shot to extend his range out to 8 feet from the hoop.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 02, 2022, 08:08:27 PM
Let's go, Brook-lyn!!

https://hoopshype.com/rumor/lakers-nets-discussing-kyrie-irving-russell-westbrook-swap/

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on July 02, 2022, 08:53:06 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 02, 2022, 07:43:39 PM
Mitch need to put some of his newfound wealth into buying a baby hook and a reliable push shot to extend his range out to 8 feet from the hoop.

Wouldn't a good hook shot from him be beautiful?

Worth the price of admission.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 02, 2022, 10:10:49 PM
The value of your whole stupid exercise is zero, exactly in line with the value of your conversation and your entire world view.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 02, 2022, 10:12:14 PM
Quote from: elephant on July 02, 2022, 08:53:06 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 02, 2022, 07:43:39 PM
Mitch need to put some of his newfound wealth into buying a baby hook and a reliable push shot to extend his range out to 8 feet from the hoop.

Wouldn't a good hook shot from him be beautiful?

Worth the price of admission.

And it would not make him any less vicious of a dunker.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on July 03, 2022, 11:02:18 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 01, 2022, 03:26:30 PM
Celts get Brogdon

Love the moves. (including Galinari)

Brad gets a real PG and bench scoring for spare parts and a 1 thats closer to a 2.

celts just need a 3rd big to replace Theis and they should be set



Title: Re: WOW
Post by: bankshot1 on July 03, 2022, 11:05:40 AM
Quote from: chipstern on July 01, 2022, 04:51:59 PM
As Ed Sullivan might say, a really, Really REALLY BIG TRADE. 

Having just reupped Karl Anthony Towns as a Max Player, now the Wolves are seemingly viewing him as a Stretch Four. 

They just shipped four unprotected first round picks in 2023, 2025, 2027, with a pick swap in 2026 and a top 5 protected pick in 2029 to the Jazz for RUDY GOBERT. 

Damn.

Trader Danny looking to relive his KG/Pierce 2-team transformational Nets trade.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 03, 2022, 01:58:02 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on July 03, 2022, 11:02:18 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 01, 2022, 03:26:30 PM
Celts get Brogdon

Love the moves. (including Galinari)

Brad gets a real PG and bench scoring for spare parts and a 1 thats closer to a 2.

celts just need a 3rd big to replace Theis and they should be set

Play Kornet. You are paying him again. There must be a reason.
Title: Mikal Bridges On Brunson
Post by: chipstern on July 03, 2022, 04:18:16 PM
(https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/a57284e2cc66aa8ed63380af2ccf1052257be89c/c=46-0-2252-2941/local/-/media/2018/01/20/USATODAY/usatsports/b3821140cdb64f7ebcb8d6f6f7ced78b.jpg?width=300&height=400&fit=crop&format=pjpg&auto=webp)

Yall must not know how cold JB really is

lol

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTArGqApeULXY3rCLTxPQ_sieNrPBOaXUVnm9D88kd6YzQ3YoDzOQO4zqdQfvtRpHhhyxw&usqp=CAU)
Title: Kiid Coulter Rides Again
Post by: chipstern on July 03, 2022, 04:35:18 PM
(https://media0.giphy.com/media/h62Ixfl38VD9u/giphy.gif)

Starring As TrumpDeDumpty

in

To Shill A Mocking Turd

Just when you think it's safe to get into an adult conversation with the forum contrarian

(https://funnystatus.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/worried-cat.gif)

Come home Mr. Utley...please pick up the Hostility Line. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 03, 2022, 04:38:47 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 03, 2022, 01:58:02 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on July 03, 2022, 11:02:18 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 01, 2022, 03:26:30 PM
Celts get Brogdon

Love the moves. (including Galinari)

Brad gets a real PG and bench scoring for spare parts and a 1 thats closer to a 2.

celts just need a 3rd big to replace Theis and they should be set

Play Kornet. You are paying him again. There must be a reason.

Yup

Williams, Horford & Kornet seems like a plan. 

Also, why not Gallinari as a small ball stretch 5? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 03, 2022, 05:01:32 PM
I hope Danilo and Al get run together. That is like Webber Divac level slickness in the frontcourt.

I also hope we beat their asses and finish ahead of them, but I very much respect their offseason moves.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 03, 2022, 05:05:38 PM
The Bulls have picked up Lonzo insurance. Dragic for a one year minimum, more or less.
Title: You Bet Your Life
Post by: chipstern on July 03, 2022, 06:03:58 PM
Just read another fevered projection by one Marc J. Spears of Andscape, in which he projected how the Warriors could "potentially" offer the best package for both teams, vis a vis, KD.

Wiggins, Poole, Kuminga and Wiseman for Durant. 

The sheer insanity of that made my little head hurt. 

Disembowel a championship team, to reconnect with the petulant egoist, who didn't want to share the spotlight with a deferential Steph Curry, when he could create beautiful music with walking land mine Kyrie Irving. 

Yikes.

Meanwhile, Nyets should just stand pat and do nothing. 

Durant is contractually obligated for four more years, Kyrie for one. 

If they don't show up at training camp, don't pay them. 

Meanwhile, Lakers supposedly offering Westbrook, Talen Horton Tucker and their 2027 #1 pick for Irving.  Tucker?  Due $10-11 million for next two seasons.  Be still my heart.  Seriously? Pretty insulting offer.  Why not a rite of fellatio while they're at it.

Nets supposed to have countered with Kyrie & Joe Harris for Westbrook and that for shit 2027 #1 pick, minimally.  Still a lousy exchange, but better than taking back an overpaid slug like Tucker.  Some kahones the Lakers have. 



YIKES. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on July 03, 2022, 08:02:51 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 03, 2022, 01:58:02 PM
Quote from: bankshot1 on July 03, 2022, 11:02:18 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 01, 2022, 03:26:30 PM
Celts get Brogdon

Love the moves. (including Galinari)

Brad gets a real PG and bench scoring for spare parts and a 1 thats closer to a 2.

celts just need a 3rd big to replace Theis and they should be set

Play Kornet. You are paying him again. There must be a reason.

IMO he's a garbage time player and was a 4th string C/big on the Celts last year. With Al's age, TL's knees and Theis gone, I'd like a more skilled back-up just in case. Maybe revisit former fan favorite Kelly O and use the $17M tax exception related to last year's Fournier trade. They have to use it or lose it pretty soon.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 04, 2022, 12:07:16 AM
Nothing is going to happen until the league is finished carving up the Nyets.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 04, 2022, 12:52:52 AM
LOL

Chip's take on THT is comical.
Title: To Shill A Mocking Bird
Post by: chipstern on July 04, 2022, 12:36:46 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 04, 2022, 12:52:52 AM
LOL

Chip's take on THT is comical.

Gratified as always to bring some joy to your life. 

Funny how THT's name seemingly comes up in every trade discussion the Lakers are involved in.

He was part of a three way deal, with the Raptors I think, which the Knicks bowed out of at the trade deadline this past spring. 

And now the Lakers are willing to suck it up, wiping a tear from each eye, and sacrifice this burgeoning talent and the esteemed Mister Westbrook for Mister Irving. 

Could it be that he was not the rising star they counted on? 

THT is due $10 million his season, with a player option for $11 million in 2023-24.  Fourth highest salary on the Lakers behind Westbrook, James and Davis.

60 games in 2021-22
25.2 minutes per game
10.0 ppg
.800% FT
3.2 reb
2.7 ass
1.0 steal
.416% 2-pt
.269% 3-pt

Yup, you sure can pick 'em. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 04, 2022, 01:28:02 PM
THT in talks for good talent.  There were deals Lakers ket him out of as well

Ball dominat guy.  Doesnt mesh well with what Lakers have now.

Will turn just 22.  Excellent size in a ball handling scoring package.  Nice up and coming NBA player.  (PER 12.3, 12.9 and 11.0)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 04, 2022, 01:33:21 PM
I do appreciate you preferring Grimes who makes 8 mil  less.  But this isnt the issue.  Got more money because he was a second rounder who blossomed.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 04, 2022, 02:55:38 PM
Re:  Durant musings

Are these folks nuts?

Robert Williams, Jaylen Brown, Marcus Smart and there number ones?

Wow.

By the say I would rather Durant playing with Brown than with Tatum.
Title: Grimes
Post by: chipstern on July 04, 2022, 03:54:14 PM
Tucker or Grimes?

Do I prefer Grimes?

Gee, I don't know.

A 6'5" NBA body.  Committed, physical defender.  Three point range, still working on consistency, but capable streaky unconsciousness.   Can get to the rack and finish, needs to do so more often, so defenders don't lock into his catch and shoot opportunities. .
Why are we even having this discussion?

Oh thats right.  Kiid Coulter is an unabashed Tucker enthusiast, but he understands my preference.

Mmmmm

😊
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 04, 2022, 03:58:21 PM
Kid is an idiot who does not understand basketball or life really at all.

There will be an extra premiums for Eastern Conference teams trying to get Durant.

Look at the Suns and Pels and possibly Denver though they are not talked about much as most likely landing spots. 
Title: chamAAco v Tatum
Post by: carlos123 on July 04, 2022, 04:10:06 PM
Quote from: chamAAcocatero8 on July 04, 2022, 02:55:38 PM

By the say I would rather Durant playing with Brown than with Tatum.

Of course you would rather.

Your dislike for Tatum is well documented.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 04, 2022, 04:23:45 PM
If Fournier can get himself in the kind of shape Doug McBuckets did in Indiana, I will give him a fresh chance to be a top seven guy for us without dragging down the team. He is a bit older so it will be tough for him. We shall see.
Title: Re: Grimes
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 04, 2022, 04:39:42 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 04, 2022, 03:54:14 PM
Tucker or Grimes?

Do I prefer Grimes?

Gee, I don't know.

A 6'5" NBA body.  Committed, physical defender.  Three point range, still working on consistency, but capable streaky unconsciousness.   Can get to the rack and finish, needs to do so more often, so defenders don't lock into his catch and shoot opportunities. .
Why are we even having this discussion?

Oh thats right.  Kiid Coulter is an unabashed Tucker enthusiast, but he understands my preference.

Mmmmm

😊

No - as I alluded to I figured your "preference" was due to salary.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 04, 2022, 04:43:04 PM
There will be an extra premiums for Eastern Conference teams trying to get Durant.


So you like that offer from Celts' perspective?

 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 05, 2022, 01:10:16 AM
You would have

Al Kornet
KG Gallo
Tatum Williams
White
Brogdon Prichard

I think the Nets would want more picks given the talent returned, possibly more swap options.

Lets assume that Kyrie and Westbrook happen as close to straight up

Nets wind up with

RW Claxton Sharpe
Simmons ONeal
Brown Harris
Curry Thomas
Westbrook Smart Carter

I do not see them loving that in Brooklyn all that much.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 05, 2022, 01:58:06 PM
Randle and Fournier for Hayward and Oubre. It works as a legal trade and I think it helps both teams.
Title: Preference
Post by: chipstern on July 05, 2022, 02:00:33 PM
My preference is that you would take a remedial reading course. 

Don't put YOUR words, in MY mouth, Lady Coulter. 

You precipitated this nonsensical either/or. 

My preference would be for Grimes, based on his talent and his fit, his offense and his defense, an NBA Body and a serious work ethic. 
Title: Sigh
Post by: chipstern on July 05, 2022, 02:10:37 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 05, 2022, 01:58:06 PM
Randle and Fournier for Hayward and Oubre. It works as a legal trade and I think it helps both teams.

Sigh

Rhymes with WHY? 

A PF and a Wing for two wings, one a certifiable 31 year old walking injury waiting to fucking happen.  In the past three seasons, GH, his on court talent notwithstanding, has only been ambulatory for 52, 44 and 49 games, and who is due $30-31 million over the next two years.  ARE YOU SHITTING ME?   

You gonna slot in Hayward and Oubre ahead of RJ and Cam?  You rate Oubre as an upgrade over Fournier?  That's rich.

Why as in WHY IN THE NAME OF GOD would you trade for Hayward?  How the FUCK does Hayward help us.  Because we've come up short on the Perennially IR List with Kemba and Nerlens gone from the womb?  And your preference for Oubre over Fournier? 

(https://i.gifer.com/origin/6b/6b078a79d3e23e5e20ef6d18d68d4a62_w200.gif)

I love you man, but Dear God DUDE, give it a rest. 

POSTSCRIPT:  In addition to the sheer lameness of this construct, and the redundancy it suggests, besides bailing out Charlotte for a very questionable signing that has not panned, vis a vis THE KNIKCS, Hayward's KARMA is truly shitty.  Utah aquired the #1 they used to select Hayward from the Phoenix Suns, as payback for eating a bad contract [a PF whose name escapes me, who'd been quite good in his day, but had gotten a big contract late in the game, and was not up to it]. The Suns?  They'd gotten the #1 pick from a team famous for eating its young, making trades that blew up in their face, and going all in on shiny objects.  As I recall, it was the second and final of the two #1 picks that the Suns had aquired in the transaction which sent Stephon Marbury to the KNICKS.  Yikes.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 05, 2022, 06:55:45 PM
Hayward managed fifty games last year. Oubre and Hayward are both better than Fournier in every respect. Randle is arguably the best player in the deal though some perceive him as more the expensive head case than effective team player. Randle keeps the Hohos on track after losing Bridges. Jordan does not like to tank. I would hope we would get draft capital in this, but even leaving that aside it leaves us in good shape

Mitch Hartenstein Sims
Obi Gordy Taj
Reddish Oubre
RJ Grimes Keels
Brunson IQ Rose McBride

It sets us up better to spread the floor and serve the youth than our present setup and it really helps our cap situation two and three years down the line.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 05, 2022, 08:59:37 PM
Mitch Hartenstein Sims
Obi Gordy Taj
Reddish Oubre
RJ Grimes Keels
Brunson IQ Rose McBride



LOL
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 05, 2022, 09:05:52 PM
http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=33694551


LETS GO!!!!
Title: Luca Vildoza Sleeps With The Fishes [AGAIN]
Post by: chipstern on July 05, 2022, 09:17:00 PM
Milwaukee waived Luca Vildoza. 

Brother can't catch a break. 
Title: Pat Riley: GENIUS
Post by: chipstern on July 05, 2022, 09:26:01 PM
Genius is the residue of design. 

Then again, there's good luck and then there is dumb luck. 

6'11" Nikola Jovic, apparently a very talented stretch 4, just turned 19, and tore it up in summer league.  Tallied 25 points on 9-16 shooting, and 5-7 from trey. 

25 PTS 9 REB 9-16 FG 5-7 3P

Fell right into Pat Riley's lap at #27.  Damn.  The rich get richer. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 05, 2022, 10:00:32 PM
Didnt Knox tear it up in summer league?

Chillax. He will be better on his second contract.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 05, 2022, 11:40:49 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 05, 2022, 10:00:32 PM
Didnt Knox tear it up in summer league?

Chillax. He will be better on his second contract.

21.3/6.5/2.3 over 4 games
Title: Facil Alert
Post by: chipstern on July 06, 2022, 01:36:37 PM
Eric Bledsoe being waived. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 06, 2022, 02:27:34 PM
18 mil is a lot to pay for a third string point guard. Portland has Lillard and Simons. They are happy to cut the salary. They are carrying Grant and a re-signed Nurk.

Bledsoe can sign for the minimum where he wants and hopefully show out for his next contract while the partial few million he got covers his expenses courtesy of Portland.

Someone was going to cut Bledsoe this year. Someone else will pick him up on the cheaps.

Portland did what I would have done with him had we gotten Bledsoe as part of a deal that sent Jules or Evan out of town.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 06, 2022, 02:30:19 PM
Monte Morris makes me feel a bit more hopeful that our protected Wiz pick actually conveys.
Title: Dawg Daze Of Summer
Post by: chipstern on July 07, 2022, 01:30:11 PM
Who are the Knicks on two way contracts?

WHY FUNNY YOU SHOULD ASK.

Forward FERON HUNT and Guard TREVOR KEELS.

Jericho Sims has just been inked to a three year standard contract, the third year a team option. 

What is the KNICKS Draft Capital Moving Forward

Incoming Draft Picks

Year   Round   From   

2023   1   -   DET   
2023   1   -   DAL   
2023   1   -   Own   
2023   1   -   WAS   
2023   2   -   DET   
2024   1   -   Own   
2024   2   -   UTA or CLE   
2024   2   -   DET   
2024   2   -   MIA   
2025   1   -   Own   
2025   2   -   BKN   
2025   2   -   Own   
2026   1   -   Own   
2026   2   -   Own   
2026   2   -   MIN   
2027   1   -   Own   
2027   2   -   Own   
2028   1   -   Own   
2028   2   -   Own   
2029   1   -   Own   
2029   2   -   Own

https://www.prosportstransactions.com/basketball/DraftTrades/Future/Knicks.htm (https://www.prosportstransactions.com/basketball/DraftTrades/Future/Knicks.htm)

The above link provides a complex array of protections for the sundry picks the Knicks aquired. 

2023

Knicks own #1
Mavericks # 1 [Top Ten Protected]

The other #1 picks...I can barely make hide nor hair out of the options.

To the best I can make out...

* I believe the Knicks got a Nuggets pick from the Thunder and conveyed it to the Hornets, who, correct me if I'm wrong, drafted Jalen Duren and promptly traded him to the Pistons. 

* Pistons pick...via Rockets and Thunder?  Top 18 protected. 

* Wizards pick...top 14, top 12, top 10, top 8 protections in successive years.

Whoosh...

Meanwhile most of the blog handicappers are pissing all over the Knicks's signings of Jalen Brunson and Mitchell Robinson, but oddly supportive of the Hartenstein signing. 

Meanwhile just a matter of times before Facil checks in with his latest Julius Randle for a handful of magic beans trade scenarios. 

(https://scontent-lga3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/292324253_10224489072628336_8378801537002830887_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p843x403&_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=D2bNDj9qhbwAX9rkuTG&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-2.xx&oh=00_AT-5vwuXg1BJ5hDrfg7SeWzq_DT0FSMOIYeBoD9GBvpSbA&oe=62CBE837)

LIFE IS GOOD 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 07, 2022, 01:53:09 PM
Well...clearly - unless Mitch takes the next giants step - Hartenstein is the best value.

Happy to hav all three aboard though I ws ready for life without Mr Robinson.
Title: Center Platoon
Post by: chipstern on July 07, 2022, 02:24:53 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 07, 2022, 01:53:09 PM
Well...clearly - unless Mitch takes the next giants step - Hartenstein is the best value.

Happy to hav all three aboard though I ws ready for life without Mr Robinson.

I like our center platoon, a quartet if you factor in Taj Gibson. 

Would like to think that competing against Hartenstein and continued mentoring from Taj would raise both Mitchell and Jehrico's game. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 07, 2022, 02:30:44 PM
I very much agree about our centers. I think our D overall has a chance to be pretty good.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 07, 2022, 02:39:47 PM
I love me some Jimmy Butler. Heat Sixers will be heated all year.
Title: One More Time
Post by: chipstern on July 07, 2022, 02:46:22 PM
C: Robinson, Hartenstein, Sims

PF: Randle, Toppin, Gibson

SF: Barrett, Reddish

SG: Fournier, Grimes, Quickley

PG: Brunson, Rose, McBride

That's fourteen. 

TWO WAY CONTRACTS: Feron Hunt [23 years old, 6'8" SF] and Trevor Keels [18 years old, 6'4" Combo Guard]

I've read about "interest" in Gibson among many teams.  No shit Sherlock.  Taj still has game. 

I would be quite suprised if Thibs went into 2022-23 without Rose & Gibson, who are his guys, and surely coaches, for all intents and purposes, on and off the floor, both in games and on the practice floor. 

I've read scenarios in which the Knicks are pondering bringing on Carmelo, which could be of some benefit to the development of Barrett and Reddish, but then again, could create a logjam where Reddish loses minutes key to his development, as Thibs inevitably yields to his veteran's predilection.   

For that matter, I suspect that Thibs might be looking at Hartenstein as something of a stretch 4 in certain situations, let alone Randle and/or Toppin functioning as small ball fives.  I kind of doubt that anyone would project Obi as a 3, let alone a 5, but something creative needs to be done, to find him more floor time, in lieu of rolling back Julius from 35-38 minutes, to 30-32. 

Anyway, it's all on the table. 

I suspect Carmelo would be a reach, especially given how the feel good signing of Kemba blew up in Leon & WWW's faces.  Still, Melo is not dealing with degenerative injuries, and he played well for the Lakers last season, averaging 13.3 ppg, 4.2 boards and 1.0 assist, converting 132 out of 159 FTs [.830%], and hitting 149 out of 397 treys [.375%], so while he just turned 38 in May, he still has game.  JUST NOT SURE he is wired to accept a Taj Gibson role, let alone a DRose, or that Thibs could resist the urge to ride that horsie. 

We shall see...I suspect that the 15th spot would be kept open to give our two-way players the opportunity to come play/[practice with the parent club, or to be positioned to swoop in on anything tempting that comes in on the waiver wire.   
Title: PJ Tucker
Post by: chipstern on July 07, 2022, 02:54:29 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 07, 2022, 02:39:47 PM
I love me some Jimmy Butler. Heat Sixers will be heated all year.

Tucker was a great pickup for the Sixers. 

Have read all manner of rumors concerning Philly looking to do the old dumperoo on Matisse Thybulle, not a great shooter, bur raised his FT% significantly last season, given only 34-43 [.791%], but still, a lock down defender.  Would think that putting him on the floor with elder defensive dawg Tucker, would be a good look.  Still, kind of crowded in the back court with Korkmaz and Milton playing behind Maxey and Harden.   

Also, I am sure the Sixers are looking to see if there are any takers for Tobias Harris' contract.  Wildly over paid, but a solid player. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 07, 2022, 05:58:31 PM
Couple of nice moves by Nets.

Fuck it - run it back.  Work on a Kyrie appeasement/extension.  Right now the roster is tight.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 07, 2022, 06:04:56 PM
Re.  Carmelo

There just arent any minutes
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 07, 2022, 06:07:24 PM
I like that Keels is on a two way deal.

Mitch Hartenstein Sims
Randle Obi Taj
Reddish Fournier
Barrett Grimes Rose
Brunson IQ McBride

It gives us room to add a credible SF-PF to the mix. No. Melo does not count.
Title: Conventional Wisdom
Post by: chipstern on July 07, 2022, 06:53:11 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 07, 2022, 06:07:24 PM
I like that Keels is on a two way deal.

Mitch Hartenstein Sims
Randle Obi Taj
Reddish Fournier
Barrett Grimes Rose
Brunson IQ McBride

It gives us room to add a credible SF-PF to the mix. No. Melo does not count.

I know the conventional wisdom would hold that my opinion is ludicrous [cue KIID], but, what's to prevent Obi from being a credible PF-SF, any more than Julius couldn't be a credible PF-C, or Hartenstein a credible C-PF.

PS: Reddish is a credible SF-SG-PF.  And Feron Hunt is going to get a long look at SF-PF. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 07, 2022, 07:24:44 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 07, 2022, 06:07:24 PM
I like that Keels is on a two way deal.

Mitch Hartenstein Sims
Randle Obi Taj
Reddish Fournier
Barrett Grimes Rose
Brunson IQ McBride

It gives us room to add a credible SF-PF to the mix. No. Melo does not count.

Do you want Chriss?

How about a trade for Holmes?
Title: Re: Conventional Wisdom
Post by: facilitatorn on July 07, 2022, 07:41:28 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 07, 2022, 06:53:11 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 07, 2022, 06:07:24 PM
I like that Keels is on a two way deal.

Mitch Hartenstein Sims
Randle Obi Taj
Reddish Fournier
Barrett Grimes Rose
Brunson IQ McBride

It gives us room to add a credible SF-PF to the mix. No. Melo does not count.

I know the conventional wisdom would hold that my opinion is ludicrous [cue KIID], but, what's to prevent Obi from being a credible PF-SF, any more than Julius couldn't be a credible PF-C, or Hartenstein a credible C-PF.

PS: Reddish is a credible SF-SG-PF.  And Feron Hunt is going to get a long look at SF-PF.

Reddish is one. If Obi can be one as well and keep up with wings on D we are in very good shape.

Hartenstein can be a credible C-PF. Jules cannot effectively protect the paint.

I am looking forward to seeing more of what Hunt is about.
Title: Content To Stand Pat
Post by: chipstern on July 07, 2022, 07:43:20 PM
As per Kiid, I see no urgency to target a #15 player. 

We have minutes to find for Toppin and Reddish.  That's more of a priority to me. 

The big wing I was interested in taking a flyer on was TJ Warren.  Nets just signed him to a one year deal, coming off of crushing Mychal Thompson-Victor Oladipo level injuries.  If Cam Reddish, also a big 6'8" wing, can rise to that level of offensive firepower and efficiency, we will be sitting in tall cotton.  In 2018-19, and 2019-20, before he went down, I remember Warren lighting us up a couple of times, and was draining 3-pointers at a .428 & .403 clip. 

Marquese Chriss?  Meh.  We have Randle, Toppin and Gibson.  WHAT FOR? 

Now, on the other hand, Richaun Holmes?  Like him a lot, and was phantisizing about him in some sort of Facil-Styled Trade Package where we sent Randle to the Kings.  Big, bruising 6'10", efficient around the hoop. 

If we hadn't gone all in by commiting to Mitchell, Isaiah and Jericho [let alone Taj, let alone Julius and Obi, let alone Cam], Holmes would be a viable target at the 4 & 5.  Not unlike the Lakers taking a second shot at Thomas Bryant, another beefy 6'10" worker bee.   

We have ample depth at the 4 & 5.  It remains to be seen how things shake out at the 2 & 3, but with Fournier and Grimes, Barrett and Reddish [let alone IQ toggling between playing on the ball and off the ball]...we need to develop what we have, and taken another long look in the summer of 2023, when a new group of Free Agents comes on the market, and we have a minimum of two #1 picks, and possibly four to cast about for trade partners.  I don't see much shaking free in the way of free agents.  The biggies have already been locked up.  Zion.  Nikola.  Beal.  LeBron might be on the open market, and he's only 38.  Kyrie?  FUCK KYRIE. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 07, 2022, 11:00:03 PM
Right you are, bro.  DEPTH is no concern.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 08, 2022, 10:12:53 AM
Summer league!!!!!!


Ladies and gentlemen, I give you....JEAN MONTERO (likely most talented of the 12) .


And good to see Micah Potter, he of the lesser pigment.

14.1 and 10.7 in G League wih SkyForce after being last cut by Heat in '21.


Roster and schedule (8 pm Eastern tonight):

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2022-new-york-knicks-summer-league-roster-schedule-tv-channel-live-stream-players-to-watch/


Let's roll!!!!

(Banchero Day is next Thursday though by then he likely will have been shelved)





Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 08, 2022, 10:18:56 AM
Ivey 20-6-6 fo Detroit, to where he was gifted.

Still waiting to hear the offer we turned down to move up to 4.
Title: Taj Gibson
Post by: chipstern on July 08, 2022, 06:17:51 PM
Taj has been waived.

Signing with the Wizards.

A class act.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 08, 2022, 06:38:55 PM
Taj can take KPs minutes when he goes down. Washington needs to get the eighth seed so I am good with it.

I have not heard the Burks Noel deal finalized yet. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 08, 2022, 08:44:28 PM
Brunson isn't done yet either.  Teams looking at options, though most that would end up added would be a second rounder or 2.  No other players if sign and trade done..
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 08, 2022, 10:33:37 PM
Brunson cannot happen till we have the space. Burks and Noel are the holdup.

That Hunt kid looks good. Very active.

Grimes and Sims got loose and looked good.

McBride and Keels still have work to do.

Hunt and Sims make me think we will be ok up front without Taj.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 08, 2022, 10:34:09 PM
Happy to never have to watch McClung except in summer league.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 09, 2022, 12:04:26 AM
Dequan Jefferies could also make the roster if he keeps his play up.

I would not mind it if we wound up like this

Mitch Hartenstein Sims
Randle Obi Hunt
Reddish Fournier Jefferies
RJ Grimes Rose
Brunson IQ McBride

It is a better roster than what we had when we hit the fourth seed.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 09, 2022, 01:23:18 AM
MONTERO.  JEFFRIES.  POTTER.  HUNT.

Impressive.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 09, 2022, 01:39:47 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 08, 2022, 10:34:09 PM
Happy to never have to watch McClung except in summer league.

Torched Deuce.

All.  Night.   Long.   

Mac one of the better Warriors tonight

Moody, along with Grimes, best players on the floor.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 09, 2022, 01:24:16 PM
His three point shooting saved him from an embarrassingly crap outing, which made him among the best of a fairly crappy Warriors group yesterday.

He may still be in the running for a two-way contract somewhere, but no team has felt compelled by his talent to secure his services so far.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 09, 2022, 01:49:03 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 09, 2022, 01:24:16 PM
His three point shooting saved him from an embarrassingly crap outing, which made him among the best of a fairly crappy Warriors group yesterday.

He may still be in the running for a two-way contract somewhere, but no team has felt compelled by his talent to secure his services so far.

Looked pretty good to me, Kiid's obligatory drive by pisstake on Deuce notwithstanding.  He's a gritty grinder. 
Title: Youth IS BEING Served
Post by: chipstern on July 09, 2022, 02:34:21 PM
Well, that was fun. 

Good to see the puppies playing with such defensive tenacity.  Feron Hunt had 7 steals.  Trevor Keels had 4 steals. 

McBride & Grimes ran hot and cold on their treys, but worth noting that they had 7 & 8 assists respectively.  They stayed aggressive, even when the fruit wasn't falling.  And they DEFENDED. 

FERON HUNT played like someone who is going to push RJ and Cam come training camp.  Great hops and pace.  Long and energetic and FAST. 

QUENTIN GRIMES played like someone who is going to push Evan Fournier [not to mention IQ] for floor time, and vicea versa, with 24-4-8 and two steals.  I was cheered to see his energy, his defensive focus and a commitment to being a facilitator. 

JERICHO SIMS played like someone who is going to get some of the dearly departed Taj Gibson's minutes, not to mention those of Robinson & Hartenstein.  6 X 3 = 18 fouls to give. 

Those who are farting on ROSE and Company for not reeeling in generational free agents, can kiss me where I twist and I don't mean my wrist. 

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/ (https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/)

Anyone taking note of what is happenning with the A+ Level Talents?  THEY ARE REUPPING FOR MegaBucks: Lillard, Beal, Garland, LaVine...no need to go on.   Rose & Company targeted atainable free agents, UNRESTRICTED Free Agents, nailed two who were quite dear to their clubs [Mavericks & Clippers], having made significant strides forward in 2021-2022, and reupped our own UFA, MITCHELL ROBINSON, who also made significant strides in 2021-2022, mostly in terms of conditioning and focus and durability...an offensive game would be nice, but no sense being greedy.  Rudy Gobert is not a big time offensive threat, and the T-Wolves just gave away the farm to sign him. 

Rose & Company were creative in their juggling of draft picks and 2022-2023 ending contracts, to erase the veteran over-reach/rewards for our 2020-2021 winning season. 

AND NOW, Thibs Doesn't Play Kids? 

Well, fuck me, his third year in, TT is going to war with a YOUNG TEAM, A VERY YOUNG Team, with Derrick Rose [33], Evan Fournier [29], Julius Randle [27] AND Jalen Brunson [26] as his vets, Walker, Noel, Burks and Gibson having gone bye bye.  No weeping for Kemba, but I know it hurt Thibs to say goodbye to Burks, Gibson and Noel, but all of those 2 + 1 contracts signified that these cats were PLACE HOLDERS, and we now see a changing of the guard, vis a vis Burks = Grimes, Gibson = Sims, Noel = Hartenstein. 

Waiving Taj opens up space for Sims & Toppin, and possibly for cap space to snatch up another veteran or something tasty that falls off the waiver wire, or simply to affprd our two-ways of roster space.  OR TO ENTERTAIN THAT MEGA TRADE the blogosphere longs for, though I do not see the Knicks obliging Danny Ainge with a Wolves level deal, nor do I think Ainge is all that chuffed about our talent, at least not on the level of giving us Donovan Mitchell. 

So...what have we got?

C: Robinson [24], Hartenstein [24], Sims [23]

PF: Randle [27], Toppin [24]

SF: Barrett [22], Reddish [22], Hunt [23]

SG: Fournier [29], Grimes [22], Quickley [23], Keels [18]

PG: Brunson [26], Rose [33], McBride [21]

That's FIFTEEN Right There, assuming we do not stash both of our two-ways [Hunt & Keels] in Westchester, and rope in a vet such as Carmelo, which actually might make some sense in terms of evolving the games of Barrett & Reddish, but Hunt sure looked to be making a statement last night.  YES YES, it's only summer league.  Still, besides Julius, Cam, Obi and IQ, Coach Thibs [plus Dolan & Rose] was courtside last night: think he took notice of a 6'8" UberWing with 17-3-2 and SEVEN Steals in 29 minutes?  Think 6'8" UberWing CAM REDDISH took notice?   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 09, 2022, 02:49:32 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 09, 2022, 01:24:16 PM
His three point shooting saved him from an embarrassingly crap outing, which made him among the best of a fairly crappy Warriors group yesterday.

He may still be in the running for a two-way contract somewhere, but no team has felt compelled by his talent to secure his services so far.
Had a couple of key drives and excellent court vision as well.  Deuce literally bounced back off Mac with McClung then hitting short banked runner.

Muscled.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 09, 2022, 02:51:24 PM
I like Chips depth chart.  Finally some accuracy
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 09, 2022, 02:54:24 PM
Shooting from respectable distance and from the stripe are issues for Hunt, but with everything else he brings, he may still be a net positive even at the NBA level at least in the regular season.

We will have a lot of flexibility with two open roster spots once the announced deals get finalized. Once we are sorted with Detroit, the other dominoes should fall into place.

I think most folks still expect a major trade or two in the league. That means a guy or two moved to balance salaries will get waived and become available to sign.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 09, 2022, 03:01:51 PM
Hunt is an athlete no doubt.  Was leaking out.  Can't always get away with that.

Not real sure he fits with our 15 in any way.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 09, 2022, 03:15:40 PM
Finishing, live handle, passing and defense are all strong skills. He hustles and reads the floor well. I have no problem keeping him on the two way and seeing how he develops. He is a good guy for rotation players to work against even if he never makes our rotation.

I heard Fournier has accepted and looks forward to his bench role this season. I do not know if that means Grimes or Reddish is likely to start ahead of him.
Title: Warriors Sitting Pretty
Post by: chipstern on July 09, 2022, 03:29:08 PM
Warriors took some hits in free agency. 

Gary Payton, Jr. 

That hurt. 

But lo and behold, they've got MOSES MOODY [20].

They lost Otto Porter.

That hurt.

But lo and behold, they've got JONATHAN KUMINGA [19].

They lost Nemanja Bjelica.

But lo and behold, they've got JAMES WISEMAN[20]. 

They lost Juan-Toscano Anderson.

But lo and behold, they just signed all purpose ex-Villinova shooting guard, the stalwart Donte DiVincenzo [25], who also boards and distributes.

They drafted big SF-PF Patrick Baldwin Jr [19], who fell in their laps at #28, with the Warriors having the luxury of slowly nurturing him into their system, behind the likes of Draymond Green, Andrew Wiggins, Kevin Looney and Jonathan Kuminga. 

They re-upped all purpose big Kevon Looney [26]. 

The 6'7" Andrew Wiggins [27] is in the last year of his contract at $33 million, coming off of a breakthrough year and playoff run. 

The 6'4" Jordan Poole [23] is a shooting guard who boards, defends, facilitates, and gets to the line, having converted at an astounding .925% clip [246-266]. 

I have read where the Nyets have hit the Warriors up for Andrew Wiggins, Jordan Poole, James Wiseman, Jonathan Kuminga and [AND!] draft capital in exchange for Kevin Durant. 

Dream ON, Brooklyn. 
Title: Fournier
Post by: chipstern on July 09, 2022, 04:12:24 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 09, 2022, 03:15:40 PM
Finishing, live handle, passing and defense are all strong skills. He hustles and reads the floor well. I have no problem keeping him on the two way and seeing how he develops. He is a good guy for rotation players to work against even if he never makes our rotation.

I heard Fournier has accepted and looks forward to his bench role this season. I do not know if that means Grimes or Reddish is likely to start ahead of him.

Fournier is a high character cat.  He never ducked out of the harsh glare of the spotlight when his play was so up and down the first 2/3 of the season.  He took his lumps and owned up to his faux pas when he was not delivering. 

Fournier AND Julius were both casualties of the Kemba Walker experiment, and of Rose going down. 

Julius had significant chemistry with Reggie Bullock AND Elfrid Payton, and missing both of them, while Kemba's style, irrespective of his physical handicaps, really put the kibosh on Fournier's initial fit, while RJ and Julius struggled, up and down, up and down, as Kemba's ball dominant style often took the ball out of Barrett and Randle's hands...not that Thibs' offense, as stodgy as it was early on, made the fit any better. 

Then of course, when Kemba went into exile, and ROSE in turn WENT DOWN, well, game-set-match.  Burks was a gamer, and a real pro, but he was not a primary facilitator by any stretch of the imagination, and while IQ showed a real feel for being the bell cow after the all-star break, he too struggled with his role, inconsistent minutes and a shooting slump the first 2/3 of the season, as he was seemingly betwixt and between in terms of getting into rhythm, let alone with spotty minutes...am I a faciltator or a scoring combo, and like Toppin, looking over his shoulder for the THIBS HOOK. 

I remember the Fournier of the French Olympic Team, and he was a formidable presence. 

Evan is currently at work with the French National Team, and with a transitional year behind him, I would expect him to return to the 2022-23 Knicks with his head on straight, a clearer idea of his role, and some fire in his belly, whether or not he is a sixth man or on the front line...where Grimes trumps him is on defense, and Thibs is going to want a strong defensive presence next to Brunson. 

NOT MANY PLAYERS WANT TO BE KNICKS, or play in the media/arena cauldron that is NY.  But Fournier did, Fournier DOES.

Given Brunson's court presence and leadership, I would expect that Fournier, Barrett and Randle, with more defined roles, and more scaled back responsibilities as facilitators, to step up, coming out of the gate more focused and aggressive, as they develop a more tangible, attainable chemistry. 

I would also expect Rose, a healthy, motivated [$14 million motivated in the second year of his own 2+ 1 contract] Rose, to exert a significant influence on Brunson, Quickley and McBride, let alone on a second unit, which as per Facil, could be comprised of Rose/Quickley, Fournier/Quickley, Reddish, Toppin and Hartenstein.  I would expect the Knicks to manage Rose's minutes more carefully, while gradually down-shifting his role, to bring along IQ both on and off the ball. 

Anyway, the East is going to be rough as a motherfucker. 

The first tier of  Philly, Milwaukee, Boston, Miami have all gotten better.  God knows how the Nyets are going to shake out, but if Durant, Irving and Simmons are all out there on opening night, they are surely in the top tier mix. 

Atlanta, Chicago and Toronto have excellent talent and chemistry in the second tier. 

THAT MAKES EIGHT TEAMS IN OUR WAY RIGHT THERE. 

The Knicks, Wizards and Hornets will be nipping at the Second Tier's heels, while we don't want to sleep on Orlando, Detroit and Indiana, who have all added significant talent. 

So, while I am not unduly given to POSITIVE PUSSYHOOD, we have a deep, young team, with a year of collective experience and bonding through hardship under their belt, young talent on the rise with a pair of #1 picks in the summer of 2023, possibly even 3 or 4. 

So we are poised to grow, poised to make moves. 

We set realistic targets in the 2022-2023 off season, attained them, and look to make progress. 

How much progress? 

Well, let's see if Brunson-Barrett-Randle comprise a BIG THREE or __________________. 

Stay tuned. 
Title: Cam On The Half Shell
Post by: chipstern on July 09, 2022, 06:51:31 PM
According to IAN BEGLEY, the Knicks and Heat have had conversations about Cam Reddish. 

Fuck me. 

Reddish would blossom in that culture. 

What is Thibs thinking?  Why does he have such a hard on for Reddish? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 09, 2022, 09:20:16 PM
When I hear the Knicks are in talks, I think of World Wide Wes not Thibs. I do not see the Heat having anything in the Cam salary range we would want.

Detroit needs to get off its ass and file some paperwork already.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 09, 2022, 09:21:43 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 09, 2022, 03:15:40 PM
Finishing, live handle, passing and defense are all strong skills. He hustles and reads the floor well. I have no problem keeping him on the two way and seeing how he develops. He is a good guy for rotation players to work against even if he never makes our rotation.

I heard Fournier has accepted and looks forward to his bench role this season. I do not know if that means Grimes or Reddish is likely to start ahead of him.

Yeah

Nice try.
Title: Re: Warriors Sitting Pretty
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 09, 2022, 09:27:15 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 09, 2022, 03:29:08 PM
Warriors took some hits in free agency. 

Gary Payton, Jr. 

That hurt. 

But lo and behold, they've got MOSES MOODY [20].

They lost Otto Porter.

That hurt.

But lo and behold, they've got JONATHAN KUMINGA [19].

They lost Nemanja Bjelica.

But lo and behold, they've got JAMES WISEMAN[20]. 

They lost Juan-Toscano Anderson.

But lo and behold, they just signed all purpose ex-Villinova shooting guard, the stalwart Donte DiVincenzo [25], who also boards and distributes.

They drafted big SF-PF Patrick Baldwin Jr [19], who fell in their laps at #28, with the Warriors having the luxury of slowly nurturing him into their system, behind the likes of Draymond Green, Andrew Wiggins, Kevin Looney and Jonathan Kuminga. 

They re-upped all purpose big Kevon Looney [26]. 

The 6'7" Andrew Wiggins [27] is in the last year of his contract at $33 million, coming off of a breakthrough year and playoff run. 

The 6'4" Jordan Poole [23] is a shooting guard who boards, defends, facilitates, and gets to the line, having converted at an astounding .925% clip [246-266]. 

I have read where the Nyets have hit the Warriors up for Andrew Wiggins, Jordan Poole, James Wiseman, Jonathan Kuminga and [AND!] draft capital in exchange for Kevin Durant. 

Dream ON, Brooklyn.

The teams are requesting offers.

Nets just stating the cost.  Not really a negotiation.

Someone will say yes or Nets will be quite good.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 09, 2022, 09:28:21 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 09, 2022, 09:20:16 PM
When I hear the Knicks are in talks, I think of World Wide Wes not Thibs. I do not see the Heat having anything in the Cam salary range we would want.

Detroit needs to get off its ass and file some paperwork already.

Reddish for Herro?

Fournier & Reddish for Duncan Robinson?

Meh

Title: Re: Warriors Sitting Pretty
Post by: chipstern on July 09, 2022, 09:30:14 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 09, 2022, 09:27:15 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 09, 2022, 03:29:08 PM
Warriors took some hits in free agency. 

Gary Payton, Jr. 

That hurt. 

But lo and behold, they've got MOSES MOODY [20].

They lost Otto Porter.

That hurt.

But lo and behold, they've got JONATHAN KUMINGA [19].

They lost Nemanja Bjelica.

But lo and behold, they've got JAMES WISEMAN[20]. 

They lost Juan-Toscano Anderson.

But lo and behold, they just signed all purpose ex-Villinova shooting guard, the stalwart Donte DiVincenzo [25], who also boards and distributes.

They drafted big SF-PF Patrick Baldwin Jr [19], who fell in their laps at #28, with the Warriors having the luxury of slowly nurturing him into their system, behind the likes of Draymond Green, Andrew Wiggins, Kevin Looney and Jonathan Kuminga. 

They re-upped all purpose big Kevon Looney [26]. 

The 6'7" Andrew Wiggins [27] is in the last year of his contract at $33 million, coming off of a breakthrough year and playoff run. 

The 6'4" Jordan Poole [23] is a shooting guard who boards, defends, facilitates, and gets to the line, having converted at an astounding .925% clip [246-266]. 

I have read where the Nyets have hit the Warriors up for Andrew Wiggins, Jordan Poole, James Wiseman, Jonathan Kuminga and [AND!] draft capital in exchange for Kevin Durant. 

Dream ON, Brooklyn.

The teams are requesting offers.

Nets just stating the cost.  Not really a negotiation.

Someone will say yes or Nets will be quite good.

Nyets are not obliged to accede to KD's demands. 

He's a pro.  With a four year contract. 

Maybe the Nyets do what Daryl Morey did with Simmons, which was just to wait him out. 

KD No Play?

No Get Paid. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 09, 2022, 09:30:28 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 09, 2022, 09:20:16 PM
When I hear the Knicks are in talks, I think of World Wide Wes not Thibs. I do not see the Heat having anything in the Cam salary range we would want.

Detroit needs to get off its ass and file some paperwork already.

Detroit in on....


MILES

BRIDGES
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on July 09, 2022, 09:54:03 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 09, 2022, 03:15:40 PM
Finishing, live handle, passing and defense are all strong skills. He hustles and reads the floor well. I have no problem keeping him on the two way and seeing how he develops. He is a good guy for rotation players to work against even if he never makes our rotation.

I heard Fournier has accepted and looks forward to his bench role this season. I do not know if that means Grimes or Reddish is likely to start ahead of him.

I've definitely been hoping Grimes would make the leap and be a starter this year. But figured it would come later than sooner.

What do you mean you've heard this? From whom?
Title: NOT
Post by: chipstern on July 09, 2022, 10:26:02 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 09, 2022, 09:30:28 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 09, 2022, 09:20:16 PM
When I hear the Knicks are in talks, I think of World Wide Wes not Thibs. I do not see the Heat having anything in the Cam salary range we would want.

Detroit needs to get off its ass and file some paperwork already.

Detroit in on....


MILES

BRIDGES

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ih3XNrrV4dI)

Not any more it would seem.  Bridges really queered his career. 
Title: Poop
Post by: chipstern on July 09, 2022, 10:28:28 PM
Quote from: elephant on July 09, 2022, 09:54:03 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 09, 2022, 03:15:40 PM
Finishing, live handle, passing and defense are all strong skills. He hustles and reads the floor well. I have no problem keeping him on the two way and seeing how he develops. He is a good guy for rotation players to work against even if he never makes our rotation.

I heard Fournier has accepted and looks forward to his bench role this season. I do not know if that means Grimes or Reddish is likely to start ahead of him.

I've definitely been hoping Grimes would make the leap and be a starter this year. But figured it would come later than sooner.

What do you mean you've heard this? From whom?

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK2ig0FILW8)

For what it's worth...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 09, 2022, 11:31:30 PM
It may be wishful thinking.

This guy tries to get into why it makes sense

http://youtu.be/dK2ig0FILW8 (http://youtu.be/dK2ig0FILW8)

Grimes gives us all the offensive production plus defense, passing, and rebounding.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 09, 2022, 11:41:18 PM
Summer Rockets beat the summer Thunder. Smith stops Giddy at the buzzer. I did not make the trip this year because it is beautiful here and hot as fuck in Vegas and I have too much to do anyway.
Title: Re: Cam On The Half Shell
Post by: carlos123 on July 09, 2022, 11:49:16 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 09, 2022, 06:51:31 PM

What is Thibs thinking?  Why does he have such a hard on for Reddish?

Maybe it turns out TT wanted to keep KK?
Title: Re: NOT
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 10, 2022, 10:42:14 AM
Quote from: chipstern on July 09, 2022, 10:26:02 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 09, 2022, 09:30:28 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 09, 2022, 09:20:16 PM
When I hear the Knicks are in talks, I think of World Wide Wes not Thibs. I do not see the Heat having anything in the Cam salary range we would want.

Detroit needs to get off its ass and file some paperwork already.

Detroit in on....


MILES

BRIDGES

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ih3XNrrV4dI)

Not any more it would seem.  Bridges really queered his career.

yep, my bad - headline was old and I didnt have time to check - thanks
Title: Monday? Monday?
Post by: chipstern on July 10, 2022, 01:12:03 PM
Marc Stein signals that Monday is likely the earliest the Knicks formally sign Jalen Brunson. 

Outright, with cap space, no sign and trades. 
Title: Quentin
Post by: chipstern on July 10, 2022, 01:59:19 PM
Spent his second summer in a row working with mentor big brother Penny Hardaway, with an eye towards becoming a better point guard. 

"Because that's what I was in High School."

Had 8 assists on opening night of summer league. 

So far

So GOOD
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 10, 2022, 02:13:41 PM
It looks like we have a guard rotation that knows what it is doing, can play with force, and hold up physically.

It also looks like Jules has slimmed down. Could this presage Jules and Obi lineups at PF and SF with Hartenstein possibly as a huge five out frontcourt?

I just hope we are good. Once we extend RJ, we will be expensive even in this league.
Title: Depolying Our Depth [A Positive Pussy's Perspective]
Post by: chipstern on July 10, 2022, 02:52:25 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 10, 2022, 02:13:41 PM
It looks like we have a guard rotation that knows what it is doing, can play with force, and hold up physically.

It also looks like Jules has slimmed down. Could this presage Jules and Obi lineups at PF and SF with Hartenstein possibly as a huge five out frontcourt?

I just hope we are good. Once we extend RJ, we will be expensive even in this league.

I'm with you.  And you might add, capable of facilitating, as are RJ, Fournier and IQ.  INTERESTING.  Hartenstein is a very adept facilitator, and even being a moody, talk to himself, take a step back motherfucker last season, Julius was still good for 20-10-5 a night.  Less pounding, more passing, quicker more decisive decisions, IT IS NOT BEYOND THE REALM OF POSSIBILITY.  Ditto RJ.

Thibs DID ACTUALLY try out Julius and Obi a few times in the last stanzas of 2021-22. 

The notion that Julius and Obi can't play together or play small ball 5, is suspect. 

Yes, Thibs likes big rim protectors, and injuries notwithstansing, we are pretty fucking deep at the 5. 

Given the surfeit of young, athletic players, and a lack of vets, creative ways of coming up with playing time for the likes of Obi and IQ and Cam need to be explored. 

Situational matchups, let alone finding playing time after Obi & IQ's eye opening final performances.  Cam as also coming on strong when he got hurt. 

Yes Yes, the defensive limitations of Julius and Obi. 

Still...

No reason Julius cannot play 5-4 with Obi.  Or vicea versa.  I mean, they are both Taj Gibson's size, and while obviously a more experienced players, but dig. 

Jericho [6'10" 245]
Taj [6'9", 235]
Obi [6'9", 220]
Julius [6'8" 250]
Cam [6'8" 218] 

Wayne Embry was 6'8" 240
Zelmo Beaty was 6'9" 225
Wes Unseld was 6'7" 245
Dave Cowens was 6'9" 230
Maurice Lucas [6'9" 215]
Draymond Green IS 6'6" 230, and often played/guarded the 5 spot. 

As for Obi at the 3, he might indeed be challenged to guard some small forwards, but that's a two way street, and they have to D up on him as well. 

Cam has the size and wingspan and athleticms not only to play SF but to double at PF and SG. 

Supect we will see Hartenstein get some minutes at the stretch 4, though those are Obi's minutes to win. 

We are deep, Deep, DEEP. 

DEEP enough, in fact, that when the Knicks waived TAJ, they were hoping/planning to bring him back on the vet's minimum, but Gibson thought he could get more minutes playing for the Wizards.  Kristaps is an IR in waiting, but Wiz just signed ex-Dukie/Hornets Vernon Carey [6'9", 270], and Daniel Gafford [6'9" 234, and who was a shot blocking machine in games against the Knicks].   

C: Robinson [24], Hartenstein [24], Sims [23]

PF: Randle [27], Toppin [24]

SF: Barrett [22], Reddish [22], Hunt [23]

SG: Fournier [29], Grimes [22], Quickley [23], Keels [18]

PG: Brunson [26], Rose [33], McBride [21]


The more I look at this roster, the more I like us going in to 2022-23. 

We all know that THIBS is STUBBORN. 

But TT ain't stupid. Rose, Fournier, Randle and Brunson are our vets.  We have a cornocopia of young talent, with a year or two or three behind them, many capable of playing multiple positions, many capable of being serious defenders...

We have an interesting narrative going forward.   As you suggested, Julius would appear to be in incredible condition, and you've got to figure he wants to wash away the aroma of last season, and Thibs would seem to have the complementary pieces to help him get to his next level of maturity and growth, which as per RJ and Quentin and Deuce and Obi, irrespective of their minutes, is about being a defensive BEAST, and maxing out their FACILITATING skills. 

LET THE COMPETITION BEGIN
Title: Summer League
Post by: chipstern on July 10, 2022, 05:35:19 PM
DEFENSE
Title: Damn
Post by: chipstern on July 10, 2022, 06:08:39 PM
Knicks playing with swagger.

Sims just made a spin and bounce move in the post that took my breath away.

McBride and Grimes decisive.  Quentin making a statement, with  18 .n the first half and a behind the back dish to Sims in the lane for a flush..

Peele has the makings of a tuff defender, Moreno and Jeffries and Hunt showing skill and tenacity, and whoever that white center is, he's plying tuff and smart.

Gonna be a competitive training camp
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 10, 2022, 06:37:35 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 09, 2022, 09:28:21 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 09, 2022, 09:20:16 PM
When I hear the Knicks are in talks, I think of World Wide Wes not Thibs. I do not see the Heat having anything in the Cam salary range we would want.

Detroit needs to get off its ass and file some paperwork already.

Reddish for Herro?

Fournier & Reddish for Duncan Robinson?

Meh

Fournier is better than D Rob.  No?
Title: Re: Depolying Our Depth [A Positive Pussy's Perspective]
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 10, 2022, 06:39:38 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 10, 2022, 02:52:25 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 10, 2022, 02:13:41 PM
It looks like we have a guard rotation that knows what it is doing, can play with force, and hold up physically.

It also looks like Jules has slimmed down. Could this presage Jules and Obi lineups at PF and SF with Hartenstein possibly as a huge five out frontcourt?

I just hope we are good. Once we extend RJ, we will be expensive even in this league.

I'm with you.  And you might add, capable of facilitating, as are RJ, Fournier and IQ.  INTERESTING.  Hartenstein is a very adept facilitator, and even being a moody, talk to himself, take a step back motherfucker last season, Julius was still good for 20-10-5 a night.  Less pounding, more passing, quicker more decisive decisions, IT IS NOT BEYOND THE REALM OF POSSIBILITY.  Ditto RJ.

Thibs DID ACTUALLY try out Julius and Obi a few times in the last stanzas of 2021-22. 

The notion that Julius and Obi can't play together or play small ball 5, is suspect. 

Yes, Thibs likes big rim protectors, and injuries notwithstansing, we are pretty fucking deep at the 5. 

Given the surfeit of young, athletic players, and a lack of vets, creative ways of coming up with playing time for the likes of Obi and IQ and Cam need to be explored. 

Situational matchups, let alone finding playing time after Obi & IQ's eye opening final performances.  Cam as also coming on strong when he got hurt. 

Yes Yes, the defensive limitations of Julius and Obi. 

Still...

No reason Julius cannot play 5-4 with Obi.  Or vicea versa.  I mean, they are both Taj Gibson's size, and while obviously a more experienced players, but dig. 

Jericho [6'10" 245]
Taj [6'9", 235]
Obi [6'9", 220]
Julius [6'8" 250]
Cam [6'8" 218] 

Wayne Embry was 6'8" 240
Zelmo Beaty was 6'9" 225
Wes Unseld was 6'7" 245
Dave Cowens was 6'9" 230
Maurice Lucas [6'9" 215]
Draymond Green IS 6'6" 230, and often played/guarded the 5 spot. 

As for Obi at the 3, he might indeed be challenged to guard some small forwards, but that's a two way street, and they have to D up on him as well. 

Cam has the size and wingspan and athleticms not only to play SF but to double at PF and SG. 

Supect we will see Hartenstein get some minutes at the stretch 4, though those are Obi's minutes to win. 

We are deep, Deep, DEEP. 

DEEP enough, in fact, that when the Knicks waived TAJ, they were hoping/planning to bring him back on the vet's minimum, but Gibson thought he could get more minutes playing for the Wizards.  Kristaps is an IR in waiting, but Wiz just signed ex-Dukie/Hornets Vernon Carey [6'9", 270], and Daniel Gafford [6'9" 234, and who was a shot blocking machine in games against the Knicks].   

C: Robinson [24], Hartenstein [24], Sims [23]

PF: Randle [27], Toppin [24]

SF: Barrett [22], Reddish [22], Hunt [23]

SG: Fournier [29], Grimes [22], Quickley [23], Keels [18]

PG: Brunson [26], Rose [33], McBride [21]


The more I look at this roster, the more I like us going in to 2022-23. 

We all know that THIBS is STUBBORN. 

But TT ain't stupid. Rose, Fournier, Randle and Brunson are our vets.  We have a cornocopia of young talent, with a year or two or three behind them, many capable of playing multiple positions, many capable of being serious defenders...

We have an interesting narrative going forward.   As you suggested, Julius would appear to be in incredible condition, and you've got to figure he wants to wash away the aroma of last season, and Thibs would seem to have the complementary pieces to help him get to his next level of maturity and growth, which as per RJ and Quentin and Deuce and Obi, irrespective of their minutes, is about being a defensive BEAST, and maxing out their FACILITATING skills. 

LET THE COMPETITION BEGIN

Nobody cares about ages.  Its contracts that matter.  If anything youth is a detriment.
Title: Correction
Post by: carlos123 on July 10, 2022, 09:14:06 PM
Quote from: chamAAcocartero8 on July 10, 2022, 06:39:38 PM

Nobody cares ChamAAco does not care about ages.  Its contracts that matter to ChamAAco.  If anything youth is a detriment in ChamAAcos view.

Ok, now it is accurate.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 10, 2022, 09:39:44 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 10, 2022, 06:37:35 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 09, 2022, 09:28:21 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 09, 2022, 09:20:16 PM
When I hear the Knicks are in talks, I think of World Wide Wes not Thibs. I do not see the Heat having anything in the Cam salary range we would want.

Detroit needs to get off its ass and file some paperwork already.

Reddish for Herro?

Fournier & Reddish for Duncan Robinson?

Meh

Fournier is better than D Rob.  No?

Of the three, Cam helps us the most.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 11, 2022, 01:43:36 AM
http://hoopswire.com/2022-nba-free-agents/ (http://hoopswire.com/2022-nba-free-agents/)

I do not know how frequently this is updated, but they seem to be whittling down the list to those still available.

Looking at it, I do not see guys I would want filling out this roster ahead of Hunt and Jefferies. They get what we do, fit right in, and create energy plays. They will push anyone and everyone in practice. They are hungry. These are the exact qualities you want in your guys at the end of the bench.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 11, 2022, 09:15:53 AM
http://theknickswall.com/making-the-case-for-feron-hunt/ (http://theknickswall.com/making-the-case-for-feron-hunt/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 11, 2022, 10:33:26 AM
Not that teams sign free agents in an effort to make a splash. They do so in hopes that theyll improve, become a more complete version of themselves, or elevate. And while Brunson fits the first two requirements, his addition along with the signings of Isaiah Hartenstein and Mitchell Robinson doesnt exactly elevate the Knicks much beyond where they were last season. The chances that theyll be a better team, perhaps a playoff team in the Eastern Conference, are higher than they were last season. But as the conference grows more competitive by the season, the Knicks feel like theyre treading water. It may not be a recipe for moving backward, but its certainly not one that prioritizes moving forward.

This is rubbish.

https://theknickswall.com/knicks-free-agency-was-closer-belly-flop-than-splash/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 11, 2022, 01:41:25 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 11, 2022, 10:33:26 AM
Not that teams sign free agents in an effort to make a splash. They do so in hopes that theyll improve, become a more complete version of themselves, or elevate. And while Brunson fits the first two requirements, his addition along with the signings of Isaiah Hartenstein and Mitchell Robinson doesnt exactly elevate the Knicks much beyond where they were last season. The chances that theyll be a better team, perhaps a playoff team in the Eastern Conference, are higher than they were last season. But as the conference grows more competitive by the season, the Knicks feel like theyre treading water. It may not be a recipe for moving backward, but its certainly not one that prioritizes moving forward.

This is rubbish.

https://theknickswall.com/knicks-free-agency-was-closer-belly-flop-than-splash/

It is INDEED rubbish.

PS: I left Cleveland out of my Top 8 or so in the East.  Miss TAKE oversight.  They are really on the rise
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on July 11, 2022, 01:59:09 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 11, 2022, 10:33:26 AM
Not that teams sign free agents in an effort to make a splash. They do so in hopes that theyll improve, become a more complete version of themselves, or elevate. And while Brunson fits the first two requirements, his addition along with the signings of Isaiah Hartenstein and Mitchell Robinson doesnt exactly elevate the Knicks much beyond where they were last season. The chances that theyll be a better team, perhaps a playoff team in the Eastern Conference, are higher than they were last season. But as the conference grows more competitive by the season, the Knicks feel like theyre treading water. It may not be a recipe for moving backward, but its certainly not one that prioritizes moving forward.

This is rubbish.

https://theknickswall.com/knicks-free-agency-was-closer-belly-flop-than-splash/

Totally agree. I think the moves have been unusually deft.

I reckon we're going to be much stronger.

It's a question of team, the harmony of elements. My concern remains with Thibs and Randall. The latter is an exceptional talent...but the coach needs to put him in a position/system to win. Julius became a head case last year, and yeah, some of the responsibility for that falls on Thibs.   

It's not just players that have to continually improve. Coaches too.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 11, 2022, 02:50:16 PM
We did it! The Burks and Noel trade to Detroit is complete.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 11, 2022, 03:56:38 PM
Mac attack


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeOiCHmCh0U
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 11, 2022, 05:01:00 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 11, 2022, 03:56:38 PM
Mac attack


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeOiCHmCh0U

He's an intense MF.

Like him

A beige McBride
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 11, 2022, 05:58:33 PM
Undrafted

Hard to imagine.
Title: Some Observations [Knicks v Blazers]
Post by: chipstern on July 12, 2022, 01:58:49 PM
Jericho Sims

Uber athletic, with otherworldly bounce.  He competes, and has clearly worked on his body as well.  In terms of his game, he appears to have concentrated on his faciltating skils [4 assists last night], advancing the ball up court to initiate the offense, even breaking out some promising offensive moves in the paint.  He was only Knick last night with a + number.  He is a presence in the paint defensively, and had 11 rebounds. 

All traits of his athleticism and big boy body. 

Free throw shooting is not a subset of athleticism.  His FT shooting is, if possible, even worse than Mitchell's.  Last season he got to the line 29 times, and only converted 12 [.414%]. 

Against the Warriors, he was 2-3; the Bulls, 1-5.  Last night against the Blazers, 0-3.  His minutes going forward in 2022-23 will be impacted as much by what he does well, as what he does poorly.  His progress has been impressive, and clearly he is a worker bee.  This will be an interesting, ongoing narrative.

Grimes needs to work on his FT shooting as well.  As much as he has worked on his game in terms of getting to the rack, this is part and parcel of being a starter, and an area wree Fournier trumps him, though Grimes' D is his hold card. 

Thibs' Fingerprints

Well, for the most part, our team and individual defense in the three summer league games has been tenacious and focused.  We were dominating as such against the Blazers in the first quarter last night. 

However, the Blazers kept chipping away, and as the game progressed, displayed more energy and coherence and efficiency, while   

THIS PARTICULAR STAT, though, Is CONCERNING. 

Blazers were 30-62 from the floor, and converted 10-24 3-pointers, while exerting dominance on    the boards, 49-30, to particular effect in the fourth quarter when they put us away. 

Knicks were 29-76 from the floor, while converting only 11-41 3-pointers. 

I'm a big McBride booster, and his defensive inteisty and focus is stellar.  He is more decisive on offense, but he has yet to prove conclusively that he can break down the D and get to the rack consistently, which is an area of strength for both Brunson AND Rose, and an area where IQ has made progress. 

But while Deuce and Grimes and this new kid Keels clearly have 3-point range, that 2021-22 Thibs signature offense of falling back on threes, Threes, and MORE THREES is disquieting. 

Having Brunson and a healthy Rose penetrating offers the promise of opening up cutting lanes for the likes of Barrett and Randle, Fournier and Grimes, Reddish and Quickley, Toppin and Hartenstein. 

IT IS AN ESSENTIAL ELEMENT OF OUR EVOLTUION AS A TEAM. 

Watching the Warriors kids last Friday night, they clearly reflected Steve Kerr's signature offensive sets, which evince lots of motion and cutters, lost of cutting. 

This default fall back on the ball moving around the horn, and hoisting threes, is not encouraging.  We have too much athleticism to not move on from this.  OF COURSE, a three point threat is a big part of the modern NBA offense, but seeing a dimnant physical specimen such as Julius Randle camped out 25 feet from the hoop seems to not address his strengths...

ANYWAY...

Having said all that, an identifiable defensive culture appears to be evolving apace, while our offense is still hit or miss, depending on whether or not the fruit is falling. 
Title: Warriors Sitting Pretty...WHY FUCK WITH IT
Post by: chipstern on July 12, 2022, 02:35:12 PM
NOTHING appears to be occuring on the Durant Trade Front, and Kevin's ennuir appears [APPEARS] to be connected to Kyrie's ongoing shit storm, and trade requests and big bluff that he might not pick up his option and sign with the Lakers for minimal vets money. 

The package Danny Ainge leveraged from the Wolves for Rudy Gobert completely changed EVERYTHING in terms of top tier movement, and clearly, Sean Marks has dug in his heels with both Kyrie and Kevin, and, stay tuned, but that as we speak, he is taking more of a Daryl Morey position with both of these motherfuckers, where he is just going to wait them out, refer them to their contractural obligations, and if no play, no pay.   

Hey, Irving and Durant are modern independent business entities, and not unlike owners, they have every right to optimize their situation, their brand. 

Still, the idea that the Nyets are somehow obligated to acceed to their every whim, has been thoroughly discredited.  There is not much the Nyets have failed to oblige K & D, from firing Kenny Atkinson, to trading for Harden, to allowing Irving to simply take a two week off for no good reason so he could party in midseason, to paying KD what, like $35-40 million for him to sit out and rehab for an entire season and a good part of another, to allowing Kyrie to be a part time player during the pandemic. 

The Warriors have a core of championship vets in Curry [34], Thompson [32] and Green [32], filling out their starting five with young vets Andrew Wiggins [27] and Kevon Looney [26].   

And during the period the Warriors waited out significant rehab time for Thompson and Curry and to a lesser degree, Green, they remained patient, and did not sunder their future in the name of quick fixes. 

Having watched James Wiseman's stunning return the other night, and taken notice of his level of skill and size, the Warriors have demnonstrated without question--and they have the rings to prove it--that they have a plan and a proven culture, and the likelihood that they would package ANDREW WIGGINS and some combination of JORDAN POOLE, MOSES MOODY, JONATHAN KUMINGA, JAMES WISEMAN and [AND] Draft Capital for the privilege of bringing back a 34 year old martinet who, while unquestionably one of the all time greats, bailed on the Warriors in 2019, after being an honored part of a starting five which reached the NBA FINALS in all three of his seasons with the team, decisively winning championships in the first two of those seasons. 

Even seeing this raised as a possibility makes me sick to my stomach.

And I may be wrong, and it wouldn't be the last time, but I think it is dawning on Kevin Durant that he has no fucking leverage. 

He wants to play for Phoenix?  Miami? 

Good luck. 

Phoenix ain't parting with Devin Booker.  Miami ain't parting with Butler or Bam. 

Toronto has been floated, but there is no way they are parting with Scottie Barnes. 

It goes on and on and on...

Maybe Kevin and Kyrie just suck it up and get down for 2022-23 with Ben Simmons and committ to making a playoff run.  This whole superstar hissy fit is a farce.  Kevin and Kyrie ain't going anywhere.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 12, 2022, 03:47:37 PM
Joes Tsai wants them gone

Staring match with Pelinka over Kyrie

Sifting through a SLEW  of good offers for Kevin.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 12, 2022, 04:37:06 PM
I would like to see offers and sources before characterizing the slew.

I am rooting for the nets to find no takers for either guy forcing them to find their nuts and punish the entire league team by team. This either ends with them getting rings or blowing up spectacularly, either way it is seat filling theater. Zeke would be killing himself for letting Dale and Thomas go under.

As for the Knicks, it would be crazy to move Cam now. He is cheap, clearly functional and potentially very good. You can offer him a haircut deal before the season starts when we lock up Barrett. He can take it and be secure and a value piece for us, or he can bet on himself to put in the kind of season that improves his bargaining position at the end of the year so we get a look at contract year Cam on the cheaps. Holding him is a win, or the price to let him go should at least be set high.

I know we all have hypothetical preferred pecking orders, but as always I hope as much as possible that Thibs sets bars, watches, and elevates guys who play great and pick up their teammates on both ends.

I expect one of the ways Sims can earn minutes is face guarding guys like GA, etc., unless Hartenstein is even better at it than Sims is.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 12, 2022, 04:39:24 PM
Dice needs to use RJ putting his thumb on the scale with his all consuming Knicks hate as both a life lesson and as motivation for the rest of summer league.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 12, 2022, 07:32:57 PM
We have signed Brunson. We have an exception available for a smallish contract add. Let us see how it goes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 12, 2022, 07:42:40 PM
We needed a deal in addition to the free agent signings, especially if not drafting a talent.  Now we have Brunson and IH, but dealt out of our pick and....yes, you aare right - we'll see

Expected more.  Hope for the best, trusting management.  Just Brunson, Hartenstein and Keels to acclimate into Thibs system.  Maybe this is the thinking.  But could have been Griffin.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 13, 2022, 02:47:17 AM
If you are going to cry over spilled milk, the one to regret passing on is Eason, followed closely by Williams in OKC.

Hunt makes me think we will be alright without the former. If Brunson lives up to his contract, it will have been a worthwhile sacrifice.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 13, 2022, 10:59:24 AM
Is there truth to the statement that we couldnt have inked both Hartenstein and Brunson had we drafted Griffn or one of the others? 

 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on July 13, 2022, 12:26:52 PM
Talk of a Donovan Mitchell trade has resurfaced.

I am in. Have been for a while.

Trading off a slew of draft picks, along with Obi, IQ, Grimes and whatnot. There's no way the Knicks don't take that.

But if Jazz demand RJ?

I know what Chip thinks about that!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 13, 2022, 01:30:26 PM
EASON

https://www.chron.com/sports/rockets/article/Houston-Rockets-Tari-Eason-Summer-League-Ferrari-17299666.php

Good start.  But keeping jets cool on the kid.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 13, 2022, 01:32:40 PM
Quote from: elephant on July 13, 2022, 12:26:52 PM
Talk of a Donovan Mitchell trade has resurfaced.

I am in. Have been for a while.

Trading off a slew of draft picks, along with Obi, IQ, Grimes and whatnot. There's no way the Knicks don't take that.

But if Jazz demand RJ?

I know what Chip thinks about that!

I am not looking to deal Grimes (PG possibilities surfacing) or Toppin right now.  And Barrett plays his spot.

Might be better dealing RJ with Quickley
Title: Damn Right
Post by: chipstern on July 13, 2022, 01:33:02 PM
Quote from: elephant on July 13, 2022, 12:26:52 PM
Talk of a Donovan Mitchell trade has resurfaced.

I am in. Have been for a while.

Trading off a slew of draft picks, along with Obi, IQ, Grimes and whatnot. There's no way the Knicks don't take that.

But if Jazz demand RJ?

I know what Chip thinks about that!

Hard to argue with Donovan's stat line.  Dynamic two-way combo guard, decent 3 point shooter, excellent free throw shooter who gets to the line with frequency, boards, distributes, was basically 26-4-5 with 1.5 steals a game last season. 

A real no brainer, eh? 

But I am a big fan or RJ, he IS a Knick, wants to be a Knick, has improved every season.  Just turned 22.  DM is going to be 26, like Jalen.  Is also 6'1" like Jalen. 

Still, there is something to be said for growing your own. 

All the arguments say yes. 

I SAY NO. 

But I have no input in the matter.  Save that it distresses me to see us gut our team and give Utah three starters and multiple #1 picks.  RJ is going to get nothing but better, a two way wing with size. 

THE ETERNAL PURSUIT OF THE SHINY OBJECT. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 13, 2022, 01:41:10 PM
How much do you pay Barrett?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 13, 2022, 01:46:53 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 13, 2022, 01:41:10 PM
How much do you pay Barrett?

Julius Money. 

20-25 range. 
Title: growing your own
Post by: carlos123 on July 13, 2022, 01:47:40 PM
Quote from: Chip on July 13, 2022, 01:33:02 PM
Quote from: elephant on July 13, 2022, 12:26:52 PM
Talk of a Donovan Mitchell trade has resurfaced.

I am in. Have been for a while.

Trading off a slew of draft picks, along with Obi, IQ, Grimes and whatnot. There's no way the Knicks don't take that.

But if Jazz demand RJ?

I know what Chip thinks about that!

Hard to argue with Donovan's stat line.  Dynamic two-way combo guard, decent 3 point shooter, excellent free throw shooter who gets to the line with frequency, boards, distributes, was basically 26-4-5 with 1.5 steals a game last season. 

A real no brainer, eh? 

But I am a big fan or RJ, he IS a Knick, wants to be a Knick, has improved every season.  Just turned 22.  DM is going to be 26, like Jalen.  Is also 6'1" like Jalen. 

Still, there is something to be said for growing your own. 

All the arguments say yes. 

I SAY NO. 

But I have no input in the matter.  Save that it distresses me to see us gut our team and give Utah three starters and multiple #1 picks.  RJ is going to get nothing but better, a two way wing with size. 

THE ETERNAL PURSUIT OF THE SHINY OBJECT.

DITTO.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 13, 2022, 01:48:50 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 13, 2022, 01:30:26 PM
EASON

https://www.chron.com/sports/rockets/article/Houston-Rockets-Tari-Eason-Summer-League-Ferrari-17299666.php

Good start.  But keeping jets cool on the kid.

Right. You think he has buoyancy issues. Of course you are. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 13, 2022, 01:53:41 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 13, 2022, 01:46:53 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 13, 2022, 01:41:10 PM
How much do you pay Barrett?

Julius Money. 

20-25 range.

Yeah, I figured.  Not sure he takes thaat.

Looking like Barrett will go to restricted free agency after this season.

https://www.amny.com/sports/knicks-rj-barrett-max-contract-extension-nyk/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 13, 2022, 01:55:50 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 13, 2022, 01:48:50 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 13, 2022, 01:30:26 PM
EASON

https://www.chron.com/sports/rockets/article/Houston-Rockets-Tari-Eason-Summer-League-Ferrari-17299666.php

Good start.  But keeping jets cool on the kid.

Right. You think he has buoyancy issues. Of course you are.

Wouldnt matter if he did

But better than your diarrhea of the mouth.
Title: Tell You What
Post by: chipstern on July 13, 2022, 01:57:40 PM
If the Jazz are intrested in a mess of # 1 draft picks, the Knicks can accomodate them, a la Minny, with some contracts tossed inm, such as Fournier and Rose. 

If they are interested in RJ?

NOT. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 13, 2022, 01:58:07 PM
Spyda auto corrects to spuds. I am taking that as a sign. He can decline his option in 2025 and talk to us then.

For Fournier, Rose and 3 first rounders I would consider it, but no more.

Give RJ his full bag now. Just get it out of the way.

Both the Robinson and Brunson contracts are declining deals.

Nice work so far by the FO.
Title: PRAISE THE LORD
Post by: chipstern on July 13, 2022, 02:02:23 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 13, 2022, 01:58:07 PM
Spyda auto corrects to spuds. I am taking that as a sign. He can decline his option in 2025 and talk to us then.

For Fournier, Rose and 3 first rounders I would consider it, but no more.

Give RJ his full bag now. Just get it out of the way.

Both the Robinson and Brunson contracts are declining deals.

Nice work so far by the FO.

Praise The Lord

We Are In Accord

That deal is of a piece with the Rudy Gobert Trade. 

I mean, who did Minny give up in the way of players?  Really?  Something to make the numbers work.  Malik Beasely was their Fournier [$15 million].  Younger.  Good player.  Got squeezed out by Edwards.  Beverley a wily vet [$13 Million].  Vanderbilt and Bolamaro [$4.3 and $2.4]. 

Redundancies, player wise, just like Fournier and Rose, their talent level notwithstanding.  We have Grimes and Reddish, so we could afford to let Evan go.  We have Brunson and McBride, and both IQ and Mitchell are two ways...we have Jokubaitis stashed in Spain. 

I have a feeling that Ainge is angling for draft capital.  Could always add some more #2 picks.  Do not believe we gave them all away. 

Do believe we would have to start with our own 2023 pick and the Dallas 2023 to start.  And 2025 or 2027.  I would be willing to give them one of the other #1 picks we copped on Draft Night.  Or a swap of #1 picks. 

In this way, we keep out core of youth, we maintain our depth and our size and our athleticism.  AND WE MAINTAIN OUR CORE Of Knicks, Knicks drafted, Knicks nurtured.   

NO FUCKING WAY I AM GIVING UTAH RJ, let alone with Obi and IQ.  They are HOMEGROWN KNICKS.  That counts for something. 
Title: PS
Post by: chipstern on July 13, 2022, 02:27:02 PM
On FACEBOOK, the various KNICKS Page postings?

The negativity and pure dumbass of Knicks "fans" has been numbing on the signings of Jalen, Isaiah, and Mitchell.  Dispense with Julius.  OK.  "Oh we should have gotten Ivey?"  I mean, DUH.  How? 

YES, to be a Knicks fan is to suffer.

YES, our track record is goofy. 

YES, we won't get fooled again. 

But the inabillity to differentiate between chicken salad and chicken shit is telling. 

As Alan Hahn has pointed out numerous times, the beaucoup of #1 draft picks we have been accumulating was not done TO DRAFT PLAYERS. 

Look at our roster?  The oldest players are Rose & Fournier. 

If we were to pull off this proposed Utah Phantasy, we would still have future draft capital and a Big 4, more or less where our oldest players would be Julius [27], Mitchell & Brunson [26] and RJ [22].  We would be three deep up and down the roster. 

Ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Title: Re: Tell You What
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 13, 2022, 03:28:26 PM
 If the Jazz are intrested in a mess of # 1 draft picks, the Knicks can accomodate them, a la Minny, with some contracts tossed inm, such as Fournier and Rose. 

If they are interested in RJ?

NOT.



 
Likely you are right

But I am not sure I would even w ant him if I am Utah.  Unless they want to reroute him.   

Hearing Ainge loves Herro.  Mitchell Miami bound and Knicks knocked back further.    OY.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 13, 2022, 03:29:48 PM
See, Chip -

sooner or later we are at the point where INCREMENTAL improvements become necessary.

Happens with every emerging team

Mitchell for Barrett is just that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 13, 2022, 03:42:30 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 13, 2022, 03:29:48 PM
See, Chip -

sooner or later we are at the point where INCREMENTAL improvements become necessary.

Happens with every emerging team

Mitchell for Barrett is just that.

Understand, but do not see the Knicks doing it. 

RJ and Donovan is the hook up, talent wise, and spirit wise. 

The Knicks are NOT GOING TO PONY UP RJ. 

On REAL GM, Duncan Robinson and Tyler Herro for Donovan gets it done. 

But Miami does NOT have the draft capital, and no way are they givng up Bam or Jimmy. 

I do believe if the Knicks ponied up Fournier & Rose, their 2023 and 2025 and 2027 #1 picks, the Mavs 2023 #1, and perhaps a couple of #2s, and even the rights to our Euro Stash, Rokas Jokubaitis, that might get it done. 

With Brunson and McBride, Mitchell and Quickley and Grimes, the Knicks have enough depth in the way of point guards and combo guards who can play on and off the ball and facilitate, that a prosepct as gifted at our #34 pick, might help sweeten the pot.  I would like to bring Jokubaitis acorss the pond in 2023-24, but to get Mitchell WITHOUT surrendering RJ, Obi or IQ? 

Well...

BUT THERE IS NO WAY THE KNICKS GIVE UP RJ.  He is one of our foundational pieces, and in the company of Brunson AND Mitchell, it would free him up to be altogether more dangerous, as would presumably, psyche willing, the earthly remains of Julius Randle. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 13, 2022, 04:10:18 PM
Anyone who manages to pry Mitchell from Ainge at this point likely makes their team worse in the aggregate. I would like it to be someone else if anyone. Miami is fine. If that deal is cooking, I hope we are being used to junk up the price.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 13, 2022, 04:42:04 PM
So 5-185 for Barrett.

You guys are hilarious.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 13, 2022, 04:43:58 PM
The negativity and pure dumbass of Knicks  fans has been numbing on the signings of Jalen, Isaiah, and Mitchell.  Dispense with Julius.  OK.   Oh we should have gotten Ivey? I mean, DUH.  How?



How?  I have asked from the start - what was the deal we turned down from Kings?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 13, 2022, 04:45:34 PM
Thing is of course vey would have played off the ball for us.


Brunson
Ivey
Barrett
Randle
Robinson

- and some of our other pieces would  then be different.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 13, 2022, 05:06:58 PM
I would be happier with 5 for 150ish with RJ. We will see where it goes.
Title: More MUSINGS On Donovan
Post by: chipstern on July 13, 2022, 05:49:30 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 13, 2022, 04:10:18 PM
Anyone who manages to pry Mitchell from Ainge at this point likely makes their team worse in the aggregate. I would like it to be someone else if anyone. Miami is fine. If that deal is cooking, I hope we are being used to junk up the price.

Would agree with FACIL as a Knicks booster, that if the price is RJ, OBI and IQ + _______?

No sale. 

I mean, could the 6'5" Quentin Grimes prove as significant a talent, offensively, defensively, and as a facilitator, as the 6'1" Donovan a year or two down the road?  A tall Tall TALL order, but while he ain't vaguely at a Donovan level presently, he certainly appears up to the challenge of winning the 2-spot and turning Fournier into a sixth man [let alone Cam, if we keep him]. 

A deal similar to the Minny deal for Gobert would not disturb me, so long as we can keep our core together, and not sunder chemistry.  We have an investment of both time AND spirit in RJ, Obi and IQ.  They are KNICKS, and have earned the right to move forward, and be part of a theoretical KNICKS ascension, this being Mitchell's FIFTH season, Julius & RJ's FOURTH season, the THIRD season for Obi & IQ, the SECOND season for Jericho, Quentin & Deuce [and Cam]. 

When...

WHEN?

When was the last time we had such a young squad, and year to year, season after season of continuity and DIDN'T EAT OUR YOUTH? 

Rod Strickland for Mo Cheeks anyone?  Dumping Trevor Ariza and David Lee?  Going all in on Melo when the price included Gallinari and Chandler and one of our last PGs of note, Felton, PLUS TWO, count 'em, TWO #1 Picks [one of which translated into PG par excellence Jamal Murray]?  The #1 picks we sundered for Eddy Curry, which turned into LaMarcus Aldrdige and Joachim Noah?  The #1 picks which went bye bye in the Marbury trade, one of which turned into Gordon Hayward? Punting on the #8 draft pick and offloading an ascendant Marcus Camby + an opportunity to draft Amare Stoudamire for the sweet temptation and instant gratification that was Antonio McDyess?

HELLO   

When was the last time we didn't eat our youth, mortgage our future, go all in for shiny objects and Re-UP our own developmental players, such as...MITCHELL ROBINSON. 

Mind you, I'm not making out our core of youth to be the last word in talent, but one cannot overstate the value of Year-By-Year coherence and chemistry, individual and collective GROWTH, and THAT is SIGNIFICANT. 

PS: Julius is surely on the clock, and can certainly make a case for himself after a desultory third season.  But Dig: EVERYTHING was messed up in 2021-22, not just Julius. 

(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/6ZVx4np3NGvNApoH_gZ.7g--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTY0MDtoPTQ1MA--/https://s.yimg.com/uu/api/res/1.2/74XreyXV7CKxVUgXmNtJuQ--~B/aD05MDA7dz0xMjgwO2FwcGlkPXl0YWNoeW9u/https://media.zenfs.com/en/hoops_hype_usa_today_sports_articles_974/1849fe2eae2764680b1729f942c0761c)

PPS: We are also going to see what Thibs has under the hood, because with the addition of Brunson and Hartenstein, TT has his PG and a big who can stretch and shoot and pass and defend, and is surely on the clock as well, in terms of his vision on both DEFENSE & OFFENSE, and having the pieces to fully implement his vision. NO EXCUSES. We are seeing some of his signature defensive tenacity translate into the summer league puppies.  Offense?  STAY TUNED.   

(https://images2.minutemediacdn.com/image/fetch/w_736,h_485,c_fill,g_auto,f_auto/https%3A%2F%2Fkingjamesgospel.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fgetty-images%2F2017%2F07%2F1232408250-850x560.jpeg)


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on July 13, 2022, 06:48:39 PM
Donovan is not a "shiny object."

He's a fierce, super talented 25-year old NBA star.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on July 13, 2022, 06:53:18 PM
RJ may be a star in the making.

Or he might just be a quite a nice NBA player.

No one knows.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 13, 2022, 06:53:23 PM
Quote from: elephant on July 13, 2022, 06:48:39 PM
Donovan is not a "shiny object."

He's a fierce, super talented 25-year old NBA star.

Agree.  He is a great competitor, a signficant talent and a high character cat. 

Unquestionably.

If the cost is RJ Barrett?  Let alone Obi and IQ. 

Fuck him.  And Ainge, too. 

If the cost is Fournier and Rose and three-or four #1 picks? 

Welcome to NY. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on July 13, 2022, 06:55:36 PM
I hear you about RJ though.

It would be fucking great to see them playing together.

Title: NOT A DIG
Post by: chipstern on July 13, 2022, 06:59:23 PM
Quote from: elephant on July 13, 2022, 06:53:18 PM
RJ may be a star in the making.

Or he might just be a quite a nice NBA player.

No one knows.

He's a KNICK, and has played like a committed, on the rise KNICK. 

From the inception.  Does that not count for SOMETHING?

You gonna write off last season.  Twenty points a game on this team with no fucking point, and all we can muster is quite nice. 

We disagree, Brother E.   And that mindset, of the grass being greener, never mind the manifest dedication and progress a 21 year old made in his third season,  is what I mean by the pursuit of shiny objects. 

Look at RJ's ascension and that of Jimmy Butler, who went from nice to DAWG in his fourth year. 

Also, I think Thibs would be disinclined to offload RJ, as he epitomizes what coach looks for in a competitor. 

Not a dig on Donovan Mitchell. 

A Brunson/Mitchell back court would be a little on the short side, but highly combustible, let alone with RJ at the three as their swiss army knife/attack dawg. 

We shall see. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 13, 2022, 08:30:32 PM
Quote from: elephant on July 13, 2022, 06:48:39 PM
Donovan is not a "shiny object."

He's a fierce, super talented 25-year old NBA star.

Bravo.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 13, 2022, 10:58:56 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 13, 2022, 06:53:23 PM
Quote from: elephant on July 13, 2022, 06:48:39 PM
Donovan is not a "shiny object."

He's a fierce, super talented 25-year old NBA star.

Agree.  He is a great competitor, a signficant talent and a high character cat. 

Unquestionably.

If the cost is RJ Barrett?  Let alone Obi and IQ. 

Fuck him.  And Ainge, too. 

If the cost is Fournier and Rose and three-or four #1 picks? 

Welcome to NY.

Always have to put yourself in the shoes of the other GM

You havent done that here
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 14, 2022, 01:30:40 AM
According to reports the CAA fuckery is all involved in bringing Mitchell to NY. I am now very worried about how this might go down.

I can live with Fournier, Rose, and either Deuce or IQ plus picks. Hard to argue that would not make us better.
Title: Re: NOT A DIG
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 14, 2022, 01:21:50 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 13, 2022, 06:59:23 PM
Quote from: elephant on July 13, 2022, 06:53:18 PM
RJ may be a star in the making.

Or he might just be a quite a nice NBA player.

No one knows.

He's a KNICK, and has played like a committed, on the rise KNICK. 

From the inception.  Does that not count for SOMETHING?

You gonna write off last season.  Twenty points a game on this team with no fucking point, and all we can muster is quite nice. 

We disagree, Brother E.   And that mindset, of the grass being greener, never mind the manifest dedication and progress a 21 year old made in his third season,  is what I mean by the pursuit of shiny objects. 

Look at RJ's ascension and that of Jimmy Butler, who went from nice to DAWG in his fourth year. 

Also, I think Thibs would be disinclined to offload RJ, as he epitomizes what coach looks for in a competitor. 

Not a dig on Donovan Mitchell. 

A Brunson/Mitchell back court would be a little on the short side, but highly combustible, let alone with RJ at the three as their swiss army knife/attack dawg. 

We shall see.

YOU ARE GIVING 30 MIL A YEAR TO A PLAAYER WHOSE HIGH PER IS 13.7.  THINK FOR A MINUTE.

No knock on BARRETT.    His contractual needs vs his positive effect on winning is the problem.  He is best as third/fourth best player on a team.

Sadly, now with just the one year left RJ's value is LOWER than when I wanted to deal him earlier.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 14, 2022, 01:28:01 PM
Stat for the day

R J Barrett was not in the top 20 in FG attempted.   But he was in the top TEN in FG missed.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 14, 2022, 01:33:53 PM
And EVERY player that took 17 shots per game averaged 20+.  RJ is in that groupp.  Good for him.

SIX of the 27 players averaging 20+ did it in less than 17 shots.
Title: YIKES
Post by: chipstern on July 14, 2022, 01:35:34 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 14, 2022, 01:30:40 AM
According to reports the CAA fuckery is all involved in bringing Mitchell to NY. I am now very worried about how this might go down.

I can live with Fournier, Rose, and either Deuce or IQ plus picks. Hard to argue that would not make us better.

I am positively terrified that The KNICKS are going to give away the store. 

Maybe not RJ, but some combination of Grimes, Reddish, IQ, Obi...minimally. 

I don't care about "draft capital" to be sure. 

But this is a game of chicken between Perry & Ainge, to see who blinks first. 

The tribal drumbeat of idiot Knicks fans and media clowns like Vaccaro in the POST, asserting that we HAVE TO GIVE UP R.J. is so infantile, so instant gratification, so completely bereft of understanding RJ's growth curve and game.   

Again, DONOVAN MITCHELL is surely a game changer, and clearly what RJ and [AND] Julius need to ascend to their next level ARE BETTER PLAYERS, players who can rudder the offense, command defensive attention, create their own shots and do likewise for others. 

I believe, oddly enough, as per Kiid, that no, I am NOT PUTTING MYSELF in Ainge's head, but as per Facil, looking at the numbers, picks, and some combo of Fournier, Rose And ______, plus picks. 

I suspect the Knicks would be willing to give up Reddish and/or IQ, less inclined to give up Grimes or Obi, completely discinclined to part with RJ. 

SURELY a Brunson/Mitchell backcourt would be the bomb, and render either some of our current backcourt...REDUNDANT.  Least ways in terms of rotation minutes. 

Rose, McBride
Quickley, Grimes
Fournier, Reddish

Can Perry stare down Ainge? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on July 14, 2022, 02:31:36 PM
I'm not assuming that the deal will go through it all.

But if so, we're on the verge of having a much better team.

Course there will be a price. It's not just about giving Utah draft picks and players we don't like.

I love IQ and OB. And I think Grimes can really be something. But, yeah, if they're part of the deal, they're part of the deal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 14, 2022, 02:42:57 PM
Quote from: elephant on July 14, 2022, 02:31:36 PM
I'm not assuming that the deal will go through it all.

But if so, we're on the verge of having a much better team.

Course there will be a price. It's not just about giving Utah draft picks and players we don't like.

I love IQ and OB. And I think Grimes can really be something. But, yeah, if they're part of the deal, they're part of the deal.

I'm sorry, but if IQ AND OB are traded, I am not a happy camper. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 14, 2022, 03:22:09 PM
I am with you Chip.

Fournier, Rose, IQ, Rokas and our 2024 first lotto protected, and two of the firsts we picked up. That is my final offer.

Mitch Isiah Jericho
Randle Obi Hunt
RJ Reddish
Mitchell Grimes Keels
Brunson McBride

We would have room for a wing and a guard without overly gutting our future capital.

Ainge can sell IQ as someone who can potentially grow into a Mitchell replacement.

I think I would still be happier if we stood pat.

If we do something like I suggested, ideally one of Brunson or Mitchell moves to the bench.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 14, 2022, 04:30:44 PM
Ayton gets his bag. Offer from Indy. Will Phoenix match? Will Rick play Ayton and Turner together if Phoenix lets him walk?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 14, 2022, 04:45:47 PM
A little extra scrutiny on Grimes tonight, if he suits up.
Title: You Know What [SCOTT PERRY In The House]
Post by: chipstern on July 14, 2022, 05:39:54 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 14, 2022, 04:45:47 PM
A little extra scrutiny on Grimes tonight, if he suits up.

Scott Perry has had his share of dropsies, but on the whole, he has set us up with some good moves, with or without the Leon Rose Tactical Team.

In 2017, Phool Jagoff having completely tanked Carmelo Anthony's Trade value, Perry managed before training camp to pry Enes Kanter and Doug McDermott out of OKC, along with the #36 draft pick, which he used on Mitchell Robinson, setting up a subsequent series of good will deals with the Thunder. 

In 2019, the luck of the draw gave us the number 3 pick, and Perry did not get cute, but selected R.J. Barrett. 

In 2020, Tyrese Haliburton fell right in our lap, but Perry & Leon were all in on Obi Toppin, probably figuring Julius Randle was not a keeper.  Oh well. 

In 2021 we turned the #19 and #21 picks into Quentin Grimes, and in turn, Cam Reddish. 

In 2021 we turned the #32 pick into Rokas Jokubaitis and Deuce McBride. 

In 2021 we turned Austin Rivers and Ignatz Brazdeikis into dead bodies and Jericho Sims. 

All KEEPERS in my estimation. 

In 2022 we turned the #11 pick, as best I can figure into four #1 picks, passed on one of those picks to Charlotte for the draft rights to Jalen Duren and passed him and the Earthly Remains of Kemba Walker on to the Pistons, furthering that good will to get them to take Nerlens Noel and Alec Burks in trade. 

Creating the cap space to sign Jalen Brunson and Isaiah Hartenstein, to re-up Mitchell Robinson, the draft capital to make a run at Donovan Mitchell. 

If [IF] Scott Perry get Danny Ainge to settle for a pair of match the salaries place holders such as Fournier and Rose, and in turn accept a cornucopia of draft capital in lieu of our young bucks?  I do believe the Knicks would be willing to minimally pony up our 2023 & 2025 #1s, Dallas' 2023 #1, and all three of the #1 picks we just obtained for our 2022 #1.  Maybe some swaps 2024 & 2026 swaps as well.  That's a shitload of draft assets, but allows us to keep our host of 24 and under homegrowns in house. 

WE SHALL SEE
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 14, 2022, 06:08:23 PM
Quote from: elephant on July 14, 2022, 02:31:36 PM
I'm not assuming that the deal will go through it all.

But if so, we're on the verge of having a much better team.

Course there will be a price. It's not just about giving Utah draft picks and players we don't like.

I love IQ and OB. And I think Grimes can really be something. But, yeah, if they're part of the deal, they're part of the deal.

Chip will make sure to tell us what every one of the draft picks ends up being.  Count on that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 14, 2022, 06:09:57 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 14, 2022, 04:30:44 PM
Ayton gets his bag. Offer from Indy. Will Phoenix match? Will Rick play Ayton and Turner together if Phoenix lets him walk?

Turner going elsewhere
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 14, 2022, 06:39:03 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 14, 2022, 03:22:09 PM
I am with you Chip.

Fournier, Rose, IQ, Rokas and our 2024 first lotto protected, and two of the firsts we picked up. That is my final offer.

Mitch Isiah Jericho
Randle Obi Hunt
RJ Reddish
Mitchell Grimes Keels
Brunson McBride

We would have room for a wing and a guard without overly gutting our future capital.

Ainge can sell IQ as someone who can potentially grow into a Mitchell replacement.

I think I would still be happier if we stood pat.

If we do something like I suggested, ideally one of Brunson or Mitchell moves to the bench.

God almighty man...

Get a check up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 14, 2022, 08:19:34 PM
Would agree with FACIL as a Knicks booster, that if the price is RJ, OBI and IQ  and?

No sale


Not sue where you all get this crap from
Title: Chip and Fac
Post by: carlos123 on July 14, 2022, 09:03:01 PM
Both Chamaco and ChamAAco are going after you two with a vengeance.

Poor thing, I think he feels lonely and wants a conversation.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLV5a1yG9OdsC-UIaAsDqKXvcK4ErdYidbGMmkuX5Wbo1phmMzpuMHI8M10JZ33zKpUMx2JykFlZjpp42CIuw4ud8GsHPkdFW8T51PNjHEbzgHDqnlHpt9JmM4VaAJPadUOv_Y2vlET5PQ0guQ_mBgEQ=w427-h439-no?authuser=0)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLXA6gc21H16unuIFjO8gMIPyfa22rMTELIgt8s56j_8n0B3QWxkWmFyh-l2NHBTmaQk8x0t_2hzw54YbZabyXDK0hoclgD0vXLe8GH6QO7YFjd2pGJpUM9HMqWnZDy_XAvSWQmqEEYfXbBWD0Ttgc9S=w626-h570-no?authuser=0)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 14, 2022, 09:41:21 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 14, 2022, 06:09:57 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 14, 2022, 04:30:44 PM
Ayton gets his bag. Offer from Indy. Will Phoenix match? Will Rick play Ayton and Turner together if Phoenix lets him walk?

Turner going elsewhere

Phoenix matched. But you are still some kind of genius in your own mind.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 14, 2022, 09:53:59 PM
We outmatched a Paololess SummerMagic team despite doing our level best to play down to their level. Thibs looked happier then I was when they cut to him on the sideline.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 15, 2022, 12:49:47 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 14, 2022, 09:41:21 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 14, 2022, 06:09:57 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 14, 2022, 04:30:44 PM
Ayton gets his bag. Offer from Indy. Will Phoenix match? Will Rick play Ayton and Turner together if Phoenix lets him walk?


 


 

 
Turner going elsewhere

Phoenix matched. But you are still some kind of genius in your own mind.

Nice.  Good  player.
Title: Doctoring
Post by: carlos123 on July 15, 2022, 12:56:23 AM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on July 15, 2022, 12:49:47 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 14, 2022, 09:41:21 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on July 14, 2022, 06:09:57 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 14, 2022, 04:30:44 PM
Ayton gets his bag. Offer from Indy. Will Phoenix match? Will Rick play Ayton and Turner together if Phoenix lets him walk?

niiiiice

good player

Turner going elsewhere

Phoenix matched. But you are still some kind of genius in your own mind.

Chamaco doctoring his own quotes. Amazing 🤩
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 15, 2022, 01:49:36 AM
Becoming too dumb to use quote boxes seems to be catching on the right wing, like chlamydia and Covid.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 15, 2022, 02:36:18 AM
Ainge is smoking crack. He can go screw himself and work it out with Mitchell some other way.
Title: Cough
Post by: chipstern on July 15, 2022, 08:14:25 AM
Six #1 Picks

Plus

Quentin, IQ, Deuce and Obi.

Fuck Donovan Mitchell.

He ain't Kobe Bryant
Title: Re: Cough
Post by: elephant on July 15, 2022, 10:26:27 AM
Quote from: chipstern on July 15, 2022, 08:14:25 AM
Six #1 Picks

Plus

Quentin, IQ, Deuce and Obi.

Fuck Donovan Mitchell.

He ain't Kobe Bryant

Yeah this is about what I listed yesterday as a probable demand.

I don't think it's crazy.

Feels like a general ballpark for demands. Just how many 1#s are the Knicks willing to give. You guys have a hard on for Quentin. Don't know why. He and McBride are ideal for any trade up.

IQ + Obi are the painful but inevitable pieces for a star. Truth is, as long as we have Randall and Thibs, Obi might better flourish on another club.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 15, 2022, 11:51:22 AM
Thoseare our last 4 premium draft picks.

With Toronto and Durant (not Kobe?  Donovan is certainly not Kevin) the talk was of Barnes (1 pick) being in it and deal was OFF due to that.  They want FOUR?  I dont think they do.  I think that is PRESS DROPPINGS being spit at by Chi and the masses.

2 of the 4 and picks?  And inclusive of Grimes or Toppin?  Sure.  More realistic.

Lets hope Barrett's 13.7 PER nears 16 this year if we dont get Mitchell.
Title: CRAZY [He Calls Me]
Post by: chipstern on July 15, 2022, 12:51:43 PM
Quote from: elephant on July 15, 2022, 10:26:27 AM
Quote from: chipstern on July 15, 2022, 08:14:25 AM
Six #1 Picks

Plus

Quentin, IQ, Deuce and Obi.

Fuck Donovan Mitchell.

He ain't Kobe Bryant

Yeah this is about what I listed yesterday as a probable demand.

I don't think it's crazy.

Feels like a general ballpark for demands. Just how many 1#s are the Knicks willing to give. You guys have a hard on for Quentin. Don't know why. He and McBride are ideal for any trade up.

IQ + Obi are the painful but inevitable pieces for a star. Truth is, as long as we have Randall and Thibs, Obi might better flourish on another club.

PATSY CLINE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbnrdCS57d0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbnrdCS57d0)

This is what CRAZY DESPERATION GETS YOU

Denver gets
Wilson Chandler
Raymond Felton
Danilo Gallinari
Timofey Mozgov
the Knicks 2014 first-round draft pick
the Warriors 2012 second-round pick (obtained from previous trade)
the Warriors 2013 second-round pick (obtained from previous trade)
$3 million in cash

Knicks receive
Carmelo Anthony
Chauncey Billups
Shelden Williams
Anthony Carter
Renaldo Balkman

"[The] painful but inevitable pieces for a star..."

(https://c.tenor.com/5vKnZA8IzwIAAAAM/ray-liotta-laughing.gif)
Title: Kiid Boshevik
Post by: chipstern on July 15, 2022, 12:56:15 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 15, 2022, 11:51:22 AM
Thoseare our last 4 premium draft picks.

With Toronto and Durant (not Kobe?  Donovan is certainly not Kevin) the talk was of Barnes (1 pick) being in it and deal was OFF due to that.  They want FOUR?  I dont think they do.  I think that is PRESS DROPPINGS being spit at by Chi and the masses.

2 of the 4 and picks?  And inclusive of Grimes or Toppin?  Sure.  More realistic.

Lets hope Barrett's 13.7 PER nears 16 this year if we dont get Mitchell.

The MASSES?

Well now, Comrade Kiid, CBS/NBA, for what it's worth.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/donovan-mitchell-trade-rumors-knicks-backed-away-from-jazzs-huge-request-that-included-six-draft-picks/ (https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/donovan-mitchell-trade-rumors-knicks-backed-away-from-jazzs-huge-request-that-included-six-draft-picks/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on July 15, 2022, 12:59:28 PM
That's what negotiations are for, aren't they.

Look, didn't you ever imagine that one great function of amassing draft picks is to be able to trade for a star?

We are not dismantling the team! We are DEEP! And that puts us in a good place to make a trade like this.
Title: We Agree To Disagree
Post by: chipstern on July 15, 2022, 01:07:20 PM
Quote from: elephant on July 15, 2022, 12:59:28 PM
That's what negotiations are for, aren't they.

Look, didn't you ever imagine that one great function of amassing draft picks is to be able to trade for a star?

We are not dismantling the team! We are DEEP! And that puts us in a good place to make a trade like this.

Absolutely.

Deep?

Surely.

Profligate?

Exhale.

The PRICE is obscene. 

And Grimes doesn't impress you? 

Duly noted. 

We shall see how this plays out, but Ainge is banking on the media and the fan base to unduly sway the Knicks. 

Stars?

I want a competitive team with camraderie and spirit. 

GROW YOUR OWN. 

No more shiny objects at any price. 
 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on July 15, 2022, 01:25:56 PM
Oy veh!
Title: Guilty As Charged
Post by: chipstern on July 15, 2022, 01:46:33 PM
Quote from: elephant on July 15, 2022, 01:25:56 PM
Oy veh!

(https://media3.giphy.com/media/kioZpjoUyj9EA/200w.gif?cid=82a1493bu47iycmb6w768rxq4vh316zopnv1n8jf0k4vitkf&rid=200w.gif&ct=g)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 15, 2022, 01:58:40 PM
If we had not signed Brunson, a big package for Mitchell would make more sense. Two high use midgets you have to keep on the floor gets you a team that never makes it past the first round.

Wait till January when we can get him for Mitch, Evan and two or three firsts. If we miss out entirely we are still better off than if we agree to the current terms offered by Utah.
Title: RECKLESS
Post by: chipstern on July 15, 2022, 02:58:38 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 15, 2022, 01:58:40 PM
If we had not signed Brunson, a big package for Mitchell would make more sense. Two high use midgets you have to keep on the floor gets you a team that never makes it past the first round.

Wait till January when we can get him for Mitch, Evan and two or three firsts. If we miss out entirely we are still better off than if we agree to the current terms offered by Utah.

I understand the spiritual angst of Knicks fans, and this compulsion to get...STARS.

The hesitancy of STARS to come to MSG. 

Hence my obsession with growing our own, and not engaging in the wily nily, AALLL INnnnn at any cost pursuit of a star. 

I love Donovan Mitchell, but the trades some Knicks fans and the media would be eager to sign off on are...

FUCKING RECKLESS

And after we squander all of our draft capital and younguns on Donovan Mitchell, where are the resources to strike when that all elusive SECOND STAR comes available, hmmmm. 

Not too likley given the state of the CBA, and the advantages and incentivizing of the hometown team to reup their talent. 

I mean I have a friend, well, HAD a friend, he kinda left earth orbit, who used to be on this forum, who made a bet with me, that I shall not hold him to, that Zion was coming to the Knicks.  I thought then, that this was masturbatory twaddle.  He also assured me that the Knicks had no long term interest in our former #36 pick, and would look to trade Mitchell.  They might yet, but instead rewarded him for his work, and MR in turn, took the hometown offer to remain with and extend the bond he had developed with Team MATES. 

We are going to be debating this ad infinitum. 

But look at how Phoenix and DeAndre Ayton played out. 

Durant wants to play there?

Suns are not trading Booker.  Hell, they are not even going to trade Bridges. 

As some scribe noted, teams have made their offers for Durant, and beyond THAT, they are going to be standing PAT. 

Nets wanted Scottie Barnes out of Toronto.  Probably asked about Butler and Bam from Miami. 

Irving?  Big BLUFF.

No one is going to risk the resources to bring him on. 

The Lakers.  It's Westbrook for Irving or nightynight, and that would have a nasty impact on the Nyets luxury tax situation. 

The Knicks are going to out wait the Jazz, until all the bids have come in. 

Think Pat Riley and Miami would offer up a package like Ainge is trying to leverage out of the "desperate" Knicks?  The fuck he would, even is he could.  And the two #1 picks he might be prepared to pony up are not going to amount to much. 

The Knicks have a number of connections to Donovan.  The Leon Rose/CAA connection.  The Coach Johnny Bryant connection.  The hometown boy makes good narrative

DM is definitely on their radar. 

I'm not particularly concerned about having a pair of 6'1" guards in the backcourt.  Not ideal defensively but hey, shot makers, shot creators, that draw coverage and read the floor.

The Detroit Backcourt was not big.

Isiah Thomas, 6'1"
Vinnie Johnson, 6'2"
Joe Dumars, 6'3" 

So these "negotiations" are going to drag on, possibly all summer, because as prudent, and calculating and transactional as the Knicks have been in playing the long game, I do not see them, pulling a Donnie Douche and caving in to the demands of an aggressive GM, as they did with Masai Ujiri, when he raped the Knicks on the Melo return, and again on the Bargnani heist. 

Yes, Elephant, those assets were squirrled away for future deals, and the Knicks have traded up out and around our first rounders for three seasons and counting, for cap space and future useage, when they adjudged the prospects available not to be commensurate with what draft capital might hold int he future. 

Almost as if they had...a...PLAN.  And we still ended up with Quickley and Grimes.  And Reddish. 

The willingness of many of my Brothers In Knicks Suffering to pony up a Hershel Walker scaled deal for Donovan Mitchell, my love for DM notwithstanding, is truly sad.  Yes, he is a worthy target, and would be one hell of an addition.  But not at any motherfucking price.  THe notion that we have to match or exceed the Wolves offer for Rudy Gobert is a load of crap. 

My last word...more or less. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 15, 2022, 05:27:17 PM
I would move off the Mitchell thing.

I would see if Indiana would take Evan and a second or two for Oshea Brisset. He is younger and a lot more physical at the wing. Indiana cleared a lot of space and could use a vet presence on the perimeter.

Mitch Isiah Jericho
Randle Obi
Reddish Brisset
Barrett Grimes Rose
Brunson Quickley McBride

Hunt Keels
Title: Re: RECKLESS
Post by: elephant on July 15, 2022, 05:44:15 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 15, 2022, 02:58:38 PM


And after we squander all of our draft capital and younguns on Donovan Mitchell, where are the resources to strike when that all elusive SECOND STAR comes available, hmmmm. 


All our younguns?

You just put the kibosh on a scenario where the Knicks would KEEP RJ, Grimes, Robinson, Hartenstein, Sims, Keels...Brunson AND get a brand new 25-year-old star.

As for that elusive second star, wait a second, I thought you felt that RJ would soon be ascending to those heights.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 15, 2022, 06:01:18 PM
We would wind up paying north of fifty mil a year for a backcourt that will get muscled by such imposing duos as Cole Anthony and Jalen Suggs. No thanks.

Miami, get your shit together and snag this kid before he winds up in our laps.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 15, 2022, 06:08:01 PM
Danny, it has been nice talking to you. Thank you for helping us with an outsiders perspective on the value of our players. Buhbye now. Good luck moving your boy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 15, 2022, 06:58:53 PM
I pinned my hopes on the wrong team in Florida.

Donovan should go to Orlando. He does not have to co-exist with any stars. He can lead Franz and Paolo to many huge runs in the east even after the team restocks Utah with all their spare assets.

Orlando has young and cheaps falling out its ears and Jonathan Issac for salary balance. 

Go fleece the Magic, Danny. And thanks again for checking in.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 15, 2022, 08:47:34 PM
Quote from: elephant on July 15, 2022, 12:59:28 PM
That's what negotiations are for, aren't they.

Look, didn't you ever imagine that one great function of amassing draft picks is to be able to trade for a star?

We are not dismantling the team! We are DEEP! And that puts us in a good place to make a trade like this.

Sanity visits forum.  Thanks, E.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 15, 2022, 08:52:48 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 15, 2022, 06:08:01 PM
Danny, it has been nice talking to you. Thank you for helping us with an outsiders perspective on the value of our players. Buhbye now. Good luck moving your boy.

His what?
Title: Re: RECKLESS
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 15, 2022, 08:56:41 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 15, 2022, 02:58:38 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 15, 2022, 01:58:40 PM
If we had not signed Brunson, a big package for Mitchell would make more sense. Two high use midgets you have to keep on the floor gets you a team that never makes it past the first round.

Wait till January when we can get him for Mitch, Evan and two or three firsts. If we miss out entirely we are still better off than if we agree to the current terms offered by Utah.

I understand the spiritual angst of Knicks fans, and this compulsion to get...STARS.

The hesitancy of STARS to come to MSG. 

Hence my obsession with growing our own, and not engaging in the wily nily, AALLL INnnnn at any cost pursuit of a star. 

I love Donovan Mitchell, but the trades some Knicks fans and the media would be eager to sign off on are...

FUCKING RECKLESS

And after we squander all of our draft capital and younguns on Donovan Mitchell, where are the resources to strike when that all elusive SECOND STAR comes available, hmmmm. 

Not too likley given the state of the CBA, and the advantages and incentivizing of the hometown team to reup their talent. 

I mean I have a friend, well, HAD a friend, he kinda left earth orbit, who used to be on this forum, who made a bet with me, that I shall not hold him to, that Zion was coming to the Knicks.  I thought then, that this was masturbatory twaddle.  He also assured me that the Knicks had no long term interest in our former #36 pick, and would look to trade Mitchell.  They might yet, but instead rewarded him for his work, and MR in turn, took the hometown offer to remain with and extend the bond he had developed with Team MATES. 

We are going to be debating this ad infinitum. 

But look at how Phoenix and DeAndre Ayton played out. 

Durant wants to play there?

Suns are not trading Booker.  Hell, they are not even going to trade Bridges. 

As some scribe noted, teams have made their offers for Durant, and beyond THAT, they are going to be standing PAT. 

Nets wanted Scottie Barnes out of Toronto.  Probably asked about Butler and Bam from Miami. 

Irving?  Big BLUFF.

No one is going to risk the resources to bring him on. 

The Lakers.  It's Westbrook for Irving or nightynight, and that would have a nasty impact on the Nyets luxury tax situation. 

The Knicks are going to out wait the Jazz, until all the bids have come in. 

Think Pat Riley and Miami would offer up a package like Ainge is trying to leverage out of the "desperate" Knicks?  The fuck he would, even is he could.  And the two #1 picks he might be prepared to pony up are not going to amount to much. 

The Knicks have a number of connections to Donovan.  The Leon Rose/CAA connection.  The Coach Johnny Bryant connection.  The hometown boy makes good narrative

DM is definitely on their radar. 

I'm not particularly concerned about having a pair of 6'1" guards in the backcourt.  Not ideal defensively but hey, shot makers, shot creators, that draw coverage and read the floor.

The Detroit Backcourt was not big.

Isiah Thomas, 6'1"
Vinnie Johnson, 6'2"
Joe Dumars, 6'3" 

So these "negotiations" are going to drag on, possibly all summer, because as prudent, and calculating and transactional as the Knicks have been in playing the long game, I do not see them, pulling a Donnie Douche and caving in to the demands of an aggressive GM, as they did with Masai Ujiri, when he raped the Knicks on the Melo return, and again on the Bargnani heist. 

Yes, Elephant, those assets were squirrled away for future deals, and the Knicks have traded up out and around our first rounders for three seasons and counting, for cap space and future useage, when they adjudged the prospects available not to be commensurate with what draft capital might hold int he future. 

Almost as if they had...a...PLAN.  And we still ended up with Quickley and Grimes.  And Reddish. 

The willingness of many of my Brothers In Knicks Suffering to pony up a Hershel Walker scaled deal for Donovan Mitchell, my love for DM notwithstanding, is truly sad.  Yes, he is a worthy target, and would be one hell of an addition.  But not at any motherfucking price.  THe notion that we have to match or exceed the Wolves offer for Rudy Gobert is a load of crap. 

My last word...more or less.

Who among your "brethren" has proposed a deal you dont like - and what was it?
Title: Calling for HELP!!!
Post by: carlos123 on July 15, 2022, 10:18:10 PM
Quote from: chamAAcocartero8 on July 15, 2022, 08:56:41 PM
Quote from: Chip on July 15, 2022, 02:58:38 PM
... ... ... ...
                  ... ... ... ...
My last word...more or less.

Who among your "brethren" has proposed a deal you dont like - and what was it?

Chip, it looks like ChamAAco is DESPERATE for a conversation with you.

He really, really, REALLY wants your attention.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 16, 2022, 01:13:34 PM
Well..well..


http://www.espn.com/espnradio/podcast/archive/_/id/10528553
Title: Re: Calling for HELP!!!
Post by: chipstern on July 16, 2022, 10:20:15 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on July 15, 2022, 10:18:10 PM
Quote from: chamAAcocartero8 on July 15, 2022, 08:56:41 PM
Quote from: Chip on July 15, 2022, 02:58:38 PM
... ... ... ...
                  ... ... ... ...
My last word...more or less.

Who among your "brethren" has proposed a deal you dont like - and what was it?

Chip, it looks like ChamAAco is DESPERATE for a conversation with you.

He really, really, REALLY wants your attention.

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/3b0e323efab031c449d537afd0780ede/tumblr_ngcigz5sjm1tkxerzo1_400.gifv)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 17, 2022, 01:50:22 PM
Nice signing for Ainge

https://hoopshype.com/rumor/simone-fontecchio-to-jazz/
Title: Re: Kiid Boshevik
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 17, 2022, 02:32:46 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 15, 2022, 12:56:15 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 15, 2022, 11:51:22 AM
Thoseare our last 4 premium draft picks.

With Toronto and Durant (not Kobe?  Donovan is certainly not Kevin) the talk was of Barnes (1 pick) being in it and deal was OFF due to that.  They want FOUR?  I dont think they do.  I think that is PRESS DROPPINGS being spit at by Chi and the masses.

2 of the 4 and picks?  And inclusive of Grimes or Toppin?  Sure.  More realistic.

Lets hope Barrett's 13.7 PER nears 16 this year if we dont get Mitchell.

The MASSES?

Well now, Comrade Kiid, CBS/NBA, for what it's worth.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/donovan-mitchell-trade-rumors-knicks-backed-away-from-jazzs-huge-request-that-included-six-draft-picks/ (https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/donovan-mitchell-trade-rumors-knicks-backed-away-from-jazzs-huge-request-that-included-six-draft-picks/)

It was Tony Jones of the ATHLETIC.  And his source was his own imagination
  No doubt all in that package were discussed but not TEN for ONE.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 17, 2022, 04:14:42 PM
We really have so many picks that if we really want him we are going to get him.

Assuming everyone is healthy, do you like Brogdon and Smart or Brunson and Mitchell better, Harden and Maxey, Trey and DeJonte?

I do not see Brunson and Mitchell as a viable backcourt that works.

You can play them together for 12-18 minutes spread throughout the game and run one or the other the rest of the way so they both get their minutes.

DM would be so much happier in Florida.
Title: Portland
Post by: chipstern on July 17, 2022, 04:52:07 PM
Trendon Watford [21 years old, LSU, 6'9" 240] has got game. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on July 17, 2022, 04:54:48 PM
With no more trades, I like where we are today. I'm primed to see how Brunson can help Randall....whether Obi keeps ascending...whether Grimes is as talented as I think he can be.

But Julius is our best player.

And that remains a problem. The minute we get someone above him in the pecking order, the team immediately improves. Julius improves.

DM is that someone (and if not DM, how many more fucking years you want to wait to import a good young star?)

The DM + Brunson combo may be a bit undersized. Okay. But that says nothing of chemistry. They're intense motherfuckers who play to win. I can see the combo being formidable.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 17, 2022, 09:49:22 PM
Believe it - Mitchell is coming to NY
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 17, 2022, 09:58:44 PM
Assuming everyone is healthy, do you like Brogdon and Smart or Brunson and Mitchell better, Harden and Maxey, Trey and DeJonte?


BROGDON willl come off the bench for Celtics.

1)  Smart, Brown
2)  Young, Muray
3)  Brunson, Mitchell
4)  Harden, Maxey
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 18, 2022, 09:42:00 AM
My problem with all this of course is that I have never been a great fan of DM

I am sure this will change.
Title: Elephantasy
Post by: chipstern on July 18, 2022, 12:03:58 PM
(https://i.discogs.com/6W6RTwh4B0Ex_MmtpI8F5_3oi2jruOwJEyufLuSYNfY/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:600/w:598/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTIwMTk3/NjEtMTQ4NDY1Njk4/OS0yMjIwLmpwZWc.jpeg)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIL5kGL75U0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIL5kGL75U0)

Don Cherry--ELEPHANTASY

So Brother E, all a tingle are we? 

And what do you imagine the Knicks offer to be? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 18, 2022, 03:50:14 PM
Butthurt Tsai still searches for deal

https://hoopshype.com/2022/07/18/nets-still-trying-to-find-a-deal-for-kevin-durant/

Hey, Joe -

Being so intent on dealing someone keeps the price down.
Title: Crickets [The SHINY OBJECTS Chronicles]
Post by: chipstern on July 19, 2022, 02:39:43 PM
No News Is Good News

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/InbornFlawlessFossa-size_restricted.gif)
Title: Re: Crickets [The SHINY OBJECTS Chronicles]
Post by: carlos123 on July 19, 2022, 07:14:36 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 19, 2022, 02:39:43 PM
No News Is Good News

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/InbornFlawlessFossa-size_restricted.gif)
YES!
(https://www.lavozdegalicia.es/img/avatar/13040.jpg)
YES!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 19, 2022, 09:07:14 PM
Teams arent up against anything right now -


Deals will be mulled over....


Trigger pulled down the road.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 19, 2022, 09:13:36 PM
If we do nothing further we should be improved frm a year ago (Reddish in for Burks, Hartenstein/Sims for Noel, Brunson/Rose/McBride for Rose/Burks/IQ, Fournier/Grimes share emerging with IQ the floater)       

But other teams improved as well.


When you think about it we have too many usable parts.  The dealing of 3 for 1 for Mitchell makes plenty o sense in that respect.  Grimes/IQ/Sims is best - with 4 picks, 3 of them Knicks unprotecteds

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 19, 2022, 09:33:12 PM
https://stories.app.goo.gl/qksd


I still like Obi at backup 4.  Though Hartentein may get some in addition to playing the 5.

Maybe Sims sits a bit longer
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 19, 2022, 09:43:42 PM
You cannot count on health and the only problem caused by overstocking talent is when you have to pay them. Also, internal competition sharpens everybody.

The only silver lining I see to a Mitchell deal is that Fournier definitely goes.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 19, 2022, 10:23:03 PM
....plays less.


Fixed
Title: Chamaco knows
Post by: carlos123 on July 19, 2022, 10:36:16 PM
Quote from: Fac on July 19, 2022, 09:43:42 PM
You cannot count on health and the only problem caused by overstocking talent is when you have to pay them. Also, internal competition sharpens everybody.

The only silver lining I see to a Mitchell deal is that Fournier definitely goes.

Quote from: chamacocartero8 on July 19, 2022, 10:23:03 PM
....plays less.


Fixed

Chamaco knows, and also ...

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLW7GtkO0uOd1uQ5lhXF05Ise4h_yF_WyxHhiFIIXvPRJCJIBJ9HaSMqMB2-pFHV5Gsz9HwHf27zfe1gRgwEjE8drhWLiU_8VQjKBMxyk1V_5ewz4C5VIW4ZvaeS5hPlhCMNt1nXi-FxdEb3CV4u2nA8=w626-h570-no?authuser=0)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on July 20, 2022, 11:55:03 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 19, 2022, 09:13:36 PM
If we do nothing further we should be improved frm a year ago (Reddish in for Burks, Sims for Noel, Brunson/Rose/McBride for Rose/Burks/IQ, Fournier/Grimes share emerging with IQ the floater)       

It's interesting that all of us seem to agree with this. I actually think we could be much better because our promising young talent is developing, and we now have a point guard to facilitate all that.

Julius remains the dilemma. Many Knick fans seem to hate the dude after his bouts of public sulking and acrimony.
 
Funny thing, even though he frustrated the fuck out of me, I like him. Strong, athletic, a real talent. And he has heart. As I've said a million times, he's just been used wrong or, at the least, HANDLED wrong. So I figured that he or Thibs would have to go. 

Easier said than done. So with both of them staying (at least as of today), it will be interesting to see how his role is changed.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 20, 2022, 12:28:27 PM
Julius remains the dilemma. Many Knick fans seem to hate the dude after his bouts of public sulking and acrimony.


Such silliness

Read Thibodeaux for signs on how any of that affected the team.

It's about Juilius's on court production and how he gets along with everyone in the team room.  Sulking?  Heck - shows how much he cares.  I bet you Harden detractors would love to see James show some of that caring in his body language.  You hate the "who cares? look.  But when someone cares -outwardly - you hate this too.
Title: Donovan Mitchell
Post by: chipstern on July 20, 2022, 01:05:46 PM
Latest Reports?

STALEMATE.

Thank you Brock Aller.

Oh, and Thank GOD.
Title: March 22, 2022
Post by: chipstern on July 20, 2022, 01:47:07 PM
Versus the Trailblazers.

Sims, Toppin, RJ, IQ, Deuce looking great...motion, ball movement, coherence.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 20, 2022, 02:00:53 PM
Ainge gets to find out how much capital and interest there is in every corner of the league then he will return in acknowledgment of his weakness, or someone will manage to meet the mountain of overpaying for Donavan Mitchell. That is something we can, but hopefully will not do.

The best thing we can do for Julius this season is to resolve our backcourt chaos this season by end of camp latest and build chemistry with stability from preseason on.

It looks like Jules decided that mobility, stamina, and pop are the things that will make him happy this season so he put in the work to become less of a man. We have likely improved his relevant help. Hartenstein probably gives us a bit more than Taj and Brunson should be a step up from one of my favorite recent Knicks, Alec Burks. The kids know the program. I saw Thibs in Vegas laughing like the Joker.

If a good opportunity comes around, that is great. We do not need to do anything but get to work to see a serious improvement in team play and results.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on July 20, 2022, 02:17:17 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 20, 2022, 12:28:27 PM
Julius remains the dilemma. Many Knick fans seem to hate the dude after his bouts of public sulking and acrimony.


Such silliness

Read Thibodeaux for signs on how any of that affected the team.

It's about Juilius's on court production and how he gets along with everyone in the team room.  Sulking?  Heck - shows how much he cares.  I bet you Harden detractors would love to see James show some of that caring in his body language.  You hate the "who cares? look.  But when someone cares -outwardly - you hate this too.

No. And yes..

No. That shit was real. There were several times on court when I saw him give up on the moment, stop hustling in frustration, just extremely poor leadership. I suspect Lester could provide plenty of examples.

But yes. That wasn't the norm. It was him at his worse. He does seem to care. And I've never seen anything suggesting he doesn't have the respect and affection of his teammates.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 20, 2022, 02:23:36 PM
DEALS WITH ROSE

Rose makes  14.5 million, so you need to add another  9.7 million in salary to make the deal work.

Here are a few combinations of young players that can work under NBA trade rules

 Rose, Cam Reddish and Obi Toppin

 Rose, Toppin, Immanuel Quickley and Grimes

 Rose, Reddish, Quickley and Grimes


DEALS WITH FOURNIER

Fournier makes  18 million, so you need to add another  6.2 million to make a trade work under NBA rules.

Here are a few combinations of young players plus Fournier that work

 Fournier, Reddish and Grimes

 Fournier, Reddish and Quickley

 Fournier, Reddish and Miles McBride

 Fournier, Toppin plus any one of the players mentioned above



https://www.sny.tv/articles/knicks-notes-trade-package-for-donovan-mitchell
Title: Ban The AR15 & Fucking One Sided Deals Between The Knicks & Danny Ainge
Post by: chipstern on July 20, 2022, 03:23:53 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 20, 2022, 02:23:36 PM
DEALS WITH ROSE

Rose makes  14.5 million, so you need to add another  9.7 million in salary to make the deal work.

Here are a few combinations of young players that can work under NBA trade rules

 Rose, Cam Reddish and Obi Toppin

 Rose, Toppin, Immanuel Quickley and Grimes

 Rose, Reddish, Quickley and Grimes


DEALS WITH FOURNIER

Fournier makes  18 million, so you need to add another  6.2 million to make a trade work under NBA rules.

Here are a few combinations of young players plus Fournier that work

 Fournier, Reddish and Grimes

 Fournier, Reddish and Quickley

 Fournier, Reddish and Miles McBride

 Fournier, Toppin plus any one of the players mentioned above

https://www.sny.tv/articles/knicks-notes-trade-package-for-donovan-mitchell

With all due respect to the estimable Donovan Mitchell, and a modicum of respect to The Prophet Kiid

But FUCK EACH AND EVERY ONE of these one-sided, absurdly weighted DEALS. 

Nyets have asked Miami for Bam.

Nyets have asked Tornoto for Scotty Barnes. 

Their response was in keeping with the Knicks response to Ainge. 

FUCK U
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 20, 2022, 03:27:46 PM
Fournier, Rose, Quickley. All players that make up Mitchells minutes. Our 2024 and 2026 unprotected, Dallas 2023, Washington 2023, and either a pick swap in 2025 or the rights to Rokas.

Last best offer that causes me no tears if Ainge turns down.

What team has a better offer that they are willing to make?

I do not see much competition from the rest of the market.
Title: Re: Ban The AR15 & Fucking One Sided Deals Between The Knicks & Danny Ainge
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 20, 2022, 03:34:49 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 20, 2022, 03:23:53 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 20, 2022, 02:23:36 PM
DEALS WITH ROSE

Rose makes  14.5 million, so you need to add another  9.7 million in salary to make the deal work.

Here are a few combinations of young players that can work under NBA trade rules

 Rose, Cam Reddish and Obi Toppin

 Rose, Toppin, Immanuel Quickley and Grimes

 Rose, Reddish, Quickley and Grimes


DEALS WITH FOURNIER

Fournier makes  18 million, so you need to add another  6.2 million to make a trade work under NBA rules.

Here are a few combinations of young players plus Fournier that work

 Fournier, Reddish and Grimes

 Fournier, Reddish and Quickley

 Fournier, Reddish and Miles McBride

 Fournier, Toppin plus any one of the players mentioned above

https://www.sny.tv/articles/knicks-notes-trade-package-for-donovan-mitchell

With all due respect to the estimable Donovan Mitchell, and a modicum of respect to The Prophet Kiid

But FUCK EACH AND EVERY ONE of these one-sided, absurdly weighted DEALS. 

Nyets have asked Miami for Bam.

Nyets have asked Tornoto for Scotty Barnes. 

Their response was in keeping with the Knicks response to Ainge. 

FUCK U


Yeah man - I like Fournier too
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 20, 2022, 03:37:21 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 20, 2022, 03:27:46 PM
Fournier, Rose, Quickley. All players that make up Mitchells minutes. Our 2024 and 2026 unprotected, Dallas 2023, Washington 2023, and either a pick swap in 2025 or the rights to Rokas.

Last best offer that causes me no tears if Ainge turns down.

What team has a better offer that they are willing to make?

I do not see much competition from the rest of the market.

There is very little future value in this offer - unless they could reroute Fournier.

Its basically Quickley and a bunch of late draft tickets
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 20, 2022, 05:13:55 PM
No guarantee we would be any good in 24 or 26. But basically, yeah. And they get a long term commitment to the most prolific three point shooter over a season for our franchise. Is not that worth something? And a former now rejuvenated MVP. I do not think another team is going to sell Ainge on a sweeter deal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 21, 2022, 02:25:00 PM
Brooklyn

I cant believe what I am about to say, Windhorst began, laughing.  The Brooklyn Nets have had a good off season. In a vacuum, they have gotten healthier. They have added supporting pieces. There  is optimism Ben Simmons is going to be better. And I think looking at the menu of options, the Nets are kinda like,  Kyrie, Kevin, take a look here.  What I will say is nobody knows what Kevin Durant is thinking right now. His communication with teammates and others in the league has been sparse. I dont even think that the Nets have a 100 percent understanding of why Kevin asked for a trade.  He spoke to the owner in Joe Tsai, but I am not sure that the Nets are 100 percent on the understanding of it. I think really that the next step in this, barring a teams change of heart to meet the Nets price  which I dont see at this point in the calendar  I think we are going to have to hear from Kevin Durant about how open he is to running it back with the Nets. So here we go, as everyone breaks for the summer, waiting for that to happen
Title: At The Risk Of Repeating Myself...
Post by: chipstern on July 21, 2022, 03:05:28 PM
Nyets' Sean Marks not quite as all fired goofy as Ainge, but still...

Asking Bam from the Heat?

Scottie Barnes from the Raptors? 

Presumably, the Full Monty [Wiggins, Wiseman, Moody, Kuminga] from the Warriors? 

No...SALE. 

Phoenix wasn't going to trade Booker, hell, trade Bridges, and they just matched Ayton's max offer, so who?  Where?  HOW?

Durant is signed for what, FOUR More YEARS with the Nyets, at 44-47-51-54 million.  Is he going to stay home and not get paid?  As much as likes money, let alone how much he loves basketball. 

A full season with Kyrie and Ben, Claxton and Cam, Joe and Seth, Patty Mills and TJ Warren? 

That's a championship contender, no? 

Get over yourself, Kevin. 

PS: My reading of the Warriors is that they could give two shits about KD, kind thoughts and words notwithstanding.  Andrew Wiggins ain't Durant, but he is just starting to peak and is all of 27.  Did any of you see James Wiseman play in Summer League.  DAMN.  He has it all--size, agillity, an inside and outside game, offensive and defensive prowess, and is all of 21.  Moody, Kuminga, Poole, Looney.  That's a young and very young core to build on for the next decade.  Tough Titties, Kevin.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 21, 2022, 03:41:44 PM
Knicks get Mitchell


Let's go!!!!!!!!!!



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 21, 2022, 03:48:17 PM
Get over yourself, Kevin.


Durant's a pro.

He will be fine running it back (and down our throats)
Title: Deal?
Post by: chipstern on July 21, 2022, 04:22:09 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 21, 2022, 03:41:44 PM
Knicks get Mitchell


Let's go!!!!!!!!!!

And your source for this is WHAT?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 21, 2022, 04:24:15 PM
A midget named Harry.
Title: Joke?
Post by: chipstern on July 21, 2022, 04:28:15 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 21, 2022, 04:24:15 PM
A midget named Harry.

Heard from a reliable source that Knicks are finalizing a three team trade with Utah and LA for Donovan Mitchell and Bojan Bogdonavic. Utah receives 6 FRP Quentin Grimes and Russell Westbrook

Lakers receive Julius Randle Evan Fournier Derrick Rose and a chopped cheese

Apparently [purportedly] these "reports" are all emenating out of Utah.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 21, 2022, 04:46:08 PM
Minutes for Reddish.....
Title: Tick Tock
Post by: chipstern on July 21, 2022, 04:51:14 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 21, 2022, 04:46:08 PM
Minutes for Reddish.....

AGAIN, you are presuming this "trade" is for real. 

If...

IF there is any semblance of reality to this trade, the Lakers make out better than the Jazz. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 21, 2022, 04:58:06 PM
What trade?

You posted it - not me.

I just said if that particular deal occurred there would be more Reddish minutes.

We really like Hartenstein and Toppin, which makes the deal listed more realistic.  But Rose and Grimes?  Maybe they have more faith in IQ than I do.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 21, 2022, 05:02:38 PM
Brunson/Quickley
Mitchell/Barrett
Barrett/Reddish
Bojan/Toppin
Robinson/Hartenstein
McBride/Sims/Hunt/Potter/Keels/Montero/Jeffries

Room for one more
Title: STEVE POPPER
Post by: chipstern on July 21, 2022, 05:57:57 PM
We are going to have a lot of these days but hearing that chatter of a Knicks deal for Donovan Mitchell being done is not accurate.

Nothing imminent.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 21, 2022, 05:59:30 PM
yeah, no shit.

But I passed along your deal to other locales just for kicks.  Creating chatter at least - thanks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 21, 2022, 06:00:00 PM
Funny though -I can usually rely on Harry.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 21, 2022, 06:05:46 PM
James - doin business

With a  33 million starting salary, James Harden could  have locked himself into a maximum of five years,  191.4 million. Instead, he could decline his player option in 2023 and re sign with the Sixers for up to five years, projected at  270 million next season. While he may not get that full amount, a strong season could put him in a position to earn a near maximum contract, especially since the Sixers wont have any way to replace him if he leaves. Alternatively, the player option protects him if he has a down year or suffers a significant injury. 
 
Because Harden re signed for only one season without an option year, he will have veto rights on a trade in 2022 23. This is because if he agrees to get traded, his Bird rights would revert to Non Bird. That means if traded, his new team would be limited to re signing him to four years,  141.9 million instead of the maximum, unless they have enough cap space to give him more.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 21, 2022, 09:52:12 PM
https://www.bballrumors.com/2022/07/nba-rumors-signs-all-around-that.html
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 22, 2022, 04:11:14 AM
Kid is full of shit.

His sources are bitches, as he is.

There is no deal and no credibility for bitches like Kid.
Title: Salt Lake Shitty
Post by: chipstern on July 22, 2022, 12:14:45 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 22, 2022, 04:11:14 AM
Kid is full of shit.

His sources are bitches, as he is.

There is no deal and no credibility for bitches like Kid.

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/DampHonestLemming-max-1mb.gif)

Again, Kiid said there WAS A DEAL. 

Offered no proof.

I surfed the rumor mill and found that three-way concoction with the Knicks-Jazz-Lakers, and that most of the "intelligence" on this "Done Deal" was originating in the discarded Kleenex of a Utah "correspondence." 

Somehow, the Lakers ending up with not only Randle but Fournier+Rose would seem to be, COUGH, a tell. 

Kiid likes to stir poop up when he is not cleaning up his own nocturnal Jimmer Emissions with his own box of Anne Coulter Signature Kleenex

It's summer.  He's not agitating for 8 year olds to have access to AR-15s.  So leave us count our blessings, and wish peace and contentment to Kiid & Family, what with NO substanative "news" or "activity" until, what, the end of September? 

[September 30 October 2 Warriors and Wizards to play in NBA Japan Games 2022 in Tokyo]

Meanwhile, the cat spreading all of this poop upon the firmament in Utah is projecting a BIG HAUL.  What else would he project, now that both Lake Mead & The Great Salt Lake are running dry?  Got to have something to look forward to, if only draft picks. 

We shall see. 

PS: Google THURL BAILEY on his assessment of how young Donovan Mitchell is, how good DM is, how much better he might yet get, and the level of CHARACTER Thurl percives in him vis a vis his all around game and capacity for even more profound leadership. 

(https://c.tenor.com/udd0Q3s9WI4AAAAM/i-did-not-spread-that-rumor-rumors.gif)

WE SHALL SEE.

(https://media4.giphy.com/media/CQfik7Jq9sLavUrVqu/200.gif)


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 22, 2022, 12:32:49 PM
I surfed the rumor mill and found that three way concoction with the Knicks Jazz Lakers, and that most of the  intelligence on this  Done Deal was originating in the discarded Kleenex of a Utah  correspondence.


The deal YOU posted.
Title: Chamaco got his wishes (almost) fulfilled
Post by: carlos123 on July 22, 2022, 12:33:51 PM
He was desperate for a conversation with Chip.

While that has not happened, at least Chip is talking about him.

AND THAT, BOYZ AND GURLS, COUNTS FOR SOMETHIN

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLWdSig00MPP5F2Sdy_9D7mVHLgF3ZWAUU-t-DkzB5PliXRv34esxKYFXTcZ-Hd3540RC5o9yq-y48YBFRJgzWjDsdNBCTpKogDSUf-sLfWCvtkWsMx0MF_pG4bFsT8UDaRZVepi5Ei5R8yWS7ycRcRS=w285-h190-no?authuser=0)
Title: HEH
Post by: chipstern on July 22, 2022, 12:44:56 PM
He Who Smelt It

Dealt It

(https://media2.giphy.com/media/4sluhfvsbzgTm/200.gif)

Typical...no? 

(https://j.gifs.com/yNNZqe.gif)

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on July 22, 2022, 01:38:23 PM
Well, yeah, but....

there's an obvious logic to getting rid of Julius in this deal. So it's not crazy that the Knicks would be exploring those options.

I knew we can't afford Randle, RJ, Brunson + Mitchell into the future (RJ will need to get paid next year), but I was hoping for one year with all 4, so that we can better see what's what. Who stays, who needs to go.

But I can see that for those who feel RJ is a definite star or Randle is a definite liability, it's best to make the move now.
Title: Liability?
Post by: chipstern on July 22, 2022, 01:51:08 PM
Quote from: elephant on July 22, 2022, 01:38:23 PM
Well, yeah, but....

there's an obvious logic to getting rid of Julius in this deal. So it's not crazy that the Knicks would be exploring those options.

I knew we can't afford Randle, RJ, Brunson + Mitchell into the future (RJ will need to get paid next year), but I was hoping for one year with all 4, so that we can better see what's what. Who stays, who needs to go.

But I can see that for those who feel RJ is a definite star or Randle is a definite liability, it's best to make the move now.

The argument about affording multiple star contracts seems...well, YOU PAY FOR TALENT IN THIS LEAGUE, one way or another.  Assuming for a moment we cop Mitchell to go with Jalen and RJ, absent Julius, if a "superstar" comes on the market, and we make a run at them, we pay for that much as, if not more than, we pay for Julius. 

Also, it would seem a fairly good idea to rebuild Julius' value, so that the "selling price" resembles 2020-21 rather than 2021-22. 

The feeding frenzy regading dumping Julius before he has even had a chance to take the court in a presumably NEW offensive look chaired by an actual factual PG....Jalen Brunson--seems rather self-immolating to me, the legit arguments in favor of dispensing with the contractual commitments to JR & Fournier notwithstanding. 

And yes, opting out of Julius would certainly have a ripple effect, opening up significant minutes for Sims at the 5, Hartenstein at the 5 & Stretch 4, Obi at the 4, Feron Hunt at the 3-4, and Cam at the 2-3-4.  BUT ARE ANY OF THEM Significantly BETTER THAN JULIUS? 

And, assuming for a moment that a deal for Donovan does not materialize, and we stand pat, the absence of Burks opens up more minutes not only for RJ and Grimes, but Fournier and Reddish. 

And speaking for myself, I would really like to see Derek Rose play 2022-23 with Brunson, Quickley and McBride.  Team option for 2023-24, so there goes his $14 million cap hit.  What Jalen and our fellow puppies could glean from practicing with him is invaluable, let alone providing Thibs with a veteran security blanket. 

PS: Donovan due 30-32-34-37 over the next four years, 2025-2026 a player option. 

PPS:  Our current contractual obligations, which would suggest the possibility RJ signs for Julius/Jalen money or something south of Donovan money

Julius: 23-25-27-29 [final season player option, plus contract has a 15% trade kicker]

Fournier: 18-18-19 [final season team option]

Mitchell: 17-15-14-13 [fully guaranteed]

(https://www.nydailynews.com/resizer/LFHxMS013jXN7VuYvOLNgJ2JYNA=/415x311/top/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/tronc/GW4JCIFHKNGEFLSNY2KMJP2EFI.jpg)

Anyway, y'all, BusyBusyBusy, keepin' all reet in the mid summer heat with naught to compete as we beat on our meats 'til summer's complete and training camp beckons with the promise of further defeats in the fall of fresh expectations...

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 22, 2022, 02:11:29 PM
I knew we cant afford Randle, RJ, Brunson and Mitchell into the future as RJ will need to get paid next year , but I was hoping for one year with all 4, so that we can better see what what. Who stays, who needs to go.



Nice idea.  It seems to be possible, depending on what we are willing to give.


Your statement on RJ is the reason I figured we swap HIM for Mitchell (an upgrade) - Randle's  deal is more palatable than what it seems RJ wants.

If you disagree - do you see Barrett taking a Jaylen Brown type contract (I think it was 4-106)?

Brown was coming off a 48/38/72 percentage 20+ point season at 16.9 PER
Title: Mitchell thoughts
Post by: Kam on July 22, 2022, 02:47:30 PM
1. What is the hurry?  No urgency for Knicks to get this deal done before the season - is there?     Everything I've read and heard is that Ainge wants to play the lottery odds, not be a potential play-in team with Mitchell.  So he is motivated to make a deal.   Who are we bidding against?  Nobody can offer Ainge unprotected Knicks first round picks (historically very juicy) except the Knicks at this point.    Good luck finding your next building block with a new contract eligible Tyler Herro and bunch of Miami Heat first rounders in the mid 20s.

2.  Flowing from the first thought, by not making a deal before the season we get to see how the veterans look with a top 15 point guard running the show.   Randle's turnovers and assists will decrease, but possessions should end in fewer turnovers overall.   I predict Randle will look a lot better.

3. Flowing from the second thought, if Randle looks better then our trade package assets get more interesting.  We may ultimately give up less the longer we wait. Or if Utah down't want Randle we can get more by waiting to trade him elsewhere when his value is higher.  Let Brunson see what he can do for Evan and Julius.

4. I only want to part with players playing in Mitchells minutes.... IQ would hurt to lose but I would understand. Ditto McBride, DRose, the rights to Jokubitis etc.

5. Not dealing RJ for Spida.  Holding onto Grimes like hell.   and only reluctantly would I part with OBI but then that should be one fewer unprotected pick that I would include if Ainge demands OBI.     I would be good with 2 Knicks unprotected firsts and one of (IQ/OBI) one of (Reddish McBride) plus a pick swap, and 2 of the 3 first rounders we hold from other teams.

That gives Ainge 4 firsts, (2 of the unprotected Knicks variety) the right to swap for another first, plus two young rotational players with upside.  Plus the veterans to make the money work.

That's a haul for Utah.  Basically can rebuild under the OKC model.  Anything more would be catering to Ainge's greed. 


Meanwhile the Knicks still hold onto one of their own unprotected first, the pick from the utah swap, one of the frps in the future from other teams and some youth for the next deal that comes down the road.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 22, 2022, 02:57:46 PM
Utah

Conley
Clarkson
(Mitchell)
(Beverley)
Beasley
Jar Butler
Alexander-Walker
(Boj Bogdanovic)
Paschall
Gay
Vanderbilt
Whiteside
+ 7 young unprovens
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 22, 2022, 02:58:36 PM
So they are basically building around NOBODY
Title: Duly Noted
Post by: chipstern on July 22, 2022, 03:02:03 PM
Kevin Durant Wants To Be Traded.

Why?

Who Knows.  Could he want to get away from his best bro Kyrie?  Just a thought.  Kevin hasn't said why, so just spitballing here. 

Thought he was all in love with the borough of Brooklyn, as per his snarky post-signing remarks with passing pisstakes on the Knicks and James Dolan. 

Duly noted.

Nyets paid him what, something in the neighborhood of $40 Million to take off his entire first season to rehab his injury. 

Awfully decent of them. 

Then they traded for James Harden to make him and Kyrie happy, and when that didn't work out, they did likewise by trading for Ben Simmons. 

Durant, Irving, Simmons?  Pretty good combo to make a playoffs push. 

But Kevin wants to be traded.

ONCE MORE...Not A Chance In Hell.  Kevin is NOT going to be wearing a Nyets uniform in 2022-23 and beyond: due $44-47-51-54 million through 2025-26. 

The Nyets are going to want a significant return to offload poor pouty Kevin. 

First of all, who has $44 million in tradeable assets?  Russell Westbrook?  Don't think that gets it done. 

Likewise, putting together enough talent with high enough cap matching kinda defeats the whole purpose of trading for Kevin in the first place, as you will no longer have significant talent around him, so what the fuck?  Let alone, the Nyets, understandably, want your best back: Devin Booker, Scottie Barnes, Bam Adobayo? 

So, tough titties, Kevin. 

When you're a Nyet you're a Nyet all the way, from the training camp on to you last dribbling day, when you're a Nyet, with a guaranteed four, you can't simply blow that off, and be done with the draw...

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/FantasticPracticalIsopod-size_restricted.gif)

WHEN YOU'RE A NYET YOU STAY A NYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYEEEEETTT...

Title: Re: Mitchell thoughts
Post by: chipstern on July 22, 2022, 03:13:21 PM
Quote from: Kam on July 22, 2022, 02:47:30 PM
1. What is the hurry?  No urgency for Knicks to get this deal done before the season - is there?     Everything I've read and heard is that Ainge wants to play the lottery odds, not be a potential play-in team with Mitchell.  So he is motivated to make a deal.   Who are we bidding against?  Nobody can offer Ainge unprotected Knicks first round picks (historically very juicy) except the Knicks at this point.    Good luck finding your next building block with a new contract eligible Tyler Herro and bunch of Miami Heat first rounders in the mid 20s.

2.  Flowing from the first thought, by not making a deal before the season we get to see how the veterans look with a top 15 point guard running the show.   Randle's turnovers and assists will decrease, but possessions should end in fewer turnovers overall.   I predict Randle will look a lot better.

3. Flowing from the second thought, if Randle looks better then our trade package assets get more interesting.  We may ultimately give up less the longer we wait. Or if Utah down't want Randle we can get more by waiting to trade him elsewhere when his value is higher.  Let Brunson see what he can do for Evan and Julius.

4. I only want to part with players playing in Mitchells minutes.... IQ would hurt to lose but I would understand. Ditto McBride, DRose, the rights to Jokubitis etc.

5. Not dealing RJ for Spida.  Holding onto Grimes like hell.   and only reluctantly would I part with OBI but then that should be one fewer unprotected pick that I would include if Ainge demands OBI.     I would be good with 2 Knicks unprotected firsts and one of (IQ/OBI) one of (Reddish McBride) plus a pick swap, and 2 of the 3 first rounders we hold from other teams.

That gives Ainge 4 firsts, (2 of the unprotected Knicks variety) the right to swap for another first, plus two young rotational players with upside.  Plus the veterans to make the money work.

That's a haul for Utah.  Basically can rebuild under the OKC model.  Anything more would be catering to Ainge's greed. 


Meanwhile the Knicks still hold onto one of their own unprotected first, the pick from the utah swap, one of the frps in the future from other teams and some youth for the next deal that comes down the road.

Thoughtful synopsis. 

Yes, IQ would be redundant with Donovann Mitchell on board.  Yes that would hurt.  Deuce, would sting for me, but again, DM takes his minutes. 

Julius might very well be part of a deal to make the numbers work.  Likewise Evan. 

But fuck Danny Ainge vis a vis Obi Toppin. No way.  And I feel that strongly about Quentin and RJ as well. 

The idea is to empower our youth, not gut the team. 

Agree that the Knicks simply sit tight.  Let Ainge sweat it out.  WHO IS GOING TO OFFER MORE THAN THE KNICKS?  Or CAN?  We should rush into it because Ainge wants to work more deals?  Sorry, Weasel. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 22, 2022, 05:58:02 PM
These az-o-lays with these headlines.....


https://hoopshype.com/2022/07/22/lebron-james-has-seen-enough-has-no-interest-in-another-year-with-russell-westbrook-as-teammate/
Title: My summary
Post by: carlos123 on July 22, 2022, 10:02:00 PM
FUCK
DANNY
AINGE

GO FLEECE SOMEONE ELSE!

Then, you can come back with something reasonable.

(https://c.tenor.com/sSPu5OINxBYAAAAC/danny-ainge.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 23, 2022, 12:24:03 PM
New deal discussed

4 number ones including our '23 and unprotected Dallas pick
Miles McBride
Evan Fournier
Cam Reddish

for...

Donovan Mitchell
Title: Ian Beagly
Post by: chipstern on July 23, 2022, 02:19:13 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 23, 2022, 12:24:03 PM
New deal discussed

4 number ones including our '23 and unprotected Dallas pick
Miles McBride
Evan Fournier
Cam Reddish

for...

Donovan Mitchell

NOT DISCUSSED...Proposed. 

This trade is a suggestion flolated on line by beat writer Ian Begley. 

Not based on some actual "this just in" intelligence. 

PS: As far as Bagley's phantasy, makes a certain amount of sense, but I would be hesitant to include Reddish if I were laying out such a magic carpet of draft assets.  I guess the reasoning is we still have the 6'8" Feron Hunt, and I like him, but the 6'8" Cam Reddish is another level of talent, good defender, excellent FT shooter, and his length and athleticism gives us coverage at the 3-2-4 spots, and while RJ and Grimes at the 3 spot is doable, leaves us precariously a little on the smallish side, what with a pair of 6'1" jockeys in the back court, and the 6'3" IQ and Rose in reserve.  Not beyond the realm of reason, I mean, Cleveland has Garland and Sexton at 6'1", and Rubio at 6'2", with Okoro at 6'5", LaVert at 6'6" and Ossman at 6'7" as their big wings, so not that different from our own 'projected' back court.  Anyway...another day, another wet dream. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 23, 2022, 02:36:23 PM
Still...nothing there for Ainge to build around
Title: Building The Presti Way
Post by: chipstern on July 23, 2022, 04:12:29 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 23, 2022, 02:36:23 PM
Still...nothing there for Ainge to build around

At the end of the day, it is all about the draft assets.

As per the Sam Presti Model

https://www.si.com/nba/thunder/draft-coverage/a-comprehensive-guide-to-the-thunders-future-draft-picks (https://www.si.com/nba/thunder/draft-coverage/a-comprehensive-guide-to-the-thunders-future-draft-picks)

Including the Thunder's own picks, Sam Presti has stockpiled 19 first rounders and 19 second rounders through 2029. 

Clearly, the Knicks Brock Aller & Scott Perry, who have nurtured a very friendly Trader Vic relationship with Presti [going back to Perry's Carmelo Anthony exchange, and including the #32 for #34/#36 exchange in 2021 which netted the Knicks point guards Jokubaitis & McBride, with the Thunder reeling in Villinova PF Jeremiah Robinson-Earl, and the Byzantine 2022 exchanges which got us four #1 picks, one of the which was directed towards Charlotte for Duren, who was in turn sent to Detroit to incentivize taking Kemba, Nerlens and Alec's salaries off of our cap in pursuit of Brunson & Hartenstein and re-upping Mitchell & Jericho] and derive considerable inspiration from TRADER SAM PRESTI as well in terms of a slow build forward, vis a vis purposeful deployment of cap space and stockpiling of draft picks. 

Remains to be seen whom amongst the veterans Ainge has brought in from the Minny deal is re-directed, but I do believe he is not above going into Partial Tank Mode while trying to offlad most of the players he got from Minny. 

PG Mike Conley will be 35 in October, and is owed $22 & 24 million through 2024, something worth reflecting on amongst those who found the Knicks offer to the 26 year old Brunson excessive. 

The contracts of Bojan Bogdanovic [$19.5] and Patrick Beverley [$13] expire in the summer of 2023. 

Malik Beasley will be 26 this fall, and is due $15.5 with a team option for 2023-2024. 

Jordan Clarkson just turned 30, is due $13 this season, with a player option for $14 in 2023-24.

Rudy Gay will be 36 in August, is due $6 this season with a player otpion for $6 in 2023-24.

The only keepers I can discern for the Jazz in the way of players from the trade are 6'9" PF Jartred Vanderbilt [23 years old], who is due $4.3 & 4.6 over the next two seasons, rookie center Walker Kessler, while sophomore Argentinian guard Leandro Balmoro [who was drafted by the Knicks, and forwarded to Minny in the machinations which led to us selecting Quickley] seems a little dicey. 

So, in looking at all of this mishegas, Ainge has a lot of work to do. 

Tell you what, with all of the maneuvering, if we were to take back one of Ainge's vets in some Mitchell transaction, I would not look down my nose at the expiring contract of the 33 year old Patrick Beverley if Rose is out of here.  He's a dog. Or Bogdonavich, who would ease the pain of losing Reddish, well...somewhat.  He can flat out shoot. 

Anyway, I am pleased to see the Knicks are taking their own sweet time on this deal, and I have made my peace with the fact that something is going to happen. 
Title: Thunder
Post by: chipstern on July 23, 2022, 05:07:48 PM
Presti has reeled in some very nice YOUNG pieces, such as burgeoning star, the 6'6" 24 year old PG Shai Gilgeous-Alexander from the Paul George Haul, and the supremely gifted 19 year old 6'8" combo guard Josh Giddey; a host of long, rangy [well, THIN as fuck] stretch 5/4 types such as 7'1" Chet Holmgren, 7'0" Aleksej Pokusevski, 6'10" Ousmane Dieng, the aforementioned 6'9" Villinova PF Jeremiah Robinson-Earl, big PGs Theo Maledon and Tre Mann...

All young, Young, YOUNG, and Well HUNG. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on July 23, 2022, 05:15:36 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 23, 2022, 12:24:03 PM
New deal discussed

4 number ones including our '23 and unprotected Dallas pick
Miles McBride
Evan Fournier
Cam Reddish

for...

Donovan Mitchell

Just in terms of personnel?

To get DM and still keep RJ, OBI, IQ and Grimes?

Fuck yeah.

Which is what makes it such a nice fantasy.
Title: And ROSE
Post by: chipstern on July 23, 2022, 06:17:55 PM
Quote from: elephant on July 23, 2022, 05:15:36 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 23, 2022, 12:24:03 PM
New deal discussed

4 number ones including our '23 and unprotected Dallas pick
Miles McBride
Evan Fournier
Cam Reddish

for...

Donovan Mitchell

Just in terms of personnel?

To get DM and still keep RJ, OBI, IQ and Grimes?

Fuck yeah.

Which is what makes it such a nice fantasy.

Agreed...grudgingly, as I have a thing for Cam Reddish, and Deuce, but...still...RJ & Grimes, Obi...one more year of ROSE.  Mitchell kind of cancels Deuce's floor time, as does IQ, and Feron Hunt might be ready to contribute at SF, and would surely be happier getting Obi minutes than Cam would.   

But, YES, that is something more along the lines of a fair deal, as Fournier ain't chopped liver [and only two years left on his contract], Cam is only 22, Deuce is only 21 and four #1 picks still qualifies as a significant haul in these here parts. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 24, 2022, 02:14:30 PM
I hope that is as high as our front office will contemplate going and that Ainge turns them down.

If Danny wants to rebuild he can do it around Donavan who after all is only 25 years old.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 24, 2022, 04:07:09 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 24, 2022, 02:14:30 PM
I hope that is as high as our front office will contemplate going and that Ainge turns them down.

If Danny wants to rebuild he can do it around Donavan who after all is only 25 years old.

Word.

Think Thibs would think about givng minutes to Obi at SF next to Julius and MItchell?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 24, 2022, 04:07:21 PM
Nets

Wiggin and Poole to go with Simmons and whatever Nets can get for Kyrie (THT plus?)

Send KD and Kyrie  out - get it done already

Shame - the focus now will be most on not getting Durant to where he wants to go (PHX, GS) rather than on the best haul for Tsai's own team
Title: Summer In The City
Post by: chipstern on July 25, 2022, 03:09:19 PM
(https://miro.medium.com/max/800/1*qtJ68be-xn4NX1EPJ4_r4A.gif)

May God bless and keep you always, May your wishes all come true, May you always do for others And let others do for you. May you build a ladder to the stars And climb on every rung, May you stay forever young.

Bob Dylan

(https://d1l5jyrrh5eluf.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/clyde.jpeg)

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on July 25, 2022, 04:20:03 PM
The sticking point on the player side of the deal is probably the hold up.

The Jazz are likely asking for the moon. But realistically the Knicks can't trade their two best young players outside RJ (OBI and Grimes) in the same trade.

If you send Grimes to Utah, then Ainge can't have OBI and IQ
If you send OBI and IQ to Utah, then Ainge can't have Grimes


Ainge probably wants Grimes the most.  He has the most years left on his rookie deal and he can fit in with his shooting and defense.



---


If Ainge has a real hard-on for Grimes then I would construct a deal where we give up fewer of our own unprotected assets.


Evan+Rose+Grimes+Deuce
2 Unprotected FRPs
2 of our 3 FRPs from other teams.


Ainge gets a very good (more cost effective than Herro, and he plays D) young player, 2 very juicy unprotected picks, and 2 other protected picks.


If he wants more picks then i'm pulling back Grimes.  That's how it works.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 25, 2022, 05:39:05 PM
Sam Quinn  SamQuinnCBS
Screw it, here are my predictions
Kevin Durant for Jaylen Brown, Derrick White, two unprotected picks and one swap.
Kyrie Irving and Buddy Hield to the Lakers, Russell Westbrook and the 2029 1st to Indiana, Talen Horton Tucker, the 2027 first and two 2nds to Brooklyn
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 25, 2022, 05:44:05 PM
The sticking point on the player side of the deal is probably the hold up.

The Jazz are likely asking for the moon. But realistically the Knicks can't trade their two best young players outside RJ,  meaning OBI and Grimes, in the same trade.

If you send Grimes to Utah, then Ainge cant have OBI and IQ
If you send OBI and IQ to Utah, then Ainge cant have Grimes


Ainge probably wants Grimes the most.  He has the most years left on his rookie deal and he can fit in with his shooting and defense.




Good post.

Weekend host on FAN seems to think Ainge just plays the waiting game.  I tend to agree as there arent other moves waiting for Jazz to make - so no real rush.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 25, 2022, 05:49:21 PM
Evanplus Rose plus Grimes plus Deuce
2 Unprotected FRPs
2 of our 3 FRPs from other teams

Fair

But I think he wants more picks to move in other deals.
Title: Summer In The City, THE CONTINUING SAGA
Post by: chipstern on July 25, 2022, 05:52:17 PM
Quote from: Kam on July 25, 2022, 04:20:03 PM
The sticking point on the player side of the deal is probably the hold up.

The Jazz are likely asking for the moon. But realistically the Knicks can't trade their two best young players outside RJ (OBI and Grimes) in the same trade.

If you send Grimes to Utah, then Ainge can't have OBI and IQ
If you send OBI and IQ to Utah, then Ainge can't have Grimes


Ainge probably wants Grimes the most.  He has the most years left on his rookie deal and he can fit in with his shooting and defense.



---


If Ainge has a real hard-on for Grimes then I would construct a deal where we give up fewer of our own unprotected assets.


Evan+Rose+Grimes+Deuce
2 Unprotected FRPs
2 of our 3 FRPs from other teams.


Ainge gets a very good (more cost effective than Herro, and he plays D) young player, 2 very juicy unprotected picks, and 2 other protected picks.


If he wants more picks then i'm pulling back Grimes.  That's how it works.

Yup. 

We have the '6'4" combo guard Rokas Jokubaitis [our #34 pick in 2021] stashed in Spain, and he could come over to be worked in behind Brunson in 2023-24.  His issue for 2022-23 was playing time in a Knicks rotation.  Knicks POV was not to rush Rokas, and give him another year to ripen on the vine. 

OBIVOUSLY, if the Knicks pull off the trade you propope, Kamiar, Mitchell joins Brunson and Quickley in a Triage of Point Guard/Combo Guard depth.  ALL THREE ARE CAPABLE OF PLAYING EFFECTVELY BOTH ON AND OFF THE BALL.  Based on last season, Mitchell is good for 26 ppg, 4 boards and 5 assists a game based on 20 shots per, while IQ is roughly 11-3-3.5 in 23 minutes, and Jalen roughly 16-4-5 during the 2021-22 regular season, though his playoff stats of 21.6-4.6-3.7 are probably closer to what we might expect, save that the lower assists numbers are more a reflection of his taking roughly 17 shots a game functioning more as a scoring option than a facilitator or second option, when he took roughly half the number of shots [9.6] during the gregular season, because Luka as the Big Dawg was hoisting 21.6 shots per game, you dig? 

I think what you propose is a fair, generous offer.  I don't think any of us is psyched about giving up Grimes.  Rose & Conley are nice trading pieces and PG platoon while the Jazz wait on Harper and McBride to develop, while Grimes steps right into Mitchell's minutes and Fournier gives them a good big SF/SG wing for two years, or more trade options. 

Not sure Ainge agrees.  In lieu of ponying up IQ or Obi in addition to Grimeds and McBride, at least another of the protected #1 picks we gleaned in this summer's draft, some of of our remaining stockpile of #2s, some pickp swapping, would constitute a good offer. 

Ainge is looking for a CRAZY OFFER. 

Brock Aller & Scott Perry & Walt Perrin [long time Jazz draft guru] are clearly not buying into the media pressure or buying into Ainge's Tradever Vic mystique. Clearly they are prepared to wait Ainge out, and let the other bidders come to the table.  Miami could offer Herro and Robinson, but not our draft capital, and Herro is due a qualifying offer next summer and he is going to want to be paid, while Robinson is due roughly $17-18-19-20, with the final year a player option, a twice the guaranteed years of Fournier, and Robinson is already 28. 

C: Robinson, Sims
PF-C: Randle, Hartenstein
SF-PF: Toppin, Hunt
SG-SF: Barrett, Reddish, Keels
PG-SG: Brunson, Mitchell, Quickley

That would consitute a pretty nice 10-man rotation, with a total of TWELVE players, including our Two-Way contracts, Hunt & Keels. 

I just did a REAL GM Scenario where I amended your trade to bring back Patrick Beverley, though he cannot be included in a trade until September 6, as he was just dealt.  Would give us a defensive stalwart on an expiring contract, more coverage at PG/SG, and a snarky competitive presence that would play well at the Garden and with Coach Thibs--PB has been a reserve PG playing 22-27 mpg over the paste four seasons. 

Anyway, just a thought.  Trade numbers work either way as a 1-for-4 [or a 2-4] with Mitchell FOR Fournier-Rose-Grimes-McBride. 

Beverley would nicely round out a 13 man rotation. 

Who would consistute 14 & 15 among our summer league, Westchester or remaining free agents?

I know Carmelo's name has been floated, with or without Beverley.  LaMarcus Aldrdige is still out there.  Blake Griffin.  Jabari Parker.  Josh Jackson. 

Given the possible 10-man rotation, and the presence of our two-way pups, Melo would actually make some sense to fill Taj's vet mentor role and to challenge Julius, Obi, Reddish, Hunt and RJ in practice.  He put up 13.3-4.2-1.0 while convertng FTs at a .830% clip and knocking down 149-397 treys in 26.0 minutes per game [.375%] which is quite respectable. 

Anyway, spitballing on a hot summer's day, with no basketball to ponder, and NFL training camp on the horizon, and your trade ruminations got me to thinking. 

More or less...

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 25, 2022, 06:04:06 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 25, 2022, 05:49:21 PM
Evanplus Rose plus Grimes plus Deuce
2 Unprotected FRPs
2 of our 3 FRPs from other teams

Fair

But I think he wants more picks to move in other deals.

Yup
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 25, 2022, 06:08:53 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 25, 2022, 05:39:05 PM
Sam Quinn  SamQuinnCBS
Screw it, here are my predictions
Kevin Durant for Jaylen Brown, Derrick White, two unprotected picks and one swap.
Kyrie Irving and Buddy Hield to the Lakers, Russell Westbrook and the 2029 1st to Indiana, Talen Horton Tucker, the 2027 first and two 2nds to Brooklyn

I think the likelihood of Sean Marks going with either of those registered charity scenarios is pretty remote. 

NO ONE is lining up to bail out the fucking Lakers.  Held AND Irving for Westbrook, THT and a single 2027 #1?  Indy has Haliburton.  Why would they want an unhappy Westbrook on the pine?  And the Nyets do Kyrie a solid for THT and a #1 FIVE fucking years in the future? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 25, 2022, 06:10:33 PM
I also think Jazz are a better TEAM after getting Herro and Robinson - and this isnt what they want

Tank City be Salt Lake for '22-3.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 25, 2022, 06:26:07 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 25, 2022, 06:10:33 PM
I also think Jazz are a better TEAM after getting Herro and Robinson - and this isnt what they want

Tank City be Salt Lake for '22-3.

Grimes is arguably a CHEAPER option in the short term, and potentially more IMPACTFUL in the short term. 

I wouldn't count Riley out for either Mitchell OR Durant, but he would have to pony up Adaboyo to make the Nyets blink, and doesn't have the draft capital to tempt the Jazz. 

TANK MODE for the Jazz? 

A distinct possibility. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 25, 2022, 08:19:58 PM
Lets hear that BEVERLEY deal if we dont get Mitchell.  Surely we use McBride in that one, no?  Any big targets after Mitchell?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 26, 2022, 04:00:37 PM
Program note - see Bronny James tonight  9:30 ESPN
Title: Well Now...
Post by: chipstern on July 27, 2022, 09:32:44 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 25, 2022, 08:19:58 PM
Lets hear that BEVERLEY deal if we dont get Mitchell.  Surely we use McBride in that one, no?  Any big targets after Mitchell?

Beverley independent of a Mitchell Deal?

My thinking was...that if Fournier, Rose, Grimes and McBride & Four #1 picks were out the door, then Beverely would constitute snarky, competitive PG depth on both sides of the ball, fitting Thibs' culture, maybe giving us a chance both to get to the playoffs AND make it out of the first round, a competitive placeholder until [presumably] Jokubaitis arrives in 2023-24.   

Brunson, Mitchell, Quickley [Beverley]
Barrett, Reddish, Hunt

HOWEVER, if we DO NOT MAKE THE MITCHELL DEAL, things will be a LITTLE CROWDED at the 1-2 & 3.   

Brunson, Rose, Quickley, McBride
Fournier, Grimes
Barrett, Reddish
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 27, 2022, 10:34:11 AM
Dont care at all about a crowd.  I want winners.

Quickley in my mind is being oversold as that.

And are you really banking on more than 30/40 or so games at 20/22 minutes per from Derrick?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 27, 2022, 10:53:07 AM
Hah - Derek Fisher 

In film sessions, sources say it was customary for Cambage to call out teammates, accusing them of looking her off and not targeting her. Teammates would counter that shes not sealing in the post and seldom gets back on defense when a turnover occurs. It was a conundrum that went unresolved. One ongoing team grievance is the clubs practice location. The Sparks practice at Jump Beyond Sports complex the majority of the season, and its been described as the worst practice facility in the league, sources say. Fisher and staff picked this location prior to the season to the dismay of most of the players, sources say.  An AAU team wouldnt want to play there, one player said.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 27, 2022, 10:58:19 AM
Vanessa dont have 'nough bucks


A federal judge has ruled to combine similar lawsuits filed against Los Angeles County by Vanessa Bryant and an Orange County man whose wife and daughter were among nine people, including Kobe Bryant and daughter Gianna, killed in a January 2020 helicopter crash. The lawsuits, filed by Vanessa Bryant and Christopher Chester, both allege that the L.A. County sherrifs and fire departments, among other defendants, violated their 14th Amendment rights after county employees shared photos of the crash scene in Calabasas.



Sick.
Title: Re: Well Now...
Post by: facilitatorn on July 27, 2022, 03:03:40 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 27, 2022, 09:32:44 AM

if we DO NOT MAKE THE MITCHELL DEAL, things will be a LITTLE CROWDED at the 1-2 & 3.   

Brunson, Rose, Quickley, McBride
Fournier, Grimes
Barrett, Reddish

McBride needs to develop further, but the use of Rose and Quickley is an interesting dilemma.

Given a full camp and a summer to prep, I expect that Reddish will beat out Fournier for a starting spot, especially with the length and speed you need around Brunson to protect him defensively.

As a second shift on the perimeter, I am back and forth on whether Thibs would play Quickley, Rose, and Grimes or Quickley, Grimes, and Fournier. I think the first set would be better since Rose shoots as well as Evan and does so much more besides.

Brunson Rose McBride
RJ Quickley
Reddish Grimes Fournier
Randle Obi
Mitch Isaiah Jericho

We still have the exception left for someone who plays the 2-3-4 as a depth piece.
Title: Re: Well Now...
Post by: chipstern on July 27, 2022, 04:46:47 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 27, 2022, 03:03:40 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 27, 2022, 09:32:44 AM

if we DO NOT MAKE THE MITCHELL DEAL, things will be a LITTLE CROWDED at the 1-2 & 3.   

Brunson, Rose, Quickley, McBride
Fournier, Grimes
Barrett, Reddish

McBride needs to develop further, but the use of Rose and Quickley is an interesting dilemma.

Given a full camp and a summer to prep, I expect that Reddish will beat out Fournier for a starting spot, especially with the length and speed you need around Brunson to protect him defensively.

As a second shift on the perimeter, I am back and forth on whether Thibs would play Quickley, Rose, and Grimes or Quickley, Grimes, and Fournier. I think the first set would be better since Rose shoots as well as Evan and does so much more besides.

Brunson Rose McBride
RJ Quickley
Reddish Grimes Fournier
Randle Obi
Mitch Isaiah Jericho

We still have the exception left for someone who plays the 2-3-4 as a depth piece.

Robinson, Randle, Reddish, Barrett, Brunson

Hartenstein, Toppin, Fournier, Grimes, Quickley/Rose/McBride

Thibs has made it clear to Reddish that he will be given nothing.

He is a good defender.

Cam needs to hang his hat on that, much as Grimes did.  Let Cam duke it out with Fournier,  and IQ fight off Rose and McBride
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 27, 2022, 04:59:12 PM
Dude also shoots it a bit when he knows where the passes are coming from and he can score off cuts. My feeling is he stops Fournier more than Fournier stops him in camp and practice while being just as good moving the ball. The trick is for Cam to stay healthy. Fingers crossed on that.

I expect Rose to be our best per-minute guard once again for the third year running and once again for one reason or another not to play that many minutes.

Competition is good especially if it determines roles more than front office meddling.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 27, 2022, 05:01:35 PM
Doesn't a healthy Rose get his spot back?

One of our true wild cards.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 27, 2022, 05:35:52 PM
He was very deferential to Kemba. I think it is likely that Rose plays well and stays available if he is used judiciously. A regular second unit role with some scheduled rests would be ideal. It is part of why I think Fournier becomes situational or plays elsewhere. One alternative is that Rose unlocks him and he becomes a sixth man of the year candidate along with Obi.

A second line of Rose, Grimes, Fournier, Toppin, and Hartenstein would be several headaches simultaneously without giving away that much defensively. To push it even more deal in IQ.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 27, 2022, 05:53:46 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 27, 2022, 05:35:52 PM
He was very deferential to Kemba. I think it is likely that Rose plays well and stays available if he is used judiciously. A regular second unit role with some scheduled rests would be ideal. It is part of why I think Fournier becomes situational or plays elsewhere. One alternative is that Rose unlocks him and he becomes a sixth man of the year candidate along with Obi.

A second line of Rose, Grimes, Fournier, Toppin, and Hartenstein would be several headaches simultaneously without giving away that much defensively. To push it even more deal in IQ.

Yup
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 27, 2022, 06:36:58 PM
Big trade in the works


https://www.foxnews.com/sports/us-offers-substantial-proposal-bring-brittney-griner-paul-whelan-home-from-russia
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 27, 2022, 06:39:21 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 27, 2022, 05:53:46 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 27, 2022, 05:35:52 PM
He was very deferential to Kemba. I think it is likely that Rose plays well and stays available if he is used judiciously. A regular second unit role with some scheduled rests would be ideal. It is part of why I think Fournier becomes situational or plays elsewhere. One alternative is that Rose unlocks him and he becomes a sixth man of the year candidate along with Obi.

A second line of Rose, Grimes, Fournier, Toppin, and Hartenstein would be several headaches simultaneously without giving away that much defensively. To push it even more deal in IQ.

Yup

Fournier is the starter.  Just one guy can supplant him.  If that happens he gets second unit (18) minutes 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 27, 2022, 06:50:54 PM
I would not hate a Mitch/Hartenstein Randle/Obi RJ/Reddish Grimes/Fournier Brunson/Rose situation, though in that case I would bet on IQ to beat out either Fournier or Rose.

I would rather play with this roster than break it up over much, but the front office rarely listens to me.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 27, 2022, 07:27:28 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 27, 2022, 06:36:58 PM
Big trade in the works


https://www.foxnews.com/sports/us-offers-substantial-proposal-bring-brittney-griner-paul-whelan-home-from-russia

Draft picks involved?
Title: Re: Well Now...
Post by: elephant on July 27, 2022, 10:35:04 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 27, 2022, 03:03:40 PM

Given a full camp and a summer to prep, I expect that Reddish will beat out Fournier for a starting spot, especially with the length and speed you need around Brunson to protect him defensively.


I mean....I suppose it's possible.

Fournier has serious skills. I'd love for Reddish to play great, but the way you and Chip talk about sounds like wishful thinking.

Just what has he done in his NBA career so far?

I'm drawn much more to Grimes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 27, 2022, 11:27:22 PM
Hawks punted on Reddish

Tells a tale

Obvious he is an athlete - in the Hunt mold.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 28, 2022, 12:04:26 AM
Both Hunt and Reddish have some jelly for their size. That is the lifeblood of the NBA these days.

Cam has averaged double figures for his career so far. He is a good ball thief and can bring a ton of energy. On a per minute basis he is already as effective at twenty two as Fournier was at any point in his prime. If he cannot put it together that would suck. If he can, he should be better than Fournier in almost every respect.

Both guys should motivate and push one another to be better versions of themselves than any previously seen.

Title: Coach and the tale
Post by: carlos123 on July 28, 2022, 12:54:01 AM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on July 27, 2022, 11:27:22 PM
Hawks punted on Reddish

Tells a tale

Unfortunately, that tale is the only thing coach Thibs will probably look at.

Too busy just playing the vets.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 28, 2022, 08:10:48 AM
Fournier double the assists of Reddish.  More accurate. Ore points per....

Cam is just getting started?  Sure.  I look forward to possible improvement. 

Is Fournier...off a down year (PER of 12)...to continue downward?  We shall see.  But its GRIMES takes those minutes.

Title: My God
Post by: chipstern on July 28, 2022, 09:04:37 AM
Phantasy 3 way on Daily Knicks between Jazz, Lakers, Knicks.

Psychotic.

Knicks get Donovan, Bogdonavic, Horton Tucker and Lakers' 2027 #1.

Jazz get Toppin, Reddish, five Knicks #1s and Westbrook.

Lakers get Randle and Rose.

I mean, damn.  Dumber than a bag of hammers. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 28, 2022, 10:18:20 AM
Some elements of that deal not so bad.

Opening minutes for Quickley, for instance.  Sims as well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 28, 2022, 10:23:55 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 28, 2022, 10:18:20 AM
Some elements of that deal not so bad.

Opening minutes for Quickley, for instance.  Sims as well.

Bullshit.

Why, because we get  all world Tucker Horton?

Randle, Toppin, Reddish?  Seriously?

A team of guards?   No size
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on July 28, 2022, 12:19:41 PM
Toppin and Randle should not be dealt, I hate to lose Toppin but we got to keep one of them.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 28, 2022, 03:11:51 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 28, 2022, 10:23:55 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 28, 2022, 10:18:20 AM
Some elements of that deal not so bad.

Opening minutes for Quickley, for instance.  Sims as well.

Bullshit.

Why, because we get  all world Tucker Horton?

 
 


No

Not due  to that at all

(logically speaking now)

Rose departure lands Quickley more minutes.  Sims gets minutes behind Mitch that Hartenstein lined  up for (of course another big might then come in)

FTR - I continue to not wish to deal Toppin.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 28, 2022, 03:55:31 PM
Variable there is that Grimes has been showing some PG chops.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 28, 2022, 04:36:10 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 28, 2022, 03:11:51 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 28, 2022, 10:23:55 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 28, 2022, 10:18:20 AM
Some elements of that deal not so bad.

Opening minutes for Quickley, for instance.  Sims as well.

Bullshit.

Why, because we get  all world Tucker Horton?

 
 


No

Not due  to that at all

(logically speaking now)

Rose departure lands Quickley more minutes.  Sims gets minutes behind Mitch that Hartenstein lined  up for (of course another big might then come in)

FTR - I continue to not wish to deal Toppin.

This blogger had us trading our entire set of bigs.

Toppin?

How about Reddish AND Randle?

This "proposal" is the gold standard in dumbass. 

Plus FIVE #1 Picks?

Fuck Danny Ainge. And this blogger.

Rose is going to play the role of Taj to Quickey. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 28, 2022, 04:40:29 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 28, 2022, 03:55:31 PM
Variable there is that Grimes has been showing some PG chops.

Yup

Ergo, God Bless Donovan Mitchell, but fuck Danny Ainge and the pursuit of shiny objects.

I'd rather take our two #1s and potentially another pair of protected #1s in the summer of 2023 and package them to move up in the draft or revisit trade targets next summer
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 28, 2022, 04:59:59 PM
Reddish isnt a big

He is also a spare part
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 28, 2022, 05:03:17 PM
i would rather take our two number 1s and potentially another pair of protected number 1s in the summer of 2023 and package them to move up in the draft or revisit trade targets next summer


yeah.......

never seems to happen

Opportunities at guys like Mitchell dont come around often.  And yes, you can despise Ainge for knowing this and attempting to exploit it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 28, 2022, 05:18:00 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 28, 2022, 04:59:59 PM
Reddish isnt a big

He is also a spare part

Reddish is 6'8"

JR and Obi are 6'9"
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 28, 2022, 05:20:32 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 28, 2022, 05:03:17 PM
i would rather take our two number 1s and potentially another pair of protected number 1s in the summer of 2023 and package them to move up in the draft or revisit trade targets next summer


yeah.......

never seems to happen

Opportunities at guys like Mitchell dont come around often.  And yes, you can despise Ainge for knowing this and attempting to exploit it.

Melo 2.1

DM is a talent, a special talent.

The price is WAY TOO HIGH.

FUCK DANNY AINGE.

I'm content to nurture GRIMES.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 28, 2022, 05:23:09 PM
Reddish is a 3. Randle and Toppin are 4s. It is who you can guard that sets the position.

If we had not just invested in Brunson, I would be more interested in Mitchell. I am doubtful you can have an effective top lineup with those two at the guards.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 28, 2022, 05:24:44 PM
JR and Obi are 6  9


As was Magic Johnson
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 28, 2022, 05:26:05 PM
The price is WAY TOO HIGH.

FUCK DANNY AINGE.

I am content to nurture GRIMES


Cool.

But you will then have to put up with more Fournier minutes
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 28, 2022, 05:38:57 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 28, 2022, 05:26:05 PM
The price is WAY TOO HIGH.

FUCK DANNY AINGE.

I am content to nurture GRIMES


Cool.

But you will then have to put up with more Fournier minutes

I'm fine with Fournier, Reddish, RJ and Grimes duking it out for minutes at the 2 & 3.

Also, Reddish and Fournier have trade value independent of Donovan Mitchell. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 28, 2022, 08:06:00 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 28, 2022, 05:38:57 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 28, 2022, 05:26:05 PM
The price is WAY TOO HIGH.

FUCK DANNY AINGE.

I am content to nurture GRIMES


Cool.

But you will then have to put up with more Fournier minutes

I'm fine with Fournier, Reddish, RJ and Grimes duking it out for minutes at the 2 & 3.



Good.  That is what you have

Alternatives are

Quickley/Rose playing some 2
Grimes playing some 1.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 28, 2022, 08:10:07 PM


Also, Reddish and Fournier have trade value independent of Donovan Mitchell.



- Right.

But making sense only for the right player
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 28, 2022, 09:45:51 PM
Here is a move I would consider proposing to Charlotte,

Randle and Rose for Hayward and Washington and a protected first.

Mitch Hartenstein Sims
Obi PJ
RJ Reddish Hayward
Grimes Fournier
Brunson Quickley McBride

And we would still have an exception left to do something at the margins.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 28, 2022, 10:09:55 PM
Hornet run off 5 of 7 wins, then 8 of 9, then 10 of 13

All with Hayward last year

Not dealing him if I am Brentwood Mitch
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 29, 2022, 12:19:58 AM
I have said I am good with standing pat. That makes more sense for us than going after Mitchell at this point.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on July 29, 2022, 08:19:50 AM
I'd stay pat if only to show Ainge punk ass he is not the father of robbing teams.  I love Mitch game and would trade some of the youngins and picks but to me five is enough, with the addition of Randle,Quik or Grimes,  Thats the extent I am going and I don't believe Ainge gets a better deal.  Maybe by the deadline when teams are jockeying for playoff positioning.  Grimes look prime to take the next step. Quik already showed he has game and Obi is a young Amare just waiting for the right point guard to set him up.  I'd really be content to see what we got this year.  The fucking crazy part is Donovan should be on the roster already.  Fuking bannaniz
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 29, 2022, 09:13:26 AM
Good post, JaqD 

Need two sides - well actually three for this offer

1 - salary match
2 - young player to help start the Utah rebuild
3 - bushel of picks Ainge thinks Mitchell is worth.

1 - you would think would be Fornier
2 - Grimes, Toppin or Quickley, maybe sprinkle in Sims
3 - 5, 6, 8???  How much protection?

Not sure there has been a negotiation.  Just a price set by Danny and Knicks ignoring.

Ainge wont bid it down until he gets into it with other teams  - so could take a while before you get a whittled down version we'd all love to see.
Title: Oy Vey
Post by: chipstern on July 29, 2022, 09:35:41 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 28, 2022, 09:45:51 PM
Here is a move I would consider proposing to Charlotte,

Randle and Rose for Hayward and Washington and a protected first.

Mitch Hartenstein Sims
Obi PJ
RJ Reddish Hayward
Grimes Fournier
Brunson Quickley McBride

And we would still have an exception left to do something at the margins.

Gordon Hayward has played 52, 44, 49 games the past three seasons.  Due $30, $31 million over the next two seasons. 

But we're upset about Fournier's contract.

(https://c.tenor.com/A6FeDOnPQfYAAAAM/oy-vey-lucille-ball.gif) 

Swell idea.

Title: Re: Oy Vey
Post by: chipstern on July 29, 2022, 10:18:52 AM
Quote from: chipstern on July 29, 2022, 09:35:41 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 28, 2022, 09:45:51 PM
Here is a move I would consider proposing to Charlotte,

Randle and Rose for Hayward and Washington and a protected first.

Mitch Hartenstein Sims
Obi PJ
RJ Reddish Hayward
Grimes Fournier
Brunson Quickley McBride

And we would still have an exception left to do something at the margins.

Gordon Hayward has played 52, 44, 49 games the past three seasons.  Due $30, $31 million over the next two seasons. 

But we're upset about Fournier's contract.

(https://c.tenor.com/A6FeDOnPQfYAAAAM/oy-vey-lucille-ball.gif) 

Swell idea.

PS: I like PJ Washington
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 29, 2022, 11:09:45 AM
With salaries where they are at these days, Fournier's is not a bad contract.  It is especially good in that we have a team option for year three which we can pick up and use in a deal - if available.

(NOW - of course for the 18-19 mil we do not want a repeat of the 12 PER performance - I get that.  I do think thee FT percentage was an outlier to his career - and factored into the lower PER  - should get back closer to 80+%)
Title: Focus Vs. Fuckus
Post by: chipstern on July 29, 2022, 01:07:06 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 29, 2022, 11:09:45 AM
With salaries where they are at these days, Fournier's is not a bad contract.  It is especially good in that we have a team option for year three which we can pick up and use in a deal - if available.

(NOW - of course for the 18-19 mil we do not want a repeat of the 12 PER performance - I get that.  I do think thee FT percentage was an outlier to his career - and factored into the lower PER  - should get back closer to 80+%)

Fan PRESSURE is a terrible reason to make a trade.

God, but I hate a dummy

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/RegalQualifiedAnt-size_restricted.gif)

Having no reliable, real rudder at PG, first with a ball dominant Kemba, then a gimpy Rose, and finally a game but mismatched Burks, we saw poor starts from RJ and IQ, wild inconsistency from Julius and Evan.  Things never quite meshed. 

I thought [well, hoped, for sure] that we were getting the Evan Fournier of the French Olympic team, who was a pretty dynamic performer. 

The CHEMISTRY on our team in 2021-22 was substantially undermined compared to the 2020-21 team, ironically enough, by cutting Theo Pinson loose, whose contribution was one of spirit as much as anything, which he went to do with significant impact for the Dallas Mavericks.  Reggie Bullock for Fournier was a wash in terms of talent, and while Fournier was a more versatile offensive creator off the bounce, we certainly missed Bullock's D, though he was not particularly adept offensively at anything other than catch and shoot, which in a bake off between Evan and Reggie was pretty much a wash.  And while Dawg never tires of mocking on Elfrid Payton, and his deficiencies were many and manifest, he could defend and get to the rack: some of Julius diminuition in terms of stats and consistency, stem from the lack of chemistry he rolled with in 2020-21 with Reggie and Elfrid. 

Again, I love Donovan Mitchell, but I think the steady beat of the drums in favor of going all in on bringing him to NY is a very bad idea. 

Ainge is looking to max out any deal, as well he might, but I really respect Grimes [his size and strength, his defense and his nascent playmaking skills, let alone how he can shoot when in the moment]; I feel like RJ, Quickley and Toppin's heads are in a good place coming off of how they ended up last season. 

And the steady chorus of negativity towards Randle.  He brought a lot of that on himself, but I think running him out of town on a rail is lame.  I expect him to come into training camp psyched as a MF. 

The ripple effect of having Brunson as a clear cut leader coming into camp, the return of Rose, and the stability of having most of the key pieces, both established  plus up and coming back from last year, betokens a level of chemistry that I am surely wont to disrupt. 

Again, regarding Mitchell, he is a great talent, and you have to give to get, but Ainge looks at the Knicks and sees all day suckers, much as he did with Billy King and the Nets, much as Masai Ujiri did in both the Anthony and Barganani transactions. 

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/PlaintiveBlissfulBumblebee-max-1mb.gif)

I am quite pleased that the Knicks have remained prudent and patient, and did not fold up like a cheap suitcase for Ainge's BS. 

Nary a peep out of Thibs this whole while, but I suspect that signing of Brunson and Hartenstein, the return of Mitchell Robinson and Rose, and his clear emotional/spiritual investment in RJ and Julius, let alone Grimes, IQ and Toppin, is such that I'm not feelng a sense of urgency by Thibs to break it all up and go back to square one.  We have depth and character and talent from top to bottom.  Enough to get us into the TOP 6 of the East.  Well, that might be a bit bold, but for me the next step is consistency and competitive focus.   

(https://c.tenor.com/QHRbr9jZBKAAAAAC/dunce-dope.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 29, 2022, 02:16:17 PM
The ripple effect of having Brunson as a clear cut leader coming into camp, the return of Rose, and the stability of having most of the key pieces, both established  plus up and coming back from last year, betokens a level of chemistry that I am surely wont to disrupt.


Adding Mitchell wont allow Brunson to lead.


Ok, I can believe that.
Title: Re: Oy Vey
Post by: facilitatorn on July 29, 2022, 04:24:24 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 29, 2022, 10:18:52 AM
Quote from: chipstern on July 29, 2022, 09:35:41 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 28, 2022, 09:45:51 PM
Here is a move I would consider proposing to Charlotte,

Randle and Rose for Hayward and Washington and a protected first.

Mitch Hartenstein Sims
Obi PJ
RJ Reddish Hayward
Grimes Fournier
Brunson Quickley McBride

And we would still have an exception left to do something at the margins.

Gordon Hayward has played 52, 44, 49 games the past three seasons.  Due $30, $31 million over the next two seasons. 

But we're upset about Fournier's contract.

(https://c.tenor.com/A6FeDOnPQfYAAAAM/oy-vey-lucille-ball.gif) 

Swell idea.

PS: I like PJ Washington

Hayward may or may not be great for us, but he is off the books two years ahead of Randle. Washington makes a cheaper, more manageable, productive replacement.
Title: Re: Oy Vey
Post by: chipstern on July 29, 2022, 05:01:43 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 29, 2022, 04:24:24 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 29, 2022, 10:18:52 AM
Quote from: chipstern on July 29, 2022, 09:35:41 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 28, 2022, 09:45:51 PM
Here is a move I would consider proposing to Charlotte,

Randle and Rose for Hayward and Washington and a protected first.

Mitch Hartenstein Sims
Obi PJ
RJ Reddish Hayward
Grimes Fournier
Brunson Quickley McBride

And we would still have an exception left to do something at the margins.

Gordon Hayward has played 52, 44, 49 games the past three seasons.  Due $30, $31 million over the next two seasons. 

But we're upset about Fournier's contract.

(https://c.tenor.com/A6FeDOnPQfYAAAAM/oy-vey-lucille-ball.gif) 

Swell idea.

PS: I like PJ Washington

Hayward may or may not be great for us, but he is off the books two years ahead of Randle. Washington makes a cheaper, more manageable, productive replacement.

So
Fucking
What
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 29, 2022, 05:41:36 PM
Dont see any reason Hayward wont play well.  For us or the Hornets.
Title: Re: Focus Vs. Fuckus
Post by: elephant on July 29, 2022, 05:48:43 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 29, 2022, 01:07:06 PM
Nary a peep out of Thibs this whole while, but I suspect that signing of Brunson and Hartenstein, the return of Mitchell Robinson and Rose, and his clear emotional/spiritual investment in RJ and Julius, let alone Grimes, IQ and Toppin, is such that I'm not feelng a sense of urgency by Thibs to break it all up and go back to square one.  We have depth and character and talent from top to bottom.  Enough to get us into the TOP 6 of the East.  Well, that might be a bit bold, but for me the next step is consistency and competitive focus.   


I'm down with most of this, save for the fact that Thibs holds some real responsibility for how it played out with Julius.

But the point is, this is exactly why I'm feeling good about the current situation where we may, or may not, get Donovan Mitchell. There's all this clamor about Danny Ainge fleecing the desperate Knicks. Where is that desperation? As a fan I don't feel it. And I haven't seen anything reflecting desperation from the front office.

We have a better team than last year! On several fronts! Brunson is fabulous (I was whining about not having a point guard all season). And Hartenstein isn't just a serviceable vet, the dude might yet become exceptional. Then we got the rising play of Grimes and Obi, et al.

We can negotiate from a position of strength. Knicks rarely get to do that. If we don't like the deal, fuck it.

And that's coming from someone who wants to see Mitchell here.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 29, 2022, 05:54:11 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on July 29, 2022, 05:41:36 PM
Dont see any reason Hayward wont play well.  For us or the Hornets.

82 games in a season.

That comes to 246 games over three seasons.

In the last three season he has played 145 games.

Played well, when he's played at all.

Gimme a break.  Or should I suggest if there is something to break, GH will  surely break it.

Maybe we can offer a two way contract to Greg Oden while we are at it. 
Title: Re: Focus Vs. Fuckus
Post by: chipstern on July 29, 2022, 05:58:12 PM
Quote from: elephant on July 29, 2022, 05:48:43 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 29, 2022, 01:07:06 PM
Nary a peep out of Thibs this whole while, but I suspect that signing of Brunson and Hartenstein, the return of Mitchell Robinson and Rose, and his clear emotional/spiritual investment in RJ and Julius, let alone Grimes, IQ and Toppin, is such that I'm not feelng a sense of urgency by Thibs to break it all up and go back to square one.  We have depth and character and talent from top to bottom.  Enough to get us into the TOP 6 of the East.  Well, that might be a bit bold, but for me the next step is consistency and competitive focus.   


I'm down with most of this, save for the fact that Thibs holds some real responsibility for how it played out with Julius.

But the point is, this is exactly why I'm feeling good about the current situation where we may, or may not, get Donovan Mitchell. There's all this clamor about Danny Ainge fleecing the desperate Knicks. Where is that desperation? As a fan I don't feel it. And I haven't seen anything reflecting desperation from the front office.

We have a better team than last year! On several fronts! Brunson is fabulous (I was whining about not having a point guard all season). And Hartenstein isn't just a serviceable vet, the dude might yet become exceptional. Then we got the rising play of Grimes and Obi, et al.

We can negotiate from a position of strength. Knicks rarely get to do that. If we don't like the deal, fuck it.

And that's coming from someone who wants to see Mitchell here.

Word
Title: Facil
Post by: chipstern on July 29, 2022, 10:51:51 PM
I have a new toy for you to play with. 

Apparently--well, make that supposedly--Washington and Charlotte are in talks with Utah. 

Do your worst, Trader Vic.  Wiz have some young depth that might appeal to Ainge.  But Charlotte has that Hayward contract, though I would be hard pressed to imagine Ainge taking him back with Mitchell out the door.  Pointless. 

In the meantime, "NBA INSIDER" Shams Charania maintains that there have been no discussions in two weeks between the Jazz & Knicks. 

PRAISE THE LORD. 
 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 30, 2022, 12:47:09 AM
Washington does not have the draft capital. Their 25, 27, and 29 is the best they can do. They also do not have enough useful young pieces.

Charlotte can do Denver 23 lotto protected, their 25, 27, and 29 plus Rozier, Bouknight, and Williams. Not sure that satisfies Ainge.

We can outbid them both but should decline to do so.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 30, 2022, 10:57:42 AM
Price isn't coming down

Knicks would have pulled the trigger already if they absolutely loved Mitchell.


This is OVER.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 30, 2022, 02:21:27 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 30, 2022, 12:47:09 AM
Washington does not have the draft capital. Their 25, 27, and 29 is the best they can do. They also do not have enough useful young pieces.

Charlotte can do Denver 23 lotto protected, their 25, 27, and 29 plus Rozier, Bouknight, and Williams. Not sure that satisfies Ainge.

We can outbid them both but should decline to do so.

This is likely old news, but checking out my daily rumors, under the heading of no Knicks Jazz contact in two weeks...all Ainge was asking?

Grimes, Toppin, Quickley, McBride and six #1 picks.

Uh Huh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 30, 2022, 11:11:17 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 30, 2022, 10:57:42 AM
Price isn't coming down

Knicks would have pulled the trigger already if they absolutely loved Mitchell.


This is OVER.

From your lips to Gods ears.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 31, 2022, 11:34:00 AM
Mark Jackson was among a group of current and former NBA players in Manhattan on Tuesday for the premiere of NYC Point Gods, a documentary from Kevin Durant about the history and cultural impact of top lead guards from New York City in the 1980s and 1990s. During an appearance on the red carpet Tuesday, Jackson took a few questions from reporters. One question Does he ever think about what the Knicks could have done if they didnt trade him?  Well I do believe that we win a championship, said Jackson, who was traded to the Clippers in a three team deal that sent Doc Rivers and Charles Smith to New York in 1993.  We had a great team, we had a process moving along, we advanced. We had the ultimate champs on the ropes. So I believe we win a championship if that team stays together.  But I am sure if you ask the opposition, they believe they win anyway.         



Nice.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 31, 2022, 12:43:29 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 30, 2022, 11:11:17 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 30, 2022, 10:57:42 AM
Price isn't coming down

Knicks would have pulled the trigger already if they absolutely loved Mitchell.


This is OVER.

From your lips to Gods ears.

GOOD

👍
Title: Ain't That A MAN
Post by: chipstern on July 31, 2022, 03:11:04 PM
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/3NcAAOSwsB9V~Bwx/s-l400.jpg)

(https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-258560bb82340005542abfb230f6ddf8)
Title: GOAT
Post by: chipstern on July 31, 2022, 03:27:56 PM
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/34/d8/12/34d812cd02245b4bfa23c3cc62acff48.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on July 31, 2022, 03:36:52 PM
And in canvas....

Truly  a great American whose work will live on forever.
Title: GOAT On & Off The Court
Post by: chipstern on July 31, 2022, 03:51:54 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on July 31, 2022, 03:36:52 PM
And in canvas....

Truly  a great American whose work will live on forever.

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/1f/ca/2c/1fca2c533969dc878614c0167ea1efa3.jpg)

(https://bdc2020.o0bc.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Bill-Russell-768x432.jpeg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Hamilton Samuels on July 31, 2022, 04:56:37 PM
Probably the most underappreciated athlete in Boston sports history. Boston didn't deserve Bill Russell.

Title: An Abomination
Post by: chipstern on July 31, 2022, 05:41:40 PM
Quote from: Hamilton Samuels on July 31, 2022, 04:56:37 PM
Probably the most underappreciated athlete in Boston sports history. Boston didn't deserve Bill Russell.

Russell & Family purchased a home in an upscale suburb of Boston. People told Russell time and time again that he didn't belong--Russell responded that he did belong & that they couldn't do anything about it. Then in 1963 fans broke into his home, spray painted racist words in the living room, smashed up his trophy case & defecated in his bed.

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQLHoanuNeg4W22Hjf4mx6V-yDpZK0n4pY6BQ6CgDtfyZcsA8pXyjLj19GG-n2BiZqYMEE&usqp=CAU0)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on August 01, 2022, 07:52:06 AM
The NBA should retire the #6 as a modest tribute to the pioneering and domineering impact the Bill Russell had on and off the court. He was a giant of a human being.

My sincerest condolences to his family, friends and fans around the world who are all saddened by this loss of an amazing man.

RIP #6
Title: Re: An Abomination
Post by: Hamilton Samuels on August 01, 2022, 11:19:21 AM
Quote from: chipstern on July 31, 2022, 05:41:40 PM
Quote from: Hamilton Samuels on July 31, 2022, 04:56:37 PM
Probably the most underappreciated athlete in Boston sports history. Boston didn't deserve Bill Russell.

Russell & Family purchased a home in an upscale suburb of Boston. People told Russell time and time again that he didn't belong--Russell responded that he did belong & that they couldn't do anything about it. Then in 1963 fans broke into his home, spray painted racist words in the living room, smashed up his trophy case & defecated in his bed.

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQLHoanuNeg4W22Hjf4mx6V-yDpZK0n4pY6BQ6CgDtfyZcsA8pXyjLj19GG-n2BiZqYMEE&usqp=CAU0)

Russell called Boston "a flea market of racism".
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 01, 2022, 07:36:41 PM
Only been there three times.... No need for more.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 02, 2022, 12:40:39 PM
Bean town picks up Noah Vonleh on a camp deal. I would bet he sticks and contributes valuable minutes throughout the season. 
Title: Hey Fac
Post by: carlos123 on August 02, 2022, 10:10:07 PM
You need to change your signature "Veterans blood is on republicans hands!!!". Apparently it was just a hissy fit, unless they know something we do not about Sinemas plans.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 02, 2022, 11:18:28 PM
Considering the invasion of Iraq and its aftermath along with Abbott abusing the NG at the border, I think I will leave my signature as it is for a while.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 03, 2022, 12:18:39 PM
https://fadeawayworld.net/nba/3-superteams-that-could-be-formed-for-the-2022-23-nba-season-lakers-celtics-and-knicks-become-the-new-powerhouses

Alright!!!  We're a Superteam.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 03, 2022, 03:10:40 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 03, 2022, 12:18:39 PM
https://fadeawayworld.net/nba/3-superteams-that-could-be-formed-for-the-2022-23-nba-season-lakers-celtics-and-knicks-become-the-new-powerhouses

Alright!!!  We're a Superteam.

That is unquestionably the most absurd crock of shit yet extant.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on August 04, 2022, 10:57:05 AM
Well, these people are not sportswriters. They're not journalists.

They're just sort of playing one on the web.

They provide cheap content for various sites, God knows what they get paid, if anything. That's why you see the same nonsensical shit recycled in a million places.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 04, 2022, 01:20:50 PM
I dont know...pretty darn good team linking Brunson and Mitchell with Barrett and Rand le.  With strong supporting cast as well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 04, 2022, 01:35:02 PM
https://youtu.be/YxB3iE6cEE0
Title: All Or Nothing?
Post by: chipstern on August 04, 2022, 02:46:38 PM
Quote from: elephant on August 04, 2022, 10:57:05 AM
Well, these people are not sportswriters. They're not journalists.

They're just sort of playing one on the web.

They provide cheap content for various sites, God knows what they get paid, if anything. That's why you see the same nonsensical shit recycled in a million places.

Immanuel Quickley, Quentin Grimes, Obi Toppin, Derrick Rose, 2023 First-Round Pick, 2024 First-Round Pick, 2025 First-Round Pick, 2026 First-Round Pick, 2029 First-Round Pick For Donovan Mitchell

I do believe that Kiid's position is that this adolescent wet dream is a transformative trade that benefits us more than the Jazz. 

The idea that Mitchell is somehow a significant game changer to the point of sundering all future assets and the heart of our second unit is a crock. 

I mean, it really makes me crazy. 

If Mitchell is so great, how did Brunson and the Mavs put Donovan and the Jazz to sleep? 

If Mitchell is so great, why are the Jazz contempating offloading their best player and going into the tank in total rebuild mode?  Would think you would want to rebuild around him. 

FIVE #1 Picks?

FUCK YOU. 

By keeping our powder dry, we could arguably, in the 2023 Draft, package our two #1 picks + X-future #1 picks to move up in the draft to cop next year's Jaden Ivey. 

Said picks could be deployed in some manner should Julius & The Knicks determine it would be best for us all to move on.  Me, I kind of think JR is going to benefit from Jalen running the point.  Likewise Fournier, who in the summer of 2023, would have one guaranteed year left on his deal...

Then again, come next February, a healthy productive Rose, with his team option for 2023-2024, might be packaged for a player or picks.

Finally, this feeding frenzy notwithstanding, tossing all of your eggs in one basket, blowing out all of your assets on one player, and sundering future flex seems counterintuitive to me, and I am heartened that the Knicks did not let themselves be strong armed by this nonsense. 

Quentin Grimes is not 6'1" he is 6'5" 

Quentin Grimes is not 26, he is 22

Quentin Grimes has a ways to go to be the offensive threat that Mitchell is, but he showed enormous progress this summer both as a shooter, scorer and facilitator. 

Quentin Grimes is a solid defender.  Donovan Mitchell is somewhat suspect in that department. 

QUNETIN GRIMES IS NOT DONOVAN MITCHELL.  Quentin Grimes has a considerable ways to go. 

Duly noted. 

I am happy to gague his progress and growing pains as a KNICK.  Likewise IQ and Obi, who made quite the statement to close out 2022. 

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mitchdo01.html (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mitchdo01.html)

Pretty damn impressive carerr stats for DM: 23.9 ppg, 3.4 reb, 4.5 dimes, .833 FT%

I mean, what's not to like?

Class? 

The Asking PRICE 

FUCK DONOVAN MITCHELL 

Title: Jazz V Mavericks
Post by: chipstern on August 04, 2022, 03:03:59 PM
https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/202204180DAL.html (https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/202204180DAL.html)

The series stats are interesting. 

Mitchell was putting up a lot of shots.  A LOT OF SHOTS.  Not very efficient.  Not all that great from trey. 

Hey, in all fairness, what else did Utah have, offensively? 

One could argue that Jalen out played DM, least ways, he mostly matched and in some ways exceeded DM. 

And no, that does not negate Mitchell's cumulative skillset or career consistency. 

Didn't translate into the Jazz rising to the top of the West though, did it. 

Maybe it is time for the Jazz to tear it all down and rebuild it. 

I AM NOT INCLINED TO HELP. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 04, 2022, 03:12:32 PM
Hopefully Leon is in your camp, Chip, and Dolan is far far off playing on the road.

Carlos, the sig change was just for you.

Some team will do something really stupid just before training camps open and that will get the ball rolling league wide. Let it not be us.
Title: Patience
Post by: chipstern on August 04, 2022, 04:02:55 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 04, 2022, 03:12:32 PM
Hopefully Leon is in your camp, Chip, and Dolan is far far off playing on the road.

Carlos, the sig change was just for you.

Some team will do something really stupid just before training camps open and that will get the ball rolling league wide. Let it not be us.

Everyone is waiting on Kevin Durant. 

Oh, and LeBron. 

No guarantee that the Knicks won't make a move, big or small. 

But it is prudent to wait things out. 

Grimes, Quickley, Toppin, McBride and Reddish will still be valuiable assets/developing players at the end of September, let alone next February. 

Randle, Fournier and Rose will still be talanted veterans who might be of considerable interest from now through February 2023. 

As for our #1 picks?

2023 [Knicks], 2023 [Dallas]

In trading our #11 to OKC on draft night [Ousmane Dieng], we got back Denver's #1, which we traded to Charlotte for Duren who we forwarded to the Pistons as part of the Walker/Burks/Noel shennanigans.  As I understand it, we got the Pistons protected #1 which they seem to have gotten from the Rockets.  And the Wizards #1, top 14 protected in 2023. 

And a bunch of #2 picks from past transactions with the Jazz, Hornets, Heat, Mavs, Pistons, T-Waolves.  I can't figure it out. 

Our own 2024 #1, sundry #2s

Our own 2025 #1, and a #1 from the Pistons via the Bucks, as I understand it. 

Our own 2026 #1 and sundry conditional #2s. 

All of which can be shuffled and reshuffled. 

Obviously we have a very young roster, so draft capital is not necessarily there to be picked, as roster space is at a premium.  Still, it can be packaged for fewere, BETTER draft picks. 

As things stand now? 

Robinson, Hartenstein, Sims, Toppin, Reddish, Barrett, Grimes, Quickley, McBride. 

That's NINE right there. 

Randle, Brunson.

That's ELEVEN. 

Fournier, Rose.

That's THIRTEEN.

Hunt, Keels.

That's FIFTEEN.

Jokubaitis

That's SIXTEEN. 

So taken with all of that draft capital, we have the assets to mix and match and thin the herd, at the same time we are developing our pups. 

So are deals on the horizon? 

Likely. 

Mitchell? 

Only if the price is right. 

Stay tuned. 

PATIENCE, Butterflies, PATIENCE

Patience?  You never know what kind of tasty treat might appear on the horizon.  The Clippers cashed in when John Wall was bought out by the Rockets, and they got him for what, $6.49 million, with a team option for the second year. 

Seeing as how the Clippers have the highest payroll in the league: $195,331,757

Kawhi Leonard & Paul George: 42, 45 48 [player option]

Norman Powell: 16, 18, 19, 20

Marcus Morris: 16, 17

Luke Kennard: 13, 14, 14 [team option]

Robert Covington: 12, 11

Reggie Jackson: 11

Nicholas Batum: 10, 11

Ivica Zubac: 10, 10, 11

They are in win now mode, and teaming Wall with Jackson at PG [health wlling], a healthy Leonard and George [GOD willing], and with their veteran depth and skill set, they can make a big noise out west. 

However, because the Knicks were proactive in keeping contracts short [Burks, Noel and Rose all on 2 +1's], and thus able to maneuver to swap out draft assets for more draft assets and salary cap space, they were able to pounce on the Clippers' 24 year old center Isaiah Hartenstein right at the point where he is just starting to really peak, and where the Clippers went all in on John Wall and presumably they could not afford his salary plus the luxury tax hit, which seems odd, I mean, in for a dime in for a dollar.  Still, the Knicks were able to swoop in and get him with cap space left over from their Jalen Brunson pursuit. 

Who knows what might come out on the market between now and training camp, between opening night and the February 2023 trade deadline. 

Stay flexible.  Stay prudent.  Stay patient. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 04, 2022, 05:57:17 PM
Let Mitchell fall elsewhere, trades resolve, rosters rationalize, dudes get cut, and use one of our two spots for someone good who now that they are available wants to be here.

Or if some one needs one of our well compensated vets we can take back up to three smaller contracts in exchange, maybe to a Texas team that expects to see a lot of Zion.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 04, 2022, 06:08:44 PM
McDermott Vassel Langford

Wood Bullock

Gordon Eason

for

The Big Jewel, Julius Randle
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 04, 2022, 06:12:44 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 04, 2022, 06:08:44 PM
McDermott Vassel Langford

Wood Bullock

Gordon Eason

for

The Big Jewel, Julius Randle

Jeeze Louize. 

We have a full roster and a chemistry carry over from last season. 

THIS IS SIMPLY LAME. 

Would you stop already. 

Let's make a trade for Alex Jones while we are at it. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 04, 2022, 06:54:10 PM
You are feeling good about chemistry in this team with Randle on the roster? I am asking because I would also like to believe.
Title: Sig change
Post by: carlos123 on August 04, 2022, 07:40:46 PM
Quote from: Fac on August 04, 2022, 03:12:32 PM
Hopefully Leon is in your camp, Chip, and Dolan is far far off playing on the road.

Carlos, the sig change was just for you.

Some team will do something really stupid just before training camps open and that will get the ball rolling league wide. Let it not be us.

Thanks Fac, but maybe you should change the final line, you do not want to alienate ALL the conservatives. How about -Time to end their system of controlling the country from the minority?

On the matter of a Mitchell trade, totally agree with this post.
Title: Randle
Post by: chipstern on August 04, 2022, 07:44:39 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 04, 2022, 06:54:10 PM
You are feeling good about chemistry in this team with Randle on the roster? I am asking because I would also like to believe.

I would also like to believe. 

Certainly he deserves an opportunity to play with Brunson. 

A Randle trade that made sense is not anththetical to my beliefs. 

But just bringing on a basket of shit, a trade for the sake of trade, a bunch of bodies who will be unhappy campers if they do not get minutes, taking up roster/floor space that could be better deployed by our pups. 

I DO NOT GIVE A FROZEN FUCK ABOUT RANDLE'S CONTRACT HIT, NOR FOURNEIR's. 

If a trade makes sense, hey. 

But this whole DUMP RANDLE feeding frenzy is FUCKING NONSENSICAL. 

The reason we got Brunson was to make Randle, Barrett, Fournier and Robinson BETTER. 

Would I like to see Toppin challenge Randle, Reddish challenge Barrett, Grimes challenge Fournier and Hartenstein challenge Robinson? 

YOU BET. 

RANDLE sucked so badly last season he still averaged 20-10-5.  He is a skilled player, who got all caught up in his own overheated sense of what he was expected to do, what he thought he should be doing.  Part of it was his fault.  Part of it was Thibs' deployment, setting him up to fail, as he was overtasked--has good facilitating skills but he is not a fucking point forward, that is to say we had NO FUCKING POINT GUARDS, save for my man Deuce, who was surely game, but hardly ready.  I don't think Julius was coasting on his contract, but I do believe that he overthinks the game, when he should be more straightfoward and decisive.  The Hawks playoff beat down got in his head. 

Anyway, not to make excuses for him, but to put all the onus for a sucky season is just wrong. 

We never recovered from the Kemba experiment, nor Thibs' petulant response,  and when Rose went down, let alone all of the COVID shit, we were fucked. 

I've seen internet scenarios where we were involved in a Westbrook trade where we got Tucker-Fucker and a 2027 Lakers #1, and the Lakers got Randle and Fournier.  And the Jazz got Westbrook and a load of assets from the Knicks. 

FUCK THAT. 

CAP SPACE?

FUCK THAT.  Bail out the Lakers with two talented vets for a basket of shit.  FUCK THE LAKERS. 

I appear to be saying fuck a lot. 

I apologize. 

But making trades just for the sake of trades are confounding to my tiny fucking brain. 

I am NOT OVERESTIMATING the level of talent on our roster. 

It would be a miracle if we cracked the Top Six in a rough & tumble East.   The 6-10 spots seem doable. 

Rose & Company have taken away Thibs' veteran suckling nipple, though, hey, we still have Rose, Fournier, Randle, Brunson and Robinson. 

Robinson-Randle-Barrett-Fournier-Brunson

Hartenstein-Toppin-Reddish-Grimes-Quickley

Hey, Grimes might supplant Fournier in the starting five.  Fournier might supplant Reddish on the second unit, with Quickley and Rose in the backcourt. 

McBride and Sims are going to command some playing time in a crowded rotation. 

We have depth up and down 1-through-15. 

We do NOT NEED TO ADD more fucking bodies in the name of opening up cap space. 

We do not need to GIVE AWAY Randle and Fournier. 

We do not need to gut our roster and give away all of our number 1 picks for Donovan Mitchell. 

We need to optimize and nurture and develop the young talent we have on this very competitive but admittedly green unproven roster, to build on our shared suffering and hard earned chemistry from last season, and let Jalen Brunson work his mojo as our bell cow. 

We don't need to dump Randle and Fournier.  We need to optimize their talent and set them up to succeed.  If they raise their game, they raise their value, either to the Knicks or potential sutors.  We're not trying to tank.  We're trying to GROW. 

So a garage sale? 

Come on, dude. 

Anyway, stay cool in the dog days upon us. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 04, 2022, 09:01:14 PM
After toiling through Fizz-Miller, as the last PF standing, Randle has given us a full year of world beater and a full year of misguided talent with management, coach and the following players there throughout who will also be back this year,

Mitch Obi RJ Rose IQ

We hope with reason that we have upgraded the starting PG and reserve center while at least holding serve with the other wing and second unit filler.

The machine could be primed for a Randle resurgence, especially if he can find a groove and a lane that works for everyone.

From scant evidence it looks like he has not slacked off in his approach to improving himself, so why not give him a chance to help us be amazing and thereby win back the faithful and the Garden crowd?
Title: Re: Patience
Post by: elephant on August 04, 2022, 10:23:56 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 04, 2022, 04:02:55 PM
...

Patience?  You never know what kind of tasty treat might appear on the horizon.  The Clippers cashed in when John Wall was bought out by the Rockets, and they got him for what, $6.49 million, with a team option for the second year. 

Seeing as how the Clippers have the highest payroll in the league: $195,331,757

Kawhi Leonard & Paul George: 42, 45 48 [player option]

Norman Powell: 16, 18, 19, 20

Marcus Morris: 16, 17

Luke Kennard: 13, 14, 14 [team option]

Robert Covington: 12, 11

Reggie Jackson: 11

Nicholas Batum: 10, 11

Ivica Zubac: 10, 10, 11

They are in win now mode, and teaming Wall with Jackson at PG [health wlling], a healthy Leonard and George [GOD willing], and with their veteran depth and skill set, they can make a big noise out west. 

However, because the Knicks were proactive in keeping contracts short [Burks, Noel and Rose all on 2 +1's], and thus able to maneuver to swap out draft assets for more draft assets and salary cap space, they were able to pounce on the Clippers' 24 year old center Isaiah Hartenstein right at the point where he is just starting to really peak[/b], and where the Clippers went all in on John Wall and presumably they could not afford his salary plus the luxury tax hit, which seems odd, I mean, in for a dime in for a dollar.  Still, the Knicks were able to swoop in and get him with cap space left over from their Jalen Brunson pursuit. 

This is a really interesting observation.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 04, 2022, 10:59:24 PM
Hunt and Keels?  What?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 04, 2022, 11:01:17 PM
I guess 5 bigs are enough but dont mind if we keep a sixth
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 05, 2022, 02:47:52 AM
Hunt is an NBA baller. Since there is no practice limit of two way players anymore, there is no harm in playing him some of the fifty games he is signed on for under his current two way contract if the situation arises through a combo of him earning it and us needing him to bring what he has due to availability or effectiveness issues in guys further up the pecking order.

He can check big wings and stretch forwards who will in turn have to chase his ass and probably figure his game out on the fly. He has a game.

Keels is further off than Rokas, a year away from being a year away but worth hanging on to in his junior capacity.

If our eye does not fall on anyone else, I would not mind Jefferies as an energy-depth piece in slot 14. He is a Dawg entering his prime who has put in work both on and with his game. He has huge hands to go with hops, pop, and brute force.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 05, 2022, 02:45:34 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 05, 2022, 02:47:52 AM
Hunt is an NBA baller. Since there is no practice limit of two way players anymore, there is no harm in playing him some of the fifty games he is signed on for under his current two way contract if the situation arises through a combo of him earning it and us needing him to bring what he has due to availability or effectiveness issues in guys further up the pecking order.

He can check big wings and stretch forwards who will in turn have to chase his ass and probably figure his game out on the fly. He has a game.

Keels is further off than Rokas, a year away from being a year away but worth hanging on to in his junior capacity.

If our eye does not fall on anyone else, I would not mind Jefferies as an energy-depth piece in slot 14. He is a Dawg entering his prime who has put in work both on and with his game. He has huge hands to go with hops, pop, and brute force.

I was quite taken by Hunt in summer league, hell by Hunt AND Keels, McBride, Grimes and Sims.  DeQuann Jeffries showed well, as did PG Jean Montero, and that white center, Michal Potter, who was heady and active.  I have a soft spot for PF Aamir Sims, but he didn't get much burn. 

There were stretches where our Summer League Knicks played with an intoxicating degree of collective/individual defensive intensity, particularly McBride and Grimes, both showing that they have an upside to build on and are prepared to compete at a higher level in their sophomore year. 

Keels was up and down, but he has a for real man's body if not yet a mature NBA game, and while his shot was inconsistent, he hit enough to suggest there is something to build on, and again, while his forays into the paint often rolled out or got blocked, I took note of his muscular aggression. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 05, 2022, 03:04:03 PM
The four guys from our summer league who showed they are worthy rotation players at worst, whether or not they get the opportunity, are Deuce, Grimes, Hunt, and Sims.

One last crack at Mitchell so trader Danny has something he can compare to the competing offers.

Fournier, Rose, Quickley, McBride, Dallas and Washington 2023 firsts, our 2024, our 2026, and two additional second rounders if the Dallas pick does not convey for Mitchell and either Jarred Vanderbilt or Nickiel Alexander-Walker.

We wind up with

Mitch Zeke Jericho
Jules Obi
RJ Reddish
DM Grimes
Brunson

Plus Alexander-Walker or Vanderbilt plus a small exception to grab another PG.

If they are healthy, I assume you stagger the rest for Brunson and Mitchell so one is almost always on the court and when there is one that is the PG.

I am still concerned how they would work on the court together, so Danny can pass on this if he wants to and I would still rate us good to go.

If we do wind up with that group, I like the idea of playing Mitch with the midget dynamite backcourt so he can protect them and they can feed him. Then Hartenstein can support whichever one is not resting with his passing game and general mindset. An RJ-Grimes backcourt is not the worst emergency option to explore either.

Title: All Is Fair...Too Fair, If You Ask Me
Post by: chipstern on August 05, 2022, 03:24:51 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 05, 2022, 03:04:03 PM
The four guys from our summer league who showed they are worthy rotation players at worst, whether or not they get the opportunity, are Deuce, Grimes, Hunt, and Sims.

One last crack at Mitchell so trader Danny has something he can compare to the competing offers.

Fournier, Rose, Quickley, McBride, Dallas and Washington 2023 firsts, our 2024, our 2026, and two additional second rounders if the Dallas pick does not convey for Mitchell and either Jarred Vanderbilt or Nickiel Alexander-Walker.

We wind up with

Mitch Zeke Jericho
Jules Obi
RJ Reddish
DM Grimes
Brunson

Plus Alexander-Walker or Vanderbilt plus a small exception to grab another PG.

If they are healthy, I assume you stagger the rest for Brunson and Mitchell so one is almost always on the court and when there is one that is the PG.

I am still concerned how they would work on the court together, so Danny can pass on this if he wants to and I would still rate us good to go.

Mmmmmm

Okay. 

Would hate to give up IQ, anyone for that matter, but this is a rational offer. 

I would hesitate to give up McBride, simply because we are again left naked and exposed in terms of PG by offloading Rose AND IQ AND Deuce.  Both Jalen and Donovan can fulfill PG duties for sure; Montero has some upside; and Rokas could come over in the summer of 2023. 

I would try and leverage Patrick Beverley somehow in this deal, particularly if McBride is out the door, as he has one year remaining at 13 million, is a ferocious defender and competitor in the Thibs mode, is accustomed to coming off the bench, can nail the three, and has a level of nasty that would be beneficial to our pus moving forward. 

Also, Grimes is surely being groomed to be a combo guard long term, so that gives us some PG coverage in a pinch, not on a Rose or IQ level presently, but his work with Penny Hardaway showed some discernible improvements this summer.  Consistency, again, is the key. 

Having said all that...

And projecting this with my spiritual vaseline and Kleenex...

C: Robinson, Sims

PF-C: Randle, Toppin, Hartenstein

SF-PF: Reddish, Hunt

SG-SF: Barrett, Grimes, Keels

SG-PG: Brunson, Mitchell

PG: Beverley, Montero

I kinda doubt that Ainge bites on this deal without either Grimes or Toppin, both of whom I would be loathe to include. 

Anyway, I too am good to go without Mitchell, unless Ainge backs off considerably.  To me this is a fair offer.  But Danny doesn't want a fair offer.  Trader Danny wants to put Leon Rose in a French Maids' outfit and bend him over a straight backed chair. 

PASS...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 05, 2022, 05:13:55 PM
This makes sense - and may still be available for Ainge down the road.

https://hoopshype.com/2022/08/05/lakers-knicks-and-jazz-discussed-three-team-blockbuster-deal-involving-russell-westbrook/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 05, 2022, 05:43:18 PM
HARD PASS.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 05, 2022, 08:24:06 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 05, 2022, 05:43:18 PM
HARD PASS.

If the Knicks-Jazz-Lakers trade involved the Jazz picking up Westbrook and two #1s from the Lakers, the Lakers picking up Beasley and Beverley from the Jazz, and the Knicks getting away with Rose AND/OR Fournier [to Jazz or Lakers] plus, PRESUMABLY,  five #1 picks, well, that's a shitload of draft capital, but we keep all our precious puppies.

That's pricey, but doable in my mind. 

Makes too much sense.

I doubt the veracity of this report. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 06, 2022, 05:25:24 PM
Four number ones, only two of which our ours, with the same players moving is OK.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 06, 2022, 09:43:01 PM
Fuck Danny.

Rozier and Thor for Randle. No picks exchanged.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 07, 2022, 10:04:15 AM
No, thanks very much.

Randle for nobody if a Mitchell type player is not included.



Title: Broken Promise [A.K.A. WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK]
Post by: chipstern on August 07, 2022, 04:41:57 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 06, 2022, 09:43:01 PM
Fuck Danny.

Rozier and Thor for Randle. No picks exchanged.

Love You. 

And So I Made A Solemn Promise To Myself That I Would Not Contest Another FacilPhantasyTrade.  I Mean, Why Shouldn't You Have Your Fun?

Alas, this is UNQUESTIONABLY The Most INCOMPREHENSIBLE To Date. 

We save NO Money. 

We give up our starting PF, an All-Star only two years ago, for MitchellLIGHT, creating an even bigger, more intractable logjam in the backcourt.

Brunson, Quickley, Grimes, Rose, McBride, Keels...RJ, Fournier, Reddish.

Hello?   Where exactly do the 28 year old Rozier's 33 minutes a night come from?  And at whose expense?  Another unhappy camper.  At 21, 23, 24 guaranteed for the next three years. 

Apparently the legalization of marijauna has had a profound effect on you...that and the heat.

I mean...

What The ACTUAL Fuck. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 07, 2022, 05:37:19 PM
https://twitter.com/ClutchPointsApp/status/1556122109184720896?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1556122109184720896%7Ctwgr%5Eea154d77dc3a1508464581881f7823b3068281fe%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fhoopshype.com%2Frumors%2F
Title: Really?
Post by: chipstern on August 07, 2022, 05:54:00 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on August 07, 2022, 05:37:19 PM
https://twitter.com/ClutchPointsApp/status/1556122109184720896?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1556122109184720896%7Ctwgr%5Eea154d77dc3a1508464581881f7823b3068281fe%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fhoopshype.com%2Frumors%2F

Melo?

Ya think? 

Again, kind of crowded, don't you think at SF-PF?

Barrett, Reddish, Fournier, Randle, Toppin, Hunt, Hartenstein [Stretch 4/Center]

Not the worst idea, and Melo would certainly be a heady veteran influence to push RJ, Cam, Hunt and Toppin, but minutes, minutes, minutes. 

We went the HOMECOMING Route last season with Kemba, and admittedly, Melo is much healthier and potentially more effective. 

Still...I don't think so. 
 
Title: One More Time
Post by: chipstern on August 07, 2022, 06:30:50 PM
For all the Trader Vics amongst us... 

Browsing the blogosphere, I found a breakdown of our draft assets, so one more time: 

2023 first-round pick via Detroit (protected 1-18 until 2024, protected 1-13 in 2025, protected 1-11 in 2026, protected 1-9 in 2027)

2023 first-round pick via Washington (protected 1-14 in 2023, protected 1-12 in 2024, protected 1-10 in 2025, protected 1-8 in 2026)

2023 first-round pick via Denver (protected 1-14 until 2025)

2023 first-round pick via Dallas (protected 1-10 in 2023)

2025 first-round pick via Milwaukee (protected 1-4 in 2025)

Didn't we already trade the Denver pick to Charlotte for Duren in that convoluted Walker/Burks/Noel transaction? 

Admittedly a LongLongShot, but not beyond the realm of possibility that both the Wizards AND Pistons #1 picks might convey?

PISTONS

C: Jalen Duren, Nerlens Noel

PF-C: Isiah Stewart, Marvin Bagley, Kelly Olynyk

SF: Saddiq Bey, Kevin Knox

SG: Jaden Ivey, Alec Burks, Hammidou Diallo

PG: Cade Cunningham, Killian Hayes, Corey Joseph

Pistons have a long way to go, but they have some nice front court talent, and a Cunningham-Ivey back court could really be scary. 

WIZARDS:

C: Kristaps Porzingis, Daniel Gafford, Vernon Carey

PF: Kyle Kuzma, Rui Hachimura, Taj Gibson

SF: Deni Avdija, Corey Kispert, Will Barton

SG: Bradley Beal, Johnny Davis

PG: Monte Morrie, Tomas Santorasky, Cassius Winston

Kind of suspect at PG, though Beal has genuine chops as a facilitator...maybe the Wiz go with a Beal/Davis backcourt.  Is Porizingis capable of staying fucking healthy?  Do Avdija and Kispert step up in their third and second go rounds  repsctively?  Kuzma and Hachimura can give you significant coverage at PF as well as SF. 

Anyway, both the Pistons and Wizards will puch the Knicks for the 6-10 play in. 

Given the long shot possibilties of the Pistons AND Wizards stepping up in 2022-23, I would be in no particular hurry to give those #1 picks to Danny Ainge.  Let alone Toppin and Quickley. 
Title: Re: Really?
Post by: elephant on August 07, 2022, 09:45:41 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 07, 2022, 05:54:00 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on August 07, 2022, 05:37:19 PM
https://twitter.com/ClutchPointsApp/status/1556122109184720896?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1556122109184720896%7Ctwgr%5Eea154d77dc3a1508464581881f7823b3068281fe%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fhoopshype.com%2Frumors%2F

Melo?

Ya think? 

Again, kind of crowded, don't you think at SF-PF?


Lighten up, man. It was just cool to watch, no?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 07, 2022, 10:43:54 PM
Bingo .  The hat.  heh.
Title: Re: Really?
Post by: chipstern on August 08, 2022, 04:14:04 PM
Quote from: elephant on August 07, 2022, 09:45:41 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 07, 2022, 05:54:00 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on August 07, 2022, 05:37:19 PM
https://twitter.com/ClutchPointsApp/status/1556122109184720896?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1556122109184720896%7Ctwgr%5Eea154d77dc3a1508464581881f7823b3068281fe%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fhoopshype.com%2Frumors%2F

Melo?

Ya think? 

Again, kind of crowded, don't you think at SF-PF?


Lighten up, man. It was just cool to watch, no?

Sure was. 

Melo should go somewhere he might reasonably expect to get a steady 20-30 minutes a night. 

Any ideas? 
Title: Guess What?
Post by: chipstern on August 08, 2022, 04:38:14 PM
Kevin Durant to Joe Tsai

Trade me or fire Sean Marks and Steve Nash

https://nypost.com/2022/08/08/kevin-durant-to-joe-tsai-pick-me-or-sean-marks-steve-nash/ (https://nypost.com/2022/08/08/kevin-durant-to-joe-tsai-pick-me-or-sean-marks-steve-nash/)
Title: Re: Really?
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 08, 2022, 05:47:11 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 08, 2022, 04:14:04 PM
Quote from: elephant on August 07, 2022, 09:45:41 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 07, 2022, 05:54:00 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on August 07, 2022, 05:37:19 PM
https://twitter.com/ClutchPointsApp/status/1556122109184720896?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1556122109184720896%7Ctwgr%5Eea154d77dc3a1508464581881f7823b3068281fe%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fhoopshype.com%2Frumors%2F

Melo?

Ya think? 

Again, kind of crowded, don't you think at SF-PF?


Lighten up, man. It was just cool to watch, no?

Sure was. 

Melo should go somewhere he might reasonably expect to get a steady 20-30 minutes a night. 

Any ideas?

Sure

If he is willing to come I will give him Obi's minutes as part of a bigger plan.
Title: SIGH
Post by: chipstern on August 08, 2022, 05:51:20 PM
(https://media0.giphy.com/media/44ncTwf3A9yS8FmEfs/200w.gif?cid=82a1493bcw44iegek5mi0pip32f5zib6n9nlgox2d23ude9r&rid=200w.gif&ct=g)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 08, 2022, 07:39:03 PM
Kids bad judgement cannot be stopped. You can only hope to contain it.
Title: Carmelo 2.1
Post by: chipstern on August 08, 2022, 08:04:02 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 08, 2022, 07:39:03 PM
Kids bad judgement cannot be stopped. You can only hope to contain it.

Kind of like a Trump Rally.

Raw Meat To The Groundlings, Guaranteed To Stir Up Some Noise. 

We just parted company with Taj, Kemba, Alec and Nerlens. 

Our vets are now Rose, Fournier and Randle...Robinson and Toppin are graybirds, all of 24. 

By all means, let's nail Obi to the bench in the name of nostalgia. 

Melo surely has something left in the tank. 

I'd rather give his minutes to Toppin and Reddish and Hunt.  We are all in on youth. 

I was thinking the Clippers, but they are way over the cap, and their SF/PF contingent features Norman Powell, Marcus Morris, Kawhi Leonard, Robert Covington and Nicholas Batum. 

The HEAT?

BULLS? 

MAVS?

LAKERS? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on August 08, 2022, 09:48:15 PM
I want him to stay out west where I can root for him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 08, 2022, 10:07:13 PM
Quote from: elephant on August 08, 2022, 09:48:15 PM
I want him to stay out west where I can root for him.

❤️‍🩹
Title: Chamaco's judgement
Post by: carlos123 on August 08, 2022, 10:23:14 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 08, 2022, 07:39:03 PM
Kids bad judgement cannot be stopped. You can only hope to contain it.

Oh no, you do not want to stop it or contain it.

Much more fun in full bloom.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AL9nZEV7HzW7gZWHs052pvWckrkROu5rApGsPEbSzLDitjOeM98oessZ7futdvZWzxOph6dA2SdlATe5jaeYz5CKlXeVU8MLUZA7i_SIdpmzeN90QQ2KntylxO3CIYwosBEADZesvqaMGhPmTRmCq5WvsMxE=w427-h439-no?authuser=0)
Title: Time to admit
Post by: Kam on August 09, 2022, 12:50:48 AM
Julius Randle should be dealt before the start of camp.

If he is still here then it's the same team with the same ceiling and same weaknesses and redundancies for another year.   ie. Not as fun as it could be with out Randle's #1 guy Persona in second fiddle form.  For the love of all that is fun unleash OBI.  Let our PG actually run the offense.  Tell RJ to pull himself up and be the man.  I'll pay to watch that.  But none of those things can happen if Randle isn't moved or shelved.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on August 09, 2022, 08:18:36 AM
why just get rid of randle, dude look like he's in shape, his form on his shots look good he is not a throwaway piece.  Lets start the season with him and Toppin and see who outshines who and if its still logjam we make a decision by the deadline.  Also I like Melo but not at the expense of taking minutes from the youngins, we don't need no more vets.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 09, 2022, 01:27:45 PM
By all means, lets nail Obi to the bench in the name of nostalgia.



Heh

That's what you read?
Title: Et Tu, Kam? THE REASONING BEHIND STANDING PAT
Post by: chipstern on August 09, 2022, 02:05:47 PM
(https://scontent-lga3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/298270519_10224633430397190_6193244194418906866_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=hBKZwmaF0dAAX-aqa9Z&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-2.xx&oh=00_AT8yyUYMABOepOkzetgG-jqBdzu4jdoYfNuvWPdh4YEtxQ&oe=62F82F5F)

I am not oppossed to the idea of a Julius Randle TRADE.

But I am not down with a Julius Randle ASSASSINATION. 

The notion that JULIUS is the primary factor in our descent from 2020-2021 to 2021-2022, well, I think that is simplistic.  Much as I look at the calls in the Blogosphere to fire Tom Thibodeau as if that would miraculously liberate our roster. 

Is it worth noting/debating the roster changes and losses and how they impacted our squad's chemistry last season, never you mind how we saw young players and vets alike make a strong step forward only to be derailed by injuries or COVID. 

Theo Pinson, Elfrid Payton, Reggie Bullock?  Could they have made much of a difference skill wise, talent wise?  Meh.  Perhaps chemistry wise? 

Kemba Walker, Evan Fournier?

Straight out fo the gate, there was trouble meshing, and BOTH Julius AND R.J. were out of sorts, let alone IQ and Obi, who couldn't seem to find their rhythm in looking over their shoulders for the infamous Thibs Hook. 

Fournier would have one strong game [such as opening night vs. the Celtics] followed by two desultory ones.  What ever he gave us in offense, vis a vis the departed Bullock, was seemingly surrendered in defense. 

Thibs' insistence on tasking Julius with being our point forward was misplaced strategically, and when Rose went down, and TT turned to Burks instead of IQ/Deuce, raw as they were, and game as Alec was, had a domino effect, chemistry wise.  Never you mind Thibs turning to Taj, heroic as his play was, 9 times out of 10 to spell Mitchell or Julius, when Nerlens was unavailable, and TT had neither the faith nor cajones to let Obi play through his growing pains.

Well...now Taj is gone, Kemba is gone, Burks is gone, Noel is gone. 

Only Rose remains among the UberVets....then there are Fournier, Randle, Robinson. 

Who all face stiff competition from our pride of puppies: IQ/McBride, Grimes, Obi, Hartenstein/Sims. 

I appreciate the ennui of our fans regarding Randle's midseason hissy fits and meltdowns, but some of that is on Thibs, who as has been observed by many on this forum, mistasked JR as a point forward at the same time he burdened the game Burks with being a PG. 

I find the notion of...PUNISHING Randle for his immaturity distasteful and self-defeating. 

I feel he has earned at the very least one more chance to redeem himself, based on how he lifted this team on his back in 2020-21.  And in the presence of an ACTUAL FACTUAL POINT GUARD who will demand and command the rock and reduce the pressure on Julius AND R.J. and Fournier to do more than might reasonably be expected of them. 

Again, I do not believe Kam and others are wrong in advancing the notion that trading JR would be a case of addition by subtraction. 

But the "trade solutions" I have seen floated here and elsewhere serve only to exacerbate our own fragile chemistry. 

I am particularly offended by the suggestion we should GIVE the Lakers Randle AND Fournier in exchange for Westbrook and a 2027 #1. 

UNLESS Rob Pelinka AND Rich Paul AND and Phool Jagoff PissBoy Kurt Rambis ARE PREPARED TO SUCK NEON LEON's COCK AT CENTER COURT [while giving James Dolan a reach around] TO THE ACCOMPANIMENT OF THE MORMON TABERNACLE CHOIR?  Hello..

There is no fucking way I am bailing out the arrogant, self-entitled Lakers and retrofitting them for a supercharged Western Conference Championship run by relieving them of their Westbrook miscalculation, only to either have a very unhappy divisive RW on the bench behind Brunson and Rose and IQ, let alone buying him out in the name of cap space. 

FUCK That:  The Knicks are a basketball team, not a registererd charity. 

Likewise well meaning rolls of the dice for Hayward or Rozier. 

Both good players, but given the make up of our current roster, redundancies, given that Cam, Evan, R.J. Feron and Quentin are already battling for wing minutes, never you mind that GH has two guaranteed years remaining at $30 million plus and TR three guaranteed at Jalen Brunson money. 

FINALLY, this whole fucking media/fan base feeding frenzy regarding DONOVAN MITCHELL makes me want to hurl.  Don't get me wrong, I LOVE DONOVAN, but not at the cost of IQ, Obi and Grimes, never you mind a ransom in draft picks. 

I would much rather trust in Grimes and that he might over the next couple of years grow into a larger version of DM, well, DM Light, I'll grant you, with comprable facilitating skills, more size to play the 2-3-1, FAR BETTER DEFENSE, and a better trey--at a rookie contract price. 

WHY DO Y'ALL THINK AINGE IS SO OBSESSED WITH THE KID, Numb Nutz? 

I WOULD MUCH RATHER TRUST THE PROCESS, now that we actually have a process, AND ALLOW THE PROCESS TO PLAY OUT, as opposed to the bullshit narrative as to how the Knicks MUST GET A STAR to have credibility and be a legit contender.  Christ. 

Fuck THAT. 

Question, geniuses.  In order to obtain STARS Anthony Davis AND Russell Westbrook, and team them with The GodHead LeBron, what did the Lakers surrender?

In both cases, a Danny Ainge Haul.

Lonzo Ball, Brandon Ingram, Josh Hart and three first round picks, including the No. 4 overall pick, the latter turning in to DeAndre Hunter, when the Pelicans traded him to the Hawks for the #8, 17 & 35 picks [Jaxson Hayes, Nickeil Alexander-Walker, Marcos Louzada Silva].  Ingram is an all-star, Josh Hart got the Pelicans another all-star in C.J. McCollum.  Anthony Davis is a force of nature, when he is not on the IR. 

Westbrook?  Cost the Lakers Kyle Kuzma, Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, Montrezl Harrell, and the 22nd overall pick of the 2021 Draft [Isaiah Jackson, whom the Wiz traded to the Pacers, where he looks to evolve into a rotation PF] . PF-SF Kuzma is a rotation player for the Wiz, averaging 17.1-8.5-3.5 in 33 minutes.  Pope was just signed as a FA by the Nuggets, right.  As a rotation player for the Wiz he shot .890% from the FT line, .390% from trey, averaging 13.7 ppg in 30 minutes. 

Anthony Davis?  Russell Westbrook?  The Lakers GUTTED Their Roster And Much Of Their Draft Capital In Pursuit Of SHINY FUCKING OBJECTS.  I repeat: FUCK DONOVAN MITCHELL & SHINY OBJECTS.

And I love the idea of Melo more than the reality, given that we have younguns like R.J., Cam, Feron and Obi who need floortime more than we as a team need another fucking nostalgia tour.  Never you mind that eight #1 draft picks might be tasked with facilitating more rational trades, let alone being packaged for BETTER, MORE TASTY #1 PICKS IN DRAFTS YET TO COME. 

All of which is a rather long-winded, redundant, self-referential way of saying what JAQDAVISONE said more convincingly and in way fewer words. 

Why just get rid of Randle, dude look like he's in shape, his form on his shots look good he is not a throwaway piece.  Lets start the season with him and Toppin and see who outshines who and if its still logjam we make a decision by the deadline.  Also I like Melo but not at the expense of taking minutes from the youngins, we don't need no more vets.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 09, 2022, 02:06:24 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on August 09, 2022, 01:27:45 PM
By all means, lets nail Obi to the bench in the name of nostalgia.



Heh

That's what you read?

That's what you SAID. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 09, 2022, 03:19:43 PM
The notion that JULIUS is the primary factor in our descent from 2020-2021 to 2021-2022, well, I think that is simplistic.

 

Maybe.  But Randle's lesser play was a key part in the fall

Other:

1)  Rose missing so much time
2)  Shitcanning of Payton
3)  Other teams getting better
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 09, 2022, 03:28:24 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 09, 2022, 02:06:24 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on August 09, 2022, 01:27:45 PM
By all means, lets nail Obi to the bench in the name of nostalgia.



Heh

That's what you read?

That's what you SAID.

Better read it again
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 09, 2022, 03:43:57 PM
Anthony Davis?  Russell Westbrook?  The Lakers GUTTED Their Roster And Much Of Their Draft Capital In Pursuit Of SHINY FUCKING OBJECTS.  I repeat  FUCK DONOVAN MITCHELL and SHINY OBJECTS.


Yeah - AD getting old and creaky at 27 was unforeseen - after the TITLE. 

You know I like Ingram and Lonzo but are Lakers winning a title if they kept that duo and the future picks? 

Then after falling from 52-19 to 42-30 and a first round exit - keeping Caldwell Pope, Harrell, Kuzma, with Davis was the answer?  (This is where you slot in that Lakers could have drafted Grimes)

Good Lord.    .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 09, 2022, 03:46:18 PM
And I love the idea of Melo more than the reality, given that we have younguns like R.J., Cam, Feron and Obi who need floortime more than we as a team need another fucking nostalgia tour. 

 

Obi wouldnt be here
Title: The PERIL Of Shiny Objects
Post by: chipstern on August 09, 2022, 04:17:02 PM
The Brooklyn Nyets remain a cautionary tale. 

They, too, struck a deal with Danny Ainge.


The Nyets, in exchange for the earthly remains of Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, Jason Terry and DJ White, sent Gerald Wallace, Kris Humphries, Marshon Brooks, Kris Joseph, Keith Bogans and first-round picks in 2014, 2016, and 2018, plus the right to swap 2017 first-rounders.  Among those #1 picks geniuses on the internet are so keen for the Knicks to proffer to Danny Ainge, were picks that turned into foundational pieces for a Celtics Dynasty: Jaylen Brown and Jason Tatum [you remember him, the bust Kiid insisted the Celtics should have passed on in favor of Fultz or Ball]  Clearly in Ainge's mind, this is what he saw when the Wolves came a knocking, and sees himself strong arming Neon Leon out of. 

Strike ONE

Durant & Kyrie, The Ascension Of The Shiny Objects

Strike TWO

Fire Coach Kenny Atkinson to accomodate The Shiny Objects

Hit by a pitch. 

And to complete the process, and accomodate the Gold Dust Twins, aka, the SHINY OBJECTS, the Nyets ponied up a King's Ransom for James Harden in a complicated four team circle jerk.
 
Rockets: Victor Oladipo, Dante Exum, Rodions Kurucs, 3 BKN first-rounders (22, 24, 26), 1 MIL first (22, unprotected), 4 BKN 1st round swaps (21, 23, 25, 27)

Nets: James Harden

Pacers: Caris LeVert, 2nd-rounder

Cavs: Jarrett Allen, Taurean Prince

Allen is an all-star for the ascendant Cavs.  LaVert was putting up all star numbers for the Pacers when he got hurt.  And believe you me, those #1 picks and #1 swaps are going to haunt the Brooklyn franchise moving forward. 

Strike THREE [& FOUR]

Finally, when Harden grew frustrated with the Nyets, having played only a handful of games with Durant and COVID Martyr Irving, he pushed for a trade. 

Sixers got James Harden and Paul Milsap, the Nyets got Ben Simmons, Seth Curry, Andre Drummond and two a #1 picks. 

STRIKE FIVE

Nyets wanted a shiny object?

Now Irving is going to walk in the summer of 2023. 

And NOW Durant is telling the Nyets, ME NO HAPPY. 

Kevin played ZERO GAMES in 2019-20. 

Kevin played 35 games in 2020-21, putting up 26.9-7.1-5.6

Kevin played 55 games in 2021-22, putting up 29.9-7.4-6.4

All universe numbers based on less than one regular season's games in three years.

Rewarded KD with four years of guaranteed money: $44,119,845$47,649,433 $51,179,020   $54,708,608 through 2026. 

And Kevin is so grateful, he has DEMANDED A TRADE, or the firing of Steve Nash and Sean Marks, thus annointing himself as Don Durant, Capo De General Manager.

Knicks were ALL IN for Durant & Irving, apros pos trading Porzingis. 

We struck out, THANK GOD.  And now we want to revisit Danny Ainge 2.1, 3.2 by gutting our roaster with 4.3

Hmmmm?

SHINY OBJECTS Motherfuckers. 

Shiny Objects.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 09, 2022, 04:18:16 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on August 09, 2022, 03:46:18 PM
And I love the idea of Melo more than the reality, given that we have younguns like R.J., Cam, Feron and Obi who need floortime more than we as a team need another fucking nostalgia tour. 

 

Obi wouldnt be here

Ah, so.

Then I DIDN'T MISREAD You, Genius. 

Fuck off...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 09, 2022, 04:21:37 PM
Then why did you say Obi to the  bench?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 09, 2022, 04:29:13 PM
brunson
rose
mitchell
grimes
barrett
fournier/reddish
randle
anthony
robinson
hartenstein

sims
mcbride
hunt
add a big
keels
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 09, 2022, 04:30:52 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on August 09, 2022, 04:29:13 PM
brunson
rose
mitchell
grimes
barrett
fournier/reddish
randle
anthony
robinson
hartenstein

sims
mcbride
hunt
add a big
keels

Brilliant. 

I've got just the man. 

OBI TOPPIN
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 09, 2022, 04:38:33 PM
Allen is an all-star for the ascendant Cavs.  LaVert was putting up all star numbers for the Pacers when he got hurt.  And believe you me, those #1 picks and #1 swaps are going to haunt the Brooklyn franchise moving forward.


LeVert has averaged 53 games played over 6 years

Allen played 56 last year.

Harden of course averages 72.5 games played over 13 seasons
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 09, 2022, 04:39:46 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 09, 2022, 04:30:52 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on August 09, 2022, 04:29:13 PM
brunson
rose
mitchell
grimes
barrett
fournier/reddish
randle
anthony
robinson
hartenstein

sims
mcbride
hunt
add a big
keels

Brilliant. 

I've got just the man. 

OBI TOPPIN

Really depends on trust, with Sims.  Staying at five bigs could work.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 09, 2022, 04:43:36 PM
You know Obi doesnt shoot like Melo, like Hartenstein, like (potntial target) Hachimura - right?


Early free agent look for summer 2023

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10041083-way-too-soon-2023-nba-free-agency-rankings-top-30-players
Title: Melo Nonsense
Post by: chipstern on August 09, 2022, 05:15:31 PM
There is absolutely no rational reason to supplant Obi with Melo.

Does that roster allow us to go deep into the Eastern Conference Playoffs?

Melo played well on a team featuring the Big Three of James, Davis and Westbrook, and the Lakers failed to make the playoffs.  HELLO. 

We are not even at that stage in our evolution. 

And you are going to supplant a 24 year old with a world of potential for a 38 year old on his final furlongs, so he can take a victory lap celebrating our last disasturous SHINY OBJECT TRADE, which coincidentally, featured Carmelo Anthony. 

Moronic on a scale seldom seen since the Knicks traded Rod Strickland for the earthly remains of Maurice Cheeks, citing many of the same fatuous, self-immolating reasons. 

And then, not unlike those Knicks, we will end up with NEITHER Toppin nor Anthony going forward, much as the Knicks ended up without Strickland or Cheeks or ultimately, Mark Jackson. 

PS: Your projection of a trade target which does not even fucking exist, in Brother Hahimura, as justification for offlading Toppin [theoretically in a Mitchell Deal you did not delineate], is some specious, assbackwards nonsense. 

PPS: Hey, let's bring back Jimmer to team with Melo, with the Taste of Kemba still fresh in our mouths. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 09, 2022, 06:02:15 PM
There is absolutely no rational reason to supplant Obi with Melo.

Does that roster allow us to go deep into the Eastern Conference Playoffs

Its a better team.

You don't  only improve a team when you can justify that there will be a Finals run.
Title: Re: Time to admit
Post by: elephant on August 09, 2022, 06:09:46 PM
Quote from: Kam on August 09, 2022, 12:50:48 AM
Julius Randle should be dealt before the start of camp.

If he is still here then it's the same team with the same ceiling and same weaknesses and redundancies for another year.   ie. Not as fun as it could be with out Randle's #1 guy Persona in second fiddle form.  For the love of all that is fun unleash OBI.  Let our PG actually run the offense.  Tell RJ to pull himself up and be the man.  I'll pay to watch that.  But none of those things can happen if Randle isn't moved or shelved.

I get this.

I felt the same way, or a variation of this. I thought that either Thibs or Randle had to go, because it's insane to imagine they'll both return and yet everything will be magically different. Each had a major role in the team colossally underperforming.

(I do think Randle can be excellent, but he has to be managed and work in an offensive scheme that doesn't feel 30 years old.)

Moreover, I loved to watch Obi. The dude impresses me. Incredible native talent with an expanding arsenal of offensive moves Needed more minutes.

But yeah....

I guess with the arrival of Brunson, I've softened. Started to imagine that they must of course be preparing to use Julius in a new way. Because if they don't, and everything goes through Julius in his over-dribbling, ball-stopping glory, with Obi on the bench no less, we are...

.....fucked.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 09, 2022, 06:19:40 PM
Elephant

do you support a deal of Toppin and Quickey plus four number ones for Mitchell?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 09, 2022, 06:50:37 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on August 09, 2022, 06:02:15 PM
There is absolutely no rational reason to supplant Obi with Melo.

Does that roster allow us to go deep into the Eastern Conference Playoffs

Its a better team.

You don't  only improve a team when you can justify that there will be a Finals run.

Highly debateable. 

And utterly demented. 

Obi is 24.

Melo is 38.

I mean, are you fucking high? 

Doesn't even tally on the instant gratification register. 

Melo is one step over the line...
Title: PS: Riddle Me THAT
Post by: chipstern on August 09, 2022, 07:32:30 PM
If Carmelo is such a stud muffin, why haven't the Lakers snarfed him right back up?

They are not exactly swimming in talent, are they? 

Russell Westbrook         $47,063,478   $0   $0   $0   $0
LeBron James              $44,474,988   $0   $0   $0   $0
Anthony Davis              $37,980,720   $40,600,080   $43,219,440   $0   $0
Talen Horton-Tucker      $10,260,000   $11,020,000   $0   $0   $0
Lonnie Walker              $6,479,000   $0   $0   $0   $0
Kendrick Nunn              $5,250,000   $0   $0   $0   $0
Stanley Johnson            $2,351,521   $0   $0   $0   $0
Damian Jones              $2,298,385   $2,586,665   $0   $0   $0
Juan Toscano-Anderson $2,133,278   $0   $0   $0   $0
Troy Brown               $1,968,175   $0   $0   $0   $0
Thomas Bryant             $1,968,175

Your main squeeze, Horton-Tucker shot .416% from the field, and a whopping .267% from trey, in 25.2 minutes a night. 

Melo shot .441% and .375% from trey in 26 minutes a night.  Pretty efficient. 

So why haven't the Lakers snarfed Melo right back up, riddle me that oh Sacred Prophet Kiid?  I need your guidance and insights.  DOESN'T MELO MAKE THEM A SIGNIIFCANTLY BETTER TEAM?
Title: Re: Time to admit
Post by: Kam on August 09, 2022, 07:40:28 PM
Quote from: elephant on August 09, 2022, 06:09:46 PM
Quote from: Kam on August 09, 2022, 12:50:48 AM
Julius Randle should be dealt before the start of camp.

If he is still here then it's the same team with the same ceiling and same weaknesses and redundancies for another year.   ie. Not as fun as it could be with out Randle's #1 guy Persona in second fiddle form.  For the love of all that is fun unleash OBI.  Let our PG actually run the offense.  Tell RJ to pull himself up and be the man.  I'll pay to watch that.  But none of those things can happen if Randle isn't moved or shelved.

I get this.

I felt the same way, or a variation of this. I thought that either Thibs or Randle had to go, because it's insane to imagine they'll both return and yet everything will be magically different. Each had a major role in the team colossally underperforming.

(I do think Randle can be excellent, but he has to be managed and work in an offensive scheme that doesn't feel 30 years old.)

Moreover, I loved to watch Obi. The dude impresses me. Incredible native talent with an expanding arsenal of offensive moves Needed more minutes.

But yeah....

I guess with the arrival of Brunson, I've softened. Started to imagine that they must of course be preparing to use Julius in a new way. Because if they don't, and everything goes through Julius in his over-dribbling, ball-stopping glory, with Obi on the bench no less, we are...

.....fucked.

I give Leon Rose too much credit for letting that nightmare scenario unfold.
Prove me right Leon.
Please.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 09, 2022, 08:16:00 PM
So why havent the Lakers snarfed Melo right back up, riddle me that oh Sacred Prophet Kiid?  I need your guidance and insights.  DOESNT MELO MAKE THEM A SIGNIIFCANTLY BETTER TEAM?


Pretty sure LA would tell you they are waiting to  see how things shake out with Russ/others.

Add Max Christie, Cole Swider and Scottie Pippen Jr...couple of others recently signed as training camp dudes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 09, 2022, 08:19:31 PM
This dude is interesting


https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/javante-mccoy-1.html
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 09, 2022, 08:25:22 PM
I guess with the arrival of Brunson, I have softened. Started to imagine that they must of course be preparing to use Julius in a new way. Because if they dont, and everything goes through Julius in his over dribbling, ball stopping glory, with Obi on the bench no less, we are   



I don't think it is PLANNED so much as it EVOLVES.  Bringing in Brunson is BOUND TO change Julius at least a little bit.

And I think if Obi is here (figure an 80+ per cent chance), he will be on the court plenty.    I will say 22-25 minutes per (after 11 and 17 his first two seasons)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 09, 2022, 08:29:17 PM
Moreover, I loved to watch Obi. The dude impresses me. Incredible native talent with an expanding arsenal of offensive moves Needed more minutes.


Problem is he is old NBA

Can you imagine training this kid (dad or whoever) for years to play the post then finding that post play is all but gone in the league?  Good thing he has proven to be a chameleon of sorts.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 09, 2022, 08:29:57 PM
Wondering if any are still pissed about that draft.

heh - doesnt seem so
Title: HoHum
Post by: chipstern on August 10, 2022, 11:56:01 AM
Another day, and no Donovan Mitchell Trade. 

Praise The Lord. 

Meanwhile...

Kyrie Irving insists he doesn't "hate" Steve Nash or Sean Marks [drafted at #44 by the Knicks in 1998, yet ANOTHER season when we had no #1 pick, a pointed reminder for all of those dipshits who think we should give Danny Ainge five #1 picks PLUS IQ, Toppin and Grimes for fucking Donovan Mitchell].

Meanwhile Durant's camp is trying to spin his multiple hissy fits and his bid to become the new GM of the Nyets [LeBron's tenure has been rather up and down with the Lakers]. 

Durant is one of the all time greats, and I have nothing but awe and respect for this game and dedication to the sport.  But he is a spoiled, petulant dweeb, who just submarined whatever trade value he might have. 

There is going to be no Nyets fire sale, he has a four year extension worth close to $200 Million, and if he wants to play chicken, no problema, he won't get paid. 

He could've stayed with the Warriors, but he wanted HIS OWN BRAND.

Now he has it. 

ASSHOLE. 

PS: Did I mention how the Knicks should bail on Donovan Mitchell? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 10, 2022, 12:25:44 PM
Kyrie Irving insists he doesnt hate Steve Nash or Sean Marks  drafted at number 44 by the Knicks in 1998, yet ANOTHER season when we had no number 1 pick, a pointed reminder for all of those dipshits who think we should give Danny Ainge five number 1 picks PLUS IQ, Toppin and Grimes for fucking Donovan Mitchell .



No Grimes

FOUR number ones (which we will be dealing somewhere, not using)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on August 10, 2022, 12:38:10 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on August 09, 2022, 06:19:40 PM
Elephant

do you support a deal of Toppin and Quickey plus four number ones for Mitchell?

Yeah.

The Knicks would certainly take that offer.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 10, 2022, 01:00:03 PM
Speaking of LA - havent read it but saw this headline -

Darvin Ham to run Lakers offense through Davis.

Should be cool.  Hoping for his good health.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 10, 2022, 04:10:43 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 09, 2022, 06:50:37 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on August 09, 2022, 06:02:15 PM
There is absolutely no rational reason to supplant Obi with Melo.

Does that roster allow us to go deep into the Eastern Conference Playoffs

Its a better team.

You don't  only improve a team when you can justify that there will be a Finals run.

Highly debateable. 

And utterly demented. 

Obi is 24.

Melo is 38.

I mean, are you fucking high? 

Doesn't even tally on the instant gratification register. 

Melo is one step over the line...

Wether or not he is high he is dead set on voting for a terrorist organizations pyramid scheme wherever and whenever possible.

High or not, he is clearly out of his fucking mind.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 10, 2022, 04:16:05 PM
Quote from: elephant on August 10, 2022, 12:38:10 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on August 09, 2022, 06:19:40 PM
Elephant

do you support a deal of Toppin and Quickey plus four number ones for Mitchell?

Yeah.

The Knicks would certainly take that offer.

Fuck that.

If Ainge wants Toppin and Quickley, he has to take Fournier and he gets 3 number ones, only one ours and that top 5 protected.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 10, 2022, 04:30:22 PM
Yes, Fournier is in that deal.  Makes it 25.7 mil going out and 30.3  coming in  . 
 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 10, 2022, 07:58:44 PM
Ainge will have to send us picks if he wants to get off Mitchell that way. What is he offering in terms of outgoing Utah firsts?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 10, 2022, 10:40:43 PM
Interesting


https://dailyknicks.com/2022/08/10/espn-knicks-free-agent-carmelo-anthony-best-option/
Title: MORE BS
Post by: chipstern on August 11, 2022, 07:55:34 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 10, 2022, 10:40:43 PM
Interesting


https://dailyknicks.com/2022/08/10/espn-knicks-free-agent-carmelo-anthony-best-option/

A pants load predicated on the presumption that we are offloading Obi to Utah. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 11, 2022, 11:35:12 AM
Someone has to go, Chip - if we are to make the deal.  Piecing together what is left shouldnt be spit upon.  if you think we should just stand pat if Obi leaves just say so.  Maybe Reddish gets minutes at the 4 or Hertenstein more 4, Sims moving up a notch at the 5 and a free agent BIG added?   What is your pleasure?  Just stating a third year guy who doesnt even start is an untouchable for an All Star in return is something that would not have your basketball heroes (scribes, anaylysts, other) complimenting you for thought.
Title: Eureka
Post by: chipstern on August 11, 2022, 02:53:06 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on August 11, 2022, 11:35:12 AM
Someone has to go, Chip - if we are to make the deal.  Piecing together what is left shouldnt be spit upon.  if you think we should just stand pat if Obi leaves just say so.  Maybe Reddish gets minutes at the 4 or Hertenstein more 4, Sims moving up a notch at the 5 and a free agent BIG added?   What is your pleasure?  Just stating a third year guy who doesnt even start is an untouchable for an All Star in return is something that would not have your basketball heroes (scribes, anaylysts, other) complimenting you for thought.

Yes the same geniuses that were Cukoo For Cooca Puffs that we HAD TO GET CARMELO at any cost. 

All of these projections? 

I do not believe you can fathom how few fucks I have to give about this whole steaming pile of jive. 

I have ZERO interest in pursuing a mega deal for Donovan Mitchell.

I believe the whole idea is overhyped, and the projections overheated. 

Ironic, as in my mind, this is the second coming of THE ORIGINAL CARMELO DEAL. 

As you'll recall, Anthony's insistence on getting a trade done during the season, rather than waiting for summer free agency, was predicated on him GETTING HIS GUARANTEED MONEY out front [I believe there was the threat of a lock out at the time], and it cost our team significant assets, including A POINT GUARD who was having his best season as a pro, and young, rookie contract depth of such import, that we subsequently could only get to the first round twice and the second round once in the playoffs, before subsequently going right in the crapper, because we had sundered all of our young talent and such significant draft capital that we were not able to construct an enduring competive squad around Anthony. 

Melo played 27 games in 2010-2011. his first, post-trade season [42-40], and were whupped 4-0 in the first round of the playoffs by the Celtics. 

In the labor dispute shortened 2011-2012 second season [36-30], Anthony significantly undermined Coach D'Antoni, farted in the general direction of Jeremy Lin and the success and fan embrace he enjoyed, leading to D'Antoni's departure and a significant late season run under interim coach Mike Woodson, only to fall 4-1 to the Heat in the first round. 

In 2012-13, as Amare's body gave out, we cobbled together a one and done group of veterans, such as Jason Kidd, Rasheed Wallace, Marcus Camby, Kenyon Martin, Pablo Prigioni, Steve Novak and Kurt Thomas, as Melo enjoyed his best season, averaging 28.7 per game, and in tandem with Tyson Chandler, J.R. Smith, Raymond Felton and Iman Shumpert, we went [54-28], beat thje Celtics 4-2 in the first round, falling 4-2 to the Pacers in the second round.

FROM THERE, The Melo Epoch Descended Into A Giant Liquid Fart.   

In 2013-2014, the BARGNANI Knicks, returned to Earth, Anthony having one of his best statistical seasons, with 27.4-8.1-3.1, but we fell to 37-45, and failed to make the playoffs. 

ALL DOWNHILL FROM THERE, as 2014-2015 ushered in the PHOOL JAGOFF EPOCH and we went 17-65; 32-50 in 2015-2016; 31-51 in 2016-2017, marked by the infamous Phool Jagoff public dressing down of Carmelo, relieved that summer by Scott Perry finding a taker in OKC, for Enes Kanter, Doug McDermott and the #2 pick which turned into Mitchell Robinson. 

SO in Melo's Seven Seasons: 42-40, 36-30, 54-28, 37-45, 17-65, 32-50, 31-51

Two barely over .500, a one and done with a group of game bur ancient vets, and a descent into hell. 

Melo's insistence on GETTING HIS MONEY, the cost of his trades, and his contract shenningans, basically hamstrung us personnel wise long term.  Plus, PLUS, a great player, but did he make his teammates better? 

NOW THERE WERE MANY REASONS WHY THE TRADE DIDN'T PAN OUT, not all of them Anthony's fault, but significantly, we gave up so much young talent and trade assets, and were subsequently hamstrung by Carmelo's ME FIRST insistance on a max deal, and Jagoff's strangulation by triangulation, that we could not move forward. 

So you'll forgive me if I am NOT NOSTALGIC FOR A RETURN ENGAGEMENT. 

Nor am I enthusiastic for YET ANOTHER SELF-IMMOLATING PURSUIT OF A SHINY OBJECT AT ANY COST. 

Again, Donovan Mitchell is a significant talent, he is a winner, but he is no Luka Doncic.  While his Jazz have been a perennial playoff team, they never advanced beyond the second round, which as a Knicks fan, would sure look sweet, given our 20+Plus Year journey in the wilderness. 

Still, the price is WACK. 

I like our talent. 

I am perfectlyy content to go to war with Brunson/Rose/Quickley/McBride at PG, Fournier/Grimes at SG, Barrett/Reddish at SF, Randle/Toppin at PF/C, Robinson/Hartenstein at C. 

This OBSESSION with Donovan Mitchell IS TOTAL BULLSHIT, and the idea of shipping out Obi, Grimes, IQ PLUS Draft Capital to acquire Donovan Mitchell makes me sick to my stomach. 

And offloading Obi because he is behind Randle, is moronic on a similar plane as when we offloaded Strickland because he was behind Mark Jackson.  Melo?  Mo Cheeks? 

And I'm supposed to get excited for 2022-23 because we paid a king's ransom for Donovan Mitchell, and brought back Carmelo Anthony at thirtyFUCKINGeight.  FUCK CARMELO ANTHONY.  I have zero nostalgia for a second act

So we can spend the next decade watching Obi, Quentin and Immanuel enjoying significant careers, and what those draft picks turn into.  And wondering why Donovan Mitchell didn't translate into PLAYOFF SUCCESS to such a degree tha Ainge is ready to tear it all down.  HELLO?
 , or pan out any better in NY than he did in Utah, stats notwithstanding. 

FUCK IT
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on August 11, 2022, 05:13:26 PM
So as site historian, Chip, would you mind listing the young guys the Knicks have selected in the last 20 years that they let go, and then saw develop into stars and superstars on other teams.

Because I'd really like to see that list.

Maybe that might make more sense of the constant pipe dream you relate that RJ will be a star and Grimes, yeah, he's gonna be great, and Obi, o boy he'll be a star, and don't sleep on Quickley, he's gonna make that jump and.....and.....and....

It's pretty exhausting.

Men that prove themselves in the highest strata of the NBA remain as rare as hen's teeth. That's why we make the fucking deal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on August 11, 2022, 05:15:24 PM
BTW, my last note has nothing to do with the Melo talk, which is just some August bullshit discussion because nothing else is going on.
Title: Once Were Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 11, 2022, 07:24:13 PM
Quote from: elephant on August 11, 2022, 05:13:26 PM
So as site historian, Chip, would you mind listing the young guys the Knicks have selected in the last 20 years that they let go, and then saw develop into stars and superstars on other teams.

Because I'd really like to see that list.

Maybe that might make more sense of the constant pipe dream you relate that RJ will be a star and Grimes, yeah, he's gonna be great, and Obi, o boy he'll be a star, and don't sleep on Quickley, he's gonna make that jump and.....and.....and....

It's pretty exhausting.

Men that prove themselves in the highest strata of the NBA remain as rare as hen's teeth. That's why we make the fucking deal.

Disagree.  That's why you DON'T MAKE THE DEAL.  When you draft well, you don't, to may way of thinking, offload it for shiny objects.  YOU DEVELOP IT.  And when the fruit is ripe, THEN do you contemplate exchanging it: value for value. 

You have to be patient.  I view the Mitchell Deal as a shakedown.  Compromising our future and our present.  Unless Ainge gets a grip, FUCK HIM. 

If you go back and look at Knicks DRAFT BOARDS for the past 30 Years, you will notice many a year when we had NO #1 picks, and sometimes, no #2 picks.  Sometimes weak drafts.  Sometimes weak selections.  And when we did score talent, we dumped it, never you mind players we lost out on from traded #1 picks [Scottie Pippen, Joakim Noah, LaMarcus Aldridge, Gordon Hayward, Jaamal Murray]

Let's see, what pups have we let go.  Off the top of my head. 

Rod Strickland
John Wallace
Nene Hillario
Trevor Ariza
Channing Frye
David Lee
Nate Rolbinson
Iman Shumpert
Danillo Gallinari
Wilson Chandler
Timothy Mozgov
Timmy Hardaway
Kristaps Porzingis

Our drafts since 1992

1992: Hubert Davis [#20]
1993: [No Picks]
1994: Monty Williams [#24], Charlie Ward [#26]
1995: [No Picks]
1996: John Wallace [#18], Walter McCarty [#19], Donate Jones [#21]
1997: John Thomas [#25]
1998: DeMarco Johnson [#38], Sean Marls [#44]
1999: Fredceric Weis [#15], J.R. Koch [#46]
2000: Donnell Harvey [#22]
2001: Michael Wright [#39], Eric Chenowith [#43]
2002: Nene Hillario [#7], Milos Vujanic [#36]
2003: Mike Sweetney [#9] Marceij Lampe [#30], Slvako Vranes [#39]
2004: Trevor Ariza [#43]
2005: Channing Frye [#8], David Lee [#30], Dijon Thompson [#54]
2006: Renaldo Balkman [#20], Mardy Collins [#29]
2007: Wilson Chandler [#23]
2008: Danillo Gallinari [#6]
2009: Jordan Hill [#8]
2010: Andy Rautins [#38], Landry Fields [#39]
2011: Iman Shumpert [#17]
2012: Kostas Papanikolaou [#48]
2013: Timmy Hardaway [#24]
2014: Cleanthony Early [#34], Thanasis Antetokounmpo [#51]
2015: Kristaps Porzingis [#4]
2016: [No Picks]
2017: Frank Ntilikina [#8], Damyeon Dotson [#44]
2018: Kevin Knox [#9], Mitchell Robinson [#36]
2019: R.J. Barrett [#3], Kyle Guy [#55], Ignas Brazdeikis [#47]
2020: Obi Toppin [#8], Leandro Balmaro [#23], Immanuel Quickley [#25]
2021: Kai Jones [#19], Keon Johnson [#21], Quentin Grimes [#25], Jeremiah Robinson-Earl [#32], Rokas Jokubaitis [#34], Miles McBride [#36], Jericho Sims [#58]
2022: Ousmane Dieng [#11], Trevor Keels [#42]

Not sure what we can glean from this list: Ntilikina was a bust, Robinson was a keeper, Knox and a 2021 #1 [via Charlotte] got us Cam Reddish [#10, 2019]

But from the Leon Rose Drafts & Trades: Toppin, Quickley, Grimes, Jokubaitis, McBride, Sims, Reddish, Keels. 

I understand that you feel as though I am wildly overestimating the upside of these puppies.

I preach patience.

WHY?

Let's look at competitive Knicks Teams Of The Late 1960s & 1970s, when there were many more rounds, and a lot fewer teams, and how they developed youth, and didn't overpay in trades.   

1963: Art Heyman [#2]
1964: Jim Barnes [#3], Willis Reed [#10], Howard Komives [#15], Emmette Bryant [#55]
1965: Bill Bradley [#2], Dave Stallworth [#5], Dick Van Arsdale [#13],
1966: Cazzie Russell [#1]
1967: Walt Frazier [#5], Phil Jackson [#17], Mike Riordan [#128]
1968: Bill Hosket [#10], Donnie May [#30]

Let's see. 

Van Arsdale was an excellent player for the Knicks but they lost him in the expansion draft to the Phoenix Suns, along with Emmette Bryant. 

The Knicks traded Johnny Green, Johnny Egan, Jim Barnes, and cash in 1965 for Walt Bellamy, also trading Bob Boozer to the Lakers for Dick Barnett.  Howard Komives was, I believe the nation's leading scorer when the Knicks drafted him.  They packaged Komives and Bellamy [a Hall Of Famer center] for Dave DeBusherre.  This opened up the PG slot for Walt Frazier and allowed them to slot Dave at PF, and slide Willis over from PF to Center, while concluding Bill Bradley was not a guard but a SF, while Cazzie and Stallworth and Riordan were wings off the bench, and Jackson backed up the center and PF. 

Eventually, Stallworth and Riordan were packaged for Earl Monroe.  And when Willis went down, Cazzie was traded for Jerry Lucas. 

So the Knicks nurtured their puppies from 1964-1968, lost two to the expansion draft, and werre prudent in how they packaged them in trades. 

Emmette Bryant
Dick Van Arsdale
Howard Komives
Willis Reed
Bill Bradley
Walt Frazier
Phil Jackson  
Dave Stallworth
Mike Riordan
Cazzie Russell

So, of our puppies, we lost Bryant and Van Arsdale to the expansion draft. 
We converted Komives into Dave D
We converted Stallworth and Riordan to Monroe
We converted Cazzie To Lucas

Reed, Bradley, Frazier and Jackson were lifers. 
Title: Re: Once Were Knicks
Post by: elephant on August 11, 2022, 08:50:40 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 11, 2022, 07:24:13 PM
Quote from: elephant on August 11, 2022, 05:13:26 PM
So as site historian, Chip, would you mind listing the young guys the Knicks have selected in the last 20 years that they let go, and then saw develop into stars and superstars on other teams.

Because I'd really like to see that list.

Maybe that might make more sense of the constant pipe dream you relate that RJ will be a star and Grimes, yeah, he's gonna be great, and Obi, o boy he'll be a star, and don't sleep on Quickley, he's gonna make that jump and.....and.....and....

It's pretty exhausting.

Men that prove themselves in the highest strata of the NBA remain as rare as hen's teeth. That's why we make the fucking deal.

Disagree.  That's why you DON'T MAKE THE DEAL.  When you draft well, you don't, to may way of thinking, offload it for shiny objects.  YOU DEVELOP IT.  And when the fruit is ripe, THEN do you contemplate exchanging it: value for value. 


Why the constant objectification with a "shiny object?"

Are we talking about a star who is old and over the hill?
Are we talking about a star who is a selfish head case?
Are we talking about a star who has a career of debilitating injuries?

No? Then we're NOT talking about something unwisely speculative. We're NOT talking about something illusory.

We're talking about a 25-year-old all star. And to get a star, yeah, you often have to give away the "promise" attached to other players, knowing that such promise is rarely realized.
Title: Re: Once Were Knicks
Post by: elephant on August 11, 2022, 08:55:49 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 11, 2022, 07:24:13 PM
Quote from: elephant on August 11, 2022, 05:13:26 PM
So as site historian, Chip, would you mind listing the young guys the Knicks have selected in the last 20 years that they let go, and then saw develop into stars and superstars on other teams.

Because I'd really like to see that list.

Maybe that might make more sense of the constant pipe dream you relate that RJ will be a star and Grimes, yeah, he's gonna be great, and Obi, o boy he'll be a star, and don't sleep on Quickley, he's gonna make that jump and.....and.....and....

It's pretty exhausting.

Men that prove themselves in the highest strata of the NBA remain as rare as hen's teeth. That's why we make the fucking deal.
.....

I understand that you feel as though I am wildly overestimating the upside of these puppies.

I preach patience.

WHY?

Let's look at competitive Knicks Teams Of The Late 1960s & 1970s, when there were many more rounds, and a lot fewer teams, and how they developed youth, and didn't overpay in trades.   

1963: Art Heyman [#2]
1964: Jim Barnes [#3], Willis Reed [#10], Howard Komives [#15], Emmette Bryant [#55]
1965: Bill Bradley [#2], Dave Stallworth [#5], Dick Van Arsdale [#13],
1966: Cazzie Russell [#1]
1967: Walt Frazier [#5], Phil Jackson [#17], Mike Riordan [#128]
1968: Bill Hosket [#10], Donnie May [#30]

Let's see. 

Van Arsdale was an excellent player for the Knicks but they lost him in the expansion draft to the Phoenix Suns, along with Emmette Bryant. 

The Knicks traded Johnny Green, Johnny Egan, Jim Barnes, and cash in 1965 for Walt Bellamy, also trading Bob Boozer to the Lakers for Dick Barnett.  Howard Komives was, I believe the nation's leading scorer when the Knicks drafted him.  They packaged Komives and Bellamy [a Hall Of Famer center] for Dave DeBusherre.  This opened up the PG slot for Walt Frazier and allowed them to slot Dave at PF, and slide Willis over from PF to Center, while concluding Bill Bradley was not a guard but a SF, while Cazzie and Stallworth and Riordan were wings off the bench, and Jackson backed up the center and PF. 

Eventually, Stallworth and Riordan were packaged for Earl Monroe.  And when Willis went down, Cazzie was traded for Jerry Lucas. 

So the Knicks nurtured their puppies from 1964-1968, lost two to the expansion draft, and werre prudent in how they packaged them in trades. 

Emmette Bryant
Dick Van Arsdale
Howard Komives
Willis Reed
Bill Bradley
Walt Frazier
Phil Jackson  
Dave Stallworth
Mike Riordan
Cazzie Russell

So, of our puppies, we lost Bryant and Van Arsdale to the expansion draft. 
We converted Komives into Dave D
We converted Stallworth and Riordan to Monroe
We converted Cazzie To Lucas

Reed, Bradley, Frazier and Jackson were lifers.

I appreciate (and learn something) from your history here.

But might it be a weakness of your argument that you have to reach back 45 years to make your point?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 11, 2022, 09:56:10 PM
I Knew Chip was coming back with STRICKLAND for Cheeks, so I found this for the group:

Dude was NOT a good Knickerbocker team guy

https://www.nytimes.com/1990/02/22/sports/knicks-trade-strickland-to-spurs-for-cheeks.html#:~:text=Rod%20Strickland%2C%20the%20unhappy%20Knick,%2Dyear%2Dold%20Maurice%20Cheeks.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 11, 2022, 10:33:43 PM
Are we talking about a star who is a selfish head case?



Do we even know anymore - who is and isn't?
Title: Re: Once Were Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 12, 2022, 12:05:30 AM
Quote from: elephant on August 11, 2022, 08:55:49 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 11, 2022, 07:24:13 PM
Quote from: elephant on August 11, 2022, 05:13:26 PM
So as site historian, Chip, would you mind listing the young guys the Knicks have selected in the last 20 years that they let go, and then saw develop into stars and superstars on other teams.

Because I'd really like to see that list.

Maybe that might make more sense of the constant pipe dream you relate that RJ will be a star and Grimes, yeah, he's gonna be great, and Obi, o boy he'll be a star, and don't sleep on Quickley, he's gonna make that jump and.....and.....and....

It's pretty exhausting.

Men that prove themselves in the highest strata of the NBA remain as rare as hen's teeth. That's why we make the fucking deal.
.....

I understand that you feel as though I am wildly overestimating the upside of these puppies.

I preach patience.

WHY?

Let's look at competitive Knicks Teams Of The Late 1960s & 1970s, when there were many more rounds, and a lot fewer teams, and how they developed youth, and didn't overpay in trades.   

1963: Art Heyman [#2]
1964: Jim Barnes [#3], Willis Reed [#10], Howard Komives [#15], Emmette Bryant [#55]
1965: Bill Bradley [#2], Dave Stallworth [#5], Dick Van Arsdale [#13],
1966: Cazzie Russell [#1]
1967: Walt Frazier [#5], Phil Jackson [#17], Mike Riordan [#128]
1968: Bill Hosket [#10], Donnie May [#30]

Let's see. 

Van Arsdale was an excellent player for the Knicks but they lost him in the expansion draft to the Phoenix Suns, along with Emmette Bryant. 

The Knicks traded Johnny Green, Johnny Egan, Jim Barnes, and cash in 1965 for Walt Bellamy, also trading Bob Boozer to the Lakers for Dick Barnett.  Howard Komives was, I believe the nation's leading scorer when the Knicks drafted him.  They packaged Komives and Bellamy [a Hall Of Famer center] for Dave DeBusherre.  This opened up the PG slot for Walt Frazier and allowed them to slot Dave at PF, and slide Willis over from PF to Center, while concluding Bill Bradley was not a guard but a SF, while Cazzie and Stallworth and Riordan were wings off the bench, and Jackson backed up the center and PF. 

Eventually, Stallworth and Riordan were packaged for Earl Monroe.  And when Willis went down, Cazzie was traded for Jerry Lucas. 

So the Knicks nurtured their puppies from 1964-1968, lost two to the expansion draft, and werre prudent in how they packaged them in trades. 

Emmette Bryant
Dick Van Arsdale
Howard Komives
Willis Reed
Bill Bradley
Walt Frazier
Phil Jackson  
Dave Stallworth
Mike Riordan
Cazzie Russell

So, of our puppies, we lost Bryant and Van Arsdale to the expansion draft. 
We converted Komives into Dave D
We converted Stallworth and Riordan to Monroe
We converted Cazzie To Lucas

Reed, Bradley, Frazier and Jackson were lifers.

I appreciate (and learn something) from your history here.

But might it be a weakness of your argument that you have to reach back 45 years to make your point?

Might
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 12, 2022, 11:54:10 AM
History of San Antonio is fascinating, actually. 

In mist of a 6 win season they deal Cheeks for Strickland (L Brown said to be one of the only coaches that liked Rod) - and they win 55 again, then fall to 47 wins - and DONT KEEP ROD as a free agent.

Moving to PG by committee SA then runs off 57, 62 and 59 win seasons prior to their tank year when they got Timmy D, with Pop coming down from exec offices to take the bench for the last 64 games..

Immediately back to 56 wins the following season, then 37-13 and away they went......

Back to the ubertalented RS...

Contribution from Strickland was to show them what wasnt working.  Rod did OK in Portland but lost 4 consecutive years in first round.  Moved on to WAS and led league  in assists at age 31, making second team All NBA. Lost again in first round - and didnt appear in playoffs the three subsequent WIZ years.

STRICKLAND WAS 1-11 IN PLAYOFF SERIES, the one win being the 3-gamer vs Philly his rookie year - before we lost the CHI in 6 (Mark Jax played 41 of the 48 Game 6 minutes.  Stricks got just 12 minutes per game over the 2 series - shooting 22/49, 1-1 on 3s, 9-17 from line)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 12, 2022, 12:18:25 PM
None of the guys the Knicks drafted recently is as good as Donovan Mitchell. 
He has more All-Star nods than the 30 year group does combined.

So Elephant's point stands.


Chip also makes the point of not overspending which is never a bad thing.
But I take some issue with "waiting til the fruit is ripe to make a deal" as we won't know if there will be any deal to be had and don't know when such ripeness wil happen. If ever.

Are we willing to watch Mitchell get traded to another team, content that we didn't overpay?  This is the crux of it.   

Personally, I am ok with it.  But i can understand the desire to get Mitchel at (nearly) any cost.


Title: So Far So Good
Post by: chipstern on August 12, 2022, 12:44:37 PM
Quote from: Kam on August 12, 2022, 12:18:25 PM
None of the guys the Knicks drafted recently is as good as Donovan Mitchell. 
He has more All-Star nods than the 30 year group does combined.

So Elephant's point stands.


Chip also makes the point of not overspending which is never a bad thing.
But I take some issue with "waiting til the fruit is ripe to make a deal" as we won't know if there will be any deal to be had and don't know when such ripeness wil happen. If ever.

Are we willing to watch Mitchell get traded to another team, content that we didn't overpay?  This is the crux of it.   

Personally, I am ok with it.  But i can understand the desire to get Mitchel at (nearly) any cost.



At ANY Cost?

Not an optimum bargaining posture. 
Title: The Question
Post by: carlos123 on August 12, 2022, 01:39:20 PM
The question remains.

Why does Danny want to trade him?
Title: Re: The Question
Post by: chipstern on August 12, 2022, 02:24:20 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on August 12, 2022, 01:39:20 PM
The question remains.

Why does Danny want to trade him?

Indeed. 

WHY

Why DOES Danny WANT TO TRADE HIM?

Rudy Gobert just turned 30. 

Donovan Mitchell turns 26 in September. 

Seems like a nice piece to build around. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 12, 2022, 02:44:03 PM
It is hard to build a defense around a guy who is barely six-one who is not particularly quick or dialed in on that end.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on August 12, 2022, 04:55:50 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 12, 2022, 02:44:03 PM
It is hard to build a defense around a guy who is barely six-one who is not particularly quick or dialed in on that end.

Jesus.
Title: Re: The Question
Post by: elephant on August 12, 2022, 04:58:39 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 12, 2022, 02:24:20 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on August 12, 2022, 01:39:20 PM
The question remains.

Why does Danny want to trade him?

Indeed. 

WHY

Why DOES Danny WANT TO TRADE HIM?

Rudy Gobert just turned 30. 

Donovan Mitchell turns 26 in September. 

Seems like a nice piece to build around.

I thought that question was answered recently.

They trade him because it's clear he won't be staying around after his contract is up.

(I know this may come as a shock to all those lovers of Salt Lake City nightlife).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 12, 2022, 05:37:52 PM
Quote from: elephant on August 12, 2022, 04:55:50 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 12, 2022, 02:44:03 PM
It is hard to build a defense around a guy who is barely six-one who is not particularly quick or dialed in on that end.

Jesus.

Was six-four in sandals with handles that could part seas. He would throw up prayers and nine out of ten times they would go in.

DM is not that player, bless his heart.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 12, 2022, 05:39:41 PM
Also there are plenty of homeless in SLC. Jesus would play there, rendering into Cesar what is Cesars, over the course of his career. 
Title: My Ennui
Post by: chipstern on August 12, 2022, 06:01:25 PM
Quote from: elephant on August 12, 2022, 04:55:50 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 12, 2022, 02:44:03 PM
It is hard to build a defense around a guy who is barely six-one who is not particularly quick or dialed in on that end.

Jesus.

My lack of enthusiasm for an all-in trade is not predicated on Donovan's talent level. 

No, he ain't the greatest defender in the world.  But while not a great defender, he is surely a game one, with a 6'11" wingspan.  Brunson is not the greatest defender in the world, either, which is why, Brother E, I do not share your ennui for Brother Grimes, who is a muscular 6'5", and who really gets into your body on the defensive end. 

And as for being 6'1", like Brunson, he has a tree trunk stout body, and while JB is 195, DM is 215. 

Defense?  Sometimes the best defense is a good offense, and DM really forces the action, particularly getting to the hoop and in the midrange.  And he gets to the line and facilitates.

Mitchell [2021-22]

67 games at 33.8 mpg

9.2 total makes out of 20.5 attempts for a .448%   
3.5 3-pt makes out of 9.8 attempts for a .355%
5.7 2-pt nakes out of 10.8 attempts for a .533%
4.0 FT makes out of 4.7 Attempts for a .853%   
4.2 rebounds
5.3 assists
1.5 steals
3.0 turnovers
25.9 PPG

PRETTY IMPRESSIVE [1.5 steals]

Brunson [2021-22]

79 games    at 31.9 mpg

6.4 makes per 12.8 attempts for a .502 %
1.2 3pt makes per 3.2 attempts for a .373%
5.2 2pt makes per 9.6 attempts for a .545%
2.3 FTS made per 2.7 attempts for a .840%   
3.9 rebounds
4.8 assists
0.8 steals
1.6 turnovers
16.3 PPG

Purely from a statistical standpoint, Brunson is more efficient on roughly 8 attempts less per game.  Expect the attempts to spike. 

In any event, there seems to be a certain REDUNDANCY having both Brunson AND Mitchell as our starting guards.

Now having a second guard who can score at such a clip as DM, while handing out comprable assists to Brunson [5.3 vs 4.8].  However, 20.8 attempts per game is pretty ball dominant. 

Now we disagree on the upside of Grimes and Quickley, but both have facilitating chops they are working on.  Not at Mitchell stature as we speak, but just saying. 

Now, just for giggles, because in no WayShapeForm am I suggesting that Fournier is vaguely in Mitchell's class. 

Still

Fournier

80 games at 29.5 mpg   

5.0 makes in 12.1 takes for a .417%
3.0 3pt makes for 7.7 takes for a .389%
2.0 2pt makes for 4.3 takes at a .465% clip
1.0 FT makes for 1.4   makes for a .708%   
2.6 rebounds
2.1 assists
1.0 steal
1.3 turnovers
14.1 ppg

Quickley

78 games at 23.1 mpg

3.6 makes in 9.3 attempts for a .392%
1.8 3 point makes in 5.1 attempts for a .346%
1.9 2 point makes in 4.2 attemtps for a .448%
2.3 FT makes for 2.6 attempts for a  .881%
3.2 rebounds
3.5 assists
0.7 steals
1.3 turnovers
11.3 ppg

Not very efficient, to be sure, though much of that was from the first 2/3 of the season. 

And Grimes was also very up and down, hot and cold, as he was this summer.  Streak shooter, but showed great attack mentality, defensive tenacity and facilitating skills...did I mention he is 6'5" 205, and only 22?  WHY DO YOU THINK AINGE COVETS HIM? 

So?

Would DM makes us better?

Sure would. 

Optimum match to Brunson?

Mmmmm, not really, but not chopped liver, either. 

Worth the price?

DEPENDS ON THE PRICE.

So far?

NO FUCKING SALE, dude. 
 
Title: Facil
Post by: chipstern on August 12, 2022, 06:04:17 PM
The strength of Jesus game was not his jumper, though it was respectable, but his crossover and passing skills.  Impeccable. 

(https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.1128614957.0549/mp,504x498,matte,f8f8f8,t-pad,600x600,f8f8f8.jpg)

Defense?

Dicey
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 12, 2022, 06:18:31 PM
He forced turnovers in the temple.
Title: #6
Post by: chipstern on August 12, 2022, 07:15:30 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 12, 2022, 06:18:31 PM
He forced turnovers in the temple.


(https://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/000/515/306/Wilt_russell_5_original.jpg?1290241317)

Centuries before Bill Russell.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/146/401638381_9b057774ae_z.jpg)
Title: This Just In Out Of Salt Lake City
Post by: chipstern on August 14, 2022, 12:01:54 PM
Reliable sources indicate that Danny Ainge is insisting on six #1 draft picks plus Quentin Grimes, Obi Toppin, Immanuel Quickley AND Jacob deGrom in any Donovan Mitchell transaction.

(https://c.tenor.com/9xBOcrRY8X8AAAAC/sold-auction.gif)

Sounds good to me. 

(https://c.tenor.com/hf_E9XCLkO8AAAAC/quentin-grimes.gif)

Be careful what you wish for Knicks fans.

(https://c.tenor.com/bcUiVWBaG5IAAAAd/jacob-degrom-degrom.gif)

Title: No Joke...YET
Post by: chipstern on August 14, 2022, 02:04:15 PM
(https://bl6pap004files.storage.live.com/y4mehfZuPjvpqJr4hfgmBYOuJ7Fy5Q_2cVPinYBK7OSFWwMjUR3EJsaQjnoN1JQ1dpf4V6kqiYKKX-gUimWvgxUy_fdj0ahY91xuEM_NLBSQvDoT8UvMHsJeiFSAcp3IDzgIYvLIL2bnEyDOx76S75DXzv0MuR5MgSdcX2Ia1Yd6iAOO7IuTwGyNLmzHlSO5zSWsBvQDgeJzc5Qx733aS9j3WuqlSFQ1gZop9CFEDfoDa0?width=201&height=231&cropmode=center)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 14, 2022, 02:43:30 PM
Ainge could be trying to end run Leon and deal with Dolan.

Otherwise he is looking forward to building around Mitchell, as one should.

What is our story with exhibit 10s, or another way who are the bit players showing up to camp?

Title: Dolan
Post by: chipstern on August 14, 2022, 06:35:42 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 14, 2022, 02:43:30 PM
Ainge could be trying to end run Leon and deal with Dolan.

Otherwise he is looking forward to building around Mitchell, as one should.

What is our story with exhibit 10s, or another way who are the bit players showing up to camp?

The last times Dolan interceded were on deals brokered by Masai Ujiri, in Denver AND in Toronto. 

In both cases, spineless/brainless Donnie Douche and Glenn Grunwald were taken to the cleaners on The Melo and Bargnani deals by Masai Ujiri. 

Jimmy The Jizz put his foot on the accelerator with the Melo deal, seemingly signed off or was napping on the Bargnani Deal, and SLAMMED HIS FOOT ON THE BRAKES on the last Masai Ujiri encounter, which would've brought Kyle Lowry to the Knicks--terrified that Masai was going to finger blast him yet again.  Debateable whether or not Lowry would've ascended in our broken culture as did on the tough love of Coach Dwayne Casey, who pushed him to ramp up his conditioning and believed in KL as his lead guard. 

Since dispensing with Phool Jagoff and Steve Mills, Dolan has been serenley content to remain beyond the fray with Leon Rose and Company ruddering the ship.  Not to mention that he has been roundly humliated in all of his pursuits of the GREAT STAR, from getting shut out by LeBron and Chris Bosh, to publically shat on by Kevin Durant and Kyrie. 

The fact that Rose and WWW and Aller and Perry and Perin have not allowed themselves to be bamboozled by fucking Ainge is reassuring.  Danny finger blasted the Wolves, and he figures that is now the template.  He is sadly mistaken.  My sense of things is that GMs league wise were utterly horrified by that transaction and are not lining up to give Danny Boy a reach around. 

Hey, maybe the price comes down to Earth, but it says here, Mitchell is the Jazz bell cow, not the Knicks', in 2022-23. 
Title: Re: No Joke...YET
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 14, 2022, 07:07:06 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 14, 2022, 02:04:15 PM
(https://bl6pap004files.storage.live.com/y4mehfZuPjvpqJr4hfgmBYOuJ7Fy5Q_2cVPinYBK7OSFWwMjUR3EJsaQjnoN1JQ1dpf4V6kqiYKKX-gUimWvgxUy_fdj0ahY91xuEM_NLBSQvDoT8UvMHsJeiFSAcp3IDzgIYvLIL2bnEyDOx76S75DXzv0MuR5MgSdcX2Ia1Yd6iAOO7IuTwGyNLmzHlSO5zSWsBvQDgeJzc5Qx733aS9j3WuqlSFQ1gZop9CFEDfoDa0?width=201&height=231&cropmode=center)


z e r o
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 14, 2022, 07:09:50 PM
The fact that Rose and WWW and Aller and Perry and Perin have not allowed themselves to be bamboozled by fucking Ainge is reassuring.  Danny finger blasted the Wolves, and he figures that is now the template.  He is sadly mistaken.  My sense of things is that GMs league wise were utterly horrified by that transaction and are not lining up to give Danny Boy a reach around.


Where do you suppose the Wolves' '23, '25, '27 and '29 picks might fall?  dont be so sure Utah does well with the Gobert deal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 14, 2022, 07:10:54 PM
Of course Danny may be just COLLECTING them so he can deal them for an ALL STAR.  What an interesting idea.
Title: Re: No Joke...YET
Post by: chipstern on August 14, 2022, 07:36:50 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on August 14, 2022, 07:07:06 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 14, 2022, 02:04:15 PM
(https://bl6pap004files.storage.live.com/y4mehfZuPjvpqJr4hfgmBYOuJ7Fy5Q_2cVPinYBK7OSFWwMjUR3EJsaQjnoN1JQ1dpf4V6kqiYKKX-gUimWvgxUy_fdj0ahY91xuEM_NLBSQvDoT8UvMHsJeiFSAcp3IDzgIYvLIL2bnEyDOx76S75DXzv0MuR5MgSdcX2Ia1Yd6iAOO7IuTwGyNLmzHlSO5zSWsBvQDgeJzc5Qx733aS9j3WuqlSFQ1gZop9CFEDfoDa0?width=201&height=231&cropmode=center)


z e r o

Smug Patronizing ASSHOLE For Rent

Will work for Lube & Kleenex.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 15, 2022, 01:12:19 PM
Gobert with 15 points and seven rebounds, and also Vincent Poirier with 14 points and 11 rebounds did the damage inside the paint. For the Italians, who also had a bad shooting day  66 per cent  FT, 32 per cent FG , the newest Utah addition Simone Fontecchio scored 24 points and Danilo Gallinari added 13, including the three that sent the game to overtime
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 15, 2022, 03:34:57 PM
http://dailyknicks.com/2022/08/15/3-area-knicks-cam-reddish-improve-2022-23-season/4/ (http://dailyknicks.com/2022/08/15/3-area-knicks-cam-reddish-improve-2022-23-season/4/)

Pretty basic read on Kam. Interesting mention of the Early Group. Maybe something worth keeping and building rather than breaking up for another shiny object.
Title: Cam Reddish
Post by: chipstern on August 15, 2022, 04:09:44 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 15, 2022, 03:34:57 PM
http://dailyknicks.com/2022/08/15/3-area-knicks-cam-reddish-improve-2022-23-season/4/ (http://dailyknicks.com/2022/08/15/3-area-knicks-cam-reddish-improve-2022-23-season/4/)

Pretty basic read on Kam. Interesting mention of the Early Group. Maybe something worth keeping and building rather than breaking up for another shiny object.

So far
So GOOD

Hasn't been a throw-in for any silly transactions. 

Will have an opportunity to compete and make a case for himself with Thibs from Day One. 

Got to figure, given that this is a earn your next contract year, the trade of Burks, and the presence of R.J. that he will be motivated. 

Stay Healthy

Get Wealthy

Win Over Your Coach, Your Teammates And The FanBase. 

Even Lube Boy. 
Title: August 15
Post by: chipstern on August 15, 2022, 04:15:16 PM
No News Is Good News

However, for The DONOVAN OBSESSED Amongst Us, what would a summer's day be without a ludicrous overthetop trade scenario, and for wackamole, one can always depend on the NBA Anal Prosthesis Network

NBA Analysis Network

Utah Jazz Receive: G/F Evan Fournier, F Cam Reddish, F Obi Toppin, 2023 First-Round Pick (NYK), 2023 First-Round Pick (DAL via NYK), 2025 First-Round Pick (MIL via NYK), 2027 First-Round Pick (NYK), 2029 First-Round Pick (NYK)

New York Knicks Receive: G Donovan Mitchell

(https://c.tenor.com/Uee98PumZ7oAAAAC/andy-samberg-this-is-killing-me.gif)

I mean, FUCK YOU, Danny. 

(https://images2.minutemediacdn.com/image/fetch/w_736,h_485,c_fill,g_auto,f_auto/https%3A%2F%2Fdailyknicks.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fgetty-images%2F2020%2F04%2F1211690098-850x560.jpeg)
Title: Re: August 15
Post by: Kam on August 15, 2022, 05:13:38 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 15, 2022, 04:15:16 PM

NBA Analysis Network

Utah Jazz Receive: G/F Evan Fournier, F Cam Reddish, F Obi Toppin, 2023 First-Round Pick (NYK), 2023 First-Round Pick (DAL via NYK), 2025 First-Round Pick (MIL via NYK), 2027 First-Round Pick (NYK), 2029 First-Round Pick (NYK)

New York Knicks Receive: G Donovan Mitchell


Let's look at who isn't in the deal.

Grimes, IQ, Rose, McBride, Sims, 2024 first (NY), Future first (Washington), Future first (Detroit)

Add Jalen Brunson, Donovan Mitchell, RJ Barett, Mitchell Robinson, Julius Randle

If i'm LEON ROSE, i'm liking the shape of this team. And still have three firsts.
Title: Re: August 15
Post by: chipstern on August 15, 2022, 05:27:31 PM
Quote from: Kam on August 15, 2022, 05:13:38 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 15, 2022, 04:15:16 PM

NBA Analysis Network

Utah Jazz Receive: G/F Evan Fournier, F Cam Reddish, F Obi Toppin, 2023 First-Round Pick (NYK), 2023 First-Round Pick (DAL via NYK), 2025 First-Round Pick (MIL via NYK), 2027 First-Round Pick (NYK), 2029 First-Round Pick (NYK)

New York Knicks Receive: G Donovan Mitchell


Let's look at who isn't in the deal.

Grimes, IQ, Rose, McBride, Sims, 2024 first (NY), Future first (Washington), Future first (Detroit)

Add Jalen Brunson, Donovan Mitchell, RJ Barett, Mitchell Robinson, Julius Randle

If i'm LEON ROSE, i'm liking the shape of this team. And still have three firsts.

If I'M LEON ROSE, I see us sundering ALL OF OUR FRONT COURT DEPTH, Not To Mention FIVE #1 Picks. 

No Sale
Title: Re: August 15
Post by: elephant on August 15, 2022, 05:28:29 PM
Quote from: Kam on August 15, 2022, 05:13:38 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 15, 2022, 04:15:16 PM

NBA Analysis Network

Utah Jazz Receive: G/F Evan Fournier, F Cam Reddish, F Obi Toppin, 2023 First-Round Pick (NYK), 2023 First-Round Pick (DAL via NYK), 2025 First-Round Pick (MIL via NYK), 2027 First-Round Pick (NYK), 2029 First-Round Pick (NYK)

New York Knicks Receive: G Donovan Mitchell


Let's look at who isn't in the deal.

Grimes, IQ, Rose, McBride, Sims, 2024 first (NY), Future first (Washington), Future first (Detroit)

Add Jalen Brunson, Donovan Mitchell, RJ Barett, Mitchell Robinson, Julius Randle

If i'm LEON ROSE, i'm liking the shape of this team. And still have three firsts.

And don't sleep on Hartenstein!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 15, 2022, 05:29:40 PM
Pair it down to three picks, one of them ours and top 5 protected, then I still would not like or want to do it, but would have to admit it was a decent deal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 15, 2022, 05:37:17 PM
 Latest deal posted by Chip



keeping Grimes AND IQ  is not a bad thing at all.  Backup plans in case Rose doesnt make it full season. 

Reddish is a throwaway for me - not saying he wont play well elsewhere.

Now....

OBI's future is what we are surrendering.  The picks do not bother me, though I would try to keep one of the 2 for next year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on August 15, 2022, 05:55:29 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on August 15, 2022, 05:37:17 PM
Latest deal posted by Chip



keeping Grimes AND IQ  is not a bad thing at all.  Backup plans in case Rose doesnt make it full season. 

Reddish is a throwaway for me - not saying he wont play well elsewhere.

Now....

OBI's future is what we are surrendering.  The picks do not bother me, though I would try to keep one of the 2 for next year.

Yeah, I agree with this. I don't have the investment in Reddish...and neither yet do the Knicks. And losing Fournier can expedite Grime's development.

Obi is where it hurts. But whenever you trade for a star, you've got to give up something that hurts.

FWIW, I think Utah and their fans would love Obi. Make the losing sting a little less. And he might get a lot more playing time out there.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 15, 2022, 08:33:32 PM
I hope Ainge gets an offer he likes better from elsewhere than what we are willing to give up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 15, 2022, 09:16:42 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 15, 2022, 08:33:32 PM
I hope Ainge gets an offer he likes better from elsewhere than what we are willing to give up.

I'm not sold on the idea that they even trade Mitchell. 

CLEARLY, Ainge is willing to sell him for a King's Ransom, and Gobert is the template. 

But Mitchell is what, 26, and signed for three more years?

Latest poop has the Jazz trying to pull off a sign and trade with the Cavs for Sexton, to team him WITH Mitchell, which makes more sense. 

Don't think they could palm off Conley on the Cavs, which is in the range Sexton wants to be paid, at 22 million.  Unless of course Ainge is willing to pony up multiple #1 picks, and see how he likes it to be on the receiving end.  An insane contract they gave Conley on the tail end of a fine, and overpaid career. 

Likewise, Bogdonavich on and ending at $19.5 and some draft capital could probably get it done. 

Mitchell, Conley, Sexton, Clarkson, Alexander-Walker Beverley would be a pretty stacked set of failitators and wings. 

Anyway, just spitballing, because Ainge's expectations of a Knicks deal, and fans projections, are delusional. 

Sometimes the best move is NO MOVE AT ALL. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 15, 2022, 09:30:33 PM
Cavs would take Clarkson back.

Good thought, this deal.  Sexton has another gear to get to.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 15, 2022, 09:31:45 PM
What would Cavs give to end up with Mitchell/Garland?
Title: Cam
Post by: chipstern on August 15, 2022, 09:34:43 PM
Just some workout tapes, and the level of competition is nothing to get keyed up about, but Cam is looking healthy and focused.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmHMCpcMv48 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmHMCpcMv48)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 16, 2022, 09:18:59 AM
Just a thought for a slow time -

if so high on Reddish and with deals for the "we are not sure how much $$ he is worth" Barrett available, why wouldnt we have just given Cam the THREE spot and dealt RJ ahead of the contract mess?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 16, 2022, 10:59:19 AM
Knicks slapped in face - will open the season on Day Two -and on the road (in Memphis 10/19)

Beating Ja would be a great way to set the season ablaze.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 16, 2022, 12:46:51 PM
RJ is a shooting guard. Cam is a small forward. Both are talented and capable players. There is no mess.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on August 16, 2022, 12:51:50 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on August 16, 2022, 10:59:19 AM
Knicks slapped in face - will open the season on Day Two -and on the road (in Memphis 10/19)

Beating Ja would be a great way to set the season ablaze.

Remember well the 2006 season opener in Memphis. Helluva game, multi-overtime thriller, though did not lead to follow through for the season.
Isiah's debut as coach, lol. Also Kyle Lowry's NBA debut - looked great, still can't believe we passed on both him and Rondo for Balkman, ouch!

https://www.espn.com/nba/recap/_/gameId/261101029 (https://www.espn.com/nba/recap/_/gameId/261101029)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 16, 2022, 01:00:57 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 16, 2022, 12:46:51 PM
RJ is a shooting guard. Cam is a small forward. Both are talented and capable players. There is no mess.

Cam is a BIG Wing, capable of coverage at the 2-3-1.  He has many areas for potential improvement, such as rebounding, better 3 point consistency, and getting to the FT Line more often considering he is an excellent FT SHOOTER.  But he is a GOOD DEFENDER, and that is his point of entry into rotation minutes.

RJ, as well as Fournier AND Grimes, are also BIG WINGS, checking in at 6'6", 6'7" and 6'5" respectively. 

Competition between Reddish, Barrett, Fournier and Grimes for minutes next to Brunson will be a big part of training camp.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 16, 2022, 01:04:09 PM
How then does competition between Rose, Quickley and McBride play out for the 16-20 potential minutes behind or abreast of Brunson?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 16, 2022, 01:46:39 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 16, 2022, 12:46:51 PM
RJ is a shooting guard.

 

No, not really.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 16, 2022, 02:02:12 PM
Guard/small forward minutes

Brunson 30
Barrett 34
Rose  22
Quickley  12-14
Fournier 20-26 (start to season, shooting stroke-dependent)
Grimes 20-24
Reddish 0
McBride  0

last 2 get some time when any of the other 6 are out a game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 16, 2022, 02:31:23 PM
Kid is tanking for someone this year with those minutes.

Brunson 30
Barrett 32
Grimes 26
Quickley 20
Reddish 24
Fournier or Rose 12

Is a much better arrangement.
Title: Mind reading
Post by: carlos123 on August 16, 2022, 02:39:27 PM
Quote from: Fac on August 16, 2022, 02:31:23 PM
Chamaco is tanking for someone this year with those minutes.

Brunson 30
Barrett 32
Grimes 26
Quickley 20
Reddish 24
Fournier or Rose 12

Is a much better arrangement.

I am afraid Chamaco is reading Thibs mind.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 16, 2022, 02:49:35 PM
http://mobile.twitter.com/shaqbrewster/status/1559534063194603521 (http://mobile.twitter.com/shaqbrewster/status/1559534063194603521)

Lets go.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on August 16, 2022, 02:51:17 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 16, 2022, 02:31:23 PM
Kid is tanking for someone this year with those minutes.

Brunson 30
Barrett 32
Grimes 26
Quickley 20
Reddish 24
Fournier or Rose 12

Is a much better arrangement.

This is absolutely unrealistic.

What have you seen with Thibs and a healthy Rose, or Fournier for that matter, that leads you to think they would play so little?

It may be something that you think will work....but we'll never see that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 16, 2022, 05:29:41 PM
Rose does not mind taking a backseat. The younger guys can out compete he and Fournier.

I expect Fournier to be less happy than Rose but still be mature about it.
Title: ReEngaged And It's Still Bullshit
Post by: chipstern on August 16, 2022, 06:27:00 PM
Poop Alert

Jazz want 7 of Knicks 8 #1 picks.
 
👀👀👀

😝
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 16, 2022, 07:36:35 PM
Quote from: elephant on August 16, 2022, 02:51:17 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 16, 2022, 02:31:23 PM
Kid is tanking for someone this year with those minutes.

Brunson 30
Barrett 32
Grimes 26
Quickley 20
Reddish 24
Fournier or Rose 12

Is a much better arrangement.

This is absolutely unrealistic.

What have you seen with Thibs and a healthy Rose, or Fournier for that matter, that leads you to think they would play so little?

It may be something that you think will work....but we'll never see that.

Fac forgets we are trying to win.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 16, 2022, 07:38:12 PM
Fournier will shoot himself out of this lineup - OR NOT.

True pro.

A healthy Derek gets to the rack and to the line.  AND has leadership qualities.
Title: Re: ReEngaged And It's Still Bullshit
Post by: facilitatorn on August 16, 2022, 10:59:08 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 16, 2022, 06:27:00 PM
Poop Alert

Jazz want 7 of Knicks 8 #1 picks.
 
👀👀👀

😝

Danny can take a refreshing swim in the Great Salt Lake.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 17, 2022, 12:08:19 PM
Should Joe Tsai fire Steve Nash and save his franchise?

The other negotiation that is now developing is between Durant and the Nets. That separate negotiation about what it would like for him to come back. Thats what a big part of the discussion he had with owner Joe Tsai in London about 10, 11 days ago was. Joe Tsai and the Nets believe they have a really good team. They dont believe they have a good trade for Kevin Durant. They want him to consider coming back. But Durant has very clearly made it known he doesnt want to play for the Nets under the current situation with the current coach and current GM
Title: Nyets
Post by: carlos123 on August 17, 2022, 10:25:59 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on August 17, 2022, 12:08:19 PM
Should Joe Tsai fire Steve Nash and save his franchise?

That aint saving no franchise. It is giving it to someone who may change his mind again and demand another coach/GM firing. How about demanding that Tsai sells him the effin franchise for $1?

PS. Only responding to Chamaco because there is no other thread going. Peace.
Title: Another Day....And Still
Post by: chipstern on August 18, 2022, 03:57:15 PM
No obscene trades.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 18, 2022, 04:55:21 PM
Some possibility for a happy resolution,

http://mobile.twitter.com/NBA_NewYork/status/1560039549417529346 (http://mobile.twitter.com/NBA_NewYork/status/1560039549417529346)
Title: Re: Another Day....And Still
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 18, 2022, 05:18:00 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 18, 2022, 03:57:15 PM
No obscene trades.

You can take a few weeks off from looking.
Title: Free Agents Still To Be Had
Post by: chipstern on August 18, 2022, 11:09:10 PM
Carmelo Anthony
LaMarcus Aldridge
Dwight Howard
DeMarcus Cousins
Montrezl Harrell
Hassan Whiteside
Trevor Ariza
Blake Griffin
Paul Millsap
Rodney Hood
Andre Iguodala
Jeremy Lamb
Ben McLemore
DJ Augustin
Dennis Schroder
Rajon Rondo

Melo would be a nice pickup...

FOR THE NYETS 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 18, 2022, 11:32:39 PM
I would take Whiteside but then I would have to listen all season to you mofos whine about Sims not gettin time
Title: The Process
Post by: carlos123 on August 18, 2022, 11:54:46 PM
Quote from: chamAAcocartero8 on August 18, 2022, 11:32:39 PM
I would take Whiteside but then I would have to listen all season to you mofos whine about Sims not gettin time

Hey, C. Cartero, what is your decision making process to decide, before each of your numerous posts, whether to do it as Chamaco or ChamAAco?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 19, 2022, 12:38:16 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 18, 2022, 11:32:39 PM
I would take Whiteside but then I would have to listen all season to you mofos whine about Sims not gettin time

You are a fool with a particularly ugly strain of foolishness.
Title: Re: Free Agents Still To Be Had
Post by: elephant on August 19, 2022, 01:42:27 AM
Quote from: chipstern on August 18, 2022, 11:09:10 PM
Carmelo Anthony
LaMarcus Aldridge
Dwight Howard
DeMarcus Cousins
Montrezl Harrell
Hassan Whiteside
Trevor Ariza
Blake Griffin
Paul Millsap
Rodney Hood
Andre Iguodala
Jeremy Lamb
Ben McLemore
DJ Augustin
Dennis Schroder
Rajon Rondo

Melo would be a nice pickup...

FOR THE NYETS

Why you got to do this?

For God's sake, keep Melo away from the abomination called the NY Nets.
Title: Re: Free Agents Still To Be Had
Post by: Kam on August 19, 2022, 11:05:30 AM
Quote from: chipstern on August 18, 2022, 11:09:10 PM
Carmelo Anthony
LaMarcus Aldridge
Dwight Howard
DeMarcus Cousins
Montrezl Harrell
Hassan Whiteside
Trevor Ariza
Blake Griffin
Paul Millsap
Rodney Hood
Andre Iguodala
Jeremy Lamb
Ben McLemore
DJ Augustin
Dennis Schroder
Rajon Rondo

Melo would be a nice pickup...

FOR THE NYETS

This list of players reads like pre-NBA three point craze super team. lol.   All these guys are dinosaurs in the modern game.  They'd retire but the money's too good.  Melo might be the least out of fashion.
Title: The Significance Of The Number 24
Post by: chipstern on August 19, 2022, 02:00:54 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 18, 2022, 11:32:39 PM
I would take Whiteside but then I would have to listen all season to you mofos whine about Sims not gettin time

Leon & Thibs didn't reup Robinson [24] and Sims [24 in October] PLUS enlist Hartenstein [24] to sign the 33-year old Whiteside, very much on the downward projectory these past two years, genius.   

24
24
24

Notice a trend? 

I'm sure the Knicks are also following your learned advice on dumping the 24 year old Obi in some self-immolating transaction in favor of the  38 year old Anthony. 

A win now strategy, right? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 19, 2022, 02:03:29 PM
I doubt it. Kid tends to think with his vulva which impedes his math skills.
Title: In Defense Of The Vulva
Post by: chipstern on August 19, 2022, 02:18:18 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 19, 2022, 02:03:29 PM
I doubt it. Kid tends to think with his vulva which impedes his math skills.

Sir, I would urge you to modify you metaphor. 

Those amongst us who possess pudendum are nature's nobility. 

I do believe upon due reflection, the Kiid Metaphor you seek is south of the navel, that part of the taint known as the butt plug. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9pESjtw6GA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9pESjtw6GA)

JONATHAN PIE Explains
(https://www.northernsun.com/images/image16x16/576x576/3759.png)

Title: RIVALRY
Post by: chipstern on August 19, 2022, 02:20:41 PM
Quote from: elephant on August 19, 2022, 01:42:27 AM
Quote from: chipstern on August 18, 2022, 11:09:10 PM
Carmelo Anthony
LaMarcus Aldridge
Dwight Howard
DeMarcus Cousins
Montrezl Harrell
Hassan Whiteside
Trevor Ariza
Blake Griffin
Paul Millsap
Rodney Hood
Andre Iguodala
Jeremy Lamb
Ben McLemore
DJ Augustin
Dennis Schroder
Rajon Rondo

Melo would be a nice pickup...

FOR THE NYETS

Why you got to do this?

For God's sake, keep Melo away from the abomination called the NY Nets.

BROOKLYN

And Melo spent part of his childhood in the Borough Of Churches. 


A competitive Brooklyn NYETS Team is good for the city as a whole, and our beloved Knucks in particular. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 19, 2022, 03:35:36 PM
I am sure the Knicks are also following your learned advice on dumping the 24 year old Obi in some self-immolating transaction in favor of the  38 year old Anthony.


I wouldnt call it a dump.
Title: Re: In Defense Of The Vulva
Post by: facilitatorn on August 19, 2022, 04:03:42 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 19, 2022, 02:18:18 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 19, 2022, 02:03:29 PM
I doubt it. Kid tends to think with his vulva which impedes his math skills.

Sir, I would urge you to modify you metaphor. 

Those amongst us who possess pudendum are nature's nobility. 

I do believe upon due reflection, the Kiid Metaphor you seek is south of the navel, that part of the taint known as the butt plug. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9pESjtw6GA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9pESjtw6GA)

JONATHAN PIE Explains
(https://www.northernsun.com/images/image16x16/576x576/3759.png)

I would never go so far as to credit Kid with a whole vagina. Taint is probably more accurate. I am not being metaphorical. It is a big strange world that coughs up aberrations like Kiid in all their wondrously off putting forms. 
Title: Poetry
Post by: carlos123 on August 20, 2022, 01:01:43 AM
Hey Fac, your comment about Chamaco, or ChamAAco, is sort of poetic in its own way.

I suppose that makes Chamaco-ChamAAco an inspiring muse, thinking taint and all. . .
Title: Any MoFos Be Whining?
Post by: chipstern on August 20, 2022, 05:00:03 PM
(https://c.tenor.com/5ZXLFjrDIkQAAAAM/life-hard.gif)

(https://c.tenor.com/tSHf3xdeCeIAAAAM/snl-hader.gif)

They Want HOW MANY Draft Picks?

(https://c.tenor.com/_cF8MQdCvKIAAAAM/abbott-and-costello-yes.gif)

Title: Rokas Jokubaitis
Post by: chipstern on August 20, 2022, 05:00:25 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_FCASG_2VE&t=48s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_FCASG_2VE&t=48s)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 20, 2022, 05:22:02 PM
Rex Walters
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 20, 2022, 05:33:13 PM
I like that guy - thanks for the link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKKCLJ8d3t4

Title: A Month & Change Till Training Camp
Post by: chipstern on August 22, 2022, 11:41:40 AM
(https://www.gifcen.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/crickets-gif-10.gif)

Poop?

Knicks offering [ALLEGEDLY] Fournier & Toppin, P-L-U-S, two unprotected, five overall.

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/DistinctWateryArmadillo-size_restricted.gif)

Not good enough for Ainge, [APPARENTLY].

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/6e/9e/28/6e9e289db3ebb973746718312c89269e.gif)

Oh well...

(https://www.icegif.com/wp-content/uploads/crickets-icegif.gif)

Onwards

(https://media4.giphy.com/media/11cPfPrduonvEc/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 22, 2022, 01:45:46 PM
Even though I think unloading Fournier is a plus, Toppin and two of our firsts is a lot to give up for a sixth man.

What I do like about this is it puts the bar low enough that it can be matched or exceeded by another team interested in Mitchell.

Go Charlotte. Pony up for your boy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 22, 2022, 02:12:54 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 22, 2022, 01:45:46 PM
Even though I think unloading Fournier is a plus, Toppin and two of our firsts is a lot to give up for a sixth man.

What I do like about this is it puts the bar low enough that it can be matched or exceeded by another team interested in Mitchell.

Go Charlotte. Pony up for your boy.

Two unprotected + Three protected is a lot

Not that I view DM as a sixth man.  He is a lead dawg. 

Thing is, Brunson is a lead dog. 

Let him lead. 
Title: Fuked over
Post by: carlos123 on August 22, 2022, 06:18:21 PM
It looks like we are gonna get fuked by Danny.

And like he's holding on to DM some more, so that he can fuk us some more, like a sixth pick and maybe Sims and Grimes?

OTOH, nice bugs, Chip!
Title: I Got Protection, From Your Infection
Post by: chipstern on August 22, 2022, 07:02:52 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on August 22, 2022, 06:18:21 PM
It looks like we are gonna get fuked by Danny.

And like he's holding on to DM some more, so that he can fuk us some more, like a sixth pick and maybe Sims and Grimes?

OTOH, nice bugs, Chip!

Don't see Aller & Rose flinching. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOv7MUZ3ZRE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOv7MUZ3ZRE)
Title: Re: I Got Protection, From Your Infection
Post by: carlos123 on August 22, 2022, 08:11:53 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 22, 2022, 07:02:52 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on August 22, 2022, 06:18:21 PM
It looks like we are gonna get fuked by Danny.

And like he's holding on to DM some more, so that he can fuk us some more, like a sixth pick and maybe Sims and Grimes?

OTOH, nice bugs, Chip!

Don't see Aller & Rose flinching. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOv7MUZ3ZRE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOv7MUZ3ZRE)

Well, your original deal, allegedly offered by the effin Knicks is awful enough.

Quote
Knicks offering [ALLEGEDLY] Fournier & Toppin, P-L-U-S, two unprotected, five overall.

We are fucked with this, so I hope is fake. But if it is true, then obviously Dear Danny would try to fuck us some more.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 23, 2022, 12:16:09 AM
Since we do actually have a surplus of picks and rumor now has it from Berman that Thibs wants to play Obi, how bout

Harrison Barnes & Terrance Davis for Julius Randle and a conditional first rounder or two?

It puts us out of the Mitchell sweepstakes but also opens up 25 mil next season from having Randle off the books.

Mitch Hartenstein Sims
Toppin Barnes
Barrett Reddish Davis
Grimes Quickley Fournier
Brunson Rose McBride

We would have both a really capable bench and a pretty impressive starting five.

The Kings would have

Sabonis Len
Randle Holmes
Murray Huerter
Monk Mitchell
Fox Delly

They would be a very switchy five-out team.

I like it better than any deal I have heard so far where we trade for Donavan Mitchell.




Title: Nice try, Fac
Post by: carlos123 on August 23, 2022, 01:03:56 AM
But I am afraid that, as Chip Caesar said, alea iacta est.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 23, 2022, 10:03:25 AM
8-18, 2-4, 0-0   18 pts   LOSS
7-19, 1-4, 3-4  18  LOSS
7-13, 1-4, 5-5   20  LOSS


First three non Luka games for Brunson last year
Title: Durant
Post by: chipstern on August 23, 2022, 12:25:26 PM
KD and the Nyets haved reached an accord. 

Now that he is "Off The Market" perhaps we shall see some closure on this entire Donovan Mitchell Dance. 
Title: Re: RIVALRY
Post by: elephant on August 23, 2022, 12:30:16 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 19, 2022, 02:20:41 PM
Quote from: elephant on August 19, 2022, 01:42:27 AM
Quote from: chipstern on August 18, 2022, 11:09:10 PM

Melo would be a nice pickup...

FOR THE NYETS

Why you got to do this?

For God's sake, keep Melo away from the abomination called the NY Nets.

BROOKLYN

And Melo spent part of his childhood in the Borough Of Churches. 

A competitive Brooklyn NYETS Team is good for the city as a whole, and our beloved Knucks in particular.

Brooklyn. Of course, That's how agitated I was with the prospect of Melo going there.
Title: Re: RIVALRY
Post by: elephant on August 23, 2022, 12:31:56 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 19, 2022, 02:20:41 PM

A competitive Brooklyn NYETS Team is good for the city as a whole, and our beloved Knucks in particular.

Where do you come up with this stuff?

A great Knicks team is good for the city as a whole.

Fuck the Nets.
Title: Re: RIVALRY
Post by: chipstern on August 23, 2022, 12:34:31 PM
Quote from: elephant on August 23, 2022, 12:31:56 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 19, 2022, 02:20:41 PM

A competitive Brooklyn NYETS Team is good for the city as a whole, and our beloved Knucks in particular.

Where do you come up with this stuff?

A great Knicks team is good for the city as a whole.

Fuck the Nets.

(https://c.tenor.com/RAvyYx8BBbAAAAAM/heart-shocked.gif)
Title: Re: Durant
Post by: elephant on August 23, 2022, 12:35:41 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 23, 2022, 12:25:26 PM
KD and the Nyets haved reached an accord. 

Now that he is "Off The Market" perhaps we shall see some closure on this entire Donovan Mitchell Dance.

This Durant thing is so tedious. It seemed obvious after the first day that he wasn't going anywhere. Now we'll have endless stories up the ass about how the Nets found each other once again and are proving to the world that....

We'll get months and months of that shit, all to the tune of "Reunited and it feels so good....".

It's gonna be miserable.
Title: Re: Durant
Post by: chipstern on August 23, 2022, 02:59:20 PM
Quote from: elephant on August 23, 2022, 12:35:41 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 23, 2022, 12:25:26 PM
KD and the Nyets haved reached an accord. 

Now that he is "Off The Market" perhaps we shall see some closure on this entire Donovan Mitchell Dance.

This Durant thing is so tedious. It seemed obvious after the first day that he wasn't going anywhere. Now we'll have endless stories up the ass about how the Nets found each other once again and are proving to the world that....

We'll get months and months of that shit, all to the tune of "Reunited and it feels so good....".

It's gonna be miserable.

ACTUALLY...

What you might GET...

IS....

Donovan Mitchell

Free Agency & Trades have been on ice waiting for the Durant malarkey play out.

Now teams can explore their Plan B Trade Scenarios with Durant off the market.

I MOST DEFINITELY DO NOT WANT A PROFLIGATE MITCHELL DEAL AND YET You ARE MISERABLE.

"Your honor, I rest my case."
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 23, 2022, 03:14:30 PM
As good as Durant is, his return does not automatically catapult the Nets ahead of the Celtics on paper or in the eyes of those in Las Vegas.

According to betonline.ag, the Celtics, at 5:1, still have the best odds of winning an NBA title this season. The news of Durant's return, not surprisingly, has improved the view of the Nets who are now 15:2 odds which trails Boston, Milwaukee (6:1); and the defending NBA champion Golden State Warriors (7:1)

Heh

Only a fool bets on Boston
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 23, 2022, 07:40:53 PM
http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2022/8/23/23312973/the-jazz-reportedly-have-several-other-suitors-for-donovan-mitchell-including-a-mystery-team (http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2022/8/23/23312973/the-jazz-reportedly-have-several-other-suitors-for-donovan-mitchell-including-a-mystery-team)

Sweet.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 24, 2022, 09:36:49 AM
Deal includes third player


The deal Shams reported is Evan Fournier, Obi Toppin, salary filler*, five firsts, including two unprotected.
*Have to understand salary filler is the phrase being used to hide which of RJ Barrett, Cam Reddish, Quentin Grimes, or Immanuel Quickley would be included
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 24, 2022, 09:39:58 AM
So they would take Barrett, just not as the key piece of the deal.  His salary is low enough (10.9) now where he fits as filler.

Not much of a chance this happens of course. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 24, 2022, 09:43:09 AM
But then there is this....

Last month, SNY reported that people in touch with the Knicks early in the free agency period were under the impression that the club had no interest in trading the former No. 3 pick. That stance has shifted. Some New York decision-makers are open to including Barrett in a trade for Mitchell, sources say. -via SportsNet New York


so as I suspected early on, Barrett, since we would have to pay a king's ransom to re-sign him, is not off limits.

Barrett wont be dealt unless we are becoming stronger in the deal, which is why seeing him as "filler" is silly.  Add Mitchell, lose Barrett and Toppin and all that future trade capital making little sense.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 24, 2022, 12:19:27 PM
All this leading to the following -  BARRETT IS NOT  GOING IN THE MITCHELL DEAL BUT DO NOT RULE OUT HIS BEING DEALT AT SOME POINT.
Title: An So On And So Forth
Post by: chipstern on August 24, 2022, 03:50:34 PM
* Still No DM News...Thank God. 

* Chet Holmgren has possibly torn ligaments in his foot from participation in some Jamal Crawford ProAm Event where the event was shut down because of unsafe court conditions.  UnFUCKINGbelievable.  Hope the kid is okay.  Foot issues for someone that size, whose game is predicated not just on size and skills but mobility?  Yao Ming.  Noah. 

* ELEPHANT ALERT:  Nets apparently neither INTERESTED in Carmelo Anthony nor Dwight Howard.  However Markieff Morris apparently on their radar. He would make a good fit, giving them coverage at SF-PF, and some toughness.   

Bigs: Nic Claxton, Day'Ron Sharpe
Forwards: Kevin Durant, Royce O'Neal: Joe Harris, T.J. Warren
Wings: Ben Simmons, Cam Thomas, Seth Curry, David Duke
Points: Kyrie Irving, Patty Mills

Obviously a healthy Simmons could give the Nyets coverage at the point, as well as off the ball at the 2-3-4.  Likewise, Irving could be effective off the ball.  If healthy, if Simmons not a mirage, of Curry and Harris and Mills are hitting the long ball, the Nyets could be a formidable presence in the East and Nyets-Knicks games a hot rivalry. 

* The spectre of Sarah Palin is threatning Marjore Taylor-Green's status as the stupidest woman in Congress. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 24, 2022, 04:39:14 PM
Their best group looks like Simmons Warren Durant Thomas Irving.

I am perfectly good with adding Mitchell at twenty eight or twenty nine as a leaving expiring or sign and trade rather than taking a deal that makes us no better now while also capping our growth in the interim. 

And we get to watch the kids play which will be fun.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 24, 2022, 05:40:07 PM
If you were only accurate you would be a great read Fac.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 24, 2022, 05:46:29 PM
I like Curry or a healthy Harris starting.   Starting C may not be on roster yet.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 24, 2022, 07:33:16 PM
You have Curry and or Harris ahead of Thomas?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 24, 2022, 07:38:32 PM
Yes

So does Nash
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 24, 2022, 08:18:50 PM
Leaning on Seth and Kyrie is as dumb as going with DM and Brunson. It is not going to happen much.

If Harris is healthy and pumped full of German go juice, I could see the argument. That stuff makes you three years younger and takes hair off your chest.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 24, 2022, 09:35:04 PM
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/10046301-5-nba-teams-built-to-shock-in-2022-23 (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/10046301-5-nba-teams-built-to-shock-in-2022-23)
Title: Guess What? A Transaction
Post by: chipstern on August 25, 2022, 02:22:32 AM
Patrick Beverley is heading to the Lakers.

For Horton Hears A Who And Stanley Johnson.

Utah now has eight backcourt players by my dead reckoning. 

Mitchell, Conley, Horton-Tucker, Alexander-Walker, Clarkson, Bolmaro, Beasley, Butler

Two centers

Azubuike and Kessler

Bogdonavich and Fontecchio at SF

Vanderbilt and Rudy Gay at PF

Clarkson [30], Gay [36] and Conley [34] are guaranteed/player options for 2022-23 and 2023-24, at $13-14 million, $6.1-6.4 million and $22-24 million respectively. 

Bogdonavich [33] and his 19 million come off the books in the summer of 2023.

Beasley [26] at 15 million, but a team option for his 16.5 next summer. 

Horton-Tucker 10 million for 2022-23, player option for 11 million 2023-24. 

Ainge inherited a shit show. 

Still, if the Knicks actually offered him two unprotected #1 picks, plus three protected #1 picks, plus a big wing in Fournier [18 million guaranteed for 2022-23 and 2023-24] and a PF on a rookie scale contract in Toppin AND DANNY TURNED IT DOWN, well, he is fucking delusional. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 25, 2022, 03:32:25 AM
I agree with all that stuff in green. Furthermore I hope we have since taken the offer off the table.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 25, 2022, 10:02:45 AM
The times (and stories) keep a changin

https://hoopshype.com/2022/08/23/jazz-strongly-interested-in-rj-barrett/

Utah wants Barrett - OK

Grimes would welcome being in the deal if Mitchell is coming, since he sees DM as a roadblock to PT.  OK on that too.

Meanwhile Beverley lands in LA and Ainge gets my pal THT as a building block/trade piece.  Could Horton-Tucker be rerouted to NY as part of the Mitchell deal?  29 mil plus 10 so we would need to send 39ish  -  Randle and Fournier equal about 41.

Brunson/Rose/Quickley
Mitchell/Grimes
Barrett/Reddish/THT
Toppin/add (Melo?)/Hartenstein
Robinson/Hartenstein/Sims

- Reddish and Quickley still available if we wanted to deal them.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 25, 2022, 10:10:58 AM
Still, if the Knicks actually offered him two unprotected #1 picks, plus three protected #1 picks, plus a big wing in Fournier [18 million guaranteed for 2022-23 and 2023-24] and a PF on a rookie scale contract in Toppin AND DANNY TURNED IT DOWN, well, he is fucking delusiona

Roger that -except reportedly there ARE now other suitors.  Could be Danny just doing his due diligence.  He can easily put himself in Miami's shoes (and Knicks as well) and ask himself how he would play it if HE was seeking the star 

We shall see how it plays out.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 25, 2022, 10:13:06 AM
Holmgren out for the season.  Damn.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 25, 2022, 10:47:23 AM
Donovan Mitchell has now officially requested a trade.

Has three preferred landing spots.

New York - check
Miami - check
and.........................................










BROOKLYN.



The plot thickens.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 25, 2022, 10:49:16 AM
Would NEW YORK do a three way deal that would land Mitchell in Brooklyn?

(You have to figure Nets do not have the draft capital)

What might that look like?  Who do we want from Nets?  And do we even entertain such a deal if it will strengthen a division opponent while strengthening us as well?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 25, 2022, 10:51:29 AM
Mitchell for Simmons?


per Kamla on NBA Radio (just musing).

Would  Nets give up Simmons defense, while being done with his lack of dependability?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on August 25, 2022, 12:19:26 PM
I think the Nets would love to shove Simmons out the door. His teammates as well, after that team chat he ran out of in the playoffs when asked "if he was playing tonight."

As for the Knicks, here is the truthiest truth:

Tweet - Alex B. -@KnicksCentral
Some Knicks fans want Donovan Mitchell

Some are done with the saga and dont care anymore

Some never wanted him to begin with

Some now want Shai

Nobody legitimate wants to trade RJ

Bottom line, just trade Julius Randle and 99% of the fans will be happy going into next season
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 25, 2022, 02:17:02 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on August 25, 2022, 12:19:26 PM
I think the Nets would love to shove Simmons out the door. His teammates as well, after that team chat he ran out of in the playoffs when asked "if he was playing tonight."

As for the Knicks, here is the truthiest truth:

Tweet - Alex B. -@KnicksCentral
Some Knicks fans want Donovan Mitchell

Some are done with the saga and dont care anymore

Some never wanted him to begin with

Some now want Shai

Nobody legitimate wants to trade RJ

Bottom line, just trade Julius Randle and 99% of the fans will be happy going into next season

What a load of crap. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on August 25, 2022, 06:36:32 PM
I knew we would find the 1%!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 25, 2022, 07:20:02 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on August 25, 2022, 06:36:32 PM
I knew we would find the 1%!

Scapegoating

As is your wont
Title: Walk Away
Post by: chipstern on August 25, 2022, 09:21:52 PM
Hahn pissing on "the deal"
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: LarryBnDC on August 25, 2022, 10:57:20 PM
Instead of trading Julius Randle coach him on how and when to give up the fucking ball. Add a contract rider with bonus incentives for assists...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 25, 2022, 11:30:32 PM
Quote from: LarryBnDC on August 25, 2022, 10:57:20 PM
Instead of trading Julius Randle coach him on how and when to give up the fucking ball. Add a contract rider with bonus incentives for assists...

Now there's a notion.

Coaching.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 26, 2022, 04:25:01 AM
I will be happy if Brunson and Rose as on floor team leaders can get Julius to adjust his game to focus on quick decisions and trust and refining his strengths and always presenting him with a better option than spinning into the lane. I think that will actually have more to do with it than coaching. IQ can probably pick up on it, but the guys with the juice, seniority, and responsibility are Brunson and Rose.

Getting Randle to play D in a way that he and Obi can coexist is more on the coaching staff and any improvements by Obi. That seems harder to imagine coming together.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 26, 2022, 04:38:26 AM
Because I have time, one more trade

If Jay Huff will agree, I would accept Jay Huff, Westbrook, and the 2027 first round pick the Lakers can give us top five protected and top three protected in 28 if 27 does not convey for Julius and Evan.

I would then buyout Westbrook.

We would have

Mitch Hartenstein Sims
Toppin Huff
Barrett Reddish
Grimes Quickley
Brunson Rose McBride

It would leave three spots open to pickup guys we can take flyers on and opens up huge cap space next summer while increasing our stock of picks.

The lakers would Have

AD, Randle, LBJ, Fournier, and Beverley to start with Nun, Bryant, and Christie as the core of their bench.

I think that is probably the least the Lakers would have to give up and the most they could get back if they want to move off Russ.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 26, 2022, 06:18:54 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 26, 2022, 04:38:26 AM
Because I have time, one more trade

If Jay Huff will agree, I would accept Jay Huff, Westbrook, and the 2027 first round pick the Lakers can give us top five protected and top three protected in 28 if 27 does not convey for Julius and Evan.

I would then buyout Westbrook.

We would have

Mitch Hartenstein Sims
Toppin Huff
Barrett Reddish
Grimes Quickley
Brunson Rose McBride

It would leave three spots open to pickup guys we can take flyers on and opens up huge cap space next summer while increasing our stock of picks.

The lakers would Have

AD, Randle, LBJ, Fournier, and Beverley to start with Nun, Bryant, and Christie as the core of their bench.

I think that is probably the least the Lakers would have to give up and the most they could get back if they want to move off Russ.

This would be a dream date for the Lakers, an unprecendeted return for a player they do not want. 

A salary dump?  This is the best we can do for two starters.

Jay FUCKING Huff? 

Jay MOTHERFUCKING Huff?

We share a mutual contempt for Danny Ainge's shakedowns, and then you concoct this plan to return the Lakers to the Western Conference Finals. 

Frankly dear fellow, you confound me. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 26, 2022, 09:24:52 AM
LA has Beverley to run its show

Westbrook about to leave for two rotation guys.  Imagine that

Now what they could use is one more handler.  Maybe a guy who can hot a three run the floor and get his own shot.




QUICKLEY for a usable front court guy and a protected pick.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 26, 2022, 10:32:41 AM
Quote from: LarryBnDC on August 25, 2022, 10:57:20 PM
Instead of trading Julius Randle coach him on how and when to give up the fucking ball. Add a contract rider with bonus incentives for assists...
.welcome back from your slumber

Under Thibs, Randle,  who is a 3.6 assists per guy for his career ,  has put up 6.0 and 5.1 assists the past 2 campaigns..
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: LarryBnDC on August 26, 2022, 02:04:41 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 26, 2022, 10:32:41 AM
Quote from: LarryBnDC on August 25, 2022, 10:57:20 PM
Instead of trading Julius Randle coach him on how and when to give up the fucking ball. Add a contract rider with bonus incentives for assists...
.welcome back from your slumber

Under Thibs, Randle,  who is a 3.6 assists per guy for his career ,  has put up 6.0 and 5.1 assists the past 2 campaigns..

Cool

I think he would be a killer if he did not force the issue and passed out of the double more often.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 26, 2022, 03:40:41 PM
Giving Randle a bonus for assists is just encouraging to handle the ball more.

NO thank you.
Title: AintItAsHAMAN Speaks
Post by: chipstern on August 26, 2022, 03:40:56 PM
I understand the feral passion of some mad dawgs to offload JR, and to reclaim cap space with EF. 

Nor am I opposed to a real deal. 

But the notion of offloading two front line players for a basket of shit, and in the process giving the fucking Lakers a free ride to the playoffs really fries my onions. 

To me, the notion of "Clearing Cap Space" is utterly offensive, as is GIFTING the Lakers two front line players for ZERO RETURN. 

We bring on Westbrook to buy him out?  FUCK THAT.  Russell, like Julius is coming off a year which is most def subpar based on the bar he has himself raised, and 18.5-7.4-7.1 is still pretty respectable, though in Westbrook's case, he is going to be 34 in November, while Julius will be 27.  Russell is still a player who can make a contribution to the right team, and we're going to facilitate that for nothing, Facil?  The most telling stat is to compare last year with RW's Big O year at 28 in 2016-2017, when he averaged a triple double [31.6-10.7-10.4] had his best 3-PT % [.343%], and his best FT% [.845% based on 10.4 attempts per game].  His FT% last season with the Lakers was .667% based on 5.1 attempts per game.  So clearly he is on the downside of his career. 

Now, as per our Julius, and the dismissive negative cheerleading of one chuckling Lester The Insult Comic Dawg, the cratering of Julius's 3-PT shooting from 2020-21 to 2021-22 [from a freaky .411% to a ghastly .308] is most concerning, as in, WILL THE REAL JULIUS RANDLE PLEASE STEP UP.  Obviously, the main difference between 2020-21 and 2021-22 is that in 2020-21, Julius was feeding off of Payton-Rose, while in 2021-22 WE HAD NO FUCKING POINT GUARD.  Also, as per Nate McMillian and the Hawks, they provided the league a template for how to defend Julius, and Thibs's NO PG response, and his insistance on tasking JR with being a Point Forward, did not do Julius any favors--nor did his often petulant responses to negativity, which has left a lingering bad taste with Knicks Fans. 

Still, for all of THAT, JR still basically averaged 20-10-5. 

This feeding frenzy to DUMP Julius is so fucking self-immolating, so very typical of Hissy Fitting Knicks Fans. 

Again, deal Julius? 

Sure, for a real return, of course. 

Deal Julius NOW, coming off of an up and down season?  Dealing Julius at the lowest point of his competitive arc?  Dealing from weakness rather than from strength?  DUH?  Before JR has even had an opportunity to play with JALEN BRUNSON, DERRICK ROSE and IMMANUEL QUICKLEY?  Hello!  Before we have even had an opportunity to see how JR and RJ interact with each other having ceded the rudder to JALEN BRUNSON.  Let's not forget how great a strtetch JR & RJ had when DERRICK ROSE first arrived. 

Seems prudent to re-evaulate EVERYONE as of December 15, let alone February 15.  Having all of those DRAFT PICKS in the quiver will be way more valuable and impactful further down the road...

And CLEARLY, I am not feeling a Donovan Mitchell Transaction.  Converting our #11 pick into 3-4 future protected #1 picks was part and parcel of offloading Walker, Burks and Noel, getting younger, and opening up cap space for BRUNSON & HARTENSTEIN, and to re-up ROBINSON & SIMS. 

I think we need to see how the pieces we have fit and interact before we engage in wheeling and dealing and allow Danny Ainge to run a Masai Ujiri scam on us, based on fan & media pressure. 

Alan Hahn would seem to agree.  Check THIS Out. 

https://fb.watch/f8Qs9Ol0Z7/ (https://fb.watch/f8Qs9Ol0Z7/)
Title: Ahem [Cough]
Post by: chipstern on August 26, 2022, 03:48:32 PM
Quote from: Kam on August 26, 2022, 03:40:41 PM
Giving Randle a bonus for assists is just encouraging to handle the ball more.

NO thank you.

Being a good passer and making quick, decisive decisions--keeping the ball moving--is a point of growth one might expect as a result of recommitting to raise his game, AND PLAYING WITH AN ACTUAL FACTUAL POINT GUARD. 

As is improving his defensive focus to the point where Thibs would not feel constrained to play Julius and Obi together.  JR and OT seem to have been hanging and banging together this summer, which I take to be a positive development. 

But again, judging ANYONE on this roster, before we've had a chance to see how we evolve with JALEN & DERRICK providing ActualFactual leadership, and Thibs adjusting to his new veteran free roster is premature. 

To Repeat: Neither Randle NOR Barrett is going to be ruddering the offense.  WE HAVE TWO GOOD POINT GUARDS, and in Quickley and Grimes, a pair of combo guards who can facilitate.  STAY TUNED.   

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 26, 2022, 05:39:57 PM
EF and JR put the Lakers back in the play in while killing their future cap.

There are no other deals where you are getting assets back for either JR or EF.

EF is one dimensional. JR plays no D and cracks.

I have us getting Huff AND a likely lotto pick a few years out.

There is no one on our roster I would cut minutes from to see a season of Russ instead.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 26, 2022, 06:10:26 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 26, 2022, 05:39:57 PM
EF and JR put the Lakers back in the play in while killing their future cap.

There are no other deals where you are getting assets back for either JR or EF.

EF is one dimensional. JR plays no D and cracks.

I have us getting Huff AND a likely lotto pick a few years out.

There is no one on our roster I would cut minutes from to see a season of Russ instead.

If you say so. 

PS: Huff, a non-entity of Biblical proportions and a projected fourth string center, a 45 million dollar point guard we have no intentions of keeping, and a draft pick which will not convey for FIVE FUCKING YEARS, all in exchange for two starters.  BE STILL MY HEART. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 26, 2022, 08:27:48 PM
Two guys likely to cause problems when their play relative to their competitors at their positions on the team dictates that they sit.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 26, 2022, 08:58:58 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 26, 2022, 08:27:48 PM
Two guys likely to cause problems when their play relative to their competitors at their positions on the team dictates that they sit.

You are projecting a dramatic decrease in minutes for Fournier AND Randle?   

Based on? 

When you have dinner with Thibs, who picks up the check? 
Title: Re: Ahem [Cough]
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 26, 2022, 09:50:37 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 26, 2022, 03:48:32 PM
Quote from: Kam on August 26, 2022, 03:40:41 PM
Giving Randle a bonus for assists is just encouraging to handle the ball more.

NO thank you.

Being a good passer and making quick, decisive decisions--keeping the ball moving--is a point of growth one might expect as a result of recommitting to raise his game, AND PLAYING WITH AN ACTUAL FACTUAL POINT GUARD. 

As is improving his defensive focus to the point where Thibs would not feel constrained to play Julius and Obi together.  JR and OT seem to have been hanging and banging together this summer, which I take to be a positive development. 

But again, judging ANYONE on this roster, before we've had a chance to see how we evolve with JALEN & DERRICK providing ActualFactual leadership, and Thibs adjusting to his new veteran free roster is premature. 

To Repeat: Neither Randle NOR Barrett is going to be ruddering the offense.  WE HAVE TWO GOOD POINT GUARDS, and in Quickley and Grimes, a pair of combo guards who can facilitate.  STAY TUNED.

I for one think you should finally SHUT THE FUCK UP about Knicks point guard play.

Have a good night now.
Title: Likewise, I'm Sure
Post by: chipstern on August 26, 2022, 09:58:19 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 26, 2022, 09:50:37 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 26, 2022, 03:48:32 PM
Quote from: Kam on August 26, 2022, 03:40:41 PM
Giving Randle a bonus for assists is just encouraging to handle the ball more.

NO thank you.

Being a good passer and making quick, decisive decisions--keeping the ball moving--is a point of growth one might expect as a result of recommitting to raise his game, AND PLAYING WITH AN ACTUAL FACTUAL POINT GUARD. 

As is improving his defensive focus to the point where Thibs would not feel constrained to play Julius and Obi together.  JR and OT seem to have been hanging and banging together this summer, which I take to be a positive development. 

But again, judging ANYONE on this roster, before we've had a chance to see how we evolve with JALEN & DERRICK providing ActualFactual leadership, and Thibs adjusting to his new veteran free roster is premature. 

To Repeat: Neither Randle NOR Barrett is going to be ruddering the offense.  WE HAVE TWO GOOD POINT GUARDS, and in Quickley and Grimes, a pair of combo guards who can facilitate.  STAY TUNED.

I for one think you should finally SHUT THE FUCK UP about Knicks point guard play.

Have a good night now.

(https://i.imgur.com/HNtAk8m.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 27, 2022, 01:54:27 AM
Quote from: chipstern on August 26, 2022, 08:58:58 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 26, 2022, 08:27:48 PM
Two guys likely to cause problems when their play relative to their competitors at their positions on the team dictates that they sit.

You are projecting a dramatic decrease in minutes for Fournier AND Randle?   

Based on? 

When you have dinner with Thibs, who picks up the check?

Dolan. Please do not let him know.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 27, 2022, 04:15:24 AM
As to your other two questions, Chip

I think it is more likely than not that, given the two players respective games and the players we have to go around them, it will be easier to build successful units with Obi on the floor than Randle. If this is the case it is likely it is apparent in camp and further that it gets out. That would lead to drama, pressure, fractures, and wedges the team does not need while also moving his current perceived value from diminished to fire sake territory. Unless you think Randle would take a sixth man role and not get head casey about it. I could be wrong about this and Randle could confirm the established pecking order on his way to a blistering start. Thibs could name him captain and he could get back to ballin in private JR of two years ago. My feeling is it is heading the other way.

RJ shot .401 in the best distance shooting season of his short career. Grimes shot .381 as a rookie. Cam was shooting .379 with the Hawks before the trade and shot out of his mind in his only playoff run. That is the perspective I have looking at Evan shooting .389 for us last year. The younger three are better defenders with more effective floor games, more athleticism, and more room to grow.

That is why I think those two well compensated starters could and probably should lose minutes this season. Not because they are chopped liver, but because we have guys who though less experienced may have better games now. It would be a good problem to have should it be the case, but it would still be a problem that would need to be addressed. That is more true for Randle than Fournier based on their respective histories of handling setbacks and frustration. I do not see the outbursts from Randle as all behind him especially if things do not shape up the way he wants internally.

 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 27, 2022, 08:46:07 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 27, 2022, 04:15:24 AM
As to your other two questions, Chip

I think it is more likely than not that, given the two players respective games and the players we have to go around them, it will be easier to build successful units with Obi on the floor than Randle. If this is the case it is likely it is apparent in camp and further that it gets out. That would lead to drama, pressure, fractures, and wedges the team does not need while also moving his current perceived value from diminished to fire sake territory. Unless you think Randle would take a sixth man role and not get head casey about it. I could be wrong about this and Randle could confirm the established pecking order on his way to a blistering start. Thibs could name him captain and he could get back to ballin in private JR of two years ago. My feeling is it is heading the other way.

RJ shot .401 in the best distance shooting season of his short career. Grimes shot .381 as a rookie. Cam was shooting .379 with the Hawks before the trade and shot out of his mind in his only playoff run. That is the perspective I have looking at Evan shooting .389 for us last year. The younger three are better defenders with more effective floor games, more athleticism, and more room to grow.

That is why I think those two well compensated starters could and probably should lose minutes this season. Not because they are chopped liver, but because we have guys who though less experienced may have better games now. It would be a good problem to have should it be the case, but it would still be a problem that would need to be addressed. That is more true for Randle than Fournier based on their respective histories of handling setbacks and frustration. I do not see the outbursts from Randle as all behind him especially if things do not shape up the way he wants internally.

Interesting take.

Remains to be seen if Thibs evolves significantly. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 27, 2022, 02:08:33 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 26, 2022, 08:27:48 PM
Two guys likely to cause problems when their play relative to their competitors at their positions on the team dictates that they sit.

You, sir - quite simply do not know basketball.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on August 27, 2022, 02:15:48 PM
Julius is an alpha guy. He's not going to spend time on the bench. If he's here, you got to play him.

Now if the Knicks are playing well, I could see him playing a little less with the idea of keeping him healthy for playoffs, etc. Whatever. But punishing him with bench time? Come on.

I look forward to Fournier with Brunson. He will be getting better looks than he did last year, and the dude has a beautiful stoke. If Grimes can beat him out of a starting spot. Excellent. But he's going to have to ball.

BTW, RJ's 3-point shooting was around 34% last year, NOT 40%.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 27, 2022, 02:16:44 PM
Heeeeere we goooooo..........

  Tim MacMahon, you said, I believe last week, that you thought that the Jazz would make a Donovan Mitchell trade before the opener. And it sounds to me in talking to people around the league that the Jazz want to try to go even sooner than that. They want to go before training camp

McMahon    It does sound as I talk to folks in the league that the Jazz are trying to apply the gas here. To try to juice the offer, especially juice the offer from the New York Knicks


https://nba.nbcsports.com/2022/08/26/report-jazz-want-to-apply-the-gas-to-get-donovan-mitchell-trade-done/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 27, 2022, 02:23:24 PM
Now if the Knicks are playing well, I could see him playing a little less with the idea of keeping him healthy for playoffs, etc. Whatever. But punishing him with bench time? Come on.


EXACTLY.

And expect some HUGE games from Julius as well, which will largely go  unnoticed here.

If he is producing mid season - and we stink -  and then you (Fac and any minions) want to trade him - lets talk.  But I dont expect that to be the case.
Title: Elephant Dance
Post by: chipstern on August 27, 2022, 03:19:51 PM
Quote from: elephant on August 27, 2022, 02:15:48 PM
Julius is an alpha guy. He's not going to spend time on the bench. If he's here, you got to play him.

Now if the Knicks are playing well, I could see him playing a little less with the idea of keeping him healthy for playoffs, etc. Whatever. But punishing him with bench time? Come on.

I look forward to Fournier with Brunson. He will be getting better looks than he did last year, and the dude has a beautiful stoke. If Grimes can beat him out of a starting spot. Excellent. But he's going to have to ball.

BTW, RJ's 3-point shooting was around 34% last year, NOT 40%.

I believe that RJ was converting at something like 40% after the all-star break/trading deadline, which coincidentally, was also when IQ and Obi got religion.  RJ's start to the regular season was fraught with struggles. 

RJ raised his game in all areas post-break.  What got me excited, well, mildly exicted, was how in the final stanza of the season, RJ began making baskets in the midrange, 15 foot pullups off off the bounce, which would make his transition/NorthSouth game a million times more effective.  If this becomes a consistent reliable part of his overall game, he further raises the bar as a team leader and tone setter. 

My sense of Julius is that, yes, he can be moody, and he acted out his struggles in a way that was not well received, to put it mildly.  Again, NO POINT GAURD, and the league following the Hawks Playoffs Template for how to guard him. 

Julius is a proud man, and I see him being on a mission come training camp.  He needs to maker quicker more decisive decisions, and to prove that his 2020-21 three point shooting was not a one and done anomaly. 

RJ & Julius both possess significant facilitating skills, but tasking them with ruddering our offense in 2021-2022, took away from their offensive strengths. 

At the risk of disturbing the DoucheNozzle Known As KiidFarterCarter as per his CancelCulture Woke Wabbit WeAction To AintItaSHAMAN's referencing our point guard situation, well, my apologies, but having Jalen Brunson/Derrick Rose instead of Kemba Walker/Alec Burks will significantly impact JR & RJ by playing to their strengths.  MORE IMPORTANTLY, besides an appreciable skill set, both Jalen & Derrick bring...LEADERSHIP.  And THIS IS WHERE Julius and RJ will most benefit. 

ALSO, as per finding minutes for OBI, Toppin went into the summer saying how he and Julius had spoken about playing as a C-PF tandem, and they have been working out together.  Obviously, Thibs is going to be gun shy about small ball given what we would sacrifice on defense, but I do not view this as being insurmountable in certain situations. 

As for playing time, to keep Julius from being gassed at the end of games, I think a 30-18 split with Obi is prudent at PF, and that Thibs surely knows from how the season ended, that he needs to find another 7-10 minutes a night for Obi. 

Worth remembering that as a rookie, Obi had a really good dynamic with Rose, who often found him on back cuts along the base line. 

With Brunson & Rose, an uptick in point guard skills will obviously make things easier for those previously tasked with being point forwards, but also with catch and shoot types such as Fournier and Grimes, whose shooting is optimized by cleaner looks and a chance to shoot in rhythm with PGs drawing coverage, much as Julius and RJ drawing coverage can also benefit Evan and Quentin if our PF/SF combo makes quick, decisive reads and decisions.  Not to mention the potential Hartenstein has for drawing coverage out on the perimiter as a
Stretch5/4 type presence, and his gifts as a passer. 

Grimes has been working out with Penny Hardaway, and during summer league, he showed a predilection for creating off of the dribble, driving to the hoop and finding open men.  Hopeful signs.  Needs to become much more consistent on his trey. 

Might Quentin beat out Evan for the starting 2-guard role?  Evan as a sixth man is an outcome not to be sniffed down on. 

We have a long ways to go in an UberCompetitive Eastern Conference, but we have a lot of depth, a pair of significant PG Bell Cows to set the tone, and a year of shared failures and triumphs and learned lessons behind us.  We have all learned from our struggles. 

THIBS, too. 

Onwards.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 27, 2022, 05:03:13 PM
I forgot RJ shot well on the back half of last season as well. He shot .401 from three over the entire season prior.

Fournier could be good and helpful as a bench sniper. I have no problem with him there as a modernized Steve Novak. He can handle that role at a high level.

I do not want to see Randle punished. I also do not want him rewarded for past results. I want him getting minutes if he outplays his competition. I do not think he can. Obi gives more focus and range defensively though neither guy is particularly good there and Obi creates easier opportunities without getting in his teammates way than Jules. I value that more than the 20, 10, and 5 Jules put up last year. If both are still here, we will see what Thibs thinks and see the fallout from that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 27, 2022, 06:06:32 PM
Re:  effective games... (for Barrett and others)

Basketball-reference does a great job with their "game score" statistic.

If you look  at a player's game log you can see the consistency/inconsistency of play by simple peering at game score column.  Also can see how many "over 15", "over 20" etc game scores for each guy with a little work.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 27, 2022, 11:40:59 PM
Lets go!!!  Roster spot open.



https://hoopshype.com/2022/08/27/carmelo-anthony-interested-in-knick-reunion/
Title: Q&A
Post by: carlos123 on August 28, 2022, 12:39:09 AM
Q.
Quote from: chipstern on August 27, 2022, 08:46:07 AM

Remains to be seen if Thibs evolves significantly.

A.
NO

Not that it matters much if the deal offered (supposedly) by Knucks goes through, or something even worse if Danny has his evil way.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 28, 2022, 11:44:53 AM
RJ the number FOURTEEN small frward?

https://hoopshype.com/lists/ranking-top-25-small-forwards-2022-23-season-lebron-giannis-kawhi-butler/?fbclid=IwAR37HqkSx6yazuzRaHtWDw2ZHRzX765K0uFatLsfCPgN0gHcDERmp7QQrvs
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on August 28, 2022, 01:36:24 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 27, 2022, 08:46:07 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 27, 2022, 04:15:24 AM
As to your other two questions, Chip

I think it is more likely than not that, given the two players respective games and the players we have to go around them, it will be easier to build successful units with Obi on the floor than Randle. If this is the case it is likely it is apparent in camp and further that it gets out. That would lead to drama, pressure, fractures, and wedges the team does not need while also moving his current perceived value from diminished to fire sake territory. Unless you think Randle would take a sixth man role and not get head casey about it. I could be wrong about this and Randle could confirm the established pecking order on his way to a blistering start. Thibs could name him captain and he could get back to ballin in private JR of two years ago. My feeling is it is heading the other way.

RJ shot .401 in the best distance shooting season of his short career. Grimes shot .381 as a rookie. Cam was shooting .379 with the Hawks before the trade and shot out of his mind in his only playoff run. That is the perspective I have looking at Evan shooting .389 for us last year. The younger three are better defenders with more effective floor games, more athleticism, and more room to grow.

That is why I think those two well compensated starters could and probably should lose minutes this season. Not because they are chopped liver, but because we have guys who though less experienced may have better games now. It would be a good problem to have should it be the case, but it would still be a problem that would need to be addressed. That is more true for Randle than Fournier based on their respective histories of handling setbacks and frustration. I do not see the outbursts from Randle as all behind him especially if things do not shape up the way he wants internally.

Interesting take.

Remains to be seen if Thibs evolves significantly.

Thib's "evolution."

Look, if he can't figure it out with Julius, he's going to lose his gig.

Randle's on-floor issues were partially the responsibility of the coach...and this year, Thibs will be held accountable.

On the other fronts, it would be great to see some signs of change. His approach on offense seems antiquated. At times, almost embarrassing. Every good team seemed to play a much quicker game than we did. And for a guy with a reputation for tough-nosed defense, where exactly was that last season?

Yes. Evolve. Or perish.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 28, 2022, 01:47:28 PM
It left town with Elfrid and Reggie?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 28, 2022, 01:59:49 PM
I dont agree on Thibs lack of offensive acumen.  Its about creating mismatches and making the extra pass when  it is there.  Not as much pick and roll as other teams, true.  But that has been personnel-dependent.  Thibs values his players attacking the game, never takes the rens from any of them.  Builds confidence< i feel.  Is there really any player you feel is being held back by something other than minutes?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 28, 2022, 03:26:36 PM
Elephant, we had the 11th best defensive rating all season last year and the league best after the all star break.

If there is a key to unlocking and refurbishing Jules, it is Hartenstein. He has the defensive chops to cover some warts on that end and can space, set up, and cut in ways that can open options on offense Jules has never had here. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 28, 2022, 06:28:27 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 28, 2022, 03:26:36 PM
Elephant, we had the 11th best defensive rating all season last year and the league best after the all star break.

If there is a key to unlocking and refurbishing Jules, it is Hartenstein. He has the defensive chops to cover some warts on that end and can space, set up, and cut in ways that can open options on offense Jules has never had here.

Be interesting to see how Thibs cross pollinates the first and second unit.

And how Mitchell responds to competitive juice from Hartenstein and Sims.

Likewise, Mitchell is overdue for some new wrinkles in his role on the offensive end.

Remember that play late in the season when he put the ball on the floor and dribbled down to the hoop to set up his own unassisted SlammaJamma?
Title: Why?
Post by: chipstern on August 28, 2022, 08:59:00 PM
I see that SquidFarter is still campaigning for the Knicks to sign Carmelo.

RJ Barrett, Evan Fournier, Cam Reddish,
Julius Randle, Obi Toppin, Isaiah Hartenstein

Again, what am I missing here?

What need does Anthony fill? 

What players does he supplant? 

PS: Question.  Why does Carmelo Anthony remain unsigned?  Riddle me that?  Why do the Lakers of all people seem indifferent to his contribution? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 28, 2022, 10:53:34 PM
I do not think signing Anthony at this point in his career implies any promise of minutes. His role is steadily diminishing since he was in OKC. He is 37 already. I can think of worse depth pieces than Melo behind Randle and Toppin. Unfortunately the NY media would go overboard making a thing out of it if he sat significantly more than he played which would be the intent. For that reason it might be worth passing on both sides.

Since every single player on our roster can dust him, though none can shut him down, I do not mind him going to a rival club if we or he chooses to pass on a reunion.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 28, 2022, 11:40:37 PM
Mitchell only makes sense in NY if he is running point. Maybe we revisit it once we can move Brunson.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 29, 2022, 12:20:12 AM

PS: Question.  Why does Carmelo Anthony remain unsigned?  Riddle me that?  Why do the Lakers of all people seem indifferent to his contribution?


Melo will have a choice of teams in the end.
Title: WOW
Post by: chipstern on August 29, 2022, 12:32:27 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 28, 2022, 11:40:37 PM
Mitchell only makes sense in NY if he is running point. Maybe we revisit it once we can move Brunson.

You have ascended to the realm of the phantasmagorical. 

Wow...WOW

Just

WOW
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 29, 2022, 10:08:58 AM
Fac is beaten since he isnt genuine.  Likes to just say shit to be an asshole.  Likely knows more about issues than appears.  Just lets his combative personality rule what he types.

A better Fac would sure make for better forum, here and elsewhere.  But he has to bury his anger first.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on August 29, 2022, 02:17:17 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 28, 2022, 03:26:36 PM
Elephant, we had the 11th best defensive rating all season last year and the league best after the all star break.

If there is a key to unlocking and refurbishing Jules, it is Hartenstein. He has the defensive chops to cover some warts on that end and can space, set up, and cut in ways that can open options on offense Jules has never had here.

Yes to the potential of Hartenstein! Looking forward to seeing him more.

No to the bullshit about our defense. The drop off last year was significant. And we won just 37 fucking games! Stop with the argument about defensive power. The other guys score more points than we do! And in close 4th quarter games, we tended not to make the stops that playoff teams do.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 29, 2022, 02:44:50 PM
Quote from: elephant on August 29, 2022, 02:17:17 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 28, 2022, 03:26:36 PM
Elephant, we had the 11th best defensive rating all season last year and the league best after the all star break.

If there is a key to unlocking and refurbishing Jules, it is Hartenstein. He has the defensive chops to cover some warts on that end and can space, set up, and cut in ways that can open options on offense Jules has never had here.

Yes to the potential of Hartenstein! Looking forward to seeing him more.

No to the bullshit about our defense. The drop off last year was significant. And we won just 37 fucking games! Stop with the argument about defensive power. The other guys score more points than we do! And in close 4th quarter games, we tended not to make the stops that playoff teams do.

I thought we sucked in the fourth quarter in parts because

* No Point Guard

* Predictable offense

* Thibs over played our starters and they were simply gassed
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 29, 2022, 03:01:32 PM
Svi!!!  Open roster spot

 Shams Charania   The Toronto Raptors are waiving forward Svi Mykhailiuk, sources tell  TheAthletic  Stadium. Mykhailiuk, who is currently playing for Ukraines national team at FIBA EuroBasket, is seeking a fresh start elsewhere
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 29, 2022, 03:02:35 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 29, 2022, 02:44:50 PM
Quote from: elephant on August 29, 2022, 02:17:17 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 28, 2022, 03:26:36 PM
Elephant, we had the 11th best defensive rating all season last year and the league best after the all star break.

If there is a key to unlocking and refurbishing Jules, it is Hartenstein. He has the defensive chops to cover some warts on that end and can space, set up, and cut in ways that can open options on offense Jules has never had here.

Yes to the potential of Hartenstein! Looking forward to seeing him more.

No to the bullshit about our defense. The drop off last year was significant. And we won just 37 fucking games! Stop with the argument about defensive power. The other guys score more points than we do! And in close 4th quarter games, we tended not to make the stops that playoff teams do.

I thought we sucked in the fourth quarter in parts because

* No Point Guard

* Predictable offense

* Thibs over played our starters and they were simply gassed

but most importantly.....

(cue Thibs)

the other teams executed better
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on August 29, 2022, 04:13:41 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 29, 2022, 02:44:50 PM
Quote from: elephant on August 29, 2022, 02:17:17 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 28, 2022, 03:26:36 PM
Elephant, we had the 11th best defensive rating all season last year and the league best after the all star break.

If there is a key to unlocking and refurbishing Jules, it is Hartenstein. He has the defensive chops to cover some warts on that end and can space, set up, and cut in ways that can open options on offense Jules has never had here.

Yes to the potential of Hartenstein! Looking forward to seeing him more.

No to the bullshit about our defense. The drop off last year was significant. And we won just 37 fucking games! Stop with the argument about defensive power. The other guys score more points than we do! And in close 4th quarter games, we tended not to make the stops that playoff teams do.

I thought we sucked in the fourth quarter in parts because

* No Point Guard

* Predictable offense

* Thibs over played our starters and they were simply gassed

This...is also true.
Title: Elephant Dance [a.k.a. Who Blinks First?]
Post by: chipstern on August 29, 2022, 06:02:39 PM
I know you are an enthusiast for a Mitchell Deal

I am NOT

Be that as it may

Proud of Leon Rose and Brock Aller and Scott Perry and Walt Perrin not letting themselves get punked by Ainge. 

The points of contention appear to be

* The Knicks unwillingness to include R.J.

* The Knicks unwillingness to offload ALL OF THEIR UNPROTECTED #1 Picks [2023-24-25-26-27-28-29 in alternating years]

I am sure that the Dallas 2023 #1 [Top 10 Protected] is on the table. 

Pistons pick is Top 18 protected in 2023-24, Top 13 in 2025.

Wizards pick is Top 14 protected 2023-25. 

Bucks 2025 Top 4 protected. 

That's FOUR #1 picks. 

I suspect the Knicks are offering all four of those picks, probably whatever second rounders they have left, plus one of our own unprotected #1 picks PLUS Evan Fournier. 

FIVE #1 picks is a pretty generous offer where I come from. 

Likewise, Fournier could be flippable to the Lakers with Conley-or-whatfuckingever [Clarkson-Bogdonavich-Beasley] for Westbrook and the Lakers 2027 and 2029 #1 picks. 

Westbrook/Mitchell salary comes off the cap in the summer of 2023, which is significant. 

Ainge ends up with what, SEVEN Motherfucking #1 picks.  And cap space.

Potentially LOTS OF FUCKING CAP SPACE In The Summer Of 2023

Mitchell [$30,000,000]
Conley [$22-24,000,000 through 2024
Bogdonavitch [$19.5 million expring in 2023]
Beasley [$16.5 million team option in 2023]

I mean, HOLY ACTUAL FUCKING DAMN, that's $88,000,000 in cap space in the summer of 2023. 

Not TOO Shabby. 

Clearly the Knicks are willing to part with ONE of our own #1 picks. 

Clearly Ainge wants FOUR UNPROTECTED #1 picks  plus all of the protected picks.

PLUS, oh, I don't know: Grimes, Toppin, RJ.

Clearly the Knicks have told him, uh, WE DON'T THINK SO....

CLEARLY AINGE has run out of bluffs. 

Seven #1 picks, a Sam Presti-Like Haul, plus writing off both Mitchell-Conley's salaries, with close to $90,000,000 in cap space. 

Don't be greedy, Danny.

I take it back. 

Be GREEDY Danny, cause Leon-Brock-Scott-Walt have made it clear that they ain't going to buckle. 

Training camp is less than a month away. 

I say fuck it, but clearly a deal is still in play.

Stay tuned.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 29, 2022, 07:40:15 PM
If you want a team that caps out with wins in the 40s if everything breaks right struggles in the play in to get knocked out in the first round, start Mitchell and Brunson together in the backcourt.

In any iteration of the trade that I have seen, we would be a weaker team than we would be turning it down.

I am happy to see Mitchell on any of our rivals provided they have to make a deal Ainge likes to get him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 29, 2022, 08:26:34 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 29, 2022, 07:40:15 PM
If you want a team that caps out with wins in the 40s if everything breaks right struggles in the play in to get knocked out in the first round, start Mitchell and Brunson together in the backcourt.

In any iteration of the trade that I have seen, we would be a weaker team than we would be turning it down.

I am happy to see Mitchell on any of our rivals provided they have to make a deal Ainge likes to get him.

What's that expression, too many cooks spoils the broth? 

I have nothing but respect for Mitchell. 

But Brunson DESERVES to be our unchallenged bell cow.  The LEADER. 

To me, duplicating skills in a pair of matched 6'1" combo guards muddies the water. 

Mitchell is a ball dominant stylist, and to me, that takes away from Jalen's skillset. 

Not saying Donovan is selfish. 

But for his career he AVERAGES just under 20 shots a game [.448%] and 5 FTAs [.833%]

Hello. 

Jalen's stats aren't nearly as gaudy.  Last year he was basically 16-4-5 on a little under 13 shots a game, shooting FTs at a .840%

If we hadn't signed Brunson, I would be all in to try and land DM and make him our lead guard. 

But we signed Jalen to be our lead guard. 

Jalen + Grimes
Jalen + IQ
Jalen + Fournier [12 shots a game]
Jalen + RJ [17 shots a game]
Jalen + Julius [17 shots a game]

Just makes more sense, seems more coherent to me than Brunson + Mitchell. 

I mean, Julius [.411%]-RJ [.408%]-Evan [.417%], in that order, were our three leading scorers.  I should like to see how much more efficient they could be getting the ball in better rhythm to make shots with someone like Brunson ruddering the ship.  I mean, you wanna look at fourth quarter meltdowns?  Look at those FG% of our three top scorers.  Hell IQ is the fourth leading scorer of our returning players [not counting Rose], and his FG% was even more dismal, at .392%

All of which suggests to me, too many damn possessions in the fourth quarter where Julius, RJ, Evan or IQ is pounding the fucking rock, looking to make a something out of nothing, with NO ONE TO CREATE EASY LOOKS FOR THEM. 

Again, this was THE ENTIRE IDEA IN PURSUING JALEN.  Does this suggest that we'd be better with two facilitators in the backcourt than one? 

Is this the repeat of the "only one basketball, how are Clyde AND the Pearl going to co-exist?"   

Of course, Clyde was 6'4" and Pearl was 6'3" 

So maybe Jalen AND Donovan could work.  Talent will out.

I'm just not feeling it at the price of gutting our puppies and draft capital. I'd rather suckle Grimes and have him compete with Fournier. 

But hey, what do I know? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 29, 2022, 09:35:47 PM
I don't want this trade.

I think hope when - not if -  the trade happens, there will be a reasonable amount of Knick assets left over to make the NEXT trade possible.

So at the end of the day, I think the trade happens, and as a fan, i'll fall in line.

But even if this trade is ultimately not judged as an OVERPAY.... it's still investing a shit-ton of capital in one guy.   

And that guy, who may be a Top 10 Knick of all time the moment he puts on the jersey, might still not be good enough to get it done without a lot of help. 

What are we buying?  10 more wins in the regular season and one round of playoffs?   

Leon has to keep assets for the next deal, and RJ needs to take another two steps forward.   

Mitchell
Best Case RJ
Mystery PlayerX

Are a potentially young fun big 3.

Who is that other guy... Brandon Ingram?   Karl-Anthony?   Jaylen Brown?    ..... Who is the next All-Star to want out?

That is the path that Leon embarks on if he makes this trade.   That is the logical conclusion to hanging onto assets so you can have enough ammo left over to get that final piece.


IF we don't make this trade, a lot more scenarios open up.   But we have to use our rose-colored glasses even more as not only RJ must evolve to his best self, but we would need OBI to make a jump as well.   

That's a lot of IFs, but watching those two boys develop will be quite enjoyable for a large section of the fan base who want to watch us build a team through the draft.   

We would almost certainly look to trade Julius and Evan to make room for Cam and OBI, who would probably both be gone in any Mitchell trade.

Youth would be truly served.

What are we buying?  Maybe the same amount of wins as losses, and a playoff bid.   

But we would feel good about the team's direction.

It's a very tempting path not in small part due to the fact that the bar for what would be considered a success (a first round playoff appearance) would be cause for disappointment if that is as far as we got after moving all those assets in the first scenario.

I don't envy Leon here.

But he can certainly play hardball and I encourage him to do so.

I like our team.  I don't need Leon to make this trade for me to consider this offseason a good one.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 29, 2022, 11:41:02 PM
Quote from: Kam on August 29, 2022, 09:35:47 PM
I don't want this trade.

I think hope when - not if -  the trade happens, there will be a reasonable amount of Knick assets left over to make the NEXT trade possible.

So at the end of the day, I think the trade happens, and as a fan, i'll fall in line.

But even if this trade is ultimately not judged as an OVERPAY.... it's still investing a shit-ton of capital in one guy.   

And that guy, who may be a Top 10 Knick of all time the moment he puts on the jersey, might still not be good enough to get it done without a lot of help. 

What are we buying?  10 more wins in the regular season and one round of playoffs?   

Leon has to keep assets for the next deal, and RJ needs to take another two steps forward.   

Mitchell
Best Case RJ
Mystery PlayerX

Are a potentially young fun big 3.

Who is that other guy... Brandon Ingram?   Karl-Anthony?   Jaylen Brown?    ..... Who is the next All-Star to want out?

That is the path that Leon embarks on if he makes this trade.   That is the logical conclusion to hanging onto assets so you can have enough ammo left over to get that final piece.


IF we don't make this trade, a lot more scenarios open up.   But we have to use our rose-colored glasses even more as not only RJ must evolve to his best self, but we would need OBI to make a jump as well.   

That's a lot of IFs, but watching those two boys develop will be quite enjoyable for a large section of the fan base who want to watch us build a team through the draft.   

We would almost certainly look to trade Julius and Evan to make room for Cam and OBI, who would probably both be gone in any Mitchell trade.

Youth would be truly served.

What are we buying?  Maybe the same amount of wins as losses, and a playoff bid.   

But we would feel good about the team's direction.

It's a very tempting path not in small part due to the fact that the bar for what would be considered a success (a first round playoff appearance) would be cause for disappointment if that is as far as we got after moving all those assets in the first scenario.

I don't envy Leon here.

But he can certainly play hardball and I encourage him to do so.

I like our team.  I don't need Leon to make this trade for me to consider this offseason a good one.

Making sense, Kam. 

I've girded myself for a trade, though my posture is to stand pat, and agree with you that this has been a good offseason. 
Title: Look What I Found
Post by: chipstern on August 29, 2022, 11:45:30 PM
According to the NY DAILY NEWS and ESPN scribe Adrian Wojnaworski, the Knicks Leon Rose gave Ainge a deadline of Monday night to strike a deal and if none were concluded the Knicks would be moving on. 

And...AND

Are finalizing a rookie deal extension for R.J. Barrett. 

A lot of Knicks fans are going to shudder at the numbers, and any future talks on a DM deal would involve a poison pill provision. 

So...unlikely.   

Up yours, Danny 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 30, 2022, 12:38:21 AM
4 years 120 some of that as allstar and allNBA bonuses, so say 28-29 a year.

On both counts a really good day for our franchise.
Title: On Ice
Post by: chipstern on August 30, 2022, 01:12:08 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 30, 2022, 12:38:21 AM
4 years 120 some of that as allstar and allNBA bonuses, so say 28-29 a year.

On both counts a really good day for our franchise.

Apparently R.J, qualified for a 5-year rookie max extension, which would have given him an extra year, and come out like $190 million instead of $120. 

Or as Berman so elegantly parsed it, considering the money left on the table, THIS IS HOW MUCH R.J. did not want TO GO TO UTAH.   

Considering what top tier players are getting paid, the Knicks took care of their first stringers, but got them to accept money just south of over the top...a hometown price, indicative of their desire to BE KNICKS. 

Julius: 23-25-27-29
Jalen: 27-26-24-24
Mitchell: 17-15-14-13 
Evan: 18-18-19
Rose: 14-15

Blue=Player Option
Shadow=Team Option

Darius Garland is a more esteemed talent than Brunson. 

33-35-38-41

Likewise Ja Morant

33-35-38-41

Trae Young

37-40-43-45-48

Zion

33-35-38-41

Obviously Jalen and R.J. are a tier below these cats.

Still, it is interesting, don't you think, that despite what some douche nozzle fans have blurted about the Knicks overpaying, they have tied up their top players at prices amenable to the talent, and leaving the team some future flex. 

Jericho got what amounted to Mitchell's initial make good deal. 

We have Isaiah, Obi, IQ, Cam and Quentin on rookie scale deals under 10 million motivated to make the case for their ascension. 

Miles, Trevor and Felton on second round scaled deals. 

We have Rokas Jokubaitis getting another year of experience as a PG for Barcelona. 

We have all of those draft picks we didn't give to Danny Ainge. 

And we have R.J., Jalen, Julius, Mitchell, Evan and Derrick motivated to Earn Their Ale moving forward and represent NYC as KNICKS.   

Giant steps?

No.

A top tier playoff team?

No. 

But no desperate missteps.  No overpaying for shiny objects. 

A Mitchell Transaction ain't dead.  But it is mos def on ice...

Leon has drawn a line in the sand, and has SEEMINGLY learned from the faux pas and desperation of predecesors who pursued shiny objects at any cost. 

BABY STEPS in lieu of Missteps. 

We cashiered the elderly, have committed to our youth, in word and deed, got Thibs his Point Guard, a Center with an offensive game, and kept our draft assets and salary flex, for pursuit of those elusive and seemingly rarer and rarer prize free agents, or more likely, to package picks in such a way that in upcoming drafts instead of moving out, we could be moving UP. 

Leon Rose Lives By The Hippocratic Oath [Kemba Walker Nothwithstanding]

Do No HARM
Title: F*ck Danny Ainge
Post by: carlos123 on August 30, 2022, 01:50:17 AM
Quote from: chipstern on August 29, 2022, 11:45:30 PM

Up yours, Danny

F*CK EVIL DANNY AINGE

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 30, 2022, 03:09:24 AM
What are we buying?  10 more wins in the regular season and one round of playoffs?   


Well////

yes

but anything could happen after that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on August 30, 2022, 12:46:38 PM
Indeed.

The idea that DM is somehow a first round-and-out player is just silly.

Those Jazz teams didn't exactly surround him with championship talent.
A largely one-way companion star.
A very late period Mike Conley.
Some pretty decent role players, Ingles, Royce, et al.
Why would that be a championship squad?

Donovan is a magical offensive player. The other end will have to improve.
Let's do this thing, yes, the price has to be right, and I think it will be.

*** personally, I don't want Obi in the deal, god-given touch around the rim that kid, want to see where it goes and won't enjoy the implied commitment to Julius, but that's me.

**** RJ better earn that contract, it is not extreme, but he is barely a net-winning player so far and he has had unlimited rope, go do it RJ

***** If we don't do it, I'm OK too, but I don't think there's any way we don't do it
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 30, 2022, 03:04:53 PM
Posted elsewhere:


The hope   With a new deal and able to relax, Barrett has his best statistical season.  If we can couple this with a season from Randle in between his last two and adding the steady rudder of Brunson, even without other additions this could be a 50 win second round playoff squad ready to surge the following year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 30, 2022, 03:33:57 PM
Love this:

Yet I am also hearing that, if no trade involving Westbrook materializes and if he is on the roster when the Lakers start practicing on Sept. 27, new Lakers coach Darvin Ham remains determined to carve out a real role for Westbrook. Sources say that the Lakers, to date, have strongly resisted the idea of shelving Westbrook completely until they can find a trade for him like the Rockets tried last season with John Wall   even after trading for longtime Westbrook adversary Patrick Beverley. Westbrook, who turns 34 in November, appeared in 78 of the Lakers 82 games last season
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 30, 2022, 03:44:46 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on August 30, 2022, 03:04:53 PM
Posted elsewhere:


The hope   With a new deal and able to relax, Barrett has his best statistical season.  If we can couple this with a season from Randle in between his last two and adding the steady rudder of Brunson, even without other additions this could be a 50 win second round playoff squad ready to surge the following year.

Yup.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on August 31, 2022, 12:49:55 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 30, 2022, 03:44:46 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on August 30, 2022, 03:04:53 PM
Posted elsewhere:


The hope   With a new deal and able to relax, Barrett has his best statistical season.  If we can couple this with a season from Randle in between his last two and adding the steady rudder of Brunson, even without other additions this could be a 50 win second round playoff squad ready to surge the following year.

Yup.

Can you just fix this with putting the word

HOPE

like so?

And maybe add some big prayerful Jesus hands for good measure?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on August 31, 2022, 12:54:22 AM
Because I genuinely hope they'll win 50, 60 games. Name a higher number, I'll take it. I want it.

But a (cough) pessimist might point out that the same guys that led you to a sub-playoff season, Randle+Barrett+Thibs remain the core of the Knicks.

So we're hoping these three will prove their worth, prove they're contenders. We're hoping Barrett is young enough to make a real jump. We're hoping that Julius will have a season like he had a couple of years ago. We're hoping that Mr. Brunson will make everyone a whole lot better.

Oh, and there's hoping that Grimes will become an all star.

Lot of hoping going on.

But as of today....we're still a team without a single star.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 31, 2022, 09:37:12 AM
I think we have (sub-super) stars.

A 20-6-3.5-1-0.5-44-35-72 line over 75+ games is actually star quality.  Hoping this for R.J.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on August 31, 2022, 01:46:27 PM
Man, the way you guys use Barrett's numbers!

Let me put on my house contrarian hat and point you to the basics.

His average of 20 points/game last year ranks him at a nice respectable 40th place in scoring.

And his shooting percentage? For that, he moves down to #105.

(note, this stat isn't especially revealing, as big men naturally have better percentages, and even great players like Stephen Curry, who comes in as #88, can have a penchant for making 3's and making baskets at the right time. But still Barrett's #105 is awfully low.)

Perhaps when you consider all the stats together, Barrett is a star. Again, I don't think so. But could he be? Yeah. Absolutely. That's what we're waiting to see.

BTW I would argue that the attributes defining a "star" transcend statistics. Stars lead teams and create wins, sometimes through a magical process that looks like sheer will power and determination.

You know it when you see it.

I don't see it yet.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 31, 2022, 03:24:50 PM
Well.....

you  saw someone lead Knicks to  wins over good teams last year.


Maybe it was mostly Burks?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 31, 2022, 03:49:19 PM
Quote from: elephant on August 31, 2022, 01:46:27 PM
Man, the way you guys use Barrett's numbers!

Let me put on my house contrarian hat and point you to the basics.

His average of 20 points/game last year ranks him at a nice respectable 40th place in scoring.

And his shooting percentage? For that, he moves down to #105.

(note, this stat isn't especially revealing, as big men naturally have better percentages, and even great players like Stephen Curry, who comes in as #88, can have a penchant for making 3's and making baskets at the right time. But still Barrett's #105 is awfully low.)

Perhaps when you consider all the stats together, Barrett is a star. Again, I don't think so. But could he be? Yeah. Absolutely. That's what we're waiting to see.

BTW I would argue that the attributes defining a "star" transcend statistics. Stars lead teams and create wins, sometimes through a magical process that looks like sheer will power and determination.

You know it when you see it.

I don't see it yet.

Jalen Brunson?
Title: Star Light, Star Bright, Get One Star And All Is Right
Post by: chipstern on August 31, 2022, 03:55:07 PM
Quote from: elephant on August 31, 2022, 12:54:22 AM
Because I genuinely hope they'll win 50, 60 games. Name a higher number, I'll take it. I want it.

But a (cough) pessimist might point out that the same guys that led you to a sub-playoff season, Randle+Barrett+Thibs remain the core of the Knicks.

So we're hoping these three will prove their worth, prove they're contenders. We're hoping Barrett is young enough to make a real jump. We're hoping that Julius will have a season like he had a couple of years ago. We're hoping that Mr. Brunson will make everyone a whole lot better.

Oh, and there's hoping that Grimes will become an all star.

Lot of hoping going on.

But as of today....we're still a team without a single star.

Ah yes...STARS

Denver gets

Wilson Chandler
Raymond Felton
Danilo Gallinari
Timofey Mozgov
the Knicks 2014 first-round draft pick
the Warriors' 2012 second-round pick (obtained from previous trade)
the Warriors' 2013 second-round pick (obtained from previous trade)
$3 million in cash.

Knicks receive

Carmelo Anthony
Chauncey Billups
Shelden Williams
Anthony Carter
Renaldo Balkman.

Basically, four starters and a #1 for Carmelo. 

Billups played one season.  Amare's knees gave out. 

We gutted our team for a star. 

Put up great stats. 

We won...NOTHING. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on August 31, 2022, 04:13:27 PM
Chaunceyyyyyy, baby.

Thanks for reminding us how cheap they were.
Title: Elephantasy
Post by: chipstern on August 31, 2022, 04:23:51 PM
By the way.

I feel your pain.

You long for a clear cut bell cow. 

I get it. 

The process of developing master players from zygotes is interminable, is it not. 

RJ is a good player, right, but not a great player. 

Ever?

Or yet?

Has gotten better every year. 

Significant growth after the All-Star Break. 

Would I love to have Donovan Mitchell? 

Sure. 

Would I love to pay Danny Ainge's price?

No thanks. 

Having said THAT, there seems to be some inevitability of a deal getting done. 

So far Leon Rose has not caved. 

Again, I suspect if the Lakers get involved, something might get done. 

MEANWHILE

Brunson, Rose-Quickley [?]
Grimes, Fournier-Quickley [?]
Barrett, Fournier-Reddish [?]
Randle, Toppin
Robinson, Hartenstein/Sims [?]

Given, I am the Patron Saint of Incurably Hopeful POSITIVE PUSSIES. 

But your WE DON'T HAVE A SINGLE STAR?

I am largely unmoved. 

Nor, moving forward, does the premise which holds that Donovam Mitchell IS A STAR and gets us ANOTHER STAR. 

Well.

Who?

Where? 

When? 

Rookie Max Contracts and the Structure Of Free Agency would seem to mitigate against TOP TIER FREE AGENTS COMING ON THE MARKET. 

Who exactly do we see coming on ther market? 

I'd rather roll the dice on our puppies, and building a collective bond of team chemistry. 

Here are 2023 FAs

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/2023/ (https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/2023/)

Here are 2024 FAs

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/2024/ufa/ (https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/2024/ufa/)

Looking into your Krystal Ball, who would you project as a Knick? 

So not seeing sufficient progress?  Whatsoever our mis-steps [Kemba Walker] and quasi mis-steps [Julius, Evan] of the past couple of years, we have a front office with a certain sense of patience and proportion, not pouncing reflexively on the  first shiny objects to cross their path

We have a certain stability in terms of "veteran" players who have standing individually and collectively entering yet another year as Knicks: Mitchell [4 years], Julius [3 years], RJ [3 years], Rose [2 years], Obi [2 years], IQ [2 years]

We have a coach staff and a system in place, headed by Thibs and Johnny Bryant, entering  its third season.

The revolving door of front office personnel, players and coaches that distinguished the past two decades seems to have abated. 

The short term thinking which led us to eat our young or quickly discard them for worn out veterans?  The tendency to throw away draft picks as if they were Halloween Kandy Korn? 

GIVEN: To Be A Knicks Fan Is To Suffer.

However, be it ever so humble, what we've seen, mis-steps and all, over the past few years, it nevertheless constitutes...PROGRESS.  [GIVEN, the bar be set very low]

2016-2017: Jackson & Hornacek [31-51]
2017-2018: Mills & Hornacek [29-53]
2018-19: Fizdale & Mills [17-65]
2019-20: Fizdale/Miller & Mills/Perry, Rose [21-45]
2020-21: Thibodeau & Rose [41-31]
2021-22: Thibodeau & Rose [37-45]

Adding Brunson & Hartenstein, re-upping Robinson & Barrett, and nurturing Toppin, Quickley, Grimes, Reddish, Sims, McBride [and praying for the immortal souls of Julius Randle & Evan Fournier] obviously does not rock your world. 

I feel you. 

But Brunson counts as a significant addition, and not having a revolving door of coaches and players and squandered draft picks seems significant to me. 

I guess I'm just a Positive Pussy who is easy to please. 

Stay strong, Elephant. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 31, 2022, 08:13:45 PM
So Who is rounding out our training camp roster?
Title: Roster
Post by: carlos123 on September 01, 2022, 01:22:58 AM
Quote from: Fac on August 31, 2022, 08:13:45 PM
So Who is rounding out our training camp roster?

Jimmer Fredette?

Speaking on behalf of you-know-who. . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 01, 2022, 03:15:55 AM
As radio guy in Westchester maybe, unless we got one.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 01, 2022, 03:32:36 AM
Simms, Dequan Jefferies, Archie if he has not latched on elsewhere all come to mind.

That would take us to eighteen with two open places. 13 contracts, 2 two-ways, 3 pay as you go. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 01, 2022, 02:03:15 PM
Reddish not ready to buy in

https://hoopshype.com/2022/09/01/looking-for-a-larger-role-cam-reddish-wants-trade-out-of-new-york-lakers-interested/

The door is over THERE, pal.
Title: Happy Birthday To Cam Reddish
Post by: chipstern on September 01, 2022, 02:24:52 PM
"Thanks to all of you for the kind wishes.  What do I want for my birthday?  Why to escape Tom Thibodeaux's lingering disdain and to come off the bench for the Lakers."

DM deal seems to be shaping up. 

Let's see.

Knicks kick in Cam Reddish, Evan Fournier
Three Protected #1 Picks
One UnProtected #1 Pick
Some Second Rounders

Lakers kick in their 2027 & 2029 UnProtected #1 Picks
Russell Westbrook

Jazz kick in Mike Conley, Rudy Gay, Jordan Clarkson

Lakers make out like bandits, get some legit veteran pieces AND offload Westbrook in the bargain. 

Jazz offload Conley and Gay's $30 million in contracts.  And cop 3 protected and 3 unprotected #1 picks. 

Do either or both Reddish and Fournier end up on the Lakers/Jazz? 

Knicks?

Brunson, Rose, McBride
Mitchell, Quickley, Keels
Barrett, Grimes, Hunt
Randle, Toppin
Robinson, Hartenstein, Sims

PS: Note to Reddish.  You being a 3-4-2, the Lakers have this LeBron James fellow at SF, Anthony Davis at PF.  Oh, and Patrick Beverley, Kendrick Nunn, Austin Reaves and Lonnie Walker in the backcourt.  Might get more opportunity for playing time with the Jazz. 

PPS: This being said, I'd still rather stand pat and hold on to our assets.  I think Mitchell is a mirage.  A talented mirage, a damn talented mirage, but not an ideal pairing with Brunson. 

PPPS: Perhaps we could modulate this phantasy to get Jordan Clarkson on the Knicks, as per his Booster Facil, although that kind of negates the salary/roster spot point of offloading Fournier, though Clarkson would give us coverage at SG & PG

PPPPS: But hey, what do I know. 

 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 01, 2022, 02:44:41 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on September 01, 2022, 02:03:15 PM
Reddish not ready to buy in

https://hoopshype.com/2022/09/01/looking-for-a-larger-role-cam-reddish-wants-trade-out-of-new-york-lakers-interested/

The door is over THERE, pal.

Some schmucks still take Berman at face value. Sad.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 01, 2022, 02:48:26 PM
Chip. I am not a Clarkson booster. Not needed here. Standing pat. Thanks. Looking forward to seeing what Cam brings to the table this season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 01, 2022, 02:57:33 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 01, 2022, 02:48:26 PM
Chip. I am not a Clarkson booster. Not needed here. Standing pat. Thanks. Looking forward to seeing what Cam brings to the table this season.

So my recollection of FaciliTaTing a Fournier > Clarkson exchange is faulty. 

Point taken. 

Cam?  Would really like to see him compete with Toppin, RJ, Fournier, Grimes and IQ. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 01, 2022, 03:17:48 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 01, 2022, 02:57:33 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 01, 2022, 02:48:26 PM
Chip. I am not a Clarkson booster. Not needed here. Standing pat. Thanks. Looking forward to seeing what Cam brings to the table this season.

So my recollection of FaciliTaTing a Fournier > Clarkson exchange is faulty. 

Point taken. 

Cam?  Would really like to see him compete with Toppin, RJ, Fournier, Grimes and IQ.

Hell

I'd Like To See

CAM

Compete With

KAM
Title: YIPPEE--THIS Just In
Post by: chipstern on September 01, 2022, 03:55:48 PM
Jazz & Cavs work out a deal. 

Sign & Trade combo guard Colin Sexton

Stretch 4 Lauri Markkannen

Shooting Guard Ochai Agbaji, out of Kansas, drafted #14 by the Cavs in 2022

THREE unprotected #1 picks

TWO Pick Swaps
 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 01, 2022, 04:07:28 PM
Bullet dodged.

I will be watching the team defensive rating in Cleveland and how their morale shapes up.

Allen and Mobley provide a lot of coverage, but will it be enough. 
Title: CAVS
Post by: chipstern on September 01, 2022, 04:10:16 PM
PG: Darius Garland, Ricky Rubio, Raul Neto
SG: Donovan Mitchell, Caris LaVert
SF: Isaac Okoro, Cedi Osman
PF-C: Jarret Allen, Evan Mobley, Isaiah Mobley, Kevin Love, Robin Lopez

Not too shabby a 12-Man rotation. 

CLEARLY...

Ainge had this deal in his back pocket...all along. 

Was just a matter of seeing if he could finger blast Leon Rose and use the media and fan base to give up WAY TOO FUCKING MUCH in draft capital and young players. 

Leon didn't go for it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 01, 2022, 04:11:16 PM
It was not a full fleece, but Ainge did well.

I expect his next move is to go get some picks off the Lakers for Russ.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 01, 2022, 04:16:37 PM
YES!!!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 01, 2022, 04:23:02 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 01, 2022, 04:11:16 PM
It was not a full fleece, but Ainge did well.

I expect his next move is to go get some picks off the Lakers for Russ.

Hey, a damn good haul for the Jazz

Sexton can play on and off the ball, is 23, and a Mitchell doppleganger, who can team with Conley [assuming he ain't dealt to the Lakers], and Taylor Horton, plus big wings Bolmaro, Alexander-Walker and the kid from Kansas. 

Markkanen is a 7-foot stretch 4 and 25. 

They got rookie Kessler from Minny to play center [21]

SOMETIMES THE BEST DEALS ARE THE ONES YOU DON'T MAKE. 

Leon Rose determined that the Knicks were not going to be punked. 

I APPLAUD HIM
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on September 01, 2022, 04:35:07 PM
Thank god this shit is over with.

I was never an advocate of the Mitchell trade at any price and, as I've said 100 times, really hopeful that a scrappy point guard can spark our collective talent.

I just get irritated by the pipe-dream tendency of mis-using stats and elevating guys just because they're wearing a Knicks uniform. Last year, we were a losing team and we should not have been. Apparently nobody wants to take any blame for that.

If Barrett can change that equation, he's got my vote for sheriff or mayor or whatever fucking title he wants. Even star.

Just something he's gotta earn.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on September 01, 2022, 04:39:24 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 01, 2022, 04:23:02 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 01, 2022, 04:11:16 PM
It was not a full fleece, but Ainge did well.

I expect his next move is to go get some picks off the Lakers for Russ.

Hey, a damn good haul for the Jazz

Sexton can play on and off the ball, is 23, and a Mitchell doppleganger, who can team with Conley [assuming he ain't dealt to the Lakers], and Taylor Horton, plus big wings Bolmaro, Alexander-Walker and the kid from Kansas. 

Markkanen is a 7-foot stretch 4 and 25. 

They got rookie Kessler from Minny to play center [21]

SOMETIMES THE BEST DEALS ARE THE ONES YOU DON'T MAKE. 

Leon Rose determined that the Knicks were not going to be punked. 

I APPLAUD HIM

Yeah, I agree. I kept reading that no one could offer a deal like the Knicks....but if I'm the Jazz, I'd be feeling pretty good with this.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 01, 2022, 05:01:10 PM
Quote from: elephant on September 01, 2022, 04:39:24 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 01, 2022, 04:23:02 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 01, 2022, 04:11:16 PM
It was not a full fleece, but Ainge did well.

I expect his next move is to go get some picks off the Lakers for Russ.

Hey, a damn good haul for the Jazz

Sexton can play on and off the ball, is 23, and a Mitchell doppleganger, who can team with Conley [assuming he ain't dealt to the Lakers], and Taylor Horton, plus big wings Bolmaro, Alexander-Walker and the kid from Kansas. 

Markkanen is a 7-foot stretch 4 and 25. 

They got rookie Kessler from Minny to play center [21]

SOMETIMES THE BEST DEALS ARE THE ONES YOU DON'T MAKE. 

Leon Rose determined that the Knicks were not going to be punked. 

I APPLAUD HIM

Yeah, I agree. I kept reading that no one could offer a deal like the Knicks....but if I'm the Jazz, I'd be feeling pretty good with this.

Losing team and shouldn't have been? 

Well...if I may? 

The KEMBA trade, and Rose going down [not to mention Noel going down], queered our season, and certainly played a part in the crappy start both of our bell cows, Julius AND R.J. had through the all-star break, not to mention how IQ & Obi struggled with inconsistent minutes and looking over their shoulders.  Of course, the whole COVID thing didn't help either.  Both Grimes AND McBride had some breakout games and then had to sit out in protocols. 

Thibs has to shoulder some of the responsibility, in so far as his response to Walker and tasking Burks with being a point, did not help.  And NOT PLAYING OUR PUPS. 

In fairness to him, we got the D together more or less after the All-Star break. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 01, 2022, 05:03:38 PM
Yes, nice pass by Leon

Cavs ahead of Knicks right now - but at least Mitchell didnt land with Heat.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 01, 2022, 05:11:44 PM
I'll sleep well knowing we still have ALL OUR PICKS, Four extra picks, a wild card in Cam, and some light-blue chip prospects on rookie deals.

Leon has all the clay he needs to make the trade he wants to make.

JUMP BALL!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 01, 2022, 06:05:40 PM
yep

Now he just needs to beg a team to deal with us

Had AINGE doing the begging...but we lost anyway.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 01, 2022, 06:54:16 PM
Let us see what our play looks like before we start planning the next deal.
Title: EXACTLY
Post by: chipstern on September 01, 2022, 07:20:13 PM
Quote from: Kam on September 01, 2022, 05:11:44 PM
I'll sleep well knowing we still have ALL OUR PICKS, Four extra picks, a wild card in Cam, and some light-blue chip prospects on rookie deals.

Leon has all the clay he needs to make the trade he wants to make.

JUMP BALL!

Knicks also still have RJ and Grimes and Obi and IQ.

Hell, at the risk orf reporting myself, we also have both KAM and Cam. 

We have the protected Dallas, Detroit, Washington and Miwaukee #1 picks through 2025.  We used the #1 we got from OKC [via Denver] to entice Charlotte to pick Jalen Duren for Detroit. 

We have all of our own #1 picks in 2023-24-25-26-27-28-29-30.  When in Knicks history have we had ALL OF OUR OWN #! PICKS?

Probably still some #2 picks remaining after the Detroit transactions.   

A Waiver Wire Buffet and Expiring Contract Deals often come into play in February. 

We'll be ready. 
Title: Re: EXACTLY
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 01, 2022, 08:22:53 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 01, 2022, 07:20:13 PM
Quote from: Kam on September 01, 2022, 05:11:44 PM
I'll sleep well knowing we still have ALL OUR PICKS, Four extra picks, a wild card in Cam, and some light-blue chip prospects on rookie deals.

Leon has all the clay he needs to make the trade he wants to make.

JUMP BALL!

Knicks also still have RJ and Grimes and Obi and IQ.

Hell, at the risk orf reporting myself, we also have both KAM and Cam. 

We have the protected Dallas, Detroit, Washington and Miwaukee #1 picks through 2025.  We used the #1 we got from OKC [via Denver] to entice Charlotte to pick Jalen Duren for Detroit. 

We have all of our own #1 picks in 2023-24-25-26-27-28-29-30.  When in Knicks history have we had ALL OF OUR OWN #! PICKS?

Probably still some #2 picks remaining after the Detroit transactions.   

A Waiver Wire Buffet and Expiring Contract Deals often come into play in February. 

We'll be ready.

Which of these picks likely land a great player?
Title: Meltdown
Post by: chipstern on September 01, 2022, 08:42:55 PM
Alan Hahn, of all people, having a meltdown on FACEBOOK.

"Gut punched.  Should have paid the NY tax."

Uh...no.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on September 01, 2022, 09:35:30 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on September 01, 2022, 05:03:38 PM
Yes, nice pass by Leon

Cavs ahead of Knicks right now - but at least Mitchell didnt land with Heat.

Not so fast.

We'll see about the Cavs.
Title: Re: EXACTLY
Post by: elephant on September 01, 2022, 09:48:53 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 01, 2022, 07:20:13 PM

Knicks also still have RJ and Grimes and Obi and IQ.

Hell, at the risk orf reporting myself, we also have both KAM and Cam. 


Well, at least you'll have Kam.
Title: Re: Meltdown
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 01, 2022, 11:36:20 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 01, 2022, 08:42:55 PM
Alan Hahn, of all people, having a meltdown on FACEBOOK.

"Gut punched.  Should have paid the NY tax."

Uh...no.

He's the best - and he's right
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 02, 2022, 12:15:22 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 01, 2022, 06:54:16 PM
Let us see what our play looks like before we start planning the next deal.


the next deal everyone will be discussing:

Julius Randle ----------------------------------------------> CHA
Gordon Hayward and Evan Fournier ---------------------> LAL
Russel Westbrook and two 1st round picks (from LA) --> NYK

In some variations Cam will be going to LA as well.  Or no Cam but only one pick coming to NY.

I would hope the Knicks would keep Russ in a suit all year.
Title: Re: EXACTLY
Post by: Kam on September 02, 2022, 12:18:38 AM
Quote from: elephant on September 01, 2022, 09:48:53 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 01, 2022, 07:20:13 PM

Knicks also still have RJ and Grimes and Obi and IQ.

Hell, at the risk orf reporting myself, we also have both KAM and Cam. 


Well, at least you'll have Kam.

We both have yet to reach our potential in NY.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on September 02, 2022, 12:44:32 AM
Quote from: Kam on September 02, 2022, 12:15:22 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 01, 2022, 06:54:16 PM
Let us see what our play looks like before we start planning the next deal.


the next deal everyone will be discussing:

Julius Randle ----------------------------------------------> CHA
Gordon Hayward and Evan Fournier ---------------------> LAL
Russel Westbrook and two 1st round picks (from LA) --> NYK

In some variations Cam will be going to LA as well.  Or no Cam but only one pick coming to NY.

I would hope the Knicks would keep Russ in a suit all year.

Why?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 02, 2022, 12:56:42 AM
Why would I want Russ in a suit? or Why would we make this trade?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 02, 2022, 03:15:33 AM
Why not just trade Randle for Hayward, if we are headed in that direction?

I would not be opposed.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 02, 2022, 03:28:26 AM
If we want to make life complicated and really clean up our books and still get guys who can help us now,

Randle, Fournier and one or two conditionals, depending on quality, for Hayward and Oubre. They are both useful guys, both with confidence, one with finesse and one with pop, both with short contracts.

Williams Randle Fournier Rozier LaMelo. It will be a Kiid league pass extravaganza.

We would have

Mitch Hartenstein Sims
Toppin Reddish
Hayward Grimes Oubre
RJ IQ
Brunson Rose McBride

And all our future picks plus one or two besides. It opens up a lot of room when we need to make decisions on our kids.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 02, 2022, 09:14:01 AM
Seriously, Fac - I think Thibs is viewed as a long time coach here.  Taking away his assets like Fournier and then putting the guy who comes in in street clothes doesnt jibe with this.  Even if Thibs thught we could survive the Randle-Toppin starter swap. 

You want this deal?  Then envision Russ in the backcourt causing havoc for opponents.  We could still use Grimes plenty as a 2/3 off the pine.

Thibs - 41-31
           37-45
           44 wins minimum for momentum purposes.

What you want is  to tank.  How does this fit in with even having Thibs here?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on September 02, 2022, 10:13:39 AM
Crazy to trade Randle (at least the above trade), especially after how the Mitchell thing played out. Let me count the ways.

[1] You realize we have to score points, right? Like there will be games. And we're suppose to win our share.

[2] Randle is our best player.

[3] Brunson! Julius' worse came from when he was running the team. He's no longer running the team. Let's see how the experiment pans out.

[4] The entertainment value of the "Randle Redemption Tour" should be entertaining.

[5] Even if you want to trade him, you'll never get less value than trading him now.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 02, 2022, 10:42:32 AM
Elephant - those who wish to trade Randle dont even want anything back for him
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 02, 2022, 10:50:41 AM
https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=631955414954979&set=a.282370966580094
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 02, 2022, 01:07:30 PM
Quote from: elephant on September 02, 2022, 10:13:39 AM
Crazy to trade Randle (at least the above trade), especially after how the Mitchell thing played out. Let me count the ways.

[1] You realize we have to score points, right? Like there will be games. And we're suppose to win our share.

[2] Randle is our best player.

[3] Brunson! Julius' worse came from when he was running the team. He's no longer running the team. Let's see how the experiment pans out.

[4] The entertainment value of the "Randle Redemption Tour" should be entertaining.

[5] Even if you want to trade him, you'll never get less value than trading him now.

Thank you.

That trade is beyond the pale

Agree.

Let Randle float back upstream with Brunson as his rudder.

PS: Fuck Hayward AND Oubre.  Seriously?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 02, 2022, 02:15:58 PM
Fournier is our Hayward.   We should (and might) ask him to do more.

I guess Reddish is potentially our Oubre.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 02, 2022, 03:42:40 PM
Kid does not watch basketball.

I hope Randle puts his focus on sprinting to D and nailing his rotations, while moving off the ball and setting screens on O, and having plan A and B before the catch. I hope he takes any role presented to him as an opportunity not a insult.

If this happens he could be really good for us.

If I am gameplanning against the Knicks a point of emphasis will be getting into Randles head. If that never works, Jules will put himself back on top. Once the head gets exposed, I worry about it as much as knees and feet.

Fournier is our Hubert Davis, fine for what he his. We are overpaying him and last year we overplayed him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 02, 2022, 03:59:16 PM
It would be one or two Lakers picks coming in with Randle/Fournier maybe Cam going out.


You want scoring Elephant?  We got this OBI kid....

You want to be a player in free agency? Just wait one year.

That is why.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 02, 2022, 04:00:15 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 02, 2022, 03:42:40 PM
Kid does not watch basketball.

I hope Randle puts his focus on sprinting to D and nailing his rotations, while moving off the ball and setting screens on O, and having plan A and B before the catch. I hope he takes any role presented to him as an opportunity not a insult.

If this happens he could be really good for us.

If I am gameplanning against the Knicks a point of emphasis will be getting into Randles head. If that never works, Jules will put himself back on top. Once the head gets exposed, I worry about it as much as knees and feet.

Fournier is our Hubert Davis, fine for what he his. We are overpaying him and last year we overplayed him.

You have to be a black belt optimist to this Randle will be good.

I'll have what you're smoking.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 02, 2022, 06:12:45 PM
I do not think this is going to happen. I think it is for more likely he will suck, and sulk, and still soak up minutes. He is the only guy on the roster I have those concerns about.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 02, 2022, 06:34:38 PM
I hope Randle puts his focus on sprinting to D and nailing his rotations, while moving off the ball and setting screens on O, and having plan A and B before the catch. I hope he takes any role presented to him as an opportunity not a insult.


Julius already knows his role - and yes, accepts it.

As for yor need to see JR sprint back on every possession - get a clue.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on September 02, 2022, 07:15:53 PM
Quote from: Kam on September 02, 2022, 03:59:16 PM
It would be one or two Lakers picks coming in with Randle/Fournier maybe Cam going out.


You want scoring Elephant?  We got this OBI kid....

You want to be a player in free agency? Just wait one year.

That is why.

Yeah, Obi was the strongest argument to my assertions.

As for next year's free agency....I'm skeptical.

We're always talking about next year's free agency. The shit is getting old.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 02, 2022, 07:18:08 PM
Julius has averaged 5 three point attempts per contest in 3 Knicks seasons (207 games)

Where would you like to see this number?

How about total shots (17 per)?  Should we see less for the team to be effective?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 02, 2022, 07:27:58 PM
We rocked out to the tune of a minor score in this years free agency, even considering the extension bag we gave RJ.

Jalen and Zeke are ballers we can win with.

Jules getting 14-15 shots and about 3 bookable assists either as a starter or off the bench would be ideal this year. He can do that in just below 30 minutes and stay fresh if we keep him.
Title: Eastern Conference...YIKES
Post by: chipstern on September 03, 2022, 12:23:41 AM
ATLANTIC

Boston
Brooklyn
New York
Philidelphia
Toronto

CENTRAL

Chicago
Cleveland
Detroit
Indiana
Milwaukee

SOUTHEAST

Atlanta
Charlotte
Miami
Orlando
Washington

Reality?

Yet another transitional season.

A playoff team?

The Positive Pussy in me says...NEXT QUESTION. 

A playin team?

The Positive Pussy in me says...TOUGH.

Top Tier

Milwauke
Boston
Philidelphia
Brooklyn
Miami
Atlanta
Cleveland
Toronto

Second Tier

Chicago
New York
Charlotte
Washington
Indiana
Orlando
Detroit

All of the teams in the play in tier got better, including the Knicks. 

However, we have a LONG ROAD TO HOE. 

We can be a competitive team.

Can we be a winning team?

Fuck Donovan Mitchell.  The notion that his addition, particularly at the price we'd have had to pay, would make us a playoff team is a stretch.  The Knicks have opted to remain patient with the process. 

How patient will the fans be? 

Leon has basically proferred Thibs a Fate Accompli by removing his VETERAN's FALLBACK.

Gibson, Noel, Burks, Walker.  GONE. 

Our "Veterans" are basically Derrick Rose, Evan Fournier and Julius Randle. 

Thibs HAS TO figure out a way to balance our first and second units, further develop all of the puppies we did not want to give to fucking Danny Ainge, allocate minutes in a proactive manner and NOT BURN OUT OUR STARTERS. 

Bigs: Robinson, Hartenstein, Sims, Randle, Toppin
Wings: Barrett, Reddish, Fournier, Grimes [Hunt]
Guards: Brunson, Quickley, Rose, McBride [Keels]

That's [13] + A Pair Of Two-Ways

Robinson-Randle-Barrett-Grimes-Brunson

Hartenstein/Sims-Toppin-Reddish/Fournier-Quickley/Rose/McBride

That's how it shakes out to me. 

Of course, how does it shake out to Thibs? 

He simply HAS to find minutes for Obi, Cam and IQ, let alone Rose and Fournier. 

Hopefully there is an honest competition in camp. 

It is time to reduce Julius and RJ's minutes so they have gas in the tank come the fourth quarter.  Do I have faith in Thibs to do this?

That remains to be seen.  He is a good coach, but stubborn, and with a well established track record for running his lead dogs into the ground. 

Leon's Fait Accompli to Thibs is a transitional roster, largely constituted with young, developing players. 

YEARS OF SERVICE [Puppies As KNICKS]: Robinson [4], RJ [3], Obi [2], IQ [2], Grimes [1], Sims [1], McBride [1], Reddish [1]

Randle [4], Rose [2], Fournier [1]

Even our free agent additions, are works in progress. 

Brunson, just turned 26 on August 31, and entering his fifth season. 

Hartenstein, a late bloomer, is 24, and entering his fifth season.

Thibs' challenge is to keep everyone engaged, and give everyone minutes. 

Our first and second units need to be more interchangable, and while the first team starters seem fairly obvious, Thibs has to do a much better job of expanding the rotation and KEEPING EVERYONE ENGAGED. 

I don't see Thibs' job in jeopardy, given the deck he's been dealt, but the manner in which he deploys his playing cards is up for judgement. 

There is nothing to be gained, as some douche nozzles in the blogosphere have suggested, that Thibs will be gone mid-season. 

Pointless.  What's to be gained?  Thibs is NOT a manifestly jive leader like Fizdale, Hornacek or Fisher.  Mike Miller was a good transitional figure placed in a tough position, but not a long term option. 

Fire Thibs in mid-season.  Moronic.  Revisit his status in the Spring/Summer of 2023? 

Absolutely.  He is on the clock. 

Thibs has minimally, established a culture.  And the Knicks have evolved a process, surely not quickly or dramatically enough for some.  But have been reasonable prudent and patient.  Be curious to see what deals they seek to execute moving forward. 

MOVING FORWARD?

The most critical evolutionary piece in the equation is Tom Thibodeau. 

Can this old dog learn any new tricks.  Least ways, can he evolve a more variable offense to revolve around Brunson, allowing RJ and Julius to be more efficient.  AND CAN HE EVOLVE HIS APPROACH TO PRECLUDE LEAD DOG BURN OUT AND ADVANCE THE CORE OF YOUNG TALENT Rose-Aller-Perry-Perrin WERE RETICENT TO SURRENDER IN THE PURSUIT OF THE ELUSIVE SHINY OBJECT. 
Title: Meanwhile...
Post by: chipstern on September 03, 2022, 12:40:11 AM
Gallinari has a ruptured ACL. 

Same one he injured in 2013. 

Damn shame.  Thought him and his game were a terrific match for the Celtics.  MF can't catch a break, unless it's one of his legs. 

Lonzo Ball.

Many of us were keen to sign him up in the summer of 2021.  We passed for some reason. 

Thought he was a really nice match for the Bulls. 

Alas, his recovery from a knee injury is not advancing as Chicaco would've hoped.  Not looking hopeful to be ready by opening night. 

PS: Please don't trade Cam to the Lakers, Leon. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 03, 2022, 12:45:29 AM
Celtics probably should see if Danny can part with a big. They are a little thin up front. Do they have a future to mortgage?

As for us, this roster is better built to do Thibs things, high PnR, playmaking out of short rolls, corner threes, and ceaseless energetic defense than either of the last two iterations.

Health in the conference will have a lot to do with how seeding plays out.

I hope the story on us is that we have no all stars so our early opponents get caught napping and we build a good record and confidence heading into the heart of the season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 03, 2022, 01:10:06 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 03, 2022, 12:45:29 AM
Celtics probably should see if Danny can part with a big. They are a little thin up front. Do they have a future to mortgage?

As for us, this roster is better built to do Thibs things, high PnR, playmaking out of short rolls, corner threes, and ceaseless energetic defense than either of the last two iterations.

Health in the conference will have a lot to do with how seeding plays out.

I hope the story on us is that we have no all stars so our early opponents get caught napping and we build a good record and confidence heading into the heart of the season.

Knick On Wood

I'm hoping Julius surprises us all. 

Not like he doesn't know he is ON THE CLOCK. 

That's on Thibs as well.  Figuring out how to best deploy him, accentuate his strengths, disguise his weaknesses. 

I am looking forward to the competion between Fournier, Reddish for minutes at the 3 & 2 behind RJ and Grimes.  And for how IQ and Rose [and McBride?] engage behind Brunson for second unit PG minutes.  Thibs will want to lean on Rose, but last times he did that, ended up injured.  IQ has earned a long look at PG behind Brunson.  And at SG behind Grimes, Fournier, and Reddish. 

PS: Again, I have a soft spot for Cam.  A genuine 6'8" with a big wingspan; can get to the rack, convert FTs at a 90% clip, and play D.  If he can develop consistency on his three, and change the perception that he kind of lollygags because of his talent, well, we don't have anyone on the team quite like him.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 03, 2022, 01:25:05 AM
http://www.theringer.com/nba/2022/9/2/23333992/new-york-knicks-donovan-mitchell-trade (http://www.theringer.com/nba/2022/9/2/23333992/new-york-knicks-donovan-mitchell-trade)
Title: Re: Eastern Conference...YIKES
Post by: elephant on September 03, 2022, 11:11:06 AM
Quote from: chipstern on September 03, 2022, 12:23:41 AM

Reality?

Yet another transitional season.

A playoff team?

The Positive Pussy in me says...NEXT QUESTION. 


Come on, Chip. You just wrote another loonnnng missive about your team. And still you give way to the dull careful restraint, the joyless prognostications of how everyone is just too good for the Knicks this year but we're building something and....

Fuck that.

We haven't played a fucking game. You say you're a Positive Pussy. Then be one!

The Knicks are deep! Their talent is rising! Of course they're getting into the fucking playoffs!

Now if I believe that, you damn sure should.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 03, 2022, 11:57:42 AM
You guys are trying to plug too many players into meaningful minutes.  This is another reason a Mitchell deal made sense - it would have thinned the herd.

Even with your desired cutdowns

3 players times 30 minutes   -   90
3 players at 24    -    72

Leaves just 78 minutes for the other 7 guys.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 03, 2022, 12:29:37 PM
The Knicks are deep! Their talent is rising! Of course they're getting into the fucking playoffs!


I have us potentially FIFTH in the East .
Title: Re: Eastern Conference...YIKES
Post by: chipstern on September 03, 2022, 02:21:49 PM
Quote from: elephant on September 03, 2022, 11:11:06 AM
Quote from: chipstern on September 03, 2022, 12:23:41 AM

Reality?

Yet another transitional season.

A playoff team?

The Positive Pussy in me says...NEXT QUESTION. 


Come on, Chip. You just wrote another loonnnng missive about your team. And still you give way to the dull careful restraint, the joyless prognostications of how everyone is just too good for the Knicks this year but we're building something and....

Fuck that.

We haven't played a fucking game. You say you're a Positive Pussy. Then be one!

The Knicks are deep! Their talent is rising! Of course they're getting into the fucking playoffs!

Now if I believe that, you damn sure should.

🦋🦋🐌🦋🦋
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 04, 2022, 03:00:41 AM
Boston and Chicago have become thinner through injury and should be set aside till they try to do something to address their situations.

When I look at the teams ahead of us, at no point or position do I see size or mobility on our roster causing problems in coverage. Skill maybe no, but we have the bodies to compete.

Potentially scoring can come from four spots with real good cleanup men in the pivot. Any opponent weakness can potentially be exploited by this Knicks team as currently constructed.

Who ever is the other wing guy with Brunson and Barrett, who I am confident will both be here at the start of the season, needs to be the one to cover the alpha guard on the other team. I think it will be Grimes, though Quickley and Reddish are both possibilities giving us different looks.

At the moment I would have us at sixth through tenth in the conference depending on how things break.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on September 04, 2022, 04:38:42 PM
So I am not alone in my estimation of your New York Knicks.

Chip I think it's now pretty clear that you're going to have to turn in your Positive Pussy membership card, as well as the matching coffee mug.

Hopefully you'll again come to your senses, leave behind your realm of dull lamentation, and apply again for membership. At such time however, you may have to suffer a penalty, say a tattoo of Marc Berman on your left buttocks, before readmission.
Title: Tetering Between Nothingness & Eternity
Post by: chipstern on September 04, 2022, 09:06:51 PM
Quote from: elephant on September 04, 2022, 04:38:42 PM
So I am not alone in my estimation of your New York Knicks.

Chip I think it's now pretty clear that you're going to have to turn in your Positive Pussy membership card, as well as the matching coffee mug.

Hopefully you'll again come to your senses, leave behind your realm of dull lamentation, and apply again for membership. At such time however, you may have to suffer a penalty, say a tattoo of Marc Berman on your left buttocks, before readmission.

It has been suggested that Chip AINTITASHAMAN Stern has gone over to the DARK SIDE OF THE Farce

That this Forum's most reliable POSITIVE PUSSY now embraces the despondency of a NEGATIVE NANCY. 

Worth remembering how consistently I was oppossed to any and all [well, MOST] iterations of Danny Ainge's Donovan Mitchell shake down.  Pointing out how the price would decimate us, how DM's talents notwithstanding, that I didn't see him as a good match for Brunson, least ways, that he was a ball dominant 6'1" player who wanted/needed the ball in his hand, and who did not have the size and defensive acumen/intensity of Quentin Grimes, whom Ainge plainly coveted, and whom I thought a better complimentary piece next to Brunson, even though Mitchell's offensive game is obviously far more proven and advanced.   

The package that Ainge wanted?  For Donovan Mitchell?  Mmmmmm...nah.  For Damian Lillard...okay, now you're talking.  But surely not if we give up 3-4 unprotected Knicks picks, RJ, Quentin, Obi and IQ. 

Some would suggest, not Elephant and Facil, that I have over-estimated our core of youth, let alone our front line vets, Randle, Fournier and D-Rose. 

So there's that. 

So, Elephant suggests I have gone over to THE DARK SIDE OF THE FARCE, and embraced Negative Nanciehood. 

Mmmmmm...not really. 

I don't think it is defeatist to look at what I deem the TOP TIER and the SECOND TIER and think, damn, the East is a MOTHERFUCKER. 

Top Tier

Milwauke
Boston
Philidelphia
Brooklyn
Miami
Atlanta
Cleveland
Toronto

Second Tier

Chicago
New York
Charlotte
Washington
Indiana
Orlando
Detroit

Teams 6-12 seem to be on roughly the same plane, though an argument could be made that the Hawks, Cavs and Raptors might be more talented on the front end, if not depth wise. 

Hell, even those teams on the bottom, the Pacers, Magic and Pistons, have added significant talent. 

So, ...

I believe we have the depth and talent to be in the hunt for the 6-through-10 spots PlayIn spots. 

(https://decider.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/THE-FREAK-BROTHERS-TUBI-REVIEW.jpg?quality=75&strip=all&w=680&h=356&crop=1)

HOWEVER?

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/85/The_Teachings_of_Don_Juan.jpg/220px-The_Teachings_of_Don_Juan.jpg)

While I have not fully embraced the world view of CarlosCast-a-NADA as regards the capabilities of Mike "Mister Interim" Miller and the shortcomings of Tom "Stubborn Kind Of Fellow" Thibodeau, some questions surely remain. 

HOW WILL Thibs Evolve? 

CLEARLY, Thibs has established a REAL KULTUR, which has given us divergent results in the past two years, though in all fairness, I don't believe we can ascribe too much credit or blame.  There is good luck and there is dumb luck, and We/Thibs have had their share of both. 

FOR ME, it's an open question how Thibs will respond to the arrival of Jalen Brunson and Isaiah Hartenstein, who offer a significant uptick of talent and possibilities at PG and Center he has not had in the past two seasons. 

We know about Tom's defensive focus and acumen, but Jalen and Isaiah, let alone Quentin Grimes, allow Thibs to add some new wrinkles to our offense and to create a more balanced game on both sides of the ball. 

WILL THIBS CONTINUE TO PLAY Julius & RJ 35-40 minutes a night so that they are all out of gas in the fourth quarter? 

WILL THIBS FULLY EMBRACE the youth and talent of Obi, IQ and Cam, or wll he ride his faves into dust?

WILL THIBS EVOLVE A MORE HEADY APPROACH to the deployment of JR, RJ and EF, maximizing their strengths, and minimizing, or least ways, disguising their shortcoming? 

WILL THIBS FULLY EMPOWER Jalen Brunson to make this HIS TEAM? 

Thibs is STUBBORN as a motherfucker, but he ain't STOOPID. 

Leon Rose has gotten rid of his Vets Crutch, and gifted him a beaucoup of prescient puppies and said MAKE IT WORK.  The notion that Thibs does not develop youth?  I don't think that is fair.  But he does tend to be overly reliant on certain options. 

ANYWAY....

You get the point. 

The whole trade Julius and Evan feeding frenzy?  I think it is crap. 

RJ?  Has raised his game, and has NOW been anointed as the future face of the Knicks. 

Robinson-Randle-Barrett-Grimes-Brunson has the potential to be a tough starting five, BUT IT IS ON THIBS TO DEVELOP THEIR CHEMISTRY AND NOT SIMPLY SHOEHORN THEM INTO A RIGID CONCEPT, but create a more organic, fluid, MODERN approach, and to NOT HAVE THE PUPPIES LOOKING OVER THEIR SHOULDERS WAITING FOR THE HOOK. 

We have talent.  We have depth.  And yet we are all holding our breath, waiting to see how Tom Thibodeau adapts to his primary colors and his new hues on the canvas that is the 2022-23 Knicks. 

(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/83/00/11/830011dfc24cea8651924492c5c2b2a6--roaches-chips.jpg)   

I'll Be WATCHING. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 04, 2022, 09:23:23 PM
Two things, it is one thing to be either a new rook, new young player, or new vet to Thibs. Of the three the new vet will have a shortcut to minutes. We saw it with Evan and we will see it with Brunson this season and probably Hartenstein as well.

Our kids have now been on the Thibs squad for a full season and have seen the floor, winning and losing, against what the league has to offer. I expect that if they out perform a vet they will move ahead this season. This does not apply to two-way guys, but yes to the rest. Thibs knows he can coach them and none flopped like Kevin Knox. It is on the kids to stay sharp, stay healthy, and impress.

Boston lost Gallo and has two bigs on its roster.

Chicago lost Lonzo and has yet to see how Caruso has recovered.

Charlotte rescinded it
Title: Responding Chips transcendent question
Post by: carlos123 on September 04, 2022, 09:40:16 PM
the world view of CarlosCast-a-NADA...

Q: HOW WILL Thibs Evolve?

A: HE WILL NOT.

That being said, I firmly support elephants suggested penalty of a tattoo of Marc Berman on your Chips buttocks, before being reinstated as the President of the Positive Pussies Club.
Title: Handicapping
Post by: chipstern on September 04, 2022, 10:25:27 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 04, 2022, 09:23:23 PM
Two things, it is one thing to be either a new rook, new young player, or new vet to Thibs. Of the three the new vet will have a shortcut to minutes. We saw it with Evan and we will see it with Brunson this season and probably Hartenstein as well.

Our kids have now been on the Thibs squad for a full season and have seen the floor, winning and losing, against what the league has to offer. I expect that if they out perform a vet they will move ahead this season. This does not apply to two-way guys, but yes to the rest. Thibs knows he can coach them and none flopped like Kevin Knox. It is on the kids to stay sharp, stay healthy, and impress.

Boston lost Gallo and has two bigs on its roster.

Chicago lost Lonzo and has yet to see how Caruso has recovered.

Charlotte rescinded it

Boston still has a tough, battle tested roster.  Poor Gallo.  I thought he was a really good fit.  Brogdan could be a big plus, if healthy.  Robert Williams will be healthy and he is a bad dude. 

In our relative bracket?

Bulls?  Ball and Caruso?  Big loss.  But Goran Dragic ain't chopped liver.  I probably like Coby White more than Bulls fans...more a scorer than a rudder, but he can run a team.  I remember one game where he sure cleaned our clock.  Andre Drummond a good pickup, and they are getting back their PF Puppy, Patrick Williams.  And Dosunmu has the makings of a first rate SG. 

Wizards?  Don't sleep on Washington.  A lot of ifs, but some pretty tantalizing ifs, including our own Taj Gibson.  The RETURN of Bradley Beal?  Huge.  Porzingis, Kam's fave.  He's been playing well in Europe.  If healthy, well...and playing next to Kuzma?  Gafford a real rim protector at center.  Will Barton a good vet addition, Johnny Davis a potentially impactful rook.  How will THEIR puppies evolve?  Hachimura, Kispert, Avdija all have huge upside. 

Raptors? Van Vleet and Trent.  Scottie Barnes.  Siakim, Anunoby, Achiuwa.  Thad Young and Otto Porter good vet additions.  Knicks are deeper, but Raptors lead dogs are really talented and athletic. 

Charlotte?  Ball the Lead Dog, and a great one, with Rozier making for a talented back court.  McDaniels and Washington are tough bigs, and rookie Mark Williams should solidify the center rotation with vet Plumlee.  Hornets puppies are kinda iffy, and an unknown factor.  Hayward is a big time player, alas, a part time one, and Miles Bridges was primed to get a big deal and compete for AllPro status, but well, he's a fuckup.   

Cleveland and Atlanta.  An argument can be made that they are more talented, and Jalen Brunson will have his hands full with Garland and Young [and, it is reasoable to expect, vicea versa].  Obviously, Donovan Mitchell and Dejounte Murray are HUGE Additions to both back courts.  Allen-Mobley-Okoro and Capella-Collins-Hunter make for tough athletic talentged front lines.   Both teams have added some depth. 

So depending on how we coohere, our puppies evolve, Brunson impacts the first team, and Randle and Fournier bounce back, we can certainly compete nose to nose more or less with Atlanta, Cleveland, Toronto, Chicago, Charlotte and Washington. 

Milwaukee, Boston, Philly, Brooklyn, Miami. 

All present a more daunting challenge, and level of top tier talent, although we played them all tough last season, before our ThibsMyLegsHaveTurnedToDough fourth quarter fades.  The Second Unit's Heroic comeback against the Heat was a highlight of our post AllStar break emergence. 

If we remain healthy and continue to evolve, we can compete. 

So, 6-10, yeah, we have a shot, but 1-5?  That's a horse of a different fire department.  Check back in with me on XMAS Day. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 05, 2022, 12:07:02 AM
Robert Williams is starting healthy. He tends to miss time though, and Al is one year older. If one goes down, Grant Williams is the next big up I think unless Vonleh makes their team and Brings Boston a Chip.

Brooklyn is like a home brewed pulse jet motorcycle. It may be awesome or it may go boom, but it will be loud.

Milwaukee, Philly, Cleveland, Miami, and Atlanta should all be better on paper and predicted to amass more wins.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 05, 2022, 12:56:35 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 05, 2022, 12:07:02 AM
Robert Williams is starting healthy. He tends to miss time though, and Al is one year older. If one goes down, Grant Williams is the next big up I think unless Vonleh makes their team and Brings Boston a Chip.

Brooklyn is like a home brewed pulse jet motorcycle. It may be awesome or it may go boom, but it will be loud.

Milwaukee, Philly, Cleveland, Miami, and Atlanta should all be better on paper and predicted to amass more wins.

You're dead on about The Nyets. 

Could be chicken salad

Could be chicken shit

Health an issue. 

Ben Simmons. Joe Harris.  TJ Warren. 

For starters. 

And as great as Kevin and Kyrie can be?  Top tier scorers and 90+% FT shooters. 

When KD was healthy last season, he was basically good for 30-7-7 a night. 

Having said that, he played in 55 games...35 the year before.

Ditto Kyrie roughly on the order of 27-5-6. 

A COVID shortened 29 games. 

However in 2019-20, only 20 games, and 2020-21, with the bubble, 54. 

In 11 seasons, he has ONLY played 70+games three times. 

KI turned 30 in March, while KD is closing in on 34. 

Simmons played 81 and 79 games his first two seasons, got his Max, and played 57 and 58 the next two. 

KD, KI and BS [hmmm, B-S, how fitting is THAT] could be a juggernaut or a leaky life raft, taking on water. 

Curry, Mills, Claxton, Sharpe, Thomas, O'Neal, Warren, Harris, nice depth and skill set...IF HEALTHY, and playing 60-70 plus games with KD, KI and BS. 

I'd watch PHILLY.  PJ Tucker a terrific pickup, and I anticipate Harden being hyper-motivated.  IQ should only evolve along the lines of Maxey, Harris is overpaid but a skilled big, a healthy Embid is a load.  Thybuille, Milton, Korkmaz MELTON, serious back court depth.  All healthy?  A force.  Embid or Harden or Harris go down.  TROUBLE. 

That leaves, what Miami and Milwaukee. 

Miami?

Butler tends to get nicked up, and turns 33 in two weeks.  Ditto Lowry, who is 36.  Riley has a host of young, motivated no names, the impregnable Bam Adaboyo, Oladipo, Hero, Robinson, and a promising rookie in Nikola Jovic. 

Milwaukee, health willing. seems impregnable.  They missed Middleton in the playoffs.  Giannis, Middleton, Lopez, Portis, Holiday, Connaughton, Hill, Ibaka, Matthews, Nwora.

GIANNIS!  Gilbert Arenas is an asshole.  Gianis turns 28 in December, basically good for 30-11-10 a night, got to the FT line a prodigious 766 times, and converted 553, for a more than respectable .722%.  Best player in the Easter Conference and getting better every year.
Title: PS > Piss Off
Post by: chipstern on September 05, 2022, 01:21:12 AM
Julius struggled last season, his 3-point shooting was dismal on close to 400 attempts [.308%] and 2-point shooting efficiency dipped by 50 points [.458%], summing out to .411%, while his defense left something to be desired. 

Still, as has oft been stated, was still a 20-10-5 man, and drained 303-401 FTs for a respectable .756%, and has been on the whole, quite durable over 35 plus minutes in 71 and 72 games the past two seasons.   

The next person who with a straight face, on this forum or in the blogosphere, comes to the conclusion that we should trade the soon to be 28 year old Julius Randle for the earthly remains of Gordon Hayward, I will urinate on their shoes, pausing only to piss on their pinyata. 

In his three seasons with Boston he played, 1, 72 and 52 games. 

In three seasons for Chalotte, he's basically been good for roughly 32 minutes a night, and played well when healthy [excellent 3-point shooter and FT shooter, although in two seasons his total FT attempts were 334, while Julius went to the line 830 times the past two seasons. 

NOT TO MENTION THAT in his first two seaons as a HORNET, he only played in 44 and 49 games, so he is Missing In Action roughly half the time. 

So, for the last time...FUCK GORDON HAYWARD and his 30-31 million over the next two seasons [Julius is due 23-25].  Not to mention, we should trade Randle for Hayward so he can take minutes away from Obi as an undersized PF, and from RJ and Cam as a gimpy wing who turns 33 in October? 

BRILLIANT NOTION. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 05, 2022, 03:20:01 AM
So he can spell and instruct the aforementioned young players who we would like doing more of the things Hayward does when healthy though with more pop than we want them taking cues from or losing minutes for Obi and possibly Cam to Jules. Also Gordy will be an ending contract the year after this, the kind you move with extra draft picks and some promising young talent about to be rendered redundant for a guy who fits what you are doing and elevates those around him. This is two years ahead of the Randle timetable, even more if Oubre and Fournier become part of the deal. We may hang around, give the kids some burn letting chips fall where they may with an eye on fishing in free agency perhaps even setting markers on other teams RFAs.

Hayward is like a frontcourt Rose at this point in his career, a great player to have if you only never feel you have to give him big minutes. We have a roster where that can work out.

Minus Julius, you can spell Obi with Sims if Hartenstein is in at center. 
Title: Prostate of the Nation
Post by: chipstern on September 05, 2022, 02:11:46 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 05, 2022, 03:20:01 AM
So he can spell and instruct the aforementioned young players who we would like doing more of the things Hayward does when healthy though with more pop than we want them taking cues from or losing minutes for Obi and possibly Cam to Jules. Also Gordy will be an ending contract the year after this, the kind you move with extra draft picks and some promising young talent about to be rendered redundant for a guy who fits what you are doing and elevates those around him. This is two years ahead of the Randle timetable, even more if Oubre and Fournier become part of the deal. We may hang around, give the kids some burn letting chips fall where they may with an eye on fishing in free agency perhaps even setting markers on other teams RFAs.

Hayward is like a frontcourt Rose at this point in his career, a great player to have if you only never feel you have to give him big minutes. We have a roster where that can work out.

Minus Julius, you can spell Obi with Sims if Hartenstein is in at center.

(https://www.quickfixsynthetic.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/urineluck-agent.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 05, 2022, 04:37:52 PM
So I take it you agree. Glad to see you have come around, Chip.

I do not think it is happening. I expect Julius will be with us when we start the season. Hopefully Brunson can both unlock him and curb his worst impulses.
Title: Au Contraire
Post by: chipstern on September 05, 2022, 05:36:05 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 05, 2022, 04:37:52 PM
So I take it you agree. Glad to see you have come around, Chip.

I do not think it is happening. I expect Julius will be with us when we start the season. Hopefully Brunson can both unlock him and curb his worst impulses.

Uh...no...I love your perspective, but I grow weary of all of these OPENS UP CAP SPACE PHANTASIAS.  And Hayward?  Oubre?  In place of Julius?  Evan?  Not doing the Hornets any favors.  No thanks. 

Given my druthers, and I like Fournier, I would like to see Leon explore moving him to open up time for Grimes, Reddish and IQ. 

Julius?

Needs to improve his offensive efficiency and defense, make more decisive decisions with the ball. Way less pounding the rock, more motion and movement off the ball. 

Could say the same about R.J. for that matter. 

Clearly, JR is on the clock.  He needs to get his mojo back, evolve his team game. 

To the degree that Jalen Brunson can function as Thibs' coach on the floor, we might see a significant boiunce back from JR, and big steps forward for RJ, Grimes and Mitchell. 

To the degree that Jalen Brunson bonds with Thibs, we might see a significant offensive evolution. 

PS: Been suggested that Ainge did not negotiate in good faith, and did not want to see Mitchell on the Knicks.  Interesting. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 05, 2022, 06:41:54 PM
I am still trying to figure out witch of Mitchell and Garland will check Middleton, Lavine, Cade, Harden, or Brown. It probably will not be much of a problem.

If Brunsoncan get Jules to play toward team needs we will be pretty good. If Jules can get Jules to play that way, same thing. It is a outcome few expect to work out.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 05, 2022, 09:04:34 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 05, 2022, 06:41:54 PM
I am still trying to figure out witch of Mitchell and Garland will check Middleton, Lavine, Cade, Harden, or Brown. It probably will not be much of a problem.

If Brunsoncan get Jules to play toward team needs we will be pretty good. If Jules can get Jules to play that way, same thing. It is a outcome few expect to work out.

So now who's a Negative Nancy? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 05, 2022, 09:20:41 PM
I think we are a strong team with a highly talented, highly paid time bomb on the squad.

Is it something we can make work?

Is it something we need to address?
Title: The Big Question
Post by: chipstern on September 05, 2022, 11:50:05 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 05, 2022, 09:20:41 PM
I think we are a strong team with a highly talented, highly paid time bomb on the squad.

Is it something we can make work?

Is it something we need to address?

The Knicks have a BIG THREE

RJ
Jalen
Julius

And a lot of talented complementary pieces, looking to step up to the next level, individually, and collectively. 

However, it is not enough to BE the best player, you have to CARRY yourself like a LEADER. 

And this being NEW YORK, you have to be PERCEIVED to BE a LEADER. 

I think questions about Julius are legit. 

We know he WANTS to be a Knick.  He gave the team a hometown price on his extension. 

A TICKING TIME BOMB?

While there are questions and concerns JR must address moving forward, I think that for the fans to write him off as a ticking time bomb is...hysterical. 

Certainly, while he ALWAYS competed last season, we know that Julius has a tendency to get in his own head and over think things, and his response to adversity, and frustration WITH HIMSELF and HIS PERFORMANCE, manifefsted itself in PROJECTIONS that...

Well, let's put it this way. 

PROJECTIONS....

(https://newyorkjazzworkshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Lester-Young-e1384371635476.jpg)

The great Count Basie tenor saxophone innovator LESTER YOUNG, was once talking to a friend about a mutual aquaintance who was going through some frustrating changes. 

"You'll be with a cat who's cursing you out, and you think it has something to do with you, but he's actually calling himself a motherfucker, and you just happen to be in the same room."

Julius' "responses" came out bASSackWARDS.  He was cussing himself out, and it came out WRONG. 

Look, Julius is not a useless sack of shit like Joakim Noah, who basically laid down after getting a big contract from Phool Jagoff, not in shape, no dedication to the team.  He bagged it, and seemingly didn't give a fuck.

JULIUS GIVES TOO MANY FUCKS.   

Hey, look at the difference a season or two, hell a summer can make in terms of giving someone perspective. 

Derrick Rose was kind of a moody, petulant dick his first season as a Knick under Phool & Company.  He wasn't a ticking time bomb, but he was kind of in his own private Idaho on his first MSG go round. 

LOOK HOW HE RESPONDED WHEN HE CAME BACK FOR ANOTHER TRY.  A WHOLE DIFFERENT ATTITUDE. 

Last season Julius was tasked with a burden he was not up to, and he often faltered.  Not every game, but he lacked consistency and seemingly focus. 

Some of that is on him.  Some of that is on Thibs.  Some of that is on Leon and management.  Not having a point guard just exploded in our faces. 

DOES IT NEED TO ADDRESSED? 

How.  By a public shaming.  By shipping him out of town on a Chinese Garbage Trawler in giveaway deals for pennies on the dollar?  In the name of cap space, getting back bupkus in return. 

Julius has a nice contract. He made a commitment to the Knicks, and they in turn made one back to him.

No one ever accused him of not putting the work in. 

Julius is not a problem that needs to addressed. 

He is a talented player who NEEDED HELP and was tasked with too much responsibility.  Exchanging Payton and Bullock for Walker and Fournier was glitchy.  Losing THEO PINSON, of all people, had a weird ripple effect in the locker room, the practice facility and on the floor.  You can see what his presence did for the Mavs.

We cashiered our vets Walker, Burks, Noel and Gibson for cap space and to open up space for our puppies to grow. 

Obviously Taj was not a problem, Burks was a gamer and Noel was gimpy.  Obviously Walker was a disaster AND WE DEALT WITH IT. 

Getting Brunson and Hartenstein addressed some serious roster issues. 

HOW WILL JULIUS DEAL WITH IT, seems to be your overriding concern. 

PS: Well, RJ is now THE MAN, JB is the rudder and floor general, and JR is the bell cow.  How will they cohere?
Look, I've pointed his out before, but it bears repeating.  The very minute the season ended, Obi reached out to JR in a very solicitous manner, and spoke of working out with him, and the potential of them being on the floor together in 2022-23.  To me, that is significant.  Obi did not view JR as a roadblock, and impediment, but as a BROTHER.  They are putting in time and WORK individually and as team mates.  I was encouraged to see Jalen, Obi and JR team up this summer for a playground tournament game.  Building trust.  Building chemistry. 

If something is GOING TO BE DEALT with, dumping someone for pennies on the dollar in some putative adition by subtraction scenarios is supercillious to me.  What might make sense on paper, is going to disrupt chemistry in the gym.  Mitchell, Julius, JR, Obi, IQ, Grimes, McBride, Cam, Evan and Jericho have bonds of experience they shared, collective ups and down, winning and losing, baby steps and giant steps THEY SHARED last season, and you don't tear that asunder, change for change's sake. 

You saw that the Knicks were willing to approach and explore deals, hell, Mitchell and RJ were both in play at differnt points in the Donovan Mitchell Dance, but ultimately the Knicks proved unwilling to strip mine their roster, change for change's sake. 

If you are going to ponder offloading anyone, makes sense to BUILD UP THEIR VALUE for any plausible transactions, let them revisit the bonds of last season on the practice court, competing and building skill and collective trust in preseason. 

Hey, we were apparently willing to include RJ, our lead dawg, in a trade, so no one is untouchable.  Including JR. 

To me he has earned the right to prove his Knickdom, and reboot his game with a young squad an ascendant pup in RJ and a tough, scrappy little bulldog of a new PG, and if "the fans" are crying OFF WITH HIS HEAD, well, you already know what I think of THAT. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 06, 2022, 01:36:10 AM
If we are locked in to RJ Jalen and Julius, which we probably are, I want to put them with Hartenstein and Grimes to add floor spacing, a little playmaking, and defensive acumen to a group that is physically solid but plodding by the NBA standards of today. I can see that becoming the closing unit even if the group never starts.

To be honest I like every unit a little better with Obi than with Julius.

These are good problems for a team to have so long as everyone can keep their heads as their minutes fluctuate.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 06, 2022, 11:00:39 AM
Minutes watch on Obi is 22.  On Grimes is 20.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 06, 2022, 12:34:05 PM
With all due respect, we have a small three.  Not a BIG three.

RJ - still unproven
JB - small sample size
JR - one good year

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 06, 2022, 01:03:13 PM
Quote from: Kam on September 06, 2022, 12:34:05 PM
With all due respect, we have a small three.  Not a BIG three.

RJ - still unproven
JB - small sample size
JR - one good year

No love for Kam Reddish?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 06, 2022, 03:48:36 PM
JR - one good year



Come onnnn, man.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 06, 2022, 03:54:33 PM
Of Julius's top 4 PER seasons 2 of them were with NYK.


Th 3rd - and the 4th highest
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 06, 2022, 03:58:38 PM
Meanwhile MITCHELL ROBINSON is truly underrated.
Title: Julius
Post by: chipstern on September 06, 2022, 06:40:06 PM
A team sport last time I checked.

Julius not operating in a vacuum.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on September 06, 2022, 07:43:11 PM
Chip wtf are you talking about? That storming, sulking piece of lard showed he could give a rats ass about the team or his teammates. Help Obi up? F' that. I'm too busy not playing d, zoning out on the perimeter on any play I'm not the man or flipping off the fans, lol...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 06, 2022, 07:44:13 PM
If Jules ever gets over the Atlanta series, he will be fine.

It is not a question of whether Jules can play a major and positive role. The questions are can the staff figure out the shape of that role and will he accept and follow the obligations and limitations of such a role if it is presented.
Title: Re: The Big Question
Post by: elephant on September 06, 2022, 09:41:25 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 05, 2022, 11:50:05 PM

......

Well, RJ is now THE MAN, JB is the rudder and floor general, and JR is the bell cow.  How will they cohere?


***

Hey, we were apparently willing to include RJ, our lead dawg, in a trade,

***

To me he has earned the right to prove his Knickdom, and reboot his game with a young squad an ascendant pup in RJ and....


So like, who is this RJ guy again? Is he THE MAN and the "lead dawg"...

....or is he an "ascendant pup?"

Naw, he can't be both.

Not sure why you keep getting carried away with the dream of RJ, but he has NOT yet shown that he is the MAN. Like I said the other day, that's something not given to you; you gotta earn it.

(If he were already the Knick's "Man," I don't think he would have been pedaled to the Jazz along with bagfuls of treasure for Donovan Mitchell.)

But let's hope we see that shit.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 06, 2022, 10:04:39 PM
I think there is something to be said for the ensemble approach where there is no clear designated man.

Jules tried and it worked to an extent.

I think if there is someone who I would both predict rises to that role and who I would trust to hold it, he would be Brunson, followed closely by Rose.

Brunson is an unshakable technician and has been rallying squads his whole career.

RJ and Jules need to put themselves in positions do the things they do well. They need to follow the lead of Brunson so we can win effectively and efficiently. Leave the game expansion to the Kids without nine figure contracts.

Fournier is all league anywhere he can hide in a zone. I think he will be a good bench piece.
Title: Poetic License
Post by: carlos123 on September 06, 2022, 10:43:14 PM
Quote from: elephant on September 06, 2022, 09:41:25 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 05, 2022, 11:50:05 PM
......

Well, RJ is now THE MAN, JB is the rudder and floor general, and JR is the bell cow.  How will they cohere?

***

Hey, we were apparently willing to include RJ, our lead dawg, in a trade,

***

To me he has earned the right to prove his Knickdom, and reboot his game with a young squad an ascendant pup in RJ and....


So like, who is this RJ guy again? Is he THE MAN and the "lead dawg"...

....or is he an "ascendant pup?"

Naw, he can't be both.


I think Chip has been reinstated as que King of Positive Pussies.

He is entitled to his Poetic License.

Dont know if he was submitted to the tattoo that you suggested prior to readmission.
Title: W-O-O-F
Post by: chipstern on September 07, 2022, 09:31:39 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on September 06, 2022, 07:43:11 PM
Chip wtf are you talking about? That storming, sulking piece of lard showed he could give a rats ass about the team or his teammates. Help Obi up? F' that. I'm too busy not playing d, zoning out on the perimeter on any play I'm not the man or flipping off the fans, lol...

(https://c.tenor.com/ked1SmHBwaUAAAAM/baddog.gif)

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/MajorLoathsomeGrison-max-1mb.gif)

(https://c.tenor.com/cA2WlHCPtHgAAAAM/funny-fart.gif)

(https://media1.giphy.com/media/3owvKlgMDQgLQYRXnG/200w.gif?cid=82a1493bibsj7dzbi2v0lvpdj7p95lquifm5508vuyz9hfd9&rid=200w.gif&ct=g)
Title: Why Randle Must Go - by Knicks Film School
Post by: Kam on September 07, 2022, 11:13:54 AM
(https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/w_1456,c_limit,f_webp,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fbucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-437e-9518-adb32be77984.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb86b51e6-5a37-454b-a11e-842bd1dbc317_967x487.png)

1. There is no room for his usage or play style
2. The team is better without him
3. The opportunity cost of seeing if he can recap his value isn't worth the risk
4. Things could get ugly if Randle stays
5. We need to see what the kids - especially Obi - can do.
Title: 1. Usage Rate
Post by: Kam on September 07, 2022, 11:18:43 AM
1. There is no room for his usage or play style

Even without Donovan Mitchell, the reality of the sport of basketball - that there's only one ball - remains the most glaring issue on New York's hands.

I've already done deep dives on the usage conundrum for the Knicks, first back in April and then early in July. Without rehashing every detail of those analyses, the major takeaways were as follows:

Absent extenuating circumstances, the player with the third highest usage on an NBA team has a usage rate hovering somewhere between 21 and 23. Julius Randle's usage in New York has never been below 27.

Successful high usage trios have, at the very least, ample shooting, and especially efficient scoring from the big man. Randle's shooting regression needs no further exploration, but beyond that, he has never been a willing screen and roll big, and isn't very efficient when he does.

In games that Randle took a backseat to Kemba Walker last season, he struggled even more than normal, which is saying something. We saw similar results in games RJ took the lead as well.

While both have shown evidence to varying degrees that they can be successful 3-point shooters, both RJ Barrett and Jalen Brunson prefer to operate inside the arc. The Knicks are also set on playing a traditional five. A basketball court is only 50 feet wide.

We've heard a lot about how Julius will thrive playing alongside better talent, like during his year in New Orleans when he played just over 30 minutes a night and sported a usage rate topping 27. However according to Cleaning the Glass, 70 percent of his minutes there came at center, and he played almost exclusively with Anthony Davis or a true stretch big. That is in no way comparable to the case here.

Given all of the above, there is really only one world where it makes sense for Randle to remain on this team and I'm not sure how deep into the multiverse we have to travel before we find it. He'd need to embrace a Draymond Green-ish role, with constant motion and well-timed screening and re-screening. He'd also have to be comfortable spending a high number of possessions camped in the corner, because unlike Draymond, he doesn't have anywhere near the smarts or savvy to play the point forward on every or even most possessions. His version of that - to grind the offense to a halt - is no longer an option with Brunson here and Barrett extended. They must operate with the ball in their hands more than him for a plethora of reasons I don't need to explain here.

Finally: if such a Bizarro-world version of Randle did exist, is that version of Randle worth the $26.5 million in guaranteed annual money he's owed over the next four seasons?

Title: 2. Better without
Post by: Kam on September 07, 2022, 11:23:40 AM
2. The team is better without him

Let's put aside the fact that according to Cleaning the Glass, Obi Toppin had the 20th highest on/off differential among 255 players to see at least 1000 minutes of court time last season, whereas Julius Randle had the 6th lowest among that same group. To some, that stat by itself is enough justification for trying everything possible to move off of Randle and insert Obi Toppin into the starting five.

But on/off differential isn't everything. If it was, Isaiah Hartenstein would have gotten the max instead of a two-year, $15 million deal. What's undeniable, however, is that other than a half-season stretch playing in front of empty gyms, New York's offense has consistently been better with Randle off the floor:

2019-20 season: New York had a higher offensive rating (107.1) with Randle on the floor than off (105.3), but those numbers are a bit deceiving. For one, the Knicks bench was dreadful that season. More importantly, according to Cleaning the Glass, when Julius played without Marcus Morris, the Knicks scored just 105.7 points per 100 possessions, whereas Morris lineups without Randle scored 110.4 per 100. Randle's on-court offensive rating would have ranked in between the 29th ranked Bulls and the 30th ranked Warriors.

2020-21 season: Julius started the season off on the tear of all tears, with a 53.7 effective field goal percentage before the All-Star break, spurred largely by some ridiculous shooting on long twos. They needed every bit of that productivity, as New York scored just 101.9 points per 100 without Randle on the floor. At the same time, the on-court offensive rating of 109.4 with Julius shooting flames out of his butt was still a bottom-ten number. After the break, Randle's eFG% dropped to 49.7. Not coincidentally, the Knicks offensive rating increased from 110.7 when he played - still bottom 10! - to 113.5 when he sat.

2021-22 season: The Knicks offense plummeted to 108.0 points per 100 possessions when Randle was on the court, a number that would have slotted them between the 26th ranked Rockets and the 27th ranked Blazers. With Julius off the court, the number increased to 110.5.

I'm only citing offensive numbers here a) because that is supposed to be his strong suit and b) because anyone with working eyes doesn't need data to support their critique of Randle on the defensive end. When he tries, he is more than passable and occasionally downright effective. When he doesn't, it is a team-wide soul-suck that would make Shang Tsung blush. That brings us to ...
Title: Re: Why Randle Must Go - by Knicks Film School
Post by: elephant on September 07, 2022, 11:28:41 AM
Quote from: Kam on September 07, 2022, 11:13:54 AM
(https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/w_1456,c_limit,f_webp,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fbucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-437e-9518-adb32be77984.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fb86b51e6-5a37-454b-a11e-842bd1dbc317_967x487.png)

1. There is no room for his usage or play style
2. The team is better without him
3. The opportunity cost of seeing if he can recap his value isn't worth the risk
4. Things could get ugly if Randle stays
5. We need to see what the kids - especially Obi - can do.

All this is familiar stuff.

And pointless. Does anyone really think the Knicks were not trying to trade Julius?

Randle has elite skill and power, but also some weaknesses that we all know. The idea is that Brunson's play can change and elevate Randle's game.

I think that's an intriguing prospect and would like to see it played out.

Edit Note. I wrote this response before I saw your long thoughtful takes.
Title: 3. Too risky to keep
Post by: Kam on September 07, 2022, 11:29:52 AM
3. The opportunity cost of seeing if he can recap his value isn't worth the risk

Maybe all the above numbers aren't the be all, end all. Maybe, against all basketball logic and common sense, the stars will align and Randle will find success as one third of triumvirate with RJ and Brunson. Maybe his jumper comes back around. Maybe he took all the barbs and arrows from assholes like me personally, and boy oh boy, is he going to show us.

If all that happens, then what? Would the Knicks:

-be a contender? Hell to the no.

-be closer to contention? Nope, try again!

-be on a path to someday contending with Randle as a core piece? Unless he completely and totally changes what type of player he is, and what he's willing and able to do when he doesn't have the ball, then no.

The Finals between Golden State and Boston were the latest reminder of where basketball is and where it's going. Randle, a player whose most effective half season came by playing a style that doesn't fit with the pace & space of the modern game. That's why, of all the comps we threw around during his All-NBA campaign, we missed the most obvious one: the post-KD but still in his prime version of Russell Westbrook. That version of Russ was perfect if you wanted to win a bunch of regular season games, but was largely neutered in the playoffs. The Hawks really brought this comp home last May.

Finally, if Randle started hot, would the Knicks...

-have an easier time trading him?

This, more than anything, is the reason I've heard argued most for keeping him into the year. I've even argued it myself at times. Theoretically, if he looked good to start the season, his value would go up, and he would be easier to trade.

But how much would his value really go up? Is a team giving up a high ceiling young player to get him? Fat chance. Is a quasi-contender giving up a juicy future unprotected first? Never say never, but I don't see it. More than likely, someone takes a chance on him as a neutral asset, and is willing to give the Knicks their meh contract or contracts to do a swap. And that's the best case scenario.

Is that possibility valuable and/or likely enough to bypass whatever it would take to unload him right now? If we assume New York can unload his money by giving some team one or two of their protected first rounders, would that really be too high a cost? That gets us to...

Title: Re: Why Randle Must Go - by Knicks Film School
Post by: Kam on September 07, 2022, 11:31:44 AM
Quote from: elephant on September 07, 2022, 11:28:41 AM
The idea is that Brunson's play can change and elevate Randle's game.

I think that's an intriguing prospect and would like to see it played out.

See above..  Juice may not be worth the squeeze even if all the IFs work out.

All credit to Jonathan Macri
Title: 4. Things could get ugly if Randle stays
Post by: Kam on September 07, 2022, 11:34:20 AM
4. The ugly factor

I give it, oh, I don't know... six minutes and three missed long twos before the boos start reigning down as Randle goes into his jab-jab-fake-jab-dribble-dribble-fake-shoot routine. And with it, the chants of O-Bi Top-pin! will start at the next stoppage in play.

Not in Game 10. Not in Game 5.

Game One.

Well, Game Two, as the Knicks start the season on the road in Memphis. Either way, it won't take long. And if they start losing amidst his struggles, what then? Every team in the league will know that New York's front office is desperate to save itself from the mess they've made, especially after the failed Mitchell pursuit. Firing Thibodeau will get them a temporary reprieve, but that won't last unless his replacement leans into the kids... and thus, further away from Julius. Reducing Randle's minutes at that point would solidify him as the worst contract in basketball, and thus, the toughest to move.

It doesn't have to be this way, of course, which takes us to...
Title: 5. We need to see what the kids - especially Obi - can do.
Post by: Kam on September 07, 2022, 11:36:58 AM
5. We need to see what the kids - especially Obi - can do.

Right now, even after the Mitchell saga, there is a lot to feel good about with this team. Whether the front office is truly behind him or not, every fan is excited for RJ Barrett to solidify himself as the face of the franchise. Brunson is immediately going to be a hit. I am already trying to trademark I ❤️ Hartenstein. And the kids, well... the kids have a slightly higher Q rating than the Beatles walking off Ed Sullivan's stage in 1964.

And Obi Toppin is Paul McCartney.

When I had Zach Lowe on the pod a few months ago, I asked him what his 'biggest thing' was for the Knicks this season (yes, I left it intentionally vague so he could take it any way he wanted to). His answer was that New York needed to see what it had in RJ Barrett and Obi Toppin. As in, we've already seen enough to be very intrigued, but now we have to see more.

I don't know what Obi can do with a starting role. Neither do you. Nobody does. But if there's a player on the Knicks who stands to benefit the most from playing with a guard like Jalen Brunson, it is Toppin. Obi's frenetic energy will finally be rewarded by a guard who has gone from first round afterthought to one hundred million dollar man in large part because he exploits every crevice of weakness a defense gives him. Toppin has been yearning to play with a guard like Brunson. They deserve each other.
Title: One last thing
Post by: Kam on September 07, 2022, 11:48:48 AM
And it's not just Obi either. Removing Randle's sky-high usage from the team would likely open additional opportunities for other young players as well. I could even see a world where New York's starters - gasp - play with elevated pace, thus reducing the starters' minutes and giving more time to someone like Immanuel Quickley.

(And yes, to everyone who says they need to move Rose just as urgently so IQ will get more minutes on the ball, you are 1000% right. But that doesn't need to be done now. Rose is the anti-Randle in just about every way, from off-court leader to someone who doesn't need the ball to be effective when he plays. Keeping him for 30 or 40 games with built in rest on back-to-backs is not the end of the world. Some contender will come calling before the deadline with a first rounder, presuming Rose stays healthy. And if he doesn't stay healthy, a) it's not like his value will have gone down that much, because I don't see anyone offering a first for him right now, and b) IQ will have gotten to play a lot anyway. Still, should Rose ideally be elsewhere? Yes.)

The best part: if they move Randle, the fan base will grant the team bucketfulls of goodwill. If the kids are playing major minutes and wins are hard to come by, it will be seen as a worthwhile trade-off, at least for this season. It will also be viewed as an olive branch if the team is unable to move Fournier and/or Rose at the moment: Don't worry, we know what you want, and we want it to. We're going to get all the way there, we just need some more time. Derrick Rose and Evan Fournier will only help make life easier for everyone they play with, and their respective values should only go up as time passes. That is simply not the case with Julius.

Right now, I believe there is a morbid curiosity about Randle throughout the league. No one wants him, but his All-NBA season is still fresh enough that someone should be amenable to taking a flier, especially if a pick comes with him. If the season starts and he again stinks up the joint? I'm not so sure that would still be the case, and is there any worse world to imagine than one in which the Knicks are stuck with Julius Randle, to the point that no reasonable amount of sweeteners would entice a team to take him on? I'm not sure I can imagine one.

The time is now. This isn't a luxury; it is a necessity. There can be no progress without first taking this unfortunate step backwards. It's OK ... it happens. Again: we'll understand.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 07, 2022, 12:27:10 PM
And pointless. Does anyone really think the Knicks were not trying to trade Julius?


If they were - simply to subtract him - he would be gone
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 07, 2022, 12:36:16 PM
Too funny


https://twitter.com/AdamZagoria/status/1567265551369605120?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1567265551369605120%7Ctwgr%5E5e73558512b8064e88838a283e4e594321c8e4e8%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fhoopshype.com%2Frumors%2F
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 07, 2022, 06:56:33 PM
Wow.  Just wow.

 The main negotiator in the Knicks Jazz talks on New Yorks side was Gersson Rosas, who was let go by the Timberwolves for his part in a reportedly dysfunctional front office that included his relationship with a team employee. Rosas was hired as a consultant by the Knicks in February but took control of the Mitchell talks because of his relationship with Jazz general manager Justin Zanik
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 07, 2022, 06:58:25 PM
Ainge and Leon never apparently got on the phone with each other.

I don't have an issue with this.   They delegate the groundwork/gruntwork and make the final decision.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 07, 2022, 07:09:39 PM
https://hoopshype.com/team/new-york-knicks/

Yeah, the fact they never spoke sickens me.  I have been bullish on Leon from day one.  But Gersan Rojas?  A recent addition to the management team leading the talks?  My God.  Then it turns out the Utah GM was closer with the CLE guy.

Read the scroll for other tidbits, including that we now may be targeting Shai-Gil

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 07, 2022, 09:35:00 PM
Grow a pair, Kiid.

Rose was giving Danny just enough attention to make sure some eastern conference team was going to be out of contention for the foreseeable future. Turns out it was the Cavs.

Let us see how the pieces we have fit together before we go shipping them off, eh?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 07, 2022, 10:10:10 PM
Rose was giving Danny just enough attention to make sure some eastern conference team was going to be out of contention for the foreseeable future. Turns out it was the Cavs.


Stop being so moronic, man.  Bring up the level a bit this season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on September 07, 2022, 10:20:29 PM
Now that I've read the article Kam pasted, I suppose I have the same response that there's nothing new here.

But it's true that having argument piled upon argument is persuasive.

I especially resonate with his comment about Randle playing a style "that doesn't fit with the pace & space of the modern game." Though that makes me think about Thib's capacity to run the offense any differently regardless.

In any case, is anyone aware of trades that the Knicks have turned down? Because they may have put themselves in a position where there's nothing else to do now but hope for the best.

That is, I hear the advantages to getting rid of Randall, and how terrible things will be with him, but I don't hear from the writer (perhaps I missed it) any practical suggestions how that would be done.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on September 07, 2022, 10:25:51 PM
I do think winning changes everything.

He suggests that as soon as Julius falters, the fan will pounce.

But if we're playing well together, I'm not so sure. I think with strong but unselfish play, he can earn back the respect of Knick fans.

Sounds corny and unlikely. But it would be wild to see.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 07, 2022, 11:49:10 PM
Jules as a 30-32 minute guy working hard on the little things can still get us 20 and 10 with a bit more efficiency. He makes up as a rebounder some of what he gives up with positional defense.

Even if he stays as bad as he was last season, he should be more traceable as both the length of his contract and dollars owed go down.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 08, 2022, 10:49:55 AM
But if we are playing well together, I am not so sure. I think with strong but unselfish play, he can earn back the respect of Knick fans.


He never had it - even after posting a superior season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 08, 2022, 02:52:53 PM
It is true. No one but his kid loves Randle the way you love Jimmer.
Title: When All Is Said & Done
Post by: chipstern on September 08, 2022, 04:06:48 PM
(https://sportshub.cbsistatic.com/i/r/2020/10/06/2c8bddef-3205-45cf-a08b-fb5ffe3cdd88/thumbnail/1200x675/9654fcbce87d5dfbd5e3afb5fba1d6b0/julius-randle-son.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 08, 2022, 07:53:14 PM
Yup. And now we got to give the guy a chance. Another rodeo, Jules. Be an unbeatable bull or bronco, not a clown.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 08, 2022, 09:21:45 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 08, 2022, 07:53:14 PM
Yup. And now we got to give the guy a chance. Another rodeo, Jules. Be an unbeatable bull or bronco, not a clown.

Pride got the best of him negatively last year.

I'm anticipating pride superchrges him this season, with so many handicappers writing him off. 
Title: Randle Mantra
Post by: chipstern on September 09, 2022, 01:07:55 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FUW6ZObXsAEaEkD?format=jpg&name=900x900)

Looks like he lost some weight: apply yourself to footwork, moving without the ball, setting screens, getting that midrange jumper on track like in 2020-21...make more decisive decisions, don't let the ball stick, commit to DEFENSE; shrug off negativity both from without AND within.  All Knicks fans want is commitment AND positivity.  Embrace being a faciltator, both literally and figuratively--when Brunson AND Barrett are going better, YOU ARE DOING BETTER...team...Team...TEAM...T-E-A-M.  Winning cures all ills.  In lieu of winning, 48 minutes of focus. 

Title: Re: Randle Mantra
Post by: chipstern on September 09, 2022, 01:23:44 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 09, 2022, 01:07:55 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FUW6ZObXsAEaEkD?format=jpg&name=900x900)

Looks like he lost some weight: apply yourself to footwork, moving without the ball, setting screens, getting that midrange jumper on track like in 2020-21...make more decisive decisions, don't let the ball stick, commit to DEFENSE; shrug off negativity both from without AND within.  All Knicks fans want is commitment AND positivity.  Embrace being a faciltator, both literally and figuratively--when Brunson AND Barrett are going better, YOU ARE DOING BETTER...team...Team...TEAM...T-E-A-M.  Winning cures all ills.  In lieu of winning, 48 minutes of focus.

Jericho looking seriously cut as well.  Looks like he put on some weight, all of it muscle. 
Title: WWW
Post by: chipstern on September 09, 2022, 01:32:19 PM
World Wide Wes

Said the Jazz

Wanted my wife

They wanted my kids

They wanted my grandkids

They were just trying to rip somebody off
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 09, 2022, 02:06:48 PM
The offer was there.   We know what Jazz wanted.

As drafts occur Chip can tell us what we get instead.

If only elite scorers grew on trees - if only free agents were given to teams in some type of order andd we  were due for one....if only there were no Frank, no Knox (a pox on Jackson and Mills)....

We move on.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 09, 2022, 03:03:48 PM
We bet on Brunson, a better technician and tactician with less pop, to be our general. We finally got ourselves a full size full tool set big man.

Brunson Rose Quickley Grimes Barrett

That is 60-70 points out of your backcourt with physicality, intelligence, tenacity, energy, and range. That is a long night for any set of guards any team has in the league.

Evan and Cam at small forwards might be the weak link on this team which will see RJ there some and a potential look at Hunt.

Obi and Randle are strong.

Mitch IHeart and Jericho are strong.

We have assets and roster spots to shore up anything that is falling short on the fly or pounce on a good opportunity if one springs up.

Most folks including most Knicks fans have us nicely underrated.

We are set up to be the kind of team that gets opponent coaches fired mid season again.
Title: On The Clock
Post by: chipstern on September 09, 2022, 03:29:39 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 09, 2022, 03:03:48 PM
We bet on Brunson, a better technician and tactician with less pop, to be our general. We finally got ourselves a full size full tool set big man.

Brunson Rose Quickley Grimes Barrett

That is 60-70 points out of your backcourt with physicality, intelligence, tenacity, energy, and range. That is a long night for any set of guards any team has in the league.

Evan and Cam at small forwards might be the weak link on this team which will see RJ there some and a potential look at Hunt.

Obi and Randle are strong.

Mitch IHeart and Jericho are strong.

We have assets and roster spots to shore up anything that is falling short on the fly or pounce on a good opportunity if one springs up.

Most folks including most Knicks fans have us nicely underrated.

We are set up to be the kind of team that gets opponent coaches fired mid season again.

Coming into training camp, EVERYONE IS ON THE CLOCK. 

Front Office

Coaching Staff

Players

We KNOW everyone wants to be a Knick. 

Competition should be fierce. 

NOTHING IS GIVEN. 

Worth noting, going into Training Camp, that Fournier and the French Team are competing in the overseas tournament. 

Was an interesting clip, post-victory over Hungary, where Evan Fournier was lambasting his fellow Frenchmen [and himself] over how they were not playing up to their level...no excuses. 

So if Reddish and Grimes want some of Barrett and Fournier's minutes, they're going to have to step up in class. 

GOOD.

Likewise Robinson and Hartenstein

Likewise Randle and Toppin

Likewise Rose, IQ and Deuce fighting it out behind Brunson. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 09, 2022, 04:11:38 PM
CAPTAIN Evan Fournier
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 09, 2022, 09:29:50 PM
Captain. Yup. That should up his trade value to where we do not have to attach as many assets to move him. I like it. Spread the word.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 10, 2022, 12:03:15 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on September 09, 2022, 04:11:38 PM
CAPTAIN Evan Fournier

Captain and single season record holder. Act now while supplies last. Conditional first rounder attached to competitive qualifying offers. Multi-team involvement is no impediment. This guy can really space the floor.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 10, 2022, 09:51:46 AM
Eric Gordon anyone?

Shae rumor as well

https://heavy.com/sports/new-york-knicks/blockbuster-eric-gordon-trade/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 10, 2022, 12:27:23 PM
NBCs Kurt Helin


One thing clear in the wake of the non trade in New York There was no consensus in the Knicks front office on how to move forward with this trade. New Yorks  front office has a lot of influential people used to being the decision maker  Leon Rose, World Wide Wes, Gerson Rosas  who did much of the day to day negotiating , Scott Perry, owner James Dolan, and the list goes on and on  and that can lead to mixed messages. Look at the breadth of reporting out of NYC and it is clear some in the Knicks front office were more into making this deal than others, and the result is a jumble of different paths and offers  with Utah trying to squeeze more out of New York. The Cavaliers offer was cut and dried  three unprotected picks were the most they could offer. It was on the table.

As noted when breaking down the winners and losers from this trade, it is impossible to say today if the Knicks did the right thing by not upping their offer to get the deal done. It is better not to overpay and tie their hands for future moves, but whether the Knicks regret this will depend on if they can land whoever the next available superstar is and how the team develops from here. Maybe it is a blown opportunity to land an All Star, elite scorer who wanted to be in New York. On the other hand, maybe they dodged a bullet and what is right around the corner is better. We will see.


https://sports.yahoo.com/charles-barkley-drops-knicks-front-155021809.html
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 10, 2022, 03:05:50 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on September 10, 2022, 09:51:46 AM
Eric Gordon anyone?

Shae rumor as well

https://heavy.com/sports/new-york-knicks/blockbuster-eric-gordon-trade/

Criminally dumb
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 10, 2022, 03:07:44 PM
What is?
Title: Pointless
Post by: chipstern on September 10, 2022, 03:44:07 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on September 10, 2022, 03:07:44 PM
What is?

Gee, I don't know, trading a 6'7" rotation player who, his defensive limitations duly acknowledged, gives us coverage at SF/SG, having just set the Knicks season record for three-pointer made, for a 6'3" SF/SG in the twilight of his career, who is due to turn 34 in December, having played 75, 69, 68, 36, 27, 57 games in his past six seasons for the Rockets, when we already have Quentin Grimes, Immanuel Quickley and Cam Reddish jousting for rotation minutes with Barrett and Fournier, and tossing in a #1 pick to boot.  At least Carmelo would be free, though, the past few days, reports of Celtics interest in him with Gallinari going down have been floated and shot down. 

Utterly pointless. 

PS: Shai Gilgeous-Alexander?  Had a Randle like descent in 3-point shooting last season [from .412% to .300%], but still, a 24 year old 6'6" combo guard who averaged 23.7 and 24.5 the past two seasons, with 5.9 assists per game, converting 328-405 FTs last season [.810%], while only playing 56 games.  I've noticed those "reports" indicating Shai is on the Knicks radar.  Now WHY exactly would the Thunder trade him?  Seems like a pretty damn nice back court with Alexander and Josh Giddey.  Another Bored Blogster False Flag. 

PPS: Right, I can hear someone saying that "Gordon would be our ticket to the playoffs."  Uh huh. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 10, 2022, 03:46:38 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 10, 2022, 03:05:50 PM
Criminally dumb


I like that trade.
I proposed it months ago.

It opens minutes for Grimes, IQ, Cam, and Hunt while clearing 19 million or so in mid term salary. We still have ours, and a load of conditionals in 2023. Gordon due to salary is much more flippable than Captain Ev as things go forward. When Gordon is healthy he is at least as effective as Fournier if not more so.

Get it done, Kid. Use your influence.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 10, 2022, 06:38:57 PM
Following this season Shai makes 33 then 37 mil.  This year likely yields no fruit.  So what is the plan with Shai going forward?  Take a good 2 year run?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 10, 2022, 10:54:28 PM
Shai and Giddy are going to carve up their conference. It may or may not lead to wins, but it will be fun to watch.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 10, 2022, 11:57:30 PM
Since we all love doing business with Danny, Bojan for Evan and the conditional first from Washington.

They are essentially interchangeable on the floor with Bojan the better passer. His deal ends this year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 11, 2022, 12:03:34 PM
PPS: Right, I can hear someone saying that "Gordon would be our ticket to the playoffs."  Uh huh.


I have to ask

What the fuck is wrong with you?

Any bit of information posted here has to be  LEVELED to the ground.

Posting abut Gordon doesn't mean I approve the deal.  Or anyone here has.

I know you are some kind of wannabe or failed writer but these newspaper guys get the shaft from you immediately every time.  Its become amusing.
Title: Triumph Of The Will [Facil-A-Ting Rhythm]
Post by: chipstern on September 11, 2022, 07:15:40 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 10, 2022, 11:57:30 PM
Since we all love doing business with Danny, Bojan for Evan and the conditional first from Washington.

They are essentially interchangeable on the floor with Bojan the better passer. His deal ends this year.

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRL6yfjk45jz5xHvixYcmP0aoB8MbbF28YM1A&usqp=CAU)

When it comes to Trader Vics, we are truly humbled to engage with such a master of the craft. 

Who else in the Knicks originization could contest the irrefutable logic of your construct. 

Let alone the spiritual topper of proferring a #1 draft pick--A NUMBER ONE Fucking DRAFT PICK--to friend of the family, Danny "I Want World Wide Wes' First Born Child + Seven Number One Picks" Ainge. 

Duly noted.  BRAVO. 

I'm guessing that only the call of some pressing business diverted you from completing this spiritual epiphany by offering DannyBoy a complmentary reach around on the house. 

(https://y.yarn.co/c415bc5e-c56a-4ca6-b090-560ea13f1a95_text.gif)

A curious oversight on such a well thought out phantasy. 

Title: New York FOOTBALL Giants
Post by: chipstern on September 11, 2022, 07:28:52 PM
Holy KATZ

(https://www.trentonian.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/Judge_says_Barkley_needs_live_contact_before_he_can_play_for_Giants_1.jpg?w=233)

WHAT A FINISH
Title: Youth Will Be Served
Post by: chipstern on September 11, 2022, 08:17:38 PM
(https://c.ndtvimg.com/2022-09/nhbjj9sg_carlos-alcaraz-afp_625x300_12_September_22.jpg?im=FeatureCrop,algorithm=dnn,width=806,height=605)
Title: Re: Triumph Of The Will [Facil-A-Ting Rhythm]
Post by: facilitatorn on September 11, 2022, 08:33:06 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 11, 2022, 07:15:40 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 10, 2022, 11:57:30 PM
Since we all love doing business with Danny, Bojan for Evan and the conditional first from Washington.

They are essentially interchangeable on the floor with Bojan the better passer. His deal ends this year.

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRL6yfjk45jz5xHvixYcmP0aoB8MbbF28YM1A&usqp=CAU)

When it comes to Trader Vics, we are truly humbled to engage with such a master of the craft. 

Who else in the Knicks originization could contest the irrefutable logic of your construct. 

Let alone the spiritual topper of proferring a #1 draft pick--A NUMBER ONE Fucking DRAFT PICK--to friend of the family, Danny "I Want World Wide Wes' First Born Child + Seven Number One Picks" Ainge. 

Duly noted.  BRAVO. 

I'm guessing that only the call of some pressing business diverted you from completing this spiritual epiphany by offering DannyBoy a complmentary reach around on the house. 

(https://y.yarn.co/c415bc5e-c56a-4ca6-b090-560ea13f1a95_text.gif)

A curious oversight on such a well thought out phantasy.

A highly protected pick, protected to the high teens if it ever conveys.

Hearing Bojan is injured, the whole idea has to be scuttled anyway.

Back to looking at Hayward or Barnes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 11, 2022, 08:59:09 PM
Randle for Barnes, Lyles, and Davis.

They would all be playing for a next contract.

Mitch IHeart Sims
Toppin Barnes Lyles
RJ Reddish Fournier
Grimes IQ Davis
Brunson Rose McBride

It unclogs everything by replacing Randle with two forwards who produce from the wing spot and another body to throw at physical wings in Davis. Lyles is not much but could be a plug in emergencies.

Barnes is not in the caliber of Randle, but his style is still effective, good for our team, and he is someone Obi can gain from emulating in his development. Barnes would return some of the level headed leadership lost in Taj leaving while being potentially more effective on the floor.

Barnes turns 31 at the end of the season, Lyles is 27, and Davis is 25.

This makes sense if you believe that Obi getting 15 and 7 over 30 minutes is more conducive to the Knicks winning than Randle getting 20 and 10 over 35.

Toppin and Barnes do not slow the game down until they are ready to make their move. They move the game along and they try to keep up with their defensive responsibilities, good qualities in power forwards.

It would put the offensive leadership onus squarely in the backcourt which is the place on this team where I trust it.

Title: Fac
Post by: carlos123 on September 11, 2022, 10:15:40 PM
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AL9nZEVJ-yXQAe-A09WfcwSHiGQgAtlDk7BVjgmPLJhqhPBHCfVriYqTtPM66gia-YAwk_--vwu4xXPI6hjOETdDuUSNgBdk7NffwLvi6Lze4LEXH67vMObxZbFtNfyTqL-kydmskT_vx0_oXne8HtmtuIsf=w598-h411-no?authuser=0)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 12, 2022, 03:23:15 AM
The Kings can Keep Davis. We have the guards we need.  I am fine with Barnes and Lyles for Randle.

Mitch IHeart Sims
Obi Barnes Lyles
RJ Cam Fournier
Grimes IQ
Brunson Rose McBride

That will work for me.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 12, 2022, 05:27:31 PM
Uh Huh

🙈🙉🙊
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 12, 2022, 06:00:24 PM
Lyles, Barnes, and Randle had nearly the same PER, 16.1, 15.7, and 15.6, respectively. Lyles and Barnes have usages just north of 18, while Randle has a usage of 28. Lyles and Barnes have true shooting percentages over .610 while Randle was around .500. Lyles and Barnes each have a significantly better win share rate than Randle, and both are net positives on both offense and Defense.

Neither needs to start or get lots of shots and either can step in and produce as needed. It reduces friction on Obi moving into a starting spot.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 12, 2022, 06:08:05 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 12, 2022, 06:00:24 PM
Lyles, Barnes, and Randle had nearly the same PER, 16.1, 15.7, and 15.6, respectively. Lyles and Barnes have usages just north of 18, while Randle has a usage of 28. Lyles and Barnes have true shooting percentages over .610 while Randle was around .500. Lyles and Barnes each have a significantly better win share rate than Randle, and both are net positives on both offense and Defense.

Neither needs to start or get lots of shots and either can step in and produce as needed. It reduces friction on Obi moving into a starting spot.

Uh huh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 12, 2022, 06:33:12 PM
Now you are getting it.

Also the Bogdon of the Hawks has the knee problem. Bojan of the Jazz is just fine, so the Utah deal is back on where they take Evan and a conditional first and a second for him.

Even if Thibs wants to start by trotting out the vets, we are a better team. The only guy on that starting lineup who gets less than 16 per game is Mitch.

Mitch IHeart Sims
Barnes Obi Lyles
Bojan Reddish
RJ Grimes IQ
Brunson Rose McBride

We are sending out 34 points 12 rebound and 7 assists while taking back 42 points, 13 boards, and 6 dimes while addressing our lack of depth at small stretch swing forward and saving us two million this year and 44 the year following unless we like these guys enough to bring them back.

There, I made it all better for you.

The lineups I would want to see is Mitch Toppin Barnes Barrett Brunson with Hartenstein Lyles Reddish Grimes Quickley off the bench and Rose and Bogdonovic as next men up while Sims and McBride develop. Bojan might beat out Cam, which would be fine. Rose I think would be good giving Quickley the more regular role.
Title: Oy Vey
Post by: chipstern on September 12, 2022, 08:02:05 PM
(https://media4.giphy.com/media/MrdaOsKoKxjm8/giphy.gif?cid=e2a3cbdeko4o6q9d9267pbuuo7dlg3a31obikp9841mbw0ox&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)

(https://c.tenor.com/9D-c7LluDKUAAAAM/oy-vey.gif)

Training Camp Can Not Come A Moment Too Soon

(https://s.yimg.com/uu/api/res/1.2/1RFbtpFRUqhksjI4nubjOQ--~B/aD0yNTA7dz00NDQ7YXBwaWQ9eXRhY2h5b24-/https://media.zenfs.com/en/sny_articles_235/80274461e25c44db393b4328892b018d)

(https://andscape.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/GettyImages-1231150901-e1614008418693.jpg?w=700)


https://nypost.com/2022/09/12/nba-exec-lauds-knicks-jalen-brunson-move-bright-future/ (https://nypost.com/2022/09/12/nba-exec-lauds-knicks-jalen-brunson-move-bright-future/)




Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 13, 2022, 02:15:16 PM
Lyles, Barnes, and Randle had nearly the same PER, 16.1, 15.7, and 15.6, respectively. Lyles and Barnes have usages just north of 18, while Randle has a usage of 28. Lyles and Barnes have true shooting percentages over .610 while Randle was around .500. Lyles and Barnes each have a significantly better win share rate than Randle, and both are net positives on both offense and Defense.



Just Barnes' 4th time above 15 PER

Career 13.7.  High 16.3

No problem with Barnes, just not in that deal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 13, 2022, 07:18:59 PM
Now Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk is expected to consider his options. His priority is one: to stay in the US by finding an NBA contract. After all, this is a player who has grown up with the American mentality, having attended a very good college program  at Kansas , while in recent years he has been finding stable contracts on the other side of the Atlantic  Pistons, Lakers, Thunder, Raptors . Since he is a free agent he will look at every option on the table, but his absolute priority remains the NBA, without ruling out the prospect of the G League, so that through there he can find the opportunity to return to the top basketball league of the world. After all, he is at a very productive age  25 , he knows he has a lot to give and he wants to test his strength against the best.  via SDNA


We got room.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 13, 2022, 09:34:55 PM
 Svi is no Theo Pinson.
Title: Pinson For Hire
Post by: chipstern on September 13, 2022, 10:14:10 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 13, 2022, 09:34:55 PM
Svi is no Theo Pinson.

Touche

PS: Fournier and Barrett, Grimes and Reddish, let alone IQ & Obi [Hunt & Keels], we're not really hot to trot for a superfluous wing.  No reason

PPS: By my count, we ALREADY Have FIFTEEN, including our pair of two-way contracts...

C: Robinson, Hartenstein, Sims
PF: Randle, Toppin
SF-SG: Barrett, Reddish [Hunt] Fournier, Grimes [Keels]
PG-SG: Brunson, Quickley, Rose, McBride
Title: It's Time
Post by: chipstern on September 13, 2022, 10:18:40 PM
Enough transactions.

That ship has sailed. 

Time to start projecting rotations. 

Open question to the Forum Handicappers?

Might we see Randle-Toppin, Barrett-Reddish, Brunson-Rose on the floor at the same time? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 14, 2022, 06:51:56 AM
Putting Hunt and Keels with Svi is funny stuff.

But you are likely right - he will seek a better opportunity for playing time.  Would be vying with Grimes to be 3rd wing here.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 14, 2022, 08:18:29 AM
Might we see Randle-Toppin, Barrett-Reddish, Brunson-Rose on the floor at the same time?


I am going to say yes (sparingly), no and YES

If Derrick is healthy, Rose and Brunson could be a closing unit.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 14, 2022, 12:37:19 PM
https://twitter.com/overtime/status/1569805866190372865
Title: Re: It's Time
Post by: Kam on September 14, 2022, 04:35:24 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 13, 2022, 10:18:40 PM
Enough transactions.

That ship has sailed. 

Time to start projecting rotations. 

Open question to the Forum Handicappers?

Might we see Randle-Toppin, Barrett-Reddish, Brunson-Rose on the floor at the same time?

https://knicksfilmschool.substack.com/p/the-ideal-knicks-rotation (https://knicksfilmschool.substack.com/p/the-ideal-knicks-rotation)

Jonathan Macri devoted his entire column to this question today.   He put forth two scenarios.


I'm going to answer this question in two ways:

What's my ideal 10-man rotation if I'm allowed to make reasonable roster changes before the season?

What's my ideal 10-man rotation if I'm not allowed to make changes, and I have to go into the season with this roster?


1. Ideal Rotation (with trades)

Starters: Jalen Brunson, Quentin Grimes, RJ Barrett, Obi Toppin, Isaiah Hartenstein

Reserves: Deuce McBride, Immanuel Quickley, Evan Fournier, Mitchell Robinson


The trade:

Suns get: Julius Randle

Lakers get: Derrick Rose, Jae Crowder, Cam Reddish, Dario Saric

Knicks get: Russell Westbrook, Torrey Craig, 2027 Lakers 1st round pick (top-5 protected)


Proposed minutes totals: Brunson 34, Barrett 34, Grimes 32, Toppin 32, Quickley 30, Hartenstein 24, Robinson 24, Fournier 18, McBride 12


2. Ideal Rotation (without trades)

Starters: Jalen Brunson, Quentin Grimes, RJ Barrett, Julius Randle, Isaiah Hartenstein

Reserves: Derrick Rose, Immanuel Quickley, Evan Fournier, Obi Toppin, Mitchell Robinson

Proposed minutes totals: Brunson 32, Barrett 32, Randle 28, Grimes 26, Toppin 24 Quickley 24, Robinson 22, Hartenstein 22, Fournier 16, Rose 14
Title: Re: It's Time
Post by: chipstern on September 14, 2022, 05:15:42 PM
Quote from: Kam on September 14, 2022, 04:35:24 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 13, 2022, 10:18:40 PM
Enough transactions.

That ship has sailed. 

Time to start projecting rotations. 

Open question to the Forum Handicappers?

Might we see Randle-Toppin, Barrett-Reddish, Brunson-Rose on the floor at the same time?

https://knicksfilmschool.substack.com/p/the-ideal-knicks-rotation (https://knicksfilmschool.substack.com/p/the-ideal-knicks-rotation)

Jonathan Macri devoted his entire column to this question today.   He put forth two scenarios.


I'm going to answer this question in two ways:

What's my ideal 10-man rotation if I'm allowed to make reasonable roster changes before the season?

What's my ideal 10-man rotation if I'm not allowed to make changes, and I have to go into the season with this roster?


1. Ideal Rotation (with trades)

Starters: Jalen Brunson, Quentin Grimes, RJ Barrett, Obi Toppin, Isaiah Hartenstein

Reserves: Deuce McBride, Immanuel Quickley, Evan Fournier, Mitchell Robinson


The trade:

Suns get: Julius Randle

Lakers get: Derrick Rose, Jae Crowder, Cam Reddish, Dario Saric

Knicks get: Russell Westbrook, Torrey Craig, 2027 Lakers 1st round pick (top-5 protected)


Proposed minutes totals: Brunson 34, Barrett 34, Grimes 32, Toppin 32, Quickley 30, Hartenstein 24, Robinson 24, Fournier 18, McBride 12


2. Ideal Rotation (without trades)

Starters: Jalen Brunson, Quentin Grimes, RJ Barrett, Julius Randle, Isaiah Hartenstein

Reserves: Derrick Rose, Immanuel Quickley, Evan Fournier, Obi Toppin, Mitchell Robinson

Proposed minutes totals: Brunson 32, Barrett 32, Randle 28, Grimes 26, Toppin 24 Quickley 24, Robinson 22, Hartenstein 22, Fournier 16, Rose 14

Come on KAM.

That trade is utterly specious and counterproductive. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 14, 2022, 06:45:03 PM
Lets not give up two rotation players just to move off Randle even if it gets us a 2027 first round pick.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 14, 2022, 07:28:06 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 14, 2022, 06:45:03 PM
Lets not give up two rotation players just to move off Randle even if it gets us a 2027 first round pick.

Right. 

Julius, Derrick and Cam for...

A draft pick that won't convey for five years. 

A fading superstar in Westbrook who wants to start. 

And let's not forget we get 32 year old Torey Craig.  Be still my heart. 

If we are going to offload JR, let's maximize his value first, and get value for value. 

These DUMP JR at any price scenarios are petulant and self immolating. 
Title: Re: It's Time
Post by: Kam on September 14, 2022, 07:28:20 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 14, 2022, 05:15:42 PM
Quote from: Kam on September 14, 2022, 04:35:24 PM


The trade:

Suns get: Julius Randle

Lakers get: Derrick Rose, Jae Crowder, Cam Reddish, Dario Saric

Knicks get: Russell Westbrook, Torrey Craig, 2027 Lakers 1st round pick (top-5 protected)


Proposed minutes totals: Brunson 34, Barrett 34, Grimes 32, Toppin 32, Quickley 30, Hartenstein 24, Robinson 24, Fournier 18, McBride 12


2. Ideal Rotation (without trades)

Starters: Jalen Brunson, Quentin Grimes, RJ Barrett, Julius Randle, Isaiah Hartenstein

Reserves: Derrick Rose, Immanuel Quickley, Evan Fournier, Obi Toppin, Mitchell Robinson

Proposed minutes totals: Brunson 32, Barrett 32, Randle 28, Grimes 26, Toppin 24 Quickley 24, Robinson 22, Hartenstein 22, Fournier 16, Rose 14

Come on KAM.

That trade is utterly specious and counterproductive.

This is his rationale~

The end result is New York sends out three players who either deserve or think they deserve heavy minutes in the rotation and takes back the largest expiring contract in the league, plus Craig, who would slot into the rotation as the 10th man.

In my world, he'd never see the court. For as much as Thibs is rightly criticized for a number of misgivings, I've never had an issue with his penchant for wanting a shorter rotation. I think it helps guys get into a rhythm and allows for more creativity with lineup combinations.

Here, he'd have exactly that. My vision for this group would be one where RJ Barrett is the first starter to come out of the game, hitting the bench while Immanuel Quickley checks in. Barrett would then check back in after a few minutes for Obi Toppin, essentially serving as the backup four while also helping run the offense when Brunson sits.

His co-pilot during those minutes would be IQ. With Derrick Rose gone, IQ would finally be able to take on a greater share of the playmaking responsibilities, while Deuce would slot into the role that Quickley himself has occupied for much of the last two seasons. When he's with the starters, IQ could thrive in more of an off-ball role alongside Brunson in what I think would be an incredibly entertaining five-man unit.

That gets me to the other major change here, one which reflects my proposal from Monday's column: swapping the centers. I love this not only for the benefits Hartenstein brings to the first five, but with RJ playing more with the backups, Barrett gets to continue his burgeoning lob connection with Mitchell Robinson. Evan Fournier and Deuce McBride would (along with Quickley) provide ample floor spacing for these units, and the presence of Deuce and IQ at the point of attack with Mitch as the backstop would help insulate Fournier's defensive shortcomings.


I think this team could certainly finish above .500, and if Brunson is as good as I think he could be with something close to a 30 usage rate (with RJ slightly behind him in the 26-27 range and Immanuel Quickley just a tick behind them at around 23 or 24), I don't think an offensive rating ranking in the 16-18 range is out of the question.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 14, 2022, 07:31:07 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 14, 2022, 07:28:06 PM


If we are going to offload JR, let's maximize his value first, and get value for value. 



(https://media1.giphy.com/media/3oz8xRQiRlaS1XwnPW/200w.gif?cid=82a1493bmzhvvvxe51injccm9tbvm0ni9m6xb0cmkw55l6i3&rid=200w.gif&ct=g)

That ship has sailed. 

This is a guy signed longterm you have to attach an asset with to move.

"Re-Building his value" is also code for "Obi sits for the thirst straight year ensuring we've wasted yet another draft pick"
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 14, 2022, 07:32:21 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 14, 2022, 06:45:03 PM
Lets not give up two rotation players just to move off Randle even if it gets us a 2027 first round pick.

It's about moving off a poison contract with the chance to torpedo our season.    Do y'all forget last year?

Open that cap space up, and open that time for OBI.   Win Win.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 14, 2022, 07:53:29 PM
If we want to help the Lakers move off Rusty, give them Jules and Fournier. We give up less talent and more salary that way.
Title: Just...STOP
Post by: chipstern on September 14, 2022, 08:36:55 PM
The idea that Randle's contract is poison is such unmitigated, hysterical, hissyfit BullShit. 

Starting with      2022-23

Jalen Brunson   $27,733,332   $26,346,666   $24,960,001   $24,960,001

Julius Randle   $23,760,000   $25,660,800   $27,561,600   $29,462,400

RJ Barrett           $10,900,634   $23,883,929   $25,794,643   $27,705,357   $29,616,071

Evan Fournier   $18,000,000   $18,857,143   $19,000,000

Mitchell Robinson   $17,045,454   $15,681,818   $14,318,182   $12,954,546

Derrick Rose   $14,520,730   $15,596,339

Green = Player Option

Red = Team Option

All in the name of some psychic vendetta/payback. 

Would I be open to trading Julius and Evan?

If we get back actual talent or actual assets. 

I get the open up playing time for Obi & Quentin scenarios. 

The ideal way for that to happen to is to play their ass off on offense and defense in training camp and challenge Julius and Evan for every minute. 

And your "scenario" involves offloading Thibs main man Rose and 23 year old Cam and taking back 32 year old career slug Trey FUCKING Lyles. 

Just...STOP already.

Get psyched for TRAINING CAMP, not a Randle Phatwah.

PS: This one's for you Facil.  The New York Knicks are signing forward DaQuan Jeffries on a training camp deal
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 14, 2022, 09:03:20 PM
I just came by to post about that. I like the move and think Jefferies could stick.

Lyles is 27 by the way. He has a long way to go till 32. 

Jules is here for now. Let us hope he can get out of his own way. If he does, he could be very helpful to the team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 14, 2022, 09:26:20 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 14, 2022, 09:03:20 PM
I just came by to post about that. I like the move and think Jefferies could stick.

Lyles is 27 by the way. He has a long way to go till 32. 

Jules is here for now. Let us hope he can get out of his own way. If he does, he could be very helpful to the team.

Trey Bien

My bad

Another Trey

Torrey Craig

Still doesn't add up. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on September 14, 2022, 09:52:48 PM
Excited about seeing Hartenstein. But I don't believe the Knicks gave Mitchell that contract to lead the 2nd team, and it feels absurd to imagine he'll be used that way.

I don't get Westbrook thing either. Yes, I grasp the money part. But is he suggesting Thibs should just park Westbrook on the bench, something that seems incredibly toxic for the whole team, or that they pay Westbrook and then release him?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 14, 2022, 11:27:56 PM
Westbrook wouldn't suit up.  He'd stay at home collecting his expiring salary until which time he is released or dealt.

The prize is the Lakers pick, YES 5 years out, as they might be quite crummy by then.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 14, 2022, 11:55:41 PM
I think this team could certainly finish above .500

 


uhh....  no way
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 15, 2022, 02:09:50 AM
Quote from: Kam on September 14, 2022, 11:27:56 PM
Westbrook wouldn't suit up.  He'd stay at home collecting his expiring salary until which time he is released or dealt.

The prize is the Lakers pick, YES 5 years out, as they might be quite crummy by then.

Randle
Rose
Reddish

For a player who won't suit up

And a prize draft pick five years in the future

Yes sir.  You sure do drive a hard bargain. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 15, 2022, 09:12:45 AM
Quote from: chipstern on September 15, 2022, 02:09:50 AM
Quote from: Kam on September 14, 2022, 11:27:56 PM
Westbrook wouldn't suit up.  He'd stay at home collecting his expiring salary until which time he is released or dealt.

The prize is the Lakers pick, YES 5 years out, as they might be quite crummy by then.

Randle
Rose
Reddish

For a player who won't suit up

And a prize draft pick five years in the future

Yes sir.  You sure do drive a hard bargain.

Randle.  for Obi
Rose.  for IQ
Reddish. for the draft pick.


Which minutes breakdown serves our youth and cap sheet?

Proposed minutes totals: Brunson 34, Barrett 34, Grimes 32, Toppin 32, Quickley 30, Hartenstein 24, Robinson 24, Fournier 18, McBride 12

Proposed minutes totals: Brunson 32, Barrett 32, Randle 28, Grimes 26, Toppin 24 Quickley 24, Robinson 22, Hartenstein 22, Fournier 16, Rose 14
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 15, 2022, 05:07:09 PM
Quote from: Kam on September 15, 2022, 09:12:45 AM
Proposed minutes totals: Brunson 32, Barrett 32, Randle 28, Grimes 26, Toppin 24 Quickley 24, Robinson 22, Hartenstein 22, Fournier 16, Rose 14

I would shave a little off Quickley, unless he gets minutes off Brunson, and give them and all of the Fournier minutes to Cam, giving him 20.

That would be a good look, keeping the team fresh so it could sprint through the fourth quarter.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 16, 2022, 01:02:35 AM
Agree to disagree.   We need IQ to play more minutes in my book. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on September 16, 2022, 01:48:14 PM
Seems silly to break down minutes this way.

Yeah, I appreciate the reminder that there's only so much time available to split among players.

But any breakdown of minutes should obviously change week by week, no? In most cases, if a guy is playing extremely well or proving especially useful, he gets more hours. And if he sucks, he spends more time sitting.

So at this point, talking about whether Quickly should play 24 minutes or 21 minutes seems absurd.
Title: Ian Begley: Projections On The KNICKS
Post by: chipstern on September 16, 2022, 06:16:41 PM
A few notes as we get closer to the start of Knicks training camp:

MORE MINUTES FOR QUICKLEY?

Tom Thibodeau and the coaching staff have plenty of decisions to make when it comes to roles and minutes this season.

Will young players such as Cam Reddish And Quentin Grimes play ahead of veterans Derrick Rose and Evan Fournier

Will the Knicks try to balance minutes of veterans and young players

Or will they lean toward veterans as they did in the first half of 2021 22

Most of those questions are unanswered at the moment but there is an expectation that Immanuel Quickley will get an increased role early on in per people familiar with the matter.

Quickley averaged 27 minutes per game after the All-Star break and had several strong outings as a playmaker in that time frame and several solid shooting stretches

So it makes sense for New York to give Quickley an expanded role early on

Will other young players such as Reddish Obi Grimes and McBride get more minutes early in the year

Based on the events of last season and this offseason it is fair to assume that Grimes will have a bigger role

To get more minutes for Toppin, the Knicks would probably have to reduce Julius Randle minutes or play Toppin and Randle together thereby keeping Mitchell Robinson and Isaiah Hartenstein on the bench

WHAT ABOUT CAM
 
Reddish role certainly bears watching

His rehab has gone well and people who have seen him in offseason workouts say the 23 year old has looked phenomenal over the summer andearly fall

Title: Lakers
Post by: chipstern on September 16, 2022, 06:28:27 PM
Have inked Dennis Schroeder to a one year deal. 

Talk of Westbrook coming off the bench, which makes a certain amount of sense, in terms of having him anchor a unit where he is the unquestioned lead dog and his style of play is maxed out. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 16, 2022, 09:43:10 PM
I like Russ starting with Beverley
Title: Why Not?
Post by: chipstern on September 17, 2022, 02:30:30 PM
Robinson, Randle, Barrett, Fournier, Brunson

Hartenstein, Toppin, Reddish, Grimes, Quickley

Rose, McBride, Sims
Title: Villanova Connection
Post by: chipstern on September 17, 2022, 05:02:16 PM
Knicks just gave the 6'3"/28 year old PG Ryan Arcidiacono a contract. 

I saw something to the effect that it was a [1 year-guaranteed] $586,136 deal.  Not sure if that was for when he was signed last spring or just a new training camp deal 

Was a team mate with Brunson on the NCAA tournament championionship Villinova team with Miles Bridges. 

Jean Montero [6'3" 175, 19 years old], Garrison Brooks [6'9" 230, 23 years old] and DaQuan Jeffries [6'5" 230, 25 years old] all have EXHIBIT 10 deals going into training camp...I would think Arcidiacono's deal is also an EXHIBIT 10.   

Trevor Keels [6'5, 225, 19 years old] and Feron Hunt [6'8" 195, 23 years old] are our two-way contract players. 

Let's see...does that make 20 players going into training camp?

C: Robinson, Hartenstein, Sims
PF: Randle, Toppin
Wings: Barrett, Reddish, Fournier, Grimes
Guards: Brunson, Quickley, Rose, McBride

Keels, Hunt, Arcidiacono, Montero, Brooks, Jeffries

Nineteen [19] and counting.   

I liked what I saw of Arcidiacono in his late season cameos. 

But Montero kind of teased my interest in summer league. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 17, 2022, 06:57:58 PM
Archie is a good utility guard to have around.

I think Montero is still a year away from being a year away.

It is always good to keep a spot open as camp progresses in case someone interesting comes available.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 17, 2022, 08:00:54 PM
The pup Montero can run with anyone.

He will be relegated to Reddish-like service, as in we like him, he is uber talented but no minutes available.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 17, 2022, 08:34:12 PM
You have his role in Westchester sussed out perfectly.
Title: Re: Why Not?
Post by: elephant on September 18, 2022, 12:30:13 AM
Quote from: chipstern on September 17, 2022, 02:30:30 PM
Robinson, Randle, Barrett, Fournier, Brunson

Hartenstein, Toppin, Reddish, Grimes, Quickley

Rose, McBride, Sims

I'd prefer Grimes right off the bat.

Pretty sure I wouldn't be alone on that one.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 18, 2022, 01:28:28 AM
Robinson, Randle, Barrett, Grimes, Brunson
Hartenstein, Toppin, Reddish, Quickley, Rose
Sims, Fournier, McBride
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 18, 2022, 01:56:48 AM
http://basketball.realgm.com/analysis/268576/Were-Still-Waiting-To-See-Who-RJ-Barrett-Is-Going-To-Be (http://basketball.realgm.com/analysis/268576/Were-Still-Waiting-To-See-Who-RJ-Barrett-Is-Going-To-Be)
Title: Re: Why Not?
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 18, 2022, 03:12:06 PM
Quote from: elephant on September 18, 2022, 12:30:13 AM
Quote from: chipstern on September 17, 2022, 02:30:30 PM
Robinson, Randle, Barrett, Fournier, Brunson

Hartenstein, Toppin, Reddish, Grimes, Quickley

Rose, McBride, Sims

I'd prefer Grimes right off the bat.

Pretty sure I wouldn't be alone on that one.

He will have to win that in camp.
Title: Chalk One Up For The Prophet Kiid
Post by: chipstern on September 18, 2022, 06:19:57 PM
Guess who the Knicks just signed to a partially guaranteed one year deal?

A Wing

Sviatoslav
Mykhailivk
Title: Re: Chalk One Up For The Prophet Kiid
Post by: chipstern on September 18, 2022, 08:57:15 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 18, 2022, 06:19:57 PM
Guess who the Knicks just signed to a partially guaranteed one year deal?

A Wing

Sviatoslav
Mykhailivk

In 2019-2020, over 56 games, 27 as a starter, SM nailed 115-285 threes for a lofty .404% though his 2-pt% was only 51-120, for a .425%, and a .814 FT%

In 2020-21, splitting time between Detroit and OKC, his two point average ascended significantly, to .536%, but his three point shooting took a Julius-like descent, to .334% on 105-314.  Last year for Toronto, on roughly half the minutes, his three point percentage dropped to .306% on 41-134, though I seem to recall him braising the Knicks to a crispy finish in one game. 

This signing, and that of Ryan Arcidiacono, activates my inner Facil. 

Might such depth suggest that Fournier and Reddish, Rose and McBride, might be in play? 

Probably not. 

C: Robinson, Sims

PF-C: Hartenstein

PF: Randle, Toppin

Wings: Barrett, Reddish, Fournier, Grimes, Mykhailivk, Hunt, Keels

Guards: Brunson, Quickley, Rose, McBride, Arcidiacono
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on September 18, 2022, 09:12:09 PM
I'll take the bait.

Kid, your current sign-off "Aileen Cannon is a great American" makes me nauseous.

Our country has had great conservative judges, just as we've had great progressive judges.

But judges of any stripe who are bought and elevated to do the bidding of their greedy and ruthless puppetmasters.....

They may be a lot of things, but they will never be great Americans.
Title: Sieg Heil
Post by: chipstern on September 18, 2022, 09:39:28 PM
Quote from: elephant on September 18, 2022, 09:12:09 PM
I'll take the bait.

Kid, your current sign-off "Aileen Cannon is a great American" makes me nauseous.

Our country has had great conservative judges, just as we've had great progressive judges.

But judges of any stripe who are bought and elevated to do the bidding of their greedy and ruthless puppetmasters.....

They may be a lot of things, but they will never be great Americans.

Did he really say that?

A new LOW. 

Only reason she got the Trump appointment is because Ashley Babbitt was dead. 

(https://scontent-lga3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/307455193_10226248777103846_4815102220862013825_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=gjU8Hk4bp7YAX940Lhl&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-2.xx&oh=00_AT-cA_M2PyU0M6t6NzFatSmYssKHjiNtctkn46A1uC1Rrg&oe=632CCA68)

Here are some more great MAGA Americans for Kiid Himmler to exalt

Title: Re: Sieg Heil
Post by: carlos123 on September 19, 2022, 12:16:44 AM
"Did he really say that?"

And keeps on saying it, with the signature on every single one of his Chamaco posts. The ChamAAco posts have a blank for the time being.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 19, 2022, 01:32:14 AM
Svi might make it through camp on his way to Westchester or overseas.

I would not write off Hunt. He is our only SF-PF and aside from Cam the only guy suitable to guard big wings. Obi is getting there, but it is not natural for him and he has a long way to go.

Svi is a low rent Fournier and we already have a high rent Fournier in Fournier.

Kid is trying to be complicit as possible in crimes against the United States while maintaining his status as a total coward and cunt.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 19, 2022, 01:57:03 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 19, 2022, 01:32:14 AM
Svi might make it through camp on his way to Westchester or overseas.

I would not write off Hunt. He is our only SF-PF and aside from Cam the only guy suitable to guard big wings. Obi is getting there, but it is not natural for him and he has a long way to go.

Svi is a low rent Fournier and we already have a high rent Fournier in Fournier.

Kid is trying to be complicit as possible in crimes against the United States while maintaining his status as a total coward and cunt.

WORD
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 19, 2022, 02:18:02 PM
Judge Cannon, Senate confirmation hearings

 
https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Cannon%20Responses%20to%20QFRs1.pdf

Approved by TWELVE Democrats.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 19, 2022, 02:25:48 PM
The appeals court above her will teach her her job eventually as they correct her mountain of judicial mistakes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 19, 2022, 02:29:56 PM
Archi on a guaranteed minimum deal. Svi, Jefferies, and a big white kid in competition for the fifteenth slot.

Mitch Hartenstein Sims
Randle Obi
RJ Cam Fournier
Grimes IQ Archi
Brunson Rose McBride

I like Hunt at 15, but we do not have to ink him to a regular spot till he has played 50 games.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 19, 2022, 03:12:34 PM
Basically what I am saying is more of this please,

http://youtu.be/YqWbv-D-Rxg (http://youtu.be/YqWbv-D-Rxg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 20, 2022, 12:56:40 AM
Next to our avatars are three icons.   The third one purports to let you send a personal message but I'm not sure it is working.   Can anyone send me a PM?   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 20, 2022, 09:53:32 AM
send me one I will tell you if it works
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 20, 2022, 11:27:09 AM
Quote from: Kam on September 20, 2022, 12:56:40 AM
Next to our avatars are three icons.   The third one purports to let you send a personal message but I'm not sure it is working.   Can anyone send me a PM?

You have a luminous wife.

Happy for you, brother.

That personal enough?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 20, 2022, 07:31:26 PM
Vonleh is definitely making the Celtics cut this year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 20, 2022, 08:34:45 PM
Quote from: Kam on September 20, 2022, 12:56:40 AM
Next to our avatars are three icons.   The third one purports to let you send a personal message but I'm not sure it is working.   Can anyone send me a PM?

U
Sent
Me
A request for my email.address
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 20, 2022, 08:56:40 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 20, 2022, 08:34:45 PM
Quote from: Kam on September 20, 2022, 12:56:40 AM
Next to our avatars are three icons.   The third one purports to let you send a personal message but I'm not sure it is working.   Can anyone send me a PM?

U
Sent
Me
A request for my email address

I found an email.medsage in my junk folder, and a parallel message here in my message box on this site.

I was suspicious of the message.

Took the opportunity to visit your FACEBOOK page where i seemingly discovered your summer wedding to that radiant young lady. 

🖤💜🖤



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 20, 2022, 10:06:34 PM
Congrats, Kam and good luck!
Title: Tick Tock
Post by: chipstern on September 21, 2022, 04:40:15 PM
One Week Till Training Camp

No More SummerTimeBlues Projections & Wet Dreams

Let The COMPETITION Begin

Be Quite The Challenge To Keep Everyone Involved And Divvy Up Minutes

Interesting To SEE How Coach Thibs Approaches The Challenge Of Ramping Up & Deploying His Pride Of PUPPIES

In any event, we have two NEW Players who are seemingly an excellent fit, in Brunson & Hartenstein, and a pride of pups who have been bonding for one, two, three, four years.  Sounds almost like, oh...CONTINUITY...STABILITY...CHEMISTRY

HOPE? 

Stay Tuned

And NOW...

Jalen Brunson
Immanuel Quickley
Derrick Rose
Miles McBride
Ryan Arcidiacono

(https://www.health-yogi.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/IMG_20220217_204726.jpg)

We are seemingly [Cough, SEEMINGLY] Awash in CAPABLE Point Guards.

Yahweh & The Gods Of Health And Physical Fitness Willing

And overseas, Rokas Jokubaitis, aging in nicely for FC BARCELONA

https://www.basketball-reference.com/international/players/rokas-jokubaitis-1.html (https://www.basketball-reference.com/international/players/rokas-jokubaitis-1.html)

The Joker turns 22 in November. 

(https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2022/01/rokas-jokubaitis-lead.jpg?quality=75&strip=all&w=744)
Title: The Memphis-Kentucky Connection
Post by: chipstern on September 21, 2022, 05:30:43 PM
(https://scontent-lga3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/308146505_10160152463483912_9028301338553508297_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p843x403&_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=a26aad&_nc_ohc=J5QPIvf0gNsAX87358c&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-2.xx&oh=00_AT8RfmYBUIk5hCLmhYIibMeH02Vsiggo3OkQ94DHtAFgWw&oe=63306890)

Worth noting that Rose, Westbrook, Gallinari, Love, Gordon, The Lopez Brothers, McGee, Ibaka, Dragic still active from this 2008 draft


Title: Trader Vics Rejoice
Post by: chipstern on September 21, 2022, 06:40:09 PM
Summer of 2023?

Knicks #1

Dallas #1 [Top 10 Protected]

Wizards #1 [Top 14 Protected]

Ommmmmmmmmmmmmmm

(https://c.tenor.com/hGte7w_zabYAAAAC/crystal-ball-fortune-teller.gif)

Washington has a nice rookie in Johnny Davis, plus a seemingly healthy Beals, Porzingis, Gafford, Kuzma, Hachiumura, Avdija, Kispert and some nice role players.  Their pick could very well convey. 

Three mid-first round #1 picks in the summer of 2023?  A nice tangible asset come December 2022-February 2023-June/July 2023. 

Onwards. 
Title: Ommmmmmmmmmmm
Post by: chipstern on September 21, 2022, 08:05:27 PM
(https://scontent-lga3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/308028728_644909503659570_1387181183056776622_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=k6hvb50x9B4AX86kELB&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-2.xx&oh=00_AT8gqB9H7_oKDrk-RsleDqTS7CJo8_hBtsR6tLQOCS4jRg&oe=63317F9E)
Title: Bye Bye Dickhead
Post by: chipstern on September 21, 2022, 08:42:12 PM
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/BraveNegativeBee-max-1mb.gif)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiKXcHyGMM8
 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiKXcHyGMM8)
(https://y.yarn.co/86ed724a-92c3-47e3-85a1-103c35f22007_text.gif)

The US Court Of Appeals for the 11th District just overturned the decision by Kiid Himmler's heroine, Judge Cannon on behalf of CreamSickle Jeezus. 

(https://images.dailykos.com/images/603665/large/iu_1_?1540500763)

https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-mar-a-lago-criminal-investigations-government-and-politics-fe24760ff9a350ea7aecd1a13c8eef16 (https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-mar-a-lago-criminal-investigations-government-and-politics-fe24760ff9a350ea7aecd1a13c8eef16)

Title: For Chamaco
Post by: carlos123 on September 21, 2022, 10:48:47 PM
(https://www.watson.ch/imgdb/16ce/Qx,A,0,0,2000,1223,833,509,333,203/5077242102750431)

That is the massage that Chamaco craves.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: LarryBnDC on September 22, 2022, 12:54:17 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on September 19, 2022, 02:18:02 PM
Judge Cannon, Senate confirmation hearings

 
https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Cannon%20Responses%20to%20QFRs1.pdf

Approved by TWELVE Democrats.

She is a Federalist hack...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 22, 2022, 01:23:56 AM
She is a poster child for the literacy crisis in this country, as are most members of the GOP.

It is god that important decisions are being swiftly taken out of her hands and adjudicated by at least somewhat responsible adults.

The thing that gives me hope for the Wiz pick conveying is Monte Morris. Their rookie is going to be terrible.
Title: Daily Poop
Post by: chipstern on September 22, 2022, 02:45:26 PM
* Celtics coach Ime Udoka facing suspension, and possibly considering quitting, over fallout from a consensual intimate affair with a fellow Celtic official. 

Huh.

* Celtics bringing Luka Samanic to camp.

Stretch 4 two-way who was tearing up the G League for Westcehster when plantar fasciatis and other foot/leg issues sidelined him.  Dropped and replaced by Feron Hunt as our second two-way player. 

* The Utah Jazz have agreed to trade veteran forward Bojan Bogdanovic to the Detroit Pistons in exchange for center Kelly Olynyk and 23-year-old point guard Saben Lee. 

Pistons have Isaiah Stewart, Marvin Bagley, Jalen Duren, Nerlens Noel at the 4 & 5 spots, and now have Bogdanovic to go with Alec Burks, Sadiq Bey, Kevin Knox in their wings rotation.  And of course, Cunningham and Ivey and Killian Hayes in the back court.  And leave us not forget Kemba Walker. 

Worth noting, Olnyk played for Ainge in Boston, and he offloaded him to Miami to make salary cap room for Kyrie.  He has 12 million guaranteed for 2022-23 and 2023-24. 

Pistons have a fair number of team options and expiring deals going into next summer, including, Burks, Noel, Walker, Hamidou Diallo, Corey Joseph, potentially totalling like $40 million coming off the books.  Nice re-build afoot.  Doubt if their #1 will convey in 2023, but they are moving on up the food chain, with a nice core of youth and a good coach. 
Title: Here Comes The Judge
Post by: chipstern on September 22, 2022, 07:02:11 PM
How perfect would it be if Judge tied Maris tonight against the Red Sox.

(https://c.tenor.com/cnw3PxICIHYAAAAC/judge-aaron-judge.gif)

Roger did it against the Red Sox, did he not.  Tracy Stallard as I recall. 

Title: Ray Marcano
Post by: Kam on September 23, 2022, 12:58:12 PM
After coming to the Knicks via trade in 2003-2004, Marbury immediately made an impact. He played 46 games that season and scored more than 30 points seven times, including 42 against the LA Clippers. Despite the team's 39-43 record, he led the Knicks to the playoffs as a No. 7 seed. The then New Jersey Nets wiped out the Knicks in four games.

But hey, no problem. The team would have Marbury, their star, for a full season, and that would surely make a difference. He was still in that fan/media honeymoon phase.

That would soon end. In the 2004-2005 season --- his first full one in the Garden --- stories began appearing about Marbury's moodiness, abrasiveness, and reputation for being selfish.

His problems with teammates continued. Kurt Thomas didn't hide his dislike for Marbury. They argued on the bench during a game and then had a fistfight in the locker room. The team went through two more coaches that season, firing Lenny Wilkins after he started the season 17-22 and handing the wreck of a team to poor Herb Williams (16-27). It's kind of surprising that the Knicks won 33 games that season, given all the mess.

In need of a new coach, the Knicks got Knicksy and hired Larry Brown because they needed yet another person on the bench who had a bad relationship with Marbury.

The two didn't get along when during their time on the disappointing 2004 Summer Olympic squad. Marbury criticized Brown's coaching style, and Brown reportedly wanted Marbury off the team.

Obviously, that made Brown the perfect candidate for the job -- he said sarcastically.

The friction carried into the 2005-06 regular season, with Brown publicly criticizing Marbury and the two not talking. Marbury's uneven performance and sullen mood quickly soured Knicks fans who started booing the star player.

And now the circumstances burst into full view. Here's an example of what was a friendly conversation between the two:

Brown: "So, you're the best guard in the league, and the team is 17-45, yeah, it's the coach's fault."

Marbury: "I think it's personal now."

So the Knicks went 23-59, and Brown lasted one season. And guess what? The Knicks held on to Marbury.

What happened next? Insanity (not Linsanity. That was the fun one). Thomas took over as coach, with owner James Dolan mandating he fix the team or else.

Or else won.

The next two seasons were soap opera at its best. Marbury and Thomas feuded (how surprising!). At the start of the 2007-08 season, in November, Marbury went AWOL after learning he would lose his starting job to a young player, Mardy Collins. Marbury had elective surgery on his ankle in January 2008 and continued his spats with Thomas, reportedly becoming angered at any perceived slight. The fans booed, the media hissed, and finally, mercifully, the Knicks bought out and waived Marbury on February 24, 2009.

So that was a long-winded preamble. What does it all mean?

Circumstance.

It's not fair to compare Randle's personality to Marbury's. Randle has not fought teammates (as far as we know), hasn't outwardly feuded with his veteran coach (as far as we know), and hasn't lost the respect of his teammates (as far as we know).

But look at the other circumstances.

-The Knicks brought in Marbury and his bloated contract because they needed (wanted) a star. Fans and the media cheered. The Knicks brought in Randle not thinking he'd be a star but on the face of one career year, signed him a massive contract. Fans and the media cheered.

-Marbury was a bad fit on a bad team, with too many shoot-first guards. Randle is a bad fit on a mediocre team because he clogs the lane with Mitch and RJ.

-The Garden crowd booed Marbury often, and it affected his play and attitude. We've all seen what's happened with Randle, his body language, and the dejected way he sometimes leaves the court.

Here's where the circumstances can diverge.

The Knicks waited too long to move on from Marbury and then couldn't find a trade because of his onerous contract, deteriorating play, and bad attitude.

The Knicks, apparently, could trade Randle if they take pennies on the dollar and/or attach an appealing asset.

If the Knicks start losing, the fans will turn their ire on the team's highest-paid and most polarizing player. As soon as Randle does his signature move --- back in two steps, fake left, fake right, fade away and clank off the front rim --- the boos will start, followed by the Obi chants. This will make Tom Thibodeau's job harder, as he's supposedly already told confidants that he can't get Randle to play unselfishly.

A player with questions about his attitude, the ability to play within the team, booing fans, bad body language, and a young player behind him? We have the mix of circumstances just as we did last decade.

We see what happened when the Knicks refused to move then.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 23, 2022, 02:12:22 PM
The Knicks, apparently, could trade Randle if they take pennies on the dollar and/or attach an appealing asset.



heh

no doubt

roll the Toppin dice.....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 23, 2022, 02:13:21 PM
BIG THREE 2024

Brunson
Barrett
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Obi Fuckin Topin
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 23, 2022, 02:17:36 PM
A player with questions about his attitude, the ability to play within the team, booing fans, bad body language, and a young player behind him? We have the mix of circumstances just as we did last decade.

We see what happened when the Knicks refused to move then.


Randle has won here

Marbury - not so much
Title: Cite Your Sources
Post by: chipstern on September 23, 2022, 02:21:58 PM
"...Thibs has already told confidants."

[Marc Berman?  January 30, 2022?] 

Title: Celtics
Post by: chipstern on September 23, 2022, 03:21:59 PM
YIKES

Think we've only scratched the surface on the Ime Udoka narrative.  Pretty crappy way to head into training camp...

Meanwhile, not enough that Gallinari just had ACL surgery, now Robert Williams is out 8-12 weeks with a surgical procedure on his left knee.  Odd that this was not dealth with this past spring.  Guess they figured it would work itself out with rest. 

PS: Matt Barnes says that after finding out the details regarding the situation involving Ime Udoka in Boston that it is deep, it is messy and it is 100 times uglier than any of us thought.  DAMN. 

PPS: Conjecture coming out of Boston is that having just finished giving Donald Trump a reach around, Aileen Cannon went down on Udoka, citing legal precendets for serving powerful men.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 23, 2022, 03:32:31 PM
Shaming someone's mom and someone's wife, Chip.  Sad.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 23, 2022, 03:33:42 PM
Celts in fine hands with their new coach, by the way.  Hearing Vogel (Stevens cronie) may be joining him soon.
Title: Aileen Cannon Fodder
Post by: chipstern on September 23, 2022, 03:48:59 PM
Aileen Cannon

Tastes Great

Less Filling
Title: Leon Rose Announces Latest Knick Free Agent Signing
Post by: chipstern on September 23, 2022, 06:42:29 PM
(https://scontent-lga3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/308815094_10224823328584526_2005785310245674569_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=eY7codr6ZYgAX9mq_-z&tn=xl05267qLY6AVrGm&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-2.xx&oh=00_AT83zqtcrd5DeX_XFue6pTtExmB0bRj1GQsA-ly_qhUmWQ&oe=633250AE)

Leon Rose Talks With Alan Hahn On MSG At 8:00PM Tonight

Repeat at 8:30


Title: Re: Aileen Cannon Fodder
Post by: facilitatorn on September 23, 2022, 11:21:10 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 23, 2022, 03:48:59 PM
Aileen Cannon

Tastes Great

Less Filling

There is no way to shame her worse than she shames herself when she tries to articulate her understanding of the law. That is always a complete and total embarrassment to herself, her gender, her party, her race, religion, and entire nationality.

She blows chumps and she blows chunks. That is all she knows how to do.
Title: WE SHALL SEE [Come Tuesday, Thibs' Clean Slate]
Post by: chipstern on September 24, 2022, 04:08:10 PM
We Shall See.

Leon Rose was touting our talent, our continuity, our stability, our youth...our coach. 

It has been a long time, a long damn time, since we had a consistent cast of characters for more than a season at a time; since we procurred and nurtured a core of youth; since we reupped any of our homegrown players; since we avoided going all in and mortgaging our future in pursuit of "superstars" and "shiny objects."

Come Tuesday, we can hopefully move on from Donovan Mitchell remonstrations, and dipsticks like Stepehn A.  moaning about how we HAVE TO HAVE A SUPERSTAR. 

Uh huh. 

Name ONE.  Name ONE that is up for grabs on the open market? 

Leon said we decided to move on. 

WE SHALL SEE. 

Last summer we [well, ME, anyway] were excited about Kemba Walker coming home, and reupping our vets. 

Well, now Kemba is gone, as are Taj and Nerlens and Alec. 

Leon says there are no edicts from on high for Thibs.

But he has surely been dealt a hand awash in youth. 

Who are our "VETS" then?

Derrick Rose
Evan Fournier
Julius Randle

For that matter

Jalen Brunson
Mitchell Robinson
RJ Barrett

Think we can safely pencil them into Thibs rotation.

And from there?

WE SHALL SEE
Title: Re: Aileen Cannon Fodder
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 24, 2022, 04:30:01 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 23, 2022, 11:21:10 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 23, 2022, 03:48:59 PM
Aileen Cannon

Tastes Great

Less Filling

There is no way to shame her worse than she shames herself when she tries to articulate her understanding of the law. That is always a complete and total embarrassment to herself, her gender, her party, her race, religion, and entire nationality.

She blows chumps and she blows chunks. That is all she knows how to do.

As usual Fac with zero detail in a rebuttal post.

Empty head.  Empty script.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 25, 2022, 02:31:07 AM
A crooked fraud has has no rights to government documents even if he lied his way into the top job in government and held it for a little while. In the cases where former guys had crooked less, their successors could and did give them access to those documents to refresh their memories for their forthcoming memoirs, but those documents were always property of the United States. 

There was no legal reason to pause the prosecution of the crooked fraud. There is nothing for a special master to decide. The documents recovered in the search are the property of the people in care of their government. The fat fraudulent crook possessing the documents is in itself a severe crime that should swiftly yield incredibly long periods of incarceration for the lying sleaze bag and all his twisted slimy coconspirators.

All the delays and diversions are in clear contravention of the law. This is why everyone involved, from the appellate court to the special master is working to quickly correct the many stupid mistakes of awful judge Cannon so this country can continue to exist under the rule of law as opposed to the rule of assholes which you have made clear you prefer.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 25, 2022, 01:06:52 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 25, 2022, 02:31:07 AM
A crooked fraud has has no rights to government documents even if he lied his way into the top job in government and held it for a little while. In the cases where former guys had crooked less, their successors could and did give them access to those documents to refresh their memories for their forthcoming memoirs, but those documents were always property of the United States. 

There was no legal reason to pause the prosecution of the crooked fraud. There is nothing for a special master to decide. The documents recovered in the search are the property of the people in care of their government. The fat fraudulent crook possessing the documents is in itself a severe crime that should swiftly yield incredibly long periods of incarceration for the lying sleaze bag and all his twisted slimy coconspirators.

All the delays and diversions are in clear contravention of the law. This is why everyone involved, from the appellate court to the special master is working to quickly correct the many stupid mistakes of awful judge Cannon so this country can continue to exist under the rule of law as opposed to the rule of assholes which you have made clear you prefer.

Word
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 25, 2022, 05:27:33 PM
heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 25, 2022, 06:05:07 PM
More down the middle reporting on the matter:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/special-master-simple-test-may-184449320.html
Title: Rebuttal?
Post by: carlos123 on September 25, 2022, 07:05:58 PM
Quote from: chamAAcocartero8 on September 24, 2022, 04:30:01 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 23, 2022, 11:21:10 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 23, 2022, 03:48:59 PM
Aileen Cannon

Tastes Great

Less Filling

There is no way to shame her worse than she shames herself when she tries to articulate her understanding of the law. That is always a complete and total embarrassment to herself, her gender, her party, her race, religion, and entire nationality.

She blows chumps and she blows chunks. That is all she knows how to do.

As usual Fac with zero detail in a rebuttal post.


Rebuttal of what?

So far, you have only made your usual standard argument defending that sad sham judge, that is

Quote from: chamacocartero8 on September 25, 2022, 05:27:33 PM
heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 26, 2022, 10:32:42 AM
I always get a kick out of when a member of this forum says we are DONE adding guys.  Then we add a Mychaliuk - and now.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jalen_Harris


https://nevadasportsnet.com/news/reporters/born-for-this-jalen-harris-path-to-stardom-started-early-but-wasnt-easy

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 26, 2022, 01:09:01 PM
Interesting....

Kemba Walker will not attend Pistons camp - but they will not release him til he finds another home.

Class move by DET.
Title: Buff As A MF
Post by: chipstern on September 26, 2022, 05:31:36 PM
Derrick
Rose
Title: Rose!
Post by: elephant on September 26, 2022, 06:54:56 PM
Yeah, that guy is something else. Uncommon desire and commitment.

Glad we got him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 27, 2022, 01:07:07 PM
Check.

One main difference between Thibs' last  2 active rosters.  A healthy DR.
Title: Lonzo
Post by: chipstern on September 27, 2022, 04:47:58 PM
Looking like Lonzo Ball may miss the entire 2022-23 season. 
Title: Thibs Speaketh
Post by: chipstern on September 27, 2022, 04:53:19 PM
Ian Begley

Tom Thibodeau is asked about the starting shooting guard spot

With Jalen with RJ with Julius we need shooting

When asked about it Thibodeau says Evan Fournier is front-runner to start at SG entering training camp
Title: Your New York Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 27, 2022, 05:00:16 PM
(https://scontent-lga3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/307276993_10163378209224616_8654803666074370162_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=JznoEFdfIW8AX_7eSZD&tn=xl05267qLY6AVrGm&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-2.xx&oh=00_AT8cHp1njcxQdL1oJtb5OTFfGvPCemAojyf-oLI-vNJvcQ&oe=6337DD2B)

(https://scontent-lga3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/308500187_10163378209219616_3125590088151286736_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=DR-kwU8T5h4AX_5mH59&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-2.xx&oh=00_AT8s9V3E1wR89_Lw8s4hyW2aez_GCBrW_TFMUJDYE7_LBg&oe=633933F6)
Title: Hmmmm
Post by: chipstern on September 27, 2022, 05:17:30 PM
Aaron Brooks

Veteran NBA point guard; pretty good 3-Pt & FT shooter.  Was bench cnady for Thibs during the winning 2017-17 Wolves campaign. 

Othella Harrington

Georgetown PF-C who played for the Knicks from 2000-2004. 

For those bemoaning the Knicks not gutting their core of youth or draft assets for Donovan Mitchell, bless his heart, it is worth remembering the Knicks willingness to wily nily trade draft picks.

They traded their #27 pick to the Vancouver Grizzleis for Harrington, then 27 years old, which became point guard Jamal Tinsley. 

With the #28 pick, the San Anotnio Spurs selected 19 year old point guard TONY PARKER, who went on to win multiple rings over a distinguished 17-year career. 

And who made that forward-looking tactical decision?

Why, the legendary Scott Layden. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 27, 2022, 08:04:53 PM
Othella  was a good player.  A year prior he was dealt to Vancouver for the young stud Steve Francis when Stevie refused to play for Grizz  .  Career was on a nice trajectory.
Title: Re: Hmmmm
Post by: carlos123 on September 27, 2022, 10:26:16 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 27, 2022, 05:17:30 PM

And who made that forward-looking tactical decision?

Why, the legendary Scott Layden.

Chamacos favorite GM.
Title: Evan Fournier
Post by: chipstern on September 28, 2022, 01:14:38 PM
Evan will be 30 at the end of October. 

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/f/fournev01.html (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/f/fournev01.html)

From what I can discern, his best season was at 27 in 2019-20, when he was listed as a SF for Orlando, averaging 18.5 ppg-2.6 reb-3.2 assists over 31.5 minutes a game, getting to the charity stripe 3.3 times a game, and converting at an .818% clip.   

By comparison, in his maiden voage as a Knick, at the age of 29, he averaged 29.5 minute a night over 80 games, but minus a PG to aid his game, all of his stats were down.  He only got to the line on an average of 1.4 times a game, converting at a .708 clip, the lowest of his career.  He did convert 241 of 669 3-pointers, a Knick record, at a .389% clip. 

Fournier seems like a stand-up guy, and he never backed away from the glare or refused to own his faux pas for a crummy start to the season, and one has to admire his tenacity and leadership as captain of the French National Team. 

(https://heavy.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/GettyImages-1367457967-e1647503047590.jpg?quality=65&strip=all&w=780)

Time to bring it for the Knicks.  Have to figure, well hope anyway, that the arrival of Brunson, the presence of a healthy Derrick Rose, and the competiton of 22 year old Quentin Grimes [who needs to signifcantly improve his own FT shooting] nipping away at his arse, will benefit Brother Fournier.  But he HAS TO get to the FT line with considerably more frequency, not simply spotting up for treys, and convert at over 80%.  His evolution as a Knick is a key storyline for 2022-23. 


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 28, 2022, 01:29:48 PM
Seasoned international stud vs talented understudy

The story has been told over the course of history - other than the finest superstuds, the young guys wait.  But yes, it is nice to know that Grimes did so well in his five starts last season - in case he is needed there.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on September 28, 2022, 03:40:37 PM
Ten guys in the coaching staff.

What the fuck do most of them do?

What is a "Two-way Liaison? What are your days like as "Assistant Director of Player Development?" How much dough do they make?

I just can't quite imagine.
Title: 61
Post by: chipstern on September 28, 2022, 10:25:44 PM
(https://www.gannett-cdn.com/authoring/2011/07/20/NFTU/ghows-LK-ee52c910-c77d-4665-827f-f24b6093a9da-7065189b.jpeg?width=660&height=587&fit=crop&format=pjpg&auto=webp)

(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/lWaypHzPXexvcNHzBmzHV-L_GDQ=/0x0:3799x2659/1200x800/filters:focal(1809x916:2415x1522)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/71428853/usa_today_13364120.0.jpg)
Title: Patrick Beverley
Post by: chipstern on September 28, 2022, 10:45:33 PM
Could the Lakers have possibly brought on a more perfect fit.

What A Competitor.  REAL LEADERSHIP. 

Everyone accountable. 

DAMN.  Why didn't you trade for him, Facil.  Really sullies your record. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 29, 2022, 02:09:50 PM
I like him for that team, sure.  Like Dennis as well.   They were going to be much better this year regardless.  Eyes on HAM.
Title: Grimes
Post by: chipstern on September 29, 2022, 02:53:54 PM
In a walking boot.
Title: Re: Grimes
Post by: chipstern on September 29, 2022, 07:30:39 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 29, 2022, 02:53:54 PM
In a walking boot.

Fournier resting. 

Thibs says neither is a big deal. 
Title: Thibs
Post by: chipstern on September 29, 2022, 07:44:21 PM
Thibs is THIBS. 

He has an approach and a culture. 

Third year, same coach. 

Meanwhile in WET YOUR PANTS LAND. 

What did Spiro Agnew say?  NATTERING NABOBS OF NEGATIVITY?  Pretty good for a No Lo Contendre Felon. 

In any event, out in the blogosphere, and in FACEBOOK postings, Knicks' "Fans" once again distinguishing themselves as some of the most relentlessly dreary motherfuckers on the planet. 

Trade Them.

Fire Him.

We SUCK. 

Sigh. 

As for our coach? 

There is much to admire and respect, and elsewise, stuff to give one pause. 

A mixed grille of earthly delights. 

STILL, a relentless drone of FIRE TOM THIBODEAU. 

Sigh. 

Love him or leave him, there is something to be said for a culture and a system, for continuity and stability. 

We here on this forum are going to be debating the merits and faux pas of Tom Thobodeau in due course.  This coming Tuesday night, we tee off against the upstart Pistons.  Kemba is not in camp.  Burks is hurting.  Might we see Noel?  I am really curious about Ivey and Duren.  And Cunningham.  They look to be a feisty brood of young jackals. 

Be that as it may...

THIBS. 

As the opening shot across the bow in this forum debate, allow me to note that for someone who "hates" kids, Thibs HAS a SYSTEM, HAS made some strides in player development and I mean, FIRE THIBS

Fuck You. 

I'm not saying he ain't on the clock--EVERYONE IS ON THE CLOCK since JVG left town. 

However, since Van Gundy bolted, it is worth noting that there are only TWO COACHES in the past twenty years who possess a cumulative winning record, and who have ANY playoff wins. 

Mike Woodson
Tom Thibodeau

Just saying. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on September 29, 2022, 09:04:23 PM
See more positive than negative in our fans as far as win total.  Most have the OVER on 39.5 wins - and most of those WELL over (43+)
Title: Re: Thibs
Post by: carlos123 on September 29, 2022, 10:39:31 PM
Fuck Thibs.

Oh, and fire him, too.
Title: Re: Thibs
Post by: chipstern on September 30, 2022, 10:03:38 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on September 29, 2022, 10:39:31 PM
Fuck Thibs.

Oh, and fire him, too.

And who is.your new coach?
Title: C'mon, you know who Carlos wants!
Post by: lesterluv on September 30, 2022, 10:29:18 AM
(https://external-preview.redd.it/49tXHZmgwPq-6gJQ5EzCtQwqj3UOcPPCVMdFPP4Gq1c.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=dde7467d2f1a16e154e5b1a4f0035f1eb39067e0)
Title: Re: C'mon, you know who Carlos wants!
Post by: chipstern on September 30, 2022, 01:57:08 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on September 30, 2022, 10:29:18 AM
(https://external-preview.redd.it/49tXHZmgwPq-6gJQ5EzCtQwqj3UOcPPCVMdFPP4Gq1c.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=dde7467d2f1a16e154e5b1a4f0035f1eb39067e0)

Assistant Coach

Wizards

And your second choice?
Title: Re: C'mon, you know who Carlos wants!
Post by: carlos123 on September 30, 2022, 03:08:29 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 30, 2022, 01:57:08 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on September 30, 2022, 10:29:18 AM
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AL9nZEUls3GrwVcVh-ruihB5DXxY7FKiSiYLzxkZP1I6LjiR7un7-eSyilFn72Mhd_XsLhE_V9m2gvqbhAysps7OYg7g_nDagRkPyp4ky1d8t0dKuw-AZ5bYprmvbXKaP8lAK8hO8tP1y_fp_n9xEE0sadl3=w595-h757-no?authuser=0)
NICE DOGGIE!

Assistant Coach

Wizards

Q- And your second choice?

A- Fac, with Chip as his assistant.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 30, 2022, 03:30:22 PM
Not
Feeling
You

PS: Becky Hammond
Title: Reverse positions
Post by: carlos123 on September 30, 2022, 10:17:53 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 30, 2022, 03:30:22 PM
Not
Feeling
You

PS: Becky Hammond

Ok, how about Chip with Fac Assistant Coach?
Title: Thibs It Is
Post by: chipstern on October 01, 2022, 04:12:17 AM
(https://cdn.statically.io/img/blazepress.com/.image/c_fit,h_600,w_600/MTI4OTg2NTg4MjkzMTQxNzc4/tumblr_md1295kofg1qhov1lo1_500.gif?quality=100&f=auto)
Title: Trending [A Thibian HeadScratcher]
Post by: chipstern on October 01, 2022, 04:27:26 AM
(https://media1.giphy.com/media/5SW8f1AaiSOypV3On1/200w.gif?cid=82a1493bjixegksq9231p9859biv5hk4slzvp5iefu096xkm&rid=200w.gif&ct=g)

Robinson-Randle-RJ-Fournier-Brunson

Hartenstein-Toppin-Grimes-IQ-Rose

Reddish-Sims-McBride

(https://community.ebay.com/ebay01/attachments/ebay01/selling-db/1560573/1/5d0261463824e62cf4048c6d.gif)



Trevor Keels [2-way], Feron Hunt [2-way], Svi Mykhailiuk, Ryan Arcidiacono, DeQuan Jeffries, Jalen Harris
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 02, 2022, 12:15:47 PM
Robinson-Randle-RJ-Fournier-Brunson

Hartenstein-Toppin-Grimes-IQ-Rose

Reddish-Sims-McBride


Somone finally has it right
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 02, 2022, 02:19:35 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 02, 2022, 12:15:47 PM
Robinson-Randle-RJ-Fournier-Brunson

Hartenstein-Toppin-Grimes-IQ-Rose

Reddish-Sims-McBride


Somone finally has it right

No idea what you mean here. This has always been the expected lineup.

(first and second teams)

Yeah, I'd prefer Grimes in the first crew....but we'll see.
Title: Re: Thibs
Post by: elephant on October 02, 2022, 02:31:05 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 29, 2022, 07:44:21 PM
Thibs is THIBS. 

He has an approach and a culture. 

Third year, same coach......

I'm not part of the "Fire Thib" movement you're talking about. I get his strong points.

But when you defend the dude, you skip totally over how bad his performance was last year. It wasn't his fault he more or less lost two point guards, but his failure to adjust is undeniable. His use of Burks didn't work...but he stuck with it.

And together with Julius Ball (also his responsibility), the Knicks has the most predictable offense in the NBA.

You note Thibs has done better than most of his predecessors. That's a low bar! And many of those guys had far crappier teams than what Thibs was given.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 02, 2022, 02:34:29 PM
Burks was our best perimeter guy last year.  I sur hope there aren't pangs of "we sure miss Alec" like when we were missing Payton.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 02, 2022, 02:37:45 PM
I love Burks!

He was a huge component of our success the year before.

But you gotta put someone in a position to succeed. And I don't think he was used right last year. It was depressing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 02, 2022, 02:38:15 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 02, 2022, 02:34:29 PM
Burks was our best perimeter guy last year.  I sur hope there aren't pangs of "we sure miss Alec" like when we were missing Payton.

Who missed Payton?

(crickets)
Title: Crickets
Post by: chipstern on October 02, 2022, 04:11:39 PM
Payton's offense, particularly his jump shooting was a nightmare, but he defended and was an actual PG.   

We can all second guess Thibs for not entrusting the offense to McBride and Quickley, and I thought he should have rolled the dice, but no sense crying over spilt milk.  But I would chastise Neon Leon as much for his roll of the dice with Kemba, and for passing on Haliburton to pick Obi [though at the time, one can imagine the "brain trust" was projecting Julius being in the final year of his 2+ 1 audition deal]. 

I agree about the stodgy, predictable nature of the offense, with Burks as a Faux Point Guard and Julius as a Stodgy Point Forward. 

Again, old news. 

(https://c.tenor.com/7Mvx7Pbd6DIAAAAd/jalen-brunson-layup.gif)

We shall see what we shall see on Tuesday night, but smoke signals coming out of Tarrytown suggest that we have an ample supply of functional point guards, and that Thibs is looking to up the tempo, play with more pace, and relieve Julius of Point Forward duties, least ways, not task him with running the damn offense. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 02, 2022, 05:34:25 PM
Quote from: elephant on October 02, 2022, 02:38:15 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 02, 2022, 02:34:29 PM
Burks was our best perimeter guy last year.  I sur hope there aren't pangs of "we sure miss Alec" like when we were missing Payton.

Who missed Payton?

(crickets)

Anyone who pined for solid PG play.  (Many just didnt realize it.  You, I guess included)
Title: names you never need to bring up
Post by: lesterluv on October 02, 2022, 06:25:26 PM
Solid point guard play my fat ass.
That #$% was unwatchable. 9 out of 10 Knick fans couldn't stand him. The other 10% are born imbeciles.

Nobody misses that M'Fer.
Nobody will miss him in Phoenix either, they'd boo his ass the moment he stepped in the game.

F'er was completely unplayable at any serious level. The Hawks didn't even check his ass in the playoffs cause they knew.
China ..or maybe Venezuela beckons this season.

Jeezus...

Elfrid mf'n Payton..lol, lol, lol...good god...

I don't even think his tweet-happy mom misses him anymore.

And his "D" was waaaaaay overrated.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 02, 2022, 06:37:30 PM
A wonderful talent.   Eight years in the league and still just 28.  Played collegiately at age 17.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 02, 2022, 06:48:07 PM
2021

Knicks win 16 of final 20 games, Payton playing 18 minutes per.

So he gets 8, then 5 minutes the first 2 playoff game (Knicks go 1-1) and is BENCHED the rest of the series vs ATL as Trae Young goes for 29-10 over the 5 games (1-4 and not close).

Heh.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 02, 2022, 06:51:14 PM
We shall see what we shall see on Tuesday night, but smoke signals coming out of Tarrytown suggest that we have an ample supply of functional point guards, and that Thibs is looking to up the tempo, play with more pace, and relieve Julius of Point Forward duties, least ways, not task him with running the damn offense.

So Thibs is CHANGING the offense smewhat?  We'll see.

Wonder why Brunson didnt take number 13 here.  Or his dad's #9.
Title: Watching Elf Play Hurt Your Eyeballs So Bad
Post by: lesterluv on October 03, 2022, 10:06:59 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 02, 2022, 06:48:07 PM
2021

Knicks win 16 of final 20 games, Payton playing 18 minutes per.


lol, you are such a fucking ass-clown, an ass-clown without a memory.
Payton had very little to do with that finish.
In fact, he was playing fewer and fewer minutes with every passing game.

A reduction that contributed greatly to that red hot finish.

Played 18 minutes OR MORE once in the last dozen games.
Played 18 or less just once in the first 45.

Folks were screaming for Thibs to make the change and pull his ass from the starting lineup BEFORE the playoffs began.
Eye test was easy. The less he played, the better we played.
Thibs was stubborn, didn't do the necessary even as he reduced Elf's role day-by-day.
By the time he finally got pulled for good v. Atlanta, looked like a zombie on the floor, mentally broken, barely there, wandering around lost like a drunk hobo, Thibs had done him no favors.
Needless to say, that WONDERFUL TALENT never played a minute in a Knick uni again, thank the good lord!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 03, 2022, 10:19:03 AM
24 hours til Knick preseason starts and people are talking about Elfrid M'Fn Payton.


jeez....



*** Wasn't my boy Bo a big Elfrid fan? Too bad he's dead, would probably get the chance to see him play in person this year.
Title: ScapeGoatsAreUS
Post by: chipstern on October 03, 2022, 01:13:36 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on October 03, 2022, 10:19:03 AM
24 hours til Knick preseason starts and people are talking about Elfrid M'Fn Payton.


jeez....



*** Wasn't my boy Bo a big Elfrid fan? Too bad he's dead, would probably get the chance to see him play in person this year.

Eagerly Awaiting Who Dawg Annoints As His PissBoyScapeGoat For 2022-23.   
Title: Marbury Classics Vol. 365
Post by: lesterluv on October 03, 2022, 02:20:25 PM
"I know I'm used to being the escape goat, but damn, c'mon - when is enough gonna be enough?

(https://images.fineartamerica.com/images/artworkimages/mediumlarge/3/stephon-marbury-ron-hoskins.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 03, 2022, 02:34:14 PM
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/70/90/ca/7090ca1f92809e985aefff866ca2ba17.jpg)
Title: Re: ScapeGoatsAreUS
Post by: lesterluv on October 03, 2022, 02:36:02 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 03, 2022, 01:13:36 PM

Eagerly Awaiting Who Dawg Annoints As His PissBoyScapeGoat For 2022-23.

To qualify as a lesterdawg PissyBoyEscapeGoat for 2022-23, one must receive bucketfulls of eyeball scorching undeserved starter's minutes for an excruciatingly long time while more qualified, winning-type folks sit and wither. So, unless Thibs really surprises us, there are really only five possibilities in order of likelihood:

1a Julius Randlee*
1b RJ Barrett
3. French Guy
4. Mitch
5. JB

* the extra "e" is for extra pee

I'm not predicting anybody is gonna be PBEG, the above just hints at possibilities.
Title: Re: ScapeGoatsAreUS
Post by: chipstern on October 03, 2022, 03:39:36 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on October 03, 2022, 02:36:02 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 03, 2022, 01:13:36 PM

Eagerly Awaiting Who Dawg Annoints As His PissBoyScapeGoat For 2022-23.

To qualify as a lesterdawg PissyBoyEscapeGoat for 2022-23, one must receive bucketfulls of eyeball scorching undeserved starter's minutes for an excruciatingly long time while more qualified, winning-type folks sit and wither. So, unless Thibs really surprises us, in order of likelihood:

1a Julius Randlee*
1b RJ Barrett
3. French Guy
4. Mitch
5. JB

* the extra "e" is for extra pee

I'm not predicting anybody is gonna be PBEG, the above just hints at possibilities.

You have thus annointed our ENTIRE STARTING FIVE as underserving of starters' minutes. 

Duly noted. 

Barclays Beckons

Kyrie Awaits Your Embrace And The Supple Scent Of Your Quivering Loins
Title: Dog Yummy For Kiid
Post by: chipstern on October 03, 2022, 06:22:04 PM
Speaking of quivering loins. 

Well in advance of an anticipated post on summer league heart throb, combo caucassian Matt McClung. 

The Warriors have waived him to make room for Ty Jerome. 

PS: Alas, the Knicks have proferred Villinova NCAA Chamiponship PG and Brunson team mate, Ryan Arcidiacono a $2,298,385 contract [non-guaranteed in some way shape or form as I understand it], so, no apparent roster rung for the feisty McClung. 

PPS: As per Tuesday, Jericho has an achy groin.  Grimes's foot is still hurting, and Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk is dealing with some sort of issues, so a clear path for Cam "Now Or Never" Reddish to make a case for himself as first wing off the bench behind RJ.  Thibs said some nice things about his 6'8" length and athleticism, but noted ominously that he hasn't been hitting his shots.  OOOPS.  Hit while the iron is hot, young talent. 

PPPS: Everyone everywhere on the internet is prepared to toss Thibs off the top of the steel cage of doom, like The Undertaker did to Mankind.  No period of grace before Knicks fans sit on Thibs' face...

Tick-Tock
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 03, 2022, 10:22:06 PM
Too bad who is dead?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 03, 2022, 10:25:14 PM
The Warriors have waived him to make room for Ty Jerome.


Jerome is a nice player.  NCAA champ, like our guy.  Surprised GS was able to nab him.

McClung?  I will stick with Harris, thanks.  Love his (on the court) background.
Title: Re: Patrick Beverley
Post by: facilitatorn on October 04, 2022, 01:44:33 AM
Quote from: chipstern on September 28, 2022, 10:45:33 PM
Could the Lakers have possibly brought on a more perfect fit.

What A Competitor.  REAL LEADERSHIP. 

Everyone accountable. 

DAMN.  Why didn't you trade for him, Facil.  Really sullies your record.

He is OK.

Brunson Rose Quickley McBride Archi
RJ Grimes Fournier

That would have made Beverly our sixth PG and the tenth backcourt only guy on our roster. He is a fine player but we do not need him. Better to hold our fire for a player who will actually get us more wins.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 04, 2022, 02:31:34 AM
It is clear Reddish should start along with Brunson, RJ, a power forward and a center.

Fournier can bench snipe like a swingier Steve Novak or wimpier Doug McDermot.

Alec Burks has value as a winning vet on a good contract. We burnt him to get Noel and Kemba to escape velocity so they are now drifting out of our orbit instead of clogging our cap and the deepest end of our bench. Fournier has no value in any league where he cannot be hidden in a zone. FNT Fournier cest tres bon. NYK Fournier cest vraimont triste.  At least he is not a dick about it. I expect to see him at 10-15 minutes a contest once the rotation stabilizes.

I hope he is ready to cool his heels a while after is strong outing for les blues. I expect that will be most of what is asked of him by our staff this season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 04, 2022, 09:57:50 AM
Program note

Preseason opener tonight vs DET - 7 PM MSG

No Grimes
No Sims (quest.)
No Svi  (quest.)
No Jeffries
Title: Re: ScapeGoatsAreUS
Post by: lesterluv on October 04, 2022, 10:14:14 AM
Quote from: chipstern on October 03, 2022, 03:39:36 PM

You have thus annointed our ENTIRE STARTING FIVE as underserving of starters' minutes. 


I most certainly have not!
Merely pointing out that only starters can be undeserving of starter minutes they receive.
I truly hope they all get exactly what they deserve, and that they all deserve a lot.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 04, 2022, 10:18:00 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 03, 2022, 10:22:06 PM
Too bad who is dead?

Bo, but just presumed, not verified. The Chinese really hate to acknowledge covid fatalities thus have the lowest covid death rate in the world by a factor of a thousand or so
Title: The Reddish Fetish
Post by: elephant on October 04, 2022, 11:26:02 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 04, 2022, 02:31:34 AM
It is clear Reddish should start along with Brunson, RJ, a power forward and a center.


What has Reddish ever done to earn a starting position here?

I hope Reddish plays well! That would be lovely!

But where in the world does this Reddish fetish comes from, that has so many Knicks fans licking their lips?

Where? Measurements of his limbs? Highlights from high school?

IF you have empirical evidence from NBA games to indicate that he's an exceptional talent, share that link!

But until then, ease up on elevating middling NBA players just because you want them to be great.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 04, 2022, 11:28:17 AM
Just one jackalope here is on Reddish

And one straggler (Stern).....sort of enabling the madness.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 04, 2022, 11:40:15 AM
I will say the statline shows promise and I am in no way anti Reddish

49 games at 20 minutes per

36% from deep
90 from the line

the 40% overall FG percentage can be forgiven.  Young player bound to pick that up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 04, 2022, 04:39:30 PM
 Herro deserved to be paid as well, but the value of his contract is debatable.

*Barrett s more valuable to the Knicks and has a higher potential than Herro*,

which makes the contract that New York offered RJ look like a steal in comparison to what Herro received. In a year or two, it will be very interesting to see which deal aged better



hmmmmm

based on what?


https://dailyknicks.com/2022/10/03/tyler-herro-extension-rj-barrett-knicks-better/?a_aid=40179&fbclid=IwAR2ho6Degi1anRK4MBjkTxz5Dn795bWQhkYQNODIesDn5vdiTa0c3jtIuiI
Title: Out For Tonight
Post by: chipstern on October 04, 2022, 05:30:39 PM
Guess who is out for tonight?

Take a wild guess. 

GORDON HAYWARD. 

Quick, let's trade Julius for him.  With Miles Bridges still [?] out, when will such an opportunity present itself. 
Title: Re: The Reddish Fetish
Post by: chipstern on October 04, 2022, 06:10:53 PM
Quote from: elephant on October 04, 2022, 11:26:02 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 04, 2022, 02:31:34 AM
It is clear Reddish should start along with Brunson, RJ, a power forward and a center.


What has Reddish ever done to earn a starting position here?

I hope Reddish plays well! That would be lovely!

But where in the world does this Reddish fetish comes from, that has so many Knicks fans licking their lips?

Where? Measurements of his limbs? Highlights from high school?

IF you have empirical evidence from NBA games to indicate that he's an exceptional talent, share that link!

But until then, ease up on elevating middling NBA players just because you want them to be great.

Fetish?

As you like.

REDDISH FETISH?  Has a certain ring. 

Given that our wings are 6'7" [Fournier], 6'6" [RJ] and 6'5" [Grimes], a true 6'8" wing with a 7'1" wingspan who can defend, get to the rack and convert FTs at a 90% clip represents someone who engenders enthusiasm and deserves to get a long, long look. 

As per your misgivings?  Fair enough. 

In terms of his evolution, Cam's litany of injuries has held him back since entering the league. 

His shooting has been dicey since coming in the league, gradually inching up the board.

Last season for Atlanta, with 11.9 ppg over 23.4 minutes per game, he improved to:

FG%:  4.1   10.1   .402   
3PT%:  1.7 4.5   .379   
2PT%:  2.4 5.6   .421   
FT:       2.1 2.4   .900   
REB:    2.5   
ASS:    1.1   
Steals: 1.0   

Was just starting to redial his jump shot as a Knick when he hurt his shoulder.

Why was I UNDULY EXCITED. 

The grace and ease with which he got to the rack and finished.  His size, wingspan and athleticism. His defense.  He just turned 23 on September 1. 

As for his modest stats last season.  By comparison?

Fournier [14.1 ppg in 29.5 minutes]:

FG%:   5.0 12.1   .417   
3PT%:  3.0 7.7   .389   
2PT%   2.0 4.3   .465   
FT:       1.0 1.4   .708   
REB:    2.6
ASS:    2.1   
Steals: 1.0   

Barrett [20 ppg in 34.5 minutes]

FG%:  7.0   17.1   .408   
3PT%  2.0   5.8   .342   
2PT%  5.0   11.3   .442   
FT:      4.1   5.8   .714   
REB:   5.8   
ASS:   3.0   
Steals:0.6

Grimes [6.0 ppg in 17.1 minutes]

FG%:   2.1 5.1   .404   
3PT%: 1.6    4.1   .381   
2PT%: 0.5    1.0   .500   .
FT:      0.3    0.4   .684   
REB:   2.0   
ASS:   1.0   
Steals: 0.7

Burks [11.7 ppg in 28.6 minutes]

FG%:  3.5   9.0   .391   
3PT%  1.9   4.8   .404   
2PT%  1.6   4.2   .378   
FT:      2.7   3.3   .822   
REB:    4.9   
ASS:    3.0   
Steals: 1.0   

SO...

So do Cam boosters still seem delusional?

PERHAPS we are projecting our own hopes and dreams on the kid, but to assert that there is nothing there?

IN ANY EVENT, he has an opportunity to make a case for himself, starting tonight. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 04, 2022, 06:46:48 PM
The "can defend" is where you lose people, Chip.  We are built on TEAM defending.  Players cannot get lost within this and expect to be on the floor.

"Athletic" is unequal to "plus defender".

But we will all be watching tonight
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 04, 2022, 09:49:16 PM
I think we have a formula for watchable and winning B-ball this season.

It all looked pretty great.

I do not mind Fournier as a token starter whos reentry into the game is highly situational.

No need to lean on anyone past the point where they are efficient this year. That is a very nice change. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 04, 2022, 11:25:06 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 04, 2022, 09:49:16 PM
I think we have a formula for watchable and winning B-ball this season.

It all looked pretty great.

I do not mind Fournier as a token starter whos reentry into the game is highly situational.

No need to lean on anyone past the point where they are efficient this year. That is a very nice change.

One Year Older

One More Year Of Bonding

CONTINUITY

PS: Went from No PointGuards to Jalen, DRose, IQ, Deuce...

PPS:  Jalen stepped right up, stepped right in from the opening possession.

PPPS: Thibs' rotations and disbursement of minutes, mixing first and second units, were very interesting.  Credit The BEARD.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 05, 2022, 12:45:47 AM
Bearded Thibs is like Dark Brandon. The mere mention of either causes wet trembling fear leading to panic in all opponents.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 05, 2022, 02:29:18 AM
So far, by eye test,

Tari Eason is a marginally better player than Jabari Smith who is also pretty good. The rockets did well in the draft and will be even more fun to watch this year.

The Bulls will not miss Lonzo at all while he is on the mend and he will have a hard time cracking their rotation if and when he is cleared to play.
Title: Efficiency
Post by: chipstern on October 05, 2022, 01:41:25 PM
Given...

Pre-Season

Given...

The Pistons [but hey, how about Ivey & Duren]

Given...

Brunson's impact immediate and dramatic. 

JB was 7-9, 2-4 from trey, 5 assists, and took three charges [two to the face].  Loved his aggression in getting to the rack.  dRose only played six minutes, but looked lithe, and hitting his opening trey was a nice sign.  Interesting how much Brunson's game reflects that of Rose. 

More to the point, look at how RJ and Julius performed while basking in his penumbra. 

Very efficient, focused AND relaxed when tasked with less ruddering responsibilities.   

In 23 minutes, RJ had 21 points on 8-14, 3-5 from trey, 2-2 from the FT line, 5 boards, 2 assists, 1 steal, 1 block, 1 turnover.  Played like a LEAD DAWG. 

In 18 minutes, JR had 15 points on 6-10, 2-4 from trey, 6 rebounds, 4 assists, ZERO TURNOVERS, though he had a couple of adventures.  Still taking his pounding, oneONone posture out in the edges, but seemed way more releaxed and focused.  Played like a SECONDARY OPTION DAWG. 

Only pre-season, but Thibs played Obi 22 minutes, and while his trey was way off, still finished 4-9, and more tellingly, 6 rebounds and 3 assists. 

Mitchell was a beast around the rim, with three blocks, but I particularly liked his steal and dribble to the hoop, and while he did not convert, made a drop step and turn move down low, as opposed to his usual lob and slam--eagerly awaiting a peek at his FT shooting and his first jumper.  Hartenstein, nice pickup, Leon...with 7 boards, 2-3 from trey, an assist and 2 steals.  Looked a little lost on D now and again, but fuck me, he is an athletic, authentic Stretch FIVE. 

Thibs playing IQ & Deuce together was an interesting look.  IQ with 13-3-3 and 3 steals.  McBride still doesn't have his jumper dialed in, which is obviously the next step, but obviously, his DEFENSE has gotten Thibs' attention, with 6 fucking steals, 4 boards, 2 assists and a block. 

Cam's opening three was uplifting, though his jumper is still way off, but before he got hurt, was engaged and D-ing up with a board an assist and a block.  His ankle doesn't seem serious, but still made me wince. 

Of the scrubs, Jalen Harris got a long look, a 6'5" guard who converted 17-of-36 treys as a Raptor, pre-suspension, and looks like he might stick, as might Arcidiacono, who look relaxed out there as a shooter and facilitator.   

Anyway, ONLY PRE-SEASON, but Brunson is clearly a DAWG, and a LEAD DAWG at that. 

Seeing the upside of his leadership. 

People still moaning about whiffing on Donovan Mitchell, can suck my big toe and call me Moe.  I'm sure he and Garland are going to be a motherfucker of a back court for the Cavs, but we have our Pride Of Puppies, and again, the continuity of having so many returning players, many of whom, such as RJ and Obi and IQ, that Ainge coveted, and who have CLEARLY put in a summer of work, are happyHappyHAPPY to be KNICKS.

ONLY PRE-SEASON, but a nice vibe, and for the moment, no THIRD QUARTER OF DOOM, Knick On Wood. 

We shall see. 

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/J8PmNC-xyiI/mqdefault.jpg) 

I think it's the beard. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 05, 2022, 01:47:26 PM
Coach Thibs is channeling his inner Woody.

WWMWD?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 05, 2022, 01:51:26 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 05, 2022, 01:47:26 PM
Coach Thibs is channeling his inner Woody.

WWMWD?

Providing cover for his second and third chins. 

WWMWD?

Translate.  Please. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 05, 2022, 04:43:17 PM
Chip loves Deuce.
The Mitchell deal would have opened Deuce minutes
Yet Chip hates the deal.

We will be fine.  But the discussion will linger.

Nice getting a long look at Ivey's talents.  No.  Not quite Russ (as is the comarison).   Westbrook more active and clever at defensive end.
Title: Knicks game at MSG
Post by: Kam on October 05, 2022, 05:24:06 PM
I was just at MSG last week to see the Killers in concert.    (We were terrified just looking up at the Chase bridge, can't imagine jumping around up there)



Last night's win inspired me to spend some money on this team. 

I'll be at the game on Wednesday, October 26, 2022 7:30 PM EDT vs. Charlotte.

Go Knicks!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 05, 2022, 05:56:38 PM
Nice

We should be 2-1 by then
Title: Chip Loves Deuce
Post by: chipstern on October 05, 2022, 06:27:55 PM
I think Donovan Mitchell is a brilliant player. 

But I thought AND CONTINUE TO THINK, that people were projecting too much on him. 

In part, because Rick Pitino was begging us to select him in the draft, and instead Phool Jagoff and Dirt Rambus selected Frank Nitilikina on their way out the door. 

Hey, we could have selected Tyrese Haliburton, who I was pulling for, but we selected Obi Toppin instead. 

What's DONE is DONE. 

Don't misunderstand me, I dig Donovan Mitchell, but the price was too fucking high, and the whole premise that THE KNICKS NEED A STAR, is such specious nonsense. 

THE GRASS IS ALWAYS GREENER?

Sometimes it is NOT. 

Okay, the last time we got lucky in the draft was when we nailed Ewing. 

Otherwise, Indiana chose Chuck Person and we ended up with Kenny Walker. 

Otherwise, GS chose Steph Curry and we ended up with Jordan Hill. 

Otherwise, Minny chose Karl Anthony Towns and we ended up with Porzingis. 

Otherwise, we picked third, and ended up with RJ Barrett, instead of Zion or Ja at 1 & 2, or Hunter and Garland at #4 & 5. 

Well, hard to argue with Zion and Ja, or Kat, but Porzingis and RJ turned out okay. 

During the DONOVAN MITCHELL FEEDING FRENZY, I was horrified at the notion we might offload RJ, let alone RJ and [AND] Obi, IQ and Grimes.  During one of the earliest iterations of trade talks, apparently Mitchell was on the table.  My old friend and Forum Veteran MIRASJA was terrified that we might offlaod Grimes. 

I thought then, and think now, that the LEON MUST GET US A STAR or his reign is a failure, was fevered nonsense. 

SLOW BUT STEADY WINS THE RACE. 

I look at Boston, and I see Tatum, I see Brown, I see Smart, I see Robert Williams.  The originization retained its core of youth and kept that core together, and patiently nurtured that talent.  And that core just kept raising their game. 

Did Ainge pursue STARS?  Ask Bankshot what he thought about Trader Danny's pursuit of Kyrie Irving and Gordon Hayward.  STARS.  Gave up a lot of talent to create cap space and get Kyrie.  TOP DOLLAR for Hayward.  Top Dollar and their homegrown talent in Collier for Kemba.  BLEW UP IN THEIR FACE. 

Hey, this past draft, if we couldn't move up for Ivey, I wanted Jalen Duren. 

Instead we ended up with Brunson and Hartenstein.  Not too shabby, and ironically, turned our #11 draft pick
into multiple picks, one of which became Duren on his way to the Pistons, along with Walker, Noel and Burks to open up cap space for both Brunson AND Hartenstein, as well as Mitchell Robinson. 

Donovan Mitchell OR R.J. Barrett? 

THE GRASS IS ALWAYS GREENER. 

I am sure that Donovan is going to be a terrific match for Garland on the Cavs. 

But R.J. has gotten better every year.  He is only 22, and will continue to get better, if only fucking Knicks fans can can keep their powder dry, and let this fine cognac age in the barrell. 

Homegrown, and now in his fourth year.  Much as Mitchell, now 24, is homegrown and in his fifth year. 

I am much more into trusting the process than, as I have said AD NAUSEUM, in pursuing shiny objects.   

Trading away R.J. and IQ and Grimes would have opened up floor time for Deuce? 

If we didn't trade Deuce to UTAH, which we didn't, and thank goodness for small favors. 

Trading away all of our young players FOR A FUCKING STAR, would have sundered chemistry and continuity, and would have been a bridge too far, one deal too many. 

Would it have supercharged our ascent?

Perhaps.  Mitchell is a special player. 

But R.J. has been trending towards becoming a special player, if only we had remained PATIENT. 

Well, WE REMAINED PATIENT, and got a point guard to supercharge his development.  A point guard who may very well revivify Julius Randle as well. 

PATIENCE, Pilgrims. 

PATIENCE.

As for Deuce?  He ain't stoopid.  Jalen AND Rose are ahead of him in the rotation.  So is IQ, who has two years on him. 

So?  Nothing activates Thibs' salivary reflex like DEFENSE.  Maybe Deuce ain't a by Hoyle lead guard quite yet, his shooting is still dicey, but he is sure making a case for rotation minutes, one way or another.  Thibs was giving him a long look with IQ last night, and they both raised their game and their efficiency.  There are nights Deuce KNOWS WITH BIBLICAL CERTAINTY that he won't play, but there are other nights when he will be a key piece off the bench.  CHARLIE WARD 2.1

As Padre Pat Riley once put it: "I know you are ready, but ARE YOU PREPARED?"

I am fine with our team, and our process, and R.J. is not stoopid.  He knew what was up with the Mitchell talks.  We passed, committed to R.J. and now he has been paid and annointed as a key figure in our future. 

R.J. is up to the challenge, and relishes the opportunity to grow as a KNICK, bleeding orange and blue. 

We ain't THERE yet, and The EAST is a BEAST, but baby steps are fine with me.

ONWARDS. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 05, 2022, 08:06:17 PM
Did Ainge pursue STARS?  Ask Bankshot what he thought about Trader Danny's pursuit of Kyrie Irving and Gordon Hayward.  STARS.  Gave up a lot of talent to create cap space and get Kyrie.  TOP DOLLAR for Hayward.  Top Dollar and their homegrown talent in Collier for Kemba.  BLEW UP IN THEIR FACE.

Appears they did just fine.  You rove the opposite side.  We can take our shot with deals and still be OK if we dont win it all.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 05, 2022, 08:11:17 PM
Completion of NBA Finals team came when they added Horford, added Derrick White.  Added back Daniel Theis.  Dealt young guys, yes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 05, 2022, 08:12:57 PM
Dealt a pick (for Horford) that could have been Q Grimes - and didnt win it all.  Isnt that what you usually critique?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 05, 2022, 09:10:57 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 05, 2022, 01:51:26 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 05, 2022, 01:47:26 PM
Coach Thibs is channeling his inner Woody.

WWMWD?

Providing cover for his second and third chins. 

WWMWD?

Translate.  Please.

Ask yourself

What would Mike Woodson do?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 05, 2022, 09:20:24 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 05, 2022, 08:11:17 PM
Completion of NBA Finals team came when they added Horford, added Derrick White.  Added back Daniel Theis.  Dealt young guys, yes.

They will have to claw their way up through the play in tier this season as the break starts to roll around, if they still have the horses.

Philly and Milwaukee are the only sure contenders in the East.

Feron Hunt should be our starting 3. Cam is too fragile. He should get the backup minutes when healthy. When he is out on the mend, Fournier should get his minutes.

Mitch Hartenstein Sims
Randle Obi
Hunt Reddish Fournier
RJ Grimes Quickley Archidiacino
Brunson McBride Rose

That there is 15. Keels is one two-way. I like Jefferies for the other. I will until and unless someone impresses me more.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 05, 2022, 10:31:12 PM
Agree

Feron is a monster.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 06, 2022, 12:58:27 AM
Something is either very weird here or he is good enough that it is glaringly obvious to anyone.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 06, 2022, 01:32:39 AM
I do not think either one by themselves would do it, but Beverley and Gabriel together definitely make the lakers better. Watch out west.

I would bet Al Horford leads the Celts in plus minus by a country mile.

Fun times.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 06, 2022, 09:53:38 AM
I agree

I like this era of NBA ball.

Good analysis on Sirrius NBA Radio of Wetanyaba (?)- can he stay healthy?  No exceptonally tall "perimeter dribbler" has been able to.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 06, 2022, 12:04:33 PM
Program note - G League Ignite (Wnbanyama) on NBA TV 930 PM.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 06, 2022, 12:42:44 PM
Love this guy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7swBN3qFccU

"I torched Phil Jackson....42 points...in the CBA". 

Calls Phil a racist and Jordan a "chlorox drinker".  Calls for "Scarecrow" Thibs to be gone and MARK to be hired.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 06, 2022, 02:18:39 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 05, 2022, 09:20:24 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 05, 2022, 08:11:17 PM
Completion of NBA Finals team came when they added Horford, added Derrick White.  Added back Daniel Theis.  Dealt young guys, yes.

They will have to claw their way up through the play in tier this season as the break starts to roll around, if they still have the horses.

Philly and Milwaukee are the only sure contenders in the East.

Feron Hunt should be our starting 3. Cam is too fragile. He should get the backup minutes when healthy. When he is out on the mend, Fournier should get his minutes.

Mitch Hartenstein Sims
Randle Obi
Hunt Reddish Fournier
RJ Grimes Quickley Archidiacino
Brunson McBride Rose

That there is 15. Keels is one two-way. I like Jefferies for the other. I will until and unless someone impresses me more.

So you designated Cam the starter. Only he gets hurt, so you figure he needs to get relegated to backup status more or less forever. Cuz he's too "fragile."

Now you want an utterly unproven talent to not only get time for the Knicks but to START at the 3.

Do not quit your day job!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 06, 2022, 03:07:17 PM
Could work...
Title: In The Hunt?
Post by: chipstern on October 06, 2022, 05:16:06 PM
Based on what body of empirical evidence, exactly?  I'm all ears.

Cam too fragile?

He twisted his ankle on the refs' foot.

Not exactly an ACL.
Title: Don't Cook Tonight, Call TANKING DELIGHT
Post by: chipstern on October 06, 2022, 08:14:35 PM
Victor Wembanyama

(https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2022/10/Victor-Wembanyama-4-copy.jpg)

[1:10]

Sweet Merciful Zeus

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvBjpnVLIQo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvBjpnVLIQo)



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 06, 2022, 09:58:52 PM
Quote from: elephant on October 06, 2022, 02:18:39 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 05, 2022, 09:20:24 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 05, 2022, 08:11:17 PM
Completion of NBA Finals team came when they added Horford, added Derrick White.  Added back Daniel Theis.  Dealt young guys, yes.

They will have to claw their way up through the play in tier this season as the break starts to roll around, if they still have the horses.

Philly and Milwaukee are the only sure contenders in the East.

Feron Hunt should be our starting 3. Cam is too fragile. He should get the backup minutes when healthy. When he is out on the mend, Fournier should get his minutes.

Mitch Hartenstein Sims
Randle Obi
Hunt Reddish Fournier
RJ Grimes Quickley Archidiacino
Brunson McBride Rose

That there is 15. Keels is one two-way. I like Jefferies for the other. I will until and unless someone impresses me more.

So you designated Cam the starter. Only he gets hurt, so you figure he needs to get relegated to backup status more or less forever. Cuz he's too "fragile."

Now you want an utterly unproven talent to not only get time for the Knicks but to START at the 3.

Do not quit your day job!!!

I
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 06, 2022, 10:29:36 PM
Looks like you committed the sin of an em-dash or something. Your message has been rendered exquisitely enigmatic.
Title: Truncated post
Post by: carlos123 on October 06, 2022, 11:41:58 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 06, 2022, 09:58:52 PM
Quote from: elephant on October 06, 2022, 02:18:39 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 05, 2022, 09:20:24 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 05, 2022, 08:11:17 PM
Completion of NBA Finals team came when they added Horford, added Derrick White.  Added back Daniel Theis.  Dealt young guys, yes.

They will have to claw their way up through the play in tier this season as the break starts to roll around, if they still have the horses.

Philly and Milwaukee are the only sure contenders in the East.

Feron Hunt should be our starting 3. Cam is too fragile. He should get the backup minutes when healthy. When he is out on the mend, Fournier should get his minutes.

Mitch Hartenstein Sims
Randle Obi
Hunt Reddish Fournier
RJ Grimes Quickley Archidiacino
Brunson McBride Rose

That there is 15. Keels is one two-way. I like Jefferies for the other. I will until and unless someone impresses me more.

So you designated Cam the starter. Only he gets hurt, so you figure he needs to get relegated to backup status more or less forever. Cuz he's too "fragile."

Now you want an utterly unproven talent to not only get time for the Knicks but to START at the 3.

Do not quit your day job!!!

I

Fac possibly meant one or more of the following:

I do not have a day job.
I work at night.
I have a standing offer from carlos to coach the Knicks, either as assistant or head coach.
I am not authorized by carlos to trade or make any personnel decisions, but I hope to make him change his mind.
I do not need a day job because other people work for me.
I love my day job, so why would I quit?
I am a good guy, even if I have crazy ideas about trades and players.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 07, 2022, 02:12:53 PM
Number three definitely. My lawyers and agency say that is fully binding on your end. Just waiting for you to be put in charge of personnel decisions, Los.

Hunt has the talent and play style that works. I have watched four full games against pros I have a league context for where he has gotten decent burn. I want Cam to get run, but first he needs to get right and should build himself up to get more robust. If a player is being folded back into your rotation it is almost always best to start on the reserve side before displacing a starter.

The other choice would be Evan. Hunt does more for us on the floor with length, rim pressure, and cutting and I like Ev torching second units rather than being overmatched by fitter wings.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 07, 2022, 03:33:18 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 07, 2022, 02:12:53 PM
Number three definitely. My lawyers and agency say that is fully binding on your end. Just waiting for you to be put in charge of personnel decisions, Los.

Hunt has the talent and play style that works. I have watched four full games against pros I have a league context for where he has gotten decent burn. I want Cam to get run, but first he needs to get right and should build himself up to get more robust. If a player is being folded back into your rotation it is almost always best to start on the reserve side before displacing a starter.

The other choice would be Evan. Hunt does more for us on the floor with length, rim pressure, and cutting and I like Ev torching second units rather than being overmatched by fitter wings.

(https://cf.ltkcdn.net/handbags/images/std/217645-800x533r1-Coach-Bag-emblem.jpg)
Title: Brunson
Post by: chipstern on October 07, 2022, 08:45:40 PM
Underpaid.
Title: Julius AND Obi
Post by: chipstern on October 07, 2022, 10:07:06 PM
Even split of minutes.

Julius, 15-8-4

Obi, what, 24, 4-7 from trey, a nice drive to the hoop, some insane dunks,  and decent D. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 07, 2022, 10:13:53 PM
Doing what we aught to against cream puffs in preseason. Good signs but let us not get to crazy about it yet.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 07, 2022, 10:15:54 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 07, 2022, 10:13:53 PM
Doing what we aught to against cream puffs in preseason. Good signs but let us not get to crazy about it yet.

Indy has some good players.

They were up after one.

We really took it to them in the second quarter.

PS: That Ukranian cat can really shoot. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 07, 2022, 10:38:15 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 21, 2020, 09:28:25 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 21, 2020, 08:58:36 AM
I fail to see how we trade up, least ways, the price of the Top 3 would seem...daunting.



Yet when I ask if we should offer Knox and/or Frank in a trade up....



crickets.

Maybe because they are so young, and it seems, based on incomplete evidence, a little early to pull the plug, when a new coaching staff and a fresh look awaits.  And really, outside of the Top 3, who has significantly more upside than Knox AND Ntilikina?  Both?  You would.  I would not.   Ball being the prize, right?  Seriously.  Do you think Minny or GS or Charlotte bite?

Blast from the past, as we discussed the upcoming Toppin draft

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 07, 2022, 10:47:09 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on August 24, 2020, 12:35:55 PM
Quote from: bodiddley on August 24, 2020, 12:16:39 PM
Fwiw, Draftnet has Knix taking Avidja at #8, (https://www.nbadraft.net/nba-mock-drafts/) with Vassell going 9.
I'd be happy if we had a choice of those two.

Halliburton has been getting buzz the past week or so, and thy have DET taking him at #7. 

They also have Tre Jones, Malachi Flynn and Cassius Winston all going after our #38 2nd rounder.  Kira Lewis at 26, one spot ahead of our pick, so in our range.

QUICKLEY of Kentucky is a nice player - and Payton Pritchard falling to 45 is a joke.

OKORO or ACHIUWA would be the others I consider at 8 with Avdija the way that mock plays....

and of course a trade down with a look at ANTHONY is also wise.

LEON, what say you?

yep - first forum mention of Immanuel
Title: Someone please
Post by: carlos123 on October 08, 2022, 01:00:36 AM
Give some praise to Chamaco for his almost infinite prescience.
He is really fishing for it.
Have mercy of Chamaco, do not let your stone hearts make you indifferent to his sorry plight.
Fac? Doggie? Chip?
Wont you show some mercy to poor Chamaco?

PS. Chamaco, what happened to your Aileen Cannon?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 08, 2022, 10:33:41 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on August 03, 2021, 11:25:12 PM
So...

Knicks need backcourt talent and we are critiquing Bulls for adding Ball and DeRozen?

heh

heh
Title: Re: Rumor ville and conjecture city
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 08, 2022, 10:38:49 AM
Quote from: Kam on August 04, 2021, 06:26:42 PM
Jeremy Cohen
@TheCohencidence
ThreadOK, I have a theory. I don't know if the Knicks will wind up able to do it, but the math checks out.

You know the report of a potential Reggie Bullock S&T? It's possible that it was for Jalen Brunson but I don't think it was. I think the Knicks are trying to create a TPE (1/9)
5:45 PM ·
Reply

Jeremy Cohen
@TheCohencidence
·
35m
Replying to
@TheCohencidence
For those who don't know, a Traded Player Exception (TPE) is a way for over-the-cap teams to exceed the salary cap. Last year, Boston "traded" Gordon Hayward into Charlotte's cap space and received a big TPE. They could then absorb salary without needing trades to match (2/9)
1
28

Jeremy Cohen
@TheCohencidence
·
33m
The Mavs are signing Bullock to 3/$30.5M, which is very close to signing for a three-year MLE. The Mavs are also gaining a $10.8M TPE for dumping Richardson into Boston's TPE. Signing Bullock via the MLE would still give the Mavs their TPE to use over the next 365 days (3/9)
1
25

Jeremy Cohen
@TheCohencidence
·
32m
TPEs can only be used for trades and S&Ts. Thus, the Bullock S&T rumor. Dallas may prefer to S&T Bullock into their TPE and then spend the MLE on someone like Schroder or Jackson or any player they believe they can sign and help. #acronyms

However, there's an issue... (4/9)

The Richardson trade hasn't been made official yet, so the Mavs don't actually have their TPE to use. Bullock's salary could slide right into that TPE, but with the TPE being held up because no trade has been finalized, the Mavs are likely stuck. This leads us to the Knicks (5/9)
5:50 PM · Aug 4, 2021·Twitter Web App
23
 Likes


Jeremy Cohen
@TheCohencidence
·
32m
Replying to
@TheCohencidence
You can't keep a TPE if you're under the cap. The Knicks will no longer be under the cap now that they're signing Kemba Walker. But in order to sign Kemba, they have to clear Bullock's cap hold. This could render a S&T pointless, unless the Knicks can get a 2nd round pick (6/9)
2
23

Jeremy Cohen
@TheCohencidence
·
30m
Or, the Knicks could do something else. They could keep Bullock's cap hold on the books + dump Kevin Knox's salary elsewhere (OKC?).

Knox's salary = $5.85M
Bullock's cap hold = $5.46M

They're similar. Too similar. Then factor in that Knox won't see PT in NY? No brainer (7/9)



Jeremy Cohen
@TheCohencidence
·
21m
Richardson trade with Boston finally goes through. Knicks dump Knox, keep Bullock's cap hold, sign all their free agents, and extend Rose with his EBR.

Now over the salary cap, the Knicks trade Bullock into the Mavs' TPE. It likely gives NY a TPE of $4.68M (8/9)

Could have had Brunson cheaper but Leon wanted to keep Chip's precious draft picks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 08, 2022, 10:40:53 AM
Loving the Obi vibe at the Garden

Still believe in Julius but could be an interesting year for him.  How he handles any perceived adversity could affect where he eventually lands.
Title: Re: Rumor ville and conjecture city
Post by: LarryBnDC on October 08, 2022, 06:42:03 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 08, 2022, 10:38:49 AM
Quote from: Kam on August 04, 2021, 06:26:42 PM
Jeremy Cohen
@TheCohencidence
ThreadOK, I have a theory. I don't know if the Knicks will wind up able to do it, but the math checks out.

You know the report of a potential Reggie Bullock S&T? It's possible that it was for Jalen Brunson but I don't think it was. I think the Knicks are trying to create a TPE (1/9)
5:45 PM ·
Reply

Jeremy Cohen
@TheCohencidence
·
35m
Replying to
@TheCohencidence
For those who don't know, a Traded Player Exception (TPE) is a way for over-the-cap teams to exceed the salary cap. Last year, Boston "traded" Gordon Hayward into Charlotte's cap space and received a big TPE. They could then absorb salary without needing trades to match (2/9)
1
28

Jeremy Cohen
@TheCohencidence
·
33m
The Mavs are signing Bullock to 3/$30.5M, which is very close to signing for a three-year MLE. The Mavs are also gaining a $10.8M TPE for dumping Richardson into Boston's TPE. Signing Bullock via the MLE would still give the Mavs their TPE to use over the next 365 days (3/9)
1
25

Jeremy Cohen
@TheCohencidence
·
32m
TPEs can only be used for trades and S&Ts. Thus, the Bullock S&T rumor. Dallas may prefer to S&T Bullock into their TPE and then spend the MLE on someone like Schroder or Jackson or any player they believe they can sign and help. #acronyms

However, there's an issue... (4/9)

The Richardson trade hasn't been made official yet, so the Mavs don't actually have their TPE to use. Bullock's salary could slide right into that TPE, but with the TPE being held up because no trade has been finalized, the Mavs are likely stuck. This leads us to the Knicks (5/9)
5:50 PM · Aug 4, 2021·Twitter Web App
23
 Likes


Jeremy Cohen
@TheCohencidence
·
32m
Replying to
@TheCohencidence
You can't keep a TPE if you're under the cap. The Knicks will no longer be under the cap now that they're signing Kemba Walker. But in order to sign Kemba, they have to clear Bullock's cap hold. This could render a S&T pointless, unless the Knicks can get a 2nd round pick (6/9)
2
23

Jeremy Cohen
@TheCohencidence
·
30m
Or, the Knicks could do something else. They could keep Bullock's cap hold on the books + dump Kevin Knox's salary elsewhere (OKC?).

Knox's salary = $5.85M
Bullock's cap hold = $5.46M

They're similar. Too similar. Then factor in that Knox won't see PT in NY? No brainer (7/9)



Jeremy Cohen
@TheCohencidence
·
21m
Richardson trade with Boston finally goes through. Knicks dump Knox, keep Bullock's cap hold, sign all their free agents, and extend Rose with his EBR.

Now over the salary cap, the Knicks trade Bullock into the Mavs' TPE. It likely gives NY a TPE of $4.68M (8/9)

Could have had Brunson cheaper but Leon wanted to keep Chip's precious draft picks.

It is not your money...
Title: Re: Rumor ville and conjecture city
Post by: chipstern on October 08, 2022, 08:08:14 PM
Quote from: LarryBnDC on October 08, 2022, 06:42:03 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 08, 2022, 10:38:49 AM
Quote from: Kam on August 04, 2021, 06:26:42 PM
Jeremy Cohen
@TheCohencidence
ThreadOK, I have a theory. I don't know if the Knicks will wind up able to do it, but the math checks out.

You know the report of a potential Reggie Bullock S&T? It's possible that it was for Jalen Brunson but I don't think it was. I think the Knicks are trying to create a TPE (1/9)
5:45 PM ·
Reply

Jeremy Cohen
@TheCohencidence
·
35m
Replying to
@TheCohencidence
For those who don't know, a Traded Player Exception (TPE) is a way for over-the-cap teams to exceed the salary cap. Last year, Boston "traded" Gordon Hayward into Charlotte's cap space and received a big TPE. They could then absorb salary without needing trades to match (2/9)
1
28

Jeremy Cohen
@TheCohencidence
·
33m
The Mavs are signing Bullock to 3/$30.5M, which is very close to signing for a three-year MLE. The Mavs are also gaining a $10.8M TPE for dumping Richardson into Boston's TPE. Signing Bullock via the MLE would still give the Mavs their TPE to use over the next 365 days (3/9)
1
25

Jeremy Cohen
@TheCohencidence
·
32m
TPEs can only be used for trades and S&Ts. Thus, the Bullock S&T rumor. Dallas may prefer to S&T Bullock into their TPE and then spend the MLE on someone like Schroder or Jackson or any player they believe they can sign and help. #acronyms

However, there's an issue... (4/9)

The Richardson trade hasn't been made official yet, so the Mavs don't actually have their TPE to use. Bullock's salary could slide right into that TPE, but with the TPE being held up because no trade has been finalized, the Mavs are likely stuck. This leads us to the Knicks (5/9)
5:50 PM · Aug 4, 2021·Twitter Web App
23
 Likes


Jeremy Cohen
@TheCohencidence
·
32m
Replying to
@TheCohencidence
You can't keep a TPE if you're under the cap. The Knicks will no longer be under the cap now that they're signing Kemba Walker. But in order to sign Kemba, they have to clear Bullock's cap hold. This could render a S&T pointless, unless the Knicks can get a 2nd round pick (6/9)
2
23

Jeremy Cohen
@TheCohencidence
·
30m
Or, the Knicks could do something else. They could keep Bullock's cap hold on the books + dump Kevin Knox's salary elsewhere (OKC?).

Knox's salary = $5.85M
Bullock's cap hold = $5.46M

They're similar. Too similar. Then factor in that Knox won't see PT in NY? No brainer (7/9)



Jeremy Cohen
@TheCohencidence
·
21m
Richardson trade with Boston finally goes through. Knicks dump Knox, keep Bullock's cap hold, sign all their free agents, and extend Rose with his EBR.

Now over the salary cap, the Knicks trade Bullock into the Mavs' TPE. It likely gives NY a TPE of $4.68M (8/9)

Could have had Brunson cheaper but Leon wanted to keep Chip's precious draft picks.

It is not your money...

Kiid has some curious priorities.

PS: Chip's precious draft picks?  Heh.  Clearly a proponent of classic Knicks strategy of eating our young and burning draft picks.  But then, a fan of Scott Layden  and Scotty Sterling.
Title: Progress [Trust The Process]
Post by: chipstern on October 09, 2022, 04:50:03 AM
JALEN BRUNSON

The Real Deal

Relaxing everyone on the floor.  Julius still makes me cringe when he hoists threes, but is faciltating, looking out for R.J. and going to the rack with some force, as befits a mass of muscle not located between his ears.   

JALEN is setting the tone.  SETTING AN EXAMPLE

For instance: 9-9 from the FT line.  Knicks as a team were 27-28 against Indiana.

Hello.  Trust we've heard the last of the Donovan Mitchell bleatings.  And we still have R.J, IQ, Obi and Grimes.  HELLO. 

A SURFEIT OF POINT GUARDS

Brunson, Rose, Quickley, McBride [Arcidiacano?] 

Interesting that at one point Thibs had IQ, Deuce, Rose, Obi and Hartenstein out on the floor at the same time.

Deuce still needs work on his shot and shot selection, but I waited the better part of a year to see him nail a pair of consecutive three pointers

CHEMISTRY

R.J. and Julius

CHEMISTRY

IQ and Obi

THREE HEADED CENTER

Mitchell [19], IH [16], Jericho [13]

Looks like Jericho WILL get some burn

CAM

Struggling with his shot, but Thibs held out hope if not a gift basket to him in his post-game, talking of
doing some other things well. 

DEUCE

Has clearly gotten coach's attention.  Tough.  A Pest.  Thibs brushed off the intimation that there was no room for Deuce in his rotation. 

R.J.

Playing like he is part of a BIG THREE.  Still needs to work on his midrange game and shots off the bounce, but his three looks good, and so far has been hitting his FTs. 

JULIUS

Need to dial in his jumper if he is going to keep lauching threes, but he looks focused.

OBI

Thibs has been very even steven about divving up minutes at the PF spot, and notes how Obi has a ways to go on defense, but acknowledged his improvement, and spoke of the pace he has been playing with.  Like Hahn said, you want minutes?  DEMAND THEM. 

THIBS

We'll see how his rotations shake out in the real season, but reasons to be hopeful, and you can see he has the troops' on the same page.  CONTINUITY & CHEMISTRY & CORE OF YOUTH.  We are defending better and playing with more pace, certainly his coach on the floor, Brunson, letting us see another side of TT. 

Hey, Detroit and Indiana AIN'T MEMPHIS, so there's that.  But we seem to be progressing. 

BEST TRADES ARE OFTEN THE ONES YOU DO NOT MAKE

Heh

POSTSCRIPTS

Keels and Hunt look headed for Westchester. 

Mykhailiuk has nice size at 6'7" and can really fucking shoot.  Arcidiacono too, who also has that connection with Brunson.  If I were a betting man, I'd say they are front runners, though Hunt offers additional size, athleticism AND depth at PF and SF.  Remains to be seen how Cam progresses and if Thibs feels comfortable penciling him in at SF-SG-PF. 

Harris and Jeffries have skills to reccommend them as well. 

Interesting decisions afoot for the final two spots. 

C: Robinson, Hartenstein, Sims
PF: Randle, Toppin
SF: RJ, Reddish
SG: Fournier, Grimes, Mykhailiuk
PG: Brunson, IQ, Rose, McBride, Arcidiacono
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 10, 2022, 02:55:58 AM
I might go with Svi and Archi over Harris and Jefferies at this point, and I really like Jefferies.

We are getting into very situational waters here.
Title: PGs & Wings
Post by: chipstern on October 10, 2022, 10:34:26 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 10, 2022, 02:55:58 AM
I might go with Svi and Archi over Harris and Jefferies at this point, and I really like Jefferies.

We are getting into very situational waters here.

Having basically played sans point guards in 2021-22, who's to say we are not intent on keeping a substantial supply in the larder, for game AND practice contingencies. 

Hell, Thibs even played THREE POINT GUARDS [Rose, Quickley, McBride] with Hartenstein and Toppin the other night. 

Arcidiacano's Villinova connection to Brunson and his three point range kind of gives him a leg up. 

In 2018-2019, he got some burn for the Bulls, starting 32 games and averaging 24.2 minutes, a FT% of .873% and .373% from trey.  Useage came down over next two seasons, but has shown he can hit the three, which means something to Thibs.  He'll be 29 next March, 

Svi's size and range suggest an Alec Burks scaled big wing, who at 6'7" can offer coverage at SG & SF.  Basically gave the Pistons 9-2-2 in over 22.6 minutes in 56 games back converting at treys at a .404% clip [115-285] and an .814 FT%.   

Worth noting, that [potentially] with the 6'8" Reddish, the 6'7" Mykhailiuk, the 6'7" Fournier, the 6'6" Barrett and the 6'5" Grimes, Thibs would have a reasonable range of size at the SG-SF position, given that our PGs are in the Mighty Mouse Range, with the 6'1" Brunson, the 6'2" McBride, the 6'2" Rose, the 6'3" Quickley and the 6'3" Arcidiacono. 

While big PGs such as Doncic and Ball, Gilgeous-Alexander and Simmons are the next evolutionary wave of the species, smallish [well, relatively smallish] PGs abound and prosper in the NBA, where the 6'0" Paul, 6'0" Lowry, 6'1" Garland, 6'1" Van Vleet, 6'1" Young, 6'2" Lillard, 6'2" Curry, 6'2" Nunn, 6'2" Maxey, 6'2" Irving, 6'3" Wall, 6'3 Westbrook, 6'3" Holiday, and 6'3" Smart take a back seat to no one.  So when people take note of Brunson's HEIGHT, I reference his HEART and bulldawg physique. 

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRFk_wn1SxWMUTfwpIFWZlr-CIxhDf8B5iz5Od7S9H7mhQL31rAGNgEtRXGFSmf6qPxRMQ&usqp=CAU)

Anyway, our Knicks have a ways to go in a brutally competitive East, but I like how our squad is shaping up, and RJ is looking like he is entering 2022-23 in take no prisoners mode, looking for respect for his game and HIS TEAM. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 10, 2022, 11:10:23 AM
I like having Hunt in our back pocket with no limits on practices and 50 games of availability.

We are deep, regardless how you feel about the nature and quality of our talent, at Center, shooting guard, and point guard. Our strongest position is also our thinnest one at PF, with Jericho or Cam needing to step in if anything happens to either of our studs.

If Svi can defend like a man possessed, we might have something there.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 10, 2022, 11:47:22 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 10, 2022, 11:10:23 AM
I like having Hunt in our back pocket with no limits on practices and 50 games of availability.

We are deep, regardless how you feel about the nature and quality of our talent, at Center, shooting guard, and point guard. Our strongest position is also our thinnest one at PF, with Jericho or Cam needing to step in if anything happens to either of our studs.

If Svi can defend like a man possessed, we might have something there.

Someone who can come in ice cold off the bench and shoot like THAT, must've gotten Thibs attention. 

Hunt COMPETES.  He and Keels will get reps they need in Westchester.  Harris and Jeffries, too, though I can imagine someone taking a flyer on Harris. 

Thought Hunt was trying to demo his toughness and grit in going to the hoop against the Pacers, drawing shot blockers.  Might've better thought about pulling up for the jumper.  Like his length and athleticism. 

(https://www.si.com/.image/c_limit%2Ccs_srgb%2Cq_auto:good%2Cw_1240/MTg5NDEwNjQxNzEzMzA4OTM0/1204030732jpg0.webp)

Meanwhile, inviting Kiid to fire up his Scoff-O-Meter, nevertheless, keeping on eye on DEVELOPMENTAL STASH, EuroLeague Rising Star Rokas Jokubaitis of the formidable FC Barcelona franchise, with some interesting stats, particularly his 3-PT shooting, in an admittedly small sample size, but still...RJ will be 22 in November.   

https://www.basketball-reference.com/international/players/rokas-jokubaitis-1.html (https://www.basketball-reference.com/international/players/rokas-jokubaitis-1.html)



Title: R-E-S-P-E-C-T
Post by: chipstern on October 10, 2022, 11:52:43 AM
(https://library.sportingnews.com/styles/crop_style_16_9_mobile_2x/s3/2022-10/daniel-jones-100922-getty-ftr.jpg?itok=OnE2Peqn)

(https://static.clubs.nfl.com/image/private/t_editorial_landscape_mobile/f_auto/giants/gixcklx543tfkymzlibu.jpg)

(https://www.sportscasting.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Brian-Daboll-London.jpg?w=925)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 10, 2022, 03:14:39 PM
This should jibe with your current mental state, Chip, courtesy of Big Blue

(http://video-images.vice.com/_uncategorized/1665370600260-screen-shot-2022-10-10-at-15451-pm.png?resize=800:*)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 10, 2022, 05:48:09 PM
Mykhailiuk has nice size at 6'7" and can really fucking shoot.  Arcidiacono too, who also has that connection with Brunson.  If I were a betting man, I'd say they are front runners, though Hunt offers additional size, athleticism AND depth at PF and SF.  Remains to be seen how Cam progresses and if Thibs feels comfortable penciling him in at SF-SG-PF.


Reddish may be dealt prior to opening night tip.  I am sure they are fielding offers.  Just not a real good fit here.   

Svi can shoot?  Yeah,imagine that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 10, 2022, 06:23:45 PM
You are a blind moron, Kid. I can only assume you have been this defective since birth.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 10, 2022, 06:45:21 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 10, 2022, 06:23:45 PM
You are a blind moron, Kid. I can only assume you have been this defective since birth.

A willful contrarin promulgating dumbass contraband.

No way Reddish is being traded before opening night

Pulled that out his ass, much as he was removed from his Mama's, simply to troll those on this forum who have a rooting interest in Reddish, by way of trumpeting his superior insights.

💩
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 10, 2022, 07:08:02 PM
Tripped over a freakin referee (no doubt one of those chicks gettin in the way)

Heh

https://dailyknicks.com/2022/10/04/cam-reddish-injury-knicks-preseason-opener-brutal/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 10, 2022, 07:10:22 PM
Full practice for GRMES today

Should see him vs Pacers WED and plenty of him Friday night vs WIZ.

 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 10, 2022, 08:36:34 PM
McClung lands in Philly

Only game for Warriors he put up 9 pts, 2 assists, 2 rebounds and 2 steals in 12 minutes on 4-6, 1-1 from 3 shooting

https://www.nba.com/player/1630644
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 10, 2022, 08:56:03 PM
Liking Mitchell with Garland.  He makes Darius better, surely.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 10, 2022, 09:32:08 PM
Bones Hyland (yep, we passed) lighting it up IN DEN

----

 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 11, 2022, 01:04:07 AM
Kid you are a weird, easily dislikable dude.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 11, 2022, 06:36:37 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 11, 2022, 01:04:07 AM
Kid you are a weird, easily dislikable dude.

Convinced he is the smartest man in the room.

We didn't PASS on Bones Hyland, you flippant false flag fuckhead fartgenerator

We TARGETTED Quentin Grimes
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 11, 2022, 12:58:12 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 11, 2022, 06:36:37 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 11, 2022, 01:04:07 AM
Kid you are a weird, easily dislikable dude.

Convinced he is the smartest man in the room.

 
 

It's a curse - true.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 11, 2022, 02:15:59 PM
Players we passed on to get the great Grimes:


Kai Jones
Jalen Johnson
Keon Johnson
Isiah Jackson*
Usman Garuba
Josh Christopher
Bones Hyland*
Cam Thomas
Day'Ron Sharpe
Santi Aldama

*  touted here pre draft


Title: The smartest
Post by: carlos123 on October 11, 2022, 04:25:07 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on October 11, 2022, 12:58:12 PM
Quote from: Chip on October 11, 2022, 06:36:37 AM
Quote from: Fac on October 11, 2022, 01:04:07 AM
Kid you are a weird, easily dislikable dude.

Convinced he is the smartest man in the room.

 
 

It's a curse - true.
THE LAST PIC IS THE MOST RELEVANT
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AL9nZEU3wUjfeUiY79EiGfcBBZ_rSVcR65HcSKgHRBwPfJ6T1GdQzQc4INtR5HRpz6IfHYc68hmPqn5qUbSF8jgbaf08c0N16HrVQvCFZNSx1xlwMB4aW4a5253UC8Ht7nuiLqxDBOopSixddAVlKESmZW6l=w626-h570-no?authuser=0)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AL9nZEXxiLMEyZBf56bYJBc3NRGqWH2_h2I205sE_Xhoh9c3asJIc7szZkwj1cJTTxJcWaq_77K7gL_Ao6JZ-J1TGml4dffiaunaIphBnSmK3CnKPgV52A-5QzdAzHfn3J9JphJrNIkI-Z_ns13voNwuMqyd=w626-h570-no?authuser=0)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AL9nZEXKNzGgdLtO6V3QLdXAHDlo8eFQkwHTMdp3uPbiCI_HtejznMSbouiz6n0UrCILzLn_FFUvIgx-N4AyTkAnC8dSV8KLAw8pQ8fntf6nqgqh2u1XoyB4SBt4pf0zLhNYwNYLR9GVKukzn6L2Ullli7ur=w626-h570-no?authuser=0)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AL9nZEV7HzW7gZWHs052pvWckrkROu5rApGsPEbSzLDitjOeM98oessZ7futdvZWzxOph6dA2SdlATe5jaeYz5CKlXeVU8MLUZA7i_SIdpmzeN90QQ2KntylxO3CIYwosBEADZesvqaMGhPmTRmCq5WvsMxE=w427-h439-no?authuser=0)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AL9nZEWvwGe66o0HU_jDiAZC7trED2lpxqVqJln34Sw3rcZNNI-CclH7x40ptaFL8uE_z4eEaYrbTgZPDabZInL23EvGaSm7_hgrQtYndrVE-zmarDGyE6uMlz1W5cfC714rPpyzRrkQg4TVcTr6BblzMvuT=w626-h570-no?authuser=0)
THE LAST PIC IS THE MOST RELEVANT
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: LarryBnDC on October 12, 2022, 11:47:21 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 11, 2022, 12:58:12 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 11, 2022, 06:36:37 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 11, 2022, 01:04:07 AM
Kid you are a weird, easily dislikable dude.

Convinced he is the smartest man in the room.

 
 

It's a curse - true.

Shades of Shandon Anderson!

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 12, 2022, 12:18:01 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 11, 2022, 02:15:59 PM
Players we passed on to get the great Grimes:


Kai Jones
Jalen Johnson
Keon Johnson
Isiah Jackson*
Usman Garuba
Josh Christopher
Bones Hyland*
Cam Thomas
Day'Ron Sharpe
Santi Aldama

*  touted here pre draft

You have a point here?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 12, 2022, 03:02:35 PM
Back in '64 we passed on Levern Tart* to take Tony Gennari in the 5th Round...still hurts! Levern became an ABA all-star. Tony never played a game. This stuff kills ya!


*touted at Flannery's Bar pre-draft
Title: Pay No Attention To The Dispshit Behind The Curtain
Post by: chipstern on October 12, 2022, 05:46:32 PM
Quote from: elephant on October 12, 2022, 12:18:01 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 11, 2022, 02:15:59 PM
Players we passed on to get the great Grimes:


Kai Jones
Jalen Johnson
Keon Johnson
Isiah Jackson*
Usman Garuba
Josh Christopher
Bones Hyland*
Cam Thomas
Day'Ron Sharpe
Santi Aldama

*  touted here pre draft

You have a point here?

(https://media.tenor.com/sHY2qL3VfMIAAAAC/wizrd-of-oz-pay-no-attention.gif)

Just to let us know how deluded we are to invest enthusiasm and put faith in Quentin Grimes. 

Kiid KNOWS BETTER, as we have seen time and time again. 

You say Tah-MAY-Tow

Kiid says Toe-MAH-Toe

Let's call the whole thing off. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 12, 2022, 06:12:55 PM
So.....no Grimes tonight - too bad.

Reddish OK?  We'll see, as he attempts to save his NY career (word is Knicks not extending him)

New trade -

Reddish and McBride for Crowder.  hmmmmm....doesnt quite add up dollaar wise - even with Keels added - too bad

Meanwhile in other Knicks news AINGE continues driving it up Leon's butt by nabbing and keeping (on 2-way) summer standout Micah Potter - a perfect sixth big man we jettisoned to keep other less valuable cats.  Look for Potter to play plenty for Jazz this year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 12, 2022, 06:14:29 PM
Kiid KNOWS BETTER, as we have seen time and time again.


I like Grimes.  Scroll back.
Title: So........
Post by: carlos123 on October 12, 2022, 07:10:27 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on October 12, 2022, 06:14:29 PM
Kiid KNOWS BETTER, as we have seen time and time again.


I like Grimes.  Scroll back.

So..........
...........

What was your point telling us that you "touted here" other guys?

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AL9nZEWvwGe66o0HU_jDiAZC7trED2lpxqVqJln34Sw3rcZNNI-CclH7x40ptaFL8uE_z4eEaYrbTgZPDabZInL23EvGaSm7_hgrQtYndrVE-zmarDGyE6uMlz1W5cfC714rPpyzRrkQg4TVcTr6BblzMvuT=w626-h570-no?authuser=0)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 13, 2022, 02:46:23 PM
"The starters played well...."

-Thibs

Well, that's something.
Title: RJ vs DM [What's Not To Like?]
Post by: chipstern on October 14, 2022, 06:56:31 AM
Cavs [105] vs Hawks [99]

Donovan Mitchell 24-8-3, on 8-26 from the floor, 4-10 from trey, 4-4 FTs. 

Pacers [109] vs Knicks [100]

R.J. Barrett 21-4-3, on 7-14, 1-5 from trey, 6-7 FTs.   





 
Title: Downs & Ups
Post by: chipstern on October 14, 2022, 07:28:31 AM
Thibs was displeased with the bench, and why not.

Hartenstein-Toppin-Reddish-IQ-McBride

Mainly a matter of defensive softness and lack of focus. 

I love me IQ, but he was in one of his ball dominant, hero modes vs. the Pacers, forcing the issue, too often looking for his own shot [4-18], precluding ball movement.  And wimpy defense. 

Cam continues to struggle.  Deuce still looking for his shot.  Obi with a couple of big dunks, 0-3 from trey.

As for Hartenstein, seems kind of befuddled on D, and on offense, was often looking off shot opportunities.   

HOWEVER, 10 rebounds AND 5 assists, revealing himself to be a very, very heady passer. 

The starters?

Brunson, despite his shot being off [4-14, 2-4 FTs], still had 8 rebounds and 3 assists, while imparting a degree of control and continuity and coherence to the startin five that didn't translate to his own stats, but looking at the overall box score...well. 

While a representaive sample will have to wait a few weeks, the ADDITION BY SUBTRACTION argument regarding Julius Randle doesn't seem to hold water. 

JR is neither hogging the ball [5-10] nor pounding the rock, is starting to dial in his threes [3-6], and notched 13-8-5, with one block and only 2 turnovers, looking to keep his teammates involved, and beginning to seek out muscle to the hoop.  He seems to be in excellent condition, and is looking to make the extra pass. 

RJ was 21-4-3, while his treys weren't falling [1-5], he IS getting to the line and IS converting his FTs [7-8].

Mitchell, 8 points 8 boards and 4 blocks, and Thibs is giving signs that he is not going to burn him out with bench depth of Hartenstein and Sims.  Looks to be in great shape. 

Fournier still not dialed in offensively, hot and cold on her shot, but 3 assists and a steal. 

I suspect we are very much a work in progress, and speed bumps abound. 

But I'm liking what I'm seeing so far, and as for the speed bumps of IQ and the second unit, well, I am sure Thibs has had a heart to heart, and we saw what was missing without Derrick Rose on the floor. 

ANYWAY...

Wizards will be testing the Knicks all season long.  Not sure who sits and who plays, but a lot of interesting matchups: Porzingis vs Robinson, Hartenstein vs Gafford, Kuzma/Hachimura vs JR/Toppin, Barton vs RJ, Beal vs Fournier, Morris vs Brunson. 
Title: PS
Post by: chipstern on October 14, 2022, 07:36:55 AM
BENNEDICT MATHURIN 👀

27 Points
8/13 Shooting
11/12 Free Throws
4 Rebounds

Waiting for Kiid to explain how this forum was asleep on BM, how he had him scouted all along and wondering why the Knicks didn't target him. 

Anyway...very IMPRESSIVE Talent.  UberSkilled and VERY Aggressive. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 14, 2022, 02:32:20 PM
I was all for trading up.  Does that count?
Title: Touting
Post by: carlos123 on October 14, 2022, 03:46:09 PM
Quote from: chamAAcocartero8 on October 14, 2022, 02:32:20 PM
I was all for trading up.  Does that count?

NO
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 14, 2022, 10:20:07 PM
Trading Up?

No.

That doesn't count.  Irrelevant, pointless in fact.

All our machinations revolved around creating cap space for Brunson.

That kid on the Pacers or Brunson?

Duh.

We offloaded all of our vet ballast save for Rose.

Only one currently playing is Gibson.

We converted them and the #11 pick into three future #1 picks, Jalen Brunson, Isiah Hartenstein, and the cap space to reup Robinson.

Better than moving up?  Comparable.

Proof is in the pudding.  We had no shot at Ivey.  Brunson is the real deal. 

Onwards. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 15, 2022, 12:27:58 AM
Nice mop up of that JV team. Unfortunately their pick will not convey this year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 15, 2022, 07:18:55 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 15, 2022, 12:27:58 AM
Nice mop up of that JV team. Unfortunately their pick will not convey this year.

We still have the remote chance of the Jokubaitis stash coming through in 2023, let alone our #1 pick and that of Dallas, so we are quite alright for next summer. 

As for #1 picks, Wiz still waiting on Davis, Kispert, Aviva  to pan out.  Hachimura looked pretty good last night.

Our #2 from the Carmelo trade working out nicely.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 15, 2022, 09:26:48 AM
So we could not have signed Jalen Brunson  had we kept our pick at 11?

That's BS.

I do think we tried to move up.   No idea if Benedict M was on our list.  I didnt really know him.  Pretty unfamiliar with Pac 12 beyond UCLA at the time.   

I dont usually analyze past drafts this soon but if you want to take a quick peek - ha we kept the pick........

we know Duren was there - some here liked Griffin and Eason.  I pubbed  Malakhi Branham.  There waas Jalen Williams and the heady Christian Braun (aside his Ks teammate Agbaji).

No need to dwell.  Also no need to crow about that night in NYK land. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 15, 2022, 10:26:23 AM
We HAD TO clear the salaries of Walker, Noel and Burks.

Draft pick finagling  the ONLY Way.

I liked Duren. 

We kept Mitchell and added Hartenstein.   

Outside of the top five, nothing better than Brunson. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 15, 2022, 02:43:28 PM
Kid does not do math. He is a trickle down guy. They fear all arithmetic.
Title: Roster Moves
Post by: chipstern on October 15, 2022, 06:31:24 PM
James Akinjo
Jalen Harris
DaQuan Jeffries

All Waived

Ryan Arcidiacono has offically made the roster. 

No word on Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk's status, though like Arcidiacono, he was signed to a one-year deal. 

Presumably the 2-Way Contracts of Keels and Hunt on their way to Westchester.   

And, no suprise, according to Steph Bondy, Cam Reddish won't sign a contract extension before opening night. 

Andrew Wiggins, meanwhile, a 4-year $110 million extension with the Warriors.  Took less to remain, a fourth year player option. 

Jazz waived PG Jared Butler, a national champion backcourt mate to the Kings' Davion Mitchell.  A great collegiate competitor with Baylor.  I remember touting him as a possible Knick target, but they went with McBride. 

MEANWHILE

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d3/f7/88/d3f788f99d08cf56ae9e9ed2fcad9360.jpg)

Dikembe Mutumbo, iconic player, charitable, humane man [built a hospital in his native Zaire/Congo with his own money] has a brain tumor. 

Prayers going out to this fine M-A-N. 


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 15, 2022, 06:40:46 PM
And, no  surprise, according to Steph Bondy, Cam Reddish won't BE OFFERED a contract extension before opening night.




Check.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 15, 2022, 09:07:24 PM
As long as he is still on the team long after we have dealt Fournier, I am fine with it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 16, 2022, 01:14:11 PM
This is so funny to me.

The team has looked great with Fournier on the floor throughout preseason. Adds exactly what that lineup needs. The shot always in waiting as our get inside guys do their get inside things. Nice little bits of playmaking and two-man with Julius. The offense hums. The ball moves. The defense too. Whatever his limitations, and while very existant, they are oversold, he creditably stayed in front of Beal the other night, he is a much more solid team defender than Cam.

The idea of starting Reddish a pure joke. Cam just looks completely f'ing lost. I have no idea what his game is and clearly, he doesn't either. And I've been rooting for him. Am still rooting for him. But honestly, even Kevin Knox brings a much more coherent package at this point of their respective careers.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 16, 2022, 03:29:40 PM
I will not even disagree with starting Fournier now. Developing Cam so he has clear roles and priorities on both ends within our different lineups will make him more effective for us.

When Fournier was Cams age, he was a notable weak spot in some stinky Orlando defense. It took him a while to become the inoffensive team defender we all now know and love.
Title: Football Giants
Post by: chipstern on October 16, 2022, 05:09:52 PM
Knicks should be half as gritty as the Giants.  Jets for that matter.


Both teams growing and believing they can win.

Knicks' turn.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 17, 2022, 09:18:30 AM
Young talent, health and coaching

Yes.  Should apply to Knicks.

I have us 7th to 10th.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 17, 2022, 09:34:49 AM
 Hollinger picks inside Athletic's NBA Preview (Knicks tenth, Nets 4th)

https://theathletic.com/3653819/2022/10/17/nba-preview-2022/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 17, 2022, 05:23:34 PM
Fantasy draft tonight

Have to go o THIRD page of players (25 per) to find a Knick

Brunson at 66, Julius at 69

Then to page 5 to find 2 more

Mitch 101  RJ 107

Wow.  Thibs the magician this year when he gets to 42-45 wins.
Title: Om On The Range
Post by: chipstern on October 17, 2022, 07:59:38 PM
(https://scontent-lga3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/309711353_10225028002941257_2320364278521563499_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=Y4yJFF14N60AX87Frzz&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-2.xx&oh=00_AT9rB5cagGB0FxDnOmoo4tGA_pEYj6d9uPMPWWOP42Fsnw&oe=6352AFE5)

(https://scontent-lga3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/312150711_10225027996741102_8076073698960404795_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=SN31rZ2Xqa0AX8mwGrM&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-2.xx&oh=00_AT9LZ1lJXihUePcD5r18ruX9gBR8IcmEY279f3YkrVyG0A&oe=6352B4B9)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 17, 2022, 09:48:36 PM
Fantasy draft complete

Picked up ONE Knickerbocker.....

The incredible talent.........




Q GRIMES!
Title: Re: Om On The Range
Post by: carlos123 on October 17, 2022, 09:58:07 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 17, 2022, 07:59:38 PM
(https://scontent-lga3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/309711353_10225028002941257_2320364278521563499_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=Y4yJFF14N60AX87Frzz&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-2.xx&oh=00_AT9rB5cagGB0FxDnOmoo4tGA_pEYj6d9uPMPWWOP42Fsnw&oe=6352AFE5)           (FUTURE) KNICKS COACH

(https://scontent-lga3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/312150711_10225027996741102_8076073698960404795_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=SN31rZ2Xqa0AX8mwGrM&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-2.xx&oh=00_AT9LZ1lJXihUePcD5r18ruX9gBR8IcmEY279f3YkrVyG0A&oe=6352B4B9)         (CURRENT) GIANTS COACH
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 18, 2022, 08:51:42 AM
Happy Opening night folks!

Go, Westbrook.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 18, 2022, 10:00:39 AM
Time I think for Knicks to make a play for Raymond.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 18, 2022, 10:49:06 AM
That should say DRAYMOND of course
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 18, 2022, 12:19:49 PM
You know, if we had succeeded in getting Donovan would be a helluva time to make that play
Title: Superstars, Jesus Christ
Post by: chipstern on October 18, 2022, 01:16:28 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on October 18, 2022, 12:19:49 PM
You know, if we had succeeded in getting Donovan would be a helluva time to make that play

Dawg, I respect your acumen, vis a vis, evaluating talent. 

But I remain baffled as to why Knicks fans were cuckoo for cocoa puffs regarding Donovan Mitchell. 

And why not including R.J. Barrett and other pups plus draft assets in an Ainge Shakedown should still be regarded as a WHIFF.  A genuine talent, in any event, but...seriously?  A good facilitator and drop dead scorer, but a high volume one at that.  And as far as facilitating, did we get Brunson to take the ball out of his hands? 

DON'T BE GREEDY, Knicks fans.

On FACEBOOK and other internet forums, there remains this thread of thought in which the Knicks WHIFFING ON A SUPERSTAR seals our doom. 

WHAT superstars, exactly? 

The current SUPERSTAR we are WHIFFING ON, is purportedly, Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, a 6'6" PG/SG, whom OKC reeled in as part of the Paul George haul, which included Shai, Gallinari and, five [FIVE] #1 picks. 

I mean, why exactly would OKC offload a player capable of 24-5-6 a night? 

Utah was looking to retool for the future.  Shai is OKC's future, and just only turned 24. 

The championship Knicks of the 60s-70s nurtured their puppies...lost Van Arsdale to Phoenix in the expansion draft, but otherwise, Reed, Russell, Bradley, Stallworth, Riordan, Frazier, Jackson. 

The Detroit trade was a blockbuster, as Komives as our startting PG, and Bellamy the starting center and a future hall of famer. 

But Reed slid over to center, Debusschere in turn took Reed's PF spot, Frazier took over for Komives at the point, Bradley found his true niche in shifting from SG to SF, and Cazzie became a sixth man, while Stallworth, Riordan and Jackson blossomed as bench players and veteran Dick Barnett filled out the starting five.   

Trade did not seriously impact our depth, as a Mitchell Trade would've.  A true addition by subtraction move, that opened space for our pups to step in, step up and step out.  Did not eviscerate our depth, and double clutched chemistry. 

I DO NOT see a parallel between what Ainge was looking for as a return with the DeBusschere trade, as the Knicks did not gut their team team to get Dave DeB, though Bellamy was not chopped liver. 

Eventually, Riordan and Stallworth were the cost of Earl Monroe, a pretty bold move, and a young Cazzie the price for the insurance of an elderly Jerry Lucas given the nature of Reed's knees, and led to two finals appearances, and one championship. 

To me, the Brunson free agent signing has already had a ripple effect on the play of Barrett, Randle and Robinson, while the competition between Fournier, Grimes and Reddish bodes well for the evolution of our starting five. 

I recognize that I am in a small, if vocal minority, in preferring to go forward with R.J. in lieu of D.M., never you mind potentially losing Obi and Quick as well. 

In any event...

LET THE GAMES BEGIN
Title: Final Roster
Post by: chipstern on October 18, 2022, 01:24:57 PM
Pivots: Mitchell Robinson, Jericho Sims
Bigs: Julius Randle, Obi Toppin, Isaiah Hartenstein
Wings: R.J. Barrett, Evan Fournier, Quentin Grimes, Cam Reddish, Svi Mykhailiuk
Points: Jalen Brunson, Derrick Rose, Immanuel Quickley, Miles McBride, Ryan Arcidiacono

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 18, 2022, 02:12:03 PM
Giving a pick to get  Amare was a huge mistake

Giving multiple - plus players - to get Brunson - most certainly will not be.

Got it
Title: Re: Final Roster
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 18, 2022, 02:13:05 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 18, 2022, 01:24:57 PM
Pivots: Mitchell Robinson, Jericho Sims
Bigs: Julius Randle, Obi Toppin, Isaiah Hartenstein
Wings: R.J. Barrett, Evan Fournier, Quentin Grimes, Cam Reddish, Svi Mykhailiuk
Points: Jalen Brunson, Derrick Rose, Immanuel Quickley, Miles McBride, Ryan Arcidiacono

But who the 13?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 18, 2022, 03:41:31 PM
Alec Burks, the only player of note we moved, and a draft pick for Brunson and future considerations is a small coup for us.

The hinge of this season is can Thibs manage minutes to achieve more intense overall play while also preserving health and availability up and down the roster.

There is no reason to play a guy 33 minutes much less 35 with this group.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 18, 2022, 07:10:58 PM
As usual you start with a faulty premise (re:  Nerlens and the 11 pick having no value).  But nice of you to be up on Burks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 18, 2022, 08:47:35 PM
Knicks could have had Dragic and a nice pick for Nerlens Alec and Redddish last year.  Then had the cash for Brunson (with 2 more picks than we have now, including this year's #11).

heh

Oh well - onward
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 18, 2022, 09:45:08 PM
I'm bullish on the Knicks with a healthy Robinson.

He is really something else.

But can he stay reasonably healthy?

(commence prayers)

A lot swings on that.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 19, 2022, 03:37:32 AM
I would rather have Brunson than Dragic.

I would rather have Rose than Dragic.

I would rather have Quickley than Dragic.

I would rather bet on McBride and his future than have Dragic.

Dragic would be an upgrade over Archi, but why


Noel is basically worthless in the NBA, nice guy that he is. You really cannot have a center that needs an enforcer unless he shoots the lights out and distributes from the top of the key.

Burks and 11 in this past draft is less valuable than Brunson entering his prime.

I love Burks. He will resurface in a decent role sooner or later. Duren and of the guys taken later Eason is the guy I had my eye on could slot as lineup guys and give us a lift and make a body expendable, but we are still miles better off with Brunson and our returnees.

This is gonna be a fun season.

43 is my number if anyone still keeps track.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 19, 2022, 04:50:38 AM
The Dubs and Celts were ready to rumble on opening night.

The ability to steadily pour on points without letup is going to be as critical as keeping up energy for defense and loose balls.

One argument for staggering Mitch and Obi is they each make the first line of D guy for transition D run their ass off while still converting and creating contact. Jules and Isiah are better suited to do damage on the delayed break or as a set develops, giving time for their partner to get lost and reposition for a bunny.

It will be interesting to see how the wing and guard things shake out beyond Jalen and RJ.

Those six guys should all catch a decent load so long as they are healthy.

Memphis in their home opener provides a nice test of intestinal and testicular fortitude for this team. Should be fun.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 19, 2022, 11:16:39 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 19, 2022, 04:50:38 AM
The Dubs and Celts were ready to rumble on opening night.

The ability to steadily pour on points without letup is going to be as critical as keeping up energy for defense and loose balls.

One argument for staggering Mitch and Obi is they each make the first line of D guy for transition D run their ass off while still converting and creating contact. Jules and Isiah are better suited to do damage on the delayed break or as a set develops, giving time for their partner to get lost and reposition for a bunny.

It will be interesting to see how the wing and guard things shake out beyond Jalen and RJ.

Those six guys should all catch a decent load so long as they are healthy.

Memphis in their home opener provides a nice test of intestinal and testicular fortitude for this team. Should be fun.

Quentin and Obi held put tonight.

Cam Reddish, here's your moment.  Could pull minutes at SF and PF.

IA could see some stretch 4 moments.

Maybe even some minutes for Svi.

PS: Tatum & Brown a juggernaut.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 19, 2022, 11:25:41 AM
Quote from: elephant on October 18, 2022, 09:45:08 PM
I'm bullish on the Knicks with a healthy Robinson.

A healthy Robinson really key...to my 45W 46W   44W  47W 45W 44W prediction.

** along with Julius avoiding dyspepsia, Thibs avoiding Thibsia, and Quickley avoiding too many mindless ball-sucking, brick-chucking minutes at PG

*** I reserve the right to keep changing my mind right up to 7:29
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 19, 2022, 11:45:41 AM
Damn - no Obi?

Grimes injury may be a while.......
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 19, 2022, 11:46:38 AM
PS   Tatum & Brown a juggernaut.


And Doc still cannot coach.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 19, 2022, 12:17:00 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on October 19, 2022, 11:25:41 AM
Quote from: elephant on October 18, 2022, 09:45:08 PM
I'm bullish on the Knicks with a healthy Robinson.

A healthy Robinson really key...to my 45W 46W   44W prediction.

** along with Julius avoiding dyspepsia, Thibs avoiding Thibsia, and Quickley avoiding too many mindless ball-sucking, brick-chucking minutes at PG

*** I reserve the right to keep changing my mind right up to 7:29

Love IQ, but he IS an adventure in fine dining.  The manner in which he finished last spring was inspirational, his preseason, a cold shower of the feast or famine festival festooned around our neck by Quickus ChuckUpLey
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 19, 2022, 02:21:49 PM
Quote from: elephant on October 18, 2022, 09:45:08 PM
I'm bullish on the Knicks with a healthy Robinson.

He is really something else.

But can he stay reasonably healthy?

(commence prayers)

A lot swings on that.

Right

The jettisoning of Noel is not without consequence.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 19, 2022, 02:52:21 PM
Yep, I mean, maybe Jericho's development will surprise us. I've heard nothing about his play.

But if the big man goes down, who's gonna be there?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 19, 2022, 02:55:48 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 19, 2022, 03:37:32 AM

Noel is basically worthless in the NBA, nice guy that he is. You really cannot have a center that needs an enforcer unless he shoots the lights out and distributes from the top of the key.


I think you overdo this.

Noel gave us a lot of strong games two seasons ago. He was a real component of a winning team.

And fuck, god knows how deep we would have sunk last year without Taj. I cannot remember the dude playing a bad game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 19, 2022, 04:33:53 PM
Quote from: elephant on October 19, 2022, 02:52:21 PM
Yep, I mean, maybe Jericho's development will surprise us. I've heard nothing about his play.

But if the big man goes down, who's gonna be there?

Isiah and Jericho will do just fine.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 19, 2022, 05:54:07 PM
Program note

Usually NBA league pass is free first week.

Gotta catch that POR-SAC matchup......
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 19, 2022, 06:48:14 PM
Knicks preseason roundtable

https://knicksfantv.com/2022-2023-knicks-season-preview-roundtable/?fbclid=IwAR2ksaMwJgZ8mqyk3yu7dkP9n4jau_UifsGHxE7nfB5Q9kIAtxmEuU9QxRw
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 19, 2022, 07:01:09 PM
Quote from: elephant on October 19, 2022, 02:55:48 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 19, 2022, 03:37:32 AM

Noel is basically worthless in the NBA, nice guy that he is. You really cannot have a center that needs an enforcer unless he shoots the lights out and distributes from the top of the key.


I think you overdo this.

Noel gave us a lot of strong games two seasons ago. He was a real component of a winning team.

And fuck, god knows how deep we would have sunk last year without Taj. I cannot remember the dude playing a bad game.

Nerlens was a significant component of our 44-38 season, especially after Mitchell went down...

NN a fine rim protector. 

But people talk about Mitchell's durability?  Nerlens couldn't stay on the floor..

The need for cap space and the emergence of Jericho punched Noel's ticket out if town.  Not sure if Hartenstein shapes up as Noel's defensive match, but a terrific passer and can stretch the floor.

Hey, maybe Burks comes back next summer.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 19, 2022, 07:08:30 PM
If we believed in Jericho so much we would  have kept Micah Potter and not signed Isiah.
Title: Yikes
Post by: chipstern on October 19, 2022, 09:05:31 PM
Terrible shooting.

Jah Morant

A lethal combo
Title: Grinding
Post by: chipstern on October 19, 2022, 09:45:01 PM
Julius looking like Julius.

And Cam FUCKING Reddish.
Title: Gritty Comeback
Post by: chipstern on October 19, 2022, 09:50:37 PM
Hartenstein
Randle
Reddish
Barrett
Brunson
Title: Cam & Jalen
Post by: chipstern on October 19, 2022, 10:08:51 PM
Clutch three.

Gritty offensive foul take.

OT

After being down 19.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 19, 2022, 10:17:09 PM
I wanted to see what a great game from Reddish would look like.

The gods finally answered.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 19, 2022, 10:25:34 PM
That Hartenstein guy has heart.

And Brunson is exactly what we've needed at the point. Just a long time coming.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 19, 2022, 10:27:29 PM
Barrett and IQ.

A game to forget.
Title: Re: Grinding
Post by: facilitatorn on October 19, 2022, 11:27:40 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 19, 2022, 09:45:01 PM
Julius looking like Julius.

And Cam FUCKING Reddish.

Cam was our best wing by several stretches this game, as expected.

The only players who do a decent job getting themselves open and available for the ball handler by working off the ball are Cam, Isiah, Evan, and Brunson. Everyone else still just sorta stands around. You could see Memphis guys doing through cuts and working the baseline almost every possession. It gave them enough of an edge. Still, I think there is hope for us once we get a little more confident and organized.

Rose is the backup PG. Quickley is a utility guard and secondary play maker based on what he showed today.

Rotation going forward should be

Hartenstein Robinson
Randle Toppin
Reddish Fournier
RJ Quickley
Brunson Rose

Grimes might push Quickley out once he gets his wheels right.

Title: Re: Grinding
Post by: elephant on October 20, 2022, 01:38:12 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 19, 2022, 11:27:40 PM

Cam was our best wing by several stretches this game, as expected.


When Cam played poorly in all the previous games, was that expected too?

Quote from: facilitatorn on October 19, 2022, 11:27:40 PM
Hartenstein Robinson
Randle Toppin
Reddish Fournier
RJ Quickley
Brunson Rose

Grimes might push Quickley out once he gets his wheels right.

So when healthy, Grimes "might" crack our top ten.

Good to know!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 20, 2022, 02:34:31 AM
You never know how long it takes for a foot to heal. Then there is reconditioning and probable reaggravation leading to more shutdowns so I would not count on a whole lot from Grimes this season.

It is a shame. He would help with 3 of our biggest issues after one game, shooting, rebounding and perimeter defense.

I was not worried about the preseason performance of Reddish. He picked up where he was before he had to check out last season. We may regret not having extended him up front
Title: YOU RIGHT CAM REDDISH NEEDS TO START!!!
Post by: lesterluv on October 20, 2022, 09:55:11 AM
but not in place of Fournier, in place of RJ!

The free minutes for RJ have GOT to come to an end.

It is hard to fathom that the PHYSICAL COST of getting Mitchell was apparently, reportedly ONLY RJ + IQ.

WE GONNA FEEL THAT FOR A WHILE.

You are going to talk to me about draft picks????? We haven't drafted a player whose career looks as good as DM's is looking since 1987 and arguably since 85. WTF you worried about draft picks for? That's like 60 players over the last third of a century....NOT ONE. A 60-1 shot we end up crying over one of those draft picks.

Ain't gonna be no missed Wembanyama opp when he's on the roster he helps teams win. People mumbling "unprotected" like it means holy grail.

Fun stuff last night. Was super happy for Hartenstein whose pre-season had screamed third-string center and nothing more.

And Brunson with that regulation end magic stop. Lots of fun. Evan lands that shot and we're almost up there with the legendary 2006 3-OT season opener against the Grizz.

NO MORE FREE MINUTES FOR BARRETT. CAN'T STAND THAT SHOW. SEEN IT SO MANY TIMES. 3-18 MY ASS. SIT THAT BOY DOWN WHEN HE SUX.

It's really so funny when some list comes out and RJ isn't on it and Knick fans scream DISRESPECT DISRESPECT but the bottom-line is, if you don't have some kind of HomerRoseyBlindersOn that so far in his career he is  a NETLOSINGPLAYER on more nights than not.

How you gonna be on a young best this or that list when the scales still tip that way consistently?

So far he helps teams lose.

Chip gonna tell me ONE BAD GAME WHY YOU SCREAMING LIKE THAT.

But we seen that one game a thousand times already.

Year four. Time is up. He better bring it, now, or bench it, or we are gonna hurt.

*** he always looks more comfortable with the second-unit crew anyway

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 20, 2022, 10:24:52 AM
Solid outing last night - more than I expected

The five stars -  last to first   


FIVE -  Evan Fournier
FOUR - Jalen Brunson
THREE -  Caam Reddish
TWO -  Julius Randle
ONE - ISIAH HARTENSTEIN
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 20, 2022, 10:42:27 AM
Someone has to say it

Nice effort - though in a tough loss - by Donovan Mitchell last night.

Games like last night show we may be almost there (top 4, conference).  The "this one guy aint gettin us anywhere" talk can cease.
Title: Re: YOU RIGHT CAM REDDISH NEEDS TO START!!!
Post by: elephant on October 20, 2022, 11:09:03 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on October 20, 2022, 09:55:11 AM
but not in place of Fournier, in place of RJ!

The free minutes for RJ have GOT to come to an end.

It is hard to fathom that the PHYSICAL COST of getting Mitchell was apparently, reportedly ONLY RJ + IQ.

WE GONNA FEEL THAT FOR A WHILE.

You are going to talk to me about draft picks????? We haven't drafted a player whose career looks as good as DM's is looking since 1987 and arguably since 85. WTF you worried about draft picks for? That's like 60 players over the last third of a century....NOT ONE. A 60-1 shot we end up crying over one of those draft picks.

Ain't gonna be no missed Wembanyama opp when he's on the roster he helps teams win. People mumbling "unprotected" like it means holy grail.

Fun stuff last night. Was super happy for Hartenstein whose pre-season had screamed third-string center and nothing more.

And Brunson with that regulation end magic stop. Lots of fun. Evan lands that shot and we're almost up there with the legendary 2006 3-OT season opener against the Grizz.

NO MORE FREE MINUTES FOR BARRETT. CAN'T STAND THAT SHOW. SEEN IT SO MANY TIMES. 3-18 MY ASS. SIT THAT BOY DOWN WHEN HE SUX.

It's really so funny when some list comes out and RJ isn't on it and Knick fans scream DISRESPECT DISRESPECT but the bottom-line is, if you don't have some kind of HomerRoseyBlindersOn that so far in his career he is overwhelmingly a NETLOSINGPLAYER on more nights than not.

How you gonna be on a young best this or that list when the scales still tip that way consistently?

So far he helps teams lose.

Chip gonna tell me ONE BAD GAME WHY YOU SCREAMING LIKE THAT.

But we seen that one game a thousand times already.

Year four. Time is up. He better bring it, now, or bench it, or we are gonna hurt.

*** he always looks more comfortable with the second-unit crew anyway

One fucking game.
Don't be an idiot.
This is way too premature. 



(yes, yes, yes, i had the same thoughts)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 20, 2022, 12:01:52 PM
BTW, surprised that Lester hasn't weighed in on the great matchup between Zion and Ben Simmons last night.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 20, 2022, 12:12:03 PM
Any time I'm tempted to talk Ben I just watch this again instead... https://twitter.com/NBAonTNT/status/1519159904208134150 (https://twitter.com/NBAonTNT/status/1519159904208134150)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 20, 2022, 12:16:01 PM
Year four. Time is up. He better bring it, now, or bench it, or we are gonna hurt.


Extension is done.  He's ours for a while.  This game - and this type of team, makes it so Barrett could very well look real good in Game 2 or 3.

But still....

"Net loss player"

Well said, Les.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 20, 2022, 12:18:29 PM
Quote from: elephant on October 20, 2022, 12:01:52 PM
BTW, surprised that Lester hasn't weighed in on the great matchup between Zion and Ben Simmons last night.

The alarming stat on Simmons was just 23 minutes.  And this with Curry and Harris down.

Cut him in fantasy after Game 1?

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 20, 2022, 12:22:23 PM
I was not worried about the preseason performance of Reddish. He picked up where he was before he had to check out last season. We may regret not having extended him up front


Could be.

Is he more valuable at the deadline as an ending deal? That may help.

Cam's an insane athlete.  We have to accept his bad (occasinal bad decision, shot, turnover or D rotation) to get to his good.  Up to Thibs how many minutes this is for

He's FUN CAM.
Title: Aarff Barf
Post by: chipstern on October 20, 2022, 01:04:59 PM
Hysterical Idiot
Title: Re: Aarff Barf
Post by: chipstern on October 20, 2022, 03:17:16 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 20, 2022, 01:04:59 PM
Hysterical Idiot

One Game

And A Dawg Phatwah
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 20, 2022, 04:16:41 PM
I do not think we can do well playing RJ and Fournier together for significant stretches this season as neither has the pop prevalent in today
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 20, 2022, 04:44:03 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 20, 2022, 04:16:41 PM
I do not think we can do well playing RJ and Fournier together for significant stretches this season as neither has the pop prevalent in today

I've always thought the same with RJ and Julius. Not sure about the "pop" quality, just that they don't seem to blend well together.
Title: Thanksgiving
Post by: chipstern on October 20, 2022, 05:01:00 PM
Quote from: elephant on October 20, 2022, 04:44:03 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 20, 2022, 04:16:41 PM
I do not think we can do well playing RJ and Fournier together for significant stretches this season as neither has the pop prevalent in today

I've always thought the same with RJ and Julius. Not sure about the "pop" quality, just that they don't seem to blend well together.

Rather a broad generalization, don't you think? 

Let's revisit all of these assumptions and presumptions come Thanksgiving, when we have a reasonable sample of games. 

I mean, it was, and remains, a widely held opinion that Julius is an overpaid, overrated, ball stopping assclown, and we'd have been better off trading him for a handful of magic beans and giving the keys to the car to Obi. 

ADDITION BY SUBTRACTION. 

I love, Obi, but last night Julius meshed well with Jalen, scoring, boarding, distributing, and playing with force, focus and a purposeful degree of patience and calm which bodes well for a bounceback year. 

Hartenstein, Reddish, Randle and Brunson stepped up.  Fournier played okay,  Mitchell and RJ seemingly had the opening night jitters.  IQ and Obi need some face time with Rose.  They both struggled to get on track at the beginning of last season as well.  As did RJ, though preseason gave one an exalted set of expectations. 

Again, let's let our Knicks get their feet wet and some experience playing with each other and under combat condiditons. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 20, 2022, 05:34:47 PM
Quote from: elephant on October 20, 2022, 04:44:03 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 20, 2022, 04:16:41 PM
I do not think we can do well playing RJ and Fournier together for significant stretches this season as neither has the pop prevalent in today

I've always thought the same with RJ and Julius. Not sure about the "pop" quality, just that they don't seem to blend well together.

There was a time last night when I couldnt help thinking how we would look without Barrett.  Not even with Donovan.  Offense would be pretty interesting
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 20, 2022, 05:36:29 PM
I mean, it was, and remains, a widely held opinion that Julius is an overpaid, overrated, ball stopping assclown, and we would have been better off trading him for a handful of magic beans and giving the keys to the car to Obi.


Yeah

They call this the DUMBASS take.
Title: Re: Thanksgiving
Post by: elephant on October 20, 2022, 06:20:10 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 20, 2022, 05:01:00 PM
Quote from: elephant on October 20, 2022, 04:44:03 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 20, 2022, 04:16:41 PM
I do not think we can do well playing RJ and Fournier together for significant stretches this season as neither has the pop prevalent in today

I've always thought the same with RJ and Julius. Not sure about the "pop" quality, just that they don't seem to blend well together.

Rather a broad generalization, don't you think? 

Let's revisit all of these assumptions and presumptions come Thanksgiving, when we have a reasonable sample of games. 

I mean, it was, and remains, a widely held opinion that Julius is an overpaid, overrated, ball stopping assclown, and we'd have been better off trading him for a handful of magic beans and giving the keys to the car to Obi. 

ADDITION BY SUBTRACTION. 

I love, Obi, but last night Julius meshed well with Jalen, scoring, boarding, distributing, and playing with force, focus and a purposeful degree of patience and calm which bodes well for a bounceback year. 

Hartenstein, Reddish, Randle and Brunson stepped up.  Fournier played okay,  Mitchell and RJ seemingly had the opening night jitters.  IQ and Obi need some face time with Rose.  They both struggled to get on track at the beginning of last season as well.  As did RJ, though preseason gave one an exalted set of expectations. 

Again, let's let our Knicks get their feet wet and some experience playing with each other and under combat condiditons.

I hear you. Maybe Brunson will be the difference maker.

But I don't think I made a broad generalization. Not about talent, but style of play. Chemistry.

Did you see the opening Lakers loss to Warriors? It's not just that one team seemed more talented than the other, but that they played entirely different games. The Warriors use of space and movement is beautiful. A kind of poetry and dance. It's funny too how it generates a kind of confident but unselfish play, even among the young guys.

I know Curry is a superstar. But it just feels that they all work in concert. I mean, you're the jazz guy. It's about playing and listening, no?

I'm just not sure how fluid a starting unit with RJ and Randle could ever be. I'd be happy to be surprised.
Title: Re: Thanksgiving
Post by: chipstern on October 20, 2022, 06:24:56 PM
Quote from: elephant on October 20, 2022, 06:20:10 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 20, 2022, 05:01:00 PM
Quote from: elephant on October 20, 2022, 04:44:03 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 20, 2022, 04:16:41 PM
I do not think we can do well playing RJ and Fournier together for significant stretches this season as neither has the pop prevalent in today

I've always thought the same with RJ and Julius. Not sure about the "pop" quality, just that they don't seem to blend well together.

Rather a broad generalization, don't you think? 

Let's revisit all of these assumptions and presumptions come Thanksgiving, when we have a reasonable sample of games. 

I mean, it was, and remains, a widely held opinion that Julius is an overpaid, overrated, ball stopping assclown, and we'd have been better off trading him for a handful of magic beans and giving the keys to the car to Obi. 

ADDITION BY SUBTRACTION. 

I love, Obi, but last night Julius meshed well with Jalen, scoring, boarding, distributing, and playing with force, focus and a purposeful degree of patience and calm which bodes well for a bounceback year. 

Hartenstein, Reddish, Randle and Brunson stepped up.  Fournier played okay,  Mitchell and RJ seemingly had the opening night jitters.  IQ and Obi need some face time with Rose.  They both struggled to get on track at the beginning of last season as well.  As did RJ, though preseason gave one an exalted set of expectations. 

Again, let's let our Knicks get their feet wet and some experience playing with each other and under combat condiditons.

I hear you. Maybe Brunson will be the difference maker.

But I don't think I made a broad generalization. Not about talent, but style of play. Chemistry.

Did you see the opening Lakers loss to Warriors? It's not just that one team seemed more talented than the other, but that they played entirely different games. The Warriors use of space and movement is beautiful. A kind of poetry and dance. It's funny too how it generates a kind of confident but unselfish play, even among the young guys.

I know Curry is a superstar. But it just feels that they all work in concert. I mean, you're the Jazz guy. It's about playing and listening, no?

I'm just not sure how fluid a starting unit with RJ and Randle could ever be. I'd be happy to be surprised.

There offensive sets are a thing of beauty. 

Obviously Curry is a stellar talent. 

But their offensive motion, ball movement and constant cutting is a thing of beauty. 

Like a great rhythm section...responsive to every chord change and modulation.  Always swinging. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 20, 2022, 10:12:20 PM
Player motion is key, along with a willingness to swing and move and try to pop guys open for feeding.

As for Evan, he was instrumental in helping the Grizz find confidence in their collective three point stroke. He left guys very open to shoot. Getting contested shots hit on you is one thing, that was something else. That said he did his offense with more poise and effectiveness than RJ.

RJ plus Evan plus Randle equals too much standing around.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 21, 2022, 12:00:54 PM
Warriors choose to run a motion structure.  And have the talent to make it look good

Most teams do not.  And if they tried - might just fail more miserably than they already are.

Knicks are looking to create mismatches and open looks.  Year 3 under Thibs. Let it simmer.
Title: DAMN
Post by: chipstern on October 21, 2022, 08:30:35 PM
R
We
Having
Fun YET?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 21, 2022, 10:05:15 PM
We look a lot better against a less deep team.

It is a long season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 22, 2022, 01:30:58 AM
Great bounce back from RJ and IQ.

And, man, Brunson. Just two games in and he seems exactly what we need.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 22, 2022, 02:57:42 AM
I am absolutely onboard with the minutes distribution this game. It is a good way for Thibs to get the best out of everyone while keeping bodies fresh.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 22, 2022, 06:04:28 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 22, 2022, 02:57:42 AM
I am absolutely onboard with the minutes distribution this game. It is a good way for Thibs to get the best out of everyone while keeping bodies fresh.

Thibs EVOLVING.

Who'd have thunk it

Not SeeMoan MillerVar
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 22, 2022, 11:30:51 AM
Quote from: chipstern on October 22, 2022, 06:04:28 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 22, 2022, 02:57:42 AM
I am absolutely onboard with the minutes distribution this game. It is a good way for Thibs to get the best out of everyone while keeping bodies fresh.

Thibs EVOLVING.

Who'd have thunk it

Not SeeMoan MillerVar

Yes, I think if we're always winning by more than 20 points throughout the game, you'll see extraordinary evolution on Mr. Thib's part.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 22, 2022, 12:47:30 PM
It was nip and tuck till the subs got rolling. It was a close game for the first eight minutes.
Title: NO FREE MINUTES
Post by: lesterluv on October 22, 2022, 04:06:32 PM
eight minutes, exactly the point at which Thibs benched RJ for the first substitution!

***lol, lol, just F'n wit ya Chipster

Good stuff last night, what should have happened happened
Title: Thibs EVOLVING?
Post by: carlos123 on October 23, 2022, 12:21:07 AM
Quote from: chipstern on October 22, 2022, 06:04:28 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 22, 2022, 02:57:42 AM
I am absolutely onboard with the minutes distribution this game. It is a good way for Thibs to get the best out of everyone while keeping bodies fresh.

Thibs EVOLVING.

Who'd have thunk it

Not SeeMoan MillerVar

Chipirin, I think you are just fishing for your coaching job, to be shared with Fac.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AL9nZEUWyZ_apOPTdGlqcKBffNBVEcxA9EUW0pNrQKxH59VyhqVLYQtVJeviFcj3B_0w1iKufLva7NhMbcN-8gZrBjxHeQeE78Km7lcp6iWfn38JALSfHCfm7XRHz3mLMgxb6h92emGl6CcFjq-4WG3td1dY=w588-h757-no?authuser=0)
Title: Mucho Gusto
Post by: chipstern on October 23, 2022, 02:48:49 PM
(https://cdn.britannica.com/55/92955-050-DE2D4E1E/Simon-Bolivar-English-stipple-engraving.jpg?w=740&h=416&c=crop)
Title: Carlos Narrows Down His Candidates For Knicks' Next Head Coach
Post by: chipstern on October 23, 2022, 04:44:16 PM
(https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost.s3.amazonaws.com/public/PZZCP72JIS5BQAVQ3KEF7EP524.jpg&w=250&h=165)

(http://mediacloud.theweek.com/image/upload/v1666295455/268041_768_rgb.jpg)

(https://i0.wp.com/media-cldnry.s-nbcnews.com/image/upload/t_fit-760w,f_auto,q_auto:best/rockcms/2022-10/221020-liz-truss-lettuce-protest-one-time-use-se-1212p-985c50.jpg?resize=696%2C464&ssl=1)

(https://images2.minutemediacdn.com/image/fetch/w_736,h_485,c_fill,g_auto,f_auto/https%3A%2F%2Fdailyknicks.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fgetty-images%2F2017%2F07%2F1190710236-850x560.jpeg)

Title: Rooting For Reddish
Post by: chipstern on October 23, 2022, 05:28:48 PM
(https://media.bleacherreport.com/image/upload/x_0,y_468,w_1800,h_1197,c_crop/w_800,h_533,c_fill/v1666232275/fqbt53zagkaon1mvoxsz.jpg)

Looks like it is going to be a while before Quentin Grimes is ready to roll, pain free. 

Make the most of it, young talent. 




Title: Re: Carlos Narrows Down His Candidates For Knicks' Next Head Coach
Post by: carlos123 on October 23, 2022, 10:33:12 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 23, 2022, 04:44:16 PM
(https://images2.minutemediacdn.com/image/fetch/w_736,h_485,c_fill,g_auto,f_auto/https%3A%2F%2Fdailyknicks.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fgetty-images%2F2017%2F07%2F1190710236-850x560.jpeg)    MILLER

(https://images.dailykos.com/images/605821/large/VoteDforDemocracy.jpg?1540970389)                       FAC

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AL9nZEXHnA1-51S8uyVQaQqiVckcdWOUphgLt5-C1gA3-aF4pO-cQqANdVYDZ5ya4wYOsqwsEcdAehWvbkjV9z-MSoTS0NqhOYk-1mMRB0pNWV7N0y7oUt_cmb0O26OrDyULWHLQ0qWXlZQbX5GiVtTbf_DO=w643-h493-no?authuser=0)  CHIP
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 23, 2022, 11:43:51 PM
D MITCH

31
32
37
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 23, 2022, 11:59:07 PM
Yeah, those are just damn gaudy numbers.

Painful!
Title: yup....
Post by: lesterluv on October 24, 2022, 11:15:34 AM
https://theathletic.com/3723694/2022/10/24/donovan-mitchell-cavaliers/ (https://theathletic.com/3723694/2022/10/24/donovan-mitchell-cavaliers/)

In his first three games in Cleveland, Mitchell has put on a show on both ends of the floor. Hes shown how he can facilitate and create shots on the offensive end. Bickerstaff has noted through training camp, preseason and the first three games of the season how Mitchell can be a floor general. He watches how Mitchell talks to his teammates and tries to get them in the right spots. Bickerstaff notices how Mitchell also reads defenses and gives guys suggestions on the floor on what to do.

Defensively, hes contesting shots, causing deflections, getting steals and grabbing rebounds. Hes staying in front of his man and putting on pressure defensively.

Taking responsibility too:
https://www.cleveland.com/cavs/2022/10/donovan-mitchell-laments-disaster-of-fourth-quarter-apologizes-for-late-game-turnovers-despite-another-historic-night.html (https://www.cleveland.com/cavs/2022/10/donovan-mitchell-laments-disaster-of-fourth-quarter-apologizes-for-late-game-turnovers-despite-another-historic-night.html)

So who would that third first round pick have delivered...a Knox? a Balkman? a John Thomas? Maybe another Donovan Mitchell in 2028?

Only one man can ease the pain of this unmitigated fiasco.


RJ Barrett, you better best bring it

* no pressure hon

** if I keep seeing more of those twice-weekly 4 for 17s Im gonna, Im gonna, Im gonna...I don't know what Im gonna

*** what does Chip call me? An hysterical idiot? Me da idjit? Listen pineapple lettuce eggplant head...

Why are apostrophes and m dashes illegal on this web site. Why?
Title: What Ifism
Post by: chipstern on October 24, 2022, 12:26:49 PM
Another pissy, bitchy threat from the Dawg, to amplify a geek chorus of whatifism. 

The issue was NEVER Mitchell's talent

BUT rolling over for an Ainge anal massage.

Dawg has annointed RJ as his Elfrid Memorial Scapegoat, pausing only to purchase season tickets at Barclays. 

Go fuck yourself.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 24, 2022, 12:56:46 PM
BUT rolling over for an Ainge anal massage.


So fucking what if it makes your team better?  NY could be the talk of the league right now after acquiring the top 2 guards in offseason.

Onward, Leon.  Learn from this.  You still have my confidence.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 24, 2022, 01:00:57 PM
" Mitchell is a top 30 player.  The Knicks do not have a top 60 player"

-  JVG

Keep an eye on Brunson for that second part.  But imagine i we had added both......

Nah....never mind.  I like Grimes.

heh

(Grimes "officially out" tonight, per some dude on Twitter, by the way - though Chip's info on Toppin the one game was incorrect, so who knows - we may see him)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 24, 2022, 01:06:48 PM
Meanwhile the LAKERS continue to be the watch em melt team early on.

Ham is right.  He says as long as they are competing he is fine.  Poor shot by Westbrook clanged and led to go ahead FG last thirty seconds. 

Russ actually acted on the 2 for 1 at an inopportune time, up 1 at :27.  hen it went Lillard THREE, LBJ dunk. Grant (great pickup) driving layup and then the LeBron miss to tie.

 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 24, 2022, 01:09:52 PM
The issue was NEVER Mitchells  talent


Collecting TALENT is what it is all about.  And you dont get that chance every year, as you know.  So often fans whine how nobody wants to come here or we dont have the space, etc..........

And yet we passed, just so Danny Fucking Ainge couldnt make us look bad.

A Chipstern HOHOHO (This trumps  a heh).
Title: Re: What Ifism
Post by: elephant on October 24, 2022, 02:34:37 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 24, 2022, 12:26:49 PM
Another pissy, bitchy threat from the Dawg, to amplify a geek chorus of whatifism. 

The issue was NEVER Mitchell's talent

BUT rolling over for an Ainge anal massage.

Dawg has annointed RJ as his Elfrid Memorial Scapegoat, pausing only to purchase season tickets at Barclays. 

Go fuck yourself.

You're too hard here.

The question was indeed about Mitchell's talent....and RJ's.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 24, 2022, 02:35:17 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 24, 2022, 12:56:46 PM
BUT rolling over for an Ainge anal massage.


So fucking what if it makes your team better?  NY could be the talk of the league right now after acquiring the top 2 guards in offseason.

Onward, Leon.  Learn from this.  You still have my confidence.

Agree!
Title: Re: What Ifism
Post by: lesterluv on October 24, 2022, 02:36:09 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 24, 2022, 12:26:49 PM
The issue was NEVER Mitchell's talent BUT rolling over for an Ainge anal massage.

There will always be some inconvenience and hardships!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 24, 2022, 02:37:57 PM
Quote from: elephant on October 24, 2022, 02:35:17 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on October 24, 2022, 12:56:46 PM
BUT rolling over for an Ainge anal massage.


So fucking what if it makes your team better?  NY could be the talk of the league right now after acquiring the top 2 guards in offseason.

Onward, Leon.  Learn from this.  You still have my confidence.

Agree!

yep yep
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 24, 2022, 02:41:18 PM
I'm no fan of looking back. Let's just not invent any mythologies.

Right now, we seem to have the point guard that I've been waiting for a long, long time.

No complaints!

If RJ or Grimes can take a huge step forward, I'd be delighted to see it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 24, 2022, 02:43:50 PM
The Lakers made all these noises about being so much better this year without adding any real talent!

Delusional.

Title: Endorsement
Post by: carlos123 on October 24, 2022, 04:10:06 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on October 24, 2022, 12:56:46 PM
Onward, Leon.  Learn from this.  You still have my confidence.

I am sure Mr. Rose is ecstatic with Chamacos endorsement.

Quote from: chamacocartero8 on October 24, 2022, 01:09:52 PM
A Chipstern HOHOHO (This trumps  a heh).

OH NO!!! Your heh is essential

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AL9nZEXEN12UkdHTdHG1hm-DcBeNggHmjGIhJxuHBb00oHZQl0beTWH6Dg5sj8bgk05_RDnFP2Z0irBn4F-mkraPlFnfxExW2JYULL28priahTlAfy1Om07J5XOS82nQ-LF_Zj082lO-0qDOfKTK4SLSYvB5=w368-h570-no?authuser=0)
Title: Lakers
Post by: carlos123 on October 24, 2022, 04:16:03 PM
Quote from: elephant on October 24, 2022, 02:43:50 PM
The Lakers made all these noises about being so much better this year without adding any real talent!

Delusional.

I think Chamaco was very impressed with the addition of Patrick Beverley.
Title: Where's Biz? Did he die of Covid too?
Post by: lesterluv on October 24, 2022, 06:31:55 PM
we need a poll:

Your top priority for Leon Rose, choose one:

◊ amassing talent
◊ avoiding anal massages
Title: Re: Where's Biz? Did he die of Covid too?
Post by: carlos123 on October 24, 2022, 06:59:14 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on October 24, 2022, 06:31:55 PM
we need a poll:

Your top priority for Leon Rose, choose one:

A- ◊ amassing talent
B- ◊ avoiding anal massages

I love my doggie, but I have to go with B if this is the massage provider

(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR7rQDZ-8QstiGOrm32_yyV0g-9g4B58jk4FCSRgGHDLI8L2-V5)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 24, 2022, 08:00:17 PM
Some niiiiiice talent in this game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 24, 2022, 09:55:05 PM
I LOVE Brunson's game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 24, 2022, 10:45:28 PM
Quote from: elephant on October 24, 2022, 09:55:05 PM
I LOVE Brunson's game.

A more refined Charlie Ward
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 24, 2022, 11:02:50 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 24, 2022, 10:45:28 PM
Quote from: elephant on October 24, 2022, 09:55:05 PM
I LOVE Brunson's game.

A more refined Charlie Ward

A winner.

And tough.

Perfect for New York, no?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 24, 2022, 11:43:40 PM
That was fun game. I was only seething at our sloppiness a few times this game.

Orlando definitely has more talented bigs than it can likely keep. Bol looked damn good.

3 of our guys hit 20. 5 of them hit double figures.

Magnificent game from Jules, including his composure when he got whacked in the head on a drive.

Reddish might be the real deal after all.

Without liking Fournier any more than I usually do, I really like how Thibs is playing him this year.
Title: Progress
Post by: chipstern on October 25, 2022, 09:05:12 AM
Agree, Fac.

Thibs' rotations shaping up in an interesting way.

IQ ahead of Rose in the pecking order at PG.  Keeping DR in the scheme, but kind of like in case of fire, break glass.
Title: Rose
Post by: chipstern on October 25, 2022, 09:07:40 AM
Spotting DR'S minutes for limited time with with both first AND second units, so DR is still ambulatory and peaking come playoffs.
Title: PGs in Reserve
Post by: chipstern on October 25, 2022, 09:10:36 AM
Thibs FINALLY has his captain on the floor, and a force in reserve.

BRUNSON
Quickley
Rose
McBride
Arcidiacono
Title: Rose As 11th Man
Post by: chipstern on October 25, 2022, 09:14:49 AM
Spotting Rose's minutes, maxing out his efficiency, building up his stamina, and keeping him ambulatory.

Meanwhile?

Could we be seeing THIS Second Unit?

Hartenstein
Toppin
Reddish
Grimes
Quickley
Title: IQ
Post by: chipstern on October 25, 2022, 09:19:14 AM
Have to double check the stat line.

I do not believe IQ scored at all last night.   But still impacted the game

As I recall I he had something like 8 assists and 5 or 6 rebounds.
Title: Brunson & The Little Three
Post by: chipstern on October 25, 2022, 09:31:13 AM
Jalen is impactful.

Obviously we have no superstars since we whiffed on Mitchell by failing to offload most of our second unit yute and six #1 picks.

God forbid that for once the Knicks grow their own.

And of course, Randle and Barrett are at best, second or third tier players.

But Brunson's impact on our KnickKnacks JR & RJ evolves night by night.

Our LITTLE THREE all put up 20 + Plus last night, did they not?
Title: A Steady Hand
Post by: chipstern on October 25, 2022, 09:41:29 AM
I like what the Magic are building.

Just kept hanging in there, even when we applied the defensive screws in the second half.

And when they made a run and closed to what, six, Jalen with the bucket plus the AND + 1

Leadership.

Meanwhile, Orlando

Carter, Bamba, Wagner
Banchero, Bol
Wagner, Isaac

Bol Bol put on a show.

Damn

Has had a long road to last night, overcoming injuries, experience baby steps.  Is this year four?  Denver gave up on him.   Prescient of Magic to take a flyer on him.  Looks like they've got themselves a unicorn.
Title: Re: Brunson & The Little Three
Post by: lesterluv on October 25, 2022, 01:04:09 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 25, 2022, 09:31:13 AM
Jalen is impactful.

Obviously we have no superstars since we whiffed on Mitchell by failing to offload most of our second unit yute and six #1 picks.

God forbid that for once the Knicks grow their own.


lmao..this is such nonsense mr. potato head. By all accounts the offer we wouldn't meet was Barrett + Quickley + 3 unprotected.

Far from leaving the shelf bare, it would have left our garden robustly well-stocked: Grimes, Obi, Reddish, Deuce, Mitch, Jericho...
And all our vets...plus 3 first rounders from others, plus our own picks every other year. It's called sitting pretty.

Empty post-apocalyptic supermarket? Nope - try talk of the league.

I'm enjoying our present show just fine, but quit making up trash to hash.


*** if second-year Renaldo Balkman, Kevin Knox, Andy Rautins, Mike Sweetney, Eric Chenowith, Jerrod Mustaf or Tom Riker had been mentioned in this trade you'd be screaming your head off about keeping 'em.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 25, 2022, 01:07:28 PM
Quote from: elephant on October 24, 2022, 11:02:50 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 24, 2022, 10:45:28 PM
Quote from: elephant on October 24, 2022, 09:55:05 PM
I LOVE Brunson's game.

A more refined Charlie Ward

A winner.

And tough.

Perfect for New York, no?

Play of the game:

That the play starts off with seven footer Mo Bamba trying and failing to post up human fire hydrant Jalen Brunson is the icing on the cake.

And what a pass by Toppin.

(https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fbucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-437e-9518-adb32be77984.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F48f9140c-3878-46de-9b07-6eae0e1791ca_480x266.gif)

Moments like this convince you that we're only getting a glimpse into his hoops intellect and awareness.
Title: Re: Brunson & The Little Three
Post by: chipstern on October 25, 2022, 01:12:03 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on October 25, 2022, 01:04:09 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 25, 2022, 09:31:13 AM
Jalen is impactful.

Obviously we have no superstars since we whiffed on Mitchell by failing to offload most of our second unit yute and six #1 picks.

God forbid that for once the Knicks grow their own.


lmao..this is such nonsense mr. potato head. By all accounts the offer we wouldn't meet was Barrett + Quickley + 3 unprotected.

Far from leaving the shelf bare, it would have left our garden robustly well-stocked: Grimes, Obi, Reddish, Deuce, Mitch, Jericho...
And all our vets...plus 3 first rounders from others, plus our own picks every other year. It's called sitting pretty.

Empty post-apocalyptic supermarket? Nope - try talk of the league.

I'm enjoying our present show just fine, but quit making up trash to hash.

By ALL Accounts?

Says

U

L Frid[ge]
Title: Re: A Steady Hand
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 25, 2022, 02:42:42 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 25, 2022, 09:41:29 AM
I like what the Magic are building.

Just kept hanging in there, even when we applied the defensive screws in the second half.

And when they made a run and closed to what, six, Jalen with the bucket plus the AND + 1

Leadership.

Meanwhile, Orlando

Carter, Bamba, Wagner
Banchero, Bol
Wagner, Isaac

Bol Bol put on a show.

Damn

Has had a long road to last night, overcoming injuries, experience baby steps.  Is this year four?  Denver gave up on him.   Prescient of Magic to take a flyer on him.  Looks like they've got themselves a unicorn.

Banchero makes ORL a much better team

This is why if you dont have a top 5 pick you try to get one.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 25, 2022, 02:57:42 PM
Box score it up....

Always like to look at points vs shots attempted

The good -

Banchero   21 on 13
Bol     19 on 10
Carter    17 on 10

Mitch   14 on 7
Toppin    10 on 6
Julius     25 on 19
Jalen     21 on 16
FunCam    7 on 4  (underutiized)


The bad.......


Anthony   14 on 18
Wagner     14 on 15

Barrett    20 on 19
Fournier   8 on 8



Floor game madness (assists, steals, blocks) ......

Banchero just 4 total in 33 minutes (must improve this)
Wagner    5 in 36
Anthony     5 in 29
Bol's 4 blk in 20 the only real positive

NY...........

As bad as he shot, QUICKLEY was tops,  9 in 23 minutes
Jalen     8 in 33

The bad.....

Hartenstein    1 in 19
Evan     2 in 27
RJ   1 in 37.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 25, 2022, 03:03:15 PM
lmao..this is such nonsense mr. potato head. By all accounts the offer we wouldn't meet was Barrett + Quickley + 3 unprotected.


Certainly depends on who you blieve.   NY media did a nice job shielding Leon.  Never quite sure how many picks in these scenarios Ainge needed.

Moving forward though - I guess if you liked that deal (I would have been fine with it but preferred something with Grimes where we could keep then possibly deal RJ later), the tradeoff is Barrett's current new contract cash vs what we were paying into the bank account of D Mitch.   Bears watching if we want to keep analyzing this deal.  I am sure Chip will alert us when a draft pick we kept out of the deal (whether true or not) does fairly well here or is moves for something even (in his mind) better.. He's good at that shizz.
   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 25, 2022, 05:15:57 PM
Whos report on what deal when are we believing exactly?

There were so many different ones reported out over the weeks of wrangling. Some I liked better than others.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 25, 2022, 06:24:23 PM
Utah owes a good deal of its hot start to the haul it got from Cleveland.

I do not see Cleveland being much farther along than the Jazz were when they had Mitchell. This is all before the exchange of draft picks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 25, 2022, 06:53:46 PM
I think "not much farther along than the Jazz were" would be an extremely acceptable place for the Cavs to be at this stage. They didn't make the playoffs last year.

With very significant upside still likely for Garland, Mobley, and yes, Donovan Mitchell, among others; numerous years of prime ahead for still more.

And they're really fun to watch, isn't that what it's ultimately about?

* If it's all about a title shot, which is certainly not precluded for them anyway, I've damn sure wasted my last few decades.

** As for the trade, several of the most reputable reports after our deal went south had the desired offer from Ainge pegged along the way I outlined it earlier. But who really the fuck knows. I expect it would also have, along the lines of the final Cavs deal, included some pick swaps. Not terribly pertinent to me. Those swaps being most dangerous for single superstar dependent or aging core teams. Neither applicable to us. Anyway ...wrtfk. Done and dusted.

*** Rumor has it that Bo's dying wish was to send that same package to the Heat for the earthly remains of Kyle Lowry.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 25, 2022, 07:54:51 PM
Speaking of fun to watch, the Pelicans WITHOUT BI and ZW are putting on a show!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 25, 2022, 07:58:28 PM
Zion's out already?

Heard Kawhi is missing his second game.

Insanity.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 25, 2022, 08:14:15 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 25, 2022, 06:24:23 PM
Utah owes a good deal of its hot start to the haul it got from Cleveland.

I do not see Cleveland being much farther along than the Jazz were when they had Mitchell. This is all before the exchange of draft picks.

I remind you

ITS ABOUT GATHERING ASSETS

(though maybe there is some "Cle. didnt know what to do with the white guy Markaanen" to it)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 25, 2022, 09:28:57 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on October 25, 2022, 07:54:51 PM
Speaking of fun to watch, the Pelicans WITHOUT BI and ZW are putting on a show!

Dyson Daniels playing a role.  Nice.
Title: Message Received - New Julius confirmed
Post by: Kam on October 26, 2022, 12:02:01 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 16, 2021, 11:12:47 AM
The main issue I see with the starters is Randle needing to make the adjustment to Kemba.    Even though Payton was the starter last year, Randle really ran the offense. 

Take a look at Randle's amount of dribbles per touch this season.  Given a better PG this year and he is still dribbling the same amount.  More in fact.  As Randle's answer is always play harder.  Well this time he needs to play smarter.  He needs to trust Kemba with the ball and go back to less ISO, more finding ways to score without being the black hole on offense he sometimes is.


2017-18, LAL: 16.1 points in 26.7 mpg, 51.1 touches/gm, 1.35 dribbles per touch

2018-19, NOP: 21.4 points in 30.6 mpg, 59.5 touches/gm, 1.80 dribbles per touch

2019-20, NYK: 19.5 points in 32.5 mpg, 68.8 touches/gm, 1.67 dribbles per touch

2020-21, NYK: 24.1 points in 37.6 mpg, 83.6 touches/gm, 2.27 dribbles per touch

2021-22, NYK: 21.0 points in 35.6 mpg, 75.6 touches/gm, 2.28 dribbles per touch

2022-2023, NYK:  1.48 dribbles per touch (and 2.8 minutes per game with the ball in his hands.)

Julius has (thus far) answered the questions about him deferring to a "true PG" and shut up the critics who wanted to trade him (hi there!)

Keep up the good work Julius!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 26, 2022, 01:19:44 PM
Dribbles per touch. I didn't even know they kept that stat. A great barometer.

Just 3 games of course, but this is awesome.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 26, 2022, 01:59:42 PM
it's early on, but eye test shows the same and we approve!
Title: Rotations
Post by: chipstern on October 26, 2022, 02:44:00 PM
Jalen Brunson is a DAWG. 

Playing with pace, force, toughness, leadership and...SMARTS. 

Orlando's puppies were tough and athletic, came within six; JR and JB combined where our Lead Dawg got the ball in his sweet spot, in the oft-analytics-maligned midrange where Brunson is MONEY.  He duped his man, nailed a twelve footer, and...THE AND ONE.  The old school three pointer. 

Banchero torched us in the first half, and Anthony started off on fire, but in the second half we applied the TibsStifle. 

A pleasure to not dread the third quarter secenario where we shit the bed. 

I believe, least ways, I HOPE, Thibs is inching towards more minutes and responsibility for the second unit. 
Mitchell [30], Hartenstein [18]. 
Randle [34], Toppin [14]
Barrett [38], Fournier [27], Reddish [14]
Brunson [33], Quickley [23], Rose [9]

I would expect to see Grimes get some minutes from Barrett, Fournier and Rose. 

Barrett played some with the second unit, which was interesting. 

Brunson probably would've played more, but he picked up some fouls. 

I should like to see Our LITTLE THREE playing more in the 28-32 range. 

Randle & Toppin both played with pace, energy and joy, combining for 35-12-5.  Me likey.  Thibs warming up to Obi's pace, and worth noting that his behind the back assist to a spriting RJ was facilitated by Toppin's active hands knocking the ball free and triggering the break. 

RJ still dialing in his midrange jumper and hoops off of the bounce, but was 3-7 from trey and really pushing that ball North-South.  Whatever his shortcomings, RJ has no rear view mirror, shitty starts don't upset him, he just keeps coming.  He's committed to BEING A KNICK, and every game he gets a little closer to his dream...AND OURS. 

However, it is what IQ did that was significant. 

He was 0-5 from the field in 23 minutes, but six boards, EIGHT Assists, and committing on D.  He should watch some film of that Jet Ski, Jose Alvarado on New Orleans.  Pushes the pace like crazy and a mad dawg on D. 

Some adversity is forthcoming, and how we come back will be signficant, but we came back in the second half from an ass whipping in Memphis, and no moral victories, but no quit either. 

Milwaukee beckons, but we can't look past Charlotte.  Hornets punked Hawks on Sunday, and guess who came up big time?  DENNIS SMITH JR.  Happy for the kid.  And ex-Kentucky center Nick Richards came up with 20 in 20 on 9-9 with 11 boards, and Kelly Oubre was hitting his threes, 24 & 10 boards.  Even without Ball and Rozier...dangerous. 

PS: My GOD do I love what they've put together in New Orleans.  Lakers got one ring out of AD, but think they miss Ball, Ingraham, Hart and all those UNPROTECTED #1 picks, eLfridge?  They doubled down by trading more #1 picks + Kuzma + Caldwell-Pope for Westbrook.  They could sure use the shooting they gave up. 

PPS: Sometimes the best moves are the ones you DON'T MAKE.  But, hey, that's me. 

PPPS: No Carmelo Bandwagons?   
Title: Your New York Knicks [GREAT START]
Post by: chipstern on October 26, 2022, 07:50:51 PM
Who ARE These Guys?
Title: Damn
Post by: chipstern on October 26, 2022, 10:31:03 PM
A thriller.

Brunson.

Man.
Title: THE REAL F'IN DEAL
Post by: carlos123 on October 26, 2022, 10:50:25 PM
JALEN  BRUNSON

(https://clutchpoints.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/knicks-rumors-the-next-moves-new-york-could-make-to-clear-space-for-jalen-brunson-in-free-agency.jpeg)

(https://clutchpoints.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/Jalen-Brunson-Knicks--1000x600.jpeg)

(https://fadeawayworld.net/.image/t_share/MTkyODE4OTk2NDk0NDc2NTA5/usatsi_19176688-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 26, 2022, 11:24:26 PM
A thriller.

Brunson.

Is.

The.

Man.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 26, 2022, 11:29:32 PM
Two notable moments.

Julius' fighting for that clutch rebound and basket in last minute of regulation.

RJ making the clutch free throws at the end of overtime.

(oh, about that, nice work, um, next time just get it back to Jalen, m'kay?)
Title: THE REAL F-IN DEAL
Post by: carlos123 on October 27, 2022, 12:10:10 AM
Jalen just would NOT let them LOSE this game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 27, 2022, 01:53:27 AM
It is good to see DSJ playing decent NBA basketball. Really glad he took the loss.

We have a good group of useful players. This season is starting out quite fun.

What is the record im for most overtime games by a team in a season?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 27, 2022, 10:07:08 AM
Quote from: elephant on October 26, 2022, 11:24:26 PM
A thriller.

Brunson.

Is.

The.

Man.

I think we may have a legit All Star.

Big Two

Looking for a THREE

Leon.........you have time - nothing is happening now - but lay that groundwork.   
Title: Re: THE REAL F-IN DEAL
Post by: Kam on October 27, 2022, 10:10:45 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on October 27, 2022, 12:10:10 AM
Jalen just would NOT let them LOSE this game.

At the game in the crowd everyone was screaming for the Knicks possessions down the stretch and OT to go through Brunson.  It's nice to have a real PG.   Randle and RJ driving to the hoop against set D and help D is not a recipe for sustained success.  Their forays maybe work 33% of the time in those instances meanwhile I have the utmost confidence in Brunson taking a shot when he gets at least one foot in the paint.  His turnaround jumper is delicious.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 27, 2022, 10:38:01 AM
Andrew Claudio
@AndrewJClaudio_

Players to score 27 points, dish out 13 assists and shoot  66% or better from the field in a single game in Knicks history:

- Michael Ray Richardson (1982)
- Rory Sparrow (1985)
- Jalen Brunson (2022)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 27, 2022, 12:36:03 PM
Negative Notable
Thibs so-called enlightenment with minutes. Fat chance.

Somewhat Negative Notable
I believe Randle's dribbles per touch rate took an upward lurch

I'll leave it at two, so as not to suggest that I'm all negative and shit.
But old habits die slowly, if at all.
And I don't expect folks to radically play or COACH differently than they have their whole career.


Title: Re: THE REAL F-IN DEAL
Post by: chipstern on October 27, 2022, 12:36:35 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 27, 2022, 10:10:45 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on October 27, 2022, 12:10:10 AM
Jalen just would NOT let them LOSE this game.

At the game in the crowd everyone was screaming for the Knicks possessions down the stretch and OT to go through Brunson.  It's nice to have a real PG.   Randle and RJ driving to the hoop against set D and help D is not a recipe for sustained success.  Their forays maybe work 33% of the time in those instances meanwhile I have the utmost confidence in Brunson taking a shot when he gets at least one foot in the paint.  His turnaround jumper is delicious.

Understood.

HOWEVER...

Hoops is a TEAM Game, and it behooves Jalen to create shots for others, and, I mean, JR and RJ are our primary options.  Teams are going to adjust to Jalen.
Title: Roots And Fruits
Post by: chipstern on October 27, 2022, 12:40:12 PM
Been stated elsewhere but bears repeating. 

In the Pre-Thibs/Jalen Epoch, last time we had such a no shudder rudder on the Garden floor, JASON KIDD led us to 54 wins.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 27, 2022, 02:05:21 PM
Quote from: elephant on October 27, 2022, 12:36:03 PM

I believe Randle's dribbles per touch rate took an upward lurch


Last night he was at 1.78 dribbles per touch.  So even on a night where he seemed maybe to regress to old habits based on the eye test, he was still nowhere near as ball-dominant as he was when we had no PG.

He is deferring to Brunson and that is huge.  If those two are on the same page with Brunson in the mode of facilitating first and scoring second, with Randle in the mode of scoring first and facilitating second, we might have the makings of a top 15 offense.

Title: Re: THE REAL F-IN DEAL
Post by: facilitatorn on October 27, 2022, 02:12:06 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 27, 2022, 12:36:35 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 27, 2022, 10:10:45 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on October 27, 2022, 12:10:10 AM
Jalen just would NOT let them LOSE this game.

At the game in the crowd everyone was screaming for the Knicks possessions down the stretch and OT to go through Brunson.  It's nice to have a real PG.   Randle and RJ driving to the hoop against set D and help D is not a recipe for sustained success.  Their forays maybe work 33% of the time in those instances meanwhile I have the utmost confidence in Brunson taking a shot when he gets at least one foot in the paint.  His turnaround jumper is delicious.

Understood.

HOWEVER...

Hoops is a TEAM Game, and it behooves Jalen to create shots for others, and, I mean, JR and RJ are our primary options.  Teams are going to adjust to Jalen.

The dude had 13 dimes to go with his 27 points. Given the portion of our made shots that were threes, he produced more points from his passes than his shots. I think Jalen is doing exactly what it behooves him to do.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 27, 2022, 04:35:59 PM
Also interesting to note that Mitch had 2 fouls in some 37 minutes.

I'm almost certain that never happened before!

Suggests real improvement, no?

(tho not sure how many times we want Mitch on the floor for 37 minutes)
Title: Progress
Post by: chipstern on October 27, 2022, 04:41:38 PM
Baby Steps

But I'll take 'em. 

Title: Redemption? [Well, Progress Anyway]
Post by: chipstern on October 27, 2022, 05:10:09 PM
Julius is playing with joy, energy and purpose.  JALEN, our shiny new BELL COW,  making things, if not easy, EASIER for our bell cow pro temps. 

Still, what would a Knick game be without a Randle Brain Fart or two. 

Responding to an Obvious AND Uncalled Foul by laying the lumber on his transgressor on the next possession downcourt was petulant and indulgent. 

K

And as Clyde pointed out at crunch time, trying to save that ball going out of bounds instead of simply boxing out his man, was playing hard but not smart. 

K

Still, he has been playing with more pace and force.  Missed his treys last night, but only took two.  He has been bully boying his way to the paint, and creating space for that little lean away ten foot turnaround. 

Both JR & RJ were more deferential to Jalen ruddering the ship last night, so their assists totals were not as dramatic as in past games, but Julius had 6 boards, 2 assists, 2 steals, 1 block and only ONE TURNOVER.  Progress.  RJ had 4 turnovers, missed all five of his treys, clanging on midrangers and shots off the bounce, but driving hard, and hit ALL FOUR FREE THROWS, including those two at crunch time.  And had 8 boards.   

Our defense has a long ways to go, least ways, we are very much in October Mode. 

But good ball movement, not hoisting up so many damn threes [well, 11-for-30 last night counts as moderation based on last year], and hitting our foul shots [19-22]. 

Julius looks HAPPY, as thanks to Jalen, he is no longer tasked with running the offense, but being a part of the offense. 

JR & RJ have significant work to do, but they are competing and finding ways to influence winning, as Thibs preaches, even then their shots are not falling. 

JALEN IS ALLOWING EVERYONE TO EXHALE
   
Title: Postscription
Post by: chipstern on October 27, 2022, 05:16:19 PM
Eric Bledsoe was arrested for domestic violence on Wednesday, just hours after reports he is signing with the Shanghai Sharks
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 27, 2022, 06:26:37 PM
Don't get me wrong, i'm very happy with Julius.  Despite the stinky brain farts.  That's just who he is.  You're never going to have a perfect game from him but he is doing just enough good things right now where we can live with the stink.   (athough is this was last season we'd have lost that game and probably blamed the hell outta Julius)

Julius and Cam to me are the same type.  They're mistake making players. But if they're helping more than hurting you can live with it.

If I have to pick some nits:
 1.  We shouldn't be giving up 122 points in regulation to that team.  I looked up at the scoreboard and the Hornets had a 50/40/90 slashline nearly all through the first quarter.  That is ridiculousness.   They had like 8 or 9 guys score in double-figures.  They were without their best offensive weapons.   Concern may be warranted.

2.  I love IQ.  My wife's favorite player.  She loves him.   But man, he's changed.  He's not calling his own number as much.  Maybe his agent told him to start looking like more of a floor general if he wants to get paid, but i can definitely sense a hesitation to shoot it as often as he used to.   This is probably a good thing long-term, but part of me is like... 'what's wrong with IQ?'   i guess it doesn't look natural yet.  He's thinking... this play I won't shoot... this play I will shoot instead of just taking what the defense gives him.  Passing up open looks isn't the IQ I know.

3.  This was my first time watching RJ in person and man is it a trip to watch him move.  He looks like he's moving slower than everyone else out there, but he's just so strong and deliberate about getting to where he is going it doesn't matter that it looks awkward ... except i can't help but wonder if this lack of fluidity will just get worse with age.  He's so different from any other player i can't compare him to anyone else.  His movements are like if you engineered a robot to play basketball.  Not necessarily a bad thing.... just not very graceful.

4. 13 minutes for MY favorite player (OBI) isn't cutting it.  He's got a smooth stroke and the whole offense doesn't grind to a halt when he needs to score.   I absolutely love having Cam and Obi on the floor at the same time.  I feel like they're a cheat code of unlimited athletic potential when they're on the floor together.  I haven't felt like we've had wings this dangerous since Sprewell was menacing PJ Carleisimo.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 27, 2022, 07:00:37 PM
I know this is a Knicks sub but what the GIANTS are doing this year just defies all logic.

The Giants are 6-1 despite allocating a whopping 32%($65.6M) of their salary cap to players who are not playing:


Title: Evolution
Post by: chipstern on October 27, 2022, 07:07:20 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 27, 2022, 07:00:37 PM
I know this is a Knicks sub but what the GIANTS are doing this year just defies all logic.

The Giants are 6-1 despite allocating a whopping 32%($65.6M) of their salary cap to players who are not playing:
  • $44.8M in dead cap (Logan Ryan, Bradberry, Solder etc no longer on the team)
  • and $21.2M to Kenny Golladay who has been hurt/barely played.

Coach Daboll has done for Daniel Jones what Jalen Brunson has done for Julius Randle. 

If the Knicks can perform like the Giants in the Fourth Quarter 66% of the time, it will be a good season. 

Giants have been great fun to watch. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 27, 2022, 07:30:29 PM
Silly stuff.  Rand le works his ass off.  Not giving any of the credit to a teammate.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 27, 2022, 07:32:08 PM
Sucks Giants had to deal Toney
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 27, 2022, 08:19:40 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on October 27, 2022, 07:32:08 PM
Sucks Giants had to deal Toney

Didn't have to.

CHOSE to. 

Some of the last vesitges of The Gettleman Regime.

Eagles took Giants wide receiver target. 

Gettleman traded down with Bears for a 2022 #1 which turned into the 2022/#7 pick, which turned into Evan Neal, taking Kayvon Thibodeaux at 2022/#5 with their own pick. 

Back to 2021, Dallas jumped on Penn State linebacker Micah Parsons right after the Bears used the Giants pick to select QB Justin Fields.  Giants selected Toney at #20. 

Tons of talent. 

[Seemingly] could not stay on the field. 

Lands with the Chiefs.  Great spot for him.  Could come back to haunt the Giants, but clearly they thought it time to move on. 

Be nice if Galladay could touch down on Planet Earth. 
Title: Here Come The Warm Jets
Post by: chipstern on October 27, 2022, 08:28:34 PM
Reality Check Matchups A Coming. 

Giannis tomorrow. 

Then a stretch which will also include a visit to Cleveland to face Donovan Mitchell and the Cavaliers on Sunday

Home games against the Hawks and the Celtics

An additional road contest against the Timberwolves

Knick On Wood
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 27, 2022, 08:28:58 PM
Julius is moving the ball really well.  Fournier, Reddish, and RJ all pound the rock more often.
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/touches?PlayerPosition=F&TeamID=1610612752&dir=D&sort=AVG_DRIB_PER_TOUCH (https://www.nba.com/stats/players/touches?PlayerPosition=F&TeamID=1610612752&dir=D&sort=AVG_DRIB_PER_TOUCH)

But when he has the ball he's still holding onto it longer than any other big/wing on the team.   
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/touches?PlayerPosition=F&TeamID=1610612752&dir=D&sort=AVG_SEC_PER_TOUCH (https://www.nba.com/stats/players/touches?PlayerPosition=F&TeamID=1610612752&dir=D&sort=AVG_SEC_PER_TOUCH)

When it comes to points per touch he suffers because he is still asked to handle the ball too often (for my taste)
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/touches?PlayerPosition=F&TeamID=1610612752&dir=D&sort=PTS_PER_TOUCH (https://www.nba.com/stats/players/touches?PlayerPosition=F&TeamID=1610612752&dir=D&sort=PTS_PER_TOUCH)


Cam is 6th in points per touch league-wide of those who have at least 20 touches.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 27, 2022, 08:30:24 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 27, 2022, 08:28:58 PM
Julius is moving the ball really well.  Fournier, Reddish, and RJ all pound the rock more often.
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/touches?PlayerPosition=F&TeamID=1610612752&dir=D&sort=AVG_DRIB_PER_TOUCH (https://www.nba.com/stats/players/touches?PlayerPosition=F&TeamID=1610612752&dir=D&sort=AVG_DRIB_PER_TOUCH)

But when he has the ball he's still holding onto it longer than any other big/wing on the team.   
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/touches?PlayerPosition=F&TeamID=1610612752&dir=D&sort=AVG_SEC_PER_TOUCH (https://www.nba.com/stats/players/touches?PlayerPosition=F&TeamID=1610612752&dir=D&sort=AVG_SEC_PER_TOUCH)

When it comes to points per touch he suffers because he is still asked to handle the ball too often (for my taste)
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/touches?PlayerPosition=F&TeamID=1610612752&dir=D&sort=PTS_PER_TOUCH (https://www.nba.com/stats/players/touches?PlayerPosition=F&TeamID=1610612752&dir=D&sort=PTS_PER_TOUCH)

While JR is "pounding" he invariably draws double coverage, has proven adept at finding cutters and open shooters, and has the assists to prove it. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 27, 2022, 09:49:34 PM
Rory Sparrow (1985)


The Love God.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 27, 2022, 11:40:52 PM
Quote from: Kam on October 27, 2022, 06:26:37 PM

If I have to pick some nits:

2.  I love IQ.  My wife's favorite player.  She loves him.   But man, he's changed.  He's not calling his own number as much.  Maybe his agent told him to start looking like more of a floor general if he wants to get paid, but i can definitely sense a hesitation to shoot it as often as he used to.   This is probably a good thing long-term, but part of me is like... 'what's wrong with IQ?'   i guess it doesn't look natural yet.  He's thinking... this play I won't shoot... this play I will shoot instead of just taking what the defense gives him.  Passing up open looks isn't the IQ I know.

......

4. 13 minutes for MY favorite player (OBI) isn't cutting it.  He's got a smooth stroke and the whole offense doesn't grind to a halt when he needs to score.   I absolutely love having Cam and Obi on the floor at the same time.  I feel like they're a cheat code of unlimited athletic potential when they're on the floor together.  I haven't felt like we've had wings this dangerous since Sprewell was menacing PJ Carleisimo.

Too early to tell about IQ.

But for Obi, not too early. He needed more playing time last game, he deserved more playing time. And it's no small thing that fans love to see him play

Somebody has to save Thibs from himself.
Title: A Savior
Post by: carlos123 on October 28, 2022, 12:14:37 AM
Quote from: elephant on October 27, 2022, 11:40:52 PM

Too early to tell about IQ.

But for Obi, not too early. He needed more playing time last game, he deserved more playing time. And it's no small thing that fans love to see him play

Somebody has to save Thibs from himself.

That would be nice, unless he is beyond salvation.

Oh wait, how about Chip? He seems to still have faith.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 28, 2022, 11:10:38 AM
3-1 and worrying about minutes

You're all too fuckin funny
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 28, 2022, 12:13:32 PM
Nyets are 1-4

Knicks are 3-1

And SighMoan BowlingMar thinks it amusing I'm not jumping on the Fire Thibs bandwagon.

Do tell.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 28, 2022, 04:34:25 PM
Nyets are 1-4


Simmons playing a little better...

Nice to see Nash wig out the other night
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 28, 2022, 06:14:45 PM
Refs blew 3 calls in the last 2 minutes of OT,  all to the Knicks disadvantage

https://official.nba.com/l2m/L2MReport.html?gameId=0022200058 (https://official.nba.com/l2m/L2MReport.html?gameId=0022200058)

01:56.0     Foul
Comment:   Washington (CHA) jumps from point A to point B and initiates contact with Randle (NYK), which affects his driving shot attempt.

01:55.0    Foul
Comment:   Hayward (CHA) makes contact with Robinson's (NYK) right arm as he attempts to secure the loose ball. The contact to Robinson's arm impacts his ability to control the rebound.

00:49.6   Turnover: Traveling   
Comment:   Oubre Jr. (CHA) establishes his right foot as his pivot foot and then lifts and re-plants that foot at the start of his dribble.
Title: Sr. Bolivar and Mr. Meshugana
Post by: carlos123 on October 28, 2022, 07:08:50 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 28, 2022, 12:13:32 PM
Nyets are 1-4

Knicks are 3-1

And SighMoan BowlingMar thinks it amusing I'm not jumping on the Fire Thibs bandwagon.

Do tell.

Hey Chip, you dont have to act meshuga just because someone says you have faith in your favorite coach.

PS. Fuk them Nyets and their "superstars"!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 28, 2022, 09:00:18 PM
It's Carlos Time
Title: Strike One
Post by: chipstern on October 29, 2022, 06:22:32 AM
Impressive defense by Milwaukee.

Completely took us out of our rhythm.

Cavs beckon.

Donovan fucking lighting it up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 29, 2022, 09:48:18 AM
Battled a top team on the rod.  Cant expect more, though plenty to see as negatives in the course of play.

Bears watching just how effective Jalen can be vs top competition.  But he wasnt flustered.

I like how Thibs had him sit til the 3 minute mark, then in fresh for final run.  Had a shot to make it interesting.  Hoping to be 6-5 or better after this next tough 6 game stretch, though 4 are on the road.  Do we panic at 5-6?  Some will.

3-2.  3  expected wins.  Never a worry til we lose a bad one at home.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 29, 2022, 01:25:12 PM
Yeah, we didn't play well. Our shot selection in the first half seemed particularly terrible.

BUT....

I figured the Bucks would be the dominant team in the NBA and damn if they don't look like it. Their collective defense is incredible. So scrappy. They give you nothing. Everything is a fight. You just let up for a moment, and they'll snag that ball out of your pretty hands.

Impressive!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 29, 2022, 01:34:52 PM
I was encouraged by how the Knicks hung in with the Bucks through the first and even second period (if it had been .01 seconds longer).

There was one play in the 2nd period I thought was particularly damaging to our slim chances,  where Randle got the ball in transition, the Knicks had a 4 on 1 and Randle took two dribbles and what seemed like an eternity to pass the ball to a streaking RJ Barrett who had run out of court by then and had to stop and take an awkward push shot.

Scoring would've given the Knicks the lead there.  Instead the Bucks went back and scored.  Then scored on the next two possessions as well as the Knicks reeled.  That was psychically damaging to the team and there was never a real recovery in the second half.

This was a Knick team at -nearly- full strength vs a wounded Bucks squad so let's not take too much solace in this loss.

This was a chance to steal a game we shouldn't have won.

Oh well.  Onto the CAVS. 

Looking for a statement game from RJ but worried the statement will be from DM.
Title: RJ - yikes
Post by: Kam on October 29, 2022, 02:08:19 PM
Randle not so bad.


(https://preview.redd.it/gcyi3p3fzrw91.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=6d55137b901a68fad7e7c49c2acbe085cfe549bd)
Title: Bucks
Post by: chipstern on October 29, 2022, 06:26:50 PM
Neutralized Brunson

Impressive DEFENSE..
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 29, 2022, 08:19:08 PM
good news - no Garland tomorrow

bad news - LeVert and Mitchell had 82 last game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 29, 2022, 08:40:46 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 29, 2022, 06:26:50 PM
Neutralized Brunson

Impressive DEFENSE..

We want to see progressive improvements in our execution against D like that.

Fortunately this tough stretch will provide us with some reps.
Title: DuhDuhDuh
Post by: chipstern on October 29, 2022, 09:09:55 PM
Spurs mysteriously release #1 pick Josh Primo.

Multiple accusations of him exposing himself to women. 

Damn.
Title: Hey Fac
Post by: carlos123 on October 29, 2022, 10:35:03 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 29, 2022, 08:40:46 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 29, 2022, 06:26:50 PM
Neutralized Brunson

Impressive DEFENSE..

We want to see progressive improvements in our execution against D like that.

Fortunately this tough stretch will provide us with some reps.

Very cute (and tough) Ukaranian woman!

If I were a Russian pawn, I wouldnt want to mess with you.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 29, 2022, 11:06:21 PM
One of the best parts of being a Knicks fan?

We don't have to deal with Kyrie Irving.

What a fucking miserable experience it must meet to make excuses for the guy, to rationalize his actions and inactions, to pretend that he's not what he is, and to have to root for him on the court.

A good reminder that talent is not everything.
Title: 29
Post by: carlos123 on October 29, 2022, 11:14:53 PM
29 teams are very lucky not to be the fin Nyets!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 30, 2022, 01:45:53 AM
And I don't think it's about Kyrie, per se.

It's just that sometimes the Culture of Stupid is so fucking exhausting.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 30, 2022, 03:52:22 AM
Quote from: elephant on October 29, 2022, 11:06:21 PM
One of the best parts of being a Knicks fan?

We don't have to deal with Kyrie Irving.

What a fucking miserable experience it must meet to make excuses for the guy, to rationalize his actions and inactions, to pretend that he's not what he is, and to have to root for him on the court.

A good reminder that talent is not everything.

A perfect addition to the 2023-2024 Lakers.

They deserve each other.

Jive MF. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 30, 2022, 12:36:51 PM
Can't wait for him to win another ring before we do.

Whine away, all.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 30, 2022, 02:57:38 PM
Ah, about that Culture of Stupid....
Title: Hubris Alert
Post by: chipstern on October 30, 2022, 03:51:13 PM
Quote from: elephant on October 30, 2022, 02:57:38 PM
Ah, about that Culture of Stupid....

Right On CUE...

Kyrie is a LOSER's Loser

Not as calculated in box scores or playoffs runs

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRH7QoACc7EZTsBZeA7cYwHtFq4ltn0oGLa0sNePpMkyJWY-0kVKNkuwd6XSF1gOPPKT4A&usqp=CAU)

But as a...Hateful little slug who endorses world wide conspiracies, lending credence to the hateful rants of and willfully irresponsible conspiracies of Alex Jones, then upping the ante to include the oldest one in the book, the myth of the evil, all controlling wolrd wide Jewish conspiracy.

Whining? 

Heh

Fuck U Kiid
Title: Donovan Mitchell
Post by: chipstern on October 30, 2022, 07:12:21 PM
Damn!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 30, 2022, 08:29:43 PM
(sigh)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 30, 2022, 09:24:49 PM
We just dont have a guy who can do that stuff.

How much simpler can the issue be?

Knicks battled.  I am not pessimistic.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 30, 2022, 10:04:27 PM
We have an issue closing out on pick and pop bigs. Aldama, Portis & Lopez, and now Wade and Love.

Not sure if it is more a talent or scheme thing, but we need to fix it sooner rather than later.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 30, 2022, 10:26:27 PM
The Dumbest Motherfuckers Who Ever Lived






**** anyone who wouldn't want to give up RJ and 3 unprotected ...


F.........
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 30, 2022, 10:26:56 PM
gotdamn...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 30, 2022, 10:27:20 PM
you see him?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 30, 2022, 10:27:49 PM
damn...


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 30, 2022, 10:31:14 PM
https://twitter.com/cavs/status/1586870950858981378 (https://twitter.com/cavs/status/1586870950858981378)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 30, 2022, 10:32:01 PM
silly ass glazed donut ass face m'fers....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 30, 2022, 10:33:31 PM
dumbest m'fers who ever lived...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 30, 2022, 10:33:44 PM
gotdamn...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 30, 2022, 10:40:00 PM
https://twitter.com/cavs/status/1586870950858981378 (https://twitter.com/cavs/status/1586870950858981378)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 30, 2022, 10:41:52 PM
motherfuckers who have never seen beauty motherfuckers who don't understand one goddamn thing about the world dumb ass glaze donut face ass mother fuckers
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 30, 2022, 10:54:26 PM






*****Donovan Mitchell becomes just the second player in NBA history to record 5 30-point games in his first 6 games with a team.Wilt Chamberlin did it in 1959 with the Warriors, in all 6 games.
Title: Fakers
Post by: carlos123 on October 31, 2022, 12:20:03 AM
The LA Fakers won their first game.

Therefore they are now as good as the Nyets.

So my doggie Les 🐶 does not need to hit his head against the wall. There are worse teams out there.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 31, 2022, 07:18:49 AM
Knicks box didn't look all that bad.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 31, 2022, 08:31:52 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 30, 2022, 10:04:27 PM
We have an issue closing out on pick and pop bigs. Aldama, Portis & Lopez, and now Wade and Love.

Not sure if it is more a talent or scheme thing, but we need to fix it sooner rather than later.

Are we playing simple help and recover or rotating a third player out to  the left open shooter?

If the former, are we helping too much, too deep - is the defender of the ballhandler also at fault for needing so much help - or both?

If the latter, is the slow rotation a result of lack of athleticism, poor awareness or both?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 31, 2022, 09:25:29 AM
I hit rewind 3x to diagnose the problem after the last Love three.

Turned out to be pretty obvious. Felt no need to look at others.

See the ball. See your man. Move.

Only one of the three occurred.

Can't blame that on scheme or athleticism.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 31, 2022, 01:03:45 PM
Subbing IQ in for Fournier to cover the point of attack in the starting unit, or Grimes when he gets healthy will help this some. Shortening rotation intervals to help players go harder while also retaining more pop later into games would also help. We have the depth and none of our guys are so good they need to be kept on the floor if they are not staying on top of their team responsibilities and executing them precisely with energy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 31, 2022, 01:07:39 PM
Also, if the regular bigs are not rotating well, play Sims. MF moves on the floor and always provides serious energy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 31, 2022, 02:16:46 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 31, 2022, 01:03:45 PM
Subbing IQ in for Fournier to cover the point of attack in the starting unit, or Grimes when he gets healthy will help this some. Shortening rotation intervals to help players go harder while also retaining more pop later into games would also help. We have the depth and none of our guys are so good they need to be kept on the floor if they are not staying on top of their team responsibilities and executing them precisely with energy.

The second unit was not particularly effective last night.

Obi and Cam with multiple turnovers and botched assignments.

Not so much a matter of minutes, but as Dawg pointed out, FOCUS.

Not to mention historic Love levitation and Mitchell in assassin mode. 
Title: Fournier
Post by: chipstern on October 31, 2022, 02:47:34 PM
Evan in the POST addressing issues of execution on offense, lack of patience, poor setting of screens, rushed shots.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on October 31, 2022, 08:15:06 PM
I have January 11th in the whenwilljalenfirstbecriticizedforhisdefense pool.
Title: Utah Jazz
Post by: chipstern on November 01, 2022, 05:51:21 AM
Not doing a really good job of tanking. 
Title: Musk
Post by: chipstern on November 01, 2022, 07:21:38 AM
musk: (slang, colloquial, vulgar) The scent of human genitalia when aroused or unwashed. ["I was so excited I could smell my own musk."]

(https://s3.amazonaws.com/moonup/production/uploads/1664910461262-noauth.jpeg)
Title: NYETS Fire Nash
Post by: chipstern on November 01, 2022, 03:36:23 PM
Eli's Coming?

NO

But Udoka is. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 01, 2022, 05:41:07 PM
Unfuckingbelievable.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 01, 2022, 06:30:15 PM
Quote from: elephant on November 01, 2022, 05:41:07 PM
Unfuckingbelievable.

Sean Marks has checked in to insist that NO FINAL DECISION HAS BEEN MADE.

Due dillegence. 

I suppose Kyrie has to consult Alex Jones and the spectral remains of Ashley Babble...

Meanwhile, Quentin AND Cam out for the Hawks. 

Wonder if we See Svi?  Or Feron?   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 01, 2022, 07:22:52 PM
Fournier and Quickley for Beverley and Nunn
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 01, 2022, 07:48:43 PM
VEGAS liking Knicks

2.5 point favorite tomorrow vs Hawks.
Title: NYETS
Post by: chipstern on November 02, 2022, 03:00:30 PM
Houston has the right to swap #1 picks with Brooklyn in 2023

And 2025

And 2027

They still owe the Rockets their #1 picks in 2024 and 2026

IT GETS BETTER

They gave up on Coach Kenny Atkinson--a fave of our beloved & beknighted SighMoanBowlingMar (when he is not rubbing one out for Iron Mike Miller), and anyone else who prizes player development to brown nose up to KD and Kyrie The Magnificent, and have now made Steve Nash walk the plank for the sins of Sean Marks. 

It Gets Better.

They gave up on both Caris LaVert and Jarrett Allen.  LaVert enjoyed a career breakthrough under Coach Atkinson, and Allen was a rising star.  Both are now making significant contributions to a Cleveland playoff run, and Allen is a 24 year old all-star, while LaVert is a 28 year old big wing, coming back from injuries by shooting 16-of-33 from trey in his last six games. 

In the Harden Trade, the Sixers bet the ranch on Ben Simmons [recovering from spinal surgery], Seth Curry [recovering from surgery], Andre Drummond [contributing positively to the Bulls rotation].  They have Philly's 2023 Unprotected #1 and 2027 Protected #1. 

KD is an all-time great offensive player.  Defense?  CumSiCuSa. He has his moments. But when speaking of him in the greater scheme of things, when it comes to LEADERSHIP...Zero.  When matched against the likes of Willis Reed, Bill Russell, Maurice Lucas, Magic Johnson, Isiah Thomas, Michael Jordan, Tim Duncan, Steph Curry?  ZERO. 

And Kyrie The Magnificent?  Self-Proclaimed DEEP THINKER?  Missing In ACTION over this first three seasons as a NYET, playing a total of 103 games in his first three seasons, and this year, representing the borough of Brooklyn, one of the most liberal leaning counties in America, and with a significant contingent of Hebrews, endorses the wisdom of right wing wackamole Alex Jones's lunatic conspiracy theories, and a virulently hateful, Anti-Semetic book and movie. 

The Knicks have issues, for sure. 

But they Nyets are UTTERLY FUCKED. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 02, 2022, 03:39:52 PM
Plus the 2024 and '26 Nets number ones and the '24 number two.  Good for Rockets.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 02, 2022, 04:14:45 PM
Kevin Durant was quite clearly the leader of the 2017-2019 Warriors
Title: Duh
Post by: chipstern on November 02, 2022, 05:09:31 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 02, 2022, 04:14:45 PM
Kevin Durant was quite clearly the leader of the 2017-2019 Warriors

BULLSHIT

The Proof Is In The Pudding

HE LEFT TO SIGN WITH THE NYETS

Duh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 02, 2022, 05:35:30 PM
QUITE clearly.  Sad injury.  Kawhi benefited.
Title: Re: NYETS
Post by: carlos123 on November 02, 2022, 06:10:06 PM
Quote from: chip MESHUGA on November 02, 2022, 03:00:30 PM

They gave up on Coach Kenny Atkinson--a fave of our beloved & beknighted SighMoanBowlingMar (when he is not rubbing one out for Iron Mike Miller), and anyone else who prizes player development to brown nose up to KD and Kyrie The Magnificent, and have now made Steve Nash walk the plank for the sins of Sean Marks. 

But they Nyets are UTTERLY FUCKED.

Dear Chip the meshuga, I do not follow the Nyets and never expressed one opinion on Kenny Atkinson, though for whatever little I know, I think he was a good coach. Please, do not confuse Hispanic Bolivar with Mr. Zizzley, whose "thought" about us is, or was, that we are funny and speak funny.

On the other hand, we are in total agreement about the Nyets being UTTERLY FUCKED and KD having ZERO leadership but plenty of spoiled acting.
Title: Re: NYETS
Post by: chipstern on November 02, 2022, 07:24:04 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on November 02, 2022, 06:10:06 PM
Quote from: chip MESHUGA on November 02, 2022, 03:00:30 PM

They gave up on Coach Kenny Atkinson--a fave of our beloved & beknighted SighMoanBowlingMar (when he is not rubbing one out for Iron Mike Miller), and anyone else who prizes player development to brown nose up to KD and Kyrie The Magnificent, and have now made Steve Nash walk the plank for the sins of Sean Marks. 

But they Nyets are UTTERLY FUCKED.

Dear Chip the meshuga, I do not follow the Nyets and never expressed one opinion on Kenny Atkinson, though for whatever little I know, I think he was a good coach. Please, do not confuse Hispanic Bolivar with Mr. Zizzley, whose "thought" about us is, or was, that we are funny and speak funny.

On the other hand, we are in total agreement about the Nyets being UTTERLY FUCKED and KD having ZERO leadership but plenty of spoiled acting.

Duly

✅️

Noted
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 02, 2022, 09:19:06 PM
I dont know - should Hawks fans have been insulted - said Spurs were trying to rob them when asking for FOUR number one picks for D Murray>?

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 02, 2022, 09:28:03 PM
The run is now 24-6 against.  Second unit-led.

Yeah, Thibs - get these guys their minutes.  Cant let anyone go over 35.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 02, 2022, 09:38:37 PM
Where in the world are the starters?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 02, 2022, 09:40:00 PM
Down 18 now with 5 left - and here comes Randle

So absurd.

(have to watch this postgame presser)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 02, 2022, 09:59:30 PM
Time to accelerate the Fournier faze out. He might be useful in a different role off the bench. We need a real point of attack defender in the starting lineup and it cannot come too soon.
Title: Third Quarter
Post by: chipstern on November 02, 2022, 10:01:40 PM
Classic third quarter Knicks meltdown.

Turnover after turnover,  and as far as treys.

What did someone once say about Terry Bradshaw.   

So lame, couldn't spell cat if you spotted him a T and a C. 

Grotesque in the classic manner of 2021-2022.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 02, 2022, 10:02:38 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 02, 2022, 09:59:30 PM
Time to accelerate the Fournier faze out. He might be useful in a different role off the bench. We need a real point of attack defender in the starting lineup and it cannot come too soon.

Turnovers too.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 02, 2022, 10:05:31 PM
Cleveland perimeter players tonight

Garland - 37 minutes
Mitchell - 39 minutes
LaVert - 41 minutes

Team looking to WIN.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 02, 2022, 10:09:31 PM
Sczerbiak - "Cant ask the bench to go against starters..."

I guess.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 02, 2022, 10:19:01 PM

knicks writers are shit

Nobody thought to ask why Brunson sat 9 minutes while Hawks went off 24-6?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 02, 2022, 10:38:24 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 02, 2022, 09:59:30 PM
Time to accelerate the Fournier faze out. He might be useful in a different role off the bench. We need a real point of attack defender in the starting lineup and it cannot come too soon.

I think there is little dispute on this.

Before the injury, I was hoping that Grimes would begin the season as our starter.

At least he's started to play again, so we'll see how he's looking.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 02, 2022, 10:41:41 PM
I know Thibs isn't playing the game, and it's too early for me to start my "What do you mean you're keeping Randle AND Thibs" argument, but his incapacity to MAKE ADJUSTMENTS continues to be his achilles heel.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 02, 2022, 10:47:25 PM
You just paid a king's fucking ransom for Brunson - this is NOT acceptable!!!!!  Fucking PERIOD.  Talk all you want about what happened when they went zone, our turnovers, etc - yoiu have to have your general on the court.

It is also quite obvious to me that BREEN has been instructed to publicize positives for Barrett.  "Whoa - that is THREE assisists in the first quarter for RJ!"
Title: glazed donut face ass m'fers....
Post by: lesterluv on November 03, 2022, 01:26:32 PM
https://twitter.com/CavsNationCP/status/1587992195734306816 (https://twitter.com/CavsNationCP/status/1587992195734306816)
Title: Pissed At An Omnist
Post by: chipstern on November 03, 2022, 02:53:38 PM
Kyrie has identified himself as an OMNIST, ergo, it is impossible for him to be anti-semetic. 

The Oxford dictionary defines an OMNIST as:

A person who believes in all faiths or creeds

A person who believes in a single transcendent purpose or cause uniting all things or people or the members of a particular group of people.

The sheer hubris of this motherfucker knows no bounds. 

HUBRIS: Arrogance, Excessive Pride

Identifies as an Omnist, yet for SOME INEXPLICABLE REASON, chooses to SHARE on his social media platform links to a book and movie so awash in hate and ignorance and long discredited and familar Anti-Semetic tropes [Trope: a common or overused theme or device] about THE JEWS as deployed not only by the Russian Czars and Cossacks, and the Nazis, but by virulent American bigots such as Henry Ford, Father Coughlin and Charles Lindbergh. 

And when called on it by an ESPN Reporter, denies any cause and effect regarding somehing he CHOSE TO SHARE ON WITH HIS FOLLOWERS AND ON HIS PLATFORMS, retreats behind pseudo-intellectual sophistry [Sophistry: Fallacious arguments, especially with the intention of deceiving] and goes on to accuse said reporter of "dehuminaizing me."

Kyrie has since made a half hearted gesture towards fighting hate with a cash contribution, BUT HAS REFUSED TO OWN HIS OWN CURIOUS CHOICES AND ACTUALLY APOLOGIZE. 

Failing to cop to the fact that ACTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES. 

Meanwhile, his brother in brouhaha, posts his support on Twitter, while NBA Commentators such as Reggie Miller wonder why all you hear is crickets from NBA players, while Shaquille O'Neal and Charles Barkley express their own outrage and calls for serious, meaningful consequences. 

MEANWHILE, someone as clearly sympathetic as Amare Stoudamire, who coached Kyrie at Brooklyn, and who himself converted to Judaism, spoke of Kyrie's intellectual and spiritual curiosity and journey, and the core of something worth salvaging, while insisting that he needs to apologize. 

MEANWHILE, Kyrie is now considered RADIOACTIVE by NBA Insiders.  Who in their right mind would trade for or sign this malodorous [Malodorous: smelling very unpleasant] malcontent [Malcontent: a person who is dissatisfied and rebellious]?

His ego is such that he has already bailed on a partnership with arguably the greatest player of the modern era, in LeBron James, and one of the winningest franchises, the Boston Celtics, with their core of gifted young players. 

And while looking ahead to 2023-2024, when he will be a free agent, and the Los Angeles Lakers have divested themselves of Russell Westbrook's massive contract, would seem a perfect fit, save that not only is LOS ANGELES a very cosmopolitan, multi-racial/mult-ethnic city, but is often cited as one of the linchpins of the International Jewish Conspiracy given the outsized role people of an Eastern European Jewish heritage played in the very origins of the movie business, Hollywood itself, and the modern entertainment industry. 

NOT A GOOD LOOK.

And much as the Lakers would be hard pressed to look the other way, given what a great fit Irving's immense talents as a scorer, shooter and facilitator would theoretically be for their current core of aging and gimpy superstars, like everyone else on Planet Earth who respects his talent [and acknowledges his acts of charity], weighing the plusses and minuses, and given his predeliction for the precipice and self-immolation, well...YOU DO THE MATH.   
Title: "I'm a light. I'm a beacon of light "
Post by: chipstern on November 03, 2022, 09:31:16 PM
I do believe Kyrie Irving has played his last game as a Brooklyn Net.

Dead at the age of 30 of a self inflicted air strike, pausing only once to reload.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 03, 2022, 11:39:41 PM
Once December rolls around, I would try to get Russ from the Lakers for our least inspired defenders.

Russ, Juan Toscano-Anderson and Wenyen Gabriel for Jules. Archi and Evan.

Wenyen can back up Obi and Thibs can do whatever he wants with Russ.

Mitch Isiah Hericho
Obi Gabriel JTA
RJ Cam Svi
Grimes IQ Russ
Brunson Rose McBride
Title: Thibs On Ice
Post by: chipstern on November 04, 2022, 02:05:04 PM
Make that thin ice. 

Calls for Thibs to be fired proliferating.

Don't be late to the party, fellow Elbans.  Get the Greek Chorus going.

ME?

If a move is to be made, doing it now would seem to me to be a weak panic-desperation gesture, sowing chaos, not unlike the Nyets cashiering Nash. 

If we don't simply elevate Johnny Bryant, and want to have a choice of good condidates, Thibs merits a full season with Brunson. 

At that point, evaluate his rotations, in game decisions, offensive sets.  If the ends results are not pleasing, such as, say, failure to make the PlayIn, or a really bad showing thereof, well...the wind may not cry Mariah, but fireFireFIRE...

PS: Dearest Facil: No thank you. 

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/d53eb55491c167d7f5a93e24fa2fe727/14ccf0ef3036fffb-66/s540x810/e53b245ecb1264fff4793bcff70ca61829676f95.gif)
Title: Kyrie: BEYOND All FUCKING Belief
Post by: chipstern on November 04, 2022, 04:05:08 PM
The Nyets Owner--THE FUCKING OWNER--gave Kyrie Irving every opportunity to make amends, distance himself from his putative endorsement of a virunlently amti-Semitic book & movie,  right the ship, apologize, and move on. 

EVERY OPPORUNITY 

And according to Ramona Shelburne& Adrian Wojnarowski, for the better part of a week, Kyrie DIDN'T RETURN ANY OF JOE TSAI's TEXT MESSAGES. 

According to The Prophet Kiid [No, make that Father Coughlin Kiid], we're just a bunch of whiners, and there's a ring in Kyrie's future.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/34948105/inside-high-wire-decision-suspend-brooklyn-nets-star-kyrie-irving
 (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/34948105/inside-high-wire-decision-suspend-brooklyn-nets-star-kyrie-irving)
At this point in time it is questionable if Kyrie will ever play for the Nyets again, let alone receive a max offer this summer as a UFA.

UFA?

Unrestricted Free Agent?

UNREPENTANT FUCKING ASSHOLE

Helping to mainstream anti-Semitism. 

For most, the news conference had portrayed a familiar Irving.  Defiant, undeterred and crusading with misinformation.

"I'm only going to get stronger because I'm not alone," Irving said. "I have a whole army around me."
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 04, 2022, 06:31:56 PM
Kyrie continues to own the media, while Nets continue to wreck a franchise.

Tsai - just sell.  You will  make  a fortune on initial innvestment - and you will never win if you stay.
Title: OWN The Media
Post by: chipstern on November 04, 2022, 07:31:23 PM
You are a unapologetic,  Marjorie Taylor Greene, owning the Libs  reflexively Fox talking points moron.

You WOULD stand up for an anti-Semitic,  Alex Jones spouting flat Earther, Herr Coughlin.

Why are we not surprised?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 04, 2022, 09:33:30 PM
JR
OBI
CAM
RJ
JB

Who'd have thunk it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 04, 2022, 09:44:03 PM
I do like Cam and RJ as wings around Brunson.

No Embid, no Harden still problems. In the end we overcame.

Grimes will hit his stride.

We are finally finding a proper role for Fournier.

We are a half game behind the Celts and a game and a half behind the Raps playing scratch basketball.

The best is yet to come.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 04, 2022, 09:50:35 PM
We can weather a decent absence from Mitch. Hope he is ok.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 04, 2022, 10:06:46 PM
Good  win

Thibs goes small at the end.  Kudos to the coach who "cannot/will not adjust"

PS - Doc still sucks
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 05, 2022, 06:18:23 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 04, 2022, 09:50:35 PM
We can weather a decent absence from Mitch. Hope he is ok.

Out 7 to 10 days
Title: Re: Pissed At An Omnist
Post by: luee on November 05, 2022, 07:28:18 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 03, 2022, 02:53:38 PM
Kyrie has identified himself as an OMNIST, ergo, it is impossible for him to be anti-semetic. 

The Oxford dictionary defines an OMNIST as:

A person who believes in all faiths or creeds

A person who believes in a single transcendent purpose or cause uniting all things or people or the members of a particular group of people.

The sheer hubris of this motherfucker knows no bounds. 

HUBRIS: Arrogance, Excessive Pride

Identifies as an Omnist, yet for SOME INEXPLICABLE REASON, chooses to SHARE on his social media platform links to a book and movie so awash in hate and ignorance and long discredited and familar Anti-Semetic tropes [Trope: a common or overused theme or device] about THE JEWS as deployed not only by the Russian Czars and Cossacks, and the Nazis, but by virulent American bigots such as Henry Ford, Father Coughlin and Charles Lindbergh. 

And when called on it by an ESPN Reporter, denies any cause and effect regarding somehing he CHOSE TO SHARE ON WITH HIS FOLLOWERS AND ON HIS PLATFORMS, retreats behind pseudo-intellectual sophistry [Sophistry: Fallacious arguments, especially with the intention of deceiving] and goes on to accuse said reporter of "dehuminaizing me."

Kyrie has since made a half hearted gesture towards fighting hate with a cash contribution, BUT HAS REFUSED TO OWN HIS OWN CURIOUS CHOICES AND ACTUALLY APOLOGIZE. 

Failing to cop to the fact that ACTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES. 

Meanwhile, his brother in brouhaha, posts his support on Twitter, while NBA Commentators such as Reggie Miller wonder why all you hear is crickets from NBA players, while Shaquille O'Neal and Charles Barkley express their own outrage and calls for serious, meaningful consequences. 

MEANWHILE, someone as clearly sympathetic as Amare Stoudamire, who coached Kyrie at Brooklyn, and who himself converted to Judaism, spoke of Kyrie's intellectual and spiritual curiosity and journey, and the core of something worth salvaging, while insisting that he needs to apologize. 

MEANWHILE, Kyrie is now considered RADIOACTIVE by NBA Insiders.  Who in their right mind would trade for or sign this malodorous [Malodorous: smelling very unpleasant] malcontent [Malcontent: a person who is dissatisfied and rebellious]?

His ego is such that he has already bailed on a partnership with arguably the greatest player of the modern era, in LeBron James, and one of the winningest franchises, the Boston Celtics, with their core of gifted young players. 

And while looking ahead to 2023-2024, when he will be a free agent, and the Los Angeles Lakers have divested themselves of Russell Westbrook's massive contract, would seem a perfect fit, save that not only is LOS ANGELES a very cosmopolitan, multi-racial/mult-ethnic city, but is often cited as one of the linchpins of the International Jewish Conspiracy given the outsized role people of an Eastern European Jewish heritage played in the very origins of the movie business, Hollywood itself, and the modern entertainment industry. 

NOT A GOOD LOOK.

And much as the Lakers would be hard pressed to look the other way, given what a great fit Irving's immense talents as a scorer, shooter and facilitator would theoretically be for their current core of aging and gimpy superstars, like everyone else on Planet Earth who respects his talent [and acknowledges his acts of charity], weighing the plusses and minuses, and given his predeliction for the precipice and self-immolation, well...YOU DO THE MATH.

Most would identify him as a  self-loather. Lets make believe I am something else. Look I can hate on the Jews. A 40 point win without his cancerous help.
Title: Re: Jacques Vaughan
Post by: chipstern on November 07, 2022, 03:24:17 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 07, 2022, 03:22:20 PM
Nyets appear to have a good coach. SEAN.


Duh
Title: Quote?
Post by: carlos123 on November 07, 2022, 04:50:44 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 07, 2022, 03:24:17 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 07, 2022, 03:22:20 PM
Nyets appear to have a good coach. SEAN.


Duh

How do you quote a post that is not here?

Did you post it, quote it and then deleted it? That's a lotta work just to make it disappear.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 07, 2022, 06:43:13 PM
Big game tonight, for appearance sake

Vegas still likes us, just a 2.5 point underdog.
Title: Who?
Post by: carlos123 on November 07, 2022, 11:34:16 PM
Who wanted to discard my King Julius, huh? Fac? My doggie? Come forward and repent from your evil ways!

PS. Brunson is the real deal.
Title: Re: Who?
Post by: chipstern on November 08, 2022, 12:47:00 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on November 07, 2022, 11:34:16 PM
Who wanted to discard my King Julius, huh? Fac? My doggie? Come forward and repent from your evil ways!

PS. Brunson is the real deal.

God forbid JR reprises his three point stroke of 2020-21

Brunson sure hits the deck a lot.  Little pit bull
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 08, 2022, 08:43:31 AM
Beautiful run for Mr Julius Randle - vs Celts and last night.

Nice overall effort.  Funny how good we look when the shots fall.

Jalen even better than advertised.  Get him his 36-38, Thibsy.

Top 8 team, maxing out at #5.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 08, 2022, 12:27:14 PM
I am pleased that Thibs seems to have taken that stick out of his ass, and is experimenting a little more.

For instance, I noticed that Obi and Julius were on the floor together for awhile and the world did not explode.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 08, 2022, 03:40:25 PM
Happened in the Philly game - down the stretch.  Worked - so makes sense now that minutes played for Randle + Toppin equal a number greater than 48 in most games moving forward.

I must say though - biggest take away for me last night was the ability of the Knicks defense to contain the guards play of Russell and Edwards.  Again - this a mirror of the Philly game where Maxey and Miton were something like 14-48.  SOME teams will still give us fits in SOME games on the perimeter, but please SEE the good when it comes.

We have thus far played very very good teams.  7/10 are playoff clubs.  Have won 2 of the last three.  PROGRESS.
Title: Bass Ackwards
Post by: chipstern on November 08, 2022, 08:43:39 PM
Quote from: elephant on November 08, 2022, 12:27:14 PM
I am pleased that Thibs seems to have taken that stick out of his ass, and is experimenting a little more.

For instance, I noticed that Obi and Julius were on the floor together for awhile and the world did not explode.

With all due respect, regarding the proximity to a stick in Thibs's anus, I do believe you have that BassAckwards, and that Thibs is VERY MUCH a MAN OF HIS WORD. 

Thibs' moves are consistent with his philosophy and what he has said all along.

Thibs has insisted it is all about THE WORK.

Thibs has insisted that minutes are Earned--Not Granted. 

Thibs has spoken about the nature of our DEPTH and for everyone to stay ready, as injuries are a part of reality, and your call may come way sooner way than you think. 

Thibs has clearly bought into management's commitment to youth and player development, with IQ, Obi and RJ all making significant strides, going into their third and fourth seasons. 

Of COURSE, it doesn't hurt to have AnActualFactualPointGuard with an old school skill set and genuine leadership qualities.

Every time Jalen triple clutches, spins and spins, keep his dribble, changes directions and either gets to the rack or pulls up for a short fall back jumper, it makes my skin tingle. 

With Brunson at the rudder, Thibs' offense doesn't make us shudder...well, not quite as much. 

Grimes, Fournier, Robinson? 

Grimes persistent struggles with his "foot soreness" and Fournier's struggles with his defense his shooting  and TURNOVERS, opened the door for Cam Reddish. 

Cam is still finding his sea legs on offense; seeing him flush a couple of early threes last night, warmed the cockles of my heart; it is breathtaking to see him create and get to the rack like an Indian Rubber Man, though he has been giddy and a little out of control, but you can see the potential when he conclusively starts to dial things in. 

HOWEVER, at an authentic 6'8" with a seven foot wing span, he came to training camp in great shape, ready to compete and acclimated to Thibs' System & Expectations from a summer's work. 

Cam's DEFENSIVE Focus & Intensity has clearly won over Thibs, much as Grimes did. 

Obviously, Thibs has great affection for Fournier, but Evan has fallen short in some areas, and when Thibs said nothing is given and it's about the work, WELL? 

There were times last night when Fournier looked like a nice fit with the second unit, and that steal, breakaway, and pass to Jericho on the run, moved Mike Breen if not to tears, to call him out for his character and generosity as a team mate. 

However, it seem as though in every game, Evan has coughed up some horrific turnovers, which plays into him taking a back seat to Reddish, and soon to be engaged in a dog fight with Grimes, if, presumably, his foot soreness doesn't turn into plantar plantar fasciitis, knick on wood. 

In any event, I am so very moved and gratified by Cam Reddish coming on and winning over Thibs.   

As for the Julius/Obi connection, Thibs is on the record as having taken a look at it, in noting Obi's improvement on a number of levels, most tellingly on his D & THREE. 

We have all seen the improvement of Mitchell, and the impact he has on the game, and of course, the skill set of Hartenstein, and how he competes. 

Mitchell goes down?

Hartenstein and Sims are both prone to fouls, and voila, here comes the small ball front court, which makes sense given the surge in small ball lineups league wise...the Celtics were without Williams AND Horford AND Kornet, and they simply lit us up with a small ball attack. 

MEANWHILE...

Dawg's fave RJ has been coming on, still dialing in his his shot, and no, he ain't Donovan Mitchell, BUT GET THE FUCK OVER IT.  He is averaging just under 20 points a game; he defends, he boards, he facilitates; he's been getting to the FT line and converting at an .814% clip, and posting close to 6 rebounds and 3 assists per game. 

And Julius?

I must confess, that every time Julius sets up from three, I shudder, which is what made last night such a mindfuck.  If both J.R. AND Obi are genuine, consistent threats from three, than we may anticipate Thibs calling their Dual-Number.

Meanwhile J.R. and Obi complement and push each other, much as Hartenstein pushes Mitchell, much as Cam pushes Grimes and Fournier, much as IQ pushes Rose. 

And Brunson stirs the drink. 

We have a long fucking way to go, and I'm still waiting to see us apply the deep heat massage to some top tier teams, but that day will come. 

The Wolves are most def not the Celtics, but our three point defense was better, even though Thibs allowed as how some of that was Minny missing out on some good shot opportunities. 

Anyway, BRING ON THE Fukcing NYETS. 
Title: PS
Post by: chipstern on November 08, 2022, 08:51:19 PM
Brother Facil

Please, Bro.

Do not give in to your raging transactional tumescence, and dial up any GodForseSaken Fournier trade giveaways.  At least until January & February. 

Peace. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 08, 2022, 09:10:56 PM
And to think I ever doubted your positive pussitude.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 08, 2022, 09:13:32 PM
I do believe one can be all in for the Knicks without the absurd and revisionist exaltation of Thibs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 08, 2022, 09:14:25 PM
https://kslsports.com/495122/jimmer-fredette-hits-game-winner-leads-usa-to-fiba-3x3-americup-title/?fbclid=IwAR0sHHkfpUOf_PhwGpR4Q6BgSEYpRmKPfYPD-bmmDQtb6aADQkQfaug5Puc


Money.
Title: Revisionist Pussitude
Post by: chipstern on November 08, 2022, 09:37:31 PM
Quote from: elephant on November 08, 2022, 09:13:32 PM
I do believe one can be all in for the Knicks without the absurd and revisionist exaltation of Thibs.

I have issues with Thibs, but revisionist?

This is who he IS. 

Helps to have an ActualFACTUAL PG. 

And who replaces Thibs?

Mike Miller?

Ime Udoka?

Kenny Atkinson?

Marc Jackson? 

Kyrie Irving? 

And again...

I am ALL FOR REASSESSING Thibs, come the Spring. 

Will we be a PlayIn OR PLayOff team? 

How far do we advance, if at all? 

I know that YOU ARE NOT CALLING FOR A RITUAL EXECUTION, but many pissant pundits [BlogSlaggers] are calling for Thibs to be fired, let alone to trade Julius. 

Firing Thibs NOW? 

Would be MORONIC.  Hardly an attractive move if WE are ostensibly looking to attract a First Rate Successor. 

Anyway, nothing has changed with Thibs?

How About His FUCKING BEARD? 

I ask you. 
Title: Re: Revisionist Pussitude
Post by: elephant on November 08, 2022, 11:31:35 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 08, 2022, 09:37:31 PM
Quote from: elephant on November 08, 2022, 09:13:32 PM
I do believe one can be all in for the Knicks without the absurd and revisionist exaltation of Thibs.


I know that YOU ARE NOT CALLING FOR A RITUAL EXECUTION, but many pissant pundits [BlogSlaggers] are calling for Thibs to be fired, let alone to trade Julius. 

Firing Thibs NOW? 

Would be MORONIC.  Hardly an attractive move if WE are ostensibly looking to attract a First Rate Successor. 

Anyway, nothing has changed with Thibs?

How About His FUCKING BEARD? 

I ask you.

Quite right. I'm not calling for his head. I thought that it wasn't rare to be out-coached last year, and am just looking for signs of flexibility and adaptability.

And I think I'm seeing them.

Moreover, yes......

The BEARD.

Title: Off with that bearded head?
Post by: carlos123 on November 08, 2022, 11:54:06 PM
In view of Thibs newfound flexibility, I will temporarily stop calling for his head at least until


December?

Ok, Chip, maybe, MAYBE, until spring.

Once the grace period is over, whenever that may be, my candidates, in no particular order, remain:


Miller

Fac

Chip

PS. Good for Hochul/Delgado!
Title: Re: Off with that bearded head?
Post by: chipstern on November 09, 2022, 12:04:30 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on November 08, 2022, 11:54:06 PM
In view of Thibs newfound flexibility, I will temporarily stop calling for his head at least until


December?

Ok, Chip, maybe, MAYBE, until spring.

Once the grace period is over, whenever that may be, my candidates, in no particular order, remain:


Miller

Fac

Chip

PS. Good for Hochul/Delgado!

NY Post Cheerleaders

"Seldin SURGING!"

[Cough...HEH]

Title: Re: Revisionist Pussitude
Post by: chipstern on November 09, 2022, 12:06:15 AM
Quote from: elephant on November 08, 2022, 11:31:35 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 08, 2022, 09:37:31 PM
Quote from: elephant on November 08, 2022, 09:13:32 PM
I do believe one can be all in for the Knicks without the absurd and revisionist exaltation of Thibs.


I know that YOU ARE NOT CALLING FOR A RITUAL EXECUTION, but many pissant pundits [BlogSlaggers] are calling for Thibs to be fired, let alone to trade Julius. 

Firing Thibs NOW? 

Would be MORONIC.  Hardly an attractive move if WE are ostensibly looking to attract a First Rate Successor. 

Anyway, nothing has changed with Thibs?

How About His FUCKING BEARD? 

I ask you.

Quite right. I'm not calling for his head. I thought that it wasn't rare to be out-coached last year, and am just looking for signs of flexibility and adaptability.

And I think I'm seeing them.

Moreover, yes......

The BEARD.

Let's see if we're crying in our beer after tomorrow night in Brooklyn

Jacques Vaughan going a good job. 
Title: Another candidate
Post by: carlos123 on November 09, 2022, 01:21:55 AM
JOHN FETTERMAN!!!

Doubly happy that Dr. Trumper Quack Oz was banished.

GO KNICKS!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 09, 2022, 09:49:44 AM
Boebert trailing by small margin in Colorado as are the gubernatorial and senate election deniers in Arizona.
Title: Re: Revisionist Pussitude
Post by: elephant on November 09, 2022, 09:48:03 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 09, 2022, 12:06:15 AM
Let's see if we're crying in our beer after tomorrow night in Brooklyn

Jacques Vaughan going a good job.

Not crying exactly.

But definitely drinking.
Title: Help
Post by: carlos123 on November 09, 2022, 10:52:37 PM
I can no longer see or post to the forum on my computer, no problem on the cell phone.
The message I get on chrome is:
This site cannot provide a secure connection (well, I knew that, but did not use to give me trouble).
forums.escapefromelba.com uses an unsupported protocol.
ERR_SSL_VERSION_OR_CIPHER_MISMATCH

I tried two more browsers with the same result.
I also went through settings to allow the forum as a no secure connection site.

Still the same result.

Can anyone help? I really enjoy the forum on the computes. Thanks
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 09, 2022, 11:38:06 PM
Sorry, Los. I Have not used a computer for Elba in over a decade. I hope you sort it out.

At any rate, blame Putin.

Tonight made us look like a team that needs to sell and tank this season.
Title: Putin and Xi
Post by: carlos123 on November 10, 2022, 12:43:22 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 09, 2022, 11:38:06 PM
Sorry, Los. I Have not used a computer for Elba in over a decade. I hope you sort it out.

At any rate, blame Putin.

Tonight made us look like a team that needs to sell and tank this season.

This time I am blaming Xi.

Putin is too busy losing his war in Ukraine.

Also busy plotting how to help Trumptin in 2024 and finally taking over our Country, via proxy of course.
Title: Re: Help
Post by: chipstern on November 10, 2022, 02:03:21 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on November 09, 2022, 10:52:37 PM
I can no longer see or post to the forum on my computer, no problem on the cell phone.
The message I get on chrome is:
This site cannot provide a secure connection (well, I knew that, but did not use to give me trouble).
forums.escapefromelba.com uses an unsupported protocol.
ERR_SSL_VERSION_OR_CIPHER_MISMATCH

I tried two more browsers with the same result.
I also went through settings to allow the forum as a no secure connection site.

Still the same result.

Can anyone help? I really enjoy the forum on the computes. Thanks

I experience that quirk on my android, not on my home computer.

Just accessed this site from my android without the error message.

Quite unlike the Knicks in Brooklyn tonight..

Yikes.
Title: Re: Help
Post by: elephant on November 10, 2022, 08:03:21 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on November 09, 2022, 10:52:37 PM
I can no longer see or post to the forum on my computer, no problem on the cell phone.
The message I get on chrome is:
This site cannot provide a secure connection (well, I knew that, but did not use to give me trouble).
forums.escapefromelba.com uses an unsupported protocol.
ERR_SSL_VERSION_OR_CIPHER_MISMATCH

I tried two more browsers with the same result.
I also went through settings to allow the forum as a no secure connection site.

Still the same result.

Can anyone help? I really enjoy the forum on the computes. Thanks

Same thing happened to me on Chrome a couple of months ago.

Cound not figure out a work-around.

But accessing it fine via Safari.
Title: Re: Help
Post by: Oiled on November 10, 2022, 11:37:22 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on November 09, 2022, 10:52:37 PM
I can no longer see or post to the forum on my computer, no problem on the cell phone.


Can anyone help? I really enjoy the forum on the computes. Thanks

Ditch Chrome, load the free DuckDuckGo browser.  Solved it for me.  (It's a Chrome problem on older builds, with recognizing site certificates)
Title: Re: Putin and Xi
Post by: facilitatorn on November 10, 2022, 02:34:47 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on November 10, 2022, 12:43:22 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 09, 2022, 11:38:06 PM
Sorry, Los. I Have not used a computer for Elba in over a decade. I hope you sort it out.

At any rate, blame Putin.

Tonight made us look like a team that needs to sell and tank this season.

This time I am blaming Xi.

Putin is too busy losing his war in Ukraine.

Also busy plotting how to help Trumptin in 2024 and finally taking over our Country, via proxy of course.

The Trumpkin plots among others are what drives the isp, os and browser biz to get uptight about protocols, another thing we can thank the fascists home and abroad for like DeWine, Abbott, DeSantis, and McConnell, not to mention Thomas, Alito, Goursich, and Bart Kavanaugh.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 10, 2022, 02:36:58 PM
Here is to the hard tanking, selling at the deadline 2022-2023 NY Knicks!
Title: Re: Help
Post by: carlos123 on November 10, 2022, 04:38:01 PM
Quote from: elephant on November 10, 2022, 08:03:21 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on November 09, 2022, 10:52:37 PM
I can no longer see or post to the forum on my computer, no problem on the cell phone.
The message I get on chrome is:
This site cannot provide a secure connection (well, I knew that, but did not use to give me trouble).
forums.escapefromelba.com uses an unsupported protocol.
ERR_SSL_VERSION_OR_CIPHER_MISMATCH

I tried two more browsers with the same result.
I also went through settings to allow the forum as a no secure connection site.

Still the same result.

Can anyone help? I really enjoy the forum on the computes. Thanks

Same thing happened to me on Chrome a couple of months ago.

Cound not figure out a work-around.

But accessing it fine via Safari.

Thanks elephant, and, yes, it works on Safari, that is how I can access the forum on my iPhone.
Title: Re: Help
Post by: carlos123 on November 10, 2022, 04:43:38 PM
Quote from: Oilcan on November 10, 2022, 11:37:22 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on November 09, 2022, 10:52:37 PM
I can no longer see or post to the forum on my computer, no problem on the cell phone.


Can anyone help? I really enjoy the forum on the computes. Thanks

Ditch Chrome, load the free DuckDuckGo browser.  Solved it for me.  (It's a Chrome problem on older builds, with recognizing site certificates)

Thanks Oilcan, I will install DuckDuckGo.

In addition to Chrome, it also does not work with Edge or CCleaner.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 10, 2022, 05:13:53 PM
Good news for chipstern

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/boebert-takes-lead-in-colorado-house-race/ar-AA13Y41Q?ocid=wispr&pc=u477&cvid=573aa399943840ce93da49267f0d0fb9
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 10, 2022, 05:31:10 PM
I finally have reached that moment in my life:

How does one add that little message or quote at the bottom of a post?
Title: Profile
Post by: carlos123 on November 10, 2022, 06:17:03 PM
Quote from: elephant on November 10, 2022, 05:31:10 PM
I finally have reached that moment in my life:

How does one add that little message or quote at the bottom of a post?

On the profile tab.

Write your message(s) on Signature.
Title: Chamacos Phantasies
Post by: carlos123 on November 10, 2022, 06:22:27 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on November 10, 2022, 05:13:53 PM
Good news for chipstern

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/boebert-takes-lead-in-colorado-house-race/ar-AA13Y41Q?ocid=wispr&pc=u477&cvid=573aa399943840ce93da49267f0d0fb9

Quick, Chamaco, which of these people you fancy the most?

- Lauren.

- Marjorie.

- Donald.
Title: Re: Chamacos Phantasies
Post by: carlos123 on November 11, 2022, 12:56:01 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on November 10, 2022, 06:22:27 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on November 10, 2022, 05:13:53 PM
Good news for chipstern

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/boebert-takes-lead-in-colorado-house-race/ar-AA13Y41Q?ocid=wispr&pc=u477&cvid=573aa399943840ce93da49267f0d0fb9

Quick, Chamaco, which of these people you fancy the most?

- Lauren.

- Marjorie.

- Donald.

Chamaco is not telling. So everyone of you can say what she or he thinks.

My opinion is that Chamaco would go for Marjorie. She looks like the kind of dominatrix he would crave.

PS. Thanks for your suggestion, Oilcan. It works.
Title: Interesting
Post by: chipstern on November 11, 2022, 07:33:38 AM
My android has stopped getting the secure connection message, and has successfully loaded a number of times without incident.

However, now no access through my computer browser, Google Chrome.

Curious.
Title: More Interesting
Post by: chipstern on November 11, 2022, 07:39:03 AM
Quote from: chipstern on November 11, 2022, 07:33:38 AM
My android has stopped getting the secure connection message, and has successfully loaded a number of times without incident.

However, now no access through my computer browser, Google Chrome.

Curious.

AND YET...

And yet NOW, the computer is behaving how the Android was previously operating, wherein, after multiple clicks, the error message does not come up, and ELBA loads normally. 

Now, let's see if it loads this post. 
Title: Curiouser
Post by: chipstern on November 11, 2022, 07:40:43 AM
Quote from: chipstern on November 11, 2022, 07:39:03 AM
Quote from: chipstern on November 11, 2022, 07:33:38 AM
My android has stopped getting the secure connection message, and has successfully loaded a number of times without incident.

However, now no access through my computer browser, Google Chrome.

Curious.

AND YET...

And yet NOW, the computer is behaving how the Android was previously operating, wherein, after multiple clicks, the error message does not come up, and ELBA loads normally. 

Now, let's see if it loads this post.

Yup

(https://i.gifer.com/8uSq.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 11, 2022, 08:12:43 AM
And now, not loading on the computer.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 11, 2022, 08:23:06 AM
So if we lose against Detroit, there will be some real hand-wringing.

And if we win, we can proudly say:

Every one of our victories came against a team with a losing record.
Title: Query
Post by: chipstern on November 11, 2022, 10:09:03 AM
Quote from: elephant on November 11, 2022, 08:23:06 AM
So if we lose against Detroit, there will be some real hand-wringing.

And if we win, we can proudly say:

Every one of our victories came against a team with a losing record.

Does Thibs have an insecure connection? 
Title: Ny Post Toasts Trump
Post by: chipstern on November 11, 2022, 10:10:35 AM
https://nypost.com/2022/11/11/trump-voters-are-done-with-ex-president-he-needs-to-disappear/ (https://nypost.com/2022/11/11/trump-voters-are-done-with-ex-president-he-needs-to-disappear/)

(https://rositadeal.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/Major-Announcement-Trumpty-Dumpty-On-Cover-New-York-Post-Decorations-Poster-Canvas_64163420-1.jpg)
Title: insecure connection unsupported protocol whatever
Post by: carlos123 on November 11, 2022, 01:34:47 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 11, 2022, 08:12:43 AM
And now, not loading on the computer.

I am having the same back and forth on the computer, even after installing DuckDuckGo. Sometimes it loads and other times it does not.
Never a problem on the iPhone, too bad I cannot install Safari on my pc.

PS. Chamaco devastated over Trumpty Dumpty. But he still has Marjorie the Dominatrix.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 11, 2022, 02:48:59 PM
Kid is a Rick Scott republican. Evil is as evil does.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 11, 2022, 04:44:44 PM
Actually more of a Boebert kind of guy.

Admires anyone with an AR15 flashing a dangling dong. 
Title: Chamacos faves
Post by: carlos123 on November 11, 2022, 06:19:40 PM
I am sure The Dominatrix also has pics with her AR15(s).
Title: Re: Chamacos Phantasies
Post by: Oiled on November 11, 2022, 06:53:23 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on November 11, 2022, 12:56:01 AM


My opinion is that Chamaco would go for Marjorie. She looks like the kind of dominatrix he would crave.

PS. Thanks for your suggestion, Oilcan. It works.

You are most welcome.  El Nino Carretero would never cheat on Trump.  Don't be fooled by his half hearted attempts to disown TFG.  Like lobsters and geese, Carretero bonds for life.  I've been observing his political mating habits for many years in the National threads.
Title: Re: Chamacos Phantasies
Post by: carlos123 on November 11, 2022, 09:37:50 PM
Quote from: Oilcan on November 11, 2022, 06:53:23 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on November 11, 2022, 12:56:01 AM


My opinion is that Chamaco would go for Marjorie. She looks like the kind of dominatrix he would crave.

PS. Thanks for your suggestion, Oilcan. It works.

You are most welcome.  El Nino Carretero would never cheat on Trump.  Don't be fooled by his half hearted attempts to disown TFG.  Like lobsters and geese, Carretero bonds for life.  I've been observing his political mating habits for many years in the National threads.

So far, the votes are as follows:

carlos - Marjorie-s whip.
Fac - Rick Scott-s evilness.
Chip - Lauren-s AR15.
Oilcan - just plain mating with TFG.

Hey, Chamaco, u wanna break the tie?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 11, 2022, 10:27:17 PM
Looking forward to a replay of the Detroit game. We are starting to get fun to watch against bad teams.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 11, 2022, 10:32:59 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 11, 2022, 10:27:17 PM
Looking forward to a replay of the Detroit game. We are starting to get fun to watch against bad teams.

Haha

Thunder a tough team on Sunday
Title: Re: Chamacos Phantasies
Post by: facilitatorn on November 11, 2022, 10:37:57 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on November 11, 2022, 09:37:50 PM
Quote from: Oilcan on November 11, 2022, 06:53:23 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on November 11, 2022, 12:56:01 AM


My opinion is that Chamaco would go for Marjorie. She looks like the kind of dominatrix he would crave.

PS. Thanks for your suggestion, Oilcan. It works.

You are most welcome.  El Nino Carretero would never cheat on Trump.  Don't be fooled by his half hearted attempts to disown TFG.  Like lobsters and geese, Carretero bonds for life.  I've been observing his political mating habits for many years in the National threads.

So far, the votes are as follows:

carlos - Marjorie-s whip.
Fac - Rick Scott-s evilness.
Chip - Lauren-s AR15.
Oilcan - just plain mating with TFG.

Hey, Chamaco, u wanna break the tie?

Whatever fluffy ho kid pretends is his intermediary, his one political leader is and has always been Vladimir Putin, warrior, crusader, empire builder extraordinaire.
Title: Re: Chamacos Phantasies
Post by: carlos123 on November 11, 2022, 11:04:26 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 11, 2022, 10:37:57 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on November 11, 2022, 09:37:50 PM
Quote from: Oilcan on November 11, 2022, 06:53:23 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on November 11, 2022, 12:56:01 AM


My opinion is that Chamaco would go for Marjorie. She looks like the kind of dominatrix he would crave.

PS. Thanks for your suggestion, Oilcan. It works.

You are most welcome.  El Nino Carretero would never cheat on Trump.  Don't be fooled by his half hearted attempts to disown TFG.  Like lobsters and geese, Carretero bonds for life.  I've been observing his political mating habits for many years in the National threads.

So far, the votes are as follows:

carlos - Marjorie-s whip.
Fac - Rick Scott-s evilness.
Chip - Lauren-s AR15.
Oilcan - just plain mating with TFG.

Hey, Chamaco, u wanna break the tie?

Whatever fluffy ho kid pretends is his intermediary, his one political leader is and has always been Vladimir Putin, warrior, crusader, empire builder extraordinaire.

I dont know, Fac, BUT:

1- you already voted.
2- we are talking fancies, fantasies, intimacy, NOT political leadership.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 11, 2022, 11:28:19 PM
I vote early and often.

Fascists fancy the broken bitch that dominates them, in kids case Putin. He just pretends it
Title: Putin and Trumptin
Post by: carlos123 on November 12, 2022, 01:06:05 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 11, 2022, 11:28:19 PM
I vote early and often.

Fascists fancy the broken bitch that dominates them, in kids case Putin. He just pretends it

Putin certainly is Trumptins dominatrix, but I am sure he s not interested in lower level followers like Chamaco.

Of course this could be a case of unrequited love.

Most likely, lower level cogs such as Chamaco are not even aware of who is the real boss of his phantasy chain. He still perceives TFG or Marjorie or Lauren as his dream partner.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 12, 2022, 02:47:07 PM
Putin would toss Camacho in a trench in a heartbeat to slow the obliteration of all his hopes and dreams.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 12, 2022, 11:21:04 PM
Taking Kyrie off the Nyets left them with a much better team. Strange that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 13, 2022, 12:49:19 AM
Without Cole Anthony the Magic are actually a fun team.
Title: Yikes
Post by: chipstern on November 13, 2022, 03:26:32 PM
Got Milk?

I mean...D
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 13, 2022, 04:28:59 PM
OK, out of country and cannot watch games, but judging by the boxes it seems like Thibs may have lost the thread somewhere
Title: Verboten
Post by: carlos123 on November 13, 2022, 05:37:29 PM
Quote from: Les🐶 on November 13, 2022, 04:28:59 PM
OK, out of country and cannot watch games, but judging by the boxes it seems like Thibs may have lost the thread somewhere

Per Chips directive, criticizing Thibs is forbidden at least until mid December or so...

On the positive pussy side, Cam Reddish had a very good game, so there is something.
Title: Pussy Positivity Takes A Powder
Post by: chipstern on November 13, 2022, 05:39:55 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on November 13, 2022, 04:28:59 PM
OK, out of country and cannot watch games, but judging by the boxes it seems like Thibs may have lost the thread somewhere

I suspect changes are coming. 

We set a record for most points in the first quarter by a Knicks team. 

The bloom soon came off the rose. 

We were up 48-36 in the first quarter. 

Thunder outscored us 43-25 and 43-33 in the second and third. 

Knicks 29-23 in the fourth. 

Defense?  Nuked by threes.  Amongst other things. Allowed 17-31 treys...55-88 overall. That's 62.5%

FUCK ME. 

Press talks about Gligious-Alexander being on Knicks radar.  No shit.  I daresay, so is Wembanyama.  Alenxander is their best player and turned 24 in July.  DUD.  He and Giddey are a terrific backcourt: size skill shooting facilitating.  Supposedly impatient with the rebuild.  I call absolute BULLSHIT. 

Cam had an effective game on both ends, his best as a Knick: 4 steals and a block, 10-17 from the floor, 2-5 from trey, and 4-4 FTs in 33 minutes.  He was the only Knick starter with a plus +/-   [joined by Jericho, DRose and IQ [24-1-5 with three steals]...Obi and Evan broke even]

RJ struggled on both ends, was 2-10, and after he picked up his fourth foul, Thibs nailed him to the bench.  Nineteen [19] minutes.  What does that tell you? 

Fournier was 0-5 in twenty minutes, two assists and a steal. 

Julius had 25-10-3 and Jalen 17-1-7 with three steals [but a team leading -20].   

Jericho was a team leading +9, with 8-8-1 in 25 minutes.

Hartenstein was 14-7-1 in 23 minutes but a -19

A brutal road trip awaits. 

(https://www.nbcsports.com/sites/rsnunited/files/styles/crop_thumbnail/public/archive/assets_article/chicago/2019/02/07/thibs_4.jpg)

Expect Thibs to react accordingly.  The ineffectiveness of our D is positively surreal.  Sure miss Mitchell. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 13, 2022, 06:27:59 PM
If Grimes comes on that should help some. Do not want to rush it.

Which of our personnel were effective defending this game?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 13, 2022, 06:44:31 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 13, 2022, 06:27:59 PM
If Grimes comes on that should help some. Do not want to rush it.

Which of our personnel were effective defending this game?

Cam had four steals and was a +2, the only one of our starters to register a PLUS.

He has clearly won over Thibs.  I'm so happy for the young man.  He has earned Thibs' trust. 

RJ will be fine, but I suspect Grimes and Cam are going to cut into his minutes...no reason to task him with 38 a night, when 30 would do the trick.   

After all the preseason smart money had Cam as the odd man out, it looks like Fournier could be the 11th man in a 10 player rotation. 

Worth noting, for what it's worth, that in today's game Jericho got 25 minutes and Isiah got 23. 

Oh, and Thibs pulled both RJ and [AND] Jalen in the third quarter and they sat the rest of the game. 

On D getting beat?

Take a seat. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 14, 2022, 12:27:27 PM
OKC shot the lights out last game. But man, the Knick's defense was so...weak. So many wide, wide-open 3's. An embarrassing one at home.

RJ was coming off what I thought was his best game of the year, and managed to be awful in every aspect. I don't know, maybe he's not good with these early games.

And Fournier has been pretty bad in his new role. He needs a big game to turn things around.

There were consolation prizes (Cam was impressive), but it's getting way too old for the Knicks to get their ass kicked and then we talk about consolation prizes.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 14, 2022, 12:43:44 PM
Quote from: elephant on November 14, 2022, 12:27:27 PM
OKC shot the lights out last game. But man, the Knick's defense was so...weak. So many wide, wide-open 3's. An embarrassing one at home.

RJ was coming off what I thought was his best game of the year, and managed to be awful in every aspect. I don't know, maybe he's not good with these early games.

And Fournier has been pretty bad in his new role. He needs a big game to turn things around.

There were consolation prizes (Cam was impressive), but it's getting way too old for the Knicks to get their ass kicked and then we talk about consolation prizes.

The Dump.Thibs Drumbeat?

Growing.

Not sure if he has lost his team or if this is part of his Rinse Cycle.

Sitting RJ, Brunson, Fournier.

Still.not finding minutes for Obi

Tick

TOCK
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 14, 2022, 01:33:42 PM
I think the development of the offense shows some good signs.

I'm just startled with the defense in this one. 145 points in regulation off a Thibs team?

What exactly is going on?

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 14, 2022, 01:45:36 PM
They've bounced off the previous 3 losses with a victory each time.

I'm thinking it will continue with Utah.

We really got smoked last year, I don't know, January and February, floundering with loss after loss after loss, with Thibs unable to get the team to respond. This team seems better (thank you, Jalen). If they can gut out some wins in the first half of the season and emerge around the 500 mark, I think they'll be pretty well placed for the second half.

There's got to be some patience with this new setup.

But the defense? Good players look at the Knicks and lick their chops. That's got to change.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 14, 2022, 02:01:57 PM
Quote from: elephant on November 14, 2022, 01:33:42 PM
I think the development of the offense shows some good signs.

I'm just startled with the defense in this one. 145 points in regulation off a Thibs team?

What exactly is going on?

You need length and foot speed from every position to play consistent decent defense in the league these days. It is hard to find a Knicks lineup that does not have a deficit at two or three positions in terms of either size or speed. However we scheme, eventually that gets exploited.

Things will get a little better as we further faze out Fournier for Reddish and Grimes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 14, 2022, 04:38:42 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 14, 2022, 02:01:57 PM
Quote from: elephant on November 14, 2022, 01:33:42 PM
I think the development of the offense shows some good signs.

I'm just startled with the defense in this one. 145 points in regulation off a Thibs team?

What exactly is going on?

You need length and foot speed from every position to play consistent decent defense in the league these days. It is hard to find a Knicks lineup that does not have a deficit at two or three positions in terms of either size or speed. However we scheme, eventually that gets exploited.

Things will get a little better as we further faze out Fournier for Reddish and Grimes.

We shall see. 

I don't think Thibs wants to give up on Fournier, but Reddish's size and length and defensive chops have gotten his attention.  He is starting to finish his goofy indian rubber man drives to hoops and hit threes; if that trend continues, you are correct, Fournier is going to have to duke it out with IQ and Grimes for minutes. 

I don't know quite what to think of these Knicks. 

Jalen is an awesome offensive facilitator, and I love how he creates in the near field with his footwork and bounce.  Defense appears to be a challenge. 

RJ has been up and down.  Followed maybe his best game of the season, with one of his worst. 

Hartenstein is a positive presence on offense, though his three point prowess has yet to manifest.  But he is a very foul prone, and thought it was telling that Jericho got more minutes on Sunday, and had a positive +/- rating. 

What baffles me, is that FOR YEARS, before Thibs, as far back as I can remember, we have been getting burned by threes. Slow rotations?  Flawed man to man? 

As for our own threes? 

Julius has been a positive presence on the whole, but again, as with so many of our pups...DEFENSE.  I still cringe when he launches threes, though he from time to time gets quite hot, but it is fool's gold.  He is shooting .333%, so it is not a high perecentage move for us.  Cam is also shooting .333%, as is Fournier [shooting a grim .344% overall]   

Our best three point shooters are Obi [.400%] and D-Rose [.353%].

OTHERWISE?

Just awful. 

IH [.214%]
IQ [.280%]
JB [.294%]
RJ [.306%]

Ironically, Svi Mykhailiuk, our 25 year old bench bound 6'7" Wing, has taken three THREES during GarBaaage Time, and his percentage is .1000%
Title: Smell My Finger, Kiid
Post by: chipstern on November 14, 2022, 10:42:30 PM
(https://static.independent.co.uk/2022/10/11/19/Lake-Maga.jpg?width=1200)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 14, 2022, 10:49:50 PM
I think the threes are a factor of new PG and still adjusting to sets and subtleties.

The other side is more troubling. If you are making Brunson the point of attack, you cannot have Barrett and Randle with their level of D getting bell cow minutes against the offense put out by teams today. We could get by with one or the other, but Brunson, Randle, Barrett is going to have defensive problems based on length and foot speed no matter who the other two guys are. One will have to move. The three are denser than average and it effects their quickness and reach in scramble and recover situations that every team works to create and exploit.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 15, 2022, 10:05:25 AM
I suspect changes are coming.



Not at all sure why you would be looking to make changes off this effort.

OKC just had a ridiculous shooting night.  Uber talented squad, dropped game to BOS last night, on the road, by just 4.

I love this new wide open Knicks group.  Grimes/Reddish playing time should be interesting to watch.

NBA = PARITY right now.  We can be a game or two over/under .500 early on (first 35 or so) and be OK.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 15, 2022, 10:10:28 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 14, 2022, 10:49:50 PM

 
 
but Brunson, Randle, Barrett is going to have defensive problems based on length and foot speed no matter who the other two guys are.

 

Bingo

Going in we knew those Barrett and Brunson limitations.  Some nights this will bite us but embrace the offense.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 15, 2022, 10:14:07 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 11, 2022, 02:48:59 PM
Kid is a Rick  TIM Scott republican.       

Fixed.

Pompeo is interesting.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 15, 2022, 01:24:19 PM
Pompeo is as fascist as they get, a truly terrible person. He is right up your alley no doubt.
Title: How about
Post by: carlos123 on November 15, 2022, 03:00:15 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 15, 2022, 10:14:07 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 11, 2022, 02:48:59 PM
Kid is a Rick  TIM Scott republican.       

Fixed.

Pompeo is interesting.

And how about Giuliani?

You seem a Rudy kind of fan.
Title: Great Scott--The Lizards King & Hershel Walker [Kari Lake With A Smaller Penis]
Post by: chipstern on November 15, 2022, 03:14:06 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 15, 2022, 01:24:19 PM
Pompeo is as fascist as they get, a truly terrible person. He is right up your alley no doubt.

Better still, fellow Scott, Rick Scott wants to get ride of Social Security, which is not an "entitlement" but a federal insurance program funded by the beneficiaries themselves over the entire course of their employment lives. 

Yup.

Now there's a winning issue, Rick. 

Genius.

(https://seniorjustice.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/rick-scott-received-calls-on-nursing-home-deaths.jpg)

PS: And this creepy lizard is from Florida, which surely has a significant population of retirees.

PPS: Waiting eagerly to hear Kiid's arguments on behalf of Hershel Walker, Kari Lake with a smaller penis. 

(https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2022/10/18/screenshot-45-_wide-98b583e6dc70f2a2ddc33f10642dd544c06c7788-s1400-c100.png)
Title: WOW!!!
Post by: carlos123 on November 15, 2022, 11:36:34 PM
Just WOW!!!

Chip, eagerly awaiting you POSITIVE PUSSY REPORT, the more PPusier the BETTER.

😍 🏀 🎈
Title: Re: WOW!!!
Post by: chipstern on November 15, 2022, 11:54:45 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on November 15, 2022, 11:36:34 PM
Just WOW!!!

Chip, eagerly awaiting you POSITIVE PUSSY REPORT, the more PPusier the BETTER.

😍 🏀 🎈

Jalen

Jericho

IQ

Obi

CAM

Cam!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 16, 2022, 01:13:16 AM
Every little bit helps.

Evan gets more and more situational by the game.
Title: The best SIX
Post by: carlos123 on November 16, 2022, 01:21:26 AM
Quote from: chipstern on November 15, 2022, 11:54:45 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on November 15, 2022, 11:36:34 PM
Just WOW!!!

Chip, eagerly awaiting you POSITIVE PUSSY REPORT, the more PPusier the BETTER.

😍 🏀 🎈

Jalen

Jericho

IQ

Obi

CAM

Cam!

Right you are!

The best SIX, including a double serving of CAM.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 16, 2022, 09:34:09 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 15, 2022, 10:10:28 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 14, 2022, 10:49:50 PM

 
 
but Brunson, Randle, Barrett is going to have defensive problems based on length and foot speed no matter who the other two guys are.

 

Bingo

Going in we knew those Barrett and Brunson limitations.  Some nights this will bite us but embrace the offense.

Yyyepppp.
Title: ChamAAco praising Chamaco
Post by: carlos123 on November 16, 2022, 11:08:48 AM
Quote from: chamAAcocartero8 on November 16, 2022, 09:34:09 AM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on November 15, 2022, 10:10:28 AM
Quote from: Fac on November 14, 2022, 10:49:50 PM

but Brunson, Randle, Barrett is going to have defensive problems based on length and foot speed no matter who the other two guys are.

 

Bingo

Going in we knew those Barrett and Brunson limitations.  Some nights this will bite us but embrace the offense.

Yyyepppp.

ChamAAco praising Chamaco.
What else is new?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 16, 2022, 11:44:18 AM
I suspect changes are coming

heh

brutal road trip awaits

heh squared
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 16, 2022, 02:01:11 PM
I thought Fournier might have been hurt or something last game.

But apparently he just didn't get the nod to play.

Interesting.
Title: Thibs Shortens Rotation
Post by: chipstern on November 16, 2022, 02:10:06 PM
Situational?

We are now fourteen games into the season, and figuring out who we are. 

Alan & Wally on the MSG post-game show posited some time back how, in light of how deep into the roster is,  that it usually took teams a dozen or so games into the season to get alook at everybody, see what they had, and what combinations worked. 

Situational? 

Thibs whittled things down to a nine man rotation, which could become a 10 man rotation when Mitchell comes back, considering the case Jericho Sims has made for himself.  Jericho and IQ and Obi made significant contributions off the pine.

Defense was better.  More offensive coherernce.  Slight roll back in threes [slight]. 

Situational?

Evan and Quentin need to keep their powder dry, practice hard and stay ready. 

Denver IN DENVER, always a challenge, and even without Jokic, not to be taken lightly. 

PS: Hartenstein a foul jamboree for most of the game.  Still, was impressed by how he settled down and played down the stretch. 

PPS: Julius with 11 shots.  Jalen with 20, RJ with 18, Cam with 13. 

PPPS: Obi and IQ with team leading +/- of +23 and +18 respectively. 

PPPPS: Would like to see Julius rolling more to the rack on offense, to be ready for Brunson feeds IN MOTION, and more off ball activity, not to mention defense. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 16, 2022, 02:25:43 PM
But there's Grimes too.

I'm assuming they're bringing him back gently.

His combination of tenacity and a 3-point touch is way too promising to languish on the sidelines of a middling team.

BTW, how do you like Sim's aggression at center?



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 16, 2022, 02:49:31 PM
Tenacity and touch both depend on having sound feet. No rush there, but yeah it would help to have him available and getting up to speed.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 16, 2022, 03:24:56 PM
Quote from: elephant on November 16, 2022, 02:25:43 PM
But there's Grimes too.

I'm assuming they're bringing him back gently.

His combination of tenacity and a 3-point touch is way too promising to languish on the sidelines of a middling team.

BTW, how do you like Sim's aggression at center?

I simply LOVE Jericho Sims

He fascinates me

Incredible hops

Good instincts for gathering in boards

And there is this inscrutable calm about him
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 16, 2022, 03:27:00 PM
Yeah, and part of my use of the word tenacity references Grime's defensive prowess.

Defense. Toughness.

The losses against Brooklyn and Oklahoma left a bad taste in my mouth in this regard.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 16, 2022, 03:28:53 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 16, 2022, 03:24:56 PM
Quote from: elephant on November 16, 2022, 02:25:43 PM
But there's Grimes too.

I'm assuming they're bringing him back gently.

His combination of tenacity and a 3-point touch is way too promising to languish on the sidelines of a middling team.

BTW, how do you like Sim's aggression at center?

I simply LOVE Jericho Sims

He fascinates me

Incredible hops

Good instincts for gathering in boards

And there is this inscrutable calm about him

Yes to each point!

He gets up so fucking high. And a nose for the rebound.
Title: Minutes
Post by: chipstern on November 16, 2022, 03:33:15 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 16, 2022, 02:49:31 PM
Tenacity and touch both depend on having sound feet. No rush there, but yeah it would help to have him available and getting up to speed.

Announcers were speculating that R.J. has some sort of illness he is dealing with. 

Still, Thibs played him, what, 38 minutes? 

Made some good plays, but FTs took a step back at 7-12, and I believe he was 0-5 from trey. 

Cam played 33 minutes. 

Seems to me that between RJ and Cam there are maybe 8 minutes that could parsed off for Grimes, just to get him into gear. 

I also harbor the vague and misspent hope for Thibs to find some minues for Svi.  He is our best three point shooter, and we need someone to come in and nail bombs on demand. 

In any event, more likely Sims keeps getting minutes when MR returns, than that Thibs extends his rotation much beyond 9-10.   

My hope, vain as it might be, is that Thibs finds more time for Julius and Obi to be on the court together.  Obi is our best three point shooter, and in 18 minutes last night he nailed 3-of-4 treys, with 6 boards AND 4 assists, only one foul and no turnovers. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 16, 2022, 03:35:14 PM
Quote from: elephant on November 16, 2022, 03:28:53 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 16, 2022, 03:24:56 PM
Quote from: elephant on November 16, 2022, 02:25:43 PM
But there's Grimes too.

I'm assuming they're bringing him back gently.

His combination of tenacity and a 3-point touch is way too promising to languish on the sidelines of a middling team.

BTW, how do you like Sim's aggression at center?

I simply LOVE Jericho Sims

He fascinates me

Incredible hops

Good instincts for gathering in boards

And there is this inscrutable calm about him

Yes to each point!

He gets up so fucking high. And a nose for the rebound.

He is also possesses...wait for it...

Matinee Idol Looks. 

A handsome young man, who projects as a quiet, sensitive, thoughtful, focused young brother. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 16, 2022, 10:59:10 PM
Jesus. The Heart Machine is missing an awful lot of rebounds.
Title: KING JULIUS!!!
Post by: carlos123 on November 17, 2022, 12:19:32 AM
All of you haters, just shut up and be thankful for KING JULIUS!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 17, 2022, 12:29:03 AM
Like, wow.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 17, 2022, 03:19:54 AM
We found a top gear tonight.

Interesting closing lineup.

GS will be a much much tougher opponent.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 17, 2022, 07:20:46 AM
That was nice.....

A very fine closing lineup. Best part was RJ wasn't in it. For the life of me can't figure out how he got 31 minutes when he sucked for each and every one of them. ***

Loved seeing Obi out there with Julius and then loved seeing Thibs pull him when necessary for Sims.

Love how IQ doesn't chuck 40 footers any more, was almost really impressed with his new game until he looked off Rose at the end of the 3rd to dribble his way into a 24-second violation.

Way more good than bad. JR was a beast, which is what he is supposed to be.

Nice start to the trip.


*** Thibs is SUCH an asshat, lol, can't hide from the facts!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 17, 2022, 09:36:56 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on November 17, 2022, 07:20:46 AM

A very fine closing lineup. Best part was RJ wasn't in it. For the life of me can't figure out how he got 31 minutes when he sucked for each and every one of them.

Classic Thibs moment last night. Even with a healthy RJ, his poor play (he was out of it) should have resulted in half those minutes. Not with Thibs.

We have guys who can play on the bench!

But then to hear Breens again and again talk about how RJ is fighting through some illness...why in the fuck was he out there?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 17, 2022, 09:40:11 AM
Also thank the gods for a real point guard.

Also Sims is making a case for minutes when Mitch returns.

Also the desire of Julius.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 17, 2022, 01:07:46 PM
Quote from: elephant on November 17, 2022, 09:36:56 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on November 17, 2022, 07:20:46 AM

A very fine closing lineup. Best part was RJ wasn't in it. For the life of me can't figure out how he got 31 minutes when he sucked for each and every one of them.

Classic Thibs moment last night. Even with a healthy RJ, his poor play (he was out of it) should have resulted in half those minutes. Not with Thibs.

We have guys who can play on the bench!

But then to hear Breens again and again talk about how RJ is fighting through some illness...why in the fuck was he out there?

Illness evidently going through entire team

Thins went 9 man again since it worked.  Expect more vs GS.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 17, 2022, 01:08:18 PM
GOOD game for Hyland I see.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 17, 2022, 01:19:07 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 17, 2022, 03:19:54 AM
We found a top gear tonight.

Interesting closing lineup.

GS will be a much much tougher opponent.

Are you sure?  Why?

As the season progresses you will realize it is more about how we play (can teams stop us) than who the opponent is.  Excepting of course the occasional game (OKC) where a team jut can't miss.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 17, 2022, 02:07:31 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 17, 2022, 01:08:18 PM
GOOD game for Hyland I see.

Excellent game, nice find for the Nuggets.

As for illness going through the team, had to be somebody on the bench less likely to cost us the game than RJ. Guy is like the 9th best shooter on the team and chucks it up like he's our Steph Curry.

Honestly, if he wasn't a number three pick and had a real coach, he'd be getting 10 minutes a game somewhere. 31 with the flu? At least Thibs woke up with 5 minutes left and decided to keep his job. Of course, he has to play him up until that point in order for Leon to keep his job.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 17, 2022, 02:57:35 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 17, 2022, 01:19:07 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 17, 2022, 03:19:54 AM
We found a top gear tonight.

Interesting closing lineup.

GS will be a much much tougher opponent.

Are you sure?  Why?

As the season progresses you will realize it is more about how we play (can teams stop us) than who the opponent is.  Excepting of course the occasional game (OKC) where a team jut can't miss.

Who the opponent is and who they have available makes a huge difference. Not that playing well is not important, but even playing as well as we did, had Gordon or Jokic been available we would not have been in the game.
Title: Tumescent Dawg--The harfd On Chronicles
Post by: chipstern on November 17, 2022, 03:33:22 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on November 17, 2022, 02:07:31 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 17, 2022, 01:08:18 PM
GOOD game for Hyland I see.

Excellent game, nice find for the Nuggets.

As for illness going through the team, had to be somebody on the bench less likely to cost us the game than RJ. Guy is like the 9th best shooter on the team and chucks it up like he's our Steph Curry.

Honestly, if he wasn't a number three pick and had a real coach, he'd be getting 10 minutes a game somewhere. 31 with the flu? At least Thibs woke up with 5 minutes left and decided to keep his job. Of course, he has to play him up until that point in order for Leon to keep his job.

More wackamole vendetta for not giving up half the team and half our draft picks for Mitchell, as per usual. 

Yeah, RJ was stinking up the joint.  Without a doubt.

Clearly he is [has been] out of sorts.  Illness? 

Dawg would suggest otherwise. 

Even so, I think Thibs played him 38 against Utah and 30 + against the Nuggets. 

I mean WhatTheActualFuck? 

Still Thibs had a moment of clarity in closing with: JR-Obi-Cam-IQ-Jalen

RJ ALWAYS Bounces Back, DoucheNozzleDawg.

Sims once again. 

Brunson clutchCLutchCLUTCH from the FT line. 

Thibs enjoying his new Chew Toy...Cam Reddish, who effectively neutered Porter.  Heartwarming. 

Rose calibrating his game.  Stay healthy D-Rose. 

One thing I and the DawgPounder agree on. 

THAT IS THE WAY JULIUS NEEDS TO PLAY.  Defense + Fire + BullyBoying By The Rack = Wins
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 17, 2022, 03:41:51 PM
OK, maybe I'm a little hard on RJ.

But I can't see any more of those goddam 4-19's!!

Stop fucking shooting. Do something else. You are not a very good shooter. You hurt the team when you shoot so f'ing much especially when you can't hit shit. Develop some other aspect of your game in the game. Learn to finish or fling outside of play time.

Why the fuck do you think you should take more shots than anybody else on the team when just about everybody else on the team has a better f'ing chance of getting the ball to go down?

The objective of your every foray should be to get the ball to somebody else in a position to score because they are all better at it than you.

Thibs shouldn't have to stop you.

*****That MFer has gotten more unearned minutes and shots than anybody else in the league in a desperate attempt by our front office to justify the pick..

And Dats Da Truth, Da Whole Damn Truth


****Notice I haven't brought it up in a while nor mentioned the name Donoman..but those 4 for 19's, shut it down clown...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 17, 2022, 04:31:30 PM
I think you are on your way to creating a 6
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 17, 2022, 05:38:44 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on November 17, 2022, 03:41:51 PM
OK, maybe I'm a little hard on RJ.

But I can't see any more of those goddam 4-19's!!

Stop fucking shooting. Do something else. You are not a very good shooter. You hurt the team when you shoot so f'ing much especially when you can't hit shit. Develop some other aspect of your game in the game. Learn to finish or fling outside of play time.

Why the fuck do you think you should take more shots than anybody else on the team when just about everybody else on the team has a better f'ing chance of getting the ball to go down?

The objective of your every foray should be to get the ball to somebody else in a position to score because they are all better at it than you.

Thibs shouldn't have to stop you.

*****That MFer has gotten more unearned minutes and shots than anybody else in the league in a desperate attempt by our front office to justify the pick..

And Dats Da Truth, Da Whole Damn Truth


****Notice I haven't brought it up in a while nor mentioned the name Donoman..but those 4 for 19's, shut it down clown...

Agree

I was screaming. 

"RJ, stop shooting.  Get to the foul line. Has had better daze [7-12]...still. 

Thibs should have reigned him in. 

Still, TT did bench him for most of the second half when he bricking and getting gelded on D against, was it the Thunder?

PS: Thunder came very close to running the same table against the Celtics. 

PPS: I trust we won't hear any more fucking Gilgous-Alexander trade rumors involving the Knicks.  I mean...HELLO.  Alexander/Giddy some sort of backcourt for OKC to build around. 

PPPS: How do you account for RJ's post-All-Star Game run in the Spring?  More Kleenex when Dawg gets historical when rubbing one out. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 17, 2022, 06:00:02 PM
He looked good end of last year. He did.

But the free pass has got to end. Year four. Time to understand success may be D up, go 4-10, get to the line some, grab boards, open up shots for Cam or Julius or Obi or Fournier or whoever. STOP F'ING SHOOTING OVER AND OVER. YOU AIN'T AND WILL NEVER BE THAT GUY WHO SHOULD BE DOING THAT. YOUR TOUCH IS NOT THAT GOOD. YOUR FINISH IS NOT THAT GOOD. IT WILL NEVER BE THAT GOOD.

But that doesn't mean you can't be a fine all around basketball player.

People hope he'll be a Butler. Butler is the happiest guy in the world to NOT shoot the ball all game and win.

I won't prattle on. Last night brought a good vibe. Looking forward to GS.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 17, 2022, 06:27:59 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 17, 2022, 01:19:07 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 17, 2022, 03:19:54 AM
We found a top gear tonight.

Interesting closing lineup.

GS will be a much much tougher opponent.

Are you sure?  Why?

As the season progresses you will realize it is more about how we play (can teams stop us) than who the opponent is.  Excepting of course the occasional game (OKC) where a team jut can't miss.

We still haven't shown we can beat a team with a healthy star. Embiid was gone in that 2-point win; Jokik last night.

When facing, say, a Mitchell, Durant or Gilgeous-Alexander, we falter.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 17, 2022, 06:29:47 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on November 17, 2022, 03:41:51 PM
OK, maybe I'm a little hard on RJ.

But I can't see any more of those goddam 4-19's!!

Stop fucking shooting. Do something else. You are not a very good shooter. You hurt the team when you shoot so f'ing much especially when you can't hit shit. Develop some other aspect of your game in the game. Learn to finish or fling outside of play time.

Why the fuck do you think you should take more shots than anybody else on the team when just about everybody else on the team has a better f'ing chance of getting the ball to go down?

The objective of your every foray should be to get the ball to somebody else in a position to score because they are all better at it than you.

Thibs shouldn't have to stop you.


Maybe. For me, it's more on Thibs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 17, 2022, 06:30:52 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on November 17, 2022, 06:00:02 PM
But that doesn't mean you can't be a fine all around basketball player.

People hope he'll be a Butler. Butler is the happiest guy in the world to NOT shoot the ball all game and win.


This is a good and interesting comment. Maybe you're on to something, Lester.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 17, 2022, 06:46:57 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on November 17, 2022, 06:00:02 PM
He looked good end of last year. He did.

But the free pass has got to end. Year four. Time to understand success may be D up, go 4-10, get to the line some, grab boards, open up shots for Cam or Julius or Obi or Fournier or whoever. STOP F'ING SHOOTING OVER AND OVER. YOU AIN'T AND WILL NEVER BE THAT GUY WHO SHOULD BE DOING THAT. YOUR TOUCH IS NOT THAT GOOD. YOUR FINISH IS NOT THAT GOOD. IT WILL NEVER BE THAT GOOD.

But that doesn't mean you can't be a fine all around basketball player.

People hope he'll be a Butler. Butler is the happiest guy in the world to NOT shoot the ball all game and win.

I won't prattle on. Last night brought a good vibe. Looking forward to GS.

Don't agree he is not a good finisher. 

Nor that RJ is getting a free pass.  He's a competitor. 

Jimmy Butler does indeed beckon. 

Everything else seems reasonable. 

I do not believe he feels as though he has to justify his contract.  Rather, he wants to shoulder his share of the  load. 

Oddly, I would consul RJ to observe the evolution of his DUKIE, Cam Reddish, who went from trade bait afterthought, hack on the back of the pine, to trusted Thibian. 

Play Defense, facilitate the offense with movement and passes, don't force the issue, go to the rack. 

End of last season, RJ was hitting his threes.  Don't feel as though he should be tasked with that. 

Look at how Jalen scores, RJ.  Old school.  Don't force jumpers but get into someone's grill, and create space for easy shots in the near field.  You are good at creating contact.  Milk that. 

FUCKING THREES. 

Julius is hitting like 33%.  The threat keeps defenses honest, for sure. 

STILL. 

Julius was 3-10 from trey last night. 

Julius was 8-11 from the near field and the rack. 

We as a team are not great three point shooters. 

Our best so far are Obi and Rose. 

Live and learn, Knicks. 

Don't force the issue, RJ. 
Title: Elba Glitches
Post by: chipstern on November 18, 2022, 02:53:02 PM
For what it's worth. 

This morning...tried accessing ELBA from my android afew times, but no connection. 

Went back to sleep. 

Turned on my computer. 

Tried accessing the site a few times after loading Google Chrome. 

No connection. 

What I have tried, and has worked on occassion, is having loaded Google Chrome, and accessed a couple of web sites, such as Facebook and YouTube, I'll close Chrome, than reload it and click ELBA, and voila, it loads. 

Having said this, as I attempt to make this post, what has happenned before it, that when hitting POST, I get the non-connection message.

So I have taken to copying my post's content and sending it to myself as an email, and try posting it again later when ELBA is in a more obliging mood. 

3...2...1

ZERO

PS: Hoops Rumor Poop for today holds that the Knicks have received and are entertaining offers for Derrick Rose and Immanquel Quickley.  GOD, I hope not, backcourt logjam notwithstanding.  My inner Facil says, trade Fournier.  We shall see. 
Title: Re: Elba Glitches
Post by: chipstern on November 18, 2022, 02:54:01 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 18, 2022, 02:53:02 PM
For what it's worth. 

This morning...tried accessing ELBA from my android afew times, but no connection. 

Went back to sleep. 

Turned on my computer. 

Tried accessing the site a few times after loading Google Chrome. 

No connection. 

What I have tried, and has worked on occassion, is having loaded Google Chrome, and accessed a couple of web sites, such as Facebook and YouTube, I'll close Chrome, than reload it and click ELBA, and voila, it loads. 

Having said this, as I attempt to make this post, what has happenned before it, that when hitting POST, I get the non-connection message.

So I have taken to copying my post's content and sending it to myself as an email, and try posting it again later when ELBA is in a more obliging mood. 

3...2...1

ZERO

PS: Hoops Rumor Poop for today holds that the Knicks have received and are entertaining offers for Derrick Rose and Immanquel Quickley.  GOD, I hope not, backcourt logjam notwithstanding.  My inner Facil says, trade Fournier.  We shall see.

Took Several Clicks And ReLoads To Get Back Here And for Elba To post my toast. 
Title: Lauren Chamaco Boebert
Post by: carlos123 on November 18, 2022, 03:19:48 PM
It is official. Her opponent has conceded.
Lauren AR15 Boebert will go back to Washington. Lordy have mercy!
Congrats Chamaco.
Title: Count Your Blessings
Post by: chipstern on November 18, 2022, 04:29:08 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on November 18, 2022, 03:19:48 PM
It is official. Her opponent has conceded.
Lauren AR15 Boebert will go back to Washington. Lordy have mercy!
Congrats Chamaco.

(https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-bdb069a3fcccf5f8571582baaaf133d6-pjlq)

(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/1DQYzRc9FQsfPHAFKh4vTQ--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTY0MDtoPTQyNw--/https://media.zenfs.com/en/the_huffington_post_584/10360bb0f4510440341869b1a6094b61)

Count Your Blessings
Title: Re: Count Your Blessings
Post by: carlos123 on November 18, 2022, 05:55:59 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 18, 2022, 04:29:08 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on November 18, 2022, 03:19:48 PM
It is official. Her opponent has conceded.
Lauren AR15 Boebert will go back to Washington. Lordy have mercy!
Congrats Chamaco.

(https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-bdb069a3fcccf5f8571582baaaf133d6-pjlq)

(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/1DQYzRc9FQsfPHAFKh4vTQ--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTY0MDtoPTQyNw--/https://media.zenfs.com/en/the_huffington_post_584/10360bb0f4510440341869b1a6094b61)

Count Your Blessings

Well, yeah.

And, to Chamaco and Co., CUNT YOUR F-IN BLESSINGS
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 18, 2022, 11:52:21 PM
Closing in on the end of the 3rd quarter and once again....

Barrett has taken more shots than any other Knick.

Some really bad 3's. And he's 4 for 14 at this point.

And Thib's has given him more minutes than anyone else on the team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 19, 2022, 12:02:23 AM
Again, this is on Thibs.

It's as if he made the decision to play RJ no matter what.

That's the inflexibility that's so bewildering.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 19, 2022, 12:20:21 AM
Quote from: chipstern on November 17, 2022, 06:46:57 PM

We as a team are not great three point shooters. 

Our best so far are Obi and Rose. 

Naw.

Our two best 3-point shooters happen to be glued to the bench.
Title: The Myth of the Welfare Queen
Post by: lesterluv on November 19, 2022, 09:28:25 AM
Yes, the free minute man getting his usual.

Thibs bores the F out of me.

Was nodding in-and-out, probably the West Coast hours, but worried we're getting to the "don't really need to watch this stage" rather earlier in the season then I expected.

*** What part of the body did Mitch injure again? I think I might be missing him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 19, 2022, 09:58:05 AM
Looking back at it, that singular Quentin Grimes start, a few brief minutes, before he got disappeared along with Evan.

Reminiscent somehow of Fizwhale's opening game start of Alonzo Trier at PG when he couldn't decide between Frank and Dennis.

Start and scuttle. Weird and flailing. What you do when you don't have a clue. A robot burping before going back to the routine.


*** RJ Barrett better roll out of bed each morning and say "today I am the luckiest man on the face of the Earth."
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 19, 2022, 02:05:20 PM
Feet take a while, as do idled legs. Grimes will get there and break through and get his spot. Better he drip in without setbacks than have a load dumped on him under which whe he will likely break.

Groins can also take a while. If Cam is out for a stretch, Hunt should get a meaningful look in that role. Next man up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 19, 2022, 02:44:56 PM
The Dubs had also just gotten embarrassingly torched by Cam Payne and a depleted Suns team. Shutting down guards was very fresh in their minds.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 19, 2022, 04:49:25 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 19, 2022, 02:05:20 PM
Feet take a while, as do idled legs. Grimes will get there and break through and get his spot. Better he drip in without setbacks than have a load dumped on him under which whe he will likely break.


Well, really, there's no reason why Grimes couldn't play a good fucking deal more without a "load dumped on him."

The LOAD mantra is part of Thib's outdated inability for flexibility and adjustment.

This kind of rigid approach doesn't work well in modern baseball or football either.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 19, 2022, 05:29:28 PM
Ease in, sure, drip in, ok, Thibs doing neither. He went ALL IN, ALL OUT with that strange, singular start.

The glitch in the game as it short circuits.

Title: YIKES
Post by: chipstern on November 19, 2022, 11:47:19 PM
🙊🙉🙈
Title: Thibs
Post by: carlos123 on November 20, 2022, 01:06:47 AM
Well, he had one well coached game, I forgot which, and I promised I would not criticize him until at least December or maybe, MAYBE, until the spring.

It is getting hard to keep my promise, that is all I can say.

Oh, and I am dropping the MAYBE part. That was contingent on performance.
Title: Negative Nancies Unite
Post by: chipstern on November 20, 2022, 01:26:25 AM
Let's see.

RJ was 6-19, 1-5 from trey

K

J Poole was 5-17, 3-8 from trey

Dame Lillard was 2-14, 1-12 from trey

Scottie Barnes was 11-29

Anthony Edwards was 7-21, 2-10 from trey

On the ther hand

Darius Garland was 16-26
Donovan Mitchell was 11-22

Still early

But hey.

Let it all out. 

Title: Re: Negative Nancies Unite
Post by: elephant on November 20, 2022, 10:13:11 AM
Quote from: chipstern on November 20, 2022, 01:26:25 AM
Let's see.

RJ was 6-19, 1-5 from trey

K

J Poole was 5-17, 3-8 from trey

Dame Lillard was 2-14, 1-12 from trey

Scottie Barnes was 11-29

Anthony Edwards was 7-21, 2-10 from trey

On the ther hand

Darius Garland was 16-26
Donovan Mitchell was 11-22

Still early

But hey.

Let it all out.

I won't say this is the weakest thing you've ever written.

But it's pretty bad.

So your argument is that you found a few other good ballplayers who played poorly on a particular day, and it's "negative" to call out one of our players who also played poorly.

Aside from the sin of comparing RJ, who has never proved himself a winner, with Lillard who has won Portland game after game after game. Aside from that kind of nonsense.....

You're ignoring that RJ has played terribly in multiple games, that he's been sick and still shoots the ball more than teammates who are healthy and better shot makers, and that there were quality players on the bench who weren't even called up for spot minutes.

Which is why I was questioning Thibs, not RJ. I don't expect a sick player with competitive spirit to take himself out of the lineup. That's what a (good) coach is for. Some guys can still play well when they're feeling poorly. Some can't. (You tell me which you think RJ is.)

Jesus, when Reddish went down, Thibs tightened the rotation to 8, rather than bring in anyone else. It's inexplicable.

We have talent, Chip.

We won in Denver and Salt Lake City despite the coach, not because of him.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 20, 2022, 11:51:49 AM
New day, new chance for Thibs to green light RJ for a full 40, regardless of circumstance.
 
Let's see what Phoenix brings. Odds are RJ has to have a good one, right? Excited for the daytime game. I can probably stay awake.

My continuing quest to understand exactly who RJ is (important since he will be around for a very long time, thanks Leon) brought me to the Basketball Reference player career arc comparisons.

The name that kept popping up for Mr. Endless Consequence-Free Minutes?

The illustrious Melvin "Mouse" Riebe, born in Cleveland, 1916, moved to the great beyond in 1977.

In 1946, this volume shooter broke out for 12 points a game for the Cleveland Rebels during his rookie season. Shrunk to 7 per in a losing three game playoff series vs the Knicks that spring.

Couldn't really build on that in 2 more years with the Boston Celtics and the Providence Steamrollers (the Rebels folded after a single season). His pro career never saw the 1950s.

The rest of his days happily spent as Waynedale High gym teacher in Apple Creek, Ohio.

Hmmmm.......

(https://ansel.frgimages.com/fullerton-flyers/number-8-mel-riebe-1948-bowman-basketball-cards-star-graded-exmt-_ss2_p-13916003+pv-19901241+u-3zab2srie8pwsvvh7vs5+v-8bcc8bb677c141e1a9d989874c207452.jpg?_hv=2&w=300)


*** video impossible to find, but his game has been simulated here https://youtu.be/4EP9oC3KDdc?t=578 (https://youtu.be/4EP9oC3KDdc?t=578)
Title: I am going to get it ALL out of my system BEFORE game time.
Post by: lesterluv on November 20, 2022, 02:41:33 PM
and PINKYSWEAR not to besmirch RJ again until say, December 20th at the very earliest!
but here it is in a pretty picture...every player in the NBA, every game, through yesterday.

This is why our eyes hurt, lol, check lower left:

(https://preview.redd.it/30tjurdsn61a1.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=d37571a9d8917c64b8e87a7433fa1b2289113802)

Source: https://twitter.com/nba_math/status/1594351992788635648?s=46&t=tFUE7gbDh4ooZTuWEjIIjg (https://twitter.com/nba_math/status/1594351992788635648?s=46&t=tFUE7gbDh4ooZTuWEjIIjg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 20, 2022, 10:03:19 PM
No ease in or drip in necessary. Grimes comes in cool and clean, clearly our best player at both ends in the first half.



That the end of the good stuff.

Title: Da Doggie 🐶 Chronicles
Post by: carlos123 on November 20, 2022, 11:39:42 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on November 20, 2022, 10:03:19 PM
No ease in or drip in necessary. Grimes comes in cool and clean, clearly our best player at both ends in the first half.



That the end of the good stuff.

Come on my doggie 🐶

Give us the full story

PLEASE
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 21, 2022, 01:36:25 AM
well if you must know, I spent much of the game cursing Randle

stuff like this: https://twitter.com/BigKnickEnergy_/status/1594454215237152768 (https://twitter.com/BigKnickEnergy_/status/1594454215237152768)


*** honestly don't know why Fournier was demoted, he was the second-best defender in the starting lineup at the time, lol, lol...sigh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 21, 2022, 09:52:52 AM
Yes, at season's start, I wanted Grimes to replace Fournier as a starter.

And yes, Fournier has struggled to find his way as a backup (which seems understandable).

IN WHAT WORLD, does that mean you don't play the guy anymore?

Especially when we're losing a good hunk of our games, and our 3-point shooting is terrible.

Again, unless Fournier has simply said, "Trade Me," I don't see a method to Thib's madness. These are the "Thibs things" that make us weaker than we need to be.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 21, 2022, 10:51:50 AM
In some ways, both Fournier and Obi (who not coincidentally has also been "terrible" of late) are litmus tests for the state of an intelligent, functioning offense with sharing and caring, rhythm, ball and player movement, etc....

Neither does much in terms of setting up their own shot. They thrive as we thrive and vice-versa. The better we play, the more we leverage their skills.

Right now we have largely devolved to who can get it to the hoop off maybe a single screen or handoff, a losing game for us as only Brunson & Rose can do that with any kind of efficiency.

Thibs has lost the thread. I would surely love us to move on.

*** Plus there's the fact that he clearly no longer motivates his big dogs to shake their m'fn asses. Randle is one LAZY LOAF if for whatever reason his head ain't there.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 21, 2022, 11:02:05 AM
Here's a four-year old Barrett piece that is both must-read and you really don't want to read cause it is so spot on.

Only click if you can handle the truth.

Why I'm out on R.J. Barrett as an Elite NBA Prospect
https://medium.com/sportsraid/rj-barrett-not-elite-nba-draft-prospect-2019-basketball-duke-rankings-canada-overrated-bust-cf106ca4900

There's clearly some recognition of the truth in our front office, why it was RJ made readily available, and Grimes made untouchable, in the Donovan talks.

But now there's that contract..

*** Moving RJ (not Fournier, not Reddish) to the bench best way to salvage that contract, his career, our team.
Title: Re: Negative Nancies Unite
Post by: chipstern on November 21, 2022, 12:21:24 PM
Quote from: elephant on November 20, 2022, 10:13:11 AM
Quote from: chipstern on November 20, 2022, 01:26:25 AM
Let's see.

RJ was 6-19, 1-5 from trey

K

J Poole was 5-17, 3-8 from trey

Dame Lillard was 2-14, 1-12 from trey

Scottie Barnes was 11-29

Anthony Edwards was 7-21, 2-10 from trey

On the ther hand

Darius Garland was 16-26
Donovan Mitchell was 11-22

Still early

But hey.

Let it all out.

I won't say this is the weakest thing you've ever written.

But it's pretty bad.

So your argument is that you found a few other good ballplayers who played poorly on a particular day, and it's "negative" to call out one of our players who also played poorly.

Aside from the sin of comparing RJ, who has never proved himself a winner, with Lillard who has won Portland game after game after game. Aside from that kind of nonsense.....

You're ignoring that RJ has played terribly in multiple games, that he's been sick and still shoots the ball more than teammates who are healthy and better shot makers, and that there were quality players on the bench who weren't even called up for spot minutes.

Which is why I was questioning Thibs, not RJ. I don't expect a sick player with competitive spirit to take himself out of the lineup. That's what a (good) coach is for. Some guys can still play well when they're feeling poorly. Some can't. (You tell me which you think RJ is.)

Jesus, when Reddish went down, Thibs tightened the rotation to 8, rather than bring in anyone else. It's inexplicable.

We have talent, Chip.

We won in Denver and Salt Lake City despite the coach, not because of him.

(https://api.time.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/rasputin.jpeg?quality=85&w=556)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 21, 2022, 01:49:27 PM
RJ needs to drop ten pounds to be most effective. It will help him on both ends.
Title: Postscript Post Mortem
Post by: chipstern on November 21, 2022, 02:25:50 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 21, 2022, 01:49:27 PM
RJ needs to drop ten pounds to be most effective. It will help him on both ends.

Do you really see RJ as being zaftig? 

Apparently there is some sort of bug infecting everyone. 

One of our weaker efforts last night. 

Still, when Cam & Derrick went down, Grimes [10-5-8] & McBride [4-5 with a steal] stepped to the fore. 

Be interesting to see how we respond to OKC tonight, considering what they did to us on our home floor. 

PS: It is interesting to see how Jericho has cemented his place in Thibs' heart filling in for Mitchell. He is 7-9 from the FT line, after being a sub .500 FT shooter last season.   

PPS: I, too, find Thibs' treatment of Fournier baffling, bordering on bizzare.  Evan has transmogrified into Kemba 2.1, and while he has clearly fallen behind Cam & Quentin in the rotation scheme of things, odd to see Svi get the call for the final five and not EV, though I reckon THAT would be something of an insult, would it not.  Still.  Being glued to the pine suggests a Kemba-Like fart in the general direction of the front office. 

PPPS: Classic Third Quarter MeltDown Yesterday.  The degree of ennui was numbing. 

PPPPS: Fucking three pointers.  Yet Thibs philosophy seems to be, if it's a good shot, keep hoisting.  We were a wan 7-27, while the Suns were a robust 17-39

PPPPPS: We were 20-25 from the FT line, a solid 80%, which would seem to suggest that we should be attacking the rack, and not settling for fucking 25 foot dying quails. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 21, 2022, 05:17:01 PM
Brunson Grimes Reddish Toppin Sims looks like our best group when all are healthy. With Cam down and RJ leaking oil, we have a big hole at small forward.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 21, 2022, 05:19:37 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 21, 2022, 05:17:01 PM
Brunson Grimes Reddish Toppin Sims looks like our best group when all are healthy. With Cam down and RJ leaking oil, we have a big hole at small forward.

Writing off Randle, are we?

That's rich. 

I'm sure Thibs shares your point of view. 

PS: I love Obi, but he doesn't get a hall pass for his ineffectiveness these past two games, when he was a disaster. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 21, 2022, 06:37:34 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 21, 2022, 05:19:37 PM

PS: I love Obi, but he doesn't get a hall pass for his ineffectiveness these past two games, when he was a disaster.

This is absolutely fair. There is something to the idea of coming through when you are needed.

Obi needs to show that he can deliver when the other guys are off.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 21, 2022, 06:38:43 PM
The Rasputin image cracked me up. Grabbing that sucker for my desktop.

You, sir, are a multimedia artist sometimes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 21, 2022, 06:50:15 PM
Quote from: elephant on November 21, 2022, 06:38:43 PM
The Rasputin image cracked me up. Grabbing that sucker for my desktop.

You, sir, are a multimedia artist sometimes.

The passion of your post warranted a righteous shout out. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 21, 2022, 06:51:26 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 21, 2022, 06:50:15 PM
Quote from: elephant on November 21, 2022, 06:38:43 PM
The Rasputin image cracked me up. Grabbing that sucker for my desktop.

You, sir, are a multimedia artist sometimes.

The passion of your post warranted a righteous shout out.

And a chuckle
Title: Shout Out To Negative Nancies
Post by: chipstern on November 21, 2022, 09:26:37 PM
DEUCE & GRIMES

Meanwhile, RJ channelling his Inner LesterDawg

Quarter and a galf to go. 

Still.  Progress of sorts.

As you were Negative Nancies.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 21, 2022, 11:21:08 PM
We come off the road trip no worse than we went in. Still treading water with smidgens of daylight seen for the kids.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 22, 2022, 11:38:33 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 21, 2022, 11:21:08 PM
We come off the road trip no worse than we went in. Still treading water with smidgens of daylight seen for the kids.

I think better.

The response to OKC was important.

The tenacity of McBride and Grimes yesterday was an eye-opener. This is what we're talking about. And loosen up the fucking rotation. Loved how the big men were used yesterday. They all made an impact. And we had time on the floor with just Obi and Randle.

Funny I was looking at McBride's stat line, and if you didn't see the game, you wouldn't know how well he played.

We also "learned" or were "reminded" on this trip that Julius can still be an emotional head case emotionally vulnerable. Coaches will have to intervene with him when necessary, or risk some of last year's shitstorm.

I like Thibs and appreciate his intensity. But that stick in his ass! It's awesome when it comes out! We can't keep winning without an approach that's flexible and accountable. Use the talent!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 22, 2022, 01:46:36 PM
Yep, something for everyone on that road trip, for the most negative nancies and most positive p's as well.

Thibs at his most and least Thibsian. Julius as both Big Bad Dog and Lard Loaf. RJ being...RJ Barrett! The bench mob ready to mob...if allowed.

I'd rather go into the mid week holiday half full than half empty, and they gave us reasons to be thankful in OKC. Will take it.


*** but there's gotta be a move soon by Leon, either bench or personnel, because right now, there's no hint at F.O. strategy, just one big half full half empty seemingly directionless mess.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 22, 2022, 01:48:16 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on November 22, 2022, 01:46:36 PM
Yep, something for everyone on that road trip, for the most negative nancies and most positive p's as well.

Thibs at his most and least Thibsian. Julius as both Big Bad Dog and Lard Loaf. RJ being...RJ Barrett! The bench mob ready to mob...if allowed.

I'd rather go into the mid week holiday half full than half empty, and they gave us reasons to be thankful in OKC. Will take it.


*** but there's gotta be a move soon by Leon, either bench or personnel, because right now there's no hint at F.O. strategy, just one big half full half empty seemingly directionless mess.

Word.

More Or Less On Perceptions Of A Mess, Which Is Preferrable, Says Here, To An AllOut ClusterFuck
Title: Something For Everyone
Post by: chipstern on November 22, 2022, 01:48:47 PM
Elephant

I agree that the response to OKC was important. 

We caught a break when that seven foot beanpole ALEKSEJ POKUSEVSKI, with his three point range, was unavailable, but then, we were without Reddish and Rose, so...

As for Thibs, well Thibs is Thibs. 

Still, while accounting for the Knicks treating Mitchell's knee gingerly, while Thibs has said a two man rotation is likely at center, Jericho Sims is making his presence felt.  As is Thibs' willingness to pair Randle-Toppin together, as C-PF, or was I hallucinating, for a brief spell, with Sims-Randle-Toppin. 

So, progress of a sort, as is the ascension of Reddish AND Grimes. 

Not serving youth? 

Well, let me see. 

Thibs has been nurturing both Quickley AND Reddish AND NOW Grimes, dropping vet Fournier out of the rotation.  Which minimally, should inspire Facil to concoct some more trades. 

IQ has become a noticably better facilitator, has been rebounding and defending much better, and is starting to dial in his three. 

Addressing the rotations some weeks ago, Thibs pointed out how, no, some people who deserve minutes, have to wait their turn, mentioning McBride specifically.  We know from Westchster that McBride can score and hit the three, though he has yet to find consistency on the big time level, BUT GodDamnnnnnnnnnnnn, does he ever compete on the defensive end.  Anticipating, even with a few days off before our next game on Friday, that the Knicks are going to be cautious with Rose's big toe, we should see more of Deuce.  Likewise, caution with Reddish's groin, another tweaky bad boy, not unlike Grimes' plantar fascitis. 

So IQ, Toppin, Grimes, Reddish, Sims. 

How is that NOT serving youth? 

As for Julius, we--INCLUDING ME--are going to inevitably micro-analyze his every move and decision, and while I might yell at the TV Screen myself--though not with the feral frothing of LesterDawg--there is a reason why he gets more rotational minutes than Obi, and it is not that Thibs is a dick, but that Randle is a better player than Obi.  Period.  And I LOVES ME some Obi, even though he has gone through a relatively inept stage these past few games.  Which, like RJ's struggles, might be laid at the footstep of flu-like symptoms ripping through the entire roster. 

RJ leaking oil?  Randle not as good as Toppin?  Sims ahead of Mitchell and Isiah? 

Clearly Thibs does not share this point of view, and while we are heaping one game praise on our big three of Brunson-Randle-RJ for bounceback games, I think Thibs gets some credit for the team scheme inresponding to a tough young team on the rise [scary to think where they will be when they've worked Holmgren into the rotation, given his skillset as a facilatator and shot blocker, let alone long range sniper, with a an Alexander-Giddey backcourt and all them damn first rounders they be sitting on]. 

The portrayal of a hidebound Thibs?  Factoring in the exigency of injuries...

Who'd have imagined both Reddish AND Grimes swallowing up all of Fournier's minutes, and leaving him as the odd man out rotationally, though I suspect we will see him in due course. 

And of course, what Knicks forum would be complete without writing off both Julius AND RJ. 

YES, issues of consistency and decision making abound, as do turnovers. 

But the notion that RJ & JR are to be written off, or that Thibs is on his way out the door. 

Well...the rejoinder HEH springs to mind.

We are a work in progress, to be sure, and making the playin, let alone the playoffs, is not a given. 

But we are evolving.  Even Thibs, hard as that might be to accept, and our Puppies are evolving under his tutelage.  Overly reliant on the starters, such as RJ?  Overly married to certain offensive schemes?  Julius our own Dr. Jekyll-Mister Hyde. 

Absolutely. 

(https://media.giphy.com/media/3o7buhm1O1bOJV4ZWM/giphy.gif)

But writing off a brutal road trip where we went 3-2, and come back home at 9-9, 4-3 at home and 5-6 on the road, as a Nothing Burger?
Title: Nothing Burgers--The Eastern Standings Approaching The Quarter Pole
Post by: chipstern on November 22, 2022, 02:22:50 PM
At 1-Through-6

Celtics
Bucks
Cavaliers
Pacers
Wizards
Hawks

At 7-Through-10

Raptors
Knicks
76ers
Nets

Back Of The Bus

Bulls
Heat
Magic
Hornets
Pistons
Title: Caveat
Post by: chipstern on November 22, 2022, 02:51:34 PM
Admittedly our record is...open to scrutiny. 

To put it bluntly. 

Our wins have come against second tier and bottom feeders, Philly without Embid...

I believe Utah and Denver have winning records, least ways at home. 

So while not the irredeemable Leon Rose Hot Mess Lester deplores, I wouldn't pencil us in for the playoffs quite yet. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 22, 2022, 03:02:24 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 22, 2022, 01:48:47 PM

...there is a reason why he gets more rotational minutes than Obi, and it is not that Thibs is a dick, but that Randle is a better player than Obi.  Period.  And I LOVES ME some Obi, even though he has gone through a relatively inept stage these past few games. 


Thought there was no question that Randle is currently a better ballplayer than Obi. Question is whether Obi can become a much better player if given a larger role and (cough) better coaching.

And it's unclear if that will happen on the Knicks.

Quote from: chipstern on November 22, 2022, 01:48:47 PM
But we are evolving.  Even Thibs, hard as that might be to accept, and our Puppies are evolving under his tutelage. 

These pups you're talking about are good. What is the evidence that they're improving better and/or faster under Thibs than some other NBA coach?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 22, 2022, 03:03:55 PM
Quote from: elephant on November 22, 2022, 03:02:24 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 22, 2022, 01:48:47 PM

...there is a reason why he gets more rotational minutes than Obi, and it is not that Thibs is a dick, but that Randle is a better player than Obi.  Period.  And I LOVES ME some Obi, even though he has gone through a relatively inept stage these past few games. 

Thought there was no question that Randle is currently a better ball player than Obi. Question is whether Obi can become a much better play if given a larger role and (cough) better coaching.

And it's unclear if that will happen on the Knicks.

Quote from: chipstern on November 22, 2022, 01:48:47 PM
But we are evolving.  Even Thibs, hard as that might be to accept, and our Puppies are evolving under his tutelage. 

These pups you're talking about are good. What is the evidence that they're improving better and/or faster under Thibs than some other NBA coach?

What is the evidence that they are NOT? 

Sims [#58 draft pick]
McBride & Robinson[#36 picks]
Grimes & Quickley [#25 picks]
Reddish [#10 pick]
Toppin [#8 pick]
Barrett [#3 pick]

Seriously.  If it is your assertion that none of these players have advanced under Thibs?

And who exactly is the Magician who would further advance these Puppies/Knicks than Thibs.  Mike Miller?  Evangelical Mark Jackson?  Go ahead.  I'm all ears. 

Tell you one player who has made a significant uptick playing under Thibs. 

JALEN BRUNSON

Assists, Steals, FT shooting UP.

Three point shooting, down.

Averaging 20.8 ppg-3.8 reb-6.7 assists. 
Title: Re: Nothing Burgers--The Eastern Standings Approaching The Quarter Pole
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 22, 2022, 03:46:01 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 22, 2022, 02:22:50 PM
At 1-Through-6

Celtics
Bucks
Cavaliers
Pacers
Wizards
Hawks

At 7-Through-10

Raptors
Knicks
76ers
Nets

Back Of The Bus

Bulls
Heat
Magic
Hornets
Pistons

Shouldn't last
Title: Standings
Post by: chipstern on November 22, 2022, 05:19:33 PM
Nope
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 22, 2022, 09:58:43 PM
That WOULD be a cool 7-10 play in.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 22, 2022, 11:41:16 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 22, 2022, 09:58:43 PM
That WOULD be a cool 7-10 play in.

Long way to go.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 23, 2022, 10:33:49 AM
I'm guessing the Pacers and the Wiz will fall.

The latter needs a healthy Porzingis all season long. Will that really happen?

I wouldn't put any wagers on it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 23, 2022, 11:08:34 AM
Quote from: elephant on November 23, 2022, 10:33:49 AM
I'm guessing the Pacers and the Wiz will fall.

The latter needs a healthy Porzingis all season long. Will that really happen?

I wouldn't put any wagers on it.

Wizards have talent in Porzingis and Beal and Kuzma, and some pups with upside in Avdija, Kispert, Gafford and Hachimura.  Health is certainly an issue with KP and BB.  Not sure why they let Harrell and Pope walk after purloining them from the Lakers.  They appear to have whiffed on Number One Pick Johnny Davis.

I wouldn't write off the Pacers quite yet.  Halibuurton is a stud, averaging roughly 21-4-11 a night.  And their rookie Mathurin is a motherfucker, my rookie of the year at this point, along with Ivey and Banchero.  A work in progress, but Haliburton & Mathurin are going to be a force for the next decade, on the order of Alexander & Giddey.  Love Obi, and Jalen is the man, but Leon blew it big time passing on Haliburton.     
Title: Jerkoffs Of The World Unite--Trader Vic Lunacy
Post by: chipstern on November 23, 2022, 01:34:35 PM
Right behind the peanut gallery bleatings of FIRE TOM THIBODEAU, there is a new wave of conjecture-phantasy island driven Trader Vic Lunacy out in the mainstream press and blogosphere. 

Anyone noticed all of this speculative horseshit about the Knicks entertaining offers for IQ?

I mean, seriously.  Get a fucking life.

We were hesitant to proffer him in a Donovan deal but we're going to offload him for a #1, as if we didn't have enough draft picks, and few enough roster spots? 

There is no reason to think IQ cannnot evolve into as effective a player as his fellow Kentucky homie Tyrese Maxey, with whom he shares certain physical and stylistic attributes.   

Seriously.  IQ has significantly upped his defense and rebounding; is improving as a facilitator; his decision making has improved, forcing the issue less.  And of late he is dialing in his three.  So now, in anticipation of an extension coming down the road, let's trade him?

A FUCKING Circle Jerk Of Smell Their Own Farts And Declare Them French Perfume MORONS. 

I think it is far more likely the reason Fournier is buried on the pine is because the Knicks want to keep him oven fresh for a trade come December 15. 

Someone restrain Facil, who I am sure is already plotting Fournier for Josh Richardson or Fournier for Patrick Beverley, both commendable players, with expiring deals, but which would not serve to relieve our backcourt glut. 

I am not sure who, if anyone, has salary cap space sufficient to absorb Fournier into their roster. 

Lakers would love him, but have nothing to offer us.  A Westbrook scenario is ridiculous. 

Would Miami think of a straigh up deal for Duncan Robinson, to get out from under his big contract.  Would we want him and said contract, through 2025-26, when all of his stats, particulary the treys, are trending downwards?  And he would be just as redundant as Fournier is behind RJ, Reddish, Grimes and IQ? 

NO.

So no Facil Genius Trades in the offing. 

Still, teams such as San Antonio and Indiana have cap space. 

And based on events of the past two offseason, we apparently still enjoy congenial trading partner relations with the likes of Charlotte and OKC and Detroit. 

What would work best for the Knicks, would be to attach some draft capital, a couple of #2 picks and one of our protected future #1 picks to Fournier in a Kemba Walker-styled, please, take this motherfucker off of our hands kind of deal.  Perhaps some kind of three-four team doozy were Fournier gets re-routed to a team that could use him, like the Lakers or Clippers. 

Those protected #1 picks are ideal for such horse trading.  We don't really need more wings coming back to muddy the water.  We need to find Evan a happy home, and open up playing time for Cam, Quentin and IQ. 
Title: Now There's A Thought
Post by: chipstern on November 23, 2022, 03:58:21 PM
Hey, maybe the Knicks can trade Fournier for Alec Burks?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 23, 2022, 04:07:10 PM
Detroit would have to throw in Nerlens!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 23, 2022, 06:11:39 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on November 23, 2022, 04:07:10 PM
Detroit would have to throw in Nerlens!

Actually it's a moot point.

Having already traded them.

Cannot trade for them one way or another until next season. 

Evan Fournier [NYK]
Josh Richardson [SAS]

Plus Let's Say [TWO] #2 picks + One Protected #1. 

Worth keeping.  More rounded game than Evan. 

Still, we'd be trading for him to write off his expiring contract next summer. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 23, 2022, 09:10:26 PM
If the Spurs are really tanking, they would do it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 23, 2022, 09:20:09 PM
In way too early draft stuff, I like Watson on the Zags.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 24, 2022, 02:53:29 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 23, 2022, 09:10:26 PM
If the Spurs are really tanking, they would do it.

Greg Popovich is NOT a TANKER.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 25, 2022, 10:11:25 PM
Jericho
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 25, 2022, 11:01:22 PM
Ouch. Would have liked to win that one. We are getting a little predictable offensively.
Title: Predictable
Post by: carlos123 on November 25, 2022, 11:56:56 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 25, 2022, 11:01:22 PM
Ouch. Would have liked to win that one. We are getting a little predictable offensively..

. and defensively.
Title: This post embargoed until Dec 22
Post by: lesterluv on November 26, 2022, 10:31:26 AM
44 Free F'ing Minutes

Let's go to the per 36
rebounds. 9th on the team
steals      14th...lmfao, he makes Fournier look like Tony MfN Allen
blocks      12th
FT %       10th
3 pt %     9th
2 pt %      10th
ast            7th


What is this cat supposed to be good at? Remind me again....really, anything?


Title: My account was hacked, the above post never happened
Post by: lesterluv on November 26, 2022, 10:33:18 AM
the reffing last night may have been the worst I've seen all year....horrible stuff
Title: Re: My account was hacked, the above post never happened
Post by: chipstern on November 26, 2022, 11:41:43 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on November 26, 2022, 10:33:18 AM
the reffing last night may have been the worst I've seen all year....horrible stuff

Truly awful.

And RJ was utterly inefficient.

So many shots

Is forcing the action

Not letting the game come to him

How many shots?

19

22?
Title: Re: My account was hacked, the above post never happened
Post by: chipstern on November 26, 2022, 11:42:51 AM
Quote from: chipstern on November 26, 2022, 11:41:43 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on November 26, 2022, 10:33:18 AM
the reffing last night may have been the worst I've seen all year....horrible stuff

Truly awful.

And RJ was utterly inefficient.

So many shots

Is forcing the action

Not letting the game come to him

How many shots?

19

22?

Maybe Cam would've gotten some of those minutes
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 26, 2022, 02:19:56 PM
I am ready for a little lineup shift once Cam gets back. I think he and Rose were questionable last night.

Mitch Sims
Randle Obi
Cam RJ
Grimes IQ
Brunson McBride

If anyone breaks down, you have a worse athlete but a good shooter and smart player to step up in Hartenstein, Fournier, Svi, Archi, and Rose.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 26, 2022, 03:02:15 PM
The next few games will be a big test of team composure. Do we find a way to adjust to unbalanced  reffing or do we fixate on it, lose focus of the game plan, and get waxxed?

I am rooting for composure but not holding my breath.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 27, 2022, 06:29:46 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 26, 2022, 02:19:56 PM
I am ready for a little lineup shift once Cam gets back. I think he and Rose were questionable last night.

Mitch Sims
Randle Obi
Cam RJ
Grimes IQ
Brunson McBride

If anyone breaks down, you have a worse athlete but a good shooter and smart player to step up in Hartenstein, Fournier, Svi, Archi, and Rose.

I'd like to see RJ in the second unit too. Never thought he was a great fit with Randle.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 27, 2022, 09:05:14 PM
Would be a magnificent lineup, been wanting RJ off the bench for a year, but we'll never see it 'til both Thibs & Rose are fired, bench our golden boy, lol...never. That said..

best RJ game in a LONG time
best Knick game in a LONG time

almost magnificent, Thibs gets major demerits at the end on the offensive end for failing to include a single pass or screen or anything whatsoever, in either of our final two out-of-timeout plays..

JEEZ WHAT COULD BE MORE OBVIOUS THAN TWO ALL BY HIMSELF BRUNSON PLAYS

"just go win the game please my brain hurts"

...and at the defensive end for failing to get Grimes back in there for Morant-time, WTF, did he watch the first half? Clearly didn't want to pull Reddish who was playing great, so he would have had to pull, you know, golden boy....not gonna happen lol..so we get to lose some more.

Still good stuff. I enjoyed!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 27, 2022, 09:06:16 PM
So...how we doing with our new game closer?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 27, 2022, 09:16:56 PM
he failed, twice, but not blaming him, pretty f'ing great game otherwise.

Where the F was Derrick Rose tho....
What the F is going on with Derrick Rose?
Is he cooked? Does he turn into a pumpkin after 12 minutes of play? WTF is the story.
If not, I'd rather have had him on the floor at the end, coming in cold, than anybody not named Brunson.

How come nobody is even asking that question?

**** Totally OT, sad that Bo isn't alive to see this day: https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/26/china/china-protests-xinjiang-fire-shanghai-intl-hnk/index.html  (https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/26/china/china-protests-xinjiang-fire-shanghai-intl-hnk/index.html)
Title: Waiting for December
Post by: carlos123 on November 27, 2022, 11:33:17 PM
Quote from: Les 🐶 on November 27, 2022, 09:05:14 PM
Thibs gets major demerits at the end on the offensive end for failing to include a single pass or screen or anything whatsoever, in either of our final two out-of-timeout plays..

JEEZ WHAT COULD BE MORE OBVIOUS THAN TWO ALL BY HIMSELF BRUNSON PLAYS

"just go win the game please my brain hurts"

...and at the defensive end for failing to get Grimes back in there for Morant-time, WTF, did he watch the first half?

Spot on, doggie 🐶

Me? Just waiting for December so I can go back to calling for Thibs head.
Title: Re: Waiting for December
Post by: lesterluv on November 28, 2022, 10:34:01 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on November 27, 2022, 11:33:17 PM


Me? Just waiting for December so I can go back to calling for Thibs head.

Ah you are on an embargo too...

For the most part honestly, thought it was a very well played/coached game.
Impressed how Barrett, for once, did not try to force the issue inside (would have been absolutely suicidal with Adams and Jaren Jackson in the lane, and Dillon Brooks lurking around). He made some nice plays in addition to picking and choosing and shooting efficiently

But have to have your best defensive players out there against Morant in crunch-time , the Grimes/Mitch combo had been masterful earlier, and if your own crunch-time offense devolves to "go get it Jalen" it doesn't matter too much who the other guys are from an offensive perspective.

**** Also, think I would have rather seen Jericho than Hartenstein when Mitch was out..but good game, I do not feel sick. Want more.
Title: Re: Waiting for December
Post by: chipstern on November 28, 2022, 12:53:27 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on November 28, 2022, 10:34:01 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on November 27, 2022, 11:33:17 PM


Me? Just waiting for December so I can go back to calling for Thibs head.

Ah you are on an embargo too...

For the most part honestly, thought it was a very well played/coached game.
Impressed how Barrett, for once, did not try to force the issue inside (would have been absolutely suicidal with Adams and Jaren Jackson in the lane, and Dillon Brooks lurking around). He made some nice plays in addition to picking and choosing and shooting efficiently

But have to have your best defensive players out there against Morant in crunch-time , the Grimes/Mitch combo had been masterful earlier, and if your own crunch-time offense devolves to "go get it Jalen" it doesn't matter too much who the other guys are from an offensive perspective.

**** Also, think I would have rather seen Jericho than Hartenstein when Mitch was out..but good game, I do not feel sick. Want more.

Word
Title: Stats
Post by: chipstern on November 28, 2022, 01:35:50 PM
Brunson & RJ played strong games. 

Worth noting, however that they totalled 37 shots between them. 

Made 17. From three, 5-11, and 13-14 FTs. 

Not too shabby. 

STILL...

Randle, Robinson, Grimes and Reddish took 29 shots between them, Randle [14-11-9] all of nine, including [SIGH] five threes, making 16. 

Why does this NOT SEEM LIKE AN IDEAL BREAKDOWN? 

Dear THIBS

I HATE All Of Those FUCKING THREE POINTERS

PS: TT's much vaunted defense is missing in action.  WAZAP with that? 

PPS: Dear Kiid, as per Jalen Brunson?  Go FUCK yourself. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 28, 2022, 02:57:24 PM
Hopefully we are getting to a place where Grimes and Reddish both play more and play more together.

IQ getting hurt did not help, as he both takes and creates shots. If he has to step back, I hope to see Deuce get some run.

Grimes and Deuce are shooting around .640 from inside the arc and have a 3 to 1 and 8 to 1 assist to TO ratios. Maybe that is where some more of our looks should be going.
Title: Re: Kemba
Post by: facilitatorn on November 28, 2022, 02:58:15 PM
Mr. Walker lands a job in Dallas.

Kemba is a Mav.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 28, 2022, 03:27:52 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 28, 2022, 02:57:24 PM
Hopefully we are getting to a place where Grimes and Reddish both play more and play more together.

IQ getting hurt did not help, as he both takes and creates shots. If he has to step back, I hope to see Deuce get some run.

Grimes and Deuce are shooting around .640 from inside the arc and have a 3 to 1 and 8 to 1 assist to TO ratios. Maybe that is where some more of our looks should be going.

Thibs' offense seems to mainly consist of running clearouts for RJ and Jalen, while everyone else stands around waiting to launch "AN OPEN THREE." 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 28, 2022, 05:01:12 PM
Given that we're dead last in 3-point percentage, you've got a point.

But put another way, if we were just shooting it a bit better, a couple of these losses would have been wins.

And it's not just about the shooting percentage. It's when we make them. Could be my imagination, but it feels like our opponents make "clutch" 3's at a much higher clip than we do.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 28, 2022, 05:04:35 PM
Anyhow, I'm in positive pussy mode.

Brunson is fabulous. Reddish is surprising and delighting. Grimes and IQ seem to be reemerging. We're getting awfully competitive. Even some signs that the defense is getting stronger.

Think we're coming along.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 28, 2022, 05:25:32 PM
Quote from: elephant on November 28, 2022, 05:04:35 PM
Anyhow, I'm in positive pussy mode.

Brunson is fabulous. Reddish is surprising and delighting. Grimes and IQ seem to be reemerging. We're getting awfully competitive. Even some signs that the defense is getting stronger.

Think we're coming along.

Sure...PP.   

Save the defense has a ways to go. 

And we need to spread the looks around better.

RJ & Jalen played well, but it's not like other teams don't know where the ball is going. 

Cam & Quentin need more looks, for starters. 

And Thibs needs to find more opportunities for Julius to attack the rack.  Every time he makes one three, it encourages him to launch four more.  Not his area of strength. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 28, 2022, 06:16:11 PM
Grimes with a healthy 7.3 PER.  Not sure what you all are seeing.

Is he a benefit to play 25 minutes if he gets his shooting up to 40/30/75?

Knicks PER - SVI on top

1   Svi Mykhailiuk   25   5   13   27.2   1.157   1.000   1.000   0.0   24.5   12.1   0.0   0.0   0.0   18.8   17.1      0.0   0.0   0.0   .123      12.1   1.5   13.5   0.1
2   Jalen Brunson   26   20   663   21.9   .596   .274   .343   1.4   10.1   5.7   32.3   1.6   0.4   8.5   25.1      2.2   0.3   2.5   .181      4.0   -0.3   3.8   1.0
3   Jericho Sims   24   14   202   19.3   .755   .000   .263   16.5   18.4   17.4   4.1   1.2   6.8   12.4   10.0      0.6   0.2   0.9   .202      0.0   0.7   0.7   0.1
4   Mitchell Robinson   24   12   259   19.0   .697   .000   .500   14.8   14.3   14.6   4.9   0.9   9.6   9.0   10.8      0.7   0.3   1.0   .186      0.1   1.4   1.5   0.2
5   Julius Randle   28   20   661   17.9   .584   .406   .413   7.1   20.7   13.8   15.4   1.2   0.6   14.1   25.9      0.9   0.5   1.4   .104      1.8   -1.0   0.8   0.5
6   Isaiah Hartenstein   24   20   450   15.1   .586   .175   .194   13.9   19.3   16.6   4.8   1.7   4.5   13.9   12.0      0.7   0.5   1.2   .127      -1.3   0.1   -1.2   0.1
7   Immanuel Quickley   23   20   453   14.0   .520   .494   .281   2.5   18.3   10.3   19.6   2.5   0.6   12.2   18.8      0.3   0.5   0.8   .084      -1.0   1.0   0.0   0.2
8   Derrick Rose   34   18   236   13.9   .507   .388   .086   3.1   10.8   6.9   23.4   1.0   1.9   11.7   24.1      0.0   0.1   0.2   .032      0.7   -1.5   -0.8   0.1
9   Obi Toppin   24   20   354   13.1   .543   .551   .075   4.1   18.6   11.3   8.8   1.2   1.3   10.1   19.9      0.1   0.3   0.4   .058      0.0   -1.1   -1.1   0.1
10   Cam Reddish   23   17   397   12.0   .577   .408   .232   1.8   6.1   4.0   6.4   1.8   1.9   7.4   15.6      0.4   0.2   0.6   .078      -1.3   -0.1   -1.4   0.1
11   RJ Barrett   22   20   695   11.3   .497   .340   .304   2.8   13.7   8.2   13.2   0.7   0.3   11.0   25.1      -0.3   0.3   0.0   .002      -1.8   -2.5   -4.3   -0.4
12   Miles McBride   22   9   54   7.6   .414   .450   .200   0.0   3.9   1.9   18.3   2.7   0.0   4.4   17.6      0.0   0.0   0.0   -0.007      -5.6   0.3   -5.3   0.0
13   Quentin Grimes   22   10   164   7.3   .480   .605   .093   2.5   10.4   6.4   16.2   0.9   1.7   13.5   13.2      0.0   0.1   0.1   .023      -3.4   -0.7   -4.1   -0.1
14   Evan Fournier   30   13   260   6.8   .474   .633   .122   0.8   10.2   5.5   11.5   1.7   1.1   12.9   17.4      -0.2   0.2   -0.1   -0.010      -3.7   -0.3   -4.0   -0.1
15   Ryan Arcidiacono   28   5   14   1.8   .000   .667   .000   0.0   15.2   7.5   8.4   6.8   0.0   0.0   8.9      -0.1   0.0   0.0   -0.084      -11.5   6.1   -5.4   0.0
16   Trevor Keels   19   1   1   -26.0   .000   1.000   .000   0.0   100.0   52.5   0.0   0.0   0.0   0.0   41.7      0.0   0.0   0.0   -0.811      -36.1   -8.6   -44.7   0.0
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 28, 2022, 06:17:53 PM
Cam & Quentin need more looks, for starters.

And Thibs needs to find more opportunities for Julius to attack the rack.  Every time he makes one three, it encourages him to launch four more.  Not his area of strength.




- we got the guy we wanted/needed.  But is Brunson a bit of a ball hog?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 28, 2022, 06:27:58 PM
Our PG is by at least decent and serviceable as a starter. All our Bigs are scratch or better. We have three young wings who have to grow into their roles.

Hard to say exactly what gets a player the trust of this coaching staff and head coach.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 28, 2022, 06:53:04 PM
Quote from: elephant on November 27, 2022, 06:29:46 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 26, 2022, 02:19:56 PM
I am ready for a little lineup shift once Cam gets back. I think he and Rose were questionable last night.

Mitch Sims
Randle Obi
Cam RJ
Grimes IQ
Brunson McBride

If anyone breaks down, you have a worse athlete but a good shooter and smart player to step up in Hartenstein, Fournier, Svi, Archi, and Rose.

I'd like to see RJ in the second unit too. Never thought he was a great fit with Randle.

Can we do this, given his new salary?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 28, 2022, 09:20:28 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 28, 2022, 06:17:53 PM

- we got the guy we wanted/needed.  But is Brunson a bit of a ball hog?

Naw.

He's just good. Unafraid of the moment.

But the lack of ball movement towards the end of the game has long been a Knicks problem. Needs fixing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 28, 2022, 09:22:05 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 28, 2022, 06:53:04 PM
Quote from: elephant on November 27, 2022, 06:29:46 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 26, 2022, 02:19:56 PM
I am ready for a little lineup shift once Cam gets back. I think he and Rose were questionable last night.

Mitch Sims
Randle Obi
Cam RJ
Grimes IQ
Brunson McBride

If anyone breaks down, you have a worse athlete but a good shooter and smart player to step up in Hartenstein, Fournier, Svi, Archi, and Rose.

I'd like to see RJ in the second unit too. Never thought he was a great fit with Randle.

Can we do this, given his new salary?

Yes.

And if he thrives there (okay, okay, maybe I'm dreaming), he'll still get good minutes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on November 29, 2022, 09:57:33 AM
Quote from: elephant on November 28, 2022, 09:20:28 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 28, 2022, 06:17:53 PM

- we got the guy we wanted/needed.  But is Brunson a bit of a ball hog?

Naw.

He's just good. Unafraid of the moment.

But the lack of ball movement towards the end of the game has long been a Knicks problem. Needs fixing.

Brunson gets his assists when he can't get up a shot.  Not by design.  Better than a guy that can't pass at all - true
Title: Guess What, Facil?
Post by: chipstern on November 29, 2022, 04:20:59 PM
Your main squeeze sleeps with the fishes.

Your secondary squeeze has been promoted. 

Feron Hunt?

Waived. 

DeQuan Jeffries?

Two Way Contract.

6'5" 230 lbs. 

Listed as SG, also as SF/PG. 

Hmmmm. 

December 15 coming.

Who might be going? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 29, 2022, 09:13:00 PM
Nice job by Thibs tonight tightening rotation.
Title: What Do You Guys See In Grimes?
Post by: chipstern on November 29, 2022, 09:29:18 PM
Duh?

🙊🙉🙈
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 30, 2022, 10:58:36 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 26, 2022, 02:19:56 PM

Mitch Sims
Randle Obi
Cam RJ
Grimes IQ
Brunson McBride


I keep coming back in my head to these 5 starters. Feels....strong, balanced. Love to see how they would actually blend together.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 30, 2022, 10:59:45 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 29, 2022, 09:13:00 PM
Nice job by Thibs tonight tightening rotation.

Sure, if we're playing Detroit every game, a tight rotation works well.

With everyone else?

Not so well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 30, 2022, 12:39:38 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on November 29, 2022, 09:57:33 AM
Quote from: elephant on November 28, 2022, 09:20:28 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 28, 2022, 06:17:53 PM

- we got the guy we wanted/needed.  But is Brunson a bit of a ball hog?

Naw.

He's just good. Unafraid of the moment.

But the lack of ball movement towards the end of the game has long been a Knicks problem. Needs fixing.

Brunson gets his assists when he can't get up a shot.  Not by design.  Better than a guy that can't pass at all - true

Yep, I don't think this can be so quickly dismissed with a naw.

We can acknowledge and be grateful for his skills, confidence, efficiency, commend his ability to get 2-3 buckets in a row to stop an opposing run, but be aware that there may be limitations.

His job is to organize the offense.

When you have a whole bunch of guys who ain't hitting their shots, or getting the right ones, in a shocking three-point drought, from long timers like Fournier to youngsters like RJ or Obi, you have to at least glance in that direction as well as the players themselves and the coach.


*** still bewildered by DRose use if healthy, maybe just a long period to get sea legs back, heartened by the 25 minute run last night, want to start seeing him toward end games
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 30, 2022, 01:11:04 PM
Quote from: elephant on November 30, 2022, 10:59:45 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on November 29, 2022, 09:13:00 PM
Nice job by Thibs tonight tightening rotation.

Sure, if we're playing Detroit every game, a tight rotation works well.

With everyone else?

Not so well.

Well no - he tightened it because we lost the big lead.  It was a horror.  You cant tell in the finals stats since starters were taken out so early.  Shame - Julius could have had 50.  Bernard gets the benefit of having played in close games when he got his 50/50.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 30, 2022, 01:14:34 PM
When you have a whole bunch of guys who ain't hitting their shots, or getting the right ones, in a shocking three-point drought, from long timers like Fournier to youngsters like RJ or Obi, you have to at least glance in that direction as well as the players themselves and the coach.


Fournier?  Who's that?

Are you telling me you have liked the drive, draw and dish game of Brunson?  I havent seen it.  And this is what you all wanted.

Me?  I am fine with a scoring point - always have been.  Optimistic.  But he has to make big shots and will his mates some.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on November 30, 2022, 10:06:02 PM
Good effort.  No closer.

RJ Barrett - with his late foul - just cost Knicks bettors tens of thousands of dollars.....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 30, 2022, 10:06:36 PM
That was as good a setup as you could want for beating the Bucks with two minutes of good basketball.

The Starters all played good minutes and held serve with their counterparts more or less. They have the benefit of having done it together for years and in elimination games. This was a good experience but it would have been a better win had we managed to pull it off.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 30, 2022, 11:59:23 PM
More than a closer, you need a play. Bucks ran a play. Grayson Allen is nobodys superstar. Our only play is: who wants to fail at being Da Man.
Title: It is official
Post by: carlos123 on December 01, 2022, 12:19:35 AM
Quote from: Les 🐶 on November 30, 2022, 11:59:23 PM
More than a closer, you need a play. Bucks ran a play. Grayson Allen is nobodys superstar. Our only play is: who wants to fail at being Da Man.

Exactly doggie 🐶

It is officially December 1st, exactly 12:20 am, so I can say it:

OFF WITH THIBS HEAD!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 01, 2022, 01:29:07 PM
I was resisting it for awhile, do appreciate some of his qualities, loved the effort last night, but yes, I am all in, lol, off with his head!

and if you are gonna dig a grave, might as well go and dig two***

***Embargo over...Leon should be spanked, disembowled, spitroasted (choose your order) for not sending RJBrickit and QuicktoUpChuck out for Donovan, lol, what? who? those two? You are joking right? Must be kidding!

twitter had me laughing today bout OBI:

"The Knicks using Obi Toppin as if he is Steve Novak sure seems like a suboptimal utilization of the most athletic players in franchise history"

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 01, 2022, 02:00:28 PM
Let Thibs lead the tank, clean up in the draft, then offer the position when it is more attractive to potential candidates.

We are not so far ahead of the dregs that we miss having the fifth or sixth worst record in the league if we stay the course. If Dallas and Washington both miss the lotto, it could be a transformational offseason for us. All our valuable players are young and locked in and we are already not winning any chip this year.

Keep Thibs, doomed to fail for stated reasons, and tank on.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 01, 2022, 02:11:49 PM
OK, sold!(I am so easily influence-able)

*** Only downside, another full season of Obi development stunting ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 01, 2022, 02:45:03 PM
Trade Randle to Phoenix for Crowder, Saric, and either Cam Johnson or Torrey Craig. We can throw in the Washington pick to sweeten it for them.
Title: I change my damn mind
Post by: lesterluv on December 01, 2022, 02:47:05 PM
Free Minutes vs No Minutes

In either his 2cnd season alone or 3rd season alone, and damn near in his 1st season alone, RJ Barrett has gotten more minutes and shots than Obi Toppin has had in his entire NBA career.

And RJ is STILL a net negative player and nobody can really tell me what his skill is.

Meanwhile, they are turning my boy Obi into a statue in the corner. The Dentist V2. Imagine if Obi got the chance to hoist 3500 bricks, turn the ball over 500 times and lose us 150 games without penalty, lol...bet something might improve.

F what I just said, OFF with that human-manatee-looking lying about earning your minutes mf'er's head right the F now!


*** we can still lose plenty games, trade Jules, whatever...but in a new and fresh way

Closer, who wanted a f'n closer? Donovan Mitchell 2cnd most Clutch FG's in the league this season, even with Luka Doncic at 17, behind Fox who has 20...sigh, spit roast? Is that even harsh enough?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 01, 2022, 05:23:01 PM
Obi's shot total slightly up this year. Not quite 1 every 2 minutes.  Makes are way down.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 01, 2022, 05:26:05 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on November 30, 2022, 11:59:23 PM
More than a closer, you need a play. Bucks ran a play. Grayson Allen is nobodys superstar. Our only play is: who wants to fail at being Da Man.

Allen was in a 2 for 1 spot.  Wasnt really a design.
Though my man RUSS was criticized for doing the same in a tie game late.

I guess if Grayson clanks it he is an idiot as well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 01, 2022, 06:57:02 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on December 01, 2022, 05:23:01 PM
Obi's shot total slightly up this year. Not quite 1 every 2 minutes.  Makes are way down.

Last year about a third of his shots were 3's.
This year almost two thirds of his shots are 3's.
His 3 point percentage is up. His 2 point percentage is down. Probably because he hardly ever takes them.
With the current trajectory, he will hit Novak like levels of specialization by early February.
Title: Let's See [Did I Miss Anything]
Post by: chipstern on December 03, 2022, 01:31:00 PM
Fire Thibs

Trade Randle

RJ Sucks

🙈🙉🙊
Title: Onwards
Post by: chipstern on December 03, 2022, 01:49:47 PM
(https://media.istockphoto.com/id/173017771/photo/jesus-slam-dunking-a-basketball.jpg?s=612x612&w=0&k=20&c=GeN4i5wI0SMkezwpCzgVQ61o4x9BEkItnwlOnOAL46Q=)
Title: PS
Post by: chipstern on December 03, 2022, 02:11:09 PM
(https://media.tenor.com/vDZEXdBcq5AAAAAC/daffy-duck-agony.gif)

Y IKE S

(https://gifimage.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/hand-face-gif-4.gif)
Title: Worser AND Worser
Post by: chipstern on December 03, 2022, 02:29:04 PM
A 45 point turnaround. 

My GOD. 

It's like an episode of OZ. 

(https://images2.minutemediacdn.com/image/upload/c_fill,w_720,ar_16:9,f_auto,q_auto,g_auto/shape/cover/sport/502553-hbo-c88621f939edd6b86b4b2e320c20ee84.jpg)

"I heard that Adabysi had a bigger dick than me.  YOU be the judge." 

Title: Re: Let's See [Did I Miss Anything]
Post by: carlos123 on December 03, 2022, 03:13:31 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 03, 2022, 01:31:00 PM
Fire Thibs

Trade Randle

RJ Sucks

🙈🙉🙊

Soooooo

What do YOU propose?
Title: Re: Let's See [Did I Miss Anything]
Post by: chipstern on December 03, 2022, 04:28:55 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 03, 2022, 03:13:31 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 03, 2022, 01:31:00 PM
Fire Thibs

Trade Randle

RJ Sucks

🙈🙉🙊

Soooooo

What do YOU propose?

(https://media.tenor.com/tXGmcg4QpYwAAAAC/let-us.gif)

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/RegalUnsteadyJuliabutterfly-max-1mb.gif)
Title: Let us pray
Post by: carlos123 on December 03, 2022, 05:21:17 PM
Indeed!
Sounds like the most rational answer right now.
I certainly do not think dumping Randle or RJ would help in the slightest.

Now, relieving Thibs of his ugly head would be a big step in the right direction.
Title: New Coach Press Conference
Post by: carlos123 on December 03, 2022, 05:50:48 PM
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AL9nZEU2bPss6HBbqVkqovcHUMnCheUd7f0k7ZQ1jc6UlQO6-XcVh9gopnhrCANTg-vFP6sPvG1ZzQuOt5T_vkg06emgnpMakbvAKHmkV9rVb8ab5VYHvLIkzIbqR8lhoZrvJg6LBIwjI9K4WyVyXSuwX82N=w1141-h647-no?authuser=0)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 03, 2022, 07:24:36 PM
This was a really bad defeat.

Had no problem with the loss in Milwaukee. I thought improvements were obvious, and that if we can stay around 500 by the All Star Game, we can make a move in the second half. Especially the way Mitch, Grimes and Reddish were coming along.

But damn, these defensive lapses are incredible.

You can't blame Fournier for this shit!

Embarrassing to play this way on your home floor.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 04, 2022, 12:13:03 PM
What bothered me most.

2cnd Quarter, before the 3rd Quarter meltdown. We have the big lead, Dallas starts to make a run, instead of some smart sets to quell it we get the lazy stuff.  A terrible Julius stepback three.
A "let me pretend I am Steph" 30-footer from Quick. A couple more, I forget. Dallas got out in transition each time. The stupid stuff guaranteed to help another team come back. You really feel like Thibs should have harnessed this $%ish by now.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 04, 2022, 12:41:08 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on December 04, 2022, 12:13:03 PM
What bothered me most.

2cnd Quarter, before the 3rd Quarter meltdown. We have the big lead, Dallas starts to make a run, instead of some smart sets to quell it we get the lazy stuff.  A terrible Julius stepback three.
A "let me pretend I am Steph" 30-footer from Quick. A couple more, I forget. Dallas got out in transition each time. The stupid stuff guaranteed to help another team come back. You really feel like Thibs should have harnessed this $%ish by now.

Word
Title: Falling In Love
Post by: chipstern on December 04, 2022, 01:55:37 PM
Julius has been hitting his threes.

Good news.

But he has a tendency to fall in love with his jumper, and eschews cuts, motion, screens, quick decisions, going strong to the rack, spreading the rock around

Bad news.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 04, 2022, 07:11:51 PM
Well, we almost did a great job on the defensive end.

I'll let Lester discuss Barrett.

But there is no justification, ZERO, to have RJ on the floor more than any Knicks. It's insane and runs the risk of taking Thibs down.

In related news, and I know I've said it 500 times, but Randle and RJ are too predictable to be on the floor together for any duration.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 04, 2022, 07:20:44 PM
Is there a reason why we're not seeing Reddish tonight?

Maybe it's all part of the vaulted "tight rotation" that Kid raves about.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 04, 2022, 08:38:50 PM
Maybe it was that Cam versus the Mavs was a total disaster

No Rose either

Deuce and Grimes with the D,  and IQ getting to the hoop at will, making Garland and MItchell sweat.

A Pat Riley defensive grinder.

Praise the lord.

Trae beckons.
Title: DE-FENSE!!!
Post by: carlos123 on December 04, 2022, 08:57:40 PM
Finally!!!

In light of a tight DE-FENSE on this game, I will not do any further damage to Thibs head for  ---  THREE DAYS. Further decisions after Wednesdays game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 04, 2022, 08:58:11 PM
We kept a team under a fucking hundred for the first time all year!!!!

We kept them to fucking 81 points!

What the hell, is this the resurrection of Thibs?

(answer: probably not)

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 04, 2022, 09:20:07 PM
Quote from: elephant on December 04, 2022, 08:58:11 PM
We kept a team under a fucking hundred for the first time all year!!!!

We kept them to fucking 81 points!

What the hell, is this the resurrection of Thibs?

(answer: probably not)

🤜🎁🤛
Title: 92-81!
Post by: lesterluv on December 05, 2022, 10:43:27 AM
What a weird game, lol!
Cavs came in out-of-sync, and we kept them out-of-sync.
And the refs kept EVERYBODY out-of-sync.
Pretty much longest, most consistent defensive effort of the year.
OK! You know I like that. Deuce first sub off the bench. OK. You know I love that!
RJ plays less than 35 minutes, you know I LOVE that! Somehow 31 felt like 21, it was so joyful for me.
Sustained effort for 48, reduced stupidity, retro late 90s final points tally. Yes!

* Imagine you are Cam or anybody and you watch RJ stink for 20 straight mins, over and over and over and over and over and over, with nary a reprimand or a pull, and then you stink for 6 mins some game and know you'll get disappeared for three games or three weeks or forever.

** RJ, btw, is dead to me. More than inconsistent, I think he is really STUPID with very poor basketball awareness, which is probably incurable, a horrible waste of 107 million dollars and could care less if he has a good quarter or half or even a four game stretch. He is way more damaging than a Knox or Ntilikina because you are prohibited from benching him. Until he plays well for weeks or months at a time, he puts an impenetrable iron ceiling on our development as a team. That's that. My monthly message and I will not speak on him again until 1/1/2023.

*** I do like the little mini-oop play he's developed with Mitch, tho


*** Despite one of his few sub-par games this season, I found DM a joy to watch and my trade-that-never-happened-fury remains unabated

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 05, 2022, 02:55:45 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on December 05, 2022, 10:43:27 AM
......
Pretty much longest, most consistent defensive effort of the year.
OK! You know I like that. Deuce first sub off the bench. OK. You know I love that!
RJ plays less than 35 minutes, you know I LOVE that! Somehow 31 felt like 21, it was so joyful for me.
Sustained effort for 48, reduced stupidity, retro late 90s final points tally. Yes!

* Imagine you are Cam or anybody and you watch RJ stink for 20 straight mins, over and over and over and over and over and over, with nary a reprimand or a pull, and then you stink for 6 mins some game and know you'll get disappeared for three games or three weeks or forever.

Note that RJ played 21 minutes in the first half, more than any other Knick. It was miraculous when he finally started sitting in the second half. And I was imagining how it was for Cam to see RJ fuck up again and again, to be prohibited from playing a minute in the game.

What exactly is the message to the other players?

Doesn't matter. Not part of the rotation. Here's what Thibs said after the game:

"Part of that is probably less people in the rotation, too," Thibodeau said. "That gives you a better rhythm. So that's part of the reason why we went to nine."

He later explained that he was still figuring out who to play in his nine-man rotation during the last trip:

"The tough thing is you've got to make a decision. Who are the nine? And there's guys who are deserving to be in there," Thibodeau said. "You're trying to stretch it a little bit until there's more clarity to it and once there is and you
have more information, now you've got to make the decision. So that's what we did."

So Thibs feels that selecting his GOLDEN NINE will lead to "rhythm" and victory, as it did against Cleveland. Ignore the previous losses. Didn't have the nine. Ignore the issues with concentration, intensity, judgment. Wasn't the right nine. Ignore any perceived failures in approach, strategy, adjustments. Was just a matter of finding the golden nine.

We shall see.
Title: Re: 92-81!
Post by: carlos123 on December 05, 2022, 06:22:52 PM
Quote from: Les 🐶 on December 05, 2022, 10:43:27 AM

** RJ, btw, is dead to me.

That's that. My monthly message and I will not speak on him again until 1/1/2023.

Hey doggie 🐶 you sure you can hold that long? That is almost a full month, good luck with that!

But you can talk about Thibs and his complete inability to draw a play after a timeout, especially at the end of games.

I cant ask for his head until Wednesday, see, much easier than having to wait until 2023.
Title: Cry Me A River [The Eternal Kult Of Donovan Mitchell Penis Envy]
Post by: chipstern on December 06, 2022, 07:42:12 PM
Gee Whiz

This After A Victory

Admittedly, we caught a break, with no Jarrett Allen

Still...Cavs had that Donovan Mitchell fellow, and Darius Garland, and Evan Mobley and Kevin Love, who lit us up last time. 

No matter. 

RJ SUCKS. 

Thibs SUCKS. 

Duly Noted
Title: Re: Cry Me A River [The Eternal Kult Of Donovan Mitchell Penis Envy]
Post by: carlos123 on December 06, 2022, 09:39:38 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 06, 2022, 07:42:12 PM
Gee Whiz

This After A Victory

Admittedly, we caught a break, with no Jarrett Allen

Still...Cavs had that Donovan Mitchell fellow, and Darius Garland, and Evan Mobley and Kevin Love, who lit us up last time. 

No matter. 

RJ SUCKS. 

Thibs SUCKS. 

Duly Noted

FWIW,

I was not and am not in favor of the rape proposed by Danny boy.

Have not said a peep about RJ.

Thibs still generally sucks BIG TIME, with a good game here and there. But not asking for his head at least until tomorrow evening.
Title: Warnock
Post by: chipstern on December 06, 2022, 10:23:26 PM
MEANWHILE

With a squeaker in Georgia

Be still my heart

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 06, 2022, 10:49:19 PM
Look.

If you've got a great team, and you're winning, and you're so good that you can keep talent like Cam, Rose, and Fournier nailed to the pine, totally out of rotation, then right on!

Go with what works!

On the other hand, if you've got an 11-13 record, and have dropped 4 of the last 6, this seems nothing less than mismanagement of talent, and some folks will naturally question the coach's tenuous hold on reality.
Title: Re: Warnock
Post by: carlos123 on December 06, 2022, 10:50:24 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 06, 2022, 10:23:26 PM
MEANWHILE

With a squeaker in Georgia

Be still my heart

Difference keeps growing.

With 98% counted, it is 50.7 to 49.3

Id take it any day!!! 😁
Title: Re: Cry Me A River [The Eternal Kult Of Donovan Mitchell Penis Envy]
Post by: elephant on December 06, 2022, 10:52:24 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 06, 2022, 07:42:12 PM
Gee Whiz

This After A Victory

I loved the victory.

It was the coaches proclamation afterward of what the victory meant (he's finally found his rotation!) that seems screwy and waaaayyyy premature at best.

Truth is, you can like and respect Thibs, and still wonder if the game has passed him by.
Title: Hawks
Post by: chipstern on December 06, 2022, 10:54:15 PM
Quote from: elephant on December 06, 2022, 10:49:19 PM
Look.

If you've got a great team, and you're winning, and you're so good that you can keep talent like Cam, Rose, and Fournier nailed to the pine, totally out of rotation, then right on!

Go with what works!

On the other hand, if you've got an 11-13 record, and have dropped 4 of the last 6, this seems nothing less than mismanagement of talent, and some folks will naturally question the coach's tenuous hold on reality.

K

We have Trae and J at the Garden tomorrow. 

We shall see what the Knicks bring. 

Me?

I am on record as being a Fournier, Rose, Reddish booster. 

Grimes and McBride gave us serious defensive presence. 

IQ gave us improved D, rebounding and a more consistent offensive game...less chucking, more juking. 

The idea that Thibs elevating Quentin, Deuce and Immanuel is a symtom of madness is...

Well, Donovan and Love had our number in Cleveland.  Not so on Sunday. 

Atlanta? 

We shall see, won't we. 
Title: Re: Warnock
Post by: chipstern on December 06, 2022, 10:56:10 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 06, 2022, 10:50:24 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 06, 2022, 10:23:26 PM
MEANWHILE

With a squeaker in Georgia

Be still my heart

Difference keeps growing.

With 98% counted, it is 50.7 to 49.3

Id take it any day!!! 😁

Steve Kornacki.

The Marv Alpert of the telestrator. 

The Fulton County votes came in, and with 98% of the vote in, Warnock is up by 50,000. 

As for the nine man rotation, the votes have yet to come in...
Title: Re: Cry Me A River [The Eternal Kult Of Donovan Mitchell Penis Envy]
Post by: chipstern on December 06, 2022, 10:57:39 PM
Quote from: elephant on December 06, 2022, 10:52:24 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 06, 2022, 07:42:12 PM
Gee Whiz

This After A Victory

I loved the victory.

It was the coaches proclamation afterward of what the victory meant (he's finally found his rotation!) that seems screwy and waaaayyyy premature at best.

Truth is, you can like and respect Thibs, and still wonder if the game has passed him by.

You've got me there. 

Anyway, minimally, until next spring, we are joined at the hip.
Title: Rotation
Post by: carlos123 on December 06, 2022, 11:56:06 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 06, 2022, 10:56:10 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 06, 2022, 10:50:24 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 06, 2022, 10:23:26 PM
MEANWHILE

With a squeaker in Georgia

Be still my heart

Difference keeps growing.

With 98% counted, it is 50.7 to 49.3

Id take it any day!!! 😁

Steve Kornacki.

The Marv Alpert of the telestrator. 

The Fulton County votes came in, and with 98% of the vote in, Warnock is up by 50,000. 

As for the nine man rotation, the votes have yet to come in...

10 at least.

Chamaco prefers 8 max, maybe 7.

How about you?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 07, 2022, 02:47:42 PM
So after last year, I figured we needed to get rid of Thibs or Randle to get a winning team.

But that didn't happened. Maybe couldn't happen.

So then I figured you have to get rid of RJ or Randle, because they're not complementary players. Since a trade seemed to be impossible, I was drawn to the idea of RJ playing with the 2nd unit.

Now....now it seems we're all in on the RJ/Randle/Thibs unit! Like, forever! In fact, not only do we want to trade away Cam/Fournier/Rose for....you know, undisclosed better players, we're cool about adding IQ to the mix to get it done!

I mean, this is dismal shit. Where is the vision?
Title: Re: Rotation
Post by: chipstern on December 07, 2022, 02:48:13 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 06, 2022, 11:56:06 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 06, 2022, 10:56:10 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 06, 2022, 10:50:24 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 06, 2022, 10:23:26 PM
MEANWHILE

With a squeaker in Georgia

Be still my heart

Difference keeps growing.

With 98% counted, it is 50.7 to 49.3

Id take it any day!!! 😁

Steve Kornacki.

The Marv Alpert of the telestrator. 

The Fulton County votes came in, and with 98% of the vote in, Warnock is up by 50,000. 

As for the nine man rotation, the votes have yet to come in...

10 at least.

Chamaco prefers 8 max, maybe 7.

How about you?

I'm not married to anything. 

Defense.

Coherence. 

WINS

My priority. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 07, 2022, 02:49:55 PM
Quote from: elephant on December 07, 2022, 02:47:42 PM
So after last year, I figured we needed to get rid of Thibs or Randle to get a winning team.

But that didn't happened. Maybe couldn't happen.

So then I figured you have to get rid of RJ or Randle, because they're not complementary players. Since a trade seemed to be impossible, I was drawn to the idea of RJ playing with the 2nd unit.

Now....now it seems we're all in on the RJ/Randle/Thibs unit! Like, forever! In fact, not only do we want to trade away Cam/Fournier/Rose for....you know, undisclosed better players, we're cool about adding IQ to the mix to get it done!

I mean, this is dismal shit. Where is the vision?

Don't take such speculative balderdash to heart. 
Title: Speculation
Post by: chipstern on December 07, 2022, 03:09:05 PM
Saw the Stefan Bondy/Fred Katz item about attaching Reddish to a dump Fournier scenario.

Go figure
Title: Again...
Post by: chipstern on December 07, 2022, 03:12:58 PM
Worth noting, Brother E, that the "trades" rumored and speculated upon, and the ones that actually go down, are rarely in alignment. 
Title: Re: Again...
Post by: elephant on December 07, 2022, 03:32:37 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 07, 2022, 03:12:58 PM
Worth noting, Brother E, that the "trades" rumored and speculated upon, and the ones that actually go down, are rarely in alignment.

Useful reminder to get me down off the ledge.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 07, 2022, 03:39:10 PM
Where there's smoke, tho.

Seems pretty likely we are about to embark on the Rose/Thibs save-our-skins endgame voyage.

The clusterF*^K will no doubt end the worst way possible. Quadrupling down on the failed RJ/Randle project.

If I had my druthers, all four would go.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 07, 2022, 04:44:08 PM
Hey, you know how we started to play Cam more, but he just looked pathetic and it was obvious he's a loser?

Me neither.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 07, 2022, 04:55:15 PM
Quote from: elephant on December 07, 2022, 04:44:08 PM
Hey, you know how we started to play Cam more, but he just looked pathetic and it was obvious he's a loser?

Me neither.

Was playing prgressively better and better before he got hurt. 

So much so, nailed Fournier to the bench. 

McBride for Rose? 

Defense. 

McBride and Grimes really pressured Mitchell and Garland. 

No mean feat. 

The interest in trading IQ baffles me.  He has been improving of late. 

And the talk of offloading any combo of Rose, Reddish, Fournier and Quickley, and getting #1 picks back? 

Huh? 

We seem to be sitting on a surfeit of #1 picks. 

And we have Jokubaitis on ice in Spain. 

Curiouser and Curiouser. 

PS: I find the idea that Dolan & His People are looking askance at Rose & His People...curious. 

PPS: As per DAWG's Red Queen Approach [OFF WITH THEIR HEADS].  Get rid of Randle & RJ, Thibs & Leon.  FUCKING GENIUS.  That will engender stability and a clear path forward. 
Title: DE-FENSE!!!
Post by: carlos123 on December 07, 2022, 10:02:04 PM
Again.
And some offense to boot.
A-fucking-mazing!
Maybe Thibs was right about only needing the MAGIC NINE.
Who wouda thunk it?
Will it continue?
We shall see, wont we?
Title: Re: DE-FENSE!!!
Post by: chipstern on December 07, 2022, 10:18:24 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 07, 2022, 10:02:04 PM
Again.
And some offense to boot.
A-fucking-mazing!
Maybe Thibs was right about only needing the MAGIC NINE.
Who wouda thunk it?
Will it continue?
We shall see, wont we?

As per the forum, with his 9 man rotation, Thibs subs out McBride and IQ for Barrett and Brunson, than brings RJ back in when he subs out Julius so not on the floor at the same time.

Hawk were without Collins, Hunter and Murray, so we caught  a break ..

Still

DEFENSE

And Julius having fun.

Pucker up, Dawg
Title: Re: DE-FENSE!!!
Post by: facilitatorn on December 07, 2022, 10:34:57 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 07, 2022, 10:02:04 PM
Again.
And some offense to boot.
A-fucking-mazing!
Maybe Thibs was right about only needing the MAGIC NINE.
Who wouda thunk it?
Will it continue?
We shall see, wont we?

Do you show mercy?

Does Thibs live to coach another day?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 08, 2022, 12:40:12 AM
We are on Obi knee watch.
Title: Re: DE-FENSE!!!
Post by: carlos123 on December 08, 2022, 01:18:25 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 07, 2022, 10:34:57 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 07, 2022, 10:02:04 PM
Again.
And some offense to boot.
A-fucking-mazing!
Maybe Thibs was right about only needing the MAGIC NINE.
Who wouda thunk it?
Will it continue?
We shall see, wont we?

Do you show mercy?

Does Thibs live to coach another day?

Of course I show mercy, until at least the next game.

I am a very merciful fella.

You are still on my short list. And Randle is still King Julius!

PS. What happened to Chamaco? He has not shown up for a while. Is he in jail?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 08, 2022, 03:30:21 AM
Weird feeling to win a game, and feel like we're courting disaster.

Is the front office really so out of touch?

Maybe two years ago, there's an argument that you can build around the core of Randle and RJ. Who on planet Earth thinks like that now?

Why would you keep Cam on the bench? Why would you let him go? Who are they hoping to get who would be better?

And does the front office really not see that RJ is a nice NBA ballplayer who doesn't happen to do anything exceptionally well?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 08, 2022, 11:03:16 AM
Quote from: elephant on December 08, 2022, 03:30:21 AM
Weird feeling to win a game, and feel like we're courting disaster.

Is the front office really so out of touch?

Maybe two years ago, there's an argument that you can build around the core of Randle and RJ. Who on planet Earth thinks like that now?

Why would you keep Cam on the bench? Why would you let him go? Who are they hoping to get who would be better?

And does the front office really not see that RJ is a nice NBA ballplayer who doesn't happen to do anything exceptionally well?

Such Angst.

And this after a win....

MEANWHILE

It is  challenging to get a connection to this web site. 

As difficult as making a door dash delivery to Ashli Babbitt or serving a child support subpoena to Hershel Walker.

Where is Kiid?

For that matter.

BoD
Kam
Pharoah
Mirasja
ClipperJane
Nagel
MisterEarl
EMann
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 08, 2022, 12:06:39 PM
The unwashed unvaxxed Bo D died of covid, tragically unable to see the day his buddy Chairman Xi was forced to lift the draconian anti-covid-measures Bo denied ever existed.*

Cannot speak for any of the others.

The angst?

Got to admit, holding opponents under 90 two games in a row in the modern NBA, even opponents such as the half-Hawks, is impressive and possibly bespeaks a turn.

But fool me 10,000 times.....

Two games does not erase that which we know in our hearts.

Until I see 50 in a row, and maybe not even then, you cannot convince me that RJ + Jules + Thibs form the foundation of a promising future, so why wait to undo. And Leon? He has wasted more free minutes than Barrett. Basta ya!


*Having Grimes and Mitch as 2/5 of a starting lineup is a helluva defensive starting point, yep that's a foundation for something...now, ya add a scorer like DM to that mix, goddamn that Garden would be rocking every fn night(disallowed by embargo censor)

** sez fear-of-Zach-induced-heart attack on Bo's death certificate but the Chinese just trying to keep that .000001 covid death rate intact

*** getting into the site not my problem, modifying a post 16 times to remove all contractions and "m" dashes lest it be chopped to a haiku my personal issue

**** that "Pachulia" by RJ possibly his most effective act as a Knick
Title: Re: DE-FENSE!!!
Post by: facilitatorn on December 08, 2022, 01:11:03 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 08, 2022, 01:18:25 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 07, 2022, 10:34:57 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 07, 2022, 10:02:04 PM
Again.
And some offense to boot.
A-fucking-mazing!
Maybe Thibs was right about only needing the MAGIC NINE.
Who wouda thunk it?
Will it continue?
We shall see, wont we?

Do you show mercy?

Does Thibs live to coach another day?

Of course I show mercy, until at least the next game.

I am a very merciful fella.

You are still on my short list. And Randle is still King Julius!

PS. What happened to Chamaco? He has not shown up for a while. Is he in jail?

He is on hunger strike until the republican party is released from Russia.

He wants to see the immoral and insolvent set free.
Title: Obi
Post by: chipstern on December 08, 2022, 05:04:59 PM
Obi has a knee injury

A non displaced fracture in his right fibula head

Will be reevaulated in two-three weeks

Cam Reddish, please pick up The Thibidian Hospitality Phone
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 08, 2022, 05:16:21 PM
Slide Isaiah to the 4.  Play Sims
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 08, 2022, 05:24:25 PM
Re:  where are they....

Saw JaqDavisone on a Facebook site.
Title: chamAAco is back in town
Post by: carlos123 on December 08, 2022, 10:17:12 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 08, 2022, 01:11:03 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 07, 2022, 10:02:04 PM

PS. What happened to Chamaco? He has not shown up for a while. Is he in jail?

He is on hunger strike until the republican party is released from Russia.

He wants to see the immoral and insolvent set free.

Quote from: chamAAcocartero8 on December 08, 2022, 05:16:21 PM
Slide Isaiah to the 4.  Play Sims

Was he in jail?
Was he on hunger strike?

Chi lo sa?
Title: Obi
Post by: chipstern on December 09, 2022, 08:34:29 AM
I should think that Jericho & Cam give us coverage behind JR at the 4-Spot

Title: Trade Scenarios
Post by: chipstern on December 09, 2022, 08:38:12 AM
Most of the trade scenarios I've seen involving Evan Fournier, Derrick Rose and Cam Reddish are a load of crap. 

Basically exchanging one set of players nailed to the pine for another. 

Oh, that's right, expiring contracts. 

Like I said...CRAP. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 09, 2022, 03:01:07 PM
I'm trying to see Obi's injury as some kind of FORTUNATE FALL, as Johnny Milton would call it.

Sure there was all that corruption and disobedience with Adam and Eve and the snake in Eden, but it led to a divine future for all humanoids.

In the same way, maybe Obi's injury will lead to Cam escaping Thib's gulag and giving some form of proof to the addled eyes of Thibs, Rose and all the besotted crew that he needs to be playing for the Knicks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 09, 2022, 04:23:36 PM
I think it is more likely Svi gets a go before Cam based on the current state of the tea leaves.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 09, 2022, 04:31:08 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 09, 2022, 04:23:36 PM
I think it is more likely Svi gets a go before Cam based on the current state of the tea leaves.

Uh, Svi is a lights out shooter, but I think for Thibs the tea leaves spell...DEFENSE. 

Cam is a SF-SG-PF, and has the length and the wingspan to cover some PF, and other than a recent nine minutes of futility, pre-injury he was playing good defense. 

Svi is a shooting guard and small forward. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 09, 2022, 09:13:35 PM
It's been great watching Hartenstein and Sims out there. They play well together! Seems to free Hart up.

Also a blast watching McBride on defense. Just scrappy and clever.

Title: Thibs
Post by: chipstern on December 09, 2022, 09:16:50 PM
Quote from: elephant on December 09, 2022, 09:13:35 PM
It's been great watching Hartenstein and Sims out there. They play well together! Seems to free Hart up.

Also a blast watching McBride on defense. Just scrappy and clever.

Thibs rotation WORKING.

Getting the 3 point improvement we need.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 09, 2022, 09:18:02 PM
Like the Hartenstein/Sims pairing.  I kind of called that one.
Title: RJ
Post by: chipstern on December 09, 2022, 09:19:41 PM
Pucker up Dawg
🙈🙊🙉
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 09, 2022, 11:43:37 PM
It looks like we have reached the part of our seasonal development where we know what we want to do. What remains to be seen is what we do when the opposition is good and whole enough to stop us or play through us and makes us move on to doing something else or get crushed.


I am liking our four bigs, Randle Mitch Heart Sims, and our four guards, Brunson Grimes Quick Deuce.

RJ also seems to be finding space and confidence in this configuration.

Kings are next. They will be tough. It should be a fun game.
Title: Thibs Rotation
Post by: chipstern on December 10, 2022, 03:23:04 PM
Opens up time for RJ with the second unit, as per some coaches on this forum.

Fournier's minutes have gone to Grimes and IQ.

Rose's minutes to McBride and IQ.

Who was it on this forum who suggested Hartenstein and Sims for Toppin, although Thibs went with Sims at PF instead of IH.

Thibs gave everyone a shot in the first quarter of the season, but now as Alan Hahn put it last night, Coach decided NOW WE'RE GOING TO DO IT MY WAY.

Doesn't hurt that we didn't trade JR for a bag of shit, that he is playing like 2020-2021Julius; that he is dialing in his jumper, and--along with the entire team, led by RJ--is attacking the rack.

And even when his offense is MIA, Brunson was good for 11 assists last night. 

Title: Kings
Post by: chipstern on December 10, 2022, 03:27:00 PM
Are a team on the rise, with lots of tough matchups..

A REAL TEST ON SUNDAY.

PS: What, no smart as from Dawg?
Title: Re: Kings
Post by: chipstern on December 10, 2022, 03:29:45 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 10, 2022, 03:27:00 PM
Are a team on the rise, with lots of tough matchups..

A REAL TEST ON SUNDAY.

PS: What, no smart ass from Dawg?  In his bedroom with lube. Kleenex and a PornHub video of Donovan. Buy a Courtside Seat at BARCLAYS.
Title: Offense Vs Defense
Post by: chipstern on December 10, 2022, 04:54:44 PM
As Hahn pointed out.

First quarter of the season, we're lookin to play with more pace, faster on offense.

Impacted defense.

More methodical approach now, as Thibs said, not "settling" for pull-ups, but attacking the rack.

Mitchell dominant on the boards, offensive rebounds and blocks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 10, 2022, 05:18:22 PM
Mitchell is playing brilliantly. And Grimes is our homegrown Deven Booker (hey, give me my dreams).

Randle is a risky motherfucker, but he's already proved he's a beast.

RJ on the other hand has only proved that he has "potential" to be a force. Am not betting on it, but still rooting for the guy. I can't seem to forget Kam's observation that when he went to Madison Square Garden, RJ looked like he was playing in slow motion.

Props to the front office for Grimes and Deuce. I love how tough these guys are. And Grimes is so fucking versatile.

Obi should have been used differently or traded IMHO. One can argue that he's just coming along slowly, but I don't think his game (and his beautiful athleticism) fit well with Thib's approach. Maybe I've got that wrong, I don't know. Just seems so.
Title: Re: Thibs Rotation
Post by: elephant on December 10, 2022, 05:21:58 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 10, 2022, 03:23:04 PM
Thibs gave everyone a shot in the first quarter of the season, but now as Alan Hahn put it last night, Coach decided NOW WE'RE GOING TO DO IT MY WAY.


Um. Not buying that.

In any case, premature. Let's meet back and discuss "Thib's Way" in three weeks
Title: Dawg
Post by: chipstern on December 10, 2022, 05:22:09 PM
His evaluation of RJ.

Remains to be seen.

How many assists on lobs last night?

Went to the FT LINE eight times, converting seven.

Julius went to the line 14 times, a really good omen. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 10, 2022, 07:48:31 PM
The idea that RJ has real good games is not debatable. The question is whether he'll ever be a major player on a winning team. Whether he can be a force that you can rely on:

Does he consistently play at a high level?
So far...no.

Is he clutch? Will he make the winning shots and the winning stops when we most need it?
So far...no.

Perhaps as you said....remains to be seen.

(but we've seen a lot)
Title: Kings
Post by: chipstern on December 10, 2022, 08:20:23 PM
Fox and Murray questionable
Title: Les🐶 sez
Post by: carlos123 on December 10, 2022, 09:05:49 PM
Quote from: Chip on December 10, 2022, 05:22:09 PM
His evaluation of RJ.

Remains to be seen.

How many assists on lobs last night?

Went to the FT LINE eight times, converting seven.


(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AL9nZEU0H2zMp4wfsOimmShfAXXeT788OZvH299rPPtFZMwAEmgqTiYair5G4ErkTLoiqIdK_3o17w-A7cEqH_xjbLGZ_pIb5x1-u2mFU3-y-8qtSA3WTZ7BPcf7eo7N-FxE6Sby1QxpAxjCyba-yvu0fgkg=w281-h157-no?authuser=0)(https://media.tenor.com/images/f45dc3deb54ae86b9276bd0aaa790972/tenor.gif)
Title: Thibs' Kids
Post by: chipstern on December 11, 2022, 01:18:22 AM
We have a young team.

Vets JR & JB are what, 28, 26.

RJ is 22? IH 24?

Two #25 picks, IQ and Grimes.

The #36 and #58 picks, Robinson/McBride and Sims.

Walker, Burks, Noel traded.

Fournier and Rose out of the rotation
Title: Julius
Post by: chipstern on December 11, 2022, 07:15:48 PM
On
Fucking
Fire
Title: Re: Julius
Post by: chipstern on December 11, 2022, 07:19:42 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 11, 2022, 07:15:48 PM
On
Fucking
Fire

First half

JR 27
RJ 12
JB 11

Title: RJ
Post by: chipstern on December 11, 2022, 08:43:48 PM
27
9
6

We WON

Unleash The Hounds Of The Negative Nancies

👀👀🤥👀👀

AaaaaRfff
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 11, 2022, 11:37:26 PM
I think Brunson aught to be parked in street clothes or just home off his feet for this road stretch.

He has been taking lumps lately and we are better when he is rolling full speed.

Nice and gritty win.

Randle needs to do a better job keeping his head.
Title: NNs and PPs
Post by: carlos123 on December 12, 2022, 12:44:26 AM
Quote from: Chip on December 11, 2022, 08:43:48 PM
27
9
6

We WON

Unleash The Hounds Of The Negative Nancies

👀👀🤥👀👀

AaaaaRfff

NNs🧎🏽salute you, o PP#1 🧍🏼‍♀️

PS. Agree, Fac. JB needs a break, regardless of the state of his ankle.

PS#2. Is Chamaco back in jail or what?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 12, 2022, 02:18:32 AM
Bulls are gonna be pissed. The Hawks snatched a tight one from them.
Title: Re: Kings
Post by: lesterluv on December 12, 2022, 11:05:25 AM
Quote from: chipstern on December 10, 2022, 03:27:00 PM
PS: What, no smart as from Dawg?

well hard to get too smart when Deuce, Grimes & Mitch keep putting a smile on my face but...

nothing has fundamentally changed in my world view.

** also we have had a truly extraordinary run of facing teams without stars, still, to our credit, we have taken advantage of it.

***Poor Bo, meets his maker before the "police-have-nothing-to-do-with-it-app" meets its maker https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/12/china/china-zero-covid-impact-beijing-intl-hnk-mic (https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/12/china/china-zero-covid-impact-beijing-intl-hnk-mic)

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 12, 2022, 11:42:28 AM
Regarding Randle's ejection. This from the Post:

"When he got the first [technical foul], we have to do a better job of helping him walk away," the Knicks' coach said after his team's 112-99 win over the Kings. "As a team, staff, all of us."

I mean, really, this is some infantilizing bullshit. He's a fucking man. Aspirations of a leader. Not complicated. Control your emotions, because guys are looking to you to be there.

This is the kind of weeny perspective that led to all the shit last year. Call Julius on this shit, don't coddle.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 12, 2022, 11:58:14 AM
Just one more reason why my World Outlook remains unchanged..what a colossal chucklehead.....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 12, 2022, 01:46:45 PM
Did Thibs keep Julius numbers down again?

Funny.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 12, 2022, 01:49:46 PM
I talk about 15+ game scores a lot (new analytics - basketball Reference) -

even with Thibs keeping the Randle minutes at 27, Julius goes for his 8th 15+ game in ten.

Game log for Randle:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/randlju01/gamelog/2023
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 12, 2022, 01:50:36 PM
Oh, my bad - just catching up.  Randle ws ejected?

Even funnier.
Title: Jail
Post by: carlos123 on December 12, 2022, 02:02:59 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on December 12, 2022, 01:50:36 PM
Oh, my bad - just catching up.  Randle ws ejected?

Even funnier.

Guess tv was not available in jail yesterday. Poor Chamaco!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 12, 2022, 04:00:26 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 12, 2022, 01:50:36 PM
Oh, my bad - just catching up.  Randle ws ejected?

Even funnier.

Are you slow-witted? No one is saying Julius isn't balling.

Didn't you always tell folks that they "should watch the game" before dismissing their views?

Funny.

Anyhow, if you saw his tantrum, your response might have been less dumb.
Title: WhatTheActualFuck????
Post by: chipstern on December 12, 2022, 05:10:19 PM
Quote from: elephant on December 12, 2022, 04:00:26 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 12, 2022, 01:50:36 PM
Oh, my bad - just catching up.  Randle ws ejected?

Even funnier.

Are you slow-witted? No one is saying Julius isn't balling.

Didn't you always tell folks that they "should watch the game" before dismissing their views?

Funny.

Anyhow, if you saw his tantrum, your response might have been less dumb.

Befuddling. 

Julius playing and behaving on and off the court like a leader. 

TEAM MEETING

The Manner In Which His Game Has Evolved: Less pounding the rock; less turnovers; less spin moves into the triple team; more hard-strong moves to the rack; improved shooting in the near field and midrange; dialing in his three as a defensible threat; strong rebounding and passing. 

A MORE POSITIVE ON COURT ATTITUDE. 

All positives, all impacting team game, team coherence, ball movement team D. 

A Smile On His Face, Suporting His TeamMates. 

All POSITIVES. 

And then he completely loses his lunch in an on court tantrum, when he is on course to score 40-50 and crush Sabonis and the Kings. 

NO EXCUSES. 

Hopefully, a teachable moment for Thibs and the Knicks to take Julius aside, smile, put an arm around his massive shoulders, and say, "God Knows, we love you, YOU THE MAN, but...WhatTheActualFUCK, big guy." 
Title: XMAS Comes Early For Facil
Post by: chipstern on December 12, 2022, 05:14:02 PM
Bulls
Wednesday

Bulls
Friday

Pacers
Sunday

Knicks, Hawks, Pacers knotted at 14-13 in 6,7,8

DeRozan and Lavine a BIG CHALLENGE for Grimes and McBride.

PS:  Attention all Trader Vics.  Thursday is DECEMBER 15.  Transactions Galore, least ways, the option to do so. 
Title: Re: WhatTheActualFuck????
Post by: lesterluv on December 12, 2022, 06:55:53 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 12, 2022, 05:10:19 PM
Hopefully, a teachable moment for Thibs and the Knicks to take Julius aside, smile, put an arm around his massive shoulders, and say, "God Knows, we love you, YOU THE MAN, but...WhatTheActualFUCK, big guy."

You honestly believe he's teachable?

I would not trust him in a game 7, a game 3, a game 1. I would not trust him with a fox, in a box, in a train, in the rain, in a house, with a mouse, thank you thank you Sam I am I do not trust that goofy man.

All any opposing coach needs to do is send in a 12th man to whisper in the Julius ear: Sabonis told me your wife's coochie taste just like Honey Nut Cheerios.

Boom Bang Gone

I'm glad he's playing well so we can offload him and his eggshell noggin as fast as possible.

Title: Aileen Cannon Gets A Judicial Spanking
Post by: chipstern on December 12, 2022, 06:56:10 PM
(https://scontent-lga3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/319886480_8785320684826546_4637195240050133252_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=aUK8wHge_IgAX8DmRLZ&tn=xl05267qLY6AVrGm&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-2.xx&oh=00_AfC_1fVdMPg2FjJu_2BRIrcozBGPrnGdUI2JeSPMQH0iZg&oe=639D25A5)
Title: Re: WhatTheActualFuck????
Post by: chipstern on December 12, 2022, 06:57:17 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on December 12, 2022, 06:55:53 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 12, 2022, 05:10:19 PM
Hopefully, a teachable moment for Thibs and the Knicks to take Julius aside, smile, put an arm around his massive shoulders, and say, "God Knows, we love you, YOU THE MAN, but...WhatTheActualFUCK, big guy."

You honestly believe he's teachable?

I would not trust him in a game 7, a game 3, a game 1. I would not trust him with a fox, in a box, in a train, in the rain, in a house, with a mouse, thank you thank you Sam I am I do not trust that goofy man.

All any opposing coach needs to do is send in a 12th man to whisper in the Julius ear: Sabonis told me your wife's coochie taste just like Honey Nut Cheerios.

Boom Bang Gone

I'm glad he's playing well so we can offload him and his eggshell noggin as fast as possible.

(https://res.cloudinary.com/jerrick/image/upload/v1626718558/60f5c15e1af52c001e798580.jpg)
Title: Re: WhatTheActualFuck????
Post by: elephant on December 12, 2022, 06:57:44 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 12, 2022, 05:10:19 PM
Quote from: elephant on December 12, 2022, 04:00:26 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 12, 2022, 01:50:36 PM
Oh, my bad - just catching up.  Randle ws ejected?

Even funnier.

Are you slow-witted? No one is saying Julius isn't balling.

Didn't you always tell folks that they "should watch the game" before dismissing their views?

Funny.

Anyhow, if you saw his tantrum, your response might have been less dumb.

Befuddling. 

Julius playing and behaving on and off the court like a leader. 

TEAM MEETING

The Manner In Which His Game Has Evolved: Less pounding the rock; less turnovers; less spin moves into the triple team; more hard-strong moves to the rack; improved shooting in the near field and midrange; dialing in his three as a defensible threat; strong rebounding and passing. 

A MORE POSITIVE ON COURT ATTITUDE. 

All positives, all impacting team game, team coherence, ball movement team D. 

A Smile On His Face, Suporting His TeamMates. 

All POSITIVES. 

And then he completely loses his lunch in an on court tantrum, when he is on course to score 40-50 and crush Sabonis and the Kings. 

NO EXCUSES. 

Hopefully, a teachable moment for Thibs and the Knicks to take Julius aside, smile, put an arm around his massive shoulders, and say, "God Knows, we love you, YOU THE MAN, but...WhatTheActualFUCK, big guy."

Perfectly said.

(including the list of all the positive stuff he's been bringing to the team this year).

Title: Re: WhatTheActualFuck????
Post by: elephant on December 12, 2022, 06:59:56 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on December 12, 2022, 06:55:53 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 12, 2022, 05:10:19 PM
Hopefully, a teachable moment for Thibs and the Knicks to take Julius aside, smile, put an arm around his massive shoulders, and say, "God Knows, we love you, YOU THE MAN, but...WhatTheActualFUCK, big guy."

You honestly believe he's teachable?

I would not trust him in a game 7, a game 3, a game 1. I would not trust him with a fox, in a box, in a train, in the rain, in a house, with a mouse, thank you thank you Sam I am I do not trust that goofy man.

All any opposing coach needs to do is send in a 12th man to whisper in the Julius ear: Sabonis told me your wife's coochie taste just like Honey Nut Cheerios.

Boom Bang Gone

I'm glad he's playing well so we can offload him and his eggshell noggin as fast as possible.

Disagree but....

pretty fucking funny.
Title: Dawg > Grinch [The King Of Comedy]
Post by: chipstern on December 12, 2022, 07:05:32 PM
Quote from: elephant on December 12, 2022, 06:59:56 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on December 12, 2022, 06:55:53 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 12, 2022, 05:10:19 PM
Hopefully, a teachable moment for Thibs and the Knicks to take Julius aside, smile, put an arm around his massive shoulders, and say, "God Knows, we love you, YOU THE MAN, but...WhatTheActualFUCK, big guy."

You honestly believe he's teachable?

I would not trust him in a game 7, a game 3, a game 1. I would not trust him with a fox, in a box, in a train, in the rain, in a house, with a mouse, thank you thank you Sam I am I do not trust that goofy man.

All any opposing coach needs to do is send in a 12th man to whisper in the Julius ear: Sabonis told me your wife's coochie taste just like Honey Nut Cheerios.

Boom Bang Gone

I'm glad he's playing well so we can offload him and his eggshell noggin as fast as possible.

Disagree but....

pretty fucking funny.

True Dat.

Did you pick up on the Dr. Seuss reference? 

(https://media4.giphy.com/media/UChPEs9ghFo2s/giphy.gif)
Title: Cade Cunningham
Post by: chipstern on December 12, 2022, 07:07:54 PM
https://nbadraftroom.com/p/2023-nba-mock-draft/ (https://nbadraftroom.com/p/2023-nba-mock-draft/)

Season Ending Surgery

A Tim Duncan Draft Lottery Moment For The Pistons? 
Title: Re: WhatTheActualFuck????
Post by: lesterluv on December 12, 2022, 08:09:28 PM
Quote from: elephant on December 12, 2022, 06:59:56 PM

Disagree but....


I'm not even sure I fully agree, but c'mon Julius, you're having probably the best game of your whole f'ing career and you can't keep from sabotaging yourself...jeez.
Title: Re: Aileen Cannon Gets A Judicial Spanking
Post by: carlos123 on December 12, 2022, 08:17:01 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 12, 2022, 06:56:10 PM
(https://scontent-lga3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/319886480_8785320684826546_4637195240050133252_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=aUK8wHge_IgAX8DmRLZ&tn=xl05267qLY6AVrGm&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-2.xx&oh=00_AfC_1fVdMPg2FjJu_2BRIrcozBGPrnGdUI2JeSPMQH0iZg&oe=639D25A5)

Oh NOOOOOOOO!!!!

That Cannon is Chamacos favorite judge.

Also, the one who was gonna get him out of jail.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: WhatTheActualFuck????
Post by: chipstern on December 12, 2022, 09:23:23 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on December 12, 2022, 08:09:28 PM
Quote from: elephant on December 12, 2022, 06:59:56 PM

Disagree but....


I'm not even sure I fully agree, but c'mon Julius, you're having probably the best game of your whole f'ing career and you can't keep from sabotaging yourself...jeez.

Yup

Mutton Head

Hopefully he got this hissy fit out of his system.  Has been so positive, even, dare one say...HAPPY on so many levels, and it has been contagious. 

If Theo Pinson was still here, he'd have grabbed Julius. 

PS: It was a pretty unevenly reffed game [no reset of the clock to 14 when the ball hit the rim], and Julius was fouled pretty hard, front AND back. 

PPS: Still, the best response is not to take it out on the refs, but take it out on Sabonis & Barnes.  Nothing says eat me quite like dropping 50 on a motherfucker. 
Title: Rumors DeJour
Post by: chipstern on December 13, 2022, 01:09:44 PM
Fournier

For

Patrick Beverley
Kendrick Nunn

Has been reported as a possibility

Ending contracts

Not sure I'm buying this. 

Would tossing in one of our protected #1 picks move the needle?

Anyway, two more daze till the trading frenzy commences. 
Title: Re: Rumors DeJour
Post by: elephant on December 13, 2022, 10:50:48 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 13, 2022, 01:09:44 PM
Fournier

For

Patrick Beverley
Kendrick Nunn

Has been reported as a possibility

Ending contracts

Not sure I'm buying this. 

Would tossing in one of our protected #1 picks move the needle?

Anyway, two more daze till the trading frenzy commences.

So like....what we do with them if they come?

In other news, Randle has apologized for being the occasional bonehead.

Apology accepted! I like the dude.

Title: Re: Rumors DeJour
Post by: chipstern on December 14, 2022, 02:45:44 AM
Quote from: elephant on December 13, 2022, 10:50:48 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 13, 2022, 01:09:44 PM
Fournier

For

Patrick Beverley
Kendrick Nunn

Has been reported as a possibility

Ending contracts

Not sure I'm buying this. 

Would tossing in one of our protected #1 picks move the needle?

Anyway, two more daze till the trading frenzy commences.

So like....what we do with them if they come?

In other news, Randle has apologized for being the occasional bonehead.

Apology accepted! I like the dude.

Exactly.

If thats the return, keep Evan and Cam.  We are not a registered charity.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 14, 2022, 08:07:06 AM
I think Beverley can affect a game to a greater extent than Deuce.  And also a better fall back starter if Jalen is injured.  That said...... Julius-Beverley would have to be on same page.  Risky.
Title: Curiouser & Curiouser
Post by: chipstern on December 14, 2022, 06:29:51 PM
Phantasy GM jerkoffs are to a man concocting One RIDICULOUS scenario after another in which the Knicks are giving away Immannuel Quickley for a bag of beans.

IQ, in his third season, is a better facilitator and rebounder, more efficient offensively.  His 3 point shooting is down, but his two point is up.  Thibs clearly trusts him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: LarryB! on December 14, 2022, 06:55:47 PM
Nice moment at the pre game presser today..


https://twitter.com/nbcsbulls/status/1603171451854622720?s=61&t=7-JB4FiVbnogfgvCRPTwrg
Title: Thibs "designing" plays
Post by: carlos123 on December 14, 2022, 10:20:57 PM
What an f-in joke at the end of regulation. Just give it to Randle, hold it for 24 seconds and then shoot.
Of course, once the Bulls saw Randle holding the ball, they knew what the "play" was. All they needed to do was make sure it was a tough shot.
Can nobody on the staff suggest a play out of a time-out?
Can Grimes save this game? Hope so, we need it.
Yeaaaaah, it is happening!
Title: Brunson & Grimes In OT
Post by: chipstern on December 14, 2022, 10:29:59 PM
Randle
Brunson
RJ

Maybe not a Big Three, but starting to gel

Like how Julius deferred to Jalen in OT.  Outscored Bulls 11-3

GRIMES

Now that's how you close out
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 14, 2022, 10:38:23 PM
I was screaming find Grimes. Finally Julius did.

Brunson with the nasty on Caruso to ice it.

That was much harder than it needed to be and much easier than it will be Friday.

Title: Cough
Post by: chipstern on December 14, 2022, 10:47:52 PM
Thibs
Title: Re: Cough
Post by: carlos123 on December 14, 2022, 11:52:57 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 14, 2022, 10:47:52 PM
Thibs

He makes you cough?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 15, 2022, 12:53:36 AM
The play he drew up for the end of regulation made me throw up a little bit in my mouth.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 15, 2022, 09:02:29 AM
Cool win.  Hated the last possession in regulation of course.  And a few others.  But whatever... Grimes came up big.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 15, 2022, 11:06:21 AM
Grimes is just coming along.

We might really have something here.

As for that last play, I was thinking, You finally get a strong, gutsy point guard and you decide to just have Randle hold on to the ball?

Made no sense. One of those weird Thibs moments.  I mean, even if you wanted Randle to take the shot, give it to Brunson, run a play, and get it to Julius for a good look.

BTW, Kid, weren't you noting that Brunson has come up short a couple of times with the game on the line?

He didn't come up short last night.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 15, 2022, 12:40:52 PM
Quote from: elephant on December 15, 2022, 11:06:21 AM
Grimes is just coming along.

We might really have something here.

As for that last play, I was thinking, You finally get a strong, gutsy point guard and you decide to just have Randle hold on to the ball?

Made no sense. One of those weird Thibs moments.  I mean, even if you wanted Randle to take the shot, give it to Brunson, run a play, and get it to Julius for a good look.

BTW, Kid, weren't you noting that Brunson has come up short a couple of times with the game on the line?

He didn't come up short last night.

He was also bemoaning us passing on Bones Hyland to pick Quentin Grimes, not seeing what all of us dig in Grimes.

Then again, this is the Bishop who annointed Jordan Hill.for Sainthood. 

PS: Brunson is the Buster Keaton of point guards. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 15, 2022, 12:50:52 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 15, 2022, 12:40:52 PM
Quote from: elephant on December 15, 2022, 11:06:21 AM
Grimes is just coming along.

We might really have something here.

As for that last play, I was thinking, You finally get a strong, gutsy point guard and you decide to just have Randle hold on to the ball?

Made no sense. One of those weird Thibs moments.  I mean, even if you wanted Randle to take the shot, give it to Brunson, run a play, and get it to Julius for a good look.

BTW, Kid, weren't you noting that Brunson has come up short a couple of times with the game on the line?

He didn't come up short last night.

He was also bemoaning us passing on Bones Hyland to pick Quentin Grimes, not seeing what all of us dig in Grimes.

Then again, this is the Bishop who annointed Jordan Hill.for Sainthood. 

PS: Brunson is the Buster Keaton of point guards.

PS: Hyland a nice player
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 15, 2022, 01:23:05 PM
that last play, so sad, so bad...

reconfirms my unwavering conviction that 2 boneheads + 1 butthead =

(https://thebaffler.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Williamson-Chantry-punk-yellow1-700x831.jpg)

not that I ever needed reconfirmation.

not gonna let that conviction sully my enjoyment of the present ride, however.
Title: Some Future, Improving Present
Post by: chipstern on December 15, 2022, 07:21:52 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on December 15, 2022, 01:23:05 PM
that last play, so sad, so bad...

reconfirms my unwavering conviction that 2 boneheads + 1 butthead =

(https://thebaffler.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Williamson-Chantry-punk-yellow1-700x831.jpg)

not that I ever needed reconfirmation.

not gonna let that conviction sully my enjoyment of the present ride, however.

RJ
22-6-2
4-7 from trey
2-2 FTs

JR
31-13-7
12-15 FTs
3-7 from trey

JB
30-2-7
5-5 FTs
3-6 trey

Grimes
14-5-2
4-7 trey
Title: Good Lovin'
Post by: chipstern on December 15, 2022, 09:58:15 PM
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSrLEEggK31lmh2w5h8uXXU4b1SVAq0MAEjTF4TEVUCyA1uXiosBXvFXk_ZqH__J275W58&usqp=CAU)
Title: Pay Dirt
Post by: chipstern on December 16, 2022, 02:43:10 PM
(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/01/51/67/015167aec1e3071e4cc77647a3c8b602.jpg)

Bol Bol, Son of Manute Bol. 

Bounced around, trying to get healthy, with zero playing time behind Jokic in Denver; a failed physical in Detroit; a cup of coffee in Boston, before finally alighting in Orlando. 

(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/oBfSIYelxltvM6a02hkUsw--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTY0MDtoPTQyNw--/https://media.zenfs.com/en/ap.org/9e96ff2343936640ed27ca72d6f4a55d)

The Magic appear to have hit PAYDIRT. 

Selected #44 by the Miami Heat in the 2019 R.J. Barrett. 

This 7'2" power forward can run the floor, handle the rock, put the ball on the floor, and score inside or outside.

In 27 minutes a night, he has hit 24-54 of his threes [.426%], 44-56 FTs [.786%], while shooting 128-196   for a .653 FG%. 

Paolo Banchero
Bol Bol
Wendell Carter
Mo Bamba
The Wagner Brothers, Franz & Mo
Jonathan Isaac [Healing]

That is a pretty formidable assemblage of skilled bigs. 

Wonder who Thibs would nail to the pine? 

Nevertheless, Magic have been dealing with injuries, and while 8-9 at home, are 1-11 on the road. 

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/17/Victor_Wembanyama.jpg/220px-Victor_Wembanyama.jpg)

PS: Hmmmm, think they would draft Victor Wembanyama if they end up with the #1 in the Draft Lottery? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 16, 2022, 03:17:41 PM
Interesting! And thanks, I had no idea that Bol Bol was in Orlando and doing well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 16, 2022, 04:21:51 PM
Quote from: elephant on December 16, 2022, 03:17:41 PM
Interesting! And thanks, I had no idea that Bol Bol was in Orlando and doing well.

He is a human highlight film. 

Took a while to get fully healthy and thencefcorth to get meaningful minutes. 
Title: Louis Orr
Post by: chipstern on December 16, 2022, 04:30:56 PM
Former Knick and Georgetown AC, Louis Orr has passed away at 64 after a long bout with cancer.   

(https://imagez.tmz.com/image/87/4by3/2022/12/16/87269bff907d4e52a4a3e0fe381d8673_md.jpg) 

A peaceful journey, sir. 
Title: Re: Louis Orr
Post by: LarryB! on December 16, 2022, 04:33:14 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 16, 2022, 04:30:56 PM
Former Knick and Georgetown AC, Louis Orr as passed away at 64 after a long bout with cancer.   

(https://imagez.tmz.com/image/87/4by3/2022/12/16/87269bff907d4e52a4a3e0fe381d8673_md.jpg)

RIP #55
Title: Our PG
Post by: chipstern on December 16, 2022, 10:20:23 PM
Jalen playing at an AllStar level. 

💙👁💙

🌷🎁🌷
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 16, 2022, 10:47:29 PM
Holy Fuck.

We're playing so well on both ends.

15-2 on offensive rebounds!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 16, 2022, 10:56:51 PM
Quote from: elephant on December 16, 2022, 10:47:29 PM
Holy Fuck.

We're playing so well on both ends.

15-2 on offensive rebounds!

Simon Bolivar extends his Thibs Moratorium until January 1st.

Dawg offers a grudging backhanded compliment to team scoring leader [27] RJ...pausing only to piss on RJ's FT Shooting.

"But what about the emails."
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 16, 2022, 10:57:46 PM
Quote from: elephant on December 16, 2022, 10:47:29 PM
Holy Fuck.

We're playing so well on both ends.

15-2 on offensive rebounds!

Orlando beat Boston on their home court
Title: Hanukkah truce
Post by: carlos123 on December 16, 2022, 11:43:23 PM
Quote from: Chipirin el mas chingon on December 16, 2022, 10:56:51 PM
Quote from: elephant on December 16, 2022, 10:47:29 PM
Holy Fuck.

We're playing so well on both ends.

15-2 on offensive rebounds!

Simon Bolivar extends his Thibs Moratorium until January 1st.


I dont know, Chipirin, I asked Mr. Bol and he only offered a Hanukkah Truce, that is until December 26, in case you did not know.

That head looks soooooooo ripe for the chopping, and Mr. Thibs will keep designing genius plays off of timeouts.

We shall see, shant we?

PS. I had to rewrite this f-in post 4 f-in times!!! New restrictions arise unexpectedly when one least expects it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 17, 2022, 12:20:52 AM
One team made successful adjustments from the prior meeting. That was pretty awesome with a well balanced attack to compliment stifling defense.

Trusting Grimes, something he is steadily earning, opens everything up for everybody.

Whether they are hitting or not, Deuce and Quickley stop second units from feeling good about themselves.

This is starting to feel fun.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 17, 2022, 03:13:59 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 17, 2022, 12:20:52 AM
One team made successful adjustments from the prior meeting. That was pretty awesome with a well balanced attack to compliment stifling defense.

Trusting Grimes, something he is steadily earning, opens everything up for everybody.

Whether they are hitting or not, Deuce and Quickley stop second units from feeling good about themselves.

This is starting to feel fun.

Good run.

Everything clicking.

Positive Pussy that i am, still, let's see them do it vs the Nyets, who are also.peaking.

PS: Of course Simon Bolivar gives Thibs no credit for this run, having wet dreams about Mike Miller, and his great calls out of time outs
Title: Kemba
Post by: chipstern on December 18, 2022, 12:18:33 AM
In Doncic's absence, Kemba played over 40 minutes, and lit up the Cavs for 32, but Mavs lost 100-99.

2023 #1 pick?

I believe it is Top 10 protected.
Title: wet dreams
Post by: carlos123 on December 18, 2022, 12:42:12 AM
Quote from: Chipirin el mas chingon on December 17, 2022, 03:13:59 AM

PS: Of course Simon Bolivar gives Thibs no credit for this run, having wet dreams about Mike Miller, and his great calls out of time outs

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AL9nZEV2nxZKud22EFxvFgLYgYJ-TzNrsZ6Unc1LVwNK8QMUsyYckfTm19vtptyJQZeuw3a2hEsfPZUyr1pbGo_NYFT_Tk_6KWR7BSvUtJDafndhfIwc3K-CpYosN85CcB5BnFjElp3LooS9INAR-DNX5AlA=w1141-h647-no?authuser=0)
Title: Re: Kemba
Post by: carlos123 on December 18, 2022, 12:48:15 AM
Quote from: chipstern on December 18, 2022, 12:18:33 AM
In Doncic's absence, Kemba played over 40 minutes, and lit up the Cavs for 32, but Mavs lost 100-99.


Much better than Donovan Mitchell, who also played 42 minutes.

sorry, doggie 🐶
Title: Julius!
Post by: chipstern on December 18, 2022, 07:38:52 PM
Gritty Win

CLUTCH FTs

Pacers TOUGH
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 18, 2022, 08:35:29 PM
Wow. This is a truly unexpected level of consistency from our Knicks.

We had so many opportunities to tuck it away and fold or to lose the thread.

3-0 road trip brings the streak to 7.
Title: Guess What?
Post by: chipstern on December 18, 2022, 09:49:42 PM
WE APPEAR TO HAVE A BIG 3

JB
30

JR
25

RJ
24

Oh.

And a COACH.

Positive Pussies Unite
Title: Repent, Bolivar
Post by: chipstern on December 18, 2022, 10:14:50 PM
🙊🙉🙈
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 18, 2022, 10:23:48 PM
It is still a tough league out there and anything can happen.
Title: Re: Repent, Bolivar
Post by: carlos123 on December 18, 2022, 10:36:36 PM
Quote from: Chipirin el mas chingon on December 18, 2022, 10:14:50 PM
🙊🙉🙈

Is that an order or a request? 😳

Do you remember that Fac and yourself are my replacement candidates?

Can you design a play out of a timeout?

Maybe I should also consider my doggie 🐶 I am sure he could do that.
Title: Re: Repent, Bolivar
Post by: chipstern on December 18, 2022, 10:53:42 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 18, 2022, 10:36:36 PM
Quote from: Chipirin el mas chingon on December 18, 2022, 10:14:50 PM
🙊🙉🙈

Is that an order or a request? 😳

Do you remember that Fac and yourself are my replacement candidates?

Can you design a play out of a timeout?

Maybe I should also consider my doggie 🐶 I am sure he could do that.

Nah

He's too busy rubbing one out for Donovan Mitchell

PS: Banchero lighting it up, as Magic beat Celtics second game in a row

PPS: REPENT
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 18, 2022, 11:56:08 PM
Poole just hung 43 on some team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 19, 2022, 01:15:12 AM
The hapless Bulls gave up 150 to Minnesota.

That was a franchise record for the Timberwolves and....

Neither Towns nor Gobert was playing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 19, 2022, 06:51:46 AM
Quote from: elephant on December 19, 2022, 01:15:12 AM
The hapless Bulls gave up 150 to Minnesota.

That was a franchise record for the Timberwolves and....

Neither Towns nor Gobert was playing.

Anthony Edwards lit the Bulls up for 37
Title: Knock On Wood, Knicks On Good
Post by: chipstern on December 19, 2022, 01:40:03 PM
Too good to last.

Still.

Knicks are 17-13, 6th spot in the East, 1.5 games ahead of the Heat at #7.

Road warriors?

Celtics
11-5

Knicks
10-6 [7-7, home]

Trailblazers
10-7

(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-88kqDjAt9s4/WJRdDaWg72I/AAAAAAAAD-I/AuaI_FqlauwLuwTKI5MkAtI28UcI2DsKQCLcB/s1600/simon630.jpg)

SighMoan BowliVar: "Fire Thibs." 

(https://thecomeback.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/tom-thibodeau-presser.png)

THIBS: "No need for BowliVar to repent.  In the immortal words of Charles "Sonny" Liston, regarding his antagonist Norman Mailer, 'Let the bum speak.'"
Title: Chip Meshuga does not want to coach the Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on December 19, 2022, 04:11:45 PM
So here is an alternative.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AL9nZEXgDnG8mN5dmis2IhtCD1VGqwUv6cthWO74CKGdmxRYGOcOdIlGXwvGIYa25l-XtVoZ7GV0ZjRy-BpG5rGovvTU2IkK8AhuFE2D8qeMsibL45iFVwWoeq1cg7tLq92U0eaAVDw1vjKVyH-1NV5grgqY=w1141-h658-no?authuser=0)

Fac, I could make one with you but need a face pic, unless you want me to use your Ukranian woman.

PS. Hey, Chip, Happy Hanukkah!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 19, 2022, 04:16:07 PM
I try to keep out of the spot light. Thanks

The four keys to a happy Thibs travel well. Defense, rebounding, taking care of the ball, team rythym.

We just need to get that all together at home.

First test tomorrow
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 19, 2022, 04:33:15 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 19, 2022, 04:16:07 PM
I try to keep out of the spot light. Thanks

The four keys to a happy Thibs travel well. Defense, rebounding, taking care of the ball, team rythym.

We just need to get that all together at home.

First test tomorrow

True Dat. 

Warriors are wounded, but dangerous as a MF.

Curry out, but Jordan Poole is lighting things up.  And then there's that pesky Draymond and Klay tandem. 

Quentin Grimes, please pick up the Hostility Phone
Title: SighMoan
Post by: chipstern on December 19, 2022, 04:35:38 PM
Feliz Navidad to your bad self. 

(https://media4.giphy.com/media/3oxRmfXqr0Pl2HXwxG/giphy.gif)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2TQ2ehSsKs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2TQ2ehSsKs)

Title: Re: SighMoan
Post by: carlos123 on December 19, 2022, 07:15:07 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 19, 2022, 04:35:38 PM
Feliz Navidad to your bad self. 

(https://media4.giphy.com/media/3oxRmfXqr0Pl2HXwxG/giphy.gif)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2TQ2ehSsKs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2TQ2ehSsKs)

You too, Chipirin.

(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fc1.staticflickr.com%2F3%2F2396%2F2089995755_c772e1f5f2_b.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=a11239ebda83357eec3cf2cb8476eacf4f61f6fdb48b24f130449183aa80a97f&ipo=images)

PS#1. Very nice song.
PS#2. I am a good boy, not a bad self.
Title: Re: SighMoan
Post by: chipstern on December 19, 2022, 07:20:32 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 19, 2022, 07:15:07 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 19, 2022, 04:35:38 PM
Feliz Navidad to your bad self. 

(https://media4.giphy.com/media/3oxRmfXqr0Pl2HXwxG/giphy.gif)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2TQ2ehSsKs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2TQ2ehSsKs)

You too, Chipirin.

(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fc1.staticflickr.com%2F3%2F2396%2F2089995755_c772e1f5f2_b.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=a11239ebda83357eec3cf2cb8476eacf4f61f6fdb48b24f130449183aa80a97f&ipo=images)

PS#1. Very nice song.
PS#2. I am a good boy, not a bad self.

(https://scontent-lga3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/320524252_768256241388266_8915066061550491796_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=NkHT87jinKEAX-dxBB3&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-2.xx&oh=00_AfANvdLSFF-JQ94qU_p4QyppVPWDMfWt_w8gmgn85cdUHg&oe=63A5C906)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 20, 2022, 03:23:12 PM
Mitchell Robinson has been a beast.

I absolute love his impact The issue has always been, and still is, whether he can stay healthy.

The Knicks gave him a contract betting that he could. I don't know. But one thing seems clear:

He's playing the best basketball of his life.

An oft overlooked variable in our recent success.
Title: Superman commands Chipirin
Post by: carlos123 on December 20, 2022, 04:44:53 PM
Quote from: Chipirin el mas chingon on December 19, 2022, 07:20:32 PM

(https://scontent-lga3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/320524252_768256241388266_8915066061550491796_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=NkHT87jinKEAX-dxBB3&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-2.xx&oh=00_AfANvdLSFF-JQ94qU_p4QyppVPWDMfWt_w8gmgn85cdUHg&oe=63A5C906)

to listen to beautiful Sephardic Hanukkah songs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OjxNaWYjCE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OjxNaWYjCE)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CufG_fqgPk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CufG_fqgPk)
Title: Absolutely
Post by: carlos123 on December 20, 2022, 04:50:08 PM
Quote from: elephant on December 20, 2022, 03:23:12 PM
Mitchell Robinson has been a beast.

I absolute love his impact. The issue has always been, and still is, whether he can stay healthy.

The Knicks gave him a contract betting that he could. I don't know. But one thing seems clear:

He's playing the best basketball of his life.

An oft overlooked variable in our recent success.

If he can stay healthy, the Knicks got themselves a great bargain.
Title: Wounded Warriors
Post by: chipstern on December 20, 2022, 09:05:03 PM
True

But we are playing coherent offense

Tough D
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 20, 2022, 09:56:43 PM
Who are these guys?

Chemistry is unfuckingbelievable.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 20, 2022, 10:00:27 PM
That was pretty convincing. Basketball does not need to be complicated. It needs to be played hard with communication and focus to be any good and we got that.

Nice team win.

Not sure Hartenstein is the Joker of the East quite yet though.

Nice to see Quickley off his slump and I think we got a little burst of confidence offensively from Deuce. Hope to see it build and grow.

Svi and Archie are the deep bench, another sign our vets are on the block.
Title: Repent?
Post by: carlos123 on December 20, 2022, 10:16:34 PM
I have to show some mercy, at least until January.

Too bad, because Thibs head is soooo ripe!

I will just keep the little doggie licking the blood off the throat. It is so cute!

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AL9nZEVVHD6YeHTK0ZPOWguKZsUvKLemZQAcr_ZhxCylaRGmXU187i7jKdhCNEF5BS7nP8BS64fvFvaWXWoN-ztpVlVoucGsKtPGQ6i4E5AKKZku5xeQQRJtzFANasPS2Qc-xEFyGCVt7fHnusmKh5gdN-BZ=w522-h306-no?authuser=0)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 20, 2022, 11:38:07 PM
The two guys in our rotation who were the only two who I thought could not be effectively played together, Mitch and Jericho, actually played together for a short bit and were effective. 

This is a very strange world.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 21, 2022, 12:12:51 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 20, 2022, 11:38:07 PM
The two guys in our rotation who were the only two who I thought could not be effectively played together, Mitch and Jericho, actually played together for a short bit and were effective. 

This is a very strange world.

Yes it is.

Jericho looking better and better.

IQ justifying THIBS continuing faith in him.

Grimes making a step up.

Deuce starting to dial in his three.

Randle in beast mode.

JR & RJ with 5 assists each.

First man off the bench in GarBaage time....SVI

Raptors a tough matchup.

Fingers crossed.
Title: Seperated At Birth
Post by: chipstern on December 21, 2022, 02:53:44 PM
(https://library.sportingnews.com/styles/crop_style_16_9_mobile_2x/s3/2022-11/GettyImages-1244650000%20%281%29.jpg?itok=lua86zUI)

(https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/static/uploads/2021/06/Buster-Keaton-the-general.jpg)
Title: Free Agency Penalty For Tampering
Post by: chipstern on December 21, 2022, 05:13:14 PM
NBA docked Knicks a 2025 Second Round Pick for free agency signing of Jalen Brunson

Pre-FA Date Contact

[COUGH]

Be still my heart.
Title: Re: Free Agency Penalty For Tampering
Post by: carlos123 on December 21, 2022, 05:25:03 PM
Quote from: el mas chingon on December 21, 2022, 05:13:14 PM
NBA docked Knicks a 2025 Second Round Pick for free agency signing of Jalen Brunson

Pre-FA Date Contact

[COUGH]

Be still my heart.

Let us keep doing it!

It was worth it 😁
Title: Bowl-A-Wet-Bar
Post by: chipstern on December 21, 2022, 06:36:21 PM
If Knicks win tonight against the Raptors, you are proscribed from engaging in your Thibian blood lust through the February 15 trade deadline.

If on Friday against the Bulls and Sunday against the Sixers, we come out on top, you are to renounce your blood lust through April and the playoffs. 

REPENT...Repent...REPENT...Repent...REPENT


(https://y.yarn.co/fbf57dea-a024-4a85-bec2-602317a63fed_text.gif)

Positive Pussies Unite

(http://25.media.tumblr.com/6ecadc0d1010a181f6f84786a907d454/tumblr_mjse3sZ6L31razoqpo1_500.gif)
Title: Who ARE These Guys
Post by: chipstern on December 21, 2022, 08:09:23 PM
Grimes on ice.

NEXT MAN UP.

A Derek Rose Siting!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 21, 2022, 09:01:05 PM
Would have been aa good night to take the wraps off of Svi.
Title: Third Quarter
Post by: chipstern on December 21, 2022, 09:04:16 PM
Think THIBS Had Something TO Say AT Halftime.

Knicks come out on fire. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 21, 2022, 09:05:51 PM
Nets with a chance to have TEN players in double digits tonight.  May be unprecedented.
Title: TURNOVERS
Post by: chipstern on December 21, 2022, 09:21:05 PM
A MF

Raptors playing really tough D. 

Like Knicks Vs. Knicks.

Tell you what, no Knicks team of my recollection would come back from 14 in the third quarter. 

Still, turnovers our undoing. 

Raptors with two

Knicks with 13

There it is
Title: Re: TURNOVERS
Post by: chipstern on December 21, 2022, 09:35:03 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 21, 2022, 09:21:05 PM
A MF

Raptors playing really tough D. 

Like Knicks Vs. Knicks.

Tell you what, no Knicks team of my recollection would come back from 14 in the third quarter. 

Still, turnovers our undoing. 

Raptors with two

Knicks with 13

There it is

And Brunson an off nights. 

JR 9-9 from two, three missed threes, and many missed FTs. 

Knicks still scrapping, though. 
Title: RJ & IQ
Post by: chipstern on December 21, 2022, 09:50:33 PM
Dawg

Can suck my big toe

And call me

MOE
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 21, 2022, 10:03:58 PM
We were not going to keep winning forever.

Get well soon QG.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 21, 2022, 10:16:26 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 21, 2022, 10:03:58 PM
We were not going to keep winning forever.

Get well soon QG.

Hey we fought back.

In it down to the final 90 seconds

Siakim had the game of a lifetime

We were defeated

NOT WHUUPPED
Title: GRIMES ON ICE
Post by: carlos123 on December 22, 2022, 12:29:46 AM
Quote from: el mas chingon on December 21, 2022, 08:09:23 PM
Grimes on ice.

NEXT MAN UP.

A Derek Rose Siting!

Well, I did not see the game, was busy someplace else, so the main difference I can see is that Grimes did not play. WHAT HAPPENED TO HIM?

Quote from: Chipirin on December 21, 2022, 06:36:21 PM

REPENT...Repent...REPENT...Repent...REPENT



Ok, I will REPENT for a while, but the little doggie is soooooo cuuuuute...

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AL9nZEVVHD6YeHTK0ZPOWguKZsUvKLemZQAcr_ZhxCylaRGmXU187i7jKdhCNEF5BS7nP8BS64fvFvaWXWoN-ztpVlVoucGsKtPGQ6i4E5AKKZku5xeQQRJtzFANasPS2Qc-xEFyGCVt7fHnusmKh5gdN-BZ=w522-h306-no?authuser=0)

PS. Chip, nice pic of Buster Keaton! You are right about Brunson having the same expression of bewilderment.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 22, 2022, 02:12:55 PM
Sprained ankle. He should not be down too long.
Title: Re: GRIMES ON ICE
Post by: chipstern on December 22, 2022, 03:54:34 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 22, 2022, 12:29:46 AM
Quote from: el mas chingon on December 21, 2022, 08:09:23 PM
Grimes on ice.

NEXT MAN UP.

A Derek Rose Siting!

Well, I did not see the game, was busy someplace else, so the main difference I can see is that Grimes did not play. WHAT HAPPENED TO HIM?

Quote from: Chipirin on December 21, 2022, 06:36:21 PM

REPENT...Repent...REPENT...Repent...REPENT



Ok, I will REPENT for a while, but the little doggie is soooooo cuuuuute...

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AL9nZEVVHD6YeHTK0ZPOWguKZsUvKLemZQAcr_ZhxCylaRGmXU187i7jKdhCNEF5BS7nP8BS64fvFvaWXWoN-ztpVlVoucGsKtPGQ6i4E5AKKZku5xeQQRJtzFANasPS2Qc-xEFyGCVt7fHnusmKh5gdN-BZ=w522-h306-no?authuser=0)

PS. Chip, nice pic of Buster Keaton! You are right about Brunson having the same expression of bewilderment.

No

NOT Bewilderment

Masters of the Pratfall
Title: Buster Brunson
Post by: carlos123 on December 22, 2022, 06:05:28 PM
Ok, that too!
Title: Feliz Navidad
Post by: chipstern on December 23, 2022, 04:52:04 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 23, 2022, 04:51:06 PM
(https://media.tenor.com/wrb_WKqP1KgAAAAC/tom-thibodeau-hungry.gif)

(https://media2.giphy.com/media/3ohzdMZho4Ody9bK8w/giphy.gif)
Title: RJ
Post by: chipstern on December 23, 2022, 08:38:07 PM
Repent, Dawg
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 23, 2022, 08:57:34 PM
Coming out party for RJ?
Title: Re: RJ
Post by: carlos123 on December 23, 2022, 09:34:03 PM
Quote from: Chipirin el mas chingon on December 23, 2022, 08:38:07 PM
Repent, Dawg

Chip, you want everybody to REPENT.

PREACHER CHIP wants everyone to follow his righteous march of POSITIVE PUSSIES UNITE!

My little doggie is still very cute, though.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AL9nZEVVHD6YeHTK0ZPOWguKZsUvKLemZQAcr_ZhxCylaRGmXU187i7jKdhCNEF5BS7nP8BS64fvFvaWXWoN-ztpVlVoucGsKtPGQ6i4E5AKKZku5xeQQRJtzFANasPS2Qc-xEFyGCVt7fHnusmKh5gdN-BZ=w522-h306-no?authuser=0)
Title: Free Throws
Post by: chipstern on December 23, 2022, 09:59:17 PM
That one hurt
Title: Re: Free Throws
Post by: carlos123 on December 23, 2022, 10:06:43 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 23, 2022, 09:59:17 PM
That one hurt

Damn! I was sure we were going to win. Damn!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on December 24, 2022, 11:12:41 AM
Couldn't get the stop.  That burns Thibs more than the free throws.   Bulls have a go to closer.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 24, 2022, 12:17:28 PM
Yeah. But it's also true that the Bull's closer missed the other night.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 24, 2022, 12:19:42 PM
Happy with Brunson. Hasn't played the role of "The Man" in his pro career.

But he'll almost certainly get there.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 24, 2022, 12:20:14 PM
If we win Sunday against Philly, all will be beautiful in Knickland.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 24, 2022, 12:25:49 PM
RJ has been playing sooooooo fucking good.

But...

(and here Chip scowls at me)

Occasionally, he's got to drive the bus all the way home.

And this has eluded him to date.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 24, 2022, 10:09:39 PM
Quote from: elephant on December 24, 2022, 12:25:49 PM
RJ has been playing sooooooo fucking good.

But...

(and here Chip scowls at me)

Occasionally, he's got to drive the bus all the way home.

And this has eluded him to date.

Turnovers

Missed free throws

Everyone culpable
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 25, 2022, 03:50:50 AM
Quote from: chipstern on December 24, 2022, 10:09:39 PM
Quote from: elephant on December 24, 2022, 12:25:49 PM
RJ has been playing sooooooo fucking good.

But...

(and here Chip scowls at me)

Occasionally, he's got to drive the bus all the way home.

And this has eluded him to date.

Turnovers

Missed free throws

Everyone culpable

Of course! Of course everyone is culpable. I saw the game.

But that's not the point.

I'm saying that when RJ starts becoming the player that some have fantasized.......we'll all know it.

He'll produce some wins.

That's what the best guys in the NBA do. In a team sport, they manage to exert their will.  It's crazy how it happens. But you know it when you see it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 25, 2022, 04:24:57 AM
My gut feeling is that Brunson is playing through aches and pains
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 25, 2022, 02:32:37 PM
Too much Dieng and Milton

Embid and Harden top tier

Philly turned up the D in fourth

Everything that went right for RJ last time out, was not clicking offensively

Monster game for Julius

Harden schooled  Grimes
Title: Rotation
Post by: carlos123 on December 25, 2022, 02:58:28 PM
Our 9 man rotation is really a 7 man rotation: we are playing 3 centers and a total of 6 minutes for our second PG. So, the way I see it is:
Starting Center, 29 minutes. Bench centers, 27 minutes.
Four other starters: 40, 35, 39 and 43 minutes. Bench guard(s), 28 minutes.
That is the kind of rotation that Thibs and Chamaco like. The problem is that the guys are very tired at the end of the 4th quarter, when it counts most, and therefore they make a lot of mistakes, like we saw today and last Friday.

In addition to our mistakes, their two best players are way better than any of ours. There is no way we can beat the 76ers, even being ahead most of the game.

Merry Christmas!
Title: Gassed
Post by: chipstern on December 25, 2022, 04:18:47 PM
Correct you are, BowliVar.

Julius
Jalen
RJ

40 + PLUS

Grimes + IQ

GASSED

Fourth Quarter, no legs under our jumpers.

Two steps slow on defensive closeouts.

A tactical-rotational adjustment needed.

🙈🙉🙊
Title: Re: Gassed
Post by: carlos123 on December 25, 2022, 04:45:28 PM
Quote from: Chipirin el mas chingon on December 25, 2022, 04:18:47 PM

A tactical-rotational adjustment needed.

🙈🙉🙊

OR - - - - - -

Not saying anything for a while, but ---

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AL9nZEVVHD6YeHTK0ZPOWguKZsUvKLemZQAcr_ZhxCylaRGmXU187i7jKdhCNEF5BS7nP8BS64fvFvaWXWoN-ztpVlVoucGsKtPGQ6i4E5AKKZku5xeQQRJtzFANasPS2Qc-xEFyGCVt7fHnusmKh5gdN-BZ=w522-h306-no?authuser=0)

- - - the little doggie is still very, very cute.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 25, 2022, 05:51:09 PM
We are still marginally ahead of schedule. We need to win a couple now to keep treading water.
Title: True PP
Post by: carlos123 on December 25, 2022, 06:46:29 PM
Quote from: Fac on December 25, 2022, 05:51:09 PM
We are still marginally ahead of schedule. We need to win a couple now to keep treading water.

You mean like at Dallas on Tuesday?

I admire you, you are a true Positive Pussy!

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AL9nZEWiAJKUFrCdPdNV6t-CGQkeKB-c66MDkWeAye9C_rpbs9HG3_O3dCILsH2De4ZFQp49a6O6D_DNgkTyGRD88MDpivg51Djoz-QXGduCd0UsDQ5fWT1sh9MmfCXrGhmyKU1Eg4XTrJLGU07_RlCITJp8=w599-h460-no?authuser=0)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 25, 2022, 07:04:53 PM
Maybe not right away.

The Brunson hip thing looks like it might need some time.
Title: Harden Hard On [The Knicks]
Post by: chipstern on December 26, 2022, 02:06:18 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fk2deZaWQAISAvj?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Title: For the lovers of Donovan Mitchell
Post by: carlos123 on December 26, 2022, 09:48:07 PM
Stats of the day: 34 minutes, 5-16 FG, 3 rebounds, 5 assists, 15 points and a +/- of -13.

PS. Harden is PHAT.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 27, 2022, 11:36:01 AM
So you're saying Donovan Mitchell had a subpar game.

And that means what exactly?
Title: DM
Post by: carlos123 on December 27, 2022, 04:05:48 PM
Quote from: elephant on December 27, 2022, 11:36:01 AM
So you're saying Donovan Mitchell had a subpar game.

And that means what exactly?

Yes, I am saying that.

Maybe he had more. But I have not checked that out. I am too lazy for it. I am sure other guys are less so and they will do it.

And Harden is still phat, I was saying that too.
Title: Donovan
Post by: chipstern on December 27, 2022, 05:52:50 PM
So Donovan is human.

Which doesn't mean that 7 out of 10 times he takes the court he is a one mam army.

And while DM was drawing defensive attention, Garland went totally apeshit.

Hey, against the Bulls, our own RJ was a one mam army.  Against the Sixers, he came down to Earth.

Top Tier players oft times remind us that they are human. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 27, 2022, 10:55:26 PM
Look. I don't wanna be pissy.

And I'm not an NBA coach.

But knowing that Luka was going to miss that 2nd shot, I don't know how you don't bring in one more big body w/hands....like Hartenstein....for the rebound.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 27, 2022, 11:13:23 PM
I tuned in with 6 and 30 left in the fourth. Fucking hell.
Title: AGAIN
Post by: carlos123 on December 27, 2022, 11:15:23 PM
Too dumb and too tired at the end.

Cannot say what I think until next year, but you know what it is.

Damn!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 27, 2022, 11:51:48 PM
lol, I'm not watching another f'ing game until that fat fuck is canned.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FlCUrU9WIAA1DJ7?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 28, 2022, 12:03:05 AM
I feel bad for Julius with this one. Lot on his back.

Also feel bad for Thibs.

You can see how much he wants it. How he gets guys to play extremely hard.

But his tactical weaknesses seem exposed again and again.
Title: Hey Chip
Post by: carlos123 on December 28, 2022, 12:54:33 AM
Would you please lift my fatwa before the New Year?
Aint gonna do us any good, but I kinda need to express my frustration.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AL9nZEU6pHYsmJJdT48ZyTzrC9MQklDapv9GpSGLaPsZE-R8JYlcYJQUh1wbw7UBvZltDqVrQ7UzhiHzHzOvsj4kEeBFsxWK4BUoOQlIbJFo5n9BBSbwcbtT47buYDKskJJ4t_6iXogr-P2rMbNlnrKLhrKR=w740-h610-no?authuser=0)

Remember this?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 28, 2022, 01:04:43 AM
Quote from: elephant on December 28, 2022, 12:03:05 AM
I feel bad for Julius with this one. Lot on his back.

Also feel bad for Thibs.

You can see how much he wants it. How he gets guys to play extremely hard.

But his tactical weaknesses seem exposed again and again.

I do not think it is planning so much as teaching the offense that is the problem. Specifically, on the Julius elbow play, when it is reasonably defended, Jules gives two fakes and looks to make a pass. In that time no one has moved. There need to be actions away that spring players free to come toward Jules for a rythym jumper or a dive down the lane. Instead we stood around and watched and started working on cuts and screens about five beats in when it was already too late.

The only good thing about this situation is McBride needs the reps and Grimes needs a chance to shoulder more workload.

I hope we make it to 19-19.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: LarryB! on December 28, 2022, 12:21:14 PM
Luka had a MONSTER game!

Dirk being honored.
Knicks fell victim to a magic moment when the py were up nine with .33 to go.
Kinda looked like destiny.

BTW

Whiz beat Philly
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 28, 2022, 12:58:36 PM
Go Wiz. If they do well enough, we get their draft pick.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 28, 2022, 02:17:03 PM
As to our offensive breakdown, our top two ball handlers in closing situations were unavailable, so some hiccups were expected.

Additionally, if we want to get Randle the ball at the elbow, rather than a static dump down, run pick and roll where the first look is Randle at short roll. If we are going to post Randle he should post deep. He is way more effective in that scenario as almost any player with a developed post game is. The fakes fades and pivots are a much more immediate threat if he starts down low.

I will take four or five losses to run with this group if it convinces everyone that when we are at full strength that Grimes should remain a full participant starter instead of reverting to 3 and D when our full compliment is available, especially if it also wakes up Quickley and plants key seeds for Deuce as he develops.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 28, 2022, 03:09:03 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 28, 2022, 01:04:43 AM
Quote from: elephant on December 28, 2022, 12:03:05 AM
I feel bad for Julius with this one. Lot on his back.

Also feel bad for Thibs.

You can see how much he wants it. How he gets guys to play extremely hard.

But his tactical weaknesses seem exposed again and again.

I do not think it is planning so much as teaching the offense that is the problem. Specifically, on the Julius elbow play, when it is reasonably defended, Jules gives two fakes and looks to make a pass. In that time no one has moved. There need to be actions away that spring players free to come toward Jules for a rythym jumper or a dive down the lane. Instead we stood around and watched and started working on cuts and screens about five beats in when it was already too late.

I like your observations about using Randle (here and in your next post).

That said, we're consistently awful at the end of games.

And that...is a coaching thing.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 28, 2022, 03:24:56 PM
Game had lots of great moments for us. Grimes, Robinson, IQ, Julius, McBride. We're coming around.

And if not for THE SUPERSTAR, our coach almost got away with one.

But when you're playing guys all these minutes (McBride played for 48 46! McBride!), you shouldn't be shocked that they falter in the letter stages of the game.

We've got talent on the bench! Fruit dying on the vine!

Thib's inflexibility feels....dumb.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 28, 2022, 09:20:43 PM
Kidd subbing in McGee to close was the master chess move of the whole contest.

Looking at the salary structure of our roster going forward in terms of guys we play, it looks like the move going forward for this season is to get these guys playing together so they play better going forward into the years we still have most of them under contract. That means trying to win.

Towards that end I propose offering Houston a protected pick from our draft capital to swap Eric Gordon and Josh Christopher for Cam and Evan.

Gordon gives us a tough ass shot maker with smarts and experience while Christopher gives us a moldable young wing with some strength and pop. If they do or do not crack the rotation, they replace players who tried and failed to crack it. I think it would be worth it to roll the dice if the draft cost is reasonably proportionate.
Title: failed to crack it
Post by: carlos123 on December 28, 2022, 09:33:37 PM
Fac, regarding Cam, I do not know if the failure is with him or with Thibs, who never gave him a fair chance at it.

PS. Where is Chip when his favorite coach needs defenders?
Title: Intransigence
Post by: chipstern on December 29, 2022, 01:08:08 AM
The Dallas Loss Is On Thibs
Title: Re: Intransigence
Post by: chipstern on December 29, 2022, 02:53:32 AM
Quote from: chipstern on December 29, 2022, 01:08:08 AM
The Dallas Loss Is On Thibs

Capable players in Rose, Reddish and Fournier on the pine, and he treats his starters like fucking draft animals. 

Was Reddish going to STOP Luka. 

Dave DeB wasn't going to STOP Doncic. 

However, a seven foot wing span, a fresh set of legs, someone who needs to be guarded on offense. 

Might have given us a few positive possessions, just enough to keep the hounds at bay. 

Robinson [36] Randle [45], Grimes [48], McBride [46] and Quickley [51] were UTTERLY FUCKING GASSED.  They all played great, but had nothing left in the tank.  Which showed in defensive possessions, short armed threes, missed foul shots. 

Mavs starters played big minutes, too. 

But Kidd didn't play an 8-man rotation. 

Kidd played eleven, his bench for 61 minutes. 

Thibs played eight, his bench for 37 minutes. 

I get the nine man rotation thing, but fuck me. 

Think Evan and Cam might've been, oh, I don't know...FUCKING MOTIVATED to contribute to what should have been a road victory? 

We weren't whupped, even with Luka's generational game. 

But we came up short.  Were up 10 going into the fourth, still up by what 8-10, with under two minutes to play.  Outscored 33-22 in the fourth.  Thibs didn't miss all those free throws, but he, cause and effect...someone stop the bleeding, hello? 

In part, because of short rotations and short sighted thinking by a stubborn major domo. 
Title: Mark THIS On Your Calendar
Post by: chipstern on December 29, 2022, 08:06:06 AM
January 28, 2023

Knicks Vs Nets
Title: Re: Mark THIS On Your Calendar
Post by: carlos123 on December 29, 2022, 12:40:47 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 29, 2022, 08:06:06 AM
January 28, 2023

Knicks Vs Nets

Well, you did not lift my fatwa, so I cannot YET say what I am hoping for.

But you know what it is.

The Nyets did it, and it worked.
Title: Re: Mark THIS On Your Calendar
Post by: chipstern on December 29, 2022, 02:55:53 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on December 29, 2022, 12:40:47 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 29, 2022, 08:06:06 AM
January 28, 2023

Knicks Vs Nets

The Nyets did it, and it worked.

Yup
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 29, 2022, 03:32:28 PM
Thibs put his team in a position to win up into the very last possession against an opponent who was having a historic performance without his top ball handler and scorer going in and minus his second guy a minute in.

There were faults sure, but any one free throw or one more box out could have won the game. This was much less a coach burning game than the last time we met the Mavs where quitting was the problem.

I am calling it progress on as many fronts as it was regression.
Title: Fac
Post by: carlos123 on December 29, 2022, 03:43:46 PM
What you wrote would make sense if it did no happen repeatedly. A coach plays what in fact is a 7 man rotation, the guys are exhausted at the end of games, when it counts most, and therefore are unable to defend or score.
So, we are blowing games because our coach is a stubborn, blind mofo and you see progress? You may be endangering your coaching candidacy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 29, 2022, 04:37:14 PM
Once he found guys he wanted to use he got a stretch of top five defense combined with mid pack or better offense. Barrett and Brunson are not out long and we are finding out what guys in that strong defense group can and cannot do with those touches.

I am advocating for a trade because I expect to keep the coach and value guys he might use in the context of our current team over those he has looked at and put on a shelf.

I want another guy or two that can hold up their end of our D both athletically and by remembering their assignments and communicating. That way when we are short handed, we are not so short handed.
Title: Chip responds to Fac
Post by: carlos123 on December 29, 2022, 05:13:06 PM
Quote from: Chipirin on December 29, 2022, 02:53:32 AM
Quote from: el mas chingon on December 29, 2022, 01:08:08 AM
The Dallas Loss Is On Thibs

Capable players in Rose, Reddish and Fournier on the pine, and he treats his starters like fucking draft animals. 

Was Reddish going to STOP Luka. 

Dave DeB wasn't going to STOP Doncic. 

However, a seven foot wing span, a fresh set of legs, someone who needs to be guarded on offense. 

Might have given us a few positive possessions, just enough to keep the hounds at bay. 

Robinson [36] Randle [45], Grimes [48], McBride [46] and Quickley [51] were UTTERLY FUCKING GASSED.  They all played great, but had nothing left in the tank.  Which showed in defensive possessions, short armed threes, missed foul shots. 

Think Evan and Cam might've been, oh, I don't know...FUCKING MOTIVATED to contribute to what should have been a road victory? 

Were still up by what 8-10, with under two minutes to play.  Outscored 33-22 in the fourth.  Thibs didn't miss all those free throws, but he, cause and effect...someone stop the bleeding, hello? 

In part, because of short rotations and short-sighted thinking by a stubborn major domo.

Fac, I am disappointed in your coaching analysis.
Title: Spurs Centet
Post by: chipstern on December 30, 2022, 06:10:02 AM
Poeltl is it.

One of Facil's old trades with the Raptors, who used the #1 they got in the Bargnani heist to select the Austrian born center, later flipping JP and DeRozan for Kawhi
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 30, 2022, 01:48:41 PM
Quote from: elephant on December 28, 2022, 03:24:56 PM
Game had lots of great moments for us. Grimes, Robinson, IQ, Julius, McBride. We're coming around.

And if not for THE SUPERSTAR, our coach almost got away with one.

But when you're playing guys all these minutes (McBride played for 48 46! McBride!), you shouldn't be shocked that they falter in the letter stages of the game.

We've got talent on the bench! Fruit dying on the vine!

Thib's inflexibility feels....dumb.

The "tired player" thing is way overblown.  These guys thrive on minutes.  Happy New Year.  Glad you are still around.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on December 30, 2022, 01:51:30 PM
What do yu guys think is the prognosis fo Barrett and Brunson?  Cant really judge any scores/results without these guys.  Good to see Fournier.  True pro.
Title: Re: Spurs Centet
Post by: elephant on December 30, 2022, 04:29:31 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 30, 2022, 06:10:02 AM
Poeltl is it.

One of Facil's old trades with the Raptors, who used the #1 they got in the Bargnani heist to select the Austrian born center, later flipping JP and DeRozan for Kawhi

You know...maybe.

I was wondering why Mitch seemed to have a relatively weak game. Just much less of a force.

Was it Poeltl?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 30, 2022, 04:40:10 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on December 30, 2022, 01:48:41 PM
Quote from: elephant on December 28, 2022, 03:24:56 PM
Game had lots of great moments for us. Grimes, Robinson, IQ, Julius, McBride. We're coming around.

And if not for THE SUPERSTAR, our coach almost got away with one.

But when you're playing guys all these minutes (McBride played for 48 46! McBride!), you shouldn't be shocked that they falter in the letter stages of the game.

We've got talent on the bench! Fruit dying on the vine!

Thib's inflexibility feels....dumb.

The "tired player" thing is way overblown.  These guys thrive on minutes.  Happy New Year.  Glad you are still around.

First. Look. That was just one of the issues. At least for me. Thibs seems a poor tactician at the ends of games.

Second. I was just yelling to bring in another big body near the paint on the foul shot that we KNEW Luka was going to miss. To then see Grimes and McBride leaping in vain to reach that ball (just too short!) was a confirmation I never wanted to see.

Third. The fatigue thing is real. You can see it with your eyes. I love watching McBride on defense. But what, he's played maybe three games this year for more than 20 minutes. And that night he's playing 46? And you don't think it impacts his intensity and concentration?

Energy-wise, last night the whole team looked like it was playing a back-to-back. Minutes matter.
Title: Chamacos drive by
Post by: carlos123 on December 30, 2022, 05:20:23 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on December 30, 2022, 01:48:41 PM
The "tired player" thing is way overblown.  These guys thrive on minutes.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AL9nZEXd3Nec3tQ6T6MkOfKU3z93jT8Ul45OVZYjkSu3FTc539SSNi_MM-dZyQVEOZbE1DRNfk8ILcRq2aiks5TdxDJHeQf4G7juUQ2fszMTRnuwY1zkCx3e7a4CVSgLWLVp7cXGv0Cd3Zj9k0M1MNxSjcq0=w626-h694-no?authuser=0)
Title: Spurs Center
Post by: chipstern on December 30, 2022, 05:56:46 PM
Quote from: elephant on December 30, 2022, 04:29:31 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 30, 2022, 06:10:02 AM
Poeltl is it.

One of Facil's old trades with the Raptors, who used the #1 they got in the Bargnani heist to select the Austrian born center, later flipping JP and DeRozan for Kawhi

You know...maybe.

I was wondering why Mitch seemed to have a relatively weak game. Just much less of a force.

Was it Poeltl?

I don't think Poeltl punked Mitchell.  In fact, MR led the Knicks with a =/- of +9.  Only other Knicks who were a +Plus were McBride and Grimes.  Even with monster games, Julius was a -2, and IQ a -12.  Go figure. 

But JP is a big physical type at 7'1" 265.  And [AND] he has an inside/outside game, needs to be guarded on the perimeter, can put the ball on the floor and go to the rack. 

He has really grown under Pops, good for roughly 1-2 blocks, 3 assists and 10 rebounds a game.

As for last night? 

Spurs really took it to the Knicks, who were a step slow all night long, it seemed.  We were out rebounded.  Spurs were more aggressive in getting to the rack, getting second shots. 

THEIR BENCH OUTPLAYED OURS. 

Pops with a 10 man rotation. 

Thibs with his customary 9. 

Title: A Facil New Years
Post by: chipstern on December 30, 2022, 05:58:11 PM
XMAS has passed and nothing under my tree. 

For new year's? 

A moratorium on Eric Gordon [34] trades. 

Thank you. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 31, 2022, 09:41:13 PM
We leave 2022 with a winning record at 19-18. Here is to a healthy and coherent new year with much winning by the Knicks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 01, 2023, 03:00:35 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 31, 2022, 09:41:13 PM
We leave 2022 with a winning record at 19-18. Here is to a healthy and coherent new year with much winning by the Knicks.

Ups & Downs

Progress

Roster Depth
Nurturing Our Kiddie Korps

All Our Draft Capital

Worth remembering when inevitably we stumble
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: LarryB! on January 02, 2023, 01:28:05 PM
Impressions on the Knicks Pacers trade rumors involving Obi?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 02, 2023, 01:55:55 PM
Quote from: LarryB! on January 02, 2023, 01:28:05 PM
Impressions on the Knicks Pacers trade rumors involving Obi?

Bullshit

AMEND THAT

TOTAL BULLSHIT
Title: Thems The Breaks
Post by: chipstern on January 02, 2023, 03:52:12 PM
No Devin Booker.

Still, a surreal ass kicking.

DAMN
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 02, 2023, 11:08:14 PM
I was thoroughly happy with our start to 2023, and then I saw this lol....


https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/35368827/cavs-donovan-mitchell-scores-franchise-record-71-points-ot-win (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/35368827/cavs-donovan-mitchell-scores-franchise-record-71-points-ot-win)


*** we are run by such hopeless ass-clowns!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 02, 2023, 11:26:17 PM
I can live with Fournier as a reserve small ball power forward in todays NBA. Shades of Steve Novak with all the limitations and basically the same benefits, a less consistent jumper but a better offensive floor game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 02, 2023, 11:28:20 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on January 02, 2023, 11:08:14 PM
I was thoroughly happy with our start to 2023, and then I saw this lol....


https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/35368827/cavs-donovan-mitchell-scores-franchise-record-71-points-ot-win (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/35368827/cavs-donovan-mitchell-scores-franchise-record-71-points-ot-win)


*** we are run by such hopeless ass-clowns!

He scored like that and Chicago took his team to OT. I do not envy Cleveland.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 02, 2023, 11:46:15 PM
lol I envy the f out of Cleveland, not the least they've got two fantastic young closers..we've got Beavis and Butthead.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 03, 2023, 12:05:45 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on January 02, 2023, 11:08:14 PM
I was thoroughly happy with our start to 2023, and then I saw this lol....


https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/35368827/cavs-donovan-mitchell-scores-franchise-record-71-points-ot-win (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/35368827/cavs-donovan-mitchell-scores-franchise-record-71-points-ot-win)


Agreed. But then I gave my silent thanks to the gods that at least it was against the Bulls, and not us.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 03, 2023, 12:36:00 AM
MFer just took the Luka game and swept it into the closet.

=Mitchell with 11 assists accounted for 28 points, giving him a total of 99 points scored or assisted on. The performance trails only Wilt Chamberlains historic 100-point game, in which Wilt was responsible for 104 total points.=

The Cavs are in such a good place.
Title: B&B
Post by: carlos123 on January 03, 2023, 01:05:01 AM
Quote from: Les 🐶 on January 02, 2023, 11:46:15 PM
lol I envy the f out of Cleveland, not the least they've got two fantastic young closers..we've got Beavis and Butthead.

I am a fan of those characters. I am also a fan of Chamaco Cartero.

Anyway, who is our Beavis and who is our Butthead?

Hey doggie🐶, I am glad Mitchell scored 71, so that you are posting again.
Title: Lester Envy
Post by: chipstern on January 03, 2023, 06:32:46 AM
Poor Dawg

Beavis & Butthead

Ah yes, a devoted Knicks fan.
Title: Ya best believe I am....
Post by: lesterluv on January 03, 2023, 11:27:02 AM
and ya always have to preface the phrase with "long-suffering" because of complete motherfucking asshats like Leon Rose.

Mother fucker was begging to come here. A New Yorker begging to come home. And fulfill our destiny.

The price was chips n beans cheap for what you got.

Our larder would not have been stripped...it would have been jammed chock full even after the trade.

And that fake fraud idiot could not bring it home.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 03, 2023, 11:34:59 AM
He's f'n horizontal in traffic when he puts in that putback to send it into OT.

And then, in OT, he lays the hammer down. No ..er...fatigue problems.

Beast. Ridiculous ridiculously talented beast from New York.

That was a generational game....should have happened at the Garden, for the Garden.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 03, 2023, 02:18:05 PM
There is no destiny. We should have drafted him when we could have. You are crying over spilt milk.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 04, 2023, 06:05:03 AM
Word

Let's all chip in and get Les some lube and a box of Kleenex

PS: Leon drafted IQ, Grimes, McBride and Sims.  Phil Jackson passed on Donavan Mitchell to select Frank Ntilikina.
Title: Reality Check
Post by: chipstern on January 04, 2023, 08:45:21 AM
DM had an historic game.

He is a great talent.

Irregardless, Dawg's incessant whining conveniently overlooks the fact that Danny Ainge was looking to leverage the spiritual tumescence of fans the likes of Lester to pressure the Knicks for an asset package commensurate with/or exceeding the Carmelo Debacle.

How'd that work for you , Knicks fans
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 04, 2023, 11:28:11 AM
So back to our existential dilemma. Not looking back. Looking forward. I still don't grasp the justification for keeping Reddish on the bench.

When you have a good NBA team not gifted with a superstar, I always figured your depth is an ASSET.

With Thibs this year, it somehow has become a liability.

And it has made trade prospects absurd. If you trade Reddish, who are we getting with more skills and potential than he has? And where will they play? In short what are the Knicks looking for?

I have no idea.

And even if you (somehow) get a star-like ballplayer like Zach Levine, who I like a lot, where exactly would he go? If he doesn't replace RJ, would he play alongside RJ, bouncing Grimes to the 2nd team squad? That's not something I'd support. I want Grimes starting.

That dude is our best chance in a long, long time for a homegrown NY Knicks star.

In short, why do we need a trade again? Who's out there who will really help us?

I just wish Thibs could more shrewdly use the guys that we have right now.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 04, 2023, 12:44:04 PM
Reddish never got the defensive rotations. For the Knicks of today that is job one.
Title: Re: Reality Check
Post by: lesterluv on January 04, 2023, 01:43:04 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 04, 2023, 08:45:21 AM

Irregardless, Dawg's incessant whining conveniently overlooks the fact that Danny Ainge was looking to leverage the spiritual tumescence of fans the likes of Lester to pressure the Knicks for an asset package commensurate with/or exceeding the Carmelo Debacle.


lmao, the final price was well known and very reasonable. We will regret it forever.

The Carmelo price was very unreasonable (and I pretty much alone presciently opposed it, lol) and we regret it forever.

But in any case, onward (probably to endless debates about whether Eric Gordon is the missing piece:)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 04, 2023, 01:53:37 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 04, 2023, 06:05:03 AM
Word

Let's all chip in and get Les some lube and a box of Kleenex

PS: Leon drafted IQ, Grimes, McBride and Sims.  Phil Jackson passed on Donavan Mitchell to select Frank Ntilikina.

Leon passed on Mitchell for Grimes plus whatever we end up getting with these picks.  Fact.  But its OK - maybe we deal up for Scoot this year.  Heh.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 04, 2023, 01:57:38 PM
And it has made trade prospects absurd. If you trade Reddish, who are we getting with more skills and potential than he has? And where will they play? In short what are the Knicks looking for?


Obviously looking to use Cam and his salary in a package deal for a top player.  If they just wanted to deal him he would be gone to  LA already for a couple second rounders.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 04, 2023, 02:49:03 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 04, 2023, 12:44:04 PM
Reddish never got the defensive rotations. For the Knicks of today that is job one.

Are you sure this is true?

I wasn't a Reddish fanboy. Warmed to him this year for his play. Didn't see him as a defensive liability, but maybe I wasn't looking close enough.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 04, 2023, 02:50:31 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 04, 2023, 01:57:38 PM
And it has made trade prospects absurd. If you trade Reddish, who are we getting with more skills and potential than he has? And where will they play? In short what are the Knicks looking for?


Obviously looking to use Cam and his salary in a package deal for a top player.  If they just wanted to deal him he would be gone to  LA already for a couple second rounders.

Then that begs the question. What top player do they have in mind?
Title: Dawg Pound
Post by: chipstern on January 04, 2023, 03:01:57 PM
You apparently have some "Well Known" information that the rest of us are not privy to.

What is the alleged very reasonable deal Leon turned down?
Title: Super Reasonable!
Post by: lesterluv on January 04, 2023, 03:55:29 PM
Some pretty good reporting had the final deal as RJ + Quick + 3 unprotected

** some versions had us refusing Grimes in place of RJ, Obi replacing Quick, but whatever, all reputable sources had that third unprotected as the bone that stuck in the craw..

We sweating RJ, just a few short weeks removed from being named most damaging player in an NBA starting lineup? **

** to his own team

We sweating Brickely lol...?

We sweating the picks?

Fact: No Donovan Mitchell team has every had a 1st rounder higher than...21, something that doesn't look likely to change this year.

What are we sweating?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 04, 2023, 05:35:08 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 04, 2023, 02:50:31 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 04, 2023, 01:57:38 PM
And it has made trade prospects absurd. If you trade Reddish, who are we getting with more skills and potential than he has? And where will they play? In short what are the Knicks looking for?


Obviously looking to use Cam and his salary in a package deal for a top player.  If they just wanted to deal him he would be gone to  LA already for a couple second rounders.

Then that begs the question. What top player do they have in mind?

Lately reported as Lavine.
Title: Re: Super Reasonable!
Post by: chipstern on January 04, 2023, 05:48:55 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on January 04, 2023, 03:55:29 PM
Some pretty good reporting had the final deal as RJ + Quick + 3 unprotected

** some versions had us refusing Grimes in place of RJ, Obi replacing Quick, but whatever, all reputable sources had that third unprotected as the bone that stuck in the craw..

We sweating RJ, just a few short weeks removed from being named most damaging player in an NBA starting lineup? **

** to his own team

We sweating Brickely lol...?

We sweating the picks?

Fact: No Donovan Mitchell team has every had a 1st rounder higher than...21, something that doesn't look likely to change this year.

What are we sweating?

Your contempt for RJ is well documented.

Three unprotected #1 picks?

Sounds like Ainge.

Love DM, but two unprotected + RJ AND Quickley sounds plenty generous.

I'd be surprised if Ainge wasn't pushing for more players let alone draft picks, based on the Minny and Cavs deals.

I'm content to have turned down Ainge.  And to have erred on the side of caution
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 04, 2023, 10:12:16 PM
6th place bitches!

Fortunately, Thibs got bailed out at the end. His utter inability to manage the final minute continues to amaze.

Meanwhile Mitch is still stumped by the Spur machine. Weird.

Title: Meanwhile
Post by: chipstern on January 04, 2023, 10:13:22 PM
Beavis & Butthead?

Brunson & Randle?

All is not lost.

Spurs gave us fits.

Beavis bailed us out, huh?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 04, 2023, 10:14:41 PM
A win is a win. Glad we got this one. Brunson is finding a nice gear again.

How would we feel about RJ with the second unit when he gets back? It would add punch to our reserves without disrupting the unit that is off to hot starts.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 04, 2023, 10:25:06 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 04, 2023, 10:14:41 PM
A win is a win. Glad we got this one. Brunson is finding a nice gear again.

How would we feel about RJ with the second unit when he gets back? It would add punch to our reserves without disrupting the unit that is off to hot starts.

Thibs has been rotating by pulling RJ early, the inserting him with the second unit, when he sits Julius.

I like the idea of RJ in the Havlichek role [we should be so lucky].

Next three games against Raptors, Bucks and Pacers really tough.
Title: Re: Super Reasonable!
Post by: carlos123 on January 04, 2023, 10:47:16 PM
Quote from: Les 🐶 on January 04, 2023, 03:55:29 PM
Some pretty good reporting had the final deal as RJ + Quick + 3 unprotected

** some versions had us refusing Grimes in place of RJ, Obi replacing Quick, but whatever, all reputable sources had that third unprotected as the bone that stuck in the craw..

We sweating RJ, just a few short weeks removed from being named most damaging player in an NBA starting lineup? **

** to his own team

We sweating Brickely lol...?

We sweating the picks?

Fact: No Donovan Mitchell team has every had a 1st rounder higher than...21, something that doesn't look likely to change this year.

What are we sweating?

Hey, doggie 🐶, relax.

Your boy Donovan only scored 20 today 😁
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 04, 2023, 11:16:29 PM
Just caught the Raptors run to force overtime. Yikes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 05, 2023, 10:28:35 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 04, 2023, 10:14:41 PM
A win is a win. Glad we got this one. Brunson is finding a nice gear again.

Brunson is great.

After all this time, to finally get a point guard like this?

Our best addition in years. He's not a superstar, but if anyone leads us to the promised land, it might just be him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 05, 2023, 03:55:42 PM
Brunson more than holds up his end and he can be part of some very good D. Props all round for that.

I have four starters I am happy with and would not seek to displace and four other rotation guys that I am happy with, warts and all.

The first batch is Mitch, Jules, Grimes, and Brunson. The second batch is RJ, Quickley, Deuce, and Jericho.

I am more or less indifferent toward everyone else on the roster.

Robinson
               Sims
Randle
               Barrett
Grimes
               McBride
Quickley

Brunson

The fact that we manage to cobble another body out of Rose, Fournier, and Hartenstein does not preclude their packaging for some to provide more meaningful individual help.

I am not opposed to muddling through as things are as there are numerous big wings in the upcoming draft. Two swings in the mid to late first round could go a long way toward filling out this roster.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 06, 2023, 08:01:28 AM
Believe you are selling Hartenstein WAY short.

PS: I am all in on the notion of RJ as a sixth man with the second unit and expanding rotation to 10

Robinson, Randle, Grimes, IQ, Brunson

Sims/Hartenstein/Toppin, RJ,
Fournier/Reddish, McBride/Rose

Obviously, RJ & Grimes are interchangeable on first/second units and IQ taking minutes at PG and OffGuard due to his improved efficiency and defense.

Having those two mid first round #1 picks could surely yield some 3&D forwards with wingspan along the lines of Sochan and  Dotson.

Also, is Jokubaitis still in our plans for 2022-23?  Is Keels progressing in the G League?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 06, 2023, 09:06:45 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 04, 2023, 10:14:41 PM


How would we feel about RJ with the second unit when he gets back? It would add punch to our reserves without disrupting the unit that is off to hot starts.

We would feel fantastic about that. That's where he should have been all along.
Title: Yikes
Post by: chipstern on January 06, 2023, 09:56:37 PM
Perils of Pauline
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 06, 2023, 10:27:29 PM
Knicks flirting with disaster again near the end of the game?

Check.

Thibs deciding then to go with 4 guards on the floor with some 45 seconds to go.

Interesting.

For once then, something.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 06, 2023, 11:10:47 PM
The Raps are doing runs late.

They found one again, just not big enough to overcome the Knicks.

This was big to come away with.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 07, 2023, 10:30:04 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 06, 2023, 11:10:47 PM
The Raps are doing runs late.

They found one again, just not big enough to overcome the Knicks.

This was big to come away with.

I was impressed with the Raptors tenacious full court pressing D at the games end.  Forced turnovers, took us out of rhythm

No Brunson?

No win.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 07, 2023, 12:42:28 PM
Yeah, they're tough at game's end
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 07, 2023, 03:50:20 PM
We needed all our pieces.

Mitch 18 rebound double double.

Randle cracking 30 and 10 as bell cow.

Double figures from IQ and Quick.

Deuce, Sims, Hart, and Fournier all chipped in.

Yes. Brunson clearly leads it all.

Good players in good roles more or less on the same page makes for a good team.

We are on our way.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 08, 2023, 07:17:33 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 07, 2023, 03:50:20 PM
We needed all our pieces.

Mitch 18 rebound double double.

Randle cracking 30 and 10 as bell cow.

Double figures from IQ and Quick.

Deuce, Sims, Hart, and Fournier all chipped in.

Yes. Brunson clearly leads it all.

Good players in good roles more or less on the same page makes for a good team.

We are on our way.

Progress

I'm curious how we will fare against the Nyets in our next matchup, as they are on a tear.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 09, 2023, 04:34:38 PM
well, we just caught a huge break there...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 10, 2023, 03:47:49 AM
That was a bummer. We stayed in it as we fell apart.

We need RJ back.
 
I home the return of Obi does not mean the banishment of Sims.

It is nice to hit the midpoint positive in wins despite the tough loss.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 10, 2023, 05:18:48 AM
Keaton got smacked by that train in the end, despite some of his best shenanigans.

You know who has performed well against the bucks in a recent playoff series?

Cam Reddish.

Thibs purgatory is deep and hellish.
Title: Bitter & Suite
Post by: chipstern on January 10, 2023, 09:38:12 AM
So many good things.

Bucks responded like Champs, and we couldn't close out on the three.

Watching Brunson is remarkable
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 10, 2023, 10:07:07 AM
It's remarkable, but very predictable.

This is like the 8th such game this season.

There is a hard cap on us as coached and structured.

While I appreciate the cohesiveness on D the short rotation has brought us, when your offensive is so reductive, league low 16 assists last night, your ISO players better have legs at the end. They never do. And we are well figured out by then anyway.

Unless Thibs builds and uses a bench mob, and spices things up to make better use of the underused offensive talents we have, we'll see this again and again.
Title: Thibs says
Post by: carlos123 on January 10, 2023, 10:24:26 AM
Quote from: Fac on January 10, 2023, 03:47:49 AM

I hope the return of Obi does not mean the banishment of Sims.


that 9 is 9. Actually 8.5

Hope no more.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 10, 2023, 10:24:34 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on January 10, 2023, 10:07:07 AM
It's remarkable, but very predictable.

This is like the 8th such game this season.

There is a hard cap on us as coached and structured.

While I appreciate the cohesiveness on D the short rotation has brought us, when your offensive is so reductive, league low 16 assists last night, your ISO players better have legs at the end. They never do. And we are well figured out by then anyway.

Unless Thibs build and uses a bench mob, and spices things up to make better use of the underused offensive talents we have, we'll see this again and again.

Fair
Assessment

Out Of Gas

⛽️
Title: Takeaways
Post by: chipstern on January 10, 2023, 10:25:46 AM
So many good things.

Bucks responded like Champs, and we couldn't close out on the three.

Watching Brunson is remarkable

Like the difference between an automatic transmission and a manual, as Jalen always seems to be down shifting to a slower tempo.

Crushing loss, but I am not crushed.

IQ keeps raising his game on both ends.  Obi with some positive minutes on offense and defense.

We surely do miss RJ on D and for the pressure he puts on teams to guard the paint.

Our D was sundered in the fourth, and, inevitably you live by the three, you die by the three.

Bucks lived

Knicks died
Title: Replacement?
Post by: carlos123 on January 10, 2023, 10:34:57 AM
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AL9nZEWZS3jKMw4q48AGd9UEFeJ_VFUT3JMesyYNSjKzgqodWPohnImDYSJOgBIB_BkVlT3Z2OzRMlf5AmawXX4o_rJnZsBlT4lLBfxdX3IAt5TdlWAi-WYMYsWMCNTysjf6atKunWVIvRF4cIeJ_3wzuR0i=w830-h468-no?authuser=0)

One chopped head.
Three replacement candidates.
One nice doggie licking Thibs wounds.

PS. Fac, the only image I have for you is the Ukrainian woman.
Title: Re: Takeaways
Post by: lesterluv on January 10, 2023, 01:43:59 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 10, 2023, 10:25:46 AM

We surely do miss RJ on D and for the pressure he puts on teams to guard the paint.


Maybe the latter, but surely you are kidding about the former, his defense is woeful!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 10, 2023, 02:40:39 PM
I emerged optimistic. It really feels to me like we're getting there.

So many guys are developing before our eyes.

Brunson IS "remarkable," as Chip put it. And IQ was fucking brilliant for much of the game.

(The rest of the Knicks shot 25%!)

Indeed, this IQ/Brunson combo, born of RJ's injury, is really intriguing.....
Title: Jalen & Clyde
Post by: chipstern on January 10, 2023, 08:30:30 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 10, 2023, 02:40:39 PM
I emerged optimistic. It really feels to me like we're getting there.

So many guys are developing before our eyes.

Brunson IS "remarkable," as Chip put it. And IQ was fucking brilliant for much of the game.

(The rest of the Knicks shot 25%!)

Indeed, this IQ/Brunson combo, born of RJ's injury, is really intriguing.....

Okay, this is a big stretch...maybe

But Jalen reminds me of Clyde. 

Do tell? 

That downshifting thang.  Clyde established very purposeful tempos, and there was a sense of certainty, a deliberate way he had of getting the team--and himself--into our offense.   

His offensive acumen last night, his abillity to create shots, was breathtaking. 

In terms of our TEAM evolution?

There were not many assists last night. 

There was a tendency for cats to kind of station themselves at thee three point markers, rather than function as cutters, setting screens, moving without the ball, passing the rock with decisiveness. 

Brunson was so automatic, there was a tendency to stand around and watch. 

We need to create pressure on the glass. 

Julius has had a great stretch, but last night was the first time his treys were like dying quails, and it took him too long to adjust, though he did in the third quarter. 

Trouble is, the Bucks hunkered down and remembered that they were a defensive juggernaut, and one of the leading three point shooting teams in the league. 

Even so, we were in it down to the wire. 

I loves me some Jrue Holiday.  He is a real gamer.  As poor as he started, come crunch time, HE SHOWED UP. 

A lesson for our Knicks to learn from. 

Of course, while Thibs' 9-man thang has led us to a post-500% record at the midpoint of the season, come the final five minutes, we seem to be...GASSED. 

Some adjustments are in order. 

Onwards.

PS: Disagree with Dawg on RJ's defense.  Anyway, he's almost back, so we shall see.
Title: IQ
Post by: chipstern on January 10, 2023, 08:45:10 PM
Quick has been a force, on and off the ball, and on defense. 

Philly took Quick's fellow Kentucky stud, TMax, at #21. 

The Knicks, at the fervent urging of World Wise Wide, took IQ at #25. 

No, neither are of a piece with Donovan Mitchell, but solid two way players.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: LarryB! on January 11, 2023, 01:02:31 AM
There was a tendency for cats to kind of station themselves at thee three point markers, rather than function as cutters, setting screens, moving without the ball, passing the rock with decisiveness.

That takes energy.

It makes sense to shorten the rotation if you are playing in late April but not if you are grinding your squad into the dust in mid January.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 11, 2023, 08:05:32 AM
More starter minutes - and the starters are our life source.
Title: Szerbiak Fucked Up Big Time
Post by: chipstern on January 11, 2023, 10:16:29 AM
Haliburton, great player and exemplary cat, is going to make Knicks pay for Wally's inexplicable post game diss last time out
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 11, 2023, 11:04:18 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 11, 2023, 08:05:32 AM
More starter minutes - and the starters are our life source.

Well, I mean, if you get off on watching one 4th quarter fail after another, I guess that's your thing!


*** if you do want to keep 40 minutes++ of starters, at the very least you better switch the attackers, run a play or two in the 4th...
Title: I am the Spokesperson
Post by: carlos123 on January 11, 2023, 03:28:53 PM
Quote from: Les🐶 on January 11, 2023, 11:04:18 AM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on January 11, 2023, 08:05:32 AM
More starter minutes - and the starters are our life source.

Well, I mean, if you get off on watching one 4th quarter fail after another, I guess that's your thing!


*** if you do want to keep 40 minutes++ of starters, at the very least you better switch the attackers, run a play or two in the 4th...

As Chamacos Spokesperson, I already told you about this a few days ago.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AL9nZEXukviND0DqxdqUvHxsEdy8zxYO2JrZMOMgGFrUzm-oyhLpJJ3F8sgV7sVJ7PZuHjBxCSOsegD55uQL4t5nBOle3hJWJqJ66ZRekrWN7dfK1O81QXYGxeKC7YOpl2zmQj-FnIN6nk8NLG5KfHwaATX3=w626-h694-no?authuser=0)
Title: Jeff Beck, RIP
Post by: chipstern on January 11, 2023, 09:01:17 PM
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-opZWb8ihvs0/XrpVi0rdp5I/AAAAAAABUiw/N6xKjUx15NgQKFdSLViyuHEUfo8PqYDzACK4BGAsYHg/jb%2Bcover%2B2.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 11, 2023, 09:01:50 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on January 11, 2023, 11:04:18 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on January 11, 2023, 08:05:32 AM
More starter minutes - and the starters are our life source.

Well, I mean, if you get off on watching one 4th quarter fail after another, I guess that's your thing!


*** if you do want to keep 40 minutes++ of starters, at the very least you better switch the attackers, run a play or two in the 4th...

JAGoFF....

Or

Prophet

Stop

He's two mints in one.

Okay Thibs

Let's see what you've got, MF
Title: Don't Foul OR Give Up The Three
Post by: chipstern on January 11, 2023, 09:53:32 PM
RJ

With the trifecta
Title: Re: Don't Foul OR Give Up The Three
Post by: chipstern on January 11, 2023, 09:54:18 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 11, 2023, 09:53:32 PM
RJ

With the trifecta

STUMBLING AND BUMBLING
Title: Re: Don't Foul OR Give Up The Three
Post by: chipstern on January 11, 2023, 09:58:53 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 11, 2023, 09:54:18 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 11, 2023, 09:53:32 PM
RJ

With the trifecta

STUMBLING AND BUMBLING

The Perils Of Pauline

QUENTIN GRIMES

[WHEWWWWWW]
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: LarryB! on January 11, 2023, 10:03:11 PM
Damn!

Almost snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 11, 2023, 10:40:20 PM
The fine art of keeping our act together still needs to be developed in this team.

Not completely falling apart is a good thing and outlasting a component opponent in a revenge game is not to be sneezed at.

IQ got his down time after clocking all those emergency minutes.

Could there have been a role for Jericho this game? I see the logic of going big reserve on big reserve.
Title: You see it
Post by: carlos123 on January 12, 2023, 01:16:31 AM
Quote from: Fac on January 11, 2023, 10:40:20 PM

Could there have been a role for Jericho this game? I see the logic of going big reserve on big reserve.

You do, but not Chamaco or his friend Thibs.
Title: Re: You see it
Post by: facilitatorn on January 12, 2023, 12:18:46 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 12, 2023, 01:16:31 AM
Quote from: Fac on January 11, 2023, 10:40:20 PM

Could there have been a role for Jericho this game? I see the logic of going big reserve on big reserve.

You do, but not Chamaco or his friend Thibs.

It is never wise to speak for twisty Kid, but Thibs did go big on big using Hartenstein on Bitaze, two guys of similar size instead of the smaller but more athletic Sims.

I think the pace Sims brings to game brings out better play from our second unit in most cases. We will have to see how things develop going forward.
Title: Thibs Rotations
Post by: chipstern on January 12, 2023, 01:27:31 PM
TT is now down to a 6-man rotation.

Alert the admissions nurse at Mount Sinai. 

Jalen, RJ, Julius, Mitchell, Quentin and IQ.

Obi and IH?

Nine minutes.

Deuce?

Six.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 12, 2023, 02:21:25 PM
Hey we pulled it off. Barely. Against a team down its top three starters at the end. Reminded me of one of those wins against cripple teams during the streak, but a win is a win!

RJ looked good, offensively, he wasn't challenged too much cause Indy had no shot blocker and the defense was very focused on Julius & Brunson, but taking advantage of that is a legit and needed role.

Of course, think everybody looked better until their 35th minute or so, but wtf do I and every other NBA coach beside Thibs know....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: LarryB! on January 12, 2023, 04:10:07 PM
Knicks starters gonna be gassed by early April
Title: Credit Where Credit Is Due
Post by: chipstern on January 12, 2023, 10:55:18 PM
Think we have to credit Coach Jason Kidd with some pride of paternity in the evolution of Brunson's game.

And it didn't hurt to play with that Doncic fellow.

🎱🐾🎱
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 13, 2023, 11:03:21 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on January 12, 2023, 02:21:25 PM
Hey we pulled it off. Barely. Against a team down its top three starters at the end. Reminded me of one of those wins against cripple teams during the streak, but a win is a win!

RJ looked good, offensively, he wasn't challenged too much cause Indy had no shot blocker and the defense was very focused on Julius & Brunson, but taking advantage of that is a legit and needed role.

Of course, think everybody looked better until their 35th minute or so, but wtf do I and every other NBA coach beside Thibs know....

Befuddles me, now that Thibs is down to SIX.

But we are tied for the 6 seed with Indy, so WhatTheFuck.
Title: WTF
Post by: carlos123 on January 13, 2023, 07:14:58 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 13, 2023, 11:03:21 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on January 12, 2023, 02:21:25 PM
Hey we pulled it off. Barely. Against a team down its top three starters at the end. Reminded me of one of those wins against cripple teams during the streak, but a win is a win!

RJ looked good, offensively, he wasn't challenged too much cause Indy had no shot blocker and the defense was very focused on Julius & Brunson, but taking advantage of that is a legit and needed role.

Of course, think everybody looked better until their 35th minute or so, but wtf do I and every other NBA coach beside Thibs know....

Befuddles me, now that Thibs is down to SIX.

But we are tied for the 6 seed with Indy, so WhatTheFuck.

WTF? One problem is that a 6-man rotation is not sustainable.

Short term, we are gassed in the 4th. Later on, it will probably mean injuries and players gassed all the time.
Title: Yikes
Post by: chipstern on January 13, 2023, 09:24:24 PM
Another fourth quarter fade.

Can we hang on.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 13, 2023, 10:12:44 PM
It looks like we could use some help. We did manage to hang on. Brunson and Randle continue to prove their worth.

I do not think the Washington pick will convey this year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 13, 2023, 11:45:04 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 13, 2023, 10:12:44 PM
It looks like we could use some help. We did manage to hang on. Brunson and Randle continue to prove their worth.

I do not think the Washington pick will convey this year.

We have Reddish, Rose and Fournier on ice.

Help?

More consistency.

Fresher legs in the 4th
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 14, 2023, 01:52:03 PM
I
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 14, 2023, 02:00:05 PM
I know he's overcome a ton of injuries, that he apparently has been playing well this year, that he prob just had an extra off game against us...but

I'm still befuddled that Kristaps still hasn't developed anything resembling a go-to move.
Title: U what?
Post by: carlos123 on January 14, 2023, 05:46:34 PM
Quote from: Fac on January 14, 2023, 01:52:03 PM
I

You what???

PS. Fuk KP, and his brother-agent too.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 14, 2023, 07:54:20 PM
I hear the market is pretty dry for Cam. I hope he can figure out what is expected of him and get back in good graces. We could use the speed and length he brings if he can find the focus Thibs wants. He was better in his 20 games this year than in the fifteen he played for us last year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 14, 2023, 08:12:20 PM
Or Cam Reddish and a not so valuable pick to Minnesota for Taurean Prince.

Their minutes and stats are nearly identical this year except for games played. Prince is under contract another year and I think Thibs would like him enough to use him with the second unit.

I do not know what the plan is in the twin cities. Cam could theoretically become more valuable than Prince down the line. Prince would be good for us now.

Mitch Hartenstein
Randle Obi
RJ Prince
Grimes Deuce
Brunson Quickley
Title: Cam
Post by: carlos123 on January 14, 2023, 09:48:29 PM
Quote from: Fac on January 14, 2023, 07:54:20 PM
I hear the market is pretty dry for Cam. I hope he can figure out what is expected of him and get back in good graces. We could use the speed and length he brings if he can find the focus Thibs wants. He was better in his 20 games this year than in the fifteen he played for us last year.

Fac, thanks for answering my question.

I think the solution is not for Cam to figure out what Thibs wants, but for the Knicks to figure out that they need another coach. And obviously not just for not playing Cam.
Title: Re: Cam
Post by: chipstern on January 14, 2023, 11:04:10 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 14, 2023, 09:48:29 PM
Quote from: Fac on January 14, 2023, 07:54:20 PM
I hear the market is pretty dry for Cam. I hope he can figure out what is expected of him and get back in good graces. We could use the speed and length he brings if he can find the focus Thibs wants. He was better in his 20 games this year than in the fifteen he played for us last year.

Fac, thanks for answering my question.

I think the solution is not for Cam to figure out what Thibs wants, but for the Knicks to figure out that they need another coach. And obviously not just for not playing Cam.

I have issues with Thibs...

But your obsession has grown progressively more tiresome, compadre.

We are alone in the sixth spot in the eastern playoff hunt and you want to fire Thibs because Cam can't get playing time and because you don't tlike Thibs short rotation and his offensive zeitgeist.

Grow up.
Title: Grow up
Post by: carlos123 on January 15, 2023, 01:29:50 AM
Quote from: chipstern on January 14, 2023, 11:04:10 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 14, 2023, 09:48:29 PM
Quote from: Fac on January 14, 2023, 07:54:20 PM
I hear the market is pretty dry for Cam. I hope he can figure out what is expected of him and get back in good graces. We could use the speed and length he brings if he can find the focus Thibs wants. He was better in his 20 games this year than in the fifteen he played for us last year.

Fac, thanks for answering my question.

I think the solution is not for Cam to figure out what Thibs wants, but for the Knicks to figure out that they need another coach. And obviously not just for not playing Cam.

I have issues with Thibs...

But your obsession has grown progressively more tiresome, compadre.

We are alone in the sixth spot in the eastern playoff hunt and you want to fire Thibs because Cam can't get playing time and because you don't tlike Thibs short rotation and his offensive zeitgeist.

Grow up.

Grow up to follow Dear Leader Chipirin?

No thanks, meshuga.

Your positive pussiness is growing tiresome as well.

Grow up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 15, 2023, 01:38:01 AM
Top ten in offensive rating, defensive rating, and differential.

The points of emphasis are limit paint scoring allowed, rebound on both ends, and limit turnovers. We do all three. As our players gel their shooting percentages are all going up.

I cannot think of another coach likely to achieve that with the personnel we have.

You have to let Thibs play out the season at the very least.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 15, 2023, 03:11:13 PM
 So sorry.

SO Sorry that a winning  record, incremental improvement and actually being in the playoff hunt  as opposed to the play in consolation prize doesn't align with your thoughtful  narrative wherein we anniont the Earthly Remains of Mike Miller, just arrived from Calvary Hill, to lend his signature coaching mastery to a Knicks squad clearly in a viral descent. 

Knock yourself out, homie.
Title: Thanks Fac
Post by: carlos123 on January 15, 2023, 03:40:34 PM
Quote from: Fac on January 15, 2023, 01:38:01 AM
Top ten in offensive rating, defensive rating, and differential.

The points of emphasis are limit paint scoring allowed, rebound on both ends, and limit turnovers. We do all three. As our players gel their shooting percentages are all going up.

I cannot think of another coach likely to achieve that with the personnel we have.

You have to let Thibs play out the season at the very least.

See, you make your points without being unpleasant like meshuga Chipirin.

My main complaint about Thibs, in addition to being unable to design a coherent play when needed, is that a 6 or 7 man rotation is not sustainable. How long can Randle and Brunson keep playing 40 minutes a game?

And what happened with the development we were seeing in players like Obi, Cam or Sims?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 15, 2023, 03:50:36 PM
Meanwhile....

Randle is playing the best ball of his life.

Wild to see.

We'll see what he has in the tank tomorrow.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 15, 2023, 03:51:49 PM
And isn't the improvement in IQ's game obvious?

He's gonna have a good long career. Does so many things.
Title: IQ
Post by: carlos123 on January 15, 2023, 04:40:16 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 15, 2023, 03:51:49 PM
And isn't the improvement in IQ's game obvious?

He's gonna have a good long career. Does so many things.

True, our 6th man is doing really well, actually playing more minutes than RJ, for the time being.
Title: Point Counterpoint
Post by: chipstern on January 15, 2023, 08:41:13 PM
Sustainable?

K

Still...

Grimes and IQ sprouting before our eyes.  Check their minutes and RJ's today.  Almost as if RJ were a sixth man.

Randle playing at a new peak.  Hit all his FTs and only 1 turnover.  Again, he and Brunson carried us. I know...only the Pistons

We are 25-19.  And I'm supposed to be grinding my teeth over Obi and Cam.

Their time may come or it may not.

Anyone here who had us in the sixth spot at the halfway point?

Does Thibs get any credit for that.

Of course not.  Were succeeding in spite of him. 

Got you.
Title: "Check their minutes and RJ's today"
Post by: carlos123 on January 15, 2023, 09:21:43 PM
I just did, in the post immediately before yours.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 15, 2023, 10:19:10 PM
Jules is logging 24th in mpg league wide. Barrett is 34th and Brunson is 43rd. The next Knick on the list is Grimes at 95th.

That is 35, 34, 33, and 29 minutes respectively.

It is nice to have four guys worth playing that much and all at different positions so they can play together. Mitch would be getting that run as well if he could stay on the floor.

Quickley did not see so much time till Thibs found this rotation, but he is getting the burn now.

Thibs has made his priorities known, defense, rebounding, taking care of the ball and staying connected. I do not have a reason to think his minute distribution is not based on what he sees being performed in these areas. Thibs is not trying to build every player on the roster the best possible career. He is trying to win the games he can with the guys here he thinks can play his way.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: LarryB! on January 15, 2023, 10:44:25 PM
Watching the game today I saw the players were locked in on Thibs.

It seems the folks who should believe in Thibs, do.
Title: Minutes
Post by: carlos123 on January 16, 2023, 12:17:16 AM
Quote from: Fac on January 15, 2023, 10:19:10 PM
Jules is logging 24th in mpg league wide. Barrett is 34th and Brunson is 43rd. The next Knick on the list is Grimes at 95th.

That is 35, 34, 33, and 29 minutes respectively.


I am pretty sure those minutes are the average for the season, are they not?

They would be dramatically different if you did the math since Thibs discovered his quote unquote 9 man rotation about a month ago.

I hope I am wrong and Randle and Brunson do not collapse, get too gassed to keep playing well or get hurt before seasons end. We shall see, shall we not?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 16, 2023, 02:59:38 AM
If you want to chew through box scores to get a more recent number, I will not question your results. I do not think it will be that far off.
Title: Mister Thibs & Mister Daboll
Post by: chipstern on January 16, 2023, 12:27:06 PM
Not surprisingly, Coach Daboll is Thibs kind of guy.

Great game.

Daniel Jones finally getting respect.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 16, 2023, 12:27:54 PM
Quote from: LarryB! on January 15, 2023, 10:44:25 PM
Watching the game today I saw the players were locked in on Thibs.

It seems the folks who should believe in Thibs, do.

This is a good point.

While NBA players are always mouthing the affirmative party line about their coaches, I agree that they genuinely seem to trust and respect the guy.
Title: Julius
Post by: chipstern on January 16, 2023, 12:29:10 PM
Really proud of Julius.

Teams won't be able to deploy a McMillian strategy, because his game has evolved and because of that  run-on fellow.
Title: Raptors
Post by: chipstern on January 16, 2023, 12:30:38 PM
A real test today.

Raptors have our number.

Let's see what we've learned.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 16, 2023, 12:31:23 PM
And you see the tremendous work and desire.

Good dude to root for.

Speaking of good dudes, hope we find a new place for Rose soon. There's no room for him on this team, but he could still be an incredible asset for another playoff team (hopefully out west).
Title: Sats for you
Post by: carlos123 on January 16, 2023, 02:47:59 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 16, 2023, 02:59:38 AM
If you want to chew through box scores to get a more recent number, I will not question your results. I do not think it will be that far off.

Last 10 games, December 27 to yesterday:
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/julius-randle-stats-each-game-last-10-games (https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/julius-randle-stats-each-game-last-10-games) Julius Randle 40.3 minutes average against your 35.
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/jalen-brunson-stats-each-game-last-10-games (https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/jalen-brunson-stats-each-game-last-10-games) Jalen Brunson 39.2 minutes average against your 33.

Looks like my eyes were not lying to me.

No doubt the team is playing well, lets hope they can keep it up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 16, 2023, 04:46:45 PM
Right now he just has 5 points in the second half.

But I'm still tempted to say again:

Grimes does EVERYTHING.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 16, 2023, 06:10:31 PM
Bummer.

We have to decide if we want to be as good as we can with what we have right now, get some play in-playoff experience and look for an x-factor and a swing piece with our pick and the Dallas pick in the upcoming draft or if we want to leverage some assets for someone who can help us in the 7-8-9 spot.

Precious and Boucher won the battle of bench bigs today. Should Thibs have gone to Sims? Is there a player we could acquire who could help us with those type matchups? Do we just wait for Obi to get better at it?

Even with those issues, a Randle or Burnson FT going in rather than out wins it for us.

Onward, but with better results.
Title: Re: Sats for you
Post by: facilitatorn on January 16, 2023, 06:13:31 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 16, 2023, 02:47:59 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 16, 2023, 02:59:38 AM
If you want to chew through box scores to get a more recent number, I will not question your results. I do not think it will be that far off.

Last 10 games, December 27 to yesterday:
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/julius-randle-stats-each-game-last-10-games (https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/julius-randle-stats-each-game-last-10-games) Julius Randle 40.3 minutes average against your 35.
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/jalen-brunson-stats-each-game-last-10-games (https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/jalen-brunson-stats-each-game-last-10-games) Jalen Brunson 39.2 minutes average against your 33.

Looks like my eyes were not lying to me.

No doubt the team is playing well, lets hope they can keep it up.

Yup. You are right. That is going to be hard to keep up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 16, 2023, 06:27:31 PM
This minutes issue with Thibs is not going to go away. The coach is a major factor in both our wins and losses.

It was a back to back for fuck's sake. Brunson hit a wall. Here's the thing I don't get: We have talent on the bench!

Why can't he trust some of these motherfuckers and figure out how to make it work.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 16, 2023, 06:28:42 PM
Brunson's shot goes in at the end, I'd be saying the same thing.

The game did not have to go down to the wire.
Title: Guess What?
Post by: chipstern on January 16, 2023, 07:40:45 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 16, 2023, 06:27:31 PM
This minutes issue with Thibs is not going to go away. The coach is a major factor in both our wins and losses.

It was a back to back for fuck's sake. Brunson hit a wall. Here's the thing I don't get: We have talent on the bench!

Why can't he trust some of these motherfuckers and figure out how to make it work.

Toronto played their main men big minutes as well

GUESS WHAT

Thibs played nine.  Nurse played nine

Guess What?

Raptors are a good team

We lost by a basket
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 16, 2023, 09:16:04 PM
How many game winners missed now by Brunson?  Is it five?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 16, 2023, 09:17:37 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 16, 2023, 06:28:42 PM
Brunson's shot goes in at the end, I'd be saying the same thing.

The game did not have to go down to the wire.

If only we were playing a team without any good players...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 16, 2023, 09:27:05 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 16, 2023, 09:16:04 PM
How many game winners missed now by Brunson?  Is it five?

It's a PROCESS.

How do you not get that?

Do you think the guy is a choker, is that it? A loser?

He's already proven himself again and again. Now he's in the process of proving himself on the highest stage, as a go-to star.

I'm sorry that's not working out according to your schedule. But if you can't see what this guy is becoming, I can't help you.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 16, 2023, 09:32:22 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 16, 2023, 09:16:04 PM
How many game winners missed now by Brunson?  Is it five?

You are

SUCH A LOSER
Title: Re: Guess What?
Post by: elephant on January 16, 2023, 09:33:34 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 16, 2023, 07:40:45 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 16, 2023, 06:27:31 PM
This minutes issue with Thibs is not going to go away. The coach is a major factor in both our wins and losses.

It was a back to back for fuck's sake. Brunson hit a wall. Here's the thing I don't get: We have talent on the bench!

Why can't he trust some of these motherfuckers and figure out how to make it work.

Toronto played their main men big minutes as well

GUESS WHAT

Thibs played nine.  Nurse played nine

Guess What?

Raptors are a good team

We lost by a basket

It's silly to have this argument again and again. I'm neither saying Thibs is terrible, nor am I blaming the loss on him.

Toronto is 20-24. They are a good team. But we're better. And it's becoming obvious how good we can be.

So we're just talking about how and why we seem to be losing the same way again and again. It's a creative question, not a dumb complaint. You look for adjustments. When you don't see them, it's not a crime to point it out.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 16, 2023, 09:43:31 PM
Point taken.

PS

Raptors are better than their record.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 16, 2023, 09:45:07 PM
We should be as well. I like it better on nights when we are.

I would still rather see if Hartenstein, Sims, Obi, and Deuce can approach the level of iQ and the starters than shuffle pieces to see if a new guy would fit in.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: LarryB! on January 16, 2023, 10:34:37 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 16, 2023, 09:16:04 PM
How many game winners missed now by Brunson?  Is it five?

The guy should be able to go 48 a night the lazy Bastia!
Title: Kiidy Korn
Post by: chipstern on January 17, 2023, 09:20:20 AM
Forum Douche Nozzle Kiid's look at me Ma naysaying on Jalen Brunson is of a piece with his longstanding pisstakes on Jayson Tatum and his insistence that Ainge blew it and that JT was an overrated bum, followed in short order for those who cannot read or lacking in retentive memory, that he was ahead of the popular bell curve in his supportive insights.

Fuck U Asshole
Title: Re: Guess What?
Post by: lesterluv on January 17, 2023, 11:49:58 AM
Quote from: chipstern on January 16, 2023, 07:40:45 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 16, 2023, 06:27:31 PM
This minutes issue with Thibs is not going to go away. The coach is a major factor in both our wins and losses.....

.....

Thibs played nine.  Nurse played nine....


So lesterdawg headed to the Mecca yesterday for the first time in a longtime with littledawgs and friendawgs to check out this thing in person.

And for three and half quarters, was very pleased with what we have created, this focused, cohesive, well-coached unit giving effort end-to-end, very much in control over a similar, but apparently ever-so-slightly-less offensively gifted Toronto unit.

Then, like clockwork, for the umpteenth time this season it started to go wrong at the 5 minute mark.

Possession after possession, Brunson, Randle & Barrett decided to forego passing and go it alone (one single kickout to Grimes for a three excepted) just around the time their legs were going. They failed each and every time. They also ended up chucking it over two or three defenders each time because Nurse and the Raptors are not idiots and knew exactly what's coming.

RJ's coast-to-coast was electrifying, almost saved us, wow, you want to be in the Garden for those moments! But wasted. We were so gassed in OT.

You can be appreciative of what Thibs has made, but still fully understand there is a hard ceiling on this team unless he, or the personnel changes. Our game is so reductive..29 shots and 43 mins for Brunson? You've got to be kidding. He is a gem, and a joy, but he is no...Donovan Mitchell lol, especially in the second game of a back to back. Use the bench, Thibs, but even more importantly, keep moving the F-ing ball.

Nurse def outcoached him, maybe his guys played big minutes too, but they kept swinging it and playing basketball til the end. Would not hesitate to lay down bucks on the Raptors if we met in the playoffs.

Title: Dawg
Post by: chipstern on January 17, 2023, 12:07:12 PM
Good critique
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 17, 2023, 12:53:06 PM
And to be clear, the above is a glass half full post...

The season is barely halfway over, a foundation laid, plenty of room and a trade deadline ahead for improvement, we walked away disappointed of course, but not disenchanted. They gave us some pretty good hoops.

Clearly everybody on that court buys in completely. Can they and their coach get smarter and better? Is that the next level? Or, is Thibs doomed to Thibs forever.

* Watching Julius was something else, his focus and effort and attitude the mirror-opposite of last year, can I get the name of his therapist?

** If Thibs is gonna Thibs forever, the Knicks should exercise common decency and trade Obi while he still has a career ahead of him.

*** Next level for RJ, and I'll give it up a bit for his incremental improvement in finishing and shot selection, has to be better court vision. The one time Obi cut baseline corner to corner, wide open under the hoop, RJ missed it...it was glaring from our cheap seats. But I'm happy with progress, as long as it keeps progressing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 17, 2023, 01:21:05 PM
Amen to all this.
Title: Re: Guess What?
Post by: LarryB! on January 17, 2023, 04:47:17 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on January 17, 2023, 11:49:58 AM
Quote from: chipstern on January 16, 2023, 07:40:45 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 16, 2023, 06:27:31 PM
This minutes issue with Thibs is not going to go away. The coach is a major factor in both our wins and losses.....

.....

Thibs played nine.  Nurse played nine....


So lesterdawg headed to the Mecca yesterday for the first time in a longtime with littledawgs and friendawgs to check out this thing in person.

And for three and half quarters, was very pleased with what we have created, this focused, cohesive, well-coached unit giving effort end-to-end, very much in control over a similar, but apparently ever-so-slightly-less offensively gifted Toronto unit.

Then, like clockwork, for the umpteenth time this season it started to go wrong at the 5 minute mark.

Possession after possession, Brunson, Randle & Barrett decided to forego passing and go it alone (one single kickout to Grimes for a three excepted) just around the time their legs were going. They failed each and every time. They also ended up chucking it over two or three defenders each time because Nurse and the Raptors are not idiots and knew exactly what's coming.

RJ's coast-to-coast was electrifying, almost saved us, wow, you want to be in the Garden for those moments! But wasted. We were so gassed in OT.

You can be appreciative of what Thibs has made, but still fully understand there is a hard ceiling on this team unless he, or the personnel changes. Our game is so reductive..29 shots and 43 mins for Brunson? You've got to be kidding. He is a gem, and a joy, but he is no...Donovan Mitchell lol, especially in the second game of a back to back. Use the bench, Thibs, but even more importantly, keep moving the F-ing ball.

Nurse def outcoached him, maybe his guys played big minutes too, but they kept swinging it and playing basketball til the end. Would not hesitate to lay down bucks on the Raptors if we met in the playoffs.
Title: CAM
Post by: chipstern on January 18, 2023, 12:09:44 PM
👀🎱👀
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 18, 2023, 02:30:45 PM
The Reddish thing is frustrating.

He's 23, talented, and has potential to be an impactful player.

I was skeptical about him. But his early play really brought me around. And then....out of nowhere, relegated to Siberia. Thibs somehow could not find a way to use him.

So who could we get that's better?

Answer no one. But if the stories are true, we'll get Bullock back who plays good Thibs defense (though with a more limited offensive game).

In the Thibs universe, I suspect this is the best we can get.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 18, 2023, 06:08:27 PM
Thibs universe?

Thibodeax isn't running the acquisitions department

Fournier and Rose for Westbrook being bandied about.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 18, 2023, 06:45:47 PM
The idea of Bullock for Reddish is so moronic.

Reggie cannot create off the bounce

His three point shooting has fallen way off. 

His D is no better than Reddish

I have no interest in Bullock.

Alec Burks?

Detroit is Quite Happy with him.   

Unless a #1 pick is coming back, I see no reason to gift Reddish to the Mavs, Lakers or whomever.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 18, 2023, 08:14:45 PM
Agree, Chip. But then who are they trying to get for him?

They certainly haven't raised his value by gluing him to the bench for two months.
Title: OY VEY
Post by: chipstern on January 18, 2023, 08:21:46 PM
🤡🎱🤡
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 18, 2023, 09:57:09 PM
Terrible game. Wiz the better team tonight.

And Lester is right. It's painful to see the way Obi is used out there.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 18, 2023, 10:18:22 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 18, 2023, 09:57:09 PM
Terrible game. Wiz the better team tonight.

And Lester is right. It's painful to see the way Obi is used out there.

Too much one on one

Too much hero ball

Not enough ball movement

Predictable offense, easy to defend

We depend on Julius' offense and he was out of sorts
Title: Fucking Free Throws
Post by: chipstern on January 18, 2023, 10:27:32 PM
Wiz 16-19

Knicks 18 -27

🐾🐾 🎛 🐾🐾

Wizards 28 assists
Knicks 14 assists
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 19, 2023, 11:39:35 AM
Yeah possible to forgive a "deflation" game after the tough MLK loss

But the 14 assists really spotlights the bigger problem.

Should we make the playoffs we get swept, losing by increasing margins each game, we are the most figure-out-able team in basketball.

Huge responsibility for Thibs to fix, he has wrought this, but also have to shine a wee light on Brunson's game too...he's the boss out there on the court.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 19, 2023, 11:46:25 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on January 19, 2023, 11:39:35 AM
Yeah possible to forgive a "deflation" game after the tough MLK loss

But the 14 assists really spotlights the bigger problem.

Should we make the playoffs we get swept, losing by increasing margins each game, we are the most figure-out-able team in basketball.

Huge responsibility for Thibs to fix, he has wrought this, but also have to shine a wee light on Brunson's game too...he's the boss out there on the court.

Yes Brunson is.

But whose offense is he running?

Rumors of Thibs craving Reddish for Bullock, another Johnny One Note spot up shooter on the down side of his career and with $10 .Illinois guaranteed for 23-24...

Strickland for Cheeks anyone?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 19, 2023, 03:35:17 PM
We're awfully good, better than we've been in years.

But good enough to move into the top rungs? Probably not.

I mean, we have the talent to be a DEEP team, which is pretty fucking useful if you don't have a superstar. But that has been frittered away, apparently because coach is more comfortable with a small, tight unit.

And that works...until it doesn't.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 19, 2023, 03:55:23 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 19, 2023, 03:35:17 PM
We're awfully good, better than we've been in years.

But good enough to move into the top rungs? Probably not.

I mean, we have the talent to be a DEEP team, which is pretty fucking useful if you don't have a superstar. But that has been frittered away, apparently because coach is more comfortable with a small, tight unit.

And that works...until it doesn't.

Im more concerned with the deployment of the offense than the depth of the rotation.

Looking over SCORES on ESPN NBA, there are a lot of coaches who believe in short rotations. 

Hell NINE would be considered generous by the likes of Mike D'Antoni and Jeff Van Gundy. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 19, 2023, 04:09:26 PM
Facil has been very reflective of late in eschewing the latest variations on an Eric Gordon trade. 

I am sure all of us could come up with some variations on deals for Reddish, Fournier and Rose.

At present, I suspect Leon Rose & Company are exploring options, many of which are designed as much to provide soft landings and renewed opportunities for players are despite being underutlized, have been very professional in their collective and individual responses. 

The Bullock scenario which has been floated fills me with dread and loathing. 

I misread something on my internet feed which led me to believe Cam had been tradxed for Josh Richardson, which would be a score to be sure, but my bad, and salaries don't work.

What's the point of making a Knox/Reddish trade where you bring someone on to sit on the pine.

Rose has been a champ. 

Westbrook?

That would not bode well.
Title: Mitchell
Post by: chipstern on January 19, 2023, 04:11:28 PM
Out at least three weeks with fractured thumb
Title: Lakers Lust
Post by: chipstern on January 19, 2023, 04:37:09 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 19, 2023, 04:11:28 PM
Out at least three weeks with fractured thumb

Meanwhile.

Lakers allegedly hot for Cam Reddish.

Supposed to be offering Kendrick Nunn. 

[Cough]

FUCK YOU. 

Toss in one of those #1 picks and we can talk. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 19, 2023, 07:25:39 PM
I want Weyen Gabriel off the Lakers if taking Nunn back to make the salary work is part of it, that is fine. They can have one of Svi or Archie as well.

I have hate watched Dallas a bit this year as them being good enough but not too good would really help our draft. Reggie has worked on getting more comfy with the ball and he does more off back cuts and attacking close outs than he ever did with us. Also Brunson had a recent year of practice feeding him and working together on D. If we are actually trying to win now he is the most floor ready useful piece we could reasonably acquire.

I expect Mitch to miss 15 games and for us to be within kissing distance of .500 by the end of the next five. It is a good opportunity to see what else we have in the frontcourt.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 19, 2023, 07:42:55 PM
As much as I can see Bullock helping us, I do not want to be doing any business with Dallas right now. Maybe as part of a three way that reroutes Rose.

Houston gets McGee and Rose. Dallas gets Gordon. We get Bullock and Something to make the money work. Josh Green would be nice or possibly Maxi Klebler. I would also consider cash and rolling back protections on the on that other Dallas pick we have laying around.

Houston gets a former MVP and world champ and legit adult supervision. Dallas gets wing pop.

We get a guy who has to be guarded, knows how to defend, plays hard, and would fit right in.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 19, 2023, 08:30:16 PM
I don't see Rose wanting to go to Houston.
Title: Facil
Post by: chipstern on January 19, 2023, 08:52:29 PM
There is no fucking way the Knicks would dump Rose in Houston with a coven of losers. Rose only gets dealt to a contender.

They want to give DR a chance to compete, not punish him.

 JESUS.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 19, 2023, 09:05:23 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 19, 2023, 03:35:17 PM
We're awfully good, better than we've been in years.

But good enough to move into the top rungs? Probably not.

I mean, we have the talent to be a DEEP team, which is pretty fucking useful if you don't have a superstar. But that has been frittered away, apparently because coach is more comfortable with a small, tight unit.

And that works...until it doesn't.

You suck you sit

McBride very close to having his window close
Title: Re: Facil
Post by: facilitatorn on January 19, 2023, 10:23:11 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 19, 2023, 08:52:29 PM
There is no fucking way the Knicks would dump Rose in Houston with a coven of losers. Rose only gets dealt to a contender.

They want to give DR a chance to compete, not punish him.

 JESUS.

I am happy to wait it out. February should have us still in the mix for play in.

I agree that doing right by D Rose is more important than stacking as many wins as possible on this season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 20, 2023, 01:32:15 AM
Rose does not get minutes over Kevin Porter, Nix, and TyTy Washington?

Seeing Jalen Green and Jalen Smith play with a real point guard is still a big step up from seeing the same guard blue moon situational on our bench.

Name me three other teams where Rose has the chance to grab 20 or more minutes per night.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 20, 2023, 04:12:17 AM
Who's saying that it's about minutes?

He likely wants to play for a team that will be battling in the playoffs, not one contending for a draft pick.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 20, 2023, 08:12:30 AM
Quote from: elephant on January 20, 2023, 04:12:17 AM
Who's saying that it's about minutes?

He likely wants to play for a team that will be battling in the playoffs, not one contending for a draft pick.

Yep
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 20, 2023, 01:20:49 PM
If the Rockets are ready to pick up his option for the following year and use Rose as a bridge vet for their enormous assortment of young talent to organize them into a decent or even good team, I think that is a pretty attractive proposition.

Every other option seems to be a version of doing the sitting he does now but in some other location.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 20, 2023, 01:41:34 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 20, 2023, 01:20:49 PM
If the Rockets are ready to pick up his option for the following year and use Rose as a bridge vet for their enormous assortment of young talent to organize them into a decent or even good team, I think that is a pretty attractive proposition.

Every other option seems to be a version of doing the sitting he does now but in some other location.

Rose is willing to be a bridge vet for the Knicks

NOT the Rockets.

Here's one for you, Facil.

Beverley and that young Laker PF you like.

For Evan and Svi.

We get a scrappy vet defender on an expiring and a young developing 3-4

Lakers get desperately needed shooting at SG & SF.

Numbers work
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 20, 2023, 09:38:30 PM
Dejounte Murray is an all star
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 20, 2023, 11:50:15 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 20, 2023, 01:41:34 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 20, 2023, 01:20:49 PM
If the Rockets are ready to pick up his option for the following year and use Rose as a bridge vet for their enormous assortment of young talent to organize them into a decent or even good team, I think that is a pretty attractive proposition.

Every other option seems to be a version of doing the sitting he does now but in some other location.

Rose is willing to be a bridge vet for the Knicks

NOT the Rockets.

Here's one for you, Facil.

Beverley and that young Laker PF you like.

For Evan and Svi.

We get a scrappy vet defender on an expiring and a young developing 3-4

Lakers get desperately needed shooting at SG & SF.

Numbers work

Sure. Lets do it.

How did you get a peek at Roses go & no-go teams list?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 21, 2023, 01:27:32 PM
We are now entering the It Just Got Real part of our schedule that has the prospect of leaving us wounded or dead by the side of the road.

Mitch is hurt. Last night's game was bloody awful. Sunday's game with Toronto will be HUGE, coming before the Cleveland/Boston/Brooklyn gauntlet.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 21, 2023, 02:20:30 PM
Didn't find last night's game universally awful.

On the offensive side, we showed a revitalized sharing is caring ethos til late in the first half  (whatever Chip thinks, @25 FGA for Brunson will be evidence of a fail most nights) which even got Obi involved. A lot further to go in that area....

On the defensive side, a world of hurt awaits til Mitch gets back no doubt, but we can surely do better than that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 21, 2023, 03:13:44 PM
Positive pussy emanations from Lester?
Title: PP-L
Post by: carlos123 on January 21, 2023, 03:33:08 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 21, 2023, 03:13:44 PM
Positive pussy emanations from Lester?

Les🐶 is full of surprises. Nice doggie!

🐶🐶🐶🐶🐶🐶🐶🐶
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 21, 2023, 03:58:50 PM
We are in the process of finding out how much we underpaid Mitch.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 21, 2023, 06:00:24 PM
Underpaid?

You forget that there was, and is, the issue of his vulnerability/propensity for injuries.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 21, 2023, 10:18:37 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 21, 2023, 06:00:24 PM
Underpaid?

You forget that there was, and is, the issue of his vulnerability/propensity for injuries.

Kevin Durant
Anthony Davis
Mitchell Robinson
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 21, 2023, 10:20:38 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on January 21, 2023, 02:20:30 PM
Didn't find last night's game universally awful.

On the offensive side, we showed a revitalized sharing is caring ethos til late in the first half  (whatever Chip thinks, @25 FGA for Brunson will be evidence of a fail most nights) which even got Obi involved. A lot further to go in that area....

On the defensive side, a world of hurt awaits til Mitch gets back no doubt, but we can surely do better than that.

Interesting.

Yes, better ball sharing.

Yes 25 fga per game?  Waiter?  More assists please.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 22, 2023, 03:54:46 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 21, 2023, 10:18:37 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 21, 2023, 06:00:24 PM
Underpaid?

You forget that there was, and is, the issue of his vulnerability/propensity for injuries.

Kevin Durant
Anthony Davis
Mitchell Robinson

?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 22, 2023, 04:04:41 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 22, 2023, 03:54:46 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 21, 2023, 10:18:37 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 21, 2023, 06:00:24 PM
Underpaid?

You forget that there was, and is, the issue of his vulnerability/propensity for injuries.

Kevin Durant
Anthony Davis
Mitchell Robinson

?

Your propensity for injury argument is a canard
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 22, 2023, 06:10:30 PM
Everyone can get injured.

Like, is that really your argument?

There are always guys who are more injury-plagued in their career. Wake up. Robinson is one of those guys!

I'm glad we signed him. I think he's worth the risk! But I do not think, at this point, that he is "underpaid."

Which was the initial comment by one of our learned colleagues that I was responding to.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 23, 2023, 03:14:21 AM
116, 139, 125.

We were keeping under 112. What changed?

Cavs up next.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 23, 2023, 07:43:48 AM
Brunson playing pretty much just one end of the court.  Only works when offense is performing better.  And sometimes not even then (see WAS game where we shoot 59 per cent and lose)
Title: Never Too Early
Post by: chipstern on January 23, 2023, 10:51:25 AM
After Last Night, I Made My First Perusal Of The 2023 Mock Drafts

NEVER TOO EARLY, I RECKON

New York And Dallas are BOTH...25-23

Which translates to the 20th and 21st seeds

We apparently also have protected #1 picks from the Pistons [Top 18 Protected] and the Wizards [Top 14 Protected]. 

Our own second rounder is presently #50

Apparently we offloaded several #2 picks to divest ourselves of Kemba Walker.   

Our 2025 #2 pick was stripped as penance for Jalen Brunson. 

Facil, don't give up on the Wizards pick quite yet.  They are only 1-1/2 games behind the Bulls for the 10th PlayIn Slot. 

WHAT ELSE.

FILE UNDER Bizzare

Saw a bizzare item floating a Cam Reddish for Grayson Allen transaction as a possibility.  GO FIGURE. 

File under REALLY Bizzare: Anyone notice that when the Raptors were assessed a technical, I think it was a flagrant OneShot/Possession, and the Knicks could annoint ANYONE to shoot the free throw, instead of sending Brunson to the line, THIBS ANNOINTED JULIUS, who as even the most devout Randle enthusiasts know, is a very streaky FT Shooter. 

File under EXCEPTIONALLY BIZZARE & UNCONSCIONABLE:  Obi came out on fire.  He shot 4-5 from trey, and Thibs played Sims [who played well] 33 minutes, and Obi 11.  ELEVEN.  Raptors with no center, no big over 6'8" or 6'9".  I mean, WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK

File under What The Actual Fuck, REDUX:  Raptors had 7 turnovers, the Knicks had 16.  Raptors shot 28-35 from the FT Line [80%], while the Knicks were 18-26 [69.2%], even as they shot 48.8% from the field and 43.9% from trey. 

In Other Words....

DEFENSE, TURNOVERS, FREE THROWS   

DEFENSE, TURNOVERS, FREE THROWS Sink Us Again
Title: ChamAAcos grammar
Post by: carlos123 on January 23, 2023, 12:11:18 PM
Quote from: chamAAcocartero8 on January 23, 2023, 07:43:48 AM
Brunson playing pretty much just one end of the court.  Only works when offense is performing better.  And sometimes not even then (see WAS game where we shoot shot 59 per cent and lose lost)

Fixed.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 23, 2023, 02:02:22 PM
If you see us shot and lost, you are even more pessimistic than I am.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 23, 2023, 02:11:12 PM
Rui to the Lakeshow for Nunn and three seconds.
Title: Re: Never Too Early
Post by: lesterluv on January 23, 2023, 02:32:05 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 23, 2023, 10:51:25 AM

File under REALLY Bizzare: Anyone notice that when the Raptors were assessed a technical, I think it was a flagrant OneShot/Possession, and the Knicks could annoint ANYONE to shoot the free throw, instead of sending Brunson to the line, THIBS ANNOINTED JULIUS, who as even the most devout Randle enthusiasts know, is a very streaky FT Shooter. 


Absurd, but I'm assuming a necessary part of the Human Manatee's strategy to keep Mr. Sunshine happy...whatever it takes...we've seen the dark side. we must never go back.


Quote
File under EXCEPTIONALLY BIZZARE & UNCONSCIONABLE:  Obi came out on fire.  He shot 4-5 from trey, and Thibs played Sims [who played well] 33 minutes, and Obi 11.  ELEVEN.  Raptors with no center, no big over 6'8" or 6'9".  I mean, WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK


just trade him I say, set him free, for f's sake...he'll never get the minutes with Randle here, he'll never get the ball with Barrett here (the turning point in the game, we've finally clawed our way back to even, RJ takes several horrible shots in succession with a turnover or two tossed in..never looks at Obi or Evan, why bother, on to defeat!)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 23, 2023, 02:58:46 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 23, 2023, 02:11:12 PM
Rui to the Lakeshow for Nunn and three seconds.

Lakers should be prosecuted for Grand Larceny.
Title: Nunn
Post by: chipstern on January 23, 2023, 03:03:14 PM
I reckon things had gotten toxic and Wizards figured Nunn could, if healthy, could give them depth and skill at PG.

So much for Cam to the Lakers.

Too bad Lakers couldn't get Eric Gordon tossed in...
Title: To Simon Bolivar With Love
Post by: chipstern on January 23, 2023, 04:59:03 PM
Toronto plays small ball.  They have athletic bigs, but most top out at 6'8", maybe one at 6'9"

Obi came out on fire, draining 5-7, with four treys.

Did Thibs reward Obi for all his hard work?  Team him with JR to force Raptors to defend inside AND outside?

NO. 

He played Obi 11 minutes and Jericho Sims 33.

I respect Thibs, but am at my wits end.

PS: When Raptors were flagged for a Flagrant ONE, did Thibs task Jalen with draining the FT?  No.  Julius, a dynamic force for sure, but a very challenged FT shooter.  Unbelievable?

PPS:  Cam?  Thibs has crushed his spirit.  Knicks look to be dealing him for waste water.
Title: Context
Post by: carlos123 on January 23, 2023, 05:28:20 PM
Quote from: Fac on January 23, 2023, 02:02:22 PM
If you see us shot and lost, you are even more pessimistic than I am.

My dear Fac, context is EVERYTHING.
Title: I love you too
Post by: carlos123 on January 23, 2023, 05:32:06 PM
Quote from: chipmeshuga on January 23, 2023, 04:59:03 PM
I respect Thibs, but ...

... it looks like my favorite meshuga is running out of excuses for his favorite coach.
Title: Re: Never Too Early
Post by: elephant on January 23, 2023, 06:00:54 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on January 23, 2023, 02:32:05 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 23, 2023, 10:51:25 AM

File under REALLY Bizzare: Anyone notice that when the Raptors were assessed a technical, I think it was a flagrant OneShot/Possession, and the Knicks could annoint ANYONE to shoot the free throw, instead of sending Brunson to the line, THIBS ANNOINTED JULIUS, who as even the most devout Randle enthusiasts know, is a very streaky FT Shooter. 


Absurd, but I'm assuming a necessary part of the Human Manatee's strategy to keep Mr. Sunshine happy...whatever it takes...we've seen the dark side. we must never go back.


Quote
File under EXCEPTIONALLY BIZZARE & UNCONSCIONABLE:  Obi came out on fire.  He shot 4-5 from trey, and Thibs played Sims [who played well] 33 minutes, and Obi 11.  ELEVEN.  Raptors with no center, no big over 6'8" or 6'9".  I mean, WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK


just trade him I say, set him free, for f's sake...he'll never get the minutes with Randle here, he'll never get the ball with Barrett here (the turning point in the game, we've finally clawed our way back to even, RJ takes several horrible shots in succession with a turnover or two tossed in..never looks at Obi or Evan, why bother, on to defeat!)


I wasn't going to say anything about the Randle free throw, cuz that's just vintage Thibs.

I wasn't going to say anything about how we are wasting Obi, because Lester does it better than I could. And now it's more tragedy than comedy.

And I wasn't going say anything about RJ because, you know, 30 points! A brilliant night! But again, it's in the timing. That flurry of bad plays, right when we needed good ones, pretty much cut the rope mooring us to a competitive game. We never recovered.

I'm not saying the loss was on him. Just saying that sequence is something we've seen again and again.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 23, 2023, 06:02:39 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 23, 2023, 03:14:21 AM
116, 139, 125.

We were keeping under 112. What changed?

Cavs up next.

This is a really good question.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 23, 2023, 07:03:25 PM
FOR ALL THAT IS HOLY, NO TO GRAYSON ALLEN.

(I don't care what his 3 point percentage is)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 23, 2023, 08:20:52 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 23, 2023, 07:03:25 PM
FOR ALL THAT IS HOLY, NO TO GRAYSON ALLEN.

(I don't care what his 3 point percentage is)

🥁⏰️🥁

So...whose minutes would he take?

RJ
Grimes
IQ

Sounds very dubious.

I mean....

Allen & Thibs?

Not feeling it.

Sleep tight El-A-Phant
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 24, 2023, 02:30:33 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 23, 2023, 02:11:12 PM
Rui to the Lakeshow for Nunn and three seconds.

This is so interesting.

I thought early in the year when the Wizards were winning that it was illusory and they would start to falter. And they did. But playing them last week when they're healthy, I mean damn, they've got an array of offensive threats. And they moved the ball around beautifully.

And when Hachimura plays, he looks pretty good!

If they make the playoffs, we've got their first round pick, no? So I wonder if they're going to unload somebody else, forget about the now, and just make a push for the future.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 24, 2023, 04:33:48 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 24, 2023, 02:30:33 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 23, 2023, 02:11:12 PM
Rui to the Lakeshow for Nunn and three seconds.

This is so interesting.

I thought early in the year when the Wizards were winning that it was illusory and they would start to falter. And they did. But playing them last week when they're healthy, I mean damn, they've got an array of offensive threats. And they moved the ball around beautifully.

And when Hachimura plays, he looks pretty good!

If they make the playoffs, we've got their first round pick, no? So I wonder if they're going to unload somebody else, forget about the now, and just make a push for the future.

Not seeing that.

With Kuzma, Kispert and Avidja, Wiz are pretty flush with big wings.

Rui wasn't a happy camper.

Nunn gives them some depth at the point. 

Porzingis, Kuzma, Beal is a core they would like to keep together.  Porzingis might not pick up his option.

So Wiz are looking to keep their core together
Title: Sigh
Post by: chipstern on January 24, 2023, 09:01:43 PM
Here
We
Go

Again
Title: Praise The Lord
Post by: chipstern on January 24, 2023, 10:06:23 PM
Hartenstein

Great defensive play

🍷🏆🍷
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 24, 2023, 10:36:20 PM
Winning with a stop is good.

Winning at home is good.

Stopping a slide is good.

All in all a good night in Knicksville.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 24, 2023, 11:47:19 PM
Amen.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 25, 2023, 01:44:50 AM
And the Wiz beat Dallas.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 25, 2023, 08:23:19 AM
Heat Knicks Cavs Hawks 5 through 8.  Yep.

(Looking. for that 5 or 6 slot - and yeah I know Indiana will be there when Tyrese returns)

Nice effort last night.  Shaped up as a Mitchell dagger, Grimes passed him off and we still survived.  That goes OT and I dont love our chances.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 25, 2023, 08:27:21 AM
Quote from: chipstern on January 24, 2023, 04:33:48 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 24, 2023, 02:30:33 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 23, 2023, 02:11:12 PM
Rui to the Lakeshow for Nunn and three seconds.

This is so interesting.

I thought early in the year when the Wizards were winning that it was illusory and they would start to falter. And they did. But playing them last week when they're healthy, I mean damn, they've got an array of offensive threats. And they moved the ball around beautifully.

And when Hachimura plays, he looks pretty good!

If they make the playoffs, we've got their first round pick, no? So I wonder if they're going to unload somebody else, forget about the now, and just make a push for the future.

Not seeing that.

With Kuzma, Kispert and Avidja, Wiz are pretty flush with big wings.

Rui wasn't a happy camper.

Nunn gives them some depth at the point. 

Porzingis, Kuzma, Beal is a core they would like to keep together.  Porzingis might not pick up his option.

So Wiz are looking to keep their core together

This is what you most often do when deciding to not give a rookie extension.  Wiz wanted a first rounder for Hachi but were offered two number 2s.  In the.
r end they settled when third number 2 was offered.  Nun was just trade filler
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 25, 2023, 08:28:46 AM
Lakers grab the asset and are now expected to extend him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on January 25, 2023, 08:42:08 AM
Re:  a Grayson Allen acquisition - its in the numbers.  GA would be given an opportunity for his 40 per cent three point shooting to inject offense into this team.  Takes McBride minutes initially.  Fournier in this case is no doubt moved for a second rounder and cap filler if we can get it.  Allen could be fan fave as he becomes an asshole but our asshole and my feeling is all that time with Coach K gives him at least SOME basis for defensive structure.
Title: Dear Mr. Fantasy
Post by: chipstern on January 25, 2023, 06:50:58 PM
There is NO WAY on God's Green Earth Grayson Allen is going to be a Knick. 
Title: Re: Dear Mr. Fantasy
Post by: facilitatorn on January 26, 2023, 01:03:53 AM
Quote from: chipstern on January 25, 2023, 06:50:58 PM
There is NO WAY on God's Green Earth Grayson Allen is going to be a Knick.

Cam plus Svi would get it done. They both seem like they would do fine in Milwaukee.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 26, 2023, 08:01:17 AM
I am sure GA will enjoy conversing on the bench next to Fournier.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: LarryB! on January 26, 2023, 12:48:14 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 25, 2023, 08:27:21 AM
Quote from: chipstern on January 24, 2023, 04:33:48 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 24, 2023, 02:30:33 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 23, 2023, 02:11:12 PM
Rui to the Lakeshow for Nunn and three seconds.

This is so interesting.

I thought early in the year when the Wizards were winning that it was illusory and they would start to falter. And they did. But playing them last week when they're healthy, I mean damn, they've got an array of offensive threats. And they moved the ball around beautifully.

And when Hachimura plays, he looks pretty good!

If they make the playoffs, we've got their first round pick, no? So I wonder if they're going to unload somebody else, forget about the now, and just make a push for the future.

Not seeing that.

With Kuzma, Kispert and Avidja, Wiz are pretty flush with big wings.

Rui wasn't a happy camper.

Nunn gives them some depth at the point. 

Porzingis, Kuzma, Beal is a core they would like to keep together.  Porzingis might not pick up his option.

So Wiz are looking to keep their core together

This is what you most often do when deciding to not give a rookie extension.  Wiz wanted a first rounder for Hachi but were offered two number 2s.  In the.
r end they settled when third number 2 was offered.  Nun was just trade filler


Nunn played for Whiz last night. First game.

22 minutes
14 point
4 rebounds
4 assists

Sparked a comeback from 19 points down

Not bad for filler
Title: Nunn
Post by: chipstern on January 26, 2023, 02:46:54 PM
Looked like the player we saw on Miami.

Filler, indeed.

Gonna get an opportunity to lead.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 26, 2023, 03:01:46 PM
Quote from: LarryB! on January 26, 2023, 12:48:14 PM
Nunn played for Whiz last night. First game.

22 minutes
14 point
4 rebounds
4 assists

Sparked a comeback from 19 points down

Not bad for filler

I didn't see that! Thanks for passing it along.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 26, 2023, 03:04:14 PM
I fear that when Obi gets traded, these are the bulletins we'll be getting every other day.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 26, 2023, 05:54:05 PM
Obi ain't gonna get traded.
Title: Speaking Of Trades
Post by: chipstern on January 26, 2023, 05:57:41 PM
Facil

Any chance you're grateful Leon Rose didn't pick up the phone when you called with your Julius Randle for Gordon Hayward blockbuster? 
Title: Julius
Post by: chipstern on January 26, 2023, 08:13:00 PM
Jaylen & Jason are assassins.

Celtics just better. 

Let's see how we weather this storm.

Julius keeping us in the game.

What a difference a year makes. 
Title: Third Quarter Beckons
Post by: chipstern on January 26, 2023, 08:26:04 PM
But for now, we've got a fucking game. 

Thibs did something to settle 'em down and stop the bleeding. 

Let's see what our Knicks have in the their BVDs. 

McBride may be a jerk in progress with his jumper, but you can see why Thibs loves his D. 
Title: Re: Speaking Of Trades
Post by: facilitatorn on January 26, 2023, 09:58:54 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 26, 2023, 05:57:41 PM
Facil

Any chance you're grateful Leon Rose didn't pick up the phone when you called with your Julius Randle for Gordon Hayward blockbuster?

I will tell you in June.
Title: Re: Speaking Of Trades
Post by: chipstern on January 26, 2023, 10:13:43 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 26, 2023, 09:58:54 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 26, 2023, 05:57:41 PM
Facil

Any chance you're grateful Leon Rose didn't pick up the phone when you called with your Julius Randle for Gordon Hayward blockbuster?

I will tell you in June.

Julius 37

Brunson 29

RJ 19

IQ 17

Sims with 14 boards and a game saving block.

FUCK ME
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 26, 2023, 10:20:23 PM
I love them all tonight.

Brunson with two blocks including the one to seal it.

We were cool and stingy down the OT stretch.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 26, 2023, 11:33:32 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 26, 2023, 10:20:23 PM
I love them all tonight.

Brunson with two blocks including the one to seal it.

We were cool and stingy down the OT stretch.

We had our share of turnovers and rushed shots, but we kept grinding and stayed aggressive, even when we pooped our pants.

Julius is still an adventure in decision making and faux pas, but I just love the ferocity with which is getting to the rack.

A POWER Forward.  That's what I'm talking about

Bring on the Nyets.
Title: Careful!
Post by: carlos123 on January 27, 2023, 12:07:33 AM
Quote from: chipstern on January 26, 2023, 11:33:32 PM
Bring on the Nyets.

Be careful what you wish for.
I also dislike the fin Nyets.
Just dont wanna jinx the Knicks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 27, 2023, 09:36:59 AM
Julius mentioned the name of his self-help program and I couldn't grab a pen fast enough to write it down.
Got to get me some....

two big wins!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 27, 2023, 02:04:04 PM
Nets Lakers (with Davis) Heat Clippers - following Celts - tough stretch - but we can play with anyone.
Title: Re: Dear Mr. Fantasy
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 27, 2023, 02:05:17 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 25, 2023, 06:50:58 PM
There is NO WAY on God's Green Earth Grayson Allen is going to be a Knick.

Likely not.  He is valuable to them right now
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 27, 2023, 02:46:00 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on January 27, 2023, 09:36:59 AM
Julius mentioned the name of his self-help program and I couldn't grab a pen fast enough to write it down.
Got to get me some....

two big wins!

Julius is an emtional roller coaster, given to turnovers and the odd vapor lock.

Still, for my friends who talk about not trusting him at games end, we wouldn't even be there if not for the load he carries.

Threes getting more reliable, but for me, it's when the opposition goes OLE, and he bull rushes the rim.

Playing BIG
PLAYING Strong
Title: RJ
Post by: chipstern on January 27, 2023, 02:48:18 PM
Has no rear view mirror.

Does not obsess over his stat line or previous faux pas.

He is ALWAYS IN THE MOMENT.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 27, 2023, 03:40:15 PM
That is why Brunson and Grimes make good backcourt partners for him. They focus on the big picture and on getting a step ahead.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 27, 2023, 05:01:42 PM
I like the dunk on Al better than the dunk on Jason. It was a nastier dunk plain and simple.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 27, 2023, 07:04:27 PM
Rumored that New Orleans is exploring the trade value of Naji Marshall. I like him as a player.

Naji and Garett Temple for Cam Svi and a future protected first, preferably one that started with some other team.

Gives Thibs two quality bench options with positional versatility. I know Temple is cooked, but he is a tough bastard and his salary makes the deal work. Marshall gets paid Svi money.
Title: Re: Careful!
Post by: facilitatorn on January 28, 2023, 08:20:19 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 27, 2023, 12:07:33 AM
Quote from: chipstern on January 26, 2023, 11:33:32 PM
Bring on the Nyets.

Be careful what you wish for.
I also dislike the fin Nyets.
Just dont wanna jinx the Knicks.

Oh well.

At least we tried to make it look like a basketball game in the second half.

We are two games ahead of where I thought we would be at this juncture.
Title: Re: Careful!
Post by: LarryB! on January 28, 2023, 08:44:08 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 28, 2023, 08:20:19 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 27, 2023, 12:07:33 AM
Quote from: chipstern on January 26, 2023, 11:33:32 PM
Bring on the Nyets.

Be careful what you wish for.
I also dislike the fin Nyets.
Just dont wanna jinx the Knicks.

Oh well.

At least we tried to make it look like a basketball game in the second half.

We are two games ahead of where I thought we would be at this juncture.

I am not mad at them.

Kyrie was a beast in the fourth. Nets three point game was ridiculous!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 29, 2023, 03:48:50 PM
We have the second hardest remaining schedule in the league based on opponent won loss records.
Title: TOM VERLAINE, A Peaceful Journey
Post by: chipstern on January 29, 2023, 07:21:41 PM
(https://www.thenationalherald.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/Television_US_rock_band_1977_Elektra_publicity_photo.jpg)

Title: Re: TOM VERLAINE, A Peaceful Journey
Post by: chipstern on January 29, 2023, 08:03:53 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 29, 2023, 07:21:41 PM
(https://www.thenationalherald.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/Television_US_rock_band_1977_Elektra_publicity_photo.jpg)

https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=puIM6LkKLpI&feature=share (https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=puIM6LkKLpI&feature=share)

Television
MARQUEE MOON [1977]
Title: Facil-I-Tating
Post by: chipstern on January 30, 2023, 11:56:20 AM
Take this with a grain of salt. 

Except for Facil, who can take it with a side of fries. 

"Knicks Targetting OG Anunoby"

Okay, I'll bite.

Multiple #1 picks, Obi, Cam...minimally.  McBride. 

Just spitballing, for fun. 

2023 Dallas #1
2023 Washington #1
2024 Knicks #1
2026 Knicks #1

Obi and Cam works because Raptors are under the cap. 

So...

Creates a conundrum at SF/SG, though theoretically, OB could sllide over to play PF with the second unit when Julius rests.  And Jericho could also play some PF. 

Meanwhile, we have RJ and Grimes playing minutes at SF/SG, IQ at SG/PG. 

C: Mitchell, Isaiah
PF: Julius, Jericho
SF-PF: OG
SG-SF: RJ, Quentin, Evan, Svi
PG-SG: IQ
PG: Jalen, Derrick, Ryan
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 30, 2023, 01:25:38 PM
That would be nice, but he is not coming that cheap.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 30, 2023, 04:41:04 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 30, 2023, 01:25:38 PM
That would be nice, but he is not coming that cheap.

Ergo, he's not coming.
Title: That ain't cheap, it's a buttload
Post by: lesterluv on January 30, 2023, 10:40:08 PM
crazy m'fers want to give up 3 picks and players for a glorified m'fn role player, but don't want to pay up a lil more for a game changing offensive juggernaut....

that some ill shit,

Rose better do something meaningful this deadline after one of the greatest whiffs in franchise history this summer.
Title: DAWG SHIT [That ain't cheap, it's a buttload]
Post by: chipstern on January 30, 2023, 11:40:35 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on January 30, 2023, 10:40:08 PM
crazy m'fers want to give up 3 picks and players for a glorified m'fn role player, but don't want to pay up a lil more for a game changing offensive juggernaut....

that some ill shit,

Rose better do something meaningful this deadline after one of the greatest whiffs in franchise history this summer.

Clean out your litter box. 

I'd be fine with Rose doing nothing, rather than satiate the BLOOD LUST of MFs like you, insisting that he hit one oout of the park and get us A FUCKING SUPERSTAR. 

PS: Meanwhile, something for everyone.  Remember how Kiid was mocking the Knicks for passing on Bones Hyland for Quentin Grimes?  WELL, the NUGGETS are looking to trade him.  Former Coach Karl said he is a great talent, but very immature, and that his shot selection would torpedo the team's playoff aspirations. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 31, 2023, 11:22:07 AM
I don't think Lester, or anyone else, imagines we're picking up a superstar.

That ship sailed last summer.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 31, 2023, 11:25:08 AM
Meanwhile, would be interesting to hear from someone who has seen a lot of OG Anunoby who might explain or justify some of the deals circulating. I don't get it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 31, 2023, 11:30:53 AM
Meanwhile. Part 2. I'm still absolutely bullish on Grimes. Predictable that he's getting fried for some missed shots.

He's playing a role right now, but he's got tremendous upside.
Title: Re: DAWG SHIT [That ain't cheap, it's a buttload]
Post by: elephant on January 31, 2023, 11:37:57 AM
Quote from: chipstern on January 30, 2023, 11:40:35 PM
PS: Meanwhile, something for everyone.  Remember how Kiid was mocking the Knicks for passing on Bones Hyland for Quentin Grimes?  WELL, the NUGGETS are looking to trade him.  Former Coach Karl said he is a great talent, but very immature, and that his shot selection would torpedo the team's playoff aspirations.

Come on, man. Knicks have likely dangled IQ in trades too. Question of particular needs in other areas, not necessarily that  the team has soured on the player.

Yeah, maybe Karl has inside info. Maybe. Or maybe it's just how Karl feels about this kind of baller.
Title: Re: DAWG SHIT [That ain't cheap, it's a buttload]
Post by: chipstern on January 31, 2023, 01:40:57 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 31, 2023, 11:37:57 AM
Quote from: chipstern on January 30, 2023, 11:40:35 PM
PS: Meanwhile, something for everyone.  Remember how Kiid was mocking the Knicks for passing on Bones Hyland for Quentin Grimes?  WELL, the NUGGETS are looking to trade him.  Former Coach Karl said he is a great talent, but very immature, and that his shot selection would torpedo the team's playoff aspirations.

Come on, man. Knicks have likely dangled IQ in trades too. Question of particular needs in other areas, not necessarily that  the team has soured on the player.

Yeah, maybe Karl has inside info. Maybe. Or maybe it's just how Karl feels about this kind of baller.

I do belive the DANGLING IQ EPOCH has come to an end.

Grimes missing shots?

Brunson, Randle, Barrett dominating the ball.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 31, 2023, 01:42:12 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 31, 2023, 11:30:53 AM
Meanwhile. Part 2. I'm still absolutely bullish on Grimes. Predictable that he's getting fried for some missed shots.

I love Grimes cause he is always showing me some little something new. The lightning drives along the baseline. The interior passing. Yeah he will surely go through stretches where the shot is off-or-on, but he rarely takes a bad one. Happy to sit and watch his progress continue.
Title: Add A No Bee?
Post by: chipstern on January 31, 2023, 01:43:26 PM
Excellent defender.

Power forwards mass and muscle packed into 6'7" small forwsrd's frame.

Effective 3 point sniper
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 31, 2023, 01:45:22 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on January 31, 2023, 01:42:12 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 31, 2023, 11:30:53 AM
Meanwhile. Part 2. I'm still absolutely bullish on Grimes. Predictable that he's getting fried for some missed shots.

I love Grimes cause he is always showing me some little something new. The lightning drives along the baseline. The interior passing. Yeah he will surely go through stretches where the shot is off-or-on, but he rarely takes a bad one. Happy to sit and watch his progress continue.

Totally agree.

He is very mature.

Does so many little things and is tasked with defending the other team's bell cow.
Title: Grimes
Post by: chipstern on January 31, 2023, 01:46:29 PM
When the jumpers come, the will be in bunches. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: LarryB! on January 31, 2023, 04:51:10 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 31, 2023, 11:30:53 AM
Meanwhile. Part 2. I'm still absolutely bullish on Grimes. Predictable that he's getting fried for some missed shots.

He's playing a role right now, but he's got tremendous upside.

Named to the Rising Star Game
Title: Overtime
Post by: chipstern on January 31, 2023, 10:05:21 PM
WTF was Thibs thinking.

Someone other than Jalen taking the last shot.

To be a Knick fan is to suffer.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 31, 2023, 10:18:51 PM
I've been saying this again and again and again.

Thibs is terrible in end game situations. How many times like this we don't even get off a shot?

I know the dude is an encyclopedia of basketball, but he's got a mighty big blind spot.
Title: Re: Overtime
Post by: carlos123 on January 31, 2023, 10:35:58 PM
Quote from: Chip on January 31, 2023, 10:05:21 PM
WTF was Thibs thinking.

Someone other than Jalen taking the last shot.

To be a Knick fan is to suffer.

Inspired by Chipirin comment about his favorite coach, and the fact I am now leaning towards my doggie for the position
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AMWts8BzsnSKzoyC4EIf-YRo2OYsgrc4mG7bvY2ctnGr2Rz2Ws8elzEqkjvsJriQqHW9TD8d7WNechMaf1crmVx2H4vMxrspbb6QeH9rWKLNv3NgW0pAD1B2Vz8mENUvF1NlvNRC8H92DJvIfNKSLe6B2zY6=w1141-h658-no?authuser=0)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 31, 2023, 10:42:17 PM
That last shot in regulation. Jesus.

Yes for giving the ball to Brunson and riding that horse all the way.

Who doesn't do that??

But giving it to Randle with fucking AD guarding him! And worse, Julius is Mr. predictable out there, so LeBron can immediately double. In fact, you give it to Brunson, IQ or Grimes, we've got a fighting chance cuz no one knows where they're heading.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on January 31, 2023, 11:47:23 PM
3 guarding 4 - and all 4 were spectators.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 01, 2023, 12:08:59 AM
We gotta look for Grimes more.

How we set up and execute for critical baskets is definitely the worst aspect of this team.
Title: It happens every f-in time
Post by: carlos123 on February 01, 2023, 01:20:42 AM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on January 31, 2023, 11:47:23 PM
3 guarding 4 - and all 4 were spectators.

It is called bad coaching.
Title: Footnote
Post by: chipstern on February 01, 2023, 04:16:10 AM
Thibs benched RJ for most of the fourth quarter and all of overtime.

Hmmmm...

Death Wish

🤞
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 01, 2023, 10:46:03 AM
Is the Free Minutes Window finally closing for RJ, lol?

Some good some terrible yesterday.

Yes Julius' regulation closer was a predictable horror, but there was some attempt at variety in the final few minutes before that.

Helped that one ball stopper was on the bench. Believe RJ was sitting there on account of his defense, however. Grimes, Quick are just so much stronger. Hell, I think even Fournier is stronger at that end.

As for Brunson, well, big picture, the ball needs to move more into different hands....+25 shots for Jalen is always gonna indicate fail.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 01, 2023, 12:18:50 PM
Quick..still have lingering problems with his approach to playing PG, but can't argue with the defensive progress....and he models himself after the very best.

Quickley has become obsessed with basketball minutiae. He is able to recognize other teams plays just from the actions he is defending, which then allows him to direct the defenders behind him. He scrutinizes game film, and not just to memorize opposing offenses. He also studies his favorite defender, Milwaukee Bucks extraordinaire Jrue Holiday.

https://theathletic.com/4143386/2023/02/01/knicks-immanuel-quickley-defense/
 (https://theathletic.com/4143386/2023/02/01/knicks-immanuel-quickley-defense/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 01, 2023, 02:44:58 PM
Thanks for the link. Looking forward to checking that out. You can SEE these things though. You see him improving. A genuine work in progress. His style isn't any different than last year, but it's obvious he has worked on his game, and continually shows improvement on both ends.

I suppose everybody works on their game, but it's rare you see the changes and improvement. IQ is one. Julius another. I've seen things this year (almost always on offensive, alas) where it's like Damn, where did that come from? And you KNOW he put in the work.

My issue with RJ is how little he's changed as a player. Seemingly good character guy, hard worker, highly skilled. But he almost never surprises you. And low impact on defense.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 01, 2023, 04:24:35 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 01, 2023, 02:44:58 PM
Thanks for the link. Looking forward to checking that out. You can SEE these things though. You see him improving. A genuine work in progress. His style isn't any different than last year, but it's obvious he has worked on his game, and continually shows improvement on both ends.

I suppose everybody works on their game, but it's rare you see the changes and improvement. IQ is one. Julius another. I've seen things this year (almost always on offensive, alas) where it's like Damn, where did that come from? And you KNOW he put in the work.

My issue with RJ is how little he's changed as a player. Seemingly good character guy, hard worker, highly skilled. But he almost never surprises you. And low impact on defense.

RJ actually hit a 12 foot pull up jumper off the bounce in the fourth, and I remember shouting, "There we go motherfucker--that's what I'm taking about," so everything isn't a trey or a pound the rock drive to the rack for a layup.  The next step in his offensive evolution/efficiency I've been waiting on. 

Then Thibs takes him out and nails him to the pine. 

Title: RJ
Post by: chipstern on February 01, 2023, 04:25:57 PM
No, I get it I Get it: He's not as good a defender as IQ or QG. 

Still, Thibs may have just stepped in his own dookie.
Title: Knicks Need To Sign A Superstar
Post by: chipstern on February 01, 2023, 04:28:10 PM
Okay, I'll bite. 

Where exactly is this superstar free agent. 

Go ahead, I'm listening? 

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/ (https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/)
Title: Re: Knicks Need To Sign A Superstar
Post by: chipstern on February 01, 2023, 04:31:34 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 01, 2023, 04:28:10 PM
Okay, I'll bite. 

Where exactly is this superstar free agent. 

Go ahead, I'm listening? 

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/ (https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/)

Summer Of 2023

Kyrie Irving

[Cough]

Dream On

Who Else? 

I'll Wait
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 01, 2023, 04:37:56 PM
What would an OG for RJ trade look like? As a heads up exchange I think it would make us better now as I think OG could just do his thing in Thibs world with OG joining Grimes, Quick and our bigs covering up for Randle and Brunson on D.

It gives Toronto a home town talent on a long reasonable deal while they will still have pieces like Barnes and Koloklo to cover for RJ and VanFleet.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 01, 2023, 04:52:09 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 01, 2023, 04:37:56 PM
What would an OG for RJ trade look like? As a heads up exchange I think it would make us better now as I think OG could just do his thing in Thibs world with OG joining Grimes, Quick and our bigs covering up for Randle and Brunson on D.

It gives Toronto a home town talent on a long reasonable deal while they will still have pieces like Barnes and Koloklo to cover for RJ and VanFleet.

Hmmmmmm

Tried a number of combos on Real GM

RJ straight up

RJ + Cam

RJ + Cam + Obi

Due to New York being under the cap and choosing to invoke the Cap Room rule, New York could not go over the cap by more than $100,000 of post-trade Team Salary, which did happen here.

Due to Toronto being over the cap and having a post-trade Team Salary over the Tax Threshold, the 25% trade rule is invoked. Toronto could not receive more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did not happen here. Also, Toronto met the requirements of the Hard Cap rules of staying under the Tax Threshold plus $4M for adjusted post-trade Team Salary.

ME?

I'm not ready to give up on RJ.  Like Julius he has his upside and his downside. 

But I have to disagree with Elephant about him not getting better, and he IS only 22. 

RJ for OG

Might [MIGHT] be better chemistry for both teams.

Not sure how it might happen, and remember Toronto's MASAI raped us once in Denver in the Carmelo Shake Down, and another time in Toronto on the Bargnani Catastrophe, the #1 we gave up in the latter fleecing, turned into Jakob Poetl, soon to be a much coveted free agent, and Jamal Murray in the former. 

The taste of MASAI's abuse was so great, that James Dolan nixed a done deal trade for Kyle Lowry, and latter tried to recruit Masai to run our operation, a gig which went eventually to Leon Rose. 
Title: February 9th
Post by: chipstern on February 01, 2023, 04:54:05 PM
As good as Hachimura looked for the Lakers, I'm afraid Cam Reddish is going to look quite nice for whichever team fleeces us at the trade deadline for the meager return we are due to get back for him. 

As per Dawg, I do not see the Knicks do anything by the Trade Deadline.
Title: Re: Knicks Need To Sign A Superstar
Post by: carlos123 on February 01, 2023, 05:08:23 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 01, 2023, 04:31:34 PM

Summer Of 2023

Kyrie Irving


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

PLEASE, PLEASE, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
Title: Chuckle
Post by: chipstern on February 01, 2023, 05:17:44 PM
Kyrie would represent a pretty all-in roll of the dice, would he not?

Heh
Title: Re: Chuckle
Post by: carlos123 on February 01, 2023, 05:33:46 PM
Quote from: Chip on February 01, 2023, 05:17:44 PM
Kyrie would represent a pretty all-in roll of the dice, would he not?

Heh

I could no longer root for the Knicks if that clown played for them, no matter how good he may be.

In case you didnt know, I am not an all-in-roll-of-the-the-fin-dice kind of guy.

Maybe the doggie would like it, but I dont think so.
Title: Re: February 9th
Post by: elephant on February 01, 2023, 05:40:45 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 01, 2023, 04:54:05 PM
As good as Hachimura looked for the Lakers, I'm afraid Cam Reddish is going to look quite nice for whichever team fleeces us at the trade deadline for the meager return we are due to get back for him. 

As per Dawg, I do not see the Knicks do anything by the Trade Deadline.

That's why I can't even look at those trade scenarios anymore.

Because I prefer Reddish to most of those guys available. And Reddish ain't playing. So what's the point?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 01, 2023, 05:45:42 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 01, 2023, 04:37:56 PM
What would an OG for RJ trade look like? As a heads up exchange I think it would make us better now as I think OG could just do his thing in Thibs world with OG joining Grimes, Quick and our bigs covering up for Randle and Brunson on D.

It gives Toronto a home town talent on a long reasonable deal while they will still have pieces like Barnes and Koloklo to cover for RJ and VanFleet.

I find this a reasonable concept, given everything else.

I'm no fan of the Randle/RJ combo.

If Randle is staying, getting a stronger and more versatile defender seems compelling. And it opens the door for Grimes to be more of an offensive force (which is what I expect to happen next year anyway).
Title: Re: February 9th
Post by: chipstern on February 01, 2023, 06:04:48 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 01, 2023, 05:40:45 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 01, 2023, 04:54:05 PM
As good as Hachimura looked for the Lakers, I'm afraid Cam Reddish is going to look quite nice for whichever team fleeces us at the trade deadline for the meager return we are due to get back for him. 

As per Dawg, I do not see the Knicks do anything by the Trade Deadline.

That's why I can't even look at those trade scenarios anymore.

Because I prefer Reddish to most of those guys available. And Reddish ain't playing. So what's the point?

Hey, someone has to keep Fournier company on the pine. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 01, 2023, 07:33:44 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 01, 2023, 05:45:42 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 01, 2023, 04:37:56 PM
What would an OG for RJ trade look like? As a heads up exchange I think it would make us better now as I think OG could just do his thing in Thibs world with OG joining Grimes, Quick and our bigs covering up for Randle and Brunson on D.

It gives Toronto a home town talent on a long reasonable deal while they will still have pieces like Barnes and Koloklo to cover for RJ and VanFleet.

I find this a reasonable concept, given everything else.

I'm no fan of the Randle/RJ combo.

If Randle is staying, getting a stronger and more versatile defender seems compelling. And it opens the door for Grimes to be more of an offensive force (which is what I expect to happen next year anyway).

It would be trading a power SG playing SF for a legit power SF with less time locked in on a favorable contract.

Could RJ see that his future in New York is to become a high level SF stopper and make strides in the summer that make him the better long term bet?

I bet Toronto thinks it can use another open floor creator with the chaos it causes with its length and as an SG Barrett rebounds very well for his spot, another area the Raps can use help with.

They still have a ton of fowards they like. OG is the runt of their litter.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 01, 2023, 07:55:23 PM
I finally found one that works, but it is a bit of a horror show.

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=25u49onn (http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=25u49onn)

OG, Thad Youg, Otto Porter, Flynn and Banton for RJ, D Rose and Obi

Leaves us with

Mitch Hartenstein Sims
Randle Young Porter
OG Banton Svi Reddish
Grimes Quickley
Brunson McBride Flynn Archi

Svi, Reddish, Banton, and Archi are all on one year deals and all can play to some extent.

If Young also finds it easier than Obi to be regularly productive spelling Randle and OG brings out the best in those around him, we could get a big boost.

In RJ and Obi the raps get everything that has an untapped potential in our franchise and puts them in a system that emphasizes their strengths along with a reliable backup pg in Rose.

No picks involved, who says no?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 01, 2023, 07:59:19 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 01, 2023, 07:33:44 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 01, 2023, 05:45:42 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 01, 2023, 04:37:56 PM
What would an OG for RJ trade look like? As a heads up exchange I think it would make us better now as I think OG could just do his thing in Thibs world with OG joining Grimes, Quick and our bigs covering up for Randle and Brunson on D.

It gives Toronto a home town talent on a long reasonable deal while they will still have pieces like Barnes and Koloklo to cover for RJ and VanFleet.

I find this a reasonable concept, given everything else.

I'm no fan of the Randle/RJ combo.

If Randle is staying, getting a stronger and more versatile defender seems compelling. And it opens the door for Grimes to be more of an offensive force (which is what I expect to happen next year anyway).

It would be trading a power SG playing SF for a legit power SF with less time locked in on a favorable contract.

Could RJ see that his future in New York is to become a high level SF stopper and make strides in the summer that make him the better long term bet?

I bet Toronto thinks it can use another open floor creator with the chaos it causes with its length and as an SG Barrett rebounds very well for his spot, another area the Raps can use help with.

They still have a ton of fowards they like. OG is the runt of their litter.

RJ would be a SG on the Raptors, would he not? 

Achiuwa, Siakim, Barnes, Barrett, Van Vleet, assuming Van Vleet stays.

For me, the reality factor here is Trent is that Gary Trent as well as Van Vleet can exercise a player option this summer. 

The OTHER REALITY FACTOR, is I would expect Masai to make a play for IQ in any transaction, and to me, he has proven to be a keeper for the Knicks. 

Anyway, I don't see it getting done, and as with most trades, those NOT BEING BANDED ABOUT THE INTERNET, are more likely to go down. 

I think something like Detroit's Sadiq Bey, a Villinova team mate of Brunson might be more tenable. 

If we gave Detroit back the protected #1 of there's we own, that would make for a considerable incentive. 

Trouble is Reddish for Bey straight up doesn't fly. 

Now Reddish and Detroit's #1 for Bey and Isiah Stewart.

Ha Ha

Now Reddish and Detroit's #1 for Bey and Kevin Knox?  That works. 

Now Reddish and the return of Detroit's #1 for Bey and Isiah Stewart would only be tenable if we added more draft capital.  Detroit has a bit of a logjam at C/PF what with Jalen Duren and Marvin Bagley and [for the moment] Nerlens Noel. 

As for Reddish, Pistons have vets Bogdonavich and Burks at SF/SG, so Reddish would get squeezed again.  Likely let him walk this summer. 

So Reddish and Detroit's #1 for Bey and Kevin Knox?  Bet can shoot and defend and has a wing body.  So...

But what then of Fournier? 

Thibs would be looking down the bench and seeing the Law Firm of Bey, Fournier Knox. 

NONE OF IT APPEARS TENABLE. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 01, 2023, 08:05:07 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 01, 2023, 07:55:23 PM
I finally found one that works, but it is a bit of a horror show.

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=25u49onn (http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=25u49onn)

OG, Thad Youg, Otto Porter, Flynn and Banton for RJ, D Rose and Obi

Leaves us with

Mitch Hartenstein Sims
Randle Young Porter
OG Banton Svi Reddish
Grimes Quickley
Brunson McBride Flynn Archi

Svi, Reddish, Banton, and Archi are all on one year deals and all can play to some extent.

If Young also finds it easier than Obi to be regularly productive spelling Randle and OG brings out the best in those around him, we could get a big boost.

In RJ and Obi the raps get everything that has an untapped potential in our franchise and puts them in a system that emphasizes their strengths along with a reliable backup pg in Rose.

No picks involved, who says no?

I do. 

I see no urgency to simply reshuffle the deck and sunder what little chemistry we already have. 

Porter is a gimp

Young is a graybeard

Flynn is redundant

I like OG, but for RJ and [AND] Obi?

Nah. 

Also, again, I really like OG, but how much does he move the needle? 

Let alone SiMoan BowlingVar's THIBS Index Of Venal Sins. 

THEY'RE ALL GOING TO BE NAILED TO THE FUCKING PINE.   

I keep reading about Milwaukee giving us a #2 and the earthly remains of George Hill and Serge Ibaka for Cam. 

Where does Hill play with Brunson, McBride, Quickley, Arci.  Oh, AND ROSE? 

Does Ibaka get pissed sitting behind Robinson, Hartenstein, Sims, Randle and Toppin, or does Thibs further eviscerate Toppin and elevate Ibaka to the Taj Gibson role?   

Anyway, a creative concoction, Facil.  I salute you.

But...NO WAY. 

PS: We likely dump Reddish for a sack of nothing.  Pity.  Thought he showed promise before Thibs castrated him.  We're going to wake up a few weeks from now and see Reddish putting up Hachimura-like numbers for someone else. 

PPS: If the Wizards make the play in, we have THREE MID FIRST ROUNDERS This Summer.  Keels is playing better in G League.  Jokubaitis is on our radar.  This summer Rose enters his team option year, while Fournier has until the summer of 2024 for his option to come due, so both contracts are flippable.  It remains to be seen how Coach Thibs is graded out this Spring, and it is 50/50 if we move on.  No playoffs?  Thibs is toast.  Trade Obi, and crush IQ's heart...that's his best friend.  THERE IS SOMETHING TO BE SAID FOR CHEMISTRY, and the bonds we have crafted through some intense ups and downs.  I SAY WE STAND PAT, and revisit everything this summer when we have more perspective and more collective experience as a team on the floor and in the front office, and a better perspective of how to proceed.  THERE ARE NO SUPERSTARS coming our way.  We have to grow our own.  We do not need to take on strangers with half a season to go, just to have them sitting on the fucking bench. 

PPS: I love me Brunson and Randle.  STILL...Jalen took 29 shots.  Julius took 19.  That is not an offense, Thibs, that is OFFENSIVE.  Standing around and watching Brunson and Randle go one on one while the team as a whole bricks 7-34.  WTF? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 01, 2023, 09:30:22 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 01, 2023, 08:05:07 PM

PS: We likely dump Reddish for a sack of nothing. 


This seems a good bet.

I am interested in where Rose goes (more than who we get for him).

And if we don't/can't trade Fournier, I wonder if Thibs will decide to give him more time.

I'd like to think so...but who the fuck knows.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 01, 2023, 09:42:16 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 01, 2023, 09:30:22 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 01, 2023, 08:05:07 PM

PS: We likely dump Reddish for a sack of nothing. 


This seems a good bet.

I am interested in where Rose goes (more than who we get for him).

And if we don't/can't trade Fournier, I wonder if Thibs will decide to give him more time.

I'd like to think so...but who the fuck knows.

Thibs is set in his ways

For Better

And

For Worse
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 01, 2023, 10:48:29 PM
But if you take a few steps back.......

I'm reminded again that all three have significant talent. We should get something tasty in return, no?

(or have the Knicks utterly destroyed that argument by gluing them to the pine for the season?)
Title: Something Tasty?
Post by: chipstern on February 01, 2023, 11:00:31 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 01, 2023, 10:48:29 PM
But if you take a few steps back.......

I'm reminded again that all three have significant talent. We should get something tasty in return, no?

(or have the Knicks utterly destroyed that argument by gluing them to the pine for the season?)

No one is doing us a charity hang. 

We made good deals with Detroit and OKC around draft day last year, helping us to clear cap space for Brunson and aquire draft capital, but it did not come cheap: a number of #1 and #2 draft picks; Alec Burks. 

Get something tasty back?

We are going to get back #2 picks, and geriatric bench fodder, good only for sitting on the pine, doing the 'ol Theo Pinson RahRahRah. 

Something tasty? 

Thibs only plays nine players. 

What then, IS THE POINT? 

AGAIN, this summer, with the draft and free agency, is when moves of some substance can be made.  We have ZERO LEVERAGE NOW. 

I'm sure we could've made the same deal the Wizards did with the Lakers.

And how exactly would three #2 picks and Kendrick Nunn do dick for us? 

Bench depth?  Something tasty.  Reddish, Rose and Fournier are pretty tasty.

RahRahRah SisBoomBahHumbug
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 02, 2023, 09:56:45 AM
We have a Hachimura?  I wasn't aware.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: LarryB! on February 02, 2023, 10:10:58 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 02, 2023, 09:56:45 AM
We have a Hachimura?  I wasn't aware.

We do not have Hachimura. He was traded to the Lakers in return for Kendrick Nunn who you called filler
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: LarryB! on February 02, 2023, 11:51:14 AM
Anyone know what Reddish did to get nailed to the bench?

What is with all the consecutive DNPs?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 02, 2023, 02:09:39 PM
Quote from: LarryB! on February 02, 2023, 11:51:14 AM
Anyone know what Reddish did to get nailed to the bench?

What is with all the consecutive DNPs?

Supposedly, back in December, Cam complained to an assistant coach about his useage...

Or the lack thereof.

Sometimes Thibs will simply exile a MF, as he did with Kemba.

Tom's way of wafting a fart in the general direction of the front office when he is not on board with a personnel decision.

Not one of his more alluring traits
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 02, 2023, 04:28:49 PM
Quote from: LarryB! on February 02, 2023, 11:51:14 AM
Anyone know what Reddish did to get nailed to the bench?

What is with all the consecutive DNPs?

Apparently he bitched about his minutes to an assistant coach. It seems that communication swiftly broke down from there. It echos why he was available to us from Atl.

We are among the worst fourth quarter offenses in the league. That tells me we have not built up so much valuable chemistry that we should not risk disrupting it to improve the talent and or the composition of the roster.

Thibs only plays 9 guys. Most playoff rotations fall on eight.

We are not in the Orlando Houston Detroit phase of being a year away from a year away. Shedding some assets and moving some bodies for a player we can get good work out of right away better fits our circumstances.

It may be there is no reasonable deal to be had, in which case we carry on and gain hopefully valuable experience in the process.



Title: Interesting
Post by: carlos123 on February 02, 2023, 06:35:15 PM
Quote from: Fac on February 02, 2023, 04:28:49 PM
Quote from: LarryB! on February 02, 2023, 11:51:14 AM
Anyone know what Reddish did to get nailed to the bench?

What is with all the consecutive DNPs?

Apparently he bitched about his minutes to an assistant coach. It seems that communication swiftly broke down from there. It echos why he was available to us from Atl.

We are among the worst fourth quarter offenses in the league. That tells me we have not built up so much valuable chemistry that we should not risk disrupting it to improve the talent and or the composition of the roster.

Thibs only plays 9 guys. Most playoff rotations fall on eight.

We are not in the Orlando Houston Detroit phase of being a year away from a year away. Shedding some assets and moving some bodies for a player we can get good work out of right away better fits our circumstances.

It may be there is no reasonable deal to be had, in which case we carry on and gain hopefully valuable experience in the process.

Fac, so you do not see that if "we are among the worst fourth quarter offenses in the league" is because our starters are gassed?

Dont you think an extra body might help?

Dont you think that if some of the 4 bench players who actually play had a few more minutes and some of our starters a few less we may not be one of "the worst fourth quarter offenses in the league"?

Interesting.
Title: Keystone Kops
Post by: chipstern on February 02, 2023, 10:04:01 PM
⚠️🎱⚠️
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 02, 2023, 10:49:18 PM
On a night we beat the Heat and see Jules get his allstar nod, I am slightly more inclined to let it roll with our current roster.

Nice to see Deuce and Obi give us a boost.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 02, 2023, 11:49:02 PM
Yup
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 03, 2023, 12:05:47 AM
Bones Hyland definitely going somewhere. Denver isn't even inserting him into the game anymore.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 03, 2023, 12:06:51 AM
Is it too much to want to see SOME SIGN that the Knicks are working on their end of game play?

This shit is embarrassing.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 03, 2023, 12:12:14 AM
And since I'm such a sourpuss after a victory, let me add one more thing:

RJ has the most peculiar 30 point games in which, when push comes to shove, I'm still hoping someone else gets the ball.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on February 03, 2023, 12:46:40 AM
Quote from: 🐘 on February 03, 2023, 12:12:14 AM
And since I'm such a sourpuss after a victory, let me add one more thing:

RJ has the most peculiar 30 point games in which, when push comes to shove, I'm still hoping someone else gets the ball.

You aint the only sourpuss around here.

On the other hand, Fac is getting sunnier and sunnier. Almost, ALMOST, as positive as PP#1 Chip.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 03, 2023, 02:40:27 AM
Here is a deal I would not mind adding some draft capital to,

Rose and Reddish to Portland for Hart and Little

Thibs would definitely play Josh Hart some. He does all the stuff Thibs loves.

Nasir Little is on a heater but still cannot find much time.

Rose gives them guard depth and Cam gives them some size on the wing and they save 19 million next year making them free agency players to some extent or at least helping them avoid the tax. It would take us out of next years free agency.

Mitch Hartenstein Sims
Randle Obi Svi
RJ Hart Little
Grimes Quickley Fournier
Brunson Grimes Archi

Like I tell the deli guy, more Nova.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 03, 2023, 10:46:56 AM
Quote from: LarryB! on February 02, 2023, 10:10:58 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 02, 2023, 09:56:45 AM
We have a Hachimura?  I wasn't aware.

We do not have Hachimura. He was traded to the Lakers in return for Kendrick Nunn who you called filler

Right

We had no Hachimura type player to offer.  But thanks for chiming in, Chip's flunkie. 

----

As for last night - nice win.  I have us finishing 19-12 last 31, for 46 wins.  No team likes playing us, when all is said and done. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 03, 2023, 11:04:46 AM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 03, 2023, 10:46:56 AM

 No team likes playing us, when all is said and done.


Pretty sure the Brooklyn Nets enjoy playing us.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: LarryB! on February 03, 2023, 02:01:50 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 03, 2023, 10:46:56 AM
Quote from: LarryB! on February 02, 2023, 10:10:58 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 02, 2023, 09:56:45 AM
We have a Hachimura?  I wasn't aware.

We do not have Hachimura. He was traded to the Lakers in return for Kendrick Nunn who you called filler

Right

We had no Hachimura type player to offer.  But thanks for chiming in, Chip's flunkie.

Quote from: LarryB! on January 26, 2023, 12:48:14 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on January 25, 2023, 08:27:21 AM
Quote from: chipstern on January 24, 2023, 04:33:48 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 24, 2023, 02:30:33 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 23, 2023, 02:11:12 PM
Rui to the Lakeshow for Nunn and three seconds.

This is so interesting.

I thought early in the year when the Wizards were winning that it was illusory and they would start to falter. And they did. But playing them last week when they're healthy, I mean damn, they've got an array of offensive threats. And they moved the ball around beautifully.

And when Hachimura plays, he looks pretty good!

If they make the playoffs, we've got their first round pick, no? So I wonder if they're going to unload somebody else, forget about the now, and just make a push for the future.

Not seeing that.

With Kuzma, Kispert and Avidja, Wiz are pretty flush with big wings.

Rui wasn't a happy camper.

Nunn gives them some depth at the point. 

Porzingis, Kuzma, Beal is a core they would like to keep together.  Porzingis might not pick up his option.

So Wiz are looking to keep their core together

This is what you most often do when deciding to not give a rookie extension.  Wiz wanted a first rounder for Hachi but were offered two number 2s.  In the.
r end they settled when third number 2 was offered.  Nun was just trade filler


Nunn played for Whiz last night. First game.

22 minutes
14 point
4 rebounds
4 assists

Sparked a comeback from 19 points down

Not bad for filler
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 03, 2023, 02:15:03 PM
One thing about Kyrie.

Never boring.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 03, 2023, 07:10:58 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 03, 2023, 02:15:03 PM
One thing about Kyrie.

Never boring.


🎱⚠️🎱
Title: Nyets...Utterly Fucked
Post by: chipstern on February 03, 2023, 07:26:51 PM
The PRICE for James Harden?  THE PRICE FOR MAKING KYRIE & KEVIN HAPPY? 

Houston received swapping rights with Brooklyn in 2021, and owns unprotected first round pick draft swapping rights with Brooklyn in 2023, 2025 and 2027.

Houston received the Nyets 2022 #1 and owns their unprotected #1 picks in 2024 and 2026.

Be careful what you wish for, Trader Vics of the world. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 03, 2023, 08:30:15 PM
Knicks gleaned excellent rotation pieces with consecutive #25 draft picks, Immanuel Quickley and Quentin Grimes.

In 2023, with our own #1, and potentially both The Dallas AND Washington #1, picks I will be in no rush to pony up #1 picks, unprotected or protected, leading up to February 9th, for marginal players.

OG is admittedly very tempting, but at what price? 

Hey

Kyrie Irving
Russell Westbrook
James Harden
Rudy Gobert
Donovan Mitchell

Donovan has worked out quite nicely for Cleveland, but every other all in deal has been underwhelming or a disaster.

And after the Nyets mortgaged their future to make Durant and Irving happy by going all in on Haden, Philly got to pick up THE BEARD for Simmons, Seth Curry the earthly remains of Andre Drummond and two #1 picks, after the Nyets gave up Seven #1 picks [4 swaps. 3 unprotected], a future all star in Jarrett Allen, a solid wing in Carris LaVert, and I forget what else.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 03, 2023, 08:40:03 PM
Toronto does not know if it is a buyer or a seller yet. This is probably all smoke and no fire as usual.

That is better than a trade in which we are fleeced.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 04, 2023, 01:06:09 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 03, 2023, 08:40:03 PM
Toronto does not know if it is a buyer or a seller yet. This is probably all smoke and no fire as usual.

That is better than a trade in which we are fleeced.

Word

Again

I'm fine with standing pat and keeping our eyes on the playoffs

Summer is the time for deals, free agents and draft picks
Title: Standings
Post by: chipstern on February 04, 2023, 01:24:35 AM
Have you looked at standings, league wise.

Number of teams like the Knicks hovering just above or just below .500% is something else.

Maybe four teams on the bottom.

Everyone else is in the hunt.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 04, 2023, 01:59:43 AM
One more go at tempting you off your perch, in service of getting our big minute guys RJ and Randle some solid if unspectacular relief that our coach would play,

Cam and Obi to Detroit for Sadiq Bey and our good friend Nerlins Noel.

Obi probably has more upside than Bey especially paired with Cade and Ivey and Duren and definitely a better vibe for the crowds. Cam might still be something. He can at least push Kevin Knox.

We are trading 10-15 minutes a night for 14-5 of decent fundamental play with steady focus in a big but not too athletic guy who knows the business.

Mitch Hartenstein
Randle Bey
RJ
Grimes Quickley
Brunson McBride

That becomes your nine man rotation and your eight probably takes out McBride. Bey eats up all the minutes behind RJ and Randle. Maybe they give up some and see 32 or 33 instead of their load now and that leaves 25-30 minutes for Bey as a stretch four power 3, things he does reasonably well and in a much more Thibsy way than Obi or Cam.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 04, 2023, 02:02:53 AM
I would give the lesser of ours or the Dallas pick plus the Washington pick to make it Burks and Bey instead of Nerlins and Bey. It would help Detroit in the Wemby hunt and make us a very tough out.
Title: Summertime
Post by: chipstern on February 04, 2023, 01:05:34 PM
I doubt Detroit is seriously shopping Bey.

I am not inclined to make trades for role players.  And I like Bey

Again, chemistry.

Obi makes a winning contribution in his paltry 12-15 minutes a night, and enjoys significant chemistry with IQ.

I like Bey.  I like Burks.

Pointless shuffling irrespective of likelihood Detroit would sunder its own chemistry.

The trading deadline cannot come a moment too soon.

SUMMERTIME, WHEN THE DEALING IS EASY...

PS: The latest "rumor" has us exploring Toppin, Fournier and draft capital for Utah's Beasley and Vanderbilt.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 04, 2023, 02:09:30 PM
I like Obi. For his sake, I hope he gets traded. He needs a chance to play, really play....and see what happens.

As long as this is Thibs team, he'll have a modest and constricted role.

Feel similarly toward Rose. Less concerned with what we get, then freeing him to use his talents while he still can.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 04, 2023, 03:57:26 PM
 The clippers are gonna come in pissed. This could be bad.
Title: RJ
Post by: chipstern on February 04, 2023, 08:40:19 PM
Terrible shooting.
Worse D

George and Leonard eating him alive
Title: Re: RJ
Post by: carlos123 on February 04, 2023, 09:41:40 PM
Quote from: Chip on February 04, 2023, 08:40:19 PM
Terrible shooting.
Worse D

George and Leonard eating him alive

And Thibs keeps him in all of OT, after playing more minutes than anyone else. I am writing this with 1:06 left, knowing there is no change coming.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 04, 2023, 10:20:07 PM
Our other wing did foul out.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 04, 2023, 10:26:57 PM
Btw, against teams like the Clips, foul when up three at the end of regulation. Otherwise they are built to hit those shots.
Title: Fac bright rosy glasses
Post by: carlos123 on February 05, 2023, 01:20:08 AM
Quote from: Fac on February 04, 2023, 10:20:07 PM
Our other wing did foul out.

RJ should have been replaced with IQ at the beginning of OT, if not way before during the 4th. Grimes did not foul out until more than half through OT, partly because he had to cover for RJ.

Once Grimes was out, and given that our great coach would never give anybody else a minute outside of his irreplaceable nine, he could have played Obi an extra couple of minutes. It was clear it was not RJs day to play.

A less stubborn MF would have given a few minutes to Cam. But your favorite coach (and Chips) keeps finding new ways to lose, even when Brunson has a monster game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 05, 2023, 01:42:36 PM
guess I'm glad I was on an airplane yesterday....
Title: Airplane
Post by: carlos123 on February 05, 2023, 03:11:46 PM
Quote from: Les🐶 on February 05, 2023, 01:42:36 PM
guess I'm glad I was on an airplane yesterday....

Shooting down the balloon, yes? 💭
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 05, 2023, 03:31:47 PM
First tweet I see on the Kyrie trade:

Now Kyrie can get to the bottom of the JFK assassination too in his free time.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 05, 2023, 04:13:08 PM
Dallas is going to have some high scoring games.

The Nyets have taken a small step back. Finney-Smith offsets some of the point guard downgrade and now Cam Thomas gets to take a run at the role.

On to the next
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 05, 2023, 06:02:36 PM
And Dinwiddie has been playing great to boot.

I know he's no Irving, but he's a guy that can make an impact.
Title: Miles McBride
Post by: chipstern on February 05, 2023, 09:02:24 PM
I am so proud of Deuce

🤡 Fuck you Kiid  🤡
Title: Fournier
Post by: chipstern on February 05, 2023, 09:06:21 PM
Showed his stones

Showed his pride
Title: Julius
Post by: chipstern on February 05, 2023, 09:09:24 PM
Played big

Took it to the rack decisively

With some big assists and boards and a minimum of turnovers

Every inch an all star


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 05, 2023, 09:13:11 PM
Satisfying win!

Just playing so hard. Especially the Fournier, Deuce and Hart, all with big, big plays and nonstop effort.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 05, 2023, 09:24:04 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 05, 2023, 09:13:11 PM
Satisfying win!

Just playing so hard. Especially the Fournier, Deuce and Hart, all with big, big plays and nonstop effort.

Right On

Hart and Jericho combined for like 22 boards.

Jalen

21, 5, 7

Julius

Was clanging threes, but STOPPED hoisting them.  I think he was like 8-11 otherwise.

24, 9, 7

Purposeful
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 06, 2023, 02:33:14 AM
Who had the better Nyets tenure, Harden or Irving?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 06, 2023, 02:51:37 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 06, 2023, 02:33:14 AM
Who had the better Nyets tenure, Harden or Irving?

They were BOTH disasters.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 06, 2023, 11:26:30 AM
Let me just echo you all and note how satisfying last night's game was....

Title: Tuesday
Post by: chipstern on February 06, 2023, 01:07:22 PM
We better not underestimate Orlando.

Banchero, the Wagner Brothers...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 06, 2023, 02:38:37 PM
McBride, who I championed before anyone here...7 for 11 from deep last 3 games.  Will it continue?   eh.....  Plus 34 for game.  Noted.  Solid win for this rising team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 06, 2023, 03:12:59 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 06, 2023, 02:38:37 PM
McBride, who I championed before anyone here...7 for 11 from deep last 3 games.  Will it continue?   eh.....  Plus 34 for game.  Noted.  Solid win for this rising team.

You are so shamelessly full of crap

Members of this forum have stable cognitive functions, and reliable retentive memories.

You were giddily dropping him from the rotation weeks ago.

Toss my salad.

🥗
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 06, 2023, 03:24:14 PM
You could link to or ?quote any post you like Stern.  I am with the coach totally on rotations.  Doesn't mean I can't drop a line about Deuces poor stroke when it happens.  He was on my draft board (likely before you knew who he was)  though admittedly behind some others.
Title: ChamAAco #1
Post by: carlos123 on February 06, 2023, 03:56:30 PM
Quote from: chamAAcocartero8 on February 06, 2023, 02:38:37 PM
McBride, who I championed before anyone here...

Both Chamaco and ChamAAco are ALWAYS Numero 1.

They know MORE than anyone else, and we are SOOOOOO LUCKY 🍀 that they visit the forum from time to time.

If nothing else, they remind us how clever they are.

PS. Toss my salad 🥗
Title: Nets Owner Joe Tsai
Post by: chipstern on February 06, 2023, 06:22:32 PM
Irving stole his money, and went out of his way to diss him during the whole Anti-Semitic dust up.

Now, just as the Nyets were clicking, another power move.

You better BELIEVE that Tsai went out of his way NOT TO TRADE KYRIE TO THE LAKERS.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 06, 2023, 07:41:16 PM
Not a problem

Cuban stepped up
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 07, 2023, 10:46:01 AM
I would like to pause for a moment and wish Elfrid Payton my very best as he begins his 2023 season in....Puerto Rico!


https://twitter.com/csantaellaSSA/status/1622671784976818226 (https://twitter.com/csantaellaSSA/status/1622671784976818226)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 07, 2023, 02:17:52 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on February 07, 2023, 10:46:01 AM
I would like to pause for a moment and wish Elfrid Payton my very best as he begins his 2023 season in....Puerto Rico!


https://twitter.com/csantaellaSSA/status/1622671784976818226 (https://twitter.com/csantaellaSSA/status/1622671784976818226)

⏰️🏭⏰️
Title: RJ
Post by: chipstern on February 07, 2023, 08:05:10 PM
Barrett a hot mess
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 07, 2023, 08:45:52 PM
No answer for Fultz?  Heh.
Title: Magic Kingdom
Post by: chipstern on February 07, 2023, 09:33:16 PM
Orlando has some serious young talent. 

Gritty Win.

Another gritty fourth quarter.

RJ emerged from his coma when it counted.  Sims manning up.   CLUTCH Brunson and Randle hitting their FTs.

Lucky to come out alive.

Onwards.
Title: Q & A
Post by: chipstern on February 07, 2023, 09:48:55 PM
Jalen Brunson

THE ANSWER
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 08, 2023, 02:45:24 AM
I was worried about this one.

Two days left for roster fireworks. I doubt we decide to get anything done.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 08, 2023, 07:38:00 AM
Wont be for lack of trying.

My preference is Bogdanovic (Det)  but we are still in on Onunoby.  And murmurs around league about Siakam.  But I do think Knicks are intent on keeping Barrett and RJ would be the ask in many of these deals.  Reddish almost certainly dealt though depth does matter.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: LarryB! on February 08, 2023, 10:07:54 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 08, 2023, 07:38:00 AM
Wont be for lack of trying.

My preference is Bogdanovic (Det)  but we are still in on Onunoby.  And murmurs around league about Siakam.  But I do think Knicks are intent on keeping Barrett and RJ would be the ask in many of these deals.  Reddish almost certainly dealt though depth does matter.

Depth?

Reddish could not be buried deeper in the bench and still be in the roster.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 08, 2023, 10:20:16 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 08, 2023, 02:45:24 AM
I was worried about this one.

Two days left for roster fireworks. I doubt we decide to get anything done.

Wally Szerbiak spelled it out.

Sundering chemistry with 26 games to go, FOR WHAT?

Took us 56 games to get to the point where we could begin to play coherently in the fourth quarter.

Once more with feeling

SUMMERTIME
Title: 21 Hours And Counting
Post by: chipstern on February 08, 2023, 06:06:16 PM

Crickets

⏰️🤡⏰️
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 08, 2023, 06:09:21 PM
Sets up nice either way.  I will take 2-3 extra wins if a deal can give us that.  Keeping current assets and running with the nine and a half we have is also fine.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 08, 2023, 08:07:34 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 08, 2023, 07:38:00 AM

 But I do think Knicks are intent on keeping Barrett and RJ would be the ask in many of these deals.  Reddish almost certainly dealt though depth does matter.


Really?

You're saying that lots of teams want to trade for RJ?

I really hadn't heard that.
Title: Lakers Finally Pull Off Their Westbrrok Deal
Post by: chipstern on February 08, 2023, 09:32:51 PM
Jazz, Wolves, Lakers execute huge complicated deal.

Westbrook, Lakers 2027 #1 [1-4 protected], plus Toscano-Andesron, Damian Jones to Jazz.

Mike Conley, Nickiel Alexander Walker to Wolves, along with second rounders from 2024,2025,2026.

Lakers get D'Angelo Russell, Malik Beasley, Jarred Veranderbilt.

Yikes.

Latest Knicks "Rumors" center on Josh Hart. 

11 hours and 19 minutes and counting. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 08, 2023, 10:41:24 PM
Cam, Svi, Archi and a protected first to Portland for Hart.

We opened two roster spots swapping Cam for Hart. Hopefully this years Dallas pick was not the one involved.

Welcome Josh. Play like you do and Thibs will love you.
Title: The Prophet Facil
Post by: chipstern on February 08, 2023, 10:47:39 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 08, 2023, 10:41:24 PM
Cam, Svi, Archi and a protected first to Portland for Hart.

We opened two roster spots swapping Cam for Hart. Hopefully this years Dallas pick was not the one involved.

Welcome Josh. Play like you do and Thibs will love you.

Kind of doubt the Dallas pick is going out.

We have what, protected picks from Washington, Detroit, Milwaukee?

Good deal for both teams. 

You're a prophet, Facil.

Far out.

Leon got your man.  Brunson's Nova mate.

How does Thibs respond?
Title: Re: The Prophet Facil
Post by: chipstern on February 08, 2023, 10:51:44 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 08, 2023, 10:47:39 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 08, 2023, 10:41:24 PM
Cam, Svi, Archi and a protected first to Portland for Hart.

We opened two roster spots swapping Cam for Hart. Hopefully this years Dallas pick was not the one involved.

Welcome Josh. Play like you do and Thibs will love you.

Kind of doubt the Dallas pick is going out.

We have what, protected picks from Washington, Detroit, Milwaukee?

Good deal for both teams. 

You're a prophet, Facil.

Far out.

Leon got your man.  Brunson's Nova mate.

How does Thibs respond?

C: Robinson, Hatrtenstein, Sims
PF: Randle, Toppin
SF-SG: Barrett, Grimes, Hart, Fournier
SG-PG: Quickley
PG: Brunson, McBride, Rose
Title: Thirteen
Post by: chipstern on February 08, 2023, 10:54:25 PM
So, that's 13.

Is Leon done?

Are Fournier and Rose in play?

Do Keels and Jeffries get promoted?

Title: Hmmmmm
Post by: chipstern on February 08, 2023, 11:00:20 PM
Until Mitchell cones back...

Maybe...dare one hope?

Ten?

Sims-Randle-Barrett-Grimes-Brunson

Hartenstein-Toppin-Hart-Quickley-McBride

************
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 08, 2023, 11:25:43 PM
Svi might be our season and career 3pt percentage leader in franchise history.

I think RJ and Deuce are first in line for a minutes hit.

I do not think this moves the needle against Milwaukee or Philly. It might help some against Boston or Brooklyn who rely more on their wings.
Title: Re: Thirteen
Post by: elephant on February 08, 2023, 11:50:28 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 08, 2023, 10:54:25 PM

Are Fournier and Rose in play?


You've got to believe they are indeed in play.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 09, 2023, 12:07:03 AM
It looks like it is our pick top 14 protected. The more we win with Hart, the less he costs.

We also created a 7 million dollar trade exception which might help us fill one of those roster spots

Mitch Hartenstein Sims
Randle Obi
RJ Hart Fournier
Grimes Quickley
Brunson McBride Rose
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 09, 2023, 12:27:59 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 09, 2023, 12:07:03 AM
It looks like it is our pick top 14 protected. The more we win with Hart, the less he costs.

We also created a 7 million dollar trade exception which might help us fill one of those roster spots

Mitch Hartenstein Sims
Randle Obi
RJ Hart Fournier
Grimes Quickley
Brunson McBride Rose

Yup

Knicks betting on themselves being a playoff/playin team.

If we crash and enter the Bottom 14, four #2s convey.

Trade Exception of $7 million?

Might that facilitate a move with Fournier or Rose?

DID ANYONE SEE THE VIDEO CLIP OF Brunson LEARNING OF THE TRADE.

"Oh, SHIT!"

Brother Freaked. 

Title: Speaking Of Freaking?
Post by: chipstern on February 09, 2023, 01:24:43 AM
Durant to Phoenix.

Mikal Bridges, Cam Johnson, Jae Crowder and four unprotected #1 picks.

Go NYETS.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 09, 2023, 01:35:03 AM
Holy fuck.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 09, 2023, 01:36:57 AM
Quote from: elephant on February 09, 2023, 01:35:03 AM
Holy fuck.



👁🤡👁
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 09, 2023, 01:38:50 AM
A lot of 3 for 1 and 3 for 2 trades happening. Could mean some guys will fall off the end of rosters. We may be hanging around with a trade exception and a roster spot to pick one up.
Title: Trades 'R Us
Post by: chipstern on February 09, 2023, 01:52:01 AM
👀🕶👀

😆

You guys wanted trades.

Well...

I am thrilled with the Hart Deal.

Almost as thrilled as Brunson.

OG would've cost us multiple firsts and some more significant front line talent.

We gave up spare parts and, presumably, well, hopefully, a mid to late first rounder.

Again, have to believe Hart is Thibs' kind of guy, and will make Jalen happy. 

Again, how does Thibs adapt his rotation to take advantage of Hart's special, custom made for Coach T talent.  Having Josh. Deuce and IQ presumably heading up the second unit, and Thibs being able to spot RJ, Grimes, Hart and IQ as final five minutes options with Brunson in the fourth quarter.

Well thought out move.

Ladies and gentlemen, your NovaKnicks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 09, 2023, 01:56:43 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 09, 2023, 01:38:50 AM
A lot of 3 for 1 and 3 for 2 trades happening. Could mean some guys will fall off the end of rosters. We may be hanging around with a trade exception and a roster spot to pick one up.

$7 Million Trade Exception
Two Open Roster Spots
The Dallas #1
Protected Wizards, Pistons, Bucks picks
Talented Vets in Fournier and Rose

Thirteen Hours to investigate other deals.

AND, we can still be a player in the buyout market.

💐🎂💐
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 09, 2023, 02:05:39 AM
Sadly I like the Nyets much better now. Simmons is still an albatross but there is a fun roster in there.

Claxton Sharpe
Finney-Smith Thomas Simmons
Bridges ONeal
Thomas Sumner Mills
Dinwiddie Curry

You can expect these guys to show up and play without demanding a damn thing from the front office.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 09, 2023, 02:13:59 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 09, 2023, 02:05:39 AM
Sadly I like the Nyets much better now. Simmons is still an albatross but there is a fun roster in there.

Claxton Sharpe
Finney-Smith Thomas Simmons
Bridges ONeal
Thomas Sumner Mills
Dinwiddie Curry

You can expect these guys to show up and play without demanding a damn thing from the front office.

That kid they drafted after we selected Grimes has been on a scoring bender.

Dinwiddie is a solid PG and a high character guy and Finney-Smith and Crowder are gritty defenders.  And Simmons ain't gritty, nor is he completely shifty.  And Claxton can protect the rack.  Could be a tough defensive group. 

JV is a good coach.

Still....

For someone who doesn't play kids?

Thibs is playing a lot of kids.

And Randle, Brunson, Hart are all like 26, 27. 

Far out.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 09, 2023, 10:34:35 AM
I still don't see why the Nets trade Durant right now. Doesn't make sense to me.

It had to include pressure from Durant itself, no?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 09, 2023, 11:53:17 AM
Quote from: chipstern on February 09, 2023, 12:27:59 AM
DID ANYONE SEE THE VIDEO CLIP OF Brunson LEARNING OF THE TRADE.

"Oh, SHIT!"

Brother Freaked.

Pretty cool.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 09, 2023, 01:06:21 PM
If I had my druthers, would totally prefer Rose finds a home out West.

Do not want to come across him in the playoffs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 09, 2023, 01:34:41 PM
Quickley the holdup in Anunoby deal

Rose to Milwaukee?

Knicks back in on Zack Levine?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 09, 2023, 01:36:52 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 09, 2023, 10:34:35 AM
I still don't see why the Nets trade Durant right now. Doesn't make sense to me.

It had to include pressure from Durant itself, no?

Yes

Reportedly this is what happened.. 
Title: Trade Deadline
Post by: chipstern on February 09, 2023, 02:54:43 PM
🤡⚠️🤡

Damn
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 09, 2023, 02:59:33 PM
Oooh. Bones Hyland to Clippers!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 09, 2023, 03:00:41 PM
I can't react to any Knicks buzz until it actually happens.

(but I do not want IQ removed unless it's for something pretty awesome!)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 09, 2023, 03:12:00 PM
It's funny that Durant can't bear to be on a team without another superstar...even if he might be surrounded by a ton of good pieces.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 09, 2023, 03:21:24 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 09, 2023, 02:59:33 PM
Oooh. Bones Hyland to Clippers!

Yet Quentin Grimes still a Knick.

Again

Our Second Unit Shaping Up To Be Pretty Feisty On D

McBride
IQ
Hart
Toppin
Hartenstein
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 09, 2023, 03:40:33 PM
I guess Rose can still be bought out?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 09, 2023, 03:41:58 PM
Fournier might have to sit on his French ass for the rest of the season.

Probably not ecstatic with that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 09, 2023, 03:49:51 PM
But our crew is intact. i'm cool with that. Now let's crush the 76ers.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 09, 2023, 03:55:41 PM
So appears Leon has moved on from slowly accumulating #1s to slow squittering them away.

Hart basically cost us 2, but 3 was a bridge too far for DM, lol....

Guess it could be worse..(lavine), marginally improved on court, but yawner of a trade deadline for us.

Title: spilt milk
Post by: carlos123 on February 09, 2023, 04:28:37 PM
Hey, doggie, stop whining about Donovan. Leon got you Brunson.

That is your superstar, or at least a difference maker.

PS. I still want you to replace you know who.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AMWts8BzsnSKzoyC4EIf-YRo2OYsgrc4mG7bvY2ctnGr2Rz2Ws8elzEqkjvsJriQqHW9TD8d7WNechMaf1crmVx2H4vMxrspbb6QeH9rWKLNv3NgW0pAD1B2Vz8mENUvF1NlvNRC8H92DJvIfNKSLe6B2zY6=w1141-h658-no?authuser=0)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 09, 2023, 04:45:37 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on February 09, 2023, 03:55:41 PM
So appears Leon has moved on from slowly accumulating #1s to slow squittering them away.

Hart basically cost us 2, but 3 was a bridge too far for DM, lol....

Guess it could be worse..(lavine), marginally improved on court, but yawner of a trade deadline for us.

LAME
Title: Re: spilt milk
Post by: chipstern on February 09, 2023, 04:46:03 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 09, 2023, 04:28:37 PM
Hey, doggie, stop whining about Donovan. Leon got you Brunson.

That is your superstar, or at least a difference maker.

PS. I still want you to replace you know who.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AMWts8BzsnSKzoyC4EIf-YRo2OYsgrc4mG7bvY2ctnGr2Rz2Ws8elzEqkjvsJriQqHW9TD8d7WNechMaf1crmVx2H4vMxrspbb6QeH9rWKLNv3NgW0pAD1B2Vz8mENUvF1NlvNRC8H92DJvIfNKSLe6B2zY6=w1141-h658-no?authuser=0)

Lame

YAWN
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 09, 2023, 05:05:54 PM
lol, ok.... didn't expect ya to feel that




**** but it da truth nonetheless
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 09, 2023, 05:17:59 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on February 09, 2023, 05:05:54 PM
lol, ok.... didn't expect ya to feel that




**** but it da truth nonetheless

[Sigh]

We were looking at some #2s for Cam.

* We got back a rotation player who has a deep bond with our Bell Cow and fits the coach's system/culture.

* We still have the Dallas #1 pick, and God forbid, the Wizards stay healthy and make the play-in, that's another #1 pick.  And going forward, we have all out own #1 picks, and beside the Wiz, protected #1s from Detroit and Milwaukee.

* Number One picks?  Overlooking Rose & Fournier, we have eleven roster spots pretty much locked up.  We potentially have Jeffries and Keels in Westchaster.  We have Jokubaitis on ice in Madrid.  This trade was a roll of the dice on us as a playoff team. 

* Forunier & Rose remain as dependable in case of fire break glass option, and are certainly dealable come summer time. 

* We maxed out value for Reddish and bench jockeys, and Dawg is still howling at the moon over fucking Donovan Mitchell.  Yikes

* Dawg is yawning at Leon?  Hey, dude.  Leon moved from Elfrid and Scored us JALEN, who had a ripple effect on Julius, Grimes and IQ...RJ still figuring it out.  Leon did NOT TAKE THE BAIT with either Danny Or Masai.  We did not go all in on the pursuit of a "superstar mirage" shiny object such as Lavine or OG.  We have a young developing core, ample draft assets.  And, AGAIN, we scored a solid rotational player for spare parts who fits Thibs' System, can do all of that boring, awww, poor Dawg's dick ain't hard stuff like defend, facilitate, rebound and do all manner of positive things on offense.  Back in Octboer he lit up the Knicks for 10 points and 19 rebounds.

* SighMoan Bowl-a-Bar is still calling for Thibs head, even though we have a winning record, and are incrementally getting better, and making a playoff run. 

We all have issues with Thibs, but it is interesting that his players are ALL VERY COMMITTED AND LOYAL. And for someone who doesn't play youth, Thibs's system has proven nurturing to the likes of IQ, Deuce, Grimes, Sims, Mitchell, Isaiah and dare we suggest, RJ and Obi.  And both Jalen and Julius have dramatically upped their games and leadership. 

It's called PROGRESS, guys.  Slow, grinding, incremental. 

But y'all are yawning?

BE still my HEART.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 09, 2023, 06:01:42 PM
well, since we made it to 3 pm w/o $200 million worth of LaVine I guess I can live...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 09, 2023, 06:30:03 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 09, 2023, 05:17:59 PM

We all have issues with Thibs, but it is interesting that his players are ALL VERY COMMITTED AND LOYAL. And for someone who doesn't play youth, Thibs's system has proven nurturing to the likes of IQ, Deuce, Grimes, Sims, Mitchell, Isaiah and dare we suggest, RJ and Obi.  And both Jalen and Julius have dramatically upped their games and leadership. 


"Dare we suggest?"

Agree with most, but naw, I wouldn't suggest that. Obi is developing under the Knicks? An athlete with his gifts? Only if we're using a mighty low bar. And RJ. Yeah he's improved since he came on the team. But no discernible improvement to my eye between last year and this. Is he being developed or nursed? Or a combo thereof?
Title: Re: spilt milk
Post by: carlos123 on February 09, 2023, 06:53:47 PM
Quote from: Chip Thibs on February 09, 2023, 04:46:03 PM

Lame

YAWN

Both you AND Chamaco are totally committed and unconditional. The THIBBIES team.

I would rather find a better coach for the Knicks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 09, 2023, 09:11:29 PM
So far, you have offered no tenable candidates, save for your recurring joke about Mike Miller.

Leaving us with naught but enmity.

Hard to take that seriously. 
Title: enmity?
Post by: carlos123 on February 09, 2023, 09:30:43 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 09, 2023, 09:11:29 PM
So far, you have offered no tenable candidates, save for your recurring joke about Mike Miller.

Leaving us with naught but enmity.

Hard to take that seriously.

I think you take our banter too seriously.

I do not feel any kind of enmity or animosity over Thibs spilled blood. I hope you dont either.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 09, 2023, 10:03:33 PM
Hart was a good step, on a level with dodging LaVine.

Now let us see what buyouts this all leads to. There might be one or two more shoes to drop.
Title: Re: enmity?
Post by: chipstern on February 09, 2023, 10:26:35 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 09, 2023, 09:30:43 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 09, 2023, 09:11:29 PM
So far, you have offered no tenable candidates, save for your recurring joke about Mike Miller.

Leaving us with naught but enmity.

Hard to take that seriously.

I think you take our banter too seriously.

I do not feel any kind of enmity or animosity over Thibs spilled blood. I hope you dont either.

I enjoy your sense of humor.
Title: Thank you
Post by: carlos123 on February 10, 2023, 12:49:08 AM
Quote from: Chip on February 09, 2023, 10:26:35 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 09, 2023, 09:30:43 PM
Quote from: Chip on February 09, 2023, 09:11:29 PM
So far, you have offered no tenable candidates, save for your recurring joke about Mike Miller.

Leaving us with naught but enmity.

Hard to take that seriously.

I think you take our banter too seriously.

I do not feel any kind of enmity or animosity over Thibs spilled blood. I hope you dont either.

I enjoy your sense of humor.

Thank you, Chip.

As a token of appreciation, a picture you might enjoy, for a laugh.

(https://images.thestar.com/F9yMncEhYdlJJ4gy_KG1AdpYYYM=/850x603/smart/filters:cb(1675952760241):format(webp)/https://www.thestar.com/content/dam/thestar/entertainment/opinion/2023/02/08/bidens-state-of-the-union-gets-a-lift-from-marjorie-taylor-greene-as-he-keeps-playing-his-haters-for-fools/marjorie_taylor_greene.jpg)
Title: da truth nonetheless, the diminished expectation crowd can eat it up..
Post by: lesterluv on February 10, 2023, 11:49:16 AM
Quote from: chipstern on February 09, 2023, 05:17:59 PM

* We maxed out value for Reddish and bench jockeys, and Dawg is still howling at the moon over fucking Donovan Mitchell.  Yikes

Maxed out value? We completely destroyed value, lol. We gave up a 1st and a former lotto pick to get him..then we had to ATTACH another 1st to get rid of him in order to pick up...

A shooting guard who can't shoot.

Make no mistake, Hart clearly has other virtues, but that's what he is. And he's not going to learn to shoot at age 28.

Max out value my fat ass.

2 firsts out the door..for maybe lil bitty incremental improvement..go shoot off ya motherfucking fireworks. He didn't destroy the place and I'm supposed to celebrate? Lmao, well, maybe in the context of past Knick GM's you got a point.

What is Leon's signature move to date? Betting the farm on RJ Barrett who is still a FUCKING NET NEGATIVE ASSET BY EYETEST AND EVERY STATISTICAL MEASURE.

and you're whipping me for bemoaning the DM whiff? No bro..you don't fuck up when 25 year old future hall of fame native NY game changers are on the display counter. That *^& matters. Burning a pick on a marginal 6th or 7th man Thibs guy..hoo fucking ha. Rose failed. He hasn't failed as much as Mills or Layden..but so far...he ain't shit.

You keep sucking on that bone.
I like steak.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 10, 2023, 12:50:34 PM
Zing!
Title: Steak
Post by: chipstern on February 10, 2023, 01:22:51 PM
⚖️🤡⚖️

Yes, I'm just a cocktail eyed optimist.

PS:  There is shooting and then there is scoring

⏰️💰⏰️

And then there is defense, rebounding, facilitating and chemistry

Jalen and Thibs seem pleased

Alas, Dawg has been denied his prime rib of superstar.

Winning continuing.  A playoff run.  Fingers crossed. Pm

Not acceptable?

POOR YOU

We shall SEE
Title: Re: Steak
Post by: chipstern on February 10, 2023, 03:05:51 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 10, 2023, 01:22:51 PM
⚖️🤡⚖️

Yes, I'm just a cocktail eyed optimist.

PS:  There is shooting and then there is scoring

⏰️💰⏰️

And then there is defense, rebounding, facilitating and chemistry

Jalen and Thibs seem pleased

Alas, Dawg has been denied his prime rib of superstar.

Winning continuing.  A playoff run.  Fingers crossed. Pm

Not acceptable?

POOR YOU

We shall SEE

I suspect  that IQ supplants Deuce at PG

Hart gleans minutes from Deuce, IQ, Grimes and RJ, when he isn't playing next to them. 

Likewise,  end of fourth quarter with Brunson.

A new toy for Thibs.
Title: F-in Thibs
Post by: carlos123 on February 10, 2023, 03:19:38 PM
So, we are building a team to please Thibs.
Like he was a fukin prima donna, who destroys whatever she dont like and gets what she wants.
Fuk Thibs!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 10, 2023, 03:34:47 PM
Well despite the lack of new beef, I am looking forward to tonight's game, Hart's debut perhaps, and Thibs' post-deadline rotations. Then tomorrow I might stroll over to Barclays to watch Embid in person just for kicks. Haven't been there in ages, but you can go to just about any Nets game you want to for about $30 bucks these days...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 10, 2023, 05:31:17 PM
💋🐎💋

The Nyets looked good last night.

Dinwiddie is a leader.  Cam Thomas can shoot as well as Joe Harris.  Claxton is a solid presence in the paint.  The Ben Simmons narrative just got more interesting.  Mikal and Cam are uber talented. 

Knicks have brought up our 2-Ways, Jeffries and Keels, to take a place on the Cam Reddish Memorial Pine.
Title: Irony Rich Blood
Post by: chipstern on February 10, 2023, 06:46:08 PM
This one is for The DAWG.

Portland's newest small forwards?

Cam Reddish & Kevin Knox

Karma, baby.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 10, 2023, 07:00:29 PM
It's possible this is all some Leon Rose long game designed to make Dame finally say uncle, quit the Blazers and roll into the Garden...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 10, 2023, 09:30:33 PM
Dame at 64 should be a lot of help.

Sixers got their vengeance.

Play in lotto team is our best outcome.
Title: RJ
Post by: chipstern on February 10, 2023, 09:38:19 PM
Four years in...

And RJ has no touch in the near field on what should be Jimmy Butler gimme.

Didn't launch too many shots and knocked down some threes, but...

A couple of skanky turnovers.

Good game, but we.faded in the fourth.

Hart would've come in handy against Maxey.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 10, 2023, 09:59:33 PM
Knicks have brought up our 2-Ways, Jeffries and Keels, to take a place on the Cam Reddish Memorial Pine.



UPGRADE
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 10, 2023, 10:43:32 PM
It's just retrograde with RJ.

Knicks have to move on this summer.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: LarryB! on February 10, 2023, 10:51:45 PM
Reddish started with Blazers.

5 points in first quarter

0 points last two months.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 11, 2023, 10:00:40 AM
Quote from: elephant on February 10, 2023, 10:43:32 PM
It's just retrograde with RJ.

Knicks have to move on this summer.

PuhLEESE

Hardly retrograde.

Has improved every year.

In a slump.  Much work to do.on D and that near field jumper.

6th Man Second Unit Beckons
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 11, 2023, 11:03:57 AM
Quote from: chipstern on February 11, 2023, 10:00:40 AM
Quote from: elephant on February 10, 2023, 10:43:32 PM
It's just retrograde with RJ.

Knicks have to move on this summer.

PuhLEESE

Hardly retrograde.

Has improved every year.

In a slump.  Much work to do.on D and that near field jumper.

6th Man Second Unit Beckons

Chip, I'm not being snarky.

I don't see it at all.

He got an extension over 100 million dollars. That's a wild amount of wealth.

And in return? I see no signs of improvements on either end of the floor. And his defense, weirdly, seems to be getting worse.

This is a real issue, even if....

"He's only 22."

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 11, 2023, 11:48:43 AM
He is only 22.

But he's already had as many NBA minutes as Cam Reddish & Kevin Knox combined.

It is definitely time to show.

His finish near the rim is better (though just steps up from awful) and he can use both hands now. His decision making and three point shooting are unchanged. His defense is markedly worse. Fournier is genuinely a better all around defender...not to mention New Guy, who will be echelons above.

Last time we were this down on him RJ woke up and went on a real tear. We need him to do that again and show consistency going forward.

Otherwise he tops out as a THjr kind of player - a guy you can use, even start if you have to, but don't really want to, and whom the use of signifies you are sorely lacking the real deal.

We've invested a whole lot in him, we need him at a higher level whether he plays a role in us winning or we want to move him as part of the package for the Anunoby, DM or Dame.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 11, 2023, 12:49:29 PM
20-6-3
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 11, 2023, 02:01:57 PM
(Sigh)

If you can't see it, you can't see it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 11, 2023, 02:15:44 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on February 11, 2023, 11:48:43 AM

We've invested a whole lot in him, we need him at a higher level whether he plays a role in us winning or we want to move him as part of the package for the Anunoby, DM or Dame.


This.

I'm still pulling for RJ.

But at this point, there's nothing he doesn't seem to do anything extremely well.

He's a good player in the NBA. Sure. But more than that? When the Knicks start consistently beating top teams, grit, hustle, intensity and maybe some swagger will probably be a strong feature. I don't see him as part of that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 11, 2023, 03:23:36 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 11, 2023, 02:01:57 PM
(Sigh)

If you can't see it, you can't see it.

Strong building need many boulder


- Indian Confucius
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 11, 2023, 04:23:28 PM
Ah, the Indian Confucius!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 11, 2023, 04:34:31 PM
You know what I am saying Elephant.  No.  RJ at his current stature isn't earning 30 mil but all winning teams need blocks like him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 11, 2023, 06:31:41 PM
Yeah, I hear you.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 11, 2023, 06:47:08 PM
(https://scontent-lga3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/330028937_503100891981636_7678133731817858945_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=5FGtmzfjPIUAX8HsZNu&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-2.xx&oh=00_AfDEQKKmHqIRt6amVN7OH2bxw1FqngHYdBkn2hTzRldMkg&oe=63EE0A67)
Title: RJ
Post by: chipstern on February 11, 2023, 07:43:52 PM
Opens with a UFO a Turnover and a clanked lay up.

Yikes. 

Come on kid.  Let the game come to you. 
Title: Nyets
Post by: chipstern on February 11, 2023, 08:05:40 PM
C: Nic Claxton, Day'Ron Sharpe
PF: Cameron Johnson, Dorian-Finney Smith
SF: Mikal Bridges, Joe Harris, Yuta Watanabe, Royce O'Neal
SG: Cam Thomas, Seth Curry, Edmond Sumner
PG: Spencer Dimwiddie, Patty Mills, Ben Simmons

Don't look now, but the Nyets have a nice team. 
Title: Asked & Answered
Post by: chipstern on February 11, 2023, 08:06:42 PM
So, who would drop out of Thibs' rotation to accomodate Hart?

McBride.
Title: Chip Has A Hart On
Post by: chipstern on February 11, 2023, 08:18:51 PM
Wheeling

Dealing

Stealing

Three assists so far. 

Oh, DOCTOR. 

Josh
Title: Jazz
Post by: chipstern on February 11, 2023, 08:29:38 PM
I believe Ainge got, what, four #1s from the Wolves in 23-25-27-29. 

Most of the Wolves "players" are gone. 

But rookie center Walker Kessler, the Wolves 2022 #22 pick, remains. 

Impressive. 
Title: Closing Out Quarters
Post by: chipstern on February 11, 2023, 08:41:56 PM
Just like last night. 

Giving away clusters of points at quarters' end. 

Not a good look, considering how well Knicks are playing otherwise. 

Sigh
Title: Hmmmm
Post by: chipstern on February 11, 2023, 09:50:02 PM
Brunson, Randle, Barrett each with +20.

Josh Hart as advertised.

200% DAWG.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 11, 2023, 10:01:02 PM
What a debut!

Actually the Hart/Hartenstein combo was battling!

Nice game by RJ.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 11, 2023, 10:19:47 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 11, 2023, 10:01:02 PM
What a debut!

Actually the Hart/Hartenstein combo was battling!

Nice game by RJ.

20-6-3

Coincidentally, RJ's 2022-23 season average. 

Best opening night for a new Knick since LaTrell Sprewell.

Wally and Hahn pointing out that it seemed as if Hart got every one of those fucking 50/50 rebounds we've been missing at critical fourth quarter juncture.

DAWG: "Repent."
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 12, 2023, 12:00:40 AM
I think Heart cracks our top eight.

His wing leadership can help Grimes and RJ. He exemplifies the standard Thibs wants set.

With a healthy Mitch this team should win a lot of extra possessions.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 12, 2023, 12:03:42 AM
As for the front office, the vets they have acquired are providing value just being themselves. That is Brunson, Hartenstein and now Hart. We are not getting guys hoping to turn them into players they have never been.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 12, 2023, 02:00:05 AM
Thank You

One game and Hart emerges as a leader, and brought out the best in Jalen, Julius, RJ. Quick and Isaiah.

 Not just a dawg, but a heady player.

And when he nailed those first pair of treys, oh man.  Reminded me of the Celtics Satch Sanders, a heady gritty role player.

He and Brunson were like Peaches and Herb.

REUNITED AND IT FEELS SO GOOD.

Meanwhile, over on Atlantic and Flatbush, their brother Mikal brought his A Game

🔥🔊🔥
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 12, 2023, 11:13:56 AM
Quote from: chipstern on February 11, 2023, 10:19:47 PM

Wally and Hahn pointing out that it seemed as if Hart got every one of those fucking 50/50 rebounds we've been missing at critical fourth quarter juncture.

DAWG: "Repent."

I surrender. YUM.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 12, 2023, 01:47:40 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on February 12, 2023, 11:13:56 AM
Quote from: chipstern on February 11, 2023, 10:19:47 PM

Wally and Hahn pointing out that it seemed as if Hart got every one of those fucking 50/50 rebounds we've been missing at critical fourth quarter juncture.

DAWG: "Repent."

I surrender. YUM.

💛🔥💛🔥💛

You've Gotta Have H[e]art

🌪🔊🌪
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 12, 2023, 02:25:23 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 12, 2023, 01:47:40 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on February 12, 2023, 11:13:56 AM
Quote from: chipstern on February 11, 2023, 10:19:47 PM

Wally and Hahn pointing out that it seemed as if Hart got every one of those fucking 50/50 rebounds we've been missing at critical fourth quarter juncture.

DAWG: "Repent."

I surrender. YUM.

💛🔥💛🔥💛

You've Gotta Have H[e]art

🌪🔊🌪

Think Josh's old Lakers and Nova teammates were psyched.

30 + All Stars

Julius with that behind the back feed to IQ  for the trey.

 Nets are going to be TOUGH
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 12, 2023, 04:07:27 PM
Stanley Johnson might be waived so the Spurs can lock up Bassey who they have ona two way.

I like Johnson a lot for one of our open spots. He is a strong short three four who has grown into himself a lot since his Detroit days and has had a finish under Pop.

We have three guards of whom we play two in Brunson, IQ and Deuce.

We have three wings which all play in RJ, Grimes and Hart.

We have two forwards who both play, though we can argue about the ratio, in Jules and Obi.

We have three bigs and use two among Mitch, Hartenstein and Sims.

Johnson, to a lesser extent but similarly to Hart, is not a big numbers guy or sharpshooter but does Thibs things at a high rate. He would make a good break glass rotation filler for us at either forward or wing.

He would help us with guys who are too quick for Randle or Obi and too big for RJ, Grimes, and Hart.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 12, 2023, 05:13:35 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 12, 2023, 04:07:27 PM
Stanley Johnson might be waived so the Spurs can lock up Bassey who they have ona two way.

I like Johnson a lot for one of our open spots. He is a strong short three four who has grown into himself a lot since his Detroit days and has had a finish under Pop.

We have three guards of whom we play two in Brunson, IQ and Deuce.

We have three wings which all play in RJ, Grimes and Hart.

We have two forwards who both play, though we can argue about the ratio, in Jules and Obi.

We have three bigs and use two among Mitch, Hartenstein and Sims.

Johnson, to a lesser extent but similarly to Hart, is not a big numbers guy or sharpshooter but does Thibs things at a high rate. He would make a good break glass rotation filler for us at either forward or wing.

He would help us with guys who are too quick for Randle or Obi and too big for RJ, Grimes, and Hart.

Good idea

Has Reddish size and defends.

We apparently HAVE to fill those two spots.  League rules.

Stanley Johnson?

LARRY JOHNSON

[Carmelo?]
Title: Buyouts
Post by: chipstern on February 12, 2023, 07:59:23 PM
Don't think we have a shot.

And would be kind of an insult to Rose and Fournier.

But Patrick Beverley would be a nice 🐕 to help Hart pull that sled.

MUSH

Title: Re: Buyouts
Post by: chipstern on February 12, 2023, 08:03:09 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 12, 2023, 07:59:23 PM
Don't think we have a shot.

And would be kind of an insult to Rose and Fournier.

But Patrick Beverley would be a nice 🐕 to help Hart pull that sled.

MUSH

Don't think he would wanna sit on the pine, and I understand his back ain't fine and his expiration date might be past his time....

But

Serge Ibaka

PS: Danny Green to Cavs
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 13, 2023, 09:55:36 AM
Two open spots?  Jimmer is still in shape.  And we lost Arch...so.....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 13, 2023, 09:56:37 AM
But no....seriously??  Dwight Howard.
Title: Knicks VS Nyets: SUBTEXT
Post by: chipstern on February 13, 2023, 12:37:28 PM
Jalen Brunson & Josh Hart Versus Mikal Bridges

Obviously, the Villinova Connection

But LEST WE FORGET

Cameron Johnson Versus Julius Randle

Sentient Knicks fans might recall a game, where Julius lost his cool and precipitated a man a mano by pushing Cameron J in the back as a reaction to a perceived cheap shot.

Cam responded by lighting the Knicks up from Trey and sealing our doom.

WE SHALL SEE
Title: I Have A Hart On
Post by: chipstern on February 13, 2023, 09:35:31 PM
Repentance Will

Not

Suffice
Title: Re: I Have A Hart On
Post by: chipstern on February 13, 2023, 09:48:38 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 13, 2023, 09:35:31 PM
Repentance Will

Not

Suffice

🐕🐕💥🐕🐕💥🐕🐕💥🐕🐕
Title: 🏀💣💣🏀💣💣🏀💣💣
Post by: chipstern on February 13, 2023, 10:30:40 PM
Pretty good stroke for a dawg who can't shoot
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 13, 2023, 11:27:31 PM
I swear, I got no more words to eat!!!!!

(speaking of eating, he ate up all the Deuce minutes, a couple of Grimes & Quicks, now he is nibbling on RJz. Eat up son, go get fat.)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 13, 2023, 11:52:41 PM
Got to keep it rolling against the Hawks and then we have to confirm it in March when we see the Nyets for the final in our series, but damn that felt like a strong win even though we left meat on the bone.

The big minute guys were JB,Randle, Hart and IQ. RJ, Grimes and the centers played about half the game. This seems sustainable. It was nice that Deuce got a little action as well.

This could be a better than expected stretch run.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 14, 2023, 12:26:17 AM
The shocking development is the level that Brunson has been playing at.

It's now a fair question to consider that he may have brought the Knicks just as much value as Donovan Mitchell would have.

(or even more??!!)

I mean, it's startling and wonderful to even be able to consider that question.

Good Times in Knickland!
Title: Yes
Post by: carlos123 on February 14, 2023, 12:52:58 AM
JR is still King Julius.

But Brunson right now is our superstar.

And I was thinking the same thing. He probably brings more to the table, to our table anyway, than Donovan Mitchell could have.

Only two games with Hart, but he does seem to make everyone better.

And soooo satisfying to see a dominant team performance where the end result was never in doubt in the second half.

Now, if we only brought Jimmer, and maybe Dwight Howard, to replace somebody in the rotation, Chamaco would be very happy.
Title: Au Contraire, Don Carlos
Post by: chipstern on February 14, 2023, 07:33:37 AM
DM would have brought a considerable, commensurate amount to the table as what we are seeing with him and Garland.

The issue was never DM, but the price.  STEEP.

Quickley and/or Grimes, minimally, would've been goners.  Figure RJ and Obi as well.  And mucho draft capital.

Who knows.

Look how IQ has advanced, as a facilitator, defender and scorer.

Meanwhile, in only two games, Hart has impacted the team culture, helped raise Jalen's game even higher and applied a competitive blow torch to McBride, Grimes, IQ and RJ.

The way Josh helped fuel the second half charge besides JB.  Damn

Was in tears.

Josh and IQ ain't Donovan.  No sir. 

But they are Knicks on the ascent, like JR and JB.
Title: You guys really do like bones better than steak!
Post by: lesterluv on February 14, 2023, 09:25:44 AM
lol...I keep telling you the price for DM was DIRT CHEAP, we know it, it was reported reliably

three picks that wouldn't have added up to (*ish....

RJ Barrett...then, either Quick or Obi..Obi doesn't play, Quick is replaced by a higher power

Getting rid of RJ would be a HUGE NET POSITIVE BY ITSELF

He is not a BOULDER, lol.....he is HOT fucking TRASH.....

As nice as the Hart pickup is it creates a problem, we may never have the opportunity to get any value for RJ again. Really wish he'd gone out at deadline, summer may be too late, four years of EXPENSIVE ZERO BASKETBALL IQ ZERO DEVELOPMENT SUCKITUDE

You guy like bones better than steak...like fighting to keep out of the playin better than fighting for home court into the second round ...da truth is da truth, if we had DM which would have been in addition to JB, we are right up there in East top four...with no ceiling....y'all got nosebleeds, but more importantly, Leon got a nosebleed


BOTTOM LINE MATH...LATE PICKS DON'T MATTER...OBI DOESN'T PLAY, BENEFIT OF GETTING RID OF RJ OVERCOMES LOSS OF IQ

basically you get:

Donovan Mitchell for Free
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 14, 2023, 09:30:29 AM
shit is breaking apart for RJ now

cause he thought he was gonna be number one guy..now he's barely number four guy, doesn't deserve that spot

teammates don't give an F about mandate to play him

they wanna play basketball and RJ is a complete assclown

OBI shows him the ass

https://twitter.com/UsherNBA/status/1625033687858573318 (https://twitter.com/UsherNBA/status/1625033687858573318)

lmao..below is who RJ thinks he is..

https://twitter.com/TheHoopCentral/status/1625300823076139011 (https://twitter.com/TheHoopCentral/status/1625300823076139011)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 14, 2023, 10:21:45 AM
I want it on record that I did NOT bring DM up, was sitting there happy as a clam enjoying the latest developments in our journey


*** but when you scraps-instead-of-steak loving, RJ worshipping, draft pick obsessed, satisfied with a doctors office lollipop MFers do so, I feel compelled to speak the truth

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 14, 2023, 10:23:25 AM
have I mentioned before that RJ has the basketball IQ of an iodine-deficient hedgehog?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 14, 2023, 10:32:57 AM
Damn, Lester, remember your blood pressure! Someone nudges you in line and you're taking out your 45!

On my part, I just offered the notion that Brunson may well turn out to be a greater force than Mitchell.

You got an opinion about that?

Title: ya wouldn't want the best thing since the Pearl & Clyde wore the same jerseys?
Post by: lesterluv on February 14, 2023, 10:43:23 AM
Yeah I have an opinion about that...it was NOT either/or, it was PLUS ONE

if in fact, Brunson turns out to be a greater force than Mitchell

we missed out on a chance to have an all time great NBA backcourt

and being in EC championship discussion for years to come...

*** folks love their scraps and Barretts and so low first rounders that they are almost second round picks tho...


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 14, 2023, 10:44:25 AM
excuse me I have to check out and go to my meditation room

think it was the RJ is a boulder comment that lodged in my tract like a kidney stone, had to pass it, all good now
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 14, 2023, 11:02:20 AM
you know when you go to the amusement park and for the prehistoric back-in-time dinosaur theme rides they have those fake boulders made out of styrofoam and painted grey?
Title: Glorious quotes
Post by: carlos123 on February 14, 2023, 12:32:30 PM
Quote from: 🐶 on February 14, 2023, 10:44:25 AM
excuse me I have to check out and go to my meditation room

think it was the RJ is a boulder comment that lodged in my tract like a kidney stone, had to pass it, all good now

Hey, doggie🐶, the boulder quote came from none other than your friend Chamaco.

But, most important, you changed your line about Ashli, and me and Chamaco miss it, for different reasons, obviously.

Please, put it back in there *** Mike Byrd said, Would that be Ashli, Ashley or Ashlee? Can never be sure with you white trash types." BAM!***

Now, I know it was not an either or, but if it was, who would you choose? And dont tell me both, we all know that.
Title: Re: Au Contraire, Don Carlos
Post by: carlos123 on February 14, 2023, 12:37:51 PM
Quote from: Chip on February 14, 2023, 07:33:37 AM
Meanwhile, in only two games, Hart has impacted the team culture, helped raise Jalen's game even higher and applied a competitive blow torch to McBride, Grimes, IQ and RJ.

Deuce is out of the rotation, what with the SACRED number 9.

Like I said to my doggie, we all know it was not an either or. I was just agreeing with elephant in that Jalen may, MAY, be a superstar equal OR GREATER than Donovan.
Title: The still is just as good as the vid...
Post by: lesterluv on February 14, 2023, 12:57:40 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FoydIagaYAEKjVk?format=jpg&name=small)

Check out Jalen & Josh, lol...jeez our $120 Million boulder is such a nitwit.
Title: Re: The still is just as good as the vid...
Post by: carlos123 on February 14, 2023, 01:14:04 PM
Quote from: 🐶 on February 14, 2023, 12:57:40 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FoydIagaYAEKjVk?format=jpg&name=small)

Check out Jalen & Josh, lol...jeez our $120 Million boulder is such a nitwit.

Hey Les, thanks for restoring your immortal line about Ashli. I added it to mine as an emergency measure, but now that is there I am gonna keep it for a while if you dont mind.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 14, 2023, 01:47:37 PM
The Knicks are gonna have to take the five seed and knock out the Cavs in the first round for there to be any peace around here again.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 14, 2023, 03:13:18 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 14, 2023, 01:47:37 PM
The Knicks are gonna have to take the five seed and knock out the Cavs in the first round for there to be any peace around here again.

Yeah, I was eyeing that the other day.

5th is the destination.

And then the historic eradication of the Cavs.

That works for me.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 14, 2023, 03:30:17 PM
I'd love it!

(Of course, in the subsequent round, the one in which Jrue or Marcus locks up Brunson, and RJ throws up three consecutive 4-16s, the devil would inevitably return. You F up Fate you gotta pay sooner or later.)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 14, 2023, 04:04:16 PM
As long as we scrapped and made it interesting I would be good.

RJ is looking at the first instance of having to master a limited role and find impact and efficiency within it. RJ has to become positive on the floor at some point this season or his role will continue to diminish. It is the Kansas stage for RJ of what hopefully is a path similar in arc to Grimes in HS, then Kansas, then U of H. There is a performance bar in terms of overall wing play set by Hart and to a lesser extent Grimes that RJ needs to reach or exceed to regain his status as a major player.

He should look to shed weight and bump his cardio over the break so he can come back as a slightly faster and more energetic player.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 14, 2023, 05:28:40 PM
Reddish 2-8 in Portland win

Team is 1-1, Cam at 40% shooting (6-15) in 18.5 minutes per.  Thybule arrived, so there is that.......

I wonder if Blazers fans will champion Reddish.
Title: Portents
Post by: chipstern on February 14, 2023, 09:27:56 PM
Enjoyed Dawg and everyone's take.

RJ has had stretches where he hit a wall before, and always bounced back.

High character, competitive young man with no rear view mirror.

Thing is, I do believe that his biggest supporter, THIBS, projected him as the second coming of Jimmy Butler. 

Thing is, Thibs already has serious man love for Josh Hart, whose impact on Brunson, IQ, IH, JR and the entire team has been surreal. 

Josh has inspired Jalen to raise his game to heroic levels, and embodied Thibs' ideal of a two way Knick. 

Thibs ain't gonna toss RJ under the bus, but he loves Rose and Deuce, and yet Nine is 9 is NINE.

Here is the Tale Of The Minutes from the Nets game, a portent of things to come.

Brunson [36] +23
Hart [28]+25
IQ [28]+23
RJ [24]-7
Grimes [22]-3

Julius [32]+14
Obi [16]+4
Isaiah [24]+29

And who have been closing out?

Isaiah
Julius
Josh
IQ
Jalen

Welcome to our playoff push, as we await the return of Mitchell.

Let's enjoy the playoff push, and don't write off RJ. 
Title: Word In Progress
Post by: chipstern on February 14, 2023, 09:33:27 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 14, 2023, 04:04:16 PM
As long as we scrapped and made it interesting I would be good.

RJ is looking at the first instance of having to master a limited role and find impact and efficiency within it. RJ has to become positive on the floor at some point this season or his role will continue to diminish. It is the Kansas stage for RJ of what hopefully is a path similar in arc to Grimes in HS, then Kansas, then U of H. There is a performance bar in terms of overall wing play set by Hart and to a lesser extent Grimes that RJ needs to reach or exceed to regain his status as a major player.

He should look to shed weight and bump his cardio over the break so he can come back as a slightly faster and more energetic player.

Agree. 

But Grimes has been slumping on offense as well. 

The THIBSIAN Dynamic is in place. 

It's Jalen & Julius and everything else is up for grabs. 

I don't think Thibs is going to change his starting five.

However?

RJ, Grimes, IQ, Hart

A competitive scrum, and as a well-travelled vet, with a strong bond to Jalen, we can expect Josh Hart to eat into RJ & Grimes' minutes and raise the bar for expectations of floor time. 

I mean, when Brunson is taking a breather, an IQ & Hart backcourt gives us scoring, shooting, defense and a pair of competent facilitators. 

NOTHING BUT GOOD CAN COME OF THIS. 

Hawks on their home floor a big test of this work in progress. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 15, 2023, 12:51:17 AM
I love RJ, but am still waiting on him to develop that soft little touch 10-12 footer off the bounce, jumpers off the dribble and movement off the ball on back cuts and screens. Kid has guts and character, and no rear view mirror.
 
Thibs loves RJ, and isn't going to toss
him under the bus, but both RJ AND GRIMES, can look to see a considerable share of minutes going to Hart and IQ, who look to close out games with Hartenstein, Randle and Brunson. Hartenstein and IQ both have a nice chemistry with Hart, and Isaiah has made a good case for closing minutes, even when Mitchell gets back.

Brunson is playing like Mister Fantastic, even as Randle is the Thing, Hart the Human Torch and IQ [the Silver Surfer]. Right now RJ is the Invisible Girl, but he'll be back, just as he has time and time again over the three seasons. Still, right NOW, Hart checks off all the boxes needing checking, and fits Thibs vision, a better complement to stellar play of Brunson and Randle.

Hart is comfortable as a jack of all trades, chief cook and bottle washer, all the little shit that needs doing. A GLUE GUY. Hartenstein, Randle, Hart, IQ, Brunson--that's the hookup.

RJ's more accustomed to being, as  has been on 8thpointed out, THE LEAD DOG. Trouble is, when Thibs says, "MUSH, motherfuckers." Hart's experience and leadership will make him the lead Huskie for our Eskimo King, JALEN BRUNSON.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 15, 2023, 10:12:11 AM
As I had earlier figured Hart takes ALL of the Deuce minutes then some from the other three.  Depends on the night.  Rotationwise pretty much an even Hart for McBride keeping us at 9 primarily.  Nets need to do some of the same.  Bench guyls like Yuta and Joe Harris.  Come up with a ten and run with it.  Listening Jacques?  We shall see
Title: Re: Au Contraire, Don Carlos
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 15, 2023, 10:23:11 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 14, 2023, 12:37:51 PM
Quote from: Chip on February 14, 2023, 07:33:37 AM
Meanwhile, in only two games, Hart has impacted the team culture, helped raise Jalen's game even higher and applied a competitive blow torch to McBride, Grimes, IQ and RJ.

Deuce is out of the rotation, what with the SACRED number 9.

Like I said to my doggie, we all know it was not an either or. I was just agreeing with elephant in that Jalen may, MAY, be a superstar equal OR GREATER than Donovan.

Will have that chance.  Lets see the big baskets to win games.  Its coming I know.

TRUST LEON
Title: Re: Word In Progress
Post by: elephant on February 15, 2023, 10:32:02 AM
Quote from: chipstern on February 14, 2023, 09:33:27 PM
. 

But Grimes has been slumping on offense as well. 


Grime's slumping is expected as a natural part of his evolution.

RJ's slumping is expected because that's what he has always done.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 15, 2023, 10:37:21 AM
Quote from: chipstern on February 15, 2023, 12:51:17 AM

RJ's more accustomed to being, as  has been on 8thpointed out, THE LEAD DOG. Trouble is, when Thibs says, "MUSH, motherfuckers." Hart's experience and leadership will make him the lead Huskie for our Eskimo King, JALEN BRUNSON.


If RJ was the lead dog, it's fair to observe that other lead dogs led their packs to the destination, while we were often left in a distant snow bank.

(hey, it's your metaphor)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 15, 2023, 10:39:57 AM
Note. My criticism of RJ in the last year or so has nothing to do with a great game or a terrible one.

I'm hoping he gets his head straight, starts playing well, helps us deep into the playoffs, and then......

gets sent somewhere in the summer.

This seems to me the most sane and hopeful vision for the team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 15, 2023, 03:42:52 PM
Note: RJ usually goes on his patented late-season tear only when the barrage of criticism reaches its very apex.

Therefore...

It is extremely important that we do not let up on our beloved boulder prior to tonight's game.

In that spirit, and with the highest intentions possible, I will repost the hands-up in the classroom photo hourly until tip-off.


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FoydIagaYAEKjVk?format=jpg&name=small)

Title: Summer
Post by: chipstern on February 15, 2023, 06:08:14 PM
Dump RJ?

Bullshit
Title: WOW
Post by: chipstern on February 15, 2023, 08:41:57 PM
Okay Knicks.

Let's come out in the third and put Hawks out of their misery.
Title: Re: WOW
Post by: chipstern on February 15, 2023, 09:22:00 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 15, 2023, 08:41:57 PM
Okay Knicks.

Let's come out in the third and put Hawks out of their misery.

Crappy third quarter.

Yet still up 15.

No letdown, motherfuckers.

🔊
Title: Sweet
Post by: chipstern on February 15, 2023, 10:05:25 PM
🚫🔊🚫

33-27

Sixth Spot In The East
Title: Re: Sweet
Post by: chipstern on February 15, 2023, 10:07:23 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 15, 2023, 10:05:25 PM
🚫🔊🚫

33-27

Sixth Spot In The East

THIBS

Lives To Coach
Another
Day

🔥⏰️🔥
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 15, 2023, 10:53:22 PM
That is exactly how you want to head into break, with a wire to wire road win.

We can make life really difficult for people.

Also two guys over 25 and 6 total in double figures.

The kids, with the exception of Quickley and Toppin need to figure out how to get their groove at this new serious no nonsense pace, but that does not stop this team being highly productive and getting a good number on the scoreboard.

Not everyone has to be on every night so long as more than enough are on to secure the victory.

This is gonna be a fun stretch run.

The Hawks look ready to be disassembled in the off-season.

Brooklyn shows no signs of laying down or giving up, the other half of the reason we are now in sixth.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 16, 2023, 07:01:50 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 15, 2023, 10:53:22 PM
That is exactly how you want to head into break, with a wire to wire road win.

We can make life really difficult for people.

Also two guys over 25 and 6 total in double figures.

The kids, with the exception of Quickley and Toppin need to figure out how to get their groove at this new serious no nonsense pace, but that does not stop this team being highly productive and getting a good number on the scoreboard.

Not everyone has to be on every night so long as more than enough are on to secure the victory.

This is gonna be a fun stretch run.

The Hawks look ready to be disassembled in the off-season.

Brooklyn shows no signs of laying down or giving up, the other half of the reason we are now in sixth.

YUP
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 16, 2023, 08:42:45 AM
Funny game.  Knicks seem so superior to Hawks but if they played 2 weeks from now it could look different

Good win.

Title: Re: Sweet
Post by: carlos123 on February 16, 2023, 02:03:05 PM
Quote from: Chip on February 15, 2023, 10:07:23 PM

THIBS

Lives To Coach
Another
Day

🔥⏰️🔥

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AMWts8AnWZVZoScV1jOqKSeHXR25T8no35yysaC9zoJUL0ZdEM8OQZIK789OkpaJj80xVH4eOp8379bhUCdSYTtZLGIhR0FdXttahrn_m2kr0txBdmd24mcuahvnNVAnP77vywGeUXDqZp5XyA1pL5pLRSpW=w1278-h721-no?authuser=0)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 16, 2023, 04:07:05 PM
http://empiresportsmedia.com/new-york-knicks/knicks-weather-mitchell-robinsons-absence-with-isaiah-hartensteins-renaissance/ (http://empiresportsmedia.com/new-york-knicks/knicks-weather-mitchell-robinsons-absence-with-isaiah-hartensteins-renaissance/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 16, 2023, 05:25:56 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 16, 2023, 04:07:05 PM
http://empiresportsmedia.com/new-york-knicks/knicks-weather-mitchell-robinsons-absence-with-isaiah-hartensteins-renaissance/ (http://empiresportsmedia.com/new-york-knicks/knicks-weather-mitchell-robinsons-absence-with-isaiah-hartensteins-renaissance/)

Thanks. 

In extolling Isaiah's defense, shot blocking and relentless offensive rebounding, leave us not overlook his passing, and ESP, on both sides of the ball, particularly with Jason Hart.  Their chemistry on cuts, back doors and the old give and go are so telepathic, such beautiful old school hoops. 

(https://images.bstatic.de/18jGtMO0sLbz3NtiQF_DaJC7KUs=/956x540/filters:focal(886x594:906x614)/images/10412105/1f6d/415f/90ca/89fd3de7b9d7.jpg)

Chemistry Would Appear To Be Hartenstein's Middle Name


Title: Neon Leon
Post by: chipstern on February 16, 2023, 05:51:40 PM
The Chant From Post Menopausal Knicks Fans

"Fire Leon Rose.  He was supposed to get us a a superstar."

Jalen Brunson, Isaiah Hartenstein, Josh Hart

Obi Toppin, Immanuel Quickley, Quentin Grimes, Miles McBride, Jericho Sims [Rokas Jokubaitis, I know, I know, on ice in Madrid, so sue me] 

Neon has had his share of missteps, for sure, but has reshaped our roster, been prudent with our draft assets, resisted the call for Thibs' head, resisted the urge to engage in short term thinking and cannibalize our youth, resisted the fan & media pressure to go all in on the usurous demands of Danny Ainge for the much loved Donovan Mitchell...

B/B+ 

NOW LET'S MAKE A RUN FOR A 1-THROUGH-6 PLAYOFF SLOT
Title: ZION WILLIAMSON--A Postscript
Post by: chipstern on February 16, 2023, 06:09:03 PM
SuperStars R Us

In this his fourth season, the once and future superstar wet dream target of Knicks fans has played

24
61
ZERO
29-out of-59 games in 2022-23

Title: Jalen & Julius
Post by: chipstern on February 16, 2023, 06:19:23 PM
(https://heavy.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/jalen-brunson-4.jpg?quality=65&strip=all&w=780)
Title: Re: Neon Leon
Post by: carlos123 on February 16, 2023, 06:57:30 PM
Quote from: Chip on February 16, 2023, 05:51:40 PM
The Chant From Post Menopausal Knicks Fans

"Fire Leon Rose.  He was supposed to get us a a superstar."

Jalen Brunson, Isaiah Hartenstein, Josh Hart

Obi Toppin, Immanuel Quickley, Quentin Grimes, Miles McBride, Jericho Sims [Rokas Jokubaitis, I know, I know, on ice in Madrid, so sue me] 

Neon has had his share of missteps, for sure, but has reshaped our roster, been prudent with our draft assets, resisted the call for Thibs' head, resisted the urge to engage in short term thinking and cannibalize our youth, resisted the fan & media pressure to go all in on the usurous demands of Danny Ainge for the much loved Donovan Mitchell...

B/B+ 

NOW LET'S MAKE A RUN FOR A 1-THROUGH-6 PLAYOFF SLOT

True, thats why I put my former candidates on a basket, for the time being.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AMWts8Cr4xouM7qDnYgk1jkFhIWHERgw-FO_eHg_UepbAdSxidGPYc_z3t3IcZfk4sxu783759Qcrk2pmmLvlAAifTXySGPcYOQc3VYzcHq9r-zr0ip_hG7tx5ewAiqoZNZMAGJOvM7KvJfZLrDREoXI-o9j=w271-h330-no?authuser=0)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 16, 2023, 07:35:45 PM
Your humor is sharp

But your Phatwa is intellectually suspect

Mike Miller, Dawg and Chip

A weak field of candidates for head coach of the Knicks

Perhaps for the news desk on SNL

Not very seriously thought out

Just blood for blood's sake

Thibs' troops seems oddly supportive of their coach
Title: Phat what?
Post by: carlos123 on February 16, 2023, 07:55:48 PM
Quote from: Chipirin on February 16, 2023, 07:35:45 PM
Your humor is sharp

But your Phatwa is intellectually suspect

Mike Miller, Dawg and Chip

A weak field of candidates for head coach of the Knicks

Perhaps for the news desk on SNL

Not very seriously thought out

Just blood for blood's sake

Thibs' troops seems oddly supportive of their coach

Mike Millers head is not in the basket.
Just look at the avatars of recent posts.
And nobody is bleeding.
The basket symbolizes that I am giving up my bloodlust for Thibs head (for the time being).
But it would be nice if he gave up his SACRED number 9, gave some minutes to Deuce, and more minutes to Obi.
Besides, I was agreeing with your assertion about Thibs position. So whats your beef?
Title: Nine
Post by: chipstern on February 16, 2023, 08:40:45 PM
What is this strange obsession with the Number NINE?

It's not as if Thibs is the only coach who goes with a NineManRotation.  Celtics.  Bulls go eight deep.

Obi?  Last time I checked, Julius played 32 and Obi 16.

When there was an opening, Deuce got plenty of burn. 

And so whom is Thibs going to sit to create a more Bolivar Friendly, Egalitarian Rotation? 

We gonna take minutes away from Hart to give to Deuce?

We gonna take minutes away from Randle to give to Obi?

I LOVE DEUCE AND OBI. 

But they are where they are in the rotation because Josh and Julius are demonstrably better. 

When Mitchell comes back, my main man Jericho is going to sit. 

Thibs' reputation coming onboard was of never playing youngsters. 

How then do we account for how he has nurtured and developed Obi, IQ, Quentin, Deuce and Jericho. 

Cam didn't work out, and I was a Cam booster. 

Thibs elevated puppies, and sat Fournier, and his main man, Derek Rose. 

We all have issues with Thibs.

ME TOO. 

But he has a plan, he has a system.  Which has helped resusitate Julius, liberate Jalen to be a superhero, elevate the still imperfect RJ to a 20-6-3 player, and discipline Hartenstein to excel in his system. 

And with all the talk of the Knicks being willing to accept a couple of #2 picks for Cam, when Leon attached Arci and Svi and a #1 pick, he shoplifted a DIFFERENCE MAKER IN HART WHO HAS SUPERCHARGED Thibs' Rotation and seemingly validated his system and his rotation. 

Seemingly.  Bitch slapping the Hawks last night was SO FUCKING SATISFYING. 

Still a nine man rotation, and it IS STILL FUCKING WORKING.

So, I get your obsession with THIBS, but his system and philopsophy appears to be working. 

PS: As for the profligance of attaching our own protected #1 pick to get Josh Hart, when we were apparently unwilling to attach multiple #1s and multiple young players to score Donovan, well, that argument will never be resolved.  BUT PLEASE NOTE, if you check out a mock draft, NewYork's #1 pick is currently at #22, while the pick we still own of Dallas is at #17.  Our own second rounder is currently at #40. 

https://nbadraftroom.com/p/2023-nba-mock-draft/ (https://nbadraftroom.com/p/2023-nba-mock-draft/)
Title: Nine
Post by: carlos123 on February 16, 2023, 09:32:45 PM
Chip, first of all, I never had a problem with the way Leon Rose is managing the roster, so I dont know whats your point, and I never liked the idea of being raped by Danny boy.

Now, NINE, I understand thats Thibs system. What I object to is his inflexibility.

Where to get minutes for Deuce. How about from RJ? I dont have a problem with RJ, but he is not currently helping us win, or not to the extent that other players do.

Obi? That is more complicated because Julius is essential to our winning. How about sharing some minutes with him?

Now, Cam didnt work out. Ok, but did he have a chance?

As for playing youngsters, thats fine, but its not like Thibs had much choice with the roster we have, thankfully.
Title: Good Shit is Afoot!
Post by: elephant on February 16, 2023, 11:39:35 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 15, 2023, 06:08:14 PM
Dump RJ?

Bullshit

Trade, not dump.

And yeah, that's what we'll try to do this summer.

Look I get your twisted love for each and every human who puts on a Knicks uniform. And my guess is you married the first girl you ever kissed. So your purity is impressive.

But he's not what we need moving forward. He's got to move on. And so do you. You struggle to look unblinkingly at the team you love. It's not a black and white universe. Good shit is afoot! But yeah, they blew the Mitchell trade. Good shit is afoot! But, yeah, they've fucked up Obi's development. Good shit is afoot! But yeah, RJ does not have a future with the makeup of this team.

It's possible to embrace it all. I root for RJ! But it is what it is.

Meanwhile...

Good shit is afoot!
Title: Elephantasy
Post by: chipstern on February 16, 2023, 11:54:50 PM
K

And what leads you to believe the Knicks are going to trade RJ?

WISHING
AIN'T
FISHING
Title: Re: Neon Leon
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 17, 2023, 10:12:47 AM
Quote from: chipstern on February 16, 2023, 05:51:40 PM
The Chant From Post Menopausal Knicks Fans

"Fire Leon Rose.  He was supposed to get us a a superstar."

Jalen Brunson, Isaiah Hartenstein, Josh Hart

Obi Toppin, Immanuel Quickley, Quentin Grimes, Miles McBride, Jericho Sims [Rokas Jokubaitis, I know, I know, on ice in Madrid, so sue me] 

Neon has had his share of missteps, for sure, but has reshaped our roster, been prudent with our draft assets, resisted the call for Thibs' head, resisted the urge to engage in short term thinking and cannibalize our youth, resisted the fan & media pressure to go all in on the usurous demands of Danny Ainge for the much loved Donovan Mitchell...

B/B+ 

NOW LET'S MAKE A RUN FOR A 1-THROUGH-6 PLAYOFF SLOT

Yeah...made the point on another site - Leon still has an amcomplete but complete support

1 - would Rand le be playing this well had we added Mitchell?

2 - who do we now add in Mitchell's void?  TBD
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 17, 2023, 10:14:45 AM
BTBDBTW - can we please keep this positivity if we win only half our remaining games?  I have us winning 13 of them but if its 11-11 keep the faith.
Title: Re: Neon Leon
Post by: elephant on February 17, 2023, 10:29:46 AM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 17, 2023, 10:12:47 AM

Yeah...made the point on another site - Leon still has an amcomplete but complete support

1 - would Rand le be playing this well had we added Mitchell?

2 - who do we now add in Mitchell's void?  TBD

I think the answer is probably yes. Randle always needed another great ballplayer. Everything was on his back.

The more intriguing question is whether Brunson would have been this good with Mitchell.

Hey, I would have liked to see it! But truth is, you never know about the alchemy of a good team. All we know is that Brunson was given the keys to the car, the freedom to lead the team, and you see what he's done with it.
Title: Re: Good Shit is Afoot!
Post by: lesterluv on February 17, 2023, 10:30:46 AM
Quote from: elephant on February 16, 2023, 11:39:35 PM

Look I get your twisted love for each and every human who puts on a Knicks uniform. And my guess is you married the first girl you ever kissed. So your purity is impressive.

: )
Title: Re: Good Shit is Afoot!
Post by: chipstern on February 17, 2023, 05:15:28 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on February 17, 2023, 10:30:46 AM
Quote from: elephant on February 16, 2023, 11:39:35 PM

Look I get your twisted love for each and every human who puts on a Knicks uniform. And my guess is you married the first girl you ever kissed. So your purity is impressive.

: )

⚖️🎨⚖️

Esquire All-American Jazz Concert

Louis Armstrong (tp, vo)
Roy Eldridge (tp)
Jack Teagarden (tb, vo)
Barney Bigard; Benny Goodman (cl)
Coleman Hawkins (ts)
Art Tatum; Teddy Wilson (p)
Al Casey (g)
Oscar Pettiford (b)
Sid Catlett (d)
Lionel Hampton (vibes)
Red Norvo (xylophone)
Billie Holiday; Mildred Bailey (voc)

Metropolitan Opera House, January 18, 1944

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Gx5r5NaxO8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Gx5r5NaxO8)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 18, 2023, 11:27:40 PM
I am fine with our guys playing all star and rising stars games as warranted, but can we skip the shooting and dunking stuff? If there is a cash prize to go with the trophy then I can understand.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 19, 2023, 02:12:16 PM
Won my bet.  Even odds that Julius would have at least one air ball

Sims?  Not so good.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 19, 2023, 02:34:57 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 18, 2023, 11:27:40 PM
I am fine with our guys playing all star and rising stars games as warranted, but can we skip the shooting and dunking stuff? If there is a cash prize to go with the trophy then I can understand.

So what.

Proves nothing either way.

Julius launched an airball.

Launching plenty of first quarter makes

Tyler Herro anyone?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 19, 2023, 05:48:13 PM
Fun seeing Grimes making an impact. And I love GIddey's game. They're good together.

Facil, work your magic and get him in a Knicks uniform.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 19, 2023, 05:49:23 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 18, 2023, 11:27:40 PM
I am fine with our guys playing all star and rising stars games as warranted, but can we skip the shooting and dunking stuff? If there is a cash prize to go with the trophy then I can understand.

Yeah, the dunk competition is usually a cringe-fest. But last night, man, it was a kick!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 19, 2023, 06:24:08 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 19, 2023, 05:48:13 PM
Fun seeing Grimes making an impact. And I love GIddey's game. They're good together.

Facil, work your magic and get him in a Knicks uniform.

Say AHHHHHHHHHHH

(https://bn02pap001files.storage.live.com/y4m2qWaFNfX_okBbAGsmHpP3pptWLCitROiH7o8rVxUFfaR3byFgA8zI7-Vnw51UAbQ3ViolrI5Z6dHK720rU03bd8u7dC8IiJR0JPu9dgtakIzOfbJOs8Aalr0QG42Ygge4x-Hdga5ufeFAYb67MVE54yL3eweCDxnKdVSwxz5BRqRZsx83KbZDRpXKM4FrKvajsXHeE58oLX2Y8YttOLkXNCBEk5JZKXIC5aVlDFW5e0?width=394&height=347&cropmode=center)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 19, 2023, 08:27:03 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 19, 2023, 06:24:08 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 19, 2023, 05:48:13 PM
Fun seeing Grimes making an impact. And I love GIddey's game. They're good together.

Facil, work your magic and get him in a Knicks uniform.

Say AHHHHHHHHHHH

(https://bn02pap001files.storage.live.com/y4m2qWaFNfX_okBbAGsmHpP3pptWLCitROiH7o8rVxUFfaR3byFgA8zI7-Vnw51UAbQ3ViolrI5Z6dHK720rU03bd8u7dC8IiJR0JPu9dgtakIzOfbJOs8Aalr0QG42Ygge4x-Hdga5ufeFAYb67MVE54yL3eweCDxnKdVSwxz5BRqRZsx83KbZDRpXKM4FrKvajsXHeE58oLX2Y8YttOLkXNCBEk5JZKXIC5aVlDFW5e0?width=394&height=347&cropmode=center)

Jeremy Sochan, too, Facil.

And some lube for THIBS.

His 3&D Dream Date

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 19, 2023, 10:22:03 PM
We might need some help from Dallas to make it happen, but my sights are here for now,

http://nbadraftroom.com/taylor-hendricks/ (http://nbadraftroom.com/taylor-hendricks/)
Title: Donovan
Post by: chipstern on February 19, 2023, 10:28:29 PM
I know

I KNOW
Title: Still...
Post by: chipstern on February 20, 2023, 12:43:21 AM
Not that the NBA All Star confab in any way shape or form resembles a basketball game. 

More like a fashion show. 

Every possession where ANYONE plays defense, an angel gets its wings. 
Title: Re: Still...
Post by: LarryB! on February 20, 2023, 11:50:17 AM
Quote from: chipstern on February 20, 2023, 12:43:21 AM
Not that the NBA All Star confab in any way shape or form resembles a basketball game. 

More like a fashion show. 

Every possession where ANYONE plays defense, an angel gets its wings.

Janelle Monae in the cat suit and in the celebrity game was worth tuning into the festivities

(https://ic-cdn.flipboard.com/totalprosports.com/52859005f8d9d1c2a052010ccfa88d1f52d06787/_medium.webp)
Title: Waiver Wire
Post by: chipstern on February 20, 2023, 07:47:30 PM
Two of our opponents in the East, jostling for playoff berths, certainly got stronger. 

Kevin Love and Cody Zeller with Miami.

Patrick Beverley with Chicago. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 20, 2023, 08:17:51 PM
Yeah.

That said, I don't see anyone getting in the way of the Boston/Bucks eastern final.

(except maybe for the Knicks, of course).

Out west though, damn, who the fuck knows who's going to make it thru. Much more of a crapshoot.

Title: Clippers
Post by: chipstern on February 20, 2023, 08:25:46 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 20, 2023, 08:17:51 PM
Yeah.

That said, I don't see anyone getting in the way of the Boston/Bucks eastern final.

(except maybe for the Knicks, of course).

Out west though, damn, who the fuck knows who's going to make it thru. Much more of a crapshoot.

Clippers REALLY Stocked UP

Mason Plumlee
Eric Gordon
Bones Hyland

AND

Russell Westbrook

I am pulling for Westbrook with the Clippers. 

Thought he was hung out to dry by the Lakers and scapegoated for their struggles. 

He has surely lost a yard or two off his fastball, but is still a very dynamic presence. 

Better fit given Clippers outside firepower.  Better fit with Kawhi than he was with LeBron. 

We shall see.  I thought whomever characterized him as a vampire, well, THAT was a BIT MUCH. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 20, 2023, 09:35:40 PM
Well...if you like and respect D Ham then the "Russ got screwed" narrative simply does not fit.  Simply a decision made for the right reason.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 20, 2023, 10:51:47 PM
Saw the last couple of Clippers games and I'm a believer. They are loaded, healthy, and won't go down easily.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 21, 2023, 03:55:17 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on February 20, 2023, 09:35:40 PM
Well...if you like and respect D Ham then the "Russ got screwed" narrative simply does not fit.  Simply a decision made for the right reason.

The dumb move for the Lakers was bringing Russ in.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 21, 2023, 04:03:05 PM
Clips are tough, but Denver is still in the catbird seat.

A lot of teams look better on paper, including us.

Will Barton and R.J. Hampton join Stanley Johnson, Serge Ibaka and others as singable guys as we go forward with two spots open.

I do not think Pat Bev moves the needle much for the Bulls. I hope he has fun though.

I worry the new look Nyets could keep up their pace.

I am picking Philly out of the East if their health holds.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 21, 2023, 04:31:04 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 21, 2023, 04:03:05 PM

I am picking Philly out of the East if their health holds.


Wow. I don't see what you see.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 21, 2023, 06:07:00 PM
I do not see the Celtics frontcourt holding up against either Philly or the Bucks to be offset by their backcourt wing talent advantage.

I am following an inexplicable feeling telling me to trust Harden over GA this year once things get deep. I cannot say I have all that much invested in it. It is just a feeling.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 21, 2023, 11:25:34 PM
We were the final mail that got Nate canned.

New coach in Atlanta.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 22, 2023, 02:58:42 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 21, 2023, 11:25:34 PM
We were the final mail that got Nate canned.

New coach in Atlanta.

Poetic payback for fucking with Randle's head in the 2020 playoffs

We humiliated the HAWKS and that spelled Nate's doom.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 22, 2023, 03:26:16 PM
The brewing negative chemistry and long stretches of poor performance did him in. Our game was just the final straw.

I still think Nate is a good coach.

I am glad we have Thibs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 22, 2023, 04:10:28 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 22, 2023, 03:26:16 PM
The brewing negative chemistry and long stretches of poor performance did him in. Our game was just the final straw.

I still think Nate is a good coach.

I am glad we have Thibs.

Nets Big Three might still be here if Sean Marks had kept Kenny Atkinson, or had elevated Jacques Vaughan instead of the curious reach for Steve Nash
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 22, 2023, 07:42:34 PM
Nyets are so much better off now even factoring in the dead weight of Simmons.
Title: Gentle Ben
Post by: chipstern on February 22, 2023, 10:28:16 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 22, 2023, 07:42:34 PM
Nyets are so much better off now even factoring in the dead weight of Simmons.

Ben Simmons   
26 Years Old
6'10"
240

(https://images2.minutemediacdn.com/image/fetch/w_736,h_485,c_fill,g_auto,f_auto/https%3A%2F%2Fhoopshabit.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fgetty-images%2F2017%2F07%2F1437105578-850x560.jpeg)

2022-23  $35,448,672   
2023-24  $37,893,408   
2024-25  $40,338,144

Yikes   

https://nypost.com/2023/02/22/nets-running-out-of-time-to-find-right-role-for-ben-simmons/ (https://nypost.com/2023/02/22/nets-running-out-of-time-to-find-right-role-for-ben-simmons/)

2022-23   

42   Games
26.3  MPG
.566  FG%   
.439    FT%

6.9 PPG
6.3 REB
6.1 ASS
1.9 Steals

Title: KNICK ON WOOD [Rokas Jokubaitis...Yes, I Can Hear Y'all Snickering]
Post by: chipstern on February 22, 2023, 10:47:16 PM
FC Barcelona youngster Rokas Jokubaitis was drafted by the New York Knicks with the 34th pick in the 2021 NBA draft. The Lithuanian guard has been improving his craft in Europe ever since but the hope to debut in the NBA doesn't fade.

Spanish sports outlet Mundo Deportivo interviewed Knicks' head coach Tim Thibodeau who revealed that the club was impressed with Jokubaitis.

(https://www.proballers.com/media/cache/torso_player/ul/player/56160-3-60df6d54d3ca1.jpg)

BABY STEPS

https://www.proballers.com/basketball/player/70880/rokas-jokubaitis/games (https://www.proballers.com/basketball/player/70880/rokas-jokubaitis/games)

"It would be more a question for the front office but we liked it a lot when he played the Summer League," Thibodeau said. "I hope he has a good season and then in the summer, we'll see. But yes, I would like to see him."

Jokubaitis has a contract with Barcelona until the year 2025 but the deal features an NBA out after each season.
Title: Re: Gentle Ben
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 23, 2023, 11:25:32 AM
Quote from: chipstern on February 22, 2023, 10:28:16 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 22, 2023, 07:42:34 PM
Nyets are so much better off now even factoring in the dead weight of Simmons.

Ben Simmons   
26 Years Old
6'10"
240

(https://images2.minutemediacdn.com/image/fetch/w_736,h_485,c_fill,g_auto,f_auto/https%3A%2F%2Fhoopshabit.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fgetty-images%2F2017%2F07%2F1437105578-850x560.jpeg)

2022-23  $35,448,672   
2023-24  $37,893,408   
2024-25  $40,338,144

Yikes   

https://nypost.com/2023/02/22/nets-running-out-of-time-to-find-right-role-for-ben-simmons/ (https://nypost.com/2023/02/22/nets-running-out-of-time-to-find-right-role-for-ben-simmons/)

2022-23   

42   Games
26.3  MPG
.566  FG%   
.439    FT%

6.9 PPG
6.3 REB
6.1 ASS
1.9 Steals

Ya'all think Jacques is God.  Jacques wont play Simmons big minutes.  Lets see how it works out.  I think he should be out there 30+ every night - then we can see the number, the number of wins and we can talk.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 23, 2023, 05:22:34 PM
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/10065951-1-word-to-describe-every-nba-team-right-now (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/10065951-1-word-to-describe-every-nba-team-right-now)
Title: Bad NEWS, Good NEWS
Post by: chipstern on February 24, 2023, 07:55:42 PM
Bad News

Wizards are hammering us from three.

Good news?

Looks like their #1 might convey this summer.

☀️
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: LarryB! on February 24, 2023, 09:26:16 PM
Good win in DC!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 24, 2023, 09:30:39 PM
Quote from: LarryB! on February 24, 2023, 09:26:16 PM
Good win in DC!

Jalen shooting off.

But hit a tough one down the stretch.

HART

Julius out of his mind.

🖼🔔🖼
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 24, 2023, 09:31:51 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 24, 2023, 09:30:39 PM
Quote from: LarryB! on February 24, 2023, 09:26:16 PM
Good win in DC!

Jalen shooting off.

But charges, assists and hit a clutch one down the stretch.

HART

Julius out of his mind.

🖼🔔🖼
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 24, 2023, 10:05:22 PM
Jules caps it off with the cleanest shiny dime to Mitch. Beautiful!

Jalen caps a nine assist one turnover night with a crafty ass layup.

I would have taken this as a loss, but it is nice to get separation on Miami.

There was enough wobbly about our execution and evident post break rust. It gives Thibs some bellow fodder.

I think Deni could be a Thibs player.

The Wiz should get their shit together and win a lot when they aren
Title: Re: KNICK ON WOOD [Rokas Jokubaitis...Yes, I Can Hear Y'all Snickering]
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 25, 2023, 12:28:39 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 22, 2023, 10:47:16 PM
FC Barcelona youngster Rokas Jokubaitis was drafted by the New York Knicks with the 34th pick in the 2021 NBA draft. The Lithuanian guard has been improving his craft in Europe ever since but the hope to debut in the NBA doesn't fade.

Spanish sports outlet Mundo Deportivo interviewed Knicks' head coach Tim Thibodeau who revealed that the club was impressed with Jokubaitis.

(https://www.proballers.com/media/cache/torso_player/ul/player/56160-3-60df6d54d3ca1.jpg)

BABY STEPS

https://www.proballers.com/basketball/player/70880/rokas-jokubaitis/games (https://www.proballers.com/basketball/player/70880/rokas-jokubaitis/games)

"It would be more a question for the front office but we liked it a lot when he played the Summer League," Thibodeau said. "I hope he has a good season and then in the summer, we'll see. But yes, I would like to see him."

Jokubaitis has a contract with Barcelona until the year 2025 but the deal features an NBA out after each season.

yeah...he aint comin

More likely to be dealt (rights) than be a Knick.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 25, 2023, 12:33:08 PM
Oh, Jalen.......

Brunson had shot it very well in 9 of his last 10 but last night's 6-20 needed a Julius bailout.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 25, 2023, 03:14:30 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 25, 2023, 12:33:08 PM
Oh, Jalen.......

Brunson had shot it very well in 9 of his last 10 but last night's 6-20 needed a Julius bailout.

Which is a mark of a top-tier team. Getting a win when one of your stars is off.

We are getting pretty fucking good.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 25, 2023, 03:16:37 PM
I don't know if anyone saw that Clippers-Kings game last night (first team to 176 wins).

I've got to watch more Sacramento. They are a kick!
Title: RJ
Post by: chipstern on February 25, 2023, 10:18:16 PM
Barrett with a bounce back.

73 in the first half with a celebratory ass kicking.

DERRICK ROSE CHANTS

Satisfying

Celtics BECKON

🔔💥🔔
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 26, 2023, 12:04:21 AM
Spraying it around and being ready to shoot.

Starting forwards 9 of 17, starting guards 6 of 16. Nice balance for 15 of 33 from that group.

This game was probably the most complete realization of Thibs vision for how this team should play that we have seen so far.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 26, 2023, 08:22:59 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 26, 2023, 12:04:21 AM
Spraying it around and being ready to shoot.

Starting forwards 9 of 17, starting guards 6 of 16. Nice balance for 15 of 33 from that group.

This game was probably the most complete realization of Thibs vision for how this team should play that we have seen so far.

True Dat

Two seasons ago, after the Smith-Rose trade, Thibs' vision of his team coalesced into a strong run to the fourth seed.

Nate McMillan and the Hawks stymied Julius, Rose began to break down and we fell short.

The Walker-Fournier experiment faltered, Noel  could not remain ambulatory with no PG, Julius and Burks were taxed with too much responsibility. 

LEON learned from his miscues, Brunson has had a ripple effect, helping elevate Julius to new heights,  while Quickley, Grimes and Barrett have continued to grow, Hartenstein has given us a security blanket at the five spot, and rather than accept sevond rounders for Reddish, we used some of the draft capital we did not hand over to Ainge to plug Josh Hart into a wing rotation of Barrett and Grimes and Quickley which Thibs has carefully alloted minutes as they have steadily raised their collective game.

Now with Mitchell back, we enjoy a laugher at the Garden, and get ready for a do or die showdown with the formidable Celtics, as Thibs milks consistency and coherence from his Gang Of 9
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on February 26, 2023, 03:13:41 PM
Too funny WFAN moderater obviously a Net fan pointed out that if the Nets played only .500 they would be almost impossible to beat. What! they are now one of the worse teams in the NBA and the Knicks led by their three headed monster are one of the best.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 26, 2023, 03:49:27 PM
enjoying the ride right now

Inspired by the festivities, decided to look back at '73.

Out of 240 possible minutes in the five game championship series, 36-year old Wilt played all 240. Not unexpected I guess considering he once averaged 48.5 for a season. For the Knicks, Clyde was the only player over 200, 230 for an average of 46 per!

Thibs would approve.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 26, 2023, 07:04:50 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on February 26, 2023, 03:49:27 PM
enjoying the ride right now

Inspired by the festivities, decided to look back at '73.

Out of 240 possible minutes in the five game championship series, 36-year old Wilt played all 240. Not unexpected I guess considering he once averaged 48.5 for a season. For the Knicks, Clyde was the only player over 200, 230 for an average of 46 per!

Thibs would approve.

I watched that Gane 5.

Watching Clyde in the near field, backing in, using his body to get position, getting easy shots.

Jalen Brunson anyone?

Old School.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 26, 2023, 07:39:28 PM
The Wiz are doing their best to keep their pick this year.
Title: Oh Well
Post by: chipstern on February 26, 2023, 08:42:46 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 26, 2023, 07:39:28 PM
The Wiz are doing their best to keep their pick this year.

😄

We are now in a dead heat with the Nyets for the #5 seed.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 26, 2023, 09:09:53 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 26, 2023, 07:39:28 PM
The Wiz are doing their best to keep their pick this year.

Meanwhile, speaking of #1 picks conveying?

Dallas is 1-3 since the Kyrie Irving trade.

Life Am GOOD

👍
Title: Ommmmmmmm
Post by: chipstern on February 27, 2023, 03:47:06 PM
If all is right...

A fourth quarter Derrick Rose Chant Tonight

🕶😎🕶

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 27, 2023, 05:57:29 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 26, 2023, 09:09:53 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 26, 2023, 07:39:28 PM
The Wiz are doing their best to keep their pick this year.

Meanwhile, speaking of #1 picks conveying?

Dallas is 1-3 since the Kyrie Irving trade.

Life Am GOOD

👍

Incorrect.  They won first 2 with Kyrie and no Luka.  4-4 overall.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on February 27, 2023, 06:00:37 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 25, 2023, 03:16:37 PM
I don't know if anyone saw that Clippers-Kings game last night (first team to 176 wins).

I've got to watch more Sacramento. They are a kick!

In memory of Bo....  Kings made right move dealing his guy Halliburton.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 27, 2023, 10:00:01 PM
We are getting pretty fucking good!
Title: Sigh Moan Bowling Bar
Post by: chipstern on February 27, 2023, 10:07:58 PM
Thibs?

Repentance?

Prostrate Yourself, Nueve9Grande.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 27, 2023, 10:20:23 PM
Props to Thibs.

Minutes?

IQ & Hart closing.

IQ, 31
Hart, 27
RJ, 26
Grimes, 21

Defense.

Mitchell crushed Williams and Horford

Won despite 23-34 FTs. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 27, 2023, 10:34:53 PM
Celts we
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on February 27, 2023, 10:58:13 PM
Quote from: chipstern on February 27, 2023, 10:20:23 PM
Props to Thibs.

Minutes?

IQ & Hart closing.

IQ, 31
Hart, 27
RJ, 26
Grimes, 21

Defense.

Mitchell crushed Williams and Horford

Won despite 23-34 FTs.

Grimes diminishing (5, 9 and 5 last three games in shorter minutes) Leon said, "hey, this kid will be good but I aint bettin he can do the job completely in this pivotal year"

Enter Hart.

TRUST IN LEON.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 27, 2023, 11:16:47 PM
I liked the moment in the 4th, when some starters returned, but Thibs left Obi in there...and was immediately rewarded with a 3 and another good play or two.

That ending lineup isn't about the whims of the coach. When RJ isn't playing well, Thibs is no longer indulging him. And that's something that Hart has made possible.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 27, 2023, 11:22:01 PM
Randle. Just 10 turnovers in the last 7 games.

I mean, damn.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 28, 2023, 12:44:48 AM
Quote from: elephant on February 27, 2023, 11:16:47 PM
I liked the moment in the 4th, when some starters returned, but Thibs left Obi in there...and was immediately rewarded with a 3 and another good play or two.

That ending lineup isn't about the whims of the coach. When RJ isn't playing well, Thibs is no longer indulging him. And that's something that Hart has made possible.

Yup. I think it is the best road to peak RJ and peak Grimes. On a night to night basis, what they do not earn Hart will pick up and it will not slow us down a bit.

We have one to one replacement at all three non wing positions.

One game at a time.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 28, 2023, 01:28:57 AM
Ball kids are fragile. I am glad we are not invested in any of them.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 28, 2023, 07:15:52 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 28, 2023, 01:28:57 AM
Ball kids are fragile. I am glad we are not invested in any of them.

LaMelo was 6.of 7 from three in 21 minutes when he went down

Damn Shame
Title: 9...9...9...Just FINE
Post by: chipstern on February 28, 2023, 07:41:00 AM
Player Development THIBS

Both our #25 picks stepping up.

Since Thibs stepped down to 9 deep, Quicks has blossomed with regular minutes. 

Since Hart's artival, Grimes' "stats" don't jump out the box score, but a lot of what he brings don't show up in a box score.

RJ up and down, but competing to team game

Josh Hart? 

Be Still My Heart

Our 4-Man Wing Rotation Is Stepping Up When It Counts
Title: free minutes over
Post by: lesterluv on February 28, 2023, 10:42:00 AM
RJ is up and down and down and down.

Competing to team game? When is the last time his first 10 possessions haven't been disasters? Sometimes he wakes up after, but not generally.

Somehow he managed to launch 14 shots despite being 6th on the team in minutes.

Somehow he was the only Knick to manage a plus-minus minus.

His minute allotment path is a simulacra of Elfrid Payton's descent, 40s 30s 20s..teens on the way and probably unplayable in the playoffs.

Thibs is like no way this MFer will close this game.

This can't happen. RJ has to fake it at least a little bit through seasons end so we can make up for the missed chance to OFFLOAD THE BOULDER.
Title: Re: Sigh Moan Bowling Bar
Post by: carlos123 on February 28, 2023, 12:38:24 PM
Quote from: Chipirin on February 27, 2023, 10:07:58 PM
Thibs?

Repentance?

Prostrate Yourself, Nueve9Grande.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AMWts8AnWZVZoScV1jOqKSeHXR25T8no35yysaC9zoJUL0ZdEM8OQZIK789OkpaJj80xVH4eOp8379bhUCdSYTtZLGIhR0FdXttahrn_m2kr0txBdmd24mcuahvnNVAnP77vywGeUXDqZp5XyA1pL5pLRSpW=w1278-h721-no?authuser=0)

Mr. Stern, I repented about two weeks ago by restoring Thibs head and discarding-neatly in a waste basket those of his potential replacements. That was when the Knicks began their ascent to the stratosphere.

Speaking of trajectories, you are descending to a level of condescension similar to the Late BoZ. Clearly, Hispanics are funny and speak funny in your Zizzlian view. Do we also look funny to you?

By the Late BoZ, I mean it only as far as the forum is concerned. He may very well be alive and running a re-education camp for Uncle Xi.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 28, 2023, 01:12:02 PM
Quote from: kidcarter8 on February 27, 2023, 10:58:13 PM

Grimes diminishing (5, 9 and 5 last three games in shorter minutes) Leon said, "hey, this kid will be good but I aint bettin he can do the job completely in this pivotal year"


Agree with Chip here. The minutes don't tell the story.

I think Grimes is coming along fine. Love his game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 28, 2023, 02:03:57 PM
Welcome Duane Washington Jr. , former Pacer and Sun, our new two-way player. He is a little guy with big hair, bouncy and can shoot a bit.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 28, 2023, 02:43:49 PM
http://youtu.be/D3YOyLOXfV8 (http://youtu.be/D3YOyLOXfV8)

Hairstyles can change. Kid has game.
Title: Dawg
Post by: chipstern on March 01, 2023, 02:37:04 AM
The Lord High Executioner
Title: Re: Sigh Moan Bowling Bar
Post by: chipstern on March 01, 2023, 06:24:25 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 28, 2023, 12:38:24 PM
Quote from: Chipirin on February 27, 2023, 10:07:58 PM
Thibs?

Repentance?

Prostrate Yourself, Nueve9Grande.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AMWts8AnWZVZoScV1jOqKSeHXR25T8no35yysaC9zoJUL0ZdEM8OQZIK789OkpaJj80xVH4eOp8379bhUCdSYTtZLGIhR0FdXttahrn_m2kr0txBdmd24mcuahvnNVAnP77vywGeUXDqZp5XyA1pL5pLRSpW=w1278-h721-no?authuser=0)

Mr. Stern, I repented about two weeks ago by restoring Thibs head and discarding-neatly in a waste basket those of his potential replacements. That was when the Knicks began their ascent to the stratosphere.

Speaking of trajectories, you are descending to a level of condescension similar to the Late BoZ. Clearly, Hispanics are funny and speak funny in your Zizzlian view. Do we also look funny to you?

By the Late BoZ, I mean it only as far as the forum is concerned. He may very well be alive and running a re-education camp for Uncle Xi.

El gusto es mio
Title: Stern
Post by: carlos123 on March 01, 2023, 10:33:51 AM
Bigoted and proud of it.

Amazing!
Title: Re: Stern
Post by: chipstern on March 01, 2023, 05:07:47 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on March 01, 2023, 10:33:51 AM
Bigoted and proud of it.

Amazing!

A load of crap. 

Playing the "bigot" card. 

I'll be sure to pass along your indictment to all of my Dominican neighbors. 

Oh WAIT...that only PROVES my bigotry. 

My bad. 

As you were. 
Title: Re: Stern
Post by: carlos123 on March 01, 2023, 06:42:36 PM
Quote from: chipstern on March 01, 2023, 05:07:47 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on March 01, 2023, 10:33:51 AM
Bigoted and proud of it.

Amazing!

A load of crap. 

Playing the "bigot" card. 

I'll be sure to pass along your indictment to all of my Dominican neighbors. 

Oh WAIT...that only PROVES my bigotry. 

My bad. 

As you were.

I aint playing no card.

You are.

The one that says -oh, but I have *.*friends.

Too bad you dont see it.
Title: What The Actual Fuck?
Post by: chipstern on March 01, 2023, 08:15:50 PM
Who ARE
These
KNICKS
Title: Dawgs
Post by: chipstern on March 01, 2023, 10:22:56 PM
🐾🐕🐾
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 01, 2023, 11:22:43 PM
I think we are starting to find our stride.

Nice to see Grimes show out.

It turns out Brunson was a pretty good signing for us.
Title: Superstars Vs Role Players
Post by: chipstern on March 02, 2023, 12:07:55 AM
Admittedly, a small sample size, apples and oranges and all that.

Dallas 3-5 with Irving.

Knicks 7-0 with Hart.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 02, 2023, 12:20:07 AM
Sandro Mamukelashvili just got waived by the Bucks. We should look into picking him up.
Title: Waiver Wire
Post by: chipstern on March 02, 2023, 11:38:14 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 02, 2023, 12:20:07 AM
Sandro Mamukelashvili just got waived by the Bucks. We should look into picking him up.

That seems unlikely.  Even as a G-League Conscript.

We are settling into another stage of development and cohesion in the post-Hart Epoch.

Anyone remember when we signed up former Spurs #19 pick, 6'10" Luka Samanic? 

In seven games for Westchester he put up impressive numbers: 27.9 ppg, 10.8 reb, 3.3 ass, .900 FT%

Had foot issues...plantar fascitas as I recall.  Couldn't get back on the court, and the Knicks waived him in lieu of Feron Hunt. 

Has been playing this year for the Maine Celtics: In 17 games, 20.6 ppg, 10.3 reb, 2.4 ass, .686 FT%

Anyway, I don't think the Knicks are trending towards any new projects at this point

Trevor Keels, 6'5" 220, 19 years old, out of Duke, our #42 pick out of last summer's draft.
Took three shots last night, and drained his first NBA trey.  Our G League 2-way. 
Title: Derick Rose
Post by: chipstern on March 02, 2023, 11:38:57 AM
Player-Coach?

Theo Pinson, 3.2? 
Title: Re: Derick Rose
Post by: elephant on March 02, 2023, 02:01:37 PM
Quote from: chipstern on March 02, 2023, 11:38:57 AM
Player-Coach?

Theo Pinson, 3.2?

Yeah, it really looks like we're moving in that direction.
Title: Wayne Shorter, RIP
Post by: chipstern on March 02, 2023, 07:06:22 PM
🦋💛🦋

(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/0c45d949cfce92f7f91525d698add20aaa2e1fad/188_332_3511_2107/master/3511.jpg?width=445&quality=85&dpr=1&s=none)
Title: Re: Superstars Vs Role Players
Post by: chipstern on March 03, 2023, 08:42:19 AM
Quote from: chipstern on March 02, 2023, 12:07:55 AM
Admittedly, a small sample size, apples and oranges and all that.

Dallas 3-5 with Irving.

Knicks 7-0 with Hart.

Well, last night Kyrie & Luca both broke 40 in a win against the Sixers.

Anyway, my Inner Facil has me wondering if one might dare hope Mavs bequeath us an 11,12,13,14 lottery pick.

Be still our collective heart

❤️ 💙 💜
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on March 03, 2023, 01:16:26 PM
Understatement Bru has to be a top ten MVP. Have not seen that two way guard play on the Knix since ?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on March 03, 2023, 04:05:21 PM
Yes Franky is still in the NBA winding down to 2.5 ppg. Seems like a century ago. The Frenchise. But boy he can play defense!
Title: MIAMI
Post by: chipstern on March 03, 2023, 09:14:17 PM
Who
ARE
These
GUYS?

👁🎹👁
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 03, 2023, 10:34:18 PM
That's our Julius!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: LarryB! on March 03, 2023, 10:49:07 PM
Hot Damn!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on March 03, 2023, 10:52:16 PM
Quote from: elephant on March 03, 2023, 10:34:18 PM
That's our Julius!

Alpha DAWG

With Butler draped all over him like a cheap suit

Playoff game

☯️🦋☯️
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 04, 2023, 02:15:14 AM
We gave Thibs enough flubs in the second half that he can get back to being his normal grumpy self. That might be nearly as valuable as the win.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on March 04, 2023, 07:22:38 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 02, 2023, 12:20:07 AM
Sandro Mamukelashvili just got waived by the Bucks. We should look into picking him up.

Spurs claimed him off waivers.
Title: Cam I Am
Post by: chipstern on March 04, 2023, 07:41:51 AM
Trail Blazers lost to Hawks by 18. 

Happy to say, Cam is in the starting rotation, played 33 minutes. 

25-3-2, 9-17, 4-9 from trey, second in scoring behind Lillard. 

Was a +/- -14, highest amongst the starters. 

Best of luck, kid. 

Our own Josh Hart also played 33 minutes, scored 5 points, with 7 boards, 3 assists, two steals and a block, and a +/- of +16. 

Hartenstein was a team leading +22. 

Brunson [35]
Hart [33]
RJ [29]
Grimes [25]
IQ [22] 

Interesting how Thibs is divving up the minutes, clearly situational. 

Celtics on their home floor on Sunday.  Those MFs are going to be in a feisty mood, after allowing the Nyets to come back from 28 down, and we'll have to deal with BOTH Tatum AND Brown, a signifiicant test, as Brown typically lights us up. 

BIG FUCKING TEST
Title: Cavs
Post by: chipstern on March 04, 2023, 08:30:58 AM
As of this morning, we are one game behind the Cavs for the #4 spot in the East. 

Title: Waiver Wire
Post by: chipstern on March 04, 2023, 09:15:31 AM
Guess who is now a Nyet?

Nerlens Noel.

Perhaps to spell Claxton for key minutes?

Or to keep Ben Simmons company on the trainer's table. 
Title: 2023 Playoffs?
Post by: chipstern on March 04, 2023, 10:25:59 AM


(https://scontent-lga3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/329030463_1612547999192281_2427196910323878042_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=t8qfbWhFqRgAX8L5Ze1&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-2.xx&oh=00_AfCwT57qdXo3KdbJp_jLS-1NVS74GXk-nJpOpxyzYzILfA&oe=6407CC58)

Title: 2017-2018 Lakers [The Pursuit Of Shiny Objects]
Post by: chipstern on March 04, 2023, 11:16:26 AM
It is SOBRING to look through the rear view mirror, at all that young talent whom the Lakers had and offloaded, in addition to the draft capital they squadered, for those who advocate going ALL IN FOR SHINY OBJECTS.

True, they got one championship out of it...absolutely, but looking at the current mishmosh and reflecting upon the 2017-2018 Lakers roster...

Lonzo Ball
Brandon Ingram
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
Kyle Kuzma
Jordan Clarkson
Alex Caruso
Ivica Zubak
Gary Payton II
Larry Nance Jr. 
Josh Hart
Julius Randle

Sobering, is it not? 

Something to be said for nurturing your puppies and being patient. 

Again, God bless Donovan Mitchell. 

And with apologies to The Lord High Executioner, our esteemed Dawg In Residence...

RJ
Grimes
IQ
Obi

Were all assets on the table in purstit of Mitchell.  Let alone draft picks, such as the one [well, two] we squadered on Josh Hart...

And guess what Dawg, your coaching suggestion, that RJ be utilized more as a sixth man, that the surfeit of minutes he was given be spread more evenly around?

Well, Thibs has heard the cry of his children in the wilderness, and everyone, particularly RJ, are buying in, and we are making a playoff run with his Plan 9 From Outer Space Rotation, and everyone is all in, even Fournier and Rose, nailed to the pine, Sims and McBride [in case of fire, break glass], because we are winning. 

LEON ROSE WAS TASKED WITH GETTING US AN ALPHA MALE. 

Well, Randle and Brunson are sure looking pretty Alpha, while the likes of IQ are peaking out in their third year, even as Robinson in his fifth season is impacting winning, and our sixth man Hart is firing our collective ascent and team chemistry much as Sixth Man Sprewell once did, and the likes of RJ, Obi, Grimes, Hartenstein are maturing as role players. 

Again, Sunday a BIG TEST. 

But 8-0 since Hart arrived, and JR & JB looking suspiciously like the Superstars Leon was tasked with getting. 

Funny how sometimes you can't always get what you want, but if you try real hard, you get what you need. 

LEAST WAYS, FUN TO ROOT FOR A WINNING TEAM, AIN'T IT, KNICKS FANS?   
Title: Re: 2017-2018 Lakers [The Pursuit Of Shiny Objects]
Post by: elephant on March 04, 2023, 12:58:14 PM
Quote from: chipstern on March 04, 2023, 11:16:26 AM

Funny how sometimes you can't always get what you want, but if you try real hard, you get what you need. 

LEAST WAYS, FUN TO ROOT FOR A WINNING TEAM, AIN'T IT, KNICKS FANS?

YES!

Such a new fucking experience.

Such a weird pleasure.

(I think I can get used to this)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 05, 2023, 01:35:31 AM
It is very fun.

I am also keeping one eye on Kris Murray and the Ignite not Scoot kids, Miller and the French one.
Title: Ja Morant
Post by: chipstern on March 05, 2023, 06:17:39 AM
WTF?
Title: Our Draft Pick
Post by: chipstern on March 05, 2023, 03:40:03 PM
Go Phoenix

🎭🦋🎭
Title: Questionable
Post by: chipstern on March 05, 2023, 06:52:25 PM
We may be without Brunson for tonight.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 05, 2023, 09:28:04 PM
Every game...

every game...Quickley makes plays that are just brilliant.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on March 05, 2023, 09:31:19 PM
Quote from: elephant on March 05, 2023, 09:28:04 PM
Every game...

every game...Quickley makes plays that are just brilliant.

And Julius closes out the third with a miracle three.

Up by one after being down by 14.

No quit.
Title: A BOLDER Boulder
Post by: chipstern on March 05, 2023, 09:44:55 PM
RJ channeling his infernal LesterDawg.

Cough

🌮🍷🌮
Title: What A Barn Burner
Post by: chipstern on March 05, 2023, 10:08:20 PM
Great Duke Out.

Up 1

17 seconds
Title: Double OT
Post by: chipstern on March 05, 2023, 10:28:42 PM
⚠️🎱⚠️
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 05, 2023, 10:44:09 PM
Holy fuck.

What a statement.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on March 05, 2023, 10:46:17 PM
Quote from: elephant on March 05, 2023, 10:44:09 PM
Holy fuck.

What a statement.

Game Of The Year?

GAME OF THE DECADE.

That was a statement game.

DAMN
DAMN
DAMN

🎭🍷🎭
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 05, 2023, 10:52:11 PM
That was about as ugly as we could have played it and still won. Somehow we managed to switch the Jules spin into doubles play off just in the nick of time.

Escaping Boston was 80 percent perspiration and 20 percent blind luck.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 05, 2023, 11:11:05 PM
I didn't see much luck in this one. (maybe Horford's final miss?)

This was 100% EFFORT.

You don't get pushed much more than this.

Each time they pushed right back. Quintessential Knick energy.
Title: Disappointed
Post by: carlos123 on March 05, 2023, 11:58:41 PM
(https://cflvdg.avoz.es/sc/a-uon1pwLRvFxQYylMxYbjfQ_1k=/768x/2023/03/05/00121678026782742420733/Foto/efe_20230304_233516676.jpg)

Putins bitch was rooting for the Knicks to lose during his latest speech.

Well, dont know it for a fact. Just had to share the pic.

Hey Chamaco, u like it?
Title: EFFORT
Post by: carlos123 on March 06, 2023, 12:11:49 AM
Quote from: elephant on March 05, 2023, 11:11:05 PM
I didn't see much luck in this one. (maybe Horford's final miss?)

This was 100% EFFORT.

You don't get pushed much more than this.

Each time they pushed right back. Quintessential Knick energy.

That, and it is clear we have some pretty good players too.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 06, 2023, 12:51:50 AM
That was our last divisional game of the season. We finished 8-8.

I was expecting max effort from all sides.

The keys were poise and awareness which were on and off again this game. Quickley gets props for having that extra tank. He is getting himself seriously paid. I hope he really wants to be here.

This was one of those games that will give Thibs plenty of tape.

Get well Jalen Brunson.
Title: Strange Nightmare
Post by: chipstern on March 06, 2023, 06:48:45 AM
I was just picturing Imnanuel Quickley in a Utah Jazz inform


Be careful what you wish for, Knicks fans.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 06, 2023, 12:34:56 PM
wow...this has been quite a ride )
Title: Steak and bone
Post by: carlos123 on March 06, 2023, 03:47:26 PM
Quote from: Les 🐶 on March 06, 2023, 12:34:56 PM
wow...this has been quite a ride )

It looks like your bone is turning into a juicy steak.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 06, 2023, 05:03:53 PM
We've definitely advanced to hamburger, like a really really good one, like with beef from https://www.staubitz.com (https://www.staubitz.com).
Title: Re: Strange Nightmare
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 06, 2023, 08:59:01 PM
Quote from: chipstern on March 06, 2023, 06:48:45 AM
I was just picturing Imnanuel Quickley in a Utah Jazz inform


Be careful what you wish for, Knicks fans.

Who are they offering?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 06, 2023, 09:00:34 PM
Knicks will be a "run it back" team next year.  Quickley will be a target. We wont move him.  Only way Barrett goes is as trade filler.  Barrett and picks for someone better than Barrett?  eh.
Title: Re: Strange Nightmare
Post by: carlos123 on March 07, 2023, 04:36:51 PM
Quote from: chamacocartero8 on March 06, 2023, 08:59:01 PM

Q-Who are they offering?

A-
(https://cflvdg.avoz.es/sc/a-uon1pwLRvFxQYylMxYbjfQ_1k=/768x/2023/03/05/00121678026782742420733/Foto/efe_20230304_233516676.jpg)
Title: Maybe
Post by: carlos123 on March 07, 2023, 11:32:44 PM
Maybe it would have helped a longer rotation just for this game. Our guys seemed out of gas in the fourth Q.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on March 09, 2023, 11:59:37 AM
The reason even teams playing very well don't win them all.  Variables such as shooting, contentedness and fatigue (of mind and body), plus adrenaline of opponent.  ONWARD.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 10, 2023, 07:14:37 PM
Just here to say that I love Josh Hart.

And I'm not ashamed of that love!

Now to avoid bruising some tender souls, I will say not a word about a player who I think is not right for this team (and who we should never ever play in the last five minutes of a game unless we like losing).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 10, 2023, 11:29:01 PM
Time to develop that depth in the guard rotation.

IQ, Grimes, Deuce and Hart time to step up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: LarryB! on March 11, 2023, 05:01:09 PM
https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/ny-cam-reddish-trail-blazers-trade-20230311-hnc6dhhlurc7dmdygsfzzc75ma-story.html
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 11, 2023, 06:29:11 PM
We helped the Clips stay ahead of Dallas.

No point in losing to the Lakers in the same way. They are too far back.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 11, 2023, 06:56:17 PM
I think we handle the Lakers tomorrow.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 11, 2023, 06:57:07 PM
Clippers are funny. I've seen a bunch of their games lately. Formidable, but they bore the hell out of me.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 12, 2023, 04:23:26 PM
Quote from: elephant on March 10, 2023, 07:14:37 PM
Just here to say that I love Josh Hart.

And I'm not ashamed of that love!

Now to avoid bruising some tender souls, I will say not a word about a player who I think is not right for this team (and who we should never ever play in the last five minutes of a game unless we like losing).

I like Hart for this team.  But he is limited
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 12, 2023, 04:24:30 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 11, 2023, 06:29:11 PM
We helped the Clips stay ahead of Dallas.

No point in losing to the Lakers in the same way. They are too far back.

WTF are you talkin about?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 12, 2023, 07:13:36 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 12, 2023, 04:23:26 PM
Quote from: elephant on March 10, 2023, 07:14:37 PM
Just here to say that I love Josh Hart.

And I'm not ashamed of that love!

Now to avoid bruising some tender souls, I will say not a word about a player who I think is not right for this team (and who we should never ever play in the last five minutes of a game unless we like losing).

I like Hart for this team.  But he is limited

Wait, what?

This may vie for your craziest take ever.

Are you asserting he's NOT A SUPERSTAR who can singlehandedly take over an offense and dominate games?

Then, aight, no disagreement here. That's not what he does.

But otherwise? The dude does everything. He's a winner. He's relentless. He's smart. He's tenacious on defense. He's an incredibly valuable asset...and he's the kind of player that helps take a team deep into the playoffs.

You characterize that kind of athlete as "limited?"
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 12, 2023, 09:12:43 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 12, 2023, 04:24:30 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 11, 2023, 06:29:11 PM
We helped the Clips stay ahead of Dallas.

No point in losing to the Lakers in the same way. They are too far back.

WTF are you talkin about?

On second look, i will not feel bad if we drop this one as well.

That said, go Knicks!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 12, 2023, 09:15:02 PM
Quote from: elephant on March 12, 2023, 07:13:36 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 12, 2023, 04:23:26 PM
Quote from: elephant on March 10, 2023, 07:14:37 PM
Just here to say that I love Josh Hart.

And I'm not ashamed of that love!

Now to avoid bruising some tender souls, I will say not a word about a player who I think is not right for this team (and who we should never ever play in the last five minutes of a game unless we like losing).

I like Hart for this team.  But he is limited

Wait, what?

This may vie for your craziest take ever.

Are you asserting he's NOT A SUPERSTAR who can singlehandedly take over an offense and dominate games?

Then, aight, no disagreement here. That's not what he does.

But otherwise? The dude does everything. He's a winner. He's relentless. He's smart. He's tenacious on defense. He's an incredibly valuable asset...and he's the kind of player that helps take a team deep into the playoffs.

You characterize that kind of athlete as "limited?"

Kid thought the Bargnani deal was the move to take us over the top.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 12, 2023, 11:46:43 PM
Nice win.

I thought we were gonna dive into demented antihero ball for a minute there, but somehow we turned ourselves back into a competent basketball team in time to get the win.

Nice second half from RJ. We needed every bucket.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: LarryB! on March 13, 2023, 01:13:18 AM
Quote from: elephant on March 12, 2023, 07:13:36 PM
Quote from: kiidcarter8 on March 12, 2023, 04:23:26 PM
Quote from: elephant on March 10, 2023, 07:14:37 PM
Just here to say that I love Josh Hart.

And I'm not ashamed of that love!

Now to avoid bruising some tender souls, I will say not a word about a player who I think is not right for this team (and who we should never ever play in the last five minutes of a game unless we like losing).

I like Hart for this team.  But he is limited

Wait, what?

This may vie for your craziest take ever.

Are you asserting he's NOT A SUPERSTAR who can singlehandedly take over an offense and dominate games?

Then, aight, no disagreement here. That's not what he does.

But otherwise? The dude does everything. He's a winner. He's relentless. He's smart. He's tenacious on defense. He's an incredibly valuable asset...and he's the kind of player that helps take a team deep into the playoffs.

You characterize that kind of athlete as "limited?"

Well. He is no Howard Eisley
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 13, 2023, 01:14:22 AM
Dang. Good memory.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on March 13, 2023, 04:41:59 PM
Knicks should hope Brunson gets well for play-offs. Without him they can barely compete.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 14, 2023, 10:42:20 AM
the very thought of Howard Eisley makes me shiver...
Title: Great players
Post by: carlos123 on March 14, 2023, 05:27:30 PM
Quote from: Les🐶 on March 14, 2023, 10:42:20 AM
the very thought of Howard Eisley makes me shiver...

And how about Andrea Bargnani? He was another favorite of our Chamaco.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 14, 2023, 07:53:03 PM
Watch out for the announcers tonight. Simons and Thybulle have similar haircuts and single digit numbers. The plays of one may occasionally be attributed to the other.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 14, 2023, 11:20:16 PM
Randall looking pretty toasted and ready to get home.

RJ with his trademark sub 50 IQ play.

Our defenders keeping us in this game.

Deuce looked great running the show.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 15, 2023, 12:22:46 AM
Quote from: luee on March 13, 2023, 04:41:59 PM
Knicks should hope Brunson gets well for play-offs. Without him they can barely compete.

Um.

Look pretty competitive to me.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 15, 2023, 01:18:42 AM
That was extremely satisfying.

We were saying all season that depth was going to be a strength of this team. It looks like it finally is.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 15, 2023, 03:22:20 PM
So satisfying. The Hart2 + Deuce minutes a delight.

Keep in mind Portland loses to everybody. A true disgrace what Lillard is surrounded by.
Maybe this summer he finally says uncle and asks out.

I hope so.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 15, 2023, 05:44:10 PM
Mitch is upset about his touches. He should get himself double figures just beating Jokic up the floor. Something to watch for.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 15, 2023, 11:59:36 PM
If Mitch has an issue, and he thinks putting it out on social media will help, the dude has some growing up to do.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 16, 2023, 08:11:11 PM
The bricks we lay are soup for Mitch. He has to get those and put them back. Teams may be overplaying him more opening driving lanes, especially when the driver is not Brunson.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on March 17, 2023, 09:39:31 AM
can't believe that Franky is still in the league. Great coaching on reserve guards.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 18, 2023, 04:29:41 PM
Last play of the game was an oop to Mitch.

We do not win matinee games. We never win matinee games.

What the hell is going on with this team?

Who are these guys?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: LarryB! on March 18, 2023, 05:13:10 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 18, 2023, 04:29:41 PM
Last play of the game was an oop to Mitch.

We do not win matinee games. We never win matinee games.

What the hell is going on with this team?

Who are these guys?
Title: Q&A
Post by: carlos123 on March 18, 2023, 05:22:12 PM
Quote from: Fac on March 18, 2023, 04:29:41 PM
Q-
Who are these guys?

A-Jalens friends.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 18, 2023, 05:33:08 PM
Another one for ya,

Is Doc gonna give Rusty this much rope in the playoffs?
Title: More questions
Post by: carlos123 on March 18, 2023, 06:40:15 PM
Quote from: Fac on March 18, 2023, 05:33:08 PM
Another one for ya,

Is Doc gonna give Rusty this much rope in the playoffs?

A-dont know, but Jalens friends are also very good friends of Josh.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 20, 2023, 10:37:56 PM
Youch. That was a weird one.

At least the Mavs lost.

It may be the last we see of smiley Thibs for a while.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 21, 2023, 01:16:07 PM
Not unexpected trap game.
Indicative, however, of troubles we will likely face in the playoffs courtesy of Thibs' rigid attitude toward rotations.
When you give up 80 points in the first half, you damn well better unleash the deuce at some point in the second. (who was absolutely magnificent at both ends in his last appearance)
Title: R.I.P. The Captain...
Post by: lesterluv on March 21, 2023, 03:32:16 PM
https://nypost.com/2023/03/21/willis-reed-legendary-knicks-hall-of-famer-dead-at-80/ (https://nypost.com/2023/03/21/willis-reed-legendary-knicks-hall-of-famer-dead-at-80/)
Title: Re: R.I.P. The Captain...
Post by: LarryB! on March 21, 2023, 04:50:47 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on March 21, 2023, 03:32:16 PM
https://nypost.com/2023/03/21/willis-reed-legendary-knicks-hall-of-famer-dead-at-80/ (https://nypost.com/2023/03/21/willis-reed-legendary-knicks-hall-of-famer-dead-at-80/)

Oh, man
Title: Rigid rotations
Post by: carlos123 on March 21, 2023, 05:48:12 PM
Quote from: Les🐶 on March 21, 2023, 01:16:07 PM
Not unexpected trap game.
Indicative, however, of troubles we will likely face in the playoffs courtesy of Thibs' rigid attitude toward rotations.
When you give up 80 points in the first half, you damn well better unleash the deuce at some point in the second. (who was absolutely magnificent at both ends in his last appearance)

Amen to that.
Title: Re: R.I.P. The Captain...
Post by: facilitatorn on March 21, 2023, 08:59:21 PM
Quote from: LarryB! on March 21, 2023, 04:50:47 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on March 21, 2023, 03:32:16 PM
https://nypost.com/2023/03/21/willis-reed-legendary-knicks-hall-of-famer-dead-at-80/ (https://nypost.com/2023/03/21/willis-reed-legendary-knicks-hall-of-famer-dead-at-80/)

Oh, man

Sail on, Captain.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 21, 2023, 11:05:02 PM
What the hell. Willis Reed dies.

Where is Chip?
Title: Where?
Post by: carlos123 on March 22, 2023, 01:05:55 AM
Quote from: elephant on March 21, 2023, 11:05:02 PM
What the hell. Willis Reed dies.

Where is Chip?

Writing an obituary?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 22, 2023, 10:31:46 PM
Jimmy Butler seems to be rounding into playoff shape at the right time.

Can we fix our issues by the time we see them at the garden in a week?

Dallas losing as well takes some of the sting out of it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 23, 2023, 01:31:37 PM
Butler was in season-long load management and is gradually entering beast mode as per schedule.

Last game, Spoelstra almost brought the Heat back by having him check Brunson in the 2cnd half, but switching onto Julius on handoffs or picks thereby singlehandedly nullifying both our stars on every possession.

This game, he went with straighter Butler on JB and Bam on Randle when it mattered.

When Butler levels up, they are one tough team, for us, and for whoever they face in the playoffs.
Title: Please pick up the white courtesy telephone
Post by: elephant on March 23, 2023, 03:50:09 PM
Yes to not facing Miami in the playoffs. Always a fucking handful.

Now about our Poet Laureate.

Chip, you out there?
Title: Re: Please pick up the white courtesy telephone
Post by: chipstern on March 23, 2023, 10:08:10 PM
Quote from: elephant on March 23, 2023, 03:50:09 PM
Yes to not facing Miami in the playoffs. Always a fucking handful.

Now about our Poet Laureate.

Chip, you out there?

⛩️🎭⛩️
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on March 24, 2023, 11:29:53 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 22, 2023, 10:31:46 PM
Jimmy Butler seems to be rounding into playoff shape at the right time.



He has been great all year
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 24, 2023, 12:35:37 PM
indeed, might be my absolute favorite non-Knick, but definitely has another gear he can switch into when it counts.

Those Knicks.
A little more BAD Julius seeping out through the cracks with each passing game.
Mitch complaining about shots daily.
JB beaten up from taking all those charges.
Quickley ball hogging like Alonzo Trier is his mentor and idol.

A little creative tension is never a bad thing, but Thibs might be wise to give those fellows rotting on the bench some more play and get everybody fresh n happy n restored before playoff time.


** or it could be a very quick out, which would be a shame, after a season with some marvelous moments
Title: fresh n happy
Post by: carlos123 on March 24, 2023, 01:48:12 PM
Quote from: Les🐶 on March 24, 2023, 12:35:37 PM

A little creative tension is never a bad thing, but Thibs might be wise to give those fellows rotting on the bench some more play and get everybody fresh n happy n restored before playoff time.

** or it could be a very quick out, which would be a shame, after a season with some marvelous moments

You know Thibs aint doin dat.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 24, 2023, 05:09:50 PM
Grimes is finding a small groove in the chaos. Keeping him on a reasonable portion of attempts makes sense.

Julius needs Jalen on the court to lead him through the mental aspects of tough competition. He has only evolved so far in the past few months and everyone who keeps books knows that Julius Head is the first thing you target when trying to take down the Knicks.

RJ is up, down and all over the place.

The end of the season is hard for striving teams.

Rockets is now must win with a pivotal matchup with Miami looming.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 24, 2023, 06:26:52 PM
Admittedly, Jules does not break under pressure so spectacularly or completely as a Ben Simmons or donald trump for example.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 24, 2023, 10:59:11 PM
Frank nearly saved the Mavs but fortunately fell short. Good job Charlotte!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 25, 2023, 01:48:13 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 24, 2023, 05:09:50 PM
Grimes is finding a small groove in the chaos. Keeping him on a reasonable portion of attempts makes sense.

Julius needs Jalen on the court to lead him through the mental aspects of tough competition. He has only evolved so far in the past few months and everyone who keeps books knows that Julius Head is the first thing you target when trying to take down the Knicks.

RJ is up, down and all over the place.

The end of the season is hard for striving teams.

Rockets is now must win with a pivotal matchup with Miami looming.

Yeah. Julius needs Jalen. The man is definitely vulnerable.

And yeah. RJ is up and down and all over the place. Same as it ever was.

Grimes always get my attention. He finds grooves. His ego is sufficiently in check that he can play the good soldier, taking on whatever role is necessary to help the team. But in my dreamy mind, he also seems poised to make a jump to another level.

If I were the Knicks, I would hold on to that man. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: LarryB! on March 25, 2023, 04:29:39 PM
Being manhandled is fucking with Julius Randle.

Next time a situation arises with a no call or bad call THIBS should jump in and get the T.

It might not mean shit but at the very least Randle could get the hint the boss has his back and he should stop being his own Perry Mason.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 25, 2023, 05:59:21 PM
They are going to keep doing it until it stops working.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 26, 2023, 03:42:45 PM
I am now starting to worry about the Mavs slide. They dropped two straight to Charlotte. They could be entering the hunt for eighth or ninth worst record denying us a sweet pick opportunity.
Title: Mavs slide
Post by: carlos123 on March 27, 2023, 12:44:42 AM
The Kyrie effect?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 27, 2023, 03:06:05 AM
They are already within the protection, picking tenth if the season ends today. Fuck
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 27, 2023, 11:59:45 PM
We hit my number with 6 games left to play. I am impressed.

We need to get Mitch looks just because he likes to score the ball and he does so much for us.

Other than that, I liked the shot distribution, the copious assists up and down the lineup, and the second half D. Lets see how much of that we can carry over on Wednesday.

Go Knicks!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on March 28, 2023, 12:56:14 PM
Nothing wrong with the offense, Brunson just needs to round into defensive shape.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 28, 2023, 05:00:12 PM
A strange take from an odd duck.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 29, 2023, 10:28:51 PM
Lordy, what a fourth quarter!

Randle can take a couple of games off and we can ease in Brunson as we finish our business.

Who thought we would be here starting out?
Title: Who?
Post by: carlos123 on March 29, 2023, 10:48:00 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 29, 2023, 10:28:51 PM

Who thought we would be here starting out?

Not Chamaco.

But he will claim he did.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 30, 2023, 06:49:43 PM
Jules on ice for the duration of the regular season at least. Exam in two weeks to check progress.

I think we should do the same with Brunson unless both the Nets and Heat suddenly catch up.

It gives the two and three tier guys a chance to stretch in ways that could prove useful in a series in addition to getting our work horses some pasture time before the big charge up the mountain.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 31, 2023, 01:02:28 AM
We're really seeing Grimes and IQ step up.

It's gonna be interesting to see how this unfolds.
Title: Fac and elephant,
Post by: carlos123 on March 31, 2023, 01:17:06 AM
True and true.

But what we really need is for the f-in Nyets to lose a couple of games. They are too close for comfort, and I dont think we are going to win much until the postseason.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 31, 2023, 05:57:11 PM
Nyets have Wolves, Pistons, Magic and Sixers left.

Wolves lost Naz to a broken risk but are tough and have a lot to play for. Two kids teams which can be dangerous this time of year then whoever Philly is not resting.

I have them somewhere between 4-0 and 2-2. 

I would give them about the same chance of pulling a round one upset as we have.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 31, 2023, 11:13:49 PM
Brunson gets 48 and I'm still blown away by Hart + Hart.

Tough fucking team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 01, 2023, 12:37:29 AM
Nyets won as well.

I still enjoy watching the Hawks lose and will as long as they have TY.

We had seven guys in double figures which makes sense since they were down two of their better defenders. Still I think we might be some kind of low key offensive juggernaut.

I believe our magic number is one after tonights action.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 02, 2023, 02:40:36 PM
Trap game this afternoon for the Knicks.

Pulling for Memphis, Brooklyn and Dallas to all get wins.
Title: Say whaaat?
Post by: carlos123 on April 02, 2023, 04:27:46 PM
Quote from: Fac on April 02, 2023, 02:40:36 PM
Trap game this afternoon for the Knicks.

Pulling for     Brooklyn.

Fuk them Nyets. We need them to lose, then we can even rest some players, though I doubt Thibs would ever do that.
Title: Re: Say whaaat?
Post by: facilitatorn on April 02, 2023, 09:18:24 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on April 02, 2023, 04:27:46 PM
Quote from: Fac on April 02, 2023, 02:40:36 PM
Trap game this afternoon for the Knicks.

Pulling for     Brooklyn.

Fuk them Nyets. We need them to lose, then we can even rest some players, though I doubt Thibs would ever do that.

We are fine. The Nyets are not catching us. The question is does the Dallas pick convey? With Kyrie going tank-a-matic to put the Mavs in the loss column against Atlanta, they are squarely 10th off the bottom in the last protected spot. We would need a team behind them to move up and push them back for the pick to convey. If they pass just one team in the last three games we get it automatically. I want that damn late lotto pick.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 03, 2023, 05:48:13 PM
There is a playoff series in our future. One win or a Nyets loss and it is with Cleveland and not Philly.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 05, 2023, 01:15:37 AM
The Hawks are a dangerous team when they sit Young. Is he shippable? Obviously not to us, but what could they even get back?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 05, 2023, 02:49:43 PM
Another trap game. At least this one is meaningless in terms of the postseason.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 05, 2023, 10:55:39 PM
Good results for us and the Mavs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on April 06, 2023, 09:07:42 AM
Loved, loved, loved first quarter Robinson. Take it to the rack Mitch!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on April 06, 2023, 11:06:02 AM
Mitch was a beast!

Fabulous to see IQ and Grimes sizzle. Like I've been saying....Grimes can do it all. The pass to Obi for the dunk was a piece of art.

And Obi! The playing time just what the doctor ordered.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on April 07, 2023, 08:42:16 PM
I was impressed when the Mavs won last game.

But now shutting it down with two to go...and a viable chance to make the playoffs?

Not a good look for them and the NBA.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 09, 2023, 04:11:39 PM
If we had played Jefferies over Fournier, I think we would have won those last two games. We probably would have split them if we had played Keels.

On well.

Go Lakers.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 09, 2023, 05:19:34 PM
Fortunately Obi is proving everything we thought we could ever get from Evan and more.

Over the last 5

20 pts 3 rbs 3 ast 1 stl 1 to 2 pf on better than 50-40-90 splits in 30 minutes for plus 7 average.

There is a lot of room to fall off of that and still be playoff rotation productive even with clearly attackable defense.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 09, 2023, 06:45:05 PM
Lakers did their work.

Mavs in 10th. One team needs to pass them. Just less than 20 percent odds.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 09, 2023, 08:09:52 PM
Pop rocks.
Title: Mavs
Post by: carlos123 on April 09, 2023, 09:56:00 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 09, 2023, 06:45:05 PM
Lakers did their work.

Mavs in 10th. One team needs to pass them. Just less than 20 percent odds.

They are 11th, so what happens now?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 10, 2023, 01:28:34 AM
They are 10th. We need one of OKC, Toronto, NO, or Chicago to move up with no lucky ticket falling to Dallas for the pick to convey.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 10, 2023, 04:30:33 PM
http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2023/4/10/23676825/the-knicks-signed-postseason-ineligible-isaiah-roby-whats-the-deal (http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2023/4/10/23676825/the-knicks-signed-postseason-ineligible-isaiah-roby-whats-the-deal)

Good move. I like Roby.
Title: Hey Fac.
Post by: carlos123 on April 12, 2023, 12:55:57 AM
You ban books, you ban drag,   Now you are going to ban Bud Light.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 12, 2023, 02:15:52 AM
I have never understood why bud light exists in the first place, but there are bigger fish to fry.
Title: Just another Chamaco
Post by: carlos123 on April 12, 2023, 10:29:05 AM
Quote from: Fac on April 12, 2023, 02:15:52 AM
I have never understood why bud light exists in the first place, but there are bigger fish to fry.

Just another culture war.

Ask Kid Rock, or should we say Chamaco Rock?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 12, 2023, 12:56:25 PM
Just got the skinny on that. It could get ugly. American panty-fascists are not emotionally strong enough to handle real beer. At least they still have Coors and Miller available.

Ru Paul needs to do some AR-15 adds with Elliot Page.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 15, 2023, 03:23:34 PM
I hope we hold Randle out till game two. I expect he will give it a go, but I have a bad feeling about it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on April 15, 2023, 08:48:42 PM
Brunson and Hart!!

The Villanova guys got us a win.

BTW, was I the only one screaming for Barrett to be taken out at the end (I started at the 7 minute mark, and smoke was coming out my ears at 3)?

My man Grimes with the no-big-whoop foul shots to seal the deal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 15, 2023, 08:49:47 PM
That went better than I had hoped.

Grimes could have come in for RJ a little earlier. I think RJ will find a groove eventually.

Nice game one. Lets rejuvenate and do even better on Tuesday.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on April 15, 2023, 09:40:08 PM
Yeah, I probably could have skipped the RJ comment.

But I've been making the same point all year. He shouldn't be in there in the latter stages of a game; his control of the ball is sketchy and he's never shown much of a clutch gene. He and Julius on the floor near the end of a game has been...and will always be...a problem. Both Grimes and IQ give you better ball handling, better foul shooting, better 3-point shooting...they just create more problems for the other guys.

BTW, looks to me we're better than the Cavs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on April 17, 2023, 08:35:07 AM
JR looked a bit rusty could be a sweep when he gets into full game shape. Big guys cant rebound and cavs have a very short bench. Maybe its just Knicks but these guys do not look elite. Almost 20 a game from your third scoring option, not too shabby.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 17, 2023, 03:01:36 PM
Hart probably out for game two. Gonna need Deuce to do Hart things and for Grimes, IQ and RJ to step up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 18, 2023, 01:09:00 AM
Sacramento and GS is getting a little chippy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on April 18, 2023, 08:14:52 AM
Just a great series.  De'Aaron Fox is the player that Brandon Jennings was supposed to be.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 18, 2023, 03:13:33 PM
Hart is listed as questionable. I am concerned.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on April 18, 2023, 06:25:16 PM
I think we can without him on this one. We match up well with Cleveland. We were tight last game and still won.

To say nothing of.....





COSMIC DESTINY
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 18, 2023, 10:18:17 PM
Ouch.

We have to game plan better for cosmic destiny or we will soon lose control of this series.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on April 19, 2023, 12:34:09 AM
Listen. This one was on me.

My apologies. I had to work and missed the game.

And this...this is what happens.

I'll be ready Friday night.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 19, 2023, 01:38:14 AM
This one was more comic density, but hopefully we can make some adjustments, feed off the home crowd and get a win. We need a third and fourth banana to step up or we will be knocked out.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on April 19, 2023, 11:13:43 AM
Have to exorcise the demons of that Atlanta Hawks defeat, when the team showed so much promise going in and then...collapsed.

And Julius is still Julius.
And RJ is still RJ.

But there's that Brunson guy. And I'm betting he's an AGENT OF CHANGE.

Let's see if IQ and Grimes can rise up to push the Knicks through this round.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on April 20, 2023, 10:44:49 AM
Quote from: elephant on April 19, 2023, 12:34:09 AM
Listen. This one was on me.

My apologies. I had to work and missed the game.


Let's not do this again....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 21, 2023, 09:10:17 PM
Starting to look like the Hawks series. Three quarters of this one to go.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 22, 2023, 12:01:27 AM
That is what I call a timely post. Thank goodness they read this forum on the bench.

2 more like that would be prime.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on April 22, 2023, 12:11:49 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on April 20, 2023, 10:44:49 AM
Quote from: elephant on April 19, 2023, 12:34:09 AM
Listen. This one was on me.

My apologies. I had to work and missed the game.


Let's not do this again....

I did my job tonight.

Yelling from the opening tip. Series of other subtle ritualistic mojos.

All is well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 22, 2023, 02:18:57 PM
All is well or that was an awesome fluke.

They will play better next game. We will have to play better still.

If we can activate Grimes and keep the other kids engaged, we should be in good shape
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 23, 2023, 04:26:24 AM
Listened to a millennial YouTuber talking about how much fun he is having with all the terrible shooting in the playoffs this year. He had never seen a season since he started watching in 2009 where for the most part teams are going hard enough to make basketball look difficult for these guys on both sides in most every game. 

Ah, to be young. Though honestly once was enough for me.

The gritty and insanely dangerous brand of basketball being played is still my cup of tea.

If the playoffs keep going like this, whoever wins, this chip will be worth more than the last five or six put together.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on April 23, 2023, 12:13:03 PM
Yeah, man, it ain't ballet but the intensity has been fabulous.

Keep it coming.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 23, 2023, 01:08:54 PM
I hate early starts. If we sleepwalk, this thing could wind up tied which would really put the Cavs ahead.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 23, 2023, 03:53:52 PM
That was awesome.

They took away Randle. We took away Mitchell and came out ahead.

RJ might be figuring some things out that makes everyone feel much better about his extension.

I love our depth and togetherness.

We beat the Cavs and the refs today.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on April 23, 2023, 06:54:23 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 23, 2023, 03:53:52 PM
That was awesome.

They took away Randle. We took away Mitchell and came out ahead.

RJ might be figuring some things out that makes everyone feel much better about his extension.

I love our depth and togetherness.

We beat the Cavs and the refs today.

🏀🌹🏀
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 23, 2023, 07:45:17 PM
Chip!

Missed you!

Hope things are well on your end
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 24, 2023, 01:05:09 AM
Locked on Cavs is pretty awesome today over on YouTube.

Great series. Quiet forum
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on April 24, 2023, 08:55:02 AM
Sign on TV said 3-1 lead had 95% wins. Finally sane drafting has led to a deep bench.
Title: Guess What?
Post by: chipstern on April 24, 2023, 11:40:34 AM
Number of first round picks the Cavs traded for Donovan Mitchell

3

Number of first round pick swaps the Cavs traded for Mitchell

2

Number of All Stars the Cavs traded for Donovan Mitchell

1

Number of made FGs in the second half in Game 4 by Donovan Mitchell

1
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 24, 2023, 11:50:29 AM
Expect more makes from DM in game five.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on April 24, 2023, 12:17:28 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 24, 2023, 11:50:29 AM
Expect more makes from DM in game five.

Without a doubt

Gigantic talent

Cost to Knicks would've gutted our youth,  rotational depth and the draft assets to replenish it. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 24, 2023, 12:53:48 PM
I am assuming Grimes stays out for game 5. RJ, Hart, and Deuce can pick up slack there with no worries. I would also sit Julius so he gets a bit more time to get right, 5 days if we need him in game six, more if we win and wait for the next round.

That would mean Mitch Obi RJ Hart Brunson start with Hartenstein McBride and Quickley as the main subs with the possibility of seeing DeQuan Jefferies as the only other strong body to pull off the bench as a sub forward. I think that is a better choice than trying to play Fournier as a later day Steve Novak though that seems more like the direction Thibs decides to go.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 24, 2023, 06:30:01 PM
http://www.theringer.com/2023/4/24/23695748/jalen-brunson-knicks-cavaliers (http://www.theringer.com/2023/4/24/23695748/jalen-brunson-knicks-cavaliers)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on April 24, 2023, 06:43:04 PM
Quote from: chipstern on April 24, 2023, 12:17:28 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 24, 2023, 11:50:29 AM
Expect more makes from DM in game five.

Without a doubt

Gigantic talent

Cost to Knicks would've gutted our youth,  rotational depth and the draft assets to replenish it.

Not just that. As has been said around here before, the Mitchell/Brunson combo would have been defensively challenged. That goes double in the playoffs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on April 24, 2023, 06:46:09 PM
As a big detractor of RJ (tho I'm always pulling for him), he played a HUGE role in Sunday's game.

He's had plenty of games making more points, but I can't recall a career performance that was more critical.

Good fucking timing!

It's really amazing...and impressive...that we're up 3-1 without Julius or IQ doing their thing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on April 25, 2023, 11:36:56 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 24, 2023, 06:30:01 PM
http://www.theringer.com/2023/4/24/23695748/jalen-brunson-knicks-cavaliers (http://www.theringer.com/2023/4/24/23695748/jalen-brunson-knicks-cavaliers)

Really interesting analysis, and just the kind of thing I rarely notice.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on April 25, 2023, 09:35:16 PM
Quote from: elephant on April 25, 2023, 11:36:56 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 24, 2023, 06:30:01 PM
http://www.theringer.com/2023/4/24/23695748/jalen-brunson-knicks-cavaliers (http://www.theringer.com/2023/4/24/23695748/jalen-brunson-knicks-cavaliers)

Really interesting analysis, and just the kind of thing I rarely notice.

Thibs & Johnny B
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 26, 2023, 12:39:26 AM
The have adjusted very well to the Cavs hunting Brunson switches. It helps in hiding him that he is always the third or fourth best perimeter defender depending on the lineup, such as when Hart and RJ are the forwards.

The Cavs problem is we can hunt Garland and Mitchell. You can not hide two guys at once. And if they stagger them, their lineups only have one or two guys who can shoot in them causing problems as bad on the other end.

Lack of two way depth can be a bigger problem than lack of star power.

Rose knows and we are up 3-1.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 26, 2023, 02:05:17 PM
If Mitchell and Garland both catch fire we will be in trouble. If they have average games and Mobley or LeVert get hot thing will be just as bad.
Title: Tears Of Joy
Post by: chipstern on April 26, 2023, 09:36:03 PM
❤️🫂❤️

THIBS
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on April 26, 2023, 11:49:35 PM
Amen.
Title: Re: Tears Of Joy
Post by: carlos123 on April 27, 2023, 12:05:06 AM
Quote from: chipstern on April 26, 2023, 09:36:03 PM
❤️🫂❤️

THIBS

❤️🏀❤️

GET WELL SOON, KING JULIUS
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 27, 2023, 12:28:12 AM
Job one done. House money from here out.

Which is good because my god, the Heat.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 27, 2023, 01:17:43 AM
Next series should be an epic display of ugly basketball.

Get well JR. Get well QG. We will need you
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on April 27, 2023, 10:03:41 AM
Knicks won in the front court. Knicks match up well even WO Randle. By the way he did not seem like the news on his injury was good.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on April 27, 2023, 11:19:46 AM
Even the untimely death of Jerry Springer cannot diminish the joy in the lesterdawg household today!
Title: Gotterdamerung
Post by: chipstern on April 27, 2023, 11:22:51 AM
The idea that Miami is an easier matchup than the Bucks is nonsense.

Even without Herro

They have great shooting

Kyle Lowry is finally in game shape

Kevin Love gives the Knicks fits

Bam A is far more intense and accomplished than Allen & Mobley

And Jimmy Buckets is the BOMB, easily the most dominant dangerous player in the playoffs

There will be blood.  Heat are Knicks doppelganger
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on April 27, 2023, 11:32:39 AM
Nope, not in the least. Jimmy is ridiculous. Spo may be the best coach in the game. Still can't fathom what the Cavs were thinking when they set Love free. Going to be an absolutely delicious series.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 27, 2023, 04:04:50 PM
I like giving the Jimmy Butler assignment to RJ. I think he will get crushed at first but will grow into it throughout the series.

That is a bit of graduate work not available under any other circumstances.

It also frees Hart to freelance or ice a sniper.

Sims is done. He is getting shoulder surgery.

Attrition is real in these playoffs.

Any Jules updates yet?
Title: Butler Is The Realization Of What RJ Might Be
Post by: chipstern on April 27, 2023, 07:28:55 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 27, 2023, 04:04:50 PM
I like giving the Jimmy Butler assignment to RJ. I think he will get crushed at first but will grow into it throughout the series.

That is a bit of graduate work not available under any other circumstances.

It also frees Hart to freelance or ice a sniper.

Sims is done. He is getting shoulder surgery.

Attrition is real in these playoffs.

Any Jules updates yet?

Word is, not as serious a set back as the original injury.  Has Thurs, Fri and Sat to get it together.  I would be shocked is Julius ain't out there on Sunday. Who knows about Grimes? 

I'm sure when Thibs looks at RJ, he sees the second coming of Jimmy Butler. 

Took Jimmy a while to develop a reliable jumper, and THEN, to perfect a reliable trey.  He was a slasher and a defender.  RJ's defense is evolving...seems to toggle between SoSo and MuchBetter in direct relation to his to the rack aggression.  His dishing off of drive and kick is developing nicely. 

So long as RJ remains in attack mode, going to the rack instead of settling for treys [Julius was digging this simple truth like a motherfucker, in staking us to a lead, before hurting his ankle again], he gives Jimmy something to think about.  Now, defending Jimmy?  A defining moment.
Title: One Last Time
Post by: chipstern on April 27, 2023, 08:19:35 PM
Donovan Mitchell is a great offensive player, and a good facilitator. 

We have just seen a reflection of what a Mitchell-Brunson back court, devoid of our youthful bench might have looked like.  And why I consistently, stubbornly did not mourn Leon Rose not pulling the trigger. 

A denuded bench, and the absence of draft assets to restock. 

Collin Sexton, Lauri Markkanen, Ochai Agbaji. 

Pick your own Knicks going out the door. 

IQ, Obi, RJ?  Mitchell? 

Be that as it may, if we had pulled the trigger, we might not have had the capital to get Josh Hart. 

Much as a Mitchell-Garland back court, as dynamic as it is offensively, is on the small side physically, and thus challenged defensively, and as ball  dominant as DM is, well...would Brunson have emerged as our unquestioned leader, with the larger, less sexy, more effective/complimentary/defense-oriented Josh Hart next to him? 

IQ and Obi both raised their games, RJ's journey continues apace.  Mitchell?  FUCK ME. 

Leon proceeded prudently and patiently, developing our youth, not squandering draft capital, but using it strategically to create cap space for Brunson, and to pounce on Josh "Oh SHIT" Hart. 

Think Lauri Markkanen and Kevin Love might have been useful against the Knicks. 

Again, looking at Cleveland AND Minnesota, we have seen the price of going all in on a Danny Ainge "Deal" 

Leon didn't make the sexy move, took the heat for it, and he gave Thibs the space to work things out...taking the heat for that too. 

Now we have a core of youth who have had two, three, four, five years to ripen on the vine.  AND THEY ARE COMING THROUGH. 

And now we are in the second round, in a Battle Of Staligrad match up with our trad rival, led by two of the absolute best players in this year's playoffs, with an honest chance to advance to the finals. 

SMILE. 

Title: Re: Butler Is The Realization Of What RJ Might Be
Post by: elephant on April 28, 2023, 04:33:22 AM
Quote from: chipstern on April 27, 2023, 07:28:55 PM

I'm sure when Thibs looks at RJ, he sees the second coming of Jimmy Butler. 


Say what?

Now why do you got to push the envelope here?

I'm staying with the era-of-good-feeling, so I'm going to ignore this kind of absurdity...

....and pull for RJ in these destined and magical playoffs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on April 28, 2023, 08:15:49 AM
Knicks have finally arrived 3 scorers with Randle and a great center. Bench depth is nice as well. Team builders no longer are morons. Is this the blind squirrel theory or the one about the broken clock? Been a long 2 decades. I do not understand the ragging on RJ a solid 20 pt scorer who plays decent D. Maybe reached his ceiling not quite the superstar?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 28, 2023, 03:21:07 PM
New theory of how to kill the heat.

Guard Jimmy with Jules as much as possible early. By Jules fourth foul or half time switch to Hart and Get Obi on the floor.

Also in the early going hunt for Jimmy covering Jules situations and put them in the post on a clear out.

The idea of this is to see if there actually is a point where post season Jimmy actually breaks down if we beat his ass early and run his ass late.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 28, 2023, 03:29:26 PM
If we had Sims a available I would feel better about this one. We will miss his combo of power mobility and great motor and fundamentals.

The way Thibs used Deuce to monkey wrench the Cleveland backcourt machine can work with a healthy Sims on the Miami frontcourt.

Fortunately for us it is Zeller and not Dedmon backing up Bam this year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 28, 2023, 03:40:03 PM
Grimes say he feels good and is practicing with expectation to play
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 28, 2023, 03:56:45 PM
If Randle is unavailable, hunting for opportunities to let Hartenstein take Butler into the post should also serve our purpose of dishing out wear and tear by the bucketful.

Does anyone else available on Miami even start to scare you?

If we can handle Jimmy we got this. If we cannot handle him, oh boy.

The Heat will slow us down and muck us up in ways the Cavs could not even imagine.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 28, 2023, 04:00:06 PM
On second thought, I am also scared of Nicola Jovic. Love could be a problem, but I suspect that if he gets warm Brunson will quickly hunt him off the court.
Title: Butler Is The Realization Of What RJ Might Be
Post by: chipstern on April 28, 2023, 06:30:29 PM
Quote from: elephant on April 28, 2023, 04:33:22 AM
Quote from: chipstern on April 27, 2023, 07:28:55 PM

I'm sure when Thibs looks at RJ, he sees the second coming of Jimmy Butler. 


Say what?

Now why do you got to push the envelope here?

I'm staying with the era-of-good-feeling, so I'm going to ignore this kind of absurdity...

....and pull for RJ in these destined and magical playoffs.

Big Wings For Thibs

RJ is 22
Butler is 33

Is RJ the equal of Jimmy as a shooter or defender?

Nope. 

But it took Jimmy four years to reach twenty a game.  RJ three.  Both under Thibs. 

In his fourth season, over 38. 7 minutes in 65 games? 

Butler averaged 20.0-5.8-3.3 with a .378% 3 point clip and an .834 FT% [getting to the line 7.1 times a game].

In RJ's fourth season, coming off a 20-5.8-3.0 third season in 33.9 minutes over 73 games?

Barrett averaged 19.6-5.0-2.8, dipping to a .310% 3 point percentage, with a .740 FT % [getting to the line 5.4 times a game]. 

RJ is still dialing in his shot, to put it mildly.  In the last two games against the Cavs, his defense was much more focused, he prioritized his downhill/attack the rack game, got to the line, and began to get both short and long jumpers to fall. 

Am I saying RJ IS JIMMY.  No.  But Jimmy is the template for what RJ is evolving into.  He has a way to go in terms of consistency and command of his short-midrange stop and pop off the dribble, let alone his long range game, let alone bringing that Butler Defense night in and night out...certainly Grimes and Hart are a good template. 

You think my compairisons are absurd? 

Fair enough. 

But one of the reasons we put a hurting on Cleveland was Barrett's play in Games Four and Five. 

Let's see how it carries over. 

GO KNICKS. 

They will be guarding each other starting Sunday, and clearly Hart will want a piece of that pussy. 
Title: Spitballing
Post by: chipstern on April 28, 2023, 07:37:26 PM
For what it's worth?

Jae Crowder is a free agent this summer. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 28, 2023, 10:52:15 PM
RJ is only an average sized wing. He is strong and slow relative to most in the league his size. Jimmy is taller, longer, quicker and at least as strong.

RJ is a good player and we would not be where we are if he had not put in all the work every game. We will not get any farther without him. That said, unless something really weird happens he is not on his way to being the next Jimmy Butler.
Title: Re: Spitballing
Post by: facilitatorn on April 28, 2023, 11:22:39 PM
Quote from: chipstern on April 28, 2023, 07:37:26 PM
For what it's worth?

Jae Crowder is a free agent this summer.

Trey Lyles is an FA this summer, which is worth more.

I am rooting for GS to keep him vaguely in our price range.
Title: NextManUp
Post by: chipstern on April 29, 2023, 05:36:53 PM
Sunday
Without
[?]

Julius
Jericho
Quentin

GUT CHECK
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on April 29, 2023, 05:43:33 PM
We're up for it, man!

Mitch has never played better. IQ is ready for a breakout game. And Brunson/Hart are tough as nails every.damn.game.

Bring it on!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 30, 2023, 03:44:25 PM
That was rough as shit.

However this goes, this series is exactly what the Knicks need to experience to take the next step in development.

We have a lot of adjustments to make. RJ has to learn to navigate his way through playoff heat level pressure. We need to be quicker and more decisive in general.

Our big problems are Butler, Lowry, and Love. Hopefully the game plan will show some adjustments.

We got and missed plenty of open shots. There is still some room to turn the tables.

The three highest paid players in this series are Butler, Bam and Lowry. Forget who is 8 and who is 5. It was always going to be uphill the whole way.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on April 30, 2023, 04:36:19 PM
Played well in first half. RJ especially strong. Knicks almost broke it open...but couldn't quite get there. A bit unlucky in places.

The second half wasn't pretty, and the last quarter was pretty fucking miserable.

Regarding RJ again, I've said many times during the year that I don't like him on the floor in the last 5 minutes, regardless of how he's been playing. I've watched him for some 270 games, and he's unusually prone to mistakes at the end of game.

So it was torturous for me to see the sequence of foul, turnover, turnover, blocked shot.

Brunson has got to be the man there. And he said as much after the game.

Hope Grimes can make more of an impact Tuesday. WIth the loss, I'm assuming we'll see Julius then.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 30, 2023, 04:49:55 PM
We have to attack the legs of Butler and Lowry. We should not let either stand still on the floor for a second unless they are taking themselves out of their offense.

Every time we get the ball those guys should be run through several hard screens each and even better banged into one another. If we fail to break down the Miami geezers they will snatch the soul out of the Knicks this series.

Nice teams finish last.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on April 30, 2023, 04:51:34 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 30, 2023, 04:49:55 PM
We have to attack the legs of Butler and Lowry. We should not let either stand still on the floor for a second unless they are taking themselves out of their offense.

Every time we get the ball those guys should be run through several hard screens each and even better banged into one another. If we fail to break down the Miami geezers they will snatch the soul out of the Knicks this series.

Nice teams finish last.

Yeah, I like this idea.

Lowry was killer today on both ends.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on April 30, 2023, 05:57:20 PM
And don't give up any more 4-point plays!

That sucker turned the game around.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 01, 2023, 03:10:29 AM
The refs jobbed us like they had money riding on the outcome. The phantom call on Grimes would be the prime example.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on May 01, 2023, 11:46:35 AM
A lot of missed shots and sloppy ball handling. Julie was missed.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 01, 2023, 01:48:10 PM
With all the foreign born players in the NBA I do not know how you can even watch half a quarter without your blood boiling over.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on May 01, 2023, 02:34:06 PM
Support the immigrant who waits the wait, learns the constitution, is not violent and does not sell drugs or his sister. Really small amount of players come over legally.  At most 20-30 a year?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 01, 2023, 04:04:23 PM
Do you support the citizen who learns the constitution, is non violent and does not sell drugs to his sister? Or does your support for citizens include the ignorant, violent and predatory?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 01, 2023, 04:04:49 PM
This series turns on ankles.
Title: Julie
Post by: carlos123 on May 01, 2023, 04:31:04 PM
Quote from: luee on May 01, 2023, 11:46:35 AM
A lot of missed shots and sloppy ball handling. Julie was missed.

I do not know this Julie, but I am sure she was missed nevertheless.
Title: BRUNSON?
Post by: chipstern on May 01, 2023, 10:59:21 PM
According to THE POST, Brunson has ankle soreness and is questionable for Tuesday night.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 01, 2023, 11:07:49 PM
Do not look at me, man. I had nothing to do with it.
Title: Doom and gloom
Post by: carlos123 on May 02, 2023, 12:01:58 AM
Without Brunson we are DOOMED.

Life can be so f-in unfair.

Hope he recovers in time for tomorrow!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 02, 2023, 08:21:53 AM
Brunson will likely play.   If not you would see Julius don the cape.  Figuring with both out there we win if we play well late.   Meanwhile my Philly-Denver Finals is looking good.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 02, 2023, 11:05:34 AM
Even if Brunson doesn't play, Quick tends to do fine as a starter.

Of greater import, will Spo roast Thibs a second time?

That's the matchup that's killing us.



*** yes philly denver looking strong
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on May 02, 2023, 11:20:11 AM
Yes enough issues taking care of the needs of legal American citizens, without importing the burden of millions more. You got the threats against people with SS. Increase the budget or else we have to cut benefits. There already is a cut of benefits and services. Just send them back and close the border. No I do not want drugs or to have sex with your sister.
Title: How did this get into our meager playoff convo?
Post by: lesterluv on May 02, 2023, 01:12:33 PM
whatever, we'd be so f'd without immigrants, legal and illegal, keeping moribund towns alive, opening businesses, doing the jobs that can't be filled, contributing exponentially more to the coffers than they take, ever so slightly reducing the percentage of fuckhead peckerwoods...they will be the ones keeping SS alive. Open the m'fn doors wider!

and you..shut your dumb ass up and take it elsewhere
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 02, 2023, 01:30:46 PM
Both teams very tight lipped about their injury reports. Max tension builds
Title: Re: How did this get into our meager playoff convo?
Post by: facilitatorn on May 02, 2023, 01:33:54 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on May 02, 2023, 01:12:33 PM
whatever, we'd be so f'd without immigrants, legal and illegal, keeping moribund towns alive, opening businesses, doing the jobs that can't be filled, contributing exponentially more to the coffers than they take, ever so slightly reducing the percentage of fuckhead peckerwoods...they will be the ones keeping SS alive. Open the m'fn doors wider!

and you..shut your dumb ass up and take it elsewhere

Luee only has the one thought.

Apologies for goading him into rubbing his two brain cells together and eliciting his ugly spasm.

Will keep it on topic here for the extent of the run at least
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 02, 2023, 01:45:28 PM
Apologies accepted.

** already begun my game time prep, have been wearing the $14.99 Starbury high tops since noon, browsing through Bill Bradley's "A Sense of Where You Are" between work calls
Title: OF COURSE YOU KNOW, THIS MEANS WAR
Post by: chipstern on May 02, 2023, 11:06:30 PM
Mirasja couldn't make it through the first half.  Went totally menstrual.

I mean, duh...even without Herro and Butler, great coach, great team, great system.

Julius big: what, 25-12-8.  Great kicks to Jalen and Josh.  Of course, wouldn't be Julius without that ending turnover.  Still, our lead dawg.  Heroic.

RJ, great first half.  Jalen great second.

Josh, a near triple double.

Isaiah, just...gritty.

Thibs subbing out Grimes for RJ final five.

Saturday in Miami, presumably with Jimmy Buckets.

Or as Bugs Bunny put it...

OF COURSE YOU KNOW, THIS MEANS WAR.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: LarryB! on May 02, 2023, 11:34:33 PM
Quote from: luee on May 02, 2023, 11:20:11 AM
Yes enough issues taking care of the needs of legal American citizens, without importing the burden of millions more. You got the threats against people with SS. Increase the budget or else we have to cut benefits. There already is a cut of benefits and services. Just send them back and close the border. No I do not want drugs or to have sex with your sister.

Wrong forum, Jocko.

You need to comment on the racist, xenophobic fool forum
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on May 03, 2023, 12:45:53 AM
Perfect solution would be to send the nueva Americanos to the beautiful underpopulated state of Alaska. No seamy jungles and there is a real need for fentanyl and senioritas. Once again I am a member of the American born veteran race. This has little to do with racial differentials but is more of a quality of life issue. No homelessness just put up an igloo.
Title: Nueva Tegucigalpa
Post by: carlos123 on May 03, 2023, 01:27:01 AM
Thankfully, you are stuck in Honduras with a useless shotgun, so you are unlikely to be able to do much harm.

But, more important, GO KNICKS!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 03, 2023, 01:59:45 AM
Anything is better than being stuck in Florida with the toothless inbreds and toothless meth heads and almost no one else.

Fuck ignorant racist crackers and fuck the Heat.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on May 03, 2023, 05:09:55 AM
Nice win for Nueva Yorka.
Title: Nueva Tegucigalpa
Post by: carlos123 on May 03, 2023, 11:08:25 AM
Quote from: luee on May 03, 2023, 05:09:55 AM
Nice win for Nueva Yorka.

Hey Luee, while you struggle in Honduras, i am here in New York, REPLACING you.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on May 03, 2023, 11:55:45 AM
This series. Damn. Does feel like a game of chess.

I wouldn't mind one unexciting game where we win by 35.
Title: Re: Nueva Tegucigalpa
Post by: LarryB! on May 03, 2023, 02:11:31 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 03, 2023, 11:08:25 AM
Quote from: luee on May 03, 2023, 05:09:55 AM
Nice win for Nueva Yorka.

Hey Luee, while you struggle in Honduras, i am here in New York, REPLACING you.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 03, 2023, 02:34:25 PM
Quote from: elephant on May 03, 2023, 11:55:45 AM
This series. Damn. Does feel like a game of chess.

I wouldn't mind one unexciting game where we win by 35.

I am good to keep this nitty gritty all the way through. We are invested in most of these guys for several years at least. Lets get the temper only forged into teams through epic battles now, here, in this series.

If it turns out that we learn to play the Heat faster than they learn to play the Knicks that would be awesome, but I expect and welcome the growing pressure of a series that remains tight throughout.
Title: Re: Nueva Tegucigalpa
Post by: luee on May 03, 2023, 08:01:36 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 03, 2023, 11:08:25 AM
Quote from: luee on May 03, 2023, 05:09:55 AM
Nice win for Nueva Yorka.

Hey Luee, while you struggle in Honduras, i am here in New York, REPLACING you.



Nobody in Honduras everybody here. It is a difficult concept to understand. Gates are open so sad.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on May 03, 2023, 10:19:01 PM
Why would an American veteran move to a Banana republic?
Title: Nueva Tegucigalpa
Post by: carlos123 on May 04, 2023, 01:45:27 AM
Quote from: luee on May 03, 2023, 10:19:01 PM
Why would an American veteran move to a Banana republic?

Because he is weird? You need to tell us.

It is your signature, not mine, I am just your worst nightmare, your REPLACEMENT.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on May 04, 2023, 06:33:47 AM
Weird is allowing anyone in. Creating chaos st the border. No I do not want fentanyl or a date with your sister.
Title: Nueva Tegucigalpa
Post by: carlos123 on May 04, 2023, 10:21:46 AM
Quote from: luee on May 04, 2023, 06:33:47 AM
Weird is allowing anyone in. Creating chaos st the border. No I do not want fentanyl or a date with your sister.

Well, I am in. I have no plans to leave. Goodbye to you and your shotgun.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 04, 2023, 01:41:19 PM
Quote from: luee on May 04, 2023, 06:33:47 AM
Weird is allowing anyone in. Creating chaos st the border. No I do not want fentanyl or a date with your sister.

Says the self diddling crackhead.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: LarryB! on May 04, 2023, 05:53:41 PM
Quote from: luee on May 04, 2023, 06:33:47 AM
Weird is allowing anyone in. Creating chaos st the border. No I do not want fentanyl or a date with your sister.

Did some brown guy long dick your high school sweetheart?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 04, 2023, 07:00:03 PM
Quote from: luee on May 03, 2023, 10:19:01 PM
Why would an American veteran move to a Banana republic?

He misses the asinine jingoism of the Reagan years. Trump is a loser and will never rise again. Spiritually he has nowhere else to go and nowhere else he would rather be. Not necessarily in that order.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on May 04, 2023, 07:28:16 PM
Trump is a narcissist slumlord type who actually is guilty of treason and sedition for causing riots. Kamala is my choice but she is blocked as loyal VP. Trying to find a good second choice. Fringe kicked out Susan Rice. Republicans too tied up to Donald. A very dangerous choice. Open immigration is a major issue for many. But hey Knicks are good.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 05, 2023, 02:38:59 AM
Knicks will be even better if someone leapfrogs Dallas in the lottery.

Kamala is young and busy and learning in her current role and has all the potential to excel as chief executive.

You have a good bead on trump.

We are trying to help orient you perspective in a more factual basis when it comes to open immigration. There is a wide menu of very legitimate concerns about how and why immigration is handled the way it is. Those who advance themselves by being publicly angry about open immigration are often among those who do the most to make the situation worse.

Title: Open Immigration
Post by: lesterluv on May 05, 2023, 12:58:49 PM
While I shouldn't continue to indulge this nonsense during the (currently) second greatest Knick run of the millennium...

It's time to STFU about "Open Immigration" because we don't have it. Or anything close to it. Folks who swallow the lie generally correlate with low-levels of IQ and high-levels of self-hatred.

The Obama/Trump/Biden approaches to immigration are really pretty similar, pretty draconian, tiny details of difference, though, with the two Dems, thankfully, sans the overt race hatred expressed and cultivated by the orange fuck.

We don't have anything approaching Open Immigration nor will we.

However, if we did, it would be an absolute economic bonanza for the United States and cause real problems for the people-donor countries. Probably +2-4 points of GDP, save industries, save SS, save neighborhoods, save cities.
Title: Re: Open Immigration
Post by: LarryB! on May 05, 2023, 02:15:26 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on May 05, 2023, 12:58:49 PM
While I shouldn't continue to indulge this nonsense during the (currently) second greatest Knick run of the millennium...

It's time to STFU about "Open Immigration" because we don't have it. Or anything close to it. Folks who swallow the lie generally correlate with low-levels of IQ and high-levels of self-hatred.

The Obama/Trump/Biden approaches to immigration are really pretty similar, pretty draconian, tiny details of difference, though, with the two Dems, thankfully, sans the overt race hatred expressed and cultivated by the orange fuck.

We don't have anything approaching Open Immigration nor will we.

However, if we did, it would be an absolute economic bonanza for the United States and cause real problems for the people-donor countries. Probably +2-4 points of GDP, save industries, save SS, save neighborhoods, save cities.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on May 05, 2023, 03:41:11 PM
Moore homelessness  and crime and a hurt for the economy.


---The U.S. took in more than a million immigrants per year in the late 1990s, more than at any other time in history. For humanitarian and many other reasons, this may be good news. But as George Borjas shows in Heaven
Title: Dinty Moore Homelessness
Post by: lesterluv on May 05, 2023, 04:14:50 PM
less homelessness, less crime and a massive win for the economy.

But go on...continue to display your ignorance and lack of self-esteem as often as you require, but preferably in a different place.
Title: Open forum
Post by: carlos123 on May 05, 2023, 04:21:57 PM
Let him do it here. It is ok. We can take it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on May 06, 2023, 12:44:19 AM
Hey, don't mean to interrupt, but I hear the Knicks might be playing a game Saturday.
Title: Ok
Post by: carlos123 on May 06, 2023, 01:22:27 AM
Quote from: elephant on May 06, 2023, 12:44:19 AM
Hey, don't mean to interrupt, but I hear the Knicks might be playing a game Saturday.

So, tell us about it. We winning or what?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on May 06, 2023, 08:14:05 AM
Wonderful game coming up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 06, 2023, 02:34:11 PM
Get ready for Super Jimmy. It is gonna take all hands on deck.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 06, 2023, 06:54:47 PM
Yikes.

Major miracle required to keep this season afloat.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on May 06, 2023, 09:07:14 PM
OK back to the immigration issues.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on May 06, 2023, 11:43:09 PM
Can the Knicks comeback?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on May 07, 2023, 12:22:09 PM
Yeah, we shot the 3 ball terribly, and you can't do that in playoffs.

But is Randle injured? Because it's not a matter of his shots going in, he just seemed incredibly ineffective on all fronts. A weak, even astonishing performance from an all-star.

Hardly anyone played well. Mitch disappeared. RJ was sluggish. We were in totally predictable mode.

Thib's turn to make adjustments...or else.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on May 07, 2023, 01:46:20 PM
Heat did not look like a super team during regular season. Shooting was an issue even against the Cavs. Oh well only 1-2.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 07, 2023, 02:52:18 PM
Quote from: elephant on May 07, 2023, 12:22:09 PM
Yeah, we shot the 3 ball terribly, and you can't do that in playoffs.

But is Randle injured? Because it's not a matter of his shots going in, he just seemed incredibly ineffective on all fronts. A weak, even astonishing performance from an all-star.

Hardly anyone played well. Mitch disappeared. RJ was sluggish. We were in totally predictable mode.

Thib's turn to make adjustments...or else.

We tried too many isos that failed early with Brunson and Randle. Nothing does so much so quickly to suck the life out of a team and give spark to the opponent.

I told ya the Heat would muck us up. I did not know we would be making it as easy as possible for them. It seems rather than Brunson influencing the play of Randle, Randle is influencing Brunson to the advantage of nobody but the Heat.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on May 07, 2023, 03:48:19 PM
Just to return to the idea of injuries with Randle. If he's hurt and can't perform at a higher level (his defense yesterday seemed awful), then he's really got to play less minutes.

I know Julius wants to grit it out, but if this is his hero ball, it ain't good enough.

We have a better chance giving Obi more minutes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 07, 2023, 07:02:02 PM
The Heat are doing to Brunson and Randle what we did to Garland and Mitchell last round. They have the scheme and personnel for it. It is working on us.

We have to come back at them in a way that either bypasses it or makes that a liability for them.

If we do not, most likely we will continue to lose.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: LarryB! on May 07, 2023, 08:12:16 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on May 07, 2023, 07:02:02 PM
The Heat are doing to Brunson and Randle what we did to Garland and Mitchell last round. They have the scheme and personnel for it. It is working on us.

We have to come back at them in a way that either bypasses it or makes that a liability for them.

If we do not, most likely we will continue to lose.

We have to make those open looks and free throws
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on May 08, 2023, 03:04:33 PM
Oh well big step forward this year. Knicks are finally relevant in the championship chase. Number one need is a cold blooded 3 pt. shooter.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 08, 2023, 06:46:52 PM
Is there any topic you are not an idiot on? I ask because it is not something you have ever managed to achieve in a forum post.
Title: Hey Fac
Post by: carlos123 on May 08, 2023, 06:55:40 PM
Come on man. Dont be so hard on Luee, he has been chastised enough, and me being a softie I feel bad for the poor thing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 08, 2023, 10:06:49 PM
Luee has the kind of rotting brain that pests like Tucker feed on.

That was a sad game.

Miami is a tough place to win. I do not think the Knicks will be heading back there this season.

Lowry and Butler were better than anyone we had out there on the court.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on May 08, 2023, 10:08:30 PM
That was so fucking brutal.

There's losing...and then there are the losses we've seen in the last couple of games.

Why must I suffer?!
Title: Minutes
Post by: carlos123 on May 08, 2023, 10:12:55 PM
Randle 39. Brunson 44. Grimes 42.
Toppin 6. McBride 4.

Whats wrong with that?
For one thing, we are playing a 7 man rotation and tired in the 4Q.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 09, 2023, 01:46:16 PM
Does anyone think we can take three in a row from these guys?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 09, 2023, 02:41:11 PM
the Knicks clearly don't so it doesn't matter what we think...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: LarryB! on May 09, 2023, 05:24:28 PM
They can give it the old college try
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on May 09, 2023, 10:46:30 PM
I thought Randle played much better than the previous game. And I realize that he may be playing hurt. But what strikes me is his psychological fragility. The game at that level requires so much focus and concentration, but he can't seem to control his head. Bitch about a foul. Fine. But then let the shit go. Focus. Be in the moment. When he's in one of these waves, he just seems wildly distracted by anything bad that's happened on the court. That leads to the lack of hustle we see more and more. It's just like he's not all there.

If any athlete needs a good therapist, it might well be Julius.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 10, 2023, 01:32:04 AM
First thing to attack on the Knicks is Randles head. The Hawks did it and now the Heat are too.

I am more impressed with the work Vincent is doing on Brunson.

We might need to rework some of our thoughts about roster construction when all is said and done.
Title: The Mental
Post by: lesterluv on May 10, 2023, 09:18:04 AM
Quote from: elephant on May 09, 2023, 10:46:30 PM
It's just like he's not all there.

If any athlete needs a good therapist, it might well be Julius.

Yes, Randle is more than fragile, he is mentally ill. I am pretty sure he's already in therapy.

It's a good reason not to try and build a franchise around him.

A good reason to give Obi more than spot minutes over the last three years.

* btw, some people are saying Obi looks like a$$ these playoffs. I don't think so at all, love how he's finally trying different stuff as folks cover the corner three and Thibs reductive offense is exposed..taking through the lane, along baseline, stuff in the paint etc..sure, he hasn't always been executing, but what do you expect...should have been getting those FREE MINUTES like RJ-the original-LOW IQ BARRETT..

** Speaking of whom, it is astounding, which the exception of his oop-combo to Mitch, how truly turrible RJ's passes are. Never in rhythm, never on the spot. He delivers it at your ankles, at your ears, to the left, right and sideways. Amazing that he ever has an assist.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 10, 2023, 09:32:33 AM
I firmly believe it ends tonight, and we get going on the next steps in our build.
But by all means, surprise me Knicks.

Make my day!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on May 10, 2023, 10:16:24 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on May 10, 2023, 09:32:33 AM
I firmly believe it ends tonight, and we get going on the next steps in our build.
But by all means, surprise me Knicks.

Make my day!

Fuck
You
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on May 10, 2023, 10:30:06 PM
Got a chance to exhale.

I'll take it!

The funny thing about our Julius. When he's playing well, I'm so happy for the guy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 10, 2023, 10:41:11 PM
I
Title: Hey Fac
Post by: carlos123 on May 10, 2023, 10:44:46 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on May 10, 2023, 10:41:11 PM
I

You what?

Please dont leave us on pins and needles, needles and pins.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 11, 2023, 12:06:43 AM
Quote from: chipstern on May 10, 2023, 10:16:24 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on May 10, 2023, 09:32:33 AM
I firmly believe it ends tonight, and we get going on the next steps in our build.
But by all means, surprise me Knicks.

Make my day!

Fuck
You

lol lol RIGHT BACK ATYA

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 11, 2023, 12:10:52 AM
remarkably, they made my day without any participation by Julius in the end game! He began his final stint with a full fledged BEN SIMMONS and then spent the next 6 minutes FULLON ZOMBIE before waking up for that final flush
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 11, 2023, 12:13:01 AM
crazy stuff!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 11, 2023, 03:20:33 AM
We avoid the gentlemans sweep. These are priceless minutes.

Brunson did something interesting with the Duncan Robinson switch late. He gave him a chance to switch back and then used Duncan trying to recover to another Knick as an unwitting pick to trip up the primary defender.

Fouls played a key role in this game. Keeping things moving and pushing ahead more than usual helped us there.

We can play better. We will have to to force game seven.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on May 11, 2023, 12:46:33 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on May 11, 2023, 12:10:52 AM
remarkably, they made my day without any participation by Julius in the end game! He began his final stint with a full fledged BEN SIMMONS and then spent the next 6 minutes FULLON ZOMBIE before waking up for that final flush

What game were you watching, Troll?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on May 11, 2023, 01:50:30 PM
Love the way RJ has been playing. Great to see.

And he was clutch with his foul shots in the last two minutes.

That said, I was holding my breath at the end and would still use the final 5-minute RJ rule. As I've said throughout the year (and feel free to point to evidence that refutes this observation), he's proven himself unreliable in the last few minutes of a game. When the defense raises its level to an urgent pitch, he often dribbles poorly, passes poorly, makes bonehead mistakes. 

Why? Dunno.

But if we're in another close game with 3 minutes left, I'd prefer Hart.
Title: A keen sense of reality
Post by: lesterluv on May 11, 2023, 02:59:16 PM
Quote from: chipstern on May 11, 2023, 12:46:33 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on May 11, 2023, 12:10:52 AM
remarkably, they made my day without any participation by Julius in the end game! He began his final stint with a full fledged BEN SIMMONS and then spent the next 6 minutes FULLON ZOMBIE before waking up for that final flush

What game were you watching, Troll?

lmao, what game did you watch? Please remove head from between cheeks and go back to the videotape.

Julius returns to the game at 8:30 and does virtually nothing til 17.8, at least nothing good.

7:40 The Ben Simmons Moment lol, rather than put it up point blank he shovels it to Mitch who is fouled and has to shoot free throws. The announcers are flat out incredulous.

Randle had an open look around the rim
Yes, You put it up, You miss, Guess who is right there in position for an offensive rebound, Mitchell Robinson.
There is no way Robinson expected a pass there
At all. He was looking at trying to get in position in case the shot came out

It does not get better.

Some plays he hides from the ball.
Other plays, with a keen sense of reality, JB wisely looks him off rather then put the ball into his halfhearted hands.

Julius wanders around the court, fails to block out, fails to get loose balls, basically does NADA til 17.8 left. Like I say, a miracle we pulled it out and live to play another day.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 11, 2023, 03:44:47 PM
It bleeds the energy and focus from the Heat to keep Randle in check. I agree at the moment he focuses way too much on all the wrong things. I think it is possible he could refine his understanding of his role this off-season, but for this run this is the Randle we got.

Our being more effective at stymying Love than they were at containing Randle along with hanging ten fouls on their point guards made the difference in game 5. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 12, 2023, 09:28:13 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on May 11, 2023, 03:44:47 PM
It bleeds the energy and focus from the Heat to keep Randle in check.

Surely a lot there. Despite his equally subpar performance against the Cavs, he kept the attention of Evan Mobley fully occupied helping all kinds of good things to happen. And better taking no shots than taking bad shots or fumbling away the ball.

Still think he could help a bunch more tho'...say by blocking out 6'5 players, or storming back on transition D, a speciality of mentally healthy players.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on May 12, 2023, 11:38:51 AM
Nice game knicks should be 5-10 points better on measurable talent. Fantastic job by heat coach.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 12, 2023, 05:00:35 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on May 12, 2023, 09:28:13 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on May 11, 2023, 03:44:47 PM
It bleeds the energy and focus from the Heat to keep Randle in check.

Surely a lot there. Despite his equally subpar performance against the Cavs, he kept the attention of Evan Mobley fully occupied helping all kinds of good things to happen. And better taking no shots than taking bad shots or fumbling away the ball.

Still think he could help a bunch more tho'...say by blocking out 6'5 players, or storming back on transition D, a speciality of mentally healthy players.

Yeah. Basically all the stuff Butler prioritizes before his scoring and never takes his focus off of.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on May 12, 2023, 07:22:25 PM
Fuck Butler. Let's see what Brunson has in store for us tonight!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on May 12, 2023, 10:21:40 PM
Well, turns out Brunson was ready.

Just needed some help....and never really got it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on May 12, 2023, 10:23:36 PM
BTW, those games were ugly.

Worth remembering we won a lot of games this year with flow and pace.

Not sure whatever happened to that team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 12, 2023, 11:53:47 PM
We were built to muck up our opponents in the playoffs and even more so are the Heat.

I expect the Heat offense to look better next round whoever they play.

We have a lot to address after a season that was a good push and several steps in the right direction.

May the Mavs slip in the lottery!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 13, 2023, 12:02:17 AM
Since the paint is almost dry,

Cody Martin and Gordon Hayward for Jules and Evan. The money works and there are no restrictions.
Title: Fac, Fac, what is wrong with you, Fac?
Post by: carlos123 on May 13, 2023, 01:11:28 AM
Why oh why would you take Hayward for Julius?

Julius is a much, much better player, warts and all, not to mention younger.

Go back to your coaching commentary and never, ever again get involved in proposing trades.

Thank you 🙏🏼
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 13, 2023, 01:22:33 AM
I am betting this is as right as we will ever see Julius in his head and that this is a sell high moment.

Get some draft picks out of Charlotte or,

Jules and Evan for Siakam and Young from Toronto, a trade that also works financially. 
Title: Sell high
Post by: carlos123 on May 14, 2023, 01:11:27 AM
You call sell high an exchange for Gordon Hayward?

Lordy have mercy!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 14, 2023, 11:29:14 AM
The Gordy proposal is a little on the low side. Alternatively the Siakam proposal may be asking too much.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on May 14, 2023, 03:39:52 PM
Okay I'm pretty sure Fac brandished the besotted corpus of Gordon Hayward just to lure Chip back in for one final meltdown.
Title: Bait
Post by: carlos123 on May 14, 2023, 04:13:58 PM
Quote from: elephant on May 14, 2023, 03:39:52 PM
Okay I'm pretty sure Fac brandished the besotted corpus of Gordon Hayward just to lure Chip back in for one final meltdown.

Not sure he is going to take the bait like I did.
Title: Re: Fac, Fac, what is wrong with you, Fac?
Post by: kiidcarter8 on May 14, 2023, 06:34:09 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on May 13, 2023, 01:11:28 AM
Why oh why would you take Hayward for Julius?

Julius is a much, much better player, warts and all, not to mention younger.

Go back to your coaching commentary and never, ever again get involved in proposing trades.

Thank you 🙏🏼

Doesn't matter who is the better player.  Who fits with Brunson, the only true must keep on the team?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on May 14, 2023, 07:16:50 PM
outcoached pure and simple. Nice try maybe next year. A 3 point specialist for xmas. Cannot sulk too much knix are now one of the better teams in the league. Heat have a deeper bench but nowhere near the starting talent.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: LarryB! on May 16, 2023, 01:03:19 PM
Doc Rivers out in Philly.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 16, 2023, 09:50:17 PM
Big boo to the lottery. We have the Dallas pick under the same protection next year. Could be a way to get back into this years draft.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 18, 2023, 03:23:03 AM
If we are keeping the band together, here is my short list of guys to add before dealing with Hart or the extensions

Jae Crowder Torrey Craig Stanley Johnson Kiata Bates-Diop Alec Burks

That is the group for cheap decent two way players in some role who can shoot.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 19, 2023, 04:47:57 AM
Now that combine measurements are done I think we should look to grab Sidy Cissoko from the Ignite.

He is the same size as Darik Whitehead, Anthony Black, and Cam Whitmore.

He has good size. He is a trained defender who brings intensity. He has come through Europe and the G-League. No AAU tarnish on him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 20, 2023, 12:24:02 AM
I forgot we have Roby coming in next year. I think he can help us as much as anyone outside the top 10 picks anyway.

Mitch Hartenstein Sims
Randle Obi
RJ Roby Fournier
Grimes Hart
Brunson IQ McBride

I think we may move on from Rose for money reasons. Jefferies is still there as well if no one better comes along.
Title: Well
Post by: carlos123 on May 20, 2023, 12:35:13 AM
It looks like we were beaten by the best team in the East.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 20, 2023, 12:59:36 AM
Yeah. Miami is proving how buttery soft Boston is. It
Title: It what?
Post by: carlos123 on May 20, 2023, 03:59:13 PM
Quote from: Fac on May 20, 2023, 12:59:36 AM
Yeah. Miami is proving how buttery soft Boston is. It

Please Fac, do not do this to me. Not knowing your complete thoughts about the Knicks is a cruel deprivation.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 21, 2023, 01:22:33 PM
The apostrophe got to me.

It is a shame we were not the ones who got to finish Boston off.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on May 21, 2023, 03:36:47 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on May 21, 2023, 01:22:33 PM
The apostrophe got to me.

It is a shame we were not the ones who got to finish Boston off.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vw_OUHDvVkM&feature=share#bottom-sheet (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vw_OUHDvVkM&feature=share#bottom-sheet)

Fine Jimmy FUCKING Butler analysis.

Required reading for RJ.

PS: Jamal Murray represents the second #1 pick from the Carmelo heist.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on May 21, 2023, 09:59:46 PM
The Heat are fucking incredible. Just destroying everyone before them.

Tough, cohesive team.

You need three NBA celebrity superstars to move deep in the playoffs, isn't that right?

They're rewriting the book.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on May 21, 2023, 10:05:54 PM
 8)
Quote from: elephant on May 21, 2023, 09:59:46 PM
The Heat are fucking incredible. Just destroying everyone before them.

Tough, cohesive team.

You need three NBA celebrity superstars to move deep in the playoffs, isn't that right?

They're rewriting the book.

Seems as though our Knicks plated them tougher than Mikwaukee AND Boston.

Tough.  Coherent.  Experienced.  Disciplined.  Well.Coached.

This is an astonishing beat down.

Wonder if Celtic fans will scapegoat their bell cows like embittered Knicks "fans" are wont to do.

We played them.tough.

Just a better team, mature culture on a run.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 22, 2023, 03:33:00 PM
Simmons is shipping off Jalen Brown to Portland for Simons and the number 3 pick.

Now things are behind us it is time for internal player value rankings

Brunson
Randle
Barrett
Robinson
Quickley
Grimes
Hart
Hartenstein
Toppin
Sims
McBride
Fournier
Rose
Roby
Jefferies
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on May 22, 2023, 06:06:05 PM
Fantastic job by the Heat coach. 2nd 8 place team ever but this team is on fire. Celts are not at all pushovers.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 23, 2023, 08:12:58 PM
Does Luee think the Celts make it as far as a gentlemans sweep?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 26, 2023, 04:00:35 PM
https://bullswire.usatoday.com/2023/05/26/chicago-bulls-derrick-rose-return-makes-a-ton-of-sense/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 27, 2023, 05:17:32 PM
DeRozan and Williams for Randle and Rose.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on May 28, 2023, 07:50:21 PM
Celts come back a little. Knicks are in the mix finally, someone mentioned the zinger returning?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on May 29, 2023, 07:12:12 AM
First time ever I am rooting for Celts. Just too historic.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 29, 2023, 10:47:09 PM
Glad as ever to see you disappointed and also glad to see you waver in your long held commitments.
Title: Hey Fac
Post by: carlos123 on May 30, 2023, 12:49:53 AM
Dont you feel sorry for poor luee?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 30, 2023, 01:53:57 PM
Nah. Thanks to President Biden and despite republican rapine larceny he will keep his hard earned benefits.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on May 31, 2023, 11:33:45 AM
Surprised front office big guy was let go. Knicks have finally become relevant. Argument over coach, trades? Luee will be ok a trained killer for the US army in his younger days.
Title: Protection
Post by: carlos123 on May 31, 2023, 04:18:38 PM
Quote from: luee on May 31, 2023, 11:33:45 AM
Luee will be ok a trained killer for the US army in his younger days.

Glad to know you will be ok.

If that situation changes, I think Fac will protect you.
Title: Scott Perry...OUT
Post by: chipstern on May 31, 2023, 07:25:02 PM
Facil...WAY Out
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 01, 2023, 05:36:33 PM
Scott had a very nice run in his role. He has been paid. I can see him being ready to take a break and see what else might be out there. I trust that Leon and Wes had most of the pull now anyway.

We need to add someone who will hold down the Butlers and the Tatums of the world. Roby, Randle and Toppin should do everything in their powers to become better defenders at all positions. I think the chance of this occurring and any of them progressing notably is exceedingly small.

If we are keeping Randle Brunson needs to get inside and rewire his head so JB can help him win more especially when things get tough.

These are our real routes to internal development along with a Mitch push shot or a baby hook and more work on his free throws.

That said we are talented with few ridiculous contracts twelve or thirteen deep. We have assets in future drafts. We could shed something in exchange for a player that really plugs that defensive hole. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on June 02, 2023, 11:01:11 AM
playoffs against cavs and heat were defensive grinders. Dont know who knix should pick up. Defense, a consistant 3 pointer. Knix were 20 in FG% and 19 from 3 point land, 20 in steals; top ten in most other stats #2 in RBs.
Title: The Ghost Of BeauDee
Post by: chipstern on June 04, 2023, 09:40:30 PM
Enjoying the solid play of Aaron Gordon.

Elba veterans may recall how BeauDee never missed an opportunity to piss on Gordon, his peculiar derision exceeded only by his wild swings at perennial...
Title: Bo's Pinyatas
Post by: chipstern on June 04, 2023, 09:43:50 PM
...

Jamal Crawford
And
Zach Randolph
Title: Miami
Post by: chipstern on June 04, 2023, 10:59:14 PM
Grit

And raining threes
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 05, 2023, 05:56:04 PM
Oli Prosper and Kobe Brown are guys I have an eye on for a late run swoop. We could develop and use either player in our current context.
Title: Re: Miami
Post by: facilitatorn on June 05, 2023, 05:57:23 PM
Quote from: chipstern on June 04, 2023, 10:59:14 PM
Grit

And raining threes

They muck things up creatively and relentlessly. Can Denver adapt?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 06, 2023, 06:27:33 PM
There are a lot of teams with way more picks in the draft than they would normally be excited to keep. The expanded slots for JV might make it tougher than usual, but I feel we may still have an opportunity to deal into the middle of this draft somewhere in a way the other party will feel is beneficial where we can pick up someone we can really use.

I like Cissoko, Klintman, Prosper and Brown as prospects later in the pick market who likely will not fall out of the draft.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on June 07, 2023, 12:53:59 PM
Fucking Stephen A.

I figured that clown can't get any worse.

Wrong.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: LarryB! on June 07, 2023, 03:28:57 PM
Quote from: elephant on June 07, 2023, 12:53:59 PM
Fucking Stephen A.

I figured that clown can't get any worse.

Wrong.


Yep
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on June 07, 2023, 05:18:17 PM
Screamin A is the King of The Hot Take and loves to make himself part of whatever story he is yelling about.
Title: Re: Stephen A
Post by: LarryB! on June 08, 2023, 07:13:42 AM
Quote from: chipstern on June 07, 2023, 07:47:40 PM
What did Stephen A do now?

Protecting his tax bracket
Title: Resist Overpriced Shiny Objects
Post by: chipstern on June 10, 2023, 06:34:00 PM


🤡🎱💰🎱🤡
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 11, 2023, 03:21:54 AM
Oh shit. What have you heard?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 11, 2023, 06:13:47 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 11, 2023, 03:21:54 AM
Oh shit. What have you heard?

Simply perusing the daily upchuck of maturbatory trade phantasies.

Shall we share one particularly amusing one, which would even make Facil blush?

RJ, Obi, Fournier and three #1 picks.

For Paul George.

[COUGH]
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 11, 2023, 03:19:14 PM
That would be pretty dumb. Glad it is only a fantasy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 12, 2023, 09:04:04 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 11, 2023, 03:19:14 PM
That would be pretty dumb. Glad it is only a fantasy.

They are ALL Phantasies
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 12, 2023, 03:37:56 PM
Nothing is real till it happens. Do not be too surprised if we do a thing or two and there are both arrivals and departures.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 12, 2023, 09:20:41 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 12, 2023, 03:37:56 PM
Nothing is real till it happens. Do not be too surprised if we do a thing or two and there are both arrivals and departures.

Think the Knicks might look to get a pick, late first, early second.

🎬🏀🎬
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on June 12, 2023, 11:06:25 PM
Such a great final. Jokic incredible. Miami so fucking gritty.

And how about our boy Mike Breen? Is he not at the top of his game now?

Just the best.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 12, 2023, 11:22:44 PM
Congrats to the Nuggets.

We need to get a lot better somehow.
Title: Nikola
Post by: chipstern on June 13, 2023, 06:14:59 AM
Joel Embid is a great player.

But he does not even vaguely impact winning like Jokic.

Loved the image of Jokic and his toddler daughter.  Precious.

So very very happy for Jamal Murray.  What a journey, and all he overcame to get back to such a high level.

 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 13, 2023, 05:17:11 PM
My dog just had ACL surgery Monday. It gives me cause for optimism.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: LarryB! on June 13, 2023, 06:10:32 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 13, 2023, 05:17:11 PM
My dog just had ACL surgery Monday. It gives me cause for optimism.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 14, 2023, 04:42:38 PM
She is a fussy bitch post surgery.

I wonder if we would like this,

Fournier and however many picks, one of ours protected and one of someone elses weve acquired say, for Kuzma starting at 19-20 mil for four years via sign and trade

Mitch Hartenstein Sims
Randle Obi Roby
Kuzma Hart
Barrett Grimes Rose
Brunson Quickley McBride

A follow on would be freeing Rose and adding either KBD or Trey Lyles with the MLE

Mitch Hartenstein Obi
Randle Obi Roby
Kuzma Hart KBD
Barrett Grimes
Brunson Quickley McBride

And there is still room to add a wild card if one presents itself.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 14, 2023, 04:54:30 PM
There is no one I am even vaguely annoyed about getting a chip on this Nuggets team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: LarryB! on June 14, 2023, 07:00:55 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 14, 2023, 04:42:38 PM
She is a fussy bitch post surgery.

I wonder if we would like this,

Fournier and however many picks, one of ours protected and one of someone elses weve acquired say, for Kuzma starting at 19-20 mil for four years via sign and trade

Mitch Hartenstein Sims
Randle Obi Roby
Kuzma Hart
Barrett Grimes Rose
Brunson Quickley McBride

A follow on would be freeing Rose and adding either KBD or Trey Lyles with the MLE

Mitch Hartenstein Obi
Randle Obi Roby
Kuzma Hart KBD
Barrett Grimes
Brunson Quickley McBride

And there is still room to add a wild card if one presents itself.

The Twitter verse is buzzing about Zion Willamson being tight with IQ and Barrett.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 14, 2023, 08:16:12 PM
Hard pass on Zion.
Title: Shiny Objects
Post by: chipstern on June 14, 2023, 08:39:04 PM
Fuck Zion

Maybe we can reup Joakim Noah and Jerome James to keep him.company on The Injured Reserve, and maybe Zion will reciprocate by sharing some of the hoes he's been boning in lieu of actually losing weight and getting in shape.

Maybe we can add to our injured reserves by making a run at perennial gimps Bradley Beal and Zach Lavine.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: LarryB! on June 14, 2023, 09:21:23 PM
I am not a Zion fan but a Zion who sheds 40-50 pounds and stays on the floor longer and I could root for that guy.

But that guy has the self discipline of Chris Christie so fuck the above scenario.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 14, 2023, 11:16:42 PM
Quote from: LarryB! on June 14, 2023, 09:21:23 PM
I am not a Zion fan but a Zion who sheds 40-50 pounds and stays on the floor longer and I could root for that guy.

But that guy has the self discipline of Chris Christie so fuck the above scenario.

Has NO Momba in him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: LarryB! on June 15, 2023, 04:06:30 PM
Quote from: chipstern on June 14, 2023, 11:16:42 PM
Quote from: LarryB! on June 14, 2023, 09:21:23 PM
I am not a Zion fan but a Zion who sheds 40-50 pounds and stays on the floor longer and I could root for that guy.

But that guy has the self discipline of Chris Christie so fuck the above scenario.

Has NO Momba in him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on June 19, 2023, 12:15:20 PM
Impossible to predict what going to happen with the Knicks.

But I've got my preferences!

As I've said many a time, Randle and RJ should not be on the same team. I'm hoping the breakup happens this summer.

And I remain bullish on Grimes. I would not let that man go.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 19, 2023, 02:08:46 PM
Quote from: elephant on June 19, 2023, 12:15:20 PM
Impossible to predict what going to happen with the Knicks.

But I've got my preferences!

As I've said many a time, Randle and RJ should not be on the same team. I'm hoping the breakup happens this summer.

And I remain bullish on Grimes. I would not let that man go.

So, would sign off on a deal involving Julius and Zion?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 19, 2023, 03:27:33 PM
Quote from: chipstern on June 19, 2023, 02:08:46 PM
Quote from: elephant on June 19, 2023, 12:15:20 PM
Impossible to predict what going to happen with the Knicks.

But I've got my preferences!

As I've said many a time, Randle and RJ should not be on the same team. I'm hoping the breakup happens this summer.

And I remain bullish on Grimes. I would not let that man go.

So, would sign off on a deal involving Julius and Zion?

I would not.  A world of talent.  A septic tank of character and commitment.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 19, 2023, 06:36:03 PM
http://youtu.be/FRpn4kR8fw8 (http://youtu.be/FRpn4kR8fw8)

I will ride with Jules.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 19, 2023, 07:26:56 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 19, 2023, 06:36:03 PM
http://youtu.be/FRpn4kR8fw8 (http://youtu.be/FRpn4kR8fw8)

I will ride with Jules.

Poop Scoops

Julius
IQ
Two First Rounders

For Zion

Hell of a roll of the dice.

A generational talent when healthy.

When healthy, would aid and abet Knicks getting out in transition.

WHEN HEALTHY.

As such, as per Elephant, a better fit for RJ.

STILL.

I may be the last Julius fan standing.  He is a family man, a worker be, a team player, a high character if moody guy.

Zion's lack of commitment to his.physical edifice, his obsession with hoes and how he blew off his team?

Me no likey.

Still, I can feel the drumbeat.

I also have a feeling Naz Reid may be on our radar. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on June 19, 2023, 08:31:24 PM
Quote from: chipstern on June 19, 2023, 02:08:46 PM
Quote from: elephant on June 19, 2023, 12:15:20 PM
Impossible to predict what going to happen with the Knicks.

But I've got my preferences!

As I've said many a time, Randle and RJ should not be on the same team. I'm hoping the breakup happens this summer.

And I remain bullish on Grimes. I would not let that man go.

So, would sign off on a deal involving Julius and Zion?

Naw
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on June 19, 2023, 08:37:13 PM
Quote from: chipstern on June 19, 2023, 07:26:56 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 19, 2023, 06:36:03 PM
http://youtu.be/FRpn4kR8fw8 (http://youtu.be/FRpn4kR8fw8)

I will ride with Jules.

Poop Scoops

Julius
IQ
Two First Rounders

For Zion

Hell of a roll of the dice.

A generational talent when healthy.

When healthy, would aid and abet Knicks getting out in transition.


And this strikes me as ridiculous.

That's an easy no.


Title: King Julius
Post by: carlos123 on June 20, 2023, 12:08:39 AM
Quote from: Chip on June 19, 2023, 07:26:56 PM

I may be the last Julius fan standing.

NO, YOU ARE NOT!!!

PS. Fuk Zion.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 20, 2023, 02:11:18 AM
Remember Cleanthony Early, now playing in Lebanon and more than likely eating well as a result.

Zion would wander into Elmhurst or Queensbridge never to be seen again. Big as he is, he would just get swallowed up.

For his sake, pass.

Naz is interesting.

Trade Jules to Charlotte for Gordy and number 27 and a future first top 5 protected. Sign Naz to as much as we can pay him with a bigger deal implied as soon as we can. Play Naz as our starting PF

Mitch Hartenstein Sims
Naz Obi Roby
RJ Gordy Fournier
Grimes Hart Rose
Brunson IQ McBride

I like Julius, but I might like that team better.


Mitch
Title: ?
Post by: chipstern on June 20, 2023, 02:37:19 AM
What is your fucking obsession.with Gordon Hayward.

He is an empty suit.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 20, 2023, 04:02:43 AM
"But it's an ending contract."

Uh huh, trading our second best player for the second coming of Evan Fournier. 

Undermining our talent and hard earned chemistry for a slug who has been on injured reserve more than on the court for 4 years.

Bailing out Charlotte with a franchise talent in place of a cap space anchor around their neck.

You wanted to get a rise our of me?

Mission fucking accomplished.
Title: Games Missed Over Last 4 Years
Post by: chipstern on June 20, 2023, 01:49:54 PM
GH

133

JR

44

Your trade is commensurate with the Beal Dump, upend hard earned 22-23 chemistry and empower an Eastern Rival.for no good reason.

Draft picks?

We have draft picks and no roster spots.

Keep Fournier and Rose?  Hello.  Now add Hayward?

Whose minutes does Hayward take?

Hart?  RJ?  Grimes?

Sounds like a plan.

Last words.

Peace, dude.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 21, 2023, 08:57:24 PM
I might like Roby better anyway in terms of team needs and he is already here.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 22, 2023, 01:59:32 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 21, 2023, 08:57:24 PM
I might like Roby better anyway in terms of team needs and he is already here.

He is tasked with being a role player.

Obi, projected as a lead pony.
Title: Trader Vics
Post by: chipstern on June 22, 2023, 02:01:43 AM
You keeping up with all the wild deals

The NBA has gone.completely Facil.

🤪🚫🤪

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on June 22, 2023, 12:40:08 PM
Wild deals indeed.

I suspect we don't stand pat with so much talent flying about.

I divide rumors into ones about players I like and players I don't like.

Are they players who could contribute to a championship team?

The latest rumor is about Paul George. I like Paul George.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on June 22, 2023, 01:42:07 PM
Would I want to give up the store for a 33-year old oft-injured player?

No. But I'd give up some significant stuff, he's really good, and his game should age decently if his legs work.

And we should be clear about what the "store" is and not overvalue our players and picks nor get our panties in a bunch when we give some up.

Run it back? Well if running it back means watching tired players some with feeble minds and broken psyches grind out minutes on bad legs in a reductive system while Obi stands in the corner and forgotten shooters stay locked to the bench, zero interest.

If it means getting creative with our talent in ways we haven't seen yet, ok.
Title: [Nobody] Beats The Wiz
Post by: chipstern on June 22, 2023, 05:39:46 PM
If Washington reups Kyle Kuzma?

Gafford, Kuzma, Avdija, Poole, Jones
has the makings of a decent starting five.  A good backcourt.

Bench?  Kispert. Barton, Gallinari, Davis, Morris, Wright.

So those decrying the state of the protected #1 they owe us.  All hope is not lost, just delayed.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 22, 2023, 08:03:47 PM
Who is their coach again?

We shall see.

I hope we score some cheap talent on the back end tonight or make a highly beneficial deal or do nothing.

There is a whole lot of smoke in the air and actual pieces landing with a bang in unexpected spots. It is a nice fanfare to draft night.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 22, 2023, 10:35:19 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 22, 2023, 08:03:47 PM
Who is their coach again?

We shall see.

I hope we score some cheap talent on the back end tonight or make a highly beneficial deal or do nothing.

There is a whole lot of smoke in the air and actual pieces landing with a bang in unexpected spots. It is a nice fanfare to draft night.

DO
NO
HARM

🙏🦋🙏
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 23, 2023, 03:26:02 AM
No harm. Quiet night.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 23, 2023, 10:11:21 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 23, 2023, 03:26:02 AM
No harm. Quiet night.

Ironic.

Scuttlebutt about shopping Obi, and Knicks sign his kid brother to a two way deal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on June 23, 2023, 11:26:09 AM
Such a shame looks like it was a very good draft.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 23, 2023, 01:42:27 PM
Quote from: chipstern on June 23, 2023, 10:11:21 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 23, 2023, 03:26:02 AM
No harm. Quiet night.

Ironic.

Scuttlebutt about shopping Obi, and Knicks sign his kid brother to a two way deal.

Can never have enough Toppins.

http://theknickswall.com/knicks-sign-jacob-toppin-jaylen-martin-to-draft-night-deals/ (http://theknickswall.com/knicks-sign-jacob-toppin-jaylen-martin-to-draft-night-deals/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 23, 2023, 05:00:29 PM
Quote from: luee on June 23, 2023, 11:26:09 AM
Such a shame looks like it was a very good draft.

Our draft pick was basically Josh Hart

I'm cool wit dat.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 23, 2023, 05:02:56 PM
Quote from: chipstern on June 23, 2023, 05:00:29 PM
Quote from: luee on June 23, 2023, 11:26:09 AM
Such a shame looks like it was a very good draft.

Our draft pick was basically Josh Hart

I'm cool wit dat.

Robinson, Randle, Barrett, Grimes, Brunson

Hartenstein, Toppin, Hart, IQ

That's NINE, the Sacred Thibs Rotation Limit

Where do we slot in a rookie?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on June 23, 2023, 06:11:56 PM
not a problem you worry about ... in any case, 9 NBA players appeared in 82 games this past season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 23, 2023, 06:46:27 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on June 23, 2023, 06:11:56 PM
not a problem you worry about ... in any case, 9 NBA players appeared in 82 games this past season.

Our draft pick netted us Josh Hart

What me worry?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on June 24, 2023, 01:00:26 AM
Quote from: chipstern on June 23, 2023, 05:02:56 PM

Robinson, Randle, Barrett, Grimes, Brunson

Hartenstein, Toppin, Hart, IQ

That's NINE, the Sacred Thibs Rotation Limit

Where do we slot in a rookie?

You really think we're going to stand pat?

That Randle and Barrett AND Obi will be there next season just like the last?

I can't see it.
Title: Rose Option
Post by: chipstern on June 24, 2023, 03:38:02 PM
Knicks did not pick up Rose option.

Popular conjecture has him coming back on friendlier contract allowing up to use the 12 million exception.

I think he moves on.

Do we pursue DiVicenzo option?

A  NOVA teammate of Josh and Jalen who can play D and drain the three.  An IQ & DD second unit?  Might Thibs go 10 deep?  Might we see some Randle/Toppin PF/C?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 24, 2023, 08:37:05 PM
I hope we just opened the slot for KBD.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 24, 2023, 10:37:55 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 24, 2023, 08:37:05 PM
I hope we just opened the slot for KBD.

Who is KBD?

Not related to Gordon Hayward I trust. 

🎱🎶🎱

Oh, Diop.

Would be a nice roll player.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on June 25, 2023, 01:38:47 PM
Knix should be looking for back-up point who can shoot. Up there in bounds and inside scoring not so good at shooting. If Brunson goes down Knix are in big trouble.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on June 25, 2023, 01:51:54 PM
checking this out, Gabe Vincent is the man for play-offs.

https://hoopshype.com/lists/2023-nba-free-agent-top-point-guards/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 25, 2023, 04:32:22 PM
Quote from: luee on June 25, 2023, 01:38:47 PM
Knix should be looking for back-up point who can shoot. Up there in bounds and inside scoring not so good at shooting. If Brunson goes down Knix are in big trouble.

Quickley
Title: Obi
Post by: carlos123 on June 26, 2023, 12:39:31 AM
Is there any truth to the rumor that the Knicks are shopping him around?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 27, 2023, 10:17:12 PM
I am sure a few guys are getting shopped around. It is that time of year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 28, 2023, 03:57:59 PM
We picked up the option on McBride.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 29, 2023, 01:01:03 PM
T Prince and Ty Jerome are FAs now. OG Ananoby changed his rep to CAA.

Let us not burn our powder on the highly redundant Dante DiVincenzo please.
Title: Hey Fac,
Post by: carlos123 on June 29, 2023, 05:11:05 PM
Who is AM? Thanks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 29, 2023, 06:32:58 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 29, 2023, 01:01:03 PM
T Prince and Ty Jerome are FAs now. OG Ananoby changed his rep to CAA.

Let us not burn our powder on the highly redundant Dante DiVincenzo please.

No law says Thlbs can't go 10 deep

Robinson, Randle, RJ, Grimes, Brunson

Hartenstein, Obi, Hart, DiVincenzo, IQ

McBride, Roby, Sims

XXXXX: 2-Ways
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 29, 2023, 06:34:06 PM
Shams Charania: New York Knicks G/F Josh Hart has opted into his $12.9 million contract to return for the 2023-24 season, sources tell @TheAthletic @Stadium.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 29, 2023, 06:34:46 PM
Know what this means?

Yet another example of Leon Rose collaborating with his players to get the fair contracts, and maintain cap space and roster flex.

Hart can be extended in August for Fournier Money.

Under this arrangement, Knicks get to deploy the $12 million mid level.

This arrangement would strongly suggest a handshake to get Hart his money And...

AND

To ink DiVincenzo.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 29, 2023, 06:50:47 PM
Ian Begley: By exercising his $13M option for 2023-24, Josh Hart gave the Knicks more financial flexibility if they choose to sign a player
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 29, 2023, 06:55:38 PM
Please no Dante especially now we know we are not losing Hart.

We have 3 guys who all need to play and all defend SG and smaller SF in RJ, Grimes and Hart. DD would be fourth without being clearly better than anyone we have already got.

Prince
Craig
Lyles
KBD
And any other guys north of 6-7 and 220 who can guard that I have not mentioned. We only have two forwards who are among the two worst defenders on the team. That is where the money needs to go.

We are all stocked up on ball handlers, wing guard guard wings and centers.

If a trade rebalances us, the math might allow it. As things stand I would look elsewhere despite the Nova core connection.

AM is Amanda Marcote who writes for Salon. The quote is in this piece,Los.

http://www.salon.com/2023/06/29/gops-lackluster-frontrunner-seems-awfully-low-energy-lately/ (http://www.salon.com/2023/06/29/gops-lackluster-frontrunner-seems-awfully-low-energy-lately/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 29, 2023, 07:02:51 PM
We are at 14 players and about 137 million dollars committed at the moment.

Mitch Hartenstein Sims
Randle Toppin Roby
Barrett Hart Jefferies
Grimes Fournier
Brunson Quickley McBride
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 29, 2023, 07:12:48 PM
Ok. If you want Dante, do something like this first,

RJ and Evan and probably a couple of picks for Pascal Siakam

Mitch Hartenstein Sims
Randle Obi Roby
Siakam Hart Jefferies
Grimes Dante 
Brunson Quickley McBride

I could roll with that. It aint my money.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 29, 2023, 10:17:20 PM
Darius Bazely got waived by the suns. He is long and has some game.
Title: Amanda Marcotte
Post by: carlos123 on June 30, 2023, 12:36:46 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on June 29, 2023, 06:55:38 PM

AM is Amanda Marcote who writes for Salon. The quote is in this piece,Los.

http://www.salon.com/2023/06/29/gops-lackluster-frontrunner-seems-awfully-low-energy-lately/ (http://www.salon.com/2023/06/29/gops-lackluster-frontrunner-seems-awfully-low-energy-lately/)

Thanks Fac. Great article, and the idea of low-energy-Trumptin is very funny and very true.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on June 30, 2023, 09:32:39 AM
Scouting for knix has improved. Not like the bad old days when they would throw big bucks at bench warmers.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on June 30, 2023, 04:11:53 PM
We've got to make moves.

I'd hate to lose IQ or Grimes, but of course it's possible.

Losing IQ would hurt, because the guy has improved every season. You can see the work he puts in. He's smart and adaptable.
Losing Grimes would hurt, because I think the motherfucker is a talent, and first in line to have a breakout year.

But, yeah, I'm cool with losing Obi or RJ.

Losing Obi would hurt, because he's so fucking fun to watch. And great energy. But if we can't play him properly, I'd prefer to see him blossom on another team.

Losing RJ will not hurt IMHO. He's a nice ballplayer and a good guy, but a terrible tandem with Randle. Moreover as can be seen in his pro career, he's consistently awful in the clutch. We can do better.

Maybe saying they're a "terrible tandem" is an overstatement. They have obviously worked together to win games. But if the team wants to get to a higher level? I think they've gone as far together as they could.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 30, 2023, 04:44:46 PM
Hopefully we are not looking to lose guys but to upgrade more than we downgrade in any of our moves.

I think the team is being built with the expectation to exceed the tax in the season after this one, but could possibly accept going there now for a clear upgrade in talent.

The trick will be not to double down on things we already do well, but to address one or another of the serious holes we still have.
Title: Be Careful What You Wish For
Post by: chipstern on June 30, 2023, 05:34:46 PM
Losing RJ will not hurt IMHO. He's a nice ballplayer and a good guy, but a terrible tandem with Randle. Moreover as can be seen in his pro career, he's consistently awful in the clutch. We can do better.

We've GOT to make moves?

COUGH

Title: Re: Be Careful What You Wish For
Post by: elephant on June 30, 2023, 09:14:16 PM
Quote from: chipstern on June 30, 2023, 05:34:46 PM
Losing RJ will not hurt IMHO. He's a nice ballplayer and a good guy, but a terrible tandem with Randle. Moreover as can be seen in his pro career, he's consistently awful in the clutch. We can do better.

We've GOT to make moves?

COUGH

You're saying we're built just fine to go deep into the playoffs?

Keep the same starting unit, the same coach, just tweak things around the edges?

Good luck with that!

Even with Brunson, our ceiling seems apparent.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on June 30, 2023, 09:16:07 PM
Interesting to compare Van Fleet getting 130 million over 3 to Kuzma's 102 over 4.

Much larger gap than I would have figured.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 30, 2023, 09:59:52 PM
Quote from: elephant on June 30, 2023, 09:16:07 PM
Interesting to compare Van Fleet getting 130 million over 3 to Kuzma's 102 over 4.

Much larger gap than I would have figured.
Quote from: elephant on June 30, 2023, 09:16:07 PM
Interesting to compare Van Fleet getting 130 million over 3 to Kuzma's 102 over 4.

Much larger gap than I would have figured.

And Brunson 4 x 104
Title: Re: Be Careful What You Wish For
Post by: chipstern on June 30, 2023, 10:00:43 PM
Quote from: elephant on June 30, 2023, 09:14:16 PM
Quote from: chipstern on June 30, 2023, 05:34:46 PM
Losing RJ will not hurt IMHO. He's a nice ballplayer and a good guy, but a terrible tandem with Randle. Moreover as can be seen in his pro career, he's consistently awful in the clutch. We can do better.

We've GOT to make moves?

COUGH

You're saying we're built just fine to go deep into the playoffs?

Keep the same starting unit, the same coach, just tweak things around the edges?

Good luck with that!

Even with Brunson, our ceiling seems apparent.

Better a ceiling than a basement floor
Title: Cam Reddish
Post by: chipstern on June 30, 2023, 10:02:27 PM
A Laker.

So is Gabe Vincent.

Schroeder a Raptor
Title: Elephant Gun
Post by: chipstern on June 30, 2023, 10:04:53 PM
Are we really writing off RJ as a bum?

Seem to recall him lighting things up in the playoffs...

Perhaps it's that drink Aaron Rodgers gave me.
Title: Re: Elephant Gun
Post by: elephant on June 30, 2023, 10:20:51 PM
Quote from: chipstern on June 30, 2023, 10:04:53 PM
Are we really writing off RJ as a bum?

Seem to recall him lighting things up in the playoffs...

Perhaps it's that drink Aaron Rodgers gave me.

This shit again.

I never called him a bum. He has lot of strengths. But he shoots too much; plays well when it doesn't matter and poorly when it does; and his best moments typically come against weaker opponents.

Not a great rebounder or defender. Not the kind of guy whose play leads to wins.

He can still play a good role on a good team. Just not this one. At least not with Randle on the floor at the same time.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 30, 2023, 10:58:25 PM
Quote from: elephant on June 30, 2023, 09:16:07 PM
Interesting to compare Van Fleet getting 130 million over 3 to Kuzma's 102 over 4.

Much larger gap than I would have figured.

I am scratching my head over Cam Johnson getting 108 compared to 102 for Kuz.

Fred is getting paid to adult as well as play, to make men out of the boys. That gets him a premium and the Rockets had space to burn.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 30, 2023, 11:04:29 PM
We should get improvements from cohesion after a deepish playoff run understanding each other and the tests involved.

I think Roby can seriously help with our biggest weakness, checking bigger badasses, and being able to plan with Hart on board from day one.

I am waiting for DiVincenzo to find a home out west, maybe in Texas.

Rose to Memphis. I do not mind that.
Title: Re: Elephant Gun
Post by: LarryB! on July 01, 2023, 07:54:03 AM
Quote from: elephant on June 30, 2023, 10:20:51 PM
Quote from: chipstern on June 30, 2023, 10:04:53 PM
Are we really writing off RJ as a bum?

Seem to recall him lighting things up in the playoffs...

Perhaps it's that drink Aaron Rodgers gave me.

This shit again.

I never called him a bum. He has lot of strengths. But he shoots too much; plays well when it doesn't matter and poorly when it does; and his best moments typically come against weaker opponents.

Not a great rebounder or defender. Not the kind of guy whose play leads to wins.

He can still play a good role on a good team. Just not this one. At least not with Randle on the floor at the same time.

RJ will not be a role player on another team.
Barrett has the goods to be a helluva scorer.
Do not sell the kid short
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: LarryB! on July 01, 2023, 03:35:04 PM
So long, Obi!

Traded to Indy for two 2nd round picks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 01, 2023, 05:12:33 PM
Walker the rook is better than Randle. Obi will struggle to get the minutes he got here. Careful what you wish for.

Step on up Isiah Roby.

Lets get another guy who can guard threes and fours.

If this is for Dante and we do nothing else I will be disgusted.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on July 01, 2023, 05:35:36 PM
A total fail** with Toppin from draft day to departure.

All this talk of save your assets. From draft choices that don't convey to draft picks who you don't develop, use you assets I say, before they devalue to crap, use them to grab blue chip talent.

Ah well, at least Obi is FREE.


*** well, unless those two 2nds are part of the package Portland wants for Dame, I'd add in two or three firsts without blinking or thinking
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 01, 2023, 09:00:10 PM
Donte for four years. Fuck
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 01, 2023, 10:13:50 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 01, 2023, 09:00:10 PM
Donte for four years. Fuck

Get over it.

Concentrate on Roby.

Ommmmmm
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: LarryB! on July 01, 2023, 10:40:47 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 01, 2023, 09:00:10 PM
Donte for four years. Fuck

Consider the intangibles. Knicks got the Villanova band together and hopefully they will swing.
Title: Facil
Post by: chipstern on July 01, 2023, 10:46:05 PM
Donte

Or

Hayward

What if?

🌼📸🌼
Title: What a shame!
Post by: carlos123 on July 01, 2023, 11:45:54 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on June 26, 2023, 12:39:31 AM
Is there any truth to the rumor that the Knicks are shopping him around?

Quote from: LarryB! on July 01, 2023, 03:35:04 PM
So long, Obi!

Traded to Indy for two 2nd round picks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 01, 2023, 11:53:13 PM
Quote from: LarryB! on July 01, 2023, 10:40:47 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 01, 2023, 09:00:10 PM
Donte for four years. Fuck

Consider the intangibles. Knicks got the Villanova band together and hopefully they will swing.

Or form a clique.

Still

Mitch Hartenstein
Randle Roby
RJ Hart
Grimes Donte
Brunson Quickley

I do not love it but I did not love the lineup last year either.

At least we do not have to rediscover how much better we are when Evan does not play.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 02, 2023, 12:06:02 AM
Eugene Omoruyi played in Detroit last year. He would be a good guy to pick up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on July 02, 2023, 12:43:41 PM
Can someone explain the Obi deal?

I've said I was happier if he plays somewhere else then languishes here. But I figured his trade would yield something of real value.

Two future second round picks? They couldn't figure out something better than that?

Lester calls the Obi era with the Knicks a "total fail."

I can only quibble with the word "total."
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 02, 2023, 12:50:35 PM
He is getting paid 6 mil to do a job a bunch of guys on vet minimums or just a bit more do better.

We should have passed on him in the draft. At least we did not send picks out to get rid of him as we were doing last year with folks.

We needed to open salary room for our fifth SG.
Title: 10 Tall Men
Post by: chipstern on July 02, 2023, 01:27:03 PM
Mitch Hartenstein
Randle Roby
RJ Hart
Grimes Donte
Brunson Quickley
Title: Re: 10 Tall Men
Post by: chipstern on July 02, 2023, 04:04:16 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 02, 2023, 01:27:03 PM
Mitch Hartenstein
Randle Roby
RJ Hart
Grimes Donte
Brunson Quickley

McBride
Sims

That's 12

Who are 13, 14, 15

Presumably Fournier.is dealt.

Someone on line floated the notion of Fournier to San Antonio for Doug McDermott.

Title: Re: 10 Tall Men
Post by: chipstern on July 02, 2023, 04:31:10 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 02, 2023, 04:04:16 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 02, 2023, 01:27:03 PM
Mitch Hartenstein
Randle Roby
RJ Hart
Grimes Donte
Brunson Quickley

McBride
Sims

That's 12

Who are 13, 14, 15

Presumably Fournier.is dealt.

Someone on line floated the notion of Fournier to San Antonio for Doug McDermott.

Conceivably, Fournier offers some French home cooking for The Eiffel Tower.

McDermott is listed as 6'8" and is one of the premier three point shooters.

Could conceivably give coverage at the 3 & 4. 

Probably would have to sweeten the deal with some draft capital.

Then, of course, Thibs would have to open up his rotation.

The odds of that?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 02, 2023, 05:17:56 PM
We have all the guards of every stripe you could ever want. We have a triumvirate of rim protecting bigs. We are thin at forward.

Dougie has gotten into and stayed in shape since he left the Knicks and this has made him a more effective player in every way. If Evan was in Dougie shape he would never have left the rotation.

I still do not think a reunion is likely. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 02, 2023, 05:26:57 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 02, 2023, 05:17:56 PM
We have all the guards of every stripe you could ever want. We have a triumvirate of rim protecting bigs. We are thin at forward.

Dougie has gotten into and stayed in shape since he left the Knicks and this has made him a more effective player in every way. If Evan was in Dougie shape he would never have left the rotation.

I still do not think a reunion is likely.

Agree it is a long shot

McDermott has raised his game as a defender.

I never perceived Fournier to be less than professional. Or out of shape.

His problem was in impacting the game as something other than a shooter.

Leon accommodated Obi for not being petulant and airing his frustrations.

I would expect likewise regarding the team's approach to Evan.

PS: Lonnie Walker to the Nets.  Eric Gordon to Phoenix.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 02, 2023, 07:39:55 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 02, 2023, 05:26:57 PM

McDermott has raised his game as a defender.

I never perceived Fournier to be less than professional. Or out of shape.

His problem was in impacting the game as something other than a shooter.

Leon accommodated Obi for not being petulant and airing his frustrations.

I would expect likewise regarding the team's approach to Evan.

PS: Lonnie Walker to the Nets.  Eric Gordon to Phoenix.

That was McDermotts problem till Indy. He got stronger, faster and more energetic. It helped his D, fifty-fifty balls, scoring off cuts and on the break. He had all the problems Evan has but he addressed them and that is why he gets minutes in rotations.

The Walker and Gordon deals put our signing in perspective in this market. Hard to say Donte is three or four times as good as either of those guys.
Title: Three Or Four Times Better?
Post by: chipstern on July 02, 2023, 08:43:41 PM
Not so hard to gauge.

Impact DD & LW had on Warriors and Lakers may be readily gauged.

Gordon is 33 and better suited to a veteran squad.

DD's all around game and chemistry with Jalen and Josh speaks to a fundamental level of chemistry.

WINNING Chemistry.

We disagree on DD.

Remember how so many Knicks fans were having hissy fits over the signing of Jalen and the trade for Josh.  Jalen was wildly overpaid.  Between the Knox-Cam deal and the Portland trade, Josh cost us two #1 picks.  Outrageous. 

Walker and Gordon are solid citizens.

Donnie is more in tune with Knicks chemistry and eiolving culture.

Three or four times better?

How about...

Better FIT
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 02, 2023, 09:56:43 PM
We will never know about the comparative fit.

They seem pretty comparable in ability, output and defensive redundancy on our Knicks.

None are checking Tatum, Butler, Bridges, Brown, OG, Siakam, Cade or any guys like that. None of the three recent signees mentioned are making those guys sweat on the other end either.

On to the next.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 02, 2023, 11:03:37 PM
Dario Saric, JaMychal Green and after that the FA well is dry.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 03, 2023, 03:32:57 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 02, 2023, 11:03:37 PM
Dario Saric, JaMychal Green and after that the FA well is dry.

Next men up:

Isaiah Roby and DeQuan Jeffries on smmer league squad.

Toppin 2.0.has an injury

No Jokubaitis.

We shall see. Eh?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 03, 2023, 03:46:23 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 02, 2023, 11:03:37 PM
Dario Saric, JaMychal Green and after that the FA well is dry.

The 33 year old Green is now a Warrior.

Saric still out there.  Who would he bump?  Sims?  Roby?  You were pretty enthusiastic about the Roby.move when we made it this.past spring.

Saric pre injury.was an effective stretch 4. 

Oh well.  There's still Gordon Hayward
Title: Six Foot Five
Post by: chipstern on July 03, 2023, 04:11:16 PM
This just in.

Knicks 2-Way Contract forward Jaylen Martin is 6'6"

6'2"

Jalen
Deuce

6'3"

IQ

6'4"

Donte

6'5"

Grimes
Hart

6'6"

RJ

I detect a trend.
Title: Re: Six Foot Five
Post by: chipstern on July 03, 2023, 06:58:19 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 03, 2023, 04:11:16 PM
This just in.

Knicks 2-Way Contract forward Jaylen Martin is 6'6"

6'2"

Jalen
Deuce

6'3"

IQ

6'4"

Donte

6'5"

Grimes
Hart

6'6"

RJ

I detect a trend.

I smell a trade.

Work your magic, Facil

PS: You are proscribed from including Julius.

PPS: You are proscribed from trading for Gordon Hayward

PPPS: Elephant, this one is for you.  RJ & IQ for OG Abunoby.  Or sub out draft capital for IQ.

AS YOU WERE, Trader Vics of The Knicks. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 04, 2023, 02:11:36 AM
Aw.

I was going to send Jules and IQ out for Jovic and Lowry.

Nova Core, bitches.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 04, 2023, 06:55:51 PM
New plan. Lets sign Bol Bol. He just got waived by the Magic.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 04, 2023, 11:30:36 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 04, 2023, 06:55:51 PM
New plan. Lets sign Bol Bol. He just got waived by the Magic.

🌩🎶🌩

I'm ALL.in
Title: Grant Williams
Post by: chipstern on July 05, 2023, 12:11:29 AM
Seems to be in play.

Us?
Title: Waiting For The Other Shoe To Drop
Post by: chipstern on July 05, 2023, 06:12:11 PM
Either Bol or Williams would be a great addition, giving us coverage at the 5/4 or 4/3.

We have a trade exception and second rounders from the Toppin trade, as well as the second lower mid-level.

Boston wants a #1 to facilitate a Williams sign and trade. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 05, 2023, 07:04:43 PM
Trade exception means we can get into the waiver market. None of this stuff is official till tomorrow.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 05, 2023, 08:07:48 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 05, 2023, 07:04:43 PM
Trade exception means we can get into the waiver market. None of this stuff is official till tomorrow.

Williams to Dallas, 4 x $53
Bullock to Spurs
Multiple #2s all around.

Would love Bol Bol but I suspect.he is not on Knicks' radar.
Title: 2024 #1 Dallas Pick
Post by: chipstern on July 05, 2023, 08:21:55 PM
Kyrie
Lively
Williams
Thybulle
Holmes

Lots of good additions.

Better D

We'll see that #1 next spring.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 06, 2023, 01:24:08 AM
Blazers may match for Thybulle. It
Title: Knicks Roster
Post by: chipstern on July 06, 2023, 01:47:34 AM
I do believe that what we see is what we're going to get.

All we have to offer free agents is the vets minimum.

Hell, I'd be surprised if we even make a deal to divest ourselves of Fournier
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 06, 2023, 02:05:22 AM
We can pick up any waived player at his old salary up to the 6.5 mil we paid Obi. Also we may still jump into a trade.

If not, thats cool too.

Evan is our third string PF.

Mitch Hartenstein Sims
Randle Roby Fournier
RJ Hart Jefferies
Grimes DiVincenzo
Brunson IQ McBride

I could see Thibs playing ten at least up until the break.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 06, 2023, 01:42:32 PM
Portland did match the Thybulle sheet. No soup for Dallas and they lost Bullock getting Williams. Omax Prosper is going to save our pick for us as he soaks up minutes at defensive wing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 06, 2023, 05:43:39 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 06, 2023, 02:05:22 AM
We can pick up any waived player at his old salary up to the 6.5 mil we paid Obi. Also we may still jump into a trade.

If not, thats cool too.

Evan is our third string PF.

Mitch Hartenstein Sims
Randle Roby Fournier
RJ Hart Jefferies
Grimes DiVincenzo
Brunson IQ McBride

I could see Thibs playing ten at least up until the break.

Fournier a PF?

That's rich. 
Title: Re: Six Foot Five
Post by: elephant on July 06, 2023, 07:00:43 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 03, 2023, 06:58:19 PM

PPPS: Elephant, this one is for you.  RJ & IQ for OG Abunoby.  Or sub out draft capital for IQ.


Yes. I'll take it.

It's painful. Cause IQ gives so much. And he constantly improves his game.

And how can you not love the guy.

But if that's the best route out of the Thibs/Randle/RJ machine, I'll take it.
Title: Re: Six Foot Five
Post by: chipstern on July 06, 2023, 09:37:45 PM
Quote from: elephant on July 06, 2023, 07:00:43 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 03, 2023, 06:58:19 PM

PPPS: Elephant, this one is for you.  RJ & IQ for OG Abunoby.  Or sub out draft capital for IQ.


Yes. I'll take it.

It's painful. Cause IQ gives so much. And he constantly improves his game.

And how can you not love the guy.

But if that's the best route out of the Thibs/Randle/RJ machine, I'll take it.

Ain't happening.

Knicks cherish RJ.  😍
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on July 06, 2023, 10:21:17 PM
We'll see.
Title: Bol Bol
Post by: chipstern on July 07, 2023, 06:33:04 PM
Has cleared waivers.

Have a sinking feeling he ends up in Miami or Phoenix.
Title: Scoot
Post by: chipstern on July 07, 2023, 07:59:35 PM
Wow

Reminds me of Brunson
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 07, 2023, 10:06:13 PM
Scoot and Amen broken in the same game. Both looked very good before their exits.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 08, 2023, 06:06:48 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 07, 2023, 10:06:13 PM
Scoot and Amen broken in the same game. Both looked very good before their exits.

One of your phantasy trade targets excelled.

Tori Eason.  Impressive.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 08, 2023, 01:56:19 PM
Did you like the way he passed Smith open for the game winner?

Len Miller looked awesome for the Wolves. I would rather have him than Towns at this point.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 08, 2023, 09:41:35 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 08, 2023, 01:56:19 PM
Did you like the way he passed Smith open for the game winner?

Len Miller looked awesome for the Wolves. I would rather have him than Towns at this point.

Tori... AWESOME

Jeffries showed me something today for the Knicks.

And our other two way and that Ukranian big
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 09, 2023, 03:46:25 PM
Tari. Tori is nepo 90210
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 09, 2023, 03:52:28 PM
The WeeKnicks should be alright. Lets definitely develop the big guy. Martin and Brown are fun too.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 09, 2023, 07:39:09 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 09, 2023, 03:52:28 PM
The WeeKnicks should be alright. Lets definitely develop the big guy. Martin and Brown are fun too.

Roby looks serviceable for 15 minutes a night at PF.
Title: Houston
Post by: chipstern on July 09, 2023, 07:54:37 PM
Rockets have some serious talent.

Teams that passed on Whitmore are going to live to regret it.

Jabari Smith blossoming.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 09, 2023, 08:40:20 PM
Maybe we can work a deal for Eason. I hope he gets squeezed out.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 10, 2023, 10:56:36 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 09, 2023, 08:40:20 PM
Maybe we can work a deal for Eason. I hope he gets squeezed out.

Jabari, Brooks, Eason, Cam. Green

Nice core of big athletic threes and fours.

Dream on.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 10, 2023, 03:16:44 PM
You forgot Tate and I expect Amen Thompson will play mainly at wing this year.

Log jam. Keep hope alive
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 10, 2023, 08:49:15 PM
There are still some ready bigs and big wings out there. JaMychal Green or failing that Stanley Johnson have appeal.
Title: FAs
Post by: chipstern on July 11, 2023, 04:23:14 PM
Think Knicks would've moved on Green by now if he was on their radar.

Begs the question as to why no other.teans have.

Stanley Johnson?

PuhLeese..
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 11, 2023, 09:44:05 PM
PG: Brunson, Quickley, McBride

SG: Grimes, DiVincenzo

SF: Barrett, Hart

G-Leaguers: Jeffries, Keels, Martin

Would seem as though Knicks are stockpiling wings in the 6'5"-6'6" range.

Such depth would suggest if not a deal in the offing, preparing for the possibility something might manifest.

Facil's wetdream Tori and my own OG,  bigger more 3-scaled SFs, leap to mind, though I sincerely doubt that they are on the clock.

I'm just happy with where we are, and not bidding on expensive shiny objects
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 11, 2023, 10:38:29 PM
Tari. Tari Tari Tari. With an a. Fuck! For christ sakes! Get it through your syncopated cranium already, would you Chop.

RJ + Evan = Pascal, give or take a pick. I think he pries lose easier than OG.

Also, the FO bet is deals will go down that shake even tastier guys lose and you are willing to risk a Johnson or Green to keep some powder dry with the open slot.
Title: Re: Chop Storn
Post by: facilitatorn on July 12, 2023, 01:57:28 AM
Best drummer, hack and wordsmith this side of the Pecos.

Or is that his porn name?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on July 12, 2023, 04:21:04 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 11, 2023, 10:38:29 PM
Tari. Tari Tari Tari. With an a. Fuck! For christ sakes! Get it through your syncopated cranium already, would you Chop.

RJ + Evan = Pascal, give or take a pick. I think he pries lose easier than OG.


From your lips to God's ear.
Title: Re: Chop Storn
Post by: carlos123 on July 12, 2023, 04:39:26 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 12, 2023, 01:57:28 AM
Best drummer, hack and wordsmith this side of the Pecos.

Or is that his porn name?

I still prefer Tori to Tari.

Speaking of which, what happened to Chamaco Cartero? I have not seen any of his two versions around this forum for a loooong time. Has he moved to Mar a Lago?
Title: Chop CHOP
Post by: chipstern on July 12, 2023, 05:12:52 PM
Quote from: elephant on July 12, 2023, 04:21:04 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 11, 2023, 10:38:29 PM
Tari. Tari Tari Tari. With an a. Fuck! For christ sakes! Get it through your syncopated cranium already, would you Chop.

RJ + Evan = Pascal, give or take a pick. I think he pries lose easier than OG.


From your lips to God's ear.

The idea that Pascal Siakim is up for grabs?

Phantasy Island Effusions from Click Bait Wannabees.

And yet another opportunity for our distinguished Trader Vics Facile and Ella Font to concoct RJ Dumps.

Good luck in accessing God's ear.

PS: DiVicenzo was a fave trade protection of Kiid.
Title: Backup PFs
Post by: chipstern on July 12, 2023, 08:51:57 PM
I like Sims and Roby.

I have zero enthusiasm for Green or Johnson.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: LarryB! on July 12, 2023, 11:36:40 PM
I think RJ can be a volume scorer.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 12, 2023, 11:43:18 PM
Do you want one of those these days?

My hope is that with the continuity we are building the whole team should have a better understanding of who should take what shots when and that we can build more wrinkles and counters into our sets.

I also hope we see more movement off the ball which is the key to having and sustaining hot streaks. For that I am not holding my breath.

Some of the above should help everyone with their percentages, even RJ.

Nice work by Martin and Brown Jr. tonight.
Title: Re: Chop CHOP
Post by: facilitatorn on July 12, 2023, 11:46:04 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 12, 2023, 05:12:52 PM
Quote from: elephant on July 12, 2023, 04:21:04 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 11, 2023, 10:38:29 PM
Tari. Tari Tari Tari. With an a. Fuck! For christ sakes! Get it through your syncopated cranium already, would you Chop.

RJ + Evan = Pascal, give or take a pick. I think he pries lose easier than OG.


From your lips to God's ear.

The idea that Pascal Siakim is up for grabs?

Phantasy Island Effusions from Click Bait Wannabees.

And yet another opportunity for our distinguished Trader Vics Facile and Ella Font to concoct RJ Dumps.

Good luck in accessing God's ear.

PS: DiVicenzo was a fave trade protection of Kiid.

 https://sports.yahoo.com/nba-summer-league-dispatch-the-latest-on-damian-lillard-pascal-siakam-and-others-who-might-be-on-the-move-221154632.html (https://sports.yahoo.com/nba-summer-league-dispatch-the-latest-on-damian-lillard-pascal-siakam-and-others-who-might-be-on-the-move-221154632.html)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 13, 2023, 12:29:52 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 12, 2023, 11:43:18 PM
Do you want one of those these days?

My hope is that with the continuity we are building the whole team should have a better understanding of who should take what shots when and that we can build more wrinkles and counters into our sets.

I also hope we see more movement off the ball which is the key to having and sustaining hot streaks. For that I am not holding my breath.

Some of the above should help everyone with their percentages, even RJ.

Nice work by Martin and Brown Jr. tonight.

Agree about continuity, cutters and movement.  Can't let defense key on Bunson and Randle.

Keele showing progress as a disher  and driver.  Woeful shooting.

Roby getting into shape, looking like banger and bomber. 

Martin looking to be athletic wing.  Hoping he and Barrett have another  late teens inch or two growth spurt in them. 
Title: Prevailing Consensus
Post by: chipstern on July 14, 2023, 01:15:14 PM
Is that Thibs cannot count to ten
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 14, 2023, 01:46:07 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 13, 2023, 12:29:52 AM
Martin looking to be athletic wing.  Hoping he and Barrett have another  late teens inch or two growth spurt in them.

Reportedly Sabonis grew two inches since he was measured at the start of last season. Perhaps he will get good and big like his dad was.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 14, 2023, 02:45:23 PM
PJ Washington wants a pay day and Charlotte is low balling him. Nobody has major cap space left. He can be had in a sign and trade.

Fournier, the worse of our pick or the one we get from Dallas and the two seconds we got for Obi for PJ.

I think that should work for both sides. PJ can take Fournier money to start 4 years for 80 mil no options.

Mitch Hartenstein Sims
Randle Washington Roby
RJ Hart Jefferies
Grimes Donte
Brunson IQ McBride

That would be a squad ready to rumble.

Martin, Brown Jr. and Keels as the two way guys.

Kentucky mafia assemble!

It is a deal with Charlotte where Hayward does not wind up a Knick. That should feel like progress to some of you at least.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 14, 2023, 04:31:09 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 14, 2023, 02:45:23 PM
PJ Washington wants a pay day and Charlotte is low balling him. Nobody has major cap space left. He can be had in a sign and trade.

Fournier, the worse of our pick or the one we get from Dallas and the two seconds we got for Obi for PJ.

I think that should work for both sides. PJ can take Fournier money to start 4 years for 80 mil no options.

Mitch Hartenstein Sims
Randle Washington Roby
RJ Hart Jefferies
Grimes Donte
Brunson IQ McBride

That would be a squad ready to rumble.

Martin, Brown Jr. and Keels as the two way guys.

Kentucky mafia assemble!

It is a deal with Charlotte where Hayward does not wind up a Knick. That should feel like progress to some of you at least.

I like PJ Washington a lot.

I take it you're projecting him as a dual purpose 3-4.

You interrupted my Cam Whitmore wet dreams.

Like the deal.

But wouldn't PJ get frustrated with only Obi's 15 minutes a night?
Title: Rotation
Post by: chipstern on July 14, 2023, 04:33:26 PM
Robinson, Hartenstein

Randle, Washington

RJ, Hart

Grimes, DiVincenzo

Brunson, Quickley

Not a lot of minutes to go around.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 14, 2023, 07:28:00 PM
Robinson 24 Hartenstein 12 Washington 12
Randle 32 Washington 16
RJ 28 Hart 20
Grimes 24 Donte 20 IQ 4
Brunson 30 IQ 18

Randle 32
Brunson 30
Washington 28
RJ 28
Grimes 24
Mitch 24
IQ 22
Hart 20
Donte 20
Hartenstein 12

PJ Washington would take 20 mil to be the sixth starter on a team built to make a solid run and a tough out the whole time he is here. His agent would approve as well.

Randle is coming off surgery. Minutes down.

Brunson is coming off two deep runs and a World Cup tournament. Minutes down.

Inconsistency and Nova quality and Nova nepotism can eat into his minutes. Same for Grimes and IQ.

Steel sharpens steel. Internal competition, results and attrition may get us back to a more top heavy distribution, but this would be a good place to start.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 14, 2023, 07:44:08 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 14, 2023, 07:28:00 PM
Robinson 24 Hartenstein 12 Washington 12
Randle 32 Washington 16
RJ 28 Hart 20
Grimes 24 Donte 20 IQ 4
Brunson 30 IQ 18

Randle 32
Brunson 30
Washington 28
RJ 28
Grimes 24
Mitch 24
IQ 22
Hart 20
Donte 20
Hartenstein 12

From your mouth to God's ear.

PS: Really liking our Ukranian center.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 14, 2023, 07:49:40 PM
We have a game today, do we not?

I did some addon thoughts to that minutes thing, if you look back up the thread.

I do hope the big guy signs with Westchester for this year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 14, 2023, 08:27:29 PM
Ska! Pint! Sev!

My keepers from this year are Roby, Martin, Brown Jr., Keels and Skapintsev. Maybe Harris and Robertson would be nice on the junior squad.

Roby has a real contract already, good job us.

Martin and Downtown Charlie are my priorities for two way contracts.

We hit the middle of the pack with no draft picks. System uber alles.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 14, 2023, 09:42:31 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 14, 2023, 08:27:29 PM
Ska! Pint! Sev!

My keepers from this year are Roby, Martin, Brown Jr., Keels and Skapintsev. Maybe Harris and Robertson would be nice on the junior squad.

Roby has a real contract already, good job us.

Martin and Downtown Charlie are my priorities for two way contracts.

We hit the middle of the pack with no draft picks. System uber alles.

Downtown Brown.  Wow.

Only summer league, but he made a statement.

Was happy to see Keels put.it together, and Roby looks like a nice player. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 15, 2023, 02:41:24 AM
The rookies are exceptional this year.

Asur over Amen, but they are both going to make our wings look silly this year.

Relatedly, though I know it cannot happen, I would trade Hart and DiVincenzo for Kobe Brown and I would throw in three second rounders to get it done.

Water under the bridge.

System uber alles.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on July 15, 2023, 02:41:12 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 15, 2023, 02:41:24 AM
The rookies are exceptional this year.

Asur over Amen, but they are both going to make our wings look silly this year.

Relatedly, though I know it cannot happen, I would trade Hart and DiVincenzo for Kobe Brown and I would throw in three second rounders to get it done.

Water under the bridge.

System uber alles.

Well, we've seen Hart hold his own and then some against some of the best basketball players on the planet.

But by all means, go with the guy who has amazing performances against aspiring, but second-rate hoopsters on a handful of July afternoons.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 15, 2023, 08:29:53 PM
The guy who is 6-8, 250, moves like a cat, has hands of steel and is always making the right play.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 15, 2023, 10:41:15 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 15, 2023, 08:29:53 PM
The guy who is 6-8, 250, moves like a cat, has hands of steel and is always making the right play.

Stop already

You had another one.of your acid flashbacks, and were compelled to exceed the lunacy.of your Hayward hallucinations. 

Barkeep..some bromo seltzer for our pal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 16, 2023, 01:43:54 PM
If you got U-bet, I will take an egg cream.

If Donald Sterling were still in charge of the Clips we could have the kid by the all star break.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 16, 2023, 11:30:27 PM
Traditionally, under this management group, we have shifted one chair at the deadline to good effect. Having a chair the size of the fat ass Fournier contract and a redundancy of good short wings could come in handy for doing it again to good effect.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 17, 2023, 12:12:00 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 16, 2023, 11:30:27 PM
Traditionally, under this management group, we have shifted one chair at the deadline to good effect. Having a chair the size of the fat ass Fournier contract and a redundancy of good short wings could come in handy for doing it again to good effect.

Apparently, rumor wise, we were involved in a three way that would have exited Fournier, and  brought us back yet another guard, Cam Payne, who was dealt to the Spurs.

Bol Bol signed by Suns.  Nice move.

MeHee For YooHoo
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 17, 2023, 03:24:49 AM
Quote from: chipstern on July 17, 2023, 12:12:00 AM

Apparently, rumor wise, we were involved in a three way that would have exited Fournier, and  brought us back yet another guard, Cam Payne, who was dealt to the Spurs.

Bol Bol signed by Suns.  Nice move.

MeHee For YooHoo

http://youtu.be/ADwVvT7-5_0 (http://youtu.be/ADwVvT7-5_0)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on July 17, 2023, 06:29:57 PM
Hate rumors of Embiid coming to the Knicks.

Just tortures my heart.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 17, 2023, 09:01:06 PM
Yup. Hard pass for what it would cost. He is a little better than Mitch though, I have to admit.
Title: Hard pass
Post by: carlos123 on July 18, 2023, 12:39:50 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 17, 2023, 09:01:06 PM
Yup. Hard pass for what it would cost. He is a little better than Mitch though, I have to admit.

Well, at least we are not getting The Beard or Krazy Kyrie.

I would rather keep Mitch, no matter how good Embiid may be.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on July 18, 2023, 03:04:33 AM
lmmao
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on July 18, 2023, 10:36:24 AM
I would stick 5 number ones in Mitchs back pocket so fast, give him a kiss on the cheek, a stiff kick in the rear, and remind him to pick up RJ and Evan on the way to the airport.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on July 18, 2023, 10:39:10 AM
y'all are some bubblehead bumpkins!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on July 18, 2023, 12:34:49 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 17, 2023, 09:01:06 PM
Yup. Hard pass for what it would cost. He is a little better than Mitch though, I have to admit.

Come on, man, you can't be serious.

Embiid is a GREAT basketball player.

How is it you don't see that?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on July 18, 2023, 12:36:50 PM
Meanwhile Fournier's comments yesterday:

"You want to spit on everyone. You have hatred," Fournier said. "Derrick Rose and I looked at each other and said to each other: 'What the hell are we doing here?' During the five-on-five practice, we were on the side like some prospects. Uncool times."

"If you want to trade me with a good return, why didn't you use me?" Fournier rhetorically asked. "I was coming out of a season where I was the fourth-best three-point shooter in the league. Why not take advantage of it? Now they won't get anything interesting and that's normal because I couldn't show anything."

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on July 18, 2023, 12:43:48 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on July 18, 2023, 10:36:24 AM
I would stick 5 number ones in Mitchs back pocket so fast, give him a kiss on the cheek, a stiff kick in the rear, and remind him to pick up RJ and Evan on the way to the airport.

That's pretty fucking funny.

I love the image and am definitely in the Amen corner.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 18, 2023, 01:40:21 PM
Quote from: elephant on July 18, 2023, 12:34:49 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 17, 2023, 09:01:06 PM
Yup. Hard pass for what it would cost. He is a little better than Mitch though, I have to admit.

Come on, man, you can't be serious.

Embiid is a GREAT basketball player.

How is it you don't see that?

I see he is great. I have regularly watched him kick our ass.

As a guy getting a third of the cap is he a 65 game center or a 50 game center going forward? That makes a difference.

I was around for Ewing in his thirties. I know there are many ways to fuck up a team around a great center and that having one alone is not enough.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 18, 2023, 01:42:47 PM
Randle & Mitch and no more than two picks and only one of those unprotected is my best offer for Joel. If Philly wants to take less that is fine, no way more should be offered. 

Title: Get A Grip
Post by: chipstern on July 18, 2023, 04:32:24 PM
Embid
Ain't
Coming

🔊🔊🔊
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 18, 2023, 05:12:41 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 18, 2023, 01:40:21 PM
Quote from: elephant on July 18, 2023, 12:34:49 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 17, 2023, 09:01:06 PM
Yup. Hard pass for what it would cost. He is a little better than Mitch though, I have to admit.

Come on, man, you can't be serious.

Embiid is a GREAT basketball player.

How is it you don't see that?

I see he is great. I have regularly watched him kick our ass.

As a guy getting a third of the cap is he a 65 game center or a 50 game center going forward? That makes a difference.

I was around for Ewing in his thirties. I know there are many ways to fuck up a team around a great center and that having one alone is not enough.

Pacers fucked us and Patrick up by taking Chuck Person one spot ahead of us, not unlike Warriors taking Steph.

In both cases we subsequently double fucked ourselves, by taking Kenny Walker ahead of Ron Harper, and Jordan Hill ahead of DeMar DeRozan

By all means let's trade away our entire team for a  brilliant but injury prone center who is good for 55-65 games a year, with an immense cap hit now entering his 30s
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on July 18, 2023, 06:38:33 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 18, 2023, 05:12:41 PM
By all means let's trade away our entire team for a  brilliant but injury prone center who is good for 55-65 games a year, with an immense cap hit now entering his 30s

First, it's better if you make your point without colossal distortions. No one talked about trading away "our entire team."

Second, you sound more like a fabulist than a realist. You've seen the combo of Thibs, RJ and Randle for a few years now, but you're dreaming that this is the year they don't get manhandled in the playoffs (if they reach the playoffs)?

Wake up! They are who they are! And one talented and plucky point guard can't radically change that.

If you want a team that can fight for a place in the playoffs for the next 7 years, sometimes even getting to the second round, then cool! We're moving in that direction. Anything more is a pipe dream.

Meanwhile, we DO have draft picks and talented players and contracts to wield for someone transformative. So yes, I don't believe reaching for an immensely talented and impactful player is absurd, and I don't think the front office does either. 
Title: Someone Transformative
Post by: chipstern on July 18, 2023, 08:03:20 PM
Again...

The idea that Embid is in play?

NONSENSICAL

Yes we have assets.

Yes Leon has a significant relationship.with EMBID.

Yes, when ambulatory, he is a difference maker.

We shall see.

However, wishing ain't fishing.

And the relentless drum beats of ClickBait Wannabees and professional rumour mongers ain't bringing JoL or OG to NY
Title: PS
Post by: chipstern on July 18, 2023, 08:05:24 PM
Dear Brother Elephant

My being a Doubting Thomas ain't keeping the Knicks from getting the impactful player of your dreams.

A competitive team not good enough?

Oh well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 18, 2023, 09:34:47 PM
The pivot is not the problem on either end. Nor is rebounding. Nor is any aspect of the backcourt.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 18, 2023, 10:54:18 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 18, 2023, 09:34:47 PM
The pivot is not the problem on either end. Nor is rebounding. Nor is any aspect of the backcourt.

👁🌎👁
Title: Crazy bitches don't want the mFN MVP!!!!
Post by: lesterluv on July 18, 2023, 10:57:17 PM
I can't even take it.

Cause you just had your second hot dog in a decade. Can't even imagine what real food tastes like any more.

To preserve a front court status quo that includes:

a mentally ill PF who delivers every other year.

an absolutely one way C who is more injury prone than Embiid.

sad crazy bitches.

a low hoop-IQ fifth year SF who can't shoot and has yet to deliver a net + season.

or maybe it's the picks.

and you don't want the mFn MVP, lol....

the craziest bitches I know. so beat down. can't even remember what it smells like. so happy for the crumbs that fall from Thibs butt.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 19, 2023, 02:24:53 AM
I had a deal for Embiid. In player terms it is Jules and Mitch.

Wait a minute. Combine that with my Raptors deal. Siakam for RJ and Fournier.

We keep the Nova Core, so carefully collected.

Embiid Hartenstein Sims
Siakam Roby
Hart Jefferies
Grimes DiVincenzo
Brunson Quickley McBride

It would be easy to see Charlie Brown Jr. joining Roby on the bench.

We would also still have the Obi trade exception to play with if we want to go above the minimum for forward depth. Or, and this is the afterthought, we could play Sims next to Embiid with Siakam at the three. That is still four out basketball, but where the opponents will want to bring a dental specialist to the game and provide wheelbarrows for the trip back to the locker room.

We would never make a draft pick again and our window would be now.

It is a full burn the boats situation. Does it beat Denver?

Also, the gods are never that nice to us.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 19, 2023, 03:11:09 AM
"And you don't want the mFn MVP, lol...."

In what alternative universe is Joel Embid in play.  I.mustve been napping.

Wouldn't be the first time

Appaently 47 wins did not soothe the  Bard of Broolkyn's blood lust.

Dawg will serve no whine before its tine
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 19, 2023, 03:31:59 PM
I think we could get Luka Saminic from the Jazz. They have too many bigs who need to play.

The rights to Jokabitus and a bag of balls should get it done.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 19, 2023, 03:56:16 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 19, 2023, 03:31:59 PM
I think we could get Luka Saminic from the Jazz. They have too many bigs who need to play.

The rights to Jokabitus and a bag of balls should get it done.

I.am sure you might recall that Luka was once signed to a Knick 2-way, played well, was shut down with plantar fasciatis [sic?], and was released
Title: 2 Way Signing
Post by: chipstern on July 19, 2023, 05:27:05 PM
Reports are that the Knicks have signed PF-C Nathan Knight to a 2-way.

I've seen him listed as 6'8" or 6'10", 250-260 pounds.

Played for the T Wolves past two years.

So much for Trader Facil's  Luka Samanac outreach.  Liked Luka and wished we had been more patient.

PS: Interesting projections as to some tenable talent being available via the waiver wire from OKC
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 19, 2023, 05:40:42 PM
I am going to have to look into Knight.

The reason he is available is Leonard Miller. Is Miller going to displace Towns or Slowmo I wonder.

This video made me cry a little

 https://youtu.be/X97gvKgcBBo (https://youtu.be/X97gvKgcBBo)

His shooting form is like Haliburton and for the same reason. It lets you wait longer before committing to passing or shooting without breaking the rhythm of the action.

Anyways, Nat Knight might be a Knick you say.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 19, 2023, 05:50:55 PM
Fac has read the release and checked the tape, the cherry picked good stuff at least. Fac is happy.

Maybe this guy has a regular contract by the end of camp.

Still want Charlie Brown Jr.

Mitch Hartenstein Sims
Julius Roby Knight
RJ Hart Jefferies
Grimes DiVincenzo Brown Jr.
Brunson IQ McBride

Buy out the soggy baguette and get to business.

I read that roster as having Larry Brown Piston style championship potential in the League as it is today if Roby can give guys like LBJ, Butler, Klaw and Tatum 25 minutes and 5 hard fouls.

And you could put me down for 45 wins, a two game bump from last year.
Title: Knight
Post by: chipstern on July 19, 2023, 06:47:04 PM

Three point shooting up to .368 last season in limited minutes. 

Listed as either 6'8" or 6'10", the 250 pound F-C Nathan Knight, played two seasons for Minny. 

In his senior year, Knight averaged 20.7 points, 10.5 rebounds, and 1.5 blocks per game on his way to being named the CAA Player of the Year, becoming the first player in William & Mary's history to win the award.

Knight also received numerous other accolades, including CAA Defensive Player of the Year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on July 19, 2023, 09:49:52 PM
Yo!  The forum is back??  Since when?!
Title: Re: Help
Post by: Kam on July 19, 2023, 10:01:21 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on November 09, 2022, 10:52:37 PM
I can no longer see or post to the forum on my computer, no problem on the cell phone.
The message I get on chrome is:
This site cannot provide a secure connection (well, I knew that, but did not use to give me trouble).
forums.escapefromelba.com uses an unsupported protocol.
ERR_SSL_VERSION_OR_CIPHER_MISMATCH

I tried two more browsers with the same result.
I also went through settings to allow the forum as a no secure connection site.

Still the same result.

Can anyone help? I really enjoy the forum on the computes. Thanks

Bruh,  I saw that message until today.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 19, 2023, 10:43:14 PM
Quote from: Kam on July 19, 2023, 09:49:52 PM
Yo!  The forum is back??  Since when?!

Missed you, sunshine.

Except for the occasional intermittent outage it has never been away for me.

I hope you have had good travels in the meantime

How much do you blame the decent of Fournier from well reputed shooter to social disease on our always polarizing coach?
Title: 15
Post by: chipstern on July 19, 2023, 11:48:21 PM
Knicks have finalized their three 2-way contracts.

Nathan Knight,
6'8"
PF [25]

Jaylen Martin
6'6"
SF [19]

Trevor Keels
6'4"
[20]
Combo Guard

C: Robinson, Hartenstein, Sims

PF: Randle, Roby, Knight

SF: Barrett, Hart, Martin

SG: Grimes, Divincenzo, Keels

PG: Brunson, Quickley, McBride

Oh, and Fournier...
Title: Re: Someone Transformative
Post by: lesterluv on July 20, 2023, 12:57:43 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 18, 2023, 08:03:20 PM
Again...

The idea that Embid is in play?

NONSENSICAL


If you haven't noticed the number of A-LIST stars who have put themselves in motion over the last five years, you are already dead.

Completely possible, and inching ever so slowly toward probable.

Where there is smoke, there will be fire.

Philly hath f'd themselves so many times that it is close to irreparable. Original sin, not one, but the failure to resign Jimmy Buckets will haunt forever. Good. F Philly!

If you'd rather debate which 13th man we should pick up and not play, well, have at and have fun. I could care less.





** If Jokic himself came into play the forum consensus would be 2 picks but never 3, with I. Quick untouchable, lol

*** The former rookie of the year returns....welcome home.

**** Trevor Keels, lol, whoop d goddamn doooooo....
Title: Dawg Barking
Post by: chipstern on July 20, 2023, 02:13:20 PM
Knock Yourself Out

Time for the Ayotolah Dawg to issue more Phlatbush Phatwahs against JR, RJ and TT.

Bottom Line: EMBID Not In PLAY
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on July 20, 2023, 06:39:39 PM
Oh you beautiful bastards I thought I'd lost you forever
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on July 20, 2023, 06:54:54 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 19, 2023, 10:43:14 PM
Quote from: Kam on July 19, 2023, 09:49:52 PM
Yo!  The forum is back??  Since when?!

Missed you, sunshine.

Except for the occasional intermittent outage it has never been away for me.

I hope you have had good travels in the meantime

How much do you blame the decent of Fournier from well reputed shooter to social disease on our always polarizing coach?

Excellent travels my friend.

With my browser-banishment here I feel like my time away I was actually in another dimension, where I got to see the Knicks make the playoffs, knock off a higher seed, and compete vs an eventual finalist.   It was like that THANOS meme.   

(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjP3z4y7Ojv-SYLa20qnzGEp_sYuqh92My8WwSvFdUbXdxJ-64Zlgojvshfy_bMqFDMAVDEIpz0dzGIE8uFsWmFGgwLRTCTWoc4lE7bR0PpiC4O7r-MhFPcCDwdzXuPabdDnkAvBFlnqopCvpyuHzFYVe-N2wb1GQedSdtnNxL6OrTKXWu9Y5Cxtw5wc2-f/w640-h432/ThanosMeme.png)

How was it on earth prime?  Hope you guys had an exciting season.  It had a little bit of everything.

I saw what Evan said and i'm actually not gonna kill him for it.  Evan Fournier is a pro.  When he made his comments the other day, he knew what he was doing.  Trying to get outta here but held hostage by his contract.  His ploy won't work because i don't think he is willing to make a big stink about it.   Him telling some french reporter isn't really a big stink.  Maybe we ask him to stay home instead of come to camp now.  That's about all it would amount to. He is stuck here and is an important piece (as a contract) for our next evolution.

I love me some Jalen Brunson.  He is our Batman.

I love me some Immanuel Quickley (tough playoffs bud).  Still seeing Robin potential.

RJ - meh.   This is a break or make year coming up for him

Sad to see OBI fly away, and will monitor his sitch in INDY closely.  Might smile when I see his next dunk, even if it's over iHart.

And I love me some Elba.  I missed you guys.  Had to go to some deep dark places to find a new home.  But it feels nice to be back.
Title: Summer Leaguer's Diary of Hope. (good read)
Post by: Kam on July 20, 2023, 07:01:33 PM
Knicks QJ Peterson on IG: https://www.reddit.com/r/NYKnicks/comments/154vahn/really_good_read_from_a_summer_league_prospect/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/NYKnicks/comments/154vahn/really_good_read_from_a_summer_league_prospect/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 21, 2023, 06:16:06 AM
Quote from: Kam on July 20, 2023, 06:39:39 PM
Oh you beautiful bastards I thought I'd lost you forever
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 21, 2023, 01:27:10 PM
Rumor is the Spurs are interested in getting Fournier who shares an agent with Wemby and also speaks passable French.

I would take McBuckets back for Ev especially now Dougie is keeping himself in shape.

Got to keep tinkering with that twelfth man spot.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 21, 2023, 02:18:52 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 21, 2023, 01:27:10 PM
Rumor is the Spurs are interested in getting Fournier who shares an agent with Wemby and also speaks passable French.

I would take McBuckets back for Ev especially now Dougie is keeping himself in shape.

Got to keep tinkering with that twelfth man spot.

McDermott would be a dream return.  The Ayotollah Dawg might even grow tumescent.

Would certainly make for a crowded rotation.  Would be a pity if McDermoot simply took Rose and Fournier's spot on the bench.

Word is, problematically,  that Knicks are not inclined to include draft capital.

Hello?

A couple of #2 picks?  Seriously?
Title: NBA Trivia
Post by: Kam on July 21, 2023, 04:02:02 PM
You guys hip to this?  https://www.crossovergrid.com/ (https://www.crossovergrid.com/).

I got 5 out of 9 correct today.


Score: 475.84
Rank: 11,631/20,517
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 21, 2023, 04:03:19 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 21, 2023, 02:18:52 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 21, 2023, 01:27:10 PM
Rumor is the Spurs are interested in getting Fournier who shares an agent with Wemby and also speaks passable French.

I would take McBuckets back for Ev especially now Dougie is keeping himself in shape.

Got to keep tinkering with that twelfth man spot.

McDermott would be a dream return.  The Ayotollah Dawg might even grow tumescent.

Would certainly make for a crowded rotation.  Would be a pity if McDermoot simply took Rose and Fournier's spot on the bench.

Word is, problematically,  that Knicks are not inclined to include draft capital.

Hello?

A couple of #2 picks?  Seriously?

Stop giving away the store. No picks, just a one for one swap if we do it at all. Getting Doug back would not make us measurably better than getting a buyout agreement from Fournier and signing Charlie Brown Jr. in his stead.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 21, 2023, 08:24:12 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 21, 2023, 04:03:19 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 21, 2023, 02:18:52 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 21, 2023, 01:27:10 PM
Rumor is the Spurs are interested in getting Fournier who shares an agent with Wemby and also speaks passable French.

I would take McBuckets back for Ev especially now Dougie is keeping himself in shape.

Got to keep tinkering with that twelfth man spot.

McDermott would be a dream return.  The Ayotollah Dawg might even grow tumescent.

Would certainly make for a crowded rotation.  Would be a pity if McDermoot simply took Rose and Fournier's spot on the bench.

Word is, problematically,  that Knicks are not inclined to include draft capital.

Hello?

A couple of #2 picks?  Seriously?

Stop giving away the store. No picks, just a one for one swap if we do it at all. Getting Doug back would not make us measurably better than getting a buyout agreement from Fournier and signing Charlie Brown Jr. in his stead.

Counting our three 2-Way players, and excluding Fournier, we already have FIFTEEN. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 22, 2023, 01:07:27 AM
We get 18. 15 regular contracts and 3 two-ways.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 22, 2023, 11:32:36 AM
We may use both the EF ending deal and an extra available slot to facilitate a deal to get Dame to Miami or Harden to LA.

I expect some shuffling well into September.

Still, for now

Mitch Hartenstein Sims
Randle Roby Knight
RJ Hart Jefferies Fournier
Grimes DiVincenzo Martin Keels
Brunson IQ McBride

One regular contract spot is available.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on July 23, 2023, 01:00:24 PM
We can endlessly discuss our...15, 16th, I mean...18th roster spot. Or, we can meet Keith Pompey of the Philly Inquirer.

"As the Sixers beat reporter, I provide daily coverage, perspective, a social media presence and long-form takeout pieces about one of the NBA's young emerging teams."

What does Pompey have to say this weekend?

While discussing the idea of a possible Embiid trade with SiriusXM NBA Radio's Evan Cohen and Sam Mitchell, Pompey stated that he could see a trade to the Knicks "absolutely happening."

"Joel already owns a house up in New York, he's had it for a while. The worst-kept secret is that the Knicks have been compiling and keeping ahold of their first-round draft picks hoping, and praying that Joel Embiid asks out ... I can see that absolutely happening," Pompey stated.


* So Chip sez crazyasslesterdawgphantasy, the Sixer's #1 beat reporter sez, what were those words? "can see that absolutely happening," hmmm.......OK!

** BTW, Joel got married Saturday....in the Hamptons.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 23, 2023, 03:40:43 PM
The Last Daze
Of
Pompei

From the Vesuvius of Vitriol

Our own beloved Ayatollah LessIsMore

Conclusive proof that rumors abound.and as such we rejoice in the cataclysm of wishing as phishing

We are humbled by such a conclusive conclusion that smoke equals fire, because Jo El got married in the Hamptons.

Third Stoner From The Sun

May we never listen to surf music again, nor engage in discussions other than those which invoke the spectre of superstars.

So let it be written, so let it be done.

🕛⚫️🕛
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on July 24, 2023, 12:39:49 PM
I'm good with 7th, 8th, 9th-man discussions, btw.

But no point in dipping down to 10, no way, not with this coach.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 24, 2023, 02:33:37 PM
Who are your top 9 on the current roster? That would give us an idea of what besides the exorbitant and insanely complicated might count as an improvement. 
Title: Dylan Windler
Post by: chipstern on July 24, 2023, 04:26:22 PM
Yet another two way signing
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 24, 2023, 06:35:13 PM
That makes four guys on two-ways.

Knight, Windler, Martin, and Keels. Since we only get to keep three, I think Keels should be the one to go.

Though this is very much an end of the roster conversation, I am happy to have it.

Maybe one day Les will tell us who he considers the top nine roster guys who should be mainstays of this rotation.

Having Windler to practice against should help us with our rotations and deep closeouts. He is a solid stand in the corner guy who can do it on a professional level.

I like Charlie Brown Jr. better than any of our current two-way guys except Knight.
Title: A Dawg Hummy For The Ayatollah Less
Post by: chipstern on July 24, 2023, 09:39:23 PM
Tim BombTempsThinks There Is No Way Donovan ReUps With Cavs

⚫️💣⚫️
Title: Facil A Tater
Post by: chipstern on July 24, 2023, 10:05:09 PM
Apparently Keels is on his way out.
Title: THIBS' Mine Nine = 10
Post by: chipstern on July 24, 2023, 10:07:49 PM
Robinson, Hartenstein

Randle, Roby

RJ, Hart

Grimes, DiVincenzo

Brunson, IQ
Title: Re: THIBS' Mine Nine = 10
Post by: chipstern on July 25, 2023, 12:52:45 AM
Quote from: chipstern on July 24, 2023, 10:07:49 PM
Robinson, Hartenstein

Randle, Roby

RJ, Hart

Grimes, DiVincenzo

Brunson, IQ

If TT is alarmingly anal in his rotations, cross Roby off the list in anticipation of RJ.sliding over to a Small Ball PF with a second unit of IH, RJ, JH,  DD and IQ. 

Would hope to see the Hartenstein offensive role have evolved from the limited sets of last season. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 25, 2023, 05:07:55 AM
Lets see Mitch get a push shot and a baby hook for christsakes.
Title: Re: THIBS' Mine Nine = 10
Post by: lesterluv on July 25, 2023, 01:28:09 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 24, 2023, 06:35:13 PM

Maybe one day Les will tell us who he considers the top nine roster guys who should be mainstays of this rotation.


Well ain't gonna be too different from Chip's anal TT scenario...and I think Deuce will see more action than Roby.

Title: Re: THIBS' Mine Nine = 10
Post by: chipstern on July 25, 2023, 02:57:50 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on July 25, 2023, 01:28:09 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 24, 2023, 06:35:13 PM

Maybe one day Les will tell us who he considers the top nine roster guys who should be mainstays of this rotation.


Well ain't gonna be too different from Chip's anal TT scenario...and I think Deuce will see more action than Roby.

Anal.+ Banal = Cranal

😃🇺🇸😃
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 25, 2023, 03:40:10 PM
So Deuce, Hartenstein, Roby and DiVincenzo are the rotation fringe while Mitch, JR, RJ, Grimes, Brunson, IQ and Hart are the superior seven.

Looking at the fringe four and potentially having the Fournier contract to play with how can we get palpably better without getting radically different.

Is Doug McBuckets a palpably better wing than DiVincenzo or better forward than Roby? He is probably a bit better for Chemistry than Fournier and could teach a thing or two to RJ and Grimes. Is that worth a future second rounder, say one we got for Obi, to get SA to take the extra money?

I would probably say yes, though I
Title: Fringe
Post by: chipstern on July 25, 2023, 04:12:41 PM
No way Isaiah and Donte are fringe.

PS: Remains to be seen if TT revisits his rotation strategies with a year of Brunson in the can, and players he has greater trust in than Obi.
Title: Re: Fringe
Post by: chipstern on July 25, 2023, 04:17:32 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 25, 2023, 04:12:41 PM
No way Isaiah and Donte are fringe.

PS: Remains to be seen if TT revisits his rotation strategies with a year of Brunson in the can, and players he has greater trust in than Obi.

Leon has moved on from players Thibs was not invested in.

Obi.  Kemba.  Rose.  Fournier.  Cam. 

Burks and Taj being exceptions. 

 
Clearly, Hart and DiVicenzo are Thibs choices.

Again, like McDermott.  Think if Thibs was on board, would be a done deal. 
Title: Bronny
Post by: chipstern on July 25, 2023, 06:22:34 PM
LeBron James' son suffered cardiac arrest during a USC practice.

Kind thoughts to him and his family. 

Put me in mind of Reggie Lewis.  And Hank Gathers.

 🌺🙏🌺
Title: Re: Bronny
Post by: LarryB! on July 25, 2023, 08:54:14 PM
Quote from: chipstern on July 25, 2023, 06:22:34 PM
LeBron James' son suffered cardiac arrest during a USC practice.

Kind thoughts to him and his family. 

Put me in mind of Reggie Lewis.  And Hank Gathers.

 🌺🙏🌺

Yeah, except those guys are dead.
Title: Crossovergrid.com
Post by: Kam on July 26, 2023, 02:15:46 PM
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjqvF4j2o_8jdQoUkQUcDTr8oWGAM5qMIgdtjWnKDsLdfrkkbhy4Q3vkNZRUANDEql5vEIkE4cv7rFrizw8gFmEk6lHy8FJ_JQyQ1PyFqWZFsZHCpHWJzn57pwwXoq21wwfHBH0-DwrHfq4gS8HBNV1OELEuYWxRjqkyGgSwFUerNRx1JYrHV3EqBHw1Vl-/w640-h536/Screen%20Shot%202023-07-26%20at%201.05.28%20PM.png)

Score: 178.27
Rank: 2,936/16,408

Perfect Score!

🟩 🟩 🟩
🟩 🟩 🟩
🟩 🟩 🟩

Crossover Grid #28 🏀
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 28, 2023, 06:51:38 PM
PJ Washington has yet to come to terms with Charlotte.

I would offer Evan, stashed Rokas and three future second rounders for PJ starting in an Evan price range and a team option on the  back end.

I see him as a better fit with Julius and RJ than either are with each other. I also see him opening the door to small ball without putting Jules at the 5.

It makes us expensive when we pay IQ and Hart but I also think it makes us good enough to want to spend the money.

Mitch Hartenstein Sims
Randle Washington
RJ Hart Roby
Grimes DiVincenzo Jefferies
Brunson IQ McBride
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 30, 2023, 03:54:46 AM
Love PJ, like hour trade, but do.not see this as a realistic scenario.  Either money wise nor accepting limited rotation minutes.

Some ideas?  REALISTIC IDEAS.

Fournier plus some second rounders to the Spurs for Reggie Bullock.  Thibs loves him, knows his defensive principles, can still spot up threes,  and a chemistry bond with Julius. 

Taj Gibson as a 15th man PF/C, player coach.  Could mentor Roby and Sims and the new 2-way big, certainly capable of 10-12 a night at PF, even at 38.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 30, 2023, 02:24:27 PM
You have jumped below the rotational nine line. Someone may come to scoff at you about that.

I see Randle and Washington being a potentially acceptable small ball frontcourt look even to Thibs & recognize that Randle coming off surgery could benefit from a small dial back in workload

Mitch 22 Washington 14 Hartenstein 12
Randle 32 Washington 16

30 minutes on a contending team is better than 32 or 34 on the committed tank mission Charlotte is about to embark on.

There may be better non marginal ideas for moves. I am waiting to hear one

Behind RJ and Hart, Reggie would be marginal.

15-20 for a sixth or seventh man is fine. 10 for the eleventh or twelfth man is nuts.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 30, 2023, 08:38:20 PM
Fair enough

Remains to be seen how,  with a roster purpose driven by personnel decisions that suit THIBS' preferences, and rotational options more to his liking
and with a fully vetted and broken in Brunson, how TT evolves.

Including Rotations.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 30, 2023, 09:00:12 PM
Remember that after reasonably heavy playoff runs Brunson and Hart are playing with the national team and Jules is rehabbing a knee. At least till the AS break I would hope Thibs dials them back to keep them fresh as well as to see who can step up in those spots.

A healthy and connected team coming out the the regular season is more important than home court.
Title: Assumptions
Post by: carlos123 on July 31, 2023, 12:40:48 AM
You are all assuming that TT is a rational agent, meaning his rationality would trump his rigidity.

I say, that remains to be seen.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 31, 2023, 03:16:12 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 30, 2023, 09:00:12 PM
Remember that after reasonably heavy playoff runs Brunson and Hart are playing with the national team and Jules is rehabbing a knee. At least till the AS break I would hope Thibs dials them back to keep them fresh as well as to see who can step up in those spots.

A healthy and connected team coming out the the regular season is more important than home court.

Ankle.  Rehabbing an ankle.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 31, 2023, 12:39:46 PM
That is less worrying than a knee, but the concept still applies. Also RJ is doing team Canada so his roll might need to be slowed as well.

Sounds like the Hart extension is 75 over 4. Hope the last year is the fattest while also being a team option.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: LarryB! on July 31, 2023, 04:07:39 PM
What is it about Thibs and JVG grinding players into the dust?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 31, 2023, 05:57:42 PM
Some is I think they both take players at their word in terms of in-season fitness. Treating most of the athletes of today as men is at best a mixed proposition.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 31, 2023, 05:58:47 PM
MSG replaying the late March game in Cleveland where Jalen and Donovan had an epic duel.

Julius out with bum ankle. Jalen with 48.  Obi made a nice contribution but at crunch time Thibs had

Hartenstein with some combo of RJ, Hart, IQ and Brunson, rotating in Grimes and McBride.

Sneak preview of 23-24, but pencil in DDiVicenzo.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 31, 2023, 07:39:24 PM
That is Cleveland.

Boston
Brooklyn
Philly
Toronto
Milwaukee
Miami

All require a different and better formula.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 01, 2023, 07:58:56 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on July 31, 2023, 07:39:24 PM
That is Cleveland.

Boston
Brooklyn
Philly
Toronto
Milwaukee
Miami

All require a different and better formula.

It would thus appear y'all are SOL.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 01, 2023, 01:12:44 PM
Roby and Knight both have a little more two way shine than our boy Obi.

That is going to give Thibs a chance at a little more deployment flexibility if he chooses to take it.

Also we can hot swap smallish wings through three overtimes without let up or let down, which should also help.

Internal growth from our centers could be the x-factor that puts us over the top, though I am tempered in my expectations in that regard.

It should still be more fun this year than watching iso-Melo or iso-Jules teams ever was.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 01, 2023, 02:15:37 PM
How RJ and JR evolve, let alone Thibs with a roster of his choosing.

Have to go back to the Reed Knicks to experience a home grown roster that was allowed to baste in its own juices.

In that sense, while our roster additions were not as sexy as one might have imagined, I like the progression of IQ and QG, and have lofty hopes for our Tripartite Nova on a bagel.
Title: Danny Boy [Jackie Wilson]
Post by: chipstern on August 01, 2023, 03:59:42 PM
https://youtu.be/Xh-9vhH7kYQ (https://youtu.be/Xh-9vhH7kYQ)
Title: Re: Danny Boy [Jackie Wilson]
Post by: facilitatorn on August 01, 2023, 05:46:53 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 01, 2023, 03:59:42 PM
https://youtu.be/Xh-9vhH7kYQ (https://youtu.be/Xh-9vhH7kYQ)

http://youtu.be/izdTsAeoLtQ (http://youtu.be/izdTsAeoLtQ)

Go to version for me.
Title: Re: Danny Boy [Jackie Wilson]
Post by: chipstern on August 01, 2023, 10:06:24 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 01, 2023, 05:46:53 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 01, 2023, 03:59:42 PM
https://youtu.be/Xh-9vhH7kYQ (https://youtu.be/Xh-9vhH7kYQ)

http://youtu.be/izdTsAeoLtQ (http://youtu.be/izdTsAeoLtQ)

Go to version for me.

Right on, Tony.
Title: A Joel Embid Trade In The Offing?
Post by: chipstern on August 04, 2023, 03:45:47 PM
(https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/365215210_10226903687992211_5788341660140863220_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=Ekr0vZEqVGcAX9HD5de&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=00_AfBgXFtRFbImqgjRAfPRRcMErC-xuL-bJX6o_XzSBphxDw&oe=64D261FE)
Title: Sinead O'Connor [DANNY BOY]
Post by: chipstern on August 04, 2023, 04:13:07 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PweUGhCZNiM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PweUGhCZNiM)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 04, 2023, 08:56:38 PM
That was dope Chip.

Are we getting smoke or chem trails about Embiid?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 04, 2023, 09:04:23 PM
Frank Ntilikina to Charlotte on a one year minimum. Very good pickup for them. I bet he earns his biggest NBA role yet. They need his skill set badly.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 04, 2023, 09:09:51 PM
Skapintsev got a training camp contract with GLeague bump up from us. Good we are keeping him in the family.
Title: Progress [Trust The Process]
Post by: chipstern on August 04, 2023, 09:33:33 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 04, 2023, 09:09:51 PM
Skapintsev got a training camp contract with GLeague bump up from us. Good we are keeping him in the family.

Glad to hear about Skappy.  Really liked his game.  Could see Thibs committing to Isaiah [for some] back up stretch 4 behind JR.  Dmytro and Jericho could spell Mitchell.  We have to see how Roby & Knight pan out. 

No smoke signals on Embid or Fournier or Dame or Harden. 

IRONY ALERT: We ended up with Brunson, Quickley, DiVicenzo & McBride. Charlotte ended up with Frank Ntilikina and Dennis Smith. 

THIBS: Notice how much better TT Teams are with competent point guards?  Two winning seasons and playoff advancement. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 05, 2023, 03:16:14 AM
Rose gave us a good dose of vintage when that season could have easily collapsed.

Brunson has given us our best point guarding in a while.

Our key to ultimate success will be our ability to move him off the ball in our best closing lineups. He is definitely a keeper and great signing.

I fully believe DSJ has turned the corner and can feel in his bones how to hoop right. I do not think Frank is that far off.

Grimes DiVincenzo IQ Brunson and McBride are all more interesting to me than our two star crossed castoffs as they combine with LaMelo to orchestrate and navigate the situation in Charlotte.

The reason I say a not through Brunson offense is essential is that Miami published the book on how to choke out our offense run through Brunson. Just as we saw so much zone until this year when we started to show we can break them and break them hard, we will see more Miami style D from well coached teams that have the personnel. The math say that any lineup is worth trotting out on the gamble they can find some offense, any offense.

Sorry to bring it up and shit in the middle of trying to sing praises.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 05, 2023, 03:32:01 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 05, 2023, 03:16:14 AM
Rose gave us a good dose of vintage when that season could have easily collapsed.

Brunson has given us our best point guarding in a while.

Our key to ultimate success will be our ability to move him off the ball in our best closing lineups. He is definitely a keeper and great signing.

I fully believe DSJ has turned the corner and can feel in his bones how to hoop right. I do not think Frank is that far off.

Grimes DiVincenzo IQ Brunson and McBride are all more interesting to me than our two star crossed castoffs as they combine with LaMelo to orchestrate and navigate the situation in Charlotte.

The reason I say a not through Brunson offense is essential is that Miami published the book on how to choke out our offense run through Brunson. Just as we saw so much zone until this year when we started to show we can break them and break them hard, we will see more Miami style D from well coached teams that have the personnel. The math say that any lineup is worth trotting out on the gamble they can find some offense, any offense.

Sorry to bring it up and shit in the middle of trying to sing praises.

Kool

We have work to do.

Yes, agree that we need to get Brunson off ball as well. 

I think Grines is going to break out in 2023-24. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 06, 2023, 03:32:32 PM
http://youtu.be/WjTjuBPdiOA (http://youtu.be/WjTjuBPdiOA)

USA scrimmage w juicy action by JB.
Title: Rotations
Post by: chipstern on August 07, 2023, 05:39:41 AM
 As much as Brunson.improved in 2022-23 over 2021-22, that's how much he looks to bust out in 2023-24.
Also, irrespective of who starts, I think we are going to see a significant amount of:

Brunson-DiVincenzo-Hart

Quickley-Grimes-Barrett

PAIRED with

Robinson Randle

Hartenstein
? Roby/Knight/Sims ?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 07, 2023, 05:34:08 PM
Click Bait Phantasy WackOffs

Trending

Proposed trading of HARTENSTEIN

Morons
Title: Training Camp Beckons
Post by: chipstern on August 08, 2023, 09:39:39 PM
All the congenitally weeping and wailing Knick-Uh-Knockers carping as to how we need to get a superstar.  WELL, guess what...Jalen Brunson.

Our All-Star's next revolutionary, evolutionary step?  Helping get RJ & JR, Robinson & Hartenstein, IQ, Hart & DiVincenzo to the next plateau.  More cutters and screens, more motion and movement, less IsoHero ball. 

We have our Captain.  A deeper run into the playoffs beckons.
Title: Re: Training Camp Beckons
Post by: carlos123 on August 09, 2023, 12:26:58 AM
Quote from: chipstern on August 08, 2023, 09:39:39 PM
All the congenitally weeping and wailing Knick-Uh-Knockers carping as to how we need to get a superstar.  WELL, guess what...Jalen Brunson.

Our All-Star's next revolutionary, evolutionary step?  Helping get RJ & JR, Robinson & Hartenstein, IQ, Hart & DiVincenzo to the next plateau.  More cutters and screens, more motion and movement, less IsoHero ball. 

We have our Captain.  A deeper run into the playoffs beckons.

That is all well and good.

Now, all we need is a better coach 😁
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 09, 2023, 04:41:33 AM
Carlos, have faith in the evolution of Thibs and the brilliance of his young staff of ball heads making our players into the most magical versions of themselves.

Plus Brunson and Hart are working right now on stealing the best parts of the Steve Kerr playbook and Grimes has learnt a few of the better counters. Who knows what the fuck RJ is learning with team Canada, but every little bit helps.

Let
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 09, 2023, 12:56:34 PM
Hart with 4 years 81 mil extension. I hope there is team flexibility on the last year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 10, 2023, 07:03:46 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 09, 2023, 12:56:34 PM
Hart with 4 years 81 mil extension. I hope there is team flexibility on the last year.

Team option fourth year of $22.3 in 2027-2028.

Have all our key players, save IQ, tied up, and NO MAX CONTRACTS. 

And all those draft picks.

No short cuts.

No quick fixes.

No shiny objects.

No love from our Mad Dawg.

Oh well. 
Title: 11th Highest Payroll [Our 15 Guaranteed Roster Contracts]
Post by: chipstern on August 10, 2023, 07:54:53 PM


Julius Randle   $28,226,880   
Jalen Brunson   $26,346,666   
RJ Barrett           $23,883,929   
Evan Fournier   $18,857,143   
Mitchell Robinson   $15,681,818   
Josh Hart           $12,960,000            
Donte DiVincenzo   $10,900,000   
Isaiah Hartenstein   $9,245,121   
Immanuel Quickley   $4,171,548   
Quentin Grimes       $2,385,720   
DaQuan Jeffries   $2,066,585   
Isaiah Roby           $2,066,585   
Duane Washington  $2,019,706   
Jericho Sims           $1,927,896   
Miles McBride           $1,836,096
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 11, 2023, 02:20:28 AM
Hoopshype has Washington as a vet minimum deal, but the latest thing I saw had said it was unclear whether he had signed for a vet minimum deal or an exhibit 10 contract garnering him more money if he sticks around for our GLeague squad.

The later makes more sense to me.

Let me know if you have better information on this.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 11, 2023, 02:33:37 AM
70 mil over four years is not outrageous for Hart. The back end, 58 over three, is only Fournier money. If he stays in the rotation it is already an upgrade.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 11, 2023, 02:28:32 PM
Looking for Knicks to lock in IQ next.

Not really seeing an escape hatch for Fournier.

Spurs make sense, and would gladly take back McDermott's ending deal.

Not sure what the holdup is, or why Knickers are reportedly unwilling to attach some second rounders.

Meanwhile...

Charlotte?  Washington?  Oubre.  Not advocating for them.  Just curious why Hornets are dilly dalling.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 11, 2023, 05:17:15 PM
Johnson and Mourning was the last time the Hornets really did anything else.

Evan is now a bum with a bum ankle. We either keep him around for salary ballast in a potential deal or buy him out at this point.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 12, 2023, 02:07:11 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 11, 2023, 05:17:15 PM
Johnson and Mourning was the last time the Hornets really did anything else.

Evan is now a bum with a bum ankle. We either keep him around for salary ballast in a potential deal or buy him out at this point.

Don't really see an exit strategy for EVAN.  Buy out?  Mmmm.  More like a  KEMBA strategy...on ice through February.  Buy out?  Not unless a significant amount of money on the table. 

Extending IQ next up.

Then on to the fall. 
Title: UnTradeAble
Post by: chipstern on August 12, 2023, 02:09:02 PM
🏆🌹🏆

SF: Barrett and Hart

SG: Grimes and DiVincenzo

PG: Brunson, Quickley, McBride

Grimes can  double at SF.

Quickley can double at SG.

DiVicenzo can double at PG.

That makes us 3-Deep at SF, SG, PG

Plus, Thibs won't hesitate to deploy Hart as a small ball  PF, in lieu of Sims or Roby.

Fournier is utterly fucked.

Again San Antonio.

Has two former Knicks.

Doug McDermott and Reggie Bullock.

I could see Thibs liking  Bullock and McBride as break in case of fire players if a rotation player goes down.

Both play DEFENSE.

Who is going to trade for Evan, when they can simply wait for a buyout or the waiver wire.

Fournier is fucked

👻🔊👻


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 12, 2023, 06:21:01 PM
Fournier is making close to 19 million dollars for once having shot the basketball well. He is quite far from fucked, arriving at the end of his generational wealth contract courtesy of the Knicks.

He has tons of options. None of them involve garnering much playing time on the Knicks this season. It may be a bummer for him but somehow he will pull through.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 12, 2023, 07:17:16 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 12, 2023, 06:21:01 PM
Fournier is making close to 19 million dollars for once having shot the basketball well. He is quite far from fucked, arriving at the end of his generational wealth contract courtesy of the Knicks.

He has tons of options. None of them involve garnering much playing time on the Knicks this season. It may be a bummer for him but somehow he will pull through.

Hahaha...
Title: Melo
Post by: chipstern on August 12, 2023, 08:40:39 PM
Watching Melo's 2/23/11 Garden Debut on MSG.

Toney Douglas with a career night.

Melo's 62 point 1/24/14 game to.follow. 
 
Title: Who'd Have Thunk It?
Post by: chipstern on August 13, 2023, 01:48:53 PM
Continuity

Stability

Stable Kultur

Not overpaying for shiny objects

WHO'D HAVE THUNK IT?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 13, 2023, 07:06:01 PM
Toss in a tourney game when the nova corps were all together and see if there are any offensive wrinkles you would like to see the Knicks employ.

We have sixty percent of the ball handling personnel from that squad so we might could work it in. Just sayin.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 13, 2023, 07:35:40 PM
http://youtu.be/H1G2FhZyOFQ (http://youtu.be/H1G2FhZyOFQ)

RJ cookin

We also have Captain America on our squad who helped take down a tough Spain.

Summer Knicks keeping the interest up heading into this season. 
Title: Not so tough
Post by: carlos123 on August 14, 2023, 01:01:25 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 13, 2023, 07:35:40 PM
http://youtu.be/H1G2FhZyOFQ (http://youtu.be/H1G2FhZyOFQ)

RJ cookin

We also have Captain America on our squad who helped take down a tough Spain.

Summer Knicks keeping the interest up heading into this season.

Well, Spain was less tough because their main PG, Ricky Rubio, decided to retire - or retire temporarily to take care of his mental health.

Still a good team though.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 14, 2023, 04:47:20 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 13, 2023, 07:35:40 PM
http://youtu.be/H1G2FhZyOFQ (http://youtu.be/H1G2FhZyOFQ)

RJ cookin

We also have Captain America on our squad who helped take down a tough Spain.

Summer Knicks keeping the interest up heading into this season.

Jalen Brunson had 22 points on 9 of 9 shooting with 4 assists to lead the US to a 98-88 exhibition win over Spain.

Meanwhile, RJ Barrett also dazzled for Canada in a near-perfect performance with 31 points on 13 of 14 shooting with 4 of 4 from 3PT to lead the Canadians in a 113-112 OT win over Germany..

Don't want to get too giddy.

Still, two of our big three maturing and getting better, might be considred encouraging.

Even for the Dawg Pounder

🏆🐕🏆
Title: PJ Washington & JH
Post by: chipstern on August 14, 2023, 04:00:59 PM
Facil, your dream date PJ wants $20 million per.

Charlotte stonewalling.

Cleveland has shown some interest, but no movement.

Meanwhile, James Harden, having baiiled on the Rockets and Nets, is bailing on Philly.  Stand up guy.  Problem is, if he doesn't report, in his jump year, he will not be able to sign as a FA with any team this year, OR NEXT SUMMER.  Clippers were unwilling to pay a King's ransome for JH, and Udoka in Houston said N-O to bringing this no-team player on to his young squad.  Not well played, James.  Hasta La Vista. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 14, 2023, 07:37:52 PM
Nate Knight might make me not care. Roby might do it as well and he is on a regular contract.

20 mil is pretty close to right for PJ. He is a solid dynamic starter in this league. Definitely worth Hart money over the same timeframe.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 14, 2023, 11:28:09 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 14, 2023, 07:37:52 PM
Nate Knight might make me not care. Roby might do it as well and he is on a regular contract.

20 mil is pretty close to right for PJ. He is a solid dynamic starter in this league. Definitely worth Hart money over the same timeframe.

Bringing in Roby and Knight, a couple of hungry 6'8" meat eaters, to compete against each other for 12-15 minutes a night behind Julius?

Well thought out. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 15, 2023, 03:27:34 AM
Jarice Walker is about to become my favorite player. Sucks he is on the Pacers. I just hope they try to fuck around with his money in a couple of years.

I think we should work a buyout with Evan and look at using the trade exception we got from the Toppin deal to lure in a useful vet.

It will not get us PJ, but it will get us something.

There are still some useful guys out there.

Anthony Lamb, Weynen Gabriel and Stanley Johnson can all be had that way. Any one of those is probably an upgrade over our boy Jefferies who I like. We would not have to let anyone go but Fournier to do it.

If I were to pick one, I would go for Johnson. Last year it looked like he has put it together as a player.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 15, 2023, 10:14:03 PM
What is the current line for KP on games played?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 16, 2023, 07:26:01 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 15, 2023, 10:14:03 PM
What is the current line for KP on games played?

Plantar fasciitis

Debilitating condition

Can sneak up on you

They are going to regret signing KP and trading Marcus
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 17, 2023, 01:49:09 AM
Sims is fully guaranteed for next season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 17, 2023, 10:19:38 AM


I would expect to see Thibs relax his rotation rigidity to find minutes at C/PF for Sims and PG for McBride.

I believe part of TT's motivation for a strict 9-Man is that he no
longer trusted and thus had no motivationn to give Reddish, Rose or Fournier minutes save for emergency. 

Ergo, his love for Rose notwithstanding, after Brunson his priorities were Quickley and McBride
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 18, 2023, 05:13:17 AM
James Harden for Zach Lavine works and does not clearly make either team better or worse. Philly would have to send a pick or two with James because of the barrel they are now over.

I am not sure there is any easier deal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 19, 2023, 01:44:35 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 18, 2023, 05:13:17 AM
James Harden for Zach Lavine works and does not clearly make either team better or worse. Philly would have to send a pick or two with James because of the barrel they are now over.

I am not sure there is any easier deal.

Why would  Bulls trade Lavine for Harden.  Younger man, in his prime, for an aging prick. 

Why not try fobbing off  Fournier  to the Heat for Duncan Robinson, for that  matter.

PS: Josh Hart with an incredibly impactful effort without scoring a point. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 19, 2023, 06:27:18 PM
LaVine is a bum. Harden with any kind of supporting cast might at least get you to the second round and you are paying DeRozan and Vucavic so you might as well try to sniff the playoffs and picks from Philly might be valuable along with no longer having to pay LaVine who does not have a great history either staying healthy or winning as many points as he puts up and as fun as he is to watch. Harden also lets you play Pat Williams the way you want Pat Williams to play and Harden will be playing for his Rep and a contract.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 20, 2023, 11:38:45 AM
Harden is about Harden

Period

Wanted out of Houston, Brooklyn, now Philly.  Great talent.  Shifty commitment.  Wouldn't touch him with a 10 foot pole.

Brunson
CP3

Those are winning players.

If I am the Bulls, keeping Lavine over Harden is a no brainer
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 20, 2023, 12:08:24 PM
At the risk of repeating myself.

"OH, THE KNICKS NEED TO GET SUPERSTAR"

What the fuck is Jalen  Brunson
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 20, 2023, 12:09:12 PM
Meanwhile, everyone pisses on RJ, because he is an underachiever still growing into his body and maturing his game and perfecting shooting.

An underachiever basically coming off two seasons of 20ppg, 6 boards and 3 assists.

Thus fair weather friends demean him and amateur GMs include him in every let's give away half the team for Paul George, Zach Lavine, Donovan Mitchell.

RJ is a man on a mission.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 20, 2023, 12:10:38 PM
And don't get me started on Julius, that bum who gives you 25 points, 10 boards, 5 assists a night.

"Oh, he didn't show up in the playoffs against Miami."

FUCK YOU.

Julius gutted his way through the playoffs on an ankle which required serious off season surgery.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 20, 2023, 12:11:28 PM
Any way...

Brunson
RJ
Julius

Big Three

Robinson, Hartenstein, Sims.

Solid center trinity.  Not Wilt or Embid, but boards, D, rim protection.

IQ

Ever maturing sixth man-combo guard

Grimes

Ever maturing wing scorer and defender

Hart, DiVincenzo.

Swiss Army Knife defenders, rebounders,
facilitators, long range sniping wing and combo guard.

Not sexy enough?

FUCK YOU KNICK FANS.

Stability
Continuity
Versatility
Coherence

IVE GROWN ACCUSTOM TO YOUR FACE.

YEARS AS KNICKS AND WITH EACH OTHER, Going On...Their Year

Mitchell, 6
JR, RJ, 5
IQ, 4
Grimes, Sims, McBride  3
Brunson, Hart, Hartenstein, 2
DiVincenzo, 1

Eleven solid players, several still maturing pros, several maturing young vets, arguably one super star, one all star, and one on the cusp of all stardom. 

The grass ain't always greener. 
Title: Obviously
Post by: chipstern on August 20, 2023, 12:14:10 PM
In the unlikely event Embid became available, RJ, Mitchell and multiple #1 picks would be heading out.

Other than Joel, I am indifferent to any other shiny objects phantasies.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 21, 2023, 06:48:48 PM
Please God let us not make that stupid move for Embid.

Mitch, Evan, Hartenstein, a first protected and the two seconds we got for Obi is all I would give and  I would still pass. He is no kind of late round performer and he slows your team down leaving his twenties. He makes even more money in his thirties already breaking down.

No rescuing Philly.

For fucks sake. 

They wasted his window. Let them carry his ass.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 21, 2023, 08:37:19 PM
Dump Dwayne Washington or buyout Evan and sign Usman Garuba asap please.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 22, 2023, 01:33:44 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 21, 2023, 06:48:48 PM
Please God let us not make that stupid move for Embid.

Mitch, Evan, Hartenstein, a first protected and the two seconds we got for Obi is all I would give and  I would still pass. He is no kind of late round performer and he slows your team down leaving his twenties. He makes even more money in his thirties already breaking down.

No rescuing Philly.

For fucks sake. 

They wasted his window. Let them carry his ass.

Word

Sorry, Dawg
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 22, 2023, 02:41:44 AM
No worries.

Dawg days of summer and all.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 22, 2023, 04:18:22 PM
NBA fines Harden $100,000.

Still a tenable 20 ppg, 10 assist man, but no one is giving a 4 year max deal to a 34 year old, who quit on his last three teams [Rockets, Nets, Sixers]
and leveraged trade shakedowns.  And can't be bothered to support the league MVP.

LOSER
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on August 23, 2023, 11:41:46 PM
So I haven't missed much.

We've got the ideal team, a team for the ages, and you know, shit would just be mucked up if we managed to get a league MVP.

That totally makes sense.

And uh RJ Barrett ("he's only xxx years old!!!!!) continues to be Chip's fantasy figure:

"Meanwhile, everyone pisses on RJ, because he is an underachiever still growing into his body and maturing his game and perfecting shooting......An underachiever basically coming off two seasons of 20ppg, 6 boards and 3 assists.....Thus fair weather friends demean him and amateur GMs include him in every let's give away half the team for Paul George, Zach Lavine, Donovan Mitchell......RJ is a man on a mission."

First, fuck you for including Donovan Mitchell there. If you can't see the difference between him and RJ, gotta clean your glasses.

Moreover, you wrote earlier that Grimes is gonna have a breakout year! How the fuck is that happening with RJ always taking a boatload of shots every night? This shit is getting stupid.

I will announce my truth for the 100th time. [1] RJ and Randle and Thibs are a good but not great combo, and will always be more sluggish than elite teams. [2] And.....RJ has NEVER shown he is a clutch player. He had trouble against top defenders when the game is on the line. If he plays like an All-Star in the 2nd quarter, he almost never does in the last 5 minutes, where the dude makes innumerable bonehead plays.

He's a great young man. Maybe on another team, running another offense, RJ can shine. But on this team, he's our ceiling. We can't go beyond his limits.

He's exactly the kind of guy you give up to get a more impactful player and a team that can go deep into the playoffs..
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 24, 2023, 02:00:03 AM
I think the Brunsons, father and son, will have more impact relative to Thibs this year than they had last year. If it happens that might mean different shots in different spots for different players.

I feel we should give that twenty games or so to work itself out before judging how valuable any player is this season. We go into the off-season with the task of adding counters and wrinkles to our sets instead of building them from the ground up as we have had to do through the carousel of the preceding decades.

A trade could happen. Evan is good ballast and we have picks for sweeteners, but there is no reason to hurry at all.

Our current roster by and large is collectively entering its prime. 
Title: Elephant Gun
Post by: chipstern on August 24, 2023, 03:11:19 AM
Enjoyed your post.

Keep 'em coming.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 24, 2023, 08:18:26 AM
Donovan Mitchell is a great player.

After a history of wildly overpaying for shiny objects, Leon &  Company decided to try a more conservative approach. 

Most on this forum had us missing the play in, maybe winning 33 or so games

We WON 47.

Yawn.

Not an RJ Enthusiast.

"Bad fit."

We shall see.

This is a pivotal season for RJ.

I suspect Jalen will have something to do with that.
Title: A Swiss Army Knife For Defensive Coordinator Wink Martendale
Post by: chipstern on August 24, 2023, 08:35:55 PM
Giants got 6'4, 238 pound LB/Corner/Edge Rusher Isaiah Simmons from the Cardinals for a 7th round draft pick.

Tailor Made for defensive coordinator Wink Martendale and his free form, blitz happy defense.  A Bobby Bell scaled Swiss Army Knife.

I wanted us to take him at #4 in 2020.  We took left tackle Andrew Thomas, and the Cardinals selected him at #8.

Hot Damn.  Psyched.  Unless of course you are a Jets fan and who could give a damn.

🌄
Title: Re: A Swiss Army Knife For Defensive Coordinator Wink Martendale
Post by: LarryB! on August 26, 2023, 10:23:44 AM
Quote from: chipstern on August 24, 2023, 08:35:55 PM
Giants got 6'4, 238 pound LB/Corner/Edge Rusher Isaiah Simmons from the Cardinals for a 7th round draft pick.

Tailor Made for defensive coordinator Wink Martendale and his free form, blitz happy defense.  A Bobby Bell scaled Swiss Army Knife.

I wanted us to take him at #4 in 2020.  We took left tackle Andrew Thomas, and the Cardinals selected him at #8.

Hot Damn.  Psyched.  Unless of course you are a Jets fan and who could give a damn.

🌄

Living in DC for last 33 years I hope for the best from both football franchises and of course I
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 26, 2023, 11:02:56 AM
Me, too.

Knicks and Nets as well.

Especially after Yankees & Mets meltdowns.

A positive autumnal vibe
Title: Meanwhile
Post by: chipstern on August 26, 2023, 11:08:28 AM
DVR-d 1995 Knicks v Pacers Game 7 semifinals from NBA TV.


Timely reminder how good Patrick was

And The Willis coming through the tunnel 1970 Game 7.  Knicks safely ahead, fans give Elgin Baylor an ovation on his way to the bench.
Title: PJ Washington
Post by: chipstern on August 26, 2023, 04:09:31 PM
3 X 48 Million
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 26, 2023, 09:20:11 PM
Good deal for Charlotte.
Title: RJ
Post by: chipstern on August 28, 2023, 06:28:12 AM
Sorry to toss cold water on the MegaNeg narratives of the get rid of RJ Elba-ites, but as occurs every off season, Barrett is elevating his game.

Bad fit?

We shall see soon enough.

Meanwhile, playing with great purpose for Canada. If we are getting rid of RJ, probably offloading THIBS as well...

Looking rather remote at the moment.

PS: Facil, how about a Kelly Olnynk phantasy trade?
Title: Jalen & Josh
Post by: chipstern on August 28, 2023, 11:38:35 AM
Bringing it against Greece.
Title: Re: RJ
Post by: facilitatorn on August 28, 2023, 02:47:36 PM
Quote from: chipstern on August 28, 2023, 06:28:12 AM
Sorry to toss cold water on the MegaNeg narratives of the get rid of RJ Elba-ites, but as occurs every off season, Barrett is elevating his game.

Bad fit?

We shall see soon enough.

Meanwhile, playing with great purpose for Canada. If we are getting rid of RJ, probably offloading THIBS as well...

Looking rather remote at the moment.

PS: Facil, how about a Kelly Olnynk phantasy trade?

Sure thing, but this means doing a deal with Danny boy. You remember the DM fun of last summer. Do we even approach that to get Kelly?

Olynynk and Luca Samanic for Fournier and Sims. No picks involved. RealGM says it works.

Mitchell Hartenstein Olnynk
Randle Roby Samanic
RJ Hart Jefferies
Grimes DiVincenzo Washington
Brunson Quickley McBride

It makes us stronger and more flexible in the frontcourt. That is for sure.

Maybe Danny can get a 2027 or later second rounder thrown in or the rights to Jokubitus.
Title: Rokas
Post by: chipstern on August 30, 2023, 06:09:46 AM
Rokas is playing better and better even as we speak.  In fact, he plays Hart and Brunson this Sunday.

No rush to offload him as a throw in.

Of course, with Brunson, IQ, McBride + Grimes and DiVicenzo at guards + RJ and Hart at the wings, things are currently pretty crowded.

Afterthought

RJ, Brunson and Hart playing really well.  Fournier still has chops as a sharpshooter.  Be interesting to see how Evan's situation plays out.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 30, 2023, 05:45:23 PM
Will Evan hustle enough to earn playing time over some of our stalwarts if he is still on the roster?

Good question. There are arguments for and against.

One reason we will probably not be doing any deal for Olnynk is that when you deal with Danny there will be blood.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 30, 2023, 09:13:28 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on August 30, 2023, 05:45:23 PM
Will Evan hustle enough to earn playing time over some of our stalwarts if he is still on the roster?

Good question. There are arguments for and against.

One reason we will probably not be doing any deal for Olnynk is that when you deal with Danny there will be blood.

HA
Title: MSG Reruns
Post by: chipstern on August 31, 2023, 08:12:21 PM
Watched Game 7, 1970.  Remarkable.

And from April, 2023, Knicks defeat NBA  champion Nuggets in a terrific game at the Garden.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 01, 2023, 02:05:23 AM
Hoping for an all North American final, USA vs Canada.
Title: Oh, Canada
Post by: chipstern on September 01, 2023, 04:44:51 PM
CANADA

Just lost.  Off game from RJ.

Meanwhile, too bad Kiid isn't here to scoff at my enthusiasm for Jokubaitis.

19 points on 6-8, 3-3 from trey and 6 assists.

💣💣💣
Title: Re: Oh, Canada
Post by: chipstern on September 03, 2023, 06:40:28 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 01, 2023, 04:44:51 PM

CANADA

Just lost.  Off game from RJ.

Meanwhile, too bad Kiid isn't here to scoff at my enthusiasm for Jokubaitis.

19 points on 6-8, 3-3 from trey and 6 assists.

💣💣💣

Rokas with good facilitation and defense, as Lithuania defeats USA.

Former Knicks Brazdeikis and Kuzminskas chipping in.  Vucevic a dude.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 03, 2023, 08:49:57 PM
I like all those guys. Did Rokas and Brunson meet heads up and check each other or did Kerr try to hide Brunson on Iggy?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 03, 2023, 09:09:08 PM
Rokas had to guard Jalen but it was usually Bridges or sometimes Edwards on Jokubaitis.

Too much Kuzminskas.

Lotta current and former Knicks played.


Brunson
Portis
Hart
Brazdeikis
Jokubaitis
Kuzminskas
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 03, 2023, 09:13:41 PM
The game was fun.  Lithuania could not miss from three in the first half.  But the run that Team USA made in the third was truly dominant.   Overall good game from Brunson.

Italy awaits.  We might get bounced.


Title: Avatar
Post by: carlos123 on September 04, 2023, 12:11:51 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 03, 2023, 08:49:57 PM
I like all those guys. Did Rokas and Brunson meet heads up and check each other or did Kerr try to hide Brunson on Iggy?

Nice avatar, Fac.

Chamaco is not gonna like it. Where is he, back in Mexico?

PS. I dont think Italy is going to bounce us. OTOH, Canada did bounce Spain.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 04, 2023, 03:57:00 AM
Thanks Carlos

I got to look for the replay. Knick on Knick warfare sounds Hella fun.
Title: Louse Klub
Post by: chipstern on September 04, 2023, 07:04:01 PM
Whore Das Lieders Uv Der Bund
That's Anti-Dem-Oc-RA-Ceeeee
H-I-T
L-E-R
T-R-U-M-Peeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

(https://cdn5.f-cdn.com/contestentries/953623/19786586/58a640b2c9ff1_thumbCard.jpg)

(https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/d6101e77-2da2-462e-bbd9-a49a30ef56d9/dtmm4q-fb5e29f9-9fa3-4cab-aa8b-1a0874574dd1.jpg/v1/fill/w_600,h_928,q_75,strp/adolf_hitler_as_a_duck_by_shenziholic_dtmm4q-fullview.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7ImhlaWdodCI6Ijw9OTI4IiwicGF0aCI6IlwvZlwvZDYxMDFlNzctMmRhMi00NjJlLWJiZDktYTQ5YTMwZWY1NmQ5XC9kdG1tNHEtZmI1ZTI5ZjktOWZhMy00Y2FiLWFhOGItMWEwODc0NTc0ZGQxLmpwZyIsIndpZHRoIjoiPD02MDAifV1dLCJhdWQiOlsidXJuOnNlcnZpY2U6aW1hZ2Uub3BlcmF0aW9ucyJdfQ.Lj-eZvsXZCGveJUGKKQzB3gX8elCIYLg1Eb0HhF6aAU)

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 06, 2023, 05:08:28 PM
US and Canada in the semis. Canucks pulled past Luka and sent him home. RJ put it together and carried some load
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 08, 2023, 12:42:54 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 06, 2023, 05:08:28 PM
US and Canada in the semis. Canucks pulled past Luka and sent him home. RJ put it together and carried some load

Germany beats USA

Latvia downs Canada
Title: FIBA
Post by: carlos123 on September 08, 2023, 04:16:31 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 08, 2023, 12:42:54 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 06, 2023, 05:08:28 PM
US and Canada in the semis. Canucks pulled past Luka and sent him home. RJ put it together and carried some load

Germany beats USA

Latvia downs Canada

Not Latvia. It was Serbia.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 08, 2023, 09:54:19 PM
We get RJ, JB, and Hart back with no reported mishaps and some more ups and downs to mull over as they hit the beach and the lab.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 08, 2023, 09:54:45 PM
And Evan. I almost forgot about Evan.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 08, 2023, 10:13:26 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 08, 2023, 09:54:45 PM
And Evan. I almost forgot about Evan.

So did Thibs
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 09, 2023, 06:27:04 AM
Quote from: chipstern on September 08, 2023, 10:13:26 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 08, 2023, 09:54:45 PM
And Evan. I almost forgot about Evan.

So did Thibs

Why do you think that is, Chip?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 10, 2023, 01:42:42 PM
RJ has much room for growth. Better defense. Plus he needs to perfect a pull-up pop and shoot off the dribble from 12-15 feet, which would make his drives to the rack even more effective. And to improve his efficiency, doing more with less shots, while keeping the ball moving around the horn. Woth noting, that over the past few seasons, while still room for growth, RJ has improved his three point shooting, FT shooting and while damn near unstoppable going to the rack off of his left hand, HIS STRONG HAND, has also made going with his right hand a deadly option. More pointedly, not simply offering a nightly expectation of 20-6-3, but has a soul of fucking ice and NO REAR VIEW MIRROR. He can have a sucky first half and come back strong in the second half. He does not linger on his faux pas, but keeps his eye on the prize. PLUS, He's A Solid Citizen, With An Irrefutable Work Effect And Never Acts Out Like A Damn Fool. THERE'S A GOOD REASON Leon didn't want to send him to Utah. But Knicks haters, frozen in time from 20 years of frustration, cry from hunger with a holiday ham under each arm. THIS TEAM HAS A LONG WAY TO GO, but we have come a long way in the past three seasons under Thibs, for all his stubborn foibles. Jalen, Julius, RJ, Mitchell, Josh, IQ, Grimes, Hartenstein, McBride, Sims [DiVincenzo]...that's a solid core going forward, now, with one, two, three, four seasons of playing together, actual continuity in an established system. Knicks fans have earned a right to be frustrated, FOR SURE, but haters begone.
Title: Why Ask Why
Post by: chipstern on September 10, 2023, 01:45:08 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 09, 2023, 06:27:04 AM
Quote from: chipstern on September 08, 2023, 10:13:26 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 08, 2023, 09:54:45 PM
And Evan. I almost forgot about Evan.

So did Thibs

Why do you think that is, Chip?

Brunson, IQ, McBride
Grimes, DiVincenzo, IQ [Fournier]
RJ, Hart, Grimes [Fournier]

Too many comprable offensive options with superior defensive skills to fir Thibs system. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 10, 2023, 07:20:12 PM
Ding ding ding. We have a winner.

Notice how everyone listed ahead of Fournier is also younger than he is? I think that means you do not want to wait for him to develop much more than he has to this point.

RJ is also a baby in basketball terms. I expect him to keep turning corners and smoothing rough edges through this season and the next. Then we will be entering the evaluation stage for his next contract.

I really do hope he reads the forum and listens to your advice.
Title: Rockets Red Glare
Post by: chipstern on September 13, 2023, 07:37:16 PM
Kevin Porter Jr. punched out and strangled his girlfriend, breaking neck vertebrae.

Flushing his career right down the toilet. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 14, 2023, 05:51:50 AM
Some people are just too fucking stupid to be giving millions of dollars to year after year.

I will say the bar has been moving in the right direction in terms of what has become seriously and clearly over the line.

Marbury and his Escalade escapade would be an ender in this environment pretty directly. Look at the Josh Primo parallels to give an example.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 14, 2023, 06:00:56 AM
The Magic are bringing Mac McClung to camp. It should be a fun camp to say the least. Will the Wagners rub it in and how is Paolo gonna feel about it?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 15, 2023, 10:07:23 AM
Where does Cam Payne end up.

Does Thibs let Roby compete with Hart for 15 a night behind Julius?
Title: Free Agents
Post by: chipstern on September 15, 2023, 04:32:04 PM
Taj Gibson reups with the Wizards

Usman Garuba signs a two-way with the Warriors
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 15, 2023, 06:32:22 PM
Good pickup by GS.

We have eleven players who either make more and or have deals and options that extend past the one year minimum.

Charlie Brown
Isiah Roby
Duane Washington
Dequan Jefferies
Deuce McBride
Jacob Toppin
Dymtro Skapintsev

Are all on fully or partially guaranteed minimum deals for this season only.

4 maintain their status and 3 move on, possibly to Westchester.

My favorites are Roby, Brown, Jefferies and McBride. My secret hope is that Toppin beats out either Jefferies or Brown to make the team and stick. Pretty sure he is not good enough to make it happen yet. 

Depth is too much for Dmytro or Duane to overcome, IMO

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 15, 2023, 06:39:18 PM
If we take Brown, Roby, and Deuce, we can take a 2 for 1 for Evan which may open up new avenues.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 15, 2023, 06:46:19 PM
Okoro and Rubio for Fournier, understanding Rubio is not playing. Cleveland sends a small pick as well because we opened a roster spot.

Mitch Hartenstein Sims
Randle Okoro Roby
RJ Hart Brown
Grimes DiVincenzo
Brunson Quickley McBride     Rubio

I think that is a better team
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 15, 2023, 07:18:08 PM
Just signed Arciadocono
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 15, 2023, 07:19:01 PM
Apparently Leon isn't preparing a package for Giannis or Joel or Donovan, but for Jay Wright.  A package comprised of Villanova Alumnus.  Too bad we didn't have a draft pick to nail SF/PF Cam Whitmore.  Thibs may not be on the clock, but he's been given the players he wants, now let's see if we can make the next step.  No backsliding for TT.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 15, 2023, 07:20:12 PM
FORWARDS: Randle, Roby, Sims, Knight
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 16, 2023, 10:58:43 AM
Quote from: chipstern on September 15, 2023, 07:18:08 PM
Just signed Arciadocono

Skapintsev is off the carousel as a result. He is Westchester bound unless he gets a better offer somewhere else.

Mitch Hartenstein Sims
Randle Roby Fournier 
RJ Hart Brown
Grimes DiVincenzo Archi
Brunson Quickley McBride

Dequan Jefferies has a slim chance of beating out Charlie Brown.

Knight Windler and Martin probably stick as two way players
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 16, 2023, 01:46:15 PM
Fournier behind Randle and Roby?

An act of creative kindness.

When Portland and Miami work out their deal, might we see Evan attached and redirected somewhere as a salary piece.

PS: Why'd Spurs waive Payne?  An act of kindness?  Might end up on the T-Wolves
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 18, 2023, 05:01:24 PM
Randle walks away from CCA, seeking to representation to take him in a new direction.

Randle and Evan for Siakam and Thad Young? The numbers work.

I hope we would say yes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 18, 2023, 08:05:09 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 18, 2023, 05:01:24 PM
Randle walks away from CCA, seeking to representation to take him in a new direction.

Randle and Evan for Siakam and Thad Young? The numbers work.

I hope we would say yes.

Just STOP

Title: Breaking
Post by: chipstern on September 18, 2023, 08:06:00 PM
Kelly Oubre to Philly
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 19, 2023, 07:36:16 AM
Quote from: chipstern on September 18, 2023, 08:05:09 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 18, 2023, 05:01:24 PM
Randle walks away from CCA, seeking to representation to take him in a new direction.

Randle and Evan for Siakam and Thad Young? The numbers work.

I hope we would say yes.

Just STOP

Randle changed agents because he loves Leon and Thibs and wants to get closer to them.

Randle changed agents because he got paid under the table.

Randle changed agents because he thinks the Hart extension and DiVincenzo signing blew up any chance the Knicks had for a bright future.

Maybe this tea leaf signifies nothing at all.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 19, 2023, 01:01:19 PM
Slow news day
Title: Facil-I-Tating
Post by: chipstern on September 20, 2023, 09:32:57 PM
What, no Lillard Phantasy Trades? 

Wonder where he ends up.  Heat no longer a given.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 25, 2023, 04:54:28 PM
Adrian Wojnarowski- ESPN Sources say The Knicks promoted Gersson Rosas to Senior VP of Basketball Operations. Rosas, who had been a team consultant for past year, will be among organizations elder decision-makers now. He was previously Timberwolves president, Mavericks GM and a Rockets executive.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 25, 2023, 09:45:22 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 25, 2023, 04:54:28 PM
Adrian Wojnarowski- ESPN Sources say The Knicks promoted Gersson Rosas to Senior VP of Basketball Operations. Rosas, who had been a team consultant for past year, will be among organizations elder decision-makers now. He was previously Timberwolves president, Mavericks GM and a Rockets executive.

That ex Rocket PF/C you wanted us to sign just became a Steve Kerr conscript. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 26, 2023, 01:32:28 AM
Everyone knows the Warriors are a terribly run organization that cannot identify talent and as a result never win anything.

Based on that, we probably dodged a bullet sitting on our hands
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 26, 2023, 12:50:51 PM
I want Lillard to wind up in Orlando. Of all the destinations, it would send the most durable talent to the west, stopping a future dynasty in the making while also sticking a thumb in the eye of those lovely boys in south beach.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 26, 2023, 02:10:51 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 26, 2023, 12:50:51 PM
I want Lillard to wind up in Orlando. Of all the destinations, it would send the most durable talent to the west, stopping a future dynasty in the making while also sticking a thumb in the eye of those lovely boys in south beach.

True

But Raptors can offer OG, Trent and Grady Dick.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 27, 2023, 04:10:47 AM
Three wings for Dame. Interesting.

I raise you Fultz, Carter, Franz Wagner and Anthony Black.

Which team has better picks might also play a factor
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 27, 2023, 03:14:48 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 27, 2023, 04:10:47 AM
Three wings for Dame. Interesting.

I raise you Fultz, Carter, Franz Wagner and Anthony Black.

Which team has better picks might also play a factor

DONE DEAL

WOW

Damian Lillard will be traded to the Milwaukee Bucks as part of a three-team deal including the Phoenix Suns, according to Adrian Wojnarowski. The Portland Trail Blazers will receive Jrue Holiday, Deandre Ayton, Toumani Camara, a 2029 unprotected Milwaukee first-round pick, and unprotected Milwaukee swap rights in 2028 and 2030 in the deal while Phoenix lands Jusuf Nurkic, Grayson Allen, Nassir Little and Keon Johnson
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 27, 2023, 03:21:19 PM
If Dame and GA stay healthy and get along they could be as good as they generally are with GA.

Portland clearly won the deal. The West is becoming more interesting
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 27, 2023, 03:32:53 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 27, 2023, 03:21:19 PM
If Dame and GA stay healthy and get along they could be as good as they generally are with GA.

Portland clearly won the deal. The West is becoming more interesting

Good things come to those who wait.

Dame should be happier in Milwaukee than with Miami.

Meanwhile, Leon sits tight, monitoring Joel and Donovan.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 27, 2023, 04:09:17 PM
Historical parallels anyone?

Alcindor & Oscar Robertson

Giannis & Lillard
Title: The GOAL Is to win an NBA title, remember?
Post by: lesterluv on September 27, 2023, 04:19:54 PM
and the Bucks just became the odds-on favorite for good f'ng reason.

Portland won the deal??? LMAO, lol, lol, lol.....



*** guess if you're a pick fetishist and depends who they get for the declining Jrue (one of my abs faves...) But the Bucks just stuck DAME next to GA, ffs....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 27, 2023, 04:25:22 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on September 27, 2023, 04:19:54 PM
Portland won the deal??? LMAO, lol, lol, lol.....

Ayton for Dame?

Not too shabby. 

Meanwhile, could Jrue be rerouted?

Miami?

Philly?
Title: Re: The GOAL Is to win an NBA title, remember?
Post by: chipstern on September 27, 2023, 04:27:31 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on September 27, 2023, 04:19:54 PM
Portland won the deal??? LMAO, lol, lol, lol.....



*** guess if you're a pick fetishist and depends who they get for the declining Jrue (one of my abs faves...) But the Bucks just stuck DAME next to GA, ffs....

Jrue could have been a Knick

But Donnie Douche selected Jordan Hill, who lasted 24 games.
Title: Re: The GOAL Is to win an NBA title, remember?
Post by: lesterluv on September 27, 2023, 04:28:28 PM
Quote from: chipstern on September 27, 2023, 04:27:31 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on September 27, 2023, 04:19:54 PM
Portland won the deal??? LMAO, lol, lol, lol.....



*** guess if you're a pick fetishist and depends who they get for the declining Jrue (one of my abs faves...) But the Bucks just stuck DAME next to GA, ffs....

Jrue could have been a Knick

But Donnie Douche selected Jordan Hill, who.lasted 24 games.


He is a Knick every night once I drink myself to sleep.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 27, 2023, 05:20:32 PM
Milwaukee gave up very little to get Dame.   Yeah they lose Jrue, but they can't have both Jrue and Dame.   Aside from that what did they give up?  ONE unprotected pick and two unprotected swaps?   Those swaps have a chance to be worthless.   They probably convey but not necessarily.   They stole Dame.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 27, 2023, 05:22:40 PM
Guess we have no shot at Giannis anymore.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on September 27, 2023, 05:38:29 PM
Quote from: Kam on September 27, 2023, 05:20:32 PM
Milwaukee gave up very little to get Dame.   Yeah they lose Jrue, but they can't have both Jrue and Dame.   Aside from that what did they give up?  ONE unprotected pick and two unprotected swaps?   Those swaps have a chance to be worthless.   They probably convey but not necessarily.   They stole Dame.

Yep, given the relative strength of each franchise's leadership, odds are pretty decent the Bucks picks will be higher, not lower, and thus unswappable. And, yes, trade makes less likely that Giannis will have thoughts of leaving, say for us...obviously a huge win for Milwaukee.

Health of protagonists will play a role in everything that follows, but that is always the case and doesn't affect the Bucks more than anyone else.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 27, 2023, 07:13:19 PM
Quote from: Kam on September 27, 2023, 05:22:40 PM
Guess we have no shot at Giannis anymore.

Giannis has had Holiday making life difficult for the guard in front of him. That will now be done by Dame and who? Allen also went in the deal.

Portland has Scoot and Drue in the backcourt, Ayton and Grant up front and Sharpe as swing. Fun.

Is Phoenix gonna start Biyombo? They shed a grump and added depth behind their big three.

Most satisfyingly, we kept our hands clean and the Raptors have not addressed their overlapping talent and roster imbalance
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 27, 2023, 10:20:10 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 27, 2023, 07:13:19 PM
Quote from: Kam on September 27, 2023, 05:22:40 PM
Guess we have no shot at Giannis anymore.

Giannis has had Holiday making life difficult for the guard in front of him. That will now be done by Dame and who? Allen also went in the deal.

Portland has Scoot and Drue in the backcourt, Ayton and Grant up front and Sharpe as swing. Fun.

Is Phoenix gonna start Biyombo? They shed a grump and added depth behind their big three.

Most satisfyingly, we kept our hands clean and the Raptors have not addressed their overlapping talent and roster imbalance

Now Vaccaro in the POST is calling for Leon to trade Fournier, Grimes, Hartenstein, Jeffries, Roby and multiple #1s for Holiday.

I love Jrue, but this is beyond moronic.

Jrue is due a player option for $39 million next summer.  He is 33.

Also, every click bait douche bag has us trading Hartenstein.

WTF?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on September 28, 2023, 11:19:31 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 27, 2023, 07:13:19 PM
Quote from: Kam on September 27, 2023, 05:22:40 PM
Guess we have no shot at Giannis anymore.

Giannis has had Holiday making life difficult for the guard in front of him. That will now be done by Dame and who? Allen also went in the deal.
 


Kind of crazy that Gobert, Smart and Jaren Jackson have DPY awards and Jrue doesn't, he's been a superior defensive player. That game-changing.

But....definitely didn't look totally the same in last year's playoffs, the inevitable starting to happen, perhaps. He's already on record as thinking about his retirement and not wanting another contract.

Bucks have several other all-defensive team level players..that is not their PRIMARY need. You can pick up a decent defender to partner up with Dame in any Walmart, but you can't get a top-75 scorer who will absolutely destroy you when you collapse on Giannis, take the ball out of GA's hands for as long as you need, and totally change up the Bucs often stultifyingly-simplistic end games.

Marvelous trade for Milwaukee. By no means risk-free, but definitely could be a championship-turn, franchise-saving move. If Middleton is back to form, I can see no other favorite. Health determines everything as always, for them, the Lakers, the Suns, the Warriors, the Celtics, the Nuggets, everyone.

Jrue will not play a minute next to Scoot btw. Will he play a minute for us? Well if we weren't willing to give up a pile of assets for a 25-year-old scorer, I don't see why we'd do it for a 33 year old whose shot disappears in the playoffs...(well, the bulk of them, he can certainly make a clutch one or two), but he is surely not our primary need.
Title: Primary Needs?
Post by: chipstern on September 28, 2023, 02:12:12 PM
Excactly, DAWG.

The idea as floated by media hacks wherein we could give up Donovan Mitchell assets for Jrue Holiday is just mind numbingly thick.

Again, Leon is going to remain patient.

Embid and/or Mitchell could both be in play over the next year or so.

Clearly, Knicks are going to keep their powder dry.

Mitchell, as you point out, in his prime, Jrue on the back end of a fine career.

PRIMARY NEEDS?

Signifant development from RJ and Grimes and IQ, consistency and a more heady approach from Julius, more ball movement and motion and screens and cutting from Thibs' coach on the floor.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 28, 2023, 05:08:53 PM
Quote from: Kam on September 27, 2023, 05:20:32 PM
Milwaukee gave up very little to get Dame.   Yeah they lose Jrue, but they can't have both Jrue and Dame.   Aside from that what did they give up?  ONE unprotected pick and two unprotected swaps?   Those swaps have a chance to be worthless.   They probably convey but not necessarily.   They stole Dame.

Jrue & Dame salary match more of less. 

Phoenix's participation, and desire to cut bait with Ayton, who will be the main man on Portland, in lieu of a role player like Nurkik, facilitated the deal. 

Teams pursuing Jrue, will need to find a third and  fourth team to make it work. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 30, 2023, 01:46:15 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on September 27, 2023, 07:13:19 PM
Quote from: Kam on September 27, 2023, 05:22:40 PM
Guess we have no shot at Giannis anymore.

Giannis has had Holiday making life difficult for the guard in front of him. That will now be done by Dame and who? Allen also went in the deal.
Most satisfyingly, we kept our hands clean and the Raptors have not addressed their overlapping talent and roster imbalance

I can see a universe where the Knicks - still dogged in their pursuit of the Greek - would go after Jrue Holiday.   I've been warming to the idea of a Jalen/Jrue backcourt.  Obviously the cost has to be worth it, but the Knicks have the assets and the motivation to keep Giannis is their sights.
Title: Knicks Dodge A Bullet
Post by: chipstern on October 01, 2023, 05:18:17 PM
Love Jrue, but made no sense for a two guard next to Jalen...we have Grimes, IQ, DiVincenzo.

BESIDES...

Celtics just traded Robert Williams, Brogdan and two #1 picks for Holiday.
Title: Waiver Wire
Post by: chipstern on October 01, 2023, 05:20:26 PM
Think Thibs might have the night sweats for Reggie Bullock?

Bucks signed Cam Payne.   
Title: 2024
Post by: chipstern on October 01, 2023, 07:44:13 PM
Leon playing the long game?

OG Abunoby has a player option in the summer of 2024.

He will be 27 and is going to be an UFA.

Hello?
Title: Re: Knicks Dodge A Bullet
Post by: lesterluv on October 01, 2023, 08:30:11 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 01, 2023, 05:18:17 PM
Love Jrue, but made no sense for a two guard next to Jalen...we have Grimes, IQ, DiVincenzo.

BESIDES...

Celtics just traded Robert Williams, Brogdan and two #1 picks for Holiday.

Love Jrue, Celtics are a better team for the trade, fits like a glove, kind of had to make it after the Bucks did their thing....BUT, I think they paid the steeper price. Dame and Jrue are almost exactly the same age, but way more NBA miles on Jrue's legs. Three more seasons, more minutes, more games, long playoff runs while the Blazers were tanking and Dame was sitting. Will be fun to watch those guys battle it out. Glad we stayed pat.
Title: The Long Game
Post by: chipstern on October 01, 2023, 09:32:56 PM
Again, Dallas is not going to be a lottery team.

So thats two #1 picks.

God forbid Detroit and Washington improve enough that their #1 picks convey.  That's two more #1
picks.

Hmmmm.

Title: Re: 2024
Post by: chipstern on October 02, 2023, 03:51:29 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 01, 2023, 07:44:13 PM
Leon playing the long game?

OG Abunoby has a player option in the summer of 2024.

He will be 27 and is going to be an UFA.

Hello?

OG indicated in an online item that he wants to remain a Raptor and loves Toronto. 
Title: Five
Post by: chipstern on October 02, 2023, 04:04:46 PM
No surprises

Robinson
Randle
Barrett
Grimes
Brunson

Next men up?
Suspicions

Hartenstein
*****
Hart
DiVicienzo
Quickley

***** [Sims, Roby, Knight...Hart/Barrett]
Title: Celtics v Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 02, 2023, 06:46:01 PM
We meet next Monday.
Title: Reggie Bullock
Post by: chipstern on October 03, 2023, 03:20:12 PM
Signs with Houston, who have banishedserial thug Kevin Porter.
Title: Charleston Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 05, 2023, 06:59:56 PM
https://www.postandcourier.com/sports/citadel/nba-new-york-knicks-training-camp-citadel-charleston-sc/article_038d21a6-62e1-11ee-95ee-33aca3b75838.html (https://www.postandcourier.com/sports/citadel/nba-new-york-knicks-training-camp-citadel-charleston-sc/article_038d21a6-62e1-11ee-95ee-33aca3b75838.html)

Some nice quotes from Thibs and Julius.  Fluff piece, but sometimes you need the fluff to feel the vibes.
Title: Where are the minutes going to come from?
Post by: Kam on October 06, 2023, 01:20:06 PM
Total possible rotation minutes per non-OT game = 240

C: 48 minutes split between iHart and Mitch. 28 for Mitch 20 for Hart. Fun fact iHart played more total minutes than Mitch last season
PF: Randle averages 35, 36 minutes per game as a Knickerbocker.   That leaves about 12-13 minutes for RJ, Hart, and even Sims to split to say nothing of Roby. Say 4 minutes each to RJ, Hart, and Sims.
F: RJ will get 24 minutes as a starter plus his backup PF minutes.  That leaves 24 between DDV and Hart to split. Say 12 and 12.
SG: Grimes starts and plays 30. Leaving 18 mps to split between IQ, Hart and DDV. Say 6 each.
PG: Brunson starts and pays 36.  IQ gets the remaining 12.  Sorry Deuce.


Total minutes

Brunson 36 projected mpg (last season: 35 mpg)
Randle 36 projected mpg (last season: 35.5 mpg)
Grimes 30 projected mpg (last season: 29.5 mpg)
RJ 28 projected mpg (last season: 34 mpg)
Mitch 28 projected mpg (last season: 27 mpg)
iHart 20 projected mpg (last season: 20 mpg)
Hart 22 projected mpg (last season: 30 mpg)
IQ 18 projected mpg (last season: 29 mpg)
DDV 18 projected mpg (last season - 26.5 mpg)

The rest: 4 projected mpg (Sims, Roby, Duece, Roby get one minute each ). Setting the deep bench aside for the moment, we have 4 rotation players who will be taking major haircuts to their minutes allocations.



I question the wisdom of what the Knicks are doing, having to extend IQ and not having a clear plan to play the 6th man of the year runner up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 06, 2023, 04:19:37 PM
This is ALL speculation.

And Thibs setting the rules is empowered to modify the rules.

Also, given the problems we had with injuries to Jalen and Julius, I don't think 36 minutes a night are set in stone.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 07, 2023, 02:25:39 AM
I hope Thibs can avoid grinding anyone into dust until mid August at least. We have the depth to pursue saner paths to a good number of victories
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 07, 2023, 08:12:04 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 07, 2023, 02:25:39 AM
I hope Thibs can avoid grinding anyone into dust until mid August at least. We have the depth to pursue saner paths to a good number of victories

Be interesting to see if Fournier can make a case for himself.  Suspect defensively, but a talented offensive player, and it's not as if we can't use shooting.
Title: The Balls Of Jericho
Post by: chipstern on October 08, 2023, 11:46:13 AM
Looks like Sims is going to get a long look at PF, situationally speaking.

Hope we get to see what Roby might bring. Has the size and can shoot.

Fournier battling for a fair shot.

Not as if we couldn't use a 6'7" wing who can shoot and create off the bounce.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 08, 2023, 01:30:37 PM
If Evan can match the two way energy of Barrett, Hart, Grimes or DiVincenzo he could probably earn a good role.

I want to see what the fuss is about with Sims.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 08, 2023, 02:23:23 PM


Brunson 36 projected mpg (last season: 35 mpg)
Randle 36 projected mpg (last season: 35.5 mpg)
Grimes 30 projected mpg (last season: 29.5 mpg)
RJ 28 projected mpg (last season: 34 mpg)
Mitch 28 projected mpg (last season: 27 mpg)
iHart 20 projected mpg (last season: 20 mpg)
Hart 22 projected mpg (last season: 30 mpg)
IQ 18 projected mpg (last season: 29 mpg)
DDV 18 projected mpg (last season - 26.5 mpg)

Quote from: chipstern on October 06, 2023, 04:19:37 PM
This is ALL speculation.

And Thibs setting the rules is empowered to modify the rules.

Also, given the problems we had with injuries to Jalen and Julius, I don't think 36 minutes a night are set in stone.

Yes it is my speculation, but it is based on the math.   Thibs might take 5 minutes away from Julius and Brunson each to save them wear and tear, but that still only frees up 10 more minutes i'm giving to IQ and RJ.    You still are left with the trio of IQ Hart and DDV with fewer minutes than they'd like. Maybe the plan is for them to soothe themselves over lack of time with their new contracts$.


Brunson 31 projected mpg (last season: 35 mpg)
Randle 31 projected mpg (last season: 35.5 mpg)
Grimes 30 projected mpg (last season: 29.5 mpg)
RJ 33 projected mpg (last season: 34 mpg)
Mitch 28 projected mpg (last season: 27 mpg)
iHart 20 projected mpg (last season: 20 mpg)
Hart 22 projected mpg (last season: 30 mpg)
IQ 23 projected mpg (last season: 29 mpg)
DDV 18 projected mpg (last season - 26.5 mpg)


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 08, 2023, 02:49:41 PM
That last minute distribution sounds like the move until Christmas and health allowing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 10, 2023, 09:19:53 AM
Your minutes make sense, Kam.

Think we might see a rollback on some of RJ's minutes in IQ's  direction.   He wss looking impressive in the midrange gzme.

Based on last night, thinking Thibs is looking for ways to squeeze some minutes for Jericho and Deuce.

Fournier still looks to be squeezed but was glad to see him get some daylight and how his team mates responded to him. 
Title: Fournier
Post by: chipstern on October 15, 2023, 06:19:42 PM
Playing well.

Best 3 point shooter.

What's a coach to do?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 16, 2023, 07:36:25 PM
Shoots well but still provides a deadly awful plus-minus. This might be a job for the GM.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 17, 2023, 11:05:31 PM
Grimes and McBride and Donte some minutes. 

Roby stroked a few threes  and had a physical presence
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 18, 2023, 12:34:29 PM
got to say, oh never mind, the truncate phenomena in full effect and just too hard to post
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 18, 2023, 02:08:53 PM
It looks like the rotation is staying pretty solid. I hope Thibs shelves the Sims at PF experiment in favor of playing Roby behind Randle.

The surprising competition is in the backup PG category where Deuce seems to be playing up to Quickley while Quickley is playing down to Deuce. It will be interesting to watch.

Mitch Hartenstein
Randle Roby
RJ Hart
Grimes DiVincenzo
Brunson ?

I do not mind going 11 deep to start.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 18, 2023, 05:53:39 PM
And we just waived Roby and Jaylen Martin. SMH.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 18, 2023, 06:09:08 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 18, 2023, 05:53:39 PM
And we just waived Roby and Jaylen Martin. SMH.

Perhaps they are resigned on Exhibit 10 contracts.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 18, 2023, 10:23:09 PM
Pick time

There is a book on Brunson written in the Miami series and the league tends to take note.

We regress

35 wins.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 18, 2023, 10:37:02 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on October 18, 2023, 12:34:29 PM
got to say, oh never mind, the truncate phenomena in full effect and just too hard to post

Come on, I'll bite. What were you going to say?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 18, 2023, 10:39:27 PM
What was it, a year or two back when I couldn't get the forum on Chrome anymore. Safari would work.

And now the Google gods seem to be letting me in via Chrome again.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 19, 2023, 01:41:21 AM
Wrote a longer message (of Knick despair), but when I post, half of it disappears.

No idea why. There are no em-dashes or any possible trigger that I can find.

Has this been happening to anyone else? Suggestions?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 19, 2023, 09:43:29 AM
Quote from: elephant on October 18, 2023, 10:37:02 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on October 18, 2023, 12:34:29 PM
got to say, oh never mind, the truncate phenomena in full effect and just too hard to post

Come on, I'll bite. What were you going to say?

Some blather about not liking "sit the stars" lineups in preseason games.

Understand needing to see different players in extended minutes, but would seem to be more insightful if it wasn't 5 scrubs at once.

No great loss to the forum for sure.

(posting mobile never works for me, Safari on Mac cooperative lately)

(preseason is just preseason, but has me a little unsettled, not seeing the things I would think need to happen if we were to build on last year, but just preseason, so....)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 19, 2023, 06:53:53 PM
Look. I'm a Knicks freak. Saw pretty much every game the last few years.

And now we seem to have a pretty solid team.

But why is that word "solid" so fucking dreary? Why is this the first time in years I'm not jazzed about the season starting?

It's a genuine question. Not rhetorical.

You know my bias. I think the Thibs+RJ+Randle consortium must be broken up. They have a ceiling and they’ve already reached it. And yeah, I thought it was the perfect time to trade RJ, but no deal materialized. And now we’ve got a solid but wildly predictable coach who seem destined to extinguish any joy I feel from the team. And while I’ve been delighted to see Brunson onboard, he ain’t Jesus and I suspect there’s only so much this team can do differently.

So maybe that’s it. Or some of it. I don’t know. Maybe I’ll be surprised. I’d love to be surprised.

But I’m not holding my breath.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 20, 2023, 02:18:30 AM
To be fair, we tend to look bad until we stop playing Evan.

Donte looks to be a solid boost to our squad.

My Roby hopes have now transferred to Jacob Toppin. We need an athlete who covers ground among our forwards.

Efficiency and clarity of purpose are going to be key factors. It would really help to get off to a strong start.
Title: Weary Or Dreary
Post by: chipstern on October 20, 2023, 04:36:54 PM
Not feeling it, huh, Elephant.
Title: Roster Moves
Post by: chipstern on October 20, 2023, 04:40:11 PM
Must say I am baffled by the Roby move, and other deck chair reshuffling.

Wondering if this betokens some more significant move.

Wonder if we should read anything into the lack of movement on the IQ front. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 20, 2023, 06:41:26 PM
You know the chestnut about defining insanity as doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results?

This is how I'm feeling. I've seen these dudes. They're good. I like them. I just don't see how they make a leap.

I'm not advocating making trades just for the sake of making trades. I suspect we tried for deals and failed to get them. And so it goes.

We're solid. We're good. We'll work hard.

Can we get beyond that? And how exactly?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 20, 2023, 07:40:16 PM
Quote from: elephant on October 20, 2023, 06:41:26 PM
You know the chestnut about defining insanity as doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results?

This is how I'm feeling. I've seen these dudes. They're good. I like them. I just don't see how they make a leap.

I'm not advocating making trades just for the sake of making trades. I suspect we tried for deals and failed to get them. And so it goes.

We're solid. We're good. We'll work hard.

Can we get beyond that? And how exactly?

Points taken

WELL Taken
Title: Toppin 2.1, Charlie Brown
Post by: chipstern on October 21, 2023, 05:41:52 PM
Extended two way contracts.

Roby brought back on Exhibit 10
Title: Jakob Toppin, Charlie Brown
Post by: chipstern on October 21, 2023, 07:02:22 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 21, 2023, 05:41:52 PM
Extended two way contracts.

Roby brought back on Exhibit 10

Knicks waive Mamadi Diakite, Brandon Goodwin, Isaiah Roby and Duane Washington Jr.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 22, 2023, 02:28:06 PM
Windlar in. Jeffries in.  Ryan Viilanova in.  No word on Roby.  G League?

Knight signs two way with Celtics.

Jakob Toppin 2 way.

We sure have a lot of guards and wings. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 22, 2023, 09:04:09 PM
Now it looks like Windler and Washington Jr. are the two ways and Jakob Toppin, Archi, and Jefferies made the 15.

Mitch Hartenstein Sims
Randle Toppin Fournier
RJ Hart Jefferies
Grimes Donte Archi
Brunson IQ Deuce

Sims might get what minutes there are behind Randle ahead of Toppin and Fournier
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 22, 2023, 10:12:21 PM
Charlie Brown on a  two way
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 23, 2023, 12:11:15 AM
And my bad, Windler is on a standard deal. I hope Toppin stays with us. I like his activity and feel at his size.
Title: Hmmmmm...
Post by: chipstern on October 23, 2023, 06:23:00 AM
12-Man Rotation

Guards: Miles McBride, Jalen Brunson, Immanuel Quickley, Donte DiVincenzo, Quentin Grimes

Wings: Josh Hart, RJ Barrett, Evan Fournier, Julius Randle

Bigs: Jericho Sims, Isaiah Hartenstein, Mitchell Robinson

15-Man Roster Fillers
Ryan Arcidiacono (G), DaQuan Jeffries (G), Dylan Windler (F)

3 Two-way Players
Charlie Brown Jr. (G), Jacob Toppin (F), Duane Washington Jr. (G)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 23, 2023, 06:25:52 AM
Ironically, Knicks seem to be projectingJakob Toppin as the replacement for Obi Toppin.

Eventually.

Short term?

Hart, Sims.

Welcome to small ball. 

PS: If Julius goes down, wave byebye.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 23, 2023, 02:39:20 PM
Julius is indestructible!

Meanwhile....Knicks are 7th in NBA power ratings as season begins?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 24, 2023, 06:02:56 AM
Quote from: elephant on October 23, 2023, 02:39:20 PM
Julius is indestructible!

Meanwhile....Knicks are 7th in NBA power ratings as season begins?

League wide or the East?

Boston, Milwaukee

Philly, Miami, New York, Cleveland
Title: Joel Embid
Post by: chipstern on October 24, 2023, 12:44:39 PM
More media frenzy.

Utter horseshit
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 24, 2023, 05:03:30 PM
Ain't gonna happen.

How could it when OKC can offer up to 37 draft picks over the next 7 years, lol!

Embiid does NOT have a no-trade clause.

**** but if anybody whines about throwing RJ, Mitch, or Quick into some hypothetical mock trade for the reigning MVP I will still smack their imbecilic asses.....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 24, 2023, 07:03:12 PM
I think Siakam is a better target.

IQ, Fournier, and one of Barrett or Randle and a couple of less promising picks.

We would get expensive but we would also get better which would be the point.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 24, 2023, 09:59:00 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 24, 2023, 06:02:56 AM
Quote from: elephant on October 23, 2023, 02:39:20 PM
Julius is indestructible!

Meanwhile....Knicks are 7th in NBA power ratings as season begins?

League wide or the East?

Boston, Milwaukee

Philly, Miami, New York, Cleveland

League wide!

https://www.nba.com/news/power-rankings-2023-24-week-1
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 24, 2023, 10:01:37 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on October 24, 2023, 07:03:12 PM
I think Siakam is a better target.

IQ, Fournier, and one of Barrett or Randle and a couple of less promising picks.

We would get expensive but we would also get better which would be the point.

I think Siakam could be great here.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 25, 2023, 06:39:51 AM
Opening night.

Thibs not the only one who favors 9 man rotations
Title: PS
Post by: chipstern on October 25, 2023, 06:40:55 AM
Siakim.  Sigh. 

But hey, by all means let's trade a couple of starters and multiple draft picks for this pricey savior. 
Title: Re: PS
Post by: elephant on October 25, 2023, 03:36:58 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 25, 2023, 06:40:55 AM
Siakim.  Sigh. 

But hey, by all means let's trade a couple of starters and multiple draft picks for this pricey savior.

Rejecting trades even before seeing them.

You're in season form!

And I see the sign you're holding up too:

STAND PAT FOREVER!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 25, 2023, 04:43:03 PM
 💰💰🚫💰💰

No my brother.

Stand pat?  No.

Don't sunder hard earned team chemistry, multiple starting rotation players, and several #1 picks for a player who cannot move the needle with what remains of the roster. 

Title: PS
Post by: chipstern on October 25, 2023, 07:14:50 PM
Maybe our best season in 20 years, but I'm a dipstick for not wanting to sunder chemistry and enervate a coherent roster in exchange for a player with an expiring $37 million contract who will be an UFA NEXT SUMMER.

But I'm deranged.

Too funny.

Fortunately, in REALITY, Leon Rose does not share your obsession with trades, Trades, TRADES

PPS: As per Dawg's projections in the unlikely event Embid comes on the market, well, THAT'S something else is it not?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 25, 2023, 11:00:03 PM
Chemistry was not as evident tonight as we would have hoped. Still this roster could approach 40 wins if things break right for us.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 26, 2023, 01:17:12 PM
That was not nothing.

Almost overcame Tingus' Wemby imitation and very weak games by our "stars." Made it competitive right to the end.

After the first quarter, we played to the Thibs blueprint.

I thought RJ was strong. Still don't see how a player with such an abominable touch and questionable basketball instincts can ever be a star, but I'll settle for a first Game 1 to Game 82 positive season and yesterday was a pretty good start.

Missing Obi, but he was NOT a Thibs player. Donte is. Color me unimpressed so far, would much rather see Deuce, or yes, I mean it, Fournier. But let's see what Coach does, the stable is full with guys he likes. Express your vision.

Jaylen Brown may be the most overpaid player in history.

Title: Refs admit flopping call on Brunson was wrong
Post by: Kam on October 26, 2023, 01:36:23 PM
https://x.com/OfficialNBARefs/status/1717585075531812968?s=20 (https://x.com/OfficialNBARefs/status/1717585075531812968?s=20)
Title: Takeaways
Post by: chipstern on October 26, 2023, 06:36:12 PM
Free throws

Top two players way off their game

Awful  flop call on Brunson

Not enough touches for Grimes

Encouraged by IQ and RJ.
Title: Lillard
Post by: chipstern on October 27, 2023, 12:31:20 AM
17-17 FTs
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 27, 2023, 11:50:54 AM
39 points, 8 boards and ZERO turnovers. Bucks getting their money's worth for sure

Couldn't help but notice how sloppy Embiid and Greek were at times ... 7 each. A lot of bad choices that can swing it in what ended up a 1-point game.

Despite the shooting, Julius had zero the other night...along with 11 boards. The kind of bad game that doesn't take you out of the game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 27, 2023, 01:15:14 PM
I think we are a tier down from the Celtics at this point. Let us see how we look against the Hawks. That will be a good indicator of where we stand this year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 27, 2023, 02:21:49 PM
Brunson would seem due for a comeback game as well. 

Julius seems focused on being a better team player.  Also seemed conscious of less dribbling and more decisive northsouth to the rack.

Worth noting that IQ and Maxey were Kentucky teammates, and that Max went at #21, IQ at 25.  IQ playing a good all around game
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 27, 2023, 04:29:22 PM
Quote from: chipstern on October 27, 2023, 02:21:49 PM
Brunson would seem due for a comeback game as well. 

Julius seems focused on being a better team player.  Also seemed conscious of less dribbling and more decisive northsouth to the rack.

Worth noting that IQ and Maxey were Kentucky teammates, and that Max went at #21, IQ at 25.  IQ playing a good all around game

JR
11 boards
7 assists
0 turnovers
Title: Clyde Sayeth
Post by: chipstern on October 27, 2023, 08:27:41 PM
Donte's Inferno

Did everything we could to give that game away

Turnovers

Yikes

Thank you Julius
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 27, 2023, 11:16:02 PM
There were a few nice things coming together in that one. Glad to ruin the home opener in Atlanta. Thibs had an imprint on this one.

Pels on a quick turn around offer even more of the swing length that is bound to give us troubles.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 28, 2023, 07:52:11 PM
so much for turnover-free Julius, yow!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 28, 2023, 07:57:57 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on October 28, 2023, 07:52:11 PM
so much for turnover-free Julius, yow!

A team implosion

Three Stooges aspect
Title: Donte
Post by: chipstern on October 29, 2023, 02:43:32 PM
DiVincenzo is a good defender.

Good three point threat.

Can't make a layup.

Strange.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on October 29, 2023, 06:54:25 PM
So much energy. Sometimes seems like helter skelter energy. Like I say, not sold yet.

Julius has a weird, very different energy so far this year.

Seemingly focused in. Not questioning calls. At all. Not dogging it. Very different. But, as of yet, not in any kind of groove.

I think he's on some medication, and they're still getting the dose right.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 30, 2023, 08:17:28 AM
Quote from: lesterluv on October 29, 2023, 06:54:25 PM
So much energy. Sometimes seems like helter skelter energy. Like I say, not sold yet.

Julius has a weird, very different energy so far this year.

Seemingly focused in. Not questioning calls. At all. Not dogging it. Very different. But, as of yet, not in any kind of groove.

I think he's on some medication, and they're still getting the dose right.

Hahaha.

He seems to be consciously very deferential to Jalen and RJ.

Thibs' offense seems to involve more motion and movement.

Julius more of a facilitator out of collapsing defenses. 

PS

Grimes needs to get more touches.

Hart still looking for his rhythm.

SF Windler made his only shot, a three, in garbage time.
Title: Re: Where are the minutes going to come from?
Post by: Kam on October 30, 2023, 01:19:24 PM
Average minutes after 3 games (minimum 3 game played)

Brunson 32 mpg (last season: 35 mpg)
Randle 34 mpg (last season: 35.5 mpg)
Grimes 25 mpg (last season: 29.5 mpg)
RJ 33.3 mpg (last season: 34 mpg)
Mitch 29.7 mpg (last season: 27 mpg)
iHart 17 (last season: 20 mpg)
Hart 22 mpg (last season: 30 mpg)
IQ 23.7 mpg (last season: 29 mpg)
DDV 18.3 mpg(last season: 26.5 mpg)

Everyone but Mitch is seeing fewer minutes. 



Very similar to what was projected here before the season started, only Grimes is a surprise:

Brunson 31 projected mpg (last season: 35 mpg)
Randle 31 projected mpg (last season: 35.5 mpg)
Grimes 30 projected mpg (last season: 29.5 mpg)
RJ 33 projected mpg (last season: 34 mpg)
Mitch 28 projected mpg (last season: 27 mpg)
iHart 20 projected mpg (last season: 20 mpg)
Hart 22 projected mpg (last season: 30 mpg)
IQ 23 projected mpg (last season: 29 mpg)
DDV 18 projected mpg (last season - 26.5 mpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 30, 2023, 02:46:55 PM
Interesting evolution

Wonder if Thibs will.spot McBride, Sims and Fournier minutes.

Nah
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 30, 2023, 07:05:44 PM
I cannot conceive how Grimes will have a "breakout season" with this offensive scheme.

The dude is not going to force the way. He needs opportunities.

I don't think he's gonna get them. He gives Thibs what Thibs wants (and without complaint).

I'm not prophesying he could be great, but I'd love to see what his offensive ceiling may be, save for hanging out in the corner, waiting to take the occasional 3-pointer with two seconds on the clock.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 31, 2023, 02:45:03 AM
Quote from: elephant on October 30, 2023, 07:05:44 PM
I cannot conceive how Grimes will have a "breakout season" with this offensive scheme.

The dude is not going to force the way. He needs opportunities.

I don't think he's gonna get them. He gives Thibs what Thibs wants (and without complaint).

I'm not prophesying he could be great, but I'd love to see what his offensive ceiling may be, save for hanging out in the corner, waiting to take the occasional 3-pointer with two seconds on the clock.

Thibs confers more freedom on IQ to create his own offense.
Title: Jaylen Brown
Post by: chipstern on October 31, 2023, 02:46:44 AM
Dawg, you might have spoken too soon.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 01, 2023, 12:26:19 PM
lol, never a good idea to open my yapper after one game...


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 01, 2023, 12:34:17 PM
so DDV is eating a bunch of minutes from folks whom I think are better than him...

(ok, a three game opinion isn't really much more insightful than a one game opinion, true, but that's still my opinion)

doesn't make much sense, all I can figure is that he's really here for insurance, to make sure we have depth and dogs left over after Leon's mega trade...which will come, sooner or later, whether we like it or not, this season or next


*** oh god, no KAT please, no KAT!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 01, 2023, 10:12:57 PM
Randle cannot function as our only forward. That was very apparent with RJ out. Jacob Toppin, pick up the orange and blue courtesy phone.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 02, 2023, 04:08:07 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 01, 2023, 10:12:57 PM
Randle cannot function as our only forward. That was very apparent with RJ out. Jacob Toppin, pick up the orange and blue courtesy phone.
 

Time for Brunson to transition from being a LEAD GUARD to a POINT GUARD.

Our shooting was awful, but JB took over 20 shots and only had 4 assists.

Cough.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 02, 2023, 11:16:58 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 01, 2023, 10:12:57 PM
Randle cannot function as our only forward. That was very apparent with RJ out. Jacob Toppin, pick up the orange and blue courtesy phone.

Genuinely strange roster moves

We cut Roby and Nathan ______ [picked up by the Celtics,]

Kept Arci, Jeffries, the ex Cavs Wing.

Small ball?

Strange choices. 

Over the summer I remember looking longingly at Bol.Bol.

Oh well. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 03, 2023, 12:42:05 AM
Bring back Marcus Morris so we have someone off the bench to spell Julius.

Morris makes 17.1,  Fournier makes 18.8.   Both ending deals. If the CBA allows the swap the Knicks should jump.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 03, 2023, 01:06:46 AM
I do not see why the Sixers would do that unless we sweeten the deal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: LarryB! on November 03, 2023, 05:17:08 PM
Lakers had a lot of injuries going into the game with Clippers

Cam Reddish got 37 minutes.

8-4-4
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 03, 2023, 10:36:55 PM
Good to see you posting again, Larry. Hope all has been well with you.

We could use a guy like Reddish.

We are still dropping close ones, this time to the Bucks.

Looks like we will let Randle play his way into rythym. How long could it take?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 04, 2023, 05:06:58 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 03, 2023, 10:36:55 PM
Good to see you posting again, Larry. Hope all has been well with you.

We could use a guy like Reddish.

We are still dropping close ones, this time to the Bucks.

Looks like we will let Randle play his way into rythym. How long could it take?

Julius really misses RJ.

Barrett draws a lot of defensive attention and facilitates opportunities for his teammates
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 05, 2023, 01:49:33 AM
Quote from: chipstern on November 04, 2023, 05:06:58 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 03, 2023, 10:36:55 PM
Good to see you posting again, Larry. Hope all has been well with you.

We could use a guy like Reddish.

We are still dropping close ones, this time to the Bucks.

Looks like we will let Randle play his way into rythym. How long could it take?

Julius really misses RJ.

Barrett draws a lot of defensive attention and facilitates opportunities for his teammates

What?!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 05, 2023, 09:33:06 AM
Quote from: elephant on November 05, 2023, 01:49:33 AM
Quote from: chipstern on November 04, 2023, 05:06:58 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 03, 2023, 10:36:55 PM
Good to see you posting again, Larry. Hope all has been well with you.

We could use a guy like Reddish.

We are still dropping close ones, this time to the Bucks.

Looks like we will let Randle play his way into rythym. How long could it take?

Julius really misses RJ.

Barrett draws a lot of defensive attention and facilitates opportunities for his teammates

What?!!

You hate [disdain?] RJ

We get it
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 05, 2023, 05:43:56 PM
Not sure RJ has the chops to get Julius to take his head out of his ass, but it is nice you have hope still
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 06, 2023, 01:37:25 AM
Quote from: chipstern on November 05, 2023, 09:33:06 AM
Quote from: elephant on November 05, 2023, 01:49:33 AM
Quote from: chipstern on November 04, 2023, 05:06:58 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 03, 2023, 10:36:55 PM
Good to see you posting again, Larry. Hope all has been well with you.

We could use a guy like Reddish.

We are still dropping close ones, this time to the Bucks.

Looks like we will let Randle play his way into rythym. How long could it take?

Julius really misses RJ.

Barrett draws a lot of defensive attention and facilitates opportunities for his teammates

What?!!

You hate [disdain?] RJ

We get it

My comment wasn't opaque.

And has little to do with RJ's prowess.

To ascribe Randle's poor play to the absence of RJ strikes me as absurd, since we've seen Julius go through strange bouts before.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 06, 2023, 04:13:57 AM
A team game last time I checked
Title: Not your typical NBA slump.
Post by: lesterluv on November 06, 2023, 12:00:32 PM
Team game, yes...but:

Our star player clearly struggles with mental illness.

I believe he is getting treatment for that illness. He will have his ups-and-downs. Long and short ups-and-downs. Some game long. Some weeks long. Some perhaps season long.

The team, or any of its individual players, cannot have much effect on the status of his illness. We have seen the illness manifest itself even as the team was winning games. His illness did not allow him to participate in the communal celebration.

Hopefully the current treatment will reap benefits, and Julius' play shooting will improve soon. I don't believe RJ can affect his prognosis in any way.



*** I remain tentatively impressed by the RJ we have seen so far this season. I hope to see more soon.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 06, 2023, 03:38:44 PM
This will be Randles breakout game for sure.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 06, 2023, 11:13:42 PM
Best game of the year! So many good things.

Love the big men playing hard.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 07, 2023, 12:47:27 AM
That is one blueprint for victory. Spurs up next. Hold on to your hats my friends
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on November 07, 2023, 02:38:52 AM
Yes top three players needed.
Title: The Prophet Chip? [And Facil]
Post by: chipstern on November 07, 2023, 05:13:07 AM
RJ returns and Julius with his most decisive performance.

Hey, you tell me.

[Ironic Chuckle]

FTs, 17-18.

And 35 points off of turnovers.

Donte and Hart [and IQ] with big games.

Mitchell and IH with solid games at the 5.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 07, 2023, 09:16:33 AM
That was the good stuff!

Could have gone either way with the Julius noggin, was right on the precipice, and he tipped to the bright side.

Hart finding himself.

Dante, the execution keeping up with the energy as has not always been the case.

Our monster two-headed center.


RJ maintains his most consistent start ever.

So much to build on here, should we choose to
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 07, 2023, 12:47:49 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on November 07, 2023, 09:16:33 AM
That was the good stuff!

Could have gone either way with the Julius noggin, was right on the precipice, and he tipped to the bright side.

Hart finding himself.

Dante, the execution keeping up with the energy as has not always been the case.

Our monster two-headed center.


RJ maintains his most consistent start ever.

So much to build on here, should we choose to

Donte, Josh, IQ were dynamic.

Julius still had his nutritional allotment of brain farts but on the whole he was energized and decisive.

RJ with a great leap forward.

All this on a night when Brunson was not dominant
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 08, 2023, 10:47:21 PM
Julius

26
15
5

IQ on fire

Brunson in the trey zone

RJ HAS ARRIVED FOLKS
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 08, 2023, 11:49:49 PM
If we are going to play like we did the last two, we are probably going to win some games. We have urgency and it looks like some sort of plan.

If you squint, it almost looks sustainable. I almost pleasantly surprised
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 09, 2023, 11:02:46 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 08, 2023, 11:49:49 PM
If we are going to play like we did the last two, we are probably going to win some games. We have urgency and it looks like some sort of plan.

If you squint, it almost looks sustainable. I almost pleasantly surprised

Something to be said for coherence and continuity and the collective chemistry of dancing with the girl what brung ya.
Title: Obi
Post by: chipstern on November 10, 2023, 08:34:50 AM
In most recent Pacers game, played 13 minutes

Hmmmm...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 10, 2023, 11:52:20 AM
Yeah. Apparently Obi could not slow down GA on his way to 54. He has still started every game, is doing Obi things pretty regularly as Carlyle works him into his system. I think Obi will be OK

What Thibs has planned for that other Toppin, or some deal of smalls for a reasonably sized wing, is going to be key for us if we want to be much more than we were. If RJ can stay rolling and Julius can continue to play his way into shape and keep it together we can replicate last years achievement of missing the play in and potentially seeing a second series. Further will require we address the weakness we have against athletic forwards and big wings. Jules and RJ each have too much offensive load to have no backup to either role standing no taller than 6 foot 5. Josh Hart, bless him, and team defense will only get you so far
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 11, 2023, 03:06:40 AM
Mmmmmmm

We shall see

Thibs seems to have a plan and a purpose

Let's check back in on December 1 and see how it is playing out
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 11, 2023, 09:07:58 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 11, 2023, 03:06:40 AM
Mmmmmmm

We shall see

Thibs seems to have a plan and a purpose

Let's check back in on December 1 and see how it is playing out

Roby with 13 & 11 for Westchester
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 12, 2023, 04:45:08 PM
We waxed Charlotte in total team effort. Miller probably could have kept it interesting had he made it through the game. Ankle took him out early and we rolled.

Boston next, a bit more serious test for us tomorrow
Title: Obi
Post by: chipstern on November 15, 2023, 10:16:17 AM
Had a breakthrough game for Indy
Title: Just In Case It Comes Up
Post by: chipstern on November 15, 2023, 10:18:50 AM
Fuck Zack Levine
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 15, 2023, 06:10:10 PM
Happy with what I'm seeing from RJ this year. Seems smarter, more fluid on the court and, of course, shooting threes like a sniper. Two big questions: Can he continue to play at this high level? And how does he play in the last few minutes of tight games. I've pointed out that he's hasn't shown the ability to rise to the occasion, instead missing baskets, turning the ball over and just an assortment of psychological mistakes.

But I'd love him to succeed.

I've got no complaints about anyone yet. Love how Julius fought back from some shaky games.

I am starting to get some Thib moments though. Like how Grimes makes 3 threes in as many minutes late in the 3rd quarter....and doesn't take another shot in the game? He was taken out at the start of the quarter and didn't come back in until just a few minutes left? WTF?

And Chip, what do you think the plan is for Fournier? I know they see him as a trade chip, but there's no way he can just fester on the bench another year, without a toxic vapor of dissent developing. They gotta do something, no?

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 16, 2023, 12:14:59 AM
It saves wear and tear on Evans legs and might help extend his career. If he was itching to play he would offer some money back so we could buy him out and he could find a team. We may break the bubble wrap against Washington and Charlotte though Thibs being Thibs we may just see more Donte and Hart if RJ and Grimes miss time.

Nice to have the road wins against Atlanta salted away.
Title: 10 game Eastern Conference power rankings
Post by: Kam on November 16, 2023, 01:05:30 PM
Here are my personal rankings.   I'm not a big believer in the new look Bucks or Heat.  Indy still had much to prove but is dangerous.  Cleveland will remain a media darling that sums up to less than the sum of its parts.

Tier 1:  These teams are head and shoulders above the pack and should meet in the ECF:

Boston
Philly

Tier 2:  These teams have a chance to make the 2nd round and avoid being swept:

Milwaukee
New York
Indy
Miami
Cleveland

Tier 3: These teams will fight to hope to stay out of the play-in:

Atlanta
Brooklyn

Tier 4:  Play-in hopefuls:

Orlando
Toronto
Chicago*  Could tank and drop to tier 5
Charlotte* Could tank and drop to tier 5

Tier 5: Lotto dreamers:

Pistons
Wizards


Title: Fournier?
Post by: chipstern on November 16, 2023, 01:26:04 PM
Not a clue as to how it plays out between Thibs and Fourneir.

But coming off the bench, IQ, Hart and The Big Ragu have taken all his minutes. 
Title: Re: 10 game Eastern Conference power rankings
Post by: elephant on November 16, 2023, 09:27:13 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 16, 2023, 01:05:30 PM
Tier 1:  These teams are head and shoulders above the pack and should meet in the ECF:

Boston
Philly

Tier 2:  These teams have a chance to make the 2nd round and avoid being swept:

Milwaukee
New York
Indy
Miami
Cleveland

It's early, but I'd definitely reverse Philadelphia and Milwaukee.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 16, 2023, 09:40:08 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 16, 2023, 12:14:59 AM
It saves wear and tear on Evans legs and might help extend his career. If he was itching to play he would offer some money back so we could buy him out and he could find a team. We may break the bubble wrap against Washington and Charlotte though Thibs being Thibs we may just see more Donte and Hart if RJ and Grimes miss time.

Thibs helping Fournier save wear and tear on his legs is an amusing thought (tho don't think Evan laughing).

But I'm not ever looking at his perspective. With the Villanova brotherhood and Thib's tight rotations, the team seems close. You want to keep things that way.
Title: Be Careful What You Wish For
Post by: chipstern on November 16, 2023, 10:17:52 PM
I think Philly is better than Milwaukee.

Dame is an offensive juggernaut, but I think Milwaukee really misses Holiday's defense and chemistry.

When Knicks fans pine and whine for SUPERSTARS, well, Lillard and Harden may prove to be cautionary tales. 
Title: Re: Be Careful What You Wish For
Post by: elephant on November 16, 2023, 11:27:01 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 16, 2023, 10:17:52 PM
I think Philly is better than Milwaukee.

Dame is an offensive juggernaut, but I think Milwaukee really misses Holiday's defense and chemistry.

When Knicks fans pine and whine for SUPERSTARS, well, Lillard and Harden may prove to be cautionary tales.

Aw, come on man. What did Damien do to be grouped with the likes of Harden?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 17, 2023, 12:13:51 AM
Milwaukee looks like it functioned better with Holiday who is a marked upgrade in Boston over Smart. That is what has Dame in the conversation. For all the pop of Dame does he still have two way value?

I do not want a trade for a supa-dupa-star. I want a big wing swing forward defensive menace who has game that exceeds his reputation and salary. I hope Evan and some marginalia are enough to get it done.

Title: Evan
Post by: carlos123 on November 17, 2023, 12:51:30 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 17, 2023, 12:13:51 AM
Milwaukee looks like it functioned better with Holiday who is a marked upgrade in Boston over Smart. That is what has Dame in the conversation. For all the pop of Dame does he still have two way value?

I do not want a trade for a supa-dupa-star. I want a big wing swing forward defensive menace who has game that exceeds his reputation and salary. I hope Evan and some marginalia are enough to get it done.

Afraid Evan has close to zero value right now.

Thanks, Thibs.
Title: Re: Evan
Post by: elephant on November 17, 2023, 04:02:10 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on November 17, 2023, 12:51:30 AM

Afraid Evan has close to zero value right now.

Thanks, Thibs.

Well, he was France's top scorer in the World Cup. That's something.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 17, 2023, 04:03:10 AM
I'm just saying with Dame and Milwaukee....you've got to give it little time.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 17, 2023, 04:05:18 AM
Boston looks great though. Addition of Porzingis seems like a great fit.

(will definitely take the Knicks 7 games to beat them in the Eastern Finals)
Title: Re: Be Careful What You Wish For
Post by: chipstern on November 17, 2023, 10:19:30 AM
Quote from: elephant on November 16, 2023, 11:27:01 PM
Quote from: chipstern on November 16, 2023, 10:17:52 PM
I think Philly is better than Milwaukee.

Dame is an offensive juggernaut, but I think Milwaukee really misses Holiday's defense and chemistry.

When Knicks fans pine and whine for SUPERSTARS, well, Lillard and Harden may prove to be cautionary tales.

Aw, come on man. What did Damien do to be grouped with the likes of Harden?

Haha
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 17, 2023, 10:21:35 AM
Quote from: elephant on November 17, 2023, 04:03:10 AM
I'm just saying with Dame and Milwaukee....you've got to give it little time.

Of course.

STILL...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 17, 2023, 01:02:28 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 16, 2023, 12:14:59 AM
It saves wear and tear on Evans legs and might help extend his career. If he was itching to play he would offer some money back so we could buy him out and he could find a team.

He is itching to play, but offering $$ would change nothing.

His salary is being warehoused, it will be needed in "the big trade" as the young ones $ (+ draft picks) won't match up. I expect him to ride the pines (unhappily) through the trade deadline. Then,  if nothing has happened, the buy out will likely come.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 17, 2023, 04:07:53 PM
Package or release are probably the only options. He is significantly less value than anyone in a salary range he can be traded head up for.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 17, 2023, 11:46:40 PM
Wiz will help a lot of teams stats if they keep putting Poole and Kuzma out together for long stretches.

Charlotte will have Bridges back for the next leg.

Hi ho, hi ho, hijo mio, itz on the road we go
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 18, 2023, 09:48:48 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 17, 2023, 11:46:40 PM
Wiz will help a lot of teams stats if they keep putting Poole and Kuzma out together for long stretches.

Charlotte will have Bridges back for the next leg.

Hi ho, hi ho, hijo mio, itz on the road we go

Hornets are going to be tough.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 18, 2023, 01:12:48 PM
Hoping a breath of Carolina air helps get RJs humors in balance. We miss him when he is out
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 18, 2023, 01:58:56 PM
this migraine thing is...weird
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 18, 2023, 02:45:47 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on November 18, 2023, 01:58:56 PM
this migraine thing is...weird

The fact that Knicks fans, not saying you, are ascribing something sinister or petulant or pussified to RJ'S issues is galling.

Some Arbiter of toughguyness on Facebook suggested helpfully that RJ  should "suck it up snowflake and take some Ibuprofen."

I rained contempt on this shitbird.  My father had migranes.  Scary. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on November 18, 2023, 03:04:26 PM
Yeah, I'm not doubting his toughness or anything. They can be debilitating no doubt, my niece is often homebound by 'em, but....

Usually you have a history, don't remember one with RJ, also he's been in the stadiums, filled with light and noise, often triggers.

I'm just saying....weird.



***anyway, we've held down the fort, by committee, that committee including, of all people, our favorite frenchman
Title: Weirdness
Post by: chipstern on November 18, 2023, 05:38:40 PM
Duly noted...
Title: Charlotte
Post by: chipstern on November 18, 2023, 05:42:17 PM
RJ and Quentin

Questionable

And Fournier is out with ankle inflammation

MF can't catch a break
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 18, 2023, 10:56:44 PM
That went well. Donte went off. We kept our act together and put together a good win. RJ eased back in. We are for the moment in the thick of the 4-6 group. The season is getting fun.

Come down in Minneapolis is likey Monday
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 18, 2023, 11:04:33 PM
Good team. We fucking scrap.

Brunson is hitting his stride.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 19, 2023, 09:30:41 AM
Quote from: elephant on November 18, 2023, 11:04:33 PM
Good team. We fucking scrap.

Brunson is hitting his stride.

Nickname

MONEY
Title: Best Offseason Moves
Post by: chipstern on November 20, 2023, 09:07:54 AM
As per Monica McNutt.

Besides Donte?

Nothing.

Continuity.  Coherence.  Chemistry.

Letting this squad continue to grow together and inculcate Thibs' system.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 20, 2023, 04:27:42 PM
RJ and Donte have really impressed me this season.

IMHO RJ has started out with a much stronger all-around game than last season. That's the first time I could say that. And yeah, that surprised me.

And Donte....I just expected a better-than-average 3-point shooter. But the MF has the pugnacious, scrambling gene that you see in Hart (and Brunson). What the fuck did they feed those guys in Villanova?

Look like winners to me.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 21, 2023, 12:23:47 AM
Minnesota is for real.

As losses go....not an awful one.

Save for the first minutes in the 2nd half, which were atrocious, Knicks were cold and unlucky while the Timberwolves were hot and on a roll. It happens. They worked hard throughout though.

Funny how much of an impact IQ makes when he's not on his game; I'm used to to the dude singlehandedly making any game competitive.
Title: Patterns
Post by: chipstern on November 21, 2023, 01:34:34 PM
Same as Boston game.

Neck and neck in the first half

Got blitzed in the third quarter

Happy for the Wolves

Great chemistry

Sitting atop the west

Hope they stay healthy
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 23, 2023, 04:33:17 PM
We only play half the Heat tomorrow. Got to watch out for Lowry and keep our heads, but it looks like a good opportunity if we can start each half with enough energy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 25, 2023, 01:36:27 PM
That was a miraculous turn around and a great result. Not sure whether I will care about this tournament thing yet, but getting the game from Miami and getting to 9-6 is very encouraging. I still have my concerns with this team, but the top nine guys certainly do their jobs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 25, 2023, 05:53:16 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 25, 2023, 01:36:27 PM
That was a miraculous turn around and a great result. Not sure whether I will care about this tournament thing yet, but getting the game from Miami and getting to 9-6 is very encouraging. I still have my concerns with this team, but the top nine guys certainly do their jobs.

TOP 9

Worth noting for the Thibs Haters, beefing about his 9 man rotation.

Check the box scores.

With the exception of Orlando's Mosley,  damn near every NBA coach runs a 9 man rotation.

PS: Props to IQ, might not show up in the box score, but man did HARTENSTEIN ever man up.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on November 25, 2023, 08:52:42 PM
Wow stopped watching after third quarter. Miracle win.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 26, 2023, 05:42:29 PM
Good chance the Suns bring us back down to earth.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 26, 2023, 09:50:35 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 26, 2023, 05:42:29 PM
Good chance the Suns bring us back down to earth.

Devin Booker
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 26, 2023, 11:51:25 PM
Not an awful game, but a tough loss. Time to bounce back
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 27, 2023, 01:30:35 PM
Just a public announcement.

IQ is awfully good....and is one of those guys that just keep getting better and better.

I would NOT let him go anywhere.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 27, 2023, 01:37:58 PM
I agree.

Unfortunately I have no idea at all what Rose and his team are going to do.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on November 27, 2023, 09:30:15 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on November 27, 2023, 01:37:58 PM
I agree.

Unfortunately I have no idea at all what Rose and his team are going to do.

I believe IQ being so marketable, and on an affordable contratct,  the front office kept trade options open in the event something irresistible came along

Having said that, with Fournier coming off the books next summer, IQ gets RJ money.
Title: Cam Whitmore
Post by: chipstern on November 27, 2023, 09:33:33 PM
Villinova

6'7" 230 SF/PF

Toggling between bench and G League

Doesn't hurt to ask. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 28, 2023, 11:06:13 PM
Knicks are going to Vegas. Randle with his first 20-20 game. Hart with some vintage play. He griped and then he showed out which, if you are gonna gripe, is the right way to do it.

10-7 is not a bad way to start the season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 29, 2023, 01:13:56 PM
We still have to beat the Bucks to get to Vegas, in Milwaukee.  But as I mentioned in my last post, I think we are in the same tier as Milwaukee in that second tier in the East.  Milwaukee gives up 117 point per game, they don't scare me if we're healthy and making our threes.
Title: Beavis and Butthead
Post by: Kam on November 29, 2023, 01:17:14 PM
Fred Katz of the athletic has a new podcast, he interviewed Ian Begley and they were talking about the locker room dynamics.  Fred was saying how at home, Mitch and Isiaih's locker's are on the same side of the locker room but on the road their lockers are always side by side.  He calls them the Beavis and Butthead of the Knicks.  Mitch's shtick is he doesn't like to be interviewed after games, and sometimes he makes the reporters ask Isiah the questions meant for Mitch while Mitch is there one locker away saying things like "good question" while Isiah has to give an answer.

I love that chemistry and would hate to lose Isiah to free agency.
Title: Re: Beavis and Butthead
Post by: elephant on November 29, 2023, 01:25:37 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 29, 2023, 01:17:14 PM
Fred Katz of the athletic has a new podcast, he interviewed Ian Begley and they were talking about the locker room dynamics.  Fred was saying how at home, Mitch and Isiaih's locker's are on the same side of the locker room but on the road their lockers are always side by side.  He calls them the Beavis and Butthead of the Knicks.  Mitch's shtick is he doesn't like to be interviewed after games, and sometimes he makes the reporters ask Isiah the questions meant for Mitch while Mitch is there one locker away saying things like "good question" while Isiah has to give an answer.

I love that chemistry and would hate to lose Isiah to free agency.

Everything you hear about IQ is like this. The dude is an asset in so many ways.

And now something else is emerging...

He's winning us games.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on November 29, 2023, 03:28:50 PM
Isiah Hartenstein not Immanuel Quickley
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 29, 2023, 09:05:23 PM
Quote from: Kam on November 29, 2023, 03:28:50 PM
Isiah Hartenstein not Immanuel Quickley

Ohhh!

Then that's shit is funny. I heard they got along pretty well, but nothing like that.

You think a day passes without the Clipper's management ruing they traded Hartenstein away?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on November 30, 2023, 01:33:37 AM
The Clips looked good today and thoroughly waxed the Kings. They may actually get their shit together.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 30, 2023, 08:47:47 PM
End of first half. Julius can drive any time he wants with Detroit. They can't guard him.

And he's made a number of wonderful drives.

But still he somehow has 3 unnecessary airball 3-pointers...THREE....to his name and wildly lackluster defense.

For some reason, he's really irritating me tonight. Thibs is his codependent. Randle can take a shit in the center of the court and Thibs wouldn't even give a disapproving glance. I've never thought that this kind of "support" is helpful for him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on November 30, 2023, 10:04:09 PM
Okay, Randle's is clutch at the end. All is forgiven.

(still....when he checks out at times....it ain't pretty)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 01, 2023, 03:45:03 PM
This obsessive micro analysis of Randle is most tiresome. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 01, 2023, 03:51:13 PM
When exactly is all this checking out occuring?

29-10-8

Hello
Title: Tiresome
Post by: carlos123 on December 01, 2023, 04:35:20 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 01, 2023, 03:45:03 PM
This obsessive micro analysis of Randle is most tiresome.

Speak for yourself. I enjoy elephant-s analyses, including those regarding King Julius.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 01, 2023, 04:41:22 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 01, 2023, 03:51:13 PM
When exactly is all this checking out occuring?

29-10-8

Hello

Mainly on the defensive end.

It will likely hurt us against Toronto
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 01, 2023, 11:29:09 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 01, 2023, 04:41:22 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 01, 2023, 03:51:13 PM
When exactly is all this checking out occuring?

29-10-8

Hello

Mainly on the defensive end.

It will likely hurt us against Toronto

20
10
9

Siakim didn't go crazy.

12-7 on December 1

We live to fight another day
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 02, 2023, 07:30:45 AM
Mitchell Robinson's outreach to his HS coach on the death of his wife.

They nurtured him, he nurtures them back.

MR is a kind man.  A real mensch
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 04, 2023, 11:43:07 AM
We're lucky. Looks like we have a number of high character guys.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 04, 2023, 11:50:21 AM
Quote from: chipstern on December 01, 2023, 03:51:13 PM
When exactly is all this checking out occuring?

29-10-8

Hello

Look, I'm never been a Randle detractor.

But it is what it is. You can brandish all the stats you want, but there's something real that separates him from other top hoopers.

It's a psychological issue, a focus issue. When it arises, there's no mistaking it.

And it ain't pretty.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 04, 2023, 02:38:04 PM
You can see how accommodating Randle shortcomings while accentuating Randle strengths has been a focus of the team roster moves over the last several seasons.

Brunson removes any need for Randle to be team leader while putting a leader on the floor who can more often than not help him keep his head in the game.

Mitch gives the back line coverage any lineup with a weak defender elsewhere needs. Hartenstein does well there too while offering more on the other side. He was here, but he got the contract impart because of how he fits with Randle.

We shipped out Reddish and let Obi walk to get Hart and Donte who bring energy movement and smarts to both set up easy Randle possessions and to rescue ones that become difficult on both ends. With Randle, Brunson and RJ providing the engine to our offense the results have been pretty good. It still feels like this is a weird team to watch.

I am happy to see how far we can go and what we can add hopefully through the draft with our pick and one from Dallas.

We have other draft capital of more distant and lesser value to deal with and five interchangeably irrelevant guys waiting on the bench if we see a chance to grab someone the coach might actually use.

I am also in favor of a Grimes demotion in favor of Hart or Donte both to shore up starting production and because our second unit seems like it would be easier to find a groove in than amongst our starters. I do not think defensively there is much daylight between any of those three.

I am expecting a pounding from Milwaukee. I hope I am wrong about it


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 04, 2023, 10:06:33 PM
Why expect a pounding?

I expect a competitive game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 04, 2023, 10:12:13 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 04, 2023, 02:38:04 PM
You can see how accommodating Randle shortcomings while accentuating Randle strengths has been a focus of the team roster moves over the last several seasons.

Brunson removes any need for Randle to be team leader while putting a leader on the floor who can more often than not help him keep his head in the game.

Mitch gives the back line coverage any lineup with a weak defender elsewhere needs. Hartenstein does well there too while offering more on the other side. He was here, but he got the contract impart because of how he fits with Randle.

We shipped out Reddish and let Obi walk to get Hart and Donte who bring energy movement and smarts to both set up easy Randle possessions and to rescue ones that become difficult on both ends. With Randle, Brunson and RJ providing the engine to our offense the results have been pretty good. It still feels like this is a weird team to watch........


Yeah to the above.

The team design is weird....but it's working. And it's pretty cool to watch.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 05, 2023, 12:34:32 PM
Julius says,

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 05, 2023, 01:49:51 PM
He packed for Vegas. That is in the Milwaukee pregame speech. Jules asked for it, now all he has to do is overcome the response.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 05, 2023, 10:00:29 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 05, 2023, 01:49:51 PM
He packed for Vegas. That is in the Milwaukee pregame speech. Jules asked for it, now all he has to do is overcome the response.

Thanks for finishing the quote!

That was indeed what I thought I wrote. No idea why it vanished.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 05, 2023, 10:02:19 PM
They'll learn from this I figure.

But I also hope we don't come across these motherfuckers in the playoffs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 05, 2023, 10:39:29 PM
Yeah. I was just thinking we want no part of them in a series. Still, we hung in and fought for three quarters. Jules had a pretty huge game, just not enough when the opponent manages sixty percent from the field and from three.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 06, 2023, 02:23:41 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 05, 2023, 10:39:29 PM
Yeah. I was just thinking we want no part of them in a series. Still, we hung in and fought for three quarters. Jules had a pretty huge game, just not enough when the opponent manages sixty percent from the field and from three.

Well, we got ONE COMPETITIVE HALF

Julius played the game of his life. 

But man oh man did they ever undress us from trey. 

PS: IQ coming down to Earth after a recent epic run.

PPS: Work to be done.  I'm wondering if Grimes might not get more looks, touches, opportunities to create on the second unit.  A forgotten man on the starting five. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 07, 2023, 10:36:17 PM
Tyrese Haliburton

DAMN
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 08, 2023, 12:42:46 PM
IQ coming up small recently, and in big games.  Combined with his playoffs no-show, it's a little concerning.

Randle is an infuriating player to root for.  To get the good Randle, you have to put up with the occasional lack of focus, reluctance to hustle, and apathy on defense.   Because offensively he is a force for good.  You just hope the good outweigh the rest on any given night. Early this year the good didn't outweigh the bad.  But he's rounding into form now.

Grimes on the bench.  I agree he should go there if only to touch the ball more often.  But I know Thibs will not want to mess with a bench unit that his been gangbusters and a starting unit that is still a net positive.  Grimes defense on starters is more important than his defense on reserves.  There's offensive superstars in the league we need to put Grimes on, and usually they start games.   

Katz made mention of something interesting. Yes, much of Grimes struggle is on himself. He had the same role last year and he was much more effective, and not always parked in the corner.   But another wrinkle to it is that when Grimes IS open in the corner Jalen Brunson, as the nominal PG, should sacrifice some of his own looks to create a couple of shots for Quentin.  RJ and Randle to a lesser extent should look to involve him more.  So I think if there is a change, it starts with the starters sharing the ball more often.   

The forum wanted to draft Haliburton.   We drafted OBI instead.  Thanks Leon.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: LarryB! on December 08, 2023, 07:44:06 PM
LeBron James will be 39 this month. Damn!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 09, 2023, 01:47:38 PM
Well that last post didn't age well did it.   Thibs surprised me.  Grimes looked more confident not having to defer to others.  But our point of attack defense offered up less resistance than swiss cheese.  Mitch got hurt, but we looked more competitive with ihart who, while not exactly a stretch five by any means, at least gives you more on offense than Mitch.

We have a team defensive concept that is good enough on most nights, but as we've seen with the 0-5 record vs the Celtics and Bucks, it's not good enough to beat the top teams UNLESS we execute at our 95th percentile AND get a little lucky to boot.

With the benefit of hindsight, it would've been better not to blow out Charlotte, so we'd have had two lesser opponents.  But on the other hand, we've had our eyes opened and so has Leon that this team is a nice team and tries hard, but is ultimately lacking a couple more pieces to truly compete.

I like this team, but at some point there will need to be some changes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 09, 2023, 02:02:42 PM
As far what changes... 

Brunson vs IQ.   Pick your guy and move the other one.  We can't afford the luxury of carrying both.   Losing either player would hurt our depth and bench performance, but if you can get an big wing like Anunoby to guard the big wings of the league, it's a piece this squad desperately needs.

Hartenstein vs Robinson.  Pick your guy and move the other one.  We can't afford the luxury of carrying both.  If you make the first move to acquire a big wing who defends the other teams primary wing, that will help offset the loss of one of our big men. I love Mitch and everything he has meant to the franchise, but its no surprise that the top teams in the league all employ at least one stretch five if not multiple guys (Denver, Boston, Milwaukee, Philly etc etc) who defend and stretch the floor.  While Hartenstein isn't a stretch five per se, he gets us closer to that ideal, allowing us to maybe move a guy like Mitch for something valuable.  Or perhaps it's Ihart who is more appealing accross the league.

Either way we have a surplus at the PG and C.  You take these strengths and use them to shore up your weaknesses and balance the team.

I really have no sacred cows.   If it costs a Brunson or a Robinson to fundamentally change the ceiling of this franchise, then Leon needs to pull the trigger.   If it costs IQ and IHart, i'll be sad but looking forward to the talent we get in return and what that does for the team as a whole.   I like this team, but it has first round playoff exit, maybe second if we get lucky.   Serious contenders we are not.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 09, 2023, 02:19:26 PM
We need Mitch and Hartenstein. You need depth.

What we do have is a glut of guards.

I would see if Washington would give up Deni Avdija for IQ and Sims. He is miscast as a point forward but he is a focused dirty work guy who does the connective things at a reasonable forward size. He also signed his extension and it is for a bunch less than Quickley will be getting

Mitch Hartenstein
Randle Jefferies
Avdija Hart Fournier Windler
Barrett Donte
Brunson McBride Archi
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 11, 2023, 01:05:19 PM
Quote from: Kam on December 09, 2023, 01:47:38 PM
We have a team defensive concept that is good enough on most nights, but as we've seen with the 0-5 record vs the Celtics and Bucks, it's not good enough to beat the top teams UNLESS we execute at our 95th percentile AND get a little lucky to boot.

With the benefit of hindsight, it would've been better not to blow out Charlotte, so we'd have had two lesser opponents.  But on the other hand, we've had our eyes opened and so has Leon that this team is a nice team and tries hard, but is ultimately lacking a couple more pieces to truly compete.

I like this team, but at some point there will need to be some changes.

Yeah, 100% agree.

This was right before the season and it's right now.
Title: Mitchell Out With Ankle Surgery
Post by: chipstern on December 11, 2023, 02:25:19 PM
An 8-10 week window for our starting center's return.

Meanwhile, IQ has some knee sorenes and is questionable for tonight.

We now return to the next editions of Trader Vic.

PS: I particularly enjoyed Kam floating the notion of trading Brunson.  That was inspired.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 11, 2023, 04:30:40 PM
Hey, don't shoot the messenger.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 11, 2023, 04:39:27 PM
We've got a good, scrappy, hard-working squad. They will win a good chunk of games.

But they've got a ceiling...and it's just not as high as the Bucks or the Celtics (to name just two).

This doesn't mean anyone knows exactly what the Knicks should do next. But it does mean that we should know how far we go...if we more or less do nothing at all.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 11, 2023, 05:48:36 PM
Quote from: elephant on December 11, 2023, 04:39:27 PM
We've got a good, scrappy, hard-working squad. They will win a good chunk of games.

But they've got a ceiling...and it's just not as high as the Bucks or the Celtics (to name just two).

This doesn't mean anyone knows exactly what the Knicks should do next. But it does mean that we should know how far we go...if we more or less do nothing at all.

Our hands would seem to be tied.

What if any significant options present themselves?

NONE
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 11, 2023, 11:44:20 PM
It is early days yet. There will be at least two or three fire sales it looks like based on the start of the season.

Good win tonight against one of the prime suspects who we put one step closer to a shakeup.

It seems that the shots going to SG and C in the starting lineup may have more to do with system than personnel.

Got one we were supposed to get and that we needed. Eight of the next ten are on the road
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 12, 2023, 02:30:57 PM
Yeah, stuff's gonna shake up for sure. Hopefully we'll act appropriately when it does, or stand put if inappropriate.

Good stuff last night, dosage correct for Julius, very promising going forward, and so nice to see Hart back in post-trade mode. Not surprised the season assist high came with Allonzo Trier II Immanuel Quickley out!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 12, 2023, 06:27:52 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on December 12, 2023, 02:30:57 PM
Yeah, stuff's gonna shake up for sure. Hopefully we'll act appropriately when it does, or stand put if inappropriate.

Good stuff last night, dosage correct for Julius, very promising going forward, and so nice to see Hart back in post-trade mode. Not surprised the season assist high came with Allonzo Trier II Immanuel Quickley out!

Funny but hardly fair
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 13, 2023, 04:47:17 PM
Goodbye Dylan Windler. Hello again Taj Gibson.

A very minor tweak, but I think it helps.
Title: Guess Who's Coming To Dinner
Post by: chipstern on December 13, 2023, 04:48:18 PM
Knicks ink Taj Gibson to one year contract.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 13, 2023, 04:49:53 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 13, 2023, 04:47:17 PM
Goodbye Dylan Windler. Hello again Taj Gibson.

A very minor tweak, but I think it helps.

A player-coach who gives us coverage at the 4&5 spots.

High character cat.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 13, 2023, 11:40:10 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 12, 2023, 06:27:52 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on December 12, 2023, 02:30:57 PM
Yeah, stuff's gonna shake up for sure. Hopefully we'll act appropriately when it does, or stand put if inappropriate.

Good stuff last night, dosage correct for Julius, very promising going forward, and so nice to see Hart back in post-trade mode. Not surprised the season assist high came with Allonzo Trier II Immanuel Quickley out!

Funny but hardly fair

IQ as Trier?

Been too busy to watch the games this year, Lester?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 13, 2023, 11:41:31 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 13, 2023, 04:49:53 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 13, 2023, 04:47:17 PM
Goodbye Dylan Windler. Hello again Taj Gibson.

A very minor tweak, but I think it helps.

A player-coach who gives us coverage at the 4&5 spots.

High character cat.

And for what it's worth, I've never seen him have a bad game.

Fucking solid.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 14, 2023, 12:19:44 AM
Well, we did not give up. On to the next
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 14, 2023, 12:40:19 PM
Quote from: elephant on December 13, 2023, 11:40:10 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 12, 2023, 06:27:52 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on December 12, 2023, 02:30:57 PM
Yeah, stuff's gonna shake up for sure. Hopefully we'll act appropriately when it does, or stand put if inappropriate.

Good stuff last night, dosage correct for Julius, very promising going forward, and so nice to see Hart back in post-trade mode. Not surprised the season assist high came with Allonzo Trier II Immanuel Quickley out!

Funny but hardly fair

IQ as Trier?

Been too busy to watch the games this year, Lester?

Just having fun, but you might just be the blind one if you can't pick up on the "hints of Trier" in IQ's game. (Tho' the original Iso Man was a significantly better shooter)

Surely you've seen dozens of those 20-seconds with the ball possessions.

Watched last night. Team was awful with him on the floor, despite his MEEMEE points. Just sayin..... Surely Thibs would have given him more minutes if he felt otherwise.



*** I look forward to him outgrowing these tendencies and working to complete the evolution of his game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 14, 2023, 02:27:56 PM
IQ might've been on a quasi-minutes restriction, as he's coming back from the injured list and Thibs did reinsert him at the end of the game after sitting most of the 2nd half.

Last night was on the players missing shots, but also on Thibs for his weird substitution patters.  DDV can't sit on the pine that long while all our other shooters are bricking their threes.  Thibs play calls after time outs yielded ugly looking possessions and can we look inspired for once when we start or end a half or are we singing kumbaya in the locker room?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 14, 2023, 02:58:29 PM
lol, lol, minutes restriction, Thibs? Stay off the bong...
Title: Pounding The Rock
Post by: chipstern on December 15, 2023, 11:06:52 AM
Julius
Jalen
RJ

Not just IQ

The ball was really moving against the Raptors.

Jazz?

Other than Julius, who looks to pass out of coverage. Not enough extra.passes, settling for threes, and missing a shitload.

So much for recent trends of extra passes and attacking the hoop.

Also, getting killed by treys and offensive boards.

And yes, Dawg, IQ does have stretches  of one on five.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 15, 2023, 12:40:27 PM
He is contract hunting this season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 15, 2023, 12:54:15 PM
Call San Antonio. See if IQ and Fournier can land us Keldon Johnson.

He makes 19 mil this year with a few years left on a declining contract, young enough to have health and energy and vet enough to know what he is doing. He is Pop trained and is putting up 17 with six boards and four dimes. Like Quickley, he is shooting about .380 from 3

I imagine we would need to sweeten things with draft capital, but I could see a Quickley, Sochan, Vassell perimeter going well with the Collins Wemby front court.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 15, 2023, 03:20:23 PM
IQ has won games for us at times when Brunson and others have faltered.

Take him out of the equation?

Yeah, you better get something awfully good in the return.
Title: Brunson
Post by: chipstern on December 16, 2023, 02:11:54 AM
50

9-9 From Three
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 16, 2023, 10:12:18 AM
Man what a statement!

Even more powerful coming off a subpar performance against the Jazz.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 16, 2023, 12:38:30 PM
mmm what a monster game for JB..wow.

And Julius keeps coming and coming, a couple iffy possessions late, but did not let himself get in a rut.

And Quick, responding to the withering Iso Zo chatter with excellent well-rounded minutes and one of his lowest FGA per M of the season.

Clippers should be fun. They're in a real nice groove...and a real test, unlike the Suns, who are one of the worst late game teams around. Could they possibly get less out of Durant when it counts? How long until he requests another trade?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 16, 2023, 02:22:43 PM
Julius is still an adventure when he over dribbles, but the transformation to His Game With a relentless NorthSouth ficus

A has been gratifying

As transcendent as JB was, my fave moment was when he made the steal and rewarded JR for galloping up the floor on the break with a highlight Dunk pass

JB = LeaderSHIP
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 18, 2023, 01:39:46 PM
I would look at cross matching Julius and Jericho defensively so Sims is taking the scoring threat and Jules can focus on rebounding and bodying up. They are about the same size but Jericho is more mobile and committed to defense.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 19, 2023, 12:45:10 PM
Terrific game last night. Randle incredible in first half. When that guy is confident, he's afraid of nothing. Brunson doing his thing in second half to seal the deal.

We don't have much margin for error with the top teams, so gotta have really strong performances from our best two players....last night we definitely did. And it still wouldn't have been enough without exceptional stuff from Hartenstein and IQ.

A glimpse of what it takes to be competitive at the top. Don't want to ignore Brooklyn, but it will be interesting to see what we do next week with the Bucks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 19, 2023, 04:19:50 PM
Don't sleep on the Nets

Nice to see IQ getting his MOJO back

PS: Every lameass Clickbait phantasy trade includes Hartenstein.  HELLO.
Title: Bucks Beckon
Post by: chipstern on December 20, 2023, 10:45:42 PM
Nice win in icing Nyets on their hone court. 

Donte's Inferno

Julius in beast mode.

Bucks Lillard catching fire.

Yikes
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 20, 2023, 11:53:48 PM
That was sweet. We are going to keep playing like that if we want to stay in the dead middle of our division.
Title: Nyce
Post by: carlos123 on December 21, 2023, 12:58:12 AM
I did not really dislike the Nyets when they were in the  bundocks, but in nyc? No, siiiiiire!
Just love to crush them.

PS. Where is Chamaco Cartero?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 21, 2023, 10:34:42 AM
Well, we gotta get a big.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 23, 2023, 02:56:52 AM
We should see if Dewayne Dedmon is still in shape. He is reportedly a bit of an asshole, but he always gives good minutes as a depth piece
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 23, 2023, 12:04:41 PM
Skapintsev moves up to two way status making him available for 50 games. Jaylen Martin probably stays in Westchester as a result.

Do not think it will help us much against the Bucks though
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 23, 2023, 02:53:25 PM
Wonder if Kam still feels the Bucks aren't a top tier team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 23, 2023, 07:53:51 PM
Quote from: elephant on December 23, 2023, 02:53:25 PM
Wonder if Kam still feels the Bucks aren't a top tier team.

Size, D, Shooting, Depth

And Middleton is back, con gusto. 
Title: Santa Brunson
Post by: chipstern on December 25, 2023, 03:41:48 PM
Great Win
Great Coaching.  We were prepared.  Had a scheme.  Purposeful timeouts to stymie Bucks runs.

Brunson, 38
Randle, 24
RJ, 21
IQ, 20
Hartenstein, 11
Hart, 10

We know there will be subsequent ups and downs, but that was a statement win. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 25, 2023, 04:05:54 PM
Merry fucking Christmas! Nice to get the split. Very nice to get a game like that. OKC on deck at their place
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 25, 2023, 04:28:36 PM
The Hartenstein, Randle, Hart, Quickley, Brunson closing group makes a lot of sense.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 25, 2023, 07:40:03 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 25, 2023, 04:28:36 PM
The Hartenstein, Randle, Hart, Quickley, Brunson closing group makes a lot of sense.

Yup
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on December 28, 2023, 09:04:13 AM
And missing the big man.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 28, 2023, 01:00:10 PM
Just when Knicks were fighting for a new level, the old one returns with a thud.

The Thunder game became an unexpected disaster. Or maybe just a regression. If the Knicks had simply just lost after fighting all game....no big deal. Oklahoma is for real.

But those last 4 minutes? Taking out IQ when he was arguably the best Knick out there last night was crazy. And putting in RJ? Even before RJ promptly threw the ball away, it was an awful move.

Trying to quote Thibs explanation....but the software isn't letting me get the message through. Basically he said that OKC had length with their wings, so there will be some switching and, hey, you've got to match up. 

Aside from the fact that we were down 8, and needed some quick offensive firepower, the reference to RJ as some long-limbed defensive stopper seems a bit...odd.

And then Randle picked the same time to complain over a bad non-call and basically stopped playing while OKC ran down for a key basket.

Just a fucked up reminder of the Knicks at their worst.

Onwards.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 28, 2023, 02:42:13 PM
So at some point, you gotta say, RJ is who RJ is and who RJ will be.

And that's not so great. His season averages precisely mirror his career averages. The pre-migraine consistency is well rear view mirror. He may reward us with a four game streak of good play right after this post, but he's as inadequate and inconsistent a starter as ole THjr. turned out to be.

Yeah Julius quit. But until then, gotta feel our PG's could have done a slightly better job making him the focus of the offense when OKC clearly couldn't handle the Randle.*** That goes for both JB and Quick, who despite the shooting, had some patented 22 second me-me possessions that really should be gotten rid of.

OKC beats folks, yes, but think some modifications are in order. Personally, I've been itching for some McBride time....


*** Not that he always passed out of the triple team, but it really would help if JH wasn't a shooting guard who can't shoot
Title: Dawg
Post by: chipstern on December 28, 2023, 03:22:51 PM
👍

👍 👍

👍 agree 👍
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 28, 2023, 04:03:24 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on December 28, 2023, 02:42:13 PM
So at some point, you gotta say, RJ is who RJ is and who RJ will be.

And that's not so great. His season averages precisely mirror his career averages. The pre-migraine consistency is well rear view mirror. He may reward us with a four game streak of good play right after this post, but he's as inadequate and inconsistent a starter as ole THjr. turned out to be.

Yeah Julius quit. But until then, gotta feel our PG's could have done a slightly better job making him the focus of the offense when OKC clearly couldn't handle the Randle.*** That goes for both JB and Quick, who despite the shooting, had some patented 22 second me-me possessions that really should be gotten rid of.

OKC beats folks, yes, but think some modifications are in order. Personally, I've been itching for some McBride time....


*** Not that he always passed out of the triple team, but it really would help if JH wasn't a shooting guard who can't shoot

Agree with the RJ stuff. Which is why I tend to not comment on his play, save that he has RARELY played well at the end of the game in his NBA career. He's definitely improved this year (at least until the migraines). That impressed me. And yeah, I also liked that it increased his value for any potential trades.

As for the other observations.

The guards could have done a "slightly better job" getting the ball to Randle. Like....okay?

IQ has discernible flaws. I mean...yeah. He also has the Knicks best +/- and his energy and passion has won us more than a few games. Just saying.

And McBride might really make a difference? Cuz you know, it's our guards that are the problem? Whatever. I suppose McBride might get some time if IQ is sent off in a trade. Otherwise, Thibs shows no sign of playing him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 30, 2023, 12:58:41 PM
Thank you RJ. Thank you IQ.

Welcome OG, Precious, and Malachi.

Roster in 2024, pending league approval

Hartenstein Gibson Mitch
Randle Achiuwa Sims
OG Hart Fournier Jefferies
Donte Grimes
Brunson McBride Flynn

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 30, 2023, 01:09:31 PM
OG seems like a great fit.

Price seems....extremely high.

I'll miss IQ's passion, energy....and the fucker hardly missed a foul shot. Perhaps they figured they couldn't pay him what he wants/deserves in the summer? Anyhow this hurts.

Lester's psychic desire for McBride is powerful!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 30, 2023, 01:56:31 PM
I forgot about Archi.

We waived Jefferies so the roster actually looks like this

Hartenstein Taj Mitch
Randle Achiuwa Sims
OG Hart Fournier
Donte Grimes Archi
Brunson McBride Flynn

We still have the injury exception and the likely Dallas first rounder as well as our own
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 30, 2023, 03:16:43 PM
We could have gone with Quickley over Brunson. We would now have a couple of years left of Quickley at a salary in the mid teens. Toronto will show us wether we choose right or wrong in that department.

I think Grimes and McBride can pick up all of the IQ slack.

I think Thibs has a team that is more capable of playing the way he wants to play than he did before the trade.

To me, Precious Achiuwa is the underrated piece here. He will let us take a little load off of Randle and bring bounce and power to the backup spot that we lost in Obi.

I think we traded angst and flair for fit and force and it only cost us one of the top picks in the second round.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 30, 2023, 03:38:12 PM
Quickley will probably make more than Brunson starting next year for the remainder of the cure contract Brunson is under. This is based on an expectation that IQ will do as well starting in Toronto as he did as a fill in starter for us.

Signing Quickley and keeping RJ would close a lot of doors to getting better for this team
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 30, 2023, 04:10:00 PM
If we are trying for a run now, rather than incremental progress, Fournier and draft capital for Jonathan Issac is the next call to make.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 30, 2023, 04:40:36 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 30, 2023, 04:10:00 PM
If we are trying for a run now, rather than incremental progress, Fournier and draft capital for Jonathan Issac is the next call to make.

Seriously?

Maybe we can make a run at Greg Oden and Gordon Hayward  while we're at it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on December 30, 2023, 05:18:06 PM
Poor Fournier! (poor, rich Fournier!)

There's a man who probably would have liked living in Toronto.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on December 30, 2023, 06:03:51 PM
Quote from: elephant on December 30, 2023, 01:09:31 PM
Lester's psychic desire for McBride is powerful!

Didn't realize the strength of my desires!

....well, it all kind of felt like it was coming.

IQ was playing for himself, and his coming contract, nothing wrong with that, but I do prefer Deuce. I don't have to see those 21 second possessions that were clearly pissing off some of his teammates as well as me. Yes, IQ is a superior offensive talent. May regret it. So be it.

RJ, I've spoken at length on, looked like he'd lost his spark lately, maybe knew it was coming, may he bloom at last in his native North.

OG, I've never been wowed by, but surely can see the fit.

Let's go, whatever, bully ball Thibs style!




* Still, we've just gotten rid of ALL THE YOUNG TALENT (Quick, RJ, Toppin) folks were HOWLING about including in a Donovan trade and for it we've landed offensive weaponary powerful enough for a good high school team. (Hart, OG)

You win championships with TRANSCENDENT OFFENSIVE TALENT. I'd rather have seen that package go in any kind of Ainge-fleecing (Yeah Markannen would sure have been fantastic, would I throw in the draft pick bundle too for Lauri? You'd better believe it!).

But whatever...I'm tired of complaining. LFG with this crew.

*** and if incremental changes are the order of the day, I'm all in on Jonathan Isaac for scraps deal, always liked him despite the fact that he's an anti-vax chowderhead and, as Chip points out...NEVER PLAYS. But, we actually kinda need Fournier now. Who on that second unit can play-make at all besides Deuce?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 30, 2023, 07:00:22 PM
Dawg, OG is the full.sized, 3&D SF we've been pining for.  Top.tier defender, doesn't NEED the ball, and can score inside and out. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on December 30, 2023, 07:02:57 PM
Wondering if Dejounte Murray might be in play

Fournier, Grimes, a couple of #1 picks.

Just a thought.  Excellent defender.  Can shoot the three.  6'5"

We shall see.
Title: Dejounte Murray
Post by: chipstern on December 30, 2023, 09:43:07 PM
Quote from: chipstern on December 30, 2023, 07:02:57 PM
Wondering if Dejounte Murray might be in play

Fournier, Grimes, a couple of #1 picks.

Just a thought.  Excellent defender.  Can shoot the three.  6'5"

We shall see.

DiVincenzo might have something to say about THAT
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 31, 2023, 01:31:18 AM
He had 38 points on 21 shots and chipped in 6 rebounds tonight. That is saying something.

Murray has not been the defensive player he was in San Antonio during his time in Atlanta so far.

Wolves on Monday looks likely to be the fourth drop in a row.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 31, 2023, 01:30:07 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on December 30, 2023, 12:58:41 PM
Thank you RJ. Thank you IQ.

(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjEOkO7rw9fKHNdaQMj-gS7-1lksYK9d8iZ_u6aP-nPTaFSYQQQdJzekRWCOe7ESU1HT0xFGm4ZdZzYo0_oBgjENWMjZddJz20IpUG_BlCouLSBBLPvcnDZVEsmRW7ssliXSFkS1sPSQEs_4hELHlh_pzy28qK_X87lGoxUeAO7PMSe8VBeK2xDH-oaNB1j/w640-h258/Screen%20Shot%202023-12-31%20at%201.26.32%20PM.png)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 31, 2023, 01:40:13 PM
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjump3qfE1raA9BKwmetZ9hu3YMaX6x4_UacXNb_A8TWF1T7acZs3O5R8k-IxNLyf-YMFV5Gjfis5MRKpOeDLhMCp22afverfAEhgY42ZRBQxpElsjOEb3gCLzeZIu0BOlpGtPhBRYsZ-tl82Ic2Y-qv_4ENQyryiMa94inlUFYS6bfXuLdZAM7tmqTCVwj/w640-h504/Screen%20Shot%202023-12-31%20at%201.36.52%20PM.png)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 31, 2023, 01:41:07 PM
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhypHRY8tXcC321IoruIDACyijqtlC-MNardXJCMfdUOnSZFVZPtWrCi_jGByTswMW-0DLOsKy8tAfGhS2_ML1g16eqpe_zfJBkNyjE2hcin9E5NgzPEq4_7adBr-KY0-apZdyiBlfX661bvcvdZJNrcd_prZVXadSNyFX9zJQQZO32BfaXRMSjhZG_3pJ5/w396-h640/Screen%20Shot%202023-12-31%20at%201.37.37%20PM.png)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on December 31, 2023, 01:41:55 PM
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiajMkmzW0d9HL7pTPqLodceqtD5pf3k52KGGUxe2ac5Iynsv91-fuWJAaVYoDHm8sysCqXDbY67Sjv9IVKnaft4pvmTSgZvXRiTHaGOevn0wgJABLPY0OgZhYhaLCyfZr9p4Zy9ilwT-eMePOCLSwos34w372oAnijDxoN8UOZnga6cFR6eiThMtzrwNxc/w640-h506/Screen%20Shot%202023-12-31%20at%201.35.51%20PM.png)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on December 31, 2023, 05:14:08 PM
A new look is on the horizon. Donte is making a good case for picking up some offensive production.

We have real forwards beyond Julius.

I am excited to see how it all looks on the floor.

Peace and prosperity to you all in the new year
Title: 🍸🌹🍸
Post by: chipstern on January 01, 2024, 12:25:46 AM

🌜🌓🌛
Title: 🍸🎨🍸
Post by: chipstern on January 01, 2024, 04:26:04 PM
Knick On Wood

So Far

SO GOOD

🌹⏰️🌹
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 01, 2024, 05:43:11 PM
OG looking....just right.

Randle keeps getting better. Motherfucker has no fear.

Alas Brunson is in a funk shooting-wise and almost took us down. Last 4 games...27 for 79!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 01, 2024, 06:04:12 PM
Good Defense can always take away something. Brunson did have an uncharacteristically high number of assists.

OG looks just right. I hope he can keep it up.

Our bench needs to adjust. So far Hart and Grimes have a bit of a groove.

We also get to see how our castoffs look in their new home this evening.

Very good win to start the year
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 02, 2024, 01:38:34 AM
At this point I think both teams can feel like they have won the trade.
Title: Leon Facilatron
Post by: chipstern on January 02, 2024, 03:48:23 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 02, 2024, 01:38:34 AM
At this point I think both teams can feel like they have won the trade.

Rose fulfilling his Facil Function to a T

Signing Donte for 12 x 4

A trade with Toronto that benefits both teams.

OG and Donte not just hitting threes, but a new look emphasis on cutters and motion from our two newest defensive firebrands.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 02, 2024, 11:39:15 AM
I hope Thibs and Taj have resolved to help Precious reach his potential. We need him to be high impact if we want to make noise and a deep run.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 02, 2024, 11:11:57 PM
Donte's play takes the sting out of losing IQ and he's a lot cheaper as IQ is seeking twice the salary.

OG is a breath of old Knicks defensive flavor.   He's like an X-man or Sprewell/Anthony Mason hybrid.

I'm interested in how the minutes shake out, but on paper i'd guess;

iHart 36 min / Precious 12 min
Randle 36 min / OG 12 min   
OG 24 min / Hart 24 min
Donte 24 min / Grimes 24 min
Brunson 36 min / Deuce 12 min


This assumes Deuce can hold down the backup PG spot and Grimes bounces all the way back to form.  If Grimes plays well I wouldn't rule out him getting his starting job back if Donte struggles to defend. On the other hand if Grimes or even Deuce falters I could see Donte picking up some of that slack with more minutes.   I don't see Malachi Flynn getting much run until he can prove himself in practice to Thibs.  Precious is the wildcard guy.  He's another swiss army knife defender.  He had a tough first matchup vs Gobert but he could be deployed against multiple positions, taking the other teams primary frontcourt weapon if OG is guarding a guard on the perimeter. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 03, 2024, 12:38:48 AM
I like Donte in with OG among the starters. It gives us two cutters, two guys who pass and move and work well in opposite corners.

I think the tinkering is going to be mainly on the bench side of the equation.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 03, 2024, 02:32:28 PM
Think you are right.

Not sure I see any BIG moves on the horizon.

Fournier, Grimes + draft capital for DeJounte Murray is a popular phantasy.  Not sure Leon wants to shoot his load on Murray, with other opportunities prrsenting themselves
in free agency this summer, but he would be a very good fit, with Donte and Deuce ruddering the second unit.

Some Facebook Fantasies urge us to pursue Bones Hyland, which to be mentioned in the same breath as IQ, is deeply offensive, IQ being about team, Hyland a no defense street punk only about himself. 

Elsewhere, cries for DeRozan  and Drummond, who do not seem to be on the market.  Let alone desirable.

We'll see them both tonight in any event.

PS: Rooting for Precious to find his center of gravity
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 03, 2024, 03:08:37 PM
Just saw Malcolm Brogdon's name floated as a possible target.

And so the women cone and gi, speaking of MichelAngelo.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 03, 2024, 03:17:21 PM
If Precious does not get it done up front, I think getting another look there should be more of a priority than IQ replacement. No disrespect to Taj.

Ainge likes picks. People talk about Kelly as a target, and he would definitely elevate and expand our tool set. The Jazz also have numerous long players on the bench who get no burn. A protected pick or two from our stash plus Malachi or Archidiacino for Luka Samanic or Omer Yurtseven would be a smaller, simpler play in that direction.

Better yet, Precious could find his beast mode and we could be set.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 03, 2024, 11:13:49 PM
Hartenstein
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 04, 2024, 01:03:53 AM
Quote from: chipstern on January 03, 2024, 02:32:28 PM
Some Facebook Fantasies urge us to pursue Bones Hyland, which to be mentioned in the same breath as IQ, is deeply offensive, IQ being about team, Hyland a no defense street punk only about himself.

You're way too hard on Bones Hyland, even if Kidd did have a crush on the guy.

He's no punk. And he plays exuberantly in the mode of Maxey and IQ. He's got real value and someone is gonna grab him at a discount rate.

In any case, we can all agree that's not an essential move for the Knicks right now.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 04, 2024, 01:13:06 AM
Nice win tonight. OG lets us play base D which leaves Jules and JB with something in the tank for fourth quarters. Still some wrinkles but there is hope we might get there.

Philly on Friday is a big test.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 05, 2024, 06:00:24 AM
Quote from: elephant on January 04, 2024, 01:03:53 AM
Quote from: chipstern on January 03, 2024, 02:32:28 PM
Some Facebook Fantasies urge us to pursue Bones Hyland, which to be mentioned in the same breath as IQ, is deeply offensive, IQ being about team, Hyland a no defense street punk only about himself.

You're way too hard on Bones Hyland, even if Kidd did have a crush on the guy.

He's no punk. And he plays exuberantly in the mode of Maxey and IQ. He's got real value and someone is gonna grab him at a discount rate.

In any case, we can all agree that's not an essential move for the Knicks right now.

Hyland sucks

By the way.  Kiid was a bigtime DiVincenzo enthusiast, so credits where credits are due.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 05, 2024, 10:14:50 AM
Quote from: chipstern on January 05, 2024, 06:00:24 AM
Quote from: elephant on January 04, 2024, 01:03:53 AM
Quote from: chipstern on January 03, 2024, 02:32:28 PM
Some Facebook Fantasies urge us to pursue Bones Hyland, which to be mentioned in the same breath as IQ, is deeply offensive, IQ being about team, Hyland a no defense street punk only about himself.

You're way too hard on Bones Hyland, even if Kidd did have a crush on the guy.

He's no punk. And he plays exuberantly in the mode of Maxey and IQ. He's got real value and someone is gonna grab him at a discount rate.

In any case, we can all agree that's not an essential move for the Knicks right now.

Hyland sucks

By the way.  Kiid was a bigtime DiVincenzo enthusiast, so credits where credits are due.

Geez, when did you become an online blowhard?

How many times have you actually watched the guy play?

Whatever. I knew almost nothing about DiVincenzo, so everything about him...especially his scrappiness...has been a nice revelation.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 05, 2024, 10:56:44 PM
Julius is off and we win going away. Sweeeet!

Deuce the turning point. So great to see Grimes coming back to form; looks like he's gonna get his chances.

Meanwhile, the Hart+Heart Machine just doing their thing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 05, 2024, 10:57:12 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 04, 2024, 01:13:06 AM
Philly on Friday is a big test.

I take it we pass the test?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on January 05, 2024, 11:59:29 PM
FORMIDABLE.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 06, 2024, 12:01:17 AM
Oh we passed. Let us not give it back against the Wizards.

We may not need to spend 30 mil and three draft picks on some dude to generate bench scoring.

Hartenstein might could do prime Noah things. Over the last two games combined he certainly did.

I am good paying Hartenstein Mitch money to keep him around past this year. He may crack 20 which I am ok with as well.

I am more than good with the stars we got. Let us keep getting better and winning games.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 06, 2024, 11:00:06 PM
We nicely handled the Wiz and as a reward get to sit by ourselves in 4th for a minute, a whisker above the 5-8 fray.

We should be in no hurry to shake things up going forward. We have very nice makings of a very nice team.
Title: Oh, Canada
Post by: chipstern on January 08, 2024, 07:43:17 AM
MEANWHILE, a shout out to all the RJ Haters I the blogosphere   Dropped 37 in an annihilation of the Warriors, on 12-20, 5-8 from trey and zero turnovers.

Loving OG, a better fit for our Knicks, but as the main sled dog in Toronto, RJ should flourish.  Happy for him.
Title: Re: Oh, Canada
Post by: carlos123 on January 08, 2024, 10:36:34 AM
Quote from: chipstern on January 08, 2024, 07:43:17 AM
MEANWHILE, a shout out to all the RJ Haters I the blogosphere   Dropped 37 in an annihilation of the Warriors, on 12-20, 5-8 from trey and zero turnovers.

Loving OG, a better fit for our Knicks, but as the main sled dog in Toronto, RJ should flourish.  Happy for him.

And IQ 10 assists in 26 minutes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 08, 2024, 12:21:32 PM
Very much a win-win.

I wonder if this leads Toronto to pull Siakam from the market
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 09, 2024, 07:22:29 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 08, 2024, 12:21:32 PM
Very much a win-win.

I wonder if this leads Toronto to pull Siakam from the market

Siakim has declared he will not sign an extension for anyone.

Meanwhile, do the Knicks really want to pursue a DEAL?

Asking for a blowhard

PS: Yet another DNP for one Bones Hyland.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 09, 2024, 12:22:17 PM
Words matter. When the typically thoughtful Facilitatorn called young Hyland a punk, I objected because that term harshly designates things that (I believe) in no way fits Bones Hyland.

When you followed by saying the guy "sucks." Well, you know, that's the kind of casual web shit that you typically rail against. I asked how much you saw the guy play. Don't recall an answer.

Anyhoo.

Bones was playing for the Clippers before a certain player named Harden went to the team. Then he got relegated to the bench. I don't recall you correlating DNP w/basic suckitude when Mr. McBride didn't get into games.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 09, 2024, 12:32:58 PM
I do not remember weighing in on Hyland. I do not think of him as a punk. I hope you have misattributed that. If not I retract it.

I would say Bones has not demonstrated the defensive chops or the ball control and discipline to improve our roster or crack our rotations. For a guy like that I would rather take a chance in the draft.

If we are going to tinker with this team again, finding someone healthy who can play credible drop coverage behind Hartenstein would help us avoid falloff when he sits. That should be the type of player we target.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 09, 2024, 01:46:41 PM
Shit!

My bad. You never said that. Chip did.

Sorry for the careless attribution.
Title: Buyouts
Post by: chipstern on January 09, 2024, 01:50:24 PM
Found an article in Clickbait land,  discussing post Trade deadline buyout candidates.

Two identified as "of interest" to the Knicks?

Gordon Hayward
Kelly Olnyk.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 09, 2024, 02:14:56 PM
Thought your Hyland-McBride juxtaposition interesting.

The difference?

Deuce did not publicly throw hissy fits in frustration as per his usage. 

Kept his powder dry, did his work, and stayed ready for an.opportunity. 

Bones made a public stink, disrespected his team mates. 

Perhaps I am a blowhard.  You make a good case. 

However, Bones is a one dimensiona no D  chucker, now buried on the Clippers bench.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 09, 2024, 05:16:42 PM
Whatever happened in Denver, the man is not on the bench in L.A. because he disrespected or disrespects anyone.

By all accounts, he's handling it the right way. They like the young guy.

But you know....let's move on.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 09, 2024, 05:34:13 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 09, 2024, 05:16:42 PM
Whatever happened in Denver, the man is not on the bench in L.A. because he disrespected or disrespects anyone.

By all accounts, he's handling it the right way. They like the young guy.

But you know....let's move on.

🌹🌓🌹
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 09, 2024, 10:58:02 PM
I like the blowouts. They preserve the starter legs and give the bench mob reps. Seems like Hart, Grimes and Deuce might be able to adequately cover anything we might have asked of RJ or IQ.

I would not mind gunning for a buyout guy or possibly a glut cut after a trade if one reaches us on waivers. Gordy and Kelly might be pie in the sky.

I like that our mainstays in this rotation are sturdy guys who give and take a pounding pretty well compared even to NBA standards. Picture this group with a healthy Mitch and a game ready rookie from the next class. As fun as it is, it could get even better without a reaching overpay.

I am loving how this team is connecting right now. Big chefs kiss.

The Mavs tomorrow will be a much much stiffer test.
Title: Shiny Objects
Post by: chipstern on January 10, 2024, 02:55:32 PM
No more moves

We have a roster and growing  hemistry

🍸🌓🍸
Title: Re: Shiny Objects
Post by: facilitatorn on January 10, 2024, 10:56:34 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 10, 2024, 02:55:32 PM
No more moves

We have a roster and growing  hemistry

🍸🌓🍸

Is Bismarck Byombo a shiny object, assuming he falls far enough down we can get him on waivers?

He has been playing pretty well for the Grizz, is cheap, has been around the league, and is more imposing than either Precious or Sims. I think of him more as a still somewhat bouncy fire hydrant than a shine guy. What is your opinion?

Asking for a friend with a salary slot and a trade exception to play with
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 10, 2024, 11:02:17 PM
Got the date wrong on the Mavs game. I am worried about this one. Too many of their guys can go off.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 11, 2024, 12:17:19 PM
Special Goodbye From A Special Young Man...Always In Our Hearts

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/posts/immanuel-quickley-basketball-nba-new-york-knicks?fbclid=IwAR2l0GjgtlYDq828Rp5cj6hDyj61U9FPukw323IucInDpglaqYWGHFk-M_A
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 11, 2024, 01:55:29 PM
......aw!

I'm gonna miss Quick a lot.

**** except for those semi-regular me-dribble 22 second possessions.

The ball is just humming around now with him and mr. tunnel-vision gone. Even Jalen has cut down on the MYTURNZ. And there's no two ways about it, the defensive intensity ratchets up even higher when everybody feels like they might touch it on the other end. Human basketball nature.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 11, 2024, 11:12:59 PM
Tim Hardaway & Kyrie had just enough. We finally drop one. Hope this is not the start of a trend.
Title: Trend?
Post by: carlos123 on January 12, 2024, 12:28:17 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 11, 2024, 11:12:59 PM
Tim Hardaway & Kyrie had just enough. We finally drop one. Hope this is not the start of a trend.

Of course not. Are you not a PP anymore? You were actually PP#2.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 12, 2024, 01:30:42 AM
Trending positive while recognizing there is work to do and also tempering expectations
Title: Re: Shiny Objects
Post by: chipstern on January 12, 2024, 01:04:38 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 10, 2024, 10:56:34 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 10, 2024, 02:55:32 PM
No more moves

We have a roster and growing  hemistry

🍸🌓🍸

Is Bismarck Byombo a shiny object, assuming he falls far enough down we can get him on waivers?

He has been playing pretty well for the Grizz, is cheap, has been around the league, and is more imposing than either Precious or Sims. I think of him more as a still somewhat bouncy fire hydrant than a shine guy. What is your opinion?

Asking for a friend with a salary slot and a trade exception to play with

Daniel Gafford if he is in play, as has been intimated, for what THAT's worth, on the ClickBait-o-Sphere.   

More size, more game.  Is 25.  BB is 31. 

We could give them back their #1, Sims?  Much as I would like to keep Jericho. 

Achuwa and Gafford would give us coverage at the 4&5. 

Anyway, Gafford makes more sense than going all in on Brogdan or Murray, the latter who will be costly. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 12, 2024, 01:12:42 PM
13 mil a year for two years following this one. That is a bit shiny, if we are keeping Mitch and signing Hartenstein. Bismack has a flat matte finish comparatively
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 12, 2024, 03:00:56 PM
But I could go for Gafford and a sweetener.

Gafford and Avdija for Mitch, the worse of our or Dallas this year and a their own pick back.

Hartenstein Gafford Sims
Randle Avdija Achuiwa
OG Hart Fournier
Donte Grimes Archi
Brunson McBride Flynn

That would give us the best bench in the league and make us finals contenders.

It helps the Wiz tank and gives them a better future backstop, once Mitch heals, for turnstiles Kuzma and Poole.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 12, 2024, 04:23:36 PM
Mitch for WHAT?????

Ya clearly drunk. Might as well be Mitch for two pimples on my ass.
Title: 👍 🐶
Post by: carlos123 on January 12, 2024, 04:33:30 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on January 12, 2024, 04:23:36 PM
Mitch for WHAT?????

Ya clearly drunk. Might as well be Mitch for two pimples on my ass.

That is MY DOGGIE!!! 🐶
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 12, 2024, 05:42:51 PM
....like we're gonna give up 48 minute of rim protection and the league's strongest offensive rebounder for bits, pieces and specks.

SHOOT ME.

Title: Facil
Post by: chipstern on January 12, 2024, 07:43:04 PM
No fucking way I'm trading Mitch, or bringing the Israeli kid on to sit next to Fournier on the bench.

Are you fucking high, Fac?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 12, 2024, 08:25:58 PM
You are replacing Mitch with, Gafford, a slightly smaller guy who is cost controlled at about 6 mil less per year, a good number for a backup on a contending team. You are adding a 22 year old 6-9 wing who is averaging 12 pts on 50 percent shooting and north of 35 on 3s, close to 6 boards and 4 dimes when given minutes, and who busts his ass getting over screens, contesting at the rim and getting back to shooters on the joke team that is the Wiz.

I see working Mitch into shape potentially hurting us down the stretch. I have doubts he will happily take a seat behind Hartenstein if it is warranted either in the short or long term. He was already complaining about shots when he could play as long as he had fouls to give. I see this as a potential sell high moment to get two of the grittier guys from a terrible team that might want an upgrade and benefits from showing patience, either of whom would lift our top 9. We could show really long lineups defensively.

Once we lock up OG, the salary we will be carrying will leave us very constrained. In light of that I am interested in looking at moves that gets work done prior to the signing period.

Title: Re: Facil
Post by: facilitatorn on January 12, 2024, 08:29:54 PM
Quote from: chipstern on January 12, 2024, 07:43:04 PM
No fucking way I'm trading Mitch, or bringing the Israeli kid on to sit next to Fournier on the bench.

Are you fucking high, Fac?

Not as high as I get listening to live samba and standards at The Negociant Winery in Hillcrest, though I might still have a little buzz.

It is dog friendly and my pooch loves a good trombone run
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 13, 2024, 09:58:59 AM
 🍸👁🍸
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 13, 2024, 11:09:02 PM
Another night at the office. 6-1 in the OG era. Deuce is clearly getting more comfortable. It is a pretty safe bet that IQ will make more than Brunson and Deuce combined the next couple of years.

The halftime speech from Thibs must have been something for the ages. I cannot imagine he was too pleased with the way we started out this game.
Title: Asking For A Friend
Post by: chipstern on January 14, 2024, 05:54:22 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 13, 2024, 11:09:02 PM
Another night at the office. 6-1 in the OG era. Deuce is clearly getting more comfortable. It is a pretty safe bet that IQ will make more than Brunson and Deuce combined the next couple of years.

The halftime speech from Thibs must have been something for the ages. I cannot imagine he was too pleased with the way we started out this game.

Cedi Osman?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 14, 2024, 10:57:35 PM
Who would you send back? It has to be in the ballpark of 6.7 mil.

Cedi and McBuckets for Evan would work though we would have to sweeten it and both players would be rentals.

We could wait for the buyout market instead.

Magic afternoon game is going to be a lot of trouble even without the junior Wagner suiting up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 15, 2024, 06:28:59 PM
The Magical mystery tour is coming to make the Knicks play. Who will pull away today?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 16, 2024, 12:36:00 AM
Damn it. So close.

Liked what I saw from Deuce, Donte and OG.

D was a step slow at times if we wanted a win.

I envy Orlando their deep stable of bigs.

I am good risking another loss or two resting Brunson and getting McBride first string reps
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 17, 2024, 01:46:00 PM
Buddy Hield and Jordan Nwora for Fournier Grimes and a pick or package.

Grimes gives minutes behind Mathurin. They may or may not get something out of Fournier. They need minutes for Jarice Walker and the have James Johnson in case of emergency, so have no plans for Nwora.

It would give us a potential bench mob of Precious, Nwora, Hart, Hield, McBride. It gives us better defensive matchups and probably more scoring in the minutes the reserves play.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 17, 2024, 04:40:09 PM
Nwora going to Raptors along with  Bruce Brown and three #1 picks for Siakim

Curses
Foiled Again
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 17, 2024, 06:05:01 PM
Fucking Pacers.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 17, 2024, 06:07:57 PM
Yeah, but the pacers are waiving James Johnson.

Pick him up. Buyout Fournier and grab Bismack Byombo.

Hartenstein Byombo Sims Mitch
Randle Achuiwa
OG Hart Johnson
Donte Grimes Archi
Brunson McBride Flynn

It gets you experienced front court guys who are competent physical and up to speed in their roles and gives you an option between resting a key guy or being physically out matched. I am thinking particularly about Randle and his ankle.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 17, 2024, 06:46:02 PM
Pacers may have passed the Sixers with this deal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 17, 2024, 10:57:48 PM
What I would call a blueprint win against the Rockets.

What is up w Jericho Sims? I would think he might be worth a look either beside Precious or OG I would think he has some complimentary skills especially against second unit guys.

I still like picking up an extra big before March rolls around with the post season cut off. No real worries till then if we can stay healthy and keep stacking up wins.

The Hawks Magic game was fun. DM helped us in the standings with his final shot.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 17, 2024, 11:18:30 PM
Rockets are not as good a team without Tari Eason.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 18, 2024, 11:57:06 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 17, 2024, 10:57:48 PM

What is up w Jericho Sims? I would think he might be worth a look either beside Precious or OG I would think he has some complimentary skills especially against second unit guys.


That's a good question about Sims. He seemed to be progressing nicely. Played hard. Not a disappointment.

And then....he's out completely.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 18, 2024, 05:05:15 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 18, 2024, 11:57:06 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 17, 2024, 10:57:48 PM

What is up w Jericho Sims? I would think he might be worth a look either beside Precious or OG I would think he has some complimentary skills especially against second unit guys.


That's a good question about Sims. He seemed to be progressing nicely. Played hard. Not a disappointment.

And then....he's out completely.

Believe Thibs perceives Precious to be more skilled, all around.  Not that Achuwa has really stood out offensively.
Title: The Facil Zone
Post by: chipstern on January 18, 2024, 05:09:26 PM
Out in ClickBait land, an orgy of trade targets.

Bruce Brown
Jordan Clarkson
Kelly Olynk
Malcolm Brogdon
Dejounte Murray
Terry Rozier
Alec Burks

I suspect something under the radar or standing pat.
Title: Re: Skuttlebutt
Post by: facilitatorn on January 18, 2024, 05:26:33 PM
The New York Knicks are primarily dangling the expiring contract of Evan Fournier, young asset Quentin Grimes, and draft pick compensation for a potential upgrade, league sources told HoopsHype. The Knicks are doing their due diligence and looking at various players across the league, including Hornets guard Terry Rozier, Blazers guard Malcolm Brogdon, former Tom Thibodeau favorite Alec Burks, sources said. In addition, the Knicks are surveying the trade market for a backup power forward, league sources told HoopsHype.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 18, 2024, 10:58:56 PM
Brunson in star mode tonight!

Bagley impressive for the Wiz. We could have used some of that.

Bummed about the Grimes talk. Think he needs more opportunities since Barrett was traded. I trust management because their deals of the last couple years seem shrewd, but I'd hate to see Quentin replaced with some of the names that have arisen.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 18, 2024, 11:15:14 PM
Glad we got the win though I prefer it when we throttle teams to when we pull out squeakers.

Nice work by Jalen, OG, Isiah and Julius.

Every trade now seems to kick a guy off the end of a roster. There may be a low key thing that makes sense to do before too long. We have the trade exception and a roster spot.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 19, 2024, 12:44:36 PM
There are rumors that the Jazz are interested in Grimes.

I tried this trade and it worked

Grimes, Flynn and Sims for Taylor Hendricks and Omer Yurtseven

It moves marginal pieces for young frontcourt depth we can take into the future

Hartenstein Yurtseven Robinson
Randle Achuiwa Hendricks
Anonoby Hart Fournier
DiVincenzo Archi
Brunson McBride

It has us hunting for guard depth but that is easier to find than quality front court guys. 

RJ and IQ revenge game Saturday. I do not like our odds
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 19, 2024, 01:29:56 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 18, 2024, 10:58:56 PM
Brunson in star mode tonight!

Bagley impressive for the Wiz. We could have used some of that.

Bummed about the Grimes talk. Think he needs more opportunities since Barrett was traded. I trust management because their deals of the last couple years seem shrewd, but I'd hate to see Quentin replaced with some of the names that have arisen.

Grimes talk bums me as well.

High character cat.  Been out if sorts, behind Donte and Josh.
Title: Homecoming
Post by: chipstern on January 20, 2024, 10:06:25 PM
That was fun
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 20, 2024, 11:17:24 PM
We let it get interesting early.

It would be very good if this were a lightbulb game for Precious.

Rough stretch ahead on the schedule
Title: Say whaa t?
Post by: carlos123 on January 21, 2024, 01:05:15 AM
Quote from: Fac on January 20, 2024, 11:17:24 PM

Rough stretch ahead on the schedule

You mean the poor Nyets? 🤣
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 21, 2024, 01:44:33 AM
Than the Nuggets. Then the Heat.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on January 21, 2024, 10:25:54 AM
Probably an L and a W.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 21, 2024, 06:46:19 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 21, 2024, 10:25:54 AM
Probably an L and a W.

Oh, you scared little poodle.

We're winning both of those games.
Title: I confess
Post by: carlos123 on January 21, 2024, 07:31:18 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 21, 2024, 06:46:19 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on January 21, 2024, 10:25:54 AM
Probably an L and a W.

Oh, you scared little poodle.

We're winning both of those games.

I confess Nikola scares me to death ☠️

Maybe I am wrong? 😍
Title: Precious & Jericho
Post by: chipstern on January 22, 2024, 03:54:03 PM
Hartenstein is a game time decision for the Nyets. 

[Sore FOOT & ANKLE]

The baptism of fire awaits Achuwa and Sims.  Nyets have good centers.

As for Denver, I would not be surprised to see OG draw the Jokic cover for significant stretches of time. 

Denver is a great team, and Murray versus Brunson is a premier matchup.

Still, even for a team of the Nuggets depth and stature, there are no gimmes.  That goes double for the Nyets on their home court.

GO KNICKS. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 23, 2024, 01:35:48 PM
We get to see Rozier on the Heat pretty soon. Good pickup by Miami. He is having a good season and has more in the tank than Lowry
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 23, 2024, 04:17:04 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 23, 2024, 01:35:48 PM
We get to see Rozier on the Heat pretty soon. Good pickup by Miami. He is having a good season and has more in the tank than Lowry

If we could hook up with Lowry as a buyout, would that be of interest to Trader Facil?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 23, 2024, 06:49:34 PM
Nets can be tough. Gotta stop the Cams running us out the gym.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 23, 2024, 11:21:06 PM
Just enough of just enough and we escaped Brooklyn with the win.

Randle, Achuiwa and Anonoby looked like a functional and tough small ball frontcourt.

Who was the better sub, Deuce or Dennis?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 24, 2024, 12:39:41 PM
The switch with Barrett and OG has been both revelatory and obvious. Love the Brunson/Randle 30-30 club.

If our two stars are healthy, and we have a healthy center, the starting unit is cohesive, tenacious and formidable. Can give a fight to any other team in a series.

But something has to shift with the 2nd unit. Who are they? Can a personality/energy emerge that we've had in past years? And of course, we need at least one badass who can come off the bench and light it up....especially when Randle or Brunson is off.

A few years ago, that somebody was Alex Burks who won a slew of games for the Knicks. And of course, in the last year of two, that was IQ. Who steps in or up now?

Is Brogdon our best trade target for just this role?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 24, 2024, 03:56:49 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 24, 2024, 12:39:41 PM
The switch with Barrett and OG has been both revelatory and obvious. Love the Brunson/Randle 30-30 club.

If our two stars are healthy, and we have a healthy center, the starting unit is cohesive, tenacious and formidable. Can give a fight to any other team in a series.

But something has to shift with the 2nd unit. Who are they? Can a personality/energy emerge that we've had in past years? And of course, we need at least one badass who can come off the bench and light it up....especially when Randle or Brunson is off.

A few years ago, that somebody was Alex Burks who won a slew of games for the Knicks. And of course, in the last year of two, that was IQ. Who steps in or up now?

Is Brogdon our best trade target for just this role?

My vote would be for Brogdon

I suspect it's going to be BURKS 2.1
Title: Sharks Vs. Jets
Post by: chipstern on January 24, 2024, 04:00:23 PM
Loved that savage Sharks Vs. Jets scrum with OG, Precious and Josh, Hart's ballerina out of bounds save and outlet and the Holzman fast break  between Brunson and Randle.  I was screaming at the tube.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 24, 2024, 06:38:31 PM
Let us stay close enough that heroics matter against Denver. They are all around tough and opportunistic. Toughest test of the year so far
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 25, 2024, 08:35:19 PM
Excellent first half

Focused D

Minimizing turnovers

Good play by second unit

Achuwa, OG, Hart, Grimes, McBride

Still nursing a kead
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 25, 2024, 10:16:38 PM
Holy crap. It is gonna be hard to stay focused on business if we keep thumping teams like that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 25, 2024, 10:20:33 PM
Wow

🌩🍾🌩
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 25, 2024, 11:25:28 PM
Right now I do not see what Brown can do for us.

We have a roster spot available in the buyout market and can make a second one by freeing Fournier.

I want to keep everyone that is contributing to this magical stretch of marvelous basketball.

When we are good we are pretty damn good and we can keep getting better.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on January 26, 2024, 12:20:37 AM
December 1968, the Debusschere trade.
December 2023, the Anunoby trade.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 26, 2024, 07:31:50 PM
It's hard knowing what to say about that game. OG showed the range of his game...and it was awesome.
And good for Grimes; I love his aggression and (hated how he's been relegated to a 3-point sniper when he has a more complete arsenal). And how about the fire Sims came out with in defending Jovik? You could see him working. High energy.

Fuck....everyone was tremendous. Don't remember when I've seen them play a more complete game.

And while it's great when Randle and Brunson each get their 30. we're much more dangerous when the other guys step up like this.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 27, 2024, 09:01:45 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on January 26, 2024, 12:20:37 AM
December 1968, the Debusschere trade.
December 2023, the Anunoby trade.

Willis went down

Now Julius
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 27, 2024, 09:09:15 PM
First, it is always good to beat the heat.

Next, I hope that MRI looks good.

We should be able to pace our pursuers while Jules takes his time. Suit up Jacob Toppin. Use Precious at the 4 a bunch and some OG. Good thing I Heart is back or we would be screwed. And we hope for a clean heal and keep an eye on the buyout market.

Healing his shoulder rests Julius legs while giving expanded opportunities to our other guys who need to tune themselves up for a deep run.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 28, 2024, 06:13:49 AM
Waiting on the MRI

Damn shame

Julius was in such a peaceful place

Hartenstein, Sims
Achuwah, OG, Hart
OG, Hart, Grimes
DiVincenzo, Grimes, Fournier
Brunson, McBride, Flynn

We are nurturing two PFs in Westchester, Toppin and Roby. We also have that Lithuanian center who was on a two way for three days
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 28, 2024, 12:38:15 PM
I cannot believe I forgot about Roby. Thanks, Chip!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 28, 2024, 04:42:43 PM
For the love of God, Leon.

No quick  fixes

No transactions for the sake of transactions

Chemistry

NO TRADES
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 28, 2024, 08:10:26 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on January 28, 2024, 12:38:15 PM
I cannot believe I forgot about Roby. Thanks, Chip!

Toppin is on a two way

Not sure about Roby...don't think so
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 28, 2024, 11:38:32 PM
We still have a roster spot open from the OG trade.

Assuming a clear MRI and no setbacks, Jules will be out through allstar break at least.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 29, 2024, 04:03:06 AM
I just checked in on Westchester.

Roby and Jefferies are hurt. They played the Mad Ants and Jacob had 32 points and 8 boards including the drive to go up one and the defensive rebound at the buzzer. He has a pretty huge green light down there, but has size, bounce, and some skills that will translate. He gets his hands in defensively more frequently and with better effect than his brother though this is the GLeague.

He is definitely a better option than Fornier or slotting Hart in at power forward though he would make mistakes that would drive Thibs crazy. He is eligible to play in the rest of our games.

I gesture knowingly at the Orange and Blue courtesy phone.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 29, 2024, 08:06:34 AM
Knicks phantasy phans still bleating about Bruce Brown, Dejounte Murray, Jordan Clarkson, DeMar DeRozan.

Me?  I believe we should not make a deal for the sake of assuaging nosebleeds.

One player who is supposedly, inexplicably being dangled league wide is worth inquiring about.

Harrison Barnes. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 29, 2024, 05:10:30 PM
More hopeful messages about Julius
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 29, 2024, 09:28:11 PM
When it rains it fucking pours.

OG out with inflamed elbow. Hart and Precious start.

We still blow them out. Good thing we banked this win. Rough stretch begins now and carries on right through the break
Title: Fac, dont worry
Post by: carlos123 on January 29, 2024, 09:54:40 PM
We are going to beat up the Jazz real good tomorrow. They got crushed by the hapless Nyets while we were taking care of the Hornets.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 30, 2024, 01:51:02 AM
They are going to be pissed and they are going to take it out on us. I am extra worried about this one.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 30, 2024, 01:58:18 PM
Taj is back.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on January 30, 2024, 02:51:10 PM
You know, right now I'm not worrying about trades, because I've never had more faith in Knicks management.

Brunson, Hart, Hartenstein, DiVincenzo, OG......

I mean, fuck.

They know what they're doing. I didn't want to see IQ go, but I see why it's the smart play (after contract issues, etc.).

If there's a way to improve the team, the chances of them finding it are as high as it's been for years.

It's weird even feeling this way!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on January 30, 2024, 09:18:14 PM
Quote from: elephant on January 30, 2024, 02:51:10 PM
You know, right now I'm not worrying about trades, because I've never had more faith in Knicks management.

Brunson, Hart, Hartenstein, DiVincenzo, OG......

I mean, fuck.

They know what they're doing. I didn't want to see IQ go, but I see why it's the smart play (after contract issues, etc.).

If there's a way to improve the team, the chances of them finding it are as high as it's been for years.

It's weird even feeling this way!

Word

Trades?

And muck.up our chemistry?

PS: Donte is a Jack Russell TERRIER.

Could almost make DAWG forget Elfrid Payton
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 30, 2024, 09:51:03 PM
The streak is alive. Novacore feasts again. Four wins to hit my number.

Let
Title: Fac?
Post by: carlos123 on January 31, 2024, 01:05:16 AM
Let WHAT?
Please dont do this to us. Check your f-in posts after you hit Post, like I just did after mine got cut off when I tried Post with quotation marks.

Thank you.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on January 31, 2024, 01:17:05 AM
Lets go Warriors!

Which they did, beating Philly.

We sit alone at third in the East.

The Precious Achiuwa trade is really paying dividends.

I hope Jay Wright got a suitable Christmas gift from Thibs
Title: Next Up
Post by: chipstern on January 31, 2024, 02:52:31 PM
Pacers
Lakers
Grizzlies
Mavericks
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 01, 2024, 03:49:46 PM
The pacers have the tools to run us out of our own gym.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 01, 2024, 08:55:28 PM
Glad Julius got the All Star nod.

They should just expand the rosters to 15 BTW. Wouldn't be a dilution. Just a lot of talent out there. Guys like Fox, etc. should be recognized. Not important if they play much or at all. Just show some generosity in passing along the honor.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 01, 2024, 10:07:21 PM
2 all stars, coach of the month and a win against Indy. A good Knicks night
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 01, 2024, 10:21:16 PM
I think we won the Precious Achuiwa trade.
Title: 💙😇💙
Post by: chipstern on February 01, 2024, 10:24:20 PM
Jalen
WINNER

PS: By all means let's trade multiple #1 picks for Murray so we can nail McBride to the pine.  COUGH.  IQ-WHO
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 01, 2024, 11:16:21 PM
IQ will be fine. RJ will teach him how to dress for the winter.

It is time to cut Fournier and sign Tony Snell.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 01, 2024, 11:52:32 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 01, 2024, 11:16:21 PM
IQ will be fine. RJ will teach him how to dress for the winter.

It is time to cut Fournier and sign Tony Snell.

Fournier seemed happier tonight too, as if the end of his purgatory was soon arriving.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 02, 2024, 12:49:29 AM
Kind of a bonkers comeback. Easy to get caught up in. Also, I have no complaints about Evan in terms of professionalism or character.

Will not miss him on the team when he goes.
Title: Evan At Peace?
Post by: chipstern on February 02, 2024, 02:52:00 PM
Happy Fournier?

Does he know something?

Was a good soldier, but hard to argue with Thibs on this one.

I am pulling for Leon to resist all of the Trader Vics.

If somehow, Fournier and a couple of twos could bring Burks home,  maybe, but otherwise, I do not see Leon fucking with Thibs/Brunson's chemistry.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 02, 2024, 07:25:41 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 01, 2024, 10:07:21 PM
2 all stars, coach of the month and a win against Indy. A good Knicks night

Best win of the season considering who we had in uniform, and how the Pacers were trying to take advantage of that with Halitosis taunting in the 1st q, OBI dunk hunting, and the refs nearsightedness.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 02, 2024, 07:28:05 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 01, 2024, 10:21:16 PM
I think we won the Precious Achuiwa trade.

Can't believe they threw in OG too.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 02, 2024, 09:41:20 PM
That was the surcharge for reimporting maple to Canada.
Title: Minutes
Post by: carlos123 on February 04, 2024, 01:28:46 AM
No wonder our guys were exhausted by the 4th quarter, after 3 games of playing with basically 7 men. I would say today we played six and 1/2. Four starters over 40 minutes and a total of 37 minutes for the whole bench. Thibs is grinding our guys to smithereens.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 04, 2024, 01:24:36 PM
We were missing four of our top eight guys. That is going to up the workload while decreasing our fire power.

Hopefully we have OG and Grimes back after the break. Until that happens reasonably healthy teams with playoff aspirations are going to be very tough for us to beat.

The Grizzlies on Tuesday is our best chance to  get another win before the break.
Title: Yes, Fac,
Post by: carlos123 on February 04, 2024, 05:08:00 PM
That is fine and dandy, but we still had 8 bench players with 0 minutes and one more with 3. I mean, how about using some Gibson, Toppin, Fournier, etc., instead of pushing four of our main guys to over 40 minutes game after game after game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 04, 2024, 08:46:42 PM
I would not object to a little Gibson or Toppin mixed in.
Title: Thanks, Fac
Post by: carlos123 on February 05, 2024, 01:24:17 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 04, 2024, 08:46:42 PM
I would not object to a little Gibson or Toppin mixed in.

And how about some Fournier in the 4th yesterday? All our main guys were too tired to shoot. Maybe he could have drained a three or two, which we needed badly.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 05, 2024, 11:32:46 AM
Evan gives up six for every three he gets. We talk about how Thibs always wants the same thing. Fournier has had several years to get with the program and earn some minutes.
 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 05, 2024, 01:32:01 PM
Please don't blame this on Fournier. Thibs is an incredibly limited coach in certain aspects. This mf'er stuck with Elfrid forever rather than change his rotation. Elfrid who didn't belong in the big leagues and will never ever sniff the big leagues again. As I informed you was inevitable. In general, when you're in you stay in, out you stay out

Yes we needed Fournier in the 4th. And it's not the first time.

Spo has gone further than Thibs has ever managed his career by effectively utilizing one-way players like Love, Herro, Robinson for offense in spot minutes or starting minutes w/o it causing havoc on D. Anyway, we managed to survive starting RJ for thousands and thousands of minutes and he's almost as bad as Fournier at it, just waved his arms more.

Yes we needed Fournier. Thibs doesn't know how to use him. Anyway, he's probably encouraged not to play him by management since he is destined out shortly.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 05, 2024, 05:33:49 PM
There is a lot to be said for arm waving.
Title: Hahaha 🤣
Post by: carlos123 on February 05, 2024, 06:00:58 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 05, 2024, 05:33:49 PM
There is a lot to be said for arm waving.

Hey, that was a good one 🥹😂🤣
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 06, 2024, 11:15:44 AM
If we end up needing Fournier tonight, there's definitely a problem:

Brandon Clarke Brandon Clarke  out
Ja Morant  out
Desmond Bane  out
Jaren Jackson Jr.  doubtful
Marcus Smart  out
Derrick Rose  questionable
John Konchar  questionable
Jake LaRavia  out
Santi Aldama  questionable
Victor Oladipo  out
Ziaire Williams  out
Xavier Tillman  doubtful
Vince Williams Jr.  questionable
Title: So
Post by: carlos123 on February 06, 2024, 02:33:08 PM
lets hope the game is not suspended for lack of personnel, lol 🐶
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 06, 2024, 10:28:19 PM
Attrition is a bitch, wins are nice though.

We are now 4.5 games up on the Pacers and 6 up on the Magic and Heat with 4 games left till the break.

I advocate for running Evan and our three two-way guys 48 minutes or 6 fouls, whichever comes first, over these next four games. Sprinkle in the ambulatory regulars judiciously around them and let the chips fall where they may in terms of wins and losses.

By my reconning there are 27 regular season games left after the break in which Thibs will want to ride his regulars hard and put them away wet. They need to hit that chute in the best condition possible if they are going to be any use to each other in a playoff run.

WWGPD
Title: Fac and the Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on February 07, 2024, 01:09:50 AM
You are making an awful lot of sense, reminding me of why I used to advocate for you as a replacement of our current coach.

Unfortunately, Thibs is the actual coach and he is gonna do what he does, 48 minutes or 6 fouls for our remaining regulars.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 07, 2024, 08:15:05 PM
If there's no trade made I won't mind.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 08, 2024, 01:39:33 AM
Bone spur. At least OG will not have to go fight in Vietnam.
Title: damn
Post by: lesterluv on February 08, 2024, 11:50:14 AM
we just traded old-ass Evan Fournier for an even older-ass Evan Fournier!!
Title: damn
Post by: lesterluv on February 08, 2024, 11:51:49 AM
we just got rid of the last of the young guys nobody wanted to give up for DONOVAN
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 08, 2024, 11:54:09 AM
without getting DONOVAN, lol
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 08, 2024, 11:58:23 AM
(Donovan, meanwhile, without Garland or Mobley and half the time without JA, basically 100% all by his FN self has led the Cavs past us)



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 08, 2024, 12:05:07 PM
I am gonna miss Evil Donte!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 08, 2024, 12:17:47 PM
Quote from: Kam on February 07, 2024, 08:15:05 PM
If there's no trade made I won't mind.

Two weeks before, would have agreed.

But with all the injuries? Once we saw what the Lakers did, simply doubling up Brunson, it seemed obvious the Knicks needed more help, at least for the next 5 weeks.

Always, always an advocate for Grimes and I still don't know what his ceiling is. But Donte is doing everything I dreamt that Grimes could do, so begrudgingly I understand why it makes sense he would be involved in a trade.

Whether as Lester suggests, we didn't get much in return is another question. My memories of Bogdanovic have always been good and Alec Burks, shit, why the fuck not?

And Mr. Fournier, once again, will get the chance to play the game of basketball.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 08, 2024, 12:18:48 PM
Bogie and Burks essentially for Grimes without using a first rounder. Leon is a professional. When he is suddenly behind you with a phone at your ear you just cannot say no.

Size, experience, positional flexibility and, oh yeah, shooting and scoring punch.

I think the front office wants to make a run this year.

Title: Grimes
Post by: elephant on February 08, 2024, 12:21:48 PM
Yeah, and it will be very, very interesting to see how Grimes showcases his talents in this new context.

He gave a lot to the Knicks, but there's no question this can work out for him.
Title: Re: damn
Post by: elephant on February 08, 2024, 12:26:14 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on February 08, 2024, 11:50:14 AM
we just traded old-ass Evan Fournier for an even older-ass Evan Fournier!!

This take seems fucked up. You talking like Bogdanovic doesn't have enough game to make an impact.

He does.

(but I share your love for Donovan)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 08, 2024, 12:51:55 PM
With two late firsts I think we can replace Grimes this summer with a guy or guys who will stay cost controlled for longer.

Archi was in the deal. That means we need to find someone else to harass refs into making 3 second calls. Also we are below our quota of Nova kids which is a little troubling. Flynn went as well.

At full strength we might be

Hartenstein Robinson Sims
Randle Achuiwa
OG Bojan
Donte Hart Burks
Brunson McBride

We are going to have to add some bodies. I think we still have a trade exception from the precious deal to get one guy above minimum.

More shoes to fall.

And Dallas is going to smack the shit out of our skeleton crew tonight
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 08, 2024, 12:53:57 PM
lol it probably is fucked up but...I think both have game and that game is pretty damn similar.

They're shooters. Snipers. Bojan a wee bit more impactful.  Maybe Evan can playmake a little bit better.Neither too good at D. Evan's gonna get more passing lane swipes. Bojan a bit more of a banger.

I do think Bojan can help us. But then I thought Evan could help us.


*** won't stop can't stop department: The guy who I still want is singlehandedly carrying a team out in the Midwest, but apparently that's part of Leon's 4-D chess game, too, and Bojan's contract will be key. All this joy we've had over the past few weeks, the Brunson, the O.G., the Devo, the DM is doing it even BETTER, ALL BY HIS SELF

** Burks I welcome back. The 2nd unit needs another point-generator. Just hope Thibs doesn't try that Alec as PG thing again (he will)[/size]


 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 08, 2024, 02:04:54 PM
You can run Deuce and Alec together, giving you point of attack defense and wash or better on a second string wing on the defensive end with layered playmaking and shot making on the other end.

Would a bought out Lowry head back to Miami or come to NY to join the Nova hive?
Title: Leon Rose
Post by: chipstern on February 08, 2024, 04:37:43 PM
Nicely played.

Brunson, Hartenstein, DiVincenzo.

Free agents.

Converted Fournier, Grimes, IQ, RJ into Adunoby, Achuwa, Burks, Bogdonavich.

Have four #1 picks in 2024 and 2025.

Have Rokas Jokubaitis ripening on the vine in Spain.

We are DEEP and have a strong coach and a winning culture capable of making a real.run at the Eastern Finals.

And are primed for free agents, such as, cough, a still having not signed his extension DM.

Be at peace Lester.  All things come to those who wait, and keep all of their #1 picks, Trader Vic.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 08, 2024, 04:58:48 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 08, 2024, 12:51:55 PM
With two late firsts I think we can replace Grimes this summer with a guy or guys who will stay cost controlled for longer.

Archi was in the deal. That means we need to find someone else to harass refs into making 3 second calls. Also we are below our quota of Nova kids which is a little troubling. Flynn went as well.

At full strength we might be

Hartenstein Robinson Sims
Randle Achuiwa
OG Bojan
Donte Hart Burks
Brunson McBride

We are going to have to add some bodies. I think we still have a trade exception from the precious deal to get one guy above minimum.

More shoes to fall.

And Dallas is going to smack the shit out of our skeleton crew tonight

You forgot Taj Gibson, dude.

PS: Dallas got Daniel Gafford AND P.J. Washington.

PPS: You sure it's going to be a beat down tonight?  We shall see.
Title: What Next?
Post by: chipstern on February 08, 2024, 05:00:11 PM
Two roster spots open for the waiver wire. 

Or G Leaguers
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 08, 2024, 07:25:16 PM
I did overlook Taj.

He may get big minutes tonight
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 08, 2024, 07:29:38 PM
OG gets elbow surgery and will miss a month.

Sims is still sick so we have eight guys available, two more than Thibs will play.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 08, 2024, 10:01:33 PM
That was a great fucking game.

Playing hard all the way. Devo + Hart are something else.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 08, 2024, 10:26:18 PM
Hartenstein strained his achilles tendon. The hits keep coming. ASB cannot get here fast enough.

Gonna take a peek at the waiver wire.

Cavs win and Bucks lose. We stay tied for third.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 08, 2024, 10:38:10 PM
Killian Hayes and Gallo are my targets for the filler spots.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 08, 2024, 10:56:57 PM
We did some good work tonight making it harder for Dallas to fall deep into the lottery in their inevitable late season collapse.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 08, 2024, 11:28:19 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 08, 2024, 10:38:10 PM
Killian Hayes and Gallo are my targets for the filler spots.

Robin Lopez
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 09, 2024, 12:28:27 AM
Quote from: chipstern on February 08, 2024, 11:28:19 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 08, 2024, 10:38:10 PM
Killian Hayes and Gallo are my targets for the filler spots.

Robin Lopez

Why?
Title: Re: Ish and Gallo
Post by: facilitatorn on February 09, 2024, 08:46:03 PM
Ish Smith and Danilo Galinari.

A guy as well travelled as Ish should not retire without having been a Knick for at least a minute.

Gallo is the fucking Rooster.

They have both been playing and on occasion putting in work this season.

There would be no trust issues with Thibs. There are hardly any players in the league who more epitomize vets who know how to play.

They provide skills at positions that either do not exist or are in short supply on our roster.

They can each teach a lot to everyone here just by being around.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 10, 2024, 12:40:13 AM
Why?

Oh, I don't know.

Mitchell out
Hartenstein day to day
Sims down with the flu
Precious playing 40 a night
Taj best in spot minutes

Robin was a good Knick.  Still has some gas in the tank.  Physical presence.  Can finish around the basket
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 10, 2024, 01:10:42 AM
The Rooster has more in the tank than Fropez.

Thibs does like his drop centers though, so maybe
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 10, 2024, 11:15:05 AM
Gallinari coming back home WOULD be a nice storyline
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 10, 2024, 10:11:16 PM
We did get thirty plus from the new guys. 2 more games till the break
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 12, 2024, 11:37:13 AM
Quote from: chipstern on February 10, 2024, 11:15:05 AM
Gallinari coming back home WOULD be a nice storyline

However, doubt he wants Fournier's seat on the bench.

Even with IH and MR coming back, another pro center like Lopez would be comforting as Taj is best in.spot minutes
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 12, 2024, 11:17:02 PM
What a way to lose a game. We did not need to go into overtime tonight. Better to leave Houston without banging any more fingers or toes or whatnot. Down Donte is enough.

A heavy dose of Sims and Precious makes for a competitive frontcourt. Those Thompson twins are fiesty buggers.

Deuce needs to figure out how to assert himself with the new guys. We definitely have some shit to figure out.

I do not want to see Hartenstein play next game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 13, 2024, 12:14:30 AM
So against the Magic,

Sims Taj
Precious Toppin
Hart Bojan
Burks Brown
Brunson McBride
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 13, 2024, 01:59:06 AM
From Fred Katz,

Jalen Brunson fielded three questions about the foul to end the game. Each time, he had the same four-word response

Great call. Next question.

Our boy does not feed the nonsense. Good call
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on February 13, 2024, 06:39:26 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 08, 2024, 02:04:54 PM
You can run Deuce and Alec together

Wish Thibs realized that.  Deuce has become the forgotten man.

I ran into old forum regular PrezIke in the KFS YouTube chat last night.  He said nice things about the NYTimes forum days.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on February 13, 2024, 06:44:44 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 13, 2024, 12:14:30 AM
So against the Magic,

Sims Taj
Precious Toppin
Hart Bojan
Burks Brown
Brunson McBride

Jungle drums suggest Gallinari and Phoenix might be exchanging vows
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 13, 2024, 11:39:02 PM
I like Ike. Always have.

I
Title: Fac and his truncated posts
Post by: carlos123 on February 14, 2024, 01:16:56 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 13, 2024, 11:39:02 PM
I like Ike. Always have.

I

Come on, Fac.

Review your posts after hitting Post.

And that is an order.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 14, 2024, 01:22:56 AM
I am concerned the Magic are about to kick our asses.
Title: 40+
Post by: carlos123 on February 14, 2024, 10:22:30 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 14, 2024, 01:22:56 AM
I am concerned the Magic are about to kick our asses.

Of course we are.

Thibs likes to play guys 40+ minutes a game.

Then they get hurt, so he plays the few still standing 46.

And they get hurt, too.

So he says they need to play tougher for 48 minutes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 14, 2024, 12:48:59 PM
If you are taking the kids to Disney, you should let them play.

Sims Taj
Precious Toppin
Bojan Brown Jr.
Hart Burks
Brunson McBride

They will be out sized and out quicked all night, but I would still give that group a punchers chance.
Title: 7 1/2
Post by: carlos123 on February 14, 2024, 02:42:36 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 14, 2024, 12:48:59 PM
If you are taking the kids to Disney, you should let them play.

Sims Taj
Precious Toppin
Bojan Brown Jr.
Hart Burks
Brunson McBride

They will be out sized and out quicked all night, but I would still give that group a punchers chance.

That is 10 kids.

With luck, 7 1/2 will play.

Hopefully, no more injuries.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 14, 2024, 09:51:00 PM
Jalen, Precious, and Jakob found a way to get something going. Not much else though against a bigger tougher bunch on the other side.

Taj is cooked. It is time to move on and find some other guys.

Break is here. It looks like we will have 4 to ourselves coming out of it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 14, 2024, 10:32:37 PM
I expect we will still be short handed for the first four games after the break, unitl we see the Warriors on leap day.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 15, 2024, 12:08:51 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 14, 2024, 01:22:56 AM
I am concerned the Magic are about to kick our asses.
You, sir, were correct.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 15, 2024, 12:12:08 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 14, 2024, 09:51:00 PM
Jalen, Precious, and Jakob found a way to get something going. Not much else though against a bigger tougher bunch on the other side.

Taj is cooked. It is time to move on and find some other guys.

Break is here. It looks like we will have 4 to ourselves coming out of it.

Last year (I think it was last year), I wrote that I never saw Taj play a bad game. Never!

This season, no one can say that. I realize that he may have been playing hurt, not just now, but when he first put back on a Knick uniform.

But it does indeed feel like he's reached the end of the line as a player, and it's starting to get painful to see him out there.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 15, 2024, 07:30:39 PM
Gallo to Milwaukee.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 16, 2024, 12:35:45 PM
At 3-7, is Doc still coaching the East in the ASG?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 19, 2024, 11:35:57 AM
So. If healthy, this is the best Knick team in.....a long time.

And carries the tradition of scrappiness and heart that we look love.

But will they get sufficiently healthy? With so many injuries, what's the chance everyone comes back strong?

Probably not so high.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 19, 2024, 12:54:10 PM
Yeah. My biggest concern now is OG and Julius rushing back. I would rather see us in the play in at full strength than with a high seed missing key guys. I will just have to keep reminding my self of this on a game to game basis going forward.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 23, 2024, 12:15:19 AM
Nice way to come out of the break. If we can keep the currently available guys healthy I think we have the firepower to hold serve till Jules and OG return. The Celtics will be a tougher test on Saturday but this was definitely fun.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 23, 2024, 12:10:18 PM
The Oklahoma City Thunder are waiving Aleksej Pokusevski. Make a move, Leon.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: LarryB! on February 23, 2024, 03:23:23 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-mUaJFTO30

Melo on state of the Knicks
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 24, 2024, 12:37:31 AM
That was fun. It was interesting to hear Melo go on about the importance of a group playing together.

To keep the band together we are going to have to spend money. Fortunately I believe we have bird rights to Hartenstein and OG. Precious has a qualifying offer so could be an RFA. I think we need to resolve that first then give as much as needed for OG and IH. We can agree to it all in the first instance, but in terms of league business the paperwork for Bird rights guys lets you exceed caps to do the deals. I expect it will cost north of 60 million to keep all three. It will be well worth it. That would give us eleven vet returners

Hartenstein Mitch Sims
Randle Precious
OG Bogdan
Donte Hart
Brunson McBride

Even capped out, with our draft picks we can play young guy roulette at the back of the lineup. That is the near future outcome I would recommend.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 25, 2024, 01:11:42 PM
If we are at full strength, the Celtics do not scare me in a series.

It is nice to see Luke Kornet play well.

Detroit is feeling like a must win at the moment.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 25, 2024, 02:31:26 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 25, 2024, 01:11:42 PM
If we are at full strength, the Celtics do not scare me in a series.

Wait, what?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 25, 2024, 03:16:48 PM
Add Jules and OG to what we had going on and I think we make up the scoring difference between the starting units. Two other benefits are that those two players put wear and tear on opponents through their physicality which can come to bear as a game or series progresses and it would move Precious, Hart and Mitch to our bench which, along with Bogdan and McBride, would give us a pronounced advantage in the second unit.

I do not think we would be favored or be set up for an east series, but I do not think we would be overmatched and I do not think the Celtics have enough to be able to throw us off our game given a fully available roster
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on February 25, 2024, 03:39:53 PM
On offense Celtics had their way with us all game. The 3's were one thing, but lots and lots of shots right next to the bucket. It was disturbing for a Thib's team, injuries or no.

That said, I hear you. And pretty much agree that, full strength, we can take on anyone.

The only thing irritating me since the trade is Burks playing back up point instead of Deuce.

The young dude brings so much...why fuck with his confidence? Even if Burks was shooting better, which he isn't, the chemistry is obviously not there with his teammates.

I can't help thinking how he and Bogdan just came from an incredibly bad team where losing was the daily mindset. That really gonna change in a minute?
Title: Thibs
Post by: carlos123 on February 25, 2024, 04:55:45 PM
Quote from: elephant on February 25, 2024, 03:39:53 PM

That said, I hear you. And pretty much agree that, full strength, we can take on anyone.

The only thing irritating me since the trade is Burks playing back up point instead of Deuce.


Just Thibs being Thibs.

Besides, at full strength, with his inflexible 9 man rotation, either Deuce or Sims or both would be out of our lineup.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 26, 2024, 12:36:22 PM
I expect Burks and Sims would be out of a top nine rotation, but with this group top ten makes more sense.

Hartenstein Mitch
Randle Precious
OG Bogdan
Donte Hart
Brunson McBride

Burks and Sims situational.

A couple days left to tinker with playoff rosters.
Title: I bet you $1
Post by: carlos123 on February 26, 2024, 12:44:22 PM
Fac, I bet you $1 that Thibs will stick with Burks over Deuce, and also that another of your, and mine, 10 will be out of the rotation if we are at full strength.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 26, 2024, 02:04:58 PM
AB may have lost a step over the past couple of years. He looked best for us sandwiched between Rose and Quickley. He also may need a game or five to reorient himself to the spaces and rythym available in this group.

Neither he or Bogdan are all that playable unless they are cooking. I do not mind having one guy like that in the regular set. Two is already too much of a problem.
Title: Fac,
Post by: carlos123 on February 26, 2024, 04:17:21 PM
I agree with you on this and also on  your 10 man rotation. My point is that I dont think Thibs does. So, I still bet you $1 that he does not.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 26, 2024, 04:56:26 PM
The Burks - McBride dynamic is one I will endeavor to closely watch.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on February 26, 2024, 10:26:47 PM
At least Thibs did not injure anyone by overplaying.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 26, 2024, 10:56:36 PM
14 mins for Burks 10 for Deuce. Carlos, you may be on to something reading the Thibs tea leaves.

Bogdan was better than Burks. One could make the case that Grimes was better than either one. I still think BB will be a good piece to have down the stretch. It is good to see Hartenstein moving better.

I hope we can steal a game or two in this next stretch. Nothing is easy anymore.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 27, 2024, 04:08:20 PM
No Jalen. No Hartenstein. This is not going to go well against the Pels.
Title: Overusing
Post by: carlos123 on February 27, 2024, 04:24:26 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 27, 2024, 04:08:20 PM
No Jalen. No Hartenstein. This is not going to go well against the Pels.

Overusing people has consequences, does it not?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 27, 2024, 07:47:31 PM
My friends think its their appointed duty
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 27, 2024, 10:17:00 PM
Heroic first half and we managed to stay in contact through most of the second half. The Pels clearly had more talent on the floor.

Mama always told me there would be days like these.
Title: Mama
Post by: carlos123 on February 28, 2024, 12:55:28 AM
Fac, you have a very wise Mama, and very unwise friends 😉
Title: Re: Mama
Post by: facilitatorn on February 28, 2024, 11:04:09 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on February 28, 2024, 12:55:28 AM
Fac, you have a very wise Mama, and very unwise friends 😉

My ma would definitely agree with you. Story of my life, I guess.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 28, 2024, 12:32:24 PM
yeah, yeah, yeah..good game, heroic undermanned la la la....BUT


BOJAN doesn't crack 30 minutes when we're trotting out that starting lineup? We're even at the half and Thibs waits until we're down 13 to stick him in? Against a team that will crack like an egg if you can just stay with them til the 4th...

He played LESS THAN 30 MINUTES like 3 times with Detroit. You use that MF'er to death in this situation.

The Human Manatee has many merits as a coach, but his flaws are just as obvious as they were in season one.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 28, 2024, 12:49:49 PM
BB played 29 and change. Who did you want to see less of so he could hit say 36 minutes?

Things will look better once OG comes on line, assuming the Brunson neck thing is not too serious.

Thibs needs 11 guys with 7 highly versatile to make it through the season. 8 to play on a given night, 3 to plug in when breakage occurs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 28, 2024, 05:30:02 PM
Take your pick, any of the five starters....you can't score you play the guy who can score.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on February 28, 2024, 06:17:29 PM
Take Deuce and Sims out of it, as Bogey on a point or pivot is waving a white flag defensively. Among Precious, Hart and Divo I am not sure who you want save or sacrifice if not Bogey himself who has played heavily, is 35 and we got hoping he would be useful in at least one deepish playoff run. We might want to keep him underworked while still worked enough to get comfortable. I am happy he was productive in his minutes second night of a back to back.

However you stack it, running the guys you are most inclined to lean on 40 minutes a night might not be the best idea no matter who else is available.
Title: So, Fac,
Post by: carlos123 on February 29, 2024, 01:13:09 AM
you are agreeing with me that Thibs is wrong in running the guys he wants to lean on 40 or more minutes a night, which he was doing well before we got all those injured guys, most likely because he played them around 40 minutes a game until they got hurt.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on February 29, 2024, 10:13:28 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on February 28, 2024, 06:17:29 PM
Take Deuce and Sims out of it, as Bogey on a point or pivot is waving a white flag defensively. Among Precious, Hart and Divo I am not sure who you want save or sacrifice if not Bogey himself who has played heavily, is 35 and we got hoping he would be useful in at least one deepish playoff run. We might want to keep him underworked while still worked enough to get comfortable. I am happy he was productive in his minutes second night of a back to back.

However you stack it, running the guys you are most inclined to lean on 40 minutes a night might not be the best idea no matter who else is available.

I'm not saying every night. I'm not saying most nights.

I'm saying one night when you don't have Jalen, IH, (and all the other guys)

And I'm not excluding point or pivot. McBride couldn't break down the D or even barely get off his brand new pull up cause they had ZERO fear of a pass to Achiuwa, Sims, Hart on the fringes. Sims? Absolute NADA on offense. So we're left having Deuce, Hart, Dante try to drive against 5, well, we got exactly what you might expect out of it.

Having ONE non defensive ace out on the floor is NOT waving a white flag.
Trotting out a laughable offensive lineup for the second half is.

No biggie but a bad omen for down the line. As I frequently mention, Spo routinely gives big minutes to guys with no D to balance the pot and make sure he has a chance to win...his team scheme can cover for the failings.

Thibs, on the other hand, would have given Elfrid 30 last night if he still had him cause familiar.

That's why, as a betting man, not a fan, I'd still have to lay it all on Miami if we meet again no matter who we have back.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 02, 2024, 11:24:56 PM
Word is we are signing Shake Milton. Nice move Leon.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 03, 2024, 03:07:22 PM
I don't see this as a meaningful acquisition, for either now or a month from now.

What am I missing?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 03, 2024, 05:26:44 PM
We now have three guards behind Brunson and Donte where before we had two. Milton is a little less sloppy and gung-ho than Burks, but rarely as prolific.

I doubt he will do as much for us as Gallo is doing for the Bucks, but at this stage every little bit helps.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 04, 2024, 02:08:35 AM
Glad we are adding backcourt depth. Brunson needs at least a night off.

Nice game by the ambulatory few. A big game for the standings.

Hart earning his check recently.

I loves me some Deuce.

It does not get any easier from here.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 06, 2024, 12:34:54 PM
I've gone a long time without knocking Thibs on this forum, but what the fuck was he thinking last night?

Precious was playing great last night, major reason why we caught up, and Thibs keeps him on the bench the entire 4th?

That shit makes no sense.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 06, 2024, 03:34:51 PM
100 percent agree. This one is all on Thibs.

Quote
On not playing Precious Achiuwa during the fourth quarter against Atlanta...

Just the way the game went. They were collapsing so we needed shooting on the floor.


Let Precious shoot. He can hit them. The floor spreaders cannot crash or play D.

The Magic make the Hawks look like a JV team. We are in serious trouble next game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 06, 2024, 06:34:29 PM
missus dawg was screaming for Precious
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 07, 2024, 03:40:00 PM
Hold out Brunson against the Magic. It only takes our odds of victory down from terrible to near impossible while giving Jalen some more needed rest before he gets back in the rough and tumble of leading this team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 08, 2024, 01:57:33 PM
Just sit this one out, Jalen. You can do it. It will be alright
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 08, 2024, 10:56:20 PM
I guess Jalen wanted to play. That felt like a statement game. We can really help ourselves over this next stretch if we can maintain the intensity.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 09, 2024, 02:42:09 PM
Where are you fuckers?

No OG, no Mitch and the best defensive showing of not only the year but since 2012 against a team that handled us in the prior three games this season to hop over them back into fourth.

Precious can be out X factor this post season.

Hart and Deuce are activated.

Nova swag is real here with this group.

Let us get healthy in time for a push.

Fun times ahead however this goes.
Title: Where
Post by: carlos123 on March 09, 2024, 05:03:40 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 09, 2024, 02:42:09 PM
Where are you fuckers?

We are all lazy and content to read what you write.

Precious and Hart are both playing 40+ minutes a night. Hope they can remain available.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 10, 2024, 12:48:39 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 09, 2024, 02:42:09 PM
Fun times ahead however this goes.

Absolutely. Last game I thought.....this is just a fucking lovable team.

They scrap, they scrap, they scrap.

Couldn't ask for anything more.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on March 10, 2024, 09:11:00 PM
Stinker of a game!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 10, 2024, 10:47:26 PM
espn surely wishes that they had not scheduled that one
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 10, 2024, 10:53:16 PM
Wow. That sucked. At least everyone else in the pack lost as well. We see Philly again on Tuesday. We need to get the next one in the worst way.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 12, 2024, 05:22:33 PM
Sixers get Maxey back. We could be in big trouble.
Title: So what?
Post by: carlos123 on March 12, 2024, 07:04:05 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 12, 2024, 05:22:33 PM
Sixers get Maxey back. We could be in big trouble.

And we get Anunoby. No worries 😉
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 12, 2024, 09:51:42 PM
Turns out that was a fair point. Our Guy definitely made more of a difference out there.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 13, 2024, 01:35:07 AM
Hart said he played like dog shit Sunday.

Next game....he's fucking magnificent.

Really turning out to be a special player.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 14, 2024, 02:07:53 PM
Ayton is on a tear and the Blazers are ticking. We are in serious trouble tonight.
Title: PP#2
Post by: carlos123 on March 14, 2024, 04:08:30 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 14, 2024, 02:07:53 PM
Ayton is on a tear and the Blazers are ticking. We are in serious trouble tonight.

They played last night and we did not.

Remember, you are supposed to be a Positive Pussy, PP#2.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 15, 2024, 04:25:04 AM
I
Title: ?????
Post by: carlos123 on March 15, 2024, 10:14:51 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 15, 2024, 04:25:04 AM
I

You WHAT?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 15, 2024, 01:36:57 PM
I used an apostrophe in my last post. Also, I am trying to take each opponent in turn as seriously as I hope the team does. Part of the Thibs ethos trickling down into the fandom.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 15, 2024, 03:03:04 PM
Well, you were right on one thing. Ayton playing at an awfully high level.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 15, 2024, 03:25:11 PM
Quote from: elephant on March 15, 2024, 03:03:04 PM
Well, you were right on one thing. Ayton playing at an awfully high level.

Yeah. If he can sustain the energy and focus Portland can become a problem going forward.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 16, 2024, 01:47:11 PM
Mike Brown is getting his team ready to beat our asses and run us out of the gym.
Title: NN
Post by: carlos123 on March 16, 2024, 01:55:59 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 16, 2024, 01:47:11 PM
Mike Brown is getting his team ready to beat our asses and run us out of the gym.

Fac, you are probably right about tonight. But it is also true that you are turning from Positive Pussy into Negative Nancy. So, which is it?
Title: Hey Fac,
Post by: carlos123 on March 17, 2024, 01:10:12 AM
After this win, I think you should drop your NN musings and recover your sunny Positive Pussy Personality, filled with PP Power, and that makes it a Triple P, no matter how you look at it. I miss the old PP#2, so let us get the new PPP.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 17, 2024, 01:25:08 AM
Who's playing better defense than the Knicks right now?

Nobody.

It's incredible to watch.
Title: Re: Hey Fac,
Post by: facilitatorn on March 17, 2024, 05:31:07 PM
Quote from: carlos123 on March 17, 2024, 01:10:12 AM
After this win, I think you should drop your NN musings and recover your sunny Positive Pussy Personality, filled with PP Power, and that makes it a Triple P, no matter how you look at it. I miss the old PP#2, so let us get the new PPP.

I am positive that Golden State will be a tougher matchup and will show us a better effort than either Sacramento or Portland did. I am doubtful we have the fire power to come out on top against the Dubs.
Title: Hey Fac#2
Post by: carlos123 on March 17, 2024, 08:26:21 PM
I agree that beating GS is highly improbable. But I was never a Positive Pussy, and you were PP#2, no less. Please work some PPP magic.
Title: Re: Hey Fac#2
Post by: elephant on March 18, 2024, 11:34:45 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on March 17, 2024, 08:26:21 PM
I agree that beating GS is highly improbable.
Highly improbable?

Anything can happen on a given night. But if Brunson is on the court and OG is playing....we've got the better team.

After years of the Knicks being the (sometimes valiant) underdog, perhaps it's tough to accept the idea that we are genuinely becoming an exceptional team.
Title: Re: Hey Fac#2
Post by: carlos123 on March 18, 2024, 02:08:44 PM
Quote from: elephant on March 18, 2024, 11:34:45 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on March 17, 2024, 08:26:21 PM
I agree that beating GS is highly improbable.
Highly improbable?

Anything can happen on a given night. But if Brunson is on the court and OG is playing....we've got the better team.

After years of the Knicks being the (sometimes valiant) underdog, perhaps it's tough to accept the idea that we are genuinely becoming an exceptional team.

That is some Positive Power!

I hope Fac and I are wrong and you are right.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 18, 2024, 03:53:38 PM
Well, okay, OG is not playing.

But Donte is! He's due and he's gonna want to perform before his old team.
Title: For Facil
Post by: chipstern on March 18, 2024, 04:27:54 PM
The Knicks acquired three 1st Round Picks for Ousmane Dieng on the '22 Draft Night:

Title: Re: For Facil
Post by: chipstern on March 18, 2024, 04:33:40 PM
Quote from: chipstern on March 18, 2024, 04:27:54 PM
The Knicks acquired three 1st Round Picks for Ousmane Dieng on the '22 Draft Night:


A 2024 1st from DET, protected 1-18, 1-13 in '25, 1-11 in '26, and 1-9 in 2027.

A 2024 1st from WAS, protected 1-12, 1-10 in '25, and 1-8 in 2026.
Title: Re: For Facil
Post by: chipstern on March 18, 2024, 04:34:47 PM
Quote from: chipstern on March 18, 2024, 04:33:40 PM
Quote from: chipstern on March 18, 2024, 04:27:54 PM
The Knicks acquired three 1st Round Picks for Ousmane Dieng on the '22 Draft Night:


A 2024 1st from DET, protected 1-18, 1-13 in '25, 1-11 in '26, and 1-9 in 2027.

A 2024 1st from WAS, protected 1-12, 1-10 in '25, and 1-8 in 2026.

And Bucks 1-4 protected in 2025
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 18, 2024, 08:57:23 PM
Green Wiggins and Kuminga bring a lot of force and athleticism to the Warriors frontcourt. They are going to try to strip us blind and get out on the run early and often.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 18, 2024, 09:00:13 PM
Quote from: elephant on March 18, 2024, 03:53:38 PM
Well, okay, OG is not playing.

But Donte is! He's due and he's gonna want to perform before his old team.

We have already split the trip. He should go home and rest.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on March 19, 2024, 12:04:40 AM
Burks should retire already. 8 minuses in last 10 games.
Title: Wow!
Post by: carlos123 on March 19, 2024, 12:56:06 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on March 18, 2024, 02:08:44 PM
Quote from: elephant on March 18, 2024, 11:34:45 AM
Quote from: carlos123 on March 17, 2024, 08:26:21 PM
I agree that beating GS is highly improbable.
Highly improbable?

Anything can happen on a given night. But if Brunson is on the court and OG is playing....we've got the better team.

After years of the Knicks being the (sometimes valiant) underdog, perhaps it's tough to accept the idea that we are genuinely becoming an exceptional team.

That is some Positive Power!

I hope Fac and I are wrong and you are right.

Indeed you were right. Amazing game!

Let us hope Hart does not break after so many games at or near 48 minutes. Can Thibs not coach some of the many guys he does never play?

And I agree with luee about Burks. Time to find one or, better, more replacements among the never used players.
Title: Deuce
Post by: chipstern on March 19, 2024, 01:19:09 AM
Immanuel Who?

PS: Yeah, another terrible coaching night for Thibs. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 19, 2024, 04:13:10 AM
That was some incredible grit. That comes close to the best win of the season so far. Jalen, Deuce and Hart get well deserved credit in this one, but the work Hartenstein and Precious put in was outstanding.

I think the Burks hate is a bit over the top. That said, I wonder if Shake will get a shake at all this season. There has to be time for a short look at least.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on March 19, 2024, 05:35:36 AM
Thibs is one of better coaches recently but his main fault is a small rotation. Overuse causes injuries and diminished showings.
Title: 👍
Post by: carlos123 on March 19, 2024, 10:32:37 AM
Quote from: luee on March 19, 2024, 05:35:36 AM
Thibs is one of better coaches recently but his main fault is a small rotation. Overuse causes injuries and diminished showings.

Exactly!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 19, 2024, 11:42:53 AM
I'm spinning in a different direction.

Mr. Thibs is coach of the year.

The teamwork is incredible. Everything is coming together.
Title: 👌
Post by: carlos123 on March 19, 2024, 04:49:48 PM
Quote from: elephant on March 19, 2024, 11:42:53 AM
I'm spinning in a different direction.

Mr. Thibs is coach of the year.

The teamwork is incredible. Everything is coming together.

Ok, again I hope you are right and Mr. luee and I are wrong.
Title: Eli's Coming
Post by: chipstern on March 20, 2024, 04:10:36 PM

👣👁👣

Mitchell

👁👣👁
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 20, 2024, 04:42:07 PM
If you are talking about Mitch Robinson, he is cleared for contact. I would hope we soldier on without Mitch and OG for a few games so they can get steadier in their recoveries. Hopefully Randle is not too far behind.

In the meantime we should do out best with the healthy guys available and hope for positive results.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 21, 2024, 02:09:32 PM
Against the Nuggets in Denver, NN is just simply realistic.

Length, energy, cohesion, home crowd and thin air. The deck is stacked against us. Manage minutes. Give the seldoms and situationals spin.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on March 21, 2024, 03:43:09 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 21, 2024, 02:09:32 PM
Against the Nuggets in Denver, NN is just simply realistic.

Length, energy, cohesion, home crowd and thin air. The deck is stacked against us. Manage minutes. Give the seldoms and situationals spin.

Not a chance.

Thibs going with his Dawgs, in it to win it. 
Title: Phool Jagoff Draft Faux Pas
Post by: chipstern on March 21, 2024, 09:04:18 PM
Cleanthony Early #34

Nikola Jokic #41
Title: Re: Phool Jagoff Draft Faux Pas
Post by: facilitatorn on March 21, 2024, 10:30:25 PM
Quote from: chipstern on March 21, 2024, 09:04:18 PM
Cleanthony Early #34

Nikola Jokic #41

Especially because he won rings with Wennington and Longley, poster boys in their own right for the  red flags on Joker.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 22, 2024, 01:29:29 PM
Quote from: chipstern on March 21, 2024, 03:43:09 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 21, 2024, 02:09:32 PM
Against the Nuggets in Denver, NN is just simply realistic.

Length, energy, cohesion, home crowd and thin air. The deck is stacked against us. Manage minutes. Give the seldoms and situationals spin.

Not a chance.

Thibs going with his Dawgs, in it to win it.


I think we were both right.

We were so good when we were healthier in January. Hope we get to see something like it again.
Title: Hey, Fac,
Post by: carlos123 on March 23, 2024, 12:54:30 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 22, 2024, 01:29:29 PM

I think we were both right.


I think you, my friend, are a diplomat.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 23, 2024, 03:26:38 PM
Vintage Thibs minutes management and he has led us to another winning season. I am going to float on this win all weekend.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on March 25, 2024, 09:23:53 AM
Leave it to Knicks fans to wet their fucking pants and find things to go bonkers on in the midst of a strong push for playoff seeding.  I don't know how this hysterical WE CAN'T KEEP/AFFORD BOTH Mitchell & Isaiah narrative came from?  JEEZE LOUIZE.  Does anyone seriously believe that James Dolan, who has burned through enough money to roast a wet elephant over the past 20 years [a combined what, 130 million alone on asswipes such as Phil Jackson and the earthly remains of Joakim Noah] is going to tell Leon, "No, we cannot pay the Luxury Tax."  GET FUCKING REAL.  MSG as a corporate entity is awash in cash.  Dolan wants championship banners, which will serve only to make Garden stock even more valuable, and he has never been shy about spending money.  Leon has been very Very VERY Prudent about cap space and salaries and squirrelling away draft capital...we could potentially have two #1 picks a year through 2027.  The Nets are paying the ghost of Ben Simmons $40 million in 2024-25 and gave up mucho draft capital for James Haden [got some back for Durant, but not as choice as the lowly Nyets lottery #1s which will convey to the Rockets].  HELLO.  Julius and Jalen have player options for $32 and $24 million in 2025-2026.  OG has a $19 million player option for 2024-25.  Deuce is locked up for $13 million through 2027, and Mitchell is due $14 & $13 million through 2026.  Donte is due $36 million through 2027.  Josh is due roughly $18, 19.5, 21 through 2027 [team option for $22 million in 2027-28].  Burks is on the final year of a 10.4 million deal, and Bojan's $19 million for 2024-2025 is only guaranteed after a certain date.  OG's agent is Leon's son...he won't come cheap, but what if he picked up his 2024-25 option like Josh did last summer?  HELLO!  Hartenstein has legitimately won the starting job and become a franchise player in NY...why the fuck wouldn't he want to stay?  Mitchell ain't stupid enough to rock THAT Boat.  Last summer, Leon made a handshake deal with Josh to pick up his player option for 2023-24, allowing the Knicks to use their full MCE on Donte.  AGAIN, the idea that Leon & Company have not fully thought out how to retain ALL OF OUR PRIZED ASSETS, players who have created a winning chemistry and spiritual bond, while positioning themselves for opportunities next summer, is just INSANE.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 25, 2024, 01:26:03 PM
Getting off of Bojan gives us room to pay IH and Precious what they are worth while maxing out OG. If we do that and actually use our draft picks to get players from the draft, I will be pleased with this coming offseason.

Hartenstein Robinson
Randle Precious
OG Hart
Donte
Brunson McBride

This would give us a pretty solid core to start with.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 25, 2024, 03:28:24 PM
Detroit is playing better since they reconfigured. Duren is a force to contend with.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on March 25, 2024, 04:01:14 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 25, 2024, 03:28:24 PM
Detroit is playing better since they reconfigured. Duren is a force to contend with.

Yup

Part of the horse trading that encouraged Pistons to take Walker, Noel and Burks' salaries off our hands, creating room for Brunson & IH signings, was to acquire Duren on  behalf of Detroit. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on March 25, 2024, 04:10:02 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on March 25, 2024, 01:26:03 PM
Getting off of Bojan gives us room to pay IH and Precious what they are worth while maxing out OG. If we do that and actually use our draft picks to get players from the draft, I will be pleased with this coming offseason.

Hartenstein Robinson
Randle Precious
OG Hart
Donte
Brunson McBride

This would give us a pretty solid core to start with.

Sims?

I suspect that the Bogdonavich contract and our draft picks will be in play as some sort of package.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 25, 2024, 10:33:23 PM
I forgot we have a player option on Sims. We should pick it up. It is good value. Count him in.

No Duren tonight. We rolled. Donte with 11 made 3s. Hart with another triple double. Nice.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 27, 2024, 02:57:41 PM
Being back on the road going into a trap game in Toronto has me worried. 
Title: Meanwhile
Post by: chipstern on March 27, 2024, 04:45:28 PM
Our BARCELONA Euro stash, #34 pick from the McBride/Sims Draft, ROKAS JOKUBAITIS, will be competing on the Knicks summer league team.
Title: Mitchell
Post by: chipstern on March 27, 2024, 04:48:26 PM
Possible return in Toronto
Title: DEUCE ON THE LOOSE
Post by: chipstern on March 27, 2024, 10:22:51 PM
29 points

9 treys

7 assists
Title: Re: Mitchell
Post by: facilitatorn on March 27, 2024, 10:32:01 PM
Quote from: chipstern on March 27, 2024, 04:48:26 PM
Possible return in Toronto

He is back.

That was a perfect blowout win. Toronto is about as down as a team can be. We came in, played our game and got the desired result.

Precious and Mitch as the backup front court is a lot to contend with.
Title: Milwaukee
Post by: chipstern on March 29, 2024, 01:25:53 AM
Loses to Pelicans

Don't look past San Antonio, New York.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on March 29, 2024, 10:15:37 AM
Did you see Mitch's block last game? Sick. Bring on Wembanyama.

BTW

I am still in a daze how good a team we are.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 29, 2024, 04:33:26 PM
Wemby Sochan and Vassell combined with good play from their guards could give us big problems. I am worried about this game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 29, 2024, 11:40:57 PM
Damn. We almost got away with the slow start.

40 and 20 from Vic erases JB career night.

More Shake less Bogdonovic please.

Hope our big guys are ok. We have a tough stretch coming up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on March 30, 2024, 01:38:26 AM
way too many shots for JB, bad job
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 30, 2024, 02:20:20 AM
There were points in the last three minutes of regulation where it would have been nice to run some offense. It was a Dame style approach which is not my favorite. Even with that it came down to the very end in OT. We had our chances and kept up our fight.

Thunder, Heat and Kings coming up. Reinforcements would be welcome.

I was reminded why I like Keldon Johnson.
Title: jeezuz that was AWFUL nothing f'ing heroic about it
Post by: lesterluv on March 30, 2024, 12:34:02 PM
longer than three..like last six

5:32         Jalen Brunson steps out of bounds turnover
5:03      Jalen Brunson misses driving layup
4:51      Jalen Brunson misses running pullup jump shot
4:08      Jalen Brunson makes 10-foot two point shot
3:33      Jalen Brunson misses 8-foot two point shot
2:51      Jalen Brunson makes 14-foot pullup jump shot
2:17      Jalen Brunson misses 25-foot three point pullup jump shot
1:41      Jalen Brunson misses driving floating jump shot
1:14      Jalen Brunson makes 5-foot two point shot
36.0      Jalen Brunson misses 19-foot step back jumpshot

 
flat-out lost us the game against a bad team that hasn't been able to close the fourth all year.

Jalen, our floor leader gifted them the opportunity by refusing to make them think and play basketball as he went full Melo in pursuit of the scoring record. Most FGAs in the fucking league all year. SO EZ for the Spurs. Just double the HOG.

Tired of hearing bullshit about selfless leader..butt selfish, butt stupid hero ball. With every possession the rest of team grows staler and more ineffective.

Thibs and Jalen try that *ish in the playoffs and we are looking at first-round out for sure. GUARANTEED.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on March 30, 2024, 02:09:53 PM
I am hopeful we will look at some film and adjust.

I do not mind Jalen getting the shots if they are coming after he gets the ball back after some passing and movement. On too many possessions he was the only guy to touch the ball.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on April 01, 2024, 11:20:28 AM
I think we did. Way better performance than the porcine horror show everybody is still drooling over.

(REALLY? THE MOST CHUCKS SINCE KOBE'S FRAUDULENT FAREWELL, LOL, SERIOUSLY....)

OKC is gonna be so scary for so long. Was kinda hoping Deuce would get a wee breather while SGA was out early 4th, crazy huge ask placed on him, (and everybody, you could see Hart/Dante/all just run out of leg and lung during that OKC comeback) of course, that would have meant more minutes for the shell of Burks, Thibs has to handle some difficult situations these days.

Anyway, almost took a ridiculously tough team. Maybe our missing guys come back sometime.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 01, 2024, 01:00:55 PM
 More Shake and Precious. Less Bogdan and no Burks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on April 01, 2024, 01:45:39 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 01, 2024, 01:00:55 PM
More Shake and Precious. Less Bogdan and no Burks.

No argument here. Tho still hoping B & B can function better in their roles once (if) the A team returns...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 01, 2024, 03:04:35 PM
That parenthetical is huge. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on April 03, 2024, 03:37:55 PM
Not quite a breakthrough game, but Bogey looking better last night.

Good thing cause still no sign of our missing forwards returning.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on April 04, 2024, 12:13:39 PM
The news about Julius.

(sigh)

That said. I was speculating two months ago just how far we could go with no Randle and a healthy OG.

I thought....pretty far.

But will we ever get a healthy OG this year? Or at least an OG that can help us win two series?

That will be the question. Otherwise, we'll just have to see how deep our motley crew can go.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 04, 2024, 12:42:04 PM
Hart has a bum wrist as well. Maybe we see some Toppin minutes. I would welcome that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 04, 2024, 04:08:45 PM
I am for keeping both draft picks and going for guys who plug in at one or both non-center front court positions.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on April 04, 2024, 08:27:38 PM
Falling apart in a hurry, expand the line-up please! Forget it lol.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on April 04, 2024, 08:29:48 PM
Brunson has to be top 3 MVP.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on April 04, 2024, 08:46:20 PM
TNT with the worse halftime. Mumbling assclowns. Mama wawa caca.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 04, 2024, 11:17:18 PM
You are as much a moron about basketball as you are about immigration, Luee.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on April 05, 2024, 04:29:58 AM
Quite the win,  from 21 down early to an 11 point romp snapping a 3 game losing streak.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 05, 2024, 01:30:45 PM
If he is done for the season how does it affect OGs next contract? If he plays and reinjures his elbow what effect does that have?

It seems likely we go as far as the Novacore mini-Knicks can take us this season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on April 06, 2024, 02:12:19 PM
Here's what I don't get about Mitchell Robinson.

The dude went thru months of physical therapy. For obvious reasons, his running, jumping and physical contact could only increase at a slow, deliberate pace.

Why....why......why didn't he use the period to work on his foul shooting?

It was the ONE element of his game that he could improve while he was out.

And it's worse than ever before.

I genuinely do not understand this.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 06, 2024, 02:48:01 PM
Nerves. Our boy Mitch is high strung. That said, you would hope there was enough, free throw, baby hook, push and set shot work to show dividends.

What happened to Precious since Mitch got back?

We have a lot to figure out and not a lot of time to do it in.

The Bucks have better Size and talent than we do. I am worried about us having enough to compete on Sunday.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 08, 2024, 01:42:51 AM
That was juicy. 4 games to go. Bulls twice, Celts and Nyets. I would like to see us finish strong.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 09, 2024, 01:17:53 PM
Bulls just whumped us last week. I worried about a repeat performance.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 09, 2024, 11:54:09 PM
JB is on a heater and OG is almost all the way back. I like our smart play and energy. 3 more regular season games to go.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on April 10, 2024, 12:19:04 AM
I now take it as a lucky sign anytime you're worried about the opponent.
Title: Re: Fac 👍
Post by: carlos123 on April 10, 2024, 02:07:46 AM
Quote from: elephant on April 10, 2024, 12:19:04 AM
I now take it as a lucky sign anytime you're worried about the opponent.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 10, 2024, 04:13:44 AM
I am worried about our next game against the Celtics. They have the best defensive backcourt in basketball and hardly ever lose games. Tatum and Brown are a menacing tandem. I do not see how we have enough to beat them.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on April 10, 2024, 07:09:29 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 10, 2024, 04:13:44 AM
I am worried about our next game against the Celtics. They have the best defensive backcourt in basketball and hardly ever lose games. Tatum and Brown are a menacing tandem. I do not see how we have enough to beat them.

Didn't they lose last night? 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 10, 2024, 12:02:43 PM
They were down KP and Horford. And that result will make them extra pissed off and motivated by the time they see us.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on April 11, 2024, 11:45:31 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 10, 2024, 04:13:44 AM
I am worried about our next game against the Celtics. They have the best defensive backcourt in basketball and hardly ever lose games. Tatum and Brown are a menacing tandem. I do not see how we have enough to beat them.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on April 11, 2024, 09:17:52 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 10, 2024, 12:02:43 PM
They were down KP and Horford. And that result will make them extra pissed off and motivated by the time they see us.

Any further predictions?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 11, 2024, 10:12:58 PM
Good thing the game was only 48 minutes. Great win despite the ugly close. Other than Donte the minutes were reasonable. We are finding a way to make things work at the best possible time. It is always nice to beat Boston in Boston.

The Nyets are pesky and rested and would love to upset our apple cart. I am worried we will not have the energy and focus to match them tomorrow.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 12, 2024, 12:17:27 AM
I would like to see Jalen take tomorrow night off.
Title: Fac is worried 👍
Post by: carlos123 on April 12, 2024, 02:15:25 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 11, 2024, 10:12:58 PM

The Nyets are pesky and rested and would love to upset our apple cart. I am worried we will not have the energy and focus to match them tomorrow.

By all means, keep it up, Fac!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 12, 2024, 10:08:16 PM
I told you those fuckers would be pesky. We dodged the bullet though which is good because Cleveland won. Fifth through seventh in the East is a total scrum. Glad we are clear of that at least.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 12, 2024, 10:58:06 PM
We clinched home court in the first round with a game left to play.

Spurs beat Denver. Gonna catch the replay on that one. Present vs future. I am a big fan of Sandro and Sissoko on the Spurs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 12, 2024, 11:07:18 PM
Can we now say the Rick Brunson is now a historically more impactful Knick than Stephon Marbury?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 13, 2024, 03:00:26 PM
I am going to the woods for a couple of days and might not have reception.

The Bulls can beat us. They have proved it recently.

I am worried we will let go of the rope in our finale and the Bulls will out hustle and out execute us on our home floor.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 14, 2024, 11:28:23 PM
Made it as close as we could but in the end we pushed a roller coaster season to 50 wins and a two seed. We evened our OT record and face either Miami or Philly off their elimination game result. We get to breathe while they work it out. I happy to face either of those teams at this point than facing the Magic. Gonna be a fun playoffs all around. Lets see how far we can rise on this occasion.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 16, 2024, 11:33:08 AM
It is weird not knowing who to be worried about. I was not prepared for the second seed in the East.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on April 16, 2024, 06:35:38 PM
All that's important is that once we find out who we play, you then assert that they're going to be an extremely difficult match for the Knicks who, unfortunately, will probably lose the series.

This is the only thing I'm counting on.

Do not let me down!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 16, 2024, 07:59:59 PM
I do not think it likely I will be overcome by a sudden rush of optimism tomorrow night.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on April 17, 2024, 03:39:52 AM
Excellent.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 18, 2024, 03:42:09 AM
One point. Now we have the toughest first round opponent in the East. Maxey and Embid will get the media focus, but Ubre, Batum and Harris provide imposing wing presence all game. And none of those guys really scare me. It is Lowry who really scares me. I think he is going to be the toughest Sixer to overcome.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 18, 2024, 01:21:04 PM
Paul Reed is saying the Sixers wanted us. He thinks we are an easier team and that they match up well against us.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on April 18, 2024, 11:49:46 PM
Brunson's message to New York:
https://www.theplayerstribune.com/posts/jalen-brunson-new-york-knicks-nba-basketball (https://www.theplayerstribune.com/posts/jalen-brunson-new-york-knicks-nba-basketball)

I mean, Jesus, what a season so far.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 20, 2024, 09:57:28 PM
Quote from: elephant on April 18, 2024, 11:49:46 PM
Brunson's message to New York:
https://www.theplayerstribune.com/posts/jalen-brunson-new-york-knicks-nba-basketball (https://www.theplayerstribune.com/posts/jalen-brunson-new-york-knicks-nba-basketball)

I mean, Jesus, what a season so far.

True. Very very true.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 20, 2024, 11:41:42 PM
The Sixers are very very very fucking scary to my view.
Title: Cough
Post by: chipstern on April 21, 2024, 06:26:51 AM
Knicks out rebound Philly 55-33.

Knicks don't develop young players.

Mitchell and Deuce both #36 picks.

Lowry and Maxey scary.

Hart, scarier.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 23, 2024, 12:45:15 AM
It is not easy to win these 5 on 8 games. Doing it in a hostile arena will be much tougher.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on April 23, 2024, 01:40:09 PM
What a finish, wow, I do believe the curse of Reggie Miller has finally been extirpated from the Garden.



**** Which is good, cause if Jalen keeps hogging his way to 25+ shots each game, we ain't winning ^&$^ at Wells Fargo center, pass the f'n ball
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 23, 2024, 02:14:18 PM
Maxey and Embiid will probably both be closer to the top of their games with the three day layoff.

Very Scary
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on April 24, 2024, 01:09:13 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 23, 2024, 02:14:18 PM
Maxey and Embiid will probably both be closer to the top of their games with the three day layoff.

Very Scary

Keep The Faith
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on April 24, 2024, 06:26:06 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 23, 2024, 02:14:18 PM
Maxey and Embiid will probably both be closer to the top of their games with the three day layoff.

Very Scary

You are playing your role brilliantly!

Carry on! There's no telling how far this road goes!

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on April 24, 2024, 06:27:19 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on April 23, 2024, 01:40:09 PM
What a finish, wow, I do believe the curse of Reggie Miller has finally been extirpated from the Garden.

You know....it does feel like that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 24, 2024, 08:26:43 PM
I am worried that some Philly role player who wilted in the Garden is going to go off.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 24, 2024, 11:18:02 PM
Quote from: elephant on April 24, 2024, 06:27:19 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on April 23, 2024, 01:40:09 PM
What a finish, wow, I do believe the curse of Reggie Miller has finally been extirpated from the Garden.

You know....it does feel like that.

Thumbs up to the both of you.

Half the series in the East are tied 1-1.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 26, 2024, 01:32:39 AM
Embiid shot more free throws than the Knicks. 5-8 is tougher on the road especially when the league thinks that they owe your opponent one.

Payne was the guy.

OG waking up and Precious making an appearance were good signs.

We may miss Mitch.

It would be really nice to tighten some seams, find some more flow and steal the next one.

I am worried that Philly will overcome our best efforts to win game 4 and send us home tied.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on April 29, 2024, 08:09:11 AM
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 26, 2024, 01:32:39 AM
Embiid shot more free throws than the Knicks. 5-8 is tougher on the road especially when the league thinks that they owe your opponent one.

Payne was the guy.

OG waking up and Precious making an appearance were good signs.

We may miss Mitch.

It would be really nice to tighten some seams, find some more flow and steal the next one.

I am worried that Philly will overcome our best efforts to win game 4 and send us home tied.

If only Mike Miller was our coach. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on April 30, 2024, 09:59:46 PM
Darkness.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on April 30, 2024, 11:51:30 PM
dumb ass hero ball from JB, that 60 point game worst thing that ever happened
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on May 02, 2024, 07:02:35 PM
Quote from: lesterluv on April 30, 2024, 11:51:30 PM
dumb ass hero ball from JB, that 60 point game worst thing that ever happened

He's learning, man.

In many ways, it's a new role. You can see him processing it all.

I got faith in the guy!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on May 03, 2024, 12:33:25 AM
Light.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: LarryB! on May 03, 2024, 09:55:36 AM
This squad does not do nuttin easy! But they won and advanced!

When the Knicks were up  22 my buddy started to fire up an Auerbach and I could have slapped the shit out of hm and sure enough.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on May 03, 2024, 10:56:39 AM
Great coaching job Knicks are good but maybe not great. Am I wrong in missing Julius? Some say the team is better without him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on May 04, 2024, 04:46:53 PM
Quote from: LarryB! on May 03, 2024, 09:55:36 AM
This squad does not do nuttin easy! But they won and advanced!

When the Knicks were up  22 my buddy started to fire up an Auerbach and I could have slapped the shit out of hm and sure enough.

So funny! In game 5, in the fourth I get a text from a friend saying "The Knicks are Back!" or some shit.

Immediately I felt the presence of a dark cloud....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on May 04, 2024, 04:48:26 PM
Before the 6th game, I wrote him with the sacred injunction:

No congrats until the final buzzer.

The final buzzer!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 06, 2024, 12:08:03 PM
Beautiful to have Philly behind us. Lowry can no longer rate as a nemesis. He is just another tough opponent who wins some and loses some.

I am worried that Indy will run us out the gym this series. Toppin unlocking him self against familiar foes could be the dagger that does us in.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 07, 2024, 12:45:36 AM
Obi has become a bona fide weapon.

The key to the game was turnovers and points of turnovers in that they made few that we went to town on while we were sloppier with the ball but limited the damage that caused on the other end.

I am worried Rick will whip something up to fix that.

I am worried that the Novacore will be pressed to manage 90 points a game this series though that is what it might take to win this series.

I am worried that the Pacers will come out more ready and prepared on Wednesday and take the game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on May 08, 2024, 10:41:14 PM
Keep your worries coming!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on May 08, 2024, 10:41:56 PM
These games are incredible.

I don't even know what to say about Brunson anymore.

Just spectacular.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on May 08, 2024, 10:47:10 PM
Carlisle pretty rigid.

BTW....Toppin and McConnell have been playing great....

....but they're reserves, so you gotta take them out at crunch time?

Not complaining!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterluv on May 09, 2024, 11:16:54 AM
Quote from: elephant on May 08, 2024, 10:41:56 PM
These games are incredible.

I don't even know what to say about Brunson anymore.

Just spectacular.

What a year, what a run, wherever it ends
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 09, 2024, 03:58:45 PM
I am worried we are going to have a very hard time winning two of the next five with the guys we have available to play.

History says that role players have higher production at home than they do on the road in playoff series. I find that very worrying. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on May 09, 2024, 09:06:10 PM
Quote from: facilitatorn on May 09, 2024, 03:58:45 PM
I am worried we are going to have a very hard time winning two of the next five with the guys we have available to play.

History says that role players have higher production at home than they do on the road in playoff series. I find that very worrying.

Excellent! You're so right!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 09, 2024, 09:43:30 PM
Day by day the consternation deepens.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 11, 2024, 01:15:55 AM
I feel like even depleted we have enough to take a game in Indy. I am worried we will not get our shit together sufficiently to pull it off.

Brunson needs to find his Paxton and Kerr of the triple team in closing moments. If he gets it back the he can put up the dagger himself. Live and learn.